Let's Talk Wellness Now

What if the reason you’re not healing isn’t that you need another diagnosis? 0:08 It’s that your cells aren’t receiving the right signals. Because the body doesn’t run on diagnosis, it runs on 0:16 communication. And peptides are one of the most powerful, most misunderstood 0:21 tools we have for cellular signaling, immune balance, tissue repair, gut 0:27 lining support, metabolic control, brain signaling, sleep cycles, and even sexual 0:35 wellness. Today, I’m going to do what most people won’t. Define peptides in 0:41 plain English for you. break them into categories by what they’re best at and 0:47 tell you which ones are FDA approved on the list and which ones are commonly 0:53 used off label or investigational with the evidence that actually says these 1:00 work. This is going to be a powerful episode and if you’ve ever felt like you’re hearing hype without clarity, 1:07 this one’s for you. So, as usual, grab your cup of coffee or tea and settle in 1:13 as we talk about peptides that can fit into your healing journey. We’re going 1:19 to have a short word from our sponsor. You know, we got to do that. That’s how we stay on the air here. So, we will be 1:26 right back after this. Did you know sweating can literally heal your cells? 1:32I nfrared saunas don’t just relax you. They detox your body, balance hormones, 1:37 and boost mitochondrial energy. I’m obsessed with my health tech sauna. And 1:42 right now, you can save $500 with my code at healthtechalth.com/drmuthqen25. 1:54 All right, here we go, guys. I am excited to dive into peptides with you. 2:00 So understanding peptides is foundational, right? And I’ve been 2:06 studying peptides now for about nine years. Um, and I find that they are 2:13 incredible. Um, so I want to break down for you what peptides actually are, what 2:19 they do, and some of the top peptides that are available today, and how they 2:25 can be utilized. Because I think it’s really important. And I think it’s it’s there’s a lot of confusion out there about what these things actually are and 2:32 are they safe? Are they not? When do we use them? What’s the science behind them? So, we’re going to dive in and 2:38 we’re going to talk about all things peptides. So, let’s get ready here. Here we go. So, peptides are short chains of 2:45 amino acids and they typically range anywhere from 2 to 50 amino acids and 2:51 they’re linked by peptide bonds. So think of them as the superglue that holds the amino acids together. They sit 2:58 between the amino acids and they are full proteins in terms of their size and 3:04 their complex structure. And what makes peptides particularly interesting in 3:10 medicine is their role as signaling molecules. They’re essentially the 3:15 body’s text messages carrying specific instructions to cells and tissues. And 3:21 unlike our proteins which often serve as structural roles or act as enzymes, 3:28 peptides typically function as hormones, neurotransmitters and growth factors and 3:33 they bind to specific receptors on the cell’s surfaces or within the cells and 3:39 they trigger this effect. It’s like a cascade effect of a biochemical reaction 3:45 that ultimately changes the cellular behavior. So basically, it’s changing 3:50 the way the body’s cell structure acts. And this is why peptides can be so 3:56 incredibly powerful and therapeutic when you introduce the right peptide signal. 4:02 Now, you could theoretically redirect cellular processes toward healing, 4:07 towards metabolism, immune balance, tissue repair. Any of those things can 4:14 be manipulated to do a certain thing once we add the peptide. The challenge 4:19 in peptide medicine though lies in distinguishing between those peptides that have been rigorously studied, 4:26 proven safe and effective and approved by regulatory bodies like the FDA versus 4:31 those that exist in what we call the gray zone of a promising clinical data. 4:36 But they really lack human validation so far. And this distinction is critical because the presence of a plausible 4:43 mechanism does not guarantee safety or efficacy in living humans. So, this is 4:50 really important and we’re going to dive in and look at some of the research on all of these different peptides that are 4:56 available and I’m excited to say there’s some amazing peptides being studied right now that unfortunately are not 5:01 available. But I can’t wait to see them hit the market for us because it is going to be a gamecher as far as health 5:09 and longevity. So there is a quality control issue and there is a hidden 5:14 variable in peptide medicine with this and it’s one of the most underappreciated aspects of peptide 5:21 therapy particularly for non-FDA approved peptides. It’s quality control. 5:26 When we discuss pharmaceutical medicines, we take for granted that the pill contains what the label says. Not 5:32 always true depending on where it comes from. You guys, if you’ve heard my episodes before talk about how many of our medications are made in China and 5:41 have been contaminated with other things, you will realize that that is not always true. So, just because it has 5:48 the FDA stamp of approval on the medication, it still does not necessarily mean it’s safe and we still 5:54 need to do our homework on it. So, sorry for digressing on you guys, but you know, when we get a medication, we we 6:00 think that what the amount says is what is there, doesn’t have contaminants, it’s manufactured with good 6:06 manufacturing practices. You’ll see that listed as GMP on the bottle, and it’s been stored properly, it’s been 6:12 maintained stable, and with research peptides and compounded formulations, 6:17 none of this can be assumed. So, I will share a story with you. There was a gentleman that was purchasing these 6:24 peptides online from a research facility and um did not know that they were 6:30 coming from China and he was ordering a particular growth hormone peptide and 6:35 after a little while he had he had done fine for the few first few bottles. After a little while he started having 6:42 some complications. He started getting really irritable and angry and ragy and 6:47 he didn’t quite know what was going on. And so he decided to go get some testing done. He had some blood testing done and 6:53 his testosterone level was over 5,000. So for those of you who know what testosterone level should be for a guy, 7:00 they really shouldn’t be any higher than about 1,00200 would be absolute max that we’d want to see. Now he was taking 7:06 testosterone but not to that degree. And prior to adding this peptide, his 7:12 testosterone was very stable. What they ended up finding out was the peptide that he was getting, whoever was 7:18 manufacturing it added testosterone to the peptide. They felt like if if it had growth hormone, that was great, but if 7:25 it had growth hormone and tes testosterone, all the better. And he didn’t know that. And this is the 7:31 problem that we can have with peptides if you don’t source them properly. if you’re not working with somebody that 7:37 knows how to source them and can prove that they are what they say they are. Um, I’m sure there’s a whole bunch of 7:42 studies out there too of people getting these peptides and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for them over their 7:48 lifetime and finding out they were nothing more than just sterile water. So, you really do need to be careful 7:53 with your quality control. Now, this kind of leads us right into the next topic that we’re going to talk about and that’s the manufacturing question, 8:00 right? The FDA approved peptides are manufactured in facilities subject to 8:05 the FDA inspection rules following our GMP regulations and these facilities 8:11 must validate their manufacturing process, demonstrate consistency batch to batch, test for purity and potency. 8:18 They need to test for bacterial endotoxins and sterility and they need to maintain detailed records. So, when a 8:25 pharmaceutical company submits a drug application, the FDA inspects the manufacturing facility as part of the 8:32 approval process. If you’re getting peptides from a different country, none of that is happening. And there are some 8:38 ways for us to determine if that is what you’re getting. Typically, the rule of thumb is if your peptides are coming 8:44 with a different colored top, every one of them has a different colored top. Those are typically being sourced out of 8:49 China. I wouldn’t say that’s 100% but that’s kind of the rule of thumb that people follow. So compoundingies these 8:56 are thearmacies that make our bio identical hormones. They can make medications in any dose or strength or 9:02 route. There are thousands of them in every not that not in every state but 9:08 there are thousands of them around the country right now. So these compoundingies are registered as 503A 9:15 facilities. They do traditional compounding for individual prescriptions, right? Like they can make 9:20 thyroid, they can make LDN, they can make estrogen. You can also have a 503b 9:27 facility, which is an outsourcing facility. And these companies produce larger batches of products. They’re they 9:34 have some oversight, but they’re less stringent than for FDA approved 9:40 manufacturers. And state boards of pharmacy regulate a 503A pharmacy. And 9:45 the FDA can inspect the 503b facility, but doesn’t preapprove any of their 9:52 compounding products. So, they can inspect it, but they don’t approve them. So, research chemicals and these 9:58 suppliers operate essentially with no oversight. They explicitly market products for research use only, not for 10:06 human consumption to avoid FDA regulation. If they put that on their 10:12 product, they don’t have to comply to what the FDA is saying. And there is no required manufacturing strategies or 10:19 standards, no required testing, no required sterility assurance, and no enforcement mechanisms if products are 10:26 mislabeled or contaminated. So basically, they don’t have the liability, but that doesn’t mean that 10:31 all of them are badies or bad suppliers. It just means they don’t have to comply 10:37 to the FDA rules. Now, there are many of these companies that I’ve seen and I’ve talked to that do do a lot of this. They 10:44 do test their product for sterility. They do test their product to make sure it is what it says it is. They don’t 10:51 have to, but they do. So, if you’re going to decide to use a company that 10:56 has research only, not for human consumption, at least ask for their 11:02 proof of testing so that you know that the product you’re getting is what it says it is and that it’s clean. Because 11:08 this is where we run into the problem is in purity. So in purity peptide 11:13 synthesis can produce not just the targeted peptide but also related 11:19 peptides with deletions, substitutions, truncations or truncations of amino 11:25 acids. Sorry. And this high performance liquid we call it uh chromatography can 11:30 separate these related impurities and quality and quantify the actual target 11:35 of the peptide content. So a certificate of analysis is what you want to ask these companies for. This shows the HPLC 11:44 the testing mechanism with greater than 95% or ideally 98% purity which 11:51 indicates a higher quality product. So this certificate of analysis can be fabricated may not represent the 11:57 specific batch being sold. It happens. We need to know not everybody is honest. Not everybody, you know, does what they 12:03 say and it does what’s right. But at least you at least they’re giving you something and you have some security. 12:10 and then choose a company that was referred to by someone else that has done some homework as well. In in 12:16 commercial research, there’s independent testing and they research peptides and this has been really shocking 12:23 variability that they’ve seen. Some products contain 50% or less of the 12:29 claimed peptide and some contained primarily degradation of the product or manufacturing impurities and some 12:36 contained bacterial endotoxins at levels that could cause fever and systemic 12:42 inflammation if it was truly injected. And I would also worry with some of those problems, you know, depending on 12:48 what impurity or bacterial endotoxin was there. If you’re using a product to boost your immune system and your immune 12:54 system is already compromised, these bacterial endotoxins can actually make you sicker instead of what you want it 13:02 to do, which is making you better. So, sterility is always an issue with anything that is manufactured, 13:08 especially things that we’re doing as an injection. Peptides are intended for injection. They must be sterile. They 13:16 must be kept safe. And pharmaceutical manufacturers conduct this sterility testing on every batch. 13:22 Compoundingarmacies should conduct sterility testing particularly for high-risisk compounded 13:28 sterile preparations and research chemical suppliers may or may not conduct any testing. So injecting 13:35 non-sterile material can cause local infections, abscesses at the injection 13:41 site and or if the bacteria enters the bloodstream could potentially be 13:46 life-threatening and you could have sepsis. Now, excuse me. We saw this 13:52 happen in a compounding pharmacy uh gosh, it’s probably been 10 years ago 13:57 now, I think. um they unfortunately had a strep uh contamination in their 14:03 product and they weren’t testing it. It was a large compounding pharmacy out of Florida and they were making products 14:08 that were being injected into the joints and um these people got very very sick 14:14 and some of them died and um some of them got very very injured by this uh 14:21 complication that happened. So it’s not like this doesn’t happen. It does, but it doesn’t happen often. And that’s what 14:28 we have to know about. And so, when we’re talking with you guys about storage and stability, it’s really 14:34 important to make sure you maintain your peptides well. So, many peptides are unstable at room temperature. They 14:41 require refrigeration or freezing. We tell everyone to make sure you’re refrigerating your peptides. That way, 14:48 there’s no question about it. when it stays cold um it prevents or slows down 14:54 the process of uh bacteria growing in it. So some of these peptides actually 14:59 degrade very rapidly in the solution and they must be reconstituted immediately before use and reconstitution of the 15:07 peptides really has limited stability often just days to weeks not months. So 15:13 improper storage, temperature, um changes during shipping or prolonged 15:19 storage of a reconstituted product can lead to degradation into inactivity or 15:25 potentially even a harmful breakdown of the product itself. So if you have a product that’s been sitting in your 15:30 refrigerator for a month or two months or 3 months or 6 months, just throw it away. It’s not going to be any good. 15:37 you’re not going to actually get the peptide and the uh potency that you’re looking for anyway out of it and the 15:44 potential of you introducing an endotoxin, a bacterial endotoxin is quite high at that point. So you just 15:50 really don’t want to take the risk, excuse me. So what practitioners, what 15:56 should we do and what should patients do? Well, for any peptide therapy, we 16:03 want to source our verification. know where the peptide product comes from. Is 16:08 it an FDA approved product? Is it a 503b compounding? A research chemical 16:14 supplier? Is there a certificate of analysis? Request and review this COA. 16:20 And you want it to show purity greater than 95% but ideally greater than 98%. 16:27 You want that identity be identity to be confirmed by mass spectromedy. Uh 16:33 sterility testing should be done. Bacterial endotoxin testing should be done. Batch number matching of the 16:39 product that you received should be done. Proper storage. You want to know that this has been refrigerated or 16:46 frozen as directed once it’s been mixed. Look at the expiration dates for reconstituting your peptides. Track that 16:53 reconstitution date and discarded accordingly like we just talked about. Monitor for your adverse effects. Even 17:01 with the perfect quality control, monitoring for adverse effects is essential with questionable quality and 17:08 vigilance is really critical here. I know it’s frustrating for a lot of patients when they have to get several 17:15 bottles and they only last a week or two. right here, you guys. This is why 17:21 they only last a short period of time because once they’re mixed, they start 17:26 to degrade and they won’t be good and you won’t get the benefit from it. So, 17:31 it’s really important with these research peptides specifically, practitioners should recognize that all 17:38 recommending products without quality assurance violates the fundamental medical principle of first do no harm. 17:45 If a patient is determined to use research peptides despite counseling, providing guidance on quality 17:52 verification, requesting those COAs, using pharmaceutical grade sources when available, proper testing, this all 17:59 reduces harm, but doesn’t constitute necessarily that recommendation. Now, 18:06 that being said, today it’s very difficult to find peptides by the compoundingies because of what the FDA 18:13 has done. So most of the peptides that are available to us have been labeled 18:18 not for human consumption, not because they’re not good products, but because 18:25 of what the FDA did. And this is how these companies have been able to 18:31 continue to provide peptides to the medical community. And if you know you 18:36 have a good company, then you’re, you know, you’re still taking the risk, right? But at the end of the day, the 18:42 reason they’re doing that is to protect themselves from the FDA, from liability. Um, so just kind of know that there is 18:50 some talk in the community with um Bobby Kennedy that this is going to change and 18:55 they are going to bring peptides back to the compounding pharmacies. Now, we don’t know which ones they’re going to 19:01 bring back. Uh, will it be all of them? Will it just be some of them? What’s going to happen here? Um, is it going to 19:07 go to the pharmaceutical companies like our GLP1s did? We don’t know what that’s going to look like quite yet. Um, but it 19:14 is coming and that is positive news. So, let’s talk now about FDA approved 19:21 peptide medications. So, this is the metabolic revolution, right? GLP1 19:28 and our dual increeting agonists. This is an exciting time. GLP-1s are amazing. 19:35 Um, a lot of people are skeptical, a lot of people love them, a lot of people hate them. Whichever side of the fence 19:42 that you’re on, I understand. But I want to talk about the science of it today 19:48 and what it actually means for people. So, the story of GLP1 glucagon like 19:54 peptide one represents one of the most significant advances in metabolic 19:59 medicine in the past several decades. GLP-1 is an accretin hormone. It’s 20:05 gutder derived peptide that potentiates insulin secretion in response to food 20:11 intake. And the body naturally produces GLP-1 in the intestinal L cells, but it 20:17 rapidly degraded by the enzyme DPP4 giving it a halflife of only about 2 20:24 minutes. So this rapid breakdown made in therapeutically impractical until 20:31 research was developed and modified the analoges that resist the enzyme degradation. So for those people who 20:39 never feel full when they’re eating, never feel satisfied when they’re done, this is because their body is either not 20:46 producing enough GLP1 or it’s not getting the signal right. And this is a 20:51 leptin issue. This is an insulin issue. It’s a GLP-1 issue. It’s a complicated 20:56 issue. This is not anything that the person is doing wrong. It’s what is happening to their body. And so GLP1s 21:03 have really revolutionized this. So one particular GLP-1 that we have is 21:09 semiglutide. And this GLP-1 agonist is what changed everything in the world of 21:16 metabolic medicine. Semiglutide is marketed as ompic for type 2 diabetes 21:23 and it’s marketed as WGOI for chronic weight management. It is a modified 21:29 GLP-1 analog with 95 or sorry 94% amino acid sequence uh homology to human 21:37 GLP-1. So it means that it’s it’s just like our own GLP-1 that we make. This 21:42 modification includes specific amino acid substitutions and the addition of C18 21:50 a fatty acid chain which allows the peptide to bind to albumin. Now this 21:56 albumin binding dramatically extends the half-life to approximately one week 22:01 enabling one weekly dosing which is a major advantage over the earlier GLP-1 22:07 agonists that require daily or twice daily injections. The mechanism by which 22:13 semiglutide works is multiaceted. At the pancreatin level, it binds to GLP-1 22:20 receptors on the pancreatic beta cells enhancing glucose depending sorry 22:27 enhancing glucose dependent insulin secretion. This glucose dependency is 22:33 crucial. It means the peptide only stimulates insulin release when blood glucose is elevated. This dramatically 22:41 reduces the hypoglycemic risk compared to insulin or even uh sulfuras. 22:47 Simultaneously semiglutide suppresses glucagon secretion from pancreatic alpha 22:53 cells further improving glycemic control. This is really amazing because 23:00 over the years when we’ve used insulin, which is also a peptide by the way, you 23:05 had to dose it just right because if you didn’t, you would produce so much insulin that it would crash the blood 23:12 sugar and then somebody would have too low of a blood sugar. They’d be hypoglycemic and they’d have to eat more 23:18 sugar and then they’d have to modify the insulin again and the person would be going up and down, up and down, up and 23:24 down all day long. And that created a lot of problems for people and so this 23:30 helps to stabilize that so it is not such an intense change. Now in the GI 23:36 tract semiglutide delays the gastric emptying particularly pronounced during 23:41 the initial weeks of therapy. This slowing of the gastric emptying contributes to the sensation of being 23:48 full and early satiety that patients often describe. However, this effect 23:54 tends to attend to weight over time as the body adapts through the appetite 24:00 suppressing effects generally persist through central mechanisms. So, when we 24:05 talk about what is actually happening, we’re slowing that digestive process down. That’s why people aren’t so 24:11 hungry. It’s why they’re not eating so much. This is why people can develop constipation with these products because 24:17 it’s slowing the body’s digestive tract down. Now some people will call this 24:22 gastroparesis. Um gastroparesis is actually different. 24:28 It is when we lose control over what’s happening in the in the colon like the 24:34 nerves and things like that just stop working. I have never seen that with the GLP1s that we prescribe in micro doing. 24:42 um it’s been documented. It can happen, but again it a lot of it is dosing and a 24:48 lot of it is staying on top of your client and what’s happening and what’s going on and what you’re doing and making sure that they do have good 24:54 motility still. So a lot of these things can be mitigated if you have problems 24:59 with them. Now one of the most profound effects of semiglutide occur in the 25:05 central nervous system. GLP-1 receptors are widely distributed in the brain 25:10 particularly in the hypothalamus and the brain stem area where we are involved in 25:15 appetite regulation. So when when wilding and colleagues published their 25:20 landmark step one trial in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2021, 25:25 they demonstrated that participants receiving 2.4 4 milligrams of semiglutide weekly achieved an average 25:32 weight loss of 14.9% of their body weight over 68 weeks. Now, I want you 25:39 guys to really understand this. We’re talking roughly 15% body weight loss 25:45 over a year, longer than a year. 52 weeks is a year, right? This is 68 25:50 weeks. So, it took longer for them to lose. We’re not talking about giving 25:55 somebody a dose to lose 15% of their body mass in a month or two. That that 26:01 is not healthy for any of us. That is not what we’re talking about doing here. Now, they compared this to placebo and 26:08 the placebo was only 2.4%. So, that is a significant difference. 26:14 And even beyond the numbers, patients reported something very qualitatively different, a reduction in what’s now 26:21 called food noise. Everybody knows what food noise is. We’ve talked about this long before GLP1. It’s that craving. 26:28 It’s that part of your brain that just keeps thinking about I want to eat something. You know, that was actually 26:34 reduced and they didn’t expect to see that happen. Now, this refers to the constant mental preoccupation with food, 26:42 the intrusive thoughts about eating, the difficulty in feeling satisfied. Semi-glutide appears to appears to 26:49 modulate reward pathways in the misolyic system reducing hedonic eating and food 26:57 cravings. Now there are also great cardiovascular effects of semiglutide 27:02 that extend beyond weight loss. Uh the sustained six and select trials 27:07 demonstrated significant reductions in major adverse cardiovascular events uh 27:14 mace in high-risisk populations. The select trial published in 2023 showed 27:20 that semiglutide reduced cardiovascular death, non-fatal myioardial inffection 27:25 and non-fatal stroke by 20% in adults with overweight or obesity and 27:31 established cardiovascular disease but without diabetes. So this suggests that 27:37 mechanisms beyond glucose control and weight loss possibly including 27:42 anti-inflammatory effects, improvements in endothelial function and favorable 27:47 changes to lipid profiles. Now I will tell you the clients that I work with that are on GLP1, 27:53 they will tell you that their inflammation has been significantly reduced. We are also seeing really 28:00 amazing results in lipid profiles. um part of its weight loss, but there is a 28:06 component to this that is lowering the triglyceride levels because it’s related to sugar and how the body’s processing 28:11 it. And we’re seeing better profiles, less need for statins as a result of 28:17 that. If if you want to listen to my episode on statins, I have one on that. Uh they are not my favorite medication. 28:24 I think it’s overprescribed and overused um and not really affecting or 28:29 addressing the problem. So these things can really be helpful. There’s also some 28:34 uh ramblings going on with GLP-1s saying that they may be able to help with 28:40 addiction in the future because of where they’re finding it affecting the brain and how it affects the food noise and 28:47 the cravings that we have for food and the addiction for food. Could it potentially help with other addictions 28:53 down the road? We’ll have to wait and see on that one. So semiglutide’s FDA prescribing information also includes a 29:00 box uh boxed warning about thyroid sea cell tumors. So in rodent studies 29:06 semiglutide caused dose dependent and treatment duration dependent sea cell 29:12 tumors at clinically relevant exposures. So while it’s unknown whether or not 29:17 semiglutide causes uh thyroid cancer tumors in humans and the rodent thyroid biology 29:26 differs significantly from humans, the drug is contraindicated in patients with a personal or family history of 29:33 medillary thyroid carcinoma or in patients with multiple endocrine neopl neoplasia syndrome type two. it is 29:42 uh contraindicated for safety effects with that. Um I have seen endocrinologists okay GLP1s to be used 29:50 in patients who’ve had other forms of thyroid cancer just not the meillary 29:55 thyroid cancer. So there is possibility there. Now the most common side effects 30:00 are gastrointestinal. It’s nausea affects about 20 to 44% of patients 30:06 depending on the formulation with diarrhea, vomiting, constipation, abdominal pain, and also frequently 30:13 reported in clinical trials. I see this in my clinic, too, especially dose dependent. Um, and it happens early on 30:20 when you’re first starting the medication, but seems to settle out over time. The one that I would add to this 30:26 that I don’t think they have on here is an increase in acid reflux. We also see that quite often uh especially in people 30:33 who suffer with acid reflux to begin with. Now these effects are typically most 30:40 pronounced during the escalation and they like I said often improve over time 30:45 but more serious but less common adverse effects include acute pancreatitis. 30:51 The medication needs to be discontinued immediately if this is confirmed. You can see some diabetic retinopathy 30:57 complications in patients with pre-existing retinopathy and acute kidney injury. Um, this usually happens 31:05 secondarily to dehydration from the GI effects. There are some gallbladder disease um that can occur and people who 31:13 have a sensitive gallbladder will describe uh discomfort with that. I’ve 31:18 even seen some people who’ve had their gallbladder out on GLP1s at the higher doses complain of similar pain that they 31:25 used to have when their gallbladder was in. So, really important to just kind of monitor these symptoms and work closely 31:32 with somebody that understands them and can be on top of them quite quickly if this happens. Excuse me. From an 31:39 integrative medicine perspective, semiglutide really represents a powerful tool, but it’s not a standalone 31:46 solution. Remember, the medication addresses one aspect of the metabolic dysfunction, the signaling systems 31:53 controlling appetite and glucose homeostasis, but it doesn’t address the root cause that led to the metabolic 32:00 disease in the first place. Patients who rely solely on the medication without addressing the ultrarocessed food 32:07 consumption, the ccadian disruptions, the chronic stress, the sleep apnea, or 32:12 underlying hormonal imbalances often experience weight regain when the medication is discontinued. 32:20 The drug is also not a substitute for addressing the emotional and psychological drivers of eating 32:26 behavior, including the unresolved trauma that may manifest as emotional eating. I think this is really important 32:33 because we don’t address the trauma issue enough with clients and we need to 32:38 be looking at that. There is a huge trauma effect out there these days that is I don’t want to say leading to or 32:45 causing but it is definitely contributing to chronic illness and it’s not being talked about enough. So we 32:52 really need to be talking about this and addressing this trauma aspect. Now the next GLP that one that I want to talk 32:59 about is trespathide. This is a dual agonist. It takes center stage. It is my 33:05 favorite GLP one. Trisepatide is marketed as Mangjaro for type 2 diabetes 33:11 and Zepbound for chronic weight management and it represents the next 33:16 evolution in increantbased therapy. This is a dual agonist a 39 amino acid 33:23 synthetic peptide structurally based on the human glucose dependent insulin tropic peptide so GIP sequence but 33:31 modified to activate both the GIP receptors and the GLP1 receptors. So the 33:37 addition of the GI GIP agonism to the GLP1 agonism appears to create this 33:46 synergistic effect that goes beyond simply adding the two mechanisms together. So the GIP like GLP-1 is an 33:55 increant hormone secreted by what is called the K cells in response to nutrient intake. It enhances glucose 34:02 dependent insulin secretion but it also effects on atapost tissue metabolism 34:09 potentially improving the insulin sensitivity in fat cells and influencing 34:14 how the body stores and metabolizes fat. So some research suggests that GIP may 34:20 also have effects on energy expenditure though this remains an area of 34:26 investigation. So basically what we’re saying is this drug may actually help 34:32 people who are insulin resistant or insulin sensitive, not just somebody who 34:38 has problems with glucose control. So, this is super exciting because it opens 34:43 up the door for all of these people for decades that we’ve been trying to manage with insulin resistance and trying to 34:50 prevent diabetes and honestly most of the time have been unsuccessful 34:56 unless you can keep your diet at 50 grams of carbs or less a day, which is extremely difficult. Um, and take some 35:04 supplements that may or may not work and or take some metformin that may or may not help. this drug actually really 35:11opens that up and helps in that capacity. So there was a clinical trial 35:17 called the surmount clinical trial which demonstrated that trespathide produces 35:22 even more substantial weight loss than semiglutide. In the surerount one trial published by uh J tree I might have said 35:31 that wrong. I apologize if I slaughtered your name and colleagues in the New York England Journal of Medicine in 2022. 35:38 Participants receiving the highest dose of trespide, which is 15 milligrams, achieved an average weight loss of 20.9% 35:47 of their body weight over 72 weeks, compared to 3.1% with placebo. This 35:54 level of weight loss approaches what’s typically only seen in beriatric surgery. So, this is amazing because if 36:02 this medication works and we don’t have to do beriatric surgery, stomach stapling basically, um, oh my gosh, it’s 36:11 amazing. There are so many complications and risks that go with stomach stapling and the different procedures that they 36:17 do these days. People don’t absorb their nutrients properly. They have to do liquid nutrients. It’s very complicated. 36:24 It’s very challenging. Many of these people gain their weight back. Um, and 36:30 this procedure is not fun to go through. So, if we could change that and change 36:35 the lives of people who’ve really been struggling, it is amazing. And I will tell you that I have seen this work. I 36:42 have seen people lose 100 150 pounds on these medications over a year or two 36:50 period of time. It is definitely slower than beriatric surgery on some standpoints, but that is okay. You don’t 36:56 want that rapid weight loss. It’s not good for you. It’s not healthy for you. It doesn’t look well. You know, we want 37:03 to do this safely and effectively in the best way that we can possibly do that for you. Now, the adverse effect profile 37:10 is similar to semiglutide. It’s dominated by gastrointestinal effects. 37:15 Nausea, diarrhea, decreased appetite, vomiting, constipation. These were all commonly reported in the surmount 37:22 trials. And like semiglutide, tricepide carries a blackbox warning regarding the 37:27 thyroid sea cell tumors based on the rodent data and it shares the same contra indications in patients with a 37:34 family history of thyroid cancer and men too. So the mechanism behind why 37:40 tepatide often produces more substantial weight loss than GLP-1. The agonism 37:45 alone remains under investigation, but it may relate to the complimentary effects on the different aspects of 37:51 energy homeostasis or to GIP’s effects on atapost tissue and potentially on 37:58 central central nervous system pathways that GLP1 alone doesn’t fully address. 38:03 Now patients often report even more profound reductions in food noise with tricepide compared to GLP1 and uh sorry 38:12 GLP1 the agonists through this is anecdotal and hasn’t been regularly 38:17 quantified in quality studies. So I’ve done both uh personally and in my 38:22 practice. I really like trespide better than semiglutide. For me I had too many side effects with semiglutide. uh I had 38:30 less side effects with trespathide. I also plateaued on semiglutide which I 38:35 didn’t really care for. And with Tresepide, I haven’t plateaued and I’ve been able 38:42 to lose about 25 pounds in um a year and a half and I’ve been able to maintain 38:49 that. Um and I continued to use it because I do have a strong family history of cardiovascular disease. And 38:56 if this could help me so that I don’t follow my family lineage with cardiovascular disease, I am all for 39:03 trying to do that. I’ve watched too many of my family members suffer from this. I’ve lost my dad at a very young age. I 39:09 lost my grandfather at a young age to it. All of their brothers to this. And I don’t want to be that same person. So 39:16 that is why I chose to do that. And I think it’s really important for us to take a look at that and understand that. 39:24 Now, I know this has been a really long podcast and I don’t typically do podcasts this long. I have a whole host 39:31 of information on additional peptides. So, I’m going to break this up for you 39:36 guys and I’m going to do another episode and we’re going to pick up where we left off here with these peptides so that we 39:43 can actually start to dive into different peptides as well. So, check 39:48 out my next podcast show when we’re going to dive into the peptides that 39:54 talk about sexual wellness, immune function, and all the other cool things 39:59 that we can do with peptides. So until then, remember to like, share, and 40:04 subscribe. It really helps us get out to other people and share our information, 40:10 and join us for our next episode as we continue the talk about peptides. 40:15 Welcome to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, where we bring expert insights directly to you. Please note that the views and 40:21 information shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Let’s Talk Wellness Now, its 40:28 management, or our partners. Each affiliate, sponsor, and partner is an 40:34 independent entity with its own perspectives. Today’s content is provided forformational and educational 40:40 purposes only and should not be considered specific advice, whether financial, medical, or legal. While we 40:48 strive to present accurate and useful information, we cannot guarantee its completeness or relevance to your unique 40:56 circumstances. We encourage you to consult with a qualified professional to address your 41:01 individual needs. Your use of information from this broadcast is entirely at your own risk. By continuing 41:08 to listen, you agree to indemnify and hold Let’s Talk Wellness Now and its 41:14 associates harmless from any claims or damages arising from the use of this 41:20 content. We may update this disclaimer at any time and changes will take effect 41:26 immediately upon posting or broadcast. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you 41:31 find this episode both insightful and thought-provoking. Listener discretion 41:36 is advised.The post Episode 256 – How Peptides Work, Benefits, and FDA-Approved vs Off-Label Use Explained first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb Muth 0:03Welcome back to let’s Talk Wellness. Now, I’m your host, Dr. Deb. If you’re a woman who’s doing everything right, eating clean, exercising, taking supplements, yet you still feel exhausted, inflamed, or like your body suddenly stopped cooperating, this episode is for you. Today’s conversation challenges one of the biggest myths in women’s health. That midlife struggles are just about hormones or worse, just part of aging. My guest today is Dr. Deb Heald, a naturopathic physician with one of the most fascinating backgrounds I’ve ever encountered. Yeah, she’s got a really diverse background, which is kind of exciting. She’s been an ER nurse, a stockbroker, a Silicon Valley data analysis, teaching machines to learn from microbiome research. And yes, she holds an mba, too. But it was her own menopause crash that changed everything. When the protocols she had been teaching stopped working for her, her, she didn’t double down on templates or trends. She did what she was trained to do. She followed the data and what she discovered reframed menopause, metabolism and women’s longevity in a completely different way. This isn’t about willpower. It’s not about another diet, and it’s definitely not about copying what worked for someone else. It’s about learning to listen to your body and finally understanding what it’s been trying to tell you and all along. So grab your cup of coffee or tea, settle in, and let’s dive into this amazing conversation about women’s health and menopause. And right after our guest is arriving with us, we’re going to get a word from our sponsor quick here. And then we are going to come right back to having this conversation with Dr. Deb Heald. Ladies, it’s time to reignite your vitality. Primal Queen supplements are clean, powerful formulas made for women like you who want balance, strength, and energy that lasts. Get 25% off@primal queen.com Serenity Health. Because every queen deserves to feel in her prime. But okay. All right. Welcome back, everybody. I am here with my new friend, Dr. Deb Heald. And she has such an amazing background, like I shared with you a few minutes ago. But I would love for her to give us her insight in how she got where she did, because it’s rare that you find somebody with a data background and a medical background. So, Dr. Dove, welcome. Dr Deb Heald 2:30Thank you. I am so glad to be here, and it’s a real privilege to meet you. Dr. Deb Muth 2:34I feel the same way. Dr Deb Heald 2:35Yeah, it’s. I think that the more of us that start to think and practice this way, the easier it’s going to be for women going forward. Because it’s not easy. Dr. Deb Muth 2:44It is not easy. I mean, I’ve been in this industry a long time, over 25 years. And every time I think it’s getting easy, it’s getting harder for a variety of reasons. It’s the medical system, it’s the. The clients we work with are sicker. It’s taking longer to get them to a place where they feel good. There’s just so many variables these days. So tell me a little bit about what got you here. Dr Deb Heald 3:06Well, I made the decision when I was graduating from high school to be a nurse instead of a teacher, because those were really still the two options that were common for women. I thought about medicine at that point, but my sister convinced me that if I would spend all that time learning and practicing medicine, I might not be as good of a mom. So I took the path of nurse, because nurse works around kids schedules and that sort of thing. I’d only been practicing about six months before I thought, oh my gosh, there has to be more to it than this, and toyed with the idea of starting med school at that point, but then married and started having children, and I just sort of fell into that pattern. But I typically work emergency room. There was a short stent in the post anesthesia recovery room as well. And emergency room was a place where western medicine actually shone. Right. People come in, they are no longer capable of functioning, they’re having a heart attack, they lost limb. Whatever else, they do need the, the bells and the whistles of western medicine. But when you think about it, western medicine was derived out of the Civil War where you didn’t have to say what’s the cause of the problem. It was a bullet or a bayonet, and it was, it was about patching up the soldiers and getting them back on the front line so they could continue to fight. And naturopathic medicine, which had been a lot around for an awful lot longer than that, just didn’t work in the battlefield then. The assessment was done in the early 1900s as to which style of medicine got people back to work faster. The Flexner report was all about how corporations could maximize the value of employees. And naturopathic medicine didn’t win because nutritional fixes take a long time. Taking away somebody’s stress so that they can just function more capably is. It’s a, It’s a big ask, right? So the funding of naturopathic medicine went away and western medicine became all that we knew. So in context to the emergency room, it worked. But when I saw the same person coming in, having their third heart attack, I just thought, how is this happening? Has no one told this person what, what’s going on in their lifestyle that’s creating this environment for them to continue to have heart attacks? And so that’s when I made the switch. And that was after 17 years in practice as a nurse to head on over to the naturopathic side. There was a little bit of a, a segue there, but we’d need a much longer interview to get into the details of that. I was a stock broker for six years. Anyway, when I jumped into the idea of med school, it didn’t make sense to be practicing the same thing that was already being practiced because I saw where it worked and I saw where it was failing. So hopped into the naturopathic tract. I also had one child that had a lot of physical and emotional ailments that western medicine couldn’t solve. Their answer to everything was putting her on amoxicillin. And I, I just absolutely could not convince the medical system that she didn’t have a deficiency of antibiotics, but that was their only solution. And so while she was on the antibiotics, her sinuses were clear, her sleep apnea was not an issue, and she appeared better, but her microbiome got decimated. She was on antibiotics for seven years. So, yeah, so my pursuit down the naturopathic pathway was in large part to try and figure out what else could be done for my daughter. And I did take her to a naturopath or I embarked on the field myself. And her GP threatened to call social services. Oh my gosh, yes. Dr. Deb Muth 6:22You hear these stories, I’ve heard these stories from clients before over really dumb things that they’re going to call CPS for. And it always blows my mind that we think it’s appropriate to call CPS on somebody who’s truly not injuring their child. Dr Deb Heald 6:38So anyway, that started my 17 year path in the naturopathic realm. And after, after I’ve been in practice about 10 years, an opportunity came up to move to Silicon Valley and research the microbiome and then take what we were learning from the microbiome and program it into AI. So I did that for a few years and it was amazing. There was a huge disconnect between the funding model and what its expectations were and what the research was able to do. There was a time gap, there was a funding gap. And so I thought, medicine doesn’t understand what’s important to business. And Business isn’t understanding what’s critical to research. So I went and did my MBA and wanted to be able to be the translator between those two worlds. And then the pandemic hit and then. Dr. Deb Muth 7:24Everyone’S life got turned upside down, right? Dr Deb Heald 7:26Yeah. Yeah. So I’m back in private practice. My, my practice always tended to be more autoimmune focused, which is predominantly women and predominantly middle aged women. But through my own experience of menopause and looking at how I assisted people that were in menopause before I was, you know, that the success rate wasn’t as high as it needed to be. And I started to really drill down into the biochemistry behind what was going on and then also realized that my menopause was very different than even my sister’s menopause. There we were, the same genetic template, the same lived environment, though very different lived experiences in that environment. And realized that we have to find ways to make it relevant to the person in front of us. And it’s not so much which herbs will or won’t work historically, it’s how is this person’s body responding in the immediate term to the diet we’ve put them on, to the nutritional plan we’ve suggested to the supplements, and because we’ve come so far in the data world, our whoop straps or aura rings or whatever else, there’s so many devices that are actually able to let us know whether somebody’s burning carbs or fat in this moment or ketones. We can see how an individual’s body is responding and course correct right now. And it isn’t that a ketogenic diet may not be helpful down the road. It’s right now it’s actually putting more stress on your body than it’s already under, which puts you into fight flight, which stops you from burning fat. So, and it’s not just the burning fat, it’s the inflammation. Right. So our food is completely void of nutrients. And we used to have 24 inches of topsoil, now we’ve got, so who’s eating four times the number of vegetables that we, we used to eat to get the same number of nutrients? We’re just not. And our environment is so full of plastic and chlorine molecules and just toxins that our liver says, I have no idea what that is, I have no idea how to detoxify it. And we can’t, we can’t clean the air around us. We can put air filters in our homes and try not to live under pulp mills. But the world is just becoming a Much more aggressive place to live. Dr. Deb Muth 9:33So it definitely is. I mean from the time that you and I grew up to the time that we have now, we have over 75,000 new chemical in just that short period of time. And honestly, as you and I both know, these chemicals have never been tested for this long term use or the way we’re using it, or how much we’re using them or exposing them to our kids that’s never been tested to see how safe they truly are. Dr Deb Heald 10:01I have to apologize to my children and all of the children of that generation. We use latex baby bottles that were plastic line and we linked them up in the microwave. So the wave of endocrine disruption that’s coming at us from practice feeding our infants plastic, it’s a different world. And so we have to approach it just in a completely different way. And you know, menopause shouldn’t be a disease or a state of dis ease, but it is because we’re so depleted. And women used to have predictable stresses and now because most of us are working outside of the home, many are have children that have, how do I want to put this confounders. The number of kids that are neurodiverse and the, the ext work that that creates in a household is unbelievable. So moms typically carrying most of that and then all the guilt that goes with it because moms do guilt, our nervous systems are completely fry, right? So we’re in a constant state of low level fight flight and it changes every single other biochemical process in our body. So when we hit the hormone depletion of menopause, every organ system is profoundly affected. And then we do see more autoimmune diseases cropping up. We do see more inflammatory conditions turning into organ systems not working. And the medical system is. I don’t, I hate to say this, but it’s decades from being able to figure this out. So in the immediate term, what can we do for every woman out there and, and help surround them with community? That’s the other thing that’s really missing. How often do we go next door and have tea or coffee with our neighbors? Dr. Deb Muth 11:41You don’t anymore? Dr Deb Heald 11:42No. So where’s the community supporting you? Dr. Deb Muth 11:45You don’t have one unless it’s online. And then if it’s online, you know how that goes. You can have some support and you can have not support and you can have people be really rude to you. But that support is not the same as having the neighbor next door that you can call on that you can go over and just get out of your house for a few moments and have somebody truly support you. And, and I think back in the day that’s what women did, women supported women. And today there’s so much competition that women are no longer supporting each other. We’re many times tearing women down and judging them and accusing them of doing things that aren’t right for their career, their family, their husband, their this, their that. It could go any way or any shape, but we’ve stopped supporting women in the decisions that they make, whether it’s to be at home or to work or do both or to not have children or to have children. We were just chatting earlier before we came on about having children late in life. That support is completely gone, at least from what I’ve been seeing and hearing, hearing in my practice