Podcasts about cherokee indians

In the heart of Louisiana's swamps, ancient curses, ghostly hitchhikers, and bloodthirsty cryptids rise from the mist – proving the bayou's darkest legends might be terrifyingly true.Darkness Syndicate members get the ad-free version of #WeirdDarkness: https://weirddarkness.com/syndicateDISCLAIMER: Ads heard during the podcast that are not in my voice are placed by third party agencies outside of my control and should not imply an endorsement by Weird Darkness or myself. *** Stories and content in Weird Darkness can be disturbing for some listeners and intended for mature audiences only. Parental discretion is strongly advised.IN THIS EPISODE: Welcome to a DARKIVE episode from May, 2022! *** We look into the creepy swamps of Louisiana, where gators and snakes are the least of your worries as compared to the paranormal. (Swamp Legends of Louisiana) *** From building fake cities, to creating ghost army bases, to playing stupid in front of the enemy, we'll look at some of the most cleverly deceptive tactics that have been used in war throughout history. (Brilliant Wartime Deceptions) *** Chung Ling Soo was one of the greatest magicians of his time – so much so the he was able to not only conceal items up his sleeves, but conceal his true identity. (The Magician Who Lived a Double Life) *** In 1974 five little girls disappeared in a span of just three months – two were later found deceased, but the remaining three have never been found. And the kidnapper and murderer has never been brought to justice… nor do we have any idea who it was. (The Jacksonville Kidnappings) *** Photographs of strange orblike objects are more common than any other photos purported to be ghosts, aliens, or cryptids. But what exactly are these orbs? A trick of the light… or could they be alive? (Could Ghost Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?) *** In the mountains of Jackson County in North Carolina lies a large mysterious rock covered in petroglyphs that have yet to be deciphered. For the Cherokee Indians, the rock and surrounding area is a sacred site where ceremonies used to take place. Indeed, Judaculla Rock is surrounded by rumors and legends, including strange sounds and UFO sightings during the night. (The Indecipherable Judaculla Rock) *** In 1971 children from all over the United States were being rushed into hospital emergency rooms with a very strange symptom… what was causing otherwise healthy children to create pink poop? (The Pink Poop Pandemic)CHAPTERS & TIME STAMPS (All Times Approximate)…00:00.00.000 = Lead-In00:01:43.150 = Show Open (Coming Up In This Episode)00:04:26.558 = Swamp Legends of Louisiana00:18:40.719 = Brilliant Wartime Deceptions00:28:10.623 = The Magician Who Lived a Double Life00:34:57.913 = The Jacksonville Kidnappings00:46:31.146 = Could Ghostly Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?00:52:21.568 = The Indecipherable Jadaculla Rock00:59:23.097 = The Pink Poop Pandemic01:05:58.331 = Show Close, Verse, and Final ThoughtSOURCES AND RESOURCES FROM THE EPISODE…“The Magician Who Lived a Double Life” by Kaushik Patowary for Amusing Planet:https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/yckvppfw“The Indecipherable Judaculla Rock” by John Black for Ancient Origins Unleashed: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/4jxjra7u“Swamp Legends of Louisiana” by Erin McCann for Graveyard Shift: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/46uj6fyk“The Pink Poop Pandemic” by Roisin Everard for Historic Mysteries: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/5ak8kzv7“The Jacksonville Kidnappings” by Robert A. Waters for Kidnapping, Murder and Mayhem: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/bdfhcbwu“Brilliant Wartime Deceptions” by Jetta for ListVerse: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/4f9xwp3z“Could Ghost Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?” by A. Sutherland for Message To Eagle:https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/5n6awrpm=====(Over time links seen above may become invalid, disappear, or have different content. I always make sure to give authors credit for the material I use whenever possible. If I somehow overlooked doing so for a story, or if a credit is incorrect, please let me know and I will rectify it in these show notes immediately. Some links included above may benefit me financially through qualifying purchases.)= = = = ="I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness." — John 12:46= = = = =WeirdDarkness® is a registered trademark. Copyright ©2025, Weird Darkness.=====Originally aired: May 2022EPISODE PAGE at WeirdDarkness.com (includes list of sources): https://weirddarkness.com/LouisianaSwamps

Kavi's thoughts on Jonah, Leviathan and how the Nephilim survived the flood.Dragons in every ancient culture.Modern day Nephilim and RH Negative blood.A is for Adamski, UFO abductions and the Cherokee Indians.Why has the Jew hate been allowed to increase over recent years?Neville Lancelot Goddard, the Secret, American's are still spiritually alive.Joseph Smith, relics and the Shourd of Turin.Don't blackpill, work your own miracles, belief as a muscle.LinksS3E047: Being Trad Before it was CoolMore Linkswww.MAPSOC.orgFollow Sumo on TwitterAlternate Current RadioSupport the Show!Subscribe to the Podcast on GumroadSubscribe to the Podcast on PatreonBuy Us a Tibetan Herbal TeaSumo's SubstacksHoly is He Who WrestlesModern Pulp

Visit: RadioLawTalk.com for information & full episodes! Follow us on Facebook: bit.ly/RLTFacebook Follow us on Twitter: bit.ly/RLTTwitter Follow us on Instagram: bit.ly/RLTInstagram Subscribe to our YouTube channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UC3Owf1BEB-klmtD_92-uqzg Your Radio Law Talk hosts are exceptional attorneys and love what they do! They take breaks from their day jobs and make time for Radio Law Talk so that the rest of the country can enjoy the law like they do. Follow Radio Law Talk on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter & Instagram!

Federal staff layoffs, spending freezes and other executive orders by the Donald Trump administration jeopardize food pathways for tribes and federal grants and loans for Native farmers. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is helping conservation of an endangered fish called the Sicklefin Redhorse. It has a long and traditional relationship with the tribe in the southeast. The first children's book by Squamish ethnobotanist Leigh Joseph teaches young about Indigenous plant knowledge and harvesting. This Land Knows Me: A Nature Walk Exploring Indigenous Wisdom is an engaging lesson on the plants around us and the cultural stories that go along with them. That's all on The Menu, our regular special feature on Indigenous food hosted and produced by Andi Murphy. GUESTS Carly Griffith Hotvedt (Cherokee Nation), executive director of the Indigenous Food and Agriculture Initiative Styawat / Leigh Joseph (Skwxwú7mesh). ethnobotanist, knowledge keeper, professor at Simon Fraser University, and owner of Sḵwálwen Botanicals Dr. Caleb Hickman (Cherokee Nation), supervisor fisheries and wildlife biologist for the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians

Federal staff layoffs, spending freezes and other executive orders by the Donald Trump administration jeopardize food pathways for tribes and federal grants and loans for Native farmers. The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is helping conservation of an endangered fish called the Sicklefin Redhorse. It has a long and traditional relationship with the tribe in the southeast. The first children's book by Squamish ethnobotanist Leigh Joseph teaches young about Indigenous plant knowledge and harvesting. This Land Knows Me: A Nature Walk Exploring Indigenous Wisdom is an engaging lesson on the plants around us and the cultural stories that go along with them. That's all on The Menu, our regular special feature on Indigenous food hosted and produced by Andi Murphy.

House Committee on Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies Date: Wednesday, February 26, 2025 – 9:30 AM Location: Capitol Complex, 2008 RHOB, Washington, DC, 20515, USA Witnesses Panel one Harry Antonio Governor Pueblo of Laguna Myron Armijo Governor Pueblo of Santa Ana Charles Riley Governor Pueblo of Acoma Panel two Chuck Hoskin Jr. Principal Chief Cherokee Nation Jonodev Chaudhuri Ambassador Muscogee (Creek) Nation Rodney Butler Chairman Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation and Native American Finance Officers Association Panel three Mitchell Hicks Principal Chief Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians Cheyenne Robinson Secretary Omaha Tribe of Nebraska Victoria Kitcheyan Chairwoman Winnebago Tribe of Nebraska Panel four Doreen Leavitt Tribal Council Secretary Iñupiat Community of the Artic Slope David Boxley Councilman Metlakatla Indian Community Cynthia Petersen President Yakutat Tlingit Tribe Panel five Stephen Roe Lewis Governor Gila River Indian Community Duane Clarke Chairman Hualapai Tribe Martin Harvier President Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community Terry Rambler Chairman San Carlos Apache Tribe Panel six Carla Johnson Vice-Chairwoman Tohono O'odham Nation of Arizona Tanya Lewis Chairwoman Yavapai-Apache Nation of Arizona More on Indianz.Com: https://indianz.com/News/2025/02/24/video-american-indian-and-alaska-native-public-witness-hearing-day-2-morning-session/

House Committee on Appropriations Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies Date: Tuesday, February 25, 2025 – 1:30 PM Location: Capitol Complex, 2008 RHOB, Washington, DC, 20515, USA WITNESSES Panel one Jeffrey Stiffarm President Fort Belknap Indian Community Harlan Baker Chairman Chippewa Cree Tribe Business Committee and Rocky Boy Health Center Ryan Rusche Citizen Assiniboine and Sioux Tribes of Fort Peck Panel two Carole Lankford Councilwoman Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation Gene Small President Northern Cheyenne Tribe Panel three Bruce Savage Chairman Fond du Lac Band of Lake Superior Chippewa Darrell Seki Sr. Chairman Red Lake Band Chippewa Indians Leonard Fineday Secretary Treasurer Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe Virgil Wind Chief Executive Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe Panel four J. Conrad “JC” Seneca President Seneca Nation Wena Supernaw Business Committee Chair Quapaw Nation Jeff Wacoche Chief United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians Panel five Ken Ahmann Tribal Utility Authority Director Colusa Indian Community Council Jose Simon III Chairman Middletown Rancheria of Pomo Indians Panel six Josh Cook Director of Intergovernmental Affairs Mooretown Rancheria of Maidu Indians Lester “Shine” Nieto Chairman Tule River Indian Tribe of California James Naranjo Governor Pueblo of Santa Clara More on Indianz.Com: https://indianz.com/News/2025/02/24/video-american-indian-and-alaska-native-public-witness-hearing-day-1-afternoon-session/

On February 18, 2013, a caregiver confessed to killing a 15-month-old girl, Aubrey Littlejohn, a member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. Despite documented reports of abuse and neglect, local social workers allowed the woman to continue taking care of the child. Social workers are charged with fabricating a cover-up in the abuse case. Intro music by Joe Buck YourselfHosts Heather and Dylanwww.mountainmurderspodcast.com Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/mountain-murders--3281847/support.

Charlene Phillips was ridiculed by her Cherokee Indian family when she found the answer to her broken spirit. But one by one they agreed. Don't miss the inspiring conclusion to her testimony…another true dramatization coming soon on Unshackled!

Hatred drove Charlene Phillips to fight with a fury until someone taught her to love. Don't miss the first of this Cherokee Indian's two-part testimony, another true dramatization coming soon on “Unshackled!”

In this episode, we cover significant developments in two emotional cases. Nearly five years after Selena Not Afraid's disappearance, an arrest has been made, bringing new hope for justice in her case. We also discuss the recent conclusion of a trial related to the 2021 deaths of Jessica “Jet” Calhoun and her daughter, Ah-Yo-Ka “Yoki Bear” Calhoun, both members of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. Tune in as we share these updates and honor the lives impacted by these devastating events.Sources:https://theonefeather.com/2024/12/11/wilnoty-receives-two-counts-of-felony-death-by-vehicle-murder-charges-dismissed/https://www.ktvq.com/news/crime-watch/man-charged-5-years-after-disappearance-of-hardin-teen-selena-not-afraidSupport the show

Did you know the Great Smoky Mountains are within a day's drive of half the U.S. population? While these misty peaks and ancient forests are a national treasure, they are also fragile. Smoky Mountain Host of NC (Visit Smokies) helps protect this region's natural beauty, with its Visitor Center serving as a welcoming gateway. It connects travelers with historic downtowns, and vibrant arts, fostering connections to preserve the Smokies' charm for generations to come. Join Mici Canales, Communications Director, as we dive into the region's future and how we can protect its irreplaceable landscape. Also on this episode of Speaking of Travel, discover how the The Cherokee Historical Association (CHA) is working tirelessly to protect and share the cultural heritage of the Cherokee people. Learn from Laura Blythe, CHA Program Director, and Lance Culpepper, Operations Director, about exciting future projects, new events, and the vibrant legacy of this remarkable community dedicated to preserving the rich heritage of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. ᎠᎾᎵᎮᎵᎬ  Tune in! Only on Speaking of Travel! Photo = Laura Blyth (L) Lance Culpepper (C) Mici Canales (R)Thanks for listening to Speaking of Travel! Visit speakingoftravel.net for travel tips, travel stories, and ways you can become a more savvy traveler.

  Yet another gambling casino opened close to North Carolina last month when the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians and the corporate giant Caesar's christened a new facility just across the border in Danville, Virginia. And between it, a pair of tribal casinos in western North Carolina and the explosion of legalized sports gambling in […]

Sen. Thom Tillis (R-North Carolina) lashes out against the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians at a hearing on sports betting on December 17, 2024. According to Tillis, the Eastern Band is using gaming revenues to fund lobbying efforts in Washington, D.C. He claimed the money was being used to oppose federal recognition for the Lumbee Tribe, a state-recognized group in North Carolina. " Well, I just happen to be spending a lot of quality time with the Eastern Band of the Cherokee, debating why they're spending all this money that they're making off of gambling, trying to prevent a tribe that has been denied recognition for 130 years from getting recognition in the state of North Carolina," Tillis said at a hearing of the Senate Committee on the Judiciary. During his remarks, Tillis displayed a poster titled "The Network Working Against the Lumbee Tribe." It included the seal of the Eastern Band and the photo and name of Wilson Pipestem, a prominent lobbyist who has worked for the Eastern Band. Despite the presence of the imagery, Tillis referred to Pipestem as "William," repeating a slip-up he made on the U.S. Senate floor on November 21, 2024. The poster also featured the logo of the United Indian Nations of Oklahoma, along with the name of Ben Barnes, the chair of the organization and the chief of the Shawnee Tribe. Tillis is the sponsor of S.521, the Lumbee Fairness Act. The bill would extend federal recognition to the Lumbee Tribe, whose leaders have been trying to gain acknowledgment as an Indian tribe for more than a century. The Eastern Band, the United Indian Nations of Oklahoma and numerous other tribes and tribal organizations have been calling on the Lumbees to go through the federal acknowledgment process at the Bureau of Indian Affairs. The Lumbees are instead pursuing recognition through an act of Congress. The Senate hearing, titled "America's High-Stakes Bet on Legalized Sports Gambling," did not feature any tribal or Indian Country witnesses. Committee Notice: https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/committee-activity/hearings/americas-high-stakes-bet-on-legalized-sports-gambling

If you ever buy or sell a parcel of land or build a home or business, you'll likely need a land surveyor. They are the first professionals on the scene when people need to find and document property lines, reservation boundaries, utilities, and topography. On a bigger scale, much of the American west was originally mapped and named by explorers like Lewis and Clark and John Wesley Powell in the 1800s. It's now up to Native American surveyors to include their unique understanding of the land going forward. We'll hear from Native land surveyors about their work and the need to recruit more Native people to their ranks. GUESTS Halbert Goldtooth (Diné), professional land surveyor and owner of Goldtooth Surveying Jake Stephens (member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), manager of the Tribal Surveying Office for the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians Jamie Hansen, survey manager for the Shoshone-Bannock Tribes

Amid chaos following Hurricane Helene, hear how BIPOC journalists redefine community engagement by addressing urgent needs in western North Carolina.This show is made possible by you! To become a sustaining member go to https://LauraFlanders.org/donate Thank you for your continued support!Description:  Some residents had no food, electricity, or cell service after Hurricane Helene ravaged the western part of North Carolina in October. Amidst misinformation and no information, local media had to step in to inform desperate people fast. This month on “Meet the BIPOC Press”, we explore what media outlets did to serve their people in that moment. Laura and co-host Amir Khafagy, a journalist with the New York City-based publication Documented, speak with two local BIPOC media projects that saved lives and expanded their relationship with their communities. Our guests are Brooklyn Brown, Reporter for Cherokee One Feather, the local newspaper of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians; and Magaly Urdiales, co-founder of JMPRO Community Media (“Justice Media Project”), a grassroots nonprofit that shares essential news and information with immigrant communities in Spanish, English and Mayan Indigenous languages. As they found themselves at the frontlines of relief efforts, how did these local outlets redefine journalism?“. . . Objectivity doesn't have to be cold. Reporting the facts doesn't have to be without passion. That's something I see a lot in community journalism, is that we are able to practice good journalism while also having a heart for the community that we're covering.” - Brooklyn Brown“I think many barriers and many problems of the corporate media came in place. We were called for people that were looking for a story, that were looking for somebody that was crying because their loved one wasn't found yet. And for us it was frustrated . . . in a moment like this, that can be transactional.” - Magaly UrdialesGuests:• Brooklyn Brown (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians): Reporter, Cherokee One Feather• Magaly Urdiales: Co-founder, JMPRO Community Media• Amir Khafagy (Co-host): Journalist, Report for America Member, DocumentedWatch the broadcast episode cut for time at our YouTube channel and airing on PBS stations across the country Subscribe to episode notes via PatreonMusic In the Middle:  Novalima remix of “La Voz” by Eljuri, courtesy of the artist.  And additional music included- "Steppin"  by Podington Bear. Related Laura Flanders Show Episodes:• Where Do We Go From Here? Frontline Activists Talk Election ‘24 Takeaways, Watch / Podcast:  Abridged or Full Conversation• Climate Change Journalism: Moving Frontline Communities from the Sideline to the Center, Watch / Podcast• BIPOC Press for the People: Bursting the Corporate Media Bubble, Watch / Podcast:  Abridged or Full ConversationRelated Articles and Resources:•  “Joey in chaos,” The giving heart of the Ice Cream Social, by Brooklyn Brown, October 15, 2024, Cherokee One Feather• JM Pro Community Media Podcast, Listen• Helene Response and Recovery, updates posted daily - Ashville, NC This show is made possible thanks our members! To become a sustaining member go to https://LauraFlanders.org/donate Our year end goal is to raise $50,000.  Everyone who donates $25 or greater on Giving Tuesday, December 3rd, will receive a complimentary one year subscription to The Nation, both print and digital. Thank you for your continued support!    Laura Flanders and Friends Crew: Laura Flanders, along with Sabrina Artel, Jeremiah Cothren, Veronica Delgado, Erika Harley, Janet Hernandez, Jeannie Hopper, Sarah Miller, Nat Needham, David Neuman, and Rory O'Conner. FOLLOW Laura Flanders and FriendsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/lauraflandersandfriends/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LFAndFriendsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/LauraFlandersAndFriends/Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lauraflandersandfriendsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFLRxVeYcB1H7DbuYZQG-lgLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lauraflandersandfriendsPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/lauraflandersandfriendsACCESSIBILITY - The broadcast edition of this episode is available with closed captioned by clicking here for our YouTube Channel

