Podcasts about London Transport Museum

Harry Hill's 'Are We There Yet?'

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 30, 2024 52:45

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 13th November 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.cambridgesciencecentre.org/Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube| LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-porter-8a0b85121/Becca is a seasoned development and business strategist with over five years in the leadership team at Cambridge Science Centre (CSC). She has played a pivotal role in driving CSC's strategic growth, securing transformative results, including a 50% increase in income and establishing key partnerships that help sustain CSC's mission.Her expertise in fundraising, stakeholder engagement, and business development has been integral to CSC's evolution. Representing CSC at external events, Becca engages with stakeholders across academia, industry, and government, fostering impactful relationships that strengthen the organisation's community presence and reach.Before joining CSC, Becca held the position of Licensing Manager at the RSPB, where she led efforts to negotiate intellectual property rights for product-based partnerships. Her strategies resulted in an increase in profit, underscoring her strong commercial acumen and collaborative approach.With a professional background enhanced by six years of international experience with Carnival Corporation in Miami, Florida, Becca brings a global perspective to her work. Her ability to connect and communicate across diverse sectors reflects her adaptability and understanding of complex business landscapes.Becca's approach is marked by her commitment to expanding CSC's impact and access to science engagement, helping inspire the next generation of learners. Her ongoing efforts to cultivate partnerships and innovate within her field underscore her dedication to making science accessible and engaging for all. https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-g-farrer-ph-d-25a18976/Andrew Farrer is the Head of Programmes and Delivery at Cambridge Science Centre. A biological anthropologist by background, he started at the Centre as a Science Communicator travelling around communities and schools on the Roadshow programme. In his current position, he makes sure the team has what they need to deliver the very best in science communication. His PhD used ancient DNA to understand how the human microbiota (the bacterial community living on and in the human body – and keeping us alive!) changed in Britain over the last 1,000 years. Alongside this, he used his passion for science and interest in theatre to develop a science communication programme to bring together the interdisciplinary academics at the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA – an effort that resulted in new international collaborations. He has just got back from a cycling tour in the country of Georgia, where he evaded angry guard dogs, navigated roads that were active building sites, and managed to avoid falling off until the last day! The trip was amazing though! https://www.linkedin.com/in/mandy-curtis-688a33111/Mandy Curtis is the Head of Exhibitions at Cambridge Science Centre. She has been with the Cambridge Science Centre since its opening in 2013, beginning as a Science Communicator, then progressing through the Education team and into Product Development. In her current role as Head of Exhibitions, Mandy oversees everything that is in and delivered at the Centre. She is also responsible for the Centre's overall look, building maintenance, and alarm systems, as well as keeping the shop stocked with STEM-related items.Previously, Mandy worked in the pharmaceutical industry and as a school lab technician, where she also ran a STEM club. She was actively involved in Scouting in her village for over 15 years, remaining on the Executive Committee after her own children left and leading sessions for science-related badges, along with serving as the camp cook.Mandy enjoys walks along the beach in Norfolk with her very large dog, visiting as often as she can. She also loves having her children and their partners back home, especially since they return to their own homes afterward! Transcription: Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Paul Marden. In July this year, Cambridge Science Centre opened its new building, returning to the real world after having been a science centre without a building for several years. In today's episode, I'm joined by some of their team. Andrew Farrer, Head of Programmes and Delivery, Rebecca Porter, Head of Development, and Mandy Curtis, the Head of Exhibitions. And we'll talk about the trials and tribulations of opening a new building from scratch and the benefits now the site has opened. Paul Marden: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Skip the Queue. Becca, Andrew, Mandy, lovely to see you. Really good to talk to you about the experience that you've had recently at Cambridge Science Centre, returning to the real world and having your own physical building for the Science Centre. Paul Marden: For listeners, I've had a little part to play because Rubber Cheese worked with CSC on the journey building websites. So I know a little bit about what's going on, but there's a whole load of stuff. I'm sure there's loads of anecdotes and stories that you're going to be able to tell us all about the trials and tribulations of building a brand new science centre from scratch. Before we get to that, it would be really nice if we did our icebreaker question. So I'm going to do one for each of you. Okay. So it doesn't matter which order I go in because you're not going to get any benefit from knowing what the question was. All right, so I'm going to start with you, Becca, because you're first. First on my. On my list. Okay. Paul Marden: What one thing would you make a law that isn't one already? Rebecca Porter: Oh, that is very interesting. I'm not sure. the rest of those. Andrew Farrer: The rest of us are feeling a bit nervous at this stage. Yeah, Becca's law is Andrew is no longer allowed in any meeting. Rebecca Porter: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. I'll go with that. Paul Marden: That's very specific. I think when I come to power, not if I come to power, I don't think I dive that spec. I might go more broad. It might be about abolishing foods that I cannot abide eating or something like that. Not particularly. Take one of my team out of a meeting. Seems a little bit wasteful. Andrew Farrer: You don't know what I'm like in meetings. Paul Marden: Andrew, what is the biggest mistake you've made in your life? Andrew Farrer: Working with Becca, obviously. No, no. I just digest. Biggest mistake I've made in my life. There's a lot of things in the moment are very stressful and you think, oh, my. What? Why am I here? Why did I do this? Why did I not think more or think less or whatever? But everything that was probably, this is a massive mistake in the moment just turned out to be a really good story in hindsight. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Andrew Farrer: No, I'm happy with all of them. Paul Marden: There's some things that you think, oh, gosh, I really wish I could have deleted that from my memory completely. I spent a year doing a PhD and then dropped out because I realised that I didn't like working in a box on my own. But I don't think I would actually go back and not spend that year doing what I was doing, because it took quite a lot to realise that I don't like sitting in a box on my own and I actually like having other people around me. Yeah. At the time, it didn't, sitting on the bench at Egham Station, deciding, what am I doing with my life? It didn't feel like that was such a great decision that I'd made. Andrew Farrer: No, but they're all part of the sort of fabric that makes up the next decision, aren't they? Paul Marden: So, yeah, the rich tapestry. Andrew Farrer: That's it. That's the rich tapestry of life. Paul Marden: And, Mandy, I'm going to go for one last one, actually. It's not too dissimilar to what were just talking about. What was your dream job when you were growing up? Mandy Curtis: Before I answer that, I just have to give you my answer to Becca's question, because it's something I discussed at a previous job. If I could make one law, it would be that there was only one type of black sock. Rebecca Porter: That's actually a brilliant answer. Paul Marden: Again, hyper specific. Mandy Curtis: No. Trying to pair up all those black socks and none of them are quite the same. That is so annoying. So, yeah, that would be my law. Paul Marden: I don't think I need. I think I could broaden it and just say, there is only one type of sock, because my daughter's sock drawer is not black. There's not a single black sock in there. Mandy Curtis: I couldn't do that to Andrew. Andrew Farrer: You leave my socks out of it. Mandy Curtis: My actual question, when I was small, I had, in my mind, I wanted to be a scientist. Throughout all the jobs I've ever had, that's pretty much what I've been. And the job I had before this, I worked as a school lab technician and my boss came to me one day and said, “I've just got an email from Cambridge Science Centre. Looking for science communicators. I think you'd be really good at it. Why don't you apply? And I did.” And that was when it was, yeah, this is what I should always have done. Paul Marden: So interesting, isn't it? That's not a natural leap, is it, from a lab technician in a school to being a science communicator. But there's so much about teaching which is just telling the story and engaging people and making them want to do stuff, isn't it? Mandy Curtis: Yeah. It's surprising that there are a lot of parallels. Yeah. The thinking on your feet being one of the biggest ones. Rebecca Porter: I actually used to want to be a marine biologist when I was younger, and then I realised growing up that I'm nowhere near the sea where I am now, so that was slightly problematic. And also I saw the movie Jaws for the first time as a child and it terrified me and I quickly changed my mind about that. Paul Marden: Okay, let's segue from Mandy in your science communicator role, because I think it's a good segue. Let's talk a little bit about the journey that you've been on at Cambridge Science Centre over the last few years. Andrew, I'm going to start talking to you, mate, because I remember vividly last year I was at the association of Science and Discovery Centres conference and you were on stage with the guys from We The Curious, and you were talking about what it was to be a science centre without a building. Yeah. And the work that you guys were doing in the community for the listeners that weren't at the conference. Let's just take a step back and talk about the background of Cambridge Science Centre. You had a physical building, didn't you? Paul Marden: And you moved out of there and you spent a period of time being remote, virtual. I don't know what the quite the right term is, but you spent a while on the road. What prompted that to leave the previous centre? Andrew Farrer: Yeah. So that question that was being asked in the conference that what is a science centre without the building? It's really something that's very much in the fabric, the DNA of Cambridge Science Centre. The organisation is 11 years old now and through that time being an organisation that has a science centre and also being an organisation that does the outreach, which is what we would call like going out into the community and into schools and being in the spaces of the people that you're most wanting to engage, both of those things have existed in parallel and that there are strengths to both having a physical centre and being able to do that kind of Outreach and Cambridge Science Centre from the very beginning that brought those two things together and maximised the benefits of both in service of the other, really. Andrew Farrer: So what if you had all of the assets of a full science centre, but you could take them out on the road? What if you have the flexibility of kits that could be taken out the road, that you could do them in a space that you control? So that has always been part of things. We've had, you know. The new Science Centre that has just opened is the third permanent location that the organisation has had in its lifetime. And the decision to leave the previous one was something that was taken by the whole team. We got everyone around the table. This was post COVID. We were still coming out of having been truly remote. We're all about being hands on with science, which is very difficult in the world where you're not allowed touch anything or stand close to anyone, you know. Andrew Farrer: So we had to do a lot of stuff to respond to that. And then we came out of that situation, world came out of that situation and were sort of reconsidering what we wanted to do and how we wanted to do it. And the Science Centre we had up until that point, until 2022, you know, had been a fabulous space. We've done some amazing stuff in it. We were very closed of what we've done there. But were just finding with the goals we had, with what we wanted to move on to, it was no longer a space that could fit that set of targets. So the question, what was Science Centre without a building? Wasn't that question stepping up because we decided to lose the building? Andrew Farrer: It was kind of, it became a bit more of a focus, but really about the fixed space. Taking a step back for a moment while we really thought about what we wanted. And then we got the amazing opportunity that I'm sure we'll be talking about in a sec with the Science park and Trinity College, which brought that having a fixed space back up on par with the Science Centre without a building. And those two are still. They've always been, they were and they are continuing to be in parallel. And we're just about ready to open up one of our new pop up sign centres. That would be a space out in New England which is going to run there for the future as well, which will run in parallel to this fixed space. Andrew Farrer: So it's not a new question for us, it will never be an old question for us. It is what Cambridge Science Homeset is brilliant. Paul Marden: And during that period where you were without a fixed home, what really worked well for you, what was effective about that outreach programme and that was a became the sole focus for a period of time?Andrew Farrer: I mean were building on what was what we've been learning and what had been working well for that point I guess the last nine years. Yeah. So we knew that our exhibits, our hands on exhibits where you can, you don't just see a phenomenon, you can experience that moment, you've been affected, they're all possible. And so we could take them out. And we'd done that before with setting up sort of science engagement zones in banks and leisure centres. The corner of ASDA one time I think and we evolved that during just after Covid into these pop up science into these fully fledged kind of spaces that were on sort of par with the fixed space. Andrew Farrer: And we really lent into that, created these full, effectively full science centres with those exhibits, with the shows, with the activities, with the science communicators who could have the conversations with people and engage with the kids and answer questions and have a bit of fun and have a laugh, all that kind of stuff. In spaces that were underused in the community. We could take over empty shop units. We were in balance of rural museums. We've been all over the place and we are in those communities. We become part of the communities in the spaces. They already know it. Yeah. And that sort of eases that sort of barrier. Oh, I've got to go to the science place. Because suddenly the place part of that is their place. Yeah. And we're all about making the science. Andrew Farrer: It's as open and fun as possible and building up with whatever level anyone walks in with. So that was, it really was really kind of having the opportunity to hone that ability to create the proper full science centre spaces. And in getting that honed that raised our level on well, what is the fixed science centre? If you can have a fixed thing, what can you do bigger and better there? Which in Eintrum Nadia will want to speak to later. Because some of the new exhibits are phenomenal and they come out of the learning we've had from being on the road and being able to engage people in their spaces and give them a reason now to come to this space. Paul Marden: I'm guessing that when you go out into their space rather than making them come to you get to meet and see very different people. You know, the barrier that exists in somebody having to come to your building means there's a lot of people, there's a lot of young people, there's A lot of families for whom a great day out is not automatically thought of, you know, when they're thinking about what they're going to do at the weekend, they might not necessarily think of a science centre because it's just not what they consider to be fun. But if you go out to them, into their spaces where they are familiar, in the corner of Asda, in the Rural Museum or whatever, you're. You're getting closer to the people that don't normally walk into a science centre. Andrew Farrer: Absolutely, yeah. It's all about. Every single person has some form of barrier that they have to deal with. And, you know, many people have many more barriers than others. No matter what we do, there are still barriers to overcome, but it's about dropping those as low as you can and thinking about getting people across them and supporting them and getting them across them. So, I mean, absolutely, if you say if you're in their space, you remove the whole suite of barriers that exist into travelling to a fixed science centre, which is something we're thinking about and trying to then reduce those. For the fixed science centre. There are other barriers that apply. Andrew Farrer: Even though you're in their space and you've still got to do a lot of thinking and a lot of work to make sure it's an inviting space that they feel they're able to come into, that they can then get comfortable in, and then they can start asking questions and playing with things and break that kind of, oh, it's not for me bubble. Because it definitely is for everyone. You want each other play. Paul Marden: Yeah. Even so, making it an inviting space and making them want to take that step over the threshold into wherever the space is that you are. I've watched kids I'm thinking of a year ago, I was at the London Transport Museum and they had a big exhibition all around sustainability in their exhibition space, which is, I don't know, ⅓ or 3/4 of the way around the museum. And you could just see these kids just stood at the edge watching because they didn't feel confident that they could step into the space and immerse themselves into what was happening in that space. And you've just got to. You've got to make it easy for them to take that step over the threshold, haven't you? Andrew Farrer: Absolutely, yeah. And it's the reason that we have so many different ways of engaging, that the exhibits are there with the activities are there, that the shows are there, that the communicators are there, because people will do that in different ways. What they're comfortable starting to approach, you know, is different from the depth you can give them later. And people will do it in very different ways. But one of the early pop up science centres we had a day where we had, we partnered with a group from the University of Cambridge called Chaos with a student science engagement team. Paul Marden: Right. Andrew Farrer: And their name is apt, but they're brilliant. They're brilliant. And they were all around the earth and all of these different activities and it was really interesting because we noted that, you know, almost to a Percy, everyone walked in, every kid, every adult and they went straight to our exhibits. Not because Chaos wasn't inviting, not because they didn't have cool things, not because they were pushing people away in any way. But it was exactly as you say it was that moment to be like, I don't know, this space, here's a thing that's non threatening, it's not going to ask me a question. But the Chaos were asking kind of questions that were going to, you know, they were going to get at someone for. But you don't know that when you're first walking. Andrew Farrer: No, you play with the exhibit, you start to, you know, that's the safe thing, you start to see what it's doing and then you receive. People build up the confidence, exactly as you say, and then they kind of wander over and suddenly they were just doing laps of the space were in. Just like repeat visiting every one of these activities. Brilliant. You know, and that's a mini version of the journey we want to take people on across their lives. Paul Marden: Yeah. Okay, so question for all three of you then. What was the motivation then really behind returning to a fixed building? Was it an aspiration that you always had, that you wanted to return to a fixed centre or what was the driver for that? Rebecca Porter: We've absolutely always had an aspiration to have a fixed venue in Cambridge. Obviously the clue is in the name Cambridge Science Centre. And we knew that we needed that nucleus, that hub that we could operate all of our other engagements from. And certainly from a supporting organisation perspective, it's very useful for us when we're having those conversations with external stakeholders about the opportunities to get involved with a physical space as well as our outreach programme. So certainly from that point of view, we had an objective to find one. Interestingly, we'd done a piece of work with a group, there's a network in the city called Cambridge Ahead and as part of Cambridge Ahead they have a young advisory committee and we'd done a scoping exercise with the young advisory committee Thinking about that positioning, where we wanted to be. Rebecca Porter: And the key takeaway from their research was that we needed a sort of peripheral location, so an edge of city location that was accessible, that could work for, work well for schools, but would also still allow us to have that public engagement. And for us as an organisation, we really wanted to deepen our relationship with some of the communities that were existing a bit on the margins of the city, particularly those in the north that do suffer from varying levels of deprivation. And Cambridge is a very interesting place because despite the fact that it's got this really illustrious heritage and it's seen as being very affluent, actually it's the most unequal city in the uk, or certainly in England. Paul Marden: Oh, is it really? Rebecca Porter: Yeah. And so we wanted to be able to have our physical space closer to those communities that need more access, need more support, more guidance, so that we could bridge a gap between them and between the Cambridge Science park, which is our new home, but not just the science park, the wider ecosystem and the other research and innovation parks. So, yes, absolutely. We always had an objective to get another physical space operating. Paul Marden: Lovely. So, Becca, I'm guessing this doesn't all come for free and that somebody's got to fund the work to get the centre together. And that's your job really, isn't it, to find people to help you do that, say, how'd you go about doing that? Rebecca Porter: So absolutely everything that we do is completely reliant on the support of like minded organisations and individuals. So we go about in lots of different ways. We have a wonderful board of trustees who are very engaged with the work that we do and they help to make introductions to us in their networks. But it really is a case of going out and doing a lot of footwork, understanding what organisations are operating in our space and what their objectives are in terms of community engagement and how do we align with that. So there's a lot of research that goes on in the background to figure out who we should be talking to. Rebecca Porter: It's wonderful being in a city like Cambridge because 9 times out of 10, most of the companies we talk to do have some objective to do something around STEM engagement in particular. And they're also very supportive of our own objective, which is to widen participation and increase diversity. So they understand that the work that we're doing with those children from the most underserved communities is absolutely vital. So that makes it quite an easy story, quite a compelling story to tell. But we are, we're hugely lucky to have the supporters that we do. And I think key supporters for us are obviously the Cambridge Science park team who enabled the transition into our new venue. Because it was, it all seemed to just line up perfectly really that our own internal discussions around where we wanted to position ourselves. Rebecca Porter: We knew we wanted to deepen our own relationships with these various communities. We knew we needed some kind of peripheral centre space. Unbeknownst to us at the time, but happening in parallel, the Science park team were also considering their relationship with their neighbouring communities and how they can enhance that and do more. Because the Science park is actually, it's a very porous space. So not all of the research and innovation parks are quite the same. But Cambridge Science park absolutely wants to be open to its local communities. It wants them to come in, spend time in the green spaces there and understanding a bit about the different companies that are working within the park. And the Science park as well as the main land owner, which is Trinity College University of Cambridge, again are very keen to support STEM engagement where they can. Rebecca Porter: So it felt like they, our objectives at the time as well as the Science Park's objectives just meshed together beautifully and that resulted in us having this transformational opportunity to be inside the heart of the Science park and alongside that in wider discussions with some of the stakeholders of the park. Specifically were introduced to some of the property development companies that are operating in there who again were very supportive of what we're trying to achieve, but also had the vision to understand that not only are we supporting the local communities, but we're offering a conduit for supporting their tenants. So how can we help them to realise their tenants ambitions? And so they've been very supportive as well. Rebecca Porter: And we're also incredibly lucky to have a suite of organisations that we refer to as our Executive Council, who are our corporate partners that are the lifeblood of our organisation. Their funding and their support underpins everything that we do. So I want to just recognise our Executive Council members in particular, but also the key stakeholders for us with the new centre are the Science Park, Trinity College, Brockton Everlast, an organisation called LifeArc and ARM the microprocessing chip company. So yes, they're all major stakeholders and we're very lucky to have them. Paul Marden: That's amazing. So the Executive Council, that's quite interesting. What do they have some influence over the work that you do and the direction that you take? It's more than just them handing over sponsorship money, it's actually an engagement in what you do. Rebecca Porter: Absolutely. Nothing that we do is transactional, so we don't ever take anyone's money and run. We always try to offer reciprocal programme opportunities, staff engagement opportunities, and with our executive council members, they really do help shape and influence the trajectory of the organisation. So we have regular meetings with them, we talk to them about what our plans are, where they think there may be opportunities that we aren't perhaps looking at, that we could be exploring or should be exploring. And they certainly do have that. That level of influence over the direction of the organisation in general. Paul Marden: And then I suppose the choice of the location is partly driven by those relationships that you built with Trinity College and the Science park. And I guess it was collaborative, the choice of the location itself. Yeah, you didn't go looking for a building with some shortlist. There was. You built a partnership with these people and together you found the space that worked for all of you. Rebecca Porter: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, the space that we're currently occupying is a pre existing building, so it's called the Trinity Centre and it actually was a conferencing space with a catering facility on site as well as the park barbers, interestingly. And so through the relationship with Trinity College and through the discussions with the team in the park, we recognise that actually the space could be working a bit harder, not just for the science park, but for the wider community. And so we essentially repurposed one half of the ground floor of that existing building and Mandy's done a fabulous job turning that space into what is now our new Science Centre. So, yes, I mean, personally, I think having been in that space a lot, if you didn't know it was a conference centre before we took it over, I don't think you'd ever guess that. Rebecca Porter: So, yeah, it's been really wonderful. Paul Marden: You just cued me up perfectly to turn to Mandy. How do you go about filling a space with all the amazing exhibits to make it from a conference venue into this exciting and inviting science centre? How did you even go about doing that? Did somebody give you a blank sheet of paper and tell you off you go, just do whatever you like? Mandy Curtis: Well, pretty much it was a blank slate to work with. But then of course, we've got all our experience from the years leading up to this. So we've got a suite of exhibits that we know work and we know which ones we wanted to take forward, which ones we wanted to build on and expand on. So although in some ways it was a blank slate, it was very much a guided blank slate. So it's still a. For a Science centre. It's still a relatively small space, so we made the decision early on that we wouldn't have themed areas. So we're not big enough to have a space corner and a biology corner. So we've gone for an experiential centre. So you come in for the experience, you come in for one of the most. The thing for me is intergenerational play and learning. Mandy Curtis: So families coming in together, there's something for everyone. So that led the thinking and the decision making with exhibits and I reached out to lots of different people, existing standing exhibit makers, and some people have never made anything like this before. So we've got a real mix here. But what was important was that it's not somewhere where you walk, where the kids walk in, press a button and walk away. It was about prolonged active engagement. So each exhibit has layers of interaction. So you can come in, do one thing, come back another time and do something different or within the same visit, you can build on what you're doing. So, yeah, it's very much about the experience. Paul Marden: So is there an aspiration for the kids and the families to revisit to you? Do you want to create this space where they want to return several times over the space of a year or even as they grow up? You're supporting them through different things that interest them? Mandy Curtis: Absolutely. That's. That's very much what it's about. We have a membership where you want to create the feeling of belonging, of being. This is a place to come with annual membership, you can come as many times as you like. Lots of the exhibits will be the same, but because of the way we've made them and we've prepared them, there's always something different to do with them. And also we have a programme of shows and lab activities that constantly change, so there's always something different and new to do in the space. Paul Marden: Have you got particular audiences in mind that you want to appeal, make the space appealing to? Mandy Curtis: Yeah, we have a very specific audience and I call that everybody. That everything here can be reached by anybody. That's. Yeah, I don't exclude or include anybody. That's why. That's part of the layering. So younger kids, less able kids, older people, there's something here for everyone. I mean, obviously we have an age range for children that is most suitable, but there are also things for younger kids. There's. I mean, quite often we get families coming in and the adults are saying, well, this is way too good for just kids. And that's exactly how I feel about it as well. It's. It's a family place, it's for pretty much any age group, any. Any abilities. Yeah. Paul Marden: So how do you make that. If you're appealing to everyone, how do you make it more inclusive to kids with challenges? Kids with send difficulties, for example? How do you provide something that can enrich everybody's understanding of science? Mandy Curtis: It's really about having some familiar things here in two different ways. So there's familiarity in that. We've got some of our classic exhibits on site, so if people have ever been to one of our previous sites, there'll be things that they recognise from there, but also bringing in things from the outside world, from their world at home. So one of the exhibits is a paper plane launcher. I mean, who hasn't made a paper plane? So it's stuff that they're familiar with, but come here and do it and it just brings out a whole new level. So we talk about ways you can build a better paper plane, ways you can adjust your paper plane, and then, of course, just putting it through the launcher is just incredible fun. So it's taking stuff that people know about and can relate to and that's really important. Mandy Curtis: So some of the, some concepts that we want to get across are potentially outside of people's experiences completely. But if we can present it in a way that starts at level that they're familiar with, they can relate to and engage with, then there's a progression through and we're able to get concepts across that you might, if you went straight in at the top level, you just, it just wouldn't engage them in the same way. Rebecca Porter: To add to that, I just wanted to say that our magic pixie dust, if you will, that brings everything to life, really are our team of science communicators. So that also, you know, that's what, you know, brings every experience in the Science Centre to life is our wonderful team. Paul Marden: Yeah, I mean, that's this, that. That's like every good attraction, isn't it? It's never about the physical space, it's about the feelings that you get and it's the people that are there that help you build that feeling, isn't it? That's why it's a magical place that makes people want to come back, isn't it? How do you also serve that very local community? Have you found that by locating yourselves on the science park, where you are close to those areas of multiple deprivation within the city? Have you found that just mere locality is enough to encourage people in or are you actively doing things to bring that local audience to you? Rebecca Porter: Absolutely both. So we're already doing a lot with one particular community. There's a part of the city called King's Hedges and we see a group of children there once a week for an after school club and have just started transitioning that club from their own space. We've been operating it in their community centre but now they are coming to us, which is fabulous. And one thing that I've really loved since we've opened the new venue is our proximity to those particular communities. An example of how much more accessible we are is that we did a soft launch before we did our major public opening in the summer with some local schools, one of which was King's Hedges Primary School, and the teachers were able to just walk the children to us and that's never been possible before. Rebecca Porter: And we've got much bigger plans to expand the community focused piece to other parts of the city because we would really love to have at least four days a week where we're running an after school club of some description for groups around the city that face additional barriers. So, yeah, we are all over that. Paul Marden: That's amazing. It sounds so exciting. I run a coding club for kids at my daughter's school. A lot of it is about the engagement that the kids have. They don't get that enrichment outside in those STEM technology. So for you guys to be reaching out to that local community and offering that after school provision for them to be engaged in science, then there's a group of kids that just must lap that up. They must love it. Rebecca Porter: Absolutely. And I think Andrew's always said that for us, we obviously there's lots of extracurricular clubs. You've got drama clubs and dance clubs and acting clubs, but very rarely do you come across anything science focused. And what we would love to see moving forward is that's normalised that actually you can go to an after school club, that it's all about science and it's just part of the everyday offering that's available to children, particularly those local to us. Paul Marden: And have you found, I mean, it's probably too early to tell, but have you found that it's beginning to blur the lines of the science park into the community? Because there's something about Cambridge, isn't there? And the whole he's a world leading hub of science and driving science forward and making science commercially valuable happens at that point where the university meets the rest of the community around it. Are you seeing that you bringing the kids into the space is beginning to open their eyes to what is possible for them on their own doorstep. In terms of science. Andrew Farrer: Yeah, I think we are seeing the first steps of that, you know, in your previous questions and what Mandy and Becca have said, I think they've, you know, referenced and alluded to the layers. We're talking about the new centre as if, you know, it's open and therefore it's done. It's not done, we're not done, you know, and yes, getting those exhibits in there and all of the work that Mandy put into making them so generalist enough in the sense that, you know, these age ranges, these ability ranges, these, you know, whatever range you want to talk about can access them. But then it is, what's the programming? We only really launched, the soft launch was end of June. The big launch was, you know, end of July. Really. Andrew Farrer: That only covers 2 of the audiences that we're on, which is the schools and the sort of public inverted commas. There's the everyone this half term we've started that work with the North Cambridge Community Partnership Club that has been moved in that Becca was talking about. But that is very much step one next year is all about filling those four afternoon slots with such a variety that work in such a different way. It's about bringing in the schools throughout the days, throughout the week. It's about flexing those weekends. As Mandy said, it's about finding what all of these different organises, local and more further afield want, need, what their questions are, things like that. Andrew Farrer: We're here to respond so we can create sessions that the generalist concept of the centre might support those in the send community, but we can create a session where it's okay. This will be the quieter session. This will be where we'll have timings on the exhibits that allow will change the lighting. And we're still sort of exploring and thinking about how we do that. Right. So that the experiences is just as good, just as strong, just as inspiring and isn't affected by the fact that something might have been slightly altered. And there's a flip side to that. There are people who are much better at engaging when there's a lot going on. It's almost like there's a hyper sensitivity. There's things to think about on that side as well. Andrew Farrer: So this is a project that 2025 will see a lot of work on, but really is a never ending process. As long as there are people and as long as there are individuals which can help deliverance, then we are there to make sure. That everyone gets the access and that means using all of the physical kit, we've got all of these physical spaces and our team to respond as, you know, as much as we can. So. Paul Marden: So is there much for you? Did your team of science communicators have to do much to get themselves ready to return to the physical space? Or did they walk in the door and it just felt like home straight away? And they were delivering what they've been delivering for 11 good years? Andrew Farrer: Yeah, there was an element of coming home and there's an element of this is what we do. Because as I said, the outreach and the permeable space are singing in harmony, as it were. But this new space does have. It's new and it's bigger and better and more accessible than anything we've been able to do for. And that has brought things that we haven't experienced before. So we, you know, we made ourselves as kind of theoretically ready as we could. There have been challenges both from a practical running an event venue to how do we. How do we do silent science communication when we are constantly learning? We've changed things already, you know, we're flexing and responding and they affect the things that we wanted to bring in the future that I was referencing before they change each plan. Andrew Farrer: And we have a lovely timeline, it's very exciting, very big map, lots of post its that shows where we want things to start happening, but each of those responds to that. So there's no one single ready. And again, even when you are as close to ready as might exist, just like the programmes that we offer, that readiness evolves as well. You keep learning. Paul Marden: Of course. So what were those challenges then? What can we share with listeners? What were some of the things that if you had another swing at it, you'd do differently through this process that you've gone through this transition? Andrew Farrer: That links back to your, what was your biggest mistake? We only knew we learned because we tried something that didn't in theory worked, you know. Yeah, I mean, there's just some sort of like general practical thinking. You implement a system and then only when it's actually put through its paces you realise, oh, hang on, there's this like scenario tangent that we haven't thought about. There's, you know, there's a few things on that front about practically running the. Running the space. As Becca said, that the science park is porous, but we are one of the big things that is now bringing the public in. So there's, you know, murmuring is in that as well because that porosity has been used in the way it hasn't been previously. And we've been thinking about when are people coming during the day, when are they. Andrew Farrer: Their repeat visits happening? Which means when do we cycle the lab activities in the show? Talking about, you know, we can do a different show every day but you know, that's probably overkill because people aren't going to come quite every day. But actually what cycle are they coming on so that we can make sure that we, you know, we're providing sort of an awe inspiring moment and a set of curiosity experiences on a wide variety of different topics so that we can find that thing that sparks everyone. Mandy Curtis: Just to add to what Andrew said, I think it would be hard to label anything we've done as a mistake because we wouldn't be where we are now if we hadn't gone through the process we did. So even stuff, very few things that didn't quite work out well, we've learned from and we've moved on and we've built on. So everything has, I feel everything we've done and has been a positive experience. It's all been, you know, it's all been good. Paul Marden: It's a very philosophical approach to it, isn't it? The idea that it's never done, the project isn't over, it just continually, you know, it needs continual tweaking and continual improvement. Andrew Farrer: It's a scientific approach, if anything.Mandy Curtis: Much as I promised I would be laying down in a dark room by now, I'm not and I won't be. And we're still, you know, there's, we're planning, we're moving forward and looking to next year at the programmes and what we can offer. So yeah, there's always something more to do. Paul Marden: Once again, you're queuing me up for my next question, which was really what do the goals look like for the future? You've done this massive project, returning to a physical space and getting it ready and opening it up and welcoming people in. Where do you go now? What are the aspirations for the next couple of years? Mandy Curtis: It's more of the same, better, more different, looking at different approaches at different audiences. We're going to be. I'm already planning and writing the STEM Tots programme for next year. So that's the younger kids, the preschoolers, so there's new audiences all the time to move into. There's school holidays, you know, kids have been over here over the summer for the next school holiday, they're going to want something different. So we're thinking about that, how we can encourage people to come back, what we can offer, what different things, different collaborations. However many companies on the science park. I don't know, Becca probably does. There's people we haven't even spoken to yet. So there's just opportunities everywhere still. Rebecca Porter: For us, I would say that we are, it's definitely a programmes expansion piece next year. So we need to really solidify what we've got now with our new venue and start building out those different audiences and what the different programmes for each audience will look like. And then it's also making sure that our Popup science centre in Wisbeach continues to go from strength to strength. And so certainly, although we've got this fabulous new venue, we don't lose focus on the outreach work that we're doing as well as building up, building momentum around our support. And Andrew's doing a really wonderful job putting some work into our logic model and our theory of change. And so again it's mapping that out and then how we can link that to, to our, to the work that we're doing. Rebecca Porter: The supporting organisations, what role can they play in pushing forward our logic model? In particular, we talk a lot about emotions, skills and actions as being what underpins our logic model and it's how can our different partners lean into those things? Are there organisations that want to support the emotions piece? Can we do a skills focused programme with another organisation? So there's still lots of mapping to be done, but hugely exciting stuff. Andrew Farrer: Opening the doors to the centre was really only the beginning. Now it's making the absolute amount, squeezing every bit of juice out of this amazing fruit that we've been lucky enough to be supported to build for ourselves. Paul Marden: Stretching your analogy just a little bit there, but it's a very good point. Andrew Farrer: What analogy if you can't stretch it to its unfathomable limits? Paul Marden: Andrew, one last question because I think a couple of you have mentioned the Popup Science Centre. Tell me a little bit about what is that and what's the plan for the future? Andrew Farrer: Yeah, so our Popup science centres are fully fledged science centres. They appear in community spaces. So the ones that I mentioned earlier and they feature our hands on exhibits, they feature our shows, they feature our activities and we are in November moving into a empty well, it's currently empty, but we're about to fill it chalk unit right in the heart of Wisbeach in the Fenland area. So the Fenland region which is on the north of Cambridge, one of these areas that if transport around the area is difficult, sort of deprivation in that area. But there are some great pieces of science, technology, engineering and maths, you know, organisations working in those areas as well. Andrew Farrer: But it's one of those places where for all of the efforts we put into breaking down the barriers to come into the fixed space, that's one of the areas that we're really struggling. So we're going to that there'll be a fully fledged science centre which will be open to schools and the public on those points through the year to go in, to explore, to have these workshops, to have these shows, to engage, to chat. We are kind of, this is coming off the back of, one of these 18 months long project where we've had these pop up science centres sort of around Fenland. This is kind of where we're settling in and really sort of digging our heels in a little bit. So sort of phase two will start to become much more co development with the community. Andrew Farrer: We've been able to spend 18 months getting to know the people of this area and then importantly getting to know us. It's now exactly back to what I was talking about earlier. It's been sort of equivalent of the kids walking in and seeing the exhibits and having a play. Now we're ready, both of us and them to have this conversation about well what should a time centre be for you specifically? And honestly we don't know what that will be. But next summer Cambridge Centre and Wis beach will become this whole new thing where there might be forensic escape rooms happening. There could be some giant chain reactions going on with balls and bean bags flying everywhere. People could be building cardboard cities. Andrew Farrer: I've got no idea because it's actually not down to us, it's down to the people who want to answer the questions that are part of their lives. Paul Marden: Wowzers. It's just amazing. I'm so excited for you. I'm so pleased because it's been a project that I've been watching from the sidelines growing. I'm so pleased that the project's not over and that there's an aspiration to really push this thing and squeeze it for all it's worth. Andrew Farrer: Just like my analogies. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Lastly, we always ask for a book recommendation and you're going to bankrupt me because I've invited three of you on here. So I'm going to get three book recommendations. So what are your recommendations, Becca? Rebecca Porter: First, first for you, I would say I'm actually a huge fan of an author called Philippa Gregory. And so my favourite book would be The White Queen by Philippa, which is all about Elizabeth Woodville. And Shima was married to I believe Edward IV during the Plantagenet era. So I love a bit of historical fiction. So that's my one. Paul Marden: Aha. Okay. So my colleague and co host Oz, big into historical reenactment. I'm sure that would be a book that would appeal to him. Andrew, what about you mate? What's your recommendation? Andrew Farrer: I have a book this is about I've had for years. I mean it's a kid's book really. It's a book called Aquila by someone called Andrew Norris and it's one of these books that it's about a short book. I keep revisiting it every now and again. It's just a story I've always engaged with. But it's funny, looking at it now, it almost seems very relevant. So it's about two young high school lads who on a school field trip get passed away from the rest of their class and end up falling into a cave and discovering a Roman centurion skeleton and by him what turns out to be an alien spaceship. So the navy spaceship have been on earth for some 2,000 years. Andrew Farrer: And the rest of the book is they don't want to just tell everyone else that the spaceship is here and it's them figuring out okay, well we can't take it home now because we're on a feeder trip so we've got to figure out a way to come back and get it home without anyone seeing it. And then they've got to learn how it works. And it turns out that it's kind of got AI function I guess and it can talk but because it was previously used by Roman, it taught in Latin. So they have to learn Latin. It turns out it's run by water. They figure out how much water. And it's a really brilliant story about these kids solving all of these problems around having quite that fun Canadian spaceship. Andrew Farrer: But at the same time their teachers are aware that these two kids who've classically not engaged at school at all are suddenly asking all of these really weird non class related questions. And yeah, they figure out the whole spaceship thing but think it's story they've made up for themselves. And so I give them the actual support and engagement they need in school to learn better than they were. But everyone misses that the spaceship is totally real, that these kids are flying off like Mount Everest on the weekend. So I love that. Paul Marden: Excellent. That sounds really good. That sounds like one I need to read to my daughter. Mandy, last but not least, what's your recommendation? Mandy Curtis: Just to say Andrew's book was made into a kids' TV series that I remember watching. Yeah, I've just. The most recent book I've read was one from way back. Not fiction. It was Life on Earth, David Attenborough and I reread read it often. It was the series that really sent me on my way to where I am now when I. I was doing unusually a zoology A level and my teacher played us the videos of Life on Earth and yeah, I've never got, never moved away from it. So yeah, that's the book I've read most recently and would recommend. Paul Marden: What, what a recommendation as well. That's a lovely one. So, dear listeners, as you know, if you go over to X and retweet the show, tweet and say I want Becca or Andrew or Mandy's book and the first person that does that will get that book sent to them. And I think as we got through recommendations, three of you could choose any one of those and we'll make an exception and bankrupt the marketing budget. Guys, it has been absolutely lovely talking to you and finding out a little bit more about the story of the journey that you've been on recently. And I think we should get back together again soon and find out how the pop up is going and what's actually filling that vacant shop because I think that's a really exciting proposition. But thank you for joining me today. Paul Marden: It's been absolutely marvellous. Mandy Curtis: Thank you. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, SkiptheQueue.fm. The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Help the entire sector:Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsFill in your data now (opens in new tab)

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DNSYE - THAT WAS THE WEEK THAT WAS!

Do Not Scratch Your Eyes

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2024 46:56

Justin, Carl and Pete make an, inevitably doomed attempt, to try to actually talk about football for a bit without going off on a tangent about the 1970's, food, London Transport Museum socks or how Carl has managed to lose consciousness this month!! We hear from players after all three of the games so far this season and not only judge each on what we think but also whether the answers are "media trained" bland stuff or genuine heartfelt responses from players who care about playing for the club! Listener warning: Justin is occasionally happy during this recording please do not adjust your listening device.COYH!!!!This Podcast has been created and uploaded by Do Not Scratch Your Eyes. The views in this Podcast are not necessarily the views of talkSPORT.Huge thanks to all our Patreons:Chris Giannone,RichWFC2,Steve Holliman,Paul Fiander Turner,Sean Gourley,Lee Anselmo,John Parslow,Mark von Herkomer,Neil Silverstein,Steve Brown,Dave Lavender,Kasey Brown,Nipper Harrison,Boyd Mayover,Colin Payne,Paul Riley,Gary Wood,Karl Campion,Kevin Kremen,The Big Le – Bofski,Greg Theaker,Malcolm Williams,Bryan Edwards,Peter Ryan,Luka,John Thekanady - Ambassador of Dubai!!Jack Foster,Jason Rose,Michael Abrahams,Ian Bacon,Ken Green,Nick Nieuwland,Colin SmithAnt!!!!!Westlie WheelerRyan D!Dave Mullins,James McNamaraJim Cuthbert& PDF Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

dubai acast talksport steve brown bryan edwards peter ryan paul riley jason rose gary wood ken green london transport museum dave mullins kasey brown do not scratch your eyes

Chris Packham - Mr Nature

Play Episode Listen Later May 21, 2024 54:33

How did a young punk become the face of nature and conservation for generations of British TV viewers? Well, Chris Packham is with Harry to tell us all about measuring grass snakes as a boy, his teenage punk band and strimming! We learnt all about the London Underground thanks to Siddy Holloway – presenter, author and transport historian. You can find Siddy on Instagram here and the London Transport Museum here. Visit Chris's website here to learn more about his charities, campaigns and books. Get in touch: harry@arewethereyetpod.co.uk Website: www.harryhill.co.uk Instagram: @mrharryhill YouTube: @harryhillshow Producer Neil Fearn A 'Keep it Light Media' production All enquiries: HELLO@KEEPITLIGHTMEDIA.COM Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Be Our Guest with Gus Gowland

Musical Theatre Radio presents "Be Our Guest"

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 16, 2024 40:04

Gus is an award-winning writer and composer from London and based in York, UK. His first full-length musical Pieces of String premiered in 2018 at the Mercury Theatre, Colchester. It was The Stage's Best Regional Musical of the year and was nominated for the UK Theatre Best Musical Production award. For Pieces of String, Gus won The Stage Debut Award for Best Composer/Lyricist, and was nominated for the inaugural Writer's Guild of Great Britain Award for Best Musical Theatre Bookwriting. His song cycle Lifeboats, celebrating the LGBTQ+ community was performed at the Kings Head Theatre in London as part of the MT Pride season in 2023 and his second full-length musical Mayflies premiered at York Theatre Royal in 2023, to great acclaim. Gus was commissioned to write new works for York Theatre Royal's Love Bites and Green Shoots and has written two short musicals – an audio musical short Subway which was released in 2020 - and SICK! which was performed at LOST Theatre, London. In 2021, Gus, with Craig Mather, wrote and released an EP of pop songs focused on mental health In Motion. His short play Clocks & Teapots was performed at Rada Studios & the London Transport Museum. He co-wrote and directed Barren, (special prize for merit at the LOST One Act Theatre Festival), Love Love Love (Canadian Fringe Tour) & wrote & performed in Tell Me On A Thursday at the Camden Fringe. Gus wrote two songs for Copyright Christmas, for Olivier award-winning theatre collective Duckie at the Barbican. Gus was commissioned by Hull Pride for their City of Culture celebrations and co-wrote with Alistair Brammer on the MADTrust album ‘The West End Goes MAD for Christmas'. Gus is a MGCFutures Bursary recipient and has been shortlisted for the Stiles + Drewe Best New Song Award twice, the Perfect Pitch Award and The KSF Artists of Choice program. Gus's work has been presented at BEAM, the Theatre Royal Stratford East Musical Theatre Workshop and has been supported by the Peggy Ramsay Foundation. Gus is currently resident artist at York Theatre Royal. In 2014, Gus was on the UK Jury for the Eurovision Song Contest!

