Podcasts about metaview

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Coinbase Chief People Officer LJ Brock reveals how the company's mission-first philosophy, refusal to negotiate salaries, and rigorous talent density standards challenge conventional HR orthodoxy.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:46) Banning Politics at Work(02:29) Backlash and Reality: “You'll Never Work Again”(04:32) The Near-Death Moment(05:22) How Coinbase Creates Radical Ideas(06:34) Talent Density: The Future of Hiring Standards(09:04) CEO Approval for Every Hire(09:14) Real-Time Feedback: Eliminating Manager Bias(11:33) Performance Systems That Don't Suck(13:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(16:43) Work Trials(15:37) Sponsor: Metaview(16:43) Work Trials: The 12-Week Internship Strategy(19:49) Single Pay Target(21:00)Executive Alignment on No Negotiation(22:03) Stock Grants: From Four Years to One Year(23:17) Building the Next Generation of CHROs(26:40) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today's HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid analysis of H1B visa policy disruptions impacting tech hiring, then recap their Confluent People Team offsite with Colleen McCreary, featuring contrarian HR perspectives on compensation equity, organizational beliefs, and fostering intellectual disagreement.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:40) H1B Visa Impact on Tech(11:48) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(15:25) Confluent People Team Offsite Recap(20:37) Sponsor: Metaview(22:27) Contrarian HR Beliefs & Organizational Leadership(27:34) Fashion Roast: Is Silicon Valley Dressing Up?(29:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today's Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid, practical advice for Chief People Officers navigating their critical first 90 days, featuring real-world insights on building stakeholder trust, executing quick wins, and establishing strategic organizational influence.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:13) Three Core Goals for New CPOs(01:41) Common Fail States to Avoid(02:03) Over-Communicating with Your CEO(02:23) Building Executive Relationships Beyond One-on-Ones(02:58) Getting to the Ground Floor: The Modern Executive Approach(03:19) The Colleen McCreary Method: 100 One-on-Ones in 90 Days(04:26) Quick Wins and Board Relationship Strategy(04:44) Four-Pillar Framework in Action(05:34) Pre-Start Transparency: Setting Expectations Early(06:40) The Four Pillars: Listen, Execute, Strategize, Build(08:18) The Brutal Reality: 3X Speed for Three Months(09:15) Sprint vs Marathon: Managing Energy and Family Expectations(09:58) Reframing “S**t Shows” as Solvable Problems(11:22) The Critical Importance of In-Person Time(12:13) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(15:22) Building on Company Strengths vs Starting from Scratch(16:31) Team Building Strategy: Know Before You Walk In(17:47) Making “Unnatural” Efforts for Face-Time(18:33) Build Your Scaffolding or Die: The Team Priority(20:14) Ditch HR Speak: Talking Business, Not Corporate Vernacular(21:47) CEO Shadowing: What It Really Means(23:00) Real Partnership: Daily Communication and Quick Feedback Loops(23:59) Sponsor: Metaview(25:18) The Bait-and-Switch Problem in Executive Hiring(27:10) Market Reality: Nine-Month Average Tenure Crisis(29:21) Board Relationships and Air Cover Strategy(30:10) Building Your Narrative: Board Meeting Preparation(31:41) Documentation Strategy: Journaling and Whiteboarding(32:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan talks to Immigration attorney Nicole Gunara (Manifest Law) who analyzes the new $100,000 H-1B policy that sparked rapid industry adaptation across Silicon Valley, breaking down how this strategic shift creates different advantages for big tech versus startups while driving companies to explore innovative alternative visa pathways.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NICOLE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNicole: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ngunara10/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Manifest Law: https://manifestlaw.com/Gary Tan's LinkedIn post: A $100K H1B fee won't bother big tech…For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:51) What Happened Friday Night: The $100K H-1B Bombshell(02:53) Monday Reality Check: What We Actually Know(04:16) Clear vs. Unclear: Exemptions and Renewal Definitions(07:49) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(10:58) Crisis Response Strategy: Audit, Pause, and Pivot(15:56) The Alphabet Soup: Alternative Visa Pathways(21:19) Sponsor: Metaview(23:08) The O-1 Opportunity: 94.5% Approval Rates Explained(24:43) The Startup Dilemma: Gary Tan vs. Big Tech Advantage(28:57) Strategic or Chaotic? The Department of Labor Clue(30:13) America's STEM Pipeline Problem: The Real Policy Driver(32:21) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Returning guest Bryan Power (Head of People, Nextdoor) talk about AI workplace adoption, contrasting executives who avoid AI as time-consuming with his dedicated approach of treating AI as teammates, scheduling one-on-ones with custom GPTs, and transforming workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Nextdoor: https://nextdoor.com—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:00) The Tinkerer vs. The Resisters(03:00) The AI Bubble and Workplace Resistance(05:00) Project Neighbor: Nextdoor's AI Initiative(07:00) Case Study: Building AI Training with ChatGPT(09:00) Mental Model Shift: AI as Teammate, Not Tool(10:00) Scheduling One-on-Ones with Custom GPTs(10:51) Ad Break - Athena & Planful Sponsors(14:01) Executive Offsite Planning: AI in Action(16:00) The Onboarding Problem: Context and Custom GPTs(18:00) Compensation GPT: Domain-Specific AI Applications(21:00) Output and Velocity: Gamma and Slide Creation(22:43) Ad Break - Metaview Sponsor(24:37) Optional or Essential: The Future of AI Adoption(26:00) The Mass Extinction Event for Knowledge Workers(30:00) Creating Permission to Tinker(32:00) Restructuring Executive Time for AI(34:00) Corporate Lingo Roast(44:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Katelin Holloway, Founding Partner of Seven Seven Six. Katelin argues HR professionals possess essential early-stage investing skills, and advocates their transition from support roles to decision-making positions through founder relationship-building strategies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH KATELIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINKatelin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelinholloway/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS: Seven Seven Six: http://sevensevensix.com—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:27) How HR "Found" Katelin: The Accidental Career Path(02:02) Pixar University: Learning from World-Class People Operations(03:16) Meeting Alexis Ohanian: The Reddit Turnaround Story(04:12) When Employees Refused to Wear Company Swag(04:43) Why Hard Challenges Build Deeper Professional Bonds(05:42) From Boardroom to Back Room: The VC Industry Problem(07:24) Why Early-Stage Investing IS People Work(08:52) The "Talent Partner" Problem: Wasted Potential in VC(09:40) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(12:03) The Marc Andreessen Challenge: Selection vs. Support(13:23) Platform Shifts Are Disrupting Venture Capital(14:07) Product and People First: 776's Different Approach(15:30) The Tactical Playbook: How to Break Into Venture(15:49) Build Founder Relationships, Not VC Relationships(16:22) The "How Can I Help?" Problem: Why Most VCs Fail Founders(17:39) From Advisor to Angel: Getting Equity Without Cash(18:28) The Golden Rule: Genuine Help Must Come First(20:06) Ed Catmull's 5-Year Rule: Knowing When to Leap(21:57) Why the Smartest People Never "Figure It Out"(22:26) Closing: Building the Future of Venture Capital This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Iain Roberts, Airbnb's Global Head of Employee Experience and discuss his transition from IDEO designer to Airbnb's CHRO, exploring how design thinking principles reshape organizational structure, collaborative leadership, and workplace policies in opposition to traditional HR practices.