Podcasts about developmental model

Today we have couples and relationship therapist, Tom Bruett, LMFT (he/him). Tom specializes in supporting gay men and is the author of The Go To Relationship Guide for Gay Men: From Honeymoon to Lasting Commitment (out now!). I was excited to have Tom on because I want to create more space to talk about the power and complexities of the romantic relationships we pursue in our Second Adolescence. In this conversation, we chat about a lot of the work Tom does with gay men, what couples and relationship therapy entails, how and why unaddressed trauma comes up in our relationships, how relationships can be containers for our own personal growth and healing, and so much more. I so loved getting to connect with Tom and am excited to invite you all into the chat!About the guest:Tom Bruett, LMFT is a therapist, trainer, consultant, and author who works extensively with the queer community. He is the founder of the Queer Relationship Institute, which provides therapy for queer folx and training for therapists who work with queer relationships. Tom has trained under Drs. Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson in the Developmental Model of Relationship Therapy, which he now trains other therapists in. His book The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men: From Honeymoon to Lasting Commitment will be published by Jessica Kingsley in March 2025. In his downtime, he loves theatre, travel, and collaborating with his partner to keep their rescue dog, Millie, from causing too much mischief. Get Tom's book HERE.You can follow Tom's work at @queerrelationshipinstitute and www.queerrelationshipinstitute.com.For more, visit www.secondadolescencepod.com or @secondadolescencepod.

In this first special episode of "So I Married a Relationship Expert", Zach and Laura sit down with Dr. Ellyn Bader and Dr. Peter Pearson, co-founders of The Couples Institute. This conversation dives deep into the dynamics of relationships, focusing on the developmental stages of couples therapy, the power of differentiation, and essential skills to strengthen partnerships. Known for pioneering the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy, Ellyn and Peter share invaluable insights into managing differences, fostering curiosity, and cultivating long-term relationship growth. Topics discussed include: The unique journey of Ellyn and Peter, from their chance meeting to building a thriving partnership and business. Key relationship stages, including the often-overlooked "differentiation stage." How curiosity and resilience are fundamental to a healthy, growing relationship. The transformative power of mini-intensives and two-day intensives for couples, especially for entrepreneur couples. Practical exercises for couples to manage conflict, deepen understanding, and support each other's dreams. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Let's be honest. Building a meaningful gay relationship doesn't come with an instruction manual—or does it? I say it does. Enter The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men by Tom Bruett, the ultimate playbook for navigating love, connection, and everything in between. Whether you're struggling with communication, intimacy, or just figuring out how to meet someone who doesn't ghost you after date three, this guide has you covered. Bruett brings practical advice, expert insights, and a no-nonsense approach to help you create the relationship you truly deserve. Here's what's in store in this episode: Discover the top relationship myths that need busting Learn the difference between problem solving and understanding in a relationship - they are different How to get a relationship that works for you - and that's not being selfish About Tom Tom Bruett, LMFT is a therapist, trainer, consultant, and author who works extensively with the queer community. He is the founder of the Queer Relationship Institute, which provides therapy for queer folx and training for therapists who work with queer relationships. Tom has trained under Drs. Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson in the Developmental Model of Relationship Therapy, which he now trains other therapists in. His book The Go-To Relationship Guide for Gay Men: From Honeymoon to Lasting Commitment will be published by Jessica Kingsley in March 2025. In his downtime, he loves theatre, travel, and collaborating with his partner to keep their rescue dog, Millie, from causing too much mischief. Connect With Tom Website Instagram Facebook Hey Guys, Check This Out! Are you a guy who keeps struggling to do that thing? You know the thing you keep telling yourself and others you're going to do, but never do? Then it's time to get real and figure out why. Join the 40 Plus: Gay Men Gay Talk, monthly chats. They happen the third Monday of each month at 5:00 pm Pacific - Learn More! Also, join our Facebook Community - 40 Plus: Gay Men, Gay Talk Community Break free of fears. Make bold moves. Live life without apologies

Welcome to today's episode, where we're exploring the timely topic of inclusive education. As the new school year begins, many parents and educators are thinking about how to create learning environments that truly support all children, regardless of their abilities. Whether you've already made decisions for your child's education or are still weighing your options, this episode will provide valuable insights.  Our guest, Sharon Lowery, is a pioneer in inclusive special education. She has developed a program that welcomes students of all abilities, with a focus on those who learn and think differently. Sharon's approach emphasizes the importance of meeting social-emotional needs and fostering an environment where every child can thrive.  In this conversation, Sharon shares what an inclusive academic setting looks like, how typically developing students and neurodiverse students can benefit from learning together, and why developing emotional intelligence is crucial in a child's education. We'll also address some common concerns parents have about balancing the needs of all students in an inclusive classroom. Join us as we discuss how inclusive education can create a more supportive and enriching experience for every student.   Show Notes: [2:30] - Sharon describes what a fully inclusive academic environment looks like. All children with all academic abilities are welcome. [3:23] - The program Sharon has developed does put a focus on children who learn and think differently, but all students are included. [4:46] - The program is a therapeutic program that meets the needs of all the children who participate. [6:03] - Initially, Sharon was trained in ABA practices and saw benefits, but then began working with Dr. Stanley Greenspan and the DIR/Floortime Model. [7:20] - By understanding the developmental milestones and social emotional development, we can be inclusive of students of all abilities and meet their needs. [8:14] - Sharon shares the differences between a traditional setting and an inclusive environment. [10:07] - Through this model, developing emotional intelligence is important. [12:38] - Children learn from each other. Typically developing students can model for neurodivergent students. [14:53] - We want to build an understanding of differences. As parents, we want our children to be kind and loving. [16:23] - The gifted population also really benefits from an inclusive environment. [19:01] - Sharon describes a scenario that proved the benefits of meeting social-emotional needs in an inclusive environment. [22:48] - A concern some parents have is that the attention needed for neurodiverse students will take away from the needs of the typically developing students. [26:31] - Being inclusive also means being intentional. [29:06] - Sharon describes the start of a school year and what a day might look like in the Smart Start program. [33:21] - Family tours really help ease the minds of parents of neurodiverse children. [35:24] - The small environment gives students an opportunity for a rich and focused learning experience.   About Our Guest: Sharon Lowery holds a BA in Psychology from LAUSD and an MA in Psychology from CSULA. She has advanced post-graduate certification as an Expert Trainer in DIR/Floortime and is a member of the ICDL Faculty, having been trained by Dr. Stanley Greenspan, the creator of the DIR/Floortime Model. In 1992, she founded the SmartStart Developmental Learning Center, where she has served as Executive Director ever since. Sharon is a recognized expert in Special Education, specializing in a Developmental Model, Inclusive Special Education, and Relationship-Based and Sensory-Based Education, all through 5th grade. Additionally, she is a Senior Level ABA Therapist, having been trained by Dr. Ivar Lovaas, the founder of Behavior Modification/ABA for use with ASD.   Connect with Our Guest: Email: sharon@smartstartschool.com Smart Start School Website   Links and Related Resources: Episode 192: Reimagining Education for All Students with Sylvia Barreto Benites Episode 189: The Private School Option for Kids with Learning Differences with Collette Bowers Zinn Episode 164: 5 Keys to Productive IEPs with April Rehrig   Connect with Us: Get on our Email List Book a Consultation Get Support and Connect with a ChildNEXUS Provider Register for Our Self-Paced Mini Courses with LIVE AMA Sessions   The Diverse Thinking Different Learning podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for medical or legal advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Additionally, the views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are not considered treatment and do not necessarily reflect those of ChildNEXUS, Inc or the host, Dr. Karen Wilson.  

In episode 50 of Dr. Marianne-Land: An Eating Disorder Recovery Podcast, I speak with Dr. Nicole Van Ness, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist, as well as a sex therapist. In part two of this two-part series, we discuss her take on how to get in touch with your body first in a neutral way, which can serve as a stepping stone to feeling pleasure in your body. We continue to explore the relationship between shame and sexuality.    ABOUT DR. NICOLE VAN NESS, LMFT Dr. Nicole Van Ness is a couples and family therapist trained in the Developmental Model of couples therapy. She specializes in sexuality, eroticism, and relationship improvement. She was trained in San Diego, California, and she moved to Texas in 2015. She has her own therapy practice, which is fully virtual, so She can be more accessible. She also has the privilege of teaching as an adjunct at Southern Methodist University (SMU) in Texas. She is a lover of many things: her work, being a mom, building things, challenging stereotypes, advocating for human rights, cooking/baking, and animals.   Dr. Nicole is licensed to practice therapy in California, Texas, and Florida.   You can contact and learn more about Dr. Nicole through the following: Phone or Text: (+1) 858-356-7444 Website: https://connected-couples.com Awesome post interview on my website--Click HERE   INTERESTED IN HANGING OUT MORE IN DR. MARIANNE-LAND? Follow me on Instagram @drmariannemiller In the UK, US, or elsewhere? Chat with me about my virtual binge eating program, called the Elite Binge Eating Recovery Method. Need a place to start? Check out my self-paced, virtual course called Dr. Marianne-Land's Binge Eating Recovery Membership Live in California, Texas, or Washington D.C. and interested in eating disorder therapy with me? Sign up for a free, 15-minute phone consultation HERE or via my website, and I'll get you to where you need to be! Check out my blog. Want more information? Email me at hello@mariannemiller.com

In episode 48 of Dr. Marianne-Land: An Eating Disorder Recovery Podcast, I speak with Dr. Nicole Van Ness, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist, as well as a sex therapist. We examine all things sex and body image, including how growing up in particular religious backgrounds can affect the way you view pleasure. We also talk about how shame and sexuality can intertwine. Plus, Dr. Nicole shares about her research on eroticism. This episode is part one of a two-part series.   ABOUT DR. NICOLE VAN NESS, LMFT Dr. Nicole Van Ness is a couples and family therapist trained in the Developmental Model of couples therapy. She specializes in sexuality, eroticism, and relationship improvement. She was trained in San Diego, California, and she moved to Texas in 2015. She has her own therapy practice, which is fully virtual, so She can be more accessible. She also has the privilege of teaching as an adjunct at Southern Methodist University (SMU) in Texas. She is a lover of many things: her work, being a mom, building things, challenging stereotypes, advocating for human rights, cooking/baking, and animals.   Dr. Nicole is licensed to practice therapy in California, Texas, and Florida.   You can contact and learn more about Dr. Nicole through the following: Phone or Text: (+1) 858-356-7444 Website: https://connected-couples.com Awesome post interview on my website--Click HERE   INTERESTED IN HANGING OUT MORE IN DR. MARIANNE-LAND? Follow me on Instagram @drmariannemiller In the UK, US, or elsewhere? Chat with me about my virtual binge eating program, called the Elite Binge Eating Recovery Method. Need a place to start? Check out my self-paced, virtual course called Dr. Marianne-Land's Binge Eating Recovery Membership Live in California, Texas, or Washington D.C. and interested in eating disorder therapy with me? Sign up for a free, 15-minute phone consultation HERE or via my website, and I'll get you to where you need to be! Check out my blog. Want more information? Email me at hello@mariannemiller.com

Dziś chcę Wam opowiedzieć o czymś, co nie jest wcale nowe, ale nie jest bardzo dobrze znane. A myślę, że jest bardzo potrzebne w organizacjach, które pracują międzynarodowo i w których kompetencja międzykulturowa jest realnym tematem. Chcę wam opowiedzieć o modelu, na którym ja sama opieram się w mojej pracy z grupami i który pomoże wam zrozumieć zjawiska z jakimi spotykacie się w organizacjach, w zespołach, jeśli chodzi o rozwój wrażliwości, rozwój kompetencji międzykulturowej.Będę odnosić się do modelu, który nazywa się DMIS (ang. Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity), czyli nawet nie mówimy tutaj o kompetencji, tylko o pewnej wrażliwości. Z moich obserwacji wynika, że tego modelu można używać do każdego praktycznie doświadczenia, gdzie mamy do czynienia z odmiennością. Dlatego śmiało aplikowałabym też ten model do obszaru zarządzania różnorodnością, inkluzywnego przywództwa, do obszaru DEI - Diversity Equity Inclusion. Wydaje mi się, że zjawiska, które są nazwane w tym modelu, w odniesieniu do komunikacji międzykulturowej, są tak samo adekwatne w odniesieniu do każdego rodzaju różnicy, jakiej doświadczamy.Wpis blogowy do tego odcinka znajdziesz na stronie: www.okrokdoprzodu.pl/069Czego dowiesz się z tego odcinka:Jak przebiega rozwój kompetencji międzykulturowejCzym charakteryzują się kolejne etapy tego rozwojuJakie są wyzwania na każdym etapieJakie emocje pojawiają się po drodzeCzy i jak treningi międzykulturowe mogą pomócJak korzystać z modelu DMISWskazówki dla liderów i HRWykorzystanie modelu DMIS w obszarze DEIGdy będziesz słuchać tego odcinka, pomyśl o osobie, która też wysłuchałaby go z korzyścią dla siebie lub swojego zespołu i podziel się linkiem do nagrania.Przyjemności ze słuchania życzy Monika Chutnik.Chcesz być na bieżąco? Zapisz się do newslettera: www.okrokdoprzodu.pl/newsletter

In this interview, Dr. Ellyn Bader sits down with Eli to describe the evolution of her work as a couples therapist. She also recalls how she and her therapist husband, Dr. Peter Pearson, founded the Couples Institute and the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy, a model that teaches therapists how to diagnose, intervene and significantly help troubled relationships.

