Podcasts about metaview

Annie Wickman shares insights from her journey as Google alum, first non-founder at Humu, and now Head of People at Character AI. Annie tackles our hardest questions in an unmissable episode. She covers the tensions between product-market fit and company culture, Character AI's unprecedented Google deal structure, taking the leap from people leader to a VC, and how to rebuild organizational trust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH ANNIE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINAnnie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annie-wickman-3332731/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:Character.AI: https://character.ai/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:17) Experience as First Non-Founder at Humu(03:16) Early Employee Challenges & Responsibilities(05:03) Why Annie Stayed at Humu for Four Years(06:30) Product Market Fit vs. Company Culture(09:05) When to Invest in Culture(11:15) Hiring the Right Leaders for Company Stage(11:40) Maintaining Morale When Company Isn't Winning(12:42) Transparency as Trust Builder(13:47) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:47) Rebuilding Trust Through Honest Communication(19:11) Laszlo's Leadership Philosophy: Stretching People(21:02) Annie's Experience in Venture Capital at Forerunner(23:12) Teaching Founders to Fish vs. Providing Services(24:51) How to Evaluate VC Opportunities(26:09) Understanding VC Economics and Carry Structure(30:10) Character AI's Unprecedented Google Deal(32:56) Rebuilding Post-Acquisition: Product Vision Challenges(34:13) Annie's Perspective on the Deal Timeline(37:31) Post-Deal Reset: Napa Offsite and Hackathon(39:29) Employee Ownership After Acquisition(41:29) Building a New Culture While Keeping the Brand(42:11) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss a listener's dilemma about working with ethically questionable founders. They explore the tension between startup rule-bending culture and personal values, advising that leadership requires either full alignment with founders or graceful departure.They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues supporting them.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:52) Listener's Moral Dilemma with CEO (02:46) The Gamble With Me Philosophy (03:07) All In or All Out Leadership (04:09) Separating Morality from Alignment (04:38) The Danger of Staying When Misaligned (06:25) Toxic Without Knowing It (08:06) Modern Approach to Leadership Exits (08:53) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview (11:48) Is This Normal Startup Life? (12:07) Understanding Startup Rule-Bending (14:00) The Entrepreneurial Mindset (15:12) The Popsicle Stand Example (16:46) Building Your Leadership Brand (17:27) Working With vs Around Founders (18:19) The Lemonade Stand Rule (19:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

