Podcast appearances and mentions of Jerry White

Electric Mullet Ep #50: Superman - Soul Search Welcome back to Electric Mullet: The Superman Podcast! This time Phil, Tyler, Justin and Lilith review Adventures of Superman #469 (August 1990) featuring the return of Psi-phon and Dreadnaught and “Soul Search” from Action Comics #656, Superman #47, and Adventures of Superman #470 (August-September 1990) as the demonic Blaze attempts to steal the souls of Jimmy Olsen and Jerry White and a supporting character meets their final fate. Tune in today and don't forget to review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and anywhere else you can!    Electric Mullet's Links  → Bluesky https://bsky.app/profile/capesnetwork.bsky.social   → Twitter https://twitter.com/MulletElectric   → Instagram https://www.instagram.com/clsidekicks → Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ElectricMullet → YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/CapesandLunatics ==================

Hebrews 13:5-6 Make sure that your character is free from the love of money, being content with what you have; for He Himself has said, “I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you,” so that we confidently say, “The Lord is my helper, I will not be afraid. What will man do to me?” There are a number of confessions throughout Hebrews, and here is another important one. There are things that we say because we are believers in Jesus Christ. In chapter 11, we say we are strangers and exiles in this world. In this verse, we say that the Lord is our helper as we run the race set before us, and therefore we will not be afraid of what man can do to us. The reason we are not afraid of what man can do to us is that man cannot take away what we have been given in Jesus Christ. We have His presence and help in any situation. We can abide in Him, confidently and continually draw near to His throne, where we know we will receive mercy and grace any time we need help, and in a timely manner. What a tremendous encouragement! Our confidence each day is that we are not alone. We have the Helper, the Holy Spirit, manifesting the presence of Jesus in our lives. If you remember in 2:18, the author wrote, “For because He Himself has suffered when tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.” His life, by the Holy Spirit within us, is our strength, wisdom, protection, and source of love so we can walk in love with Him. Let's remember that this is in the context of the author admonishing his readers to let love of the brethren continue in order to show their gratitude for receiving an unshakable kingdom. This great fact, that we have Jesus as our Helper 24/7/365 forever, is unshakable. Therefore, we confidently say, “The Lord is my Helper, I will not be afraid. What will man do to me?” My friend, Jerry White, in A Disciple's Notebook, wrote about the way to walk with Jesus. “The way is by childlike faith, implicit obedience, and by simple abiding. The Lord Jesus tells us this is possible.” One last encouragement today. Let's not miss this; the author wrote that we do say this with our voices and our lives. I think there is something important about our hearing our own voices say these great words. We can't declare the truth enough. Jesus is my life! I will not be afraid. No one can take Jesus away from me. I hope you'll memorize these two verses and open your mouth with this wonderful confession and then live in the confidence of it today as you live to love with Jesus. I invite you to become a partner in our ministry. Would you pray about becoming a regular supporter of Elijah Ministries and the Live to Love with Jesus ministry? I hope you will receive the joy and benefit of “giving it forward,” so others may receive encouragement to turn their hearts to God and to live to love with Jesus. You may give online or send a check to the address listed at www.spiritofelijah.com/donate.

Hebrews 12:4-5 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him;” In verse three, we were encouraged to consider the hostility Jesus endured so as not to grow weary or lose heart. Today, in these verses, the author revealed something about Jesus that he wanted his readers to take into account. He opposed sin to the point of shedding blood, and He didn't lose heart.  I don't think the author had Jesus' opposition to the sins committed against Him. I think the spotlight is on His opposition or striving against the temptations to sin in Himself. I say that because of Heb. 2:17-18. “Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.” And again in 4:15-16. “For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.” Perhaps the author had in mind Jesus' resistance to sin in the garden when He sweated drops of blood under the agony of becoming united with our sins. I think the sin of unbelief is specifically in view in this admonition to resist sin. That has been the warning throughout the book and in the first verse of this chapter. Of course, we should strive against all sin in our pursuit of living to love with Jesus. I close today's encouragement with an excerpt from A Disciple's Notebook, a devotional by my mentor Jerry White, Jr. (By the way, it's available at spiritofelijah.com).  Sin causes suffering. It inflicts pain from guilt and shame. It defiles and separates from God (Isaiah 59:1-2). It viciously destroys love, joy and peace. It ushers in death. Tolerating sin is like permitting a venomous snake to live in your house. Either kill the snake or be poisoned by it. The Lord Jesus accomplished everything necessary for us to utterly slay sin. By steadfast faith in Him and His finished work, and by the power of His Holy Spirit, we do not have to continue as slaves to wrong attitudes, or selfish thought patterns, careless damaging words, ungodly deeds, or neglect of doing what He has commanded. Through Christ we are more than conquerors.” So as you run your race today, living to love with Jesus, determine to resist all sin, but especially the sin of unbelief. Fix your eyes on Jesus.

Victorian London was a city of immense wealth, but also shocking poverty. The historian Jerry White described it as "a metropolis of wealth, grandeur, culture, and sophistication alongside a hell of starving, degrading, and heart-rending poverty." The largest city in the world at the time, London was also home to tens of thousands of Irish emigrants. While there was a wealthy Irish elite, the vast majority were poor labourers.While surviving the daily grind of life in the slums of the Victorian city, they also faced suspicion and racism.In this podcast, historian Breda Corish shares their stories based on her research in the Whitechapel area of the city.A graduate of University College London, Breda's research focuses on the Irish in London over the centuries. You can read her work on her website www.irishlondonhistory.com. Follow her on social media at @N16Breda on Twitter and BlueSky @n16breda.bsky.social.Support the show at www.patreon.com/irishpodcast Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/irishhistory. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Send us a textDr. Jerry White, International President Emeritus of The Navigators (R) was the speaker at a special gathering in Kansas City October 4, 2024. Dr. White is a retired Major General of the USAF Reserves and shared the importance of finishing well in the "fourth quarter" of our lives. We should all desire to finish well, however, so this applies to everyone who names the name of Christ. Harsh Grief, Gentle Hope by Mary White about the loss of their son in 1992 and how God provided comfort and hope in that situation.Dangers Men Face by Jerry White about stress, work, anger, sexualityDr. Jerry White's website

What does it take to shape the next generation of Christlike leaders, and how can we inspire a deeper love for the Church amidst a fragmented world? In this episode of the Lausanne Movement Podcast, Jason and Phil Ryken dive into a rich conversation about leadership, faith, and the legacy of serving the next generation. From personal stories of faith in the Ryken family to navigating the challenges of modern-day discipleship, Phil shares insights on how the Church can stay relevant while remaining rooted in biblical truths. Whether passionate about student ministry, leadership, or global missions, this episode offers profound reflections and actionable wisdom for today's church. Main Points: Reaching & Developing Gen Z's: Highlighting the hunger for genuine relationships and peace, Phil addresses Gen Z's spiritual needs through meaningful gospel engagement. Why the next generation's greatest need is Jesus, and how we can authentically reach them. Beauty, Brokenness & The Gospel: A discussion of how beauty is intertwined with the gospel and why God's redemptive work makes the church beautiful, even amid brokenness. Christlike Leadership: Lessons from the Apostle Paul's servanthood inform Phil's approach to leadership with authenticity, humility, and collaboration. After listening, we invite you to reflect on how you can inspire and mentor the next generation in your community. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with others passionate about equipping future leaders for the Kingdom! Links & Resources: God on the Move Podcast – Phil's recommended episode featuring Jerry White.Demonstrating Godly Character in the U.S. Air Force: https://lausanne.org/podcast/demonstrating-godly-character-in-the-u-s-air-force The Cape Town Commitment - https://lausanne.org/statement/ctcommitment Wheaton College Website – https://www.wheaton.edu/ Book: Beauty Is Your Destiny: How the Promise of Splendor Changes Everything by Phil Ryken - https://www.amazon.com/Beauty-Your-Destiny-Splendor-Everything/dp/1433587726 Guest Bio: Dr. Philip Graham Ryken is the eighth president of Wheaton College, where he studied English literature and philosophy. Dr. Ryken earned a Master of Divinity degree from Westminster Theological Seminary and a doctorate in historical theology from the University of Oxford. He preached at Philadelphia's historic Tenth Presbyterian Church from 1995 until his appointment at Wheaton in 2010. President Ryken has published more than 50 Bible commentaries and other books and serves as a board member for The Gospel Coalition and the National Association of Evangelicals. He has traveled to more than 30 countries on 6 continents to teach and preach the gospel. We'd love your feedback to help us to improve this podcast. Thank you!

Send us a textDr. Jerry White, International President Emeritus of The Navigators (R) was the speaker at a special gathering in Kansas City October 4, 2024. Dr. White is a retired Major General of the USAF Reserves and shared the importance of finishing well in the "fourth quarter" of our lives. We should all desire to finish well, however, so this applies to everyone who names the name of Christ. Harsh Grief, Gentle Hope by Mary White about the loss of their son in 1992 and how God provided comfort and hope in that situation.Dangers Men Face by Jerry White about stress, work, anger, sexualityDr. Jerry White's website

#BettingPeople: Jerry White, bookmaker's assistant and professional punter has been in the game man and boy. He was introduced to and fell in love with greyhound racing before he was of legal age to bet. He cut his teeth at both the dogs and horseracing and even went behind the scenes working in a yard for a period of time. In his time on course, he'd known some of the legendary punters of the day in an environment where the underworld wasn't very far away. These four parts cover some fascinating stories, the bonus episode covers Jerry's parallel life in music mixing with Britpop Royalty and punk rock legends. Was Jerry born lucky? You decide!

In the final episode of Toilets Through Time, we've finally reached the age of avant-garde sewerage systems and shining porcelain cisterns: the Victorian era. David Musgrove is joined by historian and author Jerry White, who explains why the period nevertheless saw appalling sanitary conditions that sparked debates about the public health of Britain's cities – and shares some surprising toilet-based euphemisms. The HistoryExtra podcast is produced by the team behind BBC History Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of "God on the Move," Jerry White recounts how God called him to serve in the United States Air Force and delves into whether and how a Christian should serve in the military. He also shares the story and mission of The Navigators in global evangelism and discipleship. Additionally, he explores how, now being retired, his heart still beats for discipleship and witnessing God in all areas of life.   If you are a Christian seeking to discover stories of how God moves in different parts of the world, then this podcast is for you.   Links from interview: The Navigators  Jerry White and the Lausanne Movement   The Discipleship Podcast If you would like to help us improve our podcast, please send us your feedback.   Dr Jerry White: Dr. Jerry White is the international president emeritus of The Navigators, a mission organisation with 5,500 staff members serving in evangelism and discipleship across more than 100 countries. He holds a master's degree and a PhD in astronautics from Purdue University and served as an associate professor in astronautics at the United States Air Force Academy. With a 37-year tenure in the U.S. Air Force (active-reserve), he retired as a Major General. Dr. White also serves as a member of the board of directors for the Lausanne Movement.

Romans 16:5, Greet Epaenetus, my beloved, who is the first convert to Christ from Asia. Romans 16:8 Greet Ampliatus, my beloved in the Lord. Romans 16:9 Greet Urbanus, our fellow worker in Christ, and Stachys my beloved. I chose to look at these three verses together today because Paul referred to Epaenetus, Ampliatus, and Stachys as his “beloved, or beloved in the Lord.” When is the last time you thought of someone as your “beloved”? And if you did, what led you to refer to them as “beloved”? The word Paul used is a form of the term agape. It's one you love dearly, deeply, unconditionally. As we live to love with Jesus, surely Jesus will love some specially through you like He did the apostle John. John referred to himself four times in his gospel as the one “whom Jesus loved.” He knew Jesus loved him. This reminds me of something Jerry White, my beloved friend and mentor shared with my wife. It was something like this. “One of the most important questions I ask myself with regard to my relationships is this: Do they know I love them?” I might add, “Do they know Jesus loves them through me?” I'm sure that's included in what Jerry meant. Imagine one event in eternity when you meet Epaenetus, Ampliatus, and Stachys in heaven. You ask them, “Did you know that Paul loved you dearly in Jesus and that Jesus loved you dearly in Paul?” It's not difficult for me to imagine their heads nodding in the affirmative. If you asked Epaenetus how he knew Paul loved him, he would probably say that he shared the gospel with him and it led to his conversion. Let's ask ourselves these questions to encourage ourselves to live to love with Jesus. Do the people in our lives know that we love them? How do they know we love them? And if we're in doubt, Holy Spirit, what shall we do to communicate that we love them with Jesus? Father, anoint and fill us with the Holy Spirit, the presence and power of Christ, so that we can love and trust You, so You will know that we love You. And so that we can love those You put in our paths today, to the degree that they know they are “beloved” by us, in Your name, for Your glory.

New Guest Expert! On this week's Aftermath, Rebecca speaks with British historian and author Jerry White about the disastrous sinking of the SS Princess Alice. Jerry highlights important context to the meaning of The River Thames at this moment in history and shares harrowing first hand accounts and crucial new information which potentially calls the initial verdict into question. Afterward, Patreon subscribers can listen on with Producer Clayton Early and Fact Checker Chris Smith in the post interview breakdown. Not on Patreon? Click below and join the family!Join our Patreon!We have merch!Join our Discord!Tell us who you think is to blame at http://thealarmistpodcast.comEmail us at thealarmistpodcast@gmail.comFollow us on Instagram @thealarmistpodcastFollow us on Twitter @alarmistThe Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/alarmist. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ANTIC Episode 104 - You're Gonna Label Me a Failure In this episode of ANTIC The Atari 8-Bit Computer Podcast…Kay plays with Pokey the AI chatbot some more, Kay's cat tries to smack Randy in the head, we discuss what happens if we don't meet our interview goals (hint: Randy will be labeled a failure), and we bring you all the Atari 8-bit news from the last month of 2023 READY! Recurring Links  Floppy Days Podcast  AtariArchives.org  AtariMagazines.com  Kay's Book “Terrible Nerd”  New Atari books scans at archive.org  ANTIC feedback at AtariAge  Atari interview discussion thread on AtariAge  Interview index: here  ANTIC Facebook Page  AHCS  Eaten By a Grue  Next Without For  Links for Items Mentioned in Show: What we've been up to The genealogy program Max Derhak mentioned when he was interviewed in 2014 was just found - http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-adam-trace_42271.html  Antic Magazine v1n3, v1n4 and v1n5 (Aug, Oct and Nov 1982) software - https://www.atarimagazines.com/software/software.html  Space War source - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/358800-apx-space-war-source-code-for-you/  Wade's podcast link - https://inverseatascii.info/  Kay's 2023 Wrapped - https://www.patreon.com/posts/kays-2023-95465097 Kay's Juiced.GS articles - https://archive.org/search?query=identifier%3Asavetzarticle_*  Recent Interviews ANTIC Interview 436 - Rodrigo Castro, Atari in Chile  News Digital Eclipse announces Llamasoft: The Jeff Minter Story - https://www.gamesasylum.com/2023/12/06/digital-eclipse-announces-llamasoft-the-jeff-minter-story/ VCF East 2024: Dean Notarnicola - http://www.vcfed.org  It's Alive! - RM800XL - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5IXmZHu_Y  Archer Maclean A8 Defender and Stargate:  https://www.gamesthatwerent.com/2023/12/defender/  https://www.gamesthatwerent.com/2023/12/stargate-2/  Altirra 4.20 released - https://www.virtualdub.org/altirra.html  Homemade 300 baud modem - JohnPolka AKA Mark - https://www.southernamis.com/forum/general-discussions/homemade-300-baud-modem-from-the-80s  2023 Advanced PCB Remake For the 800XL -- Revision 1.1 - reifsynderb - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/357302-2023-advanced-pcb-remake-for-the-800xl-revision-11/  Forgotten Gems: Lucasfilm's Rescue on Fractalus! At IGN:  https://www.ign.com/articles/forgotten-gems-lucasfilms-rescue-on-fractalus  ANTIC Interview 37 - David Fox, Lucas Arts/Rescue on Fractalus  New FujiNet HighScoreEnabled Games! - Tom Cherryhomes - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/358628-new-highscoreenabled-games/  Pokey - https://chat.openai.com/g/g-t3fdHnbbK-pokey-the-atari-guru  Tenebra 2 ported to Atari 8-bit (tip of the hat to Philsan): Video: https://youtu.be/Owg8E8ZyGNU   Download: https://h4plo.itch.io/tenebra-2  Enjoy 2024 New Years Disk - https://ppsberlin.de/ppsberlin/downloads/new-years-disc/58-nyd2024  Jerry White's Poker Solitaire 2024: https://forums.atariage.com/topic/359008-jerry-whites-poker-solitaire-2024/  http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-poker-solitaire-2024_42465.html  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeGwMqngN08  Upcoming Shows Vintage Computer Festival SoCal - February 17-18, 2024 - Hotel Fera Events Center, Orange, CA - vcfsocal.com  Interim Computer Festival SPRING - March 23rd and 24th, 2024 - Intraspace, Seattle, WA - https://sdf.org/icf/  Midwest Gaming Classic - April 5-7 - Wisconsin Center, Milwaukee, WI - https://www.midwestgamingclassic.com/  VCF East - April 12-14, 2024 - Wall, NJ - http://www.vcfed.org  Indy Classic Computer and Video Game Expo - April 13-14 - Crowne Plaza Airport Hotel, Indianapolis, IN - https://indyclassic.org/  VCF Europa - April 27-28, 2024 - Munich, Germany - https://vcfe.org/E/  VCF Southwest - June 14-16, 2024 - Davidson-Gundy Alumni Center at UT Dallas - https://www.vcfsw.org/  Boatfest Retro Computer Expo - June 14-16 - Hurricane, WV - http://boatfest.info  Southern Fried Gaming Expo and VCF Southeast - July 19-21,  2024 - Atlanta, GA - https://gameatl.com/  Fujiama - July 23-28 - Lengenfeld, Germany - http://atarixle.ddns.net/fuji/2024/   Silly Venture SE (Summer Edition) - Aug. 15-28 - Gdansk, Poland - https://www.demoparty.net/silly-venture/silly-venture-2024-se   VCF Midwest - September 7-8 - NEW VENUE TBD - http://vcfmw.org/  Portland Retro Gaming Expo - September 27-29, 2024 - Oregon Convention Center, Portland, OR - https://retrogamingexpo.com/  Silly Venture WE (Winter Edition) - Dec. 5-8 - Gdansk, Poland - https://www.demoparty.net/silly-venture/silly-venture-2024-we  Event page created by Chicago Classic Computing - http://chiclassiccomp.org/events.html  Event page created by Floppy Days - https://www.facebook.com/VintageComputerShows/  YouTube Videos From Bill Kendrick: Peter Dell (JAC! / WUDSN guy) recent demo videos - ​​https://youtube.com/@jacofwudsn  Lumacode Easy HDMI for Retro Computers - YARC Yet Another Retro Channel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ7hEoClJ3A  Making of Time Wizard - a game for Atari 8-bit computer - amarok - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB6YIItiB8Q its development. The ATARI Christmas Massacre - Rebuilding an 810 from shattered pieces - Retro is the new black - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S17Kfs0jblw  SWP ATR8000 : The most expandable, versatile disk interface available for the Atari! - Vintage Gaming Memories - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f47l2FTiSN0  The story of the Atari 800XE, why did Atari release this model? - GeSpy Builds Stuff - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VObKY4O4O14  The Granddaddy of Atari Computing - the Atari 800 -  the power of vintage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH5UAh5Rt_U  New at Archive.org  https://archive.org/details/boardwatchmagazine https://archive.org/details/maplin-electronics-vol-5-iss-17/mode/2up?q=Atari https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_dataprodatariM09080108207AtariAtari400800_212178 https://archive.org/details/atari_video_dvd1/  New at GitHub https://github.com/TobyLobster/multiply_test https://github.com/pedgarcia/tection https://github.com/HolgerJanz/BW-DOS https://github.com/jking11/Cattlezone Feedback Book -  Smoke-Mirrors-Rise-Serial-Antipreneur   

My interview with Jerry White, CEO of the Easton Colleges Group, during my visit to Easton College on the outskirts of Norwich. It's a celebration of the great work done by the FE sector - the commitment to inclusion, the tailoring of various curricula to the needs of learners, and the palpable pride of students and staff.