Most of what's occurring in the mind lies outside our awareness. In this episode, Forrest and Dr. Rick Hanson explore the unconscious mind and the material we might find there. They talk about what the unconscious mind is, the purpose of the unconscious, repression, bias, and what we can do to access, use, and release that unconscious material. Watch the Episode: Prefer watching video? You can watch this episode on YouTube.Key Topics:0:00: Introduction2:25: What is the unconscious mind?5:35: Why material gets moved to our unconscious mind8:45: Freud, Jung, and repression14:25: Looking at repression through a developmental model18:55: Bias, relational ‘scripts', and what we can do about unconscious patterns21:45: Interpreting dreams, and the limits of science27:55: Examples of repressed material and how to uncover it30:05: Rick's first love story34:20: Emotional release work you can do without a therapist38:00: Distress tolerance42:10: The body-based, non-cognitive nature of unconscious material44:10: Sentence completions, automatic writing, and sand trays47:00: Building self-worth, and creating a safe container54:50: Teaching what you need to learn, and the importance of support57:30: Including what's left out1:00:00: Recap Support the Podcast: We're now on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.New Program From Rick! If you want to break old patterns and step out of the familiar scripts that hold you back, Rick's Change Your Mind online course is for you. It's a 6-week program starting March 18 designed to help you step out of old assumptions and attitudes and into new, helpful thoughts about yourself and others. Visit RickHanson.net/ChangeYourMind to learn more and get 20% with coupon code BeingWell20.Sponsors:This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp, and you can join over a million people using the world's largest online counseling platform. Visit betterhelp.com/beingwell for 10% off your first month!Want to sleep better? Try the Calm app! Visit calm.com/beingwell for 40% off a premium subscription.Connect with the show:Subscribe on iTunesFollow Forrest on YouTubeFollow us on InstagramFollow Forrest on InstagramFollow Rick on FacebookFollow Forrest on FacebookVisit Forrest's website

This week, I'm sitting down with Psychotherapist and Trauma/Addictions Specialist Diane Young, to discuss the impact of childhood trauma and how this often leads to the development of codependent traits in adulthood. Codependency is very similar to other process addictions such as gambling or eating disorders, and often develops as a result of experiencing trauma throughout childhood. In this week's episode, Diane explains the characteristics of a codependent along with outlining Pia Mellody's Developmental Model of Immaturity, which details the basic needs of a child and what happens when these needs are not met. To hear more from Diane you can find her here: Diane Young Website Diane's LinkedIn Diane's Instagram For more information about South Pacific Private you can head to the website here. To follow Ash on IG: @ashbutterss Read Ash's recent blog on Codependency here.

Christa Marvenko-Athas is an AANE certified therapist, licensed to provide therapy in Maryland. Christa also provides coaching for neurodiverse couples and pre-marital coaching worldwide. During this episode, Christa provides so much valuable information about how she uses the "development model" to help neurodiverse couples better understand themselves and each other. More specifically she provides information on: How we need to understand that the only person we can change is ourselves. How to bring up the issue of "neurodiversity" in your relationship, when your partner is not willing to acknowledge it. Dealing with grief because some things in the relationship are not going to change. What it means to take a time out without walking out. The negative impact of creating a parent-child dynamic in your relationship and how to change this dynamic. Understanding how both partners use ineffective behaviors-- where they come from, and how to change them. How to use the "initiator and inquirer" tool to improve communication. What types of defense mechanisms are creating challenges. Understanding and reducing triggers. The importance of expressing empathy and compassion. Understanding what limerance is at the beginning of a relationship. If you would like to contact Christa about therapy or coaching you can e-mail her at: christa@christamarvenkoathas.com ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ If you liked this episode, please subscribe to the podcast so that you don't miss an episode. If you would like to learn more about neurodiverse relationships, please check out: www.neurodiverselove.com or follow Mona on Instagram @neurodiverse_love. If you are interested in joining one of the free on-line peer support groups being offered for the non-autistic/NT partners, please send Mona a DM or send an e-mail to neurodiverselove4u@gmail.com. Mona is also offering support groups for Neurodiverse Couples. Please send an email to get info on the cost & meeting dates. Thanks for being a part of the Neurodiverse Love community! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/neurodiverse-love/message

Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Enneagram teacher, Michelle Wangler Joy (So4), describes the patterns in how our types get stuck in the challenging second stage of intimate relationships. This is the sort of stuff that you want all couples to know. Michelle's synthesis is the best application of the Enneagram to intimate relationships that I am aware of.  Michelle's background [1.05]What is the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy? [2.53]What is Stage 1 of a relationship in the DMCT model and why do we get stuck there? [4.07]What is Stage 2 and what happens then? [4.50]What is true differentiation? [7.00]What is Stage 3 and what happens if a couple skips from Stage 1 to Stage 3? [11.01]How does each type get stuck at Stage 2, and how can they successfully differentiate? [12.15]Does the instinct type matter with these differentiation practices? [41.23]What Michelle's up to [42.34]A list of the self and other differentiation practices for each typeEight: Express vulnerabilities (self) and ask partner what feels supportive (other)Nine: Bring themselves forward (self) and ask questions of partner designed to explore conflict (other)One: Instead of speaking to a partner like a critical parent, give partner data about them (self) and see partner as different, not wrong (other) Two: Get in touch with needs and share them with partner (self) and ask partner about their assumptions (other)Three: Be first and don't rush to problem-solve (self), manage their defensiveness around partner's feedback (other)Four: When communicating, avoid over-identifying with emotions (self), extend self to partner's reality (other)Five: Bring themselves forward and keep partner posted (self) and ask questions of partner, and express empathy (other)Six: Move through doubt and share more (self), ask partner questions and avoid projecting fears onto partner (other)Seven: Initiate negative conversations (self), and sit with partner in conflict, slow down and seek to understand (other).Find MichelleWebsite, https://couplesandtheenneagram.com/ (download her ebook, it is excellent).Link to her Couples and the Enneagram Relationship Inventory (CERI) https://couplesandtheenneagram.com/couples-and-the-enneagram-relationship-inventory/ ***Music: 'Dream Home', Purple Planet Music Stay connected to the Practical Enneagram:WebsiteYoutubeEmail me: rez@thepracticalenneagram.com 

“The father carries the separation function which is very important in terms of progressive differentiation from the mother rather than forceful opposition. It rests on something else that I think that we in psychoanalysis don't take seriously enough - though Peter Blos did when he talked about the isogender attachment. The father also has to be an attracting object to the little boy - not just the separating object, but the attracting object. The little boy wants to desire the father and the love of the father - the whole homoerotic connection with the father, wrestling with the father, touching the father's beard - all the beautiful sensual aspects of the male to male relationships that are inherent in the early dyadic father - son relationship.”     Episode Description: We begin by distinguishing analytic data from social and cultural theorizing. Michael walks us through the early history of psychoanalytic understandings of masculine development. He describes the ‘third wave' of conceptualizations to which he contributed. This  recognizes the formative aspect of the mother's relationship with her internalized masculinity and its reverberations towards her son. He discusses the challenge the little boy faces in acknowledging his gender difference from his mother, a task made more manageable by the dependable presence of his dyadically available father. He presents clinical material that demonstrates the power of the homoerotic transference/countertransference to “activate” a secure masculine identification. This grows into the discovery of “a man's inherent receptivity” which he is careful to distinguish from female receptivity. We close with his sharing with us a bit of his personal history that has led him to be interested in this work.    Our Guest: Michael J. Diamond, Ph.D., is a Training and Supervising Analyst at the Los Angeles Institute and Society for Psychoanalytic Studies. His major publications are on psychoanalytic technique and analytic mindedness; masculinity, femininity, and gender theory; fathering and the paternal function; trauma and dissociation; hypnosis and altered states; and group processes and social action. He has written five books including today's featured book on Masculinity and Its Discontents: The Male Psyche and the Inherent Tensions of Maturing Manhood. His forthcoming book on applied psychoanalysis is Ruptures in the American Psyche: Containing Destructive Populism in Perilous Times. His other major books include My Father Before Me: How Fathers and Sons Influence Each Other Throughout Their Lives My and an edited book on The Second Century of Psychoanalysis: Evolving Perspectives on Therapeutic Action (with Chris Christian). He has a full-time clinical practice in Los Angeles, California where he remains active in teaching, supervising, and writing.    Recommended Readings:    Blos, P. (1985). Son and Father: Before and Beyond the Oedipus Complex. New York: Free Press.    Corbett, K. (2009). Boyhoods: Rethinking Masculinities. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press.    Diamond, M. J. (2004). The Shaping of Masculinity: Revisioning Boys Turning Away from Their Mothers to Construct Male Gender Identity. Int. J. Psychoanal., 85:359–380.    Diamond, M. J. (2006). Masculinity Unraveled: The Roots of Male Gender Identity and the Shifting of Male Ego Ideals Throughout Life. J. Amer. Psychoanal. Assn., 54:1099–1130.    Diamond, M. J. (2007). My Father Before Me: How Fathers and Sons Influence Each Other Throughout Their Lives. New York: Norton.    Diamond, M. J. (2015). The Elusiveness of Masculinity: Primordial Vulnerability, Lack, and the Challenges of Male Development. Psychoanal. Q., 84:47–102.    Diamond, M. J. (2017). The Missing Father Function in Psychoanalytic Theory and Technique: The Analyst's Internal Couple and Maturing Intimacy. Psychoanal. Q., 86:861–887.    Diamond, M. J. (2020). The Elusiveness of “The Feminine” in the Male Analyst: Living in Yet Not Being of the Binary. Psychoanal. Q.,89:503–526.    Diamond, M. J. (2021). Masculinity and Its Discontents: The Male Psyche and the Inherent Tensions of Maturing Manhood. London: Routledge.    Freud, S. (1905). Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality. S. E., 7:130–243.    Friedman, R. C. & Downey, J. L. (2008). Sexual Differentiation of Behavior: The Foundation of a Developmental Model of Psychosexuality. J. Amer. Psychoanal. Assn., 56:147–175.    Glasser, M. (1985). The “Weak Spot”—Some Observations on Male Sexuality. Int. J. Psychoanal., 66:405–414.    Laplanche, J. (1997). The Theory of Seduction and the Problem of the Other. Int. J. Psychoanal., 78:653–666.    Lax, R. F. (1997). Boys' Envy of Mother and the Consequences of This Narcissistic Mortification. Psychoanal. Study Child, 52:118–139.    Moss, D. (2012). Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Man: Psychoanalysis and Masculinity. London: Routledge.    Stoller, R. J. (1985). Presentations of Gender. New Haven, CT: Yale University Press. 

Most of us know something about reproductive health yet almost nobody knows anything about pleasure. Pleasure is frequently associated with sex and like sex, it's an uncomfortable subject to discuss for a lot of people. But it is so much more than that. In this episode, we cover some of the reasons why we don't experience pleasure in our lives and how to work through these complexities of sexual desire in your relationships as Martha Kauppi creates a safe learning environment for this delicate subject. Martha Kauppi is a marriage and family therapist, educator, author, speaker, and AASECT-certified sex therapist and supervisor. She has a lifelong career in health and sexuality and is a senior trainer of the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy. Martha trains therapists all over the world to work more effectively with relational intimacy challenges and sex issues. She is the author of the groundbreaking new book Polyamory: A Clinical Toolkit for Therapists (and Their Clients). (Self-help manual for Strong emotional intimacy.) Check out the transcript of this episode on Dr. Jessica Higgin's website. In this episode 5:04 Martha's desire to educate therapists about sex issues. 14:13 How to enter a space where desire could flourish without feeling stuck in it. 17:17 How multiple systems work together and align in order for desire to happen and thrive. 23:01 Creating a safe haven for creative curiosity, flexibility, and connection. 35:35 Scheduled sex versus goal-oriented sex. 37:49 Some helpful resources to learn more about sexual desires. Mentioned Handling Sexual Challenges Like A Rockstar Polyamory: A Clinical Toolkit for Therapists (and Their Clients) (*Amazon Affiliate link) (book) ERP 287: How To Engage in the Art of Giving and Receiving: Using the Wheel of Consent — An Interview with Dr. Betty Martin Connect with Martha Kauppi Websites: instituteforrelationalintimacy.com Facebook: facebook.com/martha.kauppi LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/institute-for-relational-intimacy YouTube: youtube.com/c/MarthaKauppiLMFTIRI Instagram: instagram.com/martha_kauppi Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship  Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins  Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/ Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins  Twitter: @DrJessHiggins  Website: drjessicahiggins.com   Email: jessica@drjessicahiggins.com If you have a topic you would like me to discuss, please contact me by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here.  Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship.  Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here.  Thank you!   *With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon, if you purchase the book from this link.

How do couples draw the line between business and romantic relationships? Managing a business is a powerful force that can take over the family in so many ways and have a significant impact on the marriage. It's a lot to take in and simply unavoidable. Unlike couples who are not negotiating business, it is critical to provide additional support to couples who are doing business and building a relationship under the same roof.   In this episode, we'll talk about entrepreneur couples and what they're up against. Dr. Ellyn Bader shares some real-life examples as well as some tools to help navigate these challenges. Dr. Ellyn Bader is a psychotherapist and one of the early founders of couples therapy, as well as a recognized thought leader and trailblazer in relationship therapy worldwide.  Through her informal research and thousands of sessions, Ellyn co-created the Developmental Model, a revolutionary approach to couples therapy that is highly adaptable to the complex needs of two people growing, changing, and staying connected in a relationship. Check out the transcript of this episode on Dr. Jessica Higgin's website. In this episode 5:37 Ellyn talks about the first-hand experiences that inspired her to help couples negotiate business and couplehood. 8:09 How to manage couple-time that is off-limits for business talk. 13:14 Six skills for living, loving, and working together: 14:46 Commitment. 19:38 Appreciation. 25:17 Negotiation. 32:34 Decision Making. 44:06 Where to find more information on Ownership and Roles with authority. Mentioned Peter Pearson, Ph.D., Emeritus The Daily Double 30-Day Challenge The CANDOR Solution: The Entrepreneur's Marriage Blueprint Couples as a Team The Developmental Model Entrepreneurs Marriage Intensive Connect with Dr. Ellyn Bader The Couples Institute website Connect with Dr. Jessica Higgins Facebook: facebook.com/EmpoweredRelationship  Instagram: instagram.com/drjessicahiggins  Podcast: drjessicahiggins.com/podcasts/ Pinterest: pinterest.com/EmpowerRelation  LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drjessicahiggins  Twitter: @DrJessHiggins  Website: drjessicahiggins.com   Email: jessica@drjessicahiggins.com If you have a topic you would like me to discuss, please contact me by clicking on the “Ask Dr. Jessica Higgins” button here.  Thank you so much for your interest in improving your relationship.  Also, I would so appreciate your honest rating and review. Please leave a review by clicking here.  Thank you!   *With Amazon Affiliate Links, I may earn a few cents from Amazon, if you purchase the book from this link.

Show Description:Join Lynette and Rich as they explore an intervention model for Autism called The S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach (SM). The model is designed to help you understand, respond, and help those in your world who live a life with Autism. Our goal is to help expand your thinking to better serve these amazing people, and to support you in your daily struggles and celebrations.  In this episode we discuss developmental basics as it affects those on the spectrum. We discuss being intentional in forming your plan for development and your team in knowing where your child is as an individual and forming a plan for SUCCESS.If you or someone you know could benefit from the full training for The S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach (SM), you can take the course online.  Just go to https://www.thesuccessapproach.org/online-course for registration and other details.As heard on the podcast:B-Buzz Baseball: https://www.bbuzzbaseball.org/About Jean Ayres: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Anna-Jean-AyresThe S.U.C.C.E.S.S. Approach is a registered Service Mark protected under intellectual property law unless otherwise specified, all music, audio visual, and proprietary content shared in this podcast is property of AWEtism Productions, LLC and it's sister agency Integrations Treatment Center. The use of this content is unlawful without the expressed written consent of the proprietor.