HR Heretics welcomes back guest Brett Queener, Managing Director at Bonfire Ventures, for a check in on the current venture landscape.Fresh from raising a $245 million fund, Queener explores how AI is fundamentally changing software companies, emphasizing the need for rapid iteration and questioning traditional playbooks. He shares thoughtful perspectives on evaluating AI startups beyond the hype, the changing nature of talent requirements, and why successful companies must embrace a "change economy" mentality to thrive.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH BRETT, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBrett: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettqueener/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Bonfire Ventures: https://www.bonfirevc.com/—OTHER RECOMMENDED LINKS:The Change Economy: —TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (01:07) Bonfire's $245M New Fund (03:24) Today's Frothy AI Market (06:30) The 11X AI SDR Case Study (08:18) AI's Revolutionary Impact on Products (11:12) First-Time vs. Repeat Founders in AI (14:39) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(17:38) Rethinking How Companies Operate (19:43) Hiring in the AI Era (22:58) Teams Getting Younger and AI Native (25:04) The Future of Junior Roles (28:22) The 11X Controversy Explained (30:29) Evaluating What's Real in AI Companies (33:29) Vibey Revenue and Real Value (37:00) Product Viability and Renewals (39:42) Assessing Founders and Products (42:10) The Case for In-Office Collaboration (44:31) The "Holy S**t" Product Moment (46:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, Metaview CEO, and Nolan Church dissect Anthropic's groundbreaking paper “Tracing the thoughts of a large language model” released on March 27, 2025. They explore surprising findings: LLMs plan ahead rather than simply predicting next tokens, think across multiple languages simultaneously, and often present explanations that satisfy humans rather than reflecting their actual reasoning processes.The conversation highlights the paradox of developing powerful AI systems without understanding their workings, raising implications for deployment, safety, and the "intelligence on tap" paradigm reshaping our technological relationship. We should all be paying attention.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Anthropic's featured paper: https://www.anthropic.com/news/tracing-thoughts-language-model Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/—OTHER RECOMMENDED LINKS:Mercor: https://mercor.com/—TIMESTAMPS(00:13) Intro(00:45) Anthropic's Mind-Blowing Paper (01:37) LLMs Think Across Languages (02:04) Faked Reasoning in AI Models (02:28) AI Hallucinations Explained (03:00) First Paragraph Reveals Uncertainty (05:18) Beyond Next Token Prediction (07:23) Evaluating LLMs Without Understanding (08:44) More Human Than Software (10:05) Why You Should Experiment With AI (11:13) The Airplane Analogy (12:26) Safety Concerns for Future AI (12:54) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:27) Dario Amodei on AI Self-Policing (18:05) OpenAI's $300B Valuation (19:33) Intelligence on Tap (22:02) Retraining Google Habits (24:35) Agentic AI & Reinforcement Learning (27:15) Human Training for AI Models (30:25) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today we're excited to introduce you to an episode of 10x Recruiting, a podcast from Metaview hosted by our very own Nolan Church. 10x Recruiting is focused on conversations with top talent leaders to help listeners build world-class teams and stay ahead in the evolving recruiting landscape.Today's guest is Arthur Matuszewski, who shares insights from his diverse career at Bridgewater, Better.com, and his firm Carrara. He emphasizes intellectual honesty, focusing on work outputs rather than titles, and avoiding false negatives in hiring. Nolan says he's one of the most insightful guests ever.Matuszewski advocates for evaluating talent based on actual value creation rather than pedigree, and stresses the importance of adapting recruitment strategies to each org's unique context rather than relying on standardized playbooks.Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast on YouTube, Apple, or Spotify for more interviews like this one.YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@10x_Recruiting_podApple: Spotify: —LINKS:Arthur's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthurmatuszewski/Carrara: https://www.carrara.is/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:53) Episode preview (05:51) Arthur's career journey overview (07:53) Lessons learned at Bridgewater (10:41) Recruiting for teams vs individuals (12:35) Bridgewater's culture of experimentation (16:47) High attrition rate and false negatives (23:22) Better.com's rise and viral moment (28:02) Defining intellectual honesty (30:08) Carrara and focusing on the work (37:56) Balancing productivity with thinking time (40:03) Avoiding sunk costs in talent decisions (43:31) Carrara's process for delivering winners (45:43) Showing founders what the market is saying (47:19) Internal vs external talent perspectives (51:58) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church are joined by Lucy Adams, founder of Disruptive HR. Adams critiques traditional HR's rigid policies, advocating instead for judgment-based approaches that treat employees as grown-ups. The conversation explores challenges facing HR business partners, the evolution of DEI initiatives, and how organizations can create environments where people thrive through high-trust cultures, rather than compliance-driven systems.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card.Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH LUCY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINLucy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucykadams/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Disruptive HR: https://disruptivehr.com/Lucy's article “HR Business Partner: The toughest role in HR?”: https://disruptivehr.com/hr-business-partner-the-toughest-role-in-hr/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:17) Lucy's Background and BBC Experience(03:08) Personal Connection and BBC Stories(04:25) Origins of Disruptive HR(07:00) Evolution of HR and Post-COVID Workplace Changes(11:39) Trust and Autonomy in Workplace Decisions(16:56) Trust as Foundation for Business Success(17:32) Sponsors: Thatch | Planful(20:27) Progressive HR Policies and Examples(23:53) HR Business Partner Role Challenges(25:13) Sponsor: Metaview(27:55) Messy Reality of Great HR Work(31:00) HR's Focus on Process vs. Real Impact(33:26) Current HR Trends and Community Concerns(35:56) DEI Evolution and Conversation Approaches(45:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Kelli and Nolan discuss the profound impact of personal crises on work life. They share vulnerable stories about caring for ill family members—Kelli's mother's recent stage four cancer diagnosis and Nolan's father-in-law's illness and passing. They reflect on the impossibility of compartmentalizing personal trauma, the importance of workplace support networks, and practical advice for both those experiencing crises and colleagues supporting them.