Description: Some residents had no food, electricity, or cell service after Hurricane Helene ravaged the western part of North Carolina in October. Amidst misinformation and no information, local media had to step in to inform desperate people fast. This month on “Meet the BIPOC Press”, we explore what media outlets did to serve their people in that moment. Laura and co-host Amir Khafagy, a journalist with the New York City-based publication Documented, speak with two local BIPOC media projects that saved lives and expanded their relationship with their communities. Our guests are Brooklyn Brown, Reporter for Cherokee One Feather, the local newspaper of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians; and Magaly Urdiales, co-founder of JMPRO Community Media (“Justice Media Project”), a grassroots nonprofit that shares essential news and information with immigrant communities in Spanish, English and Mayan Indigenous languages. As they found themselves at the frontlines of relief efforts, how did these local outlets redefine journalism?“. . . Objectivity doesn't have to be cold. Reporting the facts doesn't have to be without passion. That's something I see a lot in community journalism, is that we are able to practice good journalism while also having a heart for the community that we're covering.” - Brooklyn Brown“I think many barriers and many problems of the corporate media came in place. We were called for people that were looking for a story, that were looking for somebody that was crying because their loved one wasn't found yet. And for us it was frustrated . . . in a moment like this, that can be transactional.” - Magaly UrdialesGuests:• Brooklyn Brown (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians): Reporter, Cherokee One Feather• Magaly Urdiales: Co-founder, JMPRO Community Media• Amir Khafagy (Co-host): Journalist, Report for America Member, Documented Watch the broadcast episode cut for time at our YouTube channel and airing on PBS stations across the country  Related Laura Flanders Show Episodes:• Where Do We Go From Here? Frontline Activists Talk Election ‘24 Takeaways, Watch / Podcast:  Abridged or Full Conversation • Climate Change Journalism: Moving Frontline Communities from the Sideline to the Center, Watch / Podcast• BIPOC Press for the People: Bursting the Corporate Media Bubble, Watch / Podcast:  Abridged or Full ConversationRelated Articles and Resources:•  “Joey in chaos,” The giving heart of the Ice Cream Social, by Brooklyn Brown, October 15, 2024, Cherokee One Feather• JM Pro Community Media Podcast, Listen• Helene Response and Recovery, updates posted daily - Ashville, NC Full Episode Notes are located HERE. They include related episodes, articles, and more. Laura Flanders and Friends Crew: Laura Flanders, along with Sabrina Artel, Jeremiah Cothren, Veronica Delgado, Erika Harley, Janet Hernandez, Jeannie Hopper, Sarah Miller, Nat Needham, David Neuman, and Rory O'Conner. FOLLOW Laura Flanders and FriendsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/lauraflandersandfriends/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LFAndFriendsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/LauraFlandersAndFriends/Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lauraflandersandfriendsYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFLRxVeYcB1H7DbuYZQG-lgLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/lauraflandersandfriendsPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/lauraflandersandfriendsACCESSIBILITY - The broadcast edition of this episode is available with closed captioned by clicking here for our YouTube Channel

The Lumbee Nation counts 55,000 members, and although they are not federally recognized and have no tribal trust land, they have a strong cultural identity. The possibility of federal recognition is a factor in who members support in the presidential race. Across the state, the smaller, but federally recognized, Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians has political and economic muscle and opposes Lumbee recognition. We'll explore the dynamics of navigating the Native vote in a critical swing state. GUESTS John Cummings (Lumbee Tribe), chairman of the Robeson County Board of Commissioners Christopher Reed (enrolled member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), vice chair of the North Carolina District 11 Democratic Party Jesalyn Kaziah (Lumbee), executive director of the Triangle Native American Society

In this episode, I have Kallup McCoy back on the podcast to brain storm how to set myself up for success to shoot for a Boston Qualifying time this April at the Jersey City Marathon. This episode is great for anyone who wants to understand the complexities behind marathon programming and how the needs differ between person to person. About Coach Kallup Kallup McCoy II is a proud member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, a certified personal trainer, and a dedicated run coach. As the owner of Lions Den Fitness and Running, he has made it his mission to inspire and guide others on their fitness journeys. Kallup's passion for running has taken him to incredible heights, including participating in the prestigious Boston Marathon both last year and in the upcoming year. His determination and perseverance have been recognized by Men's Health, where he was featured in an article that shared his inspiring story of overcoming addiction and embracing a path of recovery Kallup's dedication to health, healing, and personal growth is evident in everything he does. Through his work as a personal trainer, his accomplishments as a runner, and his commitment to sharing his story, he continues to inspire and uplift those around himConnect with Coach KallupEmailmccoykallup@icloud.comWebsitehttps://Liondenrunningandfitness.comInstagram@_recoverylion86Connect with Dr. KatInstagram-  @Runwithkat_dptTik-tok- @Runwithkat_dptFacebook Group- RunwithKat ShowWebsite- RunwithKat.net

Welcome back, dear listener. In today's episode, I got to chat about the intersection between nervous system regulation and sex with my wonderful guest Vanessa Blackstone.   Vanessa is a therapist, a citizen of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, and she is the Executive Director of the Pain Psychology Center as well as a co-author of The Pain Reprocessing Therapy Workbook, which is available for pre-order now and comes out on November 1st, so I definitely recommend you grab a copy.   Vanessa earned her M.S. in Social Work from the University of Southern California and, following her own personal recovery from chronic pain, Vanessa began her career as a therapist in 2018. In addition to chronic pain treatment, she specializes in sex therapy, substance use and recovery, and mindfulness based relapse prevention, and she also works on film sets as an On-set Wellness Professional.   Outside of her professional roles, Vanessa is a former foster youth who advocates for current and former foster youth by sharing her personal experiences in public speaking events.   I have wanted to meet Vanessa for a while, but I was especially grateful to have a conversation with her about sex. Even in the year 2024, sex is STILL a taboo topic and it's hard to find useful information that centers our human experience around sex, which includes our emotions, our beliefs, and our nervous systems as well as our physical sensations. Sex is an area where many folks with chronic pain struggle and feel isolated in that struggle. So, I am honored to share this conversation with Vanessa, who brings such compassion and humanity to the subject of sex.   You can find Vanessa at: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/that.therapist Book: https://www.newharbinger.com/9781648483769/the-pain-reprocessing-therapy-workbook/ The Pain Psychology Center: https://www.painpsychologycenter.com/our-team/   And you can find me at: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@anna_holtzman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email: anna@annaholtzman.com Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.annaholtzman.com⁠Journaling Course: www.annaholtzman.com/writingtorelease --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/from-chronic-pain-to-pass/support

Some colleges and universities say Native American admissions for the class of 2028 have suffered after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down race-conscious recruitment. Harvard University reports a drop in enrollment for Native students and other students of color. Other colleges say it's still too early to say. We'll get an update on the trends for Native enrollment in post-secondary education and how Native students can adjust to the new admissions reality. GUESTS Mikaela Crank (Navajo Nation), scholars program director for College Horizons Matt Ybarra, program director for Rural Opportunities for College Access (ROCA) Dr. Corey Still (citizen of the United Keetoowah band of Cherokee Indians), senior research director at One Fire Associates, LLC

Republican U.S. Senate challenger Tim Sheehy is drawing fire from Montana tribal officials for comments deemed derogatory against the state's Native American residents. A recording of the comments at a previous public appearance surfaced at the end of August. In a candidate debate, incumbent Sen. Jon Tester (D-MT) called on Sheehy to apologize. In a state with 70,000 Native Americans and seven federally recognized Native reservations, how the candidates appeal to Native voters could make a difference in the outcome of a close race. Plus, we'll get updates on Hurricane Helene damage from North Carolina. GUESTS Levi Black Eagle (Apsáalooke), secretary of the Crow Tribe Jordan James Harvill (Cherokee and Choctaw), national program director for Advance Native Political Leadership Anthony Sequoyah (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), secretary of operations for the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians

Emergency supplies are now being airlifted into western North Carolina to help the victims of Helene. The storm brought excessive rainfall and devasting flash flooding to the region – cutting off some communities from the outside world. If you or someone you know is in need of help, here's how to apply. If you were impacted by Hurricane Helene, you may be eligible to receive disaster assistance from FEMA. This funding could help pay for essential items, temporary housing assistance, repairs to your home, and more. Whether you live in North Carolina or South Carolina, there are three ways to apply: you can visit www.disasterassistance.gov, call 1-800-621-3362 or use the FEMA App. 25 counties in North Carolina have received a major disaster declaration. The counties on your screen now are the eligible counties in North Carolina. The counties of Alexander, Alleghany, Ashe, Avery, Buncombe, Burke, Caldwell, Catawba, Clay, Cleveland, Gaston, Haywood, Henderson, Jackson, Lincoln, Macon, Madison, McDowell, Mitchell, Polk, Rutherford, Transylvania, Watauga, Wilkes, and Yancey Counties and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians are included in the declaration. In South Carolina, you must live in one of these places - 13 Aiken, Anderson, Bamberg, Barnwell, Cherokee, Greenville, Greenwood, Lexington, Newberry, Oconee, Pickens, Saluda and Spartanburg counties can apply. In North Carolina, if you or someone you know needs food, water or other necessities you can call 211. This is also the same number you call to report a loved one missing. So if you're calling from out of state, you can dial 1-888-892-1162 to reach the hotline, which is being run by the United Way of North Carolina. As a Carolina Weather Group fan, you can donate to the American Red cross at http://bit.ly/wxpodstelethon

2 Alaska tribal groups sue NOAA Fisheries over pollock catch limits Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians part of Biden disaster declaration Orange Shirt Day marked across Canada with recognition events Newsom signs 7 tribal bills on day honoring Calif. Natives

Yup'iks know them as Ircenrraat. Poncas refer to them as Gadázhe. Cherokees call them Yunwi Tsunsdi. In some cases, they are caretakers or protectors. Other times they are tricksters or menacing goblins. Most tribes have traditions that fit under the umbrella of "little people". They bear resemblance to fairies in other cultures. They are elusive supernatural beings that show up in stories or are invoked to explain good luck or misfortune. GUESTS Mark John (Yup'ik), cultural adviser and elder Cliff Taylor (Ponca Tribe of Nebraska), poet, storyteller, and author of The Memory of Souls Kathi Littlejohn (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), storyteller

Welcome to another inspiring episode of the "I Am Dad" podcast, where we explore the dynamic world of fatherhood, parenting, and family well-being. I'm your host, Kenneth Braswell, and today we have an extraordinary guest who has dedicated her career to supporting families and fostering strong communities. Joining us is Sandy Cloer, the Division Director for The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (EBCI) Tribal Child Support, TANF, and Representative Payee Programs. Sandy's remarkable journey began with a degree in Business from Winsalm College, which paved the way for her 18-year tenure in Child Support with The State of North Carolina. In 2009, she brought her extensive experience and deep understanding of the EBCI community to her role with the EBCI, helping to develop their child support program and subsequently launching their Tribal TANF Program in 2012 and the Representative Payee Program in 2015. Sandy's leadership extends beyond her immediate responsibilities. She oversees a dedicated team of 17 employees, including a process server and court clerk to the Cherokee Tribal Court. Her contributions to the field are widely recognized, serving six years on the Board of Directors for the NC Child Support Council, acting as Secretary for the National Tribal Child Support Directors Association, and currently presiding as President of the National Tribal Child Support Association. Beyond her professional achievements, Sandy is also a proud mother of two children, Michelle and James. Her commitment to family and community is truly inspiring, and we are thrilled to have her share her insights and experiences with us today.

More than half of Native American elders from rural areas have some sort of cognitive impairment, a condition that ranges from mild memory loss all the way to dementia. That's the conclusion of a new, first-of-its-kind research by The Strong Heart Study over seven years. It focused on members of 11 tribes and included cognitive testing, neurological examinations, and brain imaging. The study points to high rates of vascular disease, diabetes, and traumatic brain injury in Native populations as contributors. We'll hear about the study, advice for preventing and diagnosing cognitive impairments, and programs aimed at helping elders experiencing symptoms. GUESTS Dr. Lonnie Nelson (descendant of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), clinical psychologist and researcher David Baldridge (Cherokee), co-founder and senior advisor of the International Association for Indigenous Aging Breana Dorame (Gabrielino Tongva), tribal public health and senior associate with the International Association for Indigenous Aging

As host of the RunwithKat Show, there is nothing more I love than empowering runners to run the healthiest and fastest. But, there is so much more to running than just racing and PR's. Running teaches us how to be more resilient, overcome adversity, and inspires us to be our very best everyday, and in some ways, running saves us more than we know. So, in this episode I have runner and coach Kallup Mccoy here to talk about how running helped him overcome his battle with addiction and the power of mindset. 00:00 Introduction and Background03:10 Running as a Connection to Identity09:22 Overcoming Addiction and Finding Purpose12:16 The Power of Mindset in Running29:19 Building Resilience and Overcoming Challenges00:02 Introduction and Background10:19 Overcoming Addiction and Finding Purpose Through Running28:51 The Power of Community in Pushing Us to Reach Our Potential34:01 Starting Slow and Setting Challenging Goals in Running42:34 Kallup McCoy II's Documentary: 'A Runner's High'52:33 Closing Remarks and Future PlansAbout Coach KallupKallup McCoy II, who once battled a 15-year meth and opioid addiction, is the visionary founder of RezHOPE and the proud owner of Lionsden Fitness and Running LLC. With a passion for fitness and a heart for inspiring others, Kallup is an ACE certified personal trainer and a run coach. His journey is a testament to the transformative power of faith and fitness, which have been instrumental in his own life and recovery.Kallup's impressive running achievements include running a remarkable 2:40 at the Boston Marathon, conquering a half Ironman, completing numerous ultramarathons, including a hundred miler, and running 800 miles in his early recovery, retracing the Trail of Tears from Cherokee, NC to Tahlequah, OK to raise money for the organization and awareness about stigma and recovery. His remarkable story has been featured in Men's Health magazine and various podcasts, showcasing his resilience and determination.Believing in the profound impact of storytelling, Kallup is dedicated to using his experiences to inspire and uplift others. He firmly believes that our trials can be transformed into triumphs and that our pain can be a source of purpose. Kallup's mission is to serve his community and shine as a beacon of hope for all those he encounters.Additional infoKallup McCoy II is a proud member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, a certified personal trainer, and a dedicated run coach. As the owner of Lions Den Fitness and Running, he has made it his mission to inspire and guide others on their fitness journeys. Kallup's passion for running has taken him to incredible heights, including participating in the prestigious Boston Marathon both last year and in the upcoming year. His determination and perseverance have been recognized by Men's Health, where he was featured in an article that shared his inspiring story of overcoming addiction and embracing a path of recovery Kallup's dedication to health, healing, and personal growth is evident in everything he does. Through his work as a personal trainer, his accomplishments as a runner, and his commitment to sharing his story, he continues to inspire and uplift those around him.Connect with Coach KallupWebsiteLiondenrunningandfitness.comInstagram@_recoverylion86

The survival of American Indian and Alaska Native languages is essential to the success of tribal communities and Native ways of life. However, without urgent and sustained intervention, far too many Native languages risk extinction within the coming decades. In this episode of The Sentinel, we highlight the urgency of this issue, and examine the creative and innovative solutions that many tribal communities are undertaking to counteract language loss.   First, we hear from Daniel Golding (Fort Yuma Quechan Indian Tribe), producer of the documentary “Language is Life,” which aired on the PBS network as part of the “Native America” series. Golding sheds light on the inherent challenges of revitalizing Native languages and his own unique personal perspective as he embarked upon learning the Quechan language.    Next, we present segments from the “Native Language Preservation” panel discussion held at the 2024 NCAI Mid Year Convention & Marketplace in Cherokee, North Carolina. Representatives from the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians, Cherokee Nation, Sault Ste. Marie Tribe of Chippewa Indians, and Fort Yuma Quechan Indian Tribe participated in a lively discussion at the Third General Assembly. Panelists recounted the challenges of language preservation, but also shared strategies, projects and techniques that have resulted in successful outcomes for their tribal communities.  

