Smoke 'Em If You Got 'Em Podcast

Just out here, two ladies taking in the view from three years into their podcast on the outskirts of the zeitgeist. The Old 97s make honest women of us. Dave Cicirelli gives us a new look. Nancy and Sarah are making this episode free to everyone, in celebration of 1095+ days of trying to make sense of this crazy world.Also discussed:* The Smoke ‘Em guests that riled up listeners* Ross Douthat “places his finger on the deep wound”* We love a dorky wedding!* Pop quiz for Nancy: Pronounce “swastika”* Our 2025 guest wish list: we're looking at you, Douglas Murray.* Conclave, cleavage, whatever* Mike Pesca and his “New Substack” panic button* “Don't put it down, put it away …”* Nancy will never lose her contempt for Bernadine Dohrn* The hotness of Diego Luna* The hotness of Tom Hardy* Nancy's mom* POP ROCKS!Plus, things that are sexy: men who take the lead, flying toward the story, pleather, and much more! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah discuss the continuing saga of Luigi Mangione, newly minted folk hero and alleged assassin of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. “Here's this man who is a revolutionary, who's famous, who's handsome, he's smart, he's a person who seems like a morally good man, which is hard to find,” said journalist Taylor Lorenz on CNN, and while there was some context to that comment, there wasn't much. At Coachella, Circle Jerks' frontman Keith Morris called for an “army of Luigis,” while folk singer Jesse Welles is selling out venues with his Luigi-inspired song “United Healthcare.” Nancy and Sarah talk about anti-heroes, the politics of protest music, the catharsis of Netflix, and why our culture has a hard-on for murderers.Also discussed:* Would you go to space?* Why wasn't Oprah on that flight?* Nancy's Circle Jerks encounter* Sarah eats two-week old steak. Pays the price.* Cody Balmer is no Luigi Mangione — or is he?* Taylor Lorenz is one strange bird* Luxembourg, Rosenberg, same diff …* Missing Ross Perot* Sarah confuses Dallas Morning News baseball writer Evan Grant with Ryan Murphy favorite/teen heartthrob Evan Peters …* Weinstein case = can of worms with snakes inside* Sarah tells a dad joke, stands behind it* Someone looks like four miles of bad road* Candace Owens, if we must* You gotta put batteries in your vibratorPlus, Clyde Barrow was not impotent, ChatGPT roasts Sarah and Nancy, a special friend-of-the-pod on Bill Maher this Friday, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah discuss former “Shagger of the Year” Russell Brand, who's been charged with sexual misconduct, a year or two after an explosive documentary landed on British TV about the comedian/entertainer/podcaster/New-Age guru. That show kicked off a criminal investigation, now headed to the courts.Brand is at once an obvious and peculiar #MeToo target, since he was so outspoken about his misdeeds in real time, including a memoir about his sex addiction called My Booky Wook. The ladies discuss changing cultural climates, why women are drawn to charming reprobates, the logic of age-of-consent laws, and the appropriate legal consequences for someone who behaved badly and got lavishly rewarded for it.Also discussed:* Are Americans horny for anger, or is it just our Twitter feeds?* Disinhibited by a nap, Sarah falls into Twitter spat* Carrie Coon stans came to win* The spitfire that is (recent Smoke ‘Em guest!) Meghan McCain* Sarah regrets editing out a line about Russell Brand asking about panties* “Attention hunger”* The late great David Carr* “Feeding the fat kid” into perpetuity* Beware the older man saying, “I want to buy you a dress and take you out in it.” Honeytrap!* Paul Schrader, Taxi Driver screenwriter, should have known better* Sarah challenges Kmele Foster to an “antic conversation”* “It's dudes all the way down.”Plus, Sarah tries to explain a “vacation hat,” Nancy nominates Tom Hardy for perennial “Sexiest Man Alive,” a pic of where dozens of your favorite podcasters have peed, and much more!Correction: Nancy said the tariffs had wiped out $10 trillion in “debt,” when she meant to say “wealth.” Management regrets the error, while thinking she might have been wish-casting …

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comLiz Wolfe, Reason writer/podcaster, joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the mess of politics, the value of free speech, and how to talk about parenting in a world where fewer and fewer women are parents. Wolfe is not your average 28 year old: Unapologetically pro-life and pro-natalist as a time when many in her generation haven't even started contemplating freezing their eggs. Or, in the case of singer Chappell Roan, 27, they might tell an interviewer, “All of my friends who have kids are in hell. I actually don't know anyone who's happy and has children at this age.”Liz has thoughts!With her surfboard in the background and her toddler occasionally in her lap, Liz talks about choices, wonders, border chaos, her Catholic faith, reproductive tech, and why she's pleased that Grok compared her to Kat Timpf.Also discussed:* Happy Liberation Day?* Grok summarizes your narrators, and Sarah gets grumpy* Nancy's alter-ego has a pie in her backpack, with a gun* Truth Czar, Disinformation Chief … have the American people not suffered enough?* Sarah is pissed on Matt Taibbi's behalf* Talk to your hairdresser about the New York Times …* Warren Beatty quote: “One of the nice things God does is, he does not let people who don't have kids know what they're missing.”* Chappell Roan, a second-rate Lady Gaga* “Ambiguous loss”* Will Sarah have a kid on her own?* Do NOT call Nancy a single mother* Unrealistic expectations about our fertility window* “I bite Mama!”Plus, sliding out of Obama-era liberalism, the hazards of toxic empathy, poop under your fake nails, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comInvestigative reporter Lee Fang talks with Nancy and Sarah about his latest Substack story, “Democrats' Dark Money Fund for TikTok Influencers,” about secret forces behind the sudden media enthusiasm of Kamala Harris' presidential announcement. “As it turns out, the tidal wave of enthusiasm was not entirely genuine. Much of the content,” writes Fang, “was quietly funded by an elusive group of Democratic billionaires and major donors in an arrangement designed to conceal the payments from voters.”Fang may be familiar to listeners from a kerfuffle in summer 2020, when his colleagues at The Intercept turned on him publicly after he tweeted about riots amid the George Floyd moment. Fang talks about how he came to journalism, how to remain an honest broker, and why he's fascinated by the money behind power. Also discussed: * “Tits,” “rack,” and “bosom” all on-air in record time!* Fang, raised on WaPo and cereal* The eerie brilliance of Michael Savage* On being addicted to conservative radio* Fitness bloggers and Mommy bloggers go pro-Kamala!* Nancy has other thoughts about Kamala in the kitchen …* Why do conservative voices dominate the podcast space?* Kamala as “intersectional dream” and “where intersectionality goes to die”* “Call Lee Daddy”* Sarah's been pimping Diet Coke for 20 years and got bupkis* Going viral on Twitter. (Lee does not recommend.)* Sarah repeatedly refers to “Twitter Files” as “WikiLeaks” (durr)* That time Nancy and Lee went to Israel…* Sarah dives back into Depp/Heard; comes back with new information!* The possible Pfizer vaccine hold-up of 2020Plus, Lee recounts “The Intercept Incident,” why dark money won't see the light of day any time soon, Lee dispels conspiracy theories about him, and much more!REMINDER: First Sunday Zoom is this Sunday, April 6, 8pm ET/5pm PT, for paid subscribers only. We'll send the link day-of.Watch the video that caused so much trouble for Lee but made him a better journalist. Become a paid subscriber …