The CEDR Interview Series on the challenges within Diversity and Inclusion aims to empower society to hold powerful dialogues. We will hold discussions with a broad spectrum of people, each with unique and powerful skillsets and experiences when it comes to addressing issues surrounding discrimination in all forms. In Episode 5, Francine Stock interviews Prof. Milton Bennett, probably THE leading mind when it comes to matters intercultural. Dr Bennett - Milton Bennett - Wikipedia - is the founder of The Intercultural Communication Institute (ICI), a non-profit educational foundation that has operated in Portland, Oregon USA since 1986. He is probably most famous for his DMIS, The Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity (DMIS) - DMIS Model | IDRInstitute - which he created as a framework to explain how people experience and engage with cultural difference. The DMIS is grounded theory; it is based on observations he made in both academic and corporate settings about how people become more competent intercultural communicators. Using concepts from constructivist psychology and communication theory, he organized these observations into positions along a continuum of increasing sensitivity to cultural difference. In an impactful conversation, Milton and Francine explore Milton's insights on polarisation, political extremism, remote teams, conflict resolution of intercultural disputes and how to apply the principles of intercultural sensitivity equally to domestic and international multicultural situations. Most interactions at the national or country vs. country level are lacking constructive dialogue; not enough has been done within countries to reconcile different positions, points of view as well as belief and political systems. This interview series is part of CEDR's not-for-profit Foundation activity which undertakes cutting edge alternative dispute resolution research and innovation as well as addressing key issues facing wider society. If you would like to get involved in this interview series, either to submit a question or be part of the live audience in future episodes, contact Frederick Way, Head of CEDR Foundation at fway@cedr.com.

This episode is with Dr. Ellyn Bader, the founder of the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy. She has been teaching Couples Therapy since the 80s when everyone told her that no one would want that type of therapy. We talk all about Differentiation in this conversation which is about each partner expressing their own needs and wants and being able to listen to the other without judgement or defensiveness. Find out more about Ellyn at couplesinstitute.com Find out more about the Developmental Model at couplesinstitute.com/developmentalmodel The Couples Therapist Couch is the podcast for Couples Therapists about the practice of couples therapy. The host, Shane Birkel, interviews an expert in the field of couples therapy each week. Please subscribe to the podcast for more great episodes. This episode is sponsored by Clearly Clinical Continuing Ed.  Clearly Clinical is the nation's premier podcast Continuing Ed provider, and features industry experts from across the world.  Clearly Clinical is an approved CE provider with the APA, ASWB, NBCC, NAADAC, CCAPP, and CAMFT, and is women-owned, founded by Elizabeth Irias, LMFT.  Clearly Clinical supports minority and women presenters, and donates to  Feeding America.  And the best part?  Clearly Clinical is literally the most affordable continuing ed provider in the country, bringing you unlimited CE courses for just $60 a year.  As a promo for my listeners, you can use the code COUCH to get an additional 10% off.  They have a number of free podcast CE courses, too, including a CE interview with Dr. Julie Gottman.  Check those out at their website, ClearlyClinical.com.  Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle

Understanding and integrating different cultures is challenging and far to often misunderstandings lead to lower productivity in business groups. Where we already face challenge with group work within the same culture, intercultural groups face additional layers of complexity. Prof. Bennet designed the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity. People go through different stages and experiences, when engaged with cultural differences. They move from ethnocentrism to ethnorelativism. From denial, to defense, minimization, acceptance, adaptation, to integration of cultural differences. The further to the ethnorelativistic side of the continuum one gets, the more eloquent intercultural communication skills one develops. The different stages of development describe the perception of cultural difference one experiences. Intercultural consciousness needs to be established among employees, in order to successfully interact in global teams. #podcast #research #performance #leadership #coaching #corporate #success #passion #routines #success #interculturalcommunication #communication #culture #covid19 #womenentrepreneurship #drschwankinsights #drsimonesmindspace #psychology  #zurich #switzerland   @drschwank

When your partner is unmotivated to change and has resorted to stonewalling - or blaming everything on you - what can you do? If you’re a therapist working with a couple in this situation, you’ll learn some valuable ways to directly address this issue and change the dynamics. In today’s episode, we have a return visit from Peter Pearson. He is a co-founder, with Ellyn Bader, of The Couples Institute, one of the leading centers for training couples therapists and helping people find practical solutions to relationship issues. Their book “Tell Me No Lies” describes how to create a culture of honesty in your relationship (and why that’s so important) - while their work on the Developmental Model of relationships gives deep insight into why we do what we do. Today you’ll learn some specific ways to shake things loose when your partner is unmotivated to change (or *you* are). Visit neilsattin.com/institute to join Pete Pearson’s and Ellyn Bader’s free webinars on how to use Confrontation in therapy! And as always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Want something new to entertain you? Acorn TV is a commercial-free streaming service that’s rooted in British television. It’s home to sophisticated and artful storytelling with top-rated mysteries, dramas that pull you in, heart-felt comedies and so much more. So - Escape to Britain and beyond without leaving your seat. Try Acorn TV free for 30 days, by going to acorn.tv and using the promo code “ALIVE” at checkout. Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you. Resources: To join Ellyn and Pete’s free webinar series on using confrontation in therapy with couples, follow this link here. Visit The Couples Institute website to learn more about Ellyn and Pete’s work with couples, and with helping therapists help couples. FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship Or...check out the Secrets of Relationship Communication complete course! Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE) Visit www.neilsattin.com/unmotivated to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Peter Pearson. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out If you’re curious to hear our first episode together, about shaping a culture of honesty in your relationship, you can also check out Episode 24 of Relationship Alive - Why We Lie and How to Get Back to the Truth And you can listen to our second episode together, which was about Relationship Development and getting unstuck in your relationship, if you click here. And here’s our third episode together - Communication that Grows Your Relationship. Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. You know how sometimes it feels like you're the only one who's doing the work in your relationship? And we talk about that a lot on this show, this idea that a lot of times, it only takes one to make a difference. And there are all these ways that you can make changes that create leverage in your relationship and can totally shift the dynamic. You're in a dance, you change your steps, your partner is going to change their steps. Well, sometimes that's true, and sometimes you are with someone who is really stuck or unmotivated, they don't want to follow through with things, they really don't think they need to do anything else because they've already done enough. And in fact, they may even be gaslighting you or blaming you, trying to make it seem like everything that's going on, all the problems that you're experiencing are actually your fault. Neil Sattin: So I thought it would be good to tackle this topic head on. And to do so, I have a very special returning guest today, Dr. Peter Pearson, who along with his wife, Ellyn Bader, have created The Couples Institute. They are leading authorities on not only how to help couples through serious problems like infidelity, other betrayals, trust issues, but also they train couples therapists. So if you are a therapist, you'll definitely want to be paying attention, because today we're going to talk both about how you would approach this as the partner, and also as a therapist, how you would approach it. And by the way, this topic, I had a few ideas that I ran by Pete, and this was one that he suggested, and we're going to tackle it in a slightly different way than usual, where I'm actually going to be role-playing the part of the unmotivated stuck partner, which we were doing a little practice a few moments ago, and it's actually challenging for me, so I'm going to have to muster up my best improv energy to be that partner. Neil Sattin: In any case, we will have a detailed transcript of today's episode, which you can get if you visit neilsattin.com/... Ooh, what's this one going to be? Neilsattin.com/unmotivated. That's what we're going to call it. So if you go to neilsattin.com/unmotivated, you can get the transcript of this episode. And we'll talk about this a little bit later on, but there is a series of workshops that Ellyn is going to be giving for therapists that are all about how to use confrontation in therapy with your clients, how to confront people in general, and then specifically around issues like narcissism and infidelity. And if you're interested in that, you can visit neilsattin.com/institute, as in the Couples Institute, to sign up. And that's free, by the way. I think that's enough for me. Let's dive right in. Pete Pearson, it's so great to have you here with us again on Relationship Alive. Pete Pearson: Hey Neil, it's really good to be back, and I am looking forward to doing something kind of unusual. Neil Sattin: Yeah, me too. Pete Pearson: You get to play the role of a passive or passive-aggressive spouse who believes they've done all they need to do and they're done doing more, which is not an uncommon place for a therapist to deal with. So I thought instead of just me describing how I might respond to an unmotivated partner, that we would actually put it to the test. Neil Sattin: Great. Pete Pearson: And hopefully it will feel more realistic as you do your best job of mustering an unmotivated passive-aggressive person, which goes against everything you teach and preach. Interested in reading the transcript for the rest of this episode with Pete Pearson?  Click here to download the full transcript of this episode!

Rhys Pasimio continues his lecture series in an Overview of Addictions class in a Master in Counseling program. In this lecture, he discusses a variety of theories that answer the question of What is Addiction? These include the Enlightenment Model, Genetic Model, Disease Model, Evolutionary Model, Educational Model, Psychological Model, Developmental Model, and Socio-cultural model. He spends the most time on the Disease Model, examining implications of regarding addicted people as “Sick” rather than merely “Deviant.” This episode of SMART Counsel features the following professionals: Rhys Pasimio – rhys@newpatterncounseling.com Please visit www.patreon.com/smartcounsel to learn how you can support the podcast. Thanks! The Master’s in Counseling program at Multnomah University and New Pattern Counseling present this podcast as a resource for aspiring and current professionals, as well as members of the greater community. The views expressed herein do not necessarily represent those of Multnomah University or its faculty or New Pattern Counseling.

In this episode Dr. Hassink speaks with Ihuoma Eneli, MD, MS, FAAP who is a Professor of Clinical Pediatrics at The Ohio State University College of Medicine and a Director of the Center for Healthy Weight and Nutrition at Nationwide Children's Hospital about the importance cultural considerations in clinical care. They go over examples of how medical care providers can create a culturally sensitive environment for meeting patients' unique needs, and building a lasting and meaningful patient-physician relationship. Website: https://ihcw.aap.org/Pages/Podcasts.aspx Survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/TS7XJZK Resources: AAP Policy: Enhancing Pediatric Workforce Diversity and Providing Culturally Effective Pediatric Care​ - https://tinyurl.com/y75pj9bk ChangeTalk App on Motivational Interviewing ​- https://tinyurl.com/y8uovsy6 Milton’s Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity​ - https://tinyurl.com/yc3yv94v The 6 C's of Developing Cultural Sensitivity (Printable ​Download)- https://tinyurl.com/ybh5a939 Disclaimer: The views, information, resources, or opinions expressed during the Conversations in Care podcast series are solely those of the individuals and do not necessarily represent those of the American Academy of Pediatrics. The topics included in these podcasts do not indicate an exclusive course of treatment or serve as a standard of medical care. Variations, taking into account individual circumstances, may be appropriate. The primary purpose of this podcast is explore common themes related to quality pediatric care from the perspective of clinicians. This podcast series does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. This podcast is available for private, non-commercial us only. Advertising which is incorporated into, placed in association with, or targeted toward the content of this podcast, without the express approval and knowledge of the American Academy of Pediatrics podcast developers is forbidden. You may not edit, modify or redistribute this podcast.

In Episode 18 geht es um dich und um mich und um uns und um die anderen und um … Mit unserem Gast Georg-Christof Bertsch erörtern wir Anderssein, inklusive allem was das für unsere Identität als Person und Firma bedeutet. Wir diskutieren Kulturen als Erwartungsmuster und fragen uns, ob das immer zu Assimilation führen muss oder ob wir uns auch aktiv für Anderssein entscheiden können. Und überhaupt: Wieviel anders wollen Unternehmen überhaupt?  Die Folge in einem Satz: Mary-Jane glaubt wir erkennen uns selbst nur durch die „Anderen“, Human rügt den viel verwendeten Begriff des „Alignments“ und Georg-Christof schließt, man müsse sich Anderssein aktiv vornehmen.Shownotes:Robert A. Heinlein (1961). Fremder in einer fremden Welt. Originaltitel: Stranger in a Strange Land.Robert Levine (1998). A Geography of Time: On Tempo, Culture, and the Pace of Life.Fernand Braudel (2013). Grammaire des civilisations.Niklas Luhmann (2000). Organisation und EntscheidungMilton Bennet (2017). Bennett Scale or Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity (DMIS). https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Milton_Bennett2Matthias Horx. Re-Gnosis. https://www.horx.com/en/author/matthiash/

In this episode with Kimberly Gist Miller we talk about using the Developmental Model in working with Affairs. Many of the clients we work with have a lot of trauma and it is so important to know that history and to know how to work with it. Kimberly Gist Miller is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist in Frisco, Texas, outside of Dallas. She specializes in working with couples, relationships, and infidelity. She is also a trainer and speaker on different aspects of relationships and for therapists. You can find her at myfriscocounselor.com and a_beautiful_marriage on instagram The Couples Therapist Couch is the podcast for Couples Therapists about the practice of couples therapy. The host, Shane Birkel, interviews an expert in the field of couples therapy each week. Please subscribe to the podcast for more great episodes. Click here for more information on the Couples Therapist Inner Circle. Get your free course called Working with Couples 101 Click here to join the Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group Today's Sponsor The episode today is sponsored by Clearly Clinical Continuing Ed.  Clearly Clinical is the nation's premier podcast Continuing Ed provider, and features industry experts from across the world.  Clearly Clinical is an approved CE provider with the APA, NBCC, NAADAC, CCAPP, and CAMFT, and is women-owned, founded by Elizabeth Irias, LMFT.  Clearly Clinical supports minority and women presenters, and donates to the Trevor Project for LGBTQ+ youth suicide prevention.  Clearly Clinical is literally the most affordable continuing ed provider in the country, bringing you unlimited CE courses for just $60 a year.  As a promo for my listeners, you can use the code SHANE to get an entire year of CE courses for just $40.  They also have a number of free CE courses, too, so check those out at their website, ClearlyClinical.com.