Welcome to Episode 108 of Air Tight, your go-to source for the latest and greatest in the world of cannabis!  This week, we're sailing into groundbreaking news stories that are shaking up the cannabis community: Cherokee Cannabis Home Grow: The Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians has made a historic decision to allow cannabis home growing for residents on their reservation.  We'll explore what this means for the tribe, its culture, and its economy.  Cannabis by Boat: Imagine getting your cannabis delivered by boat!  A dispensary in Massachusetts is suing the state for the right to deliver cannabis to Martha's Vineyard. South Africa's Green Light: In a major win for cannabis advocates, South Africa has decriminalized cannabis for personal use.  We'll break down the new laws, compare them with other countries. But that's not all!  We've got some fantastic music lined up to keep you grooving through the episode.  Enjoy tracks from Charley Crockett, Keith Mansfield, Lou Rawls, Vox Americana, and many more.  Whether you're a long-time listener or new to the show, you'll love our mix of news, music, and cannabis culture. Join us for an hour of informative, fun, and cheeky discussions that you won't want to miss. Make sure to engage with us on social media using our best hashtags: #CannabisNews #CannabisCommunity #CherokeeCannabis #BoatDelivery #Decriminalization #GreenWave #SouthAfricaCannabis #MarthasVineyard #AirTight108 #GreenCoastRadio. Tune in, turn up the volume, and get ready to be informed and entertained!

