Podcasts about Edinburgh Zoo

Whale and dolphin researcher, Barry McGovern's love of sea creatures started in Clare, Ireland, when as a child he met the county's solitary, friendly dolphin, named for the singer Dusty Springfield.Barry grew up in a tiny surfing village where he knew all the bird calls off by heart.His interest in animal science led him to Edinburgh Zoo, where he fed cassowaries and regularly, accidentally spooked a flock of Chilean flamingos.He assisted on a mammal research trip in Namibia, where he learned just how many people are required to take biopsy sample from a giraffe. Eventually he settled on whales, and he learned the lesson that while animals can be lots of fun to study, they come with a heavy research load, and not much time spent out in the wild.Barry has been slapped in the face by a whale's tail and watched mother humpback whales squirt-feed their calves breast milk like cottage cheese. And he couldn't be happier. Today, Barry works at the Pacific Whale Foundation, Australia. This episode was produced by Alice Moldovan. Conversations' EP is Nicola Harrison. Presented by Sarah Kanowski.Conversations Live is coming to the stage! Join Sarah Kanowski and Richard Fidler for an unmissable night of unforgettable stories, behind-the-scenes secrets, and surprise guests. Australia's most-loved podcast — live, up close, and in the moment. Find out more on the Conversations website.

Adam explores Edinburgh Zoo, meeting incredible animals like Monty the python, baby hippo Haggis, and over 150 penguins! We find out what makes this zoo so special and its important role in conservation. Plus, Jon Carter from the British Trust for Ornithology joins us to talk about great spotted woodpeckers—how to find them and why they drum.Join Fun Kids Podcasts+: https://funkidslive.com/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dateline: January 31, 2025. Rossifari Zoo News is back with a round up of the latest news in the world of zoos, aquariums, conservation, and animal weirdness!   We start off with a quick update from Texas! Our headline story this week is Zoë talking about a proposed change to the veterinary field that is NOT a great idea. We then move on to our births for the week, featuring animals from Dickerson Park Zoo, the Chattanooga Zoo, Karlsruhe Zoo, and Cameron Park Zoo.We say goodbye to beloved animals at the Edinburgh Zoo, the Montgomery Zoo, the Staten Island Zoo, Dickerson Park Zoo, John Ball Zoo, and Zoo Berlin.The rest of our Zoo News stories feature items from ZooMontana, Lehigh Valley Zoo, Potawatomi Zoo, and so much more! Then in Conservation News we have another update about bird flu, discuss a whole community coming together to save tortoises, discuss the illegal wildlife trade, and dive into why we keep finding species we thought were extinct. In Other News we finally end the escaped monkeys story from three months ago, look for some heroes, and share an amazing story about bonnethead sharks! ROSSIFARI LINKS: patreon.com/rossifari to support the pod rossifari.com @rossifari on socials @rossifaripod on TikTok 

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to be a gardener at a zoo? Rab Harden, head gardener at Edinburgh Zoo, explains how they grow specific plants to feed the zoo animals as well as choosing the right plants for their enclosures. No two days are the same for a zoo gardener and the team's work is as varied as it is vital. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

  It's time for another trip around the solar system on the BIGGER and BETTER Science Weekly!  This episode of the Fun Kids Science Weekly we continue our bigger and better podcast where we answer YOUR questions, have scientists battle it out for which science is the best & learn all about an incredible birth at Edinburgh Zoo. Dan starts with the latest science news where we learn about the UK's oldest satellite, Skynet-1A, which has unexplainably moved to the other side of the world and Jonny Appleyard from Edinburgh Zoo joins Dan to discuss the incredible birth of a rare baby hippo.  Then we delve into your questions where Dan explains how we see and Lucy Hawkes from the University of Exeter answers Romi's question on do fish drink water.  Dangerous Dan continues and we learn all about the Dynamite Tree.The Battle of the Sciences continues where Dan chats to Magda Osman from the University of Leeds on why decision sciences is the best kind of science.  What do we learn about? An incredibly rare birth at Edinburgh Zoo.  Why the UK's oldest satellite suddenly decide to change course.  Why 2024 will be the warmest year on record.  Do fish drink water? Is decision science the best type of science? All on this week's episode of Science Weekly!Join Fun Kids Podcasts+: https://funkidslive.com/plusSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dateline: November 15, 2024. Rossifari Zoo News is back with a round up of the latest news in the world of zoos, aquariums, conservation, and animal weirdness!   We start off with my life. Yay. We then do a quick headline story about a study that looks at the best way to experience a zoo or aquarium. My guess is you won't be surprised. We then move on to our births section, including babies at Adventure Aquarium, Darling Downs Zoo, Gulf Breeze Zoo, and Brookfield Zoo. We also say goodbye to some incredible animals from the Edinburgh Zoo, the Columbus Zoo, the Calgary Zoo, and Cameron Park Zoo. We then move on to our other Zoo News stories.  This episode features stories from Edmonton Valley Zoo and the Toronto Zoo, The Bronx Zoo, Loveland Living Planet Aquarium, The North Carolina Zoo, the Maryland Zoo, Woodland Park Zoo, Cincinnati Zoo, and more. In Conservation News, we talk about the proposed new head of the EPA, why turtles being awesome is bad, the way AI is effecting the environment, and a debate about whether a species is back from extinction.In Other News, we talk about the tiger at the LSU game, the largest coral in the world, a marching zoo, and an update on the monkey escape from last week.

Dateline: November 8, 2024. Rossifari Zoo News is back with a round up of the latest news in the world of zoos, aquariums, conservation, and animal weirdness!   We start off with my thoughts about the election, kind of. Just listen or skip that part, whatever you need today. We then move on to our births section, including red panda triplets at Lincoln Childrens Zoo, a cool giraffe birth story from Potawatomi Zoo, the start of African penguin breeding season at the Maryland Zoo, possibly the cutest pygmy hippo ever, unless you're a TikTok person, and more! We also say goodbye to some incredible animals from Zoo Miami, the National Zoo, the Buffalo Zoo, the Adelaide Zoo, and the Edinburgh Zoo.  We then move on to our other Zoo News stories.  This episode features stories from The Fort Worth Zoo, Buttonwood Park Zoo, Beardsley Zoo, the London Zoo, Seneca Park Zoo, Seaquest Aquariums, and The Wilds! In Conservation News, we talk about the climate and some more good news for North Atlantic Right WhalesIn Other News, we talk about an emperor penguin and the loss of 43 monkeys. 

PRESS REVIEW – Tuesday, November 5: We take a look at the US front pages ahead of the country's landmark presidential vote. Also: what, if any, difference will the election result make to the ongoing war in the Middle East? Finally, a pygmy hippo born at Edinburgh Zoo is vying for internet fame.

Dateline: October 4, 2024. Rossifari Zoo News is back with a round up of the latest news in the world of zoos, aquariums, conservation, and animal weirdness!   We start off with a quick catch up on my lifeWe then get to our headline story, looking at the effects of Hurricane Helene, especially on zoological facilities.  Three places are going to be shut down for a long time because of the storm, and more had to close for a day or a few days, so we get into that.We then move on to our births section, including a new red panda at Edinburgh Zoo, a mountain bongo at Marwell Zoo, an aardvark at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park, a new GLT at RWPZ, some Komodo's at Nashville, and more!We also say goodbye to some incredible animals. We start off with a tree kangaroo that meant a lot to me, a bison at Lehigh Valley Zoo, a rhino at the Phoenix Zoo, a young dolphin at Shedd, and more. We then move on to our other Zoo News stories.  This episode features stories from the Bronx Zoo, Greensboro Science Center, the accreditation hearings at the AZA Conference, and a look at Moo Deng and Pesto the penguin.In Conservation News, we talk about a horrible thing that happened to some sea turtle nests, the rediscovery of a species thought lost, the reintroduction of a very endangered tiger species to a part of its original range, Australia's first Marsupial of the Year, and more.In Other News, I give you a non-news fact about tree kangaroos.  You're welcome.Wild Times: Wildlife EducationWildlife mysteries, crazy news, and daring animal stories—listen now!Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify Wild Times: Wildlife EducationWildlife mysteries, crazy news, and daring animal stories—listen now!Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

How to become smarter? How to amaze your friends with your knowledge? The world is full of surprising and unusual things that we don't even notice. For example, why do pigeons head-bob when walking? What is the closest descendant of T-Rex that still lives? You're about to find out 15 facts that may seem ridiculous at first, but turn out to be true when you learn more about them. TIMESTAMPS The Chinese can't drink milk 0:39 Pigeons «head-bob» to stabilize the picture they see 2:05 1.6% of people can feel pain when they see someone in pain 2:54 When a patient gets a kidney transplant, their kidneys are left where they were 3:59 In Scotland, there is a penguin with an army rank 4:31 In Switzerland, you can't keep only one Guinea pig as a pet 5:18 Twins can have different fathers 6:03 In Japan, there are crabs that look like an angry face 6:53 People with blue eyes appeared much later then ceramics were invented 7:27 A papercut is more painful than regular cuts 7:58 A bee can sting another bee 8:30 Chicken is the closest descendant of T-Rex 8:56 The amount of hair in the body influences intelligence 9:27 Women also have Adam's apples 9:56 There is a multicolored river in Colombia 10:15 Music: https://www.youtube.com/audiolibrary/... SUMMARY -Most Asians that can't drink milk or consume any dairy products. It's called lactose intolerance. -Pigeons head-bob with their flexible necks to see your food clearly when they try to steal it. -The pain is generated by the brain. That's why some people that can experience real pain when they see someone being hurt. -In order not to put a patient at a higher risk during kidney transplantation, doctors choose to leave the kidneys. -One of the penguins at the Edinburgh Zoo was adopted by Norwegian lieutenant Nils Egelien in 1961 and given a military rank. -There is a law in Switzerland that prohibits you from making Guinea pigs live in solitude. -Twins can have different fathers, and this phenomenon is called superfecundation. -Heinegani is a type of crab that has a shell which looks like an angry face. -Blue color of eyes appeared around 6000 to 10000 years ago due to a genetic mutation. Originally, all people had brown eyes. -Paper cuts are usually not very deep, that's why there is either very little blood or no blood at all. This leaves the nerve endings open to be disturbed by the air. -If an outsider bee tries to get inside a hive, special guardian bees release pheromones while other bees attack the intruder. -The closest descendant of this dinosaur is a chicken. Scientists compared the proteins inside the bones of both species and found a lot of similarities. -Basically, if you have a lot of hair on your chest, you are more likely to be smart. -Women also have Adam's apples, but they are less prominent due to the smaller amount of male hormones in the female body. -Caño Cristales is often called the most beautiful river in the world. From July to November, the river is multicolored. Subscribe to Bright Side : https://goo.gl/rQTJZz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our Social Media: Facebook:   / brightside   Instagram:   / brightgram   SMART Youtube: https://goo.gl/JTfP6L 5-Minute Crafts Youtube: https://www.goo.gl/8JVmuC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For more videos and articles visit: http://www.brightside.me/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Penguins have been making international news. This short podcast describes how I used to work with the penguins at Edinburgh Zoo, when I was a student, and then we go on to discuss the two recent news stories.

Dateline: July 19, 2024. Rossifari Zoo News is back with a round up of the latest news in the world of zoos, aquariums, conservation, and animal weirdness!   We start off with a quick update on my life and then head to our headline story, which is a look at the economic effect of accredited zoos and aquariums on their local economies! For this, we take a look at a recent economic development that happened because of the growth of the Greensboro Science Center!  We then get into our births for the week including a tree kangaroo joey at the Bronx Zoo, a new spoonbill at Zoo Tampa, a colobus monkey at Zoo New England, a very special birth at the Prague Zoo, a new orangutan at the Philly Zoo, and a new penguin at the Kansas City Zoo!We also say goodbye to some incredible animals including a chimpanzee at the Edinburgh Zoo, an old kangaroo at Columbus, a beloved giraffe at the Sacramento Zoo, an old eagle at the Denver Zoo, and more.  We then move on to our other Zoo News stories.  We talk about a new exhibit at the National Aquarium, a strike at Zoo de Granby, new animals joining the fold at Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, Columbus, and Stone Zoo, plans for the future at Akron and Brookfield Zoo, an elephant entering hospice care at the Little Rock Zoo, and more! In Conservation News, we talk about sea turtle nesting season, a mass stranding of whales, and a technological advancement in collaring wolves!  In Other News, we talk about AI, animals on roadways, and more! ROSSIFARI LINKS:  www.rossifari.com  patreon.com/rossifari  @rossifari on socials  @rossifaripod on TikTokSKIN TO IT PodcastWelcome to Skin to It.Your guide to healthy skin. Join us on our journey as...Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

In deze aflevering bezoeken we de Schotse dierentuinen Blair Drummond Safaripark en Edinburgh Zoo. ➤ Volg Zoo Inside op Facebook: www.facebook.com/zooinsidepodcast/ ➤ Volg Zoo Inside op X: twitter.com/Zooinsidenl ➤ Volg Zoo Inside op Instagram: www.instagram.com/zooinside_podcast

We've travelled up to Scotland to visit Europe's biggest penguin pool - why? Because it's none other than World Penguin Day! Join us as we head to Edinburgh Zoo to meet the people behind the penguins and learn about the home of over 130 Antarctic avians, including none other than Major General Sir Nils Olav III, Baron of the Bouvet Islands - officially the world's highest ranked military penguin. We also go behind the scenes at the zoo to learn more about their scientific work with genetics to study penguins on some of the most remote islands in the world.  We also take a quick detour with our new show sponsors MPB photography to learn about the world of wildlife photography and see - being World Penguin Day - how one photographer got very up close with a penguin... ... .though not entirely of the penguin's making! And lastly, in an episode more dedicated to the letter P than anything else, we are delighted to be launching our new Patreon which you can sign up to here  A huge thank you to the team at Edinburgh Zoo for making this episode possible.  You can check out mpb photography here Visit our other show sponsor birdfy, home of smart tech bird feeders, here

We are so excited to talk to Krystyna Faroe today! Not only is she one of our amazing facilitators, she is also an extraordinary human who has overcome many trials and tribulations and come out of it all with a positive attitude and a smile that could light up any room.  Her story is not short or without hardships, as most stories of triumph.  Krystyna's parents were Polish refugees in a country that didn't readily welcome them, leading to significant struggles during her upbringing. Her mother's health was fragile, while her father worked night shifts to provide for the family. Krystyna's family history was marked by hardship, with her mother surviving the horrors of a gulag salt mine, where siblings perished due to starvation. Her father, a veteran of the Battle of Monte Casino in Italy, was part of a storied unit that raised the first flag on the hill during the conflict. Their troop's story, including the adoption of Wojtek, a bear enlisted as a private, garnered attention and was immortalized in films. Wojtek, beloved by all, spent his final days at Edinburgh Zoo. The experiences of her parents and grandparents deeply influenced Krystyna's DNA, akin to salmon instinctively knowing their spawning grounds. Raised in an environment shadowed by parental PTSD and financial strain, she faced constant discouragement and belittlement of her aspirations. Despite the odds, Krystyna persisted, embarking on a journey that led her to immigrate to Canada, leaving behind her family and friends. Her path was marked by challenges, including the loss of four horses and personal injuries, yet she remained resilient, replacing her losses and pursuing her passion for Equine Assisted Learning (EAL) despite limited resources. While her husband initially opposed her horse purchases, she pressed forward with determination, using her own funds to pursue her dreams. The move to a new area, despite the distance from her sons and family, provided opportunities to offer support and expertise to those lacking access to urban amenities. Throughout her life, Krystyna confronted fear and adversity head-on, forging ahead with unwavering determination and a commitment to making a difference in the lives of others. Krystyna has written children's books and articles for informational websites. Her articles have been printed on sites in the United Kingdom and the United States. Her New Adult Science Fiction/Fantasy series of "Elanclose", "Aqueous Passage" and "Travertine" introduce her parviscient protagonist characters, and Kisin the antagonist who not unlike the Kisin god displays anger and ruthlessness. www.harmonyfarmequineimity.com FB: Krystyna Faroe Elanclose        Harmony Farm Equineimity Instagram: Harmony Farm Equineimity Elanclose Goodreads: Krystyna Faroe Amazon: Krystyna Faroe Barnes & Noble: Krystyna Faroe Draft2Digital: Krystyna Faroe Smashwords: Krystyna Faroe HubPages: Krystyna Faroe www.krystynafaroe.ca https://www.hostingauthors.com/books/Elanclose

Are giant pandas really just too lazy to breed?  To kick off season six, new hosts Kelsey and Katie are joined by Dr Kirsten Wilson, who has spent her PhD studying panda reproduction with the aim to unlock the predictive power of their pee.  Marking the departure of the panda pair at Edinburgh Zoo, we delve into the quirky biology of these cute and charismatic bears, and get an insight into why it's so difficult to tell whether or not a panda is pregnant.  Join us as we discuss their celebrity status as conservation icons, how their pee is collected from the enclosure floor, their ruthless approach to resources while pregnant, and, above all, learn lessons from their ultimate priorities in life: eating and sleeping.  You can find out more about Kirsten's research here and follow her on Twitter @KirstenW1234. ---------------------- Not Another Science Podcast was co-created by Helena Cornu (@helenacornu) and Tom Edwick (@edwicktom), brought to you by Edinburgh University Science Media (@EUSci). The hosts are Kelsey Tetley-Campbell and Katie Pickup (@_KatiePickup. The logo was designed by Apple Chew (@_applechew), and the cover art was designed by Amy Perks. You can visit our website at www.eusci.org.uk to check out the latest issue of the magazine, a ton of other cool science content by our student journalists, and find out how to get involved. You can also follow EUSci on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter. All podcast episodes can be found at www.eusci.org.uk/podcasts/. Music by Kevin Macleod: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3788-funkorama; http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/a Music by Professor Colin Campbell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZhfAZ-gCEQ&ab_channel=ChemistryEdinburgh

Tian Tian and Yang Guang, the UK's only giant pandas, are leaving Edinburgh Zoo to return to China after ten years on loan. How have things changed during that time?To find out more about Tortoise:- Download the Tortoise app - for a listening experience curated by our journalists- Subscribe to Tortoise+ on Apple Podcasts for early access and exclusive content- Become a member and get access to all of Tortoise's premium audio offerings and moreIf you want to get in touch with us directly about a story, or tell us more about the stories you want to hear about contact hello@tortoisemedia.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good afternoon, I'm _____ with today's episode of EZ News. Tai-Ex opening The Tai-Ex opened down 12-points this morning from yesterday's close, at 17,422 on turnover of $2.06 -billion N-T. The market continued its winning streak on Thursday, joining other regional indexes to close the trading day higher ahead of the release of U-S consumer inflation data. Cabinet Approves Fire Safety Reform Amendments The Cabinet has approved a series of draft amendments to the Fire Services Act aimed at improving fire safety in the workplace The draft amendments were proposed by the Ministry of the Interior and will now be sent to the Legislative Yuan for review. The draft bill adds a provision that imposes a maximum prison sentence of up to seven years on company officials whose failure to formulate and implement a fire safety management plan is deemed responsible for fire-related deaths. The also states that the storing excessive dangerous materials in the workplace in contravention (違反) of related rules resulting in fire-related deaths will result in the same penalty. In the event of serious injuries resulting from a workplace fire, company officials will be liable to a prison term of up to five years. Failure to comply with those regulations is punishable with a maximum fine of between 3 and 10-million N-T. 8 Israeli Hostages Freed from Gaza The Israeli military says a total of eight Israeli hostages have been released from captivity in the Gaza Strip on Thursday. The army said the Red Cross transferred six hostages to Egypt, and they were being brought to Israel to be reunited with their families. Two additional hostages were turned over earlier in the day. It marked the seventh straight night of hostage releases under a cease-fire agreement between Israel and Hamas. Israel was to free 30 Palestinian prisoners later in the evening under the deal. The cease-fire is set to expire early Friday, though international mediators (調解者) are working to extend it. Roughly 140 hostages are believed to remain in Hamas captivity. US Blinken Warning on Gaza Violence Spreading US Secretary of State Antony Blinken has warned efforts must be made to prevent violence in Gaza from enveloping (籠罩) the region. The US' top diplomat met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday. Sally Patterson has more. Giant Pandas Leaving Edinburgh Zoo Visitors to the Edinburgh Zoo had their final chance to see and bid farewell to a pair of popular giant pandas who are returning home to China after more than a decade in Scotland. Yang Guang and Tian Tian are leaving in early December. They have been a popular attraction since people lined the road outside the zoo to greet them when they arrived in 2011. The pair, which are the only pandas in the U.K., are the latest to leave the West after exchange agreements have expired ((期限）終止) and not been renewed by China. That was the I.C.R.T. news, Check in again tomorrow for our simplified version of the news, uploaded every day in the afternoon. Enjoy the rest of your day, I'm _____.

This week on Breaking The News, Des and the teams take a look at the latest out of the UK Covid 19 Inquiry, the return of Black Friday, saying goodbye to the Edinburgh Zoo pandas, the 60th anniversary of Doctor Who, the new president of Argentina and Snooker legend Ronnie O'Sullivan.

Kenneth Steven considers the introduction of wild animals into the Highlands of Scotland, reflecting in poetry at the end of each Essay.A consignment of eight reindeer landed at Clydebank near Glasgow on April 12th in 1952 thanks to a Swedish Sami Mikel Utsi who hailed from a long line of reindeer herders. There were eight reindeer and they were from Mikel Utsi's own family herd in Arctic Sweden. The crossing had taken four days and by all accounts it had been pretty rough. Those first eight beasts spent the next month in quarantine at Edinburgh Zoo and then they completed their journey to Highland Scotland and the area of ground that had been granted for them. There are echoes of the old stories of attempted re-introductions of reindeer: low and wet ground, the prevalence of insects. It took time, but in 1954 Mikel Utsi was given permission for free grazing up to the summits of the northern corries of the Cairngorms: in other words, where they needed to be. Further clusters of reindeer were introduced in 1952, 1954 and 1955. Several hundred reindeer were born in Highland Scotland between 1953 and 1979, that year when Mikel Utsi passed away. Wild reindeer were again living freely in the country that had been theirs centuries before. And the herder who'd brought them here, whose dream had come true, he was able to bring people out into what might just have been another piece of his childhood landscape and tell them of the ways and the stories of the Sami. Presenter Kenneth Steven Producer Mark RickardsA Whistledown Scotland production for BBC Radio 3

Welcome to the Scotland Grows Show, the podcast which celebrates everything that is good in Scottish gardening, as we join gardeners around the country to find out what grows well where they are, and pick up tips and stories along the way.   Simon Jones is a Gardens & Designed Landscapes Manager for the National Trust for Scotland (NTS), managing gardens such as Threave, Culzean, Broughton, Greenbank, Hill House, Geilston, Crarae and Arduaine.    Previously he was Curator of Plants at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland based at Edinburgh Zoo, designing and constructing over 30 exhibits during this time.   Outside his role with NTS, he is a past Vice-President of the Royal Caledonian Horticultural Society, member of the Incorporation of City Gardeners of Glasgow, past Director for Gardening Scotland and now a committee member with Kinghorn Community Land Association.   Look forward in this episode to hearing all about Simon's work with the National Trust for Scotland.   Be sure to sign up to our mailing list so we can let you know when new episodes are published.   Scotland Grows magazine is our digital title which celebrates Scottish gardens and gardens, and drops into your inbox 6 times a year. If you would like to subscribe to receive a copy, just follow this LINK.   You can follow Scotland Grows on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, we'd love to have your company there!   And of course, you can always find your share of gardening goodness on our website at scotlandgrowsmagazine.com. -------------------------------------------- This series is sponsored by ROOTS, a subscription from the National Trust for Scotland which helps both your garden and Trust gardens thrive.   For £6 a month you will be sent a ROOTS pack every six weeks, with gardening gifts, including Scottish seeds six times a year, stories about Scotland's plant life, and tips from  expert Trust gardeners, as well as an invitation to two exclusive ROOTS events a year with the Trust gardens team.   Whether you buy ROOTS for yourself or as a gift for a loved one, your £6 a month will go towards supporting Trust gardens and designed landscapes in Scotland.    Find out more here: www.nts.org.uk/roots

Warren Broon stuck around for the bonus - what a treat. We're chatting a wind up featuring Mr C Lion & Edinburgh Zoo, tattie thieves, overreaching with celebs, who Warren would be in Nuts High and genie bottle wishes.Make sure you subscribe and leave a 5 star review! If you'd like to share the times you've been a resourceful rascal, or want to get in touch, send an email to Hello@RestlessNativesPodcast.comPlease review Global's Privacy Policy: https://global.com/legal/privacy-po

Are you ready to stand tall for giraffe? Some of you may remember that 2 years ago we released an episode all about the wonderful world of the giraffe! Well, since this series we are celebrating all things Africa it felt wrong not to include them, and so we are republishing that episode for you all to enjoy... or maybe for you all to discover for the first time!  So, today Jack is joined by the incredible Julian and Stephanie Fennessy from the Giraffe Conservation Foundation to discuss all things giraffe! The trio discuss their incredible work all across the continent of Africa, the wonderful educations programmes they are running and the practical in the field conservation initiatives that they help to operate!  Since this episode aired originally, Jack has had the pleasure of meeting Julian and Stephanie in real life when they visited Edinburgh Zoo last year - it was an absolute joy! Alongside a trip to Scotland, Julian & Stephanie's calendar has also included a lot of very hard work! The Giraffe Conservation Foundation now works in around 18 countries on anti-poaching campaigns, translocations, surveying, and education. They have just gone from strength to strength and it is an honour to have them on the show! (Originally aired on 21/06/2021 as '17. Stick Your Neck Out for Giraffe') Useful Links Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠ & ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠! We are @PangolinPodcast