Kelly's final episode

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 10, 2024 41:51

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends on 17th April 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads. Our guests:Paul Wright from Made by WagAndy Povey from ConviousLooking forward to 2023: Key digital trends attractions shouldn't miss out onBernard Donoghue from ALVASeason finale, with Bernard Donoghue!David Hingley from BOP ConsultingVisitor Experience restructure at Tate, with David HingleyPaul Griffiths from Painshill ParkThe transformation of Painshill Park, with Paul Griffiths, Director of PainshillRoss Ballinger from Drayton ManorThe importance of building a great social community and process behind rebranding a 70 year old attractionDanielle Nicholls from Alton TowersThe importance of building a great social community and process behind rebranding a 70 year old attractionRachel Mackay from Hampton Court PalaceThe importance of Sector Cooperation with Carlton Gajadhar and Rachel MackaySophie from Eureka! The National Children's MuseumHow to write a website brief that agencies will thank you for, with Sophie BallingerElizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport MuseumDeveloping a culture of innovation, with Elizabeth McKaySimon Addison from The Roman BathsHow introducing variable pricing increased revenue by 2.3 million, with Simon AddisonDominic Jones from The Mary Rose and Portsmouth Historic DockyardAttraction partnerships and rivalries, with Dominic Jones Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions.Paul Marden: On today's episode, I'm joined by my co host, Kelly Molson, founder of Rubber Cheese, as well as a group of returning guests to the podcast. This is Kelly's last episode as the host of Skip the Queue as she's leaving rubber cheese after 21 fantastic years of the agency. Today we'll be turning the tables on Kelly as the guests ask her the icebreaker questions. We'll also be looking back at the impact the podcast has had as some of our guests share their experiences of appearing on the podcast with Kelly.Kelly Molson: If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Paul Marden: So, how you doing?Kelly Molson: I feel slightly. I feel slightly apprehensive. You just said, like, are you ready? Have you got your tissues ready? Like I have. I'm prepared.Paul Marden: Good. So, listeners, today is a big episode, as well as being on 99th episode is also Kelly's last episode as the Skip the Queue host. Yeah. So many of you will know that after 21 years heading up Rubber Cheese, Kelly has decided to spread her wings and move on to pastures new. Paul Marden: And while this is news from many of the listeners, I've had a few months to prepare for this. So I've been thinking long and hard about this episode of what can I do? And I thought it'd be nice to look back at some of your best bits, but I didn't feel like I should do that on my own. I actually thought the best way of looking back at your best bits are to bring your best bits back to us. So I'm just gonna admit a load of people that want to join the edge.Kelly Molson: Oh, no.Paul Marden: So we have got a host of po face and audience members that are going to join us today.Kelly Molson: I'm going to cry already.Paul Marden: Excellent. I've done my job to start with straight away, so everyone's joined us for a virtual leaving party. So I hope you've got your whatsits in a bowl and your cheese and pineapple ready for you as we look back over some of your best bits and enjoy a Skip the Queue episode at its best. And so, for those of you that are listening and not watching, first of all, where have you been? These aren't facestrail radio. You should be subscribing on YouTube and watch these lovely people. But if you're listening, let me introduce you to the host of people that are joining us. We've got Andy Povey from Convious. We've got Bernard Donoghue from ALVA. We've got David Hingley from BOP Consulting. We've got Rachel Mackay from Hampton Court Palace. Sophie Ballinger from Eureka!Kelly Molson: You're supposed to be on holiday.Paul Marden: Sophie from Eureka! The National Children's Museum. We've got Ross Ballinger from Drayton Manor. We've got Dominic Jones from the Mary Rose. And we've also been joined by some of your lovely Rubber Cheese colleagues that wanted to say hi and goodbye.Kelly Molson: Look at everyone's beautiful faces. Oh, God.Paul Marden: And the tissues are going already.Kelly Molson: Do you know what? Just before I came on, I was like, I'm not going to cry. I am completely in control of today. If it was yesterday, I would have cried, but I'm completely in control today. I am not in control at all.Paul Marden: So, long time listeners will know that we always start off with an icebreaker question. And Kelly never tells the guests what the icebreaker question is in advance. So I'm afraid, Kelly, it's your turn. Bernard, you're going to kick off for us today. Would you like to ask Kelly your icebreaker question? Bernard Donoghue: Thank you. Claudia Winkleman. I'm delighted to join this episode of The Traitors. Paul Marden: Have you got the fringe to be Claudia? I'm sorry.Kelly Molson: No, we have not.Bernard Donoghue: Kelly, it's World Book day tomorrow. You've received short notice. What book do you go as to work, please?Kelly Molson: Oh, I would. I'd have to take one of my daughter's books. So she has got this book called Oh, no, George. And it's about an incredibly naughty dog with. He's a ginger dog with a very long nose. I would have to dress up as George because he doesn't do himself any favours. He hopes that he's going to be good, but he's just. He can't cope with being good and he eats all the cake and he knocks over all the tulips in the house and he's incredibly lovable, but incredibly naughty. So definitely George. That's me. Right.Bernard Donoghue: It's a lovely insight into your personality. Paul Marden: Perfect. Kelly Molson: Great question. Paul Marden: It is a great question. I hope you're ready for a few more because we've got some of these lined up for you. So the next. The next person that's going to join us, unfortunately couldn't be here today, so they sent me a little message that we'll play now.Paul Wright: Hi, Kelly. Remember me? It's Wag here.Kelly Molson: This is my old co founder.Paul Wright: My question to you. If every time someone clicked on a website and it made a sound. What noise would you want it to make?Kelly Molson: Oh, it has to be a big old fart noise, right? A real big wet one, like a whoopee cushion. Fart noise, please. Thank you.Paul Marden: So, Mrs. Marden, over breakfast this morning, as were talking through what I was going to talk about, said, oh, she's just going to say wet fart, surely.Kelly Molson: Absolutely.Paul Marden: She knows you so well.Kelly Molson: She's my level Paul Marden: Completely. Next up, we've got Mr. Andy Povey. Andy Povey: Hi, Kelly. It's been a while. So I'm very pleased to be here, but not for the reason that we are all there for. We spend a lot of time on the road, travelling around for our jobs. So my question is, what's your favourite motorway service station and why?Kelly Molson: I tell you what, Peterborough motorway service station. Because I know that I'm probably an hour from home then, so I'm nearly home. I've had a good few coffees in Peterborough service station.Andy Povey: I've not tried that one, I must admit.Kelly Molson: I mean, I don't know if it's up there with, like, the best, but, you know, I just. I know that I'm going to be home soon.Paul Marden: Bit depressing that the favourite motorway service is the one that's closest to home for you. Thank you, Andy. Next up, so here's a surprise. Danielle Nicholls from Alton Towers, you've managed to join us.Danielle Nicholls: So my question to you, Kelly, is you've worked with a lot of attractions and theme parks over the years, but which is your favourite theme park attraction or ride that you've ever been on?Kelly Molson: This is not a good question to ask, is it? Because I'm going to upset people. Danielle Nicholls: You can be diplomatic about it. Kelly Molson: My favourite ride, definitely not those ones that swing and literally make you one of them. My favourite ride. It's really hard. Yeah, it's really hard. Well, I was just trying to think of, like, where do I go with this? But I'm going to go with the one. It was mine and my dad's favourite when I was a kid and it doesn't exist anymore, which is really sad, but it's the Back to the Future ride at Universal.Kelly Molson: Which was absolutely epic and I can remember years ago queuing up like four times on the trot to go on it with my dad and he just. It was just brilliant. Absolutely absolute. I mean, I love that. I love eighties music movies. Yeah. My genre, anyway, but, yeah, that ride was absolutely incredible. Oh, that's amazing. Danielle Nicholls: I never got to do that one so very jealous. Kelly Molson: Good memories.Paul Marden: Paul Griffiths, can you take the floor and give Kelly a grilling? Paul Griffiths: Of course. Hi, Kelly. Good to see you. And good to see everyone else. We know that you love picking up souvenirs and knickknacks on your travels, particularly attractions. So what is your favourite souvenir you've taken away from one of your best tourist attractions?Kelly Molson: I've got them all here. Look at them. I've got my bounty on my desk.Paul Griffiths: The show and tell answer then, isn't it?Kelly Molson: Look, I've got. Yeah. Okay. What's my favourite one, though?Paul Marden: For listeners, hey can't see you picking up a dodgy eighties ice cream box.Kelly Molson: This is my ‘80s. It's a Bijam economy vanilla ice cream tub, which my parents were obviously really keen on feeding us well as a child. But in it are, I mean, hundreds and hundreds of rubbers that I've collected from different places and attractions over the years. And they smell. I wish this was smellyvision because they absolutely smell divine. There's so many in here. But I think, again, this is. And this is for memories. I'm going to go with this one and it's really old. This is my Thorpe Park rubber.Paul Griffiths: Very classic.Kelly Molson: Isn't it great? So it's got the Thorpe park rabbit on it. Rangers. Danielle Nicholls: Is it the Thorpe Park Rangers? Kelly Molson: Yeah. Yeah. Thorpe Park Ranger. Yeah. Thorpe Park. So that was, again, that was probably the closest attraction to the closest theme park to me as a kid, and we used to go there a lot and, like, my uncle used to take me there in the summer holidays. The whole family used to go. So that one has got really good memories. That's a great question, Paul. There's so many in here, though, that I could have chosen.Paul Griffiths: I didn't age to have them all to hand, though. Kelly Molson: That sat on my desk.Paul Marden: So I promised you that we would try and faithfully stick to the format once you hand the Batman to me. So I'm going to give you a breather from being grilled by everybody. What was your unpopular opinion that you wanted to share with everybody?Kelly Molson: Peas. Peas. Peas are the food of the devil. Peas taint everything that they touch. Sometimes. Nobody tells you that there's peas in stuff on the menu as well. Like, I love a fish pie. Fish pie is delicious. When you open up a fish pie and someone's gone. No, we'll just throw a few handful of peas in there just for a laugh. That's not fun. You can pick them out of stuff, but you can taste them in absolutely everything that they are in.Paul Marden: That's not an unpopular opinion, that's just. That's just a fact. I don't know how everybody else feels about peas, but I'm a pea hater as well.Sophie Ballinger: Oh, what about cheesy peas?Kelly Molson: No, cheesy peas. Even cheese would not make peas taste appealing to me.Dominic Jones: Wasabi peas?Kelly Molson: No. Danielle Nicholls: Minty peas? Kelly Molson: No peas. I like beans. Beans are okay. And like edamame beans, which I like peas. But not peas. It's just a very distinct difference.Bernard Donoghue: Nurse. Nurse. She's out of bed again.Sophie Ballinger: Where do you stand on mushy peas? Kelly Molson: Oh, so far from mushy peas. I did have to cook them once for Lee's old granddad. Oh, God. No.Paul Marden: Guacamole as. Who was it? It was one of the politicians and labour politics. Andy Povey: Peter Mandelson. Paul Marden: There we go. Peter Mandelson went into a fish and chip shop and asked to have guacamole with his fish and chips and it turned out was mushy peas.Kelly Molson: I'd eat guacamole with my chips. That's fine.Paul Marden: So should we go back to grilling you on some.Kelly Molson: This whole episode is just awkward questions for me. Is it great?Paul Marden: You've done this to everybody for 99 episodes. It's your turn to take one. Rachel Mackay from Hampton Court Palace, welcome.Rachel Mackay: Oh, hello. I've decided to go against the grade. I'm not going to ask your revision question because I know you'll just stare blankly at me anyway, so I'm going to go more general. What is your preference, running shoes or dancing shoes? Kelly Molson: Oh, dancing shoes. Dancing shoes all the way. I really miss dancing. You don't get to dance enough when you get older. Dancing is the one thing that I used to really love doing with my friends. Rachel Mackay: I thought you would say dancing shoes because also it gives you a bit of a heel.Kelly Molson: Which I need. No, you're absolutely right.Paul Marden: So the dancing. You'll be able to get them back out again soon because, what, Eddie's two now? Two and a bit. It will soon be birthday party season, where you'll be doing the hokey cokey and you'll be doing the conga.Kelly Molson: And she's already got all my moves. She's already got all my moves. Yeah, she's in the dancing zone.Paul Marden: Excellent. Next up, we've got somebody else that couldn't join us today, so they've sent us another little video to share with you. So this is Simon Addison from the Roman Baths and number two in the hour, top ten paid attractions outside London. And I say, sorry, Dominic.Dominic Jones: He deserves it. He's a great guy. And so is the Roman Baths.Paul Marden: Exactly. You haven't heard what he says yet.Simon Addison: Hey, Kelly, it's Simon Addison here from the Roman Baths. I'm really sorry that I couldn't be with you for the recording today. Before I ask you my ice breaker question, I just wanted to tell you about the impact that skip the queue is having, not just on those people who work in visitor attractions, but those who visit them too. Last month, I was walking around the National Portrait Gallery with Dominic Jones and a visitor genuinely pulled him over and asked him if he was the Dominic Jones from Skip the Queue. Kelly, you have created an absolute monster there.Kelly Molson: I love this.Dominic Jones: That is actually true. It actually happened. We were a bit bemused by it and were worried that someone had set this visitor up, but they genuinely wanted a Korean visitor attractions and had listened to it and I'd obviously said my name a bit too loud to Simon and they came up and asked for a picture. It was completely random, but brilliant.Paul Marden: I'm a little bit heartbroken because I actually genuinely thought they spotted the face and knew you from the YouTube.Dominic Jones: I think it was the voice, but, yeah, no, it was brilliant. It's all because of Skip the Queue, which is Simon's rise had a massive impact on everyone in our industry and actually people who want to join our industry. So you should be really proud. And hopefully that's the last random stranger that stopped me. But it was fantastic.Kelly Molson: Do you know what? I do feel really proud of that.Paul Marden: So, Simon's question.Simon Addison: Kelly, my icebreaker question for you is what is the weirdest piece of advice that you've ever received? And did you follow it? Thanks very much, Kelly, and thanks for everything. Thanks for all the episodes over the years and I wish you the very best of luck with everything.Kelly Molson: I'm trying to think what has been. Do you know, I have been given some advice about public speaking before, which I thought was quite strange. I used to really. I used to get really anxious about public speaking. It wasn't something that was massively comfortable for me. And I had loads of coaching from a really good friend of mine, Andy Loparta. And I don't know if it was Andy. I don't think this was Andy that gave me this advice. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been. But someone told me that if you go on stage and you clench your butt cheeks, you can't actually clench anything else. At the same time. And I'm like. I am, though. I'm clenching my butt cheeks now and I'm clenching my teeth so you can. But that's always stuck in my head.Kelly Molson: So I definitely tried it, but I don't know that it helped with my speaking whatsoever. I'm doing it now. Is everyone. Is everyone doing it now? Is everyone trying it? Everyone's doing it.Paul Marden: Standing desk practicing it right now.Sophie Ballinger: Yeah. Start bobbing up and down in my seat. You'll know why. Kelly Molson: There you go.Paul Marden: Lovely segue. Sophie Ballinger from Eureka. Why don't you ask Kelly your icebreaker?Kelly Molson: Hello, duck. Sophie Ballinger: Hello, duck. Hey, I've got a bit of a random one. I think I might have. It might have been asked you this in the agency interview many years ago, but I'm not sure because it's one of my favourites. Who would win in a fight between a badger and a baboon? Kelly Molson: I don't remember you asking me this. Sophie Ballinger: Should have done.Kelly Molson: Badger. I think Badger. Badgers are quite vicious, aren't they? You think the boots. Everyone's shaking their head. Oh, I think badger. I've never seen a live badger either, but I know that they're quite vicious.Paul Marden: We went into South Africa a few years ago and we stopped because we saw a troop of baboons on the side of the road and there were other people watching. So everybody got out their cars and they all stood around. All of a sudden, this alpha male baboon just crosses the road to the car behind us, opens the back door, gets into the woman's handbag when he's rifling through trying to find chocolate and she's sat in the front seat going absolutely crazy. So I promise you it'll be the baboon. So next up, we've got another video. Joining us this time it is Elizabeth McKay, CEO of the London Transport Museum.Elizabeth Mckay: Hi, Kelly. You were the nicest interviewer I ever had. So my question for you is equally nice, I hope. So, when you're getting around London, what's your favourite mode of travel? Is it tube, bus or cycle? Kelly Molson: Oh, I actually prefer to walk, so neither of the above. I know. Sorry. I'm sorry. I like. So I have to get the train in. So my train is the Liverpool street line. So I tend to get off. You know, I go. I'll go to Liverpool street and then I quite like to walk places. I do like the tube. Not gonna dis the tube, especially not to Elizabeth. But I quite like the opportunity to go and see stuff. And I think walking around London, everything feels everything so close together.Kelly Molson: So it's nice to be able to just walk and see things that you wouldn't normally see.Bernard Donoghue: Can I just point out that I've seen Kelly getting out of a disco rickshaw at least three times in the last week.Kelly Molson: Fake news. Fake news.Paul Marden: Now, Kelly, you did say to me that you had a few thank you messages that you wanted to share with people. So do you want to just have a couple of minutes to thank some people?Kelly Molson: Yes, I would. I would like to thank everybody because people have always been so incredibly generous with their time for me, and I'm always so grateful of that. You're generous to come on and talk to me. You're generous to come on and answer my ridiculous questions, but generous to share all your insight and knowledge. And I think especially through the pandemic, that meant an incredible amount to me and hopefully to our listeners as well. It really felt like people were coming on and sharing kind of a real time. This is where we're at. This is what's happening, and this is what we're doing about it. Experience. And it was amazing.Kelly Molson: The pandemic was incredibly difficult for everybody, but for me, the highlight was knowing that I was getting to speak to so many different people and being able to share that with other people as well. And it made it a really special time for me. So thank you for everybody that has ever come on the podcast and answered my stupid questions and shared all of their stuff with me. Thank you. Thank you to all of the listeners. I genuinely could not have imagined. I could not have imagined how well this podcast would go. I honestly can remember the day that I came in, I was like, “We should definitely do this podcast. I've been looking. I don't think there's anything like it. We should do it.” And my team going, “Yeah, how do we do it? I don't know. Let's just do it, though.”Kelly Molson: And this is what happens. I come up with these crazy ideas, and I'm the driver of them, but it's all the people around me that actually make the magic happen. And that is. That's for the podcast, that's for the survey, the report, the agency itself. All I've done is just kind of drag it along and share it with people. It's all the other people behind the scenes that do it. Steve works his magic every single episode. He really does. He cuts out a lot of swearing. The very professional introductions that I record separately to the interviews. Jesus. The amount of swearing that he has to cut out on those is ridiculous. So well done, Steve, mate, you deserve that award winning podcast editor title just for this. And Wenalyn. So Wenalyn down here waving. She.Kelly Molson: I mean, she really is the powerhouse behind the podcast because I'll get you to come on. We'll have a lovely chat. It goes over to Steve for the editor, and it comes back to, well, and she does everything. She does everything. She creates all the graphics. She uploads everything to the, you know, the website, she does the transcriptions, she creates, does all the podcasts, all the scheduling, all of the. All of it. So, you know, she really does do all the hard grunt work behind it. So thank you, Wenalyn. It's been such a lovely. It's been lovely to work with you over the years. Thank you.Paul Marden: Wenalyn wins the award for the longest distance journey into the meeting today because Wenalyn is over in the Philippines. Wenalyn wins this award in every single meeting that we have. So she does.Kelly Molson: She does. There is one more. Thank you. I wanna make, which is to the unsung hero of Skip the Queue. So it's for an old team member of mine, Ashley Mays, because if it wasn't for her, actually, there probably wouldn't be a Skip the Queue. She made this happen, really. Not only did she come up with the name, but she actually got one of our first guests to agree to come onto the podcast. Because I can't tell you how difficult that first season was. If you've ever gone back, it actually launched in July 2019. This podcast, myself and my co founder, Wag, who asked the ridiculous question I answered with a fart earlier. We both used to interview guests, but if you've ever tried to get someone to come onto a podcast and they go, great. Yeah.Kelly Molson: How many listeners and downloads have you got? You're like, none. Absolutely none. No listeners. You are our first guest. Please help us make something magic. That was quite a hard sell. Ashley had a family member who agreed to come onto the podcast, and it was actually Lynne Whitnall, who is the director of Paradise Wildlife Park, which is now Hertfordshire Zoo. She was the biggest name that we could have possibly hoped for in that first series. So really, that was the kind of catalyst for all of the other amazing guests that have come on since. 2019 was a really tough year for Rubber Cheese, and I had to let Ashley go at the end of 2019, and I'll tell you now, that was the single worst thing that I've ever had to do in my whole career as an agency owner, because she was brilliant.Kelly Molson: And I felt like I'd failed her at that time. So I really wanted to make sure that she got a big thank you. She's gone on and done brilliant things. Don't get me wrong, brilliant people always do. But that was genuinely the toughest thing that I've ever had to do. And it's probably my biggest regret of running the agency all of these years as well. So, yeah, big shout out to Ashley. She made a big difference.Paul Marden: Every agency owner enjoys the fun bits, the launches, the winning new business. Nobody enjoys that bit. But it is this life, isn't it? So, yeah, it was a tough time for everybody, wasn't it? And you said that Ashley came up with the name as well, didn't she?Kelly Molson: She did, yeah. Skip the Queue was all Ashley. I take no credit for that whatsoever.Paul Marden: Amazing.Danielle Nicholls: What a moment that was. That was really touching. Kelly Molson: Thank you.Paul Marden: Keep it together, mate. You've still got a few minutes to go.Kelly Molson: Okay?Paul Marden: So let's segue for some light relief to Ross Ballinger from Drayton Manor.Kelly Molson: Now, I'm not gonna lie, I'm really apprehensive about this. Ross. Ross Ballinger: Hello, lovely. Kelly Molson: Hi, Ross.Ross Ballinger: It's so nice to see and hear you. I feel like.Kelly Molson: Likewise, mate.Ross Ballinger: I've only known you, like, a short space of time but you were such a champion for me and Danielle when you spotted us at theme park award a few years ago.Danielle Nicholls: Really.Ross Ballinger: And we're just so grateful for that. You spotted our passion and our energy for the industry and obviously we just gravitated toward each other. Anything you've done for all the other professionals in the industry as well. So true testament to everything that you've done it just. It's all paid off and everyone loves you and thank you so much for everything on Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Oh, mate.Ross Ballinger: No, honestly, I think that was probably one of the best years I ever had in the industry, really, because it, like, it did stem up a couple of things did, like, fall out at the back of it because it got. It got me a little bit of 15 minutes of fame that I really enjoyed. And then I managed to do some presentations with different things and owe credit to you, really, for just, like, putting us in the limelight for a little bit. Kelly Molson: I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased. I just want to tell the story because I met the two of you at the UK theme park awards. It was at Drayton Manor, wasn't it? And these guys are on the table behind me and I've never had such enthusiasm. You two were the light, I mean, that. It was a bit of a. It was a bit of a. It was a. It was a tough crowd, wasn't it? Everyone was quite subdued in there, but used to, like, “Yes,” shouting and just.Danielle Nicholls: Basically every time anyone won, even if it was like, Pleasure Beach or being anyone. We were like, “Yeah, go guys.”Ross Ballinger: We were wooing everybody.Kelly Molson: What awards do should be like. Like, you two were like the Persona of an awards day. It was. It was so good to meet you that day. I had the best day meeting you two, and I just knew that I had to get you both on the podcast, and you were such a little dream team at Drayton Manor. And now, you know, you've set off on your different paths, but it's lovely to see. For me, it's really. I think it's brilliant to see where you're all going and what your good things are.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Thank you.Danielle Nicholls: That's really kind. Thank you.Ross Ballinger: Yeah, it was just one of those cases of, like, sat in the right place at the right time and the rest is history. Like, yeah, loved it. Loved the meeting on that day. Instant connection, you know? And you just get an instant connection with someone who shares the same energy and passion and insight, and they understand what you're doing and what you stand for. So, yeah, it was a really good day. Loved it. My icebreaker question, I did have four. Actually, so I don't even know if Paul knows what. I'm going to be honest.Paul Marden: Well, I'm taking the other two that you did send me because they were awesome.Ross Ballinger: I'm going to go with, if you could switch live with any fictional character, who would it be?Kelly Molson: It's a really good question. You need to. You have. You've wrote all these down, right? This is a good one.Ross Ballinger: Yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: With any fictional character. I'm trying to think of all the books that I've just thinking about. Well, okay. I've got this thing about reading. Like, if you go on holiday, I like to take, like, a really familiar book with me on holiday that you've read, like, a million times. And I don't know why. I've read The Beach, like, a billion times, which is far better than the film. Like, far better than the film. And I can't actually remember a guy's name in it now. It's gone off my head. But the Leonardo DiCaprio character in the book, I will swap lives with him because I feel like that whole travelling culture, I never got to do that. I wasn't brave enough to do that when I was younger, and I'd really like to go and do it now, but it's really difficult for toddler.Paul Marden: Not brave enough to do that. But you were brave enough to jack it all in and set up an agency 20 years ago.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Should I have done the travelling? Who knows? But, yeah, I think, yeah, I would swap places with him, although he goes a little bit crazy towards the end. I'd take that.Ross Ballinger: Thanks for your long lasting impact on a door. Thank you very much. Love you.Paul Marden: Well said, Ross. Crack and jog. So I'm going to take that and segue off quite nicely now to a video from your greatest fan, my daughter, Miss Amelia Marden. She wanted to be part of this, but she's busy at school today, so she sent you in a question and she said,Amelia Marden: Hello, Kelly. I've seen the video of the roller coaster you and dad went on at Drayton Manor. My question is, what is your favourite sort of roller coaster? Vertical drop or a loop de loop? Love you from Amelia.Paul Marden: For listeners. I kept it together on that roller coaster. There was no noise. I was completely composed. Everything was fine until it started moving at the beginning.Kelly Molson: So was this. No, hang on a minute. Was this the, this was the in the Viking. This is the Viking one, wasn't it? Because we've been on two roller coasters together. And the second one, it was in the rain and there was a lot of screaming in my ear as well. The first one was. Yeah, the first one was relatively screamy as well. What is my favourite? I like the shock of a drop. I do like a loop a loop. I'm cool with those. But there's something about like that. There's a, there's a motion sickness thing with me that is a bit. So the drop one I quite like. And again, this has got another good memory of my dad is that is Terra Towers. He loves the Terror Towers drop so much.Kelly Molson: My dad's got this thing in his head about taking Edie to Disney. Like my dad. My dad best in, he'll be when she's five, he'll be like 76. So, you know, he's getting on and he's like, that's my cutoff point. We're going to go to Disney when she's five, whether we all like it or not, because I can't do it any older than that. And he's like, we're going to go on Terror Towers, aren't we, Dad? I don't know if you should, dad. It's almost, I feel like maybe it was trigger of a heart attack. I don't know. A bit worried. But he's adamant that he's, you know.Paul Marden: He's going to Edie's five and we're taking them on to Terror Towers.Kelly Molson: Maybe it's going to work, Dad.Paul Marden: I think we don't need to set dad's expectations, teacups. And it's a small world and that's about it.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I'll have that chat with him.Paul Marden: And we have got a message in from Mister David Hingley.David Hingley: So I sit in a lot of meetings with Kelly, either in person or online, in her role as a trustee at Museum of the Broads. And it's usually not as dramatic as it might be. We talk about steamboats, coal, and our upcoming Pete exhibition, which is fascinating but can lack a bit of drama. So my question is, if every time you enter a room for the rest of your life a piece of entrance music plays, what piece of music are you choosing and why?Kelly Molson: Oh, my God. I've never thought about this question. This is a great question. Why has everyone given me really good questions now that I'm leaving? You idiots.Paul Marden: David is promising to play this at every future trustees meeting. As you arrive, he'll have Spotify on the phone ready to play.Kelly Molson: What would be my entrance music? I feel like it's got to be something. It's got to be something dancy where I can get my groove on. So I feel like. Like this someone's. Loads of people have probably said this, but I feel like. Like here comes the hot stepper. Would be a good one for me because I can, you know, I can drive in. Here come the odd stepper, you know?David Hingley: I'll record the next trustee meeting museums of the broad and circulates to this group.Kelly Molson: Oh, please do.Paul Marden: Thank you, David.Kelly Molson: I'll tell you what. I'll do it at the AGM. I'll dance in at the AGM.Paul Marden: So last up, we have Mr. Dominic Jones from the Mary Rose, who, along with Portsmouth Historic Dockyard, the third most popular paid attraction outside of London in the hour list released yesterday.Dominic Jones: Yeah, very happy about that. Very happy.Paul Marden: I can take you one better because still the undisputed most listened to podcast guest on Skip the Queue as of yesterday. Wow.Dominic Jones: I honestly can't believe that.Paul Marden: I know, I know. It's not as if you haven't dined out on that fact several times before.Andy Povey: He doesn't like to talk about it, Paul.Kelly Molson: He's so shy, doesn't he? Dominic Jones: I am shy. I don't talk about myself. That's incredible. What did you say number one?Paul Marden: Number one by country mile, I might say.Kelly Molson: Yeah, by nearly a hundred downloads, actually.Dominic Jones: Oh, well, that's fantastic. I'm absolutely honored about that. I have to say, I am so sad that Skip the Queue with Kelly is coming to an end because it's kept me company on many a motorway journey, on many a day when I've had a really tough day at work and thought, you know, what's going to cheer me up is Skip the Queue. Because not only do you motivate and inspire the next generation, like the person that sort of bumped into me and Simon, but you also motivate, inspire all of us. And actually, without Skip the Queue, and to be fair, ALVA as well, I don't think I'd have this amazing network of friends and colleagues that really keep me sane in some of the tough times.Dominic Jones: So I know we often talk and Bernard talks about how visitor attractions are like sort of the fourth emergency service, I would say, when it comes to working in a visitor attraction, you and ALVA. So Skip the Queue and ALVA are the emergency services, because without you, I don't think we'd be sane. Absolutely. You've made such a difference to my personal life and I can't thank you enough. But for an icebreaker question, one of the things that irritates me on Skip the Queue is you can tell who Kellys favourites are. So if she has someone from the zoo and she likes them, whats your favourite animal? Or someone from a theme park, whats your favorite ride? And then she gets people that she just asks really difficult icebreakers. So I was thinking, how can I get the most random, hardest icebreaker?Dominic Jones: And I was trying to remember, but when I was a child in the eighties and nineties growing up, a lot of my friends had Sky TV. We couldn't afford Sky TV. We had BBC One and BBC two. Well, on Sky TV there was this thing called WWF. Now, this was before the Internet. So I went to the library and worked out that it was about looking after animals. Turns out it wasn't. It was actually wrestling. And so I used to sort of been in the playground, talk to my friends, but never ever watching it, never really understanding it. So I'd be in my bedroom. I was very young at the time, pretending to be a WWF wrestler. I was the praying mantis, because I did watch BBC 2 a lot. Mantis, one of the very strongest animal in the animal kingdom.Dominic Jones: But if you were a wrestler in the WWF, what would be your wrestling name?Kelly Molson: I used to love the wrestling.Dominic Jones: I bet you did. I bet you did.Kelly Molson: I did. We went. So they did the one in the UK. They did the royal rumble and I had the finger and everything. Yeah. I used to like the bushwhackers and rowdy Roddy Piper and Jake the Snake. I was well into it. I was really into it. Yeah. I was not cool at school until I was well into the wrestling. So what would be my wrestling name?Dominic Jones: Yeah. And why?Kelly Molson: The trouble is, I'm a bit of a lover, not a fighter, so don't think I'd actually make a very good wrestler. I'm not actually that aggressive. Looking at me as if I've said something crazy, then I'm not a fight. I might have a fiery temper, but I'm not a fighter. Oh, God. It's. I don't know what rhymes. Like, Kelly's a really rubbish name to rhyme stuff, but Kick ass Kelly, it's rubbish, isn't it?Dominic Jones: Good, that'll do.Kelly Molson: Okay. Kick ass Kelly. Yeah. I don't know what would be my costume. There'd definitely be some neon in there. I feel like I'd be like the eighties girl. Like neon leggings and leg warmers and stuff. Yeah.Dominic Jones: And maybe some fire in the background as well, just to spice it up. Yeah.Kelly Molson: Yeah, maybe.Paul Marden: I reckon there's got to be some cheese in there as well. You need some. You need some cheese in that wrestler name, ain't it?Kelly Molson: There's not many cheeses that begin that, like, rhyme with Kelly either.Dominic Jones: The worst ever icebreaker. I've ruined it.Kelly Molson: Good question. No, I like it.Dominic Jones: Oh, I should have done. What's your favourite boat? That's what I should have done.Paul Marden: Oh, come on then.Kelly Molson: What's my favourite boat? Well, it would have to be the falcon or the. Can't remember the name of the other one.David Hingley: Well, the other one.Kelly Molson: Is it the Marsh Harrier?David Hingley: That's the one.Kelly Molson: There you go. At the Museum of the Broads is a wonderful museum. You can also take your family out on a little boat trip. It's also dog friendly as well, you know, bring all your friends.Dominic Jones: Great. Plug in one of your recent episodes. I was listening and thought about booking a holiday. It was a great plug in the last episode. You did?Kelly Molson: Well, if you do fancy a little holiday trip to Norfolk, you know, there's a little holiday cottage that you could. You could hit me up for, Dominic. So just, you know, let me know.Dominic Jones: Absolutely.Paul Marden: I reckon I should have got 20 quid in my pocket every time you mention that guest house.Kelly Molson: I really hope that someone books someday and they're like, “We heard it on Skip the Queue.” “Yes! It worked.”Paul Marden: They'll insist on a discount. Thank you, Don. That was amazing. If any of our listeners would like to support any of the other guests and boost their listener figures to compete with Don, I'm going to put the details of everybody's episodes in the show notes, because frankly, Dominic Jones: Why would you do that?Kelly Molson: That's mean.Dominic Jones: Why would you do that? Surely this is the end now. Number one, the end.Paul Marden: We're talking load of nonsense and I need to put something in the show notes. So I thought I'd put the episodes that everybody was in on the show notes. Can you exclude one, Paul? Oh, I'm sure I can, yes.Dominic Jones: I think yours is okay, Andy. I wouldn't exclude you. Yours was a great one. Paul Marden: So they'll all be in the show notes. And lastly, all of our guests asked to pick a book that they love. So Kelly, what's your book?Kelly Molson: I read this book right at the very start of my agency journey. A very good friend of mine, he's been a coach of mine for a number of years, said that you should read this book, and it is How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie. It's a very old book, but it is a classic. And this book opened my eyes and ears. So it really taught me how to understand and listen to people. And I think for me, building an agency like we have over the years, so much of that comes down to listening to people, understanding what their challenges are. You know, we have to network. You know, a lot of what we do is based on reputation and how likable you can be and all of those kind of things.Kelly Molson: And this book really gives you an understanding of that, about what it is to be likable. And you shouldn't have to teach this to people. Like, really, it's pretty common sense, but, you know, it can be difficult for people to understand, like, why you should listen to people and why you should just let people talk. And I think a lot of the things that I learned from this book, I have applied to the podcast, so I just want to read out a little synopsis. Well, some of the things that I think are really important about how you listen to people, and it's. It's about becoming genuinely interested in other people.Kelly Molson: And I hope that has come across in this podcast, because every single person that has come on and shared with me has just given me so much to think about, and I've learned so much from you all. It teaches you to smile, like smiling is just so important. I've always been amazed at how many people that don't smile back when I smile at them when I'm out walking the dog in the morning. Just smiling is the simplest thing that you can do to connect with somebody. Remembering people's names. Remember that a person's name to that person is the most important sound in any language. Make sure that you can just remember people's names. Be a good listener. Encourage others to talk about themselves. And I hope that I've done that. I've always hoped this podcast, you know, it's not about me.Kelly Molson: It won't be about Paul. It will be about all the guests that come on and still continue to come on and talk to us about their stories and their challenges and their initiatives and all the brilliant things that they do. And I hope that I have gone above and beyond in making other people feel important. And I hope I've been sincere in doing that as well because it is all about you. You all make this podcast amazing and I genuinely am so grateful that you've allowed me into your ears and allowed me to share everybody else's stories in a really fun way. So thank you.Paul Marden: Kelly, that was really. Yeah, awesome. Listeners. If you'd like to win in Kelly's book, then head over to the show announcement on X and retweet as saying, I want Kelly's book. That just leaves me to say that we are busy planning season six now. Wanlyn and I met yesterday with Oz to start brainstorming ideas for what we can do in season six. If you've got ideas, then send them in. Let us know on Twitter. We'd love to hear those X, I should say. If you would like to appear in an episode, let us know, because I love to interview people. So let us know if you'd like to come onto the podcast, that would be amazing. That's about it from all of us here today. So I want to thank my lovely co hosts, the Skip the Queue alumni.Paul Marden: I want to thank the rest of the Rubber Cheese team that came along as well. I want to thank you, Kelly, for everything that you've done for us and thank the lovely listeners. I look forward to seeing you all in the next episode of Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Thank you so much. This is amazing. Thank you. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!

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What does it take to be a truly family friendly museum?

The Insider Travel Report Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 20, 2024 48:37