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah are joined by Aaron Gywn — paragon of good will on Twitter/X (follow at x.com/AmericanGwyn), literature professor, and author of numerous works of fiction, including The Cannibal Owl — to discuss a recent viral story in Compact Magazine, “The Vanishing White Male Writer.” We talk about shifts in publishing/culture, the trap of identity, and what great literature can do. Since Gwyn is a Cormac McCarthy expert, we also discuss the controversial 2024 Vanity Fair story about McCarthy and his muse, Augusta Britt.Also discussed:* The lost Pop Rocks episode* St. Louis, cool town* The epic beauty of Larry McMurtry's Lonesome Dove* “Jonathan Franzen is too much with us.”* 2014, the cultural swing year* The Michel Foucault of it all* “Most of publishing is throwing spaghetti at the wall to see if it sticks.”* Nancy needs to go to therapy* Aaron's message for writers: “If you want something, go get it.”* “NICE TITS”* Love and admiration for fiction writer Phil Klay* Male writers trying to “reassure the reader that he is the right sort of white man.”* On not getting over the 2008 death of David Foster Wallace* Butt-chugging Infinite Jest* How Ric Ocasek won Paulina Porizkova* Drakkar Noir makes Sarah horny* How Aaron reacts when caught in the tractor beam of beauty* “I contain multi-tools”* Mary Gaitskill, the honey badger of writersAlso, why Aaron cannot get fired up about anything that happened after 1876, how fiction writing is like ventriloquism, why we're all broken but still deserve love, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comDonald McNeil Jr., a 45-year New York Times veteran, comes on the pod to talk with Nancy and Sarah about … so much. The prompt was the recent NYT story, “We Were Badly Misled About the Event That Changed Our Lives.” As the paper of record tries to come correct on Covid, we wanted to hear from the science journalist, one of the first to tell Americans about this strange thing called the coronavirus. A self-declared “cranky old-school” reporter, McNeil landed the story of his career in 2020 and became part of a team that won the Pulitzer. But by 2021, he was gone, amid scandal and speculation. He talks about the bizarre kerfuffle that led to his resignation, mean girl dynamics at the paper, being misled by scientists, and what we do and don't know about Covid-19's origins. As McNeil wrote in Wisdom of Plagues, "Covid coarsened us as a nation... The coarsening cracks our national skin. It makes us more vulnerable to infection."Also discussed:* Nancy tries not to fangirl. She fangirls anyway.* “It's a great newspaper but it's a second-rate corporation, and its personnel stuff is particularly bad.”* The walk McNeil took with James Bennet, a year after both getting booted from the Times, is a play we'd like to see* “Looks like Don nailed it. Let's not tell him.” (!!!!!!)* NYT brass on their writing staff: “Widgets made here.”* Young turks vs. cranky old-timers in union leadership* The Daily Beast and Gawker do not cover themselves in glory* "The Western focus on personal liberty above all can kill."* The Mike Pesca of it all* The hope that Covid might “unite us with a common enemy” like WWII. Awww, what happened instead? We turned on each other.* “Ecstasy is a very good drug to get you talking”* McNeil = not a fan of Jay Battacharya* Thoughts on RFK!Plus, McNeil explains what “hot-box” once meant, where he thinks H5-N1 is going, how cancel culture is like the French Revolution, and much more!Does McNeil think Covid-19 was engineered in a virology lab or evolved in the wet market? Paid subscribers find out!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comAs we mark the fifth (yes, fifth!) anniversary of Covid, Nancy and Sarah look back at the mistakes, the time warp, the lessons. While some of these experiences are collective, some are quite specific, especially in blue states where enforced lockdowns and school closures stretched on longer. Was the misery of that time period a symptom of authoritarianism — or democracy?Big topic of the day: Ruby Franke, the Mormon mom with a YouTube channel currently serving time in prison for child abuse. A new docu-series on Hulu, Devil in the Family, connects the dots on how she got there. Nancy and Sarah talk toxic fundamentalism, mind control, sexual shaming, child abuse (and how it's culturally constructed), and the ethics of talking/blogging/profiting from your children. We also watched the Baldwins' new reality show, bless our hearts.Also discussed:* A crushing piece by a father on how COVID changed his young son* Hitchhiking!* The problems of safetyism* Sarah's secret petty side* “Sorry I didn't grow up in Appalachia…”* JD Vance memes are fun for everyone!* The ethics of writing/blogging about kids* How Sarah disappointed Katie Herzog* The vengeful figure of Jodi Hildebrant, therapist* Visions of Glory, the controversial Mormon book* We need to talk about Kevin* Nancy teaches Sarah the meaning of “May-December” romance* That time Alec Baldwin screamed at his daughter Ireland* Bad fathers can make good grandfathersPlus, a new theory on the Manson murders, Steve Kornacki's secret identity as a Lifetime movie scribe, Senator Bob Kerrey on grace, and more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah are joined by the Great Mike Pesca, one-time Jeopardy! contestant and host of news podcast The Gist, to talk about dudes and dude-related topics. They discuss men's-only spaces and whether women's workout wear has become hyper-sexualized (and is that a bad thing?). They also break down Gavin Newsom's podcast debut with his guest, conservative firebrand Charlie Kirk. Good idea? Dangerous idea? It's always a good time when Pesca visits the Smoke ‘Em pod.Also discussed:* In this house, we believe in peanut butter* Booo, Daylight Savings Time* A Pesca discourse on the copper content of pre- and post-1982 pennies* Lady Gaga on Saturday Night Live* High school Sarah had a crush on Mike Myers!* What Lululemon did to women — and men* Nancy does not like to see men without their shirts on! * Curves is the Jenny Craig of gyms* Why does a man buy a woman a steak?* Sarah is the whore of Babylon Williamsburg* Murder podcasts should not be snack food* The RFK Salon story that had to be retracted* Why do men dominate the podcast space?* Theories on Chris Hayes* Parker Posey's Lorazepam accent* Sadness and horror over Gene Hackman's deathPlus, why Sarah said no to Megyn Kelly, the time Pesca thought Lady Gaga was a drag queen, a PSA to take care of your olds, and much more!It's always an hour earlier when you become a paid subscriber.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“It was a very bad night for American boobs,” Sarah observed of the 2025 Oscars, where a conspicuous fashion trend has gone mostly unnoticed. Nancy and Sarah are on record for believing boobs are magic, so why did so many gorgeous actresses hide their tractor beams under a bushel? Could it be a sign of fashion's increasing androgyny… or Hollywood's increasing irrelevance? Then, Nancy goes on a multi-part rant about the Tate brothers coming back to the U.S., while Sarah ponders how those two became avatars of American manhood. Finally: Body language in the Trump-Vance-Zelenskyy showdown.Also discussed:* McDonald's serves the world's best Diet Coke* Please don't tell Sarah you appreciate her* 75% of Eagle Scouts are girls?* “Your Dune 2 fan is not watching the Oscars.”* “Boys just want the pretty girl in math class.”* Is J.D. Vance being cast as the heavy?* The end of reading?* Don DeLillo was “a beautiful culmination of the 20th century.”* Why Sarah shies away from talking politics* Has news replaced our need to read tragedy?Plus, Smoke gets a “Dear John” letter, the mystery of Gene Hackman's death, and much more!PS: Spare a thought/prayer for Kat Timpf, recently diagnosed with cancer, whose boobs are rightly being used right now only (or mostly!) to feed her newborn son. Love you Kitty Kat, godspeed xxActual footage of Sarah watching Oscar dresses on the red carpet …Oscars fashion fun behind the paywall, only for paid subscribers …

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comEli Lake is not a historian but a “journalist who loves history.” The former “Re-Education of Eli Lake” host and current Free Press contributor comes on Smoke for the second time to discuss his latest pop-history podcast, “Why We're Obsessed with JFK Conspiracies.” As usual, Lake puts his own distinctive spin on a story that may have been told before, yes, but not this way.First, though, Nancy and Sarah have to talk to Eli about Israel. Eli explains that what happened to the Bibas family has hardened his heart, but he's trying not to let it radicalize him. We talk morals and ideologies, the horrors of war, and the necessities for civil society.Also discussed:* “A rabbit hole the country has never been able to climb out of”* Eli teaches Sarah some Yiddish* “If Baruch Goldstein had been Palestinian, they'd be naming schools after him.”* Gaza-lago?* On conspiracy susceptibility: “It's either, ‘You're a moron' or, ‘How can you be so naive, kid?” And yet we want to believe …* Eli coins new and helpful word: Mono-cause* JFK is the “octopus conspiracy”* Even LBJ thought something weird was going on …* The unspeakable abuses exposed by the Church Committee* We are a pro-Norman Mailer podcast!* Nancy says something profound?* Sarah quotes Timothee Chalamet award speech, nobody cares* Editor's note: Hal Ashby directed Harold and Maude* Second editor's note: Waylon Jennings sand Dukes of Hazzard theme song* “What happened to normal movies?”* The Emilia Perez kerfuffle is so 2020Plus, Eli is such a good guest he brought his own outro (AND wrote Nancy a Sleater-Kinneyesque theme for her new interview series CHEFS TALK), Nancy and Sarah wrassle over what movie wins Best Picture, we imagine a woke Dukes of Hazzard, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comYou might know Meghan McCain from her stints at FOX, The View, SiriusFM, but surely you know her as the daughter of the late Arizona senator John McCain. “Nepo baby!” McCain jokes during her podcast introduction, but McCain is much more than that. She's a savvy media fixture who has very strong opinions about, well, everything. Nancy and Sarah like that in a gal! The three of them talk about politics, body image, #MeToo, and the vibe shift that has made conservatives cool for the first time in Meghan's life.Also discussed:* “The most radical thing I've ever done is not dieting.”* Thoughts on Ozempic* Megababe for chub rub* “Nobody was cooler than an Obama bro, and my dad tried to stop him.”* Meghan on her dad: “He carpied the diem.”* “The uptight, HR-department, school-marm dorks are the Democrats?”* The anchoring sanity of The Fifth Column* Aziz Ansari and Meghan's #MeToo breaking point* The cringe of working for Roger Ailes* That time the New Yorker claimed Brett Kavanaugh was a gang rapist* Friends we lost in the culture war …* Austin: a lost paradise?* Some love for Mark Halperin* Immigration and the lack of humanity* The heartbreak of the Bibas family* Meghan gives “Texas babe vibes”* LET'S GO TO THE RODEOPlus, Meghan on what happened at Columbia (her alma mater), Nancy has a Sharon Stone in Basic Instinct moment, Sarah doesn't think she's a Bad Bitch, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“Would you have Elon Musk's baby?” Sarah texted Nancy the other day, to which she responded, “Fuck no.” Thus launches the latest Smoke ‘Em debate, in which our co-host who is without child confesses she'd take some of that SpaceX sperm. Has she lost her mind, or is she merely responding to nature's imperative? We discuss this, as well as Musk's new babymama, Ashley St. Clair.Then it's on to a double-dip from New York Times Magazine: “Why Gen X Women are Having the Best Sex” and “How I Learned That the Problem in My Marriage Was Me.” Is 20th-century licentiousness dead? Has therapy bled too far into the culture?Also discussed:* Diet Pepsi > Diet Coke* “On accident” vs. “by accident”?* Sperm ice cubes at the 7-Eleven* Milo Yiannopoulos has entered the chat* Can you make yourself sexy or nah?* Netchix and flill* Nancy declares she does not like declarative sentences* The saddest divorce book* Why does Nancy get so annoyed when people talk about their sex lives?* Sarah's string of younger men* Moynihan's not kicking those bikini-clad girls out of bed* Women have rage problems, too* Announcement: CHEFS TALK!!!* “The thing about Led Zeppelin songs is, none of the names make sense.”Plus, the speedball of intimacy, the obsession with being obsessed, Nancy gets a crush on Jimmy Page, and much more!Correction: Listener Mavis wrote: “In ‘Iphigenia in Forest Hills,' she killed her child's father, not her daughter!” Absolutely correct! Nancy regrets the error, and for more Janet Malcolm, see this week's hot boxes

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah celebrate Valentine's Day with a civil disagreement on how stupid the holiday actually is. Also: Sex trivia! The conversation ranges from how people can masturbate in an MRI to Super Bowl controversies and the greatness of Janet Malcolm. Also discussed:* All New Yorkers go to Miami?* Sarah explains women to Nancy* Gifts are not meant to be manipulations* Kanye and AI nonsense* “Swat-sticker” (!!!!!)* Bill Gates on the upside of AI* The low rattle of unhappiness* Salmon sperm facials* Tafv, we want your blood* Something strange is afoot at the Kinsey Institute* How often do people over 45 masturbate, and why is that number a lie?* Orgasms in your sleep* “How are you masturbating in an MRI?”* Taylor Swift booed* Farewell to the penny!! You served us well.* Great new Janet Malcolm story by Katie Roiphe* People vs. the story: A journalism debate!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“Ready to go ten rounds?” Nancy asked Sarah, when Sarah asked her to watch Emilia Pérez, a Spanish-language musical for which there is no shortage of agitation on both the right and the left. Trans activists hate it, Ben Shapiro called it garbage, Mexican film goers are apparently asking for their money back. And yet, the movie got a whopping 13 Oscar nominations. What gives?Nancy reluctantly watched Emilia Pérez, and — was completely surprised. Her reaction was, in fact, very similar to Sarah's. (That's why Sarah wanted her to see it.) Is this wild, unconventional movie a triumph, a “glittering disaster,” a “trans Mrs. Doubtfire”? The answer is all of the above.Also discussed:* “Happy Monday!”* Nancy fat-shames the poor widdle groundhog* New coinage: “Western Time”* Sarah's pre-flight soul inventory is arduous* “The denial of death shapes most people's lives.”* “House of Strauss” has the best theme music (and, ahem, the best guests)* General Hospital, remembered* We hate lecture films* Why Emilia Perez makes sense as an opera* Selena Gomez is like watching fourteen cupcakes shimmy around in a dress* Johanne Sacreblue!* The Pope version of Survivor* Kieran Culkan is a bad-assPlus, Nancy writes a nice essay, Sarah is up for an award, what the hell is Groundhog's Day, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comSarah and Nancy discuss the Atlantic story “The Anti-Social Century,” about how much of modern life is being lived in isolation. They talk about eating alone, parasocial relationships, and why Sarah feels completely nailed by the data point that “the typical female pet owner spends more time actively engaged with her pet than she spends in face-to-face contact with friends of her own species.”Also discussed:* Okay, we'll talk about that thing Elon did* Is the blue/gold dress the metaphor of our times?* Trump is the candidate Americans built brick-by-brick* Who did Nancy write-in for president 2024? This guy…* Gotta agree with Sarah's old roommate on the Kleenex thing* Shark Tank love* McLuhan: “Every augmentation is an amputation”* Sarah finds listening to Jon Ronson is “deeply edifying”* Nancy is impressed — again! — with the concept “skin hunger”* Someone admits to watching Rock of Love* Character.ai: Let us know if you're using it!* Late-breaking Oscar nominationsPlus, the generosity of David Lynch's dreamscapes, “let me sell you a solution to a problem you didn't know you had,” Sarah requests you send her postcards stating your favorite hm-hm-hm, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comReading Noah Rothman's new piece in Commentary, “A Clockwork Blue: How the Left Has Come to Excuse Away and Embrace Political Violence,” I felt as though he had written it just for me; this, because he called to account institutions and individuals who proclaim violence from the left justified, a trend I found maddening when I covered 150+ nights of violent street protests in Portland in 2020. And about that: How long did Rothman think that violence would have been explained away had it been committed by the right?"Hours," he said.In a discussion that calls out violence on all sides, Rothman addresses the roots of political barbarism, how the power of crowds can lead well-adjusted people to commit orgies of violence, the juvenile cop-out of making avatars of people in order to justify brutality against them, and some especial opprobrium for the intellectual and spiritual poverty that makes a hero of Luigi Mangione, who, weeks after murdering UnitedHealth CEO Brian Thompson, was given a round of applause by an SNL audience.“The point of this piece is a call for political consistency,” said Rothman. “Only when we have consistency will we see a decline in political violence.”Noah Rothman is a senior writer for National Review. He is the author of Unjust: Social Justice and the Unmaking of America (Regnery, 2019) and The Rise of the New Puritans: Fighting Back Against Progressives' War on Fun (HarperCollins, 2022). His work has been published in USA Today, the Washington Examiner, the New York Post, the New York Times, the Atlantic, the Washington Post, and elsewhere. Follow on Twitter/X at NoahCRothman

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah dive into the messy New York magazine cover story on literary superstar Neil Gaiman, accused of sexual assault by multiple women. The story broke over the summer in a British podcast — which Nancy and Sarah listened to, and much preferred — and they zero in on the story's different presentations and ethical tangles. It's a tale of celebrity, status-seeking, boundarilessness, and cruelty. But is it criminal? Let's discuss.Also discussed:* Joe Biden made a speech* Bathtub as flytrap* If I serve you a steak, and you write to tell me you loved it, then logically do I:* Serve you another steak* Assume you don't really like steak and only told me you did so we can keep hanging out* Report me because I pressed the steak on you while knowing you hated steak* What does logic have to do with it?* To be clear: We are anti-vagina whipping* Do women want sexual freedom, to be protected class — or both?* Please don't trot out experts to support your insupportable point* Nancy knee-jerks over journalism* Is consent really black and white? And if so, why has it spawned five million think pieces and hours of podcasts like this?* Jon Ronson puts Sarah to sleep but “in a loving way.”* “If my literary hero appeared to me when I was 22 when I happened to be hot and not a binge-drinking chubby lonely-heart watching Real World marathons while hungover on the futon …”Plus, Sarah hates the “cup of tea” consent video, some love for fact-checkers, the 1-minute video that's made Nancy laugh 20 times, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comBe warned, beloveds: Lots of sex talk here; hide the kiddies and the squeamish. Also! Due to some ghost in the machine, our last episode, “Meghan Daum on What We've Lost in the Los Angeles Wildfires,” may have included a paywall that we did not put there. It is free for all, and it's fixed now.No worries if you haven't seen “Babygirl,” the erotic drama wherein a tightly wound CEO with an Instagram-perfect life (Nicole Kidman) gets down and dirty with a much younger male intern (Harris Dickinson). Sarah and Nancy are discussing a lot more than just a movie: The nature of female desire, why domination fantasies are so taboo, and whether masochism is threaded into the female sexual experience. (Sweeping generalizations alert!) Also discussed:* Nancy's name makes a comeback and she can't take it* Consent does not line up with desire* The thing about negging is …* Don Draper, feminist icon?* All hail Showgirls, the best-worst movie ever* Nancy likes to wrestle* The orgasm gap* Why does a man buy a woman a steak?* Nancy Friday's My Secret Garden* Define “hypergamy”Plus, Nancy picks an “obscure book” for her hotbox only to find it has 105,000 reviews on Amazon, a male companion robot that looks like Harry Dean Stanton, “Freedom for Scotland!” and much moreAre there heretofore unexperienced pleasures when you become a paid subscriber? One way to find outWe might be paywalling this episode, but we're not monsters…

Essayist and Unspeakable pod host Meghan Daum joins Nancy and Sarah to talk about the worst fires ever recorded in Southern California — what it was like to learn that her house in Altadena burned down, the blame game that both sides are playing, the surreal celebrity angle, and why you don't actually have to tweet. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“I am still waiting for my bathrobe, and until you give it to me, I am going to be forced to do this podcast in the nude,” Kat Rosenfield tells Nancy and Sarah, who really need to move on this gift they keep promising her for repeat appearances. Kat is here to discuss her recent Free Press column on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, “a turducken of a story” about alleged misbehavior and creative control on the set of It Ends With Us. The stars' dueling legal documents lit up social media over the holidays, but it's … confusing. Kat sees it less as a “he said/she said," and more of a battle of PR narratives.Also discussed:* But who is Colleen Hoover?* “I have a series of really hot takes…”* Justin Baldoni: sexy or nah?* Nancy likes a dad bod* Is asking someone what they weigh “fat-shaming”?* “I have been taken on a journey of eroticism and repulsion, and that's what I count on you for…”* Shades of Depp-Heard* Megan Twohey strikes again* “Astro-turfed pseudo-consensus”; rolls right off the tongue* How to pronounce “simulacram”?* Reflexive outrage: what is it good for?* Wait, that's not Markle's kitchen?* Ascribing a richness of interior life to people that they neither have nor deservePlus, dry cake, Nancy's failing face, a movie trailer that gives all the cringes, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah share their highs and lows from the year that was. Which movie did Nancy love, and Sarah despise? (Hint: It's not the Bob Dylan movie.) Which book did Sarah love, even though Nancy finds the author “twee”? Plus, Sarah quizzes Nancy about momentous events in 2024, and Nancy mostly bombs, no cap.Also discussed:* “It's always butter with you”* Was Joan Baez that hot?* The movie that set both Sarah and Nancy's nerves on edge* What live televised event got a Taylor Swift bump?* Who was that guy that bombed at the Golden Globes, again?* Big love for Andy Mills* No Problematic Coffee* “As a childless cat lady …”* Michael Moynihan's Melania impersonation gets a run for its moneyPlus, knee-jerk Nancy on the year's worst politician, Sarah panic-votes for macaroni and cheese, and more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comIt's the end of 2024, and Sarah and Nancy wonder if two recent media phenomena represent a paradigm shift in two areas: porn and the collective consciousness. On one side: “I'm Lily Phillips, and today I'm getting run through by a hundred guys.” On the other side: “This groundbreaking series challenges everything we think we know about communication and the human mind, inviting viewers to step into a reality where the impossible is not only possible but happening every day.”Yes, we're talking about the YouTube documentary I Slept With 100 Men in One Day and the podcast The Telepathy Tapes, exploring the potentially telepathic abilities of nonverbal autists. What do these two things have in common? Join us to find out, in a conversation that veers from unexpected sex toys to Carl Jung. Also, Nancy cries about something other than journalism.Also discussed:* Nancy pens a viral tweet!* The how-to-fold-a-fitted-sheet debate* Wait, there are drones over LA, too?* Sarah wants Nancy to start an OnlyPans page* The orange street cone goes into WHAT, now?* Lily Phillips' understatement of the year: “I don't know if I'd recommend it”* The arrogance of thinking we know everything about science* When Freud and Jung parted ways …* Babe Paley's husband

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah discuss the very online experience of watching both the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson and the capture of the man named as his killer, Luigi Mangione. We discuss the memes, conspiracies, tasteless jokes, and crushes on the alleged shooter. Did the tragic incident offer a pressure-valve release to Americans frustrated by a limping healthcare system, or is it an inflection point for something more dangerous? And how should we feel when murder becomes entertainment? Also discussed:* The Daniel Penny verdict* The floating-in-space feeling between election and inauguration* Activism ain't what it used to be* “Will you forgive me for loving to say his name?”* Piers Morgan, the Jerry Springer of political shows* “The brain is a dangerous thing”* Bonnie & Clyde and glamorous crime* “Desire knows no ethics”* The detail that helps Luigi Mangione's capture in a McDonald's make sense* Caitlin Flanagan, the master storyteller* “What will survive of us is love”* Did Sonny Liston take a dive?Plus, Sarah's brain makes “popcorn” in the middle of the night, Nancy thinks CBD makes her sing better, Ben Dreyfuss talks with Taylor Lorenz (let's listen), and more!As the poet says, what will survive of us is love. As the podcasters say, we survive only if you become a paid subscriber

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comSmoke ‘Em welcomes favorite repeat guest and self-proclaimed “absolute newspaper romantic” Matt Welch. He talks with Nancy and Sarah about whether legacy papers can ever make a comeback and how they ignore local news at their own peril, plus whether civility might be on the upswing.Also discussed:* Pink hair don't care* How the Los Angeles Times “changed the physical landscape of the West.”* Scott Jennings joins the editorial board at the LA Times. And?* “Like perestroika, incivility starts in the home”* They're still counting votes in California!* Is activism dead or just sleeping?* “Throw any Russian in a skirt at Hegseth and he's going to loosen his tie”* “A dark sky had fallen over Nantucket, Mass., on Saturday evening when President Biden left church alongside his family after his final Thanksgiving as president …”* Meghan McCain, flashpoint* “Mono-politics is bad for governance”* Maybe people should disengage from politics and take up streaking and fart books?* People who voted for Kamala, but were pulling for Trump?* Nancy thinks “raw-dogging” means …* Sarah interviews Ken Burns, American treasureAlso, a wretched New York Times “Ethicist” question, thoughts on why Biden pardoned his son, dick-shaped cookie cutters, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah discuss two recent dust-ups between men and women: One is fraught and potentially career-damaging, the other is (arguably) romantic, but also potentially legacy-damaging. Trump's nominee to lead the Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, is facing scandal that stems from a 2017 encounter at a Republican women's convention, and the details are … confusing? Don't really add up? Then we discuss the secret muse of Cormac McCarthy, 64-year-old Finnish lass Augusta Britt, who shares the story of her underage love affair (and lifelong connection) with McCarthy in a Vanity Fair story that was much-loved and much-trashed. Wanna guess where we fell?Also discussed:* Can anyone pronounce the last name Hegseth?* The detail that brought the case together for Nancy* Never name your bar “Knuckles”* What if he were in a blackout, and she wasn't …* Cock-clock, crotch-block, what?* The two foods all men love* “We don't get enough Finnish chutzpah”* “Well baby, that's what I do. I'm a writer.”* Nancy just keeps vibrating* Purple prose? Bring it* The case of Joyce Maynard* Sarah is really mad at WickedPlus, controversy over a writer's hair, Nancy's stuffing recipe, and more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comAfter a brief discussion of the Mike Tyson-Jake Paul fight, Nancy and Sarah talk about health, weight, and other confusions. The inspiration is a recent New York Times story that three-quarters of Americans are overweight or obese, a report that coincides with the rise of new gurus like Dr. Casey Means, who recently appeared on Real Time With Bill Maher to talk about how little doctors understand nutrition and why Robert F. Kennedy Jr. could be a disruptor in the Department of Health. (Debatable.) Sarah, who has struggled with weight most of her life, expresses frustration at the mixed messages around eating. Nancy, who carried 20 extra pounds as a young woman, wonders how much people let weight keep them in a holding pattern.Also discussed:* JerryWorld!* Was the fight fixed?* “You gotta let people take their shot.”* One word: Plastics* Glucose monitors?* The U.S. state with the most obese women is …* To Ozempic, or not to Ozempic?* Bill Maher is never backing down from January 6Plus, Sarah gets a walking desk, a new Taylor Sheridan show drops, Nancy's daughter has a doppelganger, and more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“I didn't transition to replace cis women in sports,” begins Brianna Wu, the straight-shooter who chats with Sarah and Nancy this week. “I transitioned because I wanted to get along.” Joined by Kelly Cadigan, who co-hosts their new podcast “Dollcast,” both women talk openly about the frustration of watching the trans civil rights conversation hijacked by extremists, pitting people against each other. We discuss how the election may have been affected by the trans issue, the challenge of integrating trans women into sports, and what a more sane approach to dealing with trans minors might look like.Also discussed:* The newest member of Sarah's family* Gamergate* Brianna just wants to have lunch uptown* Vaginoplasty, actually rare among trans women* “You do not want to know me without HRT”* The nonbinary phenomenon* “I don't have any delusions I'm a biological woman, just admit I'm a kind of woman, albeit a weird one.”* 15 is terrible for every girl!* “It's dangerous for me to out myself.”* Who drank the Zionism super-serum?Plus, the conundrum of granting grace, the hope that we've reached a reset on conversations, the sexiness of Seth Moulton, and more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comRats in the walls, ghosts in the bull rushes and some extreme reactions to the election of Donald Trump as president. What to do? Swear off sex? Buy a blue bracelet at Target? Excise at least 53% of Americans from your life? Sounds tragic. Maybe what we need is a child actress from the ‘80s to deliver some common sense …Also discussed:* A

