Podcasts about oh joy

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"Attempted Poetry and Other Misdemeanors, Oh Joy!" Sunday, April 6, 2025, 10:50 am Joy is a little word with an expansive definition. There is Joy in the hard work of trudging towards Justice. And there is the pure joy of celebration. With a spring in your step, a poem in your heart, and companions by your side, the fraught world becomes a little lighter. Sure, we hear that there is danger everywhere: Danger to the right of us, Danger to the left. Danger within and Danger without. How Foolish it is to enter the fray wearing only armor plated with rhyme, padded with a quilt of verse, and carrying shields as light as any song. Come, let us gird ourselves with a little wry humor, a bit of dry wit, and let us join the poets in defending joy even in these dark days! Carmen Barsody and Sam Dennison, Faithful Fools; Kirsten Hove-Darr; Lori Lai, Trustee; Reiko Oda Lane, organist; UUSF Choir led by Mark Sumner, director; Maria Gonzalez Gomez, soloist; Wm. García Ganz, pianist Eric Shackelford; Shulee Ong; Eli Boshears, Francisco Castellanos, Camera Operators; Jonathan Silk, Communications Director; Kelvin Jones, Jose Matias Pineda, and Francisco Castellanos, Sextons; Athena Papadakos, Flowers; Linda Messner, Head Usher

"Attempted Poetry and Other Misdemeanors, Oh Joy!" Sunday, April 6, 2025, 10:50 am Joy is a little word with an expansive definition. There is Joy in the hard work of trudging towards Justice. And there is the pure joy of celebration. With a spring in your step, a poem in your heart, and companions by your side, the fraught world becomes a little lighter. Sure, we hear that there is danger everywhere: Danger to the right of us, Danger to the left. Danger within and Danger without. How Foolish it is to enter the fray wearing only armor plated with rhyme, padded with a quilt of verse, and carrying shields as light as any song. Come, let us gird ourselves with a little wry humor, a bit of dry wit, and let us join the poets in defending joy even in these dark days! Carmen Barsody and Sam Dennison, Faithful Fools; Kirsten Hove-Darr; Lori Lai, Trustee; Reiko Oda Lane, organist; UUSF Choir led by Mark Sumner, director; Maria Gonzalez Gomez, soloist; Wm. García Ganz, pianist Eric Shackelford; Shulee Ong; Eli Boshears, Francisco Castellanos, Camera Operators; Jonathan Silk, Communications Director; Kelvin Jones, Jose Matias Pineda, and Francisco Castellanos, Sextons; Athena Papadakos, Flowers; Linda Messner, Head Usher

The Music Room.Based on a post by FinalStand, in 13 parts. Listen to the ► Podcast at Explicit Novels.  ‘My, oh my,' Taliyah murmured. She had felt the two Samsonov boys pressing in on her, Mikhail behind her and Vlad to the front. She hoped she had them right. With her heart racing and her fervor rising, she wasn't 100% sure. ‘Mikhail,' she looked over her shoulder as she moved her ass up and down his crotch, ‘this is only for you.' Her declaration was in a throaty moan.‘That's unfair,' I chuckled to Taliyah.‘Don't worry,' her head tilted up, ‘I know some tricks Brandy doesn't know.' I didn't know if that was true, or not. Finding out would be fun. I kissed her on the lips. At the same time, my brother nipped down on her shirt-covered shoulder.‘Don't be cruel,' he teased her. ‘You know he was sneaking peeks at the lodge.'‘My body; my rules,' Taliyah insisted somewhat breathlessly.‘Okay. I'll work on changing your mind,' I growled before diving in for another kiss. Our tongues battled. Taliyah placed her hands on either side of my chin, taking control of our passion. In doing so, I sensed her reticence quickly passing.‘Y'alls first time with one girl?' she purred when we came up for air. She knew it was, so I was left trying to figure out her game.For Taliyah this was a totally new experience too. The sense she had such a level of control over the masculine power encompassing her was dizzying. She hated to admit it, but looking into Vlad's eyes felt nice. His gaze was focused on her. His perceptions were seeking out her reactions and her responses, not still hooked on Brandy.In the back of her mind had been the gnawing fear she was a substitute fuck; a Brandy-surrogate in Vlad's mind. She saw none of that. His attention was eating her up and it made her so fucking hot. Even more thrilling: she was soaked, breathing heavy and trembling; and they all three still had their damn clothes on!Taliyah's fingers began fumbling with my belt.‘We've got time,' I stroked her cheek. I caught a quick signal from Mikhail. We both dove down for opposite sides of her neck, suckling, licking and nibbling on her tense muscles from collar to ear lobe. In the process, I managed to pull her shirt out of her skirt; she got my belt buckle undone. Synching our oral attacks with working our shoes off with foot-action alone, we then went straight to loosening our belts and; front first (aka me); yanked off our jeans and underwear in one brutal maneuver.‘Ah,' Taliyah gasped as my lips and tongue played along the crux of her windpipe and chin, ‘you two practice that much?'‘Yeah,' Mikhail chortled. ‘We do.'Taliyah's hand on my shoulders caused me to bring about a pause in our actions.‘Seriously?' she looked over her shoulder at my vigorous triplet.‘Why would I make up something so bizarre?' was his take on things. I could tell Taliyah 'wanted' to know more. But she simply wanted more of us both right now and figured she could interrogate us about our unusual sexual indoctrination later; post-coitus. They began kissing and their kisses became an oral battle replete with growls, rumbles and other hungry sounds.I took the distraction to rapidly unbutton Taliyah's shirt, pull it open and; Lord Hallelujah!; she had on a front-opening bra; and unleash her 'puppies'. I had talked about her preferences with neither Mikhail nor Brandy, but I'd witnessed and rewound (hey, I'm 18 years old) the footage of the lakeside orgy enough times to know she liked her nipples played with.‘Uh; uh; uh; ah; ‘ the dark-skinned beauty moaned. ‘Are you two telepathic?' she said in response to our hands reaching inside her panties and moving along her vulva and perineum, coming at her from different directions at the same time. I wasn't quite sure what inspired us; I put my thumb upon her aroused clit; it felt almost the size of the first digit of my pinkie; and reached around to insert my ring finger against her sphincter.At the same time, Mikhail was working his thumb up her bunghole and rubbing his forefinger into her vagina. She was already wet and getting wetter by the second. By the oily texture of my brother's digits, he'd somehow snuck some lubricant on them while our partner was distracted.The combination of our height differentials, our ministrations and her obvious pleasure forced my brother and I to go to our knees.‘Oh God! I need a picture of this,' Taliyah exulted. ‘Both of you on your knees around me.'‘I promise,' I looked up, ‘we'll do this again.'‘You'd better,' she beamed, looking down at me, wreathed in a cocktail of majesty and carnality. She added to that image by cupping her left breast into a mouth-watering mound. No words were necessary. I licked the rich, dark brown areola before latching onto her stubby, darker nipple. My thumb and finger were working in tandem with Mikhail's over her cunt and anus to bring her to fruition.Taliyah was struggling to keep it together. She fed her other breast to Vlad who attentively latched on and began applying a tantalizing level of suction which was driving her wild.‘Cut loose, Babe,' Mikhail whispered into her ear. He was rising back to his feet at the same time his right hand began to furiously frig her.She shot him a foul look over her shoulder.'As if he can tell me what and when I can; ' she thought to herself.‘We are in a soundproof room for a reason,' he grinned. She sensed the connection. He wasn't out to steal anything from her. Her lover was famished for even more of her sensuality and that desire was showing through. Taliyah looked heavenward; and then Howled!Emptiness Fourth Period Bell.Sultana Berry stumbled into the front of the room first. We were on our knees; Mikhail had his back to the newcomers, Taliyah was on all-fours with Mikhail doing her cunt from behind while she was giving me yet another blowjob. I was looking right at Sultana and the other cheerleaders as they entered.‘I hope this doesn't take too long,' Sultana got out, ‘because I'd; ‘ and her head turned from looking over her shoulder at her fellow cheerleaders in the hallway to the three of us a dozen feet away.‘Holy Shit!' she exclaimed.‘What?' wondered Randi Leigh who was right behind Sultana. Before she could comment, Alondra Lamb, stumbled in, with Brandy herding her and Betty Jo Starling ahead of her. ‘Oh fuck,' gasped Randi Leigh, her surprise turning quickly vindictive, ‘Brandy, your guy seems to be fucking your best friend.'Alondra scanned around seeking direction. Sultana's eyes flicked to Brandy before latching back onto my 'midsection' as Taliyah unleashed my cock from her lips allowing it to sort of sway there; hypnotically.‘'Bout time you got here,' Taliyah slurred happily to Brandy. ‘I'm tapping out.'With that, she slouched down on her left side, head resting on her biceps, serene smile on her face. Earlier we'd spread out the piano cover so we didn't have to deal with the much colder floor. Even as Mikhail let her down gently, his tool came free with a loud 'plop!', revealing its rock-hard, 'full mast' status.‘Hey Brandy, what is Randi Leigh doing here?' I beamed lust-filled affection at my girlfriend. ‘I thought you said she wasn't invited.' According to my Mother (the Evil Psychic Mistress of Misdirection), insinuating to one girl another woman didn't want you close by 'her man' made her want to get close to you. It didn't make much sense to me, but then what did I know about women? Sure enough, Randi Leigh shot Brandy an evil look.Mikhail extended his sweaty body over Taliyah, planted a few feather-light kisses on her shoulder and ear then rose up, right leg first. He quarter-turned their way.‘Alondra,' he emoted wolfishly. The smoky hot young lady blinked in surprise then pointed to herself as if to affirm she was the one he was talking to; as if there was another Alondra in this High School. There wasn't.‘Come here,' he beckoned her with a finger.‘Me?' she gulped.‘I've wanted to kiss you since the first time I saw you,' Mikhail rumbled.‘Me?' she repeated. Alondra wasn't going to win any debates with that level of verbal repertoire.‘Hold on now,' Sultana interposed herself, facing her ladies. Her mistake was taking her eyes off my brother.‘But I think he needs help getting dressed,' Alondra tried to explain. How cute.‘Brandy, what's going on here?' Sultana was looking past Alondra to the Team Co-Captain. Mikhail snuck up on Sultana quickly and quietly. I was right behind him. Randi Leigh was trying to get Sultana's attention. Too late. He moved straight into Sultana's back, driving her face to face with Alondra.‘So you think you are better than Taliyah, do you?' he breathed into Sultana's ear. She recoiled as much as she could, putting a weak elbow into his ribs. She was only partially effective in turning around. For my part, I slipped around them and went directly into Randi Leigh's personal space. Take into account both my brother and I were naked, glistening with sweat, and highly aroused;‘Randi Leigh (apparently middle names were important in cases such as this), why doesn't Brandy want you and I hanging out?' I lied.‘I never said that,' Brandy protested. If someone I had known for more than half my life told me one thing and a near-stranger told me the opposite, I would believe the person I knew well. Mom insisted Randi wouldn't believe Brandy;‘Sure you didn't,' Randi Leigh simmered while reaching down and wrapping a hand around my cock. She gave me a little yank. ‘Not bad.'‘Get off me!' Sultana demanded of Mikhail. She got her wish. Mikhail moved her aside and went after Alondra. He astonished everyone by cupping the chestnut-complexioned girl's jaw romantically in both hands and placing a kiss on her lips.‘Fucking fantastic,' he purred, then went in pursuit of a far more brutal and demanding lip-lock which took hostage the air from deep within Alondra's lungs.‘Hey,' Sultana protested. ‘Stop that.' She tried to separate my brother from his prey. Alondra complicated the issue by entwining one arm behind his head and the other around his waist, keeping him close. Wanton moans echoed from her unfathomed sensual core.Randi Leigh drank in the scene.‘I'm Rashaan's girl now,' she grinned up at me, hand still on my rod.‘I'm not going to tell him a damn thing,' I looked down at her. My left hand went along her right elbow to her shoulder all friendly-like. When Randi Leigh didn't resist, I moved my right from her hip to her ass and began bringing her close.‘I'm not going to fuck you,' her lips insisted at the same time her hand began jacking me off. ‘I don't do White guys.'‘Does cunnilingus count?' I whispered into her ear.‘Ah; ‘ she murmured. ‘Maybe not,' she finished off with a foxy grin of her own.I could begin to see the calculations going off behind those eyes. Perhaps; just perhaps; there was a reason Brandy had risked Darius' wrath to fuck me; on multiple occasions. I let my hand on her ass creep to her cleft.‘Clothes,' I teased her; as she had me on too many occasions. Meanwhile;‘Brandy?' Sultana looked to the functioning Co-Captain for intervention. Brandy had already kicked off her tennis shoes and was currently stripping down out of her jeans and panties. She was also still by the door. Only later would I realize it was because she'd sent Misty Dawn and Betty Jo Starling to escort a semi-crippled Alexander here and the door was locked, so they would need to be let in; thus necessitating her remaining close to the door.Brandy's allies on the squad, Noémie and Amber Lee, were keeping three 'opposing' cheerleaders (Vantrice, Mia and Pearl) preoccupied this lunch period. Dealing with five new cheerleaders would be stressing the three of us guys to our limits. In theory, I guessed that meant we'd pick those other five off later in the week, or on Saturday at Brandy's house.‘Taliyah and I can't keep up with these three,' Brandy exaggerated. ‘I was hoping y'all could help out this one time. Please?'‘But; ‘ Sultana sputtered. I was willing to bet 'they're White' almost spilled forth. But she spared another look to the sexually sated Taliyah instead.‘By all means, leave my Man alone,' Taliyah threatened, then yawned, stretching out like a savannah lioness. ‘I'll leave you Rashaan.'According to Mom, that wasn't an offer, it was a challenge; for Sultana to go after Mikhail. To my naïve way of thinking, he could have made it easier by switching his attention from Alondra to Sultana, who was the more dominant woman anyway. Not only was that 'not' Mikhail, it wasn't what a man did if he wanted a woman's interest. We; the men; had to play hard to get.I'd told Mom I preferred honesty. She'd told me to keep my preferences to myself and do what I was told; and I would somehow end up happier. I truly believe my Mom loves me, so I went along with her madcap advice. It worked gang-busters. The more Mikhail persisted in focusing on Alondra, the harder Sultana worked on enticing and seducing him; because he was a bastard?In comparison, I had it easier. Brandy was clearly horny for me and Randi Leigh got off on thwarting Brandy's lusts by corralling my attentions with her body motions. The more frustrated Brandy became, the more Randi Leigh's inhibitions flew out the window. She had me on my back, hand still on my cock as she guided it into her steamy folds in under two minutes. Putting on a condom? 'No time for that,' or so she claimed. Funny. I thought we had fifty minutes.Here I was feeling bad about leaving Brandy out and here she was with her triumphant smile from over Randi Leigh's shoulder. She had totally suckered Randi Leigh and me with her passionate resistance. She mouthed 'I love you' before scampering off to get the door. Alexander, Misty Dawn and Betty Jo had arrived.Under anything approaching normal group dynamics, at least one of the young ladies could have been expected to bolt this unusual erotic encounter; however the Cheer Squad was used to their Lunch Time and post-Practice orgies. In the immediate post-Darius Era, they hadn't been getting any and suddenly they had three hunky, hot and ready (even if White) guys in front of them, willing to perform.Alexander had it the easiest. He was 'infirm', so Misty Dawn decided to transfer all the gratitude she had for me not getting into a slugfest with Cousin Buck in the Parking Lot this morning to him, thus lavishing him with some intense, solo loving care. Betty Jo, momentarily at loose ends, was called over to Mikhail by Alondra, who insisted she was still trying to get him dressed;If Mikhail felt any reticence over reliving the sexual exploits of his Varangian ancestors, he didn't show it in the slightest. He soon had Alondra and Betty Jo kneeling with their haunches on their heels, licking his balls and cock-shaft while Sultana stood by his side, kissing him longingly as he massaged her pubic mound; no penetration yet. It took me a few seconds to realize he was teasing her; plus, he was able to pat the kneeling lasses on their heads when they particularly pleased him. What a fortuitous pig.I didn't have the time to verbally chastise him. As I began to work in and out of Randi Leigh's love box, twisting my hips during every intrusion, looking to increase her stimulations, she began to get really responsive and incredibly vocal. The combination of the 'aphrodisiacs' Mom had given us, plus my interrupted blowjob with Taliyah, prompted me to begin ejaculating into her womb. Whoops!‘Ugh; ugh; ugh; ugh; ugh; ugh --ugh-ugh-uh-uh-ug!' escaped from her lips and then she went off like no woman I'd ever seen before. Randi Leigh was acting as if she was having a seizure. Her long, brunette hair, normally in a ponytail, but worn loose today, whipped around her head as she thrashed and jerked atop of me. Fingernails drew bloody rivets across my pectorals as her hands scarred me from collar to mid-stomach.Her mahogany skin (she was White, but well-tanned) was more flushed than normal, her small nipples were a bright crimson within her rich reddish-brown half-dollar-sized areolas equally blood-flushed and puff. Her breathing came in staggered gasps. Then she completely locked up perpendicular to my waist, back bowed and her face finally ending up staring down at me in disbelief.All I could think of, looking back up at her, trying to make sense of the electricity spreading like fire through her veins was; 'if you figure out what I just did to you, please let me know what it was; because I may want to be more careful who I do it to in the future'.‘Uwee; ‘ escaped from her tightly constricted airways right before Randi Leigh's eyes rolled back in her head and she collapsed on my chest, utterly spent.‘Brandy?' I looked past the unconscious woman on my chest toward my vastly more experienced lover. She looked stunned. The rest of the room was quiet.‘I think; that was Randi Leigh; having an orgasm,' Brandy gasped.‘You go, Bro!' Mikhail saluted me, slamming his closed-fist over his heart; twice. With the way the three women were looking at him, he should have been more careful. I suspected they were expecting the same treatment.‘Are you sure you are okay with having sex?' Misty Dawn inquired of Alexander, even as she started yanking his pants down.‘For you; sure. I'll get my belt,' he gently caressed her cheek, ‘if you could get my shoes?'I had to push Randi Leigh up, then maneuver us around so I could carry the still blissfully unaware Randi Leigh to the piano cover to be lain beside Taliyah before returning my attentions to Brandy. I caught sight of some worry in her eyes until she realized my eyes were nearly bugged out of my head and my cock was throbbing upright and returning to duty; her completely naked body had that effect on me.‘Oh,' she giggled. ‘You're hurt.'‘It'll heal,' I ignored the pain. We met halfway. My hands went to her right breast and left face cheek to steer her head up to a kiss. Hers went to my cock; still no condom. So much for 'safe' sex.‘Ladies, Sultana's going to ruin our fun, so I gotta take care of her first before I can get back to the both of you,' Mikhail boasted.‘You think so?' Sultana Berry put forth with provocative bravado.‘Yeah,' Mikhail snorted. ‘Alondra and Betty Jo like me, so I'd like to spend some quality time with them. You'd like to think you are better than me, but we both know you aren't. So I'm about to prove it to you.'Seriously? Isn't this the moment the woman slaps the man in the face, throws a drink at him, calls him an 'asshole' (or something even less flattering), then storms out?‘I'm going to ruin you for every other women you ever try to get with,' Sultana rose to the challenge.Okay then;‘If she wasn't such a bitch,' Brandy whispered to me as she followed me to the floor, her riding me cowgirl, ‘I'd warn her.'All I could do was grunt.‘What was that?' Brandy's brow furrowed and her cute nose twitched.Had my Mother not told me this would happen; scary and far beyond weird; I would have thought I was doing something wrong. This was Brandy seeking affirmation.‘You; above me; every time it is so wonderful and new, Brandy Crystal Carson,' I replied in a soft, rich romantic voice. Just because I knew the question was coming, didn't mean I'd rehearsed a response. I went with my gut and by Brandy's near-tearful reaction, I was right on the money. Brandy leaned in, squishing her breasts against me and gave me a famished kiss.‘I feel the same way,' she murmured.‘You like blonde-haired girls with big boobs sitting on top of you too?' I joked.‘Oh,' she sat up, feigning indignation well, ‘Poo!' then she smacked my chest. Then, to further punish me, she flexed her thighs; going up and down; and undulated her vaginal walls; to give my cock a very friendly 'welcome back'.'Yikes!' Man, but that felt really good. Brandy clued in to my pleasure and was looking a bit too pleased with herself, so I pushed up with one arm and went like a lamprey for her right breast.‘Hey!' she gasped. ‘Not so rough.' Which meant 'keep at it'. ‘I said not so rough, Vlad. I'm a bit tender,' she sighed happily, reinforcing her misdirection by placing a hand on the back of my head, keeping my lips and teeth tight to her tit.'Nom-nom-nom-nom,' I happily suckled along for six, or seven minutes until;‘Hey y'all,' Alondra appeared above me/us. ‘Can I join in?'Reluctantly I released Brandy's mammary to get a quick peek at what Mikhail was up to.He was going for some hot-muff action on Sultana where she lay on top of the piano, which was, in turn, on the elevated stage. Her legs were upraised in a 'V' with her hands holding the back of each knee to hold the pose. My brother was alternating between kisses to her clit and slit and teasing her labia with his tongue and teeth; gentle-like for now. When he figured out her sensitive spots, he'd be doubling down on them rapid-fire soon enough.‘Unless my Princess claws me like a scratching post; Hell ya!' I grinned. That was a concession to my Lady's #1 status without making me sound cunt-whipped. Brandy gave a playful harrumph married to her own saucy smile. The problem was;‘Princess? Who is that?' Alondra struggled to concentrate.‘Me,' Brandy seductively wiggled off my cock. ‘He's my Prince, so I'm his Princess.'‘Oh! Like Disney?' Alondra beamed innocent understanding. ‘That's so cool.'‘Yeah,' Brandy shot me a wink. ‘Like Disney. Here, have a seat and share in the 'magic'.'‘Oh goodie!' the tawny athlete mounted my cock which Brandy was 'kind' enough to hold erect for her. She wasn't tight, but, to be honest, Alondra was snugger than my first time with Brandy; which was a thought I'd take to my grave. Her toes were on the floor, knees off the ground, gymnast's thighs like coiled springs and hands splayed on my chest; she got to bounding up and down.‘Yay!' At least I was making someone definitely happy. When I made eye contact; I; felt for Alondra. She had one; no; two marketable commodities; her exotic good looks and a willingness to work hard. Cheerleading was as much of a demanding sport as basketball. She knew the Cheer Squad's routines, and with her limited intellect, that had to mean she truly applied herself when given the chance.What Alondra needed was good friends; and someone, right now, to fuck her.‘I've never fucked a White guy before,' she blithely informed me. ‘I thought you'd be; smaller.'‘Vlad is full of surprises,' Brandy moved to my side, still smiling.‘Don't let me neglect you, Babe,' I offered. She knew what I was saying and took me up on the suggesting.She made a production of standing over my head, facing Alondra then slowly lowering herself down to my waiting mouth.‘How's he going to breath?' Alondra inquired.‘He's got great lungs,' Brandy answered. My tongue was busy sculpting out her vulva and penetrating her labia.My right hand went around the back to massage a luscious ass cheek and tickler her along her tailbone. Then the left went up and rediscovered her breasts. I could almost hate my Mother for keeping us from sex for so long; almost. To be fair, she'd also helped train us to be aggressive, appreciative and attentive lovers.It wasn't like the BBC Masters didn't do cunnilingus. Some did. The difference was we approached it as a facet of a full-on orgasmic orchestra. It wasn't just licking and sucking that clit, or labia pulling. Depending on the partner, it was spreading your attention along the upper thighs, pubic mound perineum and buttocks.Fingers, lips, tongue, nose and even whiskers could be parts of our arsenals. Keep all your senses focused on your lover as well. A twinge, chance in scent, or a stifled gasp could all be clues to what secretly turned them on. Thankfully for this encounter, I already knew Brandy pretty well and Alondra wasn't overly demanding. She wanted a nice, stiff cock and I gave her that in spades; no pun intended.‘Oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck,' Sultana began hissing. Taliyah had done wonders for Mikhail's confidence which rebounded into this pattern of quickly overwhelming whatever mental defenses she tried to put up between him and the climax he wished to tear from her.‘Oh Fuck!' she screamed. Yep. Mom's choice of the sound-proof Music Room was prescient.‘Oh; ‘ she moaned. ‘Wait; ‘‘No way,' Mikhail taunted her. ‘I'm not going to stop until you say you'll only do White boys.' Pretty much a complete race reversal, and cruelly pointless.‘Not going to; Oh Fuck!' she began to caterwaul again. I couldn't see what he was doing, but by the sound of moist slapping, I figured he had advanced to screwing her face-to-face and furiously hard.‘What's going on?' Randi Leigh finally rejoined the gathering.‘He fucked you into transcendence, you silly Cunt,' Taliyah mocked the girl.‘I; ah; it wasn't; ‘ Randi Leigh blathered.‘Don't even try,' Taliyah chuckled.‘By all means,' I could feel Brandy twist her upper body around, ‘if you never want to fuck my guy ever again; ‘‘Or mine,' Taliyah tacked on.‘Any of the Samsonov boys ever again,' Brandy dictated, ‘that's fine by me; us.'‘That's damn right,' Taliyah added.‘Oh; I'm getting all tingly,' Alondra sang out.‘When is it going to be my turn?' I had no doubt Betty Jo was pouting over her exclusion by Mikhail's devotion to Sultana.‘Oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck,' became a familiar refrain. ‘Oh Fuck!' and Sultana surrendered another orgasm to my bratty younger triplet. ‘No; ‘ she panted.‘Don't break her,' Taliyah sounded a tad jealous as well as cautionary.‘Say it,' he growled.‘Ah; ‘ was all Sultana could emote.‘Say it,' he remained ferocious. I felt obliged to tap Brandy's thigh. She was closing on her own fruition, but I wasn't sure Sultana had the time.‘Give it a rest,' Alexander protested.Brandy dismounted. Mikhail hadn't relented yet.‘Bro, Alondra's over here; dying for a three-way,' I tried a different approach. I wasn't going to swap out Alondra for Betty Jo; that would be treating the ladies like mix-and-match Legos. Betty Jo was still the only girl-neglected, but I knew from our earlier conversation Mikhail had a special hankering for Alondra; which I couldn't bring up directly without being cruel to Taliyah.Mikhail looked over his shoulder, his body still hovering over the slack form of a sated Sultana. His look was volcanic; primal, fiery;‘We aren't done,' was his parting shot to Sultana. Betty Jo was still on her knees where he'd left her. Mikhail didn't spare her a glance, advancing swiftly to us.Meanwhile;‘I do? I am?' Alondra hiccupped both surprised and happy with 'her' suggestion.For a second I was afraid Mikhail would go directly for a face-fuck. Alondra was certainly set up for it. Instead, at the last second he went in for a deep French kiss full of tongue, mutual nose-breathing and finishing with his teeth pulling playfully on her upper lip.‘I'm bouncing on your brother,' Alondra gleefully, breathlessly and pointlessly related.‘I can see,' he chuckled. My youngest triplet didn't have to be an asshole. ‘I think I'm going to be pouncing on you.'Alondra had no comeback. My bet was she didn't know what 'pounce' meant. Mikhail moved behind the medium-brown beauty. It occurred to me the deeply-tanned Brandy and natural-complexioned Alondra were virtually the same skin color.Otherwise they were different enough. Brandy was a natural blonde. Alondra had kinky, black hair with blonde highlights. One with dark-blue eyes and the other hazel. Alondra was taller by a few inches. Brandy had the larger bust and hips. Alondra's buttocks were accentuated to the top while Brandy's were more balanced hemispheres. I couldn't tell whose smile I liked more.‘I like White boys,' she huffed as a way of greeting Mikhail's transition from 'kisser' to man-boy pressing in behind her. There was no way he was going for her ass without causing her a great deal of pain. He had another idea.‘Seesaw?' he looked over her shoulder. Oh!I put my hands under each of her thighs and lifted her up and forward.‘Eep!' she squeaked followed by ‘Hey; No,' when my cock popped out.‘Here you go,' Mikhail soothed her. In his cock went.‘Oh yeah,' she was immediately mollified.‘Why does she get two of them?' Betty Jo complained.‘Yeah,' Randi Leigh grumbled. ‘Why does she get both of them?'‘Because she asked really, really nice,' Mikhail addressed the others. Brandy shot me a curious look. Since she had her back to the others I felt it was safe to share my own confusion.‘When did that happen?' Taliyah pseudo-teased 'us'.At the same time, Alondra rocked forward. When she settled back, it was my cock inside her once more. Taliyah had gotten dual-vaginal and anal after we had 'prepped' her.‘We're telepathic,' Mikhail responded. Alondra didn't care.‘You'd better not be,' Taliyah muttered.Yeah, we had to do something about this. The next time we switched back, I pulled myself further up and away from Alondra. Mikhail picked up on my clues and went to regular doggy-style, his back pressing on hers, his left arm supporting his weight while his right reached under and began to manipulate her clit between two of his fingers in a tender, circular motion.‘Ah-ah-ah Shit!,' Misty Dawn announced her own eruption to all of us. It turned out she and Alexander shared their 'moment'; their synergy further multiplying their sensory overload.I had barely moved into a kneeling position in front of Alondra. We kissed which left me rather unprepared for;‘Now it's my turn,' Betty Jo pushed Brandy aside in her rush to grapple with me. Oh Joy!Mom and Dominique.‘Ms. Malik, there is a Mrs. Samsonov here to see you,' Riley buzzed Madam Mayor. Dominique bit down on her anger; and fear. Chinedu had been so plastered, he couldn't properly remember the events of the previous evening clearly and Taliyah hadn't felt the need to remind him. None of that erased the feel of the middle Samsonov boy's; everything, or the wrongness of those actions.Chief of Police Quinterre had yet to slither through her doorway, though that was something she had to prepare for. The beating Alexander (she wasn't fooled by whatever deception Gayle Fonteneau/Samsonov had perpetrated) took at school had been both troubling and welcome; since it served as a major distraction to 'that night'.Darius'; destruction had been a peal of thunder after Alexander's beating. Now the Arkansas State Police were nosing around and her 'mole' inside the Davis County Sheriff's Department had become reticent to supply her with useful information.‘Tell Mrs. Samsonov I don't have room in my schedule today. Perhaps she can avail herself of our city's website, or attempt an e-mail,' Dom answered.‘She says she'll wait,' Riley replied.'Ah shit; that bitch'; ‘Fine. I will give her five minutes in; thirty.'‘Yes Ma'am,' Riley sang out.Dominique frowned. Riley appeared 'upbeat'. Which black snake was pounding her fat ass and cunt now? Damn it; one more unexpected headache. Thirty minutes rolled around and Gayle hadn't departed like any sane individual would, so Riley showed her in.‘Riley, you can go,' Dom dismissed her White 'Political Assistant'.Riley kept smiling like a fool.‘Yes Ms. Malik,' the girl nodded.‘See you this evening, Riley,' Gayle smiled. Riley's smile deepened into something definitely sensual. Dominique was going to have to school her Jew Ass again. Spending time with Gayle Fonteneau was the opposite of helping out.‘Hi Dom,' Gayle settled into the seat across from Dominique.‘Call me Madam Mayor,' Dom bit back. ‘What do you want?' Gayle's grin turned into a vicious leer. ‘And leave Riley alone, damn you.'‘I was curious if Chinedu's sagging black ball sack has become a suitably dark shade of blue; I see from the look of his two main whores, they have,' Gayle chuckled.‘Bitch,' Dom seethed. ‘What do you; think you have on me?'‘Not a damn thing,' Gayle kept chortling. Dom was more convinced than ever the evil harlot had lost her damn mind. ‘Welcome to dealing with decent human beings, Dom. My boys didn't tell me a fucking thing. They certainly didn't gather any footage of supposed misdeeds.'Dom processed what she was and wasn't being told.<

