Podcasts about legacy partner

WATP Karl takes down Armie Hammer & Stuttering John, SNL's Chloe Fineman v. Elon Musk, too many d**k picks, Liam Payne's revenge porn, Wisconsin man fakes his death, and our new merch store is open. Armie Hammer and Timothée Chalamet were once lovers… in a movie. Basketball coach Todd Golden is a wiener. But hey…Florida won, so the fans support him. D**k pics are all the rage, yet nobody ever sends us boob pictures. Texas QB Quinn Ewers loves nudes and begs for them. Liam Payne would not leave his ex-girlfriend Maya Henry alone. In his defense… she's pretty hot. Elon Musk made SNL cast member Chloe Fineman cry when he hosted in 2021. Sturgill Simpson ROCKED SNL back in the day. We check out Carly Simon and Chevy Chase perform on SNL. We have the latest Legacy Partner's winner! Congrats to ______________! Barstool Sports is destroying Zach Bryan right now. Karl from WATP drops by praise the Detroit Lions, rip apart The Armie HammerTime Podcast, update us on that loser Stuttering John and more. All Drew wanted for his birthday is for YOU to rate the show. Leonardo DiCaprio threw himself a 50th birthday party. Politics: Little Marco Rubio is tapped for Secretary of State. Melania STIFFED Dr. Jill Biden. Joe Biden vs sand. CNN is going through a makeover. Chris Wallace bails to do podcasts. We have merch! Buy your Christmas presents today! Bitcoin is rocking and rolling right now. The State of Michigan has a gambling problem… and it's great. Ryan Borgwardt sure duped everyone by faking his own death. Marni Washington and other FEMA employees were instructing helpers to avoid Donald Trump supporters. Martha Stewart does not want to be touched by Drew Barrymore. The Costco Guys are back with another terrible song and dance. Michael Strahan finally addresses not putting his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. Jared Goff is selling a ring at Jared. The Lions have a pretty easy matchup this week with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Visit our presenting sponsor Hall Financial – Michigan's highest rated mortgage company. If you'd like to help support the show… consider subscribing to our YouTube Channel, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (The Drew Lane Show, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley and BranDon).

Super Bowl bound Detroit Lions win again, Eli Zaret joins us, Shroom Pilot breaks his silence, Drew Crime: Samuel Haskell Jr, Grammy nominations, Escaping Twin Flames, Carol Alt's OnlyFans, and a great police chase from Brazil. We're LIVE on YouTube for the Detroit Lions Instant Overreaction Show. Eli Zaret drops by to discuss the Lions victory over the Los Angeles Chargers, the favorable upcoming schedule, Teebs' hype videos, Jimbo Fisher BLOWN OUT by Texas A&M, Jim Harbaugh suspension, Michigan running over Penn State, intense Sherrone Moore post game interview, OSU over MSU, another Coach Prime loss and more. Tom Mazawey has never heard of Jim Jones. Docs: Escaping Twin Flames on Netflix has a local connection. Have you found your Twin Flame, because it's not a thing. Drew finally caught Till Murder Do Us Part: Soering vs. Haysom. The Garden shows how to prepare for the end of the world with a bunch of unprepared hippies. Drew Crime: The crimes of Hollywood nepobaby Samuel Haskell Jr. 20/20 covers the murder of Dan Markel and the decade of legal battles. 62-year-old Carol Alt is on OnlyFans, but only doing classy nudes. OnlyFans pays more than the UFC. Bhad Bhabie shows her receipts. Britney Watch 2023: SNL took a jab at Britney. Britney is a victim and Lynne Spears is the enemy. Britney has met Taylor Swift and you haven't. Donald Trump shined on SNL. He also slammed Ron DeSantis during another rally. Trump, Kid Rock, Tucker Carlson, Dana White make an entrance at UFC. Bill Burr's wife vs Trump. Douglass Mackey learns the hard way about messing with Hillary Clinton. Joseph Emerson was tripping SO HARD up in the air. We have a new Legacy Partner's winner! Congrats to _________________! Bradley Cooper had another eye rolling inducing interview. He also has to answer for his fake nose in Maestro. Alicia Keys inspired herself. The 2024 Grammy Nominations are out and the women are dominating. Travis Kelce banged Taylor Swift in Argentina. T.O. and Ochocinco discuss an old orgy of the past. A plastic surgeon explains why Zac Efron looks different. Joey Fatone has had a lot of work done. Matthew Perry's haggy ex-girlfriend is popping off and making stuff up. Check out this awesome Brazilian cop motorcycle chase. Gender disparities are affecting men. Jason Benetti is the new Detroit Tigers broadcaster. Matt Shepard has landed a new gig on BTN. Lauryn Hill's fans are lucky to have Lauryn Hill according to Lauryn Hill. We roll through the crappy movies of BranDon's youth. Andrew Schultz thanks his daddy. Visit Our Presenting Sponsor Hall Financial – Michigan's highest rated mortgage company If you'd like to help support the show… please consider subscribing to our YouTube Page, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew and Mike Show, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley and BranDon).

Tiger Woods texts, Gisele breaks her silence, Ed Sheeran's crying doc, CBS loves menopause, Stephen Smith's homicide, Donald Trump Arrest Watch Day 3, and the battle of Disneyland world records. March Madness resumes Thursday as MSU is the only Big Ten team left. Jason Carr Drive's advertisers are sending us food. Paul Gross was today's special celebrity guest. Don't go to strip clubs in Las Vegas without your wife. Look out, Buster Murdaugh... Stephen Smith's death has now been ruled a homicide. No more autopsies for you, low country coroner. Michael Irvin remains canceled until proven innocent. We learn that he has his own podcast. It's Gisele Bundchen's time. She is a victim of FTX and did a big article with Vanity Fair. Tom Mazawey skips the January winner and goes right to Legacy Partner's February winner! Congrats to ___________________!!! A bunch of listeners have been sending us celebrity phone numbers... and they're all fake. STOP SENDING FAKE NUMBERS! We try to contact Nathan Firesheets(shorts) regarding his "record" visiting 12 Disney parks in 12 days. We get Disney World Record holder, Jeff Reitz, to comment on which feat is better. Like Meghan Markle, Ed Sheeran didn't even want to be alive anymore. He cries and cries on his new Disney+ documentary. Taylor Swift is doing insanely long concerts featuring 44 songs. We take a look at the infamous 'Culkin Dong'. There's a YouTube exclusive out there where we discuss the Tekashi69 attack and Chris Brown ruining a relationship. If you decide to watch it, subscribe to the channel to make Drew happy. Lindsay Lohan, Jake Paul and other celebrities are in trouble for yet another crypto exchange scam. Old people need to beware crypto scams. Menopause Madness. Check out Gayle King discuss her downstairs moisture and cobwebs. Tiger Woods' ex is asking for permission to spill anything about Tiger that she possible can. We read through his super-steamy text messages with Joslyn James and Jaimee Grubbs. WEEI's Chris Curtis is in hot water for using a racial slur on the air that nobody knew was a racial slur. Mina Kimes has a sense of humor about it. The Stanford dean of DEI that shouted down an invited Trump judge has been suspended. Norman Keith Varner just wants to be a woman. Stanford students side with pedophile. Some creep in Macomb got 20 years for tricking boys into sending him nudes. Dick Van Dyke is 97-years-old and needs to stop driving. Trump Arrest Watch 2023: Still waiting. Spencer Torkelson is still bad at baseball. Visit Our Presenting Sponsor Hall Financial – Michigan's highest rated mortgage company If you'd like to help support the show… please consider subscribing to our YouTube Page, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew and Mike Show, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels, Jim Bentley and BranDon). Or don't, whatever.

Merry Christmas DMP listeners, Vinnie Dombroski of Sponge dials in, RIP Franco Harris, Samuel L. Jackson's 'Likes' porno, Nepotism Babies, the final Bonerline of 2022, SBF makes bond, and year-end montages. Merry Christmas! Now please buy stuff on our portal and donate to pole barn funds. Sports: RIP Franco Harris. The show still has Detroit Lions fever. Tom Brady is sad he has to spend Christmas alone. Antonio Brown somehow WINS his police standoff. Sarah Krivanek wants the same attention Brittney Griner received. Jeanie Buss and Jay Mohr are engaged. Jeremy Clarkson is the latest celebrity that may lose his job for hating Meghan Markle. Ozzy was spotted at the grocery store looking a little rough. Vinnie Dombroski of Sponge joins the show to promote an upcoming benefit concert December 27th at Cache' Cocktails and Wine Bar. Dave Grohl and his brat cover Janice Ian's At Seventeen. Viewing Pleasure: Drew caught Don't Pick Up the Phone. Jim wants to watch Harry & Meghan. BranDon watched Avatar: The Way of Water. Britney Spears is blotchy and gross. Samuel L. Jackson LOVES porno. Anna Clara Rios only wants you to see her underwear on her social media... not in real life. Add another chick to Pete Davidson's Team Photo. Chris Harrison is making his public return... with a new podcast! Add another chick to Leonardo DiCaprio's Team Photo. Somebody finally calls out all the nepotism around Hollywood. Donald Trump doesn't like paying taxes. The jury is deliberating in the Tory Lanez trial. Enjoy the final unsponsored Bonerline of 2022. Call or text 209-66-Boner. We have a brand-new Legacy Partner's winner. Congrats to ________________! More Sports: Tom Izzo got angry in an ugly sweater. Frank Ragnow is the only Pro Bowler on the Lions. The fattest Packers fan possibly ever was tossed down the stairs. Mat Ishbia's rich-ass is buying the Phoenix Suns. Hunter Dickinson is talking a lot of crap at MSU. The New York Mets have acquired every single free agent in baseball. Mike Morse is going NIL crazy with U of M. Sam Bankman-Fried has made bail, the highest-ever pretrial bond. Some 88-year-old in France stuck a WW1 bomb in his ass. Some 11-year-old dipshit brought a loaded gun to Waterford Middle School. Drew REALLY loves the Detroit Lions this year. Dan Evans ends the year with BranDon's 2022 Fart Montage and a montage of Drew yelling nicknames. Visit Our Presenting Sponsor Hall Financial – Michigan's highest rated mortgage company Social media is dumb, but we're on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew and Mike Show, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels and BranDon).

Will Smith's apology/promotional tour, USA beats Iran, face-eater Austin Harrouff sentenced, Kanye West is a baby, murderer Casey Anthony's revisionist documentary, hot Jim Fouts captions, and the 100 Greatest TV show themes.Again... come out and see us at Killer's Christmas to help the kids.Oxford High remains under fire as two whistleblowers come forward on the one-year anniversary of the shooting.Will Smith breaks his silence on punching Chris Rock and pretends he's the victim.Tom Mazawey drops a new Legacy Partner's winner. Congrats to ______________.Austin Harrouff was pronounced unfit to stand trial and the victim's families are extremely upset. We listen to some jailhouse calls from Austin to his blubbering father.NFL: Jeff Saturday BLEW IT. Deshaun Watson is BACK, baby. Some of his victims will be at the game in Houston on Sunday.Kanye West walked out of another interview. This time on Tim Poole's Timcast. Kim and Kanye have settled their divorce.There were MANY great captions submitted for the new Jim Fouts headshot.An ex-cop from Virginia catfished a teen in California and killed her family before dying in a police shootout.Hockey has a bullying problem.The possible rail strike needs to settled already. Slow down.Laguna Beach is on Netflix and Drew binged it all... for some reason. We also get a Siesta Key update and MTV Cribs is back.Casey Anthony doc on Peacock is available today. Everybody still hates her.The USA defeated Iran in soccer. The Iranian press are a bunch of jerks.Miguel Cabrera is doing a farewell season next year. Hopefully from the bench.The 100 Greatest TV Theme Songs of All Time.Michigan moves up to #2. A lot of people watched Michigan beat OSU.If you love us, use the Amazon portal.Visit Our Presenting Sponsor Hall Financial – Michigan's highest rated mortgage company.Social media is dumb, but we're on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew and Mike Show, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels and BranDon).

Join us this week for a wonderful episode featuring none other than Robert L.D. Cooper. You've seen him on television and read his books and papers. Thanks to our Legacy Partner, WB:. Christian Stebbins and the wonderful Bro. Robert (Bob) Howard. In this interview, we talk about the Scottish Origens of Freemasonry in America, the jurisdictional differences in education approaches, and a whole lot more. Stay tuned! Cracking the Freemasons Code https://amzn.to/3epHWiz Scottish Freemasons in America Event https://gwmemorial.org/blogs/news/scottish-masonic-event The Secret School of Wisdom https://amzn.to/3DeODyH Masonic Con South www.masonicconsouth.com Craftsman+ FB Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/craftsmanplus/ WCY NFT https://wcypodcast.com/nft Get a Tarot Reading by RJ http://www.wcypodcast.com/tarot Masonic Curators https://www.youtube.com/c/MasonicCurators WCY Podcast YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/WhenceCameYou Ancient Modern Initiation: Special Edition http://www.wcypodcast.com/the-Shop The Master's Word- A Short Treatise on the Word, the Light, and the Self - Autographed https://wcypodcast.com/the-shop Get the new book! How to Charter a Lodge https://wcypodcast.com/the-shop Truth Quantum https://truthquantum.com Our Patreon www.patreon.com/wcypodcast Support the show on Paypal https://wcypodcast.com/support-the-show Get some swag! https://wcypodcast.com/the-shop Get the book! http://a.co/5rtYr2r The links listed may or may not be Amazon affiliate links.

‘White Hot' Abercrombie & Fitch doc, Jim Bentley returns to the studio, Andy Dick's Las Vegas misadventures, Mike Bell drops by to talk old school radio, we draw the Legacy & Hall winners and Bhad Bhabie's Bhig Mhansion Phurchase.Jim Bentley is here today!We all know Andy Dick is a mess... but even TMZ has has to write about his latest antics.Julia Roberts and Sean Penn are making the rounds to promote their new boring movie about people that Richard Nixon knew back in the 20's or something.Barack Obama's wife's brother's kids have been BLOWN OUT from private school due to racism and Robin Roberts wants answers! Viola Davis is in trouble for imitating Michelle Obama.Bhad Bhabie is making so much money on OnlyFans that she's buying mansions with cash.The airplane mask mandate is OVER!Abercrombie & Fitch was so cool back in the day that it got it's own documentary.Drew's old radio buddy, Mike Bell, drops by to chat r-r-r-radio. They are hoping to catch Miguel Cabrera's 3,000th hit.Mike explains his connection to the bizarre murders of Alison Parker and Adam Ward as well as the groundbreaking case of Stephen Epperly.Maz hates the snow and announces the newest Legacy Partner's winner!Jim announces the winner of 'Win Drew's Tickets' contest from Hall Financial.Dan Evans has collected every fart Jim Bentley has let out on the Drew and Mike Podcast.Kristen Bell needs a new entry on her Who's Dated Who.Johnny Depp and Amber Heard complain about each other in court.Enjoy some of Bentley's better moments from the past.Social media is dumb, but we're on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter (Drew and Mike Show, Marc Fellhauer, Trudi Daniels and BranDon).

This week, an all-new Masonic Minute with Illustrious Brother Steven L. Harrison--does the vice-presidential oath of office look a little too Masonic? Then we've got a great new interview with Illustrious Brother Frank Conway, the author of The Masonic Pageant--the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction's answer to the Scottish Rite Ritual and Monitor of the Southern Jurisdiction. Or rather, it's the closest we have. This is an exclusive interview set up by our Legacy Partner, Worshipful Brother Chris Stebbins. Stay tuned! Links: The Masonic Pageant http://www.tinyurl.com/MasonicPageant History of NMJ Degrees https://web.archive.org/web/20131102002313/http://www.scottishritenmj.org/Portals/1/images/Pubications/eDegreeRituals.pdf Music - Solomon https://open.spotify.com/album/5cA6zoHYL5COPQW9aVRWZP   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ8JI0MD40I Craftsman+ FB Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/craftsmanplus/ Whither Are We Traveling Pt. 2 http://www.midnightfreemasons.org/2021/12/whither-are-we-traveling-part-two.html WCY NFT https://wcypodcast.com/nft Get a Tarot Reading by RJ http://www.wcypodcast.com/tarot Masonic Curators https://www.youtube.com/c/MasonicCurators WCY Podcast YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/WhenceCameYou Ancient Modern Initiation: Special Edition http://www.wcypodcast.com/the-Shop The Master's Word- A Short Treatise on the Word, the Light, and the Self - Autographed https://wcypodcast.com/the-shop Get the new book! How to Charter a Lodge https://wcypodcast.com/the-shop Truth Quantum https://truthquantum.com Our Patreon www.patreon.com/wcypodcast Support the show on Paypal https://wcypodcast.com/support-the-show Get some swag! https://wcypodcast.com/the-shop Get the book! http://a.co/5rtYr2r Links listed may or may not be Amazon affiliate links.

Are you needing a game plan for discipling your kids? Kennon Vaughan gives some simple ideas for marking milestones in their lives. Show Notes and Resources Learn more about Downline Ministries here DownlineMinistries.org Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=95. Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

What should family discipleship look like? Kennon Vaughan shares a simple routine that anyone can do. Show Notes and Resources Learn more about Downline Ministries here DownlineMinistries.org Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=95. Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

When life threatens to beat you down, don't lose sight of each other. That's the advice of authors Matt and Lisa Jacobson. The Jacobsons reflect on a particularly difficult time in their marriage-the birth of their fifth child, who was born with brain damage after suffering a stroke in utero. The long days in the hospital's ICU, along with starting a new company and caring for four other children at home, put a strain on their marriage. Matt explains what it means to "act like a man," and love and protect your wife and children in difficult times. Show Notes and Resources FaithfulMan.com with Matt Jacobson.  https://faithfulman.com/ Club31Women.com with Lisa Jacobson.  https://club31women.com/ Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=95. Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

What does it mean to love your wife like Christ loves the church? Authors Matt and Lisa Jacobson tell how simple, daily gestures of love and kindness can make a big difference in a marriage. Hear them share practical tips for loving your wife in a way that honors her and the Lord. Show Notes and Resources FaithfulMan.com with Matt Jacobson.  https://faithfulman.com/ Club31Women.com with Lisa Jacobson.  https://club31women.com/ Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=95. Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Triggers in marriage can take many forms -like financial differences, not feeling loved, or intimacy problems -but there's hope! Guy and Amber Lia share valuable insight on communication and the fulfillment we find in Christ. Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/

For those of you who are baseball fans, you won’t want to miss out on hearing from Major League Baseball star Darryl Strawberry. Darryl will be the guest speaker at the 2021 Fellowship of Christian Athletes Iowa Legacy Partner Drive and Tim Schneckloth from FCA shares with you how to get tickets to this free upcoming event in Davenport.  Don’t miss this conversation on sports and faith and how you can join FCA in helping student-athletes know and grow in Christ. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Why do I need a mission statement? Author Holley Gerth says a personal mission statement will help you decide between "good" and "great" pursuits. Show Notes and Resources Find out more from Holley Gerth and get the ebook "15 Minutes to Your Mission Statement: 5 Exercises to Help You Discover Your Personal Strengths and Direction."  https://holleygerth.com/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Screens are everywhere in our world. While it is smart to keep your kids from getting a smartphone too young, they will still need to be trained how to interact with them. Arlene Pellicane presents data and coaches parents to address this critical issue with their kids. Show Notes and Resources Take the Quiz: Too Much Screen Time for Kids? https://arlenepellicane.com/happy-husband-university/quiz-much-screen-time-kids/ Screen Dependency Disorder: The Effects of ‘Screen Time’ Addiction.  https://nhahealth.com/screen-dependency-disorder-the-effects-of-screen-time-addiction/ Dr. Andrew & Julie Doan's website. http://www.andrew-doan.com/ http://www.realbattle.org/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Holidays for newly blended families can be a minefield of hurt feelings if you don't know the terrain. Ron Deal, Director of FamilyLife Blended, talks with Michelle Hill to help families navigate the holidays by managing expectations from the start. Show Notes and Resources FamilyLife Blended Podcast with Ron Deal: https://www.familylife.com/podcast/familylife-blended-podcast/ Blended family resources: https://shop.familylife.com/products.aspx?categoryid=171 Read articles for blended families. https://www.familylife.com/articles/topics/blended-family/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

We often say that building codes are the foundation for resilience, and today's new podcast reinforces that message. This week's Strong Homes, Safe Families! guest is Edward (Ed) M. Laatsch, Director - Safety, Planning, and Building Science Division of the Federal Insurance and Mitigation Administration (FIMA), Risk Management Directorate - Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Ed is a FLASH Founding and Legacy Partner, one of the nation's leading experts on building science, and a true champion for resilience. During this interview, we talk about the who, what, when, and why of the brand new Building Codes Save: A Nationwide Study of Loss Prevention. Federal Alliance for Safe Homes (FLASH) Leslie Chapman-Henderson Email: info@flash.org Toll-free: (877) 221-SAFE (7233)

We often say that building codes are the foundation for resilience, and today's new podcast reinforces that message. This week's Strong Homes, Safe Families! guest is Edward (Ed) M. Laatsch, Director - Safety, Planning, and Building Science Division of the Federal Insurance and Mitigation Administration (FIMA), Risk Management Directorate - Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). Ed is a FLASH Founding and Legacy Partner, one of the nation's leading experts on building science, and a true champion for resilience. During this interview, we talk about the who, what, when, and why of the brand new Building Codes Save: A Nationwide Study of Loss Prevention. Federal Alliance for Safe Homes (FLASH) Leslie Chapman-Henderson Email: info@flash.org Toll-free: (877) 221-SAFE (7233)

In this life you will have trouble, but take heart, I have overcome the world. Jesus gave these words of hope to his disciples before ascending into Heaven. We reflect on His words as we share "storm stories" of other believers, and how they walked through their own storms with hope in Christ alone. Show Notes and Resources More from John and Donna Bishop. https://www.familylife.com/podcast/guest/john-and-donna-bishop/ Depression: A Stubborn Darkness with Ed Welch and Leslie Vernick.  https://www.familylife.com/podcast/series/depression-a-stubborn-darkness/ Kara Tippetts' blog. https://www.mundanefaithfulness.com/ and books including "Just Show Up" https://www.mundanefaithfulness.com/books/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

What do you think God wants us to have for Christmas? One idea found in Scripture is the Fruit of the Spirit. Bob Lepine, Hayley DiMarco (with occasional comments from Michael DiMarco) discuss just what the Fruit of the Spirit is, and how we can acquire it. Show Notes and Resources Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

What does it look like when God compels a couple to adopt a twenty-year-old? When the possibility of a biological child was gone, God opened the eyes of bestselling author and counselor, Holley Gerth, and her husband, Mark, to the world of someone, who needed their love, as much as they longed to give it. Show Notes and Resources Lovelle Gerth-Myers website.  https://lovellegerthmyers.com/ Confessions of an Adoptive Parent.  https://www.familylife.com/podcast/series/confessions-of-an-adoptive-parent/ A Mother of Thousands.  https://www.familylife.com/podcast/series/a-mother-of-thousands/ Walking Through Infertility.  https://www.familylife.com/podcast/series/walking-through-infertility/ Longing for Motherhood.  https://www.familylife.com/podcast/series/longing-for-motherhood/ Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

How do I talk to my family about transgender issues?" J. Alan Branch, Professor of Christian Ethics at Midwestern Seminary and author of "Affirming God's Image," gives direction for families, affected by confusion and brokenness over this issue, in how to lead with truth and grace. Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Transgenderism is a real-world, right now topic in need of God's navigation! J. Alan Branch, Professor of Christian Ethics at Midwestern Seminary, shares about his book, "Affirming God's Image," with the heart of being able to think biblically and act compassionately. Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Be captivated by the mystery and unexpected of this season! David Mathis, author of the book, "The Christmas We Didn't Expect," helps us to marvel at God afresh with practical thoughts and focused enthusiasm, reflecting on the divine pieces of God's rescue plan for all of humanity found in the Christmas story! Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Where is Christ in the busyness of the Christmas season? David Mathis, author and speaker from Desiring God Ministries, shares about his book, "The Christmas We Didn't Expect," giving insight on how to draw from the awe and wonder of the original Christmas story to refocus our hearts. Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

The year 2020 has been a year of forced togetherness-or forced isolation-paired with additional stress. Greg Smalley talks with Michelle Hill, giving suggestions for ways to manage stress in marriage, and how couples can use the stressful times to grow together, rather than apart. Show Notes and Resources Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Learn more about becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Author Douglas Kaine McKelvey shares how we can practice the presence of Christ through the use of liturgical prayers, not just in church, but in our homes. In his book, "Every Moment Holy," McKelvey offers liturgical prayers for all occasions, like going on a trip, stargazing, gardening, or moving into a new home. He tells why practicing the presence of God is always a good idea. Show Notes and Resources Every Moment Holy, Vol. 2: Death, Grief, and Hope pre-order. https://www.everymomentholy.com/hope Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Douglas Kaine McKelvey, author of "Every Moment Holy," talks about his introduction to the Book of Common Prayer and how it changed his thinking about structured prayer. McKelvey explains the meaning of liturgy, and gives an example by reading the liturgy he wrote for the family grieving the loss of a pet. McKelvey explains how reading liturgical pieces like the Lord's prayer can help us think prayerfully and help us process God's truth. He also explains how the Holy Spirit can be just as present in a liturgical prayer as in a spontaneous prayer. Show Notes and Resources Every Moment Holy, Vol. 2: Death, Grief, and Hope pre-order. https://www.everymomentholy.com/hope Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Imagine your life as an open book on YouTube. Harold and Rachel Earls, co-authors of the book, "A Higher Calling," share how God moved them from doing YouTube videos as just a fun hobby to making a difference as missionaries to the world. Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Scaling Mount Everest is both extremely dangerous and boldly adventurous! Harold and Rachel Earls, co-authors of the book, "A Higher Calling," share how they climbed past the fear to fulfill a mission greater than themselves. Show Notes and Resources Find resources from this podcast at https://shop.familylife.com/Products.aspx?categoryid=130. Download FamilyLife's new app! https://www.familylife.com/app/ Check out all that's available on the FamilyLife Podcast Network.  https://www.familylife.com/familylife-podcast-network/ Have the FamilyLife Today® podcast and resources helped you?  Consider becoming a Legacy Partner, a monthly supporter of FamilyLife. https://www.familylife.com/legacy

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 1)The Art of Being a Wife (Part 2) - Building Up Your ManThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 3) - Praising the PositiveThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 4) - Embracing the DifferencesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 5) - Leaning on GodThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 6) - Being His HelperThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 7) - Facing the StormsFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Building up Your Man Guest:                         Barbara Rainey                    From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 1 of 2)Air date:                     May 31, 2018  Bob: See if you can spot where the challenge is here. You're a wife and a mom who wants things to go right. Marriage and family is messy, and your husband isn't perfect. You see how that can be a problem? Here's Barbara Rainey. Barbara: One of the things that is true about us, as women—I had a conversation with my daughter just yesterday on the phone about this—is that it's so easy for us, because of our emotional makeup, to get very overwhelmed by the circumstances of life. A woman, who is married and is discouraged by her relationship with her husband—she can get so overwhelmed to the point where she just doesn't see clearly.  Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, May 31st. Our host is Dennis Rainey; I'm Bob Lepine. What do you do, as a wife, when you get overwhelmed / when you're discouraged by all that's going on? How do you deal with that? We're going to talk about that today with Barbara Rainey. Stay with us.  1:00  And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. We're diving back into a rich field of ore today. I mean, there is some good stuff that we're going to be digging into. Dennis: We have some pretty fair guests on FamilyLife Today from time to time. Bob: We do; yes. Dennis: Max Lucado, Tony Evans, Crawford Loritts, Mary Kassian, Nancy Leigh DeMoss Wolgemuth—a lot of, really, pretty fair country guests. Bob: Pretty good communicators with some pretty good biblical knowledge. Dennis: Yes; this one is a cut above. Bob: Somebody who is— Dennis: —just a cut above. Bob: —kind of your favorite? Dennis: Definitely my favorite—my bride of 43 years. Sweetheart, welcome back. Barbara: I don't know if I can live up to all of that! [Laughter]  2:00 Dennis: That's pretty strong; wasn't it? Barbara: Very strong! Dennis: Well, our listeners love you. We were with some friends, here this past weekend, and ran into a number of listeners. They came up and talked to Barbara about her books and Ever Thine Home®—all the resources she's creating for wives, and moms, and women to be able to display their faith in their homes. It was kind of fun to watch them come out of the woodwork—out of a large gathering of people—come by and say, “Hi,” to Barbara and say, “I appreciate you.” Bob: Well, and a lot of buzz around your new book—it's called Letters to My Daughters. This really didn't start as a book; did it? Barbara: It absolutely didn't. When our oldest son was engaged to be married, his fiancée came to me and said, “You know, I would really love to hear some encouragement from you about being a wife.” And I thought, “Wow!” Bob: She just opened the door; didn't she? Barbara: I know. I thought: “Wow. If she opened the door, then I'm going to gently and cautiously walk through that door.”  3:00 I wasn't sure exactly how to go about doing it, because we all lived in different places. It wasn't possible to take her out for coffee and have a conversation. I decided I would start writing some letters just to share some of the lessons that I had learned over the years in being a wife—just by way of encouragement—and “Here are some things that I learned, and maybe this will help you.”  Bob: Did you write them, one on one, to her; or did you copy everybody else when you started? Barbara: I copied all three married girls: our oldest Ashley, who was already married; and then our son, Samuel, had married the same summer. It went to three married girls. Bob: Then you expanded it out as this snowballed and continued? Barbara: We traded about—I sent—I'll rephrase that—I sent about a dozen emails total. You know, I don't know how much of it was that they didn't know me that well; so there wasn't a lot of response, which I understood.  4:00 I mean, you know, we're talking about subjects about marriage; and this is your mother-in-law. What do you say? Bob: Yes. Barbara: I didn't get much feedback, so they kind of dried up.  Then, when our daughter, Rebecca, got married in 2005, I went and dug them all out and sent them to her sort of as a batch—a couple of them at a time—and then, that really was the end of it after that—an email version. Dennis: I think what's interesting about this is the whole idea came from a couple of sources. One was a book that was famous and very popular, back when Barbara and I were college students, by Charlie Shed.  Bob: Yes? Dennis: It was called Letters to Karen. It wasn't Letters to My Daughter. It was—although—was Karen his daughter? Barbara: Karen was his daughter. Bob: Because I also got Letters to Phillip, which was the follow-up, which he'd written letters to his son—both of them around marriage subjects; right? Dennis: Exactly; exactly. But there was another kind of—I don't know—birthplace of this idea of sending letters that was a part of Barbara's family. 5:00 Barbara: When I was growing up, I remember my mother used to anxiously look for this large legal-size envelope that would come in the mail probably every couple of months. She had married my dad, and they had moved two or three states away from where she grew up. It was a place where she knew no one. Although she developed friends, there were no family members anywhere near. She, and her mother, and some other relatives in the family, and friends had this exchange of letters, that were all handwritten, that went by the postal service. It was called a round robin.  My mother would write her letter, put it in the envelope, and send it on its way, where the next person would read my mother's letter and all of the other letters that were in it. She would take out her original letter, and put in a new letter, and send the packet on its way. It would just make this circle between these six or eight women that were a part of this group, because nobody got on the phone and talked for fun in those days.  6:00 Bob: Right.  Barbara: You only used the phone for emergencies, or business, or important things. You didn't just get on it to chat. Letter writing was the only way that you really kept up with people who lived far away. They had this letter exchange that they passed around.  I just remember, very vividly, that every time that letter came—that packet with all those messages from home / touches with her family and friends that she didn't get to see very often—she would get a cup of coffee and sit down. She relished those letters. She read them and just absorbed all that she could out of those communications from friends that she loved and cared about and missed deeply. That became a way for her to stay in touch with those friends. Dennis: You know, it's interesting, Bob—now, in the present age of social media and having communication so— Bob: —tweets, and texts, and emails. Dennis: —it's so easy.  7:00 You know, we have access to so much that the art of letter writing—I mean, a really good thoughtful letter—in fact, I have back on my desk a letter that was given to me by Steve Green, who is the President and CEO of Hobby Lobby, that he'd obtained that was written by Thomas Jefferson, during his presidency. It's just interesting to have a copy of a letter that's over 200 years old and to think about the words being crafted—how thoughtful it was.  I think there's a need to recapture that—both personal side but also just the thoughtful side / the contemplative side of—“You're facing some issues. Let me step into your life and provide some guidance in a personal way for you.” Bob: Not just shoot from the hip, but give some real thought to the response.  Some of the letters—because you will print a letter in here—we should say this is not an actual letter from one of your daughters.  Barbara: Correct. Bob: People shouldn't read this and try to figure out which daughter was asking this question.  8:00 Barbara: Correct. Bob: You would take a composite of questions that were being asked of you—subjects that your daughters were asking you about. Dennis: —and people who were coming up to Barbara at a Weekend to Remember® marriage getaway.  Bob: Right. Dennis: We have tens of thousands of people who come to those events. When Barbara speaks, women stand in line to talk to her. These questions that are in the book are really questions that these women had asked Barbara from the Weekend to Remember. Bob: I'm looking at one of the letters that you respond to in your book. You're tackling some pretty interesting stuff here. I mean, one of these letters asks this question—it says: “Hey, Mom, sometimes I get tired of being discouraged by all the unexpected things that I have to deal with that come from the way my husband lives life. It's not just that we're different—you already wrote me about that. It's more than that. It's like, I think, ‘If I didn't have him, sometimes life would be easier.'”  Now wait a sec! Do wives really feel that way? [Laughter] I mean, I'm starting to feel a little insecure here!  9:00 Does a wife really feel like sometimes life would be easier— Dennis: Let me just stop you. What if your wife's name is on the book—[Laughter] Bob: You can feel real insecure now! [Laughter] Dennis: —and you're on the radio! Bob: Let me finish this—it says, “It's kind of nice when he's out of town for a few days.” This is a wife, who is saying, “Sometimes, I wonder if I'd be happier, more satisfied, more fulfilled if I didn't have a husband to deal with.” Barbara: Well, I think there are those moments when women do feel that way, because the differences never go away—that's the first chapter in the book. I write in the book that it's the first and most lasting adjustment to marriage, because the differences never go away. Even though I'm used to things that he brings to our world—his personality, the way he approaches life, and his maleness— Bob: His perspective is different. Barbara: —it's very different. I think what this question is saying is that— 10:00 —sometimes, when a husband travels—there feels a little bit of a: “Oh, I can do things the way I want to do things. I don't have to be just thinking about what I would like to do and ‘How's this going to make him feel? How he's going to respond to this?' I can just do what I want to do.”  Bob: You know, I get that; because I think, for husbands—I think there's a similar— Barbara: I would expect so! Bob: —to have a break and just to be able to—times when I'm traveling, I'm focused on whatever I'm doing, traveling-wise, and— Barbara: Or if your wife goes on a women's retreat, you can just kind of veg and eat pizza all day long and not worry about anything; right? Bob: Sometimes, those breaks are nice to have; but you wouldn't want them to go on for very long. Barbara: No; no. Bob: In the midst of them, you do have a sense of something lacking, even if you're enjoying just the pause in the relationship; right? Barbara: Yes; without question because we are complete in one another, and marriage does complete that which is lacking. I mean, God says, “The two shall become one.”  11:00 There is a sense in which you can relax about some things when your husband or your wife is out of town; but there is that realization that life isn't the same without him in it. It makes you miss one another and appreciate those differences / those things that the other person brings that are so very contradictory at times, but it is for good. Bob: When should a wife start to be concerned if she's thinking, “I kind of wish he'd go away for a few days, because I really like it when he's gone.” When can she tell: “This is an okay break,” versus “No; this is us drifting toward isolation in our marriage”? Dennis: —or “This is unhealthy thinking.”  Bob: Yes!  Dennis: I mean, here's what we're talking about—we're talking about the very essence of marriage—goes back to Genesis, where it says it was not good that man be alone. It says, “For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother; shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one.”  12:00 I think we get married because there's something lacking in our lives, and that something is a person—it's the completeness of a husband and a wife, in a marriage relationship, designed by God.  The two are asked to deny themselves, and to defeat isolation and not grow into an unhealthy relationship, where you long for the times when you're going to be separated. You need to keep the relationship alive and not forget why you married the other person in the first place. God brought you together—you need to get on with it, and you need to learn how to embrace the differences. Barbara: It's okay to have a break occasionally; but the goal of marriage is being together, and becoming one, and allowing God to do his redemptive work in our lives. Dennis: Ultimately, what marriage is all about—it's about two imperfect people learning how to love one another within the commitment of marriage.  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: You're going to school, with God teaching you from the Bible.  13:00 I'd have to say—I didn't understand that when I enrolled in this course called marriage; but looking back over four decades of marriage, I'd have to say, “I know more about love because of marriage than any other relationship in my life.” Bob: Some of the wives, who are listening to us, have this conversation / are thinking: “The negatives that you're talking about with my husband—some of these are pretty dark negatives. Some of these are negatives that cast such a shadow over the relationship that it's hard for me just to hold things together. How do I turn that into a positive, or what do I do with those negatives? How do I deal with a husband who—man!—the negatives—they're stark, and they're real, and it's really challenging?” Barbara: Yes. Bob: “I'm not married to Dennis.” [Laughter] You know, a wife, who's listening, is saying: “I'm not married to Dennis, who's a godly, virtuous man, who is pursuing a walk with the Lord.  14:00 “I'm married to a guy who's marginally interested in spiritual things, and who's yelling at the kids, and who's drinking too much. What do I do?” Barbara: Well, that's a very complex question, because there are so many levels and degrees of what constitute negatives and difficult things in a relationship. Let me answer it two ways. One is: “Any wife has to start by looking at herself and saying, ‘Okay; God, am I accepting the man that You put in my life? Am I giving thanks for him in his strengths and his weaknesses? Am I looking to You to do the transforming work?'” because you even said in your question—a woman says: “What can I do? How do I relate to him and help transform him?”  Well, it's not the wife's job. I think we so easily get caught up in thinking that it's our responsibility to fix him / to change him. We do that with our kids. We're always helping our kids. We talked about that on another broadcast— 15:00 —that helping a husband is different than helping your kids—but it starts by her attitude and her perspective, and her belief in God and His sovereignty and His ability to work.  It starts with where she's focusing her eyes—is she looking at all of the negative in his life to such a degree that she's totally forgotten all the good that there is? My first challenge is to her: “Are you open to God being at work? Have you totally given up on Him? Are you giving thanks for your relationship the way it is?”  Then, the other side is: “If it really is, indeed, very, very difficult things that are beyond a woman's responsibility to deal with, you may need to see a counselor—you may need to get a pastor or someone who's wise and skilled to intervene—to help you, to coach you, to guide you. Find an older woman who can be your mentor—help give you perspective.  One of the things that's true about us, as women— 16:00 —I had a conversation with my daughter just yesterday on the phone about this—is that it's so easy for us, because of our emotional makeup, to get very overwhelmed by the circumstances of life. A woman, who is married and is discouraged by her relationship with her husband—she can get so overwhelmed to the point that she just doesn't see clearly.  That's why a mentor is so helpful—someone who can look at it objectively and say: “You know, it's probably not as bad as you think it is. Let me give you one or two things that you can try—one or two practical suggestions that might make a difference for you,” because we do lose perspective and we do—we just get all out of sorts. It's very common for us, as women, to get discouraged with our marriages; because we're just discouraged about life in general. Check your heart. Find someone to help you—find a mentor / find another woman, who can speak objectively into your life and say, “It may not be as bad as you think it is, and here are some things you can try.” 17:00 Dennis: What I'd say to my daughters is—I'd say: “Do you remember when you'd get up in the morning and see your mom reading the Bible? What was that symbolic of? It was that your mom was teachable—that she was trying to meet with God and, ultimately, that her hope was in God.”  The woman, who's listening to us right now, who has lost hope—she's got to have a spiritual thermometer check: “How's your relationship with God?” You've got to be reminded of who He is, how He operates in this imperfect world that we live in, and what He's calling us to do, which is live and walk by faith in the power of the Holy Spirit. Barbara: I just want to say to the moms, who are listening, who've got a houseful of kids—or even maybe one or two kids but it feels like a full house to you—I did not get up every morning and read my Bible. My kids didn't see me doing that every day.  18:00 I just don't want anybody listening to think that I was that woman that got up every morning and read my Bible. There were weeks that I would go by and not read my Bible in the morning. I would talk to God / I would pray; and I would try to catch snippets of the Bible, here and there, in different places; but I was pretty overwhelmed and pretty buried with kids and with life.  Yes; I totally agree with what you just said, Dennis, that it is absolutely crucial that your hope is in God and in no place else. Your hope can't be in your husband, because he will fail—that's a given. Put your hope in God—keep it there—and do all that you can to maintain that.  I just don't want anybody to feel like there's this standard of “I have to get up and read my Bible every morning before my kids are up.” If you can do that, great! I couldn't do that, and I failed miserably many times; but my hope remained in Christ for the most part. Dennis: There was a Proverb that I was thinking about as I was thinking about our listeners today, who are going to hear Barbara on this subject— 19:00 —it is Proverbs, Chapter 4, verse 23. We quote it quite frequently, here, on FamilyLife Today—it says, “Keep your heart with all vigilance for from it flow the springs of life.” You may not be able to get in the Bible every day—I'm glad you said that, just to remove this mythical phantom that exists of the super-spiritual mom—but your heart needs to know who it is that you serve / who is your hope, and you need to cultivate that.  I'm glad you mentioned a mentor, or a friend, or even a counselor if things really go south—or to keep them from going south—someone that you can lean into and spill out your emotions, in safety, and talk about it—not just being negative— 20:00 —but trying to find someone who can coach you out of the ditch that you may be in. That's what church is all about / that's what the community of faith—of Christ followers—ought to be about. We ought to be meeting each other in our ditches and saying: “You know what? It's safe. We're all broken. There is nobody who's got it all together!” But to maybe dig in with a group of women into a book like this, Bob, and decide: “We're going to get real with each other. We're going to get honest, and we're going to make sure our hope is in the right place.” Bob: I was going to say—at one level, that's what this book is all about. It is a mentoring book. It is an older woman mentoring younger women on what it means to be a wife according to God's design. Dennis: I would just like to say here—and I know I'm biased—so the listeners—they already know that / they've already heard me talk about Barbara in the past—I'm biased toward her. This is not a fluffy, feel-good book.  21:00 This is a real-life book that talks about where you are living, as a woman, wife, mom, grandmother.  I think it is life-giving—it's the words of a wise woman that are bringing life to others, because she's reminding people of the truth. People today need to get away from the culture, and the messages of the culture, and the messages of all their buddies on Facebook® or Twitter®, and they need to dig in deep with someone who'll tell them the real truth and nothing but the truth.  Bob: Yes; if it was just you and you alone with this book, I think that'd be great for your soul; but if it could be you and three or four other women—and you go through this book together—I think the interaction you'll have would just add a dimension to your study, where you'd find help you need from friends—life on life going on—a lot of support that can happen in that environment.  22:00 We have copies of Barbara Rainey's book, Letters to My Daughters, here at FamilyLife Today. I'd encourage you to get three or four copies and get a group of ladies together and plan to go through it this summer. We have a downloadable discussion guide that's available—questions you ask each other as you go through this book. Again, find out more when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order from us, online; or you can call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY. The website: FamilyLifeToday.com, or call 1-800-358-6329—that's 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”  Now, today is the last day of May. As a result, today is the last day that we have available to us matching-gift funds from FamilyLife Today listeners. We had some folks, back at the beginning of the month, who said, “During May, we're going to match every donation you receive, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $786,000.” So, anybody who has made a one-time gift during May, that donation has been matched.  23:00 In addition, our new Legacy Partners—and we have a number of them—“Thank you,” to those of you who have become Legacy Partners this month—your donations are being matched, dollar for dollar, for the next 12 months as long as there is money in the matching-gift fund. And today is the last day for you to sign on and take advantage of this Legacy Partner opportunity for your donations to be doubled for the next year.  In addition, when you become a Legacy Partner today, we're going to send you a certificate that you can use for yourself—or you can share with somebody else—for one of our upcoming Weekend to Remember marriage getaways. The certificate is our way of saying, “Thank you for partnering with us and helping us, together, reach more people with practical biblical help and hope for their marriage and for their family.”  You can sign up to become a Legacy Partner, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY.  24:00 Again, the website: FamilyLifeToday.com—or call to become a Legacy Partner or to make a one-time gift: 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”  Now, tomorrow, we want to talk about how damaging a critical spirit can be—whether a wife is speaking critically toward her husband or just reflecting a critical spirit—that can really tear into his soul. We'll talk more about that tomorrow with Barbara Rainey. I hope you can be here for that.  I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife® of Little Rock, Arkansas; A Cru® Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com  