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends on 29th March 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://skiptontownhall.co.uk/craven-museum/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenny-hill-54503a189/ Jenny Hill is Lead Museums Curator at North Yorkshire Council, including at Craven Museum in Skipton. She has a degree in History from Lancaster University and a Contemporary History MA from the University of Sussex. She has worked in the sector for almost 7 years and is passionate about community engagement and making museum collections accessible for all. Between 2018-21 she worked on a National Lottery Heritage Funded capital redevelopment project at Craven Museum. In 2023 her team won the Kids in Museums Best Family Friendly and Most Accessible Museum awards. https://kidsinmuseums.org.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/alison-bowyer-0608a417/Alison Bowyer has worked in the cultural sector for over 20 years with previous roles at LAMDA, the National Youth Orchestra of Great Britain, Southbank Centre and the Academy of Ancient Music. The longer her career has continued, the more convinced she is that we still need to work harder to make culture and heritage accessible to all.She has a longstanding interest in museums and how people engage with heritage, having been a volunteer at Handel House Museum (now Handel and Hendrix) in London and completing degrees in Cultural Memory and History. Alison has been Executive Director of Kids in Museums for seven years. During which time, the organisation has become an Arts Council England IPSO, won a Museum + Heritage Award, developed a new national training programme, established a Youth Panel and delivered a range of new programmes.Outside of work, Alison is a listening volunteer for Samaritans, a Director of the Family Arts Campaign and likes to crochet. Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. On today's episode I'm joined by my co-host, Paul Marden, CEO of Rubber Cheese.We're speaking with Alison Bowyer, Executive Director of Kids in Museums and Jenny Hill, Lead Museums Curator at Craven Museum.It's almost a Kids in Museums takeover as Paul is one of their amazing trustees.Today we're finding out what it takes to be a truly family friendly museum, why it's important for you to engage with the Kids in Museums manifesto, and how you can enter the awards this year.If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Hello, Alison, Jenny, and Paul, welcome. Welcome to Skip the Queue today. This is a treat. I am joined by Alison and Jenny today and we're going to talk about kids and museums. And I've also got Paul. Hello, Paul, who has joined me as co host today, and he is going to start the icebreakers. This is new.Paul Marden: It is, isn't it?? It's a brave new world for us, isn't it? So I've got a lovely one for you, Alison. So should we get started? What are you most likely to buy when you exit through the museum gift shop?Alison Bowyer: Oh, gosh, that's a really tough one. Definitely postcards. I'm also a sucker for a nice sort of pencil case or I do like museum jewellery. I have quite a lot of tattoo divine, especially museum themed jewellery. And I do also have a pushant for like, cute, fluffy things, even though I'm not a child. I'm 44 years old, but still.Kelly Molson: I'm loving this. Hello. At museums, Alison is your best gift when she comes because she's filling up her bag.Paul Marden: Think of all of those museum gift shops that you can go through with all the jewellery in because there are some amazing ones, aren't there, that have the jewellery stands in them.Alison Bowyer: That completely are. And I like to buy all my gifts for other people from museums if I can. So I am a big museum shopper.Kelly Molson: It's really lovely to do that. So just before Christmas, actually, I think it was. No, yeah, it was November time. I went over to the Ashmolean museum and their gift shop is really lovely, actually, and had a really good nosy around it in between meetings. And oh, my God, I bought so many of my Christmas gifts in there. It was brilliant. My best friends, I bought Edie a book called Bear at the Museum, which she adores. It's the most read book in our house at the moment, which is lovely, but I bought my mother in law jewellery. I bought her earrings from the Ashmolean, which were absolutely lovely. So I'd never really thought about jewellery from a museum as well. There you go.Kelly Molson: Good tip for you from Alison today. Thank you. Right, Jenny, have you ever been pulled off by security for touching a museum exhibit?Jenny Hill: I haven't personally, no. But I did visit Manchester Museums with a friend and she was told off whilst were in the gallery because it was a really pretty furniture display and she just kind of automatically reached out a hand because she was like, “Oh, it's so pretty”, and instantly clocked by the security guard in the room and we very sheepishly left quite quickly.Kelly Molson: I love that. It's really hard, isn't it, if you're quite a tactile person as well, and you're like, “Oh”, because you would do that if you were in a shop, right?Jenny Hill: Exactly, yes. And she was just really excited by it was kind of just like an instant response. We were like, “Oh, no, shouldn't have done that.”Kelly Molson: I love that. One day you will get told off. I know this, and you need to come back on and share that with us. Okay? Right, I've got one for both of you now. So, Alison, I'm going to start with you. If you had to wear a t shirt with one word on it for the rest of your life, what word would you choose and why?Alison Bowyer: Oh, gosh, one word makes it really difficult because it can't be like a command.Kelly Molson: Well, it could stop.Alison Bowyer: Yeah, that's true.Kelly Molson: It is a command.Alison Bowyer: Because I have one at the moment that I'm quite fond of that just says “Be kind on it.”Kelly Molson: That's nice. All right, well, maybe I'll let you have two words.Alison Bowyer: You can't just say kind because that sounds really weird. And od, if I'm allowed to, it would “Be kind.”Kelly Molson: Okay, we'll allow to, for the purpose of this podcast, we'll allow to. That's nice. I like that one. Jenny, what about you?Jenny Hill: “Be curious” as well. I think that's something that always happy for our visitors to do when they're visiting, is to be curious. And I think it's just a good motto for life, isn't it, to always be thinking, always be inquisitive. Yeah.Kelly Molson: They're very good one, Paul, I'm going to ask you as well. Sorry, dropping you right in it. What about yours?Paul Marden: Learn. It has got to be if it's got to be one word, because one's a toughie. Learn.Kelly Molson: I like that. Somebody actually went with the brief. Thank you for obeying me.Paul Marden: Always. I know my place.Kelly Molson: Doesn't happen often. All right. Thank you, everyone, for sharing that. I appreciate it. Right, unpopular opinions. What have you prepared for us? Alison? Over to you first, I think.Alison Bowyer: Oh, gosh, this question made me so stressed.Kelly Molson: I'm so sorry.Alison Bowyer: No, no, it's fine. Not in a bad way, because I was like, oh, my goodness, I'm not sure what I have that's unpopular. And then I started googling unpopular opinions and I found all these weird lists of things that I never even considered were opinions, like people saying that C is the most redundant letter in the English language and you could replace all C's with S's and K's. Apparently, this is a commonly held unpopular opinion. So, yeah, then I started thinking, oh, goodness, I'm not really sure I'm up to this. I think what I came up with in the end was, which is going to make me unpopular, probably. I think pizza is the worst takeaway because it always survives cold and hard and the topping off, it falls off in transit, so you end up with a really dowsy meal.Kelly Molson: I love a pizza takeaway, though. I can't be down with you on this one because I love a pizza. It's because we never get to eat pizza. Oh, no. Actually, we've had pizza quite frequently recently because Edie loves it. But Lee has always been a bit like anti pizza takeaways. Okay.Paul Marden: I don't understand people that have the delivery of burgers and chips, because surely that is going to be cold by the time it gets to you and they're going to be rubbish chips.Kelly Molson: Yes. That's weird. Yeah, that is weird. I've never ordered a burger to be delivered to my house. That sounds strange to me. Ok, let's see what Twitter feels about your pizza. Unpopular opinion. Jenny, what about you?Jenny Hill: Oh, mine's similar on a food topic, which I feel is going to make me really unpopular. But something I always say that really annoys people is I really hate brunch, which I feel is very unpopular. But I'm a person that gets regularly hungry, so for me, waiting to go out for food in the morning is just not possible. So I will always have to have something to eat before I leave the house. So I'll always basically have breakfast and then before you know it, I'm eating again. So at that point, it's essentially lunch. So for me, brunch doesn't really exist.Kelly Molson: Okay. All right. Let me argue this point back to you, though. So if your girlfriends or whoever had asked you out for brunch, you'd have breakfast first, right? So you'd have like 08:00 breakfast and then you'd go for brunch. But if you're always hungry, doesn't that just mean you just eat lunch a little bit earlier? So brunch is like.Jenny Hill: I mean, I don't mind eating again, but it's just the concept, I guess, of calling it brunch just doesn't feel accurate for me by that point because I've already had a full breakfast.Kelly Molson: Okay. So I have a similar challenge with afternoon tea. I can't stand afternoon tea. Sorry if this upsets people. I don't understand why you get to a certain age and all of your every thing has to be, “Oh, should we go for afternoon tea?” No, why don't we just go to the pub like we used to? Go to the pub. Just go to the pub. What is it about afternoon tea? It's really annoying. And it's one of those. It's always at like 03:00 so what is it?Jenny Hill: It's not a meal. It's the same situation, but in the middle of the afternoon. I agree.Kelly Molson: Exactly. Okay, I can get on board with your brunch thing then. If you're on board with my afternoon tea thing. Good.Paul Marden: I'll take you afternoon tea and I'll raise you a kids party at 2:30 in the afternoon. It's neither lunch nor is it dinner. So I have to feed the child before. I have to feed the child afterwards. And then they're going to eat more food in the middle of the day.Kelly Molson: They are. They are. But I mean, Edie eats constantly so that it doesn't really matter. But kid's parties are amazing because buffet food is the best kind of food. I'm all down for a kid's party. You get what's it, what's not to love? You get party rings. There's always sausage rolls, which is like my number one top snack of all time. I'm here for the kid's parties. I'll just take the food. You can have all the kids. Okay. Should we talk about some serious stuff now?Paul Marden: Yeah. Shall we do that?Kelly Molson: I mean, it's still equally fun, but let's get on, shall we? We're talking about Kids in Museums today.Paul Marden: Which is really good, isn't it?Kelly Molson: It is a great topic.Paul Marden: I feel like I'm going to learn loads about Kids in Museums that I probably should already know as I'm a trustee of Kids in Museums. But I get to ask Alison all the questions that perhaps I've been a little bit too scared to ask for the last year because I might look a little bit silly if I don't know the answer.Kelly Molson: Yeah, and she has to answer you because that is what the podcast rules are.Paul Marden: Exactly. All right then, Alison, why don't we kick off, tell us a little bit about Kids in Museums and how the organisation was developed.Alison Bowyer: Kids in Museums has existed in one form or another for about 20 years now, which always astonishes me a little bit. So we started life when our founder, who at the time wrote to the Guardian, her name was Dea Birkett and she took her young child, I think she was about two years old, to the. I'm going to name and shame, I'm afraid, the Aztec's exhibition at the Royal Academy. And her son screamed at one of the massive Aztec statues, which, if I remember the exhibition correctly, was totally fair enough, because the statues were pretty. I mean, they were designed to be scary. That's one of the reasons why they built some of them. So they were thrown out of the Royal Academy because apparently he was disturbing the other visitors.Alison Bowyer: And then Dea wrote about this in her Guardian column, and what happened after that was the Guardian got a lot of letters coming from families telling Dee about similar experiences they'd had when they were out and about in museums with their children. And so a campaign was born to make museums better places for families, children and young people to visit. And to an extent, what happened on that day at the Royal Academy, that kind of remains our guiding principle. We are led by what visitors tell us about their experiences and we really strongly feel that museums, galleries, heritage sites, as kind of public space, should be for everyone, and everyone should be free to have that access, to feel comfortable when they're visiting and to have a really great time during your visit. So since then, the charity has evolved in various ways.Alison Bowyer: Today, we work across the whole of the UK and we will work with any kind of museum, gallery, heritage site, historic house, castle, any kind of outdoor heritage site to support them and lead them and encourage them to take action, to better places for families, children, young people. We're quite a small organisation. There's only five of us in total, but we feel like we achieve a lot. And last year we won the Museum and Heritage Award for being the Best Sector Support Organisation in the UK, which was a really amazing validation of our work. That definitely doesn't mean we're sitting on our laurels, though. We're always trying to spend time talking to families, talking to young people, talking to museums about how we can create new programmes, refine our existing programs to do better.Alison Bowyer: And we really want to be approachable, supportive, trusted experts. So we are doing the best by both the audiences we represent and the museums we try to support.Paul Marden: I think the size of the organisation. I know Vanessa, our chair, often says how much you, as a team, punch above your weight, because I don't think anyone would imagine that it was such a small team that was having such a loud voice. Is that a positive thing? That should be a positive thing. How much impact you have with such a small team? It's amazing.Kelly Molson: It was lovely at the MandH Show. I was at those awards, and I saw that win happen, and it was fantastic because the cheer from the crowd was pretty phenomenal. So congratulations on that.Alison Bowyer: Thank you. I was so sure weren't going to win. I wasn't there, and I'd gone to bed and gone to sleep.Kelly Molson: Woke up to some spectacular news.Alison Bowyer: Yeah, no, it really did. But, yeah, no, it was brilliant to get that recognition. It helps more people find out about us as well, which is always valuable.Paul Marden: So what is it that you offer museums, and how can they get involved more with what you're doing?Alison Bowyer: So we like to think that we've got something for pretty much any kind of museum, whatever your level of expertise in working with families, children and young people is whatever resources you have, how many staff you have. So we have a large, free offer, which is kind of the building blocks of what we encourage museums to do, and it's all centring on our manifesto. So our manifesto is something that we compile with children, families and young people. So every two years, which actually is something we're going to be doing this year, we will be out talking to museum visitors, doing a national survey, and finding out about what their good and bad experiences of museums are. And then we will take all that information and distil it down into six easy points that make up our manifesto.Alison Bowyer: And then that's a document that we think pretty much every museum should be able to commit to in their work. None of it is particularly complicated, or a lot of it doesn't need to be resource intensive. They're all pretty simple things that everybody should be able to do. So that's a really good starting point. And over a thousand museums have signed up to the manifesto and hopefully are using it in their work. I know we'll hear later from Jenny about how Craven Museum did that. Once you've signed the manifesto, there are lots of other things that you can get involved in.Alison Bowyer: We've got over 100 free resources on our website, which cover everything from ways to implement the manifesto at low cost, how to create self guided resources for families, right up to things like how you can engage children and young people with the climate emergency in your museum. So they cover a really wide range of things that we think are helpful to the teams in museums who are doing that work on the ground. We have a programme of UK training, so we run about trend training sessions a year for museum staff and we also work with museum development organisations on training and that's available to attend in person for a small ticket price or to buy us recordings.Alison Bowyer: Then every year we run a program called Takeover Day, which is a really brilliant, fun, exciting initiative where children and young people age between 0 and 25 go into museums and they do adults jobs for the day. When I say 0 to 25, I really mean that. We have toddlers doing museum Takeover Days, being given tasks like polishing glass museum cases with soft dusters, doing some cleaning and doing some object packing with, like, wooden blocks. They don't let them use loose on the actual collection.Paul Marden: With white gloves on. Kelly Molson: I'm laughing because Edie would be like up there licking the glass, not trying to clean it, thinking about my daughter. And Paul is smiling because he did one of these Takeover Days. Alison Bowyer: He did. Yeah.Kelly Molson: He's got a massive grin on his face.Paul Marden: We loved it. We got to be curators for the day. The kids got to run around the museum and then they went back into the learning suite of the Mary Rose Trust and they got told to design an immersive exhibition and they took ideas from all around the museum and designed out what they would do and such brilliant ideas that they had. It was such a great experience for them to get that kind of behind the scenes experience of what the museum is actually like.Alison Bowyer: So we see from Takeover Day that impact Paul has described. More than 70% of the young people who take part say that they would like to go back to a museum again as a result of being part of Takeover Day. And more than two thirds of the museums say that they now know more about what young people want from their museums and will make a change. So it's a really brilliant initiative. Then we obviously have the Family Friendly Museum Award, which is what we're going to be talking about with Jenny and I'll talk more about it later. And we've got some new programs coming online this year. So for the first time, we're working with a group of museums to help them appoint their first young trustees. So they're going to have people on their boards by the end of the programme age between 18 and 25. Alison Bowyer: And we also are running some programs with our own youth panel that they've designed. So we are working with them on a project which will hopefully show that museums can help address social isolation that young people experience when they move for education or new jobs.Kelly Molson: I think it's just take a pause there and just reiterate that there are five of you in the Kids in Museum's team. That is a pretty phenomenal menu of things that you offer to museums with just five people.Paul Marden: It's amazing, isn't it?Kelly Molson: Yeah. Let's just keep that up there as we're talking today. Thanks, Alison. Jenny, I want to come over and chat to you about Kids in Museums. How did you first kind of find out about them and get involved with what they're doing?Jenny Hill: So, I've been aware of Kids in Museums probably since I first started working in the sector around six, seven years ago now. I've been on their website, sort of seen their name come up and use some of their guidance when I was doing some of my initial sort of museum work. But I think they sort of really stood out to me. From about 2021, I got involved with some training with part of Museum Development Yorkshire, whose sector support as well, funded by Arts Council England, and they were running front of house cohort that I got involved with at the time. And we had a really great training session as part of that cohort with Laura Bedford from Kids inMuseums. She gave a really inspiring talk and session on creating family friendly interactions in museums, and that was really inspiring.Jenny Hill: I learned a lot during that session and really made me think, oh, we definitely need to be involved with this more. And then later on in the same year, I actually did an in person event. It was at the auction museum, and actually got to have a chat with Laura there about Kids in Museum's work. So that was really helpful. So, yeah, we kind of taken it from there. We signed up to the kids and museum manifesto following on from that, started to use those sort of principles in a lot of our front of house work and then behind the scenes as well. So, yes, Kim, have been on my radar for quite a while.Jenny Hill: But, yeah, it's sort of the past three years, really, that we've really sort of been taking on board a lot of their, using a lot of their resources and their ideas.Kelly Molson: It's lovely to see that it was indirectly as well. So obviously, Kids in Museums and what they do, it's good that they work in partnership with other organizations as well. So there was like a crossover there. Why did you enter the Family Friendly Museum award last year?Jenny Hill: So Craven Museum went through a National Lottery Funded redevelopment project between 2018 and 2021. So we completely redesigned our museum space. It used to be really inaccessible. It used to be at the top of Skipton town hall. There was no lifts up there. It was a really steep, horrible flight of stairs to get up there, and a lot of the interpretation was really outdated. A lot of it was not very accessible. So after our redevelopment project, which really put access at the centre of all of our work, and particularly looking at family audiences, this is a group that we really wanted to feel welcome to our museum. It's a group that we'd been working with a lot pre redevelopment and we really wanted to expand our work with this audience after we reopened.Jenny Hill: So after all this work was completed, we spent 2022 in sort of that post Covid year, finding our feet when maybe our visitors weren't quite as confident coming onto site and people were still getting to know that were reopened as well. So we had got a lot of people coming in going, “Oh, I didn't realise the work had finished.”Jenny Hill: That was sort of our sort of pilot year. Whereas last year in 2023, we really felt that we hit our stride and we've been piloting lots of new ideas in 2022 and embedding our family friendly ethos in our work. So it kind of was the year that work really felt like it came to fruition after having spent quite a few years developing it. So we thought, as a team, that we'd really like to sort of get this work hopefully recognised. And a family friendly museum award really felt like a way to do that and we really wanted it to sort of give a boost to our team as well, who'd been working hard on that. So, yeah, we just thought it would be a great year to get involved and we entered it with very low expectations.Jenny Hill: We thought, we're a small museum in the north of England. We weren't sure if we'd be, I don't know, sort of recognised for what we've been doing. So it was absolutely amazing to get recognition through the award in that way. It's fantastic.Kelly Molson: It feels like the recognition was for the team and for the people that were kind of working in it. Is that what was important to you about entering?Jenny Hill: I think so, yes. It was to prove to the team that the work that they'd been doing was really valid and really important. And I think in the museum sector, sometimes there's quite a lot of pressure on quite small teams. Like Alison was saying, there's only five people in Kids in Museums, and we're a small team, too. So I think having that recognition for the team just really helps them to know that, yes, they're doing a good job alongside the fact that it's obviously important to us to sort of share with the families that do come and use the museum, that it's going well.Kelly Molson: How difficult was it to write the entry? Because I think that there's often a barrier. I mean, certainly for us, there's been things that I've thought this would be great to enter, but I look at it and think, “Oh, my goodness, this is going to take me, like, four or five days to actually pull all of these things together and write it. And write it in a way that's appealing.” Did you find it was an easy process to go through?Jenny Hill: Actually, yes, we did find it, because I've done some applications that, yes, like you say, it can be quite as difficult, quite time consuming. I actually found the process for Kim really easy. So when the applications opened, members of the public were asked to nominate their favourite museum through a form on the Kim website. And we're really excited that we got some lovely nominations from families. And then kids and museum got in touch to let us know that we could make full application because we'd been nominated. So after that point, there was an online form that we could fill out that asked questions like, how have you made visiting your museum accessible to families, children and young people with additional needs? So that was one of the sort of longer questions on the form because we applied for the best accessible museum.Jenny Hill: And that was. Yeah, I think because of all the work that we've been doing and because that kind of ethos is embedded in our team, weren't talking maybe about a specific project that we'd been working on. As some applications, I feel like they're very sort of project focused, but having such a wide question like that meant that we could just talk about what we do every day at the museum, which is what's really important to us. Jenny Hill: So, yeah, there were nice questions to answer because they kind of felt like they gave us the space to talk about all of our work. So that was brilliant. And we also had the opportunity to upload some supporting materials so we could get some photos in there, send through some of our more visual. Yeah, I think we might have sent a video as well. So that was great, too, because it meant we could share lots of different aspects of our work.Kelly Molson: I love that. And spoiler alert even. You won. You're not only be the overall winner, you were the Best Accessible Museum winner as well.Jenny Hill: Yes. And I was still absolutely blown away by that.Kelly Molson: It's phenomenal. Congratulations.Jenny Hill: Thank you.Kelly Molson: Huge for that.Paul Marden: I wonder if the reason why you found it not too painful to do the application is because this is folded into you. This is running through your core. You're just telling people what you do every day, and so you're just telling the story of what you do all the time.Jenny Hill: I think that's how it feel. Yeah.Paul Marden: Alison, let's talk about. I remember sitting in the audience listening to you talking about all the different museums and what the judges said and what stood out, and I loved hearing those stories. So what was it, do you think, that stood out about the Craven Museum, about their entry for you?Alison Bowyer: So there were a few things about the Craven entry that really grabbed us. The first that I remember reading was that they had built our manifesto into their visitor charter, which is amazing because they are taking what we know, families, children, young people need and want, and they're building it into that work that they do every day. Like Jenny was saying, this is them living that way of working, which is incredible. And I think throughout the application, you got a real sense that all of their staff really cared about this. There was a page in the supporting document with the whole team on it saying just, like, one little thing about everyone in the team. And it was really amazing to see that because you felt that where in some museums, this is kind of just what the people in the learning team do.Alison Bowyer: That wasn't true at Craven. Everyone at Craven really cared about the families he visited, and I think that was really borne out in the family nominations we received. There were so many families who were telling us how much they loved going to the museum that their children saw it as, like, the highlight of their half term holiday. And they talked for weeks in advance about wanting to go, and the make and take craft seemed to be a particular hit. There were lots of families telling us that their children couldn't wait to go back and do that again. And the families who nominated the museum also, they sounded really proud that their town had the museum, which was really lovely. And also, I think, something that came through, which is a kind of sad reflection of the way the world is at the moment.Alison Bowyer: They really appreciated that all of that was available for free. When they're struggling to find things for their family to do that don't cost much, it felt like it was a really important thing to have that amazing resource in their town. And there were other little things, too. The museum is a safe space. The staff have amazing access training and training in inclusive language, and those things really help with kind of broadening out who can come into the museum and something that we spend quite a lot of time talking about. That isn't always something museums pick up on. And the Craven Museum website is just amazing, incredibly informative. I think it came in like the top five or something in the state.Alison Bowyer: The museum access website report in the whole of the UK for its access information, which a museum of its size is absolutely incredible. We spent so much time telling people that families like to plan, they like to look at a website in advance and find out about all the facilities, and Craven had actually done that and it really makes a difference. So were really pleased to see that. And then I think the final thing was the community case and how they had a space in the museum where local people, local organisations, could show things that were important to them. So they were really giving the local community the opportunity to see themselves in the museum and feel a sense of kind of belonging and ownership.Alison Bowyer: So I think all of those things came together and it was really clear that Craven Museum was going to be a really strong contender, which was why they shortlisted them. And then it was over to the families to judge them during the second stage of the award.Paul Marden: I'd say the fact that you gather together these real families to kind of go and look at the museums that have applied and pass on their feedback to the judges, I think is hugely powerful. Are there any little snippets that the families came back that you liked because there were so many lovely little comments that the families had given to us throughout the awards?Alison Bowyer: Yeah. So I think this quote is one that I think sort of sums it all up, really. The family judge said, “This is one of the most accessible, family friendly and welcoming museums I have ever visited across Britain. Although small compared to city museums, this has a lot to offer and is well laid out. It is very inclusive and their website is a particular strong point in terms of helping people to feel able and welcome to visit. People can visit the museum or attend an event knowing what to expect and what options are available. We especially love the fact that the spot, the mouse activity involved actual exhibits. Often this type of activity utilizes soft toys or pictures that have been placed around the site and end up being a distraction from the collection, meaning families don't get to actually experience the museum and look at the artifacts on display. But this activity in Craving Museum involved looking for things that were part of the carvings and objects. A great way for visitors to get more close to the collection. We all really enjoyed our visit.”Kelly Molson: That's so nice.Paul Marden: That's just brilliant feedback, isn't it?Alison Bowyer: Yeah.Kelly Molson: So nice.Paul Marden: And who would have thought having a website that told you information about the museum that was accessible could actually be of value to people?Alison Bowyer: I know. It's amazing, isn't it?Paul Marden: I know. I wonder who could help you with that.Kelly Molson: Yes, although, full credit, this is not one of our websites, but we definitely could help you with that. This is incredible. What lovely words. We've all got smiles on our faces for people that are listening to the audio of this and can't see us. Jenny, I'd really love to know. We go back to the reason that you entered and, you know, part of that is for the team, it's for the people that have worked really hard to make all of these amazing things happen. What has the impact been for your team since you won this award?Jenny Hill: I think it's just been the real boost that it's given the whole team. Like Alison was saying, everyone on the team really cared about this, know every single member of our team, not just maybe our learning team or our forward facing team, everyone cared about it. And I think it's just really inspired us to carry on with our work. We're all very conscious of the fact that working with families, working with accessibility, is never a finished process. You've not achieved it. So it's kind of really just. Yeah, it's given us that extra push to think, oh, actually, we're doing well in this and we really want to continue. We don't want to sit on our laurels, we don't want to take this for granted. We want to keep working on this. So I think that was really great.Jenny Hill: It was also particularly lovely just to know that it was real families who'd nominated us and that, like were just saying with the undercover judges, it was real families who came to visit us during that judging period and had these positive experiences. So that was just fantastic to know that it was visitors who wanted to sort of recognise the work we've been doing. So, yeah, I think that's been the main thing, really. It's just been amazing being recognised by the sector and our colleagues and given us all that kind of. That boost. Kelly Molson: Yeah. Like a validation of all of the work that gone into it. Jenny Hill: Definitely.Kelly Molson: And what about the impact from kind of general public? Has it had an impact on the visitors that are coming and what they're saying about it and then also the sector itself, you said it's been a good thing to be recognised within the sector.Jenny Hill: So it's definitely had a real impact with our visitors. So we've had some visitors coming to site who've said that they've specifically come because they heard about the Kids in Museum award, which has been amazing. Some people coming from a distance to visit family in the area and saying, “Oh, when I was looking for things to do, I saw that you'd won the award. So I thought while I was visiting I'd pop in.” So that's been incredible, that impact with visitors and our sort of more regular local visitors who've come in, we've got the award up on a shelf behind the front desk. Our front of house team are so proud to have it there behind them while they're working.Jenny Hill: And we've had local visitors saying, “Oh, it's so amazing that our town's got a museum that's won this award and it's really lovely for local people that we've got this here.” So, yeah, that's been really nice for both bringing in new visitors and also for our local audience and then within the sector, it's just been so good for us, publicity wise, to sort of kind of get our name out there, really. So since the awards I've done, I was just counting up the other day, I've had seven different institutions in touch, asking for site visits to come and look at our work, have a chat with us about best practice. I've delivered another seven presentations either already or got them booked in for the rest of the year. And then obviously doing podcasts like this.Jenny Hill: And then we did a blog post as well for Send in Museums with Sam Bowen. I think that's the pipeline, hopefully. So, yeah, it's really kind of boosted us and we even noticed on social media, new institutions following us that maybe weren't aware of us before, after the award, people taking interest. So that's been really nice as a small local museum to have that kind of more bigger awareness from the sector.Kelly Molson: I love this so much. And this goes back to something that comes up time and time again on these podcast interviews is just how collaborative and how supportive the sector is and how much they want to work with each other. It's so lovely that you can now showcase the processes that you've been through and how you approach accessibility and be able to share that with others so that they can go on and do the same and make theirs better and better. Kelly Molson: I think it's so important to be able to do that, and it makes me love this sector so much. It really does. What top tips Jenny, would you give to any museums that are out there thinking, “We really want to enter the awards this year.” What would you say were your best top tips for them?Jenny Hill: This kind of links to something Paul was saying earlier, and it maybe sounds a bit cliched, but just be yourself. I think there's so much amazing work going on in the sector to do with making venues family friendly. And if you're passionate about what you do and you're working hard to make your venue inclusive, then that will shine through. So maybe sometimes not to overcomplicate it. So if you're doing the work and you really care, then that will make itself apparent. But I guess on a more practical level as well. Give yourself time with the application, don't try and rush it. We work very collaboratively at Craven Museum, so we really wanted the opportunity for all of our staff to be able to feed back into the application process and for lots of different people to read the draft, make comments, have their say.Jenny Hill: So by giving ourselves enough time to do that, it really made the process a lot smoother. And also, have a look at the Kids in Museum manifesto. It's a great place to just, if you haven't signed up already, sign up and if you have, just refresh yourself on it, because it can really help that framework for how to answer questions and things.Kelly Molson: Great tips. Thanks, Jenny.Paul Marden: So with that in mind, should we talk about this year's family friendly awards. Nominations Open on 19th March, I think. Is that right, Alison?Alison Bowyer: Yeah, that's right.Paul Marden: So what is it that museums can do to enter?Alison Bowyer: This year we have five categories, so there are three size categories, so best, small, medium and large museums, which will be organised by number of visits in the previous twelve months. That's all explained on our website. I won't go into that now. Then we have a category for the Best Successful Museum, which is the category that Craven won last year. And then our new category for this year is Best Youth Project, and that is a prize for museums who are doing long term, so work longer than six months with young people from the ages of 14 to 25. And what we're really looking for is work, that young people are given a sort of equal share in decision making, that they're really involved in shaping work.Alison Bowyer: And the guidelines for that category, along with all of the others, are in the guidance notes, which you can download from our website. So that would be the first thing to do. Sounds very obvious, read the guidance notes carefully because that should explain most of what you need to know about how to enter. So then there are two routes to entry, really. So what Jenny described, what happened to Craven, that's what happens to most museums. Families will nominate them. So for a family to nominate, they can just go on our website. It's really simple. They just have to tell us the name with the museum they're nominating and in a few sentences why they're nominating them. That's it. And then we will contact the museum and tell them they've been nominated and ask them to fill in the museum side of the application process.Alison Bowyer: We've got lots of tools to help museums promote nominations to families. So we've got social media assets for all channels and we've got some paper forms you can print out and put in your museum if you want to. Then the other alternative is if you want to enter but you for some reason don't have the time or the capacity to collect lots of family nominations, you can just enter as a museum on our website. That's totally fine. You just go on our website and you look at the museum application form. It's not essential to have a family nomination for the small museum and large category, but for the Best Successful Museum, we do ask that at least one family has supported your museum's nomination. Just because we feel for that category, it's super important that the museums are sort of supported by families for the provision that they offer in terms of accessibility. Alison Bowyer: What happens then is once we've got all the nominations together, we put together a shortlist. So the shortlisting panel is made up of. We normally have primary schools, young people from our youth panel, our staff and trustees, and sometimes representatives from museums who've won in the past. We all come together, we pick a shortlist and then we announce that in June. And then if you've been shortlisted over the summer, we will send out families like mystery shopper judges to your museum. So you won't know they're coming, they will just go on a visit and they will report back to us afterwards. And as Jenny says, it's their scores that choose the winners.Alison Bowyer: We don't intervene in any way. We go with whatever the families tell us, so they really are in control. And I think that's one of the lovely things about this award. It is genuinely an award that is given by people who visit museums and then we will announce all the results in October at our award ceremony.Paul Marden: We've talked a little bit about the mystery shoppers, the family judges, the undercover judges going in and actually looking at the museums. And that's how I first found out about Kids in Museums because I saw a sign when I was in the London Transport Museum suggesting that people could go on to nominate and also apply to be an undercover judge, which was how I found out about you first. This is a few years ago now. What can families do, though, if they want to be an undercover judge? Can they get involved?Kelly Molson: Oh, yeah.Alison Bowyer: Absolutely. So the best thing to do is to sign up on our website to our family mailing list. And then when we recruit the judges, which will be from June onwards, we will get in touch with you and let you know whereabouts in the UK. We need judges. It changes every year because we need the judges to be the museums on the shortlist. So it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing that we can't really start until we know where those museums are. But, yeah, the best thing to do is to sign up for our family mailing list.Paul Marden: Yeah. It's such a great opportunity, isn't it, for people to go and have a mission, for the kids to go in and have a mission to go and check these places out and be the ones that decide who gets the award. What a great opportunity for a family to go and find that out.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Don't tell them until they get home, though, because they'll just be shouting that out in the museum.Paul Marden: Do you know who I am?Alison Bowyer: We get lots of families tell us that their kids really enjoy it because they tell them they're, like, having to play detective or something and not be seen. And apparently it makes the day out really fun. So, yeah, it comes recommended.Paul Marden: So there's a call to action for all the families that might be listening to us to join the mailing list and get in there early to become an undercover judge.Alison Bowyer: Yeah. And I should say that we will cover travel expenses for the family judges, up to 30 pounds a visit. So we try to make it as accessible as possible to be a judge.Paul Marden: Completely brilliant opportunity.Kelly Molson: Thank you both for coming on and sharing this with us today. It's been so lovely to hear about it. We are going to put all of the details on how you can enter and how you can sign up to be a family judge as well on the show notes, but essentially go to Kids in Museum's website because they have everything that you need on there. We always ask our guests to leave us with a book recommendation. Something they love or know can be anything, a personal recommendation, a business book. Whatever you like. Jenny, what have you prepared for us today?Jenny Hill: Well, it's probably not one that people haven't heard of before, but I'm a massive Jane Austen fan, so I would always recommend Emma. Emma is probably my favourite by. Yeah, it's one of those ones that I always go back to. So, yeah, if you're thinking about you've never read Jane Austen before, you want to read some classics? I would always recommend that. Yeah, it's a lovely book.Kelly Molson: Oh, it's nice. We get so many people come on and recommend their favourite. Mean something magic about rereading the book over and over again is that you always find out something different every time you read it, regardless of how many times you've read it before. Thank you. Alison, what about you?Alison Bowyer: Gosh, I found it so hard to pick a favourite book. People who aren't watching won't be able to see the bookcase behind me.Kelly Molson: Very full.Paul Marden: Alison looks like a reader for the people that are listening.Alison Bowyer: It's not probably necessarily my favourite book, but a book that I really love by an author who I think deserves to best known in the UK is Standard Deviation by Katherine Heiney. She is absolutely hilarious and it's just a really beautiful portrait of a family living in New York who are all slightly eccentric and unusual in different ways. And I guess I'm really curious and lazy about people's lives. So I love books that kind of open the window onto different kinds of families. And yeah, she's just a wonderful author. All her books are wonderful, but that's my absolute favourite.Kelly Molson: Good recommendation. Thank you. And both of those books have never been recommended before as well, so they will go top of the list on our blog post that we have where we save off all of our guests recommendations. As ever, if you want to win these books, if you head over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with the words I want Alison and Jenny's books, then you'll be in with a chance of winning a copy yourselves. Once again, thank you both for coming on. It's been so lovely to hear about the awards and the impact of winning the awards. Congratulations again on all of your hard work. It's just been wonderful to talk to you. So thank you.Jenny Hill: Thank you very much. It's been lovely speaking to you today.Alison Bowyer: Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure to share the award and some of the other work we do.Paul Marden: And it's got us smiling all the way through, hasn't it, Kelly? It's been a lovely story to tell.Kelly Molson: I hope people can hear that in our voices, that we're smiling. They can hear that we're smiling if they don't watch them, nobody watches our videos. Hey, go and watch our videos.Paul Marden: There you go. See us grinning all the way through smiling.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!

Explore London's Abandoned Underground Stations with Hidden London

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 19, 2024 6:24

Ollie Burton, head of Hidden London at the London Transport Museum, talks with Olivia Living of Insider Travel Report about the experiences offered by Hidden London tours, which showcases dis-used sections of the London Tube system. Burton leads a tour of Charing Cross Station and offers insights into film locations and details on how to book tours. For more information, visit www.ltmuseum.co.uk/hidden-london. If interested, the original video of this podcast can be found on the Insider Travel Report Youtube channel or by searching for the podcast's title on Youtube.

explore hidden underground abandoned burton stations london tube london transport museum insider travel report

Declaration of Independence, Barby Asante (2023) (EMPIRE LINES x Art on the Underground)

EMPIRE LINES

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 19, 2023 14:43

Contemporary artist Barby Asante moves through the London Transport Museum to Stratford Station, coming together with Black women TfL staff to take public space in a collective choral performance, a Declaration of Independence (2023). In 2023, Transport for London (TfL)'s Art on the Underground invited Barby Asante to present a new iteration of her Declaration of Independence, a participation-based work which draws on West African communing traditions. In collaboration with TfL employees, the ensemble vocalise the contemporary experiences of people of colour, and reactivate oft-static historical documents. Barby talks about her time in the photography archives at the London Transport Museum, finding images of women of colour at work in different roles, including those employed by London Transport's direct recruitment in Barbados and the Caribbean in 1956. She details the role of public art, in widening access, and encouraging connections between personal, postcolonial, and migration histories. Plus, Barby shares the many Declarations - many of which are neither written, nor codified - which have influenced her practice, and how the testimonies and collective work has changed on its travels between Berlin, Germany, and Bergen, Norway. Declaration of Independence performed at Stratford Station in London on 17 September 2023, part of Art on the Underground. The visual artworks remain on display at Stratford, Bethnal Green and Notting Hill Green Underground stations. WITH: Barby Asante, London-based artist, educator, and researcher. Her practice and research is concerned with the politics of place, space and the ever-present histories and legacies of slavery and colonialism. ART: ‘Declaration of Independence, Barby Asante (2023)'. SOUNDS: Declaration of Independence Collective. PRODUCER: Jelena Sofronijevic.

Met de Eurostar naar Londen

Spoorcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 1, 2023 66:53

Na het succes van de aflevering vanuit Parijs vorig zijn Arjan, Arno en Elger opnieuw met de internationale trein op pad gegaan voor een locatie-uitzending. In één dag zijn we op en neer geweest naar Londen met de Eurostar en in Londen zelf hebben we ook nog verschillende vormen van spoorvervoer uitgeprobeerd. Onze ervaringen hoor je in deze Spoorcast, maar uiteraard bespreken we ook het laatste nieuws, van de spitsheffing tot de verkoop van onderdelen van Koplopers, en bellen we met onze machinist in opleiding Ed Hol.Linkjes:Artikel van Omroep Zeeland over 150 jaar Zeeuwse Lijn.Het oogstboek van de ICMm.Bericht van het AD over het spoordebat in de Tweede Kamer.Website Eurostar.Artikel van het London Transport Museum over de Elizabeth Line.Volg de Spoorcast op Instagram. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Harnessing potential and creating a great working environment at the Scottish Crannog Centre

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 26, 2023 40:47

EPISODE NOTESSkip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends August 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://crannog.co.uk/https://crannog.co.uk/museum-development/https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-benson-22953833/If you would like to support the Scottish Crannog Centre, please donate via Just Giving page.https://justgiving.com/campaign/crannog Mike Benson is the Managing Director of the Scottish Crannog Centre. Mike spent 28 years in the steel industry before working in museums. Mike left British Steel in 2004 to become Director of Ryedale Folk Museum in North Yorkshire. He then went on to be Director of Bede's World and interim Director at The National Coal Mining Museum For England before starting work as Director in January 2018 at The Scottish Crannog Centre. Mike has a track record of leading organisations through transformational change.Mike lives in The Scottish Borders with partner Kathy and their dog Shadow. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. In today's episode, I speak with Mike Benson, Managing Director of the Scottish Crannog Centre. Mike shares with us the truly unique working environment at the centre and the variety of opportunities they're able to offer young people who struggle with mainstream education.We talk about the devastating fire back in 2021, but all the positivity around building back bigger and stronger than ever. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: All right, Mike, thank you for joining me on the podcast today. It's lovely to see you. It's been a long time since I saw you. I think last year I last saw you speak at an event. Kelly Molson: So I'm delighted that you've been able to give me a little bit of your time today to come on and chat. As ever, I've got some stupid icebreakers to start the podcast with. Right. I know that you've got a dog. What is the stupidest thing that your dog has ever done? Mike Benson: Well, she does it most days. If you don't give her treat or her, she will sit and just stare at the wall with her nose against the wall. If we go anywhere that she doesn't like, she just walks straight up to the wall and just sits and looks at the wall. Kelly Molson: Oh, like a protest. Like, I'm not happy here, protesting? Mike Benson: Yeah, absolutely. At first you feel really bad, but it's one of those protests that wears a bit thin, I'd imagine. But she keeps doing it a bit like a toddler does kind of thing. But she's getting an old dog now, so she's a bit more pronounced now. She will just sort of shift her head up a little bit, waddle over, bang her nose against the wall, and just stare at it until the situation is more to her liking, whatever it is. Kelly Molson: She's a diva. What a diva. It could be worse, though, Mike, couldn't it? Because it could be a dirty protest because some dogs do a bit.Mike Benson: No, she's more intellectual than that. She's Belgian. She's Belgian. So she's quite philosophical and intellectual. Kelly Molson: I like a style. Okay. If you were to participate in karaoke, what would be the song that you would blast out on that microphone? Mike Benson: Take the ribbon from your head, take it loose and let it fall. Hold it soft against my skin like a shadow on a wall. Kelly Molson: Oh, Mike. I did not know we're going to get a rendition. That is amazing. Mike Benson: Pre karaoke. I used to go quite a lot to Beer Colours, where there'd be a guy on an accordion and you would ask him for a request, then you would sing while he played. I don't know if you ever went to them. And that was always my song. So the guy on the accordion, wherever it was, will be playing away now. Can you play? Help me make it through the night and then I would sing it to much acclaim. I can't sing a note, to be honest, but there you go. Kelly Molson: Oh, that was quite delightful, Mike. And if I was not expecting that. Mike Benson: You moved to tears, I can tell. Kelly Molson: This will be the second time that you've moved me to tears, Mike, but for very different reasons. We'll come to that later in the podcast. Right, I want to know what is your unpopular opinion? So something that you hold dear and believe to be true but not many people agree with you on. Mike Benson: Yeah, I've just asked Kathy, my partner, that one, because I couldn't really think of something she was saying. My background was in British Steel. I spent 27 years on the shop floor there, 28 years. And she thinks, one hand, I'm very disciplined and I like everybody to get to work on time and all that boring stuff. On the other hand, I expect everybody to be creative and I don't think that's unpopular or people don't agree, but that's what she's told me that I should say. So I'm going to say that.Kelly Molson: I see you're quite contradictory in that sense. Mike Benson: Yeah, well, in everything. Kelly Molson: Let's get into our chats. There's loads that I want to cover today. You are the Managing Director of the Scottish Crannog Centre. Tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get to where you are now? Mike Benson: I think, as I said, I left school at 16, went straight into the steel works in Middlesbrough where I stayed, and it's where I always wanted to work. Very proud to work there. And my first day in work was maybe 100 lads in there and this great big guy got on the stage and said, "Welcome to Bridge Steel", kind of thing. You're following in the footsteps of giants that have built the world and all this stuff, and I still believe it. So it's it kind of did the trick. So, yeah, and I stayed there and stayed there and loved it. Towards the end of my time, I start to do an Open University degree when I was in my late 30s, just basically so because I could help the kids with the homework and stuff, I suppose. Kelly Molson: Wow. Mike Benson: I don't know anybody from my school that went to university or even to college. We all went to work. So, yeah, that was that. And then doing my stuff for the Open University start to go to get a different idea of what museums could be. Started to realise that nobody was really telling in our story very well, the steelwork story, where I lived, the locality and everything. So we set up a little group around our shift and with a couple of volunteers called Iron Owe AWE, which I thought was quite smart at the time. Kelly Molson: Very Good.Mike Benson: Yeah. And went into schools and we got funding to make films. We did fantastic film with the first strikes, really, with 400 kids all marching down the streets, demanding to only work 8 hours a day and all the rest of it, which was really great. Mike Benson: Anyway, to cut long story short, we'd been asked to go down to London. We'd won this award, which was really funny because we had a few beers on the train going down and we get to London to go to the Strand where we'd won this Roots and Wings award. Beat loads of posh museums and the guy in the door would let us in because we didn't look like museum people and there was no more. He thought we're just trying to plug in for the wine or whatever. So I turned to a phone box. There was no well, mobile phones wrote, but I didn't have one early days and to ring the lady up and say, “Your man on the door won't let us in.” We're not the right type.Kelly Molson: Amazing. So you never really fitted the traditional museum mold. Mike Benson: And it's still exactly the same fully enough. And on the back of that, on the way home, we got back early doors, and I was six till one shift. And when I got in, there was a message on the phone from the National Park. North York Moose National Park. Just asking me if I was interested in applying the director of Ridell Fort Museum, which is a rural museum in the North York moors. So I went for it, don't know why, and got the job. I don't know how. Then I had the big decision whether to leave all my friends that we'd been to each other's 18th, 21st, weddings, all the rest of it. That was a huge decision. I always remember I only ever had one good bus at British Steel. Mike Benson: All the buses were crap, but I went in to see him, guy I really trusted, and he just said, "You've got to go, there's thousands of lads here that would chuck the right arm off to do a job like that." And I went over to the museum and there you go. That's how I kind of ended up in this sector, really. Kelly Molson: That's amazing. And it literally all came from you going back to do an Open University course to help your kids. It wasn't necessarily about you and a new career and changing your part. Mike Benson: No last thing in my head. Kelly Molson: I think that's really motivating to hear because I think a lot of people think that by the time you're 30, you should have it all together. Mike Benson: I'm 60 and I can go together.Kelly Molson: 45, no clue. But do you know what I mean? I think that there's a lot of people out there that kind of by that point they think, “Well, you should have your career sorted by then. You should know what your trajectory is and what you're doing”. And it just goes to show that there's an opportunity to change your life whenever you decide to. Mike Benson: Yeah, you need look, I think you need a lot of look. I've been lucky in that sense, I think, as I say, and my plant is still going, so I would be retired now, which is a bit of a reflection on a bad decision made now, looking back. There you go. And it was a completely bloody h***, completely different world. I'd never met a vegetarian before, ever. Kelly Molson: So culturally it took you into a place that was so far from what you know.Mike Benson: Yeah, I was lucky enough to I've been doing the job about a year or so and I was lucky enough to win a Claw Fellowship, which is like a high level training thing, they send you around the world and all sorts. It's brilliant. I went and stayed with a fantastic guy, a First Nation Canadian chief on the Pacific Coast. Anyway, but I'd gone to this place and again I got to this really posh spot down in Kent near Seven Oaks and said, “I'm in the right place”. And the lady said, "I don't think so". I'd driven all the way down Milan Bretta with sidecar, so that was interesting. And we'd gone out for a meal somewhere, myself and the other Claw fellows, and we had a bit of a chord thing going on. Mike Benson: I think when I was at British Steel, where if you were a little bit skinned, if you'd gone out for a drink or for meal or whatever you would say you'd pay with your credit card and the ladder would think, “Oh, bloody Ollie skinned”. So we'd all chip in. Anyway, I goes for this meal and my fellow Claw fellows at the end of night all put the credit cards on the table and I thought, bloody h***, everybody skinned. So I ended up paying for offering to pay the bill, which I did, which then left me skinned and then I cut and done. That was just the way things were because again, you would never use your credit card. It was just like something that you very rarely would use, but in the real world, everybody uses their credit cards all the time. Kelly Molson: What a brilliant story. Mike Benson: Yeah. And another one is when I first went into the an interior deal, there was a guy there and I'd asked him to do something and he said, "No, it's not my job". And at British Steel you were kind of saying, "I'm going to give you 5 minutes to think about it, I'm going to send you home". So I give him his 5 minutes and I sent him home. And then I had a gaggle of trustees coming in about an hour later saying, "What you doing?” “Listen, I give him his 5 minutes and I sent him home". And they were like, "what?"Kelly Molson: Doesn't work like that here? Mike Benson: What planet did you come from? Kelly Molson: Wow. So you changed your life. And then you went through quite a lot of crisis learning experiences.Mike Benson: Yeah, to learn a whole new lexicon. And after so long, I thought it just be yourself. Kelly Molson: Absolutely. I think you're absolutely right, because you bring something quite magic to everywhere that you go, and I've seen that from the way that you've spoken and the way that other people have spoken about you. Right. Let's talk about the Crannog. Let's talk about the Crannog Centre. So you're the Managing Director of the Scottish Crannog. So you're the Managing Director of the Scottish Crannog Centre. What's a Crannog for our audience that are listening? What is a Crannog? Mike Benson: Well, I've googled it. Kelly Molson: So did I, Mike. Mike Benson: I Googled it because it is many things to many different people. I Googled it and it's an artificial island that people might have lived on. It might have been a wooden structure. So basically, particularly in Scotland and in Ireland, you'll see as you're going around the lochs, you'll see little clumps of stone in the middle of the loch or to one side with a tree in or something. And at some point that would have been an artificial island that somebody made into a dwelling. So I think if you Google it yeah, for Rose and interestingly, after the fire, it's a symbol of home, it's a symbol of community, it's a symbol of what can be achieved. The engineering was unbelievable. The joinery skills were unbelievable. The candunas, you think two and a half thousand years ago. Mike Benson: It must have been bloody freezing and everybody was sat in a cave and all this stuff. And actually there they were building these beautiful homes, places, whatever, and there could be places of prestige and what have you. But there were a home and inside there they will have been playing a seven stringed musical instrument. We've got evidence of that in the collection. They will have been trading with this is before Brexit, they were trading with Europe, which is a continent that's very near to was just over the water, that's really easy to trade with, used to be. So all that stuff, and it's become a place where everybody can contribute, everybody can learn a skill and kind of inspired by that notion, whether it's romantic or not, that everybody has a part to play. And that's how you get a flourishing community. Kelly Molson: Just for our listeners who may not have visited or you may not know what the Crannog. Just for our listeners who may not have visited or you may not know what the Crannog Centre is for. What is the Crannog Centre's purpose? Has it been created to kind of showcase? Mike Benson: Yes, it's literally on the straight level if you like. To tell the stories of the crown of dwellers, the day to day lives of what the best we can. We don't know exactly. That's the beauty of it. Half of what we say is based on certainty, the other half is based on opinion, because we can only go on the evidence that we have a number of archaeologists at work, and you get three archaeologists, you get four theories and it's like that every day and constant learning that goes on. So on that level, it's to tell a story of those kind of dwellers from two and a half thousand years ago. But also, I think, to be relevant for today, to look at sustainability, to look at the learning opportunities that people have. Mike Benson: We have a thing on the wall at work where we put on the questions that the public have asked that week. One of them was from a little girl asking how far the Christmas would get in because there isn't a chimney. Kelly Molson: Good question. Mike Benson: Yeah, the best one was but bearing in mind we employ 23 people, are you all related? Kelly Molson: Wow. Is that because it all feels like a family or is it all yeah, you all bitter like a family, maybe.Mike Benson: Yeah. But we kind of rub along and get there and we all cover each other's backsides and we work really hard or try to, but yeah. Kelly Molson: That's a nice question. Mike Benson: I'm hoping it was done in the right way. Kelly Molson: I love that. So I can remember very vividly. It was the 16 June and I was on a webinar which was for ASVA members, and you came onto the webinar and shared the news of what had just happened. And I genuinely was so moved that I had to switch my camera off and have a little cry. It was a really difficult thing to watch you talk about. I can only imagine what you were feeling at that point. But would you be able to just take us back and explain what happened on the I think it was the morning of the 16th, wasn't it? The early hours of the 16th or the evening? Mike Benson: Yeah, it was just a couple of days before then. I'm still a bit raw and I was in two months whether to do that call, really, but I didn't realise I thought, yeah, I'll just go and tell them about a fire. But I didn't really yes, it's still quite raw when I think about it. Kelly Molson: Can imagine. Mike Benson: So at 11:00 at night when you look at the CCTV, there's a little tiny glow inside the Crannog and then by 6 minutes past it's gone. And Rich, one of the assistant directors there, drank me up hours in bed, asleep, rang up and said, "Mike, the Crannog's on fire". And I said, "Yeah, that's fine, I'll sort out in the morning", went back to sleep and he rang me back again. " "Mike, Mike, it's really on fire." And I could hear all the fire engines and everything going behind him. So of course I raced down. By the time I got there, it was gone. I think there was five fire engines, lots of police and all the rest of it. And yeah, it was quite difficult. The chair of trustees was there, he was bereft, he got there before me, obviously, lots of tears. Mike Benson: There was a couple of members of staff who'd locked themselves in the car, were crying. So basically we made a few calls, got everybody on site round about half one in the morning, I think at night, so it's still black and the lights are still flashing. I just said to everybody, "You know what, nobody's been hurt. Thank our lucky stars nobody's been hurt. We're going to do exactly what the crown of dwellers would have done. We're going to pack up our things, which froze is the collection, the precious things that they've left for us, and we're going to move". And I exaggerate this a little bit, but the reality was, on the following morning at 09:00, we sat there and we had no money, we had no plan, we didn't quite know what was going to happen. Mike Benson: By about half ten that morning, were starting to have a plan and we'd fortunately had already, through a community asset transfer, which is where a community group can make an application to local authority or to the government to buy something at a reduced price. We'd already bought the new site on the other side of the loch through community asset transfer. Kelly Molson: Amazing. Mike Benson: And by the second day, I think over 50,000 had come into the just given page. Kelly Molson: It was an incredible outpouring of community spirit, wasn't it? The support that you got was I mean, it was local, national.Mike Benson: Yeah. Yeah. People ringing in to offer volunteer time, money coming in. We had the politicians involved. We were charged by Scottish government, not straight away. After a couple of bit of time, maybe a week or so, were asked to try and come up with a plan that was realistic, that wouldn't cost too much, that would get the organisation away, it wouldn't be the full monty, but it would get us up and running. We presented that plan to Scottish government and they've agreed to support us, as have other trust foundations and everybody else. So we've started work on the new site, March. So in less than two years, we've got through planning, which anybody knows we're planning isn't easy, and even though they were sympathetic, they had their protocols to go through. Mike Benson: We raised the money, we hit January this year and were a little bit short because of everything that's gone up with inflation filled that funding gap and we're hoping to open in November. Kelly Molson: That is magic. I think what we have to remember as well is this was happening still during while the Pandemic was going on. So this was 2021 that this happened. So were still in a position of places not being fully open, still having all of that own kind of personal impact that were struggling with, as well as having something like this happen. I can see it in your eyes now. I can hear it when you're talking. The emotion about that day is still kind of with you. Kelly Molson: You hold it still there, but the way that you were able to, the very next day have a plan in place is testimony to, I think, yourself and the people that you have surrounding you and how much they love that centre that you've been able to kind of come back so quickly and make this happen. Mike Benson: Yeah, I mean, we opened four days after the fire, obviously with no crown of a bit like the Van Gogh Museum without any Van Goghs, and we didn't think we'd get many visitors, and they just powered in. Kelly Molson: Amazing. That's the power of telling great stories, Mike. People still want to come. Mike Benson: Yeah, that's all it is. Without getting my little hobby horse. Maybe it goes back to the earlier question about your opinion. I think museums still have a long way to go, really, in how they work. And it's just really simple, really. Just you're telling a good story that people want to listen to and hear, and we kind of do that best we can. Kelly Molson: Yeah, no, you really do. Mike Benson: We're a little bit wonky on the edges, but that's allowed. Kelly Molson: That's what people love. That's what people love. I think that there's such a level of authenticity about how you speak and the way that you do things. And that's, for me, what I find really engaging. Kelly Molson: I saw you speak last year at the Scottish Tourism Alliance conference. I think it was last November. No, it really was slick, but I really enjoyed it. So Mike did a really clever thing, so he was billed as the speaker, but he actually got other people to speak for him, which I thought was genius. I'm going to use that at some point whenever I'm asked to speak. But it was great. You spoke about the Crannog Centre, but you talked about how you've harnessed potential and created this really great working environment. And you've done that by building a really diverse workforce and volunteers and people that come along and just help and support you. And I think it is such an amazing story. Kelly Molson: You have a lot of young people that come and work and volunteer at centre while they were speaking for you and sharing their experience of working there. I was just blown away by all of the amazing opportunities that you can offer them. Like, bear in mind, this is a relatively small centre that we're talking about. We're not talking about the VNA, we're not talking about the London Transport Museum here. The variety of what those youngsters can do there and what they can learn and what they can be part of is incredible. And I think you help a lot of youngsters that are struggling with mainstream education by offering them a different way of learning, a different way of being involved with things. And talk to us about how you've managed to create this incredible working environment. Mike Benson: Yeah. Again, I think I can't take any credit for it, really. It's kind of what I grew up with as well. When you went into somewhere, there was quite a diverse workforce that worked in British Steel or wherever. Part of the learning and part of your reflections are certainly within the task of what a museum is. If you want to engage with diverse audiences, you need to have a diverse workforce. People need to be able to come into that museum and see people like themselves, not just there, but actually having agency, being able to make decisions, being leaders, being able to flourish, being able to be themselves. We talk about freedom of self, that ability to really be yourself at work. Another word kind of made up is that feltness. Mike Benson: We call it feltness, where people can just come in and feel that there's something there that they can just feel there's love or hard work or graft or academic rigor or all of those things thrown into the pot. And that diversity is that you can feel it. And again, time and time again, when people come and we ask them what the feedback is, they can just feel something there that they can't quite put the finger on. So we called it feltness. Kelly Molson: It was a lovely way of defining it, but that's a really hard thing to create. Like, how do you create that? I guess it's a mixture of the people and the characters that you have working there and the things that they can do and the things that they are allowed to do, I guess the autonomy that you give them. Mike Benson: Yeah. And being aspirational and wanting to be the best that we can be. So I think that notion of creativity aligned to discipline, that unleashing of folks, we're all hemmed in nowadays by all kinds of barriers, and we're kind of shuffled along, I don't know, like, through amaze almost, and sometimes almost uncontrollably, we end up somewhere. I just think to be able to just break all that down and just start again is no bad thing. And so that's what we've tried to do with the Crannog Centre there and take that inspiration, as I said, from that notion of a community that could flourish. Everybody must be able to contribute. Kelly Molson: How have you done that? Did you set out in your mind when you went to the Crannog Centre? Did you set out and go, "This is what I want. I want to be able to offer all of these different experiences to young people who are struggling with mainstream education?" Or is this something that's just kind of happened naturally, that you've attracted people? How have you set out to kind of do it? Mike Benson: Yeah, that we set out to do it that way. So my interviewer said we would set up an apprenticeship program where we'd set up blah, blah, create a framework for success and depends what you call success, whether it's footfall, whether it's donations, people making donations, whether it's how much you sell in the shop, whatever that your success measures are. So each of the museum that have been that, we've done something similar with the apprenticeship program, with the diversity, and I think here we've managed to take all the learning of what we've done so far, if you like, and put it all into practice and it doesn't always work. And sometimes you think to yourselves, go up and much easy just to get a load of. We interviewed some folks that were getting a craft fellow funded through Hess. Mike Benson: That's somebody who's going to learn traditional skills. And the amount of young people that came to that with two degrees and a masters and a half a PhD and stuff, I just think it must be really hard to get your break into this game, into the museum world, if we can create different routes and that. I was asked by trustees, "What would make you happy in ten years time?" And I said, "For one of the apprentices to be the director."Kelly Molson: That's lovely. Mike Benson: And I think having that approach, I think and it happens in business all the time, I think the museum is still stuck around hierarchy and prestige and a certain type of knowledge and a certain type of person. But, yeah, I think that's kind of where were going with that. Kelly Molson: That's really lovely. But you are a small team, right, Mike? There's not thousands of people at this museum that help you do this. So what you've been able to achieve with the relatively small team is incredibly impressive. Who heads up the program? Is that you? Who defines what the kind of apprenticeship program looks like and the structure? Mike Benson: Yeah, I kind of keep my paws out with that, really. I'm really good at talking, a good job. I don't actually do anything. Kelly Molson: You're a leader, Mike. Mike Benson: No, honestly, I'm not good at anything. I am not good at anything. Kathy, my partner, will say I can't put a screw in the wall or anything and I'm literally no good at anything. But, yeah, I think we just create an environment and again, we get bogged down with business planning and all that all the time. I did a talk to some community groups the other day and I just used the image of a sunflower, because quite often you'll consultants who come and say, you need that business plan, it needs to be really hard. And yet a sunflower doesn't really have much of a business plan. It just follows the sun and soaks it all up and grows where it's best. And I think just sometimes you can be a bit too.Mike Benson: All I was saying to him is than these folks in town to get stuffed if they think it's nonsense. So I think, yeah, I'm what Lenos? I always do. I think it's just as I say, create an environment. And it's really hard. It's much harder to create that environment than it will be to have a straight structure. Straight, linear. You report to him, you report to him, nothing happens until he's signed that off. So it's chaos. It's bloody chaos. Kelly Molson: But is that partly because you're not asking people to come in and fit your mold, you're almost asking them to come in and then you're flexing your mold to how they need to grow and adapt. Mike Benson: So you've got wobbling all the time. Yes, it really is. And it's not for everybody. It's really hard. So it's not for everyone, particularly those trained within the museum profession, that likes straight lines. It's really hard. Or anybody that likes to work in duchess museums in general, it's not for everyone, some folks to come and work with us, and it doesn't work for everyone because they want to see that comfort, really. It's that comfort of that straight line and somebody's going to tell me what to do. I have no clue what's happening at work half the time. Not when they say, we decided to do this. All right, this guy's turned up, he's going to do this. Smashing. Kelly Molson: But that takes a lot to be that flexible, though, doesn't it? Like you say, sometimes as humans, we kind of like a plan. We like to see the trajectory, we like to see what the next step is, and not being able to see that is uncomfortable for a lot of us. So to have an organisation that's so fluid, that's not for everybody at all, you have to be quite I think you've got to be quite a special person to be able to lead an organisation that is structured like that. Mike Benson: Hence the baggy eyes. Kelly Molson: Yes. What does the future look like for the Crannog Centre? So you've had a grant from Scottish government and it's being rebuilt on the new site, which is directly across the loch from where? Mike Benson: Twelve times bigger. We're building it as a nine edge village as well. So we're doing it the wrong way around, kind of. Instead of building the Crannog, first, we'll build a nine edge village. So what's next is we'll try and get that done. This was always project one. As I said, we needed to have something that would get us up and running. And then Project Two will be to build a proper museum. So at one end of Scotland's most powerful river lies the VNA in Dundee, and at the other end of Scotland's most powerful river, Batte, will I our new museum as well. As we go into Project Two, hopefully the deeper sense of belonging in more heft he says, “Don't quote me on that.”Mike Benson: And it will be a different type because I think the VNA will probably be one of the last of the big concrete, super duper designed museums. Not critical at all. I think as the world's moved on to a more stable models, there'd be maybe a different approach to how public buildings like that are built in the future. So that's what's coming next, if you like. Whether I'm still there to do that or not, who knows? Kelly Molson: Well, one of your apprentices will be director by then, probably, if you get your way. What does that look like in terms of time frames, though? So what are we looking at in terms of the new centre being open across on the other side of the loch? Mike Benson: So we hopefully going to do a soft opening in November. So it's all about, as I've said, home and feeling safe and being yourself. So that opening will be potentially we'll have the Mary Hills Refugee Choir there, we'll have bands there and everything else. And we may be looking at how we can have on the old site some instruments there and some instruments. And now we're sad. And they talk to each other across the loch. Kelly Molson: That's lovely. Yeah. To share the stories of the older and the new. Mike Benson: And then the log boat will probably come along with a torch and all that sort of stuff. Anyway, everybody's talking of different things. We'll pull it all together. So, soft opening in November and then we'll go larger. Kelly Molson: And you talked a little bit earlier about sustainability, is that right? I think I read this is that the centre is aiming for its new incarnation to become Scotland's most sustainable museum. Not just about carbon count, but about the kind of the craft and the skills and the sustainability of materials. Is that about how it's being built and constructed, as well as what you do there? Mike Benson: Yes. So we've got some brilliant folks on site now. So we've got Julie, Laura, Jordy, who are women carpenters who are working away Chaz again, carpenter. Jim, our Stormwall builder, and then Brian, our Thatcher, will be joining us once he's finished the job up north. And while they're there, they're sharing the plan. Is that all those skills? Oh, I forgot him. Ash. He's building our he's built the first one up. It's a hazel, six meter high hazel roundhouse. It's gorgeous. He's nearly finished that working with Nelly. Anyway, give him all the name check. So the idea being that those skills are shared across the Crannog team. So in future years. The idea is that the Iron Age village that we're building now, the buildings were only ever intended to last seven years, ish seven to ten years. Mike Benson: Then they'll go back into the earth and the caym across the road is a hill called Drummond Hill. And that's where we'll be starting to copies to grow the materials that we need to build these. So we employ Yein, the copieser and we'll have Jenny, the forest gardener. So all the materials and the timbers, the stone, the reed for the thatch the heather is all within walking distance of a crown of dweller.Kelly Molson: This seven year cycle is that what would have happened back then?Mike Benson: So yeah you entered the coppers in cycle you see I'm no expert on this, it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, I don't. However Ian the copies guy does and Jenny the forest gardener does. So within the forestry land services are taking out the large disease come in the hill opposite hopefully we'll take over some of that land where we will copy some and start to plant the materials that we need for the future. Hazel seven years then the York and everything else will take a bit longer but in years to come that'll be totally sustainable and you literally will cross the road and take a tree down and build a building out of it. Kelly Molson: That is magic, isn't it? That is really.Mike Benson: And that's what's happening now. So the timbers that are coming on site are within walking distance and the buildings that are going up is all the stone is just locally sourced, everything's just from over the road. And that requires a different skill set. Rather than just getting a timber from Norway or something from juicens, learning how to use local, local materials and making these buildings stay up and stand up and all that sort of stuff is a task in itself.Kelly Molson: For me, it's that idea of those crafts never dying as well. We don't want that guy to be the last copieser. No those skills have to be transferred in a way that they are shared with the younger generation. I'm thinking about my two year old one day how lovely would it be to come and bring her and show her the way that people used to build houses back in the day and we don't forget those things, that's what's important.Mike Benson: And the fact that you can make a living out of it. So when people come to see us they are supporting, keeping all that alive and that's part of thinking around that will take the buildings that we're building now down in seven or eight years time because that's how you'll learn to build them again. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I guess of course because then the new people can learn, they've learned their skills, can learn to go through all of that process.Mike Benson: And the apprentices that are there now learning will be the ones that are teaching. Kelly Molson: Yeah that's really cool. Mike Benson: It's an old model but it's just how it is.Kelly Molson: And in a way you forget the simplicity of that, don't you? You just forget. Mike Benson: Yeah and then within that sustainability as well if we become the sort of organisation that people want to partner with and work alongside and also a place that people want to visit and support so you've got the skills, materials, those four elements and then we think that will create a sustainable model. Kelly Molson: What more help do you need, Mike? So you've had a grant from Scottish government, you've had a huge outpouring of support from the general public when we had the fire. Kelly Molson: You mentioned a little while ago about a funding gap. Obviously, cost of living crisis has probably affected that, the rising cost of materials, et cetera. What can we do to help you? Or is there still a live kind of go funding part that we can all go? Mike Benson: You can still go onto our website and donate and I understand how hard it is for everybody just now as well, by the way. So we are still writing little applications here, there and everywhere just to try and cover those final bits. And it's really hard because what we've tried to do, what we could have done is just close the current site, build the, you know, get the main contractors gone in and put the drains in and the car parks and all that stuff in then we could. But we tried to keep everybody employed and keep the apprenticeship going and everything else and that's been quite a challenge. Mike Benson: Obviously we haven't got a Crannog even though we're still getting we've improved our visitor figures to last year, just but it's really hard without that central point and the old site is looking tired, which is where we always intended to move. So I think if anybody did want to help us in that way, that would be great. And also just share the word, really, and just tell folks to come and visit us if they can. That's the best way to help. Just paying your seven pound to come in and see us and just be part of it and keep a little bit of that love in your heart when you leave. Kelly Molson: Oh, Mike, you're going to make me cry. This will be the first time that you've got me. We are going to share in the show notes to this episode. We're going to share all the ways that you can still support the Scottish Crannog Centre. So we'll put a link to the website, we'll put a link to the donation portals and yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think it's all about just encouraging people to go along. Seven pounds is not a huge entrance fee to go and experience some of these things that you will never have seen anywhere else. You might learn about a craft that you might never see anywhere else. That's not a huge amount to ask for people. So please dig deep if you can and help them create something that is going to be truly transformational for generations to come. Kelly Molson: Not just for people that visit it, but for the people that go there and do these apprenticeship schemes and learn the trades and develop themselves into something that their wildest dreams couldn't have imagined. They could have achieved. Mike, thank you for sharing today. I'm so grateful of everyone that comes on to talk to me on the podcast, but your story really did touch me. I was eight months pregnant at that time, Mike. I'm not going to lie, I probably would have dropped, probably would have cried if the dog had come in here and looked at me funny. But you did break me that day and it's really lovely to hear all the positive things that have happened since then and all of the good things that are happening. Right, what about a book? Kelly Molson: We always ask our guests to come on and share a book that they love with our audience. Can be anything you like. Mike Benson: Well, because I am a museum director and an academic, I'm going to go for the Thursday Murder Club series. Kelly Molson: I knew this was not going to be a business book, Mike. Mike Benson: No, I've not planned them all. See, a book with leadership on it. I don't know if you've read any of them, but Elizabeth, Joyce, Ron and Abraham are just so stupid and funny and English and gentle. It's just lovely. So I've been plowing my way through all those I mean, the plots are way for thin the whole thing's nonsense, but it's just really good stuff to kind of remind you what human beings are. Kelly Molson: Yeah, a lovely good escapism as well, aren't they, those books. They are great. Well, as ever, listeners, if you want to win a copy of Mike's book, you know what to do. Go over to our Twitter account and hit the retweet button with the message, I want Mike's book. And we'll put you into the prize drawer to win a book. And that is for the last time this season, because this is the last podcast of this season, which is crazy. We've had so many guests on, so many amazing stories, so many initiatives that have been shared with us and so many learnings that I've personally taken away. Thank you all for listening. Kelly Molson: We will be back again in September after we've had a little summer break, because, let's face it, you are going to be way too busy for podcasts over the summer, visiting, having all of your guests visit. So, Mike, thank you again. It has been an absolute pleasure. I'm really glad that you came on the podcast and you didn't send somebody else to come and do the podcast.Mike Benson: I was in two minds.Kelly Molson: Brilliant. Thank you for coming on. Like we said, we're going to put all of the details on how you can still help the Crannog Centre into the show notes today. Mike, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Mike Benson: You'll take care now.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

