Podcast appearances and mentions of leslie vernick

Relationship coach Leslie Vernick provides hope and specific steps for moving beyond a traumatic event to take agency for what comes next.

263. Domestic Violence and Abuse: Identifying and Healing from Abusive Relationships with Stacey Womack   Mark 10:27 NKJV "But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”   **Transcription Below**   Questions and Topics We Discuss: Will you teach us about the various types of abuse? How do we respond appropriately and in a Christ-like manner when someone does report abuse? What are your views for having biblical reasons for divorce, specifically as it relates to each type of abuse?   Stacey Womack is an award-winning expert in domestic violence from a faith-based perspective. She founded Abuse Recovery Ministry & Services (ARMS) in 1997 and she is a published author and sought after national speaker. Stacey developed and wrote the curriculum used for ARMS programs, including Her Journey for survivors of abuse and Mankind and Virtue for men and women who have used abusive behaviors. She has assisted tens of thousands of people in recovering from both the receiving and giving of abuse. Her passion has grown ARMS, a small grassroots organization, to now having an international reach.   Abuse Recovery Ministry & Services Website Stacey's Books   Thank You to Our Sponsor: Grace Catering   Other Related Episodes on The Savvy Sauce: 146 Biblical Response to Emotionally Destructive Relationships with Leslie Vernick 148 Overcoming Evil with Good: Recognizing Spiritual Abuse with Dr. Diane Langberg   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   **Transcription**   Music: (0:00 – 0:09)   Laura Dugger: (0:10 - 1:50) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.    Today's episode includes some thematic material. I want you to be aware before you listen in the presence of little ears.    For anyone who feels like they don't have time to cook, but they still desire to have meals that taste just like grandma's, I can't wait to share more about one of my favorite sponsors, Grace Catering Company. Check them out today at gracecateringcompany.com.   Stacey Womack is my guest today. She is the award-winning expert in domestic violence from a faith-based perspective. She is the founder of Abuse Recovery Ministry and Services, which she will refer to as ARMS, and she's also the author of this practical and helpful resource entitled On the Front Lines of Abuse, Strategies for the Faith Community.   Stacey fearlessly answers questions today about what defines abuse, what steps can we take today to discover if we're in an abusive relationship, what does the Bible have to say about abuse and divorce, and so much more. Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Stacey.   Stacey Womack: Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.    Laura Dugger: Would you mind just starting us off by giving us a current snapshot of your phase of life?   Stacey Womack: (1:52 - 2:48) Sure. You know, I've been doing this work for 27 years, but actually I grew up in a pastor's home and married young and had my children young. I have six children, and I have my 13th grandchild on the way, and my first great-grandchild is due in December. And in the midst of homeschooling my kids back in the day, God began to speak to me about ministry that he had for me.   And so, this was the door he opened, even though I'm not a survivor of abuse. And back then I never had planned on starting a nonprofit or, you know, having it be the way it is, never planned on having an income off of it. None of that was a part of the plan.   I was just being obedient to what God had called me to do. And so here we are today, 27 years later, providing services nationally and internationally to victims and survivors of abuse and also working with those who use abusive and controlling behaviors.   Laura Dugger: (2:50 - 3:12) Wow. And abuse is something that's so difficult to understand, and it's a topic that's easy for us to want to avoid. But I appreciate you bringing awareness to this topic that affects more people than we would ever suspect.   So, will you just teach us the various types of abuse?   Stacey Womack: (3:12 - 12:56) Sure. So, I'll try to go through them fairly briefly for you, but most of the time they only give you a few, but we have eight different areas of abuse that we talk about. So, you know, most people get physical abuse.   That's how most people define domestic violence and abuse is physical, which is all the things from hitting, pushing, slapping, grabbing, strangulation, which is something that's very dangerous. And a person's at risk of dying days and weeks after being strangled, even months after being strangled. So, it's a very serious crime.   Most states it's a felony. But every category has those things that aren't as obvious. So, in physical, it would be like posturing where someone stands up or takes a step towards you, it's right in your space.   The most common form of abuse is psychological, though. This is what is often called emotional abuse by most people. So psychological abuse, I kind of divided into three categories.   The largest one is the crazy making the mind games, the mental coercion, the gaslighting, all those things. And that's very, very hard to explain to people. And it doesn't look like abuse.   It looks like non-memorable conflict oftentimes and gets misdiagnosed that way, I guess you could say. And it's the form of abuse that women say is the hardest to heal from because bruises heal. But the emotional ones that psychological abuse causes can take years and years to heal from.   So also, another big category besides the mind games is the isolation. So, keeping them from friends and family could be outright telling them not to spend time with friends and family, or it could be, you know, allowing them to go spend time with friends and family, but then they pay for it later. So, there's some type of punishment for doing that.   Moving her from place to place, or church to church, to keep her from having any kind of support. So that's very common. And then another category in here, and I'm just keeping them very brief, is stalking behaviors, which stalking should be taken very seriously because 75% of those who commit homicides are stalkers.   So, this is everything from following, showing up uninvited, not leaving when asked, to the use of spyware, which is often free or cheap. So, you know, those air pods, they drop them in people's purses or put them in places in their car or whatever, just so they can follow them where they're going, those types of things. And among our younger generation, a common stalking behavior would be multiple calling and multiple texting.   So, the second closest that comes to emotional abuse would be verbal abuse. And most of us get the types of verbal abuse that are obvious, the yelling, the swearing, the name calling, the, you know, put downs. I mean, things that are really obvious.   And this is a huge category and not well understood because we have all used some verbal abuse in our lives. So, everything down to things that are more subtle, like the silent treatment as a way to control the conversation or sarcasm, which is actually means the tearing of flesh. So, it's not a healthy way to communicate.   There's a little bit of truth to it. That's what makes it funny. But it's always at someone's expense.   And we live in a pretty sarcastic world. And I, myself, can be pretty sarcastic at times after really watch that because it's really not a kind way to communicate. So, again, this is a huge category.   So, we have verbal, psychological, physical, financial, lots of financial control and abusive relationships. Most of our men who are abusive use financial control. So, he's making all the financial decisions.   He's controlling the finances, or he allows her to have some access to finances, but not all by  hiding assets and hidden accounts, things like that. Or maybe making her handle all the finances while he goes out and misspends. So, then it's her fault.   And now he has a reason to abuse her. And even once they separate, financial abuse continues by not paying a spousal or child support. So, I tell our women to not depend on that, do what they need to do legally, but not to depend on it because it's very hard to get that money back.   So, we have verbal, psychological, physical, financial, sexual, which people get that one too. Rape, unwanted touch, attacking body parts, making her dress a certain way or not dress a certain way. It could include extreme jealousy, which is, again, goes right back into those stalking behaviors.   So, it's these pornography affairs, sexual name calling or sexual putdowns or sexual jokes. Again, another really big category. So that a lot of times some more subtle things that people don't recognize as being abusive because a lot of people use it, like the sexual name calling or sexual using sexual cuss words.   So, I always have to go through those verbal, psychological, physical, financial, sexual property. We don't always think about property being abusive. But if an abuser can convince his victim that he's dangerous, he never has to be physical.   And so, he might punch the hole right next to your head. I had a woman tell me this. And then he saw the fear in her face, and he said, “What? I didn't even touch you.” But the message was, this is what could happen to you. So, property is not always it can include, but it is not always the breaking of things or throwing things.   It could be slamming doors, slamming hands on the table. But it could also be moving property to make her think she's going crazy. So, she has a place she keeps her keys. He moves them to make her think she's going crazy, that she can't remember where she's putting things anymore.   So, you always have an overlap in an abusive event. It's never just one form of abuse unless it's just psychological and very subtle. But property abuse also includes the use of weapons.   In the groups that we've been doing with men for the more than two decades that we've been working with them, usually they're not using the weapon there. It's the implied threat of use of weapons. So, we had one woman who went to her boyfriend's house, and he came out of his bedroom with a knife and laid it on the table and said, “I just don't know what I'd do if you left me.”   Or we had many guys in the program for tapping knives while they create and continue arguments with their partners. So, it could be any misuse of any property. It could even be gift giving to get her to comply back into the relationship.   So, it's not always what you think of when you think of like guns and knives. It doesn't have to be that way. It can be very subtle.   So then we have spiritual abuse, spiritual abuse. Since we're a faith-based organization, we talk about the misuse of scripture. So, he's using scripture to get her to comply, to get his way.   And God's word is a balance between judgment and love and mercy. And when you remove that love and they're just going with the judgment side of God's word, you are misusing God's word. It's not what God intended for his word.   He did not ever intend for the word to be weaponized against a person, especially in an intimate relationship. So, we talk about the difference between submission and oppression and how they are different from one another in our groups. It's also for our men who attend church regularly.   I always tell pastors, if you've got a man who's coming to you and he's working his way through the church leadership and he's being very humble and he's telling you that he knows he has his issue, but he's concerned for his wife that he's not really being abusive. That she just thinks he's being abusive to her because she's experienced abuse in the past or she has mental health issues or she's cheating on him, which is usually not true. They're doing this to discredit her while they're doing what we call public image management to make themselves look good to the public.   So, they're involved in all kinds of things. It may be on the church council. So, you know, when they tell their church leadership this, it's hard to believe.   It's hard for them to believe when she comes forward and says this is what's actually going on in my relationship because they've not experienced that from him. He's been a great guy around them. So, questioning her theology, her salvation, keeping her from going to church, making her go to church, moving her from church to church, things like that, too.   And then the last one is animal abuse. And of course, we think about harming animals. And of course, when you harm an animal, that is animal abuse.   But in terms of the work we do, it's about using the animal to control the person in some way. And that might include the threat to get rid of it, the threat to harm or the threat to kill or the doing of those things or neglecting, not like not feeding or watering the pet. But it could also be things like getting a pet she's allergic to or afraid of or withholding affection from her while he's being overly affectionate to the pet.   We have lots of women who tell us about that. So, again, it's not about necessarily harming the pet as much as it is about using the pet to gain control. You have to remember that abuse is about power and control and abuse means the misuse of.   So, anything can be misused, not just physical hitting and punching and misuse of our strength, but anything can be misused. And when it's used to gain power and control in an intimate relationship. It's a pattern; that's when you're looking at someone who has an abusive personality.   Laura Dugger: (12:57 - 13:27) Wow. Thank you for laying that foundation and expanding our definition. It sounds like so many sins, domestic violence can be insidious, and it can usually begin with a very charming spouse who eventually becomes more and more abusive.   So, have you found that people more easily recognize when they're in an abusive relationship or is it surprising and confusing to them?   Stacey Womack: (13:28 - 16:58) It's mostly confusing and surprising, maybe in that order. You know, since I work with these men, too, there are really great things about them. There's really good qualities I see in them.   And that's what these women fall in love with, these really great qualities. And these men can be extremely charming. And even if you haven't been raised in abuse and you find yourself in an abusive relationship, sometimes it's because you were in a really vulnerable place when you got involved.   And it just felt really good to have somebody come in and be so big and strong and great in your life. Or there's other times guys are just so good at this that they're just believe completely. There's no reason not to believe, right?   I mean, you trust somebody because you expect them to be telling you the truth. So, it usually starts off very subtle and it gradually increases. So, he might start questioning.   So, is that what you're going to wear? Or, you know, well, that's a lot of makeup. Or maybe, you know, telling her that he doesn't agree with something that she agrees with and that maybe her friends and family aren't good for her and maybe she needs to distance herself from them.   We've had women tell us that that happens to them. So, we have a checklist on our website under am I in an abusive relationship, basically. And underneath that, there's actually a PDF that they can print out and check off.   And it usually starts off with things like, are you surprised by his anger? Does his anger scare you? You know, and then we work down to more obvious forms of abuse.   But when a woman goes through that list and it's actually degenerate. So, a male or a female could go through the list. And they could go through it and they could determine, am I experiencing a pattern of these behaviors in my life?   Marriage should be the safest place for you. And when it's not, there's something wrong there. And we do work with women who are abusive.   So, I do want to acknowledge that there are male victims out there. And when they call us, since we don't have a group for them, because perpetrators believe they are the victims. So, if I opened a men's victim group, I would get a room full of perpetrators.   Male victims tend to say very similar things to our female victims and behave in very similar ways that our women behave as well. And so, we refer them out to counselors that we trust. And, you know, and women can be what we call primary aggressors in the relationship.   And they act and talk and say the same kinds of things as our male primary aggressors. And most primary aggressors are male because it just works better for them. They're bigger, they're stronger, they're given privilege that women are not given.   So, it just works better for them. But there are women out there who do that. And then there's those relationships where both parties are using abused.   But one is a primary and one is a secondary. It doesn't make the abuse okay. It doesn't even make it okay when you or I say something or act in a way that disregards or disrespects another person.   That's sin. So, I think that we need to be really honest with the fact that this is a human issue. And that it's okay to come out and say, you know what, I have a problem with this.   And I need help. And that's what we're trying to offer for both the men and the women that we serve.   Laura Dugger: (16:59 - 17:21) And I'm just simplifying it. But in my mind, when you talk about primary and secondary, it makes me think for that secondary person, just simply hurt people, hurt people. So, is that what you're talking about?   Where they are not the initiators of the abusive behavior, but when they are abused over time, they respond with abusive patterns as well?   Stacey Womack: (17:21 - 19:17) Yeah, abuse is a learned behavior. So, if they grew up in a home where abuse was present, you know, as much as you don't like some of those negative things that we all get from growing up, we get good things and bad things. We often end up repeating them until we learn something different. And so, some of our women in our secondary aggressors program, you know, have had to fight their entire life to survive.   And sometimes it's just safer to be the aggressor than it is to be the victim. And so, a lot of times when women are using abusive behaviors, it's more about trying to be heard or it's payback. So, they don't really gain power and control from their abuse, not really.   It's usually when they're abusive, the women are just getting payback for what their abuser did. So, one woman, her and her husband had an argument and he's this big guy. And so, to get back at him, we would call this properly anal and psychological.   She took the pillow and rubbed it all over the cat because he's allergic to cats and put the pillow back on the bed so he'd wake up with puffy eyes. It's a very passive form of abuse, but it is a way to get back at him. And then we have those women who just fight back verbally and they can.   I had this little gal, not probably hardly even 100 pounds. She could bring a 200 pound, six foot tall husband to his knees with just her words. And this is a woman who had to fight her entire life.   So, you know, you can see there's times where relationships where there's more. I don't really like the word mutual, but there's they're both using abusive behaviors, but it's the only way they know how to live life. And so, the women come out of this program saying, now I understand that his abuse to me does not excuse my abuse to him.   And I have power to make choices that will bring change to my life. And that's a powerful place to be much more powerful than being a victim.   Laura Dugger: (19:18 - 19:45) Absolutely. And I think the hope that I'm hearing is when you say abuse is a learned behavior. Does that mean we can learn our way out of it as well?   So, anyone who is in an abusive relationship or is finding if they're listening to this, maybe they find out that they are the abuser, you can learn your way out of it then?   Stacey Womack: (19:45 - 21:27) You can. It takes a tremendous amount of work. But both the victim and the perpetrator or the survivor, they have to learn new tools, both of them, because we have women who get out of abusive relationships who find themselves right back into another abusive relationship.   The tools that women use in abusive relationships are amazing. The ways that they do things to survive the abuse is absolutely amazing. But those same tools do not serve them well once they're out of abuse.   Some of them get into healthy relationships, but they're still using those old tools that they picked up during the abusive relationship. And so, they come to group a recovery group so that they can heal from that and learn a new way and let go of that pain and hurt and learn behavior so that they can also be healthy in that relationship with that new partner. So, and he also and for the abuser, someone who's like this is they've been the primary aggressor in the relationship and they have a lifetime of picking up belief systems that have given them permission to behave that way.   And that doesn't change in 12 weeks. Programs for those guys and those gals should be long; thirty-six weeks the absolute minimum. I think a year or even two years is better because you need practice to sustain change. We have lots of guys who change, but getting that sustained change takes lots of accountability and lots of hard work.   And it's difficult to do. But we have those stories of couples that make it. There's a lot more that don't make it.   All the men make some changes, but often not enough to save the relationship. So, it varies.   Laura Dugger: (21:27 - 23:38) And now a brief message from our sponsor, Grace Catering Company in North Peoria offers a rotating menu of scrumptious meals for you to take home and pop in your own oven with family friendly options like lasagna, bacon wrapped meatloaves, chicken Alfredo pasta, breakfast burritos and creamy garlic chicken breasts. Your homemade dinner will be on the table in no time. They also offer healthier and lighter options as well as some gluten-free and keto-friendly choices.   The meals are packaged in a variety of sizes, which makes it perfect for individuals or couples, or they have portions large enough to feed the entire family. Their menu is on a six-week rotation. You can stop by for a grab and go lunch with their signature sandwiches, salads, soups or quinoa bowls depending on the season.   I also recommend you top off your meal with one of their sweet treats, such as their popular scotcheroos, iced sugar or chocolate chip cookies, or their cookie of the month. The founder and owner Renee Endres has also created my all-time favorite cookbook. My grandparents actually gave this to me as a gift when I was a newlywed and it has been put to great use for the past decade and a half.   The recipes are easy and approachable and the feedback from our family and from guests we've hosted in our home has always been positive when the meal came from Renee. When I've gifted this cookbook to friends, they will commonly remark how these are also the most delicious desserts they've ever tasted. Our extended family also loves to use the take and bake options on Sunday afternoons, which allows us to enjoy a delectable meal while still getting to enjoy a true Sabbath.   Grace Catering Company is located just off Alta Lane in North Florida. Check them out today at gracecateringcompany.com.    Well, and with your programs, what are some of the things that you do offer for someone who finds themselves in an abusive relationship?   Stacey Womack: (23:40 - 28:08) Yeah, so our largest program is called Her Journey and it's a victim survivor recovery program. So, it doesn't matter what form of abuse you experienced or are experiencing. It could be years ago even.   And we have this, it's a 15 week program, but we lead it year-round so you can just start immediately. It's one of the things that we found out as we've been doing this national campaign is that we're the only ones that we've found that are free. It's a free program.   We have Zoom. So, we have every day of the week covered. If we don't have something right in your own state, in your county.   But we're in-person groups in 21 states right now and looking to lead more or teach more leaders how to lead the program in their community, or in their centers, or in their missions. They're often held in churches. It's all confidential.   The women just call in. They don't have to give us their real name. They don't have to give us any information.   They don't want to. We just ask whatever name they use. They keep using the same name so we don't care if they say their name is Minnie Mouse.   That's fine with us. Just so that we can keep track of it for grant purposes. But in that group, it's not a process group.   It's really about hearing God's heart around this issue. And they do get training around domestic violence. But we also go through other topics like dealing with anger, depression and loneliness and just all the different things that happen throughout this process.   Learning how to appropriately boundary set and what to do and what's going to work with an abuser. What's not going to work with an abuser. Those types of things. And so, we found that we just keep it open so the women can join immediately. Because if we don't help them right when they're asking for the help, we'll lose them because the abuser will very quickly work to move them back into the relationship, which is part of the cycle of abuse. And because we want the relationship to work and we want to believe him, we do.   And so, women, you know, leave on average seven times before they leave for good because we don't get into a relationship to see it in. And so, when I talk and train pastors and I had a pastor say, “Well, she's just looking for a way out.” I'm like, “No, that's not true.”   These women do everything, including couples counseling, which is something that does not work when abuse is the issue and power control is the issue. And most pastors that I haven't heard of any seminary that actually does a whole course on domestic violence, they get a little bit of couples counseling and that's it. And even counselors don't get trained in domestic violence.   So, this is only a very small portion of counselors. So, I would tell these women, if you're listening to this now, that they shouldn't do couples counseling, but they should look for a counselor who has 40 hours of victim advocacy training from an advocacy agency and that he needs to go work on his own issues with an agency that deals with domestic abuse intervention. And a lot of times the things that she thinks, or they both think, they need couples counseling for go completely away once he does the work he needs to do.   So, the communication problems, the anger issues, all those things that they think are the cause are no longer an issue. Most of our couples don't even need couples counseling after this because he has learned to love like Jesus loves. That's what we teach is like, what does that mean to be Christlike?   What does that mean to lay your life down? So, but during our time that we work with women or men, secondary or primary aggressors, female or male, we in our groups talk about focusing on that themselves and their relationship with God and not focusing outward because God will take care of that. Sure, pray about it, but release it.   That's God's responsibility. You only have control of this relationship is between yourself and God. And that's where you're going to seek Him about what He's calling you to do in this situation.   And every person's a little bit different. It's not my place to tell someone whether to leave or stay. And we're not here to promote divorce.   And we know the women want their relationships to work. We know they want men to make it to the other side. We do, too, but we cannot make that happen.   So, all we can do is present the information and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work. And the person has to be willing to receive the help.   Laura Dugger: (28:09 - 28:35) Absolutely. Well, and I even think about how this conversation came about. We had multiple women of different ages, all of them believers, who were reaching out and sharing a little bit of their experience in marriage and sharing some potential abuse.   And I actually reached out to some publicists that I work with and said, “Who would be able to speak to this?” And so that's how we got connected.   Stacey Womack: (28:36 - 28:36) Yeah.   Laura Dugger: (28:36 - 28:54) Very much appreciated your book. And as I was reading it, there was one story that was particularly haunting. And it was about a pastor who ended up begging you for training.   So, can you recall what happened?   Stacey Womack: (28:54 - 34:09) Yeah. You know, a lot of pastors just it's not that they don't care. It's just that they're very uneducated around this.   So even myself, when I first started, I would give people really unhelpful advice before I even began this work because I didn't understand it well. And so, he had encouraged this woman to forgive and go back, which is a typical response. You know, submit more, pray harder.   Those are the kinds of things that a lot of women get from churches. And so, she did. She went home and then he murdered her that night.   And so, this pastor was absolutely heartbroken, as you can imagine, and was calling in and asking, please, please, please train us because we don't want this to ever happen again. You know, and honestly, there are some pastors out there that believe that women should stay in the relationship, even if they are being abused and that God will bless them through their suffering, even if it means death. I don't agree with that.   See, I think that God would never sacrifice a person for the sake of the relationship. But we do as the church sometimes because we're so concerned about the relationship. The relationship is important and God has got a reconciliation and we want reconciliation, too.   But God also tells us the prudent man or woman hides from danger and he cares about us as individuals. And He has called us to live life abundantly, not to just bear it, you know. And so, I think that we need to really look at that.   And being raised as a pastor's daughter that, you know, I was taught that way. So, it was a really it's been really hard, you know, working in the faith communities really struggles with this. And, you know, this idea that, well, a separation might lead to divorce.   But separation is really functional in these relationships because she needs safety so that she can talk, speak the truth from this other person. And she needs time to see whether or not he's willing to actually get the help that he's been promising he'll get. And they need time to see if he can actually work through that.   Or is he just using a program as another controlling behavior to get her to come back into a relationship? If she waits long enough and we usually say six months and he's mad that she's not letting him back home. He goes right back to all the bad behaviors he was doing before.   And he pulls all the money out of the bank and does all these crazy things. And she has her answer, which is heartbreaking. The women are heartbroken over this because they want their relationships to work.   We cannot emphasize that enough to the faith community. These women want their relationships to work and that they did not sign up for this. They did not sign up for these.   They did not say, “Oh, yes, I am agreeing to get married and be abused.” That's how they agreed to. And he made a promise to love and cherish.   And the Bible commands men to love their wives like Christ loves the church and to lay his life down. That means he gives up his way to bless her, that Jesus came to serve, not to be served. So, his role is one of being the lead servant in the relationship.   He should be the first to be serving her. And how do we respond as women? We feel loved and cherished and cared for when that happens.   My husband's so good at this. I have to be careful if I say I'm thirsty, he's up getting me a glass of water. He's so quick to serve.   But this is the kind of behavior that blesses us. And men are surprised that the very thing they want, the respect, honor, all those kinds of things. They get it by doing the very opposite of what they're doing, by giving up their way, by embracing humility.   And humility is hard because it means it's not about being 50-50 or being fair. It's about going 100 percent or more. So, my husband would share because he leads manuscripts with me.   And he says, you know, guys, you know, if Stacy's at 20 percent, then I need to go 180. I need to go in and fill in that gap for her. And there's times I do that for him, too, because unhealthy relationships like that's what we do for women.   But an abusive relationship, that's never what happens. And an abuser has and this is very popular, a narcissistic view of his world. He may not realize that it doesn't mean he has narcissistic personality disorder.   Those guys are very different and they stick out sore thumbs, but they all behave narcissistic, narcissistically, meaning their world revolves around them. So, they want you to manage their emotions. They blame you for when they're unhappy.   And even if you weren't even present, when whatever happened, that he's unhappy that he still blames you for it, which doesn't make sense. It's that crazy making. It's like, “Wow, how am I the cause of this when this happened at work? I don't understand.” You know, so there's all that craziness that goes on.   But, you know, I'm so honored to get to walk alongside men and women in their process of change and their aha moments and their realization that God loves them and that God values them and that they're important and they're regarded. And that because of that, abuse is never OK. It's never OK.   Laura Dugger: (34:10 - 35:21) The few follow ups with that, then to go back to an earlier point, you're making a connection for me where I'm thinking back to a few episodes. It was one was with Leslie Vernick and one was with Dr. Diane Langberg. So, I can't remember who said this.   I can link to both in the show notes, but it's what you're speaking to that as we study the scriptures and we see Christ likeness and how to become more Christ like and what God really says about these topics. They were pointing out he cares about the individual more than the institution. Yeah.   And so, I think there's a lot of re-education for us in the faith community, unfortunately. But then also two follow up questions. One, as you're talking about narcissism or a narcissistic outlook, is there ever from your experience?   I'm familiar with some of my friends who are in relationships like that or acquaintances that I know. Is there ever hope for the husband who has narcissistic tendencies or personality disorder to repent? Have you ever seen that?   Stacey Womack: (35:21 - 37:16) Absolutely. We have men who've done a really great job of working away from being self-focused and selfish. That's really what it is.   They read these journals and we make comments on them and they have to come up with the beliefs that gave them permission to behave this way. So, we had one guy and you could just see a selfishness that I always wrote. The belief is I'm most important.   I've read it every on every single journal. And he finally came to group after a few months because I really realize I'm really selfish. And so, as we help them to see this, it begins to change things and they begin to make different choices and try new things.   As someone who has a narcissistic personality disorder, like any personality disorder, those are not medicated. They can't be medicated and it takes a longer time. So, I've had some training on narcissistic personality disorder and I recognize those guys.   Any of those guys generally with personality disorders because they don't see themselves. So, the group laughs at things I say, but they don't understand why they're laughing. And those guys need like seven years of counseling with someone who specializes in narcissistic personality disorder.   If they're willing to do the work that that they can actually make changes. And there's a gentleman who who's travels the country speaking on this. He says that's his favorite group of population he works with.   I can't say the word narcissistic personality disorder men. And he says, you would like this man today. But he had like multiple failed businesses.   He'd been very successful, but they're failing businesses, failing marriage. And he worked with them and you don't work with them the same as just typical counseling. It's not the same because they don't see themselves.   So, we need more people who specialize in that.   Laura Dugger: (37:16 - 38:12) I agree with you there. And it's just helpful to have that reminder of hope. Even this morning in my quiet time, I was reading in the Gospels and it was Jesus saying and everything he says is true.   That with man, it seems impossible, or it is impossible. But with God, we know that all things are possible. So, appreciate the way you answered that.   And then also a follow up would be we heard that awful story of what happened with the physical safety when you're looking at physical abuse. But then, Stacey, would you recommend wives have the same boundaries? Are they taking time away to physically protect themselves if there's any type of abuse?   If there is financial abuse, let's say, are they given the same recommendations as somebody who is in an emotionally abusive relationship?   Stacey Womack: (38:13 - 40:49) Well, the emotional abuse is always there. You don't have any other forms of abuse without emotional abuse. So, our women, we talk about boundary setting and different boundaries they can begin trying.   But oftentimes the only boundary that actually works to be able to say for us to be able to make it, you need to go get help. And while you're getting help, we need to be separated so they're not focusing on one another. So not all of our women separate.   Some of the women try to work through it while he's still in the home. My experience is that it slows the process down, extremely slows the process down because they're still focusing on one another. And he's coming home and he's sharing with us how great the program is.   But then he's going home and he's angry and he's taking it out on her. So, it creates some unsafety for her. And I just want to say this because I think a lot of people don't understand that there's physical safety and then there's emotional safety.   And we downplay the emotional safety. But emotional safety is as important as physical safety. So, I have some pastors who think that if we share things like this, that we're going to be making victims.   That's not true. I don't relate to the books that are out there. You know, oh, yeah, I've experienced that.   It's not going to make victims. You either relate to it or you don't. But this emotional safety might mean needing to separate from that person.   Not because you fear their physical abuse when you haven't been physical. But a lot of our women say he's never been physical, but I'm fearful of him. And so in order for her to get some healing and some help while she waits to see whether or not he gets help and she's really hoping he will.   She needs that space. And so, yes, I think that in a lot of scenarios, separation is a key. And then we have some couples where the where the husband does is not willing to do the work he needs to do, but he's not controlling the finances.   So, they remain married but separated for the rest of their lives. Not very many couples can do that because most abusers are going to control finances. So, but that's why I was saying it's not our place to tell a woman to leave or to stay.   That's not our job. It's our job to walk alongside them when they seek God for what they should be doing and what boundaries they should be setting. And they can try a lot of different things before it gets to that point.   And it just there's no easy answer for this.   Laura Dugger: (40:50 - 41:05) It's very complex. Yes, it's very complex. But even when you say there's a lot of things they could try.   Could you give a few examples or is there a place on your website where they can go to get some ideas and some help for those earlier stages?   Stacey Womack: (41:06 - 43:43) Well, we talk about this in our journey class again, which is free. You can join at any time in our class on boundaries. And so, it depends on the severity of abuse that's going on.   But most women, when there has been physical abuse, will start off with things like and we talk about a boundary has to have a consequence. Otherwise, it's not really you can't. It doesn't work.   But these men are boundary breakers. So, a boundary would be like saying, if you continue to yell at me and call me names, I'm going to leave and go to my friend's house. So, there's the boundary and there's a consequence for breaking.   But then we also realize when we're talking to them that he may decide at some point he's not going to let you leave. So now he's blocking the door. So, then it might be, you know, if you're going to treat me this way, I'm no longer going to cook meals or do your wash.   And it usually works its way down to I'm no longer going to have sex with you. I'm not going to sleep in the same room with you. And once you get to that point, the only other thing you can do is do a physical separation with the heart to actually reunite.   That's what these women want. And some of our couples have been separated for three years. But the husband is like, let her head home.   And he's doing his work and they're interacting again. But he doesn't move back home for three years because he's committed to giving her whatever space and time she needs to heal. Because he recognizes that he's the one that's caused unsafety.   And so, what is three years if you can have a healthy relationship for the rest of your life? And so that's what we were looking for our men to do. It's like even if you're disappointed, if she's saying, I'm not ready for you to move back.   And you can say, I feel disappointed, but you know what? I get it. And whatever you need, I'm willing to do that.   That's accountability. That's humility. And really, they need to have other men who are mentoring them to hold them accountable.   And again, not a lot of people are taught this. And so having the right mentor even for this is really important. Even a right counselor for them to work with their childhood issues.   But those are some ideas for some boundaries. Boundaries always have to have consequences. But even if a woman gets a protection order or restraining order, most of those are violated.   So, we tell the women be prepared to call the police when he violates it by texting you or by sending you a card with money in it or putting flowers on your car. Or coming to the church service that you put in the restraining order that he wasn't supposed to come to. So, you need to be ready to hold him accountable because the abuser doesn't believe you're going to actually follow through.   Laura Dugger: (43:43 - 44:32) Do you love The Savvy Sauce? Do you gain anything when you listen? Did you know that the two ways we earn money to keep this podcast live is through generous contributions from listeners and from our paying sponsors?   That means we can promote your business and you're still supporting The Savvy Sauce. It's a win-win. Please email us today at info@thesavvysauce.com to inquire about pricing for sponsoring each episode. Thank you for your consideration.    Well, and what if somebody is listening right now and they're automatically assuming, well, this isn't happening to anyone I know and it's certainly not happening in our church. What would you like to directly say to them?   Stacey Womack: (44:33 - 45:40) I'd like to let them know that statistically one in three women experience domestic violence, stalking, or rape by an intimate partner. And the statistics in the church are no less than they are outside of the church. So, every church has families in their church who look like the perfect couple.   When I started leading a group in my own church, I was so shocked. I kept telling myself, stop being shocked when I have another woman privately come up to me and tell me that they were in an abusive relationship because they just, they were involved, and they were just leading Sunday school. And they were, just look like this beautiful family and you would never have known.   There was no way to know that this was actually going on. So, you know, the reality is that it's happening. We're just not aware of it.   It wasn't on my radar before God called me into this work. I didn't think it was affecting my life. I didn't think of much thought.   But the reality is I feel like it's worse now than ever and not necessarily more physical abuse, but just abuse in general, the misuse of things to gain control.   Laura Dugger: (45:42 - 46:18) Well, and I appreciate the way you helped give a paradigm shift. You offered this on page 36 in your book and you quote saying, “At ARMS, we do not believe God considers domestic violence and abuse an adult issue. Instead, we believe he sees it as child abuse. We are his children.”   So, Stacey, with that in mind, how does this clarify how we can respond appropriately, and in a Christlike manner, when someone does report abuse?   Stacey Womack: (46:20 - 47:51) Well, I think a lot of times when women actually have the courage to tell you what's going on, it's a very courageous thing to do. She's risking a lot by telling you.   So, we really need to listen carefully and believe her. And I'm thinking about how, you know, that I'm trying to think now. How did you word your question so I can answer it correctly?   If you think about that example you gave, if your child was being beaten, harassed and abused in school and came home crying, you wouldn't just sit in your chair and say, go back and pray harder and win them over by your quiet and gentle spirit. We would go down and we would ask the school, what are you doing about this? Who's doing this and what are you doing about it?   And if they didn't do anything, we wouldn't think twice to remove our child from that environment. But in these situations where you're working with two adults, she may not be ready to leave. She's just sharing with you that this is going on.   She actually is hoping you'll go talk to him so that you'll fix him. But that is not a safe thing for you to do. And she may not realize that.   I tell pastors that all the time. You don't, but you're not going to go to him to check out her story or go talk to him like she's asked you to. Instead, you're going to go, what can we do for you right now?   Let's get you some help. And there'll be a time where we can address things with him. But right now is not that safe time.   So, let's get you connected with an organization that can help you give you the resources that you need to begin your journey of healing and discovering what God wants you to do.   Laura Dugger: (47:52 - 48:07) That's good. And also, this is a tricky question, but what are your views for having biblical reasons for divorce, specifically as it relates to those types of abuse that you shared with us?   Stacey Womack: (48:08 - 50:27) Sure. You know, I think God understood that divorce would happen. That's why it got written into the law.   And it says, “Because it was the hardness of hearts.” So, it wasn't God's design. It wasn't the way God wanted it to be, but that there was made allowances for this.   And when people and women are often quoted, God hates divorce. They're not really giving the whole scripture and Malachi in the amplified version. It says, “God hates divorce and marital separation and him who covers his wife, his garment with violence. Therefore, keep a watch on your spirit, that it may be controlled by my spirit, that you deal not treacherously and faithfully with your marriage mate.”   So, we actually got some really good articles that go in depth on the original Hebrew, that Malachi verse was written in there. But, you know, I do believe that someone is breaking the marriage covenant to love, cherish, lay his life down for when they bring abuse to the relationship.   Again, God would wish and hope that we would humble our hearts, not be stiff necked and submit to Him and what he's trying to teach us and grow us in. But He does not force us. And so that leaves women in these situations very little choices if their husband is unwilling to get the help that he needs.   So, I am all for divorce. And I know that that marriage is hard. And my husband and I have been married for 44 years and we've gone through our struggles.   And there are times that I thought this isn't going to work. But you know what? We hung in there because we knew that for us, because it wasn't an abusive situation, that we need to stay in there and work on it.   And we did. And we're so glad we did. So, believe me, I'm not promoting divorce.   I just know that there has to be a place and known for it because of sin in the world. And again, it's heartbreaking and it destroys not just individuals, families, but our society is being destroyed by the breakdown of the family. And abuse is one of the most insidious things.   It starts in the home and it's cyclical. So, it's passed on from one generation to the next.   Laura Dugger: (50:29 - 50:38) Well, so, Stacey, how can we become more aware of abuse that is happening all around us? And what can we do that's genuinely helpful?   Stacey Womack: (50:40 - 52:13) Well, I think getting the education, you know, in my book that on the front lines of abuse strategies for the faith community, just a little book. But has a ton of information in it is a good place to start. And I have some do's and don'ts in there.   But, you know, I think that when you might recognize someone's being in an abusive relationship by the way her husband or whatever is speaking to her. But she doesn't see it because most victims would never call themselves a victim of abuse because they don't relate to that at all. That's not how they would define it.   So, I think sometimes just privately sharing with them. No, that behavior was really abusive. And she may not like that.   She might even get upset. But I think just being honest with the fact that this is going on. And I encourage pastors to preach about abuse and really abuse oppression.   And the Bible has a whole lot to say about oppression. There's already sermons out there that they can pull from. I suggest pastors preach on it twice a year.   So, October's domestic violence awareness month. And then maybe run Mother's Day again, not on Mother's Day, but around Mother's Day. Talk about it again, not as a caveat to relationships where it's just mentioned in a sermon, but an actual entire sermon on this issue.   And I can promise you that the church gets the education they need. They don't have to be experts, but they need to know what resources are out there for them and they make it safe. Both men and women will come forward and ask for help.   So, we need just to be a listening ear and care and ask how we can help.   Laura Dugger: (52:14 - 52:29) I think that's a good practical encouragement that you've shared. And I want to add all of these links in our show notes. So, is there anywhere else that we can go to after this conversation to continue learning from you?   Sure.   Stacey Womack: (52:30 - 53:32) We have our website that has a ton of information on it, abuserecovery.org. So, there's just so much on there. We have blogs and we have all kinds of information that the faith community can download for free.   Whether you're just in the community or you're a church leader, there's all kinds of things you can download. We have a pastor's packet. There's just we'll give you other books to read that you can do more education around this again.   I know as my father being a pastor, that pastors are busy enough. We're not asking pastors to do more than what they're doing. We're just asking them to be educated and know where they can send their people that's safe, where they're going to get sound and supportive help.   And to just be open to looking at things from a little bit different perspective. But our website just has so much on it that they can get for free. And again, our women's intervention groups, our recovery groups are free.   Laura Dugger: (53:33 - 53:49) Thank you for sharing that. And you may already be familiar that we're called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge or insight. And so, Stacey is my final question for you today.   What is your savvy sauce?   Stacey Womack: (53:50 - 54:39) What is my savvy sauce? You know, when I think about how God called me into this ministry in the end, no matter what we do, I think it's about obedience to God. And so, this was not on my radar.   I would never have chosen it. And so, for me, it's about being obedient to what God has called me to do, even when it's hard and even when it's unpopular. And walking in that so that when I stand before God, I can say I did what you asked me to, to the best of my ability, even with all my flaws.   So that's really, I think, my heart is to be that way. Be a leader like Moses, who God says he was the most humble man who ever lived. I'd love to be like that with the heart of David and the boldness of Paul and on and on and on.   Laura Dugger: (54:39 - 59:13) So, yeah, I love that. Well, I told you before we pressed record that I have experienced so much fruit of the spirit from you already with your gentleness. And this is not the first time we tried recording.   We prayed together that God would do immeasurably more than all we could ever ask or imagine through this conversation, because we had so many technical difficulties and even had to reschedule the date for this. But Stacey, I'm so grateful you persevered because you are well-spoken and you tackle this extremely difficult topic with wisdom and grace. And so, I'm very grateful I got to learn from you today.   And I believe God's going to continue working through you, even for the saving of many lives. So, thank you for your work and thank you for being my guest. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.    One more thing before you go. Have you heard the term gospel before?   It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you. But it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there is absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior. But God loved us so much, he made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life we could never live and died in our place for our sin. This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus.   We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished if we choose to receive what He has done for us. Romans 10:9 says, “That if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” So, would you pray with me now?   Heavenly Father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you. Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life?   We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.   If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me, so me for him. You get the opportunity to live your life for him. And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason.   We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you ready to get started? First, tell someone.   Say it out loud. Get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes & Noble and let me choose my own Bible.   I selected the Quest NIV Bible, and I love it. You can start by reading the book of John. Also, get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ.   I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps, such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you. We want to celebrate with you too, so feel free to leave a comment for us here if you did make a decision to follow Christ. We also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “In the same way I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