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 1)The Art of Being a Wife (Part 2) - Building Up Your ManThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 3) - Praising the PositiveThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 4) - Embracing the DifferencesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 5) - Leaning on GodThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 6) - Being His HelperThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 7) - Facing the StormsFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Embracing the Differences Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                    From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 1 of 3)Air date:                     February 15, 2016  Bob: Engaged couples often look at one another and think, “We're so much alike!” Then, after they have been married for a little while, they look at each other and think, “Who are you?!” Here's Barbara Rainey. Barbara: What happens when we're engaged—we tend to think: “Oh, we're so much alike. We love each other so much—we'll never have clashes.” I think one of the first difficulties for most young couples is they're caught off guard by these differences. They don't know what to do with them—they go from being cute and attractive to being downright ugly or frustrating. All of a sudden, what was cute isn't so cute anymore; and you think, “Now what do I do?” Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, February 15th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. So what advice would you give to young wives and their husbands about the adjustments we make in marriage? We're going to hear what Barbara Rainey has to say about that today. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I am really enjoying learning lots of new things about you, Barbara. Dennis: You're eavesdropping. Bob: Well, it's legitimate eavesdropping because of what your wife's been writing about. This has been so much fun to read. [Laughter] Dennis: I think I want to welcome her to FamilyLife Today—Sweetheart. Barbara: Maybe we don't; huh? [Laughter] Dennis: This is my bride, and she has plenty of stories to tell. Bob: And she has just recently—by the way, welcome, Barbara—nice to have you here. Barbara: Thank you, Bob. Bob: You've been collecting these stories, not to share with the world your stories, but really to mentor—you've become an e-mentor; haven't you? Barbara: Yes. I'm really writing this for six women / six young women, who happen to be my four daughters and two daughters-in-law—to share with them the lessons that I've learned over all these years of marriage in hopes that it will encourage them, and give them hope, and help them—help them persevere for the long haul. 2:00 Dennis: But it actually started—back to Bob's point about—from an e-mentoring standpoint—really started on the internet— Barbara: It did. That's right; I had forgotten. Dennis: —as you were writing emails to your daughters and daughters-in-law so that you'd be able to coach them / encourage them in the process. Bob: Did you start doing this right after Ashley got married? Barbara: No; actually, it was after our two boys got married. They got married the same summer—the summer of 2001. One of those two girls asked me if I would give her some advice on being a wife. I thought: “Wow! She really wants my advice?” I thought, “If she cracked the door open a little bit, I'm going to just walk right on through while the door's open!” I said, “Sure, I'd love to!”  I began writing a series of letters in the fall of 2001 to my two brand-new daughters-in-law and to my daughter, Ashley, who, by then, had been married four years. Bob: A lot of—a wife will hear you say that and they'll think, ““Boy, if somebody asked me, I wouldn't know where to start or what to say.”  3:00 But it sounds like you were ready to dive right in with wisdom. Barbara: Well, I don't know that I would say it that way, but I was ready to dive in—in the sense that I felt like, “Now was the time,” because all new brides are extremely teachable—they're eager, they want to learn, they want to do it right, they don't want to make mistakes—they really love this guy they just married. They're most teachable and most coachable in those early years. I wanted to begin by sort of exploiting that—in a sense, in a good way—by saying: “Here are some things that I learned / here are some lessons I learned along the way. Here are some stories of what we went through / what I've learned from it. Perhaps, it will be helpful.” Dennis: Over the years, we've—who knows how many hundreds of Weekend to Remember® marriage getaways have been held by FamilyLife—we've looked into the eyes of those in attendance.  4:00 It does seem that the engaged couples and the newly-marrieds are, not only on a steep learning curve, but they're much more teachable and kind of spongy in terms of soaking in the truth. What we wanted to do—and what I encouraged Barbara to do with this book—is take advantage of a window into the soul to speak a lot of relevant truth that she's learned, as a woman from the Scriptures and from other older women who have coached her, and really help these young wives get started on the right trajectory.  Bob: They didn't ask you about a specific subject. They just said, “Help me be a wife.” How did you know, “Okay; I'll start here”? Barbara: Well, what I did is—I just thought back to those early days in our marriage and tried to remember: “What were the lessons that I learned? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?” Bob: Like that early romantic date that Dennis took you on? Barbara: Yes, like that one. Bob: Tell our listeners about—[Laughter] Barbara: You like this; don't you? [Laughter] 5:00 Bob: —how ““Prince Charming” swept you off your feet. [Laughter] Barbara: Yes. While we were dating in the summer of 1972, which was of course in the dark ages—one Saturday / it was probably on a Friday afternoon Dennis asked if I wanted to hang out on Saturday afternoon. I said, “Sure.” He picked me up in his— Bob: Now, let me interrupt you just so we get a context. Barbara: Okay. Bob: You guys had been friends for years— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —since college.  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: Right. Bob: [To Barbara] After college, you went to the east coast and worked with Campus Crusade. Barbara: Correct. Dennis: University of South Carolina. Bob: [To Dennis] Where did you go? Dennis: I was in Dallas/Ft. Worth area, working with high school kids.  Bob: You kept up your friendship—  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —but there was nothing romantic between the two of you. Barbara: No, nothing romantic. We had been really good friends for three years. I really thought of Dennis as a brother—he was just a great, great friend. Dennis: She showed up in Dallas and needed to be shown around—kind of where everything was / kind of how you get around—so I'd pick her up, take her to work. Bob: Now, were you thinking of her like your sister at this point? 6:00 Dennis: Yes, I really was. It was not romantic—it really wasn't—which is really a cheap shot on your part—[Laughter]—to call out this thing that I took her on as a romantic date because we were just hanging out! Barbara: That's right—we were. Bob: Was this before—this date we're about to talk about—was this before or after you had tried to hold hands with her in the parking lot? Dennis: Way before. Barbara: I have no idea. Dennis: Way before. Bob: Really? Barbara: I would think so—yes. Dennis: Oh, yes; oh, yes. Bob: Okay. Barbara: I would guess. Bob: It's just friends: “Hey, do you want to hang out tomorrow?” Dennis: Yes. I'd take her back to her apartment, and we'd kind of sit on the stairs and talk— Barbara: Yes. Bob: Just visit. Dennis: —until about 2:00 in the morning—[Laughter]—just like a couple of friends. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Yes. Barbara: Yes. [Dennis laughing] Bob: Okay. So he says, “Do you want to hang out tomorrow?” and he comes and picks you up. Barbara: He did.  Bob: Did you know where you were going? Barbara: You know, I don't remember—it was too long ago. I don't remember if I knew or not, but I knew it was casual. I knew we were going to go on a picnic. He took me to some remote place outside of Dallas/Ft. Worth— 7:00 Bob: Now wait. I've got to stop you here. You're taking her on a picnic. You're not taking your buddy—“Let's go hang out,”— on a picnic. There's more going on here in your mind [Barbara laughing] than just, “Let's hang out together.” Dennis: She needed to understand where the riverbanks were— Bob: Alright.  Barbara: Like I really care! Bob: We understand one another here; okay. So he picks you up? [Laughter] Barbara: Yes. We take off to parts unknown because I'd never really been in Texas in my life. I didn't know where we were going, but I trusted him. We show up at this stream, or river, or pool of water, or something—I don't know where it was! Dennis: I don't know where it was—it was below a dam somewhere. Barbara: Gosh; I couldn't begin to tell you. Dennis: It was murky / it was fishy-smelling. It was a great date! Barbara: All I know is he pulls out a fishing pole—fishing rod / fishing thing—I didn't know what a fishing thing was! [Laughter] Oh, how funny! Bob: One of the things you observed or learned, when you shared this story with your daughters—it was really to talk about the fact that, in relationships, you've got to make some adjustments and be ready for the fact that you're two very different people. Barbara: Exactly; because after we married, about three months later, we moved to Colorado.  8:00 In Colorado, there was abundant fishing.  Bob: You married three months later—after the fishing date? Barbara: Yes! Dennis: You caught up on that small detail. [Laughter] Bob: I just thought our listeners ought to be aware. [Laughter] It went from zero to sixty. Dennis: I'm a man of action, Bob. Bob: This was a sports car relationship. [Laughter] So, from the day you said, “Will you…” to the day you said, “I do,”— Barbara: —was six weeks. Bob: Six weeks? Barbara: Six weeks. Bob: You said, “I'll be the Fish Queen for as long as we both shall live.” [Laughter] Dennis: Then, on our honeymoon, I took her camping and trout fishing. [Laughter] We need to get to the point of the book though—she's talking about how we, as men and women, are different. Barbara: That's right. Dennis: I mean, we did start out our marriage—really, not polar opposites—because we enjoyed one another. Barbara: Yes, we had a great time; but, had you asked me what I would have pictured for the early years of our marriage, I would not have pictured traipsing around in the mountains—  9:00 —fishing, and camping, and all of those things—because none of that was a part of my background, growing up. They were totally brand-new experiences. I learned, by those experiences, that marrying someone is merging together two vastly different—not just personalities—but life experiences. As Dennis used to say, all the time, “It's like merging two countries.” Bob: Yes. Barbara: Because we are very different, as men and women—we're very different in our life experiences / our outlook—everything is different. So those early years are years of discovery. What you do with what you discover sets the tone and the foundation for your marriage. Bob: Obviously, we're talking to Barbara Rainey, who is joining us today on FamilyLife Today. We're talking about the wisdom that you want to pass on to younger women—specifically to your daughters—about being a wife. You've just written a book called Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. 10:00 What are the big ideas that you want to pass on to your daughters in this area of marital differences? Barbara: First of all—the first big idea is that there are going to be differences. It‘s normal to be diametrically opposite on all kinds of fronts. Because what happens—when we're engaged / and dating but then engaged—we tend to think: “Oh, we're so much alike, and we love each other so much—we'll never have clashes. Yes; if we do, we can handle them. We love each other so much that it's not going to be difficult.”  I think one of the first difficulties for most young couples is they're caught off guard by these differences. They don't know what to do with them—they go from being cute and attractive to being downright ugly or frustrating.  Bob: Yes. Barbara: All of a sudden, what was cute isn't so cute anymore; and you think, “Now, what do I do?” Bob: We have this tendency to think different means wrong. Barbara: Wrong; yes. 11:00 Bob: “This is the way I think; and it's the way I think naturally. So I must be right; and if you think differently, we need to fix you so you think like me.” Barbara: Yes. Bob: That's part of the awakening and adjusting that both wives and husbands have to do in the early stages of a relationship; right? Barbara: Exactly; because that's one of the beautiful things about marriage—is how it broadens our perspective. I write about that in telling these stories about fishing. I knew nothing about fishing; but because of who I married, the horizons of my life have been greatly expanded and broadened. I could have either fought that, and resisted that, and said: “I don't want any part of that! That's foreign to me. I don't like it”; but by embracing who he was, and his differences as a person, my life is much richer because of that.  I think, if we can encourage these young wives—and husbands too / but this is for the wives right now—to welcome those differences as an opportunity to grow as an individual, it will make it easier. Dennis: I like what you wrote in your book here— 12:00 —you said: “These new realities created some minor earthquakes in my life—rumblings that shook my familiar, comfortable foundation. I was discovering that we were not as much alike as I'd originally thought. We were opposites who were attracted to one another but found ourselves, like magnets, that repel each other.” And then she goes on to write about how I would make a decision compared to how she would make one.  Bob: Yes. Dennis: I'd see something that needed to be done or something I felt like we ought to go do—I'd process at the speed of light and off we'd go.  Bob: Right. Dennis: Barbara, on the other hand, processes a little slower. In fact— Barbara: —a lot slower. Dennis: —a lot slower. Barbara: Is that what you were going to say? Bob: A little more thoughtfully—with a little broader perspective. Dennis: I've been enriched by that, but I promise you—if, early in our marriage, we had set up war with one another in two separate bunkers.  13:00 You could easily have built a case between two very different people, who had started out their marriage together, but now really can't get along and don't see one another—as we teach at the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway—as “God's perfect gift for you.” Bob: You describe how you began to approach these differences in your marriage. You call it the “Bookend Principle.” Barbara: Yes. Bob: Explain what that is. Barbara: The Bookend Principle is something that Dennis and I practiced with one another; and then, after the fact, sort of came up with the name for that. What we have done through the years is—when we've had disagreements over our differences or conversations trying to understand one another—we would say to each other: “I love you, and I would marry you all over again. This may be hard, this may be confusing, this may be difficult—it may not be fixed in a single conversation, like we would always like; but that's okay. I love you and I'm committed to you, and I would do it all over again.” 14:00 That statement of reaffirmation of our vows and commitment to one another provides a level of security to continue to have these discussions about our differences. I think it's a good habit. It was a good habit for us because you can get so caught up in how different we are—and how his differences grate on me or make life difficult for me and my differences make life difficult for him—that you can subtly switch to becoming enemies rather than allies. Bob: Were there times, or events, or evenings when you weren't sure you loved him and you weren't sure you'd marry him all over again? Barbara: No. There were times when I didn't feel loving—without question—but I never got to the place where I thought, “This was a big mistake,” because I knew that God had called us to marry each other. I knew that we were doing what we were supposed to do. So, therefore, if this was God's will, and it was, then He would enable us to figure it out with time. Bob: That issue was settled. Barbara: Yes; “Done.” Bob: That wasn't open for reevaluation— Barbara: No. Bob: —reexamination— Barbara: No. Bob: —re-discussion.  15:00 At some point—when you stood and said, “I do,”—the ships were burned. You weren't going to reconsider whether— Barbara: I think that's the mistake too many young couples are making today—is they get into it, and it becomes difficult—instead of saying, “We can work this out,” they say, “Gosh; we must have made a mistake.” They move to, “This is a mistake, and maybe there's a way out,” rather than, “We can find a way through this / we can make it work,” and stick with it for the long haul. Dennis: I look back on our marriage. I don't remember ever entertaining the thought. And I mean by entertaining—I'm talking about cultivating the thought that I'd made a mistake. I do wonder, looking back on it—this Bookend Principle of kind of starting out with a commitment that says, “I love you,” and then maybe, in the midst of an argument or after the argument has been exhausted, you say again: “I'm committed to you. I'd marry you all over again.”  16:00 It creates a safe place for two imperfect, very different people to hammer out their relationship together. I think we're an instant culture that is not used to having to take a lifetime to achieve this thing called “oneness.” What we were doing, back then—we were going through some very hard ground. I mean, it had not been plowed before—two very independent people—who had joined together in marriage, and who did rub one another the wrong way, and who, in their differences, missed each other over, and over, and over again—and, as a result, mis-communicated, disappointed, hurt one another. How do you maintain a relationship in the midst of that if you're not committed?   Bob: I think it's important because we can laugh about fishing dates, and whether you like fishing or not; but a lot of folks, who are listening, are going, “Look, our differences are not around whether you like fishing or not— Barbara: Yes; exactly. 17:00 Bob: “Our differences are around core, fundamental, deeply-held issues in life. The fact that we're miles apart on this—I just don't know how to live with a husband / or a wife who does not embrace what's dear to me at the center of my being.” Barbara: Yes. That is a very difficult place to be. Even though Dennis and I never really had a crisis quite to that depth, we missed each other plenty of times. There are seasons in a marriage when it's very dry and when there doesn't feel like there's much life. I would have to say that: “There is hope. There's always hope, as long as we have breath, that if you are committed and you are teachable—both of you are teachable—and you hang in there, there will be a solution, given time.” I think that we expect too much too quickly. We would like to have it happen quickly—I would like to have it happen more quickly too, but that's just not the way of a marriage.  18:00 A marriage is slow, steady growth over a long length of time.  Dennis: If you go back to Genesis, Chapters 2 and 3, the way God commands a marriage to start is He commanded a man and a woman to leave father and mother. He commanded them to cleave to one another / to be committed to one another. And third, He commanded them to receive one another—to receive the other person as God's gift for you. If you practice those three concepts—leave, cleave, and receive—over, and over, and over again—if you practice that in your marriage / especially, in the early years—it doesn't mean it's ever going to be easy. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: I asked Barbara how she would summarize our marriage. I was kind of hoping for “romantic,” [Laughter] “chill bumps”— Barbara: —“wonderful.” Dennis: You know? But instead, you said? Barbara: “It's been hard.” Dennis: “Hard work.” Barbara: “Hard work”; yes. 19:00 Dennis: Lots of hard work. I think a lot of young couples—and for that matter, older couples—are starting out marriages today not really expecting it to be as challenging and to demand perseverance like it does Bob: I just have to come back around here because you're right in this section of your book that—not only did your marriage start off with fishing—but through the years you've learned to enjoy hunting with your husband? [Laughter] Is that true? Barbara: Well, not by his definition; no. Not by— Dennis: I was waiting for the answer to that question. Bob: I'm going to read to you what you wrote. Barbara: Okay; okay. Read what I wrote. Bob: “And I have learned to appreciate hunting.” Barbara: Yes, “appreciate it.” Bob: Maybe “appreciate” is a better word than— Barbara: “Appreciate” is a better word. Yes Bob: “I actually went with him on an elk hunt a few years ago— Barbara: Yes. I did. Bob: — “with the camo, the face paint, and the human scent killers sprayed on my body.” Barbara: [Laughing] I did! Barbara and Bob: “Aren't you impressed?” [Laughter] Bob: That's what you say right here: “Aren't you impressed?” [Laughter]  20:00  “We hiked and hiked and snuck up on a herd of elk hiding behind trees like clandestine spies following a double agent down a dark alley in Eastern Europe. It was really fun!” Barbara: It was fun! [Laughter] Bob: But the point is that we're going to face these differences in the first years of our marriage.  Barbara: Yes. Bob: Some of them crop up ten years in—fifteen. It's a life-long process of understanding “We're different,” and making those adjustments. Barbara: Exactly. That really is the point that I'm trying to make with these girls—is that the differences are there—they're not to be changed and they're going to be there for life. I think we somehow assume, early on, that a lot of this stuff is going to subside, or change, or moderate; but who we are is who we are.  I'm just amazed at how little really changes over time. You either fight it, and resent it, and resist it, or you join and learn to actually enjoy it and appreciate it.  21:00 Now, do I love to go hunting? No. I enjoyed that because it was active. We were hiking in the mountains, and it was beautiful. Dennis: And it was warm. Barbara: And it was reasonably warm; yes. But the kind of hunting that he is often inviting me to go on—which I have refused—is the kind where you get up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, in the winter, and you go sit. You can't talk / you can hardly breathe, and it's freezing. [Laughter] Hiking in the mountains—we could talk as we went—until we actually saw the elk / then we had to be quiet. It was a much different kind of experience so I could appreciate that one. But sitting in a deer stand—I've done it once and I'm not real interested in going there again. Bob: The point is—you don't have to be interested in going there again to make your marriage work. This is a part of the dance. One of your chapters in your book, “Marriage Is Like Beautiful Dancing”—  22:00 —“Part of the dance is understanding what we do together and where it's better to leave each other some space and some time to do things apart.” Barbara: Yes. Bob: I just think you have given some real great practical wisdom to a lot of wives in what you've written in your book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. It's brand new, and you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request your copy. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and ask for the book, Letters to My Daughters, when you get in touch with us. Now, as both of you guys know, this is our 40th anniversary as a ministry—2016. All year long, we are celebrating anniversaries. Today, we want to congratulate Abigail and Angelo Pinheiro. They live in Princeton, New Jersey. They listen to FamilyLife Today on WFIL. They're celebrating 21 years of marriage today. “Congratulations!” to the Pinheiros—“Happy Anniversary!”  23:00 We'd love to help you celebrate your anniversary this year. In fact, if you will go to FamilyLifeToday.com and leave us your anniversary date, we'll have some suggestions for you this year on how this year's anniversary can be the best anniversary ever. It's all because we are the “Proud Sponsor of Anniversaries.” There are a lot of anniversaries that have happened over the years because of how God has used FamilyLife in people's lives for 40 years now. Thanks to those of you who make FamilyLife possible. We're listener-supported—we depend on your donations in order for this ministry to exist. This month, we're hoping that God might raise up, in every state where FamilyLife Today is heard, 20 new families who would join us as Legacy Partners. We're asking you—if you're a regular FamilyLife Today listener / if God's used this ministry in your life: “Would you be one of the families in your state to help support this program?”  It's easy to do—go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the button that says, “DONATE.”  24:00 There is information there about becoming a Legacy Partner or about how you can make a one-time gift to FamilyLife Today. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also call and say, “I'm interested in becoming a Legacy Partner.” We'll explain the whole process to you when you call 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”  Now, tomorrow, we're going to talk about the spiritual foundation in a marriage and how important that is. Barbara Rainey will be back with us. Hope you can be here as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 1)The Art of Being a Wife (Part 2) - Building Up Your ManThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 3) - Praising the PositiveThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 4) - Embracing the DifferencesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 5) - Leaning on GodThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 6) - Being His HelperThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 7) - Facing the StormsFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Leaning on God Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                                            From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 2 of 3)Air date:                     February 16, 2016                 Bob: Barbara Rainey says there's a lesson that every couple needs to learn really early in their marriage. The lesson is this: “You can't do this on your own.” Barbara: The bottom line is going to be the same for the rest of your life; and that is, when God brings you to a place that you realize you cannot do this thing called marriage, you can't do this thing called mothering, you can't even do the Christian life on your own—that you come to Him and you say: “I give up. I surrender—Your will, not mine.” Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, February 16th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We'll find out today just how important it is to have a spiritual foundation poured in your marriage if you're going to try to build a home on top of it. Stay tuned.  And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I'm curious—did you think, when you and Barbara, in the summer of 1972—I guess September of '72 / late summer; right? Dennis: Right; right. Bob: That's when the two of you stood and faced one another and said your vows. Dennis: It was still summer in Houston. Bob: Did you think, “This is going to be a breeze,” or did you think, “I know there will be some challenges”? Dennis: I just didn't think. [Laughter] Honestly! I was in love. I was committed. I was ready to get on with life with my new bride and my new love. Honestly, I didn't do a lot of cost-counting; but I did make a commitment. Bob: We heard your wife laugh as you said, “I wasn't really thinking.” Barbara, welcome to FamilyLife Today. Barbara: Thank you. Dennis: Were you thinking, Barbara? Barbara: Not much more than you were. Bob: But were you confident? Barbara: Yes, I really was. Bob: Did you start marriage, thinking, “I can do this”? Barbara: Yes; I really did because I had grown up in a good home. My parents were not divorced. I had seen them work out their marriage and—though there were things I wanted to do differently—I felt like I could do this. Added to that, I was doubly confident because I was a Christian and my husband was. We were not just pew-warmers / we were committed Christ followers. I thought: “This is guaranteed to work because we've got the right ingredients: We love each other. We love the Lord. We are going to do this the right way. We're going to follow the instructions in the Bible—A+B=C. It's going to work out great!” Bob: The reason we're exploring this is because you've been spending a lot of time, recently, working on editing a series of letters—actually, emails that grew into letters. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Letters that you've written over the years to your daughters and your daughters-in-law, where you've just offered counsel from your own life and experience about getting married. Barbara: Yes. I started writing this series of letters the summer that both of our sons got married. It wasn't so much that I wanted to teach them—and I was invited to do so by the way—I didn't do this without an invitation. It was that I wanted to encourage them by sharing some of the stories of things that I had learned so that they would know that: “Oh, it's normal to have disagreements. Oh, it's normal for this to happen or that to happen,” so that they would understand the long view of marriage and the big picture of marriage. Dennis: One of the things that had occurred in our marriage that I think really pointed out the importance of perhaps Barbara doing this—early in our marriage, she had kind of run into the differences between us and how that was impacting her. Someone told us—and I don't remember who—but said, “You really ought to go spend some time with an older woman who has experienced more of life and been around the barn a few more times than you have.” Just to spend some time and to know that what you're going through is normal. Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think couples start out their marriage together and they get isolated. They don't realize that what they're going through is what everybody else is dealing with. But if they have someone who is seasoned / who's authentic—and not going to create some kind of pie-in-the-sky approach that's: “A+B=C, and you're going to have all your problems solved by sundown tonight,”—if you've got somebody who's real and helps you understand that it takes a lifetime to work out this thing called marriage. That's what really fueled Barbara in writing our daughters and our daughters-in-law to be able to enter in to these first months and years of their marriage. Bob: Barbara, one of the issues you felt like you needed to mentor your daughters and daughters-in-law in was this issue that we talked about—your confidence that you could be the wife and mom that God called you to be—that, at some point along the way, you kind of woke up and went, “This is harder than I thought it was going to be.” Barbara: Yes. I think that realization was an on-going realization. What I've realized, as I look back over my life, is that, along the way—from those early months of our marriage all the way up until the present—God has been saying to me, over and over again, “You can't do this on your own.” Now, my initial response is, “Oh, yes; I can.” Bob: Yes. Barbara: Because I've got—especially in the early years—a lot of motivation, a lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm—to really do a good job being a wife. Most young women start out that way / most new brides start out that way. We're highly motivated, highly teachable, energetic, ready to go and be the best we can be; but God knows that, if we really are able to produce on our own, then our confidence is in our self and not in Him.  In this section of the book, I tell lots of stories of how God took me places where I realized I could not do it on my own; and I could not garner up enough strength on my own to see the situation through. Bob: The book you're talking about, of course, is called, Letters to My Daughters. It's your brand-new book. The subtitle is The Art of Being a Wife—Barbara Rainey is showing us on FamilyLife Today.  Barbara, you started marriage as a committed follower of Christ. You were involved in ministry, but there were cracks in your spiritual foundation that started to show up under the pressure of marriage— Barbara: Yes; they did. I first felt it most dramatically after our first child was born. We had moved for probably the fourth or fifth time—I can't remember. We'd moved a bunch in those first two-and-a-half years of marriage. I remember one day just feeling really overwhelmed with these jobs I had. I was a wife, and I was a mother—and it was 24/7. Our new little baby didn't come with an instruction manual, and I didn't know what I was doing. We lived in California, and my mother was in Texas. It's not like I could call her every day, or I could go visit her, or she could come over in the afternoon and babysit so I could take a nap. I mean, I was really very, very lonely. I was very isolated, and I was very bewildered as to how to make this thing work: “How do I do this wifing and mothering thing without any instructions?” I really remember feeling a sense of real aloneness in that season of my life. I tell a story in the book—would you like to hear it?—about how I ran away? Bob: You ran away?! Barbara: I ran away. [Laughter] Dennis: It wasn't far—but she did run away. [Laughter] Barbara: No; it wasn't far—No; it wasn't far—but I had this—it really is what it was though. I wouldn't have even said so at the time but, looking back on it, it really is a good expression of what I was feeling. I went—out of just sheer frustration—I wasn't really angry / I was just bewildered. I left Ashley sleeping in the crib or, maybe, she was in the infant seat or something in the living room. I don't even know what Dennis was doing, but all I remember is that I went into the bathroom in our bedroom / our master bathroom and shut and locked the door. It was a teensy little master bathroom—it had a tub, and a toilet, with a little tiny counter with a sink in the middle. I sat on the toilet. Then I got uncomfortable, and I sat on the side of the tub. Then that got uncomfortable, and so I sat on the toilet again. The walls started to kind of close in on me and I thought, “Oh, now what do I do?” I was just absolutely lost because I didn't know how to—I just didn't know how to do this thing. Finally, I came out. Thankfully my husband, in his love for me, did not go: “What an idiot you were! What were you thinking?”—you know, going in the bathroom and locking the door—“What was the point of that?” He didn't belittle me / he didn't make fun of me. He didn't criticize me. He, I'm sure, gave me a hug; and we sat down and talked.  Now, what it was all about—I can't even begin to tell you. What he said to me—I don't remember—but I remember the emotion of the moment—that I was lost. I didn't know how to do this thing called marriage, I didn't know how to do this thing called mothering, and I didn't know where to go for help. That was the first real sort of moment of awakening—when I realized this was all bigger than I could handle, and I needed something outside of myself to make it work. It was God's bringing me to this place of going, “You can't do this on your own.” Dennis: I think, as a husband—truthfully, I think I was clueless that she didn't feel that confidence. Barbara: Well, of course, you were! How could you know? Dennis: This was an internal battle she was fighting. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: So, when she did come out of the bathroom, I don't think I had realized that she had actually locked herself in there— Barbara: No; I'm sure you didn't. Dennis: —and had kind of run away from her responsibilities for a few minutes. I don't think you were in there—probably, an hour— Barbara: No; not more than an hour. Dennis: —but the point is—as a husband, at that point / however imperfectly you may love—but just allow your wife to express the inability and to express her need for something to change / something to be different for her to move forward.  I think marriage is an opportunity for us to finish the process of growing up. In fact, I think it was Erma Bombeck who used to say, “Marriage is the last chance God gives us to grow up.”  Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think it's one of the tools God uses in our lives to take us to the end of ourselves— Barbara: Yes. Dennis: —where He kind of puts an exclamation point at the end of the sentence that says: “You need Me! Signed, God.” Barbara: Exactly; exactly. Bob: But Barbara, you were a Christian—you studied the Scriptures, you were in church, you were— Barbara: Yes! That's what I thought! [Laughter] Bob: So, what was missing? Barbara: I think what was missing was an experiential understanding of my need for Christ. Yes, I knew I needed Christ when I received Him. Yes, I knew—had you asked me, an hour before I went into the bathroom and locked the door, “Do you need Christ?”—I would have said, “Of course!” But it was knowledge more than it was heart experience. God loved me enough that He wanted me to feel my need for Him—for me to experience that I could not do this on my own. I think God loves us enough that He wants to take it from merely head knowledge to heart knowledge. It was the process that God was beginning to work in my life, where He was showing me: “No, you can't do this on your own. Your knowledge of Me is not enough. You need to experience a need for the Holy Spirit to control your life—not just know it in your head that, ‘Yes, that's the way you're supposed to do it,'—but you need to be aware of your need for Me so you will, in fact, depend on Me.” Bob: Okay; so, you're aware of your need. Now, you're going to do something different than you were doing. What's that different thing? How does somebody come out of the bathroom and say: “Okay; I realize I need to rely on God, I need the Holy Spirit to work in my life; but what can I do to make that happen? How do I walk in the power of the Holy Spirit?” Barbara: For me, it was very much an on-going process. It was a growth that happened over decades. But, in that moment, as much as I knew how, in that day of my life, I said: “Father, I want to trust You more. I want to be filled with the Spirit. I want You to control my life. I want You to give me the power and the strength to live the way that You want me to live—to do this thing called marriage that You've designed. This was Your idea in the first place; so therefore, You know how to make a marriage work. I want to depend on You more than I have in the past.”  I believe that I did; but then there came another point, on down the road, where God said: “Okay; now, you need to step it up a notch. You need to trust Me some more,”— I was trusting myself again too much. There was another lesson; and then, a few years later, another one.  I think that, just as our children grow up, incrementally, through the years—they don't go from being a baby to being 18 overnight. Physical growth is a slow process. There are all kinds of little things going on in their bodies, as they grow up, that we can't even see. It does take a long time for an infant to become an adult. I think the journey is similar in our spiritual growth. We start out as spiritual infants. God gently and slowly works in our lives and our circumstances so that we become mature adults, spiritually, and don't remain infants. Bob: One of the areas where you had to learn to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit in your own life was when you decided you wanted to do a make-over project on your husband; right? Barbara: [Laughing] Yes, I did that. Bob: This was Extreme Makeover. Is that what you were—back before it was on TV—you were— Barbara: Yes.  Dennis: It felt that way! [Laughter] Barbara: Yes, it probably did. What is so sad about this story is that I really thought I was doing the right thing! I was a Christian and I thought: “Okay; if there are some problems”—and there were—“if there are some things that I think are not right in our relationship”—and there were those things that I thought weren't right—“What are you supposed to do about it? You're supposed to pray about it; aren't you? Yes, that makes sense.” I made this list—I began to make a list of all the things that I thought were not right—primarily were not right about him / not so much things that weren't right about me—because I really didn't think there were that many things— Bob: That was a small list / little, tiny list. So you're setting off to try to fix—what kinds of things were you trying to fix? Barbara: You know, that's what's sad—I can't even remember what they were—but I'm quite sure it was all personality related because, as Dennis said earlier—he would get an idea, and [snaps fingers] process it that fast, and he'd be off and running. He didn't think things through thoroughly like I did. He was much more spontaneous and spur of the moment. I'm sure it was related to these personality differences that I saw, early on. I made this list, and I thought that the right thing to do was to pray about all the stuff that needed to be changed in his life. Dennis: It was a long list too. Bob: Well—[Laughing] Barbara: It wasn't really that long. [Laughter] Bob: Is there something wrong with a wife identifying: “These are areas that I think God needs to be at work in my husband's life, and I'm going to pray about God doing that work”?  Barbara: Yes; I think it's probably not a real good approach.  Bob: Really?! Barbara: Really; because what happened to me is—I had this list of 10 or 12 things. I prayed about them every day. What happened was—I thought about them all day after I repeated them to God in the morning. I would say: “Okay, God. Here are the things I think You need to work on in his life.” It was as if they were written in neon block letters on his back. Every time I saw him, I saw what was wrong because I was reminding myself, every day——before God, of course—but nonetheless, I was reminding myself every day of what I didn't like and what I thought needed to be fixed. I decided—after doing this for a couple of weeks—I thought: “You know, I don't like the way this feels. This is not really a fun way to approach God.” It's not fun—the results in my marriage—I just didn't like the fact that I was constantly seeing all these things that I didn't like. Bob: [To Dennis] Did you have any idea there was neon on your back? Dennis: I think I did know about the list. Bob: Really? Dennis: I do, and I think I definitely felt it when she threw the list away.  Barbara: That doesn't surprise me— Dennis: Yes. Barbara: —because I felt it when I threw the list away too.  Dennis: I mean, all of a sudden, I've got my friend back instead of my judge. Bob: What prompted you to throw the list away? Barbara: I just began to realize that this wasn't fun. I didn't like focusing on everything that I thought was wrong with him. I thought: “You know, I didn't used to feel this way. I used to like all these things about him, and now I don't.” It wasn't this great revelation—I just thought: “You know—this isn't fun. I don't like the way this makes me feel. I don't like the flavor in our relationship.”  I told God specifically one day—and I remember saying this—I said: “God, if You want to change these things in his life, it is Your business. I am not going to ask You about this anymore because I don't like what this is doing to our relationship. If You never change him, that is fine with me. It's Your business, not mine. I'm going to move forward and not pray about all these things that I think need to be corrected anymore.” I tore up the list, and I literally threw it away. Within days, I wasn't thinking about all that stuff anymore.  Dennis: You know— Barbara: It was a great relief. Dennis: There's a common thread here—to what she's talking about—that I want Barbara to comment because this has been a theme of her life. You're talking about, first of all, coming to the end of yourself, not once, but on multiple occasions, where you realize you couldn't do this thing called “being a wife” / you couldn't do this thing called “being a mom”—and you couldn't change your husband. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: It's not you that's going to do any of this. You came to the conclusion that it had to be Christ in you and you yielded to Him. Barbara: Exactly. Dennis: What would you say to a wife, who's listening, who's going: “Got me!  I'm raising my hands, saying, ‘That's me you're describing'”? What's the hope? What's the solution?—not in terms of a formula—but what does she need to begin to practice? Barbara: I think the bottom line is going to be the same for the rest of your life; that is—when God brings you to a place that you realize you cannot do this thing called marriage, you can't do this thing called mothering, you can't even do the Christian life on your own—that you come to Him and you say: “I give up. I surrender. I need You. Will You empower me? Will you fill me with Your Spirit? Will You lead me?” because it really is coming to a point of giving up because what I was doing, when I was praying for you, is—I was trying to take over.  I was trying to tell God what I thought He needed to do in your life. I realized that I needed to give up. I need to let God do what He wanted to do, in His timetable. I basically—in essence, by saying, “I'm not going to do this anymore,'—I surrendered and I said, “Your will, not mine.” Bob: You know, just about every time I speak at a Weekend to Remember® marriage getaway—first night, I'll say, “If you brought your spouse here, hoping that together we could get her fixed or get him changed, I have bad news for you.” [Laughter] I say, “I'm not even going to be talking to your spouse this weekend. The only person I came here to talk to is you.” I think sometimes— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —rather than focusing on, “God change this other person,”—  Dennis: Yes.  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —our prayers need to be redirected: “Lord, change me.” Barbara: Exactly. Bob: I had to chuckle, Barbara, because, at the end of this “Note to Your Daughters,” as you shared this story—you said, “More stories about my failures to come. [Barbara laughing] Love you, Mom.” Really, this collection of letters that you've written to you daughters are lessons you've learned—  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —some of them through not doing it right. Barbara: Oh, lots of them learned through not doing it right because I think that's when God gets our attention. When we're sailing along, and everything's smooth, that's when we don't think we need God; but when we realize we can't do it, and we're making mistakes, then we go, “Okay; then maybe—maybe I need some help— Bob: Yes. Barbara: —“and God needs to be my help.” Dennis: —“and Jesus is that help.”  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: If the story of Easter is true—and it is / Christ is alive from the dead—then He can make this claim—He said in John 15, “I am the true vine.” Later on, in the same passage, He says, “As a branch cannot bear fruit by itself,”—does that sound familiar? Bob: Yes. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: “You can't do it on your own!”—“As a branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in Me and I in him, he it is who bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.” If you've come to the end of yourself, it's a good thing! Barbara: It is—and that's what God was trying to show me through this story and many, many other circumstances in my life. He was saying: “Apart from Me you can do nothing. Do you get it?” Dennis: And I think life— Barbara: And I said, “Yes!” Dennis: And I think life is one long process of Him saying, “Do you get it yet?” Barbara: Yes, it is. Dennis: “Do you get it now?” [Laughter] Bob: And one long process of surrender because we keep doing it, as you said, over and over again. I think, in addition to the surrender then, there needs to be godly counsel that helps point us in the right direction—to help us correct the patterns that are the patterns of the flesh that are with us and point us to new habits, that are spiritually-informed and spiritually-motivated. Barbara, I think you are helping to provide the wise counsel for a lot of wives in what you've shared today and what you've written in your brand-new book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. We've got the book in our FamilyLifeToday Resource Center. It's brand-new—just now out in stores. We'd love for you to have a copy. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Ask about the book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife by Barbara Rainey when you get in touch with us. We want to say a quick, “Congratulations!” and “Happy Anniversary!” to our friends, David and Diana Aguilar, who live in Union, Missouri. Today is their 29th wedding anniversary. The Aguilars listen to KSIV, out of St. Louis. They've been married since 1987.  We are the “Proud Sponsor of Anniversaries,” here at FamilyLife. We're celebrating our 40th anniversary this year; but honestly, it's not our anniversary that matters—it's all of the anniversaries that have happened because of how God has used FamilyLife in the lives of so many couples over the last 40 years. It's been humbling to be a part of that whole process. If you help support this ministry, as a Legacy Partner or as somebody who gives an occasional donation, you've been a part of the process as well. Your support is what makes FamilyLife Today possible. We could not exist and could not do what we do if it weren't for friends, like you, who help make this happen. This month, we are praying and asking God that He would raise up 20 new families in every state where FamilyLife Today is heard to be new Legacy Partners, joining with us here at FamilyLife. Would you consider being one of those new Legacy Partner families? All you have to do is go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click where it says, “DONATE.” The information about becoming a Legacy Partner is available there. Or call: 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY”; and say, “I'm interested in becoming a Legacy Partner.” Be sure to join us back tomorrow. We're going to continue talking about a wife's responsibility in her marriage. We'll talk tomorrow about what happens when a woman wants to be a helper but it starts to go bad—and it can do that. We'll talk about that tomorrow. Hope you can be here. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 1)The Art of Being a Wife (Part 2) - Building Up Your ManThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 3) - Praising the PositiveThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 4) - Embracing the DifferencesThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 5) - Leaning on GodThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 6) - Being His HelperThe Art of Being a Wife (Part 7) - Facing the StormsFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Being His Helper Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                                                        From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 3 of 3)Air date:                     February 17, 2016                 Bob: The Bible calls women to be helpers to their husbands; but as Barbara Rainey points out—sometimes, when you're trying to help, you're not helping. Barbara: I think, in most women's hearts, we do start out—in the early years, especially—genuinely wanting to help. It switches somewhere, along the line—to becoming a control issue, to becoming a management issue, to becoming a critical issue—where I am being his mother and not his helper. I'm being his parent and not his partner. I think that is the lesson—it's that we, as women / we, as wives, need to be aware and to recognize when it does and to say: “Oh yeah! I need to be his friend. We're peers, we're equals, we're teammates; and we can work this out together,” rather than it—letting it become this great obstacle. Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, February 17th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How can a wife be a helper to her husband?  1:00 We're going to explore that today with Barbara Rainey. Stay tuned.   And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I had somebody share something with me a long time ago. I always thought this was interesting—they were talking about the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our life. They were saying that the word for the Holy Spirit in the Bible is the word, Paraclete. Dennis: Right. Bob: What they said was: “There's a difference between a paraclete and a parasite. A parasite is something that attaches itself to you and just sucks the life out of you.” Dennis: Right. Bob: “A paraclete is something that attaches itself to you and pours life into you.” I mean, that's always stuck with me. I've thought, “That's not only true of our relationship with the Holy Spirit—He does attach Himself to us and pours life into us—but all of our relationships tend to be parasite or paraclete relationships”; don't you think? Dennis: They do. It's interesting—  2:00 —that in the Scripture, God refers to Himself as our Helper. I think the Holy Spirit is our Helper. Bob: Yes. Dennis: He comforts us / He gives us the power to live the Christian life. Bob: Jesus said, “I will send another Helper,”—indicating that He had been the Helper. So Helper really—God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit—are all identified as “Helper.” Dennis: That's right; but if you go all the way back to the beginning of the Bible, the first use of the word, “helper,” is not referring to God but referring to the woman that God made for man. Bob: Yes. Dennis: I know, for Barbara, who joins us again on FamilyLife Today—Barbara, welcome back. Barbara: Thank you. Dennis: She's written a book that is—was first written for our daughters, as they married, and our daughters-in-law as they married our sons. One of the first sections of the book talks about the role of being a helper. You believe that's important; don't you? Barbara: I do. I think that we have come to think of helper in a more negative sense——more as a servant.  3:00 Yet, when you go back to the very beginning—as you were just talking about a minute ago—and realize that God used that term to describe the woman / to describe Eve when He made her. He called her helper before the whole thing broke down and fell apart in the Garden. It wasn't Plan B—it wasn't: “Oh, well; now, that you've made mistakes, and I'm kicking you out of the Garden, and you're going to have to start living in a different place—now, you have to be the helper,”—it was helper from the very beginning.  If we really focus on that, and think about that, it means that I was made, as a female, to be a helper—I was built for that, I was fashioned for that, I was designed for that. It's not a second thought / it's not Plan B—it's not an afterthought. It's intuitive in who I am, as a female, to be helper in the same way that God is helper to us. Bob: You say, in the book—when you got married, you say, “I was eager to begin being my husband's helper; but beyond cooking for him and doing our laundry, I honestly had no idea what the concept / the assignment really meant.”  4:00 Barbara: Yes.  Bob: I think there are a lot of women who, when they hear the term, “helper,”—they think, “What is it if it's not cooking, cleaning, and laundry?” Barbara: Those things are a part of what each individual couple works out—who does the cooking / who does the laundry. All of that is a creative blend of the two that are in the marriage unit. And often— Bob: Who does the cooking at your house? I'm just curious— Barbara: Well, you know, right now, he does! [Laughter] Dennis: But for the past 35 years, she did! [Laughter] Barbara: Yes. Bob: You've given— Dennis: So I've got—I've got a long time—[Laughter] Barbara: I delegated! [Laughter] Dennis: —I've got a long time to catch up in this deal. Barbara: Yes; yes. We have traded places on that one; but the point is—is that, oftentimes and through the centuries, most women have done those tasks in the marriage relationship. That isn't really what helper is all about. Helper is far greater than that—it's me completing my husband.  5:00 It's me—and who I am, and the way God made me, as a woman and as an individual—completing him, making him better than he is on his own or making him more complete / more fulfilled. It's me helping him, though the years, become all God intended for him to be. It's far more of a person-building / it's far more of a relationship-building concept than it is just tasks around the house, which is what we've relegated it to. Bob: The phrase I used—the paraclete—to attach yourself to him and pour life into him. Barbara: Yes. Bob: There really is something that a wife can—she can pour life into her husband; can't she? Barbara: Oh, absolutely. That's why I have written about it in this section—about the example that the Holy Spirit is to us because the Holy Spirit does give us life. I think, in ways that we, as women, don't realize—we give life to our husbands. I think the analogies between the two are great. Bob: You're not saying your role is to be the Holy Spirit to your husband. 6:00 Barbara: No. [Laughter] I am not to be the Holy Spirit, and convict him of sin, any more than he is to be Jesus Christ for me. But we model— Bob: But you can learn; yes. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Yes. Barbara: —he models and imitates what Christ did in His sacrifice—and I can model my helping and being a helper after what the Holy Spirit does for us. Dennis: Before we talk about what it means to truly be the helper, one of the things you believe strongly that it's not—is it's not being your husband's mother. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: Explain what you mean by that. Barbara: I think what happens is—when we women have children and we become, not just wife, but wife and mother—there are a lot of things that we do, as mother, that are helping tasks. We're constantly helping our children get dressed, we're helping learn to tie their shoes, we help them learn to read, we help them with their homework, we help them get dressed, we help them in relationship issues when they've got friends and they've got problems in elementary school, junior high, and high school.  7:00  We are very much a helper with our children, but it's an authoritative kind of helper. I'm the one in charge, and my child is to follow me. What happens so often in marriage is—that we wives forget sometimes to switch from being helper as mother to being helper as wife—and they're very different. I'm not an authority with my husband / I'm not his teacher. For me to help him as if I am his teacher and he is to be my pupil—that's backwards / that's wrong. That's not the kind of relationship that I'm supposed to have with him as a helper. Bob: And you're supposed to be able to switch gears on the fly on that kind of a deal? Barbara: Yes, I think so; but that's where it gets tricky. [Laughter] Bob: So what does it look like if it's not the kind of helper you would be with a kindergartener or a seventh grader? How is it different? Barbara: It's different because I have a peer-relationship with my husband—we are equals. I am not a peer with my child—I'm an authority with my child. That's the fundamental difference.  8:00 For instance, Dennis and I had a conversation not too long ago. I don't know if you'll remember this—but we recently remodeled our living room. We got our couch recovered—because the kids are gone, we got it recovered in a very light color fabric, which I would have never done when we were raising kids. Now, that it's just the two of us—we can handle this. Not long after we had finished the remodeling, we had gotten the couch back from being reupholstered. We were eating, and Dennis wanted to eat in the living room. He plopped down on the couch— Bob: I know where this is going. [Laughter] Barbara: —with his plate. Bob: Yes! [Laughter] Dennis: Never happened at your place; has it Bob? Bob: It wasn't spaghetti; was it? I hope it wasn't spaghetti. Barbara: No, it wasn't spaghetti—I don't know what it was. As we sat there, I'm thinking: “This isn't going to work. This isn't what I had in mind. I don't think this is a really good place to be eating our dinner.” We began—we had a conversation; and I said, “What would you think about always eating over there at the table?” He said, “I really would like to eat and watch TV some.”  9:00 Anyway, the point is that we talked through: “Where would be an acceptable place for him to eat, in the living room, where he could watch TV—watch a football game on Saturday afternoon.” We decided the couch is not where he would eat. He would eat over there in the chair—it's on a part of the carpet that doesn't stain as easily as the part in front of the couch does. Dennis: Actually, what she encouraged me to do is run— Barbara: So are you saying you don't remember it this way? [Laughter] Dennis: —run an extension cord outside and eat it in a lawn chair in front of the TV in the yard. [Laughter] Barbara: Where there is a hose! [Laughter] Bob: You didn't put a bib on him or [Laughter] say, “You sit in this chair.” Dennis: We were just talking about being a mother; were we not? Barbara: That's right; we were! Bob: That's what—so this is an illustration of how you help your husband? [Laughter] Barbara: Well, it's an illustration of how I—yes, how I help him [Laughter] eat like an adult— Dennis: We worked it out. Barbara: We did! Dennis: We worked it out, and it is okay. I do think the point is—if you listen carefully to the illustration Barbara gave, we had a discussion. Barbara: —as peers.  10:00 I wasn't telling you that you couldn't eat on the couch—I said: “Would you be willing to eat over there?” / “Could we work out a compromise?” was the gist of the conversation. Dennis: What I'd want a man to hear in the midst of this is that he has a very important assignment—to respect his wife, and her opinion, and her values, and what she's about at that point—not just do what he wants to do. Philippians 2—we've quoted that many times, here on FamilyLife Today: “…not merely looking out for your own interests but for the interests of others.” Bob: Yes. Dennis: These little confrontations we're talking about here are a clash of values. They don't have to turn out and become where the wife ends up being the mother of the husband. Bob: You tell about, how in your marriage—when you are travelling, back in the days before cell phones— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —you used to mother your husband in the airport? Barbara: Yes. You know what's interesting about this dilemma for women is—I don't think we start out with that kind of an attitude.  11:00 I think we genuinely/sincerely want to help. It just sort of evolves into a more parental attitude without even trying. For instance, in the airport, when we used to travel before cell phones, Dennis would always want to make good use of his time. He'd walk across the area to another gate—wherever there happened to be a pay phone—and he would start making phone calls. I would sit in the waiting area and watch as every last passenger boarded the plane. They were about to close the door, and he was still on the phone. Initially, I remember thinking: “He must not know that they're boarding the plane. He must have not been paying attention.” I would get up and go over, and motion at the gate, and motion at my watch. He'd go, “I know; I know.” He'd get off the phone, and we'd get on the plane. Then the next time I would do the same thing. After a while, I started to become irritated because I thought, “I have to remind him all the time.” Dennis: How many flights have we missed? Barbara: Well, that's the point!  We never missed a flight because you were on the phone! [Laughter]  12:00 But initially, I genuinely thought he didn't know what time it was and that he didn't—he was so engaged in the phone call that he didn't realize they were boarding. I wanted to help so that we didn't miss the flight. Over time, it became more of a parental attitude on my part. Dennis: I was going to say—I was going to say that—parental. Barbara: It really was because I thought: ‘What's the deal? Why can't he get off the phone, and we can board with everybody else?” Then I started becoming critical. So my point is—is that I think what we struggle with, as wives, is not necessarily starting out with a condescending attitude or a parental attitude. We really, genuinely want to help from our hearts; but it just sort of goes downhill sometimes. Dennis: Let me take that, as an illustration though, and just ask this question: “How can a wife, in a situation like that, be a true helper?” The point here is—you're not going to answer that question in the heat of the moment. You do it some other time when you're not travelling.  13:00 The wife just simply says to her husband, “When everybody's boarding, what would you like me to do?” Barbara: Exactly—which is what I finally did. Dennis: “Would you like me to come over and let you know, or am I to just trust you with that?” At that point— Barbara: Yes. Dennis: —it is two peers respecting each other—and the husband feeling like he's being trusted.  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: He may—as I did—he may want her help. Bob: Yes. Dennis: Okay? That's good! You're working as teammates at that point. I think, at critical times like this—we allow these little rough spots like this to become major disagreements—at which we have a big argument and it ends up ruining the trip. Bob: As I read through this part of the book, I have to confess to you that I think one of the challenges that I think a lot of wives / a lot of women struggle with is the issue of control. Barbara: Yes; definitely.  Bob: “I want to be in control of my environment. I feel safer if I'm in control of things.” Barbara: No question; no question.  14:00 Bob: So this impulse to want to be a helper—sometimes is not, “I want to help my husband,”—it's: “I want to manage my husband— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —“and control my husband because I feel more comfortable.” You're waving and saying, “Everybody else is boarding,”—not because you're trying to help him—but because you're getting nervous, and you'd like to get on the plane. Barbara: Yes. Bob: And he needs to hurry up and get on there with you. Barbara: No question. Bob: It's not helping—it's controlling.  Barbara:And that's why I'm saying it's a difficult thing because I think, in most women's hearts, we do start out—in the early years, especially—genuinely wanting to help. It switches somewhere, along the line—to becoming a control issue, to becoming a management issue, to becoming a critical issue—where I am being his mother and not his helper. I'm being his parent and not his partner. I think that is the lesson is that we, as women / we, as wives, need to be aware—that that shift happens—and to recognize when it does and to say: “Oh yeah; I'm being his mother, not his partner.  15:00 “I need to be his friend—we're peers, we're equals, we're teammates—and we can work this out together rather than letting it become this great obstacle. Dennis: So for wives—as they look at the subject of being a helper to their husbands—here's the question I would encourage every wife to ask her husband: “Sweetheart, how can I be a better, customized helper to you?” because I really believe, Bob, if we could somehow zoom back and look at an individual marriage through God's eyes—I believe He's made the husband and the wife for one another. He made them with differences—with unique strengths, and abilities, and weaknesses—so they need each other and so they complement each other. I think many couples can live a lifetime and never ever understand how the wife— specifically: “In what areas / how can she be a customized helper for her husband?”—  16:00 —and then take good notes at what he says. Barbara: Well, and that's what I—one of the points that I really am hoping will come across in this book to my daughters—I want them to see the beauty that God has made in marriage—that the way I help my husband is different than the way Mary Ann helps you, Bob—   Bob: Yes. Barbara: —different than the way my daughters will help their husbands because my husband needs something different than you would need. That's the wonderful thing about marriage. God gave us very few rules for marriage—He gave us some guidelines to run on / some very specific things in Scripture—but He didn't give us a hundred things to do in marriage. He gave us very few. Within that wonderful definition of marriage that we get out of Scripture, there is endless ability to be creative because we are two unique people. God wants us to design a unique relationship between the two of us. 17:00 Bob: Okay; I've got two questions. The first is: “There are some wives who are hearing this and going, ‘Well shouldn't this thing work both ways? I mean, why am I the helper? Shouldn't he be the helper to me too? Aren't we supposed to help one another?'” You're talking about teammates—so you're the helper, but he's the helper too; right?  Barbara: Yes; I think Dennis should answer that, but I think the real bottom line is—is that God has called men to serve. In that serving—of the husband serving the wife—that's how he helps. He's not given the title of helper, but he's given the title of servant-leader. That's how he would help his wife. Dennis: Yes, I think Barbara mentioned the key term there—servant-leader. A husband is given the title, in Ephesians 5, “head,”—he is the authority. The buck does stop with him. He has responsibility to deny himself, to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and to be—as Barbara said—a servant-leader of her and meeting her needs. I don't think a husband—in the sense of what we're talking about a wife being a helper—is to be his wife's helper.  18:00 I think he's to be—the servant, the lover, the leader, the nourisher, the cherisher of her soul, and to look out for her best interest, and her horizons, and maximize her life—but he's got a different assignment— Bob: Yes. Dennis: —with her than she has with him.  Bob: Well, in fact, I was meeting with a group of guys recently. We were talking about this designation of servant-leader. We all kind of agreed that maybe it would be better to refer to husbands as shepherd-leaders than servant-leaders because the servant idea can—can almost make it sound like: “As long as your wife's happy, you're doing what you need to do.” That's the trap I fell in, for years—was to think, ‘As long as Mary Ann's happy— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —“then I'm—I'm being what God wants me to be.” It's not necessarily her momentary happiness that I should be focused on— Dennis: No, it's not. Bob: —it's the shepherding and leading of her—wisely, gently, carefully, feeding, guiding, caring for her. 19:00 Dennis: —protecting. Bob: That's right. So it was a—it was a helpful metaphor— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —to say: “A man should be a shepherd-leader and a wife should respond and should help in that process.” My other question, though, for you is for the wife who would say: “If I went to my husband and said, ‘How would you like me to be your customized helper?' he would say, ‘Get off my back and leave me alone! Just let me do what I want to do.'” Dennis: But that's not a good answer. Bob: So does she tell him that?! Barbara: Well, I think she frames the question a little differently. I think she says, in a particular situation—like, when Dennis and I were travelling, I could have said to him, “Is there anything I can do to help you so that we can get on our flight on time?” rather than some generic question that he might not be able to put words to. It'd be much better if she said, “How can I help you when we are…” or “…when this situation happens?” or “How can I encourage you when you've had a bad day at work?” If she will be specific, then she might get a more specific answer that would be easier for her to perhaps know what to do with. 20:00      Bob: But if he says, “Just leave me alone,” how does she respond to that? Barbara: I think she needs to say: “What do you mean by leave you alone? What do you want me to back off on?” I think—if she really, genuinely wants to be a better helper—then she needs to ask some follow-up questions / find out: “What does he mean by that?” Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think, over a lifetime together, this is a great question to interact about. In fact, we'd been married for 38 years before the thought ever occurred to me. I was talking to Barbara about her book—just to explore a little bit: “What have we learned in our marriage about how you are a great helper to me?” One of the areas she is—is she's a wise counsellor.  Bob: Yes. Dennis: She gives me the perspective that I most count on for my life, from a human perspective. Now, I go to the Bible for my guidance and to guide in prayer; but she's my closest friend—knows me well, looking out for my best interest in multiple ways.  21:00 I go to her for her advice, her counsel, and her perspective. She is a great— Bob: Yes. Dennis: —helper in that area. I think, for a man, if he can just pull back and ask—if you've been married 10 years: “How is your wife a great helper to you? How do you see her having been designed by God to help you?” Another way for Barbara is—and I told her this—she brings great beauty to my life. She's an artist—she likes design / she notices things years before I do. [Laughter] Then she points them out and I enjoy them. Because of her in my life—not only is she beautiful—but she brings beauty to my life and an appreciation for the aesthetics that God has created. Bob: She keeps the sofa looking beautiful, too, by assigning you a place to sit. [Laughter] Barbara: Now Bob, I didn't assign now— Dennis: —in the yard!  Barbara: —we agreed! 22:00 Dennis: —in the garage, with the hose! [Laughter] Bob: The thing is—this is a part of the reality of marriage that you guys have, after more than 40 years of being together—you've figured out how to make all of this work. Barbara—now for you to be speaking into the lives of younger women / younger wives—I'm really excited about the book that is now available: Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife by Barbara Rainey. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com in order to request a copy of the book, or you can call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title is Letters to My Daughters by Barbara Rainey. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call us at 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” By the way, I should have you give the shout-out today to some friends of ours, Keith and Mary Kirkland, celebrating their 15th wedding anniversary today.  23:00 They live in Montgomery, Alabama—listen to WLBF. Mary is a big fan of the resources you've created for homes in the Ever Thine Home collection. They've got the Easter banner, they've got Adorenaments, they've got your “Behold the Lamb” resource—I mean, she's got a bunch of stuff in her home, and they're friends of this ministry. They've helped support the work that FamilyLife Today is doing. If it weren't for friends, like the Kirklands, FamilyLife Today couldn't do all that we do. We're listener-supported, and your donations make this ministry possible.  During this month, we are hoping that God would raise up, from among our listeners, 20 new families in every state—who would be brand-new Legacy Partners—monthly donors, supporting the ministry of FamilyLife Today. We'd like to ask you to consider being one of the families in your state helping to keep FamilyLife Today on the air in this community.  24:00 You can become a Legacy Partner by going to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, “DONATE,”—the information's available there—or call 1-800- FL-TODAY and say, “I want to become a Legacy Partner.” We hope to hear from you. We hope you can join us back tomorrow when we're going to talk about what's at the heart of being a godly woman. Priscilla Shirer is going to join us, and we'll talk about a godly woman's priorities tomorrow. Hope you can be here for that.  I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow. Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesReclaiming Easter (Part 1) - The Miracle of EasterReclaiming Easter (Part 2) - Regaining the High GroundReclaiming Easter (Part 3) - It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like...EasterFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like…Easter Guest:                         Barbara Rainey                    From the series:       Reclaiming Easter (Day 4 of 4)Air date:                     March 19, 2015  Bob: In Matthew's Gospel, we read that, when Jesus cried out with a loud voice and yielded up His Spirit, at that moment, the curtain of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. Here's Barbara Rainey.   Barbara: It's one of those little pieces in the story of Easter that, every time I read it, I get chills because it says, at the moment that Jesus died, the curtain in the Temple was torn, from top to bottom. Now, think about a curtain that is four to six inches thick and sixty to ninety inches tall—and all of a sudden, there is this thunderous sound; and the curtain is being torn in two—and it was the moment that Christ breathed His last.  Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, March 19th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  There are a lot of little details in the story of Jesus's death, and burial, and resurrection; and all of them are important.  1:00 We'll talk more today about how we can dig deeper into the biblical account of the greatest moment in all of human history. Stay tuned.  And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. Just found myself, this week, kind of thinking [Singing], “It's beginning to look a lot like Easter.”  I guess—haven't you wanted to sing a few Easter carols? [Laughter]  Barbara: Why don't you write us a song that would kind of capture that?   Bob: We have some songs— Dennis: You've written all kinds of songs—Legacy Partner songs.  Bob: I have written those, but I think— Dennis: Yes, by the way, I just want to give a shout out to Legacy Partners. Thanks for standing with us. This is an important ministry to you and your family, but it's also an important ministry to our nation. I think our nation needs all the help it can get when it comes to marriages and families.  Bob: We are focused this week on the coming celebration of Easter. It's just right around the corner—trying to help families get in the Easter mood and not just wait until the week before and go:  2:00 “Oh, yes, Easter is coming up. I guess we should do something about it,” but be in the mindset here, weeks in front of the holiday.  Barbara: Well, we're very intentional about Christmas. We spend lots of time making our lists and just countless things that we do to be intentional at Christmas. I think we need to capture some of that intentionality and use it toward Easter. My hope is that we can help you and your family find some ways to be intentional this year so that Easter for you and your family, this year, is much more meaningful than it ever has been in the past.  Dennis: Millions of our listeners know that's the voice of my wife, Barbara. There are probably two that didn't recognize it.  Bob: Two people who are going, “Who's she?”  [Laughter]   Dennis: But she's back, again, today on FamilyLife Today. Welcome back, Sweetheart.  Barbara: Thank you.  Dennis: Earlier, Bob kind of came into the studio and he remarked about what you see on the table. It really is the result of close to three years of work that you've been at— 3:00 —trying to bring great teachings of the Scripture to people's homes, around the major Christian holidays that we celebrate—to help families prepare both their home and their hearts for the reason for the season.  Barbara: I know there is so much more to the Easter story—in fact, to all of the stories in the Bible—than we know and appreciate. One of the things that I am hoping to do is to help families understand more of the story. I think, because we're so familiar with it, we think it's kind of old hat, or it's boring, or “Oh, I know this story.”  And yet, there is so much more to it than we know. I think it helps elevate our celebration when we know more about what happened on the cross and all of the events that surrounded the first Easter.  Bob: Over the years, you've designed decorative elements that can be used in the home, whether it's a banner you can put on your front door that says, “I am the Resurrection and the Life,” a chain garland that can hold cards that talk about the “I Am” statements from John: “I am the Door,” “I am the Good Shepherd,”  4:00 “I am the Bread of Life,” “I am the Light of the World.”   This year, one of the new things you've developed is what you are referring to as conversation cards. Explain what these are.  Barbara: Well, I think that all of us—women especially—when we go to the trouble to set a really nice table, we're hoping that we can have a meaningful meal. We go to that trouble because we are hoping that we can capture something that will be memorable—something that will kind of hang with us. That's why we do traditions. That's why we repeat recipes and all of that. It's a way of binding us together, as a family, and it knits our hearts together.  One of the things that I wanted to do was help families, help couples, help moms and dads initiate meaningful conversation around your Easter brunch, or your Easter lunch, or Easter dinner because—we can set a beautiful table but, then, if we sit and talk about sports, or we talk about homework, or we—the kids break into a fight, we lost it.  5:00 We lost that element that we were trying to create.  So, sometimes, we all need prompts / we need reminders. We need some kind of a little nudge to help us have a meaningful conversation or to help us talk about things that really matter because we want to—we just don't know how to get there.  Bob: A few years ago, you created napkin ties that had a question on them— Barbara: Yes.  Bob: —that folks can—you called it Untie Your Story.  Barbara: Right.  Bob: So, you would take one of these napkin ties and untie the silverware.  Dennis: I've got one here.  Bob: I've got one too.  Dennis: Mine says: “Being grateful is not always easy. What makes it so difficult at times?”   Bob: Mine says, “Describe one of your favorite teachers, as a child, and what made him or her remarkable.”  The idea is just: “Here is a question that takes the conversation beyond the mundane— Barbara: Right.  Bob: —into something that's a little more meaningful.”   Barbara: Exactly.  Bob: But now, the conversation cards take it even a step farther; right? 6:00 Barbara: That's right because the conversation cards—there are eight of them that come in a package, and there are two ways you can do them. I designed them so that you would put one on each plate. You may have more than eight people so you can share—however you want to do it—but the idea is to read these around the table and talk about some of these lesser-known stories about the first Easter to help us spark conversation.  But they are also designed to help us worship more for what Christ did for us on the cross because, again, I think we can become complacent and we can become dull to the story. So, when you hear more about what really happened, it opens your eyes and there is more of a sense of wonder and awe.  Bob: Each of these cards is, basically, a 60-second devotional.  Barbara: Very quick.  Bob: You can read what's on the card, and then, there may be a discussion question or something that you can follow up on it with. But, again, it's the idea to have something spiritually significant— 7:00 —that's a part of your Easter meal.  Barbara: Exactly.  Dennis: This is where I think a lot of us fail. In fact, we don't know how to bridge from good food and from talk of the weather and the latest thing that's happened with your sports team that's going well or not going so well. We don't know how to get to the real message of Easter. What Barbara has done—you used the word, “prompt.”  It's really a prompt—it will engage each person as they read it.  Like this first one is “Light of the World.”  And I'll just read it here—this is how it happened.  While Jesus lived on earth, a grand and glorious Temple stood in the center of Jerusalem as the heart of the Jewish city life. Within the Court of Women, stood four sumptuously-gilded candelabra, over 70 feet in height.  In the evenings, during feast times, a lamp-lighting ceremony reminded the people that God, Himself, created light and separated it from darkness, just as His presence did for them.  8:00 Illuminating even the neighborhood courtyards around the Temple, the lamps were also burning reminders of God's guidance of His people by a nightly pillar of fire ensuring protection from enemies and lighting their path.  Twice Jesus declared Himself to be the Light of the World—once in the temple to a curious audience of disciples and Pharisees and, a short time later, on the south steps of the Temple, just before miraculously giving the light of sight to a man born blind. Both announcements were signs of His deity. His bold revelation, “I am the Light of the World,” alluded to, again, in Isaiah's prophecy about Him: “The people who walk in darkness will see a great light.”   9:00 During every Passover mal, the honor of a candle-lighting belongs to the mother of the house, honoring all women, for it was through Mary that God chose to give us the light of the nations—Isaiah 49:6.  And at the bottom of the card, Barbara has: “If you are reading these stories at your Resurrection Day meal, the women or the mother of the family can light the candles now.”  That'd be a great moment in a family to honor women for having given birth to our Savior, and at the same time, honor your mom in the process.  Barbara: A part of what I like about these stories is that it ties what we know about the resurrection, and the cross, and Good Friday, and all of those things that we celebrate at Easter—but these cards tie all of those events back to the Jewish traditions and the Jewish feasts that Jesus, Himself, celebrated when He was on earth because there are links, there are parallels, and there are connections— 10:00 —between what God instituted for the nation of Israel, that they actually went through / that Jesus actually participated in—and what we celebrate today.  Bob: And I think it's helpful for folks to realize that Jesus didn't just stand up and, in no context, say, “I'm the Light of the World,” where everybody is like, “Where did that come from?”  No, He stood up in the midst of the Temple, where these lights were being lit, giving light to the neighborhoods, as you describe on the card. It was there He said, “Hey, I'm the Light of the World.”  Everybody kind of like—looking at Him, going, “In the midst of all this flaming light, you're saying ‘You're the Light of the World'?”  It was a revolutionary statement He was making—not just some kind of esoteric human philosophy that He was offering—again, with no context.  Barbara: It was also fulfillment of prophecy, too, because, as you read that, there is the verse in Isaiah that said, “A light will come;” and He's saying, “I'm the Light”— Bob: Yes.  Barbara: —“I'm the Light of the World that God promised.”  11:00 It was a way of Him saying to the people, who had been looking for the Messiah to come—“I am He.”   Bob: Now, if you were having your brother, and his wife, and their kids over for Easter dinner—and they go to church on Easter, and they go to church on Christmas, and that's about it—and they come in and see crosses on your table and conversation cards about Jesus is the Light of the World, would you put all of that out if you were having nominal folks come over?  Or would you—how would you handle that—do you think?   Barbara: It would really depend on who it was—and in your family, you sort of know. You might not want to read them all. You might want to read them all ahead of time and pick out one that you would read, sort of as a little introduction to the meal, but have them all out so that everybody—Uncle George, who hasn't darkened the door of a church in 10 years—but he still has one and he can pick it up and he can look at it—so that it exposes them but in a smaller dose.  Dennis: Yes, and there is some symbolism to this, Bob, that you wouldn't necessarily have to read.  12:00 Explain to them, Barbara—and this is one that you'd read—it's called “Hidden Bread.”  It's the second one that you would read. Explain how the Passover meal, really, symbolized the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.  Barbara: Jews celebrated the Passover meal for centuries, and Jews today still celebrate Passover. One of the steps of the Passover meal, for the Jewish people today, is when they take the bread—it's called matzah—and it's prepared, and always has been prepared, in sections.  This Jewish matzah bread has three pieces. It's divided into three pieces; and it's like: “Why is it divided into three pieces?”  And then, each of those pieces has all kinds of little holes marked into it. And a part of the Jewish tradition is—is that the father breaks that bread into the three pieces. He takes the middle one—he wraps it in a linen napkin or a linen cloth and then he hides it.  13:00 And the Jewish children, then, all go on a search to find it. The one who finds it brings it to the father, and the father pays him in silver coins for that piece.  There is so much symbolism!  There is so much history interwoven with the Jewish tradition of Passover, and what Jews actually practice today, and what we know about the story of Jesus—that you could read some of those pieces with people who may or may not be friendly to your faith. Yet, it's almost like a history lesson—they might go, “Oh, I didn't know that.”  It might make it more interesting and appealing.  Dennis: Yes, and simply to review with them—say: “For centuries, Jewish families celebrated the dinner. They had this time when they broke that bread—the matzah—in thirds and then hid the one that was wrapped in a napkin.”   It's like—we think, as followers of Christ, that what God was doing was— 14:00 —He was showing us what the resurrection was going to look like—that Jesus was going to be crucified, He was going to be wrapped in linen cloth and buried, and then, on the third day, He rose from the dead. I think it would cause an interesting discussion, even with people who aren't people of faith—just to cause them to begin to wonder, “Is there really something to this man—this God-man named Jesus Christ?”  That's what you really want to create around the table; isn't it?   Barbara: I want to create interest / I want to create conversation. I'm hoping that families can talk about some of these lesser-known details because one of the things that I've discovered through the years of studying the Bible is that the details matter. God doesn't overlook the small stuff. So, every detail of the Passover meal, every detail of every feast that He instituted, and every detail of the Temple that was in Israel—all of that pointed to Christ.  We don't know enough about that, as Gentiles / as people in the Christian church today.  15:00 The more we learn about Jewish history and culture, as God instituted it, the more it makes our faith more meaningful. And I think that's what so many of us are looking for in our families and in our celebration of Easter—is a way to make it more meaningful.  Bob: Each of these conversation cards has artwork on the other side of the card. Do you want to tell us about the artwork?   Barbara: The artwork is exceptionally beautiful, I think. And the story behind that is that I found a book at a garage sale, a number of years ago, and it's a book that was written by Peter Marshall. It was a sermon he gave on Easter Sunday; and it's a phenomenal little book. But it was full of these pen-and-ink drawings. The drawings are all about Christ and the resurrection. Each one of them—each of the cards has a beautiful pen-and-ink drawing on it.  Dennis: One of the other stories you tell, that I didn't know anything about until you did the research on this, was the story of the curtain.  16:00 Bob, you may remember, when Christ died on the cross, at that moment, obviously, there was an earthquake. It was dark, and there was something that took place in the Temple that was symbolic of what God had done through His Son, Jesus Christ. Explain what that was, Barbara, and what happened to the curtain in the Temple.  Barbara: Well, the Jewish Temple had a perfectly square room that was at the back of the Temple. It was closed off by this really thick curtain. Nobody knows precisely what it looked like or precisely how big it was, but the research that I did said that the curtain was between 60 and 90 feet tall—that's really tall—I mean, that's a really big curtain. None of us have curtains anywhere near that big in our house.  Dennis: And it wasn't a sheer curtain.  Barbara: And it wasn't a sheer curtain. It was between four and six inches thick. I would like to know how they even made it—I would like to know how it was woven.  17:00 Was it just a whole bunch of curtains that were then tied together?  I mean, how do you weave anything that is four to six inches thick and that tall?  It's just impossible to even imagine what it looked like to start off with.  But what is so remarkable—and it's one of those little pieces in the story of Easter that, every time I read it, I get chills because it says, at the moment that Jesus died, the curtain in the Temple was torn, from top to bottom. Now, think about a curtain that is four to six inches thick—that's almost more than you can put your hand around—and sixty to ninety feet tall—and it says, in Scripture, it was torn from top to bottom.  Bob: A body builder can do a phone book, but this curtain is thicker than a phone book; right?   Barbara: Yes, and so, you've got something—and it's the hand of God, of course—but you've got the hand of God, at the top of that thing, just ripping it in half. If you've ever torn a piece of fabric—which probably neither one of you have—but my mother was a seamstress. I learned, early on, that the best way to get a straight line in fabric is to rip it.  18:00 So, you make a snip in the edge of the fabric, you get your hands on either side of that little snip, and you really quickly—you tear it in half. It makes a really loud sound.  And that's just on a piece of thin fabric, but imagine the sound that probably occurred with a four-inch thick, ninety-feet tall piece of fabric—or whatever it was—being ripped in half. I just imagine that the sound alone was stunning to all the priests and the people who were in there—and they were busy with this business of doing the Passover sacrifices—and all of a sudden, there is this thunderous sound and the curtain is being torn in two. It was the moment that Christ breathed His last.  Bob: And the curtain had separated the people from the Holy of Holies—   Barbara: Exactly, that's why it was there!   Bob: —the dwelling place of God— Barbara: That's right.  Bob: —in the Temple. This was the place where they believed God dwelled.  Barbara: That's right.  Bob: The priest would go in once a year.  19:00 So, here is this dwelling place of God, and the death of Christ tears open that curtain so that we can be in the presence of God—again, because of what Christ has done.  Barbara: Exactly. So, the tearing of the curtain symbolized—for all who saw and understood and for those of us, now, who know—that the way to God was now opened. It was now free access. We can come to Him, as Hebrews said, “…anytime come before the throne of God.”  So, it was a visual statement that God made, on behalf of Christ and what He had done, that the way to Him was now open. We didn't need priests anymore. We don't need bloody sacrifices because Christ did it all.  Dennis: And if I had been alive during that day— Barbara: I know!  Wouldn't that be something?   Dennis: —it would have been really remarkable to go back to the Temple and interview the priests, going, “Well, what do you think— Bob: —“of what happened?”   Dennis: —“what happened?”   Bob: Yes.  Dennis: “Well, the curtain's ripped! It's no longer there!  It/that separated us from the Holy of Holies!”   20:00 Barbara: Well, now, all the people could see into the Holy of Holies. Nobody had seen it before, other than the high priest.  Dennis: Yes. And we all know, today, if you go to Israel, you're not going to find a Temple. You're not going to find the Holy of Holies because it's not there.  Bob: Right.  Dennis: No, there was One who came to get God into man, and it starts from the top down. He took on flesh—became a human being—lived a perfect life, died the perfect death, even though He bore our sins on His body, and defeated death. And because He defeated death, He can offer you eternal life. Now, that is the greatest story ever told.  Bob: Well, and maybe, because of the work that you've done, Barbara, there'll be some families that'll have a little richer, deeper understanding of what it is that we celebrate at Easter this year and in the years to come. Easter will be more meaningful than it's been for families.  Barbara: Well, I hope so because I think that we undervalue what Christ has done for us.  21:00 My prayer is that we would grow in our appreciation for the sacrifice and the price that He paid to redeem us. So, that is my prayer.  Dennis: There are two places on the planet where that needs to be taking place: One's at church / the other is in a family—what better place to communicate the reality of who Jesus Christ is and what He did on our behalf?  What a privilege we, as parents/ grandparents, have to introduce our children to the Messiah, the Great High Priest, and the Mediator.  Bob: Well, and everything Barbara has been working on is designed to help make that easier for moms and dads to do, while at the same time, making your home a place that declares the glory of God / the majesty of Christ.   And I want to encourage our listeners—take a look at the resources that Barbara has designed for us, here at FamilyLife, as part of the Ever Thine Home® collection of resources.  22:00 Go to the website, EverThineHome.com. Everything that Barbara has designed for Easter is available right there for you to look at. Again, it's EverThineHome.com. Look for the banner that you can hang on your front door at Easter or for the Savior names—the crosses that can be displayed as a table decoration—the cards we've talked about today that you can use at the dinner table—conversation and devotion around your Easter dinner table.  The website, again, is EverThineHome.com; or if you have any questions, you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. We can answer whatever questions you have or make arrangements to send some of these resources your direction. Again, the toll-free number is 1-800-FL-TODAY; and the website is EverThineHome.com.  You know, I know a lot of our listeners, over the years have used one of the resources that FamilyLife developed, years ago, to help celebrate the Easter season.  23:00 It's a tool called Resurrection Eggs®, where you can share the story of Easter with young children in a way that makes it memorable for them. It's interactive, and kids love it.  We thought, this year, we'd like to make that tool available to anyone who would like a set. All we're asking is that you help us with a donation to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today. We're listener-supported. So, your donation is what helps defray the cost of producing and syndicating this daily radio program. And if you'd like to help support us, we'd be happy to send you a set of Resurrection Eggs.  Simply go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link in the upper right-hand corner of the screen that says, “I CARE.”  You can make an online donation there and request the Resurrection Eggs. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make your donation over the phone and, again, request a set of Resurrection Eggs.  24:00 Or you can mail your donation to FamilyLife Today at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR. Our zip code is 72223.  Now, tomorrow, we've got a guy—a friend of ours—who has just been—he's been pestering us. He wants to come on the radio and talk about Easter. He's a friend—so, we're going to let him do it. Tune in tomorrow, and we'll introduce our guest to you. I hope you can do that.  I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow. Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesRelating to Your Adult Children (Part 1) - Relating to Adult SinglesRelating to Your Adult Children (Part 2) - What Adult Children Need When They Get MarriedRelating to Your Adult Children (Part 3) - Walking Through Crisis With Your Adult ChildrenFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Relating to Adult Singles Guests:                      Dennis and Barbara Rainey                       From the series:       Relating to Your Adult Children (Day 3 of 5)Air date:                     March 1, 2017______________________________________________________________________________ Bob: As a parent, what do you do when one of your adult children faces difficulty—they come to you, asking for help? Do you help out? Dennis Rainey says, “Maybe, but be careful.” Dennis: If you've got a child who has a pattern and a habit of irresponsible behavior, I think you dare not rescue them. Barbara: I agree. Dennis: You can't rush in and say, "Oh, let me help!" And some parents get their sense of importance and their own personal self-identity in terms of their relationship with their adult children. What they don't realize is they're raising children to become dependent upon them and not learn the lessons of life God has for them. Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, March 1st. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. As a parent, how can you tell when you ought to step in and help out and when you shouldn't? We'll talk about that today. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition. You hear —it's almost become a cliché — people will say, "Kids grow up so fast." And they do grow up fast; but there are times, when you look at them, and you think they ought to be more grown up than they are, and they haven't. Part of our assignment, as parents, is to help finish that job —to make sure we have pointed them to what adulthood is supposed to look like and gotten them ready for when full adulthood arrives. Then, when that happens, our relationship with them needs to transition away from what it's been to something different; doesn't it? Dennis: We have to move from being authoritative parents to affirming them, as adults, and then begin to relate to them, not as a parent in charge of them, but instead relate to them more as a peer, although we'll always be a parent with them. 2:00 Bob: That's right. You've been defining adulthood this week as —what is it?—independently dependent; right? Dennis: Independently dependent upon Jesus Christ.  Bob: That's where you want your children to be. Dennis: That's right. We want our children to have a faith of their own and learn how to live life under God's authority.  Barbara —who joins us again on FamilyLife Today —Barbara and I have —well, it sounds easy in the studio; but it's been an interesting process of releasing six of our children now through this transition phase toward adulthood and watching, now, five out of six get married. Hello!  It's an interesting process—trust me! Bob: Barbara, welcome back to the program.  Barbara: Thanks. Bob: We've talked about the transition that begins when the kids leave home for college, or for career, or maybe they're still home for awhile as they get established in a career / in a job.  3:00 We've also said we're aiming for a day that is a full-release day / an emancipation day. Did you memorialize that / did you ceremonialize that? In other words, did you have a dinner or an event, where you said: “Congratulations!—here's the title deed to the car,” or whatever you did to launch them into adulthood? Barbara: We did more of a ceremony upon graduation from high school, going into college and on their own, than we did going into adulthood. The real ceremony, when we officially said they were adults, was when they packed up the U-Haul® and pulled out of the driveway —that was the real ceremony. Bob: Right. Dennis: I think there are times when we, as parents, need to help our kids out —getting started—but we do need to be very careful that we're not using our position in life to just carve out a place for them where they don't have their own identity. 4:00 Bob: You know, I think most of us are aware that when children get married, we're supposed to have a new relationship with them. But there is a phase between, I don't know, the end of college and the time that they get married —that may be a couple of years —and they are adults but not married. That's kind of an awkward phase for us, as parents, to know what our responsibility should be —particularly, I think, for girls. Barbara: I think it's a little bit different for girls. Two of our children moved into that phase, unmarried —one was a son, and one was a daughter. It was different with our daughter than it was with our son. I felt a little bit more responsibility to help her with things. For instance, we went to visit her when she was still single and living in Atlanta. She picked us up from the airport, and we're driving down the freeway. Dennis said: "Your car feels kind of funny. Have you had it checked lately?" And she said, "Oh, yes; I had the oil changed,"—whatever. Well, when we got where we were going, he got out and looked at it. Her wheels —I mean, the tires on her car were nearly bare. 5:00 Dennis: You could see the steel belts. Bob:   Oh, really?—yes. Barbara: And she just—even though she did some minor car repair with her car when she was in college—I mean, you know, we told her, "Go get your oil changed," and all that kind of stuff—she never really was responsible for it totally on her own. And now she was, and she just didn't—she had no idea why her car was shaking. It didn't occur to her that there was anything wrong with it. She just thought it was the car, or the road, or whatever. We felt a little bit more a sense of responsibility to protect her and to help her take care of that. Bob: Now, did she need four tires? Dennis: Oh, yes! And the interesting thing was—is that took just about every penny she had in savings; and yet, she got a chance to see God's providential care, because some of our closest friends in Atlanta—well, we happened to be staying with them. They overheard the conversation—told us where to take the car to get the tires put on— 6:00 Barbara: —because they knew somebody locally who would give her a good deal and wouldn't overcharge her. That's a problem for these kids—because they don't know, when they're in a new city, who to go to and they can be taken advantage of. We were concerned about that, as her parents. Dennis: Yes; and it turned out to be more than tires. She needed brakes too. I mean, you know, it was—I think it was $500 or $600. These are really good friends; because they said: “You know, we realize Rebecca is working with young people today and leading high school girls to Christ in Atlanta. Barbara: Right.  Dennis: "We would like to participate in her ministry by supplying the tires and the brake pads for her car." They took care of it, and so here she got a chance to see God provide for her in a very specific way. Now, God doesn't always do that. Bob: Yes; and that's what I was going to say.  7:00 Let's say you didn't have friends who stepped in and did that. Your daughter calls and says: "I just took the car to the shop. It's $600, because they say I need brakes in addition to tires. Mom/Dad, I don't have $600. What do I do?" Barbara: I'm not sure what we would have done if she had not had the money. She had been saving money. That's part of the reason why this was so traumatic for her; because when she realized what this was going to cost, it would have taken every penny that she had saved up until that point. She was just overwhelmed. But if our friends hadn't stepped in, we would not have stepped in and paid for her tires. Bob: You wouldn't have bailed her out? You wouldn't have done it? Barbara: I don't think so—would we have? Dennis: Well, you know, since it involved a single woman in a major city on the freeways, driving back and forth to work, I don't know. [Laughter] Barbara: If she hadn't had the money, we might have helped her—I don't know what we would have done—but she had the money to cover it if they hadn't stepped in. So it was a good lesson, I know. Dennis: I'm glad I didn't have that choice, Bob. 8:00 Bob: This is one of the big areas—when we talk about your, now, adult children and that day of full emancipation—the financial side of things is where it all gets sticky; isn't it? Barbara: It really is. Dennis: And it gets really foggy, too, as to where we need to be careful we don't step in and rescue our children from irresponsibility.  Bob: Right. Dennis: Now, if you've got a child, who has a pattern and a habit of irresponsible behavior, I think you dare not rescue them. Barbara: I agree. Dennis: You can't rush in and say, "Oh, let me help." Some parents get their sense of importance and their own personal self-identity in terms of their relationship with their adult children. What they don't realize is they're raising children to become dependent upon them and not learn the lessons of life God has for them. Bob: You know, this issue of a child becoming financially independent is a challenge. There is another challenge, though, and that is how much freedom and independence should an adult child have in terms of relationships?  9:00 What about when an adult son—a 25-/26-year-old—comes and says, "I think I've met the one that is the one that I want to marry”?—does a parent say: "Well, that sounds great. Send us an invitation to the wedding,” or do you get more actively involved in the process than that? Dennis: Bob, I think a lot of parents don't play all the cards they have in their hand when it comes to this decision. I think we, as parents, need to be involved in this aspect of their children's lives. The reason is—this is a life-determinative decision. Who you marry really determines what—not merely how you're going to live—but the spiritual plane on which you live and where you are going to raise your children and under what values.  10:00 As parents, I think if there is a time to step into your children's lives—and to disagree with them, or to throw your body in front of the train as they are running and rushing headlong into marriage—it's right here. We've done this on two or three different occasions with our children. Bob, I'll tell you—it's one of the riskiest things Barbara and I have ever done in our relationship with our children. Interestingly enough, it's not occurred around our sons—it's been around our daughters, who I do think need a dad and a mom to help them navigate these waters. Barbara: I remember, with two of our girls, stepping in. I think what I want to say is—there's a huge difference in letting your children fail, financially, as in bouncing checks or some of those kinds of things, and fail in the most important decision that they make. With our oldest daughter, she was dating a young man who, outwardly, had everything we were looking for.  11:00 And yet there was something inside of me and in Dennis, too—I think, if I remember right—we both felt this way. Dennis: Yes; but you stronger than me. Barbara: Yes; but there was something that just wasn't right. I remember going for walks. When I'd go walking in the mornings, I'd say: "Lord, what is it that I don't feel good about? What is it that I don't like?" I would mentally go through this checklist and go, "Well, he's this, and he's this, and he's this," and all these things that we thought we wanted in a husband for our daughter; but there was something inside—it was kind of an intuitive thing—that didn't feel right. As we talked and prayed about it, that didn't change. I remember driving to Memphis to meet Ashley for lunch one day. It's a two-hour drive for me, and it was a two-hour drive for her. She was a junior in college at the time. We met in Memphis for lunch. I went with the express purpose of talking her out of this relationship and convincing her that this was not the person that she needed to be marrying. 12:00 Dennis: And I want to say here, Bob—that trip that she made came about after a lot of prayer— Barbara: A lot. Dennis: —and a lot of discussion on our part. It also came after Barbara and I had counted the cost that this might cost us our relationship with our daughter—she was that much "head over heels" with the young man. We also realized that we had to handle it appropriately; because if she decided to ignore our counsel, and then decided to share what we were saying with the young man, we would be dead on arrival at the wedding. Bob: —and for the rest of the marriage. Dennis: Absolutely—there would be no relationship / virtually, no chance of a relationship. It would be a remarkable man or woman who could look past that kind of—well— 13:00 Barbara: —concern. Dennis: Yes; intrusion—we inserted ourselves into that relationship. I remember another conversation that we had with Ashley on our way from Little Rock to another city, where we talked to her again. These were hard discussions with our firstborn daughter. Bob: And I want to ask you about them, because you talk about throwing yourself in front of the train. Were you saying to her: "Your dad and I could not support this. We couldn't come to a wedding." I mean, there are different levels, or were you just saying: "Boy, we've got some real concerns; and we want you to think about this. It's going to be your decision, but …” Barbara: I think what we were doing is—I think we had had some of those smaller, more minor, so to speak, conversations along the way on the phone. But when I drove to Memphis, it was a lot more significant—primarily because I was taking the time, and she was taking the time.  14:00 It was not just a phone call; and I drove over there to say—not just "We have concerns," because that had already been expressed—I drove over there to say: "We really don't feel like this is God's will for you,” and “We really are concerned and want to plead with you to reconsider."  I don't remember what I said, honestly—I don't remember what words I used—but I remember that it was very difficult to do. I remember that she didn't respond. She said: "I appreciate you taking the time to come over here. I've heard what you said, but I don't agree with you. I'm not going to call it off—I'm not going to break up with him."  I remember leaving and driving home. I had to pull over to the side of the road for a few minutes because I was crying so hard I couldn't drive—because I felt like I'd lost her. It was a real vivid—it's a real vivid memory for me. I was driving out of the city, and she was actually behind me. At the point where I kept going west to Little Rock, and she had to take this turn to go south to go back to Ole Miss— 15:00 —I watched her car. I just remember feeling like she was gone and that it was over—the relationship was over because she just made it so clear that she did not agree with her mom and dad—that she thought we were totally missing it—she was right, and we were wrong. It was a very, very hard situation. Dennis: And I want to say this—to step into your emerging adult child's life and speak for God, you better be sure you're speaking for God—the Scriptures really warn against that. But I'm going to tell you—as we evaluated that relationship, as we observed, as we went to the Scriptures—it really wasn't right / it wasn't best for Ashley. God used that conversation that Barbara had in Ashley's life to get her attention—He used us / He used her brothers, interestingly enough, who also went to her. 16:00 Bob: You didn't set them up on this deal; did you? Dennis: No; they kind of independently had conversations with her, where she began to see "I'm in a tough spot."  Barbara: It wasn't just us—it was her brothers too—and so that—it made the choice more significant, on her part, to reject those who knew her best and loved her most for her decision. Interestingly, God also used the young man that she eventually married. I don't know that he had any intentions of dating Ashley, either, at the time; but I remember her calling me on the phone and telling me what Michael said. Inwardly, I went: "Oh, he is so right! I am so glad God allowed him to talk to her," because she respected him as a friend; and he didn't have the same motives that her family had. He was an outside source, looking in; and God used him too. It was gracious of God to work all of that out to prevent her from making a poor choice. 17:00 Bob: How long from the time you had lunch with her and thought you'd lost her until she broke off the relationship? Barbara: Probably about two-and-a-half months. Bob: Wow!—a tough two-and-a-half months for you. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: And I want to be quick to say too—that young man is a valuable young man. Barbara: Yes; and this is not against him. Dennis: It really wasn't; but it was just a combination of things we saw in their relationship that made it not right.  To say nothing is the easiest thing. The more courageous thing is to step in, and to say it in a way that gains you the greatest chance of being heard, and then to step back and pray, and allow God to do the work. It really is a sacred and a holy moment to be able to step into your children's lives. If you do that, you better make sure you're in agreement, as a couple, and that you've counted the cost of what you're going to say and what you're going to do. 18:00 Bob: —and that you use some wisdom in how you approach it.  Dennis: And, Bob, after you're a part of maybe a breakup like that, as parents, you can't be just a demolition derby, where you're destroying relationships or breaking up relationships. You have to step back into your children's lives and refurbish hope. One of my favorite quotes for single young women and for single young men is by a great English preacher by the name of D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. It's very simple—he said, "Faith is the refusal to panic."  “Can you trust God with these circumstances? Can you believe that God is the God of hope?—that He can replace the hurt, the disappointment, and the breakup of this relationship with something far better?”—something spoken of in Romans, Chapter 12:2—"…that which is good, acceptable, and perfect—the will of God."  19:00 As parents, we've got to speak the words that, at points, divide; but we also have to speak the words that bring faith and encouragement, especially to these young adults who don't—you know, they don't have the knowledge of God and trusting Him for all these issues. We have to minister to them, and come alongside them, and be careful not merely to preach at them but to comfort them and encourage them. Bob: That's a good word. I'm thinking about the times when my parents were still alive—or my in-laws—have said to me, “You're doing a good job.” It's comforting to know, even as an adult / as a grown-up, to know that others who are watching you / who have a vested interest in this are affirming what you're trying to do, as a parent. I think we have to remember, as moms and dads, that we can be a powerful source for encouragement and affirming our kids when we see them doing what they ought to be doing, as husbands and wives or as parents. 20:00 In fact, I'm thinking to myself that we probably have some listeners who have tuned in, who have not been able to be with us for this entire conversation this week. They may want to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. I think this whole series is helpful for moms and dads who have kids who are approaching the finish line or who have crossed over—maybe it's been several years since your kids became emancipated adults. It's just helpful to have some reminders about what our assignment is with our adult children. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com, and you can listen to all five parts of this conversation on our website—you can stream it / you can download each of the five individual segments in this series—and of course, streaming, and downloads, and transcripts are all free.  21:00 We're able to provide this for listeners because of folks, like you, who make it possible—folks like you who are Legacy Partners or who will occasionally contribute to support this ministry. You're enabling us to have these kinds of conversations and to reach more and more people with God's design for marriage and family. That's how your dollars get invested when you donate to FamilyLife. Your dollars make it possible for the reach of this ministry to expand. We're hearing from folks all around the world, who are benefiting from the ministry of FamilyLife Today. Thank you for your partnership with us.  If you can help with a donation today, either a first-time gift as a new monthly Legacy Partner or a one-time donation in support of this ministry, we'd like to say, “Thank you,” by helping you get ready to celebrate Easter this year with your kids or your grandkids.  22:00 We'd love to send you a set of FamilyLife's Resurrection Eggs®—a dozen plastic eggs, each with a symbol in each one designed to highlight a different aspect of the life of Jesus in His last week before His resurrection. You can donate, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to make a donation. Or you can request the Resurrection Eggs and mail your donation to FamilyLife Today at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. Again, thanks for partnering with us and helping us reach more people with the practical biblical help and hope that we seek to provide, here at FamilyLife. Now, this weekend is a big weekend for us, here at FamilyLife. We will have thousands of couples who will be attending one of our Weekend to Remember® marriage getaways this weekend. Three of them are within driving distance of one another.  23:00 We have a team that is headed out—in fact, they're heading out now—to go to Cleveland, Ohio, because the Weekend to Remember in Cleveland starts this Friday night. They're going to be there—the team—this is our FamilyLife Weekend to Remember road trip team. They're going to be there, talking to couples—getting stories/  hearing about the experience of the Weekend to Remember—and reporting on all of it on Facebook® / doing some Facebook live and some Facebook updates so that you can follow along with what the road trip team has going on all weekend.  They go from Cleveland to Chicago overnight; and they'll be at the Chicago Weekend to Remember on Saturday; and then they head to Nashville, where they'll be on Sunday—so three events in three states over the course of the weekend. You can follow along with everything that's happening if you follow us on Facebook. If you don't know how to follow us on Facebook, go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. Look for the Facebook logo, and we'll give you the directions there so that you can keep an eye on what's happening this weekend.  24:00 If you've never been to a Weekend to Remember, this will be a good chance for you to get a sense of what goes on at one of these weekend getaways. Now, tomorrow, we're going to continue our conversation about adult children. We're going to talk about how much space is too much space / how much is not enough—you know, when your kids need a little space and you think: “Should we call them? Should we just leave them alone? Am I pestering them?” We'll talk about that tomorrow. Hope you can tune in for that conversation. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.______________________________________________________________________________  Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com   

Click Here to Listen to the other parts in the seriesRelating to Your Adult Children (Part 1) - Relating to Adult SinglesRelating to Your Adult Children (Part 2) - What Adult Children Need When They Get MarriedRelating to Your Adult Children (Part 3) - Walking Through Crisis With Your Adult ChildrenFamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. What Adult Children Need When They Get Married Guests:                      Dennis and Barbara Rainey                       From the series:       Relating to Your Adult Children (Day 4 of 5)Air date:                     March 2, 2017  Bob: Alright; imagine this scene—one of your children was recently married. She is now back from the honeymoon—been back in town for a couple of days, and you haven't heard from her. Do you call her, or do you wait for her to call you? Here's Barbara Rainey. Barbara: I think that the best course is to give your children as much freedom as you can, and then let them invite you back into their lives rather than showing up all the time and calling every day and there being a sense of "Just leave us alone!" because sometimes parents are over-involved from the beginning when they—what that other person really needs is for them to step back and be invited. This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, March 2nd. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Are you giving your adult children the space they need? We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. 1:00  And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition. We're talking this week about parents dealing with adult children and how our relationship, as parents, has to change as our children become adults. I always think about Stu Weber's wife Linda, who joined us years ago on FamilyLife Today—the point that she made when her son had just gotten engaged—you remember this story; right? Dennis: I do remember the illustration she used. Bob: She gave a present to her daughter-in-law, and it was the night of the rehearsal dinner; right? Dennis: Right. Bob: And the daughter-in-law opened up the box and pulled out two strips of cloth— Barbara: Apron strings. Dennis: —that had been clipped. Bob: It was Linda's way of saying: “The relationship is changing—I acknowledge that. The apron strings belong to you now.” 2:00 Dennis: Yes; and to talk about the apron strings—we bring Barbara back to the studio, my bride now since 1972. Bob: Have you clipped off some apron strings? Barbara: We have. Dennis: No doubt about it!  Barbara: We have. Dennis: Contrast that with parents who lengthen the apron strings when their kids get married. Bob: The tether, you mean? Dennis: Oh my goodness!—and the problems that that brings! You know, in raising kids, you move from high control to ultimately no control. You move from total influence to—how should I say it?—minimal influence— Bob: Limited influence? Dennis: Limited influence—  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: —maybe that's the better way to state it. Bob: Well, and that's what I'm wondering: “Does the relationship between a parent and child change to the point where there is virtually no influence / where there is no control?—or once they're married, do you still have some level of control?” 3:00 Dennis: Yes; it can move to that Bob—at the decision of the child. It really does depend upon the adult child, if he or she is going to allow the parent, or the parents, to influence them. Barbara: For us, we really wanted to be invited into our adult children's lives as opposed to assuming that we could have influence. We wanted to have some influence—we still wanted to keep the relationship going—and we hoped they would call and ask for advice on buying their first house, or a job, or some of those kinds of things; but we didn't assume that would be the case. We didn't want to presuppose anything with them because we wanted them to want our involvement in their lives. Bob: And you've gotten that invitation from your children; right? Barbara: Yes. Bob: If you hadn't gotten it—let's assume for a moment that a child didn't call and ask for your opinion on buying a first house, changing a job—any of these things. There was still a cordial relationship but a clear signal of distance. 4:00 Dennis: Hands off. Bob: Would you observe those boundaries and say, "That's the way it ought to be"? Barbara: Yes; because to do otherwise is to not really give them their freedom—it's to not give the apron strings / it's to say, "I still know better than you, and you need me." All that's going to do is create resentment and hostility, and it's just not healthy for our relationship. So, I think if any of our kids had made it clear that they didn't want our advice, or our thoughts, or our counsel, we wouldn't have given it. Dennis: We're talking here about what adult children need when they get married. Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think they have some very specific needs. First, they need the blessing and the approval of their parents as they begin to establish this new relationship that they've never had before—that they've never experienced before. They need us to, I think, provide—if not in a ceremony, certainly through our words and our attitudes—a sense of sending them into the marriage and commissioning them in this new relationship. 5:00 Bob: Barbara, the Scriptures say that in marriage, we are to leave father and mother—we're to cleave to husband and wife. There is a level of independence that is prescribed by the Scriptures for marriage. I think the question is, “How complete is that independence?” That's where it gets fuzzy; you know? Barbara: Yes; it really does. That's why I think that the best course is to give your children as much freedom as you can, and then let them invite you back into their lives. I would rather err on being less involved and have my kids say, "Why don't you call us more often?" and "We want you to come visit more often," rather than showing up all the time, and calling every day, and there being a sense of "Just leave us alone!" you know; because that can happen.  6:00 I think sometimes parents are so eager to continue that relationship and to get to know the new person in the family / the new spouse that they are over-involved from the beginning, when they—what that other person really needs is for them to step back and be invited. Bob: Have some space; yes. But what if the invitation back in, on the part of the child, is really an invitation, saying, "I want you to be my parent again,"— Barbara: Yes; that could happen. Bob: —or “I want you to—  Barbara: —“…rescue me,” or “…help me out financially.” Bob: What about that? Barbara: Well, I think parents just need to be discerning and understand what the request really is and not get sucked into rescuing this couple, because the young man needs to be the provider and the leader of the family. For parents to step back in and assume that, at any level, is to undermine him as the husband. Dennis: Genesis, Chapter 2:24-25 makes it real clear: “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, shall cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” If we're not careful, as parents of adult children, as they get married, we'll undermine a spouse, whether it be a male or a female.  7:00 We'll undermine their relationship— Bob: Yes. Dennis: —create divided loyalties. Your children must leave you. Barbara: That's right. Dennis: Your children must leave you if they are going to cleave to their spouse. And if you attempt to undo the cleaving by pulling them back towards yourself—either through manipulation, through anger, through pouting. I've had adult children tell me all kinds of ways that parents have tried to get their way through them. In the process, they have become dangerous to the success of the marriage relationship. Bob: Yes. Dennis: I just want to underline what Barbara said: “If you have to err on one side or the other,”—and this is our firm conviction—“I would rather our children be inviting us back in than telling us to get out!” 8:00 Bob: But if they're inviting you back, as parents—if they're saying: “Rescue us,” “Save us,” “Help us,” —you've got to be discerning in that. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: You really do.  There is one other thing I want to point out here too. Your children are constantly going to be looking into your face for approval—they looked into your face for 18, 20, 20-plus years. What you have to be careful, as parents, is that you give an appropriate amount of encouragement—cheering them on, putting your arm around them and telling them what a great job they've done—but then, at points, when they surprise you, or they shock you, or they make a wrong choice—tell your face to play poker / I mean, put on a poker face. Do not scowl at them, judge them, or become critical of them. For some of us, who tend to wear our feelings on our sleeves and are very open people, that becomes very difficult. Bob: Yes. 9:00 Dennis: I have, on more than one occasion—as I've related to our adult children— I've had to just kind of, internally, go: "Now, Dennis, keep your emotions. They are their own person. They are not a six-year-old," even though they may be acting [Laughter] like they're a bit younger—maybe not like a six-year-old. And, of course, these would not be our children to do this. Bob: Right! Dennis: But you will find, as you raise adult children, who get married—their values will not be your values. They're going to have their own, and you have to give them freedom to have their own values. Barbara: That's right. Bob: Some of the best advice I remember hearing on this particular topic came as we were interviewing Carolyn Mahaney and her three daughters. Carolyn said the girls would call regularly and say: "Mom, what do you think I should do about this?” “What's your advice here?"  I remember her saying that her first question back to them was always, "Well, what does your husband think?"  Dennis: Yes. Bob: I thought, “Now that's shrewd.”  Dennis: It is. Barbara: Very wise. Bob: That's a mom who understands that the loyalty and the allegiance needs to be transferred.  10:00 Your daughters and daughters-in-law have invited you into their lives. Did they know they were supposed to do that? Dennis: You know, Bob, before our children were married, we told them that up until the point where they tied the knot, we had a few things we— Bob: —you were still going to say. Dennis: —we were still going to say, and some coaching tips, and maybe some final shaping of even an adult child before they got married, where we felt like: “You know what? Before you take on this commitment, this is fair game. This is a healthy discussion. We're going to talk to you about how you two come together in this thing called marriage and maybe some patterns in your life that we see will impact your marriage.” But we told them: “After you get married, if you want our opinion, you're going to have to ask for it. That means—if you want our help and our opinion about some issue between you and your spouse, you're going to have to ask for it.  11:00 “If you want some help about disciplining children after you start having children, you'll have to invite us back in to do that.” And, Bob, all of our children have done that. I think it was the freedom we gave them to say: “You know what? You've got to decide whether you want to invite us back in, and we'll come back in on your terms.” Bob: You think, in general, Barbara, that parents ought to take the responder role rather than the initiator role once marriage has taken place—let them initiate / you respond—don't you initiate and start offering advice. Barbara: Yes; I would really agree with that, because then that gives them the freedom to make their own choices, and to create their own life, and to work out the marriage the way they want to. I just think it keeps parents from intruding and coming across parental. Bob: When your daughters or your daughters-in-law have invited you in and sought your counsel, what kinds of things have they asked you about? Barbara: Well, I have had some conversations with Ashley, I think, from time to time, because she married first—she was about four years ahead of the boys.  12:00 After Samuel's wedding, we were still all together—the rest of the family—we hadn't all left and gone back to our respective homes. We were talking with Ben and Marsha Kay, who were engaged and were to be married six weeks later. Marsha Kay was so sweet and so kind and said to me, as we were just sitting around, having a conversation—she said, "You know, I'd really like for you to give me some tips on being a wife." I remember feeling so honored, first of all, because I really didn't know her that well. She was kind of the new kid on the block in the family, so to speak. Bob: She's marrying Barbara Rainey's son—I mean, you've got a chance to get Barbara Rainey's advice! Every young woman wants that; don't they?! Barbara: Well, not necessarily. [Laughter] I sure wasn't going to give it without being asked; and I didn't expect that, actually. I had no intention of giving her any advice—or Stephanie, either, for that matter—but Marsha Kay said: "You know, I'd really like to have you give me some tips on being a wife. I've never been a wife before, and I just would like for you to do that."  13:00 I remember—I just remember feeling such an incredible sense of honor that she would ask. I asked the other two girls—I asked Ashley and Stephanie both if they would be interested. They said they would—so I began to write them just on topics that I remember learning about in our years of marriage. I started out by writing things that I remember learning those first few years, and then I broadened it to things that I've continued to learn over the course of our marriage. Bob: What's one of the things that you've shared                                                                          with them? Barbara: The first letter that I wrote—I just wrote some things that I remember learning those very early months of our marriage. I wrote about how I learned how to pray and how not to pray for my husband—that was the topic of the first letter. Would you like for me to read a piece of it? Bob: I'd like to know— Barbara: You would? Bob: —what you learned about how to pray and how not to pray; yes. Barbara: Okay. Dennis: It was hard to pray for me because—[Laughter] Barbara: There wasn't much that needed to be fixed; right? 14:00 Dennis: No! No! It was kind of boring there in the early years. Barbara: Alright; now let me read then [Laughter] what really happened. Bob: A truth check coming up here!  Dennis: “And now, the rest of the story.” Barbara: Yes; well, here is one of the paragraphs that I wrote:  One of the very first lessons I learned, as a new wife, was how to pray and how not to pray for my husband. Even though we'd been good friends for three years before we married, I quickly discovered—just a few short months into the marriage—that there were some habits, tendencies, and weaknesses—[Laughter] Dennis: Rewind the tape—hurry! Bob: Habits, tendencies, and weaknesses— Dennis: Bob, Bob, Bob—you don't have to repeat! The listeners heard it the first time, Bob. Bob: Keep going—I'm loving this. Dennis: We're calling Mary Ann next. [Laughter] Barbara: Anyway:  There were some of those things”—I won't repeat them—“in my husband that were not so pleasant. We were living in Boulder, Colorado, that first year of marriage. Neither of us had any friends, locally, much less a mentor.  15:00 Mentoring was not even a concept then.  I had a good model of faithfulness, and loyalty, and servanthood in my mother; but I have no idea if she prayed for my father. I only assumed that, as a Christian wife—and I was going to be the best wife that ever lived—I should pray for my husband, and so I began a page for him in my quiet time notebook. I don't remember the details now—only what I learned. Being conscientious, I began to record the things that I started seeing that I thought needed to be changed. I was sure God would agree with me. I added to my— Dennis: Could we now have some music that begins to play over her voice? [Laughter] Bob: No, no, no, no! We're enjoying this too much! [Laughter] Dennis: How about Amazing Grace? [Laughter] Barbara: There you go—that applies to me too. Let's see:  I was sure God would agree with me. I added to my list slowly, but it didn't take long for the list to grow to ten or more weaknesses. I felt it my duty to pray faithfully for Dennis and to do it every day. I was surprised, however, to discover that my praying for God to change all those areas only caused me to focus every day on what was wrong, in my opinion. 16:00 Bob: So you were meditating on your— Barbara: —my husband—I was. Bob: You're meditating on your husband's weaknesses. Barbara: I was meditating on all these things every day, as I thought that was what I was supposed to do, as a wife—bring this before God.  Bob: Yes. Barbara: I thought it was the right thing to do. Dennis: [Hums Amazing Grace] Bob: In the process of that meditation, did the Lord begin to tweak your thinking? Barbara: He did. [Laughter] Bob: Please, cut the music here. [Laughter] Give our listeners a little grace; will you? [Laughter] Barbara: So the question was— Bob: Over time, did the Lord begin to adjust your thinking? Barbara: He did—and quickly I might add too. I'll pick it back up from the letter that I wrote to the girls—I wrote:  I felt it my duty to pray faithfully for Dennis. I was surprised, however, to discover that my praying for God to change all those things only caused me to focus every day on what was wrong. My prayers made me see him negatively, especially since God wasn't answering quickly. I didn't like the result. It may have been a spiritual exercise, but it wasn't fun. 17:00 I remember clearly one day deciding to quit praying my list. I told the Lord that it was His business to change my husband's life, and I wasn't going to remind Him anymore what He needed to work on. I said, “Lord, I give my husband to You, and I give You all these things that I think need to be changed. If You want to change any of those, it's up to You. I'm not praying about it anymore.”  Perhaps it was that day or maybe a few days later, but my shift in focus made a big difference in my perspective. I didn't notice the things that were wrong nearly as often. They didn't bother me as much anymore and it was a great relief. Dennis: Could we have the Hallelujah chorus instead of Amazing Grace now? [Laughter] Bob: Actually, the thing I want to know is: “Can you remember just one or two things from the list?” [Laughter] Barbara: Actually, I can! Bob: Yes? Barbara: I just began to see how different we were. Dennis: [Hums Amazing Grace] Barbara: Here we go! [Laughter] Bob: —full of grace. Barbara: Because I was organized and more disciplined, and I thought he should be that way too. I didn't realize how good it was for me that we were so different.  18:00 I just was very immature and very young. I didn't know how to be a wife! Bob: That's the reality for our kids when they get married. That's why it's hard for us, as parents, not to want to intervene and help them grow up. Dennis: Man, I'm telling you. Bob: But you're saying, “Don't go there!” unless they invite you. Barbara: That's correct. Dennis: I know of one pair of parents, who have an adult daughter and son-in-law, where the son-in-law and the daughter made some choices that were just unwise and didn't wait to get the counsel—went ahead and rushed ahead to make a major purchase. You can make some pretty colossal mistakes in your early months and years of marriage—like purchasing a house when you're overstepping your ability—and then you begin to find out you're way over-extended. Then you've got bigger issues like credit reports.  19:00 I know, in this pair of parents' lives—that was hard for them to sit back / to watch and to say nothing. I mean, if you're not invited in—and they are about to make a colossal mistake—sometimes it takes a mistake for the lesson to be learned.  The discipline for parents—I thought raising little ones was difficult—but truthfully, saying nothing many times was more difficult, as we've related to our adult children—who have done remarkably well—but saying nothing is far more difficult than what you used to say when you were raising little ones and teenagers. Bob: Yes; part of the challenge is that we've raised them, as children and as teenagers, for so long—that we've gotten so used to parenting them—that it's hard for us to pull back from what we're used to doing.  20:00 That's why I think what we've been trying to do all week is provide some coaching for moms and dads in this area. It may be that this is one of those series that you need to go back and listen to a second time, or share with a friend, or share with your spouse so that both of you are on the same page as you raise your children and as you do let them go.  The good news is you can download all five parts of this series on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. Download the audio and listen to it at your leisure. You can stream it from our website, FamilyLifeToday.com. If you have the FamilyLife app, you can listen anytime you want—to this on the app. If you'd prefer to read the transcripts, those are available as well. 21:00  The reason that we have all these different ways of making this program and this series available is because we have listeners who have said, “This kind of practical biblical help needs to be distributed widely.” You've made it possible through your financial gifts—for FamilyLife Today to be heard, not only on radio, but on the web, through the downloads, through our daily podcast, through our app—and then the transcripts being available as well. Our Legacy Partners and those of you who contribute on occasion—you make all of that possible as you partner with us. Here, in the ministry of FamilyLife, our goal is to see every home become a godly home. As you support the ministry, we're able to expand and reach more and more people with God's design for marriage and family. I just want to say a word of thanks to those of you who are Legacy Partners—monthly donors who support this ministry—and those of you who will, from time to time, make a donation to support what we're doing. We're grateful for your ongoing support of this ministry. 22:00 If you can help with a donation today—whether it's your first gift as a new Legacy Partner or it's a one-time donation—we'd love to say, “Thank you,” by sending you a resource you can use with your children or your grandchildren in the weeks leading up to Easter. It's called Resurrection Eggs®. If you're not familiar with these—it is a dozen plastic eggs, each one containing a different symbol that represents something that happened in the life of Jesus between the time of His triumphal entry on Palm Sunday and the time of His resurrection. It's a great way for kids to learn the Easter story and learn about the last week of Jesus' life on earth. Resurrection Eggs are our thank-you gift to you when you make a donation to support the ministry this week. You can do that, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can make a donation over the phone—call 1-800-FL-TODAY. You can also mail your donation, along with your request for the Resurrection Eggs.  23:00 Write to FamilyLife Today at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; and our zip code is 72223. Again, thanks for your partnership with us in the ministry of FamilyLife Today. Now, I know we've got thousands of couples who are excited about this weekend; because they're going to be joining us at one of our Weekend to Remember® marriage getaways. We have a team from here at FamilyLife that is on the road—they are on their way to Cleveland, Ohio, today, where the Weekend to Remember kicks off tomorrow night. They're going to be, on hand, getting stories—talking to folks / finding out about what happens at a Weekend to Remember—and then sharing all of that on Facebook® live and with updates. Then they're going to move on from Cleveland to Chicago. They'll be at the Weekend to Remember in Chicago on Saturday; and from there, they head to Nashville on Sunday. If you'd like to follow their progress throughout the weekend, you just need to follow us on Facebook.  24:00 You can do that by going to FamilyLifeToday.com and clicking the Facebook icon—that'll get you all hooked up. We hope you'll peek in over the course of the weekend and see what's going on at these Weekend to Remember marriage getaways.  I hope you'll be back with us tomorrow when we're going to talk about how what's going on with your adult children—even after they've left the home—can still have an impact on your marriage relationship, as husband and wife. We'll pick up on that tomorrow. I hope you can be here for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.   Copyright © FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Leaning on God Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                                            From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 2 of 3)                Bob: Barbara Rainey says there's a lesson that every couple needs to learn really early in their marriage. The lesson is this: “You can't do this on your own.” Barbara: The bottom line is going to be the same for the rest of your life; and that is, when God brings you to a place that you realize you cannot do this thing called marriage, you can't do this thing called mothering, you can't even do the Christian life on your own—that you come to Him and you say: “I give up. I surrender—Your will, not mine.” Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, February 16th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. We'll find out today just how important it is to have a spiritual foundation poured in your marriage if you're going to try to build a home on top of it. Stay tuned.  And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I'm curious—did you think, when you and Barbara, in the summer of 1972—I guess September of '72 / late summer; right? Dennis: Right; right. Bob: That's when the two of you stood and faced one another and said your vows. Dennis: It was still summer in Houston. Bob: Did you think, “This is going to be a breeze,” or did you think, “I know there will be some challenges”? Dennis: I just didn't think. [Laughter] Honestly! I was in love. I was committed. I was ready to get on with life with my new bride and my new love. Honestly, I didn't do a lot of cost-counting; but I did make a commitment. Bob: We heard your wife laugh as you said, “I wasn't really thinking.” Barbara, welcome to FamilyLife Today. Barbara: Thank you. Dennis: Were you thinking, Barbara? Barbara: Not much more than you were. Bob: But were you confident? Barbara: Yes, I really was. Bob: Did you start marriage, thinking, “I can do this”? Barbara: Yes; I really did because I had grown up in a good home. My parents were not divorced. I had seen them work out their marriage and—though there were things I wanted to do differently—I felt like I could do this. Added to that, I was doubly confident because I was a Christian and my husband was. We were not just pew-warmers / we were committed Christ followers. I thought: “This is guaranteed to work because we've got the right ingredients: We love each other. We love the Lord. We are going to do this the right way. We're going to follow the instructions in the Bible—A+B=C. It's going to work out great!” Bob: The reason we're exploring this is because you've been spending a lot of time, recently, working on editing a series of letters—actually, emails that grew into letters. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Letters that you've written over the years to your daughters and your daughters-in-law, where you've just offered counsel from your own life and experience about getting married. Barbara: Yes. I started writing this series of letters the summer that both of our sons got married. It wasn't so much that I wanted to teach them—and I was invited to do so by the way—I didn't do this without an invitation. It was that I wanted to encourage them by sharing some of the stories of things that I had learned so that they would know that: “Oh, it's normal to have disagreements. Oh, it's normal for this to happen or that to happen,” so that they would understand the long view of marriage and the big picture of marriage. Dennis: One of the things that had occurred in our marriage that I think really pointed out the importance of perhaps Barbara doing this—early in our marriage, she had kind of run into the differences between us and how that was impacting her. Someone told us—and I don't remember who—but said, “You really ought to go spend some time with an older woman who has experienced more of life and been around the barn a few more times than you have.” Just to spend some time and to know that what you're going through is normal. Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think couples start out their marriage together and they get isolated. They don't realize that what they're going through is what everybody else is dealing with. But if they have someone who is seasoned / who's authentic—and not going to create some kind of pie-in-the-sky approach that's: “A+B=C, and you're going to have all your problems solved by sundown tonight,”—if you've got somebody who's real and helps you understand that it takes a lifetime to work out this thing called marriage. That's what really fueled Barbara in writing our daughters and our daughters-in-law to be able to enter in to these first months and years of their marriage. Bob: Barbara, one of the issues you felt like you needed to mentor your daughters and daughters-in-law in was this issue that we talked about—your confidence that you could be the wife and mom that God called you to be—that, at some point along the way, you kind of woke up and went, “This is harder than I thought it was going to be.” Barbara: Yes. I think that realization was an on-going realization. What I've realized, as I look back over my life, is that, along the way—from those early months of our marriage all the way up until the present—God has been saying to me, over and over again, “You can't do this on your own.” Now, my initial response is, “Oh, yes; I can.” Bob: Yes. Barbara: Because I've got—especially in the early years—a lot of motivation, a lot of energy, a lot of enthusiasm—to really do a good job being a wife. Most young women start out that way / most new brides start out that way. We're highly motivated, highly teachable, energetic, ready to go and be the best we can be; but God knows that, if we really are able to produce on our own, then our confidence is in our self and not in Him.  In this section of the book, I tell lots of stories of how God took me places where I realized I could not do it on my own; and I could not garner up enough strength on my own to see the situation through. Bob: The book you're talking about, of course, is called, Letters to My Daughters. It's your brand-new book. The subtitle is The Art of Being a Wife—Barbara Rainey is showing us on FamilyLife Today.  Barbara, you started marriage as a committed follower of Christ. You were involved in ministry, but there were cracks in your spiritual foundation that started to show up under the pressure of marriage— Barbara: Yes; they did. I first felt it most dramatically after our first child was born. We had moved for probably the fourth or fifth time—I can't remember. We'd moved a bunch in those first two-and-a-half years of marriage. I remember one day just feeling really overwhelmed with these jobs I had. I was a wife, and I was a mother—and it was 24/7. Our new little baby didn't come with an instruction manual, and I didn't know what I was doing. We lived in California, and my mother was in Texas. It's not like I could call her every day, or I could go visit her, or she could come over in the afternoon and babysit so I could take a nap. I mean, I was really very, very lonely. I was very isolated, and I was very bewildered as to how to make this thing work: “How do I do this wifing and mothering thing without any instructions?” I really remember feeling a sense of real aloneness in that season of my life. I tell a story in the book—would you like to hear it?—about how I ran away? Bob: You ran away?! Barbara: I ran away. [Laughter] Dennis: It wasn't far—but she did run away. [Laughter] Barbara: No; it wasn't far—No; it wasn't far—but I had this—it really is what it was though. I wouldn't have even said so at the time but, looking back on it, it really is a good expression of what I was feeling. I went—out of just sheer frustration—I wasn't really angry / I was just bewildered. I left Ashley sleeping in the crib or, maybe, she was in the infant seat or something in the living room. I don't even know what Dennis was doing, but all I remember is that I went into the bathroom in our bedroom / our master bathroom and shut and locked the door. It was a teensy little master bathroom—it had a tub, and a toilet, with a little tiny counter with a sink in the middle. I sat on the toilet. Then I got uncomfortable, and I sat on the side of the tub. Then that got uncomfortable, and so I sat on the toilet again. The walls started to kind of close in on me and I thought, “Oh, now what do I do?” I was just absolutely lost because I didn't know how to—I just didn't know how to do this thing. Finally, I came out. Thankfully my husband, in his love for me, did not go: “What an idiot you were! What were you thinking?”—you know, going in the bathroom and locking the door—“What was the point of that?” He didn't belittle me / he didn't make fun of me. He didn't criticize me. He, I'm sure, gave me a hug; and we sat down and talked.  Now, what it was all about—I can't even begin to tell you. What he said to me—I don't remember—but I remember the emotion of the moment—that I was lost. I didn't know how to do this thing called marriage, I didn't know how to do this thing called mothering, and I didn't know where to go for help. That was the first real sort of moment of awakening—when I realized this was all bigger than I could handle, and I needed something outside of myself to make it work. It was God's bringing me to this place of going, “You can't do this on your own.” Dennis: I think, as a husband—truthfully, I think I was clueless that she didn't feel that confidence. Barbara: Well, of course, you were! How could you know? Dennis: This was an internal battle she was fighting. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: So, when she did come out of the bathroom, I don't think I had realized that she had actually locked herself in there— Barbara: No; I'm sure you didn't. Dennis: —and had kind of run away from her responsibilities for a few minutes. I don't think you were in there—probably, an hour— Barbara: No; not more than an hour. Dennis: —but the point is—as a husband, at that point / however imperfectly you may love—but just allow your wife to express the inability and to express her need for something to change / something to be different for her to move forward.  I think marriage is an opportunity for us to finish the process of growing up. In fact, I think it was Erma Bombeck who used to say, “Marriage is the last chance God gives us to grow up.”  Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think it's one of the tools God uses in our lives to take us to the end of ourselves— Barbara: Yes. Dennis: —where He kind of puts an exclamation point at the end of the sentence that says: “You need Me! Signed, God.” Barbara: Exactly; exactly. Bob: But Barbara, you were a Christian—you studied the Scriptures, you were in church, you were— Barbara: Yes! That's what I thought! [Laughter] Bob: So, what was missing? Barbara: I think what was missing was an experiential understanding of my need for Christ. Yes, I knew I needed Christ when I received Him. Yes, I knew—had you asked me, an hour before I went into the bathroom and locked the door, “Do you need Christ?”—I would have said, “Of course!” But it was knowledge more than it was heart experience. God loved me enough that He wanted me to feel my need for Him—for me to experience that I could not do this on my own. I think God loves us enough that He wants to take it from merely head knowledge to heart knowledge. It was the process that God was beginning to work in my life, where He was showing me: “No, you can't do this on your own. Your knowledge of Me is not enough. You need to experience a need for the Holy Spirit to control your life—not just know it in your head that, ‘Yes, that's the way you're supposed to do it,'—but you need to be aware of your need for Me so you will, in fact, depend on Me.” Bob: Okay; so, you're aware of your need. Now, you're going to do something different than you were doing. What's that different thing? How does somebody come out of the bathroom and say: “Okay; I realize I need to rely on God, I need the Holy Spirit to work in my life; but what can I do to make that happen? How do I walk in the power of the Holy Spirit?” Barbara: For me, it was very much an on-going process. It was a growth that happened over decades. But, in that moment, as much as I knew how, in that day of my life, I said: “Father, I want to trust You more. I want to be filled with the Spirit. I want You to control my life. I want You to give me the power and the strength to live the way that You want me to live—to do this thing called marriage that You've designed. This was Your idea in the first place; so therefore, You know how to make a marriage work. I want to depend on You more than I have in the past.”  I believe that I did; but then there came another point, on down the road, where God said: “Okay; now, you need to step it up a notch. You need to trust Me some more,”— I was trusting myself again too much. There was another lesson; and then, a few years later, another one.  I think that, just as our children grow up, incrementally, through the years—they don't go from being a baby to being 18 overnight. Physical growth is a slow process. There are all kinds of little things going on in their bodies, as they grow up, that we can't even see. It does take a long time for an infant to become an adult. I think the journey is similar in our spiritual growth. We start out as spiritual infants. God gently and slowly works in our lives and our circumstances so that we become mature adults, spiritually, and don't remain infants. Bob: One of the areas where you had to learn to rely on the power of the Holy Spirit in your own life was when you decided you wanted to do a make-over project on your husband; right? Barbara: [Laughing] Yes, I did that. Bob: This was Extreme Makeover. Is that what you were—back before it was on TV—you were— Barbara: Yes.  Dennis: It felt that way! [Laughter] Barbara: Yes, it probably did. What is so sad about this story is that I really thought I was doing the right thing! I was a Christian and I thought: “Okay; if there are some problems”—and there were—“if there are some things that I think are not right in our relationship”—and there were those things that I thought weren't right—“What are you supposed to do about it? You're supposed to pray about it; aren't you? Yes, that makes sense.” I made this list—I began to make a list of all the things that I thought were not right—primarily were not right about him / not so much things that weren't right about me—because I really didn't think there were that many things— Bob: That was a small list / little, tiny list. So you're setting off to try to fix—what kinds of things were you trying to fix? Barbara: You know, that's what's sad—I can't even remember what they were—but I'm quite sure it was all personality related because, as Dennis said earlier—he would get an idea, and [snaps fingers] process it that fast, and he'd be off and running. He didn't think things through thoroughly like I did. He was much more spontaneous and spur of the moment. I'm sure it was related to these personality differences that I saw, early on. I made this list, and I thought that the right thing to do was to pray about all the stuff that needed to be changed in his life. Dennis: It was a long list too. Bob: Well—[Laughing] Barbara: It wasn't really that long. [Laughter] Bob: Is there something wrong with a wife identifying: “These are areas that I think God needs to be at work in my husband's life, and I'm going to pray about God doing that work”?  Barbara: Yes; I think it's probably not a real good approach.  Bob: Really?! Barbara: Really; because what happened to me is—I had this list of 10 or 12 things. I prayed about them every day. What happened was—I thought about them all day after I repeated them to God in the morning. I would say: “Okay, God. Here are the things I think You need to work on in his life.” It was as if they were written in neon block letters on his back. Every time I saw him, I saw what was wrong because I was reminding myself, every day——before God, of course—but nonetheless, I was reminding myself every day of what I didn't like and what I thought needed to be fixed. I decided—after doing this for a couple of weeks—I thought: “You know, I don't like the way this feels. This is not really a fun way to approach God.” It's not fun—the results in my marriage—I just didn't like the fact that I was constantly seeing all these things that I didn't like. Bob: [To Dennis] Did you have any idea there was neon on your back? Dennis: I think I did know about the list. Bob: Really? Dennis: I do, and I think I definitely felt it when she threw the list away.  Barbara: That doesn't surprise me— Dennis: Yes. Barbara: —because I felt it when I threw the list away too.  Dennis: I mean, all of a sudden, I've got my friend back instead of my judge. Bob: What prompted you to throw the list away? Barbara: I just began to realize that this wasn't fun. I didn't like focusing on everything that I thought was wrong with him. I thought: “You know, I didn't used to feel this way. I used to like all these things about him, and now I don't.” It wasn't this great revelation—I just thought: “You know—this isn't fun. I don't like the way this makes me feel. I don't like the flavor in our relationship.”  I told God specifically one day—and I remember saying this—I said: “God, if You want to change these things in his life, it is Your business. I am not going to ask You about this anymore because I don't like what this is doing to our relationship. If You never change him, that is fine with me. It's Your business, not mine. I'm going to move forward and not pray about all these things that I think need to be corrected anymore.” I tore up the list, and I literally threw it away. Within days, I wasn't thinking about all that stuff anymore.  Dennis: You know— Barbara: It was a great relief. Dennis: There's a common thread here—to what she's talking about—that I want Barbara to comment because this has been a theme of her life. You're talking about, first of all, coming to the end of yourself, not once, but on multiple occasions, where you realize you couldn't do this thing called “being a wife” / you couldn't do this thing called “being a mom”—and you couldn't change your husband. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: It's not you that's going to do any of this. You came to the conclusion that it had to be Christ in you and you yielded to Him. Barbara: Exactly. Dennis: What would you say to a wife, who's listening, who's going: “Got me!  I'm raising my hands, saying, ‘That's me you're describing'”? What's the hope? What's the solution?—not in terms of a formula—but what does she need to begin to practice? Barbara: I think the bottom line is going to be the same for the rest of your life; that is—when God brings you to a place that you realize you cannot do this thing called marriage, you can't do this thing called mothering, you can't even do the Christian life on your own—that you come to Him and you say: “I give up. I surrender. I need You. Will You empower me? Will you fill me with Your Spirit? Will You lead me?” because it really is coming to a point of giving up because what I was doing, when I was praying for you, is—I was trying to take over.  I was trying to tell God what I thought He needed to do in your life. I realized that I needed to give up. I need to let God do what He wanted to do, in His timetable. I basically—in essence, by saying, “I'm not going to do this anymore,'—I surrendered and I said, “Your will, not mine.” Bob: You know, just about every time I speak at a Weekend to Remember® marriage getaway—first night, I'll say, “If you brought your spouse here, hoping that together we could get her fixed or get him changed, I have bad news for you.” [Laughter] I say, “I'm not even going to be talking to your spouse this weekend. The only person I came here to talk to is you.” I think sometimes— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —rather than focusing on, “God change this other person,”—  Dennis: Yes.  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —our prayers need to be redirected: “Lord, change me.” Barbara: Exactly. Bob: I had to chuckle, Barbara, because, at the end of this “Note to Your Daughters,” as you shared this story—you said, “More stories about my failures to come. [Barbara laughing] Love you, Mom.” Really, this collection of letters that you've written to you daughters are lessons you've learned—  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —some of them through not doing it right. Barbara: Oh, lots of them learned through not doing it right because I think that's when God gets our attention. When we're sailing along, and everything's smooth, that's when we don't think we need God; but when we realize we can't do it, and we're making mistakes, then we go, “Okay; then maybe—maybe I need some help— Bob: Yes. Barbara: —“and God needs to be my help.” Dennis: —“and Jesus is that help.”  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: If the story of Easter is true—and it is / Christ is alive from the dead—then He can make this claim—He said in John 15, “I am the true vine.” Later on, in the same passage, He says, “As a branch cannot bear fruit by itself,”—does that sound familiar? Bob: Yes. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: “You can't do it on your own!”—“As a branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in Me and I in him, he it is who bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.” If you've come to the end of yourself, it's a good thing! Barbara: It is—and that's what God was trying to show me through this story and many, many other circumstances in my life. He was saying: “Apart from Me you can do nothing. Do you get it?” Dennis: And I think life— Barbara: And I said, “Yes!” Dennis: And I think life is one long process of Him saying, “Do you get it yet?” Barbara: Yes, it is. Dennis: “Do you get it now?” [Laughter] Bob: And one long process of surrender because we keep doing it, as you said, over and over again. I think, in addition to the surrender then, there needs to be godly counsel that helps point us in the right direction—to help us correct the patterns that are the patterns of the flesh that are with us and point us to new habits, that are spiritually-informed and spiritually-motivated. Barbara, I think you are helping to provide the wise counsel for a lot of wives in what you've shared today and what you've written in your brand-new book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. We've got the book in our FamilyLifeToday Resource Center. It's brand-new—just now out in stores. We'd love for you to have a copy. Go to FamilyLifeToday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Ask about the book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife by Barbara Rainey when you get in touch with us. We want to say a quick, “Congratulations!” and “Happy Anniversary!” to our friends, David and Diana Aguilar, who live in Union, Missouri. Today is their 29th wedding anniversary. The Aguilars listen to KSIV, out of St. Louis. They've been married since 1987.  We are the “Proud Sponsor of Anniversaries,” here at FamilyLife. We're celebrating our 40th anniversary this year; but honestly, it's not our anniversary that matters—it's all of the anniversaries that have happened because of how God has used FamilyLife in the lives of so many couples over the last 40 years. It's been humbling to be a part of that whole process. If you help support this ministry, as a Legacy Partner or as somebody who gives an occasional donation, you've been a part of the process as well. Your support is what makes FamilyLife Today possible. We could not exist and could not do what we do if it weren't for friends, like you, who help make this happen. This month, we are praying and asking God that He would raise up 20 new families in every state where FamilyLife Today is heard to be new Legacy Partners, joining with us here at FamilyLife. Would you consider being one of those new Legacy Partner families? All you have to do is go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click where it says, “DONATE.” The information about becoming a Legacy Partner is available there. Or call: 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY”; and say, “I'm interested in becoming a Legacy Partner.” Be sure to join us back tomorrow. We're going to continue talking about a wife's responsibility in her marriage. We'll talk tomorrow about what happens when a woman wants to be a helper but it starts to go bad—and it can do that. We'll talk about that tomorrow. Hope you can be here. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. 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FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Being His Helper Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                                                        From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 3 of 3)                Bob: The Bible calls women to be helpers to their husbands; but as Barbara Rainey points out—sometimes, when you're trying to help, you're not helping. Barbara: I think, in most women's hearts, we do start out—in the early years, especially—genuinely wanting to help. It switches somewhere, along the line—to becoming a control issue, to becoming a management issue, to becoming a critical issue—where I am being his mother and not his helper. I'm being his parent and not his partner. I think that is the lesson—it's that we, as women / we, as wives, need to be aware and to recognize when it does and to say: “Oh yeah! I need to be his friend. We're peers, we're equals, we're teammates; and we can work this out together,” rather than it—letting it become this great obstacle. Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, February 17th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. How can a wife be a helper to her husband?  1:00 We're going to explore that today with Barbara Rainey. Stay tuned.   And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I had somebody share something with me a long time ago. I always thought this was interesting—they were talking about the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our life. They were saying that the word for the Holy Spirit in the Bible is the word, Paraclete. Dennis: Right. Bob: What they said was: “There's a difference between a paraclete and a parasite. A parasite is something that attaches itself to you and just sucks the life out of you.” Dennis: Right. Bob: “A paraclete is something that attaches itself to you and pours life into you.” I mean, that's always stuck with me. I've thought, “That's not only true of our relationship with the Holy Spirit—He does attach Himself to us and pours life into us—but all of our relationships tend to be parasite or paraclete relationships”; don't you think? Dennis: They do. It's interesting—  2:00 —that in the Scripture, God refers to Himself as our Helper. I think the Holy Spirit is our Helper. Bob: Yes. Dennis: He comforts us / He gives us the power to live the Christian life. Bob: Jesus said, “I will send another Helper,”—indicating that He had been the Helper. So Helper really—God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit—are all identified as “Helper.” Dennis: That's right; but if you go all the way back to the beginning of the Bible, the first use of the word, “helper,” is not referring to God but referring to the woman that God made for man. Bob: Yes. Dennis: I know, for Barbara, who joins us again on FamilyLife Today—Barbara, welcome back. Barbara: Thank you. Dennis: She's written a book that is—was first written for our daughters, as they married, and our daughters-in-law as they married our sons. One of the first sections of the book talks about the role of being a helper. You believe that's important; don't you? Barbara: I do. I think that we have come to think of helper in a more negative sense——more as a servant.  3:00 Yet, when you go back to the very beginning—as you were just talking about a minute ago—and realize that God used that term to describe the woman / to describe Eve when He made her. He called her helper before the whole thing broke down and fell apart in the Garden. It wasn't Plan B—it wasn't: “Oh, well; now, that you've made mistakes, and I'm kicking you out of the Garden, and you're going to have to start living in a different place—now, you have to be the helper,”—it was helper from the very beginning.  If we really focus on that, and think about that, it means that I was made, as a female, to be a helper—I was built for that, I was fashioned for that, I was designed for that. It's not a second thought / it's not Plan B—it's not an afterthought. It's intuitive in who I am, as a female, to be helper in the same way that God is helper to us. Bob: You say, in the book—when you got married, you say, “I was eager to begin being my husband's helper; but beyond cooking for him and doing our laundry, I honestly had no idea what the concept / the assignment really meant.”  4:00 Barbara: Yes.  Bob: I think there are a lot of women who, when they hear the term, “helper,”—they think, “What is it if it's not cooking, cleaning, and laundry?” Barbara: Those things are a part of what each individual couple works out—who does the cooking / who does the laundry. All of that is a creative blend of the two that are in the marriage unit. And often— Bob: Who does the cooking at your house? I'm just curious— Barbara: Well, you know, right now, he does! [Laughter] Dennis: But for the past 35 years, she did! [Laughter] Barbara: Yes. Bob: You've given— Dennis: So I've got—I've got a long time—[Laughter] Barbara: I delegated! [Laughter] Dennis: —I've got a long time to catch up in this deal. Barbara: Yes; yes. We have traded places on that one; but the point is—is that, oftentimes and through the centuries, most women have done those tasks in the marriage relationship. That isn't really what helper is all about. Helper is far greater than that—it's me completing my husband.  5:00 It's me—and who I am, and the way God made me, as a woman and as an individual—completing him, making him better than he is on his own or making him more complete / more fulfilled. It's me helping him, though the years, become all God intended for him to be. It's far more of a person-building / it's far more of a relationship-building concept than it is just tasks around the house, which is what we've relegated it to. Bob: The phrase I used—the paraclete—to attach yourself to him and pour life into him. Barbara: Yes. Bob: There really is something that a wife can—she can pour life into her husband; can't she? Barbara: Oh, absolutely. That's why I have written about it in this section—about the example that the Holy Spirit is to us because the Holy Spirit does give us life. I think, in ways that we, as women, don't realize—we give life to our husbands. I think the analogies between the two are great. Bob: You're not saying your role is to be the Holy Spirit to your husband. 6:00 Barbara: No. [Laughter] I am not to be the Holy Spirit, and convict him of sin, any more than he is to be Jesus Christ for me. But we model— Bob: But you can learn; yes. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Yes. Barbara: —he models and imitates what Christ did in His sacrifice—and I can model my helping and being a helper after what the Holy Spirit does for us. Dennis: Before we talk about what it means to truly be the helper, one of the things you believe strongly that it's not—is it's not being your husband's mother. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: Explain what you mean by that. Barbara: I think what happens is—when we women have children and we become, not just wife, but wife and mother—there are a lot of things that we do, as mother, that are helping tasks. We're constantly helping our children get dressed, we're helping learn to tie their shoes, we help them learn to read, we help them with their homework, we help them get dressed, we help them in relationship issues when they've got friends and they've got problems in elementary school, junior high, and high school.  7:00  We are very much a helper with our children, but it's an authoritative kind of helper. I'm the one in charge, and my child is to follow me. What happens so often in marriage is—that we wives forget sometimes to switch from being helper as mother to being helper as wife—and they're very different. I'm not an authority with my husband / I'm not his teacher. For me to help him as if I am his teacher and he is to be my pupil—that's backwards / that's wrong. That's not the kind of relationship that I'm supposed to have with him as a helper. Bob: And you're supposed to be able to switch gears on the fly on that kind of a deal? Barbara: Yes, I think so; but that's where it gets tricky. [Laughter] Bob: So what does it look like if it's not the kind of helper you would be with a kindergartener or a seventh grader? How is it different? Barbara: It's different because I have a peer-relationship with my husband—we are equals. I am not a peer with my child—I'm an authority with my child. That's the fundamental difference.  8:00 For instance, Dennis and I had a conversation not too long ago. I don't know if you'll remember this—but we recently remodeled our living room. We got our couch recovered—because the kids are gone, we got it recovered in a very light color fabric, which I would have never done when we were raising kids. Now, that it's just the two of us—we can handle this. Not long after we had finished the remodeling, we had gotten the couch back from being reupholstered. We were eating, and Dennis wanted to eat in the living room. He plopped down on the couch— Bob: I know where this is going. [Laughter] Barbara: —with his plate. Bob: Yes! [Laughter] Dennis: Never happened at your place; has it Bob? Bob: It wasn't spaghetti; was it? I hope it wasn't spaghetti. Barbara: No, it wasn't spaghetti—I don't know what it was. As we sat there, I'm thinking: “This isn't going to work. This isn't what I had in mind. I don't think this is a really good place to be eating our dinner.” We began—we had a conversation; and I said, “What would you think about always eating over there at the table?” He said, “I really would like to eat and watch TV some.”  9:00 Anyway, the point is that we talked through: “Where would be an acceptable place for him to eat, in the living room, where he could watch TV—watch a football game on Saturday afternoon.” We decided the couch is not where he would eat. He would eat over there in the chair—it's on a part of the carpet that doesn't stain as easily as the part in front of the couch does. Dennis: Actually, what she encouraged me to do is run— Barbara: So are you saying you don't remember it this way? [Laughter] Dennis: —run an extension cord outside and eat it in a lawn chair in front of the TV in the yard. [Laughter] Barbara: Where there is a hose! [Laughter] Bob: You didn't put a bib on him or [Laughter] say, “You sit in this chair.” Dennis: We were just talking about being a mother; were we not? Barbara: That's right; we were! Bob: That's what—so this is an illustration of how you help your husband? [Laughter] Barbara: Well, it's an illustration of how I—yes, how I help him [Laughter] eat like an adult— Dennis: We worked it out. Barbara: We did! Dennis: We worked it out, and it is okay. I do think the point is—if you listen carefully to the illustration Barbara gave, we had a discussion. Barbara: —as peers.  10:00 I wasn't telling you that you couldn't eat on the couch—I said: “Would you be willing to eat over there?” / “Could we work out a compromise?” was the gist of the conversation. Dennis: What I'd want a man to hear in the midst of this is that he has a very important assignment—to respect his wife, and her opinion, and her values, and what she's about at that point—not just do what he wants to do. Philippians 2—we've quoted that many times, here on FamilyLife Today: “…not merely looking out for your own interests but for the interests of others.” Bob: Yes. Dennis: These little confrontations we're talking about here are a clash of values. They don't have to turn out and become where the wife ends up being the mother of the husband. Bob: You tell about, how in your marriage—when you are travelling, back in the days before cell phones— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —you used to mother your husband in the airport? Barbara: Yes. You know what's interesting about this dilemma for women is—I don't think we start out with that kind of an attitude.  11:00 I think we genuinely/sincerely want to help. It just sort of evolves into a more parental attitude without even trying. For instance, in the airport, when we used to travel before cell phones, Dennis would always want to make good use of his time. He'd walk across the area to another gate—wherever there happened to be a pay phone—and he would start making phone calls. I would sit in the waiting area and watch as every last passenger boarded the plane. They were about to close the door, and he was still on the phone. Initially, I remember thinking: “He must not know that they're boarding the plane. He must have not been paying attention.” I would get up and go over, and motion at the gate, and motion at my watch. He'd go, “I know; I know.” He'd get off the phone, and we'd get on the plane. Then the next time I would do the same thing. After a while, I started to become irritated because I thought, “I have to remind him all the time.” Dennis: How many flights have we missed? Barbara: Well, that's the point!  We never missed a flight because you were on the phone! [Laughter]  12:00 But initially, I genuinely thought he didn't know what time it was and that he didn't—he was so engaged in the phone call that he didn't realize they were boarding. I wanted to help so that we didn't miss the flight. Over time, it became more of a parental attitude on my part. Dennis: I was going to say—I was going to say that—parental. Barbara: It really was because I thought: ‘What's the deal? Why can't he get off the phone, and we can board with everybody else?” Then I started becoming critical. So my point is—is that I think what we struggle with, as wives, is not necessarily starting out with a condescending attitude or a parental attitude. We really, genuinely want to help from our hearts; but it just sort of goes downhill sometimes. Dennis: Let me take that, as an illustration though, and just ask this question: “How can a wife, in a situation like that, be a true helper?” The point here is—you're not going to answer that question in the heat of the moment. You do it some other time when you're not travelling.  13:00 The wife just simply says to her husband, “When everybody's boarding, what would you like me to do?” Barbara: Exactly—which is what I finally did. Dennis: “Would you like me to come over and let you know, or am I to just trust you with that?” At that point— Barbara: Yes. Dennis: —it is two peers respecting each other—and the husband feeling like he's being trusted.  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: He may—as I did—he may want her help. Bob: Yes. Dennis: Okay? That's good! You're working as teammates at that point. I think, at critical times like this—we allow these little rough spots like this to become major disagreements—at which we have a big argument and it ends up ruining the trip. Bob: As I read through this part of the book, I have to confess to you that I think one of the challenges that I think a lot of wives / a lot of women struggle with is the issue of control. Barbara: Yes; definitely.  Bob: “I want to be in control of my environment. I feel safer if I'm in control of things.” Barbara: No question; no question.  14:00 Bob: So this impulse to want to be a helper—sometimes is not, “I want to help my husband,”—it's: “I want to manage my husband— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —“and control my husband because I feel more comfortable.” You're waving and saying, “Everybody else is boarding,”—not because you're trying to help him—but because you're getting nervous, and you'd like to get on the plane. Barbara: Yes. Bob: And he needs to hurry up and get on there with you. Barbara: No question. Bob: It's not helping—it's controlling.  Barbara:And that's why I'm saying it's a difficult thing because I think, in most women's hearts, we do start out—in the early years, especially—genuinely wanting to help. It switches somewhere, along the line—to becoming a control issue, to becoming a management issue, to becoming a critical issue—where I am being his mother and not his helper. I'm being his parent and not his partner. I think that is the lesson is that we, as women / we, as wives, need to be aware—that that shift happens—and to recognize when it does and to say: “Oh yeah; I'm being his mother, not his partner.  15:00 “I need to be his friend—we're peers, we're equals, we're teammates—and we can work this out together rather than letting it become this great obstacle. Dennis: So for wives—as they look at the subject of being a helper to their husbands—here's the question I would encourage every wife to ask her husband: “Sweetheart, how can I be a better, customized helper to you?” because I really believe, Bob, if we could somehow zoom back and look at an individual marriage through God's eyes—I believe He's made the husband and the wife for one another. He made them with differences—with unique strengths, and abilities, and weaknesses—so they need each other and so they complement each other. I think many couples can live a lifetime and never ever understand how the wife— specifically: “In what areas / how can she be a customized helper for her husband?”—  16:00 —and then take good notes at what he says. Barbara: Well, and that's what I—one of the points that I really am hoping will come across in this book to my daughters—I want them to see the beauty that God has made in marriage—that the way I help my husband is different than the way Mary Ann helps you, Bob—   Bob: Yes. Barbara: —different than the way my daughters will help their husbands because my husband needs something different than you would need. That's the wonderful thing about marriage. God gave us very few rules for marriage—He gave us some guidelines to run on / some very specific things in Scripture—but He didn't give us a hundred things to do in marriage. He gave us very few. Within that wonderful definition of marriage that we get out of Scripture, there is endless ability to be creative because we are two unique people. God wants us to design a unique relationship between the two of us. 17:00 Bob: Okay; I've got two questions. The first is: “There are some wives who are hearing this and going, ‘Well shouldn't this thing work both ways? I mean, why am I the helper? Shouldn't he be the helper to me too? Aren't we supposed to help one another?'” You're talking about teammates—so you're the helper, but he's the helper too; right?  Barbara: Yes; I think Dennis should answer that, but I think the real bottom line is—is that God has called men to serve. In that serving—of the husband serving the wife—that's how he helps. He's not given the title of helper, but he's given the title of servant-leader. That's how he would help his wife. Dennis: Yes, I think Barbara mentioned the key term there—servant-leader. A husband is given the title, in Ephesians 5, “head,”—he is the authority. The buck does stop with him. He has responsibility to deny himself, to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and to be—as Barbara said—a servant-leader of her and meeting her needs. I don't think a husband—in the sense of what we're talking about a wife being a helper—is to be his wife's helper.  18:00 I think he's to be—the servant, the lover, the leader, the nourisher, the cherisher of her soul, and to look out for her best interest, and her horizons, and maximize her life—but he's got a different assignment— Bob: Yes. Dennis: —with her than she has with him.  Bob: Well, in fact, I was meeting with a group of guys recently. We were talking about this designation of servant-leader. We all kind of agreed that maybe it would be better to refer to husbands as shepherd-leaders than servant-leaders because the servant idea can—can almost make it sound like: “As long as your wife's happy, you're doing what you need to do.” That's the trap I fell in, for years—was to think, ‘As long as Mary Ann's happy— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —“then I'm—I'm being what God wants me to be.” It's not necessarily her momentary happiness that I should be focused on— Dennis: No, it's not. Bob: —it's the shepherding and leading of her—wisely, gently, carefully, feeding, guiding, caring for her. 19:00 Dennis: —protecting. Bob: That's right. So it was a—it was a helpful metaphor— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —to say: “A man should be a shepherd-leader and a wife should respond and should help in that process.” My other question, though, for you is for the wife who would say: “If I went to my husband and said, ‘How would you like me to be your customized helper?' he would say, ‘Get off my back and leave me alone! Just let me do what I want to do.'” Dennis: But that's not a good answer. Bob: So does she tell him that?! Barbara: Well, I think she frames the question a little differently. I think she says, in a particular situation—like, when Dennis and I were travelling, I could have said to him, “Is there anything I can do to help you so that we can get on our flight on time?” rather than some generic question that he might not be able to put words to. It'd be much better if she said, “How can I help you when we are…” or “…when this situation happens?” or “How can I encourage you when you've had a bad day at work?” If she will be specific, then she might get a more specific answer that would be easier for her to perhaps know what to do with. 20:00      Bob: But if he says, “Just leave me alone,” how does she respond to that? Barbara: I think she needs to say: “What do you mean by leave you alone? What do you want me to back off on?” I think—if she really, genuinely wants to be a better helper—then she needs to ask some follow-up questions / find out: “What does he mean by that?” Bob: Yes. Dennis: I think, over a lifetime together, this is a great question to interact about. In fact, we'd been married for 38 years before the thought ever occurred to me. I was talking to Barbara about her book—just to explore a little bit: “What have we learned in our marriage about how you are a great helper to me?” One of the areas she is—is she's a wise counsellor.  Bob: Yes. Dennis: She gives me the perspective that I most count on for my life, from a human perspective. Now, I go to the Bible for my guidance and to guide in prayer; but she's my closest friend—knows me well, looking out for my best interest in multiple ways.  21:00 I go to her for her advice, her counsel, and her perspective. She is a great— Bob: Yes. Dennis: —helper in that area. I think, for a man, if he can just pull back and ask—if you've been married 10 years: “How is your wife a great helper to you? How do you see her having been designed by God to help you?” Another way for Barbara is—and I told her this—she brings great beauty to my life. She's an artist—she likes design / she notices things years before I do. [Laughter] Then she points them out and I enjoy them. Because of her in my life—not only is she beautiful—but she brings beauty to my life and an appreciation for the aesthetics that God has created. Bob: She keeps the sofa looking beautiful, too, by assigning you a place to sit. [Laughter] Barbara: Now Bob, I didn't assign now— Dennis: —in the yard!  Barbara: —we agreed! 22:00 Dennis: —in the garage, with the hose! [Laughter] Bob: The thing is—this is a part of the reality of marriage that you guys have, after more than 40 years of being together—you've figured out how to make all of this work. Barbara—now for you to be speaking into the lives of younger women / younger wives—I'm really excited about the book that is now available: Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife by Barbara Rainey. You can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com in order to request a copy of the book, or you can call us at 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the title is Letters to My Daughters by Barbara Rainey. Order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call us at 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” By the way, I should have you give the shout-out today to some friends of ours, Keith and Mary Kirkland, celebrating their 15th wedding anniversary today.  23:00 They live in Montgomery, Alabama—listen to WLBF. Mary is a big fan of the resources you've created for homes in the Ever Thine Home collection. They've got the Easter banner, they've got Adorenaments, they've got your “Behold the Lamb” resource—I mean, she's got a bunch of stuff in her home, and they're friends of this ministry. They've helped support the work that FamilyLife Today is doing. If it weren't for friends, like the Kirklands, FamilyLife Today couldn't do all that we do. We're listener-supported, and your donations make this ministry possible.  During this month, we are hoping that God would raise up, from among our listeners, 20 new families in every state—who would be brand-new Legacy Partners—monthly donors, supporting the ministry of FamilyLife Today. We'd like to ask you to consider being one of the families in your state helping to keep FamilyLife Today on the air in this community.  24:00 You can become a Legacy Partner by going to FamilyLifeToday.com. Click the link that says, “DONATE,”—the information's available there—or call 1-800- FL-TODAY and say, “I want to become a Legacy Partner.” We hope to hear from you. We hope you can join us back tomorrow when we're going to talk about what's at the heart of being a godly woman. Priscilla Shirer is going to join us, and we'll talk about a godly woman's priorities tomorrow. Hope you can be here for that.  I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Embracing the Differences Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                    From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 1 of 3)  Bob: Engaged couples often look at one another and think, “We're so much alike!” Then, after they have been married for a little while, they look at each other and think, “Who are you?!” Here's Barbara Rainey. Barbara: What happens when we're engaged—we tend to think: “Oh, we're so much alike. We love each other so much—we'll never have clashes.” I think one of the first difficulties for most young couples is they're caught off guard by these differences. They don't know what to do with them—they go from being cute and attractive to being downright ugly or frustrating. All of a sudden, what was cute isn't so cute anymore; and you think, “Now what do I do?” Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, February 15th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. So what advice would you give to young wives and their husbands about the adjustments we make in marriage? We're going to hear what Barbara Rainey has to say about that today. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I am really enjoying learning lots of new things about you, Barbara. Dennis: You're eavesdropping. Bob: Well, it's legitimate eavesdropping because of what your wife's been writing about. This has been so much fun to read. [Laughter] Dennis: I think I want to welcome her to FamilyLife Today—Sweetheart. Barbara: Maybe we don't; huh? [Laughter] Dennis: This is my bride, and she has plenty of stories to tell. Bob: And she has just recently—by the way, welcome, Barbara—nice to have you here. Barbara: Thank you, Bob. Bob: You've been collecting these stories, not to share with the world your stories, but really to mentor—you've become an e-mentor; haven't you? Barbara: Yes. I'm really writing this for six women / six young women, who happen to be my four daughters and two daughters-in-law—to share with them the lessons that I've learned over all these years of marriage in hopes that it will encourage them, and give them hope, and help them—help them persevere for the long haul. 2:00 Dennis: But it actually started—back to Bob's point about—from an e-mentoring standpoint—really started on the internet— Barbara: It did. That's right; I had forgotten. Dennis: —as you were writing emails to your daughters and daughters-in-law so that you'd be able to coach them / encourage them in the process. Bob: Did you start doing this right after Ashley got married? Barbara: No; actually, it was after our two boys got married. They got married the same summer—the summer of 2001. One of those two girls asked me if I would give her some advice on being a wife. I thought: “Wow! She really wants my advice?” I thought, “If she cracked the door open a little bit, I'm going to just walk right on through while the door's open!” I said, “Sure, I'd love to!”  I began writing a series of letters in the fall of 2001 to my two brand-new daughters-in-law and to my daughter, Ashley, who, by then, had been married four years. Bob: A lot of—a wife will hear you say that and they'll think, ““Boy, if somebody asked me, I wouldn't know where to start or what to say.”  3:00 But it sounds like you were ready to dive right in with wisdom. Barbara: Well, I don't know that I would say it that way, but I was ready to dive in—in the sense that I felt like, “Now was the time,” because all new brides are extremely teachable—they're eager, they want to learn, they want to do it right, they don't want to make mistakes—they really love this guy they just married. They're most teachable and most coachable in those early years. I wanted to begin by sort of exploiting that—in a sense, in a good way—by saying: “Here are some things that I learned / here are some lessons I learned along the way. Here are some stories of what we went through / what I've learned from it. Perhaps, it will be helpful.” Dennis: Over the years, we've—who knows how many hundreds of Weekend to Remember® marriage getaways have been held by FamilyLife—we've looked into the eyes of those in attendance.  4:00 It does seem that the engaged couples and the newly-marrieds are, not only on a steep learning curve, but they're much more teachable and kind of spongy in terms of soaking in the truth. What we wanted to do—and what I encouraged Barbara to do with this book—is take advantage of a window into the soul to speak a lot of relevant truth that she's learned, as a woman from the Scriptures and from other older women who have coached her, and really help these young wives get started on the right trajectory.  Bob: They didn't ask you about a specific subject. They just said, “Help me be a wife.” How did you know, “Okay; I'll start here”? Barbara: Well, what I did is—I just thought back to those early days in our marriage and tried to remember: “What were the lessons that I learned? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?” Bob: Like that early romantic date that Dennis took you on? Barbara: Yes, like that one. Bob: Tell our listeners about—[Laughter] Barbara: You like this; don't you? [Laughter] 5:00 Bob: —how ““Prince Charming” swept you off your feet. [Laughter] Barbara: Yes. While we were dating in the summer of 1972, which was of course in the dark ages—one Saturday / it was probably on a Friday afternoon Dennis asked if I wanted to hang out on Saturday afternoon. I said, “Sure.” He picked me up in his— Bob: Now, let me interrupt you just so we get a context. Barbara: Okay. Bob: You guys had been friends for years— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —since college.  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: Right. Bob: [To Barbara] After college, you went to the east coast and worked with Campus Crusade. Barbara: Correct. Dennis: University of South Carolina. Bob: [To Dennis] Where did you go? Dennis: I was in Dallas/Ft. Worth area, working with high school kids.  Bob: You kept up your friendship—  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —but there was nothing romantic between the two of you. Barbara: No, nothing romantic. We had been really good friends for three years. I really thought of Dennis as a brother—he was just a great, great friend. Dennis: She showed up in Dallas and needed to be shown around—kind of where everything was / kind of how you get around—so I'd pick her up, take her to work. Bob: Now, were you thinking of her like your sister at this point? 6:00 Dennis: Yes, I really was. It was not romantic—it really wasn't—which is really a cheap shot on your part—[Laughter]—to call out this thing that I took her on as a romantic date because we were just hanging out! Barbara: That's right—we were. Bob: Was this before—this date we're about to talk about—was this before or after you had tried to hold hands with her in the parking lot? Dennis: Way before. Barbara: I have no idea. Dennis: Way before. Bob: Really? Barbara: I would think so—yes. Dennis: Oh, yes; oh, yes. Bob: Okay. Barbara: I would guess. Bob: It's just friends: “Hey, do you want to hang out tomorrow?” Dennis: Yes. I'd take her back to her apartment, and we'd kind of sit on the stairs and talk— Barbara: Yes. Bob: Just visit. Dennis: —until about 2:00 in the morning—[Laughter]—just like a couple of friends. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Yes. Barbara: Yes. [Dennis laughing] Bob: Okay. So he says, “Do you want to hang out tomorrow?” and he comes and picks you up. Barbara: He did.  Bob: Did you know where you were going? Barbara: You know, I don't remember—it was too long ago. I don't remember if I knew or not, but I knew it was casual. I knew we were going to go on a picnic. He took me to some remote place outside of Dallas/Ft. Worth— 7:00 Bob: Now wait. I've got to stop you here. You're taking her on a picnic. You're not taking your buddy—“Let's go hang out,”— on a picnic. There's more going on here in your mind [Barbara laughing] than just, “Let's hang out together.” Dennis: She needed to understand where the riverbanks were— Bob: Alright.  Barbara: Like I really care! Bob: We understand one another here; okay. So he picks you up? [Laughter] Barbara: Yes. We take off to parts unknown because I'd never really been in Texas in my life. I didn't know where we were going, but I trusted him. We show up at this stream, or river, or pool of water, or something—I don't know where it was! Dennis: I don't know where it was—it was below a dam somewhere. Barbara: Gosh; I couldn't begin to tell you. Dennis: It was murky / it was fishy-smelling. It was a great date! Barbara: All I know is he pulls out a fishing pole—fishing rod / fishing thing—I didn't know what a fishing thing was! [Laughter] Oh, how funny! Bob: One of the things you observed or learned, when you shared this story with your daughters—it was really to talk about the fact that, in relationships, you've got to make some adjustments and be ready for the fact that you're two very different people. Barbara: Exactly; because after we married, about three months later, we moved to Colorado.  8:00 In Colorado, there was abundant fishing.  Bob: You married three months later—after the fishing date? Barbara: Yes! Dennis: You caught up on that small detail. [Laughter] Bob: I just thought our listeners ought to be aware. [Laughter] It went from zero to sixty. Dennis: I'm a man of action, Bob. Bob: This was a sports car relationship. [Laughter] So, from the day you said, “Will you…” to the day you said, “I do,”— Barbara: —was six weeks. Bob: Six weeks? Barbara: Six weeks. Bob: You said, “I'll be the Fish Queen for as long as we both shall live.” [Laughter] Dennis: Then, on our honeymoon, I took her camping and trout fishing. [Laughter] We need to get to the point of the book though—she's talking about how we, as men and women, are different. Barbara: That's right. Dennis: I mean, we did start out our marriage—really, not polar opposites—because we enjoyed one another. Barbara: Yes, we had a great time; but, had you asked me what I would have pictured for the early years of our marriage, I would not have pictured traipsing around in the mountains—  9:00 —fishing, and camping, and all of those things—because none of that was a part of my background, growing up. They were totally brand-new experiences. I learned, by those experiences, that marrying someone is merging together two vastly different—not just personalities—but life experiences. As Dennis used to say, all the time, “It's like merging two countries.” Bob: Yes. Barbara: Because we are very different, as men and women—we're very different in our life experiences / our outlook—everything is different. So those early years are years of discovery. What you do with what you discover sets the tone and the foundation for your marriage. Bob: Obviously, we're talking to Barbara Rainey, who is joining us today on FamilyLife Today. We're talking about the wisdom that you want to pass on to younger women—specifically to your daughters—about being a wife. You've just written a book called Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. 10:00 What are the big ideas that you want to pass on to your daughters in this area of marital differences? Barbara: First of all—the first big idea is that there are going to be differences. It‘s normal to be diametrically opposite on all kinds of fronts. Because what happens—when we're engaged / and dating but then engaged—we tend to think: “Oh, we're so much alike, and we love each other so much—we'll never have clashes. Yes; if we do, we can handle them. We love each other so much that it's not going to be difficult.”  I think one of the first difficulties for most young couples is they're caught off guard by these differences. They don't know what to do with them—they go from being cute and attractive to being downright ugly or frustrating.  Bob: Yes. Barbara: All of a sudden, what was cute isn't so cute anymore; and you think, “Now, what do I do?” Bob: We have this tendency to think different means wrong. Barbara: Wrong; yes. 11:00 Bob: “This is the way I think; and it's the way I think naturally. So I must be right; and if you think differently, we need to fix you so you think like me.” Barbara: Yes. Bob: That's part of the awakening and adjusting that both wives and husbands have to do in the early stages of a relationship; right? Barbara: Exactly; because that's one of the beautiful things about marriage—is how it broadens our perspective. I write about that in telling these stories about fishing. I knew nothing about fishing; but because of who I married, the horizons of my life have been greatly expanded and broadened. I could have either fought that, and resisted that, and said: “I don't want any part of that! That's foreign to me. I don't like it”; but by embracing who he was, and his differences as a person, my life is much richer because of that.  I think, if we can encourage these young wives—and husbands too / but this is for the wives right now—to welcome those differences as an opportunity to grow as an individual, it will make it easier. Dennis: I like what you wrote in your book here— 12:00 —you said: “These new realities created some minor earthquakes in my life—rumblings that shook my familiar, comfortable foundation. I was discovering that we were not as much alike as I'd originally thought. We were opposites who were attracted to one another but found ourselves, like magnets, that repel each other.” And then she goes on to write about how I would make a decision compared to how she would make one.  Bob: Yes. Dennis: I'd see something that needed to be done or something I felt like we ought to go do—I'd process at the speed of light and off we'd go.  Bob: Right. Dennis: Barbara, on the other hand, processes a little slower. In fact— Barbara: —a lot slower. Dennis: —a lot slower. Barbara: Is that what you were going to say? Bob: A little more thoughtfully—with a little broader perspective. Dennis: I've been enriched by that, but I promise you—if, early in our marriage, we had set up war with one another in two separate bunkers.  13:00 You could easily have built a case between two very different people, who had started out their marriage together, but now really can't get along and don't see one another—as we teach at the Weekend to Remember marriage getaway—as “God's perfect gift for you.” Bob: You describe how you began to approach these differences in your marriage. You call it the “Bookend Principle.” Barbara: Yes. Bob: Explain what that is. Barbara: The Bookend Principle is something that Dennis and I practiced with one another; and then, after the fact, sort of came up with the name for that. What we have done through the years is—when we've had disagreements over our differences or conversations trying to understand one another—we would say to each other: “I love you, and I would marry you all over again. This may be hard, this may be confusing, this may be difficult—it may not be fixed in a single conversation, like we would always like; but that's okay. I love you and I'm committed to you, and I would do it all over again.” 14:00 That statement of reaffirmation of our vows and commitment to one another provides a level of security to continue to have these discussions about our differences. I think it's a good habit. It was a good habit for us because you can get so caught up in how different we are—and how his differences grate on me or make life difficult for me and my differences make life difficult for him—that you can subtly switch to becoming enemies rather than allies. Bob: Were there times, or events, or evenings when you weren't sure you loved him and you weren't sure you'd marry him all over again? Barbara: No. There were times when I didn't feel loving—without question—but I never got to the place where I thought, “This was a big mistake,” because I knew that God had called us to marry each other. I knew that we were doing what we were supposed to do. So, therefore, if this was God's will, and it was, then He would enable us to figure it out with time. Bob: That issue was settled. Barbara: Yes; “Done.” Bob: That wasn't open for reevaluation— Barbara: No. Bob: —reexamination— Barbara: No. Bob: —re-discussion.  15:00 At some point—when you stood and said, “I do,”—the ships were burned. You weren't going to reconsider whether— Barbara: I think that's the mistake too many young couples are making today—is they get into it, and it becomes difficult—instead of saying, “We can work this out,” they say, “Gosh; we must have made a mistake.” They move to, “This is a mistake, and maybe there's a way out,” rather than, “We can find a way through this / we can make it work,” and stick with it for the long haul. Dennis: I look back on our marriage. I don't remember ever entertaining the thought. And I mean by entertaining—I'm talking about cultivating the thought that I'd made a mistake. I do wonder, looking back on it—this Bookend Principle of kind of starting out with a commitment that says, “I love you,” and then maybe, in the midst of an argument or after the argument has been exhausted, you say again: “I'm committed to you. I'd marry you all over again.”  16:00 It creates a safe place for two imperfect, very different people to hammer out their relationship together. I think we're an instant culture that is not used to having to take a lifetime to achieve this thing called “oneness.” What we were doing, back then—we were going through some very hard ground. I mean, it had not been plowed before—two very independent people—who had joined together in marriage, and who did rub one another the wrong way, and who, in their differences, missed each other over, and over, and over again—and, as a result, mis-communicated, disappointed, hurt one another. How do you maintain a relationship in the midst of that if you're not committed?   Bob: I think it's important because we can laugh about fishing dates, and whether you like fishing or not; but a lot of folks, who are listening, are going, “Look, our differences are not around whether you like fishing or not— Barbara: Yes; exactly. 17:00 Bob: “Our differences are around core, fundamental, deeply-held issues in life. The fact that we're miles apart on this—I just don't know how to live with a husband / or a wife who does not embrace what's dear to me at the center of my being.” Barbara: Yes. That is a very difficult place to be. Even though Dennis and I never really had a crisis quite to that depth, we missed each other plenty of times. There are seasons in a marriage when it's very dry and when there doesn't feel like there's much life. I would have to say that: “There is hope. There's always hope, as long as we have breath, that if you are committed and you are teachable—both of you are teachable—and you hang in there, there will be a solution, given time.” I think that we expect too much too quickly. We would like to have it happen quickly—I would like to have it happen more quickly too, but that's just not the way of a marriage.  18:00 A marriage is slow, steady growth over a long length of time.  Dennis: If you go back to Genesis, Chapters 2 and 3, the way God commands a marriage to start is He commanded a man and a woman to leave father and mother. He commanded them to cleave to one another / to be committed to one another. And third, He commanded them to receive one another—to receive the other person as God's gift for you. If you practice those three concepts—leave, cleave, and receive—over, and over, and over again—if you practice that in your marriage / especially, in the early years—it doesn't mean it's ever going to be easy. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: I asked Barbara how she would summarize our marriage. I was kind of hoping for “romantic,” [Laughter] “chill bumps”— Barbara: —“wonderful.” Dennis: You know? But instead, you said? Barbara: “It's been hard.” Dennis: “Hard work.” Barbara: “Hard work”; yes. 19:00 Dennis: Lots of hard work. I think a lot of young couples—and for that matter, older couples—are starting out marriages today not really expecting it to be as challenging and to demand perseverance like it does Bob: I just have to come back around here because you're right in this section of your book that—not only did your marriage start off with fishing—but through the years you've learned to enjoy hunting with your husband? [Laughter] Is that true? Barbara: Well, not by his definition; no. Not by— Dennis: I was waiting for the answer to that question. Bob: I'm going to read to you what you wrote. Barbara: Okay; okay. Read what I wrote. Bob: “And I have learned to appreciate hunting.” Barbara: Yes, “appreciate it.” Bob: Maybe “appreciate” is a better word than— Barbara: “Appreciate” is a better word. Yes Bob: “I actually went with him on an elk hunt a few years ago— Barbara: Yes. I did. Bob: — “with the camo, the face paint, and the human scent killers sprayed on my body.” Barbara: [Laughing] I did! Barbara and Bob: “Aren't you impressed?” [Laughter] Bob: That's what you say right here: “Aren't you impressed?” [Laughter]  20:00  “We hiked and hiked and snuck up on a herd of elk hiding behind trees like clandestine spies following a double agent down a dark alley in Eastern Europe. It was really fun!” Barbara: It was fun! [Laughter] Bob: But the point is that we're going to face these differences in the first years of our marriage.  Barbara: Yes. Bob: Some of them crop up ten years in—fifteen. It's a life-long process of understanding “We're different,” and making those adjustments. Barbara: Exactly. That really is the point that I'm trying to make with these girls—is that the differences are there—they're not to be changed and they're going to be there for life. I think we somehow assume, early on, that a lot of this stuff is going to subside, or change, or moderate; but who we are is who we are.  I'm just amazed at how little really changes over time. You either fight it, and resent it, and resist it, or you join and learn to actually enjoy it and appreciate it.  21:00 Now, do I love to go hunting? No. I enjoyed that because it was active. We were hiking in the mountains, and it was beautiful. Dennis: And it was warm. Barbara: And it was reasonably warm; yes. But the kind of hunting that he is often inviting me to go on—which I have refused—is the kind where you get up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, in the winter, and you go sit. You can't talk / you can hardly breathe, and it's freezing. [Laughter] Hiking in the mountains—we could talk as we went—until we actually saw the elk / then we had to be quiet. It was a much different kind of experience so I could appreciate that one. But sitting in a deer stand—I've done it once and I'm not real interested in going there again. Bob: The point is—you don't have to be interested in going there again to make your marriage work. This is a part of the dance. One of your chapters in your book, “Marriage Is Like Beautiful Dancing”—  22:00 —“Part of the dance is understanding what we do together and where it's better to leave each other some space and some time to do things apart.” Barbara: Yes. Bob: I just think you have given some real great practical wisdom to a lot of wives in what you've written in your book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. It's brand new, and you can go to FamilyLifeToday.com to request your copy. Or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and ask for the book, Letters to My Daughters, when you get in touch with us. Now, as both of you guys know, this is our 40th anniversary as a ministry—2016. All year long, we are celebrating anniversaries. Today, we want to congratulate Abigail and Angelo Pinheiro. They live in Princeton, New Jersey. They listen to FamilyLife Today on WFIL. They're celebrating 21 years of marriage today. “Congratulations!” to the Pinheiros—“Happy Anniversary!”  23:00 We'd love to help you celebrate your anniversary this year. In fact, if you will go to FamilyLifeToday.com and leave us your anniversary date, we'll have some suggestions for you this year on how this year's anniversary can be the best anniversary ever. It's all because we are the “Proud Sponsor of Anniversaries.” There are a lot of anniversaries that have happened over the years because of how God has used FamilyLife in people's lives for 40 years now. Thanks to those of you who make FamilyLife possible. We're listener-supported—we depend on your donations in order for this ministry to exist. This month, we're hoping that God might raise up, in every state where FamilyLife Today is heard, 20 new families who would join us as Legacy Partners. We're asking you—if you're a regular FamilyLife Today listener / if God's used this ministry in your life: “Would you be one of the families in your state to help support this program?”  It's easy to do—go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the button that says, “DONATE.”  24:00 There is information there about becoming a Legacy Partner or about how you can make a one-time gift to FamilyLife Today. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also call and say, “I'm interested in becoming a Legacy Partner.” We'll explain the whole process to you when you call 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”  Now, tomorrow, we're going to talk about the spiritual foundation in a marriage and how important that is. Barbara Rainey will be back with us. Hope you can be here as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2016 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. God's Got Your Back Guests:                      Dennis and Barbara Rainey                       From the series:       The Art of Parenting: What Kids Need (Day 1 of 3)  Bob: When you have a newborn or there are toddlers around the house, it's easy to get focused on the day-to-day and forget what the long game is in parenting. Here's Dennis Rainey. Dennis: Children are God's statement that the next generation must take our place. What we must do is impart to our children the truth about God, the experience of God, and also the gospel of God—how they can know Him—that's our assignment. Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, September 5th. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Okay; let's pull back and look at the big picture: “What is it that we are supposed to do, as parents, as we raise the next generation? What's the priority? What's job one?” We're going to talk about that today. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. I think I've heard you say—I don't know if you've called it a mistake or not—but you said something about the fact that you wrote a book on parenting teenagers before you were done parenting teenagers. Dennis: One of the big mistakes— Bob: Okay; I just wanted to make sure. I didn't want to put words in your mouth. [Laughter] Dennis: —of our—of our lives.  Barbara joins us. Would you agree, Sweetie? Barbara: Well, it was rather brash, I think, to write on parenting when we hadn't finished. Bob: The truth is—it's a great book. The concepts in the book are solid, and I've referred to it many times as we were in the process of raising our kids. Dennis: And we paid the price for many of those lessons, Bob; but we were not done raising teenagers. [Laughter] What we had to do, on numerous occasions, is go back and rip pages out or reread what we've written. Bob: Well, now, here we are—and you have finished the process of raising your children—  2:00 —and you decided, “Okay; now, it's safe to write a book on parenting,”—right? Dennis: We did. This is something that I've wanted to do—actually, we've wanted to do since we were a part of starting FamilyLife®, all the way back to 1976. Barbara and I had been working with high school students nationwide, and we saw the need and really wanted to make an impact on teenagers and the next generation. The way we did that was by helping people stay married / have a good marriage; but also, ultimately, one day, I wanted to get to this topic of equipping parents to know how to do—not just marriage God's way—but do parenting His way as well. Bob: Barbara, I'll ask you; and then I'll ask you as well, Dennis. If you could only speak or write about one or the other— Dennis: Oh, you're going to do that to her? Bob: —marriage or parenting? Barbara: Oh, that's a terrible question. [Laughter] Bob: If I said, “For the rest of your life, you have to either talk about parenting or you have to talk about marriage,” which would you pick? Dennis: I think—I know the answer. 3:00 Barbara: Well, I think I would have to say marriage, because not all couples have children; and if you don't get your marriage right, you can't get parenting right. So I would say marriage over parenting if I had to pick one—if you're going to force me. Dennis: And I thought she would have said motherhood. Barbara: That wasn't an option, though! [Laughter] Bob: Well, that's parenting. Barbara: I'm very precise. Laughter] Bob: Being a mom and raising kids has been a passion of your life. Barbara: Well, yes; and I loved being a mom; I loved raising kids. It really was—it was stressful; it was hard, but it was rewarding. It was what I felt like I was made to do in those years that I was doing it. I was very engaged, very committed, very involved—reading things all the time—trying to improve, trying to be a great mom, trying to give my kids what they needed; so I was very invested. Bob: If you had to pick?—marriage or parenting—and that's all you could talk about / write about. Dennis: Well, here's the thing.  4:00 I have to answer the way Barbara did, because that's where we have been focused over the past 41 years—we have been focusing on marriage. We have done a lot of parenting work—we've written a lot of books on parenting; we've had a conference that we created on parenting, which we mothballed until recently, Bob. You know that we're finally getting a chance to roll this out—a parenting conference in a box, which is a small group kit to help folks know how to do the art of parenting, which is also the name of a book that Barbara and I just completed as well. We've been wanting to get after this and do this for some time; and I'm excited, because these are some of the best days for FamilyLife to help families that have ever existed over four decades. Bob: You have shared this story with our listeners before, but there's a story from when you were raising your kids that kind of gets to the heart of the parenting issue; doesn't it? Dennis: It does.  5:00 Our daughter, Deborah, came to me one time—do you remember how old, Sweetheart, she was? Barbara: No; but I would guess 13/14—early teens. Dennis: Yes—just in that age that kind of knows it all, you know. She came and she said, “Dad, I want to be able to do what I want to do, with whoever I want to do it with, whenever I want to do it, for as long as I want to do it.” I said, “Really, sweetheart?!” [Laughter] I said, “What if your parakeet came to you,”—and the parakeet's name was— Barbara: —Sweet Pea.  Dennis: Sweet Pea—“Sweet Pea came to you and said, ‘I want to be able to do whatever I want to do, with whoever I want to do it, for as long as I can possibly do it,' and Sweet Pea said to you, ‘I'd like to go out on the porch and play with the cat.' What would you say?” She said: “Oh, Dad! That's silly!” Barbara: “That's dumb.” Dennis: “That's dumb.” Barbara: She was disgusted with him. Dennis: She was. And I said: “Here's the thing.  6:00 “God's given you parents to help—not cage you up—but to create boundaries that protect you. Sweet Pea doesn't need to play with the cat.” It was just the beginning of the teenage years for Deborah; in all fairness to her, in some form or another, all six of ours asked a question very, very similar to that. Bob: Well, every adolescent asks that question. You asked the question— Barbara: Well, even if they don't verbalize it, they feel it; and it's what they want. Bob: It's this emerging independence—we want to call the shots—all of us felt it; so I'm not surprised that Deborah felt that way, but she did not respond well to the Sweet Pea analogy that you used. Dennis: No; and God, in His sense of humor—God is so mischievous, and I mean that in a holy way—not evil—just holy mischievous. [Laughter] He has a way of getting our attention.  Not long after that, we had the opportunity to travel, as a family. We needed to find someone that would take care of Sweet Pea, so we got a nearby family to take care of our favorite parakeet.  7:00 Barbara: So a family down the street that we knew well—some of our kids matched up and they played together—we called them and asked them. They said, “Sure,” they'd be delighted to. But we couldn't make the handoff occur before we left, so we left Sweet Pea in the cage in the house. They came by later that day—after we'd left town, gotten on our plane, and flown off—to pick up Sweet Pea, and keep the bird for the week, and get the bird feed and everything. One of the younger kids in the family was tasked with the responsibility of taking care of the bird that week. He was going to earn a little money by doing this—we were going to pay him. So anyway, they came to the house, got the bird, got the parakeet cage, and the food and everything, and they were walking out to their car.  It was January, too, by the way, which is an interesting piece of the story; because, as they walked from our front door to their car, the tray on the bottom of the parakeet cage came unhooked.  8:00 It dropped open; and the bird saw his chance at freedom, and dropped through, and took off flying up into the trees. He got his freedom sooner than expected. Bob: I can only imagine those parents in your front yard, looking at the parakeet in the tree and going, “What do we do?” Barbara: I know. Yes; my friend's name was Jessica, and she just was panicked. She went, “Oh my.” So they tried to coax it down. They put food in their hands and offered food, you know, trying to get the bird to come down; and nothing worked. They tried for nearly an hour, and the bird was in the tree and was not coming down. Dennis: So, we're away on our trip when we get the phone call that the parakeet had flown the coop, literally; okay?  We tried to time the telling of the story to Deborah— 9:00 —when it would perhaps be a little bit of a shock absorber—but there was no good time to tell her. This completely bummed her up. Bob: Yes. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: I mean, the rest of the trip was miserable. Well, how long passed, Barbara? Barbara: Just a couple of days—say we got home on a Friday; maybe on Monday morning our neighbor, who lives up the hill—he called. Dennis had gone to work; it was about ten or eleven in the morning—the kids were off at school, and I was home alone. He called and said, “I have something really interesting I want to ask you.” He said, “Do you guys have a parakeet?” I said, “Well, we did have a parakeet.” He said, “Oh, okay.” He begins to tell me this story about how he found Sweet Pea, and I was so amazed that the bird had survived. Bob: Wow! Dennis: He found Sweet Pea where? Barbara: Well, that's a part of the story. [Laughter] I called Dennis and I told him—I said, “Our neighbor has Sweet Pea.” He said, “You're kidding.”  10:00 Deborah was not happy; so I wanted to go get her at school, and pull her out of class, and tell her. Dennis said, “Don't you dare go tell her.” He said, “We need to make a big impression on her about what happened and how God spared this parakeet for her.” I said, “Okay; great”; so I didn't go tell her. Dennis: What happened was—Bob, our neighbor, was watching TV, and he heard a thump on the window. Bob just walks out, sticks his finger up in the air, kind of horizontal to the ground, and Sweet Pea flies right down to it. Barbara: He turns around and walks in the house, carrying the bird. Dennis: Well, that was how we would get Sweet Pea to land on us, just put the finger up horizontally and let the bird fly down. So he put Sweet Pea in a spare cage that they had— Barbara: They just happened to have a cage! Dennis: —and went to town to get some parakeet food. Barbara: Yes; and so while he was in town to get parakeet food, after he got what he needed at the pet store, he stopped at a yogurt place on the way home. It was real busy, so he had to stand in line. Bob's very chatty/very conversational, so he started talking to the guy in front of him.  11:00 As they were talking, the guy said to him, “So, what are you doing today?” Bob said, “Oh, I had to come into town to get parakeet feed for this bird that I found.” The guy said, “Well, where do you live?” Bob told him where he lived; and the guy said, “Is that anywhere near the Raineys?” Bob said, “Yes; I live next door to them.” The guy said: “Oh. I'm the kids' youth pastor.” He said, “I think they have a parakeet,” because Bob had said—for this parakeet that he found—he had no idea where it had come from. Dennis: That's 15 miles from where we live— Barbara: —that yogurt store; yes. Dennis: —the yogurt place. Bob: Wow. Barbara: Bob goes, “Oh, well maybe that is where it came from.” When he called Monday morning, he was confirming, “Do you have a parakeet that is now missing?—because if you do, I have it.” Dennis: I told Barbara—I said, “After dinner, let's just drive the point home with Deborah.” After dinner, I just stopped, and I looked at Deborah, and I said [emotion in voice], “Deborah, God really loves you.” 12:00 Barbara: And she was still not happy. Bob: Yes. Dennis: No; not happy at all. She wouldn't look at me. I said: “Deborah, look at me. God really loves you.” She still wouldn't look. I said: “Deborah, God loves you. Bob, our neighbor, has your parakeet.” Well, at that point, two things happened. First of all, our daughter, Laura, had been sitting with her head— Barbara: Well, the very first time you said to Deborah: “I want to tell you something. Can I tell you that God really loves you?” Laura piped up and said, “Do I have to listen to this?” [Laughter] Because she knew that her dad was about to talk to her sister about something— Bob: —some story. Barbara: —some lesson, because she was not happy. [Laughter] She's thinking: “This isn't about me. Why do I have to be here?” So she said, “Do I have to listen to this?” Dennis said, “You do have to listen to this,” and Laura went, “Ooh!” Dennis: So, at the point I told Deborah that the parakeet was up the hill with Bob— 13:00 —Laura screamed and said, “What?!” And Deborah slowly— Barbara: Yes; like an ice cube. Dennis: —almost imperceptibly, at a point, began to smile.  Barbara: She was real skeptical—she said, “Really?” Dennis: Yes; we walked up— Barbara: All four of us marched up the hill to the neighbors'— Dennis: —reclaimed the bird, put Sweet Pea back in her home, and all was well. But we just said, “Deborah, God really loves you and is looking out for you.” Bob: So, do you think Deborah every tied together the moral of the story?—that you don't let the parakeet out of the cage? Barbara: —to go play with the cat? Bob: —to go play with the cat? Dennis: You know, I resisted—[Laughter]—giving the moral of the story! Bob: I'm a little surprised! Are you a little surprised that he resisted? [Laughter] Dennis: Keith, our engineer, is surprised! I mean, it was so obvious; it was just so obvious. 14:00 Barbara: Well, it was so obvious that it was God—because it was January; the parakeet had been outside for over 24 hours; it was really cold—so that it actually survived the night, and then showed up at our neighbors' and banged on his window and not ours, where nobody was home—I mean, so many things.  And then, that Bob would run into that youth group guy—I mean, Bob never went to church. He didn't know where we went to church. I mean, it was so obvious that God was all over this story that I think we knew that somehow this was going to sink in; somehow—whether we said anything or not—it was just too big for her to miss it. Bob: So, the moral of the story for parents is: “God has your back”? Dennis: Yes. Bob: Is that it? Dennis: Yes. Barbara: Yes; that is it. Dennis: I mean, you know, Deuteronomy 6 comes right after the giving of the Ten Commandments; and right after those commandments are given, God commands the parents of Israel—  15:00 —He says, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and you shall teach your children to do the same.” Parenting is God's idea; He loves our kids more than we do. As parents, so many times we feel so helpless; but God does care about our kids. Now, He may not do it in our timing; but He does have a way of getting our children's attention, because, really, children are God's statement that the next generation must take our place. What we must do is impart to our children the truth about God, the experience of God, and also the gospel of God—how they can know Him. That's our assignment, Bob; and that's really why Barbara and I wrote the book, The Art of Parenting. We want to call a generation of parents—and there are some 16 million millennial parents right now—another one million have been added this past year—who are raising their kids according to some kind of plan.   16:00 The question is: “Is it the best-selling-book-in-history plan?—is it the Bible?” What we want to do—and what we've done in the book—is break down the Scriptures and give folks some very simple, practical ways—but biblically-anchored—of how to raise the next generation. Bob: I have found that parents, who are interested in parenting material—whether it's a video series, or a book, or even what we're talking about on the radio—if it's focused on parenting, they tend to be new parents who are aware that they're in over their head; because it doesn't take long, after you've had a child, before you go, “Oh, I don't know everything I'm supposed to be doing.” By the time parents are raising teenagers, I think a lot of them think, “Well, if we haven't gotten it by now, there's no hope for us.” You wrote this book with new parents and parents of teens in mind—  17:00 —this is for everybody who's still in the midst of trying to raise their kids; right? Barbara: Exactly. If you still have children at home, even if it's one who is 17, there is something for you in this book; because it's never too late. That's one of the big messages that we want to send—that: “It's never too late to impact your kids for Christ. It's never too late to make investments in their lives for things that will last forever.”  We feel it more acutely, I think, with newborns, and toddlers, and preschoolers; because it's so new and fresh; and we're so acutely aware of what we're missing. We're much more worn down when our kids get to be teenagers, and it's easy to give up. But God doesn't want us to give up, because He's always available and wants to intersect our kids' lives at any stage so that we come to Him. Bob: But you know parents, in the midst of the teen years—they get exhausted / they get discouraged—they think, “If we haven't figured it out by now, it's helpless for us to figure it out.” 18:00 Dennis: That really is a lie. We know the feeling—we've experienced that feeling. In fact, yesterday, Barbara talked to one our children—adult children—who has a teenager or two, and our daughter was discouraged. Just going through the teenage years had just sapped her strength and her courage. What we want to do, Bob, is—we want to give parents courage to hang in there / not quit.  Basically, what we've broken parenting down into are really four areas. Number one: relationships—relationship with God and with one another. That's our assignment—to train our kids to know how to relate to God properly and also how to get along with human beings.  Secondly, character—that's the Book of Proverbs—being wise and not a fool; choosing right and not wrong. That's a big part of being parents today—equipping children with boundaries. The third area is identity.  19:00 Listen to me—there is identity theft taking place today that is far more important than somebody stealing your credit card. There is a sexual identity theft, a spiritual identity theft, and also an emotional identity theft that we talk about in the book to help parents know how to raise kids, who reflect who God is. Finally, there's a child's purpose—that's their mission. We believe a child was designed by God to be raised and then released—released toward the bull's eye on the target that God has for them. If you're not sending your child to that destination on purpose, the world does have a plan for your child; and it's not a good plan. Bob: These four areas you came to after spending months poring through the Scriptures to say, “What does the Bible say about parenting?” Dennis: Actually, years, Bob; because I spent the better part of one year studying the Scriptures, and Barbara and I would talk about it.  20:00 But over the next 25 years, we confirmed it. Over, and over, and over again, these four areas really were distilled down into the essence of what God's trying to do in our lives. One last story before we're done here. In writing the book, we had to decide how to start the book. We asked Deborah for permission to tell this story, and we were at the Creation Museum with 13 of our grandkids and 5 of our adult children and their spouses. We had a little time each evening where Papa—where Papa would have a little lesson for the kids of what they'd seen at the Ark or what they'd seen at the Creation Museum. I said, “I have a little story I'd like to read.” I pulled open the manuscript on my computer and I began to read this story. Deborah's two daughters were in the room—they were all ears.  21:00 They were listening, because—one's about ten and the other's about six or seven—and they're just nearing that time when they're going to want to go do whatever they want to go do, with whoever they want to it with, for as long as they want. Deborah was just grinning, because she's a great mom and is doing a great job at those kids. Bob: Well, and hearing you tell that story—and then thinking about what Deborah shared as part of the Art of Parenting™ video series—some of her comments are priceless. I know some of our listeners have had a chance to start going through the Art of Parenting series. It's available as a free online video series for folks to go through. A lot of people are getting the small group kit and planning small groups for this fall, where they can go through this content. 22:00 And of course, your book—we're expecting it any day now, here, at FamilyLife®. If our listeners would like to pre-order, they can go online at FamilyLifeToday.com; or they can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and get a copy of the brand-new Art of Parenting book from Dennis and Barbara Rainey. Again, you can order, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com. That's where you can also get information about the Art of Parenting course, online, or about the small group kit; or you can call if you have any questions: 1-800-FL-TODAY is our number—1-800-358-6329—1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” We're going to be talking about parenting tomorrow night. For those of you who are FamilyLife Today Legacy Partners—remember that tomorrow night, at 7 o' clock Central time, you'll be getting a phone call from us. You'll be a part of an event, where we can interact together—you can ask questions.  23:00 It's going to be kind of a big town hall meeting—a virtual parenting Q&A session that we'll be doing.  Dennis and Barbara will be here; FamilyLife's new President, David Robins, and his Meg will be here; I'll be here as well. We'll be talking about everything from screen time to discipline. If you have questions you want to ask about parenting, be sure to join us for the Legacy Partner Connect event tomorrow night at 7 o' clock Central time. Again, you'll get a phone call if you are signed up for the event. If you're a Legacy Partner, and you're not signed up for the event—or if you'd like to find out about becoming a Legacy Partner and join us for the event—call 1-800-FL-TODAY and say, “How do I get in on that parenting phone call tomorrow night with Dennis and Barbara Rainey?” This just a part of the way that we want to say, “Thank you,” to those of you who are regular supporters of this ministry as monthly Legacy Partners. All that we do, here, at FamilyLife Today we couldn't do without you. In fact, if you're listening to FamilyLife Today, and you've benefitted from this program, you really have our Legacy Partners to thank for all of this—they make this program possible.  24:00 So on behalf of our regular listeners, I want to say to our Legacy Partners: “Thank you for partnering with us, and we hope to talk to you tomorrow night.” And we hope you can all be back tomorrow when we're going to continue our conversation about parenting with Dennis and Barbara Rainey. We're going to talk about job one: “What is the big picture assignment for us, as parents, as we raise our children?” I hope you can tune in for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru® Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com  

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Keys to a Healthy Marriage Guest:                         Barbara Rainey                    From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 1 of 2)  Bob: Barbara Rainey likens intimacy in marriage to a secret garden—a place that only a husband and wife go together. She says it's a risky place.Barbara: It is a place of raw exposure. It is a place of being real with one another. It is the place where we are most transparent in our marriage relationship, so we need the walls of a commitment. Both of us need the security and the comfort of knowing that we've got a perimeter around our marriage much like a rock wall around a secret garden. We need that commitment to be in place.Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Monday, February 6th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey. I'm Bob Lepine. We'll talk today about how a husband and wife can work together to cultivate the secret garden of their marriage. Stay with us.1:00And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. It's been almost a year now since the release of your wife's book, Letters to My Daughters. We're finally getting around to Chapter 6— Dennis: You've got— Barbara: —which rhymes with—[Laughter] Dennis: —you've got a cheesy grin on your face. Bob: You—you know, Chapter— Dennis: The listeners can't see your face! [Laughter] Bob: —six!—six. If you replace one letter in “six,” you get an idea of what we're going to be talking about— Dennis: Well— Bob: —today. Dennis: Barbara's book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife, has flown off the shelf. It's really doing well. I understand why, because I think this is Barbara's best book ever. It is certainly a very honest look at our marriage. I want to welcome her back to the broadcast. Thanks for coming back in, Sweetheart. Barbara: I'm happy to be here. Dennis: I know you are. Barbara: Yes. Dennis: I know you are. Since we're going to talk about s—s—s— Bob: Sex. Just say it—sex. Dennis: Chapter 6. Barbara: It is not that hard for you to say! [Laughter] 2:00 Bob: You've heard him say it before?  Barbara: I don't think it's that hard for him to say! [Laughter] Dennis: I just want to pray for our audience; because as I was preparing to come in here, reading Barbara's book, I thought: “You know? Oh my! How broken are we as human beings—how many different perspectives we come at this subject.” There are some listeners who've been hurt deeply by their past choices and some are in present relationships. I just want God to intervene and minister to—whether they're single, married, divorced, single parents—I just want to ask God to meet every person where they are:  Father, You made us, male and female. There is no surprise in terms of how we function. You made us to merge together and become one.  3:00 Yet, what You designed, man has degenerated and has twisted. You know that as well.  You know where each listener is, who is tuning in to our broadcast today. I just would ask You to be gentle with each of them. Use these broadcasts, I pray, to minister to them just where they are. Produce some hope, some help, and some encouragement to each person listening. For the guys, who are listening in, Father, I pray that they might listen with some understanding. We tend to be too quick to judgment on this subject. I pray for all of us just to be wise in terms of what we hear and what we apply. In Christ's name I pray. Amen. Bob: Amen. Barbara this is a subject that obviously is personal—it's intimate—it really does get to the core of who we are as human beings. It can be threatening for a lot of people.  4:00 I was very interested—as you invited your daughters and daughters-in-law to ask questions about marriage, the first question you got related to this—I'm just going to read it from the book——it says: “So yeah. Sex. You gave me “the talk,” and we had our pre-wedding conversation that was pretty short and hurried. No offense; it was busy. I get it. But now I'm married. And it's um…different. Fine. FINE. But, well, I have to ask this…what's the big deal?” I thought that was an interesting question from a daughter to say, “I'm in the midst of it, but I'm not sure I understand why it's as big a deal as people say it is.” Barbara: It's a great question. You know, it was one that I just had to think about a lot. Actually, I had to think about all these questions a lot because, as Dennis prayed, this topic—this part of our marriage relationship—is not easy.  5:00 It's not simple. It's not cut and dry / it's not black and white. It's very complicated; and even though it's very good, it's very complicated. My short answer to “What is the big deal?” is that it takes a long, long time to understand what God has built into us, as men and women. It takes a while to understand the purpose of sex. It takes a while to undo things that we've brought into our marriage. It just takes time. I think, in our culture today, more than in any other generation, we expect instant results in every area of our lives. We're so used to having instant access to information. We just don't know how to wait—we don't know how to persevere. We don't know how to have patience.    I think, in this area of marriage, our expectation for change to happen quickly and for results to be mastered fast, is a misplaced hope; because I think, in the long run, the goal of marriage is a marathon—  6:00 —it's a lifetime race. Figuring out why it's a big deal takes a lot of time. It's me getting to know my husband, as a man, and him getting to know me, as a woman. That isn't going to take place quickly. Dennis: If you go back to Genesis, as it describes two people becoming one—there was a progression that God declared. He said, “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, shall cleave to his wife and the two shall become one [emphasis added].” One of the problems, Bob—and many of our listeners may be experiencing this right now—we have reversed the order. Bob: Yes. Dennis: We're trying to become one without the leaving and the cleaving—the commitment that really bonds two broken human beings hearts to one another and gives you the only chance of two broken people experiencing marriage for a lifetime, as Barbara was talking about here.  7:00 Bob: Barbara, explain to our listeners why, for a wife / for a woman this issue of a solid commitment is so critical when it comes to intimacy. Barbara: In the book I tell the story of a book that we used to read when our kids were growing up, called The Secret Garden. It's the story of a young woman / a young girl, who grew up in a huge manor estate in England. As she was growing up there, she discovered this garden; and it was a secret garden. It had walls all the way around it that were six to eight feet tall, brick or stone walls. As she dug though the ivy, she found a door. The door was locked and she couldn't get in. Over time, she began to continue to dig around. One day, she found a key and was able to unlock the door and go in.  I use that story in the book because I liken this area of our marriage—this intimacy / this sex in our marriage—to a secret garden.  8:00 It's a place that only a husband and wife go together—no one else is allowed. It is for them only. I think the reason commitment is so important is because it is a place of raw exposure—it is a place of being real with one another—it is the place where we are most transparent in our marriage relationship. We need the walls that that secret garden had. We need the walls of a commitment. We need that security, as women in particular, but men need it as well for us to experience what God intended for us to experience in marriage. Both of us need the security and the comfort of knowing that we've got a perimeter around our marriage much like a rock wall around a secret garden. We need that commitment to be in place. Bob: You're talking about something that goes far beyond just the biological experience of intimacy— 9:00 Barbara: Absolutely! Bob: —because the biology may not need that, but the oneness we're talking about here— Barbara: Correct. Bob: —really requires that we can trust one another— Dennis: Yes. Bob: —in order to be vulnerable with one another. Dennis: In fact, Bob, I think what you're hitting on here is so important. I think one of the least understood passages in Scripture—there's a reason why we can't understand it—Genesis, Chapter 2, verse 25. I'm going to read it and then I'm going to explain why we don't understand it—it says, “And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.” That verse comes right after the leave, cleave, and become one. The reason we can't understand what that means—we have never experienced what Adam and Eve did in the garden before the fall. Barbara: That's right; yes. 10:00 Dennis: Two people, totally naked, totally exposed, totally transparent with one another—and there was no shame. There was joy / there was delight—there was the experience of God and one another—there was no hiding in a marriage back then.  When it comes to the subject of sex, I think we're trying to get to that point of being naked and unashamed; but we don't know how to get there. So a lot of single people are co-habiting—they're thinking they can experience the sexual delights of marriage without the commitment— Bob: Right. Dennis: —and they can't! Barbara's talking about a commitment that creates safety around this garden. Bob: There is something about being able to say: “You're safe. I'm not going anywhere. Barbara: Yes. Bob: “I will not expose what happens here. You can be who you are and still be loved.” That's what we long for— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —and that is what is supposed to be going on in intimacy in a marriage relationship. 11:00 Barbara: That's what we get married for—we get married to be loved unconditionally. That's our expectation and our hope when we say, “I do”; but we don't realize that it's not just the physical oneness that produces that. It's all of the conversations—it's learning to be, as Dennis just said, naked and unashamed. That does not happen quickly. If you'll think about what happened in Genesis—after that verse where Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed—and then, when the fall happened, what was the first thing that Adam and Eve experienced?   Bob: Their shame. Barbara: Their shame and they were afraid. Bob: Yes. Barbara: I think we vastly underestimate the fears that we bring into marriage. All of us come into marriage with fears, even if we don't have past experiences that were negative or were difficult. We still have the fear of rejection; we have the fear of exposure; we have the fear of being known—  12:00 —just the question, “If you really knew me as I am inside—as I know I am inside—would he still love me?” A man thinks the same thing, “If she really knew what I thought—if she really knew who I was—would she still accept me?”  I think that fear—that we all bring into a marriage—takes time to expose those fears because it's a risk to do so. It takes time to work toward that place of being unashamed. It doesn't ever totally go away, because it won't until we go to heaven; but we can make great progress / we can make great strides in that comfort level that we all long for when we get married. Dennis: That's exactly right.  I have to use a present-day illustration, Bob, of something that really makes me sad—but immediately after the evening news / the local news here, there's one of these Hollywood reports. It always is telling of some breakup of some Hollywood marriage.  13:00 I really feel a great deal of compassion, because they don't understand the God who made this relationship and how He made them to function. In their lost-ness, they're just trying to reach out to one another and experience that oneness and experience the intimacy of a great relationship.  But I've got to tell you—Barbara and I have been married 44 years—and there have been a lot of incredible highs and sadly, some tough, tough lows. The thing that has kept us safe and secure in our relationship is we've never/ever used the “D” word—divorce. It has never crossed our lips. We have used the “C” word—covenant-keeping love for a lifetime. In the process of doing that, two imperfect people are wobbling their way to the finish line, attempting to represent how God designed marriage to proclaim His love to the world; because a marriage is to be a model of Christ and the church.  14:00 It is representative of a husband who loves, serves, leads, and gives his life on behalf of his wife—and a wife who supports her husband and loves him back. One of the ways they both do this is through the gift of sexual intimacy in marriage. Bob: Barbara, I had to smile when I read this letter from your daughter, saying, “So, what's the big deal?” for two reasons. One is because there is a stereotype that says: “This is how women view sex in marriage.” Men are very different. I stop to think to myself, “Would a man ever write to his father, ‘So Dad—' Barbara: “What's the big deal?” [Laughter] Bob: —“'What's the big deal? We're married now. I don't get it—what's the big deal?'” I also smiled because there's a sense in which the mystery of marital intimacy— Barbara: Yes. Bob: —is just beginning to unfold in the early days of marriage; right? 15:00 Barbara: That's a word that I use a lot in my book—is the word, “mystery,”—because I think it helps us be more at peace with the process. When we realize that marriage is a mystery—that we will never, totally understand it—because, as Dennis just said, it is a picture of Christ's relationship with us. Just accepting the fact that marriage is a mystery kind of gives you a sense of: “Ah! I can rest. I can relax.” It is a mystery and it is a process of beginning to discover what God has built in this, all along, from the very beginning. As we've been saying, it's about getting to know one another and being transparent with one another. Dennis: When we think of a mystery, we think of an unsolved murder case or a crime. Bob: —a puzzle. Dennis: Yes; exactly. This mystery is going to be revealed—[Laughter] —in heaven, in eternity, with Jesus Christ and the church at the wedding feast of the bridegroom and the bride—the church being the bride.  16:00 In between time, between now—this thing called “time”—and eternity, here you are, as a couple, hammering out your commitment and attempting to be naked and unashamed in a way that honors God. It's tough, and it's hard. I would ask you, Barbara, as a young wife might come to you—what would you say is the most important thing she needs to know as she approaches this most intimate area of the marriage relationship? What does she need to know and do? Barbara: I think the first thing she needs to know—and she may already know this—but I think it bears repeating—and that is that marriage is holy. I think that when we see it as—not just a gift, not just a privilege, not just something we get to experience—but there is an element of marriage that has a holy aspect to it; because God created it and because He lives in our lives, there is a holiness there.  17:00 I think that helps us put it in right perspective—it helps us go: “Well no wonder it's so hard! No wonder it's a challenge to discover the kind of oneness that we got married for.” Secondly, from there, I want to say, too, that I would strongly encourage any young wife to remember that it's an important part of the relationship. It's really a mirror of the rest of your relationship. You may feel like you're having good sex; but if you're not really becoming one—if you're not really being transparent with one another—then you're not going to be really growing together in other areas of your relationship.  It's important that you keep that area of your marriage healthy and growing and keep it alive. The temptation is—when it gets hard, is to just say, “Well, forget it!” but you can't give up on it because it's one of the important parts that God has built into a marriage. Because God created it and God sanctioned it, then we need to learn what He wants us to do with it—we need to figure it out. 18:00 Bob: You know a lot of wives, who are saying, “I hear you and I agree with you; and if I was not tired all the time,— Barbara: Yes. Bob: “—I would give more attention to this! But I am tired all the time! How do I make this a priority, and how do I make it important when I'm exhausted?” Barbara: Did you read that in my book? Bob: Well, I did. Yes! [Laughter] Barbara: Yes; I talk about that in the book, because that is such a common complaint for women. I get it! I was tired all the time—and Dennis used to say he would be a very wealthy man if he had a dollar for every time I said, “I am so tired!” [Laughter] Right? Dennis: Right! [Laughter] Barbara: But even if we are so tired—and we are—and a lot of women are exhausted all the time because of the responsibilities of jobs and kids—and just the emotional weight of being in life. There are just so many ups and downs that we feel so deeply; and yet, it's learning to prioritize your life.  19:00 It's deciding, during a particular day, that you're going to take a nap so you've got more energy for your husband at night or it's choosing not to add these things to your schedule so that you can have more energy and more focus for your marriage. It's choosing to keep your marriage a priority—make it a priority. That's hard to do sometimes. There were plenty of times when I would take a nap in the afternoon and I'd still be exhausted at night. Dennis: That's correct! [Laughter] Barbara: It's not a quick and easy solution. [Laughter] Dennis: I just want to insert something. There are men, who are listening right now: “That's right! She's just tired too much.” To which I would say to the guys: “Are you cleaning up the kitchen— Bob: Yes. Dennis: “—after dinner? Are you helping to get the kids ready for bed?—brush their teeth, read them a story, pray with them. Get down on your knees, next to them, and look them in the eyes and ask them how their day was,”—but take some of your wife's load off of her and assume it yourself!  20:00 There is a concept in the Bible called “bearing one another's burdens.” I do think some guys—they want sex, but they don't want the process of loving—that means nourishing, which is creating growth—and cherishing, which is creating value— Bob: Yes. Dennis: —they don't want to do that with their wife. When you help your wife with her household duties, with the kids and all—you're making a statement of value to your wife that she ultimately will hear. Bob: I have to ask you about the wife, who would say, “This is a priority for me— Barbara: Yes.  Bob: —“but it's less a priority for my husband.”  Barbara: Yes. Bob: Let me first of all, though, let our listeners know how they can get a copy of the book that you've written, which is called Letters to My Daughters. It's a book that we've got in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center. You address, not only this subject, but you address a variety of subjects—letters that your daughters and daughters-in-law have written to you over the years, asking questions about being a godly wife and how you've responded to those letters that they've written.  21:00 You can go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to order a copy of the book; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY and order by phone. Again the website is FamilyLifeToday.com; and you can call 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” Dennis: Bob, I just want to say a word to our listeners. When you buy a book from FamilyLife Today, you're helping to keep this radio broadcast on the air. I've got to tell you—the people who really float this ship right here, to keep FamilyLife Today broadcasting, are Legacy Partners. They're people who give, every month, and who say: “I want to keep this kind of right-thinking—a biblical approach to marriage, to sex, to intimacy—I want to keep this on the air in my community; because this is going to make a difference in a lot of people's lives.” I just want to say, “Thanks,” to Legacy Partners right now: “Thank you for making this broadcast possible.” Bob: If you'd like to join the Legacy Partner team, we could use more Legacy Partners.  22:00 You can go to FamilyLifeToday.com and click the link, where it says, “Donate.” There's information available there about becoming a Legacy Partner. Again, our website is FamilyLifeToday.com. Barbara Rainey has joined us today. We've been talking about Chapter 6 in her book, Letters to My Daughters. Barbara, we started the conversation with a letter that you got from one of your daughters, saying, “What's the big deal?” There are some wives, who have been listening to us have this conversation, and they have said, “My question is: ‘Why isn't this a bigger deal— Barbara: Yes.  Bob: —“'for my husband? I'm ready. In fact, I feel robbed, or starved, or like there's something wrong with me! What do I do?” Barbara: I interviewed a couple of young women when I wrote this particular portion of the chapter because I wanted to know what they thought, and what they felt, and what they were experiencing. It's interesting—I don't have statistics to back this up—but I did do some research and talked to a number of different counselors and different people.  23:00 I think, oftentimes, there are issues in a young man's life that are keeping him from wanting to have sex with his wife; and typically, it's pornography.  In the women that I talked to—when I was preparing to write this chapter—that was the issue with most of these young men. There was so much shame attached to them as men / as young men because they were exposed, when they were children or when they were teenagers, and they just didn't know how to handle it—they still don't know how to handle it. That shame is keeping them from wanting to be one, sexually, with their wife.  Whether it is pornography or whether it is something else, the encouragement that I got from those that I talked to and that I would offer to you is that this is a concern that you need to carry with him. Dennis just mentioned, a minute ago, the verse, “Bear one another's burdens.” Once you become married, your burdens become one another's. You need to carry those burdens together. 24:00 I would encourage a wife, who is in that situation, to say to her husband: “You know, I know this is hard; and this is hard for me too. Let's go find someone who can help us; because I'm committed to you for a lifetime, and you agreed to be committed to me for a lifetime. Let's figure out what we need to do. Let's find what challenges we need to face. Let's do the work together to make our marriage what God intended it to be.” I know—from talking to these women—that it can change / it can be redeemed. God can change those broken places in both of our lives and bring you to a place where marriage is what you wanted it to be and where sex, in particular, is as God designed it to be. Bob: FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com    

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Surviving the Seasons of Intimacy Guest:                        Barbara Rainey                                From the series:       Letters to My Daughters (Day 2 of 2)  Bob: Why does it seem like moms are often not that interested in marital intimacy? Barbara Rainey understands. Barbara: It's hard to have a good, healthy, dynamic sexual relationship when you're tired all of the time. You're being pulled in a hundred directions by jobs, and kids, and financial stresses, and everything else; and, yet, I would still say that it's important to keep it a priority because, if you don't, you're vulnerable to the enemy / you're vulnerable to the temptation to find that excitement somewhere else. Bob: This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, February 7th. Our host is the President of FamilyLife®, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. Barbara Rainey joins us today to talk about how she worked to make intimacy a priority in her marriage when there were six kids still living at home. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. With the season of romance and love in the air—and let me just remind some of the husbands who are listening—Valentine's Day is coming up. You may want to put that on your calendar or on your reminder list so that you don't arrive at that day and find yourself empty-handed. I've had that experience—it's not a fun experience when that happens. [Laughter] Do you know what I'm talking about? Dennis: No. [Laughter] Bob: Yes; you do! Dennis: Forty-four years; and I'm batting a thousand, Bob! [Laughter] Bob: Are you? Dennis: Ask her! She's here with us! Bob: We have an eye witness here. Barbara Rainey is joining us. Is that true? Has he never missed a Valentine's Day? Has he always had a card, or a gift, or something? Dennis: I've always shown up! Bob: Showing up is something else! [Laughter] Barbara: You have been present.  2:00 Although, I don't know that you've always been present on Valentine's because of travel. Dennis: Oh, yes! That's probably true. Barbara: Yes. Bob: Well, we thought it would be helpful today to discuss the area of sex, and intimacy, and romance, especially since this is something, Barbara—that you wrote about in your book that is now almost a year old—it's called Letters to My Daughters. Chapter 6 was all about helping your daughters and other young wives understand what's going on with this aspect of a marriage relationship. Dennis: And, at this point, I want to read a P.S. that Barbara puts at the end of one of these letters. Now, the book has nine chapters. There's only one chapter on sex, but it's a long chapter; and there are like half a dozen letters that pose a question to Barbara that she answers in the book. I just want to read this:  P.S. There are additional unseen benefits to regular sexual relations in marriage.  3:00 Three little facts I learned from one of our FamilyLife Today radio guests: Number one: The chemicals oxytocin and dopamine, when released in the brain, increase bonding; the reexpression of love and commitment strengthens mutual affection; and there is a sense of satisfaction in keeping intimacy alive, even if the actual experience isn't a great one. The last is my favorite, because in our marriage…  Now, this is really interesting for me to read on air; because, Bob, you know, we have people come up to us and they say: “You guys! All you do is present a perfect picture of marriage!” Bob: Yes. Dennis: Well, I'm about to dispel that [Laughter] in what I'm about to read that my wife wrote in this book! The last one is my favorite, because in our marriage, sex hasn't always been accompanied by fireworks! Among a lot of good-to-great experiences, we've also had some pretty lousy encounters… 4:00 Did you really write that in this book?! Barbara: I did. [Laughter] And I can tell you still don't like it very much. Dennis: I don't; I don't. [Laughter] I complained about this when I edited it, but you didn't take it out. …some pretty lousy encounters…some that left us both either disappointed or hurt. That makes the chemical facts all the more important, because even not-great sex still bonds us together. Nice to know, huh? [Laughter] Dennis: Honestly, I really appreciate Barbara's honesty about our marriage, because I think a lot of people out there are hurting. They think they're the only ones that ever had a lousy encounter around the sexual relationship. Bob: When you and Dennis, together, wrote the book, Rekindling the Romance, you talked about seasons of a marriage. Barbara: Yes. Bob: You talked about early love, and then you talked about, kind of, this middle season—  Barbara: Yes. Bob: —where it just can kind of get routine.  5:00 A lot of husbands and wives, in the middle of raising kids and going through things—they hit that season and they think to one another, “This is it?” They're frustrated and they're disappointed. They wonder, if they switch partners, if things would get better for them. Dennis: Or, let me tell you this—Barbara spoke to one group of women who talked about a no-sex marriage, where people just give up / toss in the towel and say, “We're done.” Bob: And we've talked to couples, who have said, “It's been two years” / “…three years since we've been intimate with one another. We're committed, and we still love each other; but we've just kind of given up on that area of our marriage.” You would say to a wife, who says, “We've given up and we're content, and it's working out for us,”—what would you say? Barbara: I would say that's a dangerous assumption. I think that it's a very real possibility in a lot of marriages, because— 6:00 —you're right—there is a middle ground in marriage, where it's just hard work; because you have so many demands on both of your lives. There's not much energy left over; there's not much enthusiasm; there's not much rest. It's hard to have a good, healthy, dynamic sexual relationship when you're tired all of the time. You're being pulled in a hundred directions by jobs, and kids, and financial stresses, and everything else.  Yet, I would still say that it's important to keep it a priority; because if you don't, you're vulnerable to the enemy / you're vulnerable to the temptation to find that excitement somewhere else, which is why there are so many affairs. There are so many couples, who are splitting up and finding new partners, because it is exciting. They're finding that excitement that they once had in the early days of their marriage. 7:00 But it's not going to satisfy; it's not going to replace; it's not going to be better. It's actually going to be more complicated.  I really believe, and I've repeated it multiple times in my book, that God is big enough to change any marriage. I strongly believe that His Word is true when He said, “Nothing is too hard for Me.” You may look at your marriage, and you may go: “This is impossible! This is just too hard! I don't think there's any way out.” I want you to know—I've felt that way. I remember feeling that way at different times in those middle years of marriage, when we were swamped with kids and life. It felt too hard; but I knew that God meant what He said when He said, “Nothing is impossible for Me.” So, therefore, if I believe in God—and I do—then I have to take Him at His Word. I have to go to Him and say: “This feels impossible. This feels too difficult, but I know that You can bring life back to our marriage.”  8:00 If you don't quit, then there's always the hope of the redemption—there's the hope of God bringing new life back into your marriage. But when you quit, you've basically slammed the door on the possibility of God working a miracle. I think that's a tragedy. Dennis: And there's a biblical admonition that Paul gives us from 1 Corinthians, Chapter 7. He said, “The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise, the wife to her husband.” It goes on to talk about the wife doesn't have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and the husband doesn't have authority over his body, but the wife does. What I think Paul is exhorting us to here is that you've got to pay attention to one of the strongest drives in humanity. I got to thinking about this, and there are really only a couple of drives, I think, such as the need for oxygen and the need for water and food that would supplant sexuality.  9:00 Bob: You think survival might be a little ahead? Dennis: Well, those are both survival categories; but the point is—the urge for two people to merge was put there by God. I've thought about this many times. It's a good thing, in most marriages, that one of the two of you has a stronger desire to be with the other in the area of sexuality. Why? Because if one of you didn't have a pursuit, what might happen? You'd just have two people, spinning plates, off doing their own thing, and occasionally coming back, like roommates at a house to be able to maybe touch each other with eyesight, but never emotionally—never in depth, with a true, real relationship—the way God designed it in marriage. I think God, in His ingenuity, has made something powerful here that too often has been called “dirty.”  10:00 It really is a healthy desire for two people to become one.  Bob: So this brings up the issue, then, Barbara: “How would you coach a wife? Is it ever appropriate for her to say, ‘No, not now / not tonight—I'm not interested right now.' How should she say that? And what are the legitimate reasons for her to say, ‘I can't be with you'? Is it because, ‘I'm too tired,' or because, ‘You hurt me the other day'? What works here?” Barbara: Well, first of all, I think she does have a responsibility to be honest with her husband. I think that faking it—faking being together sexually—is not going to accomplish anything. If there is emotional distance between you—and you're feeling hurt because of something he said or if you really are so exhausted that you just can't function anymore that day—those are real life issues that we all deal with and we all feel. 11:00 The purpose of sex and of coming together is for intimacy—it's for transparency / it's for sharing our lives together. I don't think there's anything wrong with delaying it—I don't think there's anything wrong with a woman expressing how she feels or what her needs are—because to not do that is being disingenuous / that's not transparency. If the goal is transparency / the goal is intimacy and oneness, you have to be real / you have to be honest. Now, the way you do that, I think, is what's most important. That is, you can say, “I just can't tonight,” or “I feel like we've got to finish talking about this argument that we had two days ago,” or whatever it might be.  It's the way in which you communicate that that matters to your husband. It must be done with respect; it must be done with commitment; it must be done with love. You say something like: “I need you to know what I'm feeling. Can we talk about this now, or should we talk about it later?”  12:00 “I need some resolution in this area of our relationship.” If you communicate that you're committed to him and you say: “I'm committed to you, and I'm going to work this out. I want to be with you, just not tonight,” or “…just not right now.” I think that's perfectly acceptable as long as “not right now” doesn't turn into two years. I think it needs to be an agreement between a husband and a wife—they talk about it, and they find a solution together that works for both of them. It has to be mutual. Bob: That's 1 Corinthians 7 again; isn't it? Dennis: It is. Paul goes on to say: “Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement, for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer. But then, come back together again so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.” I mean, we live in a highly-sexualized culture.  13:00 We've got to understand one another.  Here's where Barbara's book does an outstanding job of helping young wives, and for that matter, older wives understand their husbands in this area—and how they are made by God—and that it's good—it's not bad / it's not evil.. They should bless their husband and not ignore him. If you need to say, “Not tonight, Sweetheart,” don't ignore it tomorrow night, and the next night, and the next night, and the next night. Bob: So the wife who is feeling, tonight: “I think he might be interested. I just—maybe if I just go to bed early—I don't say anything / I just fall— you know, he comes in and finds me asleep. Then, he'll leave me alone.” She gets a little passive-aggressive with how she handles this. She finds ways to dodge or avoid. Dennis: Do you think a guy doesn't know this? Barbara: Yes! He does. Dennis: Yes; he does! Bob: So, to that wife—you'd say: “It's time to get this out in the open and have the conversation”? 14:00 Barbara: Yes; I do. I think it's much better to talk about it. I mean, I think it's a temptation for all of us women to want to kind of just avoid it and hope it will go away when we're too tired, or overwhelmed, or whatever. But making it go away isn't the solution. It's not the solution to any kind of a disagreement, or an impasse, or something that's between you, as husband and wife. It's like the part that Dennis read earlier from my book—even not-so-great sex is bonding. It's remembering what's true / it's remembering the value that God places on your marriage and on the sexual part of your marriage relationship. It's going to him and saying: “I am really exhausted, but I sense that you might be interested in making love tonight,” or “…having sex tonight. Can we talk about that? Can we talk about a solution? Can we figure out what we want to do together so that we're mutually agreeing?” She's not controlling by being passive, and going to sleep ahead of time, and hoping he won't notice.  15:00 Does that make sense? Bob: It does! What do you say, then, to the wife who says, “You know what? Thirty pounds ago, he was attractive. Today, I'm just not attracted to him.” Or she says, “Thirty pounds ago, I felt attractive.  Barbara: Yes. Bob: “And now, I don't feel desirable. Even though he says he's interested, I think, ‘How can you be? Because I look at myself in the mirror and I don't feel attractive.'” What do you say about those issues? Barbara: Well, I think those are just further reflections of our need for transparency and our need for oneness. We got married to be acceptable to one another. We got married to know one another in our strengths and in our weaknesses. So when we gain weight or when things change about us, are we still committed? Are we still called to love one another? Are we still committed to making our marriage all that God wants it to be for as long as we both shall live?  Well, we have to learn to love one another in our weaknesses.  16:00 We have to learn to love one another in our imperfections. Yes; it may have been easier when you were both in your 20s and you were both—whatever attracted you to each other—but marriage wasn't built for just when we're in our 20s. Marriage was built for a lifetime. You are going to go through trials and difficulties, and both of you are going to change. Is God big enough to give you the kind of love that will last?—the kind of intimacy that you got married for in those years when you are challenged with health issues, or weight issues, or whatever it is? Dennis: And I know a dad who took his daughters aside—they had several daughters—and he just talked to them about the importance of your attractiveness to your husband: “You need to do your job of being the best—the very best—magnet you can be to your man.” Now, we all know that there are these superstar models out there.  Bob: Right. 17:00 Dennis: You're never going to be able to compete at that level, but you know what? You can be a beautiful, attractive wife to your husband. One of the things I appreciate about Barbara is—even when she says she doesn't feel pretty, she's still incredibly attractive to me. I just appreciated her for how she's paid attention to the process of aging. I mean, 44 years—that means our listeners know we're no longer teenagers in our 20s; okay? Forty-four years of marriage—I mean, you've got a lot of gravity to fight by the time you get there. So the point is: “Do you care enough to love your husband in the way that speaks love to him?” Barbara: And it's not just about the exterior; because I think what we're talking about right now—people tend to think it's the exterior. It's not! What makes a person beautiful—what makes a man or a woman beautiful—is our hearts.  18:00 If we pay attention to our hearts, we pay attention to learning to love well, and to do what God has called us to do as men and as women, then we're going to be attractive to one another. Because when Dennis serves me, and denies himself for me, and when he does the kinds of things that I know cost him something—and he's doing it because he loves me—that's attractive to me. I mean, I appreciate that / I respond to that. Any woman alive will do that; because, when she sees a man sacrificing for her—we're just built to respond to that—and vice-versa—when women serve their husbands and love their husbands, that's what makes us attractive. Bob: We've been focusing on your counsel to young wives because, again, that's the subject of the book you've written: Letters to My Daughters. I did want to, before we're done, go back 22 years and let our listeners hear a clip of advice that you shared for husbands in this area of sex and romance, back when we recorded a series on FamilyLife Today, back in 1995—   19:00 Dennis: This is scary! [Laughter] Barbara: It is! Bob: —called—do you remember 1995? Do you remember being 22 years younger than you are now? Barbara: Yes, but that was a long time ago! [Laughter] Bob: Well, we're going to hear this clip in just a minute. Let me, first, let our listeners know how they can get a copy of your book, Letters to My Daughters. It's a book that we've got in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center. You can go online at our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, and order your copy of Barbara Rainey's book, Letters to My Daughters: The Art of Being a Wife. Again, the website is FamilyLifeToday.com. You can also order a copy when you call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, the number is 1-800-358-6329; 1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.” By the way, when you're on the website at FamilyLifeToday.com, there's a banner there that says, “Romance Me.”  20:00 If you click that, there's a quiz you can take to talk about your romantic style and your spouse's romantic style and to see where there's compatibility and where there might be areas for growth. Click on that when you're on our website at FamilyLifeToday.com. You can share the romance quiz with friends on Facebook® or on Twitter®. We just thought this would be something fun for you to do and just see how you match up in the area of romance. Let me also say a quick word of thanks to those folks who made today's program possible—it's those of you who support this ministry. Particularly, we want to thank those of you who are monthly Legacy Partners and who provide the financial stability / the backbone for this daily radio program. You really are partners with us in this outreach to marriages and families, all around the world, as we work to effectively develop godly marriages and families. We appreciate your partnership with us. 21:00 If you're able to help with a donation today, we'd love to say, “Thank you,” by sending you Dennis and Barbara Rainey's devotional book called Moments with You. It's our thank-you gift if you make a one-time donation or if you make your first gift as a Legacy Partner. Again, go to FamilyLifeToday.com to find out more or to make a donation. Orcall 1-800-FL-TODAY, and you can donate over the phone. Or you can mail your donation to FamilyLife Today at PO Box 7111, Little Rock, AR; our zip code is 72223. Now, we promised our listeners that they were going to get a chance to hear some advice that you shared to husbands. We were recording a series called “Creating a More Romantic Marriage.” We were just asking you to help husbands understand how women think on this issue of romance, and intimacy, and sex in marriage. Dennis: Is this the story about Saran Wrap? [Laughter] Barbara: No!! [Laughter] Bob: Stop it! 22:00 Barbara: It's a story about “a + b = c”; right? Bob: Ah, she knows where we're headed! [Laughter] Listen to this clip from 22 years ago: [Previous Interview] Barbara: I don't think that a woman wants to feel pegged; I don't think she wants to feel figured out, button-holed, taken advantage of—whatever you want to call it. I think that that defeats the essence of love. Again, I think that a husband needs to live with her in an understanding way, and to love her as Christ loved the church, and then she will respond to that. Bob: So it sounds to me like the message here to men is: “Once you've found what really communicates love to your wife,—  Dennis: —“don't ever do that again!” [Laughter] Bob: That's right. Barbara: Noooo! Bob: — “she will realize it, and she will change the rules. Barbara: That's not true. Bob: “And tomorrow it's going to be something completely different!” [Laughter] Barbara: It makes us sound schizophrenic. Bob: But that's what it feels like for men sometimes! Barbara: I know! Dennis: Well, it feels like it to a man—that, here, he is doing his best to love his wife— Barbara: I understand. Dennis: —and she throws away the rule book. Barbara: I do. 23:00 Dennis: And she says: “I don't want a rule book. I don't want to be figured out.” Barbara: It sounds awful! [Laughter] It really does. Bob: But it's true; isn't it? Barbara: Well, I really do think it's true. I really do, and it's not that she doesn't want those things done again. It's not that you bring her flowers two or three times and she loves it; and then, all of a sudden, she feels like she's been pegged and she doesn't ever want them again for the rest of her life. I think there needs to be variety / there needs to be creativity. She needs to feel like he's thinking about her in different ways at different times and not just the same old, prescribed pattern.  [Studio] Bob: So, 22 years later, it still can't be a formula. Is that what you're saying?  Barbara: That is correct. It cannot be a formula. Women still want to be pursued / we still want to be figured out. I think it's a very good thing. Dennis: I'm Dennis Rainey, and that's real family life! [Laughter] Bob: I was waiting for you to say, “I approve this message,”— Barbara: Yes!  Bob: —but you didn't say that; did you? Barbara: No. Dennis: That was back last fall—we can't say that anymore. [Laughter]  24:00 No; it's really important that men live with their wives in an understanding way and that a husband understands that his wife needs to be loved. That's a lifetime assignment. What communicates love to your wife will be different than mine, and what communicates love to your wife today will be different in a decade. It will grow / it will mature.  I'll tell you what you have, as you move into the twilight years of life, you're going to have a great relationship that you wouldn't want to swap out with anybody, even though there've been some very, very difficult times. Bob: FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2017 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com   

FamilyLife Today® Radio Transcript  References to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. The Team Approach Guests:                      Dennis and Barbara Rainey                       From the series:       Art of Parenting: What Every Parent Needs (Day 3 of 3)  Bob: As parents, it's important that you continue to grow in your relationship with the Lord and in your understanding of Scripture, because Barbara Rainey says you never know when your kids are going to ask you a question that's a stumper. Barbara: I'll never forget—my grandson said to our daughter—he said, “Mom, why do I need to tell God what I did when He already knows?” Those are the kinds of things that parents run into. You've got to teach your children—what it means to forgive; why you need to confess your sin to God—because kids are smart, and they're going to start thinking about that stuff. They're going to press you on it. You have to know why you're going where you're going with your kids.  This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, October 31st. Our host is Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine. As parents, we don't have to have all the answers to the questions our kids ask us; but we need to know where to find the answers. We'll talk more about that today. Stay with us. 1:00 And welcome to FamilyLife Today. Thanks for joining us. We've been spending time this week talking about: “What's at the heart of parenting?”—what parents need to be thinking about and processing, together, as they raise their children. I'm thinking back to when you first started working through what the Bible has to say about parenting—this was more that a quarter of a century ago— Barbara: Gosh, that's sounds forever. Bob: I know. It does; doesn't it? [Laughter] Right in the middle of— Dennis: I think it is forever. [Laughter] Bob: —in the middle of raising your kids, you took an extended season of time and dug into the Scriptures, and talked to a lot of pastors, and Bible teachers, theology professors. Dennis: —men and women. Bob: You got a lot of input. What is in your book, The Art of Parenting, is a lot of the fruit that came from those conversations, back years ago.  2:00  The thing I love about that is the fact that it's still as relevant today as it was then, because we're talking about things that are eternal—not things that are temporal.  Barbara: Yes.  Dennis: This was created in 1990 and ‘91, prior to radio. Because once radio started—it's daily—I wasn't able to get the time away to be able to do the fresh thinking that I took over a 12-18-month period. But I looked to see if I could condense down: “What's the essence of parenting? What does God want us to do?”—and I found four things. I think He wants us to teach relationships to our children—how to relate to God / how to relate to another sinful, selfish human being. We're preparing our children, someday, probably for marriage. But our kids need to know how to love God and love one another. Secondly, we are establishing and building their character. We're shaping a child, who's wise and not a fool—who knows what's right and what's wrong—how to choose one and not the other.  3:00  Character development is something that God works, over time, in our lives to create. The Bible is full of all kinds of illustrations of this. In fact, I think we take a whole chapter in the book, talking about how God develops character in us. I think we could take a page out of “How God Does That” and apply that to us, as parents; and we do that.  Third is the issue of identity. Keep in mind this was developed in 1990 and ‘91. We talked about how God created us with a spiritual identity: “Who are we?” “What are we to be about?” “Do we have value?” “Do we have purpose?” The answer is: “Yes.” Also, sexual identity. One of the first descriptions of man—in Genesis, Chapter 1, verses 26-28, was that He identified them as male and female. He says that definition three times in a matter of three verses.  4:00 Our sexual and spiritual identity, I believe today, are on the line as never before. Finally, the fourth area is mission: “Why are we here?” “What's our purpose?” These arrows were not designed to stay in the quiver. Children were made to be pulled back on a bow and let go and released to fulfill God's mission for their lives. Bob: Your wife Barbara is joining us this week as we talk about what parents need to keep in mind as we raise the next generation. Barbara, we've talked about the big picture—having the end in mind as you raise your kids. But parents need to also have kind of a working strategic plan for what they're doing. Dennis: Yes. Bob: In fact, this is really the heart of you book. You help parents come up with a short-term strategic plan that needs to be reviewed and updated throughout the parenting years so that you're always thinking: “In the next 12 months, what are the priorities?” 5:00 Barbara: Yes; right. Bob: “In the next 24 months, what are the priorities?” Then come back—revisit that/readdress that—so that you're being intentional as you raise your kids. Barbara: Yes; and that's a big word for us. Dennis and I have always wanted to be very intentional with our kids, and with our marriage, and with our lives; because we think that is what God has called us to do. He hasn't called us just to exist and have fun. He has created us that we would glorify Him, and that we would raise godly children, and that we would have a marriage that would honor Him. That takes intentionality; it isn't going to happen accidently. It's not going to happen just by doing life. You have to make decisions that cause that to happen. As we talk about parenting, you have to begin with the end in mind.  In our book, we write and try to create a vision—try to help parents see the big picture—help them see the wonderful calling it is to be a parent, because it's so easy to get caught up in the messiness of being a parent.  6:00 We are constantly casting that vision; but we're also trying to be very practical and help—you know: “How to make decisions,” “How to work together as a team,” “How to be intentional,” “How to have the right values govern your everyday life, as a mom and a dad,”—so it's both, together. Dennis: And the way we did that was on a date night. We'd get out on a date; and initially—I've got to admit—I was kind of looking for some romantic date nights, [Laughter] where we just had a fun time; because we had six kids in ten years. Ultimately, those date nights became the Vice-president and President hiding away from the kids [Laugher] on a date in a restaurant.  Barbara: They were strategy sessions on how to survive the next week. Dennis: They were! [Laugher] We would look at the calendar—we would look at where we were going. We would review our road map: “Where are we taking them?” “What does this child need?” “What does that child need us to especially work on in his or her life?” Barbara: And sometimes, our dinners were preoccupied by one child that was especially needy at that particular time.  7:00 Dennis: Exactly. Barbara: We didn't always go over all of them.  Dennis: No, no; sometimes, there was no room for romance.  Barbara: Oh, most of the time. [Laugher] Dennis: Okay; most of the time. [Laughter] But Bob, here's the thing—we would use those times to pull back to the big picture and get a clearer road map, going forward, and just say: “What are we doing here? We don't want to be held hostage by comparing ourselves with other families that may be too busy—that don't have the same stuff going on that we have.”  We tried to say: “Lord, here's what You called us to do to make an impact in other people's marriages and families. Help us to not lose our own marriage in the midst of this, but also raise effective children in the process.” Bob: Anybody, who's in the business world, understands a couple of things: First of all, there are some things that are urgent, and there are some things that are important. We usually focus on the urgent and ignore the important—and that's not good.  8:00 Secondly, you understand that, unless you take some time to develop strategic priorities, you can get caught up in the day to day but never be thinking about: “What are our goals or our aspirations?”  You've mapped out in your book, The Art of Parenting, a way for parents to do some concrete, short-term, strategic planning—to get away from the urgent for a little bit and focus on the important. There are seasons, where the urgent is going to dominate—I get that; right?—the house is on fire—you don't think, “Where do we want to go on vacation next summer?” But get away from the urgent for a few minutes and look at the bigger picture—the important.  When parents do that, it's a fundamental shift in their parenting; and all of a sudden, now, they're parenting with a level of intentionality.  Dennis: Here's where our book and the video series, The Art of Parenting™, spells out and takes people through a process where they reduce in writing on a sheet of paper that is called “Your Child's Arrow.” It's actually a picture of an arrow, where you fill out each of the four areas I mentioned at the beginning of this broadcast—  9:00 —relationships, character, identity, and mission—you look at those.  It's interesting—Barbara and I would move from child to child and look at where they needed to be developed. From time to time, every one of them had something of those four things that they needed us to either anticipate an issue that was coming down the pike, or where we needed to give them a little more focused attention to be successful in one of those four areas. Barbara: It seems to me, as I look back on that, that we most often talked about character and relationship issues; because those are the ones that seem to be the ones that we run into, day in and day out, in raising a family. We would talk about: “What are we going to do about lying?” We would talk about: “What are we going to do about hitting siblings?” or “…not respecting your sister's closet?”—you know: “You can't just go in and take stuff.  10:00 “You've got to ask.” There were all of these character/behavioral kinds of things that we were instilling values in. Then, the relationship side we talked about all the time, too; because we had sibling rivalry every day—thousands of times, it felt like, every day. We were teaching over, and over, and over again about being kind; about how to ask for forgiveness; how to say you are sorry / “Will you forgive me?”; how to pray and ask God to forgive you, and why you wanted to. I'll never forget—my grandson said to our daughter—he said, “Mom, why do I need to tell God what I did when He already knows?” Those are the kinds of things that parents run into. You've got to teach your children—what it means to forgive; why you need to confess your sin to God—because kids are smart, and they're going to start thinking about that stuff. They're going to press you on it. You have to know why you're going where you're going in all four of these areas with your kids.  Bob: When your kids hit pre-adolescence and then adolescence, that's where the identity piece starts to really emerge.  11:00 Barbara: Yes. Bob: During toddlerhood and elementary years, you're probably not focused a whole lot on identity. Of course, in these days, it's happening younger and younger with these kids as they start to say: “Okay; who am I?  Barbara: Yes.  Bob: “What did God make me to be? What am I good at? Will I ever be popular? What's my life all about?” This is more subtle than some of the character and relationship issues we deal with— Barbara: That's right.  Bob: —but parents can't just tune this out and think it's going to happen; right?   Barbara: No; and I think probably, in this culture, you need to be more intentional and more aggressive even than we were; because, you know, your kids are hearing it. If you don't know your kids are hearing it, we want to tell you: “Your kids are hearing it. They're aware of it. They may hear somebody say something at school or even at church.”  Bob: You're talking about gender identity. Barbara: We're talking about gender identity issues; yes. I think you have got to be—parents have to be proactive today, even at younger ages, because of what children are being exposed to.  12:00 Bob: Even beyond the gender-identity question, which is huge, every junior high kid is figuring out: “Am I one of the popular kids?” “Am I a jock?” “Am I part of the theater group?” “Am I a nerd?” Barbara: Yes.  Bob: They're coming up with a self-assessment, saying, “Where do I fit into the pack here?” Those can be challenging years for an adolescent. Dennis: They can. I think the adolescent years are where the character begins to emerge and where you're still not done with discipline of your children. Bob: There are a couple other things that you think are vital for moms and dads if they are going to be effective, as parents—one is that they not try to go this alone, just the two of them. They need to be in community with other parents. This is essential; isn't it? Dennis: It is absolutely essential.  Barbara: Yes. Dennis: I think, especially, today with the issues coming at young people, as never before, it takes a village. Bob: Well, I've shared this before—you guys have heard me say this— 13:00 —but we were part of a small group with other parents with kids the same age as our kids. I remember many a Sunday night when we were headed over to our small group, leaving the house and just going, “Okay; they're all going to jail pretty soon,”—[Laughter]—you know—“because they're all just messing up.”  We would get to small group and, somehow, in the conversation that night, we'd learn that everybody else's kids were acting out too.  Barbara: Yes. Bob: And we'd drive home going, “Okay; we're not alone in this.” It just gave us a such a sense of relief.  Dennis: I want to give the shout-out to a principal, who's just a couple of miles up the road from FamilyLife's headquarters—one of the top schools in America. It's called Little Rock Christian Academy. Dr. Gary Arnold courageously stepped up and he said: “You know what we're going to do? We're going to require every sixth grader to go through Passport to Purity™ with their parents.” I thought—when Gary told me that, I thought: “This is the best kind of peer pressure— 14:00 Bob: Yes. Dennis: — “to have 140 sixth-graders—with their mom / with their dad—go through this Friday night-Saturday experience by themselves with their parent. But then, come back to school and begin to talk about it.  Here's a whole class of kids—they're [now] seniors in high school—so they've got other eyes, who know what the content was in that Passport to Purity weekend—the entire class having been through it. I think it's the best kind of peer pressure that's available today.  Barbara: Another thing that we did—that I think was really helpful for our kids and for us—is we knew a lot of people—still do—who are great faith heroes / people who walk with God. When we had the opportunity to bring them over to our house for dinner, we would get the kids around. We'd all sit at the table; and we would just hand it over to our friends and we say, “Tell our kids the story about what happened when you went to Africa,” “Tell our kids the story about…”—whatever—because I wanted our children to hear that faith was real and authentic for people other than Mom and Dad.  15:00 Because it's real easy for kids to think: “Aw, it's just Mom and Dad,” and “They're old, and they're archaic,”—and whatever. If they can hear someone else being in love with Christ, and being excited about walking with Him, then they might go: “Oh, maybe Mom and Dad aren't so dumb after all. Maybe they're on to something.”     That was something that we did. It's an idea that I think a lot of other families can incorporate, just with people who are in your church. There are heroes of the faith in your churches that you can bring over and say, “Tell a story to my kids.” Bob: There's one other essential for effective parenting. This is one of those things that we could say it—and people would go, “Yes, yes; that's one of those ‘Put it on the list, so you can check it off.'” But you guys really feel this is not a cliché—this is a vital part of parenting. Dennis: This is how you do it—Proverbs 24: 3 and 4 says: “By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established.  16:00 “By knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches.” How do you get the wisdom to build a house?—you cry out to God and you say: “Help! Help! We don't know what we're doing, God.”  We've prayed the prayer of a helpless parent on so many different occasions, because we were brought to our knees around issues we didn't know how to answer/address——didn't know how to tackle. We would pray for the kids; we would pray with our kids. We would pray we'd catch our kids doing what's right and we would catch them doing wrong—all for the purpose of shaping their lives to reflect what God wants to do in their souls.  Bob: We put together a prayer challenge for parents not long ago. Barbara: Yes. Bob: This was as kids were heading back to school; but honestly, this is something you can do at any point in time. We were sending out prayer prompts every day, where a mom or dad would get an email that says:  17:00 “Here's what you can pray for your kids today…”—a 30-day practice—just to try to jumpstart this discipline in the life of parents so that you get into a rhythm of regularly praying for your kids. I know, for a lot of parents, it can feel like: “Okay; I did that. I can check it off the list. Did anything really just happen there?” This is where we got to, by faith, go: “There's a God, who's listening, who's called us to pray / who wants us to pray. This will be good for us and good for our kids.” God hears those prayers and responds to them. Barbara: Yes; and t's important that we pray with our kids, and in front of our kids, and for them; so that they see it modeled. They don't just hear that we do it; but it's something that they participate in, as they're growing up.  When we were writing the book, The Art of Parenting, one of the things I wanted to do was get our children—who are all grown now—I wanted to get their voices in the book; I wanted to get some of their experience in the book, because all of them are married and all of them have kids now.  18:00 I wanted them to kind of say: “What have you learned?” “What are you using that you learned?” “What are you changing that you thought we did terrible, and you're doing it differently?” I wanted their voices to be heard.  We asked our kids to write some stories. One of the ones that came in first—that we still, to this day, delight in—is the story of Dennis praying with the kids when he would drive them to school in the morning. He didn't do it every day, but he did it enough that this one child—our daughter—remembers him praying.  What's so fun about it is that, when we would do this—when we would pray with our kids in the morning before school / when we would pray with them at night—so often, they would give us this, “Oh, do we have to?” kind of a thing. As parents, you think: “My gosh; is this making any difference? Am I getting anywhere?” You just so doubt yourself and second-guess yourself.  But our daughter wrote the story of how she remembered Dad taking them to school in the morning.  19:00 She describes him “Octopus-arm Dad”; because he would have his coffee in one hand, a handful of cereal in the other. Then, he'd be shaving with another hand, [Laughter] and throwing the cereal into his mouth and eating while he was driving all along. The way she described it—it was just this beautiful picture of all the things that were happening in his seat, as he was driving to get to school.  But she said, “I remember he always prayed for us; and he always prayed three things: that God would protect us from evil, and from harm, and from temptation; and he ended all of his prayers with that.” She said, “I remember, at the time, thinking, “Ya, ya, ya—whatever.” But she said, “Now, that I'm a mom, when I take my kids to school every day”—they're in elementary school—“I pray the same words, every day, over my kids; because I know God hears, and I know that's what He wants me to do with my girls.”  It was really encouraging to see, as parents; because we do want to quit and give up, because we don't see results. You're not going to see results quickly like we would like.  20:00 It's not a short-term process. Hang in there; and pray together, as a couple. But pray for and with you kids; so that they can hear it, and see it, and you can model it for them.  Bob: I know your heart for this book and for the video series is that moms and dads will not just read this and go: “That was a good book. That was helpful.” You want this to be a strategic plan. Barbara: Yes. Bob: You want them to begin to implement things in their parenting that are going to have an eternal impact on their children's lives. Dennis: We know it will impact generations— Bob: Right. Dennis: —because that's what children are all about. Bob: Well, we've got copies of your book and the video series in our FamilyLife Today Resource Center. I'd encourage our listeners—if you don't have a copy—or if you know a couple, who have just begun a family / maybe some moms and dads, who've got three or four kids, and they could use a little help—get a copy of the book, The Art of Parenting, and pass it on as a gift to them. You can order from us, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order.  21:00 I'll tell you what—better yet—if there are four or five couples that you know in your neighborhood or in your church, why don't you invite them over, have a potluck meal, and then watch session one of the Art of Parenting small group series, and say, “Would y'all like to come back in a couple of weeks and we'll go through Session 2?” Take them through all of this content—it would be a great outreach—a great way to help equip and train the next generation.  Find out more about the Art Parenting small group series kit when you go to FamilyLifeToday.com. You can order that from us, online; or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. I tell you what—you could invite them over—and the kit includes the movie, Like Arrows, that was in theaters, back earlier this year. Invite them over for a movie night—watch the movie together, and then ask them if they'd like to go through the content from there— 22:00 —maybe a little less threatening; huh? Again, all the information is available, online, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or call to order: 1-800-FL-TODAY.  You know, we think the things we've talked about today—these issues are eternally significant. When we talk about marriages and families, we're not simply talking about how you can all get along better and have a happier family. We recognize there's more at stake here than just happiness. We're talking about the eternal trajectory of your life, your spouse's life, your children's lives.  Here, at FamilyLife®, we want to effectively develop godly marriages and families—not just happy marriages and families—but godly marriages and families. We are so grateful that some you, who are regular listeners, feel as we do—that this kind of conversation is critical. We know that because you have supported us in the past.  23:00 You've made today's program possible, and it's been listened to today by hundreds of thousands of people. On behalf of those who have benefited from our conversation today: “Thank you for your support that has made it possible.”  If you are a long-time listener and you have never become a part of the team that helps FamilyLife Today happen, we'd like you to go to our website, FamilyLifeToday.com, to donate to support this ministry or to become a monthly Legacy Partner. You can donate, online, again, at FamilyLifeToday.com; or you can call to donate at 1-800-358-6329—1-800-“F” as in family, “L” as in life, and then the word, “TODAY.”  When you do, be sure to ask for the gift we want to make available to you this month. It's our 2019 calendar, “A Year of Togetherness as a Family.” There are activities and Bible verses to memorize each month—things that you can do to build, and bond, and grow together, as a family.  24:00 Again, the calendar is our gift to you when you donate to support the ministry of FamilyLife Today. We appreciate that support.  And we hope you can join us again tomorrow when we're going to hear from a mom, who got a wakeup call one day when her pastor handed her a jar of pennies. Eryn Lynum will be here tomorrow to explain why that was so significant. I hope you can be here as well.  I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine. We will see you back next time for another edition of FamilyLife Today.  FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas; a Cru® Ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.  We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you. However, there is a cost to produce them for our website. If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs?   Copyright © 2018 FamilyLife. All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com  

A Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 1) - Bill BrightA Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 2) - Bill BrightA Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 3) - Bill BrightFamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Final ExhortationsDay 3 of 3 Guest:                    Bill Bright From the series:   Reflections of Life:  A Personal Visit With Bill Bright   Bob:                Dr. Bill Bright has a message for Christians today, and it's a simple, basic message. Bill:                  I would say to all believers – love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.  Seek first His kingdom, obey His commandments, trust His promises, and spend the rest of your life getting to know Him so you can love Him and trust Him and obey Him without any hesitancy. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Friday, February 21st.  Our host is the Executive Director of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Today a conversation with a man whose life is centered in The Great Commission and The Great Commandment.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Friday edition.  For the last couple of days we've been listening back to an interview that was conducted recently with the past president and founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, Dr. Bill Bright.  I don't know if you've ever wondered this – but have you ever asked yourself what would have happened to Bill Bright if he'd never been converted, if he'd never come to faith in Christ?  What do you think his life would have been, what would it have looked like? Dennis:          Well, he described himself a couple of days ago on FamilyLife Today as a happy pagan.  He was very successful in the candy business and had created a line of candies called "Bright's Confectionary Candies," I guess. Bob:                "Bright's Delights," wasn't it? Dennis:          Bright's Delights, that's right, that's right.  So maybe some major chocolate lines wouldn't be here because Bill Bright would be ruling in the candy world.  But he didn't do that, Bob.  He yielded and surrendered his life and signed over a title deed of his life, along with his wife Vonette, and for more than 50 years they not only have been married but also have been in surrendered service to Christ and have been used mightily by God. Bob:                I think one of the things that has stuck in my mind, as I've had the opportunity to meet and interact with Dr. Bright, has been his remarkable focus.  Most of us get distracted by all kinds of lesser things, but I don't think I've ever seen him in any environment at any time when he's been distracted by anything other than the Gospel.  It's always about life with Christ.  It's always about evangelism and discipleship and walking with Christ and getting to know the Savior.  I don't know if he's paid attention to anything mundane in the last 50 years. Dennis:          I think some of our listeners would probably be shocked at how little television, how few movies he's ever seen in his life.  I doubt if he reads much of the newspaper, but he saturates his mind and his heart and his life with the scriptures, and I've heard him say on a number of occasions, "I evaluate every day of my life as to how it will contribute to The Great Commission.                          Now, if you think about it, it makes sense that if Jesus Christ said "I have the greatest commission that has ever been given, that I want to give to you," wouldn't it be wise for us to evaluate our lives and how they are contributing to fulfilling what Jesus called the greatest commission – to go to the world and proclaim the Gospel. Bob:                Well, let me take our listeners with us to Bill Bright's living room at his condominium in Orlando, Florida, where we had the opportunity to enjoy a casual conversation about some deeply profound subjects.  Here's Dr. Bill Bright: Dennis:          By all measures of this world, you have lived, not a storybook life, but certainly a successful life.  You undoubtedly have a definition of what a successful life looks like.  Would you mind sharing that? Bill:                  Successful Christian life, and that's summum bonum – that's more important than any other – is the crucified life.  Paul writes in Galatians 2:20 – "I am crucified with Christ.  Nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live with the faith of the son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me."  So the success of the Christian life belongs to those who know the reality of being crucified with Christ. Dennis:          Putting to death the flesh. Bill:                  Putting death to flesh – and out of that relationship, where Christ is all – He is Lord, He is Master, He is Savior, He is King – comes joy and rejoicing and full of glory.  So that's success – being dead to self and alive to Christ. Dennis:          As a man, as a husband, and as a father – do you have any regrets? Bill:                  I shared one with you – my failure to witness to Coach Red Sanders. Dennis:          The coach at UCLA back in the early 1950s? Bill:                  Yes.  That was an experience I've lived with all these years, because I disobeyed God. Dennis:          Any others? Bill:                  I, obviously, am far from a perfect husband or father or anything, but I don't have any regrets.  I look back on a life that's been rich and full, even the defeats, even the times of heartache and sorrow, God has used for His glory.  It's like Joseph said of his imprisonment and his problems as a result of being sold into slavery by his brothers – "What you intended for evil, God used for good."  And I've found that even in my mistakes, if my spirit is right, my heart is pure, my motives are pure, God turns my mistakes to blessings. Dennis:          Looking back over your life, you've done a lot of courageous things.  Obviously, God at work in you, but what would you say, looking back over 81 years, was the most courageous act you've ever performed? Bill:                  Well, there are many thoughts that come to mind – surrendering everything, where we signed a contract to be slaves of Jesus, putting everything in His hands – all that we owned or ever would own – that was simply an act of obedience, so I don't think it was that courageous, because I was doing what He told me to do.                           Moving to UCLA to start the ministry – I was the only one on staff, thought I was teaching school, and she joined me the second year.  I think, for example, when God led us to start Expo 72.  We'd never done anything like this and a good percentage of the staff leaders objected and some resigned.  Another time, when 13 men marched into my office, men who were like my sons whom I love to this day, every one of them, and God never allowed me to resent them, but they came into my office and demanded I resign.  They were taking over the movement.  To this day, when I have met them on different occasions, I give them a big hug and mean it.  I say, "I love you," and mean it.  That was something that God used to be a blessing.  Incidentally, six of those men left.  They were going to take the whole movement, and 750 people joined the staff that summer, and it was like God pruned so He could give fruit. Dennis:          Bill, you've been close to death because of your lung disease.  Have you ever been afraid to die? Bill:                  No. Dennis:          There's never been the fear of dying? Bill:                  As a matter of fact, God has graciously given me the joy of dying.  You know, face it, you can't lose when you go to be with the Lord.  But Vonette and I were on this airplane out of New York flying to Washington one evening some years ago, and it rained all afternoon.  The flight was delayed and delayed and delayed and finally the pilots apparently just took it in their hands and said, "We're going to fly."  So within minutes after we got in the air, we were in the middle of a firestorm.  I mean, a ball of fire and a tornado type wind, and the plane was like a leaf in the wind – it was awesome.  The wings were just going up and down like a bird, and we knew we couldn't possibly survive. So Vonette and I sat there in the plane, held hands, and prayed and said goodbye and thanked the Lord that we would soon be with Him, and it was very somber and yet – I can't say it was joyful because, frankly, it was frightening.  The plane was just about to come apart, from our perspective.  And we flew and flew and flew and just kept flying and Washington isn't that far away.  By this time, it was night, and finally we landed in a little out-of-the-way airport and discovered that the lightning had struck a hole in the fuselage.  I'd never heard of that before.  It knocked out all the navigational instruments and the pilot was flying blind. When we got off the plane, he was as white as a sheet, and he said, "In all my millions of miles, I've never had an experience like this."  Well, I didn't know it, how serious it was – oh, I knew it was serious – but when I got to Washington, D.C., the next morning we rode the bus from that place to the airport, and I got to the desk, and the girl said, "Oh, you were on that plane that was struck by lightning, and the plane has a big hole in it."  I didn't know that, of course.  I'd never heard of that happening. So then I was in Ghana – I had a summer experience where, in those days, most national airlines were not safe.  The flight was delayed again and again and again.  Finally, after some hours, we took off.  In the meantime, I'd gone around witnessing different people – nobody seemed to be interested, and so just as we were off the pad, just barely, there was this big explosion.  So I thought a tire blew out, but we came to a screeching halt and got off, and the motor had blown up, and had we been in the air, we'd be dead. Dennis:          Unbelievable. Bill:                  So I've had a few of these … Bob:                … but it's not the fear of death – we're never sure how we're going to get there, whether it's going to be a bumpy ride, whether we're going to wind up with a disease that takes us, but all of us are headed to the same place. Bill:                  Death is universal, we're all going to die.  That's the reason it's so important to know where we're going while we're still alive. Dennis:          Bill, someday the news will go out around the world, because it will be an international news event of your home-going, and when that happens, we want to honor Christ for what He did in your life, and I'm most certain that will happen through your memorial service and all that occurs after your home-going.  But I'm wondering what you would want the world to know – your final exhortation – because we're going to play a tape of a broadcast like this with you that Bob and I have done and have some of your words on it.  What would be your final exhortation to the world? Bill:                  I would say to all believers – love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.  Seek first His kingdom, obey His commandments, trust His promises, and spend the rest of your life getting to know Him so you can love Him and trust Him and obey Him without any hesitancy.  Vonette and I have talked about this and concluded:  My own desire was to die as I've tried to live – Galatians 2:20 – Bill Bright is crucified with Christ.  And I asked her if she would bury me in an unmarked grave as a testimony of Galatians 2:20, because dead people are dead. She didn't think it was a good idea.  So we agreed that we would have on our tombstone – "Bill and Vonette Bright, slaves of Jesus" – Philippians 2:7, Jesus was a slave.  God the Creator came to earth disguised as a slave.  And Paul speaks of himself, Romans 1:1 – "slave" and Peter and others – so we'd have appropriate references – but Bill and Vonette Bright, slaves of Jesus, because, as you know, we signed the contract in the spring of 1951 – literally wrote out a contract and signed it to be His slaves, and it's the most liberating thing that's ever happened to us.  I want that to be a testimony of the greatest privilege anyone can have – to be a slave of Jesus. Dennis:          Well, I want you to know, over a year and a half ago when the news came that it looked like you were going to be coming back to Florida, where we are here for this interview, to spend your final days and to die, I spent several hours writing you a letter of – just expressing my profound appreciation for being an employee for 33 years of Campus Crusade.  I'm coming up on my 33rd year.  Bill, it's a miracle you didn't fire me. Bill:                  You're too young. Dennis:          But I really – I appreciate you, your life, and I wanted you to know that face-to-face.  I wrote you the letter and expressed that in that letter, God used my dad in my life and some key pastors to disciple me, and I count you right up there at the top with them of men who have had a profound impact on my life. Bill:                  I'm not worthy to hear that, but I was so moved when you expressed your love in that way in the letter.  I treasure that. Dennis:          Well, I know you received quite a few of them, because I would run into guys who had said they had been to visit you, and I thought, "He's not going to have time to die.  He's got too many people lined up to express appreciation," but I love you. Bill:                  Well, you are very special to me, Dennis.  I have shared with many people through the years what an inspiration and challenge you are to me – what a blessing you are, and I'm just honored to be on this program, and I believe, in spite of the way God's already used you, the best is before you, and I predict that in your lifetime your influence will be as great as anything I've been privileged to experience worldwide. Dennis:          You are very kind. Bob:                Well, this has been a treat.  Over the last three days we've been listening to an interview that was recorded just a few months ago with Dr. Bill Bright, the founder and past president of Campus Crusade for Christ, and, boy, there at the end, it was a tender moment. Dennis:          It was and, frankly, I didn't think I was going to have the opportunity to say that face-to-face, Bob.  I had written some very tender words to him privately and had sent them to him because I thought, frankly, he was dying, but it was not something that I intended to do there at the end of our interview, but looking back on hearing those words again, it was a sweet moment, and I don't want our listeners to go away just yet, because at the end I was sitting there, and I was looking at you, Bob, and I really love and appreciate you, and I was thinking, "You know, if I was Bob, I would really like to hear Bill Bright pray for me."  And so I asked him to do that at the end, and he prayed for not only Bob but for me as well … Bob:                … he prayed for both of us … Dennis:          … and I want our listeners to hear that prayer. Bob:                Before we play that, let me let you know that we have copies of Dr. Bright's book on the character of God, the attributes of God.  It's called "God:  Discover His Character."  You can call 1-800-FLTODAY to request a copy or you can go online at FamilyLife.com.  Either way, we can have the book sent to you.  This is something you can use in your quiet time, you can use it for a group Bible study, you can use it for family devotions.  If you're home schooling, you can use it for your Bible curriculum with your children.  This is fundamental to how we live as Christians.  So let me encourage you to get a copy of this book, make sure it's in your library.  Again, it's called "God:  Discover His Character," by Dr. Bill Bright, and you can call 1-800-FLTODAY to request a copy or order online at FamilyLife.com.                         When you do contact us, if you'd like to get a copy of the complete interview with Dr. Bright – we've only been able to feature portions of it here on FamilyLife Today – but we have the entire discussion available on CD or on cassette, and you can request that resource online at FamilyLife.com or when you call 1-800-FLTODAY. As we played back that conversation, Dennis, I was thinking about the letter that you are going to be sending out to our Legacy Partners here in the next few weeks, where you talk about the fact that we have lost our respect for authority and our fear of God.  When we do know God, we develop a reverence and awe for who He is, and I appreciated your comments in that letter.  It's part of our regular communication with those folks who so support this ministry on a monthly basis.  Not only do they hear from you, but we often hear from them.  In fact, we had a Legacy Partner in New York state who wrote recently and said, "Pray for guidance on what would be God's perfect plan for us, whether we ought to add a fourth child to our family.  We just finished our most recent Homebuilders study, and our spiritual growth has skyrocketed.  Thank you for your prayers.  We are praying for you."  What a delight to hear from folks who not only support this ministry with their financial gifts but those of you who pray for us as well.  We have just added a whole bunch of new Legacy Partners to this ministry, and thanks to those of you who have joined with us in this effort. If you'd like to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner, or if you'd like to request prayer, you can write to us at FamilyLife Today at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas.  The zip code is 72221.  Once again, it's FamilyLife Today at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas.  The zip code is 72221, or you can make a donation online at FamilyLife.com, and you can also phone in your donation at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY. Well, I hope our listeners have had the chance to listen over the last three days.  If not, I hope you'll get either the cassettes or the CDs of our conversation with Dr. Bill Bright.  That dialog went on for nearly two hours, and at the end of that time, Dennis, you asked Dr. Bright to pray for us, and we wanted our listeners to hear that prayer.  Here is Dr. Bill Bright. Bill:                  Father, Father, Holy Father, we bow in reverence before Your majesty.  We are in awe of Your greatness.  When we think of who You are, we realize how little we are, how small in comparison, and yet even when we were yet in our sins, You died for us.  You love us.  You delight in us, and I thank You that in your sovereignty You chose Dennis and Bob to do what they're doing, and You've anointed them and given them favor and great blessing, and I ask, Holy Father, You'll keep them pure, keep their motives pure, their hearts pure, their attitudes, their desires, that they will be men of God after Your heart.  There will be no sin in their lives that will hinder Your working in and through them.  That is they speak day after day to millions of people, and that number, O gracious God, I pray will increase by the millions.  They will be channels of Your love, Your forgiveness, Your grace, to the multitudes of earth.  I pray for the day when their ministry will literally encircle the globe, where millions upon millions, day after day, will be drawn closer to You, will love You and trust You and obey You because of their influence.  Lord Jesus, bless their families – their families and their children's children's children yet unborn, that they may always love You, serve You, trust You, obey You, and that the legacy of these men will go on and on until You return.  Blessed Holy Father, thank You once again for these men whom You have chosen, whom You have anointed, whom You have empowered and may all glory, honor, worship, and praise go to You.  We pray it in the name of the One whose name is above everything, the Lord Jesus Christ.  Amen. Bob:                FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.   We are so happy to provide these transcripts for you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com  

A Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 1) - Bill BrightA Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 2) - Bill BrightA Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 3) - Bill BrightFamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Finish the RaceDay 2 of 3 Guest:                    Bill Bright From the series:   Reflections of Life:  A Personal Visit With Bill Bright  Bob:                There is a problem within the church today.  According to Dr. Bill Bright, there are a lot of people who say they love God when many of them don't really know Him. Bill:                  The average person has a superficial view of God, and you can't love someone you don't know, you can't trust someone you don't know, you can't obey someone you don't know.  So the most important thing is to find out who God is, discover His character, and just love, trust, and obey Him. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Thursday, February 20th.  Our host is the Executive Director of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Today – a conversation with a man who has spent his life introducing people to their Creator.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.  You've been asked a number of times by people that question – if you could have dinner with any four people, living or dead, who would you invite to your dinner party and probably stopped and considered that question and thought about the Apostle Paul or about King David or whoever you might choose to be at your dinner party.                         I would imagine that there would be many listeners who, when asked that question, would have on their list, the opportunity to invite Bill and Vonette Bright to that dinner party and just to be able to interact with them about a life of faithfulness to Christ that God has honored in a remarkable way. Dennis:          You know, when I was a young man starting out right after college, I had no idea how Bill Bright's life would impact mine initially, from a distance.  But here in the last dozen or so years, I've had the opportunity to have many, many meals with Bill, to have personal time with him, and you and I had the opportunity to fly down to Orlando and sit in their living room and just have a sweet chat with an 81-year-old man who is suffering from a very serious illness … Bob:                … he's got a pulmonary fibrosis … Dennis:          … right – that has taken away 60 percent of his lungs' capacity, and, Bob, you and I both left those interviews, which we started on yesterday's broadcast, and if you missed it, I would encourage you to call and get the tapes and get the entire interview, because it's a great reminder from a man who has lived his life well, about what is really important.  And one of the things I wanted to ask him about and interview him about was the subject of money, because there's a lot of great stories about how Bill Bright personally has approached money and his own personal wealth, which he doesn't have a lot of personal wealth. Bob:                In spite of the fact that he has written a number of books and at one point was handed a check for $1 million. Dennis:          Right, he won the Templeton Award and gave that money immediately and invested it in Campus Crusade for Christ for the purpose of prayer and fasting. Bob:                In fact, I think he talks about that in the section of the interview we're going to hear today, because you did quiz him about the issue of wealth and how we handle our money and, in fact, that's where we'll pick things up today.  This is Part 2 of an interview done recently with the former president and founder of Campus Crusade for Christ, Dr. Bill Bright. Dennis:          You have rubbed shoulders with people who have had enormous wealth in your 81 years of life.  You've been a part of seeing people invest literally tens of millions, hundreds of millions, billions of dollars in the kingdom work.  What advice would you have for the man, the couple, who really want to use their lives and their wealth for the glory of God? Bill:                  Well, first of all, wealth is a gift of God.  It all belongs to Him.  At best, we are stewards.  There is no one who could say, "Look, I've accumulated this vast fortune.  I did it with my own ability."  Everything is a gift, even the breath which we breathe, and I'm on oxygen 24 hours a day, so I appreciate breath as a gift of God.                           But anyone who thinks that they are responsible for their vast wealth is not thinking logically.  There are many, many factors that contribute to vast wealth, and so I say to men and women of wealth – live a good life.  Enjoy yourself, but you should not be extravagant and don't destroy your grandchildren by leaving them large sums of money.  Take care of sending them to college or whatever they may need but be sure you do not spoil your children and your grandchildren and future heirs by leaving a trust that will cause them to be lethargic, complacent, and never develop the skills which you've developed because you had to.                         Remember, it's all God's money, and you're going to be held accountable in a very real way when you get to heaven, if you make it, and if your money and your wealth and your material possessions are your god, you won't make it.   Bob:                Have you seen people leave money to children or grandchildren and that lethargic complacency that you're talking about – have you seen those who were destroyed by … Bill:                  … absolutely, absolutely.  I think of a tragic situation – a couple came to me one day.  They had worked hard together.  They had built a fortune.  They had one daughter, and she married an atheist who hated God, and they said, "What are we going to do with that money?"  I said, "Whatever you do, don't leave it to your daughter and your grandchildren, because he will use it for purposes that are contrary to everything you stand for.  Give it away while you're alive.  Take care of them in a modest way but don't give that money to your atheistic son-in-law," who wouldn't even allow his children to go to Sunday school.                         Well, their love for their children overruled that, and they left it to the family, and you can imagine what happened to it.  It was a tragic situation.  They'll be held accountable for this.  It's well known that people who inherit large sums of money in their youth generally are not properly motivated to maximize their gifts.  So they drift through life, living a life of ease, and they literally become parasites on society.  And, as you know, in parts of the world where there is the class of the super-rich, they're usually very decadent.  That's not always true but all too often extreme wealth clouds the thinking of the recipients of that wealth – bigger homes, bigger cars, a greater opulence and extravagance instead of "Lord, this is all yours.  How can we use it to bring greater glory, greater honor, and greater praise to You." Bob:                Does it seem to you that sometimes those who don't have any spiritual convictions are more generous and more inclined to give?  I'm thinking of Ted Turner giving millions of dollars to the United Nations or Bill Gates setting up a foundation for vaccinations around the world.  I sometimes wonder if we ought to take a lesson from some of these folks. Bill:                  Well, one should never question another's motives – why they give – but there are many tax benefits, many considerations, and I pray that those who God, whether they believe it or not, God uniquely blessed.  I think back on my own career as a businessman.  I started my business with a modest capital, and because of the influence of two men who were kind of like fathers to me – they had no sons of their own – and they were among the leaders in the whole confection industry.  They helped promote my merchandise – Bright's Brandied and Epicurean Foods – whenever people came to their businesses, and they were two of the top men in the nation.  They would promote my merchandise, because they liked me, and they liked my merchandise.                         I wasn't a believer, but at least one of the men, I know, was a believer.  The other one, I'm not sure of, but they helped me tremendously.  So, as a kid, in my early 20s, I was experiencing phenomenal success, and yet I can't say I was smart, I was brilliant, I did this, I did that – God arranges all these things, and I was able to succeed in the measure I did because of many factors.                         So anyone who is wealthy would have to say, if he thinks clearly, "I had a lot of help from God working through people," and I look back on my own business career; I have to say God orchestrated all these many wonderful things preparing me for the day when I'd be born into His family, and He could show me a whole new way of life. Dennis:          Bill, you're still highly motivated, even at 81 years of age.  You're on oxygen 24 hours a day; your lungs are only working at about 40 percent of capacity – what gets you out of bed in the morning? Bill:                  Well, my love for Jesus.  You know, people ask me "What's the most important thing we could pray for you?"  And I always respond, "Pray that I will never leave my first love."  Love God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind and, of course, love your neighbor as yourself, love your enemies.  So my love for Him and my desire to please Him, to obey Him, He is my Master, my Lord, and I can't think of any activity in which I could be engaged that is more important than pleasing Him. And, of course, I say all that, including my precious wife.  She is the joy and delight of my heart.  We've been married over 54 years and all I can do is thank God at what an incredible, wonderful, fantastic wife He has given me – and lover and partner and friend in Vonette, and I encourage every man out there who wants to live a fruitful, wonderful life, to love your wife as Christ loved the church, even if you do it for selfish reasons, and you can't really do it for selfish reasons, because loving your wife has to be supernatural with His enabling, but if you don't have a happy wife, you're not going to have a happy heart.  And you need to give attention to your dear, beloved, precious spouse, who is a gift of God until death do us part, and don't ever think of divorce as a way out.  You find someone as God has led you to be married, or if He should lead you in the future to be married, remember, obey the Word of God; love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it – and sacrificial living. Dennis:          Bill, Bob and I – and I'm taking our average age together here, because Bob's about to correct me out of this, but we're approximately 30 years behind you in the race. Bob:                I'm a little farther behind than Dennis.  I'd just like to make that clear. Dennis:          And it's not that I'm that much older, Bill, than he is … Bill:                  … maybe a couple of days. Dennis:          Yeah, a couple of days, a couple of days older than Bob – certainly not more mature, though.  But what advice would you have for a man who wants to finish well?  I mean, if God grants strength and favor, Bob and I will live another 30 years.  What exhortation would you give us, as men, and just to men in terms of how they run the race and end up at the finish line like you are, still sprinting at the end? Bill:                  Well, you remember, Paul writes to Timothy – chapter 4, verses 7 and 8 – "I've fought a good fight, I've finished the race, and I've been faithful."  I would say the number-one priority – love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and that requires time in the Word.  You can't live a godly life unless you're taking God's Word in your daily moment by moment.  Communicate with God in prayer.  Prayer is like breathing.  We pray and talk to Him.  So love Him, trust Him, obey Him, and in order to all this, you have to know who He is. So if you have a superficial view of God, you need to begin to study the attributes of God.  That's the reason I wrote the book, "God:  Discover His Character," three or four years ago, because the average person has a superficial view of God, and you can't love someone you don't know; you can't trust someone you don't know; you can't obey someone you don't know.  So the most important thing is to find out who God is, discover his character, and just love, trust, and obey Him. Bob:                You see what Dennis has got in his hand there, don't you? Bill:                  I just happened to see that. Dennis:          I have a card that, Bill, you discovered the power of lamination before Bob did, but you laminated a card here that is entitled the name of your book, "God:  Discover the Benefits of His Attributes."  And on this card, on the front and back, are listed different attributes of God. Bill:                  Thirteen attributes. Dennis:          Thirteen attributes, and I'm not going to ask you to name all 13, although I'm confident you could do it. Bill:                  I memorized and meditate on them almost every day and night.  I wake up in the middle of the night and while I'm going back to sleep, I will run through different ones and just praise the Lord for who He is. Dennis:          Well, what I want you to do, and I was going to ask you this question, anyway, but you've taken me there – out of these 13 what three are the most meaningful? Bill:                  They're all important.  I can't … Dennis:          … I know they're all important, and I knew you were going to say that, but as you have meditated and have gotten to know God, and as He has revealed Himself to you, could you name three that are closest to you in your walk. Bill:                  I wouldn't say three are more important than the rest, but God is sovereign.  He rules in the affairs of men and nations.  He controls everything.  We think we're smart, and we're really dummies compared to Him.  After all, look at – study the human eyeball or the corpuscle, or anything about any of His creation, and you realize we're just dummies.  So He is sovereign.  He lifts up, and He puts down.  And then He is love. Dennis:          I'm going to stop you there, because I want to read what you wrote on the card – "Because God is sovereign, that's who He is, I will joyfully submit to His will." Bill:                  Yes. Dennis:          So it's more than just an intellectual realization that there is One who rules absolutely. Bill:                  I put the word "joyfully" in there especially, because it's not just kind of a duty.  God is sovereign, so I'm going to be – I'm just going to resign myself to the fact that He is in charge, and it's going to be a boring drudgery.  No, God is in charge, and it's a joyful journey to know that He's in charge.  If I didn't know He was in charge, now I'm breathing on oxygen for the last couple of years – I would probably be kind of anxious at times.  But God is in charge.  Nothing happened.  You know, you read Acts 4 – "Nothing happens to you and me that is not with His approval."  Satan has no power over us except that which God allows.  Everything is filtered through His love.                          You have cancer, you have a heart attack, you have a stroke, you have financial problems – what do you do about it?  Well, Paul writes, "Rejoice."  James writes, "Rejoice.  In all things give thanks."  Well, you know, one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned, which I learned maybe 40 years or so ago is that all things – give thanks.  Rejoice in adversity as well as blessings. Dennis:          And you can do that because you know there is One. Bill:                  I know there is a sovereign God.  He rules in the affairs, and when I say thank you, even through my tears I'm demonstrating faith, and the scripture says without faith it's impossible to please God.  That which is not of faith is sin.  The judged shall live by faith.  So I'm saying, when I praise God that I'm wearing this tube, breathing oxygen, I'm praising God out of a joyful heart not out of resignation, and then, of course, the love – God's love for me is unconditional.  Because God is love, he is unconditionally committed to my well-being and, you know, you could spend an hour talking about the love of God.  Nothing can separate us from the love of God, no matter how even we sin and grieve Him, His love reaches out to us.                         Which brings me to the third attribute, and I hate to leave out any of those 13, and, of course, there are many others – is mercy – because of His mercy.  If I confess my sins, He is always faithful and just to forgive me of my sins, because of His mercy. Dennis:          Right.  Bill, you mentioned your book, "God:  Discover the Benefits of His Attributes."  I've lost count of how many books you've written … Bill:                  … about a hundred … Dennis:          … you're writing them faster than I can read them.  It's over 100 books? Bill:                  Over 100 books and booklets. Dennis:          Okay. Bill:                  And thousands of articles. Dennis:          Bob gets onto me for asking these questions, but I'm going to ask you – do you have a favorite? Bill:                  I would say probably the best book I've ever written is "God:  Discover His Character," because it deals with the attributes of God, and you – you know, I've written on the Ten Commandment, living supernaturally in Christ … Dennis:          … you've written about the person of Jesus Christ … Bill:                  … the person of Jesus, prayer, on and on and on, but getting to know God, His marvelous attributes, you realize everything else falls into place. Bob:                Well, again, today we've been listening to Dr. Bill Bright, founder and past president of Campus Crusade for Christ rehearsing the attributes of God, which is a healthy exercise for all of us all the time, isn't it? Dennis:          It is, and if there's anything I've learned from Bill Bright is that we need to not only talk about God and what He's doing in our lives, but we need to know Him, and we need to continue to pursue Him to get to know Him and a part of that comes, Bob, as we understand the qualities that we use as human beings to describe little facets of God's character, and I do think, and I agree with Bill, this is the greatest book, this book on the character of God that Bill Bright wrote.  This is his greatest book he's ever written. Bob:                The book is called, "God:  Discover His Character," and we have it available in our FamilyLife Resource Center.  This is a book that is great for private devotions, it's a book that parents can use in family time with the children to help introduce the children to the greatness of our God.  If you'd like to get a copy, you can call 1-800-FLTODAY or you can request a copy online at FamilyLife.com.  Again, the title is "God:  Discover His Character," by Dr. Bill Bright.                         When you get in touch with us, you may also want to request either cassettes or CDs of our complete interview with Dr. Bill Bright.  We have only been able to feature portions of it here on FamilyLife Today, but if you'd like to hear the entire conversation, you can ask about those tapes or about CD copies of the interviews when you contact us again, at 1-800-FLTODAY or, if you'd like to, you can order online at FamilyLife.com.                         I was thinking about Dr. Bright's book, and I was thinking about our mission at FamilyLife to effectively develop godly families who change the world one home at a time.  If we're going to succeed in that mission of developing godly families, then we have to make sure that our families know the God we want to reflect in our own character and in our own lives, and FamilyLife is committed to that spiritual agenda. We want husbands and wives and moms and dads to be centered on the priority of God's Word in your marriage and in your family.  We are joined in that agenda by a whole lot of folks around the country who are FamilyLife Champions or Legacy Partners – in fact, some brand-new Legacy Partners who just joined with us here in the last few weeks, and it's nice to have you folks on board with us.  A Legacy Partner is somebody who, on a monthly basis, makes a contribution to our ministry. We often will hear from those Legacy Partners, Dennis, who write to us and ask us to pray for them.  In fact, I just saw that we've gotten a note from a 69-year-old grandmother in South Dakota who is raising two boys – she's raising a 12-year-old and a 16-year-old, and I don't know the circumstances that have her raising those young men, but she said, "Please pray for me.  I need strength and patience."  And we do take those requests for prayer seriously, and our team joins in praying for folks who write to us with those kinds of requests. If you'd like to find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner and joining with us financially or if you'd like to write to us with a prayer request, our mailing address is FamilyLife Today at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas.  Our zip code is 72221.  Once again, it's FamilyLife Today at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas, and our zip code is 72221.  You can also get in touch with us by calling 1-800-FLTODAY.  You can donate over the phone or you can make an online donation at our website at FamilyLife.com. Well, tomorrow we will hear the concluding portion of our conversation held recently with Dr. Bill Bright, the past president and founder of Campus Crusade for Christ.  I hope you can be back with us for that. I want to thank our engineer today, Robbie Neal, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today. FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.   We are so happy to provide these transcripts for you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com 

A Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 1) - Bill BrightA Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 2) - Bill BrightA Visit With Bill Bright During His Last Days (Part 3) - Bill BrightFamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Lessons LearnedDay 1 of 3 Guest:                    Bill Bright From the series:   Reflections of Life:  A Personal Visit With Bill Bright  Bob:                Throughout his life and his ministry, Dr. Bill Bright has had a single focus – The Great Commission – that Christ would send us into all the world to preach the Gospel to all men.  Here is Dr. Bill Bright. Bill:                  The average Christian does not realize that his loved ones, neighbors, and friends, are going to hell.  Now you say – would a loving God send people to hell?  No – God has put a cross at the entrance of hell, and the only way anybody can go to hell is to reject God's love and God's forgiveness. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Wednesday, February 19th.  Our host is the Executive Director of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Today we talk with the man who has made The Great Commission his life's objective, Dr. Bill Bright.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Wednesday edition.  It was not long ago that you and I had the opportunity to sit down and have a conversation with a Christian leader and, frankly, two years ago if you had said we would have had that opportunity in the fall of 2002, I would have said it won't happen, because the Christian leader, in this particular case, Dr. Bill Bright – well, everyone thought that he would not live much longer. Dennis:          Right, and there were a number of us who wrote Bill letters, tributes; we made phone calls.  I still remember a great conversation I had with him that I thought would be my last, and he asked me to speak at an event, and I thought, "You rascal, you've done it again.  You've gotten one more thing out of me.  You're not even going to be here then," but Bill Bright is a great man.  His life is not over.  He is showing us how to finish strong, all the way to the end. He only has about 40 percent of his lung capacity due to the disease that he has, but he's writing books, he's doing interviews, he's taking a limited number of speaking engagements and, Bob, I came to you a few months ago, and I said, "It's time we went to Orlando and sat in Bill Bright's living room and talked with him again.  He's now lived for a couple of years longer than either you or I thought he would.  Let's go find out what he's learned." Bob:                And that conversation that we had in his living room in Orlando was just a relaxed conversation where we peppered him on a variety of subjects, but it was so refreshing. Dennis:          Yeah, and it was really a sweet time.  For those who don't know who Bill Bright is, and there are some who perhaps don't – Bill is the founder and past president of Campus Crusade for Christ.  He is the author of the "Four Spiritual Laws", which has – I suppose there are billions of "Four Spiritual Laws" that have been reproduced around the world – people sharing their faith.  Bill has been used mightily by God to touch the world, to touch nations, but he also was used mightily in my own life and yours, too, Bob, and I think by the time our listeners listen to this interview, along with the next couple of days, Bill Bright will touch you deeply as well.  Let's listen to Dr. Bill Bright. Bob:                You've talked about being on your way to the grave.  You know, there are some who are surprised that we're even having this conversation today, because there was a time just a few years ago I remember hearing you and Brant Gustafson together talking about being ready for heaven and, of course, Brant is there, you're here.  How have you processed all of that over the last several years? Bill:                  Well, just before Easter a year ago, I came home from California to die.  I said to Vonette that I was choking and fainting and all the first signs of what they told me what happened at Mayo's and the Jewish Institute in Denver and my local doctor –"What you have is horrible."  He tried to get my attention, and when I received word I was dying, I said, "Praise the Lord," because, you know, you can't lose with a believer.  It's win-win.  If you die, you go to heaven; if you stay here, you keep on serving Him.  So I had begun to praise the Lord.  He thought I'd lost my sanity, and he said – then he really began to rebuke me – he said, "You have a horrible disease.  You're going to die the most horrible kind of death" – he's a heart specialist and been my doctor for 30 years – and he felt he could tell me that.  Most doctors wouldn't.  And he said, "It's worse than cancer, it's worse than heart trouble, you're just going to choke to death."                         And so I was choking, and I came home to die.  So when I got off the plane, a couple – Jack and Pearl Galpin [sp] had befriended this Russian doctor, and they insisted that she come and examine me.  Now, here's a Ph.D, a research scientist, seven years in charge at Chernobyl, and she had no place to live except the home of the Galpins, who befriended her.  So she came to live in our home, treated me three times a day, and by the end of the 30 days, I began to have new life, and I'm awed at how good I feel. Dennis:          You know, there's a story I want to just tell real quickly, because I want our listeners to know this – there's a real sense in which God used a Russian doctor in your life to keep you alive, and that really can be, I think, tied back to something you did years ago with your retirement savings.  You actually – you and Vonette – actually gave away your retirement to start an outreach in Moscow when the Iron Curtain dropped.  You gave away your retirement, and now here, at the end of your life, what does God use to bless you back, but a Russian whose country had benefited from your sacrificial act of giving, and I think, you know, that's the kind of thing that God in heaven, I think, must have a big grin about.                         He goes, "Bill Bright, you are a termite," you know, "Dennis Rainey, you are, too, but I'm going to show you what I want to do." Bill:                  Oh, He's awesome. Dennis:          I'm going to use somebody from that country to bless you. Bill:                  You know, it's interesting – Vonette and I were led by the Lord to give my retirement pension to build a New Life Training Center at Moscow State University, and one day I'm sitting in the tent 15 years later, recuperating and enjoying the Lord as we're chatting together, and it is as though the Lord said to me in a way that – no question about it – "I sent Dr. Ivanova to help you because you made the widow's mite investment in Moscow State University."                          Now, I began to sob.  I was overcome, because, frankly, there was no question what he was saying to me – that he was pleased by that.  I didn't do it for credit, I didn't make a big issue of it, and I wouldn't have brought it up if you hadn't, but you cannot outgive God, and though, as a movement, we had spent tens of millions of dollars sending Jesus films and Bibles and holding teacher convocations all over Russia and the other republics, but the Lord didn't seem to refer to that.  He referred to what I did first, and that was awesome. Dennis:          You undoubtedly have envisioned where you're going. Bill:                  Oh, heaven is awesome.   Dennis:          To your best extent – obviously, you've never been there – but you've read about it, you know the One Who resides there, you've been walking with the One Who resides there – share what you expect? Bill:                  Eyes not seen, ears not heard what God has prepared for those who love Him.  Heaven is going to be indescribably beautiful – it's not going to be, it is – and I remember as a lad, my precious, saintly mother would often say, "I can hardly wait to go to heaven."  Now, she loved her husband, my father.  She loved seven children.  She was the pillar of the community.  If anybody needed any help, they would always come to my mother.  She was truly a saint.  But I didn't understand what she was saying until I became a believer and now I look forward, with her, with great anticipation, to heaven.  Everything we experience here on earth – all the most elegant and opulent kinds of experiences – cannot compare with what awaits those who believe.                           Here's my logic – the God who spoke – and astronomers say at least 100 billion, 200 billion galaxies were flowing into space, and He holds it all together with the word of His command.  The same God became a man – the God-man, Jesus of Nazareth, died on the cross for our sins, was raised from the dead, and now lives within us, and He said, "I'm going to go to prepare a place for you, and then I'll come back and get you."                         Now, this God who created all this unbelievably beautiful, wonderful universe, you know is going to do a special creative job in preparing heaven.  Heaven is going to be the golden, golden gem of the universe, and whatever our minds can conceive of will fall infinitely short of what heaven is like. Bob:                Were you disappointed when you started getting better? Bill:                  Well, I must tell you, I was excited about going to heaven.  You know, when you heard the interview with Brant Gustafson and myself, we were on a race.  We both were looking forward to going, and we weren't sure – we were saying, "I'll beat you there." Dennis:          Yeah, well, he beat you, didn't he? Bill:                  Yeah, he did – and dear, dear Brant – he was a marvelous, wonderful friend … Dennis:          … yeah, I love him, too. Bill:                  A beloved brother – but here I am doing, in a sense, the most creative thing I've ever done.  In the last 18 months I've put almost 100 hours of the best of my 100 books and booklets on blue screen technology – video – where I can use it for interactive training of millions of people through the years long after I'm with the Lord, and Andrew Murray has been dead 150 years, is still influencing millions of Christians.  Oswald Chambers has been dead over 100 years, is still influencing even the President of the United States.  So here we are, I'm building up a library of books and videos, and I've been able to do that more since I learned I'm dying than any other period in my life.  And then God led a man by the name of James Davis and me to start, as a part of the Crusade ministry, Global Pastures Network, where our goal is to help start 5 million house churches in the next 10 years, and we're working with all major denominations.  We're working with scores of para-church groups, and it's not just a Campus Crusade for Christ project, though it's directed by Crusade under the leadership of Dr. Steve Douglas, but it's a partnership where the leaders of Southern Baptists, Assemblies of God, Presbyterians, and Methodists and many other groups – over 70 denominations and scores of para-church groups are involved. So when I look back over what's happened in the last 18 months, I would have to say I'm glad the Lord let me stay here, and I don't want to stay one second longer than He wants me here. Dennis:          You haven't retired? Bill:                  (laughs) No – I've re-fired. Dennis:          You have re-fired.  What are your dreams if the Lord gives you another 18 months? Bill:                  Well, I would just want to see everything I'm now doing increased, expanded, developed.  But there's one very important thing that is really on my heart in addition to the others, and that is to call America back to the Bible and back to the God of the Bible.  I mentioned that Brad, our son, has written this book, "God is the Issue."  I've written a book on the attributes of God, " God Discovers Character," and "The Year of the Bible.  So we're working on a strategy to take those three – "God is the Issue," "The Year of the Bible," and "God Discovers Character," and do an evangelistic thrust in every community of America, and I can't think of any better way to announce it than your radio program, because, you see, if we get back to the God of the Bible, revival comes.                          And, you know I've fasted and prayed 40 days each year for the last nine years for revival for America, the world, and The Great Commission to be fulfilled.  So I am believing that God is going to raise up the kind of leaders that are necessary in every community of America to make this happen.   Dennis:          Bill, you described heaven as a place you long to go for.  Your face lit up.  I want you to do something you may have never been asked to do – how would you describe hell? Bill:                  Oh, oh, oh – I've just written a book, "Heaven or Hell:  The Ultimate Choice," and hell is an awesome, horrible, indescribably cruel, terrible place, and the average Christian does not realize that his loved ones, neighbors, and friends, are going to hell, and because he doesn't realize there is a hell that is so horrible there are no human words to describe it – this agony for all eternity.  Now you say "Would a loving God send people to hell?"  No.  God has put a cross at the entrance of hell, and the only way anybody can go to hell is to reject God's love and God's forgiveness.  Christ died for all people – Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, everybody – and He's not willing that any should perish.                         Peter writes, "God has delayed His return in order that more people might have a chance to receive Christ."  So God is not being unfair, but He is a just God, He's a holy God, a righteous God, and if we insist on violating His laws and disobeying Him, we are choosing to follow the kingdom of darkness – Satan – and I'm sobered by this.  Hell is a terrible place.  Heaven is an incredibly beautiful place, and as we read in Colossians 1:13 and 14, God has liberated us out of the darkness and gloom of Satan's kingdom and brought us into the kingdom of His dear Son Who bought our freedom with His blood and forgave us all our sins.                         To everyone who is listening to me, take serious what I'm saying and what Dennis and Bob are saying – there are only two kingdoms in this world – Christ's kingdom and Satan's kingdom – and you and your loved ones are a member of either one of those, and you can't be a member of them both, and if you are playing footsies with the ways of the world and being enamored with the things of the world, you are being deceived by the enemy of your soul.  God prepared hell for Satan and his angels, not for you and me.  But if we insist on following Satan, we will go to hell where he is.  I just want to stand on the street corners and say, "Stop, stop, listen to me, you're on your way to heaven or hell, and there aren't any alternatives.  You're a member of one of two kingdoms – there aren't any other kingdoms," and we need to proclaim that. Dennis:          And to that person, Bill, right now, who is listening, who is going, "I don't want to go there.  I don't want to go to a place of spiritual torment, of emotional grief and of judgment.  I want out of that kingdom.  I want to make sure I'm in God's kingdom – a place of peace, a place of beauty, a place of knowing God, seeing Him, and experiencing His love face-to-face."  What should that person do right now? Bill:                  I'd like to ask everyone who has that desire to pray with me.  I'd like to lead them in prayer. Dennis:          That's good. Bill:                  Just, phrase-by-phrase, you quote after me.  Now, Jesus promised us – before we pray – "If you hear My voice and open the door, I'll come in."  If He is speaking to you through this program or any other program, don't you hesitate for a moment.  You may never have another opportunity like this, because God's grace does not always continue.  There's a time when He says, "I will withdraw My blessing from you."  Now, I ask you, if you really want Jesus in your heart, pray this prayer with me, phrase-by-phrase.  Pray it aloud if you're in a position where you can do so – if not, silently – "Lord Jesus, I know You're the Son of God, I know You died on the cross for my sins.  Come into my life, forgive my sins, change my life, make me the kind of person You want me to be." God bless you.  Don't miss out on His plan for you.  He loves you.  He died for you.  He reaches out to embrace you.  Now don't turn Him away.  Follow Him to your last breath, and He will never fail you.  God bless you. Bob:                That, of course, is Dr. Bill Bright, who has shared those sentiments over the last 50 years over and over and over again – calling men and women to faith in Christ and then to service to their Master throughout their lifetime. Dennis:          That's right, and I have to turn to the audience right now and say to that woman who is listening, that man – if you do not know where you will spend eternity after hearing an 81-year-old man who is nearing the end of his life, give you an eternal perspective that there are two kingdoms – the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness, of the devil, wouldn't you like to be sure you are headed toward the kingdom of God? It's a gift.  It's a gift that comes from God by His grace if we will yet receive it by faith in Him and His Word and basically Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins.  We must receive Him.  We must trust Him.  We must ask Him to be our Savior, our Master, our Lord, and I would just challenge you, right now – if you've not made that discovery, if you do not know the Creator of the Universe and are not walking with Him, there is no better time than right now. Put aside excuses, lay aside that obstacle, that burden, that person in the church that has kept you from receiving Christ and come right now.  Just come to Him and kneel and ask Him – Lord Jesus be merciful to me, a sinner.  Come into my life, forgive my sins, be my Master, my Lord, and begin to make me who You created me to be.  Pray that prayer right now in faith, and I just want to remind you, it's not the words of your mouth, but it is the attitude of your heart of coming to God that I believe establishes a relationship with the Almighty God. Bob:                If you want to know about that relationship with God and want to know what it means to be in a right relationship with God, call us and ask about a book we'd like to send you called "Right With God."  It's a book that will explain to you how a man is made right with God and what it means to be a follower of Christ.  Ask for a copy of that book.  We'll send it at no cost to anyone who prayed along with Dennis, anyone who wants to give his life to Christ today.  Call 1-800-FLTODAY and ask about the book, "Right With God."                         Let me also mention that we have our entire visit with Dr. Bill Bright available on audiocassette or CD.  If you'd like to hear the entire conversation with Dr. Bright – we've had to edit it here for broadcast purposes – but you can hear the unedited dialog on cassette or on CD, and in our conversation with Dr. Bright, we had the opportunity to ask him about the books that he has written, and he said that his favorite of all of those books was a book called, "God: Discover His Character," a book about the attributes of our great God, and we have that book available as well.  If you would like to deepen your understanding and your knowledge of who God is, and I'll tell you, all of us can benefit from that exercise, get a copy of Dr. Bright's book.  Again, it's called "God:  Discover His Character," and you can ask for a copy when you call 1-800-FLTODAY or you can request a copy online at FamilyLife.com.                         We always enjoy hearing from our listeners, Dennis.  We just recently heard from a number of our Legacy Partners, many of them writing to request prayer on a variety of subjects, and we do pray for you when you contact us and let us know what your needs are, and we appreciate those of you who are able to help with our financial needs as a ministry, either as a Legacy Partner or as a FamilyLife Champion.  If you would like to make a contribution to FamilyLife or if you'd like to contact us so that we can be praying for you, you can write to FamilyLife at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas.  The zip code is 72221.  Once again, write to FamilyLife Today at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas.  The zip code is 72221.  You can also donate online at FamilyLife.com or you can call to make a donation at 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.                         Well, tomorrow we're going to continue to hear excerpts from our recent dialogue with Dr. Bill Bright, the past president and founder of Campus Crusade for Christ.  I hope you can be back with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Robbie Neal, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.   We are so happy to provide these transcripts for you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com 

Wisdom from the Wizard of UCLA (Part 1) - John WoodenWisdom from the Wizard of UCLA (Part 2) - John WoodenWisdom from the Wizard of UCLA (Part 3) - John WoodenFamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. Coaching PressureDay 2 of 3 Guest:                    John Wooden From the series:   True Success:  A Personal Visit with John Wooden  Bob:                A basketball tournament is a test.  It's a test of a team's skill and a coach's savvy.  But long before the players ever show up on the court, it can be a test of an individual's character as well.  At least it was for Coach John Wooden in 1948. John:              I had one black player on my team, and they wouldn't let them play in the tournament, and I wouldn't go without him, because he was a part of the team, and finally they reluctantly said that he could come, but he couldn't stay in the hotel where the teams were staying.  He could have his meals there, providing we would take them in a private room.  So I refused the invitation and wouldn't go. Bob:                John Wooden, who would go on to be come one of the greatest coaches in basketball history, but he was a coach who was known as much for his character as for his basketball prowess.  Stay with us for a conversation with the Coach, John Wooden on FamilyLife Today.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Thursday edition.  You know, this would make one of those great trivia questions that pop up on those sports talk shows from time to time – who was the Indiana Rubber Man? Dennis:          Mm-hm. Bob:                Now, you know and I know, because we had a chance to talk to the Indiana Rubber Man, but I wonder how many of our listeners know that a man who is considered today to have perhaps been the greatest coach of all time in any sport, Coach John Wooden of the UCLA Bruins, was once one of the great players in basketball – both in college basketball and then in semi-pro basketball. Dennis:          That's right.  He is one of two that are in the Basketball Hall of Fame, both as a player and a coach.  The other is Lenny Wilkinson, I believe, and, of course, we talked yesterday about Coach Wooden and a little trip Bob and I made out to Southern California to interview him.  He slipped into the studio with Bob and me, and you need to hang with us today and tomorrow, because at the end of tomorrow's broadcast, I'm going to tell you a cute story about Coach Wooden autographing a book for me.                           Because I did play ball, as Bob mentioned yesterday, in college.  My average was just about the same as Coach Wooden's, in fact – no, it really wasn't. Bob:                A little less than average is what's your average. Dennis:          Yeah, I was less than average, no doubt about it, but he was an All American, as you said, Bob, but he was more than that.  He was a man of, I believe, a simple faith in Jesus Christ and in God and who lived out his commitments to his players, to his family, and to his wife, Nellie, and you're going to hear some touching moments about how this man fulfilled his marriage covenant with his wife. Bob:                Coach Wooden has been known throughout the years as a man of great integrity, great character, and a great molder of men, and if you ask him what he did, he says, "I was just a teacher.  I've taught boys how to play basketball." Dennis:          Yeah, in fact, he almost went into teaching, which is interesting. Bob:                We'll hear about that today.  This is taken from a conversation – an extended conversation – that we had with Coach John Wooden not long ago.  Here is Dennis with Coach Wooden. Dennis:          A story that you tell that I want you to share with our listeners came at the conclusion of your first year at Indiana State University, where you won the conference title, and you received an invitation to play in the NAIA Tournament, but you turned them down.  Why? John:              We had a pretty good year, the first year, and the NAIA Tournaments played in Kansas City – 32 teams then – and I had one black player on my team, and they wouldn't let them play in the tournament.  So even though this was – of the 12 men on the team, he played the least of all, he didn't get to play very much, and I wouldn't go without him, because he was a part of the team.  So I refused the invitation and wouldn't go.                         Now, the next year I had everybody back on this team, exactly the same team, no one came in and beat anybody else out, and so the next year we had a good year, and were invited again, and I refused again, and finally they reluctantly said that he could come, but he couldn't stay in the hotel where the teams were staying.  He'd have to stay someplace else.  He could have his meals there, providing we would take them in a private room.  I said no, I wouldn't do that, but I was persuaded by the NCAA and his parents that we should go; it might help.  So we went, and he stayed with a minister and his wife and came into the hotel from the game.  He didn't get to play very much at all, but that was the first black player that had ever played in that tournament, and I think a few years later an all-black team won.  So we sort of opened the door a little bit. Bob:                You undoubtedly had some players – when you came back and told the team we've been invited to the tournament but we're not going to go because they won't accept this one player – there had to be some guys going, "Coach, I want to go to Kansas City, I want to play on the team.  Let's just go along with their rules."  Didn't anybody raise their hand in protest? John:              I don't think anyone protested.  Some would have liked to have gone, yes, but they didn't.  I knew these men, and most of them I'd had in high school before, and they knew how I felt about things, and there was no problem.  They caused me no problem there. Dennis:          As your career was taking off, you were also in the process of beginning your family.  You had a daughter and a son, and what I wonder is, I wonder how did you juggle the tension of your marriage, your family, your faith, and a demanding profession?  What value in your core, as a man, was your measurement?  How did you juggle it all? John:              I wish Nellie were here to answer that question for you.  Well, Nan, of course, was born in Dayton, Kentucky, when I was down there, and then Jim was born in South Bend two years later, but I tried, definitely tried – Nellie always went to games with me, and I wouldn't leave her to go scout or anything of that sort, unless she couldn't go, not bring basketball home.  I tried not to do that.  Now, can you do that 100 percent – probably not.  But I tried not, and Nellie, when she was interviewed at times, I'd heard her say that, "John never brought the games home.  I could never tell after a practice" – she was practically at all the games – "but never after a practice, I could not tell by his demeanor whether he had a good practice or a bad practice or had problems at all."  And maybe she stretched the truth a little bit there, but I certainly tried not to.  I wanted – next to faith – I wanted family first. Bob:                We had the opportunity once to interview Coach McCartney from Colorado – a football coach who started Promise Keepers, and his wife told us that at the beginning of the football season all of the coaches and their wives would get together for a party that they said was the "Football's Here, Goodbye, Dear," party.  Because they said that from the middle of the summer until the end of whatever ball game you were going to, you rarely saw your husband.  Is the demand of coaching higher today than it was when you were coaching or did you just order your world differently than other coaches did? John:              I don't think demand is any higher, it's just what you make out of it.  You have to be disciplined on what you're doing.  You have to establish your own priorities and then stick to them.  I don't think it's any different, and as far as pressure being on you, the only pressure that amounts to a hill of beans is the pressure you put on yourself.  If you permit outside pressure, alumni pressure, or parental pressure from the outside, if you permit those to influence you, then you're weak.  You better get on with something else, but you'd probably find the same thing someplace else, too. It's like my players – when I'd recruit the player, I'd say, "Now, if you come here, you're going to be unhappy for a while.  You're going to be unhappy.  You're going to be away from home for the first time, you're not going to be the big shot that you were in high school, but you're not going to like it here for a while.  But if you go someplace, it would be the same thing.  You wouldn't like it there, so it might as well be here."  I sort of felt that way about it, and I think that pressure is – when the coaches talk to me about pressures, I say, "Get out, get out, get out."  The pressure amounts to a hill of beans of what you put on yourself.  You've got to put pressure on yourself, do a good job, do the best you can, study, work as you can, but don't let that be all-encompassing.  There are other things more important. Dennis:          How did Nellie keep your family on the track and help John Wooden as a man keep his priorities?  I mean, you undoubtedly had your moments when you would work too hard, too long, and be a little too consumed with it all.  How did she come alongside you – how was she a good helpmate and counterpart to the Coach? John:              Well, she was just a good mother and a good wife, and we had a little disagreement, I remember, one time many, many, many, many years ago, many years before I lost her, we had a little disagreement, and I left the house to go to work without [inaudible], and I should have but when I went to bed that night there was a little note on my pillow with a card, it's still there, it says, "Don't try to understand me, just love me."  And that's it.  I think we had a great relationship more than anything else, and I've said that when we – we talked about this, and, gracious, we're going to disagree on a lot of things, but let's try not to be disagreeable. Dennis:          You had a little tradition that you and Nellie enjoyed right before the game started.  Now, Bob, I remember watching Coach Wooden on TV when college basketball games started being televised, but there was something I missed as an observer, a little tradition that he had with Nellie before the game started. John:              Back when I was playing in high school, she played in the band, and I'd try to position myself where I could look up and see her in the band, and she's always give me a – and I'd give her a wink or a nod, and that continued, you know, in my teaching days.  Before every game, I'd find her and I'd give her a wink or a nod, and so that's probably what you're thinking of.  Superstition?  No, it wasn't superstition, it just made me feel good. Dennis:          Just a little wink. John:              That's right, that's right. Bob:                You wound up as the coach of UCLA because of a snowstorm. John:              Correct. Bob:                Tell us how you got that job. John:              I was considering both UCLA and the University of Minnesota.  That had both offered me the jobs, and I wanted to stay in the Midwest in the Big 10.  UCLA was going to call an hour after Minnesota was going to call.  Minnesota didn't call, and UCLA called, and I accepted.  About an hour later I got a call from Minnesota saying everything was all worked out, and I said, "I'm sorry, I've committed myself.  I can't back out now."  And there was what they called an "unseasonable" snowstorm that had the lines down, and they couldn't get to a phone to call me at the time, they said.  So that's how close it came. Bob:                Why didn't you just hang on until they got on – why did you take the job at UCLA if you wanted to be in Minnesota?  Did you think they were going to not call?  They'd decided to go with somebody else? John:              I suppose I thought that.  I don't remember exactly now.  All I know is they didn't call in time, and I'm a stickler for time.  My players will tell you one of the rules that I had throughout is be on time to your classes, to practice, to the bus – be on time – and if you're not, some action will be taken.  As the years went by, I learned not to tell them what the action would be. Bob:                It didn't matter whether there was a snowstorm or not, they needed to be on time. Dennis:          I want to know, Coach, why you chose coaching.  I mean, you said you loved to teach English, you were a teacher at heart, you could have done a lot of things.  Why did you do it? John:              I went to Purdue to become a civil engineer – that's what I wanted to do, but I didn't know – high school counseling, obviously, wasn't as good in those days, and I didn't know that to get your degree in civil engineering you had to go to civil camp every summer.  Well, I knew I couldn't go to civil camp every summer.  I had to work in the summers, so I couldn't do that.  So I changed to a Liberal Arts course and majored in English, and I knew, from that time on, I'm going to teach.  I enjoyed teaching, as time went by.  I enjoyed it.  I taught English in high school, and I wanted to be a good English teacher, and I enjoyed it, and once I got into it, I had opportunities to get out in other areas where, financially, it would have been better, but I enjoyed teaching.  Who was it said that you find a job that you enjoy, you'll never work a day in your life. Dennis:          And you view coaching as teaching? John:              Of course, it is.  That's all it is.  You're teaching sports.  You've heard some of my players, particularly some of the talkative ones like Bill Walton, will often say in his interviews that coach was teacher. Dennis:          Coach, as you taught, you believed in teaching about the fundamentals. John:              Oh, absolutely. Dennis:          In fact, in coming into this studio, the one thing I regret that I didn't bring in here – I brought you a banana, because I know you like a banana, but I should have brought a pair of socks – athletic socks – into the studio, because you took high school stars – you began with a very simple point of instruction. John:              That's correct.  I taught them how to put on their socks and their shoes.  I wanted no wrinkles in the socks, and I'd show them how to put it on and smooth around the little toe.  Your blisters usually come from around the little toe or the heel area, and I wanted to show them how to do that, because I know if you don't, they just pull them up.  To me, I think, it was just as important thing – a little detail, but little details is what make big things happen. Bob:                You had some players who obviously became players of note not only in college but on into the NBA.  Some of them seem to be outside of the Wooden paradigm, if I can call it that.  You know, Bill Walton does not strike me as the prototypical John Wooden basketball player.  It almost seems like here's a guy who can play the game, but here is a disciplined coach and a player who – well – discipline was not high on his list of virtues, was it? John:              In certain areas, you might say that, but Bill is very dear to me.  For many, many years he calls me three or four times a week from all over, but at the time he played for me, it was a time of the anti-establishment, and he was anti-establishment very much at that particular time.  I was concerned about money and things, but I have no right to determine the politics of my players.  Now, actually, the religion – that's them.  But he's a good student, he's an honor student, he's in the academic hall of fame.  When he came on the basketball floor, you couldn't ask – no one could ask – for a player to be more cooperative, set a great example.  No one worked harder – never a problem in any way.  But he had his little quirks, as we all have, and … Bob:                … what about his facial hair, though?  He did show up one time … John:              … well, he decided I didn't have the right to tell him how to wear his hair, and I said, "You're absolutely right, Bill, I don't have.  All I have the right is to determine who plays, and we're going to miss you." Bob:                You said, "If you want to keep the beard, you're off the team?" John:              That's right. Dennis:          This is an All American you're talking to. John:              That's right. Dennis:          But you drew a line in the sand over the facial hair. John:              I did, I did. Dennis:          And what did Bill do? John:              Then he hurried and got fixed up then. Bob:                He shaved his beard off, didn't he? John:              And he's been asked, "Do you think Coach would have gone through with it?"  And he said, "Well, you know what I did."  If I have a rule, I'm going to stand by it.  But always remember there can be a gray area at times.  There was a time in my teaching that I had no gray area – it was either black or white with me.  But there can be a gray area, and I made two mistakes – I made many, but I know two that I recall that I regret very much because I didn't see the gray area. Bob:                What are those two? John:              Well, I had a rule in high school that smoking was automatic dismissal from the squad for the year, and my finest player, my only center I'd had, I caught him smoking, and I dismissed him.  I had the rule, and I … Dennis:          … and you think it's a mistake now, looking back? John:              Well, he quit school, he never finished school.  He would have gone on to college.  I think I was wrong.  I should have handled it in a different way. Bob:                What was the second thing, you said, that you regretted? John:              I had a player that didn't qualify for his letter.  This was in high school, but he was a fine person that worked very, very hard, and – but, anyway, his dad came in one day and called me and wondered if I'd come out and talk to him.  I did, and he said, "Is Joe going to get a letter?"  I said – no tact ­– I said, "Well, I haven't really decided yet."  And he said, "I'll tell you this" – remember, I'm just a young man – and he said, "I'll tell you, if he doesn't, I'm going to have your job." Dennis:          He threatened you. John:              Yes, he did, and I didn't like that, and I ended up by not giving the boy his letter, and I feel, down deep in my heart, that I would have given him the letter if the dad – for the youngster because of the dad, and that's wrong. Bob:                That's Coach John Wooden from the UCLA Bruins, although, at the time he made that decision that he regretted, he wasn't coaching on a national platform, he was just coaching high school boys back in Indiana.  It's interesting just to listen back to that story and hear it resonate with a coach who cared more about doing the right thing than almost anything else. Dennis:          And, you know, Bob, he was reliving that story before us, and he's 91 years old.  That story occurred 60 years ago, but he really had a deep, profound regret that you could see on his face, as a man, that he had not done what he thought was the right thing, and I think there is a tremendous lesson for us to live lives with no regrets – to do the right thing today, to obey Jesus Christ, His Word, and the commitments to responsibilities we have.  And one of the things He's commanded us to do that I think you can use Coach Wooden to accomplish is Christ has given us the Great Commission, and we're to go and proclaim Him.                         I think this interview with Coach Wooden we've compiled into 107 minutes, two CDs, that would make a great gift to give each of your children's coaches, whether they be a Little League coach, a junior high, high school, college, it doesn't matter.  In fact, Bob, I've reflected on this – many times I wish I'd had these two CDs to have given a coach who maybe was saying a little more than he should be saying; maybe acting a way that he shouldn't have been acting, and I just have to believe that there are some coaches who are going to get these CDs – some dads and some moms who are going to – they're going to think about how they coach, how they behave, how they teach in ways because of this great coach's example.  He is truly like Christ. Bob:                What they're going to hear in the interview with Coach Wooden that you can have character and integrity and self-control and still be a champion.  In fact, you can be one of the greatest coaches who ever lived.  We've got the two-CD set available here on our FamilyLife Resource Center, and whether you want to listen to it yourself or pass it on to a coach or a player, you can contact us at 1-800-FLTODAY, 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.  Ask for the two-CD set entitled "True Succes:  A Personal Visit with John Wooden" when you contact us.  Again, you can order online at FamilyLife.com or you can call 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY. Dennis:          It's a little early yet to be buying a Father's Day gift, but you might think about just getting this and stockpiling this for June. Bob:                That's a great idea.  And when you think about true success, Coach Wooden has mapped out for us what he calls a "Pyramid of Success."  He's taken the character qualities that he thinks are foundational to success – things like industriousness, loyalty and cooperation and initiative and alertness and skill.  There are many of them in this pyramid.  He's put the pyramid together, kind of like an engineer would do, to show that it's possible for anyone to achieve success in any field if these things are true about them.                         We've got his Pyramid of Success.  We've got a video where he explains the pyramid.  We've got the pyramid itself on our website at FamilyLife.com and on a mousepad that you can have at your desk, and then we've got a wallet card that has been laminated that you can carry around where some of Coach Wooden's counsel on living is recorded.  His seven-point creed – that's on a laminated card that we'll send to you, along with the video and the mousepad.  Ask for those resources when you call 1-800-FLTODAY.                           You know, our opportunity to provide these kinds of resources to you really comes as a direct result of folks all around the country who help support this ministry week in and week out with donations. Dennis:          And, Bob, there are two ways that they can join with us.  One is as a Legacy Partner, a monthly donor to our ministry, and there's another group of people who give from time to time – they may make out a check and just send it in and say I can't help you each month, but I can help this month.  You need to know that this ministry is 100 percent dependent upon God to move people like you who benefit from our broadcast to join with us in a partnership, and we need your partnership.  These are important days for you to stand with us. Bob:                Once again, if you'd like to donate to FamilyLife Today, you can do it online at FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY or mail a check to us at Box 8220, Little Rock, Arkansas.  Our zip code is 72221.                           Well, if you ever wondered what it was like to coach a basketball game in the Astrodome with TV lights blaring down on you, a nation watching, 50,000 fans there cheering the home team on, and you're the coach of the opposing team, and you've won 88 games in a row, you're going for number 89 and you lose – do you stay up all night worrying about what happened?  We'll find out when we talk to Coach John Wooden tomorrow.  I hope you can be with us for that.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Robbie Neal [sp], and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.    We are so happy to provide these transcripts for you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would you consider donating today to help defray the costs? Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com 

A Biblical Look at Aging (Part 1) - Howard HendricksA Biblical Look at Aging (Part 2) - Howard HendricksFamilyLife Today® Radio TranscriptReferences to conferences, resources, or other special promotions may be obsolete. What Retirement is NOTDay 1 of 2 Guest:                           Dr. Howard Hendricks From the Series:         What Retirement is NOT________________________________________________________________ Bob:                There are challenges associated with moving into the retirement years.  Many of us have never thought that far ahead.  Here is Dr. Howard Hendricks. Howard:         Retirement has four major problems attached to it, the first of which is income – the financial component; the second of which is health – the physical component; the third of which is housing – your living arrangements; but the fourth and the most important is purpose, meaning, an interest in life.  And the fascinating thing to me, and all of the research proves it, is we're making tremendous progress in the first three, but substantially none in the fourth, because it's the least recognized, and it's the most neglected. Bob:                This is FamilyLife Today for Tuesday, January 18th.  Our host is the president of FamilyLife, Dennis Rainey, and I'm Bob Lepine.  Have you started yet thinking about your purpose and your plan for your retirement years?  Stay tuned.                         And welcome to FamilyLife Today, thanks for joining us on the Tuesday edition.  Whenever you hear that voice, whenever you hear Howard Hendricks' voice, you've just got to get a big grin on your face, don't you? Dennis:          I do, and the reason is he's one of those men who has marked my life over the past – well, I go back all the way to 1970 when I first started slipping into his class as a college student and then as a new staff member on Campus Crusade for Christ staff.  I'd slip in the back of the class at Dallas Seminary … Bob:                You mean you weren't enrolled or anything?  You just snuck in and listened to what he was … Dennis:          Shhhhhh – they'll probably want to charge me.  They got my tuition later on. Bob:                You enrolled, and you took – you said you majored in Hendricks. Dennis:          I majored in Hendricks and got everything he taught in one year, and, folks, if you have ever had a great teacher, you know that great teachers can really mark your life, whether it's a coach, a professor, a Sunday school teacher – they really can impact you.  And Dr. Howard Hendricks who was, for a number of years, the professor of Christian education at Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas, Texas – "Prof" as he was known – really is – he was the finest teacher I've ever sat under, but he was more than just a professor.  He was a man who understood how to motivate men and women. Bob:                Do you remember what it was the first time you heard him teach where you said, "I want to hear more?"  He's a compelling speaker, he's very winsome, but there must have been something about what he was saying or the way he was expressing himself that caused you to go, "This is a man I want to hear more from.  I want to learn and grow." Dennis:          He had the goods.  In all my years at Dallas Seminary, I took five classes from him – not a boring class.  Now, I want folks to think about that – that's a lot of classes.  He was on the edge; he had the message; his wife authenticated his message; and he knew how to challenge and motivate young men who sat in those classes back then; now, young ladies as well, are being motivated by him.                         But he became a good friend.  In fact, we were just laughing the other day when I did a conference with him, and it's one of the great honors of my 34 years of ministry to have teamed up with him now on a couple of occasions for some conferences for Dallas Seminary.  But we were just talking at one of those conferences – I set a record for the most number of laymen brought to his class when I was a student.  I'd bring them in from the highways and the byways and the hedges. Bob:                So you used to sneak in and then, once you enrolled, you started sneaking other guys in? Dennis:          I brought other guys in.  I want to show you how to drink water from a fire hydrant, and Dr. Hendricks is, indeed, a fire hydrant.  And you and I both know, I ran across a series of messages that I'd never heard him give.  It was actually a lectureship sponsored by Dallas Seminary a number of years ago on aging.  And I first said, "You know what?  I want our speaker team that speaks at our Weekend to Remember Marriage Conferences to hear this series," and then I thought, "You know what?  I want you, as a listener, to hear this."  Because I don't think most of us have a very good perspective about aging and retirement and some of the issues we're going to face as we grow older. Bob:                Now, listen, some of our listeners are in their 30s.  Do you think this is going to apply to them? Dennis:          Oh, absolutely.  You know, in fact, if you go to the book of Ecclesiastes, I think it's chapter 12, the author says, "Remember God in the days of your youth," and then he goes on to describe old age.  It's kind of like, now wait a second, you're talking about old age, but why do you exhort us to remember God when we're young?  Well, I think the answer is your understanding of walking with God today as you're young will determine who you become when you're an elderly man, an elderly woman.  And I'm kind of on a little bit of a crusade and a soapbox about wiping out crotchety, gripey, complaining old men and bitter old ladies.  You know, I think we've got enough of them.  I think if anybody ought to have a smile on their face, it ought to be those of us who grow old with Jesus Christ. Bob:                Well, this week, we're going to hear one of the three messages that Dr. Hendricks shared with the FamilyLife Weekend to Remember conference speaker team on the subject of aging, and he was really talking about retirement, which he says is not a biblical concept in the way that most people think about retirement.  Let's listen together.  Here is Dr. Howard Hendricks. [audio clip] Howard:         I want to talk on rethinking retirement – one of the greatest transitions in human experience.  Norman Cousins said it – "Retirement supposed to be a chance to join the winners' circle, has turned out more dangerous than automobiles and LSD.  It is the chance to do everything that leads to nothing.  It is the gleaming brass ring that unhorses the rider.  For many people, retirement is an assignment to no man's land, grossly ill-fitted for Christian culture.  We are producing men and women, a society of unemployed people without a mission, the equivalent of a death sentence."                         It is proven by statistics – we now know that the average person dies within seven years after retirement and increasingly that figure is being changed because it is not uncommon for people to die two years after retirement, and the reason is clear.  There are two lines in every person's life.  There is a lifeline, and there is a purpose line, and the moment the purpose line evaporates, it is just a question of time before the lifeline goes as well.                         Bear in mind that retirement is a recent social phenomenon – the arbitrary age of 65 was set in 1889 by German Chancellor Bismarck, but what has always fascinated me is at that time in history the life expectancy was 55.  So the bulk of the people for whom it was designed never enjoyed the benefits.  And increasing it, as the United States has done, is just as ridiculous.                           Every now and then I hear someone say retirement is not a biblical concept, and it's quite transparent to anyone who knows the Scriptures that it is not the pattern for a born-again, eternally headed individual.  But it's only partially true.  We do have one reference to retirement in the Scripture, and it's found in Numbers 8, verses 25 and 26, where we are informed that the Levites were to retire at age 50; the reason being the task was so arduous, so strenuous that men in the intelligence which God alone provided, said you need to give up the physical ministry of the priesthood.  But what is often overlooked is that He gave them an option.  He said, "I want you to spend the rest of your life mentoring younger priests."                         Now, you may retire from a job.  You may not have the option.  But you never retire from life; you never retire from a ministry.  Stepping into retirement is stepping into entirely different universe with a distinctive lifestyle all of its own.  And I am convinced that this particular transition is, to the believer, one of the highest measurements of your spiritual maturity.                         So today I want to move into two areas.  First of all, examine retirement negatively – what it is not; and then, positively, what it is.   Let's begin with the power of negative thinking, with apologies to Norman Vincent Peale.  I find Peale appalling and Paul appealing.  The more I am exposed to the Christian community, the more I am convinced that some of the sloppiest thinking in all of time totally infects Christians who move into retirement.  So let me give you seven things retirement is not.                         First of all, it is not a reward.  Your reward comes in heaven not on earth.  But many people think it's a reward for good behavior, and the result is they spend their years sliding for home, reaching for the bench at the very time they ought to be tearing the place apart for Jesus Christ. Secondly, it's not a formula.  There is no one-size-fits-all retirement available.  It's a process, but it's a process that is highly individual.  There is no contract that spells out the details and the conditions.  There is no blueprint showing you the way.   Third, retirement is not a retreat.  As a matter of fact, it is exactly the opposite – it is intentional advance, but the key is it involves a gradual adjustment. Number four, it is not, not busy work – something to give you something to do.  It's a balance between leisure and work.  Isn't it amazing how often we suffer from the peril of the pendulum?  We swing to one side or the other.  Throughout our life, we constantly face the danger of worshipping work as an idol, but now we worship leisure as an idol.  And is it any wonder that John finishes an epistle by saying, "Keep yourself from idols."  Number five, it is not self-centered; it's not socially pigging out getting lost in an entertainment glut.  Retirement is meant to be more than for my benefit, and I think that's why an increasing number, even of secular people, are retiring from retirement.  The one positive thing about the baby boom is they live long enough and watched enough older people waste the latter years of their life that they are refusing to go that route.  They are asking for more time for employment where at least it gives them worthwhile to do.  Six, retirement is not guaranteed.  There is no guarantee that those latter years of your life will be successful.  They are the bonus years, but they all depend upon two things – God's part and your part.  No question that God will come through with His part.  The question is, will you and I come through with our part and ultimately that depends on how well prepared you are. And, seventh and last, retirement is not death – we have 100-percent probability on that.  Retirement has four major problems attached to it.  The first of which is income – the financial component; the second of which is health – the physical component; the third of which is housing, your living arrangements; but the fourth and the most important is purpose, meaning – and interest in life.  And the fascinating thing to me, and all the research proves it, is we're making tremendous progress in the first three but substantially none in the fourth, because it's the least recognized, and it's the most neglected. [end audio clip] Bob:                That's Dr. Howard Hendricks talking about some of the challenges that come with aging, specifically the issue of retirement.  It sounds like he could write "The Purpose-Driven Retirement," huh?  I think there's a hit book there for him. Dennis:          I think there is.  You know, what he's challenging us to do is to not think about our retirement in a worldly way, but to think about it in a spiritual, in a biblical way.  And our listeners are going to hear a series later on this spring, as Barbara and I talk about moving from the empty nest into what we are calling "prime time," and I think retirement needs to be prime time.  We need to have that purpose that Dr. Hendricks was talking about.  We need to have realigned our lives in light of the mission God has for us, and we need to get on with life.  We need to be about His work on this planet, because the person who has unplugged from their vocation has some additional time, theoretically, to be able to invest in some eternal pursuits that he may have never had in his or her life before. And I think knowing your purpose, knowing your mission, knowing what your life is all about, is very important, and I'd like to submit to you that Homebuilders, a small group Bible study, ought to be a very attractive ministry for a lot of couples who are moving into this phase of life, into prime time, and they are needing to sink their teeth into something purposeful – something that's going to make a difference for future generations.  Homebuilders is a small-group Bible study that I think can be used in the lives of young couples who are starting out their marriages, their families, and who are going through their own seasonal changes in their family who need help from an older generation. Bob:                And you're thinking that young couples would want to hear what a retired couple has to say about marriage? Dennis:          Absolutely.  I'm younger than some folks who are in this phase right now who are speaking truth and speaking vision and modeling certain realities to me, as a man.  I think all of us ought to have others who are a lap or two ahead of us in the race of life, who can guide us and direct us and make sure we don't waste any of our lives. Bob:                Retirement is not a move from productivity and work and meaning to leisure and enjoyment and recreation.  It's a move from one set of priorities to a new set of spiritual priorities, a new set of spiritual goals that you now have some free time for that you didn't have when you had to punch the clock every day. Dennis:          That's right, and that's why I'd suggest Homebuilders, which is very easy to lead, and I think most folks who are in this phase of life, the prime times of their lives, have the place – they've got a living room that's empty.  There's not any children running around, very few interruptions and, frankly, a lot of couples need to get away from their children for an evening occasionally and hear the biblical blueprints for building a marriage or a family. Bob:                Well, we've got the information, as you would imagine, about Homebuilders on our website at FamilyLife.com.  You can get more information about how easy it is to start one of these groups.  Get some other couples to join with you and experience the fun but also the purpose and the meaning that's wrapped up in being in a Homebuilders group.  Go to FamilyLife.com, or if you want to call 1-800-FLTODAY, someone on our team can give you more information about Homebuilders and how you can get involved in that growing movement of small groups all across the country.                         We also have Dr. Hendricks' message as part of a three-message series on either cassette or CD.  You can call 1-800-FLTODAY to request that series.  That's 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.   Dennis:          Order two copies of this three-CD series – one for yourself and one for your parents – maybe three copies – one for your in-laws.  I just think there's a lot of sloppy thinking when it comes to retirement and what ought to be the prime time of our lives and, frankly, here is a man who is in his 80s – very vigorous, very alive in spite of battling cancer, who is showing us how to finish strong. Bob:                Well, again, go to our website at FamilyLife.com or call 1-800-FLTODAY for more information on the series of tapes or CDs from Dr. Howard Hendricks.  And then let me encourage you to also get a copy of John Piper's book, "Don't Waste Your Life."  A lot of people think that's a book for young people who are just starting out, and I remember Dr. Piper begins the book by talking about a retired couple that moved to Florida and collected seashells.  Do you remember that story? Dennis:          I do. Bob:                His whole premise is you can waste your life no matter what age you are, and you can also have a meaning and purpose for your life at any stage, at any age.  We have copies of that book in our FamilyLife Resource Center as well.                         Again, our website is FamilyLife.com.  If you want to call, the toll-free number is 1-800-F-as-in-family, L-as-in-life, and then the word TODAY.                         Let me say a quick word of thanks to the many folks who have joined with us here at FamilyLife as Legacy Partners.  These are the folks who, on a monthly basis, help provide the financial support for our ministry.  You know, in December we had a lot of folks who wrote to us and who made year-end contributions, and we appreciate all of you who did that, but there's also that group who keeps in mind that we have bills come due in January, and these are the folks who, each month, send a donation of $25 or $30, $50, $100 a month to help support the ongoing ministry of FamilyLife Today. Dennis:          And I'd like to encourage you, if you've been ministered to by the ministry of FamilyLife, would you stand with Bob and me here on FamilyLife Today?  Our Legacy Partners are real difference-makers.  They keep us going. Bob:                You can find out more about becoming a Legacy Partner, again, on our website at FamilyLife.com or just give us a call at 1-800-FLTODAY and say, "Tell me more about this Legacy Partner thing," and someone on our team would be happy to help you understand how you can join the growing team of folks who help make FamilyLife Today possible.                         Well, tomorrow we're going to hear part two of Dr. Hendricks' message on retirement, and I hope you can tune in.  I hope you can call somebody who may be retired or retiring and invite them to tune in for part two of this message as well.                         I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, and our entire broadcast production team.  On behalf of our host, Dennis Rainey, I'm Bob Lepine.  We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of FamilyLife Today.                          FamilyLife Today is a production of FamilyLife of Little Rock, Arkansas, a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ.  ________________________________________________________________ We are so happy to provide these transcripts to you.  However, there is a cost to transcribe, create, and produce them for our website.  If you've benefited from the broadcast transcripts, would   you consider donating today to help defray the costs?         Copyright © FamilyLife.  All rights reserved. www.FamilyLife.com