and what I’m seeing around me. Dr Deb Heald 12:48So another form of depletion. Right. So right. Deplete. Our, our society is. And it’s a wonder we’re upright at all. And all of the other pressures that we take on. We’ve just come through the holiday season and having to have the holidays just so, so that everybody else thinks we’re doing a good job. So our family is enjoying themselves at the cost of our sanity. And the shame that goes with feeling like you’re not enough. Dr. Deb Muth 13:14Yeah. And for your family and your kids to just be like, I don’. Time to come, I don’t have time to do this. I, I hear this every day. You know, families that women mostly that are creating these beautiful experiences for their kids and their relatives. And then at the last minute you have one that calls and says I can’t come and another one that calls and says I have to go to my in laws or I have to go here, I have to go there. And then again we go back to this guilt of what did I do wrong as a woman, as a mother, to not have everybody be with me for the holidays. And I’ve worked so hard to create this environment, beautiful experience for them, for nobody to care but me. Dr Deb Heald 13:53Yes. Dr. Deb Muth 13:53And then that just depletes us more. Dr Deb Heald 13:55So, and then, and then you hit the, your breaking point and you go see your doctor who first of all doesn’t, doesn’t have the time. And I, I can’t call doctors practicing in the world today because you might be scheduled for 15 minutes, but they’re running late. I, I knew a physician quite well who in the wintertime was so busy in Canada with cold and flus, he’d see a hundred people a day. Yeah. So Sitting in front of him, trying to say, so devastated inside because of this happening or that happening. They, they don’t have or take the time to address what’s really going on there. So the number of times people say to me, you’re the first person that has actually sat and listened to me. Dr. Deb Muth 14:36And yeah, I get that same thing. And that’s, that’s part of what natural medicine is. How do you get to know somebody and understand what’s happening to them if you don’t hear their stories? Dr Deb Heald 14:45Agreed. So it’s, it’s a tricky world for women to navigate, so we have to be here for each other. And where I’m sitting right now in practice is literally just helping women replete themselves and looking at the different organ systems or the organelles within the systems that, that being supplied with what they need. And where do we start with this woman? You know, it’s not everybody that needs to have their GI tract optimized first, though. That’s a pretty common one for a lot of women that feel like they’re going out of their minds. We have to start with brain. But everything we do to, to make the environment better for the brain function also makes everything better for the cardiac function and the muscle function. But it’s, it’s just so misunderstood. And then when we get into the, the metabolism, which is where most women end up coming in, is, why am I gaining weight? Right. And so the weight is the physical manifestation that finally breaks them. But what caused them to be gaining weight is also impacting their brain and their heart and their liver and their, their entire system. It’s just, that’s the thing that finally made them come and get help. But when we look at how metabolism comes to a screeching halt in menopause, it’s a wonder that we can carry on at all. Dr. Deb Muth 16:00Yeah. So at what age do you think women should start paying attention to their situation, to their data, and not just their symptoms? Dr Deb Heald 16:0830 way, way, way before you hit menopause, let’s have a strong baseline. Let’s see what’s happening in your early adult life that is putting you into a state that right now you’ve got the tolerance to fix, but over a longer period of time is going to lead to inflammation and dysfunction. And I’m seeing my nieces actually start to pay attention and my daughter to, to their health in a different way. And I think the wearables have a huge amount to do with that. Right. So if you went out last night and celebrated and you’re paying any Attention to a recovery score. And you see that that fourth tequila took three days for you to recover from. Maybe next time don’t have four. Yeah, right. Dr. Deb Muth 16:58One or two, Right? Yeah. Dr Deb Heald 17:00Yeah. Lack of sleep. How does that actually impact you? For how many days? Something that is not. Not the best choice, though. If you’re eating well, 80% of the time, you’re way ahead of the curve. But when you. When you eat something that upsets your system, you can know that right now, literally, if you’re watching heart rate and you eat something that’s inflammatory to you, your heart rate will go up by six or seven beats a minute almost immediately. And that’s a little thing saying your immune system just kicked in. Is this the right thing for you to eat? So the. The more people pay attention without obsessing, and especially on the food thing, I don’t want to create disordered eating for people, but getting to know your body, getting to know its tolerance, and then as women start to have children, how did those tolerances change? Well, they’ll change profoundly because your sleep just disappeared. Yeah, right. If nothing. Dr. Deb Muth 17:54And your hormones changed and everything else is different. And I think that’s a really great point about the wearables. Like, people can get really obsessed with that data, but I don’t think people really understand how to use the data appropriately. You know, like, if you’re eating something that you don’t normally eat or you’re eating something that you know is somewhat inflammatory, you know, it’s the holidays. I’m gonna have some chips. I’m gonna have, you know, some cheese. I’m gonna have some nuts. I’m gonna have a variety of things. That’s really where you want to check your data, right? You know, your. You’re doing something that’s outside of the norm. And we all kind of know, like, I’m puffier, I’m swollen, my brain’s a little foggy. Maybe I have more pain. That’s the time you really want to tune in and say what’s happening? And then start tracking that. Draw the line so that, you know, like, this is the food that bothers me. Because sometimes it can be a healthy food. It doesn’t always have to be a bad food. You know, it can be a healthy food. I have patients that are allergic to lettuce, and they wonder why they’re gaining weight when they’re dieting, and all they’re doing is eating salad. Salads, and you find out they have an allergy to lettuce, and they take that out and their weight goes right back to normal. So it doesn’t have to necessarily always be a bad thing. But using that data appropriately could really make a huge difference. Dr Deb Heald 19:07And making informed choices. Dr. Deb Muth 19:08Yeah. Dr Deb Heald 19:09I was born with a dairy allergy. One of the proteins in milk. And so, and gosh, in the, in the early 60s there weren’t options for formulas that weren’t dairy based. So I was raised on evaporated milk because the heating process in evaporating the, the fluid out of the milk broke down this particular protein. So how I don’t have diabetes, I do not know. But I will elect sometimes to eat Manchego cheese and I know that tomorrow I’m going to pay for it. But I’m making an informed decision today to do it or I’m making an informed decision today. Not. Yeah, right. And so giving people the power, I think the data is power when you know how to use it. And so when women have pregnancies later in their reproductive cycle, seeing how fast that pregnancy taxation on hormones and then the, when the pregnancy concludes and the hormones fall through the floor, I have seen so many women whose ovaries never recover, they start perimenopause literally in that postpartum period. And so knowing that and making sure that you are getting, you know, the sleep that you need, making sleep kind of your, your one non negotiable. There are other things that you’ll sacrifice instead. But maybe sleep’s the most important thing to you or maybe your, your nutrition’s the most important thing. And the wearables will help you determine where you’ve got that play and where you don’t. And so making sure at a much younger age that you’re building muscle mass. We get a lot away for a really long time with being skinny fat. So we look little and everybody assumes, we assume that we’re in shape, but we’re not consciously developing the muscle mass. And for women that’s critical because when our hormones turn off and our metabolism slows down for all of the reasons that it does, the only thing that’s going to drive your metabolism in a non estrogen environment are chemicals that made in muscles. And without the muscle mass, your metabolism will stay slow. Without the muscle mass, you’re not going to have the strength to prevent falls. So if you think at 55 you can start to build muscles, it’s a really big ask. Dr. Deb Muth 21:26Yeah, it’s tough. Dr Deb Heald 21:28And testosterone is the hormone that we need to build muscle mass. And through menopause and postmenopausally most of our Testosterone is getting converted to estrogen. So starting at that point, it’s just too late. So once again, let’s go back to the 30 year old and what are you doing on a regular basis to build and maintain muscle? Dr. Deb Muth 21:49Yeah, when you’re in your prime is when we should be looking at these things. We shouldn’t be waiting until our health and our life age is declining to all of a sudden say, okay, now I’ve got to biohack my way back to being 30 at 50 or 60, because A, it’s much harder to do and B, for a lot of women you don’t ever do it correctly and so you’re trying to mimic that time frame, but it’s, it’s a major challenge for sure. Dr Deb Heald 22:15And then back to these kids that we fed plastic from day one. What are their menopause is going to be like? Because the, all that plastic will disrupt their estrogen receptors and we don’t know what impact it’s having on ovaries directly. The stronger that they can be, the more nourished they can be before their menopause starts, the further ahead they’re going to be. So this isn’t, it’s not just really targeting women that are 45 and older. It’s literally all women really need to be taking it into their own hands because the medical system, like I said so far, is not. And I’m not sure when they will. But we don’t have to wait for the medical system. There are things we can do every single day that are going to help us stay in control of our, our health. I can tell you that. Health span. Dr. Deb Muth 23:02Health span, Correct. And I, I see a lot of young people and there is maybe one out of ten of the young people that I see that have normal hormone levels for their age. I start testing hormones on young women and men around 20, unless there’s a need to do it sooner. But I want to see what they are at their peak. And I have men, young men in their 20s and 30s that have a testosterone level of 100 to 300, when they should be closer to 800, 900. I have young women who can’t peak an estrogen above 50 at 20, when in mid cycle when they should be closer to 100, 150, they’re making no progesterone, they’re making minimal to no testosterone for women. And so when we ask what has this environment done to those young women and men that we have, it’s completely destroyed their hormonal function. They are not at peace and then we wonder why they sit around and have no motivation or drive. I have young men in their 20s with no sex drive. They’re just kind of asexual beings. They don’t even look at a woman and get excited. Women don’t look at men and get excited. There’s none of that that’s happening because they’re lacking these hormones that allow them to do that. And then we wonder what is that going to do to them at menopause? Well, what is it doing to them now? You know, it is creating damage. Those hormones are necessary for cognitive function and bone health and cardiovascular health and all of that. And we’re not asking the right questions, I’m afraid. Dr Deb Heald 24:29Yeah. And, and even if we can see that the gonads are producing the hormones, what’s going on on the cellular membrane level with all those pollutants that the cell can’t absorb them? Dr. Deb Muth 24:43Right. Dr Deb Heald 24:43So anyway. What a mess. Dr. Deb Muth 24:45Yeah, it is. Dr Deb Heald 24:45And, and here’s the thing is it boils down to the naturopathic principles. Improve food, how can we improve sleep, how can we help people manage stress more effectively and, and encourage people to be exercising. I mean, this stuff is gold. Yeah. Dr. Deb Muth 25:01And it’s things that you could do very simply. We don’t, you don’t need to build a, you know, ten thousand dollar gym in your basement to do this. There are ways that you can do this very easily for no cost at home. You just need to get the motivation and the drive and understand how to do it. Dr Deb Heald 25:17Yes. And with the resistance bands that are absolutely available everywhere, even if you’re traveling, you can throw a band in your suitcase and do just the tiniest little bit of muscle reinforcement while you’re away. Dr. Deb Muth 25:32It’s so much simpler than we think. We make it very complicated. Dr Deb Heald 25:35But then also the thing that’s missing when you’re doing it at home can be that motivation. So how do we make this important enough that it’s, it is non negotiable for people? They wake up and they do, they woke, woke up a little bit late. So today Maybe they do 10 minutes, not 20, but just be doing something. Right. Dr. Deb Muth 25:54Yeah. You got to get moving it, you know, sitting around on the couch isn’t moving. You know, you have to get up, you have to move. Even if you’re sitting at your desk and you get a little bike thing underneath your desk that you can put into pedal, you know, you’re moving. It’s not weight bearing, but you’re moving. And that weight bearing exercise is so important to Us. Dr Deb Heald 26:17How does this become something that’s sexy? Dr. Deb Muth 26:21Yeah, that’s what we need to make it right. Dr Deb Heald 26:24Yes. Even, even in the realm of food, when people decide to go onto an exclusionary eating plan, so they’re, they’re going to go keto. So excluding anything that is carbohydrate based in their diet, there are a few people healthy enough to do that and they generally can do it healthfully for a short period of time. But to stay on that type of diet for a long time, that’s where I love the wearables. It’s sort of like the same thing when people are vegetarian or vegan, it’s very, very hard. It has to be a very conscious process to stay healthy as a vegetarian or a vegan. Because your liver has so many things to do. It has 500 functions that it carries on at all moments every day. And when you eliminate animal protein, you’re now also asking it to manufacture other protein and amino acid sequences on top of everything else it’s going to do. So when you make a decision like that, what are you going to eliminate from your world to take some of the burden off of your liver so it has the capacity to do extra work and you have to do these negotiations or you just end up being depleted. But the communities that are vegetarian or vegan to a greater degree and keto to a greater degree have support. You can join all sorts of online groups for people that are following these restrictive type of diet. Being an omnivore, which is eating not bread but carbohydrate in the form of vegetables and fruits, and getting some animal protein, some plant based protein, healthy fats, not the processed fats. There’s no support group for being an omnivore. Dr. Deb Muth 28:05No, there’s that. Dr Deb Heald 28:07So it isn’t one that people are going to opt into necessarily. Because who’s going to support you through your healthy eating choices? Dr. Deb Muth 28:15What are some of the biggest advancements you’re seeing right now in whole body healing that actually move the needle for us that just aren’t fancy trends but actually work? Dr Deb Heald 28:25It’s back to that individual monitoring of what’s going on. So for women that want to lose weight and go on a calorie restricted or carbohydrate restricted diet and they are deciding that they’re going to exercise at the same time. If you are in a rested state, when you go to sleep, your body will burn from fat. In the rested state, if you’re in a stressed state, it needs carbohydrate, it needs Instant energy, right? To. To break down fat into a usable fuel. Takes the liver about eight steps to burn carbohydrate. It’s instant. So when you’re stressed, you’ll burn carbs. When you’re resting or relaxed, you’ll burn fat. But if somebody goes to bed in a stressed state, they opened an email that annoyed them. They are wondering why their child came home late again. Whatever. You go to bed in a stress state, you’ll burn carbs all night long. You wake up in the morning already in a stress state. You decide you’re going to exercise in a fasted state because somehow it got imprinted in our head that you’re supposed to be fasting when you exercise to get the best benefit, and you decide to do intervals, which are a huge stress on your body, an intentional stress on your body. You’re already stressed. Stress. How much fat are you going to burn in that process? None. None. Dr. Deb Muth 29:45And you don’t have any carbs left to burn. Dr Deb Heald 29:48Right. So guess what you burn now? Muscle. Dr. Deb Muth 29:50Muscle. Dr Deb Heald 29:51So here we are working out to try and build muscle, but instead we’re breaking muscle down. So if people can use the biometric data to say, I’m in a stress state, and I know that because my heart rate is higher, or I’m using a device that can actually show how much carbon dioxide I’m exhaling. So if you’re exhaling a lot of carbon dioxide, it means you’re burning carbs. You don’t exhale carbon. You don’t need to exhale carbon dioxide if you’re burning fat as your energy store, it’s not a byproduct of fat. So if you’re already in a stress state, you can either change the type of exercise that you want to do today, so doing more of an endurance exercise, or you can eat and then do your concept. Dr. Deb Muth 30:31What. Dr Deb Heald 30:32So that’s where I’m seeing the improvement is when people are actually starting to collect their data and I interpret it for them until they can start to make those. Those correlations themselves. What. What do I need to eat right now? What do I need? What type of exercise do I need to do right now? And in everybody’s day, there is an ideal time for them to eat carbs. But for a great number of women through Perry and postmenopause that eat carbohydrates, in the evening, they get these big sugar spikes or from eating the carbs, blood sugar. And then about the time they’re going to bed, maybe an hour or two after they go to bed, their blood sugar drops and their body thinks, oh my gosh, we’re starving and it goes into a stressed state. So all night long from that point on, they’re breaking down muscle to create carbohydrate energy so that their stress system can be satisfied that they’re not starving to death. So it’s, it’s not that they can’t eat carbs, it’s that eating them in the evening is putting their body into a stressed state. But at lunchtime it might be fine. And it isn’t even eliminating every single simple carbohydrate or every, I’m going to say treat. We are a reward based society, so the treats are a thing. But maybe it means that if you want to have something sweet after a meal, you do that at lunch and your data will tell you, personally, I would eat, I’m going to call it healthy snacks in the evening mostly because I was bored, certainly not because I was in a starvation state and I started paying attention to my own data and I don’t snack in the evening anymore because it throws my sleep completely off track and it puts me into that stressed, burning carbs all night state. And it’s completely contradictory to my health plan going forward. My parents were, my dad was very long lived, he lived to 93. My mom passed at 84. But I have to say I don’t want the last 15 years of life that either of them had. Just. Yeah, at one point I think my mom thought the family vehicle had flashing red lights on the top of it because she was in an ambulance so often. So I don’t want that. And if I’m doing something that on a routine basis, this is confounding my plan for health span, I have to revisit that. I have to say to myself, you said that you’re, you know, maintaining your health is more important than maintaining your length of life. Look at what you’re doing to your body every single time you eat in the evening. Dr. Deb Muth 33:08If you had to choose one data point that really made the difference for people with a wearable or a device that completely changed how you understood menopause and all of this eating pattern, what would it be through the, through the data lens? Dr Deb Heald 33:22Heart rate variability. Yeah. And so that’s. And certain devices, well, a lot of devices measure it. Some of them are more meticulous with what time frame they’re capturing the variation in heart rate. And I guess for the listeners, we should talk about what heart rate variability is. If your heart rate is beating 72 times a minute, which used to be considered the norm. If you’re in a stressed state, if your sympathetic nervous system or your adrenaline nervous system is driving the bus, every single heartbeat in that minute will be the exact same distance between the beats. When you’re in a relaxed state, it still might be beating at 72 times a minute, but one beat might come a little bit earlier, the next one a little bit later, and there’s more variation between the time between the heartbeats. And that shows that you’re in a relaxed or adapting state. When we’re in fight flight, we’ve got one mission and that’s just staying alive. When we’re in that rest digest, it’s like if it’s a little bit slow, it doesn’t matter because I’ll just speed the next one up. And we’ve got the ability to adapt second to second. So if we are measuring heart rate variability in somebody and in it’s low, it means that they’re in that stressed nervous system state more of the time. And it causes you to burn carb more often than fat, even though fat’s a much better energy store. And the byproducts of carbohydrate combustion cause free radical stress to our body oxidation and inflame organ systems. So the more time we can spend not in fighting flight, the more healthy we will be. And so if you’re using some devices, they’re measuring your heart rate variability through a 24 hour period. So when you are in the peak of your stressed state, your heart rate variability will be little. And then when you’re in a relaxed state, it will be more. And on a 24 hour scale, it looks like you’ve got more heart rate variability. Some of the devices narrow it down to measuring your heart rate variability in the first five minutes after you come out of deep sleep. So there’s way less variability in that number. So the number will be lower than a 24 hour measure, but it’s more accurate. And so I like to, I like to narrow it down to that. But if somebody’s using a device that does it the other way, let’s just compare apples with apples. And so if your heart rate variability is improving, it’s improving. Dr. Deb Muth 35:58So that’s awesome. And that’s an easy thing to be able to measure for people. Dr Deb Heald 36:02It’s on most watches that are measuring biometrics and it’s definitely on the rings and the bands and all of the things. So just working to improve that. And if you’ve had your heart rate variability at a certain level. And then today it’s much lower. Literally just do that process in your head. What was different about yesterday? Oh, I lost my job or I ate from a buffet or whatever it is. And then the next time it has that same fall, see if the trigger for it correlated. And it’s literally just teaching us to pay attention to when our body’s in a state of stress because we’re so used to it that we don’t know anymore. The body’s screaming at us, but we’ve just become so numb to the changes to our body that we think it’s normal. Dr. Deb Muth 36:58Right. Because most of us, let’s realistically are walking out around in a State of Stress 24, 7. The only time you’re at quote, unquote rest is when you’re sleeping, if you’re lucky enough to be doing that. But we think we are because we’re not conscious anymore. And we think our body’s resting, but it may not be. Dr Deb Heald 37:17That’s right. So we are in a state of unconsciousness. But if, if we are burning carbohydrate while we’re sleeping, we are not getting into that restorative state, which means your liver is being distracted and isn’t able to do its peak detox at night. Here’s the thing. Our body is supposed to make cholesterol for us between 1am and 4am and if we’re in a stress state, the mechanism that limits the time that the body manufactures cholesterol to those three hours, that mechanism gets turned off. Off. So the body now manufactures cholesterol 24 hours a day. Oops. Dr. Deb Muth 37:53We wonder why it’s always high. Dr Deb Heald 37:55So, and, and it has everything to do with not getting into restorative sleep. So why are we getting into restorative sleep? Dr. Deb Muth 38:02Right. Well, because we’re constantly stressed and we’re not eating properly. Dr Deb Heald 38:06There we go. So we’re back to sleep and food and exercise and stress management. Dr. Deb Muth 38:11Yeah. Is there an easy way for people to. To pull their data out of their devices that they can look at it as a picture so that they can kind of see maybe the last week or the last two weeks and really start to dig in and see what that data means? Dr Deb Heald 38:29Yes. Almost all wearables now have an app attached to them. So when they know where to go to find the data, it will almost always, in an app, pull it up. But what I’m seeing now is almost all the wearables have some type of AI integration where you can literally, on the app, type in, please show Me, my heart rate variability over the last two weeks. And it’ll just populate on the app a graph. What we’re doing with biometric data and the science and the availability of analysis of that data is mind blowing. I think it could be more effective at improving people’s health than anything that we’re going to see happen in a hospital or in a pharmaceutical company’s research lab. Dr. Deb Muth 39:12Yeah, I think AI has a lot of great benefits in the medical world like this. Compiling data, looking at data over a period of time. We all know, you and I both, we’ve done research. You know, how long it takes to comb through the research and to find things and to try to put it all together. And when AI can be used to help us hack that in a shorter period of time, we are going to make new discoveries so much faster that are going to help people in ways that we’ve never seen before. Dr Deb Heald 39:46It’s the perfect indication for AI. And even when I was working with it back in 2017, oh my gosh, it was just barely an embryo back then. And the whole premise behind it was we still need the, the clinical brains, yes, to point out the relevance of the data, but the AI can take care of all of the mundane stuff that none of us like doing anyway, and it can do it instantaneously. And at this point, we still need the clinicians to show where that’s relevant. Dr. Deb Muth 40:19We started using AI this last year to look at our own data. I have data going back almost 25 years of patients that we’ve seen and protocols that we’ve done. And we wanted to see, of all the protocols that we’ve used over the years, which ones actually worked compared to those that didn’t and how much better outcome and how quickly, because we wanted to see, can we make our protocols better and which ones just should we be abandoning that just are not working for the majority of the people. And we started combing our data and it’s been incredible because it’s easy for us, us to, to see the client and think, gosh, this is working, and so I’ll use it on this person and this person and this person. But then you lose sight of those little intricacies of, well, it worked on this person at this age, but it didn’t work on this person who had this or they didn’t have the combination of these two things. And now we’re being able to see all of that so that we can get people better, faster just by simply knowing the data. Dr Deb Heald 41:20Well, and it isn’t Even so much protocols that need to be scrubbed. It’s. If you’ve got somebody on a protocol, there’s real time data to say continue or pause. This isn’t the way it should. That’s my least favorite word in the entire language but should be going, so what’s different about this person or what was different about their yesterday that we’re. We’re not seeing what would encourage us to continue. And, and every single individual has different needs at different times. Even, even twins. Right. With the studies are amazing. And when any difference in their environment they manifest completely differently. So it’s not genetics. Dr. Deb Muth 42:10No. It’s epigenetics. Dr Deb Heald 42:11Right. Dr. Deb Muth 42:11It’s our environment that changes our genetics and that is the difference. Dr Deb Heald 42:17So looking at the genes is one thing, but looking at somebody’s actual response to an intervention in lifetime. This isn’t blood work that’s going to be done every three months. This is, this is what form of exercise should I do right now or should I eat or not eat before I do it. It’s. I think that’s where medical science to me is the most exciting is literally putting the power back into the hands of the human. Dr. Deb Muth 42:46And honestly, from a client perspective, if you don’t learn this and you don’t learn how to hack your day to day stuff, there is nothing that Dr. Heald or myself can really help you with to make you get where you want to go. Like we have the information, we have the knowledge, we can teach you. But you have to be willing to learn this to hack your like life every single day to get to the optimization that you’re looking for. Because trying to depend on somebody like us to tell you what to do every day is unrealistic. It’s just not going to happen. Dr Deb Heald 43:17Agreed. Yeah. It’s almost gamifying your health. But if that’s what it takes, let’s do it. Dr. Deb Muth 43:23Yeah, why not? Why not have some fun with it. Dr Deb Heald 43:25I love waking up and seeing not so much. I can tell by the way I feel how deep my sleep was. My brain’s either foggy or it’s not. Yeah. But I still love looking at the data and then saying, oh, I did do that yesterday. And to me it’s, it’s a game in the morning to open my app and see how yesterday actually manifested in my ability to get rest last night. Dr. Deb Muth 43:53Yeah, it’s so true. I, I did some traveling on Tuesday and we have a little snow. The weather was bad. What normally should have taken me four hours to get somewhere took me seven. There was a crash on the freeway. We got diverted and like the entire drive was completely white knuckled. Right. And so by the time I arrived where I needed to go, it was 12:30 in the morning and I was super stressed. I kind of relaxed a little bit and then I went to bed and I woke up the next, I didn’t sleep well. I was up almost all night. I was up till probably four in the morning before I finally fell asleep. And it took me two days to recover from that stressor and, and I laid low and I rested. It was the holiday, it wasn’t a big deal. But when it takes you that like you have to be conscious, it took me two days to bounce back from that. And we have stressors like that that happen maybe not at that magnitude every single day, but if you’re not paying attention to how long it’s taking you to recover, that is a huge disservice. Because what are we going to do as women? We’re going to put push through. Right. We need to take care of the kids, we need to work, we need to take care of our parents, we need to check on this person, we need to do this, we need to do that and we’re just going to keep pushing in that state of stress, not realizing that that’s the last thing that we should be doing. Dr Deb Heald 45:08And so there will be non negotiables in that when and which generation where our near adult or adult kids still need us and our parents are, are still needing assistance. Maybe it just means don’t do the intense work up to day move, but just pair it back. Or if your partner suggests inviting the neighbors over for appetizers and drinks like not tonight sweetie. Right. Like literally just drawing the line because you said it. Well, we, we will just push through. Yeah. It’s our future health that we’re sacrificing when we do that. And I do not want to spend my last 15 years sick. I do not want to spend my last, last however many 15 minutes in, in a care facility. Right. Dr. Deb Muth 45:54You and me both, we both know how those are. No, that’s a non negotiable for me. Dr Deb Heald 45:59Agreed. And so when, when people are thinking, well, I know it matters but I can pay attention to it later or it costs money to do this and I’d rather not spend that money. Let’s just price out what one month in a nursing home is going to cost. Dr. Deb Muth 46:13Yeah, you’re going to spend it on the front end or the back end. You get to choose how you’re going to do that and what that’s going to look like for you. Dr Deb Heald 46:20So if that’s some wearables and some guidance up front, let’s do it. And my hope is that when we are more aware of what our behaviors do to our physical body, we’ll also start to tune into the physical signs that’s been sending us all the way along. So we don’t have to be dependent on some band on our wrist. But if you eat something that that’s triggering your immune system, you’ll pay attention to the fact your nose is running. You won’t just wipe it and carry on. It’s literally a histamine release unless it’s hot soup. But it’s saying, this is going to inflame you a little bit. Are you okay with that? And when we start to treat our bodies like the temples that they are, we won’t need the wearables. Right? We’ll say, oh, I’m starting to feel tired. So what that means is I’m going to go to bed. I’m not going to turn on a Netflix series. I’m not going to dive into some project for work that I’d like to get off my plate. My body’s asking for rest right now. So let’s do it. Dr. Deb Muth 47:23I love that this has been such a great conversation. How can people find you and work with you if they’re interested? Dr Deb Heald 47:30I agree. This has been an amazing conversation. I hope that we can do it again. I have a website which is is doctorhealed.com r h E-A-L-D.com I’m on Instagram. That’s Dr. Deb healed. And just direct message me and we will see what we can do. Dr. Deb Muth 47:48I love that. Thank you so much for joining me today. Dr Deb Heald 47:51Well, thank you for hosting and it was just an amazing, amazing time on this. Yeah. Friday morning. Dr. Deb Muth 47:58I agree. Thank you. Dr Deb Heald 47:59Okay, take care. Dr. Deb Muth 48:00This is the part of our conversation I hope you sit with. Because if there’s one truth that keeps coming up not just in today’s episode, but across thousands of women’s stories, it’s this. The body isn’t broken. You haven’t failed, and you’re not imagining what you’re feeling. You have just been taught to follow templates instead of trust data, to chase fixes instead of understanding function, and to silence symptoms instead of listening to them. My hope is that today’s conversation gave you permission to stop guessing and start getting curious about your body’s needs and how to thrive in this episode. If it resonated with you. Please take a moment to subscribe, follow and share. It was someone who needs to hear it. It means the world to us and it really helps us get in front of the eyes of more people. You can find let’s Talk Wellness now on YouTube, Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts. And remember, healing doesn’t just start with another diagnosis. It starts when you finally feel seen and empowered to take your health back. Until next time, I’m Dr. Deb and this is let’s Talk Wellness Now. Dr. Deb Muth 49:08Welcome to let’s Talk Wellness now, where we bring expert insights directly to you. Please note that the views and information shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of let’s Talk Wellness now, its management or our partners. Each affiliate, sponsor and partner is an independent entity with its own perspectives. Today’s content is provided for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered specific advice, whether financial, medical, or legal. While we strive to present accurate and useful information, we cannot guarantee its completeness or relevance to your unique circumstances. We encourage you to consult with a qualified professional to address your individual needs. Your use of information from this broadcast is entirely at your own risk. By continuing to listen, you agree to indemnify and hold let’s Talk Wellness now and its associates, harmless from any claims or damages arising from the use of this content. We may update this disclaimer at any time and changes will take effect immediately upon posting or broadcast. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you find this episode both insightful and thought provoking. Listener discretion is advised. The post Episode 255 – Advancements in naturopathic medicine and whole-body healing first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb Muth 0:03There’s a quiet shift happening in healthcare right now, and most doctors aren’t talking about it yet. People aren’t chasing diagnoses anymore. They’re exhausted by them. I see it every single day in my clinic. People who come in with stacks of paperwork, portals full of results, and a list of diagnoses longer than their grocery receipt, yet they’re still not living their lives. And they’ll say to me, Dr. Deb, I don’t want another label. Dr. Deb Muth 0:32 I just want my life back. If you’ve ever been told this is just how your body is, if you’ve been diagnosed, rediagnosed, and then dismissed, if you’ve been handed labels but never handed a roadmap, today’s episode is for you. Because we are officially entering what I call the post diagnosis era and it’s changing everything about how healing actually happens. So grab your cup of coffee or tea and let’s settle in to let’s talk wellness. Now, before we dive in, we need to take a quick pause to thank today’s sponsor. And when we come back, we’re going to talk about why diagnoses are no longer the most important thing about you. Dr. Deb Muth 1:17Did you know sweating can literally heal your cells? And infrared saunas don’t just relax you, they detox your body, balance hormones, and boost mitochondrial energy. I’m obsessed with my health tech sauna, and right now you can save $500 with my code at healthtechhealth.com Dr. Muth req 25 so here’s some truth for me. Dr. Deb Muth 0:47It was three years ago Christmas that I received my Ms. Diagnosis. And I remember it very clearly. It was the day before, two days before Christmas Eve, that I got the call and I heard the words, you have white matter brain disease. That’s consistent with Ms. And I immediately stopped in my tracks and thought, okay, well, this is just the way it is. We’re gonna fight this. We’re gonna figure this out. And it led me down a deeper path of healing and spirituality and emotional growth. And there were some really difficult days ahead for me because I remember thinking, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna practice what’s going to happen in my life? And every year at this time, I reflect back to that day that I got the call that really changed my life. And not for the worse, but for the better. It changed the way I was thinking about life. Dr. Deb Muth 3:01It changed the way I was complaining about things being ungrateful for all the amazing things that I have in my life. Not intentionally, but just living the American life. Right. Dr. Deb Muth 3:14And striving for more and wanting more and chasing more and doing more, and never really having the opportunity to just be present and just really think about life and enjoy what the Lord has given us and enjoy what’s around me, the people in my life, the family that I have, the amazing practice that I have, and the amazing people I get to work with and change lives with. And it really changed me for the better. And I’ve watched diagnoses like this change people for the worse and for them to sink deep into a depression and give up and. And live to their label instead of living to their potential. And that’s why I think this episode is so important for us, because we all have a choice in life. When we get dealt something kind of difficult, we can let it consume us and let it take every ounce of life from us, or we can allow it to become the fuel that makes us better, makes us contribute to life maybe differently, but in a better way. So, you know, I know that this idea of letting diagnoses lose their power can be really uncomfortable for some people, because there’s people that are waiting for that diagnosis. I’m in some. Some social media groups, and I’m listening and reading to people who are saying, I’m so angry I didn’t get the Ms. Diagnosis today. I’m so angry I didn’t get the Lyme diagnosis today. I’m so upset that they can’t find anything wrong with me. And I understand. Dr. Deb Muth 5:20I know the feeling of wanting to put a name to what you’re feeling so that you have validation and you have power around this diagnosis, and you can prove to people that what you’re feeling is not in your head. I get all of that. But for many people, the original diagnosis is meant to help guide treatment in the conventional sense. It’s a created, shared language that we have, and it brings clarity. But for many people, you give that label and that name so much power and so much control over your life and who you are and what you’re being. And that’s not what the label is meant for. Somewhere along the line, medicine started confusing naming with healing. And today, we have more diagnoses than ever. We have more testing than ever. We have so many thousands of specialists, and yet people are sicker. They’re more inflamed, they’re more exhausted, they’re more confused than ever. And that’s not just a coincidence. That is how the system is meant to work. It’s meant to confuse you. Dr. Deb Muth 6:44It’s meant to keep you dependent on it. It’s meant to. Meant to keep you on medical management for the rest of your life. And by doing that, we enrich the pharmaceutical companies to the point where their whole role is to continue to create drugs that you need to be on for the rest of your life. And the hard truth about all of this that I’ve seen in my practice is for many patients, the diagnosis really becomes their identity. They own it, they gravitate to it. It’s who they are. It also becomes their prison because they only live confined inside the diagnosis. I can’t do this because I can’t do that, because if I do this, this will happen, because I have. They’ve capped their ceiling of life based on a couple of words that somebody gave them at a point in their life when they were so low and potentially so desperate that they needed that name to identify themselves and what was going on. And instead of asking, why is this happening? Dr. Deb Muth 8:05Why are these symptoms happening? What’s causing these symptoms? They’re told, this is what you have, and this is what you’re going to have to live with. And instead of restoring function, these people become managed. Like I said, they’re managed with drugs. They’re managed inside the system. And instead of healing, they’re monitored with this blood test and that blood test and this MRI and that mri. Instead of providing hope, they’re handed a lifelong prescription with expectations that do nothing but decline. So you walk out of that room with this expectation that your life is never going to be the same, that your function is going to decline, your neurological disease is going to take over eventually, you’re going to be put in a home, you’re going to lose everything you have because you’re not going to be able to afford the care that you need. And that’s the expectations of our healthcare system today. When you’re labeled with a chronic illness diagnosis, and for a woman, especially women, this is magnified because their symptoms are told to them as. It’s stress, it’s hormones, it’s anxiety, it’s aging, it’s motherhood, and then, of course, it’s perimenopause. Like that is some major traumatic thing that should disrupt your entire life. Yet it shouldn’t, and it does, and it doesn’t have to. And of course, my favorite is always, but your labs are normal. We don’t know what’s wrong with you. It must just be in your head. Dr. Deb Muth 9:53And this is why women are done being dismissed, why this shift is happening now that we are empowering women to take back Their lives, take back who they are and take back how they’re being treated in the healthcare system. And it is one of the most important things that we can do right now is to give women their power back so that they can stand strong in who they are and in their intuition and fight and say, no, this is not happening to me right now. I am not accepting this label. I’m not accepting this diagnosis. I will fight, I will find answers, and I will do what I need to do to be the woman that I want to be. So why is this conversation exploding right now? Well, there’s actually three big reasons, and first and foremost, it’s over. Diagnosis, burnout. People are collecting diagnoses without solutions. Autoimmune labels, syndromes, vague neurological names, but no one’s connecting the dots. Dr. Deb Muth 11:02You see, when you start to stack these labels on top of each other, one after the next after the next, you know, it’s celiac disease, it’s Hashimoto’s, it’s fibromyalgia, it’s autoimmune. You know, rheumatoid arthritis. It’s. Whatever it is, it’s long haul Covid. These days, no one is putting these connections together to say, why are you developing so many diseases that are so similar in nature, ones that just kind of domino after each other? Nobody’s looking at your immune system. Nobody’s measuring it, Nobody’s telling you how well it’s working. No one’s supporting it. They’re just throwing these biological drugs at you. And if there’s an autoimmune disease and sending you on your way and saying, this is what you have to look forward to for the rest of your life. But don’t worry, these side effects are rare, including cancer. It does not make sense to me that we are not looking at the root cause for all of these crazy diagnoses that we are labeling people with today. And I am guilty of it myself, because within the system that we work, we have to label something in order for you to receive the care that you need, for your insurance, to pay for the treatment, for the tests, for the visits. There has to be a label. And that’s what we call an ICD10 code. And if we don’t have the appropriate label, none of what we’re recommending gets covered for you. And that’s the label game began. The second thing is long haul Covid. And post viral illnesses. Dr. Deb Muth 12:47Millions of people were told, we don’t know why, and then we sent them home to figure it out by themselves. We don’t know why your immune system is failing, we don’t know why you’re having these clotting issues that are happening. But don’t worry, these clotting issues really are not that severe. They’re mild in nature. You’ll never have to worry about it. And we’re not going to treat it even though it’s four times the level that’s normal, because we’re going to wait until it’s 10 times the level of normal to even worry about it at this point. Dr. Deb Muth 13:19And it will take us 25 to 30 years before we understand any of the risks and barriers that have happened from these post viral illnesses that have occurred in our environment and the ones that are in the future to come. Because it takes time for us to study things, it takes time for us to figure it out, takes time for us to train the practitioners, and it takes time for us to accept something different than we thought was reality. And that is the problem that we have today with these post viral illnesses that are long acting, that are retriggering new viruses, retriggering old illnesses like Lyme, reactivating things like Epstein Barr virus. It will take decades before this becomes mainstream. And right now it’s fringe medicine and it’s not realistic. And those of us that are speaking about it are chastised and gone after, but by our medical communities and we are told that we are the crazy ones. And that is how medicine has always been. Way in the beginning, and I forget the doctor’s name, who started just observing that when medical students worked on cadavers and then came into the labor and delivery ward and delivered babies, these women were getting sick with infections and they were dying. And he said, what if we just washed our hands between the cadaver and the delivery? Would we save lives? And he did a small study and he was right. And over time he was made fun of and he was put into insane asylums and he was locked away. And now today we would never think of entering a room and working on a patient without washing our hands beforehand. But that took 30 years for that one concept of washing hands to be adopted. And it destroyed one man’s life because he simply asked the question, what if it’s a crazy society that we live in, It’s a crazy outlook that we have on medicine and asking questions. And sometimes I wonder, is it truly science or is it politically driven? And I think the answer is it’s both. And the third thing that we have is technology. And technology is outpacing wisdom by far. Hands down, AI, advanced labs and imaging can identify everything. Now using AI, but without context, it creates a fear. Dr. Deb Muth 16:08And instead of clarity, without context, using AI to interpret labs makes absolutely no sense. Without context and understanding and us actually training this LLM model, the AI doesn’t really know what it, what it means. And someday it will, I’m sure, but right now it doesn’t. So as everyone is taking to AI to treat themselves and create a protocol and diagnose themselves and understand their labs and know that it is without context that you are doing this, and research is wonderful, but without having somebody truly understand you and the art of healing and the art of medicine, this is going to get lost and you will not have the information that you truly need simply by using chat GPT. Now I’ve created my own version called Venari and I hope that this will be much better because it will have context. It will have 15,000 protocols that I have used for the last 25 years. It will have lots of research. It has all of the research databases that we can connect to. It has training that I have given it using my brain and how I see a client every single day in practice. So when you’re using our Venari app, you will be able to have that context. You will be able to have that pushback and that voice. And not only that, you will have the option then to work alongside someone to help you identify that context that you’re looking for. Does this make sense? Dr. Deb Muth 17:53I’ve seen this a lot in the peptide world, where in these Facebook groups, people are talking about the peptide stacks that they’re using and they’re telling people that it’s okay to use any peptide you want because they’re just small chain branch amino acids. And that can’t be farther from the truth because there are some peptides you would not want to use because they can stimulate the growth of cells. And if you have cancer or if you have a history of this, there are some peptides