Nat Chat

Happy Monday! Glad to have you back for another episode of Nat Chat, an audio version of my newsletter Monday Medley. Join me in recapping my best finds from across the Internet with topics ranging from nutrition, finding good business partners, and sleep tech. Make sure to subscribe to my newsletter if you prefer a readable copy of this podcast! Resources mentioned: 6 Big Nutrition Lessons (0:18) How to Migrate from Notion to Roam (0:26) The Almanack of Naval Ravikant (0:31) The Brain (0:41) White Oak Pastures (0:48) Their Most Popular Items (1:12) Cat Lavery (1:21) BestSelf (1:23) In one extensive article (1:37) Sleep Tech video (2:05) Youtube Masterclass(2:19) How Ali balances his double life (2:37) The Hero's Journey(2:45) Intermittent Fasting (2:55) Make Chicken Great Again (3:30) Ethical Meat Eating Article (3:38) Solving Problems by Letting Go (3:52)  If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here. And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across. Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you next Monday!

Happy Monday! Glad to have you back for another episode of Nat Chat, an audio version of my newsletter Monday Medley. Join me in recapping my best finds from across the Internet with topics ranging from empires, fruit and vegetable classification, and mediocrity. Make sure to subscribe to my newsletter if you prefer a readable copy of this podcast! Resources mentioned: The Mental Model Behind Every High-Performer I Know (0:21) Starting a $400,000 Side Business in 1 Month (for Free) (0:30) 5 Life Lessons from a Book too Evil for Prisons (0:35) White Oak Pastures (0:45) Avoid the Fate of Empires (1:15) College as an Incubator or Girardian Terror (3:14) Thread on Bill Grundfest (4:36) The Premium Mediocre Life of Maya Millenial (5:22) Brandon Zhang podcast (5:43) Signaling as a Service (6:28) Confusion around tomatoes (6:40) Ketchup was considered a vegetable (7:40) If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here. And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across. Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you next Monday!

Happy Monday! On this week's episode of Nat Chat, I'm covering this week's Monday Medley newsletter. Join me in recapping my best finds from across the Internet with topics ranging from energy, wildfires, and privacy. Make sure to subscribe to my newsletter if you prefer a readable copy of this podcast! Resources mentioned: 9 favorite tools I use for better sleep (0:12) Humanity's relationship with energy (0:18) "Student Mindset" podcast (0:31) Making future habits easy (0:45) Alex Tabarrok wildfire article (2:16) Chaos Monkeys (4:31) The Social Dilemma (4:34) Previous piece for Wired (5:45) Hedge funds (6:12) Protein poisoning (7:12) Getting sweaty (7:24) Purpose by Sovereignty (7:55) If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here. And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across. Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you next Monday!

Happy Monday! On this week's episode of Nat Chat, I'm covering this week's Monday Medley newsletter. Join me in recapping my best finds from across the Internet with topics ranging from airlines, journaling, and limiting beliefs. Make sure to subscribe to my newsletter if you prefer a readable copy of this podcast! I've sent one out every Monday for 230 consecutive weeks now, so don't miss out. Resources mentioned: Why you shouldn't try to read 100 books per year (0:13) Sovereignty (0:28) Purpose product (0:31) Overlooked Variable that's Key to the Pandemic (1:00) Plus Minus Next (4:26) Morning Pages in Roam (5:02) Blue light glasses (5:11) Coinbase is a Mission Focused Company (6:24) Growth Machine (7:37)  Zestful (7:41) Airlines depend on their frequent flier programs (8:20) Limiting beliefs (9:52) Analyze how you can work out of your system (10:05) If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here. And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across. Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you next Monday!

On this week's episode of Nat Chat, I'm talking about a wide range of topics featured in my Monday Medley. From supersonic speed to a good night's sleep, join me in recapping my best finds from across the Internet this week.  Make sure to subscribe to the newsletter here if you prefer a readable copy of this podcast! And don't forget to subscribe to my Youtube channel. Resources Mentioned: My YouTube channel (0:23) Helping David Perell migrate from Evernote into Roam (0:30) Highlighting important notes in podcasts.(0:35) A marathon 2+ hour interview of me (0:44) Nick Maggiulli (1:10) Retire in Progress (1:12) Sovereignty (1:17) Dream (1:24) Medley 210 (1:50) Boom Supersonic (1:53) The first XB-1 Supersonic Jet (1:58) Article by Patrick Collison (2:16) Fear caused by bicycles (4:31) Lost opportunity to lead Airbnb's seed round (5:40) What makes Y Combinator so special (6:28) My favorite sleep tech this week (6:48) BluBLOX (6:56) Blue Light Filtering Test (7:00) Fascinating Visualization (7:16) It's Decorative Gourd Season (7:40) If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across. Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you next Monday!  

Today's episode of Nat Chat features an audio version of my September 21st edition of the Monday Medley, an email newsletter where I provide interesting finds from around the Internet. Make sure to subscribe to the newsletter if you prefer a readable copy of this podcast! Resources mentioned: The Brain (0:44) Infinite Jest (1:02) Sovereignty (1:24) Purpose (1:33) Why I Stopped Angel Investing (2:11) Exercising your options at an early stage company (3:28) Best income producing assets for growing wealth (3:47) Great tweets and lessons from Startup L Jackson (4:10) Invest $7mm in Shopify (4:22) Ali Abdaal (4:55) Thomas Frank (4:56) Final Cut Pro X for YouTubing (5:07) First day practicing archery (5:25) Centenarian Olympics (6:08) Faking the language (7:21) Babbling (2:23) Improving Idea Flow (2:24) Calling Joe Rogan out(8:03) Keep housing prices reasonable (8:44) If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here. And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across. Thanks for tuning in, I'll see you next Monday!

Nat Chat is back! I am excited to bring you an audio version of my Monday Medley, an email newsletter where I provide interesting finds from around the Internet, spanning as broad of topics as the rest of my website. Resources mentioned: 75% Rule (1:04) Scale by Geoffrey West (1:52) The Brain (2:09) I sent the authors a couple questions (2:36) Sovereignty (2:51) Their "Dream" product (3:19) Original animated movies and the live action remakes (4:46) Why the "Karen" meme naming is so accurate (5:13) Terry (5:50) Supercharge Your Productivity with Notion (6:02) Effortless Output course (7:17) what my setup looks like now (7:23) The Way of Zen (9:04) Is economic growth over? (10:16) What happened in 1971 (11:11) The Sovereign Individual (11:35) interesting interview of Andy Mant (14:08) Unconventional Medicine by Chris Kresser (14:52) Wearing sunglasses might mess with the signals our body needs (16:02)      If you want to support the Medley and my other writing, there are many ways you can do that here. And should you come across anything interesting this week, tweet me @nateliason. I'd love to hear your thoughts and neat things you may come across!

It’s the consistency over a long period of time where you really start to see the breakthrough. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Nasos Papadopoulos. Nasos attended Oxford University, where after a while, realized that being on the path with finance and economics just wasn’t for him. He took a long break to travel and explore new opportunities, eventually getting into meta-learning and the science of learning. He started the site Metalearn.net where he educates other people on learning more effectively and efficiently. He also has a popular podcast and a course on the topic, all focused on helping people get better at learning. Nasos is an excellent guy to learn from for those wanting to learn more effectively and efficiently, stay motivated, and getting to know their learning strengths and weaknesses. We cover a wide range of topics, including: What Nasos has learned by focusing on learning how to learn The niche and lesser-known aspects of learning The fixed and growth mindsets and their impact on learning Figuring out your own learning strengths and weaknesses Applying Hebb’s Law and becoming more self and other-aware Overcoming the sunk cost of highly investing in the wrong area And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Nasos on Twitter! If you enjoyed this episode and our discussion on learning and self-education, be sure to check out my episode with Zak Slayback, and my episode with Connor Grooms, where we delve into these topics and more.   Find Nasos online: Website [0:35] MetaLearn Twitter [49:18] Nasos’ Twitter [49:20] Mentioned in the show: Oxford University [0:15] Metalearn.net [0:35] MetaLearn podcast [0:48] Nat’s episode on the MetaLearn podcast [1:24] Italki [20:45] Make Me a MetaLearner course [24:47] Self-authoring Suite [25:44] 5-Minute Journal [30:45] Hebb’s Law [31:32] Python [32:58] Duolingo [34:23] Codecademy [34:24] Sesame Street [34:26] Books mentioned: How Will You Measure Your Life [11:12] The 4-Hour Workweek [11:50] Intelligence and How to Get It [21:17] People mentioned: Clayton Christensen [11:13] Tim Ferriss [11:50] Plato [12:05] Aristotle [12:06] Carol Dweck [16:53] Elon Musk [18:24] Richard Nisbett [21:15] Howard Gardner [22:49] Dr. Jordan Peterson [25:36] Scott Adams [45:32] 1:19 - Introduction to Nasos, him detailing his schooling experiences and time at Oxford University, and then rethinking his whole perspective on the educational system. 7:30 - How Nasos’ perspective on continuing to work in the financial field changed, after barely missing a top score on one of his finals. Also, a bit on his traveling experiences and what he did after having this huge change in perspective. 10:33 - How Nasos was paying for travel and a few of the impactful books he read shortly after leaving the financial field. 12:18 - How and when Nasos first began his company, MetaLearn. 13:32 - Some of the most important lessons that Nasos has learned from studying the science of learning. 16:44 - Neuroplasticity, the growth vs the fixed mindset, and some explanations on these. Also, why the growth mindset can be harmful towards learning. 19:30 - Using some of these techniques for improving your language learning, speculation how much of a role IQ plays, and some thoughts on intelligence in general. 24:18 - Figuring out your own strengths and weaknesses with learning, re-evaluating yourself, and self-analyzing with external perspectives on yourself. 28:06 - Nasos’ personal experience with self-awareness and learning that there isn’t a one-size-fits-all. 29:50 - What Nasos has been doing to be more self-aware and other-aware. 31:23 - Nasos detailing a few examples of learning based on making connections to past knowledge. Also, how Nasos has applied Hebb’s Law. 34:05 - The gamification of learning (Duolingo, Codecademy, Sesame Street) and Nasos’ thoughts on this. 36:42 - Nasos on blending the learning games with effective learning techniques. “I think if you have a piece of your learning process that is purely gamified, that’s great as long as it’s not the only thing.” 38:44 - How Nasos keeps himself motivated with learning new things and working on his entrepreneurial creative project. “I come back to: ‘Why am I doing this, why does this matter to me, what impact is this having on the people around me and the wider world?” and that keeps me motivated.” 40:26 - Nasos’ advice on letting go of the sunk cost of investing heavily in something that you didn’t enjoy doing or wasn’t meaningful to you. 43:37 - Nasos’ current long-term goals with Metalearn and other projects. Also, a bit on systems-based thinking and Nasos’ advice for others looking to become more effective with learning in general. 48:55 - Wrap-up and where to find Nasos online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast When it has meaning to you, the other motivational stuff just becomes irrelevant.

When you understand what people are trying to do with a college degree, which is buying a signal that says ‘I’m worth hiring’, you realize that signal is really not that strong. And if you set your mind to it, you can create a better, more powerful signal in a much shorter amount of time and for much less money. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Isaac Morehouse. Isaac’s the founder of Praxis, an alternative education system, which focuses on giving participants a lot of applicable skills and a broader understanding of subject knowledge at a self-paced rate. It also pairs participants with startups and gives them more hands-on experience with 6-month apprenticeships. Two previous Nat Chat guests, Hannah Phillips and Zak Slayback, have both had experiences with the system. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Problems with the current education system and how it negatively impacts students. Why going to college is a riskier choice for most people. Why you don’t need a degree to get jobs and careers that you’re excited about. How you can begin self-educating yourself. Challenging the status quo and dealing with pressure from peers. The mistakes that most people make when learning a skill. And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Isaac on Twitter!   If you enjoyed this episode and our discussion on self-education, be sure to check out my episode with Zak Slayback. If want more on education and improving college, you’ll enjoy my episode with Blake Boles, as well as my episode with William Deresiewicz.   Find Isaac online: Website Praxis Twitter Mentioned in the show: Praxis [0:28] MailChimp [7:00] Shopify [10:09] Github [10:22] Stop Telling Good Arguers to Become Lawyers article [19:39] Quora [51:30] Praxis blog [52:45] Isaac’s website [53:13] Isaac’s books [53:20] Isaac’s podcast [53:22] Books mentioned: Smartcuts Shane Snow [34:42] (Nat’s Notes) The Inner Game of Tennis [44:22] (Nat’s Notes) The Future of School [54:20] People mentioned: Hannah Phillips [0:58] Zak Slayback [1:00] Aaron Watson [1:58] Shane Snow [34:42] 1:43 - Intro to Isaac and some information on the alternative education system Praxis. 4:17 - Isaac’s story with developing Praxis, flaws in the college system, what makes a college degree not that valuable, and why it’s not the best usage of time and money. Also, why many people will prefer hiring people with hands-on experience compared to people with just a degree. 10:39 - Whether or not Praxis and the self-education process works even if you’re not going into a startup or new-age company. Also, a bit on soft-skills and hard-skills, having tangible evidence of work experience, and demonstrating your abilities. “The key is the ability to demonstrate is more important than what it is that you’re demonstrating.” 13:57 - The safety concerns with the risks associated with leaving college and not getting a degree. A bit on the societal and prestige concerns of not having a degree, as well. “That’s the safety you’re giving up. The safety of the good opinion of others. Other than that, there is no safety you’re giving up.” 15:22 - The negative habits picked up through the college system that makes success harder for you. Also, the de-schooling process necessary for some Praxis participants and a bit more on the safety concerns regarding a degree. “Once you have anything more valuable than a degree, which can include a year of work experience, demonstrating a product, nobody asks about your degree.” 20:05 - The social pressure of your friends making more than you, and you judging yourself negatively because of that, even if you’re enjoying what you do more. Also, the extreme benefits of having low-income as a young person and the extreme importance of opportunity-cost. “It’s amazing the number of things that you can do when you stop looking at ‘I need a salary and a title that’s impressive to other people.’” 23:34 - Traveling and learning, keeping net income low, and being brutally honest with yourself with what you actually value. Also, some discussion on the need to experiment, figuring out what you like and dislike before making a career choice, and not being shackled to your previous definitions of success. 28:09 - Treating everything you do like an experiment, getting real experience in the field you want to go into before actually deciding on it, and some discussion on the transference of skills in one field to other fields. Also, a bit on the unique aspect of having skills in several areas come together. 35:54 - What Praxis does differently compared to the traditional college system and why it’s much better for the participant at Praxis. Also, a few of the things that Praxis participants do while there and the importance of getting some real-world practice to theorize and apply feedback upon before you begin learning something. 41:50 - The biggest mistake that people make when teaching themselves something by studying something without ever going out and doing it. Also, this same problem found in schools and a perfect analogy for this at 42:43. 45:00 - Humans being naturally entrepreneurial, how the education system damages this natural entrepreneurial aspect, and rekindling that natural entrepreneurial ember that we all have. 46:58 - The issues with the lonely aspect of going these non-traditional routes and some solutions for this feeling of loneliness. Also, being more vocal about what you’re about and what you’re interested in and how that attracts people with similar interests. 52:20 - Wrap-up, where to learn more about Isaac and Praxis, and what the best resources are for starting down this path are. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast Realizing that we can show our work and demonstrate our ability, and get opportunities by building our own credential, just opens things wide up.

“If you can get into a job that has a really small team where you can work closely with the founders, you learn at a much more accelerated rate than if you were working in a much larger company dealing with managers.” In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Vincent Nguyen. Early into his college career, he already knew that the traditional college path wasn’t for him. He started a blog on the side called Self Stairway and over the course of seven months, he began posting on publications, connecting with influencers, and eventually got the opportunity to take on an apprenticeship with the company Empire Flippers. He took the apprenticeship, dropped out of college, and moved to the Philippines. After six months of working with them, he was promoted to be their marketing director and after a while, he branched off to start his own company, Growth Ninja. He’s been doing that for over two years now and helps sites grow through Facebook advertising. Vincent’s a good example of the great opportunities that you can gain from getting an apprenticeship, as well as showing that you don’t necessarily need a degree to be successful. We cover a wide range of topics, including: The multiple opportunities that an apprenticeship or blog can present you Disregarding college and self-educating yourself Resources for others looking to easily get an apprenticeship Advice for others looking to get into entrepreneurial pursuits The parental concern towards those choosing to not go to college Vincent’s journey from being an apprentice to becoming a marketing director And much more. Please enjoy, and be sure to check out Vincent’s company Growth Ninja!  If you enjoyed this episode and our discussion on entrepreneurship and bypassing college, check out my episode with Zak Slayback, where we deep dive into both of those topics and much more. If you enjoyed the discussion on apprenticeships, check out my episode with Charlie Hoehn, as well as my episode with Cory Ames. Find Vincent online: Growth Ninja Self Stairway Mentioned in the show: Self Stairway [0:24] Empire Flippers [0:42] Tropical MBA [1:39] Entrepreneur On Fire [10:02] Marc and Angel’s site [10:11] Vincent’s video for Empire Flippers [10:44] Zapier [13:22] Dynamite Circle [28:04] Reddit [36:49] GetApprenticeship [37:34] Jobs.dynamitecircle.com [38:00] Sumo [38:14] We Work Remotely [38:30] Remote Ok [38:31] Tropical MBA podcast [40:45] (Vincent's first and second episodes on there) Books mentioned: The 4-Hour Workweek [39:50] (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: John Lee Dumas [10:01] John Saddington [10:04] Neil Patel [10:07] Marc and Angel [10:11] Joshua Becker [10:14] Taylor Pearson [37:36] (Taylor’s Nat Chat episode) Tim Ferriss [39:34] Ramit Sethi [40:15] Derek Halpern [40:24] 1:30 - Introduction to Vincent, a bit on his first apprenticeship, becoming a marketing director for Empire Flippers, and then leaving to start his own company. 3:53 - Some of the internships Vincent was doing before he left for his apprenticeship at Empire Flippers. 6:20 - A bit on Vincent’s self-improvement blog Self Stairway and some of the things that he did there. 9:25 - Vincent detailing the video that he did which greatly helped him land the apprenticeship at Empire Flippers that eventually led to him starting his company Growth Ninja. 14:36 - Some more on Vincent’s apprenticeship with Empire Flippers, some info on the company being based in the Philippines, and what Empire Flippers does. 17:31 - Vincent’s transition from being an apprentice to becoming the marketing director of Empire Flippers and how he developed the skills for that role. 19:37 - Discussion on Vincent dropping out of college and some of the concern that his parents had. Also, some general discussion on the concern that most parents have with their kids going to college. 24:28 - What made Vincent not want to go to college and what peaked his interest in entrepreneurial pursuits. 26:19 - Some of the reasons that Vincent left Empire Flippers to start Growth Ninja. 28:38 - The beginning experiences that Vincent had with starting Growth Ninja. Also, what it was like for him leaving Empire Flippers to start his own company, and how he maintained a relationship with Empire Flippers afterward. 31:09 - What the business has been like for Vincent in the past two years. Also, some discussion on existential crises, finding out what you want to do in life, and some helpful perspectives on choosing something that you want to do. 34:46 - What made Vincent choose to keep his company local instead of remote. 36:05 - A bit on Vincent’s first apprentice and how he found her. 37:20 - Some really good resources for people wanting to find apprenticeship opportunities. 39:38 - Some of the books that had the largest impact on Vincent with entrepreneurial confidence. 41:40 - Some last thoughts and things that Vincent wished he had known earlier when getting started with his entrepreneurial pursuits. Some good advice for others interested in making better decisions and being more successful. 43:25 - Wrap-up, where you can learn more about Vincent, and where to find him online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast Always be open to criticism and feedback. Don’t be so convinced that you’re right and don’t be so sure of yourself.

If you’re spending less than an hour a day on whatever’s most important to you, that’s something you can pretty easily take up to ninety or a hundred and twenty minutes and get more than fifty to a hundred percent more on results. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Sebastian Marshall. Sebastian and I delved into a lot about productivity, life and habit tracking, and developing really good systems for achieving your highest output. He’s been writing on his blog for eight years and runs a company now called Ultra Working, where he helps individuals and companies get the most out of their day-to-day systems. Sebastian’s a great person to learn from for those wanting to optimize their systems for high output and productivity, and to become more disciplined with their habits. We do get a bit in the weeds about time tracking in the beginning, so if that’s not as interesting to you feel free to skip ahead. There’s a TON here and we share a lot of interests, so we dove deep on the finer points of productivity. We covered a ton, including: The huge advantages of tracking your life, habits, and work Hacking your productivity and achieving more in less time Developing high-output systems and outlining templates for those systems Getting started with pursuing projects that you’re interested in How Sebastian and I began hacking productivity and more Minimizing boredom and benefiting from failure And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Sebastian on Twitter! If you enjoyed this episode and our discussion on productivity and time management, be sure to check out my episode with Chris Sparks, where we discuss tons of great productivity advice and more. Also, if you want to hear more about using failure to grow, check out my episode with Matthew Barby, where we discuss this and more. Find Sebastian online: Blog Ultra Working Twitter Mentioned in the show: Ultra Working [1:34] Rescue Time [2:46] Lights Spreadsheet [4:59] Sebastian’s resources [9:17], [25:46], and [59:24] The Strategic Review [18:10] Getting Stuff Done Like a Boss [29:50] Things app for Mac [30:19] Growth Machine [45:02] Posttraumatic growth [56:15] Key Decision Analysis [59:51] Ivan Mazour’s website [1:02:02] M/M/1 Queuing Theory [1:02:35] Ambition Life Calendar [1:05:25] Give Get Win [1:09:28] Books mentioned: Gateless [20:58] Sebastian’s books [29:20] The Power of Habit [39:29] (Nat’s Notes) The Willpower Instinct [39:30] (Nat’s Notes) Principles [56:35] (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Peter Drucker [20:23] “What gets measured, gets managed.” Kai Zau [20:58] Tiago Forte [29:49] Justin Mares [44:15] (Nat Chat episode with Justin) Tasha Meys [50:23] (Nat Chat episode with Tasha) Charlie Hoehn [51:28] (Nat Chat episode with Charlie) Toyotomi Hideyoshi [53:18] Ray Dalio [56:35] Ivan Mazour [59:29] 1:15 - Introduction to Sebastian and some major problems today with people not tracking their time properly or investing their time as wisely as they should.4:21 - What Sebastian’s current tracking system looks like after seven years of refining it, how to follow it on your own, and some advice for others looking to successfully adhere to their own system. 13:09 - Why this tracking system works very well and some discussion on why you may feel like you’re doing well, but if you take a closer look, you’re not. A bit on your emotions fooling you. 17:33 - Sebastian on what he tracks, how he tracks it, and what everyone else should be doing if they’re starting to track things. (You don’t have to track everything) “For a lot of juice out of life, pick the one or two activities that are really the most important to you and just track those.” 20:30 - Some of the things that led to Sebastian and Kaizo starting Ultra Working. Also, a bit on what Ultra Working does and what their goals are. 22:50 - How the program developed, some results that the company has had with people, and some more on what they do at Ultra Working. 25:26 - The work cycle system, how you can benefit from it, and a bit on both how and why it works. 29:35 - Nat’s personal system for getting things done and the ranking aspect of it. Also, a bit on how Sebastian ranks his system and some discussion on the importance of pre-estimating how long things are going to take. 34:44 - Thoughts on overestimating how much you actually work, scheduling more in less time, and the negative impact of bragging about working hard if there’s not much to show for it. “Don’t tell me how hard you’ve worked, tell me what you’ve got to show for it.” 38:22 - How Nat got into productivity hacking and how accelerating productivity has helped him in various ways. 42:01 - Nat on minimizing boredom and some tactics everyone can use for minimizing boredom. 46:47 - Discussion on the pleasure of succeeding, taking control of things, and making progress on things. Also, how someone can get into the habit of being analytical and productive, and finding that first thing that gets you on the track towards that. “You need some big thing to happen, probably a bad thing, to motivate you to action.” 52:12 - How finding mastery in one thing, transfers well to mastering other things and a bit on the benefits of hitting rock bottom as a way to become better (post-traumatic growth). 56:34 - Tracking the things that you do wrong, asking yourself what you could have done differently, being open to failure, and learning from these failures. 59:18 - Another method that you can try for improving your decision making, especially with difficult decisions. 1:03:25 - Sebastian’s current long-term goals and projects. Also, some of Ultra Working’s recent projects. 1:07:22 - Some discussion on how useful being proficient with math can be and working more with numbers. Also, some closing thoughts and where you can reach out to Sebastian at. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “Most people are very subjectively analyzing how their life is going, and with most people, their emotions are lying to them.” “Failure’s more demoralizing to people than success is pleasing and exciting.”

Find one thing that if you did it every day, would ensure that you move forward, and then make sure that it happens every day. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Chris Sparks. Chris shares his story with getting heavily involved in poker while still in college. Chris had planned to get into advertising but instead went all in with playing poker. After a year, he was living in a multi-million dollar mansion in Los Angeles up until 2011 when the US shut down online poker, seizing all of the money that he and his friends had in their exchanges. He went to London, continuing to pursue poker and travel, but soon began getting into more entrepreneurial projects. Currently, he’s now a high-end productivity coach. Chris is an excellent person to emulate for those wanting to become highly productive and efficient, as well as successful. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Tons of advice for those looking to be more productive and successful Chris’ story on becoming a worldwide top-twenty online poker player Becoming more efficient at learning things Chris’ advice from traveling and top-performers Building positive habits and commonly found productivity-hindering habits Chris’ personal system for improvement and productivity And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Chris on Twitter! If you enjoyed this episode and our discussion on self-education and entrepreneurship, check out my episode with Zak Slayback, as well as my episode with Connor Grooms.   Find Chris online: Website Twitter Facebook Medium Mentioned in the show: The Cools [9:17] Gin rummy [14:09] Coachella [29:56] Chris’ Medium page [52:04] The Forcing Function [54:15] Books mentioned: Getting Things Done [48:31] The Motivation Hacker [48:35] (Nat’s Notes) So Good They Can’t Ignore You [48:40] (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Chris Moneymaker [13:45] Cal Newport [48:38] 1:30 - Intro to Chris, a bit of background on him and his story, and why he currently won’t go back to the UK. 7:24 - Chris' time in Europe, what came next for him after getting out of the poker scene, and how he got into more entrepreneurial projects. 9:50 - Chris detailing his two-year traveling experiences and working on his bucket list. Also, some of the major things he did while traveling and detailing some of the powerful lessons that he learned. 12:57 - Chris’ really interesting story with poker and becoming one of the top twenty professional online poker players in the world. Also, his original career path and what made him stray away from that, eventually to consider playing poker as his full-time job. 18:25 - Chris’ experiences in Brazil and some life-changing moments he had there. 21:00 - How Chris learned to play poker so well, what that process looked like, and how you can emulate this to improve your own learning abilities. 24:13 - Chris moving to LA from Detroit with some of his closest poker friends, him detailing some crazy stories from that, and then going on to live in a multi-million dollar mansion there. 29:23 - How long Chris lived in that mansion, his experience with losing most of his net worth to the government, and his reaction to getting the news that the US banned online poker. 31:57 - Chris’ story with learning marketing, google analytics, and getting into productivity coaching after losing most of his money 34:26 - Some of the first things that Chris worked on with various entrepreneurs in productivity coaching. 38:07 - Some productivity and prioritization advice from Chris to others. 40:59 - The common bad habits that Chris notices with his clients and some more powerful productivity and positive habit forming advice. “True success comes from small improvements every day.” 44:24 - Chris’ personal system for reflection and system improvement. Also, some tactical pieces of information and advice that you can apply to your own life. 47:53 - What has helped Chris out the most with learning the mechanics of productivity. Some advice for others, as well. “Getting access to what all of the other top-performers are doing and deconstructing that.” 49:52 - What Chris was first sharing and helping others out with in the beginning. Advice for others looking to be successful also mentioned here. “If anyone finds it useful, it’s selfish to not share it.” 54:03 - Wrap-up and where to find Chris online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast The biggest thing that you can do, particularly in college, where you’ll never have as much serendipity and exposure to people from all over who have all of this free time and opportunity to do things, is to work on projects together, do things that scare you, take advantage of the massive amount of resources at your school that you’re already paying for, and take on opportunities to expand your skillset through projects and activities.

Just work on doing things for you and developing skills while doing it. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Hannah Phillips. Hannah started her own media company while still in high school which began with photography. Not long after, it quickly grew into branding and social media management, as well. By the time she was ready to go to college, she was making enough money to support herself and decided to focus on her business instead. She did end up going through Praxis, which was discussed in my episodes with Zak Slayback and Aaron Watson. Through it all, she’s been able to develop her skills in photography, media, and social media marketing, and grow this business that’s supporting her, despite her only being 20 years old. Hannah is an excellent person to learn from for those of you with a creative ability or for those that just want to get into something entrepreneurial. We cover a wide range of topics, including: How Hannah started and grew a successful media company How she primarily learned through self-education Getting accepted into Praxis and what the curriculum looks like there How others can pursue a similar, artistic lifestyle A couple of Hannah’s favorite books Advice for those wanting to get into entrepreneurial pursuits And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Hannah on Instagram! If you enjoyed this episode and the bits on sidestepping college and self-education, be sure to check out my episode with Zak Slayback, as well as my episode with Bekah Lundy. If you enjoyed our discussion on entrepreneurial endeavors, be sure to check out my episode with Justin Mares and my episode with Tasha Meys.   Find Hannah online: HP Media Instagram Mentioned in the show: Praxis [1:34] Pittsburgh Thunderbirds [1:49] Men’s Futures of Pittsburgh [4:44] HP Media [7:02] Photoshop [8:20] Pinterest [25:33] Books mentioned: The War of Art [20:00] (Nat’s Notes) Impossible to Ignore [20:25] Pitch Anything [21:24] People mentioned: Zak Slayback [0:41] (Nat Chat episode with Zak) Aaron Watson [1:27] (Nat Chat episode with Aaron) Chris Bosh [20:28] Oren Klaff [21:25] 1:18 - Introduction to Hannah, her association with a previous podcast guest, Aaron Watson, and how she got into Praxis. 2:15 - How Hannah got started with doing photography for the Pittsburgh Thunderbirds, a professional ultimate frisbee team. 4:31 - Hannah’s first professional clients that she had for her photography and her thoughts on whether she’s always been interested in sports photography. 5:34 - How long Hannah’s been professional photographing and when she started her media company. Also, Hannah speaking about when her business first started to become profitable and detailing a bit on her company’s journey. 7:06 - The main things that Hannah focused on in the beginning of her company and detailing a bit on what she does now. 8:01 - How Hannah learned branding, consulting, social media marketing, and other skills. 8:47 - Hannah discussing her decision on not going to college and instead, working on her company full-time and self-educating herself. 10:12 - How Hannah found the confidence to not go to college and be okay. Also, her experience with being homeschooled. 12:13 - Hannah discussing her homeschooling experience a bit more, some discussion on self-directed learning, and what her education looked like in the later years. Also, advice for others looking to learn more and become more successful. 14:26 - Whether or not Hannah did any mentoring and her experience with giving speeches. Some discussion on her journey with Praxis and the impact it had, as well. 16:54 - What the application and qualification process for Praxis looks like, and what you have to prove. Also, what the curriculum looked like for Praxis. 19:56 - Some of the books that Praxis required students to read and Hannah discussing a couple of her favorite books. Some detail on pitching and sales, too. 23:06 - Hannah’s favorite person that she’s working with currently and what she does for that person. Afterwards, a bit about her experiences with Instagram marketing. 25:40 - How she got linked up with a marketing company while in Praxis and her speaking about cutting her apprenticeship short with that company. 27:30 - Hannah’s speaking about her financial security and her long-term goals with her company, HP Media. Also, Hannah’s thoughts on why so many artistic and creative people don’t make a job out of those skills. 31:20 - Hannah’s first project that she did outside of the school environment and what her first photography project for someone else was. 33:02 - Some things not mentioned so far that Hannah believes is really important for entrepreneurial success. 34:10 - Hannah’s biggest challenge she’s had from making her business her lifestyle and how she maintains her motivation. 36:10 - Some habits and small things that have helped Hannah do her best work. 38:36 - Wrap-up, some last pieces of advice from Hannah for others looking to be more successful and happy, and where to find Hannah online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast Work on goals and projects that are in no way school or work related, just because that gives you something to feel good about accomplishing.

The most effective way of learning for me was just failing over and over again. Being in a place where you don’t know anything and where you have to force yourself to learn. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Bekah Lundy. Bekah started off as a student of The University of Minnesota, where after a year, she started to get into web development and realized normal college just wasn’t for her. She left and went through a coding boot camp called Turing. Seven months later, she started working as a developer for a start-up called Apto in Boulder, Colorado. Bekah’s story is a great example for those who are wanting to leave a traditional career route to pursue things that they’re actually passionate about. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Self-educating yourself Finding the confidence to stray from the traditional career path Learning to program and code Using failure as a way to accelerate learning Being passionate about your work Turing, the effective coding boot camp And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Bekah on Twitter! If you enjoyed our discussion on learning, self-education, and leaving college, be sure to check out my episode with Zak Slayback, and my episode with Connor Grooms. If you want to learn more about coding, check out my episode with Max Friedman, and my episode with Darwish Gani, where we discuss coding in detail and much more. Find Bekah Online: Twitter Linkedin Mentioned in the show: University of Minnesota [0:22] Turing [0:32] Apto [0:38] My journey to becoming a 19-year-old Full Stack engineer [0:41] Full Stack [0:41] Codecademy [5:40] Harvard [11:32] Stanford [11:45] Number Guesser project [16:18] Codewars [35:50] People mentioned: Mark Zuckerberg [11:32] 1:29 - Introduction to Bekah, what she does, and where she works. 2:36 - Bekah’s story on leaving college and becoming a 19-year-old Full Stack engineer. 8:50 - How Bekah found the confidence to take the leap, leave college, and go to Turing, a coding boot camp, instead. 11:17 - Some discussion on the option of temporarily dropping out, and maybe returning later. Also, how important and useful temporarily dropping out can be. Some information on the flaws of college learning, as well. 15:28 - What Bekah’s project-based learning and education looked like at Turing. 19:19 - Bekah’s experience with learning to be comfortable with failing over and over again, as well as self-education. 21:57 - Techniques that Bekah learned from Turing that helped her with learning to be comfortable with failing quickly. Also, how people could incorporate these techniques without an organization teaching them. 24:22 - Bekah’s experience with learning on her own and doing side projects before she went to Turing. 25:07 - Some major resources that helped Bekah with learning to code and program. 25:56 - What the application process is like for Turing. 29:02 - The other boot camps that Bekah looked at before deciding upon Turing and the factors that mattered the most to her when deciding. 31:02 - What the tuition is like for Turing and some information on scholarship programs. 32:05 - What the hiring process looked like after completing Turing. 34:47 - Bekah’s thoughts on what she’d do if money were no longer a concern for her. 35:38 - What Bekah does in her free time to keep her coding skills sharp and updated. 36:19 - Some last thoughts on leaving college, learning to code, and going against the traditional route. 36:58 - Wrap-up and where to find Bekah online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast So many students don’t realize that it’s an option to do this soft drop-out, go try something else and if it doesn’t work out, you can always come back.

Seeking out experiences where you’re forced to learn, will create so many of these moments, where you’re going to look at things completely differently when you’re done. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Cory Ames. Cory was going to college at Gonzaga University where he took on an apprenticeship with a marketing agency. His apprenticeship with that agency quickly earned him bigger and bigger roles, where within a couple of years, he was actually running the whole company while being only 23 years old. He figured everything out on his own through various projects in college and by reaching out to others to learn from them. Currently, Cory’s out of that marketing agency and is working on some of his own projects. Cory’s a great model to follow for those wanting to pursue their goals, those wanting to self-educate themselves, and for those wanting to get into entrepreneurial pursuits. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Deconstructing skills and learning them on your own Self-educating yourself outside of the college environment His journey towards running a multi-million dollar company at only 23 years old Finding the confidence to leave school and pursue your goals Promoting your skillset and finding clients for your skills Resources and books that have helped Cory out along the way And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Cory on Twitter! If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more on self-education, be sure to check out my episode with Zak Slayback and my episode with Zen Dude Fitness, where we go in-depth on self-educating yourself and much more. You’ll also like my episode with Tasha Meys, where we discuss finding mentors, promoting your skillset, and more. Find Cory Online: Twitter Linkedin Website Cory’s Newsletter Mentioned in the show: Gonzaga University [0:28] Nat’s Wiki Strategy article [1:30] WordPress [8:26] Firegang [12:09] Moz’s Whiteboard Fridays [15:50] Clickminded Course [16:30] Backlinko Blog [16:32] Airbnb [16:58] Zoom [27:55] Books mentioned: The 4-Hour Chef [3:25] (Nat’s Notes) The Art of Learning [3:30] (Nat's Notes) The 4-Hour Workweek [8:08] (Nat’s Notes) Getting Everything You Can Out of All You’ve Got [36:55] People mentioned: Casey Ames [1:35] Taylor Pearson [1:36] (Nat Chat episode with Taylor) Tim Ferriss [3:25] Josh Waitzkin [3:30] Tommy Griffith [16:30] Blake Boles [23:19] (Nat Chat episode with Blake) Jay Abraham [37:10] 1:17 - Intro to Cory, what he’s currently working on, and him detailing his experience with learning photography. Also, how he’s finding people to reach out to, to learn photography. 5:34 - Some of the things Cory’s learned so far with photography within the deconstruction phase. 6:59 - How long Cory has been learning photography and some things he’s been doing for income. 7:27 - Cory’s journey to becoming CEO of a multi-million dollar marketing company being only 23 years old. 9:07 - What Cory was first doing for that marketing company and discussion on how large the company was. Also, what happened after he got the job there. 12:25 - What gave Cory the confidence to leave school and not go back. Also, some info on Cory’s affiliate website. 14:55 - How Cory learned SEO and a few resources that were really helpful for him learning SEO. 17:29 - Some other projects and things that helped Cory with self-educating himself. 19:43 - What Cory was studying while he was in college and what steered him away from college the most. Also, detailing some of the pros and cons of college. 23:03 - Cory’s experience with traveling to South America and some lessons that he learned while there. Also, his experiences and his traveling after leaving South America and living in Austin, Texas. 27:13 - How the team at the marketing company worked together and his thoughts on managing travel and working. 29:57 - Cory’s progression from the lead SEO role to then leading the company. Also, why he resigned from the company. 33:20 - Some things that happened after Cory resigned and what he plans to work on in the future. 36:18 - How Cory finds the clients to work with and some advice he has for others wanting to find clients. 37:55 - Some big long-term goals and projects that Cory’s currently striving for. 39:14 - Some thoughts on working with the state and local level of politics. 40:39 - The life-changing books that Cory’s read and experiences that he’s had. 43:02 - Wrap-up, where to find Cory online, and where to reach out to him at. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast Build skills that can help other people, and then just have enough conversations about it with other people and their projects.

Unschooling is more about self-directed learning, finding out what you’re interested in, and going really deep into something. In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Blake Boles. While in college, Blake stumbled upon a book that really opened his eyes to the world of unschooling, alternative education, and how students could be learning better outside of the traditional systems. Shortly after graduating, he worked in California doing outdoor education and then ran off to South America for three months, where he decided he wanted to work within the alternative education field while also traveling. He then started Unschool Adventures, where he takes students on two-month trips to interesting places around the world. Blake is an excellent guy to follow if you’re into the alternative education and unschooling movement, as well as the digital nomad space. We covered a wide range of topics, including: Alternative educational systems The unschooling movement and its goals Finding the motivation to leave the traditional school system Fixing the existing school systems The importance of self-directed learning Turning your passions into a career And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Blake on his website! If you enjoyed this episode and the bits on turning your passion into a career, you’ll like my episode with Tasha Meys, where we talk about that and more. If you want more on the schooling system, be sure to listen to my episode with William Deresiewicz, where we discuss that in-depth.   Find Blake Online: Website Unschool Adventures How to Live Nowhere Mentioned in the show: Unschool Adventures [0:55] Lonely Planet [3:27] Summerhill School [9:05] Astro Camp [9:41] Not Back to School Camp [13:41] Couchsurfing [34:16] Minerva [34:37] (Nat Chat episode with the founder) Liberated Learners [36:49] North Star [36:54] Lord of the Flies [37:53] Arthur Morgan school [40:20] Mooc [43:12] Blakes website [51:44] Blake’s newsletter [51:44] How to Live Nowhere [52:47] Books mentioned: Dumbing Us Down [11:11] A Different Kind of Teacher [11:13] Excellent Sheep [30:15] (Nat’s Notes) (Nat Chat episode) The Art of Self-directed Learning [51:44] (Blake’s other books) People mentioned: John Taylor Gatto [8:04] William Deresiewicz [30:15] (Nat Chat episode) 1:50 - Intro to Blake, some background on what he does, and some information on his business Unschool Adventures, where he takes unschooled teenagers on international trips. Also, how he figures out which places to take his students and some details on what they learn. 5:50 - Why Blake chose to do these trips for a younger crowd and who these students are. 7:06 - How Blake got involved in the unschooling movement, some of his experiences growing up with it, and his education. 11:23 - What Blake did before he started getting into the unschool movement and his transformational travel experience to South America. Also, how he started his lifestyle business and its beginnings. 16:32 - What made Blake choose to get into unschooling compared to other alternative schooling methods and him discussing some of the homeschooling laws in Germany and in the US. 20:11 - Blake’s thoughts on social integration with unschooling and some in-depth information on the social aspect of unschooling. Also, how it can be really beneficial for sociability. 25:11 - Blake's thoughts on whether it requires a certain type of person for unschooling and on whether it could work for every kid. 28:41 - Wealthy students sometimes having it the worst with going to these top schools and the negative aspects of the social pressure that they face with those schools. Blake’s thoughts on changing the existing school systems or whether it’s okay for a certain type of person. Also, the lack of self-efficacy with these traditional compared to unschooled students. 33:00 - Whether or not Blake was always comfortable figuring things out on his own and some of the things that helped him out the most with self-directed learning. 34:29 - Blake's thoughts on other alternative schooling programs and his thoughts on the practical issue that families interested in unschooling face, which is that the parents working often or that there’s only one parent. Also, which alternative school models Blake recommends the most. 39:19 - Whether or not Blake has thought about starting a center modeled after these other effective self-directed learning centers. Also, some of his future plans within the unschooling space. 42:16 - Blake’s ideas for fixing the education problem at the parental level, some more thoughts on how Blake’s parents helped him out regarding education, how parents can help their children more in regards to education, and where he started when he began questioning the education system. 46:37 - Blake detailing the de-schooling process and talking about the transition phases between mentally demanding periods of life. 49:10 - Some last thoughts from Blake and some thoughts on the extreme social comparison that can be made between unschooled students and regular students. 51:44 - Wrap-up and where to find Blake online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast Unrestricted travel, in general, is such a great corollary for self-directed learning for having to figure out who you are and what you want to do, because no one’s going to hold your hand or make it easy for you or if they do, they’re going to charge you a bunch of money.

Taking action in anything is going to have a much better result than doing nothing. In this episode, I’m joined by Tasha Meys. Tasha grew up in New Zealand and studied psychology, which she quickly got out of when she realized it wasn’t for her, going on to study food and nutrition instead. Around her sophomore year of college, she decided that she needed a portfolio for getting jobs post-graduation and got really into Instagram. Shortly after graduating, she began to get solicited by large brands wanting to be promoted on her Instagram page. Now, she consults companies on how to grow their own social media influence and helps others do the same. Tasha is a great example of someone who turned their passion into a fulfilling and successful lifestyle and is a great person to emulate if you want to do something similar. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Reaching out and finding good mentors Improving your confidence with online publicity Growing your social media influence Bringing your skills to the table with social platforms Gaining more financial independence through social media Tasha’s pivotal book recommendations And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Tasha on Instagram! If you enjoyed this episode and liked the sections on travel, be sure to check out my episode with Connor Grooms, and if you want to learn more about finding valuable mentors be sure to listen to my episode with Charlie Hoehn, where we go in-depth on that. Lastly, if you’re interested in finding your passion, you’ll enjoy my episode with Thomas Frank. Find Tasha Online: Health Instagram (main) Travel Instagram Art Instagram Website Instagram Growth and Engagement Facebook group   Mentioned in the show: Outward Bound [19:14] Lewis Howes podcast [35:37] Tim Ferriss podcast [35:37] Books mentioned: Color Me Creative [3:58] Color Me Inspired [4:01] The Defining Decade [35:20] (Nat’s Notes) Awaken the Giant Within [35:30] (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Kristina Webb [3:47] Harper Collins [3:55] 0:00 - Intro to the show and some background information on Tasha. 1:13 - Tasha’s introduction, her detailing some of her traveling experiences, and a few of her business and writing experiences. 4:23 - How Tasha got involved with work based around Instagram, how she gained following on her Instagram, and what she studied in college. 8:58 - Tasha detailing what her college experience in New Zealand was like. 13:04 - What Tasha got into after graduating, how she landed her first social media managing job for a company in New Zealand, and then into work around Instagram. 16:46 - How Tasha learned how to successfully grow her Instagram and make a career out of that space. 18:30 - How Tasha overcame some of these personal barriers in the beginning of her Instagram career, promoted her work, and sharing advice that you can use. 21:58 - One of the biggest lessons that Tasha’s learned from her journey with Instagram, and her speaking on finding and learning from mentors. 24:45 - What Tasha’s process for reaching out to others looks like and some thoughts on being successful. 26:37 - When Tasha and her business partner started getting into consulting work, how long they’ve been working on their business, and how many clients they typically work with. 30:15 - What Tasha’s long-term goals are for the business and her own Instagram. 33:14 - How Tasha’s parents felt when she left the company in New Zealand to fly to America to work on Instagram. 34:30 - Some books that were pivotal to Tasha’s way of thinking and where she gets a lot of her information and advice from. 37:59 - Some last pieces of advice from Tasha and some things that she wished she’d known before starting all of this. 39:26 - Wrap-up and where to find Tasha online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “Literally just ask someone that’s doing exactly what you want to do about how they got there.”

Get with the people who are a couple steps ahead of where you want to be, and learn from them. In this episode, I’m joined by Aaron Watson. Aaron and I were introduced via Zak Slayback, who came on for episode 25. Like Zak, Aaron is also passionate about the education, self-education, and self-improvement scene. He graduated from the University of Pittsburgh and went straight into an insurance sales job. Pretty soon into it, he realized that it wasn’t for him and left to start a podcast called “Going Deep with Aaron,” where he’s done over 250 episodes. If you’ve ever thought that your job just wasn’t for you and that you wanted to go do something else that’s more exciting and rewarding, Aaron is a perfect model of how you can do that. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Starting struggles with entrepreneurial endeavors Aaron’s lessons from over 250 podcast guests Finding the drive to work harder than your peers Advice for growing your content and growing a podcast Self-educating yourself outside of college Aaron’s pivotal book recommendations And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Aaron on Twitter! If you enjoyed our discussion on straying from the traditional path to pursue your passions and self-educating yourself, you’ll enjoy my episode with Zak Slayback, my episode with Connor Grooms, and my episode with Taylor Pearson. Find Aaron Online: Website Twitter YouTube Mentioned in the show: Aaron’s podcast, Going Deep [1:22] Aaron’s Going Deep conference event in Pittsburgh on January 27th [1:27] (event code “Nat Chat” for discount, automatically applied in the above link) Aaron’s podcast episodes on cryptocurrency and the blockchain [2:29] University of Pittsburgh’s ultimate frisbee team [5:34] Pittsburgh Thunderbirds [5:44] NPR [17:00] Econ Talk [20:42] George Mason [20:48] Libsyn [21:19] AUDL [22:25] TopScore [27:33] Weebly [28:38] Squarespace [28:38] Wix [28:38] Conversations with Tyler Cohen podcast [39:18] Invest Like the Best [39:20] Nathan Latka’s The Top Entrepreneurs [39:28] Aaron’s Newsletter [44:30] The Waiter’s Pad [44:43] Made You Think podcast [45:58] 412 Food Rescue [48:05] Books mentioned: Aaron’s book recommendation page (new books every month)      The Fish That Ate the Whale [39:49] The Power of Myth [40:54] (Nat’s Notes) (Made You Think episode) The Gospel According to Larry [42:25] Antifragile [42:45] (Antifragile Nat Chat episode) Uncensored History of Saturday Night Live [43:34] Uncensored History of ESPN [43:34] Uncensored History of the CAA [43:34] Casino Healthcare [45:38] The Internet of Money [47:03] Blockchain Revolution [47:04] People mentioned: Zak Slayback [0:07] (Zak’s Nat Chat episode) Nathan Latka [6:57] Barry Ritholtz [8:44] (Aaron’s podcast episode with him) Seth Godin [19:55] Russ Roberts [20:42] Taylor Pearson [29:18] (Taylor’s Nat Chat episode) Justin Mares [31:33]  (Justin’s Nat Chat episode) Samuel Zemurray [39:49] Joseph Campbell [40:54] Nassim Nicholas Taleb [42:45] James Andrew Miller [43:30] Mike Deriano [44:43] Patrick O’Shaugnessy [44:48] Dan Morris Monroe [45:38] Neil Soni [45:57] Leah Lizarondo [47:29] Ed Latimore [47:29] (Twitter) Dan Bull [47:29] Adam Haritan [47:29] 1:43 - Introduction to Aaron and how he chooses topics to talk about on his podcast. 3:26 - When Aaron started his podcast and how he found the drive to work harder than other people out there. Also, how this hard work has paid off for him. 6:49 - How Aaron balances his schedule between the sports, his podcast, and his branding job. 7:43 - Some of the biggest lessons Aaron’s learned from his podcast and from over 250 people. 11:20 - What Aaron was doing when he started his podcast and what his journey after graduation looked like. 14:22 - What Aaron was doing for money at the time that he was starting his podcast. 15:47 - How Aaron figured out how to effectively manage his podcast and interview people. 18:32 - Advice from Aaron on getting your content out there and how he managed to get his first few podcast guests. 22:25 - The power of circles of influence. Aaron’s example with professional ultimate frisbee leagues (AUDL) and speaking to entrepreneurs in that field. 24:36 - Aaron’s future plans for the podcast and where he plans to take it. Also, the usefulness of having an audience following for testing business ideas before you market them. 27:31 - How Aaron landed his job being the VP of sales for TopScore and what made him move on from that job. Also, how he landed a job with Nick Latka. 32:35 - Aaron’s journey through college and what he studied. Also, some of his entrepreneurial experiences with ultimate frisbee. 35:48 - How Aaron’s parents reacted to him leaving the insurance company to start his podcast. 38:04 - Aaron’s advice for others looking to get into entrepreneurial type work, and to get out of the consumption mindset and into the creation mindset. 42:09 - Some pivotal books that Aaron’s read and recommends to others. 44:29 - How Aarons decides which books to read and invest in. 46:19 - Some last thoughts from Aaron on learning Blockchain technology and some information regarding his event in Pittsburgh on January 29th. 50:11 - Wrap-up and where to find Aaron online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast You see somebody from the outside and they’re super impressive, super built-up, and then you get to know them and it’s like “Oh, okay, they just worked really hard at this and they’ve earned that prestige, but they’re not that different from any of us.”