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Thatch makes it easy to give your team great healthcare. Save ~$1620 per employee yearly while giving them customizable plans. Visit https://thatch.AI/HR for a demo and receive a $100 gift card. Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (02:24) Impact of Crisis on Professional Life (03:19) Becoming a Parent to Your Parent (03:41) The Adrenaline Phase vs. Reality Setting In (04:18) Nolan's Story of His Father-in-Law (05:47) How Crisis Changes Your Perspective (07:11) The Impossibility of Compartmentalizing Life (08:02) The Importance of Strong Work Relationships (09:21) The Speed of Life-Changing Events (10:01) Gaining Wisdom Through Difficulty (10:18) The Value of Having a Coach (12:22) Using Your Support System Effectively (13:19) Finding a New Balance in Crisis (14:10) Practical Ways to Help Someone in Crisis (14:49) Sponsors: Thatch | Planful(17:00) Navigating the Healthcare System (18:03) The Critical Need for Medical Advocacy (19:35) How Crisis Impacts Your Work Priorities (20:17) Asking the Right Questions When Supporting Others (21:04) Sponsor: Metaview This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this week's 'Dear Heretics' segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss recent HR tech industry drama involving Rippling and Deel, where a "spy" from Deel allegedly infiltrated Rippling to steal competitive information.They describe Rippling's elaborate "honeypot" trap to catch Deel's corporate spy and how this incident exemplifies the evolution of business conflicts from private disputes to public social media spectacles, highlighting workplace transparency's growing complexity.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Deel and Rippling Drama(05:00) Rippling's Allegation: Spy in Dublin Office(06:19) The 'Honeypot' Trap Explanation(07:48) "That's Not a Honeypot, That's a Mousetrap"(09:00) Corporate Espionage More Common Than People Think(12:00) Going Public on Twitter as the "Master Stroke"(14:00) Sponsor: Metaview(16:16) New Era of CEOs Going to War(17:15) The Next Phase: Everything Is Public Now(19:24) The Spy Locks Himself in the Bathroom(22:04) Sunlight Is the Best Disinfectant This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Nolan and Kelli welcome back friend of the pod David Hanrahan, who's just 60 days into his new role as CHRO at SolarWinds. The conversation kicks off with candid reflections on the Transform 2025 conference - the good, the bad, and what's missing from HR conferences today. They also dig into David's challenges and learnings transitioning to his new role, and a discussion on the changes coming for L&D initiatives.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH DAVID, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDavid: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidhanrahan/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Solarwinds: https://www.solarwinds.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(00:37) David's Take on Transform(03:33) The Grittiness of HR(05:42) Value of In-Person Relationships(08:50) Transform's Community Session(10:36) Blackjack, Craps, and the Games(11:28) David's New Role at SolarWinds(15:35) Sponsor: Metaview(17:29) G Suite vs Microsoft Outlook(18:00) Juggling New Job Responsibilities(20:35) Katie Burke's Self Reflection(22:18) Painful Changes and Lessons from Multiple CHRO Roles(25:03) The Weird Moment for L & D(28:55) Effective Leadership Development(33:41) David's BHAG: Leadership Development(35:29) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In another edition of 'Dear Heretics' Nolan and Kelli tackle talent calibration sessions. They address how HR needs to balance facilitation versus providing opinions and establish clear processes beforehand. They explore calibration's dual purpose: ensuring consistent evaluation standards and developing forward-looking talent plans. Above all, calibration needs to be an iterative process requiring transparency and company-wide understanding to avoid becoming toxic or misunderstood.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(00:56) The Fine Line of HR Facilitation(01:46) Setting Process Rules Before Calibration(03:35) HR Should Opine with Objectivity(05:47) The New York Times Test(06:26) Sponsor: Metaview(08:20) Purpose of Calibration Sessions(09:37) Importance of Forward-Looking Discussions(10:35) Calibration Process Flow(12:16) Transparency Across the Company(13:10) Building the Calibration Muscle(14:27) Real-World Implementation(15:30) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan are joined by Roxanne Petraeus, CEO of Ethena, to talk about her journey from the US army to founding an HR tech company. She shares her views on leadership, the distinction between training and learning, and building a culture of intellectual meritocracy in a remote-first environment. The conversation explores how compliance training evolved from her military experiences, covers the role of Chief People Officers, and reveals how military discipline shaped her approach to building high-performance tech cultures without superficial perks.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Friend of the pod Colleen McCreary discusses some big news: her return to a CPO role at a remote-first public company (Confluent). She shares insights on navigating the first 90 days, organizational change, implementing a company-wide initiative to eliminate unnecessary processes, and gearing up for lots of 1:1s. Colleen, Kelli, and Nolan discuss transparent leadership, building community in remote environments, and bringing humanity to workplace policies—all while balancing the challenges of joining an established company as an executive with a public reputation*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

In this episode, Raza is joined by Shahriar Tajbakhsh, the co-founder of Metaview. They discuss how Metaview's AI scribe automates interview note-taking, how AI agents can surface top candidates from thousands of resumes, and why hiring managers should think of AI as a co-worker, not just a tool. Raza's recomended reading: Creating a LLM-as-a-Judge That Drives Business Results.Chapters:00:00 - Introduction03:32 - How AI Co-Workers Are Transforming Recruiting06:21 - Inside MetaView: AI Scribe and Workflow Automation09:11 - Unlocking Hiring Insights with AI-Driven Conversations11:30 - Balancing AI Innovation and User Adoption14:05 - Metaview's Tech Stack and the Role of LLMs18:29 - How MetaView Generates Superhuman Interview Notes23:18 - The Challenges of Building Reliable AI Hiring Agents32:40 - The Future of AI in Hiring: Automating Job Descriptions40:26 - AI Co-Workers That Work While You Sleep47:08 - Why Vertical AI Will Win Over General AI Agents50:24 - The Underrated Power of Graph-Based AI------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Humanloop is the LLM evals platform for enterprises. We give you the tools that top teams use to ship and scale AI with confidence. To find out more go to humanloop.com 

Nolan and Kelli discuss tech job search strategies, emphasizing proactive networking over mass applications., and recommend targeted outreach with concise value propositions that highlight business impact. They stress building relationships both inside and outside your company, maintaining professional connections, and adapting to a job market that increasingly demands quantifiable contributions.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Nolan and Kelli talk about Jamie Dimon's leaked critique of remote work while examining the collision between post-pandemic workplace expectations and corporate realities. They explore leadership's critical role in employee engagement, the shifting talent marketplace, and how organizational culture ultimately determines whether flexibility becomes an asset or liability in modern workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

In this installment of AI Corner, Siadhal Magos, the CEO of Metaview, and Nolan Church discuss 'agentic AI' in a practical and relevant way for HR pros. They dig into what agentic AI is today vs future expectations and debate current tool limitations. They also share their current AI tool stack, workflows, and their overall approach to viewing AI like a 'junior colleague'.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Kelli and Nolan talk about candidate feedback during hiring processes and debate whether companies should provide feedback to rejected candidates, especially those who've invested significant time in interviews and assignments. They discuss recruiter bandwidth challenges and liability concerns while advocating for human-centered feedback approaches, especially for onsite candidates, plus advice on requesting feedback gracefully.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH ANNA, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINKelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The Core Issue: Lack of Feedback After Extensive Interviews(01:00) The Reality of Lean Teams and Bandwidth Constraints(02:15) The Liability Concern: Company Policy Against Sharing Feedback(03:00) A Shift in Perspective: Treating Candidates With Respect(04:06) The Importance of Feedback After On-Site Interviews(04:20) Setting Candidate Expectations: Establishing a "Contract"(05:49) Clarity of Identity: Defining Company Approach to Feedback(06:55) The Long-Term Impact of Thoughtful Candidate Experience(07:13) A Practical Approach: Phone Calls for On-Site Candidates(08:47) Sponsor: Metaview(10:41) Importance of Live Feedback(11:01) Worst-Case Scenarios and the Skill of Giving Feedback(12:41) Recruiters as People People - Navigating Difficult Conversations(13:29) The Need for Recruiters to Develop Hard Conversation Skills(14:00) HR BP skills on the recruiting team(14:44) The Candidate's Perspective: Managing Expectations(15:32) How to Ask for Feedback(16:28) Expanding Your Network and Paying it Forward(18:11) Don't Underestimate How Small the World Is(18:34) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Iain Roberts, Global Head of Employee Experience at Airbnb, discusses experimenting in HR in 2025, the design-thinking reshaping organizational structures, and why CEO Brian Chesky's ‘Founder Mode' is much misinterpreted. Iain covers innovative approach to flexible work, cross-functional alignment, and treating employee programs as evolving products requiring continuous refinement.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—LINK/S:Airbnb: https://www.airbnb.com/—REFERENCE/S:NVIDIA's Jensen Huang says that IT will ‘become the HR of AI agents':https://fortune.com/2025/01/09/nvidia-ceo-jensen-huangt-take-over-hr-ai-agents/—KEEP UP WITH IAIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINIain: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsiain/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:13) From Designer to HR Leader: Iain's Journey (01:15) "Everything Needs to Be Designed" Philosophy (03:09) Designing Systems of People and Structures (04:47) Bringing Design Thinking to HR at Airbnb (08:03) Airbnb's One Roadmap Approach: 7,000 People, One Focus (07:21) Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Culture & Innovation(10:26) Tactically Transforming an HR Team with Design Thinking(11:47) Treating HR as Products and Services (13:14) The Future of HR Product Management (14:36) Sponsor: Metaview(16:30) Founder Mode: Misinterpretations and Brian Chesky's Approach(23:00) Airbnb's Shift to a Single Product Roadmap(26:54) Design-Led Culture and Attention to Detail at Airbnb(28:48) Prototyping & Iterating with Human Experiences: Challenges(30:50) Airbnb's Gathering Strategy and Flexible Work Philosophy(33:48) Airbnb's Contrarian Stance on Remote Work (Live & Work Anywhere)(39:45) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Anna Binder, Head of People at Asana, shares her journey as an HR leader, her approach to board membership at CultureAmp, and her philosophy on talent management. The discussion covers the nitty gritty of preparing and contributing in board meetings, long-term DEI initiatives, and the importance of authentic leadership in HR, particularly highlighting the value of playing the long game in organizational development.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—LINK/S:Asana: https://asana.com/—KEEP UP WITH ANNA, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINAnna: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annabinder/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:47) Becoming a Board Member at Culture Amp(05:33) The Importance of Taking Calls and Building Relationships(07:10) How to Prepare for and Participate Effectively on a Board(11:48) Examples of "Operating" vs. Asking the Right Questions as a Board Member(14:57) Sponsor: Metaview(16:57) Anna's Experience Building MuleSoft(19:00) Navigating Disagreements and Being "Invited to Exit"(21:12) Sharing the News and the Importance of Transparency(22:50) Finding the Right Fit and the Role of Values(25:57) Joining Asana(26:26) Ensuring Alignment During the Interview Process(29:35) How to Maintain Stamina and Interest Over a Long Tenure(31:14) Examples of Attention to Detail and Values Alignment at Asana(31:46) Examining the CEO's Calendar During Interviews(33:05) Anna's Controversial Recruiting Philosophy(33:16) Recruiting Top Talent(35:42) DEI at Asana: Long-Term Vision and Business Outcomes(39:38) The Importance of Being in the Right Room(40:09) Playing the Long Game on DEI(41:59) Encouraging People to Enter the Field(44:31) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Nolan and Kelli talk about retaining top-performing employees (the crucial 1%) and emphasize that compensation alone isn't sufficient; leaders must combine verbal recognition, proactive compensation strategies, transparency, and genuine appreciation. They stress the importance of eliminating compensation anxiety for these key employees and building long-term relationships, and argue that thoughtful, personalized treatment of top talent ultimately benefits both the individual and organization.Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introdu(00:13) Defining the Top 1%(00:57) Shifting Trends in Job Offers and Compensation(02:04) Appreciating Top Talent(03:01) The Importance of Appreciation Beyond Monetary Compensation(03:56) Balancing Appreciation and Competitive Compensation(05:02) Transparency in Compensation Decisions(07:49) Sponsor: Metaview(09:43) Four Pillars: Appreciation, Thoughtfulness, Proactivity, and Transparency(12:08) The Expectation of Transparency(12:43) Long-Term Career Involvement with Top Performers(14:21) Reciprocity in Employer-Employee Relationships(14:53) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

