Podcasts about Elizabeth Hinton

Elizabeth Hinton along with several other esteemed academics and scholars recently agreed to serve as advisors for the Vanguard Carceral Journalism Guild. Ten incarcerated writers will be trained and platformed as part of the guild. Hinton is a Professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University and a Professor of Law at Yale Law School. She is the Co-Director of the Institute on Policing, Incarceration, and Public Safety at the Hutchins Center for African & African American Research at Harvard University, and the author of America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960's (2021), and From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America (2016). Hinton talks with Everyday Injustice about the upcoming project and her role in it. As Hinton explains: “the Vanguard Carceral Journalism Guild is something that is completely one of a kind and that it's amplifying original on the ground reporting by people who reside in confinement.” She adds, “I think one of the things that's really exciting about it is that it's not just targeting people on the outside, but it's also seeking to inform and ground conversations and movements, ideas that are happening on the inside. “Because there are intentional barriers erected between people who reside in the carceral state and those of us who live outside of it. It's really hard to get a sense of what is going on. I think most people who aren't connected to people who are incarcerated have no idea the kinds of conditions that are maintained, have no idea the kinds of violence that structures the entire system in every iota and every form. Have no idea the kinds of human rights abuses that are happening and the politics that are happening, as well as the amazing initiatives, the self activity that's going on inside prisons.” Listen as Elizabeth Hinton discusses the importance of carceral journalism and what this project will mean.

In this episode: The recent "merger" revelation and what it means The history of school district boundaries and the things they separate How and why Open Enrollment and Chapter 220 were created What we have gained from OE over the years and what we hope to gain by drawing it down Show notes: WSD merger stuff Special school board meeting to release legal opinion WISN-12 coverage and interviews The legal opinion itself Tosa 2075 Task Force materials Resource booklet Open Enrollment Data Review slide deck Policies brief Task Force final report State legislative and DPI resources LFB explanation of Open Enrollment history and processes DPI enrollment, demographic, and discipline datasets Histories of general school choice dynamics in MKE/WI come from here: John Witte, The Market Approach to Education: An Analysis of America's First Voucher Program (Princeton UP, 2001). Robert Asen, Democracy, Deliberation, and Education (Penn State UP, 2015) Noliwe Rooks, Cutting School: The Segrenomics of American Education (The New Press, 2020). Jack Dougherty, More Than One Struggle: The Evolution of Black Education Reform in Milwaukee (U of North Carolina Press, 2004). General history of spatial, educational, and economic segregation in the urban north Shep Melnick, The Crucible of Desegregation: The Uncertain Search for Educational Equality (U of Chicago Press, 2023) Ansley Erickson, Making the Unequal Metropolis: School Desegregation and Its Limits (U of Chicago Press, 2017). Carla Shedd, Unequal City: Race, Schools, and the Perception of Injustice (Russell Sage Foundation, 2015) Savannah Shange, Progressive Dystopia: Abolition, Antiblackness, and Schooling in San Francisco (Duke University Press, 2020). Mike Amezcua, Making Mexican Chicago: From Postwar Settlement to the Age of Gentrification (U of Chicago Press, 2023). Jonathan Rosa, Looking Like a Language, Sounding Like a Race: Raciolinguistic Ideologies and the Learning of Latinidad (Oxford University Press, 2019) Andrew Kahrl, The Black Tax: 150 Years of Theft, Exploitation, and Dispossession in America (U of Chicago Press, 2024) Kevin Kruse, White Flight: Atlanta and the Making of Modern Conservatism (Princeton University Press, 2005). Erica Frankenberg and Gary Orfield, eds, The Resegregation of Suburban Schools (Harvard Education Press, 2012). Elizabeth Hinton, From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime (Harvard University Press, 2016). Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor, Race for Profit: How Banks and the Real Estate Industry Undermined Black Homeownership (U of North Carolina Press, 2019). Elizabeth Popp Berman, Thinking Like an Economist: How Efficiency Replaced Equality in US Public Policy (Princeton University Press, 2022). Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law: A Forgotten History of How Our Government Segregated America (Liveright Publishing, 2017). Matt Kelly, Dividing the Public (Cornell University Press, 2024). Jerald Podair, The Strike That Changed New York: Blacks, Whites, and the Ocean Hill-Brownsville Crisis (Yale UP, 2002)

In this week's episode, Chris sits down with Elizabeth Hinton. Elizabeth is an American historian and associate professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University, as well as a Professor of Law at Yale Law School. Her research focuses on the persistence of poverty and racial inequality in the twentieth-century United States. Hinton's book “From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America” traces the rise of mass incarceration to an ironic source: the social welfare programs of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society at the height of the civil rights era. There are 80 million people in the US, or 1 in 3 Americans, that have an arrest or conviction record. Mass incarceration prevents these millions of people from fully participating in society when released. Hinton and Hyams will discuss how we got to this point in America, how the lack of job opportunities contribute to the cycle of police violence and social unrest and what policy recommendations are needed to break this cycle.

**Help support the show as we get back to making new episodes. You can donate right on our website YouGetAPodcast.com** This episode, we go back to the “naughties” and look at a conversation Oprah held about the depiction of young girls on TV, in music videos, and beyond. This featured hip-hop dancer Karrine Steffens, who had written a book called “Confessions of a Video Vixen” — as well as the singer PINK, who took on this culture in her song “Stupid Girls.” Our guests for this episode are Elizabeth Hinton of Yale, and Saida Grundy of Boston University. You Get A Podcast is hosted and executive produced by Kellie Carter Jackson, with co-host Leah Wright Rigueur. You Get A Podcast is produced by Roulette Productions. Executive Producer Jody Avirgan. Producer Nina Earnest. Artwork by Jonathan Conda. We are a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX. Your support helps foster independent, artist-owned podcasts and award-winning stories. Class dismissed!

In 1935, W. E. B. Du Bois, scholar, public intellectual, and social and political activist, published his magnum opus: Black Reconstruction in America. In it, he tackled the subject of the American Civil War and, especially, the decade or so that followed, a period known as Reconstruction. During Reconstruction it seemed, for a time, that the South and the United States as a whole, might be remade as a radically more equitable society. What was achieved during Reconstruction and why these efforts ultimately failed, is what concerns Du Bois in Black Reconstruction. He was also concerned with challenging and correcting the racist histories of Reconstruction that were prevalent in both popular and academic circles in his day. Black Reconstruction is a widely respected and celebrated book today, but many of its early readers were dismissive, perhaps none more than the academic historians who Du Bois was justifiably calling out. The American Historical Review, for its part, ignored the book entirely. No review. Well, until now. Almost a century later, the AHR just published a review of Black Reconstruction in the December 2022 issue, penned by Yale historian Elizabeth Hinton. Professor Elizabeth Hinton serves as our guide exploring W.E.B. Du Bois' Black Reconstruction. We also hear from Eric Foner, Chad Williams, Sue Mobley, and Kendra Field. Produced by History in Focus, a podcast from The American Historical Review, hosted and produced by Daniel Story, Digital Scholarship Librarian at UC Santa Cruz. Voices in this Episode Elizabeth Hinton (Associate Professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University, with a secondary appointment as Professor of Law at Yale Law School) Eric Foner (DeWitt Clinton Professor Emeritus of History at Columbia University) Chad Williams (Samuel J. and Augusta Spector Professor of History and African and African American Studies at Brandeis University) Sue Mobley (New Orleans based organizer/activist/urbanist; Director of Research at Monument Lab) Kendra Field (Associate Professor of History and Director of the Center for the Study of Race and Democracy at Tufts University; Project Historian for The Du Bois Freedom Center) Daniel Story (Host and Producer, Digital Scholarship Librarian at UC Santa Cruz)

In this episode, Neil, Natalia, and Niki discuss the history of the sleepover – and why they have become so complicated for parents today. Support Past Present on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/pastpresentpodcast Here are some links and references mentioned during this week's show:   Parents have strong feelings about sleepovers. Niki referred to this Glamour roundup of sleepovers in pop culture, and Natalia drew on this Atlantic article. We all drew on this history of slumber parties and folklore from JSTOR Daily.     In our regular closing feature, What's Making History: Natalia recommended Annie Abrams' forthcoming book, Shortchanged: How Advanced Placement Cheats Students. Neil shared Elizabeth Hinton's American Historical Review essay, “The Last Great Battle of the West.” Niki discussed Ronan Farrow's book Catch and Kill: Lies, Spies, and a Conspiracy to Protect Predators.

Patsy Rembert (Rembert's wife of 46 years, youth advocate) and Elizabeth Hinton (JC member, Professor of History, Yale University)

