Real Job Talk

We're talking from experience about red flags, especially in the job search process, where your gut fits into decision making and how to listen for those flags. Kat tells her story from 20 years ago about her first HR Leadership role where she joined a company working for a husband and wife team. The offer was lower than her comfort zone with a bonus to get her there. She then needed to clock in, which is unknown in leadership roles. When Kat got home from her first week on the job, she said to her husband, “One week down, 51 to go”, but in reality, she left after 6 months to preserve her mental health and well-being. This decision led to Kat starting her own business which has been thriving for 21 years. Liz's story is more recent. A recruiter sent an AI-written no-personality job description, and then there was a fast interview process which led to a funky feeling. The offer came with terrible benefits - a big red flag that shows you don't care about people. The red flags were all true, and while she tried to focus on the positive, it ended up being untenable and her gut got a lot less twisty once she left. One big flag to point out is this: would you take the job if you had a job? If the answer is no, why? If it's because things don't feel right, listen to that! Official advice #1: The Job Description: Is it written by AI? Boring? Trying to help draw you in? Include company values? Do you know what the company does, what the job is, is there a career page selling you on the company? Official advice #2: The recruiting process. What's it like? Do you feel they know you at all? Is there a decision process or does it go on forever? Have you met your boss, a few colleagues? It's a red flag if you don't feel like they know what they want and what they're looking for. Official advice #3: Look at Glassdoor, PunchBowl, Reddit, and other sites that talk about the experience working at the company. Look for threads in the reviews- not just the 1 from an angry employee. Look at the recent feedback on what it's like there. The score is important, but know that companies try to manipulate their score….pay attention if there are lots of positive reviews with zero substance. Official advice #4: Is the team diverse? Look on Linkedin and see who works there. Is everyone white and under 30 in suits and ties? Do they indicate that they want diverse teams and points of view? Official advice #5: Does the benefits package indicate that they care about their people? What's covered? How much are they contributing? We've never seen a great place to work with terrible benefits. Official advice #6: Do they encourage your questions? Answer directly? Belittle you for asking questions? RED FLAG. If you ever feel like your requests are being blown off, word salad or more, it's a huge indicator of what the company is like to work at. Official advice #7: Your gut is saying no. If you're not excited about signing the offer, it's for a good reason. It's hard to not listen to your brain and your bank account, but let your gut have a say in the decision. If you do go against your gut, we've got some clear advice for you. Don't announce it on Linkedin right away. Don't stop interviewing >> if your brain and your bank account win out and you try something new, it's ok to keep interviewing if you really don't think it's a fit. Be artfully honest when people ask you how things are going- lead with the positive, but tell people you're still open to new opportunities. If it's not a big fit, look for the good people you haven't met, the story, the learnings. There are good things that come out of good stints.

We have a letter! One of our listeners wrote to us with a question. They are stuck with what to do with their golden hancuffs. Their current employer was acquired by a larger company. The company wants them to stay, and has given them a year-long series of bonuses and severance if they stay long enough. But they'd also like to look around to see if there are other opportunities. They don't know what to do about their bonus package in the job search: can they disclose it? Can they use it as leverage it as part of a job negotiation? It's a great question, and while we counseled them separately, we share our advice with each of you. What ARE golden handcuffs? They're a way that a company incentivizes you to stay with them vs leave after a major change. For example, our listener's company was acquired and they have golden handcuffs that pay them over the next 6 months to stay with the company vs leave for another job. For our listener, they get bonuses every 3 months and then another payment if you stay through the pre-determined transition period. Because our listener is early career, we advised them to stay and get experience with acquisitions and use the bonus package to accumulate a nest egg (assuming they can tolerate it). And we also advised them to not start looking for a new job right away, and instead to take time to make a must-have list, and then start searching 3 months before their last day. Can our listener use their package to get more money? If YOU are applying for jobs, you can't use a retention program as leverage, but once someone is interested, or if you are being recruited, you may be able to use it. You can say “I'd love to be considered, but I have this retention package and am planning on staying through the end. Can you help keep me whole?” They likely won't pay it all out, but maybe it will get you a sign-on bonus. Deciding what's right to do? Look at your must-have list, look at what you want to learn, and as opportunities come your way, make lists of pros and cons guided by your must-have list to balance learning, opportunity, stability, and happiness. Another interesting opportunity may come from the new company, so doing your best post-acquisition and learning about the new company, new ways to do things, and meeting a new network of people is a huge opportunity. Post-acquisition retention is an incredible learning opportunity. You have the opportunity to see how a new company does things and also see new groups and meet new people. Use the opportunity to learn and grow. If you do get approached for a new job, tell them right away that you're planning on staying through the period of your retention bonus and let them know what it looks like to see if they can help move you earlier. Stress that you're most interested in learning, growth, and opportunity, and you're willing to give up money for the right opportunity. If you know you're talking with a recruiter, write notes and make sure you're ready for a clear and open conversation. Be confident in who you are, what you're looking for, and what's important to you.

Today we're talking about all things Company-Paid. We're here to help you understand and navigate the world of expenses. Here are the Real Job Talk guidelines for using your company credit card. Guideline 1: Look at your company handbook/rulebook and familiarize yourself with the company's policies around expenses. There may be limits on hotels, guidelines around flights, and per diems for meals and drinks. If you see friends during time in a new city, that needs to be on your dime - just like when you see friends at home. Your per diem is to cover you because you're there for work, not for your cocktails with friends. Guideline 2: If it isn't told to you, ASK! Can you buy yourself a mouse, monitor, or new desk? Ask the recruiter or hiring manager what will be covered by the company. Guideline 3: Convenience is key. You are traveling for WORK, so any bookings you do (hotel, office etc) need to be close to the work you are doing, not to the nearby city you've always wanted to visit. If you travel to a city and you want to go sightseeing and learn about it, that's totally fine, but the time you spend as a tourist is on you -- because the company doesn't need you doing it and it's not part of your job. That said, you can extend your trip with a later flight after your personal travel (the company owes you a round trip ticket, the dates are less important), but the hotels and food during your tourism are on you. Guideline 4: Treat the company's money like your own. Want an upgrade for extra leg room, but that's not in company policy? That's on your dime. Think about saving up your per diem to buy your family dinner on your way home from the airport? The company doesn't owe your family dinner -- and they could fire you or at least lose trust in you if they find out. Bottom line: it's not smart to abuse expenses. You could get fired. Don't be fired for something so avoidable. Guideline 5: If it's not for work, it's not expensable. If you're not sure, ASK. If you choose to work at a coffee shop instead of home one day, it's not expensable. If you're having lunch with friends and they say “How's work?”, that's not expensable. If you take your team out, it probably IS expensable. And when you can expense something, don't bust the budget or order the most expensive thing you can. Don't take advantage. Guideline 6: Use the systems you're told to use. Follow Finance's guidelines. Keep receipts. Stay on top of it so that your expenses are up to date. If you pay attention to these guidelines - and to the guidelines of your company - you won't get into trouble with expenses at work.

Welcome back to Real Job Talk, Kat Kibben! Kat (pronouns they/them) is the founder of Three Ears Media, a speaker, advocate, and leader in the HR space around inclusivity and job descriptions. We're really pleased to have Kat join us for a second time on the podcast. (Check out their first appearance, Episode 38: Write a Resume that Gets Past the Screeners with Katrina Kibben (https://realjobtalk.com/38-write-a-resume-that-gets-past-the-screeners-katrina-kibben)) Every week, Kat writes a letter with their thoughts from that week. They started writing their letters as a marketing exercise, but found the letters got more personal and they eventually evolved to being about... life. Those letters are now a collection of stories titled This Was All An Accident focusing on their year of living in a van and traveling around the United States. According to Kat, the first step of accepting yourself is learning what it feels like to be happy. Kat started writing a list of what they were doing when they felt happy and then read the list every day and whenever they were feeling low. We unpack the word “should” and redefining boundaries in a way that works for us. Can a CEO live in a van and work 4 days a week? How did Kat redefine their norms to adjust to van life? Scheduling in van life has to be flexible, and not only did Kat have to adjust their idea of what work looked like, but their team had to adjust and refine their set up. Kat inspired Kat and John to take their own van trip. We discuss the planning of a van trip and how it's a metaphor for life in that you can plan and plan, but you often run into and need things you don't plan for. Both Kats learned that lesson in their van trips. Our lessons? Bring duct tape and an ax! We dive into vulnerability. Kat felt most vulnerable when they learned that their estranged father was reading their book. They wrote it for teenagers and people who could use the lessons they've learned in their life. What they found was that it felt most vulnerable when they knew people who they know in their personal life were reading it. They're more used to people they work with knowing more about them from their work. Kat talks in their letters about hard things, but has very clear boundaries. Their rule is to not write about anything they aren't certain about in their life. We talk more about boundaries and how they determine what to share and how to handle people who ask questions they aren't ready to answer. Lastly we talked about staying realistically positive without being toxic. Kat's answer is to focus on now vs the huge picture so that life isn't overwhelming. One of Kat's motivations is around helping kids, specifically queer and trans kids, feel comfortable and safe in their bodies. They mentor adults about being queer in the workplace and tell us some stories about how they help people live authentically. Get Kat's book, This Was All An Accident: Letters and Life Lessons (https://www.amazon.com/This-Was-All-Accident-Letters/dp/B0CGKR449L) on Amazon Kat's blog and personal site: katrinakibben.com (https://katrinakibben.com) Linkedin: katrinakibben (https://www.linkedin.com/in/katrinakibben/) Twitter/X: @KatrinaKibben (https://twitter.com/KatrinaKibben) Facebook: katrina.kibben (https://www.facebook.com/katrina.kibben) Instagram: @katrinakibben (https://www.instagram.com/katrinakibben/)

Welcome to Real Job Talk Robert Gilbreath! Robert talks to us about his career journey as a solopreneur, entrepreneur, and an employee and how he treats each role like he's the owner of the company. Robert Gilbreath is an experienced solopreneur and entrepreneur, and joins the show to share his insights on work mindset, ownership of roles, networking, and evaluating side gigs. He has a diverse background that spans SaaS, ecommerce, partnerships, marketplaces, and product, with experience on both sides of the table across all those areas. Tune in as he delves into the importance of networking, being positive, and helping others. Robert shares his approach to evaluating new opportunities and emphasises finding purpose in what he does. We also touc “Act as if….” every company you work at is your own. Is a mantra (one of many) Robert Gilbreath brings into each role he has. It helps to guide him in making each organization better in some way from before he was there. Marketing is an interesting discipline because people throughout the company will have opinions on the work you are doing. The best marketers can switch industries- the academic side and the creative side and it's about understanding your audience and how to connect with them. Success is often tied to taking ownership - of your role, your career, and your journey. That means saying “yes” in early career, trying new things, and owning both success and learning. We talked with Robert about side gigs and his approach to networking as a way to make sure he always has something interesting going on. Robert's goal is to know everyone in Austin doing ecommerce so that he is always touching what's happening in his space. Connect with Robert Gibreath Twitter/X: @robertgatx (https://twitter.com/robertgatx) Website: robertgilbreath.com (https://www.robertgilbreath.com/) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertgilbreath/

Welcome to Kelli Thompson! Kelli is a speaker, coach, author, and HR executive who left the corporate world to pursue her passion for helping women advance their careers. She is driven to help more women make it to the board room, advance their careers, and bring their best, most authentic selves to the office. Today we're going to be focusing on talking with Kelli about the very important topic of salary negotiation. Kelli's career started in banking, where in her journey in HR and leadership development she noticed that most of leadership were men. She found joy as an HR executive in helping people figure out paths to develop their careers. She then worked for a tech company where once again she found joy in helping with career development. She liked that so much so that she worked for a consultant who specialized in career development and broke out on her own to do one-on-one leadership coaching -- which also included less travel. We asked Kelli her thoughts on Lean In and how she feels about women's journey into the boardroom. Kelli agreed with us that the “do it all” idea can burn women out -- especially since women tend to take on more unpaid and unpromotable administrative work at work and take on more at home. We all agreed that being an executive of any gender requires a ton of support at home and in life so that you can dump what's not necessary, doesn't give joy, and you need to delegate and create boundaries. In order to grow in the executive ranks, Kelli asks us how can we show up and do what we want to do without feeling resentful. We ask Kelli how she coaches a burned out person who wants to get ahead. She said they usually are ahead -- but that it's not sustainable. She first asks where in their life they feel most resentful. They eliminate just that and focus on what needs to be addressed so they can focus. We ask about when salary should be discussed in the job search -- up front as early as possible. And salary transparency helps! The issue with salary transparency in the remote first world is that the range is inclusive of all areas, which means that the range can include the salary in Omaha and NYC, which won't be the same. What that does is encourage transparency in the conversation, but also, Kelli says to look up jobs listed locally to know what your range is. And if the range is less than you want, there's no harm in having an initial conversation and seeing if there is any flexibility. That said, if the job is being upleveled, you want to know where that “lower level” work will go -- it may still sit with you. To get the most out of salary negotiation, you want to talk about what you bring to the company (not your personal needs), the skills you bring, and what the company can get from your skills (increase revenue, lower expense, reduce risk, lead change) in order to demonstrate what you're asking for. And if the range is more than you were expecting, keep that poker face! Just say, “sounds good” and remember, that initial number is still negotiable. Get what you're worth! What's negotiable in a job offer? Probably not the benefits plan, but sometimes you can adjust the boundaries of hybrid/remote situations and often learning and development opportunities. By understanding the benefits packages you'll know what you can/can't negotiate. Usually that first offer isn't the ceiling. You can try for more. The worst thing they can say is no. Good people get hired, promoted, and raises even in a bad economy. Good people also get let go. Show your value and make sure your skills are what your company and other companies need. The best negotiators, even in a down economy, acknowledge the environment and showed what they can bring. The best negotiators are kind, direct, and show their value. Also, don't forget that we learn a lot about you during the negotiation process, but also you learn a lot about the company by how they behave during the offer process. What does confidence look like in salary negotiations? It looks like trusting yourself.

Today we're talking about giving feedback at work. In talking with managers at work, Liz encouraged people to ask their people how they wanted to get feedback and how to deliver news positive and negative. Feedback, when given in a timely and kind manner, can be a gift. But often we forget key steps like finding out how someone likes to receive feedback or framing it in a way that makes sure your point is conveyed. Feedback tip #1 is to make it as timely as possible. When you finish something, talk about what went well and what could do better. When you're in a team reflect as a team and as a manager give feedback fairly and in a timely manner so the person can learn in the moment. With performance reviews, if a manager doesn't ask how you'd like to receive your review, for you to ask to see it up front (if that's your preference). Ask for what you want/need in order to have the feedback discussion be as helpful as possible. Most managers will say yes, but if they don't, you can say that you may not be as responsive or talkative because you need time to digest feedback to have the most impactful conversation. How do you respond to a review that is a surprise? Ask for some time to digest and ask for a follow up meeting. Then take a minute to reflect and write down your responses. You can write an emotional response as long as you throw it away and write a fact-based response. You don't want to come across as emotional or reactive. Sometimes, if you believe a review is wrong or unfair, you need to consider the source and how much you respect their opinion on your performance. You thank them, respect their opinion, but then share your viewpoint and facts that back it up. Make your point with facts and evidence- be factual but not accusatory. The goal is to get closer aligned and share perception and meet in the middle. What if your manager refuses to talk about your review? The answer is “ok, I was hoping we could talk about it.” and then you need to make a career decision….When you realize there won't be a conversation, you get out of the conversation as quickly and calmly as possible. You can give the rebuttal to your HR person to make sure your viewpoint is filed. What about less formal feedback? We talk about a friend whose boss unknowingly gave them really insulting feedback in front of peers. Our friend was LIVID and wanted to know what to do. We advised them to use the “When EVENT A happened I thought B and felt C” and to talk it though in the next 1:1. To then say that you know that's not what they meant to do, and ask for them to give constructive feedback privately. Tell people how you want to communicate in real time. If you like Slack, say so. Same w email. Saying something like “I'm most organized in email, so please communicate with me there” doesn't put them on guard but helps them know how to work with you. Ask people their preferences and honor them and that will help you build relationships. Your goal is to build real, authentic, kind working relationships and our communication style is on us to communicate.

We talk about a topic that has come up extensively over the last few months -- severance packages. What are they? What aren't they? Why do they exist? What do you do when you get them? Our goal is to answer all of the questions we get around them to help you learn and be prepared if you're faced with them. Question 1: What is a severance package and what is the point of them especially if I'm an at will employee? "At Will" means that you don't belong to the company. Why do companies give severance? To absolve blame and because it's the right thing to do to get the person to their next job since looking may be unexpected. It is an agreement to keep quiet about fault, i.e., it's money to say that this was a no-fault situation. It can have a combination of compensation and benefits, talks about your last day, and what needs to be done to earn it (like return your stuff or finish a project). Note that there is a timeline around signing it (45 days for over 40 if more than 1 person, different rules if WARN is enacted). Take your time to understand your package. Please know that people delivering the news are having a horrible day too. Question 2: Can I negotiate a severance package? Not really, unless you have very clear evidence that the company has done something wrong by you. It is usually determined by a formula. One exception is if you have a pending legal action or a documented legal case, or if you are an executive who has negotiated a separation ahead of time. Potentially yes, for sales commissions that close by a certain date. Don't compare yours with the ones from other companies -- they're all different and have different terms of their packages. Question 3: What can I expect once I hear I'm part of a RIF (Reduction in Force)? What the package is -- what it includes and what it doesn't. Get a lot of paperwork (15-50 pages+) with all of the terms of the agreements. Last day and when and how to return your stuff. Expectations around what it takes to get severance and when you have to sign (don't wait until the last day- it's just annoying). COBRA information, which helps you stay on your benefit plan for 18 months after you leave the company. Question 4: Should I sue/get a lawyer? Not unless you have documentation that proves you've been harassed, etc. Have someone to review the paperwork. Know that a lawyer put your package together so it's probably pretty sound. Question 5: Thoughts on posting my RIF on Linkedin/social media? You do you Being supportive to those affected is lovely, but you're not RIFed, send direct messages and be supportive of people, but ndon't do a “I'm sad my colleagues are gone” posts. Share their profile, write a recommendation, and make the help about them, not you. Green circle on LinkedIn -- yes or no? YES! It makes you more searchable! Say what you want and leave your feelings to your inner circle. On Linkedin and social be positive and looking towards the future. Personal reach outs are better than big dramatic posts When you share desperation, people feel badly and helpless. Keeping it professional in professional groups and on Linkedin will help people know if and how they can help find the next job, but saying that if you don't get a job soon you won't be able to pay your mortgage makes people feel guilty and doesn't work in your favor in professional circles. To wrap it up, being a part of a RIF is hard, scary, and heavy on the heart. To be prepared, listen to our Looking for a Job Learning Track episodes found on the resources page of our website (https://realjobtalk.com/resources). We recommend always having a current resume and Linkedin, and keeping your skills up-to-date in case you find yourself in an unexpected job search.

Liz and Kat Zoom in with Mpume Ncube-Daka all the way from South Africa to talk about change conversations. Mpume works with people to drive the best decisions in their growth and development. She is passionate about personal and professional development and learning through change. Mpume thought she'd be a doctor when she grew up, but realized she needed to change direction after a failed math class. She then became an accountant and has built a career on change. After laughing at humanities students in college, Mpume finds herself a student of people and passionate about psychology and human development. With careers in marketing, business strategy, accounting, and finance, she can see all sides of business problems and be able to connect with her clients. We ask Mpume about navigating workplace relationships - what advice does she give for navigating the modern workplace? She reminds us to take time to relate to people as human. Take out the noise and get to know someone as a human. Navigating a workplace culture is about navigating that company's particular cultural nuances first. Once you understand that, you bring your authentic self into the space. First you want to observe how feedback is given and received- preferably at the interview- and see if it's a place you want to work. We ask about navigating a full career change vs a just job change. The #1 thing is self-awareness. If you know yourself, you know what excites you, what you don't want, and you want to do things that excite you and make you money. What skills and strengths do you have that are marketable? You may love to color, but it may not pay the mortgage. You don't want to get all of the meaning of your life from work. We work to have the life that we want- all happiness can't come from the workforce. Communicating effectively is a key skill to thrive in today's work world. Mpume has ABCs of work communication. For her, #1 is interpersonal communication, which includes both verbal and non-verbal communication. We all want to be heard, no matter if someone agrees or not. If we feel heard and listened to we can work together. Be good at listening and giving the time to hear someone's opinions. And it's important to clarify that you heard the thing they were actually saying. They key to effective listening? Be present. Not checking email. Not checking Slack. Not prepping dinner. Clarify what they are saying to make sure you understand. We ask how do we stay present in today's crazy world? Don't make it about you. When it's about understanding what the other person is saying, you can focus on their message. It comes to company culture- if everyone expects instant communication and people are Slacking during meetings, you're not encouraging listening and being present. We ask for advice on behalf of our listeners who feel stuck in their career. Mpume wants you to look at what “stuck” looks like for you. Why do you feel stuck? Get to the bottom of why you're feeling that way before you start to solve the problem. If you're stuck, how do you getting out of the hole? Create goals to challenge yourself to get out of that space. Does being stuck feel different for women? Yes! Sometimes we need to make choices that work for us and what we want in our lives. That said, many women want to be super women and not drop anything, and we come at our situation from a guilt perspective. When we realize what we need and want and stop feeling guilty about what we aren't doing, we find our power and our gratitude.

Today we're talking about job abandonment -- something we've each seen a handful of times in our corporate careers. (Kat saw it more with people working in retail.) We want you to know what job abandonment is, how to avoid it, and what the ripple effect can be when someone abandons their job. What is job abandonment? Job abandonment is when you just disappear from work and nobody knows where you are for a certain period of time, even just a few days. It often leads to you losing your job. When someone doesn't show up without any notice, management and HR starts asking around. Then they call, email, text, Slack, and try to get in touch with someone any way they can. HR gets involved when they resort to using personal and emergency contact info to get in touch. It's a tough balance in trying to find the person and see that they are ok -- but you don't want to set off too many alarm bells, just in case the whole thing was caused by a dead phone battery and an alarm not going off. At a point when the job abandonment is suspected, the authorities may be called to do a wellness check, hospitals may be called to see if someone's there, and if someone knows the person's kid's school, the school may be called to see if the family is ok. Before letting someone go for job abandonment, management and HR will try to find them and make sure they are ok. Kat knew someone who just couldn't deal with life and disconnected with their work. After trying to find them, the president of the company showed up at their house. Job abandonments are very stressful for managers and HR people, even when the person turns up OK.The worry that happens when someone disappears is very real, and companies want to avoid invoking their job abandonment policy. As the person who is managing your career, you do not want to be source of that stress and you want to be seen as responsible and reliable. If your company or manager doesn't know that they can rely on you, your career in that role will be short-lived. And when you go to find your next job, it may be difficult to explain what happened if you simply burned your bridges and left. To avoid this, we have some tips to avoid noncommunication and miscomunication with your workplace when you really just can't come in. Someone you know will be aware if something is happening to you. Make sure they also have your manager's contact info. You don't have to tell work everything about your personal life, just what you need to communicate what to expect. For example, " need to go on medical leave" or "I need to take a week of personal leave." That's enough. Crazy concept: your company doesn't pay you to not show up. BUT this has happened to other people before you, and because of that, the company likely has policies in place to support you if you can't work. And your country may also have labor laws that cover this as well. You need to communicate enough to make sure that your job is protected. Don't be the person who causes angst for others, and don't have your decisions cause angst and disruption for your team or for coworkers depending on you. If you need time off, ask for it and take it. When people disappear from their job, projects get derailed, trust gets broken, the rumor mill goes nuts, and colleagues get overloaded. Don't be the person who made this happen. Communicate, don't just ghost.

Welcome to Real Job Talk, Angela Loeb! We refer our clients who need their resumes done to Angela because she literally wrote the book(s) on resumes and job searching. Angela started out helping people to get into beauty school- she interviewed people and helped them get into classes. Angela got into recruiting by answering an online ad (a rarity!) and worked at an agency for many years until the 2009 recession. She wrote a book, conducted seminars, and hosted a radio show on “blog talk radio” on the job search process. We asked Angela about going out on her own vs working for agencies. Angela had a mentor who encouraged her to work from home and branch out beyond their agency. She started her business as a side gig (we highly recommend doing this first!) working with individuals until she realized that she could support herself with her own business. Angela helps people to brand themselves, write their resumes, and be able to tell their stories. You are marketing you, and you need to figure out your value proposition/branding statement. As a job seeker, you have to position yourself like a product. So how do you show resume readers what you can do for them? You think about what you mainly want _to do, and then highlight it with the rest of _what you can do sprinkled around the side. You want resume readers to see you how you want to be featured. If you start with your resume, it's just an inventory of skills. If you lead with what you WANT to do, you tailor your resume to the job you want. If you assume everyone's going to want to hire you, you're not thinking about your target audience. Resume readers want skills, not adjectives. A lot of people come to coaches and resume writers to help them get clarity about how they can have impact. We asked Angela about the use of social media and how to be consistent in branding across different media so that your overall picture between your resume and social media is clear. Angela also says not to copy your job description on a resume, but agrees that you need to show that your experience matches the experience they are looking for. And, while many job descriptions talk about intangibles like “team player,” to say that you're a team player is white noise on your resume. You need to SHOW that you're a team player, results driven or detail oriented in your accomplishments vs by listing those qualities. Front end work to get your strengths and goals clear is critical in a successful job search. Is the Great Resignation over? What's the job market like today? Angela points out job cycles, and recommends that hard times cause companies to need different skills. We may end up in a limited hiring bubble, but right now companies are still screaming for talent. You may want to move to a role that feels stable for you. It comes down to knowing what you do that creates value and impact and can highlight it, you're going to be more successful in your job search because you can pivot, modify, and adapt. If you have a skills gap, you need to fill it. Show companies you want to work for that you understand their business. You can get those gaps filled by volunteering, and also can expand your network that way too! Being a connector and getting to know other people can absolutely help you get your next job. Commenting on what you're interested in and posting about it helps you become a thought leader in that space. Lastly, we asked Angela about video interviews and resumes. We're seeing employers using more asynchronous video interviews. It's convenient for the hiring managers and companies. Videos allow you to show people who you are, but it's important to stand out and have an edge. Remember, you can't have a video resume be too long or you'll lose your audience. On video, you need to be “on”, engaging, and interesting. Watch examples of video resumes on sites like Bitable and use templates to get your message out there. Angela on Twitter: @angelarloeb (https://twitter.com/angelarloeb)

In this episode we advise on what to do when your company gets acquired. Most of us don't know if our company is going to change structure, ownership, or leadership, so when something big is announced it can be a bit shocking and can cause us to ask, “What happens to me?” What do you do that day? Acknowledge your feelings - you're going to get flooded with emotion. It's scary. The number 1 thing you can do is take care of yourself. Continue to breathe. Take a walk. Understand that the feelings of uncertainty are normal and expected, but don't pretend they aren't there. That said, if you're a manager or a leader, you need to take a deep breath and lead your people. You can tell them how you feel, but also exude confidence. Don't make promises you can't keep. Be as honest and forthright as you can. Admit what you don't know. And save your meltdown for time away from your team. As an individual contributor, attend all meetings the company has for you, but make sure you keep getting your job done. Remember that being adaptable is the #1 skill that help people have successful careers. Being reliable is always helpful in staying a necessary resource. As an individual contributor you can control your adaptability, your attitude, your willingness to help, and your performance. Being the person who asks how you can help with the transition will make you invaluable. After day 1, learn about any upsides or golden handcuffs that come along with the deal. Are there bonuses for staying? Does anything happen to your pay? Your benefits? Your equity? Who at the new company does the same thing as you? Knowing your situation helps you assess where you can fit in the new org. That said, it's a great time to brush up your resume and start exploring opportunities. Look for ways to help ease the transition in time of change. Post-acquisition layoffs happen. Be ready. Assess the culture of the new place. How did they announce it? What was the welcome like? How happy do the new people seem? Judge the new place against your must-have list. Be aware. Ask questions. Be a calm force looking at things objectively to best assess the situation. Look at how you're welcomed- you learn a lot about a company when you see how they handle an acquisition. Is it employee first? Are you left in the dark? Are they focused on assuaging your fears? How is your manager handling it? Are there skill gaps between your old and new responsibilities? Try and fill them whenever possible if you want to stay and make yourself a stronger candidate for an internal or external search. Do whatever you need to do to be a great candidate for any job search. Figure out what this means to you, talk to your Board of Advisors for advice, and give it a chance to see if it can be a good change.

Top secret! We're talking about NDAs, non-disclosure agreements. What's an NDA? It's an agreement between you and the company saying that you won't share information about the company outside of the company. These are shared whether you're an employee or a contractor. Sometimes you sign an NDA when you're interviewing, which means that whatever you learn during the process you can not take back to your current employer. If you're working on a secret project at work, your NDA says that you don't tell anyone about what you're working on. At least not the details of it. So, what do you do when someone asks what you're working on?? Kat advises you make a joke like, “I'd tell you, but then I'd have to..”. You can tell people that you can't wait until it becomes public and you can talk more openly about it. You can also say to people, “There's a lot going on at work, and maybe if you Google it you can figure it out.” Internal Use Only means do not forward, and if you don't listen, you could find yourself in legal hot water. Sometimes, when talking about things that are top secret, we have to realize that not everyone has the same amount of knowledge, so fishing to see who knows what could get you into hot water. If you know about something that isn't public knowledge, you don't want to be asking about it in case you make people curious and they find out things they should not know about. On your first day, make sure to ask for a copy of everything you sign and make sure you take the time to read it. Always know what you're signing and make sure you can honor it. When you leave a company, it's ok to ask for your signed documents. You will want to review them for non-solicitation language (and time limits -- for example, you may not be able to refer someone from that company for 12 months without violating your agreement) before you refer someone from there. Be informed to make sure you honor everything you've signed. If something is Googleable, it's in the public domain, but if it's not, it's probably under NDA and you don't want to be the leak -- so keep it to yourself!

Today we're talking about background checks. Background checks are a standard piece of company's hiring processes. The company takes the resume and verifies education, employment, and criminal records. Sometimes they also do things like drug tests. Both of us have had to rescind offers or eliminate employment based on background investigations, and each of those situations could have been avoided. The net net: be honest. It establishes trust. Background checks include references. A bad reference check can cause doubt and we've seen offers get rescinded because of them. So be aware and make sure all of your references will speak positively about you! Different industries (especially regulated industries like healthcare, financial services, and government) have different requirements including FBI checks and credit checks. Do your research to know what to expect. For most companies, they ask if you have any felonies, arrests, or other criminal records. TELL THE TRUTH. Yes, that arrest for drunk and disorderly on Spring Break ‘97 WILL show up on the report. If you're honest, you should be ok. We've only seen issues when there are discrepencies between the application or resume and the check. Make sure you're always as honest as possible! For education checks, if you claim to have a diploma, make sure that the school will confirm that you have the diploma. Taking credits does not equal a degree. Finishing coursework but not taking exams does not equal a degree. Having a financial hold means that there is a hold on your degree and you can not claim it. We have seen when someone doesn't know that there is a financial hold (and they even walked), and we've seen companies go both ways when this happens -- they might rescind the offer, or they might let it go and follow-through with the hire. Still, if you aren't sure, check with the school before claiming the degree. We encourage you to keep good records of the dates of your jobs. If you don't know for sure, say “approx”. Just disclose whatever you can. What about changing your title on your resume to make it more searchable? That's ok -- your resume and Linkedin are marketing tools. BUT, you want to make sure any application states your true title, no matter how goofy it is. There's a difference between changing the words on your title and lying about your title. We're begging you to tell the truth.

Welcome to Dr. Carrie Root, who joins us to share her book The Other Soft Skill that teaches about intergenerational communication and connection. Carrie has had a number of career twists and turns, breaking barriers as an IT consultant with the Navy and now as an educational consultant. Carrie tells us that she ignored the gender differences she found in her early career by pretending there wasn't one. With her work consulting with the Navy on pause, she did some consulting with NASA and thought about everything she'd learned and saw a lack in teamwork from earlier in her career. Carrie learned about a local Rotary Club program that gave free tuition to kids who kept their grades up and were responsible enough to graduate, and did some research to see that many of them weren't able to complete their advanced degree programs. She saw the opportunities to get kids from local schools internships, but was hearing that they were too rough. Carrie also found that when kids come out of school they were used to homogeneous groups, and in the workplace she was seeing communication and style breakdowns. She was able to set up partners, buddies, and mentors in order to build relationships across groups and help them learn to understand each other and their style. She realized that by getting to know others, team members were able to see each other as people vs stereotypical generational people. We discussed how leaders can set norms for how a team communicates and start the conversation about how to communicate across the team. Carrie also told us about how managers help with adaptability around new technologies and norms. Getting people teaching each other is a key to intergenerational team success. Carrie reminds us all to learn from each other and each other's perspectives. We have so many opportunities to take time, develop relationships, and listen to each other. Listening is the most under-rated skill in the workplace. If we listened more instead of thinking about what we're going to say next, we could all connect and serve each other better. Gen Z tends to want to learn and grow, so when managing them, make sure they are always learning, having new experiences, and can learn from each other. You also want to make sure they have the best software and equipment to be as efficient as possible. She makes sure that for Gen Zs they have no penalty for asking questions or trying new things. “If you learn from something that didn't go well, that doesn't mean it was a bad thing.” We talk about learning, growth, and growth mindset and wanting to learn and move forward. We ask Carrie where to find mentors. She says that you need to think about what you bring as a mentee and what your responsibilities are as someone being mentored. You need to set expectations, commit time, and work towards your goals. Look for mentors outside of your organization and to help with certain goals. What happens if someone is afraid to ask someone to mentor them? Carrie feels that if you're afraid to ask, maybe you're not ready to be mentored, and if you assume they won't want to, you're putting words in their mouth. She recommends asking in a way that it's ok for them to say no or to say “not now”. That way you know if they say yes they want to do it. Carrie Root & 5G Power Skills on Twitter: @5gpowerskills (https://twitter.com/5gpowerskills) Carrie Root on Linkedin (https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrie-root-phd-ultimate-troubleshooter/) Carrie Root & 5G Power Skills on Instagram:@5gpowerskills (https://www.instagram.com/5gpowerskills/?hl=en)

Welcome to Professional Service Manager and author of the new book Make Me The Boss: Surviving as a Millenial Manager in the Corporate World, Emily Tsitrian! We talked with Emily about being a “newer career” manager, why she wrote her book, and lessons she learned along the way. We asked Emily how she got into professional services (which is a lot of project management, implementation, and customer success), and she told us about how in college she wanted to be in tech, since tech changes the world (for better or worse). She started at an enterprise health solution company, and after 7 years she wanted to join a start-up and ended up at a unicorn where they experienced hypergrowth as the company scaled. Suddenly Emily and her peers were in management. When a friend asked her what books she recommended about how to be a manager, Emily realized the right book for her didn't exist, and she decided to write one. She started, put it aside because of….life…. and picked it back up with the pandemic and finished it! We asked Emily how she discovered her voice as a manager. Her first point was that managers are always learning. At first she was overly invested emotionally, made everything a hill to die on, and built the team around her vs building a team who could replace her. Growth can be uncomfortable and vulnerable, and people in management positions are vulnerable because everything is on display. All of a sudden, people around us see when we look at our phone, look into the meaning of what we say, and overthink a lot of our reactions. Being in management comes with “a lot of crap” according to Emily. We discuss being strong and using the word “no” to protect both ourselves and our teams. Drawing boundaries helps us protect ourselves. We ask about the difference between being a millennial manager vs Gen X or Gen Z. Emily explains how millennials have grown in a hyper-connected world, changing societal norms in positive and negative ways and how it affects management. They also have lower life expectancy, accumulated wealth, and live for experiences and happiness. They've turned the world of professionalism upside down and shown us that we need to be aware if we want to attract millennial talent. They've shown us that if you don't run your business with morals, employees will walk out. Millenials are more likely to want to communicate with a screen. Emily wanted to help people address the whole person. We ask the first piece of advice Emily gives to new managers, and she breaks it into people who are managing their peers vs managing a new group. For the first group, Emily talks about managing at least one person who didn't get the job. She said to make sure that you keep business continuity -- don't let balls drop. Then think about both relationships with team members and relationships with new peer group. She also invites people to talk about what it's like being managed by someone who was their peer. Be ready for the difficult relationships. She advises to step back from close relationships with people on the team; make sure everyone has equal access to you, and focus on being their manager vs their friend. Another tip from Emily is that when you become a manager, don't lose that thing you can coach people on. If you've mastered something as an IC, don't lose it. Again, it helps with coaching and credibility. Your team needs to feel that you're able to represent them at a meeting, so public speaking is a critical skill to have as a manager. How do you get better (other than reading Emily's book)? Give a toast, be a podcast guest, watch some TED talks, ask a question in a meeting... there are a lot of good ways. We ask about evaluating potential new managers if you're making a job change, and Emily has some great tips. 1. Does the company invest in their management teams? Ask how well managers are supported. 2. Insist that you talk with the person who will be your direct manager. 3. Ask that person hard questions (which is happening more and more) about how they manage, give feedback, and think about growth. Millenials get more and more community from work which makes people invest more in their workplace than ever before. We ask about how to retain millennials in this tough hiring environment. Emily is intentional on focusing on the high performers vs the people who are struggling. This goes against relation-driven millennial instincts to nurture, but making sure you can focus on building your best people so that you don't lose them. She also tells companies to invest in their new managers and to start training potential managers and help them go up a half a notch. Good managers are building their next generation. We ask about a manager's biggest challenge for 2022. Emily acknowledges the huge foundational shift in the workplace, and tells people to stay curious, invest in knowledge and be authentic without being married to past ideas. Liz adds the need to be flexible and caring….while staying relevant, curious, and open. We're in a big inflection point -- let's embrace it!

In this episode we're taking a lesson from something that happened to Liz and using it to help people be prepared for networking meetings, especially when networking with executives. Liz posted on Linkedin about how her company is hiring, why it's great to work there, and told people to sign up for time with her if they were interested. Well, her calendar was FILLED….mostly with job seekers looking for pretty significant career changes. When people met with Liz, a lot of them didn't know how to maximize their time with her. We decided to put together a list of ways for people to use the opportunity to network with someone who can influence your career. First, help the person you are talking with prepare. Make sure they have your resume or Linkedin profile and that they know the nature of the conversation. If you're talking with them about a job or even about a specific role or team, let them know beforehand. Assume this person is busy, so help them prepare for the meeting by giving them any relevant information. Don't waste face time giving the high level overview of who you are and what you want from the meeting - get that out of the way over email first. You can go deeper in the meeting if both of you arrive prepared. Next, be prepared yourself. Research them a bit. Research their company, the latest news, what they do. Don't waste time asking questions that can be found easily on the web. You're networking - be prepared to impress by doing the research up front. This will also help you maximize your time together by not wasting time with Captain Obvious questions. Third, if you're getting to know them without a predetermined agenda, have your elevator pitch ready and be ready to say what you want from the meeting. You're taking their time, make sure you get what you want out of it. Be concise and ready to clearly share your background and what you're looking to get from this meeting. Fourth, let them run the meeting and ask the questions. Saying hi and then verbal vomiting without stopping to let them get a word in edgewise is not the way to go here. Since you've prepared them by sending over your reason for being on their calendar and your profile, let them take the reins. They may see something in you and start inquiring for reasons you don't know. Let them. Extra advice around letting a woman leader run the meeting if you are a man, because women have radars out for men who run over them in meetings….don't let that be a point against you. Lastly, be mindful of the time. Most managers and executives have packed days filled with meetings. That means: be on time and don't go over. AND DON'T GHOST! Ghosting -- not showing up for the call without any communication or warning -- really interrupts the day and builds resentment, especially with busy people. If you can't make it, send an email apologizing and reschedule as early as you are aware you can't make it. And be flexible - they might cancel on you. Busy people often have to cancel at the last minute; don't take it personally. Make sure your 15 minutes before the call is free so that you're on time, and watch the clock so that you can close with a minute to spare. If they want more time with you, they'll ask. ;) We hope that these tips are helpful in preparing for your next networking opportunity. You're lucky to get on someone's calendar, make the most of the chance and don't waste it sending someone your Linkedin link. Make a great impression; you never know when your paths will cross again.

Welcome to Kanika Tolver, speaker, CEO/founder, and author of Career Rehab. Kanika is a tech program manager who has build a business around helping people find and get the jobs they really want and will really love. Kanika inspires people around the globe to pursue their dreams, build their personal brands, and she is part of our tribe of people urging people to be the CEOs of their careers. In 2014 Kanika was unhappy in her job as a project manager at a Federal agency, and she decided to check herself into Career Rehab and work on her skills, revamp her resume, and check out what it was like working the private sector. She had experienced toxic management and she was done being in an environment where her ideas weren't heard. To make the big change from government to private sector, Kanika learned what private sector employers are looking for. She revamped her Linkedin profile, learned new skills like Agile/Scrum, and built her resume around skills to show her fit. She made sure she would be found, her skill gaps were filled, and posted her resume -- and the jobs came to her. Kanika's first private sector role was in consulting servicing the public sector. She was recruited by Deloitte to be a Senior Consultant, and started "dating jobs." Kanika told people to date jobs -- get what you need from the job, and get out as soon as you see yourself tapped out. At Deloitte, Kanika learned the power of building a professional network. Kanika quickly built a network internally and externally- not only with other black women, but with all types of professionals so that she could get a well-rounded picture of what success looks like and what she needs for success. It was important to Kanika to get all sorts of perspectives to have a holistic view of success, and in her words, “network like a hustler.” An architect designs a house based on what they need in the house, how many rooms, what features, and how it will fit on the land. Kanika tells people to do the same thing with their careers. What do they see themselves doing and then what skills or experience do they need to get to get there. She builds a personal goals list and a career goals list and then figures out how to make both work together. At the beginning of careers, we think more about money and getting a job vs on a must-have or nice-to-have list, but having clear goals and understanding where you're going and where you want to go in your life and career - that will help you to assess opportunities. Who needs career rehab? Kanika wrote her book for three personas: - cool geeks (people with < 5 years of experience) who are ambitious and energetic but don't know what they don't know - corporate rebels (mid-level or senior professionals) who are ready to be promoted, and are rebels for their own causes - career dropouts who are making a big career change and switching careers. Kanika teaches us that we need to market ourselves and build personal brand. She talks about millennials being the masters of personal brand. She talks about building ourselves and doing things to be able to market. A degree is a foundation, but focus on accomplishments and branding to showcase how you can be an asset to an organization. She encourages people to create content: blogs, podcasts, tweets, etc. We asked about introverts: How do they brand themselves authentically and comfortably? and Kanika advises to build authentic and deeper relationships. If you're shy and scared to go to networking events, bring an extraverted coworker or friend to push you. Stress, anxiety, and depression can get in the way of us finding our path in our career. Finding career clarity through any of those times is really hard, because it's so hard to see ourselves as strong when we're not feeling our best. Kanika tells people to focus on personal goals first, and that will often shed some of the baggage and help create career goals to find personal clarity. After we identify the mental barriers, identify what you enjoy doing and align them to your talents and strengths and build your skill set and learn what you need to move forward. Kanika on Twitter: @kanikatolver (https://twitter.com/kanikatolver) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kanikatolver/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CareerRehab/ and https://www.facebook.com/KanikaRTolver Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kanikatolver/ Email: coachkanika@gmail.com

Today we're talking about bereavement and bereavement leave and what to do when you need to take bereavement. Many companies offer very little bereavement leave. A leae of 3 days for a close loved one is typical, which we think is crazy, as our stance is that most people will not be able to come back after losing a family member after 3 days. AND, if they do come back, they won't be at anywhere near full capacity. We hope that company cultures support people when they are grieving, and we ask our listeners to give people who are grieving a lot of caring and compassion. Our overall advice is to help you to take the time you need and keep your job too. If your leave is at all anticipated, tell your manager and teammates and keep them posted. Cover your work, keep people updated, and prepare coverage like you would for any other time off. Don't take on big new projects when you have a loved one who is critically ill, but try to get your work covered. It's time for some vulnerability so people understand what you are dealing with. When there is an unexpected loss, the best thing you can do is communicate immediately, ask a colleague for help (preferably someone who will have your back), delegate and share your projects or appropriate access to someone who can figure things out. Give a quick update to everyone and let them to figure it out. Keep in touch and update your manager/team about where you are in the process and what you need (e.g., we just had the funeral and I need another leave). There are types of more formal, .longer leave (FMLA or unpaid leave) that can protect your job while you take the time off you need. Work with your HR team to take the right type of leave. Ask about your options and find out what you can do to keep your job. Sometimes unpaid leave is the way to go to protect your job; sometimes taking some time off can save your job so that you're not working while your mind is in a fog. Giving yourself time and space can really help you in the long run. Try not to make huge decisions about work when you're grieving because you won't have the required 'new hire' energy. It's not the time to do a job search. That said, how your team and manager responds to your loss is an indicator of your long term fit at the company. If they treat you well, it's probably a special place. If you have a team member who has experienced a loss, you want to help that person as much as you can. Take on projects, be an ear to listen, and express your condolences however feels comfortable for you. Welcome them back. Honor them and be kind. When you're a manager of a grieving person, how you respond to their situation will truly show your true colors. The most important thing is caring for the person- because if you do, it will come back to you in spades because not only are you affecting them, but their colleagues are watching too.

Today we're welcoming Dr. Carol Parker Walsh, whose tagline we love: she helps high-achieving professional women at midlife courageously design a career, brand & life they love. Carol is a coach, a speaker, best-selling author and business owner. Carol followed her path to go to school, get degrees, and go down a life path -- when she realized she that this path was doing what was important to others vs what was important to her. Carol realized that the thread in her career was teaching and helping others with their careers and inspiring and motivating women, and she's been doing it for 7 years. Carol doesn't see herself as having a lot of career changes; she sees herself as being someone who has evolved from employment attorney to HR person to organizational management trainer and consultant and then taught and was an Associate Dean in leadership. All of her jobs were around helping people and companies be better at what they do. We ask Carol about languishing and feeling like there is more out there for us. She had an experience in a car accident, which told her she had to turn and do something different with her gift of life. When we languish, we're afraid of making a wrong decision, so we stay where we are. We are also afraid to try because of the possibility of things not working out. We also buy into the sunk cost fallacy around the time we've already spent and we don't want to lose that investment. Choosing a new path could open new doors and empowers us to see “what if” vs wondering. Regrets come from the things we don't do and the risks we don't take. Big question: how do we figure out what's next and plan how to get there? Find gratitude for where you are and what you have. Look how far you've come and appreciate it: write 100 accomplishments about yourself. Then look at your future self and see where they are and how they got there. If you're stuck, ask your future self what they did. The key around success is flexibility and adaptability. When blips happen, we can't let them derail us completely, but we get around them and keep moving forward. Even in coming up with that list of 100 accomplishments, we can find resistance, and we need to work through it to start recognizing our accomplishments. Stuck? Time to go to people who know you and can help you hold up to a mirror to yourself. Looking through the lens of alignment, we want to align the ecosystem of all of the pieces of our lives. We have to see what needs attention and lean towards that place -- be in the center and core of who we are and our values. This helps us decide what to focus on. We get messed up when we think everything needs equal weight. Our values and overall goals -- be it social, health, or career -- will help us to balance and make choices throughout our lives. And, the choices we make are the right ones for that time in our life. How do we discover what we should do in this world? The thing is, we don't know everything that is out there in the world! Think about buying a car. You make a list about the features you need, the looks you like, and so on. If we need a minivan, but then buy a sports car, it's not a fit. We have to look at career choices the same way: as a holistic list of features and responsibilities that we need and want. Carol's focus is on women in mid-life. She built her brand and business by sharing her life, truth, struggles, and in sharing honestly her process in finding her own authenticity. When we lose the chains of the patriarchy that tells us what we need to be and limits what can do, that's when we can tear up those rules and define our own path and what's best for us. We're all so much more powerful than we think we are. Personal branding is a big thing, but what about the people who don't want the spotlight? Well...be it and own it and make sure you have profiles out there to say who and what you are. Fear is...scary, and for Carol, the scariest thing was becoming an entrepreneur at 50 and not having a regular paycheck. She knew it wasn't practical, but when her dad passed away, she realized that life is short and she needed to live a life she wouldn't regret. As soon as she made the decision and quit her job, the nerves went away. Looking back, she feels like her life began at that moment. We're now in a phase that people are calling the Great Resignation -- or as Carol calls it, the Great Realization. She sees people looking for work with meaning. She shows how people innovate and change with flexibility, especially post-Covid, and sees people who are looking for a human-centered approach to work. People look for places that will allow people to change and adapt as the world moves forward, and employers are looking for people who are adaptable. Connect with Carol: Twitter: https://twitter.com/drcpwalsh Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrCarolParkerWalsh Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarolparkerwalsh/ Website: https://www.carolparkerwalsh.com/ Podcast: https://www.carolparkerwalsh.com/podcast

We have a listener question!!! We got a great email from a global listener that we had to record right away (we sent them the raw recording). The letter was as follows: Hi ladies I have recently discovered this podcast and it has already helped me so much. I am a lawyer. I began working at a firm run by two people that I know very well and have a long (20 year) history with. Prior to accepting this role, I had another 6 week stint at a smaller law firm, but left that role to work here. 7 weeks into starting this new role I have the opportunity to interview at a large industrial company - a job that I desperately want, and which is out of practising law - something else I desperately want. This role offers double the salary, gym benefits, car leasing, health insurance - basically everything I could need. My question to you is: how do I quit a job that I have only just started!? I want to do the right thing by the people I know, but this opportunity is too good to pass up. Send help! Thank you, Janet First, we thank Janet for writing in and using her Board of Advisors (which now we're on!). We tell her to follow her heart and dreams, and if she gets the job go for it. Then we remind Janet that she needs to figure out IF this is her ideal job, so she needs to really do some work on her must-have list. The reason is that we want Janet to figure out what she's running towards and what she's running from. To make a pivot, especially from something like law that takes a lot of time and education, is a big tough decision. We tell her to really be clear on her values and align them with the new company. Right now the job has rose-covered glasses and a gym membership, but those will fade and since you've recently made a move, we want this job to stick, and if values aren't aligned it won't. For Janet, she will need to quit a job where she was just hired by people who she's known for 20 years. We assume they wanted to work with her and we want her to leave the conversation with them happy for her, but disappointed for themselves. Tell them how great they are and how much you like working with them, and that you were not looking but the perfect opportunity came to you and you took it. List out the comp, benefits, move from law and why you couldn't refuse this offer. Make sure they can look at the opportunity through your eyes and that this isn't about them but it is about your happiness. Most importantly, try your best to find and train your replacement. This means asking the new job to give you more time before you start in order to not leave your new role in a lurch. Whatever you can do to help your replacement is what you want to do with sincerity. You're reaching out to your connections, posting the role, and making a public effort to find someone new. If you quit with sincerity, show people your path, and do your best to find and train your replacement, you will preserve your relationships. Assess the opportunity and follow your dreams, Janet!

You're starting a new job. Congrats! OK, now what's next? Every company does onboarding differently: some bigger companies tend to have more structured onboarding and some start-ups less so. HR onboarding is more about paperwork, but the true onboarding that we are talking about is how the existing team and managers can help new people understand what's needed in the role, how to do the job and how to maneuver around the company. First thing in a new job is to meet with your manager to get the lay of the land and talk about expectations for 30, 60, and 90 days in. Ask “What are you looking for from me in this role?”. Next, connect with a colleague who can show you the hands-on ropes and make it so that you're not always going to your manager with every question. Ask how things are done: how do you use email, Slack, phone etc, and learn how others do things to learn company norms. Mirroring will help establish fit and connection. Take a look at the org chart and see who is running the show, meaning IT, office manager, etc. They can help you understand how things work. Help them help you and be very grateful. In those first weeks, be an observer: learn how things are done, but try to get to know people and company norms before you jump right in. Your goal should be to learn and help to make things better. The caveat “I'm new and learning, but from my experience….” is a powerful one. The learning curve is intense in the first 3-6 months of a new job. Give yourself time and make sure you're taking good care of yourself so that you maintain your new hire energy. Timing is everything when you're going for a new job, and you need to know what you need to be successful, both in the job and what your personal life allows. Good luck in the new job!

Welcome Michele, resume coach, recruiter, and LI influencer extraordinaire. Michele is a seasoned global HR professional who is the owner of O&H Consulting. We brought Michele to RJT to talk about resumes, job searches and to give insider tips around job seeking. Michele's big picture resume rules: The top one-third of your first page needs to answer who you are, what you want, and why does the reader care? Depending on which ATS (applicant tracking system) we're working on, we either see the actual resume you uploaded, or we get a parsed version which is word soup. No pictures. Ever. No canned phrases -- recruiters know them and dislike them...if you have the word “athlete”, you better be talking about a sport…. Insider tip: recruiters look at your resume for a few seconds to decide if you are a no or a maybe. If you're a maybe, we'll give you a lot of time, but if we can't see a maybe in a few seconds, we won't scroll down. Most recruiters work with databases called an ATS. Many of them parse fancy resumes into word soup, so make sure you have a text only resume if you are applying online. On your resume, NO PICTURES. Some companies have to rule you out if you attach pictures. Words only. Michele advises to show both who you are as a professional and who you are as a person. Michele talks about a friend who is both an Engineering Manager and an Aspiring Zombie Novelist... Recruiters want to talk to people who are interesting, so grab their attention appropriately! LinkedIn is a business, so if you want your profile noticed, you need to be an active LinkedIn user. If you're searching for a job, it helps to be an active user, because you come up in the algorithm more often. To be an active user, you must have 500+ connections, and provide five pieces of data a day, meaning a like, comment, share, or post. Liking five things a day matters to the algorithm, and you will come up higher when people are searching for you. Some recruiters have special access to LI Recruiter, which is very $$, so many recruiters don't use it. We talk about Open To Work... Michele thinks it's fine, but it also leaves you open to contingent recruiter reach outs and people selling bad resume writing to you. Michele, as a resume writer, talks about how to find someone who isn't a snake oil salesperson resume writer (they're out there in droves). There's a LI group called Job Seeker Guardians whose purpose is to keep people from being ripped off by bad resume writers. Ask them before hiring someone! Also, make sure they have been an active recruiter in the last 5 years. The industry has changed, and you want someone who has the most recent information. Someone who has never been a recruiter, even if they've hired people before, won't have the perspective of someone who has recruited. Lastly, if someone asks for your resume and wants to send it back “done” and doesn't talk to you isn't worth it. If it's under $100, they're either not spending time or their time isn't valuable ... either are a rip off. Smarmy resume writers love ripping off executives. Execs need a 1-sheet for the panel and Board, but they also need a developed 4 page strategy around the strategies and cultures they've created. Even more tips? Numbers! Numbers create context. Don't tell me your duties, but tell me your impact. As a sales person, we know you create rapport, but we want to know what your numbers were and did you hit them? What did you sell, who did you sell it to, and how much did you sell??? The technology you work with is important. What systems do you use? For example, in HR, what HRIS do you know? Payroll system? ATS? Performance system??? People search for the technologies you use. That said, saying you know email, Word, Excel, Zoom just makes you someone living in 2021. For people who are managers, they still brand themselves as an IC and then are surprised when they are only tagged as an IC and then get rejected because they're a strategic contributor. Be honest about the technology you know or you risk getting caught. Saying you know version 1.7 when the latest version is 1.2 will get you caught. Also, do not lie about degrees or jobs -- background checks will catch you. Lying in an application will not go well for you and will put you on the “never hire” list for that company. In general, telling the truth will be so much easier and will help them get to know the real you. We asked Michele how to work with recruiters. Her first piece of advice is to never pay a recruiter/website to find you a job. Her second piece of advice is that recruiters work for companies, and not for you. Help them figure out if it's a waste of time, yours and theirs, and see if it's a fit. They're not the hiring manager, but can be a great advocate, and they want to see if you're going to be a fit. Have a pitch of what you're doing and what you're looking for and be ready to give it when asked. Be ready to answer questions and talk about money up front because the recruiter is trying to see if it's a good fit. It's not worth your time if they can't pay you.

This week we talk about divisiveness at work. Divisive opinions at work are an example of divisiveness in the world ... people seem to be on one side or the other of so many issues, and we can't remember a time when people have been so polarized. We love the saying “Let's agree to disagree." -- thank you David Campt for going deeper on that with us in Episode 52 (https://realjobtalk.com/52-coming-together-to-end-2020-with-david-campt) -- and we try to use it whenever possible. By diviseness, we're talking about when there are different camps who don't come together - or people who like to make work political. We agree that good leaders help build alignment and cohesiveness. Building respect around the mission -- and a leader who demands respectful interaction -- helps to bring people together to work towards common goals. Taking a time out can also work. When you're feeling emotional, take a time out and find a time to talk it through at another time. Some roles that these dividers can take at work: The Whisperer. You know them: the person who goes cube to cube whispering (but they don't go to SOME people's cubes) or is calling ⅔ of the team members. This person who promotes exclusivity and in- vs out-groups. This person might recommend you say something in a meeting, but when you stick your neck out, they don't back you up. The Exhausted person. When we're fried, we're not as resilient, and we're not our best selves ... so sometimes stress and lack of resilience brings out bad behavior. The Bully. They need boundaries or they will run over everyone, so you need to push back or they'll get out of control. Shout out to Sarah Noll Wilson in Episode 26 (https://realjobtalk.com/26-leadership-training-neurodiversity-sarah-noll-wilson) and her call to leadership to go deeper and see their people as HUMANS and to teammates who acknowledge stress and offer to help/cover and work together to take a minute. If your team is divided, you can talk with your leadership privately to tell them what you're seeing and ask for help in bringing people together. How do you work with a divisive person? Try to talk 1:1, document divisive behavior, try to align with everyone in the group in hopes that others won't exclude you. Raise your hand to show that you're capable and want to work with others. Humor is a great way to diffuse a tough work situation. Making people laugh can really bring stress levels down. When nothing is working, talk with your boss and ask for suggestions of how we can work together. Sometimes things get heated, and it's ok to take some time off and come back when you're calm. Write the emotional email as a journal entry, and then write another that's kind, compassionate, and helpful with the goal towards working together.

We have a letter from a listener who doesn't think they reacted properly when a colleague quit. They reacted with a big “Really? Why? I thought you liked it here!?!” and then felt like a bad colleague when the person looked visibly uncomfortable and showed them that they'd overstepped. For the colleague, we referenced Episode 55 “The Art of Quitting”. We discussed why the person might have quit that had nothing to do with the workplace or were reasons they didn't want to share. Things like a personal illness or illness of a family member, or maybe the person is being quietly harassed and wants to get away. Whatever the reason, it's that person's to tell and not ours to ask. So when a colleague quits, your response is, “Wow - I've really enjoyed working together, and I will miss having you on the team.” Use the opportunity to share words of appreciation and gratitude for how the person has supported you. Wish them well and offer to help with the transition. It's 100% up to the person who is quitting to share why they quit, where they are going, and how they came to the decision. No questions. No matter how curious you are. Ultimately, it's none of your business. AND, if it is a work issue that you don't know about, the knowledge could impact your work experience. What if it was a breakup, and they're sad about it and want to get away, but they never let anyone know they were dating a colleague? Being kind and supportive around your relationship with them is #1. They've given notice and made the decision, so it's not the time to convince them to stay. You want to help them move forward. Note to the quitters - have your story ready to go because people ARE going to ask, so you want to have an answer in order to minimize the drama. Our job as colleagues is to help someone exit gracefully and be a supportive colleague, figure out how to maintain the relationship and make it easy.

Welcome to Real Job Talk, Whitney Casares- the author of the Working Mom Blueprint, pediatrician, mom, and supporter of moms in the workplace through her community at www.modernmommydoc.com. We invited Whitney to join us to talk about the realities of being a working mom, and also to discuss how managers, teams, and companies can support working parents. The pandemic has shed a light on the experience of being a working mom, and has given us a behind-the-scenes look at all of the things parents are juggling while also showing up at work. Whitney is the type of person who leans into everything she does- including being a pediatrician and a leader of her pediatric group. When Whitney became a mom she realized how hard it was to balance everything and felt like she was losing it in all areas. She started asking herself what she wanted her working mom life to look like, what gave her purpose, and she talked with other working moms about the inner conflict she was feeling. She coaches women on thinking about what their center vision is and what they want to define their life. Whitney's 5 center points are: * Connection with her kids * Personal wellness * Contribution to other women in a meaningful way * Financial freedom * Travel/adventure/new experiences She decluttered her physical space and schedule so that when making decisions she has freedom to put up boundaries against things that don't serve her center vision. That vision and those boundaries really come down to values- such as thinking about her children as being attached but independent. It's hard to break the pattern of being a pleaser and putting others in front of ourselves. It takes work (Whitney worked with a therapist and others). Surrounding yourself with like-minded people who are supportive of you is key to being true to yourself and your goals. As a working parent, choosing your volunteering wisely is a key to preserving sanity and energy. Whitney knows that the example she shows her daughters of being a CEO and managing with empathy teaches them the value of hard work, the ability of women to succeed without running ourselves into the ground, showing the value of rest and rejuvenation. We ask Whitney her thoughts on how society doesn't support working parents (not being open off-hours, asking parents to help in the classroom etc), and how companies can support parents. Whitney mentions Mary-Beth Ferrante of Work 360 talking about Parenting Out Loud, which means having people at all levels of the organization feel comfortable talking about themselves as parents. If the CEO is talking about having to leave work to take their kid to the orthodontist, the accountant will feel free to do the same. Whitney talks about asking what you need as support as a parent, but she talks about mapping out solutions that meet all of the requirements of the job that needs to be done. It allows people to show up to work as themselves and identifying the problem and the solution. You can't expect your employer to solve your problem, and when you create the solution you have more control over it. We asked Whitney about Lean In and the message to working moms. Whitney feels like Sheryl Sandberg's book represented a huge pendulum swing, and now we've moved things back towards the middle which now will move things forward. She also criticizes the original Lean In messaging that women need to be more masculine, especially since our emotional acuity is what makes us better at work. Hiding our femininity does not service our teams or ourselves. We talk about not giving 100% and giving 70% in order to have reserves for ourselves, and Whitney discusses selective mediocrity. Some things require 100% of our attention, but others we can phone it in. We asked Whitney what she wishes everyone working w parents, esp moms, knew, and she said to be aware of the depth of our conflict, and the desire to do it all and be it all. How we carry the mental load and a constant checklist of what our families need. Also to look at people as having moments and being able to take care of themselves during life changes and they will be more invested in the organization over time and thinking about what they can contribute over time. Seeing people as people and supporting them through change helps with retention. How do we support people as parents to make sure we have parents on our teams? Having representation at the highest levels of leadership is critical in order to make sure people's needs are represented. AND if you're the representative, you stand up for the people you represent. To make change, it's ok to start small. We talked about the great resignation and how over 3M women have left the workplace, and Whitney asks women to try and keep 1 foot in the door, but also for other people to mentor them back. People will come back to places that allow transparency and acknowledge the balance between parenting and work. Book: The Working Mom Blueprint (https://www.amazon.com/Working-Mom-Blueprint-Parenting-Yourself/dp/1610024869) Website: ModernMommyDoc.com (https://www.modernmommydoc.com/) Facebook: Modern Mommy Doc (https://www.facebook.com/modernmommydoc) Linkedin: Whitney Casares (https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitney-casares-m-d-m-p-h-f-a-a-p-445b19115/) Twitter: @modernmommydoc (https://twitter.com/modernmommydoc) Instagram: @modernmommydoc (https://www.instagram.com/modernmommydoc/)

Welcome, Don Khouri! Don is a PhD in Human and Organization Systems who works with leaders and individual contributors to build their presence, improve communication, and be more productive. It's this last area where we've asked Don to join us and talk about his book, When to Say YES (https://donkhouri.com/book/), to help our listeners learn more about being productive, especially in the workplace. Don held a number of roles in the corporate world, mostly at Fidelity Investments, and for the last 12 years he's been coaching leaders around productivity and leadership skills. Don's definition of productivity is “to be laser focused on your goals, making progress on your goals, and that feeling that comes along with it.” Not to be confused with being busy or overwhelmed. We asked how to differentiate the little things that need to be done vs productivity. As knowledge workers, the requests for our time exceeds the time we have. We need to know when to say yes or no, and if we can decide up front what to say no to, our plate can be more manageable. A lot of companies, especially big companies, request a lot of people's time for meetings. People say yes too often, according to Don's research, and don't like to say no, so they waste time in meetings. If the meeting's agenda isn't clearly defined with action items, and if you're being invited as an FYI, do you have to be there? Don's methodology is research-based from conversations with c-level executives around how to evaluate requests for their time. He recommends asking 4 questions before saying yes to something. They are: Does this align with my roadmap? (you need to have one of those...see Real Job Talk episode 27 on setting career/work goals (-https://realjobtalk.com/27-setting-career-and-work-related-goals) and episode 54 with L'areal Lipkins (https://realjobtalk.com/54-envisioning-2021-with-lareal-lipkins).) Who is asking? (boss, customer….) Be clear on the relationship hierarchy. Is it a quality request? Has it been thought through and do you need to be there? There are times when you have to decide to support others on their roadmap so they'll support you on yours. Maybe you get time back by cutting the amount of time (25 mins vs 30) or having someone else go? Before you go, make sure the agenda is clear and the time will be spent well. A nice way to say no is “not now” if the request doesn't align with your goals right now. Don says that in a smaller company, it's important to focus on the essentials and the company roadmap. We asked Don how a jobseeker can uncover if a company is productive in the interview process. He said to ask, “How do you know if someone is productive?” We chimed in to ask if the interview process is productive or drawn out. We also brainstormed to ask the hows around a job, and how many meetings people in the same role have each day. Calendars. They manage us. How do you manage more efficiently? Don's a fan of time blocking and using color coding to see where you're spending your time. He has “client time”, “travel time”, “speaking time”, and “catch up”. “Eliminate your free time” says Don. WHAT??? What he means is to block your personal time just like you do your work time. “There is no personal time. There is no professional time. There's just living.”- According to Richard Branson, there is no difference and we should plan our rest and our work. We have to know when to say no to preserve ourselves. And, when we work for others, it can be tough. To help with transparency, you can ask your boss to help you prioritize and make time to work on a new task. The word priority used to be single, meaning to do one thing at a time. How do you set yourself up for success while saying no? There's a planning fallacy: We think we can get more done than we can do, and we usually underestimate our time. When feeling like you're not sure how much time it will take, ask someone else to look at it. The best performing teams have guiding principles to hold each other accountable to getting the work done. You can go to the stakeholder and ask them for help in getting productivity back. Praise publicly, critique privately. Don shares his favorite productivity tools: Action Tracking: Trello Notes: OneNote Teaming: Slack The thing to keep in mind is that tools like email and Slack can ruin productivity. You sometimes need to turn them off to focus. Don recommends turning off all notifications. Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/donkhouri Instagram: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donkhouri/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/donkhouri Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donkhouri/ Website: https://donkhouri.com/ Don's book, When to Say YES: The 5 steps to protect your time: https://donkhouri.com/book/

This episode is discussing the complex question of going back into the office as companies are beginning to open up their offices and asking workers to return. We talk about options around going back to work, questions to ask, obstacles, and how to communicate with your team around your availability. The emotions around back to work are complicated. Talk with your manager before making a decision around what to do around back-to-office, no matter how uncomfortable that may be. You need to do what you have to do to keep yourself and your loved ones safe. Assuming that, before you keep your sweats on forever, we want to remind you of the GOOD parts about coming back to the office. Things such as: Being able to see everyone around a table -- no cameras, nobody with their cameras turned off -- so that everyone can sense body language and communicate better Impromptu conversations Meeting people outside your role and your group and networking naturally Off-the-cuff learning and mentoring The casual interactions that happen in the office, even when they're not about work, can help us process the little things that happen in our days. Having a second to connect with an officemate over a broken shower or weird smell during your commute helps us process and get past the little things in life. We've found that training is SO much better in person. There is something lost in the online training, conferences, and learning online where folks are multi-tasking vs being in a room together. Being able to ask a question without having to feel like you're bothering someone is excellent. And being brought into impromptu conversations, meetings, and seeing other people's work is so helpful in building skills that will help in your career. Working from home can be isolating and can also make people feel more alone. The number of people reporting depression is up, and some people are suffering from the lack of social connection that they get from being in the office. A lot of people want and need more separation between their "home self" and their "work self." Parents really enjoy the flexibility of working from home because of the constant demands of schools for our presence. We can come and go without our colleagues noticing. The WFH decision as a parent is different, so when working with parents, having compassion and understanding around people's different needs. The focus needs to be on how well someone is doing their job -- no matter their circumstances -- vs face time in the office. Before you quit, listen to what your company is thinking around back to work. Try it!

Fear and doubt come in so many forms, including imposter syndrome, self-deprecation, and holding yourself back in other ways. We're here to talk about how to overcome these things in the workplace. Kat comes from a position of normalizing fear and doubt and accepting them as a part of the human experience. How do we recognize fear and doubt? Awareness and acceptance. It's about “oh -- I recognize this! It's fear and doubt!” and then allowing ourselves to address and combat those thoughts to take away the power we give to them. We have to normalize the human experience and be prepared to move forward despite fear and doubt. Fear can be a good thing, a warning sign to watch out. If everyone is optimistic all the time, sometimes we miss the warning signs that a devil's advocate or pessimist may bring. Hearing our fears allows us to see what could get in our way, so that we can deal with it. Our responses to fear and doubt are personalized. Some people thrive on stress and others hide in corners. If you're avoiding your fears at all costs, what's that doing to your career? Some people use adrenaline to fuel their work, and others work systematically to avoid that last-minute stress. Today we're sharing several coping strategies for fear and doubt. The best one we know is first to calm down -- to step away and take a 5-minute break, or at least a few breaths to set your head right. We talk about box breathing (inhale for 4 seconds, hold for 4, exhale for 4, wait for 4), and other breathing techniques. Remember, feelings aren't permanent, and acknowledging them takes their power. We also tend to tell ourselves stories that aren't always true. Ask yourself what you know, acknowledge that you're feeling fear and doubt and WHY you're feeling it, and take that power back to help yourself move through it. Liz likes to ask, “Can I control this?” If the answer is no, you can't engage with the fear because you have no control over it (e.g., if your company gets acquired), but you can think of best-case scenarios instead of worst-case. Sometimes fear is an indicator of excitement. Ask yourself, “Am I afraid or am I excited?” Often new and/or growth opportunities bring up fear and doubt, but when you can acknowledge that you're excited about the growth that they will produce, you can lean into those feelings and push yourself towards learning. When something feels huge and scary, break it down into pieces to make it more manageable and plan out how to make it happen. Do your best, understand your resources, and know that if you aren't 100% successful, it's ok. Mistakes are learning opportunities, and when we learn from mistakes we're actually stronger than if we're always successful. Think of batting averages or VC wins/losses….nobody hits home runs 100% of the time. When you combat fear and doubt and take risks, REWARD YOURSELF. Give yourself the acknowledgment of getting to the other side. Not necessarily with a designer wardrobe, but maybe an ice cream or a mocha. Make sure to reward yourself with a job well done. Whatever works, do more of it. When you're in a state of stress, it's important to sleep, eat well, and take care of yourself. By taking care of yourself, you'll set yourself up for success. Decisions need to be aligned to values and what's close to your heart. Using your must-have list and values to make decisions will help guide you towards opportunities. Liz introduced a term: name it to tame it. When you can identify the feeling, it loses some of its power. And if you can name it, understand it, and then talk yourself through it, you're able to move past the fear towards a goal. Liz gave an example of sending her kids to camp vs hiding them in their rooms after an anti-Semitic incident. Women disproportionately succumb to fear and doubt, feeling like they can't go for opportunities. Ask yourself, “what do I need to do now?” or “how can I make this happen?” For every 100 men promoted to manager, 80 women are promoted, according to a study by the consulting firm McKinsey. We're here to encourage you to move yourself forward. Sometimes we worry about current job performance and the ability to be successful in something new. Often people, especially women, won't raise their hands if they don't feel 100% able to take something on. If you're feeling it 70%, GO FOR IT! We think about L'areal Lipkins and her vision boards from Episode 54 (https://realjobtalk.com/54-envisioning-2021-with-lareal-lipkins), what excuses you're making, and what you can do to make those excuses go away. Make sure your people, your friends, and the colleagues you hang with are positive, helping, and encouraging. Surrounding yourself with people you admire can help you try new things and having role models helps you to aspire to grow. Liz and Kat use each other as sounding boards to evaluate new decisions. Sometimes trying new things takes practice; find what tools work for you. Remember, the most successful people have overcome Imposter Syndrome. For proof listen to our episodes with Amy Lewis (https://realjobtalk.com/12-imposter-syndrome-with-amy-lewis) and Joep Piscaer (https://realjobtalk.com/51-imposter-syndrome-joep-piscaer)). Kat is also an incredible coach through fear and doubt. We're here to you support you in not letting fear and doubt hold you back. You can do hard things!

Welcome to Real Job Talk, Kat Cosgrove, Staff Developer Advocate from Pulumi. We invited Kat to join us to talk about her experience as a technical woman in the technology industry. After a conference, Kat tweeted about being hit on in the virtual hallways, and Liz and Kat Troyer talked about how people really need to be more aware of appropriate behavior in professional settings. Kat started as an engineer, taught at a bootcamp, and then found her way to being a Developer Advocate for the last 2 years. Kat tells us how she's always asked to talk about the nice parts of being a woman in tech, but was excited to talk with us and pull back the curtain on the ugly parts. The parts we want to change. Now. First we asked Kat to talk about the differences she experienced as a developer vs working in a more public role. She said that as an engineer, the sexism was quieter; she was underpaid, underappreciated, overworked, and often talked over. She had to really stand up for her ideas and make sure she was listened to. As a Developer Advocate with 20,000 Twitter followers, she gets inappropriate attention and even hit on a lot, and when she doesn't respond positively, men have done so far as to threaten her job. Once, after a conferrence, someone messaged Kat on the conference platform to try to hire her because he wanted to hire a "female." Kat turned him down, and also asked him not to refer to her as female because she found it insulting. He flew off the handle, yelled at her, and when she posted redacted screenshots of the interaction, he filed a code of conduct violation with the conference and said she and her followers had threatened him and his family. He also approached her company's HR department. In this case, both the conference and Kat's HR department saw that the hiring manager was inappropriate, and that Kat hadn't done anything wrong. We asked Kat what she thinks the aggression she sees is about, and she feels like it might be about how women are conditioned to be docile (she's not) and men machismo. Kat hears advice for women in tech that they need to be assertive, loud, mean, and aggressive, and we all agreed that's BS. Why can't people be themselves? AND why in 2021 are we talking about objectifying people at work? It amazed us that Kat's DMs are “a cesspit” and people feel free to send her inappropriate pictures, comments etc. Would they send those to their boss??? We asked about people like us, who aren't as technical as Kat. She believes that men who are sending these inappropriate messages believe all women aren't technical, and that they always assume that she's less technical than she is, so she's constantly proving her value as an engineer, showing both her critical thinking skills while using her soft skills to understand the customers/users of her products and work as a part of a healthy team. People's behaviors can be different in the office with your team vs at a conference with strangers and acquaintances. Kat feels lucky to have been on great teams that have supported her and stood by her if people are disrespecting her. Conferences are social, and Kat has to be “on” for her role, which is different from the office. At this point, she's quick to file a Code of Conduct violation to do her part in stopping inappropriate behavior. At conferences, Kat limits herself to 2 drinks to stay sober and make sure that she stays safe. Kat said that when she calls people out for being inappropriate, she gets told that she's limiting the places that people can meet potential partners. Not true! If you are interested in someone professionally, get to know them….SLOWLY. Go to lunch. Find out their favorite pastimes. And if there's chemistry -- AND CONSENT -- you can take things to the next level. It isn't ok to come out of the gate with “I want you. Let's sleep together.” Kat's married, but her husband is private, so he doesn't come up a lot on her social media. She find that many men ONLY back off once she mentions her husband, NOT when she says no. Think about that. One time, Kat had booth duty and someone asked for an engineer. She said she was an engineer, and then he proceeded to ask if she knew what a DNS server was, and then explained to her how the internet works. Nobody does that to her male colleagues. Twitter's a weird place. How do you become a friend without being a stalker? Kat's met friends on the internet, and even her husband on the internet! Kat breaks down her hierarchy of Twitter acquaintances vs actually having her phone number. The screwed up thing is that after she said it, she was afraid people would try to find her number (good luck -- she doesn't answer it). She has 2 Instagrams: a private one that's described as just for friends and one where she sends strangers that ask inappropriately with a big "No" sign on it. She feels that people think that she has lewd pictures on the private account, but it's just so she can share things with friends and away from inappropriate internet strangers . We all talked about making sure people we work with know we're married in order to draw a line. Being professional means making people feel comfortable in your presence. How does Kat assess new roles for her career? When Kat is looking at a new job, she asks about conflict resolution. It tells a lot about management and the company's HR. She also asks about politics at work. She feels that companies who won't discuss politics at work also won't stand up for critical issues, and that's a sign that women should run.

Check out our new tagline!!! We're evolving, and while we loved our water cooler, it's been sitting dormant since March, 2020. Real Job Talk is the podcast for mid-career professionals looking for practical career guidance. Today we're talking about vulnerability and telling our stories, inspired by some training Liz has been doing. A great way to get to know someone and to hear how other people have found success is to ask “How did you get to where you are today?” Many people believe that careers happen to people vs people managing their own careers. We're here to dispel the myth of the career fairy and to find out how people have figure out where to take their career. How does someone with a marketing degree get to sales operations? What moves did they make? Showing how others have helped us and how we want to help others can open us up to mentorships and making our own career journey real. Being appropriately vulnerable (read Dare to Lead if you want to learn more) helps us to reflect and help others learn from us. If your company has ERGs (employee resource groups), JOIN THEM! You can learn from these other people and their stories - after all they'll have at least 2 things in common with you: the area/theme of the group as well as the fact you're at the same company. ERGs are great places to meet mentors and role models and to learn your colleagues' stories, to share yours, can to help you better understand and get ideas about your own career. Sharing how you navigated something can help others -- both career stories and life stories -- and can build mutual respect and bonds. Showing how you got through a tough time shows your coping skills, problem solving, adaptivity, and resiliency.

Today's episode is about building and deepening professional relationships at work, and small changes that can have a big impact on your work relationships, personal brand, and people's experience working with you. Tip #1. No ghosting. We discuss the person, who we never know if they are going to show up to our meetings, and therefore we wonder how much they respect our time. The key here is to look at your calendar regularly to avoid double bookings and no-shows, and to let someone know AHEAD OF TIME (vs after the fact) when you won't make the meeting. Giving someone time back = good. Leaving them staring at a blank screen = not good. Sending the “are you going to make this meeting?” email stinks. That said, we know no-shows happen, and we apologize and move on. That said, “Sorry I missed our meeting, I was in the car.” is BS -- you KNEW you were getting in the car, and you KNEW you had a meeting... you know better, and we're encouraging yourself to do better. *Tip #2. Be on time. *Liz worked with SignalFx for years, and a core value of the company was to respect people's time, so meetings started on time, and calls happened on time. If someone was going to be late, they would send an email, text, or Slack. Nobody was ever left waiting and it was GLORIOUS. *Tip #3. Keep people posted on your progress. *When you're assigned a project, the people you work with are going to assume you're going to meet your deadline. Send an update half way through, let your colleagues know if you forsee any delays, and help people know they can rely on you to update them and meet your deliverables. Yes, it may be uncomfortable to send an update, especially if you're going to miss a deliverable, but setting expectations is key to building trust at work. Tip #4. Be kind. Thank the IT person who fixes your computer. Say hi when you see someone in the kitchen. Don't leave a mess for the janitor. Being kind makes you pleasant to work with. If people like working with you, they're going to give you opportunities. How you behave has a ripple effect in your career. Savvy interviewers are looking for how people treat others around them- it's important to be kind. Tip #5. Don't overshare. Giving the gory details of your latest virus or of your breakup is completely unnecessary. Big picture, “I'm sick and can't come to work” - yes. Every detail of fever, headache, vomit, and malaise - no. Tip #6. Follow Up. Don't ghost. If someone takes the time to talk with you, reaches out with an idea, and especially if you say something like “I want to work with you” or “I'm going to follow up by this date.” Yes, it may feel uncomfortable to tell someone that you've changed your mind, but it's about respecting someone's time enough to follow up when you say you will. Kat and Liz agree that they both will bend over backwards for people who show them respect, whereas they put less time and effort into people who don't show appreciation for our efforts. If you're respectful to the people who you are working with, they'll be respectful to you, and you will build more robust professional relationships.

Welcome to Real Job Talk, Jordan Babineaux! Jordan was an NFL player for 10 years, is a sports broadcaster, runs serveral businesses, is receiving his MBA, and is a true entrepreneur. Jordan joins us to talk about his new book, Pivot to Win, and we ask him all about pivoting towards both success and happiness. Jordan defines leadership as being a facilitator: how do I bring the best out of other people and get different people aligned to the same goal? Jordan sees routine as a key to his success and it helps him to focus and avoid distractions. He sets goals each day in order to move things forward. Jordan thinks a lot about how he starts and ends his day. He starts his day by reading, working out, and praying, yoga, or meditation. He encourages people to start with baby steps of focusing on self, and doing 5 minutes of mindfulness a day. For his wind down, depending on activities with his kids, he leaves behind his tech and gadgets and spends uninterrupted time with his family, and he makes sure to turn off his phone an hour before bed. Change can mean a shift in identity. You need to recognize it and start getting ready to pivot before you do it, as you can. Jordan started commentating before his 10th season in the NFL. Pivots happen daily between work and home, from one meeting to another…. Jordan creates a quick buffer zone between different activities in order to leave one behind and focus on the next as his best self. Jordan's pivoting model has 5 steps: 1. Recognize change (planned or unplanned) and how you can leverage your skills to achieve what you want. 2. Declare where you're going. 3. Ground zero: see where you are. 4. Courage: fight imposter syndrome as you move through the change. 5. Transform: act in your purpose. Jordan likes Susan Scott's book called Fierce Conversations about tackling tough challenges and enriching relationships through them. Growth mindset is a highly valued skill in the workplace, and Jordan teaches us about having a growth mindset in order to build your career, and how a fixed mindset can hold you back. We asked Jordan about preparing to pivot. We talk about being uncomfortable and wanting to leave a place better than you found it. Jordan asks himself these questions: Did I do something for myself? Did I do something for others? Did I do something for the community? These questions ground him in his higher purpose and keep him focused on his goals. Like Brene Brown, Jordan Babineaux believes leaders should be vulnerable and share their powerful thoughts on vulnerability. That's a key piece of leadership, even though it's scary. He encourages leaders to step out, be their real self ,and ask their team for help when they need it. All relationships should have reciprocity, and by trusting your people you build a reciprocal relationship. Why did Jordan write the book? Because he saw how he was able to grow through change and how his self-awareness helped him through change, and he wanted to share with others. If you mix accountability with self-awareness, you're more powerful. Jordan knew his football self was an "alpha male," but he went to therapy, learned his triggers, and became a better self to be better in business. Thanks to Jordan Babineaux for joining us on Real Job Talk! Book : (Pivot to Win:Make The Big Plays In Life, Sports & Business)[https://www.amazon.com/Pivot-Win-Plays-Sports-Business-ebook/dp/B08TB7MZBD Book website: (www.pivottowin.com)[https://www.pivottowin.com] Twitter: (@jordanbabineaux)[https://twitter.com/jordanbabineaux] Instagram: (@jordanbabineaux)[https://www.instagram.com/jordanbabineaux/]

May is mental health awareness month, and we want to tell you to take care of yourself. Yes, you hear us talk about self care, but we also want you to know that you’re not alone and that your employer may have resources for you. Today we’re talking about toxicity and how to tell if a work environment is healthy or toxic. Liz has a coaching client who is looking for a new role after leaving a toxic culture, and she wants to make sure she ends up in a better place. Of course, the branding on the old company’s website makes it look like a safe and happy place, when in reality, it’s a pretty terrible environment. We dive into how you can explore to see if a company’s environment will be a good place for you. Review our job search learning track: https://realjobtalk.com/resources What is a toxic work environment? It’s different for everyone. A big question to ask yourself, “Do you feel safe at work?” Kat works with clients to build constructive (aka more effective) cultures. They can be: * Achievement-focused goals: work together, but see individual contribution is important. * Self-Actualizing: high levels of integrity and reflective * Humanistic/encouraging: involves others in their decision making process (vs being a dictatorship) * Affiliative: cooperative, friendly, puts others at ease What gets in the way of having a constructive culture? Lack of safety. When people don’t feel safe, they are sometimes passive defensive (avoiding tough conversations, protecting themselves, people pleasing/approval seeking, avoiding putting their neck out to protect themselves), aggressive defensive (disagreeing to prove a point, competitive over collaborative), or perfectionistic. If you don’t feel safe in some way, it’s toxic for you. How do you get over a toxic situation? Talk with someone who knows you and learn what triggers you and what you’re not looking for when you make a move. What am I avoiding and what do I need to know to avoid it in the future? Questions to ask to figure out if a place is toxic (during in-person interview process): * How are decisions make here? * What’s the process when this team starts new projects? * How do people on this team share ideas? * What is the manager’s style? * What problems will I be figuring out on my own? * Peer question: How involved in your day-to-day work is the manager?? * What made you join/stay at Company XYZ? FYI: employment branding is marketing! Companies pay people to write values and make their companies look like great places to work. Ask questions around the values. You say your company values learning, so what are some classes you’ve taken in the last year? If someone is shutting down or not answering, probing won’t help. YOU own your career and need to ask the questions that will determine if it’s the right place for you. It’s your job to peel back the employment branding work to see what the real work environment is like and is it going to be a good fit for you. Assess items off your must-have list and values to determine fit. How does this change in a remote setting? Ask questions like: * How will I get to know people on the team or in other groups? * What does onboarding look like? * What was the culture like before and how has it changed? * What are you hoping changes/happens in the “new normal”?

Welcome to Real Job Talk, Mary Abbajay! Mary is a speaker, consultant, and trainer who works with managers and teams to create productive workplaces. She also teaches at the university and post-graduate level, speaks at numerous conferences, and is an active volunteer. Mary is the CEO of the Careerstone Group, and the author of Managing Up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BB4QFDF/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1). Mary wants to make the world a better place by making the workplace a better place. We asked Mary what the biggest challenge has been in the workplace over the last year, and she talks about how teams, managers, and companies weren’t prepared for remote work. Many people figured out how to manage up when they were in the office, but were lost when everything went remote. Bosses changed their approaches and life became complicated. In the beginning of the pandemic, Mary taught managers some skills about remote work such as learning how to manage with results and staying connected. She saw that managers didn’t know how to juggle everything and also manage remotely, and she reminds us to have empathy for our managers too. Managing up isn’t about sucking up and licking boots. It’s about managing that relationship and making sure it’s working well for you, your boss, and your organization. Keys to managing up: understanding the manager has influence over our career, and we can’t change them. People who manage up well understand that adapting how we react to others is an empowering skill. You know The Golden Rule - treat others how you want to be treated. For managing up, try The Platinum Rule -- learn how others like to be treated and then do that. When you give others what they need, it builds trust. Read your boss and how they communicate in order to figure out what will work best for them. Things to look for in your boss: are they focused on tasks or the big picture, do they have a fast-paced or slower work style, and do they like sharing a lot of info or just the highlights. Once you’ve assessed their style, you need to decide how you can and want to adjust. Mary has a conversational template for preferences, priorities and pet peeves….it’s your job to have it with them to build a shared framework for how the relationship will work. LCLD Manage Up HO_2020 You can have a check-in with them using this doc individually or as a team. Learning about them will change the dynamic of how you work together. How do you get better at managing up? First, have the conversation. Train yourself. See who is successful with the boss, and observe them ask them what works. A little of self-awareness, responsibility, and be willing to share new things grows this skill like any other. Mary tells a great story about a micromanager boss and how she changed their dynamic by reading her and how to best work with her Never assume that your boss knows what you’ve accomplished, are working on, or how valuable you are. It’s on YOU to show them how fabulous you are. Keep them in the loop and stay on their radar. Give until they tell you they don’t want it. Big rule: use that cc unless your boss doesn’t like it. The power of the cc is to have your boss know what you’re up to, but also to keep them in the loop so they aren’t caught unaware. Talk about work boundaries, your environment, and if and how you need help with flexibility. There are different types of bosses with keys to each: The “Normal” Boss. This category covers most poeple, whether they are introverts or extroverts, and across different management styles, like advancers, harmonizers, and energizers. The keys to an normal but introverted boss are to be proactive, stay on their calendar, tell them what you want to talk about, and give them time to speak. Manage your chatting….it drives them nuts! The key to an normal "evaluator" boss: they love details and accuracy. Learn to love the details and have the facts when you meet with them. “Difficult” bosses come in different styles, like micromanagers, impulsive boss, seagull boss, ghost-boss, work-a-holic, and “friend boss.” The key to micromanagers is to over-communicate and show them that you will do things the way they want you to. They need to get what they need. “Toxic” basses are those who humiliate, debase, abuse, bully, or are narcissists. Bad people who create toxic work environments. The main key to a toxic boss is to: 1. Get out! You can’t change an asshole, a narcissist, or a bully. Get out. If you find yourself working for a narcissist, you do need to be a kiss ass until you get out, but you have to determine how long you can do that and you protect your professional image. Remember they will raise themselves by pulling you down. In general, managing up is about finding the right strategy that will work with “this boss.” Mary has a great talk on YouTube about successfully working remotely (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZDKYyYOLC0). She advises to stay on the radar, invite your boss for a virtual, meaningful coffee. Ask your boss their preferred communication channel, and USE IT. Ask for feedback on what’s working well and not well, and ask if they’d like to see you change something, and tell them what you think would help. Stay positive and show some concern for your boss. Stay away from negativity and complaints without actions or suggestions Being a complainer is a drain and will do nothing for your career. We asked about working with someone who is fundamentally different from us (e.g., an extrovert working with an introvert). Mary's advice: bring your best authentic self that the situation calls for and build the muscles that will push you to work with others. As always, you need to manage yourself first before you manage others You are the CEO of your career. The book: Managing Up: How to Move up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BB4QFDF/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1) LinkedIn Course: Managing Up as an Employee (https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6727341929207496704/) Twitter: https://twitter.com/maryabbajay Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-abbajay-managingup/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maryabbajay/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/maryabbajay Company: Careerstone Group (https://careerstonegroup.com/)

Welcome to Real Job Talk to NYU Professors Raúl Sánchez and Dan Bullock. Raúl and Dan teach a the Center for International Studies and write for the Wall Street Journey while also conducting training on international communication for organizations such as The UN and International Student group. Dan and Raúl wrote the book How to Communicate Effectively with Anyone, Anywhere to help people communicate better across geographical, language, and cultural boundaries. How did the book come up? Well, one night over Arby’s, Raúl, Dan, and Raúl’s twin (and book artist) Rod were talking about astronomy, stories, and the overview effect looking at communication when thinking of the planet as a whole vs. as separate places and cultures. Many people are working in global teams, and this book came about from the need for Global English, which takes out idioms, slang, and anything that doesn’t translate. Dan and Raúl encourage us to think about how we use language, and how hard it would be to understand something like “it blew my mind” to a second language learner. Classically, there are 3 ways to make an argument: appeal to logic, to emotion, and to credibility. These are important to include in a presentation designed to persuide a spectrum of different audiences. You have to think about culture too; 70% of the world operates in a "high-context" culture, one which is more collectivist , where people in a group are assumed to understand implicit information and context shared by the culture. On a global stage, appealing to people in these kinds of cultures, respect is important, as are knowing how to build trust and to disagree. You have to balance your implicit and explicit audiences and lead your audience on a journey through storytelling that will make the audience the hero of the story. We have schemata, or blueprints, for certain words, but our experiences and preferences shape how we experience words and stories. When we help people connect our words to our frameworks, our messages are clearer throughout. Speaking is done to persuade, entertain, or inform. Diction is important, as is making sure you’re connecting with your whole audience. You have to 1. Know your audience 2. Know your purpose 3. Know your message and 4. Know the value of your message. Carrying the value throughout will keep people engaged. In their book, Dan and Raúl talk about mirroring, and we ask about mirroring without losing yourself. It’s really about building natural rapport and connection. It’s about creating a spark that will move ideas and collaboration forwared, as well as fulfillment and service to each other. We move on to networking globally. We talk about building a network in your space, seeking out people across the globe, and then building ideas as you build out your network one person at a time. Carry out networking for discovery more than results. This helps build richer ideas and a truly global outlook. When you network for discovery, it leads to opportunities. What about when you screw up? Take the blame! Say things like, “I wasn’t clear.” Ask questions, look at body language, and know that the responsibility is on the communicator. Being direct, fact-based, and looking for connection are key to global communication. Other tips are to be explicity, not to imply; and to be aware in all communication around what we are implying. The goal is to clarify and make sure it’s a win-win for everyone in the conversation. This is an important book because it teaches us basic conversation skills that help us communicate globally and build relationships. Raúl's and Dan's book: How to Communicate Effectively With Anyone, Anywhere: Your Passport to Connecting Globally * Twitter: https://twitter.com/GlobalCommNYC * Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/connecting_globally/ * Website: www.globallycommunicate.com * Raúl Sánchez (co-author): https://www.linkedin.com/in/raul-h-sanchez/ * Dan Bullock (co-author): https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielbullock1/ * Rod Sánchez (illustrator): https://www.linkedin.com/in/rodasanchez/

Welcome back, Chris Gaither! Chris is a leadership coach, writer, and "career pivoter extraordinaire." Chis is somebody who listens to his own energy to make career decisions. Chris has tailored his coaching practice to work with sustainability leaders, an area where he is knowledgable, passionate, and impactful. We are talking with Chris about listening to and following our personal energy in both career decisions and life. Welcome, Chris! Since visiting us over a year ago, Chris feels like he took the craziness of 2020 to reflect and build a coaching/leadership practice that he loves. He has divorced, re-partnered, embraced single parenting, written, meditated, exercised, and processed all that the pandemic brought. We asked about Chris’s definition of personal energy. He realized that people would talk about wanting to follow a passion, but didn’t know what their passion was. In studying people, Chris realized that energy was a better gauge to follow. Early in his coaching career, someone asked Chris what makes a successful coaching session. He came up with an answer, although one he now recognizes was BS. She came back with advice for him to listen to his inner reaction to the session. If he ended the conversation with extra energy, it probably meant his client was jazzed as well. In order to follow the energy, we need to tune into it and connect our energy levels to our activities. Chris has clients do an energy audit of their calendar, printing out a calendar and drawing either up, neutral, or down arrows around each activity to see which activities bring energy and which are depleting. We all have to do some draining activities because we’re adults, but the goal is to do more that fills our energy and less that drains it. The funny thing is that what drains my energy might fill yours, so surround yourself with people who have complementary skills to keep everyone’s energies high. We asked Chris what he says to people who are depleted just by the nature of what's going on in their lives. Chris distinguishes managing energy vs following it in terms of managing and preventing burnout. Paying attention to the signals from your body; that's important to taking care of yourself. Taking things off your plate, outsourcing, asking for help, and seeing what is going well are also key. Reflecting on energy is helpful in identifying patterns, but how do you make changes once you see what gives you energy? Look at your ratios and add one thing that gives you energy. Try to get to parity and take small steps. We are wired to pick up on other people’s energy or moods. We carry it with us. Leaders’ energy affects their entire organization. Chris noticed that when he was working with sustainability leaders who felt frustrated, he started feeling the same way. When we show up with negative energy, others feel it and push back against it. To give your best, how are you showing up? Are you curious? Empathetic? Passionate? If you come in with positive energy, others will pick up on it and feel connected to you and your mission. We ask Chris what he tells people who are chronically frustrated. His response is to listen and ask what they are missing, what values they want to honor, and dig into what is making them unhappy. If you can structure your day so that you can reward yourself with the “good stuff,”,you can help bring in positivity. How do you assess a new role to see if the position will be fulfilling? Step 1: be clear on what you’re looking for. Step 2: look for roles that allow you to bring your strengths forward in terms of your goals. When people follow their energy, it’s contagious and they bring it with them wherever they go. (See https://www.greenbiz.com/article/we-recognize-our-purpose-our-thousand-watt-grins (Chris’s article on the "thousand-watt grin" from GreenBiz)). Chris tells us about his coaching journey and building his practice to focus on sustainability leaders. When he started coaching, he found himself helping people to deal with toxic cultures; this was hard because he couldn’t have an impact on actually improving those cultures. Chris followed the energy to work on his clients’ overall organizational health, working with teams on building healthier environments. Chris also looked at which of the people in his coaching brought him the most energy and saw that they all had sustainability in common. He enjoys working with people whose “why” is tied to the overall health of our world. In his journey, Chris was told that “purpose isn’t an exact address, it’s a neighborhood.” You don’t need to name it, you just need to work towards a moving target that changes with our knowledge and experience. Lastly, we tap into "values discovery." Brene Brown’s list of values is a great place to start exploring what is most important to us. It’s good to know who we are, and then to explore a company’s written and unwritten values, and how they hold themselves accountable to their values. If their values prevent you from living your values, it’s just not a fit. Make sure you can show up as your authentic self.

Welcome to our first podcast guests who are a father-son duo, Bob and Nick Slater, authors of the new book Look Out Above!This book is aimed at helping people enter the job market, pivot in their careers, and make the most out of the first few years of their careers. Bob is a professor from UNC & Duke, and his son, Nick, is an entrepreneur. We ask Bob and Nick about critical workplace skills that they teach; these are actually soft skills, not something that you’re taught in school. The book is aimed at teaching you how to contribute and stand out in the workforce, and Bob and Nick talk about the importance of the soft skills of writing, public speaking, leading, advocating, and presenting; and how these soft skills are the key to professional success. We talk about contributing as a key to showing and adding value at an organization. You want to produce and do well in any job you do, even the first jobs in your career path. We talk about the importance of listening and learning, but also contributing when you can add value. We debate learning vs contributing right away, and agree that when you can add a unique contribution, you should do so to show your value to the organization. Ask your boss about their preferences to help you understand the unwritten rules around contribution. If you’re quiet in a meeting, you can always follow up with your manager and tell them what you are learning and ask what their expectations are. Put the burden on yourself to know what is expected of you so that you can meet those expectations. Ask questions, show you were listening, talk about where you could contribute, and reiterate your excitement to be there. Where can people practice the five key workforce skills? The first place is in summer jobs, internships and non-conventional jobs where you can figure things out. Look for places where you can practice practical business writing; even taking online courses. Join a group like Toastmasters for public speaking, and participate in sports and organizations to acquire leadership skills in addition to taking classes. But classes are also useful. If you can, take classes in public speaking, communication, and writing. With any major, if you can find classes on personal finance, pitching ideas, and practical business skills, they will help no matter what your major is. Bob and Nick talk about the ability to pitch ideas, which seems a little “early” for new grads. Young professionals are being asked to do more sooner and junior people are expected to interact with clients and other employees, so being able to comfortably speak to groups and pitch ideas are huge differentiators. Demonstrating leadership skills are critical if you want to advance. When you’re the CEO of your own career, you find ways to differentiate, and soft leadership skills are the way to do it. Career change and growth during Covid has changed a bit. Nick says that Covid shows us that work can change in an instant. It’s critical to be ready for any change or to have the transferable skills to get a new job. He recommends using extra time for networking or building skills through online learning. We talk about the humanness of working from home, and helping to use communication skills in the WFH environment. Bob gave some really good advice around long term fit and paying attention to make sure you’re at a company where you want to spend time and can add value. He talks about unwritten rules of a company, observing who gets respect and why, and what differentiates people who are succeeding in the environment from those who aren’t. If you aren’t aligned with the attributes that make people at your company successful, it’s time to find a place where you are aligned. When you’re looking at a job, don’t forget that you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you. After school, pick a job that sounds interesting to you and try it out. If it doesn’t work for you, you can pivot and start over. Don’t get stuck in the first few years of your career; instead, intentionally make a change! Have the courage to explore. Bob and Nick Slater * The Book: (Look Out Above!)[https://bobandnickslater.com] * Twitter: (@lookoutabove)[https://twitter.com/lookoutabove] * Instagram (@lookoutabove.book)[https://www.instagram.com/lookoutabove.book] * Facebook: (@lookoutabovebook)[https://www.facebook.com/lookoutabovebook]

Today we’re talking about the world of recruiters: who they are and what you can expect from them. We’re deep diving into types of talent professionals to help you navigate your job search in a more educated way. Types of Recruiters Retained. Given money up front to start a search (fees are 25-40% of 1st year compensation). Usually very connected, know their industry, and able to deliver good results. Paid a retainer, some in the middle and some at the end. It’s about quality over quantity and expertise. They have exclusive relationships with their hiring managers and should be able to answer a lot of your questions. Contingent. Paid when they fill a job, and some employees are 100% commission. It’s a speed game because they only get paid if they get the final candidate in to the client first. Rewards to contingent recruiters don’t come from candidate experience, it comes from results. Often bad recruiter experiences comes from contingent searches because they are focused on fills only. RPO/Hourly Outside. Can be hourly or completely outsourced on a monthly basis (retainer/month). How close they are to the internal team depends on the relationship. The benefit of an RPO (Recruitment Process Outsourcing) is that the client can dial it up or back depending on need; this is a long term relationship based on success and knowing each other. For example, Liz’s company acts as an extension of the recruiting team with internal emails and following/making internal processes. Internal Recruiters. These are the people who work only for one company. They build employer brand, build and follow internal processes, and have deep relationships with hiring managers. These people can answer all of your questions -- they know the benefits, culture and hiring team. They will probably work with you once you’re hired, so be nice! How do you know who you’re talking to? ASK! Ask their role, their relationship to the company, and what they know and don’t know. Other recruiting roles: Recruiting managers and leads. Coordinators who do the scheduling. There may be sourcers who are all about finding the right talent for the job. There are also diversity professionals trying to bring more diversity to the company. The lead recruiter is usually your touch person -- they know where things are and it’s ok to check in with them. The more you tell them about where your search is, the more they can help push things along.

LIZ AND KAT ARE OFFERING CAREER COACHING!!! Our intro rate is $100/hr for BOTH of us! Email realjobtalk@gmail.com to schedule a 1:1 unrecorded session. Welcome Jennifer Mackin, author of the book Leaders Deserve Better, and a trainer who helps managers become better leaders. Jennifer considers herself a change agent dedicated to helping businesses and leaders be change agents for the greater good. 2020 forced leaders to reflect and change, which became a tough opportunity for Jennifer. She had to pivot from face-to-face to virtual, and has had to embrace change. We asked Jennifer what leadership means to her. She thinks of leaders whose job is to develop and lead others. She refers to people who others listen to as influencers, but in her work, she is working with people who have direct management responsibilities over other employees. Jennifer found that most people are put into leadership roles without any leadership training, and then they struggle to lead effectively. What causes people to struggle? They don’t know how to coach, manage performance and do regular work with their team. BUT, the issue is also in the c-suite where leaders aren’t tying activities like people management and growth into business goals. Not only are they not training their leaders to lead, they’re not helping their people grow or tying their entire team into the success of the business. Leaders of leaders need to drive an environment of learning, practice and reinforcement within our organizations. Leaders tend to delegate and be task oriented, but not think about overall succession, people and skill growth. Sharing new knowledge and skills, especially in a virtual environment, is the key to showing how effective employees are in the growth in the company. Before raising your hand for an official leadership role, take a look at who you are, what drives you, and understand the requirements of the role within your organization. After knowing what roles are possible, create a development plan for yourself to get yourself to where you need to be. Talk with your current leaders to ask them what to do to get to where you want to go- drive your career! Look at others who have grown into leadership roles before you- what did they do? Talk to people, get feedback on what you need to do as well as get an understanding of what you will need to do to move where you want to go. What does Jennifer see in the best teams she works with? What competencies go across organizations? Besides being strategic and ethical, the best leaders know how to drive strategy through and across their teams. They care about their people and understand how to tie business needs with people needs and people growth. It’s complex, and that’s why people like Jennifer are so important for leaders to learn from. Caring about the people and business and tying them together, and fitting all of the pieces together, celebrating differences, is what the strongest leaders do. In interviews, when looking for good leadership at a company, see how you’re treated, how they talk about the team, and ask: what skills are valued in each role and each group at the company? Do they care about your questions and do they want to learn about you? Intentionality is key - we’re all learning, but if someone’s intentions are good and they admit what they’re working on, they have leadership potential. Being present in conversations is so important, as is asking how someone is doing, or mentioning something they talked about before. Being seen by your leadership is a big key in happiness and engagement at work. As a leader, thinking about the combination of wellness, productivity and outcomes is key. When you’re trying to move in your organization, you don’t want to be a suck up, and it’s important to document your successes, celebrate others, and make sure your leader knows what you’ve contributed and where you want to go. Getting a mentor is important to driving your career and can help you understand what the next stage may look like. A mentor can be outside of your company or inside. It’s not automatic - it’s a relationship that gets built over time based on trust. When the mentee has the intention to get the most out of the relationship possible, the relationship can really bloom. Being a proactive mentee allows you to learn the most from your mentor. During the pandemic, the strongest leaders have increased communication, asking people 1:1 what they need, talking with the team about the business and growth, and constantly taking new information and asking how that will affect their people. Getting people involved in the changes involving business direction and encouraging transparency and how changes effect everyone is important to long term success. Website: jennifermackin.com (https://jennifermackin.com/) Twitter: @jmackin70 (https://twitter.com/jmackin70) Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferolivermackin/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/jennifer.mackin.18/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheOliverGroup

Quitting is an art- there’s a right way (leave with your head high and relationships strong) and a wrong way (think bull in a china shop or loud ranting with everyone breathing a sigh of relief when you’re gone) to quit your job. In this episode, Liz and Kat walk you through the delicate process of quitting, how to deal with a counter offer, and how to handle your final days at a job. This episode was inspired by a friend of Kat’s who was quitting his job and was ready to give his almost-ex irrefutable. Have your “quitting notice” written. Set the goal of staying professiinonal and go out with respect. To break it down: You don’t want your boss to hear that you’re leaving through the rumor mill. Make sure to tell them first. It may be hard to keep the news from your work bestie, especially if everyone’s talking about leaving. The “I’m quitting, these are my last 2 weeks” conversation should be with you and your boss first. Set up the meeting with your boss asap after signing your offer. Give your 2 week notice as soon as you can meet with your boss. Tell them you need to talk for a few minutes, and you can even tell them it’s urgent. If it can’t happen, you can go up the chain, but give every opportunity to quit to your direct manager. Try to do it in person, but if they force you to email it, you can do that, but don’t prolong the quitting moment. We role play the conversation to make sure it stays professional and make sure to remove the emotion. Remember, you never know when you’re going to run into these people again in your career, so you want to make a professional lasting impression. Counter offers: we’re anti 99% of the time. Why can you only get things on your way out vs when you ask as an active employee? Usually underlying issues won’t be fixed with a counter offer. Once you’ve given notice once, an employer can question your loyalty, and employees are shown to leave within 1-2 years anyway. Trust issues and resentment build up on both sides, and you can potentially burn bridges. If you go looking for another offer to get a pay raise, DO NOT accept the other offer if you’re really looking for a counter. See this article for more. Fact vs emotional reason for quitting. For example, “the commute is 2 hours less/day”- fact vs “you’ve been a bad manager and blown off our meetings”- emotional. “Our processes are backwards” is subjective. Stick to facts that can’t be refuted since you’re trying not to ruffle feathers on your way out. Keep those bridges intact. If your HR team does an exit interview, if you sense they are open, that is the place where you can share in a constructive way to help make change. Let them guide the interview and answer the questions you’re asked. While it’s confidential, remember that what you share can be shared with your almost-past boss etc, so make sure you’re fact based and constructive knowing it could be repeated. Your resignation letter: short, factual, “my last day is”, and thank you. That’s it. After you quit….the longest last 2 weeks ever. Work with your boss on the announcement and transition plan, but be clear that you want to let people know and hand off work asap. Keep reminding yourself to stay classy and not leave dead bodies on your way out. Talk with your boss about the “party line” whether the decision was theirs or yours. Do a good job transitioning. Clean out your desk. Clear your computer. Make yourself available to the people taking over your work- tell them to call or email you with questions. Building that bridge brings comfort to the team members you’re leaving. Another note- no poaching! It may breach a non-compete, but also goes along with the go out classy rule. Unless your company is going bankrupt, don’t reach out to poach people. Follow our guidance, and reach out for coaching, but remember to walk out on your last day proud of how you ended things and ensuring that doors are open for future opportunities. Good luck!

Welcome to L’areal Lipkins, a sales trainer and expert in goal setting, vision boards, and how to make your goals a reality by adopting the right plan and mindset. L’areal does NOT believe in SMART goals (specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and timebound) , and we get right into it asking about her approach to goal setting. L’areal is a “recovering SMART goals user,” and she pivoted to her CLARITY method when she saw clients coming back year after year with the same goals. CLARITY stands for: C- crystal clear L- linked to a bigger goal (like your company’s or your boss’ or a step towards a bigger personal goal) A- actionable R- realistic I- important T- time bound Y- tied to your core “why” “Your why is irrelevant unless you know WHY your why is important.” You have to go deep to figure out why something is important to you to find your emotional connection to your goal in order to make the sacrifices needed to make it happen. If you don’t have the vision of where you are going, you don’t have enough oomph behind your why. We talk about flexibility, and how you need to adjust goals and not have a 30 year plan. Where do I want to be 1-2 years from now vs 30 years from now. For L’areal, she knew she wanted to own her own business, but she didn’t know what form that would take. We talk about how important it is for leaders to bring in their people to co-create goals and make sure everyone’s goals feed into the company goals to bring the company to achieve success. We talk about sales goals and aligning sales and personal career goals. Sales goals are usually tied to revenue, but we talk about how a certain revenue target will help them to achieve personal goals- whether that is a new house, a working spouse or other personal goals. We then go bigger picture and learn about other people’s compelling “why” around their career driver. L’areal wrote a book called A Woman With Vision (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCLH5GD/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?encoding=UTF8&btkr=1). She instructs people to divide their yearly goals into quarters, and then uses her CLARITY method to dive deeply into what each goal looks like and what it will take to get there. Focusing on quarterly goals helps L’areal’s clients prevent being overwhelmed, and allows them to break goals into achievable chunks. Having a visual representation in front of you helps you stay focused, but also having the whole team share their goals helps teams get to know each other. For example, 4 people on a team L’areal worked with wanted to buy a house, so they brought in a home buying expert to help…. Increasing transparency, especially when times are tougher, is hard as a leader, but it helps keep the team aligned and help everyone get on the same page to success. Especially if there are discrepancies between different teams at a company, helping everyone understand each other’s needs and struggles allows everyone to set goals that lead everyone to success. Gratitude is a powerful mindset tool, and when we need to shift our goals (like we all did in 2020), we look to gratitude and our core beliefs to reset or adjust our goals. Want a tool to help? Here's L'areal's free tools page (https://www.awomanwithvision.com/freebies). Want to changed a fixed mindset? Remind yourself (like L’areal does with her 4 year old), “I can figure it out!" Believing in yourself and your ability to overcome will help you move to a growth mindset and get rid of your negative beliefs. How do I shift my mindset? We think 55-75,000 thoughts a dayand 80% of them are negatively pre-dispositioned, so if we’re not actively working on positivity, we could allow those negative thoughts to take over. We have to identify our negative thoughts and then find the positive, rooted in truth and then repeat it as an affirmation. It takes practice, but eventually you can do it in real time. L’areal loves the image of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, shedding old skins to grow into our new selves. She also talks about Vision, Goals, and Rewards. A goal is not a handbag -- a goal is something that moves you forward and a reward is something you can get when a goal is met. Rewarding yourself is important to avoid burnout and grind. Another important thing about setting goals that align with your vision is to identify and make a plan for any potential roadblocks. Roadblocks often derail us from our goals, but if we have a plan for us, we can overcome them with ease. L'areal's web site: A Woman with Vision (https://www.awomanwithvision.com/freebies) L'areal Lipkin on Instagram: @awomanwithvision (https://www.instagram.com/awomanwithvision/) L'areal Lipkin's book: A Woman With Vision (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RCLH5GD/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?encoding=UTF8&btkr=1)

Welcome Jason Levin, founder and CEO of Ready, Set, Launch. We’re talking with Jason about launching a job search in a virtual world. Jason grew up with a happy family whose lives changed dramatically when his father lost the only job he had ever had in New York's garment district. Suddenly Jason and his brothers were the kids getting free lunch in school, and the family was struggling. Jason was always the person who would help with mock interviews and resume review in school; later his MBA program asked him to be a coach, and that became the foundation of his career. Job searching has always been a mindset game, but with Covid, it’s about maintaining the mindset to get through the day -- and to deal with the job uncertainty as well as career and financial uncertainty. Jason tells people to follow their energy; for him, he needs to laugh, for someone else, it might be sports. He wants people to approach change from a place of strength vs a place of fear. His advice is to work through roadblocks to focus on the good behaviors you do have. We discuss avoiding things that suck your energy in order to build your energy towards the positive. He distinguishes between people who help you and people who mean well... Identifying the people who help vs the ones who project onto you without help allows you to know who to reach out to, and who will build you up. Jason reminds his clients that “Waiting is the Hardest Part." You can do things while you wait, but waiting is part of the process. It’s easy to tell yourself stories while you wait -- to imagine what is going on or why the process is taking a long time; but instead, keep trucking and don’t try to figure out why things are dragging. Your goal is the next job, and spending time wondering doesn’t help you towards your goal. Ready, Set, Launch is Jason’s career coaching business. He uses the principles of consumer marketing for outplacement, resume writing and speaking. He helps people go from point A to point B. He sees career decisions as purchasing decisions -- a two sided marketplace. One service Jason offers is Outplacement, which is a benefit given to people when they are laid off to help them transition to their next role. If you get this benefit, USE IT! It’s paid for by your current employer to help you find your next position, and it is free career coaching. We asked Jason what he is telling people about job search after a layoff during this pandemic. His first piece of advice was to write out what gives you energy, strength, and joy, and then to practice articulating those strengths. He looks at industry, employer, and role around where you want to go, and having the pitch that addresses all three. Once you define what you want to do, then get your pitches in order. Number 1 rule: no complaining. Number 2: know how much time you have to spend looking and hold yourself to it. Number 3: Lists are your friend; they help you stick to your plan. Jason tells people to put together a list of people who have been most influential in your career and reach out to ask advice, which may just lead to jobs (vs asking for jobs, which may lead to advice). Networking will get your resume seen faster and by the right people, more than "posting and praying." Jason says to spend the majority of your time networking, and then when you see a posting, think of who you can network with to get close to the job. If you have 60-70% of the job spec, you need to apply by seeing if you know someone at the company. Employee referral programs are awesome, so are Diversity/Equity/Inclusion officers. Employees want to refer you and get the bonus, and DEI want to hire you because it helps their numbers. These folks are your ins! “Your life is not in danger because of this interview." This is what Jason tells people who need to psych themselves up for interviews. Be yourself and find people you like and who like you. Do your homework so you feel good about you and you feel prepared. Be ready to answer what’s driving you to want to work in this job at this company. You have to want the job; there are plenty of people who do. We asked Jason about Covid’s impact on job searches. Industries like hospitality have been hard hit, and also the hiring process across many industries seems to take longer. People with more experience adding value when they can articulate their value, but new grads with less experience sometimes struggle when entering this kind of job market. Jason's site: readysetlaunch.net (readysetlaunch.net) Jason's email (mailto:Jason@readysetlaunch.net)

Dr. David Campt is a national expert on inclusion and intergroup dialogue. David has worked with groups from large corporations to the White House, and has appeared on The Daily Show. He speaks about about how we talk with each other, and how to help people come together. In 4th grade, David had a teacher tell him that “People are more alike than they are different,” and in his critical work, David shows audiences how to use dialogue in order to connect and come together. David tells us about how the world has changed over the last 20 years. When he was in the White House in 1998, black people took on the unpaid job of trying to talk to white people about racism. Now black people are saying, “You do the work -- it’s not up to us.” And 55% of white people think that racism experienced by white people is just as important as the racism experienced against black people. The work isn't helping people to understand the importance of that question, it's to hel the 45% of people who do believe racism is an issue to talk with the 55% who do not -- that's the basis of David’s important work. David encourages conversation, and has been inspired by the growth of the ally movements across all areas. We talked about "race method"and "reach method": in difficult conversations, in order to be productive, you want to do two things up front. First, move from facts and beliefs to experiences; and secondly, ABC: "Agree Before Challenging," meaning establish common ground before inviting people to new thinking. RACE is David's acronym for racial conversations, and REACH is for other conversations. R - Reflect (get centered) and think of stories you want to tell. A - Ask questions (vs attacking).... ask about their experience (vs their beliefs) that inspires their point of view. C - Connect; find something you can agree with in their position and tell a story about that. E - Expand their view... by telling another story where you had a different experience R - Reflect E - Enquire (British spelling) A - Agree C - Confess H - Harmonize David wants people to invite each other to a place of new thinking vs coercing or forcing them to it. David’s methods have people first coming to agreement before they try to teach people to think differently. According to David, people on the Left are “too woke” and treat the people on the Right like they don’t know anything. In David’s book, Compassion Transforms Contempt, he talks about moving the country forward by treating each other with more compassion, which is more persuasive. Compassion is key to personal change. Moving towards something vs fighting something you hate is so much more effective. If you want to be effective, finding common ground is a good thing. These are skills to practice, but you have to want to do it. 2020 has been an eye-opening year in terms of race. We’ve opened our eyes to experiences like George Floyd’s gruesome murder, unconscious bias, and mircoaggressions (or as David says, Inadvertent Dignity Violations), and now it’s up to each of us to do better. David’s tips can be helpful in this. Moving on to our work lives -- the key to building and maintaining diverse teams? We have to support people in a reasonable way so that they can be themselves. We asked about David’s approach to handling unconscious bias and microaggression situations with peers and leaders at work, and how to handle them as a bystander. David’s #1 strategy is to say to either person, not that one person is wrong or even that you're offended. Instead, David recommends: “When [the thing you're bringing up] was said, I felt weird.” This phrase doesn’t make presumptions about how someone should feel, or show malicious intent, but instead invites people to talk. This can work with both peers and leaders, and can be followed with, “I don’t believe you intended that” or “I’m not sure how the other person felt.” How are companies improving diversity hiring? David talked about removing diversity markers from resumes to promote equality. He also talked about the importance of employee resource groups. To make these effective, top level management must say they are important, and must train people to be mentors and allies outside of their own group. Lastly, David believes in high quality unconscious bias training that shows that everyone is subject to biased thinking. We feel more comfortable when we understand that everyone has bias. Employee surveys are are an important too, and are important, but looking at the top level numbers can be misleading; instead, breaking down the data by group can allow up to come to a deeper understanding to create a workplace that works for everyone. For executives to get DE&I sensitive, they may need private coaching, because they can’t be completely honest about their own biases, struggles and concerns in front of employees. Executives also need to support diverse hires in building up their skills in order to help those colleagues feel welcome, Telling people the potential you see in them, and supporting them, can help them reach that potential from a place of empathy. If a manager hires a person to diversify the team, but there is a skills gap that can be learned, it is up to the manager to empower the person to fill that skills gap in order to help them succeed. What about creating roles for diverse candidates with relevant experience? David’s a believer in that strategy, because diverse teams make companies and products better. As long as it’s a quality role for a relevant candidate, be creative to add diversity. As we closed out the podcast, we asked the hard question about healing our nation. David encourages people to find ways to come together, and reach out to people who voted differently and find that common ground. Own up to the transgressions we made to the other side, and admit your part in the polarization. He asks us to reach out to friends with different opinions and ask questions and not put yourself in a position to argue. Learn and understand if you can handle it, and call out different viewpoints. You can start with figuring out something we all want, or where we all want to go, and figure out how we can come together to recognize that shared value of completing this project together. “If a plane is going to fly, it needs a left wing and a right wing.” David Campt's website: davidcampt.com (https://www.davidcampt.com) David on Twitter: @thedialogueguy (https://twitter.com/thedialogueguy) White Ally Toolkit: whiteallytoolkit.com (https://www.whiteallytoolkit.com)

