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Without a deep understanding of who you are selling to, your chances of writing successful copy that converts is going to be a damn sight harder.   In this episode of Cracking Copy, Ella Hoyos delves into the essential world of customer research with special guest Dr. Mimi Zhou.    Mimi, a conversion copywriter and email strategist, highlights the pivotal role of research in crafting compelling copy. The episode reveals how Mimi acquires accurate customer data without unintentionally introducing bias into the process.   You'll learn her methods for gathering valuable insights, including mining reviews, conducting surveys, and performing interviews. And discover Mimi's techniques for making interviewees comfortable and the strategies she employs to ensure the reliability and accuracy of her data.   Copyhackers supremo, Jo Wiebe describes her as “One of those quiet, unexpected copywriting talents very interested in the planning and strategy side of email which is rare to find. [She's] really curious about how to write emails that convert better and better all the time”.   The conversation also explores how to translate research findings into effective copy, using frameworks like the “jobs-to-be-done” timeline and the forces at “the switch”. Mimi shares practical examples and tips for copywriters new to conducting research, emphasising the importance of defining research goals and starting with review mining.   Whether you're a seasoned copywriter or just starting out, this episode is packed with actionable advice and insights to help you harness the power of customer research in your copywriting projects. 00:00 - Cracking Copy is a marketing and copywriting podcast where we discuss effective copy 01:02 - Research is a crucial skill for any copywriter 02:32 - Mimi is a conversion copywriter for coaches and service providers 04:29 - Why is customer research so important in the context of copywriting and marketing 07:27 - The different types of research that effective copywriters do 09:17 - Does email list size impact the kind of research you do? 10:58 - What systems work best for capturing responses and data for research projects? 13:21 - Techniques for making interviewees feel comfortable and open up 17:38 - The reason you shouldn't get too friendly during interviews 21:16 - How to glean insights from research interviews 24:42 - Ensuring that research insights are reliable and representative of target audience 26:11 - How do you translate insights into compelling copy? 33:08 - What advice would you give to copywriters new to conducting market research   Resources mentioned in this episode:  Airstory https://www.airstory.co/ Capture research and use it in your writing - no matter where you write online. Put an end to copying and pasting interesting quotes, data points, images and more you find online.   About Mimi Dr. Mimi Zhou revels in customer research--because when you understand what your audience wants, you don't need to guess what they'll pay you for. Her conversion copywriting projects are built on a thorough research foundation where she studies info your audience provides through reviews, surveys, interviews, and more. Her ability to parse data into numerical information and read between the lines to hear what customers say beneath the surface helps her understand what customers want even when they don't tell you directly. A fun fact about Mimi: Her path to becoming a professional researcher began at UC Berkeley and culminated in her PhD at New York University. Later, her belief that knowledge is power led her to seek copywriting training from the original conversion copywriter herself, Joanna Wiebe (founder, Copyhackers).  So Mimi literally got a professional research degree and then studied copywriting with the best person in the business. Website: mimizhou.com instagram.com/mimithezhou/ linkedin.com/in/mimizhou/ For monthly emails that break down how customer research gets translated into conversion copy, listeners can subscribe to my newsletter, Smarter Customer Research: mimizhou.com/newsletter Contact us Please drop us a voice note at memo.fm/crackingcopy and let us know what you think or what topics you want us to cover. Twitter @cracking_copy Facebook @crackingcopy    ➡️  Share this podcast with someone who'll find it useful     You can also find us at: Instagram: Ella Hoyos - @flurrymarketing Minnie McBride - @minnie__writes   LinkedIn: Ella Hoyos - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellahoyos Minnie McBride - https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniemcbride Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride are co-hosts of this podcast.  We are professional copywriters and marketers.  We deep dive into a different aspect of copywriting in each ‘snack-sized' episode so that we can help you become better writers for your business.   Support this podcast! If you found this episode helpful you can show your appreciation by making a donation!  This helps offset the costs of producing the show and we'll love you for it :)  Buy me a coffee  

Damien Leroy and Gwen Le Tutour have been on a roll, posting two great instructional videos per week and helping lots of people getting started in the sport.  They are humble but are clearly exceptional humans and motivated by a desire to help people. Interview transcript: Hello friends. It's Robert Stehlik. Welcome to another episode of the blue planet show. in today's show. I'm interviewing Damien Leroy and Gwen Le Tutour.  We talked about their background, how they got into watersports, wing foil technique and equipment, what inspires them, and how they love to share their stoke with others, watch it here on YouTube. Or you can listen to it as an audio only podcast, just search for "Blue Planet Show" in your favorite podcast app. Today is June 19th, 2021. And this month you've been posting two videos. Every day. One video is part of our video contest and one of our blue planet videos. So I hope you can join us for the daily videos contest and our blue planet daily videos. We're going to decide the contest winner on August 14th with a $2,000 price. So to enter, please check out the link below. And send it to your submission. Today's guest Damien, and when are amazing human beings, they're very humble, but I'm stoked to have him on the show. If you've winged foiled at all. You've probably seen some of their great, amazing instructional videos. They do a great service for the sport. And so without further ado, here are Damien and Gwen, Damien and Gwen, welcome to the Blue Planet Show. Thanks so much for joining me. Let's get started a little bit with your background. Maybe Damien, tell us a little bit about, how, where you grew up and how you got into water sports and all that. One, thanks so much for having us and we appreciated and how I got into water sports. Technically I've been in water sports since I was like two, but I grew up a ski racer in Colorado, which was on snow a little bit different, but truthfully. Really get involved with the water. Much until my like teens. I was training in Mount hood, Oregon, and I would go to the Gorge. I'm sorry, I'd go to the coast and boogie board. And I thought surfing was way too hard. And boogie board was like the coolest thing ever. And yeah, it just more from there. I saw kite surfing. I was a big ski racer. And kite surfing was the unknown and yeah, I that's kinda what got me into it was ski racing, seeing it in hood river training at the gore training in Mount hood and visiting the Gorge. And I had some injuries, he racing and went to Florida, Naples, Florida. And my best friend in Naples was flying one of these kites. And I didn't know him at the time and I walked up and he just handed it over and he's oh, you gotta try this. I was just like, whoa, what is this? And for that's where it started truthfully. I'd say how long ago was that when you got into college? Ah, man, that's I was 18, so for like close to 21 years ago. Yeah, it was at the beginning. Things were super, truthfully, even in the Gorge, people wouldn't talk about it. It was all wind surfing and you'd see one or two guys, which for sure was probably like Corey Rosler and maybe Lou like visiting or something, but nobody was doing it. Nobody would do lessons, nobody would talk about it. And and my buddy in Naples happened to buy a kite and just learn on his own and it was awesome. And then I got connected with Cabrina right in the beginning and was just been super blessed ever since. And I've been riding with that company for a long time and just incredible family, credible group of people and just super grateful because I was able to become moral champion and do all sorts of things in the sport. But more than that, I was able to give back and. Share the knowledge that I've learned throughout my incredible adventures. I'm now back with people, which is the most rewarding thing you can do. And I read that at one point you were kiteboarding world champion. Yeah. I just did everything. I tried everything so racing and speed and freestyle, big air and way everything. You just do it all when you're just into it. And I won a solemn, a world championship which was racing around some buoys in Spain and yeah, for me, I just always wanted to challenge myself. That was it. So as long as I could keep challenging myself, I would stay excited about the sport. So it didn't matter what I was doing. I was always excited about it versus I see a lot of people get really hooked on freestyle and then they just burn out and, ends quick. So for me, I was lucky to get into foils and just always keep trying something different. Cool. So where did you grow up in Colorado? I was born here and Vail, Colorado. And then I moved when I was 10. We had a fly fishing business in Alaska, so it halfway in the summer I would work with my family and Alaska fly fishing, which was a business we own. And then half the summer I would train in Mount hood. And then I just, we moved everywhere, Idaho, Montana. You name it all over the world, so we're very, it was exciting time and I'm very grateful and it was a neat childhood and hopefully I can share it with my new little baby girl. Awesome. So you have, you're married and have a daughter or? Yeah, I just had a little two month old little nugget and she is just. I don't know, everybody tells you and I'll say it to everybody out there, you don't know until you have a child, but, I was so driven in all these directions, do all this stuff. And when you have this like thing that you created and for sure there's, lack of sleep, but it's the most beautiful thing you could ever do. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Thanks for sharing that. What about you, Glen? Can you tell us a little bit about your background? Yeah I grew up in France and in Brittany next to the ocean. So I grew up surfing and wind surfing my browser got me into it. And then when I graduated from college and I was about to travel for work that's when I started kite surfing, because wind surfing was just like, I don't know, but at the time if you were a windsurfer, there was I dunno, you had your community and you maybe didn't really want to transition kiteboarding. But for me, I had always been very interested in what it took was just like traveling and be like, okay, I need to like, be able to, like travel whiskey and make it a lot more convenient. So that's when I started. Guide thing. And I was working as a Marine engineer, so on ships traveling around the world and I've always been really passionate about the ocean. And so I really wanted in everything I do, I want to use my skills in a way that easier help people or help the planet. And so as a Marine engineer, I joined a nonprofit called . It's a conservation ocean conservation, nonprofit, and that's when I left France and went to Australia to work on the ships and I met a girl, I didn't speak English at the time. I'm in a girl, an American girl, she's now my wife. And that's how I ended up in the U S so I never imagined I would come to the us. I remember growing up. Like looking at magazines and how why and all of that. And I was like, just dreaming and and then, like seeing my life now it's like unreal, but everything started all there was a huge shift when I met Damian. So last year I was living in Idaho and because my wife is from there and I came to Florida to buy a van. And I had been following Damien for awhile on, on Instagram. And I reached out to him. I was into videography, either video, refu business in Idaho. And I was like, Hey do you want to make a video? I'm going to be here for two days. But I was thinking like this guy is we're a champion. Like he's not going to reply to like me. A video of refer from Idaho, but your dad, he replied, he was like super nice. And he was like, yeah, like for sure let's do it. So we made a video and I edited it and then Damon loved it. And I was like, okay, I sing there is more to do. So we were really aligned in, in our values in and you, our mission which to me is always using my skills in whatever I do to, to help and to make it like meaningful. So we really connected. And then that's when we started to work on some videos together to really help people, especially, it was the perfect timing when winning was like picking up. So we were like, let's create something to help people whinging and living their best life. Like we do. This was back like, so when did you guys meet? That was about a year ago. You said that was last year in September and that's when we met, but then I went back to Idaho and and then came back in three, nine in December. Okay. And so before that, you also did a video videography for like wind surfing, kite surfing, things like that. Yeah, I would say not I was always just most of my business was just videography and I was taking, anything. Being based in Idaho, I was a lot of, it was not involving what your spot, but when I would travel to Maui I connected with people. I would always try to that was my passion, but when I met Damian, he just took it to the next level. Yeah, I think I saw somewhere too, that you were into ultra running and things like that, like during sports, is that right? Yeah. Yeah. I did a lot of things in my life firefighting. I was in the military and I did love stuff. And then running, I took running because I was based like for a while I was like away from the ocean and I needed something to do. And running was like the most conveniencing because you can do it anywhere. So I picked up running and not being like so passionate about running, but I was like, how can I challenge my. Was running that's pretty much, what I can do right now. And so I did a lot of or like I did a few, like a hundred mile races, which is very challenging, but it's a great experience where you find yourself in a hundred mile race. For sure. Robert, I have to try him in Glen, ran a hundred miles in firefighting outfit. I'm just letting you know, on a hundred miles in for firefighting. That's hard core. So when you met Damian at you, you had already had a YouTube channel and you've been actively making videos for a while, right? Or was that kind of a new thing? Yeah, no, I had been oh you talked to. Oh, it was just, both of you, but yeah, it was funny cause yeah, to build that kind of a YouTube following and stuff like that, it takes usually takes more than a year. Just wondering before, before you guys met what were you doing? And yeah, for me, I, my whole career was obviously competing in the beginning and as a competitor, any young athlete out there, there's always somebody good coming along, so you gotta keep your options open. And for me, I got into sales right away and became a sales rep for some brands. And so I was still competing and working. So I had a full-time job, but I also was still competing and it was a perfect match because it makes you work hard at what you do. And also you get the reward of playing and doing the best you can do competitive. And YouTube. Yes I had a YouTube channel forever. I had all the social media is you have when you're an athlete, never anything big on YouTube. I just did it to do it. I loved making videos. It was like a passion of mine, but I wasn't never had enough time and was working probably most of the time. And so I enjoyed capturing unique angles or unique things or building new mounts or capturing something different. That's where my passion was. And I was lucky to ride for companies like GoPro and connect and do really cool things. But my YouTube thing was never a thing. And When I ran into Gwen, he said it best, and that was our personalities. Like we're in sync. We just were out to help people in my whole entire life has been that and to be able to share and give people their best life and motivate people and get them out and get them up off the couch. And even if it's the simplest thing, it may not be wing surfing or whatever it may be, but just to motivate people to get out. I think a lot of people think athletes or, wealthy people or whatever it may be. Don't struggle, everybody struggles. And it's a matter of just surrounding yourself with good people and taking the step to get over that problem, whatever it may be drinking or depression or who knows. And so that, that's what stems this and Gwen is, just the perfect fit of somebody who's same motivation. W we can go to the beach and bang out 10 videos and just have so much information because we're so passionate about it because we know it helps people. And that's really it. If it helps one person it's good enough for us, and for sure, we'd love to help as many people as we can. And it's a privilege to be able to work for somebody like Gwen. Who's so passionate. And truthfully, I'd say in four months, we. In four months, we created a YouTube channel for sure. It was, I think my YouTube channel was many years old, but just never did anything with it. And now our goal is to help people and inspire. Yeah, it's awesome. I really like you're all thinking about sharing the love and happiness and stuff like that, it's a pretty big goal, but I think, obviously with that kind of passion and enthusiasm you guys have for it it's great to see that. And and yeah, I really good quality tutorials too, that you guys put together a nice cinematography and all that stuff. And I've been doing that too for a long time and some help, but obviously you guys are doing kind kinda on a whole nother level. I think like just, really good quality and it's not easy to do, and it's not like you make a ton of money. Posting free videos on YouTube. Sometimes people think that YouTube is get paid millions of dollars. Like some of the guys do, but not at the level we're at right. It's probably just enough to buy all the gear that you need to buy. think we're probably still in the hole for sure. But this is a passion project for both of us, for sure. And in Gwen's truly the just incredible, he sees the, he sees it all and puts it together and I'm just OCD and I just can't stop talking. So that's about it. I think what was special when I met Damien I was only like we, we had together for just one weekend when we first met and what kind of what I found like special was like, the man was like, so like connected with everybody at the beach. And I think that. That's that's when I saw like the potential of of just like being able to help people on, on, on any level, because sometime, if you are like like Damien, like world-class rider world champion, you might be a bit disconnected from the people at the beach, but Damien is so like you go to the beach and the man is always going to be helping anybody. I think the first weekend, like there was a guy that he was getting into. And had maybe some issue with his foil and Damien went to him and help him getting his full set up. And I'm like, this guy is we're on champion and a rock staff, and he's going to help a guy that, it's, I think to me that was like very special. And I was like, okay, if we are going to be able to do something like very special and help people and it's going to be meaningful, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. You guys doing a great job, so actually let's talk a little bit about kinda getting into wing foiling and common issues. People that people have and like tips for beginners, basically, people that want to get into it. They're not really sure what to do. And what do you tell people that are just starting. I would just say, for anybody out there look, everything you, you do in life. That's new, you're unsure. So like you've got to take a chance and all I'd say is most people that take a chance with this, they actually really enjoy it. And I would say, just get yourself a wing and you can play with it on the beach. You can play with it anywhere. There's wind on land, board, skateboards, snow water, sup you don't need to buy all this stuff right away. Just get yourself a wing and start playing with it. And to me, your kids can play with it. You can jump off stuff obviously within reason. But yeah, that's kinda, my, my tip is just give it a shot. It's I think you'll be shocked with what can, what doors it can open. That's my first piece of advice. Yeah. So we're just watching this video here on YouTube. Obviously it's good to just watch a lot of your instructional videos before trying it. But I think a lot of times, yeah, the, one of the mistakes that people make is this going in the water right away before they learn basically to handle the wing and they think they can just do it. And then, every time you fall in getting back on the board and you get really tired quickly, and then you can't, it's hard to learn that on the water. The more you can figure out the wing handling on land the better. And, but what are some pointers you have? It seems like beginners always have a hard time with the catching, the tip of the wing and then the wing flipping over how do you coach people to avoid it? Yeah, I think the biggest tip that we have passed around, that's a very helpful for everybody is we always just say whatever direction you're going, punch the water or punch, punch the ground. And what that does with your backhand is make that wing fly. Because most people just pull in, it's I'd say kite surfing or other things, everybody's reaction is to pull in and if you actually steer your back, hit back hand, it makes that wing fly above your head. So it has a lot to do with just slowing down your front hand and steering with your backhand, but we always would say, punch the water, punch the ground. If you're, if you feel like that wing tip is going to catch, cause all you're really doing is just turning that wing to lift up. And that was a really helpful one. And I'll be Frank with everybody. I struggled for three days straight and I consider myself pretty skilled and I got murdered at this. I didn't grow up wind surfing. So it was like all new to me. And I did exactly what you said. I went straight into the water and I was like, I can figure this out. And I couldn't even get up on the board cause I couldn't fly the wing. And it took that process of just getting beat to, to realize that I should fly the wing a little bit more and build my way into it. Yeah. It's probably something you just have to pretty much do as get humbled a little bit to start with, so maybe if you think you can just do it, just go in the water, get humbled a little bit and then you'll figure out that you should learn it on land for us. Like we don't really need to tell people that an interesting thing is in the video that's playing right now we see Damon and Carrie Kelly is my sister-in-law and Kelly grew up in Idaho. She has never done any water sports. She has never really been in the water. Like no surfing, no no wind. Nothing in the water. And when I came here I started winging and she got interested and she wanted to learn and now she's doing it and it's been, yeah, it's been like about five months. And, but within three months, like she was like up and falling both ways. And she learned falling with the wing. Sometime the easiest way is definitely falling or I'll behind a boat, which to just, she just went straight to the wing. And so that, it shows that it's possible. You don't have to have experience doing something else, but for sure don't expect this to be easy. It's helpful anybody, but the truth is if you put in the time and you keep trying and you go and, whenever you can, you will get it at some point. So for sure, Yeah.  It's not an easy sport to learn, but it's definitely not impossible to learn, obviously. Especially if you have, some instructions and stuff like that, people. Yeah. It's funny. Cause people, when they start to foil, they always think oh yeah, I watched a bunch of videos, so I can see what they're doing. I can do it. And especially people that already know how to surf and stuff like that. And then they pretty much get humbled the first time they try it, it's definitely not, it's definitely very different from surfing. And and even with the wind surfing background and knowing how to foil already, it took me a while to learn it. Although I think for me, because I already knew how to foil and I could wind surf, it was a pretty quick learning curve, but yeah. If you have no experience with any wind sports and so on, then yeah. It's not, it's basically like you have to learn two things, foiling and weight when you're handling together. Yeah, for sure. And Gwen, he was funny when I first met him literally the day I met him, I think I gave him my winger. He's never tried it. And I'm like, I don't know. This guy seems awesome. Super genuine. I was like, take my gear and I, and it was blowing like 30 knots. He just went and he gave it a shot and that's how it started. It was awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, to me like the most important, when you do anything is like going out there and doing it. I never wait until things are perfect to study, it's if you want to get into running but you, I'm not gonna go on the run until you have the, the new shoes, the GPS watch the running shorts. For me, I'm like I want to start running. Okay. Let's do it. And maybe I'm going to go out with the wrong shoes. Okay. I figure it out on the way and along the way I make it better, but. Sometime I think one mistake that can be done is just never starting because of waiting to have every single line up perfectly. I think to me it's better to stop and have the wrong gear, have the wrong condition, but go out there and learning by making mistakes is actually a great way to learn. Yeah. Yeah. I know. It definitely sometimes people, and I think the same is true with being on YouTube. Sometimes people think they have to have a recording studio and perfect camera gear and whatever. But really a lot of times, like the way I started it was just like shooting some phones. Shooting some videos on an iPhone and then posting it. And it was, it's more about the con creating content that, that is helpful to people I think is the most important thing, really, not having perfect video, but you guys definitely do a good job on both sides. And actually, so Gwen, I'm gonna stop the screen share on here for a minute, but for you, it's, I think 6:00 PM here in Hawaii, it's like noontime. So it's a little bit early to drink beer, but I noticed that you showed us the beer can earlier. So can you, so this is really cool. It's a Cabrina drift and BU it's a collaboration between Airstory brewery based in Charleston and Cabrina, and basically it's a program called project. So it's a it's a project called new found freedom. And basically it's to help people with disabilities maybe amputee or mental disabilities or any kind of disability to help them get it. Guiding and whinging. Or the prostate from GSBM is going to to finance this project. And so last weekend we were actually in Charleston and it was a 11 participant, a lot of them from special forces they've got hurt and maybe he's yeah, like missing a leg, two legs and we got them into guiding and winging and it was like, amazing. So yeah, this is just to, to finance this project. And it should be available in many places. But for now I think you would have to go to the brewery as story. It's a story. Yeah, it's for a brewery company in China. Yeah, that's sounds great. Earlier I heard like birds chirping and stuff like that. Are you like in the forest or something like that? It sounds like you're like out in nature or something. Yeah, I'm outside on the deck. But I'm here in Cape Hatteras with even niche from Cabrina. We are filming some content with Kia, he and yeah, a bunch of writers. I saw he a couple of weeks ago on the north shore. He's so he's in on the east coast now? Yes, he's here. He's here we are. Yeah. We are like doing some filming and unfortunately this week we have no wind, but hopefully wind picks up. Okay. How come Damian's not. He didn't make, he didn't make the cups. Okay. All right. Let's talk a little bit about then more advanced stuff in wing filing. So I saw you recently just posted a video on doing three sixties, so I'm gonna, I'm going to pull that one up here, how to do a 360 video. So yeah, let's talk a little bit about the progression and tricks you're working on and maybe walk us through this one. Yeah. I just down the street 60 I, I Damien get me into trying new stuff and actually like the funniest thing is often when we make a video about something, I'm filming I'm behind the camera, but I actually learn a lot from just filming it and then I go out there and I try it. Like we made a video recently was how to work the dog guiding it's when you dumb your kid in the water, you're falling, you dumb the cat and you keep writing it and you launched a guide again. I filmed it and then right after they in was like, all right. And then. When it's going to go out there and try it. And that was not even like part of the plan. He just said it at the end of the video. But then I went out there and tried it. So yeah it's really fun. Like filming was Damon act or sold them a lot of stuff. And I go out there and try it. Yeah. That's awesome. I just saw Damien, you have your it's your daughter, right? This is a, the reason why I'm not up and the truth is Gwen's been teaching me stuff. So he's actually teaching Evan, everything up there, but really what is taking over, he is the cream of the crop, a father. This is a little Ava, she's our little nugget and I'm super blessed. I have a wonderful family, beautiful wife. And yeah so Gwen's teaching Kiani and a few things. So when you have kids also, you're fine. No. I'm I'm married, but no kids. No. Okay. Yeah. I find whenever you have I talked to about this about with keen to wild as well, and you said that when you talk about weed foiling and get all into it and think about it, stuff like that then, and then you get on the water. It's everything comes easier if you have that, the right mindset to start with. So we're talking about if you're on the way to the beach, listening to a podcast or something, or like a conversation like this kind of gets your mind in the right place and gets you stoked. And then probably the same thing when you're shooting a video and then getting the instructions and then trying it for real. So you guys have been making pretty quick progress with the wing flow. You know what I mean? Like we were saying, we were talking about how it's not that easy to learn, but once you figure it out and you progress pretty rapidly, it seems what do you agree with that? Yeah. I, here's what I would say. And, we spoke a little bit about it, but I would say there's a lot of people that are nervous about going to the beach and struggling and looking bad because they may have been a good kite surfer or maybe a good something, whatever. They're just worried about looking bad. And I always am like, okay, everybody's been there, so just go be there and you'll progress. And I say that truthfully in the best thing you can do is just go talk to people because everybody's usually willing to help or give a tip because they like to share the same passion. You, myself, Gwen, everybody likes to share information and help somebody. So I think you'd be surprised and maybe a lot of people are shy to talk to somebody. And I would always say, man, talk to people, ask questions and just watch it learn. Maybe you'll get some information, but I would say yes. The wing foiling sport is just evolving super fast. The first thing I wanted to do right off the bat was backflips and I'm still working on the backflip because. It's one of the scariest tricks that I've done, period, across the board in everything I've ever done, just cause it's I don't know you, the Chi you can hang from things. The wing is just I feel like there's just nothing there to hang you. So it's pretty wild if it goes wrong, but it's the sport's evolving incredibly fast. You're doing it in places nobody would think. And you're pulling surfers in that are foiling, and now they're like it's windy. Why not get a wing? So it's completely doable. And intercostals lakes, gusty places, mountains, absolutely endless. So that's why it's super unique. And it's just a great thing. You can share it with the whole family. Yeah. I think there is like a unique like opportunity right now to get into winging. And the amazing thing is, most people are like getting into winning, so everybody's progressing together. It's a new spot. So I think it's really fun, like right now to get into it because you figure out things like in the same time as everybody, where if you maybe sat in 10 years then, yes, there would be like more resources to progress, but I think it's really fun to be like progressing as the sport is progressing as well. For sure. And just to have the gear improving so much, like the foils are getting and the wings are getting so much better so quickly. So actually, so let's talk a little bit about the equipment. So let's start with the foils, like what kind of foils do you use and where do you recommend starting on and what are you using now? And what's the progression. Yeah. That's a loaded question. I would say look I w personally I love, I think Cabrina foils and lift walls. There. There's some my favorite foils in the industry, for sure. I would recommend to most people out there, we live in Florida. So winds are a little bit lighter, but I would even say no matter where you are in the world, it wouldn't hurt to have a wing around, call it the two fifty three hundred or 2000 square centimeter or bigger wing, which is a very large wing. And the reason why is, if you're not very good, you're at least going to have a wing that kind of gets you up the soonest as possible. The other kind of big mistake, a lot of people make is maybe they have a 12 foot board and there they throw a foil on it, and they're really struggling to even get up when it's windy. And the truth is you have a huge surface area that's sticking to the water. So you actually want the shortest thing you can get within reason with high volume or high leader. So you can actually stand on it and float and it's stable. That's the easiest, in my opinion, for learning for foil and board, as far as wings, the good Brina wings I think are absolutely awesome. We have two different versions and personally I like them both. I think the X two has incredible low end. So the sixes and sevens are incredible in the low end. And then the mantis is. Wave riding efficient machine, for sure. But I think, truthfully, I'd say wings, you could just get your hands on something and go for it is definitely, it changes things up. As you get better, you go to smaller foils. And poor Gwen. I throw everything at him. I'm like, try this, do this. Do I need to just whoa wow. Look at this. And he's doing all these tricks and I don't know. It's pretty wild to see how he went from. Here's a wing Gwen, try it in 30 knots and it's probably too big, but that's all we had. And now he's like doing three sixties and he's learning everything. And then he learned the 360 videos coming soon. But 180 360, I don't even know what it's called. Awesome. Yeah. So wait, what is that move? You're talking about, the hour drive. So the funny thing is, the funny thing is, right now for winging like tricks you don't find a lot of videos. And when I feel. On the outdrive. I actually didn't really know that there was a trick and that's just something, a transition that I would do guide falling. And I was like, ah, I think I could do it with a wing, so I just tried it. And then later I found on YouTube oh it's called now drive. And there was a video about it. So I watch it and it definitely helped me. So now we made a video about it because we just didn't like that move. And so it's fresh now mine and they can, we can really give good tips to people. But the next thing that we need to tackle is the flakka and Daniel has been like different. They're like doing it like the past. I don't know, like a couple of weeks he has been like landing like so many. The next video coming would be the flagger. Yeah, I finally is just starting to figure out how to land them, but I've done like probably hundreds of them where I crashed. So for some reason I have, so what's the secret to pulling off the landing with the wing? It seems like it's always hard to get the wing right on the landing for me. Yeah, I would say so my tips for the flakka would be, and I'm not a professional yet at it, but I would say I was always trying to just go massive. So I was just trying to do a massive 180 and truthfully, I would say I know in anything learning, I would always take small steps. So I would say, just get the full out of the water. Flip your board. One eight. And you don't need to go massive. You're just trying to get emotion and learn the most motions. If you can get the board to go 180, the next tip is when you swing that wing across into the wind, you want to try to have it as level with the horizon and actually pull your front hand close to you, which kind of levels the wing off. I would always keep it out in front of me and it just, you just get back winded and just get, smoked and flip over. But I would say just, really think of the, how the air works, hitting the wing, and I think that'll really change it. The next best thing I would say is man, try it like 50 times on the beach. Cause you're going to really learn what to do or what not to do with that wing when you spin it across. And in the wind. Yeah, the tip that gunner gave me that really helped is just to keep the wing at keep it at the level of your head that don't get it up here, keep it like this. And then that way you can spin it around. You pretty much have to bring the wind through the wind. You can't really do it over your head. Cause then it just close you backwards. Yeah. So it's like keeping the wing load. That seems to have helped me in that. And then, like you said too, like not doing like a huge air, you don't have to be super high for it. That's it. That's a good tip too. And then spinning the board first and then having everything else. Follow it. Yeah. Yeah. Just build your way into it. I think when I first saw Gwen and showed a video or something, I was like, oh my gosh, that thing's sick. The first thing I do is try to do in the air. Cause I'm like, for sure I can do three sixties all the time. Total wipe out. And I was like, okay, maybe I should build my life. So yeah, it's fun. It's fun for us. We're learning too, and that's such a passion for us because it's, every day you can learn something new and then you get to share it with people and share your mistakes, which is brilliant because that's, we're making every mistake, just like everybody else. And our goal is to be like, we did all this wrong. Sure. Try this. Cool. So what about boards? What kind of boards are you using and what was the progression on the boards of what do you recommend for beginners? And then how do you progress to where you are now? Yeah, I would say bores a totally recommend I would say general size, I would say for beginner would be anywhere from five, four to I dunno, six. Five maybe. And I say that's a little bit longer, but I say it because there are a lot of people that are very large out there and you want to make sure it's within reason to them. But I would say leader wise, I would say is the most important and with like stability. So I would say anywhere from a hundred leaders, if you're, I would say 185 pounds, that's pretty solid all the way up to, if you're 250 pounds, we're talking 130 plus leaderboard, just to give you that stability, to learn the sport a lot easier now, as you get better, that boards here's what I would say too. That's super important as you get better. Yes. You can go to all the small boards and do all the tricks, but I would even say for most people, those boards are absolutely perfect for your longevity. And the reason I say that is every day you can go and if it loads out or the wind dies, you're still milking your wing in and you're standing there going, if you have a synchronous. You're swinging them back. So you're always up and doing it versus climbing up or trying to get up. And that's very helpful. As far as like my favorite boards, I would say the Kareena macros are awesome. Lyft has an amazing wean boards as well, but I would say it's just coming up with the right size for your weight. And for me, I'm 155 pounds. And I would say to stand on around 70 liters is perfect for me to fully stand the balance on it and go. And then I would say obviously you can go a lot smaller all the way down to 28 liter boards, but it's definitely changes everything. Yeah. I meant to go on a tiny sinker board. You have to have steady strong winds. So it's hard to do that with when the wind starts to drop off and stuff. Okay. So w where do you what does the future hold, like? Where do you see the sport going and what do you see for equipment? Do you have any ideas or things you would like to see in the future? I'll jump in quick and then I'll let him go ahead and jump in here. Cause I'm always talking. That's my issue. I'm sorry guys. But I, I was just talking to a guy on a phone yesterday and I see this at resorts. I know it sounds crazy ski resorts open area resorts snow, because the easiest way to learn this would be on the snow or the ice, like for sure, because you're actually, I would say land boarding, but I would even say if people ski or snowboard, it's the perfect way to learn it because you're early. Kind of going, you just stand there and there's no, there's not a lot of surface tension, so you can just go so you can learn the wing and you can actually do this. And I could see people going across sliders and hidden kickers. And I just see it, I see that potential, but I would say the biggest thing it does, that's super unique to me is it takes places that you never thought you would ever wing an opportunity to go play. And what I mean by that is kitesurfing you, professionals can get into some pretty crazy places in gusty winds, but I would say the winging, you can go anywhere and you can really, it opens the doors to a lot of incredible opportunities. So I think this word is going to boom. For sure. Yeah, I was living in I'd hope before I came to Florida and I was guiding on the lake. It's a big lake and it's amazing, but people cannot get into cutting them because yeah, trees everywhere. The launch is super sketchy. There's no way you can learn. There is no beach, like it's right. Like the trees and then the water often the wind from where you have to stand from the wind is offshore. So you have, and then the wind drops and like you end up swimming with all Yogi. And that's where I see winging is going to be a game changer. So like in places like this, like a mountain now people are not going to be able to stop winging because it's a lot safer. If the wind dies, you Alan's is big bone. You can swim back. No problem. If it's gusty, no problem. It's gonna open definitely like new locations and make it possible to a lot of people that would have never considered guiding is intimidating. And I think meaning is really gonna appeal to a lot more people just because we is, I wouldn't say it's easier, but I would say it's a lot safer when you talk a lot more big enough. Yeah, that's a good point. And actually I wanted to give a shout out to this, our, a YouTube watcher. His name is Joe skill, and he's a paraplegic. He's actually the one who said, I should interview you Damien and has been watching all your videos and all my videos. And he's totally into winning even though he's in a wheelchair. And so I wanted to ask you Glenn, like you said you when did that, with disabled people, so how do you get introduced to someone with that's a paraplegic? How do you introduce them to these sports? Yeah we, this weekend, this past weekend we had somebody that was missing two legs. And we just had him on the standup paddle. He was able to see it so he was just sitting on the standup paddle with the wing and and he had a lot of fun. For him it's something like he would have never considered. If you are already into like wing falling, you might think, okay. Doing the wing on the standup, other is not that fun, but for him, it was a an incredible experience that he would have never even been able to do it. He was also, we introduced him to cutting also, and he was doing body drag and had so much fun. So it's not about in this case it's not about having him like, okay. The only way to do it is having on the wing, up on the phone. No, there is in-between, there is a lot of way to do it. That is still going to be really fun for him because yeah, it being on the wetsuit, being connected with the wind and everything, it is an incredible. Yeah, that sounds great. I was also thinking, actually Joe was saying that he was thinking about doing it with a small wing in a sport wheelchair and just like on, on a parking lot or something like that. And that, that sounded interesting too, an interesting way to do it. Yeah, for sure. He'll be going and doing backflips in no time. Yeah. Sounds like he's into, so let's talk a little bit about the YouTube channel. So what are your goals? What's your strategy? What, I know you said you're putting out a new video twice a week. How do you do that and how do you keep that motivation to, to, I know it's a lot of work to write, to, to produce all the video and the editing and. Yeah. I would say the motivation we're we're we have plenty of motivation and I can go down and just unleash because there's so much information out there that we can share with people. And it's not that we can't, we just, anybody can really, and we just have the opportunity to be able to work good together. And I would say, truthfully, I've never met somebody. And like Gwen, because he's so quick and motivated and he sees the biggest thing. I would say that, that I would say most people struggle with in video is what is your direction? What is your goal? I would say Robert, you're actually brilliant at it, but you have a reason behind everything and you put it together and it's an, it's a presentation that people want. Capture that info Gwen, same thing. He has a vision when he makes a video it's going to be, this is the message. And I think that's the best thing you can have is just have an opening and middle and an end and a message. And so our goal is to share as much info with people. And I would say, there's days we go and we do, I think truthfully, our max day was 10 videos in a day, but in a four hour period now, is it all the footage in that day? No, we've captured the footage throughout times doing different things. But I would say, I think the motivation is there big time, because it's so exciting to hear people that just get, get, are living their best life because of it or just even if they gave it a shot and they're enjoying it and they're struggling, but they're enjoying it to us. That's everything. Just the. Life is about living. It's hard to get up sometimes and it's hard to, look at the positives. And I think that's the reason why we're trying to pump them out as many as we can to just help people. Yeah. So the funny thing is just an hour ago I was filming a division. Somebody came up to me and asked are you going I just watched your video. And actually it was like the dark drive. And now he's getting, he just did the duck drive and now he's getting into the 360. Like this, like we really see that we are making a difference. People are commenting on the YouTube channel all the time. And we go to the beach and people are coming to us. And on this day, like the biggest thing I think that is keeping us going is that we enjoy the process. We want to, we have, we want to make help as many people as possible, but we don't have a goal of, I dunno, getting like a million subscribers or, it would be great, but the truth is even if we don't, we are still going to do it because that process is what we enjoy. We are doing it and that's fulfilling in itself. Yeah, that's great. That, that happens to me a lot too. Like when I go down to the beach, not even just in Hawaii, anywhere in the world, really like in, in Holland or in Australia, people come up to me as oh, I learned how to win, how to stand up pallet board from you or whatever. So it's pretty pretty cool to, to get that kind of feedback for sure. But here's that video about how to duct jibes? So maybe we can break that down a little bit the learning, how to deduct Jack, cause people have been asking me about that. What are you doing? How do you do that? This one's classic because I'm that gentleman who's in this video, we call him the legend. His name is Harry Andrews. Andrew's any truly is a legend. This guy he's done it all. And I've been lucky enough to know him for many years. And when I say done it all learned to paraglide together, race, motor, cross. Absolutely. The guy does everything and he does it like, we talk about Kioski and Glenn and Evan and all these professional kites are hers. You watch Harry at the beach. He's like doing all these board offs and flipping it around and putting it on his feet. The guy is incredible, but we're lucky enough to have him here in Jupiter is a dear friend of mine. And One day. He's God, Damien, I'm doing the duck job. I'm like, what the heck is a duck job? I've never, ever heard of a duck jive. And he's out there practicing it. And so the next day I'm like, wait, dude, Harry's doing the duck jab. I don't even know what it is. So I went and tried it and I'd go into these downwind turns going like a hundred miles an hour on the wing would hit me and flip and twist. And I was like total disaster. But my tips to everybody trying to learn how to duck jive would be try it on the beach again. I always say that, but you can really learn your hands and what to do with the wing on the beach first. And you can, watch these videos and in Gwen slows it down so you can actually see the process of the wing and how to drop it. But the most important thing is you're going to, you're going to crack off downwind because you need to take the tension out of the wing, but you can't crack off to straight down in, or else you're actually gonna have a backwind issue, but I would say you need to be going down when and that's going to help take some pressure off. And then you just steer your way around and you're going to drop that wing down and it's going to circle around. And, but I would say the biggest tip to me, I would say is there's a downwind movement. And that's, you got to take the pressure off that wean for it to spin. Yeah. Releasing the pressure from the wing. And then I like to like the back handle, I'd like to move my backend forward to the second handle so I can grab the very back handle with my backhand. And then I look for the front handle. Like I like, I always that's if you miss that, grabbing the front handle on the other side, then it's really hard to pull it off. So the quicker you can grab that and get your hand on the front handle again, then it's free twist or preterm. And I would say everybody's different, right? So some people have comfortable things like Gwen learning a new trick off the pay took it. Cause it just felt comfortable. If you feel comfortable, maybe twisting your handle before you go into it, try it because it may work for you. It may not work for others, it never hurts to try some of these things to better your progress that day. Yeah. Right on. I hear we're getting another, yeah. So these ads are obviously pretty annoying for people who watch the videos, but that's how YouTube is get a little bit of money from the videos. So here he's yeah, grabbing the wing pretty far in the back, grabbing the front handle sometimes. Yeah. Like when I crashed and CG, cause they don't grab the front panel. That seems to be the one of my issues, which is nice on like the wing that we are using Damien and in Harry and I the Cabrina X tool, like the handles are very wide and I totally I really loved that because he makes grabbing the handle on, in this case, like a bit easier. And then one of the advantages of this move to an in light wind, if you do it right, you can do it completely without getting back winded. Versus sometimes if you do a regular jibe and you're moving down, when you get like the apparent wind can actually be against you. So you can get back winded sometimes in the light went jive. So I liked doing it in really light wind conditions sometimes. Yeah. Good move to learn. That's what we ride in. So that's where we'd love to try an island. What conditions do you have usually? What are the winds like and how the yeah. What kind of conditions. I'd say we get to choose to, I'd say we get five to third, I would say, there's, we used to have a lot of cold fronts that were really powerful and we'd have 30 plus, but I would say on average you would be a good day and be like 12 to 25 maybe. Or in the twenties, that'd be a magical day. So it's perfect for learning, but it's we don't really get the cold fronts like we used to get and we still do, but it's definitely less and less. So the wind is not like Hawaii or it can sustain 30 to 40 all the time. So yeah. Yeah. It's a little bit different for us here on Oahu and Maui. Just the way the island is shaped with the wind. It kind of funnels the wind between the two sides of the island, but on a wall it's usually like about 10 knots later than on Maui. As when we can barely get going, it's already cranking on Maori, so it's not where it's not quite always, but at least we do have steady Tradewinds and yeah. Luckily global warming hasn't affected the Tradewinds. It seems plus on the wing foiling, you can really get going and less wind than you need for windsurfing or even cutting, I think or in gusty winds, it just works better because yeah, if you have to wait for a couple of minutes for the next Gustin, once you're up on the foil it's pretty easy to keep it going, even in really light winds. Yeah, it's and that's, you nailed that perfectly is, you're in a lighter wind spot, we're in a lighter wind spot. And I would say across the country, there's a lot of places that are light winds, but even gusty. And I would say to throw a kite up a hundred meter line or a hundred feet line and have kites phone and disasters, it's just so easy to grab a wing and give it a shot. And I think, Gwen nailed that earlier, but that's that's why it's so achievable for people. And you truly can go live your best life and try something new and learn something new because we all like learning. And that's what it's all about. So as we learn how to do duck jives and all these things that this legend here brings to us, and we're like, what was that? What are we doing? Okay, we're going to try that. That's great. In terms of the skills that you have, would you say a lot of, oh, that one. I'm just watching it, the video here, but it's the skills that you have, like how much of it is like talent, like natural God-given talent and how much of it is just practicing and doing it over and over and screwing up until you can find me do it. I would say for most people, look, everybody's been given a talent and I would say for sure, there's people out there that are significantly, you know, more, advance or they've been given stronger muscles or whatever it may be. But I would say, I would just say to anybody out there. Yes. You put a lot of time in the water, you're going to get good at it. A lot of people skiing, I always remember this. It's a good analogy, but everybody skiing would say, man, you're really good at skiing or whatever. And I'm like I skied every single day, literally through the summer, every single day, every day I could. And they would only go on a ski trip three times a year. You're only going to be as good as how much effort you put into whatever you do. Make sure to put effort into something and just like Landon or yourself, you study it, you learn it, you learn your craft and you'll be incredible at it. I would say I'm very blessed and I've been very skilled and I'm but I would say I'm no different than anybody out there. And I say that truthfully, because you can learn something if you put your mind to it. And I don't care if you're 200 pounds, I just think anything is possible. If you really just put your mind to it. He's teaching right now. Yeah. No, not quite. So do you ever a lot, I think a lot of it is really is mental. Like some days you go out and everything's just perfect, you're in tune with the conditions in your equipment. Everything's perfect. And you feel like Superman, you can do anything. You can pull off all kinds of moves. And then the next day you go out on the same equipment, the same conditions, and you're like a total cook again. So does that ever happen to you and is there anything you can do about that or your mindset? Yeah, I would say, you nailed it and you've opened it that way, but I would say, look, you always got to go into every day, every session, every work appointment, every time with your wife or your loved one, whatever it is always be looking for the positive in whatever the situation is because you're spot on. For everyone already out there, Gwen and I go down to the beach and we may have learned a new trick and then the next day you can't do it because you just, it didn't click again and that's normal and that's totally fine because maybe your muscles are fatigued or maybe you just are a little off or the conditions are a little bit harder or whatever it may be. That's part of the learning process. So don't, if you get it and you get up willing in one day, don't think tomorrow you're going to be winging exactly the same, it will still keep coming. But I think a lot of people get frustrated or they get beat down and I would just say, look, be open to maybe it wasn't the perfect conditions. Maybe I just wasn't on my game today. So it's a hundred percent mental and it's how you look at it and always have a better outlook on whatever it is, whether it's winging or life or depression or whatever, just you got to have a better outlook. And I think if you change that mentally and your whole life and work and relationships and weaning and. Will just absolutely blow your mind. You will change. You will surround yourself with good people. All of a sudden, opportunities will come, you'll learn the duck jive like I did. And that was just cause I was surrounding myself with good people and Gwen did the 180, whatever it was called. I still don't even know what it's called, that's how I learned it. I didn't think of it, but it was a great opportunity to see it. Wow. This is great. I'm looking at the positive. Let's give it a shot versus I'll never do it. I'm not going to try it. I can do these other things. I'm really good at I'm going to keep doing them instead. I'm like open to try it. Why not? What's the worst can happen. I crashed, I looked like a moron. I crashed all the time and a lot of people are nervous to crash or look bad. And I would say, look, that is life learning, making mistakes, and your mistakes lead you to be a better person and relationships and work and business and you name it. And that's how you learn. So I've made a lot of mistakes. So I get pretty good things. Yeah. I think I would say sometime you have to detach yourself from from the goal or like still have a goal, but not be so like the fulfilling path is an only attributing the goal the process should be fulfilling. And if you can do that then. Whatever the outcome is, you're going to be stoked because you are doing, you are in the process. So for me, I just see it as how, however frustrating it is that sometime that as good as the day from before but you are still out there and that's the process. And so that, try to get that being fully fulfilling and the outcome when, the outcome is good or not. That's okay. But if you put in the time and you go out there and you have fun and you enjoy the process. Yeah. It wouldn't be, it would be good. Yeah. You still learn something even when you're a coop and nothing's working, but let's say, do you have any pointers for someone that's stuck in that negative mindset or whatever, getting upset with themselves or being stuck in a negative mindset? How can you turn that around as the more positive and optimistic or, obviously you learn a lot better when you're, when you have a positive mindset, right? Yeah. We joke, but we'll we'll text you Harry's phone number so everybody can call Harry and they can personally get advice. Now I would just say, look, everybody goes through this. Just know that you're not the only one. And the ways to get out of it is to say yes, just say yes to something, get up and do something and it can be anything. It can be, go for a walk. It can be just get up and do something. Because if you just keep dwelling on it, you will just put yourself lower and whatever it may be, or you'll get deflated. And you just don't want to try anything. You don't want to do anything. And I would say the best thing you can do is change your scenery, change, whatever you're doing, get up, do something different. Yeah. Take your brain off it, take a break, relax, whatever it may be. Just change that but know that there's the process. The process that Gwen speaks about is everything. I went to Hawaii. I think I have the speed record with Alex Guerin Hawaii. Maybe. I don't even know if that stands, but that was a process to get a speed record in Hawaii. It was not about getting a speed record. It was about. Going out with my buddy and going as fast as I can, and his daughter did it and it was just incredible experience. And did we know we could do it? We didn't even know if the wind was going to be perfect. We thought it would be, but who knows? It's when and you just don't know. So just get up and always look at the glass, full it's just there, you just, if your car breaks down, locate ran good until today. That's okay. Get it fixed. Moving on and look at the positive. Don't look at my life's over. Oh my gosh. It's there, there's no gain from that. Yeah. And I would say every time you do something and you failed, it's good because that means you are one step closer to six to succeed. The more you fail, the closer you get to, being successful. So don't get discouraged and, and draw the process. And the more you fail, the better you're going to get. Yeah. It's like that quote from Wayne, Gretzky, like that you miss every shot you don't take. So just, you gotta keep trying to achieve things, even if you have to fail or, hundreds of times or thousands of sense I was thinking about that Thomas Edison failed like thousands of times before you invented the light bulb. Yeah, not giving up too easily. It's part of it. And I think a lot of people a dear friend of mine, Julie Mancusos Olympic athlete or Olympic medalist, many time, whatever. And even when I won my world championship, you're your pinnacle, people think it's, that's the moment. That moment is just okay, what do I do next? So just know that, your life, whether it'll go through these roller coaster. So the best thing you can do is always just keep learning, keep trying, keep opening the door to try new things, because that'll keep a healthy lifestyle versus getting so fixated on something that if you don't achieve it, I don't make a million dollars. I don't get the cool job. I don't get the perfect setup, whatever it may be. You're just going to get crushed versus. How many workers are as I can today may lead to me owning my own business. But you just got to, always have a goal or a dream, for sure. I think that's a really good thing and work hard and treat people the way that you would want to be treated. And I think you'll be incredibly successful. Yeah. That's a good point. One thing that people say, like writing down goals, like in, in writing or telling other people about it, it holds you more accountable to achieving that goal. Is that something you agree with? Is that something you do that you have written goals? Yeah. We have 15 notebooks here of videos that are coming. I'm just kidding. I just think, yes, I've always been whether it's writing it down or having it in the back of your brain, but the most important thing. And I'm one to know cause I've, I had a pretty bad accident midway through my life here that led me to my beautiful wife and a lot of great things. Everything happens in life. So I would say just because you think you're meant to be something, so say I thought my whole life, I was going to be one of the best ski racers in the world who would have known, I would have ended up in Florida, playing with wings and kitesurfing and who knows, so just start taking those roads and it's gonna lead you to some special, incredible opportunities in life. I would just always be open to learning and take different paths and you'd be pretty excited on your outcome. Do you have anything to add that to that wins? Yeah. I've done so many things in my life, like trench change like path so many times. And I come from a family that's very traditional, like in a way, like you, you go to school for something and then you get that job and then you keep that job and you get married, you have kids and you retire and that's it. But for me I, I've never been change is scary sometimes. In the end, like you just have to be open trigger yourself first. Like when you do something and and it's not fulfilling or it doesn't make you happy, then you, it's your responsibility to find what's, what you want to do. What's what makes you happy? I think that's the priority. And then that will lead you to many different ways and it's not going to be a straight line, but if you if you are open to trying new things, if you keep don't get stuck somewhere and opportunities come all the time. So you just have to be open to it and change path. When. Yeah, definitely. And I agree that you don't have to live a boring life. That's what you make of it. So courage everyone to try to live their life to the fullest. So let's talk a little bit about the, kind of the obsession with foiling. Once you get into foiling, you get that feeling and it's I want to say it's like an addiction or it's like a drug that you want again and again. So is there a dark side to it? Is there like a downside or is it just a healthy thing for you? Is there, do you ever feel like it's, maybe there's a negative downside to it. I think the negative would be like, if you're in a relationship, you have to buy multiple foils for sure. For your wife, for your kids, that would be the negative of it. No, I would say, they're, I would say the negative that everybody is always worried about, is it danger? I'm going to get caught. I heard of people getting cut or hurt or, and I would just say, look, yes, it's dangerous. But I would say you get into your car every day. That is 10 times more dangerous. And everything is within reason. So if you take it slow and watch your YouTube channel and learn all this stuff and you can do it and you can learn safely and you may have some setbacks. That's all part of it. But I would say it's everything in life has it's dangerous. And if you're always worried about every danger, you're never going to do anything. So you got to take a little bit of a risk and go talk to the girl that you wanted to talk to. If you don't talk to her, you're never going to get her for sure. So take that risk and talk to her. So there's so many things that it leads to in life. And I would say with foiling, the biggest one is danger. And I would say it's only is danger is dangerous as you make it. Learn to Hamilton and Benny. And some of these guys do, and, in Kailani doing the massive waves, that's pushing the limit, but they're also, that is their challenge and learning of them, what is possible. And I think that's their level, mine may be on a two foot piece of chop and I get scared and I go home. It could be that, but I'm okay with that. And it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. It's different levels of risk. I just watched that a movie about the guy what's his name? Alex Honnold climbing free soloing, El Capitan in Yosemite with like super hard sections, super high off of the ground. That was incredible. So compared to that, I think wing filing is pretty safe compared to that. And especially on the water, but I get one thing I would say, if you're doing it on land, like on a skateboard or an ice, you do have to be careful, especially when you go fast. A lot of times you can't. Hold up your head. So if you hit the ground and your head hits the it's, the ice, or that the ground, you can actually get pretty injured. So wearing a helmet and knee pads, elbow pads, and all that kind of stuff. It's definitely a good idea. If your issue, you're not doing it in the wall. And even the water, I think you wearing a helmet is a good idea when you're doing crazy moves, like flips and stuff like that. We're not going to hurt at all. Any type of safety, Mo impact this to even full wetsuits. So you don't get all scraped up when you're climbing up and down off the board learning, booties for chafing, the top of your feet. I know I needed them the first day when I gave him all my wing stuff, he came home like bloody, and I was like, ok

Joanna Wiebe is the Founder and Conversion Copywriter at Copyhackers, as well as the Co-Founder and Head of Growth at Airstory. As the original conversion copywriter with a career that spans almost 15 years, Joanna has worked with incredible companies such as BT, Canva, Glowforge, Prezi, and many more. In addition to writing top-notch copy, Joanna has also coached and advised more than 70,000 businesses of all shapes and sizes. In this episode… Communication is one of the most important tools that we have as humans. Consequently, words can also be one of the hardest tools to master. That’s why professional copywriters are such an integral part of marketing—without engaging and professional writing, many marketing and advertising attempts would fail.  Joanna Wiebe discovered the value of writing when she dropped out of law school and began to work as a copywriter. At first, Joanna branded herself as a ‘creative writer’ because the title of ‘copywriter’ sounded too banal. However, with time and experience, Joanna began to appreciate and embrace copywriting as her true calling in life. Now, she’s taking the copywriting world by storm with her successful companies, Copyhackers and Airstory.  If you want to learn the best tips and tricks for copywriting and marketing, this episode of Inspired Insider with Dr. Jeremy Weisz is for you! Tune in as Jeremy sits down with Joanna Wiebe of Copyhackers and Airstory to discuss her biggest influences, the relationship between design and copy, and her top strategies for engaging users. Joanna’s story is honest and inspiring, and her practical advice for writers and marketers may just change your career.

Stai ascoltando un estratto gratuito di Ninja PRO, la selezione quotidiana di notizie per i professionisti del digital business. Con Ninja PRO puoi avere ogni giorno marketing insight, social media update, tech news, business events e una selezione di articoli di approfondimento dagli esperti della Redazione Ninja. Vai su www.ninja.it/ninjapro per abbonarti al servizio.Confcommercio 50 Mld in meno di consumi. Un comunicato stampa dell'associazione prevede l'effetto del Covid-19 sull'economia italiana con danni fino a 50 mld nell'ipotesi di una normalizzazione ad Ottobre. I settori più colpiti sarebbero alberghi e ristorazione, trasporti e acquisto autoveicoli, cultura, tempo libero e abbigliamento. Monito dall'Organizzazione Mondiale della Sanità. I governi dovrebbero smettere di perdere tempo prezioso per combattere il Coronavirus dopo aver sprecato un'opportunità per prevenire la pandemia di Covid-19, ha detto il capo dell'OMS, in un accorato appello fuori dal comune. Problemi per i finanziamenti nelle Sart Up. I finanziamenti iniziali per le startup si stanno prosciugando, creando problemi per le grandi aziende che di solito cercano di accaparrarsi tecnologie e talenti innovativi attraverso acquisizioni delle aziende più promettenti.Creare bozze interattive. Il processo che va dal draft al contenuto finale può essere fatto di moltissimi step per copywriter e content creator. Airstory aiuta a tenere traccia di tutti i passaggi aggiungendo valore al contenuto. Tutto anche in versione free.

GotTechED the Podcast Episode #51 Organizational EdTech from NJECC 2020 In this episode of GotTechED the Podcast we discuss: The NJECC 2020 Conference 10 Organizational Edtech Tools Slidesmania.com If you are a new listener to GotTechED the Podcast, we would love to hear from you.  Please visit our (https://gotteched.com/contact-us/#) and let us know how we can help you today! Segment 1: NJECCSegment 2: Organizational Edtech OneTab (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/onetab/chphlpgkkbolifaimnlloiipkdnihall?hl=en) Trello (https://trello.com/en) (thank you @kyleniemis) Extensity (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/extensity/jjmflmamggggndanpgfnpelongoepncg?hl=en) Todoist (https://todoist.com/) The Great Suspender (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/the-great-suspender/klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg?hl=en)   Speed Dial 2 New Tab (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/speed-dial-2-new-tab/jpfpebmajhhopeonhlcgidhclcccjcik?hl=en) Dashlane Password manager (https://www.dashlane.com/features/password-manager) (much like lastpass) Airstory (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/airstory/hbbiclkampjdicikmgffdlmpneocglgp) Organizely (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/organizelyme/olmbabegcnhohbgdkmebdgbdpaknnddj?hl=en)   OneNote Web Clipper (https://www.onenote.com/clipper)   Segment 3:  slidesmania.com (https://slidesmania.com/) to get started! Music Credits:The Degs: Shotgun http://freemusicarchive.org/music/The_Degs/ (http://freemusicarchive.org/music/The_Degs/) @bensounds https://www.bensound.com/ (https://www.bensound.com/) Subscribe to our Podcast Apple Podcasts (https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/gotteched/id1358366637?mt=2) Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/7zyzfCkSDNHkKdqxmh9XLB?si=YhSdMa6BQVmcLHbSrYxE9Q) Google Podcasts (https://play.google.com/music/listen?u=0#/ps/Indeizidhz4h37mawfylwdgco4y)    Stitcher (https://www.stitcher.com/search?q=gotteched)    YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMIQwu39Tkow3kduRQAH85w?view_as=subscriber)    Twitter (https://twitter.com/WeGotTechED)     Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/WeGotTechED/) Connect with us on Social MediaGuise on Twitter @guisegotteched (https://twitter.com/GuiseGotTechEd) Nick on Twitter @nickgotteched (https://twitter.com/NickGotTechEd) GotTechED the Podcast on Twitter @wegotteched (https://twitter.com/WeGotTechEd) Join the Conversation and our PLNOur favorite part of recording a live podcast each week is participating in the great conversations that happen on our Facebook Group Page (https://www.facebook.com/WeGotTechED/) .    This weeks question is: Question: What are some #edtech apps that help you get organized? Need a Presenter?As experienced presenters and content creators, you can contact Nick and Guise to speak at your school, event, or conference. They can customize a workshop that meets your organization’s unique time and content needs. While no topic is out of bounds, GotTechED is best known for sessions on: 1:1 Chromebook Integration EdTech Throwdown TargetED Learning Gamification (Badge Systems) Game-Based Learning (Escape Rooms, Amazing Race, and more) Google apps and extensions Personalized learning and Choice Boards Teacher productivity (Lesson Planning, Online Grading. and Feedback) Digital content creation Student Podcasting Screencasting Flipped Classroom Student-Centered Learning

Copywriter Colin Theriot joins Rob and Kira for the 104th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Colin is well known as the leader of the Cult of Copy (as well as four or five other related Facebook groups). He often jumps into the club to answer questions or comment on something, and we thought it was about time to talk shop with him. In our discussion, we covered: •  how Colin became a copywriter •  why he started The Cult of Copy •  the short cut to getting people to know who you are •  how beginning copywriters can create a copy learning experience •  the most important thing for beginners to learn (this skill is portable) •  his philosophy for running more than one Facebook group •  why he offers a “jobs” group and why you probably shouldn’t use it •  the five Vs of the Viking Velociraptor Formula

Copywriter, course creator, and coach, Belinda Weaver joins Kira and Rob for the 103rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Belinda's also the co-host of the popular Hot Copy podcast. We talked with Belinda about the variety of ways she's created income streams for her business. Note: links and a full list of what we discussed is coming soon. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You're invited to join the club for episode 103 as we chat with freelance copywriter and coach Belinda Weaver about building an information business as a copywriter, what she's learned coaching other writers, creating courses, and running one of the most popular copywriting podcasts, and how tap dancing makes her a better copywriter. Welcome, Belinda. Rob:   Hey, Belinda. Belinda:   Hi, guys. It's really great to be here. Tap dancing, flashback. Oh my gosh. Rob:   Should we jump into tap dancing immediately, or do we want to save that to the end? Belinda:   It's completely up to you. I think it's a lovely hook we can leave people with. Kira:   Let’s save that for the end. Let's start with your story, Belinda, and how you got into copywriting. Belinda:   Well, like most people, had a day job I didn't really like, was looking for an opportunity to do something else. I was working in marketing in Melbourne. We lived just over an hour out of the city, so two plus hours of commuting every day, plus a job I didn't really like. My husband and I started talking about a family, and I started thinking, ‘Well, how is this going to work?’ So I was open to new opportunities, and then I got taken to this kind of sales day with the job. It's a lot of people standing up, giving presentations, doing their pitches. One of them was about copywriting. Now, I did copywriting every day, but I didn't know it was a thing you could actually do as a job on its own. So when, at the end of the presentation, this copywriter started talking about running your own business as a freelance copywriter, I didn't listen to the rest of the day, because that was the idea that I'd been waiting for. As soon as we got back to work, I quietly registered my business. Maybe not that day. I took a day or two to brainstorm a name, but I registered my business. Then, while I was pretending to work, I started marketing and figuring out how to run a business and developing service packages, and then being on social media, and I started getting work. So I did that for about six months. I did my day job. I worked, did copywriting at night and on the weekends. Then after about six months, I was confident enough in my marketing abilities to know that I could get more work. So I was getting regular leads coming in, and I thought, ‘Yeah, I can do this.’ Then on my last day, rather than walking through the office going, ‘Screw you all,’ I put together a presentation for the MD, and I said, ‘I can save you $20,000 on your marketing if you keep me on at my new freelance rate,’ and I just stopped doing all the time-wasting activities. I divided my job into value tasks and low-value tasks, and I had this whole little spiel, and he actually agreed before the presentation had finished. So I had my first client before the end of the day. Rob:   Wow. I mean, that's so smart. Love it.

Community manager Harmony Eichsteadt is the guest for the 102nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We chatted with Harmony about a wide range of topics related to connecting with clients to building communities for both customers and peers. Harmony knows a thing or two about building healthy communities—she’s done it with groups like The Good Life Project and NationBuilder. We asked Harmony about: •  how she became a community manager (with stops as a dating coach and cancer survivor along the way) •  the first steps to take to build a community around ourselves •  who is better for community building: introverts or extroverts •  the biggest misconceptions around building a community •  where you can build a community and how (it’s not just online) •  some of the benefits of building and belonging to a community of copywriters •  how to connect with others within communities you don’t own •  whether there’s a growing hunger for new communities today •  why everyone is already a community leader and how to get better •  the differences between online and offline community interaction •  how to connect with people in the real world •  how copywriters can build deeper connections with other writers We also asked Harmony for her advice about when you run an event (we’re starting to think about round two for TCC IRL) and what it takes to win a poetry slam. She let’s us in on the fact that we probably won’t win one. Maybe we’ll have Harmony to our next event to perform a bit of her award-winning poetry—yeah? To hear this one, simply click the play button below, or download it to your favorite podcast app. Want to read it instead? Scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Inward 2019 Event Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 102 as we chat with professional community builder, Harmony Eichsteadt about what it takes to create strong communities, how to work a room online and off, what she does to land and rock a speaking gig, and writing poetry good enough to win a poetry slam. Kira:   Welcome Harmony. Rob:   Hey Harmony. Harmony:     Thanks so much for having me. Kira:   We’re excited that you're here so we can talk about something that we really haven't covered on this podcast. All about community development, community engagement and relationships. So, why don't we kick it off with your story. How did you end up as a relationship and community expert? Harmony:     It's such a good question and I think for many of us we can start the story at a lot of different places. So, the more deeply I get into my work, the more I can see tendrils from even my childhood of like, ‘I've always been very fascinated about connecting people.’ So, I think there's some thread that was maybe there from a young age, but how it crystallized for me was actually I started out as a dating coach, which I think is, now I think is very funny. I spent a few years working with people on writing dating profiles, on how to flirt, and think about developing relationships. That morphed into this current career for a few different reasons. One is that I got diagnosed with thyroid cancer when I was 29 and that was not what I was planning to do with my 29th year on the planet. I had other items on my agenda, but it threw a monkey wrench in things.

Copywriter Erica Strauss joins Kira and Rob for the 93rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Erica is doing something a little different in her business than what most copywriters are doing... working with a direct sales company to add another revenue stream to her personal business. So far it's working, and we wanted to know more. We also talked about: •  how Erica started her copywriting career at age 10 •  what she learned about copywriting from working as a gossip columnist •  why she decided NOT to finish her master’s degree •  how Erica makes retainers work for her andher clients •  what she typically charges for one of her projects •  how she started copy coaching •  the challenges of growing a copywriting business quickly •  what she did to overcome the burnout that comes with so much work •  how her business is shifting to include other income streams •  what to consider if you’re interested in network marketing •  how Erica connects with clients and gets to know their voice and stories •  what she’s doing on Facebook Live and her tips for doing it well •  why relationships are so important as copywriters •  where her business is going from here •  why she loves rap and EDM—and how it makes her a better write We also talked about her processes and tips for writing taglines and naming products—and why she offers this service to her clients. And as we often do, we asked her about the future of copywriting. To hear what Erica had to share, click the play button below or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Lisa Vanderpump Marie Forleo EricaLeeXO.com Erica on Facebook Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Kira:   The Copywriter Club Podcastis sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira:   You’re invited to join the club for episode 93 as we chat with copywriter and communications strategists Erica Lee Strauss about her stint as a gossip columnist. Helping entrepreneurs communicate their stories, burning out and finding a purpose, copy coaching and her love of EDM. Welcome Erica. Rob:   Hey Erica. Erica:Hi guys. Thanks for having me. Rob:   We’re stocked to have you. Kira:   Yeah, so Erica, let’s start with your story, how did you end up as a copywriter? Erica:Oh my gosh you guys. Okay, so honestly I was one of those annoying little kids who always knew what they wanted to do. I was sending out manuscripts and God knows what they were like. I was sending out manuscripts at age 10. Actually started an online magazine back in the days of like AOL and CompuServe, and kind of had my first mailing list back then. Had a little mailing list of like, I guess it wasn’t so little, it was 2000 people. I had a little online magazine and just always knew that I wanted to write or like wanted to do something. I thought it would be with editorial basically, I thought I would do something in magazines. I actually wrote my first article for a magazine at age 10, because somebody at Girls Life Magazine got wind of the fact that I was this 10 year old having this, writing this online magazine. They contacted me to write an article for their reader’s issue, and as soon as I saw my name in print, I was completely hooked. I just knew that that was going to be the thing, like I definitely was going to go down the magazine journalism path. I did. I went to college for that, and it was kind of during that weird time where everyone wasn’t sure really w...

Frameworks specialist, Mel Abraham is our guest for the 89th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Mel’s got an interesting background that launched him as an expert is building expertise (kind of meta, right?), which means he is the perfect person to talk about client relationships and how to establish your expertise before you work with a client. We talked about: •  how he learned to leverage his experience to build a real business •  how to stop exchanging hours for dollars and sell your true value •  the risks and rewards of project pricing •  what you have to do to get clients past the “yellow light” •  how you can help clients see the value of what you do before they hire you •  what to cover in your first call with a potential client •  how to know if you’re an expert or a thought leader •  the “prolific power of positioning” and how to use it for your business •  all about frameworks and why you need one •  the steps to follow for creating a framework for your business •  how copywriters can build their own credibility As usual, there’s a lot of good stuff in this episode. To hear it, visit iTunes, Stitcher or open up your favorite podcast app and search for The Copywriter Club. Or just scroll down and click the play button below. Keep scrolling for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Thoughtpreneur Academy The Entrepreneur’s Solution by Mel Abraham Stephen Covey James Wedmore Mel’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 89, as we talk with entrepreneur and business advisor Mel Abraham about building a successful business from nothing, what you need to do to become an influencer and make a real impact, the importance of frameworks, and how to write a national bestseller. Kira: Welcome, Mel. Mel: How are you doing? Rob: Mel, it’s great to have you here. We’re thrilled to be talking to you. Mel: Yeah, it’s fun. Kira: All right Mel, so let’s just start with your story; how did you end up building your online building empire? Mel: Wow. I guess, you know, it’s a non-traditional thing. It wasn’t like I grew up with the internet; I grew up well before the internet, and I was the traditional CPA. I’m a  CPA by education, but I was building an expert business before I knew what an expert business was. And it was pre-internet; I needed to build a practice. I needed to get clients; I needed to get known; I needed to get myself out there, and the only way to do it back then was direct mail, you know; networking; speaking; and writing articles. And that’s what I did to do this. And as time went on, I started to realize that the game that I was sold—swapping hours for dollars—is the absolute worst business model I that could ever be sold to someone, and should be burned at the stake! And I tried to figure out, how do I leverage my expertise, and how do I leverage that stuff? And you know, we may get more into it, but what I was building at the time was as an expert witness, strategic consultant, or businesses. I was helping them build businesses, but I was doing a lot of testimony at trial in litigation, which was such a negative environment, that I got tired of it. And I said, well, where can my skills work and where can I leverage those skills better, and that’s when I started to look at the online space.

This week, we talk with Canadian business owner Joanna Wiebe -- the founder of Airstory and Copy Hackers -- about the view from up north. Joanna shares her insight on how Trump followed the “conversion copy” playbook exactly and why it was effective. We discuss the ongoing and constant circus, some perspective on Trudeau, speaking up and affecting change. And, we take on that important issues of talking politics – in our personal and professional lives – during these weird and unsettling times.

Today I’m talking to Joanna Wiebe, Co-Founder and Head of Growth for Airstory.co and the co-founder of CopyHackers.com. She is a master conversion copywriter who has worked with companies like Wistia, Buffer, Crazy Egg, Shopify, InVision and many more. If you’ve ever struggled to write copy for your landing page, Joanna is here to help you start writing and make sure people care about what you write. Listen in for a detailed step-by-step guide to better customer research, more authentic writing and increased conversions for your business. *** Tap on this link to access show notes+transcripts, join our private community of mavericks, or sign up to the newsletter: EveryoneHatesMarketers.com/links

Copywriter and calligrapher Ashlyn Carter joins Kira and Rob for the In 68th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and wow, does she deliver. In just a couple of years, she's built a six-figure business that is growing like crazy. In this interview, she shares: •  how she went from agency consultant to PR publicist to freelance writer •  what she learned from working with companies like Delta Airlines and Chick-Fil-A •  the difference between working with corporate brands and personal brands •  her struggle to do everything right, the repercussions, and how it led to the work she does today •  the process she used to break away from the negative behaviors that tied her down •  what happened when she chose a niche and had to fire some of her clients •  how she had to adapt new processes as a business owner (as opposed to being a freelancer) •  when she knew it was time to create a digital product •  the questions she asks to keep her team focused on getting things done •  how she organizes her time to get more done •  her onboarding “magazine” that sets boundaries and outlines processes And as we often do, we also asked about a couple of her non-copywriting hobbies. She sold us why she does calligraphy in addition to working as a copywriter, and the lessons she learned from dancing that have made her a better copywriter. To hear Ashlyn tell it, click the play button below. Or scroll down to read the transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Toggl PowerSheets Strengths Finder Rest by Alex Pang Jenna Kutcher James Wedmore Todd Herman's 90 Day Year HoneyBook Amy Porterfield Anne Lamott Chuck Close Malcolm Gladwell AshlynWrites.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join us episode 68 as we chat with copywriter Ashlyn Carter about what she learned managing crisis communications for brands like Delta and Chick-Fil-A, how choosing a niche has affected her business, the process she used to break her own negative behaviors, and how dancing has made her a better copywriter. Rob: Ashlyn, welcome! Ashlyn: Thank you so much! So excited to get to talk to y’all today. Rob: We’re excited to have you! Kira: I know, I know! All right, so, Ashlyn, I think a good place to start is with your story, of course, and how you ended up getting into copywriting! Ashlyn: Yes, so it turns out that if you chronologically file magazines under your bed growing up, you’re a shoe-in for a journalism major, so I went into college, like, no doubt what I wanted to be. I wanted to work in magazines. I wanted to do editorial stuff. So I was a print major in the journalism school in 2009, which, I’m sure all of us who work in this industry—that was a tough year for publications. So I promptly went back from my senior year, switched to the publications track, and knew that that’s what I wanted to do. Right out of college, I worked as a traveling consultant for a women’s organization. I worked the ultimate dream of working in—I grew up in Alabama so the big city of Atlanta is where I wanted to be—I wanted to work an agency life in Atlanta, so I did that! And was in agency for about four years all together and worked as a publicist as well for a chef and his slew of restaurants and then I moved on to working on my own! There are a lot of ups and downs and valleys but that, in a nutshell, is what happened.

As I talk with fellow copywriters about what’s happening in the business, one theme keeps coming up: How increasingly difficult it’s becoming to write persuasive copy. That’s long been an issue in the ultra-competitive direct response industries of financial newsletters, natural health and business opportunity. But it’s also becoming a big challenge in other less aggressive settings—even in B2B content marketing. To get some insights and answers on this topic, I recently turned to one of the top conversion copywriters in the business, Joanna Wiebe. Joanna is the founder of Copy Hackers and of Airstory, a new content creation platform for marketing teams and educators. You don’t have to be a direct response copywriter to get value from this episode. If you write any kind of persuasive content, I think you’ll find some great insights and ideas here.

For the 64th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob bring copywriter Paige Poutiainen into the studio to talk about how she’s grown her business from Upwork to online funnel specialist. It’s a great conversation in which, Paige talks about: •  becoming a copywriter because she doesn’t speak Finnish well •  how she has succeeded working with clients found on Upwork •  why she shifted from content to conversion copy to funnel strategist •  what she’s doing to avoid funnel fatigue for her clients •  why creating a funnel is a bit like dating •  her basic process for creating a funnel for her clients •  what she does to make sure her funnels are set up to succeed from the beginning •  what had made the biggest difference in her business this year •   why she is using video more and more in her business And as we often do, we asked Paige what she thinks other copywriters are missing out on (her answer covers stuff like owning a niche). Plus we asked what she’s learned living in Finland for the past five years (while working with clients in the USA). It’s a great way to kick off your new year. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: The Copywriter Accelerator The Copywriter Think Tank Danny Marguiles Freelance to Win Joanna Wiebe Hillary Wiess Funnel Fatigue article The Copywriter Club newsletter No BS Pricing Strategy by Dan Kennedy TheImpactCopywriter.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 64, as we chat with copywriter and funnel specialist Paige Poutiainen about finding success on Upwork, building effective marketing funnels using video to build a reputation, and what she’s done to accelerate her business over the past year. Kira: Paige, welcome! Paige: Hi, thanks for having me. Rob: Hey Paige! Kira: We’re so excited to have you! So we met Paige in the first beta round of our Accelerator program and now you’re in the think tank, so we get extra, extra time to get to know you, and also to see how you’ve grown your business over the last year. I think a good place is just with your story and how did you end up as a copywriter? Paige: Yeah, that’s a good question! I think I was writing copy or content you know, starting at age twelve. I started blogging. That’s what I would do—I was a nerdy child. And you know, other kids are outside playing or doing whatever and I was upstairs, like, blogging about boys that I liked and all this kind of stuff teenagers go through. And I’ve had several blogs over the years, just kind of as a hobbyist kind of thing. And then, when I was in grad school, I got a job as a content marketer, but my official title was CMO. I was NOT qualified to be a CMO, but you know how startups do those fancy titles and stuff. So I was doing like, blogs, general content there, and I actually had to do like landing pages and opt-in pages, so that’s where I first dipped my toes in copywriting. Then, you know, for several reasons, I didn’t enjoy that kind of working setup, it didn’t work for me, and because I was living in Finland—and I do not speak Finnish well—it is sometimes difficult to get a job, so that pressure to find work kind of pushed me into the freelancing. I had heard of Upwork, I had done some research, and you know, it was the meeting points—or, that was the catalyst.

For the 62nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob brought former screenwriter, movie producer and copywriter Jamie Jensen into the studio to talk all about her copy business. She shares the good and the bad and why she decided to shut down her agency just as it was really taking off. We also talked about: •  how her dad unknowingly put her on the path to copywriting as a kid •  why she left Hollywood to make her own movie, then jumped to copywriting •  what she did early on to attract clients to her business (her no-strategy strategy) •  how she developed a unique brand voice (Hollywood helped) •  the systems and processes she used to connect with her customers •  the place honesty and enthusiasm plays in attracting clients to her •  why she decided to grow a micro-agency instead of staying a sole proprietor •  the challenges the come with running an agency—she shares the dark side We also asked Jamie about what she’s doing today, the course she just created and launched, and her one word tip for course creators. Lots of laughter in this one and some painful lessons. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Hannah Has a Ho Phase Uncage Your Business Heather Dominick Story School Your Hot Copy Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 62 as we chat with copywriter, filmmaker, and storyteller Jamie Jensen, about going from Hollywood to hot copy, the importance of storytelling when it comes to writing copy with personality, working with a team of writers, the ins and outs of creating courses, and how making a movie made her a better copywriter. Kira: Jamie, welcome! Jamie: Thank you! Thank you so much for having me! Rob: It’s great to have you, yes! Kira: Yeah! You were on our list early on as someone that we wanted on the show and it’s nice to have a fellow New Yorker on the show, as well! So a great place to start is, you know, you went from Hollywood to hot copy. So we want to know, how did you even get into copywriting? Jamie: Sure! Well, what’s interesting is for me, for my story, is that my dad was an entrepreneur, so I actually grew up with a lot of like, copywriting things around me already, meaning, not just like, from the sales perspective of reading books about sales and marketing and all of that stuff, like, they were always around the house because my dad was marketing his own business, and doing things like buying domain names up and coming up with catchy things that he wanted to trademark for his business. And even like, direct mail was still a big thing then, so I would even help him like, review mailers that he was sending out to his physical mailing list, because that was a thing, you know? And so I actually grew up exposed to a lot of that to begin with, and the way that I made the transition from Hollywood to hot copy was I had made a film. So you know, I left Hollywood, I’d kind of had enough, came back to New York City where I’m from, and my producing partner and I decided at the time that we were going to just make our own film. So I had already written the script and she had been working on it as a producer and we decided like, you know what? Forget guys, by the way, because at this point we had both had a lot of negative experiences with men in the entertainmen...

Welcome to episode 61 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Today Kira Hug and Rob Marsh talk with freelance copywriter Alaura Weaver about how she’s grown her business, often working at night to get things done. During our discussion, we covered: •  how she went from acting to sales to copywriting •  how theater and acting has made her a better copywriter •  what she did early on to get her first clients and her advice to new copywriters •  how she saw herself as a business owner, not a freelancer •  her thoughts about seeing customers as humans, not consumers and living your message •  how copywriters can live their own message and values •  how to develop buyer personas and why you should use them •  how she gets to know the customers she is profiling •  the trap of writing for everybody and reaching nobody •  how she sells her clients on creating Avatars as part of her projects Plus we also asked Alaura about how often you should create new customer profile, what she’s doing to share how you can define your own customer personas and how she juggles family, course creation, and business and makes it all work. Want this one in your ear buds? Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Textbroker Neil Patel Joanna Wiebe The storytelling post on CH Hillary’s coaching post Xtensio Alaura’s website @wordweaverfree Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 61 as we chat with freelance copywriter and storyteller, Alaura Weaver, about how she became a copywriter, creating customer personas, and her course about them, juggling work and family, and various other products, and making business personal. Welcome Alaura. Rob: Welcome Alaura! Alaura: Hi! Thank you! Kira: Great to have you here, so I think a great place to start is with your story. As a storyteller, can you tell us your story? Alaura: So, it’s really ironic is that my verbal, like, speaking storytelling skills are a little bit off, which is why I like writing. But, I’ll tell you how I started. I’ve actually started in the theater. I was a child actress and, that’s what I thought I was going to do my entire life. I was on the stage, I literally grew up on the stage. Kira: Wow. Alaura: And I went to the Baltimore School for the Arts for high school. I majored in theater in undergrad and got my graduate degree in acting. So, it was kind of like, that was my path; I was going to be a professional actress. I focused on the creation of original works, so I did have that writing element in there. But, life is a lot harder—laugh—than your dreams, right? You know, the reality is most actors are unemployed for the majority of their careers, and I had to find a way to pay back those student loans and pay bills and be an adult. And so I got into sales. I got into business-to-business sales. One of my first jobs was actually on inside sales for a start-up, and I liked that environment a lot, of that small team, that kind of feisty, scrappy team, building and growing that business, and it felt like a good place to be. But then I got an offer to start selling, advertising for the Yellow Book.—Laughs—If you remember...do you remember the Yellow Book? Rob: Let your fingers do the walking, absolutely. Alaura: So you can guess how,

Copy is your online sales person. Would you hire a sloppy sales person in your physical store? No. Then why would you online? In this episode, Joanna Wiebe, the co-founder of Copy Hackers and Airstory, shares great insights on creating copy that actually converts - now lets get that sloppy salesperson into gear!

Joanna Wiebe tells the story of how, through years of writing high-converting copy for companies like Buffer, Wistia, Invision, and Shopify, she was inspired to launch software to help everyone that writes for a living create better work.

For the 60th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob opted not to invite a guest on the show and instead take your questions and give our off-the-cuff, no-preparation answers. We don’t claim to have all the answers, but we did our best with what we have. We talked about: •  where we got our first clients (and where we get some of our clients today) •  why relationships are so critical especially for freelancers who never leave the house •  how copywriting has changed since we both got started and what that means to you •  what we expected The Copywriter Club to become when we first started out •  how we keep all the plates spinning (Rob has dropped a couple) •  what comes first the club or clients (don’t let our clients see this) Plus we also talked about where we find the most satisfaction in our work and our thoughts on LinkedIn and Medium and which one is best for sharing your work. We don’t have a guest to carry us on this one, but to hear everything we shared, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Hillary Weiss Laura Belgray The 50th episode Ry Schwartz The Copywriter Accelerator Joanna Wiebe Michal Eisikowitz Luke Traser Momo Price Serial CrimeTown Tim Ferriss Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits. Then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 60 as we answer your questions about copywriting, fitting it all in, choosing a niche, our processes and what we find most rewarding in our businesses. Hey, Kira. Kira: Hey, Rob. How’s it going? Rob: It is going awesome. Mostly awesome, how about yourself? Kira: Is it really awesome, Rob? Is it really? You just told me you woke up at 5 a.m. to workout and so… Rob: That’s correct. Kira: You’re feeling good? Rob: I am feeling good. I was up a little late doing client work where I think we’re going to talk about that here in a second when we ask, answer a couple of questions and you were doing the same. Kira: Yeah, we were both emailing each other at midnight while working in client work so that’s how I spin, but yeah. Rob: Exactly. Kira: I’m excited to answer some questions. For this special 60th episode, we asked the club members in the Facebook Group, what questions you have for us and we have a nice range of questions we can tackle here, but I feel like we should say that normally, we like to prep. We are preppers and think through our responses and even type them out. Today, we are not doing that. We are going to wing it. Rob: That’s right. Kira: I don’t wing things well so this will be interesting. Rob: It’s all of the cuffs so it’s not sugarcoated. We’re going to tell you the truth, but it may not be quite as well thought out as it might have been otherwise so. Kira: Right, this will not be poetic today. Okay, so why don’t we jump into the first question. Rob, you can choose. Rob: Yeah, so I’m actually going to choose Heath asked a couple questions and I think these area good questions that a lot of people in the club are thinking about. This is the first one. How did you get your first clients when you’re starting out? Kira: Okay, well, first I want to say shout out to Heath. I love Heath. He always makes me smile in the group. My first few clients, I was at Ace working at a startup, actionablebooks.

For the 58th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira Hug and Rob Marsh sit down to talk with financial copywriter, Jake Hoffberg about all kinds of things related to writing copy in the financial niche, including: •  his first exposure to direct response and how he got into internet marketing •  how he was rejected by every division of Agora but one before he landed his first project •  the terrible cold email pitch template he used (we share it, don’t use it) •  his contrarian “I want to make money” path to copywriting •  the kinds of projects he willingly took on just to get started •  how he leveraged his new relationships into more jobs and more clients •  the real value that copywriters provide their clients (it’s not writing copy) •  the process for pitching new ideas and getting the next project, and •  how to double your income in 6 months Plus we also asked for his thoughts about getting royalties, which clients will pay them, and how to structure royalties the right way and he shared the advice he give other writers about how to get into financial copywriting... hint: don’t think you should start at the top. All that and more is in this money-packed episode (not literally). To hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Eban Pagan Jeff Walker Agora Financial Motley Fool Dent Research Sale of a Lifetime Freelance Financial Copywriter Group JakeHoffberg.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 58, as we chat with financial copywriter Jake Hoffberg about his path to becoming a copywriter and choosing the financial niche, writing long-form sales pages and VSLs, what a new writer should do today to break into financial copywriting, and advertising to the affluent. -- Rob: Welcome, Jake! Jake: Thank you for having me! Kira: Yeah, it’s great to have you here. Rob: We’re excited to learn a little bit more about you and your niche and how it all came about, which is probably a good place to start. Let’s talk about your story and how you became a copywriter. Jake: Sure. So, I guess the story probably actually starts in 2008... 2009... and I had a copy of Eban Pagan’s Get Altitude Training—I forget how I got it, but I did—and that was really my first exposure to direct response. This whole world of people that were making money on the internet and running these virtual businesses and putting boards together and getting paid and I just—I thought that was fascinating. I was in direct sales at the time and I was knocking on doors and doing it the hard way and man, it was just so awesome sounding. So I probably spent the next five, six, seven years on and off trying to get into internet marketing and figure out how to run an info-product business and kinda went down that rabbit hole for a long time and tried a lot of things that did not work over the years. This is all while I was doing sales, and switched sales jobs a couple times, and think it was two years ago—something like that—it was July of 2015—I was running a consulting business and I had that moment that everyone has at some point in their life where they’re just like, F it! I’m done with this! I’m tired of this crap! And I had a not so friendly conversation with my boss,

In the 57th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Heather Dominick who coined the term, highly sensitive entrepreneur—a name for business owners who are more sensitive to the demands of start-up and freelance work. During our conversation, we asked her: •  what a “highly sensitive entrepreneur is” and whether it’s a weakness we need to overcome •  how to know if you were born highly sensitive—20% of us are •  whether there’s something wrong with Rob who is highly insensitive •  what being highly sensitive means (and the superpowers HSEs have) •  a few questions you can ask yourself to find out if you’re an HSE •  how to work (or live) with someone who is highly sensitive •  how to approach work (and life) as a highly sensitive entrepreneur •  the importance of processes and systems to support your work as a HSE, and •  how to network as an HSE. We also asked Heather about the similarities between HSEs and introverts (they’re not the same thing) and how her business has changed since she started approaching things as an HSE. This discussion is a little different from our typical episode but shines a light on a personality type that many copywriters deal with regularly. To listen, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ali Brown’s Glambition Radio Quiet by Susan Cane HSE Quiz Heather’s Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 57, as we chat with business coach and founder of the highly sensitive entrepreneur movement, Heather Dominick, about how personality traits affect business success, what it means to be highly sensitive, how to deal with the sensitive people in our lives, and what this all means for copywriters. Kira: Heather, welcome! Rob: Welcome Heather. Heather: Thank you so much. So happy to be here. So happy to be here with both of you! Kira: Well, when I first heard of you, it was on Ali Brown’s Glambition Radio interview with you. I was on vacation and somehow randomly stumbled upon that particular interview and I remember being like, oh my goodness! This is me! I had no idea that this was a thing and it was kind of like finding out from Susan Cane that I was an introvert a couple of years back when I was like, oh this makes sense! This all makes sense! And then I forced my husband to listen to the interview again so that he would understand why I am the way I am and so ever since then, I knew that we needed you on this show to really help communicate what this is all about to highly sensitive copywriters and copywriters that maybe aren’t as highly sensitive as well. Heather: Fantastic! I love that so much. Did your husband listen to the interview that I did with Ali Brown? Did that help? Kira: It did help. I feel like this is already a couple of months ago, I feel like it’s something that maybe we need to revisit every once in awhile just to be like okay, remember why - this is why I’m doing this this way? So it doesn’t fade away. And I think a great place to start is with your story - just, how you discovered that you’re a highly sensitive person and entrepreneur? Heather: Sure! Absolutely. I’m so happy to share. Well, I would say first that I’m in my 14th year of being self-employed and in the first half of my self-employment career,

Personal branding expert and talented designer, Sarah Ancalmo Ashman is the guest for the 56th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. She shared with Kira and Rob (and you) how she became a brand expert—she started out as an ad agency designer working with personalities like Madonna, Jimmy Fallon and the rock group, RadioHead. In the podcast she talks about: •  how she developed her unique design style and why she chose branding as her discipline •  the first steps she took when she started her own agency •  what branding is and why it is so important to have a strong brand •  some of the more important elements that make up your brand •  how to identify what make you (and your brand) unique •  what you need to know or work on before you engage a designer •  why copywriters shouldn’t shape their brand around their clients •  her contrarian advice on which formulas you should use for your brand •  how to create a brand for yourself when you don’t have the budget to work with a designer (hint: don’t use fiverr) Rob and Kira also ask Sarah about the things that smart copywriters are starting to do with their brands, where copywriters who want to work in branding can get started and the the text books she recommends you should read if you want to learn branding. To hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Sarah Ashman, Public Persona Sarah’s Pinterest MirrorBrand B School Bluffworks Lacy Boggs Ash Ambirge Building a Story Brand The Brand Gap Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 56, as we chat with branding expert and designer Sarah Ancalmo Ashman about working with entrepreneurs and creatives to create jaw-dropping brands, developing a brand strategy, how copywriters should approach their own brand development, and whether having a nice logo is enough. Kira: Hi Sarah! Rob: Hey Sarah. Sarah: Hello, thanks for having me! Kira: Thanks for being here. I think - I have such a big crush on you because you’ve worked with me on my website and my brand and that’s been one of the best investments I’ve made in my business so I’m glad we can finally have you on the show you can share your knowledge and expertise with everyone at large. I think a great place to start though, is with your story! How did you end up running your creative studio? Sarah: As always, a meandering path, right? My background is actually in, you know, big brand advertising and you know, design studios in New York. And I worked doing that for about ten years and realized that the projects that resonated with me actually the most, were the ones that involved an individual. Clients that were sort of an individual that we were centering a brand around. I found that there were a lot of opportunities to bring out stories and you know, just really focus on their personality and what differentiates them as an individual. And so what I ended up doing was starting to kind of put my feelers out... and started to work with individuals, primarily entrepreneurs, who were either starting their business or wanting to uplevel, and applying some of the same techniques that I used to develop brands for the Fortune 500 for these private clients. And that ended up being viable enough for me to be able to kind of jump ship from the corp...

Visit EOFire.com for complete show notes of every Podcast episode. The original conversion copywriter, Joanna is the Founder of CopyHackers and Airstory. She's optimized copy for Wistia, Buffer, Crazy Egg, Neil Patel, Shopify, Rainmaker, and countless others.

Paid search expert (and copywriter club member) Amy Hebdon joins Kira and Rob for the 55th episode of the podcast to talk about search marketing, the tools and skills you need to do it right, best practices for testing and messaging, and whether copywriters can drive quality leads for their own businesses with paid search. Here’s what we cover: •  how Amy went from inexperienced copywriter to web designer to paid search consultant •  what paid search is and the various places you can participate in it •  why copywriters need to know about paid search, keywords, ads and landing pages •  how writing for search is different from typical ad writing •  when you should write for Google and when you should write for people (you can do both) •  why you should work backwards from your landing page before writing your ads •  why traffic and clicks are a terrible metric in paid search •  best practices for testing ads so you get better insights, and •  the tools Amy uses to monitor her accounts and ads We also talked about what copywriters can do to attract clients who understand search (and want to work with a paid search specialist), how copywriters might use paid search to drive traffic to their own sites, and where the opportunities are for paid search today. Don’t miss Amy’s straight-forward perspective on the future of paid search and why there needs to be more collaboration than ever in this area in 2018. To hear hear it all, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Amy Hebdon, Paid Search Magic Find Amy on Twitter AdWords Adsense Joanna Wiebe Unbounce Leadpages Supermetrics DuckDuckGo Indeed Upwork Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 55 as we talk with paid search expert Amy Hebdon about search marketing, the tools and skills you need to do it right, best practices for testing and messaging, and whether copywriters can drive quality leads for their own businesses with paid search. Kira: Amy, welcome. Amy: Hi! Good to be on here. Kira: Yeah, thanks for hanging out with us today. I think a great place for us to start is with your story and how you got into paid search. Amy: Sure! So, I am one of those people who always wanted to work in advertising. It’s been my dream career, basically, since I was seven, and I majored in marketing communications in school and I spent the next several years temping, trying to find jobs. At the time, I was living in the Bay area and it was right around the time of the dot com bust, so I wasn’t able to find anyone who wanted to hire a brand new copywriter with no experience. I ended up a few years later... I got a job in New York as a web designer, so I was going to work every day basically hoping that wasn’t the day that I got fired because really, my web design skills were not that great. I was not that good at coding and I had all these design challenges that I had no idea how to solve. Looking back, I don’t think they actually would’ve fired me, like I think it was fine for what their clients needed, but it was really stressful for me to not know what I was doing and not really know how to do a good job with that. Working in this little design agency... it was a really cramped office space and the woman who sat behind me - there was no space between o...

Ryan Johnson, Head Copywriter at IWT (short for I Will Teach, Ramit Sethi’s company) steps up to the microphone with Kira and Rob for the 53rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. This interview covers a lot of ground, including: •  how after a grueling interview in his car, Ryan failed to get a job with IWT only to get hired a few months later (never give up) •  how to get inside the head of your client so you can speak with his or her voice •  his process for laying out all the moving pieces of a launch, and •  how he maps emotions to his launch plans so customers can’t wait to respond •  the 7 deadly email funnel sins •  two reasons to use long-form sales pages •  the “leap stacking” technique he uses to help his writers uplevel their skill (and what doesn’t work when trying to improve) Plus Ryan shares the “copy levers” that Gary Bencivenga used to get better at his craft, how he avoids writer’s block, and the one thing he would do if he had to start his career all over. Lots of good stuff packed into this episode. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ramit Sethi The Briefcase Technique Jay Abraham IWT AIDA Gary Bencivenga Abbey Woodcock Justin Blackman The Headline Project Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, and then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 53 as we chat with in house copywriter, Ryan Johnson, about he became a copywriter and landed a job writing for Ramit Sethi, how he tackles a massive launch, capturing the voice of your client, and how long it takes him to write a 50 plus page sales letter. Ryan, welcome. Rob: Yes, welcome Ryan. Ryan: Thank you for having me. Glad to be here. Kira: Yeah, it’s great to have your here, and I think a great place to start is just with your story of how did you end up becoming a copywriter? Ryan: It was kind of a circular process to copywriting. I didn’t even know what copywriting was at the very beginning. My original interests were in film and creative writing, which led me into a delightful career waiting tables. After a few years of that, my first real job was in instructional design, and I was editing textbooks, and building training programs. I actually ended up designing an associates degree in business. I packaged and edited textbooks on business, and economics, and entrepreneurship before I realized that doing that was with no experience was totally crazy. But it was a good baseline. But while I was doing this, I can still remember. I was in the middle of editing this 500 page textbook on economics, which is about as exciting as it sounds, and my wife was working as a creative copywriter, and she was getting paid much, much more than me to edit this glossy one page ad. It looked like so much fun and so much easier than what I was doing. I’m like, “I’m doing something wrong, ‘cause there’s clearly a cap on where I am, and there’s no clap over here.” So shortly after I figured out how I could transition into marketing, into copywriting. It’s been a race every since. Rob: You’re working as an in house copywriter, but what does that look like today? What is the day to day ... How do you spend your time? What are you working on? Those kinds of things. Ryan: Yeah, so with Ramit at IWT / Growth Lab, I am the head of the sales team and the editorial tea...