Do you wonder how to grow a faith foundation that will sustain you through all the seasons of your life? Discover how Jerry White kept going after experiencing inevitable losses and disappointments. Jerry is the international president emeritus for The Navigators and author of Dangers Men Face: Overcoming the Greatest Threats to Living Life Well. Find full show notes here: https://bit.ly/365jerrywhite Share the love. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate it on Apple Podcasts and write a brief review. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flourishing-culture-podcast/id1060724960?mt=2   By doing so, you will help spread our podcast to more listeners, and thereby help more Christian workplaces learn to build flourishing cultures. Follow our Host, Al Lopus, on X https://twitter.com/allopus  Follow our Host, Al Lopus, on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/allopus/ Email our host at al@workplaces.org

Originally recorded during the 10/15/23 Episode of How Did We Miss That?, found here: Rumble: https://rumble.com/v3pdxlj-propaganda-whitewashing-war-crimes-in-palestine-writers-strike-analysis-uaw.html TheRokfin: Part I: https://rokfin.com/stream/40221/Writers-Strike-Analysis--HDWMT-97-Partial Part II: https://rokfin.com/stream/40224/UAW-Strike-News--Propaganda-Whitewashing-War-Crimes-in-Palestine--HDWMT-97-Partial YouTube: Part I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4fgMCRQWB0 Part II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrrZW1W_jrg Story 1 - Writer's Strike: Who Won? An Honest Post Mortem from a Studio Negotiator Business Affairs Exec: A Studio Negotiator Responds to the WGA Deal: Strikegeist https://strikegeist.substack.com/p/business-affairs-exec-a-studio-negotiator Story 2 - UAW: KY Truck Plant Snap Strike, Latest Ford Offer, Mack Truck Strike Ford exec says “take it or leave it” as autoworkers press for all-out strike: Jerry White, WSWS https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/13/okey-o13.html UAW President Shawn Fain announces no new strikes Friday, heads to Mack Trucks to tamp down rank-and-file rebellion: Shannon Jones, WSWS https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/14/auto-o14.html All episode links found at our Substack: https://indiemediatoday.substack.com/p/how-did-we-miss-that-ep-97 How Did We Miss That? features articles written by independent journalists who expose corruption & worker exploitation, report on the worker organizing movement & routinely challenge establishment narratives & talking points.  Watch new episodes LIVE Sunday nights at 10pm ET / 7pm PT on YouTube, ROKFIN, Rumble, Twitch, Facebook, Twitter & Telegram, reviewing a few BIG stories we haven't seen covered enough in our independent media world. A podcast version is published within a couple of days to Spotify, Apple, iHeart, Amazon + most other major platforms. Indie & Reef are co-founders of Indie News Network, a collaborative family of independent content creators. Find all our links at https://inn.network. #GetINN co-Host Indie is: Co-host of American Tradition with Jesse Jett on INN Co-host of Nobody Wants to Work Anymore on INN Associate producer for The Misty Winston Show on TNT Radio Founder & Editor of Indie Media Today Substack @IndieMediaToday Creator of the Indie Media Awards @IndieMediaAward co-host Reef Breland is:  INN's Technical Director Creator, co-Executive Producer, engineer & co-host of INN News Producer for The Politics of Survival w/ Tara Reade on INN #SupportIndependentMedia #news #analysis #GeneralStrike #FreeAssangeNOW #mutualaid #FreeJonathanWall #FreeLeonardPeltier #DropTheCharges #JournalismIsNotACrime #FreeDanielHale #FreeMumiaAbuJamal Credits: Co-Host, Producer, Stream & Podcast Engineer, Clip Editor: Indie Left Co-Host, Producer & Technical Director: Reef Breland Thumbnails & Outro: Bigmadcrab Intro: Joe @STFUshitlib3 & Indie Left Music: Jesse Jett Wherever you are, Indie is! ⭐ Linktree: https://linktr.ee/indleft  ⭐ Substack: https://indiemediatoday.substack.com  ⭐ How Did We Miss That?: https://rumble.com/c/HowDidWeMissThat ⭐ How Did We Miss That Twitter: https://twitter.com/HowDidWeMissTha ⭐ How Did We Miss That? Podcast: https://anchor.fm/independentleftnews/ Reef's Links: ⭐ LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/reefbreland ⭐ Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReefBreland ⭐ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwugkQxjLkVIuXhPixLUfYw ⭐ Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/reefbreland ⭐ Unofficial Jimmy Dore Discord: https://discord.gg/N2Xe3QBvM2 INN Links: ⭐ Network Channels LinkTree: https://indienews.network  ⭐ Network Members LinkTree: https://linktr.ee/innmembers  ⭐ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/IndieNewsNetwork ⭐ Twitter: https://twitter.com/getindienews ⭐ Rokfin: https://rokfin.com/iNN ⭐ Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/indienewsnetwork/ ⭐ Substack: https://indienewsnetwork.substack.com

Electric Mullet Ep #6: Superman #5 & #6, Adventures of Superman #428, Action Comics #588 & 589 Welcome back to Electric Mullet: The Superman Podcast! This time Phil and Justin review May and June 1987 Superman issues. Superman #5 & #6 featuring Superman vs the threat of an ancient alien race, Adventures of Superman #428 featuring the first appearances of Bibbo Bibbowski, Jose Delgado, and Jerry White as the son of daily Planet editor is kidnapped in an attempt to force Perry to kill a story, and Action Comics #588 & #589 featuring Superman's team ups with Hawkman, Hawkgirl, and the Green Lantern Corps. Tune in today and don't forget to review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and anywhere else you can!    Electric Mullet's Links  → Twitter https://twitter.com/MulletElectric → Instagram https://www.instagram.com/clsidekicks → Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ElectricMullet → YouTube https://www.youtube.com/c/CapesandLunatics ==================

This episode features APX Bowler's Database, released in 1982 by APX. It was programmed by Jerry White.

ANTIC Episode 100 (Or Episode 4 in Binary) In this episode of ANTIC The Atari 8-Bit Computer Podcast… We celebrate our 100th (or is it the fourth, for you binary geeks out there?) episode by bringing you the latest news from across the Atari 8-bit computer landscape. READY! Recurring Links  Floppy Days Podcast  AtariArchives.org  AtariMagazines.com  Kay's Book “Terrible Nerd”  New Atari books scans at archive.org  ANTIC feedback at AtariAge  Atari interview discussion thread on AtariAge  Interview index: here  ANTIC Facebook Page  AHCS  Eaten By a Grue  Next Without For  Links for Items Mentioned in Show: What we've been up to The Atari newsletter at Internet Archive spreadsheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RkznDDlOL2O_K-RrbkajIuo6DvYof6Ajrn7j9NTcoDM/edit?usp=sharing  All Current Notes at Internet Archive - https://archive.org/details/currentnotesnewsletter?tab=collection&sort=-addeddate  MULE Online - http://muleonline.com  Discord thread on the Atari BASIC AI model, led by Jason Moore - https://discord.gg/WnEcxSvtS  News AtariProjects, Jason Moore, back to publishing new material - https://atariprojects.org/  Ted Richards died (April) - https://archive.org/details/TedRichardsInterview  Dealers Demo paper: https://www.academia.edu/10744534/Computer_Dealer_Demos_Selling_Home_Computers_with_Bouncing_Balls_and_Animated_Logos?email_work_card=view-paper  https://archive.org/details/computer-dealer-demos  https://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-434-michael-park-swan-and-fujiboink-demos-midi-maze  Atari custom controllers - https://www.vikingvg.com/atari-controllers  UgBASIC: You can find the source by clicking here - https://github.com/.../main/examples/contrib_asm_mos6502.bas  The IDE for Windows can be found here - https://spotlessmind1975.itch.io/ugbasic-ide  Official site - https://ugbasic.iwashere.eu/  Unijoysticle 2 800XL - gamepad for Atari 800XL:  On sale at Tindie - https://www.tindie.com/products/riq/unijoysticle-2-800xl-gamepad-for-atari-800xl/  At VCF West - ​​https://twitter.com/ricardoquesada/status/1687706816044752896?s=20  Game Cartridge Holder for Atari 400 & 800 - Tray Holds Up To 6 Games 400/800 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/175582283812  WEAVE MASTER - The Textile Design Tool Atari 400/800/XL/XE Cartridge:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/195892965783  https://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-315-sarah-haskell-computerized-weaving  https://forums.atariage.com/topic/274921-atari-grad-school-thesis-weavemaster-and-designers-delight/?do=findComment&comment=5290125  Atari FujiNet Updates: High Score Enabled PAC-MAN - Thom Cherryhomes - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/352884-high-score-enabled-pac-man-playthrough/  game-dos folder added to DOS folder on atari-apps - Thom Cherryhomes - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/352878-game-dos-folder-added-to-dos-folder-on-atari-apps/  FujiNet Game Lobby - http://fujinet.online:8080/  A8PicoCart - electrotrains - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/351546-a8picocart-unocart-on-a-raspberry-pi-pico/  Sub(AVG)Cart - https://miscretro.com/product/subcart/  SVI-CAS (link is broken) Poker Solitaire 2023 by Jerry White - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/352920-poker-solitaire-2023-by-jerry-white/  Decent XE mechanical keyboard for Atari XE computers - ScreamingAtTheRadio - https://forums.atariage.com/topic/352558-decent-xe-mechanical-keyboard-for-atari-xe-computers-how-to-order-one/  Upcoming Shows Silly Venture SE (Summer Edition) - Aug. 17-20 - Gdansk, Poland - https://www.demoparty.net/silly-venture/silly-venture-2023-se  Fujiama 2023 - Aug. 30 - Sep. 3 - Lengenfeld, Germany - 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Steve's Retro Gaming - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWrtAdvn5EY&t=2s  FujiNet, Atari 8-bit, and N: Fun: Making Game Disks - Thom Cherryhomes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S56KufpXlDQ&t=630s  New at Archive.org  Facebook group for Cin'Tari - https://www.facebook.com/groups/cintari  https://archive.org/details/cintari-vol-10-no-2-winter-92  https://archive.org/details/cintari-vol-11-no-1-jan-93  https://archive.org/details/cintari-vol-11-no-2-feb-93  https://archive.org/details/computer-shopper-february-1987  https://archive.org/details/computer-shopper-january-1987  http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/5543  https://archive.org/details/kaos-newsletters  Atari ST emulator now! - https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_atari_st_games?tab=collection 

If you want to grow anything, a business, a church, or even a city, you have to learn how to grow the next generation of leaders. Yet doing so is anything but easy. Join Boy With a Ball veteran youth leadership developers, Jamie Johnson and Christine Torres Emmet, as they talk to leaders from around the world who are mapping the DNA for growing young change-makers. If developing next-generation leaders matters to you, this is the conversation you have been searching for.Watch on YouTube!https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtMK4lkhkVfoIc_NgtNlTY8PcGKpIcxb3