Sean Goode and Rebecca Thornton from Choose 180 stop by to share how to transform systems of harm and injustice - by supporting young people impacted by them as well as their own staff in doing this work. They discuss a better world where neighborhoods are resourced, generative programs are co-created, and the humanity of those accused of causing harm is centered alongside the healing of those who are harmed. Such a world is not as far off as one may think, but does require the transfer of power to those closest to the pain and a long-enough runway to have lasting effects. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal, on Twitter at @finchfrii, find Sean at @GraceNotGuilt, and Choose 180 at @ICHOOSE180   Resources Choose 180: https://choose180.org/   “A King County nonprofit raised all staff salaries to $70,000 minimum. Will more organizations follow?” by Naomi Ishisaka from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/labor-shortage-or-living-wage-shortage-one-king-county-nonprofit-is-taking-a-different-approach/   "Disparities in Wealth by Race and Ethnicity in the 2019 Survey of Consumer Finances" by Neil Bhutta, Andrew C. Chang, Lisa J. Dettling, and Joanne W. Hsu for FEDS Notes: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/disparities-in-wealth-by-race-and-ethnicity-in-the-2019-survey-of-consumer-finances-20200928.htm   “Closing the racial wealth gap requires heavy, progressive taxation of wealth” by Vanessa Williamson from The Brookings Institution: https://www.brookings.edu/research/closing-the-racial-wealth-gap-requires-heavy-progressive-taxation-of-wealth/   “The economic impact of closing the racial wealth gap” by Nick Noel, Duwain Pinder, Shelley Stewart, and Jason Wright from McKinsey & Company: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/the-economic-impact-of-closing-the-racial-wealth-gap   “An Unjust Burden: The Disparate Treatment of Black Americans in the Criminal Justice System” by Elizabeth Hinton, LeShae Henderson, and Cindy Reed for Vera Institute of Justice: https://www.vera.org/downloads/publications/for-the-record-unjust-burden-racial-disparities.pdf   “Prosecutor-funded program helps kids do a 180, avoid charges” by Sami Edge from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/prosecutor-funded-community-effort-helps-kids-do-a-180-on-jail-bound-route/   King County Prosecuting Attorney - Choose 180 Youth Program: https://kingcounty.gov/depts/prosecutor/youth-programs/choose-180.aspx   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, I'm very excited to have joining us Sean Goode, the Executive Director of Choose 180, and Rebecca Thornton, who's the Office Manager and bookkeeper for Choose 180. Thank you so much for joining us today. [00:00:50] Sean Goode: It's an honor to be here, Crystal. Thanks for the invitation. [00:00:52] Rebecca Thornton: Thank you for having us. [00:00:55] Crystal Fincher: Excellent. So as we get started here, I just want to open up with you talking about what Choose 180 does and what brought you both into this work. And we can start with you, Sean. [00:01:09] Sean Goode: Yeah. Our organization exists to transform systems that cause harm, systems of injustice, and support the young people who've been impacted by those systems. And what that looks like is we partner intentionally with folks like prosecutors to co-create programming that exists outside of the traditional criminal legal system and alleviates the need for them to continue to prosecute young people. So in practicality, it's a young person lives in a neighborhood that's overly policed, their behavior's criminalized, the police send that referral to the prosecutor - but because of our relationship with them, they get community instead of a criminal conviction. And for the young people who engage in our traditional programming, over 90% of the time, they don't return to the criminal legal system within 12 months of participating in our programming. And so that's an example of one of our many models of service, but all of them have a genesis point of partnering with systems to transform the way they administer justice and supporting young people as an outcome to help alleviate the harm that those systems cause. My brother was incarcerated as a 13-year-old boy until he was a 21-year-old man and how he was stigmatized as a problem. And yet how, when he was released, saw me beginning to engage in some of those same problematic behaviors, but saw the possibility that lived within me and was able to call that out from a dark place and show me, by the way of his light, that there was something else that I could become. [00:02:30] Crystal Fincher: And what brought you to this work, Rebecca? [00:02:33] Rebecca Thornton: About six years ago, I was looking for just some way to donate my time, because I just felt I had survived so much and that was just a way I wanted to give back. And I stumbled upon what was the 180 Program at the time. And they were like, "Hey, do you want to come and share your story at one of our workshops?" And I agreed, and I just jumped right in, and I just kept coming back. And about maybe eight months in, Sean ended up coming on and I got to watch that whole process. And then the team started to grow. And then about two years ago now next month, I came on full time as the Office Manager and bookkeeper. And I stayed with Choose 180 because of my lived experience with drugs specifically. I hold this core belief that especially young people should not be criminalized for their behavior because so much of it comes from the things that have happened to them in their lives and the circumstances in which they lived, because that's what happened to me. And I just want to give back in that way so that people don't have to take as long to turn their life around like I did. [00:03:46] Crystal Fincher: You actually made news last year for something that we don't see often, and that was for deciding to make sure everyone at Choose 180 is making at least $70,000, who's there full-time, which is a huge part of a discussion that we're having just around paying people a living wage in the first place and making sure people who are around us that we work with can also afford to live within our communities. But also particularly in the nonprofit space, where, so often, we are used to hearing about thin budgets and even thinner salaries, and there's just not that much money to go around. And this is a pursuit that people get into, not for the money, but for serving the community. How did this conversation start within Choose 180? And how did you arrive at the place where you decided to say, "You know what, everyone deserves to have a fair wage and to have the ability to live where they're working."? [00:04:47] Sean Goode: Yeah. Thanks for that question, Crystal. I think I want to start by saying we're fortunate to serve in a community where there's organizations like Collective Justice, Creative Justice, and Freedom Project, who have all done work around wage equity. And some of them have started the organization out flat, or paying already close to or living wage. And so we're fortunate to be able to have examples like that ahead of us that make the journey that we're traveling easier. And fortunately, we had a couple of our team members speak up who were asking questions about, well, how does it work around here? How do we determine what people make? And how does one get a raise? And do we do things by merit? Do we do things by a degree? And what we didn't want to do is provide any one-off answer and fix one person's situation. We wanted to go about it in a way that addressed it holistically. We convened a committee from our board to assess our compensation philosophy, and they spent time interviewing our team members and listening to their voices. And then they brought their recommendations to me. And their recommendations were many. There were things like, how do we value lived experience? How do we value college degrees? How do we value time served at the organization? But a throughline that was consistent was living wage. And I heard the report, I looked at the report, and I said, "Yeah, that sounds good, but we're at a nonprofit and we're already paying above market rate in many of these positions. So I don't know what more people want from me." And I thought the conversation was done there. I thought, at that point, I was finished and we could move on, but then we had to build a budget out for the next year. And as the story goes, one of our team members was working on their budget and I told them to dream big. And if we need to add to staff, consider what that might look like, which is where I always start budgeting - to think big. And she came back to me and said, "Well, if we're thinking about adding staff, I can't do that and not have our teammates who are currently here making less than a living wage." And then it became a back-and-forth conversation where I still didn't really get what it was I was being asked to do. And at the end of that conversation, she said, "Look, we work to support young people and their families in escaping the material conditions they're living in that are contributing to the harm that they've experienced. Could it be that we're resourcing our team to live in those same material conditions?" And that cut deep. And so - [00:07:18] Crystal Fincher: That cut deep, didn't it? [00:07:20] Sean Goode: Yeah. Yeah. And then I went to Rebecca, because she was in the office that day, and I tugged on her and I said, "Rebecca, do you ever think about buying a home for Maddie?" And Rebecca, you can go ahead and talk about what that was like for you. [00:07:33] Rebecca Thornton: Well, I laughed at him. Maddie is my daughter - she's kind of the office kid, honestly. Everyone is just in love with her - she's eight. But Sean pulled me aside and he asked me if I was able to save money or if I had plans to ever buy a house, and I laughed at him. That was my first instinct because that's never been in my plans [00:07:54] Crystal Fincher: From your end, as you're following this process, Rebecca, a lot of times we hear about this as employers and people who hire people and determine how much people get paid - we frequently hear this conversation from their perspective. But for someone who's working in that condition and you are not dictating what your salary is, but you're living there, and as you said, it was laughable to you that thinking about saving for a house, or anything like that, was a possibility. What was this conversation like as someone working for the organization? [00:08:28] Rebecca Thornton: Well, I know a lot of my coworkers were of the stance of, "Yes, we deserve this. We're going to fight for this." And I was more of Sean's thinking. I'm just so used to making below a living wage that that's kind of all I knew and kind of a core belief of all I thought I deserved. So for this to be on the table, I didn't believe it. I was like, when it's in my bank account, then I might believe it. And it was also odd because here I am, a white person in a Black-led organization. Do I deserve to make that kind of money at the same time? I don't know. There's a lot of - it gets down to all the core beliefs I have in making sure that I know that I deserve that. And it comes - I didn't have a lot of education, and I'm working on my degree and things like that. It's just, it brought up a lot of emotions in me, honestly, more than I thought it would. And I'm glad I had stronger coworkers that could keep the faith in it for me because I don't know - I was a little more pessimistic about it, I feel. [00:09:52] Crystal Fincher: But I think you get to the root of something that a lot of people face - if they're just used to something and you think this is just how it is and there's not really a possibility for it to get any better, you just kind of accept the conditions and go along with the flow. To me, it seems like there's such a synergy between conversations and beliefs that you are bringing into the community, and this conversation that you had within your organization, which is something I feel a lot of organizations need to do. And there is a tension between what they're saying their values are, what they're saying they're working for in the community, and what they're perpetuating through their practices and their budgets. We talk publicly - budgets are moral documents. They're also moral documents within nonprofit organizations and businesses. So what got you to the point, Sean, where you were like, okay, this is something that we can make happen? And how did you work through that? [00:10:50] Sean Goode: Hearing from Rebecca and another one of our co-laborers here - just, it hurt because I care deeply for our team. And then I had this moment of realization, Crystal, where I recognized the only thing getting in the way of this happening is me. And there's also holding attention of this opportunity to build wealth and I know very well, as a multiracial Black man, that the wealth gap between Black Americans and white Americans is 95 cents to the dollar. So for every nickel that Black Americans hold, white Americans hold 95 cents. One of the principal ways to close the wealth gap in our nation is through home ownership. If I am an employer that's largely employing Black and Brown people and not paying them a rate that allows them to build wealth, then I'm perpetuating a historical harm on the very people who I believe are entitled to benefit from the same system that they've suffered from for 400 plus years. [00:11:58] Crystal Fincher: I think that is so important - appreciate you being transparent about the tensions. I think that a critical part of this conversation is acknowledging that those tensions exist, talking through how you work with it. And to your credit and to your team's credit, Rebecca, the willingness to say this is possible and, hey, we believe in better and we're going to stand in this belief while you catch up. And for you, Sean, we talk about empathy and compassion. Those things, to me, are only useful as verbs. And I believe to my core that that enables people to work more effectively, to carry the message more effectively, to intervene effectively, and those in the community to see, okay, you actually mean what you're saying. It's like a bridge to build trust. And so I do want to talk about this work. And so in that context, how do you start conversations with people who start out with that belief - "Hey, someone does the crime, they do the time. And looks like that fixes the problem to me." [00:13:01] Sean Goode: What I'd love to do is this - I'd love to start back and say, hey, let's talk about slave patrols. And then let's talk about abolition, which then led to vagrancy laws, which meant that Black folks could be criminalized for standing on street corners - being unemployed because they weren't employable because the white farmers, who were no longer enslaving them, wouldn't hire them unless they could be servants again - would then be arrested. And then when they are arrested, they would be leased out as convicts, which then put them back on the very same plantations that they were supposedly liberated from. I would love to be able to dive into the prison industrial complex and talk about how for-profit prisons have driven an industry and a practice towards incarcerating people. I would love to highlight the fact that there's more Black people incarcerated today than were ever enslaved at any point of time in our country. I would love to talk about the disproportionate policing and how policing is focused in impoverished areas that are highly under-resourced and undersupported and frequently neglected, where there's not access to quality education, quality healthcare, quality schools. I would love to talk about the many depravities that are present in the places where young people aren't allowed to have behavior listened to before it's criminalized. I would love to bring all those things to the forefront, but what I know to be true is most people who don't understand this reality, are too distant from that place that - for them, that seems like history and not present. And it's difficult for them to draw a throughline. Where I do believe we can start at is a simple conversation around cause and effect. If historically, policing behavior would lead to a decrease in behavior that causes harm, then we should be seeing, year over year, a decrease of the number of people who are incarcerated. We should be seeing a decrease in violent crime. We should be seeing a decrease in property crime. If these systems were preventative measures that were persuading people away from making these types of decisions, then after all these years, it should have had an impact that demonstrates that things are getting better in that regard. Everything we look at would tell us otherwise. Either it doesn't work, or humanity is so inherently evil that no matter how much we police behavior, it'll never change. I don't believe that humanity is so inherently evil. In the work we do, the majority of the folks that we're supporting are people who are committing - whose behavior's being criminalized because they're living in poverty. If someone steals from the Goodwill, it's not because they're some sort of malicious criminal. If somebody's stealing from Target, it's not because they're looking to make some sort of substantial come-up off of what it is that they've taken. So as a result, it's upon us to begin to think outside of our traditional pathways and lean in with the lens of empathy and grace, and understand that we can't police our way out of poverty. [00:16:13] Crystal Fincher: I couldn't agree more with every single thing that you just said. So with that conversation and people going, well, okay, yeah, we see that there were problems with what we've been doing, but I still don't see what the solution is. You're talking about all this compassion stuff, and you're talking about let's treat people better and not put them in prison. What is the answer that you have and the programs that you are working on that are okay, so what is that different thing? [00:16:41] Sean Goode: The work that we do and the work that we do in community with others creates an off-ramp from the criminal legal system and an on-ramp into community where both the young person who is accused of causing harm is invited to be on a healing journey of accountability, and the person who was harmed is also made whole and invited to be on a journey where they're healing. And we've had terrific impact because we center the humanity of those that we're serving - and not a humanity that's absent of being accountable to what you've done, but a humanity that doesn't limit the person to what it is they've done and creates a pathway to what it is they can do, and then provides them with the resources they need to fully lean into that possibility. [00:17:21] Crystal Fincher: Focusing on the stopgaps, what types of programs are there and how do they compare? Because a lot of people are still, I think, having challenges contextualizing - well, yeah, recidivism rates are high, but we see what happens when, okay, someone's arrested, they're sentenced, they go to prison, and then they come out. They see something happening and they're like, "Okay, that is something." It's not as visible to people yet - what the interventions are outside of the criminal legal system that are like, okay, this is the process of healing, this is the process of justice, this is how we work to prevent further harm from happening and also work on healing people who have been harmed - which, to your point, is usually everybody involved in the scenario. What do those look like? And what are those programs? What are those processes? [00:18:21] Sean Goode: Yeah. They look like eviction moratoriums, which keep people housed and not living on the street. They look like the County buying up hotels in places that are inconvenient for some homeowners, but necessary for those who can't afford to live in a home. They look like investing in mental health services at a statewide level, which is something that we failed to do for a very long time in Washington. They look like re-examining our tax code and considering more ways to be able to raise the resources necessary to meet the needs for the collective us, instead of prioritizing the needs for those of us that have already established the foundation of wealth. They look like initiatives like Best Starts for Kids in our region that allow organizations adjacent to ours and like ours to be able to stand up innovative programs that can serve as a stopgap to alleviate some of the hurt and harm that's been caused. They look like many things similar to what it is that I'm sharing. They look like - how do we make sure we get more farmers' markets and healthy foods into neighborhoods that haven't had access to them historically? How do we make sure that people who have access to those healthy foods have the time and space to prepare them because they're not on public transit hours a day going to and from work for a less-than-a-living-wage job and picking up their kids from childcare, and then finally getting home at an odd hour where it's cheaper to buy a Happy Meal than it is to make a meal? Right? These are all contributing factors to the spread of this disease of violence. So it's so multifaceted, but also, if you're wondering and you're listening to this - well, that sounds ambitious. That sounds huge. That sounds like a wonderful utopian society, but how do we deal with what it is we're dealing with today? I'd say, just imagine for a moment, close your eyes and - picture the suburbs - picture places where you can walk to the grocery store, like a gentrified Columbia City, picture places where you have access to green spaces and parks and healthy foods. I know it seems like it's abstract when we put it in the context of underserved neighborhoods, but in neighborhoods where people are paying $1.5 and $1.8 million for houses that were initially purchased for a couple hundred thousand dollars because they were dilapidated in squalor because the areas were underinvested for decades - if we just take a minute and imagine, how do we make sure people have equal access to those type of services, then we wouldn't be having a conversation about violence at all. We'd have a conversation around how do we make sure that there's equitable distribution of services, equitable access to quality healthcare and quality foods and quality education. This is not a profound innovation that we're talking about. It is a profound effort only in the context of the fact that we've historically neglected those that have suffered, hidden them away, and hope that they disappear, and as we all should eventually benefit from a system of capitalism. We are still here. We still persevere, but we could thrive if people saw our humanity and began to make sure we had living wages. I mean, this goes right back into the wage conversation that we began with. If organizations - I was reading a book about the economics in Black community and one of the things that it stood up was that the middle class of Black folks across the country is largely comprised of people who work in social services. So we are the ones who are serving those of us who are impacted, and simultaneously impacted because the majority of our jobs don't provide a living wage that allows us to build wealth to benefit from capitalism, to build up communities that aren't living in the conditions that are causing the harm that's leading to the crime that people are complaining about because they don't want that to be present in their neighborhood. And then where are we supposed to go? [00:22:22] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. And absolutely valid and another - so many of those conversations about - as people explain the difference between Columbia City and an area that has been underinvested and under-resourced for so long - we can talk about Skyway, we can talk about a lot of different areas - it really comes down to the value that people place in those communities. To your point, about most Black people in the middle class being in the - basically serving and helping others, and that our value or people's value being tied up into their labor for others. And if you are laboring, then you have some value - not too much, but some, we'll recognize some. And if you don't, then we don't just value you. These are ultimately investment decisions based on value judgements of who deserves what and who deserves how much. And we repeatedly see and have a lot of empirical evidence about the judgements that our society has made about who is deemed worthy and who is deemed unworthy just for existing. And who has to do all of these shows of worthiness and value and labor to be considered worthy. And who just kind of gets that - because they exist. Now, kind of circling back around to Choose 180 - within Choose 180, you talked about earlier partnering with prosecutors, partnering within the system. Certainly, these are stopgaps and not the entire solution, but what do those partnerships, programs, interventions look like? [00:24:12] Sean Goode: Yeah. It begins with a genuine effort to connect with the people who are generally at the forefront of perpetuating harm, right? So the work with the Prosecuting Attorney's Office in King County goes back to 2011 when Dan Satterberg, now outgoing King County Prosecutor, was engaged with Doug Wheeler, community leader, and said, "Look, we're failing our Black and Brown children. Can you help me?" Right? And because Dan reached out to Doug - together, they created what at that time was called the 180 Program with other community leaders, and stood up an alternative that's continually alleviated the need for juvenile prosecution in our region. It begins with a willingness of those who are holding power to understand that their ability to hold power isn't going to transform the harm. It's their ability to release that power and give it back to those that put them in power, and allow them to co-create solutions that then serve the needs of those who have been impacted the most. And our existence is a manifestation of what is possible there, but it takes a lot of deconstructing of narratives. It takes a lot of trust building. It takes a lot of empathy and understanding, and it takes a lot of grace. Grace selectively applied is favoritism. And so what that means is we have to extend the same grace to prosecutors and law enforcement and court folks that we do to young people and families that we serve, because otherwise, we're just doing the same thing that law enforcement and court system and criminal legal system has done historically, which is prioritize people that they're preferential to while neglecting those that they don't care for. [00:26:00] Crystal Fincher: As the community is looking at programs that are happening through Choose 180 and the diversions that you're doing, as you're working with people to help connect them to resources, to coach them in better ways, provide better examples, and make sure they have the tools and support to sustain a different direction permanently, you talked about your success with recidivism rates. In terms of people sitting back - okay, things are broken, okay, totally not ideal. All right. Great. You have these programs. All right. How are they working in comparison to the traditional system? How do we know what you are talking about is working any better? [00:26:49] Sean Goode: Yeah. Well, Crystal, what I'm asking the community to do is give us the same runway that we've given the systems that have historically caused harm. Give us the same runway that we give the systems that historically cause harm. If we're only - we've been in practice for 10 years and have had great impact. Our systems of oppression have been in place for hundreds of years and have caused a ton of negative impact. How much of a runway do we get to prove that we can be successful? Do we get a year? Do we get two years? Do we get three years? Do we get four years maybe to stand something up for it to be proven wrong? How many iterations do we get to come up with, right? Are we allowed to have as many moments of reform - calls for reform - as law enforcement has in our nation. Historically year over year, do we get that same grace? That's what I'm asking for. If you want to stand up an alternative that's going to help deconstruct years upon years of perpetuated harm, then it's going to take more than 24 to 36 months to do that. It's going to take more than 10 years. It's going to take a generation of commitments to innovative ideas that we don't run away with the first time that they don't have the impact that we're looking for, because candidly, Crystal, if we ran away from the criminal legal system every time someone was released to the community and caused harm again, then we wouldn't be using it today at all. We wouldn't be resourcing it today at all, but we do because we believe that that can be fixed and it can be made better. Well, I'm asking folks to carry that same conviction in the community-based alternatives that are being stood up by the people who are closest to the pain points. Just like when it came to our wage conversation as an organization, the folks who are closest to the pain point understood what they needed to be healthy and whole. In community, the people who are closest to the pain point know what they need to experience safety in their community. Why don't we begin to just stand up what it is that folks are asking for and see what happens, and give it a runway like we've given to these other antiquated systems? [00:28:48] Crystal Fincher: I feel like that is a big thing that we're running into today - that we are sure we haven't had the best results, but we can change, we can fix it. While at the same time, demanding that community-based alternatives - one, present all the data that we need to see that this will fix all of the problems in order for us to consider investing in you at one-tenth of a percent that we invest in the rest of our criminal legal injustice system. Within there - certainly, goodness, you give it a 50- or 60-year runway, the change that you could see, it's hard for me to envision that change. Because if you just look on the short term, better results when it comes to reoffense and recidivism at the 12-month mark and other month marks - immediate results that are, sure, not perfect, but certainly better than the existing traditional systems. What would you say makes you most optimistic about the work that you're doing? And with this, I would just say also, Rebecca, in this question, what makes you most optimistic about the work that you're doing and the changes that you're seeing throughout the programs that you have, and the people who you're working with in the community? [00:30:16] Rebecca Thornton: Well, for me, I'm so excited that it's being talked about because it's something that I've always believed in, and I just never believed it was possible. Coming to Choose 180 and starting working full-time and being totally enmeshed into the programs and the people, I've started to look at things differently and looking at ideas differently. Things are possible if you can come together as a group and work for it and have that belief in it. You can make things happen. I've never seen that before. But I come from corporate America - there's no room for that there as well. It's been so cool to see - and that can be applied out in the community as well. If people can come together and they have the will - and like Sean said, the stamina - they can make stuff happen. But they need the tools to be able to do that as well, because I was out in the community on drugs years ago. I had no idea that change could happen for anyone. And I just think of how differently my life would've been had I had access to the things that could be possible in the 50 years that Sean is talking about. Or the things that my daughter's going to be able to have access to is just so important. My daughter - we have what's like "a broken home." There's statistics and stigma in that, right? So I've worked very hard to make sure that she sees me work hard and surround her with good people and all of that. But at the same time, there's still things in the way there. There's still stigma, right? And I just want to make sure that she knows that anything is possible. And I feel like what we're doing at Choose 180 just shows that, and it's pretty powerful. [00:32:15] Crystal Fincher: And what makes you most optimistic when you look at the work you're doing and the impact that you're having, Sean? [00:32:23] Sean Goode: I think about - brief history lesson here for some folks who might be listening. In the 1700s in Boston, there was a smallpox outbreak and there's an enslaved African American man who had established - there was a tribal cure for smallpox, a practice. And he introduced it to his enslaver, but for five years, the people of Boston refused to listen to this cure for smallpox because it was coming from an enslaved African American, from a tribal custom, because they felt like it couldn't possibly be an answer that would come from an enslaved person. It couldn't possibly be an answer. We need the richness of our white dominant medical science to be able to solve for this. And hundreds of Bostonians died because of their failure to listen to this enslaved African American man. I find hope that as a country, over the past 300 years, that we may have evolved past the point of ignoring those who are bringing solutions from nontraditional spaces, and that we may now be at a position, 300 years later, to lean in and say, "Well, if you think you have the cure, let's go ahead and give it a shot, because quite possibly your way could save lives." [00:33:59] Crystal Fincher: Amen. So I just thank you both for coming on this show, for sharing your experience and your journey and your wisdom, and just encourage people to continue to pay attention to Choose 180, get involved, support. And certainly at a neighborhood and community level, you can do these things where you're at, and that's actually the most powerful place you can activate and get involved. So please make sure that we don't just talk about Choose 180 and other organizations in the abstract, and this is what someone is doing over there, and this is what's possible over there. It is possible everywhere and exactly where you are. And help to be part of what makes that happen. Turn what's possible into what's happening. So with that, I just thank you once again for being here, and hope the listeners have a wonderful day. I thank you all for listening to Hacks & Wonks on KVRU 105.7 FM. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler with assistance from Shannon Cheng. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. Now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast - just type "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time.

Guests: Penny von Eschen and Elisabeth Anker What are we doing, exactly, rewatching the awesome movies of our childhoods, and why bother? This introductory episode lays out the point of a project like this, which is mostly nerdy and nostalgic fun, a chance to spend time with people and movies we like. But it's an oddly worthwhile thing to be thoughtful about in our politically tumultuous times, when the prevailing feeling across the spectrum seems to be that "this is not who we are, or who we ought to be." The substance of that inkling is very different on the left and on the right. But a sense of having taken a wrong turn somewhere is palpable and shared. For people of a certain age, like ourselves, who were around for the end of the cold war but too young to be fully conscious of what it all meant, the awesome movies of our childhoods helped shape our sense of what good and evil look like, of what kinds of peace are worth desiring and what kinds of violence are necessary to achieving those, of whom to trust and what to fear. In this episode we talk to two prominent experts who spend a great deal of time thinking about the way movies and popular media both shape and reflect the political imaginations of world-historical actors. These conversations lay the groundwork for understanding the world to which these movies were responding and the nature of the political work that art can do. Music: Mr. Smith, "Hellafunk" References: Rita Felski, Hooked: Art and Attachment (University of Chicago Press, 2020) Penny von Eschen, Paradoxes of Nostalgia (Duke University Press, 2022) Francis Fukuyama, The End of History and the Last Man (The New Press, 1992) Naoki Sakai, The End of Pax Americana (Duke University Press, 2022) Elisabeth Anker, Ugly Freedoms (Duke University Press, 2022). Elisabeth Anker, Orgies of Feeling: Melodrama and the Politics of Freedom (Duke University Press, 2016). Colleen Derkatch, Bounding Biomedicine (University of Chicago Press, 2016) Michael Rogin, Ronald Reagan The Movie and Other Episodes in Political Demonology (UC Press, 1988) Elizabeth Hinton, America on Fire (Liveright Press, 2021).

Part Two, in a two-part documentary follow-up to the audio drama #MATTER, spotlights community driven efforts to uproot and reimagine public safety, joined by some of the nation's leading activists, historians, and thinkers. This episode is brought to you in collaboration with ONEOPP, a social justice coalition working to end police brutality. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Part One, in a two-part documentary follow-up to the audio drama #MATTER, traces modern policing down to its roots, and considers unexamined repercussions joined by some of the nation's leading activists, historians, and thinkers. This episode is brought to you in collaboration with ONEOPP, a social justice coalition working to end police brutality. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Context is king: whether in language, ecology, culture, history, economics, or chemistry. One of the core teachings of complexity science is that nothing exists in isolation — especially when it comes to systems in which learning, memory, or emergent behaviors play a part. Even though this (paradoxically) limits the universality of scientific claims, it also lets us draw analogies between the context-dependency of one phenomenon and others: how protein folding shapes HIV evolution is meaningfully like the way that growing up in a specific neighborhood shapes educational and economic opportunity; the paths through a space of all possible four-letter words are constrained in ways very similar to how interactions between microbes impact gut health; how we make sense both depends on how we've learned and places bounds on what we're capable of seeing.Welcome to COMPLEXITY, the official podcast of the Santa Fe Institute. I'm your host, Michael Garfield, and every other week we'll bring you with us for far-ranging conversations with our worldwide network of rigorous researchers developing new frameworks to explain the deepest mysteries of the universe.This week on Complexity, we talk to Yale evolutionary biologist C. Brandon Ogbunu (Twitter, Google Scholar, GitHub) about the importance of environment to the activity and outcomes of complex systems — the value of surprise, the constraints of history, the virtue and challenge of great communication, and much more. Our conversation touches on everything from using word games to teach core concepts in evolutionary theory, to the ways that protein quality control co-determines the ability of pathogens to evade eradication, to the relationship between human artists, algorithms, and regulation in the 21st Century. Brandon works not just in multiple scientific domains but as the author of a number of high-profile blogs exploring the intersection of science and culture — and his boundaryless fluency shines through in a discussion that will not be contained, about some of the biggest questions and discoveries of our time.If you value our research and communication efforts, please subscribe to Complexity Podcast wherever you prefer to listen, rate and review us at Apple Podcasts, and/or consider making a donation at santafe.edu/give. You'll find plenty of other ways to engage with us at santafe.edu/engage.Thank you for listening!Join our Facebook discussion group to meet like minds and talk about each episode.Podcast theme music by Mitch Mignano.Follow us on social media:Twitter • YouTube • Facebook • Instagram • LinkedInDiscussed in this episode:“I do my science biographically…I find a personal connection to the essence of the question.”– C. Brandon Ogbunugafor on RadioLab"Environment x everything interactions: From evolution to epidemics and beyond"Brandon's February 2022 SFI Seminar (YouTube Video + Live Twitter Coverage)“A Reflection on 50 Years of John Maynard Smith's ‘Protein Space'”C. Brandon Ogbunugafor in GENETICS“Collective Computing: Learning from Nature”David Krakauer presenting at the Foresight Institute in 2021 (with reference to Rubik's Cube research)“Optimal Policies Tend to Seek Power”Alexander Matt Turner, Logan Smith, Rohin Shah, Andrew Critch, Prasad Tadepalli in arXiv“A New Take on John Maynard Smith's Concept of Protein Space for Understanding Molecular Evolution”C. Brandon Ogbunugafor, Daniel Hartl in PLOS Computational Biology“The 300 Most Common Words”by Bruce Sterling“The Host Cell's Endoplasmic Reticulum Proteostasis Network Profoundly Shapes the Protein Sequence Space Accessible to HIV Envelope”Jimin Yoon, Emmanuel E. Nekongo, Jessica E. Patrick, Angela M. Phillips, Anna I. Ponomarenko, Samuel J. Hendel, Vincent L. Butty, C. Brandon Ogbunugafor, Yu-Shan Lin, Matthew D. Shoulders in bioRxiv“Competition along trajectories governs adaptation rates towards antimicrobial resistance”C. Brandon Ogbunugafor, Margaret J. Eppstein in Nature Ecology & Evolution“Scientists Need to Admit What They Got Wrong About COVID”C. Brandon Ogbunugafor in WIRED“Deconstructing higher-order interactions in the microbiota: A theoretical examination”Yitbarek Senay, Guittar John, Sarah A. Knutie, C. Brandon Ogbunugafor in bioRxiv“What Makes an Artist in the Age of Algorithms?”C. Brandon Ogbunugafor in WIREDNot mentioned in this episode but still worth exploring:“Part of what I was getting after with Blackness had to do with authoring ideas that are edgy or potentially threatening. That as a scientist, you can generate ideas in the name of research, in the name of breaking new ground, that may stigmatize you. That may kick you out of the club, so to speak, because you're not necessarily following the herd.”– Physicist Stephon Alexander in an interview with Brandon at Andscape“How Afrofuturism Can Help The World Mend”C. Brandon Ogbunugafor in WIRED“The COVID-19 pandemic amplified long-standing racial disparities in the United States criminal justice system”Brennan Klein, C. Brandon Ogbunugafor, Benjamin J. Schafer, Zarana Bhadricha, Preeti Kori, Jim Sheldon, Nitish Kaza, Emily A. Wang, Tina Eliassi-Rad, Samuel V. Scarpino, Elizabeth Hinton in medRxivAlso mentioned:Simon Conway Morris, Geoffrey West, Samuel Scarpino, Rick & Morty, Stuart Kauffman, Frank Salisbury, Stephen Jay Gould, Frances Arnold, John Vervaeke, Andreas Wagner, Jennifer Dunne, James Evans, Carl Bergstrom, Jevin West, Henry Gee, Eugene Shakhnovich, Rafael Guerrero, Gregory Bateson, Simon DeDeo, James Clerk Maxwell, Melanie Moses, Kathy Powers, Sara Walker, Michael Lachmann, and many others...

In 1992, in the midst of the LA riots, Oprah moved her show to Los Angeles to tackle the ongoing fallout of the Rodney King verdict. The result? One of the most memorable - and boisterous - Oprah episodes. Special guest: Elizabeth Hinton, historian and author of “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s” Find lots more on our website — Oprahdemics.com Producer Nina Earnest, Executive Producer Jody Avirgan. Artwork by Jonathan Conda. Oprahdemics is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX. Your support helps foster independent, artist-owned podcasts and award-winning stories. If you want to support the show directly, you can do so on our website: Oprahdemics.com

We have a special guest on this episode of the Semi-Americans Podcast…drum roll…Dr. Mark Spencer, MD. Mark joins us to discuss policing in the United States. This is one of our longer episodes but we honestly could have kept talking for longer (we definitely plan to have him on an episode again in the future). Mark provides great insight to the lack of accountability with policing and how the data does not support that policing provides public safety in the traditional sense we've been taught to believe. Our hope is that this information can encourage us all to find the means to better our communities through local efforts and supporting organizations/initiatives that push for the equality of marginalized populations. Mark's Full Grand Rounds Presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1HKfWZgt2wTwitter: @semiamericansIG: @semiamericanspodcastTikTok: @semiamericanspodcastFacebook: @semiamericanspodcasthttps://linktr.ee/semiamericanspodcasthttps://www.newleaftreepros.orgCheck out these initiatives!Critical ResistanceCommon JusticeAPHAThe Marshall ProjectBrennan Center for JusticeInterrupting CriminalizationCivil Rights CorpPartners for JusticeEnd Violence CollectiveMapping Police ViolenceCheck out these books!Until We Reckon by Danielle SeredWe Do This til We Free Us Mariame KabaAre Prisons Obsolete Angela DavisFrom the War on Poverty to the War on Crime by Elizabeth Hinton

Sean Goode and Rebecca Thornton from Choose 180 stop by to share how to transform systems of harm and injustice - by supporting young people impacted by them as well as their own staff in doing this work. They discuss a better world where neighborhoods are resourced, generative programs are co-created, and the humanity of those accused of causing harm is centered alongside the healing of those who are harmed. Such a world is not as far off as one may think, but does require the transfer of power to those closest to the pain and a long-enough runway to have lasting effects. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal, on Twitter at @finchfrii, find Sean at @GraceNotGuilt, and Choose 180 at @ICHOOSE180   Resources Choose 180: https://choose180.org/   “A King County nonprofit raised all staff salaries to $70,000 minimum. Will more organizations follow?” by Naomi Ishisaka from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/labor-shortage-or-living-wage-shortage-one-king-county-nonprofit-is-taking-a-different-approach/   "Disparities in Wealth by Race and Ethnicity in the 2019 Survey of Consumer Finances" by Neil Bhutta, Andrew C. Chang, Lisa J. Dettling, and Joanne W. Hsu for FEDS Notes: https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/disparities-in-wealth-by-race-and-ethnicity-in-the-2019-survey-of-consumer-finances-20200928.htm   “Closing the racial wealth gap requires heavy, progressive taxation of wealth” by Vanessa Williamson from The Brookings Institution: https://www.brookings.edu/research/closing-the-racial-wealth-gap-requires-heavy-progressive-taxation-of-wealth/   “The economic impact of closing the racial wealth gap” by Nick Noel, Duwain Pinder, Shelley Stewart, and Jason Wright from McKinsey & Company: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-and-social-sector/our-insights/the-economic-impact-of-closing-the-racial-wealth-gap   “An Unjust Burden: The Disparate Treatment of Black Americans in the Criminal Justice System” by Elizabeth Hinton, LeShae Henderson, and Cindy Reed for Vera Institute of Justice: https://www.vera.org/downloads/publications/for-the-record-unjust-burden-racial-disparities.pdf   “Prosecutor-funded program helps kids do a 180, avoid charges” by Sami Edge from The Seattle Times: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/prosecutor-funded-community-effort-helps-kids-do-a-180-on-jail-bound-route/   King County Prosecuting Attorney - Choose 180 Youth Program: https://kingcounty.gov/depts/prosecutor/youth-programs/choose-180.aspx   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, I'm very excited to have joining us Sean Goode, the Executive Director of Choose 180, and Rebecca Thornton, who's the Office Manager and bookkeeper for Choose 180. Thank you so much for joining us today. [00:00:50] Sean Goode: It's an honor to be here, Crystal. Thanks for the invitation. [00:00:52] Rebecca Thornton: Thank you for having us. [00:00:55] Crystal Fincher: Excellent. So as we get started here, I just want to open up with you talking about what Choose 180 does and what brought you both into this work. And we can start with you, Sean. [00:01:09] Sean Goode: Yeah. Our organization exists to transform systems that cause harm, systems of injustice, and support the young people who've been impacted by those systems. And what that looks like is we partner intentionally with folks like prosecutors to co-create programming that exists outside of the traditional criminal legal system and alleviates the need for them to continue to prosecute young people. So in practicality, it's a young person lives in a neighborhood that's overly policed, their behavior's criminalized, the police send that referral to the prosecutor - but because of our relationship with them, they get community instead of a criminal conviction. And for the young people who engage in our traditional programming, over 90% of the time, they don't return to the criminal legal system within 12 months of participating in our programming. And so that's an example of one of our many models of service, but all of them have a genesis point of partnering with systems to transform the way they administer justice and supporting young people as an outcome to help alleviate the harm that those systems cause. My brother was incarcerated as a 13-year-old boy until he was a 21-year-old man and how he was stigmatized as a problem. And yet how, when he was released, saw me beginning to engage in some of those same problematic behaviors, but saw the possibility that lived within me and was able to call that out from a dark place and show me, by the way of his light, that there was something else that I could become. [00:02:30] Crystal Fincher: And what brought you to this work, Rebecca? [00:02:33] Rebecca Thornton: About six years ago, I was looking for just some way to donate my time, because I just felt I had survived so much and that was just a way I wanted to give back. And I stumbled upon what was the 180 Program at the time. And they were like, "Hey, do you want to come and share your story at one of our workshops?" And I agreed, and I just jumped right in, and I just kept coming back. And about maybe eight months in, Sean ended up coming on and I got to watch that whole process. And then the team started to grow. And then about two years ago now next month, I came on full time as the Office Manager and bookkeeper. And I stayed with Choose 180 because of my lived experience with drugs specifically. I hold this core belief that especially young people should not be criminalized for their behavior because so much of it comes from the things that have happened to them in their lives and the circumstances in which they lived, because that's what happened to me. And I just want to give back in that way so that people don't have to take as long to turn their life around like I did. [00:03:46] Crystal Fincher: You actually made news last year for something that we don't see often, and that was for deciding to make sure everyone at Choose 180 is making at least $70,000, who's there full-time, which is a huge part of a discussion that we're having just around paying people a living wage in the first place and making sure people who are around us that we work with can also afford to live within our communities. But also particularly in the nonprofit space, where, so often, we are used to hearing about thin budgets and even thinner salaries, and there's just not that much money to go around. And this is a pursuit that people get into, not for the money, but for serving the community. How did this conversation start within Choose 180? And how did you arrive at the place where you decided to say, "You know what, everyone deserves to have a fair wage and to have the ability to live where they're working."? [00:04:47] Sean Goode: Yeah. Thanks for that question, Crystal. I think I want to start by saying we're fortunate to serve in a community where there's organizations like Collective Justice, Creative Justice, and Freedom Project, who have all done work around wage equity. And some of them have started the organization out flat, or paying already close to or living wage. And so we're fortunate to be able to have examples like that ahead of us that make the journey that we're traveling easier. And fortunately, we had a couple of our team members speak up who were asking questions about, well, how does it work around here? How do we determine what people make? And how does one get a raise? And do we do things by merit? Do we do things by a degree? And what we didn't want to do is provide any one-off answer and fix one person's situation. We wanted to go about it in a way that addressed it holistically. We convened a committee from our board to assess our compensation philosophy, and they spent time interviewing our team members and listening to their voices. And then they brought their recommendations to me. And their recommendations were many. There were things like, how do we value lived experience? How do we value college degrees? How do we value time served at the organization? But a throughline that was consistent was living wage. And I heard the report, I looked at the report, and I said, "Yeah, that sounds good, but we're at a nonprofit and we're already paying above market rate in many of these positions. So I don't know what more people want from me." And I thought the conversation was done there. I thought, at that point, I was finished and we could move on, but then we had to build a budget out for the next year. And as the story goes, one of our team members was working on their budget and I told them to dream big. And if we need to add to staff, consider what that might look like, which is where I always start budgeting - to think big. And she came back to me and said, "Well, if we're thinking about adding staff, I can't do that and not have our teammates who are currently here making less than a living wage." And then it became a back-and-forth conversation where I still didn't really get what it was I was being asked to do. And at the end of that conversation, she said, "Look, we work to support young people and their families in escaping the material conditions they're living in that are contributing to the harm that they've experienced. Could it be that we're resourcing our team to live in those same material conditions?" And that cut deep. And so - [00:07:18] Crystal Fincher: That cut deep, didn't it? [00:07:20] Sean Goode: Yeah. Yeah. And then I went to Rebecca, because she was in the office that day, and I tugged on her and I said, "Rebecca, do you ever think about buying a home for Maddie?" And Rebecca, you can go ahead and talk about what that was like for you. [00:07:33] Rebecca Thornton: Well, I laughed at him. Maddie is my daughter - she's kind of the office kid, honestly. Everyone is just in love with her - she's eight. But Sean pulled me aside and he asked me if I was able to save money or if I had plans to ever buy a house, and I laughed at him. That was my first instinct because that's never been in my plans [00:07:54] Crystal Fincher: From your end, as you're following this process, Rebecca, a lot of times we hear about this as employers and people who hire people and determine how much people get paid - we frequently hear this conversation from their perspective. But for someone who's working in that condition and you are not dictating what your salary is, but you're living there, and as you said, it was laughable to you that thinking about saving for a house, or anything like that, was a possibility. What was this conversation like as someone working for the organization? [00:08:28] Rebecca Thornton: Well, I know a lot of my coworkers were of the stance of, "Yes, we deserve this. We're going to fight for this." And I was more of Sean's thinking. I'm just so used to making below a living wage that that's kind of all I knew and kind of a core belief of all I thought I deserved. So for this to be on the table, I didn't believe it. I was like, when it's in my bank account, then I might believe it. And it was also odd because here I am, a white person in a Black-led organization. Do I deserve to make that kind of money at the same time? I don't know. There's a lot of - it gets down to all the core beliefs I have in making sure that I know that I deserve that. And it comes - I didn't have a lot of education, and I'm working on my degree and things like that. It's just, it brought up a lot of emotions in me, honestly, more than I thought it would. And I'm glad I had stronger coworkers that could keep the faith in it for me because I don't know - I was a little more pessimistic about it, I feel. [00:09:52] Crystal Fincher: But I think you get to the root of something that a lot of people face - if they're just used to something and you think this is just how it is and there's not really a possibility for it to get any better, you just kind of accept the conditions and go along with the flow. To me, it seems like there's such a synergy between conversations and beliefs that you are bringing into the community, and this conversation that you had within your organization, which is something I feel a lot of organizations need to do. And there is a tension between what they're saying their values are, what they're saying they're working for in the community, and what they're perpetuating through their practices and their budgets. We talk publicly - budgets are moral documents. They're also moral documents within nonprofit organizations and businesses. So what got you to the point, Sean, where you were like, okay, this is something that we can make happen? And how did you work through that? [00:10:50] Sean Goode: Hearing from Rebecca and another one of our co-laborers here - just, it hurt because I care deeply for our team. And then I had this moment of realization, Crystal, where I recognized the only thing getting in the way of this happening is me. And there's also holding attention of this opportunity to build wealth and I know very well, as a multiracial Black man, that the wealth gap between Black Americans and white Americans is 95 cents to the dollar. So for every nickel that Black Americans hold, white Americans hold 95 cents. One of the principal ways to close the wealth gap in our nation is through home ownership. If I am an employer that's largely employing Black and Brown people and not paying them a rate that allows them to build wealth, then I'm perpetuating a historical harm on the very people who I believe are entitled to benefit from the same system that they've suffered from for 400 plus years. [00:11:58] Crystal Fincher: I think that is so important - appreciate you being transparent about the tensions. I think that a critical part of this conversation is acknowledging that those tensions exist, talking through how you work with it. And to your credit and to your team's credit, Rebecca, the willingness to say this is possible and, hey, we believe in better and we're going to stand in this belief while you catch up. And for you, Sean, we talk about empathy and compassion. Those things, to me, are only useful as verbs. And I believe to my core that that enables people to work more effectively, to carry the message more effectively, to intervene effectively, and those in the community to see, okay, you actually mean what you're saying. It's like a bridge to build trust. And so I do want to talk about this work. And so in that context, how do you start conversations with people who start out with that belief - "Hey, someone does the crime, they do the time. And looks like that fixes the problem to me." [00:13:01] Sean Goode: What I'd love to do is this - I'd love to start back and say, hey, let's talk about slave patrols. And then let's talk about abolition, which then led to vagrancy laws, which meant that Black folks could be criminalized for standing on street corners - being unemployed because they weren't employable because the white farmers, who were no longer enslaving them, wouldn't hire them unless they could be servants again - would then be arrested. And then when they are arrested, they would be leased out as convicts, which then put them back on the very same plantations that they were supposedly liberated from. I would love to be able to dive into the prison industrial complex and talk about how for-profit prisons have driven an industry and a practice towards incarcerating people. I would love to highlight the fact that there's more Black people incarcerated today than were ever enslaved at any point of time in our country. I would love to talk about the disproportionate policing and how policing is focused in impoverished areas that are highly under-resourced and undersupported and frequently neglected, where there's not access to quality education, quality healthcare, quality schools. I would love to talk about the many depravities that are present in the places where young people aren't allowed to have behavior listened to before it's criminalized. I would love to bring all those things to the forefront, but what I know to be true is most people who don't understand this reality, are too distant from that place that - for them, that seems like history and not present. And it's difficult for them to draw a throughline. Where I do believe we can start at is a simple conversation around cause and effect. If historically, policing behavior would lead to a decrease in behavior that causes harm, then we should be seeing, year over year, a decrease of the number of people who are incarcerated. We should be seeing a decrease in violent crime. We should be seeing a decrease in property crime. If these systems were preventative measures that were persuading people away from making these types of decisions, then after all these years, it should have had an impact that demonstrates that things are getting better in that regard. Everything we look at would tell us otherwise. Either it doesn't work, or humanity is so inherently evil that no matter how much we police behavior, it'll never change. I don't believe that humanity is so inherently evil. In the work we do, the majority of the folks that we're supporting are people who are committing - whose behavior's being criminalized because they're living in poverty. If someone steals from the Goodwill, it's not because they're some sort of malicious criminal. If somebody's stealing from Target, it's not because they're looking to make some sort of substantial come-up off of what it is that they've taken. So as a result, it's upon us to begin to think outside of our traditional pathways and lean in with the lens of empathy and grace, and understand that we can't police our way out of poverty. [00:16:13] Crystal Fincher: I couldn't agree more with every single thing that you just said. So with that conversation and people going, well, okay, yeah, we see that there were problems with what we've been doing, but I still don't see what the solution is. You're talking about all this compassion stuff, and you're talking about let's treat people better and not put them in prison. What is the answer that you have and the programs that you are working on that are okay, so what is that different thing? [00:16:41] Sean Goode: The work that we do and the work that we do in community with others creates an off-ramp from the criminal legal system and an on-ramp into community where both the young person who is accused of causing harm is invited to be on a healing journey of accountability, and the person who was harmed is also made whole and invited to be on a journey where they're healing. And we've had terrific impact because we center the humanity of those that we're serving - and not a humanity that's absent of being accountable to what you've done, but a humanity that doesn't limit the person to what it is they've done and creates a pathway to what it is they can do, and then provides them with the resources they need to fully lean into that possibility. [00:17:21] Crystal Fincher: Focusing on the stopgaps, what types of programs are there and how do they compare? Because a lot of people are still, I think, having challenges contextualizing - well, yeah, recidivism rates are high, but we see what happens when, okay, someone's arrested, they're sentenced, they go to prison, and then they come out. They see something happening and they're like, "Okay, that is something." It's not as visible to people yet - what the interventions are outside of the criminal legal system that are like, okay, this is the process of healing, this is the process of justice, this is how we work to prevent further harm from happening and also work on healing people who have been harmed - which, to your point, is usually everybody involved in the scenario. What do those look like? And what are those programs? What are those processes? [00:18:21] Sean Goode: Yeah. They look like eviction moratoriums, which keep people housed and not living on the street. They look like the County buying up hotels in places that are inconvenient for some homeowners, but necessary for those who can't afford to live in a home. They look like investing in mental health services at a statewide level, which is something that we failed to do for a very long time in Washington. They look like re-examining our tax code and considering more ways to be able to raise the resources necessary to meet the needs for the collective us, instead of prioritizing the needs for those of us that have already established the foundation of wealth. They look like initiatives like Best Starts for Kids in our region that allow organizations adjacent to ours and like ours to be able to stand up innovative programs that can serve as a stopgap to alleviate some of the hurt and harm that's been caused. They look like many things similar to what it is that I'm sharing. They look like - how do we make sure we get more farmers' markets and healthy foods into neighborhoods that haven't had access to them historically? How do we make sure that people who have access to those healthy foods have the time and space to prepare them because they're not on public transit hours a day going to and from work for a less-than-a-living-wage job and picking up their kids from childcare, and then finally getting home at an odd hour where it's cheaper to buy a Happy Meal than it is to make a meal? Right? These are all contributing factors to the spread of this disease of violence. So it's so multifaceted, but also, if you're wondering and you're listening to this - well, that sounds ambitious. That sounds huge. That sounds like a wonderful utopian society, but how do we deal with what it is we're dealing with today? I'd say, just imagine for a moment, close your eyes and - picture the suburbs - picture places where you can walk to the grocery store, like a gentrified Columbia City, picture places where you have access to green spaces and parks and healthy foods. I know it seems like it's abstract when we put it in the context of underserved neighborhoods, but in neighborhoods where people are paying $1.5 and $1.8 million for houses that were initially purchased for a couple hundred thousand dollars because they were dilapidated in squalor because the areas were underinvested for decades - if we just take a minute and imagine, how do we make sure people have equal access to those type of services, then we wouldn't be having a conversation about violence at all. We'd have a conversation around how do we make sure that there's equitable distribution of services, equitable access to quality healthcare and quality foods and quality education. This is not a profound innovation that we're talking about. It is a profound effort only in the context of the fact that we've historically neglected those that have suffered, hidden them away, and hope that they disappear, and as we all should eventually benefit from a system of capitalism. We are still here. We still persevere, but we could thrive if people saw our humanity and began to make sure we had living wages. I mean, this goes right back into the wage conversation that we began with. If organizations - I was reading a book about the economics in Black community and one of the things that it stood up was that the middle class of Black folks across the country is largely comprised of people who work in social services. So we are the ones who are serving those of us who are impacted, and simultaneously impacted because the majority of our jobs don't provide a living wage that allows us to build wealth to benefit from capitalism, to build up communities that aren't living in the conditions that are causing the harm that's leading to the crime that people are complaining about because they don't want that to be present in their neighborhood. And then where are we supposed to go? [00:22:22] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. And absolutely valid and another - so many of those conversations about - as people explain the difference between Columbia City and an area that has been underinvested and under-resourced for so long - we can talk about Skyway, we can talk about a lot of different areas - it really comes down to the value that people place in those communities. To your point, about most Black people in the middle class being in the - basically serving and helping others, and that our value or people's value being tied up into their labor for others. And if you are laboring, then you have some value - not too much, but some, we'll recognize some. And if you don't, then we don't just value you. These are ultimately investment decisions based on value judgements of who deserves what and who deserves how much. And we repeatedly see and have a lot of empirical evidence about the judgements that our society has made about who is deemed worthy and who is deemed unworthy just for existing. And who has to do all of these shows of worthiness and value and labor to be considered worthy. And who just kind of gets that - because they exist. Now, kind of circling back around to Choose 180 - within Choose 180, you talked about earlier partnering with prosecutors, partnering within the system. Certainly, these are stopgaps and not the entire solution, but what do those partnerships, programs, interventions look like? [00:24:12] Sean Goode: Yeah. It begins with a genuine effort to connect with the people who are generally at the forefront of perpetuating harm, right? So the work with the Prosecuting Attorney's Office in King County goes back to 2011 when Dan Satterberg, now outgoing King County Prosecutor, was engaged with Doug Wheeler, community leader, and said, "Look, we're failing our Black and Brown children. Can you help me?" Right? And because Dan reached out to Doug - together, they created what at that time was called the 180 Program with other community leaders, and stood up an alternative that's continually alleviated the need for juvenile prosecution in our region. It begins with a willingness of those who are holding power to understand that their ability to hold power isn't going to transform the harm. It's their ability to release that power and give it back to those that put them in power, and allow them to co-create solutions that then serve the needs of those who have been impacted the most. And our existence is a manifestation of what is possible there, but it takes a lot of deconstructing of narratives. It takes a lot of trust building. It takes a lot of empathy and understanding, and it takes a lot of grace. Grace selectively applied is favoritism. And so what that means is we have to extend the same grace to prosecutors and law enforcement and court folks that we do to young people and families that we serve, because otherwise, we're just doing the same thing that law enforcement and court system and criminal legal system has done historically, which is prioritize people that they're preferential to while neglecting those that they don't care for. [00:26:00] Crystal Fincher: As the community is looking at programs that are happening through Choose 180 and the diversions that you're doing, as you're working with people to help connect them to resources, to coach them in better ways, provide better examples, and make sure they have the tools and support to sustain a different direction permanently, you talked about your success with recidivism rates. In terms of people sitting back - okay, things are broken, okay, totally not ideal. All right. Great. You have these programs. All right. How are they working in comparison to the traditional system? How do we know what you are talking about is working any better? [00:26:49] Sean Goode: Yeah. Well, Crystal, what I'm asking the community to do is give us the same runway that we've given the systems that have historically caused harm. Give us the same runway that we give the systems that historically cause harm. If we're only - we've been in practice for 10 years and have had great impact. Our systems of oppression have been in place for hundreds of years and have caused a ton of negative impact. How much of a runway do we get to prove that we can be successful? Do we get a year? Do we get two years? Do we get three years? Do we get four years maybe to stand something up for it to be proven wrong? How many iterations do we get to come up with, right? Are we allowed to have as many moments of reform - calls for reform - as law enforcement has in our nation. Historically year over year, do we get that same grace? That's what I'm asking for. If you want to stand up an alternative that's going to help deconstruct years upon years of perpetuated harm, then it's going to take more than 24 to 36 months to do that. It's going to take more than 10 years. It's going to take a generation of commitments to innovative ideas that we don't run away with the first time that they don't have the impact that we're looking for, because candidly, Crystal, if we ran away from the criminal legal system every time someone was released to the community and caused harm again, then we wouldn't be using it today at all. We wouldn't be resourcing it today at all, but we do because we believe that that can be fixed and it can be made better. Well, I'm asking folks to carry that same conviction in the community-based alternatives that are being stood up by the people who are closest to the pain points. Just like when it came to our wage conversation as an organization, the folks who are closest to the pain point understood what they needed to be healthy and whole. In community, the people who are closest to the pain point know what they need to experience safety in their community. Why don't we begin to just stand up what it is that folks are asking for and see what happens, and give it a runway like we've given to these other antiquated systems? [00:28:48] Crystal Fincher: I feel like that is a big thing that we're running into today - that we are sure we haven't had the best results, but we can change, we can fix it. While at the same time, demanding that community-based alternatives - one, present all the data that we need to see that this will fix all of the problems in order for us to consider investing in you at one-tenth of a percent that we invest in the rest of our criminal legal injustice system. Within there - certainly, goodness, you give it a 50- or 60-year runway, the change that you could see, it's hard for me to envision that change. Because if you just look on the short term, better results when it comes to reoffense and recidivism at the 12-month mark and other month marks - immediate results that are, sure, not perfect, but certainly better than the existing traditional systems. What would you say makes you most optimistic about the work that you're doing? And with this, I would just say also, Rebecca, in this question, what makes you most optimistic about the work that you're doing and the changes that you're seeing throughout the programs that you have, and the people who you're working with in the community? [00:30:16] Rebecca Thornton: Well, for me, I'm so excited that it's being talked about because it's something that I've always believed in, and I just never believed it was possible. Coming to Choose 180 and starting working full-time and being totally enmeshed into the programs and the people, I've started to look at things differently and looking at ideas differently. Things are possible if you can come together as a group and work for it and have that belief in it. You can make things happen. I've never seen that before. But I come from corporate America - there's no room for that there as well. It's been so cool to see - and that can be applied out in the community as well. If people can come together and they have the will - and like Sean said, the stamina - they can make stuff happen. But they need the tools to be able to do that as well, because I was out in the community on drugs years ago. I had no idea that change could happen for anyone. And I just think of how differently my life would've been had I had access to the things that could be possible in the 50 years that Sean is talking about. Or the things that my daughter's going to be able to have access to is just so important. My daughter - we have what's like "a broken home." There's statistics and stigma in that, right? So I've worked very hard to make sure that she sees me work hard and surround her with good people and all of that. But at the same time, there's still things in the way there. There's still stigma, right? And I just want to make sure that she knows that anything is possible. And I feel like what we're doing at Choose 180 just shows that, and it's pretty powerful. [00:32:15] Crystal Fincher: And what makes you most optimistic when you look at the work you're doing and the impact that you're having, Sean? [00:32:23] Sean Goode: I think about - brief history lesson here for some folks who might be listening. In the 1700s in Boston, there was a smallpox outbreak and there's an enslaved African American man who had established - there was a tribal cure for smallpox, a practice. And he introduced it to his enslaver, but for five years, the people of Boston refused to listen to this cure for smallpox because it was coming from an enslaved African American, from a tribal custom, because they felt like it couldn't possibly be an answer that would come from an enslaved person. It couldn't possibly be an answer. We need the richness of our white dominant medical science to be able to solve for this. And hundreds of Bostonians died because of their failure to listen to this enslaved African American man. I find hope that as a country, over the past 300 years, that we may have evolved past the point of ignoring those who are bringing solutions from nontraditional spaces, and that we may now be at a position, 300 years later, to lean in and say, "Well, if you think you have the cure, let's go ahead and give it a shot, because quite possibly your way could save lives." [00:33:59] Crystal Fincher: Amen. So I just thank you both for coming on this show, for sharing your experience and your journey and your wisdom, and just encourage people to continue to pay attention to Choose 180, get involved, support. And certainly at a neighborhood and community level, you can do these things where you're at, and that's actually the most powerful place you can activate and get involved. So please make sure that we don't just talk about Choose 180 and other organizations in the abstract, and this is what someone is doing over there, and this is what's possible over there. It is possible everywhere and exactly where you are. And help to be part of what makes that happen. Turn what's possible into what's happening. So with that, I just thank you once again for being here, and hope the listeners have a wonderful day. I thank you all for listening to Hacks & Wonks on KVRU 105.7 FM. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler with assistance from Shannon Cheng. You can find me on Twitter @finchfrii, spelled F-I-N-C-H-F-R-I-I. Now you can follow Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast - just type "Hacks & Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes. Thanks for tuning in. We'll talk to you next time.

Today on Boston Public Radio we're on tape, bringing you some of our favorite conversations from recent months: Sebastian Junger speaks about his latest book, “Freedom,” which looks at the meaning of freedom in its many iterations. Junger is a journalist, author and filmmaker. Sy Montgomery returns for our monthly edition of “Afternoon Zoo.” She talks about her sympathy for the humpback whale who nearly swallowed a lobster fisherman off of Cape Cod, stand-up fathers of the animal kingdom, and the dogs who are learning to talk to their owners. Montgomery is a journalist, naturalist and a BPR contributor. Her latest book is "The Hummingbird's Gift: Wonder, Beauty and Renewal on Wings."  Michelle Singletary discusses her latest book, “What To Do With Your Money When Crisis Hits: A Survival Guide.” Singletary is a nationally syndicated columnist for The Washington Post, whose award-winning column "The Color of Money" provides insight into the world of personal finance. Michael Moss previews his new book and explains how some drug addiction experts are shifting their attention to food addiction. Moss is a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and author. His latest book is “Hooked: Food, Free Will And How The Food Giants Exploit Our Addictions.” Dr. Marcia Chatelain discusses the historic role McDonald's plays in the Black community and the origins of Black capitalism. Dr. Chatelain is a professor of history in African American studies at Georgetown University. She's the author of “Franchise: The Golden Arches in Black America,” which won a Pulitzer Prize this year for history. Elizabeth Hinton shares her research into the cycle of police and mob violence facing Black Americans, and how Black communities' responses to brutality have been characterized throughout history. Hinton is an associate professor of history in the Department of History and the Department of African American Studies at Yale. She's also a professor of law at Yale Law School. Her latest book is “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s.” Daniel Lieberman talks about his new book on the evolution of human beings and our aversion to exercise, called "Exercised: Why Something We Never Evolved To Do Is Healthy And Rewarding.” Lieberman is a professor in the Department of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University.

Yale University professor Elizabeth Hinton talks with host John Shaw about her research on poverty, racial inequality, mass incarceration, police violence and urban unrest in the U.S.

Lurie sits down with Professor of History, Law & Africana Studies at Yale, Elizabeth Hinton, to discuss police reform, protests, investing in communities and more.Get your copy of America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s!Follow Lurie Daniel Favors @LurieFavors on Twitter and listen to her live M-F, 10 a.m.-noon ET on SiriusXM, Ch. 126.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

To hear this awesome conversation go to http://patreon.com/toureshow and subscribe. For just $5 a month you get 4 Friday Patreon exclusives and the full version of our Wednesday shows and you get to help us keep making this show! Yale professor Elizabeth Hinton has written an important and powerful book about the history of Black rebellion against police repression called America On Fire. A must read. We dive deep into why we shouldn't call them riots, they're uprisings, and why it's the police being oppressive in Black communities that sparks those uprisings. Patreon.com/toureshow Instagram: @toureshow Twitter: @toure Toure Show Episode 282 Host & Writer: Touré Senior Producer: Jackie Garofano Assistant Producer: Adell Coleman Editor: Ryan Woodhall Photographers: Chuck Marcus, Shanta Covington, and Nick Karp Booker: Claudia Jean The House: DCP Entertainment Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Interview with American Historian Elizabeth Hinton from June 2021.

Elizabeth Hinton talks about her book, America on Fire: The Untold History Of Police Violence And Black Rebellion Since The 1960's. The post Elizabeth Hinton, AMERICA ON FIRE appeared first on Writer's Voice.

Sunni and Lisa are joined by Yale Historian Elizabeth Hinton to discuss  new book  AMERICA ON FIRE: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s Book description:What began in spring 2020 as local protests in response to the killing of George Floyd by Minneapolis police quickly exploded into a massive nationwide movement. Millions of mostly young people defiantly flooded into the nation's streets, demanding an end to police brutality and to the broader, systemic repression of Black people and other people of color. To many observers, the protests appeared to be without precedent in their scale and persistence. Yet, as the acclaimed historian Elizabeth Hinton demonstrates in America on Fire, the events of 2020 had clear precursors—and any attempt to understand our current crisis requires a reckoning with the recent past.Even in the aftermath of Donald Trump, many Americans consider the decades since the civil rights movement in the mid-1960s as a story of progress toward greater inclusiveness and equality. Hinton's sweeping narrative uncovers an altogether different history, taking us on a troubling journey from Detroit in 1967 and Miami in 1980 to Los Angeles in 1992 and beyond to chart the persistence of structural racism and one of its primary consequences, the so-called urban riot. Hinton offers a critical corrective: the word riot was nothing less than a racist trope applied to events that can only be properly understood as rebellions—explosions of collective resistance to an unequal and violent order. As she suggests, if rebellion and the conditions that precipitated it never disappeared, the optimistic story of a post–Jim Crow United States no longer holds.Black rebellion, America on Fire powerfully illustrates, was born in response to poverty and exclusion, but most immediately in reaction to police violence. In 1968, President Lyndon Johnson launched the “War on Crime,” sending militarized police forces into impoverished Black neighborhoods. Facing increasing surveillance and brutality, residents threw rocks and Molotov cocktails at officers, plundered local businesses, and vandalized exploitative institutions. Hinton draws on exclusive sources to uncover a previously hidden geography of violence in smaller American cities, from York, Pennsylvania, to Cairo, Illinois, to Stockton, California.The central lesson from these eruptions—that police violence invariably leads to community violence—continues to escape policymakers, who respond by further criminalizing entire groups instead of addressing underlying socioeconomic causes. The results are the hugely expanded policing and prison regimes that shape the lives of so many Americans today. Presenting a new framework for understanding our nation's enduring strife, America on Fire is also a warning: rebellions will surely continue unless police are no longer called on to manage the consequences of dismal conditions beyond their control, and until an oppressive system is finally remade on the principles of justice and equality.

This is the last episode of Season 3. When I started the season, I was motivated by the word possibilities. I was on a journey to learn the possibilities of changing systems, such as education and justice, to better serve Black families and children.For this episode, Im sharing insights from our amazing expert guests on their thoughts about reimagining a world to better serve Black children and families. In this episode you'll hear from-Aliyya Swaby and Dr. Valerie Adams-Bass from Season 3 Ep. 1 Black Children, Youth and Education in the Erat of COVID-19-Dr. Lawrence T. Brown from Season 3 Ep. 3 The Black Butterfly The Harmful Politics of race and space-Frederick Joseph from Season 3 Ep. 4 The Black Friend-Dr. Sheretta Butler Barnes from Season 3 Ep 5 Centering Black Girls VOices and Experiences: Addressin over policing and overdisciplining of Black girls-Dr. Elizabeth Hinton from Season 3 Ep. 7 America on Fire: The Untold History of Police violence and Black rebellion Since the 1960s-Kwame Mabalia and Prince Joel Makonnen from Season 3 Ep. 8 Last gate of the EmperorMusic and Editing by Manni SimonFollow us!Social media @whatisblkSign up for our newsletter to stay up to date, go to https://www.whatisblack.co.

This is the last episode of Season 3. When I started the season, I was motivated by the word possibilities. I was on a journey to learn the possibilities of changing systems, such as education and justice, to better serve Black families and children.For this episode, I'm sharing insights from our amazing expert guests on their thoughts about reimagining a world to better serve Black children and families.  In this episode you'll hear from-Aliyya Swaby and Dr. Valerie Adams-Bass from Season 3 Ep. 1 Black Children, Youth and Education in the Erat of COVID-19-Dr. Lawrence T. Brown from Season 3 Ep. 3 The Black Butterfly The Harmful Politics of race and space-Frederick Joseph from Season 3 Ep. 4 The Black Friend-Dr. Sheretta Butler Barnes from Season 3 Ep 5 Centering Black Girl's VOices and Experiences: Addressin over policing and overdisciplining of Black girls-Dr. Elizabeth Hinton from Season 3 Ep. 7 America on Fire: The Untold History of Police violence and Black rebellion Since the 1960s-Kwame Mabalia and Prince Joel Makonnen  from Season 3 Ep. 8 Last gate of the EmperorMusic and Editing by Manni SimonFollow us!Social media @whatisblkSign up for our newsletter to stay up to date, go to https://www.whatisblack.co.

Elizabeth Hinton's book America On Fire explores how aggressive policing sparked thousands of incidents of mass violence in Black communities across the United States beginning in the 1960s. NPR's Danielle Kurtzleben talks to the author about how the government's typical response to these "rebellions" — more policing — is both escalatory and inadequate. Connect:Subscribe to the NPR Politics Podcast here.Email the show at nprpolitics@npr.orgJoin the NPR Politics Podcast Facebook Group.Listen to our playlist The NPR Politics Daily Workout.Subscribe to the NPR Politics Newsletter.Find and support your local public radio station.

This week, Enzi welcomes acclaimed author Elizabeth Hinton to talk about her newest book "America On Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s," as they discuss many of the societal issues that have led to so much of what we've seen in the past 50-plus years.

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/public-policy

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/political-science

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

(7/6/21) In 1968, President Lyndon Johnson launched the “War on Crime,” sending militarized police forces into impoverished Black neighborhoods. Facing increasing surveillance and brutality, residents threw rocks and Molotov cocktails at officers, plundered local businesses and vandalized exploitative institutions. In her new book, America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s, associate professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University and professor of law at Yale Law School Elizabeth Hinton draws on exclusive sources to uncover a previously hidden geography of police brutality and murder in smaller American cities—from York, Pennsylvania to Stockton, California. Join us for a look at how we got to this pivotal moment in challenging systemic racism in this installment of Leonard Lopate at Large on WBAI.

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/law

In America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellions since the 1960s (Liveright, 2021) Dr. Elizabeth Hinton asserts the significance of Black rebellions in post-civil rights America, arguing that the riots were indeed rebellions or political acts in response to the failures and unfulfilled promises of the Civil Rights period. She investigates an overlooked trend of Black uprisings emanating from poor and working-class Black neighborhoods, towns, and cities often sparked by police terror between 1964 and 1972. In refuting the racist pathologies that community violence in response to racist policing and economic disinvestment has been assigned by commissions, politicians, liberals and conservatives alike, Hinton presents a redefinition through the analytic of rebellion that enhances our understanding of resistance to anti-Blackness and policing today. Amanda Joyce Hall is a Ph.D. Candidate in History and African American Studies at Yale University. She is writing an international history on the grassroots movement against South African apartheid during the 1970s and 1980s. She tweets from @amandajoycehall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Elizabeth Hinton... Associate Professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University and Professor of Law at Yale Law School ... talks about her new book.

The last year has seen its share of protests against policing. History shows, however, that protests actually usually lead to more policing. Elizabeth Hinton is an associate professor of history and African American studies at Yale and a professor at Yale Law School. She joins host Krys Boyd to discuss why the word “riot” is a racist trope and masks a long arm of history of over policing and neighborhood crackdowns. Her book is “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s.”

In her new book, historian Elizabeth Hinton highlights a “crucible period” of often violent rebellions in the name of the Black freedom struggle beginning in 1968. Initiated in almost every instance by police violence, the rebellions—dismissed as “riots”—have been largely written out of the history of the civil rights era. Hinton contends the period is … Continue reading The Cycle: Police Violence, Black Rebellion →

The history of policing in America can help us understand the complicated consequences of avoiding reform. Yet, the discussion over how policing should evolve, especially in communities of color, remains tense and partisan. On this week's State of Play will get history, context, and proposed solutions from interviews with historian and Associate Professor of History, Dr. Elizabeth Hinton; renowned police and diversity expert and former Deputy Sheriff, Dr. Lorenzo Boyd; Ph.D. candidate and community policing expert, DeAnza Cook; and Brookings Institution Fellow, Dr. Rashawn Ray, who will offer guidance on how we move from confrontations to positive outcomes.

Today on Boston Public Radio: We begin the show by talking with listeners about Las Vegas Raiders defensive lineman Carl Nassib coming out, and what this could mean for the world of professional sports. Trenni Kusnierek talks about former journalist Kat O'Brien's New York Times op-ed detailing her experiences with sexual assault and harassment while covering major-league baseball. She also updates us on how the Tokyo Olympics and International Olympic Committee are handling COVID-19 precautions. Kusnierek is a reporter and anchor for NBC Sports Boston, and a weekly Boston Public Radio contributor. Dr. Katherine Gergen Barnett discusses current vaccination rates in Massachusetts, and talks about the nationwide spread of the COVID-19 Delta Variant. She also answers listeners' questions. Gergen Barnett teaches in the Department of Family Medicine at Boston Medical Center and Boston University Medical School. Elizabeth Hinton shares her research into the cycle of police and mob violence facing Black Americans, and how Black communities' responses to brutality have been characterized throughout history. Hinton is an associate professor of history in the Department of History and the Department of African American Studies at Yale. She's also a professor of law at Yale Law School. Her latest book is “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s.” John King updates us on the upcoming Senate vote on whether to advance the For the People Act, and shares his thoughts on Arizona's 2021 election audit. King is CNN's Chief National Correspondent and anchor of "Inside Politics,” which airs weekdays and Sunday mornings at 8 a.m. We end the show by talking with listeners about the fate of voting rights as the Senate considers advancing a sweeping voting rights package.

Keith is joined by Dr. Elizabeth Hinton to discuss her latest book ‘America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s' including the important distinction between rebellion and rioting, the subsequent policy cycle of expanded policing, and Cairo, Illinois as an example of the devastating effects of racism on a community.  Follow Keith on Twitter: @keithlaw Follow Dr. Hinton on Twitter: @elizabhinton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In conversation with Jill Lepore, historian and bestselling and award-winning author of These Truths: A History of the United States, The Secret History of Wonder Woman, and If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future--among many other works. Leading Professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University and a Professor of Law at Yale Law School, Elizabeth Hinton is one of the country's foremost experts on policing, racial inequality, and criminalization. She is the author of From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America, and her articles and essays have been published in The Atlantic, The Nation, and Time, among other places. Professor Hinton's ''groundbreaking, deeply researched and profoundly heart-rending account'' (New York Times Book Review) of police violence inflicted upon Black Americans, America on Fire explains the history of Black rebellions as a response to police violence throughout the U.S. since the 1960s and warns that rebellions will continue until society stops calling on the police and begins changing our oppressive systems. Books are available through the Joseph Fox Bookshop (recorded 6/21/2021)

https://www.alainguillot.com/elizabeth-hinton/ Elizabeth Hinton is the author of America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s. Get the book here: https://amzn.to/3xHeFUW

The 1960s and early 1970s saw civil unrest and violence in the United States on a scale not seen since the civil war between black residents and the police but was this simply rioting or a revolution? Dan is joined by Elizabeth Hinton associate professor of history, African American studies, and law at Yale University and Yale Law School. She ​argues in her new book America on Fire that rather than being a series of criminal acts, as it was often portrayed, this violence was more akin to an uprising against an unjust and overreaching state. Elizabeth and Dan discuss the causes and consequences of these uprisings including the militarization of the police and the failure to address the fundamental social injustices which were the root causes of the unrest. This is a fascinating episode that addresses vital issues that remain extremely current. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The 1960s and early 1970s saw civil unrest and violence in the United States on a scale not seen since the civil war between black residents and the police but was this simply rioting or a revolution? Dan is joined by Elizabeth Hinton associate professor of history, African American studies, and law at Yale University and Yale Law School. She ​argues in her new book America on Fire that rather than being a series of criminal acts, as it was often portrayed, this violence was more akin to an uprising against an unjust and overreaching state. Elizabeth and Dan discuss the causes and consequences of these uprisings including the militarization of the police and the failure to address the fundamental social injustices which were the root causes of the unrest. This is a fascinating episode that addresses vital issues that remain extremely current. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Yale law professor Elizabeth Hinton joins Thom on her new book 'America On Fire: The Untold Story of Police Violence and Black Rebellion'. How did changes made to policing in the 1960s lead to a cycle of violence in poor urban communities? And how might we break that cycle?Plus- does a new Louisiana history textbook show we still have a long way to go until we reach a more equitable and just future?

On today's ST, we are discussing a new book on race relations and American history that offers a bold, thorough, and eye-opening critique of our nation's criminal justice apparatus, its police operations, and indeed its entire legal system. Our guest is the well-regarded historian Elizabeth Hinton, who is an associate professor of history and African American studies at Yale University as well as a professor of law at Yale Law School. Her book is "America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s." Per a front-page review of this work in The New York Times Book Review: "[A] groundbreaking, deeply researched, and profoundly heart-rending account of the origins of our national crisis of police violence against Black America.... 'America on Fire' is more than a brilliant guided tour through our nation's morally ruinous past. It reveals the deep roots of the current movement to reject a system of law enforcement that defines as the problem the very

DeRay, Sam, Kaya, and De'Ara cover the underreported news of the week, including Naomi Osaka, AFL-CIO's police reform report, Harlem theater, NFL's race-norming, and childbirth calculators. DeRay interviews Elizabeth Hinton about her new book "America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s". DeRay: https://www.statnews.com/2021/06/03/vbac-calculator-birth-cesarean/ Kaya: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31554110/nfl-halt-race-norming-review-black-claims-1-billion-concussion-settlement Sam: https://inthesetimes.com/article/the-afl-cio-releases-its-police-reform-report-but-doesnt-want-to-talk-about-it De'Ara: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/04/theater/national-black-theater-dasha-zhukova.html For a transcript of this episode, please visit crooked.com/podsavethepeople Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The fight over voting rights in the United States. How one historian is thinking about the George Floyd protests a year later. And, what the HIPAA federal privacy law says about vaccination records.Read more:On Sunday night, Texas Democrats staged a dramatic walkout to block a restrictive voting bill from passing — but as Amy Gardner reports, this is far from the end of the battle over voting rights in the United States.It’s been a year since the killing of George Floyd sparked a global uprising against police brutality and systemic racism. In her book “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s,” historian Elizabeth Hinton connects the Black Lives Matter protests to a long history of Black rebellions in response to police violence. As more Americans get vaccinated, misinformation is spreading about whether requiring proof of vaccination is a violation of the HIPAA federal privacy law. Allyson Chiu explains who can ask for your vaccination status and whether you have to tell them.

Jake Bonner, the protagonist of Jean Hanff Korelitz’s “The Plot,” writes a novel based on someone else’s idea. The book becomes a big hit, but Jake has a hard time enjoying it because he’s worried about getting caught. On this week’s podcast, Korelitz says that Jake’s more general anxieties about his career as a writer are relatable, despite her own success (this is her seventh novel).“Jake is all of us,” Korelitz says. “I used to regard other people’s literary careers with great curiosity. I used to have this little private parlor game: Would I want that person’s career? Would I want that person’s career? And those names have changed over the years as careers have faltered, disappeared. I’ve been publishing for a very long time, and my contemporaries in the 1990s were people with massive successes who have not been heard of now for 10, 15 years. So it’s very much a tortoise and hare kind of thing, in my own case.”Elizabeth Hinton visits the podcast to discuss her new book, “America on Fire,” a history of racial protest and police violence that reframes the civil rights struggle between the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in 1968 and the widespread demonstrations after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. Hinton writes about major uprisings, but also focuses on lesser-known examples of systemic violence against Black communities in places like York, Pa., and Cairo, Ill.“Part of the reason why the violence in both of those cities was so extreme was the deep entanglement between white vigilante groups and white power groups and the police department and political and economic elites in both cities,” Hinton says. “So in many ways, what happened, in Cairo especially, is a warning to all of us about what the consequences are when officials decide to use the police to manage the material consequences of socioeconomic exclusion and poverty.”Also on this week’s episode, Elizabeth Harris has news from the publishing world; Tina Jordan looks back at Book Review history as it celebrates its 125th anniversary this year; and Gregory Cowles and John Williams talk about what they’ve been reading. Pamela Paul is the host.Here are the books discussed in this week’s “What We’re Reading”:“Dispatches” by Michael Herr“The Emigrants” by W.G. Sebald“Lenin” by Victor Sebestyen

It is the one-year anniversary of the George Floyd murder. That murder shook up the world, leading to protests around the globe. Yet today's guest, Yale historian Dr. Elizabeth Hinton, writes in her new book, AMERICA ON FIRE: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s, that this is nothing new—that the Black rebellion against militarized police is decades old.

Sam and Emma host Yale professor of history Elizabeth Hinton to discuss her new book America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s and the importance of recasting what were once considered "riots" as rebellion, and how the original framing of those events helped elected officials stall on civil rights. And in the Fun Half: Dave Rubin continues his identity waltz to oblivion, relitigating the Trump impeachment trial, why the right loves Majorie Taylor Greene, reactionaries cannot stand the slow march of cultural acceptance of different people, does atheism have utility for the left, the cycle of punishment after incarceration, balancing communication with policy, plus your calls and IMs! Become a member at JoinTheMajorityReport.com Join the Majority Report Discord! http://majoritydiscord.com/ Get all your MR merch at our store https://shop.majorityreportradio.com/ (Merch issues and concerns can be addressed here: majorityreportstore@mirrorimage.com) The AM Quickie is now on YouTube Subscribe to the AM Quickie at https://fans.fm/amquickie Make the AMQ part of your Alexa Flash Briefing too! You can now watch the livestream on Twitch Subscribe to Discourse Blog, a newsletter and website for progressive essays and related fun partly run by AM Quickie writer Jack Crosbie. https://discourseblog.com/ Subscribe to AM Quickie writer Corey Pein’s podcast News from Nowhere, at https://www.patreon.com/newsfromnowhere Check out Matt Binder's YouTube channel! Check out The Nomiki Show live at 3 pm ET on YouTube at patreon.com/thenomikishow Check out Matt’s podcast, Literary Hangover, at Patreon.com/LiteraryHangover, or on iTunes. Check out Jamie’s podcast, The Antifada, at patreon.com/theantifada, on iTunes, or at twitch.tv/theantifada (streaming every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday at 7pm ET!) Follow the Majority Report crew on Twitter: @SamSeder @EmmaVigeland @NomikiKonst @MattLech @BF1nn

On the anniversary of George Floyd's death, Congresswoman Karen Bass discusses the movement his killing ignited and the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act which has hit roadblocks in Congress. Tamara Alrifai, Director of Strategic Communications at UNRWA, talks about her work on the frontlines helping Palestinians rebuild their lives after the conflict between Israel and Palestinian militants. Bob Costas, sportscaster, discuss the Tokyo Olympics which are set to go ahead in less than two months despite mounting opposition. Michel Martin talks with Elizabeth Hinton, Associate Professor at Yale University and author of "America on Fire", about putting this current civil rights movement into historical perspective.To learn more about how CNN protects listener privacy, visit cnn.com/privacy

On this episode, I talk with author and educator, Dr. Elizabeth Hinton, about her new book America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s. In our conversation, we discuss her new book, the historical significance of the period from the 1960s through early 1970s on current movements to address police violence, the impact of police violence on Black youth, history of Black youth leading movements for social justice, our reflections as moms and so much more.Hosted by Jacqueline Douge (@drdouge)Music by Manni SimonEdited by Manni SimonFollow us at @whatisblkSign up for our newsletter at https://www.whatisblack.co to stay up to date.

On this episode, I talk with author and educator, Dr. Elizabeth Hinton, about her new book America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s. In our conversation, we discuss her new book, the historical significance of the period from the 1960s through early 1970s on current movements to address police violence, the impact of police violence on Black youth, history of  Black youth leading movements for social justice, our reflections as moms and so much more. Hosted by Jacqueline Douge (@drdouge)Music by Manni SimonEdited by Manni SimonFollow us at @whatisblkSign up for our newsletter at https://www.whatisblack.co to stay up to date.

How do we reduce crime, especially amid calls to defund the police? While many point to rising crime rates as an indicator that more funding is needed, studies show almost no link between crime and money spent. So what’s the answer? “We know what’s required,” said Elizabeth Hinton, a professor of history and African American studies at Yale University and author of the new book “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s.” On today’s show, Hinton walks us through some of the decisions that have led to the current moment, past attempts to find a solution and things to consider in conversations around police funding as we move forward. “When people are talking about defund the police or calling for defund the police, they’re saying we want a different set of investments of our taxpayer dollars into communities.” Later on, we’ll hear from a listener who gives us insight into one of Molly’s favorite songs. Plus, an answer to the Make Me Smart Question. Here’s everything we talked about on the show today: Read Hinton’s essay on police violence in The New York Times “Cities Say They Want to Defund the Police. Their Budgets Say Otherwise.” from Bloomberg “A Year After George Floyd: Pressure to Add Police Amid Rising Crime” from The New York Times “More cops. Is it the answer to fighting crime?” from USA Today Plus, more music breakdowns! Cheers to making it through this year! Donate today to get our new Mason jar mug and “Stonktails” recipe book: marketplace.org/givesmart

How do we reduce crime, especially amid calls to defund the police? While many point to rising crime rates as an indicator that more funding is needed, studies show almost no link between crime and money spent. So what’s the answer? “We know what’s required,” said Elizabeth Hinton, a professor of history and African American studies at Yale University and author of the new book “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s.” On today’s show, Hinton walks us through some of the decisions that have led to the current moment, past attempts to find a solution and things to consider in conversations around police funding as we move forward. “When people are talking about defund the police or calling for defund the police, they’re saying we want a different set of investments of our taxpayer dollars into communities.” Later on, we’ll hear from a listener who gives us insight into one of Molly’s favorite songs. Plus, an answer to the Make Me Smart Question. Here’s everything we talked about on the show today: Read Hinton’s essay on police violence in The New York Times “Cities Say They Want to Defund the Police. Their Budgets Say Otherwise.” from Bloomberg “A Year After George Floyd: Pressure to Add Police Amid Rising Crime” from The New York Times “More cops. Is it the answer to fighting crime?” from USA Today Plus, more music breakdowns! Cheers to making it through this year! Donate today to get our new Mason jar mug and “Stonktails” recipe book: marketplace.org/givesmart

Following the murder of her father George Floyd at the hands of police, Floyd's youngest daughter, Gianna, then six, observed, "My daddy changed the world." On this one-year anniversary of Floyd's death, we hear reflections from historian Elizabeth Hinton, whose new book "America on Fire" traces the brutal police practices that engendered Black community protests from the 1960s to the present. We also talk to writer Zak Cheney-Rice, who observes that as major police reforms stall, the nation is "reckoning with a reckoning."

As we look back one year after the murder of George Floyd and the subsequent protests nationwide, author Elizabeth Hinton takes a historic perspective on the demonstrations in America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s . Hinton's book charts the history of Black rebellion across the country in reaction to police violence. She asks us to reconsider our use of the term "riot," and instead position these protests as acts of rebellion against forces of systematic racism.

Welcome to the radio magazine that brings you news, commentary and analysis from a Black Left perspective. I'm Margaret Kimberley, along with my co-host Glen Ford. Coming up: When millions marched for justice for George Floyd, corporate philanthropy put millions of dollars in the hands of Black Live Matter founders. We'll explore the effect all that money had on the Movement. It's not your grandmother's capitalism anymore. People now examine the role that race plays in the class conflict. And, Blacks in the US are less likely to battle the cops, these days, than two generations ago? We'll explore how that happened. But first – the movement for community control of the police is strongest in Chicago, where the board of Alderman is poised to put the cops under the tightest leash in the nation. Frank Chapman is executive director of the National Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression, which leads a strong community control coalition. That was Frank Chapman, of the National Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression, speaking from Chicago. The racial nature of capitalism is now better understood, largely thanks to a rejuvenated Black liberation movement. Justin Leroy is a professor of History at the University of California, at Davis, and has co-authored a book titled “Histories of Racial Capitalism.” Dr. Leroy says the US electoral system leaves the money classes, the capitalists, in power after every election. That was Justin Leroy, speaking from the University of California, Davis. After more than 20 million people protested the killing of George Floyd and other victims of police repression, last summer, corporate foundations poured millions of dollars into the accounts of Black Lives Matter founders. Has all that money eroded the revolutionary character of the Movement? We put that question to Imani Wadud, an activist and doctoral student in American Studies at the University of Kansas. That was Imani Wadud, at the University of Kansas. Author, activist and researcher Elizabeth Hinton's new book, “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion,” shows that Black urban revolts have dropped off dramatically since their peak in the early 1970s. Hinton explained why, in an interview with fellow activist and author Keeanga Taylor.

Welcome to the radio magazine that brings you news, commentary and analysis from a Black Left perspective. I’m Margaret Kimberley, along with my co-host Glen Ford. Coming up: When millions marched for justice for George Floyd, corporate philanthropy put millions of dollars in the hands of Black Live Matter founders. We’ll explore the effect all that money had on the Movement. It’s not your grandmother’s capitalism anymore. People now examine the role that race plays in the class conflict. And, Blacks in the US are less likely to battle the cops, these days, than two generations ago? We’ll explore how that happened. But first – the movement for community control of the police is strongest in Chicago, where the board of Alderman is poised to put the cops under the tightest leash in the nation. Frank Chapman is executive director of the National Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression, which leads a strong community control coalition. That was Frank Chapman, of the National Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression, speaking from Chicago. The racial nature of capitalism is now better understood, largely thanks to a rejuvenated Black liberation movement. Justin Leroy is a professor of History at the University of California, at Davis, and has co-authored a book titled “Histories of Racial Capitalism.” Dr. Leroy says the US electoral system leaves the money classes, the capitalists, in power after every election. That was Justin Leroy, speaking from the University of California, Davis. After more than 20 million people protested the killing of George Floyd and other victims of police repression, last summer, corporate foundations poured millions of dollars into the accounts of Black Lives Matter founders. Has all that money eroded the revolutionary character of the Movement? We put that question to Imani Wadud, an activist and doctoral student in American Studies at the University of Kansas. That was Imani Wadud, at the University of Kansas. Author, activist and researcher Elizabeth Hinton’s new book, “America on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion,” shows that Black urban revolts have dropped off dramatically since their peak in the early 1970s. Hinton explained why, in an interview with fellow activist and author Keeanga Taylor.

Join Elizabeth Hinton and Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor for a conversation on themes from Hinton's new book, America on Fire. From one of our top historians, American on Fire: The Untold History of Police Violence and Black Rebellion Since the 1960s is a groundbreaking story of policing and “riots” that shatters our understanding of the post–civil rights era. What began in spring 2020 as local protests in response to the killing of George Floyd by Minneapolis police quickly exploded into a massive nationwide movement. Millions of mostly young people defiantly flooded into the nation's streets, demanding an end to police brutality and to the broader, systemic repression of Black people and other people of color. To many observers, the protests appeared to be without precedent in their scale and persistence. Yet, as the acclaimed historian Elizabeth Hinton demonstrates in America on Fire, the events of 2020 had clear precursors—and any attempt to understand our current crisis requires a reckoning with the recent past. ---------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Hinton is associate professor of history and African American studies at Yale University and a professor of law at Yale Law School. The author of America on Fire and From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime, she lives in New Haven, Connecticut. Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor writes and speaks on Black politics, social movements, and racial inequality in the United States. She is author of From #BlackLivesMatter to Black Liberation and editor of How We Get Free: Black Feminism and the Combahee River Collective. Her third book, Race for Profit: How Banks and the Real Estate Industry Undermined Black Homeownership, published in 2019 by University of North Carolina Press, was a finalist for a National Book Award for nonfiction, and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for History. ---------------------------------------------------- To support our partnering indie bookstore, pre-order your signed copy here: https://www.midtownscholar.com/preorders/america-on-fire-signed ---------------------------------------------------- This event is co-sponsored by Liveright Publishing, Midtown Scholar Bookstore and Haymarket Books. Watch the live event recording: https://youtu.be/p3njQGGxK_g Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org Follow us on Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/haymarketbooks

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As states prepare to redraw their congressional districts, some will benefit from the prison-industrial complex: There are more people behind bars in America than in any country, and inmates are disproportionately Black and Latino. This week we’re replaying an interview about mass incarceration with Yale historian Elizabeth Hinton, who says minority communities suffered disproportionately from successive “wars” meant to save them — from poverty, from crime, from drugs — but which criminalized them instead.

In light of the unwarranted firing of Garrett Felber from the University of Mississippi despite his scholarship and contributions to dismantling the carceral state, a panel of activist academics discuss the implications of the situation and the relationship between the university and social movements. ---------------------------------------------------- Speakers: Garrett Felber was recently fired by the University of Mississippi despite his incredible work in the study of the racist American carceral state and his activism with the Study and Struggle project that organizes against incarceration and criminalization in Mississippi. Ruth Wilson Gilmore is Professor of Earth & Environmental Sciences, and American Studies, and Director of the Center for Place, Culture, and Politics at the City University of New York Graduate Center. Author of Golden Gulag: Prisons, Surplus, Crisis, and Opposition in Globalizing California, she has two books forthcoming in 2021: Change Everything: Racial Capitalism and the Case for Abolition and Abolition Geography. Elizabeth Hinton is Associate Professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University and Professor of Law at Yale Law School. Her research focuses on the persistence of poverty, racial inequality, and urban violence in the 20th century United States. Robin D.G. Kelley is the Distinguished Professor and Gary B. Nash Endowed Chair in U.S. History at UCLA and author of numerous books on the history of social movements in the U.S., the African Diaspora, and Africa; Black intellectuals; music and visual culture. Kiese Laymon is the Hubert H. McAlexander Chair of English at the University of Mississippi and the author of the bestselling memoir, Heavy: An American Memoir, which won the 2019 Andrew Carnegie Medal for Excellence in Nonfiction. Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor writes and speaks on Black politics, social movements, and racial inequality in the United States. She is author of From #BlackLivesMatter to Black Liberation and editor of How We Get Free: Black Feminism and the Combahee River Collective, Her most recent book, Race for Profit: How Banks and the Real Estate Industry Undermined Black Homeownership , was a finalist for a National Book Award for nonfiction, and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for History. The event will also feature solidarity statements from supporters including Dylan Rodríguez, President of American Studies Association, Sherie Randolph, and more. Watch the live event recording: https://youtu.be/olbnwpV4B38 Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org Follow us on Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/haymarketbooks

Today's episode is all about Lyndon Baines Johnson, the 36th President of the United States, and arguably its most consequential. Note we did not say best or greatest or anything overexuberant like that. But if you are talking about presidents who left their mark on American society, presidents from the past whose impact we still feel today in our daily lives, for good and for ill, you could do worse than to put Johnson at the top of your list. That was true for civil rights and race relations, especially.  For this episode, we spoke with Drs. Julian Zelizer and Elizabeth Hinton.   Together our conversations highlighted two themes: First, the extraordinary volume of legislation produced during the Johnson era and the influential legislation at that. Second, the unexpected consequences of that legislation that no one saw coming—something that could be said for the entire Johnson administration.

In Manufacturing Celebrity, Vanessa Díaz traces the complex power dynamics of the reporting and paparazzi work that fuel contemporary Hollywood and American celebrity culture. Drawing on ethnographic fieldwork, her experience reporting for Peoplemagazine, and dozens of interviews with photographers, journalists, publicists, magazine editors, and celebrities, Díaz examines the racialized and gendered labor involved in manufacturing and selling relatable celebrity personas. Celebrity reporters, most of whom are white women, are expected to leverage their sexuality to generate coverage, which makes them vulnerable to sexual exploitation and assault. Meanwhile, the predominantly male Latino paparazzi can face life-threatening situations and endure vilification that echoes anti-immigrant rhetoric. In pointing out the precarity of those who hustle to make a living by generating the bulk of celebrity media, Díaz highlights the profound inequities of the systems that provide consumers with 24/7 coverage of their favorite stars. Díaz is in conversation with Elizabeth Hinton, Associate Professor of History and African American Studies at Yale University and Professor of Law at Yale Law School. She is a historian of American inequality who is considered one of the nation’s leading experts on policing and mass incarceration. ________________________________________________ Produced by Maddie Gobbo & Michael Kowaleski Theme: "I Love All My Friends," a new, unreleased demo by Fragile Gang. Visit https://www.skylightbooks.com/event for future offerings from the Skylight Books Events team.

America incarcerates more people than any country: nearly a quarter of the world’s prison population. And U.S. inmates are disproportionately Black and Latino. How did we get here? Yale historian Elizabeth Hinton argues that minority communities suffered from successive “wars” meant to save them — from poverty, from crime, from drugs — but which criminalized them instead. She joins Will and Siva for a poignant discussion about the past and future of policing and mass incarceration in the United States.

In this episode, Natalia, Niki, and Neil discuss the recent protests over police brutality. Support Past Present on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/pastpresentpodcast Here are some links and references mentioned during this week’s show:  The murder of George Floyd by Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin has set off protests over police brutality across the country and the world. Niki referenced this Slate article, and Neil referred to historian Elizabeth Hinton’s New York Times opinion piece. Natalia cited Anne-Helen Peterson’s coverage in Buzzfeed of small-town protests all over the country, and discussed those in Eastern Long Island in particular.   In our regular closing feature, What’s Making History: Natalia shared Sugene Kwon’s digital children’s book, The Unforgettable Story of George Floyd. Neil commented on comedian Sarah Cooper’s viral “How-To” videos. Niki discussed the new season of the Slow Burn podcast, focusing on David Duke.

How a Legacy of Racist Policies and Police Brutality Contributed to the Mass Disenfranchisement of Black People The death of George Floyd, an African American man, at the hands of police officers in Minneapolis has ignited protests and conversations surrounding the mistreatment of Black Americans at the hands of the state against the backdrop of a pandemic that is disproportionately affecting Black people. Americans in every state have taken to the streets to protest police brutality and chant "Black Lives Matter." A look at the history of Black disenfranchisement, failures in leadership and policy, and the role ongoing protests will play in the general election.   Guests: Adam Serwer, Staff Writer at The Atlantic covering politics Elizabeth Hinton, incoming Professor of History, law and African-American studies at Yale and the author of “From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America” Carol Anderson, Charles Howard Candler Professor of African American Studies at Emory University and author of "White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide" Mayors, Past and Present Since George Floyd was killed by police officers in Minneapolis, demonstrations against police brutality have taken place across the United States. For mayors, listening to the protester's grievances and balancing them against the responsibility of engaging with police chiefs is a challenging task.  A conversation with Michael Tubbs, the first Black Mayor of Stockton, California, about addressing police brutality at the local level and what he hopes will come from the protests. Plus, a conversation with former San Antonio Mayor, Julián Castro. As a candidate for the Democratic nomination, Castro spoke often about the pattern of police brutality and how bias in the criminal justice system disproportionately impacts Black Americans. He reflects on his time as mayor, ending police brutality, and the future of the movement.  Guests:  Michael Tubbs, Mayor of Stockton, California Julián Castro, former Mayor of San Antonio and former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development How Demonstrations Across the U.S. have changed the Vice Presidential Selection Process A national conversation about race and the lack of police accountability has shifted the trajectory of the VP selection process for the Biden campaign. With the disparities in health care that coronavirus has underscored and the brutal killing of George Floyd, the selection process faces heightened scrutiny.  Guests:  David Siders, National Political Correspondent at Politico

How a Legacy of Racist Policies and Police Brutality Contributed to the Mass Disenfranchisement of Black People The death of George Floyd, an African American man, at the hands of police officers in Minneapolis has ignited protests and conversations surrounding the mistreatment of Black Americans at the hands of the state against the backdrop of a pandemic that is disproportionately affecting Black people. Americans in every state have taken to the streets to protest police brutality and chant "Black Lives Matter." A look at the history of Black disenfranchisement, failures in leadership and policy, and the role ongoing protests will play in the general election.   Guests: Adam Serwer, Staff Writer at The Atlantic covering politics Elizabeth Hinton, incoming Professor of History, law and African-American studies at Yale and the author of “From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America” Carol Anderson, Charles Howard Candler Professor of African American Studies at Emory University and author of "White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide" Mayors, Past and Present Since George Floyd was killed by police officers in Minneapolis, demonstrations against police brutality have taken place across the United States. For mayors, listening to the protester's grievances and balancing them against the responsibility of engaging with police chiefs is a challenging task.  A conversation with Michael Tubbs, the first Black Mayor of Stockton, California, about addressing police brutality at the local level and what he hopes will come from the protests. Plus, a conversation with former San Antonio Mayor, Julián Castro. As a candidate for the Democratic nomination, Castro spoke often about the pattern of police brutality and how bias in the criminal justice system disproportionately impacts Black Americans. He reflects on his time as mayor, ending police brutality, and the future of the movement.  Guests:  Michael Tubbs, Mayor of Stockton, California Julián Castro, former Mayor of San Antonio and former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development How Demonstrations Across the U.S. have changed the Vice Presidential Selection Process A national conversation about race and the lack of police accountability has shifted the trajectory of the VP selection process for the Biden campaign. With the disparities in health care that coronavirus has underscored and the brutal killing of George Floyd, the selection process faces heightened scrutiny.  Guests:  David Siders, National Political Correspondent at Politico

The protest movement following the death of George Floyd shows no signs of stopping. What lessons can be learned from the civil rights movement and the unrest of the 1960's? Incoming Yale Professor of history, law and African-American studies Elizabeth Hinton joins CNN Political Director David Chalian to compare and contrast these most recent protests to past movements. 

How a Legacy of Racist Policies and Police Brutality Contributed to the Mass Disenfranchisement of Black People The death of George Floyd, an African American man, at the hands of police officers in Minneapolis has ignited protests and conversations surrounding the mistreatment of Black Americans at the hands of the state against the backdrop of a pandemic that is disproportionately affecting Black people. Americans in every state have taken to the streets to protest police brutality and chant "Black Lives Matter." A look at the history of Black disenfranchisement, failures in leadership and policy, and the role ongoing protests will play in the general election.   Guests: Adam Serwer, Staff Writer at The Atlantic covering politics Elizabeth Hinton, incoming Professor of History, law and African-American studies at Yale and the author of “From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America” Carol Anderson, Charles Howard Candler Professor of African American Studies at Emory University and author of "White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide" Mayors, Past and Present Since George Floyd was killed by police officers in Minneapolis, demonstrations against police brutality have taken place across the United States. For mayors, listening to the protester's grievances and balancing them against the responsibility of engaging with police chiefs is a challenging task.  A conversation with Michael Tubbs, the first Black Mayor of Stockton, California, about addressing police brutality at the local level and what he hopes will come from the protests. Plus, a conversation with former San Antonio Mayor, Julián Castro. As a candidate for the Democratic nomination, Castro spoke often about the pattern of police brutality and how bias in the criminal justice system disproportionately impacts Black Americans. He reflects on his time as mayor, ending police brutality, and the future of the movement.  Guests:  Michael Tubbs, Mayor of Stockton, California Julián Castro, former Mayor of San Antonio and former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development How Demonstrations Across the U.S. have changed the Vice Presidential Selection Process A national conversation about race and the lack of police accountability has shifted the trajectory of the VP selection process for the Biden campaign. With the disparities in health care that coronavirus has underscored and the brutal killing of George Floyd, the selection process faces heightened scrutiny.  Guests:  David Siders, National Political Correspondent at Politico

While the United States contains less than five percent of the planet’s population, it has nearly one-quarter of the world’s prison population.  Elizabeth Hinton traces the politics and policy decisions since President Lyndon’s Johnson’s War on Poverty that created the nation’s reliance on mass incarceration. Elizabeth Hinton is Professor in the Departments of History and African and African American Studies at Harvard University.  Hinton’s research focuses on the persistence of poverty and racial inequality in the 20th-century United States.  In her award-winning book, “From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America,” Hinton examines the implementation of federal law enforcement programs beginning in the mid-1960s that made the United States home to the largest prison system in world history.  It has received numerous awards, including being named to the New York Times’s 100 notable books of 2016.

In this episode, Neil, Niki, and Natalia discuss the legacy of late bodybuilder Franco Columbu, the candidacy of Kamala Harris, and a proposal to eliminate selective testing for New York City public high schools. Support Past Present on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/pastpresentpodcast Here are some links and references mentioned during this week’s show:  Italian bodybuilding icon Franco Columbu has died. Niki referred to the film Pumping Iron, in which he appeared with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Natalia cited the importance of physician Kenneth Cooper’s 1968 book Aerobics in both mainstreaming the idea of working out and challenging the pre-eminence of weightlifting as a dominant form of exercise. Kamala Harris is running for president, and working to establish an enthusiastic base. Neil recommended Dana Goodyear’s New Yorker profile of Harris. Niki recommended Elizabeth Hinton’s book From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America. New York City is considering scrapping test-based admissions to its selective high schools, causing intense controversy. Neil cited Kyle Smith’s New York Post op-ed defending the system. Natalia and Niki both recommended historian Ellen Wu’s book Color of Success: Asian Americans and the Origins of the Model Minority, and Natalia cited historian Richard Hofstadter’s Anti-Intellectualism in American Life and historian Tom Sugrue’s Twitter thread on the New York City controversy. Niki referred to historian Jean Theoharis’s book The Strange Careers of the Jim Crow North: Segregation and the Struggle Outside the South.   In our regular closing feature, What’s Making History: Natalia recommended a new Luminary podcast about Ivanka Trump, Tabloid. Neil discussed Joshua Sokol’s New York Times piece, “Florida’s Panthers Hit With Mysterious Crippling Disorder.” Niki shared Ben Smith’s Buzzfeed News piece, “A Top White House Reporter is Taking Over the Washington Free Beacon.”

In this episode, Niki, Natalia, and Neil discuss the 1994 Crime Bill, a surge in deaths among Mount Everest climbers, and controversy over a plan to build a luxury complex at the Grand Canyon. Support Past Present on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/pastpresentpodcast Here are some links and references mentioned during this week’s show:  The 1994 Crime Bill is once again in the news, dogging Joe Biden’s candidacy. Niki referred to Michelle Alexander’s book, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. Niki also recommended a New York Times op-ed by Elizabeth Hinton, Julilly Kohler-Hausmann, and Vesla Weaver about African-American responses to the 1994 Crime Bill. Deaths among those attempting to reach the peak of Mount Everest have spiked. Neil referred to this National Geographic article about improvements in climbing gear. Natalia cited this detailed description in The New York Times of the crowded scene at the peak. Niki referred to this New Yorker article – from 1954 – about the Sherpa who first ascended Everest, and this Bitch Media article about “manless climbing.” A viral Twitter thread was the first many heard of an intense controversy over a plan to construct a luxury hotel and water park at the Grand Canyon. Natalia and Neil commented on former Reagan Administration official Steve Hanke’s Forbes article advocating the privatization of public lands.   In our regular closing feature, What’s Making History: Natalia discussed the mostly-forgotten “50-Mile Kennedy March.” Neil recommended Jeffrey Bloomer’s Slate article, “Why Everyone Thought Aladdin Had a Secret Sex Message.” Niki shared Ryan Grim and Kelly Eleveld’s HuffPost article, “Barack Obama, Harry Reid, and the Secret of ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ Repeal.”

In this interview, Elizabeth Hinton sketches the relationship between the civil rights movement, urban uprisings and the beginning of the “War on Crime,” with a focus on the Harlem Riot of 1964, and the1 965 Watts Rebellion, which was triggered by police brutality and became a key law-and-order talking point.  She then moves through a …

There are a few schools of thought regarding the origins of mass incarceration. Some blame Reagan and his” war on drugs,” while others blame Bill Clinton’s 1994 Crime Bill. Meanwhile, movies like Ava Duvernay’s 13th have drawn the direct parallels between slavery, Jim Crow, and our racist incarceration system. Each of these theories is correct, at least in part. Yes, it is undoubtedly true that mass incarceration cannot be divorced from prior systems of racial subjugation in America. And yes, Reagan and Clinton helped to perpetuate mass incarceration. But in her book From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime, our guest Elizabeth Hinton, a professor of History and African American studies at Harvard, argues that the modern roots of mass incarceration can be traced even further back, to president Lyndon B. Johnson. Johnson, a Democrat, is famous for helping usher in key Civil Rights victories, from the Voting Rights Act to the Civil Rights Act. And he spent much of his tenure fighting for low-income Americans, implementing a series of domestic policies that he called the War on Poverty. But he also pushed for harsher punishments and a larger law enforcement presence, particularly in communities of color. Under Johnson, the federal government started pouring tons of money into local law enforcement, which gave them the tools they needed to lock up millions of people. On this episode, we discuss how both parties helped perpetuate mass incarceration in the years immediately following the Civil Rights movement. We also discuss why it is that, during the 70s and 80s, black elected officials were some of the most ardent supporters of mass incarceration. Professor Hinton joins us to talk about how both Democrats and Republicans are responsible for the mass incarceration system we have today. For more information and resources please visit theappeal.org

Josh interviews Jared "Jay" Ware about prison abolitionism. Kathy and I finished our most recent Orange Is the New Black recap (Season 6 Episode 3). Jared "Jay" Ware is a prison abolitionist, freelance writer, co-host of the podcast Millennials Are Killing Capitalism and producer of the Beyond Prisons podcast. His work has been published with Shadowproof.com, The New Inquiry, In These Times, SF Bay View, Worker's World, Off Tha Record, and Hampton Institute. Students for a Democratic Society had a storied and important history in American political activism. Hopefully, most people remember the police and state violence that resulted in the deaths of Mike Brown, Tamie Rice, Eric Garner, and Sandra Brown as well as the situation in Ferguson Missouri. We have talked about Michelle Alexanders book "The New Jim Crow" many times before on this podcast. Angela Y Davis book "Are Prisons Obsolete" is a relatively quick read but very fundamental to understanding prison abolition. The site Critical Resistance is a very good starting place for investigating stories about abolition and resistance to statist power. It is also the home to "The Abolitionist" newspaper. I suspect Jay was referring to Elizabeth Hinton's book "From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime" A good place to start on the thinking of Michelle Foucault is in his book "Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison." Bryan Burrough's book "Days of Rage" discusses revolutionary violent groups in the United States. My favorite book about John Brown is "Patriotic Treason" by Evan Carton. W.E.B Dubois scathing critique of popular notions of slavery and of reconstruction was called "Black Reconstruction in America" Jay's interview with prisoners after the Lee Correctional Riot provides an important counter-narrative to the "official story" of what happened in South Carolina a few months ago. It is important to read the full list of demands around the August 21st Strike. We have covered Restorative Justice many times on the podcast, this is the first time we have talked about Transformative Justice. This is a piece from Mariame Kaba from her site Prison Culture. Some of the people Jay shouted out were: Jailhouse Lawyers Speak Kinetic Justice (Free Alabama Movement) Mariame Kaba Frantz Fanon Jackie Wang's book "Carceral Capitalism" I will try and fill in the ones I am missing over time. The DOJ Letter I was referring to was in response to the Federal First Step Act. Elizabeth Warren has been getting blasted by police, prosecutors, and correctional officers for her statement that our criminal justice system is racist (I suspect most of this is political posturing since what she said is factually correct). If you want to know more about why what she said was factually correct, you can listen to all of the early episodes of this podcast or read this overview of the evidence. The National Review article that mentions John Pfaff as an answer to Elizabeth Warren's claim can be found here. John Pfaff's response can be found in this Twitter thread. Tom Cotton's argument about Mass Incarceration was a real thing (can't make this stuff up).

Despite having less than 5 percent of the world’s population, the United States has nearly 25 percent of the world’s prison population. According to Elizabeth Hinton, an associate history professor at Harvard University, America’s prison system is unlike anything the world has ever seen. She says it’s crucial that we focus on rehabilitating inmates through educational activities inside prisons. We talked with her about the past, and the uncertain future, of prison education in America.

First: American universities minted hundreds of thousands of savvy professionals in the latter half of the 20th century. We explore how those educated, creative thinkers may have - inadvertently - caused America’s decades-long decline. Next: We talk with Harvard University professor Elizabeth Hinton about whether free education for people in prison makes sense. Then: Do you think you’re smart? Probably. But are you rational? There’s a difference between the two, and it matters more than you think.

Ify and Turquoise discuss Yegna - an Ethiopian activist band, Michael B. Jordan's inlcusion rider, remembering incarcerated women and in Myanmar for International Women's Day, Immigrant military recruits no longer receiveing expedited citizenship, Duval Patrick considers 2020 run, Harvard Prof. Elizabeth Hinton's op-ed on turning prisons into colleges, TX judge electrocutes a defendant for not answering questions, and more.

How do African Americans experience discrimination in daily life? A new poll by NPR, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation (RWJF), and the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health illuminates reports from African Americans who share their personal experiences with discrimination. With unprecedented documentation, the poll covers a range of areas — from police interaction, to job applications, to health care, to racial slurs. This Forum explored the poll results and their implications for a healthier, more equitable, and just society. This poll is the first among a series of reports that surveyed additional groups, including Latinos, Asian Americans, Native Americans, men, women, and LGBTQ adults, on their experiences with discrimination. This Forum event was presented October 24, 2017, in collaboration with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and NPR.

In this AHR Interview, we speak with Elizabeth Hinton, Assistant Professor of History and of African and African American Studies at Harvard University, about the broad field of carceral studies and the role of activism for scholars of carceral history. Hinton's 2016 book, From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America, has been reviewed widely, including in the June 2017 issue of the AHR, and was placed on the list of 100 notable books of 2016 by the New York Times. Hinton speaks with AHR editorial assistant Charlene Fletcher, who is herself completing a dissertation that addresses carceral questions. Before commencing her doctoral studies in history, Fletcher taught criminal justice at the City University of New York and worked on prisoner reentry initiatives for the New York Prison System. The AHR review of Hinton's book, "From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America," is available here: https://academic.oup.com/ahr/article-abstract/122/3/795/3862795/Elizabeth-Hinton-From-the-War-on-Poverty-to-the?redirectedFrom=fulltext

This week we share the first part of a lecture by Elizabeth Hinton delivered at IU on October 12.  In her talk, she traces the creation and rise of mass incarceration as a strategy of America’s ruling class.  Her historical research, which culminated in a book last year called “From the War on Poverty to …

Charles and Gregg have a spirited discussion about the social construct that is juvenile delinquency, the attitudes and policies that led to the rise of incarceration, and how to change this narrative and make a difference.  Materials mentioned in the episode:  "From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America," by Elizabeth Hinton: https://www.amazon.com/War-Poverty-Crime-Incarceration-America/dp/0674737237/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491455598&sr=8-1&keywords=from+the+war+on+poverty+to+the+war+on+crime "The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration," by Ta-Nehisi Coates:  https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/the-black-family-in-the-age-of-mass-incarceration/403246/ "The $3.4 Trillion Mistake: The Cost of Mass Incarceration and Criminalization, and How Justice Reinvestment Can Build a Better Future for All": http://www.maketheroad.org/report.php?ID=4355      

Why are so many Americans in prison? Right now, there are 2.3 million Americans held in US prisons. That's a HUGE number, relative to the overall US population. The US makes up just 5% of the world's population, but we hold 25% of the world's prison population. Put another way, 1 in 4 people held in prison around the world is an American citizen. And a disproportionate number of these inmates are people of color, mostly African American and Latino. Furthermore, this phenomenon of mass incarceration is a relatively recent one. In 1970 the incarceration rate in the US was roughly 150 people per 100,000. In 2017 it's well over 700 people per 100,000! How did we get here? What happened around 1970 that sent us down this path?  To answer these questions, I speak with historian Elizabeth Hinton, author of the book, From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America (Harvard University Press). She'll help us see the key public policy decisions regarding crime and criminal justice -- and the assumptions about race and poverty that shaped them -- that caused the US prison population to explode after 1970.  Show page with links, suggested readings, credits, and music at  http://inthepastlane.com/episode-022/

How did it come to pass that in the United States that we imprison more people than any nation in the world? That's right - the US comprises 5% of the world's population, but it holds 25% of the world's prison population. That's more people in US prisons than Russia, China, Iran -- you name it. How did it come to pass that we've put 2.3 million of our fellow Americans in prisons?  Well, in this first of a two-part exploration of the origins of mass incarceration, I visit the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia, PA. It's a famous prison built in the 1820s that closed in the 1970s and then later was turned into a museum. I take a tour of this fascinating institution with staff guide Lauren Bennett. I took A LOT of photographs so you'll want to check them out at www.InThePastLane.com. And keep in mind, this is part 1 of a deep dive into the history of prisons and criminal justice in American history. In part 2, I speak with historian Elizabeth Hinton about her book, From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration in America (Harvard University Press). You won't want to miss it! 

You've heard from Prasanna and Joe - now it's time to switch it up. You can find a some of the folks we heard from today on Twitter: Monica Cannon (@VoteCannon) Michael Curry (@BostonNAACP1911) Cindy Diggs (@cindydiggs) Adam Foss (@adamjohnfoss) Rahsaan Hall (@rahsaandhall) Elizabeth Hinton (@elizabhinton) Andrea James (@andreacjames) Jason Lydon (@blackandpink99) Lisa Owens (@owenslmichelle) Armani White (@BostonYAMI) Carl Williams (@carltonwilliams)