AI Agents in TA & HR Hype vs Reality?   Some people are saying that will be the year of the AI Agent - an advancement of AI where it crosses over from being an amazing tool to being a competent colleague. The Google Whitepaper shared in recruiting brainfood a few weeks ago was an outstanding introduction to the topic and we're going to use this session to deep dive into state of play when it comes to Agentic AI   You will learn what TA Leaders think about:   - What is Agentic AI? - Why is this a step change from 'normal AI'? - Do we have AI Agents currently out there in production? - In what fields or sectors: can we see one in action? - How are AI agents built? - What might be the use cases for Agentic AI in Recruitment? - How do we anticipate Agentic AI making an appearance in the workflow? - Are there any Agentic AI's operating in recruiting or HR right now? - What is the best thing that TA / HR should do in given what we know about Agentic AI?   All this and more on Brainfood Live On Air. We're with Johannes Sundlo, People Director, (Avalanche Studios Group), Jessie Schofer, Founder (Stakkd), Simão Nogueira, Head of AI (Talent Protocol) & Jose Kadlec, Author (HR Robosapiens) - on Friday 14th Feb, 11.00am GMT   Follow the channel here (recommended) and click on the green button to register for this show.     Ep292 is sponsored by our friends Metaview   Metaview is the No #1 AI Scribe purpose-built for recruiting.   Now with Metaview Free Plan, there is no excuse not to have an AI interview note taker. If you want to improve your hiring efficiency in 2025 and NOT yet implemented an AI interview note taking tool, then there is no longer any excuse: Metaview Free is a zero cost opportunity to build efficiencies into your own workflow; Metaview are SO confident that you will see the value that you will want to get your whole team and hiring managers on it too.   Sign up for a demo here, or just get on with the free plan here.

Nolan and Kelli talk about AI's role in hiring processes, sparked by Anthropic's policy against using AI in job applications. They explore the tension between AI as a valuable tool and its potential for interview deception, ultimately advocating for a more integrated approach where candidates openly demonstrate their AI usage skills rather than attempting to restrict or hide it.Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS PODCAST:Gizmodo Article: “Anthropic Wants You to Use AI—Just Not to Apply for Its Jobs”https://gizmodo.com/anthropic-wants-you-to-use-ai-just-not-to-apply-for-its-jobs-2000558490Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/Final Round AI: https://www.finalroundai.com/Sora: https://openai.com/sora/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:26) Initial Reactions and Perspectives to Anthropic's Policy(02:23) AI as a Tool vs. Replacement for Human Skills(03:36) AI-Powered Interview Cheating.(04:11) Practical AI Usage Throughout the Application Process(06:21) Sponsor: Metaview(08:15) Authenticity vs. AI Assistance(10:09) Polarities and Gradients of AI Usage(11:16) The Problem of Cheating and the "Open Book" Interview Approach(12:30) Using AI During In-Person Interviews(13:33) Adapting to AI in Hiring and Education(14:18) Audience Engagement and Future Solutions(15:03) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Entrepreneur Jesse Tinsley - founder of Employer.com and other successful tech ventures - discusses his consortium's bid to acquire TikTok alongside MrBeast. The dialogue with Kelli and Nolan examines the philosophical and practical implications of executive compensation reduction during corporate restructuring, while illustrating how digital discourse can evolve into substantive debate when moved from social media to direct dialogue.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—LINK/S:Employer.com: https://www.employer.com/—KEEP UP WITH JESSE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJesse: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessetinsleyNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:55) Update on the TikTok Acquisition(02:25) Motivation Behind Acquiring TikTok with Mr. Beast(04:38) How TikTok Fits into Jesse's Business Portfolio(07:07) Discussion on Executive Compensation and Layoffs(10:28) Specifics on Executive Salary Cuts(11:00) Sponsor: Metaview(12:57) Executive Compensation(15:34) The Importance of Leadership Accountability(18:16) Cultural Impact of Executive Pay Cuts(19:12) Wrap(21:05) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Adam Ward (founding partner, Growth by Design) discusses the current landscape of executive hiring in people/talent roles, particularly the prevalence of "pocket listings" - positions filled through private networks rather than public postings. He offers insights into what CEOs value in people leaders (business-driven mindset, operational excellence), how candidates can effectively navigate professional networks, and the importance of structured hiring processes. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

James Mackey and Elijah Elkins speak with Siadhal Magos, Co-Founder and CEO of Metaview, about the methods MetaView uses to maximize recruitment potential, including AI-driven candidate rediscovery and strategic compensation alignment. He shares how AI technology enhances hiring efficiency and precision, enabling organizations to make informed decisions based on real-time data from candidate interactions. Thank you to our sponsor, SecureVision, for making this show possible! Our host James Mackey Follow us:https://www.linkedin.com/company/82436841/#1 Rated Embedded Recruitment Firm on G2!https://www.g2.com/products/securevision/reviewsThanks for listening!

Kelli and Nolan examine the art of building authentic company values. Through real-world experiences, they reveal the methodical process of transforming abstract principles into tangible organizational behavior that drives meaningful cultural change.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co**For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Discussion on Company Values(01:30) Importance of Leadership and Top Performer Alignment(02:19) Company Core Values and Honesty(02:43) Scaling Culture in Founder-Led Companies(03:46) Making the Intangible Tangible(04:23) Revealed vs. Stated Character(04:40) The Benefit of Outsourcing the Process of Developing Company Values(05:54) Company Values Are Always Evolving(06:27) The Goldilocks Approach(07:48) Sponsor: Metaview(09:52) Quick Process to Rough Draft(10:20) Doordash Example(11:56) Pendo's Working Committee and Bottoms Up Approach(13:19) The Importance of Timing(14:25) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Kelli and Nolan tackle a listener's frustration with a painfully slow reorg process, diving into the eternal tension between perfect planning and actually running the business. When HR and legal reviews stretch into week four, should you keep waiting for perfection or pull the trigger? Towards the end of the episode, Kelli and Nolan get into brass tacks offering tactical timelines to execute a reorg based on hypothetical examples.*Email us your ‘Dear Heretics' questions: hrheretics@turpentine.co **For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsor: Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics —KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDIN Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/ Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/ —Timestamps:(00:00) Intro(00:19) The Reorg Dilemma(00:56) Challenges in Big Companies(03:00) Balancing Perfection and Speed(04:43) HR & Legal Risk(08:55) Sponsor: Metaview(10:49) Employment Lawyers' Limitations(12:33) Intellectual Trap(13:28) Workshopping Different Scenarios(15:23) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Tom Clayton, COO of Peek, shares his unconventional playbook for building world-class teams. From his data-driven "employee attribute chart" to his rule of "don't be a brand b***h," Tom breaks down how he's scaled companies from 50 to 2000+ employees.He dishes on everything from why he sends champagne to candidates' hotel rooms to why he encourages employees to quit and start their own companies.If you're listening on podcast platforms, be sure to check out our Substack or YouTube channel to see Tom's framework slides onscreen:Substack: https://hrheretics.substack.com/p/smart-hiring-with-tom-claytonYouTube: Smart Hiring with Tom Clayton*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Kelli and Nolan unpack the delicate art of layering – that awkward moment when someone gets a new boss – while calling out the pitfalls of secret searches and celebrating the often-forgotten heroes of early startup days. Equal parts tactical advice and therapy session for growing companies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Think AI is just about robots summarizing your emails? Think again. Metaview co-founder and CEO Siadhal Magos reveals how AI's real impact in an org is making sense of workplace conversations, performance reviews, and all the messy human stuff that HR deals with.Start recognizing the opportunities presented by ‘unstructured data' to transform HR from subjective guesswork to data-driven decisions, without losing the human touch.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Nolan and Kelli talk about the culture shock of moving from corporate behemoths to the startup wild west. They share battle-tested wisdom on surviving the transition - from mastering the art of founder relationships to embracing the (sometimes brutal) transparency demands of startup employees. Along the way, they reveal how corporate luxuries like two-hour gym breaks get replaced by the exhilarating but exhausting reality of building something from scratch.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Kelli and Nolan start with a heartfelt discussion about LA fires before diving into the art of handling CEO mandates for attrition targets. They reveal insider strategies for transforming harsh directives into meaningful performance frameworks, while warning against becoming the dreaded "person of no."*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Colin Zima, former Looker exec turned Omni CEO, reveals how he runs a 65-person Series B startup with no HR or G&A team. Learn why he believes in minimal bureaucracy, why founders should do the "dirty work," and what really breaks after a Google acquisition.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

From Square to Nextdoor, Bryan Power reveals why copying Big Tech's playbook might be your biggest mistake.Find out why Square banned hiring from the payments industry while building a payments company. Discover how conventional wisdom about senior talent can become startup kryptonite and why the safe choice isn't always the smart choice.Bryan Power is a veteran Silicon Valley People executive who's shaped talent strategy at tech giants like Google and Yahoo, built Square from 150 employees, and now leads People at Nextdoor where he champions innovative approaches to hiring and leadership development.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Happy New Year from HR Heretics!Together, we've built something extraordinary: a community of forward-thinking HR professionals who dare to question the status quo, welcome straight talk, and thrive on healthy debate.In today's special year-end episode, we're sharing some of our top moments, most controversial takes, and the conversations that simply blew our minds with new approaches to people, hiring, managing, and shaping the culture of high performing teams. Think of this as your ultimate HR Heretics highlight reel – where spicy takes meet practical wisdom.So whether you're a longtime heretic or just discovering us today, buckle up. Come January 2nd 2025, we'll be back with new guests.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Molly Graham: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3gegNOB1RSWuKofaWcjYWS?si=AGhfhyhgRsu8LSUlN7wtjgTomas Tungusz: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1B4aYWnV9pJkcQuCgq1tTy?si=d-iRpEMrQX62JwiKQi9nGgVijay Pendakur: https://open.spotify.com/episode/4ccUUyNPVUjBEc3V9h1SEf?si=LLhIXfbkSMaWaIyPnfHmfAPatty McCord: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2nHxmrGnGFJ23ropYPc4YE?si=9WzJ1VdnQjS4vlS7kbBy8AAndy Price: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2LmfYrgz58M1bjU4kj8t7i?si=UpCAZwNkR_SVg-29AY-_ZgColleen McCreary: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0WuLzUYeDaPIsOTbtTCZFD?si=EnzuH3v-S9SO1zTCBvBwngBrett McQueener: https://open.spotify.com/episode/666pMzHni919QMMhe4NPWQ?si=vRyeGi3XSEuHaEjKZQFVewMatt Oberhart: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6lYnLlZrBGNZOdw97NoElB?si=vwJTyZp4SIyQzgDQY6eOFALJ Brock: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Jj5U59L703HKVZNg9QJef?si=5Oz5FpnDT9yHO2YekmY9jwDHH: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6AD2rSoIi9gF0WlZ3gqoz3?si=Km774GZJSraHW4ljuI0f-gPeterson Conway: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5jQ2TsSMMmlWuJ3vAayHoR?si=SdnrYwnZQQSo4f5tR2XLfw--TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:15) Molly Graham(00:53) Tomas Tungusz(02:03) Vijay Pendakur(03:15) Patti McCord(04:44) Andy Price(05:50) Colleen McCreary(06:41) Brett McQueener(07:49)  Matt Oberhart(08:44) LJ Brock(09:46) DHH(10:56) Peterson Conway(12:21) Nolan's Best(14:14) Kelli's Best(15:02) Wrap(15:08) Sponsor: Metaview This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

It's been quite a year! Kelli and Nolan bare it all in their 2024 wrap-up. Get their must-read books, binge-worthy podcasts, and raw personal journeys - including Kelly's identity crisis and Nolan's toughest year yet. Plus, hear why 2025 might be the year to go 'risk on' and why your company's headcount could be holding you back. No fluff, just real talk from two HR leaders who've been there.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Are digital workers coming for your job? In this episode, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos— our resident AI expert— breaks down the rise of AI-powered SDRs and what it means for the future of work. From 11x.ai's $75M raise to replace human sales reps, to broader implications for recruiting and tech roles, discover why VCs are betting big on AI labor. This is a candid discussion about job displacement, productivity gains, and why getting your hands dirty with AI might be your best career move.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Ever wondered why your HR team feels like a bunch of separate countries? Tune in as Kelli and Nolan reveal why mixing your People Ops like finger paint might be the secret sauce to scaling – and why that messy feeling means you're actually crushing it.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Chris Yeh – author, venture partner, and co-writer of Blitzscaling (with Reid Hoffman) – shares insights from his multifaceted career as a Silicon Valley insider. Yeh discusses staying relevant in tech, the necessary skill of unlearning, and why traveling with potential partners might be the best way to assess compatibility. Yeh gives our listeners a masterclass in adaptability and authentic leadership.Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Tired of hearing "HR needs to be more business-focused" without any real direction? In this episode, Kelli and Nolan cut through the noise with actionable insights from veteran CPO Jeff Diana. Learn why joining sales calls, understanding your P&L, and getting your hands dirty in customer support might be your secret weapons. Discover how top HR leaders transformed from "the team in the corner" to invaluable business partners – and how you can, too.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Ever wonder what happens when HR leaders get real about C-suite scrutiny? Join Kelli, Nolan and friend of the podcast, Colleen McCreary, as they spill the tea on transforming those dreaded "show me the numbers" moments into power moves. Turns out, the secret sauce isn't hiding from spreadsheets—it's owning them with style.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

From pioneering parental leave strategies to 3 AM workout sessions, Warner Bros Discovery's SVP of People Donald Knight reveals how vulnerability, authenticity, and physical discipline shape exceptional leadership. Donald joins Kelli and Nolan in a candid conversation about evolving HR, squandered DEI opportunities, and building lasting relationships in hyper-growth environments.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Didier Elzinga, Culture Amp's CEO, drops bombshell insights about why most leaders get growth wrong, reveals shocking data about manager vs. leader impact, and explains why treating feedback like an all-you-can-eat menu is destroying companies. Didier sits down with Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church for a conversation about company culture, data, and mapping the world of work on two axes—trust versus mission.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

How do you navigate a founding CTO's transition when they're struggling to scale? Kelli and Nolan share hard-won wisdom on avoiding common pitfalls: don't rush to judgment, build trust first, and respect the deep bonds between founders. Instead of plotting replacements, focus on supporting growth - and remember that even the best transitions happen through relationships, not force.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Melanie Naranjo, Chief People Officer at Ethena, joins Kelli and Nolan to tackle the surge in employee litigation facing modern companies. In an era where employees are increasingly using legal terms like 'discrimination' and 'retaliation,' how can companies balance protecting themselves from frivolous lawsuits while ensuring legitimate grievances are properly addressed?Explore how social media, changing workplace expectations, and generational shifts are fueling this trend, while offering practical insights on navigating these challenges. The conversation balances protecting employee rights with managing unfounded claims, providing valuable perspectives for HR professionals and business leaders trying to build fair, transparent workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Today Kelli and Nolan tackle a real-world HR career challenge: a candidate who received feedback that while they could handle their current role, the hiring manager was unsure about their ability to scale with company growth.Drawing from their extensive backgrounds in recruiting and HR leadership, they help listeners navigate everything from interview feedback to career growth, offering insider perspectives that challenge traditional HR thinking and empower professionals to take control of their career narrative.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

How do you lead product when your CEO is the product visionary? Pendo's Chief Product Officer Trisha Price reveals the delicate dance of setting boundaries with founder-CEOs, the evolution of HR from gatekeeper to strategic partner, and why she uses AI to write letters to her 102-year-old grandmother. A candid conversation about power, trust, and the changing face of tech leadership.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

On Election Day 2024, Nolan and Kelli examine how to navigate an increasingly polarized workplace during a contentious election. They discuss the decline of 'presidential' discourse, the impact of social media on political rhetoric, and practical strategies for business leaders managing divided teams. Their candid conversation offers insights on maintaining professionalism and unity when half the country faces inevitable disappointment.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—

Former Dashlane HR leader Ciara Lakhani shares her unfiltered journey from New York to Paris tech, debunking myths about French business culture while revealing the art of cross-cultural leadership. From smoke breaks with works councils to earning trust through authenticity, Ciara offers practical wisdom on navigating international business dynamics and building bridges between American and French work cultures. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.co For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/ HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.

In this segment of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan discuss "empty suit executives" – a term coined by product leader Tyler Hogge, highlighting executives who manage from above but scoff at doing the work themselves.Is the era of the status-seeking executive dead? Explore how AI, increased competition, and evolving workplace culture are killing the 'empty suit' leader. From Silicon Valley's trenches to corporate boardrooms, discover why authenticity is replacing authority, and why rolling up your sleeves might be the new key to power in modern business.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsor:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK/S:The Empty Suit Executive by Tyler Hoggehttps://tylerhogge.com/2024/10/16/the-empty-suit-executive/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro (00:29) The Empty Suit Executive (03:43) Shift in Management Styles and the Rise of Doers (05:34) Clash Between Founders and "Empty Suit" Executives (06:17) The Changing Dynamics of Large Tech Companies (07:17) Venture-Backed Companies as a Bellwether (09:00) Sponsor: MetaView (10:06) Recognizing Our Own "Empty Suit" Tendencies (11:30) Building a Brand and Leading by Example (12:40) New Era of Leadership (13:30) Adaptability in a Competitive Landscape (14:04) The Rise of AI (14:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com