[00:00:00] Caryn Ryan: The Chairman walks up to a fence.  They're tough, but they're relational, right? They're goal driven, but they're people driven. They stick to a vision of what they have for the organization and for the Board. They tend to be performance oriented. If you have Board Chairs who don't understand the value that the board is supposed to bring it's hard for them to be performance oriented. But the best Board Chairs really understand deeply what the value this board is bringing to this organization. And therefore, because they understand that they're able to act in that way. ​++++++++++++++++ [00:00:39] Tommy Thomas: In this episode, we're going to conclude the conversation that was started with Caryn Ryan, back in Episode 84. In that conversation, Caryn shared her leadership journey from BP/Amoco to the CFO for World Vision International to her current role as Founder and Managing Member of Missionwell.  In this episode, Caryn will be sharing lessons on nonprofit board governance that she's learned over the years.  [00:01:15] Tommy Thomas: Let's change over to board service and board governance for a few minutes. Your friend John Reynolds, who himself is a pretty steeped in this area, he said, if I ever got a chance to talk to you, that we for sure needed to talk about the work you've done and the  Balanced Scorecard for Boards. Take us into that. I really hadn't thought about that from a board perspective.  [00:01:36] Caryn Ryan: Yeah. That's great. I appreciated John's support in that area at the time. And then also Maggie Bailey, who you may know who was at Point Loma.  [00:01:44] Tommy Thomas: I do know Dr. Bailey.  [00:01:46] Caryn Ryan: She's been another good friend. And somebody who really helped form some of my thoughts on governance. We served on the Board of Open Doors together. So, in 2021 I read Dean Spitzer's book on Transformative Performance Metrics. And it made me start thinking about all the problems of metrics and how might it be possible to have more positive outcomes or avoiding the downsides that he was discussing. And I started thinking some of those downsides that he mentioned over and over through the book might be surmounted if we applied biblical principles and tried to attach metrics to our faith and that leaders that led from faith might therefore be able to get better outcomes. Let me give you a couple examples. When you're using metrics in an organization usually tangible and financial results are really at the top, and that doesn't motivate people a lot of the time. And so I began to think maybe if we had some people and relationships at the top, in other words, that sort of from this biblical base of loving people that might be more but motivating and it would certainly be better connected to our faith. And then getting overconfident in the measures that the measures become the goal. Humility, this is a really important faith-based value and way of life, and perseverance in the face of issues. Those kinds of biblical and ways of living faithfully might help surmount that. And the fact that a measurement isn't trusted. I was thinking of let your yes be a yes, this idea that people get very defensive regarding failures, I thought in a faithful community, confession is at the core of reconciliation. So, I started thinking about how all these shortcomings had a biblical answer to them. And I started thinking how could we start to put together an approach that was more biblical and then allowed people's faith to be at the heart of their metrics? And as time went on I started then thinking about, okay let's take the issue of goals. That's taking a step back from the problems of metrics, but metrics are meant to - in a sense, say how we're doing on the journey of goals. So, we have, for instance, a vision. You have a vision to get to the vision, you set big goals, and then when you set the big goals, you have metrics. There're BHAGs sometimes, or there are other types of goals. And I started just then thinking about goals. Smart Goals Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Relevant to the mission and vision of the organization and Timebound And I know you've talked with John Pearson, and hearing good friends, you probably have heard him talk a lot about smart goals. Specific, Measurable, Actionable, Relevant to the mission and vision and Timebound. John uses smart goals a lot and that has impacted so many non-profits and Christian organizations for the good. It's added a lot of clarity and focus. I began to think about another lens, which is clear goals. Clear goals have come out in the last few years as another way of thinking about goals. And the CLEAR stands for Collaborative, Limited, Emotional, Appreciable and Refinable. CLEAR Goals Collaborative, Limited, Emotional, Appreciable and Refinable If you look in more detail at what those mean, they all come down to how is it that people are motivated and how is it that within a system of organization we set goals that are people sized and yet think about who they are, and it thinks about the people who the basic people are connected to as well. So I began to think about those clear goals and how people get motivated and start thinking more and more that there might be, again, that role for faith because that approach of the clear goals seemed like it tied a little bit better with the love of people. So let me give you a quick example here. Let's just see my vision. This is my vision. I'm going to use you a personal example, and this isn't true by the way, but it's just an example. My vision is to travel the world and have lots of adventures, and then I go to the doctor and the doctor says, I need to lose 50 pounds to get to a goal weight. That doctor's saying that you need to get to a goal weight, that's not motivating by itself to a lot of people. In fact, it might discourage some people or, and some people might take it to extremes, and it might compromise their muscle building and their bone density, etc, and so on. So it can have some unintended consequences. And it might be hard on my family if I stop cooking because I need to lose 50 pounds. But if my goal is to be physically fit enough to take a hike in the Swiss Alps in two years, that's motivating to me. And it might produce long-term change and it might engage my family too. So the system around me, it might have positive benefits for the system around me and it might create better health outcomes for my family too. So I started thinking that's the goal, it's to get the right motivations for people directly responsible for the goal. It's to attach the goal to something that's motivational for them. And then it's to ensure that the surrounding people and processes don't suffer any material negative consequences, that goal and in fact maybe even benefit from it. So then, that was some goal thinking that solved, finding good. And then I started thinking about balanced scorecards because balanced scorecards, really what those are is a way of expressing how you're accomplishing the sum of your goals. I began to think then about this idea of a KPI, key performance indicator that is saying that's a measure at a strategic level. So it's not a key success outcome, which is maybe something a little bit more tactical, but it's at the strategic level. And I started thinking about KPIs in particular and balanced scorecards. And how then could you take these processes, this or this idea of love for people and get that translated into some better performance metrics or better KPIs. I was working at the time with a Christian homeless organization. And I started talking with them about this as part of their strategy process, and I just noticed it resonated with their mindset. And we continued working on it with this organization. And it resulted in a scorecard initially for that organization,  which then turned out to be relatively easy to translate, concept wise, into a scorecard for a board. A KPI has both a measure and a target. Let me just give you a few examples. A KPI has both a measure and a target, and it's based on a balance set of perspectives. And so one example might be a board that wants to measure giving and getting, you've probably seen that as an issue, Tommy, and some of the boards that you work with, their concern is that the giving and getting the donations direct and indirect are not sufficient or not what the development department wants.  Some boards the chairman in collaboration with the CEO might say, this is a minimum gift. It's $10,000. If you want to be on our board, you're going to give $10,000. It's a minimum gift. Or another board might take the approach of saying, we want you to be in the top three of charities or causes that you give to now. One of those ways is more focused on people and aligning motivations and commitments than the other. And that's the difference at a board level and at an organization level that we're trying to capture. How do you make these things more motivational?  Another area for a board might be in the continuous improvement boards that have a really high percentage of directors talking about how much they love their board and are likely to be doing a good job. It could be that when it comes to your board self-assessment, if your measure is going to be based on your board self-assessment, maybe within that board self-assessment, you want to have a measure and pull that up to the KPI level about what is your board of director's net promoter score? In other words, how many people on your board are going out and talking about that board positively and inviting them to come into the board? Maybe 80% of the board, at least, should be going out and doing that. And if they are, then that's a great metric for a board self-assessment. It's a very results-oriented self-assessment. You've got a great board if everybody's out there talking about what a wonderful board you have. And it's also doing great things, by the way, for your recruitment metric as well.  [00:10:27] Tommy Thomas: That question I hadn't heard.  This is fascinating.  [00:10:33] Caryn Ryan: So, whether it's for boards or leaders, a nonprofit who wants to do this for a ministry has to tweak the methodologies that are used in the for-profit sector. But I think if they do it, they're going to get this a board or the leaders of organizations, they're going to just get a huge payback. They're just going to find that it's transformational in terms of the quality of time that they spend working on their metrics, making sure their personal motivations don't have unintended consequences and that they demonstrate the love for people. So, this is not something that I think a lot of people are thinking about, Tommy, and I can see working on this more as my role. So, mission will become less operational, but there's something in here that there's a word here that needs to be spread a little bit and different ways of thinking that we as Christians can offer to the rest of the world. ++++++++++++++++   [00:11:26] Tommy Thomas: A lot of people, most of us, would say that we've learned a lot in life through failure. In fact, maybe a lot of our stuff is learned through mistakes. If that's the truth, why are most of us so afraid to make a mistake?    [00:11:40] Caryn Ryan: I really think that it goes back to those two root causes that I was talking about before for leadership. Self-esteem and a desire for power or money or greed.  And if you have really low self-esteem, then I think you don't want to be judged. And because you don't want to be judged, then you don't take risks. And if you don't take risks, there's no reward. And then because there's no rewards, that goes and reinforces your low self-esteem. So it's this whole negative cycle of activities that just result in you not taking risks. But I would say too that if it's somebody who's power hungry, what you're going to see there is maybe not mistakes. It's more sins or heirs, of omission and commission really, that are just more, they're selfish, right? And so they're mistakes. They're either mistakes, in this life or in the next life. If you want to improve people's risk taking, you need to permit mistakes. And we need to also work on the root causes there.  We need to have systems and processes that make it safe, that don't trigger negative self-esteem, that make it okay for people to engage in risk taking, that set up rewards for risk taking. It's a kind of a whole system that we have to address if you want to fix this. But I think from a board perspective, and I know you're coming from that some of the time, there's also an issue of just needing to screen people who are willing to step past any kind of inner hesitations that they might have about, looking silly in front of their peers, for instance and who will just come out and say, it looks this way to me. And from a board perspective that seldom is going to be a mistake is going to generate a great conversation and improve outcomes for a board.  [00:13:43] Tommy Thomas: I want to go to financial accountability for a minute.  Because you live three or 400 miles south of the largest bank failure in recent days, the Silicon Valley Bank. And then you and I are both old enough to remember the Enron scandal. And in both of those situations, I think most people say the board is culpable. I guess the jury's still out on the bank but my hunch is that they'll find some culpability there. Take it. And they're not nonprofit organizations, but boards have responsibilities. How do you counsel your clients to have more candid conversations about financial accountability? [00:14:21] Caryn Ryan: That's such a great question, Tommy. I will say too, just for starters, that it's quite rare, I think for board members to have whatever it takes to come out and ask these top questions. The best of boards do, but the middle of the pack and the worst really don't. Now you start thinking then about what is in the best of boards that makes them allow conflict and allow tough questions to come out. And I think there's a variety of answers. But first, let me just say this. I want to point out an interesting statistic here because if you look at candidate or GuideStar, this is a rating entity for nonprofits. And that includes Christian nonprofits. They provide some statistics that could be of interest here to try to think through - who are the best of the best. It's not completely pertinent, but in their world, which is thousands and thousands of charities that they rank, only 5% get a ranking of gold, silver, or platinum status. And of those, it's a very limited percentage, maybe 15%, that get the platinum. So when you multiply that backwards, then it says that only about 1.5% of all the charities that get ranked get a platinum candid certification. Now, this is mainly just looking at financial results and transparencies, but I think it does show that being the top nonprofit, it's pretty rarefied world. It's that up in the stratosphere there is a top nonprofit or a top ministry. So then we code your question then about I think having a board that can ask the tough questions is a precursor to that, to being a top performing nonprofit. And so having a really great board. It is a risky proposition when a nonprofit CEO recruits only his/her friends or allies to the Board. There are barriers that we can see. I'm sure you've seen these often too, but it's not unusual for a CEO to recruit his or her friends or allies to the board. And that's never a good idea because it discourages a lot of times that friend from having an honest conversation about the nonprofit or something that's really important to their friend. And also on boards, it's not unusual to have a whole bunch of conflicts of interest. It just isn't dealt with or even surfaced by the board members. So when you have that, then you have the sometimes people aren't going to ask tough questions because they have a conflict of interest.  Another factor is that there's capability gaps. There are people who aren't able to read basic financial statements or financial reports. And I think financials, I'm coming at this from a financial perspective perhaps, but financials embody the impact of boards and their decisions, and their actions related to strategy. A board takes a decision. The decision unfolds as actions. The actions are translated into financial results. And so that's how a board gets to see how did I do with the strategic decisions that I made? But interestingly, a lot of times sports can't even read their financial statements. There's a lot of financial literacy questions there. So how can you ask tough questions if you can't read the financial statements or financial reports and understand them? And sometimes there are issues with what's delivered to boards too, in terms of information, but sometimes it's just a basic lack of understanding. I think too, there's also a fundamental issue that sometimes with boards, they don't get enough board development or board training and they really just don't understand their key role when it comes to accountability. And so, they don't understand that it's their job to ask the tough questions. These are a few things, but I think you put them all together, Tommy. And isn't it a wonder at all that any charities have boards that do ask the tough questions and that are excellent? There are a lot of pieces that all have to come together to make that happen. +++++++++++++++++   [00:18:11] Tommy Thomas: At the crux of any board is the Board Chair. Give me words and phrases that would describe the best chair you've ever seen or served under.  [00:18:20] Caryn Ryan: Okay. I would say some of the things that I've seen the chairman do… They're tough, but they're relational, right? They're goal driven, but they're people driven. They stick to a vision of what they have for the organization and for the board. They tend to be performance oriented. I think if you have board chairs who don't understand the value that the board is supposed to bring it's hard for them to be performance oriented. The best board chairs really understand deeply what the value this board is bringing to this organization. And therefore, because they understand that they're able to act in that way. So I see those are some of the characteristics that differentiate a great board leader from a less than great board leader. [00:19:11] Tommy Thomas: Do you think every board needs a glass half empty person?  [00:19:16] Caryn Ryan: Does the board need that kind of a person? No. I guess it depends on how you define that, Tommy. So, for me if you mean by that, that there's a person who can see that they're on the side of half empty, that there's upsides and downsides, right? Then maybe. But in general, I think when a board comes together, they need to be so enthusiastic, so passionate about the mission and vision. So, the ability to look at an opportunity and say, no our glass is not half empty. I know where we want to go as a board, and we're going to fill this glass, right? They're going to say, we're going to absolutely fill this glass. We're going to pivot and do what we have to do because maybe there are some circumstances out there that are making some people think the glass is half empty, but we're going to pivot. We're going to figure out what we need to do. Always moving down the field toward the goalpost, toward the vision for the organization. So I think if people can try to look at environments and circumstances and say, how do we get the most from these?  How do we use this? Change this, maybe this negative circumstance. How do we use this negative environment? How do we use this risky situation? How do we just use this to help us down the goalpost? Or if we just absolutely can't find a way, how do we dodge it for now so we can come back and get back on track later? Is there a better way for a board member to function? [00:20:39] Tommy Thomas:   Talk a little bit about the CEO Evaluation and the Board.  You've seen a lot of boards. What's some best practices you see there?  [00:20:48] Caryn Ryan: How about for starters doing it? That to me is critical and mostly what I've seen over the years are annual assessments. When it's done. What I see is annual assessments sometimes every two years. When I've helped boards, I sit on boards that I've helped. What I've done is I've stolen shamelessly from other organizations to develop an assessment. And by the way, I don't think you need to be overly concerned with whether a professional developed this assessment. Most board members know this is what's important for us and for the CEO. Just write those questions out and, go or go steal them from somebody and tweak them a bit to make them fit your circumstances. I've noticed other nonprofits are very generous in sharing that way. They're happy to say, this is my evaluation tool. But it's important too, to just do it and to remember too, it's not the tool, it's the conversation around it.  You're actually using that tool because you want to improve. If it's a Board evaluation, you want to improve the Board. If it's a CEO evaluation, you want to give it to the CEO to develop the CEO. And sometimes to make a tough decision on retention. But a lot of times it's for the development and the good of the CEO and the organization. So don't focus on the what, focus on the how, when it comes to these evaluations, and keep in mind what the goal is, right? To encourage and to support and to develop your CEO. [00:22:13] Tommy Thomas: I talked to Jerry White, The Board Chair for The Navigators International, yesterday.  And Jerry's comment was that whatever comes out in the evaluation shouldn't be a surprise.  [00:22:22] Caryn Ryan: That's quite true because if it does turn out to be a surprise, Jerry is absolutely correct. You've had a trust breakdown. The results of the Board's evaluation of the CEO should not be a surprise to the CEO.  If that happens you have a breakdown in trust and communications. When you have that big of a communications breakdown, there's a trust dynamic at work there. And that has to be treated as a separate issue and a precursor to really doing CEO evaluations. You first have to address that trust issue, what is causing the trust issue?  And you have to get that out of the way before you can then have reasonably productive conversations around an assessment.  That's such a common dynamic, Tommy. [00:22:56] Tommy Thomas: Jerry said that, I'm probably paraphrasing, but something to the effect of the evaluation should really be going on overtime and not just every 12 months or whatever.  [00:23:06] Caryn Ryan: He's absolutely right. So there should be informal feedback occurring. Some of the better boards, I've seen the chairman meeting monthly with the CEO, right? They have lunch, an informal kind of lunch. And they're having a very frank and relational though dialogue during the month about, what's going, what's going wrong. It's a chance and opportunity for linkages and feedback to the board and back. And so that in and of itself is building trust and leading to the ability for the board to have a positive session when it comes to the performance management. But I'll say this, even when that's occurring at which it does in the best board, there are going to be, because the CEO Evaluation is the sum of all, typically of all the board members. It's not always the case. Sometimes the chairman will do it, or they'll select a few people to do it, but a lot of times it's the whole board. There's almost a benefit to seeing that total perspective because maybe there's an aspect of it that's a surprise. The overall flow is in accord with what the chairman and CEO have been talking about and having dialogue on through the year. But there's a couple of points that generally come out that make that wrap up in the annual evaluation valuable. There's something about the faith life of the CEO that hasn't been addressed and it's coming out and there's a way to have a conversation in a different kind of pulling up. Over the past year and maybe even looking forward a little bit into the challenges, it's just a way of pulling up above the fray and looking with a little bit more distance at the year that can generate a couple of new revelations. But I totally agree with Jerry. There shouldn't really be a lot of surprises on that because there should be this ongoing dialogue. +++++++++++++++++++ [00:24:44] Tommy Thomas: I want to ask you one question, then I'll close. My next to the last question has to do with succession planning and the board. At what point should that begin to occur? And how does the board address that without the CEO thinking? I'm a short termer.  [00:25:03] Caryn Ryan: Okay. Yeah, that's great.  I'm dealing with that right now at one of my one of the boards that I sit on. And I've just dealt with that last year as well. And it works both ways if it works all, all different ways. So let me just talk about one where the CEO does get the feeling. If you have this conversation, they're a short termer. I want to just say first of all, that can sometimes go back to the trust issue again, right? When there's a lack of trust between the board and the CEO then, and you bring up the question of succession planning, the first thing that goes of course into the CEO's mind is, oh, I'm getting fired.  I'm a short termer here.  So that has to again, be addressed, the trust issue before you can have productive conversations around succession planning. But even longer term issues are going to take some time to get resolved. There's something you can always do on the succession plan that's very short term and that every single board must have in place. And that is you need a succession plan in case of an emergency. If your CEO becomes ill, is hit by a bus, whatever, right? You need an emergency succession plan that is an interim structure or very well thought through way that you'll manage in the absence of the CEO.  And usually, it's not going to bring out the same negative feeling for the CEO.  On the part of the CEO because they understand that, oh yeah, if I'm not there, we need to have some interim structure. And so, they'll begin helping the Board and thinking through, look, okay, if something happens to me, let's make this person on our staff, the interim, or let's pull this Board Member out and see if they'll be the interim. Or they'll start to engage in the ideas for how that could work in an interim structure. And as long as you can get that interim structure put in place and everybody's in agreement that it's workable, that then gives a chance during the interim structure for the Board to go out and begin doing a search to find a replacement candidate. Regarding succession planning for a Founder – She/he just might not be willing to step aside. They might have created a whole lack of number twos in the organization who can step in, even in an emergency. It just may not be anybody. So that's a different situation where the board needs to probably, in addition to working on trust, which can be very difficult with the founder. You might be off the board if you start having those kinds of conversations. But what you can do as a board is do your research. How you would do a search. You can get your research done on executive search firms who could step in and help you. You can just keep in mind, it takes and Tommy, you're the one who should be telling your podcast listeners this, but it's a long process to do a search. You've got to set up a search committee. You have to figure out how you're going to recruit, the person. You've got to have an approach. You have to execute it, you have to review the candidates. It's just really time consuming. You at least have to think through all of these, how that's a minimum thing, even if it's a founder situation. So I'd say two things. Number one, for sure, have an interim emergency succession plan, no questions asked. That's an absolute minimum mandate for every board. And number two, if you're on a founder board, you have to do some special extra work along the side with networking, quiet networking, just to figure out the process and figure out how you would do, how would you do that if something did happen to your founder, if your founder's not willing to participate or help with that.  Does that make sense?  [00:28:32] Tommy Thomas: Yeah. The founder conversation is probably a three or four podcast discussion that I haven't had yet. Maybe I'll have you back with two or three other panelists and we'll talk about founders because I did some research three or four years ago on that, and it's an easier said than done proposition. [00:28:49] Caryn Ryan: Yes, I totally agree, and I'd love to hear the wisdom of some other panelists on this one too, because we all encounter these founder situations.  [00:28:58] Tommy Thomas: So, let's go to my last question.  Somebody comes to you next week, they want to have breakfast or lunch, and somebody has asked them to serve on the Board of a nonprofit, and they're coming to you saying, Caryn, what should I be thinking about? [00:29:13] Caryn Ryan: I'd say, if they ask that question, they're on track to be a good board member first of all. Because sometimes people will jump into these situations without asking that very question. But what I would give somebody who's thinking about joining a board the advice is number one,  For a nonprofit Board Member - Does the mission of the organization excite my passion? Am I passionate about it? I think if you're not passionate about what the organization is doing, it's just not going to work. It's just not going to interest you inherently. So, you have to be able to see this as a way to realize or support your passion. Number two I would talk about - I would think about conflicts of interest. I was recently counseling the Executive Director of an organization who'd been asked to serve on a board where there were some competitive aspects to her organization. So we talked that through. And she in effect decided, no, there's too many conflicts of interest here for me to take that board position. Number three might be do you have the time? Okay. So, there's a real issue. You need to dig in and understand how much time is it going to take. Do you have to serve on committees? How much time do the committees take? How many, how frequently are the board meetings? Is there a retreat every year that you have to go to? So you really need to add up the time and make sure that you're able to make that commitment. I'd say those are three of the big things that I see with people. And a lot of times I'll start doing positive coaching to people too, in terms of, also, why don't you ask yourself, what development will I personally get by sitting on the Board? What will it do for me and my professional development or my development as a person and a human being? And sometimes that can make the difference. They can say, I really don't have the time to do this, but I need to do this because I really believe it's going to focus and sharpen at home this strategic skill set that I need to be successful in something else that I'm doing in life. And so, they'll do it and they'll be really glad, because they'll get that development. Just let's think about that lens too.  [00:31:05] Tommy Thomas: That's interesting.  A good friend, Joe Arms, who used to be the Chairman of the Baylor Board is the CEO of a large private sector company.  He said he makes that a part of the management training program for his employees that he encourages board participation in the nonprofit sector in Dallas as part of their grooming. [00:31:27] Caryn Ryan: I can see that you get a lot of personal development when you're a part of a board and it's where you're really learning that what you learn about governance is not so distinct from what you need to be a top senior executive in a corporation. There are just a lot of parallels there. So I can really see why he'd say that.  So he makes a very good observation. [00:31:48] Tommy Thomas:  Caryn, thank you. This has been a great conversation. I just believe our listeners have picked up some things that probably hadn't been covered in other board conversations, so thank you for taking this time with me. I really appreciate it.  [00:32:03] Caryn Ryan: Absolutely.  Thank you, Tommy. I'm so glad to have reconnected with you and been able to remember some of my fond memories with some of the people who are in your network as we've talked.  [00:32:14] Tommy Thomas:  Life has been good to me over the years, and the two men you mentioned, Nick Isbister and Rob Stevenson - both of those guys they put a lot of time into this project, and I'm grateful for their part in my life.  [00:32:26] Caryn Ryan: I'm grateful too and I can add you to my circle of gratitude now.  [00:32:30] Tommy Thomas: Our guest next week will be Alec Hill The President Emeritus of InterVarsity Christian fellowship. You may remember Alec from Episodes 18 and 19, where he and Rudy Hernandez, a former board chair at InterVarsity discuss the working relationship between the CEO and the Board Chair in a nonprofit organization.  Alec is also a prolific writer. He's a regular contributor to postings on the Christian Leadership Alliance website. One of his recent posts was titled Finding Gold in Manure. In that article Alec shares lessons that he's learned for some of the hard times in his life. And in our conversation we'll dig into some of those lessons.    Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas 2021 Distinguished Alumni Recipient Caryn Ryan, ‘79 Missionwell Website Transforming Performance Measurement: Rethinking the Way We Measure and Drive Organizational Success by Dean Spitzer   Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Caryn Ryan's LinkedIn Profile  

[00:00:00] Jerry White: Risk has to be uncertain categories. There's legal risk, there's financial risk, and then there's what I call uncontrolled risk of things you don't expect that the government may impose. What if they decide for our property at Glen Erie that it no longer is going be tax exempt? Or what if the state were to do that sort of thing? Those are risks over which we have no control. The risk on leveraged investments, I think, is quite important. For instance, you may propose to a larger organization a $3 million project, but the money is not in the bank. And you have four donors who said they'll fund it, but will they, and if they do, what voice should they have in it? That's a huge thing.  Money given with strings attached is really quite risky. +++++++++++++++++++++ [00:01:02] Tommy Thomas: In this episode, we will conclude the conversation that we began with Jerry White in Episode 85. If you didn't hear that episode, Jerry White is the President Emeritus of The Navigators International. Prior to that he enjoyed a distinguished career in the United States Air Force, retiring as a two-star general. One of the reasons I wanted Jerry to be a guest is because of the depth of his nonprofit board service.  Among the boards he has served include  World Vision,  The Navigators.  Christian Leadership Alliance.  The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. The Lausanne Committee on World Evangelization.  The Air Force Association.  Let's pick up the conversation where we were beginning to discuss board governance.  Let's shift over to board service. How did your first board show up? [00:01:56] Jerry White: My first board that I served on was a small organization and besides a church board, every board is different. When I got into leading boards, like the Christian Leadership Alliance and being on boards like World Vision and leading The Navigator board the biggest thing is who you have on the board.  And that they understand what their role is on the board.  And my view is that they're not operational. They don't make operational decisions, and they give the CEO a clear path to glide on. And hold that person accountable. And on the board service, I found it extremely important to have people of varied backgrounds and competencies so that we weren't all monolithic and the board could not be a rubber stamp board, whatever the leader wants. Yeah, that's fine. Just go ahead and do it. But to take on true, what I call policy governance, and to realize that you aren't running it, but you're holding the CEO accountable for what they say they're going to do. And once in a while you have to intervene.  [00:03:14] Tommy Thomas: You mentioned having the right people on the board.  What is the secret sauce? [00:03:20] Jerry White: One secret sauce is you don't bring them on just because they've got money. That's probably the worst criteria you can have if people do not share the vision of that organization on whose board they serve. You don't want them on there. And if they happen to have wealth and are generous people, that's fine, but we don't own them. They have to be people who give more broadly. And before we bring someone on the board we have to first make sure for me, in the Christian world, to make sure that there are people of spiritual maturity. Not just people with a high reputation or lead a big church or are well known. I would not care if none of the people on my board were well known as long as they were people of high integrity and then have had some experience. We're always pushing for getting a younger generation of board members, but there's a limit to that. You have to be sure that they're really qualified as they come in. And then the next thing that I feel is extremely important is you train. You train them how to be a board member and what's expected of them as a board member. In a few weeks, I'll be going to Kenya with The Navigators and we'll be gathering the board chairman from all over the world for a time of interaction and sharing. That's a trickier one, by the way, when you become a board chair, is how to become a board chair, particularly in our developing world where things aren't quite westernized as much. Yeah. And what should a board really do? Because people have different experiences. It's different from a second board, a secondary board who has financial responsibility and is held accountable for the quantitative results of the organization. That's a whole different picture, a different kind of board. [00:05:40] Tommy Thomas:  Let's go to the board chair. Give me some words and phrases that would describe the best board chair you've ever seen or served under.  [00:05:48] Jerry White: I'll tell you, there are two board chairs that I think of. One was a man by the name of Clay Brown. He wasn't the board chair, because I was chairman at the time. But he was certainly the key senior statesman on our board. He was measured. He was wise. He had a strong business background, and he had a passion for what we did. Our current Board Chair for The Navigators is doing an absolutely remarkable job and he leads several companies but has really given himself to being Chairman of The Navigator US board. The other thing is that the Board Chairman cannot be a jack of all trades. In other words, they can't be chairman of five different boards at once. Because I don't think anybody who has another job has that kind of time. But in knowing that they bear a particular responsibility within that organization to draw together the board, the executive team or the executive committee, and to really help lead them and keep them in their track and their track being on the policy governance side. And so the board chairs, and when I've done a board, I hope I've done this, is to really be prepared. You do not do this on the backhand, walking into a board meeting and 10 minutes ahead of time asking the CEO – what's the agenda? [00:07:25] Tommy Thomas:  Speaking about that working relationship, I know that's critical. Think back on your experience. How often does the Board Chair need to meet with his or her CEO? [00:07:35] Jerry White: First of all, they need to be friends, but I remember as a board member of a particular organization I wanted to be friends with the CEO and very much was. Then I became Board Chair and I said to him, our relationship is going to be a little different. I am your friend, but also, I'm accountable for the direction of the organization. And therefore, I'm going to be asking things of you that maybe I would not do if I was just a good buddy walking alongside and wanting to affirm you. So I think you need to be friends, but you'll also need to know that you have the responsibility for the policy direction of the organization and for the health and wellbeing of the CEO.  [00:08:27] Tommy Thomas: Go to that board meeting for a minute. What's been your best experience and who sets the agenda for the Board Meeting? [00:08:32] Jerry White:  For me, the Executive Committee needs to set the agenda. It needs to be proposed by the CEO because he knows the action items. And you've got certain performer things you've got to do on accountability of finances and income and disbursements and so forth and certain things on personnel. But I would want the CEO to come up with a list of what needs to be addressed, work with that CEO and perhaps the CFO to create an agenda with the Executive Committee that actually says how is this going to serve the work? And what are the decisions?  And I have three ways of assessing an agenda for the Board Meeting. What is information? We don't have to make any decision on it.  What is counsel? The CEO or somebody wants counsel on a particular item.  What decision needs to be made? So, every topic in the board meeting, I like to write along the side, the margin, inform counsel, decide. [00:09:48] Tommy Thomas: From a functional point of view, they wouldn't necessarily be in any order. They just as they come up, they're one of those three.  [00:09:58] Jerry White: No, it'd be one of the three. Your board meeting is usually divided into segments.  The CEO Report The Field Ministry Report The CFO Report Then there's a legal report. There may be certain personnel decisions that need to be affirmed. And by the way, that could be another way you would put it to affirm a decision. That's a little weak. And so you would structure your meeting not according to what you're going to decide, but according to what topics need to be addressed in the 24 hours you have together. And by the way, to really require that homework be done on the part of the staff making the decisions that “read-aheads” are there. And the right people come to make reports inside the meetings.  ++++++++++++++++++++   [00:10:51] Tommy Thomas: When somebody joins your board what does onboarding look like? [00:10:55] Jerry White: The onboarding looks for several organizations I've been working for two to three years with before they come on board, talking with them about it, seeing their interest,  getting a biography, bringing it to what I would call the nomination committee of the board. And the good boards that I work with have a roster of people that they're talking to that's very confidential and some of them never come on the board. And then as they are approaching it, you may even ask someone to actually sit in on a board meeting. And to see whether or not it meets their expectations. That isn't always possible. But in one board that I'm on, we have some junior members on it. This is on a board where we have younger leaders who come and serve for two years, and they don't stay on the board, just to give them experience. But then when you're onboarding, every board annually at least, there needs to be, in my mind, an orientation for the board where you go over the history of the board, you go over things. So they're not just in a befuddled mystery at terminology and history. It's like being in a family joke and nobody knows what the story was behind it. They have things that are ongoing and they have no clue. We need to bring them up to speed, both emotionally, historically, and personally. And it doesn't need to be long. It's for maybe half a day. And I've done this in a secular organization too, insisting that no one come on the board who doesn't have some orientation, both as to what a board does and what a board has done. [00:12:55] Tommy Thomas: Do you do a meeting evaluation or how do you keep your meetings fresh?  [00:13:00] Jerry White: Most boards do have a little evaluation afterward that they fill out. It's often, Tommy, their perfunctory and there of some limited value, the value mainly being that you asked, but I think the Chairman and the CEO, when they see things happening in the board, that afterwards they need to interact with them and saying, what do you think about it? How do you feel that board meeting went? And now that you've been in on X number of board meetings, say to tell me what you think and how can we help you be a better board member? Committee assignments are pretty important. Also, when I went on one board, it took me, Tommy, it took me two years to really figure out what was going on. And I served nine years and it was such a complex organization that it was really hard and took a lot of work to try and understand the dynamics behind this organization  [00:14:08] Tommy Thomas: Let me ask you to respond to this quote. “You need a director on the board who will be a pleasant irritant. Someone who will force people to think a little differently.  That's what a good board does.”  [00:14:21] Jerry White: In one board that I'm on, we appoint someone at every board meeting to be what we call a responsible skeptic. And that person is designated ahead of time. And that person, their job in that board meeting is to be a bit skeptical. Now, I think you have to be a little careful about always having a person who's always skeptical. I don't think I want a board member who every time something comes up, they raise their eyebrow, and you wonder what they're thinking. I think everybody ought to be a little skeptical at some time. And the main thing is if they don't understand something they need to ask. In other words, they need to do it. I was in a board meeting recently where a particular decision was in the process. And two of us on the board, I was an emeritus to the board, and the other was on the board. And I could tell there was a bit of discomfort. And so the chair asked that other person, they hadn't said anything, what do you think? And came up with a pretty good counter. Now I haven't got real good hearing, so I couldn't hear what he said. And then the board chair said, Jerry, what do you think? And I was like a deer caught in the headlights. And I said I couldn't hear what he said. And I said, we said exactly the same thing. And what was moving down the road to be a crafted decision was put aside and not done. I'm very wary of creating board actions on the spot, a statement or whatever it may be. The best way is to say, would somebody take this and come up in three or four hours, take a coffee break and craft us a statement on what we're trying to do. So I do believe that the chair needs to be able to look in the eyeball all around the way and see if there are some questions or if someone has been particularly silent, I think you need to say what do you think?  ++++++++++++++++   [00:16:34] Tommy Thomas: How do you draw that quiet board member out?  Some people just don't speak up unless they have something to say, which is probably a good thing. But how do you draw the quiet person out?  [00:16:46] Jerry White: I just say, Jack, what do you think about that? I say be very direct. I say, you've been listening to this discussion. Do you have anything to say? I don't want to force him to have to say something, but I say, this may be the expertise of the person that I'm asking. And I'll say Joan, your expertise is in this area, I know you've been through this before. What are we not hearing? What questions do you have? And that gives them freedom to speak out. And the other thing is I don't think people should speak out, particularly declaratively. That is, I believe this, and you got to do this. And I don't like that because that puts themselves on the table. But people learn to be able to share in a non-confrontive fashion. [00:17:44] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to financial accountability. You and I are old enough to remember the Enron scandal, and then if you've been paying any attention to the last two or three days, you've seen the Silicon Valley Bank go under.  In both of those things, there was board culpability. Neither were nonprofit, but they will both board culpability.  How do you get your boards to make sure you're addressing the financial aspect, a judiciary responsibility of the board?  [00:18:10] Jerry White:  It's a CEO's responsibility to make sure that the right questions are answered.  And it's got to be more than just an audit.  We want a clean audit. And you don't want to have to go to the bottom notes and say, here's something we should correct, but we need to guide the board through the financial realities of what we're doing. But at the end of it, I think you need to have a risk analysis that says, okay, where are we vulnerable? For instance, in our litigious society today, we have a lot of risk, and I think of ministries that have Christian camps and all the sexual liabilities and all of that. They are at risk all the time when you're working with minors and then I think people need to ask questions of the CFO and the auditor, where do you see us being at risk? What would happen if, what if happened? You have a September 11 or you have a Covid pandemic. And you have to say, our whole income stream is going to be jeopardized. And then I think you need to look and say, where are our major vulnerabilities for both expenditure as well as income? Now that's, it's very different in a Christian organization than it is a secular organization like an Enron or the banks or whatever it is. The fault there goes so that people don't ask questions, or that the actual realities have been hidden from it and just saying, oh, it'll be okay.  ++++++++++++++++++= [00:19:56] Tommy Thomas: From your perspective, how does the board get involved in strategic planning?  [00:20:02] Jerry White: Boy, that is a good question, Tommy. The question is, who does the strategic planning? Okay. Let's say that we're in a very small developing organization amid developing, and a large organization, they're very different and the very smallest organizations, the board may be highly engaged in the strategic plan because it's such a small organization and they're so fragile. As a general rule of thumb, the board may do strategic thinking, but strategic planning has to be on the part of the CEO and his or her staff. And the plan needs to be brought to the board for their interaction. And then approval. And that's particularly true with a large organization. The board can't do strategic planning. They can do some strategic planning for the board. That is, how should we develop our board? What expertise do we need? But as far as a ministry for most organizations, as large as the navigators or crew or some others, they aren't gonna know the details of what's going on out in the field or how they have to pretty well react and respond to the strategic planning initiatives that they may come up with. How many staff, what countries are we doing to go into? What are we not going to do? What are we gonna stop doing etc. So the board certainly needs to approve the strategic plan. Chances are, even when they do that, They won't know it very well. I'm just sorry that, when you're not, when you don't have to carry out a strategic plan, it's hard to really know it. [00:22:00] Tommy Thomas: The ones that created it, that have been involved in hammering it out, they're the ones that know it. [00:22:06] Jerry White: That's right. And then you have to, with every strategic plan, you have to set, have a set of outcomes and a set of risks, and then you have to say, how much is it going to cost to implement this? [00:22:22] Tommy Thomas: I think the risk thing, that could almost be a podcast in and of itself. I interviewed Dr. Sandra Gray, the President Emeritus at Asbury University and she was a former banker before she got into higher ed. And her thought was that nonprofit boards probably don't pay enough attention to the risk of the organization. [00:22:40] Jerry White: I think there's no question on that, especially risk has to be uncertain categories.  There's legal risk, there's financial risk, and then there's what I call uncontrolled risk of things you don't expect that the government may impose. What if they decide for our property at Glen Erie that it no longer is going to be tax exempt? Or what if the state were to do that sort of thing? Those are risks over which we have no control and the risk on leveraged investments, I think is quite important. For instance, you may propose to a larger organization a $3 million project, but the money is not in the bank. And you have four donors who said they'll fund it, but will they, and if they do, what voice should they have in it?  That's a huge thing. Money given with strings on it is really quite risky.  [00:23:46] Tommy Thomas: Hadn't thought of that. [00:23:46] Jerry White: And I've served on the board of the ECFA and they're very good at this. In terms of helping people think through risk and failure and financial accountability.  [00:24:01] Tommy Thomas: Let's look at the CEO evaluation.  I know you've been involved in a number of those, and you've been evaluated as a CEO. What are some takeaways? [00:24:10] Jerry White: You must be evaluated. Now we have a number of kinds of evaluations. You have a 360 evaluation, and some people are very skilled at that. It's very threatening to some CEOs, but it's necessary. I feel that there needs to be an evaluation within the organization, I had one. I had someone who evaluated me every year and they had the freedom, and they did call my wife, call my kids, talked to my coworkers, my peers, talked to those who worked for me, gave a free reign to ask certain questions. The questions need to be carefully thought through. They can't be so invasive. But the evaluation is of several levels. One is certain on a moral personal level. I do not think a committee can do that. Every CEO needs to have the kind of people in their lives who will blow the whistle on them if they say anything wrong. And the small Executive Committee needs to be aware of how that could happen. The second in terms of an evaluation is performance against set out goals. The third is relational. How's their team going? What do they think? What are the issues? And to give the feedback to the CEO and I think to give it privately and then in the board, and we do this to give a summary analysis, but the board should not be privy to the detailed questions. It's a really touchy process. And the evaluation needs to be, not be a pass fail, but Loren Sanny taught me it should be a progress review. How are you making progress toward the things that you have said you want to do? [00:26:15] Tommy Thomas: Let me close with a question that I ask often, particularly to people that have been on boards a long time as you have. How has board service changed over the last decade?  [00:26:25] Jerry White: I'm not sure about the last decade, but certainly over the last two decades the area of risk and financial accountability has increased tremendously. The litigiousness of our society has made a tremendous impact on how a board functions. So those two things, the financial accountability and the potential lawsuits and things of that nature. Tommy, I don't know that I can make a generalist statement about how boards have changed, but I can say that through the last 20 to 30 years, the boards have become more important and more vital to our organization's future than they were a number of years ago. Many years ago, even in The Navigators, the board was a cheering section for Dawson Trotman and Lawrence Annie.  Go get 'em and thanks for letting us know what's going on. To a point where we had to be accountable for the finances. 911 changed everything, by the way, particularly for anyone operating internationally. When you're sending money across international boundaries, you have a whole different level of accountability financially imposed by the government. And I'm speaking only from the viewpoint of the United States, and you get into all these other countries with all different kinds of demands and requirements and corruption and what have you. The boards have become far more important to the organization's health. And I think the public has a right to know who's on your board. And when I look at an organization as I've done even the last few days, and I look through who the board members are, it isn't that I need to know them, but that they're there as real people with real names that if one needed to, you could connect with them. ++++++++++++++++++++++ I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jerry White. If you're ever at a conference where Jerry is speaking or leading a breakout session, make sure you attend those sessions. We all have so much to learn from Jerry White. Our guest next week is Paul Mauer. Paul is the president of Montreat College.  When Paul was selected to be the President of Montreat, the college wasn't very far from closing its doors. What has happened at Montreat over the past nine years is nothing short of miraculous.  [00:29:06] Paul Maurer: I started my first presidency 13 or 14 years ago, and I remember going to the president's conferences and coming back after two or three of those, and I said to my cabinet, here's my takeaway, change or die. And then I was out of the presidency for a couple years. I began to go back to those meetings again. When I came to Montreat nine years ago, I came back to my cabinet, I said, they've inserted the words fast change, faster, die. We've taken on the mindset of a startup. So, we consider ourselves a 107-year-old startup. We're not a turnaround. We're not maintainers.  We're not traditionalists. We try to employ the principles of a startup, meaning we're creating something new. And so, I think in the next five to ten years, we're going to see a pretty dramatic change in the number of colleges and universities in the United States. The enrollment cliff is real. The declining birth rates are real. And it's going to have a really major impact on the number of schools that close.   Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Navigators Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability Christian Leadership Alliance   Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Jerry White's LinkedIn Profile  

[00:00:00] Lisa Cummins: I think the question I would ask is what is your employee turnover? And because I have found nonprofits come and go, employee turnover helps me understand what your commitment is to, what your ability is to lead, and what your consistency is with your values.  Because if you're not consistent, employees won't stay long. ++++++++++++++++++++= Tommy Thomas: Today, we're continuing the conversation that we began last week with Lisa Trevino Cummins. Lisa spent the first 12 plus years of her career with Bank of America where she expanded the bank's community development initiative to become one of the first national corporations to partner with faith-based organizations in underserved neighborhoods. From Bank of America, Lisa was called to help launch the White House Community and Faith-Based Initiative. In 2003, she started Urban Strategies where she continues her work to make resources more available to underserved communities.  Since founding Urban Strategies, Lisa has been a catalyst of several initiatives that resulted in almost $40 million of new programming focused in low-income communities.  Let's pick up the conversation when I was asking her about the early days of Urban Strategies.  [00:01:23] Tommy Thomas: You're probably not the first founder I've interviewed but you'd be one of the first.  What was the genesis of Urban Strategies?  [00:01:29] Lisa Cummins: Yeah, I mentioned that I worked for 12 years with Bank of America and about the last five years of that, and again, I had this parallel path of working in the bank and being fairly successful in that. And then the second parallel path to that was working in the church. And really that's where my heart was about year seven or eight into this journey of the bank. I started questioning why those two paths were divergent. Why, if I'm talking about if I'm working in the bank to address communities in need and why is that different? Why is my church life not connected there? I read a book called The Jesus I Never Knew by Philip Yancey.   And that really helped highlight the passages in the scripture that, even though I've read the Bible three or four times, I really never saw those passages in Matthew about serving those in need, about loving your neighbor, about justice, about God's heart for the poor. When he talks to the Israelites and judges has some judgment on the Israelites because of how they treated the marginalized. So, I had this, what I call a “holy agitation” and where my spirit was struggling with this, and about that time the Lord, it was the Lord. But the bank asked me to move to St. Louis to help start the community development group I had in Texas, to help start that in a bank that we had purchased in the Midwest. So, I had five states reporting to me. Developing from the ground up. It was a hard move because I was really on the fast track in San Antonio politically and socially. So I ended up moving to the Midwest and it was a hard transition. We didn't know anyone there. That community was not familiar with the culture that I came from. Spaghetti sauce substituted for hot sauce at the time, and that's hard for a Texan. And during that time we ended up at a church that was not part of my tradition. I was from a Pentecostal background. This church was a PCA church. And long story short,  We saw, in action, the answer to that question and that holy agitation I was wrestling with because this congregation was very intentional about reconciling people to God and reconciling people to one another. And so, you had a congregation before multiculturalism became popular. They were really living that out and very intentional about it. And that became a pivotal point for me in terms of recognizing the role, the opportunity, the obligation that the faith community had to serving its neighbors, to loving its neighbors. And one thing led to the other. My pastor in Texas, I had brought him to the Midwest, said, you got to see what I'm talking about. And so he said, he came 24 hours. He said, Lisa, my world's been turned upside down and I'm going to meet with the governor next week. Can I tell him about this? I'm like, sure, you can tell whoever you want to. It happened to be Governor George W. Bush. And so, when they met it wasn't long after that I got a call from the governor's office and said, hey, we want to understand what you're doing and what you're working on because that's something we want to do in Texas.  And so, the governor became president and then they asked, we want help.  We want to develop this faith-based initiative nationally. Can you come to the White House and help us do that? I had three kids under three. The twin boys that were six months and my daughter, who was two and a half and my husband.  We moved to DC and ended up working there for a couple years.  [00:05:23] Tommy Thomas: So, when you finally spun off and went out on your own what was that first year like? [00:05:27] Lisa Cummins: The first year was, when you work in the government, it's illegal to set up your business for when you're going to be, for when or relationships or anything, or when you're going to exit.  I exited because I felt that my calling was to work with the church to love its neighbors.  I had come to the end of what I could do with that internal to the government. And I saw the need and opportunities on the outside of the government to still further move along that calling. And so, I left the government, and I remember driving. I was like, I'm going to do this. I don't know how, I don't know where, but this is the work I have to continue. And so, I let folks know that was happening. And I got a couple of small contracts. I remember that first check, I don't know, it was $10,000 or something. And I was so proud of that because I am entrepreneurial and just that sense of being able to build something and then get paid for it was pretty cool. But it was a time of learning. It was a time of flexibility. It was a time of really trying to find my way. I remember there's a fellow named Gordon Loux, I don't know if you know him. He always said, Lisa, the challenge you're going to have is figuring out where you're going to focus. And he's right.  We do all kinds of work, but the common thread has been low income or it's not low income. The common thread has been working with Latino populations. Why? Because that's what I know best. And working with the church. And today we do that in all 50 states. We do that in Puerto Rico, we do that in Central America and do in all kinds of arenas. I'm sorry, I think I diverted from your original question. I remember Tommy, I will say one vivid recollection I have, it was about August, September of that first year of 2002. This is our 20th anniversary at Urban Strategies. And I remember being really frustrated because I saw the need was so significant in communities and I didn't have any resources. I remember a woman saying, Lisa, I don't think we need federal funds because God owns the cattle on a thousand hills. I'm like, I agree that God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, but where those resources are, they're not being released to the communities I work in. So where I do have access is federal funding. And I was wrestling with that idea and wrestling with God about why is it so hard to get resources? And I never got an answer on why, but I got the comfort of understanding that if I'm doing God's work, God's going to provide. And so, I was able to let that go. Let that go. And God has.  [00:08:22] Tommy Thomas: So, what counsel would you give an up-and-coming wannabe founder?  [00:08:29] Lisa Cummins: I go back to what that pastor told me 20 something years ago, to make sure it's what you're called to do. The work that is called to do. Two is not make your ownership the goal but make your goal that calling.   That calling can be pursued in a number of different ways. It can be in partnership, it could be like, I was in banking, I was very much an entrepreneur in banking even though I was part of this structured company of 60,000 employees. But I was running my own thing. So, I think it's really important to not think, not to lead with the form or the structure, but lead with the calling and purpose. And I think the form of structure then will come and will be made known. You'll understand what that is. If in fact that means setting up your own organization, I would say keep your costs low. I'm still at the office where, this call is from my home. So, I was doing remote work 20 years ago, before it became popular. Our headquarters folks asked us today, where is your headquarters? I'm here in Arlington and this has been my office for the last 20 years, but we don't have a headquarters because we're based all over the country. I didn't make those big expenses early on and so it gave me some freedom to not have to worry about how I was going to pay for those things. And it allowed me to focus in on again, what my purpose in calling had been.  ++++++++++++++++++++++=   [00:10:00] Tommy Thomas: Another question first. And you may have answered this all along the way, but can you think of a time when you felt like you had found your professional voice that you know, that you were comfortable in your skin? [00:10:13] Lisa Cummins: Yeah. Tommy, that's an interesting question. I think it depends on who is listening to that voice. I think being raised in a community where you're the first or you're the only one has caused me to be hesitant about my voice. Even among people who are well-meaning and I know are great folks, the differences in our upbringing, in our culture, in our understanding and our experiences would cause me to be comfortable in a second seat. Because for me to be comfortable, behind someone in leadership or behind someone that's front stage. I think there's some real benefit to that. Because I think that comes with having a sense of humility that requires me to really focus on what is it that matters to me. Is it that I'm at the front with a microphone or is it that this gets done right? And so, I think there's been a lot of that. Having said that, over time it's funny when people say wow, you're an expert at this. I'm like, I don't feel like it's just because I've lived longer, it's just because I have a few more gray hairs. That I've been able to speak on things. And so, I think in the last 10 years, I think I actually have become more comfortable in my voice. I have, and in some ways that's a sad reality because I think I had a lot to contribute prior to 10 years ago. And having said that, I think that I am not as concerned anymore about what others think, nor as concerned about what others might think. And there's a term that our culture uses today that's called gaslighting. And as I understand it, gaslighting is causing people to believe that it's their failure. That has resulted in x, y, z consequences rather than the person that's doing the gaslighting. And I think in some ways I've allowed myself to be in that place of being the individual, the part of a community that is at fault or is less than or it comes short and hasn't recognized the value that I bring to the table. I think Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book about David and Goliath that's along those lines about, everyone saw David as the minuscule person who's going to be tossed and defeated, etc. But David's experiences brought him some things that really allow, besides the divine, besides God being part of that story. But it allowed David to bring some understanding of resilience, of working under pressure of working with, few less resources, etc. That's what my community has brought to the table, and I think I've, over the last 10 years, I've owned that more than I had in the past.  [00:13:21] Tommy Thomas: Earlier in the conversation you were talking about transparency and maybe you said you might've got hurt a little bit there. This is a quote from Joyce Meyer that I'd like for you to respond to. She writes about what she calls the Judas Kiss Test - The test of being portrayed by friends that we have loved, respected, and trusted. Most people in positions of leadership for any length of time are likely to experience this.  [00:13:48] Lisa Cummins: Unfortunately, if I've experienced that more times than I'd like to, that I'd like to admit, and hopefully I haven't been the perpetrator of that for anyone else. I think when power and greed come to the picture things change and I think all of us are susceptible to that. And I think that I've had some very difficult situations that have been driven at, in hindsight by those two things. And I think for me, the key is what I need, I am always checking myself to make sure that I'm on the right side of that story. And if I'm not to make amends and to identify what there is that I can, that I need to adjust on my end. But yeah, there's been things, and I think any business owner, any leader,you're susceptible to folks who maybe at one time, they were the best of, they were the trusted confidant, but something changed in their environment. Something changed, and those that influenced them, something changed in their circumstances that caused them then to make this Judas kiss. Ironically, we're talking about it this week. But yeah, those are very hurtful and that's probably been the most difficult part of my career is those circumstances and, if I didn't care about folks it wouldn't matter. But the ones that hurt the most are the ones that were people you care about the most. That's where it's going to hurt the most. And it's just part of where we are, part of humanity. And so I try to learn from that. I try to also appreciate, a friend of mine said, Lisa, don't ever trust me without accountability,and she's my most trusted friend. But she said that to me because she loved me, and she knows that all of us have shortcomings. And I think accountability is key. And another friend told me, a banker that's been my friend now for the last 25 years, she's our CFO. She says check what is it, trust and verify. And so I'm learning to do that better. Trust and verify.  +++++++++++++++++   [00:16:04] Tommy Thomas: Let's switch over to board service. Because obviously you report to a board, you serve on several boards. And I just would appreciate some of your input here. So, when did your first board show up?    [00:16:16] Lisa Cummins: So actually Tommy, I'm an LLC so, technically, I don't have a board. Having said that, we do have a couple of projects that require a board. So, we've set up a board for those projects. And I don't have a board, not primarily, just because when I started the organization that was establishing a 501(c) 3 and all the process that goes with that just wouldn't happen fast enough for the kinds of things I was doing. Having said that, I do have people who I trust. And so I hold myself accountable to our CFO, to our employees. I hold myself accountable to, and then I have some outside friends that have been on the journey with me for decades who I hold myself accountable to. So having said that I do serve, I have served on a number of boards. And so, I think there are different kinds of boards. Some are boards where it's as a good friend said, nose in, hands out, and then other boards where it's like, we need you all in. So, it depends on where the organization is. Their life cycle, the maturity of the board organization, the kind of resources they have, etc, that determine then what kind of board you're going to have and what kind of board members that you need.  [00:17:36] Tommy Thomas: You've served on the World Vision Board. That's a big one, obviously.  Maybe you can highlight some differences about the big board like that versus some of the smaller boards you've served on. [00:17:47] Lisa Cummins: Yeah, so I think World Vision, it was a nine-year term, three, three-year terms. It was a great experience. I think I learned a lot and hopefully I was able to contribute from my experience and knowledge with equal value. I think that World Vision is a very large organization, and so the best way to serve them is by asking those tough strategic questions. And by those questions that really are looking at more systems and strategy policy versus. Another board here in my community that I've been part of where I was signing time cards and helping make calls on fundraising and those sorts of things. So, they're very different. I have served on a public board which is Texas Teacher Retirement System. It was only for about a year and a half because I had to withdraw since I was moving to DC, that board was very interesting. It's politically appointed members of the board. And I remember learning that I was approved to serve on that board. It was, at the time it was a 60 billion fund. I don't know what it is today. Probably double that if not more. But I remember I got a call from a gentleman, again, I hadn't been to a board meeting, just got word. And he says, hello, Lisa. This is Bo in his West Texas accent. Welcome to the board. What side are you on? Oh, I said I don't know, the teacher side. And it was a board where there were some issues that there would be sideline meetings on who's going to, who's going to join with who. And alliances met. That was crazy. And I was appointed by Governor Bush. And so, it's interesting and even serving in the Republican administration, I've never been a partisan person. I try to vote and do what I feel like is best according to my biblical perspective, and so folks assume I go this way on one item and another way on another item, and I don't do that. And so I think that on that, even on that board, whether it was talking about how you're going to invest funds, or you're going to, how much are you going to put in versus how much you're going to put in funds. There was political haggling going on. I've just tried to stay true to what my values are, and that's what I bring. I can't bring anything else. And so if that doesn't work, then that's probably not a good place for me.  ++++++++++++++++++   [00:20:35] Tommy Thomas: I've started asking in the last month or so, my Shark Tank question. If you were on a nonprofit version of a Shark Tank, what questions would you need answered before you opened your checkbook?  [00:20:48] Lisa Cummins: I was ready to tell you what my investment opportunity was. I have that one, I have a few of those ready.  I think the question I would ask is what is your employee turnover? Because I have found nonprofits come and go and employee turnover helps me understand what your commitment is to, what your ability is to lead, what your consistency is with your values. Because if you're not consistent, employees won't stay long. Maybe you can explain them once or twice, but if you have an ongoing record of employees that are leaving, then there's a problem there. The other thing I would ask is a lot of nonprofits talk about partners. Let's say, describe the continuum of partnership with these organizations. When you say your partner is this because you dropped off a leaflet at their door sometimes, that's okay. Depends on what the goal is or is this talking about someone who you know their name, right? You know their name and you know their story and so you're trying to get at it in a deeper way. Those kinds of things. Yeah, I think those are a couple of questions I would ask. I would also ask how well, and this is important, not just for, some people will say, this is a political thing and it's not. How well does your organization reflect the communities you're serving? Because if it doesn't, that means that there's probably a sense of a pejorative type of approach that is not going to be that way. What could be, and it'll result in less results than what could be. Does that make sense?  [00:22:43] Tommy Thomas: Yes. If a nonprofit calls you and they're looking for a little consulting and you're going to put together a dashboard of things that you would be looking at a glance to check on their health what would that dashboard look like. [00:22:56] Lisa Cummins:   Yeah, so I think it's who are you partnering with and what are the depths of those partners? Do you know how to partner, can you partner too? What is your employee retention rate? I think the third would be your 30, 60, 90-day accounts payables and 30, 60, 90-day receivables. What does that look like? And accounts payables are very concerning. Obviously if you're 60 days behind in paying, you're like, what's going on here? And how long has this been the case? And so that relates to some of the financials. I would look at the composition of leadership and experiences that they bring. I think I would also look at if, and I get calls all the time, organizations wanting to start something. What have I asked? In looking for resources, I ask, what have you already done with the resources that you have? And so if you're in organizations, I want to start them. I want to work to serve my neighborhood and work with kids. Kids need something. I said okay, what's the name of the school principal in your neighborhood? And they don't know that then that's a sign to me that they haven't done their homework. They haven't done enough work, they haven't been driven enough to do this even without resources. Because I think if you are driven and called, you're going to figure out a way to do it. It may not be all that you want to do, and it may not be, but it says that you're going to do something with the time and the health that you have.  [00:24:27] Tommy Thomas: What do you wish a younger version of yourself had known and acted upon?  [00:24:33] Lisa Cummins: I think my younger self, it would've been good to know that my voice matters and that difference doesn't mean that one is inferior to the other. And that hard work matters, but it's not the only thing that matters. There's a scripture that talks about you can toil all day, but it'd be off or not. And I think that's important. So hard work matters, but the goal, the purpose, the reason that you're doing things you know that you've got to keep that forefront.  ++++++++++++++++++++++++ In Episode 85, we began a conversation with Jerry White that we will conclude next week. If you didn't hear that episode, Jerry is the President Emeritus of The Navigators International. Prior to that, he enjoyed a distinguished career in the United States Air Force - retiring as a two-star general.  One of the reasons I wanted Jerry to be a guest is because of the depth of his nonprofit board service. Among the boards on which he has served are World Vision, The Navigators, Christian Leadership Alliance, Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, The Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization and the Air Force Association.  [00:26:06] Jerry White: In one board that I'm on, we appoint someone every board meeting to be what we call a responsible skeptic. And that person is designated ahead of time. their job in that board meeting is to be a bit skeptical. Now, I think you have to be a little careful about always having a person who's always skeptical. I don't think I want a board member who every time something comes up, they raise their eyebrow, and you wonder what they're thinking. I think everybody ought to be a little skeptical at some time. And the main thing is if they don't understand something they need to ask.   Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Urban Strategies   Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Lisa Trevino Cummin's LinkedIn Profile  

Primarily an interview with Jerry West, designer of Atlantic Chase as well as the Skies Aboves series and the Enemy Coast Ahead series.As well, news and notes from the world of wargaming.

[00:00:00] Jerry White: The best lesson that I have learned is that I need to accept responsibility for what I do, to admit when I need help and to be absolutely of high integrity and faithfulness in carrying out what I say I will do. The second thing that I would say was that people are my most important asset. +++++++++++++++++ Tommy Thomas: Our guest today is Jerry White, The President Emeritus for The Navigators International. Jerry enjoyed a distinguished career in the United States Air Force, starting out in mission control during the very early days of the American space program. He retired from the Air Force as a two-star general.  I must confess that I was a bit nervous about interviewing Jerry. Aside from his distinguished military career, he's an accomplished writer and is very prominent in Christian ministry circles. I even went so far as to ask Doug Nuenke, a previous podcast guest and close friend of Jerry's to be my co-host for the episode.  But on the day of the recording, Doug had a family emergency and had to bow out. In the end, it turned out to be a wonderful experience for me. Jerry was a great guest, very genuine and transparent. Let's pick up the conversation.  [00:01:24] Tommy Thomas: Before we get too deep into your professional career, take me back a little bit to your upbringing and your childhood. What was that like?  [00:01:31] Jerry White: Let me just summarize that for you. And I'm headed back there within the next day or two because a cousin just died and I'll be performing a memorial service. I grew up in a little town in Iowa by the name of Garden City, 100 people, a farm community north of Ames, just off I-35. My mother had me when she was 17, my father divorced her, abandoned us when I was an infant. So I was raised in that little Norwegian farm community by my mother and my grandfather, and had a wonderful upbringing. I still go back there, and I know all the families and they know us. And then that, of course was a disaster for my mother. What was a disaster for me is at age eight, my mother remarried, and we got in the car with a new stepfather whom I did not really know at all, and headed west for Spokane, Washington, leaving behind everything that I knew and loved and cared for. And I was one upset and anxious kid. And I should say that my stepfather was a wonderful person. I have absolutely zero negative to say about him. He was stuck with us as a new father with a spoiled young eight-year-old. We got to Spokane, Washington, and it was in that context that a group of businessmen in post-World War for our country and the USA veterans were coming back and we had a community center there, and we were in a neighborhood where there was no church. And he and a group of business guys, ordinary men, started a Sunday school. And I started going to that and really started thinking through and being confronted with who Jesus was and the gospel. And so, at about age 11, I made a personal commitment to Christ. And this man, Bob Sheffler, was my mentor for his entire life. He guided me through those early years. My parents did not know the Lord and they later came to faith, and he didn't know that he was discipling, but he was discipling me. And when I went off after high school, by the way, having been very involved in Youth for Christ and my church and many other things, off to study electrical engineering, it was Bob that drove me across the state of Washington to Seattle at the University of Washington, told me where to live, and dropped me off. And it was there that I met The Navigators. My first roommate had been led to Christ by The Navigators and he started to disciple me, teach me how to have a quiet time, scripture, memory, and study the Bible. And so that was my early childhood. And it was traumatic. It was not easy. And but God stepped in and really changed my life, and I made Lordship commitments and ended up at a university in touch with The Navigators.  Though, The Navigators weren't really very big then. [00:04:47] Tommy Thomas: So how did you choose electrical engineering?  [00:04:50] Jerry White: I was pretty good at math and none of my family really had gone to university and so I just fell into it. I said that's one of the more difficult subjects and I'm pretty good in mathematics. So, when I signed up, I signed up for electrical engineering. I didn't know hardly anything about it, to be honest with you. And so that's how I ended up there. And I struggled through, I made it, I didn't know whether I was smart or whether I wasn't, and stayed with electrical engineering and ended up getting a bachelor's degree in it. [00:05:27] Tommy Thomas: I was the same way. I studied EE and it was a hard road for me. It was a hard way to go to college.  [00:05:32] Jerry White: Yeah, it was. We had a whole bunch of navy veterans who were electronic technicians and all the labs I would go into, I didn't know what end was up, and they just did it just like this. They knew everything and I was just struggling to figure out what end was up. And I worked my way through college. I did not have any scholarships of any sort. And so, it was a hard time, but it was also a time of tremendous growth spiritually. And it was there that I met Mary and we were married before our senior year in college, and she went to work for Boeing Aircraft Company, dropped out of school and I doubled up to 21, 22 and 23 hours and just forced my way through that last year of school. And on the day I graduated, I was commissioned in the Air Force and we jumped in the car and headed into the United States Air Force. +++++++++++++++++   [00:06:31] Tommy Thomas: So, when you went into the Air Force, were you thinking it would be a career at that point?  [00:06:36] Jerry White: No, everybody had to serve in the universal draft. I went through the Air Force, ROTC, and went into pilot training. And I was just going to serve. I had no idea, Tommy, whether I'd be a career or not because Boeing Aircraft Company had a job waiting for me. And so, I figured I'd serve whatever time I need to serve and probably end up coming back to Seattle. But it didn't go the way I planned. I flew for a year and was just near the end of pilot training. And though I didn't know it, they needed to get rid of about a third of the pilot training class. And never having failed at any flights or anything, I had one not too good of a ride in formation jet and went up and took the next ride and the instructor landed and he said, Well White, you can fly two ship jet formation. Okay, but I don't think you're gonna be able to fly four ship formation, and within three days I was out of pilot training. Done. No recourse. So, we said, what in the world is going on? I'd never failed at anything.  And so, we prayed and said just told the Air Force, send us anywhere you want. Just give me an engineering job somewhere. And with absolutely no hint from me or any input from anybody that I know, the Air Force sent me to Cape Canaveral in the New American Space Program. Tommy, I didn't even know who it was . And I became a mission controller, got right smack in the middle of all of the new stuff that the Air Force was doing. The man flights, the Mercurys, the Geminis, Atlas, Titan, Polaris, you name it. And every conceivable kind of rocket. And in that I got a new glimpse of the future. [00:08:35] Tommy Thomas: What do you remember about your first management job?  [00:08:39] Jerry White:  The first management job was in the Air Force. I was one of six mission controllers, and we had to manage all the assets on the Atlantic missile range for all of the contractors and projects that were going on at the time. And the first thing I remember is how do you please everybody when you can't give everybody what they want? And so, I would put together each week a plan for the entire missile range, for all the tests, all the launches, all the ground tests, and then walk into a session of 50 contractors at each other's throats and mine for vying for time on the range. And it really taught me how to navigate some hard waters. And it taught me that I needed to know what I was doing. And so it was a good time. It wasn't classically a management job because I wasn't in charge of anybody, but I was in charge of assets and had to work with people over whom I had no authority. And that was probably the best thing for me. [00:09:53] Tommy Thomas:  I was going to say you may not have had the authority, but you had to have the influence.  [00:09:58] Jerry White:  I did have authority in the sense that I could say no to anything when I worked as a mission controller, if I had to make decisions related to the range and the tests and with people who were far outranked me. Because when you're in the spot, you have the authority. [00:10:17] Tommy Thomas: You're the third general officer that I've had the privilege to interview. One of them, Jack Briggs at the Springs Rescue Mission, of course. And I don't know that you'd ever have met Mark McQueen. He was a two-star in the army.  He's a city manager at Panama City now. And he stepped into his job as city manager 10 days before Hurricane Michael hit Panama City. [00:10:36] Jerry White:  Oh my goodness.  [00:10:38] Tommy Thomas: That was a baptism by fire for him. I asked both of these guys the question,  What's the most important lesson you learned in the military that you've carried forward? [00:10:48] Jerry White:   The best lesson that I have learned is that I need to accept responsibility for what I do, to admit when I need help and to be absolutely of high integrity and faithfulness in carrying out what I say I will do. I'd say that was the key thing that I learned. The second thing that I would say was that people are my most important asset. Nothing happens without people. I also learned that even though you're in an authoritarian environment in the military you don't misuse your authority. You don't lord it over anybody, but everybody. The colonels and generals who worked for me, I told them, I said, ladies and gentlemen, we're overhead. We don't fix airplanes. We don't fly them. We don't create them. Our job is totally to clear the way so that the people really doing the work can actually do the work out in the field. I learned that by the school of hard knocks in terms of making a lot of mistakes and watching some pretty good people who were leaders. [00:12:04] Tommy Thomas: I want to ask you a second chances question. I've got some good responses from this. Richard Paul Evans, a novelist, said, “Sometimes the greatest hope in our life is just a second chance to do what we should have done right the first time.” And I'm sure you've had the opportunity in the past to make that kind of decision. What goes into your mind and heart when you're thinking about giving somebody and senior leadership a second chance for something fairly egregious?  [00:12:33] Jerry White:   If you have something fairly egregious it depends on several things. One is moral, the second is legal, and the third is judgment. In other words, they just made a mistake. The moral and the legal. You have to abide by the policies in place and you need to hold people accountable. And I've had that both in The Navigators as well as in the military, but when a person's performance is not up to par, then well, what I ask them, I said, okay, here is my highest value. My highest value is if you tell me you're going to do something, then I expect you to do it. And if you can't do it, I want you to tell me. And if you need help, please ask. But please do not tell me that you're going to do something and then not do it. So, I hold them accountable and then if they, nobody is perfect.  I've had people who didn't do all that I wanted them to do, and I have to discern whether it's an issue of competence, character, or some other thing that they just did not know what to do. But the basic thing is not to wait until they fail. In other words, to walk with your subordinates, if you want to call it that, as they're going through the process. So both of you can catch it if it isn't going the right direction. And in that regard, particularly in The Navigators, which is a volunteer organization, you really want to give people a challenge. But I still remember so many challenges I had that I did not have a clue what to do and had to get lots of help. And I made lots of mistakes and people were very tolerant of me. Didn't make any egregious mistakes, but ones that were enough to know that I wasn't performing as well as I could have.  ++++++++++++++++++++   [00:14:40] Tommy Thomas: Let me go to maybe a deeper side of that, and let's think about dangerous behaviors that you've seen that derail leader's careers. The biggest thing that derails leaders' careers is not understanding themselves and their own gifts and limitations. But the worst is when they have a moral failure. And I don't necessarily mean sexually moral, a moral failure in terms of integrity and judgment. [00:14:47] Jerry White:  The biggest thing that derails leaders' careers is not understanding themselves and their own gifts and limitations. But the worst is when they have a moral failure. And I don't necessarily mean sexually moral, a moral failure in terms of integrity and judgment. The thing I look for in a leader is that they're a learner. That they know what they know. They know what they don't know, and they're always on the grow. That is, they are learning to develop themselves and they don't make excuses. When they don't do quite well, they take the responsibility rather than trying to cover up for themselves.  Anybody who will admit that they did something wrong and said, I need to learn how to do that better, I've got a lot of hope for that person because then they'll grow, they'll continue to engage. People gave me second chances. People took a risk with me on many things. And put their own careers on the line instead of just saying, oh it's too much of a risk. And I've had several things where that's happened. I remember one situation, I was going over into a war zone in a critical area of Croatia, and there were some questions at the Pentagon as to why I was doing this.  And I had a reason. And the latter says, if Jerry says it's important, we'll back him and let me go. Because they trusted me.  [00:16:23] Tommy Thomas: Let's change over to mentors for a minute. You mentioned the guy early in your life that gave you the road to the University of Washington and helps you out there.  Who else has been an influential mentor to you? [00:16:32] Jerry White: There were several people. This was a businessman, Bob Sheffler, who was my early mentor. Then in the Air Force when I failed out of pilot training, there was an instructor pilot by the name of Bill Waldrip. He became very significant in leadership in the Officers Christian Fellowship. And Bill and Doris really were our friends, and he was a mentor who was always there. We worked together through the years, both with The Navs and with Officers Christian Fellowship (OCF) and I would ask him for council when I was going to leave the Air Force and come full-time with The Navigators. Bill is one of the men that I called and asked for counsel. I had a pastor back in Dayton, Ohio, who was a wonderful man, and he really believed in us. Here we were just young. Officers, little kids. And he believed in us and he encouraged us. And then later on Loren Sanny, the former president of the Navigators and Leroy Eims, one of our key early leaders in The Navigators, all were wonderful mentors to me. And whether it was intentional mentoring, I don't know, but what they did is they gave me opportunities and they gave me counsel and they interacted with me. And I would listen to them very carefully as to their teaching and learn from them. Each of these people were very different. I don't know if any of them thought, oh, I'm mentoring Jerry. They were just giving their life to me at a point in time in my life when I needed them.  [00:18:13] Tommy Thomas: Do you think the most mentoring that you've done, has it been intentional, or do you think you just showed up? [00:18:19] Jerry White: Tommy, in these last years has been more intentional because through the Lausanne Movement and through other places people have asked me to mentor them and I make a difference between discipling. Of course, when you're doing like we do in The Navigators, it's one-on-one discipling, not exactly mentoring. That's helping people with spiritual growth, getting the going in their lives. Then we have what I call coaching. And coaching is where somebody really wants you to help. Send in the place, give guidance as they do it. But mentoring for me, working on their agenda and with a few people I'm mentoring right now I say, what do you want to learn? Where can I help you? What kinds of issues do you have? I have one man in Hawaii who calls me every three months and has a list of things he wants to talk about. And I go by his agenda, not by mind. Now, if I've got a young leader and perhaps someone who works for me, I'll be a bit more structured in terms of what I'll ask them to do and to coach them, to give them experiences, guided experiences and opportunities. ++++++++++++++++++   [00:19:37] Tommy Thomas: Thinking back over maybe the Air Force and or The Navigators, what's the most ambitious project you've ever tackled and how did you bring your team along?    [00:19:45] Jerry White: There were a lot of ambitious projects. Probably the most challenging was taking the responsibility for being president of The Navigators from Loren Sanny, who had been in the role for 30 years following Dawson Trotman. And the biggest project that we took on is who are The Navigators? What are we supposed to do and how should we do it? We needed to reassess the entire direction of The Navigators as we were growing by leaps and bounds internationally and in the US, and I still remember with my team trying to come up with things that we needed to do to bring these people together. And two of the attempts were wonderful attempts, but they didn't work. They were good. But they didn't work. And finally, as a team, we decided to bring the core leadership of The Navigators worldwide together in Cypress. And I'd say, okay, we've got a blank sheet of paper. Who are The Navigators? What has God called us to do and how should we do it? And God brought us through that time with an affirmation of what we call the core, our calling core vision, core values and vision. And we just did a review of that a few months ago. After 20 years. I expected it to last for 10 years, and it's lasted 20 now. It was not just me. What I did, I gave permission for the leaders to speak. Their heart. And I had a team that was a phenomenal team to help guide that along the way. That was probably the most ambitious thing I've ever undertaken. [00:21:50] Tommy Thomas: If we learn from our mistakes, why are most others so afraid to make mistakes?  [00:21:55] Jerry White: Usually it's pride and ego that we don't admit when we make mistakes. I think a big issue is that we don't understand our own limitations and who we are. And that's why I think that, as people grow in leadership, they need to assess who they are and what their needs are and what they can grow in. The one thing that keeps people from taking risks is fear. They're afraid they will fail. And if there's an atmosphere within their company, their ministry, their organization of not tolerating mistakes and failure, then you'll walk in fear. And if a leader has to have someone coming up to them every other day and asking, is this okay?  Is this okay? What must I do? That's not going to work. They've got to be willing to take risks and I have to be willing as a leader to take risks on them and to give them the reins and say, go after it. You do this. Do what is best in your own eyes, and if you need some help, let's talk about it. [00:23:12] Tommy Thomas:  What are you most excited about in life right now?  [00:23:16] Jerry White: Oh, I am most excited right now about the whole concept of the theology of work. That God calls us to our jobs, to our work, to be an engineer, to be a crane operator, to be a computer programmer, to be a manager, and to understand that God's great calling is not just to quote what we call ministry, but our ministry is our work. And the reason for that is that is where the lost people of this world are. They are the people that ordinary believers work alongside every day. And I'm very excited about that and I'm doing a lot of work with the Luanne movement and the theology of work and for our next Luanne Congress in September of next year to have upwards of 40% of the 5,000 coming out of the workplace. And besides, Tommy, the future of missions is going to be people going in their professions because we can't get into most countries that we want to go to.  ++++++++++++++++++++   [00:24:34] Tommy Thomas: Let me get you to respond to a couple of quotes before I jump over into board service some, because I want to make sure we have some time there. John Quincy Adams said, “Patience and persistence have a magical effect before which difficulties and obstacles vanish.” Any thoughts from your experience where you've seen patience and persistence work for you?  [00:24:55] Jerry White: They're two very different things. Patience is awaiting not seeing the results right away. The biggest one is persistence. When I look back over my career, I didn't think I was all that smart, but I was persistent, and I worked hard. So even when some of the most boring jobs or some of the most distasteful things, you are persistent and work through it. I have a little series of things when I say, okay, this is a good employee, someone who's competent. That as they know what to do and that they have character, obviously that's a huge one. But beyond that, they're faithful. And I will take faithfulness over the most competent person because I know that person will get the job done. The smartest guy or gal around, if they're not persistent and faithful, they will not get the job done. Everything has a deadline. And now the patience part, I've not given quite as much thought to that. But if there's patience, it's patience with people. And not usurping what they're doing and overriding them. I had to learn that early on that I, even though I could do it better than some other people, certain things I needed to let them do it. Just like your kids riding a tricycle or a bicycle, you have to let them fall. Maybe catch them when they fall, but patience in trusting them.  [00:26:43] Tommy Thomas: Somebody has compared leadership to a boat with two oars, one of the oars is people and relationships, the other is results.  Your thoughts?  [00:26:53] Jerry White: Certainly, the people are a key issue. I have to be a little careful about the results on that one. Certainly, everybody needs to have results. I would probably make the other, or goals and directions. In other words, to know where you're going. Because now do I want results? Yes, I do want results, but in so many cases we can't create the results, particularly in an organization like The Navigators or any of our Christian ministries. You can't make anything happen. The only thing you can do, Tommy, is to make an environment where something can happen and then see God miraculously work through it. But even in the secular world there is limited control over results and you have to let people do their job. And certainly, we need to have clearly defined outcomes that are adjusted quarter by quarter.  +++++++++++++++++++++ [00:28:00] Tommy Thomas: Thanks to Jerry White for a great conversation. Jerry will rejoin us in a few weeks to share leadership lessons on board governance that he has learned over the years.  In Episode 81, Christin McClave was our guest. We discussed her leadership journey from Johnson and Johnson to Cardon Industries and beyond. In addition to Christin's corporate leadership experience, she has a lot of experience serving on both private sector and nonprofit boards. Christen joins us next week to share insights on board governance.  [00:28:42] Christin McClave: The boards that I've been on that have been very well-functioning from a nonprofit standpoint, really do have a nice balance of people who are still in industry. People who are very well versed in audit and finance and can pick out what might not look right on the financials or where things are, could potentially go wrong in the future if they're not managed properly.    Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Jerry White is a very accomplished writer.  Most of his books can be found at NavPress (www.navpress.com).  Others at Thrift Books (thriftbooks.com).  Three are listed below: Honesty, Morality, and Conscience: Making Wise Choices in the Gray Areas of Life – by Jerry White Friends and Friendship: The Secrets of Drawing Closer - by Jerry White Dangers Men Face, 25th Anniversary Edition - by Jerry White   Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Jerry White's LinkedIn Profile  

[00:00:00] Caryn Ryan: At the end of the day, sometimes it's the simplest questions and sticking with the simplest, high-level questions that matters for solving problems and creating transformation. Because I remember one of the first questions I asked the traders was, “Where did the oil go that you thought you were trading?” They didn't know where the oil had gone. And so, we spent a lot of time having to come back to that question and analyzing, digging through years of data and models that would go from trading models that went from the floor to the ceiling. But we always had to come back to that basic question, “Where did the oil go?” ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Our guest this week is Caryn Ryan, the founder and managing member of Missionwell.  Missionwell was formed out of the belief that nonprofit organizations should benefit from the same efficiency and expertise as the for-profit sector, despite the significant resource differences between the two sectors.  Caryn spent 20 years with Amoco Corporation and BP plc, and then later with the merged company BP / Amoco. She was recruited by World Vision International, where she served as their Chief Financial Officer. Caryn was an early champion for virtual and shared services models for the nonprofit sector. Let's pick up on my conversation.  [00:01:20] Tommy Thomas: Before we dive too deep into your professional career, let's go back to your childhood. I'm always curious about how people got their start. What's your happiest memory of your childhood?  [00:01:30] Caryn Ryan: That's an interesting question. I'm not sure I have a single happiest memory, but certainly one of my happiest memories is a trip to downtown Detroit. I lived just north of Detroit growing up, going shopping with my mom and my grandma and my sister and getting a new winter coat, and shopping at Sanders. Have you heard of Sanders?  [00:01:48] Tommy Thomas: No, we didn't have that in the south, I don't think.  [00:01:51] Caryn Ryan:   They're a local chocolatier near Detroit, and sometimes even out here on the west coast, you can find chocolate from them. But we had a hot fudge sunday after we went shopping. So, it's a wonderful memory.  [00:02:03] Tommy Thomas: Thinking back on that, what was the greatest gift you got from your parents?  [00:02:07] Caryn Ryan: My perseverance. My parents themselves came from families that didn't have much and so they had come through a kind of late depression era and they knew the value of a penny and they knew that to get ahead, you had to really persevere. And they passed that on to their kids.  [00:02:26] Tommy Thomas: What are people who don't know you always surprised to learn about? [00:02:30] Caryn Ryan: A lot of people meet me through my company Missionwell.  And they assume that I'm an accountant, and that I like the details, but I don't and I'm not. And over time as time goes on, usually they see that I'm more of an analyzer of leaders and situations and work and, a really pragmatic solution finder, a really persistent person looking for solutions. I'm an entrepreneur, although, who would have thought it?  And I'm a reasonable strategist. And those who are extra observant will probably also be able to tell that my work is my Christian mission in life.  [00:03:07] Tommy Thomas:   When you went to college how did you decide on your major?  [00:03:10] Caryn Ryan: Hey, I'm from Detroit.  It's the Motor City. And growing up in a rather poor family, I wanted security. So, I thought right away I'm going into business in some capacity. I didn't have any idea what aspect of business, so I double majored in economics and psychology for my undergrad and for my MBA. I added finance and information technology and some organization development and organizational behavior. So, it was all general business-oriented, but with a core of finance and HR-ish kinds of things. And that's pretty much been what I've stuck with throughout my entire career. It's always been something to do with business whether that's a non-profit business or a for-profit business, and something to do with that core of finance and HR, but then a whole bunch of things peripherally around that, that those can branch out into a whole lot of things. [00:04:02] Tommy Thomas: Thinking back to the first time you had a staff to report to you, what do you remember about that?  [00:04:08] Caryn Ryan:  That would've been in the Financial Analysis Department of Amoco production, that's part of the old, pre-BP, part of the oil and gas exploration production division. There. And I have to say, I was a mediocre boss at best. I didn't see the role as servant leadership initially. I really saw it as leading a production team to goals. And in addition,  I had a boss at the time who was a great example of how not to treat people. But as my time in that seat progressed I learned that every boss has to protect their people. They have to advocate for them, and they have to develop their staff. And these are the things that allow people to flourish. And to this day maybe just based on how tough that job was, one of my joys is mentoring young people and bringing them along. And going back to that bad boss, as the years have gone by, I've thought about that bad boss from time to time. And I think that people who don't treat other people well, usually have one or two things going on in their life. Tommy one, they either have really low self-esteem and they must assuage that by criticizing and tearing down other people. Or two, they're motivated by greed and power. Understanding that has helped me quickly diagnose, is this a person type A or is it a person type B when they're really behaving badly. And if it's an issue of self-esteem, there's a way you can work with people over time to just bring them up, help them feel better about themselves, and help them transform how they interact in the world.  And I think that's part of our job too. So, he taught me a lot.  [00:05:44] Tommy Thomas: We can learn from sometimes less-than-ideal circumstances that's for sure. In September of 2002, you were living in London, you have a senior-level finance position with BP, probably very well compensated, I would imagine. What happened to cause you to leave the private sector and take that CFO job with World Vision International?  [00:06:04] Caryn Ryan: It was really lovely working in London. I thought you might ask that question. I had my family with me and I bought and remodeled an old home in Hamstead for the family, and we had an amazing life with fun schools for the kids and lots of travel and adventures. But if I step back from that, go back about five years before I'd already started noticing in the late, mid to late 1990s before the merger of Amico and BP that something was missing in my life. And this feeling grew while I was in London. And until around the year 2000, I went to a choir practice at the American Church in London. And I saw a poster and it was for an Alpha class and I was convicted. I needed to go and talk to my pastor about it. And he tried to persuade me not to, and I said, no, I need it. I need it. And I went to this Alpha class. It was 10 weeks long, and these questions about faith just poured out of me. And I was talking about Doubting Thomas in the Bible. That was me. And I told God eventually that if he would speak to me plainly on two big life questions, I'd be his person forever. And he did, for better or for worse, he did. He spoke to me in the Holy Spirit that week of the Alpha class, and very clearly in very plain language, and advised me what I needed to do. And I have been his person ever since. Although I'll never be the type of Christian who believes easily, and definitely I was a late comer to having a really true deep belief. But it's a commitment and it's a promise. And entrances, interestingly, I left Amoco with BP at that time without a job about two years later. But shortly around that time when I took the Alpha class, BP very generously referred me to Nick Isbister, who you know.  And he is a consultant or coach who looks at motivated abilities. And during this time when I was wrestling with various issues including my career, I cannot tell you how much his SIMA profile meant to me. As I was really trying to decide whether to stay or leave BP, where was I going next? And it was really part of God's gift to me. He was part of God's gift to me. And to see my gifts laid out so beautifully and my motivated abilities laid out so clearly really helped me move forward. And it helped me take that step to give my notice to BP and really have the view of, God has a plan and I just want to see what adventures are out there next. And I've used his profile from time to time. I go back and read it and review it and just try to understand this is still me and, what do I need to pay attention to now?  And it's been amazing.  [00:08:37] Tommy Thomas: So did World Vision come looking for you, or did you go looking for them?  [00:08:41] Caryn Ryan:  After I left BP I made a matrix about 57 different things, and over the next few months I whittled away at those to try to figure out what I should do. And when I got it down to the top three, I was like I don't think being a CFO was the problem. I like that. I don't think I was in the right place in a for-profit. I think I need a nonprofit or a Christian organization. And I had one-third criteria also, but around that time that I'd just gotten that narrowed down, I got a call from somebody else who you know, which is Rob Stevens. And he said to me, are you interested in a CFO role with World Vision International? And I paused for a minute, and I said, is that a Christian organization that helps kids overseas? And he said yes. And I started thinking, isn't that amazing? This hits these top criteria that I've just spent months trying to get whittled down to. And I said, yes, I'm interested. And it went from there. So, he shepherded that process. And I did end up working at World Vision for over three years.  [00:09:49] Tommy Thomas: Was that in London?  [00:09:52] Caryn Ryan: No, that was actually World Vision, out here in California.  After I left BP, I moved back to the United States, to Chicago, and then that's when Rob connected with me, and then I ended up moving out here to California.  I love it here. And I'm staying here. I've been here ever since.  [00:10:11] Tommy Thomas: So, years ago, probably, I guess probably about the time, that you were doing that transition. I was doing some work for World Vision in Seattle, and I had the privilege of recruiting a guy named Atu Tandon from Citibank. And about six months after Atul started to work at World Vision he gave me a call.  He is an Indian fellow, so he had that clipped British Indian accent. And he says, Tommy, If we had this many meetings at Citibank, we wouldn't have had a bank. And he just was overwhelmed by the number of meetings at World Vision. My question to you is, what was the biggest surprise you had from leaving something like BP to going to the nonprofit world in World Vision in particular?  [00:10:58] Caryn Ryan: That Atul, he is so efficient. I can see where World Vision's style of just having so many meetings to build consensus would make him go crazy. But for me, when I went there, I mentioned earlier that although I've been a Christian nominally since my baptism as a baby in the Catholic Church. And spent a lot of my entire life going to church in my twenties and thirties.  I actually view my actual timing of becoming a truly committed Christian as the beginning of that Alpha class I talked about. That's when I intentionally said to God, I'm yours. But it was so late, it was in my early forties before Christianity meant more than just going to church on a Sunday and sending my kids to Sunday school programs or singing in the choir or volunteering at all these to do all these financial and HR tasks. So it was shortly after that commitment that I went to World Vision, and I have to say that I expected something different from the industrial sector that I had just spent 20 years working in. And it was a surprise to me that it was an organization of regular people with similar people issues to any for-profit I'd ever worked at. And I just had to go back and think, okay, wait a minute. Okay. The 12 Apostles were, for the most part, just really regular guys. But they were just called to be where they were. It's not that they were people who were outstanding in any way. In fact, they were ordinary people. And at World Vision, it was the same thing. It's just a strong sense of being people being called by God. But they're regular people and they have regular problems, and they're like all people. They're broken. And that was a surprise. I just felt like it was going to be something different, that I'd be working at some higher plane. But it was really a great lesson that people are people with all the usual awards and that Christians or we're all just in need of God's grace. +++++++++++++++++   [00:12:55] Tommy Thomas: Looking back over 20 years in the private sector, what was the greatest experience or lesson you learned there that you were able to take forward? Transformation emerges from tackling problems. [00:13:02] Caryn Ryan: I think it would have to be that transformation emerges from tackling problems. When I was in London, working at BP after the merger of Amoco at BP, my business unit experienced a very tiny little loss. Maybe 100-150 million - in one month. And it was just big enough to get the attention of the CEO of BP you know Sir John or Lord John Brown. And that was while I was serving as the CFO of BP's Global Oil Trading Operations. And I had to take responsibility for that loss. And for all of these financial calls that were actually outside of my direct reports, they were spread all the way across this huge global trading operation where oil and gas were just traded in and out day and night, and I had to dig into that loss. Why did we have that loss? Even with a lot of pushback from these genius traders, who said you wouldn't understand.  I had to find all the weak controls, diagnose some pretty complex issues, and bring in teams of people and experts to help. And we did. We brought in smart staff and great consultants, a new compliance officer, and it just really professionalized our services and made us stronger and really better as a result. So what I took away was that digging in and taking responsibility for that loss and working it through in detail, was really the start of a journey toward transformation. And so you can't look at a problem and think, oh my gosh, I'm doomed. Or, this is just a problem. That problem is probably going to be an opportunity for you. And I've seen this over and over. If you dig into a problem from that problem, if you work at it, you can get transformation and you can end up in a much better place than where you were. And even if people think you're wrong early on, and if you just need to persist through, get the job done, work through the problem, and then later you'll see as I did that it was transformative. And people tend to come around over time, even if it takes a long time, and they'll say, wow, it's really good that you did what you did and wow, we really saw some good things happen as a result of you and your team of people who came in to figure out why things went wrong. And I guess another thing that comes to mind here is that at the end of the day, sometimes it's the simplest questions and sticking with the simplest, high-level questions that matter for solving problems and creating transformation. Because I remember one of the first questions I asked the traders was,  Where did the oil go that you thought you were trading? They didn't know where the oil had gone. And so, we spent a lot of time having to come back to that question over and analyzing, digging through years of data and models that would go from trading models that went from the floor to the ceiling. But we always had to come back to that basic question, where did the oil go? And that really helped guide us through and get to the bottom of it. And by getting that simple question asked, everything changed about how we traded oil over the next few years. So that kind of led me also into thinking that re-engineering is important and that even now at Mission I go back to a lot of my re-engineering experiences and when we have a new church or a new ministry, or a new nonprofit that comes and works with us at Missionwell, we like to re-engineer, rethink, how do they do their work? What are the problems they're facing? Doing that and solving those problems even if we have to push through some barriers with our business partners, really helps us deliver high-quality services. And it gives them more time to focus on the mission and it can become a piece of their transformation. So, this idea of viewing problems as opportunities for transformation, I think is important for me and for our teams at Missionwell, and probably for more people, more than they think.  [00:17:00] Tommy Thomas:  So of all the work you've ever done, what's the most ambitious project you've tackled?  [00:17:07] Caryn Ryan: That project I just mentioned might have been one of them, that was very all-encompassing. But another one that comes to mind is at Amoco, and this was before I moved to London. We implemented SAP and SAP is an integrated end-to-end business and financial system. And it affected everybody on how they worked. Just everybody across the entire organization. At that time, I was working in the chemical sector of Amoco and what I did there is I just found a great leader to come in and take that job. I had an inside track just from the networking I had done, and I just knew somebody who had the skills to do this. And after she came, she helped the chemical sector, and our sector did better than most in terms of implementing this. It was happening across the entire corporation, and our sector did better than most. And when I was then transferred to another downstream sector the one that retails oil and gas and has some refineries, I brought her in there because they had so many problems that they couldn't even, this is for a huge Fortune 15 company. They couldn't close their books. They didn't know how they were doing in terms of trucking oil back and forth to refineries. Everything was not working. Nothing was working. And when she came in, just bringing in the right leader, just calming things down focusing on the right problems. There was so much that needed to get fixed. And she really just had the expertise to do it. So you really just have to bring in the right person. But it wasn't just her, it was the whole team. It was all the leaders. It was pretty much this commitment that we have to get in and solve this problem. Knowing it wasn't going to be easy, knowing that it was going to be messy and complicated, but it was such a high priority. You just, we all knew it was a top priority. And the team, because they understood that it was such an important priority. Everybody was involved, and this was hundreds of people, hundreds and hundreds of people. Everybody got involved and took their piece and parts and just worked on delivering it so we could get the business back up and running and get the books closed and make sure that the downstream operations were functioning with the information that they needed. [00:19:22] Tommy Thomas: With ambition I guess can come risk.  What's the biggest risk you ever took in business?  [00:19:27] Caryn Ryan: I might go more personal on the risk side.  Maybe one of the biggest risks I've taken with starting Missionwell.  While from a business perspective, the risk was not having enough capital or knowledge or understanding. I risked a lot of my own savings and my earnings potential. And I knew that if we failed, I was responsible for my staff losing their jobs and my business partners losing services that can be difficult to get filled. So I think that was a pretty big risk. And my SIMA profile, if you were to read it, says  I'm an overcomer and a maximizer in that I persist through obstacles. And all those things have been true. And I think if you go into a situation where you're taking risks and you understand what risks you're taking then you'll manage them and the rewards that you get are really incredible. It's been all the time at Mission Oil and our growth over the last few years has just been amazing. We recruit better and stronger people. We don't need as much capital now. And we just help so many organizations with great missions. Taking risks - you have to do it.  No pain, no gain.  Risk is the pain of managing it is significant, but the rewards are definitely worth it. ++++++++++++++++++++   [00:20:44] Tommy Thomas:  You mentioned hiring and building a staff. What's the main thing you're looking for in a senior person?  [00:20:50] Caryn Ryan: Right now, essentially our recruiting is guided by our values. I'm looking for a fit in terms of, is this a person who really believes that nonprofits and or religious organizations matter in the world? And if that box is checked, we can proceed. And then we ask, does this person value people? And do they know how to value people and how to motivate people? And then we'll ask relative to our partnering value, is this a person who can relate well to others? Is it a person who can help them? And they need to be able to pass that too. And then relative to principles, we're looking for character, good, really good character in people. So we are looking for people who can talk to us about character and when they've used aspects of the character to make decisions. And then finally we'll look at process and ask, is this a person who really knows how to look at, we're in the business of offering services, so they need to be able to look at work as a process and say, how can we make this better, faster, smoother work better for our business partners? And if they can hit all those and have the technical or functional expertise that we need, then chances are they're going to be a good fit.  [00:22:01] Tommy Thomas: Wow. So, what does the interview process look like for you? Say you spot somebody, and you think this looks good.  What does the interview process look like from start to finish? Is it a day, is it a week?  [00:22:12] Caryn Ryan: The interview process at my company starts out with our HR department. They do a variety of pre-checks, pre-screens, and then depending on the seniority of the person I might do up to three meetings with the person. And those are typically via Zoom because we're oftentimes hiring people to work remotely. Even now moving from our regular professional staff to the leadership level. We're looking to start moving more and more remote with that. So sometimes I don't even meet our staff or our senior people now in person. It's strictly via Zoom. So, we've learned how to form relationships. We've learned how to test and assess. We've learned how to talk to people on Zoom and make the connections that we need to make with them and do the assessments that we need to do. It helps that one of my HR staff is actually remote too, so she really deeply understands remote recruiting. And by the time a candidate comes to me, they've been pretty well vetted by my team. And I will dig in on the leadership qualities sometimes so that the questions that I'll ask are similar even to some of the questions you're asking me. Tell me about a time when you faced a big decision and how did you handle it? So, we're looking for not only the values match, but to some extent what are the leadership competencies that are going to be needed for that particular job. And asking them to come back with behavioral or observational data to us so that we can actually get a feel for how they actually operate day to day. We allow people a lot of time to ask us questions too. We're always constantly trying to stop and pause. It's not a one-way decision. We know that.  We also allow a whole lot of time to answer questions when we bring a person on. That's not the end. We know that a great orientation for the person is important. If they're going to be a fit, they need to be oriented really well. And we need to do a lot of check-ins with them early on to just be sure things are working okay for them. So, we view it a little bit holistically, you have great job descriptions posting appropriately doing the right amount of interviewing with people, and then making sure that they get settled in when they come. ++++++++++++++++++++++   [00:24:27] Tommy Thomas: I want to change gears a minute and say that if you were on a nonprofit version of a Shark Tank show and you had nonprofit organizations presenting their case to you, what are you going to have to know really well before you open up your checkbook? [00:24:46] Caryn Ryan: This is interesting, but really Tommy, I don't think it's any different for a non-profit, than it would be for a for-profit organization. So, you're always asking, do you have a good vision? And a really big and important question is, do you have the resources? And that's in terms of money but it's also in terms of the network of people to support you in making steps towards your vision and making things happen. And then do you have the drive? Do you feel called for this?  How do you demonstrate that? How do you demonstrate that you have the call and that you have the drive? Are you a persister? One thing that will happen for every new organization is just tons of obstacles and problems. They're nonstop. And so, you have to have that ability to persist and to say, look, I see this obstacle. Am I going to go over it, under it, or around it? But for sure I'm going to go around it or get through this. You need to have that kind of a foundational trait characteristic. I think the difference really between a for-profit and non-profit is where you get the money from. The Shark Tank for the for-profit might be from investors or a bank. Whereas the Shark Tank for a nonprofit might be from stakeholders, donors, and grantors. You've got to make sure that the business plan reflects that. But you still have to have the money and you still have to have the people. And the sense of call might be different too. I think if you're working in a for-profit, you may have a vision around some new product or service. In the nonprofit world, your call may be even more deeply embedded. Especially if it's a religious calling. It may be something that's very right-tied or connected to your faith, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how deeply connected it is to your faith. If you don't have the same things that a for-profit needs, your chances of being successful fall. Now, God can always come in and intervene,  but if you're going to do your part in it you need the same things that a for-profit does. Our guest next week will be Jerry White. Jerry's a retired United States Air Force Major General, and a former International President of The Navigators. Earlier in his career, he worked in the startup days of NASA as a professor at the Air Force Academy. [00:27:23] Jerry White: We prayed and told the Air Force, send us anywhere you want. Just give me an engineering job somewhere. And with absolutely no hint from me or any input from anybody that I know, the Air Force sent me to Cape Canaveral in the New American Space Program. Tommy, I didn't even know what it was, and I became a mission controller, got right smack in the middle of all of the new stuff that the Air Force was doing. The manned flights, the Mercurys, the Geminis, Atlas, Titan, Polaris, you name it. And every conceivable kind of rocket. And in that, I got a new glimpse of the future.   Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas 2021 Distinguished Alumni Recipient Caryn Ryan, '79 Missonwell Website   Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Caryn Ryan's LinkedIn Profile  

Ep. 72 — She went from a childhood filled with fears to becoming a fearless stunt performer and wilderness adventurer / Alice Ford, stunt actor and producer/host of “Alice's Adventures.” Alice Ford has had a long and evolving relationship with fear. An all-star gymnast, athlete, track and field runner, and diver, Ford's life path came to a dead-end one day after she gave up her prestigious athletic scholarship from the University of Vermont and moved to the University of Arizona, to escape the cold. But instead, she wound up getting a whole lot of heat from some members of a drug cartel (tied to her then-boyfriend, who was dealing drugs) who ransacked her home one day but left her and her dog unharmed. It took that incident and several other wake-ups call to get her life on track and get back in touch with her athleticism and gymnastics roots to build a successful career in the world of stunt acting and get back in touch with her love of nature. Today, Ford is one of the industry's most up-and-coming female leads, working with directors such as Michael Bey in action-packed movies including “Transformers: Age of Extinction,” and Star Wars, suffering numerous injuries and concussions in the course of her work, which was one factor along with her love of nature, in building a parallel career track as a wildlife adventurer. Ford is producing and starring in a television series, "Alice Ford's: World Heritage Adventures.” And she also stars in her own YouTube channel called "Alice Ford Adventures,” where she hosts travel videos from her many hikes and climbs around the globe, bringing her full circle in her evolving relationship with both fear and nature. Thanks for listening! Subscribe: https://bit.ly/ChitraRagavanChannel

This week on What London Can Be, Diane speaks to Vital Signs Committee members Mary Ann Colihan and Dr. Jerry White about all things Vital Signs, including why it's so important to LCF's work, and why now is the right time for London to focus on investing in the environment.

 In this episode I speak with Georgette Bennett and Jerry White, co-authors of, "Religicide: Confronting the Roots of Anti-Religious Violence." Georgette founded the Tanenbaum Center for Interreligious Understanding to combat religious prejudice, Multifaith Alliance for Syrian Refugees and co-founded Global Covenant Partners. Jerry leads the United Religions Initiative (uri.org) – the world's largest grassroots interfaith network promoting peace and shared the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. Their through lines have been two lifetimes of bringing peace to the world. https://www.amazon.com/Religicide-Confronting-Roots-Anti-Religious-Violence/dp/1637581017/

Find More At https://www.rushtoreason.com/show-notes/11-22-2022/

In this week's episode of What London Can Be, Matthew Sereda, Learning Coordinator for Equity and Inclusive Education at Thames Valley District School Board, Michael Ciccone, CEO and Chief Librarian at London Public Library, Dorothy McKay, Primary Teacher (grades 1/2) at Chippewa Public School, and Ted Gorski, Executive Director at Investing in Children, join us for a Vital Conversation about Racial Equality. Moderated by Dr. Jerry White, Chair of LCF's Vital Signs Task Force.

Today's speaker is Dr. Jerry White, retired pastor and father of Dr. Thomas White. Pastor White encourages us from 2 Timothy 4:7 to fight well in the spiritual warfare we face, and to hold fast to the Word of God.

This week we talk about Ken Rutherford and Jerry White, who are both victims of landmines. We also talk about Mark Littlemoor, a man who fell ill and thought he came down with food poisoning shortly after going out to lunch. His wife got him to the hospital where he would spend the next 90 days fighting for his life. Listen to how they survived now! Drink of the Week: Simply Peach Cocktail   

Ep. 68 — He survived a near-fatal shooting by a hitman hired by his ex-wife to become one of Hollywood's top stuntmen / Garrett Warren, Stunt Actor/Director On May 20, 2000, Hollywood stuntman Garrett Warren was hanging out at his home in Westlake Village, California with his mom when the doorbell rang insistently. When Warren opened the door, he found himself facing the barrel of a gun. What happened next was not a stunt scene with fake bullets. Warren was shot four times, including in his right eye, and left to die on his front porch. The gunman fled the scene but not before he shot at Warren's mother twice, missing narrowly, after she came to the door to see what all the commotion was about. Warren miraculously survived the attack but lost his right eye. His ex-wife, Claudio Haro, former wife of actor Joe Pesci, plead not guilty but was implicated in the attempted murder plot and sentenced to 12 years and four months in prision. Since then, Warren has gone on to become an immensely successful stunt performer, stunt double, fight coordinator, and unit director in major movies including Avatar, Mission Impossible III, the X-Men movies,  Logan, IronMan 2, Agents of SHIELD, and Spider-Man 2, to name just a few. He has taught martial arts and fight choreography to such celebrities as Jessica Alba, Jada Pinkett Smith, John Travolta, and Dwayne Johnson, a.k.a., "The Rock,” and is a personal trainer to many stars. I learned a wealth of information about the world of stunt choreography through my fascinating conversation with Garrett Warren and I know you will too! If you liked this episode, check out these other episodes: Ep. 65. Mexican gangsters faked avocado purchase to launder ransom payment / Patrick Struebi, Fairtrasa Ep. 63. Held hostage by a drug lord reveals the best and worst of humanity / Francisco Cantos Calderón / Former Vice President of Colombia Ep. 61. Heroism, activism, reconciliation with nature / Jerry White, Nobel laureate, landmine survivor Ep. 14. Terrifying robbery and kidnapping reveals what truly matters in life / Stanley Alpert, Attorney

John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him." In this verse we have a clear statement of what it means to love Jesus and the blessing of loving Him. Those who love Jesus have His commandments and watch over them to keep them. At this point in Jesus' message to His disciples, He has given them three commandments. 1. John 13:34. Jesus said, “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” Then in John 14:1, Jesus gave two more commands. So #2, “Don't let your heart be troubled. And #3. Believe in God, believe in Me. John combined the commands of John 14:1 into one single command: Believe in Jesus. In 1 John 3:23-24 he wrote, “This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.” My spiritual mentor, Jerry White, Jr. taught me that to be a disciple of Jesus, we have to know that God loves us and that we love Him. If those two things are settled in our lives, then our hearts won't be troubled in this fallen world—no matter what happens. We know He loves us because He reveals Himself to us. He lets us know that He is with and in us as this verse says by the presence of the Holy Spirit. We know that we love Him because we believe He is the life and that loving with Him is the way we keep His commandments. We don't keep Jesus' commandments by accident or happenstance. We keep them, guard them intentionally. If you love Jesus, then be intentional about believing and trusting Jesus to be your life. Expect Him to love whoever He puts in your path today? Acknowledgment: Music from “Carried by the Father” by Eric Terlizzi. www.ericterlizzi.com

Ep. 65 — An epiphany in Peru results in a kidnapping in Mexico that galvanizes the evolution of a fair trade social entrepreneur / Patrick Struebi, Founder & Executive Chairman, Fairtrasa Patrick Struebi was eager to fly home to Switzerland on one of his periodic visits after spending eight years in Mexico establishing Fairtrasa, one of the world's largest fair trade organizations for avocados and other fruits from Latin America. It was the morning of January 28, 2011. Struebi's then-girlfriend had come to pick him up at his home, to drive him to the bus station, from where he planned to go Mexico City to take the plane back home. As he put the bags in the trunk, two cars suddenly blocked the driveway and two masked men with guns threw him into one of the cars and whisked him away in a highly orchestrated kidnapping for ransom plot. Thrown on the floor of a cold cellar, masked and handcuffed, and in the clutches of ruthless Mexican gangsters who made him watch videos of violent killings, Struebi somehow kept his cool and tried to figure a way out. He was released after five days of coordinated activity between the Mexican and Swiss governments. The kidnapping gave Struebi a lens into the economic conditions of his hostage takers and renewed his commitment to building Fairtasa as a means to lift Latin American farmers out of poverty. For International Fruit Day this July 1st, I'm honored to welcome a pioneer in the field of fair trade, Patrick Struebi, serial social entrepreneur, thought leader, humanitarian, and founder and Executive Chairman of the Fairtrasa Group. Struebi has never publicly shared the story of his kidnapping publicly. He's doing it here for the first time so I'm grateful for his trust. If you liked this episode, check out these other episodes: 63. Held hostage by a drug lord reveals the best and worst of humanity / Francisco Cantos Calderón / Former Vice President of Colombia 61. Heroism, activism, reconciliation with nature / Jerry White, Nobel laureate, landmine survivor 14. Terrifying robbery and kidnapping reveals executive leadership lessons

Ep. No. 64 — Disobeying his boss turned a humanitarian crisis into a calling / Sasha Chanoff, CEO and Founder, RefugePoint and Co-Author, “From Crisis to Calling: Finding Your Moral Center in the Toughest Decisions”. In 2000, refugee expert and humanitarian aid worker Sasha Chanoff was in the Congo on a mission to evacuate a very specific set of Tutsi refugees, who were on a UN resettlement list. But as he was about to leave with those refugees, Chanoff was invited into a tent. And what he saw in that tent would shake the foundation of his life, soul, and career. That “crucible moment” as Chanoff calls his experience in that tent prompted him to launch RefugePoint, whose mission is to address the critical and unmet needs of those who fall through the cracks of humanitarian assistance and have no other options for survival. RefugePoint has a special focus on women, children, and urban refugees. Chanoff is the co-author of the leadership book, “From Crisis to Calling: Finding Your Moral Center in the Toughest Decisions,” which he co-authored with his dad, noted non-fiction writer, David Chanoff. He has won many awards and accolades for his extraordinary contributions to addressing the global refugee crisis. In this moving episode, Chanoff examines the impact of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the global refugee and humanitarian crisis that it is exacerbating. And he dives deep into his and RefugePoints efforts to address the huge gaps in the systems put in place globally to help the 100 million people that have been forced to leave their homes, belongings, and families behind, sacrificing everything they know and love, as is happening in Ukraine today. As we commemorate World Refugee Day today and recognize the grim realities of the forced migration crisis happening all around the world, I'm honored to welcome a pioneer in the field, Sasha Chanoff, CEO and Founder of RefugePoint. If you liked this episode, check out these other episodes: 26. Technology is rewiring Ukraine's narrative / Alex Deane & Bryan Cunningham 63. Held hostage by a drug lord reveals the best and worst of humanity / Francisco Cantos Calderón / Former Vice President of Colombia 61. Heroism, activism, reconciliation with nature / Jerry White, Nobel laureate, landmine survivor 22. How is Polaris fighting human trafficking? / Anjana Rajan, CTO, Polaris 43. Ignoring advice to avoid philosophy pays off in big ways / Courtney Bowman, Palantir 21. Disenchanted doctor finds secret inspiration in heroin addict / Dr. Andrew Lees, Neurologist

Ep. No. 63 — Kidnapped and held hostage by drug kingpin Pablo Escobar revealed the best and worst of humanity / Francisco Santos Calderón, former Vice President of Colombia and former Colombian Ambassador to the United States. For months, Pablo Escobar, notorious head of the Medellín drug cartel and journalist Francisco Santos Calderon — one of his fiercest critics in the press, had been playing a dangerous cat and mouse game. Escobar was intent on kidnapping Santos — then the Editor-in-Chief of El Tiempo, Colombia's largest and most influential publication — and other journalists, as a bargaining chip to prevent extradition to the United States to stand trial for his murderous greed. Santos, tipped off to Escobar's intentions, had been changing his travel routes and work routines constantly to evade the cartel kingpin's henchmen. But on September 19, 1990, Santos was riding home from work in his bulletproof vehicle when the unthinkable happened. His car was surrounded by gunmen who killed his driver and kidnapped Santos who was one of 10 journalists and elites held hostage by Escobar that year. He was chained to a bed and held for eight months before being released. Santos was just 30 years old when Escobar snatched him off the streets. He was lucky to be alive. Between 1980 and 2000, nearly 180 journalists were killed for speaking up against the drug cartels. Santos would launch a highly successful campaign to reduce the epidemic of kidnappings in Colombia. He left the country for two years to avoid getting assassinated by the Marxist-Leninist guerilla group, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), after getting tipped off by the CIA about FARC's intentions. He worked at El País the most prominent newspaper in Spain. Santos eventually was elected to serve two terms as Colombia's Vice President under President Álvaro Uribe. He subsequently also served as the Colombian Ambassador to the United States under President Donald J. Trump from 2018 - 2020. Santos is now wearing his journalist hat again. He's highlighting the precarious political situation in Venezuela, and speaking out about Russia, China, and Iran, which he views as the unholy trifecta threatening the stability of geopolitics today. In 1996, he and his nine kidnapped compatriots became the characters in “News of a Kidnapping,” the English-language non-fiction book by famed Colombian novelist and Nobel Prize for Literature winner, Gabriel García Márquez. The book was originally published in Spanish the year before as “Noticia de un Secuestro.'' Santos declined to co-author “News of a Kidnapping” with Márquez, which he now says was “a very stupid decision on his part” but he later relented and spoke with Márquez over several days for the book. Apart from Márquez and the journalists Santos spoke with after his release, in the nearly-32 years since his kidnapping, he has not shared his story at all in detail. Don't miss this riveting episode of “When It Mattered.” Thanks for Listening. If you liked this episode, please check out these other episodes: Ep. 61 - Heroism, activism, reconciliation with nature / Jerry White, Nobel laureate, landmine survivor  Ep. 14 - Terrifying robbery and kidnapping reveals what truly matters in life / Stanley Alpert, Attorney Ep. 20 - Brought back to life, undertook new mission / Frank Shankwitz, Make-A-Wish Foundation

In this episode I talk to Jeremy White (whom I call Jerry nonstop throughout the episode). Jerry has designed some incredibly innovative games like Atlantic Chase, Skies Above the Reich, Enemy Coast Ahead and more. Right now, he has two projects being published by GMT: Skies Above Britain (co-designed with Gina Willis) and Infernal Machine (co-designed with Ed Ostermeyer).We discuss the role of geography in games, the virtues of collaborative design and the delicate nature of playing bad guys in historical games.

Jerry and I discuss the fantastic movie Everything Everywhere All at Once. We also talk about Pickleball, the amazing AppleTV+ show Severance, LOST, the Vidlings and Tapeheads Film Festival, and, of course, The Matrix. I hope you enjoy this movie as much as we enjoyed talking about it.    Find Jerry here: jerrywhitejr.com Find his film festival here: vidlingsandtapeheads.com Submit to the festival here: filmfreeway.com/vidlingsandtapeheads/   Connect with us:   FB & Twitter - @mediarevuepod Instagram - @richardst30 Email - mediarevuepod@gmail.com Voicemail - (407)603-5847   Time Stamps   00:10:26 - Severance 00:26:14 - Everything Everywhere All at Once (No Spoilers) 00:43:34 - Everything Everywhere All at Once (Spoilers)

Ep. 61 — He became a celebrated anti-landmine crusader after a horrific landmine accident but then began questioning his superhero narrative / Jerry White, Nobel Peace Laureate / Author / Professor of Practice, University of Virginia. In 1984, Jerry White went to Israel for his junior year, “study abroad” program at Hebrew University. On their spring break that April, White, and his two American roommates went out hiking in the Golan Heights in northern Israel, tracing the footsteps of Biblical prophets. They got off the beaten path to set up camp. One morning, White walked ahead of his friends and stepped on a landmine. He was just 20 years old. The tragedy of losing his right leg to a landmine transformed White into a student of resilience and survivorship and an advocate for landmine victims. He became a charismatic activist, who worked closely with Princess Diana, Queen Noor, Paul McCartney, and others to fight for a global ban on anti-personnel mines. White's high-impact campaigns in the wake of his landmine injury which cost him his right leg resulted in three major treaties, The Landmine Ban Treaty, the U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and the Cluster Munitions Ban.. In 1997, he shared the Nobel Peace Prize awarded to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. White also served as U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State under President Barack Obama and Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, looking at data-driven outcomes in conflict negotiations. And he became a Senior Ashoka Fellow. But over time, White began to question his landmine survivor hero-narrative and dreamed of retiring his “landmine cape” as he likes to call it. His soul-searching on how that accident changed his relationship with nature and why that landmine came to be on that Israeli hill in the first place, has resulted in a prolific body of thinking, speaking, and writing. White has a new book out this November, called Religicide: Confronting the Roots of Anti-Religious Violence. The book is now available for pre-order on Amazon. White also wrote a 2004 book on resilience, titled, “I Will Not Be Broken.” Today, White is an award-winning teacher, activist, and leader. He currently serves as a Professor of Practice in Religion and Political Science at the University of Virginia and teaches the popular course: Religion, Violence, and Strategy: How to Stop Killing in the Name of God. My conversation with Jerry White about what happens when you dare to question your own narrative and when you lose touch with the earth was a profound experience and I am so glad to share it with you today.

Mid-segment special guest: Dr. Jerry White #1 of a 4-part series. Romans 12:2 says, “Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.” When you put that in the perspective of retirement, it means a whole lot of rejecting what the world is dishing out. In today's show Bruce Bruinsma, the founder of the Retirement Reformation, and Jim Brangenberg start a 4-part series talking about the recently released book iRetire4Him: Unlock God's Purpose for Your Retirement. This book challenges the everyday retired believer to recognize the value they bring to the world and the upcoming generations. Tune in to change the way you think about living out your faith in Retirement. This discussion is based on chapters 2 & 3 in the book iRetire4Him, which can be found online at iWork4Him.com/iretire4him-book. www.RetirementReformation.org

Do you see yourself continuing to flourish as a leader in Christian service to age 84 or beyond? Well, today my conversation is with just such a leader. I hope this episode will challenge you to think about how you steward the gifts and experience God has blessed you with long-term. What are the habits and practices that you need as a leader to be effective in the long run? One of the keys is self-leadership – taking responsibility for your ongoing growth. As years of leadership stretch into decades of leadership, how can you stay effective and focused? We will address these issues today in our conversation.  I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Jerry White. He is the International President Emeritus of The Navigators.   Find full show notes here: https://bit.ly/jerrywhitenavigators Share the love. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate it on Apple Podcasts and write a brief review. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-flourishing-culture-podcast/id1060724960?mt=2  By doing so, you will help spread our podcast to more listeners, and thereby help more Christian workplaces learn to build flourishing cultures. Follow our Host, Al Lopus, on Twitter https://twitter.com/allopus Follow our Host, Al Lopus, on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/allopus/ Email our host at info@bcwinstitute.org 

Frank Schaeffer In Conversation with activist and entrepreneur, Jerry White, exploring his Nobel Prize-winning work for the Campaign to Ban Landmines, and his forthcoming book, Religicide: Confronting the Roots of Anti-Religious Violence.Jerry White is an activist entrepreneur known for leading high-impact campaigns, three of which led to international treaties: the Mine Ban Treaty; the U.N. Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities; and the Cluster Munitions Ban. White shares in the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize awarded to the International Campaign to Ban Landmines. As co-founder of Landmine Survivors Network, he worked with Diana, Princess of Wales, to help thousands of war victims find peer support and job training. He wrote about how to move from victimhood to survivorship in Getting Up When Life Knocks You Down. White served as U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, launching the Bureau of Conflict and Stabilization Operations and introducing advanced decision analytics to predict with high accuracy the outcomes of complex negotiations. He studied religion at Brown and theology at Cambridge University, with honorary degrees from the Mount Sinai School of Medicine, University of Massachusetts Boston, and Glasgow Caledonia University. White is currently a Professor of Practice at the University of Virginia, and co-author of a forthcoming book Religicide: Confronting the Roots of Anti-Religious Violence_____Religicide: Confronting the Roots of Anti-Religious ViolenceGetting Up When Life Knocks You Down: Five Steps to Overcoming a Life Crisis_____In Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer is a production of the George Bailey Morality in Public Life Fellowship. It is hosted by Frank Schaeffer, author of Fall In Love, Have Children, Stay Put, Save the Planet, Be Happy.Learn more at https://www.lovechildrenplanet.comFollow Frank on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube.https://www.facebook.com/frank.schaeffer.16https://twitter.com/Frank_Schaefferhttps://www.youtube.com/c/FrankSchaefferYouTubeIn Conversation… with Frank Schaeffer PodcastApple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-conversation-with-frank-schaeffer/id1570357787Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1FVF48mNwzNaLd1tJ4zH6y?si=aeVQ54ieTA-hlSuMNB5APA&dl_branch=1_____Support the show

Originally recorded during the 10/2 Episode of How Did We Miss That?, found here: https://youtu.be/Y2345v0N-x8 https://www.facebook.com/indleftnews/videos/379836480307211

Bill talks to retired USAF Major General Jerry White about how work and ministry go together and the engineering behind sending men to space. Then we delve into the book of Jonah and the heart of Christianity with Pastor Timothy Keller.

Prayer Conference 2019

What are the secrets of leaders who continue to have significant influence over long periods of time, where age doesn't seem to slow them down or see their influence diminish? Today, we're talking to just such a leader: Jerry White, president emeritus of The Navigators. He doesn't disappoint in offering sage advice for Christian leaders at any stage. With his Ph.D. in astronautics, Jerry served as an Air Force mission controller at  Cape Canaveral, working on the beginnings of America's space program. He is the co-author of the current textbook on astrodynamics at the Air Force Academy, and he retired from the Air Force Reserves as a Major General. In 1986, he was elected as the third president of The Navigators and served as International President until 2005, nearly 19 years. He is also the co-author of a dozen Christian books with his wife and ministry partner, Mary. Find the full show notes at http://blog.bcwinstitute.org/encore-jerry-white-navigators. 

Click to Subscribe to All Ben's Fitness & Get A Free Surprise Gift from Ben. In this September 19, 2008 podcast: -Listener Q&A: differences between artificial sweetener brands, and the effect on appetite cravings and weight loss. Effect of Vitamin B12 (methycobalamin) mega-dosing on aging, energy and performance (see DeltaE ingredient label on left). -Special Announcement: September 24 Nutrition Clinic in Spokane, WA. -PODCAST SPECIAL! Video interview on magnetic fitness with Jerry White (download full movie here) -Websites mentioned in this podcast: Delta-E Vitamin B Megadose Magstep Magnetic Insoles Biaxial Power Mag