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH IAIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINIain: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsiainNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Airbnb: http://airbnb.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:08) "Everything Needs to be Designed" Philosophy(02:48) Founder Mode: Leadership Through Collaboration(05:50) The One Roadmap Strategy(08:04) Prototyping Human Experiences(12:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(14:42) Live and Work Anywhere: The Contrarian Bet(18:12) Talent Strategy & Future of Work(20:19) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this latest installment of AI Corner, Kelli, Nolan and CEO Metaview Siadhal Magos discuss the "Trough of Disillusionment" in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview 10x Recruiting Podcast - instead of recycled LinkedIn takes, you get contrarian insights from operators who've actually built elite talent machines. Instead of theory, you get real tactics and metrics from leaders at Vercel, Coinbase, and Uber.Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast for more interviews like this one: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruitingKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/siadhalNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Trough of Disillusionment(01:41) The Dinner Revelation: "We Don't Do S**t"(03:31) MIT Study: 95% of AI Pilots Are Failing(04:19) "They're Doing It Wrong"(07:02) The Human Curse of Instant Gratification(08:51) Early Adopters vs. The Wait-and-See Crowd(10:46) The Expectations Correction(12:33) Sponsors: Metaview 10x Podcast | Planful(14:25) The 30-Minute Rule: Small Wins Add Up(15:23) Stop Scaring People(16:59) Enterprise Reality Check(19:11) The Four Buckets of AI Value(21:16) Compensation Revolution(24:06) The Future of Compensation Strategy(28:46) The Great Adoption Debate(32:29) Forward Deployed Engineers: The New Reality(33:29) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with LinkedIn's VP of Talent Solutions Mark Lobosco to discuss their new "Hiring Assistant" - an agentic AI tool automating recruitment intake, sourcing, and messaging. Today, early adopters are saving 4+ hours per role, reviewing 62% fewer profiles, and seeing a 69% improvement in InMail acceptance rates. They also discuss how AI will affect recruiting roles, candidate requirements, and why LinkedIn profiles are about to get that much more critical.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH MARK, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklobosco/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(01:24) Introducing Hiring Assistant: LinkedIn's First Agentic Product(03:20) The ChatGPT Moment: Microsoft Partnership Changes Everything(05:30) Inside the Intake Process: From Chat Interface to Candidate Search(08:44) The Magic of Agentic Sourcing: "Go Get a Cup of Coffee"(10:06) Purple Squirrel Syndrome: Faster Feedback Loops for Hiring Managers(11:21) "I Love My Job and I Hate My Day": The Recruiter's Dilemma(12:06) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(14:34) LinkedIn Profile Optimization: The New Resume Reality(17:04) ATS Integration: The Next Generation of System Connect(18:33) The Beginning of the End of Sourcing(19:26) Charter Customer Success: Global Construction Company Results(22:30) AI Tool Overwhelm: What Does This Replace?(26:33) Product Access: Who Gets Hiring Assistant?(27:00) The Open to Work Banner Debate(28:12) Profile Pictures and Bias: Microsoft's Responsible AI Approach(30:22) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

With everyone talking about AI, it's easy to feel like your brand has to shout just to be heard. But sounding like everyone else isn't the answer, it's a missed opportunity to connect in a meaningful way.In this episode, we sit down with Steph Bowker, Head of Marketing at Metaview, to talk about what it really takes to stand out in today's crowded B2B landscape. Steph shares her honest perspective on building brands that feel human, specific, and rooted in real value. We explore what makes people care, how to create a brand that feels lived-in and why thoughtful storytelling (inside and outside your company) might just be your strongest asset.If you're looking for practical ways to cut through the noise without losing your voice, you'll want to hear this one.We Also Explore:Why slapping “AI” on your homepage isn't a strategyHow to turn customers into your most powerful marketing channelWhat makes a real community (hint: it's not just a Slack group)How smaller teams can punch way above their weight with sharp storytelling

Dear Heretics is back! Kelli and Nolan explore strategic board engagement for people leaders, covering presentation frameworks, relationship building, and navigating the delicate balance between board influence and CEO loyalty.For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner & CTO of 37signals. He critiques DEI implementation and workplace wokeness, advocates political neutrality at work, and outlines his organizational philosophy emphasizing minimal management, creative constraints, and HR as leadership firewall.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:48) Dear Heretics: The Board Question(01:15) There Is No Best Practice(02:38) Know Your Level (Don't Be 27 at DoorDash)(03:49) If You Don't Set Strategy, Someone Else Will(05:34) The Carta Framework: Show Value, Ask for Help(06:30) Earn the Right Through Your CEO(07:28) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:00) Board Presentation Framework(11:00) Run It Like a Business: The QBR Method(11:51) Building Board Relationships: Start Early(13:00) They're Just F*cking People(14:00) Board Members Are Your Career Funnel(15:50) Start With One: The Relationship Strategy(17:16) The Loyalty Warning: Team CEO, Period(19:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner & CTO of 37signals. He critiques DEI implementation and workplace wokeness, advocates political neutrality at work, and outlines his organizational philosophy emphasizing minimal management, creative constraints, and HR as leadership firewall.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH DHH, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDHH: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/37signals: https://37signals.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:34) "I Want My Code to Sing": Why Programming Is Poetry(04:35) How We Built a Company That Runs Itself(07:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(08:34) The 40-Hour Work Week That Silicon Valley Hates(11:05) The Remote Work Wars: Why Both Sides Are Wrong(15:14) "No Politics at Work": The Two Weeks That Changed Everything(17:00) How Wokeness Held Corporate America Hostage(22:16) The Hardest Two Weeks of My Professional Life(25:28) The DEI Deception: Why Equity Isn't Equality(27:40) Why HR People Don't Suck (And Founders Need Them)(31:00) Final Thoughts: People Go Crazy When Work Is Everything(33:35) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talked to Steve Cadigan, LinkedIn's first hired CHRO. Steve dissects LinkedIn's hypergrowth challenges, contrarian HR principles, and the fundamental shift from acquiring to developing talent internally.