“Different things are going to work for different people, but eating too much is bad for everyone.” In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Dan Witmer and Brandon Epstein, who together, are Zen Dude Fitness. Zen Dude Fitness is essentially a health, fitness, coaching, and lifestyle brand that’s specifically focused on jumping rope for fat loss and health. They have millions of views on YouTube, have done meetups all over the country, and have a really inspiring story. They both turned their mutual passion and interest of jumping rope, being healthy, and having fun into a really successful business where they’ve helped millions of people live healthier lifestyles. If you’re someone who wants to improve their health or just wanting tips to grow your business, these guys are excellent teachers and have a lot of great advice. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Becoming fit and healthy by jumping rope Debunking common diet and food myths Advice for getting the body that you want Common errors in the fitness industry Growing a business by self-education Getting more enjoyment from exercise And much more. Please enjoy, and check out Zen Dude Fitness on YouTube! If you enjoyed our discussion on improving your health and the bits on self-education, you should check out my episode with Connor Grooms and my episode with Zak Slayback, where in each of these we discuss more health topics, self-educating yourself, becoming successful, and more. Find Zen Dude Fitness Online: Website Youtube Instagram Twitter Dan Witmer Brandon Epstein Mentioned in the show: Zen Dude Podcast [16:28] Why Clean Eating is a Myth [23:31] Dietary Goal Calculator [25:23] The Zen Dude Jump Rope [43:05] Zen Dude Jump Rope courses [43:45] People mentioned: Armi Legge [23:30] Gary Vaynerchuk [38:20] 1:20 - Intro to the Zen Dudes and some information on what Zen Dude Fitness is all about. 3:15 - What running the business looks like for them on a daily basis, what they focus on, and how their popularity progressed over time. 5:41 - Why and how they made the decision to move to Colombia to help the company get off the ground. Also, some information on how they started the company and discussing their mission for the company. 10:31 - How Dan decided to make the move from a very lucrative job to pursuing his passion and working on Zen Dude Fitness with Brandon. 12:36 - What Brandon did before working on Zen Dude Fitness. 15:48 - The time when they both noticed that Zen Dude Fitness was doing really well and when it could be their full-time jobs. Also, how they incorporated jumping rope into the business. 18:36 - Both of them quitting weight training to solely jump rope for health, while still maintaining a very muscular physique. 20:48 - Some very common fitness errors that Dan and Brandon see a lot of people make. 23:06 - Their top recommendations for people wanting to get the body that they want and wanting to be healthy. Also, their thoughts on some very common dietary misconceptions out there and discussing some solid advice for your diet. 30:15 - Some outdated and false diet information that is still being regarded as true today, such as eating saturated fats, high salt intake, skipping breakfast, and eating lots of cholesterol as being bad for you. 34:37 - How they both find quality information and do their research. 36:30 - How they learned how to grow the YouTube channel and the Zen Dude business, without having a background in business development. Self-educating themselves on video editing and other skills. 39:08 - How they both survived at the start of the business when they had little to no income and discussing what some of their largest learning mistakes were. 42:39 - Some of the main sources of income they have from the business. Also, some really valuable advice on affiliates, building relationships with other companies and prioritizing gaining influence at the start of your business. 47:43 - The future of Zen Dude Fitness, what they may get into, and their goal for the company. 53:05 - Wrap-up and where to find the Zen Dudes online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “It’s not something that they really actually want. They just think they want it because there’s this image that’s sold on the internet.”

“For a lot of jobs, it’s actually a lot easier to get hired, promoted, and to continue growing in that job without the degree than you think it is. You just need to be creative.” In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Zak Slayback. Zak dropped out of the University of Pennsylvania when he realized that college just wasn’t for him. Since then, he’s worked on business development, published his own book, become the head of publishing for an online publication called The Mission, and much more. He’s had experience going outside of the school system, learning on your own, developing that reputation and that skill set, and getting to work with some really respected people in his field. He’s a perfect example of how you can be successful without necessarily having a college education. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Flaws with receiving degrees and with the education system Getting great apprenticeships Zak’s top book recommendations Using self-education to your advantage Understanding opportunity cost and improving your success with it Important skills you need to develop for success Techniques for achieving your goals And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Zak on Twitter! If you enjoyed this episode and want more on getting apprenticeships, you’ll love my episode with Charlie Hoehn. You should also check out my episode with Ben Nelson, where we discuss major flaws in the education system and how we can improve our learning. Lastly, check out my episode with Connor Grooms, where we discuss self-education, accelerating our learning, and more. Find Zak Online: Website Twitter Medium Amazon Mentioned in the show: University of Pennsylvania [0:27] The Mission [0:43] Medium [0:43] The State Policy Network [1:47] The Big Five Personality Index [3:42] Joe Rogan Podcast [6:04] (episode mentioned) Quest Nutrition [6:04] Uber [7:05] Praxis [8:55] Grove City College [10:37] Python [15:03] Javascript [15:05] C-Suite [16:37] Thinktink [20:22] Christian Science Monitor [20:30] Duquesne University [20:40] University of Arizona [23:02] Moving From New York to Austin (What Salary Do You Actually Need?) [36:15] Georgetown University [37:10] Clarium Capital [38:30] Weebly [40:48] Audacity [41:14] Carnegie Mellon [45:10] Leverage Research [49:14] Paradigm Academy [49:15] Ambition Mapping [52:03] Article at [53:17] SEC [52:28] Let Me Google That For You [53:20] Get Ahead Book Site [59:10] Zak’s Podcast [59:55] Kindle [1:01:15] Books mentioned: The End of School [0:38] Deep Work [28:45] (Nat’s Notes) Excellent Sheep [34:05] (Nat Chat episode) (Nat’s Notes) How to Lie with Statistics [36:50] (Nat’s Notes) Recession Proof Graduate [41:28] The Fountainhead [54:40] Value-Focused Thinking [55:18] Unlimited Power [55:47] Awaken the Giant Within [55:58] (Nat’s Notes) Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics [57:14] Goethe’s Faust [57:22] People mentioned: Joe Rogan [6:04] Milton Freeman [7:48] Ron Paul [7:48] Bill Peduto [7:48] Cal Newport [28:45] William Deresiewicz [34:05] (Nat Chat episode) Peter Thiel [38:30] Bill Gates [39:54] Charlie Hoehn [41:28] (Nat Chat episode) Ramit Sethi [41:55] Tucker Max [41:55] Tim Ferriss [41:55] Seth Godin [41:55] Jordan Peterson [50:06] Tony Robbins [51:08] Ayn Rand [55:02] Aristotle [57:14] James Altucher [58:27] 1:38 - Intro to Zak and a few thoughts on the flaws of nonprofits. 4:23 - The main issues with nonprofit organizations and some solutions for these issues. 8:06 - How Zak got invited to various talks and some information on what he talks about. 8:55 - The goal for Praxis, what they do, and how they help people find jobs through apprenticeships. Also, some thoughts on college and why it’s ineffective at preparing students for jobs. 13:22 - How Zak convinces employers to hire people who don’t have a college education and shows them their skill sets. Also, some more info on Praxis. 17:49 - How Zak started working with Praxis and received his job there. Also, some thoughts and advice with personality traits. 22:39 - Some of the projects Zak worked on in college and what he was studying in college. 23:24 - How and when Zak decided to leave his university to work on other things. Also, some powerful advice for those who are pursuing a degree. 25:29 - How Zak’s parents took his decision to leave college. 27:34 - When Zak made the switch to do more writing. Also, some advice for those who want to be a better writer and then him detailing what his recent book is about. 29:30 - Zak’s job as the head of publishing for The Mission and a few of the things that he writes about there. 30:35 - Zak’s goal for the educational system and what he wants to see change. Some more advice for people in college or planning to go to college. 34:02 - The flawed statistics with salaries, people getting trapped into these rare high salary jobs, and people trying to make their college decision based on which one has the higher reported median income. 37:55 - Some great kinds of work that tend to work really well for kids going straight in and doing apprenticeships. 39:05 - An important skill that you need to develop for success and how to learn it. Learning about opportunity cost and apprenticeships. 46:08 - Some things that helped Zak learn more about himself and his interests. Also a bit on the self-authoring program. 49:55 - What the self-authoring program is, how it works, and how it can benefit your life. Also, how you can achieve your goals easier and what you can do if you’re struggling to reach your goals. 54:33 - Some of Zak’s favorite books that impacted and helped him the most. 57:45 - Getting a free book from Zak’s website each week and some information on his upcoming book “How to Get Ahead When You Have Nothing to Offer” and when it will be released. 59:13 - Wrap-up, some last thoughts in general, his podcasts, and where to find Zak online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “I think that leaving a university is going to be a better decision for a lot more people than people think.”

“If your child needed to have brain surgery, you would not take them to the hospital that makes other people think highly of you. You would take them to the best hospital you could find. Well, education is brain surgery. It rewires your brain.” In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Ben Nelson, founder of Minerva and Minerva Schools at KGI. I’ve been excited to have Ben on the show from the beginning, since Minerva is one of the few education startups out there that’s truly changing and competing with the existing university system. They’ve taken a completely fresh look at how to run a university in the 21st century, and their results have been incredible, which we get into right as the episode starts. If I were in high school, Minerva would be more appealing than Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, or any prestigious university you typically think of. To find out why, you’ll have to hear Ben explain their process. We covered a wide range of topics, including: How we learn and how we can improve it Making educational choices based on value rather than prestige Major flaws in today’s universities What an optimal university system looks like The importance of learning real-world skills And much more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Ben on Quora! If you enjoyed this episode and want to learn more about the college system, you’ll want to check out my episode with William Deresiewicz and my episode with Thomas Frank, where we talk about student learning, university flaws, advice for students, and more. You’ll also like my episode with Darwish Gani, where we talk about different university systems, finding your passion, networking, and more. Find Ben Online: Linkedin Minerva Quora Reddit Mentioned in the show: Minerva [2:05] KGI [2:05] CLA [5:33] Far-Transfer [12:47] Scientific Method [18:51] Renaissance Gardens of Italy [23:50] Victorian Gardens of England [23:50] Phillips Exeter [31:08] Choate [31:10] Walt Disney [35:58] Olin College of Engineering [52:52] Quest in Canada [52:54] Books mentioned: Building the Intentional University [1:29] The Elements of Critical Thinking [1:00:57] Thinking Fast and Slow [1:02:10] People mentioned: Diane Halpern [1:00:57] Eric Mazur [1:01:05] Daniel Willingham [1:01:10] Maimonides [1:02:35] Benjamin Franklin [1:02:40] Thomas Jefferson [1:02:45] 1:57 - Intro to Ben, some information on the Minerva schools of KGI, why it’s the most effective university in the country, and some issues that most learning systems have. 8:45 - How Minerva teaches students more efficiently compared to other universities. 12:45 - The issue with far-transfer and how Minerva corrects this issue by contextualizing and recontextualizing concepts for the student. 16:07 - How Minerva’s online communicational teaching aspect works and how Minerva teaches creative thinking. 20:09 - Important and key elements that Minerva leaves you with after graduation, that other universities do not. 21:30 - Minerva’s pragmatic and efficient teaching style and its highly effective, personalized style of courses. 27:21 - How large Minerva’s current classes are, some info on it having the lowest acceptance rate in the country, and why their admission system is strictly based only on merit. 33:46 - Minerva’s unique global campus aspect and the incredible value of teaching students some of the skills necessary to live in the real world. 39:23 - The problem with going to universities based on reputation, rather than what you can learn from them. 43:04 - The issues Minerva faces with students who want to get involved and with obstinate parents. 45:11 - Ben’s thoughts on primary and secondary education, some more issues with university classes, how Minerva finds professors who actually want to teach. 52:21 - When Ben first received the idea for Minerva and the problem with other types of newer institutions. 55:47 - Some of the major iterations and learnings Minerva accomplished had so far. 58:33 - Ben on the science of learning and some information on Building the Intentional University. 1:00:47 - Some other books Ben recommends, some of his favorite authors, and inspirations. 1:03:26 - Some last thoughts from Ben and some information on applying to Minerva. 1:05:26 - Where to find Ben online and wrap up.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “The fact of the matter is that almost no one believes that education matters because people believe that the credential matters.”

“It’s never going to be easier to just learn and to make little money, than when you’re young and in the beginning.” In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined again by Neil Soni to do another one of our book deep dives, this time on Mastery by Robert Greene. Mastery is the best book that either of us have found at becoming a master of your craft, getting mentors, learning through experience, and reaching the top of your field. If you’re serious about self education and becoming known for your work, there are few better books that you could read to help get you there, and we covered many of the key lessons in this episode. This is also an exciting episode because it’s the launch of mine and Neil’s new podcast: “Made You Think,” which is dedicated to exploring books, articles, topics, and anything that set our minds on fire. The past episode on Antifragile was extremely popular, and this episode was a ton of fun recording, so we decided to run with it. Be sure to check out Made You Think to hear our episode on Letters from a Stoic, as well as listen to our Antifragile episode if you haven’t already. In this episode though, we covered: Finding your purpose and achieving skill mastery Reconnecting with your inner self Strategies for improving your life and progression Avoiding common mistakes that hinder growth Enduring pain to increase mental resilience Breaking through learning plateaus Remaining patient and trusting the process Improving your social intelligence to communicate better And much more. Enjoy! If you want more on Mastery, be sure to check out my notes on the book and pick up a copy yourself. And don’t forget to check out Made You Think for more podcast episodes like this one. If you enjoyed our discussion on finding a mentor, you’ll love my episode with Charlie Hoehn, where we talk about how to find your dream mentor. You’ll also like my episode with Justin Mares and my episode with Taylor Pearson, where we talk about apprenticeships, mentors, and more. If you’re a fan of long term learning and self-discipline, you’ll enjoy my episode with Scott Britton. Mentioned in the show: Made You Think podcast How to Become an Expert in Any Skill Tinder RTS games Fountains of Bellagio Procter and Gamble No Shampoo, No Conditioner article How To Get Up To Speed In Any Industry… Quickly article Candy Crush Deliberate Practice article Mattan Griffel Crucial Conversations Slideshow MomTrusted Morning Pages Cryptocurrency Teachable Neil’s brewing company Books mentioned: Mastery by Robert Greene (Nat’s Notes) Letters from a Stoic (Made You Think Episode) (Nat’s Notes) Antifragile (Nat’s Notes) (Nat Chat Episode) Excellent Sheep (Nat’s Notes) (Nat Chat Episode) Siddartha Deep Work (Nat’s Notes) Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind  (Nat’s Notes)               What Every Body is Saying The 48 Laws of Power (Nat’s Notes) Crucial Conversations The Art of Learning (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Robert Greene Neil Soni (Nat Chat Episode with Neil) Leonardo da Vinci Napoleon Bonaparte Charles Darwin Thomas Edison Martha Graham William Deresiewicz (Nat Chat Episode with William) Chaz Giles Justin Mares (Nat Chat Episode with Justin) Scott Adams Seneca Ernest Hemingway Michael Faraday Ignaz Semmelweis Peter Thiel Ankur Nagpal 2:03 - Start of the discussion. Nat discussing the layout of the book and how you can benefit from it. 7:58 - Anyone can become a master. Nat and Neil on the first steps to achieving mastery and on the first phase of the book, the apprenticeship phase. 12:10 - Focusing on your personal tendencies that hint at your purpose and thoughts on becoming more connected to yourself. 16:55 - Nat and Neil on Greene’s three steps for trying to reconnect with your calling and finding work that you truly enjoy. 19:14 - The large number of potential jobs that are there, but aren’t always easy to find. A few examples on this from Nat and Neil. 22:04 - Looking at your career as more of a journey with twists and turns, rather than a straight line. Also, some more ideas for finding the things that you’re really interested in. 27:27 - Speaking on learning everything that you can and then detailing the first steps of the apprenticeship phase. 33:12 - Discussing the importance of deliberate practice, deep work, and avoiding distractions to achieve optimal efficiency with your work. 36:47 - Greene’s strategies to help you complete the apprenticeship phase and for getting the most out of it. 40:22 - Trusting the process, not setting artificial metrics for yourself, and taking the harder options for more growth. 42:35 - Properly implementing feedback from your failures, the importance of trying different things, and broadening your skills. 45:25 - The necessity for having a mentor and learning from them.53:05 - Choosing the correct mentor, avoiding common mistakes with your mentor, and advice for properly learning from them. 59:20 - Developing social intelligence and improving your ability to navigate personal interactions. 1:06:01 - Strategies to acquire social intelligence and advice for better connecting to others. 1:10:20 - Advice and steps for thinking beyond those initial guidelines, sparking new creativity, and continuing your learning beyond the constraints of the skill. 1:19:58 - Strategies for avoiding emotional pitfalls, maintaining patience, and continually improving yourself. 1:26:18 - Giving yourself an environment to be creative and to actively explore contradictions in yourself and in the world at large. 1:28:35 - Fusing the intuitive with the rational and achieving mastery, seeing the world as it really is, and really trying to understand other’s perspectives. 1:35:17 - Wrap up and some final thoughts on the book. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast and remember to check out Made You Think at https://madeyouthinkpodcast.com

