Podcast appearances and mentions of Amanda Cox

Amanda Cox reflects on her career path from the New York Times to Bloomberg News, highlighting her efforts to make data more accessible and meaningful through journalism. We dive into the shifts in data journalism—from scarce print real estate to the rise of AI tools—and how these transitions affect newsroom priorities, audience interaction, and storytelling techniques. Amanda emphasizes the importance of reducing friction for domain experts and considers the future implications of AI in data analysis and design.Keywords: data, data visualization, Amanda Cox, Data journalism, Bloomberg, USAFacts, AI in journalism, Visual storytelling, Data accessibility, Media evolutionSubscribe to the PolicyViz Podcast wherever you get your podcasts.Become a patron of the PolicyViz Podcast for as little as a buck a monthFollow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Substack, Twitter, Website, YouTubeEmail: jon@policyviz.com

Chris Fabry Live is going on the road to the Art of Writing Conference at the Christy Awards. We'll talk about how writers and readers process pain through Christian fiction. Novelist and psychologist Kelly Flanagan and Christy Award winner and therapist Amanda Cox will discuss their process of using pain to touch the hearts of readers. Don't miss this live seminar on Chris Fabry Live. Watch the Livestream of The Christy Award Gala at 7:00pm CT For more information about the work of Care Net, click here. Chris Fabry Live is listener-supported. To support the program, click here.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mariah and Shelia talk about Scottsville native Hope Gibbs visiting the library on September 17 at 1:00 pm to talk about her award-winning book, Where the Grass Grows Blue.  Other books discussed include: Doomsday Mother by John GlassI Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie SueThe Last Anniversary by Liane MoriartyOne of Us is Dead by Geneva RoseWhat Have You Done by Shari LapenaYou Should Have Told the Bees by Amanda Cox (2024 Christy Award Finalist)Appalachian Song by Michelle Shocklee (2024 Christy Award Finalist)Agatha Raisin Series by M.C. Beaton 

Today I'm delighted you to Amanda Cox. Her fourth novel, Between Sound and Sea, is one that I'm excited about because one of the threads takes place during the Uboat attacks along the North Carolina coast. As you can imagine, the two of us geeked out on all the cool research we did on this topic—her for this novel and me for my novella Across the Shores. She also wondered what it would be like to be a lighthouse keeper during blackouts...and that's what led to her modern heroine doing a renovation of a lighthouse. Between the Sound and Sea is a story of hope, healing, and finding a sense of belonging told between the two storylines of Joey and Mae. When I asked her what she would tell her younger writing self, she said to trust her process. Such great advice for any writer. Your process is your process. She's been a writer since she wrote and illustrated her first book as a seven-year-old and got her first rejection then too. Her biggest challenge is getting through the rough draft. I can relate to that one too! But the most fun is when the story thread clicks and she finds the symbolism. You're going to love getting to know Amanda! Connect with Amanda Cox Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

If you're looking for a beautiful end of summer read, Amanda's new novel Between the Sound and Sea is just the book for you. Join Meagan as she chats with Amanda about her writing style, the beauty of hope, and why this type of fiction is so important! Books Mentioned: Between the Sound and Sea by Amanda Cox Connect with Amanda: Website: ⁠⁠https://amandacoxwrites.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amandacoxwrites/ Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/amandacoxwrites/ Connect with Meagan: Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/faithandfablespodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/faithandfables

Who else could merge regret and lighthouses together except for award-winning author, Amanda Cox! Join this candid chat about her upcoming release and how history and the present are filled with both regrets and redemption.

Send us a Text Message.Today's guest is Amanda Cox. Amanda is a therapist-turned-novelist who pens stories about characters finding hope, healing, and a sense of belonging. She resides in Tennessee with her husband and three children. Her latest novel, Between the Sound and Sea, comes out on August 6th, 2024.Episode Highlights:Favorite Book to Write: She shares which of her books was her favorite to write and why.Latest Novel: A deep dive into Between the Sound and Sea.Connections with Characters: A heartfelt discussion on how stories connect us with characters and each other.Writing Process: Her unique perspective on how writing teaches her to trust in God and have faith.Book Flight: Books with themes of found family, which she endearingly calls her "catnip."Happy listening! You can connect with Amanda at the links below:InstagramFacebookWebsitePurchase Between the Sound and Sea (Release date - 08/06/24)If you want more Bookish Flights, please consider becoming a supporter on Patreon! Stay tuned for more member exclusive content to come!Show NotesSome links are affiliate links, which are no extra cost to you but do help to support the show.Books and authors mentioned in the episode:Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson RawlsCole and Laila are Just Friends by Bethany TurnerBook FlightOther Birds by Sarah Addison AllenWest with Giraffes by Lynda RutledgeThe Happy Life of Isadora Bentley by Courtney WalshI'd love for you to join the Bookish Flights community on social media, you can connect and/or share the links below. Thank you for being here!Support the Show.Be sure to join the Bookish Flights community on social media. Happy listening! Instagram Facebook Website

Im Pride Radio sprach Cornelia Kost mit Amanda Cox, Didine van der Platenvlotbrug & Magnif.ck über die CDU als Ally, rechte Talkingpoints, öffentliche Gewalt gegen Drag und ob die Stadt ein "safe space" sein kann. Weiterlesen →

 Have you ever noticed that some authors do this annoying thing where they take what you thought was your favorite book and then tell you about another book coming and boom! You're all out of sorts because that one's totally going to be a favorite?  Well, now you know how I feel about Between the Sound and Sea. Listen in to see what book is the current fave and what probably will be.  note: links may be affiliate links that provide me with a small commission at no extra expense to you.  Oh, boy!  I don't think I've ever met anyone who didn't love a good lighthouse story, and notes from a log book tucked into the stone walls of a lighthouse?  Sign me up, please! Amanda shares her stories of going to the Outer Banks and chatting with a man who runs an antique store out of his house.  I've GOT to see that place!  Don't miss out on the GoodReads giveaway going on through August... something.    Between the Sound and Sea by Amanda Cox  Every family has its secrets. Josephina Harris wouldn't mind if her family still had a few of their own after a lawsuit tarnishes their name. When an opportunity opens to become a temporary keeper of a decommissioned lighthouse on a North Carolina island, she jumps at the chance to escape her small town to oversee its restoration.     As the work begins, "Joey" discovers strange notes tucked deep in the crevices of the old stone walls--pages torn from a lighthouse keeper's log signed by someone named Mae who recounts harrowing rescues at sea. Fascinated by a woman lighthouse keeper, Joey digs into the past only to discover there's never been a record of a lighthouse keeper by that name.   When things start to go amiss on the island, locals are convinced that it is the ghost of the lighthouse keeper and his daughter who were lost at sea during World War II. As Joey sifts through decades of rumors and legends and puts together the pieces of the past, what emerges is a love story--one that's not over yet.   Multiple Christy Award winner Amanda Cox is your guide upon the raging seas of young love, heartbreaking loss, and learning to risk it all for a chance at happiness in this timeless novel. Get Between the Sound and Sea for 40% off with free shipping from Bakerbookhouse.com through August 5, 2024 Learn more about Amanda Cox on her WEBSITE. Follow her on BookBub and GoodReads. Like to listen on the go? You can find Because Fiction Podcast at: Apple  Castbox  Google Play Libsyn  RSS Spotify Amazon and more!

Amanda Cox, Director of the WATER Institute at Saint Louis University, joined Megan Lynch and Tom Ackerman to recap the flooding issue created from excessive rains in the region yesterday and the Nashville, Illinois dam.

Amanda Cox and Anselmo Torres III debate some interesting topics.I'm Moshe Crane connect with me on LinkedIn. My day job is the VP of Branding and Strategic Initiatives at Sage Ventures.Sage Ventures is a commercial real estate firm based in Baltimore, MD. The company buys and operates multifamily rental properties. The company also builds and develops homes that we sell.

This episode of Beyond The Stats features a conversation between SPAAR Communications Director Jennifer Kovacich, and two local Realtors®, Susan Mall and Amanda Cox. Together they cover a wide range of topics related to current conditions, trends, and advice for buyers and sellers in the local market.

What does bee keeping, family secrets, and unknown wills have in common? They can sting. Join Amanda Cox and your host, Author Jaime Jo Wright as we explore the story behind the story of "He Should Have Told the Bees".

If you've seen the cover of He Should Have Told the Bees by Amanda Cox, you know why women's fiction lovers are all drumming their fingers for Tuesday's release.  If you haven't seen it, you should go check it out right now. Because this stunning cover is just beautiful wrapping for what promises to be a beautiful (but heartwrenching I suspect) story. Listen in for more about it and a hint at what's to come!   Note: links may be affiliate links that provide me with a small commission at no extra expense to you. How Can Family Secrets Both Damage Relationships & Unite People? Having just finished The Keeper of the Bees by Gene Stratton-Porter last month (great book. Probably a wonderful companion to this one. Rich faith, too!), I am even more excited to read He Should Have Told the Bees. Who doesn't love a surprise inheritance story--especially when part of the surprise is to the one who assumes she's inheriting her father's legacy only to discover she's got to share it--with a stranger! I don't know about you, but that sounds pretty good. As a beekeeper herself, Amanda Cox brings some experience to the table, which I'm confident will result in a story that will resonate with readers.  Just the story of how she chose this one as her next book is enough to bring a smile to anyone's face. We also got a hint of what's coming next, so don't miss that. He Should Have Told the Bees by Amanda Cox Uncovering long-held family secrets may sting at first--but the result can be sweeter than honey. Beekeeper Beckett Walsh is living her dream, working alongside her father in their apiary until his untimely death sends her world into a tailspin. She suddenly finds she must deal with a new part owner of the family business--one who is looking to sell the property. Beck cannot fathom why her father would put her in the position to lose everything they built together. When Callie Peterson is named in the trust of a man she's never heard of, she's not sure what to do. Her fledgling business has just taken wing and her mother has reentered her life asking for help getting into rehab for her lifelong substance abuse issues, making Callie's financial situation rather . . . precarious. She's sure she has no right to someone else's farm, but the money from the sale could solve her problems and give her the stability she's always craved. As these two women navigate their present conundrum, they will discover a complex and entangled past full of secrets--and the potential for a brighter future for both of them. Learn more about Amanda Cox on her WEBSITE. Follow her on BookBub and GoodReads. Also, you have a few days to get He Should Have Told the Bees at 40% off with FREE shipping from BakerBookHouse.com. Like to listen on the go? You can find Because Fiction Podcast at: Apple  Castbox  Google Play Libsyn  RSS Spotify Amazon and more!

