Podcast appearances and mentions of Edward P Jones

This week on the KPL Podcast we have debut author Lucas Schaefer to tell us about his novel, The Slip.  This is an American novel about a missing teenage boy, cases of fluid and mistaken identity, and the transformative power of boxing. This novel was named a Most Anticipated Book of 2025 by The New York Times, The Washington Post, and NPR.  Listen to learn more. Author Reads:White Teeth by Zadie SmithNW by Zadie SmithA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganLeg: the Story of  Limb and the Boy Who Grew from It by Greg MarshallAfterlives by Abdulrazak GurnahParadise by Abdulrazak GurnahBig Swiss by Jen BeaginThe Known World by Edward P. Jones

Multi-disciplinary musician and artist, Drew “Hondo” Felder, joins Brittany and Jeannetta for Episode 6. Drew "Hondo" Felder is a true multidisciplinary artist who has written fiction for over 25 years and played music professionally for 15. Throughout his artistic journey, he has composed and played parts for other artists; created themes and sound design for short films, games, and commercials; and is currently the bassist of two all original bands. Audio engineering is among his other pursuits both live and in the studio. Outside of music, Drew is also honing his skills in videography, motion graphics, and video post-production. Combining many of these skills, he started his own Youtube channel, Hondo Felder Music and supports other artists and content creators with the technical side of the media creation process. You can follow him on Instagram @hondofelder. The group   discuss pacing and time across music and writing. The discuss how time is expressed within and outside the work, how to incorporate tension and dissonance and the relationship between a work's purpose and pacing.    Edward P Jones,  “The First Day”, Lost in the City  “Purple Rain”, Prince “Stakes is High”, De La Soul and “Stakes is High”, Robert Glasper + Mos Def Chris Dave, drummer  Derrick Hodge, bass player Matt Bell,  Refuse to Be Done Max Gladstone, Amal El-Mohtar, This is How You Lose the Time War  Sarah J Maas, A Court of Thorns and Roses Series Karen E. Binder, “Adjusting Your Pace: How to Get  A Story to Move”, https://electricliterature.com/adjusting-your-pace-how-to-get-a-story-to-move/  Game of Thrones  James Kaplan, 3 Shades of Blue: Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Bill Evans, and the Lost Empire of Cool

¿Pueden las víctimas convertirse en opresores? En El mundo conocido, Edward P. Jones nos lleva al corazón de un complejo sistema de esclavitud en el que negros libres también eran dueños de esclavos. Un episodio que invita a reflexionar sobre el poder, la historia y la humanidad. https://linktr.ee/bibliotequeando

A.O. Scott, critic at The New York Times Book Review joins us to talk about what he looks for in literature, why we read the things we do, his path to a career in journalism and more with Miwa Messer, host of Poured Over. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.                     New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app Featured Books (Episode): The Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson Burnett Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë Wide Sargasso Sea by Jean Rhys Middlemarch by George Eliot James by Percival Everett Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver Studies in Classic American Literature by D.H. Lawrence Better Living Through Criticism by A.O. Scott The Magician by Colm Tóibín Brooklyn by Colm Tóibín Long Island by Colm Tóibín The Intuitionist by Colson Whitehead Zone One by Colson Whitehead The Remains of the Day by Kazuo Ishiguro The Hours by Michael Cunningham Lost in the City by Edward P. Jones

In James Baldwin's Sonny's Blues (Oxford University Press, 2024), Tom Jenks follows a scene-by-scene, sometimes line-by-line, discussion of the pattern by which Baldwin indelibly writes "Sonny's Blues" into the consciousness of readers. It provides ongoing observations of the aesthetics underlying the particulars of the story, with references to Edward P. Jones (whose magnificent story "All Aunt Hagar's Children" bears a knowing relationship to "Sonny's Blues,") to Charlie Parker's music, and to Billie Holiday's "Am I Blue?" and John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" as part of the musical progression Baldwin creates, and with attention to Baldwin's oratorical gifts and the biblical references in the story, to its time structure, characterizations, dramatic action, and, most of all, its totality of effect. Drawing on Baldwin's book-length essay The Fire Next Time, which Baldwin published a six years after the publication of the short story, Tom Jenks offers insight on some of the sources in Baldwin's life for "Sonny's Blues" and on the logic and passion by which life may be meaningfully transformed into art. Tom Jenks is the cofounder and editor of Narrative magazine. Check out his magazine online here. He is a former editor of Esquire, Gentlemen's Quarterly, The Paris Review, and a senior editor at Scribners, where he edited Hemingway's The Garden of Eden. With Raymond Carver, he edited American Short Story Masterpieces. His writing has appeared in Harper's, Ploughshares, Vanity Fair, Esquire, The American Scholar, Five Points, the Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere. He has given classes at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the Creative Writing Programs at University of California, and Washington University in St. Louis. Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is an editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

In James Baldwin's Sonny's Blues (Oxford University Press, 2024), Tom Jenks follows a scene-by-scene, sometimes line-by-line, discussion of the pattern by which Baldwin indelibly writes "Sonny's Blues" into the consciousness of readers. It provides ongoing observations of the aesthetics underlying the particulars of the story, with references to Edward P. Jones (whose magnificent story "All Aunt Hagar's Children" bears a knowing relationship to "Sonny's Blues,") to Charlie Parker's music, and to Billie Holiday's "Am I Blue?" and John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" as part of the musical progression Baldwin creates, and with attention to Baldwin's oratorical gifts and the biblical references in the story, to its time structure, characterizations, dramatic action, and, most of all, its totality of effect. Drawing on Baldwin's book-length essay The Fire Next Time, which Baldwin published a six years after the publication of the short story, Tom Jenks offers insight on some of the sources in Baldwin's life for "Sonny's Blues" and on the logic and passion by which life may be meaningfully transformed into art. Tom Jenks is the cofounder and editor of Narrative magazine. Check out his magazine online here. He is a former editor of Esquire, Gentlemen's Quarterly, The Paris Review, and a senior editor at Scribners, where he edited Hemingway's The Garden of Eden. With Raymond Carver, he edited American Short Story Masterpieces. His writing has appeared in Harper's, Ploughshares, Vanity Fair, Esquire, The American Scholar, Five Points, the Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere. He has given classes at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the Creative Writing Programs at University of California, and Washington University in St. Louis. Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is an editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In James Baldwin's Sonny's Blues (Oxford University Press, 2024), Tom Jenks follows a scene-by-scene, sometimes line-by-line, discussion of the pattern by which Baldwin indelibly writes "Sonny's Blues" into the consciousness of readers. It provides ongoing observations of the aesthetics underlying the particulars of the story, with references to Edward P. Jones (whose magnificent story "All Aunt Hagar's Children" bears a knowing relationship to "Sonny's Blues,") to Charlie Parker's music, and to Billie Holiday's "Am I Blue?" and John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" as part of the musical progression Baldwin creates, and with attention to Baldwin's oratorical gifts and the biblical references in the story, to its time structure, characterizations, dramatic action, and, most of all, its totality of effect. Drawing on Baldwin's book-length essay The Fire Next Time, which Baldwin published a six years after the publication of the short story, Tom Jenks offers insight on some of the sources in Baldwin's life for "Sonny's Blues" and on the logic and passion by which life may be meaningfully transformed into art. Tom Jenks is the cofounder and editor of Narrative magazine. Check out his magazine online here. He is a former editor of Esquire, Gentlemen's Quarterly, The Paris Review, and a senior editor at Scribners, where he edited Hemingway's The Garden of Eden. With Raymond Carver, he edited American Short Story Masterpieces. His writing has appeared in Harper's, Ploughshares, Vanity Fair, Esquire, The American Scholar, Five Points, the Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere. He has given classes at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the Creative Writing Programs at University of California, and Washington University in St. Louis. Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is an editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

In James Baldwin's Sonny's Blues (Oxford University Press, 2024), Tom Jenks follows a scene-by-scene, sometimes line-by-line, discussion of the pattern by which Baldwin indelibly writes "Sonny's Blues" into the consciousness of readers. It provides ongoing observations of the aesthetics underlying the particulars of the story, with references to Edward P. Jones (whose magnificent story "All Aunt Hagar's Children" bears a knowing relationship to "Sonny's Blues,") to Charlie Parker's music, and to Billie Holiday's "Am I Blue?" and John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" as part of the musical progression Baldwin creates, and with attention to Baldwin's oratorical gifts and the biblical references in the story, to its time structure, characterizations, dramatic action, and, most of all, its totality of effect. Drawing on Baldwin's book-length essay The Fire Next Time, which Baldwin published a six years after the publication of the short story, Tom Jenks offers insight on some of the sources in Baldwin's life for "Sonny's Blues" and on the logic and passion by which life may be meaningfully transformed into art. Tom Jenks is the cofounder and editor of Narrative magazine. Check out his magazine online here. He is a former editor of Esquire, Gentlemen's Quarterly, The Paris Review, and a senior editor at Scribners, where he edited Hemingway's The Garden of Eden. With Raymond Carver, he edited American Short Story Masterpieces. His writing has appeared in Harper's, Ploughshares, Vanity Fair, Esquire, The American Scholar, Five Points, the Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere. He has given classes at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the Creative Writing Programs at University of California, and Washington University in St. Louis. Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is an editor at the New Books Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

In James Baldwin's Sonny's Blues (Oxford University Press, 2024), Tom Jenks follows a scene-by-scene, sometimes line-by-line, discussion of the pattern by which Baldwin indelibly writes "Sonny's Blues" into the consciousness of readers. It provides ongoing observations of the aesthetics underlying the particulars of the story, with references to Edward P. Jones (whose magnificent story "All Aunt Hagar's Children" bears a knowing relationship to "Sonny's Blues,") to Charlie Parker's music, and to Billie Holiday's "Am I Blue?" and John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme" as part of the musical progression Baldwin creates, and with attention to Baldwin's oratorical gifts and the biblical references in the story, to its time structure, characterizations, dramatic action, and, most of all, its totality of effect. Drawing on Baldwin's book-length essay The Fire Next Time, which Baldwin published a six years after the publication of the short story, Tom Jenks offers insight on some of the sources in Baldwin's life for "Sonny's Blues" and on the logic and passion by which life may be meaningfully transformed into art. Tom Jenks is the cofounder and editor of Narrative magazine. Check out his magazine online here. He is a former editor of Esquire, Gentlemen's Quarterly, The Paris Review, and a senior editor at Scribners, where he edited Hemingway's The Garden of Eden. With Raymond Carver, he edited American Short Story Masterpieces. His writing has appeared in Harper's, Ploughshares, Vanity Fair, Esquire, The American Scholar, Five Points, the Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere. He has given classes at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, the Creative Writing Programs at University of California, and Washington University in St. Louis. Jessie Cohen holds a Ph.D. in History from Columbia University, and is an editor at the New Books Network.

A brief take on Edward P. Jones's intricate storytelling and his role as a chronicler of Washington, D.C.'s neighborhoods and landmarks.Script by Kenton Rambsy Read by Kassandra Timm

A brief take on how Edward P. Jones's short stories document and celebrate the history and culture of Washington, D.C.'s Black neighborhoods, resurrecting forgotten landmarks and local heritage.Script by Kenton Rambsy Read by Kassandra Timm

Someone Like Us by Dinaw Mengestu tells the story of the son of Ethiopian immigrants unraveling family history, connection and memory. Mengestu joins us to talk about the experiences that lead to his writing, diasporic communities, power in storytelling and more with Miwa Messer, host of Poured Over.  This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang.                      New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app.            Featured Books (Episode):  Someone Like Us by Dinaw Mengestu   The Beautiful Things That Heaven Bears by Dinaw Mengestu  Lost in the City by Edward P. Jones 