“Having many hobbies and interests can help because you end up developing a variety of talents which helps in always having something going on or always having some way to make money.” In this episode I’m joined by Shelcy Joseph. I found Shelcy through an article about her and her sister and how they’ve been building a lifestyle and fashion brand while living in NYC. Fashion does not seem like an easy business to get into, so it was interesting to hear about how she got into it and is building it up. She’s also an intense hustler. At one point she was juggling 6 gigs at once in order to fund her pursuit of this work, and I think she’s a perfect example of how you don’t have to make the money work right away. You can pick up side gigs and other work to make the finances work until your own thing takes off, without having to give up the passion project just to get a paycheck. We covered: How Shelcy managed six jobs at once Starting a fashion and lifestyle business in New York Finding the confidence to pursue nontraditional jobs Recommendations for inspirational figures and transformational books Advice from Shelcy to others who are pursuing creative solopreneur work Balancing your work life and passionate pursuits And a ton more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Shelcy on Twitter! If you’d like to hear more about having a diverse skillset and networking consistently, you should listen to my episode with Chris Chaney. If you enjoyed the bit about working more now to aid you in the future, you may like my episode with Justin Mares. Lastly, if you want to become a better learner and enjoyed our discussion on education, check out my episodes with Connor Grooms and with Scott Britton. Find Shelcy Online: Youtube Twitter Instagram Linkedin Facebook Mentioned in the show: The Muse Managing Six Side-gigs article Pennyhoarder Pennyhoarder article Rockefeller University Hunter College Pubmed PoshMark Ebay Goodwill Buffalo Exchange Canon EOS T5 camera Photoshop 80-20 principle Tim Ferriss Podcast Abstract Documentary What I Learned From 100 Days of Rejection Ted Talk Books mentioned: The 4-Hour Workweek The Defining Decade Lolita People mentioned: Gary Vaynerchuk Tim Ferriss James Altucher Fyodor Dostoyevsky Plato 1:17 - Intro to Shelcy, her story on managing six jobs at one point during her life and what those jobs were. 3:45 - How Shelcy acquired some of her more difficult jobs and her discussing the path she took after college.6:00 - Shelcy’s experience with her parents after she decided to pursue a nontraditional job that wasn’t in the neuroscience field where she received a degree. 7:23 - How Shelcy found the confidence to pursue a nontraditional job and to become a writer. 11:00 - Whether or not Shelcy plans to get into more neuroscience work in the future and how her knowledge in neuroscience has helped her in her jobs. 12:34 - Where Shelcy currently gets recent neuroscience and psychology information from. 13:30 - How Shelcy learned to apply her neurophysiology knowledge to work that’s based around lifestyle instead of work in the medical field. 16:55 - When and how Shelcy started her fashion and lifestyle company, NYCxClothes, and some background on the company. 20:22 - Some of the business partnership opportunities Shelcy gets from her fashion company. 22:36 - How some of the first brand deals happened for Shelcy and what has caused the most growth for her company. 25:35 - Shelcy’s goals for the company over the next couple of years and her discussing starting a clothing line in the near future. 30:00 - Shelcy speaking on the photography aspect of her business and her and Nat on learning photography. 33:14 - How Shelcy finds the balance between work and doing passionate things. 36:23 - Shelcy discussing the financial stability with some of her jobs, her experiences with financial stability, and the importance of taking time away from work to educate yourself more. 41:51 - Some of the people Shelcy follows for inspiration, knowledge, and for positive impact. 44:46 - Some other things outside of the business field that has had a large impact on Shelcy. Also, Nat and Shelcy speaking on the usefulness and timeless nature of books. 50:19 - Some pieces of advice, last thoughts, and some things Shelcy wished that she’d known sooner. 55:05 - Wrap up and where to find Shelcy online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“The most value you can get at this moment in time that’s such an easy reach, is to find someone that’s doing the exact same thing as you right now and that’s in a different company and just ask them ‘What are the problems you’re facing?’” In this episode I’m joined by Matthew Barby. Matt leads the global Growth and SEO strategy for HubSpot, a public company with thousands of employees, and has one of the best marketing and startup growth blogs on the Internet. He got that job when he was just a few years out of school because he worked relentlessly to master the kinds of marketing work that ended up getting him noticed there. He was working with a small agency, out of a shed as he puts it, and hammering away at trying to get sites more traffic day and night and learning everything he could along the way. For anyone who wants to know how they can quickly develop a valuable skillset and reach the top of their field… Matt is a great guy to emulate. We covered: Advice for improving your search engine rankings How you can master skills that you’re interested in Reaching out to others as a way to improve your skills Looking at failure more as a tool for growth rather than a setback Comparing yourself to others less and being happier with less And a ton more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Matthew on Twitter!   If you enjoyed our discussion on reaching out to others, you should check out my episode with Chris Chaney, my episode with Charlie Hoehn, and my episode with Justin Mares. If you want to learn more on becoming happier, you may like my episode with Angela Ma. Find Matthew Online: Matthew’s Blog Twitter Linkedin Mentioned in the show: HubSpot MozCon SEO Typeform Canva Sumo MozBlog People mentioned: Joe Chernov 1:33 - Intro to Matthew, him detailing a few recent travel experiences for HubSpot. 5:45 - Matthew’s recent speech at MozCon on running growth, failure, and SEO. 8:38 - What Matthew does for HubSpot and him discussing a bit about the company. 10:52 - How Matthew achieved his senior role at HubSpot while still reasonably young. 17:40 - Matthew speaking on how he learned to navigate a much larger company and on the learning curve he faced. 19:44 - Matthew’s process for finding people to gain new insights and information that are in similar company roles as himself. 23:30 - Advice for reaching out to others and tips for reaching out to others in similar fields as yourself to drastically improve your expertise. 28:57 - Nat and Matthew on SEO and their advice for learning SEO techniques. 32:33 - Matthew’s detailed process for assessing whether certain SEO techniques work or don’t work. 37:29 - Framing failures more as knowledge and education, instead of setbacks. Matthew also giving advice for setting goals and on high risk/reward situations in your job. 41:53 - What Matthew did before he received a job at HubSpot and how he learned to be highly proficient in SEO. 47:10 - How Matthew gained to confidence to go through a more difficult career approach after college and him speaking on the importance of persevering through hardships early on to have a larger payout in the future. 50:40 - Nat and Matthew’s advice for becoming happier with less and comparing yourself to others less often. 57:15 - Wrap up and where to find Matthew online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“If something doesn’t fit or feel right, it is ultimately not what we want to do or want it to be. It’s okay to say ‘I’m going to do something else." In this episode of Nat Chat I’m joined by Chris Chaney. He currently runs Chaney holdings, which is a combination of sports marketing and financing for sports related companies and teams. It all started when he graduated from college. He’d dreamed of working in the NBA, but when he got there, didn’t feel like it was the right fit, and quickly left to start his own sports marketing agency. He’s continued pursuing his interests, working with all kinds of athletes from basketball players to competitive video games, and followed his interests out into seemingly unrelated fields like startup investing and dinner experiences, which we start the episode by discussing. If you feel like you have a hard time picking one thing and sticking to it, like I do, Chris is a perfect example of someone who has taken that extremely diverse set of interests and built it into a company and lifestyle that’s successful and exciting for him. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Sports marketing and niche sport industries Career diversity as a form of leverage Unique targeting methods companies use on you Improving your networking and outreach skills The future of technology and what it means for the jobs market And a ton more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Chris on Linkedin! Mentioned in the show: Medieval Times LA Live Madison Square Garden Theater Psychographics Princeton University Adidas Under Armour ESports League of Legends Counter Strike Hearthstone Dota 2 New York Mets DARPA SEO Books mentioned: Ready Player One (Movie trailer) The Rational Optimist People mentioned: Neil Soni (Nat Chat episode with Neil) David Stern Show Topics 1:11 - Introduction to Chris, him detailing his journey through various industries and some of the important takeaways he received. 6:01 - Chris’ unique dinner attraction industry, some background on it, and how he started the business. 11:37 - Chris discussing what psychographics is, going in-depth on various ad targeting techniques used on people, and how companies use your personal data. 16:44 - How Chris would introduce himself at a cocktail party, him talking about his venture into eSports, and discussing what e-sports are in detail. 24:21 - The financial aspects of eSports and what Chris is currently working on in the eSports industry. 25:23 - How long Chris has been in the sports market and some of the things he’s done in that. 28:37 - How Chris got involved in the sports world and him detailing some of the things he’s accomplished. 35:14 - Chris speaking on how he earned the money to fund his entrepreneurial projects and speaking on his job with the NBA. 39:11- Chris’ experience with sport tech startups and him being introduced to niche sports. 42:27 - How Chris found investors for his projects. 45:55 - Chris’ process for great networking and him speaking on becoming more versatile with working in many different types of industries. 50:06 - How Chris reaches out to others and his perspective on doing that in a professional manner. 56:15 - How Chris’ passion for entrepreneurial type projects developed and his thoughts on quitting the wrong job. 1:06:16 - What Chris would pursue outside of the sports industry. 1:10:03 - Which book Chris would recommend to others and Nat and Chris’ thoughts on the future of technology. 1:15:44 - Wrap up and where to find Chris online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“If you talked about class, you’d have to acknowledge that most of these students are in an extremely privileged class position, and then they would have to see themselves as being part of the problem and not part of the solution.” In this episode I’m joined by William (Bill) Deresiewicz. I reached out to Bill because I loved his book, Excellent Sheep, and thought it provided a fantastic heuristic for college students to evaluate whether or not they’re thinking for themselves. It’s especially relevant now, since the concept of not thinking for oneself and following the flock has spilled over into a lot of the social justice warrior and bigoteering behavior, where students lambast and assault people for their beliefs without taking the time to understand them. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Improving your ability to think for yourself and why you should Tackling the issues with rallying and free speech on campuses How and why certain aspects of college have changed over the years Improvising more when you don’t have a plan after college If college is necessary for those going into trade If you enjoyed our discussion of the problems with the college climate, you’d also enjoy my conversation with Angela Ma about depression on campus and how to manage it. Or if you want more on finding work you’re passionate about, listen to my conversation with Thomas Frank who has helped thousands of students do just that. Find Bill Online: Bill’s website Twitter Wikipedia Mentioned in the show: On Political Correctness (Bill’s article) Middlebury Middlebury Protest Goldman Sachs Khan Academy Code Academy MOOC Carnegie Mellon Thiel Fellowship Books mentioned: Excellent Sheep People mentioned: Larry Summers Peter Thiel Jane Austin 1:10 - Intro to Bill and his thoughts on the protesting against speeches at various universities and him discussing the social justice warriors, political correctness, and privilege in colleges. 6:19 - Bill's thoughts on students latching onto ideas and rallying since they may be lacking that from their studies and work. Also, Bill details why thinking for yourself more often is important. 9:04 - Learning to think for yourself more, Bill’s perspective on this, and how college education has changed. 12:40 - Bill speaking on why college education has changed over the last several decades and him going into detail on the competitive aspect of colleges. 16:15 - How to navigate the college system as a student, and some advice on how to choose the right education and get the most out of that education. 19:38 - Bill’s advice on the problem of not having a plan after graduation and speaking on the importance of learning to improvise more often in your career life. 22:13 - Discussing the issue with your education becoming obsolete within five to ten years or A.I. replacing your job. 25:25 - Bill’s thoughts on the popularity of Khan Academy, other alternative learning sites, and colleges in the future. 28:03 - Advice for those looking to self-educate outside of the classroom and advice for those who feel as though they aren’t learning as much as they should in the classroom. 30:48 - Is college is worth it for those not interested in the typical learning experience and who want to go into the trade field? 35:03 - Bill speaking about the other changes to the education system over the past several decades and his thoughts on the tenure system in colleges. 40:43 - How we should tackle the issue of free-speech and rallying in students, and help them think more for themselves. 43:11 - Bill’s recommendations for students wanting to get better at thinking for themselves and to improve their learning. Wrap up afterward. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“If you don’t ask, you’ll never know. If you err on the side of asking, more opportunities will come your way.” - Kevin Miller In this episode of Nat Chat I’m joined by Kevin Miller. Kevin was the director of marketing for Spire when we had this conversation, and I wanted to bring him on for the interesting series of jobs and experiences that led him there. Kevin attended Georgetown University, and while everyone else there was focusing on the big typical careers, he was much more interested in getting into tech. He became a master at cold emailing people to try to learn from them and work with them, which led to conversations with Evan Spiegel, Mark Cuban, and getting the opportunity to sit in and shadow people doing marketing and other jobs in order to learn from them. He eventually ended up working at Google on their ads team, and after mastering how the ads system works, left to apply it to his own projects, including, among other things, getting thousands of dollars in free uber rides and food. If you need someone to light a fire under your ass for the benefits of cold outreach and direct mentorship… Kevin is the guy. He’s relentless, and it’s opened every major door in his life. We covered a lot, including: Mastering cold emailing and outreach and making it a consistent habit The importance of investing in one mentor at a time and being genuine with people Improving your public speaking skills to aid you in various areas of life Recognizing skills you lack and improving them through a variety of techniques Spending your time around people with desirable traits If you want more advice for further improving your cold emailing and outreach, be sure to check out my interview with Charlie Hoehn. You may also like my interview with Taylor Pearson for learning more about volunteering and direct mentorship, and my interview with Scott Britton for continuously improving your skills and charisma. Find Kevin Online: Twitter LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: Spire Georgetown University Wordpress Adwords Living Social True Ventures Sweetgreen Carnegie Mellon Lyft AirBnB Doorman Hotel Tonight Munchery UberEats PostMates Fiverr Patreon Meltwater Arena Ventures Books mentioned: Traction (Nat’s Notes) The Lean Startup (Nat’s Notes)     People mentioned: Adil Majid (Natchat Episode with Adil) Evan Spiegel Mark Cuban Max Friedman (Natchat Episode with Max) Kobe Bryant Show Topics 1:26 - Intro to Kevin and how he received thousands of dollars worth of free Uber rides using clever ad tactics. 3:26 - How Kevin got involved in the tech industry and what sparked his interest in tech related work. 6:37 - Kevin’s cold outreach tactic he used to successfully land an internship at True Ventures, a venture capital firm, where he worked at various portfolio companies. 8:33 - Kevin’s experience with learning business and content development from True Ventures’ portfolio companies and learning from skilled entrepreneurs on entrepreneurial success. 10:15 - What Kevin did after graduation and his learning experiences.12:15 - How Kevin got into the habit of continuously reaching out to people and some useful principles you can apply to your own outreach methods. 15:54 - What Kevin studied in college and his first experiences in entrepreneurship. 19:01 - How Kevin received a job working for Google, what he did there, and how he prepared for the job. 22:34 - Kevin leaving Google to pursue his own interests, learning more with different marketing acquisition channels, and finding a mentor that was crucial for his growth. 25:45 - Some of the other projects Kevin was working on and him eventually becoming a director of marketing for Spire. 31:01 - Some things Kevin had to learn while working at Spire and him detailing his process for recognizing lacking skills and efficiently improving them. 37:36 - Kevin speaking on majoring in business, what he learned, and how important improving your public speaking can be for success. 42:19 - Kevin’s experience with reaching out to Mark Cuban. 44:37 - How Kevin learned to perfect his cold email techniques, his experience with contacting Evan Spiegel, and some important career advice from Evan. 48:26 - One of Kevin’s favorite experiences with failure and some perspective on learning things based on analyzing failure and identifying the negatives. 52:36 - Kevin’s favorite books and experiences that had the most impact on his life. 56:37 - Some last pieces of advice from Kevin to everyone looking for better opportunities. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast  