This week we welcome Joep Piscaer, who has grown his career by moving up the ranks in a technical organization, from sys admin to CTO, and now is an independent consultant focused on creating content in the devops space. Throughout his career, Joep has struggled with Imposter Syndrome, and despite numerous indications to the contrary, he has had to work on how to control his impulses to hold himself back. We invited him on for this very open conversation to help listeners understand that imposter syndrome can happen to any and all of us. Joep’s definition of Imposter Syndrome is “the feeling that you’re not as good as the people around you”. He realized that he compares his life with other people’s Instagram lives, and has learned how to use his imposter syndrome to drive success. Imposter Syndrome rears its head when you’re asked to be an authority. Joep knows that when he’s doing something new, he’s going to feel that Imposter voice. When he hears that Imposter message in his head, Joep now leans in to do the thing. So if he’s worried about going to a conference, he goes. And then he writes down all the compliments he gets and reads them to fight off the negativity. His hope is that by reading positivity, it will combat the negativity. Joep teaches about giving compliment; they’re not all created equal! Make compliments specific, timely, and show that you’re paying attention to the person you’re complimenting. We compare Joep’s compliments to the Nurtured Heart parenting approach, both to show people when they are seen., but also, if you don’t mean it, don’t say it. False compliments are the worst! Learning to give compliments helps with receiving them, but sometimes it’s not easy. Joep still struggles. He writes them down to take the emotion out and make it into words, which are easier to absorb. No matter what’s happening in your head when you get a compliment, the best response is always, “thank you”. We all have an internal measuring stick, and people with Imposter Syndrome have unrealistic measuring sticks. Joep talks about shifting it a tiny bit every day, and how that will help you retrain your brain and your measuring stick. Our bodies react to imposter syndrome as well, and Joep recommends physical activity and getting away from the technology or social sites that make you feel like an imposter. Joep fought imposter syndrome with drones; he started flying his drones and learned to get better at it over time. He’s now learning to cook and he’s exploring getting better at things as hobbies, where the stakes are not as big as in his career. When he saw himself pushing himself to be the best at his hobbies, he challenged himself to pull back and just enjoy the learning and process of doing the activity. And in his hobbies, practicing at failing in is one of the keys! When you feel like an imposter, being vulnerable with yourself and others is even more difficult. Joep says that vulnerability is about knowing what you need and when you need it. Joep now works with a coach. and we talk with him aboout learning to practicie vulnerability without destroying trust. Joep also relied on his Board of Advisors to help him explore vulnerability without feeling too vulnerable. Joep Piscaer on Twitter: @jpiscaer (https://twitter.com/jpiscaer) Joep’s NextBuild talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl21zya4i0g

This week we welcome Adam Bertram, aka Adam the Automator. Adam wrote a post called “I told my boss I quit and……” which went viral, so we invited Adam to join us. Our goal for having Adam on RJT is to learn from his personal journey of career discovery. Adam’s a tech pressional/sys admin, blogger, and content creator. We asked Adam to share his journey before he quit. At the beginning of Adam’s career, he hopped jobs for money. He started a side hustle selling used books on Amazon. With the freedom of making extra money, he realized that he could take his side hustle contracts and make them his full time job. Adam started taking contracts writing blog posts, which he loved, and doing projects, which he loved, which led him to realize that he could build a satisfying career around writing and project contracts. We talk through multiple income streams and balancing different roles, family and more. Adam gives his wife a lot of credit for helping him to focus on work by managing their home and family. He is conscious at his different roles: contract/consulting for automation/devops, content creation and community building, and personal brand enhancement. When he looks at them, Adam makes sure he’s consistent and knows what the vision he's heading for in the end. Adam brings his talents into everything he learns. For example, he’s started learning about stock trading and he already started a blog go share his process and help others benefit. Building content helps Adam build his brand as a content developer. Adam has multiple resumes: writing/content creation, consulting and systems administration. He focuses on different roles for each resume so that he can find a variety of work and have more open options. When we know our patterns, we can make choices that work for us. When Adam gets bored, he finds something new and gets obsessed and tries to learn everything about it. Knowing his own patterns allows Adam to know when he needs to pick up something new, and also that he’s going to need lots of time to dive in deeply. Exploring being your own boss with Adam, we learned about his entrepreneurial spirit. Adam looked at his happiness when he had great jobs and still wasn’t happy, and realized he needed to make a big change to working for himself. Knowing this, he realized he needs the freedom of consulting and building his own schedule. Knowing himself and that he’s “unemployable” has helped him tailor his career and consultancy. The move to consultancy happened by dabbling in consulting while working full time. His past as a job hopper helped Adam know that he CAN find a job when he needs to. Having an exit plan helped Adam to navigate the unknown. The boundaries and parameters around the exit plan help to assess. Not everyone has freedom to decide on work without money being the driver, but Adam has worked hard to build his FU account in order to make the best personal choices for his career without the pressue of needing the next paycheck. He chooses work, clients and colleagues based on work and team fit vs paychecks. His happiness is tied to his ability to choose the work he does. Adam advice to others who wanted to get started is to monetize a hobby. He started selling books on Ebay and Amazon, and then started a blog about how to do it, and then wrote an ebook, which became a lucrative side business that had nothing to do with his day job. We discussed using community to power a career. Adam has always been a documenter. He blogged about what he did, and used it to help him manage projects. He ranked on a post in Google and heard that he was helping others, which really motivated him to be a part of the community and make connections. The connections grew at conferences, on Twitter, on Linkedin, and then as he grew as a MSFT MVP and learned from others. He saw his impact grow and learned so much from others that it motivated him to continue to share and learn from his communities. When starting a blog, it’s all about creating content and not overthinking. Over time you can look at things like SEO, but it’s about writing and sharing and engaging other writers to build an audience. Adam also advises writing on all types of different sites to make sure you spread yourself out to get a bigger audience to link to your blog. Adam on Twitter: @abertram (https://twitter.com/adbertram) Adam's blog: adamtheautomator.com (https://adamtheautomator.com)

We have a letter!!! Our writer (Ready to Be Independent) asks about being a consultant: what does it take, what do they need to do, and what is the pros and cons list? We break it down. Some of the things to consider as you're looking at making a leap like this: to consider are: inconsistent revenue as a consultant vs a regular paycheck and salary. What’s your brand and what do you uniquely offer? Are you ok with instability? If you’re a consultant, you’re a small business person and you have to assess your risk tolerance. Are you ready to take on the expenses of running your business? We talk about doing soul searching around risk tolerance and not knowing where the money is coming from. You have to believe in yourself. It’s time for your Board of Advisors to fish around to see what they would hire you for. What’s your pitch? Put together a business plan: sometimes people do side gigs to build cash and a customer base. The costs are there, and you want to be in a place of financial stability so that it’s not financially uncomfortable. Be clear on your mission, vision and values to make sure you can decide who you are so that can communicate that to your customers. Think about marketing and if you’re going to be comfortable with your marketing plan. Are you ready to go into a pitch meeting? If you can’t sell yourself, don’t go into consulting. Rely on your experts. Know what you’re good at and who you will need to hire (attorney, accountant, etc.). Are you organized, consistent and reliable? If it’s not you, you need to have others do it for you, Figure out how to make it work or decide if being independent isn’t for you. Something to think about: as a consultant, you’re an outsider and not actually on the team. Sometimes you’re left out of conversations. Consulting gets lonely. Not everyone’s made for that and it can be stressful. Also, vacations as a consultant usually mean a dip in revenue, and client work still needs to get done. So as a consultant, you don’t have a boss, but you also don’t have co-workers to cover for you, or even to have coffee with and talk about what you're working on. Career growth is possible as a consultant. It’s about relationships you make and the value you deliver. How strategic are you and what value do you bring? You can grow in many areas based off your core competencies. If you’re not want to be where you want to be professionally, it may not work. Kat’s favorite part of being a consultant is working from everywhere, and being able to see if a role will be a right fit for her and her client. Liz likes that she’s had an impact on a number of companies according to her values. Thanks for the question, Ready to be Independent. So listeners, are you ready to make the leap and be a consultant? As always, feel free to reach out to ask your questions or talk through your current situation.

The US election is heating up, and Liz and Kat want to help you navigate politics, voting, and all related topics at work. First of all, know your company’s rules around voting and if you have time off to vote. Make a plan to vote! And do it within your employer’s rules. Know that social media is public, and if you are choosing to be political on social media, our advice is to be as minimalist as your integrity allows and you feel that the situation calls far. Being aware of what you’re putting out there and that your words can get back to your co-workers. If your opinions will make someone uncomfortable around you, it can affect your career. Our goal for discourse at work on all topics is to allow people to be who they are, to not shame anyone, and to feel comfortable participating as you choose to in company events, like company representation at parades and protests. And at the same time not to shame someone for not participating in social activism. If politics come up at work, you should come from a place of inquiry, understanding and conversation -- rather than a place of defensiveness. Try something like this: “I haven’t heard great things about that candidate; can you tell me why you like them?”. As far as your workspace environment, try to keep it neutral at work. And try not to check the news at work, especially if it's something that's likely to rile you up or make you anxious or distracted or otherwise nutty. To create a postitive impact, rather than just adding ot the flames of political fighting, try to focus on how alike we are, and what we have in common -- vs zooming in our differences. People who pick fights unnecessarily yat work can be assholes. Our asshole episode- see RJT Episode 6 for more tips on how to work with assholes (https://realjobtalk.com/6), but don’t be one! Our basic rules around politics at work: * Ask open questions about political and policy topics * Stay away from the biggies like abortion and same sex marriage if that topic is going to make someone uncomfortable * Walk away or change the topic if you feel uncomfortable. * Don't poke the bear. Or ask someone "why do you support xYZ?" * Be honest, but answer with tact and facts. Try "Education is my hot button belief, and I believe that candidate XYZ will do more to support modernizing education than the other candidates, so they have my vote." instead of "Only idiots will vote for candidate ABC, " * Don't try to win a debate... you're most likely not going to change someone's mind in either Slack or the break room at work. If you're in the US, make sure you have a plan to vote!

Both Kat and Liz are BIG fans of Brene Brown’s Dare to Lead. This book is about leadership; we adhere to the belief that we’re all leaders of our own lives and careers, and so we think that this book applies to everyone. Having the ability to "rumble," whether it’s in your personal or work life, will help you authentically connect with people around you to solve hard problems and come together with shared goals. Brene Brown defines rumble like this (https://brenebrown.com/blog/2019/05/01/lets-rumble/): A rumble is a discussion, conversation, or meeting defined by a commitment to lean into vulnerability, to stay curious and generous, to stick with the messy middle of problem identification and solving, to take a break and circle back when necessary, to be fearless in owning our parts, and, as psychologist Harriet Lerner teaches, to listen with the same passion with which we want to be heard. Having an uncomfortable conversation? It takes courage, but to set the stage and then lean into the uncomfortable topic, establishing trust and safety -- that's what builds a stronger team. Setting the stage as kind and respectful helps to alleviate some anxiety, and knowing that everyone’s trying to do the best for the company helps with that. Brene’s rumbling context makes it so much easier. When you’re a leader and you see an issue and you don’t address it because it’s uncomfortable, it just grows. You must address uncomfortable situations. If things get heated, it’s ok to schedule time the next day, step away, think it over, and come back together again tomorrow. Stopping before you do damage is important. Take breaths to calm yourself when you get stressed. Taking a minute before a big meeting for a technique like box breathing will help you stay centered and calm. (Box breathing = inhale for 4 seconds; hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four.) You can use a technique like this to transition between moments and contexts that may be stressful, especially when working at home and potentially multi-tasking. Your family commitments are important. When planning a rumble, it’s important to talk about what you need to talk about. Otherwise the person’s imagination can get carried away, and they can get unnecessarily worked up for no reason. If Liz tells Kat that they need to rumble about RJT marketing, it’s a lot different than saying “we need to rumble about something.” If you’re only listening to the voice in your head, you’re not open, and it’s important to be neutral and quieting the voices in your head, while being open to being wrong. Be both open and solutions-focused. Rumbling isn’t just for careers; it can be personal too. Approaching personal issues as open-minded and solutions-oriented will help build trust and help strengthen any relationship. Brene talks about values and how we bring values into everything we do, and challenges us to pick two core values out of her list of 50. After a lot of thought, Kat picked service to others and integrity and Liz picked authenticity and reliability. Brene also challenges her readers to pick times that they were aligned with and also against their core values. We talk about how being more aligned with values is easier as we get older. Understanding someone’s values helps you understand and appreciate their perspective; diverse values and perspectives at the table help move businesses forward. Understanding those viewpoints make you better. When you show others who you are, it helps you to grow. Trust is earned in all relationships, including atwork. Doing what we say we’re going to do establishes trust. Asking for help is critical to success in Brene Brown’s world; it shows people you’re working on it and you’re focused on doing what’s needed to get things done. Gossip is toxic. If someone gossips about someone else, they’ll gossip about you, and then trust is lost. Failurd happens, and it’s uncomfortable. But through the creative process, failure happens in order create and grow. Growth mindset celebrates failure, and if you communicate about trying something new, and you fall, own it and iterate. Check out any of Brené Brown's books, but if you're interested in how her work applies to your work, we especially recommend Dare to Lead (https://daretolead.brenebrown.com).

On this episode, we welcome to Corliss Jackson, the founder and CEO of Federal Job Results and author of Cracking the Federal Job Code. Corliss is a speaker and panelist, and her company mission it to help people find jobs with the US federal government. Corliss started as a consultant after college; she decided that she wanted to work for the government but didn’t know how. She figured it out, and she learned a lot about what to do -- and what not to do in the process. She also realized that many other people would need help in figuring out the federal government application process. And so she started her firm, which focuses on helping people transfer into the federal sector. Federal jobs are working for the US Department of Something-or-other. 85% of the jobs are outside of Washington DC, and there are regional and state agencies for each department. The most sought after skills are the same as you find in the corporate sector. There are positions in finance, healthcare, IT, project management, librarians…..It’s a great place to look for security, camaraderie, and if you want to be a part of a team. One place to look is usajobs.com; there are 13,000 positions open across the US on a given day. Federal Government has to spend a certain amount on hiring, and now has extra money from Covid needs (healthcare, finance, HR….). The Small Business Admin has hired 6000 people nationwide over the last pandemic to help distribute Covid money. What’s it like to land a Federal job? It’s VERY different from corporate. Corliss helps people understand the process and move their resume from a corporate sector resume (1-2 pages) to a Federal sector resume (5+ pages). She helps people understand what they need to show on their application package to be successful in the process. 90-95% of people who apply to Federal jobs get turned down because they don’t get through the process. Sometimes people don’t know which jobs to apply for, so Corliss helps them to target the right choices and then tailor their resume for the right job. HR people in the Federal sector want to see how you respond to the Self Assessment questionnaire. You have to fill that out by bragging on yourself. Once you get through that filter, HR will scan your resume for the right keywords. It takes 4-8 weeks to get through the resume review process. You then get put into three categories -- no, middle, or yes. Sometimes your resume can get shared within an agency, but often you will need to apply to multiple roles. Sharing only happens within an agency and when you’re the best qualified. We asked if it hurts you to not have Federal experience, and Corliss said that it’s good to bring your transferrable skills to the Federal government. Most roles and skillsets are not only Federal. Once you have assembled a good Federal job seeker package, apply to as many Federal jobs as you can, so you get as many interviews as you can. Have a great package, know what you want to target, and then apply across the board. Who should call Corliss? Someone who is open to coaching will do well. Corliss takes information and helps clients build a Federal resume retrofitting experience into what the agencies need to see. They coach people on what to do, and when and why to do it in order to successfully navigate the HR process. Federal interviews are different, and Corliss helps you to navigate the interview process, answer questions well, and then negotiate salary and vacation time. You have to negotiate in a certain way, and many people leave 10-20k on the table because they don’t ask. Hot skills in the Federal government: IT, security, contractor. Government loves certifications -- even more than degrees. It can take 2-18 months to land a Federal job. Interviewing takes a lot of time, but after you pass that, you go through an extensive background check to make sure you aren’t a threat to the federal government. They give you a tentative offer while they do the background check, and this takes at least 2 months. If you need a clearance, it takes a lot longer. Most of Corliss’ clients land in 4-6 months because she helps them to avoid landmines. Corliss advises you not to leave you current job until you have a start date, and even then you need to be careful. You’re not a Federal employee until you take your oath of office. During an administration shift, all jobs freeze at the beginning of a new President’s term, but there is always hiring going on for when the freeze is over. It’s stable once you get in. Referrals are good in the Federal land, but you need to be on the Most Qualified list. Read Corliss’s book, Cracking the Federal Job Code, and find her online at FederalJobResults.com (http://www.federaljobresults.com/).

Vacation is important for relaxation and connection, even in times of COVID. Our goal is to encourage you to take vacation, especially during this strange and difficult period. It takes trust and confidence to take time away from your desk, but we want you to unplug and take vacation, even if it means you aren’t leaving your house. Plan vacation around times when your job/group aren’t busy so you don’t end up having to log on. For example, if you’re in sales, plan it for the 1st week of the quarter, not the last. If you have a vacation planned before you start a new job, let them know in the offer process. Don’t plan a new vacation in the first 3-6 months in your job. When you’re new, ask your boss or colleague when a good time is to take vacation. Plan what you’re going to do and block your calendar. ESPECIALLY for a staycation. Don’t check email and act as if you’re in a place without internet access. Don’t try to vacation around meetings. Setting boundaries around vacation time is important, but managing calendars are critical. Clear your calendar, declining or rescheduling meetings for when you are gone. Managers- TAKE YOUR VACATION. Your employees are watching, and if they don’t see you take vacation, they’ll think they can’t. Lead by example. Hand off your stuff while you’re out. Ask someone you trust to cover for you. The more thorough you are, the less likelihood you will get called while they’re out. When you run a business, it’s very hard to fully unplug. You can do some things like having a good out of office saying when you’re out and when you’ll check email and respond to urgent emails. Liz checks emails twice a day to block, tackle and delegate, but does not do any projects while on vacation. Checking emails allows her to relax and know that her business is in good shape. Turn off Slack and all communication tools in vacation mode. Our rule: phones are only for camera use and communication with people who you are with. Set expectations for anyone you think may need you. Coming back: keep your vacation mojo by cleaning up your inbox before your first day back or blocking the 1st half day, prioritizing important projects and making your to-do list. Read emails top down to know what’s been handled. Remember that most of the emails will have been handled by the person covering for you, so look at them as an FYI. Have a meeting first thing to talk with the person covering for you to get questions answered about what you missed. When you’re covering for someone, at the end of their vacation time, send a “Here’s What you Missed” email to catch them up quickly. Vacations are important to fill your tank, take care of yourself, set example for others around you, and connect with your loved ones. You’re taking time off for you, and no matter where you go, use the time to rejuvinate and reenergize, even if it’s in la backyard.