SD25: Famous Sliding Doors Moments

Play Episode Listen Later May 4, 2023 30:53

Sliding Doors 25, in partnership with TfL, is a four-part series that delves into the iconic film's backstory. Speaking with cast and crew about their very own ‘Sliding Doors' moments alongside a behind-the-scenes look at the making of this iconic 90s movie classic, 25 years after its release. In our final episode of the series we take it back to our roots and delve into some amazing Sliding Doors Moments…..not only do we hear from the cast and crew but celeb fans Laura Whitmore, Steven Bartlett, Bradley Walsh and Rachel Stevens discuss their sliding doors moments and love of the film. And we reflect on the impact the film has made to our everyday culture, 25 years on! This series is in partnership with TfL. 2023 marks the 160th anniversary of the Tube. TfL and the London Transport Museum are delivering a programme of activities throughout the year to celebrate London Underground's role as the lifeblood of the city. Keep your eyes peeled for activities throughout the year and how you can celebrate with TfL. Thanks to Mags Creative, a podcast production and promotion company, for their support and a special thanks to Pulama Kaufman in bringing this show to life. Thank you to Tim Lammers, movie critic and journalist for his use of interview clips in the series. @slidingdoorspod Hosted by: @jenbecks28 Episode Guests: Peter Howitt, John Hannah, Philippa Braithwaite, Jeanne Tripplehorn, John Smith, David Hirschfelder, Laura Whitmore, Steven Bartlett, Rachel Stevens, Bradley Walsh and Lucie Cave.

speaking tube john smith london underground sliding doors steven bartlett tfl john hannah laura whitmore jeanne tripplehorn bradley walsh rachel stevens london transport museum mags creative

SD25: The Release and Theory of Sliding Doors

Play Episode Listen Later May 3, 2023 24:54

Sliding Doors 25, in partnership with TfL, is a four-part series that delves into the iconic film's backstory. Speaking with cast and crew about their very own ‘Sliding Doors' moments alongside a behind-the-scenes look at the making of this iconic 90s movie classic, 25 years after its release. In this episode we take it back to the film's release and its premiere at the Sundance Film festival and how it felt to finally be released into the world. We also delve into the cultural moment when the term came to life- and the theories around parallel lives and the multiverse….we hear from our cast and crew about their beliefs and how the heart of the film really is a story of love and fate and of course some BTS audio footage from the set of the film! This series is in partnership with TfL. 2023 marks the 160th anniversary of the Tube. TfL and the London Transport Museum are delivering a programme of activities throughout the year to celebrate London Underground's role as the lifeblood of the city. Keep your eyes peeled for activities throughout the year and how you can celebrate with TfL Thanks to Mags Creative, a podcast production and promotion company, for their support and a special thanks to Pulama Kaufman in bringing this show to life. Thank you to Tim Lammers, movie critic and journalist for his use of interview clips in the series. @slidingdoorspod Hosted by: @jenbecks28 Episode Guests: Peter Howitt, John Hannah, Philippa Braithwaite, Jeanne Tripplehorn, John Smith and David Hirschfelder

speaking theory bts tube john smith london underground sliding doors tfl john hannah jeanne tripplehorn sundance film london transport museum mags creative

SD25: The Iconic Sliding Doors Moment

Play Episode Listen Later May 2, 2023 36:04

Sliding Doors 25, in partnership with TfL, is a four-part series that delves into the iconic film's backstory. Speaking with cast and crew about their very own ‘Sliding Doors' moments alongside a behind-the-scenes look at the making of this iconic 90s movie classic, 25 years after its release. In this episode we unpick THE Sliding Doors moment when Gwyneth Paltrow runs to catch the tube and find out all about how this was created. We speak to the cast about their experiences on set, favourite scenes and discuss THAT haircut that defined the 90s. We find out about the process of GP playing and portraying two different contrasting lives in the film and of course some BTS audio footage from the set of the film! This series is in partnership with TfL. 2023 marks the 160th anniversary of the Tube. TfL and the London Transport Museum are delivering a programme of activities throughout the year to celebrate London Underground's role as the lifeblood of the city. Keep your eyes peeled for activities throughout the year and how you can celebrate with TfL Thanks to Mags Creative, a podcast production and promotion company, for their support and a special thanks to Pulama Kaufman in bringing this show to life. Thank you to Tim Lammers, movie critic and journalist for his use of interview clips in the series. @slidingdoorspod Hosted by: @jenbecks28 Episode Guests: Peter Howitt, John Hannah, Philippa Braithwaite, Jeanne Tripplehorn, John Smith and David Hirschfelder

speaking iconic gp bts tube gwyneth paltrow john smith london underground sliding doors tfl john hannah jeanne tripplehorn london transport museum mags creative

SD25: The Origin of the Film Sliding Doors

Play Episode Listen Later May 1, 2023 32:15

Sliding Doors 25, in partnership with TfL, is a four-part series that delves into the iconic film's backstory. Speaking with cast and crew about their very own ‘Sliding Doors' moments alongside a behind-the-scenes look at the making of this iconic 90s movie classic, 25 years after its release. In this episode of Sliding Doors 25 we delve into where the film's idea came from - in a Sliding Doors moment writer and director Peter Howitt had, that planted the whole seed. We chat to the cast and crew including John Hannah and Jeanne Tripplehorn about the casting and early days of making the film…and discuss how the whole film nearly wasn't made and had its own Sliding Doors moment! We also chat to TfL about the making of the movie and filming on the underground and of course some BTS audio footage from the set of the film! This series is in partnership with TfL. 2023 marks the 160th anniversary of the Tube. TfL and the London Transport Museum are delivering a programme of activities throughout the year to celebrate London Underground's role as the lifeblood of the city. Keep your eyes peeled for activities throughout the year and how you can celebrate with TfL Thanks to Mags Creative, a podcast production and promotion company, for their support and a special thanks to Pulama Kaufman in bringing this show to life. Thank you to Tim Lammers, movie critic and journalist for his use of interview clips in the series. @slidingdoorspod Hosted by: @jenbecks28 Episode Guests: Peter Howitt, John Hannah, Philippa Braithwaite, Jeanne Tripplehorn and Kate Reston

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Developing a culture of innovation, with Elizabeth McKay

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 25, 2023 39:26

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends July 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/https://twitter.com/McKayElihttps://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethmckay1/ Elizabeth McKay is an award-winning creative leader with experience in heritage, public-service broadcasting, and commercial advertising. She joined London Transport Museum as Chief Operating Officer in September 2018 to lead the design and delivery of its future vision. Elizabeth is an active Trustee and Deputy Chair of Kids in Museums, an independent charity dedicated to making museums open and welcoming to families, and a member of the Insights Council supporting the English National Opera. Elizabeth was previously Chief Learning Officer at Historic Royal Palaces, where she developed a new strategy that doubled the reach with new audiences. Her large-scale events and activities were recognised for excellence in the sector with awards including from Museum + Heritage and Learning Technologies. Before that, Elizabeth was the Head of BBC Knowledge Campaigns and an Executive Producer. Her projects won a Webby, Peabody, Children's Bafta and a Royal Television Society Education Award for Best Campaign. Elizabeth had a successful career working on leading brands at Grey Advertising in London and New York. Elizabeth holds a BA in English and American Literature and Language from Harvard University and an MBA from Oxford's Graduate School of Business. She lives in London with her husband and two children and enjoys taking part in the many rich cultural experiences that London offers. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. These chats are fun, informative, and hopefully always interesting. In today's episode, I speak with Elizabeth McKay, Chief Operating Officer at the London Transport Museum. Elizabeth shares how else LTM has developed a culture of innovation and how creative and entrepreneurial ideas are encouraged and supported at the museum. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on itunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Elizabeth, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's lovely to see you. Elizabeth McKay: This is really exciting. I wasn't sure when you asked me to do this, but it would all be about but now we're here. Kelly Molson: It's going to be wonderful, Elizabeth. But first, as ever, I have to ask you some ice breaker questions, because that is the rule of the podcast. Elizabeth McKay: I understand. Kelly Molson: Okay, so if you could be anywhere in the world right now, where would you choose to be? Elizabeth McKay: Oh, on top of a ski mountain, no question. Kelly Molson: Oh, you're this is fabulous. We're recording this in the run up to Christmas listeners, and it is snowy in London, so this is fabulous for you. Elizabeth McKay: London does not have the slopes or the incline that I would like, and the powder does not remain on the ground for long enough. Kelly Molson: And let's face it, trudging through London in the snow is not like being at the top of a mountain skiing down it, is it? Elizabeth McKay: No, it's not as beautiful as it might be walking around my local cemetery before it melts. Not the same. Kelly Molson: Okay, good. So would you rather travel back in time to meet your ancestors or go to the future to meet your descendants? Elizabeth McKay: That's a really good question. I probably want to do both. I'd like to go back in time because some of my ancestors travelled across the plains in America in covered wagons, and I think that just slightly blows my mind. They even took English antiques with them. It just doesn't seem right. All that pain they went through. The future would be really good, too. Oh, my God. Kelly Molson: That is absolutely fascinating. Elizabeth McKay: It's part of our lore.Kelly Molson: And I love that you've come full circle, as though they trust you all the way over there and you've trusted all the way back. Elizabeth McKay: I know. Yeah. I don't know how they feel about that, but I'm making the eastward migration. Kelly Molson: All right, as I mentioned, we are recording this just in the run up to Christmas. So what one thing would you most like to achieve in 2023? Elizabeth McKay: Well, we're working on our five year strategy right now, so I'd probably most like to land that, be very clear about our forward direction of travel and be kind of aligned with that view with a bunch of happy, engaged, enthusiastic people. Kelly Molson: Excellent. And that sets the tone for what we're going to talk about on this podcast today. But unpopular opinion first. What have you prepared for us, Elizabeth? Elizabeth McKay: Dark unsweetened chocolate is much better than milky sweet chocolate. So the nastier the better, the more bitter, the less sugar, higher the cocoa. Kelly Molson: What percentage are you going? Are you going 85 and higher? Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, 85% or 90 if you're really brave. Kelly Molson: I like this unpopular opinion and I'm going to say I don't know how unpopular it is because we made a bit of a shift over to Dutch. So my husband is a massive chocoholic. Like, if a pudding on the menu is not chocolate, he's not having it. And if chocolate is in the house, he's eating it. But he made the switch over to dark chocolate because he can eat a smaller amount and it actually satisfies his cravings quicker. So he would be with you on that. Elizabeth McKay: I thought I was going to be unpopular. Kelly Molson: Well, you might be. This is just me. You might be. I'm with you on it. But listeners, let us know, are we going dark chocolate or milk chocolate? Elizabeth McKay: My kids are not happy with this decision, but there we are. I buy the chocolates. So they just have to get on board with that. Kelly Molson: They have to lump it then. That's the rules of the house. Elizabeth McKay: Grandparents indulge. Kelly Molson: Excellent, excellent unpopular opinion, let us know, listeners, if you are with us or with Elizabeth or against Elizabeth. Tell us a little bit about your role at the London Transport Museum. Elizabeth McKay: Okay, well, I'm the chief operating officer at the London Transport Museum. That's two acronyms COO and LTM together. I think the COO is kind of do everything and anything role. So for me, that's strategy, forward planning, capital projects, innovation, DNI, green agenda safeguarding, and basically all the internal stuff. And so I get to poke my nose into everything, anything that needs kind of help, support or advocacy, really. And I'm also the Deputy Chair of Kids in Museums, so I get to be on the other side of the kind of governance table in that role. Kelly Molson: It's a big remit, what you have on your play, isn't it? I hadn't really considered how many different hats that you would have to wear on a daily basis. Elizabeth McKay: I think it's different at different organisations. So I was really fortunate it was a new role when I came into LTM. So you get to shape a role if you're not just picking up what something has been done before. So that's useful. So I could just add in all the stuff that I really wanted to do. Kelly Molson: I love it. That's a dream role, right? I would like this and all of these things, please. Elizabeth McKay: Yes, exactly. Kelly Molson: So we had a little chat prior to talking today and this is really the driver for what our conversation is going to be about today. But you said that culture was the driver for why you joined the organisation. So I really want to talk about kind of culture and innovation today. What was it about the culture at LTM that really appealed to you? What made it really stand out? Elizabeth McKay: Well, I read somewhere that 75% of people consider a company's culture before applying for a job. That was really interesting and, you know, generally, organisation cultures, you know, values, beliefs, and attitudes and all the things that influence how people behave, really. So it's authentic. It's how an organisation responds in a crisis, how teams adapt, how people interact. And it's also one of those things that's a real top indicator of employee satisfaction. So it's a real top reason people stick around and stay in the job. So it's super important. So what attracted me to LTM and this was four and a half years ago was this kind of can do attitude. I really liked the entrepreneurial spirit. Elizabeth McKay: People were really nice and struck me as genuinely collaborative, and there was a real openness I was struck by this, by the people I met, by the kind of process I met when I first met Sam, the director, like, genuine good people vibes. And I didn't feel there were any barriers or that people were precious. So all of that really kind of struck me. Kelly Molson: It's interesting that you mentioned entrepreneurial, because that's not often a word that is associated with museums or culture or heritage. Not in the sense of not in the sense of sometimes how they view things. Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, I think it's really interesting, and it's part of what attracted me to LTM, and it's part of what drives us all. It's absolutely great. And one of the first things I did when I joined is ran a series of workshops to kind of codify, you know, our culture, because all of these stuff was just brilliant, but it felt like it needed to be pulled together, so and I'm kind of a self confessed strategy geek. So we got everybody together and ran serious workshops. And entrepreneurial was so key to how people thought about what the museum did and their own roles. So was the word playful, which is something that the people had used a lot and, you know, was in various documents and things. So those two things together were really important. Elizabeth McKay: And then other words like collaborative, active, courageous, and inclusive came out as partly it's how people describe themselves, and partly it's kind of aspirational. Right. So all of that. I worked with everyone and kind of came up with a strategic framework that we use. As I said, it's kind of codifying all of this. Kelly Molson: Yeah. One of the things he mentioned is that the culture there is kind of forgiving and encouraging. How did you define that? As part of these kind of strategy workshops? Or was that already defined before you kind of arrived? Elizabeth McKay: Oh, that's interesting. Did I say that those are really good words. Kelly Molson: They are really good words.Elizabeth McKay: Those are really good words. And I think what that means is it's an environment where creativity is really encouraged. So our purpose, which we kind of defined in this process I mentioned, is igniting curiosity to shape the future. It's always there. It's an ether right, a culture. So what you're trying to do is always ensure you understand it and then develop it in different ways. So I think we have a culture that people really thrive on ideas and making things happen. I think now, thinking about it, I'd really underline courageous as an important word too. And also having just navigated through COVID, I'm really acutely aware of my colleagues, what they've been through, what so many people in the sector have been through, just keeping it all together and keeping the show on the road. Elizabeth McKay: So I think courageous is something, a word we use, and I think it's increasingly more important and valuable and accurate. Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned creative there, which is interesting because one of the things I want to delve into a little bit is about the innovation and the culture of innovation that you've created. So we had Pete Austin come on from Imperial War Museums quite a few episodes back now, and he talked about innovation in marketing. And one of the things that he really stressed is that a lot of people hang on the idea of innovation as always being something new or a new idea or a big idea. But actually, innovation can be about making what you already have better. And I think that's really important to hold that in your mindset, is that it's not just about the big and new and shiny. Kelly Molson: It is sometimes just about a small change that's really innovative in the organisation with something that you're already doing and just doing it in a better way. So I wanted to kind of understand, what does innovation mean to you from your perspective, from the organisation? Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, that's a good question. And one thing is so important that it's not about innovation for innovation's sake, always have to have a purpose and an outcome. That's why you're doing it. So it can't be gratuitous. So I think it's really difficult to define. And there's a whole industry around innovation, isn't there? Writers, businesses, agencies, people who help you define it or harness it or provide methods or just basically hand it back to you. Right, but I'd probably go back to defining it as a new idea. But it could be a concept or product or a method, as you say. It can be incremental, those little twists, but also it can be disruptive, it can be radical, but I think it has to lead to some kind of change or improvement. Elizabeth McKay: I think there's an element of agility and adaptability that's required to and going back to the idea of kind of courageousness, it needs to be an element of bravery. You got to take some risks because it's changing something. The safe thing is just keep doing what you're doing. The brave courageous thing is push the boat, try something new. Experiment, pilot, innovate. I'm real big believer in all of that. I was remembering this like, great quote. I don't know who it was. Some strategy guru said, "whenever you see a successful business, someone once made a courageous decision". Kelly Molson: Yes, very true. I like that quote. Elizabeth McKay: Maybe somebody can tell us who've said that. Kelly Molson: Let us know, listeners. It's an excellent quote. We'd love to be able to attach it to somebody.. Elizabeth McKay: Find it. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's true, isn't it? And I think that what you said about courageous, it can be a really small move as well because I guess there's an element of courageousness needed when you bring ideas to people, your team will be empowered by you to think about ways that they can be more innovative. But they do have to be courageous in coming to you with an idea that they might think is a bit out there or they might think won't be accepted that well, who knows? So it starts off a really small level, doesn't it? Or a small part.Elizabeth McKay: It does. And it goes back to the culture of the organisation too. So I think there are different ways to unpack this. Right? So going back to talking about articulating your principles, so entrepreneurial and playful, for example. There's a lot in this. So entrepreneurial is priding yourself to be financially sustainable. We earn 80% of our income, so we have a really diversified income stream. So it really helps in periods of uncertainty. Great shop, corporate membership in London, which was originally a tour business, now it's a whole multichannel experience, right? And then playful is a brand strong brand. It's a word we love. We fully embraced it in all levels. So you can see it in the marketing and the product, our tone of voice, programming, all those things. So that's a lot to play with. Elizabeth McKay: And then I really think that innovation can come from anywhere. So the challenge is you kind of say about how you bring those ideas forward. You need to have ways that people can meaningfully input, right? And you can do this in so many different ways. We can consultation, so you ask for input or co creation. So you're working together on something and you need some kind of systems, right? If you have a creative proposal format or a form or something, it needs to kind of go somewhere, it needs to be looked at, needs to be discussed, it needs to be responded to. All that stuff plays together, really. I think about this a lot, actually. Kelly Molson: I can too. Elizabeth McKay: Because my background is kind of creative person. I started in advertising, I moved to the BBC, I've led creative teams. I've always done that. So, yeah, I think you have to have both the strategy and the values and you have to have the kind of systems and processes. systems and processes.Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's really interesting. I didn't know this about your background, but I sensed that you might have had a creative background because the way that you've talked about how you would approach certain things is the way that I have been taught to approach certain things from my kind of graphic design background. So I did wonder if you'd been trained in a similar way. Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, exactly. And that's why I get really excited about this. That's why the most fun I have in my job is my meetings with my head of design and they always overrun and we always come up with all these great things and then we have to step back and apply all the principles and the financial sustainability and the models and everything. Kelly Molson: Actually, that leads me to a really good question. One of the questions I had was how does London Transport Museum approach innovation? How do you encourage ideas? And you've talked about workshops and co creation stuff. How do you overcome the challenge of choosing and managing those ideas? You can talk for endless hours with your design manager. I'm sure there's some incredible things that have come out of that. How do you refine those ideas and choose which ones you actually bring to market or bring to the organisation? Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, good question. Million dollar question. You've got to be agile, I think. Not all ideas also come up at convenient times to fit into planning processes. That said, I think you could build flexibility into your processes. It's really important that no is not your default answer, which is true in parenting as well as business. So what's an example of that? So this year and last year, we staggered our planning processes to allow for early ideas to come out that were unfunded. Don't worry, we just want to hear what they are. And it gave them time to be kind of shaped opportunities for the fundraising team to look at them, nurture, develop. So that's one, as I mentioned, love a good workshop with lots of post it notes. But yes, there are so many ways to generate and iterate and choose ideas. Elizabeth McKay: I think that the other thing is you really need to delegate down to the people who are the creative engines too. That's rich coming from me, because I like to get involved in all this stuff. Right. But I know when and where to step back. And so, good example. Our social media manager, super fabulous, basically pitched, starting a Tiktok channel, said, yeah, go and do it, and it's just taken off. Phenomenal. Kelly Molson: Great. Elizabeth McKay: So the downside is she's just been poached and she's going off to a dog. Watch the space. In the new year, we're going to have an opening. Retail, I mean, our retail is..Kelly Molson: Your shop is fabulous. Your shop is fabulous. There is a gift under the tree for my dad from your shop for this year. It is absolutely brilliant. Elizabeth McKay: Root master of PJs. Kelly Molson: No. Excellent Piccadilly Line socks because really good memory. So my dad is not a fan of the Underground, so we used to drive to Arnold Grove, get on the tube there, so we could come directly into Covent Garden on one tube. Just one tube. So the Piccadilly Line holds good memories for me. Elizabeth McKay: Holds good memories. Yeah. Well, the Moquet socks in a box is a good one too. But all of those products, they're just fabulous. And we have great brand icons to play with, granted. And it was really helpful of TfL to open the Elizabeth Line for a number of reasons. Whole new product line and obviously all made for me. So I think my husband's drawing the line at the Elizabeth Line Moquet sofa in the living room. Kelly Molson: I saw the chair in the shop and was like that. It's a bit of me, I'm not going to lie. It looks fabulous. Is your whole house kitted out in the London Transport Museum memorabilia? Elizabeth McKay: No, I think the divorce court would be calm. I don't have the room. I do have my mug. Small bits. Small bits that I channel. All that said, another team which is super creative is the Hidden London team. It's a little juggernaut and has its own internal experts, like Chris and City and we pivoted during lockdown, they launched a YouTube channel, it had its 100 episodes. We're now doing a tele series. And all the guides, they all are so kind of really inspired about finding new sites and new tours and new facts and new ways and ways to communicate with people. So you just need to enable that. And that's what I think our culture does. And hopefully the systems we put in place give people freedom and all the right motivations to kind of innovate. Kelly Molson: It's nice, isn't it? Because the way that you've talked about it, you've got these kind of like mini teams that work within the organisation, you've got merchandise in Hidden London under your social media. And then I guess they are inspired by the things that those other teams are doing as well. How Hidden London had to pivot during the Pandemic is hugely inspiring to the social media team or the shop team about how they promote their products and things. So then you get this kind of crossover of ideas and entrepreneurialism across the organisation. Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, it's a real synergy and it goes back to being clear about your purpose, I believe. And we talked a lot about how certain things are kind of in our DNA. Boards are really interested in that and trustees. So going back to that idea of you don't innovate for innovation's sake, it's all consistent and relevant. So the shop and the products are just as interesting and relevant and researched and authentic as, say, our learning programs. So our learning programs are doing quite a bit around our green agenda sustainability, sustainability of London and you see that mirrored in products that are ethically sourced and sustainable practices, et cetera. Elizabeth McKay: And of course we're all here about public transport which is the green way to travel and that's about the future of London and the exciting bit about what kind of city that we want to live in. So all of this is synergistic, isn't it? Past, present, future and that's what I think makes it so interesting. Kelly Molson: Yeah, it is super interesting and I think what I love about the organisation is how many different remits it actually has that you don't think about. You come along and it is a fantastic museum to walk around. It's really engaging. It is very playful. See, everyone always highlights the buffs and the things that they can do but you forget about the other remit of actually you are highlighting transport which is sustainable and green and you've got a requirement to be showcasing that and explaining that to people about what that means for London. Elizabeth McKay: Absolutely. We're an educational charity but we have all this great stuff behind us. One thing that's different about LTM from other museums is the corporate membership the sponsors that are linked to TfL's pipeline. So that gives us a whole other way to engage. We have spot leadership programs, kind of Chatham House Rules type thing where we're kind of a safe place for bringing together people to talk about the future of transport and London. Yet another thing people wouldn't necessarily know. That's why my job is so cool. Kelly Molson: Super cool, but tiring. Yeah and actually that touches on something else that we should talk about because you talked earlier about people having to pivot during the pandemic and well, you set yourselves as a purpose fuelled organisation through the Pandemic. That was one of the things that we talked about prior to this and one of the things you mentioned is that you're all still doing a lot more with a lot less than you had which obviously can cause burnout. How do you maintain that from a cultural perspective? How do you maintain a healthy culture without you're asking people to kind of give quite a lot and being really engaged with the organisation but we're all kind of running on a little bit of empty. How do you kind of maintain a healthy culture and make sure that people aren't getting to burnout stage? Elizabeth McKay: That's a really good question and I'm also reminded of that other quote, “culture eats strategy for breakfast, for lunch, dinner”. I feel like I'm pretty high energy going into kind of all the workshopping and thinking about our strategy. I do look around and pay my life myself. God, I drink so much coffee now. So it's a really good question. We're all dealing with it in the sector and all businesses, right? And next year is going to be h***. I mean, when I listen to this in 2023 I'll probably be like, oh my God, it's even worse than I thought. So first, again, I think about this a lot. So first you have to give permission to slow down, to slow the pace. Have realistic what one of our trustees calls heroic targets. Don't have heroic targets, have realistic targets. Elizabeth McKay: Then change your plan if there are external issues. For example, we have a real issue with slow recruitment right now. We have support from TfL HR. We have some back office support from TfL, also quite interesting. But it also means when they stop, we stop. And so that's been a real challenge. You cannot hire people quickly when you have an opening, that's an issue, and in a small team that will just grind you to a halt, right? So you have to recognise that. Second, I think we have really good ways of working. So we have a people plan. We have working groups, comprised people from across the organisation. We use our strategic principles like, we're here for everyone and we go the extra mile, but we also have deliverables with that. And we have annual survey. Elizabeth McKay: We try to stay on top of these kind of issues. So think about what you're measuring, I guess is another way to link to that. So we have an inclusion index and a well being index, and it gives us a little kind of sense of how things are going. Not that we wait around every year to find out what the score is because you're always getting that kind of feedback. Kelly Molson: So that index comes from kind of continual asking people how they are like mini surveys.Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, well that's the kind of annual survey. But we know that's important, so we're working on it in different ways. So it has lots of kind of action plans and activities around it. So we're really conscious of well being and kind of inclusion and the things that help with that culture. I think regular communication then is another thing. So my big insight is whatever you're doing with communication, there could be more, it could be different, it can better, and it could be even more regular than it is, I often think. But I know we shared that with people, but if they didn't get it, then you haven't kind of shared it right.Elizabeth McKay: So we have a weekly email, we have zoom sessions, we have in person online staff forums, departmental meetings, chats in the corridor now that we're back and we have corridors and then I guess the last one, I'd say really listen and adapt. So when people say, oh, that's the problem, really listen and change. And I would say the way we're going about our five year strategy right now has taken that into account so we can't make that deadline. I went, oh, okay, so I kind of redesigned what we're doing and gave more time, and it has to work or otherwise if we all fall over. There's not going to be a strategy. Kelly Molson: The communication thing is so important, isn't it? It's interesting because we run very different organisations, but that was the one piece of advice that were given by so I run an agency, I'm a member of a number of agency networks. During the pandemic, they were incredibly supportive to all of the agencies under their membership. And the biggest piece of advice they gave was just over communicate. Over communicate with your team, over communicate with your clients. Just let them know all the time what's happening, how things are. Because people just needed reassurance, and the only way that they could get reassurance was by talking about things openly and having that two way dialogue. So, yeah, I just can't stress enough how important that is. And a lot of organisations don't get that, right? Kelly Molson: They don't have enough time with their line managers or enough time with their colleagues to talk things through. Elizabeth McKay: That's so true. And I think we stepped it up during COVID really, because initially we just had to were online with Zooming and living from our bedrooms, et cetera. But we started doing a weekly well, three times a week, email out to all staff wherever they were, and then it became weekly, and then it improved to kind of this bulletin that is quite good. I know people read it. We basically send it to our trustees. The sense of everybody's in touch. But yeah, you cannot over communicate. Kelly Molson: I love that. What would be your advice for organisations that want to foster a culture of innovation more? Elizabeth McKay: Well, one level, it's probably simple behaviour theory. Encourage and celebrate creativity, right. Reward the thing you want to have, so that's something to think about. And then I think a more sophisticated approach is focusing on that triumvirate of culture, strategy and capabilities because they all have to work together. And then I go back to that little kind of MOT for a healthy culture, that permission to slow down, have a plan, think about what you're measuring, communicate, communicate and listen and then adapt. That would be my little thing I run through in my head. Kelly Molson: Excellent advice, Elizabeth. Thank you. Just thinking about what we said about creative background. Do you look for people with a kind of creative background when you're hiring? Do you think that's quite important for an organisation that is quite driven by innovation and driven by being quite entrepreneurial? Elizabeth McKay: Well, I do. I hand everyone a paper clip when they sit down and say, give me ten reasons, ten things you can do with this paper clip. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I think it's important.. we all get stuck in these kind of structured interviews and which capability am I assessing and this and that. And so my default is stick innovation in there because it needs to happen in every job and every role at every level. So it's never one department. It might go back to my early life as a young referred stepper in advertising, but I never believed in the creative department and then everybody else. Elizabeth McKay: So I really liked moving on and becoming going on the other side and being the kind of, I guess, more the marketing director type role at the BBC, which is commissioning and developing and producing. And I always thrive being around creative people, and they can be in any job, really. Kelly Molson: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Innovation comes from anywhere, any department, any person.Elizabeth McKay: Definitely. Definitely. And the places that get that right and I'm not saying we always get that right, or I have always done that brilliantly and everything I've done, but I think the places that get that right are the ones that really succeed and people are happy. They have a culture that you're enthusiastic about and excited about and you want to go that extra mile and all those things, words on the page that don't really mean anything unless it's been lived. Kelly Molson: That's a really good point, isn't it? Because I think when you work at an organisation, you take ownership of it, don't you? And if you're encouraged to be part of it, and you're encouraged to share your ideas, share your innovation, it becomes yours. You take a level of ownership of the organisation that you work in because you've been able to input into the ideas and you can see those things actually happen. Elizabeth McKay: Yes. And I was just thinking about how you might kind of slightly shift your culture if you need to do that and tweak that. I mean, it's a bigger change program, really. Everyone is part of that kind of shift. But I think it can go back to those stories that you tell and you celebrate. And also you can't define what stories people want to tell about your organisation. Right. They're just out there. But if you try to give some of that focus and pick the things that you're really proud of, or that our teams are proud of, and are examples or exemplars of that kind of creative and innovative culture, then it can start to be what you're known for. Elizabeth McKay: I mentioned the shop or the learning programs that are kind of blowing me away right now, or Hidden London just kind of firing on all cylinders. Those things get us talking internally and excited and then that works outside, too. Kelly Molson: Yeah, I love that. And as we end our podcast, you mentioned stories. I always ask my guests to share a book that they love with our listeners. What would be your book for us today? Elizabeth McKay: Well, can I have two? Kelly Molson: No, you can't have two, but it's Christmas when we're recording, so I will be kind and generous and let you have two. Elizabeth McKay: I know that you'd allow, thank you.Kelly Molson: Because I'm so weak, Because I'm so weak, Elizabeth.Elizabeth McKay: You're so generous. You're so lovely. One that I mentioned when we met was this book Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell. And it's just so good that I think if people haven't heard of it, they should pick it up. I mean, he wrote The Tipping Point and Blink, and he's just an excellent writer. He talks about data in such an interesting way. But this book is all about big questions in history and psychology and has case studies about Fidel Castro and Sylvia Plath and Bernie Madoff and Campus Rape, and I guess it's a bit dark. Kelly Molson: Yeah. Elizabeth McKay: Why did Neville Chamberlain think he could trust Hitler? There's just so much in this book that's super interesting. Kelly Molson: Excellent book. Elizabeth McKay: My other one is I just bought this book from my son, fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury. I read it when I was a teenager and it had a huge influence on me. I think it was my first Dystopian novel. So I'm just reading it again and my son may not get it or it'll be so well. Kelly Molson: You've done the classic. Buy a gift for someone that you're keeping. Elizabeth McKay: Yes, and I realise they're both very dark. Did that say about me? Oh, no. I mean, I'm actually quite optimistic. Kelly Molson: Yeah. But, yeah, maybe you just need an outlet to channel the dark stuff and that you can do that by reading these books. And everything else is fun and light. Elizabeth McKay: Yeah, that's it. The dark side. I probe the dark side between the pages. Kelly Molson: Great books. All right, listeners, if you would like to be in with a chance of winning Elizabeth's two books, then head over to our Twitter account and retweet this episode announcement with the words, "I want Elizabeth books", and then you can share in her darkness. Elizabeth McKay: Oh, dear. Kelly Molson: Elizabeth, thank you so much. It's been a joy to speak to you today. Thank you. I know how incredibly busy you are, so I'm very grateful that you could come on and spare us some time just before Christmas. And I am looking forward to seeing what you accomplish in the new year. I definitely know you're going to hit that strategy and get that up and running, so no challenge there. Elizabeth McKay: Well, thank you so much, Kelly. This was fun. And I guess anyone who's thinking about coming on, I would say it was not as painful as what I thought it would be.Kelly Molson: Excellent recommendation you can write that on our Apple ipod recommendation list. That would be excellent. Not as painful as I expected quote. Thanks.Elizabeth McKay: Quote. Thumbs up. No. Thank you very much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned.Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast..

covid-19 christmas america god new york spotify founders tiktok head children culture english business kids apple pandemic innovation dna developing language bbc mba museum coo oxford experiments adolf hitler dutch retail harvard university skip reward underground strangers writers encourage executive producer customer service tourism chief operating officer trustees boards blink bafta museums graduate schools tipping points malcolm gladwell mckay user experience mot fidel castro phenomenal peabody ray bradbury dystopian queue bernie madoff zooming thumbs webby sylvia plath pjs dni chief learning officer american literature covent garden deputy chair creative ideas tfl culture of innovation experience economy learning technologies imperial war museum neville chamberlain english national opera ltm historic royal palaces tourism marketing grey advertising london transport museum piccadilly line kelly molson

Walk the Big One. Developing an exclusive experience, from an everyday safety process