“When you stop taking college seriously, treat it as a game, and treat everything you do while you’re there as exploring and trying new things. You get so much more out of it.” In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined again by Josh Lilien. As I mentioned last time, Josh reached out with a few questions for me around self-education, entrepreneurship, and breaking out of the traditional college path, and when it became obvious that he was thinking deeply about these issues, I suggested he interview me as another episode. We covered: How to maximize your exposure to positive opportunities and people Practical advice on how to take advantage of being a student The benefits from majoring in philosophy The impact of top tier schools on success and lifestyle Why you should prioritize foundational skills instead of trade skills Advice on how to reach out to others more effectively If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out my first podcast episode with Josh Lilien where I interviewed him: Find Josh Online: Twitter LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: Carnegie Mellon University Y Combinator LinkedIn How to Get Lucky: Maximizing Exposure to Life Changing Serendipity (Nat’s article) Yale University IBM PWC Wait But Why Stanford University Books mentioned: Traction (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Adil Majid (Nat Chat Episode with Adil) Neil Soni (Nat Chat Episode with Neil) Justin Mares (Nat Chat Episode with Justin) Charlie Hoehn (Nat Chat Episode with Charlie) 0:56 - Intro to Josh interviewing Nat and a quick description on Josh.2:08 - How going to Carnegie Mellon affected Nat’s career and work. 4:17 - The value of meeting intelligent people and exposure to them at Carnegie Mellon. 6:20 - Some advice for maximizing your exposure to people and giving yourself these networking opportunities. 8:18 - Why Nat switched from a business major to a philosophy major and some of the benefits he attained. 12:28 - The transition from business to philosophy and Nat’s thoughts on making the switch. 14:23 - Some preparation Nat did for Carnegie Mellon and some thoughts on the education system. 16:53 - Nat’s thoughts on the next shift to the infrastructure of education, thoughts regarding student debt, and the low applicability of degrees in trade. 24:10 - Nat’s advice for those wanting to stay in college and wanting to do something entrepreneurial. Also, Nat speaking on why you should develop more foundational skills. 28:43 - How students can take advantage of their time at college and some useful advice on how to get the most of out that time. 32:11 - Some other things you can take advantage of as a student and some advice for reaching out to people more effectively. 34:53 - Nat’s speaking more on reaching out to people more effectively and efficiently. 38:09 - Nat’s thoughts and experiences on the competitive aspect of college. 40:30 - Wrap up on the interview. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “Study the foundational things that are really interesting to you and then in your free time, pursue whatever trade skill you want to work on and get good at.”

“Study something where you approach problems in different and interesting ways.” - Josh Lilien In this episode of Nat Chat, I’m joined by Josh Lilien. Josh reached out to me after I started the podcast, sharing a few ideas of his own for how students can hack college, work on their own projects, and learn outside the classroom. After a few emails, I heard more about his story and wanted to bring him on the show. We covered a lot in this episode, including: Self-educating yourself when traditional education isn’t useful How to land an apprenticeship to obtain necessary skills Minimizing the time you spend in class to devote to other projects Harnessing the pressure of needing a good GPA to pursue difficult subjects Book recommendations from Josh to others interested in similar work Please enjoy, and reach out to Josh on Twitter! Find Josh Online: Twitter LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: CEGEP Founder Fuel Real Ventures Hubspot Nat Chat Episode with Adil How To Grow Blog Traffic From 0 to 10k Visitors Buffer Hootsuite Marketo Mailchimp Zapier The Next 36 MTL Blog Books mentioned: Traction (Nat’s Notes) Contagious (Nat’s Notes)      Made to Stick (Nat’s Notes) Founders at Work Atlas Shrugged Fountainhead                People mentioned: Neil Patel Seth Godin Elon Musk 1:08 - Introduction to Josh and him detailing his education path. 8:26 - Josh explaining how he got started with marketing, how he learned the skills for his job and the resources that helped him out the most. 13:17 - Josh detailing the issues with marketing education and how he was mainly self-taught. 17:04 - Utilizing the pressure of needing a good GPA to assist you in learning more difficult subjects and how you can reverse engineer your exams to minimize your time spent in class. 24:29 - Josh on learning paid ad positioning and him discussing what he is currently working on. 30:38 - Josh discussing his parent’s feelings regarding him pursuing his startup and following a non-traditional career path. 35:15 - Some books that were crucial for Josh’s success. 37:11 - Josh speaking on his positive experience with networking and his advice for others looking to pursue similar types of work. 40:00 - Wrap up and where to find Josh online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“Perhaps being deprived of poison makes us fragile and the road to robustification starts with a modicum of harm.” - Nassim Nicholas Taleb This is a new, experimental format for Nat Chat. Normally, I’m interviewing someone who broke out of the traditional college and post graduate career mold, but for this episode, I wanted to do something different. Neil Soni, who came on for Episode 7, rejoined me to do an in-depth breakdown of the book “Antifragile” by Nassim Nicholas Taleb. It’s a book that has come up repeatedly as having a huge impact on people’s thinking and is one of both of our favorite books. For me, Antifragile completely changed how I thought about work and life, and I use the concepts from it daily. It highlighted why the education system is so broken, how recent grads can get caught by “silent risks,” why we need to stop being so soft on ourselves and others, and a lot more. Neil and I tried to cover many of the major themes of the book and how to apply them. You’ll learn a lot from our discussion, including: Why you should build up your tangential skills to become more versatile with your work. The importance of incorporating small, positive lifestyle changes to become more robust in negative situations. Letting yourself feel negative emotions and experiences for personal growth. Why you should let your plans be more of a guide, instead of a restriction from other choices. How you can get luckier through positive luck exposure. Techniques for turning procrastination into productivity towards other things Enjoy! And if you want more on Antifragile, be sure to check out my notes on the book and pick up a copy yourself. Also, if you enjoy this episode format, please let me know on Twitter. Links from the Episode Mentioned in the show: You Can’t Say That Because You’re White No, Soylent isn’t Healthy. Here’s Why Bitcoin Welcome to Extremistan. Don’t Be A Turkey (Taylor Pearson) Benefits of Fasting Mom Trusted Estee Lauder How to Plan Your Ideal Day (Taylor Pearson) Optimizing for Optionality (Taylor Pearson) No Shampoo Article No Soap Article Study on Glove Bacteria Transfer Books mentioned: Antifragile (Nat’s Notes) Black Swan (Nat’s Notes) Traction (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Nassim Nicholas Taleb Neil Soni (Nat Chat episode with Neil) Barbara Streisand Milo Yiannopoulos Charlie Hoehn (Nat Chat episode with Charlie) Taylor Pearson (Nat Chat episode with Taylor) Justin Mares (Nat Chat episode with Justin) Gabriel Weinberg Show Topics 2:20 - Nat and Neil begin to explain the core concepts in Antifragile and discuss various examples of antifragility in today’s culture. 13:05 - Some thoughts on fragile and antifragile work environments. 15:38 - Various fragility contributing risks that you may be exposing yourself to and some lifestyle variables you can improve to promote personal antifragility. 20:40 - Nat and Neil speaking on recognizing potential vulnerabilities in your career. They are also discussing the importance of building up tangential skills to become more robust and versatile with your work. 23:08 -  How incorporating small stressors into your life can radically improve everything you do, and Nat touching some on a few of the health benefits from intermittent fasting. 35:24 - The importance of recognizing naive interventionism to allow you and others to experience possible, necessary life stressors to promote personal growth. 50:02 - Why you should try to let yourself feel your emotions naturally to learn and grow, instead of immediately turning towards artificial resolution. 54:57 - Benefiting from moments of procrastination and turning procrastination with one thing into productivity towards other things. 1:00:38 - Nat and Neil talking about Taleb’s barbell strategy; practicing extreme risk aversion or extreme risk loving in various situations, rather than taking consistent moderate risks. Also, going into detail on making wise investments with your wealth. 1:06:49 - Becoming more antifragile with your wealth and peer relationships by applying the barbell strategy to those areas. 1:09:43 - Letting your plans be more of a guide and not letting them restrict you from other opportunities. 1:16:40 - Spending more time experimenting with something and failing, rather than learning about it from a set of rules or someone else before experimenting. 1:21:15 - The importance of having a high optionality in various aspects of life to promote antifragility, especially with having time available for beneficial opportunities. 1:28:36 - Nat and Neil speaking on creating more optionality for yourself by removing the unnecessary and being aware of more naive interventions. 1:42:11 - Some closing thoughts from Nat and Neil on “Skin in the game”, which is making decisions based on if you have exposure to the downsides and upsides of those decisions. 1:45:47 - Wrap up and a quick overview of some healthy stressors you can incorporate into your own life. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “Whenever there’s a problem, the first question shouldn’t be, ‘What do I add to fix it?’ but rather, ‘What can I remove to fix it?’”

You meet people, you get yourself out there and you constantly try to get better. Because every time you do that, you expose yourself to potential lucky opportunities.” - Thomas Frank In this episode of Nat Chat I’m joined by Thomas Frank. Thomas was one of the people I’ve really wanted to have on since the beginning. While he was a student, he started “College Info Geek” which has become the most popular blog on practical tips for college students, whether they want to do better in school or go out and learn on their own. Since then, he’s also started two popular podcasts and a YouTube channel, and we dig into that whole evolution during the episode. We also covered: How Thomas paid off his $15,000 college debt before graduating Methods you can use to help find work that you’re passionate about Thomas’ methods for reaching out to others more effectively How Thomas taught himself design and got started with entrepreneurship Thomas and Nat’s thoughts for people who are interested in digital nomading And a ton more. Please enjoy, and reach out to Thomas on Twitter! Find Thomas Online: Thomas’ website YouTube Twitter Instagram LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: College Info Geek (Thomas’ blog) Napster Business Professionals of America AirBnB LinkedIn How to Build a Hanging Desk (Thomas’ article) How to Take Notes in Class (Thomas’ video) How to Read Your Textbooks More Efficiently (Thomas’ video) Thomas’ book on how to get better grades (free) Thomas’ Podcast ThinkCon Treehouse Finish Up Weekend CodeMonkey Udemy Code Academy Stack Exchange Thomas’ recommended books for students Books mentioned: The 4-Hour Workweek (Nat’s Notes) 10 Steps to Earning Awesome Grades (Thomas’ book)     Recession Proof Graduate Debt-Free U So Good They Can’t Ignore You (Nat’s Notes) Deep Work (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: Charlie Hoehn (Nat Chat episode with Charlie) Cal Newport 1:06 - Intro to Thomas and him speaking on how he got started with design and entrepreneurship. 6:22 - How Thomas made money during college on the side and paid off his debt before graduation. Also, he and Nat are speaking in-depth on digital nomading. 16:16 - Thomas speaking in detail on how he started College Info Geek and it’s progression. 20:11 - When and how College Info Geek started to become profitable. Thomas also speaking on the major events that promoted growth for the blog and him writing a highly successful book. 30:18 - How Thomas got motivated to help college students succeed and make better grades. 33:25 - Thomas’ plans for the future of his blog and YouTube channel and him speaking on the value of experimenting with various things as well as putting in a lot of work to see things through. 39:22 - Some of the largest misconceptions about college that Thomas notices with current students. 41:20 -  Thomas’ advice for students who are looking to make money and/or do their own kind of work. 44:48 - How Thomas learned to do web design early on and his advice for others looking to learn coding efficiently. 48:40 - Some things that Thomas wished he had known sooner in life and some methods he used to reach out to more people. 50:14 - Some books that Thomas would recommend to students at his college and some advice for getting more work done while in college. 53:19 - Some last thoughts and pieces of advice from Thomas to students. 56:04 - Wrap up and where to find Thomas online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“In the real world, people don’t care about a piece of paper. They care about the results you can generate for them.” - Connor Grooms In this episode of Nat Chat I’m joined by Connor Grooms. Connor is a master of learning things quickly. When he moved to Medellin a couple years ago, he set out to learn Spanish in One Month, which he filmed and turned into a documentary which has nearly a million views on YouTube. He took what he learned from that endeavor and started a Spanish tutoring company called BaseLang, which combines the system he came up with and unlimited one on one tutoring with native speakers. He’s been entirely self taught for everything he’s working on, and now his company employs 6 people full time with him and over 100 freelancers. Connor is also pretty interesting because he dropped out of school almost as soon as he started. Once he landed his first design client he dropped out, moved to Asia, and hasn’t been living full time in the U.S. since. We covered a lot in this episode, including: How to learn languages and potentially other things extremely quickly. The importance of having deep friendships. How college can cost you numerous opportunities in life and business. How experimenting and having fun projects can start a successful business or product. The importance of getting your genetics and blood tested for improved health. Why you should only focus on one thing at a time. Please enjoy, and reach out to Connor on Twitter!  Find Connor Online: Twitter His website Baselang.com Mentioned in the show: Baselang Learn Spanish Fast (Connor’s article) Promeathese 23andme Spanish in a Month (Connor’s documentary) Portuguese in a Week (Connor’s documentary) Disease of more How to be more productive TropicalMBA Tynan Connor’s TedX talk TedX Pubmed Cloudoptimus Books mentioned: The 4-Hour Workweek (Nat’s Notes)                The Boron Letters (Nat’s Notes) Break Through Advertising How To Lie With Statistics (Nat's Notes) Perfect Health Diet People mentioned: Mark Manson Dr. Alexis Shields Show Topics: 1:36 - Intro to Connor. Him speaking about how he learned to speak Portuguese in a week and his core concepts for learning a language quickly.5:20 - How Connor got inspired to learn languages rapidly and some advice from him on how to efficiently gain muscle mass as an ectomorph body type.7:57 - Some other things Connor has learned very quickly, some info on his recent nomadic lifestyle, and the importance of deep friendships. 14:30 - Connor speaking about how he learned to be more open with his feelings, thus building stronger relationships with people. 17:17 - How Connor found the passion for extreme self-improvement and his advice for getting the lifestyle you want. 21:51 - What made Connor realize that college wasn’t for him and him speaking about how college can cost you a lot of good opportunities.24:18 - How Connor got into design work, found his clients, and his recommended career path for those just leaving a university and who need to make money. 30:17 - Connor speaking about he he started his company Base Lang and how his company works. 32:16 - How useful experimenting and working on fun projects can be for creating a successful business or product. Connor and Nat are also speaking on the importance of focusing on one thing at a time here. 38:30 - Connor on how useful learning direct-response copy can be and some good books to read to learn copy. 40:45 - Nat and Connor on learning to read research papers, their thoughts on prevalent false research, and the importance of learning more about your genetics.  46:52 - Connor speaking on doing regular blood testing and how it can help you improve your health. 51:45 - Connor on getting apprenticeships, some good skills you could learn for profit, and some advice from him on how to optimize your time with business projects. 57:53 - Wrap up and where to find Connor online.If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “If you focus on getting good first and then making money, you’ll find profitability much faster.” - Connor Grooms