Joanna Pearson discusses her debut novel, Bright and Tender Dark, as well as branding, homesteading online, Tressie McMillan Cottom, the weirdness of Threads and Goodreads, eerie vibes, using murdered-girl tropes while subverting them, unresolved creepiness in the novel, Rachel Monroe fandom, and more! Joanna Pearson's debut novel, BRIGHT AND TENDER DARK (Bloomsbury, 2024), is an Indie Next Pick and an Amazon Editors' Pick. Her second story collection, NOW YOU KNOW IT ALL (University of Pittsburgh Press, 2021), was chosen by Edward P. Jones for the 2021 Drue Heinz Literature Prize and named a finalist for the Virginia Literary Awards. Her first story collection, EVERY HUMAN LOVE (Acre Books, 2019) was a finalist for the Shirley Jackson Awards, the Janet Heidinger Kafka Prize for Fiction, and the Foreword INDIES Awards. Her stories have appeared in The Best American Short Stories, The Best American Mystery and Suspense, The Best Small Fictions, Best of the Net, and many other places. Joanna has received fellowships supporting her fiction from MacDowell, VCCA, South Arts, the Sewanee Writers' Conference, and the North Carolina Arts Council/Durham Arts Council. She holds an MFA in poetry from the Johns Hopkins University Writing Seminars and an MD from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine. Originally from western North Carolina, she now lives with her husband and two daughters near Chapel Hill, where she works as a psychiatrist. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When was the last time you read a short story? This hour, we talk about why short stories are so popular in the classroom, but why adults don't seem to read them much once they're done with school. And we make the case for why you should. Plus, a look at the art of the short story with some masters of the craft.   You can read Rebecca Makkai's Substack post that inspired this show here.    Here is the story that is discussed in the final segment, “How I Became a Vet” by Rivka Galchen.    As part of this show we asked each of our guests to recommend a short story, a collection, or an author. Here are those recommendations: Rebecca Makkai: “The Dinner Party” by Joshua Ferris George Saunders: “The Stone Boy” by Gina Berriault, “The Conventional Wisdom” by Stanley Elkin Deborah Treisman: Liberation Day by George Saunders, After the Funeral by Tessa Hadley, “The Haunting of Hajji Hotak” by Jamil Jan Kochai Amy Bloom: “The Dead” by James Joyce, stories by Edward P. Jones, essays by Samantha Irby Irene Papoulis: “Drinking Coffee Elsewhere” by ZZ Packer Brian Slattery: “Hell is the Absence of God” by Ted Chiang Colin McEnroe: “The Hole on the Corner” and “What's the Name of That Town?” by R.A. Lafferty GUESTS:  Rebecca Makkai: Author of the Pulitzer Prize- and National Book Award-finalist The Great Believers, among other books; her newest book is I Have Some Questions For You, and she is artistic director of StoryStudio Chicago George Saunders: Author of twelve books; his most recent is Liberation Day, a collection of short stories Deborah Triesman: Fiction editor for The New Yorker and the host of their Fiction Podcast Amy Bloom: Author of four novels and three collections of short stories; her most recent book is the memoir In Love Irene Papouli: Teaches writing at Trinity College Brian Slattery: Arts editor for the New Haven Independent Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter.   Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show.   The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode.    Colin McEnroe and Cat Pastor contributed to this show, which originally aired on August 7, 2023.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Join co-hosts Annie Liontas and Lito Velázquez in conversation with LitFriends Lucy Corin & Deb Olin Unferth about their travels in the Sahara, ancient chickens, disappointments, true love, and why great books are so necessary. Our next episode will feature Melissa Febos & Donika Kelly, out December 22, 2023.   Links Libsyn Blog www.annieliontas.com www.litovelazquez.com https://www.lucycorin.com https://debolinunferth.com LitFriends LinkTree LitFriends Insta LitFriends Facebook   Transcript Annie Lito (00:00.118) Welcome to Lit Friends! Hey Lit Friends!   Lito: Welcome to the show.    Annie: Today we're speaking with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth, great writers, thinkers, and LitFriend besties.    Lito:  About chickens, the Sahara, and bad reviews.    Annie: So grab your bestie   Annie & Lito: And get ready to get lit!   Lito: You know those like stones that you can get when you're on like a trip to like Tennessee somewhere or something, they're like worry stones? Like people used to like worry them with their thumb or something whenever they had a problem and it would like supposedly calm you down. Well, it's not quite the same thing, but I love how Deb describes her and Lucy's relationship is like, “worry a problem with me.” Like let's, let's cut this gem from all the angles and really like rub it down to its essential context and meaning and understanding. And I think essentially that's what like writers, great writers, offer the world. They've worked through a problem and they have answers. There's not one answer, there's not a resolution to it, but the answers that lead to better, more better questions.    Annie: Yeah, and there's something so special about them because they're, worry tends to be something we do in isolation, almost kind of worrying ourselves into the ground.   Lito: Right. Annie: But they're doing it together in collaboration.    Lito: It's a collaborative worry. Yes, I love that.    Annie: A less lonely worrying.    Lito: It's a less lonely place to think through these things. And the intimacy between them is so special. The way I think they just weave in and out of their lives with each other, even though they're far away from each other.   I think there's a romantic notion that you're tuned into about Lucy and Deb's trip to the desert. Do you want to say something about that? There's a metaphor in it that you really love, right?    Annie: (1:52) Yeah. Well, so I remember when we first talked about doing this podcast and invited them, we were at a bar at AWP, the writer's conference. And they were like, oh, this is perfect. We just went to the Sahara together. And I was like, what? You writers just decided to take a trip together through the desert? And they said, yeah, it was perfect. And they have adorable photos, which we of course are going to share with the world. Um, but it felt like such a, I mean, the fact that they would go on that kind of adventure together and didn't really plan ahead, I think it was just Deb saying, I really want to go to the desert. And Lucy saying, sure, let's go. Which feels very much a kind of metonym of their friendship in some ways.    Lito: Absolutely.    Annie: (2:42) Yeah. That they wandered these spaces together. They come back to art, right? Art is a way for them to recreate themselves and recreate their friendship. And they're doing such different things on the page.    Lito:  Oh yeah, no, they're very different writers but they do share a curiosity that's unique I think in their friendship, then unique to them.    Annie: Yeah and a kind of rigorousness and a love for the word.    Lito: (3:10) Oh and a love for thinking and reading the world in every capacity.    Annie: Tell me about your friendship with Lucy because you're quite close.   Lito: I was at UC Davis before it was an MFA program. It was just a Master's. After undergrad, I went to the master's program because I wasn't sure if I wanted to be an academic or do the studio option and get an MFA. I loved how Lucy and the other professors there, Pam Houston, Yiyun Li, showed us the different ways to be a writer. They couldn't be more different, the three of them. And, I particularly was drawn to Lucy because of her sense of art and play and how those things interact.    Lito: (03:59) And here was someone that was extremely cerebral, extremely intelligent, thinking through every aspect of existence. And yet it was all done through the idea of play and experimentation, but not experimentation in that sort of like negative way that we think of experimentation, which is to say writing that doesn't work, but experimentation in the sense of innovation. And. Lucy brought out my sense of play. I got it right away, what she was going for, that there is an intellectual pleasure to the work of reading and writing that people in the world respond to, but don't often articulate. Lucy's able to articulate it, and I admire her forever for that.    Lito: (4:52) And perhaps I'm not speaking about our friendship, but it comes from a place of deep admiration for the work that she does and the way she approaches life. You have a special relationship with Deb. I would love to hear more about that.    Annie: (5:04) Yeah, I think I've been fangirling over Deb for years. Deb is such a special person. I mean, she's incredibly innovative and has this agility on the page, like almost no other writer I know. Also quite playful, but I love most her humanity. Deb is a vegan who, in Barn 8, brings such life to chickens in a way that we as humans rarely consider. There's an amazing scene which she's like with a chicken 2000 years into the future. Also, I know Deb through my work with Pen City, her writing workshop with incarcerated writers at the Connally Unit, a maximum security penitentiary in Southern Texas.   Lito: How does that work? Is it all by letter or do you go there?    Annie: (5:58) Well, the primary program, you know, the workshop that Deb teaches is on site, and it's certified. So students are getting, the incarcerated writers, are getting now college credit because it's an accredited program. So Deb will be on site and work with them directly. And those of us who volunteer as mentors, the program has evolved a little bit since then, (06:22) but it's kind of a pen pal situation. So I had a chance to work with a number of writers, some who had been there for years and years. And a lot of folks are writing auto-fiction or fiction that's deeply inspired by the places they've lived and their experiences. It's such a special program, it's such a special experience. And what I saw from Deb was just this absolute fierceness. You know, like Deb can appear to be fragile in some ways (06:53.216), and it's her humanity, but actually there's this solid steel core to Deb, and it's about fortitude and a kind of moral alignment that says, we need to do better.    Lito: We have this weird connotation with the word fragile that it's somehow bad, but actually, what it means is that someone's vulnerable. And to me, there is no greater superpower than vulnerability, especially with art, and especially in artwork that is like what she does at the penitentiary. But, can I ask a question?    Annie:  Sure.   Lito: Why is it so special working with incarcerated folks?    Annie: (7:27) Oh, that's a great question. I mean, we need its own podcast to answer it.   Lito: Of course, but just sort of the...    Annie:  I think my personal experience with it is that so many incarcerated writers have been disenfranchised on all levels of identity and experience. Voting rights, decent food, accommodations, mental health, physical, you know, physical well-being. And we can't solve all those problems necessarily, at least all at once, and it's an up, it's a constant battle. But nothing to me offers or recognizes a person's humanity like saying, "tell us your story. Tell us what's on your mind. We are here to hear you and listen."  And those stories and they do come out, you know, there have been other programs that have done this kind of work, they get out in the world and there's, we're bridging this gap of people we have almost entirely forgotten out of absolute choice.  (8:27) And Deb is doing that work, really, I mean she's been doing that work for a long time and finally got some recognition for it, but Deb does it because she's committed.   Lito: That is really powerful. Tell us your story. Tell us your story, Lit Fam. Tell us your story. Find us in all your social media @LitFriendsPodcast or email us at LitFriendsPodcast@gmail.com   Annie: We will read all your stories. We'll be right back with Lucy and   Deb.   Lito: (09:00) And now, our interview with Lucy Corrin and Deb. Lucy Corin is the author of two short story collections, 100 Apocalypses and Other Apocalypses and The Entire Predicament, and two novels, Everyday Psychokillers and The Swank Hotel. In addition to winning the Rome Prize, Lucy was awarded a fellowship in literature from the NEA. She is a 2023 Guggenheim Fellow and a professor of English in the MFA program at UC Davis.    Annie:  Deb Olin-Unferth is the author of six books, including Barn 8, and her memoir, Revolution: The Year I Fell in Love and Went to Join the War, which was a finalist for the National Book Critics Circle Award. Deb is an associate professor in creative writing at the University of Texas at Austin. She founded and runs Pen City Writers, a two-year creative writing certificate program at Connally, a maximum security prison in southern Texas. For this work, she was awarded the 2017 Texas Governor's Criminal Justice Service Award.   Lito: (09:58) Annie and I thought this up a year ago, and we were talking about what is special about literary friendships and how writing gets made, not as we all think, totally solitary in our rooms alone, but we have conversations, at least I think this way. They're part of long conversations with our friends, our literary friends and living and dead, and you know, all times, in all times of history.   But the idea here is that we get to talk to our literary friends and people we admire and writers who are close friends with each other and friendships in which literature plays a large role.   Annie: (10:37) Yeah, and I'll just add that when we first floated the idea of this podcast, you know, your names came up immediately. We're so in awe of you as people and practitioners and literary citizens, and we love your literary friendship. I mean, I really hold it dear as one of the best that I know of personally.    Lucy, I think of you as, you know, this craftsperson of invention who's always trying to undo what's been done and who's such an amazing mentor to emerging writers. And Deb, you know, I'm always returning to your work to see the world in a new way, to see something I might have missed. And I just, I'm so moved by your generosity in your work and in your life's work with Penn City and elsewhere, which I'm sure we'll have a chance to talk more about.   Annie: (11:30) But I think I recall the first day I realized how close the two of you were when Deb told me that you all were taking a trip to the Sahara. And I was like, oh, of course, like, of course, they're going to have desert adventures together. Like, this makes so much sense. So I hope we'll, you know, we'll talk more about that too.    Annie (11:53) But we're so grateful to have you here and to have you in our lives. And we're going to ask you some questions to get to know a little bit more about you.    Deb:  Sounds great.    Lucy: Thanks.    Deb: It's great to be here. It's really great to see everybody.    Lito: Thank you so much for being here. Deb, will you tell us about Lucy?   Deb: (12:16) I mean, Lucy's just one of my very favorite people. And I feel like our friendship just started really slowly and just kind of grew over a period of many years. And some of the things that I love about Lucy is she is, well, of course, she's a brilliant genius writer. Like, I mean, no one writes weird like Lucy writes weird and no one writes like more emotionally, and more inventively and some of her books are some of my favorite books that have ever been written. Especially her last two books I think have just been such just major literary accomplishments and I just hold them so dear.    (13:05) And as a friend some things that I really love about her is that she will worry a problem with me that's just bugging me about like literary culture or about writing or about, you know, just it could be anything about aesthetics at all. And then she'll literally talk to me about it for like five or six days straight without stopping. Like we'll just constantly, dinner after dinner, like, you know, if we're on a trip together, just like all day, like I'll wake up in the morning and I'll be like, here's another piece of that pie. And then she'll say, oh, and I was thinking, and then we'll like go off and work and then we'll come back at lunch and be like, "and furthermore," you know? And by the end, I remember at one point we were doing this and she said, this is a very interesting essay you're writing. And of course, like it wasn't an essay at all, but it was just like a way of thinking about the way that we were talking.   (14:06) And then she is hilarious and delightful and just like so warm. I don't know, I just love her to pieces. She's just one of my favorite people in the whole world. I could say more, but I'll stop right there for a minute.    Annie: Lucy, tell us about Deb.    Lucy: (14:24) Yeah, I mean, Deb, I mean, the first thing, I mean, the first thing you'll notice is that Deb is sort of effortlessly enthusiastic about the things that she cares about. And that's at the core of the way that she moves through the world and the way that she encounters people and the way that she encounters books.   (14:44) I'm more reserved, so I'll just preface what I'm going to say by saying that like, my tone might not betray my true enthusiasms, but I'll try to list some of the things that I think are special and extraordinary about my friend Deb.   One is that there's this conversation that never stops between the way that she's thinking about her own work and the way that she's thinking about the state of the world and the way that she's thinking about the very specific encounters that she's having in daily life. And so like moving through a conversation with Deb or moving through a period of time with Deb in the world, those things are always in flux and in conversation. So it's a really wonderful mind space to be in, to be in her presence.   (15:35) The other thing is that she's like the most truly ethical person that I am close to and in the sense that like she thinks really hard about every move she makes.   The comparison I would make is like you know Deb is like at the core like, the first thing you might notice about Deb's work is that she's a stylist, that she works sentence by sentence and that she always does. But then the other thing she does is that she's always thinking hard about the world and the work, that it never stays purely a love of the sentence. The love of the sentence is part of the love of trying to understand the relationship between words and the world.    (16:15) And, and they're both an ethics. I think it's an ethics of aesthetics and an ethics of trying to be alive in as decent way as you can manage. And so those things feed into the friendship where she's one of the people who I know will tell me what she really thinks about something because we can have a baseline of trust where then you can talk about things that are either dangerous or you might have different ideas about things or you may have conflict.    (16:47) But because of my sense of who she is as a person, and also who she is with me, we can have challenging conversations about what's right about how to behave and what's right about how to write. And that also means that when the other parts of friendship, which are just like outside of literature, but always connected, which, you know, about your own, you know, your other friendships, your, the rest of your life, your job, your family, things like that, that you wanna talk about with your friends. Yeah, I don't know anybody better to sort through those things than Deb.    And it's in part because we're writers, and you can't separate out the questions that you're having about the other parts of your life from who you're trying to be as a writer. And that's always built into the conversation.   Annie: (17:40) I knew we asked you here for a reason.   Lito: We'll be right back.    Lito (17:58) Back to the show.    Annie: I'm hearing you, you know, you're both, you're sort of really seeing one another, which is really lovely. You know, you're, Deb, you're talking about Lucy wearing a problem with you, which I think conveys a kind of strength and... Of course, like I'm quite familiar with Deb's like strong moral anchors. I think we all are and truly respect, but I'm just wondering, what do you most admire about your friend? What do you think they give to the world in light of this portrait that you've given us?   Deb: (18:28) Lucy is a very careful thinker, and she's incredibly fair. And I've just seen her act, just behave that way and write that way for so many years and it just the quality of it always surprises me.  Like I mean, there was a writer, most recently there was a writer who's been cancelled, who we have spent an enormous amount of time talking about and trying to figure out just exactly what was going on there. And I felt like Lucy had insights into what had happened and what it was like on his end and what about his culture could have influenced what happened. Just all of these things that were.   (19:36.202) It was so insightful and I felt like there's no way that I could have moved that moved forward that many steps in my understanding of what had happened. And in my own like how I was going to approach what had happened. Like there's no way I could have done that without that just constant just really careful thought and really fair thought. Just like trying to deeply understand. Like Lucy has an emotional intelligence that is just completely unparalleled. That's one thing I really love about her.    Another thing is that she's like up for anything. Like when I asked her to go to the Sahara with me, I mean, she said yes in like, it was like not even 12 seconds. It was like 3 seconds, I think, that she was like, yeah.   Annie: You need a friend who is just gonna go to the Sahara.    Lucy: Deb, I don't even know if you actually invited me. The way I remember it is that you said something like, Lucy, no one will go to the Sahara with me. And I said, I would go to the Sahara with you.   Lito: That is lovely.   Lucy: (20:53) It's in Africa, right?    Lito:  Was there something specific about the Sahara that you need to go over for?   Deb:  Yeah, I mean, there was. It's a book I'm still working on, hopefully finishing soon. But it's mostly it's like...I just always wanted to go to the Sahara. My whole life, I wanted to go to Morocco, I wanted to go to the Sahara, I wanted to be surrounded by just sand and one line. You look in 360 degrees and you just see one line. I just wanted to see what that was like so badly, stripping everything out, coming down to just that one element of blue and beige. I just wanted that so much. And I wanted to know that it just went on and on and on and on.   (21:48) Yeah, and you know, people talk a big talk, but most people would not go. And so at one point I was just kind of rallying, asking everyone. And then Lucy happened to be in town and I just mentioned to her that this is happening. And then she said, yeah, and then we went for like a long time. Like we went to Morocco for like over three weeks. Like we went for like a month.    Lucy:  A month.    Deb: Yeah, crazy. But she's always like that. Like whatever I want to do, she's just up for it. I mean, and she called me up and she's like, hey, we want to come to Austin and like, go to this place that's two hours from Austin where you can see five million bats, right? Five million bats? Or was it more? Was it like 20 million?    Lucy:  That's right.    Deb: It was like 20 million bats and a lot of them are baby bats. It's like mama bats and baby bats.     Lucy: Yeah, like it's more when there's the babies.   Deb: (22:46) And yeah, and you were like, I want to come with them as the babies. Yeah, we like went and she just like came and Andrea came, and it was just absolutely beautiful.    Lucy: Well, you were just right for that adventure. I knew you would want to see some bats.    Lucy: Well, I could I could say a couple of more things about what Deb gives the world.    Annie: Sure. Love it.    Lucy: So some of the things that Deb gives the world and though when I listen to you talking about me, I realized why these things are so important to me, is that you have a very steady sense of who you are and a kind of confidence in your instincts. That I know that some of the ways that I worry things through are really productive and some of them are just an ability to see why I could be wrong all the time, and that can stymie me.    (23:48) And one of the things that I love about you and the model that you provide for me in my life is an ability to understand what your truth is and not be afraid to hold onto it while you're thinking about other people's perspectives, that you're able to really tell the difference between the way that other people think about things and the way that you do.   And it doesn't mean that you don't rethink things, you constantly are, but when you have a conviction, you don't have a problem with having a conviction. And I admire it enormously. And I think it allows you to have a kind of openness to the world and an openness to people who are various and different and will challenge you and will show you new things because you have that sense that you're not gonna lose yourself in the wind.    Deb: Mmm. That's really nice.   Lito: I am in awe of everything you've said about each other. And it makes me think about how you first met each other. Can you tell us that story? And why did you keep coming back? What was the person like when you first met? And why did you keep coming back to each other? Do you want to tell Lucy?     Lucy: Yeah, I'll start and you can add what I'm missing and... (25:06) tell a different origin story if you want. But I think that what we might've come to for our origin story is that it was one of the, one of the early &Now Festivals. And the &Now Festival is really great.   Lito: Could you say what that is? Yeah, say a little bit about what that is.   Luch: Oh, it's a literary conference that was started to focus on small press and more innovative—is the term that they used at the time anyhow—innovative writing as a kind of response to the market-driven culture of AWP and to try to get people who are working more experimentally or more like on the edge of literary culture less mainstream and give them a place to come together and have conversations about writing and share their work.   So it was one of the early ones of those. But I think it was, I think we figured out that there were like, yeah, there were three women. It was me, you, and Shelley Jackson. But it was, there were not that many women at this conference at the time. And we were, and I think we were noting, noting our solidarity. Yeah. And that, that's what. That's like some of the first images.   But I knew we were like aware of each other because in some ways we have tended to be up for the same jobs—Deb gets them—up for the same prizes—Deb gets them first, I'll get them later. And so I see her as somebody who's traveling through the literary world in ways that are... I mean, we're very different writers, but as people... You know what I mean? But I still... We still actually...come from a lot of the same literary roots. And so it makes sense that there's something of each other in the work that makes us appeal to overlapping parts of the literary world.   Deb: Yeah, I definitely think that there was in our origins, not only do we come from the same sort of influences, and just things that we admired and stuff, but I also feel like (27:28.018) a lot of our early work would have appealed more easily to the exact same people. As we've gotten older, our work isn't quite as similar. We're a little more different than we used to be. But there's still enough there that, you know, you can see a lot of the same people admiring or liking it.   But I was remembering that first time that we met, you playing pool. And we were, so we were like at a bar and you were like, and you were playing pool, and you had like just had a book out with FSG, I think, or something. I don't know if I even had—   Lucy: FC2. Very different.   Deb: FC2. That's right. FC2. And the FC2 editor was there. And I don't think I even had a book out. I don't remember what year this was. But I don't think I had any kind of book out. All I had was I had nothing, you know. And I was just so in awe of FC2 and the editor there, and you there, and like you could play pool, and I can't play pool at all. And it was just, it was—   Annie: Lucy's so cool. Yeah, she was cool. She was cool. And Shelly Jackson was cool. And it was like all the cool people were there and I got to be there, and it was great.   