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2022 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the first digital benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends January 31st 2023. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.castlehoward.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/abbi-ollive-411509171/https://www.channel4.com/programmes/castle-howard-through-the-seasonsCastle Howard's love story with China - as told by Abbigail Ollive Transcriptions: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with, visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson.In today's episode, I speak with my very first returning guest, Abbigail Ollive, Head of Marketing, Sales, and Programming at Castle Howard, the stately home and visitor attraction in North Yorkshire. Abbi takes us on a journey through the seasons at Castle Howard as she explains just what it's like to film a TV production at a visitor attraction as she shares her advice for other attractions that are thinking about doing the same.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the user channels by searching Skip the Queue.I am very excited to have Abbigail Ollive back on the podcast today.Abbigail Ollive: To be the first returner. It mustn't have put you off too much first time round.Kelly Molson: Well, I think it's more like I didn't put you off, because you were episode six of season one, which was all the way back in 2019. And I didn't ask people icebreaker questions then, so you might regret this after this. Who knows? First one, what is the strangest or worst gift that you've ever received?Abbigail Ollive: Last Christmas, my partner basically took Christmas as an opportunity to solve anything I'd been moaning about. So my Christmas presents were things like those little hand warmers, because I'd obviously been complaining that my hands were cold. And I'd been complaining about my drive to work here at Castle Howard in rural North Yorkshire sometimes being a little bit hairy. So my Christmas present was winter tires and a four by four driving experience to try, which at the time I was like, I really would've loved a baking experience or a pizza making course or something, and I was pretty grumpy about going.But it actually turned out to be a really excellent gift and I had a fab time. I feel like I'm qualified now to drive people through a field or through a stream if they need, and I know how to use my ridiculous rural vehicle. So I was a bit grumpy about it, because I was like, it's very kind but it feels like you really wanted to come and do this.Kelly Molson: It's quite thoughtful though, isn't it? That's quite a well thought out gift.Abbigail Ollive: I guess so.Kelly Molson: He's been listening. He's just interpreted it in a slightly more original way than you were expecting.Abbigail Ollive: See, that sounds very ungrateful, doesn't it? And I did have a fab time, but I have dropped some hints this year about... I guess I've decided to complain about different stuff. In case that gets resolved in a different way.Kelly Molson: I'm running out of mascara.Abbigail Ollive: My shoulders are really tense. I think a massage might really help me this year.Kelly Molson: Like it. Yeah, I'm running out of mascara, if anyone's listening. I need some of that on my shopping list. Spa day would be excellent. My shoulders feel tense too. I like this subtle hint dropping.If you could only listen to one album for the rest of your life, what would it be?Abbigail Ollive: Whenever people ask me like, what's your taste in music? It's just very eclectic. And at the minute I am listening on repeat to Self Esteem, who I think is just amazing. I don't know if you are at all familiar with her. She's called Rebecca, she's from Rotherham, where my dad is from. I don't think many pop stars have come out of Rotherham, South Yorkshire. But give her album a listen.We saw her at a festival when she was quite up and coming, and she's just done Jools Holland and is now on a bigger tour next year. We booked again to see her. And it's just hugely empowering. I think for younger women, teenagers kind of finding their way through what can be quite a complex time, I just think her lyrics and her whole approach to empowerment is really, really inspiring.I don't know whether that'd be the one I'd listened to forever, but it is on repeat in my car on my journey to work constantly at the moment. And that's my top tip I think. Give her a listen. She's very cool.Kelly Molson: Did you combine that album with the off-road driving as well at the weekend to give you a little bit of an extra boost?Abbigail Ollive: No, I think maybe empowerment but, yes. Women driving through fields in pickups.Kelly Molson: Awesome. Good response. Okay, final one. If you could bring back any fashion trend, what would it be?Abbigail Ollive: I think I was meant to be in the 1950s. I think that kind of grease styling is... I'd love to just look like that every day, really, if I could get away with it and if I had time to properly do my hair in rollers and all of that jazz. I think that's the period I'd probably go back to and I think be quite into, that sort of retro 50s. Really bright. I like the bright, vibrant... I'd happily drive an American pink Cadillac through the country roads of North Yorkshire.Kelly Molson: I remember this about you. You're all about colour. I do remember this about you when we met in person. You love a colour and you love a patterned dress, an excellently patterned dress.Abbigail Ollive: Yeah, I do. And I wish I could suit a hat better. Some people are like... My brother's always in a very cool hat, but I just don't suit it. I think it's the fringe. The fringe, glasses, hat combo is one I can't pull off.Kelly Molson: Fringe with a wooly hat is really difficult, isn't it? Because it just pushes it down into your eyes. I'd like to be a hat person as well. I feel like people that wear hats, they just exude confidence. Do you know what I mean? Just have that... They walk with confidence. They walk high with a hat on. I'd quite like that too.That's good choices. All right, what about your unpopular opinion, Abbi, because we've never had one of these from you.Abbigail Ollive: No, we haven't. And I'm sure I've got plenty I could share, I mean, my initial instinct with this was, I would never be upset if I didn't ever hear an Oasis song again, but that's not the one I'm going to go with. Sorry.It's a podcast related one. I thought I'd be topical. I really hate comedians on podcasts. I just can't be doing with all the trying to be funny and all the chat in between what it is they're actually meant to be talking about. I love the foodie podcast, but I just want them to cut to the chase and I want to hear somebody talk about something they're knowledgeable about. Maybe I just don't really comedians in general, but on a podcast that's my unpopular opinion.Kelly Molson: Do you think it's because they're trying a bit too hard because that's their job and they're trying to... If a supplier comes on and they're trying to plug their thing, they're trying to plug their I'm funny, really?Abbigail Ollive: I think it's just like... I was going to try and not name names, but I'm quite a foodie and I like a foodie podcast and I think maybe I've realized that actually I want to hear about the food and not all the chat that surrounds it. So yeah, comedians on podcasts.Kelly Molson: All right, good one. Glad I'm not funny or I'd be right [inaudible 00:06:53].Abbigail Ollive: Well, I'm not either, so we'll have no comedy. We'll just get the questions.Kelly Molson: That's it. We're done now. We're done with anything humorous for the rest of the episode. Excellent. Thanks for setting the tone.Abbi, just for our listeners that don't know of you, I'm sure there's not many, tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do.Abbigail Ollive: I at the moment am very fortunate to be kind of running the visitor attraction side of things at Castle Howard. So anybody who hasn't heard of Castle Howard, Castle Howard is a stately home in North Yorkshire. It was designed by Sir John Vanbrugh in 1699, so it's a historic house open as a visitor attraction, but also sits within a 9,000 acre estate. It's still home to the Howard family, they are directly my line managers, and Castle Howard's opened 364 days a year as an attraction.But I think it's also a really interesting place. I arrived here knowing that I was coming to be involved in a visitor attraction, but I think maybe it was more of a pleasant surprise that we're actually foresters and farmers and we have a holiday park and holiday cottages and a farm shop and a garden centre and all the catering and retail outlets as well.I think in total it's nine different businesses, and my role kind of heads up marketing and events and programming and sales and that kind of visitor experience side of things. I'm not actually being asked to be responsible for the farming and forestry, you'll be relieved to hear, but it's also just unlocks so many stories that as a marketer at heart, I guess, is really exciting on a daily basis.We're not a charity, so all the income generated by footfall and visitors paying for an admission ticket goes directly into the restoration and heritage of the building and the listed landscape.I've been here for just over five years, so I'm just in the middle of Christmas number six. It's a joyous time to be at a place like Castle Howard, when it's all decked out for Christmas and we're welcoming literally thousands of visitors a day over this festive season.Big day today. It's a kind of rainy, North Yorkshire, midweek day, but we've got 11 coaches here and they're all having a fabulous time. And I've just had a message saying, can someone come and help with the Queues in the bauble emporium? So that's the kind of thing that can occur on an hourly basis.But yeah, I'm Yorkshire, so I haven't actually moved very far. Not deliberately, but just because stuff's come up here, and it's a gorgeous place in the world to be. I've got a little boy, so living in the countryside and having quite an outdoorsy life really suits us. My background's in theatre, but theatre marketing and comms, so did 10 years in theater before moving across into visitor attractions, which is just a theatre of a different kind, I think.Kelly Molson: It is. It's a show, isn't it? You're creating a theatre for people that come and visit. And that leads us a little bit to what we're going to talk about today, really, a show of a slightly different kind.I think there's been a bit of a run of programs like this. I'm talking about programs like the Secret Life of the Zoo at Chester Zoo, Inside the Zoo, Edinburgh Zoo. There's been quite a lot of zoo related TV programs on recently that give you a bit of a snapshot of behind the scenes. I think One Zoo Three was the other one from Paradise Wildlife Park. But you have been involved in shooting TV programs for Channel 4, called Castle Howard: Through the Seasons. Tell us a little bit about what the TV series is, and then tell us what on earth made you decide to be part of a TV program.Abbigail Ollive: I suppose dialing back a little bit from the TV show we've just been making this year is... I guess Castle Howard's one of the original screen tourism destinations and has been in some pretty iconic period dramas. It's very well known as Brideshead Revisited, both the 1981 Granada TV show and then the later movie in 2008. And we had our Bridgerton moment, so series one, episode six, or episode sex, as most people know it in Bridgerton, was all films here at Castle Howard. And I could definitely tell you plenty of stories from that few weeks of my life that I'll never forget.But I think we're kind of used to being a location, and Castle Howard plays its own part in a period drama. It's almost a character in its own rights, and we've been in plenty of them. And we've also filmed the Arctic Monkeys music video here from their most recent album, and we've also played host to an American TV reality show, which was... I describe it as kind of Love Island with a Regency twist, which recently someone said should be the name of a cocktail, which I [inaudible 00:11:57]. That was an American reality TV show.But I think it's the first time then that we've actually considered seriously and gone ahead with us being the subject of what is being filmed, and I think that's the big difference really for us with an observational documentary or, ob doc, as it's known in the business.There were a few things really that made us decide to go ahead with that, and you've mentioned already a couple of those really reassuring series that happened, mostly zoo related, that made us feel like actually there's a real warmth and positivity to how they're not trying to stitch you up, they're trying to tell a really positive story about your people and your attraction.I think that's maybe changed over the last few years. So we'd seen Chatsworth go first really, they opened their doors and did a year in the life at Chatsworth, and that actually ended up being during the pandemic, so it was a very unusual year in the life of Chatsworth, in that a lot of the time it was during lockdown. But even through that challenging period of time, when we watched it as viewers, we could see that that team had really taken a lot of care to tell Chatsworth stories and to be really respectful and positive about the whole estate.I think that that was a huge reassurance for us. I think in the past I've had loads of filming inquiries over my time here and we've really avoided the sort of fly on the wall documentaries. I think there's been a general perception and nervousness that they want to stitch you up. And also, for me, the format only really works if you have the buy-in and the involvement of Nick and Vicky Howard, who are the custodians of this place, and have them authentically involved. And I think they had seen in years gone by maybe some not so positive examples and that had put them off the idea.I think we started talking to the ITN team who'd been working with Chatsworth during the pandemic, and it was a real slow burn. It was about building that relationship and having meetings with them, them getting to know me and the Howards, and talking really about what the stories were that we wanted to tell.They came to us originally as part of their Christmas series they were doing, so last year when we had Narnia as our Christmas theme, they made a four part series across four different houses and we were one of those, so it was a more intensive Christmas at Castle Howard experience first off, and that's been quite different to then them coming back and being here all year.But I think it's definitely, I'd say, we said no quite a lot before eventually we said maybe, and then over the course of probably a year of meetings and building trust and really bottoming out what we all want to get out of it, we eventually said yes. And I think in that time as well we'd seen things released like Secret Life at the Zoo.I think our other main concern or nervousness about saying yes was we were sort of waiting for a vintage year at Castle Howard. We knew that coming out of the pandemic, everything's been challenging and difficult and we felt like, maybe next year or in a couple years time we'll be doing a really big significant bit of restoration to a monument or we've got plans to reinstate some of our burnt out rooms after the fire that Castle Howard suffered during the war.I think we felt like there's going to be a big story to tell, and we better hold off for that moment in Castle Howard's history before we let the TV cameras in. And I think actually what changed that was the pandemic and thinking, well, actually, in any kind of normal or abnormal year we have amazing people, we have amazing stories to tell. Sometimes it's those smaller stories of truly getting under the skin of the life in a country estate like this that viewers will ultimately really enjoy. So we stopped holding off for that perfect moment and went for it.Kelly Molson: It's interesting though, because you're thinking about, I guess, once you agree to go ahead with something like this, you are thinking constantly about, how entertaining is this actually going to be? Is just our day to day stuff that goes on all the time, is that enough for people? Are they going to actually tune in and watch it? And how is that going to... I guess there's a thought all the time about how we're going to be portrayed and how will that come across. So if you hold out for this room needs renovation or looking after, that gives you a focus that will detract from just some of the normal stuff that would be happening.Abbigail Ollive: We actually started with ITN and Channel 4 in 2020, and we were trying to pull off a Christmas in the middle of COVID. When the tiering system and all that business came in, we couldn't go ahead, like many attractions and houses. So we started making a TV program about... I was billed on this... I was definitely shown as head of saving Christmas, and then we had to cancel it, so we canceled the whole thing and we took the difficult decision actually that it wasn't going to be the show we wanted it to be. We mutually agreed, really, to pull out of that, because we didn't want a show about trying to make a big Christmas happen and then the government saying, "You're in the wrong tier, you can't open," and a show of about how disappointing that was. So we took that decision.Actually, that was a gamble at the time because I thought maybe that would be that done, really, but they agreed to come back the following year and make Christmas in Narnia as a documentary. I think it's definitely had its ups and downs over quite a period of time. So, again, that build of trust and them getting to know us during the year that didn't happen. I think they saw enough potential to think, actually, we'll come back and go again. But all of that's really challenging when they and us have put budget and resource into a whole period of filming that we then pull the plug on.Kelly Molson: Yeah, of course. And by no fault of your own. Actually, there was nothing that you really could do about it. You made the right decision at the time.I guess I just want to step back a little bit, because you said that you... I can't remember if you said that you were approached by them or if you approached them to talk about it, and how do you work out what the focus of the TV show will be about?Abbigail Ollive: I'd been approached by quite a number of observational documentary companies, and I'd met with quite a few, and it was this exec producer who'd been working with Chatsworth, and we'd seen a bit of what they'd done at Chatsworth, that made us agree and further that conversation with this particular production company, which is ITN for Channel 4.We've been approached a lot, and continue to be, actually, and I think, like you said, at the beginning, there's a real rise, isn't there, in these sort of observational documentaries at places within the visitor attractions sector. So we didn't actively go out to try and do this, I suppose we were courted and approached and took a little bit of persuading.Kelly Molson: I guess everyone that's going to be part of this has to be really comfortable with being on camera, right, because they're going to be recording for a whole year at your venue, so you've got to get used to people being around, you've got to be able to run your events around while all this filming is happening as well. So it's not a quick decision to make at all by any means.Abbigail Ollive: No, there's a lot to think about, actually. And I think we made sure we'd properly thought about that and met and bashed a lot of that out internally before we started. I think the things that made us most nervous were around control and editorial control and how much of that you just have to relinquish and how much we would be allowed to input into the storytelling and storyboarding. I think there was that, but also the ability for us to resource it.Like you've said, it's no small thing to take on. We're quite a small team, we're still doing everything we need to do in a normal year, pulling off big events and big projects, and having a film crew with you three to four days a week every week of pretty much a year, is quite intense.I think what we tried to do to overcome that was before anybody had a camera put in front of them, we tried to do a really good amount of kickoff meetings with all stakeholders, with the producers. We were really, really clear with them about our ambitions and the key messages we wanted to communicate by having a year in the life at Castle Howard filmed. It was an opportunity for us to communicate that real conservation aim and the fact we have a conservation deficit, we're not a charity, it was a really good opportunity for us to communicate where visitors' admission fees go.It's really powerful to actually see somebody restoring a chimney or repainting windows, and understand what resource has to go into that. And that's across the board, across the whole estate. So I think sometimes that's hard to communicate, actually, with visitors, but having this mass market platform to do that.We were really, really clear about what we wanted to get out of it and what actually goes into running a rural estate and managing that in the 21st century coming out of the pandemic with all the wider world landscape going on as well around us. That was really important, actually, that we felt respected and like the TV crew and their producers understood what we wanted to get out of it. I think that's really helped throughout the whole year, that they can go, "This scene that we're filming now, that really relates and helps tell that story from your objectives." So yeah, that was certainly helpful.Kelly Molson: That's great, isn't it? That they're so aligned with your objectives that they're actually highlighting things that reference back to them as you're shooting. Because sometimes you might think that gets discussed at the top and then it gets parked and then we might not think about that again until it gets to editing stage and by that point there's so much content, how are they going to really get the message across that we want them to? And I guess that comes forward to one of the questions about that content and the editing process and how much of that were you involved in as you go through the filming.You've had those initial conversations about objectives, but were there any times where something was happening and they were shooting, and in your head you're watching this thing unfold in front of you going, "This cannot go out on telly, and they're really going to want this to go out on telly and that's not going to happen at all"?Abbigail Ollive: That has changed throughout the year. We've all learned a lot as the year has progressed. We started very structured and I planned out everything to within an inch of it's life. For last Christmas I kind of diarised everything the film crew were going to be attending, made sure we had pre-meetings with everybody involved, made sure departments were all on board and had key messages and understood what we were trying to get out of every scene. I pretty much storyboarded the whole episode, and I remember the producer saying to me, "We don't normally get quite this level of input from the team on the ground."I think I'm just a bit of a control freak, because I can't have people just wandering around with a camera, who knows what they'll discover. But actually I think what I quickly discovered is that that doesn't always make the best TV, and they're experts, they're really good at what they do, and I just needed to learn to trust that we were all actually aiming for the same outcome. They weren't trying to sneak around and find stuff that I didn't want to be filmed.Actually, as the year's gone on, I think by the time we got to the Christmas episode, which they only left last week and are busy editing that now to turn it around, they knew the Castle Howard team so well and our team knew the Channel 4 team so well and are so used to them being around, it just has needed a lot less input from me and my team. They really had a sense of workflows around who's responsible for what. They felt like an extension of our team as the year has gone on and we've really built that trust, so I had no issue then with them kind of going off and filming something happening without me being present, because I'd learned to really trust them. I can't really do this chat without mentioning Peacockgate.Kelly Molson: Please.Abbigail Ollive: I think that's an example really early on where it was a day where on my schedule we were having a historic paint specialist scraping off layers of the paint on Castle Howard's windows to try and discover what the original amber colour would be, because we're now in the process of repainting all of the external woodwork, which needed doing, and white paint didn't actually exist then and so was never the colour that Castle Howard would've been painted on the windows and woodwork.We had this amazing guy doing his historical paint scraping, which is what I had the Channel 4 crew focused on, because I thought that would make a very interesting restoration story. And then got the call from World War III that appeared to be kicking off in the car park because it was breeding season for our peacocks. We've got about 20 peacocks on the estate and, well, we think there was a male interloper to our peacock gang. I don't know where he came from, but this male peacock was very rowdy and very randy, and was seeing his reflection in cars, so in the visitor car park. Any kind of car, especially if it was a dark colour or blue and was clean. So luckily my car was always very safe, it's never clean. It was seeing its reflection and trying to attack what it thought was a rival peacock.I've got the person who looks after our security on high alert trying to basically chase a peacock out of the car park, and people very concerned that both staff cars and visitor cars were going to get damaged. So this was all kicking off and I was like, "Right, everybody keep the Channel 4 team focused on the windows. Do not let them come anywhere near what's occurring up here." Because I could see our head garden running around with what can only be described as a giant butterfly net, like something a Victorian explorer, trying to literally catch and net a peacock.Anyway, it escalated fairly quickly and the peacock got onto one of our staff cars and smashed in the back windscreen. So it became actually not that funny quite quickly, because then we were suddenly into a really difficult scenario. The person involved was very upset, as you can imagine, and from an animal welfare point of view we didn't want to do anything to the peacock that... This is during visitor opening hours and, of course, on the day where we had the Rolls Royce Society coming on a trip. So we then suddenly had to pull off people from various parts of the attraction to go and be Rolls Royce security. They didn't even notice the peacock, they thought we were giving them such an amazing service, they were delighted. They couldn't believe the amount of security we have in our car park.So, all this was kicking off, and we had a couple of emergency senior management meetings assembled that day to decide what ultimately the different options were. And in this meeting we discussed what should we do about the Channel 4 film crew, and everybody's instinct was, we're now involved with insurers, the insurers are saying, "It's a wild animal, so we can't really help you." But we'd just put on social media in National Gardening Week the week before that the head gardener has names for all the peacocks and has hand reared them, so there was kind of an insurance argument going on.We love the peacocks, and visitors absolutely love the peacocks, and they make Castle Howard really unique, so it's really difficult when you've told that story.It was like Jurassic Park, I'm not joking. It was absolutely carnage. All the peacocks then got wind of the fact that someone was trying to catch one of the crew and they started... There's a video from inside the main house, which Nick Howard took, of them all lined up on the windows pecking the glass. And I was thinking, they're now going to actually smash in the windows. They just went feral.But in this meeting we had this big debate then. This is all quite unusual, I guess, maybe not on a Tuesday in whatever it was, April, May. And I brought it up in this meeting, I said, "What are we going to do about Channel 4? We're not going to be able to keep this secret, really. We have to decide whether it's something where happy to let them film and cover, what's it's reality, it's what's going on."And Vicky Howard, to her credit, she said, "I think it's going to make excellent TV. If you're doing a year in the life at Castle Howard, you want to show some of the slightly more quirky things that go on." And it was reality, it was what happening. So we made the call to their exec producer and explained what was going on, and then obviously you won't be surprised to hear in episode one, which was aired week before last, the historic restoration of the windows does not make the cut, but the whole story of the peacock, which went from the sublime to the ridiculous over the next few days, does make the cut, and we've now got peacock merchandise in the gift shop for Christmas, and he's famous.Kelly Molson: You capitalised on every element. I love it.Abbigail Ollive: Yeah, we have. I think that's a good example. You've asked how... At the point where we go, I think we need to relinquish control. I can't storyboard this within an inch of its life. I can't actually control everything I want them to film. And this is going to make great TV.Kelly Molson: I mean, it makes great TV, but it also makes a great talk. I'm not going to lie listeners, I have heard this story before and I had to go on to speak after Abbi shared this with the room, so you can imagine just how my talk bummed the room. Outdone by a peacock. Thank you.Abbigail Ollive: I didn't think we were doing Secret life of the Zoo here, but as it turned out.Kelly Molson: Who knew? It's a brilliant story. I think what you said is, you just at some point have to relinquish control, because it is going to make good telly. It's a bonkers thing that happened that day, you had no way of... There was no part of planning that that was going to happen. It wasn't a normal thing that happens every day. Yes, you've got peacocks, but they don't normally go feral and start smashing up cars. What could have made for a better TV moment than that?Other than Peacockgate, is there anything else that surprised you about the process of the filming?Abbigail Ollive: Maybe that the people you think are going to be great characters sometimes aren't, and those who are really reluctant to feature and would naturally run a mile if you try to put them in front of a TV camera, often make the best TV. I think finding your stars and the really authentic people who are incredibly passionate about what they do. And in a place like Castle Howard those are people around every corner, people who are been working here for four generations and have amazing passion and connection with the place. And then those people who have really unusual skills, like my paint specialist, or people who are just doing incredibly niche things.I think it's not hard to find the stories, but I think it was that, really. There were people who I was trying to navigate the cameras away from and then there was really willing people who... I put myself in that category, I didn't mind at all being on film, but I think I just come across as a Blue Peter presenter, and actually there are funnier, more authentic, lovely people shining through on the series that we had to coerce a little bit more into being involved.I think that, again, it all comes back to the thing I said earlier about building trust. Our producers had a really good instinct for that. I think they managed really skillfully to get under the skin of the organisation, and by relinquishing control a bit and letting them do what they do really well and trusting their judgment, they ended up putting some of our people and scenarios and stories on TV that I definitely wouldn't have storyboarded, I don't think.Kelly Molson: I guess we talked about editing and control and stuff and relinquishing that a little bit earlier, but the series is out now, we'll give everyone the dates and we'll tell them where they can find it in a little while, but did you get the opportunity to watch it before it's been out live for people?Abbigail Ollive: It was a really small team of us who had a low res proof and we were allowed to, within the contract, check all of the facts and also have an opinion and push back on anything we thought might be reputationally damaging. And actually we changed a few facts and corrected people on some stuff. But I think we've been really pleased, actually, with the way in which it was edited and we haven't pushed back all that much.I think being able to watch it and absorb it a couple of times before giving the sign off, has been a really helpful layer. There were no massive surprises then when it's aired to a million people on TV, because there's already been a layer of fact checking. For me, that's about making sure people's job titles are correct or they're referred to in the right way. I don't want someone to have put a lot of time and effort into a filming sequence and then be called the wrong thing or credited in the wrong way, so I had that layer of editorial input. But ultimately what ends up in and what ends up not in is totally up to them.I think that's just one of the learnings, really. It's about managing people's expectations. The dog festival we do every year is a good example. We spent a whole weekend, and actually the weeks leading up to it, covering that as a story and lots of filming, lots of people being asked to do bits on camera and the various suppliers and providers we had at that big event, and it didn't make the cut at all. It's just because if they're here for the whole year, they decide, probably because of the peacock, actually, but they decide what flows in terms of their narrative, and we have to just manage people's expectations in that. Helpful for me to see it, so I can also do that, because I don't want everyone sat at home on a Saturday night watching for their bit and me knowing it's not in there.Kelly Molson: God, can you imagine? So you imagine that your paint history guy ready for his big moment, and then the peacock takes over. Yeah, that's an awful.Abbigail Ollive: I think internal communication, and I'm sort spending a lot of time, or have spent a lot of time, persuading people to be involved in filming, and then I have to do the bit of time explaining to people that, thanks for going above and beyond to organise that thing so we could film it, actually it's now not in the show.But I think one of the other things that it's maybe, I don't know if it's a surprise or not, but Castle Howard and a year in the life here is a microcosm for what's happening in the real world. And one of the other things we discussed quite a bit off camera as a senior team was how much we sugarcoat our narrative and want to look amazing and brilliant and positive, and in the end we decided it's better to be really transparent. You see our senior management team then in meetings with the cameras in the room, talking about how visitor numbers haven't been what we forecasted over the summer and cost of living crisis and the things that are happening in the real world.Because I think the risk was is that people would maybe watch this and think, "Well, they've got no grip on reality and what the challenges are that people are facing." So I think we had to just be very authentic and real.And we did debate that quite a lot, actually, because it's perhaps a slightly more exposing or brave thing to go, "Well, yeah, come into the senior management meeting, we're going to discuss the figures, we're going to discuss the reforecast. This is why we think numbers have perhaps dropped off. This is what we're going to do about it." And I think, hopefully, that gives viewers the sense of what goes into the running of the business.You see our, amazingly, they agreed to be filmed, you see our Ukrainian refugee family arriving in an estate cottage next week on the autumn episode, and it reflects what's happening on the estate here is what's happening in the rest of the world. And unbelievably as well, some of it's, like you said, some of it's luck and you couldn't plan exactly where the cameras were going to be at what point, but they were filming a senior management meeting at the moment where the announcement came through of the Queen's death, so they film the reaction to that as it's happening. And that could have happened at 10:00 at night when nobody was even in the building.Some of it is luck and a lot is planned, but it really is a reflection, I think, on the mood of the nation and what else is happening in the wider sector and political landscape and everything else. So I think, again, how I approached it was, we've got all these great stories to tell and this is who I want in it and what I want to feature, but actually as life happens and as the year progressed, you couldn't have planned half the things that have ended up in the show.Kelly Molson: No, not at all. But it does give it that authenticity about this is real, this is actually happening and this is our lives. It's not just a TV show.One thing that struck me, actually, was, when I was watching, there was a moment where one of the senior management teams said, "Look, I think we rule out the fact that overseas visitors are not coming. That's it." And it really made me think back about the last time you came on the podcast, which was in 2019, and when you came on then it was talking about the love affair that Castle Howard has with China and the amount of visitors that were driving through from a famous wedding that you'd had at the castle. And I just thought that is a complete and utter contrast, isn't it, to the things that we are now talking about now and that process and that experience that you've been through to get to this point.Abbigail Ollive: Because some of those foundations that we've really relied upon in terms of generating income, like our Chinese market, when that rug's pulled from under you, I think it's made us be maybe a bit more brave and risk taking in grasping opportunities that maybe we wouldn't have done in 2019. And I'd say this filming project is one of those, I absolutely put that in the category. We're in a position where we know some of those income streams aren't coming back, so putting ourselves in front of a huge audience and grasping that PR opportunity this year, I think is a direct result of how the world's changed in the last couple of years.Kelly Molson: Yeah, for sure. So, reflecting on the experience that you've been through, and it has literally just finished, you said that that they're now hastily editing the Christmas episode to go out soon, or winter episode, what advice would you give to other attractions that are thinking maybe we'll do it, maybe we'll start to have those conversations?Abbigail Ollive: Hopefully got a few nuggets. And also really happy to talk to anybody who is in the process of going into this, having now had some lived experience of it. But I think if you're open to filming in the first place, having clear contact details on the website. For location filming, and obviously this kind of thing as well, we produced a filming brochure, which is a PDF and a physical brochure, to kind of sell Castle Howard. Whilst this observational documentary obviously came to us as an opportunity, we're actively trying to sell ourselves as a filming location.I think reaching out to... If you've watched a program and you've really loved it, there's always credits at the end and you can kind of say, "Well, that's a really good example of something I'd love to replicate in my own workplace," and tracking down those people and setting up meetings and chats.Obviously we're part of the treasure houses group, there's 10 treasure houses that are privately owned stately homes in the country and we do a lot as a collective. We're attending a filming exhibition in London together called Focus in a couple of weeks time, and, as a group, making sure we're in those places, meeting the location managers, meeting the people in the industry, starting to form those relationships.The Christmas series this year that Channel 4 are doing, again, it features of the treasure houses and different ones to last year, so we're a repeat, I guess, in that it's winter for us, it's not necessarily just about Christmas. But then you'll see [inaudible 00:41:26] and Holkham as well. And Holkham were kind of going at it second time round, and Harewood for the first time.We've shared a lot of knowledge and talked a lot really about how we've approached it. And I've been a real advocate for it. I've encouraged those other houses, sorry, they might hate me for it now, to go for it, because we'd had such a positive experience last year with the team filming. I can vouch for the fact that they want to work with us and we're all pulling in the same direction.I think for us as well, my other bits of advice are, maximising the opportunity once it's happened. So making sure SEOs all working really hard for you. Making sure as soon as... We had to basically open all those doors to our website, because when a million people are watching you on Channel 4 on a Saturday night, we didn't want the website crashing. We wanted really clear calls to action about booking for Christmas and booking the cottages and campsite. Anything we can sell. When there's that opportunity of that many people Googling you, we wanted to make sure we were ready for it.We were also really aware that a lot of the people watching the TV show wouldn't necessarily be in the area or region and could just buy an admission ticket. We hope when the Christmas show goes out on the 3rd of December it will sell any final tickets remaining. It certainly did last year, but we've this year decided to do a virtual experience that people can buy, so we'll probably have that on sale to coordinate with the Christmas TV show going out. So for those people who are overseas or who can't get to Castle Howard this Christmas, there'll be a virtual tour, obviously inspired by places like London Transport Museum, who do their Hidden London tours, and plenty of theatre events do similar and do it really well.And then for us, maximising the press and PR opportunities that come out of the exposure. And then my other advice is the boring stuff, really. Making sure everything is covered from insurance and how we protect our assets. Having really clear guidelines for when the film crew's in the house, what they are and aren't permitted to do. Having all those access arrangements and risk assessments all agreed up front. So there's a leak on the roof, of course the film crew are going to want to be up on the roof at the moment when that happens, and you haven't got time to go through the whole process of doing a risk assessment and talking about insurance at that point. So it's kind of trying to think about all the scenarios up front and making sure all of that paperwork was done. So that's the boring stuff.And then communication, just communication, communication, you can't over communicate it. I found people get really grumpy if you turn up with a TV crew whilst they're busy in the middle of something highly important or some kind of high risk job, and I'm like, "Could we film you?" It generally doesn't go down brilliantly, so I've been an absolute stuck record in every meeting I've been in this year where I've been asking, "Can Channel 4 film it? Can Channel 4 film it?"And then making sure people are wearing something appropriate if I know people are going in to film them, like properly branded uniforms, and just giving people a heads up so they know that it's likely they're doing a thing as part of their day and I'm going to be along with a TV crew.But actually what's happened then is as the year has progressed, people have come forward more and more with opportunities. So people start letting me know, "We're doing a acorn picking," was one thing. I would never have known there was an acorn picking initiative going on in the forestry department. So people have been coming forward to me, and I've now got this brilliant content army of people letting me know what's going on in their week ahead, and they're actively thinking all the time, "This might make a great story for the TV." So I think you can't over communicate stuff.And then the final thing, which has been my mantra, it's absolutely obvious, but if you don't say it on camera, they can't put it on TV.Kelly Molson: Such simple advice.Abbigail Ollive: Simple advice.Kelly Molson: Abbi, this is going to be one of my favourite podcast episodes ever. You are always so generous with the advice that you give and the support that you give to the sector. So thank you for saying that you will help people and you're happy to talk to them. I think that's really amazing. We will put all of your details in the show notes so people can find out about you. But if you're not watching it already, how do we find out about the show? Where can we watch it?Abbigail Ollive: Yes, it's called Castle Howard: Through the Seasons. It's a Channel 4 production, so it's going out on Saturday nights, but more likely you'll be able to catch it with it on all four watch on demand. I'm sure it's something that will get repeated variously across the years, because that's great. They're busy repeating, I think, Chatsworth's documentary at the moment as well, and there's one happening at Highclere, and I think these things just kind of have quite a long shelf life actually, so hopefully you'll be able to watch it on demand way into the future, embarrassingly.Kelly Molson: For sure. Without a doubt. Abbi, we always ask our guests to share a book with us before they leave, something that they love or something that they've just enjoyed as part of their career or personal. What would you like to share with us?Abbigail Ollive: In my life outside of Castle Howard, I do a lot of baking and cooking. We have a little family business and cafe, so I'm a crazy baking lady some nights for that. But actually, it was difficult to choose, because I've got a whole amazing shelf of cookbooks that I use very regularly, but Sabrina Ghayour, who has recently released Persiana Everyday. I absolutely love Middle Eastern cooking, and I'm not really sure where this passion came from, but I think that particular book I've been using a lot recently, because it's good, quick recipes, they're really reliable, and they're brilliant midweek, not overly complex when you've got your store cupboard of ingredients sorted.But I actually chose this because it's something that... Our Channel 4 producer who's been with us for a year, Hannah, and I massively bonded over food, both being foodies, and I actually invited Sabrina to our press launch at Castle Howard because she's recently moved to the area, and funnily enough, I got a tweet, I got a DM tweet from Sabrina Ghayour saying, "You work at Castle Howard? I love Castle Howard." And I was like, "Oh my god, I mean, I love you. I've got your book and use it all the time. I can't believe you're trying to befriend me." So I invited her along to the press launch and she came, and Hannah, Channel 4 Hannah, and I had a proper fangirl moment of just basically going, "We really love your recipes." So it felt like a good, relevant, irrelevant one, although there were plenty I could have chosen.Kelly Molson: Oh my god, I am so with you on this. I have all of her bits except this one. Maybe I'll enter myself.Abbigail Ollive: Good Christmas present. Good Christmas-Kelly Molson: Yeah, there you go. They are the books I go to if we're having people over for dinner, or every New Year's Eve we cook a feast for the two of us, it would be three of us now, but we cook an absolute feast, and it's always lamb and it's always something incredibly delicious from one of her books. I think would've fangirled a little bit too.Abbigail Ollive: I know. And she uses our farm shop a lot, obviously, because we have estate tenant farmers, and I think it's really brilliant to champion that field to fork message. And if you're going to eat meat, it's brilliant that it's local. It's such a treat for me to be able to have a farm shop at work where I can and get that from. So yeah.Kelly Molson: Amazing. All right, well, look, listeners, as ever, if you want to be in with a chance of winning that book, if you go over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with, "I want Abbi's books, book even", you will be in with a chance of winning it.This is the second cookbook that we've had on the podcast recently as well. There's a little trend here. I'm getting a little message [inaudible 00:49:33].Abbigail Ollive: The other one that I was close, is when I was on holiday recently, I read, I'm sure somebody must have recommended it, the Bob Iger book, The Ride of a Lifetime, because he was the CEO of Disney for 15 years, and this week's just been announced that he's back at Disney after retirement. Not to go on as a prize, but for anybody working visitor attractions I found it a really inspiring read. The last paragraph of, well, sorry, the last chapter, really, is his bullet points of the kind of things he lived by whilst running Disney. I'm going to do the old school thing where I print it out and stick it on my wall. So that's just a top tip for the sector. I'm sure most people have read it and I'm, as usual, three years behind the trend.Kelly Molson: No, it not been recommended, though. It definitely has not come up on our... No, I will check our library list, but I am positive that that hasn't come up yet. But you can't win that one, it has to be Sabrina, because you will fully appreciate the cookbook. Trust me.Abbi, thanks so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure.Abbigail Ollive: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight, as always, to talk to you, and I do feel so honoured to be second time round.Kelly Molson: My absolute pleasure. You're always such a treat when you come on, and I genuinely am so grateful for all the support and advice that you give to people. So thank you.Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned.Kelly Molson: Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.. 