that we need to avoid. And unfortunately, AI doesn’t understand that yet and doesn’t know that yet. And it’s just creating stacks. And people are creating stacks without understanding what they’re doing. And I watched my best friend do this as she was learning peptides and she had cancer and it created an aggressive sarcoma. And I believe the peptides had a lot to do with that because it stimulated the growth of the cells. And it wasn’t until after she had passed away that we found this journal of hers that she was studying peptides and recognized that this could have contributed to her advanced cancer. And if you don’t have that context and you’re using AI to create these stacks for you, you can put yourself in harm’s way. And so AI technology, I think, is going to be fantastic in a lot of ways. It’s going to have its downfalls. And you’re going to need an expert when you’re using AI. You’re not going to just be able to treat yourself with this. You know, understanding that more data doesn’t always equal healing, and more data can be helpful. But again, you have to understand how to put those pieces together, how to ask the right question questions. And for that, you need somebody who has seen thousands and thousands of cases to find the missing pieces for you. Because AI is not going to do that unless it’s been trained to do that. Vanari has been trained to do that. Dr. Deb Muth 20:01It’s been trained to push back and look at lime and mold and toxins and chemicals and metals and all of those things. But there is no other AI bot out there, LLM that has been trained to do that using clinical data that I use every single day in my practice. And people are finally realizing that, you know, they’re understanding that although this world of AI and technology is amazing, it has its limitations, just like practitioners have their limitations. We don’t know everything. We are not perfect. We are human. And humans make errors and we miss things. With or without technology, we miss things. And part of it is because we just don’t know what we don’t know yet. And sometimes it’s because we have our blinders on, and sometimes it’s just simply because we don’t have the information today that we’re going to have five years from now. And here’s what I teach instead. I teach the seenet last. And that’s what we built it on. Restore and root. Rise and restore. Sorry, that is my methodology. And it’s in the scene at last book. And it starts with healing. It starts with asking better questions. So instead of asking, what do you have? We want to ask, what has your body been exposed to? What symptoms are underperforming? What’s driving the inflammation for you? When you have joint pain and you have muscle pain and you have achiness, that is not normal. Dr. Deb Muth 21:38I don’t care if you’re 20 or you’re 80, it is not normal. And yes, I did say 80, because we are not supposed to have that kind of inflammation at 80. And why are we underperforming? Why is our Brain not working correctly? Why is our mood not working? Why can’t my body push up a hill? Why can’t I lift 10 pounds? What’s going on? Why can’t I recover from that activity? What’s interfering with my ability to repair and heal after I’ve done some things that I need to do? What’s keeping your nervous system stuck in this survival mode, in this fight or flight mode? Why can’t I get past that? Sometimes that answer is really simple and sometimes that answer, it is so hard and so complicated and it is so many things that are causing this body to be stuck. And sometimes it’s a six month fix, and sometimes it’s a six year fix and sometimes it’s decades long. And it is one of the most challenging things as a practitioner to get clients to understand and to be on the other side of the table and not get you that quick fix. It is extremely difficult for us as well when we are not seeing the results that we think we should see. We need to focus on function over diagnosis, root cause over labels. Dr. Deb Muth 23:09What is driving all this inflammation and certainly restoration over resignation. Do not resign to the fact that you have this life altering disease that is never going to change. Because if we find the root and we restore the body, you don’t have to live in that death sentence that you’ve been given of a diagnosis, whether it’s fibromyalgia, MS, Alzheimer’s disease, celiac disease, Hashimoto’s thyroiditis, it does not matter what that diagnosis is. We can change it, we can make it better, we can reduce the symptoms, we can improve your life. Maybe not in ways that you are absolutely looking for, maybe not in a perfect world, but we can change the trajectory of where your life is going. And it’s because you’re not an ICD9 code or an ICD10 code. You’re not a code, you’re not an MRI result, you’re not a lab result, you’re a human body asking support, not a name. And I say that with a little hesitation because so many people are looking for the name. So many people are angry that someone didn’t find the name. I have clients that come to me that are so angry that the conventional medicine system did not identify their Lyme disease, that they’re looking for someone to sue and there is no one to sue because they didn’t find it, because sometimes they just don’t know. You’re asking for conventional medicine, practitioner and system to provide for you a label that is not within their wheelhouse to do. Because the way they treat Lyme disease and the way an eyelads practitioner looks at Lyme disease and has. Has the ability to test differently are two very different things. Dr. Deb Muth 25:27You’re asking for a system to perform in a way that they are not trained and guided to do. Then you’re looking and asking for somebody to place blame for an illness that you have, that you have yet taken ownership for. And I know that sounds harsh, and I know there’s going to be a lot of people that are angry at me for saying that. But I sit in front of you as someone who had Lyme disease, who had mold mycotoxin illness, who had high viral titers, who had post Covid peripheral neuropathy, who had the diagnosis of ms, who has white matter brain disease, who treated all of it not in the conventional world, who has halted the white matter disease and regrew her brain by 1.5 standard deviations, which is unheard of in 18 months. So I can say this to you. There is no one to blame for your lack of diagnosis or your diagnosis. It is life. It is what happens to us. And you have a choice at the crossroad to either take the path of hatred and anger and bitterness and blame and never getting better a result of that, or you have the ability to take the path of curiosity and openness and willingness to change and willingness to walk down a path that is different than what the conventional medicine is telling you to do. And those are your choices and you get to make those choices. But what you don’t get to do is blame some someone else and try to destroy them for something that they are not able to do. That is not what we get to do in this life. Dr. Deb Muth 27:29It is not right and it is not fair. If someone has truly injured you, that’s different. That’s different. But this looking to blame somebody because they didn’t give you a label, Ridiculous in my opinion. And if you’re listening and thinking right now, I’ve been diagnosed, but I’m not better, I want you to hear this clearly. You are not broken. You are not crazy, and you are not done. Sometimes the most healing moment isn’t getting that diagnosis. It’s realizing that the diagnosis was never the whole story. And that’s where the real healing begins. When we look at the entire story, we look at your entire life from the beginning to where you are now and what has happened to get you there. And once we get that, then we can put you back together. Not in the old way, in a new way in an amazing way, in a way that you would cherish your life for every moment that you have of it. Good, bad and ugly. A diagnosis should not be the doorway. It’s not a dead end. It is just the beginning. Remember, you don’t need another diagnosis. You need your life back. And that’s what’s important. Dr. Deb Muth 29:19We are living in a moment where medicine is being forced to evolve not because systems want to, but because patients are demanding better. This post diagnosis era isn’t about rejecting science, it’s about using it wisely. It’s about restoring function, dignity and hope. And I hope that if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who’s been labeled but not yet helped. Because sometimes the most powerful healing starts when someone finally feels seen. Thank you for being with me here today. If you haven’t already, make sure you subscribe and follow. Let’s talk Wellness now on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you’re listening and I’ll see you next time. Until then, keep asking better questions, trusting your body and remembering you are more than a diagnosis.The post Episode 254 – Beyond the Diagnosis: Healing in a Post-Diagnosis Era first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb Muth 0:03Today’s guest is someone I’m honored to call both a friend and a mentor, and one of the most trusted voices in medicine for patients with complex chronic illness. Dr. Neal Nathan is a board certified family physician who has spent decades caring for patients who don’t fit neatly into diagnostic boxes. Patients with mold related illnesses, Lyme disease, mast cell activation, and profound nervous system dysregulation. These are the patients who are often told their labs are normal and their symptoms are anxiety or that nothing more can be done. Instead of dismissing them, Dr. Nathan listened and he asked better questions. His work, including his landmark book, Toxic, has helped thousands of people finally feel seen, believed, and understood, and more importantly, has given them a path forward when medicine failed them. This conversation is for anyone who reacts to supplements or medications, for anyone who has gotten worse instead of better with treatment, and for anyone who knows their body that something deeper is going on, even if they’ve been told otherwise. Dr. Nathan, I’m deeply grateful for your mentorship, your integrity, and the way you continue to advocate for the most vulnerable patients. I’m so glad to have you here today. And before we begin, grab a cup of coffee, tea, or whatever grounds you, because this is the conversation you’ll want to settle into. Now, before we go onto this conversation, we need to hear from our sponsors. So give us just a quick moment and then Dr. Nathan and I are going to dive in to his story and how this all started for him and leave you with some nuggets of wisdom that you can help yourself with. Ladies, it’s time to reignite your vitality. Primal Queen supplements are clean, powerful formulas made for women like you who want balance, strength, and energy that lasts. Get 25% off@primalqueen.com Serenity Health that’s PrimalQueen.com Serenity Health because every queen deserves to feel in her prime the right places and then we can get started. All right? So, Dr. Nathan, like I said, I’m so excited to have you here today. Tell us a little bit about how did you start your career? Because you didn’t intend to work with the most complex and sensitive patients, I’m sure when you started out. But what did you notice early on that made you realize medicine was missing something? Neil Nathan MD3:03You know, Deb, actually, I did start out wanting to work with the most complicated cases. My delusional fantasy when I started was I wanted to help every single person who walked into my office. And so when I left medical school, I realized pretty quickly that the tools that I learned there were not adequate to do That I needed to learn more. So I started on a passionate journey of discovery, if you will, in which I started studying with anyone who had anything interesting about healing to talk about. And I want to emphasize that I was interested in healing, not in what I’ll call medical technology. So medical school taught me to be a good medical technologist, but it didn’t teach me about healing. I graduated a long time ago. I graduated from Medical School in 1971. And the word holistic wasn’t even a word back in those days, but that’s what I was looking for over many, many years. I studied osteopathic manipulation, homeopathy, therapeutic touch, emotional release techniques, hypnosis. If it’s weird, I probably have studied it at some point. I wasted some weekends studying things that I don’t think were particularly valuable. And I’ve had some remarkable experiences with true healers that taught me how to expand my understanding of what healing really meant. So early on, when I first started practice, I would invite my colleagues to send me their most complicated patients because that was my learning. That makes me weird. I know that. I love some problem solving. You know, I’m the kind of person who I get up in the morning and I do all of the New York Times kinds of puzzles. That’s. That’s my brain wake up call. So actually I did invite my colleagues to send me their complicated patients, and they did. So, I mean, they were thrilled to have me in the community because these were people they didn’t know what to do with. And I was happy as a clam with all these complicated things that I had no idea what to do with. But it pushed me to keep learning more, to keep searching for this person’s answer. And this person’s answer, that constant question is, what am I missing? What is it that I don’t know or understand? What questions am I not asking this person that would help me to figure it out? So sorry for the long winded digression. Dr. Deb Muth 6:14No, I’m glad you shared that. I’m very similar to you. I didn’t seek out working with the most complex, but as I started that, I was always very curious as well. So I was the same as you. Every weekend I would learn something and hypnosis and naturopathic medicine, homeopathy, and all these quote unquote weird things, right? And there’s always a pearl that you learn from something. You never not learn anything, but some of it, you kind of take or leave or integrate or not. And, and I think it, it makes you a better Practitioner, because you have all these tools in your toolbox for helping people that nobody else has been able to help. And. And it’s just kind of fun learning. I mean, I’m kind of a geek that way too. I like to learn all those things. Neil Nathan MD7:00Learning is my passion. One of my greatest joys in life is going to a medical meeting and getting a pearl. Literally. I’m not one of these people at medical meetings that have a computer in front of me listening. And I have a pad of paper and I’m writing down ideas next to people that I’m working with. So that, oh, let’s bring this up for these people. Let’s bring this up for these people. So it’s like, oh, great. Can’t get right back to the office on Monday so I can start, have some new ideas about what I’m missing. Dr. Deb Muth 7:38Yeah, I do the same thing. I have my pad of paper and I do the same thing. And as I hear something, I’m thinking about a person that’s in my office that I haven’t been able to help, or we’ve been stuck on something, and I’m like, oh, there’s a new thing we can try. And it’s so exciting. I love that. Let me ask you this. Was there a time when you finally thought, like, if I don’t listen to these patients differently, they might not ever get better? Neil Nathan MD8:04That’s a very complicated question. The people that I was treating that weren’t getting better were the ones that got my greatest attention. And one of the questions that constantly troubled me still does is, is this person not getting better because of some feature of themselves, or is it because of something that I don’t know? So I’ve wrestled with that for a very long time. My answer to it now is, For a long time, I’ve been able to see what I will call the light in a person. Call it a healing spark and energy. It isn’t truly light. There’s just something about that person when I work with them where I know this person will get well if I stick with them long enough. And then when I don’t get that, I don’t think I’ve helped any of those people over the years. Yeah, so it was a very long process of really not helping people for five years daily. And I would. I would ask those patients, I would say, you know, I haven’t helped you. We’ve been doing this for a very long time. Why are you still here? And they would say, because you care. And I would. Back when I was Younger, that was enough for me to go. That’s true. Okay, I’ll keep working at it. But as I’ve gotten older, caring isn’t enough. It’s. I’m not sure I’m the right person for you. And so as I’ve gotten older, when I don’t see that spark, when I don’t get that sense of someone, I’m more inclined early on in the relationship to tell them I’m not the right person for you. Yeah, you know, see if you can find someone else who can understand what you’re going through and help you. Because I, I’m not it. Dr. Deb Muth 10:16Yeah, you, you kind of know that you can help them or not. Yeah. Neil Nathan MD10:21I don’t know how to define that sense, but it’s very clear to me. I call it like seeing the inner light of another being. If it’s not there, and maybe it’s not there for me to see as opposed to someone else can see it. Dr. Deb Muth 10:41That’s interesting. So you’re known for working with patients who are highly reactive. They don’t tolerate supplements, a lot of times medications, or even some of your most gentlest protocols. Why are these patients so often misunderstood? Neil Nathan MD 10:59Because they appear to their family and to many other physicians to be so sensitive that the thought process of families and other physicians is often. Nobody’s that sensitive. This has got to be in your head. And that is what is conveyed to those patients. And they’re told it’s gotta be in your head. Go see a psychiatrist or a therapist. But I can’t help you. And unfortunately, we have learned in the last 20 years a great deal about, is making our patients so sensitive. It is a true reaction of their nervous system and immune system, and it is in response to various medical conditions they have. So again, as we’ve been talking about, those were the people that got sent to me for many years. And I, I have never believed that the majority of any. Anything that someone has experienced is in their head. Yeah, Almost everything I look at is real. I may not understand what is causing it, but for me, doubting a patient’s experience is not something I’ve ever done. And that’s what’s helped fuel what I’ve learned and what you learned over the year. That, okay, if this is real, and it is, I’m sure it is, the person in front of me looks like a straight shooter. They’re not hyper reactive. They’re not going off the deep end talking about it and talking about it very straightforwardly. And I’ve got these symptoms. I’VE got this, I’ve got this. And it’s really making my life miserable. Okay, what’s causing that? So I began to work with what we now call very sensitive patients and figuring out what caused that. So over the years, I think we have names for this in medicine. Sometimes we call this multiple chemical sensitivity. People who will go to be walking down the street and someone will walk past them wearing a particular scent or perfume and they will literally fall to the ground or go brain dead or can’t think straight or even have some neurological symptoms. And I’ve seen that happen in my office. I’ve seen patients walking down the hall and having a staff member who had washed their clothes and tied walk past them. And I literally watched them fall on the floor. And it’s like, this is not psychological. This is someone who is reacting to the chemical that they are being exposed to and this is the effect it’s having on them. And so eventually it became clear that all forms of sensitivity, sensitivity to light, sound, chemicals, smells, food, EMFs, touch, were really being triggered by a limbic system that was unhappy. We began to learn about limbic issues before that. Give you a short history of it. I have discovered something called low dose immunotherapy different by Butch Schrader. And there was a long three year period of if someone stuck with it. If I used those materials over time, a lot of my chemically sensitive people would get better. It was the only tool I had back then. Dr. Deb Muth 14:41Yeah. Neil Nathan MD 14:42)Then, I don’t know, 15 years ago I discovered Annie Hopper’s work with dynamic neural retraining. And when I added that to what people were doing, that’s when I had my, ah, this is an Olympic system issue. And this is something we can reboot. And since then, many other people have limbic rebooting programs which are quite excellent and useful. Now I helped a lot of people at that point and it wasn’t until I stumbled on Stephen Porges work with the vagal system with this concept of polyvagal theory that I realized that the two areas of the brain that are monitoring that person’s environment, internal and external, for safety, are the limbic and the vagal systems combined. So when I started adding vagal strategies to the limbic strategies, I helped even more people. And then the first, the third piece of this trifecta was 2016 when Larry Afron wrote his book Don’t Never Bet Against Occam, in which he began our understanding of mast cell activation. And when I read his book, it was like, oh, big piece of the puzzle. And then we realized that those three things. And there’s more, but those three things were treated, Would help the vast majority of our sensitive patients regain their health and regain their equilibrium. This is not psychological. This is really treatable. Dr. Deb Muth 16:19Yeah, I’ve noticed the same thing in my practice and followed very similar paths. As you started out with ldi and lda, and then the vagus nerve things have been by far. I think if I look back, the vagus nerve work has been the biggest changer in our practice as well. I mean, all of the things help, but, like, I can give somebody a vagus nerve stimulator today, and within 30 days, 90% of their symptoms are better. And that just kind of blows my mind. It’s like I’ve never had a tool in my toolbox that has worked that well and that quickly. So. So it really is making a big difference. And I, too, was trained way back in the late 90s with multiple chemical sensitivity people. And some of those clients that I inherited from my mentor are still around. And, you know, they still can’t function at all. They’re wearing gas masks. They can’t leave their house. You know, any smells that even come in without them opening the windows, they are stuck. And no matter what you do, it’s just a challenge. Nothing works for them. And it’s a very sad life that they have to live. Neil Nathan MD 17:30Well, let’s add to that story that you can give people limbic vagal and mast cell treatments, and it’ll really work well to help them, but you need to look deeper, which is what is causing mass cell issues. And in my experience, mold toxicity is by far the number one and various components of lyme disease is a second one, and then a variety of other environmental toxins, infections, and things like that may trigger for some, but you’ve got to go back and get to the cause or else. Dr. Deb Muth 18:12Yeah, nothing works. Neil Nathan MD 18:13You can make them better, but you can’t really get them. Well, you get rid of the cause, and people can completely differently life back. Dr. Deb Muth (18:20-18:21)Yeah. Neil Nathan MD 18:22One of my frustrations with the mast cell world is after Larry efferent’s book came out, it changed people’s consciousness about mast cell activation. Something genetically rare to something which we now know. It affects 17% of the population, so not rare at all. But the clinics that are popping up to do it, and now in every major medical center of the country has a mast cell clinic. But number one, they rely completely on testing to make the diagnosis, and testing is notoriously inaccurate. And second, they just aren’t aware that you gotta get cause. So they’re helping people, but they’re not curing people because they’re not looking for cause. Dr. Deb Muth 19:13Yeah. And if they’re helping people, it’s on a minimal level, in my experience. They’re. You know, most of the patients that we see that have been at those clinics have been dismissed. Once again, told that because the testing isn’t positive and they’ve only done it once, that they don’t have this. But yet they fit all of the pictures. And then when you start digging, you start realizing they really do have mast cell, and. And you can find the answers for it for them. Neil Nathan MD 19:40Yeah. Dr. Deb Muth 19:41Why do you think mold remains so unrecognized in conventional medicine? Neil Nathan MD 19:48Interesting question. You know, I started writing a book chapter on the history of mold toxicity, our understanding of mold toxicity. And it’s. It’s fascinating to me. The mold toxicity is described in the Bible as a fairly long passage in Leviticus where it talks about that. So it’s not like it’s unknown to the universe, but largely, it’s remained undiscussed. Most people are aware of mold allergy. We’ve been treating mold allergy for decades. That we accept fully. I think the answer to your question lies in history a little bit. And I didn’t know this until I started kind of digging into it. There was an episode in the 70s in which a large number of school children in Cleveland, Ohio, got sick, and public health authorities attributed it to mold. About a year or two later, it was discovered that they. The H VAC system in the school had Legionella. Legionnaires disease. And it was then decided that, no, it wasn’t mold, it was legionnaires. And then a number of articles began appearing in the medical journals. Their names were literally mold. The hoax of mold toxicity. And that consciousness pervaded for 20, 30 years where people were reading these articles in which they were being told that mold toxicity was a hoax. That’s a strong word. And it took papers after papers after papers published in all kinds of medical journals, which were began to say, this is very real. This is symptoms that. That we see. It wasn’t until 2003, when Michael Gray and his team published a series of papers showing that these widespread symptoms, which we now recognize as mold toxicity, was real and directly attributed to mold. Now, keep in mind, we didn’t even have a test for mold at that point. Dr. Deb Muth 22:10Right. Neil Nathan MD 22:12So you could say this is mold toxin, because this person was. Well, they went into a moldy environment, they got sick, they went out of the moldy environment. They got well again, but we didn’t have treatments. We didn’t have a test for it. Historically, people were suspicious. Not very scientific. 2005, Richard Shoemaker wrote his book mole warriors, which really began to popularize the concept of this was a real thing. And in it, Ritchie talked about his markers and the visual contrast test. Now, these were not specific for mold, but they strongly, at least implicated that. Now, we had a test that could be helpful. So it wasn’t really until about 2010 that the first urine mycotoxin test came on the market. And at that point, we. We really could tell a person, you’ve got these symptoms, you’ve been living in mold. And now we have a test that shows you have mycotoxins in your urine. Now, it’s not like it’s a theory. It’s coming out of your body. That has furthered it, but not yet in the consciousness of the medical profession at large. As I’m sure you know, the history of medicine, in fact, the history of science, is that new ideas take 20 plus years to really be accepted by the profession. A new drug, a new technology is accepted very quickly because there’s an economic push to it. There’s no economic push to a new idea. So we’re still in the throes of some of us who work in the field. People say there’s no published data that really prove that this exists. And we’re working on that. As you know, we’re working on getting the papers published, but again, working on this history of molotoxism, There are actually hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of papers in the medical literature which really attest to the fact that this is a reality. It’s just that you and I are the only ones reading these papers. Dr. Deb Muth 24:33Yeah, we’re the only ones that care. Yeah. What would acknowledging mold actually forced medicine and the institutions to confront? Neil Nathan MD 24:44First of all, many medical offices and. Dr. Deb Muth 24:47Hospitals are molding, very much so. Neil Nathan MD 24:51And nobody wants to deal with that. It’s expensive. It’s difficult to truly get mold out of a building when it’s there. And so there’s a huge economic push to not acknowledge mold toxicity as an entity. The whole building industry doesn’t want to deal with it. Yes. It is estimated by the federal government that 47% of all molds have visible or smellable mold in them. It’s not like it’s rare. Not everyone’s going to get sick from it. But if your immune system takes a hit from anything and it loses containment over that mold, then you will take a hit from it. And it is also estimated that at least at this moment, 10 million Americans are suffering with some degree of mold toxicity and don’t even have a clue that that’s a real thing and that it can be both diagnosed and treated successfully. Dr. Deb Muth 25:51Yeah, it’s so hard. Like so many of the patients that we see, mold is never on their radar when they come to us. You know, Lyme disease is never on their radar when they come to us. And many of our patients have both. And the argument of there’s no way I could have, you know, mold exposure until you start digging back into their history a little bit. And then they’ll say, well, yeah, grandma’s house smelled and you know, I live in a hundred year old house, but it’s been completely renovated. And until you start having these conversations and really talking about it, people don’t have a clue that these things could make them sick. Or they, you know, I have a lot of clients that renovate houses for a living or that’s, you know, their hobby. And they go in and they renovate these houses and they’ve never worn appropriate equipment to protect themselves and, and then they’re sick 10, 15 years later. But don’t really understand why. Neil Nathan MD 26:47Yeah, from my perspective, it’s about how robust the immune system is. Dr. Deb Muth 26:51Yeah. Neil Nathan MD 26:52That if your immune system is robust, and this is true for Lyme as well as molecules, you could be bitten by a tick, you may have a Lyme or a co infection of Lyme like Bartonella rubesia in your body, or you could be exposed to mold, you could be living in a moldy environment, and your immune system will allow you to function at a high level for a while if your immune system takes a hit. Now the hit recently, big time, was Covid that unmasked Lyme and mold for a lot of people and a lot of people who think they have long whole Covid really have unmasked that they have Lyme and mold toxicity. That’s a whole other subject here. But menopause, childbirth, surgical procedure, any severe infection, any intense emotional reaction, death of a loved one, any of these can weaken the immune system. And then what is already there is no longer contained and we are off to the races of severely impaired health. Dr. Deb Muth 28:02Yeah, that’s what it did for me. I got sick with COVID and maybe about six, eight months later, I started to express neurological symptoms that looked like Ms. And actually had the diagnosis of Ms. But knowing what I know, I said, you know what? Ms. Is something else. Until proven otherwise in my book. And so because I had the knowledge that I did, I went and did all the Lyme testing and the mold testing and hit the trifecta of everything. Lyme co infections, mold, viruses. I just had everything. And as I started down that path of trying to clean it all up, all of my symptoms started to disappear. And certainly it wasn’t as easy as it sounds, and it wasn’t as quick. And I felt a lot worse before I felt better, as most of our clients do. But I think that I’m not the only person that this has happened to. And I think a lot of people get misdiagnosed just simply because nobody’s looking for the other problems that you and I look for and that we know of. And that’s one of the ways our medical system fails the clients they work with. Unfortunately. Neil Nathan MD 29:12One of the things that I teach and want people to be aware of is any specialist who makes the diagnosis that includes the word atypical. So atypical ms, atypical Parkinson’s, atypical Alzheimer’s, atypical rheumatoid arthritis, whatever it is, if that’s the word. What they’re saying is this has feedback features of this illness, but doesn’t really match what I see every day in my office. And when I hear the word atypical, I say, please look for mold, please look for Lyme. Because that is often the case here. Dr. Deb Muth 29:51Yeah, oftentimes it is. You also teach that when patients get worse under treatment, it doesn’t mean they’re failing. It means the treatment might not be appropriate for their psychology. Can you explain that a little bit? Neil Nathan MD 30:05Yeah. I think that many people start understanding about things like Lyme or mold and don’t really have the bigger picture. And so they will jump in with aggressive treatments in people who aren’t really ready for that degree of aggressive treatment. And here we’re going to come back to, if someone’s living vagal and mast cell systems are dysfunctional and not working properly, it is highly likely they won’t be able to take normal doses of the binders we use for mold, or to take antifungals or to take the antibiotics we need for Lyme disease. It’s not that they don’t want to. They can’t. And so what I see is not understanding what you need to do, in what order. If you do it in the right order, you’ll help the vast majority of people you’re working with. And again, that trifecta of limbic vaginal, mast Cell is one piece that a lot of people don’t address. And again, order matters. For example, in the mold world, some people have learned that, oh, I’ll need to give people antifungals to get this mold and Candida out of their body. But if you do that and you don’t have binders on board, there’s a very high risk that you’re going to cause a severe die off and make people really miserable. I remember when we kind of first started this, I was working with Joe Brewer, who’s an infectious disease specialist from Kansas City. And Joe wrote some of the earlier papers on this particular subject. And I was doing, I had a radio show at that point and Joe was on and we were talking about mold toxicity and how we treat it and what we did. And he mentioned that about 40% of his patients had this really nasty die off. And I went, I almost never see a die off. And so when we got off the program, we sat down and tried to compare notes about, okay, what am I doing differently than you, that I’m not getting the die off. And Joe, as an infectious disease specialist would go quickly to his antifungals. And yes, he put people on binders, but he also simultaneously put the lungs in pretty heavy doing antifungal. They got a nasty diure. I never put people in antifungals until their binders were up and running. So from my way of thinking about it, if you use any antifungal, they all work by punching holes in the cell wall of either a mold or a candida organism, killing it. However, by punching holes in it, what’s in that cell leaks out. And that includes mycotoxins. So. So you’re literally, if you’re using it aggressively, you can literally flood the body with mycotoxins. And if you don’t have the binders on board to mop it up, there’s a high risk that you’re gonna be pretty miserable. Cause you’re literally more toxic. Dr. Deb Muth 33:18Yeah, I remember in the early 2000s when they were teaching, if you’re not getting somebody to have that die off reaction, that quote unquote, herx reaction, then you’re not doing your job, you’re not giving them enough. And we would have clients that would come in and say, I’m not herxing. You’re not doing enough for me. And we were always the ones that are saying, you don’t have to hurt to get rid of this thing. I’m a naturopath too. And so preserving the adrenal Function was always very important to us. And we were like, if we cause you to hurts like that, now we’re depleting the adrenal system. We’re creating more problems that we’re gonna have to fix on the backside. And that was the narrative that was being taught back then. And I’m glad that’s not the narrative that’s being taught today, for sure. But people don’t understand. Like you said, you’re more toxic at this point, and creating more toxicity isn’t what we want to do. Neil Nathan MD 34:12It’s not good for healing. Kind of intuitively obvious, but you’re right. Back in the early days, we were taught that just to put a spin, I’ll call it on a nasty Herc’s reaction. Oh, great, we’re killing those little microbes. This is fabulous. Yep. I mean, that’s how we spun it back then. And currently I can’t say that some Lyme literate doctors still believe that, but most of us have realized that. No, that means we’re killing him too quickly. We need to modify what we’re doing so that we are killing it, but not at a rate that our patient is getting worse. Dr. Deb Muth 34:59Yeah, I always tell people we want to kill the bug, but we don’t want to make you feel like we’re killing you at the same time, because that’s what’s going to happen if we’re not careful. So, yeah, how does trauma and emotional or physical trauma and abuse and chronic illness, how do they all reinforce each other? Neil Nathan MD 35:24Our limbic systems have been trying to keep us safe since we were in our mother’s uterus. By again scrutinizing the stimuli we’re being exposed to from the perspective of safety. So none of us have had perfect childhoods. Yeah, some older than others. But depending on what you had in your childhood, maybe you had recurrent ear or throat infections and took lots of antibiotics. Or maybe you needed surgeries. Or maybe you had parents who were both working and not particularly available to you. Or maybe you had abusive parents in any way possible. But through your whole childhood experience, your limbic system is really going okay. This isn’t safe. This is not good for me. This is not right. And becoming more and more hyper vigilant to really be aware of that so it can try to keep us safe, which is okay. Maybe my parent was an alcoholic and okay, they’re coming in now. I’m going to make myself scarce. My limbic system is going to tell you, get out of here. Don’t put yourself in harm’s. Way, if that’s the case. And then as we go through our lives, more things occur. We have heartbreak when we’re teenagers, and we have difficulties with work or bosses or other things. Each insult of safety to us helps to create a limbic system that is more and more hypervigilant. So if you then have a trauma of any kind, it’s kind of like the straw that breaks the camel’s back at that point. And that could be mold toxicity, that could be Covid, that could be the loss of a loved one, that could be a betrayal of some point, any number of things, once that happens. Now that limbic system is super hypervigilant. Now, what that means is, symptomatically for people is we’re going to have symptoms in two main categories. Not to make us sick, but to warn us from our limbic system that, hey, this isn’t safe for you. You got to get into a safe place here. And those symptoms are in the category of emotion and sensitivity. So with any of our patients that we see, if they have become more and more anxious patients, panic, depressed, ocd, mood swings, depersonalization, derealization, that’s all limbic. And if they have any increase in sensitivity to light, sound, chemicals, smell, food, touch, EMFs, limbic. So most of our patients have gotten to that place. And as I’ve said, the vagal system comes along with the limbic system because it does the same job. Those symptoms are a little different. The vagal system controls the autonomic nervous system, and so things like temperature, dysregulation, pots, blood pressure, palpitations. The vagus nerve also controls almost all gastrointestinal function. So almost any symptom in the GI tract is going to have a vagal piece to it. Gas, bloating, distension, reflux, abdominal pain, constipation, diarrhea. So those are common symptoms in our patients. And it helps us to tease it apart that we can literally tell them these are symptoms of vagal dysfunction. These are symptoms of limbic dysfunction. And I hope I’m answering your question, which is, how does this evolve? It evolves throughout our whole life, and then eventually we get to the point where our limbic system is overwhelmed. And here’s the good news. We can treat this. We can fix it. We have various programs. And honestly, Deb, I believe that every man, woman and child on this planet needs limbic retraining, or at least limbic work. Co did a real number on the whole planet. Yeah, most people live in some degree of fear From a wide variety of causes. And we don’t have to live in fear. We don’t have to let us hurt us, but we do need to recognize that it is limbic, it is vagal, and we can do something about it. Dr. Deb Muth 39:58Yeah, that’s an exciting time for us, I think. You know, I. I agree. Like, the last couple of years have been very traumatic for a lot of people. Our young kids that were traumatized in school, their parents, the grandparents. I mean, everybody has gone through some kind of anxiety or fear around what’s happened in the last few years, and not to mention all the things that they’ve lived with their whole lives. And this just kind of came to a head and I think broke open for a lot of people that were suppressing their feelings up until this point. And it. It just was the perfect storm for a lot of people, unfortunately. And there’s a lot of people that can’t get over the trauma that’s occurred. The lying amongst the government and our families, how we treated each other and pushed each other aside and, you know, broken families apart because of their belief systems. It really did a number on people, and they’re really struggling to get back. Back for sure. Neil Nathan MD 40:56Yeah, we’re in complete agreement here. Dr. Deb Muth 40:59Yeah. Yeah. So many of our listeners, especially women, have been told their symptoms are anxiety or stress or quote, unquote, just hormonal. Right. And from your perspective, what damage does that kind of dismissal cause for people? Neil Nathan MD 41:16We have a fancy word for that, which is iatrogenic illness. Translation is your doctor is making you sick by treating you inappropriately, not making the right diagnosis and not honoring what you’re experiencing. There’s actually a new word that I’ve recently heard called medical gaslighting, in which you describe something to your doctor and he goes, no, this is in your head. There’s nothing really physically wrong with you, and you know that. No, no, no, no, no. I might be a little bit stressed by it, but something else is going on in my body. And they’re telling you, no, we tested you. Usually those testings involve doing a blood count and a chemistry profile, and that’s it. Those tests will not reveal the kinds of things we’re talking about because you’re not looking for the right thing. So it is really common for our patients to have been told that there’s nothing wrong with you. You need to see a psychiatrist because they don’t know enough to understand that the symptoms you’re describing, if you understood what you’re looking at, are very clear manifestations of Things. Things like mold toxicity and Lyme disease, chronic viral infections, a variety of other things. But your doctor has to know this in order to happen. And this is a failure of medical education. So if my message to everybody always is never doubt yourself or what you’re experiencing, it’s real, there’s never a reason to doubt that. If the people around you aren’t believing, you find someone who does. And again, to augment this, part of the problem is if families accompany the patient to the doctor’s office and they hear the doctor telling them it’s in their head, families become less supportive of their loved ones and go, well, doctor said, this is in your head. I don’t know why you feel so awful. And so families need the same point of view of trust your loved one’s perceptions. There’s no reason not to. Malaboring hypochondria is extremely rare. Gets talked about a lot. I’ve been practicing for over 50 years. I have rarely seen, seen anybody with those truly with those symptoms. So trust yourself. Good. Dr. Deb Muth 44:03I love that. What do you wish every clinician understood about listening? Neil Nathan MD 44:13I wish that every clinician had the same curiosity that we do, which is, I might not understand why this being in front of me has these symptoms or is ill, but I’m going to do everything in my power to figure it out. That means I’ll learn what I need to learn. I’ll study what I need to study to figure out why this person is sick. I really wish, and I understand kind of why that’s happened. My wife always thought that everyone was like me, which was Saturday mornings. My great joy in life was getting up early with a cup of coffee and reading medical journals or obscure medical books. That was my joy. She was shocked that most other people don’t. The way medicine actually evolved. We’re burning out doctors at a rate never before in the history of this planet by making them do things that are not in the service of patients, but are in the service of making money. And so doctors are being given seven minutes per visit. If you have a complicated person, there’s no way you could do income. Seven minutes. The way the system is set up, it doesn’t allow doctors to do their job. And then they’re under tremendous pressure to get the charts filled out properly, the way the advent of electronic medical records supposed to be. This great thing is it’s making doctors have to go home and spend two hours at home, not with their family, but getting their charts squared away. And I don’t think all patients realize the Kind of pressures that doctors are under. So to answer your question, I would like doctors to be more curious, but also, the system is broken, and I wish we could fix the system so that every patient could get the amount of time they needed with their doctor to really explore what’s going on and get to the heart of what’s happening. Dr. Deb Muth 46:31I so agree. So agree with all of that. If there was one question you would want every patient to ask their doctor, what would it be? Neil Nathan MD 46:44How would you treat me if I was your sister, mother, relative, whatever. Not what you want to do, theoretically. But if I were your wife, if I were your sister, how would you treat me? I don’t see that happening much, especially with elderly people. I see Doctors going, you’re 80. What do you expect me to do? I’m getting pretty close to being 80. And I expect you to help me because I want to function at this high level for a very long time. There was. It was an old joke that used to be Bella went in to see the doctor, and the doctor, he said, doc, my knee is all swollen and it’s tender and I’m having trouble walking on it. And the doctor said, you’re 102 years old. What do you expect? But, doctor, my other knee is perfectly fine, and it’s 102 years old also. So I once had the opportunity. I had a 100-year-old patient who had exactly that. So that was able to look at his knee and go, we’re going to take care of this. So it’s just older people need to be treated with respect, with the same thing, of absolutely no reason that they shouldn’t get the kind of attention that you would want your grandfather, your father, to have. Dr. Deb Muth 48:16Yeah, I love that question. So I have one last big question for you. If medicine were rebuilt around patients instead of systems, what would you change? First. Neil Nathan MD 48:33I would get rid of the middle man in medicine, the HMOs, the managed care organizations, where they take the profit and it’s being shunted into other areas. So rather than the physician being paid directly for what’s happening, they just get a piece of it that the managed care organization deems appropriate. You know, I grew up in what was called golden age of medicine back in the 70s, where I could do for people what they wanted done. People didn’t doubt that it was in their best interest and that if I ordered a test, it got done. I didn’t have to have someone else authorizing or tell me this is an okay or an appropriate test, I could do it. So I would go back to a. A practice of medicine, direct care, where you. Maybe there’s a system that would help reimburse you for it, but you could go to the doctor and you get what you need, and the doctor decides what you need. Actually, they’re the ones seeing you. Would a clerk in an office 600 miles away decide whether you can have this test or not? Have this test? Test? It doesn’t make any sense to me. I should be able to deliver what you want and need, and I should have the time it takes to really work with you. I’d like to go back to the 70s. Dr. Deb Muth 50:07Me too. Me too. Is there one thing that gives you hope right now for our system? Neil Nathan MD 50:16Honestly, I’m a very optimistic person. My answer is is no. I think the system is broken. I think it is being held intact by people who are profiting from this system. They have no interest in letting go of their profits for it, and they don’t have any interest in seeing that people get treated properly and well. So I think, as I said, the system’s broken. It needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Dr. Deb Muth 50:45I agree. I agree. Dr. Nathan, thank you so much. Not just for the conversation, but for the way you’ve modeled curiosity and humility and compassion in medicine. It is an honor to work alongside of you, call you my friend, and learn from you. Thank you so much for that. For those listening, if this episode resonates with you, I want you to hear this clear clearly, your sensitivity is not a flaw. Your body is not broken. And needing a different approach does not mean you’re failing. Healing doesn’t happen by forcing the body. It happens when the body finally feels safe enough to heal. If this conversation has helped you and you feel seen, I encourage you to share it with someone who needs that as a reminder. Thank you for being here and thank you for sharing with us. Let’s talk wellness now. Neil Nathan MD 51:38So in this context, I just want people to be aware of one of my recent books, which is the Sensitive Patient’s Healing Guide, which talks about this in great detail. And the new second edition of my book, Toxic, goes over the whole mold Lyme thing in more detail. So again, that wasn’t intended to be self serving, but rather there are resources where you can learn even more about it than Deb and I are able to cover in this short interview. Dr. Deb Muth 52:09Yeah, absolutely. And your first book, Toxic, was amazing. So if people haven’t read it, you definitely want to read the second version of it because it is incredible. And Dr. Nathan, if there’s somebody that wants to get a hold of you. How do they find you? How do they learn more about what you’re doing? Neil Nathan MD 52:24A very complicated website. Neilnathanmd. Com. Dr. Deb Muth 52:30Perfect. Well, thank you for today. Neil Nathan MD 52:34You’re very welcome.The post Episode 253 – Environmental exposures, Lyme disease & multiple chemical sensitivities: integrative approaches to healing first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