And then, yeah, and then I think how it continued, I don't know how it continued, we just kind of kept running into each other and just slowly it built up into a really deep friendship. Like at some point you would come through town and stay with me.   (29:25.782) And we moved, we both moved around a lot. So for a while there, so we kind of kept running into each other in different places. We've never lived in the same place.   Lucy: No, never.   Lito: How have you managed that then? Is it always phone or is it texting, phone calls?   Lucy: Well, we'll go through a spate of  texting.   Deb: Yeah, we do both. I think I like to talk on the phone.   Lucy: Yeah, I will talk on the phone for Deb.   Annie: The mark of a true friendship.   Lito: (30:01) Time for a break.   Annie Lito (30:12.43) We're talking with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth.   Lito: How has literature shaped your friendship then? Despite being cool. What kind of books, movies, art do you love to discuss? You can name names. What do you love talking about?   Deb: Well, I remember the moment with Donald Barthelme.   Lucy: That was what I was gonna say.   Deb: No, you go ahead.   Lucy: Well, why don't?   Deb: Oh, okay, you can tell it.   Lucy: I mean, I'll tell part and then you can tell part. It's not that elaborate, but we were, one of the things that Deb and I do is find a pretty place, rent a space, and go work together. And one time we were doing that in Mendocino and Deb was in the late stages of drafting Barn 8 and really thinking about the ancient chickens and the chickens in an ancient space. And we went for a walk in one of those very ferny forests, and Deb was thinking about the chickens and among the giant ferns. And I don't know how it happened, but Deb said something with a rhythm. And we both said to each other the exact line from Donald Barthelme's "The School" that has that rhythm.   (31:34) Is that how you remember it though? You have to tell me if that's how you remember it.   Deb: That's exactly how I remember it. Yeah. And then we like said a few more lines. Like we knew even...    Lito: You remember the line now?   Lucy: I mean, I don't... You do. If you said it, I could do it. I'm just... I was thinking before this, I'm like, oh God, I should go look up the line because I'm not going to get it right, like under pressure. It was just in the moment. It came so naturally.   Deb: It was one of those lines that goes... (32:03) Da da da-da da, da da da-da-da. There's a little parenthetical, it's not really in parentheses in the story, but it might be a little dash mark. But it has, it's something like, "I told them that they should not be afraid, although I am often afraid." I think it was that one.   Deb: I am often afraid. Yeah. And then it was like, we just both remembered a whole bunch of lines like from the end, because the ending of that story is so amazing. And it's, so the fact that we had both unconsciously memorized it and could just like.   And it was something about just like walking under those giant trees and having this weekend together. And like we're like marching along, like calling out lines from Donald Barthelme. And it just felt really like pure and deep.   Annie: It's I mean, I can't imagine anything sounding more like true love than spontaneously reciting a line in unison from Barthelme. And, you know, you both are talking about how your work really converged at the start and that there are some new divergences and I think of you both as so distinct you know on and off the page. There's like the ferociousness of the pros and an eye towards cultural criticism and I always think of you as writing ahead of your time. So I'm just wondering how would you describe your lit friends work to someone, and is there something even after all this time that surprises you about their writing or their voice?   Lucy: I mean, what surprised me recently about Deb's voice is its elasticity. I came to love the work through the short stories and the micros. And those have such a distinct, wry kind of distance. They sort of float a little separate from the world, and they float a little separate from the page.   (34:10) And they have a kind of, they have a very distinct attitude and tone, even if the pieces are different from each other, like as a unit. And that's just really different than the voice that you get in a book like Barn 8 that moves through a lot of different narrators, but that also has just a softer relationship with the world. Like it's a little more blends with the world as you know, it doesn't stay as distant. And I didn't know that until later.   Vacation is also really stark and sort of like has that distinctiveness from the world. And so watching Deb move into, you know, in some ways like just more realistic, more realistic writing that's still voice-centered and that still is music centered was a recent surprising thing for me.   But I'm also really excited about what I've read in the book that in the new book because I think that new book is sort of the pieces that the bits that I've read from it are they're marking a territory that's sort of right down the middle of the aesthetic poles that Deb's work has already hit I mean the other thing is that you know Deb does all the genres. All of the prose genres. Every book sort of is taking on it is taking on a genre And the next one is doing that too, but with content in a way that others have been taking on new genres and form. And so...    Lito: I love that. And I like that it's related to the music of the pros and sound. I feel like musicians do that a lot, right? There's some musicians that every album is a new genre or totally different sound. And then there's artists who do the same thing over and over again. We love both those things. Sorry, so Deb...   Deb: So I love how complicated Lucy can get with just an image or an idea. I just feel like no one can do it the way that she can do it. And my like her last in her last book, which I love so much, we're just brought through all these different places and each one is sort of (36:31.29) dragging behind it, everything that came before, so that you can just feel all of this like, pressure of like the past and of the situations and like even like a word will resonate. Like you'll bring like, there's like a word on maybe page like 82 that you encountered on like page 20 that like the word meant so much on page 20 that it like really, you can really feel its power when it comes on page 80.   And you feel the constant like shifting of meaning and just like the way that the prose is bringing so much more and like it's like reinterpreting that word again and again and again, just like the deeper that you go, like whatever the word is be it you know house or home or stair or um you know sex, whatever it is, it's like constantly shifting. (37:40.952) And that's just part of like who Lucy is, is this like worrying of a problem or worrying of a word and like carrying it forward. And so yeah, so like in that last book, it just was such a big accomplishment. And I felt like it was like her best work yet.   Lucy: So I will say, try and say something a little bit more specific, then. (38:09) Like I guess in the sort of 10 stories that I teach as often as possible in part because I get bored so easily that I need to teach stories that I can return to that often and still feel like I'm reading something that is new to me is the title story from Wait Till You See Me Dance and that story is a really amazing combination of methodical in its execution, which sounds really dull.   But what it does is sort of toss one ball in the air and then toss another ball in the air and then toss another ball in the air. And then, you know, the balls move, but you know, the balls are brightly colored and they're handled by a master juggler. So it's methodical, but it's joyful and hilarious. And then, and then, and you don't   And the other thing is that Deb's narrators are wicked and like they're wicked in the way that like… They are, they're willing to do and say the things that you secretly wish somebody would do and say. That's the same way that like, you know, in the great existential novels, you love and also worry about the protagonists, right? They're troubled, but their trouble allows them to speak truthfully because they can't help it. Or they can't help it when they're in the space of the short story. It's that like, you know, the stories are able to access—a story like this one and like many of Deb's—are able to access that really special space of narrator, of narration, where you get to speak, you get to speak in a whisper.   Annie: You get to speak in a whisper. That's beautiful, Lucy. You get to speak in a whisper.   Lito: We'll be right back.   Lito: (40:15) Welcome back.   Annie: I'm wondering about what this means, you know, how this crosses over to your own personal lives, right? Because of course, literary friendships, we're thinking about the work all of the time. But we're also, you know, when I think of my literary friendship with Lito, I think of him as like a compatriot and somebody who's really carrying me through the world sometimes. I'm wondering if there was for either of you, a hard time that you went through personally, professionally, you know, whether it's about publishing or just getting words on the page or something, you know, um, you know, family related or whatever, where you, um, you know, what it meant to have a literary friend nearby at that time.   Lucy: I mean that's the heart of it.   Deb: Yeah, I mean for sure.   Lucy: One happened last week and I'm sort of still in the middle of it where you know my literary mentor is aging and struggling and so that's painful for me and who gets that? Deb gets that.   The other one, the other big one for me was that the release of my last novel was really complicated. And it brought up a lot of, it intersected with a lot of the things going on in my family that are challenging and a lot of things that are going on in the literary world that are challenging. There were parts of that release that were really satisfying and joyful, and there were parts of it that were just devastatingly painful for me.   And, you know, Deb really helped me find my way through that. And it was a lot, like it was a lot of emotional contact and a lot of thinking through things really hard and a lot of being like, "wait, why do we do this? But remember, why do we do this?" And Deb was the person who could say, "no, you're a novelist." Like things that like I was doubting, Deb could tell me. And the other thing is that I would come closer to being able to believe those things because she could tell them to me.   Annie: Lucy, can you talk a little more about that? Like what did that? (42:27.126) What did that look like, right? Like you talked about resistance to phone calls, and you're not in the same place.   Lucy: It was phone. Right, it would be phone or it would be Zoom or it would be texting. And then, you know, when we would see each other that would be, we would reflect on those times in person even though that wasn't those immediate moments of support and coaching and, you know, wisdom.   Annie:  And that requires a kind of vulnerability, I think, that is hard to do in this industry, right? And I'm just wondering if that was new for you or if that was special to this friendship, right? Or like what allowed for that kind of openness on your part to be able to connect with Deb in that way?   Lucy: I mean, I think I was just really lucky that we've had, like even though we have really, I think, only noticed that we were close since that Morocco trip. Like that was a little bit of a leap of faith. Like, "oh my gosh, how well do I know this person and we're gonna travel together in like circumstances, and do we really know each other this way?" But the combination of the years that we've known each other in more of a warm acquaintance, occasional, great conversation kind of way towards being somebody that you, that you trust and believe and that you have that stuff built in.   And, you know, that over the years you've seen the choices that they've made in the literary world, the choices they've made in their career, when they, you know, everything from, you know, supporting, you know, being a small, being small press identified and championing certain kinds of books over other kinds of books. And like those, just like watching a person make choices for art that you think are in line with the writer that, watching her make choices in art that are in line with the writer that I wanna be in the world makes it so that when you come to something that is frightening, that's the kind of person you wanna talk to because she's done that thinking.   Deb: Yeah, I mean, I feel like there are like so many things that I could say about that. Like one thing is that the kind of time that I spend with Lucy is really different from the kind of time that I spend with most people. Like most people, (44:51) they come to town and I have dinner with them. Or I go to like AWP or whatever and we go out for dinner. Or maybe I spend like one night at their house like with their partner and kid or something, you know. But Lucy and I, we get together and we spend like four days or something all alone, just the two of us, you know, or a month or whatever. And we don't spend a ton of time with other people. And so there's, but then we also do that, but just like not very much.   And so there is something that just creates, like that's a really good mode for me. It's a, that's like the way that I make really deep friendships that are kind of like forever-people in my life. And I've always been like that. And so, but not a lot of people are willing to sort of do that with me. Like, I have so many acquaintances, I've got like a million, I feel like I could have dinner with someone just about any night, as long as it's only like once every few months or something, you know, but I don't have people who are willing to be this close to me, like spend that kind of time with me one-on-one. And the fact is like, they're not that many people that I really feel like doing that with.   And you know, every time Lucy and I do one of these, I just come away feeling like I thought about some really important things and I talked about some really important things and I saw some beautiful things because Lucy always makes sure that we're somewhere where we can see a lot of beauty. And so that just means so much to me. And it's like, and so for me it creates like a space where, Yeah, I can be honest and vulnerable, and I can also tell her, if I can tell her things that I don't tell other people, or I can be really honest with her if I feel like, if I'm giving her advice about something, I can just be honest about it. And so it's really, really nice.   (47:07) I mean, the other thing is like, we're so similar. Like we've made so many similar life choices. And we've talked about that. Lucy and I have talked about that. Like, you know, we both chose not to have kids. We live pretty, like we're both like kind of loners, even though we have partners. Like I think our partners are more like, they just kind of would, they would prefer that we.   I don't know, I shouldn't probably say anything, but I know that Matt would prefer if I was not quite as much of a loner as I am. Yeah, so I look at Lucy and I see the kind of person that I am, the kind of person I wanna be, so if I have a question, I mean, it happens.   Lucy mentioned a couple of things. I have... You know, she's had some pretty major, major things. I have like little things that happen all the time, and they just like bring me to tears.   Like there was this one moment during the pandemic when I was like driving across the country by myself. I was like in Marfa, and I was trying to get to California and I had like a toilet in the back seat. Remember when we were all doing that kind of thing?   Lucy: It was really amazing.   Deb: It was so crazy.   Lucy: But Deb, not everybody had a toilet in their back seat.   Annie: I know. I need that now.   Deb: It still comes in handy.   Annie: I'm sure.   Deb: (48:43) And I was in, and yeah, Lucy is amazing. She'll talk to me on the phone, but Lucy will do because I love to talk on the phone and I love to Zoom. Lucy does not. So she'll tell me in advance, okay, I will talk to you, but it's gonna be for like 20 minutes or I'm gonna have to get off like pretty soon.   But she Zoomed with me and Marfa and I just didn't realize how upset I was about this one rejection that I'd gotten. And it was a really small rejection, I don't know why it bothered me so much, but I just like started crying and like I was like way out in like so many miles from any so many hours from anyone I knew and you know the world was going to shit, and I'd gotten this like tiny rejection from a magazine like a little like I had it was the page was it was like a piece that was like a page long or something, and Lucy just like knew exactly why I I was so upset, and just was able to talk to me about what that meant to me. And just refocus me to like, "look, you don't have to write those. You don't have to be that writer. You don't have to do that." And it was so freeing to know that I didn't always have to be, I don't even know how to describe it, but it was meant a lot. And things like that happen all the time.   Annie: (50:15.265) That's such a wonderful model of mutual support.   Lucy: We'll be right back.   Annie: Hi Lit Fam. We hope you're enjoying our conversation with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth, and their love for the word, the world, and each other. If you love what we're doing here at LitFriends, please take a moment now  to follow, subscribe, rate, and review our podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just a few minutes of your time will help us so much to continue to bring you great conversations like this week after week.  Thank you for listening. Back to a conversation with Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth.     Annie: I'm also aware that we're working in an industry that's a zero-sum construct. And, you know, Lucy, you were sort of joking earlier about... Deb winning all of the awards that you later got. But I am curious, like, what about competition between literary friends when we're living in a world with basically shrinking resources?   Lucy: I feel competition, but I don't really feel it with my literary friends. Does that make sense? Like, I'll feel it with my idea of somebody that I don't really know except for their literary profile, right? But when someone like Deb gets something, it makes the world seem right and true, right? And so that's not hard to bear, right? That's just a sign of a good thing in a world that you're afraid isn't so good.   Deb: I guess I feel like if Lucy gets something, then that raises the chances that I'm gonna get something. I'm gonna get the same thing. Because if we're kind of in the same, like we both published with Grey Wolf, we both have the same editor, so we've multiple times that we've been on these trips, we've both been working on books that were supposed to come out with Graywolf with Ethan. (52:16.3) You know, so I feel like if Lucy gets something, then the chances go up.   Like there was just, something just happened recently where Lucy was telling me that she had a little, like a column coming out with The Believer. And I was like, "oh my God, I didn't even know that they were back." I'm like, "man, I really wanna be in The Believer. Like, I can't believe like, you know, they're back and I'm not in them. I gotta be in it. I said that to Lucy on the phone. And then, like the very next day, Rita wrote me and said, "Hey, do you want to write something?"   And so I wrote to Lucy immediately. I was like, did you write to Rita? And she was like, "no, I really didn't." So it's like, we're in the same— Did you, Lucy?   Lucy: No, I didn't! Rita did that all by herself.   Lito: You put it out into the universe, Deb.   Annie: Lucy did it. Hot cut, Lucy did it!   Deb:  So we're like, we're like in the same, I feel a lot of the time like we're kind of in the same lane and so that really helps because like, I do have writer friends who are not in the same lane as me and maybe. Like I'm not as close, but maybe that would be, but if I was as close, maybe that would cause me more confusion. Like I would be like, you know, "geez, how can I get that too? Or it's hopeless, I'll never get that, you know? So I just don't do that thing," or something. So that's really comforting.   Lito: What are your obsessions?   Lucy: Well, I mean-   Lito: How do they show up on the page?   Lucy: I feel like it's so obvious with Deb that like, you know, Deb got obsessed with chickens, and there was a whole bunch of stuff about chickens. First there was a really smart, brilliant Harper's essay where she learned her stuff. And then there was the novel where she, you know, imagined out the chickens (54:19) to touch on everything, right?   Annie: Then there was a chicken a thousand years in advance.   Lucy: Right, and then there's a beautiful chicken art in the house, and there's, you know. And I'm sure that she's gotten way more chicken gifts than she knows what to do with. But then the Sahara, like, you know, she was obsessed with the Sahara and you'll see it in the next book. It's gonna be— It's not gonna be in a literal way, right? But it'll be like, you'll feel the sand, you'll feel that landscape.   So I don't know, like I feel like the obsessions show up in the books. I mean, are there, I mean, this is a question like, Deb, do you think you have obsessions that don't show up in your work? We both have really cute little black dogs.   Deb: (55:07) Oh, not really. I mean, but I do get obsessed. Like I just get so, so like obsessed in an unhealthy way. And then I just have to wait it out. I just have to like wait until I'm not obsessed anymore. And it's like an ongoing just I'm like, OK, here it comes. It's like sleeping over me. Like how many years of my life is going to be are going to be gone as a result of this?   So I'm always like so relieved when I'm not in that space. Like Lucy's obsession comes down to that, with her language, that she's like exploring one idea, like she'll take an idea and she like worries that over the course of a whole book and that she'll just it's like almost like a cubist approach. She'll be like approaching it from so many different standpoints. And that is like, I mean, Lucy is so smart and the way that she does that is just so genius. And so I feel like that's the thing that really keeps drawing me to her obsessions, that keeps bringing me back to that page to read her work again and again. And yeah, and that's how she is in person too.   Lito: Why do you write? What does it do for the world, if anything?   Lucy: (56:37) I know I had a little tiny throat clear, but I think it was because I'm still trying to figure it out because I feel like the answer is different in this world order than it was in earlier world orders. Like when I first answered those questions for myself when I was deciding to make these big life choices and say, "you know, fuck everything except for writing," like I was answering, I was answering that question a different way than I would now, but I don't quite have it to spit out right now, except that I do think it has something to do with a place where the world can be saved. Like, writing now is a place of respite from the rest of the world where you can still have all of these things that I always assumed were widely valued, that feel more and more narrowly valued. And so I write to be able to have that in my life and to be able to connect with the other people who share those kinds of values that are about careful thinking, that are about the glory of the imagination, that are about the sanctity of people having made things.   Annie: Lucy, I need that on my wall. I just need to hear that every day.   Deb: I mean, I feel like if I can think about it in terms of my reading life, that like art changes my mind all the time. Like that's the thing that teaches me. Like I remember when I was a kid, and I lived right near the Art Institute of Chicago, and I remember going in, and they had the Jacob Lawrence immigration panels, migration panels up there that was like a traveling exhibition. And I had none of that information. I did not know about the Great Migration. I just didn't know any of that. So I just remember walking from panel to panel and reading and studying it, (58:47.952) reading it and studying it and just like getting like just getting just it was like a It was such a revelation and I just learned so much and like changed my mind about so many things just in that moment that it was like I'll never forget that.   And I feel like I, I totally agree with Lucy that the reasons that I write now and the reasons that I read now are very different than they were like before, say 2015, or something. But that, that maybe it has its roots in that sort of Jacob Lawrence moment where, you know, just I read these things and it's, I like, I love sinking deep into books that are really changing my mind and like teaching me about the world in ways that I never could have imagined, and I love that so much and I… I don't know if I have that to offer, but I really try hard, you know. Like I tried that with the chicken book. I'm kind of trying that, I hope, in this book that I'm trying to finish and— ha finish!—that I'm trying to get through. And so I think that that's why I think that art is so important.   I don't know if that's truly why I write though. I feel like why I write is that I've always written, and it's like I love it so much. Like I just, sometimes I hate it, sometimes I hate it for like a whole year or whatever, but it's just, it's so much a core of who I am. (01:00:39) And I just, I can't imagine my life any other way. It's just it's just absolutely urgent to me.   Annie: Yeah, urgent. Yeah. I think we all feel that in some way.   Annie:(01:01:04.374) Thank you both for talking to us a little bit about your friendship and getting to know a little bit more about how you started and where you're at now. We're going to move into the lightning round.   Lito: Ooooo Lightning round.   Annie: (01:01:16) Deb, who were you in seventh grade? Who was I in seventh grade? In one sentence, oh my God, the pressure is on. I was unpopular and looked, my hair was exactly the same as it is now. And I wore very similar clothes.   Lucy: (01:01:44) I was a peer counselor, and so I was like the Don who held everybody's secrets.   Lito: Beautiful. Lucy.   Lucy: It saved me. Otherwise, I wouldn't have had a place in that world.   Annie: Makes so much sense.   Lito: Wow. Who or what broke your heart first, deepest?   Lucy: I mean, I would just say my mom.   Deb: I guess, then I have to say my dad.   Annie: Okay, which book is a good lit friend to you?   Deb: Can I say two? The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas by Gertrude Stein and The Known World by Edward P. Jones.   Annie: Excellent.   Lucy: My go-to is White Noise. Still. Sorry.   Lito: No need to apologize.   Lucy: Yep.   Annie Lito (01:02:27) Who would you want to be lit friends with from any point in history?   Lucy: For me it's Jane Bowles.   Deb: Oh, whoa. Good one. She would be maybe a little difficult. I was gonna say Gertrude Stein, then I was like, actually, she'd be a little difficult.   Lucy: What a jerk!   Deb: I think Zora Neale Hurston would be fun.   Lucy: Well, yeah, of course. For sure.   Annie: We were gonna ask who your lit frenemy from any time might be, but maybe you've already said.   Lucy: Oh, right. I accidentally said my lit frenemy instead of my lit friend.   Annie: Yeah.   Lucy: Mm-hmm.   Deb: (01:03:08) A frenemy from any time?   Annie: Any time. Yeah, it doesn't have to be Jonathan Franzen. I feel like most people will just be like Jonathan Franzen. But it could be any time in history.   Deb: I mean, if you're gonna go that route, then it would probably be, um, like...   Lito: Kierkegaard.   Deb: I don't know, maybe Nietzsche? If you're gonna go that route, if you're gonna go like, like existential philosophers.   Annie: (01:03:34) That's great.   Lito: That could be a podcast too.   Annie: Just like epic frenemy. The most epic frenemy.   Lito: (01:03:35)  Well, that's our show.   Annie & Lito: Thanks for listening.   Annie: We'll be back next week with our guests Melissa Febos and Donika Kelly.    Lito: Find us on all your socials @LitFriendspodcasts   Annie: And tell us about an adventure you've had with your Lit bestie. I'm Annie Liontas.   Lito: And I'm Lito Velazquez.   Annie: Thanks to our production squad. Our show was edited by Justin Hamilton.   Lito: Our logo was designed by Sam Schlenker.   Annie: Lisette Saldaña is our Marketing Director.   Lito: Our theme song was written and produced by Roberto Moresca.   Annie: And special thanks to our show producer Toula Nuñez.   Lito: This was Lit Friends, Episode 2.

In the first episode of Season 1, co-hosts Annie Liontas and Lito Velázquez speak with LitFriends Angela Flournoy & Justin Torres about their enduring friendship, writing in a precarious world, and chosen family. Links https://sites.libsyn.com/494238 www.annieliontas.com www.litovelazquez.com https://linktr.ee/litfriendspodcast https://www.instagram.com/litfriendspodcast/ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61553436475678 https://justin-torres.com/ https://www.angelaflournoy.com/ https://www.asalisolomon.com/ Transcript Annie & Lito (00:01) Welcome to LitFriends! Hey LitFriends! Annie: Welcome to the show. Lito: Today we're speaking with the great writers and LitFriends, Justin Torres and Angela Flournoy. Annie: About chosen family, the dreaded second novel, and failure and success. Lito: So grab your bestie and— 
 Both: Get ready to get lit! Lito: That's so cute. Annie: It's cute. It's cute. We're cute! Lito: Cute, cute… So you had a question? Annie (00:29) I do. I have a question for you, Lito. Are you a cat or an ox? Lito: I mean, I would hope that the answer is so obvious that it almost bears not asking the question. I'm a cat. Annie: Okay, so Asali Solomon at The Claw asked us all, are you an ox or a cat? Lito: That's a great question. Annie: And as a writer... You know, the oxen are the people who work every day in the field, clock in, clock out, pay themselves a quarter an hour. I'm literally talking about me. The cats are people who are playful, exploratory, when the mood strikes them… Lito: Why are you looking at me when you say that? Annie Lito (01:26) So are you an ox or a cat? Lito: I'm a cat. I think anyone who's ever met me would say I'm a cat. Annie: How does that show up in your writing? Lito: Well, I mean, play is so important to me—she'll be on the  podcast in a couple of episodes, but when I first...was studying with Lucy, that was one of the first things that she spoke about in our class, and it kind of blew up my whole world. I had been writing for a long time already, but I hadn't thought of it as play, or there was some permission I needed or something. So the idea of play is really central to what I do and love. You wouldn't necessarily know that from the novel that I'm writing, which is sort of a dark book. Um, but it did start out with a lot of play and, I'm also, as you could probably just hear, my cat is coming into the room. Annie: Your cat is like, yes, Lito is us. RiffRaff is like, "Lito is cat." Lito: My cat Riff Raff, yes. Smarty pants. Um, he needed to join in on this conversation. Anyways, I'm a cat. I, I'm fickle when it comes to my work. Um. I don't want to work on my novel all the time, which is great because life has found so many ways to prevent it from happening. So in the new year, in 2024, it will be 7 years since I've started writing this book, and it's still, it's going to take a few more months at least. And what about you? Annie:  (03:09) I'm four oxen pulling a cart carrying all of my ancestors. I am very much the immigrant who says, get up, go do the work, come back, go do the work. And believe it or not, for me, there is a lot of joy in that. It's a... It allows, you know, it's Csikszentmihalyi's Flow, actually. So it doesn't feel like drudgery, usually. It does feel like joy. And I'm actually curious for all you LitFriends out there, if you're an ox or a cat. Lito: Yes, that's such a great idea. Please email us at litfriendspodcast@gmail.com, and tell us if you're a cat or an oxen or share on all your socials. Annie: Yeah, maybe we should poll them. That would be fun. Lito: That's a good idea. #LitFriendsPodcast. Annie: The reason I'm asking is because, of course, both Justin and Angela, who we speak with today in this episode, talk about what it's like to go for 10 years between books. "A banger a decade," is what Angela says. Lito: It's so funny. Annie: And you, you know, part of that, they have this very rich conversation about how, when you put everything into the first book, it takes a lot to get to the second book. But I think also there's a lot of play, right? And there's a lot of understanding that writing appears in different forms. And it might be the second novel, but it might be something else. Lito: For sure. I really like how they talk about— that the practice of writing is actually a practice of reading. And I think that any serious writer spends most of their time reading. And not just reading books, but texts of all kinds, in the world, at museums, as Justin points out, art, television, even the trashiest TV show has so much to offer. Annie: (05:12) And there's such a generosity to the way they think of themselves as artists, and also generosity in how they show up for one another as friends, and acknowledging when they fail one another as we as we see in this episode. And I remember my introduction to Justin when I was a grad student at Syracuse. I read We the Animals and fell in love with it, asked him to come do a reading at Syracuse, which was wonderful. And my wife who, at that time was my Bey-ancé, she was turning 30. We had no money. I couldn't buy her anything. Not in grad school. So I asked Justin if he would autograph his story, "Reverting to a Wild State," which is about a breakup in reverse, for Sara. Lito: Oh, I love that story. Annie: And he did, and he thought it was so beautiful, and I was like, "let me send it to you." He's like, "no, I've got it." He just shipped it to me. He didn't know me. We didn't know each other. Lito: He knew you because of books. He knew you because he loved literature. Annie: Yeah. And I remember that in it. I held on to it at a time when that act really mattered. Lito: One of the things I love about our interview with Justin and Angela is how much all of us talk about generosity, and how Justin and Angela display it in their conversation with each other and with us. And I'm just curious, how do you see that coming through also in Angela's work? Annie: (07:00) You know, I remember her talking about how the idea for the book began with this image of people moving around a house at night. This is The Turner House. And she says this image opens up a lot of questions. And one of the things that really stays with me about that book is how masterful she is at shifting perspective, particularly between siblings, which I find to be such a challenge for writers, right? Like your siblings are the people who are closest to you and sometimes also the farthest away. And she gets that so intimately on the page. And of course, in our conversation with Angela and Justin, one of the things they talk about is being family, essentially being siblings. And that's one of the most powerful echoes of the conversation. They talk about being a chosen family and having to choose again and again and again. And that spirit of consciousness and connection, I feel that very much in Angela's work, and of course in Justin's too. Lito: Oh Annie, I choose you again and again, I choose you. Annie: Oh, I choo-choo-choose you! Lito: So stupid. Annie: (08:05) After the break, we'll be back with Justin and Angela. Annie: (08:24) And we're back. Lito: I just wanted to mention, too, that we spoke with Angela and Justin in October during the writer's strike in Hollywood, and just before Justin's new book, Blackouts, was released. And just last week, as you're hearing this podcast. Annie: Just last week. Lito: Just last week! He won the National Book Award for a book that took him 10 years to write. Annie: Absolutely. Annie: Justin Torres is the author of Blackouts, a novel about queer histories that are hidden, erased and re-imagined. Blackouts won the 2023 National Book Award for fiction. His debut novel, We the Animals, has been translated into 15 languages and was adapted into a feature film. He was named National Book Foundation's Five Under 35. His work appears in the New Yorker, Harper's, Granta, Tin House, Best American Essays, and elsewhere. He lives in Los Angeles and teaches at UCLA. Lito: Angela Flournoy is the author of The Turner House, which was a finalist for the National Book Award, won the VCU-Cabel First Novel Prize, and was also a finalist for both the Center for Fiction First Novel Prize and an NAACP Image Award. Angela is a contributing writer at the New York Times Magazine, and her nonfiction has appeared in The Nation, the Los Angeles Times, The New Yorker, and elsewhere. Angela is a faculty member in the low residency MFA program at Warren Wilson College. Lito: (10:36) I'm so grateful that you guys found time to meet with us today, and I've thought about you two as friends since I think this is like the first time you've done something like what you did in 2017, the "Proper Missive"—do you remember that—you published in Spook? And it stuck with me. I was like a big, nerding out, and I bought it and I have it still. And I thought about that. And Justin, you know that you're very personal— there's a personal connection with me because I found your book on my way to my first master's program. No one had said anything about it to me where I was coming from, and it was really great. And Angela, I first found your book. I was so amazed and moved by the talk you don't remember at Syracuse. Angela: I don't remember the lunch. I remember being at Syracuse, and there being a talk, yes. Lito: You inscribed your book, "Here's to Language," which I think is hilarious and also really sweet. And I think we must have said something about language at some point. But anyways, thank you so much both for being here. Justin: Thank you for having us. Angela: Very happy to be here. Lito: So let's start. Why don't you tell us about your friend in a few sentences? So Angela, you can go first. Tell us about Justin. Angela: (11:23) Justin is the first person that I met in Iowa City when I was visiting and deciding if I was going to go there, but was I really deciding no? I'll let you go there. But that I could like, deciding whether I would be miserable while I was there. And so Justin was the first person I met. And feel like Justin is five years older than me. It has to be said.  Justin: Does it? Angela: When I think about people, and I think about like mentors, I have other like amazing mentors, but like, I think that there's really something special about somebody who some people might think is your peer, but like, in a lot of ways you've been like looking up to them and, um, that has been me with Justin. I think of him as like a person who is not only, he's a Capricorn, and he has big Capricorn energy. I am an Aquarius. I do not want to be perceived— Justin: I don't agree with any of this. But I don't know. I don't follow any of this. Angela: But Justin is in the business of perceiving me and also gathering me up and helping me do better. My life is just always getting better because of it. I'm grateful for it. Annie: That is beautiful, all of that is beautiful. Justin, tell us about Angela. Justin: I can't follow that, that is so...  Angela: Acurate! Justin: You're so prepared! You're so sweet! I'm so touched! Angela: Only a Capricorn would be touched by somebody saying that you perceive them and gather them up and make them feel better. Ha ha ha! Justin: I like that, I do like that. Let's see, yeah. I mean, I think that when we met, I had already been in Iowa for a year, and within two seconds, I was like, oh, we're gonna be friends, and you don't know it yet. But I knew it intensely. And yeah, I think that one of the, I agree that I think we keep each other honest, I think. I think that one of the things that I just so appreciate about Angela is that, you know, yeah, you see my bullshit. You put up with it for like a certain amount of time, and then you're like, all right, we need to talk about the bullshit that you're pulling right now. And I love it, I love it, love it, love it, because I don't know, I think you really keep me grounded. I think that, yeah, it's been really (14:09) wonderful to have you in my life. And like, our lives really, really kind of pivoted towards one another. You know, like we've, it was not just like, oh, we were in grad school and then, you know, whatever, we have similar career paths, so we stayed friends or whatever. It's like, we became family. And, you know, every, every kind of major event in either of our lives is a major event, a shared major event, right? And that's like, yeah, I don't know. I can't imagine my life without you. I honestly can't. Angela: Likewise. I gave birth in Justin's home. Annie: Oh! Sweet! Justin: In my bathroom, over there. Right over there. Lito: Whoa, congratulations, and also scary(?)! Angela: It's in a book I'm writing, so I won't say so much about it, but it was a COVID home birth success story. And yeah, like family. Lito: Was that the plan or did that just happen? Angela: Well, It wasn't the plan and then it was the plan. Justin: Yeah, exactly. COVID wasn't the plan. Angela: No. Justin: The plan was Angela was gonna sublet my place with her husband and she was pregnant. And then, COVID happened Angela: There were a lot of pivots. But we did, it was like enough of a plan where we got his blessing to give birth in his home. Justin: It wasn't a surprise. Angela: It was a surprise that it was in the bathroom, but that's a different story. Annie: You blessed that bathroom is all I can say. Angela: Yeah. Lito: We'll be right back. Back to the show. Annie: (16:22) Well, I want to come back to what Lido was saying about proper missives. I love the intimacy. I mean, I know you weren't writing those to one another for kind of public consumption, but the intimacy and the connection, it's so moving. And I was thinking about, you know, Justin, you, you talk about Angela as kind of pointing the way to beauty and helping you see the world anew or differently. And Angela, you talked about how Justin encourages you to take up space as a political act. I'm just wondering what else you all have taught one another. What has your LitFriend taught you? Justin: Yeah, I mean, we did write that for public consumption. Angela: Yes, it was the editor-in-chief of Spook, Jason Parham. Spook is relaunching soon, so look out for it. He just told me that, like, the other day. And he's moving to L.A. So many things are happening. But he reached out to us and was really interested in—he's a big archives guy and like how—he thought it was valuable the way that writers of past generations, they have these documents of their letters to each other, to their editors, to their friends, to their enemies, and how this generation, because we're just texting through it, we don't really have that. And so that was really just the extent of the assignment, was to write letters to each other, which, of course, we still ended up using email to do. But we really tried to keep it in the spirit of a letter and not just something you kind of dash off. Justin: And we were not living in the same place at that time. Angela: No. Justin: So it was, it did feel kind of— Angela: I was in Provincetown, I think. Justin: Yeah, I remember I was on a train when I was, when I was doing— I can't remember where I was going or, but I remember a lot of it was— or a few of those correspondences— because it went over days, weeks. Lito: Yeah, you were going to Paris. Angela: Oh. Glamorous train. You were on the Eurostar. Justin: Wow. Annie: You basically said the same thing then, Angela. Call him out. Justin: (18:32) Yeah, and I think that what I was saying was that one of the things I loved about that was it really forced us to dive deeper, right? To kind of— Sometimes we can stay very much on the surface because we talk every day. And so it was really nice to see, not just what was kind of on your mind in the background, but also how you were processing it, how you kind of made language and meaning out of it. I was just like... I don't know, it's like, I know you're so deep, but then we also love to be shallow. And so it's so nice to be like, to connect from that deep place. Annie: One of the things that I'm so drawn to about both of your work is how you write about family, the way it shapes us, the way it wounds us, what it means to watch family members suffer. You talk about it as the question of the donut hole in "Proper Missive. Angela, I remember you were writing about your father. When you were writing about him, you talk about, "the assumption that a flawed person should be subject to anyone's definition." And Justin, I'm thinking quite broadly in terms of, you know, chosen or logical family. One of my favorite pieces that I teach in my creative non-fiction class is "Leashed," and you write there, "my friends, those tough women and queers were all too sharp and creative for their jobs. If I'm nostalgic, it's not because I was happy in those precarious years, but because I was deeply moved by our resourcefulness." I'm just wondering how you think about, you know, (20:09) family, logical family, and how your lit friendship fits into this? Justin: Who's going first? Angela: You. Justin: Let's see, I think that it's such a great question. I actually like, I use that little short kind of tiny little piece that you referenced. I use that in my book, in Blackouts, that's coming out. I think that, which is a book about chosen family as well, and lineages, and what do you do when you feel there's some kind of disruption, right? That like if you're estranged from your biological family or you know or you just need these connections, these kind of queer connections to and other ways of thinking about family that are not related to (21:06) bloodlines. Like we said earlier, we are family, and we've known that for quite a while. It was something that, I don't know. You know, it's like something that I don't think you ever really need to say. It's just you know who your people are. And I think that, and I think that it's a choice that you make and remake again and again and again. And that is something that is, I don't know, it's so exceptional, right? Compared to bloodlines and biological family, which can be hugely important and bring a lot of meaning to people. But that you're choosing this again and again. Like almost like the kind of past tense chosen family is like, it's like a little bit inaccurate, right? It's like the family you choose, and keep choosing, and you're choosing right now, you know? So I love that. Yeah. Angela: Just that the continuity of it, not in the sense that it's always going to be there, but that like you are, you're like an active, uh, engager like in it. In it, I just think about, I think about that, like, uh, at this point we know each other for 14 years. And the way that there's just necessarily we're not the same people but you have to keep, and you have to keep engaging, and you have to keep figuring out how to navigate different things and I think particularly as like LitFriends there's the huge thing you have to navigate which is especially if you're friends before that you're just like some kids who got into this program that people think are fancy, but you're just like, anything can happen, right? From there to being the capital— going from just like lowercase w, "writer," to capital A, "Author." And like what that, I mean, I've seen many a friendship where that is the rupture. And so particularly figuring out, like, how are you going to navigate that, and how are you going to still be in each other's lives. (23:16.33) Um, one thing I think about, as a person who thinks about family a lot is, with your family, sometimes you can like harm one another, and you'll just take some time off, or you'll just be like, that's how they are. But with the family that you continue to choose, you have to, ideally, you gotta do something about it. You have to actually have the engagement, and you have to figure out how to come out on the other side of it. And that is something that is harder and really in so many ways, all the more precious because of it. And it requires a kind of resilience and also just like a trust. And again, because Justin, you know, likes to gather me up, there's been a few times when I was like, "Oh, no, like, we've got beef, what's gonna happen?" And Justin is like, "we're family, what's gonna happen is we're gonna have to talk about this beef, and then move on." Justin: Yeah. And I think that I think that also you have, you're really good at reminding me to be responsible, right? That just because I've made this commitment, in my mind, right, Like we're committed forever. Like we're family. Like we can't, we can't break up, right? Like it's just like, that's just the way it is. It doesn't get me off the hook of showing up in other ways and being responsible and like, you know, that I can be quite flaky. Angela: I mean, that's just, you've been in L.A. long enough. It's just, you're just becoming native. Justin:  I think I always don't, I don't wanna disappoint you. I don't want you ever to feel like you were looking around for support, and I wasn't there. Angela: Do people cry on this podcast? Annie: We time it. Right at the half hour. Justin: There's been a few moments when I feel it, when I've felt (25:21) maybe that wasn't there enough, you know? And, you know, and if, you know, and like, I don't know, that's when you know it's the real stuff because it like keeps me up at night. You know, I'm just like, wow, you know, what does she need? What can I give? How can I be there? And yeah. Angela: Wow.  There you are. Justin: Here we are. Annie: Lito and I are also family, and it sort of feels never too late. But what you're saying about kind of the like renewing your vows, renewing your commitment over and over, it feels very, very true. Lito: Very true. Yeah yeah yeah. Annie: And life-saving, you know, like life affirming. Lito: It feels real. Justin: Yeah. Look at us. I'm proud of us. I'm proud of you guys too. Lito: It's a love fest over here. Angela: Thanks for having it. Annie: We'll be right back. Annie: (26:26) Welcome back. Angela: Also, particularly again, thinking about a lot of the friends that you have, they're not necessarily also sometimes colleagues. And I think that one thing that Justin really modeled, because I didn't have anything to be transparent about, was just transparency about things. Not just how much he's getting paid for things, but just like what was worth it, what's not worth it, like what is just the way something is and you can like take it or leave it. And I think that in the beginning it was more of me kind of taking that information because I didn't have anybody offering me anything. But now I feel like it's really an exchange of information. And I think that there are people who I love, like, in this industry, if you will, who that's just not our relationship. That doesn't mean we don't have great friendships, but like that is something that like if I'm broke, he knows I'm broke. I never feel the need to pretend and hide or like, you know, and likewise, like if he don't got it, I know he don't got it. It's not, it's just, it just, and I feel like that is something also that is a, it's, um, I think it's important. Especially because you write a book, you know, it does well. And then there are some years in between before you write another. Some of us in this room, maybe take a decade. All of us in this room, maybe take a decade. But yeah, so just really being able to be, to feel like you can still show up at any point in whatever you're doing creatively. Justin: (28:16) Because this is about literary friendships, I think that it's, yeah, there's those two sides, right? There's the business side, which can cause a lot of friction, especially if, you know, things go differently for different books and people have different trajectories. I mean, you're like, you know:  you've surpassed.  Angela: I don't know if that's true.  Justin: But there's that like business side of it. And then there's the literary side as well. And I think that sometimes if it just slides too much into talking about—it's like we could both be selling sprockets, right? There's so much minutiae. It's like we could talk about contracts and whatever and like gigs and da-da-da ad nauseam. And we have to remember to talk about literary side, the literature, the work, the sentences, what we're reading in order to kind of sustain the literary quality of a literary friendship, right?  Angela: One thing I remember you told me, I don't know, ages ago that I thought at the time like oh he's gassing me he's practicing things that he says his students tell me—but now I realize that it is also one of the reasons why our friendship has sustained is you were like ,you know, we can talk about whether a book is successful in 800 ways, but we have to try to remember to just be fans, to be fans of books, of literature, of people writing. And I think that is something that I not only try to practice, but that's something that I think is really foundational to relationship. Everyone can be a hater, and it can be fun sometimes, but like… (30:08) We really do like want to put each other on to the books that we're like excited about. Like I remember when you read or reread Seasons of Migration to the North by Tayeb Salih, and I hadn't read it before.  I mean, it's like a, it's a seminal or really a really famous African text, but I had never read it. Or like Maryse Condé, like I hadn't read it as like a real adult and being able to just like talk about that and know that there's a person who's, you know, you could be in polite conversation with somebody who you think is really smart and then you're like you know what I decided I wanted to reread—I don't know—something a person might wanna reread and they're like, Oh, what are you gonna do next? You gonna read a Moby Dick? And you're like, Oh damn, they just shamed me. You know, they just shamed me for being a nerd. But that's not gonna happen here. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.  Annie: I do wanna go back to something you were alluding to. Angela, you were talking quite openly about it, too, which is shifting from writer to capital A author and the pressure that comes with that.  For the two of you, you had incredible well-deserved success early in your career, but I imagine that doesn't come without a lot of sleepless nights, right? I'm thinking about an interview I heard with Ta-Nehisi Coates where he talks about his friends not reaching out thinking, like, He's good, like, You blew up, you're good. And talking about actually what a lonely position that can be. I'm just wondering, you know, how you've both managed to take care of one another through those highs and lows, or being on that track alongside one another.  And even, you know, competition between lit friends. Justin: (32:13) Yeah, I mean, I think that we're just kind of, like our dispositions: we're very lucky in that I think we, before we met, it wasn't something that we like decided on. It was just before we met, I think we're just boosters, right. We're like, The people we love, their success is our success, right? And I think that's one of the reasons to where we are such good friends, it's because we share that, right? So that I think makes it slightly easier as far as like the competition side of things goes. I think that if it really does feel like you're a family and you're community and like you understand that this is a kind of shared win. I don't know, it's hard to talk about though because we both got really lucky.  Angela: Yeah.  Justin: You know, I mean, who wants to hear from people who got really lucky with their first books talking about how hard it is? You know what I mean?  We just, we didn't have, we didn't have any kind of that disparity between— Angela: Yeah, I'm sure, but—I would say even so—if we had different dispositions, we might be trying to split hairs about who got what. But I think for me—and Justin and I grew up very differently in some ways, but I think we grew up from a class background similarly, and we're both like, We're not supposed to be here, like, what can we get? Like, what can we get? And like, who has the information to help us get it? And so I've never been like, why is he in that room when I'm not in that room? I'm like, give me the intel about the room. That might be the closest I ever get to being in there, but I need to know like what's going on in there. And that has, I think, been the way that I just view any success of anybody that I know. that I feel like I can ask those questions to is like, not necessarily like, oh, can you put me on? Like now that you have something, can I have some of it? But just like, just information, just like, what's it like? And that to me is really useful. But also I think that one thing, when you have people, not just Justin, but like other friends and mentors of mine, when you have people who are honest and upfront about whatever kind of success they've had, you… you just realize that there's a lot of different ways to feel successful, right? Because I have friends who, to me, I'm like, they made it, but they're not convinced they have. And I have other friends that, like, to the outside world, they'd be like, wow, they have a little book, nobody cares. But they feel like they did it, you know? And so I realized it's so much about disposition also. Lito:   Do you feel that a lot about being each other's boosters? I mean, obviously it's about your personalities and who you are as people. I'm also curious how much of that, like Angela, you said you were a gatecrasher. You feel like a gatecrasher a lot. I don't know. What are your thoughts on intersectionality? How does it inform your work and your friendship? How does it affect how you boost each other? I'm also curious if there's something particular about lit friendships that intersect with intersectionality and those categories, especially for people who form intimate relationships with men.  Justin:   Wait, say more.  Like how do blowjobs come in?   Angela:  (36:01.171). I was like one thing we have in common is— Lito: More like, less blow jobs, more like having to deal with men and the various ways they, you know, respond to patriarchy.  Justin: Yeah, I think you kind of said it, right? I think that there's something about hustling and figuring out, like, how am I gonna find some stability in this world.  And I mean we have nominated each other for every single thing that there is. If either one of us gets a chance.  Angela: Till the end of time.  Justin:   Till the end of time, right? And it's just, and I think that, and we've shared all information about everything. There's no, and I think that that's kind of like that quote that you read before, right, about this nostalgia and feeling nostalgic, not for the precarity, but for the way that it bonds people, right? The way that the precarity, like you pull, you share resources, you pull resources, you come together and you talk shit and you don't let people get too down in the dumps and depressed. And you're like, no, we're going to do this. We're going to get ourselves out of this hole and we're going to pull each other up. And, and that I think is like, that's, that's the secret, I think.  Angela: Are you answering the question about men?  Justin:   Oh, men!  Angela: And dealing with men.  Justin: I love that I was just like, oh, you're talking about blow jobs. But no, you were talking about patriarchy.  Lito: Same thing, really.  Annie: In the room I'm in, we do not think there's a difference.  Justin: It's fascinating, right? Because when we were at Iowa together, I remember some of the critiques I got from some of the men, some of the straight men, some of the white straight men, was about a kind of provincialism to my writing, right? That what I was writing about was small and minor and just about particularities of identity and that it wasn't broad and expansive and it wasn't universal. That was expected. That was the kind of critique that was expected. The world has changed so much and so quickly in the last 15 years. It's hard for me to kind of wrap my mind around because that kind of thing, I wasn't, I didn't feel indignant. Maybe I felt a little.  Angela: Yeah, you just, but you just like knew you were going to ignore them. Like, you know, like, but no, but you didn't feel like you were going to, like it was worth, except there were some instances we're not going to get into details, but like, it didn't feel like it was worth spending, like unpacking it or trying to call them out. You just were like, Oh, boop, you're over here. Like, you're not.  Justin: Yeah, yeah. Like, I've been hearing this shit my whole life. Like, it wasn't like, there's no space for this kind of thing in the workshop. I was like, this is the world. This is unexpected. But now I don't think that would fly, right?  Angela:   No. I think maybe in like 70% of workshop spaces that I have been in. Well, I guess I've been running them. But like, I just don't, but like also just the disposition of the students is that they assume that somebody is going to like say something or push back on that. But also I guess maybe more broadly the idea of when you say intersectionality, what do you mean exactly? Lito: I think I wanted to keep it open on purpose. But I think I mean the ways that all of these different identities that we take up and that are imposed upon us, how they intersect with one another, race, class, et cetera. Yeah. Angela: I think one of the reasons why Justin and I gravitated toward each other probably in the beginning and why we ended up in Spook is because I think that—which maybe is also not happening 15 years from then—there is a way that back then, there was a way that even your identity could be flattened, right? Like you're Puerto Rican, which means that you are like a lot of things, right? One of those things like, one of it's like we're both diasporic people, right? But that's one of the things that I think a lot of people would not necessarily think is like a kinship between us, but like I've seen pictures of Justin's cousins. I know I'm giving Primo over here. Like I know what I'm doing. And like that's one way that I think that our relationship feels like, like we just felt like kin when we first met because of that. I think that there's just a lot of ways that in a lot of spaces in this country, you're just not allowed to like have all of those parts of you in the room because people just don't understand it or they do, but they just don't want you to be that also.  Justin: It's not convenient.  Angela: Right. Which is why I was like, of course, Jason would ask you and I to be in Spook, which is a magazine that's a black literary magazine. Cause Jason gets it. Shout out to Jason again.  Justin: I can't believe he's moving to L.A., that's so exciting.  Angela: Supposedly like any day now, he's just gonna arrive. There's just ways that when you find your people, you don't have to always separate these parts of you and you don't always have to keep reminding them also, they sort of understand. But also parts of you change obviously and the way that you feel about your identity changes and your people will embrace that and keep, you know, keep making space for that too. Justin: Making space.  Annie: We'll be back in a moment with Angela and Justin. Lito: (42:22) Hey Lit Fam, we hope you're enjoying our conversation with Justin and Angela. We are quite awed by their thoughtful discussion and moved by their deep love for each other and their art. If you love what we're doing, please take a moment now to follow, subscribe, rate, and review the LitFriends Podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Just a few moments of your time will help us so much to continue bringing you great conversations like this week, after week. Thank you for listening. Annie: (42:59.178) Back to our interview with Justin Torres and Angela Flournoy.  Lito: Justin, you have your sophomore book. How do you feel about it? Are you going to write a sequel for We the Animals like you talked about at one point? Angela, same question. Are there sequels coming forth for you, Angela, to Turner House, or are you moving on to something else? Or you sort of briefly mentioned another book about, uh, I remember you mentioning at some point a book about friends, four female friends, if I remember correctly. Anyways, what's coming next?  Annie: Yeah, and I wanna know about the dreaded second novel because I feel like that's where I'm at. I feel like that's where a lot of writers get stuck. Jutin: Second novel's awful. I mean, you think the first one's bad. You think it takes everything that you have inside of you and then you're like, oh, I've gotta do it again. And yeah, I don't know. I really had a very hard time with it. And I mean, nobody knows better than Angela. I really, really didn't feel like I was up to the task. I knew that I wanted to do something different. I knew I wanted to kind of change the way I write and be a different kind of writer, but I just felt like I was falling on my face.  Even after it was done and out until like last week, I was just, I just felt anxiety about it, and I felt really neurotic and I was being really neurotic. And I remember the other night we were hanging out and drinking and maybe there was some mushroom chocolate involved. I was just, like I was just on my bullshit and Angela was just like stopped and she was just like, What is it gonna take to make you happy? Like what is it gonna take? Like look around. And it was like, it was a really good intervention. But then it also led to this conversation about happiness, right? And about like whether that is the goal, right? Like feeling kind of tortured and, and feeling like this gap between what you want for your book and your own capabilities. And that never goes away. You just live in this, in this torturous phase. And like, maybe it's about just coming to acceptance with that, rather than striving for happiness. I don't know. But it's still ringing in my ear. What is it gonna take?  Lito: It's a great question.  Angela:   Maybe some projection, I don't know, on my part.  I am still working on that novel. It's due at the end or at the beginning of next year. It's gonna come out in 2025. You know, God willing. And... similarly the second novel, I think it depends on your disposition, but I think both of us are very interested in and task ourselves with having real skin in the game with what we right. That means sometimes you got to figure out where you get that skin from.  Lito: There's only so much.  Angela: Like, if you played yourself for the first book, then it's gonna take a while. And when I think about, like, when I try to count for the years, I don't know I could have done it any quicker. Like, I just don't know. And I don't think that's gonna be the case for every book, but I do think between that first and that second, especially, were you 30? Where were you? I was 30, yeah. And then I was 30, too. I was 30 also when my book came out. You're just a baby.  You're just a baby.  Lito: Do you fall into the trap of comparing yourself to other people? Well, they wrote a book in two years and I— Justin:  (47:07) Yeah, sure. I mean, I also like compare myself to people who took longer like that feels good. That feels good.  Angela: Listen, I'm like Deborah Eisenberg. Just a banger every decade. That's it. That's all I owe the world. A banger a decade. Lito: A banger a decade. I like that. I like comparing myself to Amy Clampitt, who wrote her first collection of poetry, like in her 70s or something and had some success.  Justin: I generally wish people would slow down. I mean, I get that sometimes there's just like an economic imperative, right? But if you're lucky enough that, I don't know, you get a teaching job and you can slow down, why not slow down, right? Like, I don't know, sometimes I feel like there are a lot of books in this world. And the books that somebody spent a lot of time over, whether or not they are my tastes—I'm just so appreciative of the thoughtfulness that went in.  You can feel it, right? That somebody was really considering what they're building versus dashing it off. They should slow down, if they can.  Angela: But I also feel like we need both kinds. There are people who I appreciate their books, their kind of time capsules of just like, this is the two years, this is where I was. I think of Yiyun. We need an Yiyun Li and we need an Edward P. Jones. Edward P. Jones, you're gonna get those books when you get the books. And Yiyun Li, every couple years, you're gonna get something that, to me, I still, they still feel like really good books, but they're also just like, this is where she is right here, and I respect it and I appreciate it. Everybody can't be one or the other, you know?  Justin: You're right, you're right, you're right. It's much fairer.  Annie: She's someone who, I mean, you know, seems to have changed so much even within that time period. And we had her on a couple of episodes ago and yeah, she's just on fire. She's amazing.  Justin: (49:06) And people speed up as well, right? Because her first couple of books, there were big gaps. And then same thing with like Marilynne Robinson, right? She had massive gaps between books. And then suddenly it starts to speed up. And they're coming out every year, every two years. Yeah. Annie: It's the mortality.  Lito: Well, and life, well, I think lifestyle too, right? Like what you do, how busy you are and what you do out in the world. Like going out and meeting people and being gay in the world, that takes up time.  Annie: And your work has had other lives too. I mean, I'm thinking about how We the Animals was adapted to film in that beautiful, intimate portrait. And I know, you know, Angela, you've been working with HBO and some projects as well. I'm just, just wondering if you want to talk about your work in these other media, how it's been, and even thinking about the strikes, right? Like the WGA-SAG strikes and how that has been on the ground too.  Angela:  Very happy that the strike is over. Solidarity to our SAG-AFTRA brothers and sisters still out there. I passed them on the way here on Sunset. I did honk, wish I was out there today. But I think that for me, it's just like a bonus. Like I, especially now, there's a way that right now writers will say things that are a little snobby like, Oh, I could never be in a writer's room, the group project, man. But like when now that I know so many TV writers living here and I've met so many over the past 146 days on the line, I realized that it is, you just have to be so nimble and agile and you have to also be so not precious about story. But no less smart. A lot of things might end up on TV dumb, but I don't want to blame the writers for that. Now that I really have a real understanding of just how the sausage is made and just how big of like a game of telephone it is—and how much you have to relinquish control because at the end of the day it's like you're making this text, it's literary, but it's also like an instruction manual. It's a completely different way to think about writing. And I don't know how long I live in LA or how many like of those kind of projects I will do but I'm really grateful. And one reason I'm really grateful is because doing those projects and having those years where people thought I wasn't doing anything, but I was actually writing so much and like doing so many revisions.  It helped me realize that there is a way that I blame MFAs for making us like feel very siloed. And like, if you're supposed to be a fiction writer, that's the only thing that you do that's like an output that anyone cares about. But it's so new—like, how many screenplays did Joan Didion write? Like James Baldwin wrote screenplays. Before, it was just like, you're writing, you're writing. Like it's all, it all is the job. And I think every time a poet friend of mine like puts out a novel, sends it to me, read, sends it for me to read—first off, they usually are very good. But then also I'm just like, yes, fiction writers, I think, I don't know who did it. I blame graduate programs, but they have put themselves in this small box. Justin: But yeah, I mean, it's like the MFA, a lot of them feel like teacher training programs and that the next step is teaching. But if you don't want to teach the old models, definitely like you just write for TV. Angela: You write for film, you write for magazines, newspapers, you just do the thing. And that has felt very freeing to me, to just see meet more people who are doing that and also to allow myself to do that. Justin (52:49) Yeah, I mean, I really enjoyed the process of having my film—the book made into a film. I think I had an unusual experience with that. Like a lot of times the author is cut out or, you know, is not deferred to in any way, or nobody's inviting you in. I think because it was such a low budget film, and the director is just a really wonderful person who is incredibly collaborative.  He wanted me involved in every single part of it, and so I loved that. I think, I don't know, I think I might wanna adapt Blackouts for a play. I've been thinking about it lately. Angela: You should. I mean, in so many ways, it is kind of like a two-hander. Yeah. I could see it. Yeah.  Justin: A two-hander. Look at you ready to lingo. No, that's some biz lingo.  Lito: That's going to be the title of this podcast. It's a two-hander. How has art shaped your friendship? And I mean, art, like other genres, we've talked about getting out of the box of fiction, but what movies or art or music do you love to talk about or do you just talk about everything or anything that you're watching and how have other genres affected your work? Like, do you listen to music? Are you influenced by visual art?  Angela: You wanna talk about things you watch on television? You ready to come out in that manner?  Justin: No.  Lito: You watch lots of TV? No. Are you a Housewives person?  You're a Housewives watcher, aren't you?  Justin: Housewives is too highbrow for me. I have like a…I have a secret fetish that is mine. Angela: You have to keep some things for yourself. Justin: Yes. But it's just like, that's how I turn my brain off when my brain needs to be turned off.  Annie: I will wait another decade for that story. Justin: I also like culture and high art as well. You write about art a lot. You do profiles. Angela: I do. I wish I did it more. It's just everything, you know, takes time. I think for me, like when I think about—I just am learning different ways to make a life out of, you know, out of your mind and out of art. And one thing that I've learned when I talk to, like visual artists, particularly, is this idea—I think poets also have this—but fiction writers, a friend of mine actually, a poet, recently asked me, like, how does a fiction writer get a practice, like a practice of writing? Practicing their craft in a way that like a visual artist, you know, they go to the studio practice or poet might have a practice. And I don't believe necessarily that sitting down to write every, you know, three hours every day is the same thing. Because like if you don't know what you're writing, but I really do think that practice is more grounded in reading.  Justin: And reading, I think reading literature for sure, but also reading the world, right? And that's what you do when you go to an exhibit or you go to a museum or you go to a concert or whatever, right, you're like reading, you know, and you're reading the experience, you're reading for other things.  Lito: Is there anything you're both fans of that you both talk about a lot? Any artists or musicians or movies? Justin (56:26) You know, I think that we have some lowbrow sharing tastes. But I think that our highbrow, I don't know. We don't talk a lot about our pursuant— I think I'm into a lot of, like when I was looking at, when I was putting together Blackouts, I was looking at a lot of archival photos and like the photos of Carl Van Vechten, I just, I'm obsessed with…  I've been spending a lot of time with them, thinking about him and his practice. I think that, you know, I like all kinds of stuff. I'm like a whatever, what's that horrible term? Culture vulture?  Angela: I don't think that's what you wanna say. But I know what you mean, yeah.  Justin: Yeah, I am democratic in my tastes. I'm just like, I like everything. We don't have a lot of shared tastes, I don't think.  Angela: Um... No?  Justine: No.  Annie:  I sort of love that. I mean, it, um, the friendship, belies, that, you know, it's only a bonus in that way. I think Lito and I also have very different tastes. There's something kind of lovely about that. Lito: I remember Annie making fun of me for not being hardcore enough in my taste in hip-hop. Annie:    I guess we're putting our dirt out there too.  Lito:   We'll be right back with the Lightning Round. Annie:   Ooh, Lightning Round. Annie: (58:12) Thank you both for talking with us today. This was really wonderful. We really feel the honesty and warmth in your friendship and we're so appreciative that you're sharing that with us today and with all of our LitFriends. We're excited for both your books and we're so grateful you spent the last hour with us.  Angela: That was a pleasure.  Justin: Thank you. Lito: All right, we're gonna we— wrap up the podcast with a Lightning Round, just a few questions. We will ask the question and then I guess we'll do it this way. When I ask the question, Angela, you can answer. And when Annie asks the question, Justin, you answer first. Sorry, first answer first. You're both going to answer the question. What is your first memory?  Angela:  My sister roller skating through sprinklers and falling and hitting her head. Justin: I literally have no idea. I, yeah, I don't know. It's a blackout.  Angela: How many times have you said that?  Lito:  Very on brand.  Angela: You've had a long book tour. Justin: I'm practicing.  Annie: Who or what broke your heart first?  Angela: Is it too deep to say my daddy? I know.  Justin: I was going to say my daddy.  Angela: That's why we're friends.  Justin: I know. It's so sad.  Angela: (59:37) Daddy issues.  Lito: Who would you want to be lit friends with from any time in history?  Angela: Toni Morrison.   Justin: Yeah, maybe Manuel Puig. He seemed really cap and hilarious. And also a brilliant genius.  Angela: I need Toni Morrison to tell me how to raise my child. And to still write books. Someone help me. Annie: What would you like to see your lit friend make or create next, maybe something collaborative or something different or a story they haven't told yet?  Justin: I mean, I think I would love to see you actually write something kind of ekphrastic. Like I'd love to see you write about art. I love when you write about art. I love your thoughts about art and art makers. So maybe, like, a collection of essays about culture. I'd love that. Angela: Besides this two-handed, this play, which I would love for you to write. Maybe there's more, I mean, there's more voices in the book than two, though. So it doesn't have to be. Justin is a poet. I have said this since the beginning. I'm ready for this collection.  Justin: Never occurred to me in my life. Angela:   That is not true.  Justin:   Well, writing a collection. Angela:   Okay, well, I would love for you to write a collection of poetry.  Justin:   Maybe I will. Maybe you just gave me permission, as the children say.  Angela:   Mm-hmm. I know.  Lito: If you could give any gift to your LitFriend without limitations, what would you give them?  Angela: I would give him a house with a yard and a pool.  Justin: That's what I want.  Angela: In a city he wants to live in. That's the key.  Lito: That's the hard part. Justin:  (01:01:35) Um, I would give Angela time to be with her thoughts and her craft. I guess what does that involve?  Angela:   This is because I call myself a busy mom all the time.  Justin: You are a busy mom. Angela: (01:02:08) Thank you, that's a nice gift. Time is the best.  Justin: I mean, it's not as good as a house with a pool.  Angela: I know, because I can use my time as wisely as possible and yet—no pool. Lito: Well, that's our show. Annie & Lito: Happy Friendsgiving! Annie: Thanks for joining us, Lit Fam. Lito:   We'll be back next week with our guests, Lucy Corin and Deb Olin Unferth. Annie: Find us on all your socials @LitFriendsPodcast. Annie: I'm Annie Liontas.  Lito:   And I'm Lito Velázquez.  Annie:   Thank you to our production squad. Our show is edited by Justin Hamilton. Lito:   Our logo was designed by Sam Schlenker.  Annie:   Lizette Saldaña is our marketing director.  Lito:   Our theme song was written and produced by Robert Maresca.  Annie:   And special thanks to our show producer, Toula Nuñez. This was LitFriends, Episode One.

Aaliyah Bilal's TEMPLE FOLK is a captivating short story collection devoted to showing Black Muslims pursuing a life full of desire necessary to reaching one's own truth. This debut serves as a compelling means for America to recognize and acknowledge the historical significance of Black Muslims within the country's tapestry. Bilal's origin story in the publishing world is like nothing we've ever heard. She shares with us how Temple Folk received a book deal before she even had an agent after taking a chance on a tweet from a young, up-and-coming senior editor at Simon & Schuster. Bilal also talks to us about the inspiring works of Edward P. Jones and the tearful full-circle moment when her work was met with his praise.

Prolific author Dave Eggers, founder of McSweeney's, co-founder of 826 National, and other significant projects, first met Micheal Silverblatt in 2000, upon the publication of his first book –– a critically acclaimed memoir whose title he calls, "obnoxious." They formed a friendship over 22 years of conversation. In this episode, Eggers picks up the thread through what novelist Russell Banks called the Story of America. We'll hear from Edward P. Jones, Honorée Fanonne Jeffers, and Marilynne Robinson as they speak about slavery, race, and history.

When's the last time you read a short story? This hour, we talk about why short stories are so popular in the classroom, but why adults don't seem to read them much once they're done with school. And we make the case for why you should. Plus, a look at the art of the short story with some masters of the craft. You can read Rebecca Makkai's Substack post that inspired this show here.  Here is the story that is discussed in the final segment, “How I Became a Vet” by Rivka Galchen.  As part of this show we asked each of our guests to recommend a short story, a collection, or an author. Here are those recommendations: Rebecca Makkai: “The Dinner Party” by Joshua Ferris George Saunders: “The Stone Boy” by Gina Berriault, “The Conventional Wisdom” by Stanley Elkin Deborah Treisman: Liberation Day by George Saunders, After the Funeral by Tessa Hadley, “The Haunting of Hajji Hotak” by Jamil Jan Kochai Amy Bloom: “The Dead” by James Joyce, stories by Edward P. Jones, essays by Samantha Irby Irene Papoulis: “Drinking Coffee Elsewhere” by ZZ Packer Brian Slattery: “Hell is the Absence of God” by Ted Chiang Colin McEnroe: “The Hole on the Corner” and “What's the Name of That Town?” by R.A. Lafferty GUESTS:  Rebecca Makkai: Author of the Pulitzer Prize- and National Book Award-finalist The Great Believers, among other books; her newest book is I Have Some Questions For You, and she is artistic director of StoryStudio Chicago George Saunders: Author of twelve books; his most recent is Liberation Day, a collection of short stories Deborah Triesman: Fiction editor for The New Yorker and the host of their Fiction Podcast Amy Bloom: Author of four novels and three collections of short stories; her most recent book is the memoir In Love Irene Papouli: Teaches writing at Trinity College Brian Slattery: Arts editor for the New Haven Independent Join the conversation on Facebook and Twitter. Subscribe to The Noseletter, an email compendium of merriment, secrets, and ancient wisdom brought to you by The Colin McEnroe Show. The Colin McEnroe Show is available as a podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, TuneIn, Listen Notes, or wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe and never miss an episode.  Colin McEnroe and Cat Pastor contributed to this show.Support the show: http://www.wnpr.org/donateSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This week on the KPL Podcase, we have Rachel Heng discussing her highly anticipated book of 2023, The Great Reclamation.  Oprah Daily, Bustle and Electric Literature named this novel the most anticipated book of 2023.  Listen to learn more about this epic novel.The Absolutes by Molly DektarThe Known World by Edward P. Jones 

Eric Newman and Kate Wolf speak with the novelist and critic Darryl Pinckney about his new memoir, Come Back in September: A Literary Education on West Sixty-Seventh Street, Manhattan. The book recounts Pinckney's relationship with a legend of American letters: the singular stylist Elizabeth Hardwick. Hardwick was Pinckney's professor in a creative writing class at Barnard in the early 1970s, and they quickly became close friends. She invited him into her home, into her writing process, and into a world of New York literary culture and gossip, which Pinckney doles out here in generous cupfuls. It was through Hardwick that Pinckney met Barbara Epstein, an editor and co-founder of the New York Review of Books, where he began his writing career. His memoir documents a critical time in both his own life and in Hardwick's, including the dissolution of her marriage to the poet Robert Lowell, and the composition of her masterful novel, Sleepless Nights. Also, Namwali Serpell, author of The Furrows, returns to recommend "Old Boys Old Girls" a short story by Edward P. Jones from his collection All Aunt Hagar's Children.

Eric Newman and Kate Wolf speak with the novelist and critic Darryl Pinckney about his new memoir, Come Back in September: A Literary Education on West Sixty-Seventh Street, Manhattan. The book recounts Pinckney's relationship with a legend of American letters: the singular stylist Elizabeth Hardwick. Hardwick was Pinckney's professor in a creative writing class at Barnard in the early 1970s, and they quickly became close friends. She invited him into her home, into her writing process, and into a world of New York literary culture and gossip, which Pinckney doles out here in generous cupfuls. It was through Hardwick that Pinckney met Barbara Epstein, an editor and co-founder of the New York Review of Books, where he began his writing career. His memoir documents a critical time in both his own life and in Hardwick's, including the dissolution of her marriage to the poet Robert Lowell, and the composition of her masterful novel, Sleepless Nights. Also, Namwali Serpell, author of The Furrows, returns to recommend "Old Boys Old Girls" a short story by Edward P. Jones from his collection All Aunt Hagar's Children.

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/latino-studies

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/literary-studies

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/intellectual-history

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/intellectual-history

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

In Against Marginalization: Convergences in Black and Latinx Literatures (Ohio State University Press, 2022), Jose O. Fernandez examines thematic, aesthetic, historical, and cultural commonalities among post-1960s Black and Latinx writers, showing how such similarities have propelled their fight against social, cultural, and literary marginalization by engaging, adopting, and subverting elements from the larger American literary tradition. Drawing on the work of scholars in both literary traditions--including those who engage with the civil rights movements of the 1960s and 1970s--Fernandez finds intriguing points of convergence. His cross-cultural and comparative analysis puts Black and Latinx authors and literary works into the same frame as he considers the plays of Amiri Baraka and Luis Valdez, the fiction of James Baldwin and Rudolfo Anaya, the essays of Ralph Ellison and Richard Rodriguez, novels by Alice Walker and Helena María Viramontes, and the short fiction of Edward P. Jones and Junot Díaz. Against Marginalization thus uncovers points of correspondence and convergence among Black and Latinx literary and cultural legacies, interrogating how both traditions have moved from a position of literary marginalization to a moment of visibility and critical recognition.  Anna E. Lindner is a doctoral candidate in the Communication Department at Wayne State University in Detroit, Michigan. On Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

BAPC x The Known World Reggie & Akili breakdown Edward P. Jones's canonical novel, The Known World. Join The Fellowship—BAPC's Patreon Community Follow BAPC on Instagram Shop BAPC's Bookshop

“…In this particular book, I think I wanted to combat the feeling that we were already inundated with, and even the feelings that are attached to social justice issues. I wanted to combat the feelings of anger and helplessness and all of that with joy.” Margaret Wilkerson Sexton follows her NAACP Image Award-winning novel The Revisioners with On the Rooftop, a stunning novel about a mother whose dream of stardom for her three daughters clashes with their own desires in a rapidly gentrifying 1950s San Francisco. Margaret joins us on the show to talk about wanting to write a book that sits in conversation with Fiddler on the Roof, how her research led her to the Harlem of the West, writing a love story for an older couple, her literary inspirations and much more with Poured Over's host, Miwa Messer. Poured Over is produced and hosted by Miwa Messer and mixed by Harry Liang. Follow us here for new episodes Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays).   Featured Books (Episode) On the Rooftop by Margaret Wilkerson Sexton The Revisioners by Margaret Wilkerson Sexton A Kind of Freedom by Margaret Wilkerson Sexton The Yellow House by Sarah M Broom The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett Breath, Eyes, Memory by Edwidge Danticat The Candy House by Jennifer Egan Olive, Again by Elizabeth Strout The Secret Lives of Church Ladies by Deesha Philyaw All Aunt Hagar's Children by Edward P. Jones The Known World by Edward P. Jones   Featured Books (TBR Topoff) Swing Time by Zadie Smith Amy and Isabelle by Elizabeth Strout   A complete transcript of this episode is here.

Laird Hunt is a 2013 Anisfield-Wolf Book Awards winner for “Kind One,” a haunting novel that explores a horrible and uncanny intimacy between slave and master, inspired by a passage in Edward P. Jones' “The Known World.” Hunt's story, which also was a finalist for the PEN/Faulkner Award for Fiction, tells of two sisters who turn tables on their mistress and take her captive after her Kentucky farmer husband dies. Booker Prize winner Michael Ondaatje said of Hunt's work, "There is always a surprise in the voice and in the heart of Laird Hunt's stories, with its echoes of habit caught in a timeless dialect, so we see the world he gives us as if new. 'You hear something like that and it walks out the door with you.'" Hunt joined The Asterisk* in July of 2022 via zoom from his home in Providence, R.I., where he is a professor of literary arts at Brown University. A former United Nations press officer, he was born in Singapore and educated at Indiana University and The Sorbonne in Paris.

Edward P. Jones spoke with Eleanor Wachtel in 2005 about his Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, The Known World. Set in the heartland of 19th-century American slavery, Jones creates an entire world based on what he calls a historical footnote: that there were freed slaves who themselves became slave owners.

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www,dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www.dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www,dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www.dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www.dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www,dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www.dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www,dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www,dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www.dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Dolen Perkins-Valdez is the New York Times bestselling author of Wench, and Balm. She was a finalist for two NAACP Image Awards and the Hurston/Wright Legacy Award for fiction, and she was awarded the First Novelist Award by the Black Caucus of the American Library Association. She lives in Washington, DC with her family and teaches at American University. She discusses her latest novel Take My Hand, along with the importance of family, legacy, and history, particularly in regards to race.In 2017, HarperCollins released Wench as one of eight "Olive Titles," limited edition modern classics that included books by Edward P. Jones, Louise Erdrich, and Zora Neale Hurston.Dolen is the current Chair of the Board of the PEN/Faulkner Foundation. On behalf of the foundation, she has visited nearly every public high school in the District of Columbia to talk about the importance of reading and writing. She is currently Associate Professor in the Literature Department at American University and lives in Washington, DC with her family.· www,dolenperkinsvaldez.com · www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/113386/dolen-perkins-valdez/· www.penfaulkner.org· www.creativeprocess.info · www.oneplanetpodcast.org

This episode focuses exclusively on the work of fiction writer Edward P. Jones, Pulitzer Prize–winning author of The Known World and All Aunt Hagar's Children, and subject of the Art of Fiction no. 222. The episode opens with an excerpt from that interview, a conversation between Jones and Hilton Als. Then actor Amber Gray (Hadestown) reads Jones's story “Marie” from issue no. 122.   This episode was sound designed and mixed by Helena de Groot, and mastered by Justin Shturtz. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript: Hey pod lovers. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome! The Mastercast is a podcast recommendation show that consists of seven non-spoiler, binge-worthy reviews of the best podcasts in a short and sweet two- to three-minute summary on everything you could want to know, from the number of hosts to on average how long you can expect each episode to be. For more details and more reviews, I highly recommend checking out the first three episodes. We have some lengthy reviews which I'm sure you know by now means I was very excited about these podcasts, so let's get started. "Surprisingly Brilliant""Surprisingly Brilliant is about science history, covering the hidden stories and unsung heroes of some of the greatest accomplishments of science. For iHeartRadio and Seeker, passionate hosts and writers Maren Hunsberger and Greg Foot take turns telling each other the origins of fascinating scientific ideas from all disciplines of science in a way that is not only easy to understand but jaw-droppingly entertaining. You don't have to have a background in science or have had gotten top marks in school to enjoy the topics. The detail in each hour-long episode is made greater by an esteemed guest from the field who helps tell the story lost to history books. It's so nice to hear a show coming from people who genuinely love science and have a dynamic that makes them sound like they grew up friends. Apple Podcasts has an average of 4.5 stars, 365 ratings and 80 written reviews. The 2020 show has two seasons so far and a total of 30 episodes, and Hunsberger confirmed via Twitter the show's third season is in the works. When releasing, episodes usually come out on Fridays. The most popular episodes according to OwlTail are "The Puzzle Beneath Your Feet" and "The Electronic Ear." I LOVED the electronic ear episode also. As a huge fan of audio, I thought it was fascinating to hear about implants and the preferred terms and language associated with them. I think it's so important to make the medium of podcasting more accessible. Music is subtle and comes in and out at important parts of the story. The commercial amount is average. I can't express how much I've enjoyed the show. I can't wait for season three to come out. If you've been a fan of Hunsberger 's YouTube, Seeker or "Science in General," this podcast is a must-listen.Similar Pods: "Short Wave," "SideDoor," "99% Invisible" and "Ologies""No Strings Attached"It's April 5, 2015, and Vicky Cilliers, an army captain, loving wife and mother goes to jump out of an airplane like she has so many times before. The experienced freefall instructor has completed 2,600 jumps safely, but on this Easter Sunday her parachutes have been tampered with causing them to fail. Will she survive the 4,000-foot fall? What looks like an accident leads detectives to uncover a story of infidelity, debt and manipulation when Cilliers' picture-perfect life turns out to be not what it seems. From ITV News and hosted by Rob Murphy, "No Strings Attached, the 2020 podcast has 4.8 stars from Apple Podcast, 17 ratings and only 2 written reviews. The hidden gem is completed with eight episodes total that average about 32 minutes in length. Each contains interviews from those involved with the case as well as insight into how the British legal system differs from the American system. Extra video content can be found on their website. No commercials and minimal music. Trigger warnings for abuse and violence.Similar podcasts: "Conning the Con," "The Sure Thing" and "Culpable""I Spy""I Spy" offers an amazing inside peek into the world of espionage and intelligence agency operations. It's produced by Foreign Policy, the makers of the news magazine and website by the same name. Each half-hour well-produced episode is a first-person account of a specific event they were involved in, and the subject is something completely original. What other podcast has behind-the-scenes access to secret missions? It's hosted by Margo Martindale who plays a very minimal role, doing only the intro and outro. The interview questions seem to be edited out, resulting in the guest telling a seamless, detailed story much like what's heard in "This is Actually Happening." The tales come not only from American agents but spies from other intelligence programs. No matter how you feel about some of the things done by different governments, it's neat to see how the inside functions. It's suspenseful but not true crime. The show will have you sitting in your car to finish an episode and frustrated anytime someone interrupts you. Gripping and binge-worthy, the stories cover a wide range of perspectives, such as politics and history, while being real-life action thrillers. So far there are 22 episodes from three seasons and no word if we can expect a fourth. Apple Podcasts has 4.7 out of 5 stars, 2,443 ratings and 216 written reviews. My favorite episodes have been "The Sleeper Agent" and "The Counterspy." OwlTail's most popular listed episodes are "The Man With the Antidote" and "The Narc part 1." There is music that I didn't find bothersome, but some do. Trigger warnings for violence.Similar pods: "American Jihadi," "Wind of Change" and "Spy Affair""LeVar Burton Reads"As a kid, I was a loyal "Reading Rainbow" fan. I never missed it, and now I can continue curling up to enjoy more of LeVar Burton in "LeVar Burton Reads," done with Stitcher. The show has 4.9 out of 5 stars for a reason. Every Tuesday, solo host Burton (with the help of his team, whom he never fails to credit) reads one of his favorite fictional short stories from a diverse selection of contemporary and classic writers. I've found so many more authors of color from this pod than I would have on my own. The support and inclusiveness is a goal to emulate. Production is excellent across the board with voice and soundscaping expertly done. Equal parts soothing and familiar, Burton's talented reading is another great staple of the show. It's perfect for every character regardless of which emotion is being conveyed, and the selection of stories always challenges listeners to think critically. Just a warning for those who are looking for happy ever after endings: The stories read usually spotlight science fiction, speculative fiction and fantasy, which sometimes results in suspenseful, unresolved conclusions. Despite this, one similarity between the tales is that they are all brilliant. So much so that I listen to them twice: once as I go to sleep and then again the next morning to hear what I missed. They're too good to be only for sleep. Beware of episode notes about content, which he reminds listeners of every episode. There is swearing, and once I heard a slur, but again it's all in the show notes and a part of the read story. At the end of every story, Burton gives his own opinions about the reading in a short debriefing that wraps everything up nicely. 146 episodes so far, all about 45 minutes on average with new episodes coming out weekly on Tuesdays. My favorite episodes have been "'Dark Spaces on the Map' by Anjali Sachdeva" and "'Jump' by Cadwell Turnbull." OwlTail's most popular are listed as "LIVE! in DC: 'A Dark Night' by Edward P. Jones" and "'Multo' by Samuel Marzioli." The commercial amount is average but never wakes me up. This pod is for anyone who considers themself a lover of books or fantastic narration.Similar Pods: "Fictional," "Book Cheat" and "Phoebe Reads A Mystery""Convicted: Across Borders"This 2021, five-part series is about some of the 3,000 Americans that are imprisoned abroad every year. "Convicted: Across Borders" is all about showing how a person doing what they think is living a normal life can cause them to be imprisoned by a legal system they know nothing about in a language they don't speak and with no one to help them, all of this while being told they'll never be able to leave. It's very similar to "Locked Up Abroad;" however, it features more wrongfully convicted stories. Produced by L.A. Times Studios and Treefort Media, it is funded by Focus Features and was made to accompany their new Tom McCarthy-Matt Damon film, "Stillwater," the same production Amanda Knox spoke out about as fictionalizing her murder trial in Italy. A few promos for the movie play throughout the series but aren't any longer or more bothersome than regular commercials.It's hosted by famed lawyer and bestselling author Marcia Clark who was the lead prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson murder trial. I don't recommend Clark's previous pod "The First 48," but as mentioned, this one is well done. A big part of that comes from how the stories are told in the first person from the men and women who lived through these nightmares. Additional guests are sometimes family, international affairs specialists or lawyers who helped with the case. The stories of suffering and heartbreak from everyone involved are upsetting but also inspiring. It has 4.9 stars, 86 ratings and eight written reviews on Apple Podcasts. Episodes were 33 minutes long on average. The show doesn't have the twenty episodes required for OwlTail to do the most popular calculations, but my favorites were "Nightmare in Nicaragua" and "Villian of Venezuela." Music wasn't disruptive and the show had an average amount of commercials. Trigger warnings for wrongful conviction and hopelessness.Similar Pods: "The World Beneath," "Kremlin File" and "Heist with Michael Caine""The Offensive""The Offensive," an award-winning show by Stak, is a mockumentary sports podcast that follows the fictitious premiere football club Ashwood City through the eyes of the CEO, sports director and director of communication with some help from a narrator. The show is absolutely hilarious but not for kids. I wasn't sure how a mockumentary would go on just audio because so much of my favorite shows depend heavily on visual cues, but I can confirm this pod nails it. It's what I put on when I'm having a really bad day. I actually tried not to binge it too quickly because I didn't want to run out of episodes, and that's the first time I've ever done that for any podcast. I kept thinking the show would fall off, but with 121 episodes and new episodes coming out every Monday, it doesn't look like the comedy is waning anytime soon. One of the best parts about the show is that if you're a fan of football, this show is accurate, but if you aren't, you're in luck as well because the rapid-fire snark is mostly about the relationships between the main characters that anyone can enjoy. There's so much backstabbing, scheming and stupidity that it's very much a combination of “The Thick of It” and “The League.” Writers of the show credit weekly happenings in real-life football as inspiration for some of the crazier calamities in the pod. The show has 4.8 out of 5 stars, 553 ratings and eight written reviews. As of August 2021, the show had reached over a million downloads, making it one of the most popular fiction comedy podcasts available. The content is exceptional, and the voice talent is as well with over 80 actors having parts throughout the show. Sometimes they're even recording in the same room. The show has a pretty creative Twitter account that is managed in-character with live tweets from “games” being made. Fans of the podcast respond in kind by tweeting back abuse. There's also a very well-done merch store with home and away shirts as well as mugs, hats, pop sockets and a few other items. Personally, I'm waiting on the scarf. Commercials start off really rare and then increase to average over time. The music is on-theme and usually comes after a cold open. I will mention that along with profanity there, is a fire alarm that sounds in one of the earlier episodes. I don't think it's excessive, but it could be a trigger warning.Similar Pods: "A Very Fatal Murder," "Dead Authors Podcast" and "Hello from the Magic Tavern.""Word of the Day"The "Word of the Day" podcast by Merriam-Webster is the audio version of their Word of the Day email newsletter, written to educate listeners on a fresh word every day. It covers the word's etymology and other fun facts about it. I really enjoy queuing a few at the beginning of my day's feed. All of the context for the words makes them really easy to remember. Even if I know the word, I can still learn something new about it. It might be one of the most useful podcasts I follow. Hosted by Peter Sokolowski, the show is 4.4 out of 5 and 952 ratings. Apple Podcasts only seems to have the latest 10 episodes, but through art19.com I was able to find every episode back to the show's air date on October 24, 2006. Since then the show has posted a word of the day every single day including holidays for 5,389 three-minute-long episodes total. The pod had some technical issues in the distant past but has since cleared them up including download issues, mistitled episodes and uneven volume for intro and ads. The pod is 15 years old, so some growing pains are expected. Ads seem to be the chief complaint among listeners, but I think they're fine, especially if you only listen to one or two a day.Similar Pods: "Spectacular Vernacular," "The Allusionist" and "A Way with Words."Remember to share the show with the pod lovers in your life and tune in next month for the best of September. If you would like your music to be a feature on the show or a podcast to be recommended, send us an email at thmastercastpodlist@gmail.com. Marie Tanksley, KCSU's podcast director can be reached at podcast@kcsufm.com. Sources:https://www.apple.com/apple-podcasts/https://www.owltail.com/https://www.podchaser.com/Art19.comhttps://stak.london/shows/the-offensive/https://podbiblemag.com/the-offensive-podcast/ ★ Support this podcast ★

In 2020, Dawn Davis, took the reins as editor-in-chief of Bon Appétit along with Condé Nast's other food brands including Epicurious, Healthyish, and Basically, across digital, video, OTT, social and print platforms. In doing so, she made history as the first woman of color to hold this position. Acknowledged as "a book world star" by the New York Times in their coverage of the appointment, Dawn's editorial vision is directing a new chapter at the 65-year-old publication. Each year in October, Bon Appétit celebrates the "Hot Ten", a list of America's Best New Restaurants in its Restaurant Issue. This year, under Dawn's guidance, the Restaurant Issue was redefined and is reflective of the times. The issue honors "the restaurants, people and organizations that gave us hope with a brand-new awards list, Heads of the Table." The issue celebrates the resilience, variety of food, and the people who make them run, the ones that sprang up or pivoted during the pandemic to help their communities and others in the industry who needed it most, from giving opportunities to the formerly incarcerated to feeding neighbors. Dawn spent decades as an accomplished publisher and author, with a passion for food and culture. Her prolific publishing career at 37 Ink, a Simon & Schuster imprint, included bestselling and award-winning titles: Heads of the Colored People by Nafissa Thomas-Spires, winner of the 2019 Whiting Award; the National Book Award finalist, Never Caught: The Washingtons' Relentless Pursuit of Their Runaway Slave; Ona Judge by Erica Armstrong Dunbar; and several New York Times bestsellers , including Tough Love: My Story of the Things Worth Fighting For by Susan Rice; The Butler: A Witness to History by Wil Haygood, later becoming a major motion picture directed by Lee Daniels; The Misadventures of Awkward Black Girl by Issa Rae that helped pave the way for her tv show, Insecure; and I Can't Make This Up by Kevin Hart. Her time at HarperCollins, overseeing the Amistad imprint, resulted in publishing numerous well-known, highly acclaimed authors, including Edward P. Jones, author of the Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, The Known World; Attica Locke, author of Black Water Rising; and Chris Gardner, author of The Pursuit of Happyness, that also became a major motion picture starring Will Smith. Her passion for food culture is exhibited in the first cookbook she acquired, Recipe of Memory: Five Generations of Mexican Cuisine by Mary Lau Valle and Victor M. Valle, and was nominated for two Julia Child Cookbook Awards and a James Beard Award. As an author, Dawn wrote If You Can Stand the Heat: Tales from Chefs and Restaurateurs profiling some of the most dynamic chefs of the times including Edna Lewis, Bobby Flay, Anthony Bourdain, Michael McCarthy, Patricia Williams and Linda Rodriguez. Listen in as Dawn and host, Brad Johnson, discuss some of the featured people, stories and recipes in the October issue of Bon Appétit: The Restaurant Issue, along with a variety of other topics including: Dawn's journey that led to publishing, some of her favorite Martha's Vineyard places to visit; reflections from time spent in Nigeria; the significance of a high-profile restaurant going meatless; expanding the dialogue around African American cuisine's contribution to American cuisine; her cookbook collection; and stories about the interesting chefs she included in the book she authored. Join us! *** Please follow @CornerTableTalk on Instagram and Facebook For more information on host Brad Johnson or to join our mailing list, please visit: https://postandbeamhospitality.com/ For questions or comments, please e.mail: info@postandbeamhospitality.com See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Overview of the influence of the Book of Job on American literary culture. Texts and authors mentioned in passing include King James Bible, Robert Alter's translation of Job, Harold Bloom, Carl Jung, Herman Melville's Moby-Dick, Nathaniel Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter, Edward P. Jones's The Known World, poet Emily Dickinson, Pulp Fiction, Hamlet, Casablanca

This is what we talk about when we talk about voice: Fern, Gwin and Jesenia are the heart of Carolyn Ferrell's acclaimed new novel, Dear Miss Metropolitan, and their voices are unforgettable. Their story is a story of trauma and grief and hope unlike any you've read before, though readers who love The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison and The Nickel Boys by Colson Whitehead won't want to miss this one. Carolyn joins us on the show to talk about her electrifying novel, the inspiration she draws from the work of Edward P. Jones, and more. Featured books: Dear Miss Metropolitan by Carolyn Ferrell, the short stories of Edward P. Jones, Friday Black by Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah, and Ill Will by Dan Chaon. Produced/hosted by Miwa Messer and engineered by Harry Liang. Follow us here for new episodes every Tuesday and Thursday.