In this episode of Better Thinking, Nesh Nikolic speaks with Dr Louise Hayes about using a developmental approach of ACT when working with young persons. Dr Louise Hayes is a clinical psychologist with extensive experience in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) training for young people. She is the co-author of the best selling book Get Out of Your Mind and Into your Life for Teenagers and The Thriving Adolescent. Louise divides her time between training and clinical work in acceptance, mindfulness and positive therapeutic approaches, treatment development, speaking, and writing. Her passion is leading trips to the Himalayan mountains to practice mindfulness. Episode links at https://neshnikolic.com/podcast/louise-hayes

Welcome the Hero Life Podcast.  I’m kicking off the new year with a new long-form podcast.  Today I’m talking a little bit about my story and how I came upon the Hero’s Journey and how it lines up with Carl Jung’s Developmental Model of the Ego, the Soul, and the Self. 3:20 – My Story...Read More

This episode is packed full with advice for how to do good couples therapy. Some of the topics covered are the 6 types of confrontation, rethinking 1st sessions, and how to incorporate attachment theory, differentiation, and neuroscience.  Dr. Ellyn Bader is the co-founder of the Developmental Model for Couples Therapy. She and Dr. Peter Pearson co-wrote the book, In Quest of the Mythical Mate. They were pioneers in the field of couples therapy at the time and have since educated numerous therapists on how to work effectively with couples. The Couples Therapist Couch is the podcast for Couples Therapists about the practice of couples therapy. The host, Shane Birkel, interviews an expert in the field of couples therapy each week. Please subscribe to the podcast for more great episodes. See below for more information on the Couples Therapist Inner Circle. Get your free course called Working with Couples 101 Click here to join the Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group Today's Sponsor The Couples Therapist Inner Circle This is the Membership Site for Couples Therapists. There is a workshop every month on topics like EFT, Gottman, Infidelity, and Working with Sex. Additionally there are regular question and answer sessions and opportunities to talk about cases.

There are ways to communicate that keep you stuck, or that make things worse - and there are ways to communicate that foster the healthy development of your relationship. So how do you avoid the pitfalls, and reconnect with each other in spite of your differences? Or even in appreciation of your differences? In today’s episode, we have a return visit from Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson. They are co-founders of The Couples Institute, one of the leading centers for training couples therapists and helping people find practical solutions to relationship issues. Their book “Tell Me No Lies” describes how to create a culture of honesty in your relationship (and why that’s so important) - while their work on the Developmental Model of relationships gives deep insight into why we do what we do. Today we’ll get theoretical, we’ll get practical, and you’ll walk away with some new ways to communicate about challenging topics in ways that encourage the healthy development of your relationship. Visit neilsattin.com/institute to join their free “What do you do when” 4-part series! If you’re curious to hear our first episode together, about shaping a culture of honesty in your relationship, you can also check out Episode 24 of Relationship Alive - Why We Lie and How to Get Back to the Truth And you can listen to our second episode together, which was about Relationship Development and getting unstuck in your relationship, if you click here. Meanwhile - come see Relationship Alive - LIVE! with John and Julie Gottman, on October 12th in Portland Maine. You have the chance to ask us *your* questions - and get answers. Visit neilsattin.com/liveshow for more information. And as always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Beautiful jewelry, exquisite craftsmanship, sustainable sources, and affordable prices. Get $75 OFF your purchase at hellonoemie.com when you use the coupon code "ALIVE". With free overnight shipping and free returns, you can see something online today, and try it on tomorrow risk free. This episode is also sponsored by Native Deodorant. Their products are filled with ingredients you can find in nature like coconut oil, which is an antimicrobial, shea butter to moisturize, and tapioca starch to absorb wetness. They don’t ever test on animals, they don’t use aluminum or any other scary chemical ingredients, and they’re so confident that you’ll like their deodorant that they offer free shipping - and returns. For 20% off your first purchase, visit http://www.nativedeodorant.com/alive and use promo code ALIVE during checkout. Find a quality therapist, online, to support you and work on the places where you’re stuck. For 10% off your first month, visit Betterhelp.com/ALIVE to fill out the quick questionnaire and get paired with a therapist who’s right for you. Resources: To join Ellyn and Pete’s free “What do I do when” series, follow this link here. Visit The Couples Institute website to learn more about Ellyn and Pete’s work with couples, and with helping therapists help couples. FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict and shifting the codependent patterns in your relationship Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Your Relationship (ALSO FREE) Visit www.neilsattin.com/development2 to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Jeff Brown. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out Transcript: Neil Sattin: Hello and welcome to another episode of Relationship Alive. This is your host, Neil Sattin. On today's show we are going to have a return visit from some of my favorite guests; Pete Pearson and Ellyn Bader. They are here to dive even more deeply into the developmental model for relationships and why it is so important for you to understand where you're at in terms of your development, both as an individual, but definitely as a couple, and also to talk about a new series that they're offering for therapists that will be great for you if you're a therapist in terms of boosting the way that you work with couples in your practice. Neil Sattin: We're going to talk more about that, but I know that they elicited feedback from their audience of therapists about some of the toughest issues that they deal with, in sessions with couples and they put together a free series around that. So we're going to talk about that and we're going to ask them some questions about how to know where you are in the developmental status of your relationship and we're also going to give you a very valuable way to structure how you communicate with your partner around a sensitive topic, something that we haven't covered in quite this way on the show before. Ellyn and Pete have both been here before. If you want to listen to their episode about lying in relationships and how to cultivate a culture of honesty you can visit neilsattin.com/lies. Neil Sattin: If you want to hear more about the developmental model, you can visit neilsattin.com/development. Those are the two episodes that they were on prior to today. And if you want to download a transcript of today's episode, then visit neilsattin.com/... Let's see, what should we call this one? Let's call it development2. I know that was really tricky. So, you can visit neilsattin.com/development2, the number two, and that will take you to this episode where you can download a transcript or you can always text the word Passion to the number 33444 and follow the instructions. That is it for this moment. So let's dive into the conversation with Ellyn Bader and Pete Pearson. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Ellyn Bader: You're welcome, it's always fun to talk to you Neil. Peter Pearson: It's good being here Neil, thank you. Neil Sattin: Yes, and I should know this by now, but Pete, is it okay to call you Pete? Should I be calling you Peter or should I be calling you... Peter Pearson: Pete is fine. Neil Sattin: Okay, great, Petey... So let's start with just this... I want to give a quick overview of what we mean by the developmental model. If people really want the nitty gritty, then you can go back and listen to the first episode, but just so... Just to give us some context, the two-minute elevator pitch, that's a really long elevator ride if you've ever been in an elevator for two minutes. But anyway let's start there. Ellyn Bader: Sure. So we look at relationships, and healthy relationships as going through a series or potentially going through a series of developmental stages and I'm going to give you the really short-hand version of it. But people will meet ideally often they fall in love, they have what I call a temporary psychosis, where they just focus on each other and the grass is green, and the sky is blue, everything is wonderful. And I know all relationships don't start out that way, but many, many do, and others start out more gradually. But the developmental task of that first stage is putting a boundary around the two of us as a couple and making the decision to be a couple, whatever that means to the two of them, but it's a commitment to that relationship. Ellyn Bader: And then after people are together for a while and we see this happening, generally anywhere from about six months to two years, the partner gets taken off of that magical wonderful pedestal, and people start to see their differences, and that's a good thing, that's a healthy thing, it's not a bad thing. Many couples get scared when this happens, but it's inevitable that you're going to see more aspects of the other person. I use a disco ball in my office when I'm talking about it with couples because all those mirrors on the ball represent different facets of ourselves and those facets get shown to each other over time. And so this is a stage of differentiation, it's a stage where differences arise and the task is to learn how to be open, and authentic with each other about what you think, what you feel, what you desire and to be able to hold still while your partner does the same thing, and then to learn how to manage those differences successfully. And so there's... That's a short version. We can go into a lot more detail but basically there's a lot that's going on in terms of the personal growth of each partner during that stage. Neil Sattin: Yeah, so this actually brings up a question for me around this process of differentiation because I think that in that psychosis that you mentioned that often a lot of partners they start making agreements or presenting ways of being that maybe, when it comes right down to it, aren't truly authentic to who they are. They do a lot of compromising, for the sake of the relationship. And then when they come back around to this process of differentiation, there's this sense of coming into integrity with each other and with themselves around what they really want. What are the ways that they signed up for the relationship that actually haven't been working for them? So I'm wondering how common it is for you to see people going through healthy differentiation really getting clear on who they are, on what their authentic truth is, and then looking at the person that they're with and saying, "Wow, I'm actually not sure that we're meant to be together, now that I'm differentiated, now that I'm not in the psychosis, wow there are these things that maybe are... Represent ways that we're not compatible." How do people frame that? Yeah, go ahead. Ellyn Bader: Well of course, that happens, and ideally, probably that happens a ton when you think about people who date and they get really excited about each other and then a few months later they realize, "Oh well, this is not really the relationship for me." Neil Sattin: Right? Ellyn Bader: So there's some of that going on there, it's much... Peter Pearson: Sometimes I will ask a couple because they are challenged when they come into the office and they talk about all the differences that they have and the problems those differences create, I will ask them, I say, "Hey would you like to be married to a personality clone of yourself where all of the differences just magically disappear?" The vast, vast majority of people say, "Actually no, I would not want to be married to a personality clone." And one person said, "I would have all my problems times two. I don't think I want that. Neil Sattin: Yeah, so there is first recognizing the value in the difference, but I'm wondering within there is something about learning how to love another person in the way that they're different from you and to feel like in the ways that it jars you that it maybe isn't in total alignment with what you would want, or who you are as a person, but there's some way to navigate that that's healthy, versus just kind of exploding it into, "Well, I guess we're just not meant to be together." Ellyn Bader: Right, I mean the challenge you mentioned what goes on when people are developing a... What I call emotional muscle or a stronger backbone where they can hold on to their authentic selves, but it also means being able to do what we call other differentiation. It's what enables you to learn more deeply about your partner, be more giving at times when it isn't convenient. But it's not compromising core aspects of yourself. And that's why some couples especially in the differentiation stage, but even later, too, will have a really tough conflict to handle and deal with and some people will want to run and flee really quickly instead of hanging in there and learning how to stay open to yourself and to somebody else, which is something that most of us have never learned or never been in relationships that are interdependent and require you to be open and giving at the same time. Peter Pearson: Actually Neil, there's two examples of this. One is couples will often say, "Well, we don't want to argue in front of the kids, we should have a united front." And the downside... I can understand their intention behind that but the downside is, the kids then do not see how their parents disagree and work it out in front of them and that is such a priceless gift when parents finally get it, "Oh, we can disagree not only in front of the kids, but they can watch how we come to a resolution on that." And boy, if that's not a priceless gift. The other one is just in our relationship, Ellyn between the two of us, Ellyn is a lot more organized. She likes more consistency going through life and I can get a life-changing idea every time I take a shower. Now what could possibly go wrong with that system? Ellyn Bader: Yes so we have to... We've had to learn how to navigate our differences, for sure. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I wish you could see the look that Ellyn gave Pete when he started talking about this. Peter Pearson: But see, here's the key, when somebody has differences is if I have to tone down my life changing ideas, am I compromising a set of values in me? And the answer is really no, it's more like a series of interests, what I'm drawn to, but it's not... I don't organize my life around creativity much more expensive visionary thinking, etcetera. It's an interest, it's a concern, but it's not a core value, which then makes it easy there to create adjustments when there are differences. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I'm wondering if you have any hints on in a circumstance like that, how could I as the person who's thinking like, "Wow, I wonder what Pete's going to say the next time he comes out of the shower." Ellyn Bader: Well, what I... I'll answer that 'cause what I had to learn was how to give him positive recognition for great ideas and still say to him, "Focus Pete, stay focused." Peter Pearson: And then, I had to learn how to hear Ellyn telling me to focus without feeling like I was being controlled. And I also had to learn that when I have a new idea, I will say to Ellyn, "Now wait a minute, this is just a brain storm idea." So if I go to Ellyn and I say, "What do you think about moving to Australia? 'cause I just saw a National Geographic special on Australia." And I say, "Now wait three days from now, I'm not going to want to move there, but let's just talk about it. It might be interesting." Neil Sattin: Yeah, so Ellyn, for you in this... How do you... It feels a little challenging as an example, because it seems obvious how this doesn't conflict with your core values but I'm curious to know how would one sit in a moment of tension and decide, "Is this about my core values?" And that could be true for either person, right, or, "Is this more about something that can be adjusted or worked around?" Ellyn Bader: Well, let me say that I think... First of all, that sometimes people jump to that question that you just put out too fast. It's like the more that I am sure that I won't compromise on core core values, the more open I can be to any of Pete's ideas because I know I'm not going to get completely caught up and swayed and go down certain paths that I don't want to go down. So the ability to really explore the other person's world and the other person's reality, is dependent on how centered somebody is themselves or how differentiated they are themselves. Ellyn Bader: I mean core values tend to be things like, "I don't believe in hitting kids or I'm not going to discipline my children by hitting them," whereas somebody might say, "Well, for me it's fine, to spank, and whatever," those kinds of things you're not going to get a compromise on. Religion is one that very often, you're not going to get a compromise on but there are so many things that people think. One other quick example I had a couple that I was working with, where he desperately wanted to live on this beautiful island, off the East Coast where they built an incredibly unbelievable place that they lived and she wanted to live in California where she had lived before and they were at a stand-off for probably 13 or 14 months about where they were going to live. Ellyn Bader: But I kept saying to them, "We're going to stick with this and find out what matters to each of you so much about each of these places and that there is a solution. I have no idea what it is. You have no idea what it is, but there are core values that are embedded in this that matter to each of you a lot, and that's what we need to uncover to make a good decision," and it's that ability to live in the uncertainty that's so hard that leaves people to quickly get divorced or give up or throw their hands up in despair. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, and so I'm hearing in there like a really valuable question such as what is it about this thing that really matters to you that might help people unearth the values embedded in something like a choice like where to live. Ellyn Bader: Yeah that's the agreement. Peter Pearson: That's right Neil and when you say, "What are the values of that and often there are multiple nuanced layers to that question, but people want to rush to the answer because it creates anxiety or tension to live in that pressure so they want to hurry up and rush to it but there are a lot of nuanced layers to that question, about why something really matters to me. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, awesome. And so that leads me to something that we had chatted about maybe sharing with our audience which is a tool that you use as therapists and it's also a tool for people in relationship around how to communicate around a particularly challenging thing that involves these prescribed roles. The initiator and the inquirer. And I'm wondering if we could just take a few minutes to describe that process, which seems like it would be so powerful for people having that exploration with each other. Ellyn Bader: I'd be glad to... I'd like to frame it first by saying that the most common problem that couples come to therapy with is the problem of saying, "We can't communicate, we have a communication struggle or a communication issue." Neil Sattin: Great. Ellyn Bader: As a therapist, I know that it's not just a simple behavioral change that's going to make them be able to communicate more effectively. And so, the reason Pete and I developed the initiator inquirer process is it is designed purposely to do two things. One is to help communication but the other thing is it does help people develop new capacities, new abilities in themselves that they didn't have before that make them a better communicator. Neil Sattin: Got it, right, it requires you to be more differentiated in order to even engage in the process. Ellyn Bader: To engage effectively, yeah. Peter Pearson: Yeah, in that sense, it goes way beyond just a technique or a tool to talk about things. Neil Sattin: Great. Ellyn Bader: So basically we teach couples two very different roles and when you say... When kids go to kindergarten you learn to take turns, but as adults, when we have stresses, or problems we don't take turns we're both like hammering at each other. And so we divide it up into one person is the initiator and the other person is the inquirer. And the role of the initiator is to bring up one issue and only one issue at a time, and to say what they desire, to say what they feel when they bring it up, and to avoid name-calling, to avoid blame, to any negativity. And then the most important part of that role is to be open to learning more about yourself by the time you're finished talking than when you started. Peter Pearson: Now that's pretty unusual. If I have a conflict with you, I'm not interested in learning more about myself. Ellyn Bader: That explains why it is hard for you to be an initiator for a while. Peter Pearson: Or an inquirer. Ellyn Bader: Yeah, as Pete just said, it's not easy for people who... 'cause it's more natural to just blame and want the other person to change and not be open to learning about yourself. So that's the initiating role, the inquiring role is the role for the listening partner. And when I'm teaching this to a couple, I'll say there are real challenges in this role. The first thing you gotta do is listen, and that means you're actively listening to understand, you're not listening but all the time you're thinking about how you're going to prove your point. So you listen. We teach people to be curious rather than furious. Ellyn Bader: So you ask questions and the questions are designed to have a... Like if I'm asking Pete it's to get a deeper understanding of what he's communicating to me. The third piece, which is really hard but is to respond with empathy and to be able to stay with empathy until you get what we call a soothing moment or that moment of connection and contact where Pete feels like I really get him or I get what he's communicating to me and I've let it impact me 'cause I can be empathic about what's being communicated. Ellyn Bader: And then we recommend a break and then you can switch roles but you don't want to mush everything together so, there's not clarity about what belongs to each person. So that's a quick short hand. We work with continuum so we help people see what they're developing in themselves to get better at it, and... But it's... The process is used by therapists all over the world and it's probably the most widely-used part of our model because they get to see how powerful it is for couples. Neil Sattin: Yeah, so I'm seeing as the important components from the initiator's side being willing to really get to what you want or what your issue is from a self-perspective, so not being in a position where you're blaming the other person, but focusing in on what is going on within you that's a challenge or problem, and... Peter Pearson: That's extremely difficult Neil, what you just expressed right there is to get clearer and clearer about what's important to you and why. And so many people grow up with almost nobody encouraging or supporting the expression of what you want, or why that's important. And so as adults, it just gets layered over and layered over and it's surprisingly difficult for so many people to be clear about what it is that they really want. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and so the flip side of what's so important about this is that the person who's the inquirer, along with the empathy that you named which is clearly really important is this sense of like, "I'm asking you questions so I can understand you better not so I can pin you down, not so I can get my point across." It's not... I'm not asking you questions to make a case about something else, I'm asking you questions that are about really unearthing... Helping you dive more deeply into who you are and like we were talking about before, what it is about this thing that really matters to you. Peter Pearson: And also Neil, what you're saying right there is on that side of the coin, extremely difficult. A lot of people think, "Well, jeez, if I really start knowing what's important to you and why, then I'm going to have to give up what I want or change what I think or change what I feel." And so that feels, it almost is like there's a self-preservation against knowing much more about what it is that your partner wants. They are simply afraid it will intensify the conflict and sometimes it does. Ellyn Bader: But... And getting to that empathy pushes development, it pushes people to get out of themselves and understand another reality. Neil Sattin: Yeah, it makes me think too of your work around lying and your book Tell Me No Lies because this is one of those moments where it seems so important to be fostering an atmosphere that invites truth-telling, so that when you're asking your partner questions they feel like they can answer... Answer you honestly, without being beaten over the head by what they're saying or the person's response. So there's that aspect that's challenging as well of hearing things and learning how to not take it personally or to deal with the emotions that arise when you're hearing things that are challenging. Ellyn Bader: Yup, yeah, I mean relationships are a place where an enormous amount of growth takes place and if you have the expectation that your primary relationship is always going to be easy, effortless, and enjoyable all the time you're in for a tough ride. Neil Sattin: That doesn't happen? [chuckle] Ellyn Bader: Not too often. Neil Sattin: So, you alluded earlier to the series that you're doing, and we've been talking about communication and you said that one of the biggest things that comes to a couples' session is when couples think that their problem is that they're not able to communicate with each other, that all they have to do is learn how to communicate better. And that's one of the topics that you're going to discuss in this five day... Five part series, and I happen to have the list of the other topics in front of me, so I'm just going to name them for people, so that they can hear. Ellyn Bader: Do you want me to do it or you want... Neil Sattin: Yeah, go ahead, 'cause you can probably talk about it with even more intel. Ellyn Bader: Well, yeah, let me just create a context. As Neil said earlier, I surveyed therapists about tough things that they struggle with. And then I wanted to put together this five part... Well, a series of training that would help therapists learn more about what the developmental model can do for them and why. And so I'm doing three live webinars starting a week, starting Monday, September ninth and going through that week. And the first webinar, the point of the first webinar is really clients don't always tell us what we need to know about why they're having trouble. Ellyn Bader: They'll present a problem like we fight about clutter or he's never home on time, or whatever it is, but you don't have a window into seeing their developmental stage and the level of differentiation. And so the first webinar is designed to help you with an exercise that will show you how to see better what you need to know. And I'll be showing a video of a couple that I worked with using this particular exercise. The second day is actually an article and a clinical transcript. And it's about power struggles because so often, people get stuck in a power struggle. Ellyn Bader: And this particular one is a case that Pete worked with and it is power struggling over parenting and how to parent. And then the third one is that we can't communicate. It's a video example of showing how to work with a couple when they come in and they believe their problem is communication and you want to take it further and deeper and more vulnerable and more open. And how do you get there and how do you help them see that it's more than just communication. Neil Sattin: And I just want to mention too that being able to see you work with other couples is so valuable I think as a therapist, and a training exercise but also as a couple being able to see how another couple responds in a similar kind of situation, and how a therapist interacts... Just there's so much juice there, in terms of informing how we respond in a relationship as well, along with how we respond as counselors, and therapists. Ellyn Bader: And yeah and we try to pick some cases that have common problems so that people who watch like you're saying Neil can benefit. In the first case, it's a blended family who are struggling with blended family issues. This case, I just mentioned is one where they say, "We can't communicate," but they've had some alcohol problems, they've had some other deeper issues that weren't on the surface. The fourth day is another article and transcript. And it's with me working with a narcissistic husband who had really dominated most of the sessions and was not somebody who had been willing to look at himself. And so I chose the transcript of a session where I was really pushing him around being open and looking at himself, and not being... Not externalizing everything onto me and onto his wife. So that's the fourth day. Neil Sattin: Cool. Ellyn Bader: And then the very last day is another one that I get asked about a lot and that is in the aftermath of infidelity, you often have one partner who is obsessing about all the details of their partner's affair, and they want to know, "Where did you meet, and where did you sleep, and how much money did you spend?" And that constant kind of obsession it can be very hard to deal with in sessions. And so it's an example of me working with a couple where the wife was doing that and how to turn that into a positive direction rather than having it undermine your work. Neil Sattin: They all sound like super powerful things to witness and to learn more about. If you are interested in participating in this five-part series that Ellyn is doing, are the two of you doing that together or is it just you, Ellyn who's... Ellyn Bader: I'm doing the webinars, but like I said, Pete did one of the transcripts for one of the article. Neil Sattin: Oh right, right, yeah. So, you can visit Neilsattin.com/institute and it's institute because Ellyn and Pete together run The Couples Institute, which is their center for information for couples, for therapists and their training course that they do because they have a big course that they do for therapists to help them learn how to work with couples around this developmental model. Ellyn, can you give us the full name of the course? 'cause it's... It gives you a lot just hearing the name you know what it's about. Ellyn Bader: Sure. Just one thing before I do that, this series that I'm... That Neil was just talking about will be available online until September 22nd. So, if one of your listeners hears this a few days after we've started, they can still sign up and get what they missed up until the 22nd of September. Neil Sattin: Great. And I think it's important to mention too, that this five part series is free. So anyone can sign up, neilsattin.com/institute and you'll be able to get access to these trainings for free. Ellyn Bader: And the name of the course is the developmental model of couples therapy, integrating attachment, differentiation and neuroscience in couples work. And it's, of course, I love doing this training, it's an online program, there's therapists in it from all over the world, coaches too from all over the world, believe it, there's people from 35 different countries. And it's designed to help you learn to benefit from knowing the developmental model and using concepts to get you unstuck and to keep forward progress happening in your couples work. Neil Sattin: So, very powerful and I'm always amazed as even when I re-visit your work in preparation for one of these conversations, I'm always pulling new stuff out and being like, "Oh I know, I read that before but there's another gem of information that... " So there's so much depth to what you're offering and you can tell just from the title of the course that it's very comprehensive in terms of merging development, attachment, neuroscience in a way that's really practical in the therapists or coaching office. Well, I... Ellyn Bader: Thank you Neil. Neil Sattin: One quick question going back to the initiator inquirer model, I was wondering if you have any suggestions for people on how to switch directions 'cause I think that can sometimes be one of the troubles where one person feels like, "Well, I'm always the one who's trying to understand my partner and I want them to understand me for a change." So are there ways that you found that work to invite that switch? Ellyn Bader: Well, first of all, one of the things I like to say to people is that the person who actively initiates the topic and that can be to say to your partner, "Is this a good time to talk?" Or, "I have something I want to talk about." The person who takes the risk of initiating ideally is the initiator. Then when they're finished, you can take a 20 minute break up to a two or three-day break to come back and do the other side. But if there's somebody who's never initiating as their therapist, I'm going to be working with them on what's getting in the way of you initiating because there are many people who are just reactive and they wait for their partners to bring it up, and then they say, "But wait, I want to go first. There is my turn," but they won't do that active initiation. So I try to cut that out by really getting people to take that accountability and ownership to initiate for themselves. Neil Sattin: Yeah, it almost seems like then the real potential issue is helping get the inquirer to really want to sign up for asking questions that are about unearthing understanding as opposed to just reacting responding. Peter Pearson: And ironically, the initiator could say to their partner if this person does most of the initiating, "Honey there's something I would like to talk about, which is, it seems to me, I'm the one who continues to bring up... And it would mean a lot to me if you brought up stuff about yourself for example... And I want to be in the role of listening and being curious and understanding your struggles a little more comprehensively than I do. That would help us, I think, create a stronger union, may be a stronger team and work more collaboratively shoulder-to-shoulder going forth in life. So, knowing more about you, I think could help us short-term and possibly long-term as well." Neil Sattin: Perfect, well I see that we're bumping up against our hard stop for time. And even though I would love to chat with you more, I think I'm just going to have to save my other questions for the next time that we talk. But in the mean time, it's always such a pleasure to have you both here with us. Pete Pearson, Ellyn Bader of The Couples Institute. If you want to take part in their free series you can visit neilsattin.com/institute or to download the transcript of today's episode, visit neilsattin.com/development2. That's the word development and the number two, or text the word Passion to the number 33444 and follow the instructions, and you'll have all the links for you that we talked about today on the show page. So that is for you Ellyn and Pete, thank you so much for making it work today, it's such a pleasure to talk to you. Ellyn Bader: Well, thank you Neil, it's always enjoyable to talk to you. And yeah there probably will be a next time sometime we get together again. Peter Pearson: Yeah, I hope there is a next time, Neil. It's like Ellyn says it's always good talking with you. The time goes fast and I just want to give another shout out to you Neil for all that you're doing, bringing these messages to the professional and to the public lives. So shut out to you for doing all your work Neil. Neil Sattin: Thank you so much, I appreciate that reflection, a lot!