AMANDA COX - DOBYNS BENNETT DANCE TEAM/SPIRIT SHAKER COACHSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back to another episode of The Relatable Voice, today we are heading to Chatanooga, Tennessee to talk with Amanda Cox.  Amanda is a talented therapist-turned-novelist who captivates readers with her heartfelt stories of hope, healing, and the search for belonging. Her latest book: He Should Have Told the Bees is coming up in August.  Find out more at: https://amandacoxwrites.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to another episode of The Relatable Voice, today we are heading to Chatanooga, Tennessee to talk with Amanda Cox.  Amanda is a talented therapist-turned-novelist who captivates readers with her heartfelt stories of hope, healing, and the search for belonging. Her latest book: He Should Have Told the Bees is coming up in August.  Find out more at: https://amandacoxwrites.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Have you ever wondered why we often neglect our needs and put others first? Amanda Cox, a revered National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach, brings her wisdom to our conversation today, revealing the reality of our self-imposed constraints and the societal pressures that fuel them. This episode is an introspective journey into why we feel undeserving of rest and how our people-pleaser nature often takes the driver's seat. Amanda inspiringly recounts her path, which led her to entrepreneurship.We dive deeper as Amanda showcases the significance of discerning when to pull back and prioritize self-care. We uncover strategies to determine when it's time to reshuffle our focus and the vitality of establishing and respecting our limits. What are the tell-tale signs of self-sabotage, and how can we avoid falling into this trap? Amanda graciously shares these insights and more as we explore the beauty of empathizing with others' narratives. We conclude this enlightening discourse by emphasizing the necessity for personal evolution, reconciling with our past, and releasing ourselves from guilt and humiliation. Join us for this empowering exchange that accentuates the potency of honesty, adopting an abundance mindset, and how these can draw in better clients.Offer: Webinar to help set goals. Offer Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y4z38-fN2m665CW-_cAv_menK8lFOgpF/view?usp=share_linkSupport the showConnect with Wendy Manganaro: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendymanganaro1/

Lisa and Maria joined me to talk with Christy-award-winning author Amanda Cox about keeping secrets in relationships, how she decides how much Jesus to put into her stories, and how God used the death of her bees to teach her about His faithfulness in her writing.  https://livesteadyon.com/ Email Angie at: steadyonpodcast@gmail.com Facebook: @livesteadyon Instagram: @angiebaughman421  Grab freebies and subscribe to the weekly Steady On newsletter at: https://livesteadyon.com/live-steady-on-newsletter/  Looking for something not listed? It's probably here: https://linktr.ee/livesteadyon  https://amandacoxwrites.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amandacoxwrites/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amandacoxwrites/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/amandacoxwrites “The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery” and other novels by Amanda are available wherever books are sold. Theme music: Heartwarming by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3864-heartwarming License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ 

Brad & Laura talk to psychotherapist Amanda Cox - the woman at the centre of the brand new TV series 'Couples Therapy New Zealand'. She answered all of our burning relationship questions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Amanda Cox and Maddison McElroy have successfully brought inclusive wellness to the community of Columbus, Indiana, through their innovative Hive Wellness Center. But their goals are much bigger than just providing a service: they want to give everyone the right to wellness and fitness, regardless of their size, abilities, or finances. Wellness means having the capacity to say yes to the things that make you happy in your life. In this episode, you will be able to: Uncover the inclusive wellness services provided by Hive Columbus Wellness Center. Delve into the necessity of size-inclusivity in contemporary wellness industry practices. Gain insights on the health-at-every-size philosophy and its connection to holistic well-being. Investigate affordable payment alternatives and accessibility measures in the wellness business sphere. Recognize the value of Size-Inclusive Training Academy certification for professionals in the Wellness industry. And more! Get all the links, resources and show notes here: https://wellnesscentercreators.com Sponsored by Jane App, Jane offers online booking, charting, scheduling, secure video and invoicing on one secure, beautifully designed system: https://jane.app/ Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it!Get all the links, resources and show notes here: https://wellnesscentercreators.comSponsored by Jane App, Jane offers online booking, charting, scheduling, secure video and invoicing on one secure, beautifully designed system: https://jane.app/ Use code wellness1mo for a one-month grace period on your new Jane account.

Amanda Cox and Maddison McElroy have successfully brought inclusive wellness to the community of Columbus, Indiana, through their innovative Hive Wellness Center. But their goals are much bigger than just providing a service: they want to give everyone the right to wellness and fitness, regardless of their size, abilities, or finances. Wellness means having the capacity to say yes to the things that make you happy in your life. In this episode, you will be able to: Uncover the inclusive wellness services provided by Hive Columbus Wellness Center. Delve into the necessity of size-inclusivity in contemporary wellness industry practices. Gain insights on the health-at-every-size philosophy and its connection to holistic well-being. Investigate affordable payment alternatives and accessibility measures in the wellness business sphere. Recognize the value of Size-Inclusive Training Academy certification for professionals in the Wellness industry. And more! Get all the links, resources and show notes here: https://wellnesscentercreators.com Sponsored by Jane App, Jane offers online booking, charting, scheduling, secure video and invoicing on one secure, beautifully designed system: https://jane.app/ Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it!

Amanda shares with us trauma's of life that she finally faced and really worked and continues to work on healing not only her, but to also make sure her daughter doesn't go through that same cycle!Amanda is an Inspiration and an absolute delight. I am blessed to call her my Soul Sister.Support the show

Click this link to get $5 off at book outlet and to connect with us on Goodreads https://linktr.ee/theliteraryclubpodcast  . You can also connect with us at literaryclubpodcast@gmail.com and @literaryclubpodcastHis Risk by Shelley Shepard GrayThe Recovering by Leslie JamisonThe Grand Sophy by  Georgette HeyerThe Forgotten Garden by Kate Morton Open by Andre Agassi The Edge of Belonging  by Amanda Cox 

On this Episode 314 of Health Solutions, Shawn & Janet Needham RPh discuss Heart 2 Heal, Amanda Cox's medical ministry. EP 314: Heart 2 Heal - Amanda Cox's Medical Ministry with Shawn & Janet Needham RPh Episode Resources Instagram ~ https://www.instagram.com/heart2healidaho/ Facebook ~ www.facebook.com/heart2healidaho Website ~ www.heart2healministry.net ~ *** Ben Shapiro & Dave Ramsey Fans. Learn how to be in the driver's seat for your healthcare choices {not the system or doctors!}

Amanda Cox is Head of Special Data Projects at USAFacts, an unrivaled source of public data in the US. She's also an established data journalist and former editor of the NYT's Upshot data journalism section. As the winner of multiple awards, she's been referred to as the "Michael Phelps of infographics". She chats with Simon and Alberto about her career, how she feels about treemaps and how to put data out into the world. The music this week, made with TwoTone, is the S&P 500 index over time.

Today I'm sharing a conversation with Amanda Cox. We discuss her latest book, The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery and how this novel brought out the dynamic between mothers and daughters. We also talk about her background in counseling and how that affects the development of characters in her books. Here's a description of the novel, from Revell: How do you respond when hidden things are revealed? Professional counselor and author, Amanda Cox plunges readers into a dual-time tale in The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery. This masterful work weaves together the lives of three generations of women, exploring the dynamics between mothers and daughters and the way the secrets they kept shaped the women they became. After tragedy plunges Sarah Ashby into grief and unresolved anger, she decides to return to her hometown to follow her long-denied dream of running Old Depot Grocery alongside her mother and grandmother. But when she arrives, her mother, Rosemary, announces that she is planning on closing the store. The present time line weaves with the past when Sarah tries to uncover the real reason behind her mother's decision but instead stumbles across a love letter intended for her grandmother. Each woman must face how their lives have been altered by false information and secrets and discover the healing power of telling the truth. Purchase The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery on Amazon (affiliate). Purchase The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery on Bookshop (affiliate). Check out Amanda's website, Facebook, and Instagram! Join my community and help support the show on Patreon! Join the Historical Fiction: Unpacked Podcast Group on Facebook! Be sure to visit my Instagram, Facebook, and website. Follow the show on Instagram! Disclosure: This post contains affiliate links. If you click them and make a purchase, you help support my work without paying any more for the product. Thank you for your support!

In this episode, Sarah Bartholomeusz is joined by Amanda Cox, the Chief Financial & People Officer at Racing and Wagering Western Australia and previous executive at the West Coast Eagles Football Club. She is also a Fellow of both Chartered Accountants Australia & New Zealand and the Governance Institute of Australia. Not only that, she also serves as a non-executive director with Edge Employment Solutions, WA Institute of Sports and RPH Medical Research Foundation. Amanda is an experienced sports executive with more than 20 years of finance, people and culture, strategy, risk management and governance experience that helps her in her current role and the many community committees that she is a part of.

What happens when a business becomes successful and partners have to choose how to take the next steps? Is it investing back in the business with marketing, upgrades, or more employees?  Or is it time to take care of self and family?  And what happens when the partners disagree on what to do?   Today we continue our conversation (here's part 1) with Holly Barton and Amanda Cox, owners of Greenhouse Picker Sisters, a specialty rental company based in North Carolina.Hustle and Gather is hosted by Courtney Hopper and Dana Kadwell, and is produced by Earfluence.  Courtney and Dana's hustles include C&D Events, Hustle and Gather, and The Bradford Wedding Venue.

When Holly Barton and Amanda Cox lost their dad, they wanted to start a business where they could simply be together and have fun. But soon enough, clients were calling to ask them for huge orders of rentals they just didn't have. In saying yes to everything and figuring out how to make it work, Greenhouse Picker Sisters grew, as has their sister relationship.  But it hasn't been without disagreements on how to run things. Holly Barton and Amanda Cox are the owners of Greenhouse Picker Sisters, a specialty rental company based in North Carolina. Hustle and Gather is hosted by Courtney Hopper and Dana Kadwell, and is produced by Earfluence.  Courtney and Dana's hustles include C&D Events, Hustle and Gather, and The Bradford Wedding Venue.

Join us for a chat with Christi Award winning Author Amanda Cox as she shares how The Secret Keepers of the Old Depot Grocery came to be. In our Pinch of the Past we take a peek at New Years traditions and where they originated from. Bookworm Review: features Under The Texas Mistletoe by Karen Witemeyer.

Christian Historical Fiction Talk is listener supported. When you buy things through this site, we may earn an affiliate commission.The Secret Keepers of Old Depot GroceryThis dual-timeline story from Amanda Cox deftly explores the complexity of a mother-daughter dynamic, the way the secrets we keep shape our lives and the lives of others, and the healing power of telling the truth.My Dear Miss Dupre by Grace HitchcockWillow Dupré never thought she would have to marry, but with her father's unexpected retirement from running the prosperous Dupré sugar refinery, she is forced into a different future. The shareholders are unwilling to allow a female to take over the company without a man at her side, so her parents devise a plan--find Willow a spokesman king in order for her to become queen of the business empire.Night Bird CallingFrom award-winning author Cathy Gohlke, whose novels have been called “haunting” and “page-turning”, comes a historical fiction story of courage and transformation set in rural Appalachia on the eve of WWII.Come Back to MeBestselling author Jody Hedlund is your guide down the twisting waters of time to a volatile era of superstition, revolts, and chivalry in this suspenseful story.The Mistletoe Countess by Pepper BashamWill the magic of Christmas bring these two newlyweds closer together, or will the ghosts of the past lead them into a destructive discovery from which not even a Dickens's Christmas can save them?Chasing Shadows by Lynn AustinFor fans of bestselling WWII fiction comes a powerful novel from Lynn Austin about three women whose lives are instantly changed when the Nazis invade the neutral Netherlands, forcing each into a complicated dance of choice and consequence.On the Cliffs of Foxglove Manor by Jamie Jo WrightAdria Fontaine has been sent to recover goods her father pirated on the Great Lakes during the war. But when she arrives at Foxglove Manor--a stone house on a cliff overlooking Lake Superior--Adria senses wickedness hovering over the property. The mistress of Foxglove is an eccentric and seemingly cruel old woman who has filled her house with dangerous secrets, ones that may cost Adria her life. Freedom in the Mountain Wind (Call of the Rockies Series) by Misty BellerThe last epic journey before her life changes forever.As Dawn Breaks by Kate BreslinHer daring bid for freedom could be her greatest undoing.The Mobster's Daughter by Rachel Scott McDanielThe one man who could help her must never know her name.

​Introducing a first for Chris Fabry Live. We’re calling it Fiction Fridays! You’ll hear from three authors of three novels that won the coveted Christy Award. Michelle Shocklee, author of Under the Tulip Tree, Amanda Barratt, author of The White Rose Resists, and winner of the book of the year, Amanda Cox, author of The Edge of Belonging. Don’t miss our first Fiction Friday broadcast on the next Chris Fabry Live.

Join us and guest Joanna Davidson Politano as she chats about her latest novel A Midnight Dance. She loves tales that capture the colorful, exquisite details in ordinary lives and is eager to hear anyone's story. She lives with her husband and their kids in a house in the woods near Lake Michigan. Last week's Pinch of the Past was so fun we split it into two segments. Enjoy learning about the origins of Red Velvet Cake and a vegetarian dish made of necessity during WWII. On our Bookworm Review, we feature The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery by Amanda Cox. If you're seeking a redeeming story involving the unbreakable, but sometimes fragile relationships between mothers and daughters, The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery is a must read. You can find the entire written review here.

Christian Historical Fiction Talk is listener supported. When you buy things through this site, we may earn an affiliate commission.The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery by Amanda CoxPresent Day. After tragedy plunges her into grief and unresolved anger, Sarah Ashby returns to her childhood home determined to finally follow her long-denied dream of running Old Depot Grocery alongside her mother and grandmother. But when she arrives, her mother, Rosemary, announces to her that the store is closing. Sarah and her grandmother, Glory Ann, make a pact to save the store, but Rosemary has worked her entire life to make sure her daughter never follows in her footsteps. She has her reasons--but she'll certainly never reveal the real one.1965. Glory Ann confesses to her family that she's pregnant with her deceased fiancé's baby. Pressured into a marriage of convenience with a shopkeeper to preserve the family reputation, Glory Ann vows never to love again. But some promises are not as easily kept as she imagined.This dual-timeline story from Amanda Cox deftly explores the complexity of a mother-daughter dynamic, the way the secrets we keep shape our lives and the lives of others, and the healing power of telling the truth.Get your copy of The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery by Amanda Cox.Before becoming a stay-at-home parent, Amanda Cox spent her time counseling children, families, and individuals through life's challenging moments. Now she uses those same skills to develop layered characters and stories, bringing them on a journey of hope and healing. A journey she hopes her readers experience in their own lives as they read.A few of her favorite things are the sanctuary of the great outdoors, the feeling of pen on paper, the sound of her children's laughter, and exploring new places with her husband of 15 years. (Oh, let's not forget good fiction and good coffee. She's addicted to both.)Visit Amanda Cox's website.

In our latest chapter of the FamilyFiction Christian Fiction Podcast we talk to Amanda Cox about her new Revell release, 'The Secret Keepers of the Old Depot Grocery.' The post Amanda Cox | Christian Fiction Bookshelf Podcast – Chapter 10 appeared first on Family Fiction.

Amanda Cox wrecked me with her first book, The Edge of Belonging. And now she has another book coming out, another one set to destroy me as well.  The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery is a multi-generational and split-time story.  Even the synopsis wrecked me! I'm starting to get a complex.  Is there something really wrong with me or really right with her writing. I bet you all know what I think! Listen in! Note: links may be affiliate links that provide me with a small commission at no extra expense to you. Amanda Cox Will Take You on an Incredible Emotional Journey I'm beginning to think that split-time authors offer something a little extra special. After all, you get a peek into the past and get to watch it unfold, unsure how it'll affect the present... until it does. One book that did this for me was The Edge of Belonging by Amanda Cox. This split-time novel takes us back twenty-some-odd years and then into the present in a story so beautiful and gripping you won't know what hit you. Most books have titles that give you a hint of what the story is about, but I've never seen a book that gave you, right there on the first page, such insight into that title as I got from The Edge of Belonging. Look at this: “To have a home, you'd have to feel as if you belonged. The edge of the highway was the closest he'd ever been.” If that doesn't tell all without telling anything, I don't know what does.  And seriously, This is one of those books that lived up to the hype. I saw it EVERYWHERE a year or two ago, and when it finally arrived at my house and I had to stop reading to get a book done early... AAAAK!  Can I just say, AAAK? One of the most enjoyable parts of this episode for me was hearing the story of what sparked the idea for the story.  First, prayer... then an answer in a way no one would ever expect. And now Amanda Cox has done it again. Recently, I've been seeing this amazing book cover with an intriguing title. The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery. So, when I figured out that the "Amanda Cox" I'd be interviewing about that book was the author of the book I'd already preordered without even reading the synopsis... Yes, I did that! Well... I went and read it. Guys, even the synopsis of this book wrecked me. As Amanda Cox told about these women's story, I couldn't help but think one element reminded me a tiny bit of The Magic of Ordinary Days--the movie with Kerri Russel and Skeeter Davis, not the book with "stuff" that it didn't need. ;) That is one of my all-time favorite movies, so now I'm even more excited to read about why these women do and don't awant to close this grocery store and which one will convince the youngest to vote "her way." When Amanda isn't writing stories that tear at your heartstrings... (And she uses every bit of her knowledge of counseling to ensure they do), she likes to read books that are totally forgettable.  OR maybe that me putting her on the spot made her forget..?  I forget now... ;) Recently (or at least as of when we chatted), she's read: A Mosaic of Wings (set in India) by Kimberly Duffy The Sowing Season by Katie Powner A Flicker of Light by Roberta Kagen A Long Time Comin' by Robin W. Pearson The Secret Keepers of Old Depot Grocery by Amanda Cox Present Day. After tragedy plunges her into grief and unresolved anger, Sarah Ashby returns to her childhood home determined to finally follow her long-denied dream of running Old Depot Grocery alongside her mother and grandmother. But when she arrives, her mother, Rosemary, announces to her that the store is closing. Sarah and her grandmother, Glory Ann, make a pact to save the store, but Rosemary has worked her entire life to make sure her daughter never follows in her footsteps. She has her reasons--but she'll certainly never reveal the real one. 1965. Glory Ann confesses to her family that she's pregnant with her deceased fiancé's baby. Pressured into a marriage of convenience with a shopkeeper to preserve the family reputation, Glory Ann vows never to love again. But some promises are not as easily kept as she imagined. This dual-timeline story from Amanda Cox deftly explores the complexity of a mother-daughter dynamic, the way the secrets we keep shape our lives and the lives of others, and the healing power of telling the truth. Preorder your copy NOW!  Releases September 7, 2021! You can find Amanda Cox on her WEBSITE. Like to listen on the go? You can find Because Fiction Podcast at: Apple  Castbox  Google Play Libsyn  RSS Spotify Stitcher and more! If you'd like to be on the Because Fiction Podcast, please go HERE and submit your topic idea! I'd love to hear about it.    

Amanda Cox from the JW Marriott in Marco Island let us know what fun activities we have planned, like a wave runner tour, lunch on another island, possibly even a live performance from the Don Cheadles.. And you could be in on this fun too! They offer these services to everyone!

In this recast, Episode 172, you will hear from Amanda Cox, who has worked with Lumos, Faith to Action Initiative, and Hope and Homes for Children to help orphaned and vulnerable children around the world flourish.

In their weekly podcast Mark Pownall and Mark Beyer discuss Crown Resorts turmoil, infrastructure failings, Nedlands high-rise, council reform, election update, Bob Williams, Fabian Ross, Amanda Cox and Sam Gannon and our special report on ports and infrastructure.

In their weekly podcast Mark Pownall and Mark Beyer discuss Crown Resorts turmoil, infrastructure failings, Nedlands high-rise, council reform, election update, Bob Williams, Fabian Ross, Amanda Cox and Sam Gannon and our special report on ports and infrastructure.

Sunday 3 January 2021 PM Service*****Details of conditions to receive $1000 for memorising Ephesians...(from Sunday morning 3/1/21 ) •Any English translation is permissible•Entire book must be recited in one sitting•No prompts or coaching allowed•Judges decision final•Priority given to Gateway Church Community•Closing date March 31st 2021•Limited to first 5 correct participants.

Christian Historical Fiction Talk is listener supported. When you buy things through this site, we may earn an affiliate commission.The Book of Lost Friends by Lisa WingateLouisiana, 1875: In the tumultuous era of Reconstruction, three young women set off as unwilling companions on a perilous quest: Hannie, a freed slave; Lavinia, the pampered heir to a now destitute plantation; and Juneau Jane, Lavinia’s Creole half sister. Each carries private wounds and powerful secrets as they head for Texas, following roads rife with vigilantes and soldiers still fighting a war lost a decade before. For Lavinia and Juneau Jane, the journey is one of stolen inheritance and financial desperation, but for Hannie, torn from her mother and siblings before slavery’s end, the pilgrimage west reignites an agonizing question: Could her long-lost family still be out there? Beyond the swamps lie the limitless frontiers of Texas and, improbably, hope.Louisiana, 1987: For first-year teacher Benedetta Silva, a subsidized job at a poor rural school seems like the ticket to canceling her hefty student debt—until she lands in a tiny, out-of-step Mississippi River town. Augustine, Louisiana, is suspicious of new ideas and new people, and Benny can scarcely comprehend the lives of her poverty-stricken students. But amid the gnarled live oaks and run-down plantation homes lie the century-old history of three young women, a long-ago journey, and a hidden book that could change everything.The Edge of Belonging by Amanda CoxWhen Ivy Rose returns to her hometown to oversee an estate sale, she soon discovers that her grandmother left behind more than trinkets and photo frames--she provided a path to the truth behind Ivy's adoption. Shocked, Ivy seeks clues to her past, but a key piece to the mystery is missing.Twenty-four years earlier, Harvey James finds an abandoned newborn who gives him a sense of human connection for the first time in his life. His desire to care for the baby runs up against the stark fact that he is homeless. When he becomes entwined with two people seeking to help him find his way, Harvey knows he must keep the baby a secret or risk losing the only person he's ever loved.In this dual-time story from debut novelist Amanda Cox, the truth--both the search for it and the desire to keep it from others--takes center stage as Ivy and Harvey grapple with love, loss, and letting go.The Shepherd's Wife by Angela HuntYeshua of Nazareth has two sisters: Damaris, married to a wealthy merchant's son, and Pheodora, married to a simple shepherd from Bethlehem. When Pheodora's husband suffers an unexpected reversal of fortune and is thrown into debtor's prison, she returns to Nazareth, where she pins her hopes on two she-goats who should give birth to spotless white kids that would be perfect for the upcoming Yom Kippur sacrifice. In the eighteen months between the kids' birth and the opportunity to sell them and redeem her husband from prison, Pheodora must call on her wits, her family, and her God in order to provide for her daughters and survive. But when every prayer and ritual she knows is about God's care for Israel, how can she trust that God will hear and help a lowly shepherd's wife? A Portrait of Loyalty by Roseanna M. WhiteThe Land Beneath Us by Sarah SundinFragments of Light by Michele PhoenixThe Haunting at Bonaventure Circus by Jamie Jo WrightTo Steal a Heart by Jen TuranoA Gilded Lady by Elizabeth CamdenPlease also check out my latest releases,

Amanda is a coach in the UK who is spreading the wisdom of conscious parenting! --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Today I am chatting with a brand new author, Amanda Cox  who wrote one of my favorite books I’ve read this year, The Edge of Belonging. Amanda is a wife, and a Mom, with years of walking in ministry and counseling under her belt. In the last few years of her life as she stepped into her Motherhood role and pulled back from other things, she began to wrestle with who she was, and where she belonged. She, like many of us, best processes her relationship with God through her writing and as she poured her heart out onto the page stories began to emerge. In this conversation we talk about what God did with those stories, the wild journey of how she ultimately got published, and how we find our identity in Christ alone. This is such an insightful conversation that I think really speaks to this global season of identity crisis and change, and can provide a sweet word of encouragement to those of us trying to take a grip with weary hands. Everyone I know is trying to figure out a whole new sense of self in this extremely different world. But God has not changed. His call for us to go and tell His story and to live in our giftings, that hasn’t changed either. We belong to Him, and we are His children. That is a beautiful truth to cling to, and when we walk in light of it that’s where we can learn to believe it.  I hope you guys will connect with Amanda and PLEASE do yourself a favor and get a copy of The Edge of Belonging and give it as a gift to anyone and everyone. It's such a fantastic story, and I can’t recommend it enough.  Sponsor Info: This episode is sponsored by: Hopeful Follow them on Instagram Shop their products here (this is an affiliate link and it helps support the podcast, thank you!) Use the code SIMPLY15 for 15% off your purchase! References: Interview with Billy Graham Young Life Conversation on SSP with Counselor Phil Herndon Hopefuel and the Hope Planner “Trolls 2” soundtrack Scripture References: 1 John 4:4- You belong Psalm 139:14 / 1 Peter 4:10-11 He made you to do these things uniquely and your voice matters John 3:30 -Your purpose isn't to glorify yourself, its to glorify God Psalm 115:1- Abiding with Christ Hebrews 12:1- Surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses How the Church began in the book of Acts Ephesians 5: How do we speak life to one another Proverbs 31 Philippians 2:17- Pour yourself out like a drink offering Psalm 119:133-Order our steps in Your Word Matthew 6:11-Give us this day our daily bread James 1:17-Every perfect gift is from above 1 Corinthians 12- Types of spiritual gifts Matthew 8:3- Jesus touching those who had not been touched Mark 5:34- Calling an outcasted woman daughter Isaiah 6:8- Here I am, Lord John 16:33-In this world you will have trouble John 15:5- Apart from Me you can do nothing Zephaniah 3:17- He will quiet you with His love Mark 4:35-41- He can calm the storm Ruth 4:18-22/Matthew 1:5- Boaz is Rahab’s son Connecting with Amanda: Her book Instagram Facebook Twitter Website Connecting with Emily and Simply Stories Podcast:Instagram (Em life // Podcast Life)FacebookTwitterBlog  *Intro and outro music by music by audionautix.com

EPISODE 213I Today's guest is debut author, (https://amzn.to/3l0AOr6), came out in September and completely captured my heart! Amanda tells us how, while in the process of getting an editor's attention and selling her novel, she took a story told in a single timeline and changed it to become two linked stories in their own timelines that come together in the end. She also explains how she dug deeper into her characters using some of the questions and techniques she used to use with clients when she was a therapist. I found this brilliant and asked her to repeat it! Altogether, another fun conversation about writing and sharing writing tips. You can find out more about Amanda and her upcoming books at her website, https://amandacoxwrites.com/ (https://amandacoxwrites.com/), and across social media as amandacoxwrites.

Debut novelist Amanda Cox talks about her contemporary dual-timeline novel, "The Edge of Belonging." It's a story of sacrificial love and how the lost are found. Hear how Amanda was inspired to write the plot after seeing a baby bouncer sitting in the medium of the road. I love how her mind works!

Amanda Cox is a women in long term recovery, has license topractice law, currently heads a unit that administers employee disabilitybenefits. She is a single mom to a 11 year old girl and number one goalis to provide her the best life possible.

Gender ist überflüssig! Mein heutiger Gast Florian ist manchmal auch Amanda Cox. Das kommt ganz darauf an, ob er sich heute als Mann oder Frau fühlt. Ob Gender ein Spektrum sein kann, auf dem wir uns bewegen und man wirklich das Geschlecht ist, wonach man sich fühlt, klären wir in der heutigen Folge. Ich habe wieder jede Menge gelernt und hoffe, ihr könnt auch einige Sachen aus der Folge lernen. Viel Spaß, Berry.

Dear Listener, Join me and my long-time friend, Amanda Cox, for a conversation about COVID-19 and food safety! Amanda reached out to me a few weeks ago saying that many of her clients and friends were raising concerns about eating in our current climate. Questions like… “Do I need to take special precautions when I'm washing my fresh produce to make sure it's safe for consumption?” and, “Are canned + frozen food options nutritious?” She suggested we schedule a time to talk about some of these concerns and record that conversation for the benefit of others. Thanks to her, you're hearing all of our answers on the pod today! If you want to learn more about Amanda, you can email her at Acox.Wellnesscoach@gmail.com or find her on Instagram @Acox.WellnessCoach

Amanda Cox has held several senior leadership positions at Scotiabank, JP Morgan Chase, Barclays and more - today she shares her insights and experience on how to navigate age in the workplace. For the first time in history there are 4 generations in the workplace. Listen to learn what this means for maintaining a culture of equality as well as how our own age plays a role in how we experience our careers.

Dance Movement Therapy (0:00:00)Dancing, while sometimes embarrassing, can be a great way to let go of feelings of anger, frustration, or sadness. But dancing is not only a great stress reliever.It can also help you overcome past traumas. Dance movement therapy is a new, popular form of trauma treatment that's healing people's minds and bodies with movement and dance. Joining us today to talk about this modern form of therapy is Orit Krug, a certified dance movement therapist.  Food Allergies in Kids (0:13:37)Sometimes it's so hard to tell if your kids are just picky or if the food is really making them sick. Food allergies are increasingly common in young children—it's estimated that 5.6 MILLION kids here in America have one or more food allergies. So how can you tell if you kid is allergic to something, intolerant, or just being difficult? With us today is Dr. Amanda Cox, a pediatric allergist based in New York, New York.  Travelling with Friends (0:32:56)You've made it to New York with your best friends only to find out that half of you want to visit the MET and the other half Times Square. What do you do? Traveling with friends can either be a happy or hectic experience, and can either make or break your relationship. Here to give us advice on how to best enjoy your vacation with friends is travel expert, Ashley Rossi.  Remaking Middle School (0:50:38)There's no phase of life quite like middle school. Middle school kids have a lot on their minds as they try to figure out their place in the world while also balancing drama, puberty and classwork. And parenting middle school kids is no walk in the park either. During this time, our kids' brains are developing at a rate they haven't developed at since the first 2 years of life. It's clear that middles school isa crucial time in our kids' growth. So, what can we do to make middle school a better experience for our kids (which will surely make our lives as parents easier)? Here to tell us her ideas on the subject is adolescent development expert and author Nancy Deutsch.   Finding More Joy (1:05:50)It's no secret that life is hard now and then. Sometimes it's a walk on the beach. Other times it feels like you're struggling up a steep mountain trail with no end in sight. Yet no matter where you're at on the journey, it's always possible to find joy. But how? Here to help us learn how to find happiness as we travel our own paths are Kim Howie and Nancy Werteen. They are the co-founders of The Wisdom Coalition. They're with us today to tell us how we can find joy in the journey of life.  Candlemas: The Real Story of Groundhog Day (1:26:30)Groundhog Day is coming up this Sunday... but when did we decide it would be a good idea to turn to rodents for weather predictions? While you probably don't rely solely on the Groundhog to determine the next 6 weeks of winter or an early spring, your ancestors might have, in a celebration that began long before Groundhog Day. Joining us to discuss the origins and forgotten traditions of the least overwhelming holiday of the year is Reverend Dr. Patricia M Lyons, who teaches at Virginia Theological Seminary.  Weekend Review (1:36:30)Lisa and Richie discuss the movies that are coming to theaters and streaming this weekend, as well as what events are happening around the country.

Orit Krug explains how dancing can be therapy, Amanda Cox teaches how to recognize food allergies, Ashley Rossi gives advice for travelling with friends, Nancy Deutch talks about how to change middle schools, Kim Howie and Nancy Werteen teach how to be happier, Patricia Lyons discusses the history of Groundhog Day, Lisa and Richie talk about what's happening this weekend.

Amanda Cox - pt 1

Emily and Alisha sit down with Lake Charles realtor, Amanda Cox to discuss balancing a face-paced, high pressure career and family life. She gives an encouraging testimony of her home roots in Hawaii and what drives her to be a wonderful caretaker of “her people” through real estate. She opens up about the parts of parenting that will inevitably slip through the cracks because of our sin nature, but the beauty she has found in being real with her children about who Jesus is and how only He can fill in those places that we fail.

Amanda Cox Buzzsprout-1283260 Sun, 16 Jun 2019 00:00:00 +1000 2319 full false

We brought friend of the show Lauren Schandevel back on to vent about and break down last week's college admissions scandal. Lauren (whom we interviewed back in Season 1) is a brilliant, working-class student at the University of Michigan and she has some thoughts about rich people buying and bribing their kids' way into elite colleges and universities.    Additional links/info below... Working People, Season 1, Episode 4, Lauren Schandevel   Lauren's Twitter page Martin Slagter, MLive, "2 University of Michigan Students Help Create Nation's First Social Class & Inequality Minor"  Scott Jaschick, Inside Higher Ed, "Massive Admissions Scandal"  Nathan J. Robinson, The Guardian, "Meritocracy Is a Myth Invented by the Rich"  The Chronicle of Higher Education continuing coverage of the admissions scandal, "Admission through the 'Side Door'"  Malcolm Harris, NY Mag, "The College Admissions Ring Tells Us How Much Schoolwork Is Worth" Being Not-Rich at UM guide  Jennifer Meer, The Michigan Daily, "University ranks last in economic mobility and diversity among elite public colleges"  Gregor Aisch, Larry Buchanan, Amanda Cox, & Kevin Quealy, The New York Times, "Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60. Find Yours"    Featured Music (all songs sourced from the Free Music Archive: freemusicarchive.org) Lobo Loco, "Malte Junior - Hall"

A national championship college player who went on to be a co-founder of the hugely successful women’s Raleigh Venom team, captaining them and lifting 4 national championships She then shifted to referee coaching, where she is making her mark beyond the US borders, being selected for the first WR Women’s HP camp in Stellenbosch, South Africa.

Alvin Chang, Senior Graphics Reporter for Vox, wrote and illustrated an article last year called "The subtle ways colleges discriminate against poor students, explained with a cartoon." In this episode of the podcast, we share the audio of a webinar that Chang presented for the Center for Sustainable Nanotechnology about his work. He tackles challenging issues of class, bias, and educational attainment using clear illustrations (verbal as well as visual) and simple analogies that are relevant far beyond the world of academic science. Alvin Chang, Senior Graphics Reporter for Vox (left, courtesy of Alvin Chang) and one of his illustrations for "The subtle ways colleges discriminate against poor students, explained with a cartoon" (right, used with permission from Vox.com) Want more podcast episodes? You can find them all on our podcast page, or you can subscribe through Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. #### **ABOUT THIS EPISODE** Related links: Alvin Chang: website, Twitter The subtle ways colleges discriminate against poor students, explained with a cartoon. Vox.com, updated Sept 12, 2018. Money, Race and Success: How Your School District Compares. By Motoko Rich, Amanda Cox, and Matthew Bloch, The New York Times, April 29, 2016. Center for Sustainable Nanotechnology Interviewee: Alvin Chang Producer/Host: Miriam Krause Audience Questions: Peter Clement, Nicholas Niemuth, Becky Rodriguez, & Rigoberto Hernandez Editor: Alicia McGeachy Music: PC III and Dexter Britain

Nic and Eric check in on Chris Tolkien, talk Death of Superman and sit down with the cast of The Valley Theatre production of "She Loves Me!" Guests include Mike Cox, Amanda Cox, Joshua Ellis and Vanessa Farnsworth.

In this episode, we talk to Lauren Schandevel, a low-income student at the University of Michigan who grew up in a working-class neighborhood in Warren, Michigan. Lauren is a really remarkable person, and in our interview we chat about what it was like to grow up in her part of Macomb County, which always seems to crop up every election cycle whenever news outlets want to figure out what’s happening in the Rust Belt. We talk about Lauren’s experience moving back and forth between worlds, between her working-class home and the school she transferred to, where she took classes and hung out with people from wealthier backgrounds. We talk about school, family, friends, and the ecstatic and dismal pangs of adolescence.   We spend a fair amount of time talking about what it’s like being a low-income student attending a public university where the median family income for students' families is over three times what it is for families in Lauren's hometown. And we also talk at length about what Lauren has been doing to bring a class-based analysis to higher education, including starting "Being Not Rich at UM," an open-source guide for low-income students like herself who are trying to navigate college life at UM. We discuss what it means to Lauren, and what it means for class politics in higher education, that this guide went viral, drew national attention, and has even inspired students at other universities to author similar guides.    Additional links/info below... Being Not-Rich at UM guide  Jennifer Meer, The Michigan Daily, "University ranks last in economic mobility and diversity among elite public colleges" Gregor Aisch, Larry Buchanan, Amanda Cox, & Kevin Quealy, The New York Times, "Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60. Find Yours" #RealCollege  Christopher Newfield, Johns Hopkins University Press, The Great Mistake: How We Wrecked Public Universities & How We Can Fix Them    Featured Music (all songs sourced from the Free Music Archive) - Lobo Loco, "Malte Junior - Hall" - Cosmo, "No Gods, No Masters" - Steve Combs, "Motown Rehearsal" - Strong Suit, "Derby Day"