In 1992, Edward P. Jones published what might very well be his best work of fiction: Lost in the City, a short story collection that deals with (mostly) black characters in Washington, D.C., set between the 1950s and 1990s. Primarily working through understatement, an amalgamation of poetic and prosaic style, and competing POVs, many of these characters could have been of any race, dealing with his characteristically “mature” drama in any time period. How does Edward P. Jones achieve these effects? Does he effectively move between the criminal and the working class, the religious and the disconnected, or does he have a preferred turf? What structural choices does Lost in the City make? Finally, how does Edward P. Jones use race – and why is it better, more credible, and deeper than the ways race gets misused by modern authors? Alex Sheremet and Keith Jackewicz discuss these and other questions. You may also watch this discussion on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihC2Fj6Vnw8 Timestamps: 0:24 – “I said, ‘I don't need this anymore…'” 0:43 – introducing Edward P. Jones, Lost in the City, subjective/objective responses, the role of understatement 12:56 – Story 1 – The Girl Who Raised Pigeons – a father's projection, encroaching danger, unexpected character arcs, stipulated meaninglessness 46:08 – Story 2 – The First Day – extremely compact writing, dueling child/adult POVs, growth of the narrator 01:06:54 – Story 3 – The Night Rhonda Ferguson Was Killed – the fame lottery vs. racial politics, an ending that belies the children's own sense of ‘adulthood' 01:28:04 – Story 4 – Young Lions – good, gradual characterization with an overlong middle; Keith on Caesar vs. community access 01:48:37 – Story 5 – The Store – Edward P. Jones's best story? overturning stereotypes + archetypes, how to turn the prosaic poetic, character maturation 02:22:52 – Story 6 – An Orange Line Train To Ballston – a tight, realistic character sketch 02:28:19 – Story 7 – The Sunday Following Mother's Day – surprising character arcs; Edward P. Jones playing off of competing + changing reader empathies 02:44:16 – Story 7 – Lost in the City – finding new territory in the “drugged-out haze” narrative 02:51:00 – Story 9 – His Mother's House – Edward P. Jones goes Quentin Tarantino, and that's no compliment 02:59:40 – Story 10 – A Butterfly on F Street – character sketch + unexpected trope inversions 03:01:54 – Story 11 – Gospel – gossip, religion, hypocrisy 03:07:35 – Story 12 – A New Man – one of the more mysterious, almost metaphysical stories from Edward P. Jones 03:20:00 – Story 13 – A Dark Night – another quick character sketch 03:27:14 – Story 14 – Marie – the POV of both a limited & powerful character, with a great, multi-faceted ending Read the latest from the automachination universe: https://automachination.com Read Alex's (archived) essays: https://alexsheremet.com Dan Schneider's review of Lost in The City: http://www.cosmoetica.com/B235-DES175.htm

In this episode, Bon Appétit Editor-in-Chief Dawn Davis reads “Sonnet 171” by Edna St. Vincent Millay. Davis joined Bon Appétit in November 2020 following a long career in book publishing. Through her visionary work at Simon & Schuster and HarperCollins, Davis oversaw the publication of numerous influential best sellers — from “The Pursuit of Happyness” by Chris Gardner to “The Known World” by Edward P. Jones.  Edna St. Vincent Millay was an American poet born in 1892. She became wildly popular during her lifetime — known for her passionate readings and bold social views — and achieved a special mastery over the sonnet.   “Sonnet 171” by Edna St. Vincent Millay appears in the volume Collected Poems, published by Harper Perennial Modern Classics.  Keep up with Dawn Davis on Instagram, and at bonappetit.com.  In honor of Mother’s Day, Bon Appétit asked best-selling author and poet Kwame Alexander to call upon a dozen fellow writers for a verse on how their lives — and their cooking — now mirror their mothers'. Alexander then assembled lines from each poet into one crowdsourced community poem, featuring the voices of Lorna Goodison, Erika Sánchez, Van G. Garrett, Georgia Heard, Reuben Jackson, Deanna Nikaido and many more. Click here to read “The Ceremony of Giving.” We feature one short listener poem at the end of every episode. To submit, call the Haiku Hotline at 612-440-0643 and read your poem after the beep. For the occasional prompt, follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Subscribe on RadioPublic, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Stitcher. https://radiopublic.com/interesting-people-reading-poetry-60aNDL/s1!ec045#t=1

Where to find the guests:  Akili Nzuri is @ablackmanreading on Instagram and he also has a linktree https://linktr.ee/ablackmanreading  Reggie is @reggiereads on Instagram and he has a linktree https://linktr.ee/reggiereads  Both can be found at @booksarepopculture on Instagram  Books mentioned:  The Street by Ann Petry, Cane by Jane Toomer, Song of Solomon by Toni Morrison, The Known World by Edward P. Jones, Afropessimism by Frank B. Wilderson III, Assata by Assata Shakur, Black Boy by Richard Wright, Open Water by Caleb Azumah Nelson, There Will Be No Miracles Here by Casey Gerald, The Salt Eaters by Toni Cade Bambara, Gorilla My Love by Toni Cade Bambara, Faces at the Bottom of the Well by Derrick A. Bell --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

S. Kirk Walsh is a writer living in Austin, Texas. Her work has been widely published in The New York Times Book Review, Longreads, StoryQuarterly, and Electric Literature, among other publications. Over the years, she has been a resident at Ucross, Yaddo, Ragdale, and Virginia Center for the Creative Arts. Walsh is the founder of Austin Bat Cave, a writing and tutoring center that provides free writing workshops for young writers throughout Austin. The Elephant of Belfast is her first novel. Without These Books is a thank-you-inspired Video/Podcast. Each episode celebrates authors, books, and characters that changed us as writers, readers, and as people. Listen on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you podcast. Watch on our YouTube channel or at withoutbooks.org.Without Books®, a division of Heritage Future, is an author-centric book initiative. Our resources support authors. We also provide access to millions of books.S. Kirk Walsh selected Lost in the City by Edward P. Jones for her episode of Without These Books.

Happy New Year Glocal Citizens! We're starting 2021 on a "write" note. This week my guest is Sala Elise Patterson, a communication, content and brand strategist, and writer. Sala began her career as an editor at Conde Nast Traveler Magazine in New York before leaving to work in international cooperation in the wake of 9-11. That work took her to Rome and Dar es Salaam with the United Nations; to Paris with the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development; and to Tunis with the African Development Bank. In 2012, she founded her own communication advisory firm, Songhai Group, which serves international organizations, cultural institutions and mission-driven companies. Clients have included World Bank, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, McKinsey & Company, World Health Organization (WHO), United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), International Centre for the Study of the Preservation and Restoration of Cultural Property (ICCROM), Galerie Number 8 and National Urban League, among others. Throughout her career, Sala has written on art, culture and lifestyle. Her writing has appeared in The New York Times Style Magazine, Harvard Design Magazine, The Atlantic’s CityLab, KINFOLK, Ford Foundation Report, TRUE Africa, the Musée D’Orsay exhibition catalogue for The Black Model: From Géricault to Matisse and in the short, experimental documentary film, Protect, for which she was the screenwriter. Sala is a native Washingtonian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crestwood_(Washington,_D.C.)) and product of DC Public Schools. She holds a BA in African-American Literature from Columbia University (cum laude), an MSc in Development Studies from the School of Oriental and African Studies and speaks Italian, French, Portuguese and a bit of Japanese. She lives with her husband and 12-year old son in Rome, where she is currently on assignment with the World Bank. Where to find Sala? www.salapatterson.com (https://www.salapatterson.com) On LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/salaelisepatterson) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/salaelise/) What’s Sala reading and writing? •The Sun Magazine (https://www.thesunmagazine.org) •Rita Dove (http://people.virginia.edu/~rfd4b/) •James Baldwin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Baldwin) •Toni Morrison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Morrison) •Lost in the City (https://smile.amazon.com/Lost-City-20th-anniversary-Stories/dp/006219321X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1609655039&sr=8-1) by Edward P. Jones •Siddharta Mitter (https://siddharthamitter.com) • On Teju Cole (https://www.gsd.harvard.edu/2019/05/teju-cole-on-the-unpredictability-and-potential-of-the-city-once-you-give-up-insisting-on-stereotypes-you-can-really-start-to-see/) • On Adrienne "Ady" Fidelin (https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/25/style/tmagazine/25tmodel.html) What’s Sala listening to? FIP Radio (https://www.fip.fr) Other topics of interest- • Ady in Works (https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5d7988949b773671860c989b/t/5ef4eafb38c5a1444fe2beef/1593109250462/DOrsay+FINAL+with+cover.pdf) • Man Ray (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Ray) • Niama Safia Sandy (https://www.instagram.com/___niama___/?hl=en) • School of African and Oriental Studies University (https://www.soas.ac.uk/) Special Guest: Sala Elise Patterson .

Books Lost in the City by Edward P. Jones Worldcat Dark Archives: A Librarian's Investigation into the Science and History of Books Bound in Human Skin by Megan Rosenbloom Worldcat Weird Women: Classic Supernatural Fiction by Groundbreaking Female Writers, 1852-1923 Edited by Leslie S. Klinger and Lisa Morton Worldcat The Long Ships by Frans G. Bengtsson, Michael Chabon (Introduction), Michael Meyer (Translator). Worldcat Hench by Natalie Zina Walschots Worldcat Resources: Cumulative List of Featured Books Weird Women - Blog

A.O. Scott talks about Jones’s work and the American experience, and Eric Jay Dolin discusses “A Furious Sky.”

This month we read two stories by Pulitzer Prize-winning author Edward P. Jones: "An Orange Line Train to Ballston" and "Gospel". Both share some common themes, and in this podcast episode we talk about how those themes reveal truth about the human experience, particularly truth about the human experience in Southeast DC. Jones is writing about his hometown and the people who call it home along with him; and for many readers, it may be a view of the city and its people they have never witnessed or acknowledged.

This week we're talking to Kyle McCarthy, author of EVERYONE KNOWS HOW MUCH I LOVE YOU! Find out more at https://www.kylermccarthy.com. Thank you to all of our amazing listeners, including our Patrons over at https://Patreon.com/BeyondTheTrope. Get exclusive Beyond The Trope gear at https://BeyondTheTrope.redbubble.com. Mentioned in this episode: Iowa Writers' Workshop Hilary Mantel Edward P. Jones Theodore W. Adorno  

Before becoming the co-host of Pod Save America, Dan Pfeiffer spent most of his adult life in Democratic Party politics, which included serving as White House communications director for President Barack Obama. But in his new book Un-Trumping America, the former operative levels some sharp criticism toward the party he came of political age in.  Contrary to the rhetoric of the leading Democratic presidential candidate, Pfeiffer doesn’t think of Donald Trump as the source of our current social and political ills, and he doesn’t believe that beating Trump will bring about a return to “normalcy.” For Pfeiffer, Trump is a symptom of much deeper forces in our politics — forces that will continue to proliferate unless Democrats get serious about, among other things, genuine structural reform. Among the things we discuss:  - Pfeiffer’s view that Donald Trump is the favorite in 2020 - Why the core divide in the Democratic Party isn’t progressive vs. moderate - The flaws in both Sanders and Biden’s theories of institutional change  - The way Obama looms over the Democratic primary — perhaps even more than Trump does  - The case for, and against, filibuster reform - Pfeiffer’s biggest regret from inside the Obama administration - What working with Joe Biden is like - Why the Obama White House didn’t rally around Biden in 2016 - The damage the political consultant class does to Democrats - What the left got wrong about the Democratic Party - Why Democrats need to prioritize democracy itself References: Ezra's profile of Joe Biden Book recommendations: Nixonland by Rick Perlstein The Known World by Edward P. Jones No Ordinary Time by Doris Kearns Goodwin New to the show? Want to check out Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere) The “Why We’re Polarized” tour continues, with events in Austin, Nashville, Chicago, and Greenville. Go to WhyWerePolarized.com for the full schedule! Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.com Credits: Engineer - Cynthia Gil Producer/Editor - Jeff Geld Researcher - Roge Karma Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Two weeks ago, the #MTYRetreat took place at Nizuc Resort and Spa in Cancun, Mexico. To say it was transformative...would be an understatement. I’ve enlisted @SwirlSuite Podcast co-host and producer Sarita Cheaves (@vinemeup) to help me unpack the magic behind CURLBOX founder Myleik Teele’s second annual retreat. 1:40 - In this episode, we’re going deep on our experiences at #MTYRetreat, the second annual retreat hosted by CURLBOX founder and CEO Myleik Teele. Myleik offers unfiltered advice on everything from business to parenthood on her “Myleik Teele’s podcast” platform. 2:42 - The #MTYRetreat was designed as “a curated getaway inspired by next-level luxury and the cultural experiences of Myleik.” The goal was the restore, transform and edify attendees. The MTYRetreat consisted of a 4-day, 3-night experience at Nizuc Resort and Spa, a  AAA 5 Diamond Award-winning resort, complete with masterclass workshops, fireside chats/ cocktails and conversations, and so much dancing. 3:18 - Sarita was a first-time MTYRetreat attendee, and I was coming back for second year. In this episode we’re sharing our favorite takeaways and moments from the retreat. We have so much gratitude for the CURLBOX team, Myleik, Karleen Roy and The Vanity Group for making magic. 5:40 - Sarita introduction: Sarita is a wine writer and producer of "Swirl Suite,” a podcast that's all about wine, liquor, spirits, beer, and life. 6:30 - Who is Myleik? Founder and CEO of CURLBOX, Myleik’s receipts print THEMSELVES! She’s an entrepreneur and PR extraordinare and she’s so intensely devoted to black women gathering our resources, talents, and ambitions. 8:15 - How Sarita discovered Myleik: via Side Hustle Pro podcast! Sarita heard Myleik on an episode, and immediately had to acquaint herself with Myleik’s work. Sarita says Myleik’s words are incredible: “Her words of encouragement are extremely firm and clear. There’s no fluff. I love everything about it.” 9:20 - Myleik wanted to teach us what she didn’t know. So, she hosted #MTYRetreat with support from her multi-hyphenate baddie brigade: Bestselling author Luvvie Ajayi, ministry leader Sarah Jakes Roberts, Blavity founder Morgan DeBaun, creator of Karma Bliss and author of “Crystal Bliss” Devi Brown, “Insecure” star Yvonne Orji, style and fashion journalist extraordinaire Kahlana Barfield-Brown, and founder of XONecole Necole Kane. 10:00 - Sarita describes her first moments at MTYRetreat, from the flight touching down at the airport to pulling up at the Nizuc Resort and Spa lobby: “We touched down and I walked into the lobby. The scene from the lobby, where you can spot the water, left me breathless. I stood there for a moment and took it in, like, “Wow I don’t know what I’m in for, but my life is about to change.” 11:30 - The first night of the retreat was a fun dinner-cocktail party, complete with a gorgeously set, long dining table. There was such ease in the room as attendees mingled. Brionna says, “I kept feeling like everyone was putting in the same energy. Everyone wanted to be there. 12:07 - Sarita on arriving at the #MTYRetreat late, and how her roommate helped her ease into the experience, and the incredible wall of personalized menus! 14:30 - On Saturday, we began with a Saturday Sunrise Service and a morning word by Sarah Jakes Roberts, a ministry leader and best-selling author. Jakes-Roberts lead a Sunrise Service, where all were welcome to participate, dress in white, walk to the edge of the ocean on the beach, and share a spiritual yet grounding moment. 15:30 - Sarita and Brionna describe the beauty of watching the sunrise surrounded by dozens of black women, all wearing white. 16:30 - Sailing on “The Retreat by Myleik” catamaran! 17:30 - The elation of enjoying poolside champagne with wine writer/ expert and consultant Julia Coney!!   18:00 - There was a huge breadth of experiences and people present at the retreat. Not everyone needed to have a “side hustle” or have something “going on.” So much of the programming was directed toward pouring back into everyone who attended MTYRetreat. Seeing connections made in real-time, and watching the “accelerated collisions” was incredible. The moments of clarity and connection will keep reverberating. Nothing “ends” at the MTYRetreat--it’s where everything takes off. 20:00 - Sarita on connecting with #MTYRetreat attendees: “It felt nice to connect souls with people.” 20:35 - Sunday’s #MTYRetreat Masterclass series! To kick it off, Myleik invited at least a half dozen of the most interesting, multifaceted people in her world to offer insights. The first to masterclass speaker was Devi Brown, founder of lifestyle and wellness company Karma Bliss, and author of “Crystal Bliss.” Devi was so efervescent yet stabilizing. Her discussion on purpose:”Purpose is using your unique gifts, unique abilities to be of service to others.” 22:00 - Devi’s meditation according to Sarita: “We had to close our eyes, and respond to ourselves. She kept saying, “Who are you?” Not mom or wife--that’s who you are to others---who are YOU? Outside of a professional career or titles, who ARE you?! Devi also said, “You’re only you to yourself.” THINK ON THAT! 22:30 - Morgan DeBaun, founder of Blavity, offered a workshop about working smart. Why Sarita loved Morgan: “She took the emotion out of setting goals." 23:40 - Sarita on Morgan’s recommendation/ homework--separating CEO tasks from operating tasks. 24:45 - Yvonne Orji shut it DOWN with her energy, her story, and her vulnerability. 25:20 - Sarita discusses Yvonne’s story of success: “What resonate with me was that she (Yvonne) said she auditioned for “Insecure” for five times, because one person she was competing with was doing great, but they plateaued in the audition. However, as Yvonne kept coming back, she kept taking notes and getting better and better. The team said, ‘If she’s getting better just from notes, just imagine how great she’ll be with producers and a director.” WOW! 26:15 - Brionna’s favorite Yvonne quote: “I hate regret more than I hate fear.” 27:00 - How the level of courtesy at Nizuc Resort and Spa impacted us 28:50 - Much love to DJ and author Olivia Dope for keeping us dancing! 29:15 - Sarita’s MTYRetreat action item: Identifying CEO and operational tasks, a la Morgan deBaun. 30:40 - Brionna’s MTYRetreat action item: Be a good human, a la Yvonne Orji. Being considerate, compassionate and courteous are skills. Yes, you can be FAIR and NICE at the same time. Devi’s quote, “The lessons repeat as needed” HIT ME HARD! 32:15 - SO MUCH LOVE to Ms. Diana on the CURLBOX team, for being such a rockstar. Periodt. 33:05 - Final thoughts: MTYRetreat was worth it 100%! We’re still reaping the benefits, and will do so going forward. Sarita’s expectations were exceeded. She says, “I don’t know what I needed when I got there, but I certainly received it when I left.” 33:45 - Brionna’s #bribooks is from Sarita! “Lost in the City", a book of short stories about DC, by Edward P. Jones.

A stormy evening leads to a dark night of the soul. Recorded live at the Lincoln Theatre in Washington, D.C. with musical accompaniment by Élise Cuffy. "A Dark Night" appears in Edward P. Jones' collection LOST IN THE CITY.

Hey, we're back folks! After a long absence from your podcast players Max and Will are here to discuss one of Max's favorite movies, Hellboy II: The Golden Army. It's got all the ingredients of a beloved fantasy adventure: elves, trolls, tooth-eating demons, and Seth MacFarlane! Seriously, this movie is good and you should really watch it. 2011 New Yorker article: Show the Monster: Guillermo del Toro’s quest to get amazing creatures onscreen. Recommendations Pan's Labyrinth The Known World by Edward P. Jones

Discussion Notes: A Rich Man Find this week’s story here:  A Rich Man by Edward P. Jones Next week’s story:  The Five-Forty-Eight by John Cheever Rated: Explicit Gerald, Rammy, and Anais discuss “A Rich Man” by Edward P. Jones. Anais valiantly tries to convince Gerald and Rammy that there’s more to the story than meets... The post A Rich Man | Edward P Jones | Literary Roadhouse Ep 137 appeared first on Literary Roadhouse.

Discussion Notes: The Mark on the Wall Find this week’s story here:  The Mark on the Wall by Virginia Woolf Next week’s story:  A Rich Man by Edward P. Jones Rated: Clean Gerald, Rammy, and Anais discuss “The Mark on the Wall” by Virginia Woolf, and struggle to separate thesis from plot. Rammy’s need for... The post The Mark on the Wall | Virginia Woolf | Literary Roadhouse Ep 136 appeared first on Literary Roadhouse.

Ep. 3 of 5 on The Known World by Edward P. Jones

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In mid-February, seventeen students and adults were shot at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. In the aftermath, surviving students have led a powerful campaign for gun control. In episode 12, V.V. Ganeshananthan and Whitney Terrell bring you two authors—and a pile of books—that have covered the territory of school shootings, activism, and coming of age. First, Jim Shepard discusses his 2004 novel Project X, which is told from the POV of an eighth-grader who decides to commit a Columbine-style shooting. Shepard offers his thoughts on empathy, alienation, and how schools tend to treat their outcasts. Then Danielle Evans shares her read on the students activists in the #neveragain movement and the longstanding literary trope of child narrators who outwit adults. Adolescent anger and activism play out in Evans's story "Robert E. Lee is Dead," set in a high school in the south; she also points us to Edward P. Jones's story “The First Day” for a particularly poignant phrasing of the transition of adolescence. Readings: Project X by Jim Shepard (2004); "Robert E. Lee is Dead" by Danielle Evans, from the collection Before You Suffocate Your Own Fool Self (2011); "The First Day" by Edward P. Jones, from the collection Lost in the City (2004); The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison (1970). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We find out what Laura's book club made of The Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead and fess up to the fact that neither of us has ever read Beloved. In our interview we talk to Tom Milne, a teacher at Rosedale Primary School in South London about their school book club. And we finish with some great recommendations for your next book club read. • Get in touch with us at thebookclubreview@gmail.com, follow us on Instagram @thebookclubreviewpod or leave us a comment on iTunes, we'd love to hear from you. • You can find Rosendale school's book club website at: www.rosendalebookclub.com • Books mentioned in this episode: The Underground Railroad by Colson Whitehead, The Miniaturist by Jesse Burton, Beloved by Toni Morrison, The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein, The Tiger Who Came to Tea by Judith Kerr, The Sellout by Paul Beatty, On Golden Hill by Francis Spufford, Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates, The Hate You Give by Angie Thomas, Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil by John Berendt, The Known World by Edward P. Jones, The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison. • For our next book club we will be reading and discussing Lincoln in the Bardo by George Saunders. 

Brian Reed, a senior producer at This American Life, is the host of S-Town. “It’s a story about the remarkableness of what could be called an unremarkable life.” Thanks to MailChimp, Babbel, and Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. @brihreed Reed's This American Life archive [28:45] Cops See It Differently, Part One (This American Life • Feb 2015) [28:45] Wake Up Now (This American Life • Dec 2014) [44:30] Stoner (John Wiliams • Viking • 1965) [45:15] Photo of the S-Town planning room [46:00] The Known World: A Novel (Edward P. Jones • HarperCollins • 2003)

Brian Reed, a senior producer at This American Life, is the host of S-Town. “It’s a story about the remarkableness of what could be called an unremarkable life.” Thanks to MailChimp, Casper, and Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode. @brihreed Reed's This American Life archive [30:00] "Cops See It Differently" (This American Life • Feb 2015) [30:00] "Wake Up Now" (This American Life • Dec 2014) [45:45] Stoner (John Wiliams • Viking • 1965) [49:30] Photo of the S-Town planning room [47:15] The Known World: A Novel (Edward P. Jones • HarperCollins • 2003)

Edward P. Jones is a New York Times bestselling author and has been awarded the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction, the National Book Critics Circle award, the International IMPAC Dublin Literary Award, and the Lannan Literary Award for The Known World. His first novel The Known World is about the ownership of slaves by a black master in the antebellum South. Reviewers lauded Jones for the novel's epic grandeur, vernacular, and lyrical prose, fully realized characters, and lively dialogue. Comparing Jones favorably with William Faulkner and Toni Morrison. After winning the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction Jones told Publisher's Weekly : "I want to write about the things which helped us to survive: the love, grace, intelligence, and strength for us as a people." Jones also received a MacArthur Fellowship in 2004. His first collection of stories, Lost in the City, won the PEN/Hemingway Award and was short-listed for the National Book Award. The stories recapture the life Jones knew growing up in the 1950s and 1960s, especially the rich vernacular of his mother and her associates. "I remember black people's poetic language," His second story collection, All Aunt Hagar's Children, was a finalist for the Pen/Faulkner Award. He has been an instructor of fiction writing at a range of universities, including Princeton. He lives in Washington, D.C.                                                      2. From the Archives: Rhodessa Jones talks about her work: "SHE:The Rhodessa Jones Story," which opened at Brava in SF, March 28-April 7, 2013. Music: Sweet Honey in the Rock; Teri Simmons; Thao & the Get Down Stay Down; Ethnic Heritage Ensemble           

This is a black arts and culture site. We will be exploring the African Diaspora via the writing, performance, both musical and theatrical (film and stage), as well as the visual arts of Africans in the Diaspora and those influenced by these aesthetic forms of expression. I am interested in the political and social ramifications of art on society, specifically movements supported by these artists and their forebearers. It is my claim that the artists are the true revolutionaries, their work honest and filled with raw unedited passion. They are our true heroes. Ashay! 1. Director - NC Heikin began her career at La Mama Experimental Theatre Club in New York and went on to work on and off Broadway as an actress, singer, dancer, writer and director. Her most recent film, Sound of Redemption, The Frank Morgan Story (http://frankmorganstory.com/) about a troubled jazz musician, was produced by bestselling author Michael Connelly and premiered at the Los Angeles Film Festival in 2014 and theatrically in NY and LA in 2015. Her most recent film is Life Crime and tells the story of Reggie Austin and how music saved his life. www.NCHeikin.com  2. Mama Naomi Gede Diouf joins us to speak about The Forbidden Bush premiering this weekend, Nov. 26, 8 p.m. and Nov. 27, 3 p.m. at Laney College, the Odell Johnson Theatre, 900 Fallon Street. 3. Velina Brown joins us to talk about Word 4 Word and Z Space's production of Edward P. Jones's Aunt Hagar's Children. 4. Taiwo Kujichagulia-Seitu, Lyric Dance School, joins us to talk about the Jazzy Nutcracker featuring Duke Ellington's music, Dec. 10, 3-6 p.m. at EOYDC.

In this double-LP episode one spectacular, James and Laura discuss her latest novel, FIND ME, her unusual path to becoming a writer, why Florida wants to murder you, and why she's not smiling. Plus Emily Bell, senior editor at FSG, chats about her job and upcoming titles.    Laura and James mention:  THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER  Kurt Cobain  Courtney Love  riot grrrls  "In the Cemetery Where Al Jolson is Buried" by Amy Hempel  Lorrie Moore  Edward P. Jones  Charles Baxter Flannery O'Connor Alice Munro  Philip F. Deaver  Margot Livesey  REVENGE by Yoko Ogawa  SHIP FEVER by Andrea Barrett  L'AVVENTURA directed by Michelangelo Antonioni  THE PASSENGER directed by Michelangelo Antonioni FARGO directed by the Coen brothers  Robert Frost  EVERYDAY-GENIUS.COM LAST LAST CHANCE by Fiona Maazel  THE FLAME ALPHABET by Ben Marcus THE ORANGE EATS CREEPS by Grace Krilanovich THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS by Lewis Carroll  THE SOUTHERN REACH TRILOGY by Jeff VanderMeer THE GIRLS' GUIDE TO HUNTING AND FISHING by Melissa Bank Nayon Cho     Emily and James mention: THREATS by Amelia Gray AM/PM by Amelia Gray  Featherproof Books  Riverhead Books  Laura van den Berg  Margot Livesey  NOBODY IS EVER MISSING by Catherine Lacey  Sean McDonald PULPHEAD by John Jeremiah Sullivan  Frank Bill   Lindsay Hunter  THE QUICK AND THE DEAD by Joy Williams  PURITY by Jonathan Franzen  PULL ME UNDER by Kelly Luce  A Strange Object  THREE SCENARIOS IN WHICH HANA SASAKI GROWS A TAIL by Kelly Luce  HURT PEOPLE by Cote Smith ONE STORY    tkpod.com ___ tkwithjs@gmail.com ___  facebook.com/tkwithjs    

Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Edward P. Jones discusses the role of imagination in writing historical fiction and how truth transcends facts.

WordSmitten :: About the BooksKate Sullivan interviews Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, debut novelists, publishers, and editors. In this segment, Kate interviews Manhattan literary agent Harvey Klinger who talks about his relationships with acquisition editors, clients, and his former boss. He began his publishing career at Doubleday. Instead, he left and worked for a literary agent for eighteen months and began forming his first client list. A two-year stint followed in association with an independent publicist. Harvey created his own independent operation in October, 1977. Harvey Klinger received his M.A. in The Writing Seminars at Johns Hopkins University. Tune in to the fun. Recent guests include Johnny Temple (Brooklyn's Akashic Books noted for Go the F*** to Sleep), Tom Robbins (Tibetan Peach Pie), and Dani Shapiro (Still Writing). Pulitzer Prize winning authors Gilbert King (Devil in the Grove), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), Geraldine Brooks (March), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World) have appeared on the About the Books broadcast.The host and producer of the broadcast is Kate Sullivan, journalist, editor, publisher, and creative writing instructor with WordSmitten Media, Inc. in the seaside town of St. Petersburg, Florida.The WordSmitten broadcast (About the Books) airs Sunday afternoons at 5 PM Eastern from NYC and features recent interviews with bestselling authors, editors, and literary executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:About-the-Books.comWordSmittenMedia.comWordSmitten.com © 2014 WordSmitten Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.  WordSmitten® is a registered trademark of WordSmitten Media, Inc., a Florida Corporation.

WordSmitten :: About the BooksKate Sullivan interviews Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, debut novelists, publishers, and editors. In this segment, Kate interviews Manhattan literary agent Harvey Klinger who talks about his relationships with acquisition editors, clients, and his former boss. He began his publishing career at Doubleday. Instead, he left and worked for a literary agent for eighteen months and began forming his first client list. A two-year stint followed in association with an independent publicist. Harvey created his own independent operation in October, 1977. Harvey Klinger received his M.A. in The Writing Seminars at Johns Hopkins University. Tune in to the fun. Recent guests include Johnny Temple (Brooklyn's Akashic Books noted for Go the F*** to Sleep), Tom Robbins (Tibetan Peach Pie), and Dani Shapiro (Still Writing). Pulitzer Prize winning authors Gilbert King (Devil in the Grove), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), Geraldine Brooks (March), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World) have appeared on the About the Books broadcast.The host and producer of the broadcast is Kate Sullivan, journalist, editor, publisher, and creative writing instructor with WordSmitten Media, Inc. in the seaside town of St. Petersburg, Florida.The WordSmitten broadcast (About the Books) airs Sunday afternoons at 5 PM Eastern from NYC and features recent interviews with bestselling authors, editors, and literary executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:About-the-Books.comWordSmittenMedia.comWordSmitten.com © 2014 WordSmitten Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.  WordSmitten® is a registered trademark of WordSmitten Media, Inc., a Florida Corporation.

Tom Robbins, author of nine novels including "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" and "Jitterbug Perfume" appears on the About the Books broadcast to discuss his newest book, "Tibetan Peach Pie: A True Account of an Imaginative Life." Robbins, who taught a master class in creative writing at the WordSmitten Writing Conference, talks with Kate Sullivan about his life, his novels, and his around-the-world travels. Tune in to the fun and listen to this literary rock star discuss his creative life. Kate Sullivan interviews Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, debut novelists, publishers, and editors. The broadcast airs on Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST. Recent guests include Johnny Temple (Brooklyn's Akashic Books), Dani Shapiro (Still Writing), Pulitzer Prize winning authors Gilbert King (Devil in the Grove), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), Geraldine Brooks (March), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World). The host and producer of the WordSmitten About the Books broadcast is Kate Sullivan, jounalist, editor, publisher, and creative writing instructor with WordSmitten Media, Inc. in the seaside town of St. Petersburg, Florida.The WordSmitten broadcast ("About the Books") airs Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST from NYC and features recent interviews with bestselling authors, editors, and literary executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:About-the-Books.comWordSmittenMedia.comWordSmitten.com © 2014 WordSmitten Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.  WordSmitten® is a registered trademark of WordSmitten Media, Inc., a Florida Corporation.

Tom Robbins, author of nine novels including "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues" and "Jitterbug Perfume" appears on the About the Books broadcast to discuss his newest book, "Tibetan Peach Pie: A True Account of an Imaginative Life." Robbins, who taught a master class in creative writing at the WordSmitten Writing Conference, talks with Kate Sullivan about his life, his novels, and his around-the-world travels. Tune in to the fun and listen to this literary rock star discuss his creative life. Kate Sullivan interviews Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, debut novelists, publishers, and editors. The broadcast airs on Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST. Recent guests include Johnny Temple (Brooklyn's Akashic Books), Dani Shapiro (Still Writing), Pulitzer Prize winning authors Gilbert King (Devil in the Grove), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), Geraldine Brooks (March), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World). The host and producer of the WordSmitten About the Books broadcast is Kate Sullivan, jounalist, editor, publisher, and creative writing instructor with WordSmitten Media, Inc. in the seaside town of St. Petersburg, Florida.The WordSmitten broadcast ("About the Books") airs Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST from NYC and features recent interviews with bestselling authors, editors, and literary executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:About-the-Books.comWordSmittenMedia.comWordSmitten.com © 2014 WordSmitten Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.  WordSmitten® is a registered trademark of WordSmitten Media, Inc., a Florida Corporation.

Sep. 30, 2013. A day-long celebration reflecting DC's literary past, present, and future (second evening session). Speakers included Elizabeth Alexander, Edward P. Jones, E. Ethelbert Miller and George Pelecanos. For transcript, captions, and more information, visit http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=6264

In today's segment of About the Books, Kate Sullivan interviews author Tarashea Nesbit. Her new book, "The Wives of Los Alamos," is a debut novel that explores the hidden side of scientific and collateral damage that happened when the United States joined the nuclear arms race for dominance. The atomic age created disasters throughout the world. But the quiet disasters—the ones which affected families in Los Alamos—portrayed in this evocative new novel are remarkable.  Tune in to listen to interviews with Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, debut novelists, publishers, and editors. The broadcast airs on Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST. Recent guests include Johnny Temple (Brooklyn's Akashic Books noted for "Go the F*** to Sleep), Dani Shapiro (Still Writing), Pulitzer Prize winning authors Gilbert King (Devil in the Grove), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), Geraldine Brooks (March), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World). The host and producer of the WordSmitten About the Books broadcast is Kate Sullivan, jounalist, editor, publisher, and creative writing instructor with WordSmitten Media, Inc. in the seaside town of St. Petersburg, Florida.The WordSmitten broadcast ("About the Books") airs Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST from NYC and features recent interviews with bestselling authors, editors, and literary executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:About-the-Books.comWordSmittenMedia.comWordSmitten.com © 2014 WordSmitten Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.  WordSmitten® is a registered trademark of WordSmitten Media, Inc., a Florida Corporation.

In today's segment of About the Books, Kate Sullivan interviews author Tarashea Nesbit. Her new book, "The Wives of Los Alamos," is a debut novel that explores the hidden side of scientific and collateral damage that happened when the United States joined the nuclear arms race for dominance. The atomic age created disasters throughout the world. But the quiet disasters—the ones which affected families in Los Alamos—portrayed in this evocative new novel are remarkable.  Tune in to listen to interviews with Pulitzer Prize-winning authors, debut novelists, publishers, and editors. The broadcast airs on Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST. Recent guests include Johnny Temple (Brooklyn's Akashic Books noted for "Go the F*** to Sleep), Dani Shapiro (Still Writing), Pulitzer Prize winning authors Gilbert King (Devil in the Grove), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), Geraldine Brooks (March), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World). The host and producer of the WordSmitten About the Books broadcast is Kate Sullivan, jounalist, editor, publisher, and creative writing instructor with WordSmitten Media, Inc. in the seaside town of St. Petersburg, Florida.The WordSmitten broadcast ("About the Books") airs Sunday afternoons at 5 PM EST from NYC and features recent interviews with bestselling authors, editors, and literary executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:About-the-Books.comWordSmittenMedia.comWordSmitten.com © 2014 WordSmitten Media Inc. All Rights Reserved.  WordSmitten® is a registered trademark of WordSmitten Media, Inc., a Florida Corporation.

Kate Sullivan interviews author Deborah Johnson for a discussion about her book, The Secret of Magic. Launched this month by Amy Einhorn Books (Putnam/Penguin USA), Johnson's recent novel explores the era when Thurgood Marshall was "the lawyer" who created a platform of reason, courtesy, and the law to disrupt intolerance. Recent guests on the WordSmitten About the Books broadcast include Pulitzer Prize-winning authors Paul Harding (Tinkers), Jane Smiley (A Thousand Acres), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World). Celebrated authors appearing include Tom Robbins (Even Cowgirls Get the Blues and B is for Beer), Orange Prize-winner Madeline Miller, and the late actor Tony Curtis (American Prince). WordSmitten's host, Kate Sullivan, interviews notable authors, editors, literary agents, and publishing executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:www.About-the-Books.comwww.WordSmittenMedia.comwww.WordSmitten.comOffices in St. Petersburg, Florida :: 800-727-6214Also, visit us on LinkedIn, Plaxo, RedRoom.com, Facebook, Twitter, and all our other social media sites, including Google Plus One. For a list of our monthly writing workshops, visit www.Meetup.com/WordSmitten.(c) Copyright WordSmitten Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Kate Sullivan interviews author Deborah Johnson for a discussion about her book, The Secret of Magic. Launched this month by Amy Einhorn Books (Putnam/Penguin USA), Johnson's recent novel explores the era when Thurgood Marshall was "the lawyer" who created a platform of reason, courtesy, and the law to disrupt intolerance. Recent guests on the WordSmitten About the Books broadcast include Pulitzer Prize-winning authors Paul Harding (Tinkers), Jane Smiley (A Thousand Acres), Elizabeth Strout (Olive Kitteridge), and Edward P. Jones (The Known World). Celebrated authors appearing include Tom Robbins (Even Cowgirls Get the Blues and B is for Beer), Orange Prize-winner Madeline Miller, and the late actor Tony Curtis (American Prince). WordSmitten's host, Kate Sullivan, interviews notable authors, editors, literary agents, and publishing executives.Visit our company's distinctive sites:www.About-the-Books.comwww.WordSmittenMedia.comwww.WordSmitten.comOffices in St. Petersburg, Florida :: 800-727-6214Also, visit us on LinkedIn, Plaxo, RedRoom.com, Facebook, Twitter, and all our other social media sites, including Google Plus One. For a list of our monthly writing workshops, visit www.Meetup.com/WordSmitten.(c) Copyright WordSmitten Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

This event highlights distinguished literary writers and writing from the South, hosted by Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry (and Mississippi Poet Laureate) Natasha Trethewey. Readers included Madison Smart Bell, Edward P. Jones, Jill McCorkle, Ron Rash and Charles Wright. For captions, transcript, and more information visit http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=5908

FRATERNITY: The inspiring true story of a group of young men whose lives were changed by a visionary mentor. On April 4, 1968, the death of Martin Luther King, Jr., shocked the nation. Later that month, the Reverend John Brooks, a professor of theology at the College of the Holy Cross who shared Dr. King’s dream of an integrated society, drove up and down the East Coast searching for African American high school students to recruit to the school, young men he felt had the potential to succeed if given an opportunity. Among the twenty students he had a hand in recruiting that year were Clarence Thomas, the future Supreme Court justice; Edward P. Jones, who would go on to win a Pulitzer Prize for literature; and Theodore Wells, who would become one of the nation’s most successful defense attorneys. Many of the others went on to become stars in their fields as well. Diane Bradyis a senior editor and columnist at Bloomberg Businessweek, where she covers corporate strategies, profiles, and global business issues. She has won several national and international awards for her coverage. Along with regular broadcast appearances, she speaks on business trends and interviews newsmakers worldwide. She’s also taken a leadership role in cross-platform initiatives and editorial events. Diane previously worked at the Wall Street Journal in Hong Kong and Manila, Maclean’s magazine in Toronto, and the United Nations Environment Programme in Nairobi. She is on the board of the Overseas Press Club, and holds a B.A. from the University of Toronto, as well as graduate degrees from the University of Nairobi and Columbia University

The College of Charleston selected "The Known World" by Edward P. Jones as its 2011 The College Reads! book selection. Jones was on campus for a public reading week and book talk on November 1, 2011. He remained on campus on November 2 to engage with students, faculty and staff. Set in antebellum Virginia, 20 years before the Civil War began, Jones's debut novel examines issues regarding the ownership of black slaves by free black people as well as by whites. Caldonia Townsend is an educated black slaveowner, the widow of a well-loved young farmer named Henry, whose parents had bought their own freedom, and then freed their son, only to watch him buy himself a slave as soon as he had saved enough money. After his death, his slaves wonder if Caldonia will free them. When she fails to do so, but instead breaches the code that keeps them separate from her, a little piece of Manchester County begins to unravel. Published in 2003, The Known World won a National Book Critics Circle Award and the Pulitzer for Fiction in 2004. In 2005, it won the International IMPACT Dublin Literary Award. "The College Reads! Committee selected this book for a variety of reasons," said Provost George Hynd. "Although this is a work of fiction, the book deals with race in complex ways and will challenge students to confront pre-existing ideas about race, slavery, and human relationships at a time when they also have opportunities to revisit the foundations of the Civil War through events marking the sesquicentennial in 2011." All incoming first-year students received the book when they were on campus for summer orientation. The book was widely available for continuing students through the library, Liberty cafeteria, and other browsing locations. A pilot project also allowed students to read the ebook by checking out a Kindle from the Library. The College Reads! is the College of Charleston's common reading program. Each year, The College Reads! engages and connects thousands of students, faculty and staff around a single book to promote the idea that liberally educated people read broadly and discuss with one another ideas arising from the books they share. In 2010, The College Reads! collaborated with the Honors College in founding the Literacy Outreach Initiative. Two-hundred College of Charleston students worked with nearly 4,000 Charleston County children over a seven-week period using a curriculum designed to promote literacy and model a love of reading.

All Aunt Hagar's Children (Amistad) Edward P. Jones' magnificent new book of stories takes up characters from his earlier collection, Lost in the City. Minor, background characters become central; children unlearn the lessons of their parents; time somersaults; and legends become truth...

Rita Dove, Edward P. Jones, Alice Walker and Jayne Cortez Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Rita Dove reads her thrilling poem "Hattie McDaniel Arrives at the Coconut Grove" and discusses black identity and American culture. Pulitzer Prize-winning novelist Edward P. Jones talks about the history of slavery; Pulitzer Prize and American Book Award-winner Alice Walker explains that writing must address a worldwide crisis; and poet, spoken-word artist and activist Jayne Cortez talks about the Watts Writers' Workshop of the 1960's.