Podcast appearances and mentions of sarah cottrell

When leaving law feels like letting other people down, it can become much harder to take your own unhappiness seriously. For lawyers who are women, first-gen, people of color, or part of another historically underrepresented group, there can be a very real sense that being in these spaces is not just about them. Their achievement can start to feel tied to representing other people well and showing what is possible.The difficult part is that this sense of responsibility can mean having to get to a very bad place before being willing to prioritize yourself. Sarah sees lawyers whose experience at a law firm has been extremely detrimental to their mental, physical, emotional, and relational health, who still discount all of that and focus on the reasons they feel like they should stay. For people who are highly responsible, it can be very hard to value their own pain and suffering when they also feel responsible for what their leaving might mean for other people.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about her own experience of feeling like leaving her law firm meant letting other women down and why she sees versions of that same dynamic with her clients. She talks about the sense that your existence and achievement in these spaces are not just about you, how that can keep people going even when the experience is doing real harm, and why your own well-being deserves to matter too.0:29 - The pressure to stay when leaving feels like letting other people down1:05 - Feeling responsible to advance for other women in Biglaw3:00 - When your existence in the space feels like it's not just about you4:11 - Having to get to a very bad place before prioritizing yourself5:17 - Highly responsible lawyers struggling to value their own pain and suffering6:05 - You matter, your well-being matters, and you're not letting people down7:25 - Being unselfish to the point of doing harm to yourself to help others8:16 - The permission slip to take care of yourselfMentioned In When Leaving Law Feels Like Letting Other People DownFirst Steps to Leaving the Law1:1 Coaching with Sarah Cottrell

Your law job may feel more unsustainable than it used to, even if you were managing it fairly well before. Maybe you already knew the environment was not great, or that the work itself was never especially sustainable, but you were making it work. Now, all of a sudden, it feels completely impossible and you are wondering what changed.For a lot of lawyers, the instinct is to turn that question inward. Is it because you are weak? Is it because you cannot hack it anymore? Sarah talks about why being impacted by what is happening around you does not mean there is something wrong with you. If your nervous system is constantly being primed for threats and hypervigilance has become the baseline, it makes sense that you do not have the same capacity you had before.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why your law job may feel more unsustainable than it used to and what may actually be behind that shift. She explains how the broader environment can affect your nervous system, why lawyers in particular may be feeling that impact, and why listening to what your body and your nervous system are telling you can help you figure out what the best next step is for you career-wise.0:53 - When a law job that felt manageable starts to feel unsustainable1:44 - Why lawyers may be especially affected by what is happening around them2:29 - Feeling like you can't keep doing this doesn't mean you're weak4:12 - What your nervous system may be recognizing about your work environment6:00 - Hypervigilance as a baseline and how it affects your capacity7:10 - What to do when your work suddenly feels unsustainable8:31 - Listening to your body and nervous system as you consider what comes nextMentioned In Why Your Law Job Feels More Unsustainable Than It Used ToFirst Steps to Leaving the Law

“There's a reason they call it a job.” “If it was fun, everyone would do it.” “The grass isn't always greener.” Lawyers who hate their jobs hear some version of this all the time from people outside of the legal profession, usually when they are trying to explain just how miserable their work has become.There is a kernel of truth in the idea that every job involves some amount of work, frustration, and things you would rather not do. The problem is that every job does not suck in the way that being a lawyer can suck. For lawyers who have tied suffering to working hard or doing a good job, that distinction can be especially hard to see.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why “every job sucks” is bad advice for lawyers who hate their jobs, what can make legal work uniquely unpleasant, and why believing that suffering is simply part of having a job can make it harder to imagine something better.0:30 - Hearing “there's a reason they call it a job” from people outside the law2:01 - The kinds of misery that can make legal work uniquely unpleasant3:02 - Why every job does not suck in the way being a lawyer can4:42 - When lawyers start believing work is supposed to involve suffering5:49 - Questioning whether worthwhile work can exist without mental and emotional suffering6:25 - Using therapy to unpack the belief that suffering is part of working hard7:46 - You do not have to suffer in your job8:23 - Exploring what might be a better fit despite what other people sayMentioned In Why “Every Job Sucks” Is Bad Advice for Lawyers Who Hate Their JobsFirst Steps to Leaving the Law

When you start thinking about leaving the law, it is really common to realize that some of what you are trying to figure out is about your career and some of it goes much deeper than that. You may need help understanding what kind of work would actually be a good fit for you while also untangling why quitting feels so unsafe or why disappointing other people feels almost impossible.That is part of why therapy and career coaching can work so well together. They might both help you get to the same place, but they are not doing the same work, and one is not a substitute for the other. What comes up in coaching can be useful to take into therapy, and the insight you get in therapy can make it much easier to see what you actually want career-wise.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about the difference between therapy and career coaching, why she strongly recommends therapy if someone only has the bandwidth for one, and how the two can support each other as you work through what comes next.0:29 - Coaching versus therapy when you're trying to figure out what comes next2:06 - Why Sarah recommends therapy when you only have bandwidth for one2:51 - Therapy and career coaching are not substitutes for each other4:10 - How therapy and career coaching can work together5:13 - Using therapy to understand what shapes your ideas about work and career7:49 - Why quitting can feel unsafe and other people's disapproval can feel intolerable8:23 - Learning to tolerate disappointing people without assuming you've done something wrongMentioned In Do You Need Therapy or Career Coaching When You Want to Leave LawFirst Steps to Leaving the LawI'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time. Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

You can know that you do not want to keep practicing law and still have no idea what you want to do. You may not even know what you could do. A lot of lawyers assume they need to have some sense of the answer before they can start when the process is actually designed for people who are in exactly your position.Part of what makes figuring out what comes next so uncomfortable is that there is no assessment that gives you one answer. You have to get a clearer picture of who you are, pay attention to what you are genuinely interested in, and gather information about what different jobs are actually like. As you learn more, you refine what you are looking for, which can feel confusing when you are used to having a clear path to follow.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell walks through the Former Lawyer Framework and explains how she helps lawyers figure out what they want to do instead of practicing law. She talks about why the process starts well before resumes and LinkedIn, what makes the exploration stage so confusing, and how getting more information can help you identify work that is actually a better fit.0:27 - The Former Lawyer Framework for figuring out what to do when you do not want to practice law1:17 - Looking back at what brought you to law in the first place2:46 - Getting a clearer picture of who you are and what makes a job a good fit4:27 - Why assessments do not give you one answer about what to do next5:16 - Letting genuine interest guide which career options you explore8:55 - Refining your options when the process does not follow a clear path10:30 - Why resumes and LinkedIn come at the end of the process11:38 - Knowing you dislike your current job is enough to get started12:39 - Final enrollment details for the Former Lawyer CollaborativeMentioned In How to Figure Out What You Want to Do Instead of Practicing LawThe Former Lawyer CollaborativeFirst Steps to Leaving the LawI'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time. Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

After years in the law, it can be easy to believe that creativity simply is not part of who you are. Maybe you stopped making time for things you used to enjoy, or maybe you decided a long time ago that being artistic was not practical, serious, or something that fit with the kind of person who becomes a lawyer.That belief can shape more than what you do outside of work. It can also shut you off from whole groups of jobs because you think of them as jobs for creative people, and you do not see yourself as one of those people. Reconnecting with your creativity does not mean you need to become a working artist. It may just mean realizing that creativity is important to you and that you have been setting that part of yourself aside.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why so many lawyers say they are not artistic or creative, how legal work can leave people feeling stifled, and what can happen when creativity starts to bubble back up. She also talks about making room for that part of yourself, whether it changes the kind of work you want to do or simply helps you build a more fulfilling life.0:30 - Telling yourself that you are not artistic or creative1:10 - Learning that being an artist is not a realistic career path2:19 - Feeling stifled by the constraints on creativity in legal work3:28 - Realizing that being artistic or creative is important to you4:35 - Picking up old hobbies and reconnecting with creativity5:30 - Being afraid that recognizing your creativity will make you more dissatisfied6:40 - Cutting yourself off from an avenue for joy and fulfillment8:24 - Sarah's own experience of saying she was not artistic or creative9:38 - Making room for all the different parts of who you areMentioned In Reconnecting With Your Creativity After Years in the LawFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer CollaborativeI'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time. Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

If you have been thinking about joining the Former Lawyer Collaborative, now is the time. Enrollment is closing permanently on August 31, 2026, and while the program will remain open for another year, this is the last chance to join the community and work through the Former Lawyer Framework with Sarah's support.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why she decided to close the Collaborative, what members will still have access to through August 31, 2027, and where she plans to focus her work next. She also shares what the last few years have made even clearer to her about how important it is for unhappy lawyers to feel seen, understood, and less alone while they figure out what comes next.0:27 - Why enrollment in the Former Lawyer Collaborative is closing4:48 - How the Collaborative grew from a community into the Former Lawyer Framework6:57 - How AI and information overload changed Sarah's thinking about the future of Former Lawyer9:32 - When the Collaborative will close and why enrollment ends a year earlier10:14 - What members will still have access to through August 31, 202711:34 - What Sarah plans to focus on after the Collaborative ends14:52 - The importance of human connection for lawyers figuring out what comes nextMentioned In What's Next for the Former Lawyer CollaborativeYou Don't Have To Quit Your Job To Start Leaving Law The Former Lawyer CollaborativeCollab Plus One-on-One ProgramFirst Steps to Leaving the LawI'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time. Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

In legal practice, it is easy to start measuring yourself by whether you can cover every detail, do everything perfectly, and keep grinding through whatever is in front of you. If that is not the way you are wired, it can feel like there is something wrong with you, instead of recognizing that the job is rewarding a narrow set of behaviors.Alex Su describes this as game selection. In business roles, especially sales, marketing, and business development, success often depends on trying things, learning what works, moving on from what does not, and prioritizing the things that actually move the needle. The question becomes less about whether you can fix yourself into a better lawyer and more about whether you are playing the right game for your strengths.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with returning guest Alex Su about what lawyers need to understand when they move out of practice and into business roles. They talk about why legal training can make that shift feel uncomfortable, how performance-based work rewards a different kind of resilience, and why the right role can make strengths visible that law may have treated like problems.1:43 - Alex's move from practicing law into a business career in the legal space3:55 - Why business roles reward a different skill set than legal practice5:49 - The comfort of hours worked and why the shift to ROI can feel difficult7:21 - What changes when the goal is producing outcomes instead of putting in more hours9:15 - Why experimentation requires a different relationship with failure10:28 - How perfectionism can become counterproductive in performance-based roles13:05 - When traits that are treated like problems in law can work well elsewhere14:54 - Alex's idea of game selection and choosing the right role for your strengths21:08 - What Latitude partners do after leaving the practice of law24:22 - Why business roles require ruthless prioritization27:10 - The kind of resilience that business roles require30:33 - How legal practice moralizes failure in a way other roles often do not33:56 - Why a successful pivot requires knowing yourself and staying a student36:34 - Head intelligence, instinct, and emotional intelligence in non-practicing roles39:39 - Alex's advice for lawyers considering a pivot to sales, business development, or businessMentioned In How Lawyers Can Rethink Their Skills for Business with Alex SuFrom Biglaw to Legal Tech with Alex SuAlex Su's SubstackAlex Su on LinkedInLatitude Legal | Legal Partner Job PostingFirst Steps to Leaving the LawFormer Lawyer CollaborativeI'm closing enrollment for my self-paced group program, the Former Lawyer Collaborative, permanently on August 31st, 2026. If you've been thinking about joining now is the time. Head to formerlawyer.com/collab to join before doors close on August 31st.

Leaving the law when you're already burned out can feel impossible, because the job you need energy to escape is the same job draining all of your energy. You may understand that you need to figure out what comes next, but when you are scraping by energetically, even one more task can feel like too much.That is where a lot of burned out lawyers get stuck. They assume that if they do not have hours and hours each week, whole weekends, or a huge amount of bandwidth to put toward leaving the law, then they cannot make any real progress. But Sarah talks about why consistency matters more than massive amounts of time, especially when everything already feels hard.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about leaving the law when you are already burned out, why the process may require less weekly time than you think, how bridge jobs can create relief, and when mental health leave may be worth considering.0:27 - Leaving the law when you are already burned out1:09 - The question burned out lawyers ask when they know they need to figure out what comes next3:14 - Why career change does not require five or ten hours a week4:54 - How bridge jobs can help burned out lawyers get relief6:51 - Why mental health leave exists and when lawyers should consider it8:43 - What to remember if you are leaving the law while already burned outMentioned In Leaving the Law When You're Already Burned OutTake Mental Health Leave Of Absence From Your Law FirmBurnout In Lawyers With Ilona SalmonsSigns Of Lawyer Burnout - What Lawyers Need To KnowFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Going to law school felt like the right call. For some lawyers it felt like the obvious call, backed up by experience, by personality, by everything they knew about themselves at the time. So when practicing law turns out to be a bad fit, the harder part is that the decision felt so right going in. If they were wrong about something they were that sure about, how can they trust themselves to choose anything else?That fear is what keeps so many lawyers where they are, even when staying is actively hurting them. For lawyers trained by a profession that treats every mistake like malpractice, it doesn't take much to go from "I might choose wrong" to "I should never choose at all."In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with returning guest Kelcey Baker about what it actually looks like to make career moves that don't go as planned, how Kelcey navigated leaving two law firms and eventually launching a consulting business, why the idea that you only get one shot at a career change keeps lawyers stuck, and what changes when you stop trying to make the perfect decision and start making any decision at all.1:28 - The fear of making a mistake and choosing something that's even worse than where you are now2:59 - Kelcey's first "did I make a huge mistake" moment and why it wasn't law school6:25 - How realizing law is a bad fit damages your ability to trust yourself to make career decisions9:24 - Why lawyers who worked as paralegals before law school often feel an extra layer of self-blame11:19 - The "I should have known" trap and why you couldn't have known what you didn't experience14:35 - How the experience of a bad fit impacts the next career decision and the one after that17:40 - Why most people who go to law school were too young to have done the inner work of knowing themselves19:17 - Why punishing your younger self for not knowing what you know now keeps you stuck20:57 - The pressure to find the capital-T Thing and how fear of judgment keeps lawyers in jobs that are hurting them30:48 - The binary thinking that makes it feel like you're either a lawyer or you're nothing33:33 - How Kelcey built a consulting business by combining what she was good at with what she actually liked36:02 - Why perfectionist, eldest-daughter types forget they're resourceful enough to figure it out41:03 - You will be okay, and if the next thing isn't right either, you can keep going43:46 - Bridge jobs, lily pad jobs, and why it doesn't have to be forever to be worth doingMentioned In Making a Career Change When You're Afraid of Getting It Wrong with Kelcey BakerKelcey Baker on LinkedInValidation: An Incredible Tool for Unhappy Lawyers with Kelcey BakerStartling Parallels Between Narcissism In Law Firms And Family UnitsHow Law Firms Avoid All Responsibility for Toxic Environments with Kelcey BakerLawyers - Hoping To Be Hit By A Bus Isn't NormalFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Somewhere along the way, most lawyers picked up the idea that once you commit to something, you follow through. No exceptions. So when the thought of leaving starts to surface, it doesn't feel like a career question. It feels like there's something shameful about admitting your original decision was wrong.But the decision to become a lawyer was made at a specific age, with a specific amount of information. The lived experience of actually practicing law is new information. And in almost any other context, no one would question whether you should update a decision when the information changes.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why so many lawyers feel ashamed of wanting to change their minds, where that "don't be a quitter" conditioning comes from, why it takes maturity to look at your decisions and choose something different, and why therapy is often the best place to start untangling all of it.0:30 - The shame lawyers feel about changing their minds and where it comes from1:04 - How the decision to leave becomes tangled with feeling "wrong" about the original choice2:10 - The decision to become a lawyer was made with limited information at a specific age3:14 - Why lawyers don't apply the "new information" standard to their own experience4:00 - The "don't be a quitter" conditioning and how good-student types absorb it7:55 - Holding your past self to a standard no human can be held toMentioned In The Shame Lawyers Feel About Wanting to Leave LawFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Lawyers who know they want to leave often get stuck in the same place. Not because they don't want to move, but because they're waiting to feel certain about what comes next. Sarah Cottrell sees lawyers who won't make a move until they have a new 20-year plan with an absolute guarantee, and while they're waiting for that, nothing changes.Zach Reisch didn't have a master plan when he left commercial litigation. He had a spouse building a business, a growing sense that law just wasn't compatible with who he was, and a willingness to try something before he knew whether it would work. What he found was something Sarah talks about often but lawyers tend to resist. Clarity follows action.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks with Zach about what made him realize Biglaw wasn't a fit and how anxiety made it difficult to tell the difference between something being scary and something being wrong, what it was actually like to go from litigation to personal training and small business ownership, and why tying your identity to achievement doesn't go away just because you change jobs.1:27 - Why law school felt like a decent fit but practicing law did not3:51 - Getting exactly one Biglaw offer and choosing commercial litigation without knowing what it would be like7:29 - How anxiety made it hard to separate "this is uncomfortable" from "this is wrong for me"8:33 - Why lawyers think they should be able to think their way through a nervous system response12:11 - Still having nightmares about his law job and the identity crisis of feeling like he was failing13:14 - What actually helped was the podcast, therapy, and talking to anyone who wasn't a lawyer16:58 - Why clarity follows action and how waiting for a perfect plan keeps lawyers stuck20:29 - Why individual interaction was the missing piece in his desire to help people22:46 - The practical realities of becoming a personal trainer as a second career29:19 - Why tying your identity to achievement doesn't go away just because you leave law33:51 - Being willing to try something without knowing if it's going to workMentioned In From Commercial Litigator to Personal Trainer and Business Owner with Zach ReischRozzie FitnessFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

When lawyers start thinking about doing something else, the first thing they reach for is almost always the resume. It feels like real progress. It produces something tangible. And for lawyers who are used to having clear work product, that matters a lot.What actually happens is the opposite. You sit down to revise it, you stare at a bunch of legalese you wrote years ago, and within an hour you've convinced yourself you have no transferable skills and should probably just quit and stay in the law forever. That's not because the skills aren't there. It's because there's nothing to translate them toward yet.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell explains why revising your resume is actually one of the last steps in a lawyer career change, and what she has people start with instead. She talks about why trying to write 27 different resumes for 27 possible roles is a waste of time, why values are the real starting point, and why most lawyers who try to start with the resume end up more discouraged than when they began.0:44 - Revising your resume is the worst place to start2:29 - Knowing what you're targeting is what makes the resume easy5:10 - What actually works when you go to revise the resume6:32 - Values are the first part of the framework inside The Collab8:56 - Don't start with your resume, start with values and therapyMentioned In Translating Legal Skills for a Non-Legal Job Doesn't Start With Your ResumeHow To Revise Your Resumé For A Non-Legal JobBreak Into Legal Tech and AI as a Lawyer with Ben ChiribogaFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

On paper, Amy Terwilleger's life as a lawyer looked great. Partner at a regional firm in Florida. Deputy general counsel. Thirteen years of business litigation. Married with two kids. And the whole time, a constant restless feeling she could not shake.What Amy eventually figured out was that she was living somebody else's perfect life. The things that mattered to her, her values, the way she thought, and who she actually was as a person were not showing up in the life she was actually living.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with Amy about what it looked like to be a Biglaw partner whose values did not match her job, why being a free thinker is not rewarded at a big firm, what finally moved her to make a change, and how she ended up working as a sex and relationship coach while still practicing law on her own terms.1:34 - Why Amy went to law school after restaurant management and the LSAT-as-decision-maker pattern2:33 - Wanting to help people through law and how recruiting funneled her into business litigation instead4:51 - The conveyor belt and why the realities of practice diverge from what brings people to law school7:48 - Why being a free thinker is not rewarded at a big firm8:48 - On paper everything looked perfect, partner, deputy general counsel, two kids, and the constant restless feeling underneath9:54 - Neurodivergence, the strong sense of justice, and why these traits do not get rewarded in big firms13:16 - Where Amy's values clashed with the actual work of business litigation18:06 - Why "just don't care" is not actually possible when someone is being rude and disrespectful20:19 - Pleasure as the body's antidote to stress and how it resets the nervous system22:43 - The early seed of wanting to be a sex coach and why Amy tucked it away for years25:38 - The reactions Amy got from colleagues, friends, and family when leaving Biglaw29:16 - You do not have to leave law entirely, you can find a way to practice that aligns with your values33:22 - What Amy recommends if you are curious about coaching as a career34:00 - What sex and relationship coaching actually is and who Amy works withMentioned In Leaving Biglaw to Become a Sex and Relationship Coach with Amy TerwillegerAmy Terwilleger's Website | LinktreeAmy Terwilleger on Instagram (@millennialdrruth)First Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

If you're thinking about leaving the law, there's a good chance you've asked yourself some version of this question. Am I justified in doing this? You already know the environment isn't good for you. You already know something needs to change. But there's a sense that you need some kind of external sign-off before you can actually go, and until that shows up, you keep waiting.The waiting itself is part of what's keeping you there. The need to feel justified is almost always external, and it's often the same pattern that got you into law in the first place. Looking outside yourself for confirmation that you're on the right path, instead of trusting what you already know about your own experience.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why so many lawyers ask whether they're justified in leaving, where that question actually comes from, and what it costs you to keep waiting for someone else to validate what you already feel. Sarah also covers why this is a skill worth building before you figure out what's next and where therapy fits into the work of untangling it.0:29 - The question that comes up most often when lawyers think about leaving the law1:02 - Why there is always someone who has it worse and why that keeps lawyers stuck1:55 - Why the struggle to feel justified in leaving is fundamentally external2:35 - "Am I justified in leaving" is really a question about who gets to say3:55 - Why so many lawyers cannot trust their own experience4:38 - What you actually need to access to find something better5:57 - Why this needs to be your choice and not something you wait for permission to do6:32 - The skill you are going to be developing as you move out of the law7:56 - What it tells Sarah when she hears lawyers asking if they are justified in leavingMentioned In Trying to Justify Leaving Law Is What's Keeping You ThereFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

There are two very different situations a lawyer can be in when they start thinking about leaving. One is a job that is actively damaging their mental, physical, and emotional health. The other is a job that is just not the long-term answer. What you do to tolerate either one while you're preparing to leave is going to look pretty different.The lawyers who come to Sarah after making a move that did not work out are usually the ones who waited until they were close to leaving to start thinking about what they actually wanted to do next. By then, there is not much time left for the reflection that process requires.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about how to tell which situation you're in, why a bridge job is often the right move if your environment is genuinely toxic, and what lawyers in less extreme situations can be doing right now to make the time they're still there feel useful instead of stuck.0:56 - What a bridge job actually does when you're in a toxic environment2:23 - Why "tolerating" your job never means staying somewhere that's damaging you3:24 - Being realistic about your timeline and what the work actually looks like4:11 - How long the Collab framework typically takes when you give it a couple hours a week5:16 - Why the day you can leave is not the day to start figuring out what's next6:14 - What makes tolerating your job easier while you're preparing to leave7:40 - What to do if you see yourself leaving eventually but not soon9:15 - Why giving yourself time instead of rushing is one of the best uses of your time in a lawyer jobMentioned In Tolerating Your Lawyer Job While You're Preparing to LeaveDo You Need a Bridge Job? Key Questions for Lawyers in TransitionFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Legal tech comes up constantly when lawyers are thinking about leaving practice. It's legal adjacent, the field is growing, and there seem to be a lot of jobs. But when lawyers actually try to make a move, they usually don't know where to start. The roles aren't standardized, the titles don't mean the same thing across companies, and it's hard to know where a legal background even fits in.Ben Chiriboga figured this out the hard way. He spent two years after leaving practice chasing legal tech roles without any real direction, burned through his savings, and eventually found his path, going on to become a founding team member of a legal tech startup. Now he runs Reframe Lawyer, a platform built specifically to help lawyers move into legal tech and AI careers.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with Ben about the three main career tracks available to lawyers in legal tech and AI, why a JD is a bigger competitive advantage than most lawyers think, and why figuring out who you are and what you want has to happen before anything else.0:52 - Ben Chiriboga on founding Reframe Lawyer and his path from practice to legal tech2:27 - Why legal tech keeps coming up for lawyers who want to leave practice4:07 - No agreed terms, no standardized titles, and what that means for your job search4:45 - You're not alone in being confused about where to start in legal tech9:17 - The three main career paths in legal tech and AI for lawyers leaving practice11:41 - Product roles and why lawyers are better positioned for them than they think13:00 - Go-to-market roles and why a JD is a competitive advantage in sales conversations13:48 - Why operations roles are booming inside legal tech companies right now15:13 - JD required vs. JD preferred and what your legal background signals to employers17:55 - Why lawyers automatically rank in the top 1% of candidates for legal tech jobs24:52 - Why lawyers try to execute before they know their objective30:25 - Why applying for every legal tech role is a recipe for madness35:37 - How to speak to a role you've never held and start building proof of interest39:38 - Why updating your resume is the last thing you should do42:24 - Ben's closing take on legal tech as a viable career path for lawyers ready to make a moveMentioned In How to Break Into Legal Tech and AI as a Lawyer with Ben ChiribogaReframe Lawyer | Ben Chiriboga on LinkedInEscaping Lawyer Burnout for Legal Tech with Ben ChiribogaHow To Revise Your Resumé For A Non-Legal JobFrom Biglaw to Legal Tech with Alex SuThe Claude-Native Law Firm by Zack ShapiroFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Responsibility is one of the things that makes lawyers good at their jobs. It also shows up, over and over, as one of the things that makes it hardest for them to leave. Not because they don't want to go, but because leaving means someone else has to pick up the work. And for a lawyer who is wired around responsibility, that can feel like something they're just not willing to do.What Sarah sees with her clients is that the sense of responsibility doesn't stay proportional. It ends up putting so much weight on what other people might have to deal with that a lawyer's own mental, physical, and emotional well-being barely registers in the calculation. Toxic environments are especially good at making this worse.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why responsibility shows up so consistently in her clients' assessment results, what happens when it becomes overdeveloped, and why it makes it hard for lawyers to even let themselves think about leaving.1:28 - How responsibility shows up in CliftonStrengths, VIA, and the Enneagram3:01 - What Sarah sees with lawyers whose jobs aren't good for them4:26 - Why highly responsible lawyers struggle to give themselves permission to even think about leaving5:07 - What an overdeveloped sense of responsibility actually means6:03 - How toxic environments exploit lawyers who are highly responsible7:28 - The faulty logic that keeps highly responsible lawyers from cutting themselves any slack9:18 - Why it matters to know if responsibility is one of your top characteristicsMentioned In How an Overdeveloped Sense of Responsibility Keeps Lawyers StuckFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

For a lot of lawyers, hearing "just do your best" as a kid didn't feel reassuring. It felt like a requirement to give every ounce of everything they had until there was literally nothing left.That's not incidental. The kind of person who interprets "do your best" that way is often exactly the kind of person who ends up becoming a lawyer. And that standard follows them.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about what that standard is actually costing lawyers who want to make a change, and why doing B-minus work might be worth considering.1:00 - What "do your best" actually means if you're wired like a lawyer1:56 - Why caring about doing good work makes this harder3:56 - The B-minus work concept and why it matters4:37 - Why this is harder for lawyers from marginalized communities5:04 - How loosening that standard makes space for other things5:24 - Why therapy is worth considering if this resonatesMentioned in What Doing Your Best Is Costing You as a LawyerFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Lawyers thinking about leaving often get stuck on a question that feels practical but actually keeps them waiting longer than they need to. Do I need to quit my job before I start figuring out what I want to do instead? It sounds responsible, but for most people, it's part of what keeps them in a holding pattern.Sarah Cottrell frequently gets this question from lawyers considering The Former Lawyer Collaborative, and her answer might change how you think about the timing of your next move. She explains why the assumption that you need to be "ready" before you start often works against you, and what she's seen actually happen when people stop waiting.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah talks about why she built The Collab to fit inside the life of a working lawyer, what the time commitment really looks like, and why the lawyers who start before they feel ready often surprise themselves.0:28 - The practical question lawyers keep asking before joining The Collab0:53 - What The Former Lawyer Collaborative actually is and how it works1:38 - Do you need to quit your job before starting this process2:25 - How people find The Collab and when they typically join2:57 - Why less pressure to leave can actually mean faster progress3:29 - The time commitment question and what "a couple hours a week" really gets you5:15 - Other reasons you might quit, and why most people in The Collab don't6:23 - Why The Collab was designed to fit inside a lawyer's life7:06 - How to join and where to find more infoMentioned In You Don't Have to Quit Your Job to Start Leaving LawFive Years of Helping Lawyers Leave the Law inside The Former Lawyer CollaborativeFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Lawyers who are unhappy at work often tell themselves they'll feel things later. When they retire, maybe. The sense is that feeling the full weight of what's happening would make it impossible to keep functioning, so the feelings get pushed down and the grinding continues.The problem is that feelings aren't actually optional. The physical sensations that come with emotional states are nervous system responses, not choices. Suppressing them doesn't make them go away. They get smashed down until the nervous system forces the issue, regardless.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks about why lawyers operate as though their feelings are optional, where that belief comes from, and what it costs them over time. She covers how to start noticing whether this is happening to you, why irritation at other people's feelings is a flag worth paying attention to, and why therapy is often the most effective place to start unraveling something that didn't develop overnight.0:53 - Why so many lawyers believe their feelings are optional2:13 - Why feelings are nervous system responses and not actually a choice2:48 - Where the belief that feelings are optional comes from and how it gets reinforced4:16 - "I'll feel things when I retire" and why this is probably how you're functioning even if you'd never say it out loud6:19 - What happens when the nervous system finally says no and why it goes the way it does7:21 - How to notice if you're treating your feelings as optional and why irritation at other people's feelings is a flag8:44 - Why therapy is especially useful here and what to do if this resonatedMentioned In Why Lawyers Think Feelings Are Optional and What It Costs ThemWhy High-Achieving Lawyers Stay in Jobs That Are Hurting ThemFirst Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Being good at your job and being in the right job are not the same thing. For lawyers who are high achievers, that distinction can be almost impossible to see when every external signal, strong reviews, steady advancement, a reputation for getting things done, is telling you that you must be in the right place.That disconnect often has roots in neurodiversity or trauma history. Both can produce someone who is exceptionally good at pushing through, sublimating their own needs, and performing under conditions that are genuinely harmful to their mental, physical, and emotional health. And because the external picture looks fine, it can be very hard to see.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell walks through why this happens, how ADHD, PTSD, and CPTSD can all factor in, why the belief that achievement equals worth makes it so hard to let go even when something is hurting you, and why therapy is such an important part of unraveling it.0:30 - Why lawyers who are high achievers can be good at something that is not sustainable for them1:28 - The "I can do this so I should do this" trap and why external markers are not the whole picture3:24 - How ADHD brains create urgency to initiate tasks and what that costs your nervous system4:28 - Why doing well as a lawyer can feel like proof you are meant to stay5:16 - How PTSD and CPTSD factor in and why so many lawyers are highly adapted to deal with difficult conditions6:43 - How perfectionism develops as a survival strategy and why it follows lawyers into their careers7:41 - The belief that you are only valuable when you are achieving and why it makes it so hard to leave8:36 - Why therapy matters so much for lawyers who are high achievers thinking about leaving10:01 - What Sarah wants you to know if the job is crushing you but you feel like you have to stayMentioned In Why High-Achieving Lawyers Stay in Jobs That Are Hurting ThemSigns of Malignant Narcissism in the Legal Profession [TFLP 127]Does Being a Lawyer Lead to ADHD? Unpacking the Relationship with Annie Little [TFLP206]First Steps to Leaving the LawThe Former Lawyer Collaborative

Lawyers are, as a group, highly responsible, hard on themselves, and convinced they should be able to handle more than anyone else around them. That combination does not just make for a stressful career. It makes it genuinely difficult to acknowledge that something is wrong, let alone do anything about it.That is where perfectionism becomes a trap. When you hold yourself to a standard you would never apply to anyone else, leaving starts to feel like weakness, or like you are abandoning the people around you. The result is that lawyers who are deeply miserable keep going, often until their body forces the issue for them.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell breaks down why this kind of perfectionism is more common than most lawyers want to admit, where it comes from, and why recognizing it is one of the most important things you can do if you are thinking about leaving law.1:03 — Why being highly responsible and hard on yourself feels like humility but isn't2:04 — Why holding yourself to a higher standard than everyone else is actually about ego3:02 — The vacuum-sealed pod problem and why "everyone makes mistakes" doesn't feel true about you6:01 — How this mindset makes it hard to leave, from feeling like you're abandoning people to telling yourself you're just weak7:35 — How to know if you're this person and what it actually costs you9:17 — Why therapy is worth bringing this up in, even if Sarah's framing annoys you10:31 — What happens when lawyers don't let themselves leave until their body forces the issue11:48 — What to actually sit with if this episode resonatedMentioned In The Perfectionist Trap That Makes It Hard to Leave LawFirst Steps to Leaving the Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative

For lawyers who know they are unhappy but are not ready to make any real moves yet, the waiting period can feel like dead time. There are things you can be doing right now, though, that will set you up for success when you are ready to go through the process of figuring out what comes next.One of those things is reconnecting with a hobby. Not in a hardcore, train-for-a-marathon way, but in a small, low-stakes way that starts to rebuild the muscle of knowing what you actually like and what actually feels good to you. That skill, knowing what you want and acting on it, is one of the most important things you can develop when it comes time to figure out what your next career looks like.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell walks through why hobbies matter more than most unhappy lawyers would expect, how to think about starting small, and why reconnecting with the things that bring you joy makes it easier to leave when you are ready.0:02 — What you can do right now to set yourself up for leaving law, even before you're ready0:56 — Why hobbies matter for lawyers thinking about a career change1:11 — How work crowds out everything else and why that's so common for unhappy lawyers1:54 — The grocery and dry cleaning hobby era (you are not alone)2:23 — How reconnecting with what you like helps you figure out what career actually fits you3:25 — Why this works even if you're not close to leaving and don not have much time3:33 — What starting small actually looks like and why going all in is not the point6:00 — Rituals, rhythms, and reminding yourself you are a person and not a machine7:25 — The bonus benefit of hobbies that involve other people when you are thinking about leaving law8:27 — The real skill you are building and why it matters for your lawyer career changeMentioned In Why Unhappy Lawyers Should Pick Up a Hobby Before They're Ready to LeaveFirst Steps to Leaving the Law The Former Lawyer Collaborative

  Are you in a toxic job, but feel stuck? Making great money but feel absolutely dead inside? If yes, then this episode of Career Unicorns - Spark Your Joy is for you.   Join us as we welcome Sarah Cottrell, founder of Former Lawyer LLC, who helps unhappy lawyers ditch soul-crushing jobs for fulfilling alternative careers. Sarah shares her expertise on the unique pain of leaving a high-prestige career.   We dive deep into how to recognize the signs of an abusive workplace and the importance of prioritizing your mental health.   In this episode, you'll learn: Why the prestige trap and sunk cost fallacy keep people in miserable, high-paying jobs. How gaslighting and narcissistic behavior from bad bosses lead to workplace PTSD, GAD, and panic disorder. Why leaving a toxic job is like leaving an abusive relationship, and how to start the necessary grieving process. The critical role of calming your nervous system to do the deeper work of envisioning a sustainable career. Why working with both a career coach and a therapist is the most efficient path to a successful transition. The importance of reminding yourself that you are not crazy, and your feelings are real.  Key strategies for feeling less stuck and building a thriving career that aligns with your values.   Connect with us: Learn more about our guest, Sarah Cottrell, at www.formerlawyer.com.  Follow our host, Samorn Selim, on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/samornselim/. Get a copy of Samorn's book, Career Unicorns™ 90-Day 5-Minute Gratitude Journal: An Easy & Proven Way To Cultivate Mindfulness, Beat Burnout & Find Career Joy, at https://tinyurl.com/49xdxrz8.  Ready for a career change?  Schedule a free 30-minute build your dream career consult by sending a message at www.careerunicorns.com.   

The first year after leaving law is a strange mix of freedom and fatigue. There is relief in stepping away from billable hours, but the exhaustion runs deeper than expected. Sarah Cottrell hears it constantly from clients. They imagined a clean break. Instead, it feels like living in a body still bracing for impact.At first there's quiet. The noise of practice fades, and breathing feels easier. Then comes the question no one expects. What now? For years the answer was always clear. Get through the case. Close the deal. Survive the week. Outside that system, there's no obvious next step, only space that feels both exciting and uncertain.Sarah describes the first year as less about reinvention and more about recovery. It's about realizing how much the profession shaped your sense of worth and how long it takes to stop living like every moment has to be optimized.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/285

Ever feel trapped in the cycle where one week you swear you have to get out of law, and the next you convince yourself it isn't so bad? That back-and-forth isn't clarity, it's burnout and fear of judgment keeping you stuck. In this episode, Sarah Cottrell breaks down how to recognize the outrage complacency cycle and what it takes to finally step out of it. Join Sarah for a free live masterclass on October 10, Five Simple Steps to Identify a Career You Actually Like.Sign up at formerlawyer.com/masterclass.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/284

Many lawyers, when they stop and reflect, realize that one of the reasons they went to law school was to impress other people. Prestige mattered. But the moment they name it, the shame sets in — “That was a bad reason. I shouldn't care what others think.” Sarah Cottrell pushes back on that belief, reminding lawyers that caring about opinions is normal and human. In this episode, she shares how caring becomes a problem only when it outweighs your own needs, especially if you're considering leaving the law. You'll hear how to notice when you've given outside voices too much power, how to decide whose opinions really matter, and why therapy can help you find the right balance. If guilt or fear of judgment has been keeping you stuck, this conversation will help you put those concerns in perspective.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/283

Biglaw has a cowardice problem, and it's more visible than ever. In this episode, Sarah Cottrell breaks down how toxic law firm culture grooms and rewards leaders who prioritize self-preservation over real change. From the recent DEI rollbacks to everyday office dynamics, Sarah explains why cowardice thrives in Biglaw and how it impacts more than just the lawyers trapped inside these firms. If you're feeling stuck in a toxic workplace or questioning whether it's time to leave, this conversation will give you clarity—and your first steps toward getting out.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/271

Sarah Cottrell, founder of the Former Lawyer Podcast, discusses the challenges and identity struggles that lawyers often face, the misconceptions surrounding the legal profession, and the importance of exploring alternative career paths. Sarah shares her journey from practicing law to becoming an entrepreneur and offers valuable insights for lawyers seeking fulfillment outside traditional legal practice. Tune in to gain insights into the nuances of being a lawyer and the importance of setting boundaries.Lawyer Side HustlesSarah is the founder of the Former Lawyer Podcast, a platform dedicated to helping lawyers who are unhappy in their careers explore alternative paths and find fulfillment outside of the legal profession. Through her podcast, Sarah interviews former lawyers who have successfully transitioned into different careers, providing listeners with real-life examples and inspiration. She also offers coaching programs, such as the Former Lawyer Collaborative, where lawyers can join a community, access a curriculum, and receive guidance on navigating career transitions."I create things that I wish I had when I was in a place that was not good," explains Sarah Cottrell in Episode 117 of You Are a Lawyer.Sarah's mission is to break the stigma around leaving the legal profession and to empower lawyers to pursue work that aligns with their values and passions. She has practiced law for ten years and understands the challenges and pressures that lawyers face. Sarah's approach is rooted in empathy and understanding, as she helps lawyers navigate the process of self-discovery and find clarity in their career paths. Through her podcast and coaching programs, Sarah provides a supportive and informative space for lawyers to explore their options and make meaningful career changes.LISTEN TO LEARNSome of the myths of big lawWhy therapy is essential for self-discoveryHow to transition from lawyer to entrepreneurWE ALSO DISCUSSThe narrow ideas of achievement and career pathsAlternative career choices for lawyersHow law school can sometimes limit self-expressionJoin the FREE mailing list!Get behind-the-scenes content from You Are A Lawyer. 1) Visit www.youarealawyer.com2) Add your email address to the Subscribe pop-up box OR3) Enter your email address on the right side of the screen4) Get emails from me (I won't fill your inbox with junk)!Interact with You Are A LawyerKyla Denanyoh hosts the You Are A Lawyer podcast. Follow the podcast:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@youarealawyerWebsite: https://www.youarealawyer.com

If you feel like all you do is complain about your job, you're not alone. Many lawyers reach a point where they're exhausted, not just by their work, but by how much they talk about how miserable it makes them.In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell addresses what happens when you reach that breaking point. She explains why you don't have to wait until you can leave your job to start making a change, and how taking small steps now can set you up for the future, whether you're leaving in a few months or a few years.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/262

Many lawyers contemplating leaving the profession assume the process is complicated. The reality? It's actually very simple. But that doesn't mean it's easy. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell breaks down the difference between something being simple but difficult versus complicated but easy, and how this applies to leaving the law. The truth is, figuring out what's next isn't complex, but doing the work to make a change is hard. That's why she created The Former Lawyer Collab because even though the steps are clear, having support and guidance can make all the difference. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/260

Sarah Cottrell talks with Amisha DeYoung-Dominguez, a former lawyer who transitioned into public service, on this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast.Amisha, now a congressional staffer, shares her winding journey through law school, legal aid, and government work—ultimately realizing that practicing law wasn't the right fit. Her story highlights the struggle many lawyers face, the pressure to stay in the profession despite clear signs it isn't working. Through The Former Lawyer Collab, Amisha found the clarity and support she needed to make the leap into a fulfilling new career.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/258

Many former lawyers who stepped away from their careers to be stay-at-home parents eventually find themselves wondering how to re-enter the workforce—without going back to practicing law. On this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, host Sarah Cottrell addresses this exact challenge, breaking down the key steps for making the transition while avoiding the pressure to return to legal practice.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/257

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell gets real about why so many Millennials feel stuck in the pursuit of success. As an elder Millennial herself, she unpacks the pressures lawyers face to maintain a certain lifestyle or salary—pressures that often come from family expectations, societal norms, and internalized beliefs about what success “should” look like.Sarah shares personal insights, client stories, and some hard questions to help you rethink whether the life you're chasing actually aligns with your values. She also dives into how therapy can play a game-changing role in breaking free from the “success trap” and building a life that works for you.If you've ever found yourself feeling trapped by career expectations or the idea that you're supposed to suffer to succeed, this episode is for you. You don't have to settle for burnout—there's a way forward.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/256

This episode includes an important content warning for discussions of narcissism, narcissistic abuse, self-harm, and suicidality. This week on The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell welcomes back her client Kelcey Baker for a powerful conversation about the distressingly common experience among lawyers of wishing for a minor injury—like being hit by a bus—just to get a break from work. Kelcey and Sarah dive deep into the toxic environments in the legal profession that normalize extreme stress and emotional distress while discouraging vulnerability and self-care. They explore the systemic issues in law firms that create these harmful dynamics and why addressing the environment, not the individual, is critical.If you've ever felt trapped in an environment where taking a real break feels impossible, this conversation will resonate deeply and offer hope. Tune in to hear more about why these feelings arise, how they can be addressed, and the importance of prioritizing your well-being.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/236

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, host Sarah Cottrell talks with David Sazant, a former litigator who transitioned from practicing law to becoming a therapist. David shares how he recognized that his legal career was not in line with his personal values and explains the process he went through to make the leap into mental health. For those considering a career outside of the legal profession, especially in therapy, David's story offers valuable insights and inspiration.Throughout their conversation, David discusses the challenges he faced as a lawyer, the sense of unfulfillment that led him to leave litigation, and the importance of living in alignment with one's values. This episode provides an honest look at what it takes to make a significant career shift, making it a must-listen for any lawyer feeling stuck and seeking a new path.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/246

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, host Sarah Cottrell shares a conversation with Annie Little about disclosing ADHD and other neurodivergent or mental health conditions in the workplace, specifically within Biglaw. As October is ADHD Awareness Month, Sarah highlights the challenges lawyers face when considering disclosure and the systemic issues in law firms that often fail to provide adequate support. Tune in for an insightful discussion about the complexities of navigating legal careers with ADHD and the importance of creating supportive work environments.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/207

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell tackles a topic that has been coming up in many of her conversations with clients: the overwhelming feeling that you just don't want to work anymore. If you've ever felt like you hate working and can't imagine enjoying any job, especially after working in a toxic legal environment, this episode is for you. Sarah discusses how burnout, particularly in lawyers, can make you feel like you're broken, but she's here to tell you—you're not. She explains why these feelings are common and how recovery is possible.Drawing on her experiences working with lawyers in her Collab program, Sarah highlights the importance of giving yourself time and space to recover from burnout.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/243If you are looking for support between the self-paced nature of the Collab and working with Sara one-on-one, then what you are looking for is the guided track.The Guided Track is a live eight weeks small group intensive for lawyers who want to jumpstart their search for an alternative career, starting on October 4th, and running through November 22nd.Enroll at formerlawyer.com/guidedtrack

  Are you working at a toxic job?  But you're afraid to leave?  In this episode with Sarah Cottrell, founder of Former Lawyer, we do a deep dive into: - How to pay off your student loans after leaving your job. - How you can work on building your dream career while working your full time job. - How narcissism is built into workplaces. - The strategies you can use to leave a toxic work environment. Connect with Sarah at www.formerlawyer.com. Connect with Samorn at www.linkedin.com/in/samornselim. Get a copy of Samorn's book, “Belonging: Self Love Lessons From A Workaholic Depressed Insomniac Lawyer” at https://tinyurl.com/swpc578c. Get weekly career tips by signing up for our newsletter at www.careerunicorns.com.

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell talks with Victoria Collier, founder of Quid Pro Quo Law, about the process of preparing a law firm for sale. Victoria shares her own journey, from building her practice to successfully selling it, and offers critical insights into the steps lawyers can take to make their firms scalable and attractive to buyers. From establishing processes and delegating tasks to cleaning up financials, Victoria breaks down the key factors that make a law firm a valuable asset.Whether you're a law firm owner thinking about your long-term exit strategy or simply curious about what goes into selling a legal practice, this episode is packed with actionable advice. Learn how to position your firm for sale, maximize its value, and set yourself up for a successful transition beyond the law.See show notes at formerlawyer.com/242If you are looking for support between the self-paced nature of the Collab and working with Sara one-on-one, then what you are looking for is the guided track.The Guided Track is a live eight weeks small group intensive for lawyers who want to jumpstart their search for an alternative career, starting on October 4th, and running through November 22nd.Enroll at formerlawyer.com/guidedtrack

Sarah Cottrell, founder of the Former Lawyer Podcast, discusses the challenges and identity struggles that lawyers often face, the misconceptions surrounding the legal profession, and the importance of exploring alternative career paths. Sarah shares her journey from practicing law to becoming an entrepreneur and offers valuable insights for lawyers seeking fulfillment outside traditional legal practice. Tune in to gain insights into the nuances of being a lawyer and the importance of setting boundaries.What You Can Do With a Law DegreeAccording to Sarah, there are various options for individuals with a law degree beyond practicing law. She emphasizes different ways to help and advocate for people, and being a lawyer is just one avenue. Sarah encourages individuals to explore their motivations and values when assisting others, as numerous career paths can align with those goals. She also highlights the importance of understanding that being a lawyer is not the only way to make a meaningful impact and that there are many fulfilling options outside the legal profession."There are all different sorts of options and practicing law is one of them. But there are lots of other things you can do as a law student, or as a young lawyer. It might be the exact opposite," emphasizes Sarah Cottrell, on this episode of You Are a Lawyer.Sarah shares that a law degree opens up many possibilities and that individuals should not limit themselves to traditional legal roles. It encourages law students and lawyers to think outside the box and consider alternative career paths that align with their interests, values, and strengths.LISTEN TO LEARN Some of the myths of big law Why therapy is essential for self-discovery How to transition from lawyer to entrepreneur WE ALSO DISCUSS The narrow ideas of achievement and career paths Alternative career choices for lawyers How law school can sometimes limit self-expression Join the FREE mailing list!Get behind-the-scenes content from You Are A Lawyer. 1) Visit www.youarealawyer.com2) Add your email address to the Subscribe pop-up box OR3) Enter your email address on the right side of the screen4) Get emails from me (I won't fill your inbox with junk)!Interact with You Are A LawyerKyla Denanyoh hosts the You Are A Lawyer podcast. Follow the podcast:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@youarealawyerWebsite: https://www.youarealawyer.com

In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell and Annie Little engaged in a candid conversation about ADHD and its prevalence among lawyers. They dive into an intriguing question that came in on social media after a previous ADHD conversation: Does being a lawyer give you ADHD?   The podcast revealed some compelling insights about ADHD in the legal profession and debunked misconceptions. If you're a lawyer contemplating a career change, this blog post is for you. We'll break down the essential points from the podcast and explore the real challenges lawyers with ADHD face, shedding light on why they may be considering leaving the law. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/206    

Livia Sara is an eating disorder survivor, mental health coach, autism advocate and author from the Netherlands. Diagnosed autistic at 20, she now helps other neurodivergent people recover from disordered eating through learning to embrace their unique traits.  She takes a holistic approach to health and healing, supporting each individual on their own journey to recovery and living life to their fullest potential.  She shares autism and eating disorder related content on her popular YouTube and Instagram accounts, hosts her own podcast, the Liv Label Free podcast, and is publishing three books in 2023 - one of which is coming out next month. I was lucky enough to get a sneak preview before we recorded this episode. In our conversation we talk about: ➡ Her experiences of developing an eating disorder as a preteen ➡ How autistic traits can be mistaken for eating disorder ‘behaviours', and how this can make treatment and recovery harder ➡ Labels, stigma and diet culture, and why discovering she was autistic has helped her in her recovery ➡ The work she does now, her book, and  how she has been able to use her experiences to help others    CONTENT WARNING This episode contains discussion of disordered eating and eating disorders from the start.  Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: Website: https://www.livlabelfree.com  Podcast: Liv Label Free https://www.livlabelfree.com/podcasts/liv-label-free  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/livlabelfree  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/livlabelfree/  Information on eating disorders and autism from the National Autistic Society: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/eating-disorders    If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Amy Sullivan, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Carly Melling, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Felicia Libo, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Heather Peake, Hegatronix, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Jo, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Wendy Walker, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast 

Gem Kennedy is a Coach and podcaster from Essex in the UK. They are non-binary and queer, and self identified as autistic and ADHD last year, at 35.  They are a Transformational Coach, facilitator and advocate, supporting neurodivergent and queer folk, present a podcast called Queers & Co., and are also co-parent to two home educated autistic children.  They are passionate about body liberation, queering things, spirituality, children's rights and playing the ukulele! We covered a lot in this conversation! But a few of the things we talk about are: ➡ Gem's early experiences of anxiety and school refusal  ➡ Gender expectations and connecting with gender ➡ Masking and unmasking – when and where to unmask, situations they avoid and thinking about where to spend our energy, and how to be social and actually enjoy it! ➡ Balancing life, work and homeschooling, and meeting needs in a neurodivergent household ➡ Queering things and seeking out counter-cultural wisdom   CONTENT WARNING Before we begin, I need to let you know that there a couple of brief mentions of disordered eating in this conversation, but the topic isn't explored in any detail.   Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: Gem's website: www.gemkennedy.com  Their Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thegemkennedy/  Queers & Co podcast: https://www.gemkennedy.com/podcast   If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Amy Sullivan, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Felicia Libo, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Heather Peake, Hegatronix, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Wendy Walker, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast

Kirstie Pickles is an equine vet, academic, mum and mental health advocate from Derbyshire in the UK. Now 49, she was diagnosed autistic at 47, following her daughter's diagnosis. She is passionate about sharing her story and raising the awareness of neurodiversity to allow for better self-advocacy and reduce the stigma associated with autism, and is currently researching autism within her profession, and is involved in an autism awareness training programme for medical professionals as an expert by experience.  In our conversation we talk about: ➡ Her lifelong special interest and determination to become a vet, and her experience of thriving at school and university – but finding the transition from academia to the workplace difficult, and struggling to cope as a newly qualified vet ➡ How her diagnosis has helped her get accommodations at work ➡ The findings of her research into autistic vets, including ‘shocking' statistics around their mental health and wellbeing ➡ How the research – that has relevance to all autistics who work or want to work – can be applied to better support autistic professionals and employees ➡ How she's now advocating for herself and other autistic adults   CONTENT WARNING During this conversation there's a very brief mention of statistics around suicide.   Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: Kirstie's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirstie-pickles-01ab6b150   If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Felicia Libo, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Heather Peake, Hegatronix, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Wendy Walker, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast 

Maisie Soetantyo is the founder of a nonprofit with a mission to improve employment prospects for autistic jobseekers and aspiring business owners. Now an openly autistic advocate and inclusivity trainer, she has been working with neurodivergent people since her undergraduate studies in 1991, but it would be many years before some of her clients started suggesting that she might be autistic, too. A former Applied Behavioural Analysis (ABA) practitioner, she moved away from ABA after realising that supporting her client's authenticity as autistic individuals should be the goal. She set up Autism Career Pathways in San Francisco, USA in 2019, and now works to foster a meaningful understanding and acceptance of an autism diagnosis as a unique pathway to self advocacy and a fulfilling life.  In our conversation we talk about: ➡ Her experiences growing up with learning difficulties and processing disorders in a neurodivergent family ➡ Her thoughts on autism and employment, and how our special interests and even our stims can hold the key to what we should be doing with our lives. ➡ Her experiences as an ABA practitioner, how her thinking has evolved, and the work she now does to support autistic people. Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: Maisie's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maisiesoetantyo/  Autism Career Pathways website: https://autismcareerpathways.org/  Her LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maisie-soetantyo/   If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Heather Peake, Hegatronix, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast 

Laura Richmond is a writer and researcher from Southampton in the UK. Now 35, she was diagnosed autistic last year. She had an extremely difficult road to diagnosis. Social and emotional struggles in childhood led to her being in and out of the psychiatric system for 15 years, misdiagnosed and spending time in various psychiatric hospitals.  The turning point came when her son was born: after a traumatic birth she developed PTSD and spent time in a psychiatric mother and baby unit. Her positive experience there, so unlike her previous time in hospital, led her to begin writing about her experiences and unravelling her own history, eventually leading to her autism diagnosis and a book about her experiences that will be published very soon. Laura and I covered so many different things in this conversation! Although some of the topics we discuss are not easy, I believe it's so important that these stories are told.  Some of the things we talk about are: ➡ Why she was initially cautious about getting an autism diagnosis ➡ Her mental health challenges, self harm, and her time in psychiatric services ➡ Hyperlexia, sensory issues and the double empathy problem ➡ Her journey of self discovery through writing her memoir and tapping into autistic joy   CONTENT WARNING: Please be aware that there is discussion of self harm, mental health difficulties, the psychiatric system and birth trauma from the start and at various points throughout this episode, so if you don't wish to hear about these topics, you may want to skip this one.   Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: Laura's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cooksferryqueen/  Her Twitter - https://twitter.com/cooksferryqueen  Her Linktree - https://linktr.ee/cooksferryqueen  Pre-order/buy her book - https://unbound.com/books/all-my-worldly-joy/ Information on autism and self harm from the National Autistic Society: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/mental-health/self-harm    If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Heather Peake, Hegatronix, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast

Rosie Smith is the owner of a non-profit radical bookshop in Canton in Cardiff, just a couple of miles from where I live.  Now 32, she grew up just outside Cardiff with her mum and sister. Leaving school at 16 due to anxiety, eating disorders and mental health issues, she found her people in music, joining bands and doing various different jobs until she decided to open the bookshop in 2019, after quitting her 27th job. Rosie's wonderful shop, Shelf Life, works with independent publishers to stock a range of fiction and nonfiction books centering neurodiversity, disability and mental health, anti-racism, anti-capitalism, LGBT+, feminism and gender. It's a little beacon of hope and diversity on the corner of Cowbridge Road East. Rosie was diagnosed autistic in March last year, and says that diagnosis has helped put her lifelong anxiety, panic attacks and depression into a new perspective, and and building relationships with autistic people has been life-affirming. We talk about: ➡ Some of the challenges Rosie experienced growing up and trying to find her place in the world. ➡ Navigating the challenges of employment as an undiagnosed autistic employee ➡ Her wonderfully serendipitous path to owning her own bookshop - and the pros and cons of being an autistic business owner ➡ The joys of finding community, knowing herself better, and finding a sense of purpose Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: https://twitter.com/shelflifecdf  https://www.instagram.com/shelflifecdf/   If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast   

Kay Louise Aldred is a writer, facilitator, teacher, mentor, and resource creator from North Yorkshire in the UK. Now 49, she was diagnosed autistic quite recently, last November. A former teacher, just like me she suffered burnout, left her career and became self employed before discovering her autism. Now she and her husband are co-authoring a book, Embodied Education: Creating Safe Space for Learning, Facilitating and Sharing, which will be available late autumn 2023. She has worked with children and adults in educational, retreat and wellness settings throughout her career, has taught 11-18 year old neurodiverse students and has parented neurodivergent children of her own. She is an advocate for safe, nervous-system-friendly structures in education, learning and sharing spaces and is passionate about increasing awareness of the gifts of neurodivergence. In our conversation we talk about: ➡ Being undiagnosed autistic teachers ➡ Learning to advocate for herself with her family ➡ Her experience of burnout and recovery, and tools for self-regulation  ➡ What autism-informed education looks like ➡ Her thoughts and ideas about autism and trauma, religion and spirituality and masking CONTENT WARNING: towards the end of our conversation Kay talks briefly about a sexual assault. She doesn't go into detail, but if this is something you'd rather not hear about, you should skip from 50:39 to 52:53. Squarepeg is a podcast in which neurodivergent women, and trans and nonbinary people, explore navigating a neurotypical world and share their insights, challenges and successes. I hope that these conversations will be inspiring and thought provoking, open you up to new ways of thinking about being neurodivergent, and help you feel more connected to a worldwide community of people with similar experiences. I'm Amy Richards, and after being diagnosed autistic at the age of 37 I'm now on a mission to learn more about different perspectives and issues around being a neurodivergent adult in a world that feels like it doesn't quite fit.   EPISODE LINKS: Kay's website: https://kaylouisealdred.com  Her book: https://www.thegirlgod.com/embodied_education.php Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kaylouisealdred/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kaylouisealdred  Twitter: https://twitter.com/kaylouisealdred  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kay-louise-aldred-ma-pgce-87542716b/   If you'd like to connect or get in touch with Squarepeg, you can find me on: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/squarepeg.community/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/squarepegautism  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/squarepegautism/  Or on my website: https://squarepeg.community/    THANK YOU TO MY PATRONS! A HUGE thank you to my amazing patrons, who support my work on the podcast: Abi Hunter, Adam Klager, Amy Adler, Amy-Beth Mellor, Anika Lacerte, Annette, Becky Beasley, Ben Davies, Caroline, Cat Preston, Catrin Green, Cindy Bailey, Clare Forrest, Clare Holmes, Corinne Cariad, Dana Bradley, Danielle Warby, Dennis McNulty, Elizabeth Williams, Erica Kenworthy, Erin Pineapple, Ewan McNeill, Fiona Connor, Galina, Gwyneth, Hannah Breslin, Jackie Allen, JF, Jayne Hutchinson, Jeff Goldman, Jen Bartlett, Julie, Katarzyna Tomaszewska, Kate and Kathryn, Kate Faust, Katharine Richards, Katherine Lynch, Kenneth Knowles, Laura, Laurencia Saenz Benavides, Lea Li, Leo Ricketts, Lilli Simmons, Linda Brown, Liz, LQ, Lyb, Mandy Allen, Marjory Webber, Martine, Melissa Shaw, Meredith L. Freyre, MN, Paul Harris, Pete Burke, Rebecca Biegel, Rebecca Kemp, Sadie Slater, Sarah Cottrell, Sarah Jeffery, Sarah Ivinson, Sarah Swanton, Shauna Schramke, Suzanna Chen, Suzanne, Talia's Nature, Tammie Fabien, Tamsen Staniford, Tegan Bailey, Tessa Valyou, Tree Hall, Vic Wiener, Vicki Temple, Victoria Chang, Victoria Routledge, Zephyrine Craster and Zoe Lee. If you're enjoying the Squarepeg podcast and would like to help me carry on making new episodes, you can become a member of the Squarepeg community on Patreon from £3 per month: https://www.patreon.com/squarepegpodcast