In this special episode, LeAnne Parsons (PCC, TBRI Practitioner, and coach on Leslie Vernick's team) shares an exciting update. With Leslie's full blessing and invitation, the coaching team is stepping in to bring a new Coaches Takeover Series to the podcast! You'll hear encouragement, real transformation stories, and coaching insights that align perfectly with the biblical foundation and trauma-informed care this podcast is known for. Expect practical tools, Christ-centered truth, and deep reminders that your healing matters and your voice is not too much. Highlights: Why Leslie invited her coaching team to take the mic What's ahead in the new Coaches Takeover Series Why this message of healing, boundaries, and truth matters more than ever A personal encouragement from LeAnne Galatians 1:10 (NLT) Learn more: www.leslievernick.com/coaching Don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!

Addiction is a heartbreaking reality that weighs heavy on loved ones who are affected. But when you're navigating something this complex, how can you know the best way forward?In this episode, you will learn:What is considered an addiction and what the Bible says about the root of addiction.How to respond to the longings and desires you have without turning to substances.The complicated dynamics addiction creates within relationships.The hope and healing God has for you and how to allow Him to work in and through you.Helpful LinksHave a question for Lysa, Jim, or Joel? Leave us a message, and it could be answered on one of our future podcast episodes! Start here.Download “Trust Is a Track Record: 5 Scriptural Truths To Remember God's Faithfulness" by Lysa TerKeurst here.Purchase "The Trust Journey Bundle" that includes I Want to Trust You, but I Don't by Lysa TerKeurst as well as The Trust Journey (a guided journal to use alongside I Want to Trust You, but I Don't) here.We'd like to extend a special thank-you to our sponsor for this season, Compassion International. When you sponsor a child, you'll receive the “Proverbs: The Beginning of All Wisdom” study guide as our gift to you! Go to compassion.com/proverbs31 to get started!Click here to download a transcript of this episode.Want More on This Topic?Listen to "Is This Relationship Toxic?"Listen to "Difficult vs. Destructive Relationships with Leslie Vernick."Watch "When You Discover Someone Has Broken Your Trust."

When the Church Harms Instead of Heals: A Conversation with Dr. Diane Langberg Does the church always protect the vulnerable? Unfortunately, the answer is no. Too often, church leaders and institutions protect their own reputation, power, and influence instead of the wounded and abused. This episode is a crucial conversation with world-renowned trauma expert Dr. Diane Langberg, who has spent over five decades counseling survivors of abuse and working to bring truth and light into the darkest places within the church. In this episode, Leslie Vernick and Dr. Langberg discuss how churches can—and must—do better. They expose the dangerous ways churches enable abuse, misuse power, and silence victims in the name of God. If you've ever felt unheard, dismissed, or spiritually manipulated by those in leadership, this conversation will offer both validation and hope. Key Takeaways: 1. Why Churches Struggle to See and Address Abuse The church has been slow to acknowledge abuse within its walls. Too often, the institution is prioritized over the people. Jesus called leaders to "feed my sheep," yet many churches protect the system instead. Abuse survivors need churches that reflect Christ's heart, not just uphold doctrine. 2. The Harmful Messages Women Hear About Abuse and Marriage Many women are told that preserving marriage at all costs is God's will, even at the expense of their physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being. But God hates sin more than divorce. Jesus himself walked away from people who refused truth, and women are not called to stay in destructive relationships to honor God. 3. The Self-Deception of Abusive Church Leaders Abusive pastors and leaders often twist Scripture to justify their actions. They protect their reputations and minimize their sins, deceiving not only others but themselves. True repentance requires exposure and accountability, not secrecy and cover-ups. 4. How to Create Safer Churches for Abuse Survivors Churches must shift their focus from building large institutions to becoming places that reflect Christ's love and justice. This means listening to survivors, seeking expert training, and prioritizing character over charisma in leadership. 5. God's Heart for the Wounded For those who have been harmed by their church, Dr. Langberg offers a powerful reminder: God sees, weeps, and hates the evil done in His name. He does not ask you to stay in an abusive situation. He is for you, not against you. Resources and Next Steps: Dr. Diane Langberg's book: When the Church Harms God's People Dr. Diane Langberg's website: www.dianelangberg.com Leslie Vernick's resources for abuse survivors: www.leslievernick.com Need support? Join our private community for women seeking healing and guidance.  Final Encouragement If you've been hurt by the church, know this: God is not like the leaders who failed you. He sees you, loves you, and wants you to walk in freedom. Your voice matters, and healing is possible. Thank you for listening to Relationship Truth Unfiltered. Be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. 

Have you ever found yourself stuck in a cycle of hoping things will change, only to be disappointed over and over again? Maybe you're in a destructive marriage, and deep down, you know the truth... but accepting it feels impossible. In this episode, Leslie Vernick and Julie Sedenko dive into what true acceptance looks like, especially for women in difficult relationships. But here's the key: Acceptance doesn't mean giving up. It doesn't mean resigning yourself to misery. Instead, it's about facing the truth so that you can take back your power and choose your next steps wisely. If you're exhausted from trying to change someone who refuses to change, this episode will help you shift your mindset and start taking care of yourself because you are worth it. Key Takeaways: 1. Healthy People Live in the Truth Denying reality doesn't change it, it only keeps you stuck. Accepting a hard truth doesn't mean you have to like it, but it does mean you can begin to move forward. Resisting reality drains your energy. Facing it, even when it hurts, is the first step to healing and change. 2. Acceptance is Empowering, Not Defeating Accepting the truth about your marriage doesn't mean it will never change, but it does mean you stop relying on "hopium", the false hope that if you just try harder, he'll be different. When you accept reality, you regain your power by asking: “What are my choices now?” Acceptance leads to action. You can start making plans for your well-being, rather than waiting for someone else to change. 3. You Have Choices, Even When It Feels Like You Don't If your husband refuses to change, you can choose how you will respond. Your choices might include setting firmer boundaries, building financial independence, finding emotional support, or even considering separation. Instead of waiting for someone else to rescue you, step into the role God has given you as the steward of your own life. 4. Stop Living Like a Doormat—Set Healthy Boundaries Feeling like a doormat? That's a sign you need better boundaries. Being kind does not mean letting people take advantage of you. When you start saying “no,” pay attention to how people respond. Do they respect your boundaries, or do they punish you for them? That tells you a lot about the relationship. 5. Taking Responsibility for Your Own Well-Being If your needs aren't being met in your marriage, you don't have to stay stuck in resentment. Instead, you can take steps to meet them in other ways. Stop waiting for your husband to make you feel valued, loved, or celebrated. Celebrate yourself. God calls us to steward our lives wisely. Taking care of yourself is not selfish, it's responsible. A Personal Invitation: Are you struggling to accept a painful truth in your marriage? You don't have to go through this alone. Ready to take action and grow stronger? Walking in CORE Strength is a coaching program designed to help you build confidence, set boundaries, and reclaim your life. Learn more and join us here. Final Encouragement: Acceptance is hard, but it's also the doorway to freedom. When you stop fighting the truth, you can start making choices that bring peace, strength, and healing into your life. You are not alone, and God will give you the courage to take the next step.