Luke 7:18-35 • Third Sunday in Advent

Founder and Creative Director Joy Cho has authored seven books and consulted for hundreds of creative businesses. Joy has given keynote speeches on entrepreneurship, leadership, and business at conferences and companies, including Alt Summit, Pinterest HQ, Target HQ, and Hallmark HQ. For two years in a row, Joy was named one of Time's 30 Most Influential People on the Internet and has the most followed account on Pinterest with over 15 million followers. Most recently, Joy's house and studio have been featured in House Beautiful, Parents, and Domino Magazines.Through her namesake, Oh Joy!, she's created a wide range of licensed products, including home decor, kids, pet, and furniture collections, with brands such as Target, Band-Aid, Petco, Rockport, and more. In this episode, Nada sits down with Joy to discuss the making of her Oh Joy! brand and its many iterations over the years. The two talk about Joy's early days of blogging and her title of "most followers on Pinterest." Joy takes us through her entrepreneurial journey, including downsizing, finding herself in a mid-life crisis, and rethinking what she needed from her work and life. She shares how she's gained a new perspective from an old game and how she's reclaiming her life on her terms.Check out Joy's website for links to her blog, substack, shop, and academy. Follow on Instagram: @ohjoyPlease follow us at @thisislibertyroad on Instagram; we want to share and connect with you and hear your thoughts and comments. Please rate and review this podcast. It helps to know if these conversations inspire and equip you to consider your possibilities and lean into your future with intention Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today's Rantzerker Karen, Alison and Brian will be looking at a new video from FunkyFrogBait which attempts to rationalize her own insanity about the man v bear meme. OH JOY. Join us at 4pm Eastern!

This is the latest episode in the ONE THING series, where I host conversations with interesting people and ask them the ONE THING they would tell you. You might know Joy Cho as the bright, stylish, happy face and founder of Oh Joy!, a lifestyle brand with millions of followers and whose products and designs have appeared in Target, Petco, House Beautiful (to name a few) and in collaborations with Keds, Casetify, Calpak (and more). But even with a soaring career, Joy experienced a midlife crisis after a hard season in her family and a series of professional setbacks. She tried all the things you're supposed to when you're struggling: therapy, a life coach, but there was really ONE THING that pulled her out of a long funk. In our conversation, Joy and I talk about how I fanned out on her not once but twice, how an outfit can change the way you move through the day, and why it helps to remember what we loved to do when we were kids. I knew Joy would bring wisdom and insight to the show, and of course she over delivered. Learn more about Joy Cho Follow Joy on Instagram Follow Oh Joy on Pinterest FULL SHOW NOTES HERE MENTIONED in this episode: Find all of Joy Cho's books here Creative, Inc. (published 2010) Blog, Inc. (published 2012) Joy's mental-health-focused Substack   SUBSCRIBE to 10 Things To Tell You so you never miss an episode! CLICK HERE for episode show notes FOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on Instagram FOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on Facebook JOIN the 10 Things To Tell You Connection Group SIGN UP for episode emails, links, and show notes JOIN the Secret Stuff Patreon BUY THE BOOK: Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First. by Laura Tremaine BUY THE BOOK: The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs by Laura Tremaine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is the latest episode in the ONE THING series, where I host conversations with interesting people and ask them the ONE THING they would tell you. You might know Joy Cho as the bright, stylish, happy face and founder of Oh Joy!, a lifestyle brand with millions of followers and whose products and designs have appeared in Target, Petco, House Beautiful (to name a few) and in collaborations with Keds, Casetify, Calpak (and more).But even with a soaring career, Joy experienced a midlife crisis after a hard season in her family and a series of professional setbacks. She tried all the things you're supposed to when you're struggling: therapy, a life coach, but there was really ONE THING that pulled her out of a long funk.In our conversation, Joy and I talk about how I fanned out on her not once but twice, how an outfit can change the way you move through the day, and why it helps to remember what we loved to do when we were kids.I knew Joy would bring wisdom and insight to the show, and of course she over delivered.Learn more about Joy ChoFollow Joy on InstagramFollow Oh Joy on PinterestFULL SHOW NOTES HEREMENTIONED in this episode:Find all of Joy Cho's books hereCreative, Inc. (published 2010)Blog, Inc. (published 2012)Joy's mental-health-focused Substack SUBSCRIBE to 10 Things To Tell You so you never miss an episode!CLICK HERE for episode show notesFOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on InstagramFOLLOW @10ThingsToTellYou on FacebookJOIN the 10 Things To Tell You Connection GroupSIGN UP for episode emails, links, and show notesJOIN the Secret Stuff PatreonBUY THE BOOK: Share Your Stuff. I'll Go First. by Laura TremaineBUY THE BOOK: The Life Council: 10 Friends Every Woman Needs by Laura Tremaine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On this week's radio hour Courtenay Turner explores the Democrats Joy campaign, it's Nazi history and how it's tied to this unofficial SDG and hermetic principles. It's a bit of a whacky ride but what else would you expect from the UN cult? Buckle up and enjoy the ride! H/T to @coddlethis42 on Twitter for raising my awareness of this unofficial SDG 0 which lead me to learn of the proposed SDG 18. Listen weekly as Courtenay broadcasts deeper dives into truth, globally via the WWCR airwaves. Catch the Courtenay Turner Show, LIVE every Monday at 3pm CST. Tune in LIVE via Shortwave Radio on 9.350mHz, or via MP3 stream at: https://bit.ly/CourtenayTurnerShow ____________________________________________________________________ ▶ GET On-Demand Access for Courtenay's Cognitive Liberty Conference: https://cognitivelibertyconference.com ▶ Follow & Connect with Courtenay:
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 ▶ Disclaimer: this is intended to be inspiration & entertainment. We aim to inform, inspire & empower. Guest opinions/ statements are not a reflection of the host or podcast. Please note these are conversational dialogues. All statements and opinions are not necessarily meant to be taken as fact. Please do your own research. Thanks for watching! 
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 ©2024 All Rights Reserved Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

One trait that you inherited from your mom..

One trait that you inherited from your mom.. To support this ministry financially, visit: https://www.oneplace.com/donate/728/29

If there is one thing CheapShow loves without exception, it's Tomy toys from yesteryear! We've covered much of their back catalogue in the past, but this week we have three items that are very beloved. Paul and Eli get to tinker with kitties in a Water Wonderland game, battle sharks with the Tomytronic 3D “Shark Attack” toy and take on the challenge of Screwball Scramble: Level 2! How will Tomy fare? Only CheapShow has the answers! Also on the show, we wet our whistles with three soft drinks, two of which will probably be godawful, and investigate “milky straws” that are filled with candy flavoured beads. Will they make the milk better or worse? We sample two new “Candy Cans” but it's almost a foregone conclusion that the cheap chaps will not take kindly to them. Maybe Eli's new Red Bull (sigh) will save the day? If not, don't worry, as Eli is obsessed with making crude jokes involving genitals and types of fish. As you can expect, Paul isn't too impressed, but despite suffering from food poisoning whilst recording, he's going to have to craft a gag to appease Eli before the day is over. Oh Joy! See pics/videos for this episode on our website: https://www.thecheapshow.co.uk/ep-389-the-tomy-triple And if you like us, why not support us: www.patreon.com/cheapshow If you want to get involved, email us at thecheapshow@gmail.com And if you want to, follow us on Twitter/X @thecheapshowpod or @paulgannonshow & @elisnoid www.thecheapshow.co.uk Now on Threads: @cheapshowpod Like, Review, Share, Comment... LOVE US! MERCH Official CheapShow Merch Shop: www.redbubble.com/people/cheapshow/shop www.cheapmag.shop Thanks also to @vorratony for the wonderful, exclusive art: www.tinyurl.com/rbcheapshow Send Us Stuff: CheapShow PO BOX 1309 Harrow HA1 9QJ

Annabel Abbs (English novelist; author of Sleepless) was crippled with insomnia. Rather than fight it she looked for its productive plus side and discovered that many incredible creatives have needed to stay awake to access their best selves – their Night Selves. Particularly women, as it turns out. Annabel chats to me about how famous writers, painters and Hollywood stars have used their sleeplessness to create their best work, and the science that explains why this happens - the role hormones play, how the nocturnal quietening of the prefrontal cortex affects women's ability to access their creative courage and how we can access our body's hallucinogens! We also cover why it's good to stay awake in a full moon, why women need to invest in blackout curtains (to cut their cancer risk!) and the role of feminist rage in all this!SHOW NOTESGet hold of Annabel's Sleepless: Discovering the Power of the Night SelfYou can connect with Annabel on IG here and read more about her work here I write a lot about different philosophical salves for insomnia in First, We Make the Beast Beautiful---If you need to know a bit more about me… head to my "about" pageFor more such conversations subscribe to my Substack newsletter, it's where I interact the most!Get your copy of my book, This One Wild and Precious LifeLet's connect on Instagram and WeAre8 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well hello there, Weekend ;)   Hi 68 Lo 49. It's THE SUN!!! Oh JOY! Sun up - 7:09 AM, Sun down - 8:06 PM.   Strippers in the state of Washington have achieved their own Bill of Rights! Safer working conditions, yippee!   Check out my amateur soon-to-be-revamped, Voice Over website! I do silly things with my voice and its fun. Hire me. kevincheathamvo.com

 This week we start a four part series on PARENTING.Meagan and Jeff start a new series on parenting and dive into the neuroscience of how they raised their babies in part 1. Meagan shares the purpose behind the parenting choices that we have made as we raised t kids. Jeff gets emotional and stays emotional the whole time talking about his babies (that aren't babies anymore!).What choices did you make for parenting that worked best for you?We want to reiterate that this series is about the choices we have made and that we understand that life looks different for everyone. We share these choices with zero judgement and hope that you can feel confident in your choices but also in the choice to sometimes take tips from other places - just like we did (mostly Bluey!).We also hope to see you back even if you aren't parenting any kiddos - because where we go from here has a lot to do with who we are as people and what we have learned and are learning about life. Stay and join the conversation with us.Take a minute to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Thank you!Follow usInstagram: @schticklessEmail us with thoughts, comments, encouragement, or good vibes.schtickless@gmail.comArtwork by: @halfcaffdesignsMusic appears courtesy of Leo Goes Grr:Intro: Manhattan from the album Almost FictionOutro: Sunset, OK from the ep We'll Come Back for You

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Join Katherine & Jay as they welcomes beloved friends of the Hope Heals community, David Thomas and Sissy Goff in for a candid conversation on parenting. The best stuff comes from the hard stuff, but none of us want our kids to go through the hard stuff. What decisions are we making to stand in the way of our kids experiencing opportunities for resilience and growth in safe ways? This is a great conversation that you do not want to miss! David is the Director of Family Counseling and has been a part of the Daystar staff for the last 25 years. He guides Daystar as co-executive director, meets with clients for parent consults, provides assessments with new families and supervises the guys' staff. He is the author of ten books including the best-selling Wild Things: The Art of Nurturing Boys and Raising Emotionally Strong Boys: Tools Your Son can Build on for Life. He co-hosts the “Raising Boys & Girls” podcast and has become a sought-after speaker across the country. Sissy is the Executive Director of Daystar Counseling Ministries in Nashville, Tennessee, where she works alongside her counseling assistant/pet therapist, Lucy the Havanese. Since 1993, she has been helping girls and their parents find confidence in who they are and hope in who God is making them to be. Sissy is a sought-after speaker for parenting events across the country and is a frequent guest on media outlets including CNN, Good Morning America, Inside Edition, NBC Nightly News, and Christianity Today. She is the bestselling author of 13 books including her latest, The Worry-Free Parent: Finding the Confidence You Need So Your Kids Can, Too. -- “If we do not transform our pain, we will most assuredly transmit it.” - Richard Rohr, Things Hidden: Scripture as Spirituality ““Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid.” - Frederick Buechner, Beyond Words: Daily Readings in the ABC's of Faith “The deeper that sorrow carves into your being,the more joy you can contain.” - Khalil Gibran, “Oh Joy and Sorrow” ---- Want some hope in your inbox? ⁠⁠Sign up for our semi-monthly Hope Note⁠⁠ for a little dose of hope and encouragement along the way. Learn more about us here: ⁠⁠Hope Heals⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Hope Heals Camp⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Mend Coffee⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Find us on Instagram⁠

Join the Green Room!https://www.themagneticvoice.com/transform Virtual Speaking Mastery Coursehttps://www.themagneticvoice.com/vsm-future-offeringGet Your Complimentary Connection Callhttps://www.themagneticvoice.com/appointmentsLessons at The Magnetic Voicehttp://www.themagneticvoice.comShannon Kropf Creativehttp://www.shannonkcreative.com •This channel is made possible because of listeners just like you. If you would like to support the channel with your tax-deductible contribution on an ongoing basis or through a one-time gift, head over to ExperienceOfTheSoul.com.And if you enjoy this podcast, you can help spread the word by leaving a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, Stitcher, or the platform of your choice.The Magnetic Voice is copyright 2022, Monique McDonald. All Rights Reserved. Our theme music is composed by Dave Kropf and used with permission.The Experience of the Soul Podcast Channel is a production of 818 Studios.

Whether you enjoy the holidays or not, they can still be a source of expectation, stress, and pressure. Dr. Meyers identifies some of those challenging aspects and offers a few tips on successful navigation.

The Holiday Season usually will have moments and this year is no exception. Make space for Hot rhetoric with Mercury Retrograde in Sagittarius co present with Mars after December 22. Everyone has a soap box and a sword.Meanwhile the two Benefic oppose each other with Uranus along for a surprise, 9th and 20th respectively. A moment to meditate/visualize for Peace on Christmas Day with Venus trine Neptune. News Years features Venus in Gay Sagittarius squared by Saturn In cold water Pisces. The details are talk today. To see the charts I use in my weekly radio show go to: www.cardinalastrology.ca

Hey guys bad news I'm quitting podcasting and YouTube for a couple days not permanently I'm sick I just need to get better so I'm gonna take a break to get better as the weather is love you guys and miss you guys your friend your brother Bryin Dash

Week 3 of the series Embodied FaithLesson Text: James 1:1-18Re-watch this week's service here.

Joy Cho is the founder of the Oh Joy! design studio and lifestyle brand. She launched the studio in 2005 and has since designed hundreds of products and collections with brands like Target and Keds. Joy wrote a book about kids and confidence where she details her struggle to fit in and find confidence as a kid. Joy chats with Vanessa about the book and why she wrote it for parents and kids to read together. Listen in on their candid conversation about feeling guilt in motherhood, finding adult friendships, and being an entrepreneur. Joy lives with her husband and two daughters in Los Angeles, California. She is a second-degree black belt, an avid tennis player, and a fashion icon. Joy also happens to be the most followed person on Pinterest! We know her advice and wisdom on confidence will inspire you. Since this episode was first released in the fall of 2022, Joy has expanded her business coaching and is now taking on new clients.  Use code: MOMFORCE for 15% off your next Chatbooks order!  Follow Vanessa Follow Chatbooks The MomForce Podcast on TikTok  Follow Oh Joy!  Find Joy's book on confidence here Listen to more episodes of The MomForce Podcast

WWE Raw 5/22/23 full show review with JDfromNY. JDfromNY reviews WWE Monday Night Raw for Monday May 22nd, 2023 on Off The Script. Brock Lesnar and Cody Rhodes will be in the same building before Night Of Champions. OH JOY. Also, Imperium battles Matt Riddle, Sami Zayn, and Kevin Owens in a 6 man tag team match, and Trish Stratus signs a contract to make her match with Becky Lynch official for Night Of Champions. 

Erika Moen is a queer cartoonist based in Portland, Oregon.  With over two decades in the comics industry, she has co-created the sex positive series ‘Oh Joy Sex Toy' and the sex nd relationship book for teens ‘Let's Talk About it' with her husband Matthew Nolan.  Erika is a frequent guest on Dan Savage's beloved Savage Lovecast and is currently or king on her autobiographical graphic novel about mental health You can find Erika and her work at Patreon.com/erikamoen

December 11, 2022

Oh Joy - 12-14-22 - Pastor Mullings

Starting a business or launching a new product has never been easier. Getting people to buy your product, on the other hand, has never been harder. Every single day, more and more brands pump new products into the market. It is truly saturated, which is why very few startups make it longer than a couple of years before they have to close shop. However, not every new product is a fail. Some make a killing, and that is thanks to a few things: A good marketing strategy, a great product, the right expertise, and a whole lotta luck. To talk about this, I invited the brilliant minds behind The Product Boss, the amazing Minna Khounlo-Sithep and Jacqueline Snyder. Both first generation Americans and both entrepreneurs at heart, Minna and Jacqueline are two amazing women who came up with one genius idea: To start a company that helps other people take their product-based businesses to the next level! They created The Product Boss out of their own struggles of trying to reach product-based dreams and goals, but feeling lost in a world of service-based advice and strategy. If you own a product-based business, then you know exactly what struggles they mean. Listen in as Minna, Jacqueline, and I discuss everything you need to know to take your product-based business to the next level.    In This Episode: [00:00] Introduction [01:15] You can make anything out of nothing [09:30] Minna and Jacqueline share the difference they see between running a product-based business and running a service-based business [16:23] Do you know when to give it a shot? [21:18] How collaboration can lead to expansion in the world of product-based businesses [25:41] Minna and Jacqueline share their biggest challenges [33:24] Jacqueline and Minna discuss the mindset blocks they are dealing with [38:07] Minna and Jacqueline's secrets into tapping into their potential [47:40] Top tips for mompreneurs [52:05] Why the future is exciting for Minna and Jacqueline   Quotes: “During me launching over a thousand fashion brands for my clients, designing, developing, producing, and helping them from scratch, I had decided to start my own two [product] lines, one was an apparel company and one was an accessories company.” – Jacqueline Snyder “I always say that we're very lucky that we ended up having the same values, because we kind of landed upon this business.” –  Minna Khounlo-Sithep “Product business, in my opinion, is the loneliest. It requires a community around you, because it's really hard to get that encouragement to reinvest again and again and again.” – Minna Khounlo-Sithep “What got us here is going to be different than what gets us to a $10 million plus business.” – Jacqueline Snyder “You can always make more money, you can't make more time.” – Minna Khounlo-Sithep   Links & Resources: Get The Product Boss Ultimate Resource Guide: http://www.theproductboss.com/iheartmylife   Ready to Uplevel Your Life? Join here: https://www.iheartmylife.com/go Follow the I Heart My Life Show on Apple Podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/i-heart-my-life-show/id1569047758 Subscribe to the I Heart My Life Show on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/1Zw6fI37FrfVjZMXlMiZZ6   Connect with Emily: Emily Williams Website https://emilywilliams.com/ Emily on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/emilywilliams/   I Heart My Life Website https://www.iheartmylife.com/ I Heart My Life on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/iheartmylife/ I Heart My Life on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/iheartmylifenow I Heart My Life on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/i-heart-my-life/   Join the IHML community to receive exclusive announcements and tips. https://www.iheartmylife.com/newsletter   Email: info@iheartmylife.com   Connect with Minna Khounlo-Sithep and Jacqueline Snyder: Find them on Instagram Learn more about them and their work on their website Check out their podcast episode with Joy Cho of Oh Joy!

Joy Cho is the founder of the Oh Joy! design studio and lifestyle brand. She launched the studio in 2005 and has since designed hundreds of products and collections with brands like Target and Keds. Joy recently wrote a book about kids and confidence. The book details her struggle to fit in and find confidence as a kid. Joy chats with Vanessa about the book and why she wrote it for parents and kids to read together. Listen in on their candid conversation about feeling guilt in motherhood, finding adult friendships, and being an entrepreneur.  Joy has two daughters and lives in Los Angeles, California. She is a second-degree black belt, an avid tennis player, and a fashion icon. Joy also happens to be the most followed person on Pinterest! We know her advice and wisdom on confidence will inspire you.  Use code POD20 for 20% off. Happy Chatbooking!  Check out Oh Joy!  Follow Joy on Instagram and Pinterest Confidence in Kids

Jelani talks with Joy Cho, creative director, designer, author, Thai American, and mother.  Joy is the founder of Oh Joy! and has collaborated with brands like Target, Band-Aid, Petco, and so many more.  She's done 40 licensing partnerships to date, creating colorful, and incredibly designed products.  Joy also happens to hold the record for the most followers of any influencer on Pinterest at 15+ million.Here's the thing about Joy though: just like Jelani and many others, she's an introvert.  She doesn't recharge when there's a bunch of people around her, but rather in those quiet moments by herself.  The child of immigrants, this conversation gets into how Joy's learned to keep the good things she got from her parents while evolving to fit with her family today.Jelani and Joy talk about how the key to parenting might just be flexibility. Flexibility with how you think things are supposed to go and how they actually go. Flexibility with the different stages of your kids' lives.  And flexibility to balance work, home, life, and everything else.  Joy has this parenting thing figured out, and we're so excited to share this conversation with you.Learn more about Joy at her site, ​​ohjoy.com. Contact us by emailing us at listen@akidsco.com.Explore our collection of over 80 books made to empower, by visiting akidsco.com. 

Comedic storyteller Adrien Behn finds herself in a haunted cottage with her new boyfriend at the start of the pandemic. More on Lily Dale, NY.More on Catemaco, Mexico's town of warlocks.While we haven't figured out the identity of The Book yet, you can connect with Adrien here. And here's Emily Winter's book, ONE DAY SMARTER. 

Stage Musicals 1910-1939 Start Name Artist Album Year Comments Poor Butterfly Vic Hammett At The Wurlitzer Organ [Saga Society SOC 1037] 1967 3-10 Wurlitzer, Town Hall, Buckingham; ex-Metropole, Victoria 3:55 Peg O' My Heart Gus Farney Giant 5 Manual Wurlitzer [Warner Bros. WS 1409] 1961 5-24 Wurlitzer, Organ Loft, Salt Lake City, UT 7:15 They Didn't Believe Me Jesse Crawford The Song Is You [Decca DL 78861] 1959 10:46 Nanette Neil Jensen A British Debut [Crescendo Cassette CHLW 1000] Wurlitzer, New Victoria Centre, Howden-Le-Wear 13:36 You Made Me Love You Arnold Loxam The Four Seasons Of Blackpool [Grosvenor CD] 1991 3-14 Wurlitzer, Tower Ballroom, Blackpool 16:34 Dardanella Nicholas Martin Hey Look Me Over [Grosvenor 1134] 1983 3-19 Wurlitzer, Turner's Musical Merry-Go-Round, Wooton, Northants 20:12 Zigeuner; I'll See You Again Emil Martin Golden Age Of Musicals Vol. 1 [Pipin' Records LP] 4-20 Wurlitzer, Arden Pizza and Pipes, Sacramento, CA; ex-Strand Theatre, Madison, WI and Tiffin Theatre, Chicago, IL 24:01 It All Depends On You Tiny James Held Over at the Orpheum [Doric DO 1405] 1973 4-22 Robert Morton, Orpheum Theatre, San Francisco, CA 27:15 Love Me Or Leave Me Chris Gorsuch Something's Gotta Give 3-21 Grande Barton, Granada Theatre, Kansas City, KS 31:18 All Alone Ken Wright Standard Program Library S-176 4-14 Kilgen, WKY Studios, Oklahoma City, OK 34:36 Sometimes I'm Happy Jim Melander Plays The Wurlitzer Pipe Organ in The Echoing Antique Shop [Dulcet ME-6001] 1960 2-9 Wurlitzer, James Gaines' Antiques, Decorators' Row, Los Angeles 37:00 Oh Gee! Oh Joy! Donna Parker Powerhouse [DPP 101-A] 1985 4-42 Wurlitzer, Paramount Music Palace, Indianapolis, IN 39:47 My Dearest Dear Hubert Selby I Love To Hear You Singing [Stetone STN 001] 1977 3-8 Wurlitzer, Town Hall, Burton-on-Trent (installed 1972); ex-Cameo Theatre, Cleveland, OH (1925 as a 2-8); then to Forum/ABC Cinema, Wythenshaw, Manchester (1934) 43:35 The Lambeth Walk Quentin Maclean Quentin Maclean [Laurentide CTM 6014] 4-20 Wurlitzer, Roy Lawson Residence, Montreal, Quebec, Canada; 4-11 State Theatre, Madison, WI, then Fred Hermes Residence, then Replica Records. Then went to Pizza and Pipes, Sacramento, CA and is currently the core of the 4-24, Trinity Presby, SD, CA 46:35 The Most Beautiful Girl In The World George Wright Home Federal Savings Program 3-28 Wurlitzer, South Pasadena Studio 49:27 But Not For Me David Reese Demo: Bella Roma Pizza, Martinez, CA 1973-10-07 1973 3-18 Wurlitzer Hybrid, Bella Roma Pizza, Martinez, CA; recorded by Tim Kirkpatrick 52:37 At Long Last Love Lyn Larsen Paradise [Musical Contrasts MCI-207] 1994 5-80 Wurlitzer, Sanfilippo Residence, Barrington, IL 58:01 All The Things You Are John Atwell, Bill Schumacher Private 2011 Bill Schumacher, piano; John Atwell, Allen Lyn Larsen Signature; Recorded at Jim Clinch residence November 11, 2011 62:11 What Goes Up Must Come Down Everett Nourse Killinger unreleased 4-14 Robert Morton, Warnors Theatre, Fresno, CA; recorded by Frank Killinger for LP but never released; mastered by Dick Clay

Same Shit Different Smell S02 29 Well we have two fine upstanding (One a little short in stature but both short on marbles) candidates for our Next Prime Minister.. Oh Joy. Av and Steve try to find the humour in all this nonsense and much more. Available on apple podcasts, Spotify, google you could even watch them on youtube. Just search “Talking 2 Our Soles” on your socials. Alternatively. Click below and never miss a show againhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3a7uHGB6NYIdn-HCCr6alQ?sub_confirmation=1 Follow Av Singh and Steve Henn on Twitter, Youtube and facebook. Search their names Use the hashtags #magichenn #our2soles #singhwhenyourwinning - Follow our pages comment and subscribe. Links are always in the comments.

73. Sometimes we must face a challenge to unlock a new level of joy. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/soulciallyresponsible/message

Joy Cho is the founder and Creative Director of Oh Joy!, a graphic design studio, lifestyle brand, and design company that has collaborated with top brands and organizations from Target to Band-Aid – even The White House.  Joy is a master of many trades, having also worked as a graphic designer, blogger, mama of two, consultant for numerous businesses, and having authored six books (with a seventh on the way). She was named one of Time's 30 Most Influential People on the Internet two years running, and she holds the most popular account on Pinterest with over 15 million followers (something she's in the Guinness Book of World Records for, by the way). She joins us to discuss her unusual path to profit. It's an amazing reminder that no one goes on the same journey as anyone else. Whatever you're doing and wherever you are in life, your path doesn't necessarily have to look like anyone else's. There's a lot to learn from her account of just how her brand took off and, then, leveled up to the huge success story that they are today. We also talk about what it's like to be the face of your business when you're an introvert. Joy believes it's something you can learn, and gives advice for anyone who wants to step into the limelight to sell their products but lacks the confidence to do it. She believes the personal connection you can offer to your company can be really meaningful for your customers, so it's definitely advice worth taking. This is a wide ranging conversation, where we touch on everything from hiring and scaling your business to the point that feels comfortable to you, how Joy balances work with her family life, and the time Michelle Obama invited Joy to design the annual White House Easter Egg Roll. This episode is a total joy, so listen now! Brought to you by the https://www.theproductboss.com/shop1in5?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=shop_1_in_5_pledge&utm_content=august_2_podcast (Shop 1 in 5™ Pledge)! Commit to making 1 in 5 of your purchases from a small business, whether online or offline. The https://www.theproductboss.com/shop1in5?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=shop_1_in_5_pledge&utm_content=august_2_podcast (Shop 1 in 5™ Pledge) is a way to make an impact together when (and where) it matters most. Join us and take the pledge today! Resources: https://ohjoy.com (Visit the Oh Joy! website) https://www.instagram.com/ohjoy/ (Follow Joy on Instagram) Product Biz Owners at $250k+ yearly revenue: Are you a product business owner that has built your business to a multi-6 figure to multi-million dollar business? If so, https://theproductbossmastermind.com/new (The Product Boss Mastermind) has limited spots available open for consideration to applicants $250k and above, https://theproductbossmastermind.com?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=tpb_mastermind&utm_content=podcast (apply here). Consistent content is key to getting more people to see and buy your products. If you want to create great content but you don't know what to say, or you feel too busy, or you just don't want to be the face of your brand, no worries – because we've got you covered with a year's worth of consistent content that's sure to resonate with your audience! If you want to see how easy this can be, visit https://ayearofcontent.com/join-now1?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=a_year_of_content&utm_content=podcast (A Year of Content). Check out and shop from hundreds of small businesses from the https://shop1in5.com/shop-the-directory/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=small_biz_shopping_directory&utm_content=nov_2021_podcast (Small Business Shopping Directory). It's the go-to directory to discover, support, and shop small businesses all in one place. Connect: Website: https://www.theproductboss.com/ (theproductboss.com) Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theproductboss/...

Every time we stick our noses into a conflict anywhere and at any time in the world or history, we cause HORRIBLE unintended consequences without exception.  Even the so-called Good War, WWII left behind world communism and another 100 million dead between Stalin and Mao.  Then we intervened in the Middle East where we don't know a thing about the history or culture, and got 9/11, so why not just go right on doing it like insane little hamsters on the wheel of the Political Class?Listen and learn!

Before we dive head first into this new year I wanted to upload the episode I have been trying to get to guys before surgery. Now that I am up and running here is the lost episode that I had some trouble with but promised to put out. In this episode I talk about my year recap for myself and the podcast. I also discuss the changes I want to make and I had plenty of announcements for you for what I had planned for this year. >>Subscribe to Grown Up Podcast and Follow me Twitter-@FamousD_95Instagram-@famousdee_95, @thegrownuppodcastFacebook page- Grown Up podcastYoutube-Grown Up with DeeWebsite-https://derricholland.wixsite.com/grownuppodcastSupport this show http://supporter.acast.com/grown-up-dholland. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Here we are again playing a carol on a toy keyboard. First, it was Jingle Bell Rock at Sam's Club. Today, it's Santa Claus is Coming to Town. Merry Christmas!

"Look No Further" - Luke 2:21-38 - Simeon & Anna Week 4 of our Advent series - Oh Joy! Join us as we take a few weeks to examine the joy that only comes from Jesus. New with us? We'd love to meet you! Click here (inglewoodpc.org/new-to-ipc) -- and we'll make a gift to the community on your behalf (details in the email we'll send your way). For more about living with Jesus in the everyday, see: inglewoodpc.org/everyday-life-with-jesus For ways to financially partner with the ministries of IPC, see inglewoodpc.org/give

Speaker or Performer: Norman Rushing Scripture Passage(s): 1 John 1 Date of Delivery: October 31, 2021

It appears that the commercials aren't going anywhere for a while so OH JOY to that! This is the promised Alex & Rita go to the bone zone episode and Jessica and I have PLENTY to say about that! Jessica Alsman from the The Bob & Tom Show is the Classmate for The Heights. The […]

Greg Mohr shares the not-so-secret strength the church needs to recover.

In this ✨Special✨episode of TLS, the boys talk about cancel culture and double standards (sprung forth by certain recent YouTube news) which inspires Zac to go on a rant for a while. Some good points get made, but mostly this podcast is a therapy session where Walter and Zac express their frustration and bitterness at the state of the culture and its unfairness. Oh Joy!

In today's interview with Joy Cho of Oh Joy! we discuss her ways of parenting and her ways of being the designer of her life and her time. She talks about raising 2 Asian American daughters and creating a team environment that has allowed her business to thrive for 13 years!

Sorry for delay y'all, but we're here bringing some tips on how to survive the holidays with our not so perfect families! Don't lose your sanity over the turkey this year! The hot topics are as wild as TI checking for hymens and as for the WTF, braces yourselves; Adasha is getting wild on us! Tune in!! --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thepersonalspacepodcast1/support

Welcome to episode 55 of The Blogger Genius Podcast. Today my guest is Nicole Ketchum, the designer behind the acrylic chandelier craze.  In this episode we talk about how to design and manufacture a product in China. We discuss what it takes to get the word out about your new product, especially one in a brand new category, what common mistakes entrepreneurs make when designing a physical product, what it's like to have to take out a loan to fund your inventory and so much more. If you've ever dreamt of building and designing your own product, this is the episode for you!   Resources: MiloTree Chandelier by NK Oh Joy Amy Atlas Warby Parker Away Luggage Everlane Planoly Glowforge AltSummit Transcript: How to Design and Manufacture a Product with Nicole Ketchum Host 0:03 Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast, brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Build your Shopify sales with MiloTree Jillian Leslie 0:11 Hi, welcome back to The Blogger Genius Podcast. The response to our new Shopify popup has been terrific. If you have a Shopify store, definitely go try it. Try our popup on your blog to get people to shop on your store. If you have a friend and know somebody who has a Shopify store who could benefit from it, please tell them about it. It's all part of your subscription and it takes, gosh, less than a minute to set up. All you do is just put your Shopify URL into the box and the popup will have your most recent products show up on it. And as you know, MiloTree is the easiest way to grow your social media followers, your email list. Head to MiloTree.com, sign up and get your first 30 days free. Today, I am interviewing Nicole Ketchum. And she is one of the first people I've interviewed who has built a physical good, a real product that she sells. She sells these beautiful chandeliers, you'll hear all about it. She is incredibly honest with her journey. If you are thinking of creating a physical good, you definitely want to listen to this. And even if you're not, I think her story is incredibly interesting and insightful. So without further ado, here is Nicole Ketchum. Nicole, welcome to the show. Nicole Ketchum 1:47 Thank you for letting me be here. Jillian Leslie 1:48 Oh, wow. So we met because you reached out to me about coaching probably a year ago. Nicole Ketchum 1:57 Yes, yes. And it was a great call. You helped me in so many ways. Jillian Leslie 2:02 Oh, I'm so glad. I'm so glad. And I think it's really cool because you are one of the first people that I am talking to on the podcast about creating a physical product. And so can you tell like what your product is and and how you got started? And, you know, I'm sure my audience will go and check it out. Creating and selling a physical product Nicole Ketchum 2:24 Yes. So I design acrylic chandeliers. That's the medium I currently work in. And I had the idea in late 2011 and spent two years researching the idea that I had before pulling the trigger. I made a prototype in late 2013 and threw together a website and crossed my fingers and launched, and four years later, here I am. Jillian Leslie 2:58 Okay, first of all, what is an acrylic chandelier? Nicole Ketchum 3:02 So basically, we created a design where two pieces get cut by a laser cutter and then there are slots on each of the pieces of the chandelier. And you take the two pieces and you slap them together. They have holes at the top where you put two S hooks and you can hang it anywhere. And you can hang it with chandelier chains that you can get at like Home Depot or Lowes. Or even fishing wire. They're very lightweight, which I've said a lot but actually people still ask me quite frequently, and they're only three pounds. Jillian Leslie 3:42 Okay. And they don't light. They're decorative. Nicole Ketchum 3:46 They're decorative and it's a new concept. I apparently designed a product that didn't exist. Jillian Leslie 3:52 Okay. Nicole Ketchum 3:54 So that's very exciting but it's also been a learning curve. And they're perfect because acrylic is basically plastic, and it can go inside or outside. It can go below 20 degrees. It can be in hot weather. You can put it up anywhere that you can hang. They're perfect for weddings and parties. Jillian Leslie 4:15 Exactly. That was my next question, which is, what is the use case? Where do people use them? Nicole Ketchum 4:20 People use them for parties, events, weddings. I use them in my child's play room. They can go over a bathtub, they can go over a bed or a nursery. Jillian Leslie 4:36 I was gonna say I'd like to put one in my daughter's room. Nicole Ketchum 4:39 Yes, I have one hanging over my daughter's bed. Jillian Leslie 4:43 Okay. And your background though, is in product design. Right? Nicole Ketchum 4:48 No, actually I went to school a long time ago for English and then I worked in marketing and graphic design. Jillian Leslie 4:54 Graphic design, okay. Nicole Ketchum 4:55 Yeah, for a very long time. But it was more like corporate design. So my fantasies were I wanted to design wallpaper and home goods. And in reality, I was designing annual reports. But I eventually started to make that leap on my own and I eventually transitioned into surface design and I was designing patterns for stores. And it still didn't feel like it was enough for me. And I interviewed for Michaels Corporate a long time ago in 2011, when my husband and I had lost our jobs from the fallout from 2008. And they had challenged me. It was between myself and another designer come up with something for Halloween that's modern and that people can use. And for myself, I've always wanted to have a really fun chandelier for Halloween that I could just throw over a table. I always lived in apartments when I was younger, you know, there's no outlets and places. So that was the idea I had and I was going to do a foam core. And my husband who is a designer as well, he said, "Why don't you do acrylic?" So I designed a raven and moon chandelier for Michaels Corporate along with competing the patterns that they could use for journals. And I presented it to them and I believe they must have been on the cusp of transitioning from where they were to where they are now, and they said I was too modern. I thought that was really interesting because I know I would fit now. Jillian Leslie 6:35 Yes! Nicole Ketchum 6:36 Yeah. But back then, I thought it was still a great idea and I couldn't get it out of my head. Designing a product in AutoCAD So I spent every weekend just researching, talking to people, going to stores and eventually harassed my husband into going to his office on weekends and working in AutoCAD to come up with the two lines that I have currently, which is the octopus and the fancy. Jillian Leslie 7:04 Okay. And what is AutoCAD just for the people who don't know. Nicole Ketchum 7:07 it is a computer-based software that allows you to design in 3D. And that is not my foray. I was able to sketch the idea but he took it and made it real. And then I think we must have done that for six months straight and eventually pulled the trigger and ordered a prototype through a company that I found on the internet. Then we got to see in real-time how that worked. Jillian Leslie 7:38 Okay. And was this a company in China? Was it here in the United States? Nicole Ketchum 7:42 It's in Las Vegas. They're such a great company. I worked with them when we made our Disney chandeliers. So then we realized that we had a product that actually worked and so I ordered two prototypes -- one for the octopus and one for the fancy. Then I basically, when I totally believed this and I push it all the time, it's fake it till you make it. Jillian Leslie 8:06 I love that. Nicole Ketchum 8:07 I changed the colors in Photoshop and pretended that I had a full catalog. Jillian Leslie 8:11 I love it. Love it. Love it. Nicole Ketchum 8:14 I didn't tell anybody. But I was like, whatever, what's going to happen? And nobody ever found out and people started ordering. I mean, of course, I changed the colors to reflect whatever the Las Vegas company had and then I would get an order and then I would place the order with them. And it was both time consuming and very expensive, but it was perfect for me to just start to see who my customer base was, who was ordering my product and what they were using it for. And that was really fascinating. Jillian Leslie 8:48 So what was your assumption going in? And then what did you start to learn based on what your customers were ordering? Nicole Ketchum 8:57 My assumption was that they were going to be like me, where they were just going to use it for maybe a holiday and it took on a life of its own. Getting your first order of a product you design My very first order was from Nordstrom for a party and they used it on the table. They didn't even hang it. And I was shocked and delighted, and I even asked them. They said that they were just perfect centerpieces. I was like "Oh, okay." It's not what I designed it for, but that's awesome. And then I noticed that party stylists, event planners, they got it immediately. I didn't have to explain to them at all. And I did have to explain to like the average person at home that was just looking at home decor. So I noticed there was just that interesting correlation and also a disconnect happening between where I thought they were going and where they were actually going. Jillian Leslie 9:55 Right. So it seems like more sophisticated designer-y people got it. Nicole Ketchum 10:00 Yes. Jillian Leslie 10:00 And moms might have needed more education. Is that true? Nicole Ketchum 10:04 Yes. Because they don't have lights. There is that learning curve. "What do you mean they don't have lights?" "Well, what do you do with it?" Whereas the party stylists and event planners were like, "Oh, yeah, I'm just gonna put this over a dessert table. Jillian Leslie 10:19 Okay. That's very interesting. So what is the price point right now, if I were to buy one? Nicole Ketchum 10:25 The price point for the octopus is $59.99. And the fancy is $69.99. And I have a limited edition gold that is new and one of a kind, and that is $89.99. Jillian Leslie 10:41 Got it. Now tell me, I remember this from our conversation. Somebody... it was Disney. Somebody like got it and was like, "We want to order this." Nicole Ketchum 10:50 Yes. I basically had my coaching call with you and the very next day, I got an email from Disney. I kid you not. It was insane and so exciting. And they found me on Pinterest. Yes. And I was like, "Score! I'm doing it right." And they asked me to make 21 custom chandeliers for a new store that was opening up for visual merchandising. And three different sizes. So it was imperative that I still had that Las Vegas connection. We made a 12 by 16, a 24 by 20, and a 40 by 60, which is huge. And 12 different colors. Jillian Leslie 11:37 Oh my god, okay. Nicole Ketchum 11:38 Yes. So that was awesome. And they had a very, very, very tight deadline. I totally met that deadline. Overextended myself, over delivered, and under charged them. And they were incredibly happy when I flew down in March to see them. So they ordered at the end of December, almost mid-December, and February 1 is when they needed it. Jillian Leslie 12:07 Oh, wow. Wow! But wait, wasn't there somebody else who had discovered them too? Maybe it was Nordstrom. I don't remember. Where you were like, "Ooh," like early traction? Nicole Ketchum 12:20 Yes. I've actually had a lot of different celebrities use them. Jillian Leslie 12:23 Okay, maybe that's what it is. Okay. Nicole Ketchum 12:25 Yeah, early traction would have been Nordstrom and then right after that Michael Buble's sister used them for a book party that she had written some children's books and bought a whole bunch. And then I got picked up by the Associated Press and then I went nationwide. And then I started getting orders from there and more traction. Outsourcing production to China -- how to do it? Jillian Leslie 12:47 Okay. So you were looking at then factories or outsourcing in China, that kind of thing? Nicole Ketchum 12:55 Yes. When I had spoken to you, I was still stuck on kind of a hump of how do I do my next inventory run. My first inventory run had been successful but the company then came back to me, which actually happens a lot, you can't order this amount. You have to order thousands And that's how they get you. And so I had to take a step back. And after Disney, I decided to go on Alibaba. com and just tell them exactly what I need as an RFP, and then have people just kind of send me their company information. Jillian Leslie 13:39 What's an RFP? Nicole Ketchum 13:41 A request for proposal. Jillian Leslie 13:43 Got it. So that means you're soliciting companies to say hey, "This is what I want to make. Can you do this? You know, a factory in China, come and tell me how much this would cost." Nicole Ketchum 13:55 Yes. Now, I want to preface that with when you have a product or you have proprietary information, and I have all my designs registered with the US government, I can't patent anything because the slot technology is not new. So I had to have them sign NDAs so that I could send them my CAD files that my husband had designed because that is your proprietary information and you should never give that out willingly. So they had approved that they knew what I was speaking about, what kind of product I needed beforehand. So there was a lot of back and forth of here's some pictures of my product and what have you done. And I eventually, surprisingly, to my delight, found the largest acrylic supplier in all of China who is my manufacturer. Jillian Leslie 14:48 Wow. And then did you have to place one of these gigantic orders? Nicole Ketchum 14:54 I did not. My first run back in 2014 was for 350 chandeliers. And this new company let me just place an order for 450, which maybe doesn't sound a lot to the average user. "Okay, you only jumped 100." But as far as money goes, it was a difference of $3600 to $8500. Plus shipping. Jillian Leslie 15:21 Wow. Were you able to order them in different colors like for your inventory? Nicole Ketchum 15:25 Well, that's where they get you too. If I could, I would have done a ton of colors. Because people ask me all the time, "How come you don't have other colors and another product?" but that's what I was given. So I had to order my bestseller, which is white, and a new one which I just had a gut instinct would do well based on I used to have a mirror chandelier that sold out super quick. So I ordered a gold. And that was $12,000. How to protect yourself from knock-offs in China? Jillian Leslie 15:56 Wow, wow, wow. And is there... because I've heard this, you come up with something and then somebody in China sees it and knocks it off. Do you have that concern or kind of how have you protected yourself? Nicole Ketchum 16:13 You know, initially I did, but... not to say that our files are complicated, but they are somewhat. And it's interesting to note as a side note, when we first designed the product, it was great but we did have some breakage. And my husband and I could not figure it out. And his brother is an engineer. And one night, he was looking at our chandelier and he was like, "All these points are pointed and they need to be curved." And we were like, "What?" And so that whole sort of cyclical thing with our design, I'm not afraid of China knocking me off because it's kind of intricate. And I say, if you want to, great, you know, I have the paper trail. You know, I'm not going to worry about it anymore. I did initially and I'm just really not going to be worried about it anymore. How to market your product Jillian Leslie 17:06 I love that. I love that. Okay, so let's talk about how you have gotten your product out there. So you build this product, by the way, you did something interesting, which is you built this on a hunch. Now, again, you seem to manage your downside risk, meaning you didn't order 5,000 of these to start and you started to see how people were using them so that it could inform you, or what colors people were interested in. So I love that strategy that you were kind of going piece by piece and I love that you change the colors on your website to see what people wanted without going out and, you know, buying all this inventory. Nicole Ketchum 17:46 Right. That's a mistake a lot of people make. Jillian Leslie 17:49 Two things that I have to give you props for. One is that you seem humble enough to know that you don't know all the answers. Like that you're working with your customers to figure out what they want rather than, "Oh, I know what they want." And two, that you are scrappy. Nicole Ketchum 18:15 Yes, I am. Jillian Leslie 18:16 Because when we talked and you were in that conundrum of, "What do I do? My company that I'm working with wants me to place this huge order, and that's a lot of money. And I don't want to take on that risk." And you solved it. Nicole Ketchum 18:33 Yeah, exactly. I was almost mad and so I took that anger. And I was like, you're not going to stop me. But they did stop me for a while, I did cry for a little while. And then I just got mad. And my husband and I are like, how are we going to pay for this, and we took out a home equity loan to pay for this run. But this run versus 25,000+ is more manageable over 30 years. I can do this, I can pay it off. And that's okay. That's debt that's manageable. And so yeah, I wasn't going to let them stop me. Jillian Leslie 19:11 I love that. Scrappy. Okay. So how did you start to get the message out that you made this product? You know, whether it'd be Instagram, email, what was your strategy? And what is your strategy? Nicole Ketchum 19:26 Well, initially, my strategy was I basically sent it to every blog I could possibly find back in 2014. And I got free press from Amy Atlas and Oh Joy pinned my octopus chandelier and it went crazy viral. Jillian Leslie 19:45 So wait, so you sent them a chandelier? Nicole Ketchum 19:48 I didn't send them a physical product, this is what's so awesome. I just sent them my website and I was like, This is new, you've never seen anything like this. If it interests you, could you write about it? Jillian Leslie 20:01 Good for you. Nicole Ketchum 20:02 I know. I don't think I could get away with that now. Jillian Leslie 20:05 Why? Nicole Ketchum 20:06 I think things have changed in four years. People are demanding product plus payment. And four years ago, they were like, "Sure." Jillian Leslie 20:14 Right. Content. It was like cool. Nicole Ketchum 20:18 Just to kind of like, yeah. And it was cool and I knew that, if anything, it's different and no one's seen it before so that had it going for it. So that's how it happened. It was just a lot of free press. And then I hit a wall after a couple years. People wanted a lot of product and a lot of money. But initially, that's how it got me started and that's how my customers heard of me. Jillian Leslie 20:46 Okay. And now then, how did you... again, this is very true to social media to what happens, which is trends come and go. You know, people see it, they love it. But then all of a sudden, that strategy doesn't work anymore. So then what did you do? Nicole Ketchum 21:03 I had a business mentor who I was stressing because I'm sure just like a lot of people, they look at Shark Tank and think that, "Oh, I'm not making a million dollars. I'm not successful." And I was stressing out bad and he was like, "Nicole, it's better to build as slow as you can and as thorough as you can versus run hot and disappear." Yeah, so I took it to heart and I decided to slow down. I had paid off my whole debt for my first run. It was going slow, but I was like, nobody knows that I'm here because press had died down like you had said, so I started building my Instagram out and it's been very slow. Building my Pinterest out. I was on Facebook for a while. I've now gotten off Facebook and just focusing on Pinterest and Instagram. And now I'm trying to build my email list. And really what I did about two years ago is I reached out to party stylists and bloggers and I said, "Here, I'm going to send you some free product. Could you just test it out and use it and maybe take a picture or two?" and it's been working great. Jillian Leslie 22:19 Really? Okay. Okay. Nicole Ketchum 22:22 And now, some of them are my friends and they really tell me what they think about them. And pretty much everyone, and I'm not tooting my own horn, I'm just saying that they love it. And they've been telling me what colors they wanted and how they were using it. And then they're giving me the photography, which as you know, photography is a lot of money. So I've been saving tons of money off of that and that's how I've been doing it. It's been super slow. But I finally sold out of the best seller and the mirrored one sold out super quick. And I started getting orders from like Sugarfina and other companies like that, and I couldn't fulfill the orders. And that's when I hit the wall and then talk to you and then decided to take out my loan and find another company. If I was on Shark Tank, they would be like, "See you later because you're growing too slow at four years," but I feel like I'm finally gaining some important traction and Disney has been able to kind of give me that tailwind that I need to keep going basically. They validated me. And, you know, I'll go to my grave just being so happy about that. Thinking about the mom market to get your product out there Jillian Leslie 23:41 That's so great. Have you thought about the mom market, reaching out to mom influencers? Nicole Ketchum 23:51 Yes. I have done that in the past and I've even run contests. And I've been in, I don't know, 5 or 10 national magazines and done contests as well. And that's worked okay. But just so people know, just because you get press in a magazine doesn't equal sales. In fact, it's a misnomer and it usually doesn't equal sales. Unless you're in Oprah. And that's not happening as much anymore. Jillian Leslie 24:24 Right. And also then what you want is to be in a magazine and have them link to you in their digital form so that you can get some SEO juice. Nicole Ketchum 24:34 Yes, I recently linked with Life & Style magazine and J-14 magazine and did a contest for one of my octopuses. And it was the largest contest they ever had. There was 24,000 entries for this and they wouldn't share any of the information with me. So, yeah. So that was a good learning experience. A, it showed me people are probably interested in free product but also that there was interest in my product. And B, I have to figure out at some point down the road, more of a marketing budget for that sort of thing. And also taking out the HELOC loan last year for the inventory, we decided to jump off the cliff. And my husband and I were like, we're just going for it, guns blazing. We're going to try everything. And we hired a company that is like a Shark Tank company, so they are going to be working with me to kind of shrink my chandeliers, repackage them, approach buyers, and also kind of help me get into that mom market that seems to be pretty hard for me to get into. Jillian Leslie 25:50 Got it. Now what about though trying to get into Michaels or trying to get into boutiques? Nicole Ketchum 25:59 Yes. In its current form, they're 24 by 20, and the box is huge and it's not made for retail. I was recently on a website called Fair and basically,it's trying to be a middleman and knock out trade shows. So buyers would go in, look, buy your product and then test it out in their stores. And I was getting a lot of buyers. But they were saying, "Well, how do we put this in the stores?" And I was like, "Exactly." Jillian Leslie 26:35 What do you mean? You mean to put it on the shelf it's too big? Nicole Ketchum 26:39 Yeah, right. Jillian Leslie 26:40 The actual box is too big? Nicole Ketchum 26:43 Yes. If they wanted to use it for visual merchandising, that's cool and that's fine. They should buy it at a full price and not wholesale. So that told me that my direction, I stopped selling on there and I pivoted with this company. And they're going to shrink it to down to like, I think we're going to shrink it down to like 12 by 16 or maybe even smaller. So that it won't have the giant glorious impact it has now, but those are mainly used by party stylists and wedding planners. So the littler ones will be good for the little girls, teenagers, college students, moms. And I want to be able to have them packaged so they can slide right into the stores. And yes, we have a whole target market that we're looking at. Michaels. Target. Hasbro. Hasbro is actually in Rhode Island and my goal is to get a face-to-face meeting with them and talk about designing some princess chandeliers for them. Jillian Leslie 27:53 Oh, my god. Yes. Yes. And I feel like also somehow with Disney and all of their, you know, all that they do in terms of merchandising. Nicole Ketchum 28:02 I know. I recently reached out to my contact there and we left on perfect terms. They were very happy with me. But he also had let me know when they were there that they work at a crazy cycle. They used to work at 90 to 120 days and now they're working 30 days for a project and he can't even see straight. So he never got back to me and I don't want to bother him right now because I don't want to ruin that relationship. So I'm thinking when I rebrand and repackage because I'll be changing the name of my company too. Jillian Leslie 28:38 From what to what? Do you know? Nicole Ketchum 28:40 Yes. I just talked to the company today. So Chandelier by NK doesn't work for me because it has my initials and I want to move past just designing chandeliers. And it was hard for some people even in my Instagram like to look at it and get what it was. Not my pictures but just my handle. So we decided on Hey Girl Decor. Jillian Leslie 29:08 I like that. Nicole Ketchum 29:11 And I haven't come up with a tagline yet. Something like "modern and colorful" or something. That series or something like that. I have a trademark attorney looking now. There are several companies with the 'Hey Girl' name, but they are like tea, jewelry, a nonprofit. So nothing in the sphere I'm in. Jillian Leslie 29:30 Got it. And is that your vision? Is your vision to build out new products? Are you working on new products? In your mind are you designing them? Like, what are you thinking? Nicole Ketchum 29:42 Yes, I designed a heart chandelier. Well, it's basically just a hanging heart that slots in two. I wouldn't really call it a chandelier. And I've been dying to get that out and I've had some people buy it just on the side. And they love it. And that's the other thing that I want to impart to anyone that takes a company and is making a product. Sometimes I'll see people and they're cranking out a product, A, I don't know how they're doing that because that costs a lot of money. They must have like a slush fund or something. But in reality, I've had to take a huge step back based on, you know, monetary budget. And so I'm hoping that I can get the heart out in the next year. And yeah, I have a ton of ideas that I've had to basically shelf because I just can't do them, I can't afford to do them right now. Jillian Leslie 30:39 So what is your advice to somebody who says, "I have this great idea for a product" and they see companies like Warby Parker or, you know, these direct to consumer brands that have, you know, some sort of interesting story behind them like Away luggage. Or just even these like, I just bought a bra from a company, I forgot even the name but it's like, you know, designed by women and, you know, selling them. Everlane, those kinds of things. Like you've got this vision. And what is your advice to those people? Nicole Ketchum 31:16 I would say, go for it. And make sure that you love your product, know your product, know where your product fits, and who your potential market is. And then just go for it. Jillian Leslie 31:32 Really? Nicole Ketchum 31:34 And don't worry, just like I've had to go slower than I wanted and I'm an impatient type A person, I'd say slower is better. The tortoise does win the, you know. Jillian Leslie 31:47 Win at the end, yes. Win the race. Nicole Ketchum 31:48 Win at the end. Give yourself that grace to realize that it's not a straight arrow shot that just when you think you've climbed the hill, you are back down that hill. But don't give up. And if you hear any of those stories of the two guys that built Warby Parker or the Away luggage, they also struggled and had to raise funds and didn't know if they were going to be able to pay everybody. And then they hit their hump and they got over it. And so I would say just get that in your mind that not that it's going to be hard or easy. Just that you have to be focused. Jillian Leslie 32:32 Right. And you have to, just what you said, love your product because it's not... It can't be about the goal. Or it can't be about like, you know, making this huge. successful company. Nicole Ketchum 32:46 Correct. Jillian Leslie 32:46 It's the long slog. Nicole Ketchum 32:49 Yes. That's perfect, Jillian. That's so perfect. Yeah, it is a long slog. And you have to love it because there's been times that I wanted to give up but it wouldn't let me basically. Jillian Leslie 33:02 That's so interesting. Now, do you sell on Instagram? Nicole Ketchum 33:09 I am working with, well, let's see. I lay out my Instagram on Planoly. It looks like Planoly has a way that I can link my shop. But because I'm not on Facebook, I'm actually kind of punished for that and I can't put my prices on there. Jillian Leslie 33:24 On to your Instagram? Nicole Ketchum 33:26 Yeah. Squarespace is my website provide and they'll work with, you know, and Facebook owns Instagram. So there's all that. But yeah, that's what I would like to do. Some people, I do get customers from Instagram. But mainly my customers are either finding me online or buying through. I just got on Wayfair so they're buying through Wayfair or Houzz or AHAlife. And that's how I'm selling too. Selling your product on Amazon Jillian Leslie 33:57 And do you sell on Amazon? Nicole Ketchum 33:59 That is what my company that I just hired is going to be doing next for me. I tried to do it on my own and what ended up happening is some of my vendors threw my stuff up there without asking me. And then when I went to approach Amazon about selling, they're like, "Well, you're already on there and who are you?" And they're just giving me the worst time. So I'm having my company represent me to go forward getting me on there. Jillian Leslie 34:27 Got it. And have you ever explored Etsy? Exploring Etsy as a selling platform Nicole Ketchum 34:33 That's so funny. Yeah, my brother-in-law even worked for Etsy when I was having trouble. They were absolutely horrible to me. Jillian Leslie 34:41 Why? Nicole Ketchum 34:43 I went on there and they were like, "Well, you're not handmade." And I said I understand that. Then they had the wholesale, the Etsy wholesale, and I approached them for that. And they said, "Sure, send me all of your proprietary information, plus all of your manufacturing." And I was like, "Well, I can send you everything from my manufacturer." Like documents, logs, pictures, you know, everything that's proving that they are there, they are watching the workers. There's nothing illegal, or, you know, like a sweatshop about it. And that wasn't good enough for them. They wanted my CAD files. And I said absolutely not, and they wouldn't let me on. Jillian Leslie 35:25 That's so interesting. But now though, I feel like Etsy will let people with goods from China, for example, sell that it's no longer as handmade as it used to be. Nicole Ketchum 35:37 Oh, I agree. I thought that that was quite ironic and troubling to me that there were tons of China knockoffs and other things on there and they were giving me the hardest time and my brother in law worked for Etsy corporate. Wow. Okay. And they told me to never asked them again. Seriously, because I was gonna say, go back to them. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, maybe, maybe I can. But I got an email like a year ago. And they're like, you better not even think about asking us to get on and I was like, are you harassing me? Yeah, I don't know what happened. But Etsy wholesale failed. So maybe those people are gone. I don't know. Jillian Leslie 36:17 Okay. So now what is your kind of like, it sounds like building a product is I mean, building a physical product, not a virtual product is a lot of pushing the rock up the hill. How not to get taken advantage of building your own product Nicole Ketchum 36:31 It is and you need to arm yourself with as much information as you possibly can. Because anyone and everyone can take advantage of you. And I don't mean that in a bad way. And I'm not knocking China because everyone I've worked for in China has been wonderful and kind and hardworking. But the more you know about your own product, and that includes materials, how it's made your your files, the better, you are able to push that rock up the hill. Sign up for MiloTree and get added to my "Actionable Business Tips" email newsletter Jillian Leslie 37:04 If you want to get weekly business tips. Small digestible business tips, head to military. com, sign up for an account, you get your first 30 days free. And you also get added to my email list. Each week, I send a little nugget that will help you move your business forward. These are tips and tricks we've used to grow our two successful businesses. And now back to the show. Mistakes made building a product So what mistakes did you make the you would say, Oh, don't do this. Nicole Ketchum 37:38 Um, yeah, tons. Let me say, not knowing enough about acrylic. Jillian Leslie 37:49 Okay. The actual material. Unknown 37:50 Right? I'm not really the first time not the second time asking them point blank. What reorder number do you need? Nicole Ketchum 38:02 And what is acceptable to you? I'm finding out what would you have done differently? Unknown 38:11 I probably wouldn't have used them. Okay. Yeah, basically, they were a middleman. The owner is an American citizen who lives in Berkeley and owned a manufacturing company in China. And that China company also was like a middleman for because they have to source the acrylic, they have to source the crystal that I put in the middle of the fancy chandelier. The they have to source the S hooks and everything has to be sourced. Okay, um, and then they send those things to you. And then you look at it and they you say yes or no, this isn't fitting what I envision and I didn't know enough back then. So when I approached this second manufacturer, this time around, I had already my source all the materials from China and gotten it. Okay, so I knew exactly what it was. Yep. And I mailed them a sample, which I didn't do the first time. Okay, I mailed the sample of what my box look like, what the phone that holds a chandelier looks like what the shadow looks like, the accessories for the chandelier so that they would not mess up at all open. It was perfect. Jillian Leslie 39:26 Got it. Now, do you know other people like you who are creating products? Nicole Ketchum 39:33 Um, no. Jillian Leslie 39:35 Okay, to say it's like, I feel like other people are probably going through a lot of the same stuff. Nicole Ketchum 39:44 You know, it's been really frustrating for me, because I've joined a couple mastermind groups and everyone's either doing stationery and I'm not knocking any of that. I'm just saying they're doing like paper goods or, you know, other things that I'm not doing. And I at the level of I'm at, I need to find women or men that are already above me making more money and are where I want to be. And I haven't been able to, to find that and I need that so desperately that that camaraderie and that like ability to say, Hey, you know, I need to source this, or did you did you find I had I just had someone approached me who makes acrylic jewelry. And she's like, Are you okay, giving me that information? I was like, absolutely. Because it does nobody good for you to hold all of your sources close to your chest. You're just being selfish. And I don't believe in that kind of world. So I gave her my manufacturing contacts. Okay. I wouldn't do that. If, like some, if I'm teaching a class. I'm not going to give that to everyone, unless they pay for it. But because she was already making product, right? And was having trouble sourcing and acrylic. I gave that to her. Right. But I need that kind of, I don't know, I need to find people like that. And I'm having the hardest time that's so interesting. It's lonely, right? Jillian Leslie 41:17 Oh, I was just, I just recorded another podcast. And we were talking about that exact same thing, really general about being an entrepreneur that, you know, it's like, it's like the other moms at your kids school don't know what you do. And they don't quite understand it. And it can be it's a lot of you at a computer, right? And it can be lonely. And that's honestly one of the reasons why I wanted to do this podcast because I wanted entrepreneurs to share the truth about their lives, and to talk about struggles as well as the successes. But it's so easy on Instagram to see everybody's perfect life. Exactly. And it's not like that. But the reality is, it's the long slog. right? 42:06 It is and I've challenged myself, one of the things that I did get away from the mastermind group I was in is that I challengde myself to take behind the scenes video. So this morning, I went down to my basement. It's so glamorous, right? Show my inventory, right? Here it is, when you place an order, I go down to my large basement, and I get a box and I bring it to FedEx ups, or the post office, right, and I drop ship, but you don't see all the stuff I had to do to get to that point, or the money I had to spend, right. But here it is. And I'm trying to do that. Because people are like, "Well, can you get it in a pastel pink?" And or can you just do this? And I'm like, that's great. But I can't because I don't own a giant laser printer. Right. And cutter that I can put so right. Going to China to build your product Jillian Leslie 42:54 Right. Now, what about though either like, have you thought about going to China? Does that make any sense? Unknown 43:02 Yes, I would. That is one of my dreams is to to keep my manufacturer that I currently have and build a great relationship with them and go over there. Definitely. Jillian Leslie 43:15 And what would going over there give you? What's the benefit? Nicole Ketchum  43:20 Just seeing your product made in front of your eyes versus just having to do everything over the computer. And we used to do late night Skype sessions, right. As the time difference. Yep. Hmm. And they even walk me around the factory with their phone. So I could see that it was indeed a good place to do business with that would give me I don't know more. I'm not confidence. I don't know what the word is. Um, I would just feel more ingrained with my product. There's a little bit of me being removed. Jillian Leslie 43:53 I get it. Now. What about you investing in of laser cutter? Nicole Ketchum 43:58 I looked at a GlowGorage and that's something that I could probably use to make small products like, Yeah, but there I think their capability is like, till, like, 212 or something. Okay. Um, we looked, my husband and I, before we, we took the loan at, we looked at taking a loan out for a laser cutter, and even just making them smaller, we would still need a giant size and you and I live in the northeast, you can't put it in the basement, it would seize up and freeze. So and there's no room. Yep, yep. Yeah, so we definitely, he's, since he's a designer, he was able to, like, approach it. He builds dorms for colleges, so he was able to approach it with a very pragmatic, right, and he was like, you're just gonna have to go through China again. And I was like, you're right. So Wow. Nicole Ketchum 44:48 Yeah. Well, I guess Yes. Nicole Ketchum 44:50 Oh, I was gonna say the company that I had I hired and, and I don't mind saying what, what company is, it's called idea buyer. And they're out of Columbus, Ohio, okay. They have their own manufacturing firm in China. And if things are successful with them, which I hope they will be, I could probably do a trip with them to go and see. Teaching other entrepreneurs about product design Nicole Ketchum 45:13 Yes, I eventually, along with having passion for home decor, and, and the stuff that I'm designing. I eventually want to teach other entrepreneurs. This, I discovered that I'm equally as passionate about that. And because I'm lonely, assuming other people are lonely. So I want to take the charge and lead because I am not seeing anybody really doing that. Jillian Leslie 45:36 Okay. So if you're interested in products, reach out, reach out to Nicole. Nicole Ketchum 45:41 Yes. Or go to the all conference. Jillian Leslie 45:43 Oh, yeah. So yeah, so let's talk about that. Okay. Well, first of all, what are you most excited about right now in your business. Nicole Ketchum 45:52 The possibilities with the company that I hired and with the connections that I hope to make it all conference and just the knowledge that I have, I have new inventory, new ways to sell it. Getting on Wayfare took four months. That was a big slog, and that's super exciting. I hope to be successful with them. So that's, that's what I'm excited about. Jillian Leslie 46:18 Okay, so we are both going to be at AltSummit in March. I am going to be talking about how to start a podcast in a weekend. This is my first time at AltSummer. And I had Gabby Blair on the podcast, you know, who is Design Mom and is one of the founders of AltSummit. And, you know, she said, definitely apply and I applied and so there, there I am, and you're going to be a resident to explain expert. Nicole Ketchum 46:51 Yes, I'll be a resident expert. At some point, I actually reached out to to Gabby, just saying, hey, do you guys need some of my chandeliers like over a table. It doesn't even have to be my table just for glitz and glam. And what did she say? I haven't heard back from her. But I'm pretty sure she's pretty busy. Yeah, okay. And one of my good friends. Olivia has been there several times and, and has worked in various ways with them. So I can always just ask her to how do I do that? Jillian Leslie 47:27 Right. And if if anybody in the audience is looking for a very cool design element in their house, or for a party or for their kids room, I love one for my daughter's bedroom. Definitely check out Nicole's product because they are super cool, beautiful, you know, they're very glitz and glam. That's what I would say. Yeah. And modern. Nicole Ketchum 47:49 Yes. Thank you. Appreciate that. Jillian Leslie 47:50 Definitely. Okay. So how can people reach out to you and you know, find out what you're doing connection with you and like pick your brain. Nicole Ketchum 48:01 They can always go to my website. It's for now. It's ChandelierbyNK.com. Or you can go to Instagram and look up chandelierbynk is the handle. You can just email me at Nicole@chandelierbynk.com or DM me on Instagram and I'll get right back to you. Jillian Leslie 48:22 I love it. Well, Nicole, I am again really impressed with your journey. And thank you so much for being on the show. Nicole Ketchum 48:01 Thank you Julian. I appreciate it. I look forward to seeing you in March. Jillian Leslie 48:22 If you're enjoying The Blogger Genius Podcast, please subscribe, leave a comment on iTune, rate us, share it with your friends, email me at jillian@milotree.com and I will see you again here next week.  