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSteve: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cadiganNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Metaview 10x Podcast: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruiting—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:50) LinkedIn's Identity Crisis: When Your Product Is Your Problem(02:40) The Million-Dollar Question: "Why Would Anyone Want to Work Here?"(04:35) HR's Only Two Products: Judgment and Credibility(05:00) The Performance Review Rebellion(05:16) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(07:21) Jeff Weiner's Intensity Philosophy: "I Live Off Chaos"(08:10) The Vulnerability Breakthrough: How a CEO Learned to Inspire(10:15) The Ownership Revolution: Why Leadership Teams Must Own HR(11:15) Remote Work Reality Check: "We Don't Know Yet"(12:00) Blitz Scaling Failures: Inheritors vs. Builders(13:43) The Perfectionist's Trap: "Do You Hear All Those Balls Dropping?"(14:20) Why He'll Never Return: The Six-Year-Old's Question That Changed Everything(15:27) Future of Work: From Buy Talent to Build Talent Economy This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan critically examine employee engagement surveys, arguing they're performative exercises for disconnected executives rather than meaningful tools for understanding and improving workplace sentiment.In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Related article:https://www.businessinsider.com/att-ceo-memo-workplace-loyalty-dead-employees-job-security-2025-8 Nolan's Linkedin post:https://www.linkedin.com/posts/nolan-church_when-can-we-eliminate-employee-engagement[…]m=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAWcjXgBb3Jw6dX16PD9lRJSsxfgqVAqZLw—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:50) The 73% Response Rate That Changed Nothing(02:18) Devil's Advocate: Why Companies Think They Need Surveys(03:34) The Second Order Problem: Getting Data, Doing Nothing(04:30) "Get Out of the Ivory Tower"(05:28) Exit Interviews vs. Real Conversations(06:41) The Employee Perspective: Anonymous Survey Skepticism(07:37) The Performative Dance Exposed(08:43) Surveys as Substitutes for Real Leadership(09:13) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(11:41) Better Alternative: Executives in the Dirt(13:25) The Venture Capital Leadership Model(14:49) The Small Minority That Actually Cares(15:40) The Semantics Problem: Stop Saying "Engagement"(17:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Dave Margulius discussing Quizlet's remarkable 18-year journey from a bootstrapped startup founded with teenage co-founders to a globally successful education platform, sharing insights on building company culture, managing young talent, transitioning from founder to board member, and maintaining mission-driven values while achieving sustainable growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH DAVE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDave: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davemarguliusNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Quizlet: https://quizlet.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:00) The $5 Trillion Education Opportunity(04:06) Meeting Andrew - The 17-Year-Old Co-Founder(06:04) CEO Transitions and Early Career(09:11) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(12:10) Building a Teenage Team(16:03) Managing Young Talent and Pure Adrenaline(19:17) The Shift to VC Funding(22:15) Company Culture and Values(26:19) Mission vs ROI Balance(29:05) 18-Year Journey and Staying Competitive(32:01) Employee Value Proposition and Liquidity(35:00) Competition and Market Position(36:06) Closing Thoughts(37:27) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli critically examine the effectiveness and limitations of traditional exit interviews as organizational diagnostic tools, questioning their performative nature and strategic value.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:42) The Performative Checkbox Problem(01:38) The Fear Factor: Why Employees Won't Tell the Truth(02:39) The Real Exit Interview(04:06) The Drug Story: When Exit Interviews Actually Work(06:06) The Diagnostic Fallacy(07:18) The Neutral Feedback Myth(08:47) The Art of Information Filtering(10:35) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(13:43) The Future People Leader Debate(16:49) Captain vs. Crew: Who Should Own These Problems?(18:11) The Completely Incomplete Nature(18:27) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to Casey Woo, founder of Operators Guild, and explore the evolution of elite business operators—generalist executives who transcend traditional titles to solve complex problems at high-growth companies, featuring insights on AI disruption, and community building.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors: Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH CASEY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINCasey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caseywooNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Operators Guild: https://operators-guild.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:15) WeWork Experience: Working with Adam Neumann(02:52) Key Lessons from WeWork(04:18) Current Market Climate & AI Impact(05:21) The AI Revolution in Customer Support(07:00) AI Management & the "Iron Man" Approach(07:31) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:38) The Unstoppable Nature of AI Adoption(11:31) The Rise of the Operator: Casey's Personal Journey(14:02) Operators Guild: From 9 to 900 Members(14:20) The Four Operator Personas(15:17) Why Titles Have "Screwed Us"(15:35) The Navy SEALs Analogy(16:27) Building Successful Communities(17:55) Do You Ever Miss Operating?(18:43) The Future Path: From Operator to Founder(19:10) Breaking the Retirement Mindset(19:56) Advice for Operators: Have Confidence(21:28) The Power of Team Building(22:00) The Next Level: Capital & Founding(22:31) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan analyze the controversial Windsurf acquisition prompted by Windsurf employee #2's explosive social media post about receiving only 1% equity payout despite Google's $2 billion deal, highlighting Silicon Valley's eroding compensation norms.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Prem's Bombshell Tweet(01:32) The DeepMind vs Cognition Choice(02:16) Clarifying the Exploding Offer(04:15) Kelly's Google Looker Experience(05:00) Why Contract Protections Don't Matter(06:07) Leadership Accountability(07:16) Silicon Valley's Broken Unwritten Rules(08:38) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(11:37) Culture vs Money in Acquisitions(13:00) First Principles: The New Acquisition Reality(14:56) Gary Tan's Tone-Deaf Response(15:41) The Chaos of Modern Tech(17:00) The Power of Social Media Transparency(17:49) Wrap-Up This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan do a deep dive into executive recruiting mastery with VC Andy Price, covering why exec hires fail, back-channeling strategies, post-hire support, and building scalable leadership teams.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH ANDY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINAndy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyprice1/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:02) Why Executive Hit Rates Are So Low(04:01) The Artisanal Process: "Soaking" with Companies(05:21) Back-Channeling Strategy(07:11) Recruiters Are Overpaid: The Real Work Happens After Hire(08:24) When Not to Hire - Too Early Stage Warning Signs(09:01) Sponsors: Planful & MetaView (12:46) How to Vet Search Firms(14:00) Experience vs. Trajectory(16:17) Scaling Up and Comers(17:30) Executive Career Management(20:25) Executive Tenure: Why the "One Year BS" Doesn't Work(22:36) The Authenticity Generation(23:52) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Nolan and Kelli dive deep into the viral Astronomer scandal where the CEO and Chief People Officer were exposed having an affair during a Coldplay concert kiss cam moment. They examine the hypocrisy of executive leadership, the responsibilities that come with high-profile roles, and how this incident damages trust in HR leadership across the industry.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Opening & Context(01:51) Initial Reactions(05:11) The Hypocrisy Factor(08:23) Leadership Responsibility(10:00) Work-Life Integration(15:58) Modern Visibility(18:00) Hypothetical Solutions(21:26) The Gwyneth Paltrow Response(25:00) Impact on Employees(26:00) Industry Implications(30:14) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode, hosts start off with, what else, soccer snark, discussing Chelsea's Trump drama, then a little Tour de France trash-talk. Chad roasts Monster Europe's collapse, blasting Randstad and Apollo as "corporate cowards" ditching workers like bad dates. They dissect HelloWork's lawsuit against Indeed for yanking ATS feeds—Chad calls it a data domination plot, Joel bets on French PR patriotism trumping legal odds. "Buy or Sell" gets savage: MetaView's €30M note-taker? Chad and Lieven sell (no moat, just meh), Joel buys for human touch. Traxlo's €1.6M gig app? Joel and Lieven buy for retail grunt work, Chad sells (automation apocalypse incoming). Ordio's €12M deskless payroll? Joel and Lieven buy, Chad sells (pricing poultry—er, paltry). EQT X snags Adevinta's Spanish ops, InfoJobs included? PE panic—Chad and Joel scream "abandon ship!" And Paris-based Teleperformance gobbles up Agents Only, a Vancouver-based staffing company specializing in online workers for AI data annotation and customer service, which is a fancy way of saying "workers who check expiration dates on milk."

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan sit down with Sarah Tilley, SVP of Global Talent at ServiceNow, to unpack how a $199B company is revolutionizing talent acquisition with AI. Sarah breaks down their two-speed transformation strategy—from optimizing basic recruiting processes to unlocking game-changing talent market intelligence that most companies can't even imagine yet.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH SARAH, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSarah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahtilley/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—ServiceNow: https://www.servicenow.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:09) What is ServiceNow?(04:22) The Two-Speed AI Strategy(13:08) Getting Started with AI Transformation(20:11) The Self-Service Recruiting Era(25:02) The Low Hire, Low Fire Market(28:00) Tracking AI Adoption(32:29) Quality of Hire Deep Dive(35:43) The Future: Skills-Based Hiring This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Ethena CPO Melanie Naranjo, challenging empathy-driven management, exposes toxic executive dynamics, and advocates for logic over emotion in workplace leadership.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH MELANIE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMelanie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melanie-naranjoNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Ethena: https://www.goethena.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:44) CEO-CHRO Partnership Transformation(02:23) The State of HR Leadership(04:08) The HR Crisis Revealed(05:20) The Root Cause Analysis(06:58) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:00) The Anti-Empathy Argument(12:45) HR Community Dysfunction(14:21) The Gender Dynamics Truth(15:28) Executive Team Toxicity Exposed(17:13) The Politics Behind Dysfunction(19:39) Beyond Meritocracy(21:00) The Three Questions Framework(21:54) The Anti-PIP Philosophy(24:00) Direct Feedback That Works(24:42) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan explore compensation testing, remote culture scaling, leadership transparency, and AI adoption challenges through the analytical lens of Christine Centa, HashiCorp's Chief People Officer.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH PETER, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINChristine: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christine-centa-0a809b7/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—HashiCorp: https://www.hashicorp.com/en—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction & Christine's Background(01:15) The Compensation Specialist to CPO Transition(02:26) Current Compensation Landscape & Market Data(04:00) The Midpoint Experiment(05:28) Equity Strategy & New Grant Structures(06:20) Going Public: Private to Public Transition(07:28) Sponsor: Planful | MetaView (10:27) Remote Work Philosophy & Scaling Challenges(11:53) The Connection Crisis(13:00) Leadership Dynamics: The Professor & Accountant(13:51) Transparency as Strategy(14:40) AI Strategy & Implementation Reality(16:00) AI in Recruiting: The Future Frontier(17:17) The AI Arms Race(18:00) The Work Behind the AI Dream(19:25) Preparing Teams for AI Future(20:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Emergency pod: Returning guest Peter Walker (Carta's Head of Insights) analyze the controversial Windsurf deal, where Google's acqui-hire left non-founder employees without equity payout. They unpack the deal, reference Character AI's precedent, and explore how AI-era deals increasingly prioritize top researchers over broader employee bases, fundamentally changing startup risk calculations*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can't live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH PETER, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINPeter: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterjameswalker/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED LINKS:Windsurf's CEO goes to Google; OpenAI's acquisition falls aparthttps://techcrunch.com/2025/07/14/cognition-maker-of-the-ai-coding-agent-devin-acquires-windsurf/Carta:https://carta.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:52) Breaking News: The Windsurf Situation(01:12) The OpenAI-Microsoft IP Rights Drama(03:01) Plot Twist: Cognition's Counter-Offer(04:49) The Employee Equity Problem(06:00) Defending Against "That's How Deals Work" Critics(08:00) The Scarlet Letter Effect(10:00) Regulatory Background: The Lina Khan Era(12:00) Revealed Behavior: What This Shows About Values(13:25) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:00) Talent vs. Product Separation(19:53) The AI Era's R&D Researcher Obsession(22:00) Unequal Distribution of Outcomes(23:28) What Comes Next: Evaluating Startup Risk(24:00) The Founder Psychology Bet(25:00) Equity Structure Solutions(28:58) Becoming AI Native: Personal Brand Strategy(30:56) The New Reality: Expecting Less Care This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan examine the persistent challenge of HR professionals becoming genuine business leaders. Jeff Diana Investor/Entrepreneur, and former CPO of Calendly, join in to dissect tactical strategies for developing business acumen, moving beyond traditional people operations to drive meaningful organizational impact through financial literacy and strategic thinking.