When we launched The Copywriter Club Podcast, we made a list of copywriters we wanted to interview and the guest for episode 51, David Garfinkel, was at the top. Known as the World's Greatest Copywriting Coach, David is a world-class copywriter who regularly consults with clients like Agora Financial and GKIC along with several high-level copywriters to help improve the performance of their copy. During our interview, David talked about: •  how he got his start as a copywriter •  a “this will only work for me” method for finding your first project •  the story behind his $40 million dollar sales letter •  the mistakes he made as he was just starting his business •  how he made the shift to coaching and what he does as a coach •  the three things to look for in a copy coach •  how to overcome objections with your copy •  what mistakes he sees over and over again that you will want to avoid •  the importance of “relevant credentials” when making any sale •  when you should start coaching other writers •  the two or three things to go from good to great as a writer Plus David talked about what his business looks like today and he shared details about the breakout hit song he wrote for the urology department at the University of California’s Centennial celebration. (This is stuff he hasn't even shared on his own podcast.) To hear it, you need to click the play button below, or scroll down to read a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory McGraw Hill World News Gary Halbert’s Newsletter Aaron Sorkin Barbara (Bloch) Stanny Jay Conrad Levinson Jim Camp KOLBE Copy Chief Breakthrough Copywriting Garfinkelcoaching.com Kevin Rogers Scientific Advertising The Billion Dollar Copywriter Peak by Anders Erickson Agora Financial Fast, Effective Copy Homespun.com David’s Facebook Page The Copywriters Podcast Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 52 as we chat with the man who has been called the world’s greatest copywriting coach, David Garfinkel, about the lessons he’s learned coaching and working with so many copywriters, what it takes to be truly great as a copywriter, how his life away from copywriting makes him a better writer, and how to do an effective copy critique. Kira: David, welcome. David: Thank you. I’m glad to be here. Rob: Yeah, we’re excited to have you. Kira: It’s an honor to have you. Yeah, this is the highlight of my day. David: I know I’ve been looking forward to this for a while now. Kira: I feel like every time I think of you, David, I think of the beach because I listen to episode 13, Why Customers Buy, while I was running on the beach on vacation last month. I’m just happy anytime I hear your voice because it takes me back. David: Yeah. I think you mentioned that in an email to me. Which beach? Because I’m about six blocks from the Pacific Beach in San Francisco. Kira: Oh, this was Myrtle Beach. David: Oh. Yeah, I went there when I was in high school. I grew up in Maryland. We went there in the spring break or something. It was a very nice beach. Kira: Yeah, it was great. Rob: A great place to do some running, some copywriting learning. Kira: Exactly, yeah. David: Well, everyone has their own use for the beach. I think that’s a good one, frankly. Rob: Yeah, exactly. David,

As the Founder of Copy Hackers and Airstory, Joanna gets real about her biggest struggles as a leader. Joanna Wiebe is the founder of Copy Hackers – an acclaimed site + service that helps businesses write better. She also most recently co-founded Airstory. I'm a big fan of her work. In this interview, she opens up about what she… Read the full article

Direct response copywriter and video sales letter expert, Valentina Volcinschi, is in the house for episode 51 of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira and Rob ask her about how she became a direct response copywriter and how she developed her skills—she’s written a ton of successful promotions including one that pulled in $7 million in 5 months and saved a company that was headed toward bankruptcy. She also talks about... •  how musician Jack White landed her a job in direct response •  the “secret” 1000-page book that helped launch her career •  how she injects emotion into her copy •  her “puzzle structure” for sales pages •  how to get started working in the survival niche •  the biggest differences between sales pages and VSLs •  the EPW writing process that you probably use but don’t know it •  how she researches for her assignments Plus Valentina goes deep on how feeling your customer’s pain can make all the difference in a sales message and how she entertains with her copy (she looks for wacky characters). We also asked her what she charges for sales pages, emails and VSLS and her advice for new direct response copywriters. As usual, lots of good ideas and advice.  Click the play button below to listen, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Jack White Madonna The Ultimate Desktop Copy Coach (no longer available) Ry Schwartz Daniel Sanchez Copy School Ben Settle Valentina’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 51 as we chat with copywriter Valentina Volcinschi about entertaining your customers with your copy, writing with emotion, video sales letters, and what it takes to break through in hypercompetitive markets like survival, health, and sass. Rob: Hey, Kira. Hey, Valentina. Valentina: Hi, guys. How you doing? Kira: Welcome. Thanks for joining us. Valentina: Thank you for inviting me. Kira: A good place to start, Valentina, is just with your story, how you ended up as a direct response copywriter working on VSLs and even in the survival market. How did you get there? Valentina: Well, it’s quite a funny story because I actually owe my debut in direct response copywriting to Jack White from The White Stripes and The Dead Weather. Rob: Okay. This sounds like a good story. Valentina: Yeah, kind of. I started as an agency copywriter. I worked at a local agency for a couple of years, but then I had to switch cities. I moved to another city, so I had to look for a job. I found an internship as a direct response copywriter and I was like, “What is that? I had never heard about that before.” I read about it. I found it very interesting and I thought that is a very good opportunity to learn something new. What I did was apply to that copywriting internship. What I didn’t know was that the person in charge of the applications was the secretary of the company. What she did was check every single person who applied on Facebook to see if they have the same taste in music as her because she had no girls on the team. There are only guys and no one there to, I don’t know, share a common interest with her. She looked at my Facebook page and she saw that I had liked Jack White’s page. She was like, “This girl, I want this girl on my team.” Yes. She went to her boss and she oversold me on the whole thing.

For our 50th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, we’re doing things a little differently. Actually, quite a bit differently. We’ve flipped the microphone and invited Ry Schwartz back for another visit—but this time to ask questions of copywriters Kira Hug and Rob Marsh (your humble hosts for all the other episodes). Ry does his best to get the goods from us. In the process we cover... •  Rob’s advice on how to have a happy marriage (obviously he hasn’t had to give it a lot of thought) •  how copywriting applies to marriage •  the nicest thing anyone has ever said to Kira •  what Rob and Kira would look for if they were hiring a “copy cub” •  what they do to learn new things every day •  the music they listen to (or don’t) when they write—you may be surprised •  what Kira and Rob would do right now if they had to rebuild their businesses from scratch •  what they’ve learned as they created a coaching program •  what they would do if they couldn’t be copywriters any more Plus what they think is the most important thing for copywriters to do today, Ry’s better-than-expected-but-still-bad Irish accent, a few music clips and more. If you like 80s hip hop, Disney mermaids and great copywriting advice, you’ll want to click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Narcos Chuck Taylors James Wedmore The Voice Hillary Weiss It’s Tricky (Run DMC) I Love You (Climax Blue’s Band) The Things You Never Remember (Dave Brubeck ) Genie in a Bottle (Christina Aguilera) Hips Don’t Lie (Shakira) Ry’s announcement episode Rob’s book The Copywriter Think Tank Tanya Geisler on the Imposter Complex The Copywriter Accelerator Rick Steeves Under Pressure (David Bowie and Queen) The Little Mermaid Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Ry: Hi, all right. I’m interviewing you guys today, that’s fun. Kira: I’m a little nervous. Ry: A little nervous? I have some good questions here, I watched Narcos all weekend, so I have a lot of drug-related questions. Kira: Oh, my god. Ry: Yeah, it’s just where my brain is going. This almost blends perfectly well with my first question, but we haven’t done the actual intro yet. I’m going to do it in a British accent. What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then stealing an idea or two to inspire your own work, that’s what I get to do today at The Copywriter Club Podcast. I also get to put on a terrible Irish accent and I’m doing it because we are flipping the microphone, that’s an awkward thing to say; but we’re turning the microphone on the other side of the virtual table. I get to ask Rob and Kira the awkward questions about life, business, copywriting, and all the amazing things in between. Thanks for letting me do this and thanks for being on your own show, guys. Rob: Yeah, you haven’t even told us who you are yet. Kira: We’re just supposed to know after that brilliant accent. Ry: I’m a ghost, I think we should only reveal it at the end, to see if people could guess who this has been the entire team. Kira: That’s a good taste. Ry: Hint, it is Rob’s younger self coming back. Rob: Much better looking, much smarter, younger self. Yes. Ry: Yes, who initially turned older Rob on to wearing Chuck Taylors, so it’s is not old Rob, yet. Yes, thanks for being here. That’s an awkward transition. I don’t know how you guys do segues so much better than I just did. But, we will start off by talking about Kira’s wedding anniversary because that is currently happening. So,

For the 49th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Sean D'Souza is here to talk about about the psychological tactics that get people to respond to your sales message. Kira and Rob go deep with Sean asking about how he started his business and what he wants from it today. Sean talks about: •  how he got into copywriting, then out, then back in. •  how a short presentation inspired by Jay Abraham inspired The Brain Audit •  the seven “red bags” of The Brain Audit and how they work together •  the questions he asks when creating a sales page •  the “x-ray vision” problem that books and courses suffer from •  why teaching is the best kind of selling •  how to establish yourself as an expert •  what kind of testimonials you should have on your sales pages (would you believe they should be 1500 words?) • and more... Perhaps most importantly for overworked copywriters, we asked Sean how he manages to take three months of vacation every year and how his morning routine helps him maintain his energy and effectiveness. These are ideas we need to try. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Leo Burnett Psychotactics Good to Great by Jim Collins Jay Abraham The Brain Audit 5000 BC Superman Article Writing Course Six questions for testimonials Mixergy interview Michael Phelps Bob Bowman The Three Month Vacation Podcast Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hangout with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 49 as we chat with author, speaker, cartoonist, and copywriter Sean D’Souza about psychological triggers that get customers to say yes, creating brand fanatics, how to become an expert in any field, and why he takes so much time off to recharge. Welcome, Sean. Thanks for joining us. Rob: Hey, Sean. Sean: It’s a pleasure to speak to both of you. Kira: Well, we’ve love to start with your story. How did you end up as a copywriter and a business owner? Sean: I always wanted to be a copywriter. When I was in university, that’s what I wanted to do. I had this goal, when I was going to be 30, I was going to be in this agency. I was going to be creative director of that agency. So it was very clear to me, which is why in university when I was studying accounting and stuff, my grades started to go down for the first time in my life. As soon as I left university, I went to Leo Burnett, which is the … I lived in Mumbai, India, and the kind of branch of Leo Burnett that was there. I went and spoke to the creative director, and she said, “You know you’re just a cartoonist. You’re not a copywriter.” I said, “Yes, I know that, but here’s what I’ll do. I’ll work with you a month and at the end of the month, you decide whether you want me to stay, and then you pay me. Or you know if I don’t like you after a month, then I’ll leave.” So it was pretty brash, but they took me on and that was the start of working with several advertising agencies. We’re going back now to 1995, I think, so it’s a long time ago. So I worked in a couple of agencies, and then, at some point, I started thinking, “Well, this is not what I want to do,” and I went back to cartooning. At that point, I was drawing cartoons for these magazines, but also for these organizations. What I found was their copy was really bad, and that my cartoons were getting kind of mutilated or defaced or ...

Copywriter Marcella Allison is the only person who has “cubbed” for the biggest names in copywriting including Parris Lampropolous, Clayton Makepeace, David Deutch and Mark Ford. And she’s learned a lot along the way. Marcella stopped by our virtual studio to chat with Rob and Kira about: •  how she got started as a copywriter (twice) •  whether copywriters can develop a talent for writing about complex things •  how an unexpected kiss from Marty Edelston transformed her career •  the importance of mentorship in building your career in copywriting •  the top lessons she learned from two of her mentors •  how to effectively use the feedback you get from a mentor, and •  the lesson David Deutch accidentally taught her about ego. Plus, Marcella shares the “beginning painter” learning trick she recommends if you want to break into a copywriting niche. This episode is another good one you won’t want to miss. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Most of the people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ry Schwartz Brian Kurtz F&W Publications Schaeffer’s Investment Research Money Map Press David Deutch Parris Lampropolous Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain AWAI Agora Financial Kevin Addington Bottomline Lori Haller Marty Edelston Mark Ford Clayton Makepeace Stansbury Research Chris Alsop Advanced Bionutritionals John Carlton’s Simple Copywriting System Kevin Rogers Ask Method Product Launch Formula Early to Rise Hay House Natural Health Sherpa Titanides.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 48 as we chat with freelance copywriter Marcella Allison about how she became a copywriter working with A list mentors like Parris Lampropoulos and David Deutsch and her secret for landing a steady stream of clients without a website. Kira: Marcella, welcome. Marcella: Hi, guys. I’m going to be notorious for that now. Like everyone’s going to be like, “I can’t believe she doesn’t have her own website.” You guys are going to hear about that. Rob: You’re actually not our first guest that didn’t have a website. Marcella: Oh good. Rob: At least until they got on the podcast. Ry Schwartz is a copywriter in the internet space, didn’t have a website last year when we talked to him. He does now finally so maybe this will be the spark that gets you a website, Marcella. Kira: Or maybe you just don’t need it because you’re that good. Marcella: I don’t know about that. Kira: Marcella, I think a good place to start is we had met at our titans masterclass, Brian Kurtz’s group and you were my advocate during the hot seat session and I think you were the best. I forget if we called it an advocate. Basically, you were representing my needs and you were the best one there. So I oh you big time and I’m excited to dig more into how you got into copywriting and hear more about your experiences so far. So I think a good place to start is with just your story. How did you end getting into copywriting? Marcella: Well, one thing, I have to I’ve a big shout out to Brian Kurtz because I have to say the reason I was a good advocate was I had trial by fire at his titans event being an advocate for 30 people that day. Kira: That makes sense. Marcella: I did have a bit of practice. I did have a bit of practice. Kira: I did not know that.

Do you struggle with impostor syndrome (or more accurately impostor complex)? Then you’re going to love this episode. Tanya Geisler stops by The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk with Rob and Kira all about why we struggle to believe in ourselves and our work. It’s an evolutionary behavior that’s designed to protect us, but in today’s modern world, often keeps us from doing our best and most important work. In this interview Tanya shares: •  the background on the “discovery” of impostor complex •  how it affects both men and women •  the three primary reasons we have impostor complex •  the 12 lies of the impostor complex •  the six behavioral traits we default to when we experience impostor complex Plus Tanya shares a simple “hack” for dealing with the impostor complex when it rears its ugly head. You’re going to want to listen to this one. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Tanya’s TED Talk Pauline Clance Suzanne Imes Secret Thoughts of Successful Women Neil Gaimon Amanda Palmer Meryl Streep Maya Angelou John Lennon Brene Brown Dunning Kruger Effect Liz Gilbert Chumba Wumba OpenSource.com Mean Girls Amy Cuddy Malcom Gladwell Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 47 as we chat with leadership coach Tanya Geisler about the Imposter Syndrome and owning your authority, working with a coach, amplifying your voice, and how copywriters can deal with the comparison trap. Rob: Hey, Tanya. Hey, Kira. Kira: You’re welcome. Tanya: That’s so much for having me. Real excited to be here. Rob: We’re excited to have you here. Kira: Yeah. Tanya, you were recommended from one of our club members, Helen, who said that all the conversations in our club right now are ... Well, not all of them, but a lot of them are around feeling like an imposter, a lot of self-doubt, especially because we have a lot of new copywriters in our club. This is what you talk about day in and day out. So we’re really grateful that you’re here to kind of just address this challenge that we all are facing head on, and hopefully we can help some copywriters along the way. Tanya: May it be so. Kira: A good place to start is with your story. You know what, especially as I’ve heard you, I’ve heard your name in the past, watched your TED video, checked out your website, and you’ve stepped into your starring role, but I always wonder, when did you do that, and was it easy for you? Were you always in a starring role? Could you tell us your story? Tanya: I want to laugh. The first thing I want to do is laugh. Yeah, it was so easy. No, not much about this has been easy at all. It’s been tons of self-doubt, tons of, “What do I know? Who am I?” I talk about there are 12 lies that the Imposter Complex wants us to believe. And I believed them for probably the first ... Even if I put a name, a number on this, I worry that it’s going to trigger people, but really and truly for probably the first four to five years of my work as a leadership coach I was really coming up against the Imposter Complex, like huge. And what I started to recognize was this through line that was inhibiting me from stepping into my starring role. That wasn’t the language that I would’ve had back then, but the through line that was inhibiting me from being ...

For the 46th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, our friend, copywriter and comedian, Lianna Patch stops by to tell her story (she starts at the very beginning) about making copywriting her career. During the next 40ish minutes share also shares: •  Why she chose humor as her “hook” for copywriting clients •  her snarky answer to the dumbest question Rob has ever asked •  the enormously helpful life hack that would freak out AA •  how the rules of comedy can improve your copywriting •  how to be funny without being nasty •  what she did to land her first (and second and third) speaking engagements •  how she deals with projects that scare her And we cover a whole lot of other ground too. Like what brands are doing a good job with humorous copy and the advice she has for new copywriters. Plus, Lianna is the first guest to tell a joke on the podcast. As you’ve come to expect, this is another solid episode packed with ideas you can put to use in your business. To hear it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory The Copywriter Mastermind Boxed Wine CTA Conference Lianna’s Sustainable E-Commerce Post Aaron Orendorf Unbounce New Orleans Entrepreneur Week Conversion World DeepDyve Amy Harrison Boomerang for Gmail Snapcopy.co James Turner Foot Cardigan Jennifer Havice Wistia Dropps PunchlineCopy 5 Ways to Be Funnier in Your Copy Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failure, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 46, as we chat with freelance copywriter, Lianna Patch about the challenges of leaving an agency job to strike out on her own, getting attention at conferences, her copy optimization service called Snap, and whether there’s a place for rubber chickens and whoopee cushions in copywriting. Kira: Hi, Liana. Hi, Rob. Rob: Hey, guys. Lianna: Hey. Kira: How’s it going? Lianna: Good. Thanks for having me. Kira: You’re welcome. I think a good place to start is just finding out if you were funny as a kid, and what you wanted to be when you grew up. I feel like that’s the question I want to know. Lianna: Oh, okay. Rob: Did you always have a buzzer in your hand for handshakes? And rattlesnake eggs to hand the kids at school? Lianna: I think I was the unintentionally funny kid. I still have this expression, like I still have serious resting bitch face. My parents used to call me Little Miss Thundercloud because my resting face. I would say things that I thought were very serious and they would laugh at me, and then I would go, “Don’t laugh.” So, it’s kind of like a 180 from there. Rob: Tell us your story. Lianna: My story? Well, my dad loved my mom very much and so after they had my brother they were like, “This one’s a dud. We should probably try again,” and then I was born. Fast forwarding to now, I’ve worked in a couple agency settings, it didn’t seem to stick. I was doing my own stuff on the side throughout, and then everything kind of gelled when I took the first Copywriter Mastermind with Joanna Wiebe and I started to figure out that I should pinpoint humor, and that I should focus just on copywriting because I had noticed that I was getting way too deep into editing, especially publications editing, and I hated it so much. But, then I looked at my work schedule and it was like,

This is the 45th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast and we're joined by online business expert Zach Spuckler. As you listen, you’ll see that Zach’s energy and enthusiasm is contagious—and it quickly becomes clear why we booked him for the show. Zach shares how he started his first business at age 12, started a food blog and a few other businesses before deciding he needed to work in a business that he loved. In the interview Zach talks about: •  how he knew it was time to do “something new” in his business •  how he built his “authority” as an expert (and what you should do to build yours) •  his process to ensure he focuses on the most important things first •  his approach to discipline and showing up every day •  what his idea of great copy is (we think it’s spot on), and •  how he uses funnels in his business Zach also shares his thoughts about what beginning copywriters can do to get their businesses off the ground and the massive difference a team and systems can make for your business. To hear it all, simply click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Heart Soul Hustle Amy Porterfield James Wedmore Jeff Bezos (Amazon) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 45 as we chat with online business strategist Zach Spuckler about starting a business from scratch with no list and no prospects, how to create Facebook ads and funnels that work, the critical part discipline plays in a successful business and how we can think bigger about our businesses. Rob: Hey Zach, Kira! Kira: How’s it going? Welcome Zach. Zach: Thanks for having me. Rob: Yeah, it’s great to have you here. Zach: I am excited to be here. Kira: Zach, I think a great place to start is with your story especially for people or copywriters who don’t know who you are and what you’re all about. Zach: Absolutely. So my story interestingly enough starts about 10 years ago when I was about 12 years old. The only reason I remember that it starts when I was 12 is I made my first dollar online and I had to use my dad’s social security number because I wasn’t actually old enough to get paid yet. So really he made my first dollar online. I just cashed the check and did the work so to speak. Over the last 10 years, I started and I’ve done everything online that you can imagine in terms of dabbling. I don’t have extensive knowledge of everything, but if you can make a buck doing it online, there’s a good chance I’ve tried it. Whether it’s website flipping. I did some affiliate marketing through Amazon for a while. I used to run some niche sites. I was in a direct sales company that I still get a tiny almost not worth mentioning commission check for most weeks. I’ve done food blogging and digital courses in the marketing space and out of the marketing space. I’ll fast forward to save time a little bit, but about a year and a half, two years ago, I was running a food blog. I kind of hit this wall where I loved my food blog so much. It was starting to generate revenue. People were coming to me asking me about how to get more reach on their blog. We’ve got Pinterest pins now that are up to 10,000, 20,000 re-pins. We were getting featured in some major publications in the food blogging space. It was all really fine and dandy but I started to kin...

Copywriter Abbey Woodcock stops by The Copywriter Club Podcast studio to share how she went from being a single mom and journalist struggling to make ends meet to a highly paid copywriter specializing in complex launch sequences. And she shares a few of the hard-won lessons along the way. Things like: •  when you should absolutely NOT buy that course or coaching program •  the #1 thing she learned working for Ramit Sethi •  how she writes sales pages that make customers think she is reading their minds •  the “table stakes” principle for delivering solid copy •  what she does to make sure she’s not the smartest person in the room (even if she is) •  the surprising thought Abbey has on every single project she works on •  why and how she set up systems for her business •  how you can get to the point where you can work on large launch projects, and •  the worst things she sees going on in the copywriting world today As we were wrapping up the interview, Abbey saved the best for last, sharing the story of how Ramit Sethi was willing to test her ideas—even though his gut said she was wrong and it would cost him thousands of dollars. You’ll want to hear this, and the rest of the interview. To do it, click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Brian Kurtz Ramit Sethi Narnia The controversial article PLF InfusionSoft Thebusinessofcopy.com Onlifeandwriting.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could you hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 44, as we chat with copywriter Abbey Woodcock about her journey from struggling single mom to her place on the A-List. Creating systems for your copywriting business, finding the right voice for your clients, and what she thinks of the gurus who say you should sacrifice everything to invest in your business. Kira: Hi, Abbey. Hey, Rob. How’s it going? Abbey: Awesome. Rob: Hey, guys. Abbey: Super excited to be here. Kira: Welcome. Well, before we start recording, I think Rob mentioned that he’s been stalking you and aware of you for the past year. I really started paying attention to you when I met you in March at Bryan Kurtz’s Titans Master Class. You gave a presentation to the group about helping creatives build systems. Abbey: Right. Kira: Which was spoke to me as a creative who just sucks at systems. With your business partner, you’ve figured out how to make it work. I know we’re going to dive into that and a lot of other things, our topics today. To start, Abbey, let’s start with your story. I know you mentioned that it’s not a rags to riches story. But let’s dive into how you got into copywriting. Abbey: Yeah. Sure. I always say that my copywriting journey started in seventh grade because I wrote a 30-page letter to a boy in seventh grade to ask him to the school dance. That was my first long-form fields letter. Rob: Did it convert? Abbey: No. No, zero convert on that one. Kira: 30 pages? Abbey: Yeah, 30 pages. Kira: 30 pages were necessary, okay. Got it. Rob: That gives a little bit of context for what we’re going to ask about Ramit and what you’ve done for him, because 30 pages is short for some of the stuff he does. Abbey: Yeah. Absolutely, I was prepping many years ago for that job. Then I graduated high school, which was exciting.