You never know who you're going to get into a Lyft with at a conference. Lucky for me, it was Gabrielle Blair from the blog, Design Mom, and founder of the Alt Summit Conference. Listening to her, I learned so much about how to be a super successful creative entrepreneur. Gabby was one of the first design-focused bloggers, and she paired that with being a mother to six kids. In our conversation, we talk about how she started her blog and grew it, how she and her family started the Alt Summit Conference for other creative entrepreneurs. We even go deep and talk about Gabby's battle with depression, how so much of what we both do as bloggers isn't exactly "real," and how we both deal with comparing ourselves to others. Gabby is such a down-to-earth, honest, kind person, you will love our wide-ranging conversation! Resources: Design Mom Alt Summit Darlybird Dooce Apartment Therapy Design Sponge Oh Happy Day Say Yes Freshly Picked Solly Baby Tubby Todd Emily Henderson Kinfolk Books MiloTree Transcript: How to Be a Super Successful Creative Entrepreneur with Gabrielle Blair Host: [00:00:03] Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian: [00:00:10] Hey everyone. Welcome back to the show today. I am excited to bring on my friend, Gabrielle Blair. Now Gabrielle and I really we just met in a Lyft on the way back from the airport to the Mom 2.0 Conference Jillian: [00:00:30] But I have known you from afar. You are the brains and the creativity behind both Design Mom, which is a blog that you've had since you started in 2006. Gabrielle: [00:00:44] Yes. Jillian: [00:00:44] And you're also the founder of a conference that I've been dying to go to called Alt Summit, which is a conference for creative entrepreneurs and influencers and you have such a beautiful blog. So Gabrielle, welcome to the show. Gabrielle: [00:01:00] I am so glad to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Jillian: [00:01:03] And it was so serendipitous that we were waiting in line and you said screw this, we're taking a Lyft, and we got in the Lyft with a random group of people and you paid for the Lyft, which was so generous. And I said to you, would you be on my podcast? Gabrielle: [00:01:18] And I said yes. Jillian: [00:01:19] And you said yes. So will you, because I don't know your story. I've known you. But I don't know your story so you tell me from the beginning, how you started this and one other thing we have to talk about in this is that you have six children. Gabrielle: [00:01:34] This is true. I have six kids, but they're not all toddlers anymore. So whatever you're picturing, it's probably not what you're thinking. Gabrielle: [00:01:44] I'm happy to share my story. You bet. So Design Mom was started in 2006. This is 12 years ago this month, July and I had just had Baby Number Five two months before, and I worked and lived in New York. Gabrielle: [00:02:02] I worked in the city as an art director at an advertising agency. And I loved my job, but after babies, once we were getting so many kids at home, I knew I needed a break where I could do sort of like an extended maternity leave, where I can maybe work at home, do some freelance that kind of thing. Gabrielle: [00:02:19] And I also knew by this time having had lots of babies that I go crazy if I don't have something creative to do after the baby's born. It's just sort of classic postpartum depression, you know you get overwhelmed. And if I had something to engage my brain that was creative and exciting, I could avoid some of that. Dealing with depression as a blogger Gabrielle: [00:02:37] Which is great. And I'm very open about having dealt with depression and dealing with depression daily, so you can read about that on Design Mom if you ever want to. But we won't talk about that right now. Gabrielle: [00:02:52] So blogs were around, but were still pretty new and most of the blogs I read were essay blogs and I really loved them. But I attempted to write an essay on a blog post once, and just went, Oh yeah I'm not good at this. Gabrielle: [00:03:06] This is not, you know, I had barely done any writing at that point in my life, and was really just a designer. That was where my focus was, on graphic design and art direction. Early design blogs Gabrielle: [00:03:15] But then I found Design Sponge and Oh Joy. And they were both design blogs that are still around, but they were very new. And you'll remember this is before any kind of social media, it was just blogs. And so a blog post might be what would be like a pin now, where it would be cute shoes. I love the cat pattern or you know what I mean. Like just something so simple. And that would be a blog post on a design blog. [00:03:41] Like a product image and a statement or it could be so short and you might do this multiple times a day. Because again it's like an Instagram or a pin or or a status update. Gabrielle: [00:03:54] So I saw that and went, Oh well that I can probably handle, it's very visual, very minimal writing and I can fit that in if I'm in the middle of a night nursing the baby or whatever. I just have a few minutes it doesn't have to be like an intensive eight hour block of work time. So I called it Design Mom. Gabrielle: [00:04:17] And at the time again I'm in New York, and I was 31, and here I just had my fifth baby. But most of my peers were just getting married or having their first baby. Jillian: [00:04:29] Wow. How old were you when you had your first baby? Gabrielle: [00:04:32] I was 23. Jillian: [00:04:33] Wow. Being an early pro at motherhood Gabrielle: [00:04:34] So for my peers in New York, as they're just having their first one like I am a total pro. Right? You know, they're having their first and I just had number five so they're asking me for advice as a mom, but also you know, it's New York you want to be a cool mom. So they're asking me like where did you find cute cute toddler shoes? And do you throw a first birthday party? Who's invited? The kid doesn't really have friends yet. Gabrielle: [00:05:00] Anyway that just stuff like that. I'm getting asked advice or do you use a sling or do you you know, use a carrier pack and which brand and what was the best looking option. What about diaper bags and just everything you know maternity clothes all of it. Gabrielle: [00:05:13] So I was getting asked questions by friends, my neighbors, my co-workers, naturally and I thought well I could cover that on a blog and talk about parenting but kind of through this design lens. Design Mom and the tagline from the beginning was the intersection of design and motherhood. Gabrielle: [00:05:31] And this is what I'm going to cover and that's what I did. That's what I've covered it was just ideas I had, or again I'd find some great deal on something or a new product that was cool or whatever it might be, and talk about it. And I would post three times a day and that was the average sometimes more and it took off. So this was even before Google Analytics this is I mean 2006 was a whole different world. Jillian: [00:05:57] And this was the time where, tell me if this is how you did it, but you would have your favorite blogs and you check them every day. Gabrielle: [00:06:04] Oh yeah. Because again, no social media. This was amazing. So I didn't have Google Analytics but there was a product called Track-See, a little software that you could put on your blog and it would count how many followers or who was coming. Gabrielle: [00:06:21] It was revelatory for me because my blog post might get five or six comments. Usually people I knew in real life, neighbors or co-workers or family members. But I put Track See on and I could see,oh there are a hundred and fifty people that came to my blog today and I don't know any of them, you know you would just have their IP address. And maybe their city and I would go, whoa what in the world. I was just amazing. Gabrielle: [00:06:49] So so it was trying to figure out, well how can I get them to speak out more and you know like how could I get them to sort of acknowledge their presence. How do I do that you know? Because I think it's amazing that these many people are reading. It just blew my mind. Of course now I have much bigger traffic. But at the time that was a big deal to see that there were over 100 people reading. The first blog giveaway started with Design Mom Gabrielle: [00:07:12] So I said, well what if I did giveaway and I've been credited for inventing the first blog giveaway. I don't know if you can even track that down. But I thought I need to give them an excuse to comment. So what if there's a prize and you can say anything you want and you just have a comment to win? Gabrielle: [00:07:31] So my one of my husband's friends from high school, I knew she had started a cool little shop called Darlybird. And I reached out to her and said, Hey would you be up for offering a prize and it will be comment to win and it's just this idea I have, and then you know you'll ship the prize to the winner and we'll just randomly pick someone you know pick a number kind of thing and let's just try it. Gabrielle: [00:07:57] And she's like, sure. How about a pair of earrings and a bracelet, or you know she came up with a prize. So I did it and I had the instructions that said OK we're going to try something new. Comment. You can say anything you want, I even gave sample comments so you know to help them out. Jillian: [00:08:15] Wow. Gabrielle: [00:08:16] Like, Wow this is cute. Or you can say, Neato! or I want to win! You know you're basically just really simple because I knew there was a few barriers for that. You know, people weren't used to commenting that wasn't a thing. And then there was a little captcha. And that the first time you see it you're like What is this?  You know that feels like an extra hurdle. Gabrielle: [00:08:35] And then of course it's intimidating to know you your words are just out there and your name might be associated with them, so I let them know. Oh you can. You can leave anonymous comment. You just need to have a real email address so I could contact you. But no one can see your email address. Gabrielle: [00:08:48] I'm kind of training them right. Teaching them how honesty works. And it was amazing so not all 100 plus readers commented but like 70 did. Jillian: [00:08:59] Wow. Gabrielle: [00:09:00] And I'm getting calls from all these people in real life that read my blog, you know neighbors are going. Who are these people? Where do they come from? Because of course they hadn't seen the stats from that. Jillian: [00:09:14] So they said this was just like a personal blog. Jillian: [00:09:17] Right. So they just thought OK so they're reading and the couple you know the few people commenting or reading, my sister's friends from church, friends in the neighborhood, you know things like that. Gabrielle: [00:09:28] And so they could not have been more shocked and I wasn't shocked because I knew I had seen the stats, but I still was shocked in that I didn't think 70 would, I thought I would maybe get 20 or something like that. Gabrielle: [00:09:40] So it was very exciting and immediately like the same day I got emails from must have been 10 or 15 different bloggers saying hey can I copy this? Can I copy and paste instructions? Can I do this because it was so effective. It's great way to sort of train people how to comment on a blog. Gabrielle: [00:09:59] And then of course it took off, and now it's just ubiquitous and of course are sort of obnoxious at this point. But it was a big deal at the time and I remember also having to explain to people. Every time there's a giveaway does that mean I get the prize. It goes directly to you, I usually don't even see it in person. Gabrielle: [00:10:20] Because they are already troubled with the idea that like I'm getting spoiled somehow by these I don't know. Anyway it was interesting. It's so intimate so personal, they don't like the idea that someone's making money from blogging at the time. Jillian: [00:10:38] Then how did you start monetizing online? Design Mom starting to monetize her blog Gabrielle: [00:10:41] OK so once I could see that there was traffic, once this giveaway thing took off. I was like, oh there's something here. No one was really monetizing their blog outside of display ads. I remember Heather Armstrong, Dooce had display ads and that was really kind of how you did it that, was it. Gabrielle: [00:11:01] And so but I felt like there was something there and I didn't have like an ad network to do to do display ads although within the next couple of years I got one but at first I just didn't even know how that worked or or how to how to go about that. Gabrielle: [00:11:15] So I started doing sponsorships right away just for trades. So one of the earliest ones I did is we were moving from New York, and we're moving to Colorado. And I approached I pitched moving companies. Moving moving across country is a big thing. Gabrielle: [00:11:35] And I approached moving companies and said I'm going to take these pictures on this blog post, you know gave them examples, showed them that some of that sample giveaways and just other stats I had at the time and said do you want to do a trade? Gabrielle: [00:11:50] I'll write about you, showcase the whole thing will do X number of blog posts. You know when we arrived, the unpacking all of this stuff make sure we're showing your trucks and let's trade. And Mayflowers said yes. So which was great because it is very very visual trucks so it worked really well. The green and yellow and they're really distinctive and for photography and stuff it was wonderful. Gabrielle: [00:12:18] This is pre-social media too. So blog content is really what the sponsor's getting. Then once I had that once I had built some of those trades I could actually start asking for money instead of trade. Gabrielle: [00:14:45] Trades are great, especially if you need it, but they don't buy groceries unless you're writing for grocery stores. I still I mean, I'm 12 years in, I'm established, I do this full time. I have plenty of paid sponsorships but I will still approach companies for a trade. If it's something that I need and I can get a great value out of that I'm totally fine with that. Jillian: [00:15:08] So give me an example of a trade that you recently did. How to approach brands about a trade as a blogger Gabrielle: [00:15:14] Sure, so I'm working on one right now for my boys' bedroom. My oldest son is getting home from two years abroad in Colombia. We haven't seen him for two years. He's been on a mission and he's getting home. Gabrielle: [00:15:27] We're redoing the boys' bedroom because while he's been gone it's been sort of half guestroom. It's just been in transition. So we're going OK he's getting home, he's older now. He probably won't even live in this room very long, but I want him to have a space when he gets home that feels like his own. You know just feel like he's got a spot. Gabrielle: [00:15:45] So I approached Room and Board, who I've worked with before and said, "Hey how about how about the social media package and blog package?" And I basically will price out OK I'm going to give you X number of post and X number of Facebook and X number of Instagram and I value that X number of dollars and then they'll trade for that amount of credit. Gabrielle: [00:16:08] And then I can use that to buy furniture and if I still have credit left over I could use it to buy additional product although usually I max it out. You know for the room, and it really gets decked out and have a good time. Jillian: [00:16:19] Got it. Gabrielle: [00:16:21] So that works great for me. I know I'm going to need to spend that money. It's great content. I know I can't buy groceries with it but that's fine. I can do other sponsorships for grocery money. Jillian: [00:16:32] So how often are you doing sponsored posts now? Gabrielle: [00:16:37] Oh it all depends. I feel like I aim for two to three a month right now seems to be a good amount. Jillian: [00:16:44] OK. And do you use a team of people to help you? Or are you the one taking the photographs? Hiring people to help with sponsored blog posts Gabrielle: [00:16:55] Yes and no. So I have had big teams in the past. I've had big teams of contributors and now I'm pretty barebones right now because I've shifted a lot of energy to Alt Summit. Gabrielle: [00:17:08] But basically what I have is I hire photographers, like I have a shoot for Room and Board tomorrow in store and I'll hire a photographer for that. Gabrielle: [00:17:16] So I have several local photographers here in the Bay Area that I know I can reach out to for basically a half day shoot, you know, come for two or three hours maybe up to four to shoot something at my house, or somewhere else other things I'd totally shoot myself. Gabrielle: [00:17:30] Often I'll shoot a shot recently for Stonyfield, my own kids. I'll shoot books myself. I shoot lots myself because I do things so last minute and that's just a function of a full life. I'm not trying to be a jerk about it, but it's just a function of how full my life is right now. Gabrielle: [00:17:51] It's hard to hire out somethings like there are definitely posts where I think, Oh I definitely should have hired someone to do this and I didn't do it in time and now I've got to do it. You know what I mean. I didn't. Because where I can do something the day of or the night before, I can't really ask that of someone I'm hiring. Gabrielle: [00:18:09] So I do have a great food contributor Lindsay Rose Johnson. She's been with me for years and years and years. If I do have a food post and I give her enough time she's amazing it's not like she needs months, but I don't want to ask her the day of. So she's amazing. Gabrielle: [00:18:25] If I have a craft project Amy Christie is a longtime contributor for me, and she's great at shooting. If I have an idea for a DIY but I don't have time to execute it myself, she's fantastic. Gabrielle: [00:18:36] What I'm trying to do I put out a call for an editor. I got amazing applications and then haven't actually had time to hire someone. Gabrielle: [00:18:47] My hope is that I will hire someone that can really help maintain daily content where I can check in with like when I have like a longer form post that I really want to discuss. Gabrielle: [00:19:03] Because Design Mom has transformed. Now it's almost all long form, it's one post a day. You know that kind of thing. But there are some things where it would be no problem to get a contributor. Gabrielle: [00:19:13] Like if I'm doing a shopping post or it might be a roundup of things I've found online that other articles that kind of thing where I really could get help. And then when it's something where it needs to be my voice like we're discussing a social issue or a parenting issue that I can really get in and write that. Gabrielle: [00:19:32] So I'm hoping to build my team up again in a way that I can keep Design Mom vibrant but also concentrate a lot of time on Alt Summit. Jillian: [00:19:41] So I have to stop you. You do one long form blog post a day? Gabrielle: [00:19:51] That's a little bit of an exaggeration. So, long form compared to when I used to do three posts a day? Yes. Because my three posts a day were you know two or three paragraphs and a photo. Or it might even be one paragraph and a photo. Gabrielle: [00:20:07] And now, a longer form might be it's 1,000 words or 3000 words and tons of photos or only one photo and a long essay. They are definitely longer form. If I can do one of those a week that's terrific. Gabrielle: [00:20:21] A Home Tour I usually do on Tuesdays and I do have a man named Josh Bingham. He's been editor of those for a while and it's been great. So he can help with that. And really what he does is you know compile it and put it online so then I can edit it from there you know. Jillian: [00:20:40] Wow. Yeah I mean I was on your blog today looking at your content and I didn't realize that you were posting every day! Getting comfortable writing as a blogger Gabrielle: [00:20:48] Yeah. And then I don't know if we count a shopping post, like I get pretty verbose at this point I'm like where I went from not being able to write an essay when I started in 2006. I mean I have a bestselling book now. I write a ton. Gabrielle: [00:21:02] So writing, I'm not very fast in it but I am comfortable writing now. I did one on a recent blog post is on four picture books. It's pretty minimal writing. So I just took more time to do the photos and the writing. Gabrielle: [00:21:20] And then my Friday links. I don't know that we call that long form, they do take a ton of research it's basically me collecting links throughout the week that I think are compelling that I want to share with readers and I'll do some introductory. Jillian: [00:21:35] We have to discuss this. What does your work schedule look like? Especially how many kids do you have at home? Because I know a couple of them are grown, too. Gabrielle: [00:21:45] Well this summer I have five at home. So yes my oldest is on this mission in Columbia as I mentioned. My second just spent her freshman year at Berkeley, which is just across town so she was in the dorms but not too far and she's been home for the summer. Gabrielle: [00:22:01] She's working full time so I don't see a ton of her right now but she is around. So really it's just the four, a high schooler two middle schoolers and a third grader. Jillian: [00:22:14] OK. So could you explain what your life looks like. What life looks like as a blogger with six kids Gabrielle: [00:22:19] Sure. I mean it's pretty crazy but I want to start with, my husband and I both came from big families where both of us are one of eight. Jillian: [00:22:30] OK. Gabrielle: [00:22:31] Number 5 in line and number 7 in line in his in his family, so we were used to an element of chaos. It just was normal to us and we knew we wanted a big family. Gabrielle: [00:22:40] So for sure our days would be too chaotic for a lot of people, which I totally understand and I'm not advocating that anyone else needs to do this but but it's also kind of normal for us. Gabrielle: [00:22:51] So a day that might stress someone else out, might seem like pretty normal at our house. Gabrielle: [00:22:58] So in the summer it's going to be different than the school year obviously. Last week was pretty crazy. Three of the girls were doing this skateboarding camp and then they went directly to swim team and then they had play rehearsal. Gabrielle: [00:23:14] But the play ended this week is going to be much more casual we have it's a much easier week but the kids are all old enough now they really can take care of themselves. They need rides but they don't need babysitters. Gabrielle: [00:23:28] So they can get up. They can work on an activity. They might climb our trees, we have these pretty epic trees where you have to put on climbing gear. Gabrielle: [00:23:39] They might bake, they really love baking. They might put on a play or make a movie someday if they're in the mood to be creative, or they might try and sneak in as much screen time as they can and just watch YouTube videos. Gabrielle: [00:23:52] You know typical summer day stuff they I don't really have to like take time to feed them lunch you know. Dinner yes, we'll all gather for dinner. But they can kind of take care of themselves. Jillian: [00:24:03] But are you working? Are you working between carpool? Or are you saying guys, I am working. Gabrielle: [00:24:09] Well my husband and I both work at home. Jillian: [00:24:13] OK. Is he your partner? Does he do Alt Summit stuff? Gabrielle: [00:24:16] He is not. He is part of a startup called Teacher.co and he is super busy in that and they're about to do an ICO. And he has a jam packed schedule. Gabrielle: [00:24:29] Over the years he has, you know, like we had a series of videos called All Of Us. That we did for scripts. We did like 40 episodes and he was a producer for those so he has worked with me before but really he has his own things. Which is awesome. He's does amazing stuff. Jillian: [00:24:45] Ok but do you like kick your kids out and go guys go to work? Gabrielle: [00:24:48] Yeah, totally so the kids know, I'm sitting with my laptop I've got to get worked on and they know that. But my workday gets interrupted a lot to drive. They're going to get picked up. Oh we got to do these errands. Gabrielle: [00:25:01] So my workday never really looks like I start working at 9:00 I end up 5 with a lunch break. That's not a thing. It's going to be I'm going to work from 8 to 10. But then I know we have to go run these two errands and then from 11 I have a phone call and then you know at 1:00 o'clock I'll get two more hours on the computer. Gabrielle: [00:25:20] But then after that, I've got something with the kids or something and then you know at 7:00, I can work again for a few more hours. Yeah I mean it might look like that. Jillian: [00:25:28] Wow. Gabrielle: [00:25:29] So I have my list of things I need to get done. I usually make that you know I'll update that in the morning. I'll find out my priorities at the top, the things that have to get done that day right. Gabrielle: [00:25:44] Those go at the top and then I tackle as much as I can. But I have to build a lot of flexibility in my days because it's real life going on, so yes you work hours but you also got to get the kids to the ortho appointment. Jillian: [00:25:56] Totally! And then there's food poisoning that takes the whole house. Gabrielle: [00:26:03] Right and then we're just out of groceries and we just have to go to the store. And there are tools I know out there, we just had a package from Amazon Prime Pantry. Have you ever tried that? Jillian: [00:26:17] Yes. Gabrielle: [00:26:17] You know that was delivered yesterday so there are some things I can do to try to use these services and I'm sure I could be better at that especially here in the Bay Area where all these startups began. So you can kind of access them before they even expand it to the rest of the country. Gabrielle: [00:26:32] But really, I feel like we do a lot of this just we don't use tools that we just go, OK we just go to the grocery store. What is the Alt Summit Conference? Jillian: [00:26:41] So can we talk about Alt Summit? Which is a conference that I have always wanted to go to. It seems like it is just so beautiful and cool. Gabrielle: [00:26:53] It is. Jillian: [00:26:54] And so you started this. So you said to yourself I'm going to start a conference? Gabrielle: [00:27:00] Well pretty much. So basically what happened was again, it's early blogging we were in 2009. So I've been blogging for a few years. My sister is a blogger. Her name is Jordan Ferney. Her blog is Oh Happy Day. Jillian: [00:27:14] Oh I love her. Gabrielle: [00:27:15] Yes, she's amazing. And my sister-in-law, married to my brother Jared, is also a blogger from Say Yes, Liz Stanley. So we had this blogger family and we were all on a family trip, and we were again since 2009. I guess it actually would have been 2008 because the first conference happened in January of 2009. Gabrielle: [00:27:36] So in 2008 we were talking and talking about conferences, and I started to go to a couple I've been to BlogHer and then helped start Mom 2.0 that first year, although I'm not an organizer now but just helped out that first year. Gabrielle: [00:27:53] Laura Maiz who is one of the key organizers, she also owns a part of Alt Summit, she is a longtime business partner of mine. So anyway that's the connection there. Gabrielle: [00:28:02] But I'm talking with my siblings we're all talking about these conferences, and I said well I've been to these conferences. It's awesome but they're really focused on writers or maybe kind of moms. Gabrielle: [00:28:14] A lot of the design blogs I was reading like Apartment Therapy or as I mentioned Design Sponge, Oh Joy. All these blogs I was reading in 2006 you know they're not at these conferences. The design blogs are not there and they're not really geared to design blogs. Gabrielle: [00:28:30] And so and like Jordan, who didn't have kids at the time, and Liz, who didn't have kids at the time, why would they have gone to Mom 2.0 Summit. And even BlogHer, they didn't really know any of those bloggers. It wasn't quite the right fit for them. Gabrielle: [00:28:44] So we were saying well, what if we did a conference for the blogs we read. You know these design blogs because I overlap both worlds with the name Design Mom I get to be a mom blogger and design blogger. Gabrielle: [00:28:56] But they were just strictly in the design blogging thing and this is before we were really even saying lifestyle blogs. So my sister Sarah who is not a blogger, but is awesome at organizing things said, yeah let's do a conference. I can be the event or the event planner or the organizer. And you guys can handle the speakers and content. Gabrielle: [00:29:19] Liz and Jordan didn't necessarily want to be involved in that, but I totally did. So Sarah and I really started this conference where I handled all the content, the speakers the programming. And she did the planning and it was and great. It was awesome. Jillian: [00:29:36] The thing about the conference is it's so true. They sell out immediately. Gabrielle: [00:29:41] They really do. It's like a two hour thing. Although I have to tell you this year we expanded for the first time in a big way. We've always kept these very small and it's kind of been obnoxious. Gabrielle: [00:29:54] I mean it's awesome to sell out, but then we get just these you know sob stories that people they really want to get there, and they didn't happen to be available in that two hour mark. They were in a meeting or whatever the tickets are gone. Gabrielle: [00:30:04] And we knew it was a problem and we'd try and open more. You know it was it was just a struggle. So we're really excited because I think I've solved that. I mean we'll see. We'll see how this year goes. Gabrielle: [00:30:17] But I had this flash of insight at some point as we were looking at locations and saying are we going to stay in Palm Springs, is time to move? Gabrielle: [00:30:27] And all the really cool hotels in Palm Springs the ones that I really love, The Park at Palm Springs and the Ace Hotel and Saguaro, they're amazing and they're memorable and you just love being there. Jillian: [00:30:38] Yes. Gabrielle: [00:30:39] They're not really big enough for a conference Jillian: [00:30:42] No. Gabrielle: [00:30:42] In fact Alt Summit was at the Saguaro the last two years. And we knew we were too big, and as we do surveys basically people would say, you guys this was awesome but this hotel is not big enough. Gabrielle: [00:30:52] I mean like we know but if we move to another hotel. It's just they become so generic so fast. Jillian: [00:30:58] Yeah. Gabrielle: [00:30:59] So you're at a Ritz Carlton or a fancy Hilton or whatever, it's just a big hotel with you know regular ballroom spaces they are split into classrooms. And then you compare those to these special properties in Palm Springs. Jillian: [00:31:13] And by the way we just have to say for people who don't know. Palm Springs is like a mid century fantasy like it is a designer's dream place. I mean my husband and I just drive around and look at the architecture. Yes. So I understand why you do it in Palm Springs. Gabrielle: [00:31:33] And we've all you know we did it had a big fancy hotel in Salt Lake for many years. We loved it. It was gorgeous. You know a five star hotel. Amazing. It's not like we're opposed to that, but we know having done it at these more distinctive spaces that it makes a big difference. Gabrielle: [00:31:47] And our social shares when we move to the Saguaro which is this Rainbow Hotel, our social shares went up by 30 percent. Well because it's basically the most Instagramable spot on the planet right now. Gabrielle: [00:32:00] And anyway so I was trying to figure out what to do because if we wanted to get a hotel, as I said it's really hard to find a hotel that has big meeting spaces but that is still really special and that doesn't feel sort of run of the mill. Gabrielle: [00:32:13] And we could transfer to something like, oh let's have like more of a warehouse feel on a pier or something. Jillian: [00:32:19] Right. Gabrielle: [00:32:19] But then it's not a one day conference, it's a month at a conference and people want to congregate at a hotel where they can hang out. So we know this and we were really stuck on where to have this. Gabrielle: [00:32:33] And then I thought well what if it was at all the coolest hotels in Palm Springs. None of them have a big enough room for you for everybody. But what if there was enough classes going on simultaneously at different locations where there's enough room for more people. But we still have this small feel, small classes and these really cool spaces. [00:32:57] So I'm really excited. We've expanded. We're going to have three times as many people, we're going to have 2,000 people there. We'll have four locations. And then because of these multiple locations, we looked to South by Southwest. And I've been to South by Southwest multiple times. And I look to see kind of learn what I could from them. Gabrielle: [00:33:19] Part of what they do is they actually do a nine day program. Ours will only be six. But the point is that you have more time to move around these locations and to fill your schedule instead of just like pack into classes and kind of get overwhelmed and and not feel like you got to do everything you want to do. Gabrielle: [00:33:36] We could spread this out and give people more time. Because that's some of the feedback we've gotten. They love the content but they want to see every class and they can't because they're you know several going on at the same time and even when we've repeated and we have tried things like that they just want more. Gabrielle: [00:33:55] And so we're hoping this provides that we know six days is a long time, and we know that some people will only come for part of it which of course is no problem. And they'll it'll be worth their while however long they can come. But we're really excited about this. Gabrielle: [00:34:09] And we did contract with one very big space where we can do like massive keynotes or things like that but otherwise everyone will get to go to whatever class they want to at whatever location, and we'll have shuttles going. We're hoping to do some kind of like electric scooters and let people get to know the city as they drive around and get access to all the cool spots in town. Jillian: [00:34:40] What month is it? Is it in February? When do you do it Gabrielle: [00:34:43] Well it's actually March. So it's been in January for now eight years. Jillian: [00:34:51] OK. Gabrielle: [00:34:52] Well sorry, seven years than two years in February, and this year we're moving to March simply for logistics. It was the week that all of the properties we wanted were available the same time. What type of blogger is Alt Summit best for? Jillian: [00:35:03] Got it. And by the way there'll be a link in the show notes if you want to check it out. And if you were to say who the perfect person or different types of people who would get the most out of the summit, who are these people? Gabrielle: [00:35:18] So these are typically women it tends to be about ninety five percent women. So it's women. And these are people that are drawn to creative careers. Gabrielle: [00:35:28] Originally it was aimed at bloggers. But again as social media has changed, it really expanded. So all of a sudden Etsy shop owners wanted to come and and they were welcome, we did content for them and then people who are making their careers on Instagram or Pinterest, you know they were there in fact Pinterest. The the Web site launched at Alt Summit. Jillian: [00:35:48] I knew that! Yes. Ben Silbermann talked. Pinterest was launched at Alt Summit Gabrielle: [00:35:51] Yes. Well and I can tell you a segue just a brief thing about Ben. First he came just as an attendee. Jillian: [00:35:59] Yes. Gabrielle: [00:35:59] One of our early years and he was just kind of, you know, he's not like a crazy loud guy, he's just really nice. You know seems kind of like an introvert you know and he would just be approaching people quietly and say hey, I have this thing. Check it out. And it was very visual obviously it's Pinterest and so Alt Summit was all these visual bloggers. Jillian: [00:36:22] Right. Gabrielle: [00:36:23] And and so they would try it out and loved it because it is such a useful tool if you're a visual person and you know the idea of being able to have a pinboard, with all the things you love is so right up any visual person's alley. And so people loved it. Gabrielle: [00:36:37] And the next year he came back he was on a panel, and then the next year he was the keynote because Pinterest had exploded. Jillian: [00:36:46] OK so if you are in design or if you are an influencer or if you are an Etsy shop owner. Gabrielle: [00:36:55] Right. So I want to say creative entrepreneurs. So if you are trying to run a business and you tend to the visual or creative. So like some really beautiful baby product companies have come. Gabrielle: [00:37:10] I'm thinking of like Freshly Picked, they do moccasins and diaper bags and things like that. You know she came to Alt Summit many many years, learned her social media here learned a lot of her business skills there and has built a massive company. And I certainly can't credit all them for that. but that the type of person that comes. Gabrielle: [00:37:27] Solly Baby who does wraps as well as Tubby Todd. All these women come to Alt Summit. Those are baby products but I'm just saying they all require lots of visuals, they're all required a lot of creativity. They're going for like beautiful lifestyle kind of things. That's a great fit. Gabrielle: [00:37:43] Jessica Alba came when she was just launching Honest Company. It was such a great fit. And any of the cleaning companies that are really cool and visual if you think of Method or Mrs. Meyers they love to come to Alt Summit. You know it's this very design appreciative crowd. Alt Summit is for creative entrepreneurs Gabrielle: [00:38:01] So you might not be a designer yourself, but if you're like, yeah, but I love reading Emily Henderson's blog or I love reading Apartment Therapy, or whatever it might be, You're going to love this. Gabrielle: [00:38:13] It's people building their businesses but they're trying to build a creative business. So that means we're talking about how do you do photography and we have modeling classes. A lot of these people have to be in photos right you know. So it's and then you know how do you present yourself so there might be fashion. How do you do your makeup. Gabrielle: [00:38:30] All of this stuff ends up overlapping with creative entrepreneurs especially these days where you have to be everything right. You are the marketing team, you are the model. Jillian: [00:38:40] Yes. You are the editor, you are the voice. Gabrielle: [00:38:45] So we're teaching classes on how to do all this content creation how to photograph, how to write, how to do all that but also specific marketing things, like here's how to start an email list and here's what you should be accomplishing with your newsletter and that kind of thing. Gabrielle: [00:39:02] And then it might be OK. Well what about Instagram Facebook. You know maybe it's on Facebook content but then another one on Facebook ads and how to run those. Gabrielle: [00:39:12] And then of course a lot of these people have written books and they've gotten their book contracts by coming to Alt Summit. We often have publishers there, pretty much every year and they're often taking pitches. Gabrielle: [00:39:28] So like the Kinfolk Magazine, I brought my publisher there, Artisan Books, to Alt Summit and they met the Kinfolk team and ended up publishing Kinfolk recipe books. I want to say the big you know coffee table huge volumes. Gabrielle: [00:39:49] And I can give a million examples of those so if you're someone is thinking a book and it might be a novel but it's more likely like a coffee table book or you know that kind of thing. Gabrielle: [00:40:01] Darcy Miller who is the editor of Martha Stewart Weddings for you know the entire run basically of the magazine comes because she's launching her new creative career as a crafter and you know everyone comes. It's amazing. Gabrielle: [00:40:14] So we'll have fashion people there, and we'll have YouTubers there and we'll have Etsy shop owners, tons of crafters, often Joanne's comes in as as a sponsor and we'll just even have classes where you can just craft your heart out. The balance between Design Mom and Alt Summit Jillian: [00:40:28] That's amazing. Now, how much of your life is spent doing Design Mom and how much is spent doing Alt Summit? Gabrielle: [00:40:37] Well Alt Summit is such a seasonal thing that it's it's probably ends up being 50/50 but it doesn't it doesn't feel like that because the Alt Summit stuff ramps up as I get closer. Gabrielle: [00:40:46] So like for right after Alt Summit, I'll have a few months where I'm barely doing Alt Summit. The conference is over there's sort of that dead period where we're doing it a little bit of marketing and some follow up and that kind of thing. But mostly I can semi-ignore my inbox there. Gabrielle: [00:41:03] But then the closer we get, the more I have to do Alt Summit until I'm at a point where I'm barely functioning on Design Mom, I'm sure the readers are furious. Gabrielle: [00:41:17] Or I've hired friends to give me content for the week. You know like guest post, things like that because I just have to disappear. Gabrielle: [00:41:25] The issue is this year with this expansion of Alt Summit, which again I'm so excited about, I think about it all the time it's going to be amazing. I have even less time for Design Mom and it is a really tricky thing. Gabrielle: [00:41:41] Design Mom's comment sections are amazing the community there is so good, so vibrant, so interesting and I don't want to give it up, it's like personally super fulfilling for me. And also I think it's important. It's one of the only place on the Internet where you can discuss some of these hard things and not have fights break out in the middle of the comments you know. It's a really special place. Gabrielle: [00:42:04] So it's my biggest challenge this year is going to be figuring out how do I maintain Alt Summit in a way that feels authentic and that readers are happy with, but be able to devote a lot of time to it. Gabrielle: [00:42:15] And I think the biggest issue I have and it's always been true is to do sort of that background infrastructure stuff. How do you fit that in? It's almost like you have to shut down the blog for a couple of weeks to do some of the background stuff you know like to say to do your hiring and to get people trained, how do I fit that in with my normal daily schedule of posting working on Alt Summit taking calls with clients, things like that, I don't know. Gabrielle: [00:42:41] I've never been able to figure that out. Do you know what I mean? Jillian: [00:42:46] I do. And I guess one thing that I would love just to speak to you briefly is, you are visual and you are a designer and you make beautiful things and we kind of touched on this previously. Jillian: [00:42:59] Before we we started recording we were talking about podcasting because you're starting a podcast, and we just were talking about it and we were talking about this idea of my philosophy with podcasting is to press record and just let it happen. Jillian: [00:43:15] And if you know, kids come in or dogs bark or whatever, I'm going to leave it in because this is life and life is messy. How do you reconcile the fact that you've got six kids and as you're describing your day, no day seems like it's like the next day, and yet there's something beautiful to what you do. How to balance the mess and the beauty as a blogger Jillian: [00:43:34] And I would say my days are messy but it doesn't look that beautiful. And when I think of Alt Summit, I think it's so beautiful it's almost intimidatingly beautiful. How do you balance the mess and the beauty? Jillian: [00:43:48] Because I think a lot of influencers struggle with the fact that they go onto Instagram and everybody's life looks more beautiful than the next. And we all say well underneath it, it's probably not like that, but how would you speak to that? Gabrielle: [00:44:04] Yeah, I mean I've spoken to that quite a bit over the years and I don't know that I have a great answer, but I'll tell you give you some thoughts. Gabrielle: [00:44:14] You know, we do as just as consumers of content because yes, I Instagram but I also read Instagram right. I follow people and as consumers of content, we do love vulnerability and honesty and authenticity. But I feel like only to a certain degree. Gabrielle: [00:44:37] I think people think, no I want the real thing, the unvarnished and I don't believe that's true because I've tried it over the years. Again I'm in this 12 years, I've tried this kind of thing and I've seen other people try it and people want the vulnerability but they want a little bit controlled. Jillian: [00:44:57] Or packaged with a pretty bow. Gabrielle: [00:45:00] You don't mind seeing the laundry but you don't want to actually see the dirty underwear. Like it's like, I don't mind seeing there's a cute little basket that has laundry in it that needs to be done or a big pile on the couch but there's pretty filtered light or whatever. Gabrielle: [00:45:14] But I don't actually need a close up of your dirty laundry like no one wants that. And of course not, that's disgusting but that's true. Like I mentioned earlier, I write about depression, and I do and it's a real and very real it's part of my life but I rarely write about it or even mention it when I'm in the depths of despair. Writing about depression as a blogger Jillian: [00:45:36] Yep I get that. Gabrielle: [00:45:37] I'll write about it after, it when I feel like I've gotten things under control and been able to resolve it and think about it and can reflect on it carefully, and then I'll write about it and talk about this is what helped and this is what didn't help, and you know and be able to be helpful about it. Gabrielle: [00:45:52] If I just told you every time I was super depressed, it's just too depressing for everyone else. You know it's just awful. Gabrielle: [00:46:02] So I can write about it and they appreciate it and I can give them helpful things and I can acknowledge that this is real, and they don't need to be afraid of it, and they can fight it. And all these things and I don't need to have shame around it but they really only want to hear that when I'm through it. Jillian: [00:46:17] And you're on the other side with a little bit of a bow on you. Gabrielle: [00:46:20] A little bit. And now now that's not always totally true. It depends on the platform and you know that kind of thing because if this is just my friends on Facebook on my personal Facebook page and I was you know in the depths of despair and just said Hey guys I need a little love. Help me out. Well you know like that's no problem. And I can really be in the depths of despair but I don't feel like I could do that on Design Mom. I mean maybe a tiny bit but not really. Gabrielle: [00:46:49] So it is real and messy behind the scenes and I don't think people really want to see it as much as they claim that they do. And so yes you can be vulnerable and honest and authentic in all these things. But I mean I get on Instagram I have different needs on different platforms right. Gabrielle: [00:47:07] Like on Twitter, I'm mostly just looking for news stories. I feel like I get the headlines fastest there versus even going to news apps you know. So I like news headlines and I like just funny, like people are funny responses and it's makes me laugh. Gabrielle: [00:47:25] On Facebook I use it more as a personal thing, so it's going to be like someone's birthday or it's you know someone had a baby or that kind of thing. Gabrielle: [00:47:38] And then on Instagram, I'm looking for pretty pictures and inspiration. Jillian: [00:47:42] Right. Gabrielle: [00:47:43] So content I make. Of course I try to use pretty pictures, but the things that get the best response is when I'm discussing sometimes heavy things like again social issues or politics or that kind of thing. Gabrielle: [00:47:55] But me as a consumer, I'm just looking for pretty pictures and other people are too, and I know if they don't follow me, I totally get it because they might just be like, No I'm just looking for pictures of parties or pictures of vacations or whatever that might be right. And that's totally fine, you can get whatever you want out of those things. But if I'm if I'm on Instagram, I just want pretty and someone is showing me their dirty laundry. I'm going to be like, no. Dealing with jealousy as a blogger? Jillian: [00:48:22] OK. Do you ever have that thing where you see somebody who does beautiful things and do you ever get that pang of jealousy or I wish I had done that. Gabrielle: [00:48:37] 100 percent. I don't know how to do that beyond human nature right. This is just how it is. Jillian: [00:48:44] But again I just have to say you are Design Mom, you created Alt Summit. I want to hear you too feel that way? Gabrielle: [00:48:51] For sure. So for me it's so I'll see something and I'll go. It might be business related right. I'll see. Like even the podcast. I'm working on this podcast but I've been trying to, I knew I needed to do this a year ago. I'd already gotten feedback about this and then had it confirmed again earlier this year. Gabrielle: [00:49:11] But again I've known this for a long time and so I'll see someone announce a podcast, or do something and think, I'm so behind, you know like that kind of stuff will kill me. Gabrielle: [00:49:20] Or if I see someone just doing something really smart on Instagram and I'm just a slacker on Instagram, and I'll feel like business guilt, like I know I could have a bigger following, and that would be better for me but also for sponsors and it's better for the business in general. Gabrielle: [00:49:35] But I'm not doing it and I'll feel that sort of business owner guilt, you know which I think if you a business owner you know what that is because there's always your list is never done. There's always something. Gabrielle: [00:49:44] Oh I should be optimized for SEO in these ten steps that I'm not doing, I'm only doing three of the steps, you know or whatever it might be, or I was doing a newsletter every month and then I had to take a break. Gabrielle: [00:49:56] And I'm feeling guilty because I see someone else's cute newsletter come out and I think I know I could get help with this and hire it out and get this done and why have I done that? So I definitely feel that kind of thing from a business perspective. Jillian: [00:50:08] And how about like somebody is launching a line of party supplies for Target? Gabrielle: [00:50:14] Why can't I have that? Why haven't I worked with Target before. Am I not good enough? And you start questioning yourself, should I be pitching is that where I should be spending my time? Gabrielle: [00:50:22] And then again business questions on like, is that how to make money, or is it better to sponsor posts or should I be doing some subscription service somewhere? You know where they get a box? Or you know trying to figure out those questions because you are trying to build a business and provide for your family. Gabrielle: [00:50:38] Yeah those kind of things can drive me crazy. And then you have the personal stuff, like you see someone, maybe I've had a day where like I've just really been glued to the computer. I had a bunch of deadlines had to get stuff done and I get on Instagram and someone's made cookies with their kids, and I'm like, I'm like the worst mom. My kids have been have been on YouTube all day. Gabrielle: [00:51:04] I haven't even talked to them, you know, I don't even remember even saying words to them this morning. I got right on my computer. And you just feel like a jerk you know. Gabrielle: [00:51:13] I mean that's just I don't know what to say. But I think everyone's going to fill that and I definitely take social media breaks and I'm not supposed to as a business owner. Jillian: [00:51:27] As an influencer, I know I do the same. By the way, I do the same. Take a break from social media as a blogger Gabrielle: [00:51:29] But I have to I think it's just kind of kills me sometimes so I'll take breaks, the easiest one for me to not take breaks from is Twitter because I don't follow anyone like that where it like. It's not really visual and I'm not following any of my business peers or really influencers. Gabrielle: [00:51:48] It's like again, I'm there for news or different things so I'm fine to get on Twitter and never throws me off like that. But Instagram can kill me. Oh my gosh or I'll see someone on vacation. Jillian: [00:52:00] Well for me on Facebook seeing people on vacation and I don't know why, because I go on vacation. But something about here's our family in Rome kills me. Gabrielle: [00:52:11] Yes. Or if I see a couple and I think when's the last time I took a vacation just with me and Ben Blair you know, where we got to get away. And I'm sure we should do that and keep our marriage healthy you know. I don't know how to avoid that. Gabrielle: [00:52:27] I know Facebook is a trigger for some people definitely Instagram is mine. Jillian: [00:52:30] Facebook is mine. Gabrielle: [00:52:32] Yeah. Jillian: [00:52:36] Well I have to say, I so appreciate your honesty about this because I have to tell you that I've been a writer forever, I was a writer in Hollywood for a lot of years so the written word is very comfortable to me. Jillian: [00:52:52] But visually, really I've always felt inadequate. And so to hear you say that you too have these feelings is so comforting and you are the brains behind Alt Summit, which I have always wanted to go to, but also feel like I don't know, I'd feel like a poser. Gabrielle: [00:53:12] No you would love it! Why we fake things as a blogger Jillian: [00:53:14] I say this to my daughter all the time. We'll be doing a sponsored post, and I'll be shooting something for Instagram and it will be a lava cake. There was this lava cake I had to make. Guess what? It got stuck, ultimately it didn't flow out so you know what. I faked it. Jillian: [00:53:35] I had some floaty stuff and I put the cake on top of it and I said to my daughter come in here, I want to show you this. This is fake and I want you to know that it's going to look good and it's going to look as if this stuff oozed out beautifully and that it totally worked. And this is fake. And I wanted to be a teaching moment. Why. Gabrielle: [00:53:58] Did she get it? Jillian: [00:53:59] She totally got it. And by the way, that post is up on Catch My Party and it doesn't say that I faked this. Gabrielle: [00:54:05] Well I don't blame you. I mean look, that's anyone who shot a photo ever of anything must understand that right outside the frame is chaos and mess. That's just the reality. Gabrielle: [00:54:18] And that was true long before blogs. I worked in New York I was in art direction. We do shoots for magazines, we do shoots for, you know all editorial and all kinds of stuff, and it's just a chaotic mess outside the frame period. It has nothing to do with being an influencer. That's just the nature of creation and photography. Gabrielle: [00:54:38] It's art. Think you have a beautiful piece of art on the wall at a museum. But to create that the mess that the artist made in their studio, was going to be nuts is going to be insane. And so that's that's how it is. Gabrielle: [00:54:51] So if you're if you're going to be someone who creates content and as a business person or an artist or just a creative, there's going to be a mess. Gabrielle: [00:55:01] And if you are a reader or consumer of social media or blogs or whatever it might be and you don't understand that this is pretend, it's every bit as pretend as the magazines you used to read. And that was the thing. Then you're there you're not being fair, you're not coming to this as a fair participant because no one has ever said this is my life all the time. Jillian: [00:55:33] So yes and I would say that for my daughter who is impressionable at 11. These are important teaching moments. Gabrielle: [00:55:42] For sure and for sure my kids know all of that because they're part of the shoots often. And so they know. All right everyone pretend we like each other. Jillian: [00:55:50] Exactly the number of times I've told my daughter to smile with gritted teeth, look like you like the pudding. Gabrielle: [00:56:03] And you know my kids just finished a play. They were in a play this week and they were three performances. It's the same thing. I had nothing to do with the play, had nothing to do with me. It was a big production. It was you know lots of adults they were kind of this children's chorus. Gabrielle: [00:56:17] And and you were at these rehearsals and it's a mess, and it's everything is behind schedule and blah blah blah. Like this is creativity. This is what it looks like. And they have to get on stage and pretend to be in a good mood even though the rehearsal went two hours too long and they're tired. And you know what I mean, like and they should have been in bed. Gabrielle: [00:56:38] This is not just blogging it's not just Instagram. This has always been the thing and it always will be as far as I can tell. I don't know how else to do it. It's the same with any creative endeavor, if you're a writer. You have these horrible messy drafts. Red ink everywhere and then you end up with this beautiful book. Jillian: [00:56:58] Totally I would say this. This thing which is I was a screenwriter, and I would finish a project. And it would be done and it would be and it would be great. Jillian: [00:57:09] And then I would start a new project and it would suck at the beginning and I would think to myself every single time, I lost it. I don't know I don't do this anymore because I was at the beginning. Gabrielle: [00:57:23] Yeah. Jillian: [00:57:24] And I'd forgotten. Gabrielle: [00:57:26] You are someone that's going to consume any content anywhere that was created as a creative endeavor, and whether again it's a fashion show or writing or a movie or whatever it was an enormous mess caused you know in order to create this thing. Jillian: [00:57:44] Right. And I bet you sucked at the beginning. Gabrielle: [00:57:45] And I'm sure the beginning, the first drop was awful and the first you know try the first photo was awful, and you know what. This is how it is if you're going to consume this stuff and pretend that's not true. Gabrielle: [00:57:56] That somehow, this book came into being perfectly. Or this movie came into being on the first take or whatever it is, I can't do anything to help you. You're living in a different world than I am if that's the case. Gabrielle: [00:58:13] But that said, and I understand that the feelings of jealousy or inadequacy are totally real. And they were real before Instagram. Gabrielle: [00:58:33] You know that or at work because it's the same reasons you didn't get the promotion or you didn't get picked for this project or whatever it might be. The feelings of inadequacy, the comparison, the all of that. That's not a new thing that has been with us forever. And I assume will be with us forever. Gabrielle: [00:58:51] And if you need to take a break from social media, take a break. It will be there when you get back you know it'll be waiting for you. Jillian: [00:58:59] I agree. All right. So Gabrielle this is terrific. How can people reach out to you see what you're doing, all of that? Gabrielle: [00:59:07] You bet. So the blog is still my favorite spot because I own it. And the algorithms can't change it. So yeah you can always go to DesignMom.com to see the latest, I post there very frequently and I'm pretty decent at responding to comments so feel free to check in with me there. Gabrielle: [00:59:23] I'm also on Facebook at Design Mom Blog, is my page on Instagram I'm Design Mom on Pinterest. I'm Design Mom I'm active on all of them. But if you want to see it first it's usually on the blog. Buying a ticket to Alt Summit Jillian: [00:59:34] OK and if they want to learn about Alt Sumit, are tickets on sale now? Gabrielle: [00:59:40] They are on sale now and prices are going to go up and up. So if you want them, now is the time to get them. The handles are all Alt Summit on all social. Gabrielle: [00:59:52] But the web address is actually altitudesummit.com which was the original name so it was originally Altitude Design Summit and then we're going to start calling it Alt Summit which is much easier to say. Gabrielle: [01:00:02] But yes, so tickets are on sale if you've ever been before. There is an alumni discount available because we know this was kind of a leap in price if you weren't used to it. Gabrielle: [01:00:13] But even for everywhere else this is the best price you're going to get, whether you've been there or not. Right now the best prices the best price you're going to get. It's going to start going up per month. Gabrielle: [01:00:23] Again modeling that on South by Southwest, seeing how other longer conferences do that. So this is definitely a learning year for us. But I just was on the call this morning about some content programming and it's really going to be epic. Gabrielle: [01:00:39] With Alt Summit, the goal has been to amplify women's voices and kind of what they're doing, the projects they're working on, and bringing attention to what they're doing which is still my goal. Gabrielle: [01:00:50] And this is going to allow us to not just focus on cool things entrepreneurs are doing, and cool things brands are doing, but you know what are cool films women are making, and what are cool bands and cool music women are making, and you know if you're if you're a woman and you're doing something really interesting, maybe it's a nonprofit maybe you're a writer. I want you there I want you there telling your story. Gabrielle: [01:01:14] Getting to know people and you can build your business or also just again amplify your message, amplify whatever it is you've created. So I'm really excited. It's going to be epic. Jillian: [01:01:25] Oh Gabrielle, thank you so much for being on the show. Gabrielle: [01:01:29] Thank you so much for having me. What a treat to talk to you. Please share The Blogger Genius Podcast with your friends Jillian: [01:01:32] If you are liking The Blogger Genius Podcast, then please subscribe. You can subscribe on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, really anywhere you get your podcasts, and please share it with your friends. Jillian: [01:01:45] If you have a blogger friend or an entrepreneur friend that you think would like it. Please get the word out, and if there are guests you'd like be to have just email me at Jillian@MiloTree.com. I would love to hear from you. So thanks for supporting the show. How to grow your authentic Instagram followers fast and free with MiloTree Jillian: [00:36:00] Are you trying to grow your social media followers and email subscribers? Well if you've got two minutes I've got a product for you. It's MiloTree. 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Today, I'm talking with Instagram expert, Sue B. Zimmerman. We talk about how to win on Instagram NOW -- what's working and what's not. Listen to me in the hot seat as Sue critiques my Catch My Party Instagram page. She was definitely blunt, but since I'm always looking to learn, I was interested to hear what she had to say. I think you will be too!   Resources: Social Media Examiner Social Media Marketing World Sue B. Zimmerman Catch My Party Catch My Party Instagram MiloTree * May contain affiliate links. If you click and make a purchase, I might receive a small commission at no cost to you. Transcript: How To Win On Instagram NOW With Sue B. Zimmerman Host: [00:00:03] Welcome to The Blogger Genius Podcast, brought to you by MiloTree. Here's your host, Jillian Leslie. Jillian: [00:00:11] Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am so excited to introduce my guest today because I am a fan girl of hers. This is Sue B. Zimmerman. Jillian: [00:00:24] I think of her as an Instagram guru. She's like a social media educator, she's a business coach. According to The Huffington Post, she's "one of the top 15 must-follow women entrepreneurs." If you are not following her, I recommend you do so. Welcome to the show, Sue. Sue: [00:00:43] Hey, it's really great to be here. And I love that you told me when we were pregaming, that you heard me in your ears when you were on vacation in Hawaii years ago. Jillian: [00:00:52] Yes. It was just as Instagram was this kind of cool platform, but nobody yet had cracked the code of how to use it for business. Jillian: [00:01:04] And all of a sudden I was listening to a podcast when you were on it, and you started talking about that and you made my eyes go wide. I think it was a podcast on Social Media Examiner. Sue: [00:01:18] Yes. Probably, because you said that you then met me at Social Media Marketing World this past year. Jillian: [00:01:22] Yes. And I stalked you. I ran off the stage and followed you, kind of into the back, where I shouldn't have been. And I said Sue, please come on my podcast. Sue: [00:01:33] Oh that's so funny. I do remember you now, and yes I do have a lot of stalkers but I love all of them, so it's all good. Jillian: [00:01:40] I feel like I want to start from the beginning, but I also want to make sure we touch on all the stuff that's happening on Instagram. Because there have been so many new things rolled out just in the last month or so. Instagram is a village Sue: [00:01:55] Yeah, this might set you up for some good questions, and I know that you have some in mind but let me just first say to everyone listening that, you know, Instagram is really a village. There's over 1 billion monthly active users now. Sue: [00:02:11] When I first started teaching six years ago, there was 140 million active users so the app is growing like crazy. And now there are neighborhoods in the village. That's what I like to say. On Instagram, your feed is your digital magazine Sue: [00:02:24] I use this analogy, I think it really makes people think more clearly about this app. So we have our feed which is what we've had all along, and that essentially is your digital magazine where the bio is the cover of that magazine; who you are, what you do, why you do it, and how you're different from everyone else that does what you do. Sue: [00:02:45] And then your feed is a representation visually of that content that you promised in your bio. And then we have another neighborhood which is our stories. Jillian: [00:02:55] Yes. Instagram Stories is another neighborhood in that village Sue: [00:02:56] And there's a street in that neighborhood called Highlights, because in order to have highlights, you have to pull down the content from the Stories and bring those resources into your highlights. And then we have Instagram Live, the third neighborhood. And then finally we have IGTV. Sue: [00:03:13] So there is a lot that we can talk about, but I want the listeners to know that no matter which neighborhood you commit to visiting and hanging out in, it's essential that you always show up with purpose focus and attention in a branded way that your followers will connect to you right now. Jillian: [00:03:35] What do you say though to entrepreneurs, so our audience is bloggers, small business owners, that kind of thing. And I always say this, their most limited resource is time. Sue: [00:03:48] Right. Jillian: [00:03:49] So you're telling me there are all these avenues, all these places where I might need to be. Sue: [00:03:55] Right. Well I mean I coach a lot of clients, and I have a lot of people in my VIP community for Ready Set Gram which is our signature course. And I tell people that you should not feel like you need to be everywhere because your competitor is, you need to be where you're happy being, where it doesn't really feel like work. Choose a social media platform that doesn't feel like work Sue: [00:04:19] If you're saying, oh my god, I've got to go post on Instagram it totally sucks, and I just checked it off my to-do list, next! You probably shouldn't be there, because so much of the success on Instagram happens after the post with engagement which we can get into soon. Sue: [00:04:33] But I tell my clients to master one social platform, know every nuance, every tidbit of information on how to excel and show up in a way that people are going to remember you so that you stay top of mind. Sue: [00:04:49] The more you spread yourself too thin and you just do random things, you're just going to get random results. Sue: [00:04:55] And that's the problem with most busy solo entrepreneurs, creative-preneurs is they just do random things thinking that they need to do all the things and and they don't have any traction. Jillian: [00:05:06] Got it. Okay. So if I were an entrepreneur today and given that you you laid out all these different features and places on Instagram, can you recommend one over the other? What part of Instagram should I focus on? Feed, Stories, Instagram Live, IGTV? Sue: [00:05:23] It goes back to what do you enjoy doing because a lot of people hate being on video. So they like have palpitations about like doing Instagram Live or doing IGTV, or maybe showing up in their Stories. Sue: [00:05:35] You know it has to be where you have a comfort level. And when you have a comfort level, you have confidence, and when you have confidence you show up in a great way. Sue: [00:05:43] The minute you are not comfortable doing something, it just doesn't translate well and again you get those mediocre results. Jillian: [00:05:53] Got it. OK. Because right now I have to say, a switch turned in me where I said I want to be more active on Stories. I was having those heart palpitations just feeling like Oh I don't know what to put on. And I don't think people are going to really care. Jillian: [00:06:13] And then I somehow shifted my mindset and said let's play around with this. Let's start exploring gifs and music, and all these new features and just have fun with it. And I know that for example, in my Stories they're going to go away in 24 hours. And that freedom has really helped me. Sue: [00:06:36] Oh yeah. I mean, first of all people, a lot of people really love my persona because I am so real and relatable and not perfect by any means, and I show up in that way in my Stories. What is the magic of Instagram Stories? Sue: [00:06:52] And so you get a real sense of the intimacy of that person and that, to me, is the magic of Instagram Stories. When you can craft a story that is entertaining, compelling, interesting, funny, behind-the-scenes, you name it. Sue: [00:07:06] If you can really connect to your followers in some way that makes them want to engage and converse with you, you now have a conversation. Jillian: [00:07:18] OK so I just have to interrupt, I see people though, in their Stories and let's say they have Etsy shops, or let's say they're creative in some way, but I'm watching their Story, their kids jumping in the pool and I don't care that much. So then I get worried like, I don't want to show my kid jumping in the pool. Sue: [00:07:43] Oh, agree. I know I am not interested in a day in the life of you as a mom. You know, what you do, what you eat, where you go that's on a personal-business account not a business-business account not a business Instagram account. Sue: [00:07:58] So I have two accounts, you probably know this. I have a personal, where I show the day in the life of a busy entrepreneur. Why you want a personal and a business account on Instagram Sue: [00:08:05] And yes I do show you my husband occasionally, and my kids, my dog, where I go, where I shop, where I eat, where I travel and people like that, because a lot of people live vicariously through my travels, because I am on the go, and I show them things that they never would have seen. And I do it in a way that is entertaining. Sue: [00:08:24] Now on my personal account, the Instagram Expert, I'm always showing up with and only with Instagram-related content for tips and strategies and news and tactics. And it's very laser focused. Sue: [00:08:37] I say stay in your lane. Stay in your lane and don't detour. The minute you detour and show me that you're having... you know cheers, it's 5:00p.m. somewhere, Margarita time like I don't care. Jillian: [00:08:50] Right. Sue: [00:08:51] Good for you. Exactly. Jillian: [00:08:53] Okay, I get it. So you then use both accounts very differently. Sue: [00:08:59] Oh yeah I'm very intentional, very very intentional. So Sue B. Zimmerman is literally me. If you want to connect with me as an entrepreneur. Sue: [00:09:11] I don't know if you know this, I've been an entrepreneur. since I was 13. I've had 18 businesses. I had my first million dollar business when I was 22. I was on QVC. Sue: [00:09:21] I've got lots of wisdom and information that backs up the claims of everything I teach and do. It's based on experience and not just you know "I'm an expert." It's like I had success in my store on the Cape using Instagram first. And I had a very very successful store. Sue: [00:09:42] I decided that I wanted to teach other people how to have the same kind of success because retailers were challenged and struggling and that's really how I got into starting to teach Instagram is as a small business owner who went through it. Sue: [00:09:57] I was on Twitter, Facebook, Foursquare, doing everything to get more customers, and the minute I started using Instagram, my sales increased dramatically, so much so that I'm just like this is crazy. And so I just knew I was on a mission. Sue: [00:10:18] Do you know who John Lee Dumas is? Jillian: [00:10:19] Of course! Sue: [00:10:19] John Lee Dumas is a good friend of mine, he interviewed me on his podcast. And if you go search Sue B. Zimmerman, John Lee Dumas, you'll see he challenged me on that interview. Sue: [00:10:27] I said, I did a video kind of staking my claim teaching Instagram and that video's like five years old. I got back from a conference and just said I'm going to teach everyone all over the world how to use Instagram. Sue: [00:10:43] So like I just kind of manifested what I wanted and I don't stop till I get what I want. I'm that entrepreneur. I'm that focused that determined. Sue: [00:10:52] And so six years later. Yes, six years later I have a business that's thriving, it's extremely successful. I have two full time