Guest Bios Show Transcript https://youtu.be/fFImYJWb2XUNancy French was once a darling of the GOP—and ghostwrote books, speeches, and articles for some of the leading conservative politicians. But then came Donald Trump's candidacy for president—something as both a Christian and a sex abuse survivor, Nancy says she could not support. Then, she was ghosted. In this edition of The Roys Report, Nancy French, a New York Times bestselling author and Christian conservative, recounts how she's been called some of the worst names in the book. Why? Simply because she and her husband, New York Times opinion columnist David French, refused to violate their convictions and promote Donald Trump. Even more egregious to some, Nancy published an article in the Washington Post explaining why, as a sex abuse survivor, she couldn't support a man who bragged about assaulting women. As a result, she lost every ghostwriting client she had. And she found herself unwelcome in her own tribe and her own church. But Nancy tells about much more in her book than just the events of the last few years. She tells about her humble beginnings, her sexual assault by a pastor who taught Vacation Bible School, and the dramatic change in her life when she met her husband, David French. Nancy French and her husband have been at the center of the major upheaval our nation has faced—as a new political paradigm invaded the church pews. As an abuse survivor and woman of conviction, Nancy courageously shares her story that has insights for every listener. Guests Nancy French Nancy French has collaborated on multiple books for celebrities - five of which made the New York Times best seller list. She has conducted a multi-year journalistic investigation, written commentary, and published for the nation's most prominent newspapers and magazines. She has written several books under her own name and tells her own story in Ghosted: An American Story. She lives in Franklin, Tennessee with her husband – journalist David French – and family. Learn more at NancyFrench.com. Show Transcript SPEAKERSJulie Roys, NANCY FRENCH Julie Roys  00:04Nancy French was once a darling of the GOP and ghostwrote books, speeches, and articles for some of the leading conservative politicians. But then came Donald Trump’s candidacy for president; something as both a Christian and a sex abuse survivor, Nancy couldn’t support. Then she was ghosted. Welcome to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. I’m Julie Roys. And joining me today is Nancy French, a New York Times best-selling author, a Christian and a conservative who’s been called some of the worst names in the book. Why? Simply because she and her husband, New York Times opinion columnist David French, refused to violate their convictions and promote Donald Trump. Even more egregious to some, Nancy published an article in the Washington Post explaining why as a sex abuse survivor, she couldn’t support a man who bragged about assaulting women. As a result, she lost every ghostwriting client she had, and she found herself unwelcome in her own tribe and her own church. Nancy writes about all of this in her book Ghosted, which we’re offering this month to anyone who gives a gift of $50 or more to The Roys Report. And if you’d like to do that, just go to JULIEROYS.COM/DONATE. But Nancy tells about much more in her book than just the events of the last few years. She tells us about her humble beginnings, her sexual assault by a pastor who taught Vacation Bible School, and the dramatic change in her life when she met her husband, David French. I’m so excited to share both the book and this podcast with you. But first, I’d like to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Talbot Seminary and Marquardt of Barrington. Are you passionate about impacting the world so it reflects biblical ideals of justice? The Talbot School of Theology Doctor of Ministry program is launching a new track exploring the theological, social, and practical dimensions of biblical justice today. The program equips students with the knowledge, skills and spiritual foundation needed to address social issues with wisdom and compassion. Justice has become a key issue in our culture. But more importantly, it’s an issue that’s close to God’s heart. While it’s clear the Bible calls God’s people to pursue justice, we must be guided by his word within that pursuit. Talbot has created this track to do just that. As part of this program, you’ll examine issues such as trafficking, race, immigration, and poverty. And I’ll be teaching a session as well focusing on the right use of power in our churches, so we can protect the vulnerable rather than harm them. So join me and a community of like-minded scholars committed to social change and ethical leadership. Apply now at TALBOT.EDU/DMIN. Also, if you’re looking for a quality new or used car, I highly recommend my friends at Marquardt of Barrington. Marquardt is a Buick GMC dealership where you can expect honesty, integrity, and transparency. That’s because the owners there Dan and Kurt Marquardt, are men of character. To check them out. Just go to BUYACAR123.COM. Well again joining me is New York Times best-selling author Nancy French. As a ghostwriter, she’s written for a variety of people, from well-known politicians to celebrities. She’s also investigated and exposed widespread sexual and spiritual abuse at Kanakuk camp, America’s largest Christian camp, and her latest book Ghosted, tells her remarkable story of growing up in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains, marrying David French, a New York Times opinion columnist, becoming a ghostwriter for conservative political leaders. And then when she and her husband opposed Trump, getting kicked out by their own tribe and then becoming the target of white nationalists and Trump supporters. So Nancy, welcome, and it’s just such a privilege to have you.   NANCY FRENCH  04:08 Thanks for having me on. This is fun.   Julie Roys  04:11 And I know that this is not the best time for you to be doing a book tour. You’ve been very public about your struggle with cancer. And I know you’re going through chemo. And I just feel honored that you’d be willing to take the time in the middle of something like that to talk about this. So thank you.   NANCY FRENCH  04:27 Yeah, no, thank you so much. Yes, I think I’ve done pretty well with all the interviews, even though I’m high as a kite on prednisone. And I haven’t said too many things that I maybe regretted later. But I’m very thankful to be able to have a book out. It just so happens, it’s in the middle of chemo. So this is gonna get real.   Julie Roys  04:45 Yeah. Well, absolutely. And I was surprised when I read your book. I mean, you and David are kind of like this powerhouse couple. And yet, you had very humble beginnings. In fact, your grandparents lived in the mountains of Appalachia; you lived in the foothills because your parents moved. But again, they were interesting sort of rough and tumble group of people. In fact, your dad used to joke that your family was famous or maybe infamous is a better word. Tell us a little bit about that and the background of your family.   NANCY FRENCH  05:19 Yeah, we get accused a lot of being like Washington, DC cocktail party elites or whatever. I don’t even go to Washington DC. I am from Tennessee. My parents are from Montego mountain. My grandfather was a coal miner. My dad did not graduate from high school. He got his GED. And he later in his 50s went back to college. But  he went to college, he got a degree and amazing man. But yeah, from self-described hillbillies, and all that entails. And yeah, I wanted to sort of describe my upbringing, just so that people could understand that many times people will say, Well, you just don’t understand what true Americans think or you don’t understand what true Tennesseans think. And I always sort of in my mind laugh at that because I’m like, you can’t out Tennessee me. You can be an American and a real Tennessean and hold the beliefs that I hold, you know, so that’s one of the reasons why I wanted to describe that upbringing. I love my family. They’re amazing. They’re fierce. And I think some of that ferocity has been passed on to me and I just I love my hillbilly family.   Julie Roys  06:32 And your part Cherokee Indian too?   NANCY FRENCH  06:35 Yeah, we have a lot of Indian blood. So my grandmother was I think was 1/4. And that was Cherokee. And then my grandfather also had a different type of Montana Indian in him, which is interesting. But yeah, it was all mixed together.   Julie Roys  06:52 So your dad broke from your family, moved to the foothills. Mayfield, Kentucky, which I know where that’s at. My dad actually lives near there now. But Mayfield, Kentucky, then eventually to Tennessee. Talk about the culture of the home that you grew up in, but also the town and sort of rural Tennessee and what that was like.   NANCY FRENCH  07:16 So Paris, Tennessee, has a 16-foot-tall Eiffel Tower,   Julie Roys  07:22 An Eiffel Tower.   NANCY FRENCH  07:25 There’s a huge battle between Paris, Texas and Paris, Tennessee over this Eiffel Tower business. But Paris, Tennessee is an amazing place. I grew up near the lake, Kentucky lake. We have a 60-foot Eiffel Tower. It’s just a great place to grow up very rural. We did not necessarily value education in the way that you would think a school might. For example, in seventh grade, I did not have science class, but instead they decided because none of us were going to go to college, to teach us about guns and so we had hunter safety classes and that culminated in skeet shooting contest. Which, I don’t like to brag, I don’t like to but sometimes you got to. I was the best shot in my seventh-grade class. Which is interesting and funny, but that’s how I grew up; just complete redneck hillbilly sort of existence and I loved it. Like I love Paris, Tennessee. I love Montego mountain and I love Mayfield, Kentucky.   Julie Roys  08:28 Well, it’s funny you say you lived in Paris, Kentucky. My parents for probably about 12 years lived in London, Kentucky, which you know, we didn’t know Kentucky at all. We grew up in Pennsylvania, but we thought it was kind of comical because it’s the least like London of any place I can think of in all of the United State.   NANCY FRENCH  08:47 There’s also Versailles.   Julie Roys  08:49 Versailles right. Not Versailles. But Versailles.   08:52 Yes. And there’s also a fence. Right. Yeah, it’s crazy. Love all these small towns.   Julie Roys  08:59 Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that your dad did differently than your growing up or his growing up, I mean, he came from sort of a superstitious, it sounded like background very sort of animated with maybe tribal kind of religion. But then he became a part of the Church of Christ, and describe what that church was like, I mean, seems from your description, very conservative, but also kind of leaning towards the legalistic side.   NANCY FRENCH  09:32 Yes, that is a very kind way of putting it, Julie. But I will say this, the church probably saved my dad. It’s like, saved his life saved his soul saved my, because he got off the mountain and he and my mother started going to church. They took us to church three times a week. It was just very wonderful and Norman Rockwell ish, you would think, but under the  facade of that sweet small town, Southern church experience, there was a lot of abuse happening at my church. So I was abused by, there was one guy who was like a predator. And he abused 15 people in my church. I didn’t know about the other 14, I only knew about me. I only now know this in the process of writing the book, I figured this out. But I grew up sort of feeling isolated spiritually. And it made me feel differently about God. Previously, church was a cushion, the warm blanket, a place to lay your head. And then all of that was ripped away from me because of that abuse. And I became isolated and smoked cigarettes and painted my fingernails black and skipped church, and it just set me on a bad path.   Julie Roys  10:43 And you were 12 years old when that happened? .   10:46 That’s right. And the preacher was 10 years older.   Julie Roys  10:51 I read your book soon after I read Krista Browns book who of course, was sexually abused in her church as a child. I was actually stunned by the similarities between your story and her story. But I think that the thing that really struck me was the way that both of you internalized it. She internalized it, she called it an affair. How can you have an affair with your youth pastor when you’re an underage teen. You, similarly, you kind of took the guilt and shame on yourself.   11:27 I did. And I think this is common. This is like sort of an embarrassing book to write because it’s so I don’t know, like, actually, I shouldn’t even say that. I’m saying words that are shame full. Like I’m saying this is embarrassing, but I didn’t do anything wrong, right?   Julie Roys  11:45 No, you didn’t.   NANCY FRENCH  11:46 That’s what you think. And in the church with the purity culture sometimes, very well meaning poorly conceived theology. Which is, if you have a sexual sin, which by the way, you don’t, if you’re being abused, that’s not a sin, you’re not the one sinning. But if you’ve been compromised sexually, you’re ruined for the rest of your life. And I internalized that, and I thought that was right. And I also thought that this pastor, preacher, Vacation Bible School person, I thought he loved me, because I was 12. I didn’t know, I didn’t know anything about this. I just didn’t perceive it correctly. So I told myself the wrong story about this abuse almost my whole life. And so this book, though, there’s a lot more to it than just the abuse, obviously. This is me correcting the record for myself. But I wanted to do it publicly for all the people out there who feel guilty over stuff that they shouldn’t feel guilty over. And also, I became a complete mess after my abuse, and I wanted to show people that. Because what happens is you get embarrassed because you make a series of bad decisions and you look unsophisticated, you look immoral, you look like trash. And people will, they’ll look at you and they’ll say, that’s just trash, why are you listening to her? When in actuality, they should look at the damage that has been done to people in the church and repent about the way they’ve been handling abuse. And so I sort of wanted to put myself out there and say, Okay, y’all esteem me now, when I’m almost 50, because I’ve gotten my life together to the degree that I have, which I haven’t, but people esteem me. They don’t know about any of this. So I wanted to say, Okay, this is what it looks like, this is what I looked like. And I looked ridiculous. I was flailing, I was terrible in a lot of ways. You know, let’s talk about it.   Julie Roys  13:45 I think that’s so helpful. Because especially now when we have as public figures, you have a curated image, and it’s often so different than the real image, right? Although I really appreciate it, you have been so real, I think, especially as you’ve been walking through your cancer, the treatments and everything. I’ve so appreciated that. I appreciate that today, you forgot your wig. And so you’re just wearing whatever, and a lot of people would be like, Oh, I can’t go on. But I love that because that’s where all of us are. We like to pretend we’re not. But that’s where all of us are, at least at different points in our life. And so I just, I appreciate that. And I’m sure there’s a lot of people listening, who appreciate that as well. It didn’t end with the violence and the abuse didn’t end with that Pastor whose name was Conrad as I recall, but you had a boyfriend then, Jacob, who unbelievable. I mean, who this man turned out to be and you were trying to break it off from him forever. That did remind me of boyfriends I’ve tried to break it off with and you couldn’t. But talk about what happened with Jacob  and how that impacted you.   NANCY FRENCH  15:03 So I tried to find solace outside the church, meaning in boyfriends, and I made a series of terrible mistakes. And I dated this one guy, who eventually, I actually, Julie, double crossed him. I was cheating on him to let the record show that I was not innocent in this. But it was like I could not break up with him, I didn’t have the backbone to break up with him. And every time I tried, he threatened to commit suicide. And I realize now how terrible that is. I didn’t know it at the time. But in one very terrible moment, he revealed that he knew I had been cheating on him, and he tried to kill me. And so that was a pretty dramatic moment, he tried to strangle me, and it was bad. And boy number two, the guy that I was dating, actually came and rescued me from the situation at the very last second, very wonderful. So that boyfriend number two realized that I was cheating on him. And that I was in duress in the same moment. And he immediately pivoted to try to help me, and he did. I’m very thankful for that. But all of that was the pre-David French romance, which you can imagine when I met David French, who is so levelheaded and calm and good and mora., I wanted that. And that’s what I got. So David French sort of helped put me back on track. And, yeah, I’ll be forever grateful to him over that.   Julie Roys  16:35 Yeah, I was really struck by how big of a difference he made in your life. I mean, at this point,  you’re a victim of two assaults. You’re just absolutely reeling. You’re going to Lipscomb University, which is a Church of Christ school. Although I thought it was interesting that you could not even go to chapel. You knew, if you didn’t go to chapel, you’re going to lose your scholarship. But you call it the positive theology that you couldn’t stomach at that point. I think this is actually good for Christians to hear. Because it’s still there in a lot of churches where it’s very, well just describe what that was, and how that struck you as somebody who’s been through the kind of abuse that you have been through.   NANCY FRENCH  17:30 Yeah, I just had experienced so much. And then my best friend died. And in the same time period, and I was full of grief, though, I wasn’t even really properly processing. I wasn’t grieving the way you’re supposed to grieve. But I knew when I go into chapel, I was actually seeking answers, like, what do you do when you’re completely decimated by life? And the chapel speakers would be like, Hey, guys, we should be humble. Let me tell you about my little league game where I was pitching, and this happened. And I was just like, what is happening? This is so vacuous. I could not listen to this one more syllable. This is going to kill me. It felt like they were trying to kill me. And the reason why is because they didn’t have a doctrine of suffering. Right? Like I was really suffering. Not to mention the fact now that I realized that the Church of Christ leaders knew that I was being abused by this preacher and didn’t do anything. That’s a whole different level of stuff. The people at Lipscomb weren’t guilty of any of that. They were just nice people. And Lipscomb is really amazing. Like David works there. Now, David has always had a great experience there. But my experience there was I could not get down with this theology that I thought was vacuous. And it did not help. I needed help, like I need to help. I was suicidal, or something close to suicidal. So I needed help. And so those chapel talks were not going to cut it. And so I got called into the Dean of Students called me in and he was like, if you don’t go back to chapel, you’re losing everything. And I was like, I’ve lost everything. I don’t care. I never went back. But there’s something about this toxic positivity that I noticed with cancer, and here’s why. So whenever people find out that you have cancer immediately, they want to pray for your healing and for the cure. You have people at McDonald's stop and pray for your healing, which is very kind and sweet. But when I first got my diagnosis, my son, who’s a philosophy major, said there’s going to be beauty in this. Like, you have to keep your eyes open to see the beauty in this. And there’s, I have like, that was such an interesting, salient thing to say, because there’s so much to learn through disease and disability. Like looking like this. Like, I have no makeup on. I have no hair. In 1 million years would not have taken a picture and posted it to Facebook, let alone been on an interview with you a year ago looking like this. And I am so happy because I feel like, I don’t know, Julie, have maybe this is just me. I’m completely insecure. But I’m insecure my whole life. I’m almost 50 I’m insecure over the way I look. I’m insecure over cellulite, I’m over insecure over my weight, I’m insecure over my teeth that are equine looking. Like whatever you know. But what I’ll do as a ghostwriter, I’ll move in and help people write books about confidence. And so I was talking to my friend, Kim Gravelle, who has her own makeup line and fashion line on QVC. She’s a queen, amazing businesswoman. And we wrote a book called, Collecting Confidence, and I was talking to her, and she was like, you’re so confident I love seeing you. And I was like I faked all that. I completely faked all that. I can’t even imagine people who are confident, like I don’t even get that. But the cancer thing. Oh my gosh, it’s like it removed the vanity or something. And I don’t want to say vanity like it’s negative because we all you know, care what we look like, and it’s important. But I am not going to criticize my body again. I’m so thankful for it. And thankful for the way I look. I’m thankful for being bald because it allows me to connect with people in the most beautiful ways. Women who have cancer will send me pictures of their bald heads and they’re afraid to do it publicly. Some of them don’t even let their husbands see their bald heads. And so what I’m trying to do is normalize this, like this is okay, it’s okay to look like this. I probably won’t look like this forever. But it’s okay to look like this. And so when I’m doing my normal life, that’s not book promotion, typically, I just go bald. And people come up to me and they’re like, is this a fashion choice? Is this you know, like, what’s going on? Because I also tattooed my eyebrows on, because I’m not completely free of vanity. But anyway, it just opens up so much conversation and so whenever you’re faced with lament and grief and loss and abuse and death and disease and disability, you better have a doctrine of suffering. And you have to know how your faith intersects with that. And the good news is it intersects in a very beautiful way. With Christianity, we get back what we lose. It’s a beautiful thing. And I just love the fact that there’s so much truth and beauty even when we look like this. There’s still truth and beauty that we can tap into that is so much greater than my tattooed eyebrows, although on fleek.   Julie Roys  23:05 Well, I think you look beautiful, even with a bald head. But I love that. I absolutely love that. And I love that sometimes when we go through, I was telling somebody this recently that sometimes when we go through really horrific things, the things that used to scare us, the things that used to be so daunting, now we’re like, now that I’ve gone through this, like, go ahead, make my day. I’m not afraid anymore. And I do think it’s a wonderful like, I’ve never been through cancer, so I don’t want to even pretend that I know what that’s like. But yeah, I do hear what you’re saying and suffering for believers is redemptive; it’s always redemptive in some way. And I think you’re right that we don’t talk about it nearly enough in the church. I want to get back to David, because again, he made this huge, huge difference in your life. And I just thought it was so beautiful how you wrote about him. But he really, I mean, here you are an absolute wreck. And I love how when you met him like you confronted him, because he’s the one who convinced you to go to Lipscomb. And you’re like, thanks a lot, you know, and you kind of laid into him. And yet he responded in such a gracious way and within. I mean, I don’t know if it was a few hours or days like he had led you to the Lord.   NANCY FRENCH  24:27 Yeah, we had a very truncated experience dating, romantically and spiritually. He was sick. He had an incurable disease, which is a totally different story. So he was sick. We started dating, the second date, I realized I could marry this person. And then I think we were engaged within three months. I didn’t know him. He was like a complete stranger. But during that very brief amount of time he told me about Jesus. He was like he was telling me about the Holy Spirit because David French, New York Times columnist, was cured of an incurable disease,  Okay? And that was in 95. And I got to see that happen. He weighed 100 pounds when we were dating, he was so sick. And maybe 120 I don’t know; he lost a ton of weight. But I got to see this miracle happen. And I didn’t believe in miracles. I didn’t believe in any of it. So he was telling me about that. And I was like, wow, I think I might need to know about whatever it is that you know about. And so he used CS Lewis to talk me through the Lord, lunatic or liar, those three options. And for those listening, CS Lewis was basically like, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. Was he telling the truth? Was he insane? Or was he just lying? And I could not bring myself to say that Jesus Christ was lying. I just couldn’t. And so the only thing and I didn’t think he was a lunatic. So I was like, you know, I think Jesus was telling the truth. And that small thing changed my life, because I believed and David helped me believe, and it was very beautiful. So I write about that in the book.   Julie Roys  26:11 Yeah. Lord, liar, lunatic. It’s a powerful argument. So simple, but so powerful. And yet a lot of people just have never, they’ve never thought deeply about it. And then you guys got married, in Paris, which is great. I won’t go into it because we don’t have time. But that was a great, great story. You moved to Manhattan. And then you, this hit me in a probably a different way than it would normally because I kind of lean charismatic. So I’m open to charismatic things, even though I would say, I grew up, my dad was a surgeon. So we were always, if you thought you were sick, it was kind of like, prove it. It was everything a little bit skeptical. And, as a journalist, we tend to be pretty skeptical too. But I read this about your encounter with a prophet. It was I guess; it was like a reunion of the Harvard Christian group that David had been a part of. And well, you were skeptical too. So tell about that experience, because it really is pretty mind blowing.   NANCY FRENCH  27:23 Craziest story. I became a Christian. I have one inch of theological belief, which is I believe Jesus Christ is Lord, all in You. And the Harvard Law School Christian fellowship was having a reunion. And we went, and by the way, I don’t want to go hang out with a bunch of people who graduated from Harvard, right? Because, a three-time college dropout. I don’t want to hang out with these people. I’m intimidated. Everybody is so smart. And also, when you grow up in the way that I grew up, you’re taught that people who believe in the Holy Spirit and Pentecostals or charismatics are low class, they’re unsophisticated, they’re not smart. They’re given to emotion. So here I am going into the Harvard Law School Christian Fellowship. So they’re smarter than I am. They get paid a lot of money to evaluate documents, and the Bible is a document. And David was like, Yeah, I think they invited a prophet, and I was like, What is a prophet? Is this like a psychic? Like I don’t have a category for this. And so we go to the thing, and I was apprehensive because, Julie, I don’t know if this is a sign of a guilty conscience. 100% It is. But if you talk to a prophet, I was thinking that he would say, Well, you don’t read your Bible. You don’t pray, your main to whatever, you know, like whatever you kick the dog, whatever, like he could read my mail. So I didn’t want to talk to a prophet either. So anyway, we go to the thing. Gary has on a Hawaiian shirt. He’s smelly, he has a hairy belly, and I can see the bottom of it. It’s insane. I’m like, okay, so this is Gary the Prophet. Okay, whatever. So Gary the Prophet, y’all gotta read this, it’s the craziest thing that ever happened. But he goes to the people at the Harvard Law School Christian Fellowship, and I thought he would say to Harvard Law people, Oh, you struggle with pride? Or oh, I don’t know, you’ve got so much intelligence. I don’t know what you’d say to Harvard people. I’m not a Harvard person, as you can tell. But that’s not what he did. He went around the room and read to like, spoke into their lives. So for example, I don’t know if you know Shaunti Feldheim. She’s a Christian. Shaunti was there, and her husband Jack, and I use their names in the book. And later I was like, Hey, I used your name in the book with this crazy thing because they were there and they had this crappy car that Shaunti and Jeff, like, they were the only people in New York City who had the car of our friend group. So they were very nice to let us use the car, but it was a freaking jalopy, and they were always in fights over it. And so, but Gary looked at Jeff and Shaunti and spoke to them about this car. And I was like, what? So you got a chance to talk to a prophet. He’s giving you automobile advice, that’s weird. And then he went to other people, and he talked to another friend who secretly had written poetry and he said, “You know the poetry right secretly? It’s time to do this was like literary advice. I was like, what is happening, Gary the Prophet? So then Gary the prophet looked at me, and he was like you, and I was like, Oh, my gosh, this is gonna be so bad. And he called me up. And he told me, he said, you’re pregnant. And I was like, No, I’m not. Julie, this is TMI, but this is what’s happening. I was on my period, and I told him that, and he looked at me, I said, it is impossible, because I wanted everyone in this Harvard Law School Christian fellowship to realize they’ve been duped by a con man. And so I was like, defiant, like, No, I’m on my period. I’m not pregnant. And he just laughed at me. And he was like, with God, all things are possible. But this is what you need to know, you are pregnant, you are carrying a girl, she’s going to come this year, she’s going to have physical problems, here is five Bible verses that you need to know. When they tell you that you’re aborting, don’t believe it, you’re gonna have a healthy baby. And all is gonna be well just remember these words. And I was like, okay, Gary, the Prophet. This is weird because I wasn’t pregnant, right? But he scared me to death. So I go home, and my period stops. And I think, you know, this is weird. I think he’s scared me into not having a period. Gary the prophet is the worst prophet ever. And then later, though, like I took a pregnancy test, and I was pregnant. Apparently, the bleeding that I thought was my period was implantation. And Gary the prophet knew this. And lo and behold, a few months later, the doctor calls and he says, “You are miscarrying. You’re aborting call off the parties. But they gave me a due date in January. I knew that wasn’t the case, because he said that she was going to come this year, and I also knew the gender. So talking about gender reveal party, Gary the Prophet, you did not need that. And Camille was born. And she’s amazing. And right now this second, she’s 13 floors up. She’s got two of my grandchildren, that she’s given birth to; cute, wonderful, beautiful kids. And we’ve seen God’s hand in Camille’s life and all of our lives in such dramatic ways. And that cured me of being skeptical of the Holy Spirit. My book is called Ghosted, not just because I’m a celebrity ghostwriter, or because vast friend groups have ghosted me for my political decisions. But also I wanted it to encourage people to really consider the Holy Ghost, to consider God, because He will not let you down even though everyone else will.   