Episode Title: The Courage to Walk Away: Leah's Story of Love, Loss, and Finding Strength Introduction Have you ever found yourself questioning everything you thought you knew about love, trust, and commitment? What if the dream you've been waiting for suddenly didn't feel right? In today's episode, Julie Sedenko sits down with Leah, a woman who was weeks away from getting married when she made the gut-wrenching decision to call off her wedding. Leah's story is different from our usual guests—she's never been married—but her journey of faith, resilience, and self-discovery will challenge the way you think about relationships, red flags, and the courage to choose what's right over what's expected. If you've ever felt the pressure of time, culture, or expectations pushing you toward a decision that doesn't sit well in your spirit, this episode is for you. Leah shares how she navigated an unexpected betrayal, deep grief, and the healing she found through Leslie Vernick's coaching programs. You won't want to miss the wisdom and strength that radiates from her testimony. Key Takeaways: 1. When Love Doesn't Feel Safe Leah shares how she initially felt deeply connected to her fiancé—he was kind, communicative, and a gentleman. But things changed when they reunited after a period of long-distance. His sudden shift in behavior—being overly aggressive physically and dismissive of her boundaries—set off warning bells. While he never crossed certain lines, Leah realized his actions felt more objectifying than affectionate. This raised the question: Was he really honoring her, or was he testing how much he could get away with? 2. The Danger of Assumed Agreement Cross-cultural relationships come with unique challenges, but Leah had spent years preparing for this. She believed they had aligned on key values—faith, purity, finances, and family. However, as marriage became imminent, she discovered he had merely tolerated her views rather than sharing them. His ultimate admission? “I thought you would change your mind.” Leah's story is a powerful reminder that assumptions are not agreements, and time does not equal trustworthiness. 3. The Devastating Reality of Calling Off a Wedding Leah's decision to walk away wasn't just about losing a relationship—it meant leaving her home, career, and the future she had envisioned. She grieved not only the man she loved but the life she had built. At almost 40, she also faced the reality that by the time she found another relationship, her window for having biological children might be closed. The depth of this loss was overwhelming, and she cried nearly every day for two years. But in the midst of her pain, she discovered a deeper truth: sometimes, walking away is the bravest thing you can do. 4. Finding Strength Through Core Principles As Leah sought healing, she discovered Leslie Vernick's coaching programs, including Moving Beyond People Pleasing and Walking in Core Strength. These programs provided her with validation, support, and a framework to navigate relationships in a healthier way. Two key lessons stood out: Courageously Committed to the Truth: Holding onto truth and boundaries is not harsh—it's healthy. Jesus embodied grace and truth, and so should we. Empathy Without Enabling: You can love someone deeply while still holding firm boundaries. Someone being upset with you does not make you a bad person. 5. Redefining the Finish Line Many women are raised to believe marriage is the ultimate goal, but Leah has come to see things differently. While she still desires a healthy marriage, she no longer sees it as a measure of her worth. “I know who I am, whether or not I'm married,” she says. “And I will be the same person if I ever do get married as I am right now.” Final Encouragement If you're facing a difficult relationship decision, remember this: Yellow lights don't turn green, they turn red. Ignoring the warning signs won't make them go away. Leah's story is proof that choosing integrity over convenience may be painful, but it leads to true freedom. You are not alone, and you are stronger than you think.

Resources Register for Leslie's Webinar, February 13: "I'm Not Okay When You're Not Okay" Think you might be in a destructive marriage? Get Leslie's Quick Start Guide here.  Do you feel like the weight of every decision in your marriage or family is on your shoulders? Are you struggling with a spouse who refuses to engage or, worse, actively makes things harder? If decision-making feels overwhelming and you're stuck in fear of making the wrong choice, this episode is for you. Leslie Vernick shares insights on overcoming decision paralysis, handling an unengaged spouse, and finding clarity even when the path forward is uncertain. Key Takeaways 1. You Don't Have to Make the Perfect Decision Many people stay stuck in indecision because they fear making the wrong choice. But the truth is, no one has perfect information all the time. Even a wrong decision can provide valuable insight, allowing you to adjust and move forward. Instead of viewing decisions as permanent, think of them as opportunities to learn and course-correct along the way. 2. Indecision Is Still a Decision Choosing not to decide is, in itself, a decision—with its own consequences. If you're paralyzed by fear or waiting for your spouse to take action, recognize that staying in limbo is creating an outcome, too. Instead of waiting for someone else to change, take responsibility for what you can control and move forward with wisdom. 3. How to Handle a Spouse Who Won't Participate in Decision-Making If your spouse is disengaged, you have choices in how you respond: with resentment, with curiosity, or with acceptance. Ask yourself: Is he afraid of making mistakes? Has he been criticized in the past? Does he struggle with change? By approaching the situation with understanding rather than frustration, you can free yourself from bitterness and take action where necessary. 4. Understanding Fear and Avoidance in Decision-Making Fear can be paralyzing, especially for someone who has been conditioned to avoid risk. Some people resist making decisions due to past trauma, upbringing, or personality differences. For example, if your spouse grew up in an environment where mistakes were punished harshly, he may struggle to take initiative. Recognizing this can help you approach the situation with grace rather than resentment. 5. When You're Not Allowed to Make Decisions What if you're on the opposite end of the spectrum—where your spouse makes all the decisions, even when they are harmful? If his leadership is damaging your family financially, emotionally, or spiritually, you may need to establish firm boundaries. Seeking wise counsel, setting limits, and refusing to enable destructive choices are crucial steps in reclaiming your voice and protecting your well-being. 6. The Power of Boundaries and Choice Having boundaries helps you exercise your power of choice. This is what I will do. This is what I won't do. This is what I can do. This is what I can't do. But setting boundaries also means learning to live with others' disappointment and resentment. Whether it's your children, spouse, or extended family, making decisions that are good for you—and ultimately for them—often comes with resistance. Accepting this reality allows you to move forward with confidence rather than guilt. 7. Living from Your Noble Self Instead of Your Emotions Acting out of your noble self means making decisions that align with who you are in Christ, rather than being driven by fear, resentment, or a need for approval. It's about showing up in your life with strength and dignity, just like the Proverbs 31 woman. You don't need to apologize for being wise, decisive, or courageous. God designed you to make choices, and embracing this responsibility is part of spiritual maturity. 8. You Always Have Choices Even in the hardest circumstances, you still have choices. Viktor Frankl, a Holocaust survivor, wrote that everything can be taken from a person except one thing: the ability to choose how they will respond. If you feel trapped in your marriage, your job, or another painful situation, start by asking: How do I want to be in this moment? What small steps can I take toward change? Recognizing your power to choose—even in small ways—can be incredibly freeing. 9. Trusting God in the Decision-Making Process God doesn't expect you to make perfect decisions, but He does call you to trust Him and take action. The Bible says, “You will hear a voice behind you saying, ‘This is the way; walk in it'” (Isaiah 30:21). As you seek wisdom, make the best choice you can, and be open to self-correction when necessary.  

Resources Register here for Leslie's free workshop, "I'm Not Okay When You're Not Okay" Leslie's Quick Start Guide Introduction Have you ever felt trapped in a relationship that looked perfect on the outside but was suffocating behind closed doors? In this episode, Michelle shares her courageous journey from hiding abuse within the walls of the church to stepping into freedom, healing, and a mission to help other women recognize when difficult crosses into destructive. If you've ever questioned whether your struggles in marriage were just normal hardships or something more harmful, Michelle's story will provide clarity, validation, and hope. Key Takeaways 1. Recognizing Red Flags in Christian Courtship Michelle reflects on the early warning signs she overlooked during dating. While her relationship seemed like a picture-perfect Christian courtship, subtle yet significant issues surfaced: boundary-pushing, controlling tendencies, and an inability to respect her differing opinions. If a man says one thing but does another—especially when it comes to physical boundaries—that's a serious character concern. A man's integrity matters more than his words. 2. When Submission Becomes Oppression Michelle shares how scripture was twisted in her marriage, particularly regarding intimacy. Instead of mutual love and respect, biblical teachings were weaponized to demand compliance. She felt like an object rather than a cherished wife. This distortion of faith kept her stuck, believing she had to endure rather than address the toxic dynamic. 3. The Loneliness of an Unseen Battle Perhaps one of the most heartbreaking moments Michelle describes is standing alone in the kitchen late at night, feeling used and unseen, while her husband slept peacefully. She cried out to God, struggling to reconcile her suffering with the belief that divorce was not an option. Her prayers shifted over time—from asking ‘How long, O Lord?' to pleading for rescue. 4. When Christian Marriage Advice Keeps You Trapped Books like Love and Respect made Michelle believe that if she just respected her husband enough, things would change. But no amount of respect can fix a heart unwilling to change. In a healthy marriage, both partners seek growth, repentance, and mutual love. The problem isn't just about how a wife behaves—it's about whether both people are truly honoring God in their marriage. 5. Isolation and Control: A Subtle Form of Abuse Michelle's husband worked to isolate her from friends by criticizing their parenting or questioning their submission. She initially believed his concerns, but over time, she realized it was a tactic to keep her dependent. Meanwhile, he maintained his own friendships, often mentoring men and encouraging their wives to submit, reinforcing harmful dynamics. 6. The Breaking Point: When Abuse Turns Physical Michelle recounts the night her husband physically removed her from their car and abandoned her miles from home. Despite years of emotional and spiritual abuse, this moment shattered her sense of security. Yet, even then, she felt trapped, unsure of where to go or whom to tell. The shame of staying weighed on her, but she also feared the unknown. 7. A Divine Wake-Up Call In 2023, Michelle experienced a powerful moment with God—a dream, a whispered name, and a podcast episode that spoke directly to her situation. This was her turning point. She finally recognized that her marriage wasn't just difficult; it was destructive. With courage, she sought help, setting boundaries and eventually moving out when it became clear her husband was unwilling to change. 8. Finding Strength and Support in Conquer As Michelle searched for answers, she discovered Leslie Vernick through a podcast with Lysa Terkeurst. She dove deep into Leslie's teachings, and after joining the Conquer group, found the validation and strength she needed to break free. With guidance from a Christian counselor and the support of Conquer, Michelle gained the confidence to make empowered decisions for herself and her children. 9. Understanding True Repentance A key revelation for Michelle came from a conversation between Leslie Vernick and Chris Moles. She learned that true repentance isn't just words—it's a heart transformation. A truly repentant man focuses not on regaining control of his wife but on her healing and well-being. This realization helped Michelle recognize that her husband's apologies lacked genuine accountability and change. 10. A New Future: Education and Independence Despite opposition from her husband, Michelle pursued a master's degree, taking one class per semester since 2020. Now, as she approaches graduation in classical studies, she is excited about her future in education, curriculum development, and potentially women's ministry. Her newfound independence is a testament to her resilience and faith. A Call to Freedom If Michelle's story resonates with you, you are not alone. Abuse—whether emotional, spiritual, or physical—is not God's design for marriage. You do not have to stay stuck. There is hope, there is help, and there is a way forward. For more support, visit Leslie Vernick & Co. and explore resources to help you discern truth, find your voice, and take courageous steps toward healing. Closing Encouragement You are precious in God's eyes. He sees your pain, and He does not call you to endure suffering in silence. If you are struggling in a destructive marriage, reach out for help. Healing, freedom, and a life of true peace are possible. You don't have to walk this path alone—God is with you, and so is this community of women who have found strength to step into the light. Stay strong, stay hopeful, and take the next step toward your healing journey today.

In this episode we talk with Leslie Vernick, Licensed Clinical Social Worker and leader of Leslie Vernick & Co, an organization that provides resources, coaching, and community for women who are experiencing destructive relationships. Leslie shares with us the signs of an emotionally destructive relationship, and she gives us tools for how to come alongside someone who is suffering in this way. She also shares ways the Church can get involved and support people who are experiencing destructive relationships. Check out Leslie's ministry by clicking HERE.Become a friend of the podcast by subscribing! Our subscribers are invited to quarterly zoom calls with the hosts, and they have exclusive access through Patreon messages which allows them to ask questions and make suggestions for episodes. Subscribers are also automatically entered into drawings for free books and resources given away by our sponsors. But most importantly, for just $3 a month you become part of the family of friends that keep the Counsel for Life podcast going! Your small membership fee helps to cover the production costs encountered by hosting a free podcast. Thank you for choosing to become a friend of the podcast we are glad you are here and are grateful for you! (Memberships automatically renew each month and can be cancelled at any time.)To learn more, visit our website: www.counselforlifepodcast.com

RESOURCES Leslie's Quick Start Guide Brad Hambrick's Blog: Why Is It So Hard to Have Constructive Conversations About Abuse? Church Cares American Association of Christian Counselors (AACC) Equip Show Notes: Why Churches Resist Abuse Ministry Introduction Have you ever wondered why churches sometimes hesitate or even resist addressing abuse within their congregations? In today's episode, Leslie Vernick unpacks this difficult but vital question. She shares her years of experience working with churches and individuals to create safer spaces for those harmed by abuse. Whether you've felt dismissed by your church, or you're striving to bring change, this conversation offers clarity, hope, and practical steps forward. Together, we'll explore why this resistance exists, what's changing, and how we can be part of the solution. Key Takeaways 1. The History of Church Resistance to Abuse Ministry In the past, many churches believed abuse wasn't a problem among Christians, leading to unsafe environments for children and vulnerable members. Change was driven largely by legal and financial accountability rather than a proactive desire for safety. Churches must recognize the reality of abuse and embrace preventative measures as part of their mission to love and protect their people. 2. The Misconceptions That Fuel Resistance Many church leaders empathize more with the fear of false accusations than with victims' lived experiences, despite false reports being rare. Misunderstandings about what constitutes abuse—such as emotional or sexual abuse within marriage—prevent churches from addressing it effectively. 3. The Role of Leadership in Healthy Relationships Biblical headship is about servant leadership, not power or control. Healthy leaders use their influence to empower and uplift others, reflecting Christ's example. Submission, as taught in Scripture, is a voluntary act rooted in mutual love and respect—not coercion or oppression. 4. Why Individual Healing Must Precede Marriage Work Starting with marriage counseling in abusive situations often leads to failure. Individual healing for both parties is essential before addressing the relationship. Churches can support this process by encouraging personal growth and connecting individuals with appropriate resources. 5. Resources to Equip Churches for Better Ministry Free tools like the Church Cares Curriculum provide essential training for addressing abuse. Leslie's EQUIP group offers ongoing support and education for pastors, counselors, and leaders seeking to handle abuse well. A Personal Invitation If you're a church leader, counselor, or someone who wants to advocate for healthier, safer relationships in your community, take the next step. Visit LeslieVernick.com to learn more about EQUIP and access resources designed to empower leaders and protect the vulnerable. Change is possible when we open our hearts to God's guidance and truly listen to the pain of those around us. If you've been hurt by the church or feel overwhelmed as a leader, know that God sees you and desires healing and growth. Listen to the full episode now and share it with your pastor or church leader! Together, we can foster safer, healthier communities.