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH JEFF, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJeff: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-diana-a1906212/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:21) The Frustration: Why "HR at the Table" Still Doesn't Work(02:13) Jeff's Do's and Don'ts Framework for Business Leadership(04:26) KD's C-Suite Litmus Test(05:50) The Controversial Take: Understanding Founder Irrationality(06:49) Jeff's "Layers of the Cake" Business Metrics(08:35) Sponsors: Planful | MetaView (11:35) Synthesizing Learning for Your Team(12:14) Being the Best-Run Function Strategy(13:43) Career Mobility Benefits(14:10) The SuccessFactors Sales Kickoff Story(15:33) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan critically examine Bolt CEO and Founder Ryan Breslow's announcement that they eliminated their HR department in favor of "People Ops", questioning whether this rebranding actually improves efficiency or just represents clickbait without meaningful organizational change. They explore the tension between removing perceived bureaucratic middlemen and maintaining necessary workplace oversight.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Related Links:Ryan Breslow's LinkedIn Post:https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ryanbreslow_bolt-has-eliminated-its-hr-department-activity-7340377688517365761-0TcL/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Bolt's HR "Elimination" Announcement(01:11) You Gotta Understand the Source First(02:43) Way to Say Something Without Really Saying Anything(03:24) Discussion: Good HR vs. Bad HR and Over-Planning(04:37) Why HR Gets Targeted: Speed and Headcount Issues(05:36) Who is People Ops Really?(06:21) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(09:21) Who is People Ops Really? (continued)(10:07) Business Risk and Future of HR Functions(11:01) The Shift Has Already Been Happening(11:58) The Work Doesn't Go Away(12:22) Future of Work: AI Coaching and Managing Agents(13:21) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

A few weeks ago, we started bringing back essential Heretics 101 content. Today we're revealing insider secrets of equity negotiation that could save you millions. Colleen McCreary recommended this episode, and the stakes couldn't be higher.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:32) The Problem (HR Leaders Don't Understand Equity)(02:05) The Four Essential Questions Checklist(02:14) Question #1 (What's the Fully Diluted Share Count?)(03:53) Question #2 (What's the Strike Price/409A Valuation?)(05:03) Question #3 (What's the Last Preferred Price?)(07:51) The Golden Handcuffs Reality Check(09:38) Question #4 (What's Your Exercise Window?)(10:51) The Negotiation Secrets They Don't Tell You(12:08) Why Strike Price Appreciation Kills You(13:55) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:44) Advanced Negotiation Tactics (21:51) Don't Take Equity at Face Value(22:47) Your Responsibility To Do the Research This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today's episode examines friend of the pod/recurring guest Colleen McCreary's "CEO-VP of HR divorce rate" concept, sparked by a VC's call about his CEO's failed six-month relationship with a seasoned HR leader. Colleen, Kelli, and Nolan explore why traditional interviews miss critical compatibility issues, the tendency to let conflicts fester rather than address them early, and essential strategies for either salvaging these crucial partnerships or ending them professionally.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH COLLEEN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINColleen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenmccrearychiefpplofficer/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Colleen's Medium article on Founder CEO & Head of HR Divorce Rates:https://medium.com/@colleenwheelermccreary/founder-ceo-head-of-hr-divorce-rates-c233c7fda7dcTIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:28) The CEO-VP of HR Divorce Rate Post Origin Story(03:34) Learning from LJ Brock & Brian Armstrong's Relationship(04:13) What Interview Processes Miss: The Hard Stuff(06:13) Colleen's Trigger: Counter-Offers as Extortion(07:39) Why HR Leaders Need to Figure Things Out(08:51) Asking About Traumas in the Interview Process(09:32) Expecting Turbulence vs. Throwing in the Towel(10:14) Sponsors: Planful and Metaview(13:14) The Festering Problem: Avoiding vs. Addressing Issues(16:05) Molehills vs. Mountains: Managing Founder Relationships(18:06) Being a Filter, Not a Burden(18:43) The LinkedIn Marriage Analogy(20:35) Agency & Experience: First-Time Leaders vs. Veterans(21:39) Earning the Right & Paying Your Dues(23:52) Staying Misaligned: A Conscious Choice(25:19) Amicable Divorces & Doing It Right(26:10) Taking the High Road: Long-term Relationship Impact(27:10) 30-Year Relationships Still Matter(28:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli get a behind-the-scenes look at Zapier's AI strategy with CPO Brandon Sammut. He demos some seriously impressive AI tools his team built—interview prep agents, automated workflows, performance tracking—and explains why they require AI skills from every new hire at their 730-person company. Make sure you also watch the video version on Substack and YouTube for the demo done by Brandon on Zapier Agent use cases.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH BRANDON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBrandon: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brandon-sammut-8147b76Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED LINKS:Zapier: https://zapier.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:30) The Four-Level AI Fluency Rubric(07:00) Pure Automation Examples (Non-AI)(13:10) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:00) Bar Raiser Interview Prep Agent Setup(20:20) Live Agent Trigger Demonstration(21:10) Bar Raiser Interview Results & Discussion(26:15) Performance Review Evidence Collection Setup(34:10) Slack Emoji Workflow Demonstration(35:30) Market-Based Adoption Philosophy(36:00) One-on-One Meeting Coach Overview(43:30) One-on-One Coaching Feedback Example(44:00) Trust, Transparency & Implementation Strategy(48:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

First up…Appcast, the leading recruitment marketing platform powered by programmatic, today announced the launch of Appcast Brand Ads, the recruiting industry's first brand marketing solution that tracks to the hire. This innovative solution enables employers to engage people on social channels where they spend vast amounts of time. By bringing Appcast's programmatic technology to social media channels, Appcast Brand Ads allows employers to scale and optimize recruitment campaigns while tracking performance from impression to hire.  https://hrtechfeed.com/new-hr-tech-from-appcast/ Jobright, an AI-native job search platform, announced the launch of Jobright Agent, the ‘first-of-its-kind' AI career agent designed to automate the entire job application process for job seekers. This tool promises to cut job search time by a remarkable 80% and double interview rates, fundamentally changing how professionals find their next career opportunity. https://hrtechfeed.com/indeed-venture-arm-invests-in-ai-career-agent-technology/ CHICAGO– CareerBuilder + Monster (the “Company”) today announced that it has initiated a court-supervised sale process to maximize value, preserve jobs and seamlessly transition ownership of its businesses. https://hrtechfeed.com/careerbuilder-monster-assets-to-be-sold-to-jobget/ Metaview just announced they recently secured $35 million in Series B funding led by Google Ventures, bringing their total funding to $50 million. https://hrtechfeed.com/interview-intelligence-tool-metaview-lands-35m/

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan examine the contested impact of AI on entry-level employment, featuring HR articles debating whether traditional junior roles are disappearing or evolving upward. The discussion explores practical AI implementation challenges, organizational inertia, and real-world examples of companies leveraging custom AI solutions for recruitment and decision-making processes.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED LINKS:Behind the Curtain: Top AI CEO foresees white-collar bloodbath: https://www.axios.com/2025/05/28/ai-jobs-white-collar-unemployment-anthropicJosh Bersin: No, Entry Level Jobs Are Not Going Away:https://joshbersin.com/2025/05/no-entry-level-jobs-are-not-going-away/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:34) The White-Collar Bloodbath vs. Optimistic Takes(01:53) Reality Check: Where's the Actual AI Implementation?(02:35) The Puck Has Moved: Redefining Entry-Level(03:31) Headcount Reality: Flat or Down Since 2022(05:30) Coinbase: The Only Company Actually Doing It(05:58) Sponsors: Planful & Metaview(09:00) Human Inertia: The Real Barrier to AI Adoption(10:47) The Custom GPT Success Story(13:34) Top-Down Mandates Break Through Inertia(14:00) Stop Building Programs, Start Experimenting(16:49) The Biggest Alpha Opportunity Ever(17:23) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Over the next few weeks, we're bringing you some Heretics 101 content - important refreshers on taboo topics that are core to navigating the CPO seat.For today's episode, we're revisiting an early conversation about how to fire C-suite executives that we had with CJ Gustafson from the Run the Numbers podcast. If you're in this business long enough, you're either going to have to fire an executive, or you're going to be the one getting fired. That's just reality. What started as a simple question turned into one of our most candid discussions about severance packages, golden parachutes, and layering. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH CJ, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINCJ: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cj-gustafson-13140948Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:52) The First Steps: When to Exit a C-Suite Executive(02:46) Decision vs. Discussion: Framing the Conversation(05:29) The Fourth Scenario: Growth Outpacing Talent(08:04) Compensation: The Spicy Details(10:36) Pre-Negotiated Severance: Red Flag or Smart Move?(14:50) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:49) Golden Parachutes: The Biggest Payouts(20:47) Equity Acceleration and Exercise Windows(22:35) Rest and Vest: The Perverse Incentive Problem(24:12) Garden Leave Explained(24:51) VCs and CEO Firings: The Reputation Game(27:00) Advice for the Departing Executive(30:13) Controlling the Narrative(31:43) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today we're sharing an episode of the 10x Recruiting podcast which features guest Samy Aumar, the People Systems Excellence Manager at Qonto, shares his actual AI workflows live with Nolan Church and Siadhal Magos (CEO of Metaview). The goal of this series is to demonstrate practical and attainable AI implementation, especially for those executives at companies with AI mandates (like Shopify and Fiverr). This episode highlights Samy's use of AI agents which can be built without coding skills in just an afternoon, transforming recruiting workflows from 2-3 day processes to same-day execution.Want more AI demos? Subscribe to The 10x Recruiting podcast from Metaview on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify for more interviews like this one.—LINKS:Samy's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samyaumar/Qonto: https://qonto.com/en—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction & Series Launch(00:34) The AI Sophistication Gap(01:34) Key Takeaways Preview(02:03) No Engineers Needed(03:00) B-Minus Outputs Beat Blank Pages(04:19) Episode Introduction(05:17) From Experimentation to Central Workflow(06:00) Use Case 1: AI-Quality Interview Transcripts(07:00) Introduction to Dust AI Agents(07:43) Job Ad Agent Demonstration(09:00) Building Agents Without Coding(11:33) Uploading Intake Notes(13:15) Time Savings: 3 Days to 24 Hours(14:00) Backend Configuration(17:17) Use Case 2: Market Intelligence Agent(19:08) Specialized vs General AI Research(21:22) Research Results & Accuracy(23:42) Managing AI Expectations(26:00) Parallel Processing & Multitasking(28:22) Qonto's AI Mandate(29:27) Champion-Based Implementation(30:33) Hiring for AI Curiosity(31:38) Product Roadmap Inspiration(33:01) Future Vision: Meta Platforms(33:23) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church talk to Danielle Mathis, Vice President, Global Talent & HRBP of Clari, revealing how fraudsters orchestrated an elaborate recruitment scam, deceiving 12 job seekers with fake offers while harvesting their personal data. The shocking conversation exposes the dark reality of deepfake candidates infiltrating hiring processes and why traditional recruitment methods are dangerously obsolete in our AI-manipulated world.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

This episode of HR Heretics explores executive search from both sides: being recruited and managing recruitment. Neil Frye, former CPO at Google and Dropbox, and current Chief People Officer at Dotmatics, sits down with Nolan Church and discuss withdrawal strategies, internal versus external search criteria, conscious leadership frameworks, style compatibility, and treating job searches like mutual acquisitions rather than one-sided selections.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich talk to Cynthia "Baz" Shrauner, former Meta HR executive and current Head of People at Electric Capital. Baz discusses her unconventional career move of voluntarily demoting herself twice to focus on work she genuinely enjoyed rather than traditional leadership roles. She candidly explores the tension between ego and fulfillment, Meta's hiring excesses during COVID and subsequent layoffs, and the complexities of DEI initiatives in corporate environments, offering rare insider perspective on Silicon Valley's operational realities.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:

This segment examines the resurgence of "996" work culture (9 AM to 9 PM, six days weekly) among Silicon Valley's early-stage founders. Nolan analyzes the tension between demanding work schedules and talent attraction, drawing from Glen Evans' LinkedIn critique. He argues these intensive cultures suit certain life stages and career priorities, emphasizing that both high-intensity startups and work-life balance approaches can coexist as conscious trade-offs rather than moral imperatives.NOTE: Kelli is away this week spending time with family*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Link to Glen's LinkedIn Post: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/glenevans_startups-leadership-workculture-activity-7328919826930814976-pEy7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAWcjXgBb3Jw6dX16PD9lRJSsxfgqVAqZLwTIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:31) 996 Culture Invades Silicon Valley(01:23) Greylock's Brutal Take(04:06) Does More Hours Equal More Productivity?(05:35) No Substitute For Time(07:18) My DoorDash Grind Days(08:30) Why I Can't Do It Anymore(10:06) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(13:06) The 24-Year-Old Founders Story(14:15) "Don't Hire Me, I'm Too Old"(15:30) I Actually Miss Those Days(16:33) Life Is Trade-offs(16:55) The In-Person Only Founder(18:47) Humans Need Pain To Grow(19:12) Rule Breakers Build The Future(19:30) Appreciate Founder Honesty(19:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Fidelma Butler, Chief People Officer at Couchbase, a NoSQL cloud database platform company. They talk about how to build effective L&D programs by defining clear leadership standards, focusing resources on senior leaders, and integrating learning into daily work instead of traditional training sessions.Fidelma emphasizes that L&D needs to be agile, continuously evolving, and solve actual business problems rather than existing as a separate "nice-to-have" function.