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 11, 2023 54:30

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends July 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://twitter.com/AndyHygatehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-hygate-50351a45/https://www.blackpoolpleasurebeach.com/https://www.blackpoolpleasurebeach.com/events/walk-the-big-one/ Andy Hygate is the Director of Operations at the iconic UK amusement park Blackpool Pleasure Beach. Andy has worked in visitor attractions for over twenty years - including as a General Manager of Blue Planet Aquarium in Cheshire and also Oakwood Theme Park in Pembrokeshire. In Blackpool Andy heads up a team of almost 200 staff who operate the rides and deliver the guest experience - including High Adventure Experiences - 2023 will be his eight season in Blackpool. Andy also claims to be a rollercoaster aficionado having ridden over 600+ coasters worldwide. His current favourite coaster (though it changes all the time) is Iron Gwazi at Busch Gardens in Tampa. Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Happy New Year, everyone. 2023 at Skip the Queue is packed with more amazing guests, and we're starting the new year with a really great one. In today's episode, I speak with Andy Hygate, Director of Operations at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. We are talking about walking The Big One and how to develop an exclusive experience from an everyday safety process.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Andy, welcome to Skip the Queue.Andy Hygate: Hello. It's nice to be here. Thanks for inviting me.Kelly Molson: Well, it's my pleasure. Just to let everyone know, we're recording this today, as we do, on YouTube and I've got this halo-like effect over my head.Andy Hygate: Okay. Ray lights.Kelly Molson: I look quite angelic, don't I, Andy? Quite festive. If you're watching this on the YouTube channel, you will understand what we're talking about, but this is not good podcast material. Sorry. Anyway, Andy, we're starting with some icebreakers.Andy Hygate: Okay.Kelly Molson: I've got a good one for you. I know that you are a big old rollercoaster fan. So I want to know, and this might be a little bit like asking who's your favourite child, or who's your favourite dog. But I want to know, what's your favourite rollercoaster?Andy Hygate: Oh, wow. I mean, it changes all the time. I guess I have kind of a top three, but I've recently been lucky enough to go to Orlando and I went on a ride there called Iron Gwazi, which is a RMC rework of what was a classic wooden coaster into a steel coaster that's got inversions and so on. And it's one of those rides where if you're a roller coaster fan, it's everything that you want from a roller coaster, from an incredible, and I think it's almost beyond vertical first drop. It's got inversions on a wooden structure.But it was one of those rides that just didn't let up until it hits the brakes at the end. I mean, it blew me away. It was incredible. But then I say that, I also went on the VelociCoaster and I was lucky to get in the front seats, which is the Islands of Adventure. I went on that at night. And again, I mean, that was an incredible ride. So at the moment it's probably between those two. Maybe I can't pick a favourite. But yeah, both incredible intense, fabulous long rides. Really, really good stuff.Kelly Molson: Okay. Do you know what? The VelociCoaster, feel like I've been watching that happen for years on Twitter, because they've been really good at feeding little snippets of what's been happening before it's launched, like the design of it. I just feel like I've seen it. It's just been happening for so long.Andy Hygate: The weird thing is sometimes you watch these things on YouTube, particularly if you watch POVs of rides and you think what the ride is going to ride like. And we've got a double-launch coaster and effectively that's what VelociCoaster is. But that last inversion, which is really low over the water, you have to go on it to experience what it's like. I can't describe it to you. It's one of those you think you're coming out, which is not good, but you are obviously not. But it is just, I mean, yeah, it just blew me away. Absolutely blew me away.Kelly Molson: Amazing. Great recommendation, Andy. All right. Okay, next one. Who's your idol and have you ever met them?Andy Hygate: I don't know. I mean, there's a rollercoaster designer, a German guy called Stengel who is behind many, many of the designs of the world's best coasters. I'm a coaster geek and I'm a big fan of B&M, and I guess I would love to meet them, but I haven't. I don't know because they always say don't meet your heroes. And so I kind of think that I'm not really sure that I would want to.Kelly Molson: Keeping a distance, probably safer. What's the weirdest food you've ever eaten?Andy Hygate: Weirdest food. Before I was five years old, I'd had more birthdays in America than I'd had in the UK. And I remember on my fifth birthday having an ice cream birthday cake. And the fact that I can still remember this, 30 whatever years later, I remember that being something that was very unusual at the time. I don't know now. Yeah, I mean, that's quite cool, actually. To be honest, I've got a big birthday coming up in a couple of years and I'd quite like an ice cream birthday cake for that now.Kelly Molson: There you go.Andy Hygate: I suppose that's weird.Kelly Molson: Putting it out there, just getting the hints in already for Andy's birthday.Andy Hygate: Pretty much. There you go.Kelly Molson: Love it. All right, Andy, what is your unpopular opinion? What have you got to share with us?Andy Hygate: You know what? I think camping should be banned. And particularly, level above that, glamping. I guess, again, for me, if you go on holiday, you want to stay somewhere nice, I think. My experiences of camping are always being freezing cold, in soaking wet, and being covered in mud. When you wake up in the morning and you've been like you've slept outside effectively, and it's just a different level of cold. And I don't get the whole thing about... People say, oh, I don't know, "I'm connecting to nature, or the great outdoors."And I actually do like the outdoors, but if I go anywhere, I want to at least stay... Well, if you come to Blackpool, you don't want to be in a tent. You want to be in a nice hotel, which you can obviously do here. But I don't understand the appeal of it. I haven't done it for probably 30 years, but my whole recollection of camping is being freezing cold, soaking wet, and it being thoroughly unpleasant. So yeah, I would ban the tents.Kelly Molson: Oh, Andy. That's a really strong opinion and I like it. Have you ever been glamping? Have you ever done the one level up?Andy Hygate: I've seen it because it appears. I mean, a lot of places and particularly there seems to be a thing with safari parks. I can't think of anything worse than being asleep in a safari park. It's always a beautiful white tent, isn't it, when it's glamping? But ultimately, you're sleeping next to a lion enclosure. And in the middle of the night, you get picked off by one of the animals. I obviously sound very passionate about this, but glamping is supposed to be a luxury, but it's not a... I don't know. Having plastic champagne glasses in a canvas tent, to me is not luxury. Sorry. That sounds awful.Kelly Molson: No. Do you know what? I think it's my favourite opinion of the year. Listeners, let me know what you think over on our Twitter account if you agree with Andy. It's very strong, very strong unpopular opinion today. Oh, I love that. All right. Well, Andy, I'm going to guess that your background isn't in camping or nature, but tell us a little bit about your background.Andy Hygate: Okay, well, I'm the Operations Director for Blackpool Pleasure Beach and I've been here for eight seasons. But I've worked in attractions for over 20 years. I actually used to work at a famous aquarium in Cheshire for many, many years. I basically had the opportunity to go and run a theme park, a small theme park in Pembrokeshire down in Wales, beautiful park in the country, a theme park called Oakwood. And I went and worked there.And one of the reasons I went and worked there is because I've always liked roller coasters. And so from as young as I can remember, I grew up in Kent and we used to go on day trips to Margate. Not camping trips. And I used to go on the rides at Dreamland there. And I was hooked, I was obsessed with it. And so obviously when I got the chance to come work at Oakwood, it was a no-brainer because they had big rides. And I learned about rides, how to operate rides, the maintenance involved and all of that kind of stuff.And then that kind of opened the door, really, for me to work in other parks, and that's ultimately why I work here. But I think I'm very, very lucky to work in an industry that I'm passionate about. And the fact that I love roller coasters, we've got 10 roller coasters at Blackpool Pleasure Beach. And so for me to work with those every day is a real privilege and really good fun. And part of my job is literally to go and ride rides. And if you told me that when I was 10 years old, I just never would've believed that that was a possibility.Kelly Molson: That's very lovely. This comes up quite a lot with our guests, actually, because it is an industry that people tend to work in from a young age and then work their way up. And they love it, they really love it. And it's really nice listening to people where they're like, "I get to do this for my job, but this is fun." And it's really nice to hear. I'm going to guess, Andy, only because you mentioned that you got a big birthday coming up, but I'm going to guess that you are maybe a similar age to me and you would remember Dreamland as Bembom Brothers.Andy Hygate: I do, yeah. Bembom Brothers Amusement Park.Kelly Molson: Yeah, because I can remember, because I'm from Essex and then I can remember my granddad taking me to Bembom Brothers when I was really little and riding the wooden rollercoaster that they had there.Andy Hygate: Railway, yeah. It's still there.Kelly Molson: Yeah, good times. Good times. All right. So Andy, today, I'm really interested in this. I think this is such a great topic for our listeners. What we're going to talk about is how you've developed an exclusive experience from an everyday safety procedure, which sounds crazy, but tell us a little bit about how this idea came about.Andy Hygate: Well, it's a strange one. But we're talking about an experience called Walk the Big One. And for those of you that don't know, Blackpool Pleasure Beach has a very large roller coaster, which is still, some 25 years later, the tallest rollercoaster in the UK, a rollercoaster called The Big One. It's 235 feet tall, and basically guests can pay to come and walk up the ride after the park closes, up the main pull up, which is the main lift and the sort of slow part at the start of the ride.And we're obviously located right next to the beach, so you get an absolutely spectacular view. And when I say spectacular, it's a really difficult one to describe. But if you don't know Blackpool and saw the sunset. So something else, I mean, I said I've just been to Florida and I think I would say our sunsets are comparable with theirs. Maybe the temperature's not quite the same. But what we were ultimately able to achieve is roller coasters generally have steps running up the lift hill and that's no different to our coaster.They're there for safety reasons so that ultimately if there's a stoppage or you have to clear a train of guests or whatever, that you can walk people down. But by using those we were able to give people this very unique experience in a controlled and safe way, where they get this unbelievably photogenic and unique experience, which only really, and certainly compared to the number of people that ride the ride, only a handful of people get. When people go on roller coasters, one of the things that you don't want, it's a very modern problem, is trying to stop people from taking photographs or filming on rides, because inevitably they drop their phone, and you don't want things falling and all of that kind of stuff.But by doing a controlled walking experience like this, it means that people can get those amazing pictures and so on. And people love putting that on social media and all of that kind of stuff. So how it actually started, though, well, again, there's two versions of this depending on who you speak to. And I can say that because it started before I started working here, so I don't know which one is true. But one of them is that we had a corporate inquiry from a group that had hired out a room and were having an event at the Pleasure Beach. And they wanted to do something different with the boss of the company. And again about taking a crazy photo or whatever and they asked if they could take them to the top of The Big One.And so they looked into it and the safety aspects and so on and were able to achieve that. So that's one possibility. And then the other one is that a member of staff went on a trip to Australia and walked up the Sydney Harbor Bridge and came back and said, "That was an amazing experience. Wouldn't that be really cool if we could replicate something like that in the park?" And so depending on who you believe, depends on where this started from. But all I know is that when I started here, we were running on Friday evenings throughout the year, we were running three walks a night taking groups of six people up the structure for an hour.And an hour is the whole thing. So you come and you do a little safety briefing, we kit people up. You'll be pleased to know people are connected with a safety line whilst they're doing this and we show them how to use it and so on. And then we walked them up the structure to the top. We do it in stages, because, as I said, it's over 70 meters high, so it's 420 steps to the top. We do it three times in an evening, so our leg muscles are quite...Kelly Molson: Nice. Good workouts.Andy Hygate: Quite good. But you basically walk people up and you stop at 50 foot intervals. We tell them a little bit about the history of the ride and some facts about the ride and so on. And also, what you notice is as you get higher up you get to see more and more at the park and also beyond the park as well. And you get that different sort of vantage point. And so by the time you get to the summit, which is the bit that everyone's looking forward to, if it's a nice clear day, you can look one way and you can see across the estuary, and you can see as far as Southport. And then you look the other way and you can literally see the Lake District. And you've got the Blackpool Tower and you can see the whole of the town set out below you.And it's an incredible experience, and even though I've walked up the structure loads of times, for me, I still get a thrill out of doing it and I'm still always impressed by the view. So for the first-time guest that's coming to do it for whatever reason, because we get loads of people doing this for... We get rollercoaster enthusiasts, which obviously you can understand why they would want to do it. But we also get people that are doing it for charity events and we get people that have had it as a surprise present and they've turned up at evening and didn't know really anything about what they were going to do. And so there's that whole mix of different people doing it and for different reasons and whatever. And again, once you get to the top, again, other people are getting different things out of it.We get the people that are serious photographers that want the sunset walk and so on. And then you get the people that are Facebook crazy and want to do Facebook Live at the top so all their mates can see it and so on. And it caters, really, for all of those people. What's quite cool is you can start with six people that don't even necessarily know each other. Sometimes you do get a group where it's six people that do, but we've had it where you've got six people haven't met before and then by the time they get to the end of it and they're back down on the ground, there's this kind of camaraderie that's been built up by having this experience.And they're always towards the staff because it's us that do it, it's the rides team that walk up. They're always so appreciative. And I think finding out stuff that you wouldn't find out normally when you visit, little tips and facts about the ride and little interesting oddities about how roller coasters work and so on makes it a really good experience. So yeah, I mean, I know that was a very long answer to-Kelly Molson: That was a great answer. It's a great answer and it leads me on to some of the questions that I've got about what's it brought the attraction? Because you talked there about a lot, so there was a lot to take in there. And some of the things you talked about were when people go up, you've got these incredible views and people want to take photos of that, they want to do Facebook Live. I guess you've got so many different audiences that that appeals to as well, like the rollercoaster nuts or just people that just want that Instagram moment. What has it brought, the attraction?Andy Hygate: For us, it's brought us into the experience market in a way which is something that we wouldn't have necessarily... I mean, the rollercoaster was never built with that in mind. It was obviously built as a thrill ride and the fact that are stairs there, and I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about Walk the Woodie later on. But the stairs are there for a functional reason and so you can do track inspections, and so in the event there's a stoppage there's a way for people to get down and a safe way and so on. And I think it's been able to make use of something that's already there or existing in a different way that's also such a memorable way.And invariably, I said, for all those people doing those different things, whether it's taking photos and posting them on social media or whether it's Instagram or whether it's Facebook or whatever it is that they're doing it for. And we have seen, particularly over the last five years doing it, there is, I think, this explosion in experiences and experience culture and people wanting, instead of... You are buying an experience, ultimately, and then you are showing other people that you've done that experience.So that's a big part of what social media is and a big motivator for doing it. But I think it's great that you can have that mix of people. And you even get the people that quietly... We've had people that live in Blackpool that can see the structure from their house because it's a tall structure I have always just been curious about it and just want to come and walk up it. And that's what's great, that you get that mix, really.Kelly Molson: It's opened up the park to a different audience, I guess, because those people might not have come along and come on and taken a ride on the rollercoaster or spent the day at the park. But there they would come along in the evening and walk up it and be able to spot their house from the top of it, I guess.Andy Hygate: Yeah, no, it's definitely true. And also you get people that have driven up from London, which is quite a long way from us, and so on, to do an experience which is pretty unique. And it's certainly unique in our location. And there are all those different reasons for doing it, makes it a really good thing. And I also think we are catering for a desire to have an adventure. I mean, roller coasters ultimately are that as well. I mean, the great thing about roller coasters is that people are searching for a thrill and an experience. I mean, even me talking about those rides that I was talking about before, I was absolutely thrilled or blown away by them and so on.But people want to go on a ride where you have the illusion of danger, that ultimately in reality is actually a very safe experience. And actually you could relate this to that as well, this experience, walking up something. You're at a very high height, you're on a slender gantry. And the structure moves, it's designed to, it's good that it moves in the wind and so on. You wouldn't want it to be brittle and so on. That all adds to the adventure. So you're getting that experience but in a way which is actually a really safe way of doing it.Kelly Molson: Yeah. It's brilliant. It's still incredible to me that something that you would've done on a daily basis anyway you've been able to develop into this incredible experience. So it's brought you a different audience. It's obviously brought you more revenue, right? So you mentioned earlier you do three walks.Andy Hygate: Yeah, so we take six people on each walk. And they pay obviously for that experience. And it's a premium-priced experience because you're getting something which is a small group of people, it's after the park is closed and all of that side of it. And this is with the experience economy or people looking for those things. People are prepared to pay extra. For one, you're getting that level of service and insight that you wouldn't get necessarily normally, and talking directly to people that work on the ride and know about the ride and so on.If you were here as a visitor, you'd probably just queue up and go on the ride, have a great experience, find it thrilling and then off you go, where people like to, I think, have a curiosity about the behind the scenes, how things work and so on. And Walk the Woodie, which is the version of this that we do on one of our wooden coasters, is the classic example of something where we've taken something that we have to do every day. So this is the rollercoaster geek in me. There's two different types of coasters. There's steel coasters, which are the ones that you find where they invert, and most modern coasters are steel coasters. And then you get wooden coasters, and Blackpool Pleasure Beach, we are really lucky to have four, which is really unusual, classic wooden coasters, all built in the 1920s and '30s.I mean, these rides, rides like the Grand National and so on, which are iconic rides. When you think of our park, if you ask people about our park, they'll mention those rides. But for me, the fact that people want to come and ride a wooden coaster. It's 90 years it's been thrilling people and they still find it a thrilling ride and still want to go on it and so on. I think that's incredible that people want to do that, and what that says is those attractions, even if they were built in the 1930s, are still brilliant attractions and that people still want to come and ride them.Now, part of looking after and the maintenance of a wooden coaster is that you do daily inspections of them, and you literally walk the entire track of the ride, which you can do on a wooden coaster because unlike on a steel coaster, you've got a walkway literally the entire length of the ride. And so we have an in-house structures team and construction team here, which is part of how we maintain the coasters and are able to keep them going and so on, have to walk the entire track every day. And so every morning before the park opens, nice and early, doesn't matter what the weather is, our team of structures people will come and walk alongside the entire track, carrying out an inspection and making sure there's no problems, no issues, no rot, no nails where there shouldn't be, all of those kind of things so that the ride's ultimately safe to open.And with this stuff I'm talking about with offering experiences, we suddenly thought, well, wouldn't it be great if the general public had the opportunity to do something that this very selective group of people were having to do every single day of the year when we're open? And that's really how that experience came about. And I think The Big One gave us the confidence to look at other rides and other attractions that we've gotten and start to think, actually, what is it that we do that people would pay to come and do as well? And Walk the Woodie a hundred percent came out of that.Kelly Molson: That's absolutely brilliant. And I think when we spoke briefly before today, you mentioned that you've got special merchandise that people can buy. And do they get a piece of Woodie? Don't worry, folks, it is structurally sound but they do get a piece of Woodie.Andy Hygate: I have to say, with wooden coasters, people... And I can use this, I said this to some of my American friends and they have no clue what I was talking about. But wooden roller coasters, it's like Trigger's broom. And part of the maintenance of them is that you are constantly working on them and you are constantly replacing the wood. So actually how much of the structure, the original structure is still there a hundred years later or whatever. And anyway, so we're always carrying out that work. And when we did Walk The Big One, we wanted people to take away something after the experience. And actually I've got one here, look, to hold up for you.Kelly Molson: Oh, brilliant.Andy Hygate: You get this medal at the end of it. And it's for some people, particularly if you're scared of heights, which we do get, it's an achievement if you've made it to the top and all of that kind of stuff. And invariably, what actually happens with that as well is that when you get down and you give them a medal, they all immediately have their photo taken with it and so on.So again, it feeds into all the stuff I was saying about social media and so on. So anyway, with Walk the Woodie we thought, well, wouldn't it be nice if we could do something like that? And we thought about a medal and so on. And then we thought, well, hang on a minute, we've got all this wood that we've removed from the ride as we've replaced and updated it. Why don't we chop it up into little pieces and give people a piece of the ride to take?Kelly Molson: It's a genius idea. Not only is it a brilliant piece of memorabilia, it's sustainable too.Andy Hygate: Well, yeah, exactly. And actually what's cool about it is the wood itself often has... You can see the rungs of the original growth in the tree and so on in it. And I'll tell you a really nice piece. People always want the chunk that's got the nails sticking out a bit or the bit with the flaky paint or whatever it is, just because it's all... There's a certain, again, this whole experience thing, people want authenticity. And I think that just plays into that. And also if you are going back afterwards and you've got home and you're telling your friends or your family what you've done, if you're producing a piece of wood from that very ride that's a piece of history and all of that kind of stuff, it just adds to the thing.So yeah, I mean, we always say to people that do it, look, we don't do any hard sell or anything, at the end of it you get those things as part of the experience regardless. But then we do some merch which is exclusive. I mean, I'm wearing one of The Big One pieces of clothing, which we only sell to people that have been on the walk that evening. So the guests in the park can obviously, when they come and visit they can buy Big One mugs and pin badges and Big One everything if that's what they want, of course. But you can only get this stuff by participating in the experience. So it makes it quite special, really.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it does. It's brilliant. I mean, really, we are recording this episode in the run up to Christmas, listeners, but this will launch, this is obviously going out in the new year. And I think this is such a good message to start the year on. And it's something that has been talked about at a number of the ALVA meetings that I've been to and it's something the industry's been talking about in the run up to Christmas season is about that level of experience and doing things that are different, because it is what people are absolutely craving for. And they will be happy to pay the higher price point for doing something that's really special and something that's really unique, and just something that's of real interest to them as well. You are hooking into people's real desires with these unique experiences. I think this is such a brilliant story. Your dates sell out really quickly as well, don't they?Andy Hygate: Yeah, I mean, we've just put on our 2023 dates online. And what we find is that there's a lot of... Well, because of the social media aspect of it, there's a lot of word of mouth about it anyway. And also we got a lot of repetition. Again, I think it's because it's so unique, but in the case of Walk The Big One, the other thing that we find, because we do it from March but we also do it through until the autumn. And you can come along in, I don't know, in the spring and do it and it can be sunshine and lovely and bright and so on. But then you hear that actually you can come back and you can do it in September when the illuminations are on in Blackpool, when it's dark, and the experience takes on a whole different thing altogether. And to walk up effectively in the darkness and just see the lights along the fragile miles along the coastline is a beautiful and very different experience.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I bet that's amazing. So do you get a lot of repeat visits for something like this?Andy Hygate: Yes. What you do is you'll find that those people that do it in the spring, we say, "Oh yeah, we do it in September." And they say, "Oh, I didn't know that." And so that happened certainly early on with it, we were finding that people came back to it. And then obviously once it built up a bit of a reputation when we started thinking about these like Walk the Woodie with the wooden coasters, what you found is that people had done Walk the Big One and knew it was a really fun experience, had a great time. Suddenly thought, oh, well, actually I want to try that as well. And I think it was emotive in a different way because with The Big One obviously it's really tall, and there's no getting away from that. And the thing is, the payoff on that one is that you're going to get that amazing view right at the top and so on.With Walk the Woodie because we've walked the track on them on the Big Dipper, you're not going to go as high at all because the ride's only like 60 feet tall and so on. It's a different experience but in some ways it's, I don't want to say more fulfilling because they're fulfilling for different reasons, but it's certainly more challenging because you're walking a lot more of the track than you would do on Walk the Big One. But also it's that insight that you're getting and that understanding of how the ride's maintained, how it works.And as much as I can describe to you what it's like to walk along a rollercoaster track, when you actually do it, you suddenly get some kind of... The bit that always shocks people is that we start at the end of the ride and we actually walk backwards. And you walk from where the break run is and where the ride would normally end and you do the last little bunny hops, which are the last part of the ride when you're on it, and you do them first. When you're on the ride because the ride's coming to an end, those little bunny hops don't feel like the first drop.You think, that's the end of the ride, they're not very big, and so on. When you have to walk them actually you realise that what you thought was small bunny hops are actually quite large and steep and so on. And it gives people a different appreciation for the ride. And so we've had people that have done Walk the Woodie and then gone back on the Big Dipper when they've come back to the park as a regular visitor, and said that it has totally changed the way that they view the ride and they've got a totally different appreciation for it and how we maintain it, how we look after it, all the work that goes into it. But also an understanding of the scale of these things and so on. And you would never get that just by going on the ride itself, I suppose.Kelly Molson: That's really cool, isn't it? I mean, there must have been, with both of the rides, Walk the Big One and Walk the Woodie, there must have been some challenges that you had in terms of opening this up to general public. I'm sure health and safety was an absolute nightmare. What kind of challenges did you come across, and how did you overcome them? And what would be your advice for other attractions that were looking maybe to do similar or just looking at things that they already have that they could make more of?Andy Hygate: As an idea, I mean, what I would say to people is don't be afraid of an idea. And it was true, when we first came up with Walk the Woodie, and said, this is what we want to do, or we want to try and do it, before we'd even touched the ride or even looked at what the reality of doing of that, I do remember, I remember being told by several people, "You're not going to be able to do that. Not with the general public. It's not going to work." Then there's this problem, this problem, this problem and all that. And we kind of chipped away at those things and thought, well, okay. Well, we know that we do this every day with our staff, and how do they do it safely? And so what do they know that we don't?So we spoke to them and we started doing risk assessments and all the sort of boring stuff, I guess, but the stuff that you really do need to do. And then we did some practices. And we literally walked the entire track with a team of the operations staff in conjunction with engineering and worked out a way to make it work. And some of the challenges were one, yeah, because whenever you do anything different you have to convince some people that it's going to work. So you've got to make it, whatever you're doing, safe. But what I've found is that by actually physically having a go at stuff and getting input from other people and feedback and so on, in the case of Walk the Woodie, we were able to work out a route that we thought, yeah, actually we could do this with the general public.There were bits of it where there's some of the ride, you don't walk the entire track, you walk probably about a third of it during the experience. There was some bits of it where I thought, actually, I'm not sure that this is going to work really well with the public. I'm not sure what they would get out of that. I'm not sure if this is too challenging, this bit, and so on. And we sort of just crafted it into something which also had to work in a certain amount of time and so on. So I guess my advice would just be, don't be afraid to think about doing something that you haven't done before. We've got a great team of people that I work with in my department, and often it's just by chatting to people, you can come up with these ideas, which at first might sound silly or whatever. But I remember us talking about it and someone saying, "Wouldn't it be fun if we could walk in the footsteps of the engineers?"And that sounded really exciting, before you've even heard what it is. It's peeking behind the, I don't know, the curtain to see how things work and so on. And there's a natural sort of curiosity to do that. So I would say to any other attraction that they will have stuff which is unique to them, which people will be interested in having that experience. And the trouble with, I think, one of the things that we always warn our staff about just generally is that in terms of guest service in an amusement park, there's a massive difference between visiting an amusement park for one day as a guest maybe once or twice a year and going into an amusement park every single day because you work there.You have to be really careful when you work there you don't become complacent and you lose that air of magic that a guest will have when they go there just once or once a year or whatever. And so we do a lot of reinforcement with our own staff to make sure that they're remembering that that's the first time that the guests have seen that, when you might have seen it or experienced it 500 times. I think that aspect of it's quite important as well.Kelly Molson: That's really good advice, actually, and that's really interesting, isn't it? Because we always talk about that it's the people that make the experiences, but those people have to genuinely still be excited about it even though they've seen that thing 50 billion times. Because it's the visitor's first time they've seen it and they need to be equally as excited about it as that person that's seeing it for the first time.Andy Hygate: Absolutely. And then on these experiences, that aspect of it actually becomes easy and quite infectious. Because what you see, particularly with... We've involved some of our seasonal staff in delivering these events and they get massive amount out of it. And they learn a few facts or a few stories or whatever and they retell them. The reaction that they get from the people that are stood in front of them when they're stood on the ride talking about it is always positive and that builds their confidence. I've seen members of staff go from being shy and retiring to being stood 150 feet up The Big One, talking to the general public, answering questions, pointing out things on the horizon, all of that kind of stuff. And I'm quite proud of the fact that we've been able to achieve that, both for the guests and also for the staff as well.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's brilliant. It's really interesting as well, in a couple of weeks on from this episode we have an episode speaking to the London Transport Museum. And it's all about innovation and fostering a culture of innovation. And what you said earlier about don't be afraid to have those ideas and come up with those ideas with your team, I think that just goes to show that you have fostered a culture where people are comfortable to bring those kind of ideas to the front, regardless of how crazy they might seem at that point. But they're encouraged to bring those ideas to you and to see where they can go.Andy Hygate: Yeah. And we've been lucky that that also continues. I mean, Walk the Woodie, we are really excited about 2023 because the ride that you are basically walking, which is The Big Dipper rollercoaster, it's a hundred years old next year. So it's got a big birthday coming, a big centenary and so on. And so we were thinking about Walk the Woodie and thinking, well, actually, now that we've done it and we know how to do it and so on, what can we do differently? Because it's its birthday coming up and people are excited about it, enthusiasts know about it and they're expecting us to do something and so on. And so we started looking at what we could do differently. And so anyway, we've come up with a product for one year only for next year, which is a version of Walk the Woodie but it's called Walk the Woodie 100, for obvious reasons. And we're going to do it differently.And so again, it's about not just resting on our laurels. We've come up with something which is we think guests are going to like. We went through a very similar process to how we came up with the original idea, but we went back to the idea and thought, well, actually, what can we do that we didn't do last time, and what would be different? And we've now got the experience of we had people telling us what they liked about it and so on. And so I'm not going to tell you exactly what we're doing because we want it to be a bit of a surprise. But we are going to do something different with it next year. So people that have done it before can come and they will have a different experience, and people that don't know anything about it or whatever and maybe they're hearing about it on this, I don't know, will come and have a hundredth birthday special version of the experience.So it's always about innovation and keeping things moving and trying to come up with other stuff. And in this particular instance, the fact that it's a ride's hundredth birthday, which is a big deal, really, for a ride, was the motivator, but it could be for any other reason as well.Kelly Molson: Love it. Again, brilliant advice, Andy. It is about coming up with these unique ideas with things that you already have, generating that repeat interest from people that have been on it once but can come back and do it. And then you are expanding on that again by developing on the experience because there's a big event or a big thing happening that year. I think it's such good advice for attractions. So thank you for sharing today. What else have you got coming up? Is there anything else that's coming next?Andy Hygate: We're always looking. I mean, obviously, Walk the Woodie 100 is the big thing. We've done Walk the Woodie, but we haven't done it in the way that we're going to do it. And I think making it unique just for one year, so we're only going to do it like this for one year, it's kind of a cool thing. But I haven't mentioned our other experience, which is Walk the Big One XL, which I probably should because in a way that's a similar kind of... We only introduced that in 2022 and so that's a relatively new version. But what we did with that, and so this will be the second year that we've offered this, basically was quite targeted. And it was targeted at enthusiasts, and I've said that I'm a ride enthusiast, and so we knew that there was this demand there for people to find out more. And Walk the Big One, it's an amazing experience, but it's done in an hour.You're here and gone in an hour, which is fine for a lot of people, but for enthusiasts they might want to know a little bit more and they might want to see some other locations around the ride. So again, we revisited Walk the Big One and thought, actually, what is it that we can do differently that would specifically target that group of people that want to see more or want to know more in depth information? And so again, we went and looked at the ride. Again, we were careful not to get blinded by the fact that we see things like the break run every day. So for us that's not a big deal. But actually for a guest to come and stand on the break run, learn about the station design, learn why it's the way it is, how we put trains on and off the ride and so on, to them is actually really interesting because that's not something that they get to see or hear about every day.And so we worked out a way to take people to different locations on the ride, including a couple of locations that we've never been to really with guests before. Which we've got a platform, and because The Big One is a gravity driven ride, like a lot of rollercoasters. So what that means, in case you don't know, is the train is taken up to its highest point, usually with the click click click noise. It's on a chain and that's the anti-rollback because you don't want to go backwards down the hill. And then when the train is released at the top, it's free-rolling. And there's no brakes on the train, it's only when it goes to a block section, which is either partway round or near the end of the ride, that you can actually stop the train. So a rollercoaster, particularly in our case, which are built right next to the sea, can be affected by wind and so on.And you have to make sure that in the event that a train dipped or didn't make the course, maybe it was slowed down by the wind or whatever, although we do monitor that while we're operating, obviously. But on the rare occasion that something like that could happen that you could get people off. So what that means is you have platforms around the ride, where if the ride stopped for whatever reason, again, gravity would kick in, the train would stop at the lowest point, and you've got to be able to go and get to that train and take people off. And so we thought, well, wouldn't it be cool if you could take people to those locations and they can stand on them and get to go... Again, bits where you would never normally get to go anywhere near. So we take people on, we take them to the brakes first, as I said, then we take them out onto... There's one that has a particularly good view of the beach and the sea and so on.So we deliberately, because it's the most photogenic, we take people there and they get to stand on the platform next to the track and they get some amazing photos that you would never, again, never normally be able to get. And then we take them to the block brake. And we were quite deliberate in this, in that we were increasing the height throughout the experience. And so each location that you went to was higher up than the one before. So it effectively gets more exciting as the event goes on. And the block brake's 110 feet off the ground or whatever. If you've been to the ride, you think that's near the end of the ride. It's not that exciting. And people, when you walk them up, are suddenly shocked at actually how tall it is and the view that you get across the whole park. You get, again, these wonderful photos. And the feedback that we get from guests when we do that is that it is just we couldn't believe that they were able to be up in that location.And then we end, effectively, with the regular Walk the Big One. So we take people right to the top of the ride. It's a much longer experience. The whole thing lasts about 90 minutes. If you're a coaster geek, then you're going to love hearing all of this. And the fact that you get to go to all of these places. And we deliberately walk people through the staff route through the park rather than the guest route through the park.Kelly Molson: That's cool.Andy Hygate: Again, they get to see bits that they would never normally get to walk and so on. And again, it'll be our second year of doing it. If you are a rollercoaster enthusiast and you come on Walk the Big One XL, we're hopefully going to deliver you a proper geeky in-depth look at how a rollercoaster is operated. And again, going right back to the start of it, it's offering an experience that... You're almost offering, although you do have to pay for it, it's almost like a money can't buy experience. Because to be able to do that is really rare.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I guess as you were talking, when you were talking about taking guests through the operators' way through and not the guests' way through, I was like, it's really an alignment to being a zookeeper for the day and being behind the scenes on that kind of thing, that kind of level.Andy Hygate: Yes, absolutely. You go through a gate that to us is a gate that we go through every day and we are not bothered about it, but to a guest it's somewhere in the park they've never set foot in before. It's underneath the structure of another ride. They can get a photo of somewhere where they wouldn't be able to go normally. All of that stuff, all that which just adds to that feeling of, one, it makes the person feel special because they're being given information and a look at stuff that they could never normally see. And two, they're getting this experience that runs alongside it that's just really, hopefully for them a really memorable experience. And then they get all this other stuff, optional stuff at the end of it as well.And I think one of the big bits of feedback that we have about it, and it was interesting that you said about the people, and I do think that you can take people to all of these cool places. The bit that brings it alive is the staff talking about it. Particularly when it's staff that work on the ride and have that knowledge of the ride and know the park and all of that kind of stuff. It's those bits and pieces that when we get feedback about this, and they're the bits that people really love and really latch onto. And yeah, I'm pleased that we're able to deliver that for people.Kelly Molson: Oh, it's brilliant. I've loved talking to you, Andy. This has been so interesting to hear about. I love how passionately you talk about it. You genuinely love it and it really comes across when you talk.Andy Hygate: Hopefully, I mean, roller coasters are fun ultimately, aren't they? But to be able to do these kind of things with roller... I think back, I was saying when I was a kid going to Dreamland or whatever, if I could have walked up the roller coaster in Dreamland, I would've been the happiest kid in the world. So we are trying to offer that, I guess, now to-Kelly Molson: Well, there you go. Andy, you've got your big birthday coming up. I hope you're listening, Dreamland, because you know what will make Andy happy for his birthday. You should do a little hookup, maybe do a little trade with their team and your team.Andy Hygate: I'd love to.Kelly Molson: Brilliant. Andy, what book have you got to share with us today? We always ask our guests to share a book with our listeners.Andy Hygate: Yeah, I've picked a book by a director, a film director called Derek Jarman. And it's a book called Modern Nature. And don't worry, it's got nothing to do with camping or anything like that. He's sort of an inspirational person to me. But why it's important to me is actually it's based around... The guy lived effectively in a beach hut in Dungeness, which is down in Kent, which is where I'm from originally, in a situation which is considered by many to be... It's somewhere that's not that far from where my parents live. It's probably about 20 minutes drive.And to some people you would describe, particularly in the winter, you'd describe it as blink. And it's a pebble beach and so on. And there's something about the English coastline and beaches and so on that I really like. And I like the fact that we have seasons. I like Blackpool in the summer, but I actually like it in the winter as well. This book is kind of like a diary, really, about how he's built a pebble garden, because it is literally on the beach, in the shadow of a nuclear power station, which sounds horrible, but actually I think it's a really inspirational thing. And I think you can see beauty in stuff which is unconventional and so on.And the fact that he's managed to build a pebble garden and have plants in an area which is a harsh environment that can be seen as bleak, but actually I think there's great beauty in that. And that all comes across in that book and its very inspirational, conversational style makes it a really memorable book for me. And it's also somewhere where whenever I go back to Kent, I always go down there for fish and chips. And there's something, it sounds really strange, but sitting in the car in the winter, having fish and chips and listening to the power station humming in the background, it's actually really sort of reassuring. I don't know.Kelly Molson: It's not an experience I've ever had, Andy. I feel like I'm going to have to add that one to my list.Andy Hygate: No, I realise that sounds really odd, but I guess I've got an emotional connection to that place as well. And the fact that someone's written a whole book about it and their connection to it is what connects with me. So yeah, that's probably my choice.Kelly Molson: I think that is a great book choice, Andy. I've never heard of that book, but I'm absolutely going to check it out. Listeners, if you want to win a copy of Andy's book, you know what to do. Go over to our Twitter account, retweet this episode announcement, and you'll be in with a chance of winning it. Andy, it's been an absolute pleasure to chat with you today. I think this is a wonderful podcast to start the new year off on. So thank you for coming on and sharing with us. And I look forward to joining you up in Blackpool at some point to Walk the Woodie.Andy Hygate: Yeah, you must do. Looking forward to it. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very much.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned.Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast..

Castle Howard through the lens. What it's like to film a TV production at a visitor attraction.

Reverse Swept Radio - a cricket podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 30, 2022 51:23