Julie Roys  33:03 I never said why I’m a little more skeptical than I used to be. And it’s because of what’s happening at the International House of Prayer. Just, and of course, I mean, this is the umpteenth. I don’t know how many scandals I’ve covered since I’ve started The Roys Report. I mean, it’s just been one after another after another. But this particular one, I think is especially gross, because prophecy was used to manipulate and then abuse women. And then we have this prophetic history that now some of the key facts in it have been debunked. And it just seems like it was used in such a manipulative way. And so I’m trying to figure out why God? Like why do you even like, is that real? Like when people get because I remember, I used to be in the Vineyard, and I remember hearing stories, and I remember miraculous things happening. And then you go to a church where they don’t expect that to happen, and guess what? It doesn’t, you know, kind of like the Holy Spirit doesn’t work in ways that our faith doesn’t allow it to, sometimes, but it was good for me to hear it.   NANCY FRENCH  34:17 I think that’s a very interesting point. And it’s important to say it, because the charismatic church has really, really messed up with this Donald Trump prophecy stuff.   Julie Roys  34:29 Oh, my goodness, yeah.   NANCY FRENCH  34:31 They’ve gone off the rails. And so what do you do like if you’re a Christian person, and this is not just for charismatic people or Pentecostal people, but all white evangelicals who are going to church where the egregious evil is overlooked because of political positions? What do you do? And so that’s the thing I don’t I don’t even go to a Pentecostal church. I just really believe that there’s a lot of counterfeit stuff happening, with all these prophecies, political prophecies. But if it’s counterfeit, that indicates there’s something true. Right? So it’s a mimicry of something good. And so I would just encourage, I don’t know how to do it. I’m not doing church right. I’m completely a mess; I’m hanging on to Christianity by my freaking fingernails. And ever since I got the cancer diagnosis, I can’t really go to church, I’ve gone like twice in seven months. However, I feel so warmly towards God. And I feel like he’s got me. In spite of all of this, I just feel so thankful to God. And I don’t understand God. So when I wrote this book, one of my intentions was to never be invited by a church to come speak on the book at a church. And I think I probably pulled that off, the invitations are not rolling in Julie. And that’s because I don’t understand God. So I’m just telling you the truth. This is what happened to me, there was a guy named Gary, and he had a hairy belly, and a Hawaiian shirt. And he was completely right about the trajectory of my life. And we recorded it because he said, If I’m a false prophet, you’ll be able to say that I’m a false prophet. I’m recording everything I say to you. And there’s some things that haven’t happened yet that I 100% know are going to happen in our lives. Then David and I joke about it all the time because it’s just so crazy. But it feels crazy. But it happened, and I’ve got a kid upstairs, who is alive. And so many things like that happen. And sometimes things happen that you don’t get that aren’t as uplifting, that God acts in ways that are baffling and confusing. And I included those stories too. Because I just wanted the reader to be able to say, Okay, this is what my life looks like, because I wrangle with God and wrestle with God. What does yours look like? Is it as nuts as this? And I just think it is, I think we’re just too sophisticated to talk about it. But I think people have interactions with God all the time. And I want to normalize talking about that.   Julie Roys  37:10 And when I was in Vineyard, their tagline used to be to make the supernatural natural. And I did love tha.t I loved lots of things about my Vineyard experience. I know they’re going through some really, very difficult times right now. But yeah, it was very positive for me in many ways. And I appreciate that. And I appreciate just the fact that I read Scripture differently now, whereas I used to skip over oh my gosh, they raised the dead. You know, like that was normal for the disciples like what does that mean to us today? But it’s challenging.   NANCY FRENCH  37:42 Yeah. Or what does it mean when Paul says just eagerly seek these gifts of the Holy Spirit? Do it just do it, just believe the Bible and do it. And one of the things is church is so nuts right now. It makes you feel like you don’t have a spiritual home. Like, actually, like, I do not have a spiritual home, I’ve been projectile vomited out of like the church.   Julie Roys  38:05 I can relate to this. So yeah.   NANCY FRENCH  38:08 if you can just like divorce yourself from the people who are angry at you for whatever reasons, and just sort of settle into your relationship with God. I don’t think we should forsake the church or the gathering of our friends and saints and all that. I don’t know how to do it. It is a very difficult time. And so I wrote this book for other people who feel politically, culturally, or spiritually homeless. And I’m just sort of like reaching out my hand and saying, Hey, do y’all, this is weird, what’s going on? Do y’all feel weird about this? Anyway, we can be weird together, we can be alone together. And that’s what I hoped the book sort of encapsulated.   Julie Roys  38:47 I loved your story of how you became a ghost writer, which is kind of amazing. You’re a college dropout. And all of a sudden you’re writing for all these stars. A lot of people don’t know that you’re writing the book because you’re a ghost. But you end up writing and I didn’t realize you wrote this book Bristol Palin’s book when she got pregnant. For people, you know, who aren’t familiar with this, although most of us I would guess, that are listening. Or it wasn’t that long ago. Sarah Palin became the vice-presidential candidate. And of course, she’s a conservative, Christian conservative, very traditional values, and then it comes out uh-oh, her daughter Bristol is pregnant out of wedlock. Although it wasn’t really what I think everybody probably assumed at the time. Talk about that experience of writing that book with Bristol, but also of the reception that book got when you published it.   NANCY FRENCH  39:44 Yeah, so I grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh and knowing without a shadow of a doubt that Democrats were sexual predators, or at least for pretty still with them. Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, give me a freaking break. So I was like, okay, So that’s the party. I do not want to have anything to do with. Democrats do not care about women. So I go to Alaska, I live with the Palins, I meet Bristol. Her story is told beautifully in her book. And I’ll let her tell her own story. But I was shocked when I got up there. Because what I thought was true was not true about the Palins. And I love Bristol Palin, she is courageous. She has a backbone, and she is a fighter for what is right. During that very tumultuous time when she got pregnant out of wedlock, she really rose to the occasion and she’s an amazing mother. And I love her so much. But what I learned when I got there, I said to her Bristol, we need to really talk about this baby shower that you had and she goes, I didn’t have a baby shower. And I was like, Yes, you did. I’ve got pictures. Look, your kid has this camouflage onesie. And she was like, Nancy, that is photoshopped. What is wrong with like, it’s so obviously photoshopped. I didn’t know because I was new to the world of lies and deception. But then when Bristol told me her story, how she lost her virginity. She goes, it wasn’t really lost. It was stolen. And I was like, oh, okay, what? I was completely floored by that because all of the media coverage was mocking her. And so when we published this in the book, I thought everybody would be like, my bad. I write for The Washington Post, or I write for the New York Times, or I write for this thing. And we mocked her for what essentially was a sex crime. She was a victim. And we’re sorry about that. That’s not what happened. People continue to mock her. They continue to make fun of her. And what that told me at the time was Democrats do not care about women, unless you’re a certain type of woman. Now, later, fast forward five freakin minutes, and here we are. The GOP standard bearer is someone who has been held criminally accountable for rape in court, much more so than Bill Clinton. And we’ve embraced this guy. So this is my trajectory. It has been one of confusion. I don’t feel like I’ve changed. I feel like you could believe that Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy were sexual predators or had sexual problems, obviously, without you can believe that and also look at people in your own tribe, can say the same things. You can walk and chew gum at the same time. You can just decide to be against sexual predation generally, across the board. It’s pretty easy if you make these decisions. But that’s not what we do. What we do is, oh, Harvey Weinstein. Yes. Well, that’s how Hollywood is, you know, Hollywood, they’re godless. Or the Catholics, for sure the Catholics have a problem. And then you find out oh, is the Baptist, oh it's the deacon Oh, it’s Kanakuk camps in Branson, Missouri. And it’s like, you don’t want to embrace that you’re just like, Nope. A part of my identity is that I’m a part of the good guys, I belong to the good tribe. And that was mine, too. I firmly believed that, that I was on the side of good, but then I wasn't, and I was guilty of mischaracterizing my liberal neighbor and trying to fight for my tribe over truth. And anyway, my book is sort of like unpacking that, it is not chastising the reader. It’s chastising myself because I got too much into the scoring of political points occupationally. And I realized that was not kind of me. God didn’t give me my writing talent for me to disparage my neighbor and to bear false witness. And so that’s what I was doing. And when I decided not to lie, or bear false witness, I was unemployable. I was as popular as head lice. So we used to be super popular in certain circles. And then, you know, nobody wants anything to do with us now.   Julie Roys  44:02 Yeah, yeah. It’s amazing. 2015 You guys were like the darlings of the GOP. I mean, David had gotten  awarded the Ronald Reagan award from CPAC, you know, the Conservative Political Action Conference. I mean, you guys were like, you were the quintessential Christian conservatives. And I think that’s when I was introduced to you. I was working at Moody at the time. And so I was doing a lot of commentaries and it’s amazing to me, I look back and I’m like, I had everything figured out then. Wow. It’s so funny, because I don’t now, but then I did. But I was very right. I was very conservative. And I could spout all of the political reasons why the Conservatives were right. And then all of a sudden, I couldn’t, I don’t think I changed. I don’t think I changed either. I was just absolutely shocked at who my Christian conservative neighbors were. Like, because I had supporters who were furious at me because I spoke out against Trump and stopped supporting me. And I’m like, Who did you think I was? Like, how can you support this man? I have not changed. I thought we were the party that cared about values. And they didn’t. Clearly we cared more about power, we cared more about position. But I have kind of thought, in my role as an investigative reporter in this space, where I call out Christians, and people often don’t want to hear, as you know, the scandals and what’s really going on. And so I thought, I got a lot of hate mail and pushback. Compared to what you and David have been through, I mean, that gave me like a whole new perspective, the personal nature of what was done to you. Especially regarding I know you have a daughter that you have adopted from Ethiopia. The amount of cruelty and this is where I’m like, that whole compassionate conservative thing. I was like, where are they? Talk about what happened to you when again, you simply stuck to your guns, and you spoke out, you spoke out what was true about Donald Trump. What happened?   NANCY FRENCH  46:28 So chaos. We’re big fans of Hamilton, and we are always like chaos and bloodshed. If you know that songs chaos and bloodshed are not the solution. But that’s what ensued. So I wrote a 2016 article in the Washington Post about my own sexual abuse and how I was begging the GOP to consider sexual abuse victims, because we were not about this. Imagine if you’re me, and you grow up believing Bill Clinton is rapist. The Democrats don’t care about women. The GOP is the party of family values. We care about children, all this stuff. Imagine if you’re that, and then they show up and they’re like, Hey, this is the guy that you can vote for. His name is Donald Trump, he grabs women by the genitals. It’s fine. Just, it’s great.   Julie Roys  47:17 Just locker room talk. Yeah.   47:19 And you’re just like, I don’t think I can do this. Is there a problem? So I wrote this article, I talked about my sex abuse for the first time. And I had not even told my counselor about my sexual abuse, I could not even articulate it. So it wasn’t like I had gotten to the point of spiritual maturity and emotional health, and I was finally deciding to make a case in the Washington Post. I had not even told my counselor; I could not even say it. But I went ahead and published this in the Washington Post, and it was a story of my abuse. And my counselor was like, Okay, I think we can work with this. But  this is potentially emotionally problematic, which it was, because I just laid my soul bare. I was like, guys, please. But then after I did that, there were some conservatives, prominent conservatives who were like, oh, Nancy French is just using her personal story to make a political point. And then later, when I would make any sort of statement about politics, these people would say things like, just because Nancy French seduced her pastor doesn’t mean that she should be able to speak about the Supreme Court or something like that.   Julie Roys  48:27 It’s infuriating. It’s infuriating, unbelievable.   NANCY FRENCH  48:30 I’ve never heard anything more evil than this; where you take the victim of pedophilia and say that they seduced a pastor. It’s so sinister. But these are people who y’all read, like, people read these writers, they’re associated with sort of legitimate magazines. I don’t know. I don’t read them. And they make fun of us. They make fun of our adopted daughter because she’s black. They say I had sex with men while my husband was deployed. And that’s how we got this baby. Not through adoption. And then for a time, they put fake-like photoshopped porn of me having sex with black men online and they would photoshop David’s face looking through the window at it, and they called him a cock-servative and obviously, he’s raising the enemy because we have a black child. So all black people are enemy. The evil that came at us with such a flood of evil. I could not even I still cannot even process it. That was all because we decided not to vote for Trump. So I mean, it’s like, I don’t wish it on my worst enemy.   Julie Roys  49:52 It’s unbelievable. It really is. And this is where, like you said, people continue to read some of these people. You call names in the book. You’re not doing it right now, that’s okay. But you can read the book. And you should.   NANCY FRENCH  50:03 Yeah, they’re so inconsequential to me. I was like, should I say their names or not? Because I don’t even like, I don’t even know what they look like. Like, I’m so not dialed in to whatever their thing is. So, you have this thing you’re like, should I elevate them by actually using their names? Or should I protect them? Because surely to goodness, in five minutes, they’re gonna realize they’re on the wrong side of this issue. You know, like, I feel bad for them. I don’t know what their deal is, or why they’re so obsessed with trying to attack victims of sex abuse. But it’s not like this is an anomaly. It’s not like the church otherwise really has it going on in terms of protecting children and women. So, anyway, yeah. So it’s hard to know what to do with these people. And I probably, I vacillated between wanting to name names and score settle. And I just decided not to do that generally, just because I think this story is important, the story is good in and of itself. And these people they’re not. They’re just tokens. They’re just indicative of the things that I wanted to talk about. And I wish them all the best. I hope all of us are progressing politically and spiritually and culturally, to the point where we get better. I feel like I’ve gotten better. And I know we all can, so I don’t even have animus toward them. But they really are on the wrong side of this.   Julie Roys  51:37 Yeah, absolutely. And I should say you name some names, but you do leave quite a few out. Although, if you put some things together, you can probably figure out who they are. But it is shocking what Christians are okay with and what I think this whole crazy political polarization has shown. And it’s been disorienting for a number of us Christians, I think, who are very surprised by it. For you, it cost you your job, your livelihood, essentially. I mean, you’re a ghostwriter, all of your clients were conservatives. We didn’t talk about it, but folks that you have to get the book and read the story about Mitt Romney and when you worked for Mitt Romney and the skiing story, I was laughing out loud. Oh, my gosh, I was laughing so hard.   NANCY FRENCH  52:33 I did include some anecdotes that do not reflect well on my virtue. There is a warning here.   Julie Roys  52:38 Oh that one! Yeah. Again, I’m just gonna tease that one. Because people have to read the book to read that one. And it’s hysterical. But  here you are. You’re basically an unemployed ghostwriter. And Gretchen Carlson comes to you and  tells you about an investigation you can do. It takes you like better part of a year, and you get paid like a big goose egg for it, like nothing. Which I have to, it reminds me of when I got fired at Moody, because that’s when I started investigating Harvest Bible Chapel and James McDonald. And I think that year, I did get paid for that article. But that’s like, the only thing that I wrote for any other publication because I wrote it for World Magazine. But I think I came out ahead when I did, the income minus like, expenses. I made $300 that year. I know. It was fantastic. But  it was that kind of years, I could really relate to all of a sudden, you get this story just dropped on your lap, you tried to get other people to write it, and nobody did. And so you’re faced with this responsibility. And I know this all too well, where you know, a story. You know, I went to journalism school, you didn’t even go to journalism school. You’re a very good writer, an excellent writer. And I think you have obviously excellent investigation skills. And although you had to develop some of I mean, you just went out and you just began investigating this. And you get yourself in so deep that you realize, oh, my goodness, I gotta publish this, right? I’ve got to do something. So talk about it. This was Kanakuk camp, the largest Christian camp, and you find out there is widespread, like over decades, sexual abuse going on. It’s known, and yet, nobody has been held responsible, other than the actual abuser.   NANCY FRENCH  53:34 That’s a lot! Yeah. And you’re being very kind in your description of this. So like, literally, I tried to get everybody to cover this. And I don’t even have a degree period, let alone a journalism degree. And when I realized that I had to be the one to do this because I’m almost 50 years old and I’m a grown person who knows about the abuse. When I realized that and this is after losing my job and being fired, either being fired by or quitting all of my gigs and no money.   Julie Roys  55:13 That’s how we become investigative journalists. We get fired and nothing else you can do.   NANCY FRENCH  55:18 Nothing else you can do. I Googled, what does off the record mean? I didn’t know that there were layers of that, you know this, you’re laughing. It’s so crazy. There’s like no background, anyway. So I googled that. That’s how I started my investigation. It was three years of just angst and agony. And I didn’t have anyone to help because I’m just myself. I really needed a team of like five people or something. But I worked around the clock for three years, and I proved everything that I wanted to prove basically. I only published like 3% of what I know. But yeah, there was a bad guy at Kanakuk camps. He was there. His name is Pete Newman, he abused an estimated hundreds of male campers, several of whom have died via suicide. We still get tips over these deaths. So anyway, awful. But the thing that I uncovered was that Kanakuk camps and its CEO Joe White, they received 10 years of Red Flag Warnings. So they knew for 10 years that this bad guy was convincing campers to disrobe and to be completely nude. He played basketball nude with them; he was on four wheelers nude with them. Which by the way, absolutely disgusting. Just that fact visualizing that they knew that. They knew that parents complained, one camper saw Pete Newman abusing another camper. And they told the Female Camper who was the witness that they didn’t think she was Christian enough to go to the camp. So Pete Newman is in jail. But all of the people who allowed this abuse to happen, they’re still running the camp to this day, nobody’s resigned, nobody’s been fired. The same people. And there’s 25,000 kids who go there per summer. So that’s why I’m so alarmed by it. If you Google Kanakuk, almost everything written about it is me, regrettably. It's  out there, and you can read about it. So I would encourage people and parents just to become aware of that. The reason I’m so sad and despondent over the issue is that I proved everything and the church, their reaction was laconic, is that the right word? I don’t even know what that means. They were not as alarmed as I thought they should be.   Julie Roys  57:38 Apathetic for sure. I mean, they just didn’t care. It’s callous. I mean, I have had investigations that turned out great. Like James McDonald, Harvest Bible Chapel. He got fired, all the elders stepped down. The Ravi Zacharias investigation, I think, pretty much it’s well established. But most of Christendom now realizes he was a sexual predator. John MacArthur, I don’t know what more I could have proved. I really don’t. And it’s been shocking to me that conservative, you know, pundits like Megan Basham still to this day, you know, will defend John MacArthur and I’m like, have you read this? I mean, we have so much documentation. We have video evidence. I mean, we have handwritten letters from him telling the teenage girl whose father molested her that she should forgive him and that he’ll stay on staff, and we know he stayed on staff three more years and then went on to pastor for decades more. And John MacArthur did nothing. It drives you absolutely insane. And you think what on earth is the matter with people? Like what is wrong with you? Nothing has been done to John MacArthur. Nothing has been done to Joe White. Christians continue to just send their kids to a camp where clearly they’re not being protected. How do you come to terms with this, Nancy?   NANCY FRENCH  59:01 I don’t. I’m so depressed. I’ve been in a bad mood for many years. To be completely honest, I don’t know how to resolve it. I’m so depressed over it. And then the Kanakuk investigation dropped like a few days after the SBC was revealed to have all these sexual predators in a database conveniently tracking all the sexual predators and keeping them from the cops. I have no answers and I have decided that I cannot be responsible for the church and their collective inaction on this. That I am not responsible. I cannot exact justice. I just can’t. I am standing on the side of the road with this giant sign over my head saying, justice is coming. Justice is important. One day this will be better. It is not today. But I’ve just decided I’m just going to talk about it. People make fun of me because I’m a one-note song. If you follow me on Twitter or on any of the social media channels, I’m like, Hey, guys, today in Kanakuk saga number 550 million, I’m talking about this, because I have so much information. I published, like 3% of what I know. And so I just want to warn parents and I have, and so I feel comfortable with that. I will not stop talking about it. Lawsuits have been filed based on my investigative work, what I was able to uncover, and I trust lawyers more than I trust the actions of the church in terms of holding people accountable, which, you know, is sad. But I am thankful for attorneys and for brave victims and survivors speaking out. So I’m very thankful. But it took me a long time to get to that point and, I’m not okay with it. I’m sad and depressed. I’m sad about the Christian celebrities who are associated with Kanakuk camps, who won’t speak out. I’m sad about the parents who send their kids to Kanakuk camps. And I’m sad just for all the grieving families who’ve lost family members because of this abuse, it’s awful. And I’m so inspired by the families who choose to say that their loved one who died via suicide,  was a victim at Kanakuk camps. A brave family in Texas did that first and that started all of it.   Julie Roys  1:01:26 Well, you’ve done a Herculean task by digging into that, and if you want a place to publish, you know, the other 97%. If you get well enough, we would love to publish it. I know we published. I mean, based on your research, really, we’ve sort of rewritten some of this stuff, but it’s really well done, really well documented, and you’ve done a service for the church. And you’ve warned people. I figure that’s all we can do, is we can warn people, and then what people do with it, at the end of the day, we have to you’re right, we have to let that go. Because that’s in God’s hands. And we did our job. We warned them, we told them the truth, but it is frustrating. You said, There’s a quote that I just want to read of yours. It’s so good. And I so related to it. You said throughout my life, I desperately wanted to identify the good people and the bad people. So I could walk more confidently among them. Befriending the good ones avoiding the bad ones. I categorized people into tribes, according to their political views, their church attendance, and their voting patterns. But this line was fuzzier than I’d originally believed. I feel that the people we thought were the good guys aren’t necessarily the good guys. I still hold on to my faith, I still have the same convictions. I hold them differently now. I hold them differently. And I think there’s an openness to people that I wouldn’t necessarily be open to before. But talk about where you’re at now with kind of maybe seeing a little more gray than you did before or good, where you made might have seen bad and how you’re processing that?   NANCY FRENCH  1:03:22 Well, I mean, probably the most interesting and honest answer is I realized how that the line separating good and evil runs through my own heart, as Alexander Solzhenitsyn said. And I was guilty of a bunch of stuff. I was politically acrimonious; I was mean to my Democrat neighbors. Mean meaning in my rhetoric. Like I help people own the LIBS or whatever. But I think there’s something very beautiful about aging, I’m almost 50. I do not care about my brand management. For all of you listening, I am not one of the good guys on the good side of the line, and I do all this stuff right. I do some things right. Probably hold a lot of beliefs that I won’t hold in 10 years, hopefully, because you know, you change and you get better and you want to allow space for you to get better, for your party to get better, for your church to get better. I think it’s interesting how you say you hold your beliefs differently. I am just so thankful for being able to not protect your brand. To the church. You’re not God’s PR branch. He doesn’t need you. He doesn’t need you in terms of his marketing. You can embrace the truth of whatever is uncomfortable, and you can talk about it without damaging the gospel, without damaging the church. In fact, you’re protecting the church when you’re calling out evil, you’re protecting children. When you’re calling out evil, you’re protecting women when you’re calling out evil, you’re protecting men. And so you don’t have to say like, oh, well, I’m a Christian, so therefore, I cannot criticize anything that is happening in the church. In fact, that’s biblically the opposite of what we are actually commanded to do. And so I have been guilty of being politically acrimonious and uncharitable towards my neighbor, not protecting the reputations of my neighbor. And I changed. And so I fully believe all of us can change. But that’s not to say that I’m the arbiter of all that is good. And now these people are bad, but it’s just all mixed up. And I feel like we have such capacity for both good and evil. And there’s part of you that is sort of like sobered by that. And then part of me is like, liberated. It’s like, okay, well, that explains a lot. That’s why I’m so petty. That’s why I yell at the kids when I don’t mean to, that’s when I get frus

Welcome to the Season four kick-off! Today, we have our first interview with one of the authors from our anthology on Christianity and American politics, the incredible Dr. Randy Woodley. The episode includes:-        How dualism defines White worldviews, and how it negatively affects White Christians-        How love and vulnerability are central to a life with Jesus-        Why our voting decisions matter to marginalized people-        And after the interview in our new segment, hear Jonathan and Sy talk about the attack on teaching Black history in schools, and the greater responsibility White people need to take for their feelings about historical factsResources Mentioned in the Episode-            Dr. Woodley's essay in our anthology: “The Fullness Thereof.”-            Dr. Woodley's book he wrote with his wife, now available for pre-order: Journey to Eloheh: How Indigenous Values Led Us to Harmony and Well-Being-            Dr. Woodley's recent children's books, the Harmony Tree Trilogy-            Our highlight from Which Tab Is Still Open?: The podcast conversation with Nikole Hannah-Jones and Jelani Cobb-            The book A Race Is a Nice Thing to Have: A Guide to Being a White Person or Understanding the White Persons in Your LifeCredits-        Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our newsletter and bonus episodes at KTFPress.com.-        Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.-        Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.-        Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.-        Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.-        Production by Sy Hoekstra.-        Transcript by Joyce Ambale and Sy HoekstraTranscript[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending – F#, B#, E, D#, B – with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Randy Woodley: So the Europeans were so set in this dualistic mindset that they began to kill each other over what they consider to be correct doctrine. So we had the religious wars all throughout Europe, and then they brought them to the United States. And here we fought by denomination, so we're just like, “Well I'm going to start another denomination. And I'm going to start another one from that, because I disagree with you about who gets baptized in what ways and at what time,” and all of those kinds of things. So doctrine then, what we think about, and theology, becomes completely disembodied to the point now where the church is just looked at mostly with disdain.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus, confronting injustice. My name is Jonathan Walton.Sy Hoekstra: And I am Sy Hoekstra, we are so excited to be starting our interviews with our writers from our Anthology in 2020 that we published when we [resigned voice] had the same election that we're having this year [Jonathan laughs]. So it's still relevant at least, and we're really excited to bring you Dr. Randy Woodley today. Jonathan, why don't you tell everyone a bit about Dr. Woodley?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. So Dr. Woodley is a distinguished professor emeritus of faith and culture at George Fox Seminary in Portland, Oregon. His PhD is in intercultural studies. He's an activist, a farmer, a scholar, and active in ongoing conversations and concerns about racism, diversity, eco-justice, reconciliation ecumen… that's a good word.Sy Hoekstra: Ecumenism [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Ecumenism, interfaith dialogue, mission, social justice and indigenous peoples. He's a Cherokee Indian descendant recognized by the Keetoowah Band. He is also a former pastor and a founding board member of the North American Institute for Indigenous Theological Studies, or NAIITS, as we call it. Dr. Woodley and his wife Edith are co-founders and co-sustainers of Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice situated on farmland in Oregon. Their Center focuses on developing, implementing and teaching sustainable and regenerative earth practices. Together, they have written a book called Journey to Eloheh: How Indigenous Values Led Us to Harmony and Well-Being, which will come out in October. It's available for preorder now, you should definitely check it out. Dr. Woodley also released children's books called Harmony Tree.In our conversation, we talk about what he thinks is the key reason Western Christians have such a hard time following Jesus well, the centrality of love in everything we do as followers of Jesus, the importance of this year's elections to marginalize people, and Dr. Woodley's new books, and just a lot more.Sy Hoekstra: His essay in our book was originally published in Sojourners. It was one of the very few not original essays we had in the book, but it's called “The Fullness Thereof,” and that will be available in the show notes. I'll link to that along with a link to all the books that Jonathan just said and everything else. We're also going to be doing a new segment that we introduced in our bonus episodes, if you were listening to those, called Which Tab Is Still Open?, where we do a little bit of a deeper dive into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. So this week, it will be on The Attack on Black History in schools, a conversation with Jelani Cobb and Nikole Hannah-Jones. It was a really great thing to listen to. That'll be in the show notes to hear our thoughts on it after the interview.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely. And friends, we need your help. We're going into a new phase of KTF, and as you know, this is a listener supported show. So everything we do at KTF to help people leave the idols of America and seek Jesus and confront injustice is only possible because you are supporting us. And in this next phase, we need a lot more supporters. So we've been doing this show, and all of our work in KTF as kind of a side project for a few years, but we want to make it more sustainable. So if you've ever thought about subscribing and you can afford it, please go to and sign up now. And if you can't afford it, all you got to do is email us and we'll give you a free discounted subscription. No questions asked, because we want everyone to have access to our content, bonus episode, and the subscriber community features.So if you can afford it, please do go to www.ktfpress.com, subscribe and make sure these conversations can continue, and more conversations like it can be multiplied. Thanks in advance. Oh, also, because of your support, our newsletter is free right now. So if you can't be a paid subscriber, go and sign up for the free mailing list at www.ktfpress.com and get our media recommendations every week in your inbox, along with things that are helping us stay grounded and hopeful as we engage with such difficult topics at the intersection of church and politics, plus all the news and everything going on with us at KTF. So, thank you so, so much for the subscribers we already have. Thanks in advance for those five-star reviews, they really do help us out, and we hope to see you on www.ktfpress.com as subscribers. Thanks.Sy Hoekstra: Let's get into the interview, I have to issue an apology. I made a rookie podcasting mistake and my audio sucks. Fortunately, I'm not talking that much in this interview [laughter]. Randy Woodley is talking most of the time, and his recording comes to you from his home recording studio. So that's nice. I'll sound bad, but most of the time he's talking and he sounds great [Jonathan laughs]. So let's get right into it. Here's the interview.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]What Dualism Is, and How It's Infected the White ChurchJonathan Walton: So, Dr. Woodley, welcome to Shake The Dust. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for contributing to our Anthology in the way that you contributed [laughs].Randy Woodley: I'm glad to be here. Thank you.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Your essay, I mean, was really, really great. We're going to dive deep into it. But you wrote in the essay, the primary difference in the lens through which Western and indigenous Christians see the world is dualism. And so if you were able to just define what is dualism, and why is it a crucial thing for Western Christians to understand about our faith, that'd be great to kick us off.Randy Woodley: Yeah, except for I think I want to draw the line differently than the question you just asked.Jonathan Walton: Okay.Randy Woodley: When we say indigenous Christians, by and large, Christians who are Native Americans have been assimilated into a Western worldview. It's a battle, and there's lots of gradient, there's a gradient scale, so there's lots of degrees of that. But by and large, because of the assimilation efforts of missionaries and churches and Christianity in general, our Native American Christians would probably veer more towards a Western worldview. But so I want to draw that line at traditional indigenous understandings as opposed to indigenous Christian understandings. Okay. So, yeah, Platonic Dualism is just a sort of… I guess to make it more personal, I started asking the question a long time ago, like what's wrong with White people [Sy laughs]? So that's a really valid question, a lot of people ask it, right? But then I kind of got a little more sophisticated, and I started saying, well, then what is whiteness? What does that mean? And then tracing down whiteness, and a number of deep studies and research, and trying to understand where does whiteness really come from, I really ended up about 3000 years ago with the Platonic Dualism, and Western civilization and the Western worldview. And so Plato of course was the great dualist, and he privileged the ethereal over the material world, and then he taught his student, Aristotle. So just to be clear for anybody who, I don't want to throw people off with language. So the thing itself is not the thing, is what Plato said, it's the idea of what the thing is. And so what he's doing is splitting reality. So we've got a holistic reality of everything physical, everything ethereal, et cetera. So Plato basically split that and said, we privilege and we are mostly about what we think about things, not what actually exists an our physical eyes see, or any senses understand. So that split reality… and then he taught Aristotle, and I'm going to make this the five-minute crash course, or two minutes maybe would be better for this [laughs]. Aristotle actually, once you create hierarchies in reality, then everything becomes hierarchical. So men become over women, White people become over Black people. Humans become over the rest of creation. So now we live in this hierarchical world that continues to be added to by these philosophers.Aristotle is the instructor, the tutor to a young man named Alexander, whose last name was The Great. And Alexander basically spreads this Platonic Dualism, this Greek thinking around the whole world, at that time that he could figure out was the world. It goes as far as North Africa and just all over the known world at that time. Eventually, Rome becomes the inheritor of this, and then we get the Greco-Roman worldview. The Romans try to improve upon it, but basically, they continue to be dualist. It gets passed on, the next great kingdom is Britain, Great Britain. And then of course America is the inheritor of that. So Great Britain produces these movements.In fact, between the 14th and 17th century, they have the Renaissance, which is a revival of all this Greek thinking, Roman, Greco-Roman worldview, architecture, art, poetry, et cetera. And so these become what we call now the classics, classic civilization. When we look at what's the highest form of civilization, we look back to, the Western worldview looks back to Greek and Greece and Rome and all of these, and still that's what's taught today to all the scholars. So, during this 14th to 17th century, there's a couple pretty big movements that happen in terms of the West. One, you have the enlightenment. The enlightenment doubles down on this dualism. You get people like René Descartes, who says, “I am a mind, but I just have a body.” You get Francis Bacon, who basically put human beings over nature. You get all of this sort of doubling down, and then you also have the birth of another, what I would call the second of the evil twins, and that is the Reformation. [exaggerated sarcastic gasp] I'll give the audience time to respond [laughter]. The Reformation also doubles down on this dualism, and it becomes a thing of what we think about theology, instead of what we do about theology. So I think I've said before, Jesus didn't give a damn about doctrine. So it became not what we actually do, but what we think. And so the Europeans were so set in this dualistic mindset that they began to kill each other over what they consider to be correct doctrine. So we had the religious wars all throughout Europe, and then they brought them to the United States. And here we fought by denomination, so just like, “Well, I'm going to start another denomination. And I'm going to start another one from that, because I disagree with you about who gets baptized in what ways, and at what time,” and all of those kinds of things.So doctrine then, what we think about, and theology becomes what we're thinking about. And it becomes completely disembodied, to the point now where the church is just looked at mostly with disdain, because it doesn't backup the premises that it projects. So it talks about Jesus and love and all of these things. And yet it's not a reflection of that, it's all about having the correct beliefs, and we think that's what following Jesus is. So when I'm talking about Platonic Dualism, I'm talking about something deeply embedded in our worldview. Not just a thought, not just a philosophy, but a whole worldview. It's what we see as reality. And so my goal is to convert everyone from a Western worldview, which is not sustainable, and it will not project us into the future in a good way, to a more indigenous worldview.Dr. Woodley's Influences, and How He's Influenced OthersSy Hoekstra: So let's talk about that effort then, because you have spent effectively decades trying to do just that.Randy Woodley: Exactly.Sy Hoekstra: Working with both indigenous and non-indigenous people. So tell us what some of the good fruit that you see as you disciple people out of this dualistic thinking?Randy Woodley: I feel like that question is supposed to be answered by the people I effected at my memorial service, but…Sy Hoekstra: [laughter] Well, you can answer for yourself.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I mean…Randy Woodley: Yeah, I mean, it's a bit braggadocious if I start naming names and all those kinds of things [Sy laughs]. I would just say that I've had influence in people's lives along with other influences. And now, I mean, first of all when I look back, I look and the most important thing to me is my children know I love them with all my heart and I did the best I could with them. And then secondly, the people who I taught became my friends. And the people I've mentored became my friends and I'm still in relationship with so many of them. That's extremely important to me. That's as important as anything else. And then now I look and I see there's people and they've got podcasts and they've got organizations and they've got denominations and they're... I guess overall, the best thing that I have done to help other people over the years is to help them to ask good questions in this decolonization effort and this indigenous effort. So yeah, I've done a little bit over the years.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] How about for yourself? Because I don't think, I think one of the reasons you started asking these questions was to figure things out for yourself. What fruit have you seen in your own “walk,” as evangelicals might put it?Randy Woodley: Well, I think as you get older, you get clarity. And you also realize that people who have influenced you, and I think about a lot of people in my life. Some I've met, some I've never met. Some you've probably never heard of. People like Winkie Pratney, and John Mohawk and John Trudell, and public intellectuals like that. And then there's the sort of my some of my professors that helped me along the way like Ron Sider and Tony Campolo, and Samuel Escobar and Manfred Brauch. And just a whole lot of people I can look back, Jean [inaudible], who took the time to build a relationship and helped me sort of even in my ignorance, get out of that. And I think one of the first times this happened was when I was doing my MDiv, and someone said to me, one of my professors said to me, “You need to see this through your indigenous eyes.” And I was challenged. It was like, “Oh! Well then, what eyes am I seeing this through?” And then I began to think about that. The thing about decolonizing, is that once you start pulling on that thread the whole thing comes unraveled. So yeah.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think like, just to speak a little bit to your impact, I think something you said to someone that was said to me, was like we're all indigenous to somewhere. And the importance of looking upstream to see how we're influenced to be able to walk into the identity that God has called us to. Including the people who led me to faith being like Ashley Byrd, Native Hawaiian, being able to call me out of a dualist way of thinking and into something more holistic, and now having multi-ethnic children myself being able to speak to them in an indigenous way that connects them to a land and a people has been really transformative for me.Randy Woodley: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. See? Right there.Love and Vulnerability are Central to Christian LifeJonathan Walton: [laughs] Yeah. And with that, you make a point of saying that you're somebody who works hard to speak difficult truths in a way that is loving and acceptable to everybody. I would say that's like Jesus, right? To be able to speak hard truths and yet people are curious and want to know more even though they're challenged. And so why, I could guess, and I'm sure people would fill in the blanks. But like if you had to say why that's important to you, what would you say?Randy Woodley: Well, I mean, love's the bottom line of everything. If I'm not loving the people I'm with, then I'm a hypocrite. I'm not living up to what I'm speaking about. So the bottom line to all of this shalom, understanding dualism, changing worldviews, is love. And so love means relationship. It means being vulnerable. I always say God is the most vulnerable being who exists. And if I'm going to be the human that the creator made me to be, then I have to be vulnerable. I have to risk and I have to trust and I have to have courage and love, and part of that is building relationships with people. So I think, yeah, if… in the old days, we sort of had a group of Native guys that hung around together, me and Richard Twiss, Terry LeBlanc, Ray Aldred, Adrian Jacobs. We all sort of had a role. Like, we called Richard our talking head. So he was the best communicator and funniest and he was out there doing speaking for all of us. And my role that was put on me was the angry Indian. So I was the one out there shouting it down and speaking truth to power and all that. And over the years, I realized that that's okay. I still do that. And I don't know that I made a conscious decision or if I just got older, but then people start coming up to me and saying things like, “Oh, you say some really hard things, but you say it with love.” And I'm like, “Oh, okay. Well, I'll take that.” So I just became this guy probably because of age, I don't know [laughs] and experience and seeing that people are worth taking the extra time to try and communicate in a way that doesn't necessarily ostracize them and make them feel rejected.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, that definitely makes sense. I think there's all these iterations of the last 50 years of people trying to say, “Hey, love across difference. Hey, love across difference.” And there's these iterations that come up. So I hope a lot of people get older faster to be able, you know [laughter].Randy Woodley: I think we're all getting older faster in this world we're in right now.Jonathan Walton: It's true. Go ahead Sy.The Importance of Voters' Choices to marginalized PeopleSy Hoekstra: Yeah. So we had another interview that we did, kind of about Middle East politics, as we're thinking about the election coming up. And one of the points we hit on that we've talked about before on this show is that to a lot of people in the Middle East or North Africa, whoever gets elected in the US, it doesn't necessarily make the biggest difference in the world. There's going to be drones firing missiles, there's going to be governments being manipulated by the US. America is going to do what America is going to do in the Middle East regardless. And I assume to a certain degree, tell me if I'm wrong, that that might be how a lot of indigenous people think about America. America is going to do what America is going to do regardless of who's in power, broadly speaking at least. What do you think about when you look at the choices in front of us this November? How do you feel about it? Like what is your perspective when you're actually thinking about voting?Randy Woodley: Yeah, that's a really good question. And I understand I think, how people in other countries might feel, because Americans foreign policy is pretty well based on America first and American exceptionalism, and gaining and maintaining power in the world. And I think that makes little difference. But in domestic affairs, I think it makes a whole lot of difference. Native Americans, much like Black Americans are predominantly Democrats and there's a reason for that. And that is because we're much more likely to not have our funding to Indian Health Service cut off in other things that we need, housing grants and those kinds of things. And there's just such a difference right now, especially in the domestic politics. So I mean, the Republicans have basically decided to abandon all morals and follow a narcissistic, masochistic, womanizing… I mean, how many—criminal, et cetera, and they've lost their minds.And not that they have ever had the best interest of the people at the bottom of the social ladder in mind. Because I mean, it was back in the turnaround when things changed a long time ago that there was any way of comparing the two. But ever since Reagan, which I watched, big business wins. And so right now, we live in a corporatocracy. And yes, there are Democrats and the Republicans involved in that corporatocracy, but you will find many more Democrats on the national scale who are for the poor and the disenfranchised. And that's exactly what Shalom is about. It's this Shalom-Sabbath-Jubilee construct that I call, that creates the safety nets. How do you know how sick a society is? How poor its safety nets are. So the better the safety nets, the more Shalom-oriented, Sabbath-Jubilee construct what I call it, which is exactly what Jesus came to teach.And look up four, that's his mission. Luke chapter four. And so, when we think about people who want to call themselves Christians, and they aren't concerned about safety nets, they are not following the life and words of Jesus. So you just have to look and say, yes, they'll always, as long as there's a two-party system, it's going to be the lesser of two evils. That's one of the things that's killing us, of course lobbyists are killing us and everything else. But this two-party system is really killing us. And as long as we have that, we're always going to have to choose the lesser of two evils. It's a very cynical view, I think, for people inside the United States to say, well, there's no difference. In fact, it's a ridiculous view. Because all you have to look at is policy and what's actually happened to understand that there's a large difference, especially if you're poor.And it's also a very privileged position of whiteness, of power, of privilege to be able to say, “Oh, it doesn't matter who you vote for.” No, it matters to the most disenfranchised and the most marginalized people in our country. But I don't have a strong opinion about that. [laughter]Jonathan Walton: I think there's going to be a lot of conversation about that very point. And I'm prayerful, I'm hopeful, like we tried to do with our Anthology like other groups are trying to do, is to make that point and make it as hard as possible that when we vote it matters, particularly for the most disenfranchised people. And so thank you for naming the “survival vote,” as black women in this country call it.Dr. Woodley's new books, and Where to Find His Work OnlineJonathan Walton: And so all of that, like we know you're doing work, we know things are still happening, especially with Eloheh and things like that. But I was doing a little Googling and I saw like you have a new book coming out [laughs]. So I would love to hear about the journey that… Oh, am I saying that right, Eloheh?Randy Woodley: It's Eloheh [pronounced like “ay-luh-hay”], yeah.Jonathan Walton: Eloheh. So I would love to hear more about your new book journey to Eloheh, as well as where you want people to just keep up with your stuff, follow you, because I mean, yes, the people downstream of you are pretty amazing, but the spigot is still running [laughter]. So can you point us to where we can find your stuff, be able to hang out and learn? That would be a wonderful thing for me, and for others listening.Randy Woodley: Well, first of all, I have good news for the children. I have three children's books that just today I posted on my Facebook and Insta, that are first time available. So this is The Harmony Tree Trilogy. So in these books are about not only relationships between host people and settler peoples, but each one is about sort of different aspects of dealing with climate change, clear cutting, wildfires, animal preservation, are the three that I deal with in this trilogy. And then each one has other separate things. Like the second one is more about empowering women. The third one is about children who we would call, autistic is a word that's used. But in the native way we look at people who are different differently than the West does: as they're specially gifted. And this is about a young man who pre-contact and his struggle to find his place in native society. And so yeah, there's a lot to learn in these books. But yeah, so my wife and I…Sy Hoekstra: What's the target age range for these books?Randy Woodley: So that'd be five to 11.Jonathan Walton: Okay, I will buy them, thank you [laughter]Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Randy Woodley: But adults seem to really love them too. So I mean, people have used them in church and sermons and all kinds of things. Then the book that Edith and I wrote is called Journey to Eloheh, how indigenous values bring harmony and well-being. And it's basically our story. The first two chapters really deal, the first chapter deals more in depth of this dualism construct. And the second one really deals with my views on climate change, which are unlike anybody else's I know. And then we get into our stories, but I wanted to set a stage of why it's so important. And then Edith's story, and then my story and then our story together. And then how we have tried to teach these 10 values as we live in the world and teach and mentor and other things and raise our children.So, yeah, the journey to Eloheh, that's all people have to remember. It's going to be out in October, eighth I think.Jonathan Walton: Okay.Randy Woodley: And we're really excited about it. I think it's the best thing I've written up to this date. And I know it's the best thing my wife's written because this is her first book [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Awesome.Sy Hoekstra: That's great.Randy Woodley: Yeah, so we're proud of that. And then yeah, people can go to www.eloheh.org. That's E-L-O-H-E-H.org and sign up for our newsletter. You can follow me on Instagram, both @randywoodley7 and @eloheh/eagleswings. And the same with Facebook. We all have Facebook pages and those kinds of things. So yeah, and then Twitter. I guess I do something on Twitter every now and then [laughter]. And I have some other books, just so you know.Sy Hoekstra: Just a couple.Jonathan Walton: I mean a few. A few pretty great ones. [laughs] Well on behalf of me and Sy, and the folks that we influence. Like I've got students that I've pointed toward you over the years through the different programs that we run,Randy Woodley: Thank you.Jonathan Walton: and one of them is… two of them actually want to start farms and so you'll be hearing from them.Randy Woodley: Oh, wow. That's good.Jonathan Walton: And so I'm just…Randy Woodley: We need more small farms.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Places where stewardship is happening and it is taught. And so, super, super grateful for you. And thanks again for being on Shake the Dust. We are deeply grateful.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Randy Woodley: Yeah, thank you guys. Nice to be with you.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Sy's and Jonathan's Thoughts After the InterviewJonathan Walton: So, wow. That was amazing. Coming out of that time, I feel like I'm caring a lot. So Sy, why don't you go first [laughs], what's coming up for you?Sy Hoekstra: We sound a little starstruck when we were talking to him. It's kind of funny actually.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if people know, in our world, he's sort of a big deal [laughter]. And we have, neither of us have met him before so that was a lot of fun.Jonathan Walton: No, that's true.Sy Hoekstra: I think it was incredible how much like in the first five minutes, him summing up so much about Western theology and culture that I have taken like, I don't know, 15 years to learn [laughs]. And he just does it so casually and so naturally. There's just like a depth of wisdom and experience and thinking about this stuff there that I really, really appreciate. And it kind of reminded me of this thing that happened when Gabrielle and I were in law school. Gabrielle is my wife, you've heard her speak before if you listen to the show. She was going through law school, as she's talked about on the show from a Haitian-American, or Haitian-Canadian immigrant family, grew up relatively poor, undocumented.And just the reasons that she's gotten into the law are so different. And she comes from such a different background than anybody who's teaching her, or any of the judges whose cases she's reading. And she's finding people from her background just being like, “What are we doing here? Like how is this relevant to us, how does this make a difference?” And we went to this event one time that had Bryan Stevenson, the Capitol defense attorney who we've talked about before, civil rights attorney. And Sherrilyn Ifill, who at the time was the head of the NAACP's Legal Defense Fund. And they were just, it was the complete opposite experience, like they were talking about all of her concerns. They were really like, I don't know, she was just resonating with everything that they were saying, and she came out of it, and she goes, “It's just so good to feel like we have leaders.” Like it's such a relief to feel like you actually have wiser people who have been doing this and thinking about this for a long time and actually have the same concerns that you do. And that is how I feel coming out of our conversation with Randy Woodley. Like in the church landscape that we face with all the crises and the scandals and the lack of faithfulness and the ridiculous politics and everything, it is just so good to sit down and talk to someone like him, where I feel like somebody went ahead of me. And he's talking about the people who went ahead of him, and it just it's relieving. It is relieving to feel like you're almost sort of part of a tradition [laughter], when you have been alienated from the tradition that you grew up in, which is not the same experience that you've had, but that's how I feel.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean, I think for me, coming out of the interview, one of the things I realized is similar. I don't have very many conversations with people who are older than me, that are more knowledgeable than me, and have been doing this work longer than me all at the same time. I know people who are more knowledgeable, but they're not actively involved in the work. I know people that are actively involved in the work, but they've been in the silos for so long, they haven't stepped out of their box in ten years. But so to be at that intersection of somebody who is more knowledgeable about just the knowledge, like the historical aspects, theological aspect, and then that goes along with the practical applications, like how you do it in your life and in the lives of other people. He's like the spiritual grandfather to people that I follow.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: [laughter] So it's like, so I think you said it, like we were a little starstruck. I do think I was very conscious of being respectful, which I think is not new for me, but it is a space that I don't often inhabit. And I think that's something that has been frustrating for me, just honestly like the last few years, is that the pastoral aspect of the work that we do, is severely lacking.Sy Hoekstra: When you say the pastoral aspect of the work that we do, you mean like, in the kind of activist-y Christian space, there just aren't a ton of pastors [laughs]?Jonathan Walton: Yes. And, so for example, like I was in a cohort, and I was trying to be a participant. And so being a participant in the cohort, I expected a certain level of pastoring to happen for me. And that in hindsight was a disappointment. But I only realized that after sitting down with somebody like Randy, where it's like, I'm not translating anything. He knows all the words. He knows more words than me [Sy laughs]. I'm not contextualizing anything. So I think that was a reassuring conversation. I think I felt the same way similarly with Ron Sider, like when I met him. He's somebody who just knows, you know what and I mean? I feel that way talking with Lisa Sharon Harper. I feel that way talking with Brenda Salter McNeil. I feel that way talking with people who are just a little further down the road.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Lisa's not that much older than us [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Well, is she?Sy Hoekstra: You compared her to Ron Sider. I'm like, “That's a different age group, Jonathan” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Well, I don't mean age. I do mean wisdom and experience.Sy Hoekstra: Right. Yeah, totally.Jonathan Walton: Yes, Ron Sider was very old [laughs]. And actually, Ron Sider is actually much older than Randy Woodley [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: That's also true. That's a good point.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, right. Ron Sider is, when the Anthology came out, he was legit 45 years older than us, I think.Sy Hoekstra: And he very kindly, endorsed, and then passed away not that long afterwards.Jonathan Walton: He did, he did.Sy Hoekstra: He was such an interesting giant in a lot of ways to people all over the political spectrum [laughs]…Jonathan Walton: Yes, right.Sy Hoekstra: …who just saw something really compelling in his work.Which Tab Is Still Open? Legislators Restricting Teaching about Race in SchoolsSy Hoekstra: So Jonathan, all right, from our recent newsletter recommendations. Here's the new segment, guys. Jonathan, which tab is still open?Jonathan Walton: Yes. So the tab that's still open is this article and podcast episode from The New Yorker, featuring a conversation with Columbia School of Journalism Dean, Jelani Cobb, and Nikole Hannah-Jones from Howard University and the 1619 project. They talked about the attack on Black history in schools. And so there's just two thoughts that I want to give. And one of them is that there are very few conversations where you can get a broad overview of what an organized, sustained resistance to accurate historical education looks like, and they do that. Like they go all the way back and they come all the way forward, and you're like “expletive, this is not okay.” [Sy laughs] Right? So, I really appreciated that. Like, yes, you could go and read Angela Crenshaw's like Opus work. Yes, you could go…Sy Hoekstra: You mean, Kimberlé Crenshaw [laughs]?Jonathan: Oh, I mixed, Angela Davis and Kimber… Well, if they were one person, that would be a powerful person [Sy laughs]. But I do mean Kimberlé Crenshaw, no offense to Angela Davis. I do mean Kimberlé Crenshaw. You could go get that book. You could go listen to Ta-Nehisi Coates testimony in front of Congress on reparations. Like these long things, but like this conversation pulls a lot of threads together in a really, really helpful, compelling way. And so that's one thing that stood out to me. The second thing is I think I have to acknowledge how fearful and how grateful it made me. I am afraid of what's going to happen in 20 years, when children do not know their history in these states. And I'm grateful that my daughter will know hers because she goes to my wife's school in New York.And so, I did not know that I would feel that sense of fear and anxiety around like, man, there's going to be generations of people. And this is how it continues. There's going to be another generation of people who are indoctrinated into the erasure of black people. And the erasure of native people in the erasure of just narratives that are contrary to race-based, class-based, gender-based environmental hierarchies. And that is something that I'm sad about. And with KTF and other things, just committed to making sure that doesn't happen as best as we possibly can, while also being exceptionally grateful that my children are not counted in that number of people that won't know. So I hold those two things together as I listened to just the wonderful wisdom and knowledge that they shared from. What about you Sy? What stood out for you?White People Should Take Responsibility for Their Feelings Instead of Banning Uncomfortable TruthsSy Hoekstra: Narrowly, I think one really interesting point that Jelani Cobb made was how some of these book bans and curriculum reshaping and everything that's happening are based on the opposite reasoning of the Supreme Court in Brown versus Board of Education [laughs]. So what he meant by that was, basically, we have to ban these books and we have to change this curriculum, because White kids are going to feel bad about being White kids. And what Brown versus Board of Education did was say we're going to end this idea of separate but equal in the segregated schools because there were they actually, Thurgood Marshall and the people who litigated the case brought in all this science or all the psychological research, about how Black children in segregated schools knew at a very young age that they were of lower status, and had already associated a bunch of negative ideas with the idea of blackness.And so this idea that there can be separate but equal doesn't hold any water, right? So he was just saying we're doing what he called the opposite, like the opposite of the thinking from Brown versus Board of Education at this point. But what I was thinking is like the odd similarity is that both these feelings of inferiority come from whiteness, it's just that like, one was imposed by the dominant group on to the minoritized group. Basically, one was imposed by White people on to Black people, and the other is White people kind of imposing something on themselves [laughs]. Like you are told that your country is good and great and the land of the free and the home of the brave. And so when you learn about history that might present a different narrative to you, then you become extremely uncomfortable.And you start to not just become extremely uncomfortable, but also feel bad about yourself as an individual. And White people, there are so many White people who believe that being told that the race to which you belong has done evil things, that means that you as an individual are a bad person, which is actually just a personal emotional reaction that not all white people are going to have. It's not like, it isn't a sure thing. And I know that because I'm a White person who does not have that reaction [laughter]. I know that with 100 percent certainty. So it's just interesting to me, because it really raised this point that Scott Hall talks about a lot. That people need to be responsible for our own feelings. We don't need to legislate a new reality of history for everybody else in order to keep ourselves comfortable.We need to say, “Why did I had that emotional reaction, and how can I reorient my sense of identity to being white?” And that is what I came out of this conversation with, is just White people need to take responsibility for our identity, our psychological identity with our own race. And it comes, it's sort of ironic, I think, that conservative people who do a lot of complaining about identity politics, or identitarianism, or whatever they call it, that's what's happening here. This is a complete inability to separate yourself psychologically from your White identity. That's what makes you feel so uncomfortable in these conversations. And so take responsibility for who you are White people [laughs].Just who you are as an individual, who you are as your feelings, take responsibility for yourself.There's a great book that my dad introduced me to a while back called A Race Is a Nice Thing to Have: A Guide to Being White or Understanding the White Persons in Your Life [laughter]. And it's written by this black, female psychologist named Janet Helms. It's H-E-L-M-S. But it's pronounced “Helmiss.” And she just has dedicated her career to understanding how White people shape their identities. And she has so, like such a wealth of knowledge about different stages of white identity formation, and has all these honestly kind of funny little quizzes in the book that she updates every few, there's like a bunch of editions of this book, that it's like asking you, “What do you think is best for America?” The campaign and ideas of this politician or this one or this one. And she asks you a bunch of questions and from there tells you where you are in your White identity formation [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Wow. That's amazing.Sy Hoekstra: It's really, “how would you feel if somebody said this about White people?” whatever. Tons of different questions, it's kind of like taking a personality test, but it's about you and your race [laughs]. That's just a resource that I would offer to people as a way to do what this conversation reminded me my people all very much need to do.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: I just talked for a long time, Jonathan, we need to end. But do you have any thoughts [laughs]?Jonathan Walton: No. I was just going to say this podcast is a great 101 and a great 301.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: Like it spans the spectrum. So please do if you haven't, go listen to the podcast. Yeah, just check it out. It's very, very good.Outro and OuttakeSy Hoekstra: We will have that in the show notes along with all the other links of everything that we had today. Okay, that's our first full episode of season four. We're so glad that you could join us. This was a great one full of a lot of great stuff. Our theme song as always is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra. Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess. The show is produced by all of you, our lovely subscribers, and our transcripts are by Joyce Ambale. Thank you all so much for listening, we will see you in two weeks with the great Brandi Miller.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ and you call us citizens/ and you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Randy Woodley: You know, I think I've said before Jesus didn't give a damn about doctrine. Excuse me. Jesus didn't give a darn about doctrine. I don't know if that'll go through or not.[laughter]. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com/subscribe

IN THIS EPISODE: We look into the creepy swamps of Louisiana, where gators and snakes are the least of your worries as compared to the paranormal. (Swamp Legends of Louisiana) *** From building fake cities, to creating ghost army bases, to playing stupid in front of the enemy, we'll look at some of the most cleverly deceptive tactics that have been used in war throughout history. (Brilliant Wartime Deceptions) *** Chung Ling Soo was one of the greatest magicians of his time – so much so the he was able to not only conceal items up his sleeves, but conceal his true identity. (The Magician Who Lived a Double Life) *** In 1974 five little girls disappeared in a span of just three months – two were later found deceased, but the remaining three have never been found. And the kidnapper and murderer has never been brought to justice… nor do we have any idea who it was. (The Jacksonville Kidnappings) *** Photographs of strange orblike objects are more common than any other photos purported to be ghosts, aliens, or cryptids. But what exactly are these orbs? A trick of the light… or could they be alive? (Could Ghost Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?) *** In the mountains of Jackson County in North Carolina lies a large mysterious rock covered in petroglyphs that have yet to be deciphered. For the Cherokee Indians, the rock and surrounding area is a sacred site where ceremonies used to take place. Indeed, Judaculla Rock is surrounded by rumors and legends, including strange sounds and UFO sightings during the night. (The Indecipherable Judaculla Rock) *** In 1971 children from all over the United States were being rushed into hospital emergency rooms with a very strange symptom… what was causing otherwise healthy children to create pink poop? (The Pink Poop Pandemic)YOUTUBE TIME STAMPS OR CHAPTERS…00:00.00.000 = Introduction00:02:00.595 = Show Open00:05:04.407 = Swamp Legends of Louisiana00:19:31.563 = Brilliant Wartime Deceptions00:28:51.340 = The Magician Who Lived a Double Life00:35:43.083 = The Jacksonville Kidnappings00:47:13.922 = Could Ghostly Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?00:52:50.433 = The Indecipherable Jadaculla Rock00:59:49.304 = The Pink Poop Pandemic01:06:12.657 = Show CloseSOURCES AND REFERENCES FROM THE EPISODE…“The Magician Who Lived a Double Life” by Kaushik Patowary for Amusing Planet:https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/yckvppfw“The Indecipherable Judaculla Rock” by John Black for Ancient Origins Unleashed: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/4jxjra7u“Swamp Legends of Louisiana” by Erin McCann for Graveyard Shift: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/46uj6fyk“The Pink Poop Pandemic” by Roisin Everard for Historic Mysteries: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/5ak8kzv7“The Jacksonville Kidnappings” by Robert A. Waters for Kidnapping, Murder and Mayhem: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/bdfhcbwu“Brilliant Wartime Deceptions” by Jetta for ListVerse: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/4f9xwp3z“Could Ghost Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?” by A. Sutherland for Message To Eagle:https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/5n6awrpmWeird Darkness theme by Alibi Music Library. Weird Darkness “DARKIVES” theme by Manuel Marino.= = = = =(Over time links seen above may become invalid, disappear, or have different content. I always make sure to give authors credit for the material I use whenever possible. If I somehow overlooked doing so for a story, or if a credit is incorrect, please let me know and I will rectify it in these show notes immediately. Some links included above may benefit me financially through qualifying purchases.)= = = = ="I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness." — John 12:46= = = = =WeirdDarkness® is a registered trademark. Copyright ©2024, Weird Darkness.= = = = =Originally aired: May, 2022CUSTOM WEBPAGE: https://weirddarkness.com/creepy-swamp-legends-of-louisiana/