Good News: Brazil’s election results bode well for the protection of the Amazon rainforests, Link HERE. The Good Word: A brilliantly inspirational quote for your day! Good To Know: An odd fact about one particular penguin in the Edinburgh Zoo… Good News: A report shows benefits of returning endangered forests to indigenous cultures, Link HERE. […]

Joining Anthony for today's episode of VETchat is Emma Keeble, DVREP Senior Lecturer and Vet Clinician, and RCVS Recognised Specialist in Zoo and Wildlife Medicine. In this episode, Anthony and Emma chat all about Emma's background and career to date, including how she was inspired to become a zoo vet, working at Edinburgh Zoo. Emma talks all about interesting and unusual wildlife cases, including being involved in hands-on seal rescues and even treating an abscess in a scorpion! Anthony and Emma also talk about avian flu and how this has become a real worry this year. Emma says that often, we overlook the importance of wildlife as sentinels for these sorts of diseases, and it is so important for vets to be able to perform proper post-mortems on any wild birds that are dying unexpectedly, or with signs that they may have been suffering from avian flu. Lastly, they discuss their top tips on how to treat hedgehogs, as well as how to encourage them, and other wildlife, into your garden. The over-urbanisation of the environment has really impacted hedgehogs, so how can we help them survive?

Guess all these answers on the color red. Grab the digital download of my new book Pop Culture Puzzles Vol. 1 for only $7!  https://etsy.me/3iZgSpp Fact of the Day: A penguin living in the Edinburgh Zoo was granted knighthood in 2008. THE FIRST TRIVIA QUESTION STARTS AT 02:26 Theme song by www.soundcloud.com/Frawsty Bed Music: Neon Laser Horizon by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/7015-neon-laser-horizon License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license PLAY TRIVIA WITH BUDDS live on FB Live (and sometimes Zoom!) A full hour interactive show streams often nightly at 7pm PST. See lineup of shows and topics at www.TriviaWithBudds.com under the events section towards the bottom of the homepage. Watch the shows at www.Facebook.com/ryanbudds or www.Facebook.com/TriviaWithBudds  http://TriviaWithBudds.comhttp://Facebook.com/TriviaWithBudds http://Twitter.com/ryanbudds http://Instagram.com/ryanbudds Book a party, corporate event, or fundraiser anytime by emailing ryanbudds@gmail.com or use the contact form here: https://www.triviawithbudds.com/contact SUPPORT THE SHOW: www.Patreon.com/TriviaWithBudds Send me your questions and I'll read them/answer them on the show. Also send me any topics you'd like me to cover on future episodes, anytime! Cheers.  SPECIAL THANKS TO ALL MY PATREON SUBSCRIBERS INCLUDING:  Veronica Baker, Greg Bristow, Brenda and Mo Martinez, Matt Frost, Dillon Enderby, Manny Cortez, Joe Finnie, Jen Wojnar, John Burke, Simon Time, Albert Thomas, Alexandra Pepin, Myles Bagby, Patrick Leahy, Vernon Heagy, Brian Salyer, Casey OConnor, Christy Shipley, Cody Roslund, Dan Papallo, Jim Fields, John Mihaljevic, Loree O'Sullivan, Kimberly Brown, Matt Pawlik, Megan Donnelly, Robert Casey, Sabrina Gianonni, Sara Zimmerman, Wreck My Podcast, Brendan Peterson, Feana Nevel, Jenna Leatherman, Madeleine Garvey, Mark and Sarah Haas, Alexander Calder, Paul McLaughlin, Shaun Delacruz, Barry Reed, Clayton Polizzi, Edward Witt, Jenni Yetter, Joe Jermolowicz, Kyle Henderickson, Luke Mckay, Pamela Yoshimura,  Paul Doronila, Rich Hyjack, Ricky Carney, Russ Friedewald, Tracy Oldaker, Willy Powell, Victoria Black, David Snow, Leslie Gerhardt, Rebecca Meredith, Jeff Foust, Richard Lefdal Timothy Heavner, Michael Redman, Michele Lindemann, Ben Stitzel, Shiana Zita, and Josh Gregovich, Jen and Nic Capano, Gerritt Perkins, Chris Arneson, Trenton Sullivan, Jacob LoMaglio, Erin Burgess, Torie Prothro, Donald Fuller, Kristy, Pate Hogan, Scott Briller, Sam K, Dean Bratton, and Denise Leonard! YOU GUYS ROCK! 