Listen Here: iTunes | Overcast | PlayerFM Keep up with the North Star Podcast. My guest today is Michael Nielsen a scientist, writer and computer programmer who works as a research fellow at Y Combinator Research. Michael has written on various topics from quantum teleportation, geometric complexity and the future of science. Michael is the most original thinker I have discovered in a long time when it comes to artificial intelligence, augmenting human intelligence, reinventing explanation and using new media to enable new ways of thinking. Michael has pushed my mind towards new and unexpected places. This conversation gets a little wonky at times, but as you know, the best conversations are difficult. They are challenging because they venture into new, unexplored territory and that's exactly what we did here today.  Michael and I explored the history of tools and jump back to the invention of language, the defining feature of human collaboration and communication. We explore the future of data visualization and talk about the history of the spreadsheet as a tool for human thought.  “Before writing and mathematics, you have the invention of language which is the most significant event in some ways. That’s probably the defining feature of the human species as compared to other species.” LINKS Find Michael Online Michael’s Website Michael’s Twitter Michael’s Free Ebook: Neural Networks and Deep Learning Reinventing Discovery: The New Era of Networked Science Quantum Computation and Quantum Information Mentioned In the Show 2:12 Michael’s Essay Extreme Thinking 21:48 Photoshop 21:49 Microsoft Word 24:02 The David Bowie Exhibit 28:08 Google AI’s Deep Dream Images 29:26 Alpha Go 30:26 Brian Eno’s Infamous Airport Music 33:41 Listen to Speed of Life by Dirty South Books Mentioned 46:06 Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig 54:12 Cat’s Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut People Mentioned 13:27 Rembrandt Van Rijn’s Artwork 15:01 Monet’s Gallery 15:02 Pierre Auguste Renoir’s Impressionist Art 15:05 Picasso’s Paintings 15:18 Paul Cezanne’s Post-Impressionist Art 25:40 David Brooke’s NYT Column 35:19 Franco of Cologne 56:58 Alan Kay’s Ted Talk on the future of education 57:04 Doug Engelbart 58:35 Karl Schroeder 01:02:06 Elon Musk’s Mars-bound company, SpaceX 01:04:25 Alex Tabarrok Show Topics 4:01 Michael’s North Star, which drives the direction of his research 5:32 Michael talks about how he sets his long-term goals and how he’s propelled by ideas he’s excited to see in the world. 7:13 The invention of language. Michael discusses human biology and how it’s easier to learn a language than writing or mathematics.  9:28 Michael talks about humanity’s ability to bootstrap itself. Examples include maps, planes, and photography  17:33 Limitations in media due to consolidation and the small number of communication platforms available to us  18:30 How self-driving cars and smartphones highlight the strange intersection where artificial intelligence meets human interaction and the possibilities that exist as technology improves 21:45 Why does Photoshop improve your editing skills, while Microsoft Word doesn’t improve your writing skills? 27:07 Michael’s opinion on how Artificial Intelligence can help people be more creative “Really good AI systems are going to depend upon building and currently depend on building very good models of different parts of the world, to the extent that we can then build tools to actually look in and see what those models are telling us about the world.”  30:22 The intersection of algorithms and creativity. Are algorithms the musicians of the future? 36:51 The emerging ability to create interactive visual representations of spreadsheets that are used in media, internally in companies, elections and more. “I’m interested in the shift from having media be predominantly static to dynamic, which the New York Times is a perfect example of. They can tell stories on newyorktimes.com that they can’t tell in the newspaper that gets delivered to your doorstep.” 45:42 The strategies Michael uses to successfully trail blaze uncharted territory and how they emulate building a sculpture   53:30 Michael’s learning and information consumption process, inspired by the idea that you are what you pretend to be 56:44 The foundation of Michael’s worldview. The people and ideas that have shaped and inspired Michael.  01:02:26 Michael’s hypothesis for the 21st century project involving blockchain and cryptocurrencies and their ability to make implementing marketplaces easier than ever before “The key point is that some of these cryptocurrencies actually, potentially, make it very easy to implement marketplaces. It’s plausible to me that the 21st century [project] turns out to be about [marketplaces]. It’s about inventing new types of markets, which really means inventing new types of collective action.” Host David Perell and Guest Michael Nielsen TRANSCRIPT Hello and welcome to the North Star. I'm your host, David Perell, the founder of North Star Media, and this is the North Star podcast. This show is a deep dive into the stories, habits, ideas, strategies, and rituals that guide fulfilled people and create enormous success for them, and while the guests are diverse, they share profound similarities. They're guided by purpose, live with intense joy, learn passionately, and see the world with a unique lens. With each episode, we get to jump into their minds, soak up their hard-earned wisdom and apply it to our lives. My guest today is Michael Nielson, a scientist, writer, and computer programmer, who works as a research fellow at Y Combinator Research. Michael's written on various topics from quantum teleportation to geometric complexity to the future of science, and now Michael is the most original thinker I've discovered in a long time. When it comes to artificial intelligence to augmenting human intelligence, reinventing explanation, or using new media to enable new ways of thinking, Michael has pushed my mind towards new and unexpected places. Now, this conversation gets a little wonky at times, but as you know, the best conversations are difficult. They're challenging because they venture into new, unexplored territory and that's exactly what we did here today. Michael and I explored the history of tools. This is an extension of human thought and we jump back to the invention of language, the defining feature of human collaboration and communication. We explore the future of data visualization and talk about the history of this spreadsheet as a tool for human thought. Here's my conversation with Michael Nielson. DAVID: Michael Nielson, welcome to the North Star Podcast. MICHAEL: Thank you, David. DAVID: So tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do. MICHAEL: So day to day, I'm a researcher at Y Combinator Research. I'm basically a reformed theoretical physicist. My original background is doing quantum computing work. And then I've moved around a bit over the years. I've worked on open science, I've worked on artificial intelligence and most of my current work is around tools for thought. DAVID: So you wrote an essay which I really enjoyed called Extreme Thinking. And in it, you said that one of the single most important principle of learning is having a strong sense of purpose and a strong sense of meaning. So let's be in there. What is that for you? MICHAEL: Okay. You've done your background. Haven't thought about that essay in years. God knows how long ago I wrote it. Having a strong sense of purpose. What did I actually mean? Let me kind of reboot my own thinking. It's, it's kind of the banal point of view. How much you want something really matters. There's this lovely interview with the physicist Richard Feynman, where he's asked about this Indian mathematical prodigy Ramanujan. A movie was made about Ramanujan’s mathematical prowess a couple of years ago. He was kind of this great genius. And a Feynman was asked what made Ramanujan so good. And the interview was expecting him to say something about how bright this guy was or whatever. And Feynman said instead, that it was desire. It was just that love of mathematics was at the heart of it. And he couldn't stop thinking about it and he was thinking about it. He was doing in many ways, I guess the hard things. It's very difficult to do the hard things that actually block you unless you have such a strong desire that you're willing to go through those things. Of course, I think you see that in all people who get really good at something, whether it be sort of a, just a skill like playing the violin or something, which is much more complicated. DAVID: So what is it for you? What is that sort of, I hate to say I want to just throw that out here, that North Star, so to speak, of what drives you in your research? MICHAEL: Research is funny. You go through these sort of down periods in which you don't necessarily have something driving you on. That used to really bother me early in my career. That was sort of a need to always be moving. But now I think that it's actually important to allow yourself to do that. That's actually how you find the problems, which really get, get you excited. If you don't sort of take those pauses, then you're not gonna find something that's really worth working on. I haven't actually answered your question. I think I know I've jumped to that other point because that's one thing that really matters to me and it was something that was hard to learn. DAVID: So one thing that I've been thinking a lot about recently is you sort of see it in companies. You see it in countries like Singapore, companies like Amazon and then something like the Long Now Foundation with like the 10,000-year clock. And I'm wondering to you in terms of learning, there's always sort of a tension between short-term learning and long-term learning. Like short-term learning so often is maybe trying to learn something that feels a little bit richer. So for me, that's reading, whereas maybe for a long-term learning project there are things I'd like to learn like Python. I'd like to learn some other things like that. And I'm wondering, do you set long-term learning goals for yourself or how would you think about that trade off? MICHAEL: I try to sit long-time learning goals to myself, in many ways against my better judgment. It's funny like you're very disconnected from you a year from now or five years from now, or 10 years from now. I can't remember, but Eisenhower or Bonaparte or somebody like that said that the planning is invaluable or planning plans are overrated, but planning is invaluable. And I think that's true. And this is the right sort of attitude to take towards these long-term lending goals. Sure. It's a great idea to decide that you're going out. Actually, I wouldn't say it was a great idea to say that you're going to learn python, I might say. However, there was a great idea to learn python if you had some project that you desperately wanted to do that it required you to learn python, then it's worth doing, otherwise stay away from python. I certainly favor, coupling learning stuff to projects that you're excited to actually see in the world. But also, then you may give stuff up, you don't become a master of python and instead you spend whatever, a hundred hours or so learning about it for this project that takes you a few hundred hours, and if you want to do a successor project which involves it, more of it. Great, you'll become better. And if you don't, well you move onto something else. DAVID: Right. Well now I want to dive into the thing that I'm most excited to talk to you about today and that's tools that extend human thought. And so let's start with the history of that. We'll go back sort of the history of tools and there's had great Walter Ong quote about how there are no new thoughts without new technologies. And maybe we can start there with maybe the invention of writing, the invention of mathematics and then work through that and work to where you see the future of human thought going with new technologies. MICHAEL: Actually, I mean before writing and mathematics, you have the invention of language, which is almost certainly the most significant single event in some ways. The history of the planet suddenly, you know, that's probably the defining feature of the human species as compared to other species. Um, I say invention, but it's not even really invention. There's certainly a lot of evidence to suggest that language is in some important sense built into our biology. Not the details of language. Um, but this second language acquisition device, it seems like every human is relatively very set to receive language. The actual details depend on the culture we grow up on. Obviously, you don't grow up speaking French if you were born in San Francisco and unless you were in a French-speaking household, some very interesting process of evolution going on there where you have something which is fundamentally a technology in some sense languages, humans, a human invention. It's something that's constructed. It's culturally carried. Um, it, there's all these connections between different words. There's almost sort of a graph of connections between the words if you like, or all sorts of interesting associations. So in that sense, it's a technology, something that's been constructed, but it's also something which has been over time built into our biology. Now if you look at later technologies of thought things like say mathematics, those are much, much later. That hasn't been the same sort of period of time. Those don't seem to be built into our biology in quite the same way. There's actually some hints of that we have some intrinsic sense of number and there's some sort of interesting experiments that suggest that we were built to do certain rudimentary kinds of mathematical reasoning but there's no, you know, section of the brain which specializes sort of from birth in solving quadratic equations, much less doing algebraic geometry or whatever, you know, super advanced. So it becomes this cultural thing over the last few thousand years, this kind of amazing process whereby we've started to bootstrap ourselves. If you think about something like say the invention of maps, which really has changed the way people relate to the environment. Initially, they were very rudimentary things. Um, and people just kept having new ideas for making maps more and more powerful as tools for thought. Okay. I can give you an example. You know, a very simple thing, if you've ever been to say the underground in London or most other subway systems around the world. It was actually the underground when this first happened, if you look at the map of the underground, I mean it's a very complicated map, but you can get pretty good at reasoning about how to get from one place to another. And if you look at maps prior to, I think it was 1936, in fact, the maps were much more complicated. And the reason was that mapmakers up to that point had the idea that where the stations were shown on the map had to correspond to the geography of London. Exactly. And then somebody involved in producing the underground map had just a brilliant insight that actually people don't care. They care about the connections between the stations and they want to know about the lines and they want some rough idea of the geography, but they're quite happy for it to be very rough indeed and he was able to dramatically simplify that map by simply doing away with any notion of exact geography. DAVID: Well, it's funny because I noticed the exact same thing in New York and so often you have insights when you see two things coming together. So I was on the subway coming home one day and I was looking at the map and I always thought that Manhattan was way smaller than Brooklyn, but on the subway map, Manhattan is actually the same size as Brooklyn. And in Manhattan where the majority of the subway action is, it takes up a disproportionate share of the New York City subway map. And then I went home to go read Power Broker, which is a book about Robert Moses building the highways and they had to scale map. And what I saw was that Brooklyn was way, way bigger than Manhattan. And from predominantly looking at subway maps. Actually, my topological geographical understanding of New York was flawed and I think exactly to your point. MICHAEL: It's interesting. When you think about what's going on there and what it is, is some person or a small group of people is thinking very hard about how to represent their understanding of the city and then the building, tools, sort of a technological tool of thought that actually then saves millions or in the case of a New York subway or the London underground, hundreds of millions or billions of people, mostly just seconds, sometimes, probably minutes. Like those maps would be substantially more complicated sort of every single day. So it's only a small difference. I mean, and it's just one invention, right? But, you know, our culture is of course accumulated thousands or millions of these inventions. DAVID: One of my other favorite ones from being a kid was I would always go on airplanes and I'd look at the route map and it would always show that the airplanes would fly over the North Pole, but on two-dimensional space that was never clear to me. And I remember being with my dad one night, we bought a globe and we took a rubber band and we stretched why it was actually shorter to fly over the North Pole, say if you're going from New York to India. And that was one of the first times in my life that I actually didn't realize it at the time, but understood exactly what I think you're trying to get at there. How about photography? Because that's another one that I think is really striking, vivid from the horse to slow motion to time lapses. MICHAEL: Photography I think is interesting in this vein in two separate ways. One is actually what it did to painting, which is of course painters have been getting more and more interested in being more and more realistic. And honestly, by the beginning of the 19th century, I think painting was pretty boring. Yeah, if you go back to say the 16th and 17th centuries, you have people who are already just astoundingly good at depicting things in a realistic fashion. To my mind, Rembrandt is probably still the best portrait painter in some sense to ever live. DAVID: And is that because he was the best at painting something that looked real? MICHAEL: I think he did something better than that. He did this very clever thing, you know, you will see a photograph or a picture of somebody and you'll say, oh, that really looks like them. And I think actually most of the time we, our minds almost construct this kind of composite image that we think of as what David looks like or what our mother looks like or whatever. But actually moment to moment, they mostly don't look like that. They mostly, you know, their faces a little bit more drawn or it's, you know, the skin color is a little bit different. And my guess, my theory of Rembrandt, is that he may have actually been very, very good at figuring out almost what that image was and actually capturing that. So, yeah, I mean this is purely hypothetical. I have no real reason to believe it, but I think it's why I responded so strongly to his paintings. DAVID: And then what happened? So after Rembrandt, what changed? MICHAEL: So like I said, you mean you keep going for a sort of another 200 years, people just keep getting more and more realistic in some sense. You have all the great landscape painters and then you have this catastrophe where photography comes along and all of a sudden you're being able to paint in a more and more realistic fashion. It doesn't seem like such a hot thing to be doing anymore. And if for some painters, I think this was a bit of a disaster, a bit of dose. I said of this modern wave, you start to see through people like Monet and Renoir. But then I think Picasso, for me anyway, was really the pivotal figure in realizing that actually what art could become, is the invention of completely new ways of seeing. And he starts to play inspired by Cezanne and others in really interesting ways with the construction of figures and such. Showing things from multiple angles in one painting and different points of view. And he just plays with hundreds of ideas along these lines, through all of his painting and how we see and what we see in how we actually construct reality in their heads from the images that we see. And he did so much of that. It really became something that I think a lot of artists, I'm not an artist or a sophisticated art theory person, but it became something that other people realized was actually an extraordinarily interesting thing to be doing. And much of the most interesting modern art is really a descendant of that understanding that it's a useful thing to be doing. A really interesting thing to be doing rather than becoming more and more realistic is actually finding more and more interesting ways of seeing and being able to represent the world. DAVID: So I think that the quote is attributed to Marshall McLuhan, but I have heard that Winston Churchill said it. And first, we shape our tools and then our tools shape us. And that seems to be sort of the foundation of a lot of the things that you're saying. MICHAEL: Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, on the other side, you also have, to your original question about photography. Photographers have gradually started to realize that they could shape how they saw nature. Ansel Adams and people like this, you know. Just what an eye. And understanding his tools so verbally he's not just capturing what you see. He's constructing stuff in really, really interesting ways. DAVID: And how about moving forward in terms of your work, thinking about where we are now to thinking about the future of technology. For example, one thing that frustrates me a bit as a podcast host is, you know, we just had this conversation about art and it's the limits of the audio medium to not be able to show the paintings of Rembrandt and Cezanne that we just alluded to. So as you think about jumping off of that, as you think about where we are now in terms of media to moving forward, what are some of the challenges that you see and the issues that you're grappling with? MICHAEL: One thing for sure, which I think inhibits a lot of exploration. We're trapped in a relatively small number of platforms. The web is this amazing thing as our phones, iOS and whatnot, but they're also pretty limited and that bothers me a little bit. Basically when you sort of narrow down to just a few platforms which have captured almost all of the attention, that's quite limiting. People also, they tend not to make their own hardware. They don't do these kinds of these kinds of things. If that were to change, I think that would certainly be exciting. Something that I think is very, very interesting over the next few years, artificial intelligence has gotten to the point now where we can do a pretty good job in understanding what's actually going on inside a room. Like we can set up sufficient cameras. If you think about something like self-driving cars, essentially what they're doing is they're building up a complete model of the environment and if that model is not pretty darned good, then you can't do self-driving cars, you need to know where the pedestrians are and where the signs are and all these kinds of things and if there's an obstruction and that technology when brought into, you know, the whole of the rest of the world means that you're pretty good at passing out. You know what's inside the room. Oh, there's a chair over there, there's a dog which is moving in that direction, there's a person, there’s a baby and sort of understanding all those actions and ideally starting to understand all the gestures which people are making as well. So we're in this very strange state right at the moment. Where the way we talk to computers is we have these tiny little rectangles and we talk to them through basically a square inch or so of sort of skin, which is our eyes. And then we, you know, we tap away with our fingers and the whole of the rest of our body and our existence is completely uncoupled from that. We've effectively reduced ourselves to our fingers and our eyes. We a couple to it only through the whatever, 100 square inches, couple hundred square inches of our screens or less if you're on a phone and everything else in the environment is gone. But we're actually at a point where we're nearly able to do an understanding of all of that sufficiently well that actually other modes of interaction will become possible. I don't think we're quite there yet, but we're pretty close. And you start to think about, something like one of my favorite sport is tennis. You think about what a tennis player can do with their body or you think about what a dancer can do with their body. It's just extraordinary. And all of that mode of being human and sort of understanding we can build up antibodies is completely shut out from the computing experience at the moment. And I think over the next sort of five to ten years that will start to reenter and then in the decades hence, it will just seem strange that it was ever shut out. DAVID: So help me understand this. So when you mean by start to reenter, do mean that we'll be able to control computers with other parts of our bodies or that we'll be spending less time maybe typing on keyboards. Help me flesh this out. MICHAEL: I just mean that at the moment. As you speak to David, you are waving your arms around and all sorts of interesting ways and there is no computer system which is aware of it, what your computer system is aware of. You're doing this recording. That's it. And even that, it doesn't understand in any sort of significant way. Once you've gained the ability to understand the environment. Lots of interesting things become possible. The obvious example, which everybody immediately understands is that self driving cars become possible. There's this sort of enormous capacity. But I think it's certainly reasonably likely that much more than that will become possible over the next 10 to 20 years. As your computer system becomes completely aware of your environment or as aware as you're willing to allow it to be. DAVID: You made a really interesting analogy in one of your essays about the difference between Photoshop and Microsoft Word. That was really fascinating to me because I know both programs pretty well. But to know Microsoft word doesn't necessarily mean that I'm a better writer. It actually doesn't mean that at all. But to know Photoshop well probably makes me pretty good at image manipulation. I'm sure there's more there, but if you could walk me through your thought process as you were thinking through that. I think that's really interesting. MICHAEL: So it's really about a difference in the type of tools which are built into the program. So in Photoshop, which I should say, I don't know that well, I know Word pretty well. I've certainly spent a lot more time in it than I have ever spent in Photoshop. But in Photoshop, you do have these very interesting tools which have been built in, which really condense an enormous amount of understanding of ideas like layers or an idea, different brushes, these kinds of ideas. There's just a tremendous amount of understanding which has been built in there. When I watch friends who are really good with these kinds of programs, what they can do with layers is just amazing. They understand all these kind of clever screening techniques. It seems like such a simple idea and yet they're able to do these things that let you do astonishing things just with sort of three or four apparently very simple operations. So in that sense, there are some very deep ideas about image manipulation, which had been built directly into Photoshop. By contrast, there's not really very many deep ideas about writing built into Microsoft Word. If you talk to writers about how they go about their actual craft and you say, well, you know, what heuristics do use to write stories and whatnot. Most of the ideas which they use aren't, you know, they don't correspond directly to any set of tools inside Word. Probably the one exception is ideas, like outlining. There are some tools which have been built into word and that's maybe an example where in fact Word does help the writer a little bit, but I don't think to nearly the same extent as Photoshop seems to. DAVID: I went to an awesome exhibit for David Bowie and one of the things that David but we did when he was writing songs was he had this word manipulator which would just throw him like 20, 30 words and the point wasn't that he would use those words. The point was that by getting words, his mind would then go to different places and so often when you're in my experience and clearly his, when you're trying to create something, it helps to just be thrown raw material at you rather than the perennial, oh my goodness, I'm looking at a white screen with like this clicking thing that is just terrifying, Word doesn't help you in that way. MICHAEL: So an example of something which does operate a little bit in that way, it was a Ph.D. thesis was somebody wrote at MIT about what was called the Remembrance Agent. And what it would do, it was a plugin essentially for a text editor that it would, look at what you are currently writing and it would search through your hard disk for documents that seemed like they might actually be relevant. Just kind of prompt you with what you're writing. Seems like it might be related to this or this or this or this or this. And to be perfectly honest, it didn't actually work all that well. I think mostly because the underlying machine learning algorithms it used weren't very clever. It's defunct now as far as I know. I tried to get it to run on my machine or a year or two ago and I couldn't get it running. It was still an interesting thing to do. It had exactly this same kind of the belly sort of experience. Even if they weren't terribly relevant. You kind of couldn't understand why on earth you are being shown it. It's still jogged your mind in an interesting way. DAVID: Yeah. I get a lot of help out of that. Actually, I’ll put this example. So David Brooks, you know the columnist for the New York Times. When he writes, what he does is he gets all of his notes and he just puts his notes on the floor and he literally crawls all around and tries to piece the notes together and so he's not even writing. He's just organizing ideas and it must really help him as it helps me to just have raw material and just organize it all in the same place. MICHAEL: There's a great British humorist, PG Boathouse, he supposedly wrote on I think it was the three by five-inch cards. He'd write a paragraph on each one, but he had supposedly a very complicated system in his office, well not complicated at all, but it must have looked amazing where he would basically paste the cards to the wall and as the quality of each paragraph rose, he would move the paragraph up the wall and I think the idea was something like once it got to the end, it was a lion or something, every paragraph in the book had to get above that line and at that point it was ready to go. DAVID: So I've been thinking a lot about sort of so often in normal media we take AI sort of on one side and art on another side. But I think that so many of the really interesting things that will emerge out of this as the collaboration between the two. And you've written a bit about art and AI, so how can maybe art or artificial intelligence help people be more creative in this way? MICHAEL: I think we still don't know the answer to the question, unfortunately. The hoped-for answer the answer that might turn out to be true. Real AI systems are going to build up very good models of different parts of the world, maybe better than any human has of those parts of the world. It might be the case, I don't know. It might be the case that something like the Google translate system, maybe in some sense that system already knows some facts about translation that would be pretty difficult to track down in any individual human mind and sort of so much about translation in some significant ways. I'm just speculating here. But if you can start to interrogate that understanding, it becomes a really useful sort of a prosthetic for human beings. If you've seen any of these amazing, well I guess probably the classics, the deep dream images that came out of Google brain a couple of years ago. Basically, you take ordinary images and you're sort of running them backwards through a neural net somehow. You're sort of seeing something about how the neural net sees that image. You get these very beautiful images as a result. There's something strange going on and sort of revealing about your own way of seeing the world. And at the same time, it's based on some structure which this neural net has discovered inside these images which is not ordinarily directly accessible to you. It's showing you that structure. So sort of I think the right way to think about this is that really good AI systems are going to depend upon building and do currently depend on building very good models of different parts of the world and to the extent that we can then build tools to actually look in and see what those models are telling us about the world, we can learn interesting new things which are useful for us. I think the conventional way, certainly the science fiction way to think about AI is that we're going to give it commands and it's going to do stuff. How you shut the whatever it is, the door or so on and so forth, and there was certainly will be a certain amount of that. Or with AlphaGo what is the best move to take now, but actually in some sense, with something like AlphaGo, it's probably more interesting to be able to look into it and see what it's understanding is of the board position than it is to ask what's the best move to be taken. A colleague showed me a go program, a prototype, what it would do. It was a very simple kind of a thing, but it would help train beginners. I think it was Go, but by essentially colorizing different parts of the board according to whether they were good or bad moves to be taking in its estimation. If you're a sophisticated player, it probably wasn't terribly helpful, but if you're just a beginner, there's an interesting kind of a conditioning going on there. At least potentially a which lets you start to see. You get a feeling for immediate feedback from. And all that's happening there is that you're seeing a little bit into one of these machine learning algorithms and that's maybe helping you see the world in a slightly different way. DAVID: As I was preparing for this podcast, you've liked a lot to Brian Eno and his work. So I spent as much time reading Brian Eno, which I'm super happy that I went down those rabbit holes. But one of the things that he said that was really interesting, so he's one of the fathers of ambient music and he said that a lot of art and especially music, there will sort of be algorithms where you sort of create an algorithm that to the listener might even sound better than what a human would produce. And he said two things that were interesting. The first one is that you create an algorithm and then a bunch of different musical forms could flower out of that algorithm. And then also said that often the art that algorithms create is more appealing to the viewer. But it takes some time to get there. And had the creator just followed their intuition. They probably would have never gotten there. MICHAEL: It certainly seems like it might be true. And that's the whole sort of interesting thing with that kind of computer-generated music is to, I think the creators of it often don't know where they're gonna end up. To be honest, I think my favorite music is all still by human composers. I do enjoy performances by people who live code. There's something really spectacular about that. So there are people who, they will set up the computer and hook it up to speakers and they will hook the text editor up to a projector and they'll have essentially usually a modified form of the programming language list a or people use a few different systems I guess. And they will write a program which producers music onstage and they'll just do it in real time and you know, it starts out sounding terrible of course. And that lasts for about 20 seconds and by about sort of 30 or 40 seconds in, already it's approaching the limits of complex, interesting music and I think even if you don't really have a clue what they're doing as they program, there's still something really hypnotic and interesting about watching them actually go through this process of creating music sort of both before your eyes and before your ears. It's a really interesting creative experience and sometimes quite beautiful. I think I suspect that if I just heard one of those pieces separately, I probably wouldn't do so much for me, but actually having a done in real time and sort of seeing the process of creation, it really changes the experience and makes it very, very interesting. And sometimes, I mean, sometimes it's just beautiful. That's the good moment, right? When clearly the person doing it has something beautiful happen. You feel something beautiful happen and everybody else around you feel something beautiful and spontaneous. It's just happened. That's quite a remarkable experience. Something really interesting is happening with the computer. It's not something that was anticipated by the creator. It arose out of an interaction between them and their machine. And it is actually beautiful. DAVID: Absolutely. Sort of on a similar vein, there's a song called Speed of Life by Dirty South. So I really liked electronic music, but what he does is he constructs a symphony, but he goes one layer at a time. It's about eight and a half minute song and he just goes layer after layer, after layer, after layer. And what's really cool about listening to it is you appreciate the depth of a piece of music that you would never be able to appreciate if you didn't have that. And also by being able to listen to it over and over again. Because before we had recording, you would only hear a certain piece of music live and one time. And so there are new forms that are bursting out of now because we listen to songs so often. MICHAEL: It's interesting to think, there's a sort of a history to that as well. If you go back, essentially modern systems for recording music, if you go back much more than a thousand years. And we didn't really have them. There's a multi-thousand-year history of recorded music. But a lot of the early technology was lost and it wasn't until sort of I think the eighth, ninth century that people started to do it again. But we didn't get all the way to button sheet music overnight. There was a whole lot of different inventions. For instance, the early representations didn't show absolute pitch. They didn't show the duration of the note. Those were ideas that had to be invented. So in I think it was 1026, somebody introduced the idea of actually showing a scale where you can have absolute pitch. And then a century or two after that, Franco of Cologne had the idea of representing duration. And so they said like tiny little things, but then you start to think about, well, what does that mean for the ability to compose music? It means now that actually, you can start to compose pieces, which for many, many, many different instruments. So you start to get the ability to have orchestral music. So you go from being able to basically you have to kind of instruct small groups of players that's the best you can hope to do and get them to practice together and whatever. So maybe you can do something like a piece for a relatively small number of people, but it's very hard to do something for an 80 piece orchestra. Right? So all of a sudden that kind of amazing orchestral music I think becomes possible. And then, you know, we're sort of in version 2.0 of that now where of course you can lay a thousand tracks on top of one another if you want. You get ideas like micropolyphony. And these things where you look at the score and it's just incredible, there are 10,000 notes in 10 seconds. DAVID: Well, to your point I was at a tea house in Berkeley on Monday right by UC Berkeley's campus and the people next to me, they were debating the musical notes that they were looking at but not listening to the music and it was evident that they both had such a clear ability to listen to music without even listening to it, that they could write the notes together and have this discussion and it was somebody who doesn't know so much about music. It was really impressive. MICHAEL: That sounds like a very interesting conversation. DAVID: I think it was. So one thing that I'm interested in and that sort of have this dream of, is I have a lot of friends in New York who do data visualization and sort of two things parallel. I have this vision of like remember the Harry Potter book where the newspaper comes alive and it becomes like a rich dynamic medium. So I have that compared with some immersive world that you can walk through and be able to like touch and move around data and I actually think there's some cool opportunities there and whatnot. But in terms of thinking about the future of being able to visualize numbers and the way that things change and whatnot. MICHAEL: I think it's a really complicated question like it actually needs to be broken down. So one thing, for example, I think it's one of the most interesting things you can do with computers. Lots of people never really get much experience playing with models and yet it's possible to do this. Now, basically, you can start to build very simple models. The example that a lot of people do get that they didn't use to get, is spreadsheets. So, you can sort of create a spreadsheet that is a simple model of your company or some organization or a country or of whatever. And the interesting thing about the spreadsheet is really that you can play with it. And it sort of, it's reactive in this interesting way. Anybody who spends as much time with spreadsheets is they start to build up hypotheses, oh, what would happen if I changed this number over here? How would it affect my bottom line? How would it affect the GDP of the country? How would it affect this? How would it affect that? And you know, as you kind of use it, you start to introduce, you start to make your model more complicated. If you're modeling some kind of a factory yet maybe you start to say, well, what would be the effect if a carbon tax was introduced? So you introduce some new column into the spreadsheet or maybe several extra columns into the spreadsheet and you start to ask questions, well, what would the structure of the carbon tax be? What would help you know, all these sorts of what if questions. And you start very incrementally to build up models. So this experience, of course, so many people take for granted. It was not an experience that almost anybody in the world had say 20 or 30 years ago. Well, spreadsheets data about 1980 or so, but this is certainly an experience that was extremely rare prior to 1980 and it's become a relatively common, but it hasn't made its way out into mass media. We don't as part of our everyday lives or the great majority of people don't have this experience of just exploring models. And I think it's one of the most interesting things which particularly the New York Times and to some extent some of the other newsrooms have done is they've started in a small way to build these models into the news reading experience. So, in particular, the data visualization team at the New York Times, people like Amanda Cox and others have done this really interesting thing where you start to get some of these models. You might have seen, for example, in the last few elections. They've built this very interesting model showing basically if you can sort of make choices about how different states will vote. So if such and such votes for Trump, what are Hillary's chances of winning the election. And you may have seen they have this sort of amazing interactive visualization of it where you can just go through and you can sort of look at the key swing states, what happens if Pennsylvania votes for so and so what happens if Florida does? And that's an example where they've built an enormous amount of sort of pulling information into this model and then you can play with it to build up some sort of understanding. And I mean, it's a very simple example. I certainly think that you know, normatively, we're not there yet. We don't actually have a shared understanding. There's very little shared language even around these models. You think about something like a map. A map is an incredibly sophisticated object, which however we will start learning from a very young age. And so we're actually really good at parsing them. We know if somebody shows us a map, how to engage, how to interpret it, how to use it. And if somebody just came from another planet, actually they need to learn all those things. How do you represent a road? How do you represent a shop on a map? How do you represent this or that, why do we know that up is north like that's a convention. All those kinds of things actually need to be learned and we learned them when we were small. With these kinds of things which the Times and other media outlets are trying to do, we lack all of that collective knowledge and so they're having to start from scratch and I think that over a couple of generations actually, they'll start to evolve a lot of conventions and people will start to take it for granted. But in a lot of contexts actually you're not just going to be given a narrative, you know, just going to be told sort of how some columnist thinks the world is. Instead, you'll actually expect to be given some kind of a model which you can play with. You can start to ask questions and sort of run your own hypotheses in much the same way as somebody who runs a business might actually set up a spreadsheet to model their business and ask interesting questions. It's not perfect. The model is certainly that the map is not the territory as they say, but it is nonetheless a different way of engaging rather than just having some expert tell you, oh, the world is this way. DAVID: I'm interested in sort of the shift from having media be predominantly static to dynamic, which the New York Times is a perfect example. They can tell stories on Newyorktimes.com that they can't tell in the newspaper that gets delivered to your doorstep. But what's really cool about spreadsheets that you're talking about is like when I use Excel, being able to go from numbers, so then different graphs and have the exact same data set, but some ways of visualizing that data totally clicked for me and sometimes nothing happens. MICHAEL: Sure. Yeah. And we're still in the early days of that too. There's so much sort of about literacy there. And I think so much about literacy is really about opportunity. People have been complaining essentially forever that the kids of today are not literate enough. But of course, once you actually provide people with the opportunity and a good reason to want to do something, then they can become very literate very quickly. I think basically going back to the rise of social media sort of 10 or 15 years ago, so Facebook around whatever, 2006, 2007 twitter a little bit later, and then all the other platforms which have come along since. They reward being a good writer. So all of a sudden a whole lot of people who normally wouldn't have necessarily been good writers are significantly more likely to become good writers. It depends on the platform. Certainly, Facebook is a relatively visual medium. Twitter probably helps. I think twitter and text messaging probably are actually good. Certainly, you're rewarded for being able to condense an awful lot into a small period. People complain that it's not good English, whatever that is. But I think I'm more interested in whether something is a virtuosic English than I am and whether or not it's grammatically correct. People are astonishingly good at that, but the same thing needs to start to happen with these kinds of models and with data visualizations and things like that. At the moment, you know, you have this priestly caste that makes a few of them and that's an interesting thing to be able to do, but it's not really part of the everyday experience of most people. It's an interesting question whether or not that's gonna change as it going to in the province of some small group of people, or will it actually become something that people just expect to be able to do? Spreadsheets are super interesting in that regard. They actually did. I think if you've talked to somebody in 1960 and said that by 2018, tens of millions of people around the world would be building sophisticated mathematical models as just part of their everyday life. It would've seemed absolutely ludicrous. But actually, that kind of model of literacy has become relatively common. I don't know whether we'll get to 8 billion people though. I think we probably will. DAVID: So when I was in high school I went to, what I like to say is the weirdest school in the weirdest city in America. I went to the weirdest high school in San Francisco and rather than teaching us math, they had us get in groups of three and four and they had us discover everything on our own. So we would have these things called problem sets and we would do about one a week and the teacher would come around and sort of help us every now and then. But the goal was really to get three or four people to think through every single problem. And they called it discovery-based learning, which you've also talked about too. So my question to you is we're really used to learning when the map is clear and it's clear what to do and you can sort of follow a set path, but you actually do the opposite. The map is unclear and you're actually trailblazing and charting new territory. What strategies do you have to sort of sense where to move? MICHAEL: There's sort of a precursor question which is how do you maintain your morale and the Robert Pirsig book, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. He proposes a university subject, gumptionology 101. Gumption is almost the most important quality that we have. The ability to keep going when things don't seem very good. And mostly that's about having ways of being playful and ways of essentially not running out of ideas. Some of that is about a very interesting tension between having, being ambitious in what you'd like to achieve, but also being very willing to sort of celebrate the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest successes. Suddenly a lot of creative people I know I think really struggle with that. They might be very good at celebrating tiny successes but not have that significant ambitions, but they might be extremely ambitious, but because they're so ambitious, if an idea doesn't look Nobel prize worthy, they're not particularly interested in it. You know, they struggle with just kind of the goofing around and they often feel pretty bad because of course most days you're not at your best, you don't actually have the greatest idea. So there's some interesting tension to manage there. There's really two different types of work. One is where you have a pretty good goal, you know what success looks like, right? But you may also be doing something that's more like problem discovery where you don't even know where you're going. Typically if you're going to compose a piece of music. Well, I'm not a composer, but certainly, my understanding from, from friends who are, is that they don't necessarily start out with a very clear idea of where they're going. Some composers do, but a lot, it's a process of discovery. Actually, a publisher once told me somebody who has published a lot of well-known books that she described one of her authors as a writing for discovery. Like he didn't know what his book was going to be about, he had a bunch of kind of vague ideas and the whole point of writing the book was to actually figure out what it was that he wanted to say, what problem was he really interested in. So we'd start with some very, very good ideas and they kind of get gradually refined. And it was very interesting. I really liked his books and it was interesting to see that. They looked like they'd been very carefully planned and he really knew what he was doing and she told me that no, he'd sort of come in and chat with her and be like, well, I'm sort of interested over here. And he'd have phrases and sort of ideas. But he didn't actually have a clear plan and then he'd get through this process of several years of gradually figuring out what it was that he wanted to say. And often the most significant themes wouldn't actually emerge until relatively late in that whole process. I asked another actually quite a well-known writer, I just bumped into when he was, he was reporting a story for a major magazine and I think he'd been working, he'd been reporting for two weeks, I think at that point. So just out interviewing people and whatever. And I said, how's it going? And he said, Oh yeah, pretty good. I said, what's your story about? He said, I don't know yet, which I thought was very interesting. He had a subject, he was following a person around. But he didn't actually know what his story was. DAVID: So the analogy that I have in my head as you're talking about this, it's like sculpture, right? Where you start maybe with a big thing of granite or whatnot, and slowly but surely you're carving the stone or whatnot and you're trying to come up with a form. But so often maybe it's the little details at the end that are so far removed from that piece of stone at the very beginning that make a sculpture exceptional. MICHAEL: Indeed. And you wonder what's going on. I haven't done sculpture. I've done a lot of writing and writing often feels so sometimes I know what I want to say. Those are the easy pieces to write, but more often it's writing for discovery and there you need to be very happy celebrating tiny improvements. I mean just fixing a word needs to be an event you actually enjoy, if not, the process will be an absolute nightmare. But then there's this sort of instinct where you realize, oh, that's a phrase that A: I should really refine and B: it might actually be the key to making this whole thing work and that seems to be a very instinctive kind of a process. Something that you, if you write enough, you start to get some sense of what actually works for you in those ways. The recognition is really hard. It's very tempting to just discount yourself. Like to not notice when you have a good phrase or something like that and sort of contrary wise sometimes to hang onto your darlings too long. You have the idea that you think it's about and it's actually wrong. DAVID: Why do you write and why do you choose the medium of writing to think through things sometimes? I know that you choose other ones as well. MICHAEL: Writing has this beautiful quality that you can improve your thoughts. That's really helpful. A friend of mine who makes very popular YouTube videos about mathematics has said to me that he doesn't really feel like people are learning much mathematics from them. Instead, it's almost a form of advertising like they get some sense of what it is. They know that it's very beautiful. They get excited. All those things are very important and matter a lot to him, but he believes that only a tiny, tiny number of people are actually really understanding much detail at all. There's actually a small group who have apparently do kind of. They have a way of processing video that lets them understand. DAVID: Also, I think you probably have to, with something like math, I've been trying to learn economics online and with something like math or economics that's a bit complex and difficult, you have to go back and re-watch and re-watch, but I think that there's a human tendency to want to watch more and more and more and it's hard to learn that way. You actually have to watch things again. MICHAEL: Absolutely. Totally. And you know, I have a friend who when he listens to podcasts, if he doesn't understand something, he, he rewinds it 30 seconds. But most people just don't have that discipline. Of course, you want to keep going. So I think the written word for most people is a little bit easier if they want to do that kind of detailed understanding. It's more random access to start with. It's easier to kind of skip around and to concentrate and say, well, I didn't really get that sentence. I'm going to think about it a little bit more, or yeah, I can see what's going to happen in those two or three paragraphs. I'll just very quickly skip through them. It's more built for that kind of detailed understanding, so you're getting really two very different experiences. In the case of the video, very often really what you're getting is principally an emotional experience with some bits and pieces of understanding tacked on with the written word. Often a lot of that emotion is stripped out, which makes can make it much harder to motivate yourself. You need that sort of emotional connection to the material, but it is actually, I think a great deal easier to understand sort of the details of it. There's a real kind of choice to be to be made. There's also the fact that people just seem to respond better to videos. If you want a large audience, you're probably better off making YouTube videos than you are publishing essays. DAVID: My last question to you, as somebody who admires your pace and speed of learning and what's been really fun about preparing for this podcast and come across your work is I really do feel like I've accessed a new perspective on the world which is really cool and I get excited probably most excited when I come across thinkers who don't think like anyone who I've come across before, so I'm asking to you first of all, how do you think about your learning process and what you consume and second of all, who have been the people and the ideas that have really formed the foundation of your thought? MICHAEL: A Kurt Vonnegut quote from his book, I think it's Cat's Cradle. He says, we become what we pretend to be, so you must be careful what we pretend to be and I think there's something closely analogously true, which is that we become what we pay attention to, so we should be careful what we pay attention to and that means being fairly careful how you curate your information diet. There's a lot of things. There's a lot of mistakes I've made. Paying attention to angry people is not very good. I think ideas like the filter bubble, for example, are actually bad ideas. And for the most part, it sounds virtuous to say, oh, I'm going to pay attention to people who disagree with me politically and whatever. Well, okay, there's a certain amount of truth to that. It's a good idea probably to pay attention to the very best arguments from the very best exponents of the other different political views. So sure, seek those people out, but you don't need to seek out the random person who has a different political view from you. And that's how most people actually interpret that kind of injunction. They, they're not looking for the very best alternate points of view. So that's something you need to be careful about. There's a whole lot of things like that I enjoy. So for example, I think one person, it's interesting on twitter to look, he's, he's no longer active but he's still following people is Marc Andreessen and I think he follows, it's like 18,000 people or something and it's really interesting just to look through the list of followers because it's all over the map and much of it I wouldn't find interesting at all, but you'll find the strangest corners people in sort of remote villages in India and people doing really interesting things in South Africa. Okay. So he's a venture capitalist but they're not connected to venture capital at all. So many of them, they're just doing interesting things all over the world and I wouldn't advocate doing the same thing. You kind of need to cultivate your own tastes and your own interests. But there's something very interesting about that sort of capitalist city of interests and curiosity about the world, which I think is probably very good for almost anybody to cultivate. I haven't really answered your question. DAVID: I do want to ask who were the people or the ideas or the areas of the world that have really shaped and inspired your thinking because I'm asking selfishly because I want to go down those rabbit holes. MICHAEL: Alright. A couple of people, Alan Kay and Doug Engelbart, who are two of the people who really developed the idea of what a computer might be. In the 1950's and 60's, people mostly thought computers were machines for solving mathematical problems, predicting the weather next week, computing artillery tables, doing these kinds of things. And they understood that actually there could be devices which humans would use for themselves to solve their own problems. That would be sort of almost personal prosthetics for the mind. They'd be new media. We could use to think with and a lot of their best ideas I think out there, there's still this kind of vision for the future. And if you look particularly at some of Alan Kay's talks, there's still a lot of interesting ideas there. DAVID: That the perspective is worth 80 IQ points. That's still true. MICHAEL: For example, the best way to predict the future is to invent it, right? He's actually, he's got a real gift for coming up with piddly little things, but there's also quite deep ideas. They're not two-year projects or five-year projects, they're thousand year projects or an entire civilization. And we're just getting started on them. I think that's true. Actually. It's in general, maybe that's an interesting variation question, which is, you know, what are the thousand year projects? A friend of mine, Cal Schroeder, who's a science fiction writer, has this term, The Project, which he uses to organize some of his thinking about science fictional civilizations. So The Project is whatever a civilization is currently doing, which possibly no member of the civilization is even aware of. So you might ask the question, what was the project for our planet in the 20th century? I think one plausible answer might be, for example, it was actually eliminating infectious diseases. You think about things like polio and smallpox and so many of these diseases were huge things at the start of the 20th century and they become much, much smaller by the end of the 20th century. Obviously AIDS is this terrible disease, but in fact, by historical comparison, even something like the Spanish flu, it's actually relatively small. I think it's several hundred million people it may have killed. Maybe that was actually the project for human civilization in the 20th century. I think it's interesting to think about those kinds of questions and sort of the, you know, where are the people who are sort of most connected to those? So I certainly think Doug Engelbart and Alan Kay. DAVID: Talk about Doug Engelbart, I know nothing about him. MICHAEL: So Engelbart is the person who I think more than anybody invented modern computing. He did this famous demo in 1968, 1969. It's often called the mother of all demos, in front of an audience of a thousand people I believe. Quite a while since I've watched it and it demonstrates a windowing system and what looks like a modern word processor, but it's not just a word processor. They're actually hooked up remotely to a person in another location and they're actually collaborating in real time. And it's the first public showing I believe of the mouse and of all these different sorts of ideas. And you look at other images of computers at the time and they're these giant machines with tapes and whatever. And here's this vision that looks a lot more like sort of Microsoft Windows and a than anything else. And it's got all these things like real-time collaboration between people in different locations that we really didn't have at scale until relatively recently. And he lays out a huge fraction of these ideas in 1962 in a paper he wrote then. But that paper is another one of these huge things. He's asking questions that you don't answer over two years or five years. You answer over a thousand years. I think it's Augmenting Human Intellect is the title of that paper. So he's certainly somebody else that I think is a very interesting thinker. There's something really interesting about the ability to ask an enormous question, but then actually to have other questions at every scale. So you know what to do in the next 10 minutes that will move you a little bit towar

In Episode 88, you will hear from Amanda Cox, who has worked with Lumos, Faith-to-Action Initiative, and Hope and Homes for Children to help orphaned and vulnerable children around the world flourish. For full show notes, please visit www.thinkorphan.com 

This Sunday, Amanda Cox and I will be talking about the story of Joseph from the book of Genesis. If you are unfamiliar with this story in the Bible, it is a story about sibling rivalry, about how we dehumanize each other, about revenge, about being unjustly accused, and about forgiveness and reconciliation. But more than anything else, it is a mirror of God’s story – a story of a stubborn dreamer in shalom and a foreshadowing of a God who will suffer on behalf of someone else in order to save them. There is a reason that this story has survived for thousands of years. I hope you can join us on Sunday as Amanda and I try to scratch the surface of the depth of this story.

“I'd give two of my left fingers for this data” - Amanda Cox on the show :) We have the great Amanda Cox from the New York Times on the show this time! Amanda is a graphic editor at NYT and she is behind many of the amazing data graphics that the New York Times has produced in recent years. In the show we talk about her background in statistics and how she ended up at the Times. We discuss how she uses R software to collect, analyze, and visualize data, and her thoughts on other tools. We also talk about how data graphics are produced at NYT, with lots of funny stories. Don't miss the parts about the "what, where, when" of data and the "net joy" concept. Lots a data wisdom in this show! --- This episode is sponsored by Tableau Software, helping people connect to any kind of data, and visualize it on the fly - You can download a free trial at http://tableau.com/datastories – check the new Tableau 9! --- LINKS Hadley Wickham - http://had.co.nz/ R Studio - http://shiny.rstudio.com/ Jake Barton: Local Projects - http://localprojects.net/about/ NYT Project: The Best and Worst Places to Grow Up: How Your Area Compares NYT Project: You Draw It: How Family Income Predicts Children’s College Chances Amanda and Kevin’s NYU Data Journalism Course Quadrigram - http://www.quadrigram.com/ (tool for data-driven web sites) Jeff Heer and his IDL Lab at UW - http://idl.cs.washington.edu/ FiveThirtyEight - http://fivethirtyeight.com/ The Upshot - http://www.nytimes.com/upshot/?_r=0

An interview with Amanda Cox, coordinator for the Faith to Action Initiative. Amanda focuses on best practices in orphan care, emphasizing that God’s plan for children involves families. She discusses times when orphanage care is a necessary option, and other times when family-based options for orphans can be found. View the full show notes at povertyunlocked.com