“I think that it’s more important in college to go after things that you truly love, have fun, and just to experience the most that you can.” - Angela Ma In this episode we have Angela Ma. Angela and I connected over an article she wrote titled “I Have a Problem with the Nation’s #1 High School.” In it, she discusses the issues of hyper competition and focusing on winning things that don’t matter that’s rampant at Thomas Jefferson high school, but also at elite high schools and colleges in general. We discussed the harmful effects of this extreme competition and how it’s led to students learning less and created a toxic learning environment, and what students who find themselves in it can do about it. But we also spent a lot of time discussing depression, Angela’s experience with it as a student, and her willingness to share her experiences publicly. She’s written about it publicly a number of times, and as a result, received a lot of inbound from other students experiencing similar emotions. We covered: The issues of hypercompetition and achieving things that don’t matter. Techniques you can use to manage depression in life and school. Issues that create negative and stressful learning environments for students. Becoming more comfortable with who you are as a person and choosing what makes you happy. Please enjoy, and reach out to Angela on her site! Find Angela Online: Angela’s blog Mentioned in the show: University of Chicago Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology I have a problem with the nation’s number one high school (Angela’s article) Angela’s post on what she does to manage depression 1:48 - Intro to Angela and her philosophy on the toxic, hypercompetitive environment found in many schools. She also details her and her peers experiences on dealing with that environment. 6:14 - Angela finding an outlet to help with the stress from her school and how she found the motivation to write about the problems she faced there. 11:03 - Angela on what the main issues are that are causing these negative academic atmospheres. 12:58 - Some of the ways Angela has seen people mitigate these issues. 15:40 - What problems Angela is currently noticing at the University of Chicago and some of the problems she is experiencing herself. 22:23 - Some of the things Angela learned that made her feel more comfortable with choosing a non traditional career path. 24:00 - Angela and Nat’s thoughts on cheating and on how large of an issue it is. 28:00 - Angela’s advice for people who feel stuck with the pressure to get perfect grades and get those end results instead of focusing on learning. 31:40 - Angela speaking about her experience with depression and her noticing it among her peers. 36:16 - What worked for Angela to pull herself out of depression phases and Angela’s advice for others experiencing depression. 39:38 - Angela’s thoughts and observations on campus health services and the issue with many of them. 42:52 - How Angela would advise someone going through some of the things that she noticed and went through. 45:27 - Angela speaking on how she found the confidence and comfort to share her story. 48:44 - Some of the things Angela has changed her mind about within the past few years regarding mental health, careers, and education. 52:10 - Wrap up and where to find Angela online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“Figure out the basics of a skill, focus on a specific element, push out of your comfort zone, and get feedback.” - Lucas Miller In this episode of Nat Chat we have Lucas Miller. I found Lucas through Max Friedman, who came on for episode 5, since Lucas used Max’s platform GiveButter in order to crowdfund his book Beyond Brilliance. As a student, Lucas went deep on the science of learning and memorization to figure out how he could rapidly accelerate his learning and make college effortless. No small feat considering he was attending UC Berkeley. After realizing how useful his learning hacking tactics were for himself, he and a small team combined their knowledge on learning and productivity into Lucas’s book Beyond Brilliance which you can find on Amazon or on his site at beyondbrilliance.org. We covered: Practical strategies you can use to learn anything Effective techniques for memorization, and which ones you should discard The usefulness of adding variety while you’re training certain skills The science of flow states and how to get into them Lucas’ efficient note taking method you can utilize while reading Please enjoy, and reach out to Lucas on Twitter! Find Lucas Online: Lucas’ Twitter Lucas’ Medium Beyond Brilliance Mentioned in the show: GiveButter Anki App Pomodoro technique Evernote Berkeley University Books mentioned: Beyond Brilliance (Lucas’ book) Moonwalking With Einstein (Nat’s book lessons) Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin The Power of Habit (Nat’s book lessons) Mastery (Nat’s book lessons) Thinking Fast and Slow The Paradox of Choice (Nat’s book lessons) A Mind for Numbers People mentioned: Max Friedman Tim Ferriss Malcolm Gladwell Anders Ericsson Ryan Holiday Maria Popova 1:31 - Intro to Lucas, his philosophy on our traditional school infrastructure, him speaking on optimizing learning, and him speaking on his book: Beyond Brilliance. 4:21 - Lucas’ techniques for attaining optimal memorizing ability, him on how to learn things efficiently, and useful tools you can use for studying. 11:48 - Lucas’ thoughts on what a perfect study system would look like, him speaking on the value of experimentation and sleep for learning, and the experiments that gave him the best results for improving studying potential. 23:09 - Lucas speaking on what the flow state is and the best way to get into it for optimal performance. 28:37 - Lucas’ qualms on the 10,000 hour rule for learning new things and speaking on what you should do to master things. 34:30 - Lucas on how beneficial reading can be for improving skills and Lucas detailing his efficient note taking system. 39:52 - Lucas’ technique on how to pick the best books to read. 41:06 - Which books Lucas would recommend to the incoming students at Berkeley. 45:04 - The biggest mindset shift Lucas had about education and learning. 47:02 - Lucas speaking learning from his favorite failure and what he is currently working on. 50:33 - Wrap up, some pieces of advice from Lucas on learning and education, and where to find Lucas online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“When you put in the effort to make something exceptional, the value you put in keeps compounding.” - Justin Mares In this episode of Nat Chat we have Justin Mares. Justin has had a wild journey through the entrepreneurship and marketing world since his sophomore year of college when he started a company to help incoming students find better roommates. After that shut down, he collaborated with Gabriel Weinberg to write the best selling book Traction, he ran growth for Exceptional Cloud Services which was acquired by Rackspace, he became a mentor for companies going through 500 startups, and he’s the founder of three businesses right now: Perfect Keto, Fomo, and Kettle and Fire, his main focus and where he spends most of his time. Justin was also my first mentor in the marketing world. He and I ended up chatting while I was a junior in college, I worked for him for a few months, and then we started Programming for Marketers together which was later acquired by General Assembly. We cover a wide range of topics, including: How Justin founded his bone broth company and other successful companies Justin speaking about the lucrative aspect of cryptocurrencies How Justin chooses mentors and how he chooses who to reach out to How Justin tests new companies for the potential of success Justin’s philosophy on taking the time to invest in your work for exponentially more profit Justin’s book recommendations and advice for college students and recent graduates Be sure to say hi to Justin after the episode on twitter @jwmares! Find Justin Online: Twitter His website Mentioned in the show: Bitcoin Ethereum Rackspace Cloud Fab 500 Startups Incubator Perfect Keto Fomo Kettle and Fire AlphaLab Value Compounds, Mediocrity Doesn’t (Justin’s article) Udemy AirBnB AA PayPal Books mentioned: Traction (Nat’s book lessons)                            The 4-Hour Workweek (Nat’s book lessons) Mastery (Nat’s book lessons) So Good They Can’t Ignore You (Nat’s book lessons) Deep Work (Nat’s book lessons) Peak (Nat’s book lessons) People mentioned: Gabriel Weinberg Scott Britton Cal Newport Malcolm Gladwell Robert Greene 1:20 - Intro to Justin and his experiences with cryptocurrencies such as Ethereum and bitcoin. 6:37 - Justin speaking about starting his first company, his learning experiences during that time, and his experience working with Exceptional Cloud Services and Cloud Fab. 11:38 - Justin on writing the book Traction with Gabriel Weinberg. 14:22 - Some of the other projects Justin worked on during his time at Rackspace and some valuable lessons he learned. 23:58 - How Justin figured out how to start his bone broth company Kettle and Fire and make bone broth. 25:37 - Justin on buying the company Fomo and him speaking about starting the company Perfect Keto. 28:59 - Justin’s testing procedure for potential companies to start and some lessons he learned from tests that didn’t work. 33:03 - How Justin practiced coming up with new ideas and his philosophy on investing time and quality in companies for exponentially more profit. 35:58 - How Justin manages his time while dealing with all of his companies and some of his current side projects. 40:12 - What Justin’s college experience was like and how he found the motivation to pursue large projects. 46:02 - How Justin found most of his mentors, his experience with networking, and how he chose who to reach out to. 51:22 - Justin’s experience with his parents while pursuing non-traditional jobs. 55:03 - Justin and Nat on video games, the competitive aspect of them, and the potential transfer to real world skills and habits. 58:20 - Justin’s book recommendations to the students at the University of Pennsylvania. 1:01:07 - Some last pieces of advice for recent grads and college students from Justin. 1:02:38 - Wrap-up, where to find Justin online, and where you can reach out to him. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “You’re not going to make a lot of money long term, by churning out low quality work.”

“You gotta pick where you want to go, if you don’t, you’re going to go nowhere.” - Darwish Gani In this episode I’m joined by Darwish Gani. Darwish started down the investment banking path in college, but as he approached graduation, decided he wanted to work on something he was more passionate about. After starting one company and working as a product manager at another startup, he started an alternative education company focused on supplementing college students education with more programming training and experience. That company, Horizons, offers summer programs for students to get an intense hands-on programming bootcamp and apprenticeship over the summer. And their latest experiment, Horizons One, is a two year tuition free program to teach students everything they need to know to work in tech, and then set them up with a co-op program where they can apply those skills hands on. We talked all about how Darwish started this company, what the motivation was, how students learn during it, how students can self educate, why STEM jobs don’t get the same sex appeal as traditional industries, and some of his goals for influencing how young people learn and enter the workforce. Some of the topics we covered: How Darwish started a technology school, and learned how to teach programming The importance and tactics of proper networking The power of finding your direction in life and taking action on it Darwish’s advice for students who don’t yet have a set career path Advice from Darwish on good software engineering, and why schools teach it poorly Also, registration for Horizons One, the two year co-op program, is currently open until the end of June. So if you check it out and think it looks like a good opportunity, I would definitely encourage you to apply. I don’t get any kickback or anything, I just like what Darwish is working on and think it could be a great opportunity for anyone listening Please enjoy, and reach out to Darwish on LinkedIn! Find Darwish Online: Horizons LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: Horizons JavaScript Jeff Bezos’ shareholder letters Books mentioned: Talent is Overrated         Zero to One 1:36 - Intro to Darwish and Horizons. 8:18 - Darwish telling his story and him speaking on how he got interested in helping people with technology education. 15:12 - How Darwish got in the habit of networking and reaching out to people. 17:57 - Darwish speaking on how he found the confidence to start his company after college. 19:04 - How Darwish’s school shows it’s students a new perspective and gives them a renewed sense of confidence. 20:34 - Darwish’s favorite speaker that has been brought in to speak to his students and what the speaker showed them. 22:15 - How Darwish found out how to teach students and start his school. 24:17 - Darwish speaking about how his school is based on teaching JavaScript currently. He is also speaking on the supply and demand of certain jobs here. 30:07 - Darwish’s thoughts on existing computer science programs and how they teach students. 33:25 - Darwish on how Horizons students work and him speaking on how the Horizons programs are honed to teach more important skills compared to a traditional program. 35:49 - Some of Darwish’s favorite books that have shifted his mindset and taught him the most and him speaking on the importance of picking a direction to where you want to go. 39:29 - Darwish’s top priorities other than running Horizons and how he stays balanced between them. 44:20 - What Darwish going into detail on what he wished he knew sooner and what advice Darwish would give to people who don’t have a set career path yet. 47:54 - Darwish speaking on when applications are available for Horizons and where to find Darwish online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“There is such value while going through that period of uncertainty with your business to have someone there with you to help you overcome the insecurities and doubts that you have.” - Scott Britton In this episode of Nat Chat  we have Scott Britton. Scott is currently the co-founder and head of growth for Troops, a slackbot that helps sales teams integrate easier with Salesforce, and his path there was all but conventional. When Scott graduated, he went to work for an athlete management company to live out his dreams of being Jerry Maguire, but quit after just a few months. He then helped someone grow their startup, transitioned into starting his own company, and then when that shut down, started teaching professional skills in person, online, and making money through courses. He got looped into a community of other online educators pretty quickly, and ended up moving to Brazil with them for a while to work on his site, Life-Long Learner, as well as his podcast, The Competitive Edge. This episode is perfect for you if you’re interested in entrepreneurship, networking, lifestyle businesses, building a brand, learning sales and marketing, or if you’ve ever fantasized about running off to another country for a bit. We covered: How straying from a linear career path and taking risks can improve your success What you should prioritize your time on while in college The usefulness of aggressive networking and improving your charisma How Scott learned discipline and determination during college How Scott continuously avoided learning plateaus And at the end of the episode, Scott has a challenge for you, so be sure to watch for that. Please enjoy, and reach out to Scott Britton on Twitter! Find Scott Britton Online: Twitter Scott’s website LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: Troops Scott’s podcast: The Competitive Edge Skillshare Udemy Charisma on Command Lavo EOFire Goldman Sachs Wall Street Journal Books mentioned: The 4 Hour Work Week (Nat’s Notes) Never Eat Alone (Nat’s Notes) People mentioned: John Lee Dumas 1:50 - Who Scott is, his background, what he does, and Scott sharing his personal experience with quitting a job to find his path in life. 5:28 - Scott’s wisdom regarding finding the right career path, the power of trying many different jobs, and on optimizing progression. 11:39 - Scott’s first experiences with entrepreneurship, him being aggressive with networking, and having his first startup. 16:25 - Scott on leaving his first startup to join another company to get back to his passions. 20:40 - Scott on hitting a learning plateau, starting his website, and eventually leaving his job to teach on Skillshare and Udemy. 26:20 - Scott beginning to work with the founders of Charisma on Command, quitting his job, and moving to Brazil to teach startup business development. 32:02 - Scott starting his podcast, starting webinars, and moving back to New York to cofound Troops. 40:11 - Scott’s experience with the pressure to succeed and to do what he wanted. Also speaking on what he studied in college. 43:11 - Scott on how his athletic rigor during college correlated into grit, discipline, positive habits, and determination in the working world. 44:48 - What Scott would have done differently in college knowing what he knows now and him speaking on what he regarded as true in college, that he now knows as false. 49:41 - Scott’s favorite questions that he asked himself for reflection. 51:43 - Scott’s book recommendations to incoming freshmen and seniors at Princeton. 52:41 - Wrap up, an interesting challenge from Scott, and where to find Scott online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “When you spend an additional forty hours a week on an extracurricular activity in addition to college, you learn a level of balance and discipline that makes life much easier.” - Scott Britton

“Trust the process, follow your curiosity, and don’t get to wrapped up in what other people are doing.” - Neil Soni In this episode of Nat Chat we have Neil Soni. Neil and I originally connected over Twitter a few years ago as members of a startup incubator alumni network. While Neil was an undergrad, he started a company called “College Zen” to help prospective students get matched up with current students to get a real feel for the school. That startup didn’t work out, but the people he met and the experience he got from it turned into his next few roles, including his most recent work, as an “innovation consultant” for Estee Lauder. I wanted to talk to Neil for a few reasons: He’s had an extremely varied career during and after college, from starting that first company, to leading growth at another, to doing this innovation consulting, and now starting a beer company of all things. He is one of the more well read people I know, and draws deeply from history, philosophy, and science in his discussions. These can lead to really wide ranging discussions on anything when we talk, and our catch ups tend to run about as long as this interview. And he’s also great at testing ideas while maintaining safe alternatives. He was able to try out a number of startup ideas while doing his consulting work, giving him the best of both worlds. A steady income he could rely on, but also the flexible hours he needed to test startup ideas. Now that one’s working, he’s able to leave with much more security than he would if he were jumping in blind. We cover a wide range of topics, including: Optimizing for learning versus wealth Testing startup and business ideas How Neil has landed such interesting work roles, and what an “innovation consultant” is Developing skills on your own, marketing or otherwise How Neil chooses what to read, and how he learns from the books he reads What Neil did and would have done differently with his college education Philosophy, psychology, books, podcasts, blogs… you name it Please enjoy, and reach out to Neil on Twitter! Find Neil Online: Twitter Instagram Neil’s website LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: Estee Lauder AlphaLab Mom Trusted No Wait Y Combinator University of Pennsylvania Carnegie Mellon University Unlimited Brewing Company Ideo Amway Neil’s article on commodity versus luxury Procter and Gamble Booz Allen Dangers of Ibuprofen and other NSAIDS Gen Next People Naval Ravikant Tim Ferriss John Keay Books Mentioned 33 Strategies of War 48 Laws of Power The Secret Count of Monte Cristo   Infinite Jest The Book of Five Rings Everything is Obvious The Image Complete Joy of Homebrewing Happy Accidents Meditations Letters from the Stoic Discourses Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance Atlas Shrugged Fight Club (Neil’s recommendation for students) Antifragile Podcasts Mentioned Jocko Joe Rogan Hardcore History Sam Harris Tim Ferriss 2:12 - Intro to Neil, what he currently does in the cosmetic industry, and how he got his job. 11:53 - How Neil started his first company, College Zen. 23:36 - Neil moving on from his startup onto working with Mom Trusted and what he ended up doing afterwards. 26:10 - How Neil learned to test his company College Zen and his first experience with entrepreneurship. 30:48 - Neil speaking on himself currently starting up Unlimited Brewing Company and it’s mission. 34:33 - What Neil learned about companies while working for Estee Lauder. 44:03 - Neil on optimizing for learning and optimizing for wealth. 48:04 - Neil speaking on the importance of networking and providing some tips for reaching out to people. 56:41 - Neil on commodity versus luxury and why it’s important. Neil’s article on this here. 1:05:00 - Neil speaking on the habit of reading, thoughts on books, and some book recommendations. 1:19:59 - How Neil chooses which books to read and his perspective on learning things from books. 1:30:15 - Neil speaking about spending time on grades in school versus learning skills. 1:36:12 -  Neil speaking on “safe” volatile jobs versus spending time on learning valuable skills that translate well to numerous companies. 1:44:08 - Neil’s experience with his parents on making the choice to focus more on skills and projects rather than getting better grades. Also continuing to speak on learning valuable skills that you can be more versatile job-wise with. 1:51:23 - Neil’s experience with depression while being a student and as a post-grad. Also speaking on the importance of being open while connecting to people. 2:01:07 - Neil and Nat speaking on the power and value of stoicism. 2:10:20 - Neil’s learning experience with the use of crowdsourcing projects and having people invest in companies going bankrupt. 2:17:10 - What Neil would have done differently in college knowing what he currently knows and on how what you learn in college can translate loosely into real world field work. 2:31:19 - Which podcasts Neil thoroughly listens to and some of his favorites. 2:34:40 - Neil’s favorite failures and what he learned from them. 2:40:27 - Neil’s one book recommendation to incoming freshmen at Carnegie Mellon University. 2:48:12 - Neil’s last thoughts and some advice he wished he had as a student. 2:50:30 - Wrap up, where to find Neil online, and a last piece of wisdom on Neil. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast “In college, you’re paying other people to teach you, but in the real world you can get paid to be taught.” - Neil Soni

“Just because you fail once, doesn’t mean you’re always going to fail.” - Helen Guo In this episode of Nat Chat we have Helen Guo. Helen attended Georgetown University and was on a pretty typical path until the last minute. She’d interned with and accepted a full time offer from the investment bank Morgan Stanley, and then right before she would have started working with them, she reneged on her offer and decided to work for herself instead. Since then, she started a company providing on the go phone charging around NYC, doing healthy food delivery, and now most recently, designing and selling a low calorie low carb pasta. I know that sounds like a contradiction, but she explains how she’s been able to make that work in the interview. We covered a lot in this episode, including: Helen’s experience during and after college working for herself How she started pursuing these kinds of projects How she’s been able to systematically meet accomplished people in her field How she’s maintained a good relationship with her parents who were against this career shift And the emotional challenges that come from this kind of work and how to handle them Please enjoy, and reach out to Helen on Instagram or LinkedIn! Find Helen Online: Helen’s Instagram Balloon Foods Instagram Helen’s LinkedIn Mentioned in the show: Morgan Stanley Georgetown University LinkedIn Base Camp Tuft and Needle Casper The Lean Startup (book) 1:48 - Introduction to Helen and Helen speaking about traveling cheaply. 5:00 - Helen speaking about creating Balloon Foods and her gluten free, low-calorie, low-carb pasta. 9:43 - Helen speaking about her former food delivery company and a background on her passion for food. 12:09 - Helen on turning down a job at Morgan Stanley, to pursue her passions in the food industry. 15:11 - Her introduction to entrepreneurship with starting up a portable charger idea after college. 17:31 - Helen on dealing with her parent’s negative reactions in regards to her turning down a job at Morgan Stanley to become an entrepreneur. 21:17 - How Helen funded her entrepreneurial projects after graduation. 22:50 - Helen on how beneficial networking in her entrepreneurship class and reaching out to people was. 25:07 - Helen’s template for reaching out to founders and other marketing figures successfully. She also speaks on the important connections she’s made doing that. 30:20 - How Helen spent her free time during college. 32:36 - Her speaking about not really having a passion for her studies during college and how important the networking aspect of college was for her.  35:49 - Helen on learning Arabic in high school and throughout college. She also speaks about her passion for language.  37:38 - Helen’s experience with depression during college and with starting companies. 39:12 - How Helen handles her depression, her advice for others, and on the importance of including healthy habits into your routine.  45:21 - Helen’s hobbies and things she does when not working. 46:25 - Her speaking on learning from failure and her advice for starting up a company. 49:27 - Helen on the insights that failing can give someone and the power of perseverance. 50:53 - Helen’s one book recommendation for freshmen going into Georgetown. 52:21 - Helen’s advice for people going after non-traditional career paths and what she wished she would someone would have told her as a student. 53:52 - Wrap up and where to find Helen online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“Find the thing that gets you excited, because that’s the thing that’s going to drive you through the hard times and the good times.” - Max Friedman In this episode of Nat Chat we have Max Friedman. Max and I first got in touch three years ago when he was still in college, working on an app for finding local events called “Happening.” The app didn’t work out, but he’s worked on a number of startup related projects since then including his latest, GiveButter, which is a fundraising platform specifically targeted at engaging young people, a demographic normally inclined to donate. I wanted to have Max on for a few reasons: First, he was completely self taught at programming, which allowed him to build that first app as well as his subsequent projects, and we dive into how he taught himself that during the episode. Second, Max was relentless about experimenting and trying new projects as a student, which eventually led to GiveButter which he’s able to work full time on now as a graduate. Third, while many of the guests on this show figured out they wanted to do their own work post graduation, Max decided it early on, and did everything he could to make it happen before graduation which he succeeded at. We covered a lot in this episode:  How Max started working on these entrepreneurial projects How his and his roommates viral marketing stunt took off and turned into GiveButter How he dealt with failure and shutting down his first startup How to think about “financial freedom” How he negotiated with his professors to work on his own projects in class How he got into more of a “skills mindset” instead of a “gpa mindset” Please enjoy, and if you’re a student interested in working with Max, definitely check out the summer opportunities available at GiveButter! Find Max Online: Max’s Twitter Givebutter Mentioned in the show: WSJ Article about WeGiveTwo GW Startup Fair Github Sticky Notes (app) Y Combinator Box.com Thiel Fellowship The Lessons of History (book) 1:50 - Introduction on Max and some background on his company, Givebutter. 9:23 - Max’s route to starting the company Givebutter. 11:44 - How max taught himself programming and coding. 15:57 - Max’s learning experiences on developing his first app. 23:10 - Max’s stresses regarding financial security and him moving on to doing freelance work. 28:15 - Max and Nat on living frugally and the vital insights it can give you. 31:56 - Max speaking on how valuable mentors can be and his struggles with being independent during the start of his entrepreneurial endeavors. 39:12 - How Max handled his self doubt in entrepreneurship, some advice on it, and college hacks he used to save time to spend on entrepreneurial projects. 44:55 - How Max went from caring more about GPA and grades to caring more about tangible skills and experience. 47:55 - Max on the value and usefulness of going to college. 54:08 - What Max would do differently if he went back to college knowing what he knows now. 57:43 - Max speaking about being self taught, his experiences in learning skills, and his first experience being an entrepreneur. 1:02:57 - Max’s experience with his parents on making the decision to start his company and on him getting into entrepreneurial work. 1:08:19 - Max’s favorite failure during his journey and his top book recommendation for a freshman. 1:10:23 - Advice and wisdom from Max to students out there. 1:12:27 - Wrap up and where to contact Max online. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“The irony is that you do so much better, when you stop caring about the outcome and start connecting in the moment and being your best.” - Charlie Hoehn Charlie graduated in 2008 into one of the worst job markets in history, and after a few months of fruitlessly throwing his resume out on Monster, started cold emailing entrepreneurs he wanted to work with. That soon led to working with Ramit Sethi, Tucker Max, and eventually Tim Ferriss who he worked with for three years. Charlie took what he learned from landing these mentorships and compiled it into a book, “Recession Proof Graduate,” which has been read by hundreds of thousands of people around the world, and was one of the first books that inspired me to get off the traditional college path. But then, something happened. Charlie stopped feeling like himself, and after a particularly crazy week of work, realized he was developing anxiety that was having a growing negative impact on his life. It soon reached the point where, as he said, his own girlfriend didn’t even recognize him, and only after trying everything under the sun did he stumble on play as a means of getting out of that mental state and getting control back over his life. We dive into all of this during the episode, including: What makes someone stand out when reaching out for mentorship How to develop skills, on your own, that you can pitch to people you want to work with Ways to make the money work while you’re doing the free work you’re excited about Why you can’t rely on great grades and a degree to get you a job How to treat and prevent anxiety through play Ways to bring more play into your life and avoid the busy trap As always, show notes and more can be found at: https://nateliason.com/podcast Find Charlie Online: Charlie’s website Charlie’s Twitter Charlie’s Amazon page     Mentioned in the show: Monster.com Recession Proof Graduate (book) Play It Away: A Workaholic's Cure for Anxiety (book) Charlie’s Play for a Living book Kickstarter campaign Buffer Programming for Marketers Career Builder I Will Teach You To Be Rich Tim Ferriss Book in a Box Play (book) Man’s Search for Meaning (book) Pandemic (board game) Slomo (video) Supermensch (movie trailer) 2:30 - Introduction 8:35 - Charlie’s story, him speaking on beginning his career, and doing unpaid work to find valuable connections. 18:00 - How Charlie made ends meet while doing unpaid work in the field. 22:03 - Charlie’s advice on how to reach out to people and succeed. 30:12 - Charlie on how he learned certain skills to offer to people. 32:52 - How Charlie found freelance jobs to hone his skills. 40:03 - Charlie speaking in-depth on anxiety and living more playfully. 51:07 - Charlie on the power of play, it’s benefits, and how vital it is for well-being. 1:06:51 - Simple ways you can bring more play into a busy lifestyle. 1:11:39 - Charlie’s advice on how to meet people with similar interests. 1:14:53 - Charlie’s wisdom for college students and the importance of creating your own agenda. 1:18:44 - Wrap up. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe at https://nateliason.com/podcast

“Spending ten hours a week putting together a portfolio of your skills in college will often turn into a business before you even get the degree.” - Taylor Pearson In this episode of Nat Chat, we have Taylor Pearson, author of The End of Jobs and writer on business, psychology, philosophy, and other related topics on his site taylorpearson.me. Taylor is a super-smart, young guy, who I wanted to bring on because he has a very interesting history and set of experiences that are relevant to anyone looking to pursue a non-traditional college path. He graduated with a history degree but ran off to Brazil, taught himself marketing, and started landing freelance gigs with a number of different companies in the states. That turned into working closely with a few location independent entrepreneurs who he ended up traveling around the world with, which all led to observations he made about the changing job market and emergence of entrepreneurship which he wrote about in his book, The End of Jobs We cover a wide range of topics in this episode, including: “Silent risk,” and how college students expose themselves to it Heuristic vs. Algorithmic skills, and the importance of focusing on heuristic ones How he taught himself the skills to land his initial freelance gigs Turning those experiences into more direct apprenticeships and finding mentors Becoming a writer, and how he supports a creative life How he managed the expectations of his peers and parents while getting started And a ton more. It was a great interview and a fun conversation, so please enjoy, and be sure to reach out to Taylor on Twitter and check out The End of Jobs as well as Get Apprenticeship. As always, you can find the full show notes at: https://nateliason.com/podcast Find Taylor online: Taylor’s Twitter Taylor’s Website The End of Jobs on Amazon Mentioned in the show: Empire Flippers SEO Moz Tropical MBA Upwork Cynefin framework 4-Hour Work Week (book) Get Apprenticeship Ink 5000 Wordpress Man’s Search for Meaning (book) Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (book) Principles (pre-order currently, book), free PDF here 1:25 - Introduction and Taylor's start in business. 19:17 - Taylor talking on “silent-risk”, safe jobs vs. artist entrepreneurship. 25:32 - College pushing graduates into silent-risk scenarios, why we should take smaller risks often rather than taking large risks less often. 33:38 - Taylor on which skills show longevity in usefulness vs. skills likely to be outsourced or automated.37:25 - Taylor on finding creative work, measuring your skill longevity.38:45 - Taylor speaking about grades and correlation with heuristic skills. 39:58 - Speaking of going back to college knowing what he knows now, whether or not to focus on getting good grades compared to focusing on side projects and networking. 43:58 - Taylor’s recommendations on getting out of the silent risk scenario. 46:37 - Taylor’s advice on students getting an apprenticeship for their skill. 48:19 - His steps for entrepreneurial-type goals and becoming self-supporting. 55:18 - Recommendations on getting over the hurdle of beginning entrepreneurship obstacles. 58:28 - Taylor speaking on dealing with opinions of peers and parents on taking risks. 1:00:30 - Speaking on ADHD, dissatisfaction and Taylor’s experiences and opinions on it. 1:08:33 - Taylor’s book recommendations to freshman at college and in general. 1:11:39 - Wrap up. If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe!

“If you think you are interested in something, do it and validate or invalidate it as quickly as you can, it’s fine if it’s haphazard.” - Adil Majid For the first real episode of Nat Chat, I sat down with my close friend, housemate, and co-conspirator on countless projects, Adil Majid. Adil had an unconventional and wide-ranging college experience that would give reassurance to anyone who feels like they don’t have a plan. After spending his first two years focused on a more traditional consulting career path, he decided it wasn’t for him, and started working on a number of other projects. Those soon led to getting into Y-Combinator, and when he had to leave that project (it’s a fun story we cover in the episode), rapidly teaching himself design, taking on freelance projects, and eventually landing internships and work with silicon valley startups that led to his job now doing software design for Spire. We cover a wide range of topics, including: How Adil taught himself design How he found mentors to learn from How he handled depression and rejection when first starting to go down this path How he stumbled into realizing he loved design mostly on accident How his parents reacted to him going a non-traditional route, and how he handled it And a ton more. It was a really fun way to start the show off, so please enjoy, and reach out to Adil on Twitter! And as always, you can find the full show notes at: https://nateliason.com/podcast 2:22 - About Adil, who he is, what he does, and where he is in life right now. 3:00 - Adil’s beginning passion with design and his self-taught rise in design work. 5:47 - Adil dealing with the expectations of his peers and parents. 7:28 - How Adil’s habit with design began and his start on following his passions instead of his peer’s expectations. 9:32 - When Adil realized work in design was a legitimate career path for him, then switched from business and politics to design. 11:24 - Adil meeting his first mentor on his internship at a startup and then pursuing design work. 12:24 - How he improved his skills in design. 13:47 - How finding mentors, taking certain college classes, doing freelance projects, reading books, and online feedback really helped him gain expertise in design. 16:14 - How Adil found his freelance clients and how he figured out pricing for his first jobs. 19:05 - Which college classes aided Adil the most and how the environment at college helped him. 21:03 - Adil on leaving for a semester, parental and social pressure with switching his career path. 22:30 - How Adil learned more on his college leave, than he had learned in the two and a half years he spent at college. Adil also discusses dealing with peer judgment here. 27:20 - Adil on being self-taught and having success versus success with a college education. Adil also on being fearful of failure in the design career field. 30:05 - How Adil found jobs in design. 35:34 - Things that helped Adil through college when faced with uncertainty in design and not following the traditional path. Adil and Nat also talk about the parental concern with financial security after college. 42:25 - Adil talks about the design recruitment and having a degree versus not having one. 45:35 - Adil speaks about techniques to overcoming depression during college, the numerous rejections from employers, and insurance to fall back on after college. 52:34 - Adil on being happier during college, making the most of it, overcoming challenges, and benefitting from failure. 56:45 - Nat and Adil on knowing when to quit projects or startups that may fail. 1:01:39 - Adil’s advice for new students and information to people with the design career in mind. Mentioned in the show: Jonathan Chen’s Twitter (Adil’s first mentor) Spire OpenCurriculum AngelList Day One app Student Voice Designer News Y Combinator Adil’s Design book recommendations: The Design of Everyday Things   Change by Design The Best Interface is No Interface Sprint Thinking with Type Designing the Obvious

What do you do if you’re a college student or recent grad, who feels like they don’t fit in the world of grades, lecture halls, and one size fits all careers? What do you do if… You don’t like classes and don’t learn well in them? You feel like the typical career prospects aren’t exciting? You’re depressed from being locked into a one size fits all system? You feel like your peers and parents don’t support you going a non-traditional route? You want to be an artist, entrepreneur, early startup member, or anything else that doesn’t fit the common mold? There’s no clear roadmap or good system for college students to pursue these alternative career paths, and I want to make them more accessible for more students through these interviews and episodes. Be sure to subscribe for future content, and check out the other launch episodes! All show notes can be found at https://nateliason.com/podcast