David Jernigan 0:15Hello! Dr. Deb 0:16Hi there, sorry for all the confusion. David Jernigan 0:19Oh, no worries, you gotta love it, right? Dr. Deb 0:21Oh, I can’t hear you. David Jernigan 0:23No way, let’s see, my mic must be turned off? Dr. Deb 0:27Hang on, I think it’s me. Let’s see…Okay, let’s try now. David Jernigan 0:40Okay, can you hear me? Dr. Deb 0:42Yep, I can hear you now. David Jernigan 0:43Excellent, excellent. And, how are you today? Dr. Deb 0:48I am good, thank you. How about yourself? David Jernigan 0:50I’m good. Well, it’s good to finally meet you and get this thing rolling. Dr. Deb 0:56Yes, yes, I’m so sorry about that. David Jernigan 0:58That’s alright, that’s alright.So… Dr. Deb 1:01Yeah, go ahead. David Jernigan 1:03So, tell me about yourself before we get going. Dr. Deb 1:06Yeah, so I am a nurse practitioner. I’m also a naturopath. I have a practice here in Wisconsin. I’ve been treating Lyme for about 20 years, so I’m really excited to have this conversation and learn what you’re doing, because it’s so exciting and new. David Jernigan 1:21Well, thank you. Dr. Deb 1:22Yeah, so we treat a lot of chronic illness patients, do some anti-aging regenerative things as well, so… David Jernigan 1:30Yeah, I went to your website and saw you guys are killing it, looks like. Dr. Deb 1:35Yeah. David Jernigan 1:35Got a lot of good staff, it looks like. Dr. Deb 1:37Yeah, we’ve got great staff, great patients, busy practice. We have 5 practitioners, so we have about 15,000 patients in our practice right now. David Jernigan 1:46Well, excellent. Yeah. Excellent. Yeah, yeah.So, I’m excited for this discussion. Dr. Deb 1:53Good, me too. So I pre-recorded our intro, so we can just kind of dive right in, and I’ll just ask you to kind of introduce yourself a little bit, tell us a little bit about yourself, and, and then we can just dive right into it. David Jernigan 2:08All right. I’m Dr. David Jernigan, and I own the Biologic Center for Optimum Health in… Franklin, Tennessee, and I’ve been in practice for over 30 years. I shook Willie Bergdurfer’s hand, if anybody knows who that is. It’s kind of infamous now with some of the revelations that have happened about Lyme being a bioweapon and weaponized. But, you know, I’ve been doing this, probably longer than almost anybody that’s still in the business in the natural realm. It chose me. I did not choose Lyme. Matter of fact, there were many times in my career that I was like. You know, cancer’s easier because of the fact that everybody agrees, you know, what we’re dealing with. And in the 90s, it was a whole different reality, where nobody actually understood that you could have Lyme disease and not be coming from New England.You know, so I had actually the first documented case of a Lyme disease, CDC positive.Patient that had never left the state of Kansas before. So they couldn’t say that it wasn’t in Kansas, and so she had actually been, pregnant with… twin boys, and they were born CDC-positive as well, and so it is transmitted across the placenta we know.So, I, you know, the history of how I did all this was, in the 90s, probably 1996, probably, somewhere in there, 97. With this woman, you know, I… if you go into Robin’s pathology books from back then. Which we all used, medical doctors and everybody else studying. you know, there was basically a paragraph about Lyme disease, and on the national board tests, as you recall, it was probably like, what causes, or what is, bullseye rash associated with? And you’d had to guess Lyme disease, of course. Dr. Deb 4:07Female. David Jernigan 4:08But that was, you know, considered to be more a New England illness, and you would never see it anywhere else. But here was this woman. I knew… nothing about Lyme beyond what we had gotten taught in college, which was, like I say, next to nothing. And she would not let me stop feeding me information. I mean, you gotta remember, the internet wasn’t even hardly in existence in those years. I mean, it was brand new. It was supposed to be this information highway, and So I started purchasing, like a lot of doctors do even now, they start purchasing every kind of new supplement that’s supposed to work for bacteria. There was no product in those days that actually was Lyme-specific. I mean, nobody was really dealing with it naturally. It was always a pharmaceutical situation. Dr. Deb 5:04And a very short course at that. David Jernigan 5:06Yeah, 2 weeks of doxy and you’re cured, whether your symptoms are gone or not, which… she’d had the 2 weeks of doxy, and her symptoms and her son’s symptoms were not gone. And so, I absolutely just purchased everything I could find. Nothing would work. I mean, I could name names of products, and you would recognize them, because they’re still out there today. Dr. Deb 5:28Which is. David Jernigan 5:30Kind of a… A sad thing that natural medicine is still riding on these things that have the most marketing. Dr. Deb 5:37As opposed to sometimes the things that actually have the documented research. David Jernigan 5:42Behind it, and I am a doctor of chiropractic medicine, and I specialized all these years in chronic, incurable illnesses of all types. That may sound odd to a lot of people, but doctors of chiropractic medicine are trained just like a GP typically would be. The medical schools, as I understand it, got together, decades ago and said, wow, if all we did was… Crank out general practitioners for the next 10 years, we wouldn’t have still enough general practitioners to supply the demand. Dr. Deb 6:17Right. Everybody in medicine, in medical schools, wanted to be a specialist, because that’s where the money was, and it was… David Jernigan 6:24Easier, kind of, also, to… you know, just focus on one part of the body, and specialize in that. Dr. Deb 6:31Expert in that one area. David Jernigan 6:32So we all now have the same training. We all go through pre-med. We got a bachelor’s degree, I got my bachelor’s degree in nutrition, and through, Park University in Parkville, Missouri. And so, you know, when I ran out of options to purchase, I just used a technology that I developed, which was an advancement upon other technologies, but I called it bioresonance scanning. And I coined the term back in the 90s. It was a way to kind ofKind of like a sensitive test, you know, like you might. Dr. Deb 7:09I wouldn’t. David Jernigan 7:09Of applied kinesiology, then clinical kinesiology, then chiro plus kinesiology, then, you know, you can just keep going with all the advancements that were made. Well, this was an advancement upon those things, so… I developed… I was the first in… in… my known world of doctors to develop a way to detect adjunctively, obviously we can’t say it’s a primary diagnosis. Adjunctively detect the presence of a given specimen. So we could say, thus saith my test. It’s highly likely you have Borrelia burgdurferi. And, but I had to have the specimen on hand to be able to match what I call frequency matching to the specimen. Brand new concept in those days. And so I was able to detect whether or not my treatments were successful or not. This is something even now that’s really difficult for doctors, because antibody tests, even the most advanced ones, it’s still an antibody test. It’s still an immune response to an infection.And accurately, you know, some doctors will slam those tests, saying, well. That doesn’t mean you actually have the infection, that just means your body has seen it before, which is a correct statement, kind of. So being able to detect the presence, and even where in the body these infections are was a way huge advancement in the 90s, for sure it’s kind of funny, I think about a conference I went to, and cuz… I’m kind of jumping ahead. Because I ended up developing my own formula, just for this woman and her children, and it worked. And I was like, wow! Their symptoms were gone, all the blood tests came back negative. In those days, we were using the iGenX. Western blot, eventually. And the, what was called a Lyme urine antigen test. I don’t know if you remember that, because it… Only decades later did I meet, the owner of iGenX, Nick Harris. Dr. Deb 9:17Person. And I was like, whatever happened to the Luwat test? Because I took it off the market after a while. He said, honestly, we lost the antigen and couldn’t find it again. Oh, no. David Jernigan 9:27And so… but that was a brilliant test. It was the actual gold standard in those days. Again, the world… it can’t be understated how different the world was in the 90s. Dr. Deb 9:40Yeah. David Jernigan 9:41Towards natural medicine, even. Dr. Deb 9:44Oh, yeah. We think… we think it’s bad now, but, like, when I started, too, I started in the early 2000s, like, we were all hiding under the radar, like, you didn’t market, we would have never been on social media, we didn’t run ads, we didn’t do any. David Jernigan 10:00Right. Dr. Deb 10:01Because the medical boards were coming for us. David Jernigan 10:04Came after me. Dr. Deb 10:05Because I had the word Lime on my page, my website. David Jernigan 10:10You know, not saying that I treat Lyme. Dr. Deb 10:13Hmm? David Jernigan 10:13Yes Dr. Deb 10:15Just talking about mind. David Jernigan 10:16And it’s funny, because, once I had this formula, it was something… and I trained in Germany, in anthroposophical medicine, and they’ve been trained in herbal… making herbal extracts, making homeopathic remedies in the anthroposophical methodology, and I trained with the Hahnemann versions of homeopathy, which is just slightly different. Yeah. And, so I was well-versed with making some of my own formulas by that time. And so, it was really something that I wrote on the bottle, you know, and I had to call it something, so I called it Borreligin, which is still in existence, and it’s still a phenomenal herbal remedy right now. And to my knowledge, it’s the only frequency-matched herbal formula. Maybe still out there. Because unless you knew how to do my testing, the bioresonent scanning, there was no way to actually do frequency matching. Matter of fact, as a really famous herbalist attacked me online, saying, oh, none of these herbs will kill anything. And I’m like, that wasn’t what I was saying. I was saying, back in those days, I was saying, well, if… what would the body need to address these infections?You know, not, like, what’s gonna kill the infections for the body. Dr. Deb 11:38Right. David Jernigan 11:39Right? So it was a phenomenal way, but the LUAT test was amazing because what you’d do is you would give your treatment, like an MD would give an antibiotic for a week, ahead of time. Trying to increase the number of dead spirochetes showing up in your urine one day out of 3 days urine catch. So you’d wake up in the morning, you’d collect your urine 3 days in a row, and any one of those being positive is a positive. But it was a brilliant test because it wasn’t an antibody test. They were literally counting the number of dead pieces of Lyme bacteria in your urine. I mean, it was pretty irrefutable. So I had a grand slam on the… the Western blot on patients, and I’d also have a grand slam on the LUAT, and their medical doctors would say, oh, that doctor in the lab are probably in cahoots change some lab. Dr. Deb 12:38Of course. David Jernigan 12:39That come in. And I still see that today. You know, it’s like, oh my gosh, the better the tests are getting. There’s still a bias if you do your own research. Well, if you happen to be a doctor who loves research. And you’re a clinician, so you actually treat patients who’s gonna write the research study? Well, of course, the doctor who did the study, well, he’s biased, and I’m like, I still can’t influence lab tests. Well, lab tests aren’t everything. People scream over the internet at me. It’s like, well, a negative lab test doesn’t mean anything. I was like… I get that with the old Western blot testing. Dr. Deb 13:16Right. David Jernigan 13:16The more sensitive tests, which are very close to 100%, Sensitivity, and 100% specificity. So, meaning, like, they can… if you have the infection, they’re gonna find it. Dr. Deb 13:30They’ll find it, yeah. David Jernigan 13:31And if they… if you have the infection, they’re going to be able to tell you exactly 100% correctly what kind of infection it is. Back in those days, you couldn’t, you could just count the dead pieces, which was… Dr. Deb 13:43Yeah. David Jernigan 13:43Significant, but It’s funny, because when medicine does that, you know, mainstream medicine that’s backed by all the nice foundations who donate millions of dollars towards the research. Their negative tests are significant, but if you fund your own, Yours isn’t that significant. Dr. Deb 14:04Right, or what if we call something a seronegative autoimmune disease, like lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, because none of the tests are positive, but you have all the symptoms. Here, let me give you this $100,000 a year drug. David Jernigan 14:19Yeah. Dr. Deb 14:19And instead of looking for what might actually be causing the symptoms. That’s all okay, but what we do is not okay. David Jernigan 14:27Right. Yeah, it’s a double standard, and it’s getting better. I want to do… tell the world it is getting better. Some of the dinosaurs are retiring. Dr. Deb 14:36No. David Jernigan 14:37Way for people who are… Are more open-minded to new ideas. But, getting back to that woman, she… that formula that I made just for her and her son, I… She went online. Dr. Deb 14:54Which, I had never been on a news group. David Jernigan 14:58Not even sure I knew what one was, you know? Imagine, I’m kind of that dinosaur that… Cell phones were, like, these really big things with a big antenna sticking out of it, and… Dr. Deb 15:09Nope. David Jernigan 15:10So I thought I was pretty hot stuff, just that I actually had a computer software program that was running my front desk. And even then, it was an Apple IIe computer. Dr. Deb 15:21Right. David Jernigan 15:22Probably be pretty valuable right now if I’d kept it, but… Dr. Deb 15:25Mmm… David Jernigan 15:26It being an antique. But, suddenly people were calling my clinic, because the lady with the twin boys that was well was telling people on these research, I mean, these Lyme disease forums and boards online. And, I started going, oh my gosh, you know, as a doctor, it’s one thing to treat a person in your clinic, it’s a different thing to have your clinic name on the label. Like, we all do, Even now, and you’re supposed to write everything that’s on the label, and… all these guidelines, and I’m like, wow, I need to split this off. I mean, I def… I definitely want to help people, and this is… I was pretty excited about the results we were getting. Pre-treat… Pre-treatment and post-treatment. And, so… that’s where I developed, my nutraceutical business in the 90s called Journey Good Nutraceuticals. My advice to anybody thinking about doing the same thing, don’t put your last name on it. Dr. Deb 16:25– David Jernigan 16:25You know, because anytime negative anything comes out, there goes the Jernigan name, you know, the herbal, you know, there’s just all these, and especially nowadays, with all the bots that are just designed to slam natural medicine. Dr. Deb 16:38Yeah. David Jernigan 16:39And that is out there in a… and just ugly people. Dr. Deb 16:42Or should we just say, people with a different opinion? How’s that? David Jernigan 16:46Yeah. That are being less than supportive. Dr. Deb 16:49But. David Jernigan 16:51It was amazing, because by 1999, I presented my research, my first research, I’d never done research. This is what I would… I would say to a lot of people who go, my doctor did… I don’t know, my doctor doesn’t know what you’re doing, my doctor… I was like going, you know, most doctors don’t do research. They don’t publish anything. Their opinion is their opinion, but they don’t back it up in peer review, right? And so that’s what I always tried to do, was back it up in peer review and publish. And so, in 1999, I presented at the International Tick-Borne Diseases Conference in New York City. I’m telling you, it was like the country boy going to the city, you know, I got my… I got my suit on, and I looked all right, and my booth was wonderful, and all these different things, and it was just a big wake-up call.Because what we had demonstrated… let’s get back to the… and this was what I demonstrated with that first study. was that… A positive LUAC test, that Lyme urine antigen test for my Gen X, was a score of 32. Meaning, one of those 3 mornings urine had 32 pieces in the amount of urine they checked of deadline bacteria spirochetes. Okay? Okay. With antibiotic challenges, a highly positive was a score of 45. Dr. Deb 18:19Wow when I would give one dropper 3 times a day for a week. David Jernigan 18:24Ahead of time, and then do the person’s LUAT test, We were getting scores 100, 200… And at that point, we only had a couple, but we had a couple that were greater than 400. Yeah, dead pieces, where the lab just quits counting. They just said, somewhere over 400, right? Dr. Deb 18:45Yeah. David Jernigan 18:46Which, when the medical system at the conference, you know, I was the only natural doctor in the world that was… had any kind of proof of anything naturally that could outperform antibiotics. Can you imagine? Dr. Deb 18:59Yeah. And… David Jernigan 19:01They were just, oh my gosh, incredulous. They’re like, I’ve given the most… one guy came up to me, and to my face, and he goes, I’ve given the most aggressive antibiotic protocols And I’ve only seen one patient over 100. I was like, that makes this pretty significant, doesn’t it? But, it didn’t just, like, make us take off, because guess what? In Lyme world, if a pharmaceutical antibiotic made you feel horrible. That meant it was working. Dr. Deb 19:28That’s right. We used to, back in the day, if you didn’t herx. And had that horrible die-off reaction, for those of you who don’t know what a herx is, but if we didn’t make you herx, we weren’t doing our job right. David Jernigan 19:40You’re looking for your patients to feel horrible, and sometimes to the level of committing suicide. Dr. Deb 19:46Yes. David Jernigan 19:47So bad. Dr. Deb 19:48Yes. David Jernigan 19:49And I was the first doctor, I think, in the world to start screaming and hollering and saying, stop using the worsening of your patient’s symptoms as a guide to good treatment, because they’re… I wasn’t seeing it with my formulas. Because I was doing a comprehensive program of care. I think I was also one of the first doctors to say, we need to detoxify these people as we’re doing this. And you would sit there and say, well, sure you were. I was like, well, remember, there wasn’t a lot of communication. There wasn’t anybody on the internet saying, do this, do that. And, It was, it was interesting in those days. It was, how do you… How do you help the world heal from these things? That they don’t know they have. So later, I actually had a beautiful booth at a health… a big health expo in Texas, I remember, and I was like, you know, you spend a lot of money on the booth, and… Dr. Deb 20:43Yup. David Jernigan 20:43And you’re thinking about it because you’re funding the whole thing, you say, wow, if I only sell one case, I’ll at least cover my cost. Dr. Deb 20:51Yep. Yeah, you’re great. David Jernigan 20:52And I had this beautiful banner of, like, a blown-up tick’s mouth under microscope. You know those beautiful pictures of, like, all the barbs sticking out, and how they anchor themselves in your skin, and… And, thousand people walking by my booth, and they’re just like, keep walking, because they didn’t know they had Lyme. There was, like, and they had MS, maybe, but they don’t have Lyme, and so they just would keep walking. Nobody even knew. Why would I go to a conference in Texas? And I’m trying to say, no, guys, it’s everywhere. Dr. Deb 21:24Yeah. David Jernigan 21:24And… and everybody, you know, yes, you probably have this, you know, kind of thing. If you’re… if you… are chronically ill, almost, of any kind of way. You know, kind of trying to tell people this was… Again, in Robin’s pathology textbooks, one of the few things that it did tell you about Lyme was that it was called the Great… the New Great Imitator. Because it would imitate up to 200 or more different illnesses. So, it’s been an interesting journey, of… educating people, writing articles, but it was interesting, the lady who I first fixed, Laboratory verified, everything like that, symptoms went away, all that kind of fun stuff. Her children were fine, they’ve been fine for years now. When she went on the newsboards in the Lyme disease support groups, It created a war. Oh my goodness, it was like, how dare you? And, say that something natural might actually help, right? Dr. Deb 22:30Right, exactly. David Jernigan 22:32And, I even had… A… one of those first calls to… with a marketing company at one point, way a long time ago. And the lady got on the phone, the owner of the marketing company goes, I would have blood on my hands if I actually took your clinic on. Yeah, you can’t treat Lyme disease, and… Even the big, big associations that are out there are still largely that way. I mean, they’re getting better, but it’s just like… you know, a lot of the times, it’s herbs are good. Herbs will help. Good, you know, but they’re safe. So, it’s still a challenge to… to… present in mainstream Lyme communities, even. Because there’s this… Fear of doing anything outside of antibiotics. Dr. Deb 23:32Yeah, so let me ask you this. From your perspective. Why do you think so many chronic infections exist these days, like Lyme and the co-infections, Babesia, Bartonella, mold illness? And we talked a little bit about herbs and why they, antibiotics and things like that fail, but let’s talk a little bit about that. David Jernigan 23:53So, it’s fascinating. When I trained in Germany, they said that we, as humanity, has moved away from what they called the inflammatory diseases. You know, in the old days, it was. Lots of high fevers, purulent, pus-generating bacterial infections. And I said, as a society, we have… Dr. Deb 24:14Have shifted from those to what they call cold sclerotic diseases, which are your… David Jernigan 24:21Cancers, your diabetes, your atherosclerosis, your… and they said, we’re starting to see what used to only be geriatric diseases in our children. That’s how bad it’s gotten. We have suppressed fevers, we don’t… we don’t respect the wisdom of the human body. So, you know, the doctors say, step aside, body, I will fix this infection for you with this antibiotic. And so, what we’ve done with the, overuse of antibiotics, and this isn’t me just talking from a natural perspective, this is… Right, it’s everybody around the world is acknowledging. I’ll show you… I could show you a, a presentation, if we can do a screen-sharing situation. Yeah. About the antibiotic situation in the world, because it’s really concerning. But what I would say, and kind of like an advancement forward, is we are seeing mutated bacteria. You know, they talked about… do you remember when they found the Iceman, you know, the… You know, the prehistoric guy that’s… In the eyes, and he had Lyme bacteria. I was like, he had spirochetes, maybe. Dr. Deb 25:33Yeah. David Jernigan 25:33That isn’t a modified, mutated version. That’s just maybe the… Lyme… you know, Borrelia… call it Borrelia something, you know, it’s a spirochete, but what we’re dealing with today. Even under strep or staph, as you know, you know, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, you name it, whatever kind of infection a person has is not the same bacteria that your grandparents dealt with. Dr. Deb 26:01That’s right. David Jernigan 26:32It’s a much mutated, stronger, more resistant to treatment type of thing. So, I think that’s one reason. I think the, It’s great that we’re seeing, you know, Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. bringing awareness to things that Like it or not, yeah, seed oils do create inflammation, and everyone in the natural realm, as you know. Has been trying to say this for probably how long? Dr. Deb 26:35Yeah, 25, 30 years. 20 years each. David Jernigan 26:48Yes. You know, thank goodness for people like Sally Fallon and her beautiful book, Nourishing Traditions, that started you know, Dr. Bernard Jensen’s books way back in the day, Dr. Christopher’s books way back in the day. Dr. Deb 26:48Damn. David Jernigan 26:49You know, all of them were way ahead of their time, saying, by the way, your margarine is only missing one ingredient from being axle grease. Dr. Deb 26:58Yeah. David Jernigan 26:58I think that was Dr. Jensen saying that at one point, probably 50, 60 years ago, I don’t know. Dr. Deb 27:03Yep. David Jernigan 27:04So, we’ve created this monster. We, we live in a very controlled environment, you know, of 72, 74 degrees at all times, we don’t sweat, we don’t have to work that hard, typically. You know, most of us aren’t out there like our ancestors were, so that’s making us more and more… Move towards the cold sclerotic diseases, of which even Lyme disease is, you know, which… Yes, it has inflammation, yes, but as a presentation, it’s very often associated with some of these Cold sclerotic diseases of mankind that we see now. Dr. Deb 27:46You have it. David Jernigan 27:47Yeah. Dr. Deb 27:48So, tell me, what is phage therapy? David Jernigan 27:52Well, may I show you a cool video? Dr. Deb 27:55Yeah, I’d love that. David Jernigan 27:56I did not make this video, this is just one of my favorites, because it’s from the National Institute of Health. Let’s see if I can just… Click the share screen thing. And get that to pop up. That’s not what I’m looking for, but it’s gonna be soon. Let’s go here… Alright, can you see that? Dr. Deb 28:18Yeah. David Jernigan 28:19Okay. Modern medicine faces a serious problem. Thanks in part to overuse and misuse of antibiotics, many bacteria are gaining resistance to our most common cures. Researchers are probing possible alternatives to antibiotics, including phages. So, bacteriophages, or we like to call them phages for short, are naturally occurring viruses that infect and kill bacteria. The basic structure consists of a head, a sheath, and tail fibers. The tail fibers are what mediate attachment to the bacterial cell. The DNA stored in the head will then travel down the sheath and be injected inside the cell. Once inside the cell, the phage will hijack the cellular machinery to make many copies of itself. Lastly, the newly assembled phages burst forth from the bacterium, which resets their phage life cycle and kills the bacterium in the process. Someday, healthcare providers may be able to treat MRSA and other stubborn bacterial infections using a mixture of phages, or a phage cocktail process would be first to identify what the pathogen is that’s causing the infection. So the bacterium is isolated and is characterized. And then there’s a need to select a phage in a process known as screening of phage that are either present in a repository or in a so-called phage library. That allows for many of the phages to be evaluated for effectiveness against that isolated I don’t know, bacterium. Phages were first discovered over 100 years ago by a French-Canadian named Felice Derrell. They initially gained popularity in Eastern Europe, however, Western countries largely abandoned phages in favor of antibiotics, which were better understood and easier to produce in large quantities. Now, with bacteria like these gaining resistance to antibiotics, phage research is gaining momentum in the United States once again. NIAID recently partnered with other government agencies to host a phage workshop, where researchers from NIH, FTA, the commercial sector, and academia gathered to discuss recent progress. NIH… So… That is… That is what phage therapy in… is. in what I call conventional phage. Let’s see, how do I get out of the share screen? Hope you already don’t see it. Dr. Deb 30:58Yep, at the top, there should just be a button. David Jernigan 31:00I don’t. Dr. Deb 31:00Stop sharing, yeah. David Jernigan 31:01So… Conventional phage therapy, as you just saw, is a lot like what it is that we’re doing, only the difference is they’re taking wild phages from the environment. They’re finding phages anywhere there’s, like, a lot of bacteria. And then they isolate those phages, and like he said, the gentleman at the very end said we put them in a library, and so there are banks of phages that they can actually now use, and One of the largest banks that I know of has about 700 different bacteriophages, or phages. In their bank that they can pull from. Dr. Deb 31:43Wow. Do you want to take a guess? David Jernigan 31:46How many bacteriophages they’ve identified are in the human gut, on average? Dr. Deb 31:52Oh my god, there’s gotta be more… David Jernigan 31:53Kinds, different kinds of phages, how many? Dr. Deb 31:56There’s gotta be millions. David Jernigan 31:57Well… In population, there’s… humongous numbers, numbers probably well beyond the trillions, okay? Hundreds of trillions, quadrillions, maybe, even. But in the gut, a recent peer-reviewed journal article said that there were 32,242 different types of bacteriophages that live naturally in your intestines, your gut. Dr. Deb 32:25Boom. David Jernigan 32:2632,000. Okay, so… If you read any article on phage therapy that’s in peer review, almost every single one in the very first paragraph, they use the same sentence. They go, Phages are ubiquitous in nature. They’re ubiquitous in nature. So my brain, when I find… when all this finally clicked together, and when we clicked together 5 years into my research, I could not get it to work for 5 years. I just kept going. But that sentence really got me going. I was, like, going, you know. If you look at what ubiquitous means, it says if Phages were the size of grains of sand. Like sand on the beach. They would completely cover the earth and be 50 miles deep. How crazy is that? Dr. Deb 33:24Wow. David Jernigan 33:25That’s how many phages are on the planet. There’s so many… they outnumber every species collectively on the planet. So, it’s an impossibility in my mind. I went, huh, it’s an impossibility that… You catching a, a sterile Bacteria, it’s almost an impossibility. Since the beginning of time, phages have been needing to use a reproductive host. And it’s very specific, so every kind of bacteria has its own kind of phage it uses as a reproductive host. Because phages are… and this is a clarification I want to make for people. just like in the old days, we were talking about the 90s, I talked to a veterinarian that had gotten in trouble with the veterinary board in her state. Dr. Deb 34:14Back in the old days. David Jernigan 34:16Because she gave dogs probiotics. And the board thought she was giving the dogs an infection so that she could treat them and make money off of the subsequent infection. Dr. Deb 34:28Oh my god. David Jernigan 34:29Nobody actually had heard of good, friendly bacteria in the veterinary world, I guess she said she had gotten in trouble, and she had to defend herself, that, no, I’m giving friendly, benevolent, beneficial bacteria. Okay, to these animals, and getting good results.So, phages… Are friendly, benevolent, beneficial viruses. That live in your body, but they only will infect a certain type of bacteria. So… What that means is if you have staff.Aureus, you know, Staphylococcus aureus bacteria. That bacteria has its own kind of phage that infects it called a staph aureus phage. E. coli has an E. coli phage. Each type of E. coli has its own phage, so Borrelia burgdurferi has its own Borrelia burgdurferi type of phage, whereas Borrelia miyamotoi alright? Or any of the other Borrelia species, or the Bartonella species, or the… you just keep going, and Moses has its own type of phage that only will infect that type of bacteria. So that’s… You know, when you realize, wow, why are we going to the environment Was my thought. Dr. Deb 35:54Yeah. David Jernigan 34:55Trying to find wild phages and put them into your body, and hopefully they go and do what you want them to do. What if we could trigger the phages themselves that live in your body to, instead of just farming that bacteria that it uses as a host, because what I mean by farming is the phages will only kill 40% of that population of bacteria a day. Dr. Deb 36:20Wow. David Jernigan 36:20And then they send out a signal to all the other phages saying, stop killing! Dr. Deb 36:24It’s like. David Jernigan 36:2560% of the bacteria population left to be breeding stock. It’s kind of like the farmer, the rancher, who… he doesn’t send his whole herd to the butcher. Dr. Deb 36:35Right. David Jernigan 36:36Just to, you know, he keeps his breeding stock. He sends the rest, right? So, the phages will kill 40% of the population every day, just in their reproduction process. Because once there’s so many, as you saw in the video, once the phage lands on top of the bacteria, injects its genetic material into the bacteria, that bacteria genetic engine starts cranking out up to 5,200 phages per bacteria. Dr. Deb 37:06I don’t know who counted all those… David Jernigan 37:08Inside of a bacteria, but some scientists peer-reviewed it and put it out there. that ruptures, and it literally looks like a grenade goes off inside of the bacteria. I wish I’d remembered to bring that video of a phage killing a bacteria, but it just goes, oof. And it’s just a cloud of dust. So, you’re breaking apart a lot of those different toxins and things. So… That’s… That was the impetus to me creating what I did. That and the fact that I looked it up, and I found out that phages will sometimes go… Crazy. I don’t know how to say it. Wiping out 100% of their host. And it could be a trigger, like change in the body’s pH levels, it could be electromagnetically done, you know, like, there’s been documentation of… I think it was, 50 Hz, electricity. Triggering one kind of phage to go… Crazy and annihilate its host population. There’s other ways, but I was, like, going, none of those fit me, you know? It’s not like I’m gonna shock somebody with a… Jumper cable or something to try to get phages to… to do that kind of thing. But the fact that it could be done, they can be triggered, they can switch and suddenly go crazy against their population. But what happens when they kill 100% of their host? The phages themselves die within 4 days. Dr. Deb 38:45Hmm. Because they can’t keep reproducing. David Jernigan 38:47There’s nothing to reproduce them, yeah. Dr. Deb 38:49Yeah. Especially… unless they’re a polyvalent phage, that means a phage that can segue and use. David Jernigan 38:54One or two other kinds of bacteria. To, as a reproductive host. But a lot of phages, if not the majority, are monovalent, which means they have one host that they like to use. And so… Borrelia, so… my study that I ended up doing, and I published the results in 2021, And it’s a small study, but it’s right in there at the high end, believe it or not, of phage research. Most phage research is less than 30 people. In the study. But, we did 26 people.And after one month of doing the phage induction that I invented, which only… Appears to only, induce or stimulate the types of phages that will do the job in your body. I don’t care what kind of phage it is. I don’t care if it’s a Borrelia phage, it may be a polyvalent phage that normally doesn’t use the Borrelia burgdurferi as its number one. Host, but it can. To go and kill that infection. And the fascinating thing is, there was a brand new test that came out at the same time I came out with the idea, literally the same weekend they presented. Dr. Deb 40:1511. David Jernigan 40:15ILADS conference in Boston in 2019. It was called the Felix Borrelia phage Test. So the Felix Borrelia phage test. Because Borrelia are often intracellular, right, they’re buried down in the tissue, they’re not often in the blood that much. And therefore, doing a blood test isn’t really that accurate. But you remember how there’s, like, potentially as many as 5,200 phages of that type erupt from each bacteria when it breaks apart. It’s way easier to detect those phages, because they’re now circulating, those 52, as you saw in the video. 