This week we are coming to you live from Edinburgh Zoo as Jack sits down for a chat with the CEO of the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland, David Field! This organisation runs both Edinburgh Zoo and the Highland Wildlife Park, so the pair delve into what it means to be a good zoo and how the RZSS is making sure that it is creating an inclusive and educational space which encourages visitors to love, value and ultimately want to protect nature! The duo also discuss some of the conservation moments which have really inspired David; his chimpanzee friend Koko; and his work with the Zoological Society of East Anglia, Zoological Society of London, Whipsnade Zoo and Dublin Zoo! Finally, the pair talk about some of David's favourite under-appreciated zoo species and how the RZSS is going to help reverse the decline of at least 50 species within the next decade! Useful Links: Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram! We are @PangolinPodcast ! Learn more about The RZSS: https://www.rzss.org.uk/ Visit ZOOdle, the RZSS Learning Website: https://learning.rzss.org.uk Follow the RZSS on Twitter: @RZSS, @HighlandWPark, & @EdinburghZoo Follow the RZSS on Instagram: @RZSSofficial, @HighlandWPark, & @EdinburghZoo Music Credits: "Cambodian Odyssey" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com), Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ At The Shore by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3389-at-the-shore License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Monkoto by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4072-monkoto License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ AngloZulu by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3372-anglozulu License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Savannah (Sketch) by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4323-savannah-sketch- License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Today Jack is joined by the amazing Lizzie Seymour, the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland's Learning Technology Officer! The pair discuss what learning technology actually is, how she is integrating it into Edinburgh Zoo, and how during the COVID-19 Pandemic she managed to create the fantastic conservation education platform – ZOOdle! For the unusual animal fans out there, Jack and Lizzie also discuss two of her favourite species – Penguins and Gibbons! If you have ever wanted to hear a gibbons song, make sure and stay tuned! Useful Links: Follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @PangolinPodcast Visit ZOOdle: https://learning.rzss.org.uk Follow the RZSS on Twitter: @RZSS & @EdinburghZoo Follow the RZSS on Instagram: @RZSSofficial & @EdinburghZoo Visit the RZSS website: https://www.rzss.org.uk Music Credits: "Cambodian Odyssey" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com), Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ At The Shore by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3389-at-the-shore License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Monkoto by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4072-monkoto License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ AngloZulu by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3372-anglozulu License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Savannah (Sketch) by Kevin MacLeod Link: https://filmmusic.io/song/4323-savannah-sketch- License: https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends April 29th 2022. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://attractions.io/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-thompson Jacob Thompson joined the industry at the height of the pandemic and heads up business development for Attractions.io, a mobile app platform dedicated to creating better guest experiences.Before joining Attractions.io, Jacob has worked across varying sectors, including financial services, not-for-profit, education and tech, and has a passion for helping businesses realise the fantastic opportunities that technology presents us with.When he's not working, Jacob is a keen reader, an average basketball player and a below-average golfer. Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in, or working with, visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Jacob Thompson, Business Development Manager at Attractions.io. We discuss exactly why your attraction needs an app, and the incredible positives of going digital, from an environmental perspective. If you like what you hear, subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels, by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Jacob, thank you for coming on the Skip the Queue podcast this morning. It's lovely to have you.Jacob Thompson: Thanks for having me. Listened to it for a long time. So it's an absolute pleasure to finally be on it as well.Kelly Molson: Oh, I love that. I love it when guests come on and they already love the podcast. Maybe I'll be kinder to you with the icebreaker questions because of that. Or maybe not.Jacob Thompson: Please do. Please do.Kelly Molson: Right. Let's get cracking. I want to know what your favourite movie quote is?Jacob Thompson: "We're going to need a bigger boat." I think it's got to be, hasn't it? Iconic. And I find myself using that expression a lot, especially with how busy things are currently. I think it kind of translates very well.Kelly Molson: Love it. Yeah. That is a perfect one for how we're all feeling right now. Jacob and I had a little conversation just before we started recording, about how busy we all are right now. There seems to be an influx of very positive, new leads and inquiries, which is wonderful, but also, oh, I think that probably sums up how we're feeling, right?Jacob Thompson: Absolutely. Absolutely.Kelly Molson: Okay. If you could get rid of one food, so nobody ever had to eat this food ever again, what would it be? What would you destroy?Jacob Thompson: Oh, Stilton. Oh, is that going to be an unpopular-Kelly Molson: Cheese?Jacob Thompson: Can I use that as my unpopular opinion? It's just when you have a cheese platter, the smell just ruins it for me. And I think just get rid of it. There's plenty of other cheeses to choose from, so that... Can I use that as my unpopular opinion as well, maybe?Kelly Molson: No, you can't. We were getting on so well up until that point as well.Jacob Thompson: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Had to be honest.Kelly Molson: Wow. Okay. This might not go as well. All right. Okay. Tell me something that you are not very good at?Jacob Thompson: Oh, there's a lot of things. I think maybe this is a little bit deep, but I think reflecting on previous achievements, I think I often get so focused on what needs to be done that actually, I forget all of the things that I have done already. And I think maybe that's a bit deep and philosophical for what you are looking for. But that's yeah... That's what I go with.Kelly Molson: That's a really good one. Because I think that that is a good reminder that we all need to celebrate the small wins, don't we? We really need to take time out. And I think that's quite a common challenge with a lot of us. I am exactly the same as you. I'm always focused on what's next. What's next? What's next? And then don't sit back and go, oh actually we did a really good job there.Jacob Thompson: Definitely.Kelly Molson: Pat ourselves on the back a little bit.Jacob Thompson: Need to do it a little bit more.Kelly Molson: Definitely. All right. You're unpopular opinion. Not about cheese.Jacob Thompson: Oh, so I've probably already alienated that half of the listeners already. Probably more than half, but oh, yeah. What could I give you that's not too controversial? I think firstly, I fully get behind the England team and really get into it when it comes to the World Cup and the Euro's. But when I put them side by side, I think rugby is the better sport, over football. So sorry if I offend anyone there.Kelly Molson: Okay. All right. No, that's fine. I think this has come up before as well actually, that rugby is the far superior sport to football. I'm a massive football fan.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: So I'm going to disagree with you.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: But I think there's plenty of people that will agree with your unpopular opinion. Let us know what you think about that one listeners? And Jacob, tell us a little bit about you, and what your role is at Attractions.io?Jacob Thompson: Yeah. So I'm the business development manager for Attractions.io. So basically my role is to speak with attractions at an early stage to understand obviously, what we can help them with, what they're struggling with at the moment. And I've been doing that for the past two years now. So a relative rookie in the industry compared to some of the big hitters that you've had join you on the podcast. But yeah, it's really just, I'm here to help attractions, especially not just with a mobile app, but just their approach to their digital strategy. How they can engage their guests, how they can better communicate them. And obviously, most importantly, create better guest experiences. And that's what I'm here to do.Kelly Molson: Did you come from an attractions background? Have you got a slightly different...Jacob Thompson: So I'm still pretty young. So I left school with not really a clear direction on what I wanted to do. But I thought if I give everything to go work hard at it, and see what opportunities present themselves to me. So after leaving school, I quickly moved into to the tech background, and working with mobile app providers, for conferences and events. And after a few changes and moves, I found myself at Attractions.io. And I think obviously there was huge imposter syndrome entering the industry because I know, I learned very quickly how kind of tight knit it is. But I guess I kind of went in with a mindset of, if I've been visiting attractions since as young as I can remember. So I've got the experience, I know what a good guest experience feels like. And I've just tried to bring that to the role. But yeah, so still very, very new to the industry.Kelly Molson: But you've got real world experience. So that's-Jacob Thompson: Exactly.Kelly Molson: ...what's important. And I love that you mentioned customer experience there.Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: Because that's what I really love about Attractions.io. So all the content that you produce or the webinars that I've watched, that yourself and Mark have spoken on, is that you are all about improving the customer experience. And I love that because that's exactly what Rubber Cheese is all about as well. But it's interesting because we come from slightly different ways of looking at that.Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: So I guess we are all about that kind of pre-visit experience and making people feel excited about what they're potentially buying and what they're potentially going to see. And then you guys take over with the-Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: ..app visitor experience. So we are very complimentary. I've got loads of questions around what you do today, but I think the most important question that I want to know is, why does an attraction need an app?Jacob Thompson: Yeah. So I think there's kind of two sides to this. I think firstly, and this has been largely because of the pandemic, but it's always changing, is guest expectations. So I think we all know that we spent however long in lock down. Everything turned digital for us, our whole lives and experiences were digital. And we got very used to being served personalised content, whether that's Netflix, given recommendations, personalised ads, Amazon offering discounts on products we've viewed, things like that. It shaped that, experienced in the expectations we now have, is that wherever we go, we want that same personalised experience. It makes us feel special. It creates a better experience. I think also there's now more digital natives. So people that have grown up with technology, than there has been previously. And I think, I know for one that I'm comfortable and happy to order, when I go to McDonald's or Wetherspoons, or wherever I may go, ordering through my phone as much-Kelly Molson: Still, insight in there, to get your free time Jacob.Jacob Thompson: I don't get, don't go to McDonald's as much as they used to. So yeah, no, but I think it's that whole expectation. It makes people's lives easier. And I think, tying into that, is actually solving the problems that I guess, some we knew of and tried to hide. And some, we hadn't even really kind of come across before, that were highlighted during the pandemic. So I think that the biggest one was queues, and social distancing. Queues are kind of that number one complaint that guests have, especially a theme park, you spend more time queuing than you do on rides. So suddenly, parks and operators needed to look at that, and go, how do we remove those physical queues? Because we can't have people standing next to each other for that long.Jacob Thompson: And that's where things like virtual queuing came in, and just adapting to use technology, to solve a lot of the problems that already existed and unlock new benefits that we didn't have before. So being able to have that direct channel of communication. You mentioned that pre-visit experience, you've got so much control around building that excitement, understanding who's on your website, what they're clicking on, what they're engaging with most. But then they arrive on site and we've lost that channel there. And that's obviously what we're out here to provide.Kelly Molson: I love that. Yeah. And it's really important. Isn't it? Because like you say, once someone's in, you've essentially lost them. If they're not attached to their app or they're not like engaged with it in some way. You're giving them, it's harder to understand where people are, where they're interacting, what their challenges are, what their frustrations are, what their positives are, I guess. So tell me some of the biggest challenges that attractions will bring to you, that might shape what their app would look like?Jacob Thompson: Yeah. That's a tough one, because I think every attraction is slightly different. And I mean, we work with theme parks, zoos, resorts, heritage attractions. They've all got their independent challenges. I think when I joined the industry, so I joined right in the middle of the pandemic. So early on, maybe just before summer 2020. So right in the middle of it, and obviously everyone was panicking, going, how do we reopen safely? And a lot of that was around, obviously supporting social distancing, with things like virtual queues, using heat map data of guest flow to understand where people going, and making sure that we're spreading people out. Now we're, fingers crossed, at the tail end of that. I think it's still highlighted a lot around the guest experience. So making sure guest flow is spread out. So people aren't queuing for ages.Jacob Thompson: That they're not having to wait to get on rides, or to see an attraction, that they can move around freely. I think another thing, and it starts to crop up a lot more, is ungated attractions. So whether that's free to enter attractions, there's some theme parks that we work with, where you can go in for free and you just pay per ride. A lack of understanding of who's visiting them.Kelly Molson: Yeah.Jacob Thompson: So they may get the odd bit of information, maybe on pre purchase of car parking, but largely they can maybe only understand 10% of their visitor base, which we need to unlock as much of that data as possible. By having that app there, is we can collect email addresses and behavioural data to attach to that, which in turn, just opens up that world of possibility, to engage guests and understand who they are.Jacob Thompson: But I think the biggest thing now that I've noticed is that people, as we spoke about expectations, changing, do understand the importance and need for that digital presence and that experience on site. So I think the biggest challenge that's coming to us now is, how do we do this right? Because there's so many ways to approach building an app and it's about rethinking, okay, how can we not only benefit the guest and create a really good guest experience, but how can we obviously gain those benefits as operators? So that data, those insights, and often rushing into building an app can lead to just an interactive map and not much more, and not giving much substance. So yeah, again, from your experience, I don't know from the previous experience, what it's like for you, when you get operators coming to you, because digital is so important now, how they approach that. And whether they want to jump in and just make sure they've got the basics, or it'd be really good to understand how you've approached that as well.Kelly Molson: Yeah. So I guess it is interesting. So as a web design agency, we often get asked about apps. And it's always, okay, well, we've had this idea and we think that we need an app. And you go, okay, well, let's pull that apart. What does this app need to do for you? What does it need to deliver for you? And then essentially they will kind of explain something that their website already does. And so we are like, okay, well, you don't need to create an app that's a carbon copy of your website. It has to do something more for the guest. They can go to your website and they can find that information. What is, what's the use of just replicating that in an app.Kelly Molson: And I think that's the challenge, is understanding really, what the benefit to the client, what the benefits are to the customer is, and what the benefit to them is going to be, and not just replicating what they already have, because that doesn't make any sense. So that's what I see as the biggest challenge is. Do attractions, and then not just attractions because we work with a variety of people. Do people really understand what that need, and what that benefit is going to it be by having an app? I think that's what we get asked all the time.Jacob Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. And I think one thing that people often, until they start to speak to us, and I think the biggest thing is, is that education piece around, there's no point in doing this kind of just have an app for the sake of it. It's really making sure that it's delivering value. And most people see the app, but then forget that we've not just spent a long time building an app dedicated to the attraction's industry. We've also got a whole operator experience as well in the background, where it's given those data and insights, allowing you to use the data capture, to communicate with guests. And I think that's one thing that the education is so important, because what we don't want is, is attractions taking that leap, trying to build an app themselves, and have not really thought it through.Jacob Thompson: And we really want to make sure that they've got all the information they need to make an informed decision around how is this going to add value to the guest experience. And also how is it going make our lives easier, solve our biggest challenges, and obviously bring the benefits of increased revenue, increased NPS. So there's a whole host. And I think education's just that big piece that we really have to work with when we speak to attractions.Kelly Molson: Yeah, definitely. And I think what was really interesting. So I listened to Mark.Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: Founder of Attractions.io. I listened to his podcast interview that he did with the great guys at AttractionPros. And I really liked how he described the approach to what you guys do for app development, as a holistic approach. And this was really interesting because he described it as, "A lot of the time when attractions want to develop an app, it will sit with marketing, and it'll be very much in the marketing departments pile." But where he said, actually, this is a whole operational piece, that this app could be. And it was really interesting to hear, how this app can have an effect on so many different departments. From operations, in terms of customer flow, like you mentioned, yes it is a marketing piece as well, but yes, you can order your food.Kelly Molson: So the beverage team need to be involved in these decisions as well. And I just, I kind of thought, yeah, that this is so much bigger, isn't it? It's such a, it could be such an integrated piece that could really help so many different departments across the organisation, rather than it just being something that marketing pick up and go, we need an app.Jacob Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, again, it's probably my biggest challenge when speaking to attractions, is getting that message across. And yeah, like you say, it's very easy for marketing to have, own the app and do a good job with it. But in that siloed approach, they miss out on so many opportunities. And just from the deployments we've done, and even attractions that have apps with different providers that have done it right, or built it themselves, is the best ones are where it really just span the entire guest experience, which as you mentioned, it spans the whole team at that attraction. So retail, food and beverage operations, ride operators, even senior management, in terms of planning, expansion, understanding what guests are doing, where they're spending the time. It really is. Yeah. That, that holistic approach to the whole digital strategy.Jacob Thompson: And I think it also ties into, again, what you and the team do is, tying the whole journey together. So it's a seamless digital experience from the moment they see an advert online, to going through to the website, to purchasing their tickets, uploading their tickets into the app, using scanning it when they arrive. Using the app through the whole experience. And then obviously the data that we've captured from the start of the journey. So the booking phase to the app phase is then continuing to own that relationship going forward, and being able to communicate with them. So you want people to come back, you want them to bring friends and family, you want them to purchase season passes. So by creating that end to end guest journey, you've then got full control to engage and influence that the guests that are visiting with you.Kelly Molson: Yeah. It's really powerful, isn't it? When you actually timeline that journey through, that's a really powerful, to be able to contain that data for so long. Here's a question for you. Now this is something that's come up a few times when I've had guests on. And I think actually it was one of our guest's unpopular opinions. I'm pretty sure it was.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: How do you get the balance right, of wanting guests to engage with the app, but not trying to detract their attention from the attraction that they're currently in. So this was definitely, I can remember now, it was the interview that we carried out with Edinburgh Zoo.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: David Field of Edinburgh Zoo.Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: The unpopular opinion was, "I just, I don't, I want people off of their phones while they're here. I don't want them on their phones. I want them to be present. I want them to be in the moment." And so I guess that's really tricky, isn't it? Like, how do you do that?Jacob Thompson: Yeah. And do you know what? That is quite a common early objection that we'll come up against. And I think the kind of highlight is, is we don't want people on the phones the whole time. We don't want them staring at the phone. We want them experiencing it. We want to enhance that experience. I think there's a few ways we do that. And just that is, firstly, it's getting people from A to B quicker. So let's say we're at the zoo and we want to go find the penguins. So a paper map, obviously we can talk about sustainability, and the printed maps aren't great for the environment and cost money. Having the app there, we've got, rather than having to rotate the map, you've got the whole family standing around. It is, we can quickly find where we want to go and use the wayfinding abilities to get, to see the animals quicker.Jacob Thompson: So we don't miss the keeper talks, the animal feeding time. So it's removing some of those challenges to allow people to actually spend more time engaging, whether that's getting on the ride, seeing the animals, rather than all the little bits in between. The other thing is reducing, as I mentioned, some of those real pain points around queuing. So let's say the kids are on the playground, and you want to go and order food. Normally you'd have to queue, but now with a mobile app, you can stand there, watch your kids play in, they can have fun, you can order your food and you'll get an alert to say, right, go and pick it up now. And you've just saved all of that time where the kids would be kicking and screaming, because you're dragging them away from the playground. That you can just sit back order your food, and wait for it to be ready.Jacob Thompson: And then the other aspect and the third aspect that kind of ties it all together is, enhancing the experience. So when people are looking at, let's say some of the animals is, that we can supplement that with audio and video guides, to just really educate. And that's one big thing that we work with zoos on, is more than just having kind of the name plaque and the name in Latin, is how can we engage, especially a younger audience, and educate them and start to promote those conservation initiatives, which obviously drives revenue.Jacob Thompson: So there's a few different areas, but I think ultimately we just want to enhance that physical experience. We're not here to replace it. And I think, hopefully, all of the attractions that we've work with, will affirm that, and understand that it's helped. It's really helped engage guests in a better way but still hasn't taken away. Because you can't replace the feeling of seeing your favourite animal for the first time or going on that roller coaster. So it's all about being that companion, to make that experience better and not take away from it.Kelly Molson: That's a great word, a digital companion. I love that.Jacob Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.Kelly Molson: I actually prefer that to app. We should all use-Jacob Thompson: Yeah, there you go. Maybe we'll, yeah, I'll rebrand my sales material. But yeah, I think that's exactly what it is and yeah, we're here to supplement and enhance it. Not take away from it, or replace it.Kelly Molson: Yeah. It's great. And there's some great benefits in there as well. Just from, from talking about that, I could, it was, I could see myself kind of at the playground waiting for my kids.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: I could put myself in that situation. Something that you touched on actually was sustainability. And I'd really like to talk about this. I mean, sustainability is something that all attractions need to be really focused on anyway. But we had a really great past episode on this specifically, with Lucy Downing and Sue Pennington from Holkham Hall. And they talked through, I mean, phenomenal sustainability policies that they have in place there and their Wonder program that they've initiated there, which is incredible. There's a really good case study on your website that I've read a number of times now, from ZooTampa.Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: I would really love to hear a little bit more about this, because it does some really incredibly positive things for the environment, the sustainability around the zoo. And they've made some, like quite phenomenal cost savings as well.Jacob Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. So I think that the case really kind of came off the back of, I think it was Green Loop. Me, Mark, and the team at ZooTampa, did the talk just around how having a digital presence like that, and having a mobile app can help with sustainability. So yeah, hopefully I'm quoting it right. So I think the kind of amazing results, that even blew me and Mark away, when we heard them, was that ZooTampa were able to save $50,000 a year, which is just phenomenal. Especially for a charity, a zoo. But they're cutting their print waste by 95%.Kelly Molson: That's amazing.Jacob Thompson: And it's almost nothing. And what that has done, obviously apart from having that immediate impact on the reduced print and the cost savings, is that there's two things that have happened. Obviously, those cost savings can now be redirected to something much more important. Whether that be the conservation initiatives that they run locally, to them, or obviously internationally that they're involved in. But also the way they went about it was not only digitising maps and not printing maps anymore but pushing for digitised tickets.Jacob Thompson: So they now get people to upload their tickets into the mobile app. And that means that more people, because there's a need now to have everything within the app, that they now can communicate those conservation initiatives, because they've got that direct channel during the visit, during the experience. So they can educate and really capture the whole audience. And I think it's not just ZooTampa obviously that yet, absolutely incredible results that they've seen, but we've seen a lot of attractions, not just zoos, but theme parks as well. In some of our partner attractions, reducing printed, like guest printed information, completely. So the only option is that digital companion, we'll call it now, I like that one. So I think it's been a real shift and it's so important. And I think it's been ever present recently, but it's something we need to continue to think about, sustainability, and it all ties back to those expectations as well.Jacob Thompson: And the digital natives especially is that people either expect or are really comfortable now, in the majority of cases, using a digital channel. So if it makes life easier, if it enhances the experience, then it's a perfect way to channel people in that direction, rather than picking up a printed map. And I know a lot of parks that haven't, are on that path now, from handing out loads of maps, to now, just printing maybe 10, 15% of what they used to. Just to have it on hand. But I think over the next couple of years, especially we're just going to see that shift towards a 100% digital, because it has all the added benefits, not only just of the sustainability angle as well.Kelly Molson: Yeah. I mean, it's phenomenal, isn't it? The cost savings.Jacob Thompson: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Kelly Molson: And the advantages to sustainability that, that can bring. I mean, I think it's important to acknowledge that, we probably talk from a place of privilege that we have mobile phones, and we know how to use them, and there will be a lot of people out there that, it's accessible for them. So there is self place for printed maps.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: But to be able to save so much and channel that into other things, is just incredible. Who knew that an app could be so valuable?Jacob Thompson: Who knew, and yeah. It's just been, yeah. It's been amazing to see. And I think the results like that, when we can save charities money through our product, it's obviously, yeah. It's very rewarding to see. And yeah, I think, always got a soft spot when working with zoos, because I know there is that opportunity out there to really help them.Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. I want to go back a little bit. To what we talked about earlier, about some of the common challenges that attractions bring you. And kind of what I mentioned as well, about how we often get asked, hey, I need an app, but then it's not really, they are not very clear about what that app needs to do. What do you need to understand from an attraction to be able to work out what would be the perfect solution for them? Like, what do they need to think about before they come to speak to you?Jacob Thompson: Yeah, well, there is a lot to think about, and that's what we're here to help with. I think firstly, it's really zooming out a little bit. And we did run bit of initiative last year to help attractions around mapping out the entire digital guest journey. Because as we mentioned, that timeline is really powerful, but we almost want to see it as a bit of a flywheel rather than an end to end timeline, because what we want to do is make sure the app is connecting the start and the end of the visit, but ties it all back together. So I think firstly just, just mapping out, understanding what technology they're currently using. So things like ticketing providers is incredibly important because we want to be able to integrate with them, through to point of sale, CRM systems.Jacob Thompson: Once we've started to tie that together, it's then to really look at guest feedback, and feedback from the wider team as well. When we look at that holistic approach, to understand, okay, what challenges can we solve? So what are the biggest pain points for the guest experience right now? And like I said, that they'll differ for each attraction. But once you can pinpoint those, whether that be queue times, whether that be everyone is going into the same food outlet at lunch, and we're just getting people waiting around for ages. Whether that be the animals, aren't always visible. It's how can we communicate with guests, to let them know when the animals might be visible or when there's the next keeper talk so they can make sure they can obviously see the animals they've gone there to see.Jacob Thompson: I think obviously that's just a flavour of some of the problems. But I think most important, is mapping that guest journey out and then pinpointing where an app is going to be able to solve those problems. There'll be some added benefits along the way. And once you've got that, and that's what we are here to help attractions do is, then you can start to really evaluate the process of, okay, how do we go about implementing an app. So it's not just let's launch an app in the app store. It's how do we market that properly? Because otherwise, if you don't explain the benefits or the reasons behind the launch, the app, people won't download it, if you don't make it visible. So if you don't promote it, when people are purchasing tickets, when they're receiving the ticket confirmation, when they arrive on site.Jacob Thompson: So again, it's that holistic approach that attractions need to just zoom out a little bit, understand what they're currently doing, identify those pain points, and then start to evaluate the solutions that are out there. So there's kind of three approaches that we often see. There's the do it yourself, which larger attractions, no doubt, have the capital to throw at that kind of project. It takes millions of pounds of investment and years of work to get a solution, to be that world class solution. And obviously, Mark and the team at Attractions.io, have learnt that the hard way I guess. And they've gone and done that, so other attractions don't have to. There's bringing in teams to help with that, which especially with an app for a visitor attraction, it's such a specific thing. So things that need to be considered like battery life conservation.Jacob Thompson: So it's not just like ordering a Domino's and you can put your phone away, you out for the whole day, you need to make sure that your battery life will last. And there's loads of work just around optimizing that. Things like being an offline solution as well, that often someone coming in wouldn't really understand if they're not from the attractions space, is that we know you can go to a lot of visitor attractions, and I think most of them admit themselves, there's always going to be a patchy signal in some places.Jacob Thompson: So we need to make sure that experience doesn't, isn't impacted because of that. And then I think finally, is ourselves and obviously platforms like ourselves. So like I said, there's been loads of investment going into the platform and it now means that we can scale that out to attractions very quickly. And they're kind of the three approaches that people will look at. So yeah, I guess looking at their current guest journey and then starting to evaluate the approach to how to launch a mobile app. And that's, they're the two big areas that I guess attractions will look at, on that journey.Kelly Molson: That's brilliant. Thank you for detailing that out for us. It's interesting, because it's a really similar process that we go through when we are asking about websites at the start.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: What technology are you already using? What does it need to integrate with? What are your challenges? What are your customers saying are big issues with stuff. And again, taking that real holistic approach, and making sure that everybody is having their say, and what gets produced, and what is going to be of benefit. So, yeah. Brilliant. Thank you. We always ask our guests that come on the podcast, if they can share a book that they love with us, something they love, something that's influenced their career in some way. It can be personal, it can be work related. What have you got to share with us?Jacob Thompson: Yeah. So I know that, I think I've seen Mark Ellis and Johnny both recommended, I think Mark went to the extreme of recommending 43 books, I think. I know it was obviously part of a larger series and I could have easily done maybe not 43, but a few, but I have taken it down to one book, which is Atomic Habits, by James Clear. I don't know whether it's been recommended before, but I picked this. In fact, I listened to it on audiobook first, and then loved it that much, that I bought the physical copy. I think it's impacted so many areas of my life personally, professionally. I think it's, I won't give too much away. People should read it, but it's all about making change. So whether that be implementing new habits, getting rid of old ones, it's all that, there's so much really useful information and tips in there that a lot of books tend to waffle on and pad it out.Jacob Thompson: This is page to page, really actionable advice on making change, implementing change and basically just starting off small. And then yeah, like you say, look back and see all those changes that come together to have that big impact. So that's, that's my one recommendation, I'll stick to.Kelly Molson: One book recommendation. Did you hear that listeners? One book. Well done Jacob.Jacob Thompson: Yep. It was hard.Jacob Thompson: It was hard.Kelly Molson: Following instructions though.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: It's a great book. I have read that book.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: And it is an awesome book. I really like, it's about marginal games really, isn't it?Jacob Thompson: Yep.Kelly Molson: It's about being one percent better. One percent better all the time.Jacob Thompson: Mm-hmm (affirmative).Kelly Molson: And that is something that I think is really important, rather than taking a massive jump into trying to do something huge and looks really scary. But yeah, it's a big thing about celebrating your progress in there.Jacob Thompson: Yeah.Kelly Molson: So that's one that we all should take away from today. Thank you. As ever, if you want to win a copy of that book, if you head over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with the words, "I want Jacob's book", then you will be in with the chance of winning it. Jacob, thank you. I've really enjoyed our talk today. It's really interesting to see, I think how aligned both of our approaches are. And I hope that our listeners today will take away from this, how important and how beneficial an app can actually be, as long as it's thought out, and processed, and constructed in the right way.Jacob Thompson: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You've summed that up perfectly. So yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure to talk about it today, and yeah, thanks for having me on the podcast.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us, and remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese,, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions, that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

In the first podcast for 2022, PlantNetwork speaks with Jess Brown of RZSS Edinburgh Zoo about gardening for pandas among many other animals. Find out more about the working life of a zoo horticulturist - and join us in February for a webinar focusing on zoo horticulture.   We are exploring different ways to work in horticulture. Get to know the people behind the gardens and the different careers pursued by horticulturists in this series from PlantNetwork – An interview with.... Visit plantnetwork.org to learn more. This episode is hosted by Rebecca Slack, PlantNetwork Coordinator.

Happy Holidays and welcome to the Pangolin Christmas Special! Today's festive celebration brings together old friends Jack Baker and Jodi McFarlane to discuss the season of good will; their time working together at various conservation organisations; and how we can all make a difference this holiday season! As part of this discussion the pair share their favourite holiday traditions, what they are grateful for, and some festive conservation stories. Mentioned species include: Angel Sharks, Goats, Tigers, Bantengs, Chimpanzees, Chinese Gorals, Red Pandas, Giant Pandas, Hippos, Giraffes & Sting Rays (also Starfish in relation to the Nativity... it will make sense when you get there)! You can follow us on social media: @PangolinPodcast (We are on Instagram/Twitter/Facebook/Linkedin) Please support your local conservation organisations this festive season. Both Jodi and Jack work for the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland at Edinburgh Zoo and so if you would like to support their work you can! You can find them online at: https://www.rzss.org.uk Learn more about the Highland Wildlife Parks Polar Bear cub here: https://www.highlandwildlifepark.org.uk/news/article/20021/polar-bear-cub-born-at-highland-wildlife-park/ Music Credits: "Cambodian Odyssey" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com), Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License, http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ At The Shore by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3389-at-the-shore License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Monkoto by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/4072-monkoto License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ AngloZulu by Kevin MacLeod, Link: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3372-anglozulu License: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends April 29th 2022. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/https://www.rzss.org.uk/support/https://www.highlandwildlifepark.org.uk/we-are-open https://twitter.com/Lisa_Robshawhttps://twitter.com/EdinburghZoohttps://twitter.com/HighlandWPark David Field, Royal Zoological Society of Scotland (RZSS) CEO, returned to RZSS in 2020 having been a section moderator at Edinburgh Zoo early in his career. David's previous roles include chief executive of the Zoological Society of East Anglia, zoological director of the Zoological Society of London (ZSL), curator of ZSL Whipsnade Zoo and assistant director of Dublin Zoo. An honorary professor of the Royal Veterinary College, David has served as chairman of the British and Irish Association of Zoos and Aquaria (BIAZA) and is the current president of the Association of British and Irish Wild Animal Keepers. Lisa Robshaw is a visitor attraction marketing specialist with 20 years' experience of working in the tourism and hospitality industry after studying International Tourism at the University of Lincoln. She joined the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland (RZSS)  in August 2019 after a brief stint agency side. Prior to this she has worked for Historic Environment Scotland, Continuum Attractions and British Tourist Authority (Now Visit Britain).As Head of Marketing and Sales at RZSS, Lisa leads the teams responsible for the wildlife conservation charity's marketing, sales activity, membership, adoptions, events and experiences . No day is ever the same and what she enjoys most is sharing the amazing experiences Edinburgh Zoo and Highland Wildlife Park have to offer and telling people about the important work RZSS does to protect threatened species in Scotland and around the world .  When she's not working, Lisa can usually be found chasing after her young family and planning visits to the south coast of England from where she originally hails! Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host Kelly Molson. Each episode I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with David Field, CEO, and Lisa Robshaw, Head of Marketing and Sales, at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland. We discuss the zoo's experiences over the pandemic, highs, lows, and why you really can't furlough a penguin. If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Lisa and David, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I'm really looking forward to speaking to you both.Lisa Robshaw: Yeah, looking forward to speaking to you. It should be good fun.Kelly Molson: Well, let's see how we get on with the icebreaker questions, and see how much fun it is going to be.David Field: Yeah. I'm dreading this.Kelly Molson: I've been quite kind to you both, actually, I feel because we've got two of you today and we've got a lot to cram in. So what is the worst food you've ever eaten and why isn't it peas?Lisa Robshaw: Oh my God. I think it was snails for me. And it was when I was 12, in France. So that probably doesn't help. So we're talking like 1990, giving away my age now. And we're in this awful school canteen on this French exchange trip, we were forced to eat these snails. We weren't rude to our hosts. I don't actually think they were cooked particularly well because I think some of us were ill afterwards.Kelly Molson: Oh gosh.Lisa Robshaw: The texture, the smell, the whole experience.David Field: Yeah. I adore snails and I adore peas. I'm not sure your listeners would particularly want to hear about my adventures when we've been out on ... doing field work in Indonesia, some of the things that we had out there. But we did have to eat animals which were hunted and caught, and we ate. And they were kind of animals, which suffice to say, had a very strong aroma about them. So you're in the jungles, you're surviving, and it was not nice. But it was the aroma of their scent glands which permeated the meat.Kelly Molson: Oh Gosh. Yeah. I'm getting a really lovely ... a lovely image of that, David. Thank you.David Field: It makes celebrity in the jungle thing a walk in the park.Kelly Molson: You were the real celeb. Get me out of here.David Field: I really wanted to get out of there.Kelly Molson: Okay. Brilliant. Thank you. Okay. To both of you, if you could have an extra hour of free time every day, how would you use that free time?David Field: I would do more moth hunting. I like trapping moths and counting moths. And I never get a chance in a morning to do that. So that's what I would do, every single day if I could.Kelly Molson: Moth hunting, can we just elaborate on this? So this is a hobby of yours?David Field: Yeah. Yeah. You just hunt ... and butterflies. It's amazing. It's the best thing in the world. And you just ... every night you set at this light trap and moths are attracted to it at night. And then you get in there in the morning, first thing in the morning, and you've got all these hundreds of different species of moths, and it's just the most beautiful thing. They are the most gorgeous thing that we never think about that just roam our gardens. And I'd do that every day if I could.Kelly Molson: Oh wow. I honestly have never heard anyone have that as a hobby before. That's something completely new for me. How lovely.David Field: Yeah. Try it.Kelly Molson: This is why I ask these questions. You never know what you're going to get. What about your unpopular opinions?Lisa Robshaw: Harry Potter books should not be read by adults. They are a children's book.Kelly Molson: Oh. I mean, no one can see my face because this is a podcast. So if you're not watching the video it's ... Gosh.Lisa Robshaw: But I don't know what it is. I remember when Harry Potter came out. Again, I'm aging myself here. I was at university and I didn't understand why people were going mental. And then I think right about the time of ... in the middle of it all, they re-released the same book with a different cover to appeal to adults. And I was like, that is wrong. You're ripping people off. It's a children's book. That's what I talk about. No, no, no.Kelly Molson: I am quite shocked by that. I love the Harry Potter books.Lisa Robshaw: I'm sure they're great. I've tried reading them. I just ... they're not for me.Kelly Molson: What about the films? Fan? Not bothered?Lisa Robshaw: I kind of class those as a sort of Boxing Day, fall asleep in front of it after a few glasses of red wine type of film. Anything that keeps the kids' kids quiet for two and a half hours. You know what I mean? It's that kind of thing. But I just don't ... I mean, this is ironic that I've been to a Castle and done the broomstick riding three times and my kids, and it's a brilliant experience. But like grown adults losing their minds over it, I just don't get it.Kelly Molson: Oh my God. Well, David, I don't know, can you top that for an unpopular opinion? I'm not sure.David Field: Well first off, who's Harry Potter?Kelly Molson: What are you doing to me, David?David Field: So perhaps this segues a little bit into talking about the visitor attractions and that type of stuff, but mobile phones should be banned at visitor attractions because it's about family time.Kelly Molson: Oh, that's a bit serious.David Field: I really do think they should be banned from visitor attractions.Kelly Molson: I can see where you're going with that. Yeah. Like being present, not on your phones, not looking for the opportunity to be on your phone, but just being present with your family. I get that.David Field: Yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: Oh, this is ... isn't it really interesting though. But from the perspective of being a CEO of an attraction, wouldn't you want people to be engaged with the stuff that you have there so that they share that on social media, so that then drives more people to come?David Field: They can do that when they go home. They can do that on their way there. They can do that every time. When they're in, and particularly when they're in the zoo, we want them to be engaged with nature, we want them to be there in front of them, not encasing them in some sort of cloak of electronic gadgetry, putting these barriers between them and nature and putting the barriers between them and their family. Live in the moment, not on your phone.Kelly Molson: Oh, what a great quote. Okay. Listeners, I really ... well, I want to hear what you've got to say about both of those unpopular opinions. Thank you for sharing. Okay. I was going to ask you what you do in your roles. But I think from your job titles, it's probably pretty obvious to people, especially the people that are listening to this. So I thought I'd actually ask you if each of you could tell me what your favourite thing is about the zoo or the wildlife park?Lisa Robshaw: It's like choosing a favourite child, isn't it?Kelly Molson: I've only got one, so it's really easy.Lisa Robshaw: Yeah. Highland Wildlife Park. For me, it's the expanse and the fresh air. I mean, I'm a city girl. I'm originally from Portsmouth. I've lived in New York and all this kind of thing, and I've lived in Edinburgh for 20 years now, but ... or 15 years. But when you get up to Highland Wildlife Park in the beautiful Cairngorms and it's just the fresh air and the space, and even when the park's busy, it's almost still silent. Do you know what I mean? It's just this sort of really relaxing place. When I get the chance not to be sitting in meetings all day, as is the danger sometimes when you're on the kind of hamster wheel of working and that kind of thing. So I love getting up there and just spending time and relaxing and enjoying the surroundings.Kelly Molson: Great answer.Lisa Robshaw: That's my professional point of view. I mean, the animals are amazing, and asking me to pick my favourite animal is always a difficult one. Red panda, but ... penguin. Now see, that's the problem. But yeah, that's mine.Kelly Molson: I love it. David, what about yours?David Field: So, as part of my job ... and I've been knocking around this zoo world since I was 12 years old. So for me, it really is about the animals and the beauty and that connection with the animals. And as part of my job now, I insist that I have a couple of hours ... an hour or so in the day that I go pottering around the zoo. And zoo directors need to potter around their zoo. Because every day, every different hour of the day, every season, there is something different going on. There's a different animal, doing something different, something exciting. And my favourite animal changes each day. But I go out and because the zoo and the wildlife park are so different, every single time you go around, that's what makes them so amazing and beautiful and inspiring and glorious, and why I've been doing this for 30 odd years.Kelly Molson: Oh, perfect answer. I love that you're just pottering around, just having a little walk around your zoo, just checking out the animals. It's really nice. I'd like to do that. There you go. And I'd like to spend my hour pottering around the zoo if I got my extra hour. Thank you both. So the title of this podcast episode is You can't furlough a penguin. Experiences from the last 19 months at the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland.Kelly Molson: Now, I was at the Visitor Attractions Conference a little while ago, back in October and you can't furlough a penguin was something that I heard Bernard Donoghue say while he was given one of his very fantastic talks, as always. And I thought, that's a great podcast title. I'm going to use that when I get Lisa to come on this podcast.Kelly Molson: I want you to take us back to kind of Feb., March time 2020, when coronavirus was something very new and nobody in the UK had ever heard the word furlough before. I can very vividly remember what it was like for me with a team of seven thinking, gosh, we've got to pack up, we've got to work from home. Is anyone actually going to buy anything from us for the next ... I've got no idea what's going to happen. I can only imagine what was going through your heads, having a team of people that you were both thinking about and thousands of animals that you have to care for, that you're responsible for. What was that even like?David Field: Well, I think every day you are looking back on that time and hindsight's an amazing thing, to look back on how you handled it, how many hours you spent lying, awake thinking about it. But then, in some respects, we were no different to others. And everybody was facing a crisis in so many different ways. And this has been one of the most important sort of most significant kind of social impacts in our lives. Hopefully we'll never get anything like this. My parents, my grandparents had world wars and stuff like that to deal with. We just had to deal with a bit of a pandemic, which quite frankly, we should all have been prepared for. It was coming. And the next one will come.David Field: For me, it was very odd because just February, March, I was leaving my previous job, ready to come up to Edinburgh to start a new job. So I was having to sort of resolve the issues in one zoo and leave it in a good enough state, ready to come to Edinburgh, where my board, etc. at the time were already trying to deal with the organization that at the time, we didn't have a CEO in place then, did we? You just had to react. You just had to understand that you had so little information that you had to be incredibly dynamic and react to situations.David Field: And the crucial nature, before anything else, was just securing money, was securing funding, just so that you could make sure that you could stay open. And the difference in dealing with governments in the UK as compared to governments in Scotland, were miles apart. And so that was the crux. And you were so focused into that, that other things did disappear. Once you could get the money, once you could get the bank loans, once you got that, then you could start some sort of planning. So that was the crux. It was money, money, money all the way, just so you could stay open. Now, as good charities, we all had some reserves, but we just didn't know what the endpoint was going to be. And so securing funding was the be all and end all.Kelly Molson: And I guess, so David, were you ... I mean, you talked a little bit there about the challenges dealing with English government, Scottish government. What were the differences? What was difficult about that process?David Field: Access, getting people to listen to you. Now look, we know the governments had so much on the plate that wanting to listen to the zoo director down the road was probably fairly low down the list. But it was trying to get the message across that you couldn't, not so much furlough a penguin, but you couldn't furlough a penguin keeper. And just trying to get those individual messages through. But being able to get that through to Scottish government made life so much easier, having people that would listen made so much easier for you. To be fair, DEFRA were excellent, but it was trying to get to the ministers. The civil servants, hats off to them, amazing. But try and get through to ministers who actually make the decisions, was nigh on impossible.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I can completely imagine. And Lisa, so where did this leave you? Because I guess you then have to think of different ways to drive donations. You have to think about how you're engaging with the audience who aren't able to come to your venues. You've got to engage with them on social media, online, and virtually in some way. How did you even ... how did you start that process and where did some of the ideas ... and what did you do? Where did they come from?Lisa Robshaw: I mean, for me, it was a massive learning curve. I'm a visitor attraction marketer by trade. I'm not a fundraiser. And it's obviously a different discipline. Although we're talking to the same people, we're having to talk to them in a slightly different way. So I mean, back to that week in March, it was a sense of disbelief of what was going on. All of a sudden, I had to put a different hat on and I was learning a new trade almost from our sort of development team, and all that kind of thing. We put a lot of people on furlough, which meant we all had to wear different hats and support people in a different way. I suddenly became a web developer and yeah, I'm a digital marketeer, I'm not a web developer.Kelly Molson: You want a job because it's really hard to find web developers right now.Lisa Robshaw: I don't think anyone would want to employ me, to be honest. I gave that part of my career up as soon as I could. But very quickly, it was long hours, long days, adapting our messaging. Because to be fair, Edinburgh Zoo and Highland Wildlife Park, visitor attractions first, almost kind of ... in terms of individual giving, it was such a small part of our charitable income at that stage that we just had to completely do a 360. So in terms of fundraising, it was really just making sure that our development team were well supported in making sure our messages got out, and working with the comms teams to make sure the messaging was appropriate, emotional enough to elicit that donation.Lisa Robshaw: And then it was working with kind of our discovery and learning team, I think there was only one after we'd furloughed everybody, on how are we going to engage with people virtually? So obviously we were looking at the great work that other zoos were doing. Chester, for example, with their Friday kind of online videos and Facebook lives and all this kind of thing. Almost, okay, what can we do, which is really Edinburgh or Highland Wildlife Park-esque? You know? And all this kind of thing.Lisa Robshaw: And one of the light bulb moments, I think in think in lockdown two, when we were all getting really quite professional at lockdowns, professional lockdowners, all this kind of thing, was thinking about how we can do virtual birthday parties and take that experience into people's homes, and do something different to what other people were doing. That's what we wanted to do. And that's how we honed our kind of skills, I guess, and how we developed, and how we all evolved during the two lockdowns. It was incredible.Lisa Robshaw: But the outpouring of support from people we had. I mean, I was very much the same as David, how ... and other attractions, not just zoos, but other attractions, how are we going to keep the money coming in while we're closed? How am I going to sell a membership to somebody when the zoo's closed and they not having the experience? It's things like making sure the membership didn't start until we reopened, so people felt, we'll get them the money at that point, but their membership wasn't starting. They were getting the added value when we opened. And our membership, the support we had from our members and our new members was just incredible during lockdown. It really was. And that just ... yeah, it was a massive learning curve.David Field: I mean, that support Lisa, that you talked about, was huge, was overwhelming. It was remarkable. And certainly Edinburgh Zoo and Highland Wildlife Park, certainly the zoo, hadn't had that level of support previously. The level of support that we received from the community was incredible. But I think that came because the authenticity of our message. We were very, very transparent with what was going on. We spoke to everybody and anybody, whether they wanted to do a podcast, whether they wanted to do a newspaper piece, whether they wanted to talk to us on the phone. We spoke to anybody. And it was the honest truth of what we were putting out there, that we didn't know what was happening day to day. We didn't know about the future of some of these animals. There was questions about our pandas. There was questions about our penguins. But we went out there and talked. We opened our hearts, we opened our zoos to information and messages, and the response that we got was incredible.David Field: Do you know, I think Edinburgh fell in love with its zoo again. They began to value what they might just miss. And it was about the ... I truly believe it was the authenticity of our message and what people saw and heard from our zookeepers, from our conservation teams. And that work with the D and L team, the Discovery and Learning team, was incredible, because they didn't just put material online. They made it just a zoo visit online. They made it so interactive. They made it one on one. It was remarkable. It was just so exciting.Kelly Molson: I love what you said there about Edinburgh realises what they could potentially miss if the zoo wasn't ... if it didn't exist anymore. Have you seen, since the zoo has reopened, that you are getting a lot more kind of people ... a lot more local visitors? Have you seen that that's kind of increased, that people ... they are really loving Edinburgh Zoo again?David Field: I think so. I mean, Lisa might ... you might be able to give a bit more of the kind of stats and facts of it all. I look at it from a more emotive sense and you do just get that level of feeling that people believe in what we're doing and they're really supporting what we are doing. But I think one of the most remarkable things for me was when we did reopen and you saw people coming back into the zoo for the first time. And it was also a time when the families were probably meeting each other for the first time again, because we were one of the few places that were open, one of the few places where people could meet. And suddenly the emotion of people meeting in a place like the zoo, it was remarkable. And we tend to forget the social value of our visitor attractions for quality family time. And that period of just as we were starting to reopen, just emphasized it perfectly of how important the zoo was as a family place, a place for real quality time.Lisa Robshaw: Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. And the amount of people that were coming back that were saying, "I haven't been for years, and I'd forgotten how wonderful it was or it is." You still get that in the school playground, anecdotally, the mums going, "Oh my God, I can't believe you work at Edinburgh Zoo. You've done so much amazing work during lockdown. The kids have loved the films and all this kind of stuff." And you just go, wow, that social value is an absolute, really good point. And yeah, anecdotal evidence is that everyone did fall in love with the zoo again. It's incredible.Kelly Molson: And they're coming back in droves to show you that love now as well.Lisa Robshaw: Absolutely, yeah. Our visitor numbers this year have been amazing, better than ... I think summer 2020 was better than summer 2019. But we have to make ... or '21, sorry, was better than 2019. But we have to remember 2019's a pretty bad summer weather wise as well. But I do ... so couple the bad weather with this new affection and the fact that people haven't been able to go anywhere else, I mean, it's ... yeah. We're reaping the reward and the challenge is going to be keeping the momentum going into next year when we've got so more competition.Kelly Molson: Yeah.David Field: Absolutely. We've got to seriously up our game for the ... when the period sort of as we were reopening and lockdowns were being lifted, so people just wanted to get out and be local, there was a benefit there. People started to see, as Lisa said, actually this is a pretty, pretty great place. Look at all this exciting stuff that's going on. But now we've got to just keep going and maintaining that excitement and that wonderful visitor attraction element, which drives our charity mission, is essential. So it's challenging going forward.Kelly Molson: It is. And actually one of the questions I was going to ask you is about how you kept your team motivated through the pandemic. Because, like you said earlier, it's not just, you can't furlough a penguin, it's you can't furlough the penguin keeper. So you had a lot of people that were still coming into work during the pandemic because there was a need for them. They had to be there. But I guess an extra question to that is how do you now keep your team motivated to keep that excitement and keep that enthusiasm going, to keep drawing the people in again? So two different questions, or same question, but for two different situations there.David Field: Yeah. I think there's ... it's a really, really tough time for the staff. They're absolutely shattered. Staff such as the ... say the keeping staff, and I mean ... were coming through during the pandemic to work. So they weren't getting time off particularly. And even now our other teams, which are so crucial to making the place work and be great place to visit, there's so much going on that people can't take their ... are struggling to take their holidays because of the momentum that's going on. So people are tired.David Field: And then with the challenges that we are getting there with trying to recruit new people, where there is nobody to recruit, it is putting pressure on people. But it's humbling to work for a team like team RZSS, because they just step up and go above and beyond constantly. And it's the belief in what we do. It's the love of the animals. It's the love of the institution, that people step up to such an extent. And it's remarkable. But they are tired. And we would like to recruit more staff so that they could actually recover.Kelly Molson: We have Kate Nichols on from Hospitality UK, speaking with her next week about the recruitment challenge. So if you do have any questions that you'd like to pose to her, feel free to send them in, because I know that this is widespread right now. And if I'm honest, it's not just the attractions industry. We're struggling ourselves. Like I said, no joke society, if you have got web development skills hit me up. It is a huge challenge right now. And like you said, people are really, really tired. So there's still a long way to go to get everyone motivated and to keep everyone going. I really hear you on that.Kelly Molson: Lisa, I want to talk a little bit about what you said earlier about the birthday parties and some of the things that you did in terms of engaging with your audience while you couldn't open the zoo. Will you still carry on some of those things? And if so, are there any new things in development or anything that's coming up that you're quite excited about that you'd like to share with us?Lisa Robshaw: Yeah. I mean, the demand for the virtual birthday parties has obviously waned now. And actually they'll always be secondary to trying get these groups of kids into the zoo so they can actually, like David say, get close to nature and sort of be around the animals. That's our number one reason for being really, in terms of engagement. But that was great, to see the reactions and all that kind of thing. Not only because we tested it on my own six year old who had a second lockdown birthday, but also just the demand, and people by that point were wanting something different for their kids. That was great.Lisa Robshaw: I mean, one of the things I loved were the amount of companies that came out and actually wanted to work with us, and companies that traditionally the zoo have worked for ... worked with kind of on a sort of cursory ticket selling level. So hotels, for example. We had so many hotels that wanted to come and work with us in a completely different way. So one hotel wanted to do a giraffe themed bedroom, and a certain portion of percentage of the room rate would come to the hotel ... to the zoo. So I mean, I'm under no illusion, a lot of that was for PR and unusual ideas. But never before have we had hotels being that actively courting us.Lisa Robshaw: The big one is the Waldorf Astoria, the five star Waldorf Astoria Hotel, more sort of known as the Cally here in Edinburgh. And they did a zoo themed afternoon tea. Five pounds from every afternoon tea that they sold came to the zoo with an option to top up it to another five pound donation. And I think it was three and a half months that was for sale with, just as we were coming out of lockdown. So you could get home delivery or you could get the whole Waldorf Astoria experience. And they raised eight and a half thousand pounds.Kelly Molson: Wow.Lisa Robshaw: So you work out how many they sold. And that was a partnership we would never have had the opportunity to do had lockdown and COVID and the pandemic not happened. So that was fantastic. So moving forward, I'm really looking forward to working with loads of other different companies, in the next couple of ... next year or so. We've started that initiative with our art trail that we're doing next year, called Giraffe About Town. So this is one of the Wild In Art trails. You might remember things like Cow Parade. Here in Scotland we have the Oor Wullie Bucket trail, but they're popular all around the country. I think there's been Elmer Elephants in Luton, that were involved with. All this kind of thing.Lisa Robshaw: So we're going to have our own herd of 40 sponsored eight foot giraffes around the city of Edinburgh next summer. And at the moment we're going out and talking to companies about sponsoring those giraffes. And what ... this is a complete unknown of a project for me. I've never been involved in something like this to this scale before. But what is really heartening is that a variety of companies that are coming out and actually wanting to support their zoo, from big house builders to a company, a sort of a one man band who does synthesizer things for electric guitars and bands. It's just so random, but it's so amazing to see the outpouring of support that's happening.Lisa Robshaw: And also the public are really excited about ... Every time we talk about Giraffe About Town, there's people making arrangements to come to the city and have a weekend break so they can find all the giraffes. That's kind of our way of giving back to the city as well. So that's a really exciting initiative. Alongside the day job, it's quite hard work, but it's going to be so exciting. And the whole process is a whole new thing for me, from talking to sponsors, to people who create concrete plinths and these things to sit on and then looking at venues for auctions at the end to raise money for our wildlife conservation projects around the world. So yeah, that's a really exciting initiative and that would never ... we would never have taken that type of project on if it wasn't for the pandemic and have the confidence to do it.Kelly Molson: That's amazing, isn't it? That that's something so fabulous that has actually come out of something so horrendous.Lisa Robshaw: I'm going to have a lot of gray hair by the end of it. It's great that I am already. But already. I get quite emotional thinking about what the end result's going to be, and from people ... sort of companies actually getting a lot of extra PR and marketing value out of working with us, to people having a great time around Edinburgh and exploring parts of the city they've never explored, trying to tick off all their giraffes, to the impact they're going to make at auction with real money for charity. It's quite exciting.Kelly Molson: It feels like people want to take ownership of an experience in some way. They want to be part of it, not just come to visit. They want to be part of that for a longer period. Do you know what I mean? Like you come and visit the zoo and then you might adopt an animal, but actually being part of the walking trail, that's really kind of embedding yourself into that experience. Something that Gordon and I discussed actually, when we had it on, was the desire for more personalised experiences, that people want to do things that are not just the norm now. They want something that's really kind of tailored to them. Have you seen an increase in demand for your zoo experiences this year?Lisa Robshaw: Yeah. Massive. Massive demand, to the point where we're getting so booked up in advance. It's great, but you almost get to a situation where we can't fulfill some of them. So we're having to manage that really carefully to make sure that we don't lose the sale, but we're also managing people's expectations. But people want that experience. And if nothing else, the pandemic sort of reignited that passion. People don't just want a tangible kind of gift. It's this thing where ... that experience that people really want, which is ... we are just made for that kind of experience.David Field: I think that is really interesting with the need for personalised experience, but deeper and more emotive experiences. And I think that's a way ... not everybody who comes to the zoo can possibly have a personalised experience. We don't have enough animals. There's not enough time in the day. For all different reasons. I'm very lucky. I get that kind of contact with animals constantly. And people need that in their lives. They cry out for this contact with nature, and it makes people better.David Field: And somehow we got to deliver within the zoo more and more of these emotional experiences. We've got to get people to not just look at an animal from a distance, but when they go into the giraffe house now at the zoo, they don't just see animals. They're really, really close. They can smell them, they can hear them, they can almost taste them. That sounds a bit weird, doesn't it? But it's a full multisensory experience. It's a deeper meaning, which is why the zoo experience means so much more than something you just see on screen. It has to be ... we've got to make the hairs on people's necks sort of stand up, get them really emoting, get those emotions running about animals. Then people care about animals more and want to hear our messages about how we can do more to protect them or conserve them. So emotion is huge for us.Kelly Molson: And is that part of how you kind of inspire people to help you now? Because I guess the zoo ... we're heading into winter, so you're going to have less people visiting. I wanted to ask what the kind of shape of the zoo is as you head into winter this year. But I see that you've got the Help the Animals that you Love campaign still running. Is that something that you run all year through? Are you going to be doing a big kind of driver of that to kind of help get through the winter? Like where are you at?David Field: I mean, I think there's a couple of questions there. I mean, in terms of ... we will do various fundraising activities at different times. And there's a recent appeal gone out just for more of our general work. When there's some specific project, we might do other appeals. But I think where we are really trying to get to is that ... and we touched on it before, is that long term relationship with the zoo. And I said, the zoo is different, whether it's winter, summer, spring, autumn morning, noon, evening, it's always something different. So we want people to be able to experience that and really pushing our membership, pushing that long term relationship with the zoo. And really there's a cradle to grave relationship that you can have with the zoo. And that's what we want to achieve because it's more than just a visit.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it is. This is something that I saw Bristol Zoo has just said, that it's going to open its grounds to the public for free after it moves to a new home next year. Circling back to what you said earlier about the zoo being at the heart of the community and people falling back in love with Edinburgh Zoo, do you have any more initiatives to kind of connect with that local community aside from the walking trail that we've just discussed, which I think is an absolutely wonderful way of connecting with the local community? Have you thought about anything long term for the zoo where you get more of the community engaged with it?David Field: Well, I would say kind of watch this space, because we will be launching next year, a major part of our future strategy is about community and it's about using the unique resources of the zoo and the power of animals to do good, to actually build improved wellbeing in individuals and also in the communities where we work, helping to strengthen the communities where we work. That's really powerful for us. When Edinburgh Zoo first opened back in the early 1900s, it was designed by the social architect, Patrick Geddes, so it was a place where communities could come and walk and commune with nature outside of all the industrial areas and built up areas of Edinburgh. And we still appeal to that. That idea appeals to us, so that it is a place of sanctuary. It is a place where people can come.David Field: And we are undertaking a range of initiatives that we can link with the community. We already do that in many ways. We work with different community groups, both in Edinburgh and up at the Highland Wildlife Park. And we want to look at all of those barriers that are cultural, social health wise, which stops people getting to the zoo. We need to work with that. We need to work with local businesses, with local council, with Scottish government, in order that we can become the most inclusive and accessible visitor attraction, not just in Scotland, but in the UK and beyond.Lisa Robshaw: It's probably worth talking about Highland, Wildlife Park as well, the developments that will start next year for the Scotland's Wildlife Discovery Center. We've got HLF funding for some massive new developments at Highland Wildlife Park, which are just around that sort of engaging with the community, the people that would normally be able to have those experiences, getting close to nature and that kind of thing, and really telling the story of sort of Scotland's wildlife heritage as well. And no better place to do that than in the Cairngorms. So we're really excited about that project and that's going to be an absolute game changer for Highland Wildlife Park.Kelly Molson: Oh, can you share a little bit more about what makes it game changing? Or is this top secret information for the time being?David Field: No, not at all. I mean, there's been quite a lot of information out there about it already. And the Scottish Wildlife Discovery Center is ... it's a transformational project, both for the park and for the society because it will be ... in reality, it's a network of hubs that takes you on an expedition across the Highland Wildlife Park. But this expedition exposes you to the people, the place, and the animals of the Cairngorms. It brings the beauty of the Cairngorms and all the knowledge and information that we need the people that will come and visit.David Field: But we will have ... there's a large discovery centre where you can find all this information. There will be hubs, which overlook our wildcat breeding program project, and our peat restoration project. Then there's a wonderful new accessible learning hub, which will be open for the community as well so that we can bring people to the park that would never have dreamed of coming to the park before or wouldn't have been able to come to the park. But they'll be able to come for different events, community outreach. But it is designed so that we can celebrate the Cairngorms and the people, the place, and the animals therein.Lisa Robshaw: What he said.Kelly Molson: What David said. Do you know what's lovely? Is you speak ... there's a real sense of positivity in this interview. Whenever you both speak, there's a real kind of uplift and a real kind of sense of excitement about what's coming next. So it's been really lovely to hear that come through from you both.David Field: Oh, fantastic. Thank you. I mean, we work with animals. It's amazing. You're having a bad day, go and sit with the penguins.Kelly Molson: That is not dreadful, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, the closest I get is to picking up a dog if I'm having a bit of a bad day, but a penguin would top it.David Field: But that is ... it's so important to us. And it's not a trite statement, but we know that people just visiting a zoo, your stress levels just go down. We know that. We know that again, it's that quality social time. It's memories. It's access to nature. All of this is important for us from so many aspects. And the power of animals to do good is just ... it's beyond. They're amazing.Kelly Molson: Couldn't have said that any better myself, David. I totally agree with you. Thank you both for coming on the podcast today. I always like to end our interviews by asking if you have a book that you would recommend to our listeners. So it could be something that's helped you in your career. It could be something that you just ... you absolutely love. It's definitely not going to be Harry Potter. We know that. Hopefully Geoff is not listening to this, our past-Lisa Robshaw: I'm to going to get an invite to the Warner Brothers Studio at any time soon, am I?Kelly Molson: No, it's not happening, Lisa. But yes, I would like to ask you both if you've got a book that you'd like to recommend?Lisa Robshaw: I'll let David go first.David Field: Well, I love my books. Absolutely love my books. The Zoo Quest Expeditions by Attenborough were an inspiration to me. But more recently, it's The Invention of Nature: The adventures of Alexander van Humboldt. Amazing book by Andrea Wulf. Alexander von Humboldt, one of the greatest naturalists, a real kind of polymath that was there. He invented ecology. He saw climate change before anybody else. And it's so beautifully written and a real inspiration in terms of what he achieved. He's one of my scientific heroes.Kelly Molson: Fabulous. That's very topical. All right, that's David's one. Lisa, what about you?Lisa Robshaw: I'm now regretting asking David to go first. Mine is ... I'm not sure I'm allowed to swear on this podcast.Kelly Molson: You can.Lisa Robshaw: The Life-Changing Magic of Not Giving a F*ck.Kelly Molson: Excellent book.Lisa Robshaw: It was given to me, the actual book was given to me by a friend, God, probably about six or seven years ago when I was having a bit of a hard time. And David ... it'll probably make David smile, and my boss, Ben, but I give myself a really hard time over things sometimes. I just want things to be perfect all the time. It's quite topical at the moment. And actually, I just ... sometimes when I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed, I just go into this book and it reminds me that I can't control certain things. I just need to give a fuck about the things I can control and let go of the things I can't. I recommend it to so many friends that have found it useful as well. I know Ben, my boss, would probably want it to be like a bit of a marketing book that I'm recommending or something like that, I thought I really let him down with this. This is well worth a read.Kelly Molson: Lisa, I have read that book. It is an excellent book. So basically what we are recommending is grab a copy of that book, head to the zoo, go and sit by the penguins, life will be sweet.David Field: Perfect.Kelly Molson: All right, well, listen, listeners, as ever, you can have the chance to win copies of those books. So if you would like to win a copy of Lisa's book and David's book, then head over to this episode announcement and retweet it with the words, "I want David and Lisa's book," and we will put you ... books even, and we will put you in the draw to win a copy of each of them. Thank you very much. I really like those suggestions and I really am very grateful for you both coming on and sharing your experiences today with the listeners for the podcast. So thank you.David Field: You're more than welcome, Kelly.Lisa Robshaw: Thanks, Kelly.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. if you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. 

It's getting close to Christmas and we had some special visitors to our town recently to turn the Christmas lights on. Reindeer! Reindeer are of course very significant this time of year as it's Reindeer who famously pull Santa's sleigh. Did you know that Scotland has its own herd of reindeer, in fact they are the Uk's only free-ranging herd of reindeer living mainly in the Cairngorm mountains, close to the town of Aviemore. I'd like to tell you a bit about them today. Reindeer were actually native to the UK until around the 13th century but they unfortunately died out, becoming extinct for a number of reasons but probably due to climate change or hunting. They were eventually reintroduced in 1952 thanks to a Swedish man, Mikel Utsi. Mikel Utsi was born in Karesuando, northern Sweden, into a reindeer-owning Sàmi family and following his marriage and move to the UK, he was actually on his honeymoon in the Cairngorm mountains when he realised how similar the landscape and climate was to his homeland and decided to try to reintroduce Reindeer here. The Cairngorm mountain range has sub arctic conditions, the only part of the UK to do so and is often subjected to blizzards, snow and ice. The perfect environment for hardy reindeer. The first 7 reindeer were brought over from Sweden by ship and quarantined at Edinburgh Zoo before being released in the Cairngorm mountains. Over the years the herd has grown substantially and there are now 150 Reindeer, most freely roaming the Cairngorm mountain range. They aren't wild, every Reindeer has been named and a close eye is kept on them but they are mostly free to go where they want. If you go to the town of Aviemore you can visit the Reindeer Centre and take an organised hill trip up to the mountains to feed the reindeer who may even eat out of your hands! It's a wonderful experience to see these animals up close in their own environment. Some interesting facts about reindeer, they have 2 layers of fur to keep them warm and very wide hooves which are a bit like snow shoes and stop them from sinking into the snow. Both male and female reindeers can grow antlers and they can easily find food under the snow by using their hooves. They mostly eat grasses, moss shrubs and trees. In winter it's mostly lichen. Some of the reindeer have been trained to pull sleighs and they occasionally travel around the country in the run up to Christmas. As well as visiting the reindeer in their natural habitat you can also adopt one. For a small fee you can help support the work of the Reindeer Centre, run mostly by volunteers and receive regular updates on how your reindeer and the herd are doing. There are more than a 1000 supporters from all over the world. I hope you get a chance to visit these magnificent creatures one day. Thanks for listening. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/adventuresinenglish/message