Resources: Elyse Fitzpatrick's website Elyse's Books Leslie's Website Leslie's Quick Start Guide In this episode, Leslie Vernick talks with Elyse Fitzpatrick the author of over 25 books on Christian living. Elyse holds a master's degree in biblical counseling from Trinity Theological Seminary and is a popular conference speaker and grandmother to six. Discussing 'Worthy: Celebrating the Value of Women': Overview of Elyse's book 'Worthy.' The book celebrates the value of women in the church and society. The inspiration behind writing 'Worthy.' Writing and Reception: Elyse's experiences around 2019-2020 that led to writing the book. Conversation with Paul Tripp and reading a blog post by Eric Shoemaker. The unexpected pushback received from various groups, including church leaders. Handling Pushback: The surprising amount of resistance to the book's message. Criticisms, including the apparent lack of focus on traditional gender roles. Shock and discouragement faced, even being disinvited from conferences and losing publishing contracts. The Biblical Value of Women: Discussion on the value of women as depicted in the Bible. Examples such as Hagar and the significance of her story in Genesis. Cultural and Church Challenges: Examination of the church's fear of women having power. The issue of power dynamics and the misuse of spiritual teachings to control. Lessons from the Bible: Biblical accounts demonstrating God's use and valuing of women. Stories of women like Eve, Hagar, and Mary of Bethany. Women as Co-laborers in Faith: The importance of recognizing women as equal contributors to the faith. Challenges women face in being seen as more than just traditional roles. Jesus' Treatment of Women: Examples from the New Testament showing Jesus' respect and care for women. Stories of Jesus protecting and valuing women. Resistance and Reconciliation: Different responses to sin and accountability between David and Saul. Importance of genuine repentance and the recognition of women's value in the community.

In this episode of Relationship Truth Unfiltered, Julie Sidenko and relationship expert Leslie Vernick tackle the tough topic of reconciliation. If you've ever wondered when or if you should reconcile in a relationship, this episode is for you. They discuss everything from the reasons why someone might separate to how to know if it's really the right time to come back together. Why Separate? Leslie talks about the big reasons people choose to separate—from safety concerns to ongoing negative behavior and its impact. Separation as a Wake-Up Call Separation can sometimes be a wake-up call. How do you know if it's working? Spotting Real Change It's not just about saying sorry. How do you know your partner has really changed and is ready to reconcile? Legal Stuff You Need to Know Separation isn't just emotional—there are legal aspects to consider. Make sure you're protected. Grace and Boundaries How do you balance giving grace with setting boundaries? We discuss what you can tolerate and what's a deal-breaker. When It's Just Not Going to Work Sometimes, reconciliation isn't possible. Leslie explains when you should consider calling it quits.

In today's episode of Embracing Your Season, Paige shares an interview from her recent trip to AACC (American Association of Christian Counselors) in Dallas, TX with Leslie Vernick. Leslie Vernick is a licensed clinical social worker, relationship coach, and author of multiple books including Emotionally Destructive Marriages, which is the primary topic of this episode. With frank honesty and deep compassion, Leslie shares her broken upbringing and how it influenced the work she does today. Together, Paige and Leslie provide insight into navigating emotionally harmful relationships, how boundary-setting is healthy and helpful, and how working on yourself is the only real way to see change in your life. Paige's TakeawaysHaving firm boundaries is actually loving people wellWhen you have love for yourself as well as love for the individual, you can instill a very rigid boundary of what is right and what is wrong - and that is healthy!You are NOT responsible for fixing themYou are not and cannot be the source of their change. You can be a catalyst but change only comes from the desire of the individual and the power of the Holy Spirit.If you're in an unhealthy relationship (family, friendship, marriage, etc.), at some point you have to grieve that they aren't what you want or what you need. When you realize that these unhealthy relationships are not what God designed, you need the time to grieve. By taking the time to mourn, process, and heal ourselves, we are better equipped to handle the relationship (or to end it) moving forward.Biblical literacy is so important!When you dig into your own Bible, when you do the study, ask God for guidance, and seek mentorship from someone you trust, you are less likely to be emotionally manipulated by someone taking scripture out of context for their gain. Paige ClingenpeelQuestions About the Podcast? Email: paigeclingenpeel@gmail.comFacebook: @Paige ClingenpeelInstagram: @paigeclingenpeelYouTube: Embracing Your Season Sponsored by HomeWordHomeWordConnecting with Leslie VernickLeslie Vernick WebsiteBooks Mentioned:The Emotionally Destructive MarriageKeywords/Hashtags#embracingyourseason #mentalhealth #podcast #podcastcommunity #paigeclingenpeel #homeword #therapy #counseling #aacc #leslievernick #healthyrelationships #unhealthyrelationships #emotionallydestructivemarriage #healing #repair #bible #trust #health #safety #pfcaudiovideo 

RESOURCES: Register Here for Leslie's Free Workshop on December 5th! Honey Lake Clinic Leslie's Quick Start Guide In this episode of Relationship Truth Unfiltered, Leslie Vernick chats with Dr. Karl Benzio about integrating faith and psychiatric science for healing and better decision-making. Dr. Benzio, from Honey Lake Clinic, shares his journey and practical tools like the SPEARS model to help improve mental health and relationships. Don't miss this insightful conversation! Personal Story Karl's journey of struggle and redemption Early Influences Childhood challenges and the impact of faith Faith and Psychiatry Integrating science and faith for healing Practical Advice for Decision-Making Empowering godly decisions in tough relationships SPEARS Decision Making Overview of the SPEARS decision-making model Role of Relationships and Maintenance Importance of daily psychological and spiritual upkeep

RESOURCES Quick Start Guide: www.leslievernick.com/start  Pattern Questions to Ask: When was the first time ... When was the last time...  What is a typical time? What's the worst time? Summary: In this episode, Julie Sedenko and relationship expert Leslie Vernick discuss how to recognize and address destructive relationships. Leslie highlights five key signs of a destructive relationship and offers advice on navigating these challenging situations. Identifying Red Flags in Marriage Explanation of common red flags that may indicate a relationship is becoming destructive. Recognizing Patterns of Destructive Behavior Importance of identifying repeat patterns in behavior that are harmful. Differentiation between occasional mistakes and ongoing destructive patterns. Sign One: Feeling Controlled Indicators of control and manipulation in a relationship. Psychological and emotional impact of being controlled. Sign Two: Feeling Afraid Understanding fear in non-physically abusive relationships. Common fears and their effects on the dynamics of a relationship. Sign Three: Feeling Confused The role of gaslighting in causing confusion. Strategies for regaining clarity and validating one's own reality. Sign Four: Feeling Objectified Recognizing when one is being treated as an object rather than a partner. The emotional toll of objectification. Sign Five: Deception Impact of chronic deception on trust and safety in a relationship. Recognizing the signs of deceit and its consequences. Navigating Deceptive and Manipulative Behavior Dealing with duplicity and manipulation in relationships. Strategies for protecting oneself and maintaining sanity. Taking Control of Your Happiness Personal anecdotes and empowerment stories. Importance of self-celebration and taking charge of one's own well-being. Recognizing Destructive Patterns and Seeking Safety Identifying patterns and understanding their frequency and intensity. Assessing personal boundaries and safety measures.

In this episode of Relationship Truth Unfiltered, Leslie Vernick interviews Michelle Hord, a former producer of Good Morning America. Michelle shares her heartbreaking yet inspiring story of losing her daughter Gabrielle at the hands of her soon-to-be ex-husband and her journey of resilience and faith thereafter.   The Tragic Event Description of the tragic event involving Michelle's daughter, Gabrielle. Emotional and psychological impact on Michelle and her family. Life Before the Tragedy Insights into Michelle's marriage and reasons for the divorce. Discussion about emotional abuse and its impact. Gabrielle's Personality Michelle's memories of Gabrielle. Gabrielle's character and memorable traits. The Night of the Tragedy Details of the night Gabrielle's life was taken. Michelle's immediate reactions and actions following the event. Immediate Aftermath Steps Michelle took following the tragedy. The support system that helped her through the initial shock. Regaining Power and Faith Michelle's journey to regain her power and sense of self. Her process of rebuilding faith and resilience. Book Discussion: The Other Side of Yet Introduction of Michelle's book. Explanation of the book's title and central themes. Defiant Faith Discussion on the concept of defiant faith. How Michelle has embraced defiance against evil and adversity. Support Systems Importance of having a strong support system during crises. Examples of how Michelle's friends supported her through difficult times. Gabrielle's Wings Foundation Overview of the Gabrielle's Wings Foundation. The mission and activities of the foundation to honor Gabrielle's legacy. Conclusion and Prayer Closing thoughts from Leslie and Michelle. Prayer for listeners facing their own battles with evil and hardship. Additional Details: Links and Resources: Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) Gabrielle's Wings Foundation Website Purchase Michelle Hord's Book  Michelle Hord's Website Leslie Vernick's Free Quick Start Guide Social Media Contacts: Follow Leslie Vernick on Instagram and Facebook Follow Gabrielle's Wings on Instagram and Facebook `

RESOURCES: REGISTER HERE for Leslie's FREE Workshop, If He Doesn't Hit Me, Is it Still Abuse? God Cares. September 24th, 2024, 12pm & 7:30pm Eastern JOIN CONQUER!! September 24 - October 4th In this episode, Betty shares her journey through CONQUER, a program that played a pivotal role in her life, first as a married woman and later after her divorce. She discusses how she rediscovered her core values, tackled people-pleasing habits, and found invaluable community support. Her story is a testament to personal growth and resilience, offering hope and a heartfelt prayer for those facing tough times. Twice the Impact: Betty took CONQUER courses twice—first married, then divorced in December 2016. She reflects on how this dual experience shaped her perspective and growth. Discovering Authenticity: Betty's journey to rediscover her core values. Insightful question: "Who did God make you to be?" Moving Beyond People Pleasing: Role plays and self-awareness exercises in CONQUER helped her recognize and overcome patterns of people-pleasing. Community and Support: Importance of community in Betty's healing journey. Deep connections and friendships formed through CONQUER. Transformation and Growth: Betty's evolution spiritually and emotionally. Living authentically and secure in identity and faith. Gratitude and Mentorship: Betty's shares her appreciation for Leslie Vernick's mentorship and teaching. Impactful moments of support and guidance. Finding Meaning in Difficult Times: Drawing from Isaiah 45:3—finding treasures in darkness. Recognizing God's presence and provision in challenging times. Encouragement for Listeners: Words of encouragement for those in similar journeys. Embrace inner work, community support, and spiritual growth. Closing Thoughts and Prayer: Betty's closing reflections on her journey. Heartfelt prayer for listeners in difficult circumstances.  

Are women weaker in any way? Is that what 1 Peter 3 teaches? Do they have roles that can be described as weaker? Based on insights from Genesis 3:16 Bruce responds to Lauren's questions in Part 2 of this replay from her livestream to her 20,000 followers.Bruce is interviewed by Lauren who was a Jane Doe in the Bill Gothard lawsuit. Based on a recent survey she asks, How mistranslations and misinterpretations of the key passages on women and men have been weaponized? Should these passages be mistrusted or should those wayward teachings and their proponents by mistrusted? In Part Two of this interview Lauren asks Bruce about more troubling passages. What about 1 Peter 3:1-7? What about Ephesians 5:15-6:9?Go Deeper? Bruce has written four volumes in The Eden Book Series. He refers to Book 4 (on 1 Corinthians 11 & 14 and 1 Peter 3), and Book 2 (on Ephesians 5-6) in this episode. All four are based on his doctoral research and that of Joy Fleming. Available here on Amazon: https://amzn.to/4dhU0LH  The Tru316 Foundation (www.Tru316.com) is the home of The Eden Podcast with Bruce C. E. Fleming where we “true” the verse of Genesis 3:16. The Tru316 Message is that “God didn't curse Eve (or Adam) or limit woman in any way.” Once Genesis 3:16 is made clear the other passages on women and men become clear too. You are encouraged to access the episodes of Seasons 1-11 of The Eden Podcast for teaching on the seven key passages on women and men. Are you a reader? We invite you to get from Amazon the four books by Bruce C. E. Fleming in The Eden Book Series (Tru316.com/trubooks). Would you like to support the work of the Tru316 Foundation? You can become a Tru Partner here: www.Tru316.com/partner

Understanding Emotional Abuse: Disappointing vs. Destructive Marriages In this episode of the Grace Fueled Wife Podcast, I'm delving into the critical difference between disappointing and destructive marriages. Building on last week's discussion about emotional abuse, I reference Leslie Vernick's book, 'Emotionally Destructive Marriage,' to provide clarity. We explore what it means to feel emotionally unsafe and identify when it crosses into abuse. We'll also discuss the importance of fully disclosing your situation to a therapist for proper guidance and support, even if it means going alone. This episode aims to offer insights and resources for those struggling in emotionally abusive relationships and emphasizes that you do not have to live in such a nightmare, even as a Christian. Stay tuned as we navigate these heavy but essential topics together.   00:00 Introduction: The Fear of Speaking Up 00:29 Understanding Emotional Abuse 02:44 Disappointing vs. Destructive Marriages 03:36 Real-Life Examples and Quotes 05:24 Therapist's Role and Client Disclosure 10:59 Mandated Reporting and Emotional Safety 15:14 Concluding Thoughts and Resources Wait!!! Before you go!  Here are some ways you can work with me or become a part of my community! Join my community on Facebook - The Grace Fueled Wives Club https://www.facebook.com/groups/GraceFueledWifeCommunity Become an Insider and get updates on all the podcast news.  Gracefueledwifesteps.gr8.com

RESOURCES: Register Here for Leslie's Free Workshop Are You in a Destructive Marriage Test/Quick Start Guide Pam's Journey: Reflects on her marriage of over two decades overshadowed by manipulation and deceit. Discovering her husband's hidden behaviors: excessive gambling, pornography use, and financial mismanagement. The emotional toll of deception and cycles of hope and disappointment. The turning point: uncovering infidelity and confronting the reality of emotional abuse. Navigating Healing and Transformation: Coping with legal and financial challenges amidst ongoing deceit and manipulation. Finding solace in resources like Leslie Vernick's teachings and support groups. Recognizing and addressing emotional abuse: setting boundaries and focusing on personal healing. Spiritual growth and redefining beliefs about marriage and submission. Reflections and Moving Forward: Challenges and victories in navigating divorce and rebuilding self-worth. The role of support systems: friends, family, and therapeutic interventions. Embracing opportunities for personal growth and fulfillment beyond the confines of marriage. Insights into reclaiming identity and finding empowerment in life after abuse.

RESOURCES: Leslie's Quick Start Guide Walking Away from Unhealthy Dynamics Lynne's decision to metaphorically "walk off the court" when facing marital challenges. Importance of recognizing when to stop playing a destructive game. Setting Boundaries and Maintaining Self Lynne's experience with setting boundaries post-separation. The significance of boundaries in self-preservation and emotional well-being. Recognition of Destructive Patterns Lynne's journey from questioning to validating the destructive nature of her marriage. Impact of validation on personal clarity and self-trust. Shift in Perspective and Faith Lynne's revelation about personal value and the impact of church teachings on marriage. Finding validation and clarity in her own journey. Learning and Growth Lynne's personal growth through learning from Leslie Vernick and other resources. Overcoming self-doubt and embracing new perspectives on relationships. Emotional Resilience and Transformation Lynne's emotional journey pre and post-discovery of core strength and emotional regulation. Techniques and tools for managing emotional responses and fostering resilience. Physical and Emotional Healing Lynne's experience with physical health challenges and their intersection with emotional well-being. Strategies for prioritizing self-care and healing during separation. Guarding Your Heart Practical advice on recognizing vulnerability and protecting emotional integrity. Lynne's personal insights on avoiding pitfalls and maintaining personal values. Conclusion Reflections on Lynne's journey and advice for women in similar situations. Encouragement to seek support, prioritize self-care, and embrace personal growth.

RESOURCES: Leslie's Free Webinar: www.leslievernick.com/o Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE Leslie Vernick's book: The Emotionally Destructive Marriage In this episode of Relationship Truth: Unfiltered, Julie Sedenko and Leslie Vernick delve into the concept of "core strength" and its critical importance for women navigating destructive relationships. This episode is designed for any woman who feels she may be in a harmful relationship, offering practical insights on how to build and use core strength in everyday life, whether she chooses to stay or leave. Understanding Core Strength: Leslie shares her personal journey of realizing the importance of core strength, not just physically but emotionally and spiritually. She introduces the concept with a metaphor of physical fitness, explaining how just as a strong core prevents physical collapse, emotional core strength prevents women from collapsing under the weight of a destructive relationship. Core Strength Components: Courageously Committed to Truth: Living in reality, not denial, and embracing the truth even when it's difficult. Open to the Holy Spirit and Wise Others: The importance of being teachable and surrounding oneself with wisdom rather than just strong opinions. Taking Responsibility: Understanding personal responsibility for one's safety, well-being, and character development without shifting blame. Empathy with Boundaries: Balancing compassion with the necessity of setting boundaries that protect against enabling destructive behavior. Practical Applications: Leslie and Julie explore practical scenarios where core strength is applied, including handling disagreements about finances, asserting one's needs, and setting boundaries with a controlling or abusive partner. They discuss the importance of detachment and how women can maintain their emotional and spiritual well-being despite external pressures from a difficult partner. Facing Reality and Fear: The episode addresses the fear of confronting harsh realities, like leaving an abusive situation or facing the consequences of setting boundaries. Leslie emphasizes the need to acknowledge fear but not let it dictate actions. Building a Safety Plan: The importance of having a safety plan is discussed for women who find themselves in physically dangerous situations. Resources and steps to create a safety plan are provided. Wise Counsel and Discernment: How to discern between wise advice and manipulative counsel, especially in a church setting. The importance of aligning advice with the true character of God, as revealed through Jesus, is highlighted.

RESOURCES Just Enough Light for the Step I'm On: Trusting God in the Tough Times by Stormie OMartian Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick Quick Start Guide: www.leslievernick.com/start Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE)   Reflecting on the Past Laura talks about her hard memories of the marriage bed and how she took time after leaving her marriage to observe how others interacted in their marriages. She realized that healthy relationships exist and had to rewrite the script in her mind about what is normal and healthy. Challenging the Spouse Laura describes how challenging her husband or saying no would lead to either being ignored, receiving a different storyline, or being told she was wrong. She mentions how this would escalate to character assassination, erasing what she thought and wanted, making her feel she had to go along with what he did. Hitting the Wall As her kids got older, financial troubles and unstable work for her husband added to the stress. Three occasions in four months where her husband physically hit her were pivotal. After the first incident, she contacted the church, seeking accountability, but it led to no meaningful support. Her husband never acknowledged his actions. Lack of Support and Apologies Laura shares how her husband never apologized or acknowledged the abuse, often claiming that incidents never happened or were accidental. Physical and Emotional Abuse Laura explains why she did not call the police, mentioning her fear of creating a bigger mess and the belief that any report would lead to someone going to jail. She learned the importance of documentation and how having a case number could have helped her later. Fear and Control Laura recounts another incident where her husband shoved her out of bed, leading her to scream for help. She didn't call the police, fearing the consequences. Her husband continued to downplay and dismiss her concerns. Finding Leslie Vernick After these incidents, Laura tried one more round of counseling. Seeing her husband act cruelly towards his mother was a turning point. A friend recommended Leslie Vernick's book, which gave her the words to explain her experiences and recognize the patterns of abuse. Joining Conquer Laura joined Conquer in 2017. Leslie's teachings and the supportive community were a godsend. She learned about her identity in Christ and how to have healthy relationships, which helped her grow and heal. Grieving and Healing Leaving a 32-year marriage involved a grief process for Laura. Time and counseling have been healing. She had to intentionally remember the good times and not vilify her ex. Now, she can pray for him and look forward to advancing God's kingdom in her life. Moving Forward and Dating Again After seven years of being divorced, Laura is cautiously open to a new relationship. She approaches it differently, being mindful and keeping other people engaged. She remains true to herself and looks for mutual engagement and respect. Conclusion Laura encourages women in similar situations to see their own beauty and courage. She advises focusing on personal health and taking steps towards independence. Empowering oneself and one's children towards Christ and their own identity is crucial. Encouragement and Next Steps Laura emphasizes the importance of focusing on individual wellness and taking the next right step. She suggests creating a safety plan and being around supportive people who will speak life into you.  

Resources: Dr. Henry Cloud's new book: "Why I Believe"   Online platform with courses by Dr. Cloud Dr. Cloud's book, Necessary Endings Leslie's Quick Start Guide: Find out if you're in a destructive relationship In today's episode, Leslie Vernick sits down with Dr. Henry Cloud, the acclaimed leadership expert, clinical psychologist, and best-selling author known for his influential books "Boundaries" and "Necessary Endings." With over 45 years of experience, Dr. Cloud has helped millions integrate faith and psychology into their lives. In this enlightening conversation, Leslie and Dr. Cloud discuss his newest book, "Why I Believe," a deeply personal narrative that diverges from his usual clinical and business-focused writings. This book delves into Dr. Cloud's journey of faith, his childhood experiences, and the profound moments that shaped his spiritual beliefs. Key Points: Introduction to Dr. Henry Cloud: Leslie introduces Dr. Cloud, highlighting his significant contributions through his books and his integration of faith and psychology. Dr. Cloud's credentials: best-selling author, leadership expert, and clinical psychologist with over 45 years of experience. The Motivation Behind "Why I Believe": Dr. Cloud shares the impetus for writing a book about his faith journey at this point in his life. Initial intention to create a small pamphlet for his friends, which evolved into a full-fledged book due to the widespread need among Christians to share their faith. Dr. Cloud's Personal Faith Journey: Growing up in a Southern Methodist home with a faith that was real but not front and center. His struggles with depression and a turning point during his college years when he earnestly sought God. Miraculous Experiences: Dr. Cloud recounts miraculous experiences, including finding a pastor's house through divine guidance and the profound moment of feeling God's presence in his car. How these experiences affirmed his belief in God despite not immediately curing his depression. Intellectual Obstacles and Resolution: Addressing intellectual challenges such as the existence of suffering and the relationship between science and scripture. Dr. Cloud's deep dive into various scientific fields and his conclusion that there is no conflict between science and the Bible when approached without atheistic presuppositions. Integration of Psychology and Scripture: Dr. Cloud's perspective on how psychological science validates biblical teachings. The inclusion of personal miracle stories in his book to illustrate the tangible impact of faith. The Problem of Evil and Suffering: Leslie and Dr. Cloud address the age-old question: If God is good and real, why does He allow suffering, especially the suffering of innocent people? Dr. Cloud explains that the root cause lies in the concept of free will. God created humans with the freedom to love Him or reject Him, and this freedom extends to all human actions, including harmful ones. The Nature of Love and Freedom: Love cannot exist without freedom. Just as in human relationships, love must be freely given and received; otherwise, it is not true love. God set boundaries to guide humans, but the freedom to choose remains, leading to both good and evil actions. God's Foreknowledge and Plan: While God knew the potential for evil, He also prepared a plan for redemption through Jesus Christ, even before the foundation of the world. The presence of evil and suffering is part of the larger narrative of freedom and redemption. God's Presence in Suffering: Dr. Cloud shares a powerful testimony of a man who envisioned Jesus taking his place during a beating from his father, illustrating that Jesus deeply empathizes with our suffering. Jesus' identification with our pain and His presence in our suffering provides a profound sense of comfort and solidarity. Addressing Intellectual and Emotional Challenges: Dr. Cloud acknowledges that intellectual answers often fall short of providing emotional satisfaction when it comes to understanding suffering. He emphasizes the importance of trusting in God's infinite love and wisdom, even when we cannot comprehend His ways fully. Role of the Church and Community: The importance of the church's role in standing against abuse and supporting victims. Dr. Cloud critiques the misuse of scripture to justify abusive relationships and encourages victims to seek help from compassionate and understanding leaders. Empowerment and Responsibility: God has delegated the responsibility to humans to act against evil and support those in need. Encouragement for individuals and communities to step up and make a difference in the lives of those who are suffering. Encouragement for Victims: Dr. Cloud offers heartfelt advice to victims of abuse, emphasizing the importance of seeking safety and help. He highlights the significance of finding supportive communities and leaders who will stand against abuse and provide the necessary support.

While Dan usually joins me, I am solo today with Rev. Iris Knapp as we talk about abuse in the neurodiverse marriage. We cover Leslie Vernick's signs of repentance and why apologizing is difficult for people on the spectrum.About our Guest, Rev. Iris KnappWomen's Life & Discernment CoachIris has over 50 years of ministry experience and is now a Life Coach. She was raised Jewish and came to know Jesus as Messiah in 1969 during the “Jesus Freak” revival.She is certified with Light University, AIFC Australian Institute of Family Counseling, Ministerial Licensed with IAOG International Assemblies of God Fellowship, and ND Training with the International Association of ND Christian Couples. She has personal family ties to the autism spectrum. Her passion is to see women fulfill their potential in their God-given calling, and her heart is to lead women through restoration, growth, and purpose so that they can be all that God has created them to be.Iris has contributed to a chapter of the book Uniquely Us. Follow the launch and how to order it at:https://www.christianneurodiversemarriage.com/uniquelyusWant to work with Iris or join a group:https://coachingwithiris.com/The article we mentioned about apologies is:https://www.thearticulateautistic.com/why-many-autistic-people-have-trouble-apologizing/

On this episode: Nate changed religions to pescatarian and Aaron talks about when he was vegan. They also discuss the podcast break and England long-walk. Our Guest: Leslie Vernick - host of Relationship Truth: Unfiltered podcast. They discuss the reality that new curtains don't fix the termites in the basement of our relationships. Leslie explains the truth that we want people in our lives, but some people use each other as objects. She gives examples of many types of abuse that can happen in a relationship. There is hope for change. We have to own what we do and do what it takes to get better. There is a difference between healthy and unhealthy sinners. She gives many pointers to husbands and wives for intimacy, restoration and amends. Links:   Leslie Vernick Relationship Truth: Unfiltered Podcast Events: 2024 Samson Summit Sponsor: Life Works Counseling   If you have thoughts or questions that you'd like the guys to address in upcoming episodes or suggestions for future guests, please drop a note to piratemonkpodcast@gmail.com.   The music on this podcast is contributed by members of the Samson Society and www.fiftysounds.com. For more information on this ministry, please visit samsonsociety.com.  Support for the women who have been impacted by our choices is available at sarahsociety.com. The Pirate Monk Podcast is provided by Samson Society, a ministry of Samson House, a 501(c)3 nonprofit. To help support the vision, please consider a contribution to Samson House.

RESOURCES: JOIN HERE: Moving Beyond Insecurity Coaching Week Day One Journal App Lundy Bancroft: Why Does He Do That? Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE) In this episode, Julie talks to Kay, a woman who adopted children later in life and dealt with a very destructive marriage. She knew from the beginning there were issues, but chose to try and make it work anyway. Learn from her mistakes and listen to the hope she has to offer. Early Signs and Struggles: Kay recounts the lack of red flags during courtship, the first major incident on their honeymoon, and the initial discovery of her husband's infidelity. Julie and Kay discuss the shock and embarrassment Kay felt upon discovering these betrayals. Cycles of Abuse and Financial Instability: Kay describes the cycles of destructive behavior, the impact of her husband's work-related stress on their family life, and his inability to maintain steady employment. She also shares her experience of financial abuse and a pivotal event in her marriage. Turning Points and Seeking Help: The critical moment Kay found Leslie Vernick's book, "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage," which provided hope and clarity. Kay's decision to make significant changes for the well-being of her children and herself. Filing for Divorce and Health Challenges: Kay recounts the moment her husband revealed his troubling mindset, believing it was a wife's duty to endure abuse and die. Shortly after filing for divorce, Kay was diagnosed with breast cancer and decided to keep it private for her own safety and her children's well-being. Rebuilding and Moving Forward: Kay reflects on her journey to safety, securing legal protection and custody rights, and the relief of a stable life for her children. She expresses gratitude for her friends' support and the strength she found through faith and community. Final Thoughts and Hope for the Future: Kay shares her commitment to teaching her children the value of truth and self-respect. She offers advice to women in similar situations: Be honest with yourself, seek support, and prioritize your well-being and safety. Key Takeaways: Over-functioning in a marriage can mask deeper issues of abuse and inequality. Financial abuse can take many forms, including minimal contribution and control over household expenses. Journaling and honest reflection are crucial in understanding and addressing abuse. Supportive communities and honest friendships are invaluable in navigating and recovering from destructive relationships. Practical and realistic interpretations of scripture can provide clarity and strength in challenging times.

227 Resolving Conflict in Marriage with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo   *DISCLAIMER* This episode is intended for adults   Proverbs 15:1 (NIV) "A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger."   As co-hosts of the top marriage podcast in Apple Podcasts, the ONE Extraordinary Marriage Show, Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo speak to a worldwide audience about sex, love & commitment, and challenge every listener to make their relationship a priority. Their best selling book, The 6 Pillars of Intimacy, has transformed countless marriages around the world. This framework is simple, practical, and powerful. You'll be inspired to look at your marriage through a new lens and be encouraged by its commonsense approach.   One Extraordinary Marriage Website One Extraordinary Marriage Show   Questions We Discuss: For couples who are not in destructive and abusive marriages, what are typical conflict styles and cycles? What conflict have you had recently and how did you process through it? What are common issues couples fight about?   Thank You to Our Sponsor: WinShape Marriage   Other Episode Mentioned from The Savvy Sauce: 146 Biblical Response to Emotionally Destructive Relationships with Leslie Vernick   190 Sex Series: Six Pillars of Intimacy with Tony and Alisa DiLorenzo   205 Power of Movement with Alisa Keeton (Revelation Wellness)   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

In this podcast episode, Julie Sedenko talks to Tracy, a member of Leslie Vernick's Conquer support group, about her experiences in a destructive marriage and her journey towards healing and self-discovery. Tracy opens up about her traumatic childhood, raised by a single mother who struggled with addiction and neglect. She shares how her early life experiences, including abuse and gaslighting from her mother, influenced her perceptions of relationships. Tracy talks about her first marriage, which ended amicably, and how she entered her second marriage with hope and optimism. She discusses the red flags she overlooked in her second marriage, such as her husband's emotional unavailability and inappropriate relationships with other women. Tracy highlights the importance of seeking counseling and finding support when facing a destructive marriage. She reflects on her journey of self-discovery, growth, and faith in God, leading to her healing and peace. Tracy's story is a testament to resilience and the power of faith and self-worth in overcoming challenging circumstances.

Welcome to this episode where we tackle the tough topic of sexual addiction. Julie Sedenko chats with relationship expert Leslie Vernick, and they dig deep into the emotions and challenges involved. If you or someone you know is dealing with a similar situation, stay tuned for some valuable insights and practical tips. Understanding Anger: Julie discusses the challenges faced by individuals dealing with a spouse's sexual addiction. Leslie emphasizes the importance of acknowledging and addressing anger as a valid emotion in this situation. Part 1: Dealing with Anger Leslie shares insights on how individuals can manage their anger constructively when facing a spouse's sexual addiction. The discussion covers the significance of not suppressing anger and finding healthy outlets for it. Suggestions include venting to a friend, counselor, or support group, as well as engaging in activities like writing, physical exercise, or even crying to release emotional tension. The importance of recognizing that anger is a signal that something is wrong and can provide the energy needed for positive change is emphasized. Retaliating against the spouse's actions is discouraged, and the focus is on constructive ways to handle anger. Part 2: Seeking Help and Making Choices The conversation emphasizes the need for support and the importance of setting boundaries to protect one's well-being. Encouragement is given to the spouse with the addiction to seek help and support. Leslie addresses the question of whether it's possible for someone to truly overcome sexual addiction and explains the need for ongoing support and accountability. The importance of making choices and reframing one's perspective is discussed. A shift from asking, "Why is this happening to me?" to "Why is this happening for me?" is encouraged. The conclusion emphasizes that individuals are capable of handling difficult situations and emotions and encourages seeking support and resources to cope with anger while navigating this challenging journey. Conclusion: Individuals can do hard things, and there are people willing to help them through it. Resources: Leslie's Quick Start Guide She Deserves Better by Sheila Gregoire

Turns out you actually don't have to suffer for Jesus.Leslie Vernick is the author of many books, including the best selling, The Emotionally Destructive Relationship, which has stayed at the top of the list in the pastoral counseling genre for quite some time. Today she joins me with a message for many, especially those of faith: God does not hate all divorce. Some of you may be thinking, Divorce?? Isn't that extreme? ??Leslie shares about the women she has worked with; And their marriages are beyond disappointing; they are destructive. She has a test on her website where you can figure out where your relationship stands. But for these women, there is likely no room left to improve or change; instead, the only person they can change is themselves, like switching up your dance moves with a bad dance partner.A destructive marriage is one filled with imbalanced power, abuse, dread, and no safety. This is bad for anyone, but particularly those with children. Leslie stands firm that every child deserves one healthy parent, way more than a “complete” family in a tumultuous state.In her book and counseling services, and even in church leader education, Leslie's goal is for women to leave destructive relationships behind to become safe, sane, and stronger.If you believe in traditional Christian religion and its stories, Leslie wants you to know that the Bible doesn't shame divorce, and God doesn't want you to feel pain.A destructive relationship might be part of your story, but it doesn't have to be the end of it; there can be a healthy, wonderful life on the other side.What's Inside:Not all divorces are equal, why “God doesn't hate all divorce”.How to tell the difference between a destructive versus disappointing marriage.The goal of Leslie Vernick's book and counseling: Safe, Sane, and Stronger.The dangers in abusive relationships.Why one healthy parent is better than a complete family.Leslie speaks a lot about divorce in general and through the Christian lens. Are you struggling in your relationship? If her advice speaks to you, I wanna hear about it!  Let me know on Insta!Mentioned In This Episode:Leslie VernickLeslie Berg Vernick (@leslie.vernick) on InstagramFit Feels Good (@oonaghduncan) on InstagramJoin the Masters of Fitness Awesomeness info@fitfeelsgood.com 

    Recognizing the Signs of Abuse Carrie reflects on her experience of being in abusive relationships, particularly with her second husband, who exhibited gaslighting and narcissistic behaviors. She discusses the covert nature of her second husband's abuse and how he could present himself as kind and harmless to others. Seeking Safety and Coping Mechanisms Carrie opens up about her motivation to stay in her second marriage despite recognizing the abuse. She attributes this decision to her desire to provide financial stability for her son. She discusses how her husband would use extravagant gestures to keep her son connected and happy. Treated Like a Child Carrie talks about how her second husband treated her like a child, limiting her authority and decision-making power. She shares her frustration about her husband undermining her disciplinary actions with her children when he returned from business trips. Misdiagnosis and Spiritual Journey Carrie reveals that she had been misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder and put on medication for seven years. She shares how she turned to her faith and embarked on a spiritual journey, finding solace and guidance through scripture and prayer. Discovering Leslie Vernick and Emotional Healing Carrie discusses how she stumbled upon Leslie Vernick's teachings and how they resonated with her. She describes the impact of reading "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage" and attending Leslie's workshops on her healing journey. Escaping the Trap and Finding Strength Carrie vividly expresses the emotional toll of her toxic marriage, comparing it to feeling trapped and needing to chew off her own leg to escape. She shares how her life has changed since leaving her second husband and how she is rebuilding her life. Learning to Ask for What She Wants Carrie talks about the importance of learning to ask for what she wants and how it has improved her relationships. She mentions that people now have more respect for her since she has become more assertive and self-assured. Words of Encouragement Carrie offers words of encouragement to listeners who may be going through similar struggles, emphasizing that there is hope and they are not alone. She advises seeking support, doing the necessary work, and being willing to open up the past for healing. Conclusion: Carrie's story serves as a testament to the power of self-discovery, faith, and healing after facing multiple divorces and challenging life experiences. Resources Mentioned: Register for Leslie's free workshop on December 5, 2023: www.leslievernick.com/story Learn more about Leslie's other programs, Walking in Core Strength program, Moving Beyond People Pleasing, and Empowered to Change at www.leslievernick.com . : www.leslievernick.com  

What does the Bible say about emotional abuse? Listen to the podcast or watch on YouTube. Hello ,  Emotional abuse is often diminished or dismissed for many reasons – even in the church. When this happens, the lack of validation can feel confusing and powerless for the victim, but this is not God's way.  At […] The post What is Emotional Abuse? – with Leslie Vernick appeared first on Treasured Ministries.

    Segment 2: Seeking Guidance and Empowerment Mentorship from a couple within her denomination. Realizing her right to financial independence. Support in confronting deception in her marriage. Involvement of church leadership in her marital issues. Segment 3: The Power of Supportive Community Joining a Bible study and a revealing conversation about divorce. Articulating the decision to leave her abusive marriage. Difficulty in deciding to leave due to various abuses endured. Recognizing the abuse with the help of a friend. A New Beginning Pursuit of educational growth, including a bachelor's and master's degree. Commitment to a slow and steady approach to personal growth. Desire to help others find their strengths and break destructive cycles.  Big Hairy Audacious Goals (BHAG) The role of the Conquer program in setting and achieving BHAGs. Importance of utilizing resources like Conquer and courses by Leslie Vernick. Developing a clearer sense of identity and purpose. Overcoming Self-Doubt Sharing a poignant poem from 2008 reflecting past self-perception. Contrasting past self with the empowered woman she has become. Flourishing comes with a price but is worth pursuing. Resources: www.leslievernick.com Quick Start Guide: www.leslievernick.com/start Breaking Night: A Memoir of Forgiveness, Survival, and My Journey from Homeless to Harvard by Liz Murray https://a.co/d/1D4CTBe

In the wake of the #MeToo movement, the Church has been forced to confront its own demons and the uncomfortable reality that some of our teachings have served as breeding grounds for abuse. Concepts like headship and submission, silencing women, limiting their roles to motherhood and wifehood, and even the disturbing idea that a woman must acquiesce to her husband's desires at all times have all contributed to a culture of harm rather than healing.The Emotionally Destructive RelationshipThe Emotionally Destructive MarriageThe Headship of Men and The Abuse Of Women

In this episode, Julie Sedenko & Leslie Vernick discuss the importance and the challenges of speaking up in relationships, particularly in difficult or destructive marriages. The Challenge of Speaking Up: In destructive marriages, speaking up can be scary and unsafe. Balancing the need to speak up for oneself with the potential negative responses. Referencing Matthew 7, where Jesus warns about casting pearls before swine. The Value of Learning to Speak Up: Emphasizing the importance of speaking up for oneself in mature relationships. The need for effective communication to build healthier relationships. Acknowledging that speaking up doesn't always mean speaking in the heat of the moment. Guidelines for Speaking Up: The wisdom of using biblical teachings to navigate different situations. Differentiating between speaking about someone else's behavior and one's own feelings. Self-reflection is important before addressing others' behaviors. Approach others with humility and understanding. Navigating Difficult Conversations: How to keep things calm when a partner isn't interested in listening or finding solutions. A different approach to asking about their perspective on a healthy marriage. Recognizing contradictory expectations about marriage and communication. Preparing for Meaningful Conversations: The importance of preparation and groundwork before discussing sensitive topics. The significance of speaking with love. Balancing truth with love to avoid coming across as harsh. Hard conversations require personal preparation for effective communication. The Five Levels of Conversation: Superficial chitchat. Sharing news and facts. Sharing personal thoughts and ideas. Sharing feelings. Sharing one's essence and deepest self. Creating a Safe Space for Conversations: Understanding potential reasons for a partner's escalation or shutdown. Addressing a partner's potential fear of feeling incompetent. Encouraging compassion and patience in understanding each other's limitations. Comparing emotional intimacy to physical intimacy. Overcoming Resistance and Creating Safety What happens when one partner resists opening up or having deep conversations.  Establishing a safe space is crucial. This can be done through various boundaries and techniques.  Balancing Expectations and Reality Sometimes partners have different communication styles and comfort levels.  Understanding your partner's background, upbringing, and communication patterns can help bridge the gap.  Recognize that not all conversations need to be extensive or immediate. Patience and consistency are key. Navigating Disagreements and Escalation How to handle situations when a conversation has escalated.  Emphasize mutual respect and recognize when emotions are becoming heated. Resources: Walking in Core Strength Group Coaching Program: www.leslievernick.com/strength Love Talk Starters: 275 Questions to Get Your Conversations Going by Les & Leslie Parrott

In this episode of "Relationship Truth Unfiltered," join host Julie Sedenko in a powerful conversation with Kim, a courageous woman who shares her story of transformation from a brutally destructive marriage marred by serial infidelity and emotional abuse. Kim's journey of discovering the truth, finding her self-worth, and rebuilding her life offers hope and inspiration to women facing similar challenges. From the struggles of uncovering deception to the healing process of breaking free and eventually finding love and acceptance, Kim's story reminds us of the importance of recognizing our own value, seeking support, and embracing the potential for positive change.   Uncovering the Destructive Marriage Kim's Experience: Victim of Serial Infidelity and Emotional Abuse Dealing with Confusion and Suspicion in the Marriage Living in Denial and Silent Suffering Unearthing Clues and Inappropriate Behavior Coping with Deception and Anonymous Infidelity Struggles of Identifying Anonymity and Facing Denial Kim's Inner Struggles: Dealing with Shame and Silence The Emotional Toll and Breaking Points Emotional Impact of Discovering Infidelity and Betrayal Coping with Emotional Abuse and Trauma Living with Fear and Anxiety in the Marriage The Silent Suffering and Desperation of Seeking Answers Wrestling with Values and Church Influence Conflicts between Religious Beliefs and Personal Well-being Coping with Conservative Church Teachings on Divorce Kim's Internal Struggle: Balancing Family Values and Personal Safety Overcoming Societal Expectations and Finding Self-Worth Discovering Truth and Seeking Healing The Turning Point: Finding Leslie Vernick's Book Kim's Revelation: Recognizing the Destructive Patterns Lessons from Leslie Vernick's Coaching Groups: Empowered to Change, Walking in Core Strength, and Conquer Preparing for a New Journey Learning to Value Oneself and Seek Safety Overcoming Destructive Thought Patterns Finding a Healthy Love After a Destructive Marriage The Transition from Victim to Survivor and Thriver Embracing a New Beginning Kim's Journey to a Healthy Relationship Night and Day Difference: Old Marriage vs. New Marriage Transitioning from Idolizing Marriage to Finding Personal Wholeness The Importance of Focusing on Safety and Healing First Advice for Those in Similar Situations Face the Truth and Seek Safety Take Time to Make Decisions Acknowledge the Painful Process of Transformation The Precious New Life on the Other Side of Struggle Continuing the Healing Journey Accepting Imperfection and Continuing Personal Growth Dealing with Triggers and Self-Esteem Issues The Lifelong Process of Overcoming Deep-Seated Patterns Empowering Women to Embrace Their Worth and Seek Healing

I love Jesus and He for sure loves me, but he didn't literally hold me in the flesh as I cried myself to sleep all those years. So, what do we do with loneliness? resources: wholeness help: *Facebook group for all women: https://elisabethklein.com/join-wholehearted-group/ *top 10 tips for taking care of you: https://elisabethklein.com/top-ten-tips/ *fill out this coaching survey and I'll respond with a custom coaching proposal: bit.ly/how-is-your-life-working in a difficult marriage? *marriage assessment: http://bit.ly/marriage-assessment *Surviving in a Difficult Christian Marriage *The Emotionally Destructive Marriage by Leslie Vernick *my 3-month e-course, Marriage Methods (now PAY WHAT YOU CAN) https://bit.ly/marriage-methods-pwyc separated or divorced or single mom? *grab my book, Unraveling: Hanging Onto Faith Through the End of a Christian Marriage: bit.ly/UnravelingMarriage *Moving On as a Single Christian Mom *my 3-month e-course, Heartbreak to Hope (now PAY WHAT YOU CAN): https://bit.ly/Heartbreak-to-Hope-pwyc *Are You Ready to Date quiz: https://elisabethklein.com/partner-quiz/ *AlAnon: https://al-anon.org/ *DivorceCare: divorcecare.org *BetterHelp therapy (for 10% off your first month): betterhelp.com/allthattosay --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/elisabeth-klein/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/elisabeth-klein/support

Disclaimer: The content shared in this episode contains sensitive and potentially triggering topics related to domestic abuse and miscarriage. Listener discretion is advised. 1: The Beginning of the Destructive Marriage Ayana and her current husband met after both having experienced previous failed marriages. They initially appeared to be a perfect match with similar spiritual values, but things changed drastically after they got married. Ayana's husband started exhibiting controlling and verbally abusive behavior, and she couldn't understand where it was coming from. Friends and family were concerned about Ayana and tried to check on her, but they were unable to share their concerns before the wedding due to her husband's request for secrecy. 2: Unraveling the Truth Ayana gradually realized her husband had deep-seated issues and unresolved trauma from past relationships, which led to a hatred of women. He would use Scripture to condemn her instead of using it to support and guide her on her spiritual journey. Ayana's husband also struggled with financial control, withdrawing money during arguments and insisting on separate financial plans. 3: The Accusation After Miscarriage yana and her husband experienced a traumatic miscarriage after arguments and stress surrounding her previous husband's near-death experience. Heartbreakingly, Ayana's husband accused her of "murdering" their unborn children, causing immense pain and emotional distress. 4: A Mother's Struggle: The Desperate Cry for Safety Ayanna discusses hitting a breaking point in her marriage, facing abuse on every level, including physical, and her realization that she needed to seek help for the sake of her children. The traumatic incident with her ex-husband that led to a life-altering injury and its impact on Ayanna and her family. Ayanna's internal conflict and emotional turmoil when her current husband demanded her not to make physical contact with her ex-husband during a visit. Ayanna shares the intense emotional and physical abuse she endured during a heated argument with her current husband. The fear and helplessness she felt when he aggressively confronted her and the moment she realized she needed to escape for her own safety and the well-being of her children. Ayanna's internal struggle with the decision to leave and her faith-based approach to seeking guidance from God. 5: Finding Support and Strength Ayanna's discovery of Leslie Vernick's work and Conquer, which provided her with the language and understanding of emotional destructive marriages. The transformative power of being part of the Conquer community, where Ayanna found support, biblical guidance, and the encouragement she needed to build her safety plan and exit strategy. How prayer, surrendering to God, and surrounding herself with a supportive community empowered Ayanna to face the challenges ahead. 6: The Decision to Leave Ayanna's spiritual journey in seeking God's guidance in her decision to leave the abusive relationship. The pivotal moment at a prophetic event where Ayanna received a clear message from God, affirming her path towards healing and restoration. The importance of recognizing her worth as a child of God and setting boundaries to prioritize her safety and well-being. 7: Embracing Healing and Wholeness Ayanna's gradual transition towards healing and wholeness after filing for divorce and separating from her abuser. The importance of taking ownership of her emotions and focusing on self-improvement and self-love. Ayanna's current state, working full-time, and living with precautions in place while she prepares for a new chapter in her life.

Do you ever wonder if what's happening in your marriage might classify as abuse? Sometimes a husband is guilty. Sometimes a wife is. Why do you need to know? So you can get the right kind of help. Learn five red flags that are tell-tale signs of abuse. And meet two experts who can guide your learning curve. Buy the Happily Even After book by Dannah GreshCALL SOMEONE:If you feel you need help navigating abuse, call someone.ATTEND:Join us for a marriage weekend in the Dominican Republic with Pete KuiperLISTEN:Bob and Dannah talk with Charlynn Steinkamp on Fight for Your MarriageWATCH:Lysa Terkuerst & Leslie Vernick discuss “difficult & destructive marriages on Therapy & TheologyDannah talks with Diane Langberg on Revive Our Hearts' GroundedRECOMMENDED INTENSIVES FOR COUPLES & INDIVIDUALS:River Tree Center with Phil Herdnon (Tennessee) CrossRoads Counseling of the Rockies (Colorado)Faithful&True  (Minnesota)Alongsides Care (Michigan)Be Free (Various Locations)

Carrie is a brave woman who shares her story of being in a destructive marriage for 26 years and her journey towards healing and finding the strength to leave.   Early Signs Carrie grew up in Canada but moved to California after marrying her American husband. Her husband exhibited controlling behavior from the beginning of their marriage. It's not as great as it sounds Carrie explains complementarianism, a belief system prevalent in the evangelical church during the '70s and '80s. Complementarianism emphasizes the equal yet distinct roles of men and women within a marriage. The husband is considered the leader, while the wife is expected to be a supportive helpmate. Opening her eyes Carrie gradually realized that her marriage had more significant issues than typical marital problems. Her husband's control extended to decision-making, financial matters, and the personal growth of their daughters. As their daughters entered their teenage years and developed their own opinions, tensions escalated. The Complexity of Identifying Abuse: Carrie struggled to pinpoint the abuse in her marriage due to religious justifications and confusion. Her husband's manipulation of biblical authority and twisting of God's word caused further distress. Seeking Help and Facing Challenges: Carrie and her husband sought counseling from their church due to their daughter's severe anorexia. The church's approach blamed the daughter's behavior on her attempt to exert control, exacerbating the situation. Carrie's husband refused to acknowledge his role and his blame -shifting caused division among their children. Coming to Terms with the Destructive Marriage: Carrie discusses the difficulty of realizing the destructive nature of her marriage. The combination of religious teachings, guilt, and her husband's manipulation made it challenging to identify the abuse. Over time, she began to understand the impact on her children and the need to protect them. The Turning Point and Pursuit of Clarity: A conversation with Leslie Vernick helped Carrie gain clarity and recognize the abuse. Leslie's book, "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage," resonated with Carrie's experiences and offered practical strategies. Carrie describes how she gradually took a stand and made the heartbreaking decision to end the marriage. Coping with Devastation and Rediscovering Self-Worth: Carrie shares her emotions after her husband's cruel actions, such as calling the police on false grounds. The experience shattered her belief in her husband's support and led to a reevaluation of her understanding of God's love. She embarked on a journey of self-discovery, learning to prioritize her and her children's well-being. Empowered by Conquer: Carrie joined Leslie's coaching programs, including Walking in Core Strength and Empowered to Change. These programs provided her with valuable tools to communicate, set boundaries, and regain her sense of self-worth. Carrie highlights the importance of learning to ask non-confrontational questions and gaining clarity in difficult situations. A Path to Healing and Moving Forward: Carrie shares her transformation through Conquer, finding value and purpose beyond her destructive marriage. Despite the challenges she faced, she recognized her resilience and embarked on pursuing her dreams. She emphasizes the significance of understanding one's worth and focusing on personal growth. Resources: Visit www.leslievernick.com/start for a free Quick Start guide that provides clarity on whether your marriage is difficult, disappointing, or destructive.

Welcome to a special edition of Relationship Truth Unfiltered. In this episode, we have a very exciting invitation for all our podcast listeners. Leslie would like to invite you to join a transformative program called Moving Beyond People Pleasing. This program, starting this Monday, July 10th, is designed to help you learn to speak up for yourself and set healthy boundaries. Moving Beyond People Pleasing is a small group coaching program specifically tailored for Christian women. If you've ever felt like you've lost your voice due to betrayal, addiction, abuse, or any form of mistreatment, this program is for you. It's time to say "enough" and seek support and guidance to reclaim your power and find your voice again. In this program, you'll be part of a community of Christian women who are on the same journey towards setting healthy boundaries and living authentically. You'll learn to speak up for your core well-being in godly ways, honoring both God and yourself. No longer will you have to give more than you receive or settle for less than you deserve. Perhaps you fear conflict and struggle with having courageous conversations. Maybe you've been suppressing your opinions and needs, always putting others first. It's time to break free from the fear of disapproval and disappointment. It's time to step into your true identity and start living a life aligned with your values and desires. Moving Beyond People Pleasing is a six-week program that will meet on Zoom for 90 minutes each week. Led by a team of Leslie-Vernick-trained coaches, you'll receive expert guidance and support to help you navigate this transformative journey. The program is structured with engaging teaching videos by Leslie, handouts, and reflective exercises to deepen your learning experience. By joining this program, you'll also gain access to a secret Facebook page exclusively for participants of Moving Beyond People Pleasing. This private community provides a safe space to connect with the coaches, interact with other women on the same path, and receive ongoing support throughout the program. As a participant, you'll receive valuable resources, including an ebook written by Leslie Vernick herself. Her material is generously shared to enrich your learning and growth. Moving Beyond People Pleasing is rooted in biblical teachings, ensuring a faith-based approach to setting boundaries and speaking up for yourself. Don't miss this opportunity to invest in yourself and embark on a journey of self-discovery, empowerment, and growth. You deserve to live a life free from the shackles of people pleasing and in alignment with your true identity as a courageous woman of God. Resources: To join Moving Beyond People Pleasing: www.leslievernick.com/peoplepleasingcourse. As a special offer for our podcast listeners, use the code "podcast20" (all lowercase) to receive $20 off on the program. Act fast as spaces are limited and the program starts next Monday, July 10th. It's time to reclaim your voice, set healthy boundaries, and live a life filled with purpose, confidence, and joy. Don't let the fear of disapproval or past traumas hold you back any longer. Take the courageous step towards transformation and join the Moving Beyond People Pleasing program. May this program be the catalyst for positive change in your life, helping you build stronger relationships with God, yourself, and others. Sign up now and let your journey towards empowerment and authentic living begin.

In this powerful episode, join our host, Julie, as she engages in a heartfelt conversation with Katarina, a brave survivor who shares her personal journey of breaking free from an abusive marriage. Together, they explore the challenges Katarina faced, the transformative moments that led her to question her circumstances, and the profound impact of finding hope and healing in the midst of adversity. Episode Highlights: The Horrendous Years: Katarina opens up about her 30-year marriage, revealing that 15 of those years were filled with emotional and psychological abuse. She describes the impact of being in denial and the moment she realized she was trapped in a destructive relationship. Seeking Help: Learn about Katarina's courageous decision to seek counseling for addiction, which inadvertently led her to discover the concepts of codependency, enabling, and denial. She shares her experience of finding a specialized counselor who validated her experiences of abuse and introduced her to the work of Leslie Vernick. Eye-Opening Realizations: Katarina discusses the profound revelations that shattered her previous misconceptions about her marriage. From understanding the concept of emotional abuse in the Bible to recognizing the red flags of an unhealthy relationship, she shares the pivotal moments that opened her eyes to the truth. Overcoming Fear: Discover the immense fear and challenges Katarina faced when contemplating leaving her abusive husband. She talks about the resistance she encountered from both her husband and some members of her Christian community, highlighting the importance of receiving accurate biblical counsel and permission to prioritize safety and sanity over the institution of marriage. Parental Alienation: Katarina bravely shares the heart-wrenching experience of parental alienation, where her husband turned her children against her. She recounts the impact this had on her relationship with her children and the subsequent restoration and healing that occurred as they witnessed the truth about their father. Embracing a New Identity: Find inspiration in Katarina's transformation as she breaks free from the shackles of her past. She describes how she rediscovered her passions, particularly art, and embraced a new life filled with purpose and joy. Through her story, she encourages other women to pursue their own personal growth and to never lose hope in the face of adversity. Subscribe  Apple * Google * Spotify * Amazon * iHeart Other Resources If you think you might be in a destructive realtionship, go to www.leslievernick.com/start Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE)

Title: Relationship Truth Unfiltered: Addressing Domestic Violence in the Church Description: In this episode of Relationship Truth Unfiltered, host Leslie Vernick engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Pastor Dan, discussing the often overlooked issue of domestic violence within Christian marriages and the church. Together, they explore the challenges faced by pastors and church leaders in recognizing and addressing abuse, as well as the importance of equipping oneself with the necessary knowledge and tools to provide appropriate support. They emphasize the significance of understanding the power and control dynamics in abusive relationships, the need for accurate diagnosis and treatment plans, and the potential pitfalls of prioritizing institutional reputation over the safety and well-being of individuals. Pastor Dan also shares insights into his church's innovative approach of utilizing case managers to bridge the gap between families in crisis and community resources. The episode concludes with practical advice for individuals seeking to approach their pastors and create a safe space for discussing domestic violence within the church. Episode Highlights: The importance of recognizing and addressing domestic violence within Christian marriages and church settings. The role of the Power and Control Wheel in identifying signs of control and abuse. The challenges faced by pastors in acknowledging domestic violence and the need for equipping oneself to handle such situations. Differentiating between marriage issues and the underlying personal sin issues that contribute to abusive behavior. The potential harm caused by prioritizing institutional reputation over the safety and well-being of individuals. The significance of accurate diagnosis and appropriate treatment plans when addressing domestic violence. The Family Stress Support program: Using case managers as bridge builders between families in crisis and community resources. Approaching pastors with humility and concern, encouraging them to address the pain and seek support for victims of domestic violence. Balancing the values of truth and love in addressing domestic violence within the church. Don't miss this eye-opening episode of Relationship Truth Unfiltered, where Leslie Vernick and Pastor Dan shed light on the crucial issue of domestic violence and offer insights for individuals, pastors, and churches seeking to create a safe and supportive environment for those affected.  

Join us on this compelling episode as we dive into Connie's courageous journey of overcoming marriage struggles, finding healing, and experiencing personal growth. Through her candid and heartfelt story, Connie shares the challenges she faced in her marriage, including infidelity, unmet needs, and emotional disconnection. She opens up about her journey of self-discovery and the transformative impact of resources like the Conquer series and Leslie Vernick's teachings. Episode Highlights: Connie's upbringing and how it influenced her views on love and marriage. The breakdown of trust and emotional disconnection in her relationship. The impact of infidelity and its aftermath on Connie's mental and emotional well-being. Seeking help through therapy and the limitations of traditional counseling approaches. Understanding the power of taking ownership of one's feelings and healing journey. The importance of boundaries and self-care in maintaining personal well-being. Finding support and community through the Conquer program and connecting with like-minded individuals. Overcoming the urge to blame and focusing on personal growth instead. Embracing the idea that healing and change start with oneself, rather than trying to fix or change your partner. Learning to identify and address one's own needs and expectations within the relationship. The role of self-compassion and self-love in rebuilding trust and finding contentment. Whether you're facing similar struggles in your marriage or seeking personal growth and healing, Connie's story offers valuable insights and inspiration. Join us on this empowering episode to gain hope, discover resources, and find the strength to conquer your own challenges.

1 Corinthians 13 says, Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. Although relationships can be full of love, they can also be difficult and sometimes become unhealthy and emotionally destructive. On today's edition of Family Talk, Dr. Tim Clinton interviews Leslie Vernick, a licensed social worker and biblical counselor, to discuss the difficult topic of abusive marriages. According to Leslie, the Church needs to do a better job of not prioritizing the sanctity of marriage above the safety and the sanity of individuals in a marriage if abuse is present. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/707/29

1 Corinthians 13 says, Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. Although relationships can be full of love, they can also be difficult and sometimes become unhealthy and emotionally destructive. On today's edition of Family Talk, Dr. Tim Clinton interviews Leslie Vernick, a licensed social worker and biblical counselor, to discuss the difficult topic of abusive marriages. According to Leslie, the Church needs to do a better job of not prioritizing the sanctity of marriage above the safety and the sanity of individuals in a marriage if abuse is present. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/707/29

Welcome to a new series of Therapy & Theology: "When a Relationship Is Falling Apart."In this special episode, Lysa talks with her friend Leslie Vernick about the difference between difficult relationships, which we all have to navigate at times, and destructive relationships, which are damaging to our relational and emotional health and overall well-being.Related Resources:Some say time heals all wounds ... but what if that's not true? It's what we do with that time that moves us forward or not. In the pages of Lysa TerKeurst's new devotional, "You're Going to Make It: 50 Morning and Evening Devotions to Unrush Your Mind, Uncomplicate Your Heart, and Experience Healing Today," you will receive the biblical Truth and encouragement you need when hurtful situations leave you worn out and unmotivated to spend time with God. Order your copy today. Don't forget to download your Listener Guide! This guide will help you remember and apply what you have learned, with statements to cling to and scriptures to soak in. Links from Leslie Vernick:1. Free Quickstart Guide2. Free 5 Red Flags Guide3. "The Emotionally Destructive Marriage" by Leslie Vernick4. "The Emotionally Destructive Relationship" by Leslie VernickWe'd like to thank the American Association of Christian Counselors for partnering with us to sponsor Season 3 of Therapy & Theology. Click here to apply for their Mental Health Coach program where you'll be equipped to respond to friends walking through tough issues like depression, stress and anxiety, grief and loss, trauma, addictions and more.

“Good fences make good neighbors” is a line from Robert Frost's Mending Wall, but the poem goes on to say, “Before I built a wall I'd ask to know / What I was walling in or walling out”  So often in our lives we feel the unrest of chaos or dysfunction in our relationships, but we don't know exactly what we need to wall out or wall in. My guest this week, Lysa TerKeurst faced a new season of life and wanted to enter it with wisdom and strength - caring for others and herself in each of her relationships. Her personal journey led to her newest book, Good Boundaries and Goodbyes, a guide for each of us as we navigate relationships, practice setting healthy boundaries and even sometimes need to say goodbye.  Connect with Lysa TerKeurst:  Website:  https://lysaterkeurst.com  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/OfficialLysa  Instagram:  @lysaterkeurst  Links Mentioned:   Good Boundaries and Goodbyes : Loving Others Without Losing the Best of Who You Are by Lysa TerKeurst    Setting Healthy Boundaries with Family :: Dr. John Townsend [Ep 250] Leslie Vernick and Difficult v Destructive Relationships - https://leslievernick.com  Therapy and Theology Podcast  Related Episodes: Setting Healthy Boundaries with Family :: Dr. John Townsend [Ep 250] Forgiving What You Can't Forget :: Lysa TerKeurst [Ep 304] 5 Schedule Sappers and How to Stop Them :: Lysa TerKeurst [Ep 45] Uninvited :: Lysa TerKeurst, Kay Wyma and Courtney DeFeo [Ep 131] Featured Sponsors:  Find links to this week's sponsors and unique promo codes at dontmomalone.com/sponsors.