Following August's U.S. Supreme Court decision ending affirmative action, several states are rushing to rid their higher education institutions of recruitment and inclusion programs that benefit Native students. On top of that, the botched update to the FAFSA process has many families confused about their ability to pay for college in the coming academic year. Native Americans already have among the lowest college enrollment rates. Higher education advocates worry the confluence of factors might erase any recent educational attainment gains. GUESTS Secretary Miguel Cardona, U.S. Secretary of Education Cheryl Crazy Bull (Sičháŋǧu Lakota), president and CEO of the American Indian College Fund Julia Wakeford (Mvskoke and Yuchi), National Indian Education Association policy director Dr. Corey Still (citizen of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians), senior research director at One Fire Associates, LLC

Artist John Henry Gloyne (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians) took home Best of Show at this year's Trail of Tears Art Show. Learn about the process behind his award-winning piece titled “Burial Ceremony: The Four Souls of the Cherokee Being” and the cultural significance behind the painting in this Artist Spotlight. The 53rd Annual Trail of Tears Art Show runs now through May 11 at Cherokee Springs Plaza in Tahlequah, Oklahoma, and online at: https://TrailOfTearsArtShow.com

Ronald A. Matthews joined Eastern University in 1992 and was appointed the 10th President of Eastern University effective March 1, 2018. Prior to this call, Dr. Matthews served as Professor of Music, Chair of the Music Department, and since 2010, Executive Director of the Fine and Performing Arts Division. Born and raised in Philadelphia, Dr. Matthews graduated from Central High School. Having received a Philadelphia Board of Education music scholarship, he did his undergraduate work in Church Music and Organ at Westminster Choir College where he graduated magna cum laude and received both the Senior Class Conducting Award and the Christian Leadership Award. Dr. Matthews received the Master of Music degree in Choral Conducting from Temple University, during which time he was invited to conduct the Jerusalem Chamber Orchestra for a recording project in Tel Aviv. At the age of 23, Dr. Matthews was invited to join the faculty of Nyack College as the Director of Choral Activities. He received his Doctor of Musical Arts degree from Combs College of Music in Composition with an emphasis in Orchestral Conducting. From 1982-1992, Dr. Matthews was the Chair of the Department of Music at what is now Cairn University. For several years, he was a Thomas F. Staley Foundation lecturer/artist and served on professional and denominational boards and task forces. From 2005 until 2018, he was the Pastor of Worship Arts at Church of the Saviour in Wayne, PA. Dr. Matthews has conducted, recorded, and performed in France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Switzerland and the Vatican. He is a commissioned and published composer. He has performed and recorded regularly with his younger brother, Rev. Dr. Gary Matthews, in concerts and workshops throughout the United States and internationally. His older brother, Dr. John T. Matthews, is Professor of English at Boston University. Dr. Matthews' most recent release is a jazz piano Christmas recording, Holly and Ivory. Dr. Matthews is married to Pamela R. Matthews, who was raised in Oreland, PA and graduated from Springfield High School. She graduated from Chestnut Hill Hospital's School of Radiologic Technology. Mrs. Matthews is a registered Ultrasonographer and received her training in Ultrasonography from Jefferson University and Chestnut Hill Hospital. For over thirty years she worked in Obstetrics and Gynecology with Abington Hospital - Jefferson Health until 2017. She served as the President of the Home and School Association for the Upper Moreland Round Meadow Elementary School during which she raised funds for new playground equipment. For the Middle School, she organized a campaign resulting in the purchase of a new grand piano for the music program. Mrs. Matthews is an avid tennis player and is also interested in charitable and mission work. She has organized fundraising projects for Haiti and the Cherokee Indians in Cherokee, NC, and she has traveled to Cartagena, Colombia on a sports mission trip. Dr. and Mrs. Matthews have two adult sons.  

Micheli Oliver (she/they) is a filmmaker, photographer and storyteller based in Denver, Colorado. Her work centers her family, BIPOC, LGBTQIA+ and femme voices to facilitate connection and help folx build strong relationships with the land. Micheli works to create safe spaces for honest and joyful storytelling across different creative media and just premiered her debut film "Provide."     In this episode, Justine and Micheli chat about:   - Growing up in Colorado with a passion for hunting, fishing, and camping - How being stranded in the middle of Idaho with a new camera led her to photography as a potential career path - Challenging the way that media portrays time outdoors; there's no one way to be outside - Uniting diverse groups through their love and appreciation of the land - Personal values and ethics in creativity, selling, and the outdoor industry - Embracing truth and joy in storytelling - Projects and people that inspire her like: Jojo The Toad Musical, Max Romey and Alexandra Houchin   - The joy and learnings of working with the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina - The challenges of balancing commercial projects with personal projects       and more!   Connect with Micheli Website: https://www.michelioliver.com   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/micheliphoto   Connect with Justine: Website: https://www.justawildthought.com  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/justawildthought    Was this episode helpful? Screenshot this and tell a friend to go to justawildthought.com/podcast! Please rate and review Creatives in the Wild on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

Missionary Evangelist Robert Breaker speaks about the rapture and the events that happen after that. This sermon was preached in Tahlequah, Oklahoma in March of 2024, in a Cherokee Indian church, during the annual King James Bible Conference.

In this episode of the Discomfort Zone Podcast, Laura Blythe, a passionate mountain biker and proud member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians shares her wisdom on stepping into your discomfort zone to build confidence, healing and resilience. She shares her experience running up against barriers to entry into mountain biking, why representation matters, and how she's empowering her community to heal and grow by taking to the trails. If you're an outdoor educator, facilitator, or company committed to diversifying the outdoors, you'll want to pay attention to what Laura shares in this conversation. In this conversation we touch on: The importance of prepping and getting educated for the adventures and discomfort. How stepping into your discomfort zone can build confidence and resilience in all areas of life. Mtn biking as a path to healing and growth. Why representation, community connection, exposure and trust are crucial in creating inclusive spaces in the outdoors. Steps educators and companies can take to create match their actions with their words when it comes to diversifying the outdoors. Learn More: The Discomfort Zone Podcast

In this episode I sit down with Laura Blythe, a citizen of the Eastern Band Cherokee Indians, as she shares her transformative experience through mountain biking. We delve into the Seven Moons Mountain Biking program, where Laura intertwines her vibrant Cherokee heritage into every pedal stroke on the Fire Mountain Trails system. Discover how this program transcends fitness, serving as a bridge between past and present, while nurturing a community that rides together and grows together.Laura paints a vivid picture of the Seven Moons program, where participants pedal through rides rich with Cherokee language, myths, and history, fostering a deeper connection to their roots and promoting physical and mental well-being. Through her narrative, we uncover the program's broader ambitions for youth outreach and cultural preservation, aiming to cultivate a new generation of bikers who carry the torch for their heritage with pride.7 Moons MTBEastern Band Cherokee IndiansFire Mountain Trails Cherokee, NCMADE X MTNSOutdoor Equity FundMike AndressHost, Exploration Local828-551-9065mike@explorationlocal.comPodcast WebsiteFacebookInstagram: explorationlocal

You've got to have friends! Personal and professional connections are critical to the development of healthy communities, whether they are rural or urban. In this final episode of our Spark! series, we're examing how two communities innovated around culture and heritage to overcome stagnation and division. In Helper, Utah, the city came together to design their own revitalized main street and plan a future after the coal industry left. In Franklin, North Carolina, the town had to face the past to reconcile with the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians so the two communities could work together to preserve the past and build a mutually beneficial future.

One of the biggest changes for your tax return hasn't happened yet. Congress is still mulling over a child tax credit that could very well send more money back to families and would apply retroactively to 2023 returns. Although more modest than the 2021 credit tied to pandemic relief, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities says Native American families will be among the groups that would benefit most. We'll discuss child credits and help clear up the confusion that comes with every federal income tax season. GUESTS Sunny Guillory (Standing Rock Sioux), financial literacy coordinator at Northwest Indian College and Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA) site coordinator Luella Brien (Apsáalooke), volunteer tax preparer since 2016 through the Chief Dull Knife College Extension Office's VITA program Christi Climbingbear (Kiowa), treasury analyst in the Treasury division at the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians and VITA site coordinator

The Dadiwonsi Adult Language Program in North Carolina just welcomed its first graduates in the Cherokee Language. The program is part of an extensive network to develop new fluent Cherokee speakers on and around the Qualla Boundary. And a translation effort hopes to connect modern Cherokees with past culture keepers, Inoli and Will West Long. GUESTS Tom Belt (Cherokee Nation), retired WCU Cherokee Language Program Coordinator Cailon Garland (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), recent graduate of the Snowbird Adult Immersion Cherokee Language Program  Cassidy Galaviz (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), language specialist and teacher of the Cherokee language

After reaching out to tribal leaders and citizens, the museum on the home of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in North Carolina re-launched with a new name and purpose. It's a major makeover that officials with the Museum of the Cherokee People say now pulls together aspects of all three federally recognized Cherokee tribes. It's one of several Native organizations and businesses that recently saw a need to refresh their image to better reflect their changing goals and purpose. We'll talk with museum officials as well as branding experts about taking on a change in direction. Photo: The museum for the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians is known for its iconic wooden sculpture of Sequoyah. After a rebrand, the museum hopes it's able to reflect a broader range of Cherokee culture (by Judy Dexter, via Flickr/CC) GUESTS Tim Neal (Cree), owner of a Saskatoon design and advertising studio   Alex Lane (Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), manager of visitor services at the Museum of the Cherokee People

Renee takes a look at cases of missing and murdered women and girls from the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. She also talks with a board member from the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children about how tribes can gain access to digital investigative tools to better aid them in these cases. Show Notes: skinxerin.com https://shopxerin.com/collections/fit-rocker-chick-skin https://www.wow-womenonwriting.com/classroom/ReneeRoberson_Podcasting.php Episode 29 Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women in North Carolina, Part 1 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/missing-in-the-carolinas/id1511309373?i=1000537968645 Episode 32: Missing Teens Girls in North Carolina https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/missing-in-the-carolinas/id1511309373?i=1000541605838

One way Indigenous cultures keep kids in line is with frightening traditional stories that have a moral or practical lesson. They include tales of children being dragged underwater for wandering too close to the sea or getting haunted by bad spirits if they don't respect their parents. We're gathering around the microphone, turning off the lights, and listening to spooky stories from Cherokee, Muskogee, Inuit, and other storytellers, with special guest host Alyssa Yáx̱ Ádi Yádi London. GUESTS Choogie Kingfisher (United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians in Oklahoma), storyteller and 2019 Cherokee National Treasure Chris “Honka” Hill (Muskogee Creek), co-host of the Spirit Talkers Podcast

Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians citizens overwhelmingly voted in favor of allowing recreational cannabis use on the tribe's reservation. If approved by the tribal council, the Qualla Boundary could be positioned as the only location for legal marijuana sales in the southeastern United States. Supporters say it is necessary to diversify a tribal economy heavily dependent on gaming. But they'll have to persevere against opposition including some tribal officials and at least one North Carolina congressman who proposes withholding public funds from tribes that utilize their sovereign right to sell cannabis. GUESTS Forrest Parker (member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians), general manager for Qualla Enterprises, LLC   Mary Jane Oatman (Nez Perce and Delaware Tribe descendant), founder of the Indigenous Cannabis Coalition & THC Magazine and the executive director of the Indigenous Cannabis Industry Association  Tom Rodgers (Blackfeet), founder of Carlyle Consulting and the Global Indigenous Council, an advocacy organization focusing on Native American issues

A handful of tribes are venturing into the realm of family fun in the form of water parks, amusement parks, or theme parks. The Poarch Band of Creek Indians just opened a $70 million expansion to its giant Alabama Gulf Coast water park that also offers restaurants and live entertainment venues. The Eastern Band of the Cherokee Indians has a $75 million deal for a Tennessee theme park that will also feature an interactive look at Cherokee military heroism. As the days of summer vacations begin to wane, we'll take a look at the draw — and business — of tribal family destinations.

Help spread the darkness! VOTE FOR THIS EPISODE at https://weirddarkness.com/vote – you can vote up to 3X per day! Find Weird Darkness in your favorite podcast app at https://weirddarkness.com/listen. PLEASE SHARE WEIRD DARKNESS® in your social media and with others who loves paranormal stories, true crime, monsters, or unsolved mysteries like you do! Want to advertise in Weird Darkness? Visit https://weirddarkness.com/advertise for more info!IN THIS EPISODE: From building fake cities, to creating ghost army bases, to playing stupid in front of the enemy, we'll look at some of the most cleverly deceptive tactics that have been used in war throughout history. (Brilliant Wartime Deceptions) *** Chung Ling Soo was one of the greatest magicians of his time – so much so the he was able to not only conceal items up his sleeves, but conceal his true identity. (The Magician Who Lived a Double Life) *** In 1974 five little girls disappeared in a span of just three months – two were later found deceased, but the remaining three have never been found. And the kidnapper and murderer has never been brought to justice… nor do we have any idea who it was. (The Jacksonville Kidnappings) *** Photographs of strange orblike objects are more common than any other photos purported to be ghosts, aliens, or cryptids. But what exactly are these orbs? A trick of the light… or could they be alive? (Could Ghost Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?) *** In the mountains of Jackson County in North Carolina lies a large mysterious rock covered in petroglyphs that have yet to be deciphered. For the Cherokee Indians, the rock and surrounding area is a sacred site where ceremonies used to take place. Indeed, Judaculla Rock is surrounded by rumors and legends, including strange sounds and UFO sightings during the night. (The Indecipherable Judaculla Rock) *** In 1971 children from all over the United States were being rushed into hospital emergency rooms with a very strange symptom… what was causing otherwise healthy children to create pink poop? (The Pink Poop Pandemic) *** We look into the creepy swamps of Louisiana, where gators and snakes are the least of your worries as compared to the paranormal. (Swamp Legends of Louisiana)SOURCES AND ESSENTIAL WEB LINKS…“The Magician Who Lived a Double Life” by Kaushik Patowary for Amusing Planet:https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/yckvppfw “The Indecipherable Judaculla Rock” by John Black for Ancient Origins Unleashed: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/4jxjra7u “Swamp Legends of Louisiana” by Erin McCann for Graveyard Shift: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/46uj6fyk “The Pink Poop Pandemic” by Roisin Everard for Historic Mysteries: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/5ak8kzv7 “The Jacksonville Kidnappings” by Robert A. Waters for Kidnapping, Murder and Mayhem: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/bdfhcbwu “Brilliant Wartime Deceptions” by Jetta for ListVerse: https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/4f9xwp3z “Could Ghost Orbs Be Living Energy Beings?” by A. Sutherland for Message To Eagle:https://weirddarkness.tiny.us/5n6awrpm = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =Weird Darkness theme and background music by Alibi Music Library with paid license.= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =(Over time links seen above may become invalid, disappear, or have different content. I always make sure to give authors credit for the material I use whenever possible. If I somehow overlooked doing so for a story, or if a credit is incorrect, please let me know and I will rectify it in these show notes immediately. Some links included above may benefit me financially through qualifying purchases.)= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ="I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness." — John 12:46= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =WeirdDarkness™ - is a production and trademark of Marlar House Productions. © 2023, Weird Darkness.= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =TRANSCRIPT: https://weirddarkness.com/archives/15555This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/3655291/advertisement

n this episode of Bear Grease, part two of our Conman series on the double life of Asa Forrest Carter, Clay Newcomb dives into the gritty details of the violence, hate, and conspiracy philosophies of the first 45 years of his life and how, in the last decade of his life, he transformed into an unrecognizable, “Cherokee Indian” author who wanted to be America's next Hemmingway – and almost did it. Once again, author of Unmasking the Klansman, Dr. Dan T Carter and Steve Rinella of MeatEater lead the way as his guests. Brace yourself because this winding trail will be treacherous as they talk about the beating of jazz singer Nat King Cole, read from the Unabomber's Manifesto, and begin to understand how Asa Carter did what he did. We're going neck deep into the mind of a Conman. We really doubt you're gonna wanna miss this one… Audio excerpts courtesy of “The Reconstruction of Asa Carter” Connect with Clay and MeatEater Clay on Instagram MeatEater on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and Youtube Shop Bear Grease MerchSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.