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends April 29th 2022. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: www.linkedin.com/in/gordon-morrison01www.asva.co.ukhttps://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/scotlands-national-tourism-industry-conference-tickets-168074341881 Conference - Scotland's National Tourism Industry Conference November 24th-25th, 2021https://scottishtourismalliance.co.uk/speakers/ Gordon Morrison is the CEO of the Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions (ASVA), the representative body for the attractions sector in Scotland, a position he has held for the last 3 years. In this role, he has responsibility for the day-to-day operations and overall leadership of the organisation. Over the last 19 months, he has been instrumental in helping the sector in Scotland navigate a path through the pandemic, providing advice and guidance to attractions across the country and ensuring that the needs of the sector are heard within the corridors of power at Holyrood. He currently sits on a number of key industry groups, including the Scottish Tourism Recovery Taskforce, the Scottish Tourism Skills Group, the Scottish Thistle Awards Industry Panel and Scottish Tourism Emergency Response Sectoral Organisations Group.Gordon previously worked as Quality & Tourism Manager with VisitScotland where he was responsible for the delivery of the highly regarded Visitor Attraction Grading Scheme. He was also Commercial & Visitor Services Manager with Museums & Galleries Edinburgh where he led on shaping the visitor experience at iconic attractions such as the Scott Monument and Museum of Childhood.In over 15 years of working with the sector, Gordon has visited and offered advice to hundreds of different attractions across Scotland. He is universally known within the tourism industry as the authoritative voice on all things relating to the visitor attractions sector in Scotland.  Transcription: Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip The Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world.In today's episode, I speak with Gordon Morrison, CEO of ASVA, the Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions. We discuss the state of the Scottish attraction sector, the need for more personal premium experiences, and what's happening at Scotland's National Tourism Industry Conference. If you like what you hear, subscribe on all the usual channels by searching to Skip The Queue.Kelly Molson: Gordon, welcome to Skip The Queue.Gordon Morrison: Thank you so much for having me, Kelly. I'm guessing that you've started at the bottom and you're going to work your way up for the rest of the series.Kelly Molson: No, it doesn't work like that at all, started at the top, Gordon, started at the top. Now, as you know, I know that you listen to the podcast, so we're going into our icebreaker questions. I'm going to ask you what your favourite film is and why it isn't Top Gun.Gordon Morrison: Wow, that's a great question. And how did you know it's not a Top Gun because Top Gun is a wonderful movie. I am a child of the 1980s. I could be obvious and I could go down the Star Wars route because I am a big Star Wars fan. But however, undoubtedly, the greatest movie ever made is National Lampoon's Vacation.Kelly Molson: Yes, that's a great film.Gordon Morrison: It's just beautiful in every way. It is funny, it is moving, it is heartwarming, and it's also a bit crude. All of the things that I really enjoy. And I'm a huge Chevy Chase fan, a huge Chevy Chase fan. We had the opportunity to meet him a few years ago in London. He actually was over in London and I paid a considerable amount of money to do a meet and greet with the great man himself.Kelly Molson: That's amazing. I don't know anyone that's done one of those. This is-Gordon Morrison: Really?Kelly Molson: ... is news to me, no.Gordon Morrison: I would not do it for, probably not for anyone else, but for Chevy Chase, I was determined to meet him before he pops his clogs because he's getting on. He's getting on, he's an older man nowadays. I also love The Three Amigos as well I should say. And Steve Martin and Martin Short are also two fantastic comedy actors and they've actually got a great show on Disney Plus just now, which is well worth watching. But however, Chevy Chase is my idol. National Lampoon's Vacation, I don't know how many times I've watched it. But I can pretty much recite it.Kelly Molson: I love this. And National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation is-Gordon Morrison: Probably the second greatest movie of all time and becomes the greatest movie of all time at Christmas-Kelly Molson: At Christmas time, yeah. So I'm going to say that, is it my favourite Christmas film? It's definitely one or two. I think that and Home Alone are like the two, they're the ones that I would watch every single Christmas, got to watch those. Oh, this is great. I'm finding out so much about you today. Okay, if you had a human body, which you do, but the head of an animal, what animal would you pick?Gordon Morrison: That's an interesting question that I haven't thought about before, strangely enough. I think if I could have any animal's head, I'd want it to be a really cute puppy. That's what I'd want it to be. I think I've got some doglike qualities to me anyway. But yeah-Kelly Molson: Loyal.Gordon Morrison: Yeah, yeah. Very loyal, like to sniff my own bum, that sort of stuff. So yeah, I think a acute, maybe a Golden Retriever, a Labrador, because it'd also be quite useful to have a really powerful nose and be able to sniff out trouble and things like that. So yeah, but mainly because I do quite enjoy getting my head stroked, so it'd be quite nice to constantly have that happening to me.Kelly Molson: We are learning so much about you today, Gordon. I would go giraffe because as we met in person a little while ago, we are both slightly vertically challenged.Gordon Morrison: We are.Kelly Molson: So I thought giraffe would help me grab stuff from the top shelves.Gordon Morrison: So you're including the neck then as part of the-Kelly Molson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's part of your head, kind of, isn't it?Gordon Morrison: Yeah, absolutely.Kelly Molson: Okay. If you could be in the Guinness Book of Records, what records breaking feat you attempt?Gordon Morrison: I would attempt the longest continuous Elvis tribute act performance. I have said that Chevy Chase is my idol, he absolutely is, but I'm also a massive Elvis Presley fan, to the extent that I used to, on occasion, don the outfit and take the stage as Elvis Presley.Kelly Molson: Is there any video evidence of this?Gordon Morrison: No, there is not because it was the sort of mid to late '90s or early, it was early 2000s. It was early 2000s that I did this. And it was still really early stages of mobile phones and all that sort of stuff. So therefore, there is unfortunately, no... But listen, if you want me to record something, I'll do it.Kelly Molson: Well, I mean, I'm thinking at some point next year of doing, a group meetup for podcast guests and listeners. So maybe you could be the entertainment.Gordon Morrison: I have a gold lamé suit and I also have a jumpsuit. Whether I can still fit into them is an entirely different... But surely that looks even better. That's more authentic if I can barely fit into-Kelly Molson: Completely authentic, you are hired. Okay, and what is your unpopular opinion?Gordon Morrison: Sure, I'll go topical. Adele is rubbish.Kelly Molson: Oh God, oh wow.Gordon Morrison: Cannot stand anything that she does.Kelly Molson: Nothing at all?Gordon Morrison: Nope. I thin-Kelly Molson: Never had a little weepy moment to an Adele song?Gordon Morrison: Not once.Kelly Molson: You are stone cold.Gordon Morrison: Well, I've had a weepy moment, but the weepy moment is more I'm like, "Good grief, get this awful banshee off of my radio." I cannot stand anything that she does. I think her vocal style is lazy.Kelly Molson: Oh, Gordon.Gordon Morrison: I think she sings in a lazy way.Kelly Molson: I don't even know where to go with this, I really don't. Started with a bombshell people. Let's now-Gordon Morrison: Keeping it topical. That's good, isn't it? Come on, keeping it topical.Kelly Molson: It is topical. Let me know how you feel about that, listeners. I'm feeling uncomfortable. I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today. So Gordon and I, listeners, if you don't follow me... Oh, did I put this on? I think I'll put this on Twitter. If you don't follow me on Twitter, why not? But Gordon and I met in 2020. We met in COVID times, but we met virtually. So we didn't actually see each other when we first met. Gordon and I were at the Visitor Attractions Conference, which actually brilliant, a brilliant virtual conference in 2020 that they were forced to do because of COVID. And Gordon came to visit me on my virtual stand, which if you've ever done a virtual stand at a virtual conference, it's a very, very lonely place.Kelly Molson: Not many people come and check in on you. It's hard enough when it's an actual stand and you have to drag people to speak to you. But a virtual one, yeah. It's tough times. But anyway, Gordon came over, had a little chat, and then we arranged to have a Zoom meeting, which we then had a great Zoom meeting. But I was a bit poorly and I did it in my pajamas because that's how all the best Zoom in start, in your pajamas. And then since then, we've gone on to do a few webinars for ASVA and their members. And the two of us have spoken quite a few times. And we actually got to meet in real life a couple of weeks ago, didn't we? At the Visitor Attractions Conference.Gordon Morrison: Obviously lovely to meet you in person and see other people I've only communicated with via this medium before. So it was quite special actually, it really was quite special. And it was lovely to see just how diminutive you are, Kelly, such a big personality, such a diminutive form.Kelly Molson: Big gob, small stature, I think that's how I would be described. So tell us a little bit about ASVA and what your role is there.Gordon Morrison: Okay. So ASVA is short for the Association of Scottish Visitor Attractions. We are the trade body that represents the attraction sector in Scotland. We have over 250 member organisations, which equates to roughly 500 visitor attractions all across the country. I'm the Chief Executive. I've been chief executive there for three years. A particularly interesting last two years, as I'm sure you can imagine.Kelly Molson: Yep.Gordon Morrison: And really, the organisation almost like the way that our members have had to pivot during the pandemic, ASVA had to pivot during the pandemic. We certainly existed, initially, to provide inspiration and best practice. That really what we were there to do, shine a light on all that was great and good happening, not just in the attraction sector in Scotland, but nationally and internationally as well. During the pandemic, we really had to become much more of a lobbying organisation. I had to cut my lobbying teeth very quickly, Kelly and was fortunate to work with some great people within the industry, that helped me with that as well.Gordon Morrison: I know that you had Bernard on your podcast the other week, who's a very experienced lobbyist. And I learned from people like him. We also had to take everything online as an organisation, which is truly fascinating for us because we were an organisation that did everything in person, absolutely everything in person. We are 32 years old and had never once hosted an online event, online meeting. Then, pandemic hits, everything changes. And we have now run something like 60 online workshops or events throughout the pandemic. All about supporting the sector, helping the sector get through to where we are today, which is still not in a perfect situation. There are still many challenges ahead for the industry.Gordon Morrison: But ASVA played a hugely important role in informing the sector, and supporting the sector, and fighting for the sector throughout the pandemic. At the height of the pandemic, we were actually producing daily bulletins that went out across the entirety of the industry, about what they needed to know. All very much tailored to the visitor attraction sector, nothing cut and pasted from any other areas. It was all tailored specifically to visitor attractions. We've had many, many meetings with the Scottish government in particular, but also the UK government as well, to highlight just how desperate it was for a spell, just how desperate it was for a spell.Gordon Morrison: And we were successful in getting funding for the visitor attraction sector in Scotland, which I was particularly proud that we were able to do. And indeed, we helped to ensure that when we got the funding, that funding went to the right places and went to the attractions that needed it the most. And therefore, we got ourselves into a situation where our sector has not had the catastrophic failure that we feared it may have had. Well, things are still not great. And I know we'll talk about that shortly. We are now seeing, hopefully, some of the green shoots of recovery and we'll get the sector back on an even keel in 2022.Kelly Molson: That's really good to hear and we are going to talk about that in a minute. But I just want to, just something that you mentioned about how when this all kicked off, when the pandemic happened, I mean, that must have been unbelievably overwhelming for you. Because not only are you looking at your own organisation and saying, "Wow, we have got to change absolutely every way that we've done things in the past, everything has to change now. We can't do any in person whatsoever." So having to deal with all of that whilst also, like you say, learning how to lobby. So putting hat on, and then being there as a support. And I guess a shoulder for people to cry on, scream at, shout out, whatever they needed to do, for all of your members as well. That must have been an unbelievably overwhelming time. How did you feel?Gordon Morrison: Yeah. I mean, overwhelming is the correct word. And of course, none of us had ever been through anything like this before. That's the other thing, there was no guide book for this. There was nowhere for me to turn and say, "What have you done when we've previously seen a pandemic such as this?" We had never seen anything like this before. You mentioned being a shoulder to cry on or cry at, that genuinely happened on quite a lot of occasions. I had members phone me up in tears, sometimes angry tears, sometimes just sad tears. And that was particularly challenging. When sometimes you didn't have answers, you couldn't just tell them, "Oh, everything is going to be okay." Because it didn't necessarily look like everything was going to be okay.Gordon Morrison: I think for me, there was one crucial decision that I made, which at the time didn't actually feel crucial. But we looked at ourselves and our own operation at ASVA, and we're a pretty small team, Kelly. Well, at the time, there was only three of us working for the organisation. And I was and still am the only full-time member of staff. ASVA, we've got two and a half full-time equivalent staff working for us at the moment. We had, at the height of the pandemic, just two full-time equivalent staff working for us. We had an office in Glasgow and I took the decision that whilst we would get rid of our office and felt that we didn't need an office anymore, we would not scale down our operations. We were there to support our sector.Gordon Morrison: We would actually scale up. We would do more to support the sector, which it was a difficult decision because the obvious thing to do was protect the business. And so therefore, why don't we put the team on furlough and you'll ride this through? But however, it was a no brainer for me in the end to say, "No, we are there to support our sector." Therefore, like I said, we scaled up what we did. We pushed everything online, we learned really fast. I developed really close contacts within the Scottish government as well. Not necessarily always talking to the ministers, officials are often the right people to get in front of and talk to.Gordon Morrison: And as a result, ASVA actually grew. We were really worried at the beginning of the pandemic that we would lose members, obviously, because you think, "Well, who can afford a membership fee when they've got huge, huge financial problems?" But actually, what we found was that not only did we retain our members, we grew our membership because of that desire that we had to truly, genuinely support the industry. And I have to thank my own board as well, the Board of Directors of ASVA, for giving me steer on what the industry needed. We've got 12 board members, who all work within the attraction sector. And they were there at a drop of a hat every time I needed them.Gordon Morrison: I said, "Right, what do we think of this? What do we think of this new guidance that's come out from the Scottish government? What does that mean for our sector?" And I could then feedback because the Scottish government were very much looking for me to feedback from the attraction sector and say, "Right, this is what this will mean. This is what will happen to the attraction sector if you do this." But I do think that decision to scale up, rather than contract and just try and save ourselves was the crucial, crucial decision. Crucial decision for ASVA, but also for the sector as well. Because we really did step up to another level at that point.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's brilliant. I mean the amount of content that went out, and the webinars that you put on, and the research, which we'll talk a little bit about now actually. Because throughout the pandemic, you were surveying the sector, finding out what was happening, where they were at, what the visitor numbers were like. And you've just released the latest survey, which was conducted by the Moffitt Center, which let me read this out.Kelly Molson: It reveals that a majority of Scottish attractions are still in survival mode, which is not surprising. The sector is not seeing any evidence of a staycation boom. And obviously, the press have talked about staycation boom a lot. I think UK attractions have mixed results in that, depending on where they are located up and down the country. But Scotland seems to not be seeing any evidence of that. So can we talk about that? How's the sector currently feeling?Gordon Morrison: So I think firstly, on the point about being in survival mode, that is still the case universally, I would say, doesn't matter which part of the UK you're in. I think that the vast majority of the sector is still in survival mode, rather than recovery mode. Actually, I was fortunate enough to attend the Association of Visitor Experience and Attractions Conference in Ireland, attended that virtually and it was exactly the same narrative there. That are still in survival, but looking towards a recovery. And that's where our sector is in Scotland. We are in survival mode, but very optimistic that we will recover, rather than now thinking we are going to lose 50%, whatever, of the sector.Gordon Morrison: But in terms of the staycation boom, it's been a really... This is an area where I've been banging in my head against the wall sometimes, Kelly, because it's actually impossible for the majority of visitor attractions in Scotland and indeed in other parts of the UK, or it has been impossible for us to truly benefit from the staycation boom. Because don't get me wrong. I agree that there have been lots of domestic visitors, there have been lots of people going on holiday in the UK because frankly, they've got no other opportunity or no other option than to go on holiday in the UK. But there have been restrictions in place and let's not forget this.Gordon Morrison: There have been restrictions in place in Scotland, on things like well, we call it physical distancing, social distancing in England. These restrictions weren't lifted in Scotland. We still had physical distancing restrictions in place right through to mid August. And if you've got restrictions in place that limit, that severely limit the number of visitors that you can physically get in your door, you can be at capacity. You can be, "Right, we're at 100% capacity." Which sounds fantastic. But that 100% capacity is actually only 20, 30% of where you would normally be. And therefore, we have missed the majority of the traditional season. And by missing the majority of the traditional season, you're then left with a very small window of opportunity, sort of mid August to October holidays, just beyond October holidays, to make your money.Gordon Morrison: And that's a very limited window. Let's be honest, that really is. And that's why our sector's still in survival mode as we go into the winter. I think perhaps one of the most telling stats from the survey was in relation to the amount of reserves that attractions still had. And we've got more than one in five visitor attractions in Scotland, holding fewer than three months reserves, right? Why is that important? That is important because the winter is longer than three months and you need those reserves. In a good year, you need those reserves to see you through the winter. That's how attractions operate. They make the money in the summer, to then see them through the winter. So that's where the issues still exist for our sector. And again, it was interesting at the Irish conference, to see that the latest budget has just been published by the Irish government.Gordon Morrison: And they have pledged to continue their version of the Coronavirus job retention scheme right through to spring of next year. And they've also pledged an extra 50 million euros of support for tourism businesses, to get them through to next season. And I think that's very telling that they have recognized the call that's come from the tourism industry in Ireland is, "We are still in survival mode. Let us get through to next season when we will fully lead the recovery." And I think that's a lesson that still needs to be heard in both Scotland and the UK. Because there seems to be a feeling that, "Well, you have made it through. Well done, guys, you've made it through." But there's still a proportion of the sector that will face a very difficult winter ahead.Kelly Molson: So are you still in lobbying mode then? Because it feels like-Gordon Morrison: Oh, must be.Kelly Molson: Yeah, so the sector still needs support. So the results of this survey say that very, very clearly. So you're still in lobbying mode.Gordon Morrison: Yeah, yeah. There's no doubt about that. I mean, the survey is produced. We like to do it for our members and they can get an idea of where they are sitting in comparison to other parts of the sector. But primarily, I'll be fully honest with you, we do it so that I can use it in my lobbying efforts. The first person that received this survey results, was the tourism minister. The very first person. I was like, "Bang, here you go. Can we now meet and discuss this?" Don't get me wrong, it's a challenge because there's also an element of politics being played in the UK, as you'll know, Kelly.Gordon Morrison: The fact that the Scottish government takes a different route from the UK government, sometimes that that route is taken for, as far as I'm concerned, for political reasons, to create a differentiation. But also, that there are challenges with things. But when I speak to the tourism minister and say, "We really could use the Coronavirus job retention scheme extended, or we could cut to be extended further." Those are not really issues that he can do much about, other than agree. Other than say, "Yes, I 100% agree with that." That's then reserved at the UK level, which is why it's hugely important that I also feed into the lobbying that's done at a UK level as well, by the likes of Bernard and others.Kelly Molson: Yeah, okay. So let's have a look more at some of the stats that have come in. So it says here, almost half, so 47.5% of the sector has seen a decrease in visitor numbers of greater than 50% this year compared to the same period in 2019. I mean again, that's not shocking, is it? Because, like you say, you've had so many restrictions still in place for longer than in the UK attractions.Gordon Morrison: That's entirely it.Kelly Molson: And it says turnover is down by over 50%, a third of attractions when compared to the same period in 2019. Again, not a shock, is it? None of this is a surprise.Gordon Morrison: No.Kelly Molson: What can be done about it? What's the positives that can taken from it?Gordon Morrison: Well, yeah. I think that's important to emphasize here, Kelly, is that, don't get me wrong, when I'm doing my lobbying, I'm painting the doom and gloom picture to the government to try and leverage as much support as we can get. But however, there are positives emerging from the pandemic. Just now, for a start, when you delve into the data in a bit more detail, it's clear that the numbers are getting better. We are seeing an improving picture just now. And indeed, you mentioned yourself, it depends on what type of business that you have and where in the country you're located. If you were to look at, for example, wildlife related attractions or animal related attractions, they're booming.Gordon Morrison: They are absolutely booming, or least the majority of them are booming just now. We just published our visitor figures for ASVA members, for the month of August. So that's the most recent data that we've got and the wildlife operators were up by 14% on 2019 levels.Kelly Molson: Oh, wow, wow.Gordon Morrison: Yeah, they're up on 2019, which is incredible, that really is. I mean, primarily driven by the huge popularity of Edinburgh Zoo, it has to be said, which you can imagine, if you're an outdoor family attraction, it's a good time for you. Speaking as a dad, you are desperate to take your kids somewhere. You are absolutely desperate to do that. And a zoo is an absolutely fantastic place to take the kids. So it's not universally the case that things are awful. That's the first point.Gordon Morrison: And we are seeing a generally improving picture month upon month. If you look at the figures from July compared to June, compared to July compared to August. It's going in the right to direction. And of course, we have now got rid of the physical distancing restrictions entirely, which releases the sector to actually begin to trade at a viable level. Although, interestingly, in the survey, we did ask members whether they were maintaining restrictions themselves and many, many were. In fact, we had, was it 92% of the sector said that they were going to maintain COVID safety measures above and beyond what was required by law. And that again is useful for me when it comes to lobbying. Because what it shows is that our sector puts the safety of visitors and staff above everything else.Gordon Morrison: You cannot necessarily say that about every sector in the UK. But for our sector, we have consistently proven, throughout the pandemic, that we are putting safety and wellbeing above everything else. And therefore, for me, if there are... We're seeing COVID spiking again, let's not beat around the bush here. The number of cases is at, I think it's highest level for something like six, seven months. It's a huge, huge increase. If further restrictions are introduced again, I think it's... But I've already spoken to the Scottish government about this as well. Our sector's the one sector that actually, you're not seeing any transmission come from, because we are very, very responsible. And I would hope that that would be recognised if restrictions get introduced again.Kelly Molson: Well, I was going to ask about the locality thing. So obviously in the UK, during lockdown, there was a lot of appreciation for where you lived. I think that's how we looked at it. People went out on their hour's walk of exercise, and then they found new places to visit. But they actually, you've seen that kind of boost in tourism to the local places, people shopping more local. And again, that was happening prior to pre-pandemic, that was a trend anyway. But I think we're still seeing that happen. People stay local, people visiting. Is it the same in Scotland? Are you finding that?Gordon Morrison: Absolutely. And on top of the fact that we're getting more of a sense of place. And I think attraction operators are actually understanding that sense of place a bit better as well. On top of that, the visitors that are coming to see us, our local bread and butter visitors, are spending money, Kelly, they really are spending money. And that is a key lesson that we need to take away from this. Secondary spend in shops and in cafes is considerably up on pre-pandemic levels across the board. Now that's a combination, I think visitors have maybe got a wee bit of disposable income to spend after being stuck in lockdown for a long period of time.Gordon Morrison: Also, they want to spend. They want to get there and spend some money. And indeed, they are having a good experience. And that's probably the crucial point here. Again, looking at the results from a most recent survey, we asked a question about, right, what's happened to your visitor reviews? Are your visitor reviews on Trip Advisor, on Google, whatever platform you use, are they improving? Are they getting worse? And for the majority of the sector, the reviews have actually improved throughout the pandemic. And that is because visitors have had more time, more staff interaction, and a more personalised experience.Gordon Morrison: Now, by having that, more time, more personalised experience, they then are more inclined to spend more. And this is not your rich international visitor. This is not an international visitor who's going to want to take back an expensive souvenir. This is a local domestic visitor, who's coming to your attraction and they are having a really great experience and therefore. They're spending money. And that is the key lesson that I think we have to take. And the key positive that we can take, out of the pandemic, which is that I think attractions have had the opportunity, in the various lockdowns, to take a breath almost, to think about their offering and what they're doing for their visitors.Gordon Morrison: I think, are we doing everything we can do to ensure that our visitors get a great experience? Is the model of cram as many visitors into your attraction as possible, the right model that we want to operate? And it's proven to be throughout the pandemic, that that is not what we should be doing. What we should be doing is providing a high quality experience, which then encourages the visitors that we do have to spend a bit more money with us. And that's where we're going now, that's the direction of travel that we're going in. We're not going to see pre-pandemic levels of visitation for many, many years, possibly ever again.Gordon Morrison: And I've spoken about this before in various meetings that I've attended. If we take somewhere like Edinburgh Castle, as an example, Edinburgh Castle, over 2 million visitors in 2019. If you speak to Historic Environment of Scotland about that. First it was, you're a big success to have that number of visitors. Was it actually great for the castle itself? Was it great for the visitor experience? Certainly not as good as it could be. Therefore, we should be moving more to the model of, it's been spoken about it before, value rather than volume. And that is where we are 100% going. And I think that's going to be really positive for the sector.Gordon Morrison: And also, I think the sector actually now begins to understand what their value is. And the fact that attractions in Scotland and across the UK are actually offering really unique, memorable experiences, really fantastic experiences. And shouldn't be scared, therefore, to charge accordingly for those experiences. And we have seen some of our operators in Scotland have increased the pricing or are delivering a premium version of their standard experience and charging a bit more to do that. And that, to me, is the way that we should be going as a sector and we will continue to go as a sector.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I totally agree. It's weird actually, I gave a talk for Anglia Ruskin University back in summer about that very concept of attractions having less visitors, a more personalised experience that they will pay more money for. So ultimately, less visitors doesn't mean less revenue.Gordon Morrison: Exactly.Kelly Molson: That's exactly where I see the sector going. And that actually leads really nicely onto a new attraction that's opened, that has that mentality. And that's the Johnnie Walker Experience that's just opened, which looks absolutely incredible. And I know that you've been lucky enough to go and visit already, haven't you?Gordon Morrison: Yeah. And it is actually the perfect model, Kelly, for what we've just spoken about there. It's an outstanding visitor experience, it's truly unique and it's personalised to yourself. The way I've talked about it since I've been is that you go in and you're immediately met, firstly with a smiling face, which is always a nice thing to be met with. Although, behind the mask, but still a smiling face. And you're instructed to create your own flavour profile for your best ever Johnnie Walker drink.Gordon Morrison: It's like the Tinder of whiskey. You're swiping left or swiping right on whether you like mango, or whether you like apple, or whatever. And it then creates your ideal flavour profile. You get a wristband that is colour coded. And when you go up to experience the next part of the experience, you present this wristband to a dispenser and it pours for you, your ideal highball, Johnnie Walker highball. It's incredible. I don't know how it works. For all I know just everyone's getting the exact same highball. I don't-Kelly Molson: Ah, but the experience is that it's personalised to you.Gordon Morrison: That's exactly right. And what Johnnie Walker, what Diageo have successfully done with this experience, is they've said, "Right, we're not going to create a high volume, low value experience." They limit the numbers on their tours to a really low level. It's never going feature at the top 10 most visited attractions in Scotland or the UK. It's never going to feature on there because they're limiting the numbers. But I'm sure they wouldn't mind me saying this, unashamedly charging a premium for it. It's 25 quid if you want to take that experience, which in an attraction ticket entry place, is a high price point, it is a high price point to do that. But that is because you're going to get a unique, personalised experience. And of course, they'll chuck it in a high ball as well, which is a nice thing.Kelly Molson: Oh, high praise indeed. I've got to give my friend, my good friend, Kazia, is actually the Brand Home Experience Manager at Johnnie Walker. So I hope that she's listening. She'll be thrilled to hear such fabulous feedback.Gordon Morrison: That is a must visit, Kelly. I'm not just saying that because they're ASVA members. But anyone who gets the opportunity to visit Edinburgh, it's a truly unique experience. And topped off by this incredible rooftop bar that has got the best panoramic views over Edinburgh. Edinburgh Castle will argue they have the best panoramic views of the city. But what the Johnnie Walker Princes Street has got, is a view of the castle as well.Kelly Molson: And they haven't got the whiskey, have they? Let's face-Gordon Morrison: That's true. That is true.Kelly Molson: They've not got the whiskey to have up there. I really would like to see where this leads. I would love other attractions adopting this model. So it'll be really interesting to catch up, maybe a year from now and see how attractions have kind of shifted their offer in Scotland, to see if they follow suit in terms of this kind of premium level, better experience, less visitor numbers.Gordon Morrison: I think they're have to, Kelly. That's the interesting thing here is that I still speak to you lot of my members, who are waiting for things to go back to normal. That's how they put it, "I can't wait for things to go back to normal." And my answer to that is that they're not going to go back to normal. There is pre-pandemic times and then there is post-pandemic times or pandemic times, because the pandemic's not going away.Gordon Morrison: We're still going to have COVID-19 for many years to come. And I think that the sector has to embrace this now and say, "Okay. Well, if we are not going to have those pre-pandemic level of visitation, we all have to adapt our experiences." And without doing a shameless plug, but why not? We hosted a conference this year in November and that is a big theme of the conferences, is looking at how you are shaping, how you are creating those memorable experiences in this new normal that we live in. And we'll be really shouting from the rooftops about that.Kelly Molson: Let's talk about the conference. So Scotland's National Tourism Industry Conference, 24th to the 25th of November. This is a culmination really, of all of the support that you've been giving to your members throughout the pandemic anyway. So what's going to be there? Why should people come?Gordon Morrison: Yeah. I mean, firstly, we're absolutely delighted to be hosting it, both in person and online. Again, one of the great things for ASVA actually, throughout the pandemic, Kelly, was that we delivered this host of great workshops online, including some with yourself of course. And it opened us up to a much bigger audience. When we're delivering in person events, we were delighted if we got, say 40 people to attend one of our workshops, maybe 50 people to attend one of our workshops. And I thought, "That's a great turnout, that's really great." And all often from the central belt of Scotland, everyone from Edinburgh or Glasgow. Whereas, when we hosted events online, we opened it up to a much larger audience.Gordon Morrison: And we had our members from Shetlands, from Hebrides, and far flung areas, joining as in taking part in these sessions. So therefore, when it came to the conference this year, we had a clear idea that we wanted to do it in person because we think the sector wants to get by it together. But it also needed that online element as well. So regardless of where you are, and indeed, regardless of whether you're an ASVA member, you can actually attend the conference virtually if you would like to do so. We're also doing it in partnership with other leading associations in Scotland, including the Scottish Tourism Line. So sort of the overarching Tourism Association representing the attraction sector. And we're doing that intentionally, because we want to not just bring attractions together, we want to bring the whole industry, the entirety of the Scottish tourism industry together, as much to celebrate that we've made it this far as anything else.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's really important to acknowledge that, isn't it? It's been so tough.Gordon Morrison: It's been massively, massively difficult. And we've all had many stresses and strains throughout the pandemic. Not all of us have given birth to a child, of course, Kelly, which is even bigger stress and strain. But about, however, it has been a hugely difficult time. And we want to bring the sector together to just say, "Pat on the back. Well done guys, we have made it through to this level. Now, let's push on. Now, let's push on to the next level."Gordon Morrison: And that is what the theme of the conference really is about. So I'm leading one of the days of the conference and I'm really excited about the part that I'm leading, which is all about delivering memorable experiences as we move into the year of Scotland Stories 2022. Yeah, Scotland has themed years every year. There's a tourism related theme year. So this year we're in the year, of course, of waters, for example. And like I said, next year we move into the year of Scotland Stories, which is a wonderful theme year for visitor attractions, because we're all about storytelling, that's what we're all about-Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's perfect.Gordon Morrison: Yeah, exactly. So, so we are really, every part of the conference has got some link to delivering memorable experiences and delivering great stories. But what we're trying to do, Kelly, is really put it in a, not an airy fairy way at all, as in put it in a commercial way. Say, "Right, this is what delivering a great story will mean for your business. This is how you can actually improve business performance, by delivering these great stories." And we've got a host of wonderful speakers coming along. If you don't mind me saying it, I'm most excited about the fact that we've got the Creative Director from Walt Disney Imagineering joining us, to talk about the galactic star cruise experience that Walt Disney World is introducing next year, which is-Kelly Molson: That's a clever coup, isn't it? You've got that speaker, it's amazing.Gordon Morrison: That's a mind blowing story. They don't even call it storytelling, let's call it a story living experience because you actually go and live on a star cruiser in the Star Wars Universe for two days. Kelly, I'm there. I am there.Kelly Molson: It's blowing your mind, isn't it, Gordon? I can see.Gordon Morrison: Oh my goodness, yeah. But actually referring back to what we spoke about earlier, what's interesting about it is, that's a premium experience, that's about as premium as it gets. They are not ashamed of the fact that they are charging $6,000 for a two night experience, $6,000. And they know that they will get an audience for that.Kelly Molson: Oh yeah.Gordon Morrison: But that's because it is a high quality, truly unique storytelling experience. And those are the lessons that we're looking for, on a smaller scale to take. I'm not saying to our members, "Right, the way you create memorable experiences, have light saber jewels throughout it." As much as love that, I would love that and the Johnnie Walker Princes Street, that'd be fantastic.Gordon Morrison: I think what attractions need to do is think about what their unique stories can be. And then implement those storytelling experiences at their attractions. And they will find that they can charge an appropriate level to their visitors, because visitors will eat these things up. They will want these truly unique, different experiences. And so that's what we're covering at the conference. And it's going to be a wonderful couple of days, it really is.Kelly Molson: It really sounds like it. And I will be there virtually. I'd love to be there in real life next year, definitely. I don't think that tiny person that I gave birth to will be too comfortable with me leaving her for a couple of nights, to head up to Scotland. Thank you for sharing that. I do think that that conference is going to be a real celebration of just like you say, yes, we've absolutely made it. We've made it this far. Now, what can we do to push on and be better? Open better, that's what we need to be driving the message of. And that's absolutely going to do that at that conference. So I'm super excited about it.Gordon Morrison: Thank you.Kelly Molson: We are at the end of our podcast interview. And I always ask our guests for a book recommendation, so something that you love or something that's helped shape your career. Just something that you'd like to share with our listeners.Gordon Morrison: I had a long think about this, Kelly, what I would recommend for a book, I'm an educated man. I'm a historian. I could recommend some really great historical texts and some very worthy books that have helped to educate me and take me to the level that I am today.Kelly Molson: I feel like you're not going that way though.Gordon Morrison: I'm not going to go that way at all, because it's not actually who I am. I am deeply in love, deeply in love with Calvin and Hobbes. I don't know if you've ever read any Calvin and Hobbes before.Kelly Molson: I haven't, no.Gordon Morrison: So for those who don't know, it's a comic strip effectively, a newspaper comic strip from the United States that has been brought into a whole series of different collections that are available in all good book shops. And it's two characters. Calvin is a five-year-old boy and Hobbes is his tiger. And Hobbes is a stuffed tiger, who only comes to life in front of Calvin. And there's a question about whether Hobbes is real and just no one else gets to see him as being real or whether it's all in Calvin's imagination.Gordon Morrison: And Calvin is a wee cynical, hilarious boy, and Hobbes is a much more stoic and measured character. And combined, they have these incredible adventures. And it really is, it's a moral compass thing, that's the only way I can put Calvin and Hobbes. Calvin and Hobbes is a moral compass thing. You can read Calvin and Hobbes and it will set you straight on the path that you need to be going on because they are righteous. They are genuinely righteous. And it's also hilarious. It is one of the most hilarious things you could ever read.Gordon Morrison: But my favourite... I mean, any of them are good, Kelly. Because I know you'll then say, right, here's one that you can look at. I would say that There's Treasure Everywhere is a great compendium. And the last one that was ever produced is called It's A Magical World. And it has the most beautiful end story of any story you can ever want to read. And the last words of it are, "It's a magical world." And I'm actually, I can feel my emotions rising as to talk about it just now. So Calvin and Hobbes, It's A Magical World. I would urge everyone in the world to read it. You'll feel like a million dollars.Kelly Molson: Ah, what an absolutely wonderful book recommendation to end this podcast interview on, that's perfect. As ever, if you want to win a copy of Gordon's book, then head over to our Twitter account, which is Skip The Queue and retweet this episode announcement with the comment, I want Gordon's book. And you could be in with the chance of winning it. I feel all emotional. This is how I feel when I listen to Adele.Gordon Morrison: Oh, oh, you've just ruined it.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.

This week's news: Erebus Haunted Attraction adds 2 new mazes; Vancouver's Stanley Park Ghost Train canceled due to coyotes; Mars Wrigley developed a formula to plan your candy purchases; Temptations Cat Treats celebrate Halloween with "Tasty Human" flavor;Amusement Today announces 2021 Golden Tickets; Edinburgh Zoo hosts first Spooktacular; Fear Island returns to Fantasy Island; Midnight Terror Haunted House doubles run for 2021 season; Cemetery Lane: Trick-R-Treat Experience comes to Heritage Square Museum; UNDead In The Water opens in new location; It's Alive extends run throughout October; House of Horror Haunted Carnival 2021 returns to Miami with 4 haunts; Nightmare Before Tinsel themed pop-up bar opens "The Devil's Lair"; IHOP becomes International Haunted House of Pancakes for October; Candy.com releases 10 Best & Worst candy lists; 7-Eleven reveals fall-themed offerings. Read the full list: https://mailchi.mp/hauntedattractionnetwork.com/haunt-news-sept-20

This week's news: Erebus Haunted Attraction adds 2 new mazes; Vancouver's Stanley Park Ghost Train canceled due to coyotes; Mars Wrigley developed a formula to plan your candy purchases; Temptations Cat Treats celebrate Halloween with "Tasty Human" flavor; Amusement Today announces 2021 Golden Tickets; Edinburgh Zoo hosts first Spooktacular; Fear Island returns to Fantasy Island; Midnight Terror Haunted House doubles run for 2021 season; Cemetery Lane: Trick-R-Treat Experience comes to Heritage Square Museum; UNDead In The Water opens in new location; It's Alive extends run throughout October; House of Horror Haunted Carnival 2021 returns to Miami with 4 haunts; Nightmare Before Tinsel themed pop-up bar opens "The Devil's Lair"; IHOP becomes International Haunted House of Pancakes for October; Candy.com releases 10 Best & Worst candy lists; 7-Eleven reveals fall-themed offerings. Read the full list: https://mailchi.mp/hauntedattractionnetwork.com/haunt-news-sept-20

Ali and Sam are back for The FFS Show episode 14. This week we discuss some misleading headlines on guidance for trans young people in schools. Also Ali removes the joy from a classic viral claim about penguins falling over at Edinburgh Zoo, while Sam becomes the 'man of the people'.The music for this show is by Kevin Hartnell, under a CC BY-SA 4.0 licence.

In Episode 5 we chat to David Field, CEO of the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland, which runs both Edinburgh Zoo and the Highland Wildlife Park. The Royal Zoological Society of Scotland (RZSS) is a registered charity which has been working to promote awareness and conservation of rare and endangered animals for over 100 years. David talks about his route in the zoo world (from zookeeper to CEO), how life has been over the last year, and how the zoo inspires him personally. We discuss the role of a good zoo today, why engagement is so important, and how listeners at home can support the amazing work of zoological collections. Overall, it's clear that David's passion and dedication shines through in RZSS's mission statement - to connect people with nature and safeguard threatened species. Support RZSS Edinburgh Zoo and the Highland Wildlife Park here: Website – www.rzss.org.uk Facebook – @RZSSofficial @EdinburghZoo @highlandwildlifepark Twitter – @rzss @HighlandWPark @EdinburghZoo Instagram - @rzssofficial @edinburghzoo @highlandwpark Follow Wee Blue Dot - we're social animals! Facebook - @WeeBlueDot Twitter - @weebluedot Instagram - @weebluedot WBD LinkedIn Email - weebluedot@gmail.com Music: "Savannah (Sketch)" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Tian Tian the panda at Edinburgh Zoo was artificially inseminated over the weekend. However, Marty had a bit of a pronunciation fail when it came to the name of the male panda... Arlene almost had to be picked up off the floor.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends March 31st 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:www.digitalvisitor.comwww.linkedin.com/in/simontjonesWith nearly three decades worth of visitor attraction experience, Simon Jones has a unique background and understanding of the issues faced by visitor attractions.Before co-founding Digital Visitor 15 years ago, Simon managed science centres and large-scale attractions including household names such as Sea Life, IMAX Cinemas and At-Bristol (now We the Curious). Knowing what it is like working brand-side has given Simon a unique perspective of a client's challenges, as it is likely he faced the same challenge himself. Nowadays, Simon works as Managing Director for Digital Visitor and uses his brand experience to help deliver digital projects that drive clear, measurable results for tourism businesses across the whole of the travel industry.  Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I speak with Simon Jones, Managing Director of Digital Visitor, the UK's leading strategic digital marketing agency for travel, tourism and hospitality. In this episode, we discuss experience gifting, focusing on niche products and multiple strategies to secure revenue for Christmas. Just a heads up. We had a few tiny audio issues but none of them take away from the invaluable advice that Simon has shared. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Simon, welcome to the Skip the Queue podcast. It is really lovely to have you on today.Simon Jones: Hi Kelly. Thank you very much for asking me on.Kelly Molson: You are very welcome. And as ever, we start off with our icebreaker questions. What is your karaoke song?Simon Jones: Angel's, Robbie Williams.Kelly Molson: It's a classic.Simon Jones: It is. Not when I sing it, though.Kelly Molson: Okay. And what is your favorite place to visit in the UK?Simon Jones: Cornwall. I absolutely love the sea. I've been growing up going to the beach since I was a youngster, and it's something I've always enjoyed. I'll get in the water at whatever the weather, how cold it is, rain, whatever. It's just brilliant, and I love the waves. I can't surf. My kids surf. But I can lie on a body board and hit some big waves. So from that point of view, I love it.Simon Jones: There's a little place in north Cornwall called Treyarnon Bay, which is just around from a Constantine Bay, which is a big surf beach. And Treyarnon's just kind of become my spiritual home. In fact, I should not tell you because it's not very busy and I don't want it to get really busy. But it's just stunningly beautiful, the most beautiful sunsets that you'll ever see. And we stay like a minutes walk from the beach and I'm in water at 8:30 in the morning and probably at 8:30 at night. And my wife will tell you that I just never get out of the sea. Yeah, I just love it.Kelly Molson: That sounds like an absolutely incredible place. I don't know of it, but now everyone knows of it. They'll all be flooding there. The closest that we've been is Watergate Bay, which is, it's similar. The sunsets in Watergate Bay are just out of this world. I've never braced the sea there though. I've never done, I've never gone in and body boarded there, but I quite fancy that.Simon Jones: Really, honestly, there's nothing more exhilarating and embracing. We were down this summer, and we didn't have fantastic weather, but it doesn't matter. The waves were absolutely out of this world and the beach was actually red flagged a few times because they were so big this year. But yeah, I would, honestly give it a go. You will not regret. It is just that, my kids now are in the water for hours every day when we go down, they've just grown up with it and they just love it. My 10 year old in particular surfs like a little demon and you just look at it and go, how have you done that?Kelly Molson: I love that. Thank you for sharing. And a would you rather question for you, would you rather be a superhero and if so, which? Or the world's best chef?Simon Jones: That's a good one. I think everybody loves a superhero. It would be great to be able to do that. And in terms of which one, it would probably be Superman just because to fly would be brilliant.Kelly Molson: That'd be pretty awesome, wouldn't it? What about the whole pants outside your trousers thing though?Simon Jones: I've done that many times, so it's kind of not new.Kelly Molson: Okay, good. Glad that we've learned that about you today. All right. The last question on this section. Tell me something that's true, that nobody else agrees with you on? What's your unpopular opinion for us?Simon Jones: I've got two, if that's all right?Kelly Molson: It's very all right.Simon Jones: The Alarm, which are my favorite band of all time, are probably the most underrated band of all time. And second one is that I don't think it's essential to do well in education to be successful.Kelly Molson: Okay. Let's talk about this because I kind of agree with you. It depends on the path, right? Not everybody learns the same way at school. And I've often talked about this myself because I didn't go to university, chose to go and get a job back in the day. This was a very long time ago. It was a lot easier to get a junior designer position. And I just wanted to learn. I wanted to be hands-on. I wanted to be learning as I, working as I was learning. And it's never really done me any harm. If I think about my career journey and what I've done and how I've learned and now where I am, I think that was the right decision for me.Simon Jones: Yeah. I'm very similar to you, Kelly. I actually left school at 16. I didn't get on with the school and education environment. Nothing against it, just didn't suit me. And I went out into the working world straight away at 16. I haven't done any professional qualifications, haven't been to university.Simon Jones: It's all about let's say, it's the right path for each individual. I think it's about your attitude. It's about what you want to do. It's about the desire to succeed and how you get on. If I'm looking to recruit, I think it's probably harder these days. In all fairness to youngsters. But from my point of view, education and what people have done is not the first thing I look at. It's you read into a job application, the experience they've got. Or even a covering letter sometimes is more important, have they done that, absolutely to what you're looking for. Is there enough passion and inspiration in what they're looking for?Simon Jones: Yeah, from my point of view, obviously education is important. I'm not saying that. But I just think it is down to each person's path. They need to do what they're comfortable with and what they're good at. And if you look back at some point in the future and go, well, maybe I should have done something different. It's not the end of the world. You can find your right way, you just need to work hard at it.Kelly Molson: I love this. And I think I completely agree with your unpopular opinion, whether it's unpopular or not is to be seen. But I would love to, if you're listening and you're following us on social media, I'd actually really love to know how you feel about that and what your career journeys have been like from education path as well. Pop us a little tweet over, I'd really love to hear about that.Kelly Molson: That leads us really nicely on to the things that I'd like to talk about today, Simon. Simon and I, we met recently because we both spoke at the Visitor Attractions Conference, and we were both in the Your Website is Your Brand segment. And I think one of the joint messages that we both pushed out this year is that "Your website has never been more important as it is right at this moment in time." We're going to talk a little bit about that in a minute, but I'd really like to understand how your career path has developed from school and to where you are now. If you can give us a bit of a potted history, that would be great?Simon Jones: Yeah. Sure. I left, when I left school, based in Bristol and I'm from Bristol. And financial services was huge in Bristol, so I basically ended up working in financial service sector for quite a few years, working for SunLife as it was, and AXA. But nothing against it. It gave me grounding, made some great friendships there. People I'm still in touch with now but it didn't really inspire and wasn't anything that really thrilled me.Simon Jones: I wanted to move into a sales line of work, but the last thing I wanted to do was financial sales, because back in those days, it didn't have a particularly good reputation and it's not that most of interesting. I ended up selling housewares products of all things. I worked for a company called Brabantia, who are known for their pedal bins, bread bins, ironing tables, et cetera.Simon Jones: I worked for them for a couple of years and it was great, absolutely brilliant products, brilliant time, got to learn an awful lot, spent a lot of time on the road. And then I was fortunate enough randomly to end up finding a job for Merlin Entertainments, or Vardon Attractions, as they were back in those days. I went through an interview process with them and was very lucky enough to become working in the trade side. For the first few years of my working world in, or working life in Visitor Attractions, I worked in trade marketing for Merlin Entertainments. Across the Sea Life Dungeons brands, and just fell in love with the sector. Absolutely. Merlin was a brilliant education for me. Hadn't been, really know anything about this attractions or tourism at that stage, other than the fact that I love going on holiday. I just fell in love with the way attractions are, and how they operate and how much you were just dealing with people's fun time, leisure time. It's really about giving people great experiences.Simon Jones: I was with Merlin Entertainments for probably about six, seven years. I think it was. Based down in the head office in Poole. And then I moved into museums, or science centers. I went to work for a science center called At-Bristol in the day, which is now We the Curious. And I went there as, originally from the marketing side and ended up working right across the sort of commercial areas for that. And again, it was just brilliant. Back in Bristol, my hometown. Really, really great products, great team, had fun there and dealt with the, they had three sites. There was a site center side, which getting the hands on experiences and getting kids involved with science was brilliant. We had, at that stage a nature attraction as well. And then an IMAX cinema. And IMAX films are the only way to watch films. Large format film, it's just brilliant. Really immersive.Simon Jones: And then, that moved on from there, always had fancied having a go at something myself. I never quite had the nerve to do it, if you like. And then I met my now business partner, Anthony Rawlins, through mutual contacts. And he had already started a company, it's Digital Properties back in those days, which was all about video marketing. And he was the person that realized that there was a good opportunity for video marketing in tourism, and sort of approached me. We started to work together and I took the opportunity at that stage to go, do you know what? This is the right time for me to break off and try doing my own thing.Simon Jones: We set Digital Visitor up, and we only work in tourism. We have dabbled in a few things across time, as I think you do. But from my point of view, why would you move outside of this sector? I'm passionate about it. I absolutely love tourism, visitor attractions, the whole side of it. Since we've been going, we've worked exclusively within the sector.Kelly Molson: I love that. And now Digital Visitor is the UK's leading strategic digital welcome agency for travel, tourism and hospitality. You've done all right.Simon Jones: Absolutely. Well, thank you. Yeah. I think when you're passionate about something, it becomes a lot easier, doesn't it? And as I say, we're still dealing with people's leisure time. We're able to work with a lot of great partners that deliver fantastic experiences, and it's our job to make sure we get those people to them to have those experiences. Yeah, it still works really well.Kelly Molson: Fabulous. And now, look, it's been a tricky year. It's been, to say the least. But I don't want to look back on this episode because I think we've talked quite a lot about how people have come through the pandemic and how people have been supporting their clients through that. But what I really want to focus on today is what comes next, because we are now starting that run-up to Christmas. And as we said earlier, your website has never been more important as it is now. And that's not just in terms of pre-booking, but that's in terms of retail and in terms of gifting as well.Kelly Molson: What I'd like to share with our listeners today are things that they can take away and implement. Should we start with digital marketing strategies for Christmas, and what does that look like? And what can attractions be focusing on right now that is going to push them through to Christmas and really make the most of what they can achieve?Simon Jones: Yeah, sure. I mean, I think it was interesting over this period is that the shift towards digital has just absolutely built momentum. It was obviously happening over the last few years. And when I started in marketing, obviously digital didn't even exist. To now go to a stage where for me it becomes absolutely the most important thing that you do, is quite bizarre to see the shift that's happened over the last few months. It's probably moved on what would have been five, six years from that point of view.Simon Jones: What digital does is it gives you that complete immediacy to be able to look at things, what's working, what's not working, change your tactic straight away. It's completely agile and it's totally transparent. You can really see what's working for you, what isn't working for you, things that aren't working for you, you turn off. You don't need to wait for three months whilst the poster has to run its course in a place, that you can actually change it straight away and really, really focus on those bits that will drive the revenue for you.Simon Jones: And in terms of, we still don't know what the next few months are going to bring. We don't know if we're going to be open. We absolutely have no idea at the moment what's going to happen. But what we do know is Christmas isn't going away. It may be a different style of Christmas, but people will want to give gifts. They will want to treat people to nice things that they can do. And I think the whole concept of experience gifting is just absolutely an opportunity that visitor attractions should not miss out on. The experience gifting market has grown over the last few years hugely anyway. And I just think this is going to really intensify that. If people can't see you or they're not allowed to travel to have big family all together at Christmas, sending the best possible thing you can do as an experience when people can go back out. And obviously from an attractions point of view, that's brilliant because you get the revenue now.Simon Jones: It is a really difficult time. If you can get your revenue in at this stage and then the actual visit can happen at any point over the next 12 months or whenever it is, but really focusing in on driving that revenue from those ticket experiences is just a huge opportunity that people can't miss out on.Kelly Molson: And that is something that was continuously talked about at the VAC when we both spoke at it, is that drive for memberships and selling the experience of something that you can't go to it now, but you can go to it in the future. And I think it was something like 23 to 25% increase in sales, in memberships, when actually attractions were locked down. There was a huge spike in, there is a huge need for people and a want and a desire for people to come back. It's definitely something to focus on now.Kelly Molson: I mean, what about looking at securing the revenue? We've got reduced capacity at the moment in terms of visitor numbers, how does experience gifting help that?Simon Jones: Yeah. From a point of view, from the experience gifting, I mean, there's, and actually you mentioned one thing there Kelly which is also very important, is memberships. If you're someone who is buying a gift for someone, that whole point of saying here's a bit of clothes or some clothes or something that you don't like, compared with giving a gift that is going down a zip line at a hundred miles an hour, or visiting some of the best experiences or attractions that you can go through. There's just no comparison, in that you're giving people real experiences and potentially memories for life.Simon Jones: From that point of view, that's brilliant. But from the attraction side, I mean, obviously there's going to be a big push in the buildup to Christmas for people looking to buy, looking to secure these presents. And the revenue goes into the attractions at that time. If you're going to be closed for the next few months, there's a great opportunity to drive a load of cash into your business. And some people may not, you may account for that once the visit actually happened, but whatever happens is you're building up a cash reserve there, which can help to some degree. When obviously then people do come and visit at a later point, you'll get secondary spend from them. There'll be other opportunities to get even further revenue from those people. The whole shops, we know people are buying more in visitor attraction shops when they go through. Obviously from a catering point of view as well.Simon Jones: And even better, rather than selling just a one-off ticket if you've sold them a membership as a gift, if someone's giving a membership, you're going to get that visit time and time again. And over the next few months, you're going into probably six months through next year. I think local visits are going to be hugely important. People aren't going to be looking to travel as far. They don't know what the long-term plans, if we're going to go into a lockdown again. Keeping local and experiencing things on their doorstep is going to become an even bigger part of what they want to do.Simon Jones: Finally, just on that, once you've got their details, if someone's bought from you there is always the opportunity to constantly contact them. Go back to those people and potentially upsell. Get more commitment from them. You've got a direct line. And, okay. Even if someone's buying a gift for someone else, you never know, you might encourage them to want to do it as well. Or even just adding value to the package that they've already bought. There's no reason to say a few weeks later, they might want to add something else to that, if you can get them.Simon Jones: It opens up a whole new load and that's just on the ticket side, but it really does open up a whole load of opportunities to drive that revenue.Kelly Molson: It's interesting what you said about, I mean, I've always very much myself being someone that will buy people gifts that have a longevity to them and a membership or something like that, or an experience feels right. It feels more exciting than just, I don't know, something that's going to get used and then you throw it away. I'm thinking about what I'm, my parents don't listen to this podcast but I'm going to get them a National Trust membership this year because they live about 45 minutes away from where we are. They've stayed very, very local to their area. They live in a market town in Essex. They haven't really been outside of that town that much. They've come to visit us a couple of times when they were able to.Kelly Molson: But I think that gift will give them, they will expand their area slightly and they can still go to places that are outside that they feel more comfortable with. Hopefully they'll appreciate that I've thought this through for them this year.Simon Jones: It'll be just your luck that is time will be the one time they do listen to the podcast, [inaudible 00:18:20].Kelly Molson: God, I hope not. But I mean, what you talked about, locality is really interesting as well, isn't it? Is that local audiences are even more important than ever now.Simon Jones: Yeah. I mean, certainly people haven't wanted to travel very far. If they've been going out and doing things, they'd been staying in their local market. And there's a lot of evidence to show that people are going back to sites and places that they know, in terms of they've got the confidence, they know the site, they know how they're going to get there. They know what's going to happen when they're on the site itself.Simon Jones: And it just gives them that confidence to take that step, if it's something they'd been unsure of previously. That's definitely not going to change over the short term. I'd know, from my point of view, I've explored more in the local area in Bristol over the last few months than I just, I've just discovered places I didn't even know existed. And when you're about 500 years old, like I am, you just don't think you're going to come across new things.Simon Jones: The opportunity to get people doing more locally and supporting their local attractions and their local businesses, it's just hugely important. And I think people are willing to spend money locally now, sorry, when previously they would've gone further afield to actually have those experiences. They just wouldn't have thought about coming locally. Whereas now they will. Now it does translate very much into, if you're thinking about Christmas, we talk about experience gifting as being obviously a key opportunity for that giving the experiences there.Simon Jones: But many attractions have got fantastic products and fantastic shops. It's not only that, they very much need to be thinking about themselves as a retail business in the buildup to it. What have they got? What products do they have that will sell? Now, I'm not saying compete against an Amazon or the big boys. You need to think really closely about what branded products there. The added value that you get from your brand. Now, what can people see? What will they value to it? Niche things that they didn't, I said I worked for We the Curious before. You see places like I see in the science museums and stuff. They have amazing science experiments and things that you can buy. How about just focusing in on those really niche areas that you can then give people great fun to have at home? Which is easily extending your brand and obviously securing the sell from your point of view as well.Simon Jones: And from that side, just as an example, what about if it was almost an annual membership where you could say, right, well, you get a different experiment a month? Or something along those lines. Just very much thinking about, all right, we've got great products. How do you sell them? And it's about competing in that marketplace as well, but with the right things. Not trying to compete where you're going to be massively under cut, or you're not going to be able to compete with the marketing spent.Kelly Molson: I love that. And it makes it really personalized to that attraction as well, doesn't it? We had a really good chat with Paul Griffiths a couple of weeks ago from Painshill Park. And he talked about how when during lockdown, they actually went out and they sold the wine and the gin that is produced from the vineyards that are at the park. And I was like, that's fantastic. That really makes, it makes that gift very personal to that venue. And it's something that nobody else can sell as well.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I think that's so important to concentrate on. What about, how do we get people to the attractions? If attractions need to focus on not just ticket sales from a digital perspective, but also retail and gifting, how to get them there? What channels do you use?Simon Jones: Well, I mean, from the point of view of conversion, obviously this goes back to the session Kelly, that the website's the most important thing in terms of driving that conversion there. Making sure you've got really simple, easy conversion process going through to once you get people to the site, is absolutely imperative from there.Simon Jones: But in terms of driving people in, we almost look at it into three separate areas. There's what we call converting intent. Converting intent is really encouraging those people who are already looking for something. They might be looking for you from a brand name, or they might be looking for something to do around what you do, or they might be looking for something to do in a location, but they are actively searching for something to do.Simon Jones: And there's two ways to get reaching those people. One is obviously from an SEO point of view, making sure that you're doing really well from that organic searching, the right phrases, the right areas, making sure you're ranking really well for those. And then there's the paid search. Really focusing on driving through those conversions. And it is definitely worth paid search going through to the site and making sure that you are putting money into those areas because it definitely does show a return. From that point of view, there's converting that. And also, for those attractions that are charitable attractions, so like many of the people that we deal with, I'm sure most people are looking at this. But there's the Google Ads Grant. And Google Ads Grant gives you a good amount, $10,000 a month in terms of supporting your marketing activity online. And it gives you a really good opportunity to use that spend that Google has provided to drive that traffic through to your website. It gives you another great opportunity from there.Simon Jones: In terms of inspiration, digital is great. To be able to use great content, great video, great visuals. Social media obviously provides a huge amount of opportunity in terms of putting the right message in front of the right audience. We can target by so many different things these days that you can really, really show that you're getting the right people to see the content and then to click through and get back to your site. The cost per clicks from social is a lot lower. We find some really good value from driving people through, but it's not always been.Simon Jones: Previously, I would say not always been the best of converting channels. That's changed. People are very used to clicking through and buying from those social routes now. And all of that feeds into then the re-targeting, and obviously Kelly, you guys do great websites. It's about making sure that you've got, when you've got them to the site, you've got the right tracking in place then so that if they don't buy that time, you can continue that message to them. You know they're interested, they've been through to the site. Get your retargeting correct and then you can drive them back in, in terms of driving those sales.Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the plug on the websites as well. I think what I really like about when you and Anthony speak, and I've seen both of you speak now a number of times, is that you look at things from a very holistic approach. It's actually, it's not always just one channel that you're talking about or digital actually. What about other channels that we can consider? What about things like audio and TV, for example? Is that a bit of a far cry for attractions right now? Or is that something they should be, or could be focusing on?Simon Jones: I think it's a really important part of it. You think back to traditional TV advertising, I would have said it probably was way outside of most people's capabilities, or budgets. Sorry, not capabilities. But when you had just a few channels to choose from the amount of money that you needed to invest in it from a point of view of a return. But again, digital in these areas really does help. If you look at something like a Sky [inaudible 00:25:34], for example, basically it gives you the option of the TV advertising, but overlay that with the absolute brilliant targeting you get through social. And it really does give the opportunity to hit the right people. Eight houses watching the same program in a street can all be delivered a different ad based on their traits, their what they watch, what their habits are. You can really make sure again, that you're getting the right message in front of the right people.Simon Jones: Audio. I mean, I spend all my life on, listening to podcasts now. I walk in and out of work every day, it's a great way to relax after a day's work. And you can put specific adverts, or you can put specific content on front of the, obviously the right podcast. You know, again, if somebody is listening to a podcast about football or about wartime history or whatever, if you then get a message to them that you're getting a really niche audience, sorry, who you can pretty much guarantee are going to be interested in what you have to offer.Simon Jones: I think it's going to be really hard for a lot of out of home over the coming few months. I mean, you're seeing the pictures of what's going on in London. There's not a lot of people in Central London at the moment. Yet that, from cheap advertising, TFL, that used to be a really, really important part of the way attractions would think of communicating with audiences that were in those area. But it does now need to be shifted and go, the audience isn't there so you need to go where the audience is. Outside of just that, you've got things like influencers, the whole idea of bloggers and influencers and people these days that can have a big say on what people do. That's massive. And make sure that people, you're embracing that. Look at who are your local influences are? What are the influencers in the space that you're looking at? Engage with them.Simon Jones: Yeah. Okay. Some of them might need to be paid to do it, but if they have the right audience, they have an engaged audience, it's actually in terms of engagement side, where they call the sort of the smaller influencers who have much better audience in terms of getting reactions and engagement from. It really does work well, from that point of view.Simon Jones: And another one I'm always keen on is partnerships. I've spent a big part of my career talking to people that partnerships are a great way to work. And it doesn't have to in your sector. For example, you mentioned National Trust, there. You might go for someone like a bird hack or something like that, where they've got very, very similar audience demographics and their interests are the same opportunity. If you can forge a partnership and you can work together to benefit both audiences, then that's great because it's just extending up a whole new set of people you can talk to.Kelly Molson: On the topic of partnerships, actually, I was thinking about this in terms of Christmas. A lot of the attractions that we're speaking to are doing different Christmas events than would usually have been planned. Just because of social distancing, logistics, demand, capacity, et cetera. How about, would you ever recommend attractions partnering up with another local attraction to do, you buy a ticket for this one and you get ticket for this one as well? Or doing a joint package? Something like that?Simon Jones: Yeah. I mean, it's something, again, I've actually always thought it's a really good idea. And when I was based in Bristol working at [inaudible 00:28:51] into there, we were partner with all the other attractions there and did joint ticketing and joint sales where you could. Or sometimes joint ticketing can be difficult depending on the ticketing systems and what's allowed, but certainly cross promotion. You're not, for something like that you're not really competing for, people are going to do many things over the course of the year. Particularly if they're concentrating on staying local.Simon Jones: The more that you can look to work together and the more that you can benefit each other, particularly in these difficult times is absolutely something I would work towards. And the other thing from a partnerships point of view, maybe not so much with the attractions, but if you can, we've done some great data capture campaigns with when we've been using say a major retail brand that has a huge audience. And if we can engage with that audience, get them back in to run a competition with a visitor attraction, then you can capture that data. Obviously, as long as it's GDPR compliant, you can then have an ongoing communication with those people for however you want to then. And that can be a really, really effective way of building that proper communication channel with people.Kelly Molson: Awesome. Yeah, that's a really great idea, especially in the run up now to Christmas. What, we're coming towards the end of the podcast. I've got a couple more questions for you. But what would you, if you could sum up the top three things that attractions should be focusing on right now while we're in that run up to Christmas, what are those top three things, Simon?Simon Jones: Definitely from a point of view of, I'd get the basics right. What things can you sell? Have you got a voucher to start with? Make sure you've got that and then do the simple steps to get people in to buying that voucher. Make sure you've got your paid search and your organic search strong. Get people into the site, use social media to inspire people to get to the site, and then get your retargeting right so that you can convert that audience. That's probably four actually.Simon Jones: But there are many others that we could go through, but I think, look, start with them. If attractions are further down the line, then there's a lot more, they can think about digital, the audio, TV, what other products that they can sell. I think it's very much thinking about their own situation. How far down the road are they? I mean, and even what events have they got coming up? Sorry, I'm just going off on a bit of a tangent here. But now I remember there was, again it was back, I think it was, I think Sue Briggs from RHS was talking about the shows that they'd run through the summer that obviously are normally incredibly important for them.Simon Jones: And they were doing the online versions of those and people were paying to see, enter the shows from that point of view. There are so many attractions that do fantastic events over this time. Light shows, Longleat down by us do great ones. I know Edinburgh Zoo do fantastic. There's so many there. It's a case of, all right, if we're not going to be able to get the volume through, how else can I monetize this? What else can I do to give people that little bit of value that's in, kind of and encourage them to come along and actually? Or it's not to come along, but to participate in this online.Simon Jones: You're not going to stop the audience that wants to come locally because we can reduce capacity. We're still going to be able to get those people through. But actually, how can you just get the little bits of revenue from other people to help the pot of money build up over this difficult time?Kelly Molson: Brilliant. Thank you. Super advice, as always Simon. We're going to put all of Simon's details in the show notes, but where's the best place that our listeners can find you, Simon? If they want to book a call with you to discuss any of these things?Simon Jones: Okay. Well, I think probably the best thing would be to go to our website, which is www.digitalvisitor.com. And my details are on there, and they can come through to, from that point of view. But, thank you.Kelly Molson: Fab. We will put all of that in the show notes. We always like to end the podcast by asking our guests about a book. We'd like to know what book that you'd recommend, that's maybe helped shape your career? Or just a book that you really love, that you'd recommend that our listeners could pick up and read?Simon Jones: Kelly, sorry, I'm going to have to two, because I know, I'm sorry.Kelly Molson: Budget out the window, again. Simon Jones: Okay. From a personal point of view, I love John Steinbeck. I love the books that, things like, I'll give one just so you don't have to do too many, but I think Cannery Row is absolute brilliant. I love the area that's, the whole area around California. And I've been traveling around there and it's so atmospheric, they give a really good insight to what the area was like in the times.Simon Jones: And obviously Of Mice and Men as well, which I will go with Cannery Row [inaudible 00:33:31]. Steinbeck's great, and I think any of the books by John Steinbeck are really engaging. From a business point of view, it's interesting. Over the last few years, I've got more into reading business books, particularly using Audible walking in and out of work. And I think one of the hardest things I've always had in business is dealing with difficult problems. If you've got, particularly from a staff point of view, if you've got a difficult situation, it's very hard to deal with that. It can be very easy to bury your head in the sand and just let things go. But it always, majority of the time that always gets worse.Simon Jones: A little while back there was a book by Kim Scott called Radical Candor. And I found that really helpful in terms of how to approach that and actually what the benefits of it were and just the structures and the ways that you can do proper constructive conversations and feedback with people to actually help everybody in that. Yeah, Radical Candor was something that opened my eyes into a slightly different way of doing things. I think that's what I'd recommend.Kelly Molson: That is a great book choice. I have read that book, it's sitting on my bookshelf upstairs, and it is, yeah, it is really great actually. She's so, yeah. Yeah.Kelly Molson: As ever, if you would like to win a copy of this book, then head over to our Twitter account which is skip_the_queue. And if you retweet this episode announcement with the comment, "I want Simon's book." Then you could be in with a chance of winning it.Kelly Molson: Well, it's been an absolute delight to have you on the podcast today, Simon. Thank you for coming on and sharing all of your insight. As we said, all of Simon's details are going to be in the show notes. I would highly recommend if you are not fixed for Christmas already book a call, and I'm sure that Digital Visitor can help you out. Thank you.Simon Jones: Brilliant. Thanks very much, Kelly.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

