Podcast appearances and mentions of Michelle Alexander

Send us a textThis year marks the 15-year anniversary of the first publication of Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow. The text was praised as challenging the post-racial ethos that rose after the election of Obama by presenting a compelling analysis of mass incarceration driven by anti-black racism creating a permanent under caste in American, akin to the Jim Crow system of the South. While praised as a bible for liberal criminal justice reform advocates, many have questioned the book's limitations and the limited result of the criminal justice reform movement the text spawned. In the episode, Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle director of public policy Dayvon Love and Director of Research Lawrence Grandpre reflect on the legacy of the New Jim Crow, arguing that despite the author intention, the text has been used to focus reform on non-violent drug offenders and cost savings because the Left's inability to directly address their own anxieties around working class Black communities. Despite the book's argument around negative perceptions of Black communities being at the heart of mass incarceration and Democratic Party acquiescence to these super predator stereotypes, the failure of the text to use the lessons of Black radical tradition and indict the left anxieties around the rational decision some Black folk make to carry guns and the reality of violence as part of the realty of white supremacy has led to movement to allow long sentence for minor violent crime counteract the limited progress of releasing folks convicted for drug possession. This has allowed largely symbolic reforms, technocratic, non-profit driven reform like communing sentences for cannabis possession to trade off with policies which would actually empower the communities most impacted by mass incarceration to actively get the resources they need to control the origins that produce public safety in community. Support the showIn Search of Black Power is a Black-owned internet show and podcast. This podcast is sponsored and produced by Leaders of a Beautiful Struggle (LBS). The internet show is published in collaboration with Black Liberation Media (BLM)

Send us a textJoin me for a compelling conversation with my guest, Dameon Wroe. His story is one of struggle, survival, and ultimately, redemption. Growing up in Southern California, Dameon faced challenges early on. After his parents' divorce, he lived with his sister and, by his teenage years, had already experienced run-ins with the police. He learned his lesson and set out to become a police officer, studying law enforcement in college.Music became his avocation. He performed at the Roxy, and was discovered by The Whispers—an iconic R&B group known for hits like "And the Beat Goes On" and "Rock Steady." He landed a record deal with Capitol Records. It seemed like he was on his way to stardom.But life took a drastic turn. While working as a security officer and preparing to enter law enforcement, Dameon found himself on the wrong side of the justice system. He endured the trauma of wrongful accusations, jury trials, and a million-dollar bail that kept him locked up. Books like Just Mercy by Bryan Stevenson and The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander give us a powerful background for Dameon's journey.Dameon just published his fifth book - a captivating account of his painful journey - The Road to Redemption (July 2024). It's the “non-fictional story of an author's relentless pursuit of justice, and full vindication. After being wrongfully arrested and maliciously prosecuted for murder, Dameon tells the truthful version about what happened on the night of January 1, 2004.”Now, as an author, motivational speaker, mentor, and life coach, Dameon draws on his experience to inspire change. Join us on this episode as we unpack the realities of the justice system, share this story of resilience, and spark conversations that matter. SHOW NOTES Support the showBecome a Patron - Click on the link to learn how you can become a Patron of the show. Thank you! Ken's Substack Page The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com

Michelle joins Megan to discuss the essential checks every business owner should be doing. They discuss tracking monthly KPI's, conducting regular business health checks, and why it is important to divide your year into quarters. All their tips and advice will help you start the year in the right way  Bookmark the Vet Rehab Summit: https://vetrehabsummit.com/  Learn more about CuraCore: https://curacore.org/vet/  To learn about Onlinepethealth, watch a free webinar, or join any of our Facebook groups, click here: https://onlinepethealth.com/podcast

Exalting upon high the principle of liberty to smash the pedestal upon which the principle of avaricious profit lays.Tune in to hear my case for the need for our society to dedicate itself to the principle of liberty in an era of growing inequality. I take inspiration from many of the greatest human rights icons, educators, and leaders of the modern eras such as President Obama, Nelson Mandela, Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar, Georges Bernanos, Michelle Alexander and Franklin Delano Roosevelt (FDR).It was becoming increasingly apparent to many people that America was slowly becoming a plutocracy in the late 19th century. Today that is a definite truth. I try to make the case that a society can be dedicated to either liberty or profit, not both at the same time. I also discuss the problems with vested economic interests having power over ethical implications as well as the dangers of tyranny of the majority/mobs, and increased polarization being directly correlated with increased income inequality. Moreover, job insecurity makes it more difficult to people to unionize as people are dissuaded by their bosses who own the means of production. Since the American New Left Movement 1950-1975 there was a strong student and minority movement demanding rights and a more egalitarian society. Today, there is a strong corporate backlash to this movement that has resulted in a shift in power towards big business also fueled by the growth in multinational corporations and globalization.It was not only the original 1st Amendment from the Bill of Rights and 14th Amendment founded at the beginning of Reconstruction that provided protections and judicial precedent there were also the consumer protection laws passed by FDR to provide a social safety net well into the 1960s. Much of this apparatus was dismantled and some of it was recovered under the Obama administration in response to the 2008 recession. The 2011 Occupy Wall Street Movement was sparked by the disillusionment by young people faced with college loans, unemployment, and a housing crisis. I discuss these issues in the podcast and how the spirit of youth in our generation will exalt the principle of liberty to act on our conscience through a grassroots movement to regulate the spirit of avarice due to our societies material decadence and dedication to profit in the current era.

Cześć! Tematem przewodnim tego odcinka jest system więziennictwa w Stanach Zjednoczonych. Do tego zagadnienia podchodzimy za pośrednictwem trzech gatunków literackich: mamy więc przenikliwą analizę faktograficzną, poruszające osobiste świadectwo oraz powieść oferującą plejadę postaci i wielość perspektyw. Na czym polegają nowe prawa Jima Crowa? O czym opowiada niesłusznie skazany człowiek, który spędził prawie trzydzieści lat w celi śmierci? Czy więźniowie i więźniarki walczący na arenie to jeszcze dystopia czy już rzeczywistość? Zapraszamy do wysłuchania naszej rozmowy! Książki, o których mówimy w podkaście, to: Michelle Alexander, „The New Jim Crow”, Penguin; Anthony Ray Hinton i Lara Love Hardin, „The Sun Does Shine”, Penguin; Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah, „Chain-Gang All-Stars”, Vintage. Jeśli spodobał Ci się ten odcinek, możesz nam podziękować na ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Suppi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Zapłacisz bezpiecznie i bez prowizji Blikiem, przelewem czy kartą. A jeśli chcesz zostać z nami na dłużej: wejdź na nasz profil ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patronite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Jeżeli chcesz dołączyć do naszego grona Matronek i Patronów, będziemy zaszczycone! Dla tych, którzy zdecydują się nas wspierać, mamy spersonalizowane książkowe rekomendacje, newslettery głosowe, podziękowania na stronie i wiele więcej. Zachęcamy do odwiedzin na naszym profilu na ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagramie ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠i na ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebooku⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, na naszym kanale ⁠⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠oraz na naszej ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠stronie internetowej⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Intro: http://bit.ly/jennush

This episode begins the multi-part journey that is the story of post-war Burkina Faso. It is so full of characters, twisting plots, love and deceit, violence and intrigue, it would have been a bestseller, had it ever been reported properly. Always remember the name Thomas Sankara!That is the way unfortunately. Once-colonial powers will cling on any way they can and on this occasion, the clinging-on is achieved through disinformation tactics.Burkina Faso is a remarkable country, like so many other African nations, which if left to themselves can prosper in ways nobody thought possible. The world is at a crossroads and we need to make the right choices. We need to become active to guarantee that the indigenous rights of nations are upheld. We need to start today for we should have started years ago.Thank you Esheru once again for your time.Enjoy!The book we refer to in the beginning is called The New Jim Crow and it's by Michelle Alexander.I welcome opinions of every kind so please come and find me on social media at:Instagram: TwoandaMicTwitter: TwoandaMic1Should I really have to ask?

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week it's Part 2 of a two-part conversation with serial entrepreneur and diversity activist, Cherron Perry-Thomas. She is founder and president of Green Dandelion Marketing and Sales which grew out of a desire to introduce retailers to innovative plant based products. Since its founding, 20 years ago, Green Dandelion has helped their clients launch more than 2,000 products in grocery and health stores in the mid-Atlantic United States. Clients include manufactures of biodynamic, organic, non-gmo, vegan and fair trade products, helping to solidify their commitment to leaving a positive impact on the planet and all lives. which she further nurtures as co-owner of Plant and People (https://plantandpeople.com), a Black women's owned boutique offering house plants, supplies, plant wellness products, services, and gifts. A certified Social Impact Strategist, she applies these skills as the Director of Social Impact for The Diasporic Alliance for Cannabis Opportunities (DACO), a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness about educational, wellness, and economic opportunities in the cannabis industry and particularly through the Black Cannabis Week (https://www.blackcannabisweek.com/) Initiative which takes place September 22-29, 2024. Whether you're a “planty” person or not, there's plenty of green gems to pick up in this conversation. Where to find Cherron? On LInkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherron-perry-thomas-mba-643a251a/) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/munashe97/?hl=en) On X (https://x.com/wearedaco/status/1055867698620653576) What's Charron running in? Hoka running shoes (https://www.hoka.com/en/us/) Other topics of interest: About Memphis, Tennessee (https://civilrightstrail.com/destination/memphis/) About Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (https://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/african-american-historic-sites-in-philadelphia/) West Philadelphia History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Philadelphia) Ever heard of Purple Hull Peas (https://specialtyproduce.com/produce/Purple_Hull_Peas_4399.php#:~:text=Also%20known%20as%20Pinkeye%20Purple,slightly%20in%20appearance%20and%20flavor.)? Walter Wallace Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Walter_Wallace) Who was Fred Hampton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton)? Black August (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_August_(commemoration)) About to the Roots Picnic (https://therootspicnic.com) The New Jim Crow (linkhttps://newjimcrow.com) by Michelle Alexander About the US Farm Bill (https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-bill/index) UN Report on Drugs 2018 (https://www.unodc.org/wdr2018/) Cannabis legalization around the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis) Special Guest: Cherron Perry-Thomas.

Greetings Glocal Citizens! This week it's Part 1 of a two-part conversation with serial entrepreneur and diversity activist, Cherron Perry-Thomas. She is founder and president of Green Dandelion Marketing and Sales which grew out of a desire to introduce retailers to innovative plant based products. Since its founding, 20 years ago, Green Dandelion has helped their clients launch more than 2,000 products in grocery and health stores in the mid-Atlantic United States. Clients include manufactures of biodynamic, organic, non-gmo, vegan and fair trade products, helping to solidify their commitment to leaving a positive impact on the planet and all lives. which she further nurtures as co-owner of Plant and People (https://plantandpeople.com), a Black women's owned boutique offering house plants, supplies, plant wellness products, services, and gifts. A certified Social Impact Strategist, she applies these skills as the Director of Social Impact for The Diasporic Alliance for Cannabis Opportunities (DACO), a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness about educational, wellness, and economic opportunities in the cannabis industry and particularly through the Black Cannabis Week (https://www.blackcannabisweek.com/) Initiative which takes place September 22-29, 2024. Whether you're a “planty” person or not, there's plenty of green gems to pick up in this conversation. Where to find Cherron? On LInkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherron-perry-thomas-mba-643a251a/) On Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/munashe97/?hl=en) On X (https://x.com/wearedaco/status/1055867698620653576) What's Charron running in? Hoka running shoes (https://www.hoka.com/en/us/) Other topics of interest: About Memphis, Tennessee (https://civilrightstrail.com/destination/memphis/) About Philadelphia, Pennsylvania (https://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/african-american-historic-sites-in-philadelphia/) West Philadelphia History (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Philadelphia) Ever heard of Purple Hull Peas (https://specialtyproduce.com/produce/Purple_Hull_Peas_4399.php#:~:text=Also%20known%20as%20Pinkeye%20Purple,slightly%20in%20appearance%20and%20flavor.)? Walter Wallace Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Walter_Wallace) Who was Fred Hampton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton)? Black August (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_August_(commemoration)) About to the Roots Picnic (https://therootspicnic.com) The New Jim Crow (linkhttps://newjimcrow.com) by Michelle Alexander About the US Farm Bill (https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-bill/index) UN Report on Drugs 2018 (https://www.unodc.org/wdr2018/) Cannabis legalization around the world (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis) Special Guest: Cherron Perry-Thomas.

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/african-american-studies

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/history

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/american-studies

Do we understand racism as the primary driving engine of American inequality? Or do we focus instead on the indirect ways that frequently hard-to-discern class inequality and inegalitarian power relations can produce racially differentiated outcomes? Adaner Usmani, Assistant Professor of Sociology and Social Studies at Harvard and on the editorial board at Catalyst joined Elizabeth and John back in Fall, 2020, to wrestle with the subtle and complex genealogy of Southern plantation economy and its racist legacy. Adaner offers a complex genealogy of violence, mass incarceration and their roots in the social inequity (and iniquity) of antebellum economic relations. He emphasizes a frequently overlooked fact that a century ago Du Bois had already identified a key issue: the belatedness of African-American access to the social mobility offered by the North's industrialization, thanks to structures of a racist Southern agricultural economy that kept African-American workers away from those high-wage jobs. The result? An explanation for racial injustice that hinges on ossified class imbalances--contingent advantages for certain groups that end up producing (rather than being produced by) bigotry and prejudice. Adaner Usmani and John Clegg, "The Economic Origins of Mass Incarceration" (Catalyst 3:3, 2019) Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness (2010) Robin Einhorn, American Taxation, American Slavery (2006) Richard Rothstein, The Color of Law (2017) Kenneth Jackson, Crabgrass Frontier (1987) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this riveting episode, we delve into the resurgence of racial injustices in the U.S. through legal channels, opinions and public policy, critiquing the belief in a post-racial society and emphasizing White Supremacy's lingering influence. We highlight significant legal and historical contexts, and also address recent lawsuits targeting programs designed to support racial minorities, arguing against the so-called colorblind policies and advocating for race-conscious measures to achieve true equality. Sources used in the making of this episode: "The New Jim Crow." Michelle Alexander. "Stamped From The Beginning." Ibram X. Kendi. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/13/magazine/civil-rights-affirmative-action-colorblind.html https://19thnews.org/2023/11/affirmative-action-backlash-maternal-health-program-black-women/ https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/affirmative-action-killer-ed-blum-supreme-court-strategy.html https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/society-equity/conservative-activist-uses-civil-war-era-law-challenge-us-corporate-diversity-2023-09-25/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/08/29/john-hopkins-legacy-racial-diversity/ https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/american-medical-association-body-mass-index-racially-biased/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ayana-fakhir6/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ayana-fakhir6/support

In her introduction to Dorsey Nunn's book, Michelle Alexander quoted Toni Morrison: “Just remember that your real job is that if your free, you need to free somebody else. If you have some power, then your job is to empower somebody else.” Alexander notes, “I've known Dorsey for two decades. I've watched him grow and evolve into an extraordinary thinker and leader, someone who has helped to birth and shape movements that are changing the course of history.” Dorsey and others launched the “ban the box” movement, Alexander writes, “Because of the heroic work of Dorsey and all those in the organizations that he led or cofounded, and the powerful movements that he has helped to build, barrier to employment, housing, education and more have begun to fall away for millions of people…” This week on Everyday Injustice, we talk to Dorsey Nunn, who just released his memoirs, “What Kind of Bird Can't Fly,” and he describes his story of going from a life sentence to a leader in criminal justice reform.

Dive into the complex history of America's drug war with George Fisher, former Massachusetts Attorney General and acclaimed scholar of criminal law. In his latest book, "Beware Euphoria," Fisher explores the moral and racial dimensions of drug prohibition, challenging conventional narratives. Join the conversation on Stanford Legal as Fisher discusses the impact of racial justice movements on drug policy, including the legalization of cannabis, offering profound insights into a contentious issue shaping legal and social discourse.Connect:Episode Transcripts >>> Stanford Legal Podcast WebsiteStanford Legal Podcast >>> LinkedIn PageRich Ford >>>  Twitter/XPam Karlan >>> Stanford Law School PageStanford Law School >>> Twitter/XStanford  Law Magazine >>> Twitter/XLinks:George Fisher >>> Stanford Law School PageBeware Euphoria: The Moral Roots and Racial Myths of America's War on Drugs(00:00:00) Chapter 1: The Origins of Drug Prohibition Podcast guest, George Fisher, traces the history of drug prohibition, highlighting the departure of cannabis use from medical preservation. He also discusses the 19th-century roots of drug prohibition, particularly the moral concerns driving the anti-drug laws.(00:11:42) Chapter 2: Racial Narratives and Mass IncarcerationRich Ford discusses the common narrative linking mass incarceration to the war on drugs and its alleged racial motivations. Fisher challenges this narrative, arguing that early drug laws were about protecting whites' moral purity rather than targeting people of color. The conversation explores the racial dynamics of early drug laws, emphasizing the racism of indifference rather than explicit targeting.(00:20:20) Chapter 3: Moral Valence of Mind-Altering Drugs Fisher delves into the historical moral perceptions of mind-altering drugs, tracing back to Early Christian notions of reason and morality.He explains why certain drugs, like opium and later marijuana, were seen as threats to moral character, while alcohol was treated differently due to its varied uses.(00:26:15) Chapter 4: Legalization of Marijuana and Racial Justice The conversation shifts to the legalization of marijuana, highlighting its historical bans and recent movements towards legalization. Concerns about the increasing potency of marijuana and its potential backlash are explored, suggesting a need for careful regulation and messaging.(00:30:19) Conclusion: Closing RemarksRich Ford wraps up the conversation with George Fisher discussing insights and emphasizing the importance of discussing the ongoing struggle with drugs and intoxicants.

“Only revolutionary love can save us now.” Michelle Alexander, author of The New Jim Crow: Mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness. Uplift your humanity! Be informed about how our children - and families- are suffering the inhumane, genocidal sentence of LWOP, life without the possibility of parole…when you're informed and honest, you can act in revolutionary love.

Headlines for March 13, 2024; What Is Israel’s Goal in Lebanon? Increasing Cross-Border Attacks Risk Expanding the Gaza War; Rami Khouri: U.S. Airdrops & Floating Pier Plan Are “Not Serious Responses” to Gaza Suffering; “Revolutionary Love”: Michelle Alexander on Gaza, Solidarity, MLK & What Gives Her Hope; Warning to America: Hungarian Green on Authoritarianism as Trump Hosts PM Viktor Orbán at Mar-a-Lago

Starting with the Black Panthers and working our way to the present, we're getting a crash course on Black American history, decade by decade. When it comes to the Black Panthers and the Black Power movement, myths and misconceptions abound. In this episode, we set the record straight. Learn what they really stood for, what truths get distorted, and how their influence is still shaping the modern antiracism movement today.Your listen next list: What You Need to Know About the Affirmative Action Ruling on Apple & SpotifyThe War on Drugs, Racism in the Criminal Justice System on Apple & SpotifyTo support Marie and get exclusive resources, head to patreon.com/mariebeech. To learn more about Marie's DEI services, head to mariebeecham.com.Sources: History, How the Black Power Movement Influenced the Civil Rights Movement; NMAAHC, The Foundations of Black Power; Britannica, War On Drugs - History & Mass Incarceration; AJC, Million Man March: A Day of Atonement; Briannica, Los Angelos Riots of 1992; What We Don't Learn About the Black Panther Party — but Should; The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander.

Women's Magazine hosts Margo Okazawa-Rey and Jovelyn Richards talk with award-winning free lance journalist and author Thandisizwe Chimurenga about her  collection of interviews in the book  “Some of Us Are Brave: Interviews and Conversations With Sistas in Life and Struggle” and her second volume “Some Of Us Are Brave (Vol 2): Interviews and Conversations with Sistas in Life and Struggle” two books that counter the  white supremacy and cis-heterosexual patriarchy (and by extension, misogyny) of our society that  by definition belittles and ignores the voices of women of color in general and Black women in particular (misogynoir). Part of the corrective to white patriarchal supremacy is  the centering and airing of Black women's voices through Some of Us Are Brave: A Black Women's Radio Program that aired on Pacifica-Los Angeles (KPFK 90.7 FM) from 2003 until 2011. The program covered a myriad of issues by amplifying the voices of a broad cross-section of Black women. Some of those voices have been preserved as transcripts and they primarily make up this work. Based on interviews with Asata Shakur, Barbara Ramsy, Carol Boyce-Davies, Euzhan Palcy, Michelle Alexander, Evelyn White, Paula Giddings, Pearl Cleage, Ramona Africa and Sisters on the Run.   Thandisizwe Chimurenga is an award-winning, freelance journalist based in Los Angeles, CA. She has written for New America Media; the Los Angeles Watts Times, Sentinel and Wave newspapers; the Final Call; Black Agenda Report; Ebony; CounterPunch, Truth-Out and Daily Kos. She is a former radio reporter for the KPFK Evening News (Pacifica-Los Angeles) and Free Speech Radio News (FSRN). A creator or co-creator of independent, grassroots media (newspapers, cable tv, radio) for over 20 years, her activism has ranged from electoral organizing; anti-police terror work; freedom for political prisoners and prisoners of war; to organizing against violence against women. The post Some of Us Are Brave: Interviews and Conversations With Sistas in Life and Struggle with Thandisizwe Chimurenga appeared first on KPFA.

(Content warning for discussion of violence in a war zone, including against children). A preview of last month's bonus episode on Israel and Palestine. In this clip, Jonathan and Sy talk about how they both approach thinking about the occupation as people leaving colonized faith. The full episode covers the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, how to engage media and advocacy on this subject in an emotionally healthy way, and a lot more! To hear the whole episode, and all our bonus episodes, plus read our weekly newsletter, subscribe at KTFPress.com.The transcript of this preview is available here: https://open.substack.com/pub/ktfpress/p/preview-humanity-nuance-and-justice-f6bMentioned in the clip:-        The YouTube clip of President Biden speaking about Israel as a senator-        The event about Palestine featuring a discussion with Michelle Alexander, Ta-Nihisi Coates, and Dr. Rashid Khalidi [the discussion begins at 26:40 in the linked video]Shake the Dust is a podcast of KTF Press. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Transcripts of every episode are available at KTFPress.com/s/transcripts.HostsJonathan Walton – follow him on Facebook and Instagram.Sy Hoekstra – follow him on Mastodon.Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.Production and editing by Sy Hoekstra.Transcript by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.Questions about anything you heard on the show? Write to shakethedust@ktfpress.com and we may answer your question on a future episode. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com/subscribe

We share several important clips that link Israeli atrocities with US atrocities that you may have missed while celebrating Thanksgiving. We share the voices of Ta-Nehisi Coates, Michelle Alexander, and Rashid Khalidi from a show aired on Democracy Now and then Norman Finkelstein from an interview he did with Krystal Ball on Breaking Points. All related personal experiences showed how what is going on in Gaza by Israel (with our taxpayer complicity) is connected to what the US has been doing for a long time. Alexander relates the words of Dr. King, Coates the connection to the lives of his parents and grandparents, Khalidi and our genocide of Native Americans, Finkelstein with Nat Turner.

Join us as we conclude our ‘Real Parenting” series, with this last episode on Navigating the IEP Process. Listen in as Michelle Alexander shares her experience as a teacher navigating the process, giving us practical ways to begin, how to advocate for your child, and next steps to take to ensure your child is successful in school.   Other Recommended Resources:Care to Change blogs Parenting From The Inside Out  Other Care to Change recommended resources First Aid For Families Text us your thoughts or questions at our Care Line: 317-979-7133For more information about Care to Change visit  www.caretochange.orgFollow Care to Change on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/CaretoChange.org/Follow Care to Change on Instagram @care_to_changeIf you would like someone to come speak to your group, contact us for more details or schedule an appt today. 

“The Mandates of Conscience”: Michelle Alexander on Israel, Gaza, MLK & Speaking Out in a Time of War; Ta-Nehisi Coates and Rashid Khalidi on Israeli Occupation, Apartheid & the 100-Year War on Palestine

“The Mandates of Conscience”: Michelle Alexander on Israel, Gaza, MLK & Speaking Out in a Time of War; Ta-Nehisi Coates and Rashid Khalidi on Israeli Occupation, Apartheid & the 100-Year War on Palestine