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comTrump won, Kamala lost. People have feelings about this (including us). But it's not going to get easier imagining that 50% of Americans are racists, misogynists, or whatever other -ist can be deployed to explain how Republicans pulled off a stunning victory on Tuesday, which some worry is ushering in an unprecedented period of darkness…As it turns out, the sun rose! And Nancy and Sarah talk about What Happened: Are people uncomfortable with a woman leading? How big a factor was abortion? Do people just want change?Also discussed:* “Hollywood lost its grip on the popular imagination.”* Polling: What is it good for?* I mean we like Queen Latifah too, but …* Sarah once wrote a column called “Crying in Restaurants”* Trump announced during his acceptance speech that Melania's book was #1. Does it shock anyone that this is not exactly the case?* What's up with all the crying videos?* “Shut up, Mom!”* Some love for Brianna Wu* Is kissing cheating?* Wishing our pal Steve Kornacki a napPlus, some day-after podcasts that made sense of the election, an eye-popping new Netflix bio on Martha Stewart, and a bonus video of … Eli Lake dancing?

Sarah is scared to fly, Nancy is freaked out by moldy cheese, and both of them have scary stories related to times they got in a car they shouldn't have. In honor of Halloween, we talk about classic horror movies, break out some October 31 trivia, and discuss what scares Americans most. Also discussed:* Is Jaws a horror movie: a debate!* Nancy's almost-star turn in said same movie* 2023's #1 Halloween costume* Alligators in the sewers: real or urban myth?* The movie image that freaked out 12-year-old Sarah* The devil's entrance from hell was in … Nancy's dad's apartment?* Everyone is afraid of one of these: snakes, rats or …* Small planes have a better chance of survival?* “The guy with the pin cushions in his face.”* Elevator shaft close calls* “The line between blooper reel and tragedy is very thin”Plus, how to swim out of a riptide, Nancy does a Vincent Price impersonation, Sarah's top scary movie, and much more! First Sunday — and last call before the election — Zoom: For paid subscribers, this Sunday, November 3, 8pmET/5pmPT. Bring your predictions, your fears, what's left of your kids' Halloween candy and/or something stronger.It was a dark and stormy night when you finally became a paid subscriber … Forgot to mention: Our pal Michael Moynihan will be on “Real Time with Bill Maher” this Friday. Last show before the election should be a doozy.Episode Notes:“Bannon's Prison Sentence Is Over and He Has Nothing New To Say,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)“Highest Grossing Horror Movies of All Time,” by Travis Bean (Forbes)“What Are Americans Really Afraid Of?” Chapman University surveyAmericans' #1 fear? Corrupt politicians. In related news …“Alligators in the sewer myth is true: City workers find out in jaw-dropping video,” by Ben Cost (New York Post)Thank you, Stephen KingWhat's in your hot box?Sarah: Stoner, by John Williams Nancy: Citizens: A Chronicle of the French Revolution, by Simon SchamaSarah picks the outro This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“The election is a week from tomorrow, thank God,” says Sarah, speaking for the rest of us, feeling as though we are Danny in The Shining and the candidates are the twins…We take a break from political news (well, kind of) to talk about two recent TV distractions: Anatomy of Lies, a three-part docuseries about the bundle of fraudulence that was Grey's Anatomy writer Elisabeth Finch, and Woman of the Hour, a tense Netflix drama directed by and starring Anna Kendrick and based on the real-life story of a serial killer contestant on The Dating Game. Also discussed:* Tony Hinchcliffe's very bad joke* Nancy wants the media to use more precise language* Joe Rogan podcast: Trump has logorrhea* Be careful what you say in the supermarket …* Andie MacDowell and the afterlife* A side effect of knee surgery replacement is … obsessive lying?* What with all the serial killers?* Should we watch the Menendez Brothers documentary?Plus, Sarah can't go anywhere without being recognized, Nancy has a question about crossing over, a very enthusiastic hot box recommendation, and much more!Correction: Nancy initially said the pro-Nazi rally in Madison Square Garden took place in 1939, then changed it to 1936. Right the first time! First Sunday — and last call before the election — Zoom: For paid subscribers, this Sunday, November 3, 8pmET/5pmPT. Bring your predictions, your fears, what's left of your kids' Halloween candy and/or something stronger.Our girl Nancy has a birthday this week, and we know the perfect gift:

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comLet's say you want to promote a book and you have a little ad money to burn. If you are author and communications consultant Melanie Notkin, you might contact Shelf Awareness, which sends free newsletters to, per its Instagram bio, “booksellers, librarians, publishers, book collectors, literary antiquarians, and everyone else who loves to read.” Shelf Awareness publisher Matt Balducci was happy to run the promo, for the U.S. release of Bernard-Henri Lévy's latest book… until two days later, when he emailed Melanie to say they were cancelling the ad.“I've never been denied the ability to pay for an ad in any outlet,” says Notkin, who knew, before she spoke with Balducci — a conversation Notkin recorded — that he was backing out because of one of the words in the book's two-word title, and it wasn't “Alone.”Francesca Block at The Free Press reported on the story earlier today. Here, Notkin picks up the conversation, including:* Is the anti-Israeli movement contracting or going underground?* Pro tip: When you basically tell someone you're caving to the mob, maybe try not to sound patronizing* The shadow-banning of books and authors leads nowhere good* Quick: A group of masked people on the subway chant, “Raise your hand if you're a Zionist!” What do you do?* “I don't want to live in a world where my friend denounces me.”* #nevershuttingupPlus, big love for Douglas Murray, when intolerance becomes a show of valor, and did casual Fridays ruin everything?

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comGreetings from Nancy's 31st hotel room! Our roving reporter is on the scene in Asheville, North Carolina, where she gives Sarah the scoop on hurricane damage, what the politicized coverage has gotten wrong, and why it's good to live near churches when catastrophe strikes. The two of them talk Ted Cruz vs. Colin Allred, as well as Kamala Harris vs. Bret Baier. Then it's on to the New York Times' latest story on University of Michigan's DEI double-down.Also discussed:* What up with those shower half-doors?* Fewer “talking points” Kamala, more Feisty Kamala* Name someone more weasely than Ted Cruz. We'll wait …* “Whore's bath”???* FEMA controversy = not that controversial* Does DEI cause plane crashes?* How long will colleges ignore the ROI?* Anatomy of Lies: Next week's topic?* What does it say about us that we love exposing liars?Plus, the problem with the docu-series, the man who puts Sarah to sleep every night, Nancy needs a bath, and more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“The path to success may not always be easy, but with determination and courage, you can achieve your dreams.” So writes Melania Trump (or ChatGPT?) on page 34 of the memoir released yesterday by the former first lady. And we have questions! Such as, did any of the Big Five publishers bid on the book? Who wrote Melania's memoir and has she seen it? Is Donald Trump, as portrayed here, actually made out of wood?Also discussed:* Every Ta-Nahesi Coates interview doesn't need to be a tongue bath* Nancy's turning point with Palestinian protestors* Will Melania's pro-choice position sway undecided voters?* But really: No way is Donald Trump pro-life* Why did Skyhorse, which published Melania, demand $250,000 when CNN asked for an interview?* “Who gives a fuck about Chrismas decoration?”: Melania caught on hot mic* The explanation of that weird “I don't care, do you?” fashion moment* Point-counterpoint: Was Melania truly out of the loop on January 6?* Melania's plastic surgery* The case for the middle ground on abortion* How to get “maximum spillage and bobble”Plus, the viral performance artist imitating trash bags, the disturbing face-eating disease Nancy brings up at the last moment (why?!), some love for FIRE, and more!

“[The Russians] always claim to free us and to help us. They free us from our houses, schools, hospitals, from our families, from everything. They want to make us completely free, and maybe even from our bodies.” - Oksana HutnykNancy here. It is the 29th of September, 2024, and I'm going to take us back a few years to, February 24th, 2022, the day Russia invaded Ukraine and started a war that is ongoing. We are going to hear from two people in Lviv, Ukraine, and by way of introduction, I'd thought I'd tell you how I know them.I wound up in Ukraine on March 4th of 2022, a little over a week after the war started. I got over there simply because I wanted to go. Michael Moynihan of The Fifth Column podcast was then at Vice News. He was going to be heading over and I said, Hey, can I tag along with your crew? He said, sure. But then his trip was delayed.I had already bought my ticket, so I headed over alone. I'm not a war correspondent, and I was only in Ukraine for about a week, so I'm not telling you some super-secret anything, but it is the case that you learn very quickly what the fog of war means, because nobody really knows what's going on. Modes of communication had been cut. I don't speak Ukrainian. It was a tense time, obviously; the country's being invaded.I wound up in Warsaw and had no idea how I was getting into Ukraine. You can't take a bus, you can't take a plane, you can't drive over. But I got a DM from a woman on Twitter; I'll call her T. She was from the area around Lviv, Ukraine. She lived in Portland, Oregon now and had been following my reporting from that city in 2020 and 2021. She contacted me and said, Listen, I have a friend in Lviv. If you can get there, I'm sure you can hook up with her. I'm like, that sounds great.I bought what I thought was a bus ticket to the border, to Przemyśl in Poland. It turned out to be a train ticket. On the train, I met a Ukrainian who was coming from Holland. Vitaly had been working there and was going back to Odessa. He had to. All Ukrainian men between certain ages were being called back to fight, and those in-country were not allowed to leave. The elderly and some women and children were allowed to get out. Anyway, Vitaly was also going back because he had family in Odessa. They'd been staying in his house; his sister and nieces and nephews. He's got to go back, first of all to fight, and also to see how they were doing. So we met, he spoke pretty good English, and we get to Przemyśl and it's a madhouse.We're not very far from the border, probably about 10 miles, but it's pretty much the middle of the night, and while there are some cabs, it's a bit sketchy and what are they going to do? Take you to the border and drop you off in the woods? This doesn't sound so smart. Anyway we get off the train and walk past all this stuff that's already been donated. There are baby carriages, there's food, there's clothing, just piles of it. We walk past it all and to an area where there are a lot of people waiting, mostly men, mostly Ukrainian, coming from different parts of Europe. They've been working in Spain and other countries. There are a few Americans, these guys with an attitude like, We're going to go over and we're going to help the Ukrainians. I don't think things worked out well for a lot of them. My friend Antonio Hitchens wrote a really good piece about them for the New York Review of Books, you can read that here.Anyway, I don't know what's going on, nor does Vitaly, and we are just waiting in this line of a couple hundred people. It's getting really cold, too. I went to Ukraine with just a child-sized knapsack, it had my computer a warm jacket that folded to about the size of a deck of cards and a tiny bit of clothing; I didn't pack much because I didn't know how I was going to get around, if I were going to be on the back of a motorcycle or something. Anyway, I'm freezing; we're all pretty much freezing as we watch hundreds of people come out of this doorway, women, the elderly, children, carrying no more than a shopping bag and sometimes not even that. We don't know where they've come and we don't get a chance to speak with any of them, but we figure, correctly, they are refugees coming from the eastern parts of Ukraine and into Poland. [For more on this journey see, “Dispatch from Ukraine: The Road to Lviv.”]After about an hour and a half, two hours, the refugees peter out and we are allowed to walk in. Nobody knows where the train is going. It could be going to Odessa. It could or could not be stopping first in Lviv, but Vitaly feels pretty certain it will. Meanwhile, I've been trading messages with T in Portland, she's saying, When and if you get to Lviv, my friend Oksana's husband, he's going to be waiting for you at the train station. I'm like, okay; if we get there.We board this train. It's very rudimentary, no bathrooms, hardwood seats. We get on, it's about midnight now, and we're just sort of hurtling through the night. We can see nothing really out the windows and no way of knowing where we are going. A few young men walk through with rifles; a few young women ask to see some ID, which we show them. We have no tickets and no one asks for them. Meanwhile there are a couple of gals sitting next to us. They're probably in their thirties. They have gone over the border and dropped off their children. Think about this. It's the first week of the war. You want to keep your children safe so you cross the border and drop them off, hopefully with family, and then you go back because you want to go back. You want to help protect your country. This is the message I will get later on, over and over. In any case, they gals are very sweet with me. I hadn't eaten anything and they're forcing a sandwich on me. I'm like, I'm going to take their sandwiches, after what they are going through? No, no. But they're like, You have to eat, eat please. I did.Anyway, Vitali is just heroic and wonderful, and after about an hour and a half, the train stops. Are we in Lviv? Not sure. We all get off and walk for a bit through a dark empty area. Vitaly is going to try to catch a train for Odessa, he doesn't know if there will be one, we are all hoping the connections we need are going to happen. We walk through the darkness and then we make a turn, and in the distance, maybe a quarter of a mile, there are thousands of people, we walk toward and then through and among them, people trying to get out of Ukraine, people moving further in-country, aid organizations like World Central Kitchen there feeding and clothing people, and while it could have devolved into mayhem, it does not at all, there is no shouting or pushing, it's like a very efficient ant colony working under bright lights in the middle of the night.The train station is massive, with big wide gigantic steps leading in. T texts again -Oksana's husband is there, he will meet me on the train steps, he's wearing a blue jacket. There are literally hundreds of people moving on the train steps, and I don't want to hold up Vitaly any longer; he's been so wonderful and so protective, and he's got to catch a train to his family. I'm like, Go, go. I'm going to be fine. And he's says, No, we are going to find your friend's husband. And he turns around and says, Maybe that is him. He is looking at a man looking at us, a man who holds up his phone, and on the phone is a picture of me. [He recognized me, he will later say, from my pink hair.] He and Vitaly grasp hands and say something I took to mean, I got her this far; you will take her now? Yes, I will take her.I'm getting overcome remembering this, that people who don't know you at all will come in the middle of the night to pick you up, during the second week of a war. This is what he did. And he didn't speak any English. And I spoke no Ukrainian. I tried to be composed as we drove in his nice very warm car to his home, where his wonderful wife Oksana opened the door to me at 3:30 in the morning and we sat in her kitchen and we talked. Her English was very good. She worked as a travel agent. They had two daughters, at the time ages 8 and 14, the 14-year-old was staying with the grandparents nearby and in whose bedroom I slept for five nights and reported, including on Oksana and her family.Oksana and I went and did a lot of different reporting, and I was unbelievably fortunate to have had this happen. And then you also wonder if it's the case if you get yourself there, things are going to work out. I was never in any danger. I was not running into any kind of war zone. But there was bombing there soon after I left, which brings me a little bit up to today.Oksana and I have stayed in touch. She and her two daughters came to New York in September 2022 and stayed with me for five days. They were in the States for a couple of months traveling around. Her husband had really wanted her to get out because do you want your wife and kids around during the war? She had definitely not wanted to leave when I was there. She said essentially, I'm going to stay here, I'll pick up a gun if I need to. And that was very much the sense I had when I reported from Ukraine, how devoted people were to keeping themselves safe and protecting their countrymen and protecting their country.More than two and a half years later, the war is still going on. We have obviously been preoccupied with another war, in Israel. There are so many stories of carnage that I think Ukraine sometimes sort of fades, but of course there are still bombings and there's still information we're trying to parse, what's happening and what's true from propaganda and wishful thinking. I have stayed in touch with Oksana, who last week sent me information about a family who had perished, all except for the father. More of their story is here and it's brutal and horrible and includes the line, “The world hardly notices anymore…”I asked Oksana if she would record with me, and perhaps with her brother Roman, a software developer, to let people know what is going on in their country from people living it day by day. Without further ado, here is Oksana and Roman Hutnyk.Related reading:“Dispatch From Ukraine: 'Let's Go. Let's Not Go,'” by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)“Dispatch From Ukraine: The Hutnyks of Lviv,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)“Dispatch From Ukraine: Living as a Russian in Ukraine,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Reason)If you appreciate this Substack, consider a paid subscription. Your support lets us keep bringing you the stories This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comTo talk or not to talk about this week's red meat media story? Well, we're talking. Are we surprised at the appetite that some in media take in shredding one of their own in public? Of course not; it's the same old boring mob behavior. But what's really behind it? Professional jealousy? The moronic idea that if you knock a person off her perch, that gets you closer to her gig? And does anyone believe, as a kajillion tweets enjoin us to believe, that women and journalism have been set back decades?Also discussed:* Melania Trump as new and improved political spouse* Who among us has not posed for tasteful nudes?* No one should doubt the pulverizing power of the Kennedy machine* The irresponsibility of running “too good to verify” stories* The necessary intimacy between reporter and subject. “It's a dance of sorts.”* Status, the new fragrance for men…* Things worked out well for the creator of the Shitty Media Men List: yea or nay?Also discussed: the literary imposter Laura Albert (aka, J.T. Leroy), an unrecognizable Colin Farrell, Nancy's got a new book (if no pre-publicity nudes, dammit!) and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy here. One of the super-cool things about being a journalist is that you can contact people whose work amazes you and say, “Come on my podcast!” and they almost always say, “Sure!”As did Michael Powell, one of my favorite journalists working today, currently at The Atlantic and previously at The New York Times, where, during the height of our national meltdown (aka 2020 to 2022), Michael took on subjects many of his colleagues and others in media would not touch: DEI, Title IX, and using identity as a scythe to cut down those deemed not the right color or gender or whose whose views were opportunistically seen as problematic. “We lost our bearings,” says Michael, who kept true to course, and to say his clear-eyed work made me feel less crazy is an understatement.Of deep value and delight is also his 2019 book, Canyon Dreams: A Basketball Season on the Navajo Nation. I felt as though I were living inside the work as I read, and I cannot wait to see Rez Ball, the movie it inspired and which opens September 27.Also discussed:* The explosive DNC protests that weren't* COVID would cool down the culture wars, right? [Insert laugh track here]* The “scurrilous piece of journalism” in the Daily Beast by a writer Nancy now admires** The firing of veteran New York Times science reporter Donald McNeil Jr.? “Not the best moment of the New York Times, at all.” * The tenderness and importance of Jihad Rehab (now retitled The UnRedacted) and the shame of Abigail Disney* “Hey Michael, you're white…”Plus, the permeability between worlds that you start to see when hanging in the Native world, the politician Michael always thought of as “a clown,” some high-tone hot boxes, and much more!Want to become a paid subscriber? Skoden!*Max Tani, now at SemaforCross-posted at Make More Pie

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“It's a Tuesday night in downtown Austin, and Joe Rogan is pretending to jerk off right in front of my face. The strangest thing about this situation is that millions of straight American men would kill to switch places with me.”With that on-fire of a lede, Helen Lewis explores the appeal of the world's top podcaster and, by extension, the city of Austin, to whence a platoon of self-proclaimed heterodox thinkers have decamped, in her latest essay for the Atlantic, where she's a staff writer. (Our own Sarah Hepola is interviewed for the piece.) Helen discusses the podcasts of the man-o-sphere, how Trump's conversations with Theo Von, et al, were like a chat show circuit for men, and her upcoming book, The Genius Myth.Also discussed:* That infamous Jordan Peterson interview * The time Helen was invited to Tucker Carlson's log cabin* “The male Oprah”* What is the “heterodoxy,” anyway?* Elon Musk is to Thomas Edison is to Prometheus* “Shit-posting has eaten the world”* Can a genius also nurse a baby?* The optimum age to be considered a genius is …* Teal Swan is not a good hombrePlus, Helen lives up to Sarah's idea of British stereotypes, Robin D'Angelo disappears, the mysteries of the corn dog, and much more!Does your IQ go up by 10 points when you become a paid subscriber? Listen and find outBefore you go! Home team represent. More info at Have I Got News For You

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah talk about a recent story in The Cut, “Was Casual Sex Always This Bad?” (Answer: Probably.) They discuss how subjective the phrase “good sex” is, but for both of them, the playfulness and abandon that makes sex one of life's great pleasures almost never comes after picking up a stranger at the open-bar wedding reception. (Although Nancy does have that one story.)Also discussed:* Silent discos* Pittsburghian slang* The TikTok sex video we want to see* The cinematic tyranny of people having sex against a wall* Consent: the starter manual for drunk college kids* Oof, blackout sex* Men regret sex, too* Swooning: it's a goal!* “Sex is not a thing you do, it's a place you go.”* A thing you should really, really not do to your teeth …Plus, the classic conspiracy film that made Sarah pretty sure everything is a lie, the brand-new podcast Nancy wants to shoot into her veins, the existential thrill of home renovation, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy talks about the protests outside Democratic National Convention, where the expected hordes did NOT show. After ten-plus years of fashionable dissent, have we moved beyond the activism moment? We discuss the limits and rewards of protest: big on catharsis, light on real change.Also on the docket:* Sarah's birthday bash at Nancy's* The secret sartorial life of Steve Kornacki* When pink was for boys …* “It's like masturbating when you can't get off.”* The man who will always be Sarah's president* When did the Dems hatch the Kamala plan? A debate!* Martin Luther King Jr. writes one hell of a letter* DON'T FORGET! Forty Bucks and a Dream available for pre-order

This week Nancy and Sarah riff on a fascinating essay in UnHerd by David Samuels, “The March of Kamala's Brides: Miserable young women are the Democrats' foot-soldiers.” The story lays out damning statistics on happiness and liberal women. They're childless, unmarried, on anti-depressants: Hey, Sarah ticks all the boxes!Nancy and Sarah try to diagnose how we got here. Their discussion covers vibrators and dating apps, Obamacare and social security, politics and the patriarchy, social justice and social media, pets vs. children, and the ocean of meaning that lies underneath the phrase, "I'm fine." Also discussed:* Nancy's new book Forty Bucks and a Dream now on presale!* Fifth Column live event tonight, WE SUPPORT OUR TROOPS.* When will Wikipedia acknowledge that Nancy dated Eddie Vedder?* Kneejerk Nancy asks, “Do I need to know everyone's effing feelings?”* Sarah asks, “If my cat is not a baby, why is he baby-shaped?”* The “compare and despair” trap of social media* Feminism and happiness: It's complicated!* Men on women's tears: It's annoying!* The whole SSRI thing* Fault vs. responsibility* WE MISS THE ‘90s* Camille Paglia, aka Sarah's fake Italian grandmother, brings us homeAlso: A (short) debate on Miranda July, how Andy Warhol turns out to be fascinating, Nancy drops a bomb about women's happiness and birth control — and MORE! This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah tackle the week's most controversial Olympics bout, when Algerian boxer Imane Khelif defeated Italian boxer Angela Carini in a 46-second fight. JK Rowling howled! JK Rowling-haters roared back at her! Has anyone ever cared this much about women's boxing?This actually isn't a story about trans women in sports — though it kicked up plenty of opinions about that subject — but a more nuanced discussion of how genetic abnormalities should play out in athletics. Our roving conversation covers:* DSD cases (Differences in sexual development)* Why is boxing called “the sweet science”?* The spectacle of women being hit —> kind of uncomfortable* Title IX was never intended to expand women's sports, but it did anyway* What kind of sports do girls want to play?* The golden age of female trick riders* Stella Walsh, early intersex Olympic champion* How much do men hate seeing women cry?* The old Italian woman who yells Sarah to sleep each night* But wait: What is a man?… and much more!REMINDER: First Sunday Zoom TONIGHT! 5pm PT/8pm ET. Check your email later today for link.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comAnn Bauer is a top-notch personal essay writer, who built a reputation for eloquence and honesty at Salon.com, back in the aughts when the site was still a cultural force. (Sarah was lucky enough to work with Ann back then.) More recently, Ann has become a spitfire on Twitter, where she's sounded off on COVID-related school closures, the progressive politics of Minneapolis, where she lives, and the various absurdities of our culture-war era.Nancy and Sarah had a far-ranging and often profound conversation with Ann: About what speaking her mind on social media cost her (professionally, personally), about the potential link between RenFests, polyamory, and Rachel Maddow, and about the son she lost a few years ago, whose autism diagnosis Ann now questions (along with many scientific “certainties”).Also discussed:* The ickiness of self-promotion* “You're trying to kill me and my family”* Getting dropped by the Washington Post* Bruno Bettelheim, somehow* Writing: It's all in the execution* Ann did NOT burn down Minneapolis's Third Precinct* The Stations of the Cross for Trump Derangement Syndrome* “Why are you dressed up as druids and maidens?”* Big love for Tablet Magazine* No love for an author who promotes autism as magic that makes you special* The Cinderella story of Kamala Harris* The lonely estrangement of the white male in culture* Writing about your own children: good? bad? both? all?* What is autism, really?Plus, people who should not wear leather, Sarah gets sucked into a classic 70s mini series, the coolness of Debbie Harry, and much more!

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comNancy and Sarah are back after a brief summer hiatus to talk about: white women for Kamala, “brat” and its aftermath, why Gen Z has so many slang terms for oral sex (or is that just our intern?), and how JD Vance radicalized childless cat ladies and prompted Twitter to make jokes about sex with a couch. America: It's going great! Note: This episode gets pretty blue, might want to keep it out of the little ones' earholes. Also discussed:* “Did I miss anything?” asks Sarah, after emerging from a literal cave in the desert.* Gen Z pop star Charli … MCM?!* Childless cat ladies were trending, and nobody called Sarah for a quote?!?* You say KOMM-uh-lah, I say Kuh-MAH-lah, let's call the whole thing off.* Trump avoiding an assassin's bullet was 60,000 news cycles ago. * The Kamala Harris prosecution that Nancy cannot get over* What is the sound of 100,000 white women clapping? * "I am here tonight, embracing myself in your incredible, profound white women midst, because we've got a fucking job to do, y'all” is a thing that was said.* Race essentialism + radical self-care = cringe-fest* Brat, cap, munch, throat goat: Nancy learns to speak Gen Z * That time Sub Pop Records trolled the New York Times* Did Elon Musk succeed in making Twitter a public square?* “Ass play is not my jam.”* Ben Shapiro for president?* Steve Kornacki will chase down that Snackwells truck* J.D. Vance, the punching bag for a post-assassination-attempt TrumpPlus, the wisdom of NOT talking politics, report cards on how Biden dipped, and that time Hemingway married an African woman when he was already married. We are here tonight, embracing ourselves in your incredible, profound audio-listener midst, because you've got a fucking subscription to pay, y'all

Nancy is in the woods, Sarah is in bed, where she does her best work, when they chat over the phone about the epic spectacle that was this week's Republican National Convention and the hot mess that is Democratic politics. “God is among us,” Tucker Carlson told the crowd, and the thing is: Nobody can fact-check God. Is it true? Is it false? No one can say. We're in the realm of belief, and in the days following Trump's assassination, what's clear is: People want to believe in him.Also discussed:* Bill Maher's double-fisting handjob Trump videos* Can Trump actually change?* “God is among us.”* Smoke Em's first sincere usage of the word “rizz”* Nancy rejects an organ!* Pretty women, walking down the stage* Make Kid Rock stop!* Trump, the grandpappy* Love for Semafor* Amber Rose, online avatar* Trump as king: Kissing the ring* Media feeds us shit sandwiches* In the future, will we all be Melania Trump?* RIP to the people we lost, the people we missThank you to the Baseball Hall of Fame Museum for letting Nancy tap into their WiFi and upload this episode. Also: Christy Mathewson has Nancy's vote This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comBiden on the ropes! What's the over-under on his time in the race? Who might replace him? Sarah and Nancy discuss the political theater of a broken system. What's the solution? Here's Nancy: “Let it fucking break, man.” Then, Alice Munro's daughter reveals family secrets that cast her mother and her writing in a troubling new light.Also discussed:* “Those Australians are so confused”* New word: Parkinsonism* As goes George Clooney, so goes the country …* Intervention time! Joe Biden, will you accept the help we're offering today?* Is Jon Stewart back?* Kamala Harris is Out Here in These Streets* What if we all write-in “Michelle Obama” for president …* Wes Moore = a super-sexy man, and also a governor* Nancy on how Joe Biden can bow out with dignity* Alice Munro's Runaway and a woman who can't leave her husband, hmm* Art Monsters* Joe Biden press conference: Sarah loses a betPlus: The spookiness of Joyce Carol Oates, the greatness of Citizen Kane, and — ahem — Nancy names a new hot box!REMINDER: First Sunday-Schmirst-Sunday, we're doing the monthly Zoom this week. Come hang! 8pm ET/5pm PT, July 14. Paid subscribers get a link the day of.We do the goodest we can. Become a paid subscriber.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThe hustle, the friendliness, the informality, the unshakeable faith that we can be anything we want to be — all while drinking Diet Coke and huffing donuts. Fuck yeah, America! In honor of July 4, Nancy and Sarah celebrate our country's bounty in the long shadow of all that is wrong. (For example: Presidential debate!) Nancy and Sarah can't quite decide: Is the American experiment over? Or does our scrappy country of constant reinvention have more time on the clock? Also discussed:* The freedom to not wear pants* Let Joe Biden rest!* Is Smoke Em podcast the Fireside Chats of 2024?* Free speech and great tits!* Morgan Spurlock, RIP* Diet Coke, a “horrible bath of ick” that we love* Sarah learns to free-style, drops a verse, immediately regrets this* America's greatest export is …* Sarah discovers she's average!* Name That Founding Father: The Pop QuizPlus, Nancy proves she's never seen Hamilton, how to make $1.08 last a decade, a history of oliebollen donuts, and more!Oh say can you see, it's the paid subscriber button.

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.comThe first Trump-Biden debate is hours away, and pundits are predicting along punditry lines (Trump gonna Trump! Biden's booster-packet will conk out midway!), including the only person to have debated both Trump and Biden opening a “What I'm watching for…” piece by telling us about the new Broadway play she's producing.But before we get to Hillary Rodham Clinton, we cite some odds out of Vegas, including whether the candidates will shake hands first, the length of Biden's longest pause, and how many times Trump will say “rigged.” Then it's on to the evergreen topic of who is having sex with whom, or in this case, who's not, unless it's with a mythical creature with a four-foot long magical tongue and a dick the size of a Coke-can. Don't ask, just listen.Also discussed:* The #1 new show on Netflix? Sarah's in it!* We love Jake Tapper* Who we want to see storm the debate stage* Competitive celibacy and the dick embargo* Dear god, enough with the women-only utopia* Yes, we do need people to have babiesPlus, Hair-flipping and booty-bumping, the time Sarah tried to edit Rick Springfield, and…All of the above and more, when you become a paid subscriber.

Nancy and Sarah are one-on-one today for a roving conversation that covers: Nancy's Portland story in a Nicholas Kristof NYT column about West Coast liberalism, a violation of privacy in the latest Free Beacon scoop, and revisiting the Gen X fever that was The Breakfast Club and St. Elmo's Fire.Also discussed:* Civics Bee!* In defense of plastic straws …* Purple states = the place to be* Keeping the memory of Rachael Abraham alive* West Coast liberalism, so bad even Nicholas Kristof admits it* Who cares what BuzzMuffin43 says, anyway?* Hepped Up, the fragrance * No cameras in our bedrooms, please!* She-Pee, denied* Which Brat Packer turned out best? * That weird tension between Andrew McCarthy and Emilio Estevez* Journalist, meet your disgruntled subject* John Hughes and British synth-popPlus, an emergency cookie recipe, some Demi Moore goddess love, a new media podcast that's doing it right, and more!This episode is free for all so share it with your friends.Learn about the world long before the NYT reports it. Become a paid subscriber.Episode Notes:“What Have We Liberals Done to the West Coast,” by Nicholas Kristof (New York Times Opinion)“A Murder in Portland,” by Nancy Rommelmann (Washington Examiner)“Columbia Administrators Fire Off Hostile and Dismissive Text Messages, Vomit Emojis During Alumni Reunion Panel on Jewish Life,” by Eliana Johnson and Aaron Sibarium (Washington Free Beacon)”Hollywood's Brat Park,” by David Blum (New York Magazine, 1985)“I Called Them Brats, and I Stand By It,” by David Blum (Vulture)Stories I Only Tell My Friends: An Autobiography, by Rob Lowe, highly recommended on audio!What's in your hot box?Sarah:Nancy: Horror Movie: A Novel, by Paul TremblayGot 20 minutes and $2.99? Read The Queens of Montague Street, “journalist Nancy Rommelmann's memoir of growing up in Brooklyn Heights in the 1970s, and excerpted in the New York Times Magazine as the essay, ‘Dazed and Confused.'”Outro suggests itself: This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com/subscribe

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit smokeempodcast.substack.com“Boys in crisis.” People write books about it. Melinda Gates just pledged $20 million to study it. Pundits make their bones rolling the phrase around in their mouths. But a crisis according to whom? Who profits when the American Psychological Society claims “traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful"? And is telling boys they must change, with those changes often determined by women, just another recipe for resentment?To find out whether boys will be boys, regardless of how often they're told not be, we went to the source: 17-year-old Milo Pesca, son of the Great Mike Pesca, host of The Gist podcast and broadcaster/thinker extraordinaire.On the table:* Milo's voice is like a warm blanket* Did Ann Curry draw swastikas in the school bathroom?* Women and their endless talking* Sarah's favorite mispronunciation* Can anyone define “toxic masculinity”?* Is vulnerability overrated?* Babysitter Maggie might have been going through some things* “I know I'm just a white dude …”* The land acknowledgment-ing of gender* “Girls Run the World,” or do they?* Male role models!* Watching boys is kind of cool* If men don't like to talk, what's up with those three-hour podcasts?* Paw Patrol: Threat or menace?!Also, how lazy idioms affect our thinking, and — stop the presses — Nancy and Sarah disagree on the quality they want in a man. Plus: Four hot boxes!