5,200 different phages are now seeking out another Borrelia that they can infect. And so, while they’re out in circulation, that’s easy to find in the bloodstream. So, 77% of the people, so 20 out of 26, were tested after a 2-week period. After only a 4-day round of treatment. Because according to my testing, remember, I can actually test adjunctively to see if I can find any signatures for those kinds of bacteria. And I couldn’t after 4 days, so we discontinued treatment and waited Beyond the 4 days that would allow the phages themselves to die, so we waited about a week and a half.And redid the test. And 77%, so that 20 out of 26 of the people, were completely negative. Dr. Deb 41:50Wow. David Jernigan 41:52Which, you go, well, it’s just a blood test. Well, no, we actually had people that were getting better, like, they’d never gotten better before. We had one woman who was wheelchair-bound, and in two weeks was able to walk, and even ultimately wanted to work for my clinic. I’m just, like, going… Dr. Deb 42:07I didn’t want to write about all that. I wanted to write about the phages. I was like… David Jernigan 42:12article, I probably should have put some of those stories, because, Critics would say, well, you got rid of the infection, maybe, but… Did you fix the Lyme disease? Well, that’s… there’s two factors here that every doctor needs to understand. There’s the infection in chronic illness, there’s the infection, and then there’s the damage that’s been done. Because sometimes I have these people that would come in and say, well, Dr. Jernigan, it didn’t work for me, I’m still in the wheelchair. And I’m like, no, it worked. Repeat lab test over months says it’s gone, it’s gone, it’s gone. It’s like, we would follow, and 88% of the people we followed long-term were still negative, which is amazing to me. Dr. Deb 42:56And then they have to repair the damage. David Jernigan 42:59It’s the damages why you still have your symptoms. And that’s where the doctor has to get busy, right? Dr. Deb 43:06Right David Jernigan 43:06They were told erroneously by their doctor that originally treated them that they’d be well, they’d get out of the wheelchair, if he could actually kill all these infections. Dr. Deb 43:15It’s not true. David Jernigan 43:16Unless it’s caught early. So I love the analogy, and I’ve said it a thousand times.that Lyme disease and chronic infections are much like having termites in the wood of your house. If you find the termites early, then yeah, killing the infection, life goes back to normal, the storm comes and your house doesn’t fall down. But if it’s 20 years later. Killing the termites is still a grand idea. Right. But you have the damage in the wood that needs to be repaired as well. All the systems… when I talk about damage to the wood, I mean, like. All the bioregulatory aspects of the body, how it regulates itself, all the biochemical pathways, the metabolic pathways we all know about, getting the toxins that have been lodged in there for many years, stopping the inflammatory things that have been running crazy. Dealing with all those cytokines that are just running rampant through the body, creating this whole MCAS situation. Which are largely… Dr. Deb 44:21Coming from your body’s own immune cells called macrophages, which are not even… David Jernigan 44:26It’s not… a virus at all, it’s part of the immune system, it’s like a Pac-Man, and research shows that especially in spirochetes. There is no toxin. Now, I wrote 4 books. I think I wrote the very first book on the natural treatment of people with Lyme disease back in the 90s. Why did I write that? Not because I wanted to be famous, it’s a tiny book, actually, the first one was.I was just trying to help people get out of this idea that you will be well when you kill all the bugs. I was saying, it’s… you need to be doing this. If you can’t come to my clinic, at least do this. Try to find somebody that will do this for you. And that ultimately led to a bigger book.as I kept learning more, and I was like, going, well, okay, now at least do this amount of stuff. And you need to make sure your doctor is handling this, this, this, and this. And so, the third book was, like, 500 and something pages long. And then the fourth book was 500 and something pages long, and now they’re all obsolete with the whole phage thing, because this just rewrites everything. Dr. Deb 45:34Yeah. David Jernigan 45:34It’s pretty fascinating. Dr. Deb 45:37Do you think the war on bugs, mentality created more chronic illness than it solved? David Jernigan 45:44Because of the tools that doctors had to use, yes. We’re a minority, we’re still a minority, you and I. Dr. Deb 45:54Yep. Our doctoring… David Jernigan 45:56Methods I never had, and you’d never… maybe you did, but I’d never had the ability to grab a prescription pad and write out a prescription. I had to figure out, how do I get… and this was… and still my guiding thing, is like, how do I identify, number one, everything that can be found that’s gone wrong in the human body. And what do I need to provide that body? Like, the body is the carpenter. That has to do the repair, has to regenerate, has to do everything, has to get… everything fixed right? We can’t fix anything. If you have a paper cut, there isn’t a doctor on the planet that can make that go away. Dr. Deb 46:38Right. David Jernigan 46:39Of their own power, much less chronic illnesses. So, all the treatments are like the screws, saws, hammers, you know the carpenter must be able to use. So a lot of the time, doctors are just throwing an entire Home Depot on top of the carpenter. In the form of, like, bags of supplements, you know, hundreds of supplements, I’ve seen patients walk in my door with two suitcasefuls. And they were taking 70 bottles, 65 to 70 bottles of supplements, and I’d be just like, wow, your carpenter who’s been working for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. He’s exhausted. There’s chaos everywhere, you don’t know where to. Dr. Deb 47:22Starting. David Jernigan 47:22He goes, you want me to do what with all this stuff? Dr. Deb 47:25Yep, I’ve seen the same thing. People… thousands, you know, several thousand dollars a month on supplements, and not any better. But they’re afraid to give up their supplements, too, because they don’t want to go backwards, either, and… there’s got to be a better way on both sides, the conventional side and the alternative side, although you and I don’t say it’s alternative, that’s the way medicine should be, but… David Jernigan 47:48Right. Dr. Deb 47:49We have to have a good balance on both sides. David Jernigan 47:52And I will say, too, in defense of doctors using a lot of supplements, I do use a lot of supplements. Dr. Deb 47:57Yeah, I do too. David Jernigan 47:58but I want to synergize what I’m giving the patient so that the carpenter isn’t overwhelmed and can actually get the job done. Like, everything has to work harmoniously together, so it’s not that… It’s not the number of supplements, and why would you need a lot of supplements? Well, because every system in your body is Messed up. My kind of clientele for 30 years. Our clientele, yours and mine. Dr. Deb 48:25Yeah. David Jernigan 48:26They have been sick, For decades, many of them. Dr. Deb 48:31Yeah. David Jernigan 48:31And if they went into a hospital, they honestly need every department. They need endocrinology, they need their kidney doctor, they need their… They’re a cardiologists, they need a neurologist, they need a rheumatologist. I mean, because none of those doctors are gonna deal with everything. They’re just gonna deal with one piece of the puzzle. And if they did get the benefit of all the different departments they need, yeah, they’d go out with a garbage bag full of stuff, too. Dr. Deb 48:57Hey, wood. David Jernigan 48:58Only, they’re not synergized. They don’t work together. You’re creating this chemistry set of who knows how much poison. And I want to tell your listeners, and I mean, you probably say this to your patients as well. There is a law of pharmacy that I learned eons ago, and it applies to natural medicine, too. Dr. Deb 49:21Yep. David Jernigan 49:22But the law says every drug’s primary side effect Is its primary action. So, if you listen to TV, you can see this on commercials. I love… I love listening to these commercials, because I’m like, wow. let’s… let’s… I don’t want to say I’ve named Brandon. I don’t know if that’s…Inappropriate to name a name brand, but let’s just say you have a pharmaceutical that is for sleep. After they show you this beautiful scene of the person restfully sleeping and everything like that, they tell you the truth. It’s like, this may cause sleepiness… I mean, sleeplessness. Dr. Deb 50:04Yeah. David Jernigan 50:04Found insomnia. Dr. Deb 50:06And headaches, and diarrhea. David Jernigan 50:08All the other things, and if it’s an antidepressant, what does the commercial do after it finishes showing you little bunny foo-foo, jumping through a green, happy people? They tell you, this may create depression, severe depression, and suicidal tendencies, which is the ultimate depression. So, I want everyone to understand you need to figure out what your doctor’s tools are that they’re asking you to take, and they’re wanting you to take it forever, generally in mainstream medicine, right? In the hospitals and everything. They don’t say, hey, your heart has this condition, take this medicine for 3 months, after which time you can get off. Dr. Deb 50:48Yep. David Jernigan 50:49not fixing it, right? So… That, on a timeline, there is a point, if it was truly even fixing anything. That you… it’s done what it should do, and you should get off, even if it’s a natural product. It’s just like. Dr. Deb 51:03Right David Jernigan 51:03It’s done what it should do, and you should get off, but instead. you go through the tree… the correction and out the other side, and that’s where it starts manifesting a lot of the same problems that it had. So, anti-inflammatories, painkillers, imagine the number one side effects are pain inflammation. So, the doctor says, well. If you say, hey, I’m having more pain, what does he do? He ups the dosage. And if he… if that doesn’t work, if you’re still in a lot of pain, which he would be, he changes it to a more powerful thing, right? But it starts the cycle all over again. So when you ask me, it’s like, why are we having so much chronic illness? It’s because of the whole philosophy. is the treatment philosophy of mainstream medicine that despises what you and I do. Because we’re… our philosophy from the start is the biggest thing. It’s like… We’re striving for cure. That dirty four-letter word, cure, we’re not even supposed to use it. And yet, if you look it up in Stedman’s Medical Dictionary, it just means a restoration of health. Remission. Everyone’s like, oh, I’m in remission. I’m like, remission is a drug term. It’s a medical term. Again, look it up in a medical dictionary. It is a pharmaceutical term for a temporary pause Or a reduction of your symptom, but because it’s just… symptom suppression, it will come back. It’s… remission is great, I suppose, in… At the end of, like, where you’ve exhausted everything, because I can’t fix everything, I don’t know about you. Dr. Deb 52:41No, I can’t either, yeah. David Jernigan 52:43you know, on my phone consults, I try to always remind people, as much as I get excited about my technologies gosh, I see so much opportunity to fix you. I always try to go, please understand, I’m gonna tell you what most doctors may not tell you on a phone consultation. I can’t fix everything. Dr. Deb 53:03Yeah. David Jernigan 53:03For all of my tricks, I can’t fix everything. Not tricks, but you know, all my technologies, and all my inventions. Phages, too. They are a tool. You know, antibiotics. I think I wrote a blog one time, it should be on my website somewhere, that says, Antibiotics do not… fix… neurological disease, or… I don’t know, something like that. You know, you’re using the wrong tool. I mean, it does what it does. Dr. Deb 53:32Yeah, you’re using a hammer to do what a screwdriver needs to. David Jernigan 53:35Yeah, you know, it’s like it’s… And yet, you can probably tell her… that you’ve had patients, too, that they go, Dr. Jernigan. My throat was so sore, and as soon as I swallowed that antibiotic. I felt better, and I’m, like, going… How long did it take? Oh, it was immediate! I was like, dude, the gel cap didn’t even have time to dissolve, I mean… Dr. Deb 53:58SIBO. David Jernigan 54:00But, it’s not going to repair the tissues that were all raw. kind of stuff. So, I mean, that ulceration of your throat that’s happening, the inflammation, there’s no anti-inflammatory effect of these things. So, I digress a little bit, but phages, too… I wrote an article that’s on the website, that’s setting healthy expectations for phages, because they want… we can see some amazing things happen, things that in my 30 years, I wish I had all my career to do over again, now having this tool. It’s just that much fun. I… when doctors around the country now are starting to use our inducent formulas, there’s, 13 of them now, formulas. For different broad-spectrum illness presentations. I tell them all the same thing, I was like, you are gonna have so much fun. Dr. Deb 54:53That’s exciting. Women. David Jernigan 54:54Winning is fun, you know? I was like. You know, mainstream medicine may never accept this, I don’t know. I feel a real huge burden, though, to do my best to follow a, very scientific methodology. I’ve published as much as I can publish at this time by myself. I never took money from the… the sources that are out there, because what do they do? They always come… money comes with strings. Dr. Deb 55:22Yes, it does. David Jernigan 55:23I don’t trust… I don’t trust… I mean, if you listen to the, roundtable that Our Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Dr. Deb 55:35Yeah. David Jernigan 55:36On Lyme disease last week the first couple of speakers were, like, pretty legit. I mean, all of them were legit, but I mean, they were, like, senators and congressmen or something like that, I think. And then you have… RFK Jr. himself, who’s legit. Yeah they were fessing up to the fact that, yes, they were suppressing anything to do with Lyme. Dr. Deb 56:00Yeah. David Jernigan 56:00Our… our highest levels of, marbled halls and pillars and… of medicine were doing everything the way I thought they were. They were suppressing me. I was like, how can you ignore the best formulas ever, and still, I think Borreligen, and now, induced native phage therapy are still, I believe, I don’t… I’ve never seen it, I could be wrong. The only natural things that have been documented in a medical methodology. Dr. Deb 56:34Hmm in the natural realm. I mean, all the herbs that we talk about. David Jernigan 56:39You know, there’s one that was really famous for a while, and it said, we gave… so many patients. This product, and other nutritional supplements. And at the end, X number of them were… dramatically better. That’s not research. Dr. Deb 56:57Right. That’s observation. David Jernigan 56:59The trick there was we gave this one thing, and then we gave high-dose proteolytic enzymes, we gave high dose this, we gave high dose that, but at the end of the study, we’re going to point back at the thing we’re trying to sell you as being what did it. Dr. Deb 57:12Which is what we do in all research, pretty much. David Jernigan 57:15Well… Dr. Deb 57:16tried to… David Jernigan 57:17Good guys, I hope. Dr. Deb 57:18Do the way we want, right? In… in conventional… David Jernigan 57:22Yeah. Dr. Deb 57:22Fantastic David Jernigan 57:23Very often, yeah, in conventional medicine, definitely. Yeah. And, it’s kind of scary, isn’t it, how many pharmaceuticals are slamming us with, because they’re… Dr. Deb 57:33Okay. David Jernigan 57:34There’s a new one on TV every day, and there’s. Dr. Deb 57:36Every day, yes. David Jernigan 57:37It’s like, who comes up with these names? They’re just horrible. Dr. Deb 57:40Yeah, you can’t pronounce them. David Jernigan 57:41I want to be a marketing company and come up with some Zimbabwehika, or something that actually they go with, and I’m like, I just made a million bucks coming up with it. I’ll be glad when that’s not on the TV anymore, which… Oh, me too. Me too. Dr. Deb 57:54Dr. Jaredgen, this was really wonderful. What do you want to leave our listeners with? David Jernigan 58:00Well, you know, everyone’s calling for a new treatment. Dr. Deb 58:05Yeah. You bet. David Jernigan 58:08I have done everything I can do to get it out there, scientifically, in peer review, so that if you want to look up my name. Dr. Deb 58:16I published an open access journal so that you didn’t have to buy the articles. Like, PubMed, you have to be a member. If you want to look at a lot of the research, you have to buy the articles. David Jernigan 58:26I’ve done everything open access so that people had access to the information. I honestly created induced native phage therapy to fix my own wife. I mean, I… I was… I used to think I could actually fix almost anything. Gave me enough time. And, I could not fix her. You know, the first 10 years, she was bedridden. Dr. Deb 58:49Wow. David Jernigan 58:50People go, oh, it’s easy for you, Dr. Jernigan, you’re a doctor. Dr. Deb 58:54Oh yeah, right? Yeah. David Jernigan 58:56Oh my gosh, how many tears have been shed, and how much heartache, and how much of this and that. I mean, 90% of our marriage, she was in, bed, just missing Christmas. All the horror stories you hear in the Lime world, that was her, and I could not get her completely well. And, she’s a very discerning woman. I say that in all my podcasts, because it’s. Dr. Deb 59:19Just… David Jernigan 59:16Amazing. It’s like, every husband, I think, should want a wife that’s… Always, right? Not that you surrender your own opinion, but it’s like, it’s… it was literally, I don’t know what, 6 months before the ILADS conference in Boston in 2029… in 2019 that She said, are you going to the ILADS conference this year? And I’m like, I’ve been going for, like, 15, 20 years, however long it’s been going on, and I was like, I’m not gonna go to this one. And, 3 days before the conference, she says, I think you should go. And I go, okay. Like I say, she’s generally right. And that… I bought a Scientific American magazine at the newsstand in the Nashville airport. Started reading a story about phages in that that copped that edition of the Scientific American, and It was a good article, but it wasn’t super meaty, you know. very deep on those, but I just was stimulated. Something about being at elevation. Dr. Deb 1:00:02Yeah. Your own mountains, I don’t know, I get all inspired. David Jernigan 1:00:25And I wrote in the margins and highlighted this and that until it was, like, ultimately, I spent the entire conference hammering this out. And it worked. And it’s been working, it’s just amazing. It’s… We’re over 200 different infections that we’ve… we’ve clinically or laboratory-wise documented. There’s a new test for my GenX called the CEPCR Lyme Panel. like, culture. 64 different types of infections, and I believe right now the latest count is something like 10 for 10 were completely negative. Dr. Deb 1:01:03Wow. David Jernigan 1:01:03These chronically infected people. And so, that hadn’t been published anywhere. So, in my published article, remember I was talking about that 20 out of the 26 were tested as negative for the infection? That doesn’t mean they’re cured, okay? Remember, they’re chronically damaged. That’s how we need to look at it. Dr. Deb 1:01:23funny David Jernigan 1:01:24damaged. You’re not just chronically infected. And, but with 30-day treatment.24 out of the 26 were tested as negative. Dr. Deb Muth 1:01:34That’s amazing. David Jernigan 1:01:35So 92% of the people were negative.Okay? The chances of that happening, when you run it through statistical analysis.The chances… when you compare the results to the sensitivity percentages, you know, the 100% specificity and 92% sensitivity of the…Of the lab testIt’s a 4.5 nonillion to 1 chance that it was a fluke. Isn’t that amazing? Now, nearly… I’m not even sure how many zeros that is, but it’s a lot. Dr. Deb Muth 1:02:08That’s is awesome. David Jernigan 1:02:09Like, if I just said, well, it’s a one in a million chance it was a fluke.Okay.So, lab tests don’t lie. You’re not done, necessarily, just because you got rid of the infections. Now that formula for Lyme has grown to be 90-plusmicrobes targeted in the one formula. So, we figured out we can actually target individually, but collectively, almost like an antibiotic that’s laser-guided to only go after the bad guys that we targeted.So, all the Borrelia types are targeted, all the Babesias, for,the Bartonellas, the anaplasmosis, you name it, mycoplasma types are all targeted in that one formula, because I said.Took my collective 30 years of experience and 15,000 patients.that I would typically see as co-infections and put them into that one formula, so…When we get these tests coming back that are testing for 64, it’s because of that.So, there’s a lot of coolnesses that I could actually keep going and going. Dr. Deb Muth 1:03:15That’s exciting. David Jernigan 1:03:15I love this topic, but I thank you for letting me come on. Dr. Deb Muth 1:03:18Thank you for joining us. How can people find you? David Jernigan 1:03:22Two ways. There’s the Phagen Corp company that is now manufacturing my formulas.That is P-H-A-G-E-N-C-O-R-P dot com. Practitioners can go there, and there’s a practitioner side of the website that’s very beefy with science, and… and all the formulas that were used, what’s inside of all the formulas, meaning what microbes are targeted by each one. Like, there’s a GI formula, there’s a UTI formula, there’s a SIRS formula, there’s a Lyme formula, there’s a central nervous system type infection formula, there’s… And we can keep going, you know, SIBO, SIFO formula, mold formula… I mean, we’ve discovered so many things that I could just keep going for hours, and… Dr. Deb Muth 1:04:05Yeah. David Jernigan 1:04:06About the discoveries, from where it started in its humble beginnings, To now, so… There’s another way, if you wanted to see our clinic website, is Biologics, with an X, so B-I-O-L-O-G-I-X, Center, C-E-N-T-E-R dot com. And, if somebody thinks they want to be a patient and experience this at our clinic, typically we don’t take just Easy stuff. All we see is chronic.Chronic cases from all over the world. Something like 96% of our patients come from other states and countries. And typically, I’ve been close to 90% for my whole career.About 30-something percent come from other countries in that, so… we’ve gotten really good and learned a lot in having to deal with what nobody else knows what to do with. But if you do want to do that, you can contact us. And, if you… If you don’t get the answers from my patient care staff, then I do free consultations. With the people that are thinking about, whether we can help them or not. Dr. Deb Muth 1:05:13Well, that’s excellent. For those of you who are driving or don’t have any way of writing things down, don’t worry about it, we’ve got you. We will have all of his contact information in our show notes, so you will be able to reach out to him. Thank you again for joining me. This has been an amazing conversation. David Jernigan 1:05:30Thank you, I appreciate you having me on. It was a lot of fun. The post Episode 252 – Induced Native Phage Therapy (INPT) & advanced natural therapies first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb 0:01Welcome back to another episode of Let’s Talk Wellness Now, and I’m your host, Dr. Deb, and today we’re pulling back the curtain on a topic that barely gets a whisper in conventional medicine. Chronic bladder symptoms, biofilms, and the hidden genetic drivers that keep so many women stuck in a cycle of pain, urgency, and infection that never truly resolves. My guest today is someone who is not only brilliant, but battle-tested, like myself. Dr. Kristen Ryman is a physician, a mom, and the author of Life After Lyme, a book and blueprint that has helped countless people reclaim health after complex chronic illness. After healing herself from advanced Lyme, she has spent her career helping patients recover their most vibrant, resilient selves through her Inner Flow program. Her Healing Grove podcast, her membership community, and her deep dive work on bladder biofilms and stealth pathogens. And what I love about Kristen is that she teaches from lived experience. In 2022, she suffered a stroke. And not only survived it, but rebuilt her brain, resolved lateral strabismus, restored balance, and regained her ability to multitask That journey uncovered her own genetic predisposition to clotting, the very same patterns she sees in her chronic bladder patients. And that personal revelation ultimately led to her Introducing this groundbreaking work that we’re talking about today. So let’s get into it, because bladder biofilms, clotting genetics, stealth pathogens, and real recovery is the conversation women have been needing for decades. And we’ll get started. Where did this one go? There we go. Alright, so welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now. I have Dr. Kristen with me, and I am so excited to talk to her for multiple reasons. A, she’s got a fabulous story, and B, she’s an expert in a topic that nobody’s talking about, and I want to learn from her, too. So, welcome to the show. Kristin Reihman 3:07Thank you! I’m so happy to be here, Dr. Deb. Dr. Deb 3:10Thank you. Well, let’s dive right in, because we have so much to talk about, and you and I could probably talk for hours. So, let’s dive into this conversation, and tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got involved in this. Kristin Reihman 3:23Well, I mean, like so many people, I think, on this path, I had, had to learn it the hard way. You know, I had to find my way into a mystery illness, a complex, mysterious set of symptoms that sort of didn’t fit the… the sort of description of what, you know, normal doctors do, and even though I was a normal doctor for many years, nothing I’d been trained in could help me when I was really debilitated from Lyme disease back in 2011, 20212, 2023. And so I kind of had to crawl my way out of that, using all the resources at my disposal, which, you know, started out with a lot of ILADS stuff, you know, a lot of the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society, resources online, found some Lyme doctors, and then my journey really quickly evolved to sort of, like, way far afield of normal Western medicine, which is what my training is in you know, I think within a year of my diagnosis, I was, like, you know, at a Klingheart conference, and learning all sort of, you know, the naturopathic approach to Lyme, and really trying to heal my body and terrain, and heal the process that had led me to become so, so ill from, you know. A little bacteria. Dr. Deb 4:29Yeah. Yeah, same here. Like, I’ve been an ILADS practitioner for over 20 years, and when I got sick with Lyme, I was like… how did I not realize this? And I knew I had Lyme before I even was ILADS trained, but when I got really sick and got diagnosed with MS, I never thought about Lyme or mycotoxins or any of that, because I was too busy, head down, doing what I’m doing, helping people. And I, too, had to take that step back, not just physically, but more spiritually and emotionally, and say, how did my body get this sick? Like, what was I doing, and what was I not doing? That allowed this to happen, and now look at this from a healing aspect of not just the physical side, but that spiritual-emotional side as well. Kristin Reihman 5:13Totally. I have the same… I have the same realization as I was coming out of it. I was like, wow, this wasn’t just about, sort of, physically what I was doing and not doing. There was something spiritual here as well for me, and I… I feel like it really was a wake-up call for me to get on the path that I’m supposed to be on, the path that I’m on now, really, which is stepping away from the whole medicine matrix model and moving into, you know, working with really complex people. Listening to their bodies, understanding intuition, understanding energy, understanding all these different pieces that doctors just aren’t trained to look at. Dr. Deb 5:46Right? We don’t have time to learn everything, right? Like, you have time to learn the body and the medical side of things, and that’s a whole prism of itself, but then learning the spiritual energy medicine, that’s a completely different paradigm. That’s a full-time learning aspect, and it’s so different than what we learn in conventional medicine. Kristin Reihman 6:04Yeah, it’s a complete health system. Like, it’s a complete healthcare system. Dr. Deb 6:10Yes, and nobody takes it that seriously, but I, for myself, I’ve been spiritual healing for decades, and it wasn’t until I got really sick that I dived deeper into that and looked at what is it in this world that I’m owning, what belongs to generational things that were brought to me from childbirth and other generations in my family that I’m carrying their old wounds. And how do I clear some of that so that it’s not still following me? And then how do I help my kids so that they don’t have to carry what I brought forth? And it’s just… a lot of people, that may sound crazy, but that’s the kind of stuff that we need to be looking at if we want to truly heal. Kristin Reihman 6:54Yeah, and I think it’s also, it’s inspiring, you know, because when people… and I would tell this to my patients with Lyme and these sort of mystery illnesses, like, look, you are on this path for a reason, and this is going to teach you so much that you didn’t necessarily want to learn, but you need to learn. And this… nothing that you learn or change about your lifestyle or the way in which you move through the world is gonna make you a worse person. Like, it’s only gonna sort of up-level you. You know, it’s gonna up-level your diet, and your sleep habits, and your relationships, and your toxic thinking, like, it’s all gonna change for you to get better, and that’s… that’s a gift, really. Dr. Deb 7:27It really is, and I tell people the same thing. Like, we can look at this as… something that’s happening to us, or we can look at this as something that’s happening for us. And that’s how I looked at my MS diagnosis. This was happening for me, not to me. I wasn’t going to be the victim. And you have a very similar story, so tell us a little bit about your story and what kind of catapulted you into this in 2022. Kristin Reihman 7:52Well, by 2022, I was, like, 10 years out of my Lyme hole, and I had been seeing patients, you know, I had opened my own practice, and I was working for another company, seeing, families who have brain-injured children. I was their medical director, still am, actually. And so I was doing a patchwork of things, all of which really fed my soul. You know, all of which felt like this is, like, me, aligned with my purpose on the planet. And so, based on a lot of my thinking, I sort of figured, okay, well, I’m good now, right? Like, I’m on my path now, like, the universe is not going to send another 2×4. And then the universe sent another 2×4. And in 2022, I had an elective neck surgery. You kind of still see the little scar here for my two-level ACDF. Because I had crazy off-the-hook arm pain for, like, a year and a half that I just finally became, like, almost like it felt like I was developing fasciculations and fiery, fiery pain, and I just got the surgery, and the pain went away. But when I woke up, I was different. I didn’t have a voice. Which is a common side effect, actually, of that surgery that resolves after a few months, and in many cases, and mine did. But I also didn’t have, normal balance anymore, and my right eye turned out a little bit, and I couldn’t multitask. And my job is all about multitasking. As you know, with very complex people in front of you, you’re hearing all these pieces of their story, and you’re kind of categorizing it, and thinking about where they fit, and you’re making a plan for what to work up, and you’re making a plan for what to wait until next time. It’s like all these pieces, right? You’re in the matrix. And I… I couldn’t hold those pieces anymore. And I didn’t realize that until I went back to work a couple months after my, surgery, because my voice came back and was like, okay, well, now I’m going back to work. And then I realized, I can’t do simple math. In fact, I can’t remember what this person just said to me, unless I read my note, and I can’t remember taking that note. What is going on? And so I had a full workup, and indeed, I had some neurological deficits that didn’t show up on an MRI, so they must have been quite tiny. Possibly were even low-flow, you know, episodes during my surgery when my blood pressure drops really low with the medicines that you’re on for surgery. But I, basically had, like, a few mini strokes, and needed to recover from that. So that was sort of the… that was the 2×4 in 2022. Dr. Deb 10:09Wow. So, what are, what are some of the things that you learned during that process of that mini-stroke? Kristin Reihman 10:17Well, the first thing I learned is that, something that I already knew from working with the Family Hope Center, which is that organization I mentioned that helps families heal their kids’ brains, I know that motivation lives in the ponds, and if you have a ding or a hit to the ponds, like, you don’t want to get out of bed in the morning, you don’t want to do the work it takes to heal your brain, in my case. And I remember spending several months in the fall of 2022 just sort of walking around my yard. With my puppies, being like, This is enough. I don’t really need to work anymore, right? Like, I don’t… why do I need my brain back? Like, I don’t need to have my brain back to enjoy life. You know, I’ll have a garden, I have people I love and who love me, like, why do I need to work? Like, my whole, like, passion, purpose-driven mentality and motivation to kind of do and be all the things I always strive to do and be in the world, was, like, gone. It was really interesting, slash very alarming to those who knew me, but being inside the brain that wasn’t really working, it wasn’t alarming to me. I was just sort of like, oh, ho-hum, this is my new me.Well, luckily I have some people around me, I like to call them my healing team, who sort of held up a mirror, and they’re like, this is not you, and we’re gonna take you to a functional neurologist now. And so, I ended up seeing a functional neurologist who, you know, within… within, like probably 6 visits. I had all these, like, stacked visits with him. Within 6 visits, my brain just turned on. I was like, oh! Right! I need my brain back! I gotta fix this eyesight, I gotta get my balance back, and I gotta learn how to do simple math again and multitask. So, after that sort of jumpstart, I actually did the program that I, you know, know very well inside and out from the Family Hope Center, where I’d been medical director for 10 years. And, it’s a hard program, it’s not… not for wimps, and it’s certainly… I wasn’t about to do it when I had no motivation, so I’m really grateful to the functional neurologist who helped me kind of, like get my brain… get my pawns back, and my motivation back, my mojo. And then I’m really grateful to the Family Hope Center, because if I didn’t have that set of tools in my back pocket, I would still have an eye that turns out to the side, I would still have a positive Romberg, you know, closing my eyes, falling over backwards, and I would still have, a lot of trouble seeing patients, and probably wouldn’t be working anymore. Dr. Deb 12:32I can totally relate to that. When I got my MS diagnosis, you know, there’s a period of time where you go, okay reality kicks in, and I’m thinking, okay, how long am I going to be able to work? How long am I going to be able to play with my kids and my grandkids and be able to be me? And I started looking at, how do I sell my practice, just in case I need to do this? How do I step back? And I spent probably about 9 or 10 months in that place of, this is gonna be my life, and it’s not gonna be what I’m used to, and, you know, how are we gonna redesign my house, and do this, and that, and… Finally, my husband looked at me one day, and he’s like, what the hell is wrong with you? And I was like, what are you talking about? He’s like, this is ridiculous. He’s like, you fix everybody else. He’s like you can fix yourself. Why do you think you can’t fix yourself, or you don’t know the people that can fix you? You need to get out of this, and pick yourself up, and start doing what you tell your patients. And… and I sat there, and at first I was like just did he know that I’m sick? Like, I have MS. I took that victim mode for a little bit, and then I went, no, he’s right. Like, this is my wake-up call to say, I can reverse this, I can fix this, and total, total turnaround, too. Like, I started reaching out to my friends and colleagues, because I kept myself in this huge bubble, like, I didn’t want anyone to know what was going on with me, because I was afraid my patients wouldn’t see me, what are my staff going to say? My staff are going to leave, and if I lose my business, what am I going to do? And da-da-da-da, all those fears. And then… when I finally started opening up and sharing with people, people started bringing me other people, and you need to talk to this person, you need to talk to this person. They connected me here and there, and this place, and 18 months later, I was totally back to normal again. And now my practice is growing, and we’re adding on, and it’s bigger, and I’m taking on more projects than I feel like myself, and… and I was a lot like you, too. Like, I couldn’t remember my protocols that I’ve done for 20 years. I had to depend on what was in the EHR to pull forward, because I always had them in my notes, so I didn’t have to type them all the time, but I was like I have to pull that forward, because I don’t remember the name of the supplement that I’ve used for 15 years. I don’t remember what laps I’m ordering. I don’t remember the normal values of this stuff. And now it’s back on the tip of my tongue, but at the time, it was a little scary, for sure. Kristin Reihman 14:47Wow, so scary. Well, that’s a remarkable story, and why I can’t wait to have you on my podcast, but I’m really… I’m really happy that you had a healing team around you, too, who was like, yeah, nope, that’s not your… that’s not the train we’re on. Get off that train. Come back on your usual train. What are you doing over there? Dr. Deb 15:03Yeah, and you know, I hope that a lot of patients have that, or people that are experiencing this have that, but there’s so many people who don’t have that. And they need somebody, they need somebody in their corner, like we had in our corners, to help pick them up and say, this doesn’t have to be your reality. It can change, but it is a lot of work, like you said. It’s a lot of work. It’s not… Kristin Reihman 15:25Yeah, no, it’s a lot of work. So when I started off. I was work… I was doing probably 4 hours a morning, like, 4… basically, my entire morning was devoted to brain training and healing my brain through the ref… you know, we… I mean, I can get into the details of it, but basically it’s a lot of, like, crawling on the floor. On your belly, creeping on your hands and knees, doing reflex bags to stimulate, you know, more blood flow to the brain, doing a lot of smells. You know, and just staying with it, you know? And I remember balking, even in the beginning, I was, like, seeing some changes, I was feeling more motivated. I remember feeling this… I started noticing it was changing about 2 weeks in, when I would get up in the morning. And I would… I noticed I would start… I would do my, like, beginnings of the day, I would get the kids on the bus, I would do everyone’s breakfast, I’d do the dishes, and I’d be, like, sitting down and being like, hmm, like, what am I supposed to be doing now? Like, where… What is my purpose today? And because I had this plan, I was just like, well, I know that has to happen, so I may as well do that now. And I would get on the floor, and I would start crawling down the length of our hallway. And within about 8 laps, I would feel my brain, like. I felt like it integrating. I would feel things, like, just coming online, and I’d be like, oh, right. I know who I am, I know what I’m doing today, I have these other things this afternoon, I gotta get this done before noon, and I would do it. But it was really interesting, and I’ve never been a coffee drinker, but when I thought of what that felt like, to me, that’s how people often describe, like, my brain doesn’t wake up until I have coffee. I never needed coffee to have… my brain woke up before I’d wake up, and I’d be like, bing, and I’m ready to go. But when I had the brain injury for those 9 months, it wasn’t that way the whole time. In the beginning, it was very hard to get my brain back in the morning, and it was creeping and crawling that would pull it in. Dr. Deb 17:08Wow. Is there one particular thing that you did that you felt made the biggest difference to rebuilding your brain? Kristin Reihman 17:15Crawling on my belly like a commando, wearing elbow pads, knee pads, actually two sets of knee pads, wearing toe shoes, and just ripping laps on my floor. Dr. Deb 17:26Oh, and that’s so simple to do. So why does that work? Kristin Reihman 17:31So interesting, and I… this is the kind of… this is the… the story of this is something that I think is bigger than all of us, and I wish everybody knew how to optimize your brain using just the simple hallway in your house. But essentially, if you take a newborn baby. And you put them on mom’s belly, and they’re neurologically intact, and maybe you’ve seen videos of this. There used to be a video circulating about a baby born onto mom’s belly, nobody touches the baby, and in about 2 minutes and 34 seconds, that baby crawls on its belly, like, uses arms, uses its toe dig with its little babinsky, and pushes its way up to mom’s breast. Latches on with its reflexes, and there you go. That baby keeps itself alive through its primitive reflexes. So it’s essentially telling its brain, every time it runs those reflexes, every time it does a little toe dig, every time it, like, swings its arm across in a cross-later, hetero… what do we call, a homolateral pattern. That little baby is getting a message to its brain that says, grow and heal and organize. And because all the reflexes come out of the middle and lower brain stem. That’s the part of the brain that’s organizing as a baby. And as a baby grows and does the various things a baby does using its reflexes, like eventually on its belly, crawling across the floor, and then popping up to hands and knees, and creeping across the floor, and eventually standing and walking, all of those things are invoking a different set of reflexes that tell the brain to grow and heal and organize. So it’s almost like the function creates the structure, and if you run those pathways again and again and again your brain will get the message to basically invoke its own neuroplasticity, and that’s how a baby’s brain grows. And it turns out, any brain of any age, if you put it through those same pathways, it will send a message of neuroplasticity to the brain, and the brain will grow and heal and organize. Dr. Deb 19:16That was going to be my question, is why aren’t we using this for elderly people with dementia, or Alzheimer’s, or stroke, or Parkinson’s, or things like that, to help them regrow their brain? Kristin Reihman 19:28Well, because number one, nobody knows about it. Number two, even when people do know about it, nobody likes to be on the floor like a baby, creepy and crawling. And least of all the stubborn old people with dementia who are, like, who don’t even think they have a problem. I mean, the problem with the brain not working, as I discovered, and it sounds like you discovered, too, is the brain that’s not working doesn’t know it’s not working, or worse, doesn’t care. You know, and so it’s tricky with adults. With kids who, you know, you have some sort of power over, you can often make your kids do things that they don’t want to do, like eat their vegetables, or creep and crawl on the floor for 80, you know, 80 laps before they get to go, you know, do their thing. But adults are a little trickier. Dr. Deb 20:10Is there another way for us to be able to do that same thing without the crawling on the floor? Like, could they do it in a sitting motion, or do they need that whole connection to happen? Kristin Reihman 20:21Well, they need to be moving in a cross pattern, and they need to be moving their arms and their legs in such a way that stimulates the reflexes. But you can do that on your bed, you can do it face down on your bed by getting into a pattern, and switching sides and, you know, moving your legs and your arms in the opposite… in the, you know, an opposite cross pattern, and that will get you some of the benefit. And we, in fact, we have… we work with kids who are paralyzed and who don’t… aren’t able to independently move forward in a crawling pattern, who have people coordinating their movements so that they get the same movement, and the brain registers it, and they do make progress, and some of them eventually. Crawl, and then creep, and then walk. Dr. Deb 20:59Wow, that’s so… and it’s so simple and easy for people to do. Kristin Reihman 21:04Well, it’s simple. I don’t know that it’s easy. I do… I do… having done it myself, I will say it’s probably the hardest thing I’ve ever done, was literally crawl my way out of that brain injury. And I’m so glad that I knew what to do, and I’m so glad I had people push me to remind me that it was important, because… I’ll even… I’ll share another story of my own resistance. So, about 2 or 3 weeks into it, I was up to 300 meters of crawling on my belly. And 600 meters of creeping on hands and knees, which was really killing my knees, which was why I was wearing two knee pads. And, I started to get this feeling that maybe I wasn’t doing enough. Like, even though I was noticing changes, and even though I was feeling more purpose, and I was getting organized in the morning, I could tell it was making a difference. I… I knew, I remembered that usually the kids on our program are doing a lot more than that, including my own… my youngest kids, but I made them creep and crawl, even though they didn’t have serious brain injuries, I just thought, we’re gonna optimize everyone, get on the floor, get on the floor. Lord so I was… I was nervous about not doing enough, so I… I reached out to the member… one of the members of the team, and I said, you know, hey, Maria, what’s… what do you think about my numbers? And here’s a… here’s a video of me creeping and crawling, what do you think? Am I doing it right? And she said, you’re doing it right, but how many, how many meters are you doing? And I said, I’m doing 300 meters of crawling on my belly, and 600 meters of creeping, and she’s like, oh. Yeah, that’s not nearly enough for an adult. She’s like, Matthew probably gave you those numbers because he felt bad for you and thought you were going to be still working. He didn’t know you were going to take off from patients. Now that you’re… since you’re not working, you need to do more. I was like, okay, tell me… tell me how much I’m supposed to do. And she goes, you need 900 meters of crawling on your belly, and 3,600 meters, 3.6 kilometers of basically crawling on my hands and knees. Dr. Deb 22:51Oh my gosh. Kristin Reihman 22:52And I just shut down. Dr. Deb 22:54Yeah. Kristin Reihman 22:55I was like, okay, screw it. I’m not doing it. Dr. Deb 22:58And I spent a day or two just not doing it and feeling petulant, and then I was like, you know what? Kristin Reihman 23:01Forget that, I was noticing some benefit. I’m gonna do my 300-600. So, the next day, I went and did 300 and 600 while my daughter was at physical therapy, and we got back in the car, and I said, hey, I’m so excited, I finished my… all my creepy and crawling, and it’s only 10 a.m. on a Saturday, I’m done for the weekend. And she did this. She’s sitting in the car, she looks at me, she goes. Was that your whole program, or was that a third of your program? Dr. Deb 23:28How old is she? Kristin Reihman 23:01Well, she’s, like, 20 now, but she was 18 at the time, and she… she had my number, and I was like, Tula! How can you say that? I’m working so hard! And she’s like, Mom? You need to stop seeing patients completely, and do what they tell you at the Family Hope Center. Because we’re your family, and this is your brain we’re talking about, and we need you to have all your brain back. And I must have looked terrible, because she goes, too much? Dr. Deb 23:54You raised a good daughter. Kristin Reihman 23:58And I was like, well, let me tell… let me ask you, do you mean that? She goes, yeah, I really mean that. I’m like, then it’s not too much. I needed to hear that. Thank you. And I went home, and I finished another 600 of crawls. I didn’t… I never got up to 3,600 of creeps. It was just too much for my knees. I got to 900 and 900, but that was the end of my resistance, and I just did it. Dr. Deb 24:17I just did it. Yeah, your family needed you, right? I mean, when somebody in your family that you love tells you they need you, that’s a huge motivating factor. Kristin Reihman 24:27Yeah, yeah, I’m so grateful for that. So, I did that for 9 months, and at the end of 9 months, my eye was straight and stayed straight, my balance was back, I was multitasking again, and I could take, you know, days and days off of creeping and crawling and not notice a dip. I was like, I’m done. Dr. Deb 24:45Wow, that’s awesome. Kristin Reihman 24:46Yeah. Dr. Deb 24:47During this process, you also discovered that you’re part of 20% of the people with clotting genetics. Tell us a little bit about that. What’s your understanding in that? Kristin Reihman 24:58Well, so, I’ll back up. So, before I had my stroke, I had already been seeing patients with really complex, you know, patients like yours, really complex stories, lots of different things going on, kind of the perfect storm for if they got a tick bite, they tanked. Dr. Deb 25:12and… Kristin Reihman 25:13And I’m one of those people, and my patients were those people. And about 7 years ago, I had one of these patients who said to me, you know, I’ve never told you this, but when I was in my 20s, I had so many bladder infections, so much, like, you know, kind of interstitial cystitis, they said it was, and they said it wasn’t an infection, but it felt like one. And I’ve been doing a little research, and I’ve learned about this woman whose name’s Ruth Kriz, she’s a nurse practitioner, and she sees Patients, and she has… she works with practitioners, and she basically heals interstitial cystitis. And I want you to work with her, I want you to learn from her. And I was like, I’m game. That sounds really interesting, I have no idea what she’s doing, and you don’t usually hear the words cure and interstitial cystitis in the same sentence, so, like, I’m in. So I reached out to Ruth, and long story short, I’ve been working with her for the last 5 or 7 years basically increasing the number of patients who I’m diagnosing now with these hidden bladder infections that are really often what’s at the root of these interstitial cystitis symptoms, meaning, you know, you go to the doctor, you pee in a cup, they look for something, they say there’s no infection here, so, you know, you’re probably crazy, or, you know, you probably have just a pain syndrome, we can’t help you. And actually, if you look with a much more sensitive test, and if you break down the biofilms where these bugs kind of are living in the bladder, you find them. And then you can treat them, and then people get well. So I knew about this, and I, didn’t have any bladder infections that I knew about, and what I did start to think about after my stroke was, well, maybe, since these people who have these bladder infections often have issues breaking down biofilms, the same genetics that lead you to have trouble breaking down biofilms, which are these places where the bugs are kind of hiding in your body, have trouble breaking down clots. And I just had some strokes. I wonder if I have maybe some of these clotting genetics that I’m looking for in all my bladder people. And so I looked, and surprise, surprise, I had not one, not two, but, like, six of them. Ruth said to me, Ruth said, Darlin, I don’t know how you’re standing up. This is more than I’ve ever seen in any of my patients. And she’s been doing this for, like, 4 years now. I was like, oh boy, that’s not good. But in retrospect, it made a lot of sense to me, because having the clotting genetics I have. puts me at risk for severe, you know, chronic Lyme that’s intractable, which I had. It puts me at risk for trouble with, you know, having surgery and clotting and, you know, low blood pressure and low flow states. It puts me at risk for the cold hands and cold feet that I had my entire life until I started treating the clotting issues by taking an enzyme that breaks down little microclots. I mean, I was the person in med school who’d put my hands on people, be like, I’m so sorry. My hands are ice. Warm heart, cold hands, warm heart. Yeah, not anymore, because I’ve treated it. But yeah, so I was surprised slash not surprised to find that I’m one of the people in my community who is a setup for chronic infections and, strokes and bladder infections. Dr. Deb 28:22So you just had that predisposition that took you down that path. Kristin Reihman 28:28Yeah, I think so. Dr. Deb 28:30What are some of the layers of biofilm and the stealth pathogens, like tick-borne diseases and things like that, hiding inside us that… what are some of the symptoms look like, and how do they look different in people with clotting disorders versus the common tick-borne disease? Kristin Reihman 28:47I would say they’re very similar, so it tends to be poor peripheral circulation, so if you put your hands on your neck, and your hands feel cold to your neck difference in the heat, right? The amount of blood flow in your sort of axial skeleton and area as compared to the periphery. And that can indicate a biofilm kind of predisposition or a clotting disposition. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s there, but it’s a clue, right? Another clue is a family history of any kind of clotting disorders. So, miscarriages, heart attacks, especially early heart attacks, strokes, especially strokes in young people. These things are… are clues that we should probably look for some kind of clotting issue. And of course, in my population, I’m always thinking about it now, because if you have not been able to get well with the usual things for Lyme disease, for example, or Babesia or Bartonella, all of which, by the way, can form biofilms or, you know, love to live and hide in biofilms, then chances are your body’s having a hard time addressing those biofilms. And it turns out, so the connection between the clotting and the biofilm piece is that the same proteins that our body uses to break down Biofilms are used to break down microclots, blood clots, and soluble fibrin, which are the sort of precursors to those clots. And so, if we have an issue kind of grinding up those just normal flotsam and jetsam in our blood flow, then our blood flow is going to become sticky, and our blood will become sort of stagnant and sludgy, and that’s sort of a setup for not being able to heal from infections. Dr. Deb 30:25Is one of the genetic markers you look at MTHFR? Kristin Reihman 30:28I look at that, but I don’t consider that a clotting issue, unless it leads to high homocysteine. So, homocysteine can be either high or low, they’re both problematic. And MTHFR can create either an over-methylation situation, and sometimes if people have low homocysteine, it’s almost worse, because they’re such poor detoxers that they can’t actually get anything out of their system, and they get sludgy for that reason. But I think in terms of the clotting, the bigger issue is high homocysteine, which, you know, typically the MTHFRs, the 1298 would be more implicated for that. Dr. Deb 31:02Yeah, it kind of sets you up. Dr. Deb 31:04Yeah, yeah. Kristin Reihman 31:05I’m curious what you’re seeing. I know since the pandemic, we see a lot of people with elevated D-dimer levels.Are you seeing some of that in your practice, too? Like, we’re seeing more of it, and now that you’re talking about this, I’m wondering if some of those people are predisposed to some of these genetic makeups, and that’s why we’re seeing such a high rise in that.It… and this is connected, and it’s a piece we’re missing. Kristin Reihman31:29Yes, I do think it’s a piece we’re missing. There was a very interesting study that came out of South Africa. A physician in his office did a clinical study on his patients using 3 blood thinners. So he put people on Plavix, and Eliquis, and aspirin, all at once. It… yeah, you’d be hard-pressed to find a doctor in the States to, like, you know, kind of risk that, because most people don’t even want people on aspirin and Flavix at the same time. Dr. Deb 31:55But Kristin Reihman 31:56They put them on 3 different blood thinners, people with long COVID, and in 6 months, 80% of those people were completely free of symptoms. Dr. Deb 32:04Wow. Kristin Reihman 32:05Yeah, yeah. Now, my question is, what about that 20%? Like, what’s going on with them? And I suspect, they weren’t looking at the other half of the pathway, because when you give a blood thinner, you’re not doing anything to help the body break down clot. You’re simply stopping the body from making more of it. And you rely on the body’s own mechanisms, you know, plasminogen activating inhibitor, for example to kind of grind up those clots and take them out. But when people have a mutation, say, in that protein, they’re not going to be able to grind up the clots, and so my suspicion is the 20% of people who didn’t get well in that study were people who had issues on the other side of the pathway. Dr. Deb 32:44Yeah, they weren’t able to excrete that out and maybe have some fiber and issues and things like that, and that wasn’t being addressed. Kristin Reihman 32:50Yeah Dr. Deb 32:51Yeah Kristin Reihman 32:52Of course, COVID makes its own biofilm. There’s a whole… there’s a whole new, you know, arm of research looking at sort of the different proteins that get folded in the body when COVID spike proteins are in there, kind of creating these almost, like, little amyloid plaque situations in your blood vessels. So, I do think that people who can’t break those down are really at risk for both COVID and the shots. You know, the spike protein comes at you for both of those, right? Dr. Deb 33:17Yeah. Did you use any lumbrokinase or natokinase in your situation? Kristin Reihman 33:22So lumbar kinase is what I use. It’s my main player. I use the Canada RNA one, which is, you know, I think, you know, more studied than any of the other ones, and because of its formulation, it’s about 12 times more potent than anything else out there. So that’s what I’m pretty much on for life. You know, that’s… I consider that kind of my…My… my main game. Dr. Deb 33:44Yeah, I agree, I love Limerocheinase for that, that’s really good. So you recently hosted a retreat around this topic. What were some of your biggest aha moments for the participants as they started unraveling some of these biofilm layers? Kristin Reihman 34:00Yeah, no, it was so fun. My sister and I host retreats together. She came out from California and did the yoga, and I did the teaching about biofilms and bladder issues, and it was really fabulous, because a lot of these folks are people already in my community. A few of them were new, and so we had this wonderful Kind of connection, and learning together, and just validation of what it is to live with symptoms that are super inconvenient, you know? Like, one of the… one of the members even, or participants even brought a big bag of, like, pads, and she’s like, listen, ladies. This is what I’m going to use to get through the week. If you want to borrow, I’ll put my little stash over there, and I think they all went by the end of the week. So we… my aha moment was just how powerful it is to be, hosting community and facilitating conversations where people really feel seen and heard, and just how important that is, especially post-COVID, right? When we, you know, so many people just really missed that piece of other humans. And, yeah, I love… I love being able to help people connect around stuff like that. Dr. Deb 35:00That’s awesome. So, for people who are listening that have that mystery, quote-unquote bladder issue, frequent UTIs, interstitial cystitis symptoms, or pelvic pain, or bladder spasms. Where should they start, and what are the first clues that tell you this is biofilm-driven? Kristin Reihman 35:20So, I think it’s always a good idea to… to do a test, you know, to take a microgen test. There’s a couple companies out there, I think Microgen’s the one that I rely on more than any of the others, and it requires, you know, not only doing a very sensitive test like Microgen, but breaking down biofilm before you take it. So, I always encourage people to take a biofilm breaker like lumbrokinase for 5 days leading up to the test, so you’re really grinding into the bladder wall and opening up those biofilms so that when you catch whatever comes out of your bladder, there’s something in there. If you don’t have bladder biofilm, nothing will come out, and you’ll have a negative test, and that’s usually confirmatory. If you’ve done a good provoking with BLUC or, you know, lumbrokinase for 5 days, and nothing comes out then I usually say mischief managed. That’s… that’s a great… that’s great news for you, right? And most people in my community, when they look, they find something, because, you know, not for nothing, but you’re in my community for a reason, right? Dr. Deb 36:17And so… Kristin Reihman 36:18So, yeah, and typically then we need to get into the ring with those bladder biofilms, and it doesn’t… it doesn’t usually take one or two tests, it’s many tests, because the layers are deep. I’m working with children, too, and even in small kids, they… if they have the right genetics, and if they’re living in an environment that is… that kind of can also push them to make more biofilms, like living in mold, for example, is a huge instigator of inflammation and biofilms, and also, you know, microclots and fibrin in the body. then those layers can go deep. And so, we’re peeling the layers one at a time, and we’re treating what comes out, and supporting people along the way. Dr. Deb 36:57With these microgen tests, can you find biofilms in other parts of the body as well, or is it primarily bladder? Kristin Reihman 37:03No, you can find… you can culture… and you can send a microgen PCR for any… any, you know, secretion you want. So they have a semen test, they have a vaginal test, they have a nasal test, you can send sputum, you can culture out what… you can stick a swab in your ear. There’s all sorts of… anything that you can put a swab in, you can… you can send in there. Oh, that’s awesome, that’s amazing. Yeah. Dr. Deb 37:26So, once you identify the drivers, genetics, environment, stealth infections, what does an effective treatment or reversal process look like for people? Kristin Reihman 37:36For the… for the bladder in particular? Well, I wish I could say it was herbs or oxidation, which are my favorite things for Lyme. I haven’t found those to work for the bladder, and so I’m using antibiotics. Which, even though I’m a Western-trained MD, it was not my bag of tricks. You know, when I left, sort of, the matrix medicine model, I really stopped using those things as much as possible, and I’ve had to come back to them, because they really, really work, and they’re really, really needed. So I love it if someone else out there is getting results with something other than antibiotics, please contact me and let me know, because I have plenty of patients who are like, really? Another antibiotic? I’m like, I know. But they work. We also do a really careful job, you know, I work with Ruth Kriz on every case, and we do a very careful job in finding the drug that’s going to be the least broad spectrum, and that’s really only going to tackle the highest percentage bug there. So, MicroGen does this really cool thing. It’s a PCR, next-gen sequencing, they’re looking at genetics, so you don’t have to have it on ice, it can sit on your countertop for a month, and you can still send it in. And they, they, they categorize by percentage, like, what’s there. And they’re not just looking for the 26 or 28 different bacteria that you would get if you were looking at a culture in your doctor’s office. They’re looking for 57,000 different organisms. Fungal and bacterial, yeah? And so, this is why I say, if there’s something there, and you’ve broken down the biofilm, microgen will find it. Dr. Deb 39:06That’s really great. That was going to be my question, is does it pick up fungal biofilms as well? So I’m so glad you mentioned that, because a lot of times with bladder stuff, it’s fungal in that bladder, too, and then we’re throwing an antibiotic at it and just making it worse if it’s fungal in there. Kristin Reihman 39:21Yeah, yeah, that’s… they… and I recently saw one, I had a little Amish girl who came back with 5 different fungal organisms in her bladder. And a whole flurry, a slurry of bacteria, too. Yeah, pretty sick. And that’s usually an indication that you’re living in mold, honestly. Dr. Deb 39:37Now, conventional medicine treats the bladder as a sterile organ, and rarely looks at biofilms. Why do we believe that this has been overlooked for so long, and what are they missing? Kristin Reihman 39:53Dr. Dr. Deb 39:53I’m loaded up. Kristin Reihman 39:54One of the many mysteries of medicine. I have no idea why people are like, la la la, biofilms. I mean, we know, so when I say we know, so when I trained, you know, I trained at Stanford for my medical school, I trained at Lehigh Valley for residency. Great programs, and I learned that, oh yes, biofilms, they exist in catheters of bladders. When people have an indwelling catheter for more than a month and they spike a fever, it’s a biofilm, but it’s only in the catheter. Really? Why does it stop at the catheter? Dr. Deb 40:23Yeah. Kristin Reihman 40:25Or, you know, now chronic sinusitis, people are recognizing this is a bladder… this is not a bladder, this is a biofilm infection in your sinuses. But we’re really reluctant to kind of admit that there’s, you know, that we’re teeming with microorganisms, that they might be setting up shop, and for good, right? Like, it’d be great if they were in biofilms as opposed to our bloodstream. Like, we don’t want them in our bloodstream, so thankfully they wall themselves off. But yeah, I think they’re everywhere. I mean, they found a microbiome in the brain, in the breast, in the, you know, the lung. There’s microbiome, there’s bugs everywhere. And the question is, are they friend or foe? And the bladder really shouldn’t have anybody in it. Because, think about it, you’re flushing it out, you know, 6 times a day. You know, most people who can break down biofilm because their clotting genetics are normal, and because they’re peeing adequately, will never set up an organism shop in their bladder. Even though things are always crawling up, we’re always peeing them out. Dr. Deb 41:23Yeah. Kristin Reihman 41:23And then there’s the 20% of us who… Who aren’t that way. Dr. Deb 41:30Oh, so you run the Interflow program and a number of healing communities. What tools and teachings have been the most transformational for people going through this journey? And tell us a little bit about the Interflow program, too, please. Kristin Reihman 41:44Okay, maybe I’ll start there, because honestly, I have to think about the which tools are most transformational. The Interflow program is my newest offering, and we developed it because my team and I were looking around at the patients we had, and so many folks were needing to go down this… we call it the microgen journey, like, get on the microgen train and just start that process. And there was just a lot of hand-holding and support, and… education that they were requiring. And by the way, their brains aren’t working that great, because when you have these infections, you know, you’re dealing with, like, downloads of ammonia from time to time from the bladder organisms, you’re dealing with a lot of brain fog, overwhelm, you know, there’s just a lot of… you know how our patients are, they… they… they’re struggling, and they really need a lot of hand-holding, and so we were providing that. But we kept thinking, like, gosh, it would be great to get these guys in community, like you know, we can say all we want, like, you know, it’s important to check your pH, it’s important to, like, stay on top of the whatever, but it’d be great to have them hear that from one another, and to have them also hear, sort of, that they’re not alone. So, because we had some experience running communities online, which we started during the pandemic and has been super successful, we said, let’s do this, let’s create a little online community of our inner… of our, you know, call them… informally, we call them our bladder babes. But, like, let’s create a community of people who are looking to really heal and get to this deep, deep root that no one else is doing. And that was really the key for me, that nobody else is really doing this. Very few people are doing it or aware of it. I wish that weren’t the case, but as it stands now, it’s pretty hard to find someone to take this seriously. Most doctors, if you even take a microgen to them, they’ll say, oh, there’s 10 organisms on here, that’s a contamination. That must be contaminated. Well, yeah, buy your biofilms, but they don’t know about biofilms, so they think it just comes from the lab. Dr. Deb 43:31Something. Kristin Reihman 43:32I don’t know. But, yeah, basically it was because I felt called to do this service that no one else is providing, and I wanted to do it in a way that was going to be really optimally supportive for people. So we created a membership, basically. Dr. Deb 43:44Do you see a difference in men and women? Obviously, women have this problem more than men, but do you see a difference in how many men that have these self-infections or live in mold compared to women? Kristin Reihman 43:57I… it’s hard to know, really, what the, sort of, prevalence is out there, I will say, in terms of who calls our office. Dr. Deb 43:03It’s, you know, 95% women call our office. Kristin Reihman 44:08And occasionally, we’ve had someone call our office on behalf of a husband or a son. I just saw a woman whose 2-year-old son is in our Bladder Babes community. But typically, it’s the women who are seeking care around this, and I don’t know if that’s a function of their having more of the issues. I suspect it is, because as you said before, so many more women deal with these complex mystery illnesses than men.But there certainly are men who have them. Dr. Deb 44:33Yeah. So, you’ve lived through Lyme, chronic illness, stroke, and now biofilm-driven bladder issues, and you’ve come out stronger. What mind shifts helped you stay resilient through all of these chapters? Kristin Reihman 44:50I think there have been many. I think the first one I had to really, Really accept and lean into and kind of internalize. Was this idea that, I… I couldn’t… I didn’t have to do the work that I was doing. Dr. Deb 45:09You know? Kristin Reihman 45:09In order to be of value to the world. You know, I’d trained in a certain way, I had, you know, I had this beautiful practice. I was working in the inner city, I was working with my best friend, we were seeing really needy people who had no money, and it felt really, like, you know, I felt very sort of service-driven and connected to a purpose. And I think the hardest thing in the beginning for me was realizing, I can’t do that work anymore. That’s not the work that I’m… needing to do, and to make a leap into the unknown. It felt like, you know, having a baby at 45 and not doing any ultrasounds, or any tests, and just being like, I’m birthing something here. I don’t know what it is, it’s me, but who knows what she’s gonna look like, or… what this doctor is going to be, you know, what, you know, peddling in terms of her tools. That was a big leap of faith, and I think letting go of the kind of control of needing to be… needing to look a certain way and be a certain kind of doctor was a big step for me, my big initial step. Dr. Deb 46:05That’s really hard, because you’re taught and ingrained in who you’re supposed to be as a doctor, and what that person’s supposed to be, what your persona’s supposed to be. And doing a lot of the Klinghart work and some of those things, and I’m sure on the days crawling through the floor, you’re like, this is not what I was trained to do. If my colleagues could only see me now, they’d… they’d… Commit me, right? But like you said, just giving that leap of faith and saying, I’m gonna turn this over to your higher power, and you’re gonna bring me out on the other side, and trusting that, that is a vulnerability for us that is huge. Kristin Reihman 46:43Yeah, and I mean, I’d like to say it’s because I’m some sort of strong person, but truthfully, I feel like there was no other choice. Like, I had to surrender because there was… the alternative was death or something. I didn’t… I don’t know, right? There was no other choice. Dr. Deb 46:56Yeah. Kristin Reihman 46:56I couldn’t move. I was in so much pain. I couldn’t move. Couldn’t get out of bed. Dr. Deb 47:01Thank you so much for sharing all of this and being vulnerable with our audience. Where can people find you? Find your book, your podcast, your programs, if they want to go deeper with you? Kristin Reihman 47:12Yeah, thanks for asking. So, I have a website, it’s my name, kristenRymanMD.com, and all my programs are listed there. I have several, you know, I have a, sort of, a wellness… I have an online membership for well people who want to stay well and pick my brain every week around, sort of, healthy, holistic tools. It’s called The Healing Grove.I have a podcast that people can listen to for free, where I interview people like you, and you’re gonna be on it, right? She’s gonna be on it soon. Dr. Deb 47:38I’d love to. Kristin Reihman 47:39So I can share stories of hope and transformational tools with people. I also have a Life After Lyme coaching program, which is kind of the place where I invite people who are dealing with a mystery illness to come get some support, community, and guidance from someone like me, and also just from the other people in the room. There’s a lot of wisdom in those groups. And that’s… I guess that’s the answer I’ll share for what you asked earlier, like, what’s the main tool they take away? I think they take away an understanding that community really matters, and that they’re not alone. You know, I think it can be very lonely to be stuck in these… to feel stuck in these illnesses, and people need to be reminded that they’re… that they’re human, you know, and that they’re worthy of love and acceptance. I think that’s what people get from my… from my community, is kind of like, that’s the common thread. Dr. Deb 48:23They definitely need that. Kristin Reihman 48:25Man. Dr. Deb 48:26Kirsten, thank you so much for sharing your powerful story. Your work is so needed, and your ability to weave personal experience and advanced clinical insight is exactly what our community craves. And this kind of conversation helps women finally be seen and heard, which is my motto too, and gives them just the real tools to get their life back. And for everyone listening, if you’re struggling with unexplained bladder pain, frequent UTIs, pelvic discomfort, or symptoms that never match your labs, because they never quite do. You are not crazy, you are not alone. You need to find the answers, you need to be with community, and there are solutions, and conversations like this is how we bring them forward. So, thank you all for tuning in to Let’s Talk Wellness Now. I’m your host.And until next time… Kristin Reihman 49:15Thanks, Dr. Dove. Dr. Deb 49:16Thank you. This was awesome. Thank you so much. This was… Kristin Reihman 49:21You’re so welcome, you’re such a great interviewer.The post Episode 251 – Chronic Bladder Symptoms, Biofilms, and the Hidden Genetic Drivers first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. DebWhat if I told you that the stomach acid medication you’re taking for heartburn is actually causing the problem it’s supposed to solve that your doctor learned virtually nothing about nutrition, despite spending 8 years in medical school. That the very system claiming to heal you was deliberately designed over a hundred years ago by an oil tycoon, John D. Rockefeller, to create lifelong customers, not healthy people. Last week a patient spent thousands of dollars on tests and treatments for acid reflux, only to discover she needed more stomach acid, not less. The medication keeping her sick was designed to do exactly that. Today we’re exposing the greatest medical deception in modern history, how a petroleum empire systematically destroyed natural healing wisdom turned medicine into a profit machine. And why the treatments, keeping millions sick were engineered that way from the beginning. This isn’t about conspiracy theories. This is a documented history that explains why you feel so lost about your own body’s needs welcome back to let’s talk wellness. Now the show where we uncover the root causes of chronic illness, explore cutting edge regenerative medicine, and empower you with the tools to heal. I’m Dr. Deb. And today we’re diving into how the Rockefeller Medical Empire systematically destroyed natural healing wisdom and replaced it with profit driven systems that keeps you dependent on treatments instead of achieving true health. If you or someone you love has been running to the doctor for every minor ailment, taking acid blockers that seem to make digestive problems worse, or feeling confused about basic body functions that our ancestors understood instinctively. This episode is for you. So, as usual, grab a cup of coffee, tea, or whatever helps you unwind. Settle in and let’s get started on your journey to reclaiming your health sovereignty all right. So here we are talking about the Rockefeller Medical Revolution. Now, what if your symptoms aren’t true diagnosis, but rather the predictable result of a medical system designed over a hundred years ago to create lifelong customers instead of healthy people. Now I learned this when I was in naturopathic school over 20 years ago. And it hasn’t been talked about a lot until recently. Recently. People are exposing the truth about what actually happened in our medical system. And today I want to take you back to the early 19 hundreds to understand how we lost the basic health wisdom that sustained humanity for thousands of years. Yes, I said that thousands of years. This isn’t conspiracy theory. This is documented history. That explains why you feel so lost when it comes to your own body’s needs. You know by the turn of the 20th century. According to meridian health Clinic’s documentation. Rockefeller controlled 90% of all petroleum refineries in America and through ownership of the Standard Oil Corporation. But Rockefeller saw an opportunity that went far beyond oil. He recognized that petrochemicals could be the foundation for a completely new medical system. And here’s what most people don’t know. Natural and herbal medicines were very popular in America during the early 19 hundreds. According to Staywell, Copper’s historical analysis, almost one half of medical colleges and doctors in America were practicing holistic medicine, using extensive knowledge from Europe and native American traditions. People understood that food was medicine, that the body had natural healing mechanisms, and that supporting these mechanisms was the key to health. But there was a problem with the Rockefeller’s business plan. Natural medicines couldn’t be patented. They couldn’t make a lot of money off of them, because they couldn’t hold a patent. Petrochemicals, however, could be patented, could be owned, and could be sold for high profits. So Rockefeller and Andrew Carnegie devised a systematic plan to eliminate natural medicine and replace it with petrochemical based pharmaceuticals and according to E. Richard Brown’s comprehensive academic documentation in Rockefeller, medicine men. Medicine, and capitalism in America. They employed the services of Abraham Flexner, who proceeded to visit and assess every single medical school in us and in Canada. Within a very short time of this development, medical schools all around the us began to collapse or consolidate. The numbers are staggering. By 1910 30 schools had merged, and 21 had closed their doors of the 166 medical colleges operating in 19 0, 4, a hundred 33 had survived by 1910 and a hundred 4 by 1915, 15 years later, only 76 schools of medicine existed in the Us. And they all followed the same curriculum. This wasn’t just about changing medical education. According to Staywell’s copper historical analysis. Rockefeller and Carnegie influenced insurance companies to stop covering holistic treatments. Medical professionals were trained in the new pharmaceutical model and natural solutions became outdated or forgotten. Not only that alternative healthcare practitioners who wanted to stay practicing in alternative medicine were imprisoned for doing so as documented by the potency number 710. The goal was clear, create a system where scientists would study how plants cure disease, identify which chemicals in the plants were effective and then recreate a similar but not identical chemical in the laboratory that would be patented. E. Richard Brown’s documents. The story of how a powerful professional elite gained virtual homogeny in the western theater of healing by effectively taking control of the ethos and practice of Western medicine. The result, according to the healthcare spending data, the United States now spends 17.6% of its Gdp on health care 4.9 trillion dollars in 2023, or 14,570 per person nearly twice as much as the average Oecd country. But it doesn’t focus on cure. But on symptoms, and thus creating recurring clients. This systematic destruction of natural medicine explains why today’s healthcare providers often seem baffled by simple questions about nutrition why they immediately reach for a prescription medication for minor ailments, and why so many people feel disconnected from their own body’s wisdom. We’ve been trained over 4 generations to believe that our bodies are broken, and that symptoms are diseases rather than messages, and that external interventions are always superior to supporting natural healing processes. But here’s what they couldn’t eliminate your body’s innate wisdom. Your digestive system still functions the same way it did a hundred years ago. Your immune system still follows the same patterns. The principles of nutrition, movement and stress management haven’t changed. We’ve just forgotten how to listen and respond. We’re gonna take a small break here and hear from our sponsor. When we come back. We’re gonna talk about the acid reflux deception, and why your cure is making you sicker, so don’t go away all right, welcome back. So I want to give you a perfect example of how Rockefeller medicine has turned natural body wisdom upside down, the treatment of acid, reflux, and heartburn. Every single day in my practice I see patients who’ve been taking acid blocker medications, proton pump inhibitors like prilosec nexium or prevacid for years, not for weeks, years, and sometimes even decades. They come to me because their digestive problems are getting worse, not better. They have bloating and gas and nutrition deficiencies. And we’re seeing many more increased food sensitivities. And here’s what’s happening in the Us. Most people often attribute their digestive problems to too much stomach acid. And they use medications to suppress the stomach acid, but, in fact symptoms of chronic acid, reflux, heartburn, or gerd, can also be caused by too little stomach acid, a condition called hyper. Sorry hypochlorhydria normal stomach acid has a Ph level of one to 2, which is highly acidic. Hydrochloric acid plays an important role in your digestion and your immunity. It helps to break down proteins and absorb essential nutrients, and it helps control viruses and bacteria that might otherwise infect your stomach. But here’s the crucial part that most people don’t understand, and, according to Cleveland clinic, your stomach secretes lower amounts of hydrochloric acid. As you age. Hypochlorhydria is more common in people over the age of 40, and even more common over the age of 65. Webmd states that the stomach acid can produce less acid as a result of aging and being 65 or older is a risk factor for developing hypochlorhydria. We’ve been treating this in my practice for a long time. It’s 1 of the main foundations that we learn as naturopathic practitioners and as naturopathic doctors, and there are times where people need these medications, but they were designed to be used short term not long term in a 2,013 review published in Medical News today, they found that hypochlorhydria is the main change in the stomach acid of older adults. and when you have hypochlorydria, poor digestion from the lack of stomach, acid can create gas bubbles that rise into your esophagus or throat, carrying stomach acid with them. You experience heartburn and assume that you have too much acid. So you take acid blockers which makes the underlying problem worse. Now, here’s something that will shock you. PPI’s protein pump inhibitors were originally studied and approved by the FDA for short-term use only according to research published in us pharmacists, most cases of peptic ulcers resolve in 6 to 8 weeks with PPI therapy, which is what these medications were created for. Originally the American family physician reports that for erosive esophagitis. Omeprazole is indicated for short term 4 to 8 weeks. That’s it. Treatment and healing and done if needed. An additional 4 to 8 weeks of therapy may be considered and the University of Minnesota College of Pharmacy, States. Guidelines recommended a treatment duration of 8 weeks with standard once a day dosing for a PPI for Gerd. The Canadian family physician, published guidelines where a team of healthcare professionals recommended prescribing Ppis in adults who suffer from heartburn and who have completed a minimum treatment of 4 weeks in which symptoms were relieved. Yet people are taking these medications for years, even decades far beyond their intended duration of use and a study published in Pmc. Found that the threshold for defining long-term PPI use varied from 2 weeks to 7 years of PPI use. But the most common definition was greater than one year or 6 months, according to the research in clinical context, use of Ppis for more than 8 weeks could be reasonably defined as long-term use. Now let’s talk about what these acid blocker medications are actually doing to your body when used. Long term. The research on long term PPI use is absolutely alarming. According to the comprehensive review published in pubmed central Pmc. Long-term use of ppis have been associated with serious adverse effects, including kidney disease, cardiovascular disease fractures because you’re not absorbing your nutrients, and you’re being depleted. Infections, including C. Diff pneumonia, micronutrient deficiencies and hypomagnesium a low level of magnesium anemia, vitamin, b, deficiency, hypocalcemia, low calcium, low potassium. and even cancers, including gastric cancer, pancreatic cancer, colorectal cancer. And hepatic cancer and we are seeing all of these cancers on a rise, and we are now linking them back to some of these medications. Mayo clinic proceedings published research showing that recent studies regarding long-term use of PPI medication have noted potential adverse effects, including risks of fracture, pneumonia, C diff, which is a diarrhea. It’s a bacteria, low magnesium, low b 12 chronic kidney disease and even dementia. And a 2024 study published in nature communications, analyzing over 2 million participants from 5 cohorts found that PPI use correlated with increased risk of 15 leading global diseases, such as ischemic heart disease. Diabetes, respiratory infections, chronic kidney disease. And these associations showed dose response relationships and consistency across different PPI types. Now think about this. You take a medication for heartburn that was designed for 4 to 8 weeks of use, and when used long term, it actually increases your risk of life, threatening infections, kidney disease, and dementia. This is the predictable result of suppressing a natural body function that exists for important reasons. Hci plays a key role in many physiological processes. It triggers, intestinal hormones, prepares folate and B 12 for absorption, and it’s essential for absorption of minerals, including calcium, magnesium, potassium, zinc, and iron. And when you block acid production, you create a cascade of nutritional deficiencies and immune system problems that often manifest as seemingly unrelated health issues. So what’s the natural approach? Instead of suppressing stomach acid, we need to support healthy acid production and address the root cause of reflux healthcare. Providers may prescribe hcl supplements like betaine, hydrochloric acid. Bhcl is what it’s called. Sometimes it’s called betaine it’s often combined with enzymes like pepsin or amylase or lipase, and it’s used to treat hydrochloric acid deficiency, hypochlorhydria. These supplements can help your digestion and sometimes help your stomach acid gradually return back to normal levels where you may not need to use them all the time. Simple strategies include consuming protein at the beginning of the meal to stimulate Hcl production, consume fluids separately at least 30 min away from meals, if you can, and address the underlying cause like chronic stress and H. Pylori infections. This is such a sore subject for me. So many people walk around with an H. Pylori infection. It’s a bacterial infection in the stomach that can cause stomach ulcers, causes a lot of stomach pain and burning. and nobody is treating the infection. It’s a bacterial infection. We don’t treat this anymore with antibiotics or antimicrobials. We treat it with Ppis. But, Ppis don’t fix the problem. You have to get rid of the bacteria once the bacteria is gone, the gut lining can heal. Now it is a common bacteria. It can reoccur quite frequently. It’s highly contagious, so you can pick it up from other people, and it may need multiple courses of treatment over a person’s lifetime. But you’re actually treating the problem. You’re getting rid of the bacteria that’s creating the issue instead of suppressing the acid. That’s not fixing the bacteria which then leads to a whole host of other problems that we just talked about. There are natural approaches to increase stomach acid, including addressing zinc deficiency. And since the stomach uses zinc to produce Hcl. Taking probiotics to help support healthy gut bacteria and using digestive bitters before meals can be really helpful. This is exactly what I mean about reclaiming the body’s wisdom. Instead of suppressing natural functions, we support them instead of creating drug dependency, we restore normal physiology. Instead of treating symptoms indefinitely, we address the root cause and help the body heal itself. In many cultures. Bitters is a common thing to use before or after a meal. But yet in the American culture we don’t do that anymore. We’ve not passed on that tradition. So very few people understand how to use bitters, or what bitters are, or why they’re important. And these basic things that can be used in your food and cooking and taking could replace thousands of dollars of medication that you don’t really need. That can create many more problems along the way. Now, why does your doctor know nothing about nutrition. Well, I want to address something that might shock you all. The reason your doctor seems baffled when you ask about nutrition isn’t because they’re not intelligent. It’s because they literally never learned this in medical school statistics on nutritional education in medical schools are staggering and help explain why we have such a health literacy crisis in America. According to recent research published in multiple academic journals, only 27% of Us. Medical schools actually offer students. The recommended 25 h of nutritional training across 4 years of medical school. That means 73% of the medical schools don’t even meet the minimum standards set in 1985. But wait, it gets worse. A 2021 survey of medical schools in the Us. And the Uk. Found that most students receive an average of only 11 h of nutritional training throughout their entire medical program. and another recent study showed that in 2023 a survey of more than a thousand Us. Medical students. About 58% of these respondents said they received no formal nutritional education while in medical school. For 4 years those who did averaged only 3 h. I’m going to say this again because it’s it’s huge 3 h of nutritional education per year. So let me put this in perspective during 4 years of medical school most students spend fewer than 20 h on nutrition that’s completely disproportionate to its health benefits for patients to compare. They’ll spend hundreds of hours learning about pharmaceutical interventions, but virtually no time learning how food affects health and disease. Now, could this be? Why, when we talk about nutrition to lower cholesterol levels or control your diabetes, they blow you off, and they don’t answer you. It’s because they don’t understand. But yet what they’ll say is, people won’t change their diet. That’s why you have to take medication. That’s not true. I will tell you. I work with people every single day who are willing to change their diet. They’re just confused by all the information that’s out there today about nutrition. And what diet is the right diet to follow? Do I do, Paleo? Do I do? Aip? Do I do carnivore? Do I do, Keto? Do I do? Low carb? There’s so many diets out there today? It’s confusing people. So I digress. But let’s go back. So here’s the kicker. The limited time medical students do spend on nutrition office often focuses on nutrients think proteins and carbohydrates rather than training in topics such as motivational interviewing or meal planning, and as one Stanford researcher noted, we physicians often sound like chemists rather than counselors who can speak with patients about diet. Isn’t that true? We can speak super high level up here, but we can’t talk basics about nutrition. And this explains why only 14% of the physicians believe they were adequately trained in nutritional counseling. Once they entered practice and without foundational concepts of nutrition in undergrad work. Graduate medical education unsurprisingly falls short of meeting patients, needs for nutritional guidance in clinical practice, and meanwhile diet, sensitive chronic diseases continue to escalate. Although they are largely preventable and treatable by nutritional therapies and dietary. Lifestyle changes. Now think about this. Diet. Related diseases are the number one cause of death in the Us. The number one cause. Yet many doctors receive little to no nutritional education in medical school, and according to current health statistics from 2017 to march of 2020. Obesity prevalence was 19.7% among us children and adolescents affecting approximately 14.7 million young people. About 352,000 Americans, under the age of 20, have been diagnosed with diabetes. Let me say this again, because these numbers are astounding to me. 352,000 Americans, under the age of 20, have been diagnosed with diabetes with 5,300 youth diagnosed with type, 2 diabetes annually. Yet the very professionals we turn to for health. Guidance were never taught how food affects these conditions and what drug has come to the rescue Glp. One S. Ozempic wegovy. They’re great for weight loss. They’re great for treating diabetes. But why are they here? Well, these numbers are. Why, they’re here. This is staggering to put 352,000 Americans under the age of 20 on a glp, one that they’re going to be on for the rest of their lives at a minimum of $1,200 per month. All we have to do is do the math, you guys, and we can see exactly what’s happening to our country, and who is getting rich, and who is getting the short end of the stick. You’ve become a moneymaker to the pharmaceutical industry because nobody has taught you how to eat properly, how to live, how to have a healthy lifestyle, and how to prevent disease, or how to actually reverse type 2 diabetes, because it’s reversible in many cases, especially young people. And we do none of that. All we do is prescribe medications. Metformin. Glp, one for the rest of your life from 20 years old to 75, or 80, you’re going to be taking medications that are making the pharmaceutical companies more wealth and creating a disease on top of a disease on top of a disease. These deficiencies in nutritional education happen at all levels of medical training, and there’s been little improvement, despite decades of calls for reform. In 1985, the National Academy of Sciences report that they recommended at least 25 h of nutritional education in medical school. But a 2015 study showed only 29% of medical schools met this goal, and a 2023 study suggests the problem has become even worse. Only 7.8% of medical students reported 20 or more hours of nutritional education across all 4 years of medical school. This systemic lack of nutrition, nutritional education has been attributed to several factors a dearth of qualified instructors for nutritional courses, since most physicians do not understand nutrition well enough to teach it competition for curriculum time, with schools focusing on pharmaceutical interventions rather than lifestyle medicine and a lack of external incentives that support schools, teaching nutrition. And ironically, many medical schools are part of universities that have nutrition departments with Phd. Trained professors who could fill this gap by teaching nutrition in medical schools but those classes are often taught by physicians who may not have adequate nutritional training themselves. This explains so much about what I see in my practice. Patients come to me confused and frustrated because their primary care doctors can’t answer basic questions about how food affects their health conditions. And these doctors aren’t incompetent. They simply were never taught this information. And the result is that these physicians graduate, knowing how to prescribe medications for diabetes, but not how dietary changes can prevent or reverse it. They can treat high blood pressure with pharmaceuticals, but they may not know that specific nutritional approaches can be equally or more effective. This isn’t the doctor’s fault. It’s the predictable result of medical education systems that was deliberately designed to focus on patentable treatments rather than natural healing approaches. And remember this traces back to the Rockefeller influence on medical education. You can’t patent an apple or a vegetable. But you can patent a drug now. Why can’t we trust most medical studies? Well this just gets even better. I need to address something that’s crucial for you to understand as you navigate health information. Why so much of the medical research you hear about in the news is biased, and why peer Review isn’t the gold standard of truth you’ve been told it is. The corruption in medical research by pharmaceutical companies is not a conspiracy theory. It’s well documented scientific fact, according to research, published in frontiers, in research, metrics and analytics. When pharmaceutical and other companies sponsor research, there is a bias. A systematic tendency towards results serving their interests. But the bias is not seen in the formal factors routinely associated with low quality science. A Cochrane Review analyzed 75 studies of the association between industry, funding, and trial results, and these authors concluded that trials funded by a drug or device company were more likely to have positive conclusions and statistically significant results, and that this association could not be explained by differences in risk of bias between industry and non-industry funded trials. So think about that. According to the Cochrane collaboration, industry funding itself should be considered a standard risk of bias, a factor in clinical trials. Studies published in science and engineering ethics show that industry supported research is much more likely to yield positive outcomes than research with any other sponsorship. And here’s how the bias gets introduced through choice of compartor agents, multiple publications of positive trials and non-publication of negative trials reinterpreting data submitted to regulatory agencies, discordance between results and conclusions, conflict of interest leading to more positive conclusions, ghostwriting and the use of seating trials. Research, published in the American Journal of Medicine. Found that a result favorable to drug study was reported by all industry, supported studies compared with two-thirds of studies, not industry, supported all industry, supported studies showed favorable results. That’s not science that’s marketing, masquerading as research. And according to research, published in sciencedirect the peer review system which we’re told ensures quality. Science has a major limitation. It has proved to be unable to deal with conflicts of interest, especially in big science contexts where prestigious scientists may have similar biases and conflicts of interest are widely shared among peer reviewers. Even government funded research can have conflicts of interest. Research published in pubmed States that there are significant benefits to authors and investigators in participating in government funded research and to journals in publishing it, which creates potentially biased information that are rarely acknowledged. And, according to research, published in frontiers in research, metrics, and analytics, the pharmaceutical industry has essentially co-opted medical knowledge systems for their particular interests. Using its very substantial resources. Pharmaceutical companies take their own research and smoothly integrate it into medical science. Taking advantage of the legitimacy of medical institutions. And this corruption means that much of what passes for medical science is actually influenced by commercial interests rather than pursuant of truth. Research published in Pmc. Shows that industry funding affects the results of clinical trials in predictable directions, serving the interests of the funders rather than the patients. So where can we get this reliable, unbiased Health information, because this is critically important, because your health decisions should be based on the best available evidence, not marketing disguised as science. And so here are some sources that I recommend for trustworthy health and nutritional information. They’re independent academic sources. According to Harvard Chan School of public health their nutritional, sourced, implicitly states their content is free from industry, influence, or support. The Linus Pauling Institute, Micronutrient Information Center at Oregon State University, which, according to the Glendale Community college Research Guide provides scientifically accurate information about vitamins, minerals, and other dietary factors. This Institute has been around for decades. I’ve used it a lot. I’ve gotten a lot of great information from them. Very, very trustworthy. According to the Glendale Community College of Nutrition Resource guide Tufts, University of Human Nutritional Research Center on aging is one of 6 human nutrition research centers supported by the United States Department of Agriculture, the Usda. Their peer reviewed journals with strong editorial independence though you must still check funding resources. And how do you evaluate this information? Online? Well, according to medlineplus and various health literacy guides when evaluating health information medical schools and large professional or nonprofit organizations are generally reliable sources, but remember, it is tainted by the Rockefeller method. So, for example, the American College of cardiology. Excuse me. Professional organization and the American Heart Institute a nonprofit are both reliable sources. Sorry about that of information on heart health and watch out for ads designed to look like neutral health information. If the site is funded by ads they should be clearly marked as advertisements. Excuse me, I guess I’m talking just a little too much now. So when the fear of medicine becomes deadly. Now, I want to address something critically important that often gets lost in conversations about health, sovereignty, and questioning the medical establishment. And while I’ve spent most of this episode explaining how the Rockefeller medical system has created dependency and suppressed natural healing wisdom. There’s a dangerous pendulum swing happening that I see in my practice. People becoming so fearful of pharmaceutical interventions that they refuse lifesaving treatments when they’re genuinely needed. This is where balance and clinical judgment become absolutely essential. Yes, we need to reclaim our basic health literacy and reduce our dependency on unnecessary medical interventions. But there are serious bacterial infections that require immediate antibiotic treatment, and the consequences of avoiding treatment can be devastating or even fatal. So let me share some examples from research that illustrate when antibiotic fear becomes dangerous. Let’s talk about Lyme disease, and when natural approaches might not be enough. The International Lyme Disease Association ilads has conducted extensive research on chronic lyme disease, and their findings are sobering. Ileds defines chronic lyme disease as a multi-system illness that results from an active and ongoing infection of pathogenic members of the Borrelia Brdorferi complex. And, according to ilads research published in their treatment guidelines, the consequences of untreated persistent lyme infection far outweigh the potential consequences of long-term antibiotic therapy in well-designed trials of antibiotic retreatment in patients with severe fatigue, 64% in the treatment arm obtained clinically significant and sustained benefit from additional antibiotic therapy. Ilas emphasizes that cases of chronic borrelia require individualized treatment plans, and when necessary antibiotic therapy should be extended their research demonstrates that 20 days of prophylactic antibiotic treatment may be highly effective for preventing the onset of lyme disease. After known tick bites and patients with early Lyme disease may be best served by receiving 4 to 6 weeks of antibiotic therapy. Research published in Pmc. Shows that patients with untreated infections may go on to develop chronic, debilitating, multisystem illnesses that is difficult to manage, and numerous studies have documented persistent Borrelia, burgdorferi infection in patients with persistent symptoms of neurological lyme disease following short course. Antibiotic treatment and animal models have demonstrated that short course. Antibiotic therapy may fail to eradicate lyme spirochetes short course is a 1 day. One pill treatment of doxycycline. Or less than 20 days of antibiotics, is considered a short course. It’s not long enough to kill the bacteria. The bacteria’s life cycle is about 21 days, so if you don’t treat the infection long enough, the likelihood of that infection returning is significant. They’ve also done studies in the petri dish, where they show doxycycline being put into a petri dish with active lyme and doxycycline does not kill the infection, it just slows the replication of it. Therefore, using only doxycycline, which is common practice in lyme disease may not completely eradicate that infection for you. So let’s talk about another life threatening emergency. C. Diff clostridia difficile infection, which represents another example where antibiotic treatment is absolutely essential, despite the fact that C diff itself is often triggered by antibiotic use. According to Cleveland clinic C. Diff is estimated to cause almost half a million infections in the United States each year, with 500,000 infections, causing 15,000 deaths each year. Studies reported by Pmc. Found thirty-day Cdi. Mortality rates ranging from 6 to 11% and hospitalized Cdi patients have significantly increased the risk of mortality and complications. Research published in Pmc shows that 16.5% of Cdi patients experience sepsis and that this increases with reoccurrences 27.3% of patients with their 1st reoccurrence experience sepsis. While 33.1% with 2 reoccurrences and 43.2% with 3 or more reoccurrences. Mortality associated with sepsis is very high within hospital 30 days and 12 month mortality rates of 24%, 30% and 58% respectively. According to the Cdc treatment for C diff infection usually involves taking a specific antibiotic, such as vancomycin for at least 10 days, and while this seems counterintuitive, treating an antibiotic associated infection with more antibiotics. It’s often lifesaving. Now let’s talk about preventing devastating complications. Strep throat infections. Provide perhaps the clearest example of when antibiotic treatment prevents serious long-term consequences, and, according to Mayo clinic, if untreated strep throat can cause complications such as kidney inflammation and rheumatic fever. Rheumatic fever can lead to painful and inflamed joints, and a specific type of rash of heart valve damage. We also know that strep can cause pans pandas, which is a systemic infection, often causing problems with severe Ocd. And anxiety and affecting mostly young people. The research is unambiguous. According to the Cleveland clinic. Rheumatic fever is a rare complication of untreated strep, throat, or scarlet fever that most commonly affects children and teens, and in severe cases it can lead to serious health problems that can affect your child’s heart. Joints and organs. And research also shows that the rate of development of rheumatic fever in individuals with untreated strep infections is estimated to be 3%. The incidence of reoccurrence with a subsequent untreated infection is substantially greater. About 50% the rate of development is far lower in individuals who have received antibiotic treatment. And according to the World health organization, rheumatic heart disease results from the inflammation and scarring of the heart valves caused by rheumatic fever, and if rheumatic fever is not treated promptly, rheumatic heart disease may occur, and rheumatic heart disease weakens the valves between the chambers of the heart, and severe rheumatic heart disease can require heart surgery and result in death. The who states that rheumatic heart disease remains the leading cause of maternal cardiac complications during pregnancy. And additionally, according to the National Kidney foundation. After your child has either had throat or skin strep infection, they can develop post strep glomerial nephritis. The Strep bacteria travels to the kidneys and makes the filtering units of the kidneys inflamed, causing the kidneys to be able to unable or less able to fill and filter urine. This can develop one to 2 weeks after an untreated throat infection, or 3 to 4 weeks after an untreated skin infection. We need to find balance. And here’s what I want you to understand. Questioning the medical establishment and developing health literacy doesn’t mean rejecting all medical interventions. It means developing the wisdom to know when they’re necessary and lifesaving versus when they’re unnecessary and potentially harmful. When I see patients with confirmed lyme disease, serious strep infections or life. Threatening conditions like C diff. I don’t hesitate to recommend appropriate therapy but I also work to support their overall health address, root causes, protect and restore their gut microbiome and help them recover their natural resilience. The goal isn’t to avoid all medical interventions. It’s to use them wisely when truly needed, while simultaneously supporting your body’s inherent healing capacity and addressing the lifestyle factors that created the vulnerability. In the 1st place. All of this can be extremely overwhelming, and it can be frightening to understand or learn. But remember, the power that you have is knowledge. The more you learn about what’s actually happening in your health, in understanding nutrition. in learning what your body wants to be fed, and how it feels, and working with practitioners who are holistic in nature, natural, integrative, functional, whatever we want to call that these days. The more you can learn from them, the more control you have over your own health and what I would urge you to do is to teach your children what you’re learning. Teach them how to live a healthy lifestyle, teach them how to keep a clean environment. This is how we take back our own health. So thank you for joining me today on, let’s talk wellness. Now, if this episode resonated with you. Please share it with someone who could benefit from understanding how the Rockefeller medical system has shaped our approach to health, and how to reclaim your body’s wisdom while using medical care appropriately when truly needed. Remember, wellness isn’t just about feeling good. It’s about understanding your body, trusting its wisdom, supporting its natural healing capacity, and knowing when to seek appropriate medical intervention. If you’re ready to explore how functional medicine can help you develop this deeper health knowledge while addressing root causes rather than just managing symptoms. You can get more information from serenityhealthcarecenter.com, or reach out directly to us through our social media channels until next time. I’m Dr. Dab, reminding you that your body is your wisest teacher. Learn to listen, trust the process, use medical care wisely when needed, and take care of your body, mind, and spirit. Be well, and we’ll see you on the next episode.The post Episode 250 -The Great Medical Deception first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb 0:01When your body speaks but no one listens, when your pain is dismissed as all in your head, when you’re told it’s just stress for the fifth time while your health deteriorates, you’re not crazy. You’re being medically gaslit. Did you know women in America are up to 30% more likely to be misdiagnosed than men? Or that when experiencing a heart attack, women are seven times more likely to be sent home from the ER? This isn’t just about feeling heard, it’s about survival. Dr. Deb 0:56And what if I told you that mysterious symptoms you’ve been battling for  years have real physical causes, and that you’ve been overlooked because of your gender?  But I’m pulling back the curtain on one of the most dangerous epidemics in healthcare,  the systemic dismissal of women’s health concerns,  and what you can do to finally be seen, supported, and strong. Welcome back to Let’s Talk Wellness Now, the show where we uncover the root causes of chronic  illness, explore cutting-edge regenerative medicine, and empower you with the tools to heal.  I’m Dr. Deb, and today I’m diving into medical gaslighting and the epidemic of misdiagnosis that affects millions of women. Dr. Deb 1:41If you or someone you have been diagnosed with that you love with a chronic condition or are struggling with unexplained neurological symptoms like fatigue, brain fog, numbness, or chronic pain, this episode is for you. So grab a cup of coffee, tea, or whatever helps you unwind and settle in. Let’s get started on your journey to deeper healing. Dr. Deb 2:03So today’s episode, Silence and Dismissed, Breaking Free from Medical Gaslighting in Women’s Healthcare. What if your symptoms aren’t your true diagnosis? Today, I’m exploring how women’s health concerns are systemically dismissed, misdiagnosed, or undertreated in our current healthcare system. I’ll reveal the shocking statistics and historical biases that have created a dangerous epidemic of medical gaslighting. Dr. Deb 2:36Many of you know, three years ago, I found myself on the other side of the exam table. After experiencing troubling neurological symptoms, I was diagnosed with MS. And for three years, I lived with that diagnosis, constantly wondering about my future. But recently, in June of 2024, a new MRI revealed something different. Dr. Deb 3:06My brain wasn’t showing the progressive lesions typically of MS. Instead, my neurologist now believes I experienced post-COVID peripheral neuropathy. Crazy ride, isn’t it? I have lesions in my brain. They’re not progressing like MS, but they created some damage in my brain. Dr. Deb 3:30In October of 2024, I did a brain MRI with a researcher, Dr. Goodenow, who you guys have heard me talk about before. And after being on a protocol that he and I developed together to help my condition, my brain lesions have not only not progressed, but I have increased or grown my gray matter of my brain by 1.4, 1.5. Sorry, I got to give that little extra point in there. This is amazing because as we age, we lose gray matter. Dr. Deb 4:01We know that. And up until now, there’s really been no way for us to show or even know if we’ve improved brain health or not. Well, this new MRI technology that he’s utilizing has been able to document the protocol that we’re doing is actually working and it is growing my brain instead of allowing my brain to shrink with age, which would typically happen. Dr. Deb 4:30We are stopping those lesions from progressing. MS or post-COVID peripheral neuropathy, it doesn’t really matter what the name of this problem is. The lesions are there. Dr. Deb 4:43They’re affecting my prefrontal lobe. And I am trying to prevent any consequences or any symptoms that could result of that. So what this journey has taught me is essentially the truth that I share with my patients. Dr. Deb 4:57True health lies not in chasing a diagnosis, but in pursuing wellness itself. You know, the statistics around women’s healthcare are truly alarming. When a woman enters an emergency room with severe abdominal pain, she’ll wait 33% longer than a man with identical symptoms. Dr. Deb 5:20Approximately 66% of women report receiving a misdiagnosis in the last two years. Think about that. Two thirds of women are being told that they have conditions they don’t actually have. Dr. Deb 5:35While their real health issues remain untreated, and the condition that they were told they had either isn’t treated at all, or they’re given the wrong medication because it’s the wrong diagnosis. This is not about incompetent doctors. It’s about a system built on incomplete science. Dr. Deb 5:57Did you know until the 1990s, women were routinely excluded from medical research and clinical trials? The assumption was that the male body was representative of the human species. So why study women separately? You know, women are not small men. Their bodies function differently at a cellular level. Dr. Deb 6:20And even today, this knowledge gap persists. Medical textbooks still primarily focus on how diseases present in men, while women often experience entirely different symptoms. Take heart attacks. Dr. Deb 6:34Men typically feel crushing chest pain, while women more commonly experience fatigue and shortness of breath, or pain in the jaw, the neck, the back. And when women feel symptoms that don’t match the classic male pattern, they’re dismissed, as you’ve guessed it, anxiety or stress. You’re just too overwhelmed with raising your children. Dr. Deb 6:56You’re burning the candle at both ends. And while some of that may be true, that is not the reason for your symptoms. This misdiagnosis epidemic isn’t just frustrating, it’s deadly. Dr. Deb 7:11It leads to delayed treatments, worsening conditions, unnecessary procedures, and preventable deaths. And for conditions like endometriosis, did you know the average delay in diagnosis is 7 to 10 years? Not months, years. For autoimmune diseases, which affect women at rates up to three times higher than men, that diagnostic journey can span a decade or more. Dr. Deb 7:42Now we’re going to take a break here and have a word from our sponsor, and we’re going to be right back to talk more about medical gaslighting and its roots. Welcome back, everybody. What is medical gaslighting anyway? Well, this happens when health care providers dismiss, minimize, or psychologize physical symptoms. Dr. Deb 8:09It’s when you’re told your debilitating fatigue is just depression, your crushing chest pain is just anxiety, or you’re disabling pain. It’s got to be all in your head. According to recent surveys, about 72% of the millennial women report experiencing medical gaslighting. Dr. Deb 8:35And for women of color, the statistics are even more alarming. While research showing they face compounded biases at every level of care. But why does this happen? The roots run deep, all the way back to ancient Greece, when Hippocrates first used hysteria as a formal diagnosis. Dr. Deb 8:58And throughout history, women’s bodies have been viewed as mysterious, unpredictable, and fundamentally flawed versions of the male body. What a crock. This bias isn’t always conscious. Dr. Deb 9:16Even well-meaning doctors operate within a system that has trained them to view women’s symptoms through a skeptical lens. And the problem is compounded by several factors. First, there’s the knowledge gap. Dr. Deb 9:30As Dr. Mark Gordon, a leading expert in neuroinflammation has demonstrated, male and female brains respond differently to identical triggers. The same is true for hormonal systems, immune responses, and even drug metabolism. Yet most medical protocols don’t account for these differences. Dr. Deb 9:53Second, there’s time pressure. The average primary care visit lasts a little longer than you probably think, but just 17 minutes. Barely enough time to address one concern, let alone a complex constellation of symptoms that don’t fit neatly into a diagnostic category. Dr. Deb 10:15When I see clients for the first time, we’re spending well over an hour just having a conversation, and another hour in doing diagnostics in my office, so that we can understand individually what’s happening with each client that we see, male or female. A far difference from the 17 minutes. Did you know that practitioners are taught that if someone complains of more than two symptoms, it must be depression or anxiety? That’s how our medical system is training these days. Dr. Deb 10:54When I was training, it was completely different, and I was blessed to be trained by a pioneer in medicine who was trained even differently than I was, and trained at a time where we didn’t have a lot of medications, we didn’t have a lot of testing options, so your conversation, your history, your exam had to tell you what was going on with that client. It makes a huge difference today. This is just, I don’t know, it’s craziness to me at this point. Dr. Deb 11:25Thirdly, there’s implicit biases. Studies show that healthcare providers of all genders consistently rate women’s pain as less severe than men’s, even when the reported pain levels are identical. Women are twice as likely to be diagnosed with mental health conditions when presenting with symptoms that suggest a physical cause. Dr. Deb 11:53This kind of gaslighting creates a vicious cycle. Women begin to doubt their own experiences, become hesitant to seek care, and lose trust in the medical system. They may stop advocating for themselves, or conversely become labeled as difficult patients when they push for answers, and oftentimes these women then are dismissed from the practice because they’re thought of as being non-compliant. Dr. Deb 12:23My own journey through the healthcare maze taught me lessons I now use to help thousands of women reclaim their health. When my brain scan first showed lesions, I was quickly diagnosed with MS, but unlike many women, I didn’t just accept that diagnosis and the treatment plan that came with it. As both a patient and a practitioner, I knew that healing requires looking at the whole picture, not just at a label. Dr. Deb 12:52I investigated every possibility that could explain my symptoms. Mold exposure, chronic infection, hormonal collapse, mitochondrial dysfunction, and I focused on healing while continuing to seek answers, and today my brain is actually reversing in age with improving gray matter and a clear sign that my approach is working. Take Maria, a 42-year-old executive who came to me after seeing eight different doctors for crushing fatigue, brain fog, and weight gain. Dr. Deb 13:26She’d been told she had depression, prescribed antidepressants, and when those didn’t work, she was told to reduce her stress level. By the time she found me, her thyroid was barely functioning. She had significant adrenal dysfunction, and testing revealed multiple chronic infections. Dr. Deb 13:46Stories like Maria’s and mine repeat themselves daily in my practice, and women struggling with the autoimmune conditions, inexplicable pain, and debilitating fatigue, or mysterious neurological symptoms who’ve been told repeatedly that their labs are quote-unquote normal, and they should just learn to live with it. But here’s what I’ve learned. When we truly listen to women, when we respect their intuitive knowledge of their own bodies, when we investigate deeply enough, we almost always find answers, and with those answers come solutions, healing, and hope. Dr. Deb 14:30So what’s the solution to this systemic problem? It requires change at multiple levels, but it begins with empowering women to advocate for themselves effectively. First, trust your body. Your symptoms are real, and you deserve care that acknowledges that reality. Dr. Deb 14:51As Dr. Daniel Amen has demonstrated through thousands of brain scans, your mental and physical symptoms have psychological origins that can be identified and treated when we look deeply enough. Second, become your own health advocate. Track your symptoms meticulously, noting patterns and triggers, and the specific impact on your daily functioning. Dr. Deb 15:17When you visit a healthcare practitioner, bring this data with you. It’s harder to dismiss documented patterns than general complaints. Third, don’t go alone if possible. Dr. Deb 15:30Studies show that having an advocate present during medical appointments significantly increases the likelihood of being taken seriously, and this person can take notes, ask follow-up questions, and provide confirmation of your experiences. Fourth, be prepared to be persistent. If you’re not getting answers, seek second, third, or even fourth opinions, and look for practitioners who specialize in functional medicine, integrative approaches, or women’s health specifically. Dr. Deb 16:05Fifth, know that you have options beyond conventional medicine. While I believe in working with traditional healthcare when appropriate, complementary approaches like functional medicine can offer solutions where conventional approaches have failed. At my practice, I see women daily who’ve been medically gaslit for years before finding us. Dr. Deb 16:22Our approach begins with comprehensive testing, not just the standard panels that only flag disease once it’s advanced, but functional testing that can identify patterns of dysfunction before they become pathological. I look at the whole picture, hormones, micronutrients, toxin exposure, gut health, inflammation markers, genetic predispositions, and more. My team and I understand the symptoms in one system often originate in another, and that healing requires addressing root causes rather than merely suppressing symptoms, and oftentimes it requires a team of experts to look at your case. Dr. Deb 17:09The future I envision is one where women don’t have to fight to be believed, where their symptoms are investigated with the same rigor as men’s, and where their intuitive knowledge about their own bodies is respected rather than dismissed. This isn’t just about fairness. It’s about saving lives. Dr. Deb 17:26It’s about preventing the needless suffering that occurs when diagnosis comes too late. It’s about creating a healthcare system that serves everyone equally. It’s about bringing women back to the bargaining table, about having a say in how they feel. Dr. Deb 17:43It’s about partnering with women to get the best out of their healthcare that they possibly can. It’s about providing a system of medicine that works for all of us, not for one of us. Thank you for joining me today on Let’s Talk Wellness Now. Dr. Deb 18:02If this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who could benefit from learning about medically gaslighting and how to advocate for better healthcare. Remember, wellness isn’t just about feeling good. It’s about thriving in every area of your life. Dr. Deb 18:19If you’re ready to explore how functional medicine and root cause healing can help you overcome challenges of misdiagnosis, visit us at serenityhealthcarecenter.com or reach out to me through our social media channels. Until next time, I’m Dr. Deb reminding you to take care of your body, mind and spirit. Be well and I’ll see you on the next episode. Dr. Deb 18:44And do me one favor. If this episode resonates with you or you know somebody that’s being medically gaslit, please share it, like and subscribe to our channel. It really helps us grow and spread the word of integrative medicine and root cause medicine. Dr. Deb 19:04Thank you for sharing your time with me today. As always, we’ll see you and be well.The post Episode 249 – SILENCED & DISMISSED: Breaking Free from Medical Gaslighting in Women's Healthcare first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb 0:01Welcome to Let's Talk wellness now. I'm your host, Dr Deb Muth, and today we're diving into one of my favorite healing tools, infrared sauna therapy and how it's transforming detox, longevity and recovery. If you've ever struggled with fatigue, brain fog or stubborn inflammation. You've probably heard me talk about how toxins […] The post Episode 248 – Healing Through Heat: How Infrared Saunas Detox, Restore, and Rejuvenate the Body first appeared on Let's Talk Wellness Now.

Dr. Deb 0:00Did you know that the average American child today consumes over 3000 food additives, chemicals that were never tested for long term safety, or that since the 1980s childhood chronic disease rates have tripled, while pharmaceutical profits have grown 1,000% Dr. Deb 0:19for 25 years, integrative medicine practitioners have been sounding the alarm […]

D. Deb 0:00Yeah, so today's episode on Let's Talk wellness. Now we are diving into the world of mold. Many of you have heard me speak about mold in the past. It has been a pillar in my own recovery of Ms. And today, I want you to meet a dear friend of mine. Her […]

Dr. Deb MuthSo what if your symptoms aren't actually your true diagnosis, but rather your body's response to toxic mold exposure in your living environment.What if there's now a way to eliminate mold throughout your entire home, even in places you can't see without tearing down walls or displacing your family for weeks. Today I […]

Dr. Deb 0:00Welcome back to Let's Talk wellness now, the show where we uncover the root causes of chronic illness, explore cutting edge regenerative medicine and empower you with the tools to heal. I'm Dr Deb, and today we're diving into the revolutionary world of regenerative medicine and how it's transforming the treatment of chronic […]

Dr. Deb 0:00These aren't miracle cures. This is science delivering precisely what your body needs exactly where it needs it. Today on Let's Talk wellness. Now. We're exploring how IV therapy is truly faster than food, revolutionizing wellness as you know it. Dr. Deb 0:23Welcome to Let's Talk wellness now the Podcast where we explore […]

Dr. Deb 0:00But the doctor told me it was just anxiety. Three days later, I was in the emergency room having a heart attack. For eight years, they said my symptoms were depression. Turns out it was Lyme disease. These people weren't crazy. They weren't overreacting. They were right all along today on Let's Talk […]

Dr. Deb 0:00Welcome to Let's Talk wellness now, the podcast where we challenge the status quo of healthcare and empower you with knowledge to take control of your health. I'm Dr Deb, and today we're diving into the topic that affects us all, the broken healthcare system, and what can we do about it while […]

In today's video, we're diving deep into the transformative power of the carnivore diet and how it can help heal the gut-brain barrier, reduce inflammation, and improve symptoms of neurological conditions like Multiple Sclerosis (MS).

Join Dr. Deb in this exciting episode of Let's Talk Wellness Now as she dives into the groundbreaking world of exosomes—a revolutionary therapy at the forefront of regenerative medicine. Discover how these tiny cellular messengers are transforming anti-aging, neurological health, and healing, offering hope for conditions once thought untreatable. From their ability to reverse aging at the cellular level to their potential to cross the blood-brain barrier and repair damaged tissues, this episode explores why exosomes are being hailed as the future of medicine. Whether you're curious about cutting-edge wellness trends or considering exosome therapy yourself, this episode is packed with insights to empower your health journey!

Dr. Deb 0:00Welcome to Let's Talk wellness now, the podcast where we deep dive into the science of health, wellness and everything you need to live your best life. I'm your host. Doctor Deb Muth, founder of serenity, Health Care Center and serenity, esthetics and wellness. Here on the show, we don't just talk about […]

The Hidden Dangers of Mycotoxins: Unraveling the Mystery of Mold Illness Dr. Deb 0:01welcome back to Let's Talk wellness now. I'm your host, Dr, Deb, and I'm so thrilled to have you with me today. If you've been searching for answers to mysterious health issues, whether they're unexplained fatigue, brain fog or persistent headaches, then […]

In this episode of Let's Talk Wellness Now, Dr. Deb Muth reveals the hidden connection between mitochondrial dysfunction and chronic conditions like Multiple Sclerosis and chronic fatigue.

Dr. Deb 0:00Welcome to the podcast. Before we begin, there is a disclaimer we have to make. Let's talk wellness now brings expert insights directly to you. Please note that the views and information shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Let's Talk wellness now its management or […]

Deb 0:00Welcome to the podcast. Before we begin, there is a disclaimer we have to make. Let's talk wellness now brings expert insights directly to you. Please note that the views and information shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Let's Talk wellness now its management or our […]

In this episode of Let's Talk Wellness Now, we explore the fascinating connection between hormones and neurological health, focusing on how declining estrogen levels may influence the development, severity, and progression of multiple sclerosis (MS) in women. Estrogen isn't just a reproductive hormone—it plays a vital role in brain health, immune regulation, and even myelin repair. Join us as we delve into: The neuroprotective benefits of estrogen and its role in modulating inflammation and oxidative stress. How hormonal changes, such as menopause, affect MS symptoms and relapse rates. The potential of hormone replacement therapy (HRT) as a tool to stabilize symptoms and slow progression in menopausal women with MS. Practical considerations for personalized approaches to hormonal health and ongoing research on this critical topic. Whether you're managing MS, curious about hormone health, or a healthcare provider looking to expand your knowledge, this episode offers valuable insights into the interplay between estrogen and neurological well-being. Tune in to gain expert insights that could transform the way you think about hormonal health and MS management!

The podcast episode discusses the presence of toxic chemicals in food, particularly focusing on additives, pesticides, and herbicides. Dr. Deb highlights the stricter regulations in Europe compared to the US, citing glyphosate as a carcinogen and its prevalence in food despite known health risks. She emphasizes the impact of these chemicals on health, including increased cancer risk and endocrine disruption, leading to fertility issues and behavioral changes in children. Practical tips for cleaner eating include choosing organic foods, avoiding artificial dyes and preservatives, and considering elimination diets. Dr. Deb advocates for consumer awareness and action to push for safer food policies. Action Items • Choose organic foods whenever possible, especially for the "Dirty Dozen" produce items. • Read food labels carefully and avoid products containing artificial dyes, titanium dioxide, and high fructose corn syrup. • Look for non-GMO certification as an indicator of fewer synthetic pesticides. • Consider trying an elimination diet by removing foods with artificial dyes and additives for 2 weeks, then reintroducing them one at a time. • Educate children about the effects of certain food additives and empower them to make informed choices.

Dr. Deb shared her personal journey of being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (MS) and her decision to pursue alternative healing methods rather than conventional immunosuppressive drugs. Initially, she experienced symptoms like fatigue, brain fog, and tingling in her toes, which she initially attributed to post-COVID effects. After a brain MRI confirmed her diagnosis, she opted for a holistic approach, focusing on detoxification, an anti-inflammatory diet, supplements, and mindfulness. She discovered underlying causes like tick-borne diseases, mycotoxins, and nutrient deficiencies. Her journey emphasized the importance of listening to one's body and exploring individualized treatment paths. Action Items * Share the speaker's book about her MS journey and the protocols she developed. * Encourage listeners to explore alternative, holistic approaches to chronic illness instead of just accepting conventional treatments. * Promote the importance of proactive brain health monitoring and addressing underlying root causes of neurological conditions.

What happens when the trust we place in healthcare leads to devastating consequences? In this episode of Let's Talk Wellness Now we uncover the shocking reality of medical misdiagnosis—a silent crisis affecting millions every year. With jaw-dropping statistics, heartbreaking personal stories, and insights from seasoned experts, we explore the ripple effects of misdiagnosis on patients, […]

Speaker 1 0:00Deb, hello and welcome back to Let's Talk wellness out. I'm Dr Deb Muth, and I'm thrilled to be back on the air with you. It has been a journey getting here, and if you're tuning in after our break, I want to thank you for sticking with us, your patience, your support […]

Learn to tune into what you want to have a fun, fulfilling, fuck-yeah life— without overcomplicating everything. Are you tired of saying yes to everyone and everything and then being angry that you didn't listen to yourself? Do you need tools to live the life you want? Join Kristen King and Dr. Deb chat about … Continue reading Episode 224: Learn How To Tune Out All The Fear That Paralyzes You From Living Your Life! With Kristen King

Managing health is an important aspect for women. Why is it we seem to be better at advocating health for others but not ourselves? Susan shares her research about how women make health decisions and what to do when you see the doctor.  Do not miss these highlights: 06:08 The things women have in common … Continue reading Episode 223: Sidelined – How Women Manage & Mismanage Their Health with Susan Salenger

How to use labs and genetics to beat your disease. You don't have to be chained to a medication when you work with your body's genetic makeup and biology. Do not miss these highlights: 03:31 Sandy's story and how she got started in this journey 08:48 How medicine fails many people 10:33 The struggles of … Continue reading Episode 222: Battling Depression without Medication with Sandie Gascon

The science behind structured water and how it is repairing our body's cells and reversing our biological age up to 12 years! Do not miss these highlights: 01:00 Mario Brunovich to discusses the benefits of structured water, which can improve cellular structures in the body and plant life. 05:16 Water exists in chaotic state, technology … Continue reading Episode 221: Water, Cells and Life with Mario Brainovic

Identifying your hidden hunger can help you break the overeating and stress eating once and for all. 01:00 Dr. Melissa McCreary discusses breaking the cycle of being overwhelmed, overloaded and overeating without feeling deprived. Dr. McCreary talks about the power of the mind and how our negative messages affect our food choices. 09:07 Identifying and … Continue reading Episode 220: Hidden Hungers with  Dr. Melissa McCreery

Can stress really cause debilitating pain? Fran Graton shares her story on how it completely changed her life. You do not have to live with pain it can be not only managed but it can be eliminated as well. Fran shares how it can be done. Do not miss these highlights: 09:52 What happens when … Continue reading Episode 219: Overcoming Chronic Pain Naturally with Fran Garton

Did you know postpartum depression affects 20% of the women who give birth? You might be 80 years old and finally discover that you suffered from postpartum depression. There is help for people who suffer from postpartum depression and it doesn't always include medication. Dr. Kat shares why it's so essential for us to support...

Are men pussy whipped or are women in control? Traditional women actually control more of the relationship than they think and it is not because they hold the gem. It is because men are afraid of rejection, misunderstanding and sharing their true feelings. Dr. Weiss shares how to help men open up to have more...

Are you tired of the world running you? Do you want to have control over your emotions once and for all? Faust shares what you can do to control anxiety and beat depression naturally. Dr. Deb and Faust discuss why medication doesn't work and why people experience a crisis 15 years after starting medication.  Do...

Peptides are a well-kept secret they reduce inflammation and produce growth factors. Dr. Deb shares how to identify where the inflammation is actually coming from and what tests are necessary to determine what type and how much inflammation is present in the body.  Do not miss these highlights: 00:46 What are peptides? 01:50 What happens...

How can you create the healthiest version of you not just for the short term but for a lifetime? Phillip Pape shares how he transformed his body during the pandemic and shares his secrets for skyrocketing one's metabolism.  Do not miss these highlights: 02:51 How did Philip get into the world of nutrition and healthy...

Have you suffered from vaginal laxity, urinary incontinence, leakage, and decreased sexual pleasure? Are you embarrassed to talk about it with your doctor or your friends? It's ok to talk about it and more importantly it is ok to do something to fix the problem! Mary Ellen Reider shares her invention the Yar Lap to...

Johnathan Royale shares how to stop the shoulding and shitting all over yourself by using hypnosis to heal the trauma once and for all. At the age of 13, he became the youngest hypnotherapist in the UK. Today he helps celebs heal their lives.  Do not miss these highlights: 15:51 The 3 things that helped...

There are 4 body types recognized by the weight loss industry. The new skinny fat person is growing. But Marc is going to show that it isn't your fault! It is genetic and correlates to your spine. Once you know this and learn how to exercise properly your metabolism changes, weight can come off and...

Are you tired of dieting? Are you failing at your weight loss goals? You can lose weight at any age, you can get fit at any age. Diet is a lifestyle change not a temporary fix to loosing weight.  Do not miss these highlights: 05:11 Age shouldn't be an excuse for not starting to take...

There is a way to serve the world regardless of how negative your life may be now. No matter where you are at this time, a federal prison, a prison inside your mind, trapped by culture, finances, or a negative family. YOU CAN CHANGE! Join Dr. Deb and Dr. Fleet Maul as they discuss mindfulness...

Mold mycotoxins are known for causing demyelinating disease or MS. On an MRI it is seen as white matter brain disease. These mycotoxins create damage and cause autism, dementia, Alzheimer's disease and ALS to name a few diseases. Can we reverse demyelinating disease, short answer is yes-sometimes. It depends on how progressive the disease is...

Are you tired of exercising? Do you just want to move and have it count? Dr. Ben Reuter shares how to incorporate movement into your daily activities to make it work for you! Movement will forever change your life.  Do not miss these highlights: 04:20 How Dr. Ben got started in movement, and why is...

Can Lyme, Chlamydia, HHV6 or other infections cause white matter brain disease or MS? The research shows that Chlamydia Pneumonia and other diseases cross the blood-brain barrier. Dr. Muth shares what symptoms these infections cause and how to address them.  Do not miss these highlights: 03:37 Viruses and bacteria can be reactivated over time and...

Have you had a diagnosis that you knew wasn't right? MS (multiple sclerosis) is one of them. What else could it be? Join this series of episodes to explain why just because you have a diagnosis of white matter disease it may not be MS.  Do not miss these highlights: 01:24 You're not supposed to...

Dr. Gupta shares a personal story regarding inflammation and gut health problems that taught her about Ayurveda and healing. She now captures that energy and knowledge into teaching others and creating products that work. Do not miss these highlights: 01:41 Why do many women put aside self-care? 07:51 It will be a game changer if...