(Content warning for discussion of violence in a war zone, including against children). For this month's bonus episode, Jonathan and Sy are talking about the conflict in Israel and Palestine. They discuss how they both approach thinking about the occupation as people leaving colonized faith, the difference between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, how to engage media and advocacy on this subject in an emotionally healthy way, and a lot more. Please write in to shakethedust@ktfpress.com to let us know what you think about the episode, or to ask us any questions you have!Mentioned in the episode:* Adam Serwer's piece on not equating anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism* Peter Beinart's Substack, The Beinart Notebook* The YouTube clip of President Biden speaking about Israel as a senator* The New York Times' reporting from its interviews with leaders of Hamas.* The event about Palestine featuring a discussion with Michelle Alexander, Ta-Nihisi Coates, and Dr. Rashid Khalidi [the discussion begins at 26:40 in the linked video]Correction: in the episode, Sy said that dozens of babies died at a hospital in Gaza when the NICU lost power. In fact, the hospital could not provide incubators for about 36 premature babies after the bombing. Five died as a direct consequence. A third of all babies at the hospital were critically ill when the hospital was finally evacuated, and all had serious infections. We at KTF do not know Their ultimate fate at the moment. We apologize for the inaccuracy.Shake the Dust is a podcast of KTF Press. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Transcripts of every episode are available at KTFPress.com/s/transcripts.HostsJonathan Walton – follow him on Facebook and Instagram.Sy Hoekstra – follow him on Mastodon.Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.Production and editing by Sy Hoekstra.Transcript by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.Questions about anything you heard on the show? Write to shakethedust@ktfpress.com and we may answer your question on a future episode.Transcript[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending — F#, B, F#, E, D#, B — with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Sy Hoekstra: Why is Israel such an appealing idea? It's because Jewish people have faced so many thousands of years of oppression, everywhere they've gone. The dream of having a place where your oppressed people can be free and flourish, it's not hard to sympathize with that at all, right? It's one of the most natural human instincts. The problem is like Jonathan said before, the way this world is ordered, the easiest way to accomplish that is to trample other people.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, leaving colonized faith for the kingdom of God. I'm Jonathan Walton.Sy Hoekstra: And I'm Sy Hoekstra, welcome to this bonus episode. We haven't done one of these in a long time, Jonathan. But we are going to be talking today about Israel and Palestine and everything that's been going on over there. And we're going to introduce a new segment a little bit. Not a little bit—we're introducing a new segment today. We're going to be trying something out that we might then try on the regular show in the future, where we're going to be talking about one of our recommendations from our newsletter, just like in a little bit more detail before we jump into the topic of the show. Sometimes they will have to do with the topic of the show, sometimes they won't, the recommendations we talk about. Today it does.We're going to talk about the great piece that Adam Serwer wrote in The Atlantic that Jonathan highlighted last week. If you're listening to this the day it comes out, last week. But before we get into all that, one quick thing, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Yep, we have one favor to ask of you and that is to go to Apple or Spotify and give this show a five-star rating. If it's four, you can keep it to yourself [Sy laughs], but five stars, that'll be great. It's a quick and easy way, and a free way to support us. And it makes us look really, really great when other people look us up. So please go to Apple or Spotify and give us that five star rating. And if you're on Apple, please do leave us a quick review. We'd really appreciate it. Thank you so much.Sy Hoekstra: We would. Jonathan, don't make jokes just after I've taken a sip of tea, I almost spat that on my microphone.[laughter]One quick note up top, we know how hard this conversation is for people in so many different ways, and there are a lot of different angles. If you just listen to the first couple minutes, you'll only hear our thoughts on a couple different angles of this. So we would ask you to listen with us all the way through to hear whole perspectives, because there's a lot to talk about and a lot to take in. And also just take care of yourself, any specific trigger warnings will be in the show notes.Alright, let's get started. We'll get into this. So Adam Serwer wrote this piece in The Atlantic about not conflating anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. And Jonathan, why don't you tell us what he wrote?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. So Serwer defines Zionism as, quote, the belief that the Jews should have a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland.” And that argument then goes on that if you're against that idea, you're denying Jews a right that everyone else has in the world which is inherently discriminatory. So Serwer writes, “There's nothing anti-Semitic about anti-Zionists who believe that the existence of a religious or ethnically defined state is inherently racist, and that the only real solution to the conflict is, as Palestinian-American advocate, Yousef Munayyer writes, ‘equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians is a single shared state, end quote, with a constitution that would ‘that the country would be home to both peoples and that despite national narratives and voices on either side that claim otherwise, both people have historical ties to the land,' end quote. Perhaps you think this idea is naive or unrealistic; that is not an expression of prejudice towards Jews.”Now, he also points out that there have been Jewish voices throughout history and today who make the case for this one-state anti-Zionist solution.Sy Hoekstra: Including one of your former professors, Peter Beinart [pronounced bean-art] Beinart [pronounced Bine-art]?.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Beinart [Bine-art].Sy Hoekstra: Beinart. Okay.Jonathan Walton: Yes, if you don't read Peter Beinart stuff, please go subscribe to his Substack, and then read all of the wonderful, wonderful analyses he does on Israel and Palestine. And he's been doing this for decades.Sy Hoekstra: Okay. Thank you for that summary Jonathan. So, now tell us why did you pick this and what are your thoughts on it? Why did you pick this article?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think I picked this article for two reasons. One is that he makes an argument that everybody makes, and then he makes one that very few people know about. So the first one is that we need to be able to say with distinct clarity and conciseness, that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Now, if we conflate the two, it's helpful for people who have certain agendas. But if we're actually trying to love people well, and see them for who they are, and not just politicize them into entities that we can deny or dismiss or destroy, then we have to be able to say that Palestinians are not Hamas. That the political ideologies that govern us are not held by every single person, especially if you are a child in an incubator, right?We have to be able to see people apart from the ideas that oppress and marginalize them, or the ideas that we have about them. And so that argument for me, particularly in somewhere like The Atlantic, which has made unhelpful articles, by the way, since the conflict started, but Adam just writes a great, concise, clear argument around the nuances necessary. The second thing is that if we are about creating theocratic states that are tied to ethnicity, we are creating states that are racist and exclusatory. Exclusionary?Sy Hoekstra: Exclusionary [laughs]. You just made up a new word, exclusatory.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Exclusatory. They are inherently racist and exclusionary, and we need to lean into that a little bit more, I think. Because if we are desiring to set up religious ethno-states, we are creating spaces that will be inherently oppressive to people who are outside of that social hierarchy. That is what will happen. So if we are going to create political realities that then create social realities, because politics, like the Greek is like how people, social people deal with power, then we are going to create structures that oppress and marginalize. That's what's going to happen. And so there needs to actually be not a two-state solution, in my opinion, but a one-state solution where people can actually pursue nuance and prosperity and flourishing together.It's not a popular opinion, or popularly talked about opinion, but I do think that is the one that's actually going to lead to prosperity and peace in the region. That's my hope and my prayer when I engage with these things, and I'm grateful that Adam Serwer wrote the piece and it was published.Sy Hoekstra: That's interesting cause Serwer actually doesn't, he's like, “I don't really care one state, two state, whatever works for peace and harmony, that's fine with me. I'm just pointing out what I think should be a point of engagement for people talking about the issue.”Jonathan Walton: Yes, that's true.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, that's good. I like this one. This wasn't my, this is your pick in the newsletter, but I love Adam Serwer [laughs], just in general. We've recommended him, I've recommended him before in the newsletter too. Part of the reason I think it's important is because like you said in the newsletter, that just the noise of the conflict, the intensity of the emotions around it makes it really hard for a point like this that is relatively simple to land. And there are just, there are a lot of people... I mean, I was reading yesterday about how the Anti-Defamation League, which is a well known Jewish organization that kind of monitors extremism of all kinds, not just anti-Semitism, but they focus on that a lot, is now labeling any protests calling for a ceasefire as anti-Semitic—or as anti-Israel. Just calling for a ceasefire.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: That's like the lack of nuance isn't even… there are like grown adults…[laughter]…grown, well-educated adults, saying things that are absolutely wild, because people's emotions and ideologies and all kinds of ideas around this topic are just, they swirl and make a bunch of noise, like you said. And I just appreciate it when somebody says something that everyone needs to understand in an exceptionally clear way.Jonathan Walton: Right. To add to that though, I think what is problematic is that there are major news outlets that interview people that say things like that. Like to be pro-Palestine is to be inherently anti-Semitic. And then they go unchallenged. They go one question and they move on to the next discussion. It's not just that the stuff is out there, it's that it's not challenged and then it's not questioned at all. So the conflation moves forward as fact for millions of people every day. And I hope that there are more leaders that will say, actually, let's slow down and separate the two.Sy Hoekstra: Yep. And we will talk about how to slow down and separate things in a minute. Let's jump into the broader discussion then. Let's just start with where we're coming from when we talk about this with Israel and Palestine. Where we start from, what's our starting point and how do we think about the issues? Jonathan, do you want to…? You've already like intimated a little bit about what you think, but why don't you give us a little more?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean, I think the starting point for me, I immediately go to the historical context of how and why Israel came to be, and then how and—the State of Israel came to be in 1948—and the United States' and the West's role in that. I dive there immediately just so that I can step out of trying to throw on Old Covenant language, try to graft myself onto some larger cosmic story from God, and just say, “No, that actually wasn't it.” Let me resist that temptation. Because it is so easy to want to be right when we're angry, upset, frustrated, sad, grieving, and an attack like what Hamas did on October 7th can lead to that. I think the big picture is where I start and where I end is just mothers holding their dying children. Those two images for me are really, really, really, really difficult to hold on to.Sy Hoekstra: And even by the way, you mentioned the ICU before, I think.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Just in case people don't know, like a day or two ago, the hospital that was bombed toward the beginning of the fighting was bombed again and the power went out.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So the incubators in the ICU were not working and a few dozen children, babies died as a result.Jonathan Walton: Right. And I mean, yeah, that just doesn't have to, it just doesn't have to happen. It just doesn't have to happen. And if you follow me on Instagram, I've tried to post… [choking up]Sy Hoekstra: Take your time.Jonathan Walton: …the same photo every day. There's a short video of a woman just holding her kid, and they put… like all of the remains are just in bags. White bags. And that I think… I don't post other videos because I think they're too… Just, I mean, I don't want people to be… Like, even some things are too unsettling for me, and I don't think Instagram is helpful and how they just bombard people with images to keep them on algorithm. But this this particular video, I do share because I think it speaks to the lack of humanity and the humanity… the lack of humanity of what's happening to them and the humanity of what is happening when you lose a child. And it doesn't have to be that way. It just doesn't.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Thanks.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I think I start at a similar place. The beginning point for me is 1948. The context for everything that is happening is the fact that 750,000 Palestinians were forced off of their land. And since then, in order to maintain, they were forced off their land in order to create space for settlers to come in and create this state, and then have decades of basically violence to maintain that situation. And I think like Jonathan said, if there's a settler situation like that, at no point in history have you ever had hundreds of thousands of people kicked off their land and forced into another place and forced to live as second class citizens under a regime that is fundamentally not built for them and not had violence as a response.Which is not the same as me saying I don't hold Hamas responsible for what they've done. It just means if you're going to have a state like Israel, there's going to be a violent response every single time. And you're going to have to have continuous escalations of violence in order to maintain a situation like that, because you kicked hundreds of thousands of people off their land. And if you don't start from that point and say, how do we go back and do something about that fundamental problem that founding the State of Israel created, you're never going to solve anything, right? There's going to be no… if the only discussion is, “We're here, all the international community says we deserve to be here, the Bible says we deserve to be here, this is our land, nobody else matters,” then you're never going to stop having violence.And by the way, Palestinians live in a lot of different places, they don't just live in Palestine. You're never going to stop having Palestinians, you're never going to stop having the idea of Palestine. A huge percentage of Jordan's population is Palestinians. There are Palestinians in Egypt. There are Palestinians all over the world, it's not going away. And any other framing is just not going to get you to any sort of solution that deals with anything real. For me, like the one state, two state—I don't know the details. I'm just saying you're going to have to address the fact that all these people's land was taken, and they were forced off of it, and there's been an enormous amount of violence and discrimination in order to maintain that situation, and if you don't, this attack from Hamas will not be the last.It's the same thing, 9/11 didn't happen in a vacuum either, right? That happened… again, I hold the people who did it responsible for their actions, but it's also not surprising. That it happened at all is not surprising.The other point I wanted to make is that just like, people call it a colonizing project in Israel, and people are confused a lot of times by that framing of it. But it's not as confusing when you understand how invested the West is in it. Like effectively we are the colonizing country.Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: Like the United States and Britain and France to a certain degree, we have all had a hand in this because we want an ally in the region. It is about our foreign policy interests. That's why Israel was created in the first place.That's the only reason they had the political will to do it in the first place, and that's the only reason it continues to exist. Because another reality of the situation is Israel is surrounded by people who would destroy it if it wasn't being protected by bigger countries like us. And they're there because we want them to be there and because they serve our interests in a lot of ways, our foreign policy interests. And I think part of the reason that we don't see it this way, or that Americans especially are primed not to see it this way, is because of the kind of racist colonialist way that we see our own country.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Right? Like we do not… So many Americans, so many Christians in particular—talk about a concrete example of colonized faith, of theology that supports colonization—we talk about American exceptionalism and how we've been blessed by God and how we've accomplished all these great things, and nothing about all the people that were displaced and killed and enslaved and exploited to get to where we are. Like we are so used to that, just celebrating America and not thinking about any of the things that happened as a result. I was just watching something with Rashid Khalidi who's a Palestinian-American historian, and he was just like “A Native American reservation, Palestine, the places where Black people were forced to live in South Africa in apartheid; It's all the same thing.”You're just forcing people to live somewhere so that your colonialist project can stand. And the point is that we're used to talking about self-determination and self-governance. Like us in the United States, we say, “We fought against Britain because we had the inalienable right to govern ourselves,” with no thought to the fact that we were denying the right to govern themselves to a bunch of other people.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] That is a fundamental part of how America thinks of itself, that kind of doublespeak [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Self-determination for us, but not for the people that we don't want to give it to. So it's not really a surprise that we have no issue saying, “Oh yeah, this state Israel, has self-determination, and we're going to make sure that they continue to have that” with no regard for all the self-determination that they are denying to the people within their borders.Jonathan Walton: Yes. I mean, embedded in our political reality in the United States and all of the economic and social tentacles downstream of that is radical hypocrisy.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And are socially accepted. Morally, I'm using my big, huge finger quotes, morally justifiable hypocrisy.Oh, and something that I wish Christians understood, which is why I think I enter back in where like where I come into it because I try to stay in a lane to stay grounded, is that like the economic and political and militaristic interests of the United States are not how Jesus runs foreign policy. The idea that the, let's say, the Roman government fits so beautifully with Jesus' desire for the beloved community makes absolutely, positively no sense. And so if you are a follower of Jesus listening to this podcast and you're thinking to yourself, “We should wholeheartedly put just a platform where the kingdom of God is the same as a platform of a political party,” then we are radically out of step with Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the apostles and anything before or after that we are sitting in with in Scripture, which is missing it completely.Because Jesus says, “We will be known by the fruit that we bear,” and the fruit of the United States, just like Sy was saying, when Joe Biden stood up in Congress in 1986 and said, as he was fighting for $3 billion worth of funding to go to Israel, he said, “This is the best $3 billion investment we can make, because if Israel didn't exist, we would have to make it exist to secure our interests in the region.”Sy Hoekstra: That is a clip available on YouTube if you want to go watch it.[laughter]Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I should also say or we should also note, this is implicitly obvious, but we do not come at this from a position of like interpreting the dream in the book of Revelation to figure out who needs to own Israel and when in order to bring about the apocalypse [laughs], or anything like that.Jonathan Walton: Oh Lord… [laughs]Sy Hoekstra: I'm laughing as I say it because it is funny, but you have to note it because that is a dominant view in American Christianity.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: It's not a dominant view in the church in any way, like the global church, but it's the dominant view here. And again, it's not surprising to me that it is a dominant view here, because it is a view that fits very nicely with American foreign policy.Jonathan Walton: Yes. I will also say, and this is not in our notes, but we don't come at this also coming at it thinking that this is some… when we are noting the interests of the United States and Western interests in foreign policy to set this up, we are not then endorsing some grand conspiracy theory about Jewish people.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, yeah, that's a good point to make. We're actually doing the opposite of that.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: We're saying, unfortunately, like sadly, what I'm saying is, I think the Jewish state and the global Jewish people have been,Jonathan Walton: Apro—Sy Hoekstra: like their really genuine cause has been used, has been appropriated as you were about to say.Jonathan Walton: right.Sy Hoekstra: They're pawns in the schemes of America's foreign policy interests. I think that's what it comes down to. By the way, a lot of other... this is not just Israel. Like a lot of times Hamas is a pawn of Iran or Russia. Like a lot of times this is… the Middle East and all these fights, we'll talk about this more, a lot of people are being used for other people's interests.That is generally what is happening in so many conflicts in the Middle East, like they are proxy wars for other people and other people's interests. Okay, so Jonathan, you mentioned the importance, and this actually goes nicely into what we were about to talk about, that which is the importance of separating the people of these two countries or of these two places, I guess. Of Israel and Palestine from their governments. Why is that such an important point to you?Jonathan Walton: Yeah, I think it's an important point because people are not always in control or responsible for what those who govern and control them do in the world. It's often that they don't agree. It's often that they don't endorse. It's often if they had power, they would actually stop it. But unfortunately because of how our world is ordered, children can't stop what their parents do. Employees can't stop what their bosses and supervisors do. Like if I held a child responsible for the abuse of their parents, then we have a serious problem, because in all of these interactions there's power and resources at play. So to say that a child or their mother is responsible for rockets firing from wherever, and then therefore you can take a missile and destroy that hospital or destroy that ambulance, or destroy that convoy that you just told to go into this corridor, there's serious, serious problems with that.Similarly, if you are sitting on the other side of the wall downstream of oppression, it is radically unhelpful, radically wrong, to maim and kill and shoot and kidnap people who may not, and particularly an activist that I'm thinking of, she was actually someone who was helping the Palestinians get into hospitals in Israel and get the health care that they need, and she was kidnapped. So I think we have to understand that people are not necessarily endorsers or enforcers of the policies of the governments that govern them.Sy Hoekstra: Right. And you can't talk about them as monoliths. I mean, like you were just mentioning, there's actually a number of people who were killed or kidnapped by Hamas who were peace advocates, who were actually people who are very much on the side of Palestine. That doesn't matter to Hamas. There's no difference to them. And it's the same thing. I mean, actually, the Hamas leadership, just a couple days ago The New York Times published an interview with a bunch of the members of Hamas leadership, and the stuff they cop to is unbelievable. I mean, it's like stuff that people kind of already knew about them, but the fact they just come out and say it, like that they absolutely knew what the response of Israel would be to their attack. And they knew that a ton of people would die as a result. And they were just like, “That's just the price that we're paying to get this issue back on the map, basically.” Right?Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the specific reason they're doing it was because Israel was attempting to normalize diplomatic relationships with Saudi Arabia and some other Middle Eastern countries, and they didn't want that to happen. They don't want Israel to become normalized in the Arab world, and they want more people talking about Palestine. So they killed a bunch of Israelis and then they knew that as a result, a bunch of their people would die. And that's just like, to them it's just totally is what it is. It's wild. It's not wild, I guess, it's how a lot of terrorists operate. But on the other side, there are plenty of Israelis and there are plenty of Jews around the world who are completely against what the government of Israel does.And the government of Israel right now is one of the most far-right, Jewish supremacist governments they've ever had. And so it's… I wholeheartedly agree with the point that you cannot talk about the conflict in a helpful or nuanced way without I think, realizing that.Jonathan Walton: Right. I also lean into the fact, and this I think, is something we also have to hold tightly, even though it's really, really slippery. Is that even soldiers don't believe in the policies and the actions sometimes that they are forced to carry out. There are a number of IDF soldiers, and reserves and people who have left saying, “I don't want to be a part of this.” And just like you had soldiers coming back from Iraq, coming back from Afghanistan saying, “I thought that I was going for this one thing, and I went for something else. And I ended up fighting for my comrades, like fighting for my battalion. I'm not fighting for this country, I'm caught up in a conflict and I feel like a pawn.”Because I think we have to lean into the complexities of the power that people have, not just that the power we think they have, the power that we perceive. Because behind every gun, and before every gun is a person. They're people. The person who's sending the bullet, the person being hit by the bullet, the person that's dropping the bomb, the person that the bomb is dropped on. They're people, and if we're able to see the image of God and one another, then maybe we could slow down before we dehumanize people and think that violence is justified.Sy Hoekstra: I think that's a good transition for us into Jonathan, how do we in engage with the issues at hand here without burning out or just trying to avoid the anxiety or trying to ignore it? How do we come at this in an emotionally healthy way? And by the way, I'll note before you answer that, we've mentioned a number of articles and other resources along the way in this conversation, and we will have links to those in the show notes if you want to read anything further. But go ahead, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I think that, you know, I gave a talk some years ago, was it two years? It was a year after the march by White supremacists in Charlottesville. So what I said to them was that for some of you, this is your first time engaging with anything about White supremacy and racism and the experiences of Black people and White people in the United States. It's your first time. This is all new to you, all the feels are there. For some of you, you were here when Rodney King was beaten, or you were here when Trayvon Martin was killed, or your first step into this may have happened today, yesterday, or 10, 15 years ago. But regardless of that, we need to be formed into people that are able to respond from our deepest values, not our deepest wounds.So if you're sitting there, and you're like, “Man, all these images are coming into my feed on social media.” I think, again, we need to treat social media like a garden, not a dumpster fire, because the algorithm is feeding off your outrage and desires your constant engagement. But literally, your heart and mind cannot handle that amount of dissonance and pain and struggle. So we actually have to build in patterns of what it looks like to engage, pray, take a break and engage again. And so if you were sitting there and you're thinking to yourself, “I don't want to be someone who just jumps in and jumps out on my own whims and giggles. I decide to get in when I feel guilty and then I get out when I feel overwhelmed.” That's a doom scrolling cycle that's radically unhelpful.And we can take this offline and put it in real life, when we disengage from the suffering of people around us and say it's for self-care, or say it's to take care of ourselves, what we're actually doing is bypassing the suffering of people around us, because we don't have the rhythms necessary to rigorously engage with the world as it is. And so, if we are not going to be people who run to comfort, we have to be people who have done the spiritual, emotional, physical, mental work necessary to have the fortitude to stand in solidarity with ourselves, with the poor and the marginalized, with the family around us, and even our enemies, to be able to see from their perspective so that we are able to love well.And so I think a couple of ways to do that on social media, is to turn off notifications, and to have people you follow and that you don't follow so that you're able to stay engaged without being overwhelmed. Because if you don't curate your social media, the algorithm will do it for you. So that's just the online stuff. In real life, similarly, who are you going to listen to and talk to, and who are you not going to listen to and talk to, so that you are able to be built up into the person that you want to be for the sake of those who are marginalized and suffering, not just for your own sake to feel comfortable and okay? So I need you to lean into the complexity because I'm not saying avoid all the people who are difficult in your life. That's not what I'm saying.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: I'm not saying, “Get away from the folks who challenge you.” That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, seek out the people that challenge you in ways that make you better, so that you can love one another well. I have to listen to hard conversations and engage with people who call me out. Because I'm not trying to live a life that where I and my comfort and my self-preservation is the most important priority, because the Gospel says I need to take up a cross. It doesn't tell me to go buy a croissant.[laughter]Jonathan Walton: I love bread, and that's my comfort food.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And so that is why I said the cross with a croissant. It wasn't just for the alliteration. [laughs] But God is calling us to make sacrifices, and I think that when we have communities of people who are willing to do that sacrificial work with us, then when the next attack happens, when the next mass shooting happens, we actually have the inner fortitude and the external community to engage with these things for the long term, which is what God is calling us to.Sy Hoekstra: That is all some very good advice. I don't know that I have things to add on to that, but I have other stuff [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Sure.Sy Hoekstra: This has just been important for me when it comes to this particular issue. Actually, it's important for me in a lot of issues, but developing a real understanding and sense of sympathy for the people who disagree with you, to me is really important. So in this particular case, what that means is trying to… it's not even that hard when it comes to Israel honestly, right? Because why is Israel such an appealing idea? It's because Jewish people have faced so many thousands of years of oppression everywhere they've gone. And Israel today has created for the Jews who live there, peace and flourishing that they haven't seen probably since King David, honestly.And it is just the dream of having a place where your oppressed people can be free and flourish. It's not hard to sympathize with that at all. It's one of the most natural human instincts. The problem is, like Jonathan said before, the way this world is ordered, the easiest way to accomplish that is to trample other people, and is to find somebody like the US whose interests are aligned with you, you know what I mean? Like to go that route. But understanding kind of where people are coming from and how real the fear is, even for people who have been a little bit secure for a few decades. You know, what I mean? How real that fear still remains in people.So my great grandmother who was alive until I was 24, was half Jewish, and her dad came over as a young kid from Romania. They went through Russia first, but they came over from Eastern Europe fleeing pogroms and anglicized their names, married Christians, went to church, and they erased Judaism from their lives effectively. And my grandma has told me that my great grandmother told her when she was young, to never tell anyone, for any reason that they were Jewish. But the reason they did that was fear. It's like the fear is so incredibly real, even for people who are living kind of middle class lives in the United States.And, I don't know, being able to understand that makes the problem to me feel a little bit more comprehensible and it makes it feel like, because it's comprehensible, like something that could theoretically be if not solved, at least you could change people's minds. There are ways around that fear, and like expanding people's sense of solidarity and love for other people who are going through the same thing. That's it, you have to be able to see that what Palestinians are going through at the hands of Israel is the same struggle, is the same thing that Jews have gone through forever. So then when I hear like bad faith arguments, or bad faith readings of history, I have an idea of what's behind it, maybe not for the individual speaker that I'm talking to, but for a lot of people, and that helps.Another thing that helps is get out there and do something [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It's true.Sy Hoekstra: It really helps to call your representatives to petition, if you can go to a march or protest or something, I did that this weekend. Being with a ton of people who feel the same way as you, or like participating in some kind of movement like that just makes you feel a little bit less isolated and lost and like you're losing your mind because people around you are saying such wild stuff. Any other thoughts Jonathan, before we wrap up?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean, for people who are listening to Sy and it's like, “Okay, how can I capture that?” I think what Sy is saying is something we've talked about in the past where it's like, we have to move from pity and sympathy towards incarnation. So the ability to feel sorry and sad for other people, that's just pity and sympathy. To look at someone's experience and say, “You know what, that is sorrowful,” right? And sympathy to feel that sorrow for yourself and then empathy to actually be able to imagine like, “Oh man, okay, I can identify with that.” And you watch Sy just do that when he's like, “Okay, I'm not just far away from this, but how can I get a little bit closer? Oh, my great grandma.”He's moving, he's identifying those feelings. And then he moves to this thing called compassion, where he actually says, “You know what, I'm going to think about, how can I suffer with them, like alongside them, even from the position that I have in Harlem? You know what, I'm going to go and protest. I'm going to put my shoes on and get my family together, and I'm going to walk, and I'm going to actually go be out there.” And if I can get in proximity in some ways to imagine what that compassion will look like and eventually, I'm going to incarnate with the people who are around me that are suffering as well, because I'm sure in that crowd, there are people who are more closely connected than Sy is.And so the fruit of that is the communal connection that he was just talking about. There's this collective grief that can be released. And when you experience the grief and connection, you're less likely to be violent, because the grief and the pain and the struggle and the push for better has somewhere to go and you have people to do it with.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: Because we have to seek out community. We have to have these rhythms, like Sy just walked through. We have to create those things to move from dismissal and dehumanization, and whatever all of might be happening inside of us towards pity and sympathy, towards empathy, towards compassion. And then if we can, in Jesus name incarnation, putting ourselves as close as we possibly can, to those who are suffering the most.Sy Hoekstra: And then when you go at that, like, the emotional health part is part of the incarnation as well, meaning like, because you can go into the grief, and you can get lost in it.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And you can find an outlet for that grief in calling for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So I was listening, there's a… I will definitely put this in the show notes. There was a talk, what do you call it? an event [starting at 26:40 in the linked video], that featured a conversation between Michelle Alexander who wrote The New Jim Crow, and Ta-Nehisi Coates, and the professor I mentioned before, Rashid Khalidi. And Coates, I guess, for those who don't know, is a famous Black American writer who writes about racial relations in the US mostly, went to Israel a few years ago, and went to the Holocaust Museum that they have in Jerusalem.And he went in and felt everything that he felt and then he walked outside and was immediately met with a line of like 10 IDF guards with enormous guns, right? And this is really interesting actually. He talks about how people talk about the situation in Israel like it's so complex, like you need a Middle East Studies degree to really understand what's going on. He's like, “I went there and I understood it in one day.” He's like, “I saw Palestinians not being able to go down certain roads, and they had other roads that they could go down that were not as well kept and whatever.” And he's like, “I know what that is. My parents grew up in Jim Crow, this is not confusing to me.”But he was like, he kind of said, “Imagine if Black people had gone through the hundreds of years of slavery and Jim Crow and segregation and everything and come out on the other side, and the lesson that they pulled from it was, we just need to get power, it doesn't matter what we do with it as long as we're safe.”Jonathan Walton: [long inhale] Mmmm, right.Sy Hoekstra: And he said that's Israel. Like that's what has happened. And it's just tragic in so many ways. So I think all the things that Jonathan was saying are so important, because this conversation just gets people going in so many different directions because of the trauma that is on both sides. Like the really heavy trauma that is on both sides of the wall in Israel.Jonathan Walton: I agree. I think there's, when I say and when we say, pursuing community, we are saying that we are trying to pursue a community that is seeking peace.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: That is [laughs] not… Because unfortunately, there is a solid… we may cut this out, but there is a solidarity that exists in exacting violence. And I think the resistance to that is necessary and difficult. And if we're not careful… No, it's exactly what you said.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: If we are not careful we will mistake our safety for the really, really, really good fruit as opposed to the collective fruitfulness of everyone being the thing that we long for and seeing it. That's the same thing, that's the exchange that Black slaves made when they became overseers. I will be safe. Those people won't be, but I will be safe. And like Tim Keller would say when he wrote Generous Justice, is that the definition of wickedness is to disadvantage the community for the advantage of yourself. And the definition of justice is to disadvantage yourself for the advantage of the community. And I think my hope would be that continue to push and disadvantage ourselves so that everybody can be free.Sy Hoekstra: Amen.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: That is a hard thing to ask, but nevertheless, I say amen [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Amen [laughs]. It's true.Sy Hoekstra: Before we finish up, well, a couple of things. One, I'm just going to remind you, like Jonathan did at the top. If you appreciate what we're doing here, which you do because you're listening to this, which means you're a subscriber, and we thank you so much for that support, please go and give us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. If you're on Apple, leave us a little written review if you can. It helps, it's a very quick thing that you can do that really does genuinely help us. The reviews that we have on our podcast by the way, are so heartwarming and lovely [laughs], and they make me feel so great inside. So if you want to support us and also genuinely just make me feel real nice in my little heart, that'd be great[laughter]Sy Hoekstra: Oh, you know what Jonathan, I'm going to start doing what I realized I haven't been doing because… So we have not been crediting Joyce who does our transcripts [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Oh man.Sy Hoekstra: I'm going to add Joyce to the list of transcripts. The reason we haven't been crediting her is because when we started the show, we were just doing the transcripts ourselves, and we just got into a rhythm of not crediting ourselves.[laughter]Sy Hoekstra: Joyce Ambale. Ambale? Hmm, Joyce is going to have to tell me how to pronounce her last name because I've only ever seen it in writing. Joyce Ambale does our transcripts. Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra, our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess, and we will see you all in December. Thank you so much for listening.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: We're going, yeah?Jonathan Walton: [singing] We are recording now. We are recording now. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: OkayJonathan Walton: Okay [clears throat].Sy Hoekstra: [inhales for a long time, brrrrs loudly sounding like he's shaking his head, coughs, clears his throat, kind of growls, and speaks in a loud, hoarse voice]. Ready to go.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Everyone, I'm normal [laughter]. I make normal noises and there's no need for concern. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com

Israeli bombs continue to rain down on the Palestinian residents of Gaza. As of this recording, over 9,000 Palestinian civilians have been killed, a figure that includes over 3,700 children. Multiple experts on international law and the history of genocide have said that Israel's actions do indeed amount to genocide. In this episode of the podcast, we're going to hear a program staged by the Palestine Festival of Literature on November 1, titled: But We Must Speak: On Palestine and the Mandates of Conscience. The event featured: Michelle Alexander, the acclaimed civil rights lawyer and author of The New Jim Crow; Professor Rashid Khalidi in conversation with National Book Award winner Ta-Nehisi Coates; Pulitzer Prize-winning Mojave American poet Natalie Diaz; Scholar and international legal expert, Noura Erakat; and poet, activist, and Mondoweiss's Culture Editor, Mohammed El-Kurd. - - - - - Support our work Help us continue our critical, independent coverage of events in Palestine, Israel, and related U.S. politics. Donate today at https://mondoweiss.net/donate Articles and Links mentioned in the show Learn more about the Palestine Festival of Literature. View a video of this event. Subscribe to our free email newsletters. Share this podcast Share The Mondoweiss Podcast with your followers on Twitter. Click here to post a tweet! If you enjoyed this episode, head over to Podchaser, leave us a review, and follow the show! Follow The Mondoweiss Podcast wherever you listen Amazon Apple Podcasts Audible Deezer Gaana Google Podcasts Overcast Player.fm RadioPublic Spotify TuneIn YouTube Our RSS feed We want your feedback! Email us Leave us an audio message at SparkPipe More from Mondoweiss Subscribe to our free email newsletters: Daily Headlines Weekly Briefing The Shift tracks U.S. politics Palestine Letter West Bank Dispatch Follow us on social media Mastodon Instagram Facebook YouTube Bluesky Twitter WhatsApp Telegram LinkedIn

During this episode, Elle reflects on some of her experiences with intersecting aspects of marginalization, as well as with enjoying privilege. She highlights the AWIS map of intersecting oppressions and privileges (click here), as well as similar diagrams from Sylvia Duckworth (click here). She talks about how she grew from dismissing systemic racism as an adolescent to becoming antiracist as an adult. In addition, she also invites a call to action for those of us who enjoy aspects of privilege in our lives today. Some of the books and ideas mentioned include: The New Jim Crown by Michelle Alexander - https://newjimcrow.com/ Ibram X Kendi's books, "How to be Anti-Racist" and "Stamped" - https://www.ibramxkendi.com/books "Trans Like Me" by CN Lester For this week's show, the question has to do with your commitment to work toward the cause of inclusion and justice. How are you giving yourself to this work today? How would you like to make the world a safer and more beautiful place for all people? What is one way you can commit to the work of justice? Reach out to Elle with your comments and feedback at twatpodcasting@gmail.com

In this episode, Simma The Inclusionist, is joined by Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team. With 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings insight into a system that he believes is broken and in need of reform. They discuss the importance of talking about race, especially in a society where some are trying to criminalize almost everything. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the role of race in America's history.   Time Stamps [00:02:13] Sweeping race conversations under the rug [00:06:03] Internal transformation in prison [00:09:22] Racial disparities in sentencing [00:14:17] Disparities in drug sentencing [00:19:22] Sentencing and racial identity [00:27:35] Systemic racism and incarceration [00:29:14] Challenging the criminal legal system [00:35:27] Systemic racism in criminal justice [00:43:12] Black codes in the criminal legal system [00:45:10] Racism in the criminal justice system [00:49:00] Country music and rap fusion [00:53:42] Show notes available for download   Simma interviews Sean Wilson, the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, who shares his deeply personal experience with the criminal justice system and the impact of systemic racism. Sean, who was born and raised in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, opens up about his troubled youth, including getting involved in criminal activities such as selling drugs and committing armed robbery. At the age of 17, Sean was arrested and sentenced to 50 years in prison for his crimes. He reflects on the harshness of his sentence, questioning how a judge could sentence a young boy to the same amount of time he had lived on this earth. Sean highlights the racial disparities within the criminal justice system, emphasizing that Black and Brown individuals are often given much harsher sentences compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses. He discusses the historical roots of systemic racism in the criminal justice system, tracing  back to the 13th Amendment and the implementation of Black codes, which restricted the freedom of African Americans and perpetuated a form of slavery through convict leasing. Sean emphasizes that these discriminatory practices continue to target Black and Brown people, leading to disproportionate rates of incarceration. Sean also addresses the issue of racial bias in sentencing, where black individuals are more likely to receive longer sentences compared to white individuals for the same offenses. He highlights the need for judges and prosecutors to view individuals before them as human beings deserving of grace, understanding, and the opportunity for redemption. As the organizing director of Dream.org's Justice Team, Sean is dedicated to closing prison doors and opening doors of opportunity. The organization works in three issue areas: climate justice, tech equity for Black and Brown people, and criminal justice reform. Sean's role involves training and building up leaders to advocate for transformational legislation that will reduce mass incarceration. In terms of recommended resources, Sean suggests reading "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander, which provides a comprehensive analysis of the racial disparities within the criminal justice system. He also recommends "Better Not Bitter" by Yusuf Salaam, one of the Central Park Five, who shares his personal journey of transformation and resilience after being wrongfully convicted. For those interested in gaining a deeper understanding of the criminal justice system, Sean suggests watching the HBO documentary "Growing Up Milwaukee," which follows the lives of young individuals assigned mentors, including Sean, who share their stories to deter them from a life of crime. He also recommends the documentary "13th," which explores the history and impact of mass incarceration in America. To connect with Sean and learn more about Dream.org's work, you can reach out to him via email at seanwilson@dream.org or follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn (Sean Wilson) and Facebook. You can also visit the Dream.org website and follow the organization on Instagram and Facebook for updates and information on their initiatives. This episode sheds light on Sean Wilson's personal experience with race and the criminal justice system and highlights the urgent need for systemic change to address racial disparities and promote justice and equality for all.   Key Takeaways: Systemic racism is deeply rooted in the criminal justice system, leading to racial disparities in sentencing and treatment. Black individuals are often subjected to harsher sentences and less leniency compared to their white counterparts for similar offenses. The criminal justice system perpetuates harm and fails to provide opportunities for redemption and rehabilitation. Advocacy and reform efforts are crucial to address the systemic racism within the criminal justice system. Open and honest conversations about race are necessary to bring about meaningful change and find common ground for solutions. To learn more about Sean Wilson and his work, visit the Dream.org website and follow him on social media platforms such as LinkedIn and Facebook. Additional resources mentioned include the book "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander and the documentaries "Growing Up Milwaukee" and "13th."   Guest Bio Sean is the Organizing Director at Dream Corps. As someone with 17 years of lived experience and direct involvement with the criminal legal system, Sean brings an advantage and insight into a system he believes to be broken and in need of reform. Before joining the Dream Corps JUSTICE team, Sean was the ACLU of Wisconsin's Smart Justice Campaign Manager, where he managed the campaign to reform probation and parole. In addition, he also serves as a commissioner on the Governor's Juvenile Justice Commission (GJJC), a State Advisory Group (SAG) that advises the DOJ on its juvenile justice programs and funding decisions and serves as an independent forum to discuss juvenile justice policy issues.   Host Bio Simma Lieberman, The Inclusionist helps leaders create inclusive cultures. She is a consultant, speaker and facilitator and the host of the podcast, “Everyday Conversations on Race for Everyday People.” Contact Simma@SimmaLieberman.com Go to www.simmalieberman.com and www.raceconvo.com for more information Simma is a member of and inspired by the global organization IAC (Inclusion Allies Coalition)    Connect with me: Instagram Facebook YouTube Twitter LinkedIn Tiktok Website   Previous Episodes Everyday Conversation on Race with Rosalyn Taylor O'Neale (DEI OG for 47 years) Breaking the Chains: Fighting Caste Oppression with Thenmozhi Soundararajan Breaking Barriers: John Blake on Racial Reconciliation   Loved this episode? Leave us a review and rating

One in three people are diagnosed with anxiety or depression, and one in three report their jobs have a negative impact on their mental health. In addition, more than 47 billion dollars is lost in lack of engagement, absenteeism, and health care costs. What can employees and employers do to reduce anxiety they feel related to work?  Join director of Care to Change, April Bordeau, HR Coordinator, Danielle Huff, and Therapist, Michelle Alexander, as they discuss anxiety in the workplace. Resources:When Work Is Negatively Impacting Mental HealthEmployee Mental Health CostPoor Employee Mental HealthCope with Anxiety at Work Article  Preventing Ministry FailureOther Helpful Podcasts: Becoming a Better Version of MeWhen Life Doesn't Feel Fun AnymoreWhat Does Obsessive Working Have to Do with Mental HealthBoundaries at WorkBreaking Free From the Tyranny of the UrgentWant to Do When You Dread Going to WorkSchedule an appointment at Care to ChangeText us your thoughts or questions at our Care Line: 317-979-7133 For more information about Care to Change visit  www.caretochange.org Follow Care to Change on Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/CaretoChange.org/ Follow Care to Change on Instagram or Twitter @care_to_change

Learn the complicated origin of Juneteenth, get informed about the recent controversy surrounding the holiday, and gain clarity on what Juneteenth means for us today.Your listen next list: The Racial Wealth Gap Has Hardly Budged Since 1963 on Apple & SpotifyShould White People Do Diversity Work? on Apple & SpotifyMentioned:We Need to Talk About Racism in the Criminal Justice System on Apple & SpotifyWhat does Juneteenth Really Mean? by Sean CollinsThe New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander; 13thTo support Marie and get exclusive resources, head to patreon.com/mariebeech. To learn more about Marie's DEI services, head to mariebeecham.com.

Moving beyond difficult life experiences and trauma takes intentional self-care and authentic connection. Unfortunately, there is no ten step process because healing requires time and intentionality. Join director April Bordeau, therapists Jean Crane and Michelle Alexander as they talk about healing from and moving beyond life's challenges.Resources: Anatomy of the SoulSoul of Shame The Body Keeps the Score Moving Beyond TraumaThe Deepest WellAtlas of the HeartYoga for Your Mental Health Group Calm AppHealthy minds AppHeadspace AppOther Helpful Podcasts: Becoming a Better Version of MeBreaking Free From Addictive BehaviorsWhen You Think You He Needs Help and Don't Know What to doWhat to do When You Dread Going to WorkWhen Life Doesn't Feel Fun AnymoreWhy I Keep Going Back to Old HabitsHealing From ACESHow to Move Beyond What Has Been Done to YouSchedule an appointment at Care to ChangeText us your thoughts or questions at our Care Line: 317-979-7133 For more information about Care to Change visit  www.caretochange.org Follow Care to Change on Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/CaretoChange.org/ Follow Care to Change on Instagram or Twitter @care_to_change

According to Ruha Benjamin, we're living inside someone else's imagination. An imagination that  limits our ability to build a more just, liberated world. So, how do we take back our agency and begin to seed something different? Baratunde talks with Princeton professor and founding director of the Just Data Lab, Ruha Benjamin to find out.   SHOW ACTIONS Internally Reflect - Bear witness and create a ripple This one is inspired from Ruha's book Viral Justice: How We Grow the World We Want which says: “…bear witness to the weight of individual and communal protective acts and consider how all of us can be involved in sheltering one another from the rain and sun by cultivating relationships, skills, accountability, and healing.” Think about when you witnessed someone near you perform an act of justice or kindness or protection for another. Was it a big or small act? Did it require courage? How did witnessing that make you feel about the world? Is it something you could repeat and further the impact? Become More Informed - Learn about racial justice  Ruha recommends Rest is Resistance: A Manifesto by Tricia Hersey and The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness by Michelle Alexander both of which you can find on our Bookshop page.   Publicly Participate - Invest in your community using your time & skills Check out ways to invest and get to know your community using your existing skills and experience.  If you're 60+ check out Thirdact.org and Cogenerate.org. If you're 25-59 check out Volunteermatch.org and Catchafire.org. If you're 16-24 check out Civicsunplugged.org and Youthclimatelobby.org.   SHOW NOTES Walk through Breonna's Garden and check out Lady Phoenix's IG for more.  Find How To Citizen on Instagram or visit howtocitizen.com to join our mailing list and find ways to citizen besides listening to this podcast!  Please show your support for the show by reviewing and rating. It makes a huge difference with the algorithmic overlords and helps others like you find the show! How To Citizen is hosted by Baratunde Thurston. He's also host and executive producer of the PBS series, America Outdoors as well as a founding partner and writer at Puck. You can find him all over the internet.    CREDITS How To Citizen with Baratunde is a production of iHeartRadio Podcasts and Rowhome Productions. Our Executive Producers are Baratunde Thurston and Elizabeth Stewart. Allie Graham is our Lead Producer and Danya AbdelHameid is our Associate Producer. Alex Lewis is our Managing Producer. John Myers is our Executive Editor and Mix Engineer. Original Music by Andrew Eapen and Blue Dot Sessions. Our Audience Engagement Fellows are Jasmine Lewis and Gabby Rodriguez. Special thanks to Joelle Smith from iHeartRadio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Libs treat angry blacks like victims! Scottish women rise! "Nonbinary" 2nd grade teacher! United Airlines "trans" suicide! The Hake Report, Thursday, March 23, 2023 AD – Opening clip: black guy interferes with police work and beats up white cop in fast food place. Mixed gal tweeted everybody knows they bring destruction.  //  Old viral clip: Military-looking "white" young man promotes cherry-picked data from ACLU propagandist Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness."  //  MMA/BJJ hero Jake Shields tweeted it's weird and unfortunate that former Black Lives Matter sympathizers (presumably non-black) in San Francisco are turning "racist" because blacks are given more of a pass on crime.  //  CALLS: Frederick in L.A. I think tries to suggest the "snowflake white boys" taking opioids are treated better than the black crack dealers of the 80s-90s.  //  HOUR 2: Sion from Georgia fears her heart beats faster post-vaxx, and might not have kids. Trump changed his mind on people protesting for him, according to his friend Dick Morris.  //  Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon is on an ego trip as a woman who reached the highest office in the land. She and other politicians "officially apologize" for decades-past policy forcing unmarried mothers to give up their babies for adoption.  //  "Non-binary" 2nd grade teacher (who goes by Mx.) recounts pushing gender confusion on children (7 and 8-year-olds).  //  United Airlines promoted a "trans" male stewardess who gave up on life 3 years later, posting a morbid apology on IG.  //  MUSIC: "Chicken Lips" and "No One Else I Know" - Mary Rice Hopkins (1991, Good Buddies)  //  TIME STAMPS* 0:00:00 INTRO: Cop attacked! Mixed gal: They only destroy!* 0:05:04 Hey, guys! American Shooters LV tee* 0:07:28 The New Jim Crow propaganda by military man* 0:21:05 Jake Shields distraught: SF BLM libs turn racist!* 0:32:14 HERBERT, CA: Prank gone awry?* 0:32:39 JEFF, LA: Uganda "anti-gay" laws* 0:39:35 FREDERICK, CA: Opioid vs Crack epidemics, violence* 0:54:14 "Chicken Lips" - Mary Rice Hopkins (1991, Good Buddies)* 0:59:01 Supers: BLM resentment, tinnitus pronunciation, Esther listened to men* 1:06:53 TSION, GA: Vaxx effects? Caffeine? Dick Morris on Trump protesting* 1:22:05 Scottish gal Nicola Sturgeon: "When women lift, ghettoes rise(??)"* 1:27:40 Scotland apologizes for forced adoption (out-of-wedlock mothers)* 1:36:59 Nonbinary 2nd grade teacher pushes LGBT ideology on kids* 1:43:02 United Air's trans male stewardess commits suicide RIP* 1:51:40 WILLIAM, CA: Denver black kid school shooting, and other stories* 1:58:06 "No One Else I Know" - Mary Rice Hopkins (1991, Good Buddies)BLOG https://www.thehakereport.com/blog/2023/3/23/the-hake-report-thu-3-23-23 PODCAST: SUBSTACKThe Hake Report LIVE M-F 9-11 AM PT (12-2 ET) Call-in 1-888-775-3773 thehakereport.com VIDEO  YouTube  |  Rumble*  |  BitChute  |  Facebook  |  Twitter  |  Odysee*  |  DLive  PODCAST  Apple  |  Spotify  |  Castbox  |  Podcast Addict  |  Pocket Casts  |  Substack  (RSS)  *SUPER CHATS on asterisked platforms, or  Ko-fi  |  BuyMeACoffee  |  Streamlabs  SUPPORT / EXCLUSIVES  Substack  |  SubscribeStar  |  Locals  ||  SHOP  Teespring  SEE ALSO  Hake News on The JLP Show  |  Appearances elsewhere (other shows, etc.) Get full access to HAKE at thehakereport.substack.com/subscribe

Continuing our series, All About Teens, listen in this week as therapists, Michelle Alexander and Jared Jones, discuss the positive and negative aspects of being a perfectionist or high achiever, and what parents can do to encourage excellence over perfection. Join us as we offer you practical solutions as you parent your child through these formative years, including modeling that personal value is not dependent upon outcomes and productivity. Resources: The Gifts of Imperfection – Brene BrownA Perfectionist's Guide to Not Being Perfect – Bonnie ZuckerMindset: The New Psychology of Success – Carol DweckOther Helpful Podcasts: How To Connect With Your Kid in the Age of TechnologyBoundaries with Kids and ParentsTeaching Your Kids What Healthy Dating MeansWhen Kids Seem to Be Ruining Your RelationshipWhen You Catch Your Kids with PornTeaching Your Kids to Live with the Attitude of Gratitude Schedule an appointment at Care to ChangeText us your thoughts or questions at our Care Line: 317-979-7133 For more information about Care to Change visit  www.caretochange.org Follow Care to Change on Facebook  https://www.facebook.com/CaretoChange.org/ Follow Care to Change on Instagram or Twitter @care_to_changeFollow our YouTube Channel

Listen to the Sat. Feb. 25, 2023 edition of the Pan-African Journal: Worldwide Radio Broadcast hosted by Abayomi Azikiwe, editor of the Pan-African News Wire. This episode features our regular PANW report with dispatches on the national elections in the Federal Republic of Nigeria, Africa's most populous state; there has been an explosion at a sports stadium in the West African state of Cameroon where 19 people were reportedly injured; Burkina Faso is hosting the Pan-African Film Festival (FESPACO) amid heightening insecurity inside the country; and the United States government is drastically cutting food supplemental benefits while inflation is taking its toll among millions of working and impoverished people. In the second and third hours we continue our focus on African American History Month. We will look back on the 50th anniversary of a lecture delivered by Stokely Carmichael (later known as Kwame Ture) at the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) in 1973. Finally, we hear a lecture by scholar Michelle Alexander on the continued enslavement of African Americans utilizing the prison system inside the United States.

American Crusade: How the Supreme Court Is Weaponizing Religious Freedom by Andrew L Seidel Is a fight against equality and for privilege a fight for religious supremacy? Andrew L. Seidel, a constitutional attorney and author of the critically acclaimed book The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism Is Un-American, dives into the debate on religious liberty, the modern attempt to weaponize religious freedom, and the Supreme Court's role in that “crusade.” Seidel examines some of the key Supreme Court cases of the last thirty years—including Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (a bakery that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple), Trump v. Hawaii (the anti-Muslim travel ban case), American Legion v. American Humanist Association (related to a group maintaining a 40-foot Christian cross on government-owned land), and Tandon v. Newsom (a Santa Clara Bible group exempted from Covid health restrictions), as well as the recent overturning of Roe v. Wade—and how a hallowed legal protection, freedom of religion, has been turned into a tool to advance privilege and impose religion on others. This is a meticulously researched and deeply insightful account of our political landscape with a foreword provided by noted constitutional scholar Erwin Chemerinsky, author of The Case Against the Supreme Court. The issue of church versus state is more relevant than ever in today's political climate and with the conservative majority status of the current Supreme Court. This book is a standout on the shelf for fans of Michelle Alexander, Bob Woodward, and Christopher Hitchens. Readers looking for critiques of the rise of Christian nationalism, like Jesus and John Wayne, and examinations like How Democracies Die will devour Seidel's analysis.

INTRODUCTION: Emily Dufton“An oracle ofknowledge on all things marijuana” - BostonHeraldI'm a drug historian and writer based near Washington,D.C. I received my BA from New York University and earned my Ph.D. in AmericanStudies from George Washington University. My first book, Grass Roots: The Rise and Fall and Rise of Marijuana inAmerica, traced over 50 years of cannabis activism and wasnamed one of “The8 Best Weed Books to Read Right Now” by RollingStone and one of “The Top 5Cannabis Books to Have In Your Personal Library” by 10buds.com.Since its publication,I've become a commentator on America's changing cannabisscene. I've appeared on CNN,the History Channel andNPR's BackStory with the American History Guys, and my writing has been featured on TIME, CNN,SmithsonianMagazine, and the WashingtonPost. I'm currentlyworking on my second book, Addiction,Inc.: Medication-Assisted Treatment and the War on Drugs (under contractwith the University of Chicago Press). It's the history of the development andcommercialization of the opioid addiction medication industry. In 2021 I won a LukasWork-in-Progress Award to help finance its writing. In 2022 I won a Robert B. SilversGrant. I'm deeply grateful for all the support.I'm also a podcasthost on the NewBooks Network, where I interview authors on new books about drugs,addiction and recovery. I live in the People's Republic of TakomaPark, Maryland, with my husband Dickson Mercerand our two children.  INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to):  ·      A Look At The History Of Marijuana ·      Emily's Halloween Candy Advice·      De'Vannon's Experience With Hallucinogenics·      Great Grassroots Advice For Marijuana/Drug Activists ·      President Joe Biden's Major Moves For Marijuana·      The Inappropriate Relationship Between - Church + Media + Government·      Political Influences And Implications On Drugs·      The Balance Between Parents Rights And Kids Rights·      How Grassroots Organizations Impact Federal Policy·      Why We Shouldn't Assume Decriminalization Is Here To Stay  CONNECT WITH EMILY: Website: https://www.emilydufton.com/Grass Roots: https://www.emilydufton.com/grass-rootsLinkedIn: https://bit.ly/3ganBPgFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/emily.duftonInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/author_emily_dufton/Twitter: https://twitter.com/emily_duftonMedium: https://medium.com/@ebdufton   CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Emily Dufton is an author, podcast host, and a drug historian who has blessed the world with a phenomenal book, which is entitled Grass Roots. The rise and fall and rise of marijuana in America. This book offers phenomenal advice for marijuana slash drug activists and encourages us to not arrest on our laurels, assuming that drug decriminalization is here to stay.Now, I fell in love with Ms. Emily when I discovered her while [00:01:00] listening to the, the. To The ReidOut podcast hosted by the great Joy-Ann Reid over on msnbc, and it was a surreal delight to sit down and talk with Emily about what's going on with drugs right now, as well as what was going on with drugs back then.Also, would like everyone to please check out our YouTube channel because for this very special episode, Emily and I have dawned our Halloween costumes. She's a hot dog, and I'm Fred Flintstone, and you have got to check them out. Have a super safe Halloween everyone.Hello and happy Halloween everyone, and welcome to this very special edition of The Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. I wish you all a very, very spooky weekend. I have with me the great. Multi talented, multifaceted, delicious, and nutritious. Emily din, How are you, girl? Emily: Oh my God, I'm feeling delicious and nutritious.Thank [00:02:00] you. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me. I'm De'Vannon: so fucking lely. Like you look delicious and nutritious. So you're dressed as a hot dog. I am. So I'm curious and you told me, Previously that you're a hot dog every year, and so I've been wondering, so some years, are you like a vegan hot dog another year?You're like a Polish sausage. You switch up the bond, like how exactly does it go? Emily: Oh, the hot dog is in the eye of the beholder. I, that's how it is. I think, you know, I live in Tacoma Park, Maryland. It's known as the Berkeley of the East. I think many people see me as a tofu dog, as a beyond beyond.Hot dog. Others as DC adjacent, you know, were like, I could be a half smoke. I could be, I'm just I just wear this because it's a costume I found on the side of the street in Capitol Hill in DC where I was living at the time, and I thought, [00:03:00] This is amazing. Someone is just giving away a hot dog costume.I'm going to give it a home and I'm going to be a hot dog every year from now until it literally falls apart. And so that's why I'm a hot dog every year. De'Vannon: looks brand new. I love it. Emily: Thank you. It gets washed from time to time. De'Vannon: from time. Good time. Look, I love me a good wier girl. So , Emily: I could be, I could be the wier of your dreams.Who knows? Let's see. We can put the, the top up for a minute. See you. De'Vannon: It's great. That is one. Okay. All right. There y'all. So . So Emily is an author and a drug historian. She holds a PhD in American Studies from George Washington University. She is the author of a fabulous book called Grassroots, the Rise and Fall and Rise of Marijuana in America.Has to do with how, how, how, how, [00:04:00] how earnest hippies, frightened parents suffering patients and other ordinary Americans went to war over the marijuana. It was a little mm-hmm. description I had of that. Before we go much further, I wanna take a moment to give a shout out to Ms. Joy and re over at the readout on msnbc, because that is how I discovered.Oh wow. . I saw you on her podcast and then I heard what you had to say about your grassroots book, and then I fell in love with you and when I built up the courage and got, got, got more bodies of works under my belt, I sent you a message, you know, hoping and praying that you would respond and you did.And so, Emily: Paul touch my heart. I'm so happy to be here. And honestly, like I The idea that, that, oh, you would be at all nervous to talk to me, makes me just like ache a little bit on the inside. I'm so happy to talk to you and this is such an honor for me to [00:05:00] be here. We are. You wrote a book, We Are equals, We know, We know what it is to go into the, the pain cave of writing and, and try to create something intelligible and lengthy about complicated subjects.You know, so writer to writer, you and I are, we are. Eye to eye. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. De'Vannon: The sausage and so, So I'm like a glittery version of Fred Flinstone because, As far as I'm concerned, we all know what Fred Freestone and Barney Rubble were really doing over in Bed Rock, Honey and Emily: Rock. I mean, come on.Yeah, it was right inDe'Vannon: Barney Rubs a total bottom. I know. It . So, So in your own words, I've given like my take on, is there anything you'd like to say about yourself, your own personal history or anything? Emily: Gosh. [00:06:00] Like, like about writing grassroots or about like what? Like about me as a human being. De'Vannon: Anything about you at all.Your favorite color, Favorite place you've traveled. We're gonna get into grassroots right after you. Tell us whatever you'd like to say. Just about yourself. Oh my at all since I've already given a little history, so you don't have to Oh, Emily: lovely. I'm a Piy, Sun Sagittarius, Rising Pisces Moon. I have two children a boy who's six and a little girl who's almost three.I'm working on my second book right now, which is about the history of medication assisted treatment for opioid use disorder, and I won a couple grants to fund the work, and it's been super awesome. And hopefully I'm gonna go to Switzerland either at the end of this year or the beginning of next year to compare addiction treatment programs over there with America's treatments.So those are, I think by far the most pertinent facts about me that everyone should, [00:07:00] should know. .De'Vannon: I think those are pretty damn good and relevant facts. the, the, the resurgence of healing with the drugs. Look, I just got back from Portland, Oregon dealing shrooms. And sell. So that is a cell aside, but, and what the fuck else I did?Mdm a I had never been shrooms before in my life and since I'm a veteran who suffers from ptsd, O C D and you know, all of these things and I saw on Netflix and the How to Change Your Mind documentary on PBS history of Mil illness. Documentary, how they've been using these hallucinogenics to help veterans.And I thought, Okay, I'm not gonna wait for this to be approved. I'm gonna fly my happy ass up here and do these shrooms. Man, it took seven grams for me to like fill anything. And apparently that's like a lot. And wow. I don't know, apparently besides the Emily: social work. Oh, that context. Yeah. So you did like an official, like, like clinical trial?It De'Vannon: wasn't a trial I paid for this. I [00:08:00] found a social worker who was willing to to do it in a psychiatric setting. Uhhuh, he feel like his woods are like an hour north of Portland into his cabin in the woods. So that, cuz he was like insistent that the environment be like, Right. And so it was like a guided assistant thing.It was, it was clinical, but I paid for it. I wasn't, I didn't wait for a trial Emily: to come. Totally, totally understood. That's awesome. How was it? Was it a good experience?De'Vannon: It follows me, so in a good way. So like if I smoke weed, it does not have an effect on me. I've tried different strands, different states, different times.I used to sell the hell out of it back in my drug dealing days, but I never fool with it too much. I used to sell shrooms. I never did 'em either. But I have discovered that if I do like a CBD gummy, I will be sitting around looking like EE from South Park. I feel that. But, so the, the C B D [00:09:00] does the same thing that the MDM A and the shrooms did.It quiet hit my mind. So I was expecting to have one of those like, really jerky experiences like I saw in the documentary, but that did not happen for me at all because my mind is always like this with the OCD and the PTSD and everything. Mm-hmm. . So for me, what those, what those hallucinogenics did was it just neutralized.And so I was just like, still just silent, quiet. And so I have found things that I used to, that I used to have anxiety over. I don't anymore. And so basically that peace, it, it attached itself to me in those, in that state of mind. Emily: I love that. So, so quieted your minds downed. How long did the quietness.De'Vannon: It's ongoing. So I was, while the drugs had their effect on me, okay, on this room, you know, the trees started to like move and the prints, you know, the pattern in the carpet started [00:10:00] dancing and doing his own thing and whatnot. So that was kind of freaky. But once that all settled down, , you know, you know, So it's not like it was, I, I have found, this has been like maybe three weeks ago that I was in Portland.It hasn't changed. You know, I still feel peace. It's like, and I experienced the same thing when I started experiment, the CBD gummies, which has only been like maybe two or three months ago. Mm-hmm. That I discovered that these gummies will have an impact on me. That's interesting. It's like, it's, it's a permanent thing with me.Emily: Wow. And have you had any kind of I don't know, like sessions or counseling or anything to kind of talk about like, But you know, sort of digesting the effects of it or like, maybe I don't even, I don't even know what the word is, but have, have you communicated at all with the guy who led the session since he, De'Vannon: He was, he is open to that and he wanted to schedule a follow up, but [00:11:00] I, and I can reach out to him if I want to, Emily, but I, I was ready, you know, like writing my blog and my books in the show and I see a, a social worker every week anyway.I see a licensed family marriage, the. A couple of times a month for me and my boyfriend, and then I see a hypno therapist once a month. And so I'm always professing and manifesting the change that I want. I went into it already. I didn't really embody to do too much handholding, and I'm all like, I'm ready to let this shit go.Like we talk about it, but it's already done . Emily: That's great. And this is the thing that allowed you to do that. Like you're just like, I just need that final push to get it out. Right. I love that there's a guy. Oh yeah. Sorry. Keep going. De'Vannon: You go, You're the guest girl. Oh, Emily: no. I'm just saying there's someone so I live right outside of DC in Tacoma Park, Maryland, and which I think I've said already but.There's this doctor who just moved here and [00:12:00] started a practice where he's doing exactly that. He's using Ketamine though. And so he's doing these like lead ketamine therapy sessions. And then afterwards he offers sessions to, I'm trying to remember like the verb he used. It wasn't like aggregate, but it was like to sort of like digest the experience.So you have this experience with ketamine that will hopefully release in the patient, the same kind of things that released in your experience. And then he would kind of provide the counseling or the, the therapy sessions to help sort of bring, make, make manifest the effects. And I thought, Oh my God, like, here it is.It's, it's, it's here. You know, like sort of this pro, this ability to access these drugs in a therapeutic. You know, private, like obviously like , you know, industrial way, but it's here. And God, that is like 10 years ago. I think experiences like yours are like the one that this doctor is offering would've been like [00:13:00] unimaginable.And yet now they're here and they're moving into all these communities. You know, it's not just Portland, Oregon, it's like here in, right outside of DC it's everywhere. And that to me is a totally fascinating aspect of like drug policy in the United States. It's wild. Totally. De'Vannon: I'm so happy to have it here too.But as you warn in your book grassroots that we're about to get into you know, these things tend to come and. At times. Yeah. Because this wasn't the first time that we were on the border of finding therapeutic uses for drugs before the drug war on drugs. Shut it down. Right. And so we're happy to have it back.And towards the end of the interview, I was most intrigued with the, the six lessons that you have for grassroots advocate for people at the end. And so I really gotta let you give that advice because I really feel like people need to hear that because people. Are feeling really grass rooty these days.It'll be . Emily: That's true. ,De'Vannon: it would be great for them to to to hear, hear [00:14:00] your advice so that they can be helped. Emily: I had to go get my copy. I haven't looked at that in a while. That's right. I forgot. I had like six little lessons in the back. Yeah. The one I remember, the Yes. Make your argument as sympathetic as possible was lesson one.Mm-hmm. . Because the more you center like a really sympathetic identity in the middle of your campaign, the more likely people are to. Feel bad for you and generate empathic warmth and support, right? Which is why you always see like puppies, like with their ribs exposed cuz they're starving in the rain, chained to a box and you're like, Please take my money to save the puppy.Lesson two. It's all about the money, which is exactly what we were talking about. Money buys influence. Lesson three, Be prepared to watch your progress disappear. Lesson four, don't rely too heavily on the White House. Lesson five, Respect your opposition and lesson six, keep a sense of perspective.Wow. I forgot I wrote these. That's so interesting. Yeah, [00:15:00] like, you know what's, Sorry, De'Vannon: keep going. No saying. So. We'll talk about those towards the end, cuz I thought those would be cute. Okay. So you can just kind of like, you know, peruse over that while we're going through. And and then of course people go by the books.So if you're a grassroots person and you wanna figure out. How to escape some pitfalls and things like that. I think this is a really good book and if you wanna have insight cause we're all also passionate about this, you know, this resurgence and everything. But I think that your book, you know, is like so evergreen, you know, in the, in the sense that, you know, it's an ongoing battle in this country because as you say, it's the rise, the fall, the rise, you know, it goes back and forth.There's no reason for us to be so arrogant as to assume that it can't fall again, because as you lay out in the book, every time we have. Arise for decriminalization. There's an opposing force that wants to fight that. Right. And so, and it was no different then. It's the same way now. So you wanted to give a warning though, for Halloween candy.I [00:16:00] wanted to be sure that we have time for that, because that was something you specifically requested. And so tell us your, this is, this is Emily's warning about this Halloween came to y'all. Oh Emily: my God. It's less of warning and just more of like a. I, I just every year, Well, this year in particular, I feel like there have been a lot of news stories about the rainbow colored fentanyl that apparently is going to show up in children's Halloween staes nationwide.And I love it because like, it just goes to show how. Drugs. The concept of drugs, right? When we talk about drugs, we're never just talking about drugs, right? We're always talking about larger issues and larger questions and larger ideas. And I feel like this, like the new fear of 2022, Halloween, 2022 of Fentanyl being dispersed widely in like Halloween candy is just, it's a really convenient vehicle for like political mud slinging, right?And. [00:17:00] You know, so the right can mud sling at the left by saying, Oh, it's the liberal's open border policies that is allowing Mexican cartels to funnel this rainbow colored fentanyl across the borders. And now it's gonna, now my kid's gonna eat it thinking it's a sweet tart and die. So that's how, like the right is mudslinging the left and then the left mud slings the right in return by saying, right.You're so stupid. No drug dealer is going to give away drugs for free. That is not how drug dealing works. . So there's just this and like, you know, so whenever we're talking about drugs, we're always talking about so much more than just drugs. Like there, like the concept of drugs is weighted with all of these other topics that we like, press upon it.And it becomes something that's like, kind of like a football, right? It's just always being thrown back and forth, you know? People are always going to use the concept of drugs or the concept of punishment or the concept of treatment as a political vehicle to achieve [00:18:00] other ends, right? Whether those are financial or moral or law enforcement, whatever.But I just feel like the Halloween candy saga that we go through every year is like kind of a good sort of visual entry point on to this topic that like, Drugs are always much more than just drugs, right? There are ways for us to discuss as Americans and as human beings, concepts that are obviously like much more complicated and oftentimes more complex than just like fentanyl or pot or whatever else itself.So I guess that's like my opening concept for conversation . De'Vannon: Yes, as a former drug dealer, I can attest to what Mr. Mrs. Dustin is saying is true. We don't to run around giving away drugs for free honey, especially not to little children who don't have money to come back and buy any once they get addicted.That's . Emily: It's, it is a profoundly bad marketing plan. No one [00:19:00] benefits from it. No one benefits . De'Vannon: But you know, just like, you know, as you state in your book You know, the fear mongering, you know, the fear mongering is like a big deal coming from the left. And so, I mean, coming from the right and so Emily: and sometimes the De'Vannon: left , it can, it can, mm-hmm.it pains me to say, but it's just so true. You know, Emily: sometimes we have to be honest about our own, you know, . De'Vannon: You know what? I don't, I don't, I don't want, I don't want a political party. I just wanna be like me. I just wanna be like me. I know. Whatever makes free to be you and me. What do you think about what Biden did though with the rolling back the the, the, the legal, the, the cases against people with the marijuana charges?Emily: I mean, it was really interesting, right? It was kind of came out in nowhere, right? He hadn't talked [00:20:00] much about. Marijuana policy at all on the campaign trail or during these first two years? I remember Kamala Harris during the Vice presidential debate was the very first presidential or vice presidential candidate to ever say during a debate, like, Yes, I support decriminalization.And she said that. So Kamala mentioned it, but like Biden never did. So he comes out and he makes this announcement and. Like it's immediate effect is going to be relatively small because the only marijuana convictions he's allowed to overturn are ones that he can control and he can only control federal convictions for possession.And that's not the, like that many it's about 6,500 nationally and it's, I don't know the number. No one would gave it. No one would give it. But it's also convictions for possession in DC because DC is federal. So that actually, that number might be more considerable than 6,500, but like I have not seen [00:21:00] a news outlet give it yet.But anyway, like that's pretty small compared to the millions of people who have been arrested. It's kind of a drop in the bucket. But what he also said was he was going to talk to eight, the Department of Health and HHS Health and Human. Services. He's going to talk to the FDA and he is going to talk to the DEA for the three federal agencies in charge of drug policy and talk about, and he wanted to talk about descheduling cannabis.So right now, pot is a schedule one drug and it's been a Schedule one drug since 1970. And, Being schedule one, that means that the federal government considers it to have no medical utility and a high risk for abuse, which is of course very silly. Since 1996, it became medical marijuana. So of course it has some medical utilities.Schedule one placement has been kind of nuts for at least since 1996. [00:22:00] He wants to talk about descheduling it, taking it outta the schedules completely. And if you deschedule a. That means it can become a legitimate legal marketplace item like cigarettes or alcohol. It could become a commercial product, and that is a really big decision.It's already kind of becoming a commercial product, but those industries are like very cottage still. Like there is a huge medical marijuana industry and there is a growing recreational cannabis industry, but there's still like, In the span of things, right, Like along the spectrum of, of products, it's still fairly small.So to deschedule it completely and turn it into a commercial product that would transform the cannabis industry in the United States and ultimately worldwide. So it's a huge decision. It's a huge, it's this, this the beginning of a huge conversation. So like right [00:23:00] after he made that announcement it was right before last weekend.People were like, I didn't really know what to make of it, honestly. But the more I've read, like things on Twitter from people I respect and some articles, the more I realize he's launching like a pretty huge conversation. And now would be the time for activists who are interested in creating, as, you know, equitable and kind.Fundamentally good natured and industry as possible, like now would be the time for them to really get involved because, you know, conversations about, about descheduling are happening and those are, those are important. And you know, the time to influence the marketplaces now cuz it's starting to take shape, which is crazy.I mean, it's like the same thing we were talking about before where like now you can go someplace and have like ketamine treatment, like these things are available. So it's time to figure out what, like we actually want the industry to look. De'Vannon: [00:24:00] Hell yeah. Something to tap into that energy and push it forward.I feel you on that. So, so, so in your book, you, you take us from like prohibition back in the first part of the last century, you know, all the way up to the day and I thought it was very artfully done. So I wanted to read a little excerpt about about the way. Marijuana was viewed back then from way back in 1917 from, from your book, if I may.And so those said, the 1917 report from the Treasury Department noted that in Texas only Mexicans and sometimes Negroes and lower class whites smoked the marijuana for pleasure and warned that that drug crazed minorities could harm or assault upper class white women. I felt like this, you know, that sort of thinking still informs policy today and I felt like when movies like The Terrible [00:25:00]Truth and Reefer Madness, which you mentioned, the book came out, I felt like that was like media's way of locking arms with the government and echoing what they're saying.And you don't really get into too religion deeply. But I feel like the church also. Touched and agreed. Yes. Emily: So, so the church was responsible for paying for the production of the movie Reef for Madness. I don't which church it, it was, I don't remember, but it was funded by Evangelical Christians. There you go.There's your connection. Mm-hmm. . De'Vannon: And see, I don't know, like, I, I hate the fact that the church. I would've rather the church stand up and say, You know what? It's not for the government to enforce morality because God is not forced. He's always gave the children of Israel a choice. He never came down here and mandated things in the way that we're trying to mandate them.So why don't we back off and leave this whole morality [00:26:00] thing to the church instead? The church was like, Well, we like to control people. The government likes to control people, so why don't we see if we can control them all together? Hmm. So I Emily: collaborate. Oh my God, it's so true. And it's been so powerful, like for so long, for so long.But it's true, like can you legislate morality? I mean, like, that's just this eternal question and you know, you really, you really can't, you can't punish someone until they're good. It just doesn't work that way. You. De'Vannon: No, nobody responds to that. You know, our children don't. And I love that your kids are like, pretty much the same age as my two kids, which happen to be like Maine Coon mixed cats.You know, My oldest boys about is about to be six in March, and then my girl is threeOh, Emily: we have babies the same age. That's so funny. That's crazy. Wild. But it's true, like you can't make them be good through [00:27:00] fear or punishment like ever. Ever and . And then it just always makes things worse. It always makes things worse. And that's why like, I mean, that's why it's so hard oftentimes to have like rational discussions about things like drugs or religion because like people just get too emotionally involved and you kind of think like, you're gonna, you're gonna believe my way or I'm going to hurt you.Like I'm going to defend this to the point of violence. And it's just like, that's why I , some people get mad at me. Grassroots because they felt like I didn't take a firm enough stand, you know, either way. And some people also like seem to have a really hard, a hard, they seem to have some difficulty with differentiating between smoking pot and writing about pot as like a historical phenomenon.So like a lot of people just like make these really dumb jokes, like yeah, I bet you're using a lot. Grass when you're writing grassroots or whatever. And I was like, No. I was writing like a [00:28:00] deeply researched, like historical book based off of my PhD dissertation. Like, no, I wasn't high the whole time. Like, that's ridiculous.But people were upset with me because I wasn't taking firm enough stand. Like I wasn't coming out like very strongly as an activist for legalization or, or alternatively against it. I didn't make my, my political position clear enough. And I don't know if. Like in the same way you're saying like, Well who should legislate morality?You know, in the same way, I don't feel like history books necessarily have to be legislating morality, right? Like I don't feel like I needed to tell people what to believe. I just wanted to tell them what happened and how we got here. So that as things move forward and as we continue to watch this really like unique historical period evolve, we'll be more prepared to understand.The potential downsides that might occur or the potential benefits that might occur, and like try to maybe guide the process [00:29:00] more toward the benefits, like rather than the downsides. So it's, you know, I do feel like there's a real need to understand drugs in like a non-emotional, non hot take, non, like just understanding them as like a historical artifact where.Certain things have happened from 1917 to today to create the world we live in, and we should probably understand how we got here. And so I wrote a book about it, , and now we're talking about it. All right, , De'Vannon: just bring it full circle. I love it. And you're right, your book is very energetically neutral. It is very energetically like neutral.Yeah, I did pick up on that. And you know, most of you know historians, they just tell what happened and so I, you know, I was interviewing somebody else and I was, and he had gotten some reviews that kind of roughed his feathers and I was telling him, You know what, I'll tell you the same thing. Like Amazon and all these different book places don't.Perform mental health test [00:30:00] on people who go in there and leave reviews . So there's no tell on what you're gonna get, so Emily: please gimme the most recent report from your therapist before you post on this review. . Oh my God. The best review I got was someone was really mad that I was mean to Nancy Reagan, and they were like, it's not like she committed tax fraud.Nancy Reagan's not that bad. And I was like, Is that your bar? Like tax fraud? Or? So that was everyone else's reviews on Amazon are almost all from my friends, so those are all nice that Perfect. They're all the friends. I ask like, Please leave an Amazon review for my book. Thank you. De'Vannon: Hey, nothing like that inner circle chosen family, baby.Oh baby. That person commented on the tax fraud, though, probably commits tax fraud and they were projecting that. Oh my Emily: god. 100%. De'Vannon: Yeah. . So I wanted to talk about Atlanta 1976 because. [00:31:00] I felt like Miss, Miss Marsha Sard, and I have to admit when I read that name immediately, Andrew DeMar Shinard from Rent from the MusicalOh my God. It came to my mind and I had to go look it up. I was like, Is there a relation here today, tomorrow for me? What's going on ? So, but there is no relation. So it's, it's Emily: inside a gay boy. No, I can't unsee it. I can't unsee it. De'Vannon: and Atlanta especially. Cause my boyfriend is from Atlanta, you know, from that area.And so Hills, well todo neighborhood. Marsha is you know, she's walks into like her teens having this party and everyone's. you know, paring it up. Her and her husband go out fine, like the weed butts and everything like that. And, and then she goes run snitch to all the other parents because of course there was other teenage there.And we all know [00:32:00] snitches get stitches, y'all. And so what I documented was the parents' reactions usually that the parents' reactions ran the gamut from shock, confusion, indignation, concern, denial, and hostility. Now in the book, you, you know, this woman is like, Slated to be a Democrat. Mm-hmm. . And so that really, really shocked me.And and her, her emotions. I don't feel like those emotions have changed over the years. I feel like that's the same way people react to Dave. Would you agree? Emily: Yeah, I think, I think you're onto something there. Yeah. Like it, it was her, her politics are really interesting. So Keith, she goes by Keith, which again is kind of.You have to get, wrap your head around this woman, this like mom of three who goes by Keith. And then it's hard cuz I'm also writing about Keith Strop, the founder of Normal, the National Organization for the reform of marijuana laws, which are like, you know, going gangbusters at this time. [00:33:00]So there's a lot of Keith's, you know, so keep the Keiths straight in your mind.But so Keith Shart is this mom She has a PhD in British literature. She's not teaching, but her husband is at Emory, and so she's like home with these kids. So like I see her as being really smart. probably pretty bored, right? Being home with kids, like when you have a PhD and you're clearly like a life of the mind kind of person.Being home with little kids can be like really boring and you can have like maybe a lot of leftover energy. And so she throws this like backyard birthday party for her 13 year old daughter. And like the kids are acting weird and she's kind of freaking out and she sees like they're up in their bedroom, like looking out in the backyard, her and her husband and they see the lighters flicker in the bushes, but they assume it's cigarettes.But the kids are like really acting funny. And so once everybody leaves, they go into the backyard and they're searching around and they [00:34:00] find. Roaches. And they also find like, like alcohol containers, right? So the kids aren't just smoke smoking pot, they're, they're drinking too. , The scandal, the scandal 13, I mean 13 is young.Like for, like, I was not, I was not playing those games at 13, but I understand that my experience is not the experience of everyone. And, and now I'm like, as a mom, I'm kind of like, Oh, if I caught Henry doing that, like I'd be probably be pretty pissed. But but anyway, so she. She goes into like hardcore activist mode, like right away, you know, she was like, Boom.And she is buoyed by the concepts of. Second wave feminism that are like really prominent at the time where you do consciousness raising groups and you get together with people who are sharing your same experience and you talk about it, right? Because the personal is political and you try to figure out a way to change society for the better.Like that is very much like the kind of social [00:35:00] milu that shoe hard is coming from in, in 76 in Atlanta. Because remember, like Atlanta's pretty liberal at this time. Like Jimmy Carter is governor and he is running for president. You know, like it's the bicentennial. Everybody's like super patriotic, right?It's an interesting time. So she gets together with all the other parents and she's like, Our kids are smoking pot. This seems to be an issue like this. This. This is, this is something we should probably pay attention to. And she kind of blames it on the fact that for the past three years, more and more states had steadily been decriminalizing marijuana possession.So it started in Oregon in 73, but by 76, I think there were probably like,Probably like six, five or six states by that point that had decriminalized, right? Georgia wasn't one of them, but others did. And so there's this burgeoning drug paraphernalia industry, like basically just like today, this was happening in the mid, the early [00:36:00] 1970s where like. A semi-legal cannabis marketplace was taking shape in America.And when a marketplace builds and expands, more people tend to utilize it. So more people were using pot, more people were smoking pot, and then it was trickling down and it was getting to kids. So like Keith Shoe hard's, daughter 13 found some pot and was smoking it at her birthday party. And like that made shard really upset.So even though she was a Democrat and she was a liberal, She was really opposed to what the liberal agenda had pushed, which was decriminalization. So she starts basically a nationwide grassroots army of parents to overturn decriminalization laws and kind of stop the burgeoning paraphernalia industry.And it just so happens that in 1984 years later, when Ronald Reagan gets elected, he takes their concept. Nationalizes [00:37:00] it further and then turns it into federal policy. So it was the parent movement that gave us basically the entire concept of just say no. So yeah, the 1980s were birthed in the 1970s in Atlanta, Georgia in 1976.De'Vannon: Right. And right. Thank you for breaking that down so beautifully. And I, and I felt like from, from the way that you wrote, you really, really wanted people to know the importance that small community groups like this actually, the impact that they have on federal policy, not as, so that we don't undervalue this or underestimate.Totally. Emily: And so it's amazing. Well, when you tap into a zeitgeist like that, like, like what, what Shoe hard and other people in Atlanta tapped into was something that And ended up people were feeling nationwide. And that's the exact same thing that was happening with medical marijuana laws. And it's the exact same thing that's happening with legalization laws now.I mean, people are tapping into like it's a zeitgeist straight now. You know? Like more like I think Maryland, where I live is, I think we're [00:38:00] voting to legalize this. I think we're voting to legalize next month. Like it's movement, baby. It's movement. De'Vannon: May the force be with you? May Emily: the force be, I think it'll pass pretty easily.I think it'll pass pretty easily. Now it's just a matter of what the market will look like, what we'll actually do with it in the. Which is crazy. It's a De'Vannon: step. The thing that stood out to me about Mrs. Manas, was she, she, she kept saying like, it was like, for the children, you, the children, half of the children, you know, I'm getting like flashbacks to one division, you know, for Disney when they're, you know, her and vision, you know, Wanda Envision, you know, wanting to max him off.Yeah. Marvel, you know, I'm like, geeking out right now. But , they kept saying that thing for the children and there weren't any fucking children. Because she had, she had put 'em all to sleep, but she, I, I was like, Okay, I wonder if she asked the children what they want or was she just using them to enforce her agenda every time?I see like a [00:39:00] politician, especially like, I mean, you know, especially like the Republican and stuff like that, wanting to enact negative policies on behalf of veterans. For instance, me being a military veteran, I always, I'm like, I don't want you to do that. Like everything you're doing, I don't want you to do.You didn't ask me . So, but they're like, Our veterans wouldn't want my choice. Yeah. no. And so, I don't know. That stood out to me like right, like the children, but they don't. I don't know what to call that. What do you call that when people do that? Are they, are they calling themselves doing it in the name of righteousness?Are they getting, Now you're a parent now, so you have this feeling. Would you go and do something this adverse on behalf of your children without consulting their opinion FirstAnd I don't understand Emily: that they prefer that. Right. They would love to, they'd love to gimme their opinions. Right. But you know, I. I think you're to a really important question, right? Which is like, [00:40:00] where do the rights of children end and the rights of adults begin, right? So like when, when Keith, Shar, and every and everybody else in the parent movement is saying, Oh my God.We have to repeal decriminalization laws because of the children. Like do it for the children. The children are being harmed by these drugs. But then that transforms from like, we have to have these laws for the children to, We have to excessively punish. Adults for drug possession or dealing or whatever else excessively punish them.Like especially after the 1986 Drug Abuse Act, right? When you're getting mandatory minimums of 5, 10, 15 years when we're locking up millions of people for drug possession. Like where does the rights of children end And like the range of adults in and the pushback to that. But what about the children line of thought did finally start to come in the nineties, right?[00:41:00] When marijuana legalization efforts dovetailed with the gay rights movement in what I think is just one of the most fascinating, like historical co ever, right? So in California, in San Francisco, as AIDS is starting to. Decimate the gay population. You have a couple of activists, including Dennis Perran and Brownie Mary Rath Fund, whose real name is Mary Jane, which is crazy.They're using marijuana to like give to these aids patients who, like doctors don't wanna touch, nobody wants to get near them. No one knows what to do. No one knows how to treat hiv. It's brand new. Right? And Brownie Mary and Dennis Perran are. Have a, have a pot and infuse brownie, like you're gonna get your appetite back, Your nausea is gonna chill out.You're gonna feel pretty good. You're gonna have some energy. You can like go to the [00:42:00] bank. You can do like an errand right before you die. A horribly of aids like my God. Right? So they're saying, where did the rights of children end? Yes. We kept children so safe from pot that like by the early eighties, like no one is smoking pot anymore and we're locking.Tens of thousands of people, right? Like every month, right? Okay, great. We've done it. We won the drug war. But now it turns out this substance does have some medical utility for a patient group that is increasingly becoming like really sympathetic. You know, like cuz you have, I mean Arthur Ash contracts, hiv God, that little boy got it through like a blood transfusion or something.So you start to like have like really sympathetic feelings towards, Oh, Princess Diana visits the HIV clinic in the San Francisco General Hospital. Right? Like suddenly it becomes really sympathetic and laws start to change, right? Suddenly adults rights, especially like adults dying of AIDS and cancer, like their rights become much more important than protecting children from pot.And then, [00:43:00] Can kind of move like fast forward into the two thousands. 2010, the legalization movement joins with the social justice movement. So in 2010, Michelle Alexander publishes her book The New Jim Crow, Mass Incarceration in the Age of Color Blindness, which is canonical at this point. Canonical, I tell you, and like it is all.The effects of locking up nonviolent offenders, the vast majority of which are black men. Like, well, what have we done in America By locking up millions of people, more people, more black people are incarcerated in the United States than in South Africa at the height of apartheid. Like what effects does that have culturally, socially, economically?It has effects. And she lays them out and we're all like, Oh my God. Now we know. And laws started to change right after that, right? In 2012, you have the first states legalized Colorado and Washington by combining legalization [00:44:00] with calls for social justice, right? If cannabis is the source of massive amounts of black incarceration, legalized cannabis, right?That's one way to like act on social justice, and it was also legalized through. Outright calls for generating tax revenue, right? Like here is something that we can legalize and tax the be Jesus out of. And not only are we like doing good on social justice initiatives, but we're also gonna make a boatload of money.Like it's a total win-win at the moment. And that's basically, again, arguments for the rights of adults, right? Should we, should we incarcerate X number of million of people, millions of people for cannabis possession? So again, like. Argument for its children's rights, which was like so immensely powerful in the 1970s and eighties has now I would say, really been pushed to the back burner by almost three decades of really concerted and very powerful and very influential activism for adults rights to access cannabis, [00:45:00] for medical, and then social justice and economic initiatives.De'Vannon: And that's the tea. Y'all, Y'all have it? Emily . Emily: There's, there's 50 years of cannabis history guys. Woo. . De'Vannon: And, you know, I work with you know, so many people right now, and I, and I, I love how you, I feel like your book is almost like a, a user's manual for people who wanna get into this fight. You know, you're giving historical context, you're giving advice and everything.And so You know, I'm thinking about, you know, a friend of mine if her name is iFit Harvey, she runs the people of Color Collective. People of color, Psychedelic Collective, which is based out of New York City. And you know, and I, and I work with them, you know, I just did an interview, you know, for, I gave them an interview the other day and we were talking about like you know, marijuana, you know, the way it's, you know, criminalized here in Louisiana where I live versus where one of their.[00:46:00]Satellite locations is in Oregon, in Portland. And so, you know, things like this are very helpful you know, for young people cuz these people are really, really like young who have started this, you know, psychedelic collective and everything like that. And so I think, yeah. Right. I think books like this are so like, useful.So we're nearing the end of our hour and so I just wanted to mention. You mentioned normal earlier. I wanna tell people that stands for the I think you said, at the National Organization for the Reform rather than repe of marijuana laws. And then we'll go right into talking about like your your lessons and things like that.And, and we may just pick like one or two that that's important to you. But and so another little, a final ex sweep from the book. I'm channeling my inner Bugs Bunny, so an ex. From the book, it says normal, you know, or ML argue that marijuana smokers or consumers not deviance and deserve the same rights to protection and [00:47:00] safety as any other group.Including access to the drug without pollutants or contaminants. A competitive marketplace free from monopolies and conglomerates, and especially freedom from harassment by the poll lease. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. felt like a, a Southern Sunday. GodEmily: I love it. I want you to record the audio book. That's great. I love it. . De'Vannon: Oh, I'll do it. I love getting on this microphone right here and do it. I did my own audio book. Oh, that's awesome. And so I wanted to bring that up because like you had normal fighting for it. You had Miss, Miss Minnaar fighting against it back then.Like you say in the book, we have the same thing now because I don't want people to wrestling their laurels and get so comfortable thinking that it's a home run. It's a clean slate. You know? We must stay vigilant. Emily: Mm. Yes, totally. I think that's, I mean, it, it does [00:48:00] feel like to me, I feel like. Pot becomes the scariest drug around when there's no other boogie in.So in like the 1970s, early 1970s when the first decriminalization laws were being passed, we're also kind of going through a heroin epidemic, right? And right now we've been going through the opioid epidemic for like, whoa, 30 years or so, . But it's kind of coming to its natural. At the same time that the legal cannabis marketplace is really starting to heat up and when opioids become like, when there's no like, like meth was a boogieman for a while.Crack was a boogieman for a while, but opioids have been a bo the boogieman for like 30 years. And if that starts to tamp down, if we start to feel less scared about that and there's like sort of like a void in like the drug boogieman cuz you know, we always need a drug boogieman. We're America, we need a drug boogieman and.Pot. Well sometimes I think come back and fill that [00:49:00] role. Like there, there could be widespread rejection of the legal marketplace. I mean, in certain places, right? Like in Massachusetts that legalized. However long ago, some communities don't want it, and they are allowed to say within that state's jurisdiction.We do not want any cannabis marketplaces within our community borders. So there's gonna be some nimbyism and there's going to be some nimbyism like, yes, in my backyard to it. But again, it's, you don't know what's like, we don't know what's going to happen. This is a brand new marketplace that could bust its boots like.I mean, it's been around for a decade now, which is amazing. But things are gonna get big fast and if people don't like it, it could very well turn, turn back around. I mean, that's not impossible. It's not, it's improbable, but not impossible. Mm-hmm. . De'Vannon: So what I'll do in the interest of time, I'll just read the title of each of the six letter , then people can go and buy the book to get the advice that you have in there.Do it. I think that and after I [00:50:00] read the titles, and I'll let you have our last word. . Which is a, which is another a page I borrowed from the book of Joy read because she she always gives her guests, you know, like the last word and everything like that. And so I thought you a good idea. I'm very inspired by that woman, and so, oh, I love it.So, lesson one, make your argument as sympathetic as possible. The lesson two, it's all about the money. lesson three. Be prepared to watch your progress disappear. That's the most shocking one for me and in my inten, in my opinion, the most sobering, less than four. Don't rely too heavily on the White House, and she means over multiple administrations.And then less than five, respect your opposition, less than six. Keep a sense of perspective, which is also a statement of humility. So her website is emily din.com, Social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, India, [00:51:00] Instagram, medium. Oh podcast. You can listen to Emily conduct interviews, new books.Networks has a Drugs Addiction and Recovery podcast. This book is grass Roots. And then she already mentioned the other one she has coming out. So with that, I'm gonna shut my cock up. And any last , anything that you would like to say and just take it away, darling. Emily: Oh, My gratitude is to you for, for having me, but also for bringing your message and your love, and your light and your spirit to the people.I am grateful to you and for all the work you do. So thank you very much. De'Vannon: All right. Thanks everybody for tuning in. Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. Emily: Don't eat Fentanyl Candy .De'Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you [00:52:00] can find more information and resources at Sex Drugs and jesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon, and it's been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is gonna be right. 

Fury Young and BL Shirelle are the powerhouse team behind Die Jim Crow Records, the first non-profit record label in United States history for currently and formerly incarcerated musicians. DJC Records' mission is to dismantle stereotypes around race and prison in America by amplifying the voices of our artists. As a pair, Fury Young and BL Shirelle form a perhaps unlikely, but unstoppable duo. Young is a Jewish New Yorker who has not experienced incarceration. Shirelle is a queer, Black woman from Philadelphia who has been heavily impacted by police violence and incarceration. The two formed an inseparable bond. As friends, musical collaborators and now Co-Executive Directors of Die Jim Crow Records, their leadership and commitment to values of representation, fairness, passion for the cause, and a love for art, are at the core of DJC."Well, I got the idea in 2013 when I was a wee young 23-year-old activist, and I had been studying history at Los Angeles City College, and I took this class on genocide that had a huge impact on me, and it also coincided, just the timing, with the Occupy Wall Street movement. So then two years later in 2013, I was reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, and the book is about how mass incarceration is like a modern-day racial caste system. And I just heavily related to the book. I grew up around some impacted people. I had a mentor who was formerly incarcerated named Alexander, who was actually Muhammad Ali's bodyguard.And I just got the idea to do an album, because I was listening to a lot of concept albums like Pink Floyd, The Wall. And it started from there, just a little seed and a spark of just this idea for this one album. And then over time, it just evolved into an EP, and then a record label and a nonprofit. And here we are."www.diejimcrow.comhttp://www.blshirelle.comhttp://www.furyyoung.comwww.creativeprocess.info www.oneplanetpodcast.org

"Well, I got the idea in 2013 when I was a wee young 23-year-old activist, and I had been studying history at Los Angeles City College, and I took this class on genocide that had a huge impact on me, and it also coincided, just the timing, with the Occupy Wall Street movement. So then two years later in 2013, I was reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, and the book is about how mass incarceration is like a modern-day racial caste system. And I just heavily related to the book. I grew up around some impacted people. I had a mentor who was formerly incarcerated named Alexander, who was actually Muhammad Ali's bodyguard.And I just got the idea to do an album, because I was listening to a lot of concept albums like Pink Floyd, The Wall. And it started from there, just a little seed and a spark of just this idea for this one album. And then over time, it just evolved into an EP, and then a record label and a nonprofit. And here we are."Fury Young and BL Shirelle are the powerhouse team behind Die Jim Crow Records, the first non-profit record label in United States history for currently and formerly incarcerated musicians. DJC Records' mission is to dismantle stereotypes around race and prison in America by amplifying the voices of our artists. As a pair, Fury Young and BL Shirelle form a perhaps unlikely, but unstoppable duo. Young is a Jewish New Yorker who has not experienced incarceration. Shirelle is a queer, Black woman from Philadelphia who has been heavily impacted by police violence and incarceration. The two formed an inseparable bond. As friends, musical collaborators and now Co-Executive Directors of Die Jim Crow Records, their leadership and commitment to values of representation, fairness, passion for the cause, and a love for art, are at the core of DJC.www.diejimcrow.comhttp://www.blshirelle.comhttp://www.furyyoung.comwww.creativeprocess.info www.oneplanetpodcast.org

Fury Young and BL Shirelle are the powerhouse team behind Die Jim Crow Records, the first non-profit record label in United States history for currently and formerly incarcerated musicians. DJC Records' mission is to dismantle stereotypes around race and prison in America by amplifying the voices of our artists. As a pair, Fury Young and BL Shirelle form a perhaps unlikely, but unstoppable duo. Young is a Jewish New Yorker who has not experienced incarceration. Shirelle is a queer, Black woman from Philadelphia who has been heavily impacted by police violence and incarceration. The two formed an inseparable bond. As friends, musical collaborators and now Co-Executive Directors of Die Jim Crow Records, their leadership and commitment to values of representation, fairness, passion for the cause, and a love for art, are at the core of DJC."Well, I got the idea in 2013 when I was a wee young 23-year-old activist, and I had been studying history at Los Angeles City College, and I took this class on genocide that had a huge impact on me, and it also coincided, just the timing, with the Occupy Wall Street movement. So then two years later in 2013, I was reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, and the book is about how mass incarceration is like a modern-day racial caste system. And I just heavily related to the book. I grew up around some impacted people. I had a mentor who was formerly incarcerated named Alexander, who was actually Muhammad Ali's bodyguard.And I just got the idea to do an album, because I was listening to a lot of concept albums like Pink Floyd, The Wall. And it started from there, just a little seed and a spark of just this idea for this one album. And then over time, it just evolved into an EP, and then a record label and a nonprofit. And here we are."www.diejimcrow.comhttp://www.blshirelle.comhttp://www.furyyoung.comwww.creativeprocess.info www.oneplanetpodcast.org

"Well, I got the idea in 2013 when I was a wee young 23-year-old activist, and I had been studying history at Los Angeles City College, and I took this class on genocide that had a huge impact on me, and it also coincided, just the timing, with the Occupy Wall Street movement. So then two years later in 2013, I was reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, and the book is about how mass incarceration is like a modern-day racial caste system. And I just heavily related to the book. I grew up around some impacted people. I had a mentor who was formerly incarcerated named Alexander, who was actually Muhammad Ali's bodyguard.And I just got the idea to do an album, because I was listening to a lot of concept albums like Pink Floyd, The Wall. And it started from there, just a little seed and a spark of just this idea for this one album. And then over time, it just evolved into an EP, and then a record label and a nonprofit. And here we are."Fury Young and BL Shirelle are the powerhouse team behind Die Jim Crow Records, the first non-profit record label in United States history for currently and formerly incarcerated musicians. DJC Records' mission is to dismantle stereotypes around race and prison in America by amplifying the voices of our artists. As a pair, Fury Young and BL Shirelle form a perhaps unlikely, but unstoppable duo. Young is a Jewish New Yorker who has not experienced incarceration. Shirelle is a queer, Black woman from Philadelphia who has been heavily impacted by police violence and incarceration. The two formed an inseparable bond. As friends, musical collaborators and now Co-Executive Directors of Die Jim Crow Records, their leadership and commitment to values of representation, fairness, passion for the cause, and a love for art, are at the core of DJC.www.diejimcrow.comhttp://www.blshirelle.comhttp://www.furyyoung.comwww.creativeprocess.info www.oneplanetpodcast.org

In today's episode I'm joined by fashion designer, educator and founder of the brand Arielle, Arielle Crawford. What sparked today's conversation was a piece she published in 2021 on her brand's website arguing against the use of prison labor in fashion. Her sustainable apparel label is not only committed to preserving the integrity of ethical labor and manufacturing within the industry, but it is also committed to serving as a leader in climate activism as well. Crawford serves as the leader of the Citizens' Climate Lobby's Fashion Industry Action Team. She also makes sure that through her own brand she is pioneering a path for fashion brands alike to engage in more sustainable and earth-friendly design practices. In today's discussion we'll talk about all of this and more! You can follow Arielle Crawford on Instagram to stay updated on all that she is doing to change fashion and the world from her homestead in Texas. Also be sure the shop the brand Arielle by checking out her website here. In today's discussion, Arielle also makes mention of Ava DuVernay's documentary film 13th and I agree that it is one you should definitely watch. You can find it on Netflix or on Netflix's Youtube account linked here. And as my final call-to-action, make sure you check out Michelle Alexander's book The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. Website Instagram --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

My guest today is Rafael Mangual. Rafael is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and Head of Research at their policing and public safety initiative. His new book is called "Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts Most".In this episode, we discuss the nationwide push for defunding and de-policing starting in the summer of 2020. We talk about the so-called root causes of crime. We talk about Ava DuVernay's documentary "13th" and Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow". We discuss the causes of mass incarceration. We talk about cash bail and bail reform. We also go on to talk about legalizing weed and much more. -Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code [20COLEMAN] at Manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com and use code [20COLEMAN].-Sign up through wren.co/coleman to make a difference in the climate crisis, and Wren will plant 10 extra trees in your name!-Sign up today at butcherbox.com/COLEMAN to get two, 10 oz New York strip steaks and 8 oz of lobster claw and knuckle meat FREE in your first order.

My guest today is Rafael Mangual. Rafael is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and Head of Research at their policing and public safety initiative. His new book is called "Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts Most". In this episode, we discuss the nationwide push for defunding and de-policing starting in the summer of 2020. We talk about the so-called root causes of crime. We talk about Ava DuVernay's documentary "13th" and Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow". We discuss the causes of mass incarceration. We talk about cash bail and bail reform. We also go on to talk about legalizing weed and much more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest today is Rafael Mangual. Rafael is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and Head of Research at their policing and public safety initiative. His new book is called "Criminal (In)Justice: What the Push for Decarceration and Depolicing Gets Wrong and Who It Hurts Most".In this episode, we discuss the nationwide push for defunding and de-policing starting in the summer of 2020. We talk about the so-called root causes of crime. We talk about Ava DuVernay's documentary "13th" and Michelle Alexander's book "The New Jim Crow". We discuss the causes of mass incarceration. We talk about cash bail and bail reform. We also go on to talk about legalizing weed and much more. -Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code [20COLEMAN] at Manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com and use code [20COLEMAN].-Sign up through wren.co/coleman to make a difference in the climate crisis, and Wren will plant 10 extra trees in your name!-Sign up today at butcherbox.com/COLEMAN to get two, 10 oz New York strip steaks and 8 oz of lobster claw and knuckle meat FREE in your first order.

Today, we're sharing the first episode of a new series from Futuro Media and PRX. We Imagine…Us is a powerfully crafted dual set of podcasts designed to inspire and elevate innovative ideas and solutions for some of the most pressing problems facing our communities as they confront decades of racial inequality. For the first time ever, Futuro Media is producing an original fiction podcast along with PRX, “We Imagine…Us: The Long Way Around,” starring Emmy-winner Karrueche Tran in her debut podcast performance. The compelling and audio-rich series takes us on a journey filled with twists and turns through the center of the country and explores themes of racial injustice, family and community healing and solidarity while telling the story of a father and daughter's journey to build a new life for themselves. This compelling audio drama holds up a mirror to the challenges of our contemporary world and was inspired by recent events and interviews with members of the W.K. Kellogg Foundation's Solidarity Council on Racial Equity (SCoRE) including John Legend, Ava DuVernay, Michelle Alexander, Heather McGhee and others.  A companion factual podcast series, Re-Imagination Nation with Maria Hinojosa, features interviews with these thought-leaders about where we are and about how we can work together to create a more just and equitable world. In episode one of We Imagine…Us, after serving three years for a white-collar crime, Albert "Bumpy" Watkins is released into a post-Covid America, where he has to navigate his new status as a formerly incarcerated person  and his new role as a single parent to teenager Mercy Watkins.