Hello babies! It's still MaxFunDrive 2020! Go become a member and support your favorite podcasts! If you have the extra dough, consider gifting a membership to someone who has lost income due to the pandemic. On today's episode, we read the Wikipedia page for Nils Olav, a king penguin who resides in Edinburgh Zoo, Scotland. Please go to this page and observe his great posture.

The lockdown is easing and we got the news about reopening plans directly from people we recently interviewed.  Max Coleman of the Botanics, Jess Wise of Edinburgh Zoo, Susan of the Scottish Seabird Centre and Alison of the Red Bus Bistro sent through wee messages explaining how they were opening up to the public again. You will agree they all sound very excited and very prepared to welcome us all. Now it's over to us. For more details – check out their websites. Edinburgh Zoo Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh Scottish Seabird Centre The Red Bus Bistro

This week, we learn all about one of the celebrated heroes of the Polish Army during WWII [who just so happened to be a nearly 500-lb bear…]. Lauren tells us the fascinating story of one of history’s greatest mascots, and later gives us a quiz about the wonderful weirdness of MLB mascots! . . . [Music: 1) Igor Stravinsky, “Peasant With Bear,” from Petrushka, 2008; 2) Frau Holle, “Ascending Souls,” 2017. Courtesy of Frau Holle, CC BY-NC 3.0 license.]

Which animals are missing us visiting them at the zoo? Which endangered species is being bred in captivity in Scotland? Which mammal has been released back into the wild by Edinburgh Zoo? Dr Helen Taylor answers these questions and more in this week's podcast.  If you want see the animals, there are webcams and lots of resources.  And if you want to know more about conservation, there is loads of information here.

I speak with Morag MacIntosh about the reality of teaching online during the Covid-19 lockdown.Ross Thorburn: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to "TEFL Training Institute Podcast." I'm Ross Thorburn, and before we get into this week, I wanted to play you a quote from Yuval Noah Harari, author of "Sapiens." This is him on Sam Harris' "Making Sense" podcast talking about all things online teaching.Yuval Noah Harari: This shift to online teaching. This can lead to all kinds of dangerous directions. A lot of the experience of going to college doesn't happen in class, it happens during the break time. With teaching classes online on Zoom, of course there are break times, but you're alone in your home. You don't meet the other students, for a chance in the cafeteria.I think that whatever happens to education, we should always remember the very central rule of the community and of social interaction...Ross: I wanted to play you this for two reasons. First, to me, it's amazing that people like Yuval Noah Harari and Sam Harris are now talking about online teaching. Second, that what you just heard him say about the importance of what happens outside of the classroom.I think it's so easy to forget with online teaching, and I think this is true of the podcast that we've done recently here on this topic, that we tend to focus on the changes that have happened inside the classroom.For so many of our students and obviously for so many of you that are listening, the coronavirus has really changed for millions and millions of people what's going on for them outside of the classroom. Obviously in language teaching, so much of what we do inside the classroom is based on what's going on in our students' lives.We always try to personalize lessons based on students interests, jobs, hobbies, vacations, whatever. If you're part of the world where students are also in self‑isolation, that's going to have a huge impact on what you can get students to talk about inside the classroom.I want to bring this up at the beginning because that's one of the themes I think that came up in this week's interview with Morag MacIntosh. Morag works for Live Language in Glasgow, mainly teaching Academic English and helping students there prepare for IELTS, and Morag's also currently studying for her diploma in TESOL.For the last few weeks, Morag's been teaching online, and really is an inspiration in this area in finding resources that I would have never thought to use in a classroom but using them to great effect. In this interview, Morag and I talk about the reality of teaching online, not just teaching online but teaching online during this period of self‑isolation due to the coronavirus. Enjoy the interview.Ross: Morag, thanks so much for coming on. I really wanted to talk to you about this, because to be honest, a lot of what I read on online in terms of teaching tips at the moment seems to come from people who have never actually taught online and they certainly aren't doing it now.Morag MacIntosh: No, and there's things like say to your students, "What was the best thing you did yesterday? What was the most exciting thing?" Right now, that is being published to say to your students. They haven't been out of their house, you're not allowed to go out. You can't say what's the best thing. There's no good thing about it at all. A lot of the stuff you read is not suitable.Ross: [laughs] I think that just shows how out of touch some people really are at the moment with the reality of what's going on. This is the other thing with online teaching. Simply taking what happens offline and trying to put it in an online classroom, it just doesn't work.Morag: I think it's just so intensive when you're online. Students get very tired. It's very concentrated. You can't just replicate the classroom in any way at all, that just wouldn't work out. There definitely needs to be a different approach.Why would you use pictures in a course book when you can have your own pictures that you've taken? You can share a screen of something from your country, you can show the real thing in your house.Ross: Absolutely. Let's talk, then, about some of the activities that maybe are more suitable for online teaching, especially at the moment. I presume a lot of the activities that you're doing in class now, you've just discovered through trial and error. Is that right?Morag: Yeah, I think that because we didn't have any training, we had to rely on our own resources more. We didn't have a lot of course books. We've got a lot now, because they've been produced for us, and we've been given access to them, but at first we just had to think outside the box. Use the resources that we had to. Use the environment. Just work with what we had on the spot.Ross: That environment, that you've mentioned there, Morag, is that just the students and the apartments that they're in? Where they literally physically are right now?Morag: Yes. I'm talking about their physical environment because you're in their living room or some other room, and it's their personal space. It's ready‑made, authentic materials, isn't it? You don't have to think, "Is this authentic?" or "How can I make it communicative?" or "How can I make this realistic?" It's realistic already, we don't need to have that problem.We use things, they bring things to show us. We'll go around and look at their rooms, we'll look at their furniture, ask questions about that. One day, we had somebody who had a flat type TV delivered, and we helped him. The instructions were in every language but of course, the one that we couldn't understand any of them.We needed some help with that and what tools to use. We had a lesson in that kind of vocabulary about tools like spanner, hammer. All of these things that people wouldn't normally... [laughs] Then we could see the physical things as well.Ross: I love that example. That's brilliant. I can remember teaching a unit on household tools before. It certainly wasn't very contextualized like that. Again, a great example on how actually teaching the students from home can be better for some topics. Is that something that you planned there? Or was that something that was just improvised?Morag: It sort of evolved. He was saying that he kept getting deliveries every few minutes. There would be his bell ringing in the background. Eventually I said, "What is that noise? What is happening?" and he said, "Oh, it's another delivery."I said, "What are you getting delivered?" That's what led to that. The next day, it was still lying there. We just looked at what he was doing with his package there and then there was the instructions. He was trying to read it out, and we would instruct him. It was like asking questions and directing him. What would you use?We didn't do the whole thing. Obviously he made it up after the class, most of it, but it was preparation. It was like describing a process as well, so it was helpful for their IELTS and writing. That's one of the tasks ‑‑ describing a process. I'm always thinking, how can this tie into their four skills.All the times so we had all the four skills were definitely covered. The next day, he actually took us to see the finished item. [laughs] That kind of rounded it up and it was quite good.Ross: Such a good point. It's so important in this situation that you link whatever is happening in class back either to the course book or the test that the students are studying for so that students can see the point of what they're doing in class.Obviously in the situation where course books haven't been designed for the current situation, I think it's very easy to deviate from that, and for students to feel that whatever they're learning really isn't going anywhere.Morag: Definitely. You've got to make sure that everything you do is going to be tied into that. You can just have a good time looking around peoples' houses, and it's not so productive. You need to remember that they're actually paying for a service.Ross: Do you want to tell us about how you do that in class? How do you relate the class content back to the learning goals?Morag: A lot of it's in the structure. They know the structure that my lesson's going to be. First, I would have them doing something in the chat box when they're all waiting because people arrive just at random times. It's very difficult to motivate yourself to get out of bed when you don't actually have to go out physically.I have that problem, so, when they arrive, they can do something like an activity in the chat box. Like write a sentence about something or post a comment for somebody else. Or a letter, and find an animal or a vegetable. All these kinds of things. Then after that, we usually use the flipped lesson approach.I think that's the best. They've done a lot of the work at home, maybe the fun stuff. They've looked at the video, they've run a podcast, something like that or a blog. They've sent a file and they're speaking, Vocaroo. They'll go into the chat room, and then they'll do a task connected to that. Once we come back, we'll do a fun thing.We'll maybe look out the window and see what we can see. Describe that. Or we'll show videos of what we've been doing on our walks outside. From there, I kind of evolve it from what happens, but I've got a structure in my head. I really take what they produce, and we work with that.Ross: You mentioned videos there, from students' walks outside.Morag: Yeah.Ross: Do you want to tell us a little more about those? What are they, and how do you use them?Morag: What I've done before is, because we're only allowed to go out here for an hour on our isolation walks. When they're outside, I've asked them if they could maybe take a video of where they go. That kind of motivates other people. It's quite boring to be in your house for 23 hours a day.Somebody showed the cherry blossom, and he was holding it in his hand, describing that. When we came back and we're listening to that, we're looking at what he did, then making up questions and things from that as well. Then they can follow that through with writing summaries to practice their vocabulary, and obviously focus on a grammatical point as well that's come up.Ross: Again, that's really great. Really making lessons highly personalized. With sharing those videos, again, you're doing something online that I think would be more challenging to do offline. Another thing I know that you've done before that I thought sounded fantastic was taking students on virtual tours of tourist attractions.Morag: Yes, we either do these at home, or I quite like to do them in the class so that the students are interacting with each other as well. We'll maybe share the videos as well, because they can get a lot more communication out of that.Some of the things that I've done are...When I was looking on the Internet, because we're on lockdown and it's a bit boring, a lot of things have been put online free for people to use just now. For example, Google Arts & Culture, they've made over 2,000 things free like cultural attractions and people can go and they can take a virtual tour.I thought, "I wonder if I could use this," adapt these into the lessons in any way. We can do things with going into museums. There's the British Museum. All the famous museums, [inaudible 10:57] the Louvre. For all these and you can take a virtual tour and walk around it. You can click on different artifacts and find out information about these.I can write a quiz for the students, as if they were actually going around the museum physically. Practices writing, practices speaking, and listening as well. Everything. We also had Edinburgh Zoo as well. You can look at live webcams of different animals there. They were able to choose one animal, for example, the panda.They could look and see what they were doing, and then you can go to the page on the website all about the giant panda and all the information about that as well. They were finding out information about different animals, the habitats, and the history of the animals. All that kind of vocabulary as well.Another good one that I've just done, I was doing it yesterday and today, we took a virtual tour of Buckingham Palace. I shared the screen with them, so we took the virtual tour together.We could speak about it like we were going around there in a group, rather than just looking at it. I wanted them to be interacting with each other and describing what we saw, like the materials. There was gold and plaster and all the different fabrics and the colors and all the objects.We could look in the throne room, and we could hear the queen speaking, so we can listen and making up a WebQuest for them to go around and find out different things. After that, going into the breakout rooms. They chose artifacts or a painting or the throne, something like that, and they could click on it, find out the information and they were going to write a summary. So, paired writing.Ross: Again, I think that's something that's useful on two levels, isn't it? It's great language practice, but it's also plugging a gap that students can't do these things outside a classroom.Morag: Yes, because we're missing out on all of that. They signed up to come for a cultural experience here, and they're not getting it. I'm trying to give them some of that as well that they're missing out on.Ross: Now, those breakout rooms that you mentioned there, they must be a huge help in keeping students engaged and involved.Morag: Especially if you have a large class, and especially if they're sitting with their videos turned off. People can get lost in the class. Sometimes, you don't know if they've fallen asleep, or if you've forgotten about them if you're going around asking people and someone's quiet, and you just see a blank screen, it's very easy to forget about somebody like that.Breakout rooms, they can work in twos or threes. Small groups, and you can choose the rooms. You can do it randomly, or you can manipulate it to have stronger and weaker students together. Just like in a classroom.It's good because then they have a chance to interact just with one or two other people. It really replicates the classroom situation, and the teacher can just pop out and in of each room. The only thing is you really need to set it up very, very carefully beforehand, because you can't be in two places at one time.If somebody's gone off on the wrong track, they might be the last room that you arrive at, and they're sitting there and they haven't done a thing.Ross: Yeah, I think some of those aspects of classroom management like group work are obviously so different to teaching offline. Especially when students turn off their webcams, that's the equivalent of students coming to class with a paper bag over their head.Morag: We can't enforce it, though I say to them, "It's your choice." I understand, if they've maybe just got up or something. Really, you've just got to work with that because you're going into their home. They might not want you to see their personal possessions. There's lots of reasons why they wouldn't have that video on.I feel like I understand that, but it does make it pretty difficult to gauge how they're working, if they're working quietly. That's why I don't have a lot of individual work. Ross: That was Morag MacIntosh, everyone. Thanks, Morag, for joining us. Thanks everyone for listening, and we'll see you again next time. Goodbye.

Quizmaster Dan (from E06) challenged Owen (From E13+E32) in a battle of wits and film knowledge. Loser does their best celebrity impersonation. They join Mark and Scott in a film round since they both do filmy-type stuff. Listen to them discuss (argue) Prometheus, Zooey Deschanel, Jeff Bridges, what it takes to scare a lion and why Owen and Dan think the Edinburgh Zoo is the best place in the world! (The last two points aren't related). Follow the team on Instagram and do the social media thing. Owens music video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH3LD_8liNs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR24DOnjSXoqlUcmA54QMpp9zV0p8y5zcMw5PI0VV3Z-WqnAXcm0rXn3mss You too can find out more about the Edinburgh Zoo here: https://www.edinburghzoo.org.uk/ For any podqast related bits and pieces get in touch at info@goosesquizzes.com. Have a nice day and don't try and sit on peoples legs while they sleep xx

It's tempting to draw lots of parallels between us and our closest relatives in the primate world but the bottom line is that whilst we humans have evolved over the centuries, monkeys and chimpanzees haven't. In Brainwaves, Pennie Latin visits The Living Links Centre for the study of primates at Edinburgh Zoo to find out why our cultures and traditions are just so different. Professor Andy Whiten, Lewis Dean and Lara Wood of St Andrews university demonstrate to Pennie what the capuchin and squirrel monkeys at the Living Links field station are capable of.

Yet ANOTHER World EXCLUSIVE for Christian O'Connell, as he was joined Yuang Guang, live from Edinburgh Zoo - as the pandas prepare to mate this week.

In episode 74 of Janey Godley’s Podcast, the mother and daughter comedy duo bring you a pre-recorded episode as Janey is in London this week. Janey rants uncontrollably about the pandas in Edinburgh Zoo; she has some money saving tips for Edinburgh City council. Ashley has some handy information Panda’s, and regale’s us with some interesting facts and figures from around the world. They discuss the sudden passing of Socrates the world’s greatest mid fielder, whether or not there’s a point to feminism and they discuss in-depth the internet bullying Janey faced from two charity groups. Ashley tells you all about her best friend Vickie’s two dogs and their odd behaviour and Janey lets the bold Alec loose on Christmas carols. You can check out all our videos on YouTube. Order “Handstands in the Dark” Paper Back or in EBook Please rate us or leave a comment on PodOmatic, ITunes or Facebook You can find all the info regarding Janey’s live shows by just clicking Gigs! If you would like to support our podcast then please do so by clicking onto Our Donate Page and donate via PayPal.

The Christian O'Connell Breakfast Show brings you an EXCLUSIVE interview with Edinburgh Zoo's newest inhabitants: Tian Tian and Yang Guang... It's got to be heard to be believed!

Jonathan Meiburg of Shearwater gives a tour of the Falkland Islands. As part of a survey team from Falklands Conservation and the Edinburgh Zoo, he searches for Striated Caracaras or, "Johnny Rook". Video by Gavin Harrison, Edited by Michael Torres Shearwater's new album, "Rook", is now available via iTunes.

Jonathan Meiburg of Shearwater gives a tour of the Falkland Islands. As part of a survey team from Falklands Conservation and the Edinburgh Zoo, he searches for Striated Caracaras or, "Johnny Rook". Video by Gavin Harrison, Edited by Michael Torres Shearwater's new album, "Rook", is now available via iTunes.

Jonathan Meiburg of Shearwater gives a tour of the Falkland Islands. As part of a survey team from Falklands Conservation and the Edinburgh Zoo, he searches for Striated Caracaras or, "Johnny Rook". Video by Gavin Harrison, Edited by Michael Torres Shearwater's new album, "Rook", is now available via iTunes.

Jonathan Meiburg of Shearwater gives a tour of the Falkland Islands. As part of a survey team from Falklands Conservation and the Edinburgh Zoo, he searches for Striated Caracaras or, "Johnny Rook". Video by Gavin Harrison, Edited by Michael Torres Shearwater's new album, "Rook", is now available via iTunes.

Jonathan Meiburg of Shearwater gives a tour of the Falkland Islands. As part of a survey team from Falklands Conservation and the Edinburgh Zoo, he searches for Striated Caracaras or, "Johnny Rook". Video by Gavin Harrison, Edited by Michael Torres Shearwater's new album, "Rook", is now available via iTunes.