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH Fidelma, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINFidelma: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidelmabutler/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Couchbase: https://www.couchbase.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:39) The L&D Challenge at Scale(01:19) Tailoring L&D to Your Organization(03:00) Defining Good Leadership(06:00) Creating Leadership Language and Framework(08:00) Why L&D Struggles - Making Squishy Things Tangible(10:00) Meeting People Where They Are(12:00) Optimizing L&D for Top Performers(16:32) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(19:30) Engagement Surveys Done Right(25:00) When Surveys Conflict with Leadership Vision(28:00) Leaders Teaching Leaders(31:30) Coaching Strategy and Deployment(35:30) The Future of L&D Roles(39:30) Getting Career Development Wrong(42:30) The Promotion Obsession Problem(46:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Sally Thornton, founder of Forshay. Sally shares insights on the fractional executive placement business she's built since 2011. Thornton emphasizes that successful fractional work requires consultative skills, boundary management, and rapid trust-building rather than simply scoped part-time arrangements. If you're thinking of going fractional, this is a must-listen discussion.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH SALLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSally: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallythornton/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Forshay: https://forshay.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:58) What Forge Does(02:33) Trust Barriers in Fractional Work(03:25) The Relational Approach(04:36) Buyer Mindset Challenges(06:10) Marketplaces vs. Agents(10:00) The Adverse Selection Problem(10:56) The Dirty Secret of Fractional(11:45) Different Interview Approach(13:03) Consulting Background Advantage(13:53) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:57) The Ideal Buyer(17:26) Early vs. Late Stage Company Challenges(18:24) CFOs Make Better Clients(18:59) Transparent Pricing Model(21:41) Hourly Rate Guidelines(22:41) W2 vs. 1099 Considerations(23:27) The Honeymoon Phase(24:52) Managing Client Expectations(26:46) Beyond Filling Open Roles(29:08) The Assessment Process(34:29) Evolution from Interim to Fractional(37:05) Advice for New Fractional Execs(38:15) The Black Hole Complaint(40:11) Career Self-Management(42:11) Sustaining a 15-Year Business(43:06) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan explore the art of professional boundary-setting and etiquette. After Nolan shared a LinkedIn post about declining a meeting with a founder who didn't show up on time to their scheduled call, the hosts examine the delicate balance between protecting one's time and extending grace to others. Their conversation delves into how personal boundaries, stress levels, and professional status influence our responses to professional missteps*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK TO NOLAN'S POST:Community Regulation When People Break Social Etiquette—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:16) When LinkedIn Goes Nuclear: The Time Management Debate(02:05) How Your Day Affects Your Tolerance(04:14) Different Cultures, Different Rules: Looker vs Google Time Ethics(07:48) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:48) The Mother Test: When Accountability Matters Most(11:21) Calendar Hijacking: When Professional Boundaries Get Crossed(13:08) Societal Rot or Personal Standards? The Unwritten Rules Debate(15:34) Finding Your Boundary Line(16:14) What's Your Unwritten Rule?(16:22) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Jared Kleinert, founder of Offsite.com, who shares insights on planning effective team retreats that transform from "nice-to-have" into strategic "must-have" events for remote and hybrid companies. Kleinert emphasizes that successful offsites require intentional planning with clear objectives, arguing that thoughtfully designed retreats drive organizational alignment, build trust between teammates, and provide measurable business value beyond just logistics.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH JARED, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJared: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaredkleinertNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Offsite: https://marketplace.offsite.com/inquiry?utm=hrheretics—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:47) Offsite's Business Model and Vision(02:17) Remote Work Trends and Offsite Planning(04:49) Elements of a Successful Offsite(09:38) Measuring Offsite ROI and Effectiveness(14:00) Adapting Offsites During Economic Downturns(16:26) Sponsors Planful | Metaview(19:52) Strategic Offsite Planning and Best Practices(26:46) Balancing Team Building and Business Performance(30:34) Executive Offsite Tactics and Trust Building(34:04) Pre-Offsite Preparation and Intention Setting(37:15) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this candid "HR Heretics" segment, Nolan and Kelli expose the hidden risks of equity compensation, including Nolan's $8 million DoorDash missed opportunity. They reveal essential questions about share counts, strike prices, and exercise windows that can make or break startup wealth. Their message: equity details are negotiable, but education is your responsibility—not the company's.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:52) Being Smart about Equity(01:46) Nolan's $8 Million Mistake(03:05) Understanding Share Count(04:44) Strike Price Explained(06:00) Preferred Price vs. Strike Price(07:43) Net Value Calculation(08:42) Golden Handcuffs Reality(10:31) Exercise Windows(12:00) Negotiation Opportunities(12:26) Tax Implications(14:07) Early Exercise Benefits(15:09) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(18:09) Additional Negotiation Tactics(19:57) Executive Liquidity Options(21:32) Double Trigger Provisions(23:12) Vesting Schedule Negotiation(24:00) Key Takeaways(24:37) Personal Responsibility(26:08) Resources & Research(27:01) Final Thoughts(27:23) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

It's an all new That Real Blind Tech show as Allison, Brian, David, and Jeanine get together to discuss a lot of A.I.   We start off with a few announcements.   Apple is not having a good run of it, as Hackers can now access your devices via AirPlay. Apple released a video urging iPhone users to delete Google Chrome. Will the latest ruling in Apple VS Epic have drastic changes with the App Store?   Will the Department of Justice anti-trust ruling ruin google Search?   Lift has launched Lift Silver for older customers, will it mean an improvement for riders with disabilities?   The new StellerTrek is here for the low low price of $1750.   We then discuss Leasey  and its new sports and games feature.   We then welcome David to the Meta Ray Ban family. Meta has changed the name of MetaView to the Meta A.I. app with a bunch of new features. We discuss the ridiculous new discuss friends feature in the app. We then have some fun with the new digital companion and how it will talk dirty to you.   A new North Carolina bill would require people to share their Identification with social media websites.   Microsoft has made CoPilot Vision available for all Edge users, but does anyone care?   OpenAI has rolled back the latest ChatGPT for being to much of a kiss ass.   Perplexity's new Voice assistant supposedly succeeds where Siri fails.   And it's more of what's Pissing Off Brian Now and Watcha Streaming, Watcha Reading.   To contact That Real Blind Tech Show, you can email us at ThatRealBlindTechShow@gmail.com, join our Facebook Group That Real Blind Tech Show, join us on the Twitter @BlindTechShow

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, the CEO of Metaview, and Nolan Church explore the emerging trend of "CEO AI mandates" from the likes of Tobias Lütke and Aaron Levie at Box.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card.Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhalNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S: The 6 Steps to Master AI: TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:33) The CEO AI Mandate Trend(01:22) Siadhal's Take on AI Mandates(02:35) AI Orchestration as a Career Necessity(03:00) Headcount Management in the AI Era(04:04) AI Leverage vs. Team Size(06:03) Sponsors: Thatch | Planful(08:13) AI Upskilling and Education(09:21) Personal AI Tuition in Organizations(10:18) The Reflexive AI Problem-Solving Approach(11:27) Show and Tell: Learning from Power Users(12:00) Knowing What's Possible as Motivation(13:22) Carrot vs. Stick: Recognizing AI Adoption(14:38) Beyond AI as a Metric: Performance is the Goal(15:34) Wrap(15:58) Sponsor: Metaview This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan unpacks the intricacies of 360 reviews from a management perspective, offering pragmatic approaches to synthesizing overwhelming feedback data. They contrast methodical theme-based analysis with modern AI-assisted solutions, emphasizing that meaningful feedback isn't an annual crucible but a continuous conversation peppered with five compliments per criticism.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:36) Dear Heretics - 360 Reviews Question (00:52) Good vs Bad 360 Reviews (06:34) Sponsors - Planful | Metaview (09:34) Using AI for 360 Reviews (11:38) On Using AI Tools (13:27) Sports Analogy Break (14:45) Getting the Ball Rolling (15:22) Continuous Feedback Approach (17:21) 5:1 Positive Ratio (17:59) Explaining the Why in Feedback (19:20) Making Feedback Enjoyable (19:26) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich interview Troy Sultan who shares his journey from Google to founding Guide, an AI-powered recruiting coordination platform. Sultan challenges traditional recruiting assumptions, arguing modern candidates prefer transparency, speed, and self-service options that let them control their hiring experience.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH TROY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINTroy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troysultan/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKSGuide: https://www.guide.co/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:10) Troy's Exit from Google(01:44) The Cookie-Based Sales Strategy(02:54) Resource vs. Gem(03:33) Product vs. Go-to-Market Lessons(05:23) Selling to Gem(07:31) The Acquisition Strategy(09:25) Working with Brokers(11:46) Marketing to HR Leaders(14:05) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(17:05) The Value of Candidate Experience(19:42) Company Priorities vs. Actions(22:20) Guide: AI-Powered Recruiting Coordination(24:35) AI Adoption Challenges(26:18) Authors vs. Editors Framework(27:44) How Aria Works(30:18) World-Class Candidate Experience(31:31) The Self-Service Revolution(34:03) Customer Industries and Use Cases(37:20) Human Experience Across Job Types(40:03) The Cultural Shift to Self-Service(42:47) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan recap their experience at the recent Sapphire People Leader Retreat focused on the evolving role of CPOs in 2025, covering executive alignment, moral boundaries, burnout prevention, and peer networks. They also share a case of corporate identity theft targeting job candidates, highlighting emerging recruitment security challenges.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:10) The Role of CPO in 2025(02:20) Corporate Deep Fake Fraud Story(03:30) How the Deep Fake Was Discovered(04:00) FBI Involvement & Next Wave of Fraud(05:10) Pelion VC Domain Fraud Case(05:50) Value of Raw Conversations at Retreat(06:10) No One-Size-Fits-All CPO Role(07:00) Executive Alignment Importance(08:30) Sussing Out Cultural Fit(10:10) Moral Boundaries vs. Running Experiments(12:00) Learning from Radical Ideas at Carta(12:30) "Care a Little Less" Philosophy(14:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:14) Avoiding People Leader Burnout(19:20) Building Your Peer Network(21:10) Tactical Work vs. Strategic Leadership(22:20) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Annie Wickman shares insights from her journey as Google alum, first non-founder at Humu, and now Head of People at Character AI. Annie tackles our hardest questions in an unmissable episode. She covers the tensions between product-market fit and company culture, Character AI's unprecedented Google deal structure, taking the leap from people leader to a VC, and how to rebuild organizational trust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH ANNIE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINAnnie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-wickman-3332731/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Character.AI: https://character.ai/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:17) Experience as First Non-Founder at Humu(03:16) Early Employee Challenges & Responsibilities(05:03) Why Annie Stayed at Humu for Four Years(06:30) Product Market Fit vs. Company Culture(09:05) When to Invest in Culture(11:15) Hiring the Right Leaders for Company Stage(11:40) Maintaining Morale When Company Isn't Winning(12:42) Transparency as Trust Builder(13:47) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:47) Rebuilding Trust Through Honest Communication(19:11) Laszlo's Leadership Philosophy: Stretching People(21:02) Annie's Experience in Venture Capital at Forerunner(23:12) Teaching Founders to Fish vs. Providing Services(24:51) How to Evaluate VC Opportunities(26:09) Understanding VC Economics and Carry Structure(30:10) Character AI's Unprecedented Google Deal(32:56) Rebuilding Post-Acquisition: Product Vision Challenges(34:13) Annie's Perspective on the Deal Timeline(37:31) Post-Deal Reset: Napa Offsite and Hackathon(39:29) Employee Ownership After Acquisition(41:29) Building a New Culture While Keeping the Brand(42:11) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss a listener's dilemma about working with ethically questionable founders. They explore the tension between startup rule-bending culture and personal values, advising that leadership requires either full alignment with founders or graceful departure.They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues supporting them.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:52) Listener's Moral Dilemma with CEO (02:46) The Gamble With Me Philosophy (03:07) All In or All Out Leadership (04:09) Separating Morality from Alignment (04:38) The Danger of Staying When Misaligned (06:25) Toxic Without Knowing It (08:06) Modern Approach to Leadership Exits (08:53) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (11:48) Is This Normal Startup Life? (12:07) Understanding Startup Rule-Bending (14:00) The Entrepreneurial Mindset (15:12) The Popsicle Stand Example (16:46) Building Your Leadership Brand (17:27) Working With vs Around Founders (18:19) The Lemonade Stand Rule (19:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com