employees. I have five contractors. We're a mighty team of seven and I play to my strengths every day. Sue: [00:11:09] And not everyone has that luxury. I don't want to go down a rabbit hole here with you, but that's just to give a little context to everything I'm saying. Jillian: [00:11:16] Absolutely. Absolutely. OK so here's here's my question, is the goal with Instagram connection? Is it, I want people to interact with me? Or is it I just want to kind of blast out my life? Instagram is about connecting and having a conversation Sue: [00:11:33] No no no. I mean everything's always, like I said, with intention. I believe that a comment on Instagram, if someone leaves a comment on Instagram, a real comment, not a follow me BS but I hope I can say that on your podcast. Sue: [00:11:50] OK so if somebody leaves a real comment in my mind, that is permission for you to have a conversation, meaning you can respond. I mean you should. You should respond to every comment. Sue: [00:12:03] But meaning you could take that conversation deeper if you wanted, to you could strategically have conversations one to one in the Instagram Direct Message because conversations lead to building a thriving community. Sue: [00:12:16] And when you, and when you have a thriving community of people who champion for you and endorse what you do, and talk about you, when you're not listening and tag you on posts and repost your content then you have conversions. Sue: [00:12:29] And conversions, we all want them. Are things like growing your email lists or actually selling something but it doesn't start there. And that's where people have the biggest problem. They want to have a sale first without even saying hi or commenting or connecting. Sue: [00:12:48] You've got to connect with a comment to have a conversation, you know to take that conversation deeper. And I do this. I have blocks on my calendar, twice a day, where I am spending time engaging in real conversations, and people ask me questions I answer. I direct them to a blog post I've written I've direct them to an IGTV video I've done. I direct them to an Instagram post. Sue: [00:13:15] I give them the information they need and I build that trust and so when they are ready to purchase something from me, or maybe join my group coaching or buy my hashtag handbook or purchase one of my social media classes, like my instagram Story class or a hashtag class or a course I can direct them where they need to go and not sell them. Sue: [00:13:37] No one likes to be sold to. No one. People want the thing that's going to help them get what their pain point is, like what are their challenges. Jillian: [00:13:47] Right. As a busy entrepreneur I think that we think about Instagram as brand building. And by the way, that's really abstract. How Instagram is brand building Jillian: [00:14:01] I think we think about it in a really abstract way and what you're saying is very different. Sue: [00:14:06] Oh but also I believe when it's done well, absolutely it's brand building. If you have a branded look and feel an energy around your content, you will attract your tribe. You will attract those that you are trying to serve. Sue: [00:14:23] But if it's not branded or there's not a theme or a message or information that's relevant to attract that person you're not going to have results. Jillian: [00:14:35] Right. But I think though you're taking it to another level then I think I typically think, when I think of Instagram. Which is for me it's more amorphous brand building. Jillian: [00:14:46] So for example, Catch My Party, which is our first business. We have something like 150 thousand Instagram followers, and we show off content from our site which is all about parties. People upload their photos of their beautiful parties we show them off. Jillian: [00:15:04] And so for me it's always felt like this is our way of giving back to our community, to say here we want to highlight these people who've done amazing work, hopefully send some followers their way. But I think that I have not taken it to another level. Sue: [00:15:25] What is your account? Jillian: [00:15:26] Catch My Party. Sue: [00:15:30] What does that stand for? Jillian: [00:15:32] Catch My Party is take a look at my page. Sue: [00:15:36] OK. So I'm looking at your account already. Wow you really have 156,000 followers. Jillian: [00:15:42] Yeah. Sue: [00:15:43] Wow. Jillian: [00:15:44] Thank you. Sue: [00:15:45] OK and how long have you been here? Jillian: [00:15:47] About five years. Sue: [00:15:49] Wow. That's impressive. Jillian: [00:15:52] And by the way I just have to say all organic growth. We've done nothing except post beautiful parties. Sue: [00:15:59] Wow that's really impressive. OK. So where you wrote Catch My Party that's where you're missing out in some SEO. No one's searching for Catch My Party on Instagram Sue: [00:16:10] And your bio could definitely be improved a little bit more directive. And what's this app? What is MiloTree and how does it work? Jillian: [00:16:19] So what we did, was we built a plug in to help us grow Catch My Party. It worked so well for us. We rolled it out as a separate company called MiloTree. And that's what the podcast comes out of is MiloTree. So if they want to grow your Instagram followers you can do it with our MiloTree pop-up. Sue: [00:16:40] What is this pop-up? What does it do? Jillian: [00:16:43] So what you do is you install it on your blog or Shopify store, or something like that and it pops up and it'll say Hey follow me on Instagram and the pop-up itself shows your most recent posts on Instagram. Sue: [00:16:56] Gotcha. Okay. Jillian: [00:16:57] And then you can also use it just so you know, for Pinterest, for YouTube, for Facebook or to grow your email list. Sue: [00:17:06] Okay cool. All right. So anyway Catch My Party definitely can have some improvement in the bio there and the thing that's missing with Catch My Party in my opinion is people. There's no people here. Jillian: [00:17:18] OK. Sue: [00:17:19] I'm not interested in looking at parties, I'm interested looking at people having fun at a party and partying. I'm not interested in the set up. To me this is just ok. This is Pinterest. Jillian: [00:17:32] Yes. Sue: [00:17:34] This is more Pinterest. On Instagram, people want to emotionally be pulled in so. Oh Happy Day. Oh Joy. Sue: [00:17:44] Oh Joy is a great account. She pulls you in. Oh Happy Day party shop pulls you in. Although they may they do a party shop, but they show people every now and again on theirs. Sue: [00:17:56] So you're missing out on the human aspect of your account. It's more just showing the party. It's very almost like marketing heavy. Jillian: [00:18:05] I love this free session here. Yes. And so that's what we are trying to think about, which is how to personalize it. And my instinct is to personalize it with Stories. Sue: [00:18:20] Oh for sure. You're not doing any yet? Jillian: [00:18:22] No I am, I am I think you might see my new haircut for example. Sue: [00:18:27] OK. Yeah. So I see your haircut. I really don't care. Jillian: [00:18:43] I know! Sue: [00:18:44] That's such a disconnect from what you post so I would unfollow that account if I saw that. I'd be like, Who are you? There is nothing that represents a party in this post. Jillian: [00:18:54] Right. Sue: [00:18:55] And so I would have been like, I'm bouncing. This is not what I signed up for. This is not why I'm following you. It has to be consistent everywhere. If it's not you're going to lose your followers. Sue: [00:19:08] Favorites of the Week. Yup what we do do that. Yes. Yeah. I mean again people are missing. Yeah. I mean it's a whole human aspect of the brand that's missing. Jillian: [00:19:24] I love that. OK. I mean it's funny because I feel like my businesses are very siloed. So in my podcast people get to hear me and know what I am doing. But I feel like Catch My party is probably too siloed. Sue: [00:19:46] Yeah I mean we can do a whole strategy session. Let's keep going with your questions for the for the interview what will what will help your followers the listeners. Jillian: [00:19:55] OK so let's talk about followers and how important are they and how important is it to be growing followers. Sue: [00:20:04] It's important to grow the right followers, not followers, and to be honest with you I have a lot of followers on the Instagram expert and they're not the right followers. Sue: [00:20:12] And so you know I have 64,000 followers or something like that. And I wish I was much more intentional at the very beginning and blocked followers that were literally just random followers you know from countries, guys, teenagers, the random people that followed me all over the internet but don't take any action that lurk on. Sue: [00:20:34] Because if I blocked all of them my engagement rate would be so much better. But now that I have some, I have so many followers that would take so much time for me to go back and the truth is I grow my email list about 200 to 250 people a week every week. Sue: [00:20:48] And that's my biggest goal. My goal isn't the followers. My goal is getting people on my email list so I can stay in touch with them. Jillian: [00:20:54] Interesting. OK. But then we were talking about how you will also reach out and talk to people on Instagram. Sue: [00:21:02] Exactly. I do that every day. I mean I do that either in the direct message with a video, I do it in comments every day. It's what I do. How to show up for your Instagram community Jillian: [00:21:13] But people will say oh my god, that's exhausting. Sue: [00:21:17] Well it's not when it's what you love doing. And how I get results. You want to grow with rising thriving business. It's working. That's positive reinforcement. Sue: [00:21:30] I show up for my community because my community loves what I do. And I have real conversations and I have real customers and I have real clients and I'm and I make real money. Jillian: [00:21:39] Right. Sue: [00:21:40] So there's the positive reinforcement it's working. If it's not working you're doing something wrong. Sue: [00:21:45] If you're not converting you know, you have 156,000 followers. And are they on your email list or are they just on Instagram? Jillian: [00:21:54] They're on Instagram. Sue: [00:21:56] Do you have a list? Jillian: [00:21:57] Yes. Sue: [00:21:58] OK. So if they're on Instagram they're not on your list that there's a problem. What is your goal? What do you try to get out of these followers? Jillian: [00:22:04] We monetize via traffic predominantly and affiliate sales. So we're not selling a specific product. So our business model is a little bit different. Jillian: [00:22:16] So with MiloTree we are selling a product, an app. So that's again why our businesses are very different and so therefore, I want that one-on-one connection with MiloTree, with the Blogger Genius Podcast, whereas I want eyeballs on Catch My Party. Jillian: [00:22:39] So for example, on Catch My Party, yes we are incredibly aligned with Pinterest, and we have 850,000 followers on Pinterest. Jillian: [00:22:49] So I say to people you know if you're a mom, and you've been planning parties, chances are you've been on my site. Sue: [00:22:56] OK. Jillian: [00:22:59] So we are intentional. And that's where Instagram, we've just kind of grown naturally. But I have not been as intentional with Catch My Party on Instagram so hearing you is very helpful. Sue: [00:23:13] Yeah because I'm looking, you have 156,000 followers and you're not even getting 100 likes on a post. You know the one you just did. OK you have a couple hundred you make it to about 300 on a post. Jillian: [00:23:27] Well it depends. Just so you know, a mermaid party. We will get many more. Sue: [00:23:32] That's interesting. Jillian: [00:23:33] So it's very content specific. Sue: [00:23:35] Yeah. Yeah. Jillian: [00:23:37] You know if it's a theme that people love, we can get over 1,000 that kind of thing. Sue: [00:23:44] Right. Right. Yeah. So what is the question you want me to answer for your followers or your listeners here right now? Jillian: [00:23:51] For my listeners is, should people on Instagram be thinking about growing followers? And I think what you answered is, it's really for you in your business about engagement and that if, in fact, you have high engagement, Instagram and their algorithm will go ooh this person's getting a lot of engagement. We should show her stuff to other people. What is engagement on Instagram? Sue: [00:24:15] Right. Well engagement is based on how many saves you get, how many comments you get, how many likes you get, and how quickly they all comment. Jillian: [00:24:23] How quickly they comment once you post? Sue: [00:24:25] Yes. Jillian: [00:24:27] OK. And so therefore for so that's why you were saying it be better if you went through and got rid of the dead weight? Sue: [00:24:35] Yeah. I mean if only you know, that's a lot. Sue: [00:24:38] You know, when you have hundred you know thousands of followers that's weeks and weeks if not months and months of time, and so I just would rather move on. And now I block anyone that's following me. That is just like, Are you kidding me right. You know like it's just I can tell by their profile by. I know. I know my target audience. And if you're someone that doesn't fit it I'm just saying bye-bye I'm not interested in your follow. Sue: [00:25:05] I would rather have the right follower, but I wish I did that long ago. That's that's what I'm saying. Jillian: [00:25:11] That's so interesting. Could we talk about traffic because on Catch My Party. That is our primary goal. But Instagram is not necessarily a great way to get traffic. Sue: [00:25:24] What are you talking about I get traffic everyday. What do you mean? Jillian: [00:25:28] I guess versus say SEO, focusing on SEO or Pinterest drives traffic. Sue: [00:25:35] Well so it sounds like that might be one of your preferred platform. I'm not heavily into Pinterest and I don't pay for any SEO. We get great traffic to our website every day because we use keywords and everything that we do and all of our blog posts and all of our YouTube channels and we know it. What are the right keywords. Jillian: [00:25:51] Right. But in terms of when you are driving people, is the goal on Instagram to drive people to your site? Sue: [00:26:01] Absolutely. Every day. Jillian: [00:26:03] OK. Make sure you have a website, not just an Instagram account Sue: [00:26:03] Because you own it, you don't own Instagram. What if it blew up tomorrow? What if you lost your account because you bought followers. People message me, they buy followers, Instagram is cracking down on anyone with fake followers. They're deleting accounts. They're banning people that are doing bogus things on Instagram and they come crying to me as if I can fix it for them. Sue: [00:26:24] I'm like, you shouldn't have bought all those followers or Instagram knows when to use software you know. So the only thing you have is your website. Jillian: [00:26:34] So what do you think though about people who build businesses on Instagram who don't have a web site? Sue: [00:26:40] That they could go away tomorrow and they'd be up shit's creek if that's what they're relying on and that's why it's so important to have a website. Sue: [00:26:47] I mean you can start a business on Instagram. Many people do. My daughter did. You can start and test the idea you can do market research, but you should always, your goal should always be to get people to go back to your website and join your email list. Period. Sue: [00:27:02] That is our goal every time. You know we have a weekly campaign with our blogs with my social stuff on Facebook. I'm constantly looking to grow my email list and nurture. Sue: [00:27:15] The reason is I can nurture those relationships off of Instagram on my own terms through my own emails. Jillian: [00:27:22] Right. And then how often are you sending emails? Sue: [00:27:25] Once a week pretty much, we are publishing a blog once a week. Again we are in touch with our audience once a week when our list grows daily. Jillian: [00:27:34] Right. Right. Okay now for example then, for you with Instagram. Do you feel ever there's whiplash? How to keep up on all the changes with Instagram Sue: [00:27:45] What do you mean by that? Jillian: [00:27:46] Like they just rolled out IGTV. Sue: [00:27:52] I love it. I love keeping up with all the updates. They're just improving and making it the go to place to be. Jillian: [00:27:58] Yes. Sue: [00:27:59] People have abandoned Snapchat including myself. People that are intimidated with doing a YouTube channel which I'm not and I have one Sue B. Zimmerman you can link the show notes. People can learn from me for weeks there. Sue: [00:28:11] But a lot of people are intimidated with the process of a YouTube channel, and so this is a good opportunity to put up some content that lives on in your channel. How is IGTV different from YouTube? Jillian: [00:28:22] Tell me your thoughts on IGTV and do you think it will rival YouTube? Sue: [00:28:27] No it will absolutely not rival YouTube because YouTube has a website and IGTV is an app. So the SEO is not the same. Jillian: [00:28:35] OK. Sue: [00:28:36] I have content on both. I have very successful IGTV videos, all of them over a thousand approaching 2,000 views. Lots of comments because my content is still consistent to what I do on Instagram. Sue: [00:28:52] We are testing the channel and doing seven different content buckets there and next for our next team meeting we're going to review the stats, the views, the comments, and retention on each one because you can get stats for each one too. Jillian: [00:29:08] Wow. OK so if I'm an entrepreneur and I want to try out IG TV, what would be your recommendation for my first video? Sue: [00:29:19] It really depends. Like that's not where I would start if you're an entrepreneur, you have to understand all the areas of Instagram like we talked about at the beginning and if you're good on video and you are a good teacher and you can keep someone's interest and deliver really good content in a short period, then you can you should create the content that your followers would be interested in. Sue: [00:29:41] Keep a Google doc. What are the questions they're asking you? What are the pain points they're having? Do they want to know the recipe for the mermaid cake? Is there dye in the frosting are you using pearl, you know edible pearls you know, like what are they asking you? That's what you that's what you create. Jillian: [00:29:58] Got it. OK. What accounts do you follow that you go they are doing it right? Sue: [00:30:04] I follow a lot. Everyone listening could go to the Instagram Expert and look at who I'm following. I am right now following under 650 accounts but I'm following them all because they're all amazing. Sue: [00:30:17] And my favorites are brands that I'm very close to the Drybar. I get a blow dry time so I love the Drybar and I feel like I'm walking into the Drybar when I'm there. Sue: [00:30:28] Creative Live. I love their content. I taught on stage there four times and I like supporting them. I like Post-It. Post-It brand is very creative on Instagram as a big brand. Jillian: [00:30:42] Yes. Sue: [00:30:43] They stand out nicely. There's Emily Coxhead. She's got an account which is awesome called the Happy Newspaper and from London it's a real newspaper I actually get it delivered so that's pretty cool. Jillian: [00:30:58] OK. Sue: [00:30:59] Sugarfina is a great account, a candy account which you could learn from. Like if you replicated what they did a lot. They've got the whole party thing going on, but it's with candy. Their accounts are really great. Sue: [00:31:12] I mean I could go on and on but people can just go and look at what I do. Jillian: [00:31:16] Great. Well okay. One last piece of parting advice to people who want to do better on Instagram. Sue: [00:31:29] OK, and the question is? Advice for success on Instagram Jillian: [00:31:32] So that would be to people who are overwhelmed by Instagram. What would you say? I guess you've answered this question, but ok if I were to say back what you're saying and you can tell me if this is correct. Jillian: [00:31:49] Find your lane, be intentional, and you don't have to be everywhere, and interact with the people who are interacting with you. How does that sound? Sue: [00:32:05] Yeah I mean I think people that are stressed about posting, if they spent more time engaging they would have greater success. Sue: [00:32:12] So to everyone listening it's like Oh my god I can't keep up. I got to post something every day. You don't, you just have to post really epic content when you post, not crap. Sue: [00:32:22] And when you post epic content, you will get people interested. If you can't come up with something awesome to post and show up as an awesome person who is engaging. Sue: [00:32:34] I will say this is one of my ninja tips is when you show up in someone else's comment feed and yes you all should turn on notifications on the Instagram expert. That's where on the top right there's three little dots. If you press those three little dots and you turn notifications on. Sue: [00:32:50] Every time I post you will get a notification and so I challenge you to do that and when I post be a part of the conversation. Tell me what you learned from the post. Because I'm always teaching when you, the listener shows up consistently in the comment thread with a real comment that is thought provoking. Sue: [00:33:11] The person commenting below you will see it and if you show up consistently in the right communities whether it's brands, businesses, bloggers, authors that you love and respect you will get their attention because every time you comment, there's a notification that you've commented and not only will you get a notification from the content creator. The people above you and below you. Sue: [00:33:36] People leaving comments will see your comment and if it's really good, they might say wow that was such a nice comments that that person just left. I'm going to go check check that out. Sue: [00:33:49] And that's what people don't realize, the power of the comment is so profound if people just focused on real conversations, Instagram would be so less stressful for people. Jillian: [00:34:03] I love that I love that. Ok you've shared places people can reach out to you. But what is the way the best way to see what you're doing to connect with you? I'm sure it's like to DM you. So what should people do? Sue: [00:34:19] The best thing to do is to literally you know open up your browser, if you're in the car pull over pull over and grab my guide. SuebZimmerman.com/bloggergenius and you will get my free guide that will set you up for success. Sue: [00:34:42] And then you will be on my email list and you will be connected to me via email and you'll get all my wonderful emails and I'm talking about. So that's number one. Sue: [00:34:51] Number two for those of you that are action takers, and I love action takers. Come on over to my Instagram account and introduce yourself on one of my posts and let me know that you came over from this specific interview and you can tag MiloTreeapp. Sue: [00:35:11] Okay so I mean do you personally have an account? Or those are your two accounts? Jillian: [00:35:15] Those are my two accounts. Sue: [00:35:16] Okay so you can tag MiloTreeApp you can let me know that you heard this on this podcast interview and I will come over and say hello to you. Jillian: [00:35:28] Oh that's wonderful. That's wonderful. Jillian: [00:35:31] Well, Sue, it has been such a pleasure. I am a fangirl even though you've given me some some stuff to think about and work on. I so appreciate it again. The more I can learn, the better. Sue: [00:35:45] Yeah well I am brutally honest it's that East Coast Boston persona that I have, met with a heart of love. Jillian: [00:35:53] Of course and I feel it. So thank you. Sue: [00:35:56] Okay good. All right thanks for having me. This is a lot of fun. How to grow your authentic Instagram followers fast and free with MiloTree Jillian: [00:36:00] Are you trying to grow your social media followers and email subscribers? Well if you've got two minutes I've got a product for you. It's MiloTree. Jillian: [00:36:09] MiloTree is a smart pop up slider that you install on your site and it pops up and asks visitors to follow you on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube Pinterest, or subscribe to your list. Jillian: [00:36:24] It takes two minutes to install. We offer a WordPress plugin or a simple line of code and it's Google friendly on mobile and desktop. Jillian: [00:36:34] So we know where your traffic is coming from. We show Google-friendly pop-up on desktop and a smaller Google-friendly pop up on mobile. Check it out. Sign up for MiloTree now and get your first 30 DAYS FREE!

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