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.castlehoward.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbi-ollive-411509171/https://www.channel4.com/programmes/castle-howard-through-the-seasonsCastle Howard's love story with China - as told by Abbigail Ollive Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with, visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson.In today's episode, I speak with my very first returning guest, Abbigail Ollive, Head of Marketing, Sales, and Programming at Castle Howard, the stately home and visitor attraction in North Yorkshire. Abbi takes us on a journey through the seasons at Castle Howard as she explains just what it's like to film a TV production at a visitor attraction as she shares her advice for other attractions that are thinking about doing the same.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the user channels by searching Skip the Queue.I am very excited to have Abbigail Ollive back on the podcast today.Abbigail Ollive: To be the first returner. It mustn't have put you off too much first time round.Kelly Molson: Well, I think it's more like I didn't put you off, because you were episode six of season one, which was all the way back in 2019. And I didn't ask people icebreaker questions then, so you might regret this after this. Who knows? First one, what is the strangest or worst gift that you've ever received?Abbigail Ollive: Last Christmas, my partner basically took Christmas as an opportunity to solve anything I'd been moaning about. So my Christmas presents were things like those little hand warmers, because I'd obviously been complaining that my hands were cold. And I'd been complaining about my drive to work here at Castle Howard in rural North Yorkshire sometimes being a little bit hairy. So my Christmas present was winter tires and a four by four driving experience to try, which at the time I was like, I really would've loved a baking experience or a pizza making course or something, and I was pretty grumpy about going.But it actually turned out to be a really excellent gift and I had a fab time. I feel like I'm qualified now to drive people through a field or through a stream if they need, and I know how to use my ridiculous rural vehicle. So I was a bit grumpy about it, because I was like, it's very kind but it feels like you really wanted to come and do this.Kelly Molson: It's quite thoughtful though, isn't it? That's quite a well thought out gift.Abbigail Ollive: I guess so.Kelly Molson: He's been listening. He's just interpreted it in a slightly more original way than you were expecting.Abbigail Ollive: See, that sounds very ungrateful, doesn't it? And I did have a fab time, but I have dropped some hints this year about... I guess I've decided to complain about different stuff. In case that gets resolved in a different way.Kelly Molson: I'm running out of mascara.Abbigail Ollive: My shoulders are really tense. I think a massage might really help me this year.Kelly Molson: Like it. Yeah, I'm running out of mascara, if anyone's listening. I need some of that on my shopping list. Spa day would be excellent. My shoulders feel tense too. I like this subtle hint dropping.If you could only listen to one album for the rest of your life, what would it be?Abbigail Ollive: Whenever people ask me like, what's your taste in music? It's just very eclectic. And at the minute I am listening on repeat to Self Esteem, who I think is just amazing. I don't know if you are at all familiar with her. She's called Rebecca, she's from Rotherham, where my dad is from. I don't think many pop stars have come out of Rotherham, South Yorkshire. But give her album a listen.We saw her at a festival when she was quite up and coming, and she's just done Jools Holland and is now on a bigger tour next year. We booked again to see her. And it's just hugely empowering. I think for younger women, teenagers kind of finding their way through what can be quite a complex time, I just think her lyrics and her whole approach to empowerment is really, really inspiring.I don't know whether that'd be the one I'd listened to forever, but it is on repeat in my car on my journey to work constantly at the moment. And that's my top tip I think. Give her a listen. She's very cool.Kelly Molson: Did you combine that album with the off-road driving as well at the weekend to give you a little bit of an extra boost?Abbigail Ollive: No, I think maybe empowerment but, yes. Women driving through fields in pickups.Kelly Molson: Awesome. Good response. Okay, final one. If you could bring back any fashion trend, what would it be?Abbigail Ollive: I think I was meant to be in the 1950s. I think that kind of grease styling is... I'd love to just look like that every day, really, if I could get away with it and if I had time to properly do my hair in rollers and all of that jazz. I think that's the period I'd probably go back to and I think be quite into, that sort of retro 50s. Really bright. I like the bright, vibrant... I'd happily drive an American pink Cadillac through the country roads of North Yorkshire.Kelly Molson: I remember this about you. You're all about colour. I do remember this about you when we met in person. You love a colour and you love a patterned dress, an excellently patterned dress.Abbigail Ollive: Yeah, I do. And I wish I could suit a hat better. Some people are like... My brother's always in a very cool hat, but I just don't suit it. I think it's the fringe. The fringe, glasses, hat combo is one I can't pull off.Kelly Molson: Fringe with a wooly hat is really difficult, isn't it? Because it just pushes it down into your eyes. I'd like to be a hat person as well. I feel like people that wear hats, they just exude confidence. Do you know what I mean? Just have that... They walk with confidence. They walk high with a hat on. I'd quite like that too.That's good choices. All right, what about your unpopular opinion, Abbi, because we've never had one of these from you.Abbigail Ollive: No, we haven't. And I'm sure I've got plenty I could share, I mean, my initial instinct with this was, I would never be upset if I didn't ever hear an Oasis song again, but that's not the one I'm going to go with. Sorry.It's a podcast related one. I thought I'd be topical. I really hate comedians on podcasts. I just can't be doing with all the trying to be funny and all the chat in between what it is they're actually meant to be talking about. I love the foodie podcast, but I just want them to cut to the chase and I want to hear somebody talk about something they're knowledgeable about. Maybe I just don't really comedians in general, but on a podcast that's my unpopular opinion.Kelly Molson: Do you think it's because they're trying a bit too hard because that's their job and they're trying to... If a supplier comes on and they're trying to plug their thing, they're trying to plug their I'm funny, really?Abbigail Ollive: I think it's just like... I was going to try and not name names, but I'm quite a foodie and I like a foodie podcast and I think maybe I've realized that actually I want to hear about the food and not all the chat that surrounds it. So yeah, comedians on podcasts.Kelly Molson: All right, good one. Glad I'm not funny or I'd be right [inaudible 00:06:53].Abbigail Ollive: Well, I'm not either, so we'll have no comedy. We'll just get the questions.Kelly Molson: That's it. We're done now. We're done with anything humorous for the rest of the episode. Excellent. Thanks for setting the tone.Abbi, just for our listeners that don't know of you, I'm sure there's not many, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.Abbigail Ollive: I at the moment am very fortunate to be kind of running the visitor attraction side of things at Castle Howard. So anybody who hasn't heard of Castle Howard, Castle Howard is a stately home in North Yorkshire. It was designed by Sir John Vanbrugh in 1699, so it's a historic house open as a visitor attraction, but also sits within a 9,000 acre estate. It's still home to the Howard family, they are directly my line managers, and Castle Howard's opened 364 days a year as an attraction.But I think it's also a really interesting place. I arrived here knowing that I was coming to be involved in a visitor attraction, but I think maybe it was more of a pleasant surprise that we're actually foresters and farmers and we have a holiday park and holiday cottages and a farm shop and a garden centre and all the catering and retail outlets as well.I think in total it's nine different businesses, and my role kind of heads up marketing and events and programming and sales and that kind of visitor experience side of things. I'm not actually being asked to be responsible for the farming and forestry, you'll be relieved to hear, but it's also just unlocks so many stories that as a marketer at heart, I guess, is really exciting on a daily basis.We're not a charity, so all the income generated by footfall and visitors paying for an admission ticket goes directly into the restoration and heritage of the building and the listed landscape.I've been here for just over five years, so I'm just in the middle of Christmas number six. It's a joyous time to be at a place like Castle Howard, when it's all decked out for Christmas and we're welcoming literally thousands of visitors a day over this festive season.Big day today. It's a kind of rainy, North Yorkshire, midweek day, but we've got 11 coaches here and they're all having a fabulous time. And I've just had a message saying, can someone come and help with the Queues in the bauble emporium? So that's the kind of thing that can occur on an hourly basis.But yeah, I'm Yorkshire, so I haven't actually moved very far. Not deliberately, but just because stuff's come up here, and it's a gorgeous place in the world to be. I've got a little boy, so living in the countryside and having quite an outdoorsy life really suits us. My background's in theatre, but theatre marketing and comms, so did 10 years in theater before moving across into visitor attractions, which is just a theatre of a different kind, I think.Kelly Molson: It is. It's a show, isn't it? You're creating a theatre for people that come and visit. And that leads us a little bit to what we're going to talk about today, really, a show of a slightly different kind.I think there's been a bit of a run of programs like this. I'm talking about programs like the Secret Life of the Zoo at Chester Zoo, Inside the Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo. There's been quite a lot of zoo related TV programs on recently that give you a bit of a snapshot of behind the scenes. I think One Zoo Three was the other one from Paradise Wildlife Park. But you have been involved in shooting TV programs for Channel 4, called Castle Howard: Through the Seasons. Tell us a little bit about what the TV series is, and then tell us what on earth made you decide to be part of a TV program.Abbigail Ollive: I suppose dialing back a little bit from the TV show we've just been making this year is... I guess Castle Howard's one of the original screen tourism destinations and has been in some pretty iconic period dramas. It's very well known as Brideshead Revisited, both the 1981 Granada TV show and then the later movie in 2008. And we had our Bridgerton moment, so series one, episode six, or episode sex, as most people know it in Bridgerton, was all films here at Castle Howard. And I could definitely tell you plenty of stories from that few weeks of my life that I'll never forget.But I think we're kind of used to being a location, and Castle Howard plays its own part in a period drama. It's almost a character in its own rights, and we've been in plenty of them. And we've also filmed the Arctic Monkeys music video here from their most recent album, and we've also played host to an American TV reality show, which was... I describe it as kind of Love Island with a Regency twist, which recently someone said should be the name of a cocktail, which I [inaudible 00:11:57]. That was an American reality TV show.But I think it's the first time then that we've actually considered seriously and gone ahead with us being the subject of what is being filmed, and I think that's the big difference really for us with an observational documentary or, ob doc, as it's known in the business.There were a few things really that made us decide to go ahead with that, and you've mentioned already a couple of those really reassuring series that happened, mostly zoo related, that made us feel like actually there's a real warmth and positivity to how they're not trying to stitch you up, they're trying to tell a really positive story about your people and your attraction.I think that's maybe changed over the last few years. So we'd seen Chatsworth go first really, they opened their doors and did a year in the life at Chatsworth, and that actually ended up being during the pandemic, so it was a very unusual year in the life of Chatsworth, in that a lot of the time it was during lockdown. But even through that challenging period of time, when we watched it as viewers, we could see that that team had really taken a lot of care to tell Chatsworth stories and to be really respectful and positive about the whole estate.I think that that was a huge reassurance for us. I think in the past I've had loads of filming inquiries over my time here and we've really avoided the sort of fly on the wall documentaries. I think there's been a general perception and nervousness that they want to stitch you up. And also, for me, the format only really works if you have the buy-in and the involvement of Nick and Vicky Howard, who are the custodians of this place, and have them authentically involved. And I think they had seen in years gone by maybe some not so positive examples and that had put them off the idea.I think we started talking to the ITN team who'd been working with Chatsworth during the pandemic, and it was a real slow burn. It was about building that relationship and having meetings with them, them getting to know me and the Howards, and talking really about what the stories were that we wanted to tell.They came to us originally as part of their Christmas series they were doing, so last year when we had Narnia as our Christmas theme, they made a four part series across four different houses and we were one of those, so it was a more intensive Christmas at Castle Howard experience first off, and that's been quite different to then them coming back and being here all year.But I think it's definitely, I'd say, we said no quite a lot before eventually we said maybe, and then over the course of probably a year of meetings and building trust and really bottoming out what we all want to get out of it, we eventually said yes. And I think in that time as well we'd seen things released like Secret Life at the Zoo.I think our other main concern or nervousness about saying yes was we were sort of waiting for a vintage year at Castle Howard. We knew that coming out of the pandemic, everything's been challenging and difficult and we felt like, maybe next year or in a couple years time we'll be doing a really big significant bit of restoration to a monument or we've got plans to reinstate some of our burnt out rooms after the fire that Castle Howard suffered during the war.I think we felt like there's going to be a big story to tell, and we better hold off for that moment in Castle Howard's history before we let the TV cameras in. And I think actually what changed that was the pandemic and thinking, well, actually, in any kind of normal or abnormal year we have amazing people, we have amazing stories to tell. Sometimes it's those smaller stories of truly getting under the skin of the life in a country estate like this that viewers will ultimately really enjoy. So we stopped holding off for that perfect moment and went for it.Kelly Molson: It's interesting though, because you're thinking about, I guess, once you agree to go ahead with something like this, you are thinking constantly about, how entertaining is this actually going to be? Is just our day to day stuff that goes on all the time, is that enough for people? Are they going to actually tune in and watch it? And how is that going to... I guess there's a thought all the time about how we're going to be portrayed and how will that come across. So if you hold out for this room needs renovation or looking after, that gives you a focus that will detract from just some of the normal stuff that would be happening.Abbigail Ollive: We actually started with ITN and Channel 4 in 2020, and we were trying to pull off a Christmas in the middle of COVID. When the tiering system and all that business came in, we couldn't go ahead, like many attractions and houses. So we started making a TV program about... I was billed on this... I was definitely shown as head of saving Christmas, and then we had to cancel it, so we canceled the whole thing and we took the difficult decision actually that it wasn't going to be the show we wanted it to be. We mutually agreed, really, to pull out of that, because we didn't want a show about trying to make a big Christmas happen and then the government saying, "You're in the wrong tier, you can't open," and a show of about how disappointing that was. So we took that decision.Actually, that was a gamble at the time because I thought maybe that would be that done, really, but they agreed to come back the following year and make Christmas in Narnia as a documentary. I think it's definitely had its ups and downs over quite a period of time. So, again, that build of trust and them getting to know us during the year that didn't happen. I think they saw enough potential to think, actually, we'll come back and go again. But all of that's really challenging when they and us have put budget and resource into a whole period of filming that we then pull the plug on.Kelly Molson: Yeah, of course. And by no fault of your own. Actually, there was nothing that you really could do about it. You made the right decision at the time.I guess I just want to step back a little bit, because you said that you... I can't remember if you said that you were approached by them or if you approached them to talk about it, and how do you work out what the focus of the TV show will be about?Abbigail Ollive: I'd been approached by quite a number of observational documentary companies, and I'd met with quite a few, and it was this exec producer who'd been working with Chatsworth, and we'd seen a bit of what they'd done at Chatsworth, that made us agree and further that conversation with this particular production company, which is ITN for Channel 4.We've been approached a lot, and continue to be, actually, and I think, like you said, at the beginning, there's a real rise, isn't there, in these sort of observational documentaries at places within the visitor attractions sector. So we didn't actively go out to try and do this, I suppose we were courted and approached and took a little bit of persuading.Kelly Molson: I guess everyone that's going to be part of this has to be really comfortable with being on camera, right, because they're going to be recording for a whole year at your venue, so you've got to get used to people being around, you've got to be able to run your events around while all this filming is happening as well. So it's not a quick decision to make at all by any means.Abbigail Ollive: No, there's a lot to think about, actually. And I think we made sure we'd properly thought about that and met and bashed a lot of that out internally before we started. I think the things that made us most nervous were around control and editorial control and how much of that you just have to relinquish and how much we would be allowed to input into the storytelling and storyboarding. I think there was that, but also the ability for us to resource it.Like you've said, it's no small thing to take on. We're quite a small team, we're still doing everything we need to do in a normal year, pulling off big events and big projects, and having a film crew with you three to four days a week every week of pretty much a year, is quite intense.I think what we tried to do to overcome that was before anybody had a camera put in front of them, we tried to do a really good amount of kickoff meetings with all stakeholders, with the producers. We were really, really clear with them about our ambitions and the key messages we wanted to communicate by having a year in the life at Castle Howard filmed. It was an opportunity for us to communicate that real conservation aim and the fact we have a conservation deficit, we're not a charity, it was a really good opportunity for us to communicate where visitors' admission fees go.It's really powerful to actually see somebody restoring a chimney or repainting windows, and understand what resource has to go into that. And that's across the board, across the whole estate. So I think sometimes that's hard to communicate, actually, with visitors, but having this mass market platform to do that.We were really, really clear about what we wanted to get out of it and what actually goes into running a rural estate and managing that in the 21st century coming out of the pandemic with all the wider world landscape going on as well around us. That was really important, actually, that we felt respected and like the TV crew and their producers understood what we wanted to get out of it. I think that's really helped throughout the whole year, that they can go, "This scene that we're filming now, that really relates and helps tell that story from your objectives." So yeah, that was certainly helpful.Kelly Molson: That's great, isn't it? That they're so aligned with your objectives that they're actually highlighting things that reference back to them as you're shooting. Because sometimes you might think that gets discussed at the top and then it gets parked and then we might not think about that again until it gets to editing stage and by that point there's so much content, how are they going to really get the message across that we want them to? And I guess that comes forward to one of the questions about that content and the editing process and how much of that were you involved in as you go through the filming.You've had those initial conversations about objectives, but were there any times where something was happening and they were shooting, and in your head you're watching this thing unfold in front of you going, "This cannot go out on telly, and they're really going to want this to go out on telly and that's not going to happen at all"?Abbigail Ollive: That has changed throughout the year. We've all learned a lot as the year has progressed. We started very structured and I planned out everything to within an inch of it's life. For last Christmas I kind of diarised everything the film crew were going to be attending, made sure we had pre-meetings with everybody involved, made sure departments were all on board and had key messages and understood what we were trying to get out of every scene. I pretty much storyboarded the whole episode, and I remember the producer saying to me, "We don't normally get quite this level of input from the team on the ground."I think I'm just a bit of a control freak, because I can't have people just wandering around with a camera, who knows what they'll discover. But actually I think what I quickly discovered is that that doesn't always make the best TV, and they're experts, they're really good at what they do, and I just needed to learn to trust that we were all actually aiming for the same outcome. They weren't trying to sneak around and find stuff that I didn't want to be filmed.Actually, as the year's gone on, I think by the time we got to the Christmas episode, which they only left last week and are busy editing that now to turn it around, they knew the Castle Howard team so well and our team knew the Channel 4 team so well and are so used to them being around, it just has needed a lot less input from me and my team. They really had a sense of workflows around who's responsible for what. They felt like an extension of our team as the year has gone on and we've really built that trust, so I had no issue then with them kind of going off and filming something happening without me being present, because I'd learned to really trust them. I can't really do this chat without mentioning Peacockgate.Kelly Molson: Please.Abbigail Ollive: I think that's an example really early on where it was a day where on my schedule we were having a historic paint specialist scraping off layers of the paint on Castle Howard's windows to try and discover what the original amber colour would be, because we're now in the process of repainting all of the external woodwork, which needed doing, and white paint didn't actually exist then and so was never the colour that Castle Howard would've been painted on the windows and woodwork.We had this amazing guy doing his historical paint scraping, which is what I had the Channel 4 crew focused on, because I thought that would make a very interesting restoration story. And then got the call from World War III that appeared to be kicking off in the car park because it was breeding season for our peacocks. We've got about 20 peacocks on the estate and, well, we think there was a male interloper to our peacock gang. I don't know where he came from, but this male peacock was very rowdy and very randy, and was seeing his reflection in cars, so in the visitor car park. Any kind of car, especially if it was a dark colour or blue and was clean. So luckily my car was always very safe, it's never clean. It was seeing its reflection and trying to attack what it thought was a rival peacock.I've got the person who looks after our security on high alert trying to basically chase a peacock out of the car park, and people very concerned that both staff cars and visitor cars were going to get damaged. So this was all kicking off and I was like, "Right, everybody keep the Channel 4 team focused on the windows. Do not let them come anywhere near what's occurring up here." Because I could see our head garden running around with what can only be described as a giant butterfly net, like something a Victorian explorer, trying to literally catch and net a peacock.Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly and the peacock got onto one of our staff cars and smashed in the back windscreen. So it became actually not that funny quite quickly, because then we were suddenly into a really difficult scenario. The person involved was very upset, as you can imagine, and from an animal welfare point of view we didn't want to do anything to the peacock that... This is during visitor opening hours and, of course, on the day where we had the Rolls Royce Society coming on a trip. So we then suddenly had to pull off people from various parts of the attraction to go and be Rolls Royce security. They didn't even notice the peacock, they thought we were giving them such an amazing service, they were delighted. They couldn't believe the amount of security we have in our car park.So, all this was kicking off, and we had a couple of emergency senior management meetings assembled that day to decide what ultimately the different options were. And in this meeting we discussed what should we do about the Channel 4 film crew, and everybody's instinct was, we're now involved with insurers, the insurers are saying, "It's a wild animal, so we can't really help you." But we'd just put on social media in National Gardening Week the week before that the head gardener has names for all the peacocks and has hand reared them, so there was kind of an insurance argument going on.We love the peacocks, and visitors absolutely love the peacocks, and they make Castle Howard really unique, so it's really difficult when you've told that story.It was like Jurassic Park, I'm not joking. It was absolutely carnage. All the peacocks then got wind of the fact that someone was trying to catch one of the crew and they started... There's a video from inside the main house, which Nick Howard took, of them all lined up on the windows pecking the glass. And I was thinking, they're now going to actually smash in the windows. They just went feral.But in this meeting we had this big debate then. This is all quite unusual, I guess, maybe not on a Tuesday in whatever it was, April, May. And I brought it up in this meeting, I said, "What are we going to do about Channel 4? We're not going to be able to keep this secret, really. We have to decide whether it's something where happy to let them film and cover, what's it's reality, it's what's going on."And Vicky Howard, to her credit, she said, "I think it's going to make excellent TV. If you're doing a year in the life at Castle Howard, you want to show some of the slightly more quirky things that go on." And it was reality, it was what happening. So we made the call to their exec producer and explained what was going on, and then obviously you won't be surprised to hear in episode one, which was aired week before last, the historic restoration of the windows does not make the cut, but the whole story of the peacock, which went from the sublime to the ridiculous over the next few days, does make the cut, and we've now got peacock merchandise in the gift shop for Christmas, and he's famous.Kelly Molson: You capitalised on every element. I love it.Abbigail Ollive: Yeah, we have. I think that's a good example. You've asked how... At the point where we go, I think we need to relinquish control. I can't storyboard this within an inch of its life. I can't actually control everything I want them to film. And this is going to make great TV.Kelly Molson: I mean, it makes great TV, but it also makes a great talk. I'm not going to lie listeners, I have heard this story before and I had to go on to speak after Abbi shared this with the room, so you can imagine just how my talk bummed the room. Outdone by a peacock. Thank you.Abbigail Ollive: I didn't think we were doing Secret life of the Zoo here, but as it turned out.Kelly Molson: Who knew? It's a brilliant story. I think what you said is, you just at some point have to relinquish control, because it is going to make good telly. It's a bonkers thing that happened that day, you had no way of... There was no part of planning that that was going to happen. It wasn't a normal thing that happens every day. Yes, you've got peacocks, but they don't normally go feral and start smashing up cars. What could have made for a better TV moment than that?Other than Peacockgate, is there anything else that surprised you about the process of the filming?Abbigail Ollive: Maybe that the people you think are going to be great characters sometimes aren't, and those who are really reluctant to feature and would naturally run a mile if you try to put them in front of a TV camera, often make the best TV. I think finding your stars and the really authentic people who are incredibly passionate about what they do. And in a place like Castle Howard those are people around every corner, people who are been working here for four generations and have amazing passion and connection with the place. And then those people who have really unusual skills, like my paint specialist, or people who are just doing incredibly niche things.I think it's not hard to find the stories, but I think it was that, really. There were people who I was trying to navigate the cameras away from and then there was really willing people who... I put myself in that category, I didn't mind at all being on film, but I think I just come across as a Blue Peter presenter, and actually there are funnier, more authentic, lovely people shining through on the series that we had to coerce a little bit more into being involved.I think that, again, it all comes back to the thing I said earlier about building trust. Our producers had a really good instinct for that. I think they managed really skillfully to get under the skin of the organisation, and by relinquishing control a bit and letting them do what they do really well and trusting their judgment, they ended up putting some of our people and scenarios and stories on TV that I definitely wouldn't have storyboarded, I don't think.Kelly Molson: I guess we talked about editing and control and stuff and relinquishing that a little bit earlier, but the series is out now, we'll give everyone the dates and we'll tell them where they can find it in a little while, but did you get the opportunity to watch it before it's been out live for people?Abbigail Ollive: It was a really small team of us who had a low res proof and we were allowed to, within the contract, check all of the facts and also have an opinion and push back on anything we thought might be reputationally damaging. And actually we changed a few facts and corrected people on some stuff. But I think we've been really pleased, actually, with the way in which it was edited and we haven't pushed back all that much.I think being able to watch it and absorb it a couple of times before giving the sign off, has been a really helpful layer. There were no massive surprises then when it's aired to a million people on TV, because there's already been a layer of fact checking. For me, that's about making sure people's job titles are correct or they're referred to in the right way. I don't want someone to have put a lot of time and effort into a filming sequence and then be called the wrong thing or credited in the wrong way, so I had that layer of editorial input. But ultimately what ends up in and what ends up not in is totally up to them.I think that's just one of the learnings, really. It's about managing people's expectations. The dog festival we do every year is a good example. We spent a whole weekend, and actually the weeks leading up to it, covering that as a story and lots of filming, lots of people being asked to do bits on camera and the various suppliers and providers we had at that big event, and it didn't make the cut at all. It's just because if they're here for the whole year, they decide, probably because of the peacock, actually, but they decide what flows in terms of their narrative, and we have to just manage people's expectations in that. Helpful for me to see it, so I can also do that, because I don't want everyone sat at home on a Saturday night watching for their bit and me knowing it's not in there.Kelly Molson: God, can you imagine? So you imagine that your paint history guy ready for his big moment, and then the peacock takes over. Yeah, that's an awful.Abbigail Ollive: I think internal communication, and I'm sort spending a lot of time, or have spent a lot of time, persuading people to be involved in filming, and then I have to do the bit of time explaining to people that, thanks for going above and beyond to organise that thing so we could film it, actually it's now not in the show.But I think one of the other things that it's maybe, I don't know if it's a surprise or not, but Castle Howard and a year in the life here is a microcosm for what's happening in the real world. And one of the other things we discussed quite a bit off camera as a senior team was how much we sugarcoat our narrative and want to look amazing and brilliant and positive, and in the end we decided it's better to be really transparent. You see our senior management team then in meetings with the cameras in the room, talking about how visitor numbers haven't been what we forecasted over the summer and cost of living crisis and the things that are happening in the real world.Because I think the risk was is that people would maybe watch this and think, "Well, they've got no grip on reality and what the challenges are that people are facing." So I think we had to just be very authentic and real.And we did debate that quite a lot, actually, because it's perhaps a slightly more exposing or brave thing to go, "Well, yeah, come into the senior management meeting, we're going to discuss the figures, we're going to discuss the reforecast. This is why we think numbers have perhaps dropped off. This is what we're going to do about it." And I think, hopefully, that gives viewers the sense of what goes into the running of the business.You see our, amazingly, they agreed to be filmed, you see our Ukrainian refugee family arriving in an estate cottage next week on the autumn episode, and it reflects what's happening on the estate here is what's happening in the rest of the world. And unbelievably as well, some of it's, like you said, some of it's luck and you couldn't plan exactly where the cameras were going to be at what point, but they were filming a senior management meeting at the moment where the announcement came through of the Queen's death, so they film the reaction to that as it's happening. And that could have happened at 10:00 at night when nobody was even in the building.Some of it is luck and a lot is planned, but it really is a reflection, I think, on the mood of the nation and what else is happening in the wider sector and political landscape and everything else. So I think, again, how I approached it was, we've got all these great stories to tell and this is who I want in it and what I want to feature, but actually as life happens and as the year progressed, you couldn't have planned half the things that have ended up in the show.Kelly Molson: No, not at all. But it does give it that authenticity about this is real, this is actually happening and this is our lives. It's not just a TV show.One thing that struck me, actually, was, when I was watching, there was a moment where one of the senior management teams said, "Look, I think we rule out the fact that overseas visitors are not coming. That's it." And it really made me think back about the last time you came on the podcast, which was in 2019, and when you came on then it was talking about the love affair that Castle Howard has with China and the amount of visitors that were driving through from a famous wedding that you'd had at the castle. And I just thought that is a complete and utter contrast, isn't it, to the things that we are now talking about now and that process and that experience that you've been through to get to this point.Abbigail Ollive: Because some of those foundations that we've really relied upon in terms of generating income, like our Chinese market, when that rug's pulled from under you, I think it's made us be maybe a bit more brave and risk taking in grasping opportunities that maybe we wouldn't have done in 2019. And I'd say this filming project is one of those, I absolutely put that in the category. We're in a position where we know some of those income streams aren't coming back, so putting ourselves in front of a huge audience and grasping that PR opportunity this year, I think is a direct result of how the world's changed in the last couple of years.Kelly Molson: Yeah, for sure. So, reflecting on the experience that you've been through, and it has literally just finished, you said that that they're now hastily editing the Christmas episode to go out soon, or winter episode, what advice would you give to other attractions that are thinking maybe we'll do it, maybe we'll start to have those conversations?Abbigail Ollive: Hopefully got a few nuggets. And also really happy to talk to anybody who is in the process of going into this, having now had some lived experience of it. But I think if you're open to filming in the first place, having clear contact details on the website. For location filming, and obviously this kind of thing as well, we produced a filming brochure, which is a PDF and a physical brochure, to kind of sell Castle Howard. Whilst this observational documentary obviously came to us as an opportunity, we're actively trying to sell ourselves as a filming location.I think reaching out to... If you've watched a program and you've really loved it, there's always credits at the end and you can kind of say, "Well, that's a really good example of something I'd love to replicate in my own workplace," and tracking down those people and setting up meetings and chats.Obviously we're part of the treasure houses group, there's 10 treasure houses that are privately owned stately homes in the country and we do a lot as a collective. We're attending a filming exhibition in London together called Focus in a couple of weeks time, and, as a group, making sure we're in those places, meeting the location managers, meeting the people in the industry, starting to form those relationships.The Christmas series this year that Channel 4 are doing, again, it features of the treasure houses and different ones to last year, so we're a repeat, I guess, in that it's winter for us, it's not necessarily just about Christmas. But then you'll see [inaudible 00:41:26] and Holkham as well. And Holkham were kind of going at it second time round, and Harewood for the first time.We've shared a lot of knowledge and talked a lot really about how we've approached it. And I've been a real advocate for it. I've encouraged those other houses, sorry, they might hate me for it now, to go for it, because we'd had such a positive experience last year with the team filming. I can vouch for the fact that they want to work with us and we're all pulling in the same direction.I think for us as well, my other bits of advice are, maximising the opportunity once it's happened. So making sure SEOs all working really hard for you. Making sure as soon as... We had to basically open all those doors to our website, because when a million people are watching you on Channel 4 on a Saturday night, we didn't want the website crashing. We wanted really clear calls to action about booking for Christmas and booking the cottages and campsite. Anything we can sell. When there's that opportunity of that many people Googling you, we wanted to make sure we were ready for it.We were also really aware that a lot of the people watching the TV show wouldn't necessarily be in the area or region and could just buy an admission ticket. We hope when the Christmas show goes out on the 3rd of December it will sell any final tickets remaining. It certainly did last year, but we've this year decided to do a virtual experience that people can buy, so we'll probably have that on sale to coordinate with the Christmas TV show going out. So for those people who are overseas or who can't get to Castle Howard this Christmas, there'll be a virtual tour, obviously inspired by places like London Transport Museum, who do their Hidden London tours, and plenty of theatre events do similar and do it really well.And then for us, maximising the press and PR opportunities that come out of the exposure. And then my other advice is the boring stuff, really. Making sure everything is covered from insurance and how we protect our assets. Having really clear guidelines for when the film crew's in the house, what they are and aren't permitted to do. Having all those access arrangements and risk assessments all agreed up front. So there's a leak on the roof, of course the film crew are going to want to be up on the roof at the moment when that happens, and you haven't got time to go through the whole process of doing a risk assessment and talking about insurance at that point. So it's kind of trying to think about all the scenarios up front and making sure all of that paperwork was done. So that's the boring stuff.And then communication, just communication, communication, you can't over communicate it. I found people get really grumpy if you turn up with a TV crew whilst they're busy in the middle of something highly important or some kind of high risk job, and I'm like, "Could we film you?" It generally doesn't go down brilliantly, so I've been an absolute stuck record in every meeting I've been in this year where I've been asking, "Can Channel 4 film it? Can Channel 4 film it?"And then making sure people are wearing something appropriate if I know people are going in to film them, like properly branded uniforms, and just giving people a heads up so they know that it's likely they're doing a thing as part of their day and I'm going to be along with a TV crew.But actually what's happened then is as the year has progressed, people have come forward more and more with opportunities. So people start letting me know, "We're doing a acorn picking," was one thing. I would never have known there was an acorn picking initiative going on in the forestry department. So people have been coming forward to me, and I've now got this brilliant content army of people letting me know what's going on in their week ahead, and they're actively thinking all the time, "This might make a great story for the TV." So I think you can't over communicate stuff.And then the final thing, which has been my mantra, it's absolutely obvious, but if you don't say it on camera, they can't put it on TV.Kelly Molson: Such simple advice.Abbigail Ollive: Simple advice.Kelly Molson: Abbi, this is going to be one of my favourite podcast episodes ever. You are always so generous with the advice that you give and the support that you give to the sector. So thank you for saying that you will help people and you're happy to talk to them. I think that's really amazing. We will put all of your details in the show notes so people can find out about you. But if you're not watching it already, how do we find out about the show? Where can we watch it?Abbigail Ollive: Yes, it's called Castle Howard: Through the Seasons. It's a Channel 4 production, so it's going out on Saturday nights, but more likely you'll be able to catch it with it on all four watch on demand. I'm sure it's something that will get repeated variously across the years, because that's great. They're busy repeating, I think, Chatsworth's documentary at the moment as well, and there's one happening at Highclere, and I think these things just kind of have quite a long shelf life actually, so hopefully you'll be able to watch it on demand way into the future, embarrassingly.Kelly Molson: For sure. Without a doubt. Abbi, we always ask our guests to share a book with us before they leave, something that they love or something that they've just enjoyed as part of their career or personal. What would you like to share with us?Abbigail Ollive: In my life outside of Castle Howard, I do a lot of baking and cooking. We have a little family business and cafe, so I'm a crazy baking lady some nights for that. But actually, it was difficult to choose, because I've got a whole amazing shelf of cookbooks that I use very regularly, but Sabrina Ghayour, who has recently released Persiana Everyday. I absolutely love Middle Eastern cooking, and I'm not really sure where this passion came from, but I think that particular book I've been using a lot recently, because it's good, quick recipes, they're really reliable, and they're brilliant midweek, not overly complex when you've got your store cupboard of ingredients sorted.But I actually chose this because it's something that... Our Channel 4 producer who's been with us for a year, Hannah, and I massively bonded over food, both being foodies, and I actually invited Sabrina to our press launch at Castle Howard because she's recently moved to the area, and funnily enough, I got a tweet, I got a DM tweet from Sabrina Ghayour saying, "You work at Castle Howard? I love Castle Howard." And I was like, "Oh my god, I mean, I love you. I've got your book and use it all the time. I can't believe you're trying to befriend me." So I invited her along to the press launch and she came, and Hannah, Channel 4 Hannah, and I had a proper fangirl moment of just basically going, "We really love your recipes." So it felt like a good, relevant, irrelevant one, although there were plenty I could have chosen.Kelly Molson: Oh my god, I am so with you on this. I have all of her bits except this one. Maybe I'll enter myself.Abbigail Ollive: Good Christmas present. Good Christmas-Kelly Molson: Yeah, there you go. They are the books I go to if we're having people over for dinner, or every New Year's Eve we cook a feast for the two of us, it would be three of us now, but we cook an absolute feast, and it's always lamb and it's always something incredibly delicious from one of her books. I think would've fangirled a little bit too.Abbigail Ollive: I know. And she uses our farm shop a lot, obviously, because we have estate tenant farmers, and I think it's really brilliant to champion that field to fork message. And if you're going to eat meat, it's brilliant that it's local. It's such a treat for me to be able to have a farm shop at work where I can and get that from. So yeah.Kelly Molson: Amazing. All right, well, look, listeners, as ever, if you want to be in with a chance of winning that book, if you go over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with, "I want Abbi's books, book even", you will be in with a chance of winning it.This is the second cookbook that we've had on the podcast recently as well. There's a little trend here. I'm getting a little message [inaudible 00:49:33].Abbigail Ollive: The other one that I was close, is when I was on holiday recently, I read, I'm sure somebody must have recommended it, the Bob Iger book, The Ride of a Lifetime, because he was the CEO of Disney for 15 years, and this week's just been announced that he's back at Disney after retirement. Not to go on as a prize, but for anybody working visitor attractions I found it a really inspiring read. The last paragraph of, well, sorry, the last chapter, really, is his bullet points of the kind of things he lived by whilst running Disney. I'm going to do the old school thing where I print it out and stick it on my wall. So that's just a top tip for the sector. I'm sure most people have read it and I'm, as usual, three years behind the trend.Kelly Molson: No, it not been recommended, though. It definitely has not come up on our... No, I will check our library list, but I am positive that that hasn't come up yet. But you can't win that one, it has to be Sabrina, because you will fully appreciate the cookbook. Trust me.Abbi, thanks so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.Abbigail Ollive: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight, as always, to talk to you, and I do feel so honoured to be second time round.Kelly Molson: My absolute pleasure. You're always such a treat when you come on, and I genuinely am so grateful for all the support and advice that you give to people. So thank you.Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned.Kelly Molson: Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast..

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The Opposition View - Bristol City not here yet again!!

Do Not Scratch Your Eyes

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 10, 2022 44:53

An opposition view without any opposition so we do the normal and talk about Paul Ince, Milk Shakes, Rivals merging or not, Robert Maxwell, Pornographic club owners, Bristol Rovers nicknames, old grounds, Only Fools and Horses, Roy Hodgson, Nigel Pearson, the difference between estuaries and channels, Pete's friend Tim, Predictions, Steve Bruce and a lack of enthusiasm for the World Cup and Pete has a rant about FIFA (instead of the FA this time), England and then London Transport Museum sock prices and Justin confesses to being a London Underground fan who's favourite line is the Circle line. It's all go! COYH!!!! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

#RailNatter Episode 133: Skills gap? What skills gap? 3

#RailNatter

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 28, 2022 55:45

This week's #RailNatter comes to you from the @London Transport Museum - and I'm very pleased to say I'm joined by not one, not two but THREE @Young Rail Professionals head honchos... Why? Well, it's #RailWeek once again, and this time we are getting in ahead of kick-off to talk all things railway industry employment. We'll remind ourselves what Rail Week is all about, we'll look at all of the events happening this year, we'll tackle the enormous "the industry is in turmoil" elephant in the room, and we'll even have a self-guided tour of the LTM at running speed! Head to the events section of the YRP website here: https://www.youngrailpro.com/page/events Enjoyed this? Please do consider supporting #RailNatter at https://patreon.com/garethdennis or throw loose change at me via https://paypal.me/garethdennis. Join in the discussion at https://garethdennis.co.uk/discord.

head skills gap ltm london transport museum yrp

Reverse Swept Radio 155: a batsman attacks a bowler with a stump, and interviews about the Windies Rebel Tours

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 2, 2022 33:20

THE TEN MINUTE FORTNIGHT: the joy of cricket writing (writing cricket writing, not reading cricket writing); watching Glamorgan's record-breaking innings "Most undeservedly, I ended up interviewing the curator of the London Transport Museum." FROM THE ARCHIVES (9'40): When a stump became a weapon: Rashid Patel loses it "The batsman has his bat horizontally across his chest in an unusual fencing move." THE REVIEW (20'10): The Unforgiven: Missionaries or Mercenaries by Ashley Gray (2020) "The pursuit of the players become interesting stories in themselves." Recorded on 24th June 2022

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Transport for London promotes public transit use with creative storytelling

Govlaunch Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later May 23, 2022 28:28

Siddy Holloway's work is centered around getting the public engaged in mobility through various forms of creative storytelling. With London being home to the world's oldest underground transit network there is a lot of history and knowledge to reveal. Learn more about how London is sharing its public transit stories and how you may be able to engage with your community on the topic of mobility. Featured government: Transport for London (Transport Authority for the city of London, UK)Episode guests: Siddy Holloway, Engagement Manager at the London Transport Museum and co-presenter of UKTV's 'Secrets of the London Underground'Visit govlaunch.com for more stories and examples of local government innovation.

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Top Gun Maverick, Joseph Wright of Derby Painting, Kingsway Tram Subway, Louise Erdrich

Front Row

Play Episode Listen Later May 16, 2022 42:21

36 years after playing pilot Pete Mitchell in the first Top Gun film, Tom Cruise returns to the role. Now Mitchell is one of the US Navy's top aviators, a courageous test pilot and instructor. He can dodge planes in the air but avoiding the advancement in rank that would ground him proves more difficult for him. Larushka Ivan Zadeh reviews the film. Joseph Wright of Derby was a fine portrait painter but is best known as the first artist to paint scenes of the Industrial Revolution and its scientific processes, such as in his most famous work, An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump. Today one of his paintings, in a private collection since 1772, became the centre piece of the Joseph Wright collection at Derby Museums and Art Gallery. On one side there is a self-portrait, on the other a study for An Experiment on a Bird in the Air Pump. Curator Lucy Bamford explains why this is such a significant acquisition. So that the exhibits are not confined to within the museum building, London Transport Museum is running guided tours of the Kingsway Tram Tunnel in Central London. Opened in 1906 the last tram ran through it in 1952. Since it was abandoned it has been a secret space in the heart of the city. Samira visits the tunnel with transport historian Tim Dunn and Siddy Holloway of the London Transport Museum and discovers part of the capital's hidden heritage. Louise Erdrich is a member of the Turtle Mountain Band and of Chippewa, and is the latest of our authors shortlisted for the Women's Prize for Fiction 2022 for The Sentence. The novel is about a bookshop, a haunting, and the events that unfurled in Minneapolis between All Souls' Day in 2019 and 2020, including of course the death of George Floyd. Presenter: Samira Ahmed Producer: Julian May

London Transport Museum's Lost Property Office

office lost property london transport museum

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 26, 2022 1:32

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode 046: Tim Moore, Travel Writer

The Cycling Europe Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 27, 2022 71:50

Tim Moore has been referred to as ‘Bill Bryson on two wheels'. Any reader of his adventures - both on and off a bike - will appreciate why the comparison is justified. In his first cycling travelogue, he set off on the route of that year's Tour de France just weeks before the professionals. He went on to recreate ‘the most appalling bike race of all time' - the 1914 Giro d'Italia - on a vintage bike. More recently he embarked upon a brutal cycle following the stages of the 1941 Vuelta a España. Ever the glutton for punishment, he's also ‘The Cyclist Who Went Out In The Cold' who set off on an East German shopping bike along the route of EuroVelo 13, the Iron Curtain Trail… The Cycling Europe Podcast chatted to him in a Tube carriage at the London Transport Museum.

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Chris Nix: London Transplant and Hidden London Hangouts Host

City Dweller

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 10, 2021 25:48

In this episode, I speak to Chris Nix, Assistant Director at the London Transport Museum and one of the hosts of the Hidden London Hangouts, a weekly YouTube series that explores the secret and mysterious spaces of London's transport system. In addition to discussing the inspiration behind the hangouts, we discuss Chris' experience of growing up near Manchester, England and now living in London.

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Siddy Holloway: Bringing London Underground secrets to life

We Are Railfans Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 25, 2021 46:36

Sam talks about London's hidden transport gems with Siddy Holloway, Engagement Manager at the London Transport Museum and co-presenter of UKTV's 'Secrets of the London Underground'. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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How to drive visitor numbers by focusing on the local community, with Liz Power

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Play Episode Listen Later Nov 24, 2021 48:36

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends April 29th 2022. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://waterandsteam.org.uk/https://twitter.com/epuddickhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/liz-power-a79717198/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5nggnfC6B8https://www.bdadyslexia.org.uk/ Liz Power has been the Director of the London Museum of Water & Steam since 2018, which follows 20 years working in Museum learning at the Science Museum, Imperial War Museum and London Transport Museum. When not at a Museum Liz can be found running around after her three children, volunteering as a trustee for her local grassroots youth work charity, or playing the Baritone horn badly in her local brass band. Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Liz Power, Director of the London Museum of Water and Steam. We discuss their excellent reopening video, and how they drove their summer visitor numbers sky-high by focusing on their local community. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: All right, Liz, welcome to Skip the Queue.Liz Power: Thank you so much for having me.Kelly Molson: Well, it's my pleasure and I'll tell you why it's my pleasure in a little while. But first, ice breaker questions. So, if there was a zombie apocalypse, which three people would you want on your team? And they can be friends or celebs.Liz Power: Wow.Kelly Molson: Or famous, not celebs.Liz Power: We'll see, for years and years me and my husband had a zombie apocalypse plan when we lived over in Wimbledon. We'd meet at the windmill on the common, and so we would... This is before we had children, we had this actual zombie apocalypse plan, so I think I'm going to take him, because he's in on the plan already and I think it's completely rational to have a zombie apocalypse plan, completely. So, I'll have him because he's good. And then who else would I have? I mean, I basically want somebody who knows a lot about zombies. There's not many of those around. Maybe I'll just take any mortician.Kelly Molson: Yeah, yeah. Okay.Liz Power: Because they're used to handling the dead, and it's not the zombie's fault that they're trying to eat our brains, so maybe they would handle the zombie relationships while I do fighting.Kelly Molson: I love that. I like that you've thought so in-depth about this. Now I feel like I need to put my own zombie apocalypse plans together.Liz Power: Everyone needs one.Kelly Molson: Okay. All right, if you could eliminate one food so that no one ever had to eat it ever again, what would you destroy?Liz Power: Without a doubt it is celery. I mean, it is obnoxious, horrible, does nothing for you. Just the presence of it in a space stinks it out. I can spot it in a mixed up food a hundred miles. It is the filthy devil's food, and eating it would kill you if you ate nothing else. So, the world could do without it. It's very much the mosquito of the food world, celery. Yeah, everyone would be delighted. Nobody would believe me for that.Kelly Molson: Great. Okay, good. Exactly how I feel about peas, so... It's similar.Liz Power: Similar. Similar. Maybe we could do both, sort of a two-for-one offer.Kelly Molson: I'm all down for that. Celery has no part in my life.Liz Power: No, nor mine. Nor anybody's I'm sure, but anyway. Still should be banned.Kelly Molson: All right. Final one, what is the best advice you've ever been given?Liz Power: So, I have three children, and my daughter turned two the day after my twins were born. It was unbelievable chaos for the last... Well, for the last eight years to be honest, but particularly the first kind of six months. At one point, I cried on a health visitor and said... Because they would just scream and hit and it was oh, they were such messy little creatures. I said to her was it ever going to be like this forever? Had I ruined everyone's lives? Had I ruined my daughter's life by bringing these two horrible screaming babies into her world, and she said to me, "They are learning about relationships in the safety of your love."Kelly Molson: Aw, that's lovely.Liz Power: And it was the best bit of advice, and I probably reference it about three times a week, because even though they're now 10 and eight, my boys are eight, it's still chaotic and it's still argumentative. The small one had an argument over jumpers. I mean, it is that... They are going to just be the best humans, they're going to make the best friends, they're going to have the best relationships because they're learning about that in complete safety. So, that's what reassures me when it all goes horrifically wrong.Kelly Molson: Oh my God, that is so special. What a... That's a really lovely gift that she gave you with that saying, isn't it?Liz Power: Yeah, and I was at a very, very low point, and it just gave me enough to keep going, that I hadn't ruined everything. Not that you can choose to have twins, but it just felt like I'd blown everything apart. She was like, "No, this is for their good." And it is for their good.Kelly Molson: Hats off to you, because I'm juggling a four-month-old right now, and that's tough enough. So, well done you. All right, what is your unpopular opinion?Liz Power: I've been thinking about this, because I have so many opinions, but I tend to have a tendency to think I'm right, so I think they're more popular, but I thought of one particularly for museums. We have so many museums in this country. That worries me. We just have so many, and I'm not sure that every single museum in the country is viable, so I think my unpopular opinion should be that if we're going to have to make choices about which museums we can sustain as a country, then we should make it purely based on which ones have mannequins or not, and get rid of every single mannequin museum. If you have a mannequin, I don't care how pretty it is, it must go. The things are terrifying, horrific. Maybe we'd have an amnesty and give everyone 12 months to get rid if they wanted. And then anybody who was like, "No, my mannequin must stay." I'm like... I don't mind a headless one to display clothing, but the ones that are just kind of an actual person. Horrific.Liz Power: When I worked at the Transport Museum, there was one... Well, Transport Museum, I love it dearly but they'll definitely have to close or get rid of the mannequins. There's one there that is actually modelled on Sam Mullins, the director. And so, it's even more horrific, and then in their store in Acton, there's just trains full of random mannequins. I mean, it's horrible.Kelly Molson: Kind of spooky having a mannequin of yourself, isn't it? That's a bit creepy. But where would all the mannequins go, though? There would just be a landfill of weird, creepy mannequins.Liz Power: No, we'd burn them.Kelly Molson: Okay.Liz Power: Yeah, we'd burn them. We're very industrious in museums. We'd probably sell tickets to the bonfire. We'd burn all the mannequins that were given over in the amnesty, and the museums that don't comply, that is it. No more of your museum. You just have to be... Though, I think that's probably going to turn out to be an incredibly popular opinion.Kelly Molson: I think it might as well. Let's find out. Listeners, can you let us know how you feel about the burning of the mannequins?Liz Power: I think it just feels right. I don't know how you'd object to it. It's so good.Kelly Molson: Also, let me know if you buy a ticket for that as well. I'm intrigued.Liz Power: I'll get that Arts Council application on the go right now.Kelly Molson: Liz, thank you for that. Okay, I've had so many wonderful unpopular opinions this season already, I just... Yeah, where you pull them from, I do not know. Right, tell us a little bit about the London Museum of Water and Steam.Liz Power: Well, of course, everyone has visited, but just for a couple of people that have never been, we are a very small micro-museum over in West London, and we're based at Q Bridge train station, but actually in Brentford and Hounslow. We are a historic site, and we have 200 years of water pumping history and the impact it has on London. So, we have a collection of static steam engines, we have a small, really small [inaudible 00:08:22] gauge loco that runs around our site, and we are a community museum, so we're really focused on what we can do for our local community. That's a massive part of what we do, and then the other part of what we do is our visitor profile is the classic split of the under-fives and the enthusiasts.Liz Power: So, it's a really unusual place and massive plug for everyone to come and visit and come and see me because everyone at all. Yes, I know this standpipe tower, so if you've ever sat on the traffic queuing to the A40 with that big tower that you're like, "Oh, I don't know what that is." Yeah, that's us, and it's a standpipe tower, not a chimney. So, come educate yourself, because everyone's like, "Oh, I've queued past so many times." Yeah, that's us, that's the Water and Steam.Kelly Molson: Oh, I love it. That was a very good synopsis, and you mentioned community. We're going to come back to that because that's what we want to talk about on today's podcast. But listeners, as you know I basically stalk people on Twitter and LinkedIn and various social media platforms and ask them to come on the podcast. I'm always looking out for interesting guests, interesting stories, and I have been stalking Liz for a little while, actually, after I saw their rather brilliant reopening video that the museum produced. Kelly Molson: Now, this was when the museums were allowed to reopen after the first wave of pandemic. I know we are still in it, but I thought it was such a great example of one, a video that was on brand. It was really fun, really authentic, and I'm going to say really inexpensively-made, and I just thought, I just thought it was perfect. It was such a lovely way of kind of showcasing to your potential visitors that it was a safe place to come.Kelly Molson: It was really fun. You really explained visually really well what they could and couldn't do, and I just think it's excellent. I've referenced it in many... Well, I've referenced it on the podcast, I've referenced it in a few webinars that we've done for ASVA, and I just think it's banging. Can you just talk us through the process of how you... I will put the link to the video in the show notes, so if you haven't seen it you can have a watch.Liz Power: Cool, thanks. We were fully furloughed as staff from April the first, including myself. So, we were out of work, but that didn't stop you from attending webinars, and so myself and the team were attending anything we could do to just feel like we still had a job. One of the webinars, we heard Bernard Donoghue who I know you've had on before talk about a reopening video that would be an important part of reopening. We didn't have any money or any budget or anything, but we had enthusiasm and an incredible ability to chuck ourselves into having a go at anything. And I just thought we could do it. I looked at some of the ones that other people were making, and I was like, "You know what, it doesn't look that hard."Liz Power: So, we filmed it on my iPhone, because I had the newest phone of the team, so that's how that choice was made. Myself and Gemma, who... We only have three staff majoritively, so the two of us filmed it together and we wrote a little skit. We filmed it in order, so we'd find it easier to edit, and we filmed it without a microphone or anything, and then we took a few takes of a few things, but pretty much did it short and sharp, under a minute long. We knew the messages we wanted to get across about space and fun...Kelly Molson: That's my favourite bit. The space bit is my favourite bit.Liz Power: There's so much space.Kelly Molson: There's so much space. But it's filmed from really far away, so it sounds like you've got loads of space as well, and I was like it's really brilliant.Liz Power: In our garden, yeah. And then we used free editing software to bring it together, and then my friend Vicki Pipe, who is the manager of the amazing Bow Street Police Museum, check that out, who's a brilliant editor. She's @vickiexplores on Twitter. She did a time to edit for me and put some music over the top, and that was it. And then we did a really important thing, and I know this sounds silly, but I lost all sense of shame and I set up a WhatsApp group which was absolutely everybody I knew who I thought would retweet it for me. I sent out a WhatsApp group to them and sent a message to them all saying, "I really need your help. Good news, I'm not asking for money. All I'm asking for is a retweet. Can you retweet my video when I bring it out next week?" And sent them a little preview.Liz Power: And then everyone did, including the amazing Scummy Mummies, who retweeted it for me, and they've got a massive following. So, it really got out into the world. It was fantastic. Anyway, so we loved it so much that we made another one for October when we reopened, so that was our outdoor spaces. When we reopened our indoor spaces, and this time I roped in my kids to star in it, and we did exactly the same process. For us, it worked really well. When we'd had to close, all of our engagement with our audience had gone on to social media, and there was nothing else we could do. We were furloughed, we were really tight but we have always been really open with our visitors and our community about who we are as an organisation but also as individuals.Liz Power: So, it's really not unusual for our social media to feature us messing around, or us just talking about our lives or... It's not my kids' first appearance. It is very much community work. You have to give so you can receive, and it fitted our brand because if we'd suddenly had come out with something that was so slick, they'd all gone, "Well, they said they have no money." We haven't gotten any money, so we have to film it like this. It fits. This is us, this is me and Gemma. We're the people you will meet, and so in every way, it fitted what we did. It was so well-received, and it really held its own against people who spent a lot of money on theirs, and we spent, for the record, nothing.Kelly Molson: Amazing. Yeah, I love that, and I think that's part of seeing... The pandemic has forced people to be more innovative and be more creative with the budget that they've got, which was zero, and to do things like this. I think one of the nice things that you mentioned is about, you were in it and your children were in it, and it was... If people are going to visit, they're going to meet those people, and that brings me back to that community aspect that I want to talk about. Because you've had a really, really successful summer, and this was something that I saw on Twitter a little while ago.Kelly Molson: You posted, and again, I'll reference this in the show notes, but you posted up a graph. Your tweet said, "The grey are the numbers we expected. Yellow is what we had before, and blue is what we got." And basically the numbers were phenomenal. They were far over what you were predicting, like far over.Liz Power: Yeah.Kelly Molson: You said this had all come about because you'd focused on your local community. I want to know what you did.Liz Power: Yeah.Kelly Molson: So, you've got your summer 2021 results are pretty phenomenal. Talk us through how you got them, because they were so much better than what you expected.Liz Power: So much better, and I just want to say that halfway through the summer, I had failed the basic mantra of "know your numbers" and was in the pit of despair unknowing if we were doing well or not. And then I was like, "Actually, Power, sort yourself out. Just count the numbers up and have a look," and we were doing so well. We had forecast that we would get 25% of our normal visitor numbers. Now, for a sense of scale, we are tiny, so if we get over 200 visitors, we're emergency going to say we need to get more loo roll, just to give you a sense of scale. But we had forecast 25%, and we were smashing it. Absolutely smashing it.Liz Power: We are very lucky in Brentford where we sit. We're surrounded by people, so we're overlooked by the Brentford Towers Housing Estate, which is a high-rise accommodation, high-density, and then we have new-build flats all the way around us, and that's why in the summer of '21... In the summer of '20, we had decided to open this outdoor space, because to be brutally honest, nobody needed a static steam engine at that point in their life. Did they need a place to play with their kids? Absolutely. So, we did that instead. When it came to this summer, what we really wanted to do was kind of take that same approach and feel, and bring it into the museum. Despite all the new people we met last summer... All the new people we've met since we reopened in May, come to the museum and just, we want it treated like a park.Liz Power: We want people to feel like they can come time and time again, have a play. That kind of feel, so when we had opened... I don't know what you call the October opening. Almost open. When we'd almost opened in October and done the half term, and then again when we reopened in May, the first thing we did before we let the public in is have a week of community opening, where we invited all of our local community groups in to have the space for themselves, get them back through the door, just kind of build up those relationships. We'd had some funding from the Council over the autumn of '21 for a project we called Sharing Spaces. Sounds really posh, but what they actually did was pay for a duty manager and a cleaner so that we could open the museum not for the public but for community work, because we were a large space.Liz Power: So, we were ventilated and groups could meet inside, and particularly for the local communities work we do with people with autism. Having a regular meeting place had been really important. So, it started to kind of snowball all of this work we were doing in the local community, being helpful. Helpful is one of our museum values, and so we're like, "What would be helpful to do now?" Again, still nobody needs a static pumping engine, but they do need a place to come and do a regular craft group or whatever it is. We had carried on this mantra, and then we'd closed again and gone into that really long lockdown. Then, with the help from the Culture Recovery Fund, we'd been able to open up in May, and again, focus on the community groups. What can we do that is helpful?Liz Power: We've got a brilliant new community partner in the Au Bon community, who are a charity who work with young people with learning disabilities. They're our new café, and that's really exciting and we've got all these new community groups coming in and out. And then we've just got local people, and we swapped our annual tickets, so we are unashamedly a Robin Hood organisation. If you travel from Brighton to buy a ticket for the day, we're an expensive day out for you at 17 pounds. If you live next door, we are an absolute bargain. 17 quid for the year, come in every week. Brilliant.Liz Power: So, we have this. We knew we'd have people coming time and time again, and annual ticket members bring other annual ticket members. And then we knew we couldn't do seven days a week. We didn't have the staff, so we consolidated down to five days a week. Still, at five days a week, we beat what we had done in 2019.Kelly Molson: Wow.Liz Power: It was just local people because we know them, and we see them, and we chat with them. They help us find the leak buckets when the roof rains, and they say things like, "Are you doing that story again, Liz?" And you're like, "Yes, I'm doing that story again." And we put together a simple program that we felt was manageable and deliverable, we had a good summer. But local people had built this relationship with us, which meant that they knew what they were getting, they know the approach they're getting. We're a friendly place. You really can't go far wrong. Of course you can touch something. You're going to get covered in oil, but help yourself. Come in the water play, just come and sit and chill. You walk a coffee through our museum, it's absolutely fine. We want to be that kind of relaxed environment, and that's just what people needed this summer. We just got it just right for our local people, and I think we've done a lot of listening and a lot of thinking about them.Liz Power: And also a lot of reflecting on our own lives. What do we want this summer? I certainly don't' want anything too intense. I wanted a chill place that made me feel safe and relaxed and happy, and that didn't have to go too far. So, that's what we provided for a lot of people in Brentford.Kelly Molson: How did you get the word out? Did you use... You've obviously got quite a tight-knit community around you anyway, so you've got people that would come back and visit regularly, and they're going to spread the word organically for you. Is that what happened, or did you go to any other lengths to...? So, did you invest in digital, for example? Did you do any online campaigns? Or did you do any flyer dropping, or...?Liz Power: No. The Cultural Recovery Fund's money, obviously, was only for the three months and it ran out before the summer holiday, so we had pre-invested in that well-known marketing tool, the banner. We have two banners out saying what we were doing for the summer, and we use our social media a lot, so we chat to people and we often say to people, "Oh, if you want to know what's going on, just follow us Facebook." We've got a big Facebook following, big for us. Lots of people do follow us on that, but then also, we're really unashamed about it. This half term, we've been doing science shows and at the end of every science show, we end with an appeal, thanking everyone for coming, saying that museums will only keep going if we have visitors. It's their homework to go away and tell five people, "Help keep us going."Liz Power: I think a lot of it is word of mouth, and just kind of the good feeling we can create from being helpful, from being positive, so you get people whose child maybe attends a club that meets in the museum, or maybe they're a carer to one of the young people who does their bunchy work in café... That kind of good atmosphere, and then that's it. We don't have any money for any new marketing or leaflets or anything like that, so it's simple at the moment until we build our income back up...Kelly Molson: Yeah.Liz Power: ... and are able to put a bit more money behind it.Kelly Molson: That's phenomenal. To have achieved those kinds of visitor numbers without actually any additional spend is pretty impressive.Liz Power: Yeah, I forgot one thing, as well, which was before the summer, I did a request out to Thames Water. Thames Water doesn't fund us or anything, but I kind of think they should. So, I'd phoned them up and asked them if there was anything they could do for the summer to help us, and their engagement team came down every Wednesday with a bunch of activities, and so we were able to have additional programming for no additional cost. If in doubt, ask.Kelly Molson: That's excellent.Liz Power: Yeah, and that came out of... I was at training or networking, and somebody said, "If you need help, ask for help." And I was like, "We need help. We need help to put on programming for this summer. Let me ask." And they said yes.Kelly Molson: That's phenomenal. So actually, a big part of it is finding new partners to support you. It's not just about relying on the general public to spread the word. That's one part of it, but the other channel is actually, if we look at the community and we look at partners that can come and support us, that's another way of developing... Because, are you getting new people coming through the doors as well? You talked a lot about your annual visitors, but are you getting new visitors? You can see that split?Liz Power: Yeah, we can see the split. I'm not very good on stats, so I haven't got the stats for you, but yeah. We can see the new people coming in, so when I was changing the ticket prices... In 2019, we had 13 different ticket prices, and to volunteer on our front desk, you basically needed a degree in mathematics. We simplified it and we now have the classic two ticket prices, adults and concessions, and we made all kids go free because it's such a good line. I worked out when I was doing the calculations for that ticket change, the percentage of new tickets that we would have coming through the door, and I was heavily indebted to the AIM guides, an Association of Independent Museums who are brilliant. I mean, they've got a guide for everything you need... If you want to run a museum, just use that website. Their ticket guide basically said, "If you change to an annual ticket, annual tickets bring other people." As soon as you read it you think, "Do you know what? I've done that."Liz Power: So, you get an annual ticket to somewhere and then you say to your friend, "I'll tell you what, I've got a ticket to Kew Gardens, do you want to meet me there? That would be great, and then you could get a ticket, and then the two of us can meet in Kew Gardens." And then they say to their friend, "Do you know what? I've got a ticket to Kew Gardens..." That's the word of mouth that comes with that investment in that annual ticket for those families, and we'd had people who'd bought annual tickets at October half term, we're very liberal at just extending those, thanking them for support. Lots of families said, "Don't be ridiculous, we'll buy a new one," which is lovely. But the annual ticket is something that... Now, you can come every weekend like everyone else.Liz Power: You can just have a play, or did you know the trains are coming back? Or did you know that we've got the model railway, or whatever is coming in, they feel we are a hop in-able venue, and then that's how they kind of spread the word to their friends, really, and start the snowball off.Kelly Molson: And is this kind of constantly evolving? Because I guess just going back to what you mentioned right at the start, is that you said, "What is it that people need right now? They need outdoor space, they need somewhere to come with their kids where they can burn off steam, and they need it to be a calm space where they don't have to worry about anything." How does that translate now that the winter's coming? Are you speaking to the community to find out what it is that they need?Liz Power: Yeah, so on our community work site, at the moment we're only open to the public at weekends, during term time. But we're open for the community Thursdays and Fridays, and that's when we're also starting to welcome schools back in. Watch this space, and also when we have our volunteers come in on Thursdays and Fridays. The big request from the community is to open more. I mean, we could fill the building four days a week, easily, with community work. So, that's a real challenge for us, to look for sources of income to make that happen, so I have a couple of proposals out with corporate donors who, I think it should help the community by opening our museum for a couple extra days a week. For them it would be, in case they're listening, a very low-cost investment, so we need a duty manager and we need a cleaner, and that's pretty much it. And some overheads to keep the lights on, so we know that's what the community really need.Liz Power: They need a dry space, they need a ventilated space, they need toilets. So, that's really, really important, and then for our kind of family visitors, it's really interesting. So, half term just gone, we had good numbers. I was really pleased. We beat our 25% target, we didn't have those numbers like the summer. What is really interesting, families were saying to me, "I'm so glad you're not busy. I thought you were going to be busy."Kelly Molson: Oh.Liz Power: Which I think is fascinating. I mean, it's an independent museum's worst nightmare, that people want to avoid busy places because busy is what we love, but I thought that was really interesting and made me think about kind of the messaging we're going to do this winter. We are big, we do have plenty of space. You can safely navigate our museum without hitting a queue or feeling hemmed in. So, I think that we're going to have to think about how we communicate that, and how we make sure that we... Instead of going what is more traditional for us pre-pandemic years, October half terms is manic, and then winter toddles along. How can we spread that out? How can we say to our families, "You know the offer that you love at half term? Well actually, this weekend in November, we're also doing some of that."Liz Power: So, we can spread all visitors out and make them feel safe and secure this winter, and safe and secure I think is just about not being busy for them. Actually, it's going to be a really fine balance.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it? It's a conundrum of... And I guess this comes back to a pricing strategy as well, is do you have less visitor numbers, higher entry price? But then that's a challenge in terms of the local kind of community you've built up. You don't want to whack the price up for them, but will people travel and pay more to come?Liz Power: Brentford's a very deprived area, and Hounslow is a little rich borough, and I'm very aware of not wanting to kind of price our local community out of the museum. For me, working in independent museums as I have for the last 13 years, for me it's all about demonstrating worth, so £17 is a lot of money. Some families, for an adult, I can't do the maths quick enough to tell you what it'd be for two, but for some families that is beyond their reach, right? They're never going to be able to afford that. Those families, we will give tickets to for free. That is not a lost income for me, they are never coming. So, I will give them a ticket because that is gained love, gained support, gained word of mouth. That's all pluses for me, there's no loss at all.Liz Power: In the past, we've given away tickets with a food bank, which has been really good, and we're delighted to see some of those families in. We work very closely with the Children's Centre, who hold a stay and play on a Thursday in term time in our museum, and we give tickets away to those families, and all of my duty managers are on strict instructions that if somebody arrives with a family and when they're told the price, they say, "This is not for us, then," and you can tell, you know those families aren't faking it. They absolutely can let those families in.Kelly Molson: That's wonderful.Liz Power: That's not lost money. That's just a total bonus, but it's about demonstrating 17 quid, for a lot of people, is a big spend. So, what are you getting? What's your value for money there? I always think about the cinema, the thing about paying for the cinema is you know how long you're going to be in it, you know what it's going to be like, and you know what it's going to be like when you finish. So, that's a safe bet for a family, they understand that transaction, and I think the thing with museums is people who aren't museum-goers don't understand that transaction. They don't see what they're getting, and this kind of loops back around to the film and the social media and the being very open, and welcoming community groups in.Liz Power: All we're trying to do is show you what you're going to get, that it's not scary. You're going to meet me and Gemma. It's really fun, your kid doesn't have to behave, tantrums are incredibly welcome and totally normal, as is shoplifting from our shop. Toddlers running across the carpark with a bouncy ball, you don't have to put on your best. I don't want it to be a place where you feel you can only go if your children are on their best behaviour. You need us most when your children are at their absolute worst. That's when you should feel safe to come to us and go, "God, they're having a hideous day. Water and steam, that's what we need. Let's go get wet in the splash zone." Doesn't matter if they've got soaked. They keep their clothes. Doesn't matter if they're having a screaming tantrum on the floor, Liz has got that secret packet of stickers that she gives to screaming kids.Liz Power: That's the kind of safety we want to create, and then that means for them that they know that value of that 18, 17 quid. They really understand what they're getting in return, and it's a good investment for them. And we've done this... Hounslow Council have given every household a 20 quid voucher, like an e-voucher thing, and we've signed up and some families have been swapping that for their adult ticket.Kelly Molson: Ah, that's great.Liz Power: Yeah, it's absolutely brilliant, because 17 quid, you could spend it in lots of different shops in Hounslow and restaurants and things, but if they spent it with us, they get something that lasts all year. That's been wonderful to see that coming through.Kelly Molson: That's really smart. Liz, I don't think that you could have sold a trip to this museum any better than you just did. It's just perfect. It's perfect. I'm bringing Edie, I'm bringing Edie.Liz Power: Yeah, do it. Bring her when you're having a rubbish day. I will happily cuddle a baby for you.Kelly Molson: Excellent, I'll take that. I'll definitely take you up on that. Liz, what is next for the museum? We talked a little bit about how your offering is going to change slightly, and obviously, there is still a nervousness from people, and they want to know that they're going to have enough space and be safe over the summer months. What comes next?Liz Power: We've got to work out how to grow. Okay, so we've luckily not had to make anyone redundant, but we haven't replaced anyone who's left, and so I think we've kind of been in survival mode quite a long way. But I wrote a business plan in 2019, and I've got to trash it because we've leapt so far forward in everything we wanted to do, so that's fantastic news. There's a bit of kind of structural replanning that needs to happen, thinking about our business plan going forward, and then how do we grow back to where we were? How do we get back to the starting levels? Then, how can we do more for our community?Liz Power: We're just about to advertise for a volunteer coordinator part-time if you'd like to come work with me. That is going to be a really big thing for us, and we need to build our volunteer team back. That's incredibly important, we have started a years' worth of work, working on young volunteering. A lot of young people who are long-term mates, volunteering in the museum, so I'm just trying to explore every version of volunteering possible because I think we're a fantastic resource for skills and all the rest of it. I'm having conversations with all sorts of people that might be able to make volunteering doable for us. That's really exciting, and then we're again thinking about what our community needs.Liz Power: I want to do some work on our outdoor spaces, which are before the pay line. We're very lucky, we've got a beautiful garden with frogs and a playhouse and more children's watering cans than you've ever seen, but there's space at the back that I'm hoping that I am going to be able to redevelop into a wild play space that could be used by the local community for playing for a school. Something that's kind of lacking in Brentford. I'd like to get open more, because I think we need to be doing more community work. So again, as you can see these things are about kind of what can we look for funding to take our work forward, while maintaining our core work of the work that we do with the communities and the work we do with our visitors who come in all the time?Liz Power: So, slowly, slowly nudging forward and always just being really honest with people about where we are, and just explaining we can't do everything, and the things we can't do, explain why we can't do them. Just the things we can do, being enthusiastic and going for it. We try to have an attitude of promising to everyone that we'll say no if we can't do something, because in some cultures, saying "no" is perceived as incredibly rude. So, people don't ask, because they're worried they're going to put a burden on you. We want to have the opposite, so we operate on a promise to say no, so you may as well ask because I'm going to feel I have to do something.Liz Power: Kind of continuing to listen and respond to the community, and just trying to be the most helpful, responsive, reactive museum we can, and get our reaccreditation. So, just a couple of things.Kelly Molson: I mean, that's not a shortlist by any means, is it? What we really need are those corporate sponsors to get their wallets out, get their purses out, and spend some money.Liz Power: Absolutely. To spend some money, and to think about how they can support the museum because the visitor numbers will return and that income will return, but it's going to be a slow-moving thing. There's no rushing that, and I don't know if we'll ever see numbers like we did before the world changed. So, this is time to think differently, and think a bit laterally about how can we still achieve what we want to achieve? And it might work, might not work, but at least they're going to try, and try everything.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Liz, I've really loved speaking to you about this, because you can see when you talk, you can see the enthusiasm that comes through you, so I just think it would be... Definitely, I'm going to come and visit, because it would be so lovely to meet you in person because you kind of... The museum just is you, you just glow when you talk about it. It's really lovely.Liz Power: I was very lucky. So, I've only ever worked in museums. I've never worked anywhere else, and then slowly over the 20 years of careers, I've made a list of all the places I would never work, which I might tell you if you come in and have a coffee. I was really, really lucky I was working so much on community engagement in museums and younger people in museums. That's really where I felt my focus should be, is on the social purpose of museums. I'm just really lucky that when I went to the interview at Water and Steam, I pitched them this left-wing community utopia they went for it. They trusted in me and backed me, and I think it's starting to come good.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it is. Absolutely. All right, so something else that I want to discuss with you. Now, this is the time in the podcast where I normally ask our guest to give a book recommendation. So, something that they love, something that maybe has shaped their career, and when I asked you this, you very... No, it was really such a valid point, and I thought, "No one's ever said that to me before, and nobody's ever raised this as a topic," but you basically said that books, they're not at the top of your list of things to do, because you have Dyslexia.Liz Power: Yes.Kelly Molson: Let's talk about the... museum and cultural world is extremely academic. How do you deal with this? What's your strategies?Liz Power: Well, it's super academic, isn't it? And I've got a terrible degree in drama. I could be a tree, but that's kind of where my academia ends. And as I made my way through my career, I was very aware that you just... Goodness, people are clever, aren't they? And they've done all sorts of qualifications and all the rest of it, and my idea of hell is doing an MA. Sounds horrific.Kelly Molson: Same.Liz Power: Degree in drama was bad enough. I'm not a studier, I hate it. The day I worked my first job, which was at Buckingham Palace, I worked in the security team. Literally, I was like, "Oh, I'm a worker bee. I'm happy. I don't want to study, I just want to work," and it's not been easy, because there is this presumption that you come from this academic background, and that you will gain your knowledge about the sector through reading and absorbing this. I could read a textbook on museum practice. I am not going to remember it, I'm not going to be able to take it in, and I won't understand the majority of the words, so my reading and writing age is about that of a 12-year-old, and that is not what museum books are written for. Though I am excellent at editing texts for exhibitions because 12 is what we should all aim for.Liz Power: So, I'm not a natural museum person like that. I also don't particularly like exhibitions, because I find reading hard, and so why would I choose to do that, stood up? If I'm going to read, and I do read for pleasure, I will be sat somewhere snugly, and so I can give my full concentration to it. Certainly not in a room with other people stood looking at a wall. So, accessing information throughout my career has kind of come from two places. First of all, from being brutally honest about my abilities and my limitations. My dyslexia affects my short-term memory, it affects my processing skills, it obviously affects my reading and writing skills. If I had to read something, then I need to kind of set aside time to actually do that, and be in the right environment to make myself read it.Liz Power: My own learning has mainly come from people. I mean, the best source of learning, they are. They are the people that write the books, after all, so you just go talk to the person. Skip out the middle page. I've done a lot of kind of following and networking and chatting to people. I've worked with some extraordinary people, and being so lucky to manage some brilliant people who have really challenged me in what I think and do, and if I'm able to kind of share how I need to work... If you're going to be managed by me, this is what you need to know. If I'm going to report to you, I mean, my poor trustees, what a learning curve.Liz Power: This is how this information will be coming to you, and best of luck deciphering this. So, I do do written reports, but they will quite often say, "Well, we'll have a verbal report on that one. Have a verbal report on that." And we only do one basic written report, so like our board meetings, that's majoritively kind of bullet points and things like... They kind of adapted to my issues, but the massive, massive plus side, and the reason I wouldn't turn off my dyslexia even if I could, is you choose me to be part of the team. You get all that hard work, but you also get an incredible dyslexic superpower, which I that I can see something complete. I can see what Water and Steam will be. Not might be, not could be, but will absolutely be. I can see the people walking through the door, I can see the interactions, and then what I can do once I can see something, I can take it apart and work out how to get there.Liz Power: I didn't realise this was a superpower until a former line manager said to me once, "You have three good ideas a year, Liz, and that's what we keep you around for." I said, "I do actually." But my ideas come fully formed, and that's really unusual to go, "I have a fully-formed vision of this." I woke up the other day and I had a fully-formed vision of how I would revolutionise sports engagement for the under-16s. I mean, for God's sake...Kelly Molson: Is there nothing that you can't do, Liz?Liz Power: No. Well, I'm not going to do it. But it's like, seriously brain, could you just switch off? That's the plus side of my dyslexia, is that I see things in a very different way to a lot of people, and then I have the ability to kind of undo it all. Yeah, so super dyslexic, now parent to two, potentially three super dyslexic children. I was lucky to be brought up in an incredibly dyslexic-positive household. My dad's dyslexic, my brother's dyslexic, my poor mother dealing with us all. It's got lots of downsides, but the upsides are so totally worth it. But it does mean I can't recommend a book.Kelly Molson: Oh, that's fine. Liz, this has been better than a book recommendation, because the fact that you've been able to kind of speak so openly and humorously about the subject, that's going to help more people than reading a book.Liz Power: Yeah, absolutely. If you have somebody who's dyslexic who's joining your team, or you're going to be working with them, there's a lot of resources from the Dyslexia Association that can talk to you about managing somebody with dyslexia or working with somebody with dyslexia. That really helps. It's a neuro-difference the same as any other, so get yourself clued up, work out what the plus sides are, and adapt as best as possible. I wouldn't change it, it doesn't make life easy, but it certainly makes it more interesting. I definitely couldn't do my job if I wasn't dyslexic. No chance.Kelly Molson: Amazing. Thank you for sharing that, Liz. Again, we will pop all of the links to the Dyslexia Association in the show notes as well, so if you haven't ever gone and looked at their website, go and browse it. I'm sure there's a lot of things on there that would be able to support your teams. Liz, it's been brilliant to talk to you. Thank you. Wishing you all the best of luck as you head into the winter months, and I'll check back in on you in a few months, and see how it's all going if that's okay.Liz Power: I would love that, and you must come in and have a coffee. And anybody else who wants to come in and abuse my brilliant coffee shop, then just send me a message on Twitter, and yeah, everyone's welcome. The more people I can show my museum to, the happier I am.Kelly Molson: Well, you heard it there, folks. Everyone needs to head over. Please, I know we did mention it earlier, but don't steal anything from the gift shop.Liz Power: I will catch you.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions for this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

Une station de tram cachée a rouvert à Londres

Incroyable !

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 6, 2021 1:44

Scoop : les Anglais viennent d'inventer la machine à remonter le temps... ou presque !Plus précisément : durant l'été 2021, le London Transport Museum a commencé à organiser des visites guidées de la station de tramway Kingsway.Un lieu fermé au public depuis 1952.Retour vers le passéC'est au terme de (presque) soixante-dix ans d'abandon que cette station de tramway londonienne a rouvert ses portes au public ; durant l'été 2021.Attention : nulle question (pour le moment) de la remettre en fonction !Il s'agit simplement d'en faire un lieu de visite accessible aux touristes curieux de voir à quoi pouvait ressembler une station de tramway souterraine construite au début du siècle dernier.En se fiant aux photos disponibles, on devinait déjà que le lieu était remarquablement bien conservé ; ce qui donnait un cachet certain à cet endroit caché.Ce n'est d'ailleurs pas pour rien que la station avait servi de décor de cinéma pour le film "Chapeau melon et bottes de cuir", sorti en 1998.Il s'agissait, alors, du repaire d'Uma Thurman et de Ralph Fiennes, dans le cadre de leurs aventures.Chère stationConstruite en 1906, la station de tramway Kingsway avait été fermée par les autorités londoniennes moins de 50 ans plus tard.La cause ?La concurrence exercée par le métro qui était vu – à cette époque – comme un moyen de transport plus rapide et plus confortable.Pendant toutes ces décennies de mise en sommeil, seul le tunnel d'entrée - situé en plein centre-ville de Londres - pouvait donc rappeler, aux passants les plus cultivés, l'existence de cette station issue d'un autre temps.De nos jours, les visiteurs les plus nostalgiques apprécieront probablement de visiter un tel legs de l'histoire du XXe siècle... mais pesteront certainement contre le prix particulièrement élevé de ce voyage dans le temps.En effet, les visites proposées par le London Transport Museum - qui ne durent qu'une petite heure - coûtent tout de même la coquette somme de... 45,50 livres (soit 54 euros) !À ce prix là, autant bien profiter du voyage temporel ! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Laura Hilton Brown: A Transplant's Perspective of London

City Dweller

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 20, 2021 28:55

In this episode, I talk with Laura Hilton Brown, the Program Manager for the London Transport Museum's Hidden London tours which offer the opportunity to explore parts of subterranean London. Laura is also one of four members of the team that deliver the Hidden London Hangouts, a weekly YouTube series that explores secrets spaces of London's transport system.

hilton transplants program managers london transport museum

Hyde Park Corner

Roundel Round We Go

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 3, 2021 55:41

Opened with a classic Leslie Green station building in 1906, the 1932 rebuilding of the station rendered the original entrance disused in favour of a subsurface booking hall featuring a display of model buses. Follow us on Instagram and Twitter @roundelroundpod, or email us at roundelroundpod@gmail.com Read Reuben Lane's reflection on a journey on the number 19 bus (contains sexual references) References The Underground Stations of Leslie Green by David Leboff (Capital Transport Publishing 2002) Tiles of the Unexpected by Douglas Rose (Capital Transport Publishing 2007) London Underground Stations by David Leboff (Ian Allan Publishing 1994) The Piccadilly Tube: The First Hundred Years by Mike Horne (Capital Transport Publishing 2007) Underground Architecture by David Lawrence (Capital Transport Publishing 1994) Building London's Underground by Antony Badsey-Ellis (Capital Transport Publishing 2016) Rails Through the Clay: A History of London's Tube Railways by Alan Arthur Jackson and Desmond F. Croome (Capital Transport Publishing 1993) Hidden London: Discovering the Forgotten Underground by David Bownes, Chris Nix, Siddy Holloway and Sam Mullins (Yale University Press 2019) London's Lost Tube Schemes by Antony Badsey-Ellis (Capital Transport Publishing 2005) Labyrinth: A Journey Through London's Underground by Tamsin Dillon, Will Self, Mark Wallinger, Marina Warner, Christian Wolmar, and Louise Coysh (Art/Books 2014) Why Do Shepherds Need a Bush?: London's Underground History of Tube Station Names by David Hilliam (The History Press 2015) What's in a Name?: Origins of Station Names on the London Underground by Cyril M Harris (Capital Transport Publishing; 4th edition 2001) 'World's most expensive hotel' put up for sale by Cahal Milmo (The Independent 17 September 2011) https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/world-s-most-expensive-hotel-put-sale-5364768.html Hansard - House of Commons debate Volume 274 column 843, Tuesday 14 February 1933 https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1933-02-14/debates/454c5110-982c-43ef-a31a-d95c6bb8fe13/OrdersOfTheDay Education, Literacy and the Reading Public by Amy J Lloyd, University of Cambridge https://www.gale.com/binaries/content/assets/gale-us-en/primary-sources/intl-gps/intl-gps-essays/full-ghn-contextual-essays/ghn_essay_bln_lloyd3_website.pdf St George's Hospital website https://www.stgeorges.nhs.uk/about/history/ Manor Castles website https://manorcastles.com/places/united-kingdom/greater-london/westminister/5-star/lanesborough-house/ London Transport Museum photographic archive - multiple images including: https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-66513 https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-81864 https://www.ltmuseum.co.uk/collections/collections-online/photographs/item/1998-84984

university world hospitals unexpected origins bush underground opened literacy commons st george tiles hyde park london underground will self marina warner christian wolmar london transport museum leslie green mark wallinger

Season finale, with Bernard Donoghue!

abandoned stations londoners london underground london transport museum

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 21, 2021 45:10

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends August 27th 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:www.twitter.com/bernarddonoghuewww.linkedin.com/in/bernard-donoghue-0aa9b97www.twitter.com/alva_ukwww.alva.org.uk/index.cfmBernard Donoghue is the Chief Executive of the Association of Leading Visitor Attractions (ALVA), the umbrella body for the UK's most popular, important and iconic palaces, castles, museums, galleries, heritage sites, stately homes, cathedrals, churches, gardens, zoos and leisure attractions. ALVA is a powerful advocate for the sector to Government, the media and business; it organises events, benchmarking, training, commissions research and the sharing of best practice for members across marketing, visitor experience, fundraising, public engagement, security, education, retail and a variety of other areas.In May 2017 he was appointed to be a member of the Mayor of London's Cultural Leadership Board and is the Mayor's Ambassador for Culture. He has been a member of the UK Government's Tourism Industry Council since 2014. In January 2021 he became Co-Chair of the London Tourism Recovery Board, to plan and deliver the strategic recovery of London's visitor economy and sits on the GLA's COVID Business Forum and various London Mayoral cultural and business recovery taskforces.Bernard has been Chair of the award-winning London International Festival of Theatre (LIFT) since 2010, having been a Board member since 2005 and Deputy Chair between 2007 and 2010. In June 2021 he became Chair of the Board of the Bristol Old Vic, the oldest continually operating theatre in the English-speaking world. He is a Trustee of the People's History Museum – the Museum of Democracy, in Manchester, and will take over as Chair of the Board in November 2021.He is a member of the Cathedral Council of St Paul's Cathedral, London, and a member of the Exhibition Advisory Board for Two Temple Place and the Hoare Trust. He was Chairman of WWF-UK's Council for 10 years, until 2020, and is a former trustee of WWF-UK. He has been a trustee of Centrepoint, Kids in Museums, the Museum of The Home and the Heritage Alliance. He has been a judge for the Museum and Heritage Awards since 2003.In October 2020 Bernard was named by Blooloop, the world's leading online resource for professionals working in visitor attractions, as one of the world's 50 most influential people in the museum sector. Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Bernard Donoghue, CEO of ALVA. We discuss what the fast-approaching end of restrictions mean for attractions, how to balance digital engagement with an overseas audience and what these past 15 months have really been like for Bernard personally. If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Bernard, I am so happy to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for coming on and joining us.Bernard Donoghue: It is my absolute pleasure. It was a choice between you and a meeting with four MPs so here we are.Kelly Molson: Well, I mean, I have to say, I'm clearly the better choice here. Thank you. Okay. As ever, we're going to start off with our ice breaker questions. If you had a time machine and you could travel backwards or forwards, what year would you go to and why?Bernard Donoghue: Oh, good lord. Sorry, by the way, this reminds me of the brilliant line by Sandi Toksvig. She was in a café in York once and there was a sign saying we serve tea at all times so she asked for a tea in the Renaissance, and they didn't understand her.Bernard Donoghue: I don't know. Wow. I don't know. I think possibly in the 1920s because you're just at the cusp of so many things. You're at the tail end of the Edwardian period so you've got all of that and then you're at the cusp of electricity and technology and radio and aeroplanes so probably then.Kelly Molson: We're hearing a lot about it being like the Roaring Twenties as well, aren't we? Once we get through all of this too. It's probably quite current that you've chosen that as well. Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. Kelly Molson: Obviously, flapper dresses because all of those were completely beautiful. I mean, I would be down with that.Bernard Donoghue: No. Seriously, I do look good in beads. It's true.Kelly Molson: I could see that about you. You've got that look. Great. Okay. If you were a WWF wrestler, which I can see actually, I feel like you've got the look of a wrestler about you as well, maybe not in beads, what would your entrance song be?Bernard Donoghue: For years, by the way, I used to be a trustee of WWF UK and all of my friends just assumed that I had a sort of parallel existence in spandex somewhere and I had to remind them that actually, no, it was about conservation. What would it be? Something from RuPaul's Drag Race actually because they're always fantastic. Yeah. When they come back on the stage at the end, that's the music.Kelly Molson: Okay. Something really flamboyant I feel like.Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. You know, you can strut ... I mean, I know strutting is not necessarily a WWF thing but presence is all.Kelly Molson: Absolutely. We can make it a thing. It can be whatever we want.Bernard Donoghue: Thank you.Kelly Molson: Okay. If you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?Bernard Donoghue: If I was 20, I think my advice to my 20-year-old self would be to make the ... This sounds a bit professional. Just make loads and loads of connections, network, network madly, even though, and this will come as a bit of a surprise, even though, I'm an introvert, get out there and network because it suddenly dawned on me in the last few years, when I was in my twenties, I was a campaigner, I was a young lobbyist and I worked for disability charities and all the people who did the same kind of job as me then, are all chief executives like me now. Bernard Donoghue: Of course, that makes sense because you grow through the ranks so now I've got a peer group of lots of chief executives in lots of very varied, different spheres and realms. It's been brilliant because we've all come through the ranks together and in good times and bad and now we've got a ready-made oven-roasted peer group that we can all rely on. There's about six of us. I think that.Bernard Donoghue: And B, take your job seriously but don't take yourself too seriously.Kelly Molson: That's good advice. That's really good advice. The networking thing is really interesting, somebody asked me a couple of weeks ago what has been the thing that ... What's been the one thing that I've invested the most in over the last few years that has made the biggest difference to my business and I completely agree with you and I said it is about building your network and it's about getting out there and making those connections because such incredible things come from knowing such a variety of different people in all kinds of sectors. You just never know what kind of opportunities and doors are going to be open for you from doing that.Kelly Molson: Also, you just can't grow a business on your own or do anything on your own. You need that peer support around you. Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. You're absolutely right. The key to that is knowing people who are not like you and in businesses that are not like yours. In ALVA, for example, I hear it time and time again that museums and galleries don't actually learn much from other museums and galleries because they're all kind of in the same boats and cathedrals don't learn much from other cathedrals, but they will learn things from Zooms or Harry Potter or Warner Bros, so places that are very different to them and, therefore, come at an issue from a very different perspective. That's where you learn most.Kelly Molson: Absolutely. I completely agree with you on that one as well. That might come up later actually in our chat. Okay. Last one but it's your one, what's your unpopular opinion?Bernard Donoghue: I hate the phrases going forward, and very much, as in, "I am very much looking forward to it" or, "I am very much committed to this." I hate those phrases with a passion whereas it's clear other people don't. They would be capital punishments when I take over the rule. Bernard Donoghue: What's another unpopular opinion? I cannot see how people can watch Jeremy Clarkson. I don't get it. Absolutely don't get it at all. Oh, oh, here's one actually and it's only because it was his birthday last week, I have never understood Bob Dylan and his popularity.Kelly Molson: Wow. Gosh, that's quite a strong one.Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. I don't get it. Kelly Molson: Okay. Bernard Donoghue: Glad he's around, glad he's there, not for me, thank you.Kelly Molson: I like that. Bob Dylan and Jeremy Clarkson was not a mix I was expecting to get on the podcast today.Bernard Donoghue: They're not a duo that has ever performed together as far as I'm aware, or likely to. It's probably just as well.Kelly Molson: It wouldn't make either of them even more appealing to you, though, would it? Not really.Bernard Donoghue: No. I think I would have to take out a restraining order if they decided that they wanted to come around.Kelly Molson: I love that. Well, let's see what our listeners think, Jeremy Clarkson fans out there? I don't know. It's not my cup of tea. Tweet us and let us know what you think about that. Kelly Molson: Now, Bernard, I don't even know where to start with this list so Mayor of London's Cultural Ambassador, CEO of ALVA, Co-chair of the London Tourism Recovery Board, Chair of LIFT Festival and Trustee of People's History Museum. Quite an impressive list that you've got going on there. What I want to know is where did it actually begin, though? Where did your connection with cultural heritage and attractions organisations start?Bernard Donoghue: I've always absolutely loved ... I'm kind of being paid for all the things that I would do at a weekend. Kelly Molson: Nice.Bernard Donoghue: You know, when I was a kid, my parents would take us around National Trust properties and English Heritage properties and stately homes and places like that so the first place that I went to was Waddesdon Manor, which if people don't know it, it's the maddest, most beautiful Loire valley style chateau but in the vale of Aylesbury, just outside Aylesbury. Built by the Rothschilds as kind of an entertaining pad. Absolutely beautiful, absolutely stunning.Bernard Donoghue: My first stately home ... Well, that's kind of a stately home. The first stately home is Blenheim Palace. I just got the bug. I just have loved history, heritage, visitor attractions since I was a kid. I went off to do political jobs and then back in '97 I joined Visit Britain as their first-ever head of government affairs, not quite a lobbyist because it's a government agency and so you're not allowed to be called a lobbyist, but it was all but a lobbyist. That just opened my eyes to tourism and then visitor attractions. Bernard Donoghue: On the culture side, the theatre side, the theatre has always been a complete passion so I stepped down this year as chair of LIFT London International Festival of Theatre after 11 years and I'm just about to go onto the board of the British [inaudible 00:09:15]. My theatre passion continues.Kelly Molson: I love that. I love what you said, I get paid to do all the things that I would love to do on the weekend. What a fantastic role to be in. Bernard Donoghue: It's absolutely true. I should show you my wallet actually. My wallet is full of membership cards, as in 30 of them, so occasionally I'll look at my wallet and think, "This is money laundering essentially." I'm being paid and I'm paying them back in return. This is just a circular economy.Kelly Molson: That's one of the things that you've done really well throughout the pandemic is you've been so supportive and you've been really proactive on Twitter about saying to people, "Look, if you want these places to still be around when we come out of this, buy the membership, buy something from their shop when their shops are open, or buy something from them online" and I think it's been such a positive message to send out the whole way through, so not money laundering, supportive. Being very supportive in your role.Bernard Donoghue: You'd have to talk to my bank manager because some days it was like money laundering.Kelly Molson: There are loads of things that I want to talk about going forward, even though you don't like that but what I want to go back to is a little bit in the past as well. I really want to talk about what it's been like for you personally. I think you have been a real kind of pillar of strength to the sector and huge support and I think that as wonderful as that's been, that can bring its own challenges on yourself as well. Kelly Molson: Ultimately, you're the person that's putting out this kind of positive message all the time and being really actively encouraging but I could imagine that's had a lot of pressures and challenges for you personally as well. What has it been like, the last 15 months? How have you motivated yourself to be upbeat and positive throughout all of this?Bernard Donoghue: Well, that's very kind, first of all. Thank you. I think I divide it between last March until Christmas and then sort of Christmas onwards. Last March until Christmas, there was a sense of really being able to cope because the adrenaline was getting you through. It was all novel and new and I've always thrived in crisis management. In all the roles that I've had over the last 20 years, crisis management has been at the heart of that, whether that's about actively managing crises or the corporate PR response or being a spokesperson or whatever.Bernard Donoghue: In some ways, I sort of thrived on all of that through adrenaline. It's been much, much more draining and exhausting since Christmas and I think that's probably the same for everybody actually. We've gone through it again and actually, it's no longer new and it's no longer novel and now it's just sapping.Bernard Donoghue: I have often felt on an almost kind of daily basis, and this is just honest, I'm not exaggerating, there's quite a lot resting on my shoulders and it feels quite lonely because the advice from the government has been so inconsistent and so unclear and often contradictory. There's a small group of about three or four of us in the tourism sector who have had to daily unpick all of that and interpret it for our respective sectors.Bernard Donoghue: I know that if I weren't doing that then it just wouldn't get done ... It would probably get done somewhere at somehow at some point but, as you know, I do a daily bulletin so it goes out every evening at six o'clock with the latest information. There's a real sense of I need to get this out and get it done every day. Bernard Donoghue: I've made a rod and back really because there was nothing that I would love more than stop doing these bulletins. That's not possible while we're still in a state of flux. It's been a bit lonely. It's been odd working from home when normally I would be a consummate traveller and visit loads of my members around the country. There's been a lot of pressure but the feedback from people about the vital nature of the information and the advocacy and all the rest of it, and the achievements actually, has been extraordinary.Bernard Donoghue: I don't think myself, my work has ever been more exposed than it has in the course of the last 15 months. Sometimes that felt scary and sometimes that felt brilliant.Kelly Molson: I think as well it's never been more celebrated as well because you have had so much support from the sector. There are a lot of people looking for you. Like you say, you're delivering daily bulletins, you've been doing incredible webinars with ALVA so regularly, you've opened those up to non-members as well so everybody can benefit from the knowledge on them. There's a lot of eyes on you as well. That's a lot of pressure. I think from a positive perspective, what I see being delivered back to you is nothing but encouragement. Everybody has been so incredibly supportive of what you're doing and so grateful for the things that you're doing for them. I think that's been really lovely to see.Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. It absolutely has and, in particular, from those organisations and businesses who, as you say, are not members of ALVA, I mean, I took the decision on day one that although ALVA is a tiny organisation and people will probably be really surprised, there's me and one other member of staff.Kelly Molson: Wow. I'm surprised.Bernard Donoghue: We're just two people. Lucy is brilliant. She's our finance and business manager. She's living in Norwich and I'm here in London. It's just the two of us. It's a tiny organisation so we're spread very, very thin. But given the nature of our members and my role of years in getting high-level meetings with government and all of that, I just thought we're in a leadership role here, we should use that for the benefit of everybody, let's be generous, let's not be parochial.Bernard Donoghue: We made the decision to commission all the research and give it out for free, and that visitor sentiment research has just been vital. It was one of the best things that we did. Open up our webinars to everybody. If anybody wants a bulletin, they could go on the mailing list. Whether they're members of ALVA or not because there was the analogy, it's been used a lot of times but I think it's true, we're not actually all in the same boat. We're all in the same storm but we're in very, very different boats and some are bigger and more stable than others. We happen to be in a relatively stable, well-structured boat so I think it's beholden on me and us to try and help everybody as much as possible.Kelly Molson: I am absolutely gobsmacked that it's just the two of you. I did not know that myself and I think that's an incredible achievement, what you've been doing, just the two of you to organise all of that. Wow. Hats off to you both there.Bernard Donoghue: It's exhausting. I mean, look at me. I'm actually 47 in real life.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Me too. That's what I tell to everyone, Bernard. Gosh, that really has surprised me. Just go back because you said about you're a big traveller, you would be out and about all over the place and up and down the country, I'm sure, what do you think that you'll take away as a positive from the time that you spent working at home? Are there any kinds of changes that you'll make to your working habits? Kelly Molson: For example, I would commute to my office on a daily basis, I would often be out in London or all over the place doing meetings. Now I start to think, well, some of them I'm really missing but some of them are actually probably a bit unnecessary, we can cut down on the fuels that we're burning, we can cut down on the time that we have, and I've actually quite enjoyed having a little bit more personal time to do things like eating better because you don't eat that well when you're travelling or doing a little bit more exercise. Have you found that there are some positive things that you can take from this that you'd continue?Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. There's a number. I mean, one was we made the decision, we used to have an office in Somerset House on the Strand, a beautiful, beautiful room in grade one listed former palace. Absolutely gorgeous. Looking down onto the piazza, currently covered in trees. I couldn't justify the cost because Lucy, my colleague, went over to Norwich to be near her parents. We very sadly lost one of our colleagues. There used to be three of us in the office and we lost one of our colleagues last year to cancer. Bernard Donoghue: There were just the two of us and I thought I can't justify an office just for me, lovely, though, it is so actually we haven't had an office. We've given it up, which means that I am, for the foreseeable future, working at home. There are plus things to that ... Well, this is a plus and a minus, this is no particular priority order, we've got a cat, Tom, he's a badsy cat. I think he's going to go into trauma whenever we leave the house.Kelly Molson: Oh gosh. Yeah. Bernard Donoghue: We've been around 24/7. We are now more grateful ... When I say we, this isn't a royal we. This is me and my partner. We are now more grateful than we ever thought possible to have a garden in central London. That's just been fantastic. Bernard Donoghue: But I am looking forward to getting back to some degree of working normality because I have to say I've never worked longer or harder than I have over the course of the last 15 months. It's been exhausting.Bernard Donoghue: On a normal day, I would probably have five or six, at least, one-hour Zoom meetings back to back. And then write the bulletin at six o'clock in the evening. Typically, I'm working from about 7:30 in the morning until about seven in the evening. I was doing a bit of that pre-COVID but it's pretty unsustainable so I'd like to get back to a degree of normality.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Definitely. I think that the difference between having multiple face to face meetings during the day is very different to the Zoom meetings. I don't know about you but my diary gets crazy and I look and I think, "I've got four back to back" and there's no time to process in-between. It's that cognitive overload whereas if you had back-to-back face-to-face meetings you don't get the same kind of drained feeling. Yeah. I really feel you on that. It's definitely been longer working hours for us here as well. I really sympathise.Bernard Donoghue: Also, I mean, the meetings that I'm having, bluntly, you can't coast because either I'm the guest speaker so you can't wing it, or it's a meeting with ministers or SAGE or public health England and so it's serious grownup stuff. You can't step back, you can't just switch off, you can't think I'm going to coast this for half an hour, I hope that nobody asks me a question because they're not those kinds of meetings.Kelly Molson: No. You can't switch off your Zoom and quickly grab a cup of tea and a biscuit while everyone else is talking, can you? It's not the done thing. Bernard Donoghue: It's not really, no. Kelly Molson: That was a good segue into something that's going to happen today. We are recording this and it is the seventh of June. There are reports that Matt Hancock is going to give us another COVID statement this afternoon and, potentially, that is about the dates that we are due to be opening up with no restrictions.Kelly Molson: Now I want to ask you a little bit about what that means for attractions and what we could potentially now be looking at. We are hopefully coming through to the other side. The vaccine program is doing phenomenal things. What does this fast-approaching end to restrictions mean for attractions now? Do you think that we're going to see this extended?Bernard Donoghue: It's a really good question. I've been talking to about five or six chief execs over the course of the weekend just about guidance and advice. I think there are two very significant things and at first glance, they're in contradiction with each other. The first is that the longer we have social distancing measures and face mask use and mitigation measures in place, the longer it will take for the sector to recover.Bernard Donoghue: When we have businesses, whether it's a hotel or bar or restaurant, a theatre or an attraction when we have those businesses opening up one-third capacity, none of them is making a profit. Actually, they're opening for PR purposes and in order to achieve fuller visitor figures down the track so no one is operating profitably.Bernard Donoghue: Getting those backup and running is really critical but we know from all of our visitor sentiment that still 80%, eight zero, 80% of the British public are uneasy or cautious about those very mitigation measures, like social distancing and face mask use, being eased too early. Bernard Donoghue: Visitor attractions are faced with a real dilemma I think, which is if it's announced that on the 21st of June all social distancing measures are lifted throughout England and, therefore, visitor attractions can up the numbers, don't have to do face mask use measures, abandon social distancing, still the vast majority of their visitors won't like that and will feel uncomfortable and a tiny minority will think they're in bliss and think that they're liberated and all the rest of it.Bernard Donoghue: My advice has been to visitor attractions, you and your visitors have to be the ultimate arbiter of the visitor experience. It may well be that you have to keep social distancing and face mask use measures in a place way beyond the 21st of September because that's what the public wants so, even though, you are technically allowed to get rid of those things by government, actually, take your lead from the public because they're going to be the ultimate arbiters. Bernard Donoghue: Those things are potentially in contradiction with each other. One of the things I'm constructing literally this week is some ALVA national advice to visitor attractions so that front of house staff can basically say to an irate guest on the 22nd of June, "I know the government has just announced that but actually, we're adhering to ALVA national advice" in order that they don't get than that confrontational pushback from members of the public because I genuinely feel that the loudest voices are for liberation but the quietest voices are for care, safety, sensible precautions and we need to manage that really, really carefully.Kelly Molson: That's a really difficult challenge, isn't it? For front of house staff that will be in that position of having to push back on people. I can see it in my head happening. There's an encounter where people are angry about the fact they're being told that they still have to wear their mask, yet the government has said that they don't need to do this anymore. I can't imagine how difficult that's going to be so I think what you're putting in place is a really valuable kind of asset for the organisations to have.Bernard Donoghue: We saw some examples, relatively limited, but we saw some examples of poor behaviour on the parts of the public last year when attractions reopened for, frankly ... It's not an excuse but it is understandable. They, like us, we're tired, fraught, and quick to anger, end of their tether, and they just wanted to get out and be in nice places. We've seen some of that poor behaviour on the part of the public again this time round as indoor and outdoor attractions. Bernard Donoghue: Honestly, for every one person who pushes back saying, "Don't make me wear a mask. Don't manage my social distancing", there are nine others watching saying, "Well done, you. You're doing exactly the right thing." That, I think should be the barometer of safety.Kelly Molson: How does this work with ... What we want to see is attractions open and open at full capacity. But we, obviously, have got this challenge around overseas visitors and many of them not being able to come here, many of them not feeling safe to come here at the moment, understandably. How do attractions manage that? If they can open at full capacity, is the reality that they're not going to be at full capacity because we just don't have that influx of people that we need?Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. That's right. I mean, bluntly, there are some visitor attractions in the UK and just off the top of my head, they're places like the British Museum, Edinburgh Castle, Stonehenge, Westminster Abbey, St. Paul's Cathedral, Tower of London that are so heavily dependent on overseas visitors, inbound visitors coming from the rest of the world, that even the best ever staycation this summer won't help them repair their balance sheets. Bernard Donoghue: We've made it really clear to ministers ... I took the minister for London and the minister for tourism round four visitor attractions in London a couple of weeks ago to Westminster Abbey, Tower of London, London Transport Museum and the Royal Opera House and, at each one, showed them what a COVID safe welcome and visitor experience looks so they were comfortable with that but also made it clear to them that some of those, particularly, the Royal Opera House, Tower of London, Westminster Abbey are so dependent on inbound visitors that they will require additional support way beyond the rest of the sector to really recover sustainably because their visitors, their market won't come back in any meaningful numbers until next year.Bernard Donoghue: It was really to peg to ministers even if you lift all restrictions on the 21st of June, that's not the end of the story. Kelly Molson: Yeah. Yeah. You have to be prepared to give more support past that point as well. Those attractions, in particular, that do rely really heavily on overseas visitors, what can they start to think about putting in place at this point? I know there are many attractions that have put on lots of digital events or things that people can engage with online. Do you see that continuing hugely for the rest of the year and then into 2022 as well?Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. Yeah. I do. I mean, we've talked about this actually. At the VAC conference, one of the great achievements of last year was the explosion in digital content and not just the amount of it but the diversity and the brilliance and the innovative use of digital. I think because the last year has been sort of chaotic and odd and no holds barred, it's just liberated a lot of organisations to take risks with their programming and their content and their decision making in a way that they would never have conceived of before and to speed up some of their decision makings and just to think actually let's just do it and see what happens.Bernard Donoghue: I think the digital explosion has been absolutely phenomenal so downloadable jigsaws and recipe books and maps and behind the scenes tours and going up into the attic of buildings and into the archives, all of that, absolutely phenomenal. Bernard Donoghue: It hasn't particularly connected with audiences who weren't already interested in those buildings so it's had some public engagement successes but not massive but what it has made people do is get on the customer journey so if they're seeing the stuff online, they'll one day aspire to be there and stand there on the spot because it can't replace the actual physical experience of being there.Bernard Donoghue: In terms of digital output, the Bristol Old Vic, and the London Symphony Orchestra, they've both made decisions recently that in addition to their live performances, they're going to broadcast their performances on digital as well. If you're in Tokyo or San Francisco, you can subscribe to watch these performances, a bit like a Netflix subscription, so you buy a book of 10 performances at reduced costs.Bernard Donoghue: What this means, of course, is that those theatres, that orchestra is getting a whole new audience who are paying money that they never had before but they're also starting them on a customer journey so that person in Tokyo one day, hopefully, will want to stand in the Bristol Old Vic and see where David Garrick performed. You're getting them on that customer journey whilst also monetizing it as well.Bernard Donoghue: I think that's probably the biggest evolution and change to businesses in the course of the last year. You may have got round to it in about three or four years time but all of that has just been sort of contracted and sped up in an extraordinary way.Kelly Molson: It's what you said, it's about risk-taking. I can remember having this conversation with Laura Crossley from the National Football Museum. They came on the podcast to talk about their podcast and they said that actually, it was something they'd been talking about for ages, they were going to do it, and then things kept getting in the way. Ultimately, they just got to a point where they were like, "Let's just try it. Let's just throw something at it. Let's see if it sticks and let's just do it." Kelly Molson: I loved that attitude that has been taken by so many different organisations this year and it's propelled them forward in a digital sense because let's just try it, who knows what's going to happen? None of us had a clue what was going to happen last March. That whole attitude about risk-taking I think is really important and I'd really like to see that continue as well.Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. Me too. I mean, two years ago, people would have thought it would be utterly impossible to run a business with nearly all of their staff working from home and even if they thought it was possible, it didn't sound particularly attractive because it just sounded too complicated and messy. Look where we are now.Bernard Donoghue: Things can be done. I think one of the things that we've done for years is collect all of the visitor numbers from all of our members and then publish them in the media in March. I've done some longitudinal research to look at are there common characteristics or behaviours on the part of those visitor attractions that sustainably and successfully grow their visitor numbers but also diversify their business numbers as well? Bernard Donoghue: I do a presentation and a workshop on this and, funnily enough, there are. There are common behaviours. You can absolutely see them. In that group of about six or seven behaviours, one of them is about the appetite for risk on the part of the board and senior management. The other one is about the confidence to foster creative partnerships with unusual suspects. Don't just work with the people who are your natural neighbours, either physically or theoretically, but actually, this is something we were talking about at the beginning, try and foster creative partnerships with people who are not like you and, therefore, they bring something completely different to the party.Kelly Molson: That's going back to what we talked about, about museums not learning from other museums and theatres not learning from other theatres because you're just in the same challenges all the time. Looking at that kind of wider sector communication of sector cooperation even and seeing where the boundaries overlap and what you can do that like you said, the theme park or the zoo down the road might be doing but you're a theatre. How can you embrace some of the things that they're using?Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. Yeah. One of my favourite examples recently is that I was down ... I've managed to get out of London a couple of times since September in the last three weeks and I was down at Bristol going to see the Bristol Old Vic. They're doing something really, really clever, which is they have just parted ways with their in-house catering company and they've just decided that they want to be a community showcase so they're getting in local Bristol restaurants and chefs to be their in-house caterer for a month and they have a different one every month.Bernard Donoghue: It's just blindingly brilliant because, A, they're connecting with their communities, they're showcasing the diversity of food in the local area, it's all five-mile menu stuff so it's all locally sourced. But it also means there's a new reason to come back every month, even if you don't go to the theatre to see a show, you'll go there to eat. I just think that was genius.Kelly Molson: It is genius.Bernard Donoghue: I've been sharing that with a lot of museums and galleries and heritage attractions saying actually if you're in-between contracts and you're thinking about an interim period between catering contracts, why don't you think about this?Kelly Molson: That is an absolutely brilliant idea because I love attractions but I'm a big foodie as well so, for me, I'd be looking and going, "Oh, well, I need to book a table at that place at least once a month now because I'm going to go back and I'm going to experience a different food" or, "I've really wanted to go to that person's restaurant, how amazing, I can combine eating that person's food with a show that's on at the same time." It's a genius idea.Bernard Donoghue: It really anchors the theatre in its community. We've seen over the course of the last year that the wreaking of your community and understanding your community and reflecting back who your community are through your work and your HR programs and your staff recruitment measures and all those kind of things, that's been absolutely key because if you lose your connection with the community, you're lost and wondering.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Completely agree. I think, for me, personally, that's one of the best things that have come out of this. As an individual, I've always been really keen on supporting local independents and shopping locally anyway but even more so since this happened because you can see the effect of what's happened so drastically on your own community. You want to be able to do as much to support that as possible. That is such a great idea. I hope everyone that's listening picks up on that because I just think that is awesome. Well done, them. Kelly Molson: We're coming to the end of the podcast interview but I can't not ask you what's next for ALVA? What have you got planned that's coming next? It's been a pretty full-on year. Are the webinars going to continue? Are your daily bulletins going to continue for the foreseeable future? Sounds like you might need a little bit of a break at some point.Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. Well, the daily bulletins will certainly continue because I don't think anything is going to change significantly until September or such. The webinars are coming back. We took a month off from the weekly webinars so we had a webinar every Wednesday from the beginning of January until last month with over 50 case studies from across the UK. I mean, they were all amazing. Absolutely amazing.Bernard Donoghue: I think, by the way, that it's been through the webinars and also your work as well, that we've got to know what people are doing in a little bit more detail and from unusual suspects in a way that we didn't really before. We always used to rely on big annual conferences to get case studies and stuff. Now we're just full of case studies everywhere. I love that more generous, more open, more accessible, more sharing environment that we now inhabit.Bernard Donoghue: The webinars are coming back at the end of June. They'll probably be fortnightly and our first webinars will be the latest wave of visitor sentiment research so what are people thinking about now? Are they confident about going back into attractions? Are they confident about social distancing measures and those kinds of things?Bernard Donoghue: Also, we'll be doing case studies about post-21st of June, how visitor attractions are going to cope with that dilemma about being told, on the one hand, you can open with no restrictions, on the other hand, knowing well, that their visitors require and expect some degree of social distancing and protection of safety measures. How do you balance those two things? Those will be the first two webinars.Bernard Donoghue: Then beyond that, I suspect global domination. Kelly Molson: Of course. It's the obvious next step, isn't it?Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. I mean, I don't want to get Napoleonic about it all but I think we could be replicated around the world.Kelly Molson: Well, actually, on that note, what can people that are listening, what can our listeners do to support ALVA? Bearing in mind that I've had the bombshell that it's just the two of you that are doing all of these things. What can our listeners do to help you back?Bernard Donoghue: Oh, well, the most useful thing and I've said this a lot, honestly, it's been my complete saviour, is that we wouldn't have been able to achieve things like the reduced rate of VAT for visitor attractions, the continuation of furlough, the construction and the creation of the Cultural Recovery Fund, I mean, all of those critical measures for the tourism sector ... I mean, the tourism sector, by a long country mile, has been the part of the economy that's received the most financial support from the government. Bernard Donoghue: I think it's partly because we were hit first, hit hardest, and we'll take the longest to recover but it's also because we've had amazing data. I know data is a bit un-sexy but, honestly, we couldn't have got through the meetings that we've had with treasury and number 10 and DCMS and public health England and the Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland governments without the depth of really, really useful data that visitor attractions have been able to provide us, what their percentage of furlough rates are, where they've had to make staff redundancies in what areas, where their visitor numbers have been affected, the difference between the dependence on domestic and inbound tourism, conversion rates in shops, average transaction values.Bernard Donoghue: All of that kind of stuff has just been bliss to work with because it's really good, really solid, well-evidenced data and as a lobbyist, that's just gold. Keep giving us information, anecdotes, case studies, and experiences as well. Those case studies can often feed through to government ministers in a way that just a raft of figures can't. If you can bring it to life, particularly, in small kind of epithets like sanitise the site, not the visitor experience and you can't furlough a penguin. Really short, understandable, Sesame Street type lobbying, that works.Kelly Molson: I love that. Keep sharing, keep cooperating, keep helping others, and we'll get through the other side in the best position that we possibly can.Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. I'm confident of it. Absolutely confident of it.Kelly Molson: Good. I'm really glad to hear that. Last question for you, we always end our podcast by asking our guests for a book that they love or a book that's helped shape their career in some way. Can you suggest one for us today?Bernard Donoghue: Actually, if I'm going to be really, really honest I'm not sure that I'd be in my job today were it not for Lady Bird books, that I had when I was a kid. Everything from Marie Curie to the plant life of Africa through Joan of Arc through to Christopher Columbus. Honestly, those Lady Bird books ignited my curiosity and the more I got, the more I started just reading about heritage and history and sciences and those kinds of things. Bernard Donoghue: Yeah. I mean, it's not quite Brideshead Revisited but if I was going to be completely honest, it would be the collection of Lady Bird books that my parents got for me from car boot sales and secondhand shops when I was a kid.Kelly Molson: Oh, I love that. I can remember them all lined up on the bookshelf as well with all the different coloured spines. Beautiful. All right. We'll choose one. Let's have a think, off-podcast, and we'll choose one. Then as ever, if you want to win that book when we decide what it is if you head over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with, "I want Bernard's book" then you're going to be in with the chance of winning it.Bernard Donoghue: Actually, I have got spare copies of the Lady Bird book of London from about 1960. I'm very, very happy to donate it.Kelly Molson: Oh my gosh. Well, that would be fantastic. If you're happy to do that then all right, listeners, get tweeting and you could be in with the chance of winning. That's a really lovely gift. Thank you. Bernard, I've loved having you on today. Thank you so much. You are our season finale as well because we're going to have a little bit of a break over summer and we're going to come back again in October once all of you listeners will be so busy over summer with plenty to do. You'll have more interesting things to do than listen to this podcast every day. Kelly Molson: I'm really delighted that you could be our season finale. Thank you. I know how busy you are and, even more so, having had a chat today. We'll put all of your contact details and everything into the show notes so people can find where you are. If you're not following Bernard on Twitter, then, one, you're a fool and, two, where have you been for the last 15 months? Because, for me, personally, if there's been anything that I've needed to understand about what the sector is going through or go and find, it's either speaking to people on this podcast or it's go and follow ALVA and Bernard on Twitter and I'll always find out the answer to what I want. Thank you for being such constant support and thank you for all of the hard work that you've been putting out there through this pandemic. Really appreciate it.Bernard Donoghue: Oh, no. It's my pleasure and for those of you who do follow me on Twitter, I can only apologise for my behaviour on Eurovision song contest night. I just got carried away and it was inappropriate.Kelly Molson: What goes on on Eurovision, stays on Eurovision, Bernard. Don't worry about that.Bernard Donoghue: Thank you very much.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us. Remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by rubber cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

covid-19 christmas ceo spotify netflix culture english kids uk pr england british san francisco zoom africa home government board open theater harry potter mayors built competition md tokyo museum council ambassadors manchester democracy season finale honestly scottish renaissance tower skip bob dylan warner bros customer service tourism welsh northern ireland arc trustees hats eurovision ultimate guide chief executives sesame street strand rupaul wwf bearing cathedrals drag race co chair museums norwich mps stonehenge st paul user experience christopher columbus lady bird rothschild queue attractions uk government marie curie vat british museum loire national trust alva westminster abbey roaring twenties matt hancock zooms jeremy clarkson edwardian napoleonic deputy chair vac royal opera house donoghue london symphony orchestra history museum experience economy podcastif gla digital engagement somerset house english heritage edinburgh castle blenheim palace brideshead revisited sandi toksvig aylesbury dcms centrepoint business recovery cultural ambassador bristol old vic mayor of london tourism marketing paul's cathedral london mayoral national football museum london transport museum david garrick waddesdon manor london international festival blooloop kelly molson two temple place

31. Abandoned London Underground Stations

London History

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 20, 2020 20:24

Join us as we discuss London’s disused underground stations with London Transport Museum’s Siddy Holloway as she shares the hidden London underneath our feet. Learn things about London that most Londoners don't even know in a 20 minute espresso shot episode of London history with a splash of personality. There's so much we can't fit into our tours, no matter how hard we try. This London history podcast is where we can get down and dirty with the detail! You're not going to find this level of detail in any guidebook. Let us know if there's a particular person, event or place you want to know more about in our podcast. Send us your suggestion / request. Rate, Review & Subscribe on Apple Podcasts. Show notes, including transcript, photos and recommended reading: www.londonguidedwalks.co.uk/031-abandoned-london-underground-stations --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/londonguidedwalks/message

Captain Sir Tom Moore, London Transport Museum and upcycling on the farm

Activity Quest

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 5, 2020 21:11

In this episode of Activity Quest, Bex is visiting the London Transport Museum in Covent Garden to find out all about the history of the underground and the ways people have moved around the capital. We’re flying, driving and running in our guide of what’s on across the UK. At It’s at Durham Tees Valley Airport in Darlington is Eden Flight Training. But if flying isn't your thing, there's the Firefly Experience from Young Driver. And for the first time ever Race for the Kids is going virtual. It’s to support Great Ormond Street Hospital’s children’s charity. Choose a distance and run, walk, wheel, skip or scoot across that virtual finish line to help raise some money for seriously ill kids. Then, we're chatting to Captain Sir Tom Moore. Almost six months ago, at the age of 99, Captain Tom Moore began to walk laps of his garden with the goal of raising £1,000 by his hundredth birthday. Well he beat that by quite a lot. Almost £33 million he raised for the NHS. Since then, he’s had a number one single, he’s been knighted by the Queen as Captain Sir Tom Moore, and now Bex – fresh from the London Transport Museum! – is catching up with him about a brand new book called One Hundred Steps. Finally, we're upcycling on the farm with Anna Louise. Tell us what you’re up to at FunKidsLive.com/ActivityQuest and we might use what you send us in a future episode. Opening times and prices correct as of recording. Check before you travel and follow local government guidance regarding COVID-19. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

covid-19 kids uk race captain farm nhs darlington upcycling bex covent garden tom moore great ormond street hospital sir tom london transport museum anna louise

The importance of Sector Cooperation with Carlton Gajadhar and Rachel Mackay

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 23, 2020 43:52

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends October 31st 2020. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:Carlton GajadharCarlton provides expert consultation to brands and organisations within the tourist attractions industry. As a freelance consultant in visitor experience development, Carlton has overseen the debut of global attractions that include Kuwait’s renowned Sheikh Abdullah Al Salem Cultural Centre and the Al Salam Palace Museum — each a national landmark built to share and preserve the culture of the region.Carlton earned a Masters in International Tourism Management from the University of Lincoln. Over ten years, he has lent his leadership and advice to stand out brands like Merlin Entertainments, Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park, The Coca-Cola London Eye, Madame Tussaud’s, and companies from an array of industries.www.carlton-gajadhar.com/https://twitter.com/carltongajadhar Rachel MackayA museum and heritage professional currently managing Kew Palace at Historic Royal Palaces. Huge experience of leading change in several visitor attractions from national museums to Royal Palaces. Specialist areas are visitor experience and operations. Studied medieval history and Masters degree in Heritage Management.The Recovery Room was created as a resource for sharing research around crisis management of the Covid-19 crisis in museums and heritage organisations.https://twitter.com/rachmackayhttps://www.therecoveryroomblog.com/https://www.therecoveryroomblog.com/guide-for-front-line-managers VE: Forumhttps://vedf.weebly.com/Membership of the VE:Forum is FREE and open to anybody working in a customer service management or leadership role, whether from a charity or a publicly-funded organisation, or a commercial operation.To join, simply sign up to the mailing list https://vedf.weebly.com/contact.html Transcription:Kelly Molson:Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. These chats are fun, informative, and hopefully always interesting.In today's episode, I'm joined by two guests, Carlton Gajadhar, a Visitor Experience professional, and Co-founder of the Visitor Experience Forum.And Rachel Mackay, Manager of Historic Palaces at Kew, including Kew Palace and the Great Pagoda. We discuss lockdown experiences in both the UK and Kuwait, crisis management for museums and heritage organizations, and improving sector cooperation. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson:Oh guys, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's really, really lovely to have you both on.Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah no, thanks for having us. We're really excited to come and join you today. So yeah, let's do this.Kelly Molson:Let's do this. Well, I mean, you know how this podcast starts, right?Carlton Gajadhar:I know.Kelly Molson:So it's icebreaker question time. All right, I've got really good ones for you both. Right, Carlton, I'm going to start with you first. So, what would be your superpower and why?Carlton Gajadhar:I will say, invisibility.Kelly Molson:Yeah.Carlton Gajadhar:I can go anywhere and everywhere and nobody will be able to see me and I can snoop on people and get all the juicy gossip and all that kind of stuff.Kelly Molson:Yeah, lovely.Carlton Gajadhar:So that's what I would do.Kelly Molson:Yeah, 100%. We'd all take that opportunity, wouldn't we?Carlton Gajadhar:No.Kelly Molson:Right. Rachel, I've got a good one for you. What's your favorite Eurovision song?Rachel Mackay:Wow, you've done your research. Okay, good. My God, well that's an easy one. It would have to be the last time the UK won, so 1997, Katrina Waves, Love Shine a Light is the best song but I do think that almost every Eurovision song is a banger.Rachel Mackay:There's only a few that are not, so I could really choose anyone but that's got to be the best one. I actually cry when I listen to it. There's a real emotional experience for me.Kelly Molson:It's a really good song though. It's surprising how many good songs have come out of Eurovision, right?Rachel Mackay:No. It's not a surprise. It's a fantastic musical contest.Kelly Molson:It is glorious. I've got really good memories of listening to it with my nann, weirdly and my nann was a massive Eurovision fan. So while we're on this topic, what about the Icelandic song from this year because that was good?Rachel Mackay:I love it.Carlton Gajadhar:Yes. That was awesome.Rachel Mackay:I was actually thinking about, we'll actually buy tickets to see them in April because I think they are fantastic and I really want to go to Iceland, I've never been and I think, well actually, they could win next year, now that they've got ... Because they've got a better following now, that band. So I think 2022, Reykyavik, I'll see you there.Kelly Molson:You would love Iceland.Rachel Mackay:It is.Kelly Molson:It is a great place. We went about three years ago and it's been the best place that I've ever been. It is so spectacular and so different. I'm a bit of a winter girl, really, I kind of like coats and hats and boots and stuff.Rachel Mackay:Me too.Kelly Molson:So it's my dress vibe there.Rachel Mackay:I went to Lisbon in 2018 and that was the first time I'd actually been to the contest. It was just amazing, the cooperation between everybody and how much everybody loved each other. And it was just hugging everybody that was wearing all different flags and especially, post-Brexit, it was such a lovely feeling. It was one of the best weekends of my life.Kelly Molson:Oh, that's amazing. I'm so glad I did my homework with this question. Right Carlton, back to you. Ooh, I like this question. If you can have an unlimited supply of one food for the rest of your life, what would it be?Carlton Gajadhar:Ooh, I love pasta. I can eat pasta until I die, honestly. Any sauce, any shape of pasta, just bring it on.Kelly Molson:Carb fest, massive carb fest.Carlton Gajadhar:Yes. I love pasta.Kelly Molson:I'm so with you on that one, actually. Although I'd be a whale because carbs and me, we just don't agree.Carlton Gajadhar:Oh, don't worry about that. It's fine.Kelly Molson:You've got the physique for it. You've got the metabolism and the physique for the carb overloading.Carlton Gajadhar:Of course. Of course.Kelly Molson:Right. Okay. Last icebreaker question and then it's onto the unpopular opinions. Rachel, what fictional family would you be a member of, if you could?Rachel Mackay:Oh, actually, the family from Schitt's Creek definitely. They're really good, they're fantastic. I don't know if you watch that show but it just gets better and better and you just love them more and more and more, as it goes on. And all four are hilarious. Sometimes, I talk like Moira Rose now, which is a real bad habit to break but yeah, definitely. The Roses from Schitt's Creek.Kelly Molson:I've just started it. That's been recommended to me so many times. It's brilliant.Rachel Mackay:It gets better and better and better. I think the moment where you fall in love with it, is the last episode of season 2 and then it just gets better from thereon in.Kelly Molson:Good too. Good questions, good answers as well. Thank you. Right, unpopular opinions. What is something that you believe to be true, that hardly anybody else agrees with you on?Rachel Mackay:I had thought of something but now I feel like when I see it, people will think I'm a bit one track. It's to do with Eurovision, so I don't want people to get the wrong idea about me but my unpopular opinion is and this is actually true, which is that the best music of the 20th and 21st Century has come out of the Eurovision Song Contest.Rachel Mackay:And also, the European Song Contest is like a great mirror of European politics and actually, a really intellectual form of study. When I was at uni, we did a module on international relations and you had to come prepared with a current news topic. And I would always come in one-shop about the European Song Contest and they just kind of rolled my eyes at me. I'm like, "Look, you want to see European politics in action, just watch Eurovision Song Contest, it's so easy." So, yeah, that's my-Kelly Molson:Did anyone agree with you? Was this a really unpopular opinion?Rachel Mackay:Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Although there are people who have degrees because I've been to a Eurovision conference and people have degrees in Eurovision. They did their post-grads in Eurovision studies and all that kind of stuff. Yeah.Kelly Molson:This is amazing, I actually have a friend, who's another agency owner, who is a huge Eurovision fan and she's going to love this episode. All right. Well look, this is the first time on this podcast that we've had two guests on at the same time. I'm really glad that you've both come on. There is a big reason for it. So you both work in very similar roles and you both know each other as well, which is great.Kelly Molson:You both have the visitor experience forum in common, which we're going to talk about in a little while. But what is really key and what really shines through with both of you is, that you have this real kind of passion and drive for improving sector cooperation. And that's what we want to talk about on the podcast today, that's why you're both on.Kelly Molson:But I think for us to get to the grips of, why that's key for you both and the things that you've been doing for the last few months to help that, we kind of have to go backward a little bit. So I'm going to ask you both about your experiences. And Rachel, I want to start with you. If you can share with us a little about what your lockdown experience has been like.Kelly Molson:What have you been able to do, what have you not been able to do and how have you spent your time, actually? Because I know that you've been furloughed for some time of that.Rachel Mackay:Yeah. Well I mean, firstly, obviously I was very lucky that I wasn't personally faced by COVID. Genuinely wasn't, so there's that side of things, where you're just lucky and that was your luck time. But also, I got to spend most of it in Scotland and that was great, to have a bit of fresh air and space and stuff like that. So that side of things was all really nice.Rachel Mackay:There was a bit of frustration in and I'm sure this is the case for so many people, the timing of the lockdown was quite cruel, particularly for this sector because it's just when you're about to open up. And we were just about to open an exhibition at Kew Palace, which has been a real labor of love for me. Three years in the planning, all about King George III and his mental health and it's such an important topic and one I'm really passionate about.Rachel Mackay:I've really tried to bring this exhibition into being and we were one week away from doing it and then all of the sudden, all of it just went.Kelly Molson:No.Carlton Gajadhar:Awful.Rachel Mackay:And you start reading because you still had events in your diary and it was like, "Oh, today would have been the press day. Today would have been the opening day." Oh, that was awful. Really, really annoying but I know that lots of people were in that situation as well. And then as you said, I was furloughed quite early on and I did not take that well, I'll be honest with you.Kelly Molson:No. It's interesting because a lot of people that I've spoken to in my agency world, where they've been furloughed, there's been really mixed feelings about it. For some, it felt like a real sense of rejection and that's really hard to take, right? In any circumstance.Rachel Mackay:Yeah. I mean, it's a completely good thing. I just couldn't bear the idea that I wasn't critical to the business and it made total sense because my site is seasonal, which is open this year. So I'm kind of not needed now until next year but it was a real blow to the ego. And I feel awful for my boss, I made just a barking fuss of it and was really winging at him.Rachel Mackay:But yeah, that kind of took a bit of getting used to and a bit of having to get to grips with that idea. Because yeah, it's a real bust to the ego and I am somebody who, I've got a real tied up in work and that's really important to me. To have that taken away, was a real loss for a few days, while I got my head around that idea.Kelly Molson:Yeah and Carlton, while we were stuck in the UK and Scotland, you were locked down somewhere completely different, weren't you? So you were out in Kuwait. Can you tell us a bit about what you were doing out there and what it was like?Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah. No problem. Yeah. So I was stuck in Kuwait during the Corona period. So I was a Head of Guest Experience for a brand new attraction, called Al-Salam Palace Museum. So the museum was set up by the government, to get people to experience how the Palace used to be like, before the invasion of Kuwait in 1990. So the place literally was in ruins after the war.Carlton Gajadhar:And what the palace was used for, before that, was kind of to ... Is kind of like a stately home, I would say, where international guests like the Queen and Diana will come and stay, if they did rural visits to Kuwait. So it's a very high profile location. So my role was to help with all the operations. I have a team of 16 and we lead the VIP element of the organization, all the tours of the museum, as well as all the back office, the call center and that kind of stuff on there.Carlton Gajadhar:So it was very interesting regarding lockdown because the government, I will say, they did a really good job in Kuwait, where they shut everything down straight away. It's like, "Let's shut everything down, and let's see what happens." I think they can afford that as a government because they're kind of depending on oil money. So for them, it was kind of like, "Okay, we can kind of manage all of that."Carlton Gajadhar:But as a museum, it was really tricky because I think, everyone was in this situation worldwide. We had no idea what to do in that scenario, where you had loads of people with tickets contacting our guests, saying, "We're not open at the moment," and then trying to understand what to do with our staff after that as well. So it was a very, very tricky situation for us, while it's amazing.Kelly Molson:Was it similar to what it was like here? Were you allowed out? Could you go to the supermarket, that kind of stuff?Carlton Gajadhar:No. It was very different. It was two types of lockdown, so you had the lockdown, which means that all retail outlets and leisure outlets were all closed. So everything was closed, except the supermarkets and the pharmacies and hospitals, so they were the three things that were opened. And then on top of that, we had the curfew.Kelly Molson:Oh, right.Carlton Gajadhar:So we were only allowed to go out of our homes for a specific time. I think the most challenging one we had, was 22 hours curfew. So 22 hours in our homes and then 2 hours, we were all allowed to leave in 45-degree weather.Kelly Molson:Wow.Carlton Gajadhar:So if you didn't leave, you'll be literally stuck in your house. So I decided, why not start doing a 10k walk in 45-degree weather?Kelly Molson:Of course, it's exactly what would have gone through my mind.Carlton Gajadhar:Of course. It's something to do. It's something to do. So that's kind of what I did during lockdown and kind of just been there for my staff, on WhatsApp, and just making sure that everyone was okay. Unfortunately, at that point, my contract finished. So I was literally stuck in Kuwait because the airport wasn't open.Kelly Molson:Wow. Oh gosh.Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah. It was a challenging period but amazing at the same time.Kelly Molson:Yeah. It's so interesting to hear about everybody's individual experiences and what we've been through. I think even mine, it's horrible to say it out loud sometimes because I know how difficult it has been but actually, there was elements of mine that was really pleasant. It was easy for all of us to pick up our laptops, pick up our computers, and work from home. It's a very lucky position to be in but I quite liked working from home.Kelly Molson:I quite enjoyed that slightly slower pace of life. Not having to rush around quite a lot, was quite nice. But I'm thinking back now, to when it first started to happen and my first thought, when we saw our clients, who are in the attractions world and tourism world, when we saw them starting to close and then we could see the effect that it was going to have long-term, my instant reaction was like, what can we actually do to help?Kelly Molson:What is there, that we have that we can help? And we started, I think I sat down one Saturday and just started to pull together loads of resources that were being put out. People were very generous with their time and with the information that they were kind of putting out there. And so, I started a blog, where I started to collate support and advice for the industry and kind of bring it all together.Kelly Molson:And what I liked about what the two of you did as well and this is how we get around to talking about the sector cooperation is that, it's kind of like what you did as well, in various guises. Rachel, you shared a post on LinkedIn that I saw, that was a toolkit that you put together for frontline managers. And it was slightly kind of later down the process, so a few months after lockdown.Kelly Molson:But it was about how people could bring their front of house team back safely and what was important to them. And I thought this is fantastic, it's such a generous thing to do, to put that kind of information out there. How did that come about? How did you start to do that?Rachel Mackay:Yeah. So well, one of the things that I guess was a bit upset about in terms of furlough was that, as an Operations Manager, you wait your whole life for something like this to happen, so you can really get in there and manage a crisis, you know. And then I couldn't because I was on furlough, so I was just like, "Well, this is a terrible nightmare."Rachel Mackay:And so, one of the things I did, just to try and keep my head in the game was, to go out on Twitter and just ask if anybody needed a hand with their opening plans because that's something I really enjoy doing. Opening places and Carlton's the same, there's a real rush about re-openings and we're openings and we're excited, it's all good. And everybody was doing that.Rachel Mackay:And so, I talked to a few different organizations and helped them just kind of go, run through their re-opening plans and just kind of troubleshoot them and try and suggest things and that sort of thing. And so, that was really good. It kind of kept my head in the game but then, there was a common thread throughout a lot of these conversations. And some of the wider discussions within the sector, about front of house and most of them were furloughed.Rachel Mackay:And so, not really being consulted about what was going to happen, when they came back. And then, from a financial point of view, they were kind of mostly going to be brought back quite soon, before they were then expected to be on the floor, do everything. A complete role from what we've always asked them to do. We've always encouraged people to be very engaging and trying to get away from that idea of, particularly museums at the warder and the policing of the space.Rachel Mackay:And now we were going to have to ask them to do that and that's not what we hired them for and not what we trained them for, so it's a completely different role. And another thing was that a lot of first-time managers, so people who have come into their first supervisor or team leader or management job, a lot of them are quite young. It's maybe their first manager job.Rachel Mackay:And I was just worried that there wasn't going to be that support there for them to think through what they were going to have to do because everybody was so busy and so stretched. And so, what I wanted to do with that was just, was just create something that was not a manual because every site is going to be really different. But just took it, just to help people think through the things that they wanted ...Rachel Mackay:How they can best support front of house. So I asked, there's a lot of front of house people on Twitter and I asked them what they wanted to see when they came back and I thought by my own experience because I've worked front of house as well. And kind of put together something that I thought would be helpful.Kelly Molson:And it's been really well received, hasn't it and you've gone on and added ... You've actually now started a blog and added more and more resource to that as well. So there's obviously been a demand for that kind of information and help.Rachel Mackay:Yeah. Yeah. There was that and then there was other stuff to do with the fact ... So I was doing also my Master's research and crisis management at the same time. So there was resources that came out of that as well. So eventually, I just needed a place to put all this stuff into, allow people to access it, and also, to point other resources that were being helpful at the time because there was lots of other stuff coming out from the sector as well.Rachel Mackay:That's why I started that website, just to have a place really to put all this stuff so that it can be useful.Kelly Molson:It's brilliant. It's one of the heartwarming things that has come out of all of this is, how generous people have been and wanting to help and help others. I'd love to see that continue within the sector. I mean, I can see that that's happening. It's happening in other sectors as well and there's been so much advice that's been out there for agency leaders, that we've been able to draw down on and share with as well.Kelly Molson:Carlton, so prior, this has been set out for quite a number of years but the VE Forum, the Visitor Experience Forum, you were a Co-founder of that forum, right?Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah.Kelly Molson:Can you tell us a little bit about it? Because what I saw, was some really great kind of engagement in that community over lockdown and also, you put out webinars and things to help the sector?Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah. We started in 2016, so there was four of us and we were all heads of departments in various attraction. And I remember, we were just sitting down and we were just talking, "Okay, we're having all these issues and I bet there's people in the same shoes as us, that have the same issues but we just don't have the opportunity to talk about it." So we just decided, let's just do a little small event, a little meetup event in the bar and we did.Carlton Gajadhar:And we slowly found out that there was a massive need for a space for people, just to talk. I call it like the counseling sessions. Especially our meetups because as we're experienced professionals, we're constantly on the go. We just don't stop, so having that space to do and it's been amazing, the warmth and the welcome that we've received from people from all over the sector, it's been amazing. So far, we've got about 700 members.Kelly Molson:Wow.Carlton Gajadhar:..that is linked to the forum, from around about 350 attractions and businesses and then, we have associate members as well, which is about 250, that makes up. And then, alongside that, we have sponsors as well and with the combination of these people, we're literally making the industry better, in problem-solving and sharing information, in a very core and safe environment, where they can do so.Carlton Gajadhar:We mainly aim for management level, so anyone from heads of departments and up, that can come in and share ideas and areas. And we do also organize six different types of events, from meets up, as I mentioned. We do a seminar on an annual basis. The last one we did, we had about 300 people turn up for both our seminar and our awards ceremony, which we're really, really proud about.Carlton Gajadhar:But the main purpose of the forum, is literally sharing information and learning from each other and that is the key of what we do. We are all volunteers as well, so we don't get paid to do any of this. We do this kind of the goodness of our hearts because we're passionate about the sector and we love what we do and we just wanted to make sure that people enjoy their jobs, as well as we do as well.Kelly Molson:It's brilliant and I think it's that kind of field of dreams, type scenario, isn't it? If you build it, they will come. So you've built it and now people are really trying to come in and they really engage with it. Is that quite a new thing for the sector though? Has it always been like this or is that, just in recent years, people have become a bit more open to peer to peer learning and sharing experiences with each other?Carlton Gajadhar:I think there are other organizations that are out there but they're paid and I think that's a massive barrier for people that want to learn, that don't really have high paying jobs or not in really critical roles. So we kind of saw a need of them type of people. And just kind of being there for someone, who just needs an extra helping hand, who's not linked to your organization, it makes such a difference, such a difference.Kelly Molson:Yes and you've put, so some of the things that you've been doing to support the industry during lockdown, you've put out a number of webinars. You had a specialist LinkedIn group, which it was a really great place to go because what was lovely, is that every day, there was updates being posted in there about, the updates, what was happening.Kelly Molson:And so, it was kind of a realtime support for everybody, that was a member of that group and they could see all of the information that you were putting in there.Carlton Gajadhar:Exactly. Exactly. We're here to support people in the industry and anything we can do as a team to do so, we will. We're all about open communication, so if members have any questions about a procurement or how do I organize my Cumin system during COVID? What are you guys doing? Then they have that space on LinkedIn, where they can have the conversations.Carlton Gajadhar:So they don't even have to wait for us as an experienced forum, they can actually take the initiative themselves with the group of people around them, to build that network and build that connection, so everybody can make sure our visitors has the best experience possible.Kelly Molson:Yeah. And Rachel, you're a member of the Visitor Experience, so you kind of see it from the other side. So Carlton's talked a lot about how it's been set up and what they do. Now how have you found it as a member? Have you felt there's been an awful lot of support for you and it's been useful?Rachel Mackay:Yeah. It's a fantastic group. I mean, I think one of the best events I think that they do, are the hacks. They're [inaudible 00:24:44]. So hacks are when somebody has a particular problem, so for example, I held a hack when I worked at the Natural History Museum because I was trying to get rid of the Danish [RQ 00:24:53], which if anybody's ever been to the National History Museum, you'll know it was quite big.Rachel Mackay:And you have a hack, you just say, "I've got this problem." And they sort of sent a bad signal and the Visitor Experience Forum sort of descending with people who are interested in solving that problem and you all sit around a table and kind of hash out. And there was one recently at the London Transport Museum, looking at their entrance, it's just the most fun.Rachel Mackay:And it's so good if you are the person that has the problem because you have people who are interested in that problem, whereas with the operations, usually, you're the only person in your organization who does that. Whereas these are all attractions, these operations absolute geeks and I mean that in the best way possible.Rachel Mackay:And that's brilliant but then, as well just to be a participant in them, it's so refreshing to focus on somebody else's problems for a while. The one at the Transport Museum, I really enjoyed and that's just a really great thing to do. And something I don't think happened in a lot of other sectors as well. But the sector is like that, it's very open and very sharing. And the other side of it as well is the social side.Rachel Mackay:I mean, I love visitor attractions people. They're just the most fun. They've all got really dark awful senses of humor and they just have that kind of personality, where they're just fun people to go and get a drink with. And so, that social side is definitely something that we need to think about, how we're going to try and take that forward with the social restrictions that are in place at the moment. But that's a really important thing.Rachel Mackay:It's not just about the information and the sharing of experiences. That moral support as well.Kelly Molson:Yeah. It's interesting actually because I guess, Carlton, you've got a bit of a challenge on your hand, in terms of how you plan the events. I mean, usually, you'd be running events all throughout the year but I guess now, we're looking at 2021 and what that means and how you run them in the best way. Yes, we've all sat on webinars. They've had varying degrees of success, right, let's face it. They're not all brilliant.Carlton Gajadhar:Information sharing is as good as this one.Kelly Molson:Yeah. But you're very much being talked at a lot of the time and it's less collaborative, in a way. So I guess, that's a challenge for you, in terms of how you run a hack. Can you do this virtually now? How do you make those work? What was lovely is, I saw that there was a quiz night, wasn't there? There was a Visitor Experience Forum quiz night and I know that that went down really well.Kelly Molson:And I guess like you say, Rachel, that's a big part of being part of an organization and a group like this, that it's that social side of things. So it's really lovely to see that that could at least carry on.Rachel Mackay:Yeah. That was a really good night. I was hosting that with another member of the group and we kept on bringing, after a round, we'd just bring somebody up on the screen. So Carlton popped up from Kuwait with his little orange juice and it was so nice to see as well.Rachel Mackay:It was just so nice to see people in their back gardens or wherever they were. We hadn't seen our friends for a really long time and it was so nice to get to and chat, it was a really good evening.Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah.Kelly Molson:Yeah. It's lovely. So what are the plans, Carlton, do you have an idea about what it will look like for 2021 at the moment or is that all still kind of up in the air?Carlton Gajadhar:At the moment, it's still up in the air. So we're still really focused in organizing these events but we just kind of have to wait and see because of the social distancing measures and gatherings as well, that's set by the government, we just have to be very, very mindful and respect what's been said. But we're still keen on organizing our seminars, our award ceremonies, our meetups.Carlton Gajadhar:Some of them, we might just have to continue doing it virtually, which is not ideal but at least we can still have that contact with our members. We also do one-to-ones as well, so people will reach out to myself and other co-founders and try and get advice and stuff. So I did a lot of that when I was in Kuwait, so attraction would just kind of reach out and say, "Hey, we have this issue. Can I get some advice?"Carlton Gajadhar:I'm like, "Yeah, no problem. Happy to help on there." I was going to say, one of my favorite events we do at the forum is a seminar, and Rachel's been great. She's actually spoke at the seminar and how it is, it's like a mini TED Talk.Rachel Mackay:A very generous way of describing that.Carlton Gajadhar:No. No. I mean, it's great. So the mini TED Talk. The speaker has 10 minutes to share their message and I remember, Rachel was sharing her message about her Pagoda opening and kind of-Rachel Mackay:[inaudible 00:29:21] a euphemism.Kelly Molson:It's not that kind of show, Rachel.Carlton Gajadhar:Oh, isn't it? Oh, isn't it? Oh, sorry. I forgot.Rachel Mackay:That was a building actually, that we opened in [inaudible 00:29:32].Kelly Molson:Thank you for clarifying that.Carlton Gajadhar:What I love about the forum is, us given opportunities for our members to do stuff, that they would not normally do as well. So speaking at our conferences and building that confidence and building their personal profile, we've had two of our members actually go to America to actually speak at other Visitor Experience current based on their talk in our conference, which is fantastic.Carlton Gajadhar:So anything we can do to support. I mean, Rachel, I don't know if you remember this guy called James. He was like a young guy from the London Transport Museum?Rachel Mackay:Yes. Okay.Carlton Gajadhar:And he was brilliant because he was like an apprentice at the London Transport Museum and he was talking to us, there's a room of 100 filled people, Visitor Experience professionals and he goes, "If you were like working in this industry, if you like work in it, I would really recommend it."Carlton Gajadhar:And it was so brilliant having him talking about how the industry is for him because sometimes we forget because we're so caught up in our jobs, it's really refreshing. And that's what our seminars are all about, is giving a new perspective or reminding us of how we used to feel back in the day, so we can go back to our team.Rachel Mackay:There's not that many conferences where it's free, it's all folks from Visitor Experience. You've got your front of house people there, you've got front of house people speaking, you've got front of house people winning awards. There's not that many things in the industry, where that would actually happen. So it's just very simple but absolutely fantastic.Kelly Molson:Do you know what was really nice as well is, while you were talking about that Carlton, your face was literally lit up. There was a real kind of ... But it's nice, there was a real kind of sense of, I think pride probably because you've created something that it gives people these opportunities but it's really heartwarming to see.Kelly Molson:What I just want to go back to is, you mentioned about offering people one-to-one advice and just being completely open to help. And that for me, is the one thing that has been so again, heartwarming again to see throughout this crisis, is people just saying, "I'm here. Hit me up, I can help." Rachel, I know that you've been offering pro bono one-to-ones with people as well.Kelly Molson:Is that to share ... You talked a little bit about your MA research into crisis management. Is that to share some of your learnings from that with them, about the situation?Rachel Mackay:Yeah. So the research I was doing, which was meant to be on my exhibition and of course, [inaudible 00:32:19], so I swiftly changed it to crisis management, which felt quite pertinent. But yeah, that research was essentially ... I did 10 interviews with visitor operations people, about their experiences of shutting down.Rachel Mackay:And those transcripts have just ended up being the most fascinating and often, quite emotional at times. It was like, was really a couple of the most challenging weeks in somebody's career usually. There's a lot that's come out of that, in terms of learning and I feel that what a lot of our organizations haven't had the time to do yet, is actually sit down and look at their experience of that initial phase of that crisis management and the shutdown.Rachel Mackay:And have a bit of a wash-up and a bit of a lessons learned, which most people would do in any normal circumstance. Because this is a very odd shape of crisis and it's not over yet. It's kind of rotating into another crisis of a financial recession, people have been so focused on re-opening and staying open, that there just hasn't been the time to do that and it's a really valuable learning opportunity.Rachel Mackay:So what I'm going to be doing with a few organizations over the next few weeks is actually, going through that process with them and doing it for them, so that they can learn some of the lessons that they went through but also, from the research that I've been doing. So that if there is a second wave or there's a war or aliens invade or whatever the next unprecedented thing is, then people really are kind of ready for it.Kelly Molson:I was going to ask you actually about sharing maybe some top tips from your crisis management learnings. I mean, would that actually be one of them, is to go back and do a debrief of what's happened and really sit down and look at what happened in the processes?Rachel Mackay:Absolutely. I mean, it's such a valuable learning opportunity because we so rarely get to practice these muscles in real life. You might do your tabletop or exercises or your fire drills but this was a real-life crisis that happened to every single institution in the country and that's such a valuable learning opportunity.Rachel Mackay:There's a crisis manager scholar, called Patrick Lagadec, who calls crisis an abrupt and brittle audit, which I really love and I've stolen that title for my dissertation because I think that's the most important role that crisis does. It offers that opportunity to just really assess your skills at dealing with crisis and there's two adaptions that pass that really.Kelly Molson:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I kind of want to talk about what comes next for the sector, in terms of how people have been incorporating and sharing their knowledge. I want to ask you both, what do you see next? Like you said Rachel, the crisis isn't ended. We're still in the middle of it, it's just mutating and changing every day.Kelly Molson:Do you think that this is something that's here to say, the level of support that people have been offering? What do you think it will look like and will continue to look like, as we continue to go into 2021?Rachel Mackay:I think you're right. I don't think it's a new thing. I think the sector has always been super open and helpful, in fact, one of the people that I interviewed, made the point that, if you were the head of Marks & Spencer's, you couldn't ring up next and be like, "How much money did you make last week?" You just wouldn't do it. Whereas, there always has been that within the sector.Rachel Mackay:So I think it's not something that people have just done because there's a crisis. It's something that has been ongoing throughout. I mean, it's definitely come out. When in my research, one of the big themes was, how great the sector was, and actually, that's filled a bit of a gap, in terms of maybe the communication from official channels wasn't always the clearest, in terms of this useful government do things.Kelly Molson:Which ended very quickly.Rachel Mackay:Yeah. And actually, even somebody I was interviewing as well, even the fact that they were at 05:00, meant that you couldn't make changes for the next day in your attraction. So things like that. So it really pumped a hole, that needed to be filled in terms of support and information and experience, most of that came from the sector.Rachel Mackay:In fact, in one of the surveys I did, 81% of people said that the most useful thing in terms of resources, was information from their colleagues in the sector, we have both gotten updates. It's something that has always been in the sector but has just come out a lot stronger. I think as we go forward, what I'm worried about is, the slightly more junior levels, so again, your first-line managers.Rachel Mackay:Because in my research, it came out that they didn't necessarily have the same networks as their more senior colleagues. That they felt a little bit more disconnected from the sector. So once we already had all these networks in place and we just kind of turned it up, they didn't necessarily have that. Now I worry, if this is a state that's here to stay that, how are they going to go to those networking events? How are they going to get started and build those networks?Rachel Mackay:I really don't want a whole generation of Visitor Experience managers to lose out on having that wider network because as we've seen it, it is so important. But then again, I think a lot of these things grow organically and people will find a way. When I first started out as a Manager, there wasn't the networks that you get into it or now, even just in museums, there's museum is muck, museum detox from past museums, all these grassroots groups that have grown up and a lot of it does happen online.Rachel Mackay:So maybe that's a way forward but I think it would be a shame if people couldn't meet face-to-face and have these conversations that we all know are really useful.Kelly Molson:Yeah, for sure. But it's about finding the ways that they can continue until we can get back to that point of doing more of the face-to-face things.Kelly Molson:I mean, Carlton, maybe just hearing from what Rachel said, maybe that's something that the Visitor Experience Forum can concentrate on, is that slightly junior level of people that don't have the network. The Visitor Experience Forum could be something that is key to that level of people.Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah. No, you're definitely right. Again, we're here for everybody who needs our support. I mean, we're mainly focused on senior management but there's always a need for the next generation of people in the industry, that need that support. I remember working in the industry way, way, way, long, long time ago, and didn't have any support at all, during my career when I came up.Carlton Gajadhar:So having the forum there in place, it has definitely helped out but also, having the people, members who are attending the forum, to share that information as well is key. Rachel Mackay:Yeah.Carlton Gajadhar:It's no point holding that information in you, sharing that as well is very, very important.Rachel Mackay:And also I think it's the responsibility of senior managers to make sure that those people who are coming up in their team, do have access to that. I mean, I started going to the Visitor Experience Forum all those years ago because a more senior colleague brought me along.Rachel Mackay:So it's a responsibility I think, people have to take seriously. You have to usher them into the world and I hope that they don't get too drunk.Kelly Molson:It's probably more likely to be us getting drunk, isn't it? Let's face it.Rachel Mackay:Yeah.Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah, very true. Very true.Kelly Molson:I've loved speaking to you both. I've got one more question for you both before we end the podcast today and I always like to ask our guests, if there's been a book that's helped shape their career in some way or just a book that they absolutely love, that they'd love to share?Rachel Mackay:Yes, so I've got one. It's very heritage focused but it's called, Anarchist's Escape to Historic House Museums, by Franklin D Vagnone and Deborah Ryan and it really challenges what it means to be a historic host museum and goes against that very stayed guided tour model and looks at, what can it be as a visitor experience and what can it be, in terms of community value?Rachel Mackay:The author, Frank, he also does a project called, One Night Stand, where he goes and sleeps in different historic houses and then does a blog on it. He's American but he came to do one at Kew Palace and obviously, wouldn't let him anywhere near the beds but he is fantastic. But it was amazing and the way he sees historic houses has really shaped how I now deal with my historic properties and he's all about trying to use the house in as a natural way as possible.Rachel Mackay:One of the properties that I manage at Queen Charlotte's Cottage and it's a folly. It was never lived in, it's just a really posh summer house and we used to take people around in a tour. And then I realized that the point of that was so that the royal family could enjoy the gardens. And the minute I realized that it just completely changed how we used that space.Rachel Mackay:And then we put deck chairs, garden games out and it was about the outside of the cottage, not the inside.Kelly Molson:Right.Rachel Mackay:And so, I think that's really helped me to see actually if you can get as close as possible to the original purpose of that building, it just becomes a much more natural visitor experience. So yeah, that book has really shaped my thinking, in terms of that.Kelly Molson:Oh, lovely. All right, that's great. I really love that experience, that you've been through with the folly and understanding what it is that people ... They're not actually coming to look at the folly, it's almost about being inside it and looking out at everything else.Rachel Mackay:Right. It's about the visitor experience.Kelly Molson:Absolutely. Yeah. Who knew? Carlton, what about you, do you have one that you'd like to share?Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah. I think there's one book that I've read and really enjoyed and it's called, Insider In. It's very American style but it really focuses on how to put your customer in the center in everything you do.Carlton Gajadhar:So it talks about the different kinds of frameworks, kind of like customer journey mapping, empathy mapping, and why that is very important. But it also gives you really cool case studies as well in that book. So yeah, outside in, can't remember who it's written by. But for me, that one kind of jumps out at me.Kelly Molson:Brilliant. Great book recommendations. Well as ever, if you would like to win a copy of those books, if you head over to our Twitter account, which is: skip_the_queue, and retweet this episode announcement with, "I want Carlton's and Rachel's books," then you'll be in with a chance of winning them. It's been really brilliant to have you both on today.Kelly Molson:What we're going to do, in the show notes, we'll link out to the Visitor Experience Forum. It's free to join the Visitor Experience Forum, which is incredible and we'll put all of the details on how to do that in the show notes. Rachel, we will link out to your blog. If you can just give us the domain name for that?Rachel Mackay:Yeah. So it's threcoveryroomblog.com and practical resources have just gone out, which is a site shutdown template so that you can plan for another lockdown. And [inaudible 00:42:52] some practical training scenarios, that you can use for crisis management and tabletop exercises. So there's lots of free practical stuff going up there in the next few weeks, as well.Kelly Molson:Brilliant. It is incredibly useful. Please go and check that out. It is a really, really great resource. All the links to it will be in the show notes and that just leaves me to say, a massive thank you for having you both on the podcast today.Rachel Mackay:Thank you for having me.Carlton Gajadhar:Yeah. No, thank you very much for having us. It's been great.Kelly Molson:Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us and remember to follow us on Twitter, for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions, that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.

covid-19 america american university spotify head uk master corona european masters scotland competition md fall in love escape whatsapp brexit vip ted talks skip roses iceland palace membership specialist customer service creek tourism sector eurovision ultimate guide cooperation lisbon kuwait icelandic carlton my god user experience cottages operations managers eurovision song contest one night stands schitt queue mackay crisis management anarchists studied natural history museum queen charlotte madame tussauds king george iii kew experience economy podcastif cumin pagoda guest experience moira rose marks spencer historic royal palaces visitor experience recovery room tourism marketing queen elizabeth olympic park london transport museum european song contest kelly molson historic house museums

What is Moquette?

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2020 1:23

Ever heard of Moquette? No?! Well you've definitely seen it! Let's find out all about it with some help from London Transport Museum. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

london transport museum

Do you know about the London Underground Map?

london underground london transport museum

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2020 1:37

How much do you know about the famous London Underground Map? Let's find out all about it with some help from London Transport Museum. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Do you know what the Roundel is?

london transport museum roundel

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2020 1:23

The Roundel is super famous and very recognisable, I bet you've seen it yourself before! But what is it? Let's find out all about it with some help from London Transport Museum. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Moving

Adam Stoner

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 6, 2020

If you enjoy this podcast, consider buying me a coffee: https://adamstoner.com/support On Thursday, I moved from my childhood home of lots-of-years to a new address in a different county. I don't know whether the move went seamlessly or not because I'm writing this newsletter before it happened and I'm doing that because the address I'm moving to is so far in the middle-of-nowhere that I won't have a stable internet connection for well over a week. You'll find out how the move went next month, unless I have been crushed beneath the weight of my collection of half-worn-out but not-too-worn-to-throw-away-yet jeans. Here's what I've been up to this past month: Activity Quest, the weekly magazine programme packed with stuff for families to do out-and-about, is still my primary focus at work. In the past month, Fun Kids presenters have experienced the Tower of London, London Transport Museum, the Imperial War Museum and Wildwood in Kent. Get it wherever you get your podcasts and hear a sneak peek of the next episode in the podcast version of this newsletter, available here. In terms of other listening, I've become somewhat enamoured with Bandcamp, spending way-too-much-money on it in the past month. On it, cosmetic store Lush is selling the bespoke music they use in their spas, all of which is phenomenal. From their Beatles inspired A Hard Days Night album to covers of lullabies and musical walks through nature, the albums are a testament to the unrelenting creativity of Lush's co-founder, Mark Constantine. I went on a little Lush binge-buying session at the start of the month, mainly trying their fragrances. Karma is a Lush staple with its spice and orange (more summer-leaning than Christmas) and Pansy is a must-buy if the scent of a Lush store, wafting down the high street, is a turn-on for you. It had been almost a year since I last ordered from them and in that time they've reformulated some of my old favourites but their toothpaste and mouthwash tabs (nibble and brush, or nibble and sip water) are still incredible inventions as is The Olive Branch shower gel… I'm thrilled to see Moneybox, the investment app I am an investor of myself, do so well with their first round of crowdfunding, raising over £7 million. The app itself is brilliant, if you've never used it; a real set-and-forget approach to saving. I'm very proud of all the companies I'm an investor of, all of which are more-than-profit, UK-based enterprises. Black Bee Honey, award winning unblended and unpasteurised British Honey from Somerset and London. The Wild Beer Co., also Somerset based, known for its use of alternative fermentations, unorthodox yeasts, seasonally-foraged ingredients and exotic produce. Moneybox, the savings app that rounds-up your purchases and saves the loose change in ISAs you control, including socially-responsible funds. Reach out if you plan to support one and I may be able to set you up with a little extra. I've been trying to think of ways I can appropriately mark this change in my life; not just moving home, but also the world slowly waking back up after the biggest global hibernation in centuries. That said, here are some artists whose work I've been inspired by recently. Whatever I do to highlight this change in my personal life, it's highly likely I'll have drawn on their work too: Liz West, whose work on colour bends buildings and enhances architecture Andy Warhol, whose exhibition in London I desperately want to see before it closes in November and whose technique (screen-printing) I love Samuel Burgess Johnson's work around type Brian Eno's January 07003 album, focused around bells, the sounds they make, and their uses in culture Alright, that's all for now. As I mentioned in the opener, I'm in a place without a stable internet connection for the next week or so. Email me@adamstoner.com to say hi or chat to me about anything in this newsletter and I'll get back to you ASAP.

Bex at the London Transport Museum!

Fun Kids Radio's Interviews

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 19, 2020 6:56

We sent Bex to the London Transport Museum in Acton to check out some trains and buses. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

bex acton london transport museum

The Q-Stock Train

train stock london transport museum

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 17, 2020 1:25

Find out all about the Q-Stock train that now lives in London Transport Museum! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Garden Seat Type Horse Bus

gardens horses seat london transport museum

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 17, 2020 1:28

Find out all about the Garden Seat Type Horse Bus that now lives in London Transport Museum's Acton Depot! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

London Transport Museum, Pick Your Own and chilling on the farm

Activity Quest

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 17, 2020 21:04

Activity Quest is all about getting out and about this summer, whatever the weather! In this episode: Bex visits the London Transport Museum's depot in Acton to find out all about trains, busses and other forms of transport. Sean tells us about a maize maze in Worcestershire, an island retreat owned by the National Trust in Poole and suggests an activity that might help you cool off in hot weather. George suggests something to do at home – why not try making your own travel magazine by cutting up or printing out some photos and making some mock reviews? Anna Louise talks to Amelia from Millets Farm in Oxfordshire all about Pick Your Own (PYO) which is open now, gives us some top fruit picking tips, and talks a little more about the animals. Then we're off to Anna's own farm to answer a question from Ava: how do you keep the animals cool in hot weather? Tell us what you're up to at FunKidsLive.com/ActivityQuest and we might use what you send us in a future episode. Opening times and prices correct as of recording. Check before you travel. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

farm chilling poole oxfordshire national trust acton worcestershire pick your own london transport museum anna louise

Metropolitan Railway’s Milk Van No. 3