Podcasts about national renewable energy lab

Blue Frontier is transforming the air conditioning industry with technology that achieves 3x greater efficiency while providing superior climate control and grid benefits. In this episode of Category Visionaries, I spoke with Daniel Betts, CEO and Co-Founder of Blue Frontier, about the company's journey from licensing National Renewable Energy Lab technology to developing next-generation air conditioning systems that could fundamentally change how utilities approach peak energy demands. Topics Discussed: The evolution from power generation expertise to air conditioning innovation Licensing and commercializing national lab research Building a founding team with complementary expertise Navigating the challenges of hardware development and manufacturing Strategic market entry in commercial building ventilation The intersection of comfort, energy efficiency, and grid infrastructure The future of utility-integrated air conditioning systems   GTM Lessons for B2B Founders: Choose markets ripe for revolution: Blue Frontier targeted air conditioning because it uses 150-year-old technology and is controlled by a small group of large players. Betts explained, "The market is ripe for disruption, but it also means that disruption will be very difficult... you have to have technology that is way better than the existing technology." Create unfair advantages through multi-dimensional value: Blue Frontier's technology delivers 3x efficiency gains while enabling grid flexibility and superior comfort. This combination of benefits creates value streams that incumbent technologies cannot match. B2B founders should look for opportunities where their innovation can unlock multiple, complementary value propositions. Target strategic entry points: Rather than trying to serve all market segments immediately, Blue Frontier focused on commercial building ventilation systems where their technology could deliver the highest impact. Betts shared their criteria: "Choose a market that will give you enough replicable product that you get to learn and have generational improvements that occur fast... but that is on the premium side of things and it's not a market that is so large that it overwhelms the company." Leverage institutional partnerships: Blue Frontier's breakthrough came through licensing technology from the National Renewable Energy Labs. For deep tech founders, national labs and research institutions can provide foundational IP and validation. However, commercial success requires translating that technology into products that solve real market needs. Balance user experience with system-level benefits: While Blue Frontier's grid benefits are compelling, Betts emphasized the importance of user experience: "You must provide technology that is for the user much better... once you're inside this air conditioned space that I am creating, you cannot go back to the old way of doing things." B2B founders should ensure their innovation delivers clear improvements to end-user experience, even when selling to businesses. //   Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe.  www.GlobalTalent.co        

I was able to speak with Dave Roberts just before he retired from the National Renewable Energy Lab after a full carrier leading a group of talented engineers and scientists who have been leveraging computer modeling and simulation to address pressing residential building efficiency, electrification, and carbon related issues in our country.   I first met Dave when he worked in software development with REMRate which at the time was the most widely used energy modeling software developed to create the RESNET HERS Energy Rating Index. He has been heavily involved with RESENT over the years as a member of the ANSI standards development committee and chair of the software calculations subcommittee.  We have become friends, and I wanted to be sure to speak with him on the buildCAST before his retirement to be able to better understand his carrier and catalog is contribution to our industry.    Unfortunately, my side of the conversation did not record well and sounds a bit rough, but luckily for you Dave did most of the talking and he is well worth listening to. What he has to say puts a lot of our applied building science and other work with residential buildings into better context and he leaves a research question on the table for us to aspire to answer, hopefully in the near future.   Thanks, Dave, for all you have done, and I truly hope you have a wonderful and fruitful next stage of life.  All the best. Dave Roberts on LinkedIn National Renewable Energy Laboratory RESNET

Plastics are a modern miracle of science that have helped deliver both convenience and life-saving solutions. However, we must now grapple with the challenge of immense amounts of plastics in our waste streams and environment. How do we best deconstruct plastics to reusable or more bio-friendly molecules? This is the exact challenge being addressed by the work of Dr. Elizabeth (Izzy) Bell and her team at the National Renewable Energy Lab. Our conversation with Izzy showcases her ability to summarize complex topics very concisely and understandably, which she says is a skill that is critically important in her field because it's so interdisciplinary. Izzy summarizes the challenges they're working to address and then walks us through the stepwise processes she and her team use to conduct directed evolution studies. These studies aim to create and characterize enzymes capable of deconstructing common plastics, first at a laboratory scale, but eventually at an industrial scale. If you've ever wondered about how directed evolution studies are done, and the role that molecular biology plays with them, this conversation will be sure to clarify. In addition to the great science of this episode, Izzy also helps outline what it takes to get into and be successful in her field – a great resource for anyone aspiring to get into this area of research. We hear about how interdisciplinary the field is, but how that means it's also ripe with opportunity for those passionate about learning and making a difference. Join us for what is sure to be an informative and inspiring episode! Subscribe to get future episodes as they drop and if you like what you're hearing we hope you'll share a review or recommend the series to a colleague.  Download Transcripts: Speaking of Mol Bio Podcast | Thermo Fisher Scientific - US Visit the Invitrogen School of Molecular Biology to access helpful molecular biology resources and educational content, and please share this resource with anyone you know working in molecular biology.

Much of sports is a gamble. There's a saying: “Any team can win any game on any given day.” Almost nothing, no outcome, is guaranteed in sports—and that's part of the fun of watching and playing. But players and coaches want to eliminate as many variables as possible, trying to leave less up to chance. And that is where statistics come in. It might seem like a good idea to call a timeout in the NBA when the opposing team is on a scoring run—it could slow their momentum, change the energy of the game, right?  Research from a University of Denver data analytics professor indicates otherwise. In this episode, Emma chats with Daniels College of Business professor Ryan Elmore about his work in sports analytics—and why taking a timeout in the midst of an NBA game might not be the solution to slowing an opposing team's momentum.  Ryan Elmore is an associate professor in the Department of Business Information and Analytics at the Daniels College of Business. Prior to Daniels, he worked as a senior scientist in the Computational Sciences Center at the National Renewable Energy Lab in Golden, Colorado. He has also held positions at the Australian National University, Colorado State University and Slide, Inc. Elmore's research interests include statistics in sports, nonparametric statistical methods, and energy efficient high-performance computing. His work in sports statistics has led to the position of Associate Editor for the Journal of Quantitative Analysis of Sports (2015–present) and consultant to the Denver Nuggets professional basketball team. More Information:  “The causal effect of a timeout at stopping an opposing run in the NBA”  “Bang the Can Slowly: An Investigation into the 2017 Houston Astros” 

Climate is a threat to the planet, and an area of great opportunity for entrepreneurs and investors to be part of the solution. Last year saw over $70 billion in venture capital invested in Climate Tech ventures. There are huge opportunities for founders and investors in this sector, as climate resilience becomes a growing imperative worldwide. I hosted this panel along with Louis Lehot and Jeffery Atkin of Foley & Lardner, and our expert guests included Kathleen Egan, CEO of ecomedes, Kristin Wegner Guilfoyle of the National Renewable Energy Lab, Gopal Erinjippurath, CTO of Sust Global, and Charlie Crocker, Co-founder of Zonehaven.

Perhaps you've heard of the Valley of Death? It's the phase of development that often kills off startups before they can reach scale. One key challenge is needing to test and refine their technology and gain true validation. For a few lucky startups, this is where the Wells Fargo Innovation Incubator comes in to help them develop pilots that provide the insights and credible third-party endorsement needed to grow their technology. The incubator is part of the Department of Energy-backed National Renewable Energy Lab, an institution that's central to the United State's investment in renewable energy. Today, we're joined by Trish Cozart, the Director of NREL's Innovation and Entrepreneurship Center, who oversees the Incubator. And, we're also joined by the founders of two startups that recently participated in the lab: Adam Cohen from NineDot Energy and Tanya Barham from Community Energy Labs. We talk about what makes the incubator unique, how it's helped these two companies, what they're aiming to achieve and much more. Enjoy! In today's episode, we cover:[3:15] National Renewable Energy Laboratory & the role it plays[5:01] Wells Fargo Innovation Incubator & the types of companies it supports[7:07] Tracking growth after participation in the Incubator[7:29] Advice for companies that need to get through the Valley of Death[9:01] Community Energy Labs, the problem it's aiming to solve & what led Tanya to start the company[11:09] NineDot Energy, the problem it's aiming to solve & Adam's founding story[13:32] Tanya's experience with the Incubator & differences in the NREL experience[17:39] Adam's experience with the Incubator: focuses & outcomes[19:55] Trish on the support offered by the Incubator[22:07] Energy storage & why its important, especially in New York[24:03] How is NineDot different[25:45] NineDot's partnerships & learnings[28:15] NineDot's overall traction & current measurements[29:23] What are community buildings & why focus on them[34:56] Community Energy Lab's technology & what makes it different[39:40] Community Energy Lab's overall traction & achievements so far[42:04] New cohorts for the Incubator & what to expect for the future[43:04] NineDot's role & what is needed to get there[43:58] What the future looks like for Community Energy LabsResources MentionedWells Fargo Innovation IncubatorNational Renewable Energy Lab, NREL's Innovation and Entrepreneurship CenterNineDot Energy Community Energy LabsConnect with Trish Cozart, Adam Cohen & Tanya BarhamConnect with Trish on

Energy generation and distribution are experiencing the kind of disruption that transformed many other industries over the past 20 years. But the electric grid is a stubbornly rigid physical infrastructure that will require vast investments to modernize. Dr. Tim Lieuwen, Regents' Professor and executive director of the Strategic Energy Institute at Georgia Tech, joins the conversation to discuss accelerating the pace of electrification of transportation and modernization of the electric grid to support renewable energy generation and distribution. The changes that will follow the reorganization of the grid will also transform our relationship to energy as fundamentally as the introduction of electricity and power distribution lines in the late 1800s. It will be a challenging, fascinating, and sometimes terrifying time for energy companies, investors, and consumers.Dr. Lieuwen is the author of four books on the physics of combustion and gas turbine engines, as well as a member of governing or advisory boards for Oak Ridge National Lab, Pacific Northwest National Lab, and the National Renewable Energy Lab, among others. Discover how the Inflation Reduction Act and Bipartisan Infrastructure Law contribute to rapid progress in renewable power and electrification of the economy. We also explore how long fossil fuels will stay in the energy mix and the lessons of Texas' 2021 winter storm power outages. You can learn more about him at https://ae.gatech.edu/directory/person/timothy-charles-lieuwen

In this episode, Jennifer Garson of the Department of Energy's Water Power Technologies Office discusses the state of hydropower in the US and where the industry is headed.(a)(Active transcript)Text transcript:David RobertsFor decades, hydropower has been most common source of renewable electricity in the world. (In the US, it was passed by wind a few years ago.) Pumped hydro — large hydropower facilities in which water is pumped up and run down hill to store energy — remains the most common form of energy storage, both in the US and in the world.Even as the vast majority of media attention in the clean-energy world goes to wind and solar power, hydropower continues churning away in the background, generating and storing vast amounts of renewable energy.Hydro has a long and storied past, but does it have a future? What's going on with hydropower these days? Is there any prospect of building new dams or of finding more power in existing dams? What's going on with small hydropower, on rivers, streams, and reservoirs? And is ocean energy ever going to be a real thing?I've taken hydropower for granted for a long time, so I decided it was finally time to dig into these questions. To do so, I contacted Jennifer Garson, head of the Department of Energy's Water Power Technologies Office (WPTO). The WPTO oversees a sprawling network of prizes and grants meant to encourage hydro and marine energy projects. I talked with Garson about the future of large dams in the US, the promise of small-scale hydro for local communities, and the uncertain future of marine energy.Alright, with no further ado, Jennifer Garson, welcome to Volts. Thank you so much for coming.Jennifer GarsonThank you so much for having me.David RobertsAlright, so we normally normally here on Volts, we do the sort of deep dive into one thing. But this here we're going to attempt something slightly different, which is a broad overview of a fairly large category, larger than I think I appreciated before I started digging around and just try to get a sort of global sense of where it's at. Because I know that from my experience in clean energy, I've sort of, like, had hydro in the back of my head as kind of this steady presence, a little bit like nuclear, like a steady presence in the background, but not something where anything kind of dynamic or new is happening. And I think you probably disagree with that.So let's get into it. So just to start with, what are the technologies encompassed by the terms "hydro" and "marine energy" that your office covers? What is the remit?Jennifer GarsonYeah, so glad you asked that. And it is, sort of, just by nature of our office as we're structured that, we have two very interesting, but two very different types of water power technologies. So the first that you mentioned is hydropower. Hydropower really has been delivering power for the last 100 plus years. It's both the conventional hydropower, so very large behind the reservoir, big dams that people usually envision when they're thinking about hydro. We also have smaller non-powered dams that we power with hydropower. We also have run-of-river systems that actually have diversions in addition to dams, where you actually have water flowing to the side of the river. And then we also are thinking about hydropower. Even in conduits and canals, how do you use existing water infrastructure to provide power, whether it's for water treatment or irrigation, a whole number of different ways that you could use existing infrastructure for water power.Jennifer GarsonOn the other side of the portfolio, we have marine renewable energy. So while hydropower is probably the oldest form of renewable power — although potentially, arguably wind is too — marine renewable energy is the most nascent form of renewable energy. And that's really looking out to the power of the ocean. Everything from how do we kinetically capture power, how do we use gradients to capture power. So everything from tidal power, wave power, ocean thermal energy conversion, even salinity gradients and even pressure gradients, really looking at a multitude of ways of when you look out at the ocean and see all the power that's contained in it, how do we use different power capture systems to harness multitude of ways that the ocean generates power?David RobertsGot it. So water on land and water at sea ...Jennifer GarsonWater everywhere.David RobertsWater everywhere. So let's start then with big dams, because I think this is when you say hydropower, this is what springs to people's minds as sort of the conventional form. I think conventional wisdom is that we've got a lot of big dams in the US creating a lot of power and it's steady and it's good, but that's more or less it. And so this is my first question. It's just do you think we're going to build any more large dams in the US or large, dam-wise, are we basically tapped out?Jennifer GarsonSo that's a really excellent question. I think there's a general agreement that we are not going to be building. Any large dams on existing waterways. I think in terms of large conventional hydropower, we are most likely tapped out. Particularly here, I should say, in the United States. That isn't necessarily true elsewhere across the world.David RobertsRight.Jennifer GarsonWe do think about building other big structures like pump storage, but those have been now leaning more towards what we call closed-loop systems, which are two bodies of water connected, but they're usually constructed and fabricated bodies of water. They're not connected to an existing large river. So I think for the United States, we're not going to see any large behind the reservoir, conventional hydropower, big dams built on any of our riverways anytime soon.David RobertsAlso on the subject, I've heard conflicting things about the carbon emissions of big dams. I feel like there's been some new research lately that shows that those emissions are higher than we thought. Because you're disrupting a bunch of soil, you're creating a pool where things rot and produce methane. So what's our latest state of thinking on the large dams that exist? Are there large dams that exist that we think are less of a carbon asset than we thought, that we think need to be closed down for environmental reasons?Jennifer GarsonSo I think those are actually two separate questions, one is what is the science behind say, methane or reservoir emissions, particularly given vegetation? We are conducting studies right now at the Department of Energy really trying to understand what types of sensors and measurements are needed to either validate or invalidate that as a theory. I think that there's still unsettled research on the magnitude of the impact, also the timing of the impact. So the other thing that we talk about when thinking about reservoir emissions is, if you're talking about vegetation rot at the bottom of a reservoir for a dam or a facility that's been around for a long time, does it still hold that you have emissions or methane challenges? And I think we still need to do more research on both the kind of temporal nature and the magnitude of the problem. It's not to say that we think there's no problem at all or there's a major problem.I really think it's a critical research question that we are fundamentally trying to address with kind of true scientific method. On the environmental piece, there's obviously been a lot of both discussions and controversy about dam removal. And I would say even ten years ago, it was not a conversation that the hydropower industry was really actively engaged in or even potentially willing to engage in.Jennifer GarsonBut over the last few years, there's been a really interesting kind of convening between the environmental and the hydropower community actually under ... it's called "The Uncommon Dialogue", it was run by Stanford University that was really trying to get together the environmental and hydropower community to have tough conversations like dam removal, but also dam repair, rehabilitation, and retrofits. And we actually just announced a few weeks ago, through funding that we received under the bipartisan infrastructure law, that DOE is actually going to fund more participation in that uncommon dialogue stakeholder strategy sessions, so that we can really understand where some of the opportunities at both environmental benefits like flood management, temperature control, but also the types of tools and research that we need to understand, "What are some of the environmental implications either of leaving power dams in existence?"Dam removal isn't necessarily something that we do within DOE, but we do support this kind of ongoing dialogue between the environmental and hydropower community, because ultimately the future of hydropower needs to be one that is sustainable and compatible with both from a climate perspective and from an environmental perspective.David RobertsRight. Well, on the flip side of that, my other question is not all large dams in the US are producing power, and the ones that are powered aren't necessarily producing the maximum amount of power they could produce. So how much sort of runway do we have in powering existing dams or upgrading existing hydropower facilities?Jennifer GarsonYeah, so there's kind of a couple of pieces in there. One is that there are 90,000 dams in the United States, and only 3% actually have power.David RobertsOh, no kidding.Jennifer GarsonYeah.David RobertsIs it mainly small versus big is, like, the biggest ones have power and a bunch of smaller ones don't? Or is that not the dividing line?Jennifer GarsonIt really varies. It's not necessarily the big ones do, I mean, you think about some big dams that do have power. I think predominantly you're looking at small to medium-sized dams that aren't currently powered, and many of them were built for other reasons, like flood control, recreation, irrigation, you name it. But still, it's always been incredible to me to kind of dig into those numbers where you think that every dam must have hydro associated with it, and it doesn't.We've been doing a lot of research, looking at what are the attributes of non-powered dams that we could potentially tap into for power purposes; how do we take advantage of this existing infrastructure and potentially provide power to it? And so, only about the top 600 dams that we have have more than 1 megawatt of potential, but they account for, actually 90% of the total non-powered dam potential. The top hundred largest dams represent about 8 gigawatts, and the top ten represent about 3 gigawatts.Jennifer GarsonSo there is quite a bit of power even within those non-powered dams. And actually, from 2000 to 2020, there were actually 36 non-powered dams that were retrofitted that added about a half a gigawatt of capacity. But then you also talk about, what do we think about for the expansion of the existing hydropower fleet?Jennifer GarsonWe all know that hydropower right now accounts for about six and a half percent of total load nationwide, but the capacity expansion, even at looking at what do we do with the existing hydropower fleet that we have, you could actually have a combined growth of about 13 gigawatts of new hydropower generation capacity through existing plants, adding power to non-powered dams and some new stream reach. We had initial estimates of about 36 gigawatts potential for new pump storage hydro capacity, too.David RobertsSo there are then potentially gigawatts of new power to be had with dams that are already built?Jennifer GarsonYup.David RobertsAnd so why is it that already happening? Is it the economics? What needs to happen to really ... because we need all the clean power we can get, so it seems like this is something we should be pursuing unless there's something stopping us. So what are the barriers to making that happen?Jennifer GarsonI mean, the answer is it's complicated because it's very dependent upon the site that we're talking about. So it could be that adding existing capacity requires additional capital and if the capital gets too high is there a customer willing to pay for that higher price of electricity? There's also complications, especially for the existing fleet for relicensing. The relicensing process for hydropower is incredibly difficult. It's surmountable, but it is difficult.It's actually more difficult. We did a study about a year ago looking at the licensing and relicensing process for hydropower, and the number of agencies even involved in hydropower licensing actually exceeds that for nuclear.David RobertsTake that, nuclear-whiners.Jennifer GarsonExactly. Hydro has got it worse. But even with the challenges for licensing and finding capital, we still think that there's enormous promise by tapping into this existing generation fleet, particularly given the firm flexible, baseload generation power of renewables through hydropower, specifically. We even looked at a study looking at what's the black start capabilities that hydropower currently provides. Right now it's 40% of the black start capabilities is actually provided by hydro.David RobertsInteresting.Jennifer GarsonAnd whether you're talking about spinning reserves, ancillary services, other grid services, I think we're going to need to both expand what we have in our existing fleet, but also maintain that existing fleet in order to provide the critical services that we need as more renewables come online.David RobertsOne of the big worries in nuclear is you've got these plants that are up and running and they're scheduled to close, basically. And so there's all this agita about we've got this clean power, we're about to take it off grid. It's crazy. Are any of our big dams scheduled to close or are they more or less like can run forever as long as you maintain them?Jennifer GarsonAgain, it depends. Some are subject to licensing and relicensing. Also half of the hydropower fleet is actually federal, so part of it will stay online as long as the federal government wants to maintain those dams. But the threat of licensing or the threat of not being able to get through the relicensing process for our existing fleet could leave up to about 50% of our fleet in the next ten years is up for relicensing. We don't get that through relicensing. That means we lose a substantial amount of our power if they can't get through the regulatory process. And so we're trying to focus on even things like how do we improve the environmental performance of existing dams? How do you really think creatively about some of the upgrades that could expand some of those grid capabilities? Because if you're going to take a facility that's been online and it's been load following, it's really for keeping the lights on.Jennifer GarsonHow do you change the operational nature of those plants to also provide those grid services without degrading the existing hardware at those facilities? It's a totally new operating environment, one that we can almost take advantage of the relicensing process and do these types of upgrades, but it does mean that we have to get that non federal fleet through the relicensing process in order to keep them online.David RobertsThis story of excess bureaucracy and paperwork slowing things down pops up ...Jennifer GarsonEverywhere!David RobertsEveryone I talk to.Jennifer GarsonYes, sadly, but I will say we've actually seen a lot of interest on the Hill, on Capitol Hill, over the last probably two years, I'd say through a bipartisan nature at thinking about some of the challenges and opportunities in particular on hydropower regulatory reform. Now we again at DOE really just take a sort of analytical approach to understanding what that regulatory process looks like and how it exists. But even last spring there was actually a Hill committee meeting specifically on the regulatory process. It was actually in a follow on a Hill committee staff meeting that was specifically on hydro last January. So I think there's both a recognition that something needs to change and I think potentially some momentum behind trying to really take a hard look at what the hydropower fleet has to go through from a regulatory perspective.David RobertsYeah, I guess it just strikes me it would be a little crazy for us when we're in this mad scramble for clean power and we have this infrastructure, a lot of which is already built, that we could just get a lot more clean power out of that we're not going for it, Gangbusters. final question about large dams, which is one of the things you hear about the future of hydropower is the threat of climate change itself and the threat of droughts and the threat basically of hydro output, which has typically been fairly reliable, becoming more sort of unpredictable and variable and a little bit less reliable. Is that something you think about a lot?Jennifer GarsonSo actually last year we conducted a really comprehensive look at the effects of drought on hydropower generation in the United States. So we did a couple of different analyses, but I'll touch on this one first. Drought obviously can and has impacted hydropower in the west, but if you actually look at it from a fleet wide perspective, the Western hydropower fleet still sustained 80% of its average generation during the worst drought this century. Now, that was a lot of times reliant on what you had as storage behind the reservoir and so we are doing a second order analysis to say what happens when you have less reservoir ability to really do an overall assessment. But there are so many smaller subregions in the west that still they don't typically always have drought super decentralized. It's usually essentialized in certain areas. So it is certainly a threat and we have a lot of work, I think, that we've been doing it. How do we look at from a forecasting perspective, not just looking at hind-cast models, don't use past as precedents, also look to the future for future climactic modeling and how do we begin to plan from both a climate resiliency perspective?Jennifer GarsonWhat are the localized impacts going to be on individual sites? But when you look at it from a fleetwide perspective thus far, we actually haven't seen that much of a decline in power production across the west. That's because sometimes where we have more acute drought in some regions, we might have an abundance of water in others. If you take a look at even California, whether it's through the impact of atmospheric rivers or a historic snow pack.David RobertsThe snowpack they've got now historic highs. Is there going to be an abundance of hydropower next year?Jennifer GarsonIt certainly could help make sure that there is a reliable amount of water to help sustain hydropower production. There's a lot of hydropower in California, but I think we still have more work to be done on both what's the forecasting and looking at snowpack melt and what it's going to mean for a next season's. Hydropower availability and how do we plan not just on a year to year basis, but over a longer period of time? So we're committing a lot of resources towards this hydrologic and climate science analysis. We also just did the most comprehensive assessment through Oak Ridge National Laboratory, it's called. And this is because of the Secure Water Act, the 9505 assessment, which really looked at an analysis of hydropower generation affected by long term climate change, specifically at the Power Marketing Administration.Jennifer GarsonAnd our most recent report, which we actually just published last year, is that long term average runoff and hydropower generation are actually projected to slightly increase across the continental US, but some summer runoff is projected to decrease by the mid 21st century. So you're talking about seasonal change and so that will require us to think about storage in different ways when we can rely on hydropower. Do you shift the kind of seasonal expectation of it really fitting summer loads and potentially more in spring or even winter loads? But maintaining that flexibility and operation is going to be a key challenge, whether it's because of projected seasonal availability or just water management strategies or just the fact that when you look at it from a purely sort of quantitative perspective, our ability to know where water goes is not nearly as sophisticated right now as where electricity goes.Like, our sensors and measurements are so far behind that which you see in the electricity sector that we feel like there's a lot of opportunity to increase sensors, monitoring and models to be incorporated into hydropower forecasting so that we have more predictability and a better understanding of just how climate change is going to impact hydropower availability. It's not to say that it's going to be easy, it's just it's more complicated than what you would imagine just looking at pictures of drought in the west.David RobertsSo let's talk about then smaller scale hydro on rivers, streams, canals, conduits, smaller forms of river. I've heard about these sort of in the background for many, many years. As far as I can tell, it hasn't really amounted to much. And just like intuitively, when I think about building like a little dam or a little generator just for the amount of power that's coming through a stream or a river, it sounds like a lot of infrastructure for a small amount of power. So I wonder about the economics. So maybe you just tell us what is the deal with small scale hydro?Is it a real thing? Is it growing or shrinking? Is there a lot of potential there? What do we know about it?Jennifer GarsonSure, I want to just set a little bit of context.Jennifer GarsonWhen we talk about small hydropower, we're talking about anything between as small as 100 kilowatts, all the way up to 10 megawatts.David RobertsGot it.Jennifer GarsonAnd, we do have this picture that large-scale hydropower is really the predominant form of power. But actually, 72% of our hydropower fleet — it's almost 1,700 plants out of the almost 2,300 total plants — produce less than 10 megawatts apiece. So even though it may be more obvious that we think about hydropower as large, it's actually almost 3.65 gigawatts of hydropower capacity is actually small.And I think that when you think about these small hydropower facilities, a lot of times they're in places that it's serving a local load or it's serving a direct facility. And so, to me, I think the value of these smaller facilities is how they're providing power to local customers. Many of them are owned even by what you would consider more like mom and pop hydropower operators. But also when we think about the potential for non-powered dam development — so we talked a little bit earlier about, "Are the big non-powered dams big or are they small?" — 71% of the potential for non-powered dam development is actually in small dams with small reservoirs. So it may not be a simple form of power capture, but there really is a lot of potential untapped through non-powered dams.And then you talked a little bit about run-of-river. The run-of-river potential is also there. We have been talking to different communities that are considering run-of-river systems for power. And a lot of times soon we're thinking about some of these small power dams. We get approached a lot by say, communities in Alaska where they're looking at what are their power potential in places where they're not going to be able to harness solar on a year-long perspective or be able to potentially get wind reliably. And so some of these small hydropower facilities in more kind of remote and isolated areas could provide really meaningful power to places that may not have another form of renewable energy accessible to decarbonize their systems. And to me, that's just as meaningful as adding big, huge gigawatts everywhere.Jennifer GarsonWe need to add big, huge gigawatts everywhere of renewables. But I think the potential for some of these smaller hydropower facilities could be incredibly meaningful. We also even just did an assessment last year, looking at underserved and distressed communities in the Appalachia region, where could you power non-power dams and add different forms of storage to provide almost essentially quality-base load power. And there were quite a few sites where you could provide reliable, relatively cheap power for these communities.Jennifer GarsonNow, when it comes to the economics, it is more expensive when you look at it from a per megawatt basis. But when I think about the critical value of having hydropower serve, essentially, around the clock, I think this is where we think about decarbonizing everything from the electricity sector. We're going to have to have a higher willingness to pay for firm, flexible power.I think, when we're thinking about the economics of small scale hydropower, we think about it in a couple of different ways. One is, what is that power going to provide at that small scale? When you're thinking about it as a firm baseload power, is it providing power to places that might not have otherwise access to renewable electricity or a clean grid? Is it in combination to with, say, a solar array and storage? We've seen a couple of small hydropower developers who are looking at it as almost like a mini micro-grid with hydro as the small baseload power. And so rather than it just being the project economics is just the hydropower facility itself, thinking about it from a project perspective: hydro with storage plus solar. And how do you think about it within that overall kind of portfolio context and not just the facility itself? That being said, funding these types of projects is not easy, whether it's because of the licensing or relicensing process or because of the high capital costs.David RobertsIs that a hassle for small run-of-river stuff too, the licensing stuff?Jennifer GarsonSure, you still need a license to operate. There are some exceptions, but you typically still need to get a license from FERC. But they have been trying especially for non-power dams and closed lip pump storage. FERC has been trying to have an accelerated permitting for these types of facilities. So the new stream reach, which is where there's no dam, that's a little bit more complicated, but for powering non-powered dams, FERC and other partners have recognized that there's already essentially been disruption to the local ecosystem. So you're not talking about a complete new build, you're talking about adding infrastructure to existing infrastructure.But it also depends on who the owner of the dam is. A lot of developers are actually looking at powering non-powered dams that are owned by the Army Corps or the Bureau of Reclamation, trying to take advantage of existing infrastructure that's already been built by the federal government and add power. And there are a number of developers that are trying to think about developing these non-power dams through a portfolio of different non-power dams. So rather than treating it as a kind of one off project, how do they do kind of feasibility analysis, looking at a number of different non-power dams of power and treating it more like a portfolio package of power.And that is different from the way that we've traditionally financed non-powered dams. I still think we have a way to go, and we're actually about to set out on a study with the National Renewable Energy Laboratory and Deloitte to really look at the investment landscape in hydropower. Because ever since I've been in this space, I've always heard that investment in hydropower is really hard. But when you start asking the second order question of why, you kind of get a jumbled answer of, "It's the licensing, it's the customers, it's the PPA."So we're really trying to put a lot of rigor behind, "How do we get more momentum into developing non-powered dams? How do we try to increase the investment appetite to looking at these types of facilities and facility buildouts, whether it's expanding existing capacity at hydropower facilities or small hydropower through non-powered dams, to really fill that gap that we see 10-20 years down the line of the need for firm, flexible power resources." So I think we're in the midst of a changing investment landscape, too, about how do you value firm power?David RobertsRight. So it's fair to say then, when it comes to the smaller hydro on rivers and such, it's not so much the raw sort of like dollar per megawatt where you find the value. It's more in the firmness, right, which we don't fully value yet, but will, I think, soon. And the local benefits, local resilience and stuff like that.Jennifer GarsonYeah. And even so, we just did a demonstration last year in Idaho Falls, the Idaho Falls Power, and they were looking at how do they optimize their smaller run of river hydropower systems and tried to see whether or not adding some sort of storage medium. Ultimately, it was super capacitors. But if they add a storage medium to those smaller facilities, can they actually provide black start capabilities for their local community, recognizing that they're tied into a larger grid? And if the larger grid goes down, they don't want to lose access to the electricity they need for critical services.Jennifer GarsonAnd so it's thinking about, too, in the context of some of these smaller projects, can you use them to help jumpstart the grid or provide more consistent power or provide a more predictable load for electricity consumption? But I still think it is still higher on a project economics of $70 a megawatt, roughly. But what we're trying to really dig into is what is the value inherent between, say, the $20 per megawatt you would see for solar and the 70 for hydro? Are there enough services and economics behind that higher threshold to really kind of catalyze investment into that space?How do you provide that investment theory that shows why it's really important that some power you're going to have to pay more for?David RobertsThere's probably a ton more to talk about there, but we have other things to hit, one of which is storage. I think Volts listeners are probably savvy enough at this point to know that the vast, vast bulk of existing energy storage is in the form of what's called pumped hydro storage, which is basically just you pump water uphill when you have power, and then when you need power, you run the water downhill through generators. Pretty simple. This is how we do most of our energy storage today. So one of the things that people say about pumped hydro is that it is geography dependent.You have to find the right body of water in the right place with the right whatevers. So I'm curious, have we built out the sort of traditional pumped hydro that is possible or is there more room sort of same question about the large dams. Is there more room to build new pumped hydro and is there more room to get more capacity out of existing pumped hydro facilities? I know we have this new technology that's closed-loop pump hydro, which we'll talk about in a second. But just in terms of the traditional kind, is that tapped out or is there more to be had there?Jennifer GarsonYeah, put it in order of magnitude. About 93% of the long duration storage or even just storage capabilities. Right now on the grid is pump storage. And that's actually just from 43 pump storage plants.David RobertsThey're very big.Jennifer GarsonThey're very big. They were actually originally built to complement nuclear.David RobertsInteresting.Jennifer GarsonYeah. So now we're thinking about what's going to complement next or continue to complement nuclear. But when you think about even the potential in our existing fleet, between 2010 and 2019, we added 1.3 gigawatts of PSH capacity just at the existing facilities that we already have online.David RobertsInteresting. That's a lot.Jennifer GarsonIt's almost the same amount as all other energy storage types combined that were added at that period of time. Yeah. So just making these capacity upgrades is huge.David RobertsHow do you add capacity? Is it bigger pipes, bigger pumps? Is there any magic to that?Jennifer GarsonBigger pumps, different turbines, different upgrades to better not impede flow, even management practices utilizing it more. So even some of our storage facilities aren't necessarily utilized to their full capacity. And so you usually either need better control systems or kind of control strategies or equipment upgrades or environmental upgrades. There's a multitude of different upgrades that can happen to add capacity at our pump storage facilities.David RobertsAnd that's ongoing. There's still more. There's more to be had there.Jennifer GarsonThere definitely is more to be had. But I actually also want to point out we have typically thought of pump storage as these big open-loop systems. So you mentioned closed-loop. All of our facilities right now are open-loop, which means they're connected to existing waterways and rivers. So if you looked at where are we going to have big diversions from big existing waterways to other storage medium to other reservoirs, that's probably more limited. But we actually just did a whole assessment on pump storage resource characterization and resource assessment here in the US and found there's actually 15,000 additional sites for pump storage development.David RobertsOh, good grief. And that's the open-loop kind you're talking about.Jennifer GarsonThat's closed-loop, actually, specifically. Closed-loop, there are more than 15,000 sites that you could actually have for additional facilities to be brought online. And there are some major closed-loop facilities that are getting pretty close in the regulatory process, and we've actually been working with some of those sites through our pump storage valuation project where we were looking at what's the cost benefit analysis and return for these different types of closed-loop systems.David RobertsExplain what a closed-loop system is just so people get it.Jennifer GarsonIt's basically very simple mechanical energy. You have an upper reservoir, so basically an upper ground tank, for lack of a better term. It could be at the top of a mountain, it could be at the top of a hill, but you need some sort of head so it can run down. But you have a top reservoir and a bottom reservoir and basically pipes that connect between the two. And when you have excess electricity, electricity pumps the water from the lower reservoir up to the upper reservoir. And when you need that power, you run that water right back through the turbines to go back down to the lower reservoir. So it's just basically mechanical movement of water between two bodies of water.David RobertsAnd so if you can create your own reservoirs, then all you really need, geographically, is a hill.Jennifer GarsonCorrect.David RobertsAnd there are lots of hills.Jennifer GarsonWe got a lot of hills.David RobertsWhat about underground? I feel like I've seen this bandied about where you just dig a hole and sort of use the surface of the earth as your upper reservoir and the hole as your lower reservoir. Is that a thing?Jennifer GarsonYeah. We've been working with a couple of different companies that are looking at underground reservoirs. There are ideas, everything from utilizing old mines, which there's some worry about from a geotechnical perspective. Will you actually have enough stability to have an upper reservoir and then the lower reservoir in the mine? But there is potential. But then there are companies like Quidnet who is essentially injecting water underground and using it to come back up and spin through a turbine for more modular underground pump storage. So I think there's definitely opportunity both above and below the ground. It just all really depends on sort of the geotechnical feasibility, site availability and just what are you going to get from round trip efficiency for different types of power?David RobertsWell, this closed-loop pump storage seems like a huge opportunity. Do we know, I mean, if there isn't any built yet, do we know what its economics are going to be relative to other storage possibilities?Jennifer GarsonYes, we know the economics pretty well. I mean, obviously the economics has changed as with every other storage technology out there with the inflation reduction act passage. But we have done a lot on sort of valuation from a per megawatt perspective. How much would you pay for these newer closed-loop pump storage facilities? The biggest challenge with anything pump storage-related is the high capital cost at the beginning of a project. And so where some of the project economics get a little more complicated is: are you looking at a ten-year payback period for storage or are you looking at it from ... some of these assets can last 100 years.Like what's the appetite when thinking about entering into a PPA or building out a project? And there's also the complication — and this is similar to other forms of storage: Are you generation or are you transmission? Are you deferral or are you providing that power? How does your power count essentially within a PPA? The other challenge is too is oftentimes when we're looking at some of these bigger closed-loop pump storage systems, you're building them to complement renewables that haven't come online yet. So how do you also enter into types of contracts?You're like, "Hey, we want to build this facility because there's going to be a ton of wind and solar." And if there isn't a ton of wind and solar, it's like, well, we actually need that storage. So you run into this chicken and egg scenario. What do you build first? A big closed-loop pump storage facility that's going to take seven to ten years to commission? Do you wait for the intermittent renewables to come online to a point where you need the storage? Or do you really start to look now at thinking about what does your grid look like in ten years and take a more long-term capital risk to build out some of these larger things?David RobertsWeird planning for the future. What a thought. When we think about the potential, if there are 15, what did you say ... ?Jennifer Garson15,000.David Roberts... sites where closed-loop pumped hydro could work, then do we know what sort of capacity that represents? I mean, that's a lot of storage.Jennifer GarsonIt's a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of gigawatts. Now that's the site feasibility. The practical feasibility of how much could we actually develop is something that we're analyzing right now because it was only just last year that we decided to kind of reopen the book on, okay, let's not just thinking about it from where we see site developers coming in and applying FERC permits, FERC licenses, where others are really trying to determine where the best sites are suited. Let's use an analytical perspective to say, where, from a geographical perspective, could you feasibly build closed-loop pump storage?But we're working on a second order analysis to kind of scrub, what does it look like from a total, not just technical feasibility, but practical feasibility of how much pump storage we could add? Because we don't want to say that it's going to be thousands of gigawatts without really having some analysis behind it. But we are really looking at this through both a hydrofuture study and a pump storage study that we'll have going pretty soon to look at that total, feasible storage that we can actually capture through closed-loop pump storage.David RobertsBecause you hear all these talks about long duration storage, all this buzz, people are banding about all kinds of wacky technologies and possibilities, but you just don't hear pumped-hydro mentioned a lot in those discussions.Jennifer GarsonI think ...David RobertsNeed better PR.Jennifer GarsonWe do need better PR. We need better PR and all forms of water power technologies — no offense to the technologies I care about a whole lot. But no, you're right. A lot of times we're talking about long-duration storage technologies that are still kind of bench-scale prototypes. And it's things that I fundamentally believe in. But I actually, before I was in the waterpower office, spent a majority of my career in DOE on commercialization, and I've seen how long it takes for products to get from a lab prototype to bench scale to first of a pilot to actual commercializable technologies.And my concern is if we bank all of our long-duration storage needs on technologies that are still at that pilot or commercial demo scale, we may run into kind of a tipping point on the grid where we really need what works now. But I do think that there has been more momentum both here and abroad looking at pump storage as a practical solution. And even Secretary Granholm has expressed interest in pump storage. The Loan Guarantee office is also looking at pump storage. So I do think they're slowly but surely gaining more momentum at the potential feasibility for pump storage.We're even working now with the Tennessee Valley Authority actually looking at pump storage. Duke is looking at pump storage. I just talked to someone in Pennsylvania, in the governor's office, that's also looking at pump storage. So I think as people are looking at the practicalities of the grid, 10 to 15 years out, if we really are going to scale wind and solar, we need to start planning for storage facilities now. And the reality is that closed-loop pump storage can work. You do have high capital costs. There are geotechnical concerns, but we know that it works because it's a water battery.You're pushing water up the hill to let it come back down. We know how to do that.David RobertsVery simple.Jennifer GarsonWe've been doing that a long time.David RobertsFinal question about water as storage, which is just, and this might be kind of a naive or a silly question, but it just seems like in the future, one of the things you're constantly hearing about is water is going to become more scarce. Basically, there's a lot of competing demands for water, and climate change is messing up a lot of our sort of seasonal water provision and just there's going to be water wars, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm just wondering, is that something you worry about, using water for this versus using water for other things? Do you think water itself is going to become sort of contested and difficult to get your hands on?Jennifer GarsonI mean, I think clean potable water is a challenge that we are definitely going to face as a country and as a world. I mean, as a country, we're actually pretty privileged to have pretty abundant freshwater resources. Now, whether or not those would be clean enough to drink I think is a key outstanding question. But in places like the Pacific Northwest and New England and even the Midwest, water availability isn't necessarily the top concern.Is it in the West? Yes. We actually wonder sometimes, or have been analyzing the potential for almost water abundance in areas where we don't want to have too much water because of flooding concerns or extreme events. So there's the kind of flip side of that, is it's not just about lack of water availability. Are we also building out infrastructure that can withstand higher forces of water, particularly through rivers and streams and waterways? But if you're looking at things like closed-loop pump storage, you're not going to have a ton of evaporative loss. So when you have these storage facilities, you're not really competing for fresh water availability.You're just trying to keep the reservoirs filled. And that is very different than trying to have the water needs for, say, fossil fuel plants or even nuclear, which have pretty high intensity water needs. But on fresh water availability, that's something that on the marine side of our portfolio that we think about as a potential for wave power to actually address, is the delivery of potable water. Because I do worry a lot about our ability to provide continuous fresh potable water for not just here in the United States, but abroad.David RobertsRight. Well, you've set up my segue perfectly then. So let's talk about the other side of your portfolio, which is energy in the ocean and how to get it out of the ocean. This is another area where I feel like it gives me like cellulosic biofuels vibes in that there's like super exciting ten years out and then was like super exciting ten years out 20 years ago and still super exciting ten years out. Is there —Jennifer GarsonIt's like fusion! No.David RobertsNot that bad. Come on now. Not that bad. I'm wondering, is there reason to think that any of these ocean technologies are any closer than they were ten years ago? Is this a real thing? And maybe just also, while you're at it, tell us, what are those technologies? I know there's tidal. I know there's something with buoys going up and down. There are probably others. What are we talking about in the ocean? And is it real? Is it really going to happen?Jennifer GarsonI think I wouldn't be directing a program for marine renewable energy. If I didn't think it was real, I'd probably try to find myself another job. No, the second question you actually asked is what are we talking about in terms of marine energy? And so the biggest sort of marine energy capture that we concentrate on are waves, tides, and then river and ocean currents. So the big buoys that falls into sort of the wave category, you can have everything from bottom mounted flaps that are trying to capture wave power to surface riding systems to systems that are within the water column.So the complication with waves, there really hasn't been a kind of convergence on the right structure or even where in the water column is most optimal for a power capture system. But I would say unlike even ten years ago where wave energy, you had a couple of projects that were out in Europe, we now are seeing an increasing number of in water deployments of wave energy systems, and it's working. So I would say here in the United States, we just had the longest wave energy demonstration project off of the Scripps Pier in California with Calwave, where they were producing electricity using the power of waves. And they even were able to sustain through a pretty powerful storm surge because that's always really complicated matter for waves, is being able to withstand a range of different forces.David RobertsRight. Well, this is what comes to mind. Intuitively, out in the ocean is just a brutal place. You got the wind and the tides and the storms, but also just saltwater corrosion and I don't know, fish. There's so many things to deal with. Are they being dealt with?Jennifer GarsonI think this isn't the first time we've dealt with infrastructure in the ocean either.David RobertsRight.Jennifer GarsonIt's hard, but it's not insurmountable. We're talking about materials for corrosion. We're doing research and even looking at can you use different methods to reduce corrosion impacts? Everything from coatings and materials to even the use of lasers for different etchings into materials to reduce corrosion? Biofouling is an issue. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that grows on infrastructure that's in the ocean, but we're trying to work on a multitude of ways for us to address or even potentially embrace biofouling from an environmental perspective. We do a lot in environmental monitoring around these devices. We put a substantial amount of funding on trying to understand the interaction of mammals, fish species, both from an acoustics perspective to any sort of entanglement perspective.And thus far, with our in water deployments, we're actually seeing compatibility instead of conflict. From an environmental perspective, that's because we're trying to design these systems with the environment in mind. But it is a hard environment. But the thing is, waves, tides, they're more predictable than other forms of electricity. So if we're really trying to hit our 100% decarbonization goals in 2050 or beyond, we're going to need solutions like marine energy in order to actually hit those targets.David RobertsTides come in every day.Jennifer GarsonTides come in every day. And actually on the West Coast, waves are predictable because you're talking about predicting waves that are coming basically from Asia. We have waves. I'm serious. It's why actually wave energy is almost easier on the west coast of Europe as it is sort of the West Coast or here for the United States because we have pretty complex models that actually can give us forecast for what our wave conditions are going to be like. So it gives us some good sense of predictability. Tides definitely 100% predictable. Unless the moon changes, which who knows?David RobertsWho knows? What does tidal energy look like? What do those machines look like?Jennifer GarsonSo there are a couple of different types of device designs right now in tidal energy. You're seeing more of a convergence on what tidal energy systems might or could look like, particularly looking both in the US and out in the EU. Some of them, like Verdant Power, which we supported a demonstration in New York, would look familiar to any of your listeners. It looks almost like tiny wind turbines on a triblade that goes underneath the water. So it's using the same kind of findings from wind of running a turbine, generating electricity, providing it to shore. There are other systems that are surface riding.So there are some European companies and Canadian companies that essentially have the operations and maintenance basically on the surface and then have turbines that go and submerge underneath the water, but they're still running either two or three blade turbines to capture power. So it's taking a lot of the lessons that were already learned in the wind industry and applying it for tidal power. And tidal power, I mean, we believe it a lot for here in the United States. Is it the largest resource to capture? No, that's wave. But there's a lot of tidal energy in New England, in the Pacific Northwest, and in particular in Alaska, where the potential resource is pretty massive.So actually we are in the next coming weeks, we have a notice of intent out already on this, but we're going to be funding a $45 million solicitation focused on tidal energy here in the United States. So both a commercial site with about $35 million and also for remote and islanded communities, and isolated communities another 10 million. So I think the the maturity of the tidal industry is definitely more mature right now than wave, but I think wave is starting to catch up. But if you look over at Europe again, they've had gigawatt hours of power provided by tidal energy at some of these sites that have already been delivered to the grid.So it may not always be as visible. Maybe it's because it's underneath the ocean or just on top of the ocean, but there's a lot of technological progress that we see in tidal and I see in the very near term for wave.David RobertsAnd this is in financial terms the same challenge basically you're facing with all these other technologies we're talking about, which is high upfront capital costs and then that pay off over a very long period of time, which is just always a difficulty when you're talking about financing.Jennifer GarsonIt is. And one of the challenges, too, for marine energy, and it's similar, I would say, to newer geothermal energy or long-duration storage, is in order to prove that it works, you have to be willing to fund some pretty serious demonstrations. And that takes a lot of capital that oftentimes, say, venture or even philanthropic capital isn't necessarily willing to take a risk on. Because to prove that the marine energy works, you have to get it in the ocean. And putting things in the ocean is a non-insubstantial cost. And so we're really trying to think about how do we demonstrate these systems take a lot of the risk and ownership on the US federal government in a way that we think will ultimately pay off. But that willingness to pay for demos or demonstrations of arrays is still going to be pretty high until you get to economies at scale.And so we either have to bet big, which I really hope we do here in the US, or we leave potentially this enormous 57% of all US power generation potential in the US stranded because you don't have that willingness to pay for these really expensive demos. But those demos are the only way we learn.David RobertsDidn't we just pass a bunch of legislation that is basically fire hosing money at all these things? Is some of that money going to do what you're just talking about going to kind of kickstart marine and tidal?Jennifer GarsonSo in the bipartisan infrastructure law, we did receive about $110 billion for marine renewable energy, $40 of that is for our national marine energy centers and the other $70.4 was actually for marine energy. But if you look at that in comparison to say, the funding that we're putting into direct air capture or hydrogen, it's nowhere near the level of investment that we've received from the federal government. And it's not just ... for us, I think we've seen the same thing for sustainable aviation fuel demonstrations or geothermal demonstrations, like, I think there are still a number of technologies that's going to take a lot of capital in order to really demonstrate the feasibility and get to economies at scale that weren't necessarily funded with the enormous lug of funding that we got now. There's a lot of money going around, and it's very exciting for me as someone who's been at DOE for 13 years, but it's not going to be sufficient, I think, for really driving down the cost of the whole portfolio of solutions that we're going to need to decarbonize everything by 2050.David RobertsWell, and the loan office plays some role there and there's supposedly going to be a green bank did that end up making it in? I forget what ... I think the Green Bank made it in. So maybe there'll be some ongoing sources for some of this funding.Jennifer GarsonTotally agree. And we work with our Loan Guarantee Office partners to understand what are those pathways into kind of commercial viability that. And we are also working with the Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations to understand what's the role of the Water Power Office at Derisking. Some of these pilot technologies moving into an office like the demonstration office and eventually being well primed for the Loan Guarantee Program office, because LPO really wants to see that these technologies have been successful at a pre-commercial scale. But even that gap between pilot and pre-commercial scale for some of these energy systems is more complex than just one off projects.But we're thinking about it critically at having kind of an all of DOE approach to derisking and investing in these technologies and ultimately helping them scale.David RobertsThe one marine technology we didn't mention is ocean thermal something something.Jennifer GarsonOTEC is the acronym. It's Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion.Jennifer GarsonYes.David RobertsRight. I feel like I've been hearing that about that also for years and years and years and it never seems to amount to much. Is that going to, well, first of all, tell listeners what the heck we're talking about, but is that going to be a thing?Jennifer GarsonSo OTEC, for anybody who isn't as familiar with all forms of marine energy, is basically using the thermal differentiation between the warmer surface water and the deep sea cool water to, essentially, use that to harness power, without getting into more technical details.OTEC is also really hard. The round-trip efficiencies that we've seen for OTEC have been not awesome, but there are a number of sites that are looking at both. How do we potentially use seawater air cooling, so more like ambient temperatures instead of for power generation. There are some OTEC facilities too, particularly in the Pacific Islands. It is so geographically specific for OTEC feasibility. You really need to have a pretty quick drop off of the continental shelf in order to actually have that really cold deep water and warm surface water. So it's geographically constrained. The round-trip efficiency right now still needs a lot of work and similar to the story of other types of marine energy in order to do demos, it takes a lot of capital.But I know that there are developers looking in like Puerto Rico and Hawaii looking at the feasibility of OTEC. So I wouldn't discount it. It's just it faces some of the same challenges. But we've also been looking at even, can you lessen the amount of gradients that you need to think about Ocean Thermal Energy Capture? So we're actually working with a startup that is trying to use smaller gradients to power ocean observing systems. So if it can power it by essentially dropping the system down not that far, and using the same principle of warm to low generating power, maybe we can think about gradients in a different way, to not just be the really big, really deep pipes that are trying to run from the surface down to the deep ocean.David RobertsOne more thing about marine energy. Tell us what is the connection between marine energy and desalination? Or what is the, let's say, the hoped for connection between marine energy and desalination? Because I often hear them kind of discussed in the same breath.Jennifer GarsonSo over the last few years, we've really been looking at the potential for how would wave energy provide potable water. It started actually with analysis that we did at the National Renewable Energy Lab, looking at the feasibility from a power perspective. Does the power performance potential for waves, is it potentially compatible with reverse osmosis or for desalination processes? And interestingly enough, we found that it could actually be a good power source. So we actually developed a prize competition called waves to water prize, where we basically opened the aperture to say, there's only a limited number of ideas here.Can you bring us some really good ideas for wave power desalination, but starting small for things like disaster relief and recovery scenarios? Ultimately, over the course of three years, we developed systems that were both hydraulic, so kind of mechanically driven, and production of electricity to run RO systems. And what we saw through that prize, and now a subsequent $10 million solicitation that we're running right now, is there are a number of really promising solutions that, particularly on the hydraulic side, although some of the electricity, but using essentially the power of waves to run through membranes to desalinate water.David RobertsI have a super dumb question here, which is I'm picturing these wave machines out in the middle of the ocean. Are they producing clean water like on-site? Do you have to go harvest the water from the machine? How does the delivery of the water from the machine to where it's needed work?Jennifer GarsonGreat question. The answer right now is maybe both. I think it's more feasible to imagine that essentially the reverse osmosis system is running. You're basically pumping water back to an onshore reverse osmosis system in a high pressure pump. And so you're getting the fresh water at a tank act, actually at a pier or on the shore. So you're essentially just using piping systems so that the water delivery is onshore. There are some companies that are thinking about almost like bladders to be filled out for production in the more near shore. You're not looking at right now, like, really deep offshore, but could you collect water through these bladders, have some sort of collection methodology, and bring it back to shore?So I think we're both looking at kind of on device production and essentially the system just being a conduit for either that power mechanical force to run a reverse osmosis system onshore. We're hopefully going to see over the next couple of years we're going to be funding a number of demos and we're seeing a number of demos also pop up in Europe in particular at looking at wave power decal. But I think we're going to need solutions for desalination that doesn't just require either really big, large energy systems or only diesel generators because we're going to need fresh water everywhere.And we're trying to think about the simplicity of design of some of these systems so that you can essentially just throw them out in the water with an anchor and be able to provide potable fresh water.David RobertsThat would be nice.Jennifer GarsonIt'd be awesome. Yeah, use the water to make water. What could be more simple but elegant if we can make it work?David RobertsSo on marine energy, then, as you said at the beginning, this is unlike hydro. Marine is in a sense among the newest or nascent or sort of cutting edge versions of renewable energy. So I guess before we leave this subject, I'm just curious, the next decade in marine energy, do you expect it to reach meaningful scale in that decade or is the next decade mainly going to be about figuring it out? Sort of like where do you expect marine energy to be in ten years?Jennifer GarsonIt's a complex answer I think when you're talking about grid scale marine energy devices. I think it'll take us the next ten years to really figure it out, get these systems in and out of the water and really producing larger volumes of electricity. But what I think the next decade really holds, it's really interesting, is the possibility of marine energy powering. What maybe from an energy perspective seems less meaningful, but from an end use perspective is incredibly meaningful. And what do I mean by that? I think we're seeing a lot of interesting solutions for powering, things like ocean observing.We know more about the surface of Mars than we do about the surface of our ocean floor and part of that is because of power limitations. And so we're working on a number of different companies that are either using kind of fixed platforms or floating platforms to provide power where we need it and that's to both understand and observe our ocean.David RobertsInteresting.Jennifer GarsonAnd I think over the next ten years you're going to see a lot of different devices that are harnessing power for ocean observing. There's also been a lot of meaningful progress at sort of the micro-grid scale for marine energy, whether it's tidal or it's wave energy, where we actually have a device up in a community of only 75 people in Alaska and Igiugig that's producing power to their grid right now. And I think we're going to see more of these small scale devices in places where power is incredibly meaningful. Even if it doesn't sound like a lot from a megawatt or gigawatt perspective.David RobertsThere's sort of bulk energy. Like we just need a lot of energy. But then there's also these, as you say, these local sort of resilience benefits and these benefits specifically to a lot of vulnerable communities. Maybe just say a little bit more about that sort of how you envision hydro working. Maybe not at a large energy scale, but in some of these, but like in this community in Alaska, that's quite significant for them to have steady power. So talk about that a little bit.Jennifer GarsonI think it's a story for both hydropower and marine renewable energy that there are parts of our United States and parts of the world that they need to look to their waters in order to actually provide power, whether that's because of the seasonality or available resources. And we've been working with a number of communities, actually through a program called our Energy Transitions Initiative Partnership Project, where rather than say, here's a solution that you should have, maybe it's marine or hydro, but working with these communities to say what are your power and energy needs? And what are the types of systems that can get you to 100% renewables and off diesel dependency? And many communities that we're working with in Maine, the Pacific Northwest and Alaska in particular are looking at marine energy and small hydro as their pathways to releasing dependency from diesel generators or from really high cost other forms of energy.And even though these are kilowatts or megawatts, it's huge.David RobertsYeah, just to sort of put an exclamation point on that, you're talking about the sort of economics overall. But if you look at the economics specifically in these local situations, like diesel is gross, it's very expensive, it pollutes like crazy.Jennifer GarsonNot only that, it's the cost, right? And right now, the last couple of years, the price vulnerability of some of our more vulnerable communities in the United States are so impacted by diesel going up to prices that are literally unprecedented. And if you're a small community, how do you absorb that?David RobertsYeah, getting steady, predictable, just the predictableness of it, the predictable price of it. It's hard to put a value on that. That's very valuable in these local contexts.Jennifer GarsonIt is. And because if you are already paying a dollar, $52 a kilowatt hour, even if we're developing solutions that come in at say, 50-60 cents a kilowatt hour, that's still a substantial price savings, more predictable power and we have better health outcomes, better localized impacts. And

Welcome to Episode #381 of the 303 Endurance Podcast. We're your hosts Coach Rich Soares and 303 Chief Editor, Bill Plock. Thanks for joining us for another week of endurance interviews and discussion.   Oceanside 70.3 is well-known as the place to watch the top pros show off their early-season fitness, and this year is no exception. Even with last-minute drops from the likes of Jan Frodeno, Lionel Sanders and Jackie Hering, there's still an impressive start list for both the women's and men's pro races.   Show Sponsor: UCAN Generation UCAN has a full line of nutrition products powered by LIVESTEADY to fuel your sport.   LIVSTEADY was purposefully designed to work with your body, delivering long-lasting energy you can feel. LIVSTEADY's unique time-release profile allows your body to access energy consistently throughout the day, unlocking your natural ability to stay focused and calm while providing the fuel you need to meet your daily challenges.   Use UCAN in your training and racing to fuel the healthy way, finish stronger and recover more quickly!  Use the code 303UCAN for 20% off at ucan.co/discount/303UCAN/ or ucan.co   In Today's Show Endurance News - Oceanside 70.3 Pro start list,  Jonny Brownlee and Gustav Iden Arena Games London; Mental Mastery with Mark Allen Brain-Boosting Workout for a Stronger Bike Leg What's new in the 303 - South Table Mountain, Unending Trails, Unending mystery; Anatomy of a Running Gait Analysis Video of the Week - Why did the chicken cross the road? Amazing crash avoidance and bike handling   Endurance News:   Oceanside start list is out: full of big names, but no Jan Frodeno March 20, 2022 Oceanside is well-known as the place to watch the top pros show off their early-season fitness, and this year is no exception. Even with last-minute drops from the likes of Jan Frodeno, Lionel Sanders and Jackie Hering, there's still an impressive start list for both the women's and men's pro races, featuring some of the top names in long-course racing (plus a few surprises from the short-course side of the sport). We've broken down the top contenders, plus a few wild cards who could be major players on Saturday.   Want to watch it all play out? Ironman 70.3 Oceanside will be streamed live for free on Outside Watch, beginning at 6 a.m. PT/9 a.m. ET Saturday, April 1. The broadcast will be available on-demand after the finish to all Outside+ members. Become an Outside+ member today and get access to the full streaming library of 70.3 racing any time, on any device.   Both the men's and women's races in Oceanside promise to be incredibly competitive. In addition to Sanders, the men's list includes defending men's champion Ben Kanute, his countryman Sam Long, who is fresh off a couple of victories at Clash Miami and Challenge Puerto Varas (which could mean he'll take a pass on Oceanside), two-time Olympic gold medalist Alistair Brownlee (GBR), Australian Sam Appleton, along with Americans Rudolph Von Berg and Matt Hanson (USA). (To name just a few – there are a number of Ironman and 70.3 champions in the field.)   full pro list here   The women's field is every bit as stacked. Defending champion Paula Findlay (CAN) is back, but she'll face a really tough field that includes five-time 70.3 world champion (and four-time Kona champ) Daniela Ryf, 2016 70.3 world champ Holly Lawrence (GBR), Australia's Ashleigh Gentle, who is fresh off a big win at Clash Miami and American Taylor Knibb, who excelled at both World Triathlon and long-distance races last year – her incredible season included a silver medal in the mixed relay, the fastest time of the day at the Collins Cup and a bronze medal at the 70.3 worlds. Chelsea Sodaro is the defending IM World Champ who has been struggling with depression is also planning to race.   As we get closer to the race, which takes place on April 2, we should have a clearer idea of who will actually end up at the race – even if a few athletes pull out, though, it should be an incredibly competitive day.   https://www.tri247.com/triathlon-news/elite/ironman-70-3-oceanside-start-list-bib-numbers-pro-men   Jonny Brownlee and Gustav Iden confirmed for Arena Games London By Jonathan Turner 22 Mar 2023 Four star names have been added to the line-up for the Arena Games finale in London on April 8.   Three-time Olympic medallist Jonny Brownlee, IRONMAN World Champion Gustav Iden, the 2022 Arena Games Triathlon champion Beth Potter and last year's London winner Cassandre Beaugrand have all been confirmed as intended starters.   They can't compete for the overall World Championship title as they haven't raced in either of the first two events in Montreal and Switzerland, but they are sure to add intrigue to the finals which will feature 18 of the top 20 ranked women and men in the series.   Brownlee will be back in Arena Games action Norwegian star Iden won the IMWC title at his first attempt in record-breaking style in Kona last year to add to his two Ironman 70.3 World Championships and is also aiming for the Paris Olympics as he switches his focus back to short-course racing.   On the women's side last year's overall winner Potter could head into London in better form following the Scot's maiden WTCS victory in Abu Dhabi.   And she'll be joined France's Beaugrand, who had a perfect record in England last season – winning both Arena Games and Super League in London as well as the WTCS event in Leeds.   The favourites to become the official triathlon esports World Champions are the respective winners from Montreal and Sursee – Chase McQueen and Henri Schoeman in the men's field and Gina Sereno and Zsanett Bragmayer in the women's.   There is also plenty of British interest aside from Brownlee and Potter for home fans with Olivia Mathias – second in Sursee – Kate Waugh, Dan Dixon and Jack Stanton-Stock all racing.   Mental Mastery with Mark Allen Week 5: A Brain-Boosting Workout for a Stronger Bike Leg This week's Mental Mastery workout from six-time Ironman World Champion Mark Allen will improve your mind's ability to tell your legs how to get those bigger watts and how to sustain them. MARCH 27, 2023 MARK ALLEN    Heading out the door? Read this article on the new Outside+ app available now on iOS devices for members! Download the app.   Of all three sports, cycling is the one that usually evokes an image of strength equating to faster performances. Think of your glutes and quads: If those are toned and able to push, you are going to be a faster cyclist. But if you've also got a strong brain, you can take those strong legs to the next level.   This week's Mental Mastery workout is all about improving muscle recruitment. Some athletes try to accomplish this by doing extended periods in a big gear and low cadence rates. But that mostly just teaches you how to ride in a big gear at a low cadence rate without increasing your ability to push and sustain higher watts. Instead, I've shared a workout to improve both of those things for you. The secret? Staying focused. The Mental Mastery components of this workout will improve your mind's ability to tell your legs how to get those bigger watts and how to sustain them!   I often did this type of workout (but in a much less structured way) during group rides. There would be constant points where I had to suddenly accelerate or get dropped, and often the accelerations were accompanied with a jump up in gearing to be able to go fast enough. These accelerations were so much faster than I would ever go in a triathlon, which reset the gauge of how fast I was able to ride making race pace much more tolerable mentally as well as doable physically.   For one year early in my career, I committed to doing single-leg drills twice a week for almost every single week. That was also the season where I made the largest gains ever in my cycling. At the Ironman that year (1984) I came off the bike with a 12-minute lead on all other contenders. Unfortunately, I didn't have the marathon yet to back up the cycling, but the message was clear: This drill works.   Week 5: Key Strength Bike Workout and Mental Mastery Drills The workout this week has two parts, just like last week's session in swimming. The first is going to be done on a stationary trainer, and the second can be done on a trainer or on the road. Along with each of these two short workouts will be your Mental Mastery drills that will help you not only gain mastery over the physical workout, but will strengthen your ability to integrate mind and body into one cohesive unit.     What's New in the 303: South Table Mountain, Unending Trails, Unending mystery By Bill Plock   Golden, March 2023–The small one-engine plane droned loudly overhead under filtered sun. It would rise and almost stall. Then it quietly glided, nose slightly down, for a few seconds before the engine sputtered alive as it leveled off. I supposed that is some sort of emergency training.   I stood in the middle of South Table Mountain. Curious if the pilot chose this area to practice with its wide open flat top formed about 65 million years ago during a lava flow. It might look flat but there are plenty of undulations of rock that would make for a bumpy landing.   The plane kept climbing and stalling, the sputtering engine drone was annoying in this otherwise peaceful and majestic place. The plane's peculiar behavior mirrored the history of this mountain. I reflected on the 50 years or so I have been exploring it as it continues to unveil questions about what has transpired here for decades, centuries, millennia really. It's the ultimate historical striptease.   Every time I'm there I see or experience something that makes the journey memorable. It's got a vibe, a little like the forbidden zone in Planet of the Apes, a little like an old Western movie sprinkled with a smidgeon of mystery from a true crime show. But with overarching nature and beauty.   Long before the area was invaded by gold seekers, native Ute's conducted ceremonies and burials on top. Grapeshot thought to be from early Spanish explorers was found in 1895 and In 1869 a trail was cut to the top of Castle Rock.   Mysterious structures and piles of rubble, quarries, a shooting range, and utility poles poke out of the lunar landscape crisscrossed with 16 miles of trails. Bikers roll on gravel and mountain bikes. The smooth trails are also perfect for exploring on foot. Skyscrapers in Denver dot the Eastern horizon while the front range of the Rocky Mountains cascades to the West with the town of Golden nestled in the valley between South Table Mountain and Lookout Mountain.   The prominent Castle Rock on the western edge welcomes explorers to perch on top and view Golden and beyond. Castle Rock once housed a cafe built in 1906 and in 1913 visitors could ride a funicular to the top where a casino had been built. The scar from the rails is easy to see making a straight line on the north side of the rock formation.   By the 1920s the casino had turned into the Lava Lane, a whites-only dance hall offering jazz music and a place to congregate during Prohibition. Business faded and the building was taken over by Ku Klux Klan members as a meeting place. In 1923, almost a thousand white-robed members of the Ku Klux Klan met at the summit of South Table Mountain. According to the Colorado Transcript, “A large fiery cross had been erected on the highest point of Castle Rock and it burned throughout the ceremonies, visible for several miles.” In 1927 the building burned to the ground.   In 1905 Camp George West was built on the south side of South Table Mountain and military maneuvers took place on top. In 1969 the Colorado State Patrol moved to Camp George West eventually building a testing track on top which is also used for bike racing in the summer. In the 1990s Nike attempted to purchase the land and wanted to build a 5,000-person office building, but they pulled out. Rumor has it they were just threatening to receive better tax advantages to stay in Oregon.   As a kid growing up on the eastern face of the mountain, most of it was off-limits to visitors. But thanks to Jeffco Open Space acquiring land over the years, most of it is now accessible. There are seasonal closures in areas to protect raptor populations. Trailheads are found on the East, South and West sides of the mountain in neighborhoods and just east of the National Renewable Energy Lab. The north side is home to Rolling Hills Country Club with very limited access.   The approaches from the west and south sides rise gently from the parking areas and are more doable for gravel bikes than the steeper trail from Golden accessing Castle Rock. Once on top, trails make loops and circumnavigate most of the top edges with trails cutting through the middle. They are a combo of crushed rock and hardened dirt. With so many loops and fun, quick-hit hills to navigate you can piece together all kinds of routes that never get stale.   You will see some mysterious things and in the summer be aware of the large population of rattlesnakes.   The plane finally left and flew east towards Denver. The songs of birds filled the air and a couple of deer emerged from the brush as my feet crunched the small pebbly path curiously looking at graffiti on the gun range I had never seen.   Anatomy of a Run Gait Analysis Capturing Video - front, side and back. Full length of body. Tools - software to import the video and slow down to .10 speed and draw angles Propulsion: Force to move runner forward. Maximize energy spent in this plane. Vertical Displacement: Force to move the runner upward. Minimize energy spent in this plane. Support: Force downward to cushion landing. Includes Angle of Displacement (Braking) Minimize. Acceleration: Force to overcome braking and maintain average pace. Minimize Balance: Force when in contact with ground to maintain balance. Minimize. Limb Movement: Energy moving arms. Minimize Running Energy/Vectors Cadence Target 170-180 Steps/Minute Body Lean 3-6° Steady/10° Max Elbow Angle 80-90° @ Elbows Angle of Displacement -0° Balance (GCT) 200*-300ms Vertical Displacement/Support 6-10cm Hip Alignment Left Stance Leg Hip Alignment Right Stance Leg Shoulder Alignment Left Stance Leg Shoulder Alignment Right Stance Leg Pronation  (15° or more could be a deviation/inefficiency) Supination (5° or more could be a deviation/inefficiency) Heel Height Symmetry Target Metrics Supination Hip drop Leg Kicks out Corrective Mobility and Strength     Video of the Week: WILDEST thing I've EVER seen on a bike   Closing: Thanks again for listening in this week.  Please be sure to follow us @303endurance and of course go to iTunes and give us a rating and a comment.  We'd really appreciate it! Stay tuned, train informed, and enjoy the endurance journey!

With growing conflicts over solar development on farm land, dual use may provide middle ground and enough income to help small farmers keep farming. That's how Byron Kominek found himself putting a solar garden on one of his hay fields and hosting teams of agrivoltaic researchers. Colorado farmers Byron Kominek and Liza McConnell and Jordan Macknick, head of agrivoltaic research at the National Renewable Energy Lab,  find some crops grow better and use less water with solar shade than in direct sun. 

More information on how renewable use less land that fossil fuels and aren't destroyed permanently in the process. Nikola Motors CEO found guilty of 3 of 4 charges. Some thing EV charging at night won't always be cheap. Greece runs on 100% renewables for five hours. VW has hired Ewan McGregor to help them sell EVs. Brian expolores a graphic novel that illustrates life in the Canadian Oil Sands. “A masterpiece, a heartbreak, a nightlight shining in the dark.”—Patricia Lockwood Here's a link!  UK PM Truss not doing well after I called her dumb last week for not wanting to see solar panels on farmland. Scrapped her whole economic reform plan. Tesla might remove downtown Toronto geofence with FSD Beta 10.69.3. Kia EV6 Wholesale GLOBAL Shipments In September 2022 Amounted To 6,109. Worse than last year. What's up with Kia and EVs? They make great cars, advertise the hell out of them but never make enough. Carbon Capture Projects Hit Record but still only 1% of global carbon emissions when built. Tweet of the Week responds to criticism of climate protesters in recent days. Offshore Construction Starts on Japan's First Floating Wind Farm. JinkoSolar achieves 26.1% efficiency in panels. Rewewable energy workforce as more female representation than fossil fuels. Researchers develop a 10 minute EV charging method by adding a thin strip of nickel to batteries for cooling. Thanks for listening to our show! Consider rating The Clean Energy Show on iTunes, Spotify or wherever you listen to our show. Follow us on TikTok! Check out our YouTube Channel! Follow us on Twitter! Your hosts: James Whittingham https://twitter.com/jewhittingham Brian Stockton: https://twitter.com/brianstockton Email us at cleanenergyshow@gmail.com Leave us an online voicemail at http://speakpipe.com/cleanenergyshow Transcript Hello, and welcome to episode 135 of the Clean Energy Show. I'm Brian Stockton. I'm James Woodingham. This week, some facts to compare fossil fuel and land use with renewables. Your racist cycle is not going to be happy. The founder and former CEO of Nicola Motors has been found guilty of fraud. Turns out rolling a truck down a hill and pretending it works can get you in trouble. It may get more expensive to charge an EV overnight. And it has nothing to do with the fact that I now get up to pee six times a night. The country of Greece runs on 100% renewable energy. For the first time, the Olympic torch is lit by the sun. So why not all the lights in the country, too? Oh, that is so much more on this edition of The Clean Energy Show. Well, welcome to the podcast, everyone. Also this week, VW has hired you and a Gregor to help them sell EVs. Brian has his first ever book report. Looking forward to that. And a corporation based where Brian and I live is betting big on nuclear revival thanks to the war in Ukraine and other factors. You sound funny this week, Brian. Are you under the weather? Yeah, I got a cold. How do you know? I thought colds were eradicated. Yeah, this is my second cold since the start of the pandemic. Are you looking telephone poles? What's going on here? Yeah, well, we took a plane trip, as you know, last weekend, to Whistler. I knew you would get diseased. Yeah, I mean, I was kind of worried we'd get coveted. Didn't get coveted, but we caught a cold. My partner got it first. I was a few days behind. I thought I may have escaped it, but it's starting kind of yesterday and my head is slowly filling up with fluid. It's rather unpleasant. Oh, no. You remember before COVID when you used to fly? No. It always seemed like I would always get a cold whenever I flew somewhere. I don't know. I mean, everybody trapped on an airplane like that and not wearing that. They say that air is recirculated and filtered, but I don't think it's just too close to quarters. Do you put on an air in your face? Because I'm always a bit warm on planes. Like I make sure I get the air going on my face. Do you do that? Yes. And we discussed that as we got on the plane because I said to my partner, well, wait a minute. Is this like, COVID filled air that I'm putting in my face or is this fresh, clean air? And it has just gone through the filter. So presumably that is the fresh, clean air. It always smells fresher to me. It always smells like it's mixed like a car vent, like it's mixed in with outdoor air. I don't know that it is. It'd be nice if it was, but there's not enough oxygen up there at 35 0ft to do that mixed in with new plain smelling. I think I would just wear the oxygen mask. Just drop the oxygen mask and put that on for the trip. Well, that would be fantastic. They should just let us have those. It should be enhanced air with nice, relaxing demerol vaporized or something that just puts you at ease and wake up wherever you're going. Guess what? The pipeline plane flew over the other day. I walked up my front door and there it was looking at me. Well, so it's mac, which is a relief. Perhaps why I haven't noticed it is I noticed because I went to my app and it's fine a few hundred feet higher than it was before. It's fine at 200ft before. Yeah. Now it's up to 500ft. I don't know if that has anything to do with the crash that was fatal. Yeah. To recap, James has a pipeline behind his house and there's a plane that inspects it pretty much every day. But, yeah, there was a crash of one of these planes not that long ago and so it disappeared for a while. And you say now that it's back, it's actually flying higher? Yeah. I mean, it could be the same plane. I don't know that it's the one that crashed or if they were grounded or if they re looked at how they did these things, but it seemed like it was gone for a few weeks because I noticed it. It's hard to say how often it came. It seemed to vary, but it was multiple times a week, I would say, and I do live in a city, it doesn't inspect it that often outside the city? Just inside the city. It has frequent flights and that goes right back to the airport 10 minutes later. Well, you always hear about these pipelines and I don't know, sometimes they're leaking for probably hours or even days before anybody notices. Well, let's get to some updates to some of the stories that we've talked about over the past. There's a few. This week we were talking about PM Trust. Yeah. The new UK prime Minister. And I called her dumb dumb dumb last week. Yeah, she's really dumb. And that's because she doesn't like the site of solar panels on farms and she was going to kibash solar everywhere. How dumb can you be? I ask. And, well, turns out the country is in agreement. Not for that reason, but mostly for other reasons. In fact, how is this Trust doing? 83% say badly, 15% say, well, should she resign? 55% say yes, and I'm in that 55%. Although who knows who they're going to get in their place. But come on. There's so much data for renewables being a good thing in this energy crisis, like saving billions over the summer, reducing the amount of Russian gas imports by 13% from the growth of it. It's just crazy. I mean, there's all kinds of numbers you can look at. We talked about Tesla not having their full selfdriving beta software, which you use, being applicable in downtown Toronto. You mentioned that before, but now it sounds like it will be. Yeah, this is a while ago. So Toronto has streetcars, one of the few, maybe only city in Canada that has streetcars. Yeah. The full self driving software thus far has not known how to deal with streetcars. And so, just to be safe, Tesla has basically geofenced the software. So anywhere downtown Toronto, where there is streetcars, you can't use full selfdriving beta until they figure out how to program in streetcars. And yeah, apparently they're getting close because rumors that the geofence will be removed soon. Yeah. I was watching one of these informational videos on YouTube about how Toronto is a car city. And these streetcars everywhere, these have them in Mount Pleasant, where my friend Dan lives up north and all kinds of different places, and they had a vote to get whether they keep them or not. Everybody resoundingly wanted them. So what they do, they get rid of them. They wanted to make room for more cars. They built the subway to make room for more cars. That's what I was thinking. Was it's too bad, because out here in the west, canada is kind of sparsely populated, and our cities are kind of spread out. But in the central or eastern part of Canada, like Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, that's the densest population that we have in Canada. So Toronto, particularly, there's several million people that live in Toronto, a lot of them in the concentrated in the downtown core. So public transit is a no brainer. Subways and streetcars are a no brainer, and, you know, they've done fairly well at that. But yes, surprisingly, it is still kind of a car city. But I have been watching a YouTube channel, can't think of the name of it right now, but there is a guy, a transit nerd in Toronto, who's reporting on all of the transit projects. So things actually do look bright. I think things are improving. There are subway expansions planned and streetcar light rail expansions planned. They have lots of stuff in the works. And they've added a lot of bike lanes, too. That's really a positive sign. Definitely. You and I lived there ten or 15 years ago, and there wasn't that many bike lanes 20 years ago. I guess more than 20 years ago for me. Jesus. Oh, my God. Wow. Yeah. I mean, it was still kind of fun to bike in Toronto. I remember you and I biked there's a nice path down by the waterfront. You and I bike down and watch the fireworks one night. That was a lot of fun. The only thing is that it borders the Dawn Valley Parkway, which is a freeway, and you get all the exhaust and all the pollution. Yeah. As a prairie boy, it was very disconcerting to see the distant trees obscured by smog, which just sort of gathered in the valley like that and Stunky. There's a smell to it always. But a lot of people die. Cyclists die in Toronto, so it's not a safe place. But I remember cycling downtown. I lived adjacent to downtown, and East York used to take a half hour to get to the heart of downtown by bike, which was more enjoyable in the summertime than taking the subway and waiting and getting stuff like Sardines somewhere and whole noise of everything. But, yeah, bike lanes are tough in cities like that. But it's also got the busiest freeway in North America, too. The 401 is national. Yeah, massive, massive freeway. Dozens of lanes. It seems like the Kia EV six. Now, I was shocked to learn that that came out almost 18 months ago now, on the spring of 21. I thought it was in the last three quarters of a year for some reason. Maybe it's because I heard about it and I didn't pay much attention to it because it was a similar vehicle to the Onik Five. Although it's not a direct comparison, necessarily, in aesthetics and appeal. They sold only 6100 units of that worldwide in September. And if that isn't shocking enough, that's actually down from the year before. Down? Yeah. Well, I assume it's just because it's production, not sales. I mean, I'm sure they can sell everyone that they make. They just need to make more of them. Yeah, they're not but that's a major problem. Brian, that gets my trombone of the Week. Yes, thank you for the emphasis. I'm very disgusted by this. So the narrow EVs sold 4500. The sole EVs outside of this is outside of South Korea. The sole EV sold a whopping. Are you sitting down? Yes, you are. The Sole EV. Tell me something. You can't sit there and your pompous Kia asked and tell me that they're not Asianizing EVs, that they're not taking the same sort of ideas Japan and saying, we don't believe in them because they're making great avs and pisses me off so bad. I watched a football game and NFL game, and there was nothing but EV ads, including the Onik Five. Great ad, great car. Can I buy it? Nope, you can't buy it. Why are you advertising it? There's lots of other stories like that, too. Why are they selling them? Why are they pretending that they can sell them? Are they trying to get people into the dealership to sell combustion engines? I mean, what's going on? Are they just trying to look like they're advanced or do they just not give a crap? And I think they're probably trying to stop people from going to EVs that are available. So if you're a loyal Kia or Hyundai owner, then you can think to yourself, okay, well, there's Kias on the horizon. There's some reviews out lately on the web of the Ionic Six, which is the upcoming Hyundai. But it's not coming till next year. But they've let out some sort of review models and there's lots of YouTube reviews and yeah, it looks like a great car, but again, it's not going to be available for at least a year. It's premature to even do that. I'm going to forget about it by the time I could actually order one. I mean, it's going to be ancient history. But it also looks like a great car. Well, yeah, of course it is. That's the frustrating part. If they weren't great cars, it wouldn't be so frustrating. Wouldn't it? But they're making great cars. They seem to know what they're doing. But have they secured the batteries? Do they want to make them? Doesn't seem that way. Yeah. Well, we have an update coming up later on from VW that addresses some some of these issues. And when you can buy them, you certainly can't buy them where Brian and I live because we're not in a Zev zero emission vehicle jurisdiction or anything like that, and we're not in Europe, so that kind of sucks. Yeah. You have one here. Greece was powered by renewables. Yeah, I just always like good news stories like this. It's going to become more prevalent. So at a certain point, we will have to stop reporting on these because it's just too common an event. But yeah. Greece, for around 5 hours ran on 100% renewables on October 7. Yeah, I just love stories like that because it's a sign of things to come. It shows us that this stuff is working. I assume the people who are against clean energy take it the opposite way, like, well, it only ran for 5 hours. That doesn't count. We get the 2050 people. I tell you, when our jurisdiction runs on 100% renewables for 10 seconds. I'll soil my dance on the podcast. No, that'll be a day for celebration. We'll have some championships. Tell you what, dig up my corpse and put a birthday cake on it when that happens because it's going to be something from Bloomberg. Carbon capture projects hit a record. So the pipeline of carbon capture projects rises to 153. Pardon me, 30 are operational right now, including one in our jurisdiction, which is at a coal plant, one of the first in the world. And it's not performing up the specs at all. Planned projects that are planned, remember, not existing, but planned, would mitigate less than 1% of CO2 emissions. And the problem, in addition to just being 100%, is that it continues investments in fossil fuels. It's another way of prolonging fossil fuels, which, as anyone who listens to the show on a regular basis knows, makes James angry. James doesn't want to be angry. Takes days off my life. Brian well, as I've said before, I was kind of in favor of this because we are a coal burning place where we live. And they started talking about this 2025 years ago, and back then, it's like, oh, that kind of makes sense because we just didn't know enough back then. It was exciting. I was excited. It was very exciting at the time. But also, bureaucracies are lumbering and slow, so it took them forever to get it off the ground. And now that these things are running, we know that they're just too expensive and they don't produce the results. So let's just buy solar panels with the money instead. I remember when they opened it, they invited dignitaries from around the world into a tent. But it has a weird vibe. It's like there was no one commenting on it, no one's had anything to say. And they were hoping to export the technology. Not only did they invest billions of dollars, but they wanted to export that technology, which I'm sure they've learned a couple of things that they can export and maybe patent. But critics argue that it's expensive, ineffective technology that just prolongs the life of fossil fuels, which I'm sure our local governments here would love to do. Yeah. And I guess there was a possibility that they could take what they learned and refine the technology and make it cheaper and make it more viable, but so far, that has not been the case. Well, I'm excited, Brian, because it's time for a brand new segment on the show. the first time you've sang on a sink and probably the last. Hey, I harmonize with myself. Yeah, I watched my friend Who Can Sing do that for video projects that I used to work on. So I tried it and it kind of worked. But, you know, next time you got multiple tracks there if you want to let's play that again. Yeah, because we may never hear it again. So yeah, I have to play it twice. Well, it seems unlikely. Yeah. It's not often that it's going to be appropriate to talk about a book. I mean, how many can you read? You're just retired. Yeah, and I certainly don't typically read books about climate or clean energy or climate change or whatever, but this one is an exception because it's a picture book, which barely even counts as a book. It's a graphic novel, really. It's a graphic memoir. So this is a book called Ducks my memoir. Two Years in the Oil Sands. Yeah. Ducks. Two years in the oil sands. And it's by Kate Beaton, and it is published by my favorite publisher, which is Drawn in Quarterly. They publish graphic novels of all different kinds. That's a good name for a publishing company that publishes Drawn In Quarterly. They're the best. But yeah, this book is really great. So Kate Beaton is an artist from Cape Breton, Nova Scotia. From here in Canada. The east coast of Canada. And she graduated from university with a history degree around 15 years ago or so. And graduated with a mountain of student debt. And so she was kind of looking at the jobs that were available to her with a history degree, like working in museums and stuff, and she was like, oh my God, I'm going to be 90 years old by the time I pay off my student debt. So she like a lot of people from Cape Breton, from Newfoundland, from the east coast of Canada, took a job in the oil sands of Canada, which is here in Alberta, next door to us in Alberta. This is kind of based around the city of Fort McMurray, kind of northern Alberta. That's the kind of base for many of these oil sands operations, which are, as we discussed before, the dirtiest oil on the planet comes from there. The amount of energy you have to expend to extract this oil because it's all mucked up with sand and everything. So it's a very, you know, carbon intensive, energy intensive way to get oil out of the ground. But, you know, with the price of oil, it's been a lucrative place for many years. So, yeah, she spent two years in the oil sands, paid off her student debt, which is the happiest part of the book, like she did completely after two years. Wow. Yeah, you make a lot of money. You're often provided housing. Sometimes you live in the town of Fort McMurray, which is a fairly big town, so that's kind of civilized. But quite often you work on site or you work in these work camps where the oil rigs are and all this stuff. So it's kind of isolated work, and you'll often work like twelve days on and have two days off, that kind of thing. And yeah, with your housing kind of paid for, you can just bank a lot of money or spend it on cocaine, which is apparently a thing that also happens a lot. I never said that again. Yeah, it's a really beautiful book. There are many things about it that are heartbreaking, but yeah, it's just awesome. Highly recommended. It's a real honest portrait of what goes on in the oil sands. So there's sad parts about it, but also funny parts and fun parts, and there's a real humanity to it. Highly recommend. Well, send me a link and I'll put it in the show notes for Gosh. Thanks. So check your show notes, people. I assume that there will be a link close to the top of the notes there. Okay. Because my son's got a buddy who was in psychology at our local university. He switched over to history and I just, my God, that's worse than film. You and I did, I felt chills come over me. It was kind of bad, like, you poor bastard. Psychology. We need lots of people in psychology more than ever. History, not so much. Yeah. And the author, Kate Bean, she's most known for a book and a website called heart of Vagrant, which is history based. She sort of did these humorous cartoons about history, which she knows a lot about because she has a history degree. But if you've ever wondered what life is like in the oil sands, this is probably your best chance to find out what that's like. Well, there's a new Stanford University study that Forbes had a piece about. It about EV charging at night may not stay cheap through the EV adoption curve. Now, the thinking is that with everybody having EVs, they're all going to charge at night. So the power, they're not going to have excess power at night. They're going to have enough or they're going to have to keep up even. I don't know how much you drive, but I might charge like an hour or two a day. You know, a lot of things that I'll just charge an hour or two. I'm not talking to people with long commutes or buying EVs to save money, and that's obviously a different story. And highway travel and vacations. But typically, I mean, statistically people travel 2030, 40 miles a day, and that's an hour or two of charging, essentially. And, you know, we come home and we turn on our clothes dryers and our ovens every night and the grid doesn't go down. So we've gained a lot of efficiencies in those things too, right? Yeah, I guess the only issue would be that they're used to having very low usage overnight. So a lot of the systems within the grid are planned for that. But they should be able to tweak those plans and make more power available overnight. Well, here's what they said. They said that the researchers estimate the impact of rising EV ownership in the western United States could boost power demand by as much as 25% by 2035. That's the year when California has banned the sale of new gasoline vehicles. Doesn't mean they're all going to be EVs by then, of course. It just means that you can't go out and buy one. So charging after eleven will get more expensive, they figure, and push utility operators to boost their power generation. They say that more EV charging should be done during midday hours, ideally at work or public stations. Now this is when maybe this is not necessarily every day, right, but when the solar. There's days when they have access. Solar. It's already happening in California. We talked about it. Lots of news stories talk about it. So when wind and solar power suppliers are at their peak, sometimes producing more energy than the grid can even handle. So California is set to have 5 million EVs by 2030. That's about 30% market share level. It's coming. And at that point, the electrical grid will experience significant stress, they think, according to that, unless there's increased capacity or behavioral changes. But this gets me to thinking, Brian, that we're going to just need a smarter grid, we're going to have to start thinking and being incentivized to charge when there is excess solar, when there is, because if I had a normal EV that you could buy for 4500 range, I would probably charge it once a week in the summertime, right? I mean, I wouldn't charge it very often. Well, maybe I wait until I get a note on my app saying power is free for the next 2 hours. So I take up my other app and my EV starts charging. Maybe something like that, maybe that's a little too cute and easy, maybe, but we're going to have to maybe in order to accommodate renewables start because we're always doing it. They're already experiments, like you had a story a week or two ago about government's utility controlling thermostats as an experiment, right. So when they have access, when they don't have enough power, they adjust your thermostat a little bit and they did that voluntarily in California. So I know by having electric vehicles capable of charging to the grid, discharging to the grid, that's another thing, right. I mean, that would maybe even offset a lot of the problems when you have those little peaks because these that are charged might be able to backfire and if they make it worth your while financially and I think they would, that could help flatten the curve. Yeah, downsides to having all those EVs on the grid, but also potential upsides. Yeah. And then there's school buses on city buses and things like that that will be sitting around and able to pick up because a lot of times you build a grid for the worst case scenario. Now if you got a million EVs out there that can cover that, worst case, 10 minutes or something like that, then it really changes the game. So, yeah, I'm just starting to think like that. The average mileage per day, by the way, is 20 miles in the UK, 37 miles in the United States, and EVs won't be charging more than once or twice every week or two. So looking forward to that. Plus your battery doesn't get messed with as much if you're not charged as much. Certainly a lot more charging for us in the winter when it's deadly cold. So Nikola is back in the news now. We used to talk about Nicola all the time when we started our podcast two and a half years ago. Anyway, I mean, it was an exciting potential good thing. It was the rivian of, let's say long distance semi trucks. But no. Yeah, so this has been going through the courts for quite a while, but Trevor Milton was the founder of Nikola Motors and one of the founders and was the CEO. And yeah, he's now guilty of fraud, three of four counts, guilty on three or four counts, basically guilty of pumping the stock. So Nicola was working on like a hydrogen semitruck and this is the most fun story is that they just rolled it down a hill and shot video of it and sort of tricked everyone into believing that they had a working prototype, which they did not. And then at other things, like they would show these trucks and vehicles at shows, and people with an eagle eye would spot that there would hey, wait, this is plugged into an electrical cord underneath there. So they were just fudging the truth. But when you're a publicly traded company, you're not really allowed to fudge the truth like that, and it ends up with fraud charges and guilty. But Nicola still exists. This is a real company. They still have hundreds or perhaps even thousands of employees working on, I think, less hydrogen and more battery electric now, but they are do you think they'll try to dig themselves out of this hole? You think they'll come up with an electric pickup truck anytime soon? I'm not picking up truck with a truck long distance. Yeah, I think there's a good chance. Like, even when all this controversy was happening, I sort of thought to myself, well, wait a minute, I mean, there's still a giant headquarters here and there's still hundreds of people working there. They have to be working on something. It's not like they're all just sitting around drinking coffee all day. I still hope for the best for Nikola, because the more players we have in this space, the better. Yeah, especially with long distance trucking. But they were hoping to have hydrogen powered trucks and build out their own hydrogen network of not just seem like a daunting prospect financially and logistically, and they would get an awful lot of people backing them in order to do that because it's tough. Just like Tesla, they could start with pre prescribed routes between bottlers and distribution centers and stuff like that. Grocery stores and distribution centers that are unknown length and maybe not even too long, but it's just even had places that were going to fix them on the road, too. We even had a series of shops that were ready to fix them. Yeah, and also at the time, like, it really wasn't clear that even though this is just a few years ago, that battery electric semis, people weren't sure how viable that would be. So as we reported last week, the first deliveries of the Tesla semi are going to be on December 1. I think there are other big trucks out there, so we'll know soon that battery electric should work for semi truck. Now, last week, I touched on sort of this myth that goes around that land use of renewables is a bad thing. How can we possibly power grid? What are we going to do, cover every square inch of solar and wind turbines? And then I pointed out the fact, and this is the fact that there is more land use by oil and gas right now than what it would take to. Have a renewable energy in the world. So there's no recent studies. But I came across, and this is actually when I was making the TikTok video for that segment, I came across a study which I found interesting, and now it's already seven years old. It was published in 2015. It was peer reviewed and published in the scientific journal Science. And it estimated that 30 0 km² have been lost to oil and gas well pads, storage tanks and associated roads just in the period from 2000 to 2015, just in that 15 year period, 30,000 km² just for oil and gas. So the amount that that is the equivalent of lost range lands is equivalent of approximately 5 million animal units per month. I don't want to think about what that is. I think I know. And the amount of biomass lost in croplands is equivalent of 122,000,000 bushes of wheat, something we have here where we live. Lots of wheat. So the thing is, the 3 million land lost is likely, unlike renewables, long lasting and potentially permanent. Permanent, yes. Because this is toxic. What's left is toxic. Yeah. We mentioned a hydrogen plant that's trying to build on an old oil and gas, I don't know, what do they call it? A gray site or there's a brown site. Brownfield. They call it brown field. It's like a gas station, a corner gas station type of house. Where there was a corner gas station, that land is contaminated forever. Yeah, but if you put in an EV charging supercharger there, you take it out, it's fine. You take a wind turbine out, fine. Solar farm. You can not only have agriculture taking place under the solar panels, you take them out and it becomes a farm again or whatever you want. Disneyland. So the gas power plants themselves occupy a rather small landscape footprint. It says you must take into account that those power plants also require significant infrastructure to operate well pad, storage tanks, pipelines access roads and refineries, just to name a few. The pipeline behind my house goes on for many hundreds of kilometers and I can't imagine the hectares that it in itself takes up. But you cannot do anything on it. I know, because I get a pamphlet in the mail every ten days telling me I can't so much fart on it because they don't want me to. I can't bring in a back loader because I don't have an alleyway here. I can't bring in a small tractor, I can't bring in anything at all they don't want because I talked to them on the phone, because I get, you know how you dial before you dig while I do that. And guess who calls? The pipeline companies actually call when I do that, put out that request to put in my above ground swimming pool and yeah, they tell me you can't do anything like that. Nothing at all. So they kill the gopher. So the ledge is pointless. They mow it. They do go over with a tractor and mow it once a month. But other than that so the Department of Energy estimates the amount of land used by wind turbines would require 3200 square kilometers, or 790,000 acres by 2050 when we met our Paris climate targets. And that's roughly a 10th of the land used by oil and gas, which is yes, electricity could be coming from wind for a 10th of the land used by oil and gas. And that's just in the States, right? So the National Renewable Energy Lab, 1 Ha or two five acres is what you need per gigawatt hour of solar generation, if you want to talk solar now. So for 3 million Ha lost oil and gas in that 15 year period, you could put up solar power that would generate 75% of America's total annual electricity generation output. You can put it anywhere. You don't put on farmland. You can put on rooftops. You can run schools, factories, and you should be and I don't know why they're not. Remember, this is just oil and gas. This doesn't even talk about other fossil fuels like coal or entire mountaintops are removed. So that's my story on that. This is a clean energy show with Brian Stockton and James Winningham. All right, so Volkswagen this week. So we were talking before about Hyundai and Kia maybe not making that many battery electric vehicles, even though they're quite great. But I thought this was worth mentioning. We've mentioned Volkswagen's output before, but, yeah, Volkswagen is on track to make 500,000 EVs by the end of this year. So 500,000 output in a year, that's behind Tesla, which is going to be around 1.4 million. So just between those two companies, that's around 2 million battery electric vehicles. So this is starting to ramp up. Volkswagen is taking this seriously, and they're taking it so seriously, they've hired you and McGregor as their next spokesperson. And of course, we talked about that show that was on Apple TV called The Long Way Down. A long way up. Yeah. Great show. Excellent show. If anyone's interested, you and McGregor likes to do these tours on motorcycles. So that's the newest iteration of that show. I think there's been three seasons, and it's on Apple TV Plus. And they started at the tip of South America and drove up to California, I think it was, on electric motorcycles and with prototype rivian electric pickup trucks just for the scenery, but also to see if it could be done electric. And it turned out to be an awesome show. So, yes, clearly, Ewan McGregor is an EV enthusiast. He's a big Volkswagen enthusiast. He owns several Volkswagens that he's restored, including one that is a 1954 Beetle that he had converted to electric. So he drives a 54 electric Beetle around Los Angeles. And so, yeah, I think that's kind of fun. Yes. I will point out that there are three iterations of this series, but they started like 20 years ago. So when they flash back, he's very young and Same has a buddy that he takes with him. And they both like motorcycles and racing and stuff and live it on the edge. And it was very much a struggle with electricity in South America to charge a prototype Harley Davidson livewire before they became the earlier previous seasons are just like shot on kind of old standard definition video, so they don't look that great. But the newest season that's on Apple TV, it's all in HD, looks fantastic because it is essentially a travel log show. And I became fascinated with South America. What a beautiful continent, if I may. And they were able to shoot it in glorious HD with lots of drones and different things and the technology that is compact and fits in the motorcycle operated and unoperated. And then the first few episodes were the struggle to charge, and then it became more like logistics and things. And the Inexplicably went through Mexico on a school bus that they want to find. Don't think it was too dangerous. There was a nasty tourist murder going. Yeah, Ewan McGregor is a great guy. He's one of the few Hollywood stars I would like to have a beer with. You know, like, he just seems like a great guy, and most people aren't. I'm not. I wouldn't want to have a beer with me. I'm a terrible human being. Somebody flaws. But he seems to have everything worked out. Volkswagen promised such lofty things, right, that they were going to do this, and we were hoping they would cause in dieselgate. They've sort of abandoned everything and said, okay, we're going all into EVs. But are they really? And a lot of people were skeptical, but it seems like are you fairly comfortable that they are? Oh, yeah. I think 500,000 is an amazing figure to hit this year. It's not an easy thing to ramp up all those batteries and new platforms because it's better to start with a new platform than to convert a gas car to electric. So, yeah, Volkswagen is well on their way. When I saw you doing the story, I watched the Star Wars commercial with him, and it sort of he drives off in a Volkswagen ID buzz the Volkswagen EV version of their minibus van, which is by all accounts, horrendously overpriced, but also very cool. And if I was on a money tree, I would certainly have one of the driveway for the cool factor going to be available in Europe very soon, from what I recall. Yeah. Well, the Financial Times has a story on nuclear revival in that Westinghouse Electric, which is a US. Nuclear power company. It's being bought by a private equityback consortium in an almost $8 billion deal for four years. That's four years after it emerged from bankruptcy. So it was nuclear is bad going bankruptcy, not making money because of the war in Ukraine is, in their mind and their view, spurring fresh interest in an industry that had fallen out of investor favor. So we've seen how important energy is and nuclear is available now, but also they're partnering with a company that right here in our own province that doesn't have a lot of companies. We have a big multinational corporation called Chemical which mine uranium in the far north of our province province, you know, hours and hours and hours and hours away that we're into the wilderness where there's a weird little city called Uranium City. You wanted to make a film there once because it was like this abandoned mining town in the middle of nowhere. No, it's a fascinating story, if you want to kind of Google it. Uranium City. It was a whole city that was built around mining uranium, and thousands of people were living there at one point, but it's now been more or less abandoned. So there's a whole abandoned city up there that I don't know, I'd like to just go hang around. It's very interesting to look at it from the air because you see the aerial photos and there are what don't seem like dilapidated houses that are completely caved in because some little water thing got in there and then one thing led to another with an unoccupied house and then they all sort of collapsed and looks like it has 30 years left on the shingles. Kind of a weird image, actually. Yeah. So Chemical is apparently big on nuclear and which is why they are lobbying a few provincial governments in Canada like ours to go with small modular nuclear reactors as the solution and as a way to waste our money and prolong fossil fuels. So the purchasing of Westinghouse, I guess they make 440 nuclear reactors in the world, about half of them. So I don't know, they say it's the best market fundamentals we've seen in a while. I'm skeptical. I would not advance, I would not invest in that. I would not invest in a billion dollars because by the time you put a brick in the ground, I mean, forget about it. It's going to be over. So well, I'm pleased to bring back the tweet of the week. I've had a hard time finding one this week, so I had to go with a thread, I'm afraid. Usually I find an inspiring tweet, something that I really like, but this one, there's been a lot of climate protesters in the news that has made people uncomfortable throwing supine paintings and things like that, and it's become a part of the discussion. So aside, rezook somebody I follow on Twitter, energy Insider, clean Energy Insider, in support of the malign of these climate protesters, he says, we have triggered a once in a hundred million years climate change event. Government falls here on the world, doesn't appear to give a hoot about it or our future. Why? Well, let's read between the lines of what climate science is saying. The probability of 1.5 degrees heating compared to preindustrial times by 2100 is today about 99%. The probability of two degrees is 90%. The probability of four degrees or higher is 10%. And that, of course, is absolutely catastrophic. So it's like playing Russian roulette with a ten chamber gun and one bullet in it. And it's the future of humanity and life on Earth is at least temporarily going to be disrupted if that happens. So three degrees is unadaptable for most people and will result in tens or hundreds of millions of climate refugees. Four degrees or more implies in exile to high latitudes north Canada, Siberia, north New Zealand for millennia. That is the most depressing thing I've read in a long time. Remember that the probability four degrees is actually 10%. So now, if you are faced with these not unlikely outcomes, would you not throw soup at a goddamn painting or stop traffic or strike or block an interest to BP or Shell or Exxon oil terminals? That is his thoughts we like to hear from you on the Clean Energy show. Coming up next is what is it, Brian? It's the lightning round roll. Zoom through a bunch of headlines and get through the show real quick. Contact us right now. Get out, Japan. Get out. Your typewriter is cleanenergychow@gmail.com. And we have the Clean energy pod. That's our handle. Clean Energy Pod. One word on Twitter and TikTok. We've got a YouTube channel with special features, and we have a voicemail option online where you can leave us an online voicemail speak, pipe.com slash clean energy show. lighting round, fast paced look of the weekend clean energy news. Brian, the show's gone by fast. They all go by fast. That's how we're at 135 of them already. I don't know what's going on. Maybe the cocaine from the oil industry has gotten into my coffee in the morning or something. But offshore construction starts on Japan's first floating wind farm. It is, in total pretty small. Now, the biggest wind turbines that we often mention are 14, though, that those are not floating. So I don't think the floating works for turbines quite that big. But it's nice to see Japan is finally getting going with because, remember, they've got a deeper offshore, so they need to do the floating in a lot of cases there. Yeah. Jinko Solar has achieved 26.1% efficiency in their solar panels. This is not Perk solar panels, which we're used to, but NType top con solar panels. So the new record was confirmed by China's National Institute of Metrology. Is it Metrology? Metrology? Sure. Let's say that it's the science of measurement, Brian. And a word that I didn't previously know, because I don't measure things. So Perk adds a passivated film to the back of ordinary solar panels to absorb more light than may have passed the initial cell surface. This is how they get this higher efficiency. Now, the panels on our houses might be, what, 89% efficient or something? Maybe 20%, something like this is significantly higher for the same panel. And they seem to say that the cost will be very close to they're basically adding this ultra thin oxide layer on top as another barrier to contain a absorbed light. They're just trapping more light. And when you talk about bifacial panels picking up stuff on the bottom as well well, normal panels only pick up 70% of light in the bottom direction, but these pick up 80%. So that's a 10% gain, which is nothing to sneeze at if you are making a bifatial solar family farm, which sometimes apparently, can be vertical just to smooth out the curve of the power generation during the day. Yeah, I'm always excited about these advancements in solar panels. Female workforce share in the renewable energy sector, 32%. Oil and gas, 22%. So we're spreading out the jobs a bit better as we transition to renewable. Something to think about. Few markets are electrifying, quite like China, Brian, where EVs have gone from less than 1% of light commercial vehicle sales to 10% in the last ten years. At last, two years. Okay, that's fine. Two years, basically nothing, 10%. And this is like commercial vehicles are not like you and I. They're driving all day and they're bigger. The vehicles use more energy, so they're bigger and they drive all day. So this is a big impact on oil. And I expect very much that this is going to happen soon, because we see it every day in the headlines. New small commercial vehicles and trucks coming online that are electric. Oh, it's time for a CES fast fact. Yes, it costs about $1,300 to install a public EV charger on a lamp post. $1,300. You know, we talk about how we're going to deal with apartment owners and stuff like that. Yeah, that's not much. This is the whole kit and the bootle and the fact that it charges you, too. The whole billing system is built into it. $1,300 us. No. We have tons of cars that park on the street all day long, so why not give them an option to charge? And keep in mind, you use your own cord for stuff like this. It's basically a socket. In Europe, they bring their own cord. Audi wants its EVs to clean the air while they charge or drive. If I had a segment, the weird story of the week, this would be it. Brian this is weird. And by the way, I once saw a thing where they had a train that was going to carbon capture as it drove, but I lost the story. But instead of talking about the show about six months ago so audio wants to do this with their cars. The vehicles will be equipped with the systems of filters particles out of the air. This is a test as an experiment. They'll do it passively when they're driving it and actively with a fan when they're charging. And they're just going to take particles out of the air through I don't know. It's not going to make a difference. It's going to add cost to the car. Why are they doing this, Brian? Why? It seems like the dumbest thing ever. Pennsylvania State University researchers develop ten minute charging method. Now, we hear about this stuff all the time, and we don't mention it on the show. Why? Because we don't know if it's real or not. However, this was published in the journal nature, which is the journal. It's a tough journal. This is no bigger journal than nature. As far as I love it. It's my favorite journal. Absolutely. They have that written on the cover. Brian Starship's favorite journal. And it's only when I mention it because adding a thin layer of nickel to the battery, which is also why I mention it, because it's not a huge, weird thing that may or may not work right. It's a minor thing that is actually helping it cool the battery. Something like Tesla might develop something like that while they're adding a thin layer of nickel in the spooling to help with the cooling. And that means that they can charge in 10 minutes. So that might be a thing. Okay, it might be a thing, yeah. I mean, it might potentially add too much cost because nickel is one of the more expensive materials for batteries, but we'll see. Oh, it's another CAS. Fast fact. All of the lithium mine last year would last just one month. In 2041 month, all the lithium mine last year would last one month. And in 2050, that magical year where we have to get to zero, it would last two weeks. So this is based on, I guess, current projections of how much lithium we're going to need to put into batteries and such in 20 years. It could be wrong. We could be on to batteries that don't require any lithium by then. I'm hoping it's possible, especially for grid and stuff like that. Electric miners are cutting CO2 emissions in half by switching to electric vehicles. So I know that mining was ripe for electric vehicles because you have to clean the air as you go down to the mines. That's an issue to have a diesel truck running or equipment. So if you electrify it and you throw out a solar farm, even better. No. There was a story this week about a hockey rank somewhere switching to electric powered zambonies to clean the ice. If you've ever been in a hockey rink, it's ridiculous. Like, they have these gas powered Zambonies driving around, especially in a smaller community size rink. The fumes are ridiculous. We shouldn't be breathing in those fumes. And it's the same thing with mining. Like, you don't want to be burning fossil fuels down in a mine. You want clean battery, electric. And like every decent Canadian, Brine was born on the blue line of a hi suki rank, weren't you, back in the day, many years ago? Many, many years ago, yeah. But you know what surprises me, though, is it's half the emissions from mining can come from electric fine. The vehicles. That's really good. I didn't know that it would be that great because that's easy. And by the way, we've seen even years ago, early in the podcast, giant super sized trucks that are electrified, that are going up and down, coal mines that just completely recharge on the way down. And they don't even have to charge during the day. They just regenerate. Going down with the regenerative. Branking by dad, three scored five stars in the Euro NCAP safety test. Now, the reason why I bring this up is because I've often pondered with you on the show, what are the Chinese cars going to be like when they come? Are they going to be safe? Now, that's a bit of maybe an unwanted, undeserved prejudice that is coming from bad Chinese manufacturing equality from past decades in the eighties and 90s. But then a lot of people said that about the Koreans. And actually the Korean cars weren't great at first, but they became quite they're among the top reliable cars now. They're great. So this is the first sort of indication that I've seen that the Chinese cars can do and will strive to have high safety ratings because we're all in North America here going to be craving good, safe cars. That affected my buying decision last time. Oh, another fast fact. US. Wind power currently generates enough electricity to serve the equivalent of 43 million American homes. That's right. Now, already just with wind power. Just with wind power. That's what it's capable of. At its best case scenario from carbon tracker, new findings from Rised Energy show that 2022 capital spending on wind and solar could hit almost half a trillion dollars, and that would eclipse the 446,000,000,000 for upstream oil and gas production. So this is kind of the first time that the capital spending has switched from bad to good. And they say it's not going back, that this trend will continue quite rapidly going forward. Absolutely. One last story for you, Brian, the World Meleeurological Organization, rather, is that occurrences of severe weather disrupting the operation of nuclear power plants increased fivefold in the last three decades between 19 92,019, with a notable acceleration since 2009, something that we've been mentioning on the show that I found quite surprising. And yes, climate change screwing things up already. Yeah, extreme weather is not great for nuclear power plants. And that is our time for this week. I mean, we could go on forever, but my throat will start to bleed very shortly. Brian will pass out. I've got a cold. He's got to be barely alive, man. He's probably got some sort of new version of COVID that can't be detected. That's what I think. It's not a cold. We'll hope you're here for next week's show, so we'd love to hear from you. Remember, clean energy show@gmail.com, twitter, TikTok, yada yada, yada. Leave us a voicemail. And if you're new to the show, remember subscribe on your podcast app, because we have new shows every week and you wouldn't want to miss that. So we'll see you next time. See you next week.  

In this episode, our host Joe Batir answers questions from the internet! Pulled from friends, family, and social media, Joe answers those questions that people wanted to ask, but never knew who to ask. National Renewable Energy Lab wind maps: https://www.nrel.gov/gis/wind.html  Nature article “Hydrogen technology is unlikely to play a major role in sustainable road transport” (behind a pay wall): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41928-021-00706-6 Episode 30 with Paul Rodden of the Hydrogen Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/talking-hydrogen-rainbows-trash-transportation-and/id1580441929?i=1000551047080 Episode 19 with Assaad Mohanna of NOV: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/what-are-you-good-at-what-do-you-want-to-do-and-will/id1580441929?i=1000544114498 Episode 7 with Cory Macon of Endress+Hauser: https://podcasts.apple.com/co/podcast/is-the-energy-transition-binary-cory-marcon-of/id1580441929?i=1000535178182  Geothermal Rising Conference 2022: https://geothermal.org/events/2022-geothermal-rising-conference-grc This episode is made possible by AWS Energy. Brought to you on the Oil and Gas Global Network, the largest and most listened-to podcast network for the oil and energy industry. More from OGGN ... Podcasts LinkedIn Group LinkedIn Company Page Get notified about industry events  

In the global race to phase out fossil fuels, offshore wind offers huge potential. Join us as Walt Musial from the National Renewable Energy Lab explains.

Bees, monarchs, and other critical pollinators are disappearing, and scientists agree that loss of habitat is a primary concern. However, research has found that the renewable energy sector provides a unique opportunity for creating new pollinator habitat.Join Monarch Joint Venture, Connexus Energy, MNL, and Fresh Energy for a webinar recorded on May 18, 2022, as we dig into the new study, “Monitoring Pollinators on Minnesota Solar Installation,” which used field data collection practices to document an abundance of bees, butterflies, moths, flies, and wasps utilizing pollinator-friendly solar habitat in Minnesota. We also discussed seed mixes and biodiversity benefits, how utilities and co-ops can lead, and more.PanelistsLaura Lukens | she/her | Monarch Joint VentureLaura Lukens is the National Monitoring Coordinator for the Monarch Joint Venture, a nonprofit organization dedicated to conserving monarch butterflies and their migration. Laura coordinates research projects throughout the US and cultivates a network of researchers and science initiatives to advance monarch conservation priorities.Rob Davis | he/him | Connexus EnergyRob Davis is communications lead at Connexus Energy and chair of the advisory committee to the National Renewable Energy Lab's InSPIRE study into low-impact solar. Davis' work on pollinator-friendly solar has been featured in trainings by the U.S. Department of the Interior's National Conservation Training Center, the U.S. Department of Energy, and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency; in feature stories in Fast Company and Scientific American, and a talk titled “This unlikely 1960s space tech can help save the bees,” on TED.com. Previously, Davis helped launch technology start-ups and created the international crowdsourced campaign that launched the Firefox web browser. He is a graduate of Macalester College.Jake Janksi | he/him | MNLJake Janski is the Director of Field Service Operations and a Senior Ecologist at MNL (Minnesota Native Landscapes). Jake applies his experiences from the past 20+ years in the industry towards the successful restoration and management of our region's plant communities, solar sites, and natural resources. Beyond overseeing MNL's spectrum of ecological services, broadest in the Midwest, Jake has also written and implemented numerous studies, restoration strategies, and vegetation management plans throughout his career. Whenever possible, he enjoys sharing these experiences and perspectives with audiences of his peers, industry groups, and others who share MNL's mission of Healing the Earth.Resources:- YouTube link to the webinar- Report: Monitoring Pollinators on Minnesota Solar Installations- Blog about Monarch Joint Venture's study- Sample Ordinance and Procurement Language- Pollinator-Friendly Solar Scorecards

Quantum Quote: “If it has been done, it must be possible.” – Kenneth Boulding   April 22, 2021 is the 51st Anniversary of Earth Day - the most widely-observed non-religious holiday in the world.    Over 1 BILLION people participate in Earth Day events in virtually every nation on Earth. Earth Day events educate and mobilize on local, state, national, and global environmental issues.    The 2020s HAS to be the turning point for humanity's transition to clean energy and a sustainable future. 90% of our carbon emissions come from burning fossil fuels (oil, coal, natural gas) for our electricity, heating, cooling and transportation.     The Good News is that the Forces of Nature provide 1,000 times the energy we need. The Better News is that we have the technology to channel that clean energy and meet all our needs. And the BEST news is that we can save money doing it.   This week AWESome EarthKind will re-run our interview with Denis Hayes, the first Earth Day coordinator - who then led the way to make Earth Day an international event.   Denis also did the ground-breaking work that created the first 6 story Net Energy Positive building - despite developers saying it was an impossible dream.    Dive into the world of Earth Day's Denis Hayes and realize that we can overcome the seemingly impossible challenges that confront humanity today.   Denis Hayes is a Stanford University graduate and has been a silicon-valley lawyer, a Stanford Professor of Engineering, and the director of the National Renewable Energy Lab. He currently works as the President of the Bullitt Foundation, where he developed the first 52,000 sq ft six-story building to be Net Energy Positive. The building creates more energy than it uses, and energy is not an expense - but a profit center! And the building was built in Seattle – the city with the least amount of sunlight in the United States.    Denis was named as The Newsmaker of the Day by the New York Times, The Hero of the Planet by Time Magazine, and was also listed as One of the 100 Most Influential Americans in the 20th century by Look Magazine.   Denis became the national coordinator of the first Earth Day in 1970 after he dropped out of Harvard. That Earth Day mobilized millions of Americans and generated the momentum that led to the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, and the creation of The Environmental Protection Agency.    Listen to this episode as Denis shares insights into Earth Day, the “Sea of Energy” that surrounds us, the building that World Architecture Magazine called “The Greenest Office Building in the World”, the reality that we can overcome what seems impossible, and his hope for the future. Sign up for a free webclass to discover how easy it is to get ultra-efficient geothermal heating and cooling installed in your home – without the pain of emptying your savings account.   In “The Power Of Earth With Comfort” From Climate Master webclass, you'll discover the answers every homeowner needs to know, including:   How geothermal heating and cooling can draw energy from the ground beneath our feet (for pennies) Why homeowners everywhere are making the switch The secrets to securing utility incentives and tax credits to pay for a large portion of your new geothermal system   and much more…   If you tired of rising energy costs and want to save up to 70% on your energy bills, Go to www.AWESomeEarthKind.com and register now for this FREE special event that will show you exactly how to get geothermal heating and cooling installed in your home   We'd like to hear from you! Please help us understand how AWESomeEarthKind can help you achieve your clean energy goals – and you'll automatically be entered into a Sweepstakes for a Free LED Light Fixture:   SEND YOUR FEEDBACK TODAY   SuperNova #1. “If it has been done, it must be possible.” While everyone said it was impossible, Denis developed the first six-story 52,000 sq ft building to be Net Energy Positive – it creates more energy than it uses.   SuperNova #2. Most of the energy we need to do are simple – become super-efficient and let the forces of nature provide our power.    SuperNova #3. We live in a SEA OF ENERGY. If it wasn't for the sun, it would be hundreds of degrees below zero. The furnace just tops it up.   SuperNova #4. Utility scale “Solar On Demand” (Solar with batteries) is now the lowest cost power in the US.   Worst Clean Energy Moment: During the Arab Oil Embargo, Denis promoted that we do for solar energy what NASA and the Defense Department did for computer chips – buy in bulk and drive down prices. There was good and bad news.   Aha! Moment: “Energy is the capacity to do work.” Drying clothes outside takes as much energy as in the dryer, but we don't pay for the sun and air to dry our clothes.   Best Advice He's Ever Received: When you hit the wall with a complex problem – take a break. Go into nature, do something else. When you come back, you'll have the answer.   Personal Habit that Contributes to Success: Pessimism provides no survival advantage – it only leads to giving up. There is always hope – even in the face of incredible challenges (like Churchill in England during WWII).   Internet Resources: https://grist.org, The New Yorker cartoon page, and the Borowitz Report Satire.    WTF or F: Siberia in winter without a coat.   Most Energized About Today: The Green New Deal (now called “ called the American Jobs Plan”). The $3 Trillion Cares Act  was passed with only a few weeks' debate to avoid economic catastrophe. We CAN come together and decide that we are going to make the transition to a super efficient, renewable energy powered civilization.   Parting Advice: Even when everything is stacked against you – never give up.

Technical Assistance for Remote Communities. The host for this show is Mitch Ewan. The guest is Mark B. Glick. Mark Glick presents the information regarding cohort 2 of the U.S. Department of Energy's Energy Transitions Initiative Partnership Program which provides technical assistance to remote and island communities to carry out energy transition projects. Technical assistance is provided through the National Renewable Energy Lab, Sandia National Laboratories, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, and Sandia National Laboratories and projects are initiated by communities. The discussion for this show focuses on the Hawaii Natural Energy Institute's role as a regional partner and information about how projects can be considered for technical assistance through the cohort 2 application process. The ThinkTech YouTube Playlist for this show is https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQpkwcNJny6nXB3m62UWYrdK3lYBRDrQ9 Please visit our ThinkTech website at https://thinktechhawaii.com and see our Think Tech Advisories at https://thinktechadvisories.blogspot.com.

Ever wanted to talk to THE guy who's in the know about climate change, clean and renewable energy and how to save the planet? We did. We got to sit down with Tim Lieuwen, the Executive Director of the Strategic Energy Institute. And international authority on clean energy. Tim has authored and edited 4 books, holds five patents, is the founder of TurbineLogic and is a multi-award-winning scientist who sits on the advisory boards of the Oak Ridge National Lab, Pacific Northwest national Lab and the National Renewable Energy Lab. We were lucky enough to grab some of Tim's time and get into a very high-level discussion about how to change the future of the environment, as well as some of the realities behind the real impacts of the things we are doing, not just in hurting the environment, but the things we are doing to protect and save it.

After a 10 year term at the National Renewable Energy Lab, Dr. Julieta Giraldez is working at the edge of technology and regulatory issues, at the edge of the utility, the energy policy, and the energy consumer. She is a facilitator of conversations that move clean energy projects forward. We talk about a lot of edges in this episode: between research and implementation, between the public and private sectors, between complexity and opportunity, and between the data and decision making.Quotables"Where the technical meets the regulatory is a very exciting space, because it means we are advancing societal good."“The way we used to plan before was an extremely simple set of assumptions. Now, just to even answer a question, you need to consider twelve other things times ten other scenarios to actually understand the impact of what you're trying to look at. It's a complex space now and that excites me.”-          All above quotes by Dr. Julieta Giraldez“Complexity can feel scary or frustrating, but there's also a ton of opportunity in complexity.”“The way that we model things is still just a model. It can tell us important things about reality, but it's never going to perfectly reflect reality.”-          Amy SimpkinsThis week's guestA leader in the renewable energy sector, Julieta Giraldez is a Principal of Customer Solutions at Kevala, where she focuses on solving the challenges facing energy market participants interacting with the evolving electricity grid. Prior to joining Kevala, Dr. Giraldez worked for the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) where she led Distributed Energy Resources (DER) grid integration related projects. Most recently, she focused on understanding how customer-sited resources such as solar, electric vehicles, and battery storage, can best be leveraged and safely integrated into distribution systems. She brings a holistic view of grid integration related issues, acknowledging the importance of including multiple perspectives in the evaluation of new emerging technologies, from developers and customers to technology providers, regulators and utilities.  Dr. Giraldez holds a Ph.D. in Systems Engineering from Colorado State University, an M.S. in Electrical Engineering from the Colorado School of Mines and a B.S in Technical Mining and Energy Resources from the Polytechnic University of Madrid, Spain.Resources:Connect with Julieta on LinkedIn.Check out Kevala's website.If you enjoyed the conversation, please share. Leave us a positive review and subscribe to Power Flow on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can follow Power Flow Podcast on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Tik Tok. Thank you for listening. See you at the whiteboard!

Today we had the pleasure of hosting Bill Farris, Associate Laboratory Director for Innovation, Partnering, and Outreach at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL). In his role, Bill focuses on the NREL's partnership activity and accelerating commercialization and the transfer of laboratory technologies to the marketplace. He's worked on some pretty fascinating projects and we had a great time learning more about the NREL and their programs. The NREL is headquartered in Golden, Colorado. Bill took us through a presentation covering background on the lab, why they exist and their role between research and partnering with industry, government, and non-profits. Their work reduces the risk of bringing innovations to market by bridging the gap between innovative ideas and production. We learned a lot and encourage you to visit the NREL the next time you find yourself in the Denver area! We kicked of the session with our usual COBT crew: Mike Bradley touched on OPEC+, earnings chatter, and gave a preview of oil major earnings this week. Matt Portillo continued the earnings discussion with a preview of upstream earnings and provided a gas market update. Colton Bean​​​​ also joined today's session and gave an update on a few recent TPH Research coverage initiations in renewable power. Last but certainly not least, Colin Fenton shared four examples of the quest for the radical middle from news and recent events this week.  We could have continued the discussion with Bill for much longer and want to thank him for joining. We hope you enjoy!  ------------------------------------------------------Copyright 2021, Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. The information contained in this update is based on sources considered to be reliable but is not represented to be complete and its accuracy is not guaranteed. This update is designed to provide market commentary only. This update does not constitute an offer to sell or a solicitation of an offer to buy any securities. Nothing contained in this update is intended to be a recommendation of a specific security or company nor is any of the information contained herein intended to constitute an analysis of any company or security reasonably sufficient to form the basis for any investment decision. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co., and its officers, directors, shareholders, employees and affiliates and members of their families may have positions in any securities mentioned and may buy or sell such securities before, after or concurrently with the publication of this update. In some instances, such investments may be inconsistent with the views expressed herein. Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. may, from time to time, perform or solicit investment banking or other services for or from a company, person or entities mentioned in this update. Additional important disclosures, including disclosures regarding companies covered by TPH’s research department, may be found at www.tphco.com/Disclosure. Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. (TPH) is the global brand name for Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. Securities, LLC, Tudor, Pickering, Holt & Co. Securities – Canada, ULC, Perella Weinberg Partners LP, and their affiliates worldwide. Institutional Communication Only. Under FINRA Rule 2210, this communication is deemed institutional sales material and it is not meant for distribution to retail investors. Recipients should not forward this communication to a retail investor.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are not going mainstream anytime soon. But they make a lot of sense in other parts of the transportation sector, such as with semi-trucks, trains and ships. Wall Street is also waking up to the possibilities and investors are sniffing out investment opportunities. Bryan Pivovar, a Senior Research Fellow at the National Renewable Energy Lab, talks about the progress being made in hydrogen production and fuel cell development.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars are not going mainstream anytime soon. But they make a lot of sense in other parts of the transportation sector, such as with semi-trucks, trains and ships. Wall Street is also waking up to the possibilities and investors are sniffing out investment opportunities. Bryan Pivovar, a Senior Research Fellow at the National Renewable Energy Lab, talks about the progress being made in hydrogen production and fuel cell development.

In this episode we talk with Ed Begley Jr, his wife, and others about how to better use our natural resources to generate our electricity. This isn't just how to save energy, but how to change the ways we generate our power. The stats are NOT balanced: roughly 60% Fossil Fuels, 20% nuclear, and 20% Renewable Resources. We talked with Brelon May who works at the National Renewable Energy Lab, Patrick Byington a conservation and energy expert, as well as Stuart Cooley with U.S. Green Building Council - Los Angeles (www.usgbc-la.org). We hope that you learn more and understand that there is still time to make the shift to more renewable sources, but the clock is ticking.

This week we have a really interesting angle on the way that cleantech companies are lifted from the dust. Today's intrapreneur and entrepreneur is Trish Cozart, Program Manager for the Innovation and Entrepreneurship Center at the National Renewable Energy Lab in Colorado. Now, Trish has been recommended by several people, but a special shoutout to Antenna Group for helping make this interview happen for you. Trish and I really dig into how the National Renewable Energy Lab, through its Innovation Entrepreneurship Center, is helping to spur entrepreneurship, hence supporting what most cleantech activists and advocates are trying to bring in to the world, both from funding as well as enabling a much broader network, far beyond just the dollars that go into the companies that come through the cohort's in her organization within NREL. Remember you can always find the resources and learn more about today’s guest, recommendations, book links and more than 300 other founder stories and startup advice at www.mysuncast.com. Gain access to all the show notes & resources from this episode here You can connect with me, Nico Johnson, on Twitter, LinkedIn or email Thanks a ton to our podcast sponsors for continuing to help make this content FREE to You! Please check them out and let me know what you think!

This week we have a really interesting angle on the way that cleantech companies are lifted from the dust. Today's intrapreneur and entrepreneur is Trish Cozart, Program Manager for the Innovation and Entrepreneurship Center at the National Renewable Energy Lab in Colorado. Now, Trish has been recommended by several people, but a special shoutout to Antenna Group for helping make this interview happen for you. Trish and I really dig into how the National Renewable Energy Lab, through its Innovation Entrepreneurship Center, is helping to spur entrepreneurship, hence supporting what most cleantech activists and advocates are trying to bring in to the world, both from funding as well as enabling a much broader network, far beyond just the dollars that go into the companies that come through the cohort's in her organization within NREL. Remember you can always find the resources and learn more about today’s guest, recommendations, book links and more than 300 other founder stories and startup advice at www.mysuncast.com. Gain access to all the show notes & resources from this episode here You can connect with me, Nico Johnson, on Twitter, LinkedIn or email Thanks a ton to our podcast sponsors for continuing to help make this content FREE to You! Please check them out and let me know what you think!

Welcome everyone, I'm Jim Frazier of ARCA Advisory Group, and this is the Smart City Podcast. Today, we have a panel discussion with some with, with some intriguing end users of Smart City Technology.0:15We have Kevin Comstock, Smart Cities, Director of the City of Chattanooga, as well as doctor Melissa Wiley, who's a data analyst for the city of Gainesville, Florida. Welcome to both of you, love, Thank you, Jim.0:31OK, well, thanks for joining us today.0:34Um, there's been a lot lot published and discussed about Smart Cities. Much of its vaporware Can can each of you share some? You know, interesting projects that actually are happening on the ground and in both Chattanooga and Gainesville.0:53Sure, Be happy to. one of the, we've got three major projects are three major activities that we've got going on here in Chattanooga. The first one is a collaborative of different governmental agencies, academia, hospitals, health care people, the electric power board here. The individuals that installed our fiber network about 10 years ago, that created the gig city.1:24So, that group is kinda working together to identify opportunities in smart cities more from an economic development perspective and to help bring technology and research to our universities here. So, which leads into the first or the next project, which is our Testbed. The city and the University of Tennessee Chattanooga have built a living laboratory on one of our corridors here in town.1:51It's about a mile and a half long, has 11 intersections on it, where we have deployed numerous sensors for vehicle, detection, air quality detection, mckusick detection, to get a very good sense of how that corridor or operates from an urban perspective. Some of the things that we're doing there are actually starting to test out some of the ... technologies for live spat, challenge the signal facing and timing transmission between vehicles and infrastructure and from the infrastructure back to the vehicles. So that's been going on here for about 18 months, now.2:29The next project we've got is a collaborative project with the Oak Ridge National Labs, and the National Renewable Energy Lab on a digital twin here in the community, which is computer simulation of our entire city, basically. And the primary points that they're looking at with that is the traffic system, how we can reduce emissions, are improved fuel economy, reduced energy, use this as a department, event, US Department of Energy project. So, but it's, it's in its second year now, they're getting ready to roll out the next two years of the project. And they're expanding that to be much more of a regional perspective than the one specific corridor that they've identified. And I've been working on for the past two years. Well, Kevin, let me jump in that, That, that's fascinating.3:23It's a Department of Energy project that is building a Digital Twin with a focus on your transportation network, correct?3:33And it didn't come from the U S D O T? correct.3:39I don't get into politics. That's that's. That's it, That Melissa, there's another, in gainesville's a big university town.3:50Yeah. And there's a there's a lot happening there. I know, in the Smart City domain. You maybe want to touch on some of the things you're personally involved with, in terms of Data analytics.Read entire transcript at https://www.gotostage.com/channel/8c81af73828943598cf4b25ae492b3e9/recording/20169eda5bea434b9afb456df05bfc47/watch?source=CHANNEL

Senator Lisa Murkowski, chairman of the U.S. Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, records the fifth episode of her new podcast. This episode features Jack Hebert and Bruno Grunau from the Cold Climate Housing Research Center; and Dr. Martin Keller from the National Renewable Energy Lab. Subsequent episodes will include additional updates from the ENR Committee, guest interviews, and discussion of various issues related to her home state.

Lilly and Xerxes talk with Edgewater City Councilperson, John Beltrone about what motivates him to serve his community and how he became involved in politics. One of his first accomplishments as a councilperson was putting together an ordinance to establish a Sustainability Committee that eventually led to Edgewater’s Sustainability Board. Given that this discussion between neighbors happened virtually during the pandemic, addressing what local governments are doing and Edgewater’s unique solution to take care of local businesses and residents was pertinent. In addition to serving our City, John is a CPA and also works at the National Renewable Energy Lab, where he originally met and eventually rescued Xerxes in a snowstorm. Our stories have intertwined ever since as we have had the privilege of being rebel rousers with John and more recently serving the City on matters of local sustainability. 

The National Renewable Energy Lab, NREL for short, has been in existence since 1977. It was founded by the Carter administration as a reaction to the oil shocks of the mid-70s. It was the first acknowledgment by the federal government that our economic and national security interests demanded that we diversify our energy resources from exclusively fossil fuels to renewables. The clean energy economy was born! In the 40+ years since the founding of the laboratory, the clean energy industry has experienced fits and starts but has ultimately developed into what today is a mature, well-funded industry that enjoys support from both the public and private sectors. Richard Adams, our guest on today’s episode, is the Director of the Innovations and Entrepreneurship Center at NREL and oversees two fascinating programs: The Innovation Incubator - a technology partnership with Wells Fargo and GCxN, a technology accelerator partnership with Shell. Richards’ position situates him at the crossroads of clean technology innovation and the public/public partnerships that fund and dictate the needs of much of that innovation. Richard’s insights into the evolution of the clean technology industry, the respective interests and responsibilities of the diverse entities that comprise the cleantech ecosystem, and the state of early-stage cleantech investing are driven by his day-to-day interactions with Shell, Wells Fargo, the other hundreds of NREL stakeholders, as well as with the early-stage cleantech innovators that he supports.

In today’s episode, we cover:• Shayle’s journey from energy transition in the market intelligence space to climate change venture capital at Energy Impact Partners (EIP)• EIP, a VC with ~$1B in AUM whose LPs are a coalition of utilities• The sectors EIP invests in• Abe’s journey from Rockport Capital Partners, a cleantech private equity firm based, to cofounding Congruent Ventures in 2016• A history of the first cleantech wave• Lessons learned• How the current interest in climate tech compares/contrasts with the first cleantech wave • What types of innovation is needed in climate tech• What types of capital are the best for for which types of innovationLinks to topics discussed in this episode:• Energy Impact Partners: https://www.energyimpactpartners.com/• Congruent Ventures: https://www.congruentvc.com/• Rockport Capital Partners: http://www.rockportcap.com/• Solyndra: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra• Thin-film solar cell: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin-film_solar_cell• MiaSolé: http://miasole.com/• Alpha: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/alpha.asp• National Renewable Energy Lab: https://www.nrel.gov/• Lawrence Berkeley Lab: https://www.lbl.gov/

On this episode of You Have a Cool Job, we talk to Kate Anderson, who leads the Engineering and Modeling Group at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden, Colorado. Kate explains the world of renewable energy, sharing trends in the field and major projects she works on. She talks about the combination of technical science work,  leadership of a group of scientists, and energy consulting that her job requires. As Kate switched her career from aerospace to renewable energy, she shares her motivation and how working in such a pressing field is both motivating to her as well as her coworkers, creating a team that is passionate about the work that they're doing.

We need to ditch fossil fuels. Can America go 100% renewable by 2050? Does the technology already exist? We speak to Prof. Mark Delucchi, Prof. Christopher Clack, and Prof. David Connolly. UPDATE: Since this episode was published, Tesla have unveiled a prototype of a electric semi truck. Check out the full transcript here: http://bit.ly/38ku2a4 Our Sponsors: Tushy | Wordpress.com | TuneIn Credits: This episode has been produced by Wendy Zukerman, Heather Rogers and Shruti Ravindran. Production help from Rose Rimler. Our senior producer is Kaitlyn Sawrey. We’re edited this week by Blythe Terrell and Annie-Rose Strasser, with extra help from Rachel Ward. Fact checking by Michelle Harris. Sound design by Martin Peralta. Music written by Bobby Lord. For this episode we also spoke to Professor Vijay Modi, Professor Mark Jacobson, Dr Gorm Bruun Andresen, Professor Willett Kempton, Dr Dylan McConnell, and Dr Jane CS Long. And an extra thanks to the Zukerman family. Selected reading: Mark Jacobson and Mark Delucchi paper showing that the US could be run on 100 percent renewable energy.Christopher Clack and his team’s paper criticising Mark’s workSurvey published this year of more than 100 energy experts on the future of renewables.National Renewable Energy Lab’s look at Renewable Electricity Detailed report on California’s energy future

The Trump administration has sent mixed signals on climate change and alternative energy and the future of the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in Golden is cloudy. Then, what doctors and hospitals must learn about Colorado's new aid-in-dying law. And, a Denver mom writes a children's book to help kids cope with death. Also, an update on transportation negotiations from the state capitol. Plus, Colorado musicians vye for an appearance at NPR's Tiny Desk Concert.

At the center of our solar system, approximately 92.96 million miles away, is a nuclear power plant capable of powering the entire globe. We know it by its most common name: our sun. The sun's diffuse energy can be used to heat water in thermal solar panels, or can be converted to electricity with photovoltaic (PV) panels. Since our modern society is moving towards using electricity for heating and cooling, transportation, communications, appliances and even entertainment, PV panels are the most expedient way to convert this solar energy to usable energy. PV-generated electricity used to be expensive. But no longer. A typical solar panel generates about 400 kwh of electricity per year which, at $0.25/kwh (the average electric rate in California), amounts to $100 of electricity. With 20 solar panels on your roof you can reduce your annual electric bill by $2,000. Since each panel costs around $500 to install (including equipment and labor), the payback is only 5 years! So why can't we run our nation's electricity with solar power? We can. Such an elegant and environmentally sensitive solution. But there are many people who are either in denial of solar's ability to affordably power our economy, or have ulterior motives -- usually these are people who have financial interests tied to the fossil fuel or utility industry. According to a recent report by the National Renewable Energy Lab, rooftop solar has the potential to power almost 40% of the country's total electricity needs – using only the roofs of residential/commercial buildings. When you consider community solar and ground mount installations we can easily generate 100% of total U.S. electricity needs. Still not convinced? Listen Up to the Energy Show on Renewable Energy World for the highlights of NREL's report entitled “Rooftop Solar Photovoltaic Technical Potential in the United States.”

The cost of wind power has been falling steadily again since the 2008 price spike, and newer projects have been coming in at 2 cents per kilowatt-hour, making them very competitive with natural gas fired power and ranking among the very lowest-cost ways to generate electricity. But can wind prices keep falling, or have they bottomed out? A recent report from the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, the National Renewable Energy Lab, and other organizations offers some clues. Based on a survey of 163 of the world's foremost wind energy experts, it examines in detail what factors have led to wind's cost reductions in the past, and attempts to forecast what will drive further cost reductions in the future. It also looks at some of the reasons why previous forecasts have underestimated the growth and cost reductions of wind, and suggests that many agency forecasts may be underestimating them still. In this episode, one of the report's principal authors explains the findings and offers some cautionary words about how much confidence we can have in our forecasts.

The cost of wind and solar power have fallen dramatically in recent years. Still, renewables only account for a fraction of the energy produced in the United States. One person confronting this issue sits in an office in Golden, Colorado. His name is Martin Keller and he is the new boss at the National Renewable Energy Lab. Keller, who hails from Germany, tells Inside Energy’s Dan Boyce the lab needs to spur more innovation to increase the amount of renewable energy available.

This week's How On Earth offers two features: Co-host Susan Moran interviews Alexis Madrigal, a senior editor for The Atlantic magazine and author of the new book, Powering the Dream: The History and Promise of Green Technology. Madrigal spins tales of the bicycle boom in the 1800s and how it paved the way for cars, ironically; of a time when gasoline emerged as a waste product of kerosene for lighting; and when crude oil was what you might call the environmentally sound alternative to oil from whales, which were nearly hunted to extinction.  Madrigal also pays tribute to Colorado's National Renewable Energy Lab and its deep history of spawning renewable energy and surviving budget cuts. And he honors green-tech (and fossil fuel) inventors and beacons of yesteryear, as he looks forward to what a greener future could be. In the second feature, Shelley Schlender interviews Warren Washington, a ground-breaking climate scientist at the National Center of Atmospheric Research in Boulder. He's a world leader in using computers to model climate.  Last year he was awarded the National Medal of Science by President Obama. Dr. Washington's autobiography is  Odyssey in Climate Modeling, Global Warming, and Advising Five Presidents. Hosts: Susan Moran, Ted Burnham Producer: Susan Moran Engineer: Shelley Schlender

Dan Arvizu, the Director of the National Renewable Energy Lab, discusses, the importance of technology innovation, policies that enable and promote development and implementation of energy efficiency. (April 1, 2009)

This week we focus on the energy system of the home.Even though humans have relied on the power of the sun as a source of heat and light for thousands of years, it is only recently that solar energy has become a regular topic of conversation when discussing our dependence on fossil fuel burning power. The idea of placing solar panels on the roof once seemed out of reach for most homeowners but advancements in this technology are making it more efficient, more affordable and an increasingly attractive option for offsetting energy costs and selling homegrown power back to the grid. From rooftop panels, to sunlight absorbing house paint to flexible panels that can be worn on clothing and backpacks, tremendous resources are being spent to develop efficient means of harnessing the sun’s rays. Leaving us to wonder: Can solar power be the answer to our energy needs?Here to provide more insight about the future of solar energy is Cecile Warner.Cecile Warner is a Project Manager at the U.S. Department of Energy's National Renewable Energy Lab (NREL). She is recognized for her outstanding and sustained work towards the advancement of solar photovoltaic technology. She received the Women in Solar Energy Award from the American Solar Energy Society for her contributions, particularly her public outreach efforts.Cecile has led the Laboratory in developing and managing the highly acclaimed U.S. Solar Decathlon. This a competition where teams of college and university students compete to design the most attractive, effective, and efficient solar powered house. She was also project director of Sunrayce 93, a university competition of solar cars. She holds a Bachelor’s and a Master’s degree in mechanical engineering.For more information about the National Renewable Energy Lab, the U.S. Solar Decathlon and the subject of solar photovoltaic technology, check out the following links:www.nrel.govwww.solardecathlon.orgThe two songs used in today's program are both about the sun. These songs were created by independent artists willing to share their music online for free. The artists can be found on garageband.com a website promoting new and emerging independent musicians. Here are links to the artists:Bye, Bye Sunshine by Sleepy Greenwww.garageband.com/song?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSkYla3a20Sun by Mike Massewww.garageband.com/song?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSnY1a3ZG0Join us next week for another episode of World House Radio: Stories of Home.