Former professional basketball player and current email copywriter, Big Jason Henderson, joins Rob and Kira for the 43rd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jason shares how he went from Australian basketball star to highly paid email copywriter and in the process talks about: •  the too-easy-to-believe advice for writing great emails •  how he keeps his emails personal by writing to “one” person •  the recommended number of links that should go in every email (jk) • the tools he uses to track clicks and revenue •  his go-to writing formula for emails •  what it means to sell the click vs. sell the product •  which is the better motivator—the carrot or the stick •  why there’s no such thing as an email expert, and •  how he manages stress and overwork (when he doesn’t sleep for two days) Another eye-opening episode packed with lots of lessons, tactics and strategies you can use in your own copywriting business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory MECLabs Marketing Sherpa Email Summit Gary Halbert Caleb O Dowd Scott Haines Revolution Golf Clicky Email Response Warrior Course Clayton Makepeace Dr. Flint McGlaughlin Tepsii Arman Morin Seminar GKIC (Dan Kennedy’s events) Ryan Deiss Russel Brunson Tony Flores John Carlton’s Simple Writing System Samuel Markowitz Amit Suneja UFC Parris Lampropolous David Deutsch Shortcutcopywritingsecrets.com Tim Ferris Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copy writers and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work, that’s what Kira and I do every week and The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 43 as we chat with email copywriter big Jason Henderson about what he has learned about sending more than a billion emails, creating high performance email funnels, the things you should do with email that the experts tell you not to do, and why your value proposition is the most important element for increasing conversation. Rob: Hi Kira. Hi Jason. Jason: Hi, good to be here. Kira: Great to have you Jason. Jason: Thanks for having me. Rob: Jason, I think we really want to start with your story, but before we get into that, I got to know how big are you? Jason: I’m only about 6'11". Rob: Okay, so not that big then. Kira: Not that big. That’s nothing. Rob: Yeah, why don’t we start with your story. You’re famous for email, tell us how you got started as an email copywriter? Jason: In 1996, I was playing professional basketball in Australia, and it was really laid back so I had plenty of free time and the local universities let me go into their computer labs, so I was just going around and I started with Acl and local businesses, and I started doing email and e-commerce back then. Little did I know, that e-commerce was going to be huge, I should have stuck with it. Yeah, I just started with that and I became ... Have you heard of the about.com brand? Rob: Yes. Jason: So back then, they were the mining company and I was the exercise guy. So they basically worked with us to drive as much traffic as possible, so they were teaching us about building email lists, writing articles, attracting free traffic, and for email all they said was, “You know it’s like having a one on one conversation, so if you can do that, then you can write an email.” And that’s basically all I knew. I was like, “Yeah, I can do that.” I think that’s an advantage for me starting way back then ...

In the 42nd episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with Casey Slaughter Stanton about his career path and how he found his way into marketing by pushing a lawn mower. Today he runs his own marketing and tech business, and focuses on what he calls “functional marketing”. During our conversation, we asked Casey about his approach to business and working with customers. He shared: •  How you can sell more by selling to only one person •  How empathetic guessing can help you connect better with your customers •  The DOS formula and how it helps him understand his client’s business •  His approach to creating proposal clients can’t say “no” to •  How to qualify potential clients so you only work with the right ones •  What he learned working with Gary Bencivenga and Ted Nicolas (he didn’t know who they were at the time), and •  The “head, heart, and home” questions he asks about each of his clients This one is less about copywriting and more about selling your client on your services and expertise. If you struggle to land more than half of the clients who you talk to about a project, this is a must-listen episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Tony Robbins Tech Guys Who Get Marketing Dr. Marshall Rosenburg Genius Network Joe Polish KOLBE Dan Sullivan StrengthsFinder Gary Bencivenga Ted Nicholas Peter Diamandis Abundance: The Future is Better than You Think Bold: How to Go Big, Create Wealth and Impact the World 10X Talks Strategic Coach Titans of Direct Response Brian Kurtz Parris Lampropolous CaseyStanton.com The Proposal Template Casey shared at Titans Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts? Ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 42 as we chat with Casey Slaughter Stanton about how single proprietors like copywriters can better market themselves, improving the sales process, creating client proposals that clients say yes to, and what he calls city dating. Kira: Hey, Casey. Hey, Rob. How is it going? Rob: Guys. Casey: Hey, great. Great, great to be on, you all. Kira: Casey, a really great place to start would be with your story and since most of our audience has not heard of you before so let’s start there. Casey: Sure. Back in 2008 I graduated from Michigan State University with a Bachelor’s degree in Environmental Policy. When I say graduated, I just did the air quotes because I had to plead to my native American music professor to actually give me a D minus in the class and I think he gave me a D. He even threw me a bone there so I graduated somehow. I was pretty shocked and I hit the workforce and I was looking for jobs immediately after school thinking that I could get into a sales role. What I found was that unemployment was a real big issue and I watch the unemployment stats go from 5% to 6 to 7 to 8 to 9. While I was still looking for a job, they topped out at 10.5% and I was screwed because I had no real experience in anything and environment policy. It kind of meant I could only work in lancing and I just couldn’t survive there. What I was forced to do was move back home with my parents and I took the basement over and picked up a job mowing lawns and spent a whole summer on the back of a lawn mower trying to figure out what I was going to do.

Copy Chief Kevin Rogers is in the club for a special inbetween-isode. This is a rare, second episode this week and it’s a good one. Kevin shares his journey from high school drop out with ambitions of stocking shelves at the grocery store to highly paid copywriter, then chief of his own community for copywriters and other business owners. Here’s a sample of what we covered: •  How Kevin landed his first job (and had to create writing samples first) •  His “go with your gut” principle for writing good copy •  How relationships propelled his career forward and the “mentee mindset” •  His four-part joke formula for creating stellar sales hooks •  The three rules Kevin follows when he gives a speech (and the results) •  What it takes to be an expert in something (and why most writers should have a “bat signal” talent) •  John Carlton’s Pro Code, and •  What really makes Kevin angry Plus we got the details on Kevin’s upcoming event in St. Petersburg called Copy Chief Live. It sounds like an amazing event that anyone who writes copy that gets conversions might want to check out. One more thing: it looks like Kevin may have set a new record for links on his show notes page. And it’s easily the funniest list we’ve ever published (at least until we get to Carrot Top. That guy’s not funny). Check them all out. And don’t forget to click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. Most of the people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory George Carlin Rodney Dangerfield Jerry Seinfeld Sam Kinison Bill Hicks Jim Breuer Billy Gardell Star Search Ed McMahon Carrot Top John Carlton Gary Halbert Gary Bencivenga CA Magazine Nothing in Common Vin Montelo Copy Chief Clayton Makepeace Daniel Levis Carline Anglade Cole Rachel Rofé Ryan Lee Dean Jackson Nicole Piper Todd Brown Ryan Levesque James Schramko Ben Johnson Ross O’Lochlainn Jody Raynsford Wardee Harmon Parris Lampropolous Joe Schriefer Marcella Allison Henry Bingaman Copy Chief Live PI4MM.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for this special in-between-i-sode as we chat with copywriter and copy chief, Kevin Rogers, about his journey from standup comedian to highly sought after copywriter. The joke formula that became his secret for writing great hooks, mentoring other copywriters, and a special event he is putting together this Fall. Kira: Hey Kevin. Hey Rob. How’s it going? Rob: Hey guys. Kevin: Hey. Rob: Kevin, it’s great to have you here. Kevin: Man, it’s great to be here with you guys. Appreciate you having me. This will be a lot of fun. Rob: Yeah, we’ve actually had you on our list for a while, Kevin. Wanted to talk to you. You’ve got a lot of stuff going on, but let’s jump in maybe and start with your story, where you came from and how you got into copywriting? Kevin: It felt like a miracle when I found copywriting. It was like lightning striking twice in the best way in your life because I spent 10 years as a standup comedian and that was such a miracle thing to experience. A high school dropout, just had no direction. I was restless and I really hated, at one point, showing up to school every day. It just felt stupid. I don’t know what ... This isn’t for me. I wasn’t going to pursue college, and I just thought it was so much cooler to work at my job stocking shelves at grocery...

Author, coach and career change expert, Jenny Blake, joins Rob and Kira in The Copywriter Club Podcast studio this week to talk about why she organizes her book shelf by color : ). We also talk about her book, Pivot: The Only Move that Matters is Your Next One. But this isn’t just a pitch for Jenny’s book. She walked us through the process but also talked about: •  How to figure out your strengths then determine where you want to be a year from now •  How to scan the horizon for opportunities, people, and skills that might take you to the next level •  How to experiment with your pivots to eliminate risk and find things that work •  How to deal with your inner CFO who says, “you’re out of your mind” to try something new or different •  The “Do, Drop or Delegate” formula for staying engaged in your work •  Why you should create scalable streams of income as part of your business, and •  How to build a platform so you get noticed If you’re thinking about changing careers to become a copywriter, or want to explore a new niche, or simply want to make sure you’re on the right career track, this episode is a must listen. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Life After College Pivot Pivot Method Tool Kit Momentum Actionable Communications SquareSpace She Can Coterie Powerbars Stand Out by Dorie Clark Harvard Business Review Fast Company Forbes Huffington Post Medium Book Yourself Solid by Michael Port David Moldawer Ramit Sethi Marie Forleo Daily Rituals by Mason Currey Delegation Ninja (use the code TCC to save $100 or just click here) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for episode 41, as we chat with author and career strategist Jenny Blake about her Pivot Method and what it means for copywriters and others who might be wondering what’s next, leaving Google to start her own business, dealing with burnout, and whether she really organizes the books on her shelf by color, not subject. Rob: Hey, Kira. Hey, Jenny. Kira: Hello. Jenny: Hey, thank you so much for having me. Yes, indeed, I organize by color, but I will tell you, I know where every book is because the color imprint stays in my mind. It’s really easy to zoom in, like, “Oh, yeah, that was a red book, it’s over here.” It’s not as confusing as you might think. Rob: I think a lot of writers, if they go to your website, they’re going to see the video or the pictures that you’ve got of your bookshelf. That’s one of the first things, I’m like, “Oh my gosh, all of the white books are together.” Kira: I know. I love it. Rob: “All of the green books are together.” Jenny: Oh, yeah. Rob: It makes me laugh. Jenny: The funny thing is I’ve honed this thing over three or four years of living in the same apartment, so I’ll be watching TV and I’m like, “Oh, that book needs to move one slot to the left.” What you see, it’s like my bonsai tree. I just get to prune at it every single day. What you don’t see is the back of this Ikea shelf is all the reject books that don’t have a pretty color. Rob: That is too funny. Jenny, I think a lot of our listeners may not know who you are, have seen your work. You’ve got a fantastic book that we definitely want to talk about, but maybe you could start by just telling us a little bit about your story....

Kim Krause Schwalm joins Rob and Kira to share her thoughts and advice about copywriting. She also talks about how she went from successful marketing director to control-beating copywriter in less than two years. It’s a great story. Along the way she shared her thoughts about: •  climbing the copywriter ladder (and why it’s so lucrative) •  how to stay in control of your writing process •  the copywriting lessons she (re)learned from Parris Lampropolous and Clayton Makepeace • the one thing all A-list copywriters have in common • and why you might not want Kim to make your next lasagna It’s another great interview and look into how a fantastic copywriter runs her business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Clayton Makepeace interview with Kim Boardroom Gary Bencivenga Jim Rutz Healthy Directions Ted Nicholas Kim’s L.A. Bootcamp David Deutsch Brian Kurtz Clayton Makepeace Parris Lampropolous Advanced Bionutritionals The Girls Club KimSchwalm.com TheMarketingSuperPower.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 40 as we chat with A-list copywriter Kim Krause Schwalm about writing effective direct response controls, what steps other writers can take now to get a control beater, writing in the health and finance niches, and her ongoing efforts to help other women succeed in the business. Kira: Hi, Kim. Hi, Rob. Welcome. Rob: Kira, Kim. It’s good to talk to you guys. Kim: Hey, it’s great to be here. Rob: Kim, we are so excited to have you here, partly because I’ve known about you for several years. I think I remember reading an interview that Clayton Makepeace did with you a number of years ago, and I’ve followed your career and I know Kira and you have connected recently as well. We’re thrilled to be able to talk with you, but I think where we’d really like to get started is just your story, how you got into copywriting. Kim: I didn’t know copywriting existed as a profession until I was working in marketing for a major publishing company called Philips Publishing. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it, but for many years it was considered one of the powerhouse direct response marketing companies. In fact, it was bigger than Agora at the time. It was up there with Boardroom and Rodale and other major companies in terms of working with the very top-level copywriters, the ones that we all consider legends like Gary Bencivenga, Jim Rutz, Clayton Makepeace, et cetera. I went to work for them back in 1992, which seems like an eternity ago. I actually had had marketing management and brand management experiences with other companies. I had an MBA in marketing and I was just full-bore marketing, but I always could write copy. It was always one of the many hats I wore in different jobs. It was the same story at Philips, but at Philips it was one of these things that was really valued because so much of their business was built on strong copy. A lot of my different roles, I would write copy as well as direct marketing efforts. I ended up, after being there just a short while, I was asked to help them launch their supplement business, to promote supplements formulated by Dr. Julian Whitaker. I helped launch and run that company, which is called Healthy Directions,

Copywriter and cold emailing specialist, Jorden Roper, joins Kira and Rob in The Copywriter Club Podcast studio for the 39th episode. Jorden is a three time college dropout who lost her job (the same day her husband lost his job at the same company) and managed to find several freelance clients within a month. She shares how she did it, and how she used cold emailing to find clients plus: •  How you can do cold emailing that lands clients on day one •  The cold emailing formula she used to grow her business •  How she used Pinterest to brainstorm her brand •  How to be fearless as you “put yourself out there” •  How she uses Youtube to attract a different audience to her blog •  How much work she put into creating and launching her course •  The biggest mistake she sees new writers making today This one is packed with useful information and ideas any writer, beginner or expert, can use to grow and improve their business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Craig’s List Problogger Job Board Limeleads Pinterest Jorden’s video about haters on Youtube Writing Revolt Blog Cold Emailing Course Mariah Coz’s Launch Your Signature Course Maggie Patterson Jorden’s FB Community Jorden on Twitter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters, and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 39 as we chat with copywriter Jorden Roper about getting fired from bad jobs, and finding copywriting to pay the bills, using YouTube for brand building and outreach, what she has done differently from other copywriters to get an edge, and how copywriters can find great clients with cold emailing. Rob: Hey, Kira. Hey, Jorden. Jorden: Hey, guys. Kira: Hello. Welcome, Jorden. Jorden: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Rob: Yeah. It’s about time. We’ve been trying to get you on the podcast for a little while. It’s time you got here. Jorden: Yes, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much. Rob: Jorden, I think maybe we should start with your story. I know you’ve shared this a lot with your list, but a lot of our listeners probably haven’t heard it. You went through a time in your life when you were going through different jobs and landed where you are. Tell us about that. Jorden: Well, before I started my freelance writing business, pretty much right before, I had been working at this full-time job at a marketing agency. I was doing some writing there. It was very stressful. It was a super toxic work environment. I know a lot of people who are probably trying to break into freelance writing can relate to that, like just going to work every day, sitting in your car in the morning, and just wanting to scream or cry or whatever before you walk up to the office. That’s kind of the situation that I was in. I ended up getting fired from that job. Just a few months before that actually, my husband started working at the same job. When his contract ended, they decided to just let me go, too. Kira: What? Jorden: Yeah, we’re both out of work on the same day. Kira: Oh, no. Jorden: We walk out of the office together like, “Oh my God. What are we going to do? This is insane.” It was very stressful. Actually, I had some other stuff going on at the time, too, just within ... I think within the same week before this happened,

Copywriter Jessica Manuszak joins Kira and Rob to talk all things copy for the 38th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Jessica specializes in capturing the unique voice of her clients. In this interview, Jessica opens up and shares the details of how she’s grown her business over the past couple of years, including... (we added the ellipsis for her benefit—you’ll see why). •  How she became the top-performing salesperson with absurd scripts •  The “mixtape” secret for writing in her client’s voice •  Her process for naming products and services •  How she “justifies her copy” cuts down on edits by using Google Docs •  A step-by-step rundown of her process working with clients •  How she really landed several “big name” clients—she says it was luck : ( •  The thing she hates most that other copywriters keep doing Lots of good ideas and information from a successful copywriter who hasn’t been in the game for decades, but is doing well nonetheless. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ash Ambirge The Middle Finger Project The Little Mermaid Spotify Scrabble Dictionary Saved by the Bell Acuity Typeform World’s Best Boss Mug Neil Gaiman AAA Dove The Copywriter Club Email Lianna Patch Marian Schembari VerveandVigour.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 38, as we chat with copywriter Jessica Manuszak about her career journey, from working in government to growing her own agency, landing and working with big name clients, finding confidence, and what she sees as the biggest opportunities for copywriters today. Kira: Hi, Jess. Hi, Rob. How’s it going? Rob: Hey guys. Jessica: Oh, hi. I’m good, thanks. Kira: Welcome to the show, Jess. We’ve been waiting. We’ve been waiting for you. Jessica: Oh man. I’m so ready. Kira: So, I think a good place to start, Jess, is just how you ended up in copywriting, especially from government finance. Jessica: It’s funny because it was a completely natural and completely unnatural transition. Right out of college, I went into telemarketing, selling like skeezy online degrees to people who didn’t need them. I was talking to like 74-year-old women, being like, “No, but engineering would really help you with your goals.” It was not good news. But that was the first time … Rob: I can think of a couple of degrees I might want to get, actually. Kira: I know. Jessica: Right, I think we can do that. Kira: Are you still selling? Jessica: Yeah, I’ll hook you up … underwater basket weaving. But that was actually the first time I ever realized how powerful personality can be when you’re selling something. Because everyone else was like, “Oh hello, Jane. Would you like to purchase this degree program?” I was leaving them voicemails, it was like, “Jane, this is Jane from the future and I’m so glad you got that degree,” just like … Kira: Did you really? Jessica: Well, yeah. Kira: Did you really leave those messages? Jessica: Mm-hmm (affirmative), 100 percent. Kira: Wow. Jessica: I actually was the top performing salesperson on my floor while I worked there because of those like just off-the-wall, absurd scripts. So I left that, went to work for a school district, where I was managing a multi-million dollar bond project.

Copywriter and business strategist, Maggie Patterson joins The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk about growing a sustainable consulting business. This is actually the second time Maggie has joined us to chat, but sadly, the first recordings are lost to history. In this second go-round (which just might be better than the lost episode), Kira and Rob get the low down on: •  Exactly what it takes to grow a sustainable copywriting business •  The three things you need before you can teach a skill or build a course •  How to find undiscovered opportunities in your business today •  What it takes to move your business to the next level •  How to build a platform and position yourself the right way •  How to get more done (especially when you’re busy) •  How to deal with clients (the good and the bad) •  The one thing copywriters can do to improve their businesses today •  The secret to getting referrals from your clients Maggie lets loose and shares it all in this episode. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Maggie’s website The Service Business Success Show Brittany Becher Scoop Industries The conflict resolution resource Maggie mentioned but didn’t talk about Basecamp CXL article on process posted by Rob Joanna Wiebe Jamba Juice Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 37 as we chat with copywriter and entrepreneur Maggie Patterson about getting referrals, building a business and merging it with her partner’s business, productize services, why you shouldn’t create a course, and how we can up our game as copywriters. Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Maggie. Maggie: Hey, guys. Kira: How’s it going? Rob: Kira, Maggie. Maggie: I’m excited to be here. Kira: Welcome back. We did record an episode with Maggie, and it was incredible, and it was lost. Lost somewhere in a hole, so this is going to be even better, because Maggie is even more fired up this time, right? Maggie: I don’t know if that’s possible, but we’ll see what I can do. Kira: I think a great place to start, Maggie, is you recently put out a show on your podcast, the Service Business Success Show, and I believe it was episode 53 of your show. You were talking about why being a practitioner matters. That was one of my favorite shows that you put out, and I know you were fired up. I want to hear what was the catalyst for even creating that show, and maybe you can just give some backstory for people who didn’t listen to that show. Maggie: Essentially, the premise of that show was ... I love this question, by the way, because this is one of my most favorite topics. The premise of it was really that so many times, we want to cut ahead, and we just want this seven bajillion dollar business, and we don’t actually want to do the work. The reality is for us to build a sustainable business, we need to have mastery. We have to have real skills. For us to be relevant and to be able to grow to those next stages of potentially, one day, maybe in the future of having an online course, you need to be really, really good at what you do to be in touch with it. I think I see so many people teaching that aren’t doing anymore, and they’re disconnected. They’re giving advice that is not relevant, or you know what, one even worse,

Ken McCarthy, also known as the “World’s Most Secretive Copywriter” and “Mr. Internet,” is the guest for this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, jammed full of great advice for any copywriter who wants to grow beyond simply writing for clients. Ken may be the only guy who can talk about speed reading, the origins of the internet, Johnny Rotten, making soup, Tested Advertising Methods, and of course, copywriting—and have it all make sense in the end. Listen and learn: •  how Ken become the “world’s most secretive copywriter” •  what you have to do to “get good” at copywriting •  Ken's recommendation about how to grow your business beyond copy •  the “stone soup” method for creating a product •  how to avoid the “me too” trap—perhaps the biggest mistake people make online today •  the marketing secret Ken learned from a punk rock drummer •  the books he recommends to give you an unfair advantage over the other copywriters Told you it was jam packed with good stuff. It's all here in episode 36. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ben Settle Eugene Schwartz Tim Ferriss AIDA Mark Graham Mark Andreessen Jim Clark Ted Nicholas The link to Ken’s interviews (updated) System Secrets Martin Atkins Nine Inch Nails Johnny Rotten Scientific Advertising Tested Advertising Methods The Robert Collier Letter Book Gary Halbert Ken’s Copy Clinic My Life in Advertising Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you can hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 36 as we chat with Ken McCarthy, who’s been called the world’s most secretive seven-figure copywriter, about how he has built his business from internet pioneer to where he is today, the most common mistakes writers and other business owners are making online, the books and courses he says will give our listeners a competitive advantage over other writers, and whatever else comes up as we talk. Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Ken, how’s it going? Ken: Hey, good. Rob: Ken, welcome to the podcast. Ken: Thank you very much, glad to be here. Rob: We’re excited to talk with you. You’ve got a wide range of experience, and I think we could probably go on for hours and hours, but since our time’s a little bit limited, let’s start with your story, where you came from and how you became the most secretive copywriter in the world. Ken: That’s a really interesting headline or tagline. That was written actually by Ben Settle. He wrote it for me, and he’s a great copywriter, and it was written to actually promote a copywriting info marketing course that I have. He wrote it based on having taken the course. Rather than me write the letter, one of my students wrote the sales letter based on what he learned from me. Now that being said, Ben was already a really good copywriter when I met him. I didn’t teach him everything he knows. He was already really good, but the letter that he wrote was based on the learnings that he got from the course. Anyway, that’s how I became the most secretive seven-figure copywriter. It’s fairly accurate. In fact, it’s exactly accurate. Very few people think of me as a copywriter, which shows how good my copy is. They just think I’m this guy who does things, but it’s all driven by copy. I wouldn’t have been able to accomplish anything without my ability to write copy, I mean, nothing.

One of the most frequently asked questions we receive is “What tools do I need when getting started as an online teacher or coach?” Our answers might surprise you (and cost a lot less than you might think).  There are so many incredible software tools you can incorporate to streamline and simplify your online business, but it can be challenging to determine the very best (and most affordable) options — especially when you’re just starting out. We break down the tools that we recommend at various stages of business and discuss when you can get away with using free tools and when it makes sense to upgrade to paid software. Resources Mentioned: Asana, Trello, G-Suite, Canva, Namastream Software, iMovie, MailChimp, Convertkit, Squarespace, Slack, Airstory, Repurpose Joy: eteeHustle: Soulful MBA Course

Copywriter (and photographer) Misha Hettie is in the Copywriter Club studio to talk copy and Facebook Live this week. Kira and Rob asked Misha about her business and she shared a ton of great advice, including her thoughts on: •  the importance of branding yourself as a copywriter (and not looking like everyone else) •  how she became a “brand story evangelist” •  what beginners should do to get started on Facebook Live •  what is the biggest mistake people make on Facebook Live •  her “big rock method” for creating content for Facebook •  her “don’t-miss-it” advice to everyone seeking balance in their lives As usual, there’s a ton of great information in this episode. If you’ve ever thought about using video in your business, this is don’t miss advice. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Misha’s website Misha’s about page Silicone Valley Title Generator Joanna Wiebe Todd Herman 13 Reasons Why Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about the successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s was Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 35, as we chat with copywriter Misha Heady about using social media in her copywriting business, and what other writers could be doing better there. Juggling her time as a parent, writer, photographer and coach, how Facebook Live has impacted her business and spending an afternoon taking photos of Rob and me in San Antonio. Rob: Hey Misha. Kira: Hello Misha. Misha: Hey guys, how are you? Rob: We’re great, how are you? Kira: Thanks. Misha: Yeah, I’m okay. I’m having a bit of a morning here, and I don’t know if you can her my dog in the background, but I apologize if you could. Rob: We did hear a little bit but I think was might be able with cut most of that out. Misha: Okay, I’m sorry. I swear to God. She’s like, “Oh, you’re on a call, let me go freak out about something. Kira: It’s okay. I think it’s been one of those days for all three of us, which means this is going to be a great conversation. Rob: Exactly. Misha: Yeah. Kira: So, Misha, let’s start with, you know, where you come from. Because you are this multi-talented, creative, big personality, you’ve played a really big role in the copywriter club, so where did you come from. What were you doing before you were in the club as a copywriter? Misha: Well, Kira, when a man and a woman love each other very, very much ... okay, JK, terrible, terrible joke. So, where do I come from? I used to be a nine-to-fiver, like most people, and one day I lost my job, and I was like, I got to figure this out. It’s actually a longer story than that, but that’s, you know, the gist of it. And in that last position, I had been using a lot of social media tools to kind of grow people’s knowledge of our gallery. It was a tile gallery. This is like way back in the day when Flicker was like the hottest thing around. To grow people’s knowledge of our gallery, and at the same time I was studying photography more, so that is basically the short story of how I became and entrepreneur, because it’s not a very poetic story, but it’s the truth. Rob: Walk us this step-by-step. So, you lost your job, and then suddenly you weren’t a writer/photographer, whatever. As for as setting up your business, tell us more about that process. Misha: Oh, no. It was literally that next day. No, just kidding.

LA copywriter, actor, rapper, and comedian, Jason Pickar, is in the club for the 34th episode of the podcast. This episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast comes with a warning label (for mentions of a controlled substances that are still illegal in most states). Jason's an energetic writer with a portfolio full of engaging (and award-winning) work for his clients. In addition to his career path, Rob and Kira asked him about: • How to get on the stage at The Price is Right (and meet Drew Carey) • How Jason landed his first job (then another and another) in the ad agency world • His creative process—an idea he stole from improv • His “machine gun approach” to making sure his ideas get picked by the client • Writing 100 headlines in an hour • Why companies do “branding” • How he stays creative, and • How comedy and improv strengthen his copywriting Jason’s agency experience is different from most of the copywriters we've interviewed for the show. So load up your iPod (or other listening device) and pull out your notebook. This one's a good one. You can also click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory The Price is Right Jason on the Price is Right Deutch Drew Carey McCann Erickson MRM TribalDDB ShaveEverywhere.com BodyGroom Monologues Break Media (now Defy Media) Weber Shandwick BrandCenter The Creative Circus Miami Ad School Bookshop LA AdHouse AgencySpy Gilmore Girls Jason’s Twitter Jason’s Instagram Jason’s Facebook Freewordsfree.com Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work. That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 34, as a chat with copywriter Jason Pickar about writing for television, working on brands like Dr. Pepper with Madison Avenue ad agencies, how acting and comedy inform his writing, and how to get on the game show The Price Is Right. Kira: Hey Rob, hey Jason, how’s it going? Rob: Hey guys. Jason: Hey. It’s going great. Good intro. I’m down with that intro. Rob: Yeah, let’s get to it. Jason: Yeah. Kira: Okay. All right. So I think, Jason, a great place to start is with The Price Is Right. First of all, everyone needs to watch the video of you on that show. I just watched it before jumping on here. It’s ridiculous, and Jason’s ridiculous, and it’s hilarious. How did you get on the show, and what was the catalyst for even jumping into that arena? Jason: You know what? That is a very appropriate question, because I appeared on The Price Is Right on the same day that I picked up my severance check from an old agency I worked at, Deutsch. The catalyst was, quite literally, that whole thing had kind of fallen apart. The creative directors, I’d gone through four of them. Finally, we landed on one. My art director had left. It wasn’t the right fit, so we parted ways after two and a half, three years or so. Then I was at home, just watching TV. I was like, “Oh, man, I’ve always loved The Price Is Right. I’m living in Los Angeles, there’s no reason I can’t go on The Price Is Right.” So I went online, I got a ticket. You go to the studio at, like, 5:00 a.m. Hours and hours and hours before you’re even supposed to be there. I was, like, the second one in line. The key is to just have extremely high energy, be extremely friendly. In the line, they put a couple ringers in there. They’re like,

Our first guest to make an encore appearance on the club podcast is Canadian copywriter, Ry Schwartz, who just flew in from Costa Rica in time to talk with Rob and Kira about: • the new “product” Ry is launching soon with his girlfriend • using masterminds to meet potential clients • how he deals with “freak out” • how he vets clients (sometimes he asks them to sing with him) • how he conducts his R&D (and what client work has to do with it) • what he does to get people to take “uncomfortable action” • how he invoices for “giving a damn” • what he would do today if he had to start over from scratch There’s so much good stuff in this episode that we’ve already listened to it three times before we released it. Don’t miss all the great advice Ry has to share. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Copy School Joanna Wiebe Marc Angelo Capalla Superhero Academy The Wonder Twins The Babysitters Club Futurism High Existence The other Ry Schwartz podcast Marian Schembari Carpool Karoke Sam Woods TGIFridays Amy Porterfield Tarzan Kay Gabby Bernstein Jeff Walker Ryan Levesque Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for Episode 33 as we chat with copywriter Ry Schwartz about what he would do if he had to start over from scratch, how he thinks through email sequences, how to focus when you’re freaking out, and vetting new clients. Joins conversation in progress... Kira: Well, maybe we can start there. We’re not doing an official intro, I don’t think. I want to hear more about your travels and where you’ve been and why you’ve been traveling and what you’ve been doing off the radar. Ry: Yes. Yes, so I’ve been really on the road since mid-February. I’ve been location-independent for three or four years right now. I never really took advantage. I get very romantic about the idea of travel, but in practical terms, I can’t leave my house without packing for Cliff Bars, just because I have this intense fear of starvation. It really took a lot to pull the trigger on that, but it’s something that my girlfriend, Sue, and I were talking about for two years, just even considering relocating to Costa Rica for the winter, because who wants to be in Montreal in the winter? Then yeah, I finally pulled the trigger. I surprised her with this three-week trip, part of it at this mastermind. A few of the things are already taken care of for us and we don’t have to pack too many Cliff Bars. Yeah, we ventured down there in mid-February. It was initially supposed to be on the backend, at the end of the launch I was doing with the Copy Hackers. We were going to launch Copy School. I was going to create my new program within in, and then we were just going to celebrate with this three-week cathartic release in the jungle. As luck would have it, our launch dates got pushed back. I was actually in the jungle trying to get any kind of Wi-Fi possible in any location possible in order to write emails for the launch and just work with that pivot. God bless Joanna for being patient with that. I’m like, “I literally am in the middle of the jungle. There is no Wi-Fi present. The only Wi-Fi providers are three hours away and they really don’t give a crap about my product launch right now.” Yeah,

Copywriter Sarah Grear stops by the clubhouse to share how she’s built a successful copywriting business over the past five years. Sarah’s clients include course creators and entrepreneurs about to launch their products. As usual, Rob and Kira ask questions to pull back the curtain and reveal the tactics and ideas that have made her successful, including: •  The two-year process she used to identify her niche •  How she slowly priced herself out of doing websites (and what she charges now) •  Why she does “live edits” with her clients •  How she creates a copywriting experience for the people she works with •  What she did to land a speaking gig at Rick Mulready’s event and Social Media Week •  How she used networking to get 80% of her clients when she was just getting started •  Why she created a $1000 course and lowered the price since it launched •  How she takes four months off a year (and doesn't lose clients or revenue). We say this a lot, but this is another must-listen episode for anyone who wants to grow a successful writing business. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory The Copywriter Accelerator The Well-fed Writer The Law of Attraction Rick Mulready Pat Flynn Amy Porterfield James Wedmore Social Media Week Copy Camp Maggie Patterson Streak Sarah’s Giving Page 826LA Sarah’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob:Before we get to this week’s interview, we want to tell you about The Copywriter Accelerator, a new 12-week program designed to help newish copywriters get serious about their business. This isn’t a copywriting clinic. Instead, we’ll work with you to improve the business side of your business, things like your onboarding process, choosing a niche, building a brand, and being a smarter business owner. This isn’t a video course. It’s hands-on training with personal access to both Kira and me. To learn more, go to thecopywriteraccelerator.com. Now, on to the show. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 32 as we chat with freelance copywriter, Sarah Grear about writing for healers and creative souls, how she landed a speaking gig at Social Media Week, working with her coach and a team, and taking branding vacations. Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Sarah. Sarah: Hey, guys. I love it. Rob: Hey, Sarah. Sarah: I’m so excited. Rob: We’re excited to have you. Kira: I think Sarah, a great place to start, and this what I’m actually really curious to know, where did you come from? What were you doing before you started your copywriting venture? Sarah: Cool. Yeah. I totally want to share my story with you. Before I do that, I just really quickly want to acknowledge both you and Rob for putting together this amazing podcasting group. I just want to say when I first started getting my copywriting business going, I actually, the number one referral source for my business was other copywriters, and I don’t think that gets talked about enough, so part of the way I build my business is what you guys are creating, so I’m just so grateful for communities like this, and I just wanted to say thank you for that. Rob: Thank you. That’s nice of you to say. Sarah: Yeah. Totally. The way I got started in copywriting and where I came from, I actually went to art school.

Kate Toon joins The Copywriter Club Podcast for episode 31—all the way from Australia. She co-hosts Hot Copy, which we’ve jokingly referred to as “the second best copywriter” podcast. She casually throws out words like “scuppered” and “rubbish” and “bloomin’” as she talks with Rob and Kira about: • the backdoor she opened to land a copywriter job at Ogilvy • the “agency” skills she learned that she applies in her freelance work every day • why freelancing is so much harder than working at an agency • why creating products isn’t the path to easy street you might think it is • how she created products and courses—all while working for her clients • why she’s taking a year off from reading blog posts and articles And there’s much more in this episode to tickle your ears. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Ogilvy Mad Men The Clever Copywriting School Kate’s SEO Course Rand Fishkin Mustache wax Hootsuite Zencastr Moz Neil Patel QuickSprout Oprah Winfrey Netflix Crazy Ex-Girlfriend This American Life Ira Glass The Sydney Morning Herald The Misfit Entrepreneur (Kate’s Book) Kate’s website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the Club for Episode 31 as we chat with copywriter SEO expert and misfit entrepreneur, Kate Tune about creating three successful businesses without a plan, SEO copywriting, running a podcast and writing conference and how to rock a hula hoop. Rob: Hey Kira, hey Kate. Kate: Hello. Kira: Hey Rob, hey Kate, thanks for being here. Kate: Thank you for that lovely intro. Rob: We try to change it up with every guest and you’ve called yourself the misfit entrepreneur so we thought, yeah it was appropriate. Kate: Thanks, yeah. And you managed to drop the hula hooping in, as well which is awesome. Rob: Exactly. Kira: Well Kate, I think a great place to start is with how you became an SEO copywriter consultant and then we can talk about your job as a chatline operator later. Kate: Yeah, so I probably went a fairly traditional route. I’m not sure everybody’s route to copywriting is so different, isn’t it? So, I went to university and did an utterly pointless degree in history, Roman history or something like, can’t remember. And then I left and I desperately wanted to be a magazine journalist but I had racked up so much debt at university that I had to get a real job as a, pretty much a secretary. Then I worked in various jobs, in events, in publishing and eventually got hired by this weird agency that was building something called websites, way back. I’m showing my age, now. I worked there for a few years and then I moved over to Australia and managed to get a job at Ogilvy, which is a big advertising agency in America and also it’s over here in Australia, as well. From there I transitioned into being a copywriter and worked on lots of big brands, global brands and kind of hated it, kind of didn’t like the agency life and as I got older, it got harder. Then eventually I got with child and could no longer be an agency copywriter because you have to work like 70 hours a day. So I gave it all up and became a freelance copywriter. Whoo hoo! That was a potted history. Rob: Let’s unpack that jus a little bit. We talk quite a bit with copywriters who are doing freelance stuff but...

Today we're excited to talk to conversion copywriter Joanna Wiebe. You may know of Joanna already. She is the creator of Copy Hackers and the cofounder of Airstory (a new writing tool to check out). She's worked with some of the coolest companies - like Buffer, Wistia and Crazy Egg - and been invited to speak on the stages of Mozcon, Inbound and 50 other international conferences. Kate and Belinda picked her brain about conversion copywriting, A/B testing, calls to action and uncomfortably long copy.   Tune in to learn: How Joanna nearly kissed Bono How she fell into copywriting Whether you can use exactly the same on different mediums 3 elements of perfectly written conversion copy Call to action mistakes most copywriters make Why long copy may actually be better How the buying cycle and your landing page copy correlate How Joanna writes copy with no client revisions And more... And from you we'd love to know, what is your favourite TV show? Tell us on Twitter or our Facebook page.   Listen to the podcast below: Bio: Who is Joanna Wiebe? The original conversion copywriter, Joanna is the creator of Copy Hackers and the cofounder of Airstory, the drag-and-drop document that saves professional writers time. She's worked with some of the coolest companies - like Buffer, Wistia and Crazy Egg - and been invited to speak on the stages of Mozcon, Inbound and 50 other international conferences. Oh, and she's more than happy to be a crazy cat lady. (She walks her cats. Yup. Walks ‘em.) Share the pod love! If you like what you're hearing on Hot Copy, the best way to support the show is to take just a few seconds to leave a rating and / or comment over on iTunes or Stitcher. Thanks! Oh and high fives all around to Tom Morkes for his review. Share the meme:  Useful links: Copy Hackers Joanna on Twitter 6 Proven Ways to Boost the Conversion Rates of Your Call-to-Action Buttons (Copyblogger) 20 Mistakes that Will Undermine Your Call to Action and Cost You Sales (Copyblogger)  

This episode is sponsored by LiquidWeb, my awesome Managed WordPress host Anytime I hear about anything that will help me with my content creation and planning I get excited. Plus, you know me and how much I love new tools. I do have a confession to make, though, I haven't spent as much time as I want to in Airstory. As I've been streamlining things in my business I've started spending more time 'cleaning' things up. So right now everything is a process. It doesn't make a ton of sense to jump into new things before I've made space for them. My initial interest in Airstory was because of needing to create a content strategy for LeadSurveys (still working on that one). I came across Airstory through Producthunt and as soon as I saw who was behind the app (Joanna Wiebe & Lance Jones of Copyhackers), I knew it was something I wanted to try. Who would be better at putting together an app for organizing content and writing than a writer?   I'll definitely do a follow-up post with how I'm using Airstory and what is working for me (truth: this might take a little longer since I'm approaching my content from a different perspective. In other words, taking more time to create more in-depth content. I'll still produce some quick posts when the mood strikes me, but I want to go deeper most of the time). Let's jump into the interview Questions I Asked Lance Before we get into Airstory, your partner in business and life is Joanna Wiebe and you two are the brains behind Copyhackers. For those who aren't familiar with Copyhackers, can you share what the site is about and what you guys do? Let's jump into Airstory. Can you explain what Airstory is? What made you guys decided to create a SaaS product? Can you share what the process was like for building Airstory? You guys did a beta run of the app before it launched to the public on February 2nd. How did you determine the length of the beta? Let's talk pricing. Something that seems to be a little all over the place with SaaS products. How did you decide on the pricing model for Airstory? What's the plan for the remainder of this year? What You're Going to Learn How they went about starting a web app (and why they didn't go with a WordPress plugin) How long it took to go from idea to beta release (and how changing developers was the right move) What type of feedback their users have been giving What features people use most in Airstory How Airstory is being compared to Google Docs The roll that cards and drag and drop functionality play in Airstory What integrations and extensions make Airstory so easy to use Where to Connect with Lance, Joanna and Airstory Airstory | Facebook | Twitter    

One day, Joanna Wiebe (@copyhackers) was hanging out on a web forum, helping a few startup founders with their copy. The next thing she knew, she had an inbox filled with requests for her help. So many people needed her copy help, that she couldn't help them all, so Joanna released some ebooks, under the name Copy Hackers, and made about $30,000 right away. Since then, Joanna has helped hundreds of entrepreneurs with their copy. But the more time she spent writing copy, the more she realized that all writers struggle with one thing: facing the blank page. Joanna has built a new app, called Airstory, to help serious writers collect together all of the pieces that make good writing, and make it happen. I immediately found it interesting, I've learned the hard way over the years that writing is not linear. Airstory helps bring the research and collaboration components of writing into a single cohesive experience. Joanna and I will talk more about how to keep the creative process going smoothly. Plus, she'll share some great tips on doing customer research – I especially like her hack of combing through Amazon reviews. Learn how, by following her passion, improvising with what she had, and facing her fears, Joanna has gone from her day job, to an information business, to building Airstory.   Take the listener survey (before April 7) for a chance to win a $20 Amazon Gift Card: http://kadavy.net/survey Show Notes: http://kadavy.net/blog/posts/joanna-wiebe-interview/    

Shanelle Mullin, copywriter and content curator for ConversionXL joins The Copywriter Club Podcast with Kira and Rob talk to talk about what copywriters really need to know about testing, how she picked her career path at the age of 15, what writers can do to network more effectively at conferences like CXL Live (where Shanelle plays a big role) and how she has connected with so many “big names” online. After the last marathon episode, this one is a more reasonable length. Lots to learn here... Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Life Lessons Learned from 10 Years of Marketing Habbo Hotel Rene Warren OnBoardly Klout Joanna Wiebe Gary V Tim Ferris Peep Laja Talia Wolf ConversionXL Live ConversionXL Institute A/B Testing Mastery Psychological Backfiring Buying Modalities Oli Gardner Sean Ellis Jared Spool Krista Seiden Joel Klettke Shanelle’s twitter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with the seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 23 as we chat with copywriter and content creator Shanelle Mullin about choosing a career at the ripe old age of 15, taking risks, conversion optimization, analytics, and curating content for fast-growing startups like Onboardly and ConversionXL. Rob: Hey, Kira, Shanelle. Shanelle: Hey guys. Kira: Hi. Thanks for joining us, Shanelle. Shanelle: Yeah, thanks for having me. Kira: Great place for us to start is with an article you recently published, I believe you recently published it, on Medium entitled Life Lessons Learned from 10 Years of Marketing. It was a great read and I know you mention that you really got into marketing at the age of 15. I would love to start there and find out what compelled you to jump into this world of marketing at such a young age? Rob: Yeah, what kind of a kid thinks, “Hey, I know what I’m ready to do already”? Shanelle: Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of a weird story. I was probably 13 at the time and I was playing a game called Habbo Hotel, which if you’re not familiar ... Kira: What is that game? Shanelle: You create like a little pixel avatar of yourself and then you walk around this hotel and you can chat with people from around the world and you can collect furniture and play games and it was really fun when I was 13 and I was obsessed with it. Kira: Wait, it sounds fun right now. I kind of want to play. Rob: Check into that. Shanelle: Yeah. I decided to look into other people who were making these mini-Habbo Hotels and they were basically just teenagers like me and they were all hanging out on this forum. I joined this forum and I just ended up talking to them and getting to know some of the marketing people and I had no idea what marketing was of course because I was 13. They just explained it to me like simple price, product, placement, and promotion terms and I was like, “That sounds amazing,” for some reason. I started reading about it and by the time I was 15 I had gotten my first marketing gig, which was exciting. Rob: Where do you go to from there? You know, you’re 15, you’ve basically started your career. Tell us the rest of the story. What happens? How does it unfold over the next few years? Shanelle: Yeah, so I actually started working for the guy who ran this forum that I was part of.

Direct response guru Brian Kurtz joins The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk copy. But interviewing Brian isn't like interviewing most people. He's a bit like a jazz musician who takes your question and riffs on it—sharing all kinds of great stories and advice in the process. You just let him go. In this episode, Kira and Rob asked Brian about his article, The Next Million Dollar Copywriter, in addition to questions about mastermind groups and what baseball can teach us about copywriting (listen to the end of this admittedly long interview for his fantastic answer). This is one of our favorites and once you listen, you'll understand why. Special bonus: Brian broke our record for the most people and stuff mentioned in a single episode. Check them all out. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Mel Martin Gene Schwartz Parris Lamprolous How to Write a Good Advertisement by Victor Schwab Breakthrough Advertising Bencivenga Bullets Boardroom Marty Edelston Jim Rutz David Deutch Clayton Makepeace Jim Punkre Judy Weiss Joan Throkmorton Kim Krause Schwalm Carline Cole Bill Jayme Dick Benson Gordon Grossman Titans of Direct Response Dan Kennedy Eric Beteul Arthur Johnson Ken McCarthy Perry Marshall Jay Abraham Joe Sugarman Greg Renker Fred Catona The Advertising Solution Jeff Walker The next million dollar copywriter John Carlton’s course You may not know it when you see it Genius Network National Enquirer Dan Sullivan’s Strategic Coach Mariano Rivera TheLegendsBook.com BrianKurtz.me Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 22, as we chat with marketing titan and direct response expert, Brian Kurtz, about working with A-list copywriters like Gary Bencivenga and Gene Schwartz, what the next million dollar copywriter will be doing, what copywriters need to know today about lists and direct mail, and what baseball can teach us about marketing. Kira: Hey, Brian. Hey, Rob. How are you? Rob: Kira, Brian, we’re thrilled to have you. Brian: I like those fascinations, you know? Gene Schwarz and Mel Martin and a host of other copywriters would be proud of your teaser bullets. Rob: It might not be quite the level of something Parris would write but we sure try. Brian: At Boardroom, we call those fascinations and it’s something that ... and you mention Parris Lampropoulos, who’s one of my close friends and a copywriter who we made millions together at Boardroom and he has copy cubs that he works with and I believe he still ... One of the first things he does, he makes them read Victor Schwab’s book and makes them copy the first three chapters of Breakthrough Advertising by Gene Schwartz, hand write copy. One of the things Parris does, I think for the first big chunk of time that he trains his copywriters is teaching them how to write bullets, teaching them how to write fascinations. Kira: Interesting. Brian: Don’t worry about the body copy. Don’t worry about the narrative. Don’t worry about the storytelling. Get the copy, get the bullets down. Gary Bencivenga called his newsletter Bencivenga Bullets. It’s sort of like getting the technique down in a way so that you start really thinking like your prospect, what’s going to get under their skin,

Joel Klettke stops by The Copywriter Club Podcast studio to chat with Kira and Rob talk about how he launched his business as a highly paid copywriter, his process (and a roadmap for a roadmapping session), testing rates, working with other writers and relentlessly chasing down referrals to bring in new business. We asked Joel if anyone can learn copywriting and accomplish what he has, he didn’t sugar coat the answer (you’ll have to listen to hear what he said). And while we say this about a lot of our episodes, this one truly is stellar. The advice Joel shares should be a permanent part of every copywriter’s playbook. Check it out: Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Upwork ProBlogger Job Board HubSpot Insight Squared Joel’s Process Page Brennan Dunn MozCon Joanna Wiebe Kate Toon The Copywriter Club Facebook Page Business Casual Copywriting Case Study Buddy Neil Patel Joel at TedX ConversionXL SearchLove Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/Club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work process and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 21 as we chat with conversion copywriter Joel Klettke about leaving a guaranteed six figure job for the uncertainties of freelance, the power of case studies to grow a business, speaking to audiences like Conversion XL and SearchLove, and what he did to land a big client like HubSpot. Rob: Hey, Kira and Joel. Kira: Hey. Joel: Hey, how’s it going? Rob: Good, how are you doing? Joel: I’m good. It’s finally warm here, so I’m enjoying not shivering in my boots as I try to type things. Rob: That’s always a good thing, right? Joel: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Rob: So Joel, we should start off with your story, how you got to be where you are. I know there’s a lot of different things that we can cover as we talk about that, but you left a very good job in the SEO world to take on a job as a freelancer, and we’d love to hear more about that and how you were so successful so quickly. Joel: Sure, so the short story is that I’d been working for an agency for almost five years. I’d kind of just fallen into that job. I really enjoyed SEO, but I knew it wasn’t what I wanted to forever. I’d always loved to write, but I’d never seen a business case for it. I saw the whole digital industry turning its head towards content. Content marketing, the role of copy and landing pages. I thought, “Okay, well if ever there was a time to take what I feel like I’m good at and turn it into a business, the time is now.” I had told the company that I was working for, “This is it. I’m checking out. I’m going out on my own.” In my head, I had kind of made up my mind to say, “Yeah, that’s what I’m going to do.” Shortly after I did that, I got an offer to go in house at quite a big firm with clients who are household names, big car companies and household brands, and it was a guaranteed six figure pay day. All of a sudden, these things that I’d thought I’d been so confident in kind of got thrown through a loop. Do I really want to go out on my own and be a writer? Everything I’ve read about this says I’m not going to make any money, I’m going to struggle to have clients, but do I really want to keep doing SEO and just have the same frustrations, and problems, and challenges on a bigger scale? Ultimately, I wrestled with it for a couple days, and thought, “No,

In the 20th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk about the ideas and advice from the first 19 episodes that they've found most helpful in their own businesses. This episode is a bit like a Cliff Notes version of the podcast and a great way to catch up on the show if you've missed any of the previous discussions. But more than just a review, Rob and Kira talk about how the ideas their guests have shared have changed the way they do business. This is a great episode, don't miss it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Reviews in iTunes and Stitcher Facebook Group Joanna Wiebe Ben Settle The Ultimate Sales Letter The Advertising Solution Breakthrough Advertising Claude Hopkins The Dark Arts of Long Form Sales Pages Amy Posner Lianna Patch Jennifer Havice Tarzan Kay Kira’s Email List Lacy Boggs Rob’s Email List Finding the Right Message (Jen’s book) Ry Schwartz Amy Porterfield Jessica Mehring Kaleigh Moore CrazyEgg AppSumo Entrepreneur Jasmine Star Sam Woods Hillary Weiss Danny Marguiles Upwork Laura Belgray Joel Klettke Roy Furr Brian Kurtz Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 20 as Kira and I talk about our favorite advice from several episodes of the podcast and how we’re applying it in our businesses. Kira: Hi, Rob. Rob: Hi, Kira. How’s it going? Kira: It’s fantastic. Rob: Yeah, today’s a really good day. Kira: Today is a great day. We’re pumped up from our previous interview and conversation that was just really ... Gosh, it just gets me so excited about what we’re doing. Rob: I’m the same way. It’s like every time we talk to another expert, another copywriter who’s doing really smart things with their business, I just get so excited. I get off the interview. It makes me more excited about the work that I’m doing, the clients that I’m working for, that stuff that we’re doing in the Facebook group, and all that stuff. This has been an awesome fun project that we’ve been working on. Kira: Totally. Today’s episode is really discussing some of the major highlights from the past 20 shows. I think we’ll jump around a bit. We’ll probably going to miss some of them. Also, talking about the way that we’ve already integrated some of these changes or some of these lessons into our own businesses. Some of them we have not, but they’re mostly ones that I or still my list of things to do. I have implemented a couple and I know you have as well. Rob: Before we do that though, we want to cover two things. That first is that for everybody who’s listening, if you haven’t already taken the opportunity to leave a rating or a review in iTunes, if you would please ... We know you might be driving. Pull over, park the car, go to iTunes, leave us a review. We’d love it if it’s five stars, but even if it’s not, we really want that feedback for two reasons. One, it tells us that you’re listening and that you enjoy what we’re doing. Two, it really does help other people find the podcasts. When there are a lot of reviews, Apple moves it to the top of the list. There are a couple of good podcasts for other writers and we just want to be ranked among those. If you take a minute to rate us in iTunes or if you’re on Stitcher, that would be fantastic. Kira: Also,

Upwork specialist Danny Maguiles joins Kira and Rob for the 19th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, where they talk about how to create a six-figure freelance writing career working with clients on Upwork, Danny's Crystal Ball technique for winning clients, and three things copywriters can do to separate themselves from all of the other writers out there. We didn't hold back in this one—we grill Danny on the truth about working on platforms like Upwork. And honestly, we were surprised by what he had to say. Don't miss this one... Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Danny Interview at Bloomberg's Benchmark Podcast Upwork That Medium Post That Medium Post, Part II That Medium Post, Part III Freelance to Win Secrets of a Six Figure Upworker The Copywriter’s Handbook by Bob Bly Decisive by Dan and Chip Heath Start With Why by Simon Sinek Simon Sinek’s TED Talk Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I do every week on The Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 19, as we chat with copywriter Danny Margulies about his six figure success in Upwork, how copywriters can use job platforms to gain experience and grow their businesses, what he teaches other writers in his community and the shift from being overworked to running his own business. Rob: Hey, Kira and Danny. Danny: Hey, guys. Rob: Thanks for being here, Danny. So, I think a good place to start is your story before you started writing for Upwork and taking clients on Upwork and you really made a name for yourself. What were you doing before that? Danny: Not much is the short answer. It’s funny you should ask because people send me emails all the time and they’ll be like, “Oh, it’s so obvious you’re a great copywriter and you must have all this experience and I don’t have that much experience, so I can’t do this.” I’m like, “Whoa, take a step back, okay?” That’s like 10 assumptions too many. I’ll tell you, I was on Bloomberg News talking about freelancing about maybe six months ago and after the segment, I was talking to somebody who worked there. They were like, “Wow, I can totally see why you are able to take this to this level.” In my head, it’s kind of like one of those cartoons where my head is ... I got this bubbling image of me five years earlier, which is really not a very long time, picture this, sitting at my kitchen table unemployed. my wife and I both unemployed, expecting a baby. I have no college education. I have no real skills. The job I just quit was working for an insurance services company for 15 bucks an hour and by the way, just a spoiler for anyone listening, they really do pay you to lie. It is an awful, awful industry. All the stereotypes are true. Before that, I was working at a car dealership, another place where a lot of people get paid to lie. I made like 15 bucks an hour there. Before that I was doing telephone surveys. I would call people in the middle of dinner and say, basically, beg them for 10 minutes of their time, to take a survey. I had a series of really awful, non-career dead-end jobs and now I found myself ... it was Friday, July 20th of 2012 and I was just desperate. I had maybe a months worth of bills that I could pay with the tiny amount of money in my savings account. I mean, this is all very embarrassing, but I say it for a purpose,

Hillary Weiss is in the house for the 18th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob, Kira and Hillary chat about finding confidence, hiring and working with a VA, Hillary’s love for Andre3000 and hip hop, the lessons she’s learned from building a course and where she’s taking her business in 2017. We tried to find links to her Star Wars Romance Fan Fiction, but so far Google has failed us. If you know where she’s hiding these nuggets, add the link in the comments. Don’t miss this fantastic episode with freelance copywriter Hillary Weiss. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Don’t write words. Write Music. Andre3000 Michael Bolton and Tupac Crew.co Blog The NextWeb Buffer Blog Art of becoming indispensible (Business Insider) Hillary’s old site Are you the icing or the cake? Copyblogger Problogger Alexandra Franzen Danielle Laporte Amy Harrison Hillary’s Website Hillary’s Twitter Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal and idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 18 as we chat with copywriter Hillary Weiss about how she got started as a writer writing for publications like Business Insider and the New York Observer, teaching what she knows, and the art of being indispensable. Kira: Hey Rob. Hey Hillary. How’s it going? Rob: Hey Hillary. Hillary: It’s going awesome. Thank you so much for having me guys. I’m so excited to be here. Kira: We’re excited to have you. Hillary is a friend, and I was just trying to go back to when I first heard about you and our first meeting, and so, to reflect a little bit, I think I heard about you originally on the Unemployable Woman podcast. Hillary: Oh, yeah. Kira: A couple of years ago. Hillary: Yeah, I remember that. Kira: I had seen you online before that, but I remember listening to that show, and I’m pretty sure on that show you talk about how you got your start as a copywriter and that you had originally reached out to Alexandra Franzen about being her apprentice, or just getting into the industry, and how that really helped you. And I remember listening to the podcast, and I was like, “Ooh, that’s a good idea,” and I’m going to do that to you Hillary. I was like, “I’m going to get you.” I immediately reached out to you, and somehow we set up a meeting, and I remember meeting you in New York City, and I was super pregnant at the time, and just liking you, liking you very much. Hillary: Yeah, I remember that. You organized that whole lunch, I think, and gosh, it was awesome. Memories. Yeah, and I believe the word I used for Alex was not apprentice. I believe it was actually minion. Kira: Oh, right, right. Hillary: She was generous to let me in, so yeah, that’s one of my favorite stories, actually, in terms of how I got started in the sphere. It’s just reaching out and asking. Kira: Yes. I think a good place to start is with confidence, because I know that’s what we talked about recently when we met up, and I want to hear about the course that you’ve been creating and how you’re helping copywriters cultivate their confidence, which is a challenge for all of us, including myself. Hillary: Yeah, absolutely. For me, it’s not just to copywriters. The course I’m working on is for entrepreneurs and online creatives, and generally anyone who wants to not just learn to write be...

Copywriter and analytics expert, Momoko Price, joins Rob and Kira for this 17th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast to talk about how she has created a unique niche business that combines copywriting with analytics, how she helps clients understand the importance of analytics, the course she created for ConversionXL and much more. Data geeks won't want to miss this episode—neither will any writer who works with clients that need more conversions. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Joanna Wiebe Conversion Optimization FB Group Peep and ConversionXL Momo’s Facebook page Kantan.io (Momo’s website) Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Kira: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at airstory.co/club. Rob: What if you could hang out with really talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I try to do every week at the Copywriter Club Podcast. Kira: You’re invited to join the club for episode 17, as we chat with conversion copywriter and analytics expert Momoko Price about conversion optimization, the role analytics plays in her process, running a live copywriting course and how she’s attracted high-caliber clients like Intuit, Scotiabank, and AT&T. Hey Rob. Hey Momo! Rob: Kira. Momo. Momo: Hi. Kira: How’s it going? Thanks for being here, Momo. I think a good place to start with you, is kind of the story before this story. How did you end up as a conversion copywriter? Momo: Oh my god. Well, I started out ... okay, so I originally started out in Science. Can you hear me still? Rob: Yes. Momo: I started out in Science. I specialized in Evolutionary Biology. Went to grad school for that. Realized that, despite liking science and all that stuff, that lab work was not my lifestyle. I did not want to do that. And then I had always straddled between Science and also doing Journalism and Writing. It was kind of like a dual strength. So, I hopped over into Journalism right around the time of the financial crisis, and I worked as a copy editor for one of the larger newspapers in Canada, and did some freelance writing and stuff like that. And then as I started to do that ... I was living in Toronto and there’s a pretty healthy tech scene there. One of the things that really frustrated me when I was working in the news room, at a newspaper, was just you can kind of feel the luddite-ism in the newsroom. It was just the sheer feeling of apprehension when dealing with the internet and technology, and everything that was happening with publishing. I was like this is not where I want to be in my ... I don’t think it’s a good idea to be heading down, despite how much I like writing, I don’t necessarily see this being the best place to be. Like I want to actually be in a field of work that embraces technological innovation, as opposed to running screaming from it. Rob: Yeah. Momo: So then I can’t even remember how it happened but I met some people who were working at a couple of start-ups in Toronto, and then there was a guy who was founding one. He was like “I like the cut of your jib. I’m going to hire you.” I worked for him, and then the more I did that, I just started hanging out with more people in tech and eventually, that went from writing for tech and doing some freelance work and then I ... I can’t even remember how I started getting into conversion copywriting. Probably because I stumbled across Joanna Wiebe’s stuff and then when I started realizing that oh, there’s this whole world of writing,

Lacy Boggs joins Kira and Rob to talk about creating a distinctive brand voice for her own business as well as her clients, what kinds of projects she takes on (and how she prices them), the impact creating courses and other content has had on her business and the advice she would give to just-starting-out Lacy about copywriting and building a business. Lacy is an expert content creator. This episode is jammed full of great advice and helpful tips that other writers should pay close attention to. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Sarah Ancalmo Tara Gentile Beth Hayden Sally Hogshead and How to Fascinate Lacy’s About Page Lacy’s Website Lacy's Facebook page Lacy’s Library Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with really talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I try to do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 16 as we chat with copywriter and secret agency, Lacy Boggs, about telling a good story, creating a unique brand voice for her business, being an authority and her secrets for improving her own writing skills. Hey, Kira, Lacy. Kira: Hey. Lacy: Hey! Kira: Hey, Rob. Hey, Lacy. Thanks for being here, Lacy. Lacy: Yeah, I do love being introduced as a secret agent. That’s pretty fun. Rob: You are a secret agent, or at least that’s what we’d be lead to believe on your own website. Lacy: That’s right. That’s right. Rob: In fact, that’s sort of my first question for you. You’ve got such a unique brand voice. It comes out so clearly on your website. Tell us a little bit about that. Lacy: Sure, yeah. That was an interesting process I went through about two years ago now. I worked with Sarah Ancalmo of Public Persona for that and she was a client of mine first and then I told her, “Yeah, I need you.” Then I worked with her to get my branding down. It was a really interesting process. I have so much respect for her because she is ... She goes really in depth, you know? It’s a really interesting process to go through, but while we were going through what she calls privé which is the first part of her process, this idea kept coming up that I was going undercover or that I was pretending to be other people. I have a degree in film. I love film noir. I love fiction and reading mysteries and stuff. It evolved from there that ... I remember asking her, “Is this weird? Can I do this? Is this too over the top?” We didn’t want to be kitschy with it, but at the same time it was so much fun. It felt so good. It felt real. It felt like where I was supposed to be. Anyway, it was an interesting process to get there. Kira: How has your brand changed your business and even your life? I know we chatted about this a bit and I’ve worked with Sarah as well and just the impact that a new brand can make. Even on the way that you style your hair, right? Lacy: Yeah. Kira: It just changes everything. Can you share any numbers, business numbers, or just any changes in your person life? Lacy: Yeah. One thing that Sarah says during the process is that you’re branding yourself for the business you want to have in five years, not the business you have right now. It’s very forward-looking. Part of the process was for me to define who would be my ideal customer if I were thinking bigger. This was two years ago, but five years out, who do I want to be working with? What do I want to be doing?

The one and only Joanna Wiebe, who invented the title, conversion copywriter, joins Rob and Kira for the 14th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. They talk about Joanna's ambition to be a dermatologist (she's never talked about this publicly before), dropping out of law school on the first day, being a creative writer (and how that was a mistake), what she would do if she had to build her business from scratch today, where Joanna finds inspiration and a bunch of other copy-related questions.  Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Copyhackers Intuit The copywriter mastermind Fresh Skin Care Products Neil Patel Rob's Newsletter (which Joanna says is “really good”) Brain Clark Copyblogger Tim Grahl Jen Havice Deep Dyve Joanna’s post on time management Todd Herman Dan Kennedy’s Ultimate Sales Letter Breakthrough Advertising Joel Klettke Sam Woods Dan Martell AirStory Laura Weaver Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You’re invited to join the club for episode 14 as we chat with the original conversion copywriter, Joanna Wiebe, about how copywriters can build a platform to get noticed, how she built her list, and what she would do differently if she had to start over today, how writers can command bigger paychecks, and what she’s learned working one-on-one with writers in her mastermind group. Kira: Hey Rob. Hey Joanna. How’s it going? Rob: Hey Joanna. Joanna: Hey guys. Nice intro. I love it. Your voices are both very radio friendly. It’s amazing. Rob: Maybe we need a radio show instead of a podcast. Joanna: NPR will pick this up, so don’t worry. Kira: That’s the goal. Rob: Joanna, we are really thrilled that you’re willing to chat with us. Maybe we could start with you just telling us a little bit about your story. I noticed on your, on the Copy Hackers site in your bio you mentioned that if you weren’t a writer you’d be a dermatologist, which kind of makes me laugh because I cannot even think of myself doing that sort of thing. But tell us a little bit about just your history and your story and how you became a writer. Joanna: It’s so long. I fell like it’s, like I have to get much better at editing myself when I speak, so apologies. Or that’s a terrible way to set it up actually. This is going to be a very exciting story. Are you ready? Rob: There you go. We’re ready. Joanna: I fell into copywriting. I had been a law student and I graduated. Kira: Oh wow. Joanna: Yeah. Kira: Didn’t know that. Joanna: No, for two whole days. I love the idea, like I love the LSAT. I finished my English degree. I went lived in Japan. Of course in Japan I was like isolated in the middle of Hokkaido which is the northernmost island and I was in the very middle of it. It’s snowing constantly for like nine months of the year. I was very isolated and I got some LSAT books and I just started practicing the LSAT. I went through thousand LSAT practice books and I really loved it. I loved the game side of it so I was like, “Well, maybe I’ll just like go and see if I can like, what if I just like become a lawyer. Okay, I could do that.” I took the LSAT and I got into law school. It was actually the night before, the night before my first day of law school my dad died, the night before. You’re like, “Oh crap.

Jennifer Havice talks about how to do customer research, how writing a book has changed her business, the #1 thing she's done to move her copywriting business forward in the past year, what she's learned from horses and a ton of other great advice on the twelfth episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Don't miss it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory Jen and horses Peep Laja Copyhackers/Joanna Wiebe Jen’s book: Finding the Right Message Breakthrough Advertising Joe Sugarman’s book: Advertising Secrets Rob’s Book: Telling Your Brand Story James Turner Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: Rob: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at Airstory.co/club. Kira: What if you could hang out with really talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about your successes and failures, their work processes and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I try to do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob: You're invited to join the club for episode twelve, as we chat with freelance copywriter and marketing expert, Jennifer Havice, about conversion copywriting, how to do customer research and the impact of publishing a book on her business. Kira: Hello. Hello, Rob. Hello, Jen. Rob: Jen, Kira. Jen: How are you guys doing? Rob: We're good. Kira: I'm pumped. Rob: Yeah, excited. Kira: Jen, to start, I would love to hear about your work with horses because I know that's a passion of yours and I want to tie it to what we're talking about. If you could tie and connect your work with horses and about hobby and interest into business, what have you learned from your work with horses that has helped you in business? Rob: That's maybe a question you haven't had a lot on ... Jen: I haven't but it's actually a very good question because ... and it may still happen. At one point, I was working with my trainer to put together some resources for women riders and to help them have better relationships with their horses. There's just so many actually interesting life lessons that you can take from working with horses and there are things that are not only just life lessons but I've applied to my work and writing. Things like, clarity of the message, making sure that you're being very direct in your communication. Especially with animals, they need very clear communication, they need to know what you're talking about. They get very frustrated when you're giving them lots of different cues and mixed signals, which is something that happens on websites, as we know, and other forms of communication that we work with. Yeah, it's interesting working with animals and that relationship and really needing to be honest and transparent and direct because they can totally see right through you. Rob: Jen, I am curious, sort of stepping away from the horse training thing, how did you get started as a copywriter? You've got a lot of big clients and people who depend on you for the copy that you do and a lot of people saying good things about you, people like Peep Laja and others? How did you get started and how did you get to where you are today? Jen: That's very kind of you. Well, it's funny, I started writing online, gosh, probably about almost eight years ago and really got into blogging, of all things, and was writing some social commentary online for myself and for some other sites. As I was trying to promote that and get some of my writing seen more, I was learning everything I could about social media and how do you promote yourself and get yourself out there and everything to do with online marketing. What ended up happening is people started to come to ...

In the 11th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast, Kira and Rob talk with direct response copywriter Amy Posner running an agency and her move to freelancing, her lead magnet and what she includes with it to close more projects, her sales process and how she closed a $27,000 project, and the advice she would give to a copywriter who is just starting out. Great advice here. Don’t miss it. Click the play button below, or scroll down for a full transcript. The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: Sponsor: AirStory The Copywriter Mastermind Kolbe Profile Amy's Info Kit Ramit Sethi Amy's Website Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity Full Transcript: KH: The Copywriter Club Podcast is sponsored by Airstory, the writing platform for professional writers who want to get more done in half the time. Learn more at airstory.co/club. RM: What if you could hang out with really talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work process and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That’s what Kira and I try to do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. KH: You’re invited to join the club for episode 11 as we chat with freelance copywriter Amy Posner about her client proposal process, cold prospecting, being a direct response copywriter, and her thoughts about certifications for copywriters. Thanks for coming back, Amy. I feel like we should share that we already have a interview due, and had a conversation with you, and it erased by accident and it was gold. It was pure gold. RM: We lost it, and we are sorry, but we are grateful to have you back. AP: Yeah. I hope I can do whatever magic it was last time. I can’t remember. KH: The good thing is, it’s been a couple of weeks, so I have actually forgotten most everything we talked about, so this all feels fresh and new to me. We’ll just start from scratch here. AP: Sounds good. KH: To start, Amy, I know that you’ve had a really evolved last year. You changed a lot in your business, and you joined The Copywriters Mastermind. Could you just share just kind of an overview of how your business has changed over the past year? AP: Wow. That’s a big question. I’ll preface it by saying, I’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time and I seem to thrive on change, so that’s kind of like my MO. I’m not sure that that’s the best thing, but what’s happened this year has been really good. I have resisted choosing a niche for many years. I kind of niched in copy as opposed to like in a, in an industry sector. One of the things that I realized, at some point last year, was that I wanted to streamline my business. I started this ... What is this? 2016? The end of 2014, I developed this little mantra, which was “work less, earn more.” I set about trying to figure out, “How do I do that?” What I realized was I get bored easily, so I’ve always really enjoyed diversity. Doing different things. Working for different clients. I did a lot of jobs that were involved and complicated and many of them were one-offs. Sometimes clients would come back after a year or two but I didn’t have a lot of regular, repetitive business. That meant two things. One is that I was learning. I was taking a big learning curve all the time, and I was enjoying that for a long time. The other thing was it meant I was always on the hunt. I decided that that wasn’t the most efficient way to run my business, so I looked for ways to streamline my efforts, and fulfill this “earn more, work less” kind of thing that I set up for myself. I don’t know if I answered your question exactly, but those are some of the broad strokes. RM:  Amy, I’m really curious. You mentioned that you haven’t really niched yourself except to say that you’re a copywriter, but in a lot of ways you’ve, over the last few years, sold yourself as a direct response copywriter.

This week Tara talks to the copywriter she does to when she is ready to hone her skills, Joanna Wiebe. Joanna is the original conversion copywriter and co-founder of Copy Hackers and Airstory. She has optimized copy for businesses like Wistia, Buffer, Tesco, BT and spoken on the stages of MozCon, Conversion XL Live, and […] The post Episode 69 – Turning Customer Research Into a New Product with Copy Hackers and Airstory co-founder Joanna Wiebe appeared first on What Works.

Joanna Wiebe, co-founder of Copy Hackers and Airstory, joins us on the podcast this week to discuss conversion copywriting. Joanna has helped businesses like Invision, Shopify, Crazy Egg, Rainmaker/Copyblogger, BT, AVG, and Tesco optimize their copy. She also works with research partners like Buffer, Wistia, and MadMimi to test some […] The post appeared first on .

Today I’m talking with Joanna Wiebe, the founder of CopyHackers.com. CopyHackers is an online resource for everything you need to know about copywriting, including many informative case studies. Her new project, Airstory, is a fantastic content production tool for high-performance writing teams. Joanna taught me how to write effective sales copy and on today’s episode we discuss her Rule of One: how you can make sure that when you do write, your writing is focused on talking to one customer archetype.

How often do you really put yourself out there? Are you actively seeking communities to be part of, people to help, and ways to grow? If you’re busy working away in solitude, you are likely missing some huge opportunities that are just around the corner. Today we’re talking to Joanna Wiebe. The original conversion copywriter, Joanna is the creator of the popular marketing blog Copy Hackers and the founder of Airstory: all your team's knowledge, searchable and ready to use.

The original conversion copywriter, Joanna is the Founder of CopyHackers and Airstory. She's optimized copy for Wistia, Buffer, Crazy Egg, Neil Patel, Shopify, Rainmaker, and countless others.

105: WHAT FAMOUS COPYWRITERS DON’T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT WRITING COPY   Most high-paid copywriters don’t want you to believe you can write copy that sells. Not Joanna Wiebe.   Joanna is a 2 time guest of the podcast and the co-founder and copywriter at Copyhackers, a company that helps you use copy to to boost your conversions while enhancing your brand, even if you don’t like writing or you’re scared of the blank white page. She’s also currently building a company called Airstory which is a note taking app designed to help you write copy 3x faster. Today you’re going to learn why you are most likely the best person to write your own copy. Key Takeaways from the Show Why it’s important write copy for 20% to 35% of your visitors, not 100% of them. What a “Competitor Content Audit” is and how you can use it to make more sales What a Value Proposition Table is and how you can build one for yourself The two sides of crafting a stellar message, and how to uncover pain points. Links / Resources Our first interview with Joanna Airstory Copy Hackers Website Free E-Book – Stellar Messages Subscribe & Review To get more awesome Ecommerce Influence content sent directly to your device and into your ears as they become available, you can easily subscribe by clicking on either one of the subscribe buttons below: Also, ratings and reviews on iTunes (hopefully 5-stars!) help us tremendously and we’re very grateful for them. We do read all of the reviews and we’ll answer your questions or comments on future episodes.