In this episode Leanne Clarkson talks about the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy which was created by Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson. This is one of the leading model of couples therapy and Leanne does an amazing job of describing some of the ways this model can be used with couples.  She identifies the 5 stages of couple's development which include: 1. The honeymoon phase  2. Differentiation  3. Exploration  4. Reconnection and  5. Synergy Leanne Clarkson, MPCC is a clinical counselor and certified couples counselor from the Couples Institute; Bader/Pearson Developmental Model, and an Addictions Counselor in Vancouver, Canada. The Couples Therapist Couch is the podcast for Couples Therapists about the practice of couples therapy. The host, Shane Birkel, interviews an expert in the field of couples therapy each week. Please subscribe to the podcast for more great episodes. Get your free copy of The Comparison of 7 different Models of Couples Therapy. Click here to join the Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group Check out Leanne's website at www.heartsmatter.ca Today's Sponsor Brighter Vision Brighter Vision makes amazing websites for therapists. Go to www.brightervision.com/try/couples/ to get one month free off your Brighter Vision subscription. Let Brighter Vision help you build the practice of your dreams.  

This is a segment of episode #180 of Last Born In The Wilderness “Suspension Of Consciousness: Culting, Donald Trump, & The Voice Of The Gods w/ Milton Bennett.” Listen to the full episode: http://bit.ly/LBWbennett Learn more about the work of Milton and the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity: https://www.idrinstitute.org What is a cult in the literal sense, and what is "culting"? In this segment of my discussion with sociologist Milton Bennett, we examine the hardcore base of support for leaders such as Donald Trump. “Culting,” as explained by Milton, is a very specific form indoctrination, often with a central figure that is actively, whether consciously or not, building an unquestioning base of followers. In the exploration of this topic with Milton, we inevitably lead into his broader work in defining the development of intercultural sensitivity and communication, as expressed in the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity (DMIS). As Milton explains, American society and culture is not, in a general sense, progressing toward intercultural understanding and sensitivity at all, and is in fact moving backwards on the scale, away from the third step of “minimization of difference” (which we have been stuck on, as Milton says) and toward step two and ultimately toward step one — “the denial of difference.” Trump, like all leaders that have engaged in this process, take advantage of the historical and sociological conditions of the societies in which they rise to prominence within, particularly ones that are in a state of crisis, ideologically or otherwise. Professor Milton J. Bennett is the director of the Intercultural Development Research Institute, and is the creator of the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity. Milton is an adjunct professor of sociology at the University of Milano Bicocca in Italy. He holds a Ph.D. in intercultural communication and sociology and a Masters in psycholinguistics. WEBSITE: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com PATREON: http://bit.ly/LBWPATREON DONATE: Paypal: http://bit.ly/LBWPAYPAL Ko-Fi: http://bit.ly/LBWKOFI DROP ME A LINE: (208) 918-2837 FOLLOW & LISTEN: SoundCloud: http://bit.ly/LBWSOUNDCLOUD iTunes: http://bit.ly/LBWITUNES Google Play: http://bit.ly/LBWGOOGLE Stitcher: http://bit.ly/LBWSTITCHER RadioPublic: http://bit.ly/LBWRADIOPUB YouTube: http://bit.ly/LBWYOUTUBE NEWSLETTER: http://bit.ly/LBWnewsletter SOCIAL MEDIA: Facebook: http://bit.ly/LBWFACEBOOK Twitter: http://bit.ly/LBWTWITTER Instagram: http://bit.ly/LBWINSTA

[Intro: 12:40] In this episode, I speak with sociologist Milton Bennett, director of the Intercultural Development Research Institute, and the creator of the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity (also known as the “Bennett Scale”). I was introduced to Milton and his work by journalist Dahr Jamail, after a private discussion Dahr and I had about the dynamics of cults and "culting" within certain political groups, in particular between President Donald Trump and his base of supporters, as explored in Dahr's interview with Milton in the Truthout article 'Is There a Cult of Trump?' What is a cult in the literal sense, and what is "culting"? As can be observed in the hardcore base of support for leaders such as Donald Trump, and other examples Milton is very familiar with, like the Rajneeshee cult in Oregon in the 1980's (explored in the Netflix documentary Wild Wild Country), "culting" is a very specific form indoctrination, often with a central figure that is actively, whether consciously or not, building an unquestioning base of followers. The first step in the “culting” process is to aggressively recruit; the second is control, which “includes specifically controlling the boundaries of the group”; the third step is coercion — “the cult leader always uses the limitation of alternatives as a strategy”; generate a conversion process — “which is a fast, transformative experience, not a long-term development. It is like the scales fall from your eyes.”*; finally, the maintaince of the group after this conversion process is instrumental. In the exploration of this topic with Milton, we inevitably lead into his broader work in defining the development of intercultural sensitivity and communication, as expressed in the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity (DMIS). As Milton explains, American society and culture is not, in a general sense, progressing toward intercultural understanding and sensitivity at all, and is in fact moving backwards on the scale, away from the third step of “minimization of difference” (which we have been stuck on, as Milton says) and toward step two and ultimately toward step one — “the denial of difference.” Trump, like all leaders that have engaged in this process, take advantage of the historical and sociological conditions of the societies in which they rise to prominence within, particularly ones that are in a state of crisis, ideologically or otherwise. Professor Milton J. Bennett is the director of the Intercultural Development Research Institute, and is the creator of the Developmental Model of Intercultural Sensitivity. Milton is an adjunct professor of sociology at the University of Milano Bicocca in Italy. He holds a Ph.D. in intercultural communication and sociology and a Masters in psycholinguistics. *Source: http://bit.ly/CultOfTrump Episode Notes: - Read Milton’s interview with journalist Dahr Jamail in Truthout: http://bit.ly/CultOfTrump - Learn more about Milton’s work at the Intercultural Development Research Institute website: https://www.idrinstitute.org - The songs featured in this episode are “Specters of the Future,” “Variations,” and “Être” by Nicolas Jaar from the album Space Is Only Noise. WEBSITE: https://www.lastborninthewilderness.com PATREON: http://bit.ly/LBWPATREON SHOP: http://bit.ly/LBWmerch DONATE: Paypal: http://bit.ly/LBWPAYPAL Ko-Fi: http://bit.ly/LBWKOFI DROP ME A LINE: (208) 918-2837 FOLLOW & LISTEN: SoundCloud: http://bit.ly/LBWSOUNDCLOUD iTunes: http://bit.ly/LBWITUNES Google Play: http://bit.ly/LBWGOOGLE Stitcher: http://bit.ly/LBWSTITCHER RadioPublic: http://bit.ly/LBWRADIOPUB YouTube: http://bit.ly/LBWYOUTUBE NEWSLETTER: http://bit.ly/LBWnewsletter SOCIAL MEDIA: Facebook: http://bit.ly/LBWFACEBOOK Twitter: http://bit.ly/LBWTWITTER Instagram: http://bit.ly/LBWINSTA

Get your free copy of The Comparison of 7 different Models of Couples Therapy. This report compares Emotionally Focused Therapy, Relational Life Therapy, The Developmental Model, The Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy, IMAGO, Gottman, and Internal Family Systems. The episode today discusses the 5 losing strategies and also 5 winning strategies that couples can use in order to stop feeling stuck. Shane Birkel also gets into how to use the feedback wheel which is a valuable resource for helping couples communicate. The Couples Therapist Couch is the podcast for Couples Therapists about the practice of couples therapy. The host, Shane Birkel, interviews an expert in the field of couples therapy each week. There is an episode released every Tuesday about the practice of couples therapy. Please subscribe to the podcast for more great episodes! If you enjoyed the episode please leave a rating and review on iTunes. Click here to join the Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group Learn more about the membership site for Couples Therapists and get on the list at https://couplestherapistcouch.com/work-with-me/  

As your relationship changes, are things getting better and better? Or have you gotten stuck along the way? If you get stuck - how do you get unstuck? And no matter what happens, how do you foster a sense of collaboration, of being on the “same team” with your partner? Today’s guests, Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson, have charted the course of how relationships develop - in fact, they created the “Developmental Model” for working with couples. Along with practical experience from having helped many couples, Ellyn and Peter are among the leaders in the field of training couples therapists to become more effective. Their book for therapists, In Quest of the Mythical Mate: A Developmental Approach to Diagnosis and Treatment in Couples Therapy is a classic that has stood the test of time - unlike many other books and theories that have come and gone. Today you’ll learn how to figure out where you’re stuck in your relationship, and how to be on the same team as you steer things back in a healthier direction. Also, please check out our first episode with Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson - Relationship Alive Episode 24: Why We Lie (and How to Get Back to the Truth) As always, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this episode and what revelations and questions it creates for you. Please join us in the Relationship Alive Community on Facebook to chat about it! Sponsors: Along with our amazing listener supporters (you know who you are - thank you!), this week's episode has a cool new sponsor with a special offer for you - Songfinch.com. Songfinch.com helps you create an original song as a unique gift for any special occasion. You tell them what the occasion is, what emotions you want your song to evoke, what type of song you want, and give them a little bit of your story - and they bring your story to life with a radio-quality song that captures it all. Songfinch is offering you $20 off a personalized “Song from Scratch” if you use the coupon code ALIVE20 at checkout. Resources: Check out Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson's website Get Ellyn and Peter’s Guide to Super Negotiation for Couples and find out about their other resources FREE Relationship Communication Secrets Guide - perfect help for handling conflict… Guide to Understanding Your Needs (and Your Partner's Needs) in Relationship (ALSO FREE) www.neilsattin.com/development Visit to download the transcript, or text “PASSION” to 33444 and follow the instructions to download the transcript to this episode with Ellyn Bader and Peter Pearson. Amazing intro/outro music graciously provided courtesy of: The Railsplitters - Check them Out Transcript: Neil Sattin: Thank you so much for being with us here today on Relationship Alive. Pete Pearson: It's good to be here, Neil. Ellyn Bader: Yeah, really happy to be with you again, Neil. Neil Sattin: Awesome. Yes. It's been a while since episode 24, which was when we last spoke, when we're now in the 150s here. So ... Pete Pearson: Oh my goodness. Neil Sattin: I know, I know. So Pete, we were just talking, and we were talking about the ... Before we started officially, we were talking about this question about what people do when they get triggered, and you said, "That's not the most important question for people to be asking." And so I'm curious, from your perspective, what is the most important question that people should be asking? Pete Pearson: See, here's what's interesting, Neil. In just about every couple that we see, a couple will get an insight into where they're stuck, how they're stuck, and why they're stuck. And the next question almost inevitably is, "Well, what do we do about it?" And that's an understandable question. And I used to think, "Oh, they're asking me for advice. I'll give them advice about what to do right now." And then they will leave, they will practice what I just expressed, they will come back, and they will be on bending knee thanking me for my wisdom, intelligence, smarts, etc. Pete Pearson: What I discovered is, and they say, "God you're so wonderful, what other advice do you have? And we're gonna tell all our friends about you, because you're so smart. " Well what I discovered was, it didn't happen that often. But yet they asked, "What do we do about it?" And then I discovered, the what do we do about it is a good question, but it's a premature question. Really the question that comes before is, "How motivated are you to do something about it?" See, it takes a strong motivation, a bigger picture that pulls us forward, and that bigger picture, that stronger motivation is what allows us to unhook from those triggers. And if the motivation is puny, then no matter what I say that could be effective, will not be applied. Neil Sattin: Yeah, we had David Burns on the show, and he was talking about how surprised he often is that when it gets right down to it, a lot of couples that he's worked with, actually aren't willing to change. Even though they are coming to couples' therapy, they would prefer being stuck where they are, versus whatever's required to change the direction. Pete Pearson: Well I think that's true for one part of them. Here's what I mean. And I think the dilemma of change was summed up brilliantly by James Baldwin, the playwright and writer, when he said, "Nothing is more desirable than to be relieved of our affliction." And that's the motivation that brings couples into therapy. "Nothing is more desirable than to be relieved of our affliction, and nothing is more terrifying than to be divested of our crutch." And that I interpreted as, "nothing is more terrifying than to be divested of our coping mechanisms. Our self-protections." Pete Pearson: So couples are in a terrible bind. They want to be relieved of their affliction, yes, and it's terrifying to be divested of their coping mechanisms. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and you speak also in your work about the importance of both people recognizing that there's something in it for them, whatever it is they're experiencing. I'm thinking right now of the example you give of people, and we'll explain this a little bit more as we go, but people who are in a symbiotic and practicing relationship. Where one of them is working to be more independent from the other, and the other one is like, "No, come back here. Be with me." And it creates all of this tension and conflict and it's easy for the practicing partner to overlook the fact that they actually benefit a lot from that symbiotic welcome home, that they get from their partner, even though it's confounding them in their quest for independence. Pete Pearson: Ellen, you want to speak to that? Ellyn Bader: Yeah, but I'm not sure what the question is. I can speak about that type of couple, but Neil, did you have a question there? Neil Sattin: Yeah, good point. So the question in there, I think it was more of an observation that this is a situation where people are invested in the problem, or invested in the crutch as Pete was talking about. Maybe the question is, what are some strategies you have for helping people become aware of their role or of the crutch that they have in the moment, even if they think, for instance, that something is all about their partner's problem? Ellyn Bader: So I think what you're asking is, first of all, at least to me it's like, how does a person take a look at what they're doing that's getting in their own way, and can you get some acknowledgement that a particular thing somebody is doing, is actually getting in their own way of being able to realize the dreams that brought them together or being able to accomplish something they want to accomplish. So there's the question of, "Okay, what are some things you do to help somebody realize it?" So that's one piece. Then the second piece is what Pete was talking about, is "Can you lay out what it's going to take to change it, and then increase motivation? Or is there motivation to actually do the work or put in the effort." And then certainly you want the couple to be able to collaborate and work together on that process of change, so that they are reinforcing each other as they go through what is challenging and difficult for them to do. Ellyn Bader: So when you can get all three of those things really solidly in place, you're gonna have a couple that's motivated and working with you in the therapy process. When any one of those things, is missing, you're gonna have a much harder time, and therapists often report having sessions that are repetitive and seem to go nowhere and the couple comes in week after week with the same fight or the same dynamic. So I think you have to look at all three of those, and make sure that you've got them all in place. Neil Sattin: Yeah, where do you feel would be a great place to start? I mean, what's popping into my mind immediately, is your concept of developing a strong future focus for a couple, based on where they are developmentally? Pete Pearson: See, that's an important place when we start to figure out the steps for change. But to get people to own their part, I find now is, what I do in the first 10 or 15 minutes of the first session, is to have people own their part. But I do it in a rather indirect way. It's like it's traditional for most therapists, when a couple comes in for the first session to ask, "Why are you here," or "How can I help?" And at that point most couples launch of barrage of cross complaints about, "Well, I'm here because my partner is insensitive. They're a slob. They're not affectionate. They're not responsible. They don't follow through." Etc., etc. And so they trade blames. Pete Pearson: And then after a few minutes, everybody in the room is feeling miserable, I know that because I've been there so many times. And then I found there's a much better way to get to the bottom of what they struggle with without any blame at all. And I will say to them, "It's typical for most therapists to ask when we start the first meeting, is to say, 'why are you here?'" I say, "I don't want to do that, because it just ends up everybody blaming everybody. So what I'd like to do is ask you guys a diagnostic question, and it lets me know how well you've been listening to each other. Which also lets me know how hard you're gonna have to work in here. So Joe, tell me what do you think are Sue's major complaints about you are? And Sue, what do you think Joe's major complaints about you are? And it doesn't matter who goes first, because you both get a chance to express that." Pete Pearson: And at that point, Joe will say, "Well Sue will say that I'm too preoccupied with my devices. I don't spend enough time with the family. I don't call if I'm gonna be home for work. I just, and I want affection without being nice during the day or the evening, and ..." And then I'll say, "Oh, man, those sound really good, Joe. What else?" And he says, "Well, I think she thinks I'm not very careful with money." Well I'll say "Dynamite. Those are good. Joe, how confident are you on a scale of one to ten that Sue's gonna say you nailed it?" Joe'll say, "Well about a seven or eight." And then I'll say, "What those complaints you just mentioned, is there some legitimacy to her complaints?" And he'll say, "Well, yeah." But I don't go into detail. Pete Pearson: See at that point, and then I'll say, "So Sue, how good has been doing?" "Well he's been listening, and frankly, I think he's listened better than I thought. I'd give him about a seven or eight on that or maybe even a nine." "Sue, do you have any appreciation for Joe, listening so well to you? Now why hasn't he done anything is why you guys are here. But is there a part of you that appreciates that at least he's been listening?" And she'll say, "Well yeah." "Well tell him." "Joe I didn't know you listened so well. Thank you for listening." Pete Pearson: So instead of being defensive, now they're collaborating and giving each other compliments, and each of them, when they do that, have just laid out what the problems are by owning their stuff instead of having their partner do it for them. Almost nobody Neil, nobody wants to meet somebody and within 10 minutes start being ripped by their spouse about all their flaws and faults. All that does is create shame, embarrassment and guilt. But doing it this way, people claim their stuff for themselves, I don't have to work as hard, I get to understand the problems, and the atmosphere in the room is a whole lot better. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I can see how that would get things started off on the right foot. Both with giving you a sense of what's going on for them, and how well they listen, and also, the degree to which they're able to see their part or take responsibility for at least what they think their partner is complaining about with them. Pete Pearson: Exactly. And that can only be done in the first 20 minutes. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah. That's perfect. I'm curious. Do you still ... You talk about the paper exercise in your book, The Inquest of the Mythical Mate. Do you still do that exercise with couples? Ellyn Bader: Actually, you're right where I was gonna go. Because that exercise is an absolutely fabulous exercise. In five minutes a therapist can see and then can help feedback to the couple where they break down. It's an exercise that's designed to help you and couples ... And a concept the we talk a lot about is the concept of differentiation. And basically, the way the exercise goes is the therapist hands the couple a piece of paper and asks them to hold it between them, and gives them up to five minutes to decide who gets to hold the paper without ripping or tearing it. They can do it verbally, they can do it non-verbally, they can do it anyway they like, but at the end of five minutes, decide who has the paper. Ellyn Bader: And then you get to sit back as the therapist, you get to sit back and watch for five minutes, and then in watching, you're going to be giving the couple feedback about how they do. And the exercise, I can give you a few highlights right now. It's a very wonderfully sophisticated exercise for getting to leverage stuck places in couples' relationships. But I mean, you're looking for whether people self-define. Whether they avoid conflict. Whether they're able to go into the conflict. Whether they have skills to negotiate and move a conflict forward. Ellyn Bader: And so when you can talk to a couple about, "Hey, here's what I saw. Does this make sense? Here's what I think each of you did that was positive and great and effective, and here's where I think you're stuck, or here's where I see you getting stalled. And usually what you see in terms of how couples are getting stalled in that exercise, are similar to what they do at home, that prevents them from solving problems or sets them up to be angry at each other. And it's a very not-threatening, very sort of collaborative process that you can get into with couples when you do that exercise with them. Neil Sattin: Yeah, and what I loved about reading your book, was not only the recognition that I had about, "Oh, okay. Yeah. I recognize having been in a relationship that was stuck in this place or that place," and let's, before we go too much further, we'll define them so that people know what we're talking about. But I also love PART 1 OF 3 ENDS [00:17:04] Neil Sattin: how, I think it's easy to, let's say, someone here says, "Well, I'm going to try that with my partner. Let's grab this paper and see if we can figure it out." And then for some reason they can't or they have a huge eruption or at an impasse to feel like, "Wow, we must be really horrible as a couple because we couldn't even do this paper exercise right." Neil Sattin: But what I love is that it just is simply a way of getting insight into where you are, but that each place where you might be stuck simply represents a place where you need to grow and growing past that place gives you a pathway to a new level of intimacy and being able to handle conflict better and being able to stand really strongly in who you are while still enjoying intimacy with your partner. Ellyn Bader: Oh, absolutely and one of the things that I think is so valuable about it is that it's easy when you're in the midst of it with your partner and you're like going home after work and you're having fights or you're not getting along well on weekends or you're fighting over disciplining the kids. It's easy to think you have a whole lot of problems, but when you can find the leveraged place, the place that repeats, and you learn how to do that differently, then you start doing it differently in all the different areas that you have conflict. So you don't actually always have to go back and solve every single problem that you think that you have if you change the process of how you talk and the process of how you approach things that are stressful. Neil Sattin: Yeah. That makes perfect sense. How much do you feel like awareness, before we dive into it, briefly, of the developmental model, how much do you think that awareness is helpful for a couple to be able to see, like, "Okay, this is the span of how couples develop looks like and this is where we're at." Is that enlightening or confining? From a couple's perspective versus the therapist's perspective. Ellyn Bader: I can tell you what the therapists in my online training program report. And so, I have therapists who work with me, basically, who are in countries all over the world and many of them report that their clients feel relieved when they see the process. We have little brochures that we use and that a lot of therapists give to their clients which layout the stages and sometimes they'll send a couple home to look at it and figure out where they are. Sometimes they'll just talk about it. But when couples can see, hey, there is kind of a normal progression that a lot of relationships go through and either we're right on track, which is sometimes the case, or hey, we got stuck here and this is what our challenge is so that we can move forward. And what we always say is, when couples get unstuck, then they can get back into their own developmental process. They don't need a therapist all the way through their whole development. Neil Sattin: Right. So, would you be willing, or I could do this too, but because I don't want to put you on the spot completely, but to give sort of the two to three minute overview of, what are we talking about, the developmental stages that a couple goes through? Ellyn Bader: Pete, do you want to do it or do you want me to do it? Pete Pearson: Go ahead, Ellyn. Ellyn Bader: Okay. So, the quick version is, two people meet, they fall in love. In the ideal world, everything is beautiful, wonderful. They have that incredible falling in love period, which I sometimes call a period of temporary psychosis. But it's a period in which there's bonding and attachment and not everybody starts that way, but a lot of couples do. And then it's normal by about two years into the relationship, sometimes a little sooner, sometimes a little longer, but it's very, very normal to hit a period of disillusionment when the partner is taken off that pedestal and instead of being seen as wonderful, all of a sudden the flaws start to show up and that disillusionment period is normal. Ellyn Bader: And then what people have to contend with is, how do we work out who are you and who am I given that we not only have parts of ourselves in each other that we love, but parts of each other that we find sometimes disgusting or we don't really want to be around or we don't like and that's all normal. But what's hard for couples is to learn how to manage those differences effectively instead of ineffectively. When they handle it ineffectively, they start to blame, accuse, or withdraw and then they get into some negative patterns. Ellyn Bader: So the second stage of relationship is the stage of differentiation. It's a stage in which partners do learn how to come to terms with their differences. When that goes well, actually people are able to have a lot more independence than they had in the first two stages because there's a base of connection and a base of, hey, we know to solve things. We solve them well. And then they can be out in the world more. They can be doing more independent things, enjoying other things that they're bringing back to help nourish the relationship, and so there's often a period in which that can go on for many, many years in which each partner is developing their own self-esteem apart from how the relationship is fairing. Ellyn Bader: And then at some point often there's a period of reconnection or of returning to the relationship as a source of greater nurturance and often couples at this time tend to focus more on their sexual relationship or on different aspects of intimacy when they're reconnecting. And many couples who get through all of this end up wanting to create something together and so we even talk about a last stage being a synergistic stage. A stage in which one plus one is really greater than two and they support each other in ways or goals or projects that are meaningful to both of them. So that's a very quick version of sometimes what I teach in a whole morning. Neil Sattin: That was great. And I'm thinking back to how you mentioned that you're working a lot with entrepreneurial couples these days and I'm curious to know how you draw distinction between couples who are working together from a synergistic place that one plus one is more than two, versus couples who are coming at that from a more enmeshed place where they're not ... It's about just not being able to be without each other. Pete Pearson: I guess, that gave me, what a great question. If couples want to start working together and they haven't been able to work out yet how to manage their differences or their disillusionments, boy, are they in for a wild ride. If you think about all the different areas of interdependence that couples have when they're not even working together, where they have areas of interdependency, our family and friends and finances and fitness and food and fidelity and faith and man, there are a lot of F words in an interdependent relationship. Pete Pearson: And each one of those areas require a set of negotiation problem solving skills and working together. And then you add all those areas of interdependency with all the areas of interdependency at work, when they're working together. What could possibly go wrong? So, the problems just are geometric when you work with your partner, your spouse, and yet, more and more couples are working together. There's a lot of entrepreneurs out there on the internet or doing franchise operations and their spouse is involved and that just really doubles the opportunity to collide. It also doubles the opportunity to synergize your strengths and abilities. Pete Pearson: So, it really, the push and pull is enormous to deal with the differences and it's ... Sometimes I will say, I will ask couples, "Would you want to be married to a personality clone of yourself?" Most couples say no. And I'll say, "Well, why is that?" And the category it's generally falling to, "Well, if I'm married to a clone of myself ... If I married a clone, it would be like World War 3." Or, "If I married a clone of myself, it'd be really interesting, but nothing would get accomplished." And as one woman said, "I would have all my problems times two." Pete Pearson: And so the good news is, they're smart enough to know that differences can enhance a relationship, but the same differences can also corrode a relationship, but we want to marry somebody who is different. And that's the good news and the bad news. Neil Sattin: Yeah. I'm just thinking too about how time, being such a limiting resource in many respects with everything that people are trying to accomplish in today's world and so I could see that providing incentive for people to want to work together as a way to actually maybe be able to spend more time together. Pete Pearson: Right. Neil Sattin: And yet, from what you're saying, I also gather, like, wow, it is so important in that case to be able to identify, oh, here we are not handling conflict very productively and here are all the signs of that. Whether it's increased resentment or increased ... Just increased conflict that gets explosive versus actually resolving. And that comes from what you were talking about, right Ellyn? That sense of, have you differentiated effectively enough so that you can stand in who you are, but actually meet the other person as a whole person unto themselves and have a collaborative way of being on the same team as you navigate those places where you're not in alignment. Ellyn Bader: Yeah. One of the things, Neil, that I find really interesting, as I said, I've started doing some more work with entrepreneurs and their spouses and particularly, I love working with the couples who are fairly new to going into business together because one of the things that they know they have a ton at stake because if they don't make it, their business is going to have problems or have to be split up as well as their marriages or their committed partnerships. And so they actually have, in some cases, a much higher motivation to get it right at the beginning, and also sometimes it's easier for people to get the concept that in business, our roles and responsibilities need to be really clearly defined. Ellyn Bader: And that's also true on the home front with a lot of couples, but couples don't tend to think about it that way, they tend to think about it as, well, if our relationship is good, everything will just go smoothly and we can move back and forth smoothly. Neil Sattin: Right. It all just works itself out. Ellyn Bader: Exactly. And so they know- Pete Pearson: That's the hope. Ellyn Bader: Right. That's the hope and the belief that it should be easy. But yet, when you have clearly defined roles, it mitigates a lot of conflict. Ellyn Bader: Here comes our gardener making some noise I'm sorry to say. Neil Sattin: I can hear it, but it's so faint in the background and you're coming through so loud and clear that as long as you're able to concentrate, then I think we're good. Ellyn Bader: Okay. Neil Sattin: Yeah. So, I love that. So, one potential option if you're having trouble motivating to actually change is to start a business together. Ellyn Bader: Well, except if your relationship is a mess, it's not a great time to start a business together. Pete Pearson: You'll have all your problems times two. Neil Sattin: Just kidding. But it does bring us back to that question of how you get people to buy-in. To like ... Okay, this is actually going to require something of me to create change in our relationship. Ellyn Bader: Yeah, and most people who have worked in the workplace understand that there are different roles and responsibilities that come with a job and they've been in jobs where they've had people on a team who are doing different aspects of the work. And so they've had that experience and it makes logical sense. But then when they go home and they think, there's just two of us, they don't think about saying, okay, who's responsible for organizing childcare? Who's responsible for our finances or is somebody paying the bills and somebody else doing the investments? Who's responsible for cooking dinner on Monday, Wednesday, Friday or Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday or does somebody always cook and somebody always clean up? And they get into patterns, but often it's not really clearly delineated. Neil Sattin: Right. So, is there a process that, if I'm listening to this and thinking, "Oh, you know, some of those things we haven't actually figured out," or "I wonder if we've differentiated effectively?" How could I diagnose myself or our relationship to know if that's happened or not? Pete Pearson: Well, the easy way to know that it's happened, Neil, is, what does my partner do that annoys me? And when you start from a place of, what does my partner do that annoys me in what area of stuff around the house, I would bet that it's because you haven't clearly delineated and agreed upon the roles and responsibilities of that area. Couples kind of normally fall into those patterns in kind of like happenstance, but there's a lot of slippage and a lot of boundary confusion or unclarity about who is really responsible for what and who gets the deciding vote in that area. And that's when our annoyances almost always come from expectations, "My partner's not meeting my expectations." So, the annoyances have to do with expectations of partners that haven't been clarified very well or agreed upon. Neil Sattin: Yeah. Or assumptions that you're making. Pete Pearson: Assumptions, yes. Neil Sattin: So, I'm curious for couples who say, think, "Well, generally it works out okay, but when we try to have that conversation, it doesn't go so well, like either ... That could be an explosive argument, or it could be I just always have to give in, because we can't have that conversation. What are some ways that you offer couples to help them have that conversation in a way that's more generative, and you talk about ... I think you talk about fighting fairly or conflict ... I can't remember the exact phrase that you use, but agreements around how you have conflict. Ellyn Bader: Well, before we even go there, let's say that when couples are trying to negotiate, they make some mistakes. One of the big mistakes that people make is caving in too quickly and they don't realize that when they hit that place of tension, that's actually the place where it's important to stay with it a while longer and figure something out and not see that tension as something bad, but see that tension as where their growth edge actually is. Ellyn Bader: And so, it's a long story, and we won't go into all the details, but Pete and I talk about many years ago, when we ran workshops together, how we reached a point of conflict, and where we each wanted something very different and it took a full year to sort it out and a full year of actually having to work with the tension, until we came to something that worked for both of us and enabled us to keep working together, because otherwise we would've had too much conflict and not been able to continue working together, running workshops together. People think they should get through stuff faster sometimes than is actually possible. Ellyn Bader: The process of getting through it is a process where both you get to know yourself better, and you get to know your partner better, if you can stay curious about why something matters to your partner, stay curious about why is it so important to you, learning how to ask really good questions, learning how not to cave too fast. There's many different capacities that are involved in successfully differentiating and successfully managing conflict that get strengthened. The emotional muscle gets built as couples go through that together. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, so I could almost see, like for instance, if you sense that your partner is just caving in, because you've hit that point of tension, to have the willingness to say, “No, I don't want to just get my way here. Let's figure out a way to have this conversation, as long as is required.” Ellyn Bader: Right, right, and you know, people who tend to be very active and assertive often end up with partners who are a bit more passive than they, themselves, are and for a while it may work to let the more passive person just cave in, but then, over time, instead of having clear roles and responsibilities, what you actually have is the active person doing way, way, way, way more, and the other person doing less, and resentment building. You need to be able to stop that caving in process early. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, what's ... Maybe we could talk briefly about a structure that could be helpful for people, when they realize they're at this place, a point of tension that's where they tend to get stuck. What might- Pete Pearson: Hey, I have an ... Ellyn, I have an idea. Neil, if we could post somewhere, where your listeners could go to and get a four-page document called, “Super Negotiation for Couples.” Neil Sattin: Love it. Pete Pearson: It's a really step-by-step process for how to negotiate and how to avoid the two big problems of negotiation, which is either caving in too quickly or pushing yourself too hard to get what you want, at the expense of the other. I can give you a link where your listeners could go and get that document. Neil Sattin: Yeah, that would be great, if it's easy. We can always post it in the transcript of the show, as well. Pete Pearson: That would be great, but very quickly, and then we'll send you the link, and it could be posted in the transcript. It's couplesinstitute.com/blog, and then in the blog, it's Super Negotiation for Couples, couplesinstitute.com/blog, and the blog is “Super Negotiation for Couples.” It's four pages, which is really good, a step-by-step process to lead you through what can be negotiated, and, interestingly enough, what cannot be negotiated, and even more importantly, how to prepare ahead of time to make an effective negotiation. Neil Sattin: Great. I can already envision enlisting Chloe and doing it experimentally and recording ourselves for the podcast- Pete Pearson: Oh, cool! Yeah. Neil Sattin: So that you can hear us live going into negotiating or not, something really sensitive for us. Pete Pearson: Oh, that would be interesting. Neil Sattin: Yeah, yeah, totally. I appreciate your sharing that link, and we will definitely have a direct link to that in the transcript and show notes, as well. Pete Pearson: Terrific. Neil Sattin: I guess that saves us from having to go through the whole thing here. Pete Pearson: Right. Neil Sattin: One thing that I want to touch on is when people get into relationship and, Ellyn, you mentioned, very often, not always, but very often there's that initial falling in love or that feeling of merging, or we're the same, or we're meant for each other. This is perfect. Then the disillusionment happens, where you start realizing the person isn't perfect. Yet, towards the end of the developmental process, when you're actually in that place of synergy, I don't think you're going to feel like you're the same again, but you will feel an intense level of intimacy and closeness that, in some ways, is at least a variation on the theme of that kind of intimacy that you experience at the very start of your relationship. Neil Sattin: I want to bring this up, because I feel like, so often, the struggle for people is wanting to hang onto what they experienced at the very beginning out of fear of moving like that, in the differentiation process, they're going to lose each other. How do you keep people connected, while they're differentiating? Ellyn Bader: First of all, one of the ways that I explain this, and I think it's a visual that people really get, is you know the disco balls that have mirrors all around them? Neil Sattin: Yes. Ellyn Bader: I keep a disco ball in my office. What I say is a disco ball represents each person, and all the mirrors on the ball are different facets of yourself. When you two met and fell in love, the disco ball mirrors that were facing each other or were setting each other off, and you were falling in love, and all the brain chemicals got going, are those places where you really felt like you were the same, like you were meant for each other, like everything was just perfect. Ellyn Bader: Well, because everybody has so many different facets of themselves, it's inevitable that those balls are going to spin. There's going to be a period in which the ones that are facing each other are actually the ones where you don't get along so well, or you're not the same, and where you have growth that needs to take place, in order to keep the connection. Over time, the balls are going to continue to spin, and you will learn things that will deepen your connection and, actually, the kind of intimacy that most couples experience when they get to the other side of that is a kind of intimacy that feels more real and more grounded than that super-exciting, temporary psychosis that went on at the beginning. Neil Sattin: Yeah, I mean the disco ball isn't terribly effective when it stays in one place. It needs to spin for- Ellyn Bader: Exactly. Neil Sattin: Yeah, it makes a ton of sense. Ellyn Bader: Now, and a relationship needs juice. It needs energy, and some of that energy comes from the differences, as well as from the similarities. Neil Sattin: I suggest that you, at home, you pick your favorite disco tune, and you can hum it to yourself when you're in a moment of uncertainty about the direction that you're headed. I'm already getting it might be the night fever, we know how to go it. Pete Pearson: Cool. Neil Sattin: There's that reassurance that you're headed towards that place, and yet it can feel really scary to give, to grant, freedom, or to take freedom, let's say, to take that independence. Is there a specific way that you encourage people to do that, to enter into that required process, but to maintain an awareness of the other person's heart and how they're affecting them, but not in a way that leads to codependence? Pete Pearson: That question, Neil, brings us full circle back to where we started. Instead of saying, “Here's how you do it,” or, “Here's the way to do it,” it's like, “What is your motivation for doing it? What are the advantages for put ... Why would you put forth the effort? Why would you take the emotional risk? Why would you take the sustained effort to bring that about?” Then we can talk about how to do it, but let's first talk about the "why" you would be willing to do it. It's the why that gives us the motivation to do the work. Ellyn Bader: Pete, I think of some of the stuff that you've been doing lately around couples as a team also is part of an answer to Neil's question. Pete Pearson: Totally, because we first have to identify where we get stuck, where the pain is. That's easy for couples to do. Pete Pearson: “Here's where I get triggered. When my partner does X, this is what happens, and I get triggered.” Pete Pearson: I say, “Great, let's look at what you feel/think when you get triggered.” Pete Pearson: They go, “Oh, that's easy to do.” Pete Pearson: Now I will say, “Let's shift, because we have to shift from where you are in that emotional brain, that lizard brain reflex, that self-protection, and let's talk about how you aspire to be instead. If you come from your higher self, your transformative self, you're better self, what would that look like? Instead of responding from a defensive, blaming, accusatory, withdrawing place, what would be a better way of responding?” Pete Pearson: Most of the time, people can say, “Well, I'd be better if I was calmer, if I was curious, if I was a little more compassionate, if I was a better listener.” Pete Pearson: Then here's, I say, the key question, which is, “Why would you be willing to make the effort to go to that future focus, that forward focus? Why would you be willing to do that?”  Then, that gets us to all the benefits for change. People only change for three reasons: to avoid a greater pain, for the benefits involved or the rewards involved, and to live more within our integrity about how we aspire to be. We talk about why they would be willing to make the effort. Pete Pearson: Then, I'll say, "When you get stuck, when you get triggered, I want you to clasp your hands together and squeeze. That will, first of all, distract you from being looping in that emotional, lizard brain response. Then, think about how you would aspire to be, and why you would change and be that way. When your partner sees you clasping your hands, that's a signal to your partner that you are struggling to change your response and come from your better self. Then your partner will say to you, 'Oh, thank you. I appreciate your willingness to try to avoid going into that old place and do something different. I really appreciate that. What can I do to help that? What can I say or what can I do right now that would be helpful?'"  I say, "When you guys do that, now you're working together as a team." Neil Sattin: Perfect, and that being the whole goal is recognizing that, even as you progress through these stages of togetherness leading into greater independence, leading back to greater interdependence, that you're on the same team with each other. Pete Pearson: Yes. Neil Sattin: You're not out to get each other. You've got each other's back, and you can help each other through that process. Pete Pearson: Exactly. Neil Sattin: Well, Pete Pearson and Ellyn Bader, it's been a treat to have you on the show again, just like the first time around. I wish I had read your book, In Quest of the Mythical Mate, years ago, but I'm so thrilled that I read it now. I would say it's required reading for any couples therapist out there. You're doing a lot of work, training couples therapists, as well as work helping lay people just do better in relationships, through your work at The Couples Institute. Neil Sattin: Thank you, again, for being with us here today. I'll make sure we have links to your website, so people can find your work. I just want to say how grateful I am for the work you're doing in the world, and for your willingness to come and share it with us here on Relationship Alive. We could talk more, and hopefully, we'll get that chance again sometimes soon. Pete Pearson: Thank you, Neil, so much, for what you're doing to bring the message to the people out there. Neil Sattin: My pleasure. Ellyn Bader: Yes, thank you, Neil. It's always a pleasure talking with you, and I also will mention that I'm going to be doing a free online workshop between August 13th and 25th, so if any of your listeners want to participate in that, I can send you a link for that, as well. Neil Sattin: That would be great, and I can actually send that out to my mailing list, as well, so that people can find out about it that way. Ellyn Bader: That would be fantastic. Pete Pearson: Thank you, Neil. Ellyn Bader: Yeah, that would be great. Neil Sattin: Absolutely. Well, we'll be in touch about that, and always great to talk to you guys. Take care. Ellyn Bader: You, too. Pete Pearson: Bye-bye, Neil. Ellyn Bader: Bye.  

Point‐of‐care Resource Use in the Emergency Department: A Developmental Model by SAEM

This episode is packed full with advice for how to do good couples therapy. Some of the topics covered are the 6 types of confrontation, rethinking 1st sessions, and how to incorporate attachment theory, differentiation, and neuroscience.  Dr. Ellyn Bader is the co-founder of the Developmental Model for Couples Therapy. She and Dr. Peter Pearson co-wrote the book, In Quest of the Mythical Mate. They were pioneers in the field of couples therapy at the time and have since educated numerous therapists on how to work effectively with couples. The Couples Therapist Couch is the podcast for Couples Therapists about the practice of couples therapy. The host, Shane Birkel, interviews an expert in the field of couples therapy each week. There is an episode released every Tuesday about the practice of couples therapy. Please subscribe to the podcast for more great episodes! If you enjoyed the episode please leave a rating and review on iTunes. Click here to join the Couples Therapist Couch Facebook Group Check out the free gift from Ellyn at couplesinstitute.com/therapist.couch.podcast Books In Quest of the Mythical Mate: A Developmental Approach to Diagnosis and Treatment in Couples Therapy Tell me no Lies: How to Stop Lying to Your Partner - And Yourself - In the 4 Stages of Marriage

Summer Workshop 2018: Human Cognitive Development Across Cultures A collaboration between Simon Fraser University (SFU) and Emory's Center for the Mind Brain and Culture (CMBC). Workshop organizers: Lynne Nygaard, CMBC & Tanya Broesch, SFU Research examining human cognitive development, particularly in psychology, has been almost exclusively based on studying what Henrich and colleagues refer to as "Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich and Democratic" (WEIRD) populations. Although this is a narrow and unrepresentative slice of humanity, it continues to dominate research published in top developmental psychology journals. This workshop will provide an interdisciplinary forum to present and discuss current issues in understanding human development from a more global perspective. Together, we will address the key question: What have we learned about development across diverse societies that will help us better understand and explain variation in developmental pathways? Discussion and presentations will include an exploration of 1) what the current state of our knowledge is with respect to cognitive development, 2) how investigations of human development can expand to non-WEIRD samples, particularly small-scale societies, 3) what methodologies have been or should be developed to promote effective cross-cultural research, and 4) what are the primary theoretical and empirical obstacles to the study of cognitive development in diverse populations.

In this episode, Alanis talks with Pia Mellody about codependence and addiction recovery as well as parenting and creating functional relationships. Below are some books by Pia Mellody: Facing Codependence: What It Is, Where It Comes from, How It Sabotages Our Lives Facing Love Addiction: Giving Yourself the Power to Change the Way You Love  The Intimacy Factor: The Ground Rules for Overcoming the Obstacles to Truth, Respect, and Lasting Love   Additional information: Pia developed the Developmental Model of Immaturity which is used by the Meadows where she is a Senior Fellow.

Dr. Ellyn Bader has been practicing couples therapy for over 30 years. In this interview, she describes the evolution of her work as a couples therapist. She also discusses how she and her therapist husband, Dr. Peter Pearson, founded the Couples Institute and the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy. Dr. Bader discusses the challenges and rewards of building a private practice with associates as well as her online training programs for therapists. To get the show notes for this episode go to: http://www.julietaustin.com/bb26

Sue Diamond Potts is a couples therapist in Vancouver, BC. She focuses on seeing clients who have suffered trauma and addiction. Sue talked about coming from a violent and alcoholic family, which led to her developing an addiction. Sue has been in recovery for over 30 years now and is passionate about her work with couples. Sue has taken on several associates, and teaches and supervises therapists in couples therapy using the Developmental Model. She is also in the process of writing a book about her work. To get the show notes for this show go to http://www.julietaustin.com/bb20

We’re only releasing two episodes this week, and they’re related.   The first episode is part of an interview with a well known therapist couple, Dr. Ellyn Bader and Dr. Peter Pearson.  In the therapy world, these two are celebrities.  They created the Developmental Model of Couples Therapy—which is very highly regarded academically.  But more importantly, these two are actually married to one another. They have a lot to say about relationships from both the personal and clinical perspective.   The second interview, which we’ll release on Thursday, is with another fascinating couple: Molly and Jason, whose life from the outside looks ideal, but privately they have faced challenges and conflict in their relationship that felt completely hopeless at the time.   We’re putting these two episodes together because they both illustrate the need to face conflict in a relationship directly. You can find Ellyn and Peter at their website: www.couplesinstitute.com - they have lots of great information for couples on their site, and also provide referalls to couples therapists around the country.  

Highlights of Episode 104 "Hit the Gym with a Strength Coach"-  Cal Dietz (Univ. of Minnesota and XLAthlete.com) discusses training different qualities in a session or phase, as well as his new book, "Tri-Phasic Training"- what is is and how we can use it in our training.  "The Coach's Corner with Coach Boyle"- Coach Boyle talks about Dr. Richard Ginsburg's article "Developmental Model for Youth Coaches and Players", Testing Youth Athletes, Providing Positive Feedback and his article "Making To a College Team". Coach Boyle's Functional Strength Coach 4 is here! "Ask the Equipment Experts with Perform Better" - Erin McGirr  gives us a rundown on everything we can do with The Equalizer. "The Business of Fitness" with Results Fitness University - Rachel Cosgrove  talks about "Designing Your Life and Creating a Business That Supports Your Life" "Ask Functional Movement Systems"- Gray Cook expands on Movement Principle 9.  "Subscribe at iTunes" and Get Automatic Updates If you want to save this podcast to your computer so you can import it into your Ipod or MP3 player, Right Mouse Click to Download Now (for Mac users, press Control and click) 

Maureen McEvoy, MA, RCC has been working in the field of trauma for 30 years. She works with individuals, couples and groups. She is a long -standing instructor with the Justice Institute of BC, teaching other counsellors skills for working with survivors of child sexual abuse and other traumas. She provides clinical consultations to a number of counsellors and agencies. Many of her individual clients have experienced trauma, either recent or historical. Over the years she has developed a robust tool box, including training in EMDR, Developmental Needs Meeting Strategies, Somatic Experiencing and Sensorimotor Therapy along with earlier training in hypnosis and art therapy. Maureen also works with couples where one or both of the partners is a trauma survivor – either recent or historical. She has taken many trainings to develop skills in couples work – Imago Relationship therapy, the Gottman Method, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), The Developmental Model and most recently, Stan Takin's PACT (Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy). She is a certified Imago Relationship therapist (Advanced Clinician) and Clinical Consultant.  She also presents – along with her business partner Tamara Adilman – the Getting the Love You Want weekend workshop for couples.In This EpisodeMauree's websiteImago for Couples and IndividualsAbout ImagoSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-trauma-therapist-podcast-with-guy-macpherson-phd-inspiring-interviews-with-thought-leaders-in-the-field-of-trauma/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands