Podcast appearances and mentions of Michelle Alexander

It's a hard time to run a university: public trust is low, political pressure is high, and finances are fragile. But Daniel Diermeier, who trained as a political scientist, has Vanderbilt humming. How? He says the key is choosing magnets over wedges.   SOURCES: Daniel Diermeier, chancellor of Vanderbilt University.   RESOURCES: "Higher Ed's New Crisis Managers," by Lee Gardner (The Chronicle of Higher Education, 2026). "Professors Need to Diversify What They Teach," by Jon Shields, Yuval Avnur, and Stephanie Muravchik (Persuasion, 2025). "A Call for Constructive Engagement," (American Association of Colleges and Universities, 2025). "2020 Statement on Anthropology and Human Rights," (American Anthropological Association, 2020). The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, by Michelle Alexander (2010). "Kalven Committee: Report on the University's Role in Political and Social Action," (The University of Chicago, 1967).   EXTRAS: Sign up here to pre-screen our new video show. "'A Low Moment in Higher Education,'" by Freakonomics Radio (2024). "'If We're All in It for Ourselves, Who Are We?'" by Freakonomics Radio (2024). "Do Boycotts Work?" by Freakonomics Radio (2016). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 10th session on lyin' Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander has a living White mother and a deceased Black father. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration for her work, Gus T. anticipated this title being one of the "5 Worst Books Ever." History shows that racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission & Respectability Hypocrisy: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This week, we expose the staggering double standard at the heart of Alexander's narrative as she wades into the murky waters of respectability politics and cultural policing. Last week's review included: 1. The Cosby Contradiction & Elite Scolding: Alexander mocks the media for fawning over Bill Cosby's stern lectures to Black audiences about personal responsibility. Yet, in the very next breath, she launches into her own academic "Pound Cake speech"—scolding black youth for "raunchy" hip-hop music, "decadent" culture, and sagging britches, pathologizing the community from her elite Stanford high-horse. 2. The Muted Terror of Jon Burge: While Alexander takes considerable time to discuss Chicago's carceral system in analytical detail, she practices a complete, sinister silence regarding police commander Jon Burge. She refuses to write one mumbling word about his decades-long campaign of racist torture, systemic black misandry, and the state-sanctioned genital mutilation of Black males. 3. The Death of "Colorblindness": By completely erasing Burge's violent, targeted torture ring out of the South and West Sides of Chicago, Alexander protects her fraudulent thesis. Acknowledging that the state explicitly tortured black males to manufacture false confessions would completely obliterate her safe, mainstream notion of a neutral, "colorblind" bureaucratic system. #COINTELPRO #TheRedboneDeception# # #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 9th session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander has a living White mother and a deceased black father. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration for her work, Gus T. anticipated this title being one of the "5 Worst Books Ever." History shows that racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This book's failure to center COINTELPRO, the torture legacy of Chicago's Jon Burge, or the raw profitability of caging Black men suggests Alexander is guilty of a whole lot of lying. This week, we dismantle the sheer absurdity of Alexander's "Passing" analogy. She explicitly equates a Black worker maintaining basic professional boundaries at an office job to a light-skinned Black person cutting off their family to "pass" as White under Jim Crow. We expose how this completely irrational logic reinforces the significance of her biracial background—revealing a detached, elite perspective that pathologizes normal Black workplace survival tactics. We also pull the receipts on her consistent pattern of selective framing. Alexander repeatedly highlights interviewees who struggle with the King's English, curse, and are framed as illiterate or incompetent—inadvertently validating the exact racist stereotypes that suggest Black people don't deserve justice. Plus, we expose her total historical erasure of Chicago police commander Jon Burge, showing how her academic elite narrative completely mutes real-world structural terror. #COINTELPRO #TheRedboneDeception #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 8th session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander has a living White mother and a deceased black father. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration for her work, Gus T. anticipated this title being one of the "5 Worst Books Ever." History shows that racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This book's failure to center COINTELPRO, the torture legacy of Chicago's Jon Burge, or the raw profitability of caging Black men suggests Alexander is guilty of a whole lot of lying. Last week's review included: 1. The "Basically" Deception & The Audio Patch: Alexander claims the 10th Anniversary edition is "basically" the same book. Yet, each week listeners stumble into brand-new pages of text offering substantially alternate information from what Alexander previously scrawled. 2. Undermining Her Own Thesis: While most edits involve new content, last week revealed a rare deletion from the 10th-anniversary edition. The original version notes “racial bias in a system that purports to be colorblind.” The term purport suggests White people are not vision-restricted, but rather, willfully focused on caging infinite numbers of Black men. Removing this sentence suggests Alexander is aware of the lies she's peddling. 3. Sleeping With The Prosecutor: Alexander details the life-altering power and discretion prosecuting attorneys wield over non-white defendants. Because of this, listeners questioned why the author failed to disclose her husband Carter Stewart's extensive prosecutorial conduct, and how his career affirms the very system she critiques. #COINTELPRO #TheRedboneDeception #BillCosby #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 7th session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration, Gus T. anticipated this being one of the 5 Worst Books Ever. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This book's failure to center COINTELPRO, the torture legacy of Chicago's Jon Burge, or the raw profitability of caging Black men suggests Alexander is guilty of a whole lot of lying. Last week's review included: 1. The "Basically" Deception & The Audio Patch: Alexander claims the 10th Anniversary edition is "basically" the same book, yet we discovered she began remixing her sloppy book almost immediately. Last week, Gus noted that in 2010 she wrote that 1/3 of state inmates are violent offenders. But in the 2012 audiobook, she boosted the number to 50%. Which is it? 2. The COINTELPRO Foundation: Last week, Alexander again discussed the necessary use of police informants to snitch on drug users and violent offenders. She explained that the information they relay may or may not be true and they can easily be manipulated to lie on behalf of law enforcement. These are all hallmarks of the FBI campaign Alexander willfully omits from her original printing. 3. Flagrant Lies: Alexander again says that at some random point in time following the 1970s, most people classified as White in this part of the world disavowed the practice of Racism/White Supremacy. Again, Alexander knows this is a lie because her White relatives booted her White mom out of the family for marrying a black dude. Alexander lived in a Racially Restricted Region of Oregon in the 1980s. She's hyper-aware that Whites remain dedicated to the System of White Supremacy - as was her deceased black father. #COINTELPRO #TheRedboneDeception #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 6th session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration, Gus T. anticipated this being one of the 4 Worst Books Ever. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This book's failure to center COINTELPRO, the torture legacy of Chicago's Jon Burge, or the raw profitability of caging Black men suggests Alexander is guilty of a whole lot of lying. Last week's review included: 1. The "Basically" Deception & The Audio Patch: Alexander claims the 10th Anniversary edition is "basically" the same book, yet we discovered she began "slipping in" massive, structural data, like the $36B Clinton-era housing-to-prison strike, as early as the 2012 audio book. This is Administrative Concealing of her own original errors. She's been running a "live patch" on her scholarship for 14 years to look more "radical" than she actually is. 2. The COINTELPRO Foundation: Alexander details the prosecutorial work of the drug war involves deceiving black male defendants, the use of paid, unidentified, often coerced informants, wiretapping, and draconian sentences to compel suspects to accept plea bargains and/or plead guilty to lesser sentences. She willfully ignores that most of these tactics were hallmarks of the COINTELPRO campaign against innocent black people who were struggling to counter-racism, not peddle drugs. 3. Black People Have Never Been Free: Michelle with 1 White parent told us: “Once upon a time, it was generally understood that the police could not stop and search someone without a warrant unless there was probable cause to believe that the individual was engaged in criminal activity.” All of the book club members united to point out the insanity of such a claim. White people - including children - with or without a badge have had the authority - if not he mandate - to stop any black person, at any time, for any reason. That's what White means - The Law. Reminded Gus of Trayvon Martin and Ahmad Arbery. #COINTELPRO #TheRedboneDeception #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the 5th session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration, Gus T. anticipated this being one of the 5 Worst Books Ever. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This book's failure to center COINTELPRO, the torture legacy of Chicago's Jon Burge, or the raw profitability of caging Black men suggests Alexander is guilty of a whole lot of lying. Last week's review included: 1. The "Basically" Deception & The Audio Patch: Alexander claims the 10th Anniversary edition is "basically" the same book, yet we discovered she began "slipping in" massive, structural data, like the $36B Clinton-era housing-to-prison strike, as early as the 2012 audio book. This is Administrative Concealing of her own original errors. She's been running a "live patch" on her scholarship for 14 years to look more "radical" than she actually is. 2. The COINTELPRO Foundation: Alexander details the prosecutorial work of the drug war involves deceiving black male defendants, the use of paid, unidentified, often coerced informants, wiretapping, and draconian sentences to compel suspects to accept plea bargains and/or plead guilty to lesser sentences. She willfully ignores that most of these tactics were hallmarks of the COINTELPRO campaign against innocent black people who were struggling to counter-racism, not peddle drugs. 3. Black People Have Never Been Free: Michelle with 1 White parent told us: “Once upon a time, it was generally understood that the police could not stop and search someone without a warrant unless there was probable cause to believe that the individual was engaged in criminal activity.” All of the book club members united to point out the insanity of such a claim. White people - including children - with or without a badge have had the authority - if not he mandate - to stop any black person, at any time, for any reason. That's what White means - The Law. Reminded Gus of Trayvon Martin and Ahmad Arbery. #TheRedboneDeception #COINTELPRO #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the f study fourth session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration, Gus T. anticipated this being one of the 5 Worst Books Ever. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: A serious exploration of prisons and Racism must account for the systemic forces that built them. This book's failure to center COINTELPRO, the torture legacy of Chicago's Jon Burge, or the raw profitability of caging Black men suggests a deliberate obfuscation of the facts. Last week's review included: 1. The New Deal Falsification: Alexander claims Black people "benefited disproportionately" from FDR's New Deal. This is factually incorrect. Historical records from the NAACP and others confirm the program largely excluded Black people from minimum wage increases and Social Security by exempting domestic and agricultural sectors—where 65% of Black workers were employed. 2. Alexander says the "general public typically traces the death of Jim Crow to Brown v. Board of Education." This is not the "death" of the System of White Supremacy and is a part of Alexander's greater pattern of willfully ignoring facts. Alexander does not itemize what evidence she used to asses the views of the 1954 "general public" nor does the admit the years of widespread violent, White resistance to implementing this court decision. 3. Redlining & Economic Terrorism: While Alexander notes the New Deal was "rife with discrimination," she avoids the term White Supremacy. She omits that these federal policies were the genesis of redlining, effectively mandating Black exclusion from the human right to quality housing. 4. Omission of COINTELPRO: Alexander mentions the White Citizens' Councils but ignores the FBI's COINTELPRO operation. This federal program functioned simultaneously to "neutralize" Black leaders and organizations, contributing directly to the unjust incarceration of black people. #COINTELPRO #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

From Krista: On April 4, 1967, Martin Luther King Jr. gave a speech at Riverside Church in New York City called “A Time to Break Silence.” This is often referred to as his “Beyond Vietnam” Speech. His own allies criticized it as a risky departure from a focus on civil rights. But Dr. King had never seen his calling confined to those two words. The Vietnam War needed to end, he believed, and he needed to say that plain. And in the waging of this war — and all of its consequences for people at home, especially the poor — he saw an underlying crisis that threatened the very soul of our nation. On that same date this year, the 59th anniversary of this speech, hundreds gathered again at Riverside for reflection, song, and a reading of portions of the speech. It was drafted by Dr. King's friend and comrade Vincent Harding, a beloved former On Being guest, and many of his friends and family joined this year. None of the words of this speech is as famous as the sentence “I have a dream.” This speech altogether gives voice to the less remembered and heeded evolution of the vision of Dr. King and Vincent Harding and others. It invokes the work that endures beyond leaders and events of the day, and that can be neglected at our peril if too many of us too narrowly focus our imaginations and creativity and callings on what transfixes and demoralizes in the moment. It calls for a “revolution of values” in the face of glaring contrasts of poverty and wealth and the human cost of a world order that settles differences with wars. That our world is broken, it tells us, should come as no surprise. There were deep moral and spiritual underpinnings to the events of 59 years ago, which we did not acknowledge, much less have risen to as a nation. A line from this speech seems directly aimed at our ears and our hearts: “We are now faced with the fact, my friends, that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now.” What are the callings now, finally, for us to pick up in creating the world we want to inhabit in the beyond of this moment of great peril and an equal magnitude of possibility? This is a conversation with two human beings who loved Vincent Harding and whom he loved and formed: Michelle Alexander and Lucas Johnson. You do not need to have heard or read the speech to follow this conversation, but here are links to do so if you wish: Hear the speech, as recorded in 1959, in full. Read the speech in full here. Listen to Krista's original conversation with Vincent Harding here.  Find an excellent transcript of this show, edited by humans, on our show page.  Sign yourself and others up for The Pause to be on our mailing list for all things On Being and to receive Krista's monthly Saturday newsletter, including a heads up on new episodes, special offerings, recommendations, and event invitations. Michelle Alexander is a civil rights lawyer, legal scholar, and bestselling author of The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. She is currently a Scholar in Residence at Union Theological Seminary, where she is preparing to launch Spirit of Justice, a new organization dedicated to nurturing the spiritual lives of those committed to justice. Learn more at spiritofjustice.org Lucas Johnson is an organizer and public theologian, who cultivates space for the spiritual transformation that brings about beloved community. He is currently traveling the United States, evoking stories about the movements that expanded American democracy and raising the question ”Is America possible?” in this 250th year since the Declaration of Independence. Find him at lucasjohnson.online. If you would like to invite Lucas to your congregation or organization to explore the personal stories of democratic revival, please learn about the Storytelling Tour here. This event was produced by a new project at Union Theological Seminary called Into the Crowd, which brings nourishing stories of faith into our broader public life. Into the Crowd is led by Casey Donahue and funded by Lilly Endowment Inc.  Special thanks to the amazing team of people that made the event at Riverside Church possible, including Casey Donahue, Kym Allen, Rev. Adriene Thorne, Jacob Shmid, Okera Correia, and saxophonist Langston Hughes II, whose exquisite performance of “Precious Lord” opened this episode. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the second study session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration, Gus T. anticipates this being one of the 5 Worst Books Ever. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. Deception by Omission: Any book that claims to seriously explore prisons and Racism, yet fails to include COINTELPRO, Chicago's Jon Burge, or the profitability of caging black dudes is deliberately lying to readers. Last week's review included: 1. Alexander told readers that "most people in America" no longer believe in racial discrimination. No footnotes, no citations, no evidence to support such a lie. 2. Alexander flagrantly lies to readers by suggesting that White people were considering ending prisons in the 1970s. She deliberately omits the 1971 Attica prison rebellion as well as the 1978 case of 15-year-old Willie Bosket - where New York Governor Hugh Carey changed laws to allow children to be tried as adults. 3. Alexander mentions the resilience of her White mom, but redacts her racial classification. She brags about being a proud African American woman, but conceals that half her genetic material comes from a Suspected Race Soldier. 4. Alexander briefly discusses the "conspiracy theory" of some people thinking the CIA deliberately sold drugs to black people to decimate the population. She "emphasizes" that there's no evidence to support this conclusion while not mentioning Gary Webb's work in the body of the text. She doesn't even cite his book in the footnotes. #COINTELPRO # #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – [http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS) Cash App: [https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS) CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the second study session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Despite 15 years of institutional celebration, Gus T. anticipates this being one of the **10 Worst Books Ever**. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. **Deception by Omission**: Any book that claims to seriously explore prisons and Racism, yet fails to include COINTELPRO, Chicago's Jon Burge, or the profitability of caging black dudes is deliberately lying to readers. Last week's review included: 1. The 10th Anniversary Preface: We analyzed Alexander's claim that the book was a "slow success," despite its eventual and consistent promotion by the System. 2. **Black Misandry**: We thanked Alexander for mentioning that she's often asked why she focused on the caging of black males exclusively - echoing the routine hostility and/or resistance to discussing black males as Victims of White Supremacy. 3. The "**We**" Trap: We examined Alexander's use of the pronoun "we," which lumps Victims of White Supremacy and Racists into one general collective, masking the reality of who is doing the caging. 4. The Skip Gates Incident: We corrected the record on the 2009 arrest of Dr. Henry Louis Gates and the White response that forced President Obama to "recalibrate" his assessment of the arresting White officer. [#](https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/youngblackandunemployed?__cft__%5B0%5D=AZb57Zk1ZON0oeYgTwPNaitXKqPw8RCfDeMlXNPRMRrSKdWFl5fQkr5JyGCcuzlQV29GKDDGQbcHZYwmqLi-Jf3dbxRQCzJAY5sJBqwPO40MStCtrBaa5pnjeogwYJVvQ0SFj61a5_8w5HUSm2oCOOaf&__tn__=q)CowBell #Oregon #MarthasVineyard #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – **[http://paypal.me/TheCOWS](http://paypal.me/TheCOWS)** Cash App: **[https://cash.app/$TheCOWS](https://cash.app/$TheCOWS)** CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

The Katherine Massey Book Club @ The C.O.W.S. hosts the debut study session on Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration In the Age of Colorblindness. Alexander is a non-white female with one White parent and one non-white parent. Her book has been celebrated for about 15 years as a seminal work on the System of White Supremacy and the US carceral system. Gus T. has not read this book nor spoken a word to Ms. Alexander. However, based on the title and what I've learned about the text from others, I've already branded this number 6 on The 10 Worst Books Ever listing. Racists generally do not promote literature that provides an accurate understanding of the System of White Supremacy. This book is massively deceptive and deliberately so. Any book that claims to seriously explore prisons and Racism, yet fails to include COINTELPRO, Chicago's Jon Burge or the profitability of caging black dudes is deliberately lying to readers. The nature of Alexander's deception should be glaring to any black people who read books about Racism or prisons - which is few black people. For example, a work that claims to interrogate Racist prisons uses the term "White Supremacy" 7 times. The phrase "Affirmative Action" is in this work 65 times, and she doesn't even inform readers that White Woman benefited most from this janky program. #COINTELPRO #TheCOWS17Years INVEST in The COWS – http://paypal.me/TheCOWS Cash App: https://cash.app/$TheCOWS CALL IN NUMBER: 720.716.7300 CODE 564943#

Three public health professionals join Dr. Huntley for a conversation that starts with one of the questions we all get asked but don't always have a great answer for. When someone outside the field asks what public health actually is, what do you say? Alexandra Piotrowski, epidemiologist and founder of Piat Public Health, Dr. Sarah Hartzell, behavioral health researcher and advocate, and Michelle Alexander, public health advocate and quality compliance professional, each bring a distinct lens. Together they explore storytelling as a public health tool, the mental health workforce shortage, senior loneliness, and why arming people with the right language creates ripples far beyond the conversation.   Resources ▶️ Join the PHEC Podcast Community ▶️ Visit the PHEC Podcast Show Notes ▶️ DrCHHuntley, Public Health & Epidemiology Consulting

In Episode 323 of the Everyday Injustice podcast, host David Greenwald sits down with Eric Morrison-Smith, Executive Director of the Alliance for Boys and Men of Color, for a wide-ranging conversation on criminal justice reform, systemic inequality, and the urgent need to rethink how society responds to harm. The discussion traces Morrison-Smith's personal journey into advocacy, from his early experiences as a college athlete to a political awakening shaped by the deaths of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown and the broader movement for racial justice. Morrison-Smith describes how his initial exposure to structural analysis—particularly through Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow—shifted his understanding from individual responsibility to systemic causation. That shift ultimately led him into organizing, policy work, and leadership in a statewide network advancing anti-racist reforms. His trajectory underscores a central theme of the episode: meaningful change requires not only personal commitment but also a deep engagement with the institutional frameworks that shape outcomes across education, policing, and economic opportunity. A significant portion of the conversation focuses on youth justice, including efforts to end “endless probation” for young people in California. Morrison-Smith explains how prolonged system involvement often worsens long-term outcomes, reinforcing cycles of instability rather than promoting rehabilitation. He highlights firsthand accounts from incarcerated youth and emphasizes the importance of clear pathways out of supervision, noting that hope and a defined endpoint are critical to any meaningful reform effort. The episode also explores broader policy initiatives, including campaigns to reduce reliance on punitive systems, expand community-based responses to crises, and address the root causes of violence—particularly intimate partner violence and economic instability. Morrison-Smith argues for a dual strategy of dismantling harmful institutions while investing in “life-affirming” alternatives, from youth employment programs to community-led safety initiatives. As the political climate shifts toward more punitive rhetoric, the conversation highlights both the challenges and the necessity of continuing reform efforts grounded in equity, accountability, and systemic transformation.

"We are still dealing with a system which tolerates rampant abuse of accused people." — Emily Galvin AlmanzaBack in April 2024, we interviewed Thelton Henderson, one of the first African American federal judges in America. What disturbed me about our conversation was that even though Henderson grew up in the late Jim Crow era, he didn't seem to think that America is a profoundly more just place now than it was back then. Today's guest clerked for Judge Henderson, and her new book suggests he's right.Emily Galvin Almanza is a public defender turned activist, and The Price of Mercy is her data-driven indictment of a criminal justice system that, as she puts it, "tolerates rampant abuse of accused people, tolerates the blatantly racist application of the law, and tolerates a total lack of transparency." According to Almanza, the numbers are damning: 80% of cases are misdemeanors. 80% of people prosecuted are poor enough to need a public defender. 70% of people in jail haven't been convicted—they just can't afford bail. California's gang database was 99% people of color, she says, and famously included literal babies listed as having "admitted their gang affiliation."And here's both the good and bad news: crime is actually down. If you're under 50, she notes, you're living through the safest period of your lifetime. The solutions aren't mysterious either—housing reduces arrest rates by 80%, after-school programs cut youth violent crime in half. That's all good news for us. But it remains bad for those being unjustifiably prosecuted. We just lack the political will to implement what works. And as Galvin Almanza points out, this isn't a federal issue: 87% of prisoners are in jail on state charges. Change happens at the local level—DAs, sheriffs, state legislatures. The fixes, she says, are realizable. We just need the collective political will. That's the price of mercy in America today.About the GuestEmily Galvin Almanza is Executive Director of Partners for Justice and teaches at Stanford Law School. A former public defender, she clerked for Judge Thelton Henderson. Her new book is The Price of Mercy: Unfair Trials, a Violent System, and a Public Defender's Search for Justice in America (2026).ReferencesPeople mentioned:●      Thelton Henderson was one of the first African American federal judges in America, a civil rights pioneer for whom Galvin Almanza clerked.●      Michelle Alexander, author of The New Jim Crow, blurbed the book. Galvin Almanza agrees "without hesitation" that we're living in a new Jim Crow system.●      Alec Karakatsanis coined the term "copaganda" for media narratives that undermine smarter criminal justice solutions.●      Clara Shortridge Foltz was a 19th-century lawyer who coined the phrase "free and equal justice" and pioneered the public defender system.●      Andrew Ferguson of GW University appeared on the show recently with a book warning about surveillance.Key statistics from the book:●      80% of cases in the system are misdemeanors—trespassing, driving without a license, fare evasion.●      80% of people prosecuted are poor enough to be assigned a public defender.●      70% of people in jail haven't been convicted—they're awaiting trial and can't afford bail.●      87% of prisoners are there on state charges, not federal—making this a local issue.●      Every year of incarceration shaves two years off a person's expected lifespan.●      Being incarcerated cuts a person's expected lifetime earnings in half.●      Giving an unhoused person housing reduces their chances of future arrest by 80%.●      After-school programs can reduce youth involvement in violent crime by 50%.Concepts discussed:●      Cash bail is a $2 billion per year industry in America. Most civilized countries don't allow you to buy your freedom back from the government.●      "Failure to protect" laws criminalize women who are present while an abusive partner also abuses their child—charging victims as perpetrators.●      Self-defense laws were "designed with two men fighting in an alley in mind"—making them nearly useless for abused women who fight back.●      Gang databases in California were 99% people of color and included babies listed as having "admitted their gang affiliation."About Keen On AmericaNobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.WebsiteSubstackYouTubeApple PodcastsSpotifyChapters:(00:00) - Introduction: Thelton Henderson (02:22) - Has anything changed since the 1960s? (03:31) - Why isn't there more outrage? (05:46) - Michelle Alexander and the New Jim Crow (08:52) - Why is the system this way? (10:49) - Democrats vs. Republicans on criminal justice (13:14) - Breaking the cycle of poverty and criminalization (16:53) - Crime is actually going down (19:15) - Peeing on your stoop is a sex crime (19:59) - Women in the system: failure to protect (23:09) - Moving past punishment (26:06) - Nobody wants to marginalize the police (28:16) - Black Lives Matter and the march toward justice (29:32) - The Minneapolis killings (33:04) - Two Americas: Epstein and cash bail (39:10) - Can technology help? (41:20) - The price of mercy

Every time a Black person is killed, the lie arrives faster than the facts.He had a gun. He was high. She was threatening.In this alternative episode of When Killers Get Caught, Brittany Ransom steps away from a traditional case to examine a pattern that stretches from Emmett Till to the present day and why the phrase “they're killing Americans now” is landing as confirmation, not concern, for Black Americans and other marginalized communities.This episode explores how state violence has historically been justified through dehumanization, fear, and selective citizenship. From Indigenous displacement and slavery to policing, internment, mass detention, and modern use-of-force narratives.Drawing on history, law, and the warnings of James Baldwin, this episode asks a difficult but necessary question: Who is recognized as fully human, and when does injustice finally “count”?This is not about partisanship. It's about citizenship, power, and the cost of a system that teaches itself how to look away.Content warning: This episode discusses state violence, racism, and historical trauma.Sources for this episode include U.S. Supreme Court decisions, federal legislation, Department of the Interior reports, and the work of James Baldwin, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz, Michelle Alexander, Erika Lee, and other historians and legal scholars.Follow and join the conversation:

This episode digs into the real history behind Thanksgiving—far beyond the feel-good myth. We look at Indigenous civilizations before Columbus, what actually happened with the Pilgrims, how the holiday was invented, and how land theft became policy. It's direct, factual, and mixed with humor to make the truth easier to take in. If you want a clearer, more honest understanding of the holiday, this is the episode to hear.introIndigenous Life Before ColumbusThe Pilgrims and the First ThanksgivingHow Thanksgiving Became a National HolidayLand, Laws and the Illusion of GenerosityMusic by Loghan LongoriaFollow us on instagram: Sergio Novoa My Limited View PodSources & References• Cahokia: A Pre-Columbian American City – Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History.Overview of the largest urban center in North America before European arrival, showing the complexity and scale of Native civilizations.• Beginner's Guide to Pre-Columbian Civilizations – Native Americans Today.Covers widespread agriculture, trade networks, mound-building societies, and political structures that existed long before 1492.Pilgrims, Wampanoag & the Thanksgiving Myth• This Land Is Their Land by David J. Silverman (2019).Definitive modern history of the Wampanoag and the creation of the Thanksgiving myth, including alliances, conflicts, and how the holiday was reshaped over time.• Mayflower by Nathaniel Philbrick.Detailed account of the Pilgrims' arrival, early relations with Native nations, and the decades of tension and war that followed.• The Rediscovery of America by Ned Blackhawk (2023).Reframes U.S. history through Indigenous experiences and explains how Native peoples shaped the nation's political and cultural development.Land Theft, Forced Removal & U.S. Policy• Indian Removal Act (1830) – Encyclopedia Britannica.Explains the federal policy that authorized the forced relocation of Indigenous nations, leading to mass death and the Trail of Tears.• Dawes Act (1887) – U.S. Library of Congress & National Archives summaries.Shows how communal tribal lands were broken into individual plots, resulting in the loss of millions of acres to settlers and the federal government.• General Allotment Policies – National Archives.Additional documentation on how land “exchange” policies functioned as large-scale dispossession.Historical Context for Disease, Population Loss & Colonization• American Indian Demographic History – Journal of Interdisciplinary History.Research on population decline due to epidemics introduced by Europeans.• 1491 by Charles C. Mann.Not a primary source but a widely referenced synthesis of archaeological and historical work on pre-Columbian societies and post-contact disease impact.Wider Context: Slavery, Inequality & Structural Power• Stamped from the Beginning by Ibram X. Kendi.Helps understand how racial hierarchies and myths were built into American law, culture, and historical narratives.• The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander.Connects historical systems of racial control to modern structures, supporting the episode's theme of how myths mask deeper inequalities.

The Return of Jim Crow in AmericaAre we witnessing a new era of racial segregation and systemic discrimination? This video examines how modern policies—from mass incarceration and voter suppression to economic and housing inequality—mirror the Jim Crow laws of the past.We trace the history of Jim Crow from its 19th-century origins to its legal end in the 1960s, then uncover today's realities: racialized policing, felony disenfranchisement, restrictive voting laws, environmental racism, and widening education gaps. Civil-rights attorneys, historians, and activists call this the “New Jim Crow,” a term popularized by Michelle Alexander to describe the ongoing struggle for racial justice.Join us as we connect the dots between past and present, exposing how structural racism continues to shape America's democracy. Whether you're a student, activist, or concerned citizen, this deep dive will give you the facts, data, and historical context you need to understand and challenge racial inequality today.✊

THIS EPISODE In this episode, Rob and Vinnie begin a discussion of Jesus and the poor. They respond to the assertion that Jesus said, "The poor you will always have." They do so by looking at the OT context for this quote and argue that the people of God are called to be advocates for a just society in which "there shall be no poor among you" (Deut 15:4). What does this mean for the Church?  Rob recommended:  Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow Bryan Stevenson, Just Mercy Vinnie also noted: Tim Keller, Generous Justice    FOLLOW THE PODCAST Subscribe to be notified of our new episodes (each Monday).  Want to help us expand the Gospel of the Kingdom? Leave a review, “like” the podcast, or share it with others. CONNECT WITH DETERMINETRUTH MINISTRIES The Determinetruth Podcast is a ministry of Determinetruth Ministries. We offer free resources to equip pastors, leaders, and the body of Christ in the US and worldwide for service in the kingdom of God. You can visit us online at www.determinetruth.com Check out our YouTube Library, where we have even more content! SUPPORT DETERMINETRUTH MINISTRIES Determinetruth is a non-profit 501(c)(3), and relies completely on the financial support of our partners around the world.  If you would like to make a tax-deductible donation and help partner with us, please VISIT US HERE     Please "follow" this podcast and give a review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Your review will go a long way toward helping others find this podcast. Then share it with others so that we can get the word of the Gospel of the Kingdom to more people!   We continue to refuse to hide these podcasts behind a paywall. We can only do this if those of you who have been blessed by them and can afford to give ($5, $10, $25, or $1million or more/month) do so. You can give a tax-deductible contribution by following this link.     Good news: the determinetruth App: If you wish to view these podcasts on your smartphone through the Determinetruth app simply download the “tithe.ly church” app on your smartphone. As it downloads you will be asked “What church do you want to connect with”—insert “determinetruth” as the church name you wish to follow (and Mesa as the city if needed). Then you will be asked if you want the tithe.ly logo or the Determinetruth logo—choose the Determinetruth logo. Once it finishes installing, you will be good to go.   Finally, we just want to say thank you for listening in and supporting the work of determinetruth. If you have any questions that you would like us to address, we would love to hear them. Use the contact page on Determinetruth.com If you have been blessed by these episodes, we want to encourage you to make sure you follow this podcast, share it with others, and post a review. By posting a review you make it easier for others to find the podcast on Google searches. If you would like to have Rob and/or Vinnie speak at your church or organization in person or via Zoom, please let us know by filling out the contact info on the Contact me tab on the determinetruth.com site. If you have questions that you would like addressed in future episodes, you may submit them in the Contact me tab on this site.

Send us a textThis year marks the 15-year anniversary of the first publication of Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow. The text was praised as challenging the post-racial ethos that rose after the election of Obama by presenting a compelling analysis of mass incarceration driven by anti-black racism creating a permanent under caste in American, akin to the Jim Crow system of the South. While praised as a bible for liberal criminal justice reform advocates, many have questioned the book's limitations and the limited result of the criminal justice reform movement the text spawned. In the episode, Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle director of public policy Dayvon Love and Director of Research Lawrence Grandpre reflect on the legacy of the New Jim Crow, arguing that despite the author intention, the text has been used to focus reform on non-violent drug offenders and cost savings because the Left's inability to directly address their own anxieties around working class Black communities. Despite the book's argument around negative perceptions of Black communities being at the heart of mass incarceration and Democratic Party acquiescence to these super predator stereotypes, the failure of the text to use the lessons of Black radical tradition and indict the left anxieties around the rational decision some Black folk make to carry guns and the reality of violence as part of the realty of white supremacy has led to movement to allow long sentence for minor violent crime counteract the limited progress of releasing folks convicted for drug possession. This has allowed largely symbolic reforms, technocratic, non-profit driven reform like communing sentences for cannabis possession to trade off with policies which would actually empower the communities most impacted by mass incarceration to actively get the resources they need to control the origins that produce public safety in community. Support the showIn Search of Black Power is a Black-owned internet show and podcast. This podcast is sponsored and produced by Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle (LBS). The internet show is published in collaboration with Black Liberation Media (BLM)

Send us a textJoin me for a compelling conversation with my guest, Dameon Wroe. His story is one of struggle, survival, and ultimately, redemption. Growing up in Southern California, Dameon faced challenges early on. After his parents' divorce, he lived with his sister and, by his teenage years, had already experienced run-ins with the police. He learned his lesson and set out to become a police officer, studying law enforcement in college.Music became his avocation. He performed at the Roxy, and was discovered by The Whispers—an iconic R&B group known for hits like "And the Beat Goes On" and "Rock Steady." He landed a record deal with Capitol Records. It seemed like he was on his way to stardom.But life took a drastic turn. While working as a security officer and preparing to enter law enforcement, Dameon found himself on the wrong side of the justice system. He endured the trauma of wrongful accusations, jury trials, and a million-dollar bail that kept him locked up. Books like Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson and The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander give us a powerful background for Dameon's journey.Dameon just published his fifth book - a captivating account of his painful journey - The Road to Redemption (July 2024). It's the “non-fictional story of an author's relentless pursuit of justice, and full vindication. After being wrongfully arrested and maliciously prosecuted for murder, Dameon tells the truthful version about what happened on the night of January 1, 2004.”Now, as an author, motivational speaker, mentor, and life coach, Dameon draws on his experience to inspire change. Join us on this episode as we unpack the realities of the justice system, share this story of resilience, and spark conversations that matter. SHOW NOTES Support the showBecome a Patron - Click on the link to learn how you can become a Patron of the show. Thank you! Ken's Substack Page The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com

Michelle joins Megan to discuss the essential checks every business owner should be doing. They discuss tracking monthly KPI's, conducting regular business health checks, and why it is important to divide your year into quarters. All their tips and advice will help you start the year in the right way  Bookmark the Vet Rehab Summit: https://vetrehabsummit.com/  Learn more about CuraCore: https://curacore.org/vet/  To learn about Onlinepethealth, watch a free webinar, or join any of our Facebook groups, click here: https://onlinepethealth.com/podcast

Exalting upon high the principle of liberty to smash the pedestal upon which the principle of avaricious profit lays.Tune in to hear my case for the need for our society to dedicate itself to the principle of liberty in an era of growing inequality. I take inspiration from many of the greatest human rights icons, educators, and leaders of the modern eras such as President Obama, Nelson Mandela, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar, Georges Bernanos, Michelle Alexander and Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR).It was becoming increasingly apparent to many people that America was slowly becoming a plutocracy in the late 19th century. Today that is a definite truth. I try to make the case that a society can be dedicated to either liberty or profit, not both at the same time. I also discuss the problems with vested economic interests having power over ethical implications as well as the dangers of tyranny of the majority/mobs, and increased polarization being directly correlated with increased income inequality. Moreover, job insecurity makes it more difficult to people to unionize as people are dissuaded by their bosses who own the means of production. Since the American New Left Movement 1950-1975 there was a strong student and minority movement demanding rights and a more egalitarian society. Today, there is a strong corporate backlash to this movement that has resulted in a shift in power towards big business also fueled by the growth in multinational corporations and globalization.It was not only the original 1st Amendment from the Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment founded at the beginning of Reconstruction that provided protections and judicial precedent there were also the consumer protection laws passed by FDR to provide a social safety net well into the 1960s. Much of this apparatus was dismantled and some of it was recovered under the Obama administration in response to the 2008 recession. The 2011 Occupy Wall Street Movement was sparked by the disillusionment by young people faced with college loans, unemployment, and a housing crisis. I discuss these issues in the podcast and how the spirit of youth in our generation will exalt the principle of liberty to act on our conscience through a grassroots movement to regulate the spirit of avarice due to our societies material decadence and dedication to profit in the current era.

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week it's Part 2 of a two-part conversation with serial entrepreneur and diversity activist, Cherron Perry-Thomas. She is founder and president of Green Dandelion Marketing and Sales which grew out of a desire to introduce retailers to innovative plant based products. Since its founding, 20 years ago, Green Dandelion has helped their clients launch more than 2,000 products in grocery and health stores in the mid-Atlantic United States. Clients include manufactures of biodynamic, organic, non-gmo, vegan and fair trade products, helping to solidify their commitment to leaving a positive impact on the planet and all lives. which she further nurtures as co-owner of Plant and People (https://plantandpeople.com), a Black women's owned boutique offering house plants, supplies, plant wellness products, services, and gifts. A certified Social Impact Strategist, she applies these skills as the Director of Social Impact for The Diasporic Alliance for Cannabis Opportunities (DACO), a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness about educational, wellness, and economic opportunities in the cannabis industry and particularly through the Black Cannabis Week (https://www.blackcannabisweek.com/) Initiative which takes place September 22-29, 2024. Whether you're a “planty” person or not, there's plenty of green gems to pick up in this conversation. Where to find Cherron? On LInkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherron-perry-thomas-mba-643a251a/) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/munashe97/?hl=en) On X (https://x.com/wearedaco/status/1055867698620653576) What's Charron running in? Hoka running shoes (https://www.hoka.com/en/us/) Other topics of interest: About Memphis, Tennessee (https://civilrightstrail.com/destination/memphis/) About Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (https://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/african-american-historic-sites-in-philadelphia/) West Philadelphia History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Philadelphia) Ever heard of Purple Hull Peas (https://specialtyproduce.com/produce/Purple_Hull_Peas_4399.php#:~:text=Also%20known%20as%20Pinkeye%20Purple,slightly%20in%20appearance%20and%20flavor.)? Walter Wallace Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Walter_Wallace) Who was Fred Hampton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton)? Black August (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_August_(commemoration)) About to the Roots Picnic (https://therootspicnic.com) The New Jim Crow (linkhttps://newjimcrow.com) by Michelle Alexander About the US Farm Bill (https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-bill/index) UN Report on Drugs 2018 (https://www.unodc.org/wdr2018/) Cannabis legalization around the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis) Special Guest: Cherron Perry-Thomas.

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week it's Part 1 of a two-part conversation with serial entrepreneur and diversity activist, Cherron Perry-Thomas. She is founder and president of Green Dandelion Marketing and Sales which grew out of a desire to introduce retailers to innovative plant based products. Since its founding, 20 years ago, Green Dandelion has helped their clients launch more than 2,000 products in grocery and health stores in the mid-Atlantic United States. Clients include manufactures of biodynamic, organic, non-gmo, vegan and fair trade products, helping to solidify their commitment to leaving a positive impact on the planet and all lives. which she further nurtures as co-owner of Plant and People (https://plantandpeople.com), a Black women's owned boutique offering house plants, supplies, plant wellness products, services, and gifts. A certified Social Impact Strategist, she applies these skills as the Director of Social Impact for The Diasporic Alliance for Cannabis Opportunities (DACO), a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness about educational, wellness, and economic opportunities in the cannabis industry and particularly through the Black Cannabis Week (https://www.blackcannabisweek.com/) Initiative which takes place September 22-29, 2024. Whether you're a “planty” person or not, there's plenty of green gems to pick up in this conversation. Where to find Cherron? On LInkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherron-perry-thomas-mba-643a251a/) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/munashe97/?hl=en) On X (https://x.com/wearedaco/status/1055867698620653576) What's Charron running in? Hoka running shoes (https://www.hoka.com/en/us/) Other topics of interest: About Memphis, Tennessee (https://civilrightstrail.com/destination/memphis/) About Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (https://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/african-american-historic-sites-in-philadelphia/) West Philadelphia History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Philadelphia) Ever heard of Purple Hull Peas (https://specialtyproduce.com/produce/Purple_Hull_Peas_4399.php#:~:text=Also%20known%20as%20Pinkeye%20Purple,slightly%20in%20appearance%20and%20flavor.)? Walter Wallace Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Walter_Wallace) Who was Fred Hampton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton)? Black August (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_August_(commemoration)) About to the Roots Picnic (https://therootspicnic.com) The New Jim Crow (linkhttps://newjimcrow.com) by Michelle Alexander About the US Farm Bill (https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-bill/index) UN Report on Drugs 2018 (https://www.unodc.org/wdr2018/) Cannabis legalization around the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis) Special Guest: Cherron Perry-Thomas.

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

In this riveting episode, we delve into the resurgence of racial injustices in the U.S. through legal channels, opinions and public policy, critiquing the belief in a post-racial society and emphasizing White Supremacy's lingering influence. We highlight significant legal and historical contexts, and also address recent lawsuits targeting programs designed to support racial minorities, arguing against the so-called colorblind policies and advocating for race-conscious measures to achieve true equality. Sources used in the making of this episode: "The New Jim Crow." Michelle Alexander. "Stamped From The Beginning." Ibram X. Kendi. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/13/magazine/civil-rights-affirmative-action-colorblind.html https://19thnews.org/2023/11/affirmative-action-backlash-maternal-health-program-black-women/ https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/affirmative-action-killer-ed-blum-supreme-court-strategy.html https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/society-equity/conservative-activist-uses-civil-war-era-law-challenge-us-corporate-diversity-2023-09-25/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/29/john-hopkins-legacy-racial-diversity/ https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/american-medical-association-body-mass-index-racially-biased/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ayana-fakhir6/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ayana-fakhir6/support

In her introduction to Dorsey Nunn's book, Michelle Alexander quoted Toni Morrison: “Just remember that your real job is that if your free, you need to free somebody else. If you have some power, then your job is to empower somebody else.” Alexander notes, “I've known Dorsey for two decades. I've watched him grow and evolve into an extraordinary thinker and leader, someone who has helped to birth and shape movements that are changing the course of history.” Dorsey and others launched the “ban the box” movement, Alexander writes, “Because of the heroic work of Dorsey and all those in the organizations that he led or cofounded, and the powerful movements that he has helped to build, barrier to employment, housing, education and more have begun to fall away for millions of people…” This week on Everyday Injustice, we talk to Dorsey Nunn, who just released his memoirs, “What Kind of Bird Can't Fly,” and he describes his story of going from a life sentence to a leader in criminal justice reform.

Dive into the complex history of America's drug war with George Fisher, former Massachusetts Attorney General and acclaimed scholar of criminal law. In his latest book, "Beware Euphoria," Fisher explores the moral and racial dimensions of drug prohibition, challenging conventional narratives. Join the conversation on Stanford Legal as Fisher discusses the impact of racial justice movements on drug policy, including the legalization of cannabis, offering profound insights into a contentious issue shaping legal and social discourse.Connect:Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast WebsiteStanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn PageRich Ford >>>  Twitter/XPam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School PageStanford Law School >>> Twitter/XStanford  Law Magazine >>> Twitter/XLinks:George Fisher >>> Stanford Law School PageBeware Euphoria: The Moral Roots and Racial Myths of America's War on Drugs(00:00:00) Chapter 1: The Origins of Drug Prohibition Podcast guest, George Fisher, traces the history of drug prohibition, highlighting the departure of cannabis use from medical preservation. He also discusses the 19th-century roots of drug prohibition, particularly the moral concerns driving the anti-drug laws.(00:11:42) Chapter 2: Racial Narratives and Mass IncarcerationRich Ford discusses the common narrative linking mass incarceration to the war on drugs and its alleged racial motivations. Fisher challenges this narrative, arguing that early drug laws were about protecting whites' moral purity rather than targeting people of color. The conversation explores the racial dynamics of early drug laws, emphasizing the racism of indifference rather than explicit targeting.(00:20:20) Chapter 3: Moral Valence of Mind-Altering Drugs Fisher delves into the historical moral perceptions of mind-altering drugs, tracing back to Early Christian notions of reason and morality.He explains why certain drugs, like opium and later marijuana, were seen as threats to moral character, while alcohol was treated differently due to its varied uses.(00:26:15) Chapter 4: Legalization of Marijuana and Racial Justice The conversation shifts to the legalization of marijuana, highlighting its historical bans and recent movements towards legalization. Concerns about the increasing potency of marijuana and its potential backlash are explored, suggesting a need for careful regulation and messaging.(00:30:19) Conclusion: Closing RemarksRich Ford wraps up the conversation with George Fisher discussing insights and emphasizing the importance of discussing the ongoing struggle with drugs and intoxicants.

Headlines for March 13, 2024; What Is Israel’s Goal in Lebanon? Increasing Cross-Border Attacks Risk Expanding the Gaza War; Rami Khouri: U.S. Airdrops & Floating Pier Plan Are “Not Serious Responses” to Gaza Suffering; “Revolutionary Love”: Michelle Alexander on Gaza, Solidarity, MLK & What Gives Her Hope; Warning to America: Hungarian Green on Authoritarianism as Trump Hosts PM Viktor Orbán at Mar-a-Lago

Starting with the Black Panthers and working our way to the present, we're getting a crash course on Black American history, decade by decade. When it comes to the Black Panthers and the Black Power movement, myths and misconceptions abound. In this episode, we set the record straight. Learn what they really stood for, what truths get distorted, and how their influence is still shaping the modern antiracism movement today.Your listen next list: What You Need to Know About the Affirmative Action Ruling on Apple & SpotifyThe War on Drugs, Racism in the Criminal Justice System on Apple & SpotifyTo support Marie and get exclusive resources, head to patreon.com/mariebeech. To learn more about Marie's DEI services, head to mariebeecham.com.Sources: History, How the Black Power Movement Influenced the Civil Rights Movement; NMAAHC, The Foundations of Black Power; Britannica, War On Drugs - History & Mass Incarceration; AJC, Million Man March: A Day of Atonement; Briannica, Los Angelos Riots of 1992; What We Don't Learn About the Black Panther Party — but Should; The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander.

Women's Magazine hosts Margo Okazawa-Rey and Jovelyn Richards talk with award-winning free lance journalist and author Thandisizwe Chimurenga about her  collection of interviews in the book  “Some of Us Are Brave: Interviews and Conversations With Sistas in Life and Struggle” and her second volume “Some Of Us Are Brave (Vol 2): Interviews and Conversations with Sistas in Life and Struggle” two books that counter the  white supremacy and cis-heterosexual patriarchy (and by extension, misogyny) of our society that  by definition belittles and ignores the voices of women of color in general and Black women in particular (misogynoir). Part of the corrective to white patriarchal supremacy is  the centering and airing of Black women's voices through Some of Us Are Brave: A Black Women's Radio Program that aired on Pacifica-Los Angeles (KPFK 90.7 FM) from 2003 until 2011. The program covered a myriad of issues by amplifying the voices of a broad cross-section of Black women. Some of those voices have been preserved as transcripts and they primarily make up this work. Based on interviews with Asata Shakur, Barbara Ramsy, Carol Boyce-Davies, Euzhan Palcy, Michelle Alexander, Evelyn White, Paula Giddings, Pearl Cleage, Ramona Africa and Sisters on the Run.   Thandisizwe Chimurenga is an award-winning, freelance journalist based in Los Angeles, CA. She has written for New America Media; the Los Angeles Watts Times, Sentinel and Wave newspapers; the Final Call; Black Agenda Report; Ebony; CounterPunch, Truth-Out and Daily Kos. She is a former radio reporter for the KPFK Evening News (Pacifica-Los Angeles) and Free Speech Radio News (FSRN). A creator or co-creator of independent, grassroots media (newspapers, cable tv, radio) for over 20 years, her activism has ranged from electoral organizing; anti-police terror work; freedom for political prisoners and prisoners of war; to organizing against violence against women. The post Some of Us Are Brave: Interviews and Conversations With Sistas in Life and Struggle with Thandisizwe Chimurenga appeared first on KPFA.

(Content warning for discussion of violence in a war zone, including against children). A preview of last month's bonus episode on Israel and Palestine. In this clip, Jonathan and Sy talk about how they both approach thinking about the occupation as people leaving colonized faith. The full episode covers the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, how to engage media and advocacy on this subject in an emotionally healthy way, and a lot more! To hear the whole episode, and all our bonus episodes, plus read our weekly newsletter, subscribe at KTFPress.com.The transcript of this preview is available here: https://open.substack.com/pub/ktfpress/p/preview-humanity-nuance-and-justice-f6bMentioned in the clip:-        The YouTube clip of President Biden speaking about Israel as a senator-        The event about Palestine featuring a discussion with Michelle Alexander, Ta-Nihisi Coates, and Dr. Rashid Khalidi [the discussion begins at 26:40 in the linked video]Shake the Dust is a podcast of KTF Press. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Transcripts of every episode are available at KTFPress.com/s/transcripts.HostsJonathan Walton – follow him on Facebook and Instagram.Sy Hoekstra – follow him on Mastodon.Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.Production and editing by Sy Hoekstra.Transcript by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.Questions about anything you heard on the show? Write to shakethedust@ktfpress.com and we may answer your question on a future episode. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com/subscribe

Join us as we conclude our ‘Real Parenting” series, with this last episode on Navigating the IEP Process. Listen in as Michelle Alexander shares her experience as a teacher navigating the process, giving us practical ways to begin, how to advocate for your child, and next steps to take to ensure your child is successful in school.   Other Recommended Resources:Care to Change blogs Parenting From The Inside Out  Other Care to Change recommended resources First Aid For Families Text us your thoughts or questions at our Care Line: 317-979-7133For more information about Care to Change visit  www.caretochange.orgFollow Care to Change on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/CaretoChange.org/Follow Care to Change on Instagram @care_to_changeIf you would like someone to come speak to your group, contact us for more details or schedule an appt today. 

“The Mandates of Conscience”: Michelle Alexander on Israel, Gaza, MLK & Speaking Out in a Time of War; Ta-Nehisi Coates and Rashid Khalidi on Israeli Occupation, Apartheid & the 100-Year War on Palestine

“The Mandates of Conscience”: Michelle Alexander on Israel, Gaza, MLK & Speaking Out in a Time of War; Ta-Nehisi Coates and Rashid Khalidi on Israeli Occupation, Apartheid & the 100-Year War on Palestine

(Content warning for discussion of violence in a war zone, including against children). For this month's bonus episode, Jonathan and Sy are talking about the conflict in Israel and Palestine. They discuss how they both approach thinking about the occupation as people leaving colonized faith, the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, how to engage media and advocacy on this subject in an emotionally healthy way, and a lot more. Please write in to shakethedust@ktfpress.com to let us know what you think about the episode, or to ask us any questions you have!Mentioned in the episode:* Adam Serwer's piece on not equating anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism* Peter Beinart's Substack, The Beinart Notebook* The YouTube clip of President Biden speaking about Israel as a senator* The New York Times' reporting from its interviews with leaders of Hamas.* The event about Palestine featuring a discussion with Michelle Alexander, Ta-Nihisi Coates, and Dr. Rashid Khalidi [the discussion begins at 26:40 in the linked video]Correction: in the episode, Sy said that dozens of babies died at a hospital in Gaza when the NICU lost power. In fact, the hospital could not provide incubators for about 36 premature babies after the bombing. Five died as a direct consequence. A third of all babies at the hospital were critically ill when the hospital was finally evacuated, and all had serious infections. We at KTF do not know Their ultimate fate at the moment. We apologize for the inaccuracy.Shake the Dust is a podcast of KTF Press. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Transcripts of every episode are available at KTFPress.com/s/transcripts.HostsJonathan Walton – follow him on Facebook and Instagram.Sy Hoekstra – follow him on Mastodon.Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.Production and editing by Sy Hoekstra.Transcript by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.Questions about anything you heard on the show? Write to shakethedust@ktfpress.com and we may answer your question on a future episode.Transcript[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending — F#, B, F#, E, D#, B — with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Sy Hoekstra: Why is Israel such an appealing idea? It's because Jewish people have faced so many thousands of years of oppression, everywhere they've gone. The dream of having a place where your oppressed people can be free and flourish, it's not hard to sympathize with that at all, right? It's one of the most natural human instincts. The problem is like Jonathan said before, the way this world is ordered, the easiest way to accomplish that is to trample other people.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, leaving colonized faith for the kingdom of God. I'm Jonathan Walton.Sy Hoekstra: And I'm Sy Hoekstra, welcome to this bonus episode. We haven't done one of these in a long time, Jonathan. But we are going to be talking today about Israel and Palestine and everything that's been going on over there. And we're going to introduce a new segment a little bit. Not a little bit—we're introducing a new segment today. We're going to be trying something out that we might then try on the regular show in the future, where we're going to be talking about one of our recommendations from our newsletter, just like in a little bit more detail before we jump into the topic of the show. Sometimes they will have to do with the topic of the show, sometimes they won't, the recommendations we talk about. Today it does.We're going to talk about the great piece that Adam Serwer wrote in The Atlantic that Jonathan highlighted last week. If you're listening to this the day it comes out, last week. But before we get into all that, one quick thing, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Yep, we have one favor to ask of you and that is to go to Apple or Spotify and give this show a five-star rating. If it's four, you can keep it to yourself [Sy laughs], but five stars, that'll be great. It's a quick and easy way, and a free way to support us. And it makes us look really, really great when other people look us up. So please go to Apple or Spotify and give us that five star rating. And if you're on Apple, please do leave us a quick review. We'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much.Sy Hoekstra: We would. Jonathan, don't make jokes just after I've taken a sip of tea, I almost spat that on my microphone.[laughter]One quick note up top, we know how hard this conversation is for people in so many different ways, and there are a lot of different angles. If you just listen to the first couple minutes, you'll only hear our thoughts on a couple different angles of this. So we would ask you to listen with us all the way through to hear whole perspectives, because there's a lot to talk about and a lot to take in. And also just take care of yourself, any specific trigger warnings will be in the show notes.Alright, let's get started. We'll get into this. So Adam Serwer wrote this piece in The Atlantic about not conflating anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. And Jonathan, why don't you tell us what he wrote?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. So Serwer defines Zionism as, quote, the belief that the Jews should have a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland.” And that argument then goes on that if you're against that idea, you're denying Jews a right that everyone else has in the world which is inherently discriminatory. So Serwer writes, “There's nothing anti-Semitic about anti-Zionists who believe that the existence of a religious or ethnically defined state is inherently racist, and that the only real solution to the conflict is, as Palestinian-American advocate, Yousef Munayyer writes, ‘equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians is a single shared state, end quote, with a constitution that would ‘that the country would be home to both peoples and that despite national narratives and voices on either side that claim otherwise, both people have historical ties to the land,' end quote. Perhaps you think this idea is naive or unrealistic; that is not an expression of prejudice towards Jews.”Now, he also points out that there have been Jewish voices throughout history and today who make the case for this one-state anti-Zionist solution.Sy Hoekstra: Including one of your former professors, Peter Beinart [pronounced bean-art] Beinart [pronounced Bine-art]?.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Beinart [Bine-art].Sy Hoekstra: Beinart. Okay.Jonathan Walton: Yes, if you don't read Peter Beinart stuff, please go subscribe to his Substack, and then read all of the wonderful, wonderful analyses he does on Israel and Palestine. And he's been doing this for decades.Sy Hoekstra: Okay. Thank you for that summary Jonathan. So, now tell us why did you pick this and what are your thoughts on it? Why did you pick this article?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think I picked this article for two reasons. One is that he makes an argument that everybody makes, and then he makes one that very few people know about. So the first one is that we need to be able to say with distinct clarity and conciseness, that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Now, if we conflate the two, it's helpful for people who have certain agendas. But if we're actually trying to love people well, and see them for who they are, and not just politicize them into entities that we can deny or dismiss or destroy, then we have to be able to say that Palestinians are not Hamas. That the political ideologies that govern us are not held by every single person, especially if you are a child in an incubator, right?We have to be able to see people apart from the ideas that oppress and marginalize them, or the ideas that we have about them. And so that argument for me, particularly in somewhere like The Atlantic, which has made unhelpful articles, by the way, since the conflict started, but Adam just writes a great, concise, clear argument around the nuances necessary. The second thing is that if we are about creating theocratic states that are tied to ethnicity, we are creating states that are racist and exclusatory. Exclusionary?Sy Hoekstra: Exclusionary [laughs]. You just made up a new word, exclusatory.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Exclusatory. They are inherently racist and exclusionary, and we need to lean into that a little bit more, I think. Because if we are desiring to set up religious ethno-states, we are creating spaces that will be inherently oppressive to people who are outside of that social hierarchy. That is what will happen. So if we are going to create political realities that then create social realities, because politics, like the Greek is like how people, social people deal with power, then we are going to create structures that oppress and marginalize. That's what's going to happen. And so there needs to actually be not a two-state solution, in my opinion, but a one-state solution where people can actually pursue nuance and prosperity and flourishing together.It's not a popular opinion, or popularly talked about opinion, but I do think that is the one that's actually going to lead to prosperity and peace in the region. That's my hope and my prayer when I engage with these things, and I'm grateful that Adam Serwer wrote the piece and it was published.Sy Hoekstra: That's interesting cause Serwer actually doesn't, he's like, “I don't really care one state, two state, whatever works for peace and harmony, that's fine with me. I'm just pointing out what I think should be a point of engagement for people talking about the issue.”Jonathan Walton: Yes, that's true.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, that's good. I like this one. This wasn't my, this is your pick in the newsletter, but I love Adam Serwer [laughs], just in general. We've recommended him, I've recommended him before in the newsletter too. Part of the reason I think it's important is because like you said in the newsletter, that just the noise of the conflict, the intensity of the emotions around it makes it really hard for a point like this that is relatively simple to land. And there are just, there are a lot of people... I mean, I was reading yesterday about how the Anti-Defamation League, which is a well known Jewish organization that kind of monitors extremism of all kinds, not just anti-Semitism, but they focus on that a lot, is now labeling any protests calling for a ceasefire as anti-Semitic—or as anti-Israel. Just calling for a ceasefire.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: That's like the lack of nuance isn't even… there are like grown adults…[laughter]…grown, well-educated adults, saying things that are absolutely wild, because people's emotions and ideologies and all kinds of ideas around this topic are just, they swirl and make a bunch of noise, like you said. And I just appreciate it when somebody says something that everyone needs to understand in an exceptionally clear way.Jonathan Walton: Right. To add to that though, I think what is problematic is that there are major news outlets that interview people that say things like that. Like to be pro-Palestine is to be inherently anti-Semitic. And then they go unchallenged. They go one question and they move on to the next discussion. It's not just that the stuff is out there, it's that it's not challenged and then it's not questioned at all. So the conflation moves forward as fact for millions of people every day. And I hope that there are more leaders that will say, actually, let's slow down and separate the two.Sy Hoekstra: Yep. And we will talk about how to slow down and separate things in a minute. Let's jump into the broader discussion then. Let's just start with where we're coming from when we talk about this with Israel and Palestine. Where we start from, what's our starting point and how do we think about the issues? Jonathan, do you want to…? You've already like intimated a little bit about what you think, but why don't you give us a little more?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean, I think the starting point for me, I immediately go to the historical context of how and why Israel came to be, and then how and—the State of Israel came to be in 1948—and the United States' and the West's role in that. I dive there immediately just so that I can step out of trying to throw on Old Covenant language, try to graft myself onto some larger cosmic story from God, and just say, “No, that actually wasn't it.” Let me resist that temptation. Because it is so easy to want to be right when we're angry, upset, frustrated, sad, grieving, and an attack like what Hamas did on October 7th can lead to that. I think the big picture is where I start and where I end is just mothers holding their dying children. Those two images for me are really, really, really, really difficult to hold on to.Sy Hoekstra: And even by the way, you mentioned the ICU before, I think.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Just in case people don't know, like a day or two ago, the hospital that was bombed toward the beginning of the fighting was bombed again and the power went out.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So the incubators in the ICU were not working and a few dozen children, babies died as a result.Jonathan Walton: Right. And I mean, yeah, that just doesn't have to, it just doesn't have to happen. It just doesn't have to happen. And if you follow me on Instagram, I've tried to post… [choking up]Sy Hoekstra: Take your time.Jonathan Walton: …the same photo every day. There's a short video of a woman just holding her kid, and they put… like all of the remains are just in bags. White bags. And that I think… I don't post other videos because I think they're too… Just, I mean, I don't want people to be… Like, even some things are too unsettling for me, and I don't think Instagram is helpful and how they just bombard people with images to keep them on algorithm. But this this particular video, I do share because I think it speaks to the lack of humanity and the humanity… the lack of humanity of what's happening to them and the humanity of what is happening when you lose a child. And it doesn't have to be that way. It just doesn't.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Thanks.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I think I start at a similar place. The beginning point for me is 1948. The context for everything that is happening is the fact that 750,000 Palestinians were forced off of their land. And since then, in order to maintain, they were forced off their land in order to create space for settlers to come in and create this state, and then have decades of basically violence to maintain that situation. And I think like Jonathan said, if there's a settler situation like that, at no point in history have you ever had hundreds of thousands of people kicked off their land and forced into another place and forced to live as second class citizens under a regime that is fundamentally not built for them and not had violence as a response.Which is not the same as me saying I don't hold Hamas responsible for what they've done. It just means if you're going to have a state like Israel, there's going to be a violent response every single time. And you're going to have to have continuous escalations of violence in order to maintain a situation like that, because you kicked hundreds of thousands of people off their land. And if you don't start from that point and say, how do we go back and do something about that fundamental problem that founding the State of Israel created, you're never going to solve anything, right? There's going to be no… if the only discussion is, “We're here, all the international community says we deserve to be here, the Bible says we deserve to be here, this is our land, nobody else matters,” then you're never going to stop having violence.And by the way, Palestinians live in a lot of different places, they don't just live in Palestine. You're never going to stop having Palestinians, you're never going to stop having the idea of Palestine. A huge percentage of Jordan's population is Palestinians. There are Palestinians in Egypt. There are Palestinians all over the world, it's not going away. And any other framing is just not going to get you to any sort of solution that deals with anything real. For me, like the one state, two state—I don't know the details. I'm just saying you're going to have to address the fact that all these people's land was taken, and they were forced off of it, and there's been an enormous amount of violence and discrimination in order to maintain that situation, and if you don't, this attack from Hamas will not be the last.It's the same thing, 9/11 didn't happen in a vacuum either, right? That happened… again, I hold the people who did it responsible for their actions, but it's also not surprising. That it happened at all is not surprising.The other point I wanted to make is that just like, people call it a colonizing project in Israel, and people are confused a lot of times by that framing of it. But it's not as confusing when you understand how invested the West is in it. Like effectively we are the colonizing country.Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: Like the United States and Britain and France to a certain degree, we have all had a hand in this because we want an ally in the region. It is about our foreign policy interests. That's why Israel was created in the first place.That's the only reason they had the political will to do it in the first place, and that's the only reason it continues to exist. Because another reality of the situation is Israel is surrounded by people who would destroy it if it wasn't being protected by bigger countries like us. And they're there because we want them to be there and because they serve our interests in a lot of ways, our foreign policy interests. And I think part of the reason that we don't see it this way, or that Americans especially are primed not to see it this way, is because of the kind of racist colonialist way that we see our own country.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Right? Like we do not… So many Americans, so many Christians in particular—talk about a concrete example of colonized faith, of theology that supports colonization—we talk about American exceptionalism and how we've been blessed by God and how we've accomplished all these great things, and nothing about all the people that were displaced and killed and enslaved and exploited to get to where we are. Like we are so used to that, just celebrating America and not thinking about any of the things that happened as a result. I was just watching something with Rashid Khalidi who's a Palestinian-American historian, and he was just like “A Native American reservation, Palestine, the places where Black people were forced to live in South Africa in apartheid; It's all the same thing.”You're just forcing people to live somewhere so that your colonialist project can stand. And the point is that we're used to talking about self-determination and self-governance. Like us in the United States, we say, “We fought against Britain because we had the inalienable right to govern ourselves,” with no thought to the fact that we were denying the right to govern themselves to a bunch of other people.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] That is a fundamental part of how America thinks of itself, that kind of doublespeak [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Self-determination for us, but not for the people that we don't want to give it to. So it's not really a surprise that we have no issue saying, “Oh yeah, this state Israel, has self-determination, and we're going to make sure that they continue to have that” with no regard for all the self-determination that they are denying to the people within their borders.Jonathan Walton: Yes. I mean, embedded in our political reality in the United States and all of the economic and social tentacles downstream of that is radical hypocrisy.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And are socially accepted. Morally, I'm using my big, huge finger quotes, morally justifiable hypocrisy.Oh, and something that I wish Christians understood, which is why I think I enter back in where like where I come into it because I try to stay in a lane to stay grounded, is that like the economic and political and militaristic interests of the United States are not how Jesus runs foreign policy. The idea that the, let's say, the Roman government fits so beautifully with Jesus' desire for the beloved community makes absolutely, positively no sense. And so if you are a follower of Jesus listening to this podcast and you're thinking to yourself, “We should wholeheartedly put just a platform where the kingdom of God is the same as a platform of a political party,” then we are radically out of step with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the apostles and anything before or after that we are sitting in with in Scripture, which is missing it completely.Because Jesus says, “We will be known by the fruit that we bear,” and the fruit of the United States, just like Sy was saying, when Joe Biden stood up in Congress in 1986 and said, as he was fighting for $3 billion worth of funding to go to Israel, he said, “This is the best $3 billion investment we can make, because if Israel didn't exist, we would have to make it exist to secure our interests in the region.”Sy Hoekstra: That is a clip available on YouTube if you want to go watch it.[laughter]Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I should also say or we should also note, this is implicitly obvious, but we do not come at this from a position of like interpreting the dream in the book of Revelation to figure out who needs to own Israel and when in order to bring about the apocalypse [laughs], or anything like that.Jonathan Walton: Oh Lord… [laughs]Sy Hoekstra: I'm laughing as I say it because it is funny, but you have to note it because that is a dominant view in American Christianity.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: It's not a dominant view in the church in any way, like the global church, but it's the dominant view here. And again, it's not surprising to me that it is a dominant view here, because it is a view that fits very nicely with American foreign policy.Jonathan Walton: Yes. I will also say, and this is not in our notes, but we don't come at this also coming at it thinking that this is some… when we are noting the interests of the United States and Western interests in foreign policy to set this up, we are not then endorsing some grand conspiracy theory about Jewish people.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, yeah, that's a good point to make. We're actually doing the opposite of that.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: We're saying, unfortunately, like sadly, what I'm saying is, I think the Jewish state and the global Jewish people have been,Jonathan Walton: Apro—Sy Hoekstra: like their really genuine cause has been used, has been appropriated as you were about to say.Jonathan Walton: right.Sy Hoekstra: They're pawns in the schemes of America's foreign policy interests. I think that's what it comes down to. By the way, a lot of other... this is not just Israel. Like a lot of times Hamas is a pawn of Iran or Russia. Like a lot of times this is… the Middle East and all these fights, we'll talk about this more, a lot of people are being used for other people's interests.That is generally what is happening in so many conflicts in the Middle East, like they are proxy wars for other people and other people's interests. Okay, so Jonathan, you mentioned the importance, and this actually goes nicely into what we were about to talk about, that which is the importance of separating the people of these two countries or of these two places, I guess. Of Israel and Palestine from their governments. Why is that such an important point to you?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think it's an important point because people are not always in control or responsible for what those who govern and control them do in the world. It's often that they don't agree. It's often that they don't endorse. It's often if they had power, they would actually stop it. But unfortunately because of how our world is ordered, children can't stop what their parents do. Employees can't stop what their bosses and supervisors do. Like if I held a child responsible for the abuse of their parents, then we have a serious problem, because in all of these interactions there's power and resources at play. So to say that a child or their mother is responsible for rockets firing from wherever, and then therefore you can take a missile and destroy that hospital or destroy that ambulance, or destroy that convoy that you just told to go into this corridor, there's serious, serious problems with that.Similarly, if you are sitting on the other side of the wall downstream of oppression, it is radically unhelpful, radically wrong, to maim and kill and shoot and kidnap people who may not, and particularly an activist that I'm thinking of, she was actually someone who was helping the Palestinians get into hospitals in Israel and get the health care that they need, and she was kidnapped. So I think we have to understand that people are not necessarily endorsers or enforcers of the policies of the governments that govern them.Sy Hoekstra: Right. And you can't talk about them as monoliths. I mean, like you were just mentioning, there's actually a number of people who were killed or kidnapped by Hamas who were peace advocates, who were actually people who are very much on the side of Palestine. That doesn't matter to Hamas. There's no difference to them. And it's the same thing. I mean, actually, the Hamas leadership, just a couple days ago The New York Times published an interview with a bunch of the members of Hamas leadership, and the stuff they cop to is unbelievable. I mean, it's like stuff that people kind of already knew about them, but the fact they just come out and say it, like that they absolutely knew what the response of Israel would be to their attack. And they knew that a ton of people would die as a result. And they were just like, “That's just the price that we're paying to get this issue back on the map, basically.” Right?Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the specific reason they're doing it was because Israel was attempting to normalize diplomatic relationships with Saudi Arabia and some other Middle Eastern countries, and they didn't want that to happen. They don't want Israel to become normalized in the Arab world, and they want more people talking about Palestine. So they killed a bunch of Israelis and then they knew that as a result, a bunch of their people would die. And that's just like, to them it's just totally is what it is. It's wild. It's not wild, I guess, it's how a lot of terrorists operate. But on the other side, there are plenty of Israelis and there are plenty of Jews around the world who are completely against what the government of Israel does.And the government of Israel right now is one of the most far-right, Jewish supremacist governments they've ever had. And so it's… I wholeheartedly agree with the point that you cannot talk about the conflict in a helpful or nuanced way without I think, realizing that.Jonathan Walton: Right. I also lean into the fact, and this I think, is something we also have to hold tightly, even though it's really, really slippery. Is that even soldiers don't believe in the policies and the actions sometimes that they are forced to carry out. There are a number of IDF soldiers, and reserves and people who have left saying, “I don't want to be a part of this.” And just like you had soldiers coming back from Iraq, coming back from Afghanistan saying, “I thought that I was going for this one thing, and I went for something else. And I ended up fighting for my comrades, like fighting for my battalion. I'm not fighting for this country, I'm caught up in a conflict and I feel like a pawn.”Because I think we have to lean into the complexities of the power that people have, not just that the power we think they have, the power that we perceive. Because behind every gun, and before every gun is a person. They're people. The person who's sending the bullet, the person being hit by the bullet, the person that's dropping the bomb, the person that the bomb is dropped on. They're people, and if we're able to see the image of God and one another, then maybe we could slow down before we dehumanize people and think that violence is justified.Sy Hoekstra: I think that's a good transition for us into Jonathan, how do we in engage with the issues at hand here without burning out or just trying to avoid the anxiety or trying to ignore it? How do we come at this in an emotionally healthy way? And by the way, I'll note before you answer that, we've mentioned a number of articles and other resources along the way in this conversation, and we will have links to those in the show notes if you want to read anything further. But go ahead, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I think that, you know, I gave a talk some years ago, was it two years? It was a year after the march by White supremacists in Charlottesville. So what I said to them was that for some of you, this is your first time engaging with anything about White supremacy and racism and the experiences of Black people and White people in the United States. It's your first time. This is all new to you, all the feels are there. For some of you, you were here when Rodney King was beaten, or you were here when Trayvon Martin was killed, or your first step into this may have happened today, yesterday, or 10, 15 years ago. But regardless of that, we need to be formed into people that are able to respond from our deepest values, not our deepest wounds.So if you're sitting there, and you're like, “Man, all these images are coming into my feed on social media.” I think, again, we need to treat social media like a garden, not a dumpster fire, because the algorithm is feeding off your outrage and desires your constant engagement. But literally, your heart and mind cannot handle that amount of dissonance and pain and struggle. So we actually have to build in patterns of what it looks like to engage, pray, take a break and engage again. And so if you were sitting there and you're thinking to yourself, “I don't want to be someone who just jumps in and jumps out on my own whims and giggles. I decide to get in when I feel guilty and then I get out when I feel overwhelmed.” That's a doom scrolling cycle that's radically unhelpful.And we can take this offline and put it in real life, when we disengage from the suffering of people around us and say it's for self-care, or say it's to take care of ourselves, what we're actually doing is bypassing the suffering of people around us, because we don't have the rhythms necessary to rigorously engage with the world as it is. And so, if we are not going to be people who run to comfort, we have to be people who have done the spiritual, emotional, physical, mental work necessary to have the fortitude to stand in solidarity with ourselves, with the poor and the marginalized, with the family around us, and even our enemies, to be able to see from their perspective so that we are able to love well.And so I think a couple of ways to do that on social media, is to turn off notifications, and to have people you follow and that you don't follow so that you're able to stay engaged without being overwhelmed. Because if you don't curate your social media, the algorithm will do it for you. So that's just the online stuff. In real life, similarly, who are you going to listen to and talk to, and who are you not going to listen to and talk to, so that you are able to be built up into the person that you want to be for the sake of those who are marginalized and suffering, not just for your own sake to feel comfortable and okay? So I need you to lean into the complexity because I'm not saying avoid all the people who are difficult in your life. That's not what I'm saying.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: I'm not saying, “Get away from the folks who challenge you.” That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, seek out the people that challenge you in ways that make you better, so that you can love one another well. I have to listen to hard conversations and engage with people who call me out. Because I'm not trying to live a life that where I and my comfort and my self-preservation is the most important priority, because the Gospel says I need to take up a cross. It doesn't tell me to go buy a croissant.[laughter]Jonathan Walton: I love bread, and that's my comfort food.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And so that is why I said the cross with a croissant. It wasn't just for the alliteration. [laughs] But God is calling us to make sacrifices, and I think that when we have communities of people who are willing to do that sacrificial work with us, then when the next attack happens, when the next mass shooting happens, we actually have the inner fortitude and the external community to engage with these things for the long term, which is what God is calling us to.Sy Hoekstra: That is all some very good advice. I don't know that I have things to add on to that, but I have other stuff [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Sure.Sy Hoekstra: This has just been important for me when it comes to this particular issue. Actually, it's important for me in a lot of issues, but developing a real understanding and sense of sympathy for the people who disagree with you, to me is really important. So in this particular case, what that means is trying to… it's not even that hard when it comes to Israel honestly, right? Because why is Israel such an appealing idea? It's because Jewish people have faced so many thousands of years of oppression everywhere they've gone. And Israel today has created for the Jews who live there, peace and flourishing that they haven't seen probably since King David, honestly.And it is just the dream of having a place where your oppressed people can be free and flourish. It's not hard to sympathize with that at all. It's one of the most natural human instincts. The problem is, like Jonathan said before, the way this world is ordered, the easiest way to accomplish that is to trample other people, and is to find somebody like the US whose interests are aligned with you, you know what I mean? Like to go that route. But understanding kind of where people are coming from and how real the fear is, even for people who have been a little bit secure for a few decades. You know, what I mean? How real that fear still remains in people.So my great grandmother who was alive until I was 24, was half Jewish, and her dad came over as a young kid from Romania. They went through Russia first, but they came over from Eastern Europe fleeing pogroms and anglicized their names, married Christians, went to church, and they erased Judaism from their lives effectively. And my grandma has told me that my great grandmother told her when she was young, to never tell anyone, for any reason that they were Jewish. But the reason they did that was fear. It's like the fear is so incredibly real, even for people who are living kind of middle class lives in the United States.And, I don't know, being able to understand that makes the problem to me feel a little bit more comprehensible and it makes it feel like, because it's comprehensible, like something that could theoretically be if not solved, at least you could change people's minds. There are ways around that fear, and like expanding people's sense of solidarity and love for other people who are going through the same thing. That's it, you have to be able to see that what Palestinians are going through at the hands of Israel is the same struggle, is the same thing that Jews have gone through forever. So then when I hear like bad faith arguments, or bad faith readings of history, I have an idea of what's behind it, maybe not for the individual speaker that I'm talking to, but for a lot of people, and that helps.Another thing that helps is get out there and do something [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It's true.Sy Hoekstra: It really helps to call your representatives to petition, if you can go to a march or protest or something, I did that this weekend. Being with a ton of people who feel the same way as you, or like participating in some kind of movement like that just makes you feel a little bit less isolated and lost and like you're losing your mind because people around you are saying such wild stuff. Any other thoughts Jonathan, before we wrap up?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean, for people who are listening to Sy and it's like, “Okay, how can I capture that?” I think what Sy is saying is something we've talked about in the past where it's like, we have to move from pity and sympathy towards incarnation. So the ability to feel sorry and sad for other people, that's just pity and sympathy. To look at someone's experience and say, “You know what, that is sorrowful,” right? And sympathy to feel that sorrow for yourself and then empathy to actually be able to imagine like, “Oh man, okay, I can identify with that.” And you watch Sy just do that when he's like, “Okay, I'm not just far away from this, but how can I get a little bit closer? Oh, my great grandma.”He's moving, he's identifying those feelings. And then he moves to this thing called compassion, where he actually says, “You know what, I'm going to think about, how can I suffer with them, like alongside them, even from the position that I have in Harlem? You know what, I'm going to go and protest. I'm going to put my shoes on and get my family together, and I'm going to walk, and I'm going to actually go be out there.” And if I can get in proximity in some ways to imagine what that compassion will look like and eventually, I'm going to incarnate with the people who are around me that are suffering as well, because I'm sure in that crowd, there are people who are more closely connected than Sy is.And so the fruit of that is the communal connection that he was just talking about. There's this collective grief that can be released. And when you experience the grief and connection, you're less likely to be violent, because the grief and the pain and the struggle and the push for better has somewhere to go and you have people to do it with.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: Because we have to seek out community. We have to have these rhythms, like Sy just walked through. We have to create those things to move from dismissal and dehumanization, and whatever all of might be happening inside of us towards pity and sympathy, towards empathy, towards compassion. And then if we can, in Jesus name incarnation, putting ourselves as close as we possibly can, to those who are suffering the most.Sy Hoekstra: And then when you go at that, like, the emotional health part is part of the incarnation as well, meaning like, because you can go into the grief, and you can get lost in it.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And you can find an outlet for that grief in calling for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So I was listening, there's a… I will definitely put this in the show notes. There was a talk, what do you call it? an event [starting at 26:40 in the linked video], that featured a conversation between Michelle Alexander who wrote The New Jim Crow, and Ta-Nehisi Coates, and the professor I mentioned before, Rashid Khalidi. And Coates, I guess, for those who don't know, is a famous Black American writer who writes about racial relations in the US mostly, went to Israel a few years ago, and went to the Holocaust Museum that they have in Jerusalem.And he went in and felt everything that he felt and then he walked outside and was immediately met with a line of like 10 IDF guards with enormous guns, right? And this is really interesting actually. He talks about how people talk about the situation in Israel like it's so complex, like you need a Middle East Studies degree to really understand what's going on. He's like, “I went there and I understood it in one day.” He's like, “I saw Palestinians not being able to go down certain roads, and they had other roads that they could go down that were not as well kept and whatever.” And he's like, “I know what that is. My parents grew up in Jim Crow, this is not confusing to me.”But he was like, he kind of said, “Imagine if Black people had gone through the hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow and segregation and everything and come out on the other side, and the lesson that they pulled from it was, we just need to get power, it doesn't matter what we do with it as long as we're safe.”Jonathan Walton: [long inhale] Mmmm, right.Sy Hoekstra: And he said that's Israel. Like that's what has happened. And it's just tragic in so many ways. So I think all the things that Jonathan was saying are so important, because this conversation just gets people going in so many different directions because of the trauma that is on both sides. Like the really heavy trauma that is on both sides of the wall in Israel.Jonathan Walton: I agree. I think there's, when I say and when we say, pursuing community, we are saying that we are trying to pursue a community that is seeking peace.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: That is [laughs] not… Because unfortunately, there is a solid… we may cut this out, but there is a solidarity that exists in exacting violence. And I think the resistance to that is necessary and difficult. And if we're not careful… No, it's exactly what you said.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: If we are not careful we will mistake our safety for the really, really, really good fruit as opposed to the collective fruitfulness of everyone being the thing that we long for and seeing it. That's the same thing, that's the exchange that Black slaves made when they became overseers. I will be safe. Those people won't be, but I will be safe. And like Tim Keller would say when he wrote Generous Justice, is that the definition of wickedness is to disadvantage the community for the advantage of yourself. And the definition of justice is to disadvantage yourself for the advantage of the community. And I think my hope would be that continue to push and disadvantage ourselves so that everybody can be free.Sy Hoekstra: Amen.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: That is a hard thing to ask, but nevertheless, I say amen [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Amen [laughs]. It's true.Sy Hoekstra: Before we finish up, well, a couple of things. One, I'm just going to remind you, like Jonathan did at the top. If you appreciate what we're doing here, which you do because you're listening to this, which means you're a subscriber, and we thank you so much for that support, please go and give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. If you're on Apple, leave us a little written review if you can. It helps, it's a very quick thing that you can do that really does genuinely help us. The reviews that we have on our podcast by the way, are so heartwarming and lovely [laughs], and they make me feel so great inside. So if you want to support us and also genuinely just make me feel real nice in my little heart, that'd be great[laughter]Sy Hoekstra: Oh, you know what Jonathan, I'm going to start doing what I realized I haven't been doing because… So we have not been crediting Joyce who does our transcripts [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Oh man.Sy Hoekstra: I'm going to add Joyce to the list of transcripts. The reason we haven't been crediting her is because when we started the show, we were just doing the transcripts ourselves, and we just got into a rhythm of not crediting ourselves.[laughter]Sy Hoekstra: Joyce Ambale. Ambale? Hmm, Joyce is going to have to tell me how to pronounce her last name because I've only ever seen it in writing. Joyce Ambale does our transcripts. Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra, our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess, and we will see you all in December. Thank you so much for listening.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: We're going, yeah?Jonathan Walton: [singing] We are recording now. We are recording now. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: OkayJonathan Walton: Okay [clears throat].Sy Hoekstra: [inhales for a long time, brrrrs loudly sounding like he's shaking his head, coughs, clears his throat, kind of growls, and speaks in a loud, hoarse voice]. Ready to go.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Everyone, I'm normal [laughter]. I make normal noises and there's no need for concern. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com

Israeli bombs continue to rain down on the Palestinian residents of Gaza. As of this recording, over 9,000 Palestinian civilians have been killed, a figure that includes over 3,700 children. Multiple experts on international law and the history of genocide have said that Israel's actions do indeed amount to genocide. In this episode of the podcast, we're going to hear a program staged by the Palestine Festival of Literature on November 1, titled: But We Must Speak: On Palestine and the Mandates of Conscience. The event featured: Michelle Alexander, the acclaimed civil rights lawyer and author of The New Jim Crow; Professor Rashid Khalidi in conversation with National Book Award winner Ta-Nehisi Coates; Pulitzer Prize-winning Mojave American poet Natalie Diaz; Scholar and international legal expert, Noura Erakat; and poet, activist, and Mondoweiss's Culture Editor, Mohammed El-Kurd. - - - - - Support our work Help us continue our critical, independent coverage of events in Palestine, Israel, and related U.S. politics. Donate today at https://mondoweiss.net/donate Articles and Links mentioned in the show Learn more about the Palestine Festival of Literature. View a video of this event. Subscribe to our free email newsletters. Share this podcast Share The Mondoweiss Podcast with your followers on Twitter. Click here to post a tweet! If you enjoyed this episode, head over to Podchaser, leave us a review, and follow the show! Follow The Mondoweiss Podcast wherever you listen Amazon Apple Podcasts Audible Deezer Gaana Google Podcasts Overcast Player.fm RadioPublic Spotify TuneIn YouTube Our RSS feed We want your feedback! Email us Leave us an audio message at SparkPipe More from Mondoweiss Subscribe to our free email newsletters: Daily Headlines Weekly Briefing The Shift tracks U.S. politics Palestine Letter West Bank Dispatch Follow us on social media Mastodon Instagram Facebook YouTube Bluesky Twitter WhatsApp Telegram LinkedIn

During this episode, Elle reflects on some of her experiences with intersecting aspects of marginalization, as well as with enjoying privilege. She highlights the AWIS map of intersecting oppressions and privileges (click here), as well as similar diagrams from Sylvia Duckworth (click here). She talks about how she grew from dismissing systemic racism as an adolescent to becoming antiracist as an adult. In addition, she also invites a call to action for those of us who enjoy aspects of privilege in our lives today. Some of the books and ideas mentioned include: The New Jim Crown by Michelle Alexander - https://newjimcrow.com/ Ibram X Kendi's books, "How to be Anti-Racist" and "Stamped" - https://www.ibramxkendi.com/books "Trans Like Me" by CN Lester For this week's show, the question has to do with your commitment to work toward the cause of inclusion and justice. How are you giving yourself to this work today? How would you like to make the world a safer and more beautiful place for all people? What is one way you can commit to the work of justice? Reach out to Elle with your comments and feedback at twatpodcasting@gmail.com

In this episode, Simma The Inclusionist, is joined by Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team. With 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings insight into a system that he believes is broken and in need of reform. They discuss the importance of talking about race, especially in a society where some are trying to criminalize almost everything. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the role of race in America's history.   Time Stamps [00:02:13] Sweeping race conversations under the rug [00:06:03] Internal transformation in prison [00:09:22] Racial disparities in sentencing [00:14:17] Disparities in drug sentencing [00:19:22] Sentencing and racial identity [00:27:35] Systemic racism and incarceration [00:29:14] Challenging the criminal legal system [00:35:27] Systemic racism in criminal justice [00:43:12] Black codes in the criminal legal system [00:45:10] Racism in the criminal justice system [00:49:00] Country music and rap fusion [00:53:42] Show notes available for download   Simma interviews Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, who shares his deeply personal experience with the criminal justice system and the impact of systemic racism. Sean, who was born and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, opens up about his troubled youth, including getting involved in criminal activities such as selling drugs and committing armed robbery. At the age of 17, Sean was arrested and sentenced to 50 years in prison for his crimes. He reflects on the harshness of his sentence, questioning how a judge could sentence a young boy to the same amount of time he had lived on this earth. Sean highlights the racial disparities within the criminal justice system, emphasizing that Black and Brown individuals are often given much harsher sentences compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses. He discusses the historical roots of systemic racism in the criminal justice system, tracing  back to the 13th Amendment and the implementation of Black codes, which restricted the freedom of African Americans and perpetuated a form of slavery through convict leasing. Sean emphasizes that these discriminatory practices continue to target Black and Brown people, leading to disproportionate rates of incarceration. Sean also addresses the issue of racial bias in sentencing, where black individuals are more likely to receive longer sentences compared to white individuals for the same offenses. He highlights the need for judges and prosecutors to view individuals before them as human beings deserving of grace, understanding, and the opportunity for redemption. As the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, Sean is dedicated to closing prison doors and opening doors of opportunity. The organization works in three issue areas: climate justice, tech equity for Black and Brown people, and criminal justice reform. Sean's role involves training and building up leaders to advocate for transformational legislation that will reduce mass incarceration. In terms of recommended resources, Sean suggests reading "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander, which provides a comprehensive analysis of the racial disparities within the criminal justice system. He also recommends "Better Not Bitter" by Yusuf Salaam, one of the Central Park Five, who shares his personal journey of transformation and resilience after being wrongfully convicted. For those interested in gaining a deeper understanding of the criminal justice system, Sean suggests watching the HBO documentary "Growing Up Milwaukee," which follows the lives of young individuals assigned mentors, including Sean, who share their stories to deter them from a life of crime. He also recommends the documentary "13th," which explores the history and impact of mass incarceration in America. To connect with Sean and learn more about Dream.org's work, you can reach out to him via email at seanwilson@dream.org or follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn (Sean Wilson) and Facebook. You can also visit the Dream.org website and follow the organization on Instagram and Facebook for updates and information on their initiatives. This episode sheds light on Sean Wilson's personal experience with race and the criminal justice system and highlights the urgent need for systemic change to address racial disparities and promote justice and equality for all.   Key Takeaways: Systemic racism is deeply rooted in the criminal justice system, leading to racial disparities in sentencing and treatment. Black individuals are often subjected to harsher sentences and less leniency compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses. The criminal justice system perpetuates harm and fails to provide opportunities for redemption and rehabilitation. Advocacy and reform efforts are crucial to address the systemic racism within the criminal justice system. Open and honest conversations about race are necessary to bring about meaningful change and find common ground for solutions. To learn more about Sean Wilson and his work, visit the Dream.org website and follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn and Facebook. Additional resources mentioned include the book "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander and the documentaries "Growing Up Milwaukee" and "13th."   Guest Bio Sean is the Organizing Director at Dream Corps. As someone with 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings an advantage and insight into a system he believes to be broken and in need of reform. Before joining the Dream Corps JUSTICE team, Sean was the ACLU of Wisconsin's Smart Justice Campaign Manager, where he managed the campaign to reform probation and parole. In addition, he also serves as a commissioner on the Governor's Juvenile Justice Commission (GJJC), a State Advisory Group (SAG) that advises the DOJ on its juvenile justice programs and funding decisions and serves as an independent forum to discuss juvenile justice policy issues.   Host Bio Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.” Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)    Connect with me: Instagram Facebook YouTube Twitter LinkedIn Tiktok Website   Previous Episodes Everyday Conversation on Race with Rosalyn Taylor O'Neale (DEI OG for 47 years) Breaking the Chains: Fighting Caste Oppression with Thenmozhi Soundararajan Breaking Barriers: John Blake on Racial Reconciliation   Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

Learn the complicated origin of Juneteenth, get informed about the recent controversy surrounding the holiday, and gain clarity on what Juneteenth means for us today.Your listen next list: The Racial Wealth Gap Has Hardly Budged Since 1963 on Apple & SpotifyShould White People Do Diversity Work? on Apple & SpotifyMentioned:We Need to Talk About Racism in the Criminal Justice System on Apple & SpotifyWhat does Juneteenth Really Mean? by Sean CollinsThe New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander; 13thTo support Marie and get exclusive resources, head to patreon.com/mariebeech. To learn more about Marie's DEI services, head to mariebeecham.com.

According to Ruha Benjamin, we're living inside someone else's imagination. An imagination that  limits our ability to build a more just, liberated world. So, how do we take back our agency and begin to seed something different? Baratunde talks with Princeton professor and founding director of the Just Data Lab, Ruha Benjamin to find out.   SHOW ACTIONS Internally Reflect - Bear witness and create a ripple This one is inspired from Ruha's book Viral Justice: How We Grow the World We Want which says: “…bear witness to the weight of individual and communal protective acts and consider how all of us can be involved in sheltering one another from the rain and sun by cultivating relationships, skills, accountability, and healing.” Think about when you witnessed someone near you perform an act of justice or kindness or protection for another. Was it a big or small act? Did it require courage? How did witnessing that make you feel about the world? Is it something you could repeat and further the impact? Become More Informed - Learn about racial justice  Ruha recommends Rest is Resistance: A Manifesto by Tricia Hersey and The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander both of which you can find on our Bookshop page.   Publicly Participate - Invest in your community using your time & skills Check out ways to invest and get to know your community using your existing skills and experience.  If you're 60+ check out Thirdact.org and Cogenerate.org. If you're 25-59 check out Volunteermatch.org and Catchafire.org. If you're 16-24 check out Civicsunplugged.org and Youthclimatelobby.org.   SHOW NOTES Walk through Breonna's Garden and check out Lady Phoenix's IG for more.  Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast!  Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show! How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He's also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet.    CREDITS How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My guest today is Rafael Mangual. Rafael is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and Head of Research at their policing and public safety initiative. His new book is called "Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts Most".In this episode, we discuss the nationwide push for defunding and de-policing starting in the summer of 2020. We talk about the so-called root causes of crime. We talk about Ava DuVernay's documentary "13th" and Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow". We discuss the causes of mass incarceration. We talk about cash bail and bail reform. We also go on to talk about legalizing weed and much more. -Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code [20COLEMAN] at Manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com and use code [20COLEMAN].-Sign up through wren.co/coleman to make a difference in the climate crisis, and Wren will plant 10 extra trees in your name!-Sign up today at butcherbox.com/COLEMAN to get two, 10 oz New York strip steaks and 8 oz of lobster claw and knuckle meat FREE in your first order.

My guest today is Rafael Mangual. Rafael is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and Head of Research at their policing and public safety initiative. His new book is called "Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts Most". In this episode, we discuss the nationwide push for defunding and de-policing starting in the summer of 2020. We talk about the so-called root causes of crime. We talk about Ava DuVernay's documentary "13th" and Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow". We discuss the causes of mass incarceration. We talk about cash bail and bail reform. We also go on to talk about legalizing weed and much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices