Podcasts about Lemi

In this episode of LEMIWorks, host Heidi Christianson sits down with Lynne Nielsen, a seasoned LEMI trainer, to discuss the intricacies of QUEST Principles and QUEST Traits. They delve into the foundational elements of these leadership education projects, examining their structure, underlying philosophies, and educational outcomes. The conversation covers the acronym QUEST, drawn from a Steven Covey quote emphasizing timeless principles, and addresses how these courses help students recognize and adhere to universal principles amidst modern challenges. They also explore the 5,000-year leap and the seven habits of highly effective people, highlighting how these elements blend into the curriculum to foster a deeper understanding of freedom, jurisprudence, and virtuous leadership, preparing students for real-world challenges. 00:00 Introduction to Lemi Works Podcast 00:22 Exploring Quest Principles and Traits 00:56 Understanding the Quest Acronym 02:07 The Importance of Universal Principles 04:57 Quest in Practice: Scholar Experiences 10:07 Challenges and Changes in Quest Writing 19:55 Benefits of the New Quest Format 21:57 Mentoring and Peer Dependence 24:18 The Impact of Service Projects 25:21 Encouraging Scholar Voice and Leadership 32:31 Quest Projects Overview: Traits and Principles 35:30 Exploring Worldviews in Education 37:07 The Power of Choice in Learning 38:54 Writing Personal Manifestos 41:16 Family Conversations on Beliefs 45:54 The Importance of Principles 53:28 The Court Simulation Experience 01:02:19 The Value of Quest in Education 01:08:04 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

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In our latest episode of LEMIWorks!, we sit down with the inspiring Kami Harris—new LEMI trainer, veteran homeschooler, and passionate advocate for transformational education.

Thanks for joining us for a weekly message from DuBois Light & Life Church. Today you will hear encouraging words, worship, and a message. Our goal is that you would find Hope, Healing, and Purpose in Jesus Christ. Live from DuBois Light and Life Church.128 S 8th Street,DuBois PA 15801Connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and our Website at DuBoisfmc.org, or download our app!

Çalışma ve Sosyal Güvenlik Bakanı Işıkhan, SGK'ya borcu bulunan belediyelere haciz uygulanacağını açıkladı. İstanbul Cumhuriyet Başsavcılığı, konser harcamalarını gerekçe göstererek CHP'li belediyelere yönelik soruşturma başlattı. Bu bölüm Anisah Coffee hakkında reklam içermektedir. Kasım ayında havalar üşütse de, Anisah Coffee'nin fırsatları içimizi ısıtıyor. Anisah Coffee bu ay, kahve tutkunlarına %11 ila %21 arasında indirim şansı sunuyor. Kapsülden filtre kahveye, kahve setleri ve ekipmanlarına kadar aradığınız her şey burada sizi bekliyor.

Attention, "émission très particulière" car consacrée presque exclusivement à Warhammer 40 000 avec 3 invités : Beiden, Lemi et Domo de la team Chmecs MC (à voir sur twitch et youtube). Une émission fleuve imposée par Eskarina et Omega et qui voulaient nous péter la gueule si on refusait (c'est faux).Super Gamerside est un podcast autoproduit actif depuis 2009, soutenu par Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/supergamerside), et disponible un peu partout. Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

In this episode of LEMI Works, hosts Tatiana Fallon and Heidi Christianson dive into what makes LEMI uniquely powerful for parents and educators dedicated to Leadership Education. Through engaging discussions, they explore the historical roots of liberal arts and its critical role in developing young minds capable of deep inquiry, civic responsibility, and resilience. Tatiana shares personal insights on the significance of classic liberal arts and project-based learning, guiding listeners through how LEMI nurtures not just academic skills but also character and purpose. Discover how LEMI's distinctive approach equips students to navigate challenges with integrity and how, as parents and mentors, we can foster environments that champion meaningful growth and lifelong learning. 00:00 Introduction to LEMI Works 00:16 Hosts' Personal Updates 00:54 Long-term Vision of LEMI 01:38 The Impact of Historical Events on Education 04:52 The Spirit of Western Civilization 06:27 Challenges in Modern Education 12:48 The Importance of Liberal Arts 33:07 The Liber Cycle and Project-Based Learning 44:01 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Už 230 tisíc Čechů se podívalo na nejstřeženější místa republiky - například do reaktorových sálů nebo do velínů jaderných elektráren. S VR brýlemi na očích absolvovali prohlídku Temelína, Dukovan nebo vodní elektrárny Dlouhé stráně, a to včetně částí, kam se běžný člověk nedostane. VR realita je tak autentická, že například při pohledu z chladicí věže Temelína se člověku zatočí hlava.

In this inspiring episode of LEMIWorks! Podcast, Heidi Christianson sits down with master mentor Kathy Mellor to uncover the magic behind Unleashing Your Voice, a groundbreaking public speaking and debate program. Ever wondered what happens when students (and mentors!) overcome their fear of public speaking? Kathy's innovative two-day format shows us exactly that. On day one, youth take center stage while mentors observe, followed by a powerful day of mentor coaching instruction. What makes this approach special? Kathy reveals how the coaching environment transforms traditional teaching into an experience where students actually welcome feedback – a game-changer in education. The results speak for themselves. Picture a student so terrified they could only watch through a door, later becoming a confident debater. Or imagine a young person who once hid under chairs blossoming into a lead performer. These aren't just success stories – they're testimonials to how public speaking skills can revolutionize a student's journey through all LEMI projects. Ready to bring this transformation to your community? LEMI is thrilled to continue offering this exceptional program. Find out more information HERE. Contact us at registerLEMI@gmail.com or visit LEMIHomeschool.com to learn more about hosting an Unleashing Your Voice seminar. 00:00 Welcome to LEMI Works 00:25 Unleashing Your Voice: A Personal Story 02:38 The Impact of Public Speaking 03:18 The Two-Day Seminar Format 05:04 The Power of Coaching 07:25 From Competitive Speaking to Homeschooling 19:53 Transformative Experiences 26:35 The Importance of Debate 28:41 Critique of Political Debates 30:28 LEMI Projects and Public Speaking 32:53 Unleashing Your Voice and The Golden Microphone 36:19 Student Success Stories 39:17 The Impact of Leadership Education 48:01 Nate Bothwell's Inspiring Journey 53:39 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

We're excited to bring you an exclusive episode featuring Lemi Tamang, a true trailblazer in Nepal's beauty industry. From humble beginnings to becoming the most sought-after makeup artist in the country, Lemi's story is nothing short of inspiring. In this episode, Lemi opens up about her passion for makeup and shares how she turned her dreams into reality by launching her own cosmetics brand, Pastel Beauty, and opening the doors to her chic boutique clothing store, Jade. But that's not all—she's also the mastermind behind Inara by Lemi, her luxury salon in Tangal, where beauty meets elegance. Get ready to hear Lemi's thoughts on the evolving beauty scene in Nepal, her entrepreneurial journey, and how she continues to redefine what it means to be a woman in business. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur or just love a great success story, this episode is for you! Tune in on Spotify now and listen to the woman who's shaping Nepal's beauty industry, one brush stroke at a time.

Erken oy verme işlemi 7 Eylül'de başlıyor. Oy verme işlemi 8 Eylül hariç 13 Eylül'e kadar sürecek.

Join Tiffany Earl and Aneladee Milne, the founders of LEMI, as they explore the world of quality mentoring in this enlightening episode. Tiffany and Aneladee dive deep into how effective mentoring can positively transform education, home environments, and children's lives. They share their expertise on crucial elements that make mentoring truly impactful. Whether you're an educator, parent, or simply interested in personal growth, this episode offers valuable insights into the art of guiding others toward their full potential. Tune in to discover how quality mentoring can make a lasting difference in our lives and communities. BOOKS, ETC. Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking by Malcom Gladwell Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig Boundaries by Henry Cloud & John Townsend The Quality School by William Glasser The Seven-Lesson Schoolteacher by John Taylor Gatto (PDF) 00:00 Introduction to the Classic Conversation 01:27 The Power of Quality Mentoring 02:19 Defining Quality in Education 04:52 The Seed Crystal Analogy 09:28 Great Mentoring vs. Poor Mentoring 23:16 The Role of Personal Values 44:07 Embracing Ownership and Resilience 45:37 The Role of Mentors in Education 47:55 Teaching Emotional Security 50:15 Understanding Boundaries and Emotional Dependency 58:36 Intellectual Honesty and Self-Reflection 01:04:02 Personal Divine Nature and Self-Esteem 01:10:09 Quality Mentoring and Efficiency Mentality 01:21:27 The Power of Belief in Mentoring

Are you concerned that your homeschooling experience, even your LEMI community, is just on the “conveyor belt?” In this episode of LEMI Works, hosts Tatiana Fallon and Heidi Christianson discuss the challenges and misconceptions surrounding project-based, transformational education with LEMI (Leadership Education Mentoring Institute). The discussion delves into the comparison between LEMI's education model and the traditional ‘conveyor belt' approach of public schools, emphasizing the importance of personal choice, self-development, and individualized goals over standardized outcomes. The hosts explore the intents behind various LEMI projects such as Key of Liberty, Shakespeare, and Hero, and their roles in a holistic educational process. They also touch on the principle of allowing flexibility within structured guidelines to honor the phases of learning and individual student needs, while fostering a supportive community environment. This episode aims to inspire and equip mentors and parents to better navigate the educational journey of their children. 00:00 Introduction to LEMI Works 00:23 Addressing the Conveyor Belt Concern 01:10 Understanding the Widget Concept in Education 02:02 Assembly Line Principles in Education 04:37 LEMI vs. Public School: Key Differences 07:02 The Role of Mentors in LEMI Projects 09:44 Balancing Community and Individual Needs 10:10 Plato's Republic and the Pursuit of Utopia 22:15 Phases of Learning and Project Suitability 23:27 Challenges in Implementing LEMI Projects 27:47 The Importance of Principles in Education 30:36 Listening to Students: Transformational Teaching 31:38 Challenges and Rewards of Personalized Teaching 33:23 Mentoring Through Historical Contexts 35:12 Using World War II to Teach Compassion 36:22 The Goal of Education: Building Humanity 38:50 Intent and Structure of Scholar Projects 45:48 Navigating the LEMI Continuum 51:42 Balancing Fear and Educational Choices 53:48 The Bigger Picture: Lifelong Learning 57:02 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement

In this Classic Call episode, Tiffany Earl and Aneladee Milne, founders of LEMI, guide listeners through an engaging lesson on the Capacity Triangle. The episode also includes elaboration on overcoming personal and educational roadblocks and the importance of the teacher-student-parent relationship in effective mentoring. Please be sure to like & share! And if you'd like to learn more about Leadership Education and LEMI, we have a free online course on our membership site LEMI-U.com. 00:00 Introduction to the Episode 00:20 Drawing the Famous Triangle 01:53 Understanding the Pythagorean Theorem 02:41 Applying the Theorem with Examples 07:22 Character, Competence, and Capacity 10:11 Exploring Competence 13:05 The Importance of Capacity 27:44 The Hero Cycle 34:37 Overcoming Emotional Traps 36:07 Logical vs. Emotional Thinking 36:59 Identifying and Naming Traps 37:49 The Final Test and Push Forward 39:16 Recognizing Roadblocks 44:52 Common Walls and Roadblocks 45:57 Paths to Overcoming Walls 51:17 The Role of Faith and Mentorship 51:55 Practical Examples and Personal Stories 59:23 The Character and Competence Triangle 01:05:58 Engaging Parents in Education 01:08:26 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In this episode Tatiana Fallon discusses the fundamentals and benefits of project-based learning with Aneladee Milne. They explore how this educational approach contrasts with traditional subject-based learning, emphasizing sustained curiosity, long-term retention, and developmental appropriateness. The conversation delves into practical implementations of project-based learning, highlighting the importance of creating an engaging and inspiring educational environment for children both in family settings and broader communities. Key insights include nurturing children's natural interests and the vital role of curiosity in effective learning. The episode also addresses common concerns for parents transitioning to project-based learning, offering reassurance and practical strategies to ensure their children's success. Enjoy! If you'd like to learn more about Leadership Education, Project-Based Learning, and LEMI, please check out our free membership site – LEMI-U.com – and sign up for our complimentary Essential Foundations course! 00:00 Welcome to LEMI Works! 00:28 Introduction to Project Learning 01:31 The Science Behind Project Learning 03:35 Contrasting Project Learning with Traditional Models 05:39 The Importance of Mixed-Age Learning 09:19 Family Projects and Community Learning 13:01 Challenges and Benefits of Project Learning 15:55 Real-Life Examples and Lessons 17:28 Starting Project Learning at Home 24:30 The Chicken Project: A Learning Experience 27:59 The Importance of Reading and Tutoring 28:16 Balancing Homeschooling and External Help 29:23 Creating a Learning Environment 30:37 Managing Electronics and Encouraging Creativity 32:38 Incorporating Thematic Units and Projects 35:49 Dealing with Resistance and Encouraging Ownership 38:20 The Role of Community and Tutors 39:14 Personal Experiences and Struggles 44:31 The Benefits of Project-Based Learning 51:34 Final Thoughts and Encouragement

In the latest episode of LEMIWorks!, hosts Tatiana Fallon and Heidi Christianson, alongside guests Camille McCausland and Diana Petersen, dive into Cameron Wright's The Rent Collector. The conversation brings to light how education, depicted as a beacon of hope in the novel, serves as a powerful catalyst for change and empowerment. Our guests share their rich mentoring experiences, linking the book's profound messages to broader themes such as personal growth and societal roles. This episode not only sparks reflection on the transformative lessons from The Rent Collector but also underscores the significant impact we can have on those around us. Tune in to LEMIWorks! for more engaging discussions blending literature, personal growth, and professional development. We hope this episode inspires deeper reading experiences and sharing the transformative power of stories. Interested in learning more about LEMI and Leadership Education? Check out our free online course on our membership website – LEMI-U. You can register HERE. 00:00 Introduction to the Book Discussion01:14 Initial Impressions and Personal Impact03:23 Character Analysis: Sopeap Sin and Sang Ly06:06 The Power of Reading and Mentorship08:02 Personal Reflections and Broader Themes15:14 Transformative Books and Their Impact19:31 Sopeap's Mentorship and Life Lessons27:31 The Power of Education in Overcoming Evil29:00 Balancing Family and Personal Growth31:28 The Impact of Feminism on Marriage Dynamics37:12 Teaching Deeper Understanding and Symbolism44:39 Creative Approaches to Engaging Students51:33 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections

Discover the unseen hurdles of homeschooling through the eyes of Heidi Christianson and Tatiana Fallon, seasoned veterans who've been where you are now. From the initial jitters fueled by fear to the multifaceted demands on your wallet, heart, and time, homeschooling is no small feat. Yet, it's one of the most rewarding journeys you can embark on. Dive into a compelling conversation about the transformative power of homeschooling done right, guided by the principles of the Leadership Education and LEMI. This isn't just about hitting the books—it's about nurturing character, competence, and a lifelong passion for learning. Learn how the backbone of a successful homeschooling experience lies in the strength of family and community ties, setting the stage for your child's future achievements. Ready to transform your homeschooling journey from overwhelming to empowering? Let's dive in. LINKS Switch: How to Change Things When Change is Hard by Chip and Dan Heath The Status Game: On Human Life and How to Play It by Will Storr The Perfectionists: How Precision Engineers Created the Modern World by Simon Winchester The Chosen by Chaim Potok Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury 00:00 Introduction to Homeschooling Challenges and Solutions00:39 The Role of Fear in Starting Homeschooling02:33 Transitioning from Fear to a Love of Learning02:51 Personal Homeschooling Stories and Decisions03:47 The Ideal Approach to Homeschooling04:58 Embracing Leadership Education for Homeschooling06:19 The Power of Learning Through Fun and Projects08:58 The Importance of Loving to Learn14:35 Navigating the Status Game in Education27:44 Preparing Kids for an Uncertain Future35:51 Exploring the Impact of Leadership Education36:46 The Role of Family and Community in Leadership41:19 Personal Stories of Leadership and Family Dynamics46:08 The Importance of Reading Classics and Building Community46:17 LEMI's Mission and the Value of Homeschooling53:16 The Transformative Power of Teaching and Learning01:10:09 Concluding Thoughts on Leadership Education and Its Broader Impact

On this week's episode, we have actor Jamie Kaler (My Boys, Tacoma FD, Robot Chicken and many many more) and we talk about his career path as well as his experiences doing stand-up. There's so much more so make sure you tune in.Show NotesJamie KalerIMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0435695/Jamie Kaler on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_KalerJamie Kaler on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamiekaler/?hl=enJamie Kaler on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/jamiekalerA Paper Orchestra on Website: https://michaeljamin.com/bookA Paper Orchestra on Audible: https://www.audible.com/ep/creator?source_code=PDTGBPD060314004R&irclickid=wsY0cWRTYxyPWQ32v63t0WpwUkHzByXJyROHz00&irgwc=1A Paper Orchestra on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Audible-A-Paper-Orchestra/dp/B0CS5129X1/ref=sr_1_4?crid=19R6SSAJRS6TU&keywords=a+paper+orchestra&qid=1707342963&sprefix=a+paper+orchestra%2Caps%2C149&sr=8-4A Paper Orchestra on Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/203928260-a-paper-orchestraFree Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Newsletter - https://michaeljamin.com/newsletterAutogenerated TranscriptJamie Kaler:He goes, Hey, just so you know, when you do watch it, we were running long for time. So we cut the tag. I go, you mean the reveal where I kissed the woman? He goes, yeah, we ran out of time and we cut it. I go, then everything I did up to that moment has no justification whatsoever because this is the craziest thing. He goes, I know. He goes, what are you going to do with tv? I go, all, whatever. And I moved on and I was like, couldn't care less. ButMichael Jamin:You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about conversations in writing, art, and creativity. Today's episode is brought to you by my debut collection of True Stories, a paper orchestra available in print, ebook and audiobook to purchase And to support me in this podcast, please visit michael jamin.com/book and now on with the show.Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? Well, today I'm talking about acting with my guest, Jamie Kaler. This guy, before I bring him on this guy's credits are crazy. He works a lot and so I'm going to blow, yeah, blow through. I'm going to do the abridge version. If not, we'll be here all day, but I'm going to go way back. I'm on IM db now. I'm only doing the ones that I decide are highlights. But Jag, he's been on Fringe Friends. Suddenly. Susan Carnival, third Rock in the Sun, king of Queens, grounded for Life, married to the Kelly's Arrested Development, Spanglish, seventies show. What else Will and Grace, the Family Stone? Who remembers that? Monk New Adventures of Old Christine Sons and Daughters. How I Met Your mother, my boys. We know 'em from that. And then did I say Parenthood? Did I say shake it up? Did I say Austin and Allie? Did I say Teachers of the Year? I don't remember. I'm skipping crazy Ex-girlfriend. Jesus, dude. It doesn't end the middle Dads in Parks. Oh, we'll talk about that. Heather's robot Chicken. American Housewife. Most recently Taco fd where my partner and I created the character of Polanski. Jamie, that was exhausting. Are we done with the interview now?Jamie Kaler:Honestly, it was so much fun being here, man. All right, everybody, take care. See you later.Michael Jamin:That was such good advice. Sorry, you guys all missed it. Dude, you've been around. How did you get into acting? How does someone get into acting? By the way,Jamie Kaler:People ask me nowadays, and I go, dude, it's nothing. I mean now it's like don't even move to la just start a YouTube channel in upstate Minnesota and try to blow up. And then once you have a following, then you're set.Michael Jamin:But we were talking about on your podcast, the parent lounge, but I know you think it's like a burden, but I think it actually works in your advantage to you, to your advantage because you're really good at it. You're good. You have a great social media presence. You're quick on your feet. It seems to me this, even though it requires more work for you, it actually works in your favor. No,Jamie Kaler:You mean social media doing it this way? Yeah, of course it is, but I already did it. So now I'm kind of the same way that I used to go buy wigs and glue on mustaches and actually lit myself on fire on stage at Acme Comedy Theater when I was doing crazy shows on Friday and Saturday nights in the nineties with that fervor of what are we doing today? We're going to Goodwill, we're going to get some costumes, here we go. And I remember renting equipment, trying to shoot shorts and trying to clerks, and Ed Burns had made the brothers McMullan or whatever, and it was like, come on, we're making film. It was super hard and it was painful and it was costly. And nowadays you can do it with your phone. But I'm older, I don't quite have the drive. I also am watching two little kids.So the time in the day is where I used to go, this is my day. I'm going to go do this now. I'm like, I dropped the kids at school. I had to go to the cleaners. I taking care of the two kids. I got to pick them up. I'm coaching soccer today. So yes, I will say though, especially watching you and you're a writer, but now you have to become a social media guru to get people to see what you've created and you're an artist. But nowadays, gosh, I was posting something this morning about the pregnant pause is gone pretty soon. Humans are going to evolve where the eyes instead of side by side are over the top of each other because horizontal's over everything's vertical. We need to flip our eyes. And years from now, no one will take a breath because we've dictated that. The breath makes people lose attention though. You can take a pause. People goMichael Jamin:Done. IJamie Kaler:Can't. He took a breath. I can't.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. So I just had this conversation yesterday. I dropped an audio audiobook, and so some woman said I was doing a live, she goes, oh, I bought your audiobook. I love it, but I listened to it on one and a quarter speed. But I'm like, but when I take a pause, it's because I want to put a pause there. I want to give you a moment to soak it in. It's not arbitrary.Jamie Kaler:I wanted to take a Richard Pryor act from his comedy special and cut all the air out of it. And so you would take a 50 minute, one hour special where there's a groove. He's in the moment. It would be like if you took Buddy Rich and you took all the space between the drum beats out. You're like, a lot of the art is in the space, and we have forgotten that. And now it's like it's a machine gun or people's brains shut off.Michael Jamin:This is something when we're shooting a sitcom, often, we'll tell the actor, make sure you hold for a laugh here. Hold for the laugh. You will get one. Yeah. What do we do about this?Jamie Kaler:Well, I don't know because I was watching, have you watched Show Gun?Michael Jamin:No. Am I supposed to watch that?Jamie Kaler:It's new. It's based on the book. Oh my gosh, it's glorious. I had never read the book. 16 hundreds. Futile Japan, A simple, brutal, vicious life of it's gorgeous. They had a full society. It's like the 16 hundreds. Wait,Michael Jamin:Where am I watching this? What can I get?Jamie Kaler:It's on FX and on Hulu and Portuguese and Portugal and England are the two powerhouses on the earth, and they are at war, and they're basically fighting for ownership of the east, even though the east are, they're like, wait, we're here. No one's going to own us. So it's all about that, but it's just this beautifully, I mean, it's like art. It's like going to the museum, seeing this story unfold, but people's brains nowadays, some do just riddling. 30 seconds of garbage on TikTok will get a gillion times more views than that. Because I talked to somebody who said, Hey, have you seen Shogun? Someone's like, oh, it just seems slow. And I was like, it's one of the greatest stories of all time. It's one of the bestselling books of all time. It's history and gorgeous and art, and it's beautifully shot. And they're like, ah, boring. I don't have time for that crap.Michael Jamin:We have, right? So what do we doJamie Kaler:If everything accelerates? There has to be a point where the human brain, it's like when they go, oh, this TV's 4K, and you're like, dude, I'm in my fifties. I can't even see 5K. I can't see any K anymore. It's like so resolution. It doesn't really matter. At some point your brain can't acceptMichael Jamin:It. Well, worse than that, so my TVs, I have a nice plasma plasma, but it's probably 15 years old at a cost a fortune when I got it. But the new ones, the resolution's so clear, it kind of looks like you're watching a bad TV show. You know what I'm saying? You watch a expensive movie and it looks like it's bad TV because I'm seeing too much.Jamie Kaler:The human face is not supposed to be seen with that much resolution. You see people and you're like, oh, that dude had a rough nightMichael Jamin:Where youJamie Kaler:Used to be able to hide it, and now you're like, no, no, no, no.Michael Jamin:Right? But then now have you had these conversations with your agent and your managers, or is this just when we were talking about building your social media following, are they telling you this or are you just like, your friends are doing it now? I got to do it too.Jamie Kaler:You mean why try to build this? Well, it's also, listen, it's funny because my wife will give me grief sometimes, and she goes, your stories are too slow. Which is crazy because I'm one of the fastest speakers who's ever lived. Sometimes when I'm working, people go, you need to bring it down a little bit. But on social media, if I don't want to sit and take a 92nd video and edit it down to a minute to take out the 30 seconds of pauses, because some guy, but that's the dilemma. Everything's the lowest common denominator. The jokes are I see something that blows up and I go, that was a great joke when George Carlin told that in 1972, and it was really well written and scripted, and now you've kind of bastardized it and you've put it into a ten second with no, your speaking voice is intolerable. But I get it, that's what people want. They're scrolling through and you're like, that's how it works. So I'm also a dinosaur man. It's like my daughters are 10 and they're already do flying through stuff. I mean, I don't know how to stop it.Michael Jamin:Do you know people, I mean, obviously back in the day when you'd go to auditions now everything's you submit. But back in the day, I'm sure you were going to audition and they're the same 10 actors that you would see trying out for the same part. Do you think they're doing the same thing that you're doing building of social media presence?Jamie Kaler:Well, I think you have to. Nowadays, honestly, I see that the social media presence, it is number one, you don't have to go learn how to act. You don't have to learn how to be a standup comic. You don't have to learn these skills and slowly build your way up the top. You do it because you're a personality. People are intrigued, not by people who are, they're intrigued by humans. It's a voyeuristic thing, I think, where people are like, you'll see somebody and they're just talking to camera. They're not even good speakers. There's something off. There's a crazy story. And maybe they've just been doing it for 15 straight years and built up a following and put some money behind it, put some ads, made sure they got some clicks. Maybe they bought a few followers, and you're like, but the craft, the art of what you do as a writer. I mean, is it slowly falling? But that's the problem nowadays with my kids, we just got the report cards and really good grades, but you can see on the standardized test, they're reading is starting to slip because kids don't read. It's too slow for them. Their brain is like, well, they just can't slow. People cannot slow down anymore. And it's Where does it goMichael Jamin:From here? I dunno, but I have to say that. So a lot of this is, I don't think this is coming from producers. I was on a show a few years ago, maybe let's say 10 years ago, and the studio or the network rather wanted us to cast a guy with a big social media following for this role. And I'm like, wait, really? Why? What about an act? Can we just get an actor? This Hollywood? Aren't there actors everywhere? And it's because networks are having a hard time marketing their show. And these people with followings, they can market their own show.Jamie Kaler:Kevin Hart. I mean, I remember something. They were like, well, you're going to post about the movie. And he's like, if you pay me, and they were like, why would we pay you? You're in the movie. He goes, yeah, you paid me for my acting services now you want me to be your publicist. If you want me to publicize this film, you will pay me for it because I accumulated these 50 million followers on my own. Why would I just give it to you?Michael Jamin:But here's where I'm curious about that though. I'm not sure if he doesn't post, I get his point, why should I do the marketing as well? But if he doesn't do the marketing, it'll hurt him for his next movie because it won't perform as well in the box office. You know what I'm saying?Jamie Kaler:Yes. It's a double-edged sword. But I also think he doesn't care.Michael Jamin:HeJamie Kaler:Doesn't care. He doesn't care because he has that following. He will, and they'll put it into the budget. I'm sure the agents and managers are like, all right, so this is his money that you're going to pay him. This is part of the marketing fee you're going to. And listen, I totally understand it. I'm sure I've lost parts because people have gone over to go, his following is not as big as this guy. At the end of the day, could a ton of other people played Polanski? Absolutely. Would they have huge followings? Yes, of course. So I feel lucky anytime I get a job to promote it, I feel like I'm qualified for that job. But I also know it's, you look back at the history of film and Philip Seymour Hoffman died, the five projects he had ready to go, they just replaced him.He's arguably one of the greatest actors of our generation. Nobody missed a beat. So are we all replaceable? Absolutely. Are we lucky to be in the business? Yeah. I mean, I would argue writers are more necessary because you're creating the project to start with. But as an actor, unless you're Daniel Day Lewis or somebody who's that crazy of a craft, then it's about chemistry, I think. Anyway. But you have to, those people are trying to get their films out, and so there's so much white noise on a daily basis that to cut through that, they're like, well, if this guy has 5 million followers and he puts up one post, what they don't see is that only 3% of those 5 million people even see. But thisMichael Jamin:Is where I think the studios and the networks have really screwed up royally, is that they haven't figured out a way to build their own brand. So my wife and I will watch a movie or a TV show, we'll get halfway through it and all the night, we'll say, let's watch the rest tomorrow. Almost all the time. I forget where I watched it, and now I have to search, was it on Netflix? Did I watch it on Amazon? Where did I watch this? Because there's no brand anymore without a brand. They can't market their shows. They have to rely on other me and you to market their shows. It puts us in the driver's seat, not them. This is like a major blunder on their parts, I feel.Jamie Kaler:It's not just them. I'd say standup clubs, back in the day, you did a bunch of shows. You finally put a tape together, you sent it to a club. The club had a following, the club had the following. And you knew if you went to that club, you were going to see Richard, Jenny, Brian Regan, Jerry Seinfeld, you knew these guys. Whatever show you went to, you were going to be surprised, but you'd be like, man, those guys are really funny. Nowadays, the club is literally a rental space that you bring the following to. That's why they book influencers who have millions of followers, and then they get on stage. And I guess some are good and some maybe don't have, it's a different skill levelMichael Jamin:When you go, do you still perform comedy standJamie Kaler:Up? I do. I used to tour a ton before the kids, and I was on the road all the time. And then once the kids were born, I didn't really want to do that as much. So now I stay home. So I kind of cherry pick gigs to go out for. And the road's a lot different, I feel like, than it used to be.Michael Jamin:So do you feel the quality of the standups, they're not quite as good anymore? Some people are, would you sound like old men? Which one is it?Jamie Kaler:Absolutely. And I say that all the time. I'm a dinosaur. But I will say that maybe the skill nowadays is not being a standup comic, but being a social media manipulator. And I mean that it's always been the skill. People used to hire publicists even back then, and I never did. And they'd be in People Magazine and I'd be like, what's the point of all that? And then as I got older, I was like, oh, fame allows you to do the jobs you want to do. That's really the trick. But I mean, to be Tom Cruise, I never wanted that because that dude can't leave his house. He can't just go to the supermarket, can't go to a park. I never wanted that. But that makes him and DiCaprio, those are the guys that are Johnny Greenlight. They get the first choice of scripts. And so they are allowed to do these amazing jobs that because how many people do you think nowadays can sell a picture?Michael Jamin:Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the whole thing. Or can open, I don't know. Do you think it's more or less, I guess I would imagine it's probably less now. I mean, because celebrities changed. What do you think?Jamie Kaler:I think the era of the movie Star is over. IMichael Jamin:Think Tom CruiseJamie Kaler:And Brad Pitt and DiCaprio, are they going to be the end of, and Damon are going to be the end of it? I mean, no. You see one of her on Netflix and it's like a TikTok, Charlie Delio. I haven't seen it. Maybe she's a wonderful actress. I don't know. But you go up through that ranks and all of a sudden you have 12 million followers or whatever, and then you could sell, I mean, it's Kardashian really was, we all gave her grief, but in retrospect, they were the smartest people in the room. They saw it coming to their credit and made a gillion dollars off of it, whether that's what you want to do with your life. But my kids kids want to start a YouTube page and a TikTok, and I'm like, she's 10. She's 10 years old. That'sMichael Jamin:Too soon.Jamie Kaler:Yeah. I mean, can everyone on earth just be, can we keep an economy running if everyone's just an influencer? I don't know.Michael Jamin:Well, there's the big question, right? If everyone's trying to, yeah, IJamie Kaler:Mean, look at what you're doing. You wrote a book, you sat down, probably took quite a while. It's a very good book. Thank you. I've read it and it's like, but the point is, almost everybody's wrote in a book now, and everybody's a standup comic and everyone's a performer. And back when I did it, it was like people were like, oh my God, you do standup. I'm would never do that. I'm terrified now. I'll be it like a supermarket. And some woman's like, some grandma's like, oh, I do stand up every Tuesday night at retirement home. And you're like, it'sMichael Jamin:Not. But I also feel like you're reinventing yourself, though. I mean, that's got to be exciting and interesting. No, orJamie Kaler:Of course it is. Of course it is. I do listen. I love doing it. And everyone else, it's a love hate relationship because I'll think of something immediately, I'll put together a little funny bit that I, it's like a standup bit or something, and then I'll be able to share it with all my fans and they will respond accordingly. And you're like, oh yeah, this actually is a pretty good, I just also think we're the learning curve. We're the first generation to go through all this.Michael Jamin:Wait, let me tell you how I hoard myself out this morning. So I wondered, because I'm posting a lot to promote my book. I'm doing a lot of lives, and I'm like, I see other people do lives, and I'm not sure what that magic is. They're cooking eggs or whatever. Are we watching this person cooking eggs? Is this right? So I'm like, all right. I told my wife, today's pushup day. So I'm like, all right, I guess maybe I'll just do pushups and people will that work. And I did pushups on live and I don't know, 20 people watched. And I was like, I felt kind of stupid about the whole thing, but people were watching, I don't know, is this what I got to do now,Jamie Kaler:Pushups, I fear it is. If that's what you want to do for a living, I think this is, if you want to be in this business, I think that's the necessity of it. To be honest, I'm not sure I would've ever signed up for this if I knew, although when I was younger, I probably would've like, Ugh, I would've been Truman shown the wholeMichael Jamin:Thing, right? But you wouldn't.Jamie Kaler:I do wonder, my kids, I think they were at their friend's house or something, and they Googled me. They told me, and they're getting to that age, and I'm like, uhoh, what did you watch? And they watched some crazy video I did where I said something stupid or whatever. And I don't know if every moment of our lives is supposed to be captured. I don't know what the answer is. I have such a love hate certain days. I wake up and I go, even this morning I was telling you I was writing a bit about something or other. And then another day I'll wake up and I go, I don't want to do any of it. I just want to go golf. And that was the beauty. I became an actor because it was the easiest thing. I worked hard to become a good actor. I took classes, worked on my craft, but I wasn't, I wasn't on 24 7 trying,Michael Jamin:Tell me if you feel this way, because if I don't, I try to post almost every day. And if I take one or two days off, that turns into three or four. You know what I'm saying? It gets easy not to do it.Jamie Kaler:Of course, of course. But do you feel guilty after those two or three days? Do you have any guilt or do you actually go, oh, what am I doing? This feels great.Michael Jamin:Yeah, it is mixed like you're saying, but a lot of it is like, this is my job. This is how you get a book out there. This is how you can, I work so hard not to work. You know what I'm saying?Jamie Kaler:I'm working harder now than I ever did when all those credits were being made. Yeah,I would bust my ass. I would get ready. And also acting is about physicality. I would make sure I was in shape. I'd work out, I'd do all this stuff, and then I would go either do an audition and then there'd be downtime, and you'd be like, all right. All right. And then you'd kind of ramp it up again. Now it's like just constant blinders on of, and then the problem also I see is the follow-up. When you performed on stage, you either got to laugh right then and there, and you moved on. But now my wife, we have long conversations on Instagram as well.Michael Jamin:What does she do? What does she do on Instagram? What does she, I don't even know what does, sheJamie Kaler:Works in the pharmaceutical industry.Michael Jamin:So why is she, oh, I think you told me. Why is she on Instagram? Oh, does she post on Instagram?Jamie Kaler:She posts, but she has her own page, and then so she's very specific about it. She'll edit and quiz me and I go, do you want to hear my, I don't care. Nobody cares. Just post it. But it's like, well, what do you think this picture or this? I go, nobody cares. What song do you think this song? Is this song saying too much about me? Or should I feel like maybe I should use it? Should it just be instrumental? I go, okay, I don't care. The trick is to post and walk away. And then people will, for the rest of the day, scroll, because it's the dopamine of like, oh, so-and-So ooh, did you know? So-and-So just like that post I put up this morning, I don't know where this ends, but I find that some days if I just do something physical where I'm digging in the garden in the backyard, it's the greatest three hours of my life where I'm like, I didn't think about anything. I don't know. I don't know where it ends, but yeah. But we're also too, get off my lawn old guys who are like, why? You might have kids,Michael Jamin:But how much time do you think you put on social media every day, either way that you're working on or thinking of working on it or whatever?Jamie Kaler:Well, so I wasn't really, I never cared. I never cared. It was just recently that I've started to make an effort during the pandemic kind of destroyed me. I stayed with two kids. I had a kindergartner and a second grader, and my wife was working 12 hours a day. We have an office in the house where she was gone. Oh, wow. We didn't see her for 12 hours a, and I think part of it, she was hiding because it was the pandemic. We also having construction done on the house, it was arguably the worst time in my life. So I was trying to maintain the kids. So I printed out schedules. I made them put their school uniforms on. I took two desks. I set them up on opposite ends of the house. They were doing it on Zoom, but one's in kindergarten and one's on second grade.So they weren't old enough to really go. I got it at nine 40. They'd be released for recess. I'd have to get them snacks at 1130. It was lunch at two 50. School ended, and then we were trying to maintain sanity. So I started this kind of parental mental health zoom at night. And obviously we were drinking extensively pandemic mental health, but drinking, it was mental health, and we were sipping hardcore and sharing horrible stories. And so it grew into this. I started this thing called the Dad Lands, and it just grew. It was just Zoom. It wasn't even a podcast or anything. And that kind of caught on. I mean, there were guys, I was like, dude, don't kill yourself. We're going to get through this thing guys. Were hanging on by a thread. And we made ourselves all feel better because we were seeing that everyone else was going through this nightmare.And that eventually grew into the Parents Lounge podcast with my other buddy who was in it. He was doing Dad Apocalypse. I was doing Dad Lands. We started a podcast. I'm not a promoter, so I really love doing the podcast. We were doing it live. You've come and done it. The parents lounge, it's super fun. It's a parental mental health night. I've kind of laid off the sauce since then, and all of a sudden it kind of grew into this thing, but we never marketed it. We would just throw it out there and then the other dude would put it up on iTunes, but we wouldn't even put a post of like, Hey, Dave Ners on this Monday. Nothing. Just threw it in the ocean, because I don't want to be a marketer. I didn't move to Hollywood to be a publicist. It's not what I do.So finally, we're at the crap or get off the pot phase of look, we have a pretty good following, considering we haven't put one ounce of work into the promotional part of it. And so finally, everyone's like, look, dude, you either have to become a promoter or you are wasting your time. You need to monetize. We could do some live gigs here and there, but all of a sudden ruffle came in, Justin ruffle was our partner in this thing. And all of a sudden everyone's like, all right, so I committed. I'm committing to trying like you with a book where I feel like we have a really great product. How do we get people to see it? And you're like, this is the way to do it. So we went out and I enjoy stuff like this where we have conversations and we get in depth on stuff. But as far as just constantly putting up a story with a link to the podcast to do this and stuff, well,Michael Jamin:That you can outsource, that's easy. We'reJamie Kaler:Outsourcing it. And so we finally started outsourcing it, and I hadn't outsourced it at all, but it's like I equate it to the Gold Rush. It's like the people who really got rich during the Gold Rush where Levi Strauss and Woolworth and the guys who sold the Pickaxes. So at some point, I should become the outsource guy or something. But yeah.Michael Jamin:Do you see, okay, what are your aspirations with the show? What would you like it to become, if anything?Jamie Kaler:So I love doing the show. I would love a strong following where we've kind of branched off to do other stuff. But honestly, live shows. We have done a few and we're starting to book more. And then to monetize it to a degree, once you start putting all the work into it, you're like, well, maybe we should at least see something. But theMichael Jamin:Live show, you have to produce, you got to bring in equipment mics, you've got to mix it. No, justJamie Kaler:Literally as comics, we show up. I can't tell you the last time I soundcheck, ohMichael Jamin:Wait, wait,Jamie Kaler:We're doing the podcast live. You're talking about, but we do it as here's the beauty of what we do. We're already standups. That was a headline in comic touring the country. I did Montreal Comedy Festival. I've been on late night tv. So for me, that's the easy part. When I used to do standup, it was never about the show. It was more I would peek out and go, is anybody here? And the smartest guys on earth were s, Agora Rogan, Cher Joe, coy, who not only were great comics, but they were also really good at marketing themselves. And so those guys were doing mailing lists for 30 years and building, and I wasn't. I would go sets went great, crush it, and then go have a couple cocktails at the bar. I didn't have kids either. I didn't really care about trying to blow it up. So it was never about the show. It was about getting eyes on it. And I feel like that's where we're at now. We have such a strong, every time we go do it, we crush live. And the question is, how do we get other parents and people to go? This would be a great show to come to. That's really the marketing part of it.Michael Jamin:The tour as Right? Is it all, so it's improv or is it scripted, or what is theJamie Kaler:Show? We have acts, I have two albums on iTunes.Michael Jamin:Oh, okay. So it's a comedy show show.Jamie Kaler:It's a standup comedy show that the Skis is a podcast, really. And we would bring our guests with us, maybe we talked about having Lemi and Heffernan come out and do the podcast live with those guys, but it would be billed as the parents lounge live with these special guests. But it's really a standup show for the audience with under the guise of a podcast. And we have bits and we would do improvisational stuff set up and questions with the audience, for the guests and for everybody else. But we just did, and we did it in Sara, Pennsylvania in the fall. And it was like two hours of just, I'm not even sure I touched that much of my material. We were, we were riffing hard, but we always had the material to step back on. It's like that's my favorite is you have these tracks, but you get off the tracks, you fool around. And if all of a sudden it starts to lag a little bit, you go, all right, here's some bits and then bring 'em back in.Michael Jamin:You are listening to What the Hell is Michael Jamin talking about? Today's episode is brought to you by my new book, A Paper Orchestra, A collection of True Stories. John Mayer says, it's fantastic. It's multi timal. It runs all levels of the pyramid at the same time. His knockout punches are stinging, sincerity. And Kirks Review says, those who appreciate the power of simple stories to tell us about human nature or who are bewitched by a storyteller who has mastered his craft, will find a delightful collection of vignettes, a lovely anthology that strikes a perfect balance between humor and poignancy. So my podcast is not advertiser supported. I'm not running ads here. So if you'd like to support me or the podcast, come check out my book, go get an ebook or a paperback, or if you really want to treat yourself, check out the audio book. Go to michael jamin.com/book. And now back to our show.I mean, I don't know. I see people doing it online. I'd be doing exactly what you're saying. They take their podcast on the road and somehow, how do you think they're selling tickets though?Jamie Kaler:Because their followings are so strong that people, a lot of times also, I see these shows, and to me, the shows, I go, there's no show here. It's just this guy showed up. It's basically a two hour meet and greet. But honestly, that's what some people love. They don't even care. They just want to be in the same room. The guy will tell a couple stories, they'll play some bits on, they'll play bits on a screen and make it a show and they'll record the podcast live. But people are so enthralled by people chatting, I really missed my window. It really was my strong suit back in the day of just riffing and going along with stuff and being in the moment and chatting. But podcasts wasn't happening. And at the time when podcasts started, I was like, are we going back to radio? Why would people listen to podcasts? I was shocked. And yet offMichael Jamin:They were. But your brand is, you're trying to aim it towards parents or men dads, is that right?Jamie Kaler:Well, it's all parents and no, we've toured with moms. We usually take out moms. We've had Tammy Pesca, Kira svi on the show, Betsy Stover. We just had Nicole Birch. I mean, I think you need a mom's point of view. So when we do live shows, we typically bring out a mom as well with us.Michael Jamin:But you're talking, but is the focus basically on kids and parenting?Jamie Kaler:It is to a degree. But I also, sometimes we'll watch some of those shows and it's like sometimes parents don't want to talk about kids, so we kind of go where we go, and it's about life. The whole thing was trying to get people to understand that you see Instagram and you think your life. You're like, why isn't my life like that? The point of our podcast is really to go, nobody's life like that, dude. I mean, when's the last time you met someone who just was not absolutely full of shit? Have you met anybody who's not just full of shit? Anyone? Well,Michael Jamin:The thing is, especially in Hollywood, a lot of people were trying to hype themselves up. And I discovered early on, this is 30 years ago, that was the people who were talking most about their career really had nothing going on. And the people who didn't talk about it, they didn't talk about specifically, they didn't want people to hit 'em up for a job.Jamie Kaler:Know what I'm saying? And I said that exact 0.2 days ago, I was talking to Lori Kmar and she was just saying the same when I got here, if you were the one who were like, look at me, look at me. People were like, that guy's a loser.It was almost, and then all of a sudden, humble, I blame it on humble brag, humble brag. Do you remember hashtag Humble brag? That was the first one where people, it's really just a brag. You see humble, but you're really just bragging. But back in the day, I remember doing Friends and Will and Grace, and it was big. It was big. And I really didn't tell anybody. People would come in and talk to me and go, dude, were you weren't friends last night. And I was like, I was. And they go, why wouldn't you tell us? And I go, it seems dirty. I felt dirty bragging about what I was doing. But nowadays, if you're not constantly brag, brag, brag, brag, brag. People are like, well, I guess he doesn't have anything to promote.Michael Jamin:Yeah, I remember even just people, I'm in the business, they'll say, so humble to accept this. I'm so humbled to accept this award, whatever, where they might've been in sales or whatever. It's like, but you're using the word humbled wrong. That's not what humbled humble means. You're literally bragging.Jamie Kaler:I feel that way every time when I'm acting and the director goes and cut, that was perfect. We're going to do it again. And I go, you're using the word perfect improperly. Perfect means there's nothing better. I think that's exactly the meaning of perfect. And you're not using it correctly. I knowMichael Jamin:One of the things that I always get, this is my pet peeve about being a writer. You'll turn in a draft of a pilot you've been working on for months, and you just turn it in and then they'll say, great. We're setting up a notes call for Wednesday. Isn't it possible you love it? You know, don't like it? You already know there's something you want change. It's likeJamie Kaler:You didn't even read the title and you're like, I have notes.Michael Jamin:I have notes. Of course you do.Jamie Kaler:Well, listen, if they didn't have notes, they wouldn't have a job. And so I think they're like, well, I mean, we have to find something wrong with this thing. They would get the screenplay for the sting and go, I mean, does the guy have to have a limp? I don't get the Robert Shaw limp. It's like, dude, can you just go, this is pretty great. And also you're not a writer. It's not what you do.Michael Jamin:It's hard to, now you're killing me.Jamie Kaler:I did a show one time, I won't say the name of the show, but I did a show. It didn't go anywhere, but my character is a car salesman. I see these two guys come into the showroom and I want to sell them a car, and I think they're gay, so I pretend to be gay. This is of course, back in the time when I guess you could do that without being canceled. So I act gay to them to get them to buy the car, and we're going to be friends and stuff. And at the end of the episode, my character then kisses a woman who's another salesperson as the reveal. He's not gay. He was doing it to do that, whatever. So all week, all week, the studio execs keep coming over and they go, dude, you got to gay it up. You got to amp it up. We are not getting the joke. You have to play this extremely gay. And then they would walk away and the showrunner would walk over and go, dude, I want you to play it dead straight. I don't want you to play gay whatsoever. So after every take two people kept coming over, giving me completely opposite notes, and I didn't know who.Michael Jamin:Wait, I a little, go ahead, finish your story because I want toJamie Kaler:Jump on it. So I'm in the middle. I'm doing it. I'm not pleasing either of them, right? I'm right in the middle of guess, maybe a little after. I don't know. And I have played gay characters numerous times in tv, and usually I don't do anything. It doesn't have to be that way. And so I would play it dead straight. And so the show goes, it's a train wreck of a week. I'm just getting eviscerated on both sides of like, I'm not pleasing anybody because I'm trying to ride the line in the middle of between these 2 180 degree notes, whatever. It's a train wreck. We finished the shoot, I'm miserable. I run into the showrunner maybe three months later and he tells me, oh, he goes, Hey, just so you know, when you do watch it, we were running long for time. So we cut the tag.I go, you mean the reveal where I kissed the woman? He goes, yeah, we ran out of time and we cut it. I go, then everything I did up to that moment has no justification whatsoever. I goes, this is the craziest thing. He goes, I know. He goes, what are you going to do? It's tv. I go, all right, whatever. And I moved on and I was like, couldn't care less. But you're like, again, art, you wrote something. Your brain had this beautiful story you wanted to unfold. And then commerce and everybody has to prove that they're part of the mix and they can't be hands on.Michael Jamin:I'm very surprised that you got notes directly from a studio executive. That's inappropriate. They're supposed to go through the director. IJamie Kaler:Thought the exact same thing. And people, it's not how it worked. They came right up to me. Oh, I've had that many times. I've had studio people talk to me all the time. Yeah, well, also, I wasn't a star. I was a guest.Michael Jamin:Yeah, but still you're not, first of all, the DGA can file a grievance over that if they were to complain the DGA, I think that's part of the thing. But here's how I would've, if I were you, this is what I would've done. I would've done one take over the top and one place straight. Okay, I'm going to do two different takes, two different. And you decide later which one you want to use.Jamie Kaler:I think I did do that to some degree. I don't think I said it out loud about you have fun and edit, and also you as a guest star. It's the greatest job, but it's also the worst job. It is. These people have been locked and loaded. I did friends the week I did it, they were on the cover of Rolling Stone. They'd been burned in the press when they spoke. They weren't outwardly mean to me, but they also weren't like, Hey, welcome to the, they spoke to each other in hushed tones away from, and I didn't blame them. They couldn't go to a supermarket. They were just famous beyond belief. But the set was tense, super tense because a lot riding, not a lot of money on this thing. The shoot was eight hours long after four, they got rid of the first audience, brought a whole nother audience in, and you start to watch the sausage get made and you're like, this is supposed to be fun and comedy, but sometimes these things are super tense.Michael Jamin:Yeah, yeah. So interesting. Do you have any experiences that were great sets that you love working on?Jamie Kaler:So many and listen, even that set the cast was great and friends was great. It was here was the greatest thing about doing friends, or even honestly Will and Grace. I watched Will and Grace, I watched the four of them. Dude, they were a machine combined with the writing staff and Jim Burrows directing. It was like a masterclass, the four of them. And they would rewrite on the fly, they'd do one take and almost rewrite the entire scene. And then you would, they'd go, Jamie, here's your new lines. And I did six episodes over the years and each time I went back it was like, you better bring your A game. Because they would change the whole scene. And they go, so you enter here now you say this and then he's going to say this and you're going to go and you're playing spinning at the four of them. Man, they were honestly maybe the best cast I've ever seen. Really. It was like a Marks Brothers. They just were so perfect in their timing. It was pretty impressive.Michael Jamin:I had Max Nik on my podcast a few weeks ago talking the showrunner. The funny thing is I was touring colleges with my daughter years ago, not that long ago, whatever. We were touring Emerson. And the tour guy goes, oh, and this is the Max Munic building. He goes, anyone know who he is? I'm like, max gave you a building. Yeah. Does anyone know who he is?Jamie Kaler:They were both great. And again, I was overwhelmed because I was so new. And my very first one, gene Wilder, played the boss. I'm the dick in Will's law firm, and I had only done a sitcom or two. And then I got Will and Grace out of nowhere on a crazy afternoon. It was supposed to be another big name guy. And he fell out at the last second. And I got cast and was shooting in the morning and I was terrified. And then I show up in Gene Wilders playing my boss, and I had to do a scene with Willy Wonka. I was like,Michael Jamin:No kidding.Jamie Kaler:By the way, I didn't start acting until I was 30. I was a Navy lieutenant.Michael Jamin:Oh,Jamie Kaler:Really? I was the US Navy. Yeah. That's why I played cops a lot. I was a Navy lieutenant. I got out at like 28. I hung around San Diego. Bartended had fun.Michael Jamin:Why did you get it so early? I think you're supposed to stay in forever and get a great pension.Jamie Kaler:Oh my God. It's like I'm talking to my father. My father banged me. I still have the letters. He and I wrote back and forth where I told him I was getting out and he was so pissedMichael Jamin:BecauseJamie Kaler:He was a pilot. My dad flew in World War ii, my brother was an admiral, and I got out to become an actor, and my father was just furious.Michael Jamin:Whatcha doing? You can one time.Jamie Kaler:Then I booked Jag. One of my first TV shows was, well actually my first show was Renegade with Lorenzo Alamas and Bobby Six Killer though, whatever his name is.Michael Jamin:I know I'm jumping around, but did you know Kevin and Steve before you got booked on? Yes. Yes you did. From whatJamie Kaler:I had done, we bumped into each other once a couple times doing standup. I was doing Thema or something, and then I forget how it's all blurry. I did their podcast, chewing it, and then just kind of hit it off with them. And then they came and did mine. And you talk about sets My boys was my greatest four years of my life. It was just, I met my wife, I bought a house. I was on a billboard on Times Square. We traveled the world. We shot on Wrigley Field in Chicago. I mean, it was glorious. Because of that, I started a headline clubs. It was just this like, oh, here we go. And it wasn't until Tacoma FD where I was on a set where, oh, people came early, people stayed late. You were almost going. It was like it brought you back. A kid being going to theater camp, going, well, here, I'm making a show. But again, as you know, it goes by the eps and number one on the call sheet and that dictates the tenor of the show tone. And they wereMichael Jamin:Both the same. Yeah,Jamie Kaler:Yeah. And those guys, that sets a family, literally everybody. And that's why you also have to be really careful. You can't say anything because everybody's related to everybody and they're all friends. And then Soder came and played Wolf Boykins. And I will tell you, I was super, I love those guys. But there's also a little jealousy of, I've always been a team sport guy. I love Sketch probably more than I like standup because there was something about being on stage with other humans and this chemistry. And then you would get off stage and you're like, can you believe how great that just went? There was this, when you would do standup, it's just you. And when you walk off stage, if you bomb or you crush, you own it. But when you are with a group, I love the group dynamics. Interesting to those guys credit the whole broken lizard.I wish I had the state. I'm jealous of those guys a little bit. Kids in the hall, when I first got out, I had an improv group in San Diego and we ended up doing, we got on the front page. I had been out of the Navy like a year. It was in this crazy improv troop, had no idea what I was doing. And there was three other dudes in it. And the comedy club, the improv, started to hire us to be the feature act. And we would get up. We had no mic, so we'd kind of eat it and then the headliner would come out and go, what the blank was that jackasses? And then do his standup act. But I always wanted that group. You have a comedy partner, you write, you partner. I like that more than the solitary thing. And honestly, to go back to the podcast really quickly, the parents lounge, we didn't have a team.We had no team. And so it wasn't until I brought Phil Hudson and Kevin Lewandowski and then Justin Ruppel and his guy Taylor. And all of a sudden I had a group of people behind me who were like, Hey man, this is a really great product. Let's go. So I guess I'm just a team guy. And when I got to that set at Tacoma fd, I'm so sad it's gone because I just, that and my boys are probably the two highlights of my career, really, personally of joy, of going to work, not feeling pressure like Man Will and Grace. It was fun. It was invigorating, it was exciting, scary. It's a little scary, man. You're like a lot of money. There's a huge audience. There's superstars who are making a million dollars a week. I'd leave the table read and go, that dude just walked with 200 k Monday.Thank you. Monday, 200 K what it must be, same on basketball teams where it's like LeBron James and then that dude from Australia. There's a dynamic there where you're like, yeah, you're not flying home in a jet, my friend. I am. It was weird. So Tacoma fd, those guys never once ever made you feel bad about trying stuff, doing a take where you just explore and you could be funny and you let it rip. I equate it back to Seinfeld. I don't know what it was like on the set, but Seinfeld was one of the few shows where they let the guest stars actually get sometimes bigger laughs than the main cast, which I always find in shows to be the true genius of a show where everyone's there, it's a play. Let it rip. I've been on shows where they, I'll blow it up. I was on the seventies show and I had a couple scenes, and I played this goofy guy with a wig on or whatever, and crushed. I mean, I was a nerd. I was a comic book nerd. Huge laughs. And they took me aside and were like, Hey man, just so you know, you will never get a bigger laugh than the main cast,So you might want to tone it down or we're going to be here all day shooting. And I go, really? And they go, I thought they were joking. And they were like, nah. Yeah. Wow. I probably shouldn't say I'm the worst too. I'll burn myself to say stuff. Well, it's interesting. This business is crazy, man. And you sit there and you think we're just making comedy, but people are,Michael Jamin:Yeah, some people are like that.Jamie Kaler:Yeah. People get their feelings hurt. Those little memos where it's like, don't look so and so in the eye. And you think they're joking. They're not joking.Michael Jamin:You've gotten those memos.Jamie Kaler:I haven't personally. Well, I worked on some big movies where it was like, but I also am not the crazy person who walks up to Christian Bale on Vice and goes, Hey man, dark Knight. Huh? You crushedMichael Jamin:It.Jamie Kaler:I sat next to Christian Bale for a day shooting and he was Dick Cheney unrecognizable. By theMichael Jamin:Way, this guy might be theJamie Kaler:Greatest actor who's ever lived. And he leaned over and he was so nice. Everyone was super kind, but he was nice to meet you. And he talked like Dick Cheney. He goes, nice to meet you. I'm Christian. I go, it's nice to meet you too. But I'm kind of laid back and I try not to, but other people will walk up to Bruce Willis on a set some extra and be like, Hey man, can you read my screenplay? And you're like, dude, read the room. What are you doing?Michael Jamin:What are you doing? What are you doing? PeopleJamie Kaler:Are crazy. That's the problem. And crazy people are drawn to this business. So yeah, I mean, if I was Tom Cruise, I might be the guy who look, just keep everyone away from me. I'm trying to get my job done here.Michael Jamin:Well, you know what though? I mean, I was working in Paramount doing a show and they were shooting, I guess some scenes from Mission Impossible. And he had his trailer, Tom Cruise had his trailer, a giant trailer, and then he had a whole tunnel that he would walk through from his trailer to go to the sound stage because he didn't want people in on the lot looking at him when he walked to the set or bothering him, I don't know. Which I thought was very strange. I was like, but we're all even on Paramount in the business. I guess were bothering would harass him. I'm like, Jesus, this is supposed to be a set studioJamie Kaler:People. And it's even worse now. You go to a broad, remember when people dressed up to go to Vegas? I remember going to Vegas in the eighties and nineties and we brought a sport coat right now it's like cargo shorts, flip flops and beer hat or something. And you're like, there's just no decorum anymore. And people are so, and they're trained by their videos that they can yell and do whatever they want. People go to Broadway shows and just yell out and you're like, what are you doing, man? It's a plane. WhatchaMichael Jamin:Yeah? What are you doing? PeopleJamie Kaler:Are horrible. I know when people, I always laugh when people are like, no, I think deep down people are good. Some, I would argue a good hunk not no have no manners.Michael Jamin:That's probably a remnant from social media where they feel like they can just comment and be mean because they're anonymous, I guess.Jamie Kaler:Well, I think the good thing about social media is that everyone can have their opinion heard. But the worst thing about social media is that everyone can have their opinion heard. Yeah.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Jamie Kaler:I love when people like they're uneducated. They've never left their small town America. And they're like, no, no, I am 100% certain this is a fact. And you're like,Michael Jamin:Yeah,Jamie Kaler:When's the last time anyone has said you've raised some really strong points. I'm going to rethink my position.Michael Jamin:When you do see that, it always stands out to me. It's like, wow, look at you and humble. It does stand out. We'll doJamie Kaler:That. Listen, we're all guilty of it. Even just recently, my wife said something to me, I can't remember exactly what it was, and I think your spouse is the one who can really cut you to the bone. And she said something and I was like, what do you know? And then later I thought about it and I was like, no, she's right. I have been, oh, here's what she said. Here's what she said, something about a post I had. And she said, you just come off angry. And I said, no, no. I'm a comic. I'm pretending to be angry. And I think I went back and I watched the Post and it reminded me back to early on at Acme Comedy Theater, I had this sketch where I was with woman and we were on a date, and it was very Jerry Lewis props humor where I kept getting hurt.I kept getting hurt. The window smashes in my hand, it ends by me lighting a candle and I actually lit my arm on fire and then would roll it out as the lights came down or whatever, and it crushed. It did so well. And one night it just absolutely bombed, just bombed. And I kept pushing harder and harder and it was bombing, and I got off stage and I talked to the director and I was like, dude, terrible audience. Tonight goes, no, no. He goes, your problem was you didn't play frustrated, you played and it didn't work. And I go, what a specific note. And I've always thought about that because me personally with my angular features, you have to go with what you look like as well. And if I play frustrated, I'm super funny, but if I play angry, I come off angry. And so she was right and I had to go. I think maybe in life everybody needs a director because you forget. It's really hard to self-direct yourself because you get lost in these megaphones of your own things that you're like, no, no, I'm on track. This is going great. Instead of going, I wonder how the outside world perceives me.Michael Jamin:That's exactly right. Yeah. When I recorded the audio book for my book, I needed to be directed. Even though I direct, I don't know how I'm coming off. Yeah, I mean that's actually probably the most profound thing I've heard today. Well, the day just started, but everyone needs to have a director.Jamie Kaler:Yeah, it is kind of crazy. Yeah, it's weird because we also get caught up in our own, listen, I will say the world is, and I know I'm an older cat and I look back at simpler time. I don't want to be that guy. I was like, it was easier, but it was easier. I equate it to even crosswalks lately when you were younger, if you were going to take that right turn and the dude was crossing the crosswalk, everyone would make eye contact and they'd hold their hand up and then they might even jog a couple steps to go like, no, no, we're in this together. We're a team. No. And nowadays I go, dude, are you trying to get hit by a car? You didn't even look up? Didn't even look up deliberately, and it feels like you're slowing your walk down. It's so odd what's happening. But I do think, listen, back in the day, people used to, if you were in front of somebody's house and you were waiting for them, you'd pull your car over and slide it up, maybe a few cars up. Now they just put it right in the middle of the street, hit their hazard lights and just wait. And you'll be behind them and they go, I don't care. I don't even know why they sell cars with rear view mirrors. They should just get rid of it. No one's looking behind them. Nobody cares about anybodyMichael Jamin:Else. That's so interesting. Yeah, I mean, you're right about that lot people crossing the, I always think that, boy, you really are trusting of me. You really trust me not to hit you with my car. Jesus. Isn't thatJamie Kaler:Crazy?Michael Jamin:Yeah, sure you get a payday, but I might kill you.Jamie Kaler:I think it was safer back then too because you knew, listen back in those days, you knew to be off the road between 10:00 PM and 2:00 AM when everyone was drunk. Right. You knew it and everyone was like, oh, drunk driving was terrible. Nowadays, 10:00 AM yesterday morning the dude next to me getting high on his phone, so now it's like twenty four seven. That's why I can't believe people, I never crossed the street without making eye contact and going, dude, are you on your phone or are you going to hit me?Michael Jamin:Yeah, you got to look for yourself.Jamie Kaler:Exactly. But again, I'm old, so what do I know? It is weird trying to teach my kids and I mean, we've talked because your kid's a little older, but trying to impart knowledge of the world to them to be aware of their surroundings. I always say they're probably years from now, they'll go, like my father always said, read the court. You got to have full court vision. I see it in cars. My wife will be behind one car and I'll go, you can't see that three cars up. That dude stopped. You are changing lanes. I'm looking five cars ahead.Michael Jamin:ButJamie Kaler:People nowadays, it's just this one little, they just keep their heads down and you're like, pick your head up, man. But people don't.Michael Jamin:Yeah, be careful. I need to know. So I want to know business right now I'm jumping around, but business is still slow for you in terms of acting gigs because from what I see, they're not shooting a lot. Is that what you were seeing?Jamie Kaler:That is true, and I've had a handful of amazing auditions lately. Oh, you have? Okay. So yeah, a ton. Not a ton, but here's the dilemma is they're all self-tapes, right? And I'm pretty good at self-tapes. You can see there's the lights behind me. There's a curtain right above me that comes down, and then I shoot it that way and they're pretty great. And I'm again about trying to be directed. I've asked my agents and my managers and been like, Hey, am I self taping these? Right? And they're like, dude, your self tapes are solid, but even there's no feedback. And I do think back in the day, I got a lot of jobs because I was great in the room. I was probably better in the room than I was as an actor. You could take it. I would get hired because a lot of acting is chemistry, and you want to see that the person you're working with is going to be cool and able to hang and alsoMichael Jamin:Take a note. Can you take a note?Jamie Kaler:It's so funny you say that, dude. So lately I was, for a while I was just putting the one take on where I was like, this is how I see this part. But this one I had the other day, it was so good, dude. It was handsome. Adjacent was the breakdown, which I was like, all right, because I've always been, I'm lumberjack good looks. I'm like, I know I've walked into rooms, I've seen Brad Pitt in a room, and I've been like, yeah, that's beautiful. I'm a little al dente. That guy is so gorgeous. I'm on the cover of a paper towel roll. I get it. I know. I'm Portland. I'm Portland. I'm a Portland 10. Portland. I'm a Portland nine maybe. So it's handsome adjacent, early fifties jerk cop. I go, dude, this should be offer only. Why am I reading for this?Michael Jamin:Right?Jamie Kaler:So I did the first take. I submitted one where I was like, more Tacoma fd, I was. I go, well, maybe that's why I got in here. They know me from that. And then I was going to just submit that one and I said, you know what? Because you can't go in a room, dude, the casting directors are so good that I've had the pleasure to work with Wendy O'Brien who did that one is one of my faves. She'll give you notes that will kind of give you a nuanced performance where you're going, oh, I see the change. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because hard. And so I did a totally separate take. I had a friend over here and I did another take that was so the opposite extreme of he wasn't big at all. He was very underplayed in tone. And when I sent them in, my agent said, he goes really great that you did two separate takes.And I said to him, it's a new show. I've never seen it. I don't know what the tone is. There's no direction. You're literally reading this hoping that your take jives with the guys who are going to hopefully see this tape or not. I don't know. And I also submitted it. The audition came out on Monday. It was due Thursday. I memorized it submitted on Tuesday. The other thing they tell you, they go early, bird gets the worms. So the business has changed so much. You're working really hard to pump these things out, but you're like, is anyone seeing any of it? It would be nice if somebody once just called and was like, Hey man, you're not getting it, but I got to tell you, you did a really good job, man. You what you get in a room or if sometimes you don't, sometimes. Yeah.Michael Jamin:So interesting. The life of an actor. So what is left for you as you wrap up, what is left for you today? What does your day look like today, an average day for you?Jamie Kaler:So we are relaunching the podcast. We have an advertiser that's just come on board. We are currently on Buzzsprout, but we're going to jump to megaphone and we're actually, we're still doing the live ones on Tuesday nights 7:00 PM Pacific Time. It's on right now. It's everywhere. Facebook, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube, it goes out live. We're going to slowly bring that back in and we are jumping to Patreon. So come find us. The parents lounge on Patreon, and then we are, so we're doing all the marketing right now, and then I'm still working with the same guys you work with who have been eyeopening. It's like a master's class in this business of social media about getting people on. Because again, I feel like we have a really solid product that people not onl

Today, we're diving deep into the heart of homeschooling with Kami Harris, a beacon of wisdom and guidance in the homeschooling community. I'm thrilled to have Kami here to share her extraordinary journey with us. From her initial path toward becoming a teacher to making the bold leap into homeschooling, Kami's story is nothing short of inspiring. She embarked on this adventure when she recognized that the traditional education system just wasn't cutting it for her eldest daughter. That realization was the spark that ignited her passion for a more personalized, hands-on approach to education. Over the years, Kami has truly embraced the essence of homeschooling. She didn't just stop at teaching her own kids; she went on to start a homeschooling community in her local area, deeply immersing herself in Leadership Education and Leadership Education Mentoring Institute (LEMI). But what's perhaps most exciting is Kami's latest chapter. As her own children step beyond the homeschooling threshold, Kami is now channeling her vast experience into coaching other parents embarking on their homeschooling journeys. Kami's philosophy is rooted in empowering parents and students alike. She champions agency, choice, and tailoring education to fit each child's individual needs, all underpinned by the principles of leadership education. So, buckle up, listeners, as we explore the depths of homeschooling with Kami Harris, a true mentor and advocate for educational transformation. LINKS Kami's Website - CoachKami.com A Thomas Jefferson Education by Oliver DeMille Leadership Education Mentoring Institute (LEMI) Website - LEMIHomeschool.com   00:00 Introduction and Background of Kami Harris 00:24 Kami's Journey into Homeschooling 01:30 Exploring Different Education Options 02:36 Discovering Leadership Education and LEMI 04:56 The Impact of Mentoring and Community 05:25 The Role of LEMI and Leadership Education 06:13 The Influence of Kathy Mellor 08:59 The Journey of Kami's Children 09:49 The Entrepreneurial Spirit in Homeschooling 11:15 Transitioning to a Coaching Role 11:56 The Power of Agency and Choice in Education 15:51 The Challenges and Rewards of Homeschooling 23:34 The Vision for Kami's Coaching Services 26:46 Conclusion and Gratitude

Join us for a riveting discussion as Tatiana and Heidi sit down with Nate Bothwell, an alumnus of TJYC (now known as Quest) and an accomplished user experience designer (and the designer of the NEW LEMI Website – LEMIHomeschool.com!) In this episode, we delve into Bothwell's educational path, his experience in public speaking, and his successful career in UX Design. Bothwell reminisces about his formative experiences with TJYC, including a memorable tale from a speech competition, showcasing how these early encounters have shaped his professional skill set. He also shares insights into his collaboration with Kathy Mellor, conducting seminars across the United States and creating the ‘Unleashing Your Voice' and ‘Unleashing Your Choice' manuals, which advocate for the cultivation of unique speaking styles. Further exploring his journey into UX design, Bothwell discusses how his background in the LEMI projects, especially Pyramid Project, has been instrumental in understanding client needs and developing effective digital solutions. Additionally, we discuss contemporary challenges such as the impact of AI and social media on society and individual expression, underscoring the significance of embracing one's unique voice and the critical role mentors play in unlocking an individual's potential. LINKS Nate's website – Innate-Consulting.com Animal Farm by George Orwell Kaylie O'Harra's LEMIWorks! Episode New LEMI Website – LEMIHomeschool.com . 00:00 Introduction and Guest Background00:40 Memories from TJYC and Quest01:08 The Art of Public Speaking04:05 Working with Kathy Mellor06:37 The Impact of Homeschooling08:17 The Power of Individuality10:53 The Influence of Social Media11:19 The Role of AI in Society14:08 The Importance of Understanding Different Worldviews30:30 The Impact of LEMI Projects on Career35:47 The Value of Unleashing Your Voice Program37:36 Conclusion

En 2022, la Fédération de football américaine annonçait un accord historique pour l'égalité salariale entre les sélections féminine et masculine. Un coup de force pour les joueuses américaines qui reste encore anecdotique, compte tenu de la situation salariale des femmes au niveau mondial. Car, selon le cabinet d'Audit PriceWaterhouseCooper, le salaire des femmes est inférieur en moyenne de 14% à celui des hommes au sein des pays de l'OCDE. L'étude note, certes des progrès sur les 10 dernières années mais « excessivement faibles ». Principale raison de cet écart, les pauses maternité effectuées par les femmes dans leur carrière. Depuis avril 2023, l'Union européenne impose de nouvelles règles de transparence afin de réduire les écarts de salaires. Au-delà des sanctions aux entreprises, quelles politiques mettre en place ? Comment assurer à travail égal, un salaire égal pour les femmes ?  Cette émission est une rediffusion du 18/09/23 Avec :• Insaff El Hassini, créatrice de la plateforme et du podcast Ma juste valeur, juriste financier et experte en égalité salariale et en négociation de rémunération• Séverine Lemière, économiste à l'IUT Paris Rives de Seine, membre du Réseau MAGE (Marché du travail et Genre). et spécialiste des inégalités entre femmes et hommes sur le marché du travail • Fatime Christiane N'Diaye, spécialiste Genre, Égalité et Diversité pour l'Afrique francophone au bureau de l'OIT (Organisation Internationale du Travail) basé à Dakar.  Programmation musicale : ► All I ever wanted - Asa, Amaarae► Dexam Bua - Helio Batalha, Sonia Sousa.

En 2022, la Fédération de football américaine annonçait un accord historique pour l'égalité salariale entre les sélections féminine et masculine. Un coup de force pour les joueuses américaines qui reste encore anecdotique, compte tenu de la situation salariale des femmes au niveau mondial. Car, selon le cabinet d'Audit PriceWaterhouseCooper, le salaire des femmes est inférieur en moyenne de 14% à celui des hommes au sein des pays de l'OCDE. L'étude note, certes des progrès sur les 10 dernières années mais « excessivement faibles ». Principale raison de cet écart, les pauses maternité effectuées par les femmes dans leur carrière. Depuis avril 2023, l'Union européenne impose de nouvelles règles de transparence afin de réduire les écarts de salaires. Au-delà des sanctions aux entreprises, quelles politiques mettre en place ? Comment assurer à travail égal, un salaire égal pour les femmes ?  Cette émission est une rediffusion du 18/09/23 Avec :• Insaff El Hassini, créatrice de la plateforme et du podcast Ma juste valeur, juriste financier et experte en égalité salariale et en négociation de rémunération• Séverine Lemière, économiste à l'IUT Paris Rives de Seine, membre du Réseau MAGE (Marché du travail et Genre). et spécialiste des inégalités entre femmes et hommes sur le marché du travail • Fatime Christiane N'Diaye, spécialiste Genre, Égalité et Diversité pour l'Afrique francophone au bureau de l'OIT (Organisation Internationale du Travail) basé à Dakar.  Programmation musicale : ► All I ever wanted - Asa, Amaarae► Dexam Bua - Helio Batalha, Sonia Sousa.

One of the foundational principles of Leadership Education is that we all have missions, or callings, in our life. It is a principle that is embedded in each of LEMI's projects. Aaron Glancy is an amazing young man who caught this vision. He fell in love with the Founding Fathers and found Patrick Henry to be VERY impactful. We talked about several of the projects, but Aaron has a special message for QUEST mentors! Be sure to check this out! This is an amazing episode! LINKS 8th Habit by Stephen Covey Moral Molecule by Paul Zak Builders – a poem by Longfellow The Gap and the Gain by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy

• Meleklerin vazifeleri nelerdir? • Seyyar meleklerin yeryüzünde teveccüh ettikleri yer. • Melekler insanın yaratılışını nasıl karşıladılar? • Cenab-ı Hakk'ın insana melekten daha çok değer vermesi. • Meleklerin girip girmeyeceği yerler, hoşlandığı veya hoşlanmadığı şeyler nelerdir? • İnsanın teheccüd namazıyla meleklerle muhatap olması. • Cihad yolunda gidenlere meleklerin yardımı ve Bedir'e katılmalarının ayrıcalığı. • Ölüm meleklerinin mümin ve kafire muameleleri. • Mümin yeryüzünde nasıl muvazene unsurudur? • Zamanımıza kadar 124 bin peygamber geldiğine göre Konfiçyüs ve Buda gibi kimseler peygamber olabilirler mi?

LEMI has been around long enough that we have many graduates who are moving forward and living their mission. And it isn't limited to just the kids! Parents are “graduating” too! Cassie Dixon's youngest son graduated and she decided to take what she learned in LEMI and her community and bring it to her community by becoming a high school English teacher. If Cassie's last name sound familiar, we interviewed her son Aaron several months ago. It was so much fun talking to him and to hear the other side is very enlightening! Be sure to check out his episode too! If you are interested in Family Foundations, Quest, Pyramid, Junior programs, or the LEMI writing philosophy, this is a great one to listen to! We also talk quite a bit about community. Enjoy! LINKS Aaron Dixon LEMIWorks! Episode In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction by Gabor Mate, MD 7 Habits of Happy Kids by Sean Covey The 7 Habits of Happy Kids Series by Sean Covey Alas, Babylon by Pat Frank The Chosen by Chaim Potok The Crucible by Arthur Miller Friday Night Lights by H.G. Bissinger The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business by Neil Postman LEMIWorks! Episode – Writing Classic Call #1 LEMIWorks! Episode – Writing Classic Call #2 LEMIWorks! Episode – Seasons

• Ayetler ve hadisler ışığında melekler ve vazifeleri. • Melek ve şeytan dünyevi işlerde nereye kadar müdahale edebilir? • Ayetlerle hesap gününe ait enteresan tablolar. • Hak hesabına kurulan meclislere meleklerin ve Allah'ın (cc) bakış açısı buna dair misaller. • Cuma günü salat-ü selam getirmenin ehemmiyeti.

• Gayba maneviyata inanmanın gerekliliği. • Görünen âlemle görünmeyen âlemlerin farkı. • Meleklerin vasıfları ve Allah'a (cc) karşı yakınlıkları. • Meleklerin insanla münasebetleri ve muhafazası. • Meleklere inanma ve yakinen onları hissetme. • Efendimiz'in (sallallâhu aleyhi ve sellem) arz ve semadaki vezirleri kimlerdir? • Meleklerde vazife, Rabb'e karşı ubudiyetleri. • Cennet ve Cehennem; Hâzin meleklerin durumları. • İnanan insanın imanında ve hayatında hasbi olması nelere bağlıdır ve vazifesi nedir? • Asım bin Ebi Ehvel'in hasbiliği. • Bedir'e çıkış ve sahabenin hasbiliği, Sa'd b. Muaz'ın (ra) hitabı. • Hasbilikte itaat ve nasıl olunması gerektiği.

Betyar 0:4 | Loše tursko pivo 100:94 | Teletina kod Nemca 101:56 | Gyros 92:87 (OT) | Slanina (dimljena) 3:1 | Limenka (zgažena) 61:105 | PATLIDŽAN ŠAMPINJON!!! Sinalco matine, za mikrofonima: Gazza, Gogec, Lemi, crk Trajanje: 125 minuta ---------------------------------- Pokrenuli smo PATREON, pa ko želi sada može da časti za neko pivo, dodatne sadržaje i/ili tehničke popravke na podcastu: www.patreon.com/pfchisterical A ima i opcija za direktne donacije: paypal.me/partizanhisterical ---------------------------------- HISTI RADIO MIX br. 82 www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw…JFJtXQA_Z14lfaJQx Twitter: www.twitter.com/pfchisterical Instagram: www.instagram.com/pfchisterical/ Youtube: www.youtube.com/c/PartizanHistericalPodcast podcast.rs/show/histerical/ NAPRED PARTIZAN! NAPOMENA: Ovo je "uradi sam" podkast u kome navijači Partizana razgovaraju o zbivanjima u svom voljenom klubu. Izneta mišljenja i stavovi su lični, kafanski, i ne predstavljaju stavove bilo koje navijačke grupe, frakcije, dela uprave, radne ili druge organizacije. Nismo insajderi, eksperti, sportski radnici. Apsolutna vernost, ne apsolutna istina. Trudimo se da jezik koji koristimo bude fin književni - možete ga čuti na svakom stadionu i u svakoj sportskoj hali. Cover foto: KK Partizan Majstor zvuka: crk Realizacija: Slavko Tatić, zvuk poluprofi, novovalni Riječani & Histi

This week's episode is another amazing graduate interview, this time with Andrew Read! Andrew was one of Tatiana's scholars when she mentored Shakespeare while she was in college. Andrew gained a strong sense of patriotism and the love of history and the English language through his experiences in the LEMI projects, but more than that, he made deeper connections. Check out this week's episode to learn more! LINKS The Moral Molecule by Paul Zak The Great Conversation by Mortimer Adler

• Ruhlarla irtibat kurma, cinlerle uğraşma vs gibi mevzularla iştigal etmenin önemi var mı? • Temsil âlemine dair Kitap ve Sünnetten deliller. • Bakara ve Al-i İmran surelerinin temsil âlemine bakan yönü. • İşlenen her günahta küfre giden bir yol vardır. • "Cenab-ı Hakk'ın iclalinden korkmak" ne demektir? • Allah korkusundan titreyen bir kalbe sahip olmak ve bu haşyetle yaşamak. • Allah'a karşı en saygılı olanlar Allah'ı (cc) hakkıyla bilenlerdir. • Meleğin beşer ile sıkı münasebeti. • Allah'a giden yollar bütünüyle açıktır. • Allah yolunda sarf edilen hiçbir gayret boşa gitmeyecektir. • Hz. Ebu Bekir'e (ra) büyük müjde. • Meleklerin eliyle gömülmeye hak kazanan sahabi Amir ibni Fuheyr.

• Berzah âlemi ile bu âlem arasındaki sıkı alâka. • Habis ruhların insanlar üzerindeki etkisi. • "Sözü kalbe dinletme" sözünden ne anlamalıyız? • "Ruh çağırma" habis ruhların veya cinlerin bir ameliyesidir. • Maddî-manevî problemler karşısında müminin tavrı nasıl olmalıdır? • Allah'a (cc) kul olma dışında bütün maksatlara sırt çevirmek. • Kadere rıza göstermek, zorluklar karşısında sabır kadem olmak. • Muvakkat yıkılışlar karşısında ruh bütünlüğünü muhafaza etme kararlılığı. • Allah hakkında ümitsizliğe düşmemek. • Dünya hayatı ile ahiret hayatı arasındaki sıkı bağlantı. • İç-dış münasebetinde hassas olunmalı mı? • Hz. Peygamber'in ahirete iritihalinden sonra Ashab-ı kiram'ın O'nu (sallallâhu aleyhi ve sellem) rüyada görmeleri.

Michelle is not just an experienced homeschooler but also a dedicated LEMI (Leadership Education Mentoring Institute) trainer who possesses a wealth of knowledge and insights to offer. Over the years, she has served as a mentor for numerous projects and plays a pivotal role as a trainer for Quest 3, a program that takes educational excellence to the next level. One of the remarkable aspects of Michelle's expertise is her ability to connect the dots between different projects within the LEMI curriculum. She demonstrates how Quest 3 seamlessly builds upon the foundational concepts introduced in projects like Pyramid and Georgics. Michelle emphasizes the significance of creating the culture of commonwealths and shares ideas on how to incorporate principles. This culture promotes collaboration, shared values, and a sense of belonging, ultimately creating environments where personal and intellectual growth can flourish. Be sure and check out this episode of LEMIWorks! LINKS The Great Conversation by Mortimer Adler Where the Red Fern Grows by Wilson Rawls Much Ado About Mad Libs by DW McCann Mathematicians are People, Too by Dale Seymour

• İnsanlığın boğulduğu maddi kıstaslardan sıyrılıp, vahyî kıstaslara bel bağlaması kurtuluşunun habercisidir. • Ruh çağırma mevzuu nasıl anlaşılmalıdır? • Görmediğine inanmama, ruhaniyete dair mevzuları inkar mümkün mü? • Ervah-ı habisenin bazı hastalıklara sebep olması mümkün müdür? • İyi ruhlar iyilerle kötü ruhlar da kötülerle uğraşırlar. • Her devirde insanlar kendi ruh haletlerine göre bazı haller müşahede edebilirler. • İslâmi fetihlerde asıl maksat ne idi? • Rüyay-ı sadıkalar insanlara bazı şeyleri ilham edebilir. • Bitmez tükenmez ihtiyaçlar karşısında insanın durumu.

Have you ever wondered what it truly means to be “liber”? With Leadership Education and LEMI, we're passionate about exploring the concept of “liber” education. So, let me ask you this: How deeply have you dived into your educational journey? And more importantly, why do you aspire to invest in your education to attain that “liber” level? In this Classic Call Tiffany Earl and Aneladee Milne unravel the various layers of liber education and guide you in discovering where you stand on this transformative path! You don't want to miss this amazing episode! Be sure to be ready to take notes!

Ruhların mevcudiyeti hakkında bazı kimselerden müşahhas misaller ile hissi kablel vuku (bir şeyi önceden sezme) hakkında. • Fizik ve tabiat, fizikötesi bir kuvvetin tesirindedir. • İnsanlar fizik ötesini bilebilir mi? • Mi'rac hadisesi, madde ile izah edilemez. • İşleri gören hep duyu organları mıdır? • Ruh, bedenden ayrılıp dolaşabilir mi? • Hadiseler olmadan önce hissedilebilir mi? • Gelecekten verilen haberlerden misaller. • Gelecekten haber vermek mümkün müdür? • Her şeyin anahtarı Allah'ın elindedir. • Allah yoluna girenlerin melekler dahi arkasında koşacaktır. • Üseyd b. Hudayr'ın (ra) Kur'an okuyuşuna meleklerin gelmesi. • Savaşa cünüpken koşan Hanzala'nın (ra) cenazesini meleklerin yıkaması.

• Melaike-i Kiram ve ruhanilerin mevcudiyetine inanmanın ehemmiyeti. • Melekler vefat ederler mi? • Melek ve ruh âlemlerine inanmanın, insana kazandırdığı faydalar. • Meleklerin dünyadaki değişikliklerde tesirleri olur mu? • Peygamberlerin, meleklerle ve ruhaniyatın mevcudiyetini ispat. • Medyumların verdiği haberler. • Batılı ilim adamlarının tecrübeleri. • Vefat eden insanın ruhu ne olur? • Ruhun varlığı laboratuvarda tespit edilebilir mi? • Ruhların fotoğrafı çekilebilir mi? • İnsanlar melekleri görebilirler mi? • İnsan, hak ve hakikate teveccühü nispetinde teveccüh görecektir. • Sa'd b. Muaz'ın (ra) vefatında arzın sallanıp, cenazede meleklerin hazır bulunmaları. • Mus'ab b. Umeyr'in (ra) vefatı üzerine, bir meleğin onun yerine savaşması.

Meet Kaylie O'Harra, a dynamic and inspiring woman whose journey from rodeo queen to successful entrepreneur and loving mom has been shaped by the transformative power of her LEMI education. Kaylie's love for classic literature has guided her path, offering wisdom on love, resilience, and human nature. Her story underscores the importance of community and mentors in achieving success. LEMI education has been the catalyst for her growth, providing a platform to explore her passions and apply timeless principles to her life, business, and motherhood. Kaylie's remarkable journey reminds us that with the right support and a hunger for knowledge, we can create a positive impact on the world, all while celebrating the enduring value of classic literature. LINKS The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom Little Britches by Ralph Moody The Phantom Tollbooth by Norton Juster Understanding the Times by David Noebel The Virginian by Owen Wister

• Her şey aklın terkib ve tahlilinden ibaret değildir. • Mümin fizikötesi hadiselere göre hayatına istikamet verebilir mi? • İnsan etrafında olup bitenleri nasıl değerlendirmelidir? • Melekleri inkârın neticeleri nelerdir? • Meleklerin varlığının ispat edilmesi. • Kur'an-ı Kerim'in 100 ayetinin haber vermesi. • İlim adamlarının medyumların vs müşahedeleri. • Ruhun misallerle ispatı. • Temessülat âlemi nedir? • Uzaktan kumanda ile tedavi mümkün müdür? • Allah'ın inayeti her şeyi kazandırabilir. • Kendinden geçme ve kendini aşma nasıl olur? • Allah'ın (cc) rızası tüm işlerin anahtarıdır. • Razı oldukları Allah, melekleri yardıma gönderir. • Bedir savaşında meleklerin yardımı.

• Ahirete inanan insanın diğer insanlardan farkı ne olmalıdır? • Madde ötesine ve meleklere inanmanın önemi. • Meleklerin dereceleri. • Meleklerle insanların mukayesesi. • Meleklerin kulluğu mu, yoksa insanların kulluğu mu üstündür? • İnsanlar melekleri görüp bilebilirler mi? • Meleklerin özellikleri nelerdir? • Meleklerin insana faydası olabilir mi? • İnsanın her yaptığı melekler tarafından yazılıp tespit edilmektedir. • Her meseleye kendi yoluyla gidilir. • Her meselede bazı temel şartlar vardır ki onlar sız hiç bir iş halledilemez. • Dupduru bir gönülle Cenab-ı Hakk'a teveccüh. • Bunların ötesinde Allah'ın (cc) yardımı. • Allah melekleri insanlara yardımcı olarak gönderir.

I had a hard time figuring out what to name this episode. Kerrie is a good friend of mine. She “graduated” many years ago. I've been blessed to watch her take Leadership Education and everything she learned with LEMI and share it with so many people and build on it! She was instrumental in starting and leading our Liber Community and went through training for many LEMI projects. So often we are led to Leadership Education and our commonwealth communities for our kids and their education and it leads YOU to your mission. Be sure to listen to the very end where we talk about the Love of Learner program that Kerrie put together! BOOKS Framework of Poverty – https://www.amazon.com/Framework-Understanding-Poverty-4th/dp/1929229488 The Seventh Sense – https://www.amazon.com/The-Seventh-Sense-audiobook/dp/B01D57KIBK/ref

Forms. We talk about them a lot in LEMI. It is definitely a topic that we can go over and over and learn more each time. In this Classic Call, Tiffany Earl shares how to see forms more clearly, know what forms are, and how to understand the behind the scenes belief so you can promote and build the right forms. Tatiana (as her younger self) also makes an appearance! Here are a few things that you might find interesting in this episode: The importance of introducing forms in Core Phase The four types of forms of C.S. Lewis The five categories of forms Judging Forms AND an assignment! NOTE: TJYC was renamed Quest LINKS E Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber The Student Whisperer by Oliver DeMille and Tiffany Earl Surprised by Joy by C.S. Lewis “The Great (and Continuing) Economic Debate of the 20th Century,” by Steve Forbes, Imprimis, March 2006

Vision, Mission, Mentors, Classics. Want to hear about how they can impact a student? Sterling Nielsen is currently in college and he took an hour out of his busy schedule to share about how his the education he received via the LEMI projects impacted, not just his college, but the trajectory of his life. We talked with Sterling about the classics that he connected with the most. We also chatted about mentors. What are the important characteristics that mentors need to really engage with their scholars. This is one of those webinar episodes you just HAVE to listen to! LINKS Les Miserables – Victor Hugo The Alchemist – Paulo Coelho Bridge to Terabithia – Katherine Paterson and Donna Diamond Mathematicians are People Too – Dale Seymour Publications

On this week's episode, I discuss the differences between writing for TV versus film and the differences in the development phases. We also go into ways to create your own material and what to really focus on. Tune in for much more!Show NotesFree Writing Webinar - https://michaeljamin.com/op/webinar-registration/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAutogenerated TranscriptMichael Jamin:If you write something great, the actors will come out of the word work to be in it, and you don't even have to pay 'em because they're getting footage and they're also being involved in something that could be really great and could blow up and could make their careers. But if the script's no good, you're going to have to beg 'em to do it because what's in it for them other than bad footage that they can't use? It'sListening to Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin.Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back to another episode of Screenwriters. Need to Hear this. I'm here with Phil Hudson again. Hello, Phil.Phil Hudson:Hey everybody. Good to be back.Michael Jamin:Hello, everybody. Today we're going to talk about something, well, something I think is very important. How about that? The question is, should you write for film or tv? I think a lot of people, at least from social media when they leave comments, I think a lot of people really aspire to be film writers because they have their story and maybe they think it's more prestigious. Maybe they like the idea of going to walking down a red carpet and seeing their work on a large screen. And so I just thought I talked to you about my feelings about film versus TV and why I greatly prefer working in television. And I think anybody who works in film is crazy. So it's not that they're crazy, but it's just like, wow. I see a lot of advantages for working in film. And to be clear, I am a TV writer, but I have sold a couple of movies and after selling those movies I was like, I don't want to do that again. I'd rather work in television, but I definitely see the appeal that people have. So I thought I may shed a little light on what my perspective is. That sounds good with you, Phil.Phil Hudson:I think this is an exciting topic and we were just talking before we started recording, the industry's changed even since I started studying this craft. Seriously, back then there was a viable feature market and it seems like it's gone the wayside, and I've seen the transition over the last decade with filmmakers and screenwriters coming into tv. I think because the money's better, there's more work, there's more creative freedom, and I'm sure you'll talk about it, but there's that saying of the director runs the film set and the writer runs the TV set.Michael Jamin:Yeah, if you want creative control, we have lots to talk about, but if it's creative control that you want, then you want to be in TV because the writer's in charge. If you want to be in charge in a film, then the director's in charge. Often the writer's not even invited to set. The writer has no say that will be rewritten. The director might hire multiple writers to rewrite. So if you think if it's about your vision, unless you are shooting yourself, forget it. You are really an afterthought. And like you said, they are making far fewer movies now than they were even 15, 20 years ago, probably a third as many. And when you look at the titles being released, you got a lot of remakes. You got a lot of sequels, you got a lot of reboots. Yeah, I mean, so they're makingPhil Hudson:Another, it's largely IP based material too. So it's other books that have blown up and they buy the rights to that. They then make that.Michael Jamin:So it is because they're easier to market, which is why you have Fast and The Furious 13, everyone knows that and it's why you have it, Indiana Jones five, because everyone knows it's just easier to market. And even Barbie, I don't know if it's Greta Go's Dream to make, when she was approached to write Barbie, she's probably Barbie, do I have to Barbie? What about my original idea? So obviously she wrote the Barbie movie and turned it into something very unique and special. But I can't imagine as a child, she grew up thinking, I want to write a movie about Barbie. They came to her with an offer and she turned into something unique and creative, but I don't think she came, maybe I shouldn't speak, but I can't imagine she brought the Barbie idea to them. I think they had to move the ip and yeah,Phil Hudson:I'm certain that's the case, but even then because of the success of Barbie, now Mattel is talking about creating their own cinematic universe,Michael Jamin:Right? Right. So get ready for more gi whatever it is. I don't know. Is that your dream? Now, indie filmmaking, by the way, is a completely different topic. Maybe we can brush on it a little. My area of expertise is definitely not independent filmmaking, but that's a whole different,Phil Hudson:But that's what I went to film school for and that's the Sundance world that I kind of been in. So I'm familiar with that. And there's a bit of a merge there. And we can talk about tko. Waititi is a really great example of that because he came out of the indie film world. He was a Sundance kid, and then he started doing more prolific stuff. And while I was touring for quasi handling social media for the broken lizard guys, that's one of the conversations we had with their, one of the Searchlight VPs of publicity. And she was like, yeah, Tika, he does one for us, we do one for him. You do Thor, you want to do Thor? Awesome. We'll make invisible Hitler. And it's a way for them to incentivize. But I would say Clin Eastwood, I would say even look at Christopher Nolan, that's the way it works. You get this deal at these big studios, I'll make your billion dollar film, and then they let you make the film you want to make, and one is going to make a ton of money, may win some awards, the other one's going to win some awards because they have the talent.Michael Jamin:So if it's your aspiration for me, just the thought of working film, you go, okay, I'll write a film and maybe I can sell it. But then, okay, then how many times are you going to sell a, it is hard to sustain that career. Whereas in television, oh, I know there's a TV show and maybe they have whatever, 10 or 13 episodes a season that sounds like you can make a living that sounds like you're working more steadily. And when I broke in, by the way, it's 22 episodes, so I was like, oh, okay, these people work all the time. And for 10 seasons, that sounds to me that was the lure of a steady paycheck was in television, maybe less so today, but certainly more so than being a filmmaker.Phil Hudson:Yeah, that's fascinating. One thing that's standing out to me from this conversation really just echoes what you've been saying throughout the history of the podcast, and we're approaching two years of this podcast, and that is you have to get out and do it yourself. Nobody's going to do it for you. You can't rely on anybody else. You have to get up and do it. And even the gre Gerwig, the Tiger Boy, tee Tees, they had a name for themselves as filmmakers before the big studio came with the big bag of money. They were the value, and that's where they came to take advantage of them, right? Yeah. Greta Gerwig has the way to make her film stand out in her way and her style, and that's why it's a big hit. I don't think it's largely because it's Barbie, it's because of what she did with Barbie that made it work. But that's something she has honed and developed over years and years and years of hard work before she hit it big.Michael Jamin:And also my friend Chrissy Stratton, who I'm going to have back on the podcast at some point, we had her run before. So I met her on King of the Hill. She's a writer on King of the Hill. But then she went on to a very long career, almost as long as mine, working in various TV shows. She might be just one or two years behind me, pretty much equal. And she works all the time in tv, but she had this film that she's been dreaming about for whatever, 10 or 15 years and then decided, you know what? I'm just going to make a short. And so on her own dime. And she raised the money. She's a successful TV writer, but in film, she's the no one. So she started from scratch and she called in a lot of favors and shot a movie on by raising her own money, real low budget.And we'll talk more about this journey and why she's doing it, but it's not like, even though she's big in tv, she's a no one in film. So it's kind of a level playing field. And one of the thing, well, I know I'm jumping around, but I just so you're aware, as I mentioned about creative control in film, well, lemme tell you about the experiences that I went through. So my writing partner and I, we wrote a writing sample, a feature sample. I was dreaming it was going to get sold, but he was like, it's not going to get sold, whatever. But I was like, maybe it will. We wrote a sample, our agent shopped it around, no one bought it as predicted, but there was a producer who was very interested in working. He's like, this is great. We can't it, but let's try coming up with some ideas together and sell those.And so we worked with this producer and we wound up selling two more ideas, but every step of the way, it was kind of exhausting. We're coming up with ideas, we're writing drafts, we're giving it to him. He's got notes we're not getting, and you're doing, it's called free revisions. You're doing notes after notes. We sold it to the studio, but the producer is basically the gate. So until the producer's happy with the draft, the studio will never see it. And so this is what free revisions is. So you're doing constant rewrites for the producer.Phil Hudson:This is a big deal for the W G A, by the way. It's a very big deal. It's part of the strike too.Michael Jamin:Yeah. I don't know what's going to obviously happen with it. And you're doing a lot of free work, which you're not getting paid obviously, and the studio's not seeing any of it. And then you get finally the producer's happy, you give it to the studio and then the studio has notes and then, okay, now you're again. So they say, do a revision. And again, you go back, you start doing the revision, you've turned into the producer and the producer's like, eh, I don't think it's good enough fellas. I need to do more work and more work. And then finally you turn that revision to the studio. I was at one point producer who I liked quite a bit, really good guy, but he also had development people working under him. So at one point his development person left, he brought in a new one, and now this new person has a new direction that we're going, oh my God.It was like, this is a never ending hell. That's how I felt. It's just a never ending hell because you have to please them. And I understand this is how the game is played, but I was like in tv, it doesn't work this way in tv, if I'm a writer on staff, I turn in my draft to the showrunner. If I'm not the showrunner, the showrunner has notes, great. Turn in another draft, we're done. Shoot, we're going to shoot it. And of course the network will have notes, but it's so much more streamlined because you have a timetable, we have to shoot this thing on Friday, so you can't keep this up in development hell for a year, which is what happens if you're doing film. You could be in hell forever on this. I was like, work done. And that'sPhil Hudson:The term too. It's development health, what you said. That's an industry term for what that is.Michael Jamin:And the money, in terms of the money, I got paid way more in TV than I do in film. SoPhil Hudson:That's what I was about to say. I just said, we talked about the podcast, that experience I had where that guy signed the script, signed the contract to write a script for that thing, and it kind of fizzled out, but the numbers on it were, it's like $160,000 to write a screenplay. Well, the average I understand is about six months to go through the whole process to write a script more than that. But then you have the notes and you have the feedback and you got all that stuff. So you're going to do one, maybe two of those a year. Well, you can go get an M B A and then go get a six figure paycheck that's going to pay you more than that. AndMichael Jamin:Just so you know, the movie's not getting made and it has nothing to do with you or it's just like it's a miracle movies. It's a miracle when a movie gets made. So if you want to see your work on the screen, even if it's been rewritten to death, forget it. Most movies just do not get made. So you're okay, but you used to make a good living writing movies that never got made. Maybe it's less so now because they're making because they're buying fewer. But back in the day, you could be a very successful screenwriter and never have a word of yours onscreen. But in TV it's different.Phil Hudson:One question that comes to mind for me, Michael, when you talk about free revisions and development, hell, you also advocate that writers write and they write for free. And if you don't want to write for free, don't do this because that's what this job looks like.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Phil Hudson:Right. What's the difference between the experience with the free revisions and the notes with the producer versus your definition of free writing?Michael Jamin:I mean, we're talking about two things. We're talking about improving your craft to write, to learn how to write. And so a lot of people just write one script and they think, well, I'm going to sell it and I'm done. Give me a paycheck. And my point is then you put it down and write another one and then write another one. And you'll notice that script number five is vastly better than script number one simply because you're getting better at writing. But the free revisions I'm talking about for these producers, when you become a professional at some point, I got to take home money. This is not a hobby for me. This is how I make my living. So I just didn't enjoy the process. I just thought like, ugh, it is no fun. It takes the joy out of it.Phil Hudson:Yeah, no kidding. So we have to write. We have to write. That's part of writing. Being a writer is writing. But what the WGA is fighting for is that writers should be paid for all of the professional rioting where other people are making money off of the sweat of their back. They're taking advantage of that situation because a bit of a power dynamic there where the producer has control and obviously they want to maintain their relationship and they want to make it as good as they can be. So I'm not saying it's a negative or a nefarious approach to it, but it's still a writers are sitting there not getting paid.Michael Jamin:I understand the producers are protecting their brand and they have a closer relationship with the studio. I get it. But they're not the ones doing all that work for free. So I just like, this is not appealing to me. I'd much rather work in television. Like I said, you have more creative control. You're onset. And again, in features, what would've happened had these two features of ours been made. It didn't come to this and I didn't expect it to, but we sold two features and at both times we're finally done. We give both final drafts to the studio. The studio is happy with it. The studio executive were working with happy. They'd given all our notes and revisions. They were very happy with the script. Now they give it to their boss who has the green light, they have the power to green light. And the boss reads it over the weekend, not interested.It was like, it's over. It's it. It was almost on a whim. Nah, what else you got? And it's like there's no argument. There's no more convincing them, it's dead because they just don't want to make that movie. And often they don't want to make that movie simply because the movie that did well that weekend was an action movie and your movie's a comedy and they want to make more action movies now, or it's as simple as that. Or someone put out a comedy movie that weekend that bombed and forget it. We're not doing comedies anymore. And so it could have nothing to do with the quality of what you wrote. This is what the marketplace suddenly changed and now it's dead. So this is how it is.Unless you are making your own movie. And if you make your own movie, that's great, but do it on a dime. On a dime. I say I had a nice conversation with someone, someone asked me to, it was a couple of days ago, they wanted to book some time with me for a consultation, which I occasionally do. And he really nice guy, but he had self-financed some projects and I was like, you spent too much money on that. Don't put so much money into your own projects in the beginning until you really get spend a couple thousand. That's what you can do it on. That's what I recommend.Phil Hudson:And in the indie film side of things, the goal is to not spend your money. It is actually to find investors. And the question is, why would people invest in an indie film maker who's made no money? A lot of people are looking for tax write-offs and they want to be involved in Hollywood. They want to feel like they are producing being part of that because they probably have that desire, that dream, and they chased the paycheck rather than their art. And so now that they've got the money, they would rather invest in another artist to be a part of that. And so my friend's dad is just this awesome guy, and he just texted me out of the blue two years ago and he had a bunch of stocks vest and he cashed out and he was like, Hey man, if you ever have something you want to make, let me know. I've got some cash lying around. I'd love to put towards that.Michael Jamin:Oh wow.Phil Hudson:But that comes out of a relationship of trust that I have with the guy. It alsoMichael Jamin:Is, and it might come with strings attached. It mayPhil Hudson:Be, and it probably will,Michael Jamin:It may be, and this is not how it works in TV and tv. So in film you might have a ton of executive producers because they help chip in for 5,000 bucks. You can become an executive producer of my movie. People do that and TV doesn't work that way. Tv, that's all financed by the studio. So it's not that kind of model. But in film, you write a check for 5,000, or if you write a bigger check for 50,000 and the person says, I'll give you 50,000 if you cast my daughter as the lead, or if you make these changes to the script, do you want to do it or not? That's up to you. How much do you want that money?Phil Hudson:I think that's really where the question of art versus craft comes into play, because in that situation it might be a little bit more art, it might be a little bit more of your decision. Well, that's going to ruin my vision for what I have or destroy the theme of this piece, and I'm doing it myself because it is an expression of myself, and that is art. And you might turn down the money out of integrity for the art there, but you might also take the paycheck because you've got kids who need diapers,Michael Jamin:Right? And so some people, sometimes people are very naive about the whole thing and they're like, you writers suck, or This is the garbage. Do you know how hard it's to get something made? And do you understand that I also need to make money?Phil Hudson:Oh man, we do the webinars every month and we do, we started to do this v i p q and A after, and we were testing it out, but we had a member of your group she joined and she was telling us about how she has made two or three indie films and she had put up this money and she was going to shoot it in the forest. And the film, the films that got shut down because of wildcat or a cougar, like a mountain lion or something, came in and ruined the whole thing. None of the actors want to come back. And she knew this was a thing that could happen. And so she was asking the question about hobbling together, her footage to make something producible. And it's just heartbreaking because a good story, you can't really do that. The story should mean something.And that's someone who's in there doing it. I think they're doing it on their own dime, and that's just heartbreaking to hear. But I've got other experience where my buddy Rich, he's produced a bunch of any stuff. He's done stuff with Michael Madson, done some stuff with major players, knows a bunch of people, and he was telling me about this film that he was working on for years and years and years. And they shot the whole film and then it got locked down in post because one of the executive producers who wrote the check wouldn't sign off on the final cut. And so it could getMichael Jamin:Final cutPhil Hudson:And it got stuck and they were arguments and they had to work through and it was like five years. And the end result they got out of it was a worst film because the producer had too much say and wanted edits. So understanding story structure, you look at it, it is a hobbled together piece of crap that has a couple big names in it,Michael Jamin:Right? Yeah. I don't even think you need, well, I don't want to talk about big names, but, and I felt bad for this woman in the v I b talk. But here's the thing, I also think you need to figure, be cautious on how producible is this movie you want to make. You didn't have to do a movie, write a movie that take place in the mountains. You could have written a movie that takes place in someone's apartment, and if you think I'm nuts, go watch the whale, which takes place in someone's crappy apartment and was amazing and beautiful because their writing was beautiful and the acting matched it, but the set was ugly. And anyone could have shot that in their own apartment. And that's on you as the writer is like, you don't have to write a movie. I would be cautious about writing anything with kids, because kids are really hard to have on set first of legally. You need to have tutors, you want to bend the rules. Kids can only work a certain amount of hours. And what you do on your independent film, that's your business, but to be up and up, that's the truth. And kids, they get tired, they lose focus, and they want to horse around. So I would be careful about having kids. I'd be careful about doing anything that requires characters getting wet because costume changes are bitch, when you're wet and at exterior locations, the same thing. Back noise, street noise, people being disruptive, a leaf blower.But you can write something very compelling in a controlled set where you don't have to worry about any of this stuff as long as the writing is good. It's all about the writing.Hey, it's Michael Jamin. If you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not going to spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.Phil Hudson:I'm having a flashback. So my thesis film that I did, I took a crew, we rented a van, we took our equipment, we drove to Utah, negotiated all these things because of relationships. I had to get it cheap, shooting in friends' houses, borrowing a friend's truck, doing all of these things. Flew in a couple of indie actors from LA to be in my project. And while we were going through, you just start getting hit with every single thing you have planned, start shifting based off of, there's cloud cover now because you're outside, it's starting to snow. Lots of beautiful things happen. Like we're shooting on a pump jack, which an oil deck, an oil derrick is, what you think about 'em is pump jacks that big swinging arm pump. It's a training school that agreed to let us shoot on theirs that was donated. And there's moving in the background, makes the production value go through the roof, what we had.But then at the same time, while we're driving, a deer jumps out and my friend's truck when my actor's driving hits the deer, and then we're driving the next day to go to the set to shoot the exteriors. And we need that truck. And then it blows part of the engine and we can't use the truck anymore. And I'm rewriting on the fly and my friend's daughter is casting this role using their house, and she's just this sweet little girl and she has two lines and she gets stage fright and she can't do it. And so we have to put her sister in who's too young. And so I have to scrap those lines and rethink how do I get this emotional moment across? And then at the end, when we're done filming, the little girl comes up and says, I'm ready now.Michael Jamin:Yeah, great.Phil Hudson:And they're heartbreaking. Heartbreaking because we're done.Michael Jamin:And that said, whatever, I would take inventory if you decide to do this Indio thing, because as a way of getting discovered, as a way of breaking in, which is great. I would just take inventory of what you have that's in your control. If you're a truck driver and you have a Mack truck, alright, maybe you're shooting the truck. I mean, that's an interesting set.Phil Hudson:Well, it's your life that ties in the right what you know, you can add reality veracity to that.Michael Jamin:If you have a storage locker, the same thing. If you're allowed to shoot there, you're probably not. But what little you have could be interesting. You don't think it's interesting because it's your life, but we think it's interesting. We don't live your life.Phil Hudson:While you were talking, I was just thinking of Robert Rodriguez, who's arguably one of the biggest directors on the planet. And he came from this in world where he did on mariachi. He documents all of this in a great book, the Rebel Without a Crew. And he donated his body to science to fund it. And he went to the small town in Mexico. He went in for clinical trials for a, to get the money, borrowed a camera that didn't have audio. Went to a town in Mexico where he would summer, borrowed friends and family and a best friend to play the roles, did the whole thing. And then stayed up at night in an editing bay at a local TV station to edit his film and did it and blew up because he thought, and all he wanted to do was to sell it to a Spanish language channel and ended up selling it to Sony or whoever, Sony Columbia or something.Michael Jamin:And now you can make it for a fraction. You could edit it all on your laptop, you canPhil Hudson:Edit it on your phone. You shoot the whole thing on yourMichael Jamin:Phone.Phil Hudson:But the story was good. Why did it sell? Why was it a big deal? It's because he knew how to tell a compelling story, and he just used what he had to do thatMichael Jamin:Job. So we're in agreement here. If you want to do an indie film, great. Just don't spend a lot of money. Also, you don't have, if you write something great, the actors will come out of the word work to be in it, and you don't even have to pay 'em because they're getting footage and they're also being involved in something that could be really great and could blow up and could make their careers. But if the script's no good, you're going to have to beg 'em to do it, because what's in it for them other than bad footage that they can't use?Phil Hudson:I dove headfirst into this stuff when I was first starting, and I would write a script, do one version of it, one draft, and then I would shoot it, do a casting call. People would show up, they'd want to be in it. We'd be on set. And they'd very quickly realized I had no idea what I was doing and I didn't, but I just had the gumption to make it happen. And I remember my lead calling me out one time or shooting this shot, and he's like, dude, what are you doing? We're here. You're not even using light to help add subtext and value. And he's talking about how when you're walking up the stairs, well, if you shot it this way through here, there's a cage and a shadow being cast on my face and emotionally, my character's going through this inner turmoil with his relationship and there's all this.And I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about, because I had no clue. And I wasted time and energy and money doing it, and I was a valuable learning experience for me, and I got that lesson out of it. So yeah, your point, do it as cheap as you can because learning, you're just learning. And that is the school of hard knocks, not the school of theory and philosophy. It's get it done. You're going to learn. You're going to make a lot of mistakes. You're not going to sell the first thing. It's probably not going to win any awards. And if you do, awesome, you did it now, but you're most likely not. And that's okay. It's reps, reps, reps, reps.Michael Jamin:Yes. And I have a lot of respect for people who do it. And even if they come up with something terrible and crappy, well, guess what? They did it. Guess what? They put a lot of energy and work into something and their next piece will hopefully be better. And most people just dream of it. And most people will just say, here's my script. Make my dream come true. But the other people say, here's my script. I'm going to make my dream come true. And it may take long, a long process, but it's putting the work in so good for them.Phil Hudson:Yeah. My first class I went in, I had some credit transfer credits from when I was first in college. So when I went to film school, I was up, maybe I was basically a year ahead when I got there, and I had to take a couple of freshmen film classes because they were requirements. And I remember intro to film, film 1 0 1, we're in this big IMAX theater on our campus, and Peter Grendel, our professor my age is teaching. And his big point from the first lesson was the percentage of people who say they want to be filmmakers versus the people who make films is very different. It's like 0.0001% make a film. He said, so even if you put in all the time, energy, and effort needed to make an indie film that does nothing goes nowhere, you have still done something most people will never do. But most people talk about doing, and that's something to take pride in.Michael Jamin:My daughter shot a little scene in college. She got a scene, a little film that someone wrote, and it was just two people. It was short. It was like three minutes of a young woman. She was the girl and a boy sitting on a staircase talking about something, and it was too short to go anywhere. But I was like, that's interesting. You could have done something. It's easy to shoot. You're just two angles and a master on a staircase. If they had spent a little more time with the script, I go, there's something there for sure. It's something compelling about a boy and a girl who are dating and whatever they were talking about. I was like, it's something small. And the writing, it's about the writing. It's not about anything else as far as, and the acting. But yeah, I mean, just as an experiment, can I write something compelling about two people on a staircase talking about something? And we've seen this stuff. Here's a good one. Mount is a good example, but in Pulp Fiction, when Samuel Jackson and Travolta in that car are talking aboutPhil Hudson:The crown royale with cheese,Michael Jamin:That's interesting. That's interesting. Fun dialogue. You still need a story on top of that. But it's rich, and we all remember it because, or the scene or that small little scene, if you had shot that small scene where Samuel Jackson's talking about, he's in that guy's, there's young guy's house. He breaks the first scene where there's five college kids or whatever that they're threatening. They owe them money. And Samuel Jackson's talking about he's clearly a killer, but he's reformed. He's found Jesus, and he's struggling though. He's struggling to do the right thing. If you shot that one scene and it's an apartment building, that's it. You have a couple guy on a couch and a guy and two guys holding fake guns, that one scene is very interesting and compelling. If that's your movie you made, I want to see more. And it doesn't cost a fortune to write that scene. There's no special effects, I guess in the end had some fake bullets or whatever. But that's it, that that's all you need, A thug, a street thug who's a murderer, but he found Jesus and he's trying to do the right thing. Yeah.Phil Hudson:Yeah. That's great. That whole scene is fascinating. And that's for anybody listening, wanting to learn how to write great dialogue or understand characters. The fact that what's so interesting about that cheeseburger conversation is they are killers, and they're not talking about when we get there, we're going to shoot 'em in the face, or here's how we're going to dispose the body. They've done this so many times that this just, we can talk about why they put cheese on a burger. It's stabs quo. And the story's there because they're talking about the wife and the foot massage and all that stuff as they're standing in the hallway and it just happens and they kick the door and they know let's beat thugs. Right? ButMichael Jamin:How easy are both those scenes? I mean, the first one's a little harder in a car, but they're both very easy in terms of shooting, that wouldn't cost neither one of those scenes cost a fortune. It's all about the writing and the acting will support the writing.Phil Hudson:Yeah. I mean, that's Tarantino like Reservoir Dogs. It's a warehouse. It's a warehouse with some flashbacks outside. The whole thing takes you in one room,Michael Jamin:But even let's say reservoir drugs, which obviously was the one that really made him. But the point I'm trying to make is just write, because you don't have to write a whole movie, just write one compelling scene that promises something really on its own. You're like, I'm hooked. And maybe there's more to it.Phil Hudson:That ties back to your fractals podcast too, which has really stuck with me. And I think about it every time I sit down to write, when I'm structuring scenes and acts and I'm structuring my story, if you can't do a scene, well, how could you do a short, well, if you can't do a short, well, how could you do a full blown act or a TV pilot if you can't do that? Well, how can you do a two hour feature?Michael Jamin:We shot that episode, that podcast episode a long time, probably over a year ago, but it was called something about fractals. I think it wasPhil Hudson:Just called fractals.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And the point I was making is anybody who knows anything about fractals, they're patterns that repeat nature. So if you see a tree, it has a trunk in branches, but if you look at the leaf on the tree, the leaf has a trunk in branches, and then if you look at the cells, so it's about these repeating patterns. And so my point is, for movie, you have to want to write a compelling movie, right? But break down the movie into acts, and each act has to be compelling. Then break down each act into scenes, and each scene is compelling. And then each line has to be compelling. And so you're really just repeating patterns over and over, but on a larger scale. And so if you point out, if you can't write a compelling act, if you can write a compelling scene, how are you going to write a compelling act? Just start with writing a scene. That'sPhil Hudson:It. Yeah. Write the scene, write the scene, write the scene over and over and over again. You can churn out scenes. Even if you just took a week and just focused on one scene, how much better is that going to be than taking a week and powering through 50 pages?And I'm not advocating by the way that you shift your writing style, and it's not necessarily what you teach as the process that we do in Hollywood, and we've seen in TV rooms. What I'm saying is as a writing exercise, getting in your reps to practice the craft of writing, you're going to get faster return. Drilling. This thing, and I talk about this all the time, it's Josh Watkin's making bigger, small circles bigger. So how do you pull back and zoom in on something and focus on the detail work inside of that thing? And in Jujitsu's transitions in this, it's how do I get into a scene fast? How to get out of a scene fast? How do I display things through subtext? How do I have people say things without saying things? What's the thematic thing? What's the energy coming in? And the energy come out? That's all the detail. That's just a film condense. So focus, just do that while you're doing the other stuff.Michael Jamin:That's a good point. And I was going to also say, I'm guilty of this too. When I'm writing my, well, I finished my book, but when I was writing it, I'd have a scene in my mind. I wanted to get to the next scene where also some great stuff was going to happen. And then I kind of just got a little lazy in my transitions. And then when I'd read it again, I'm like, what's going on in this transition? Can I make this transition interesting? Do I have to be lazy and sloppy? Is there a goal to be found in the transition? And then I'd realize, oh, that's kind of where there's some interesting stuff is, so I'm guilty of it too. But you have to be aware. It's not just about a race, and you're not just racing to get to the next scene you are whenPhil Hudson:We talk about enjoy the journey and enjoy the process. This is what we're talking about. You have to love doing this because it ends up getting you somewhere better than where you were before. And the other quote, I believe I've said on the podcast who really stood out to me was an interview with Kobe Bryant, and he just said that nothing he does on the court, he hasn't practiced a thousand times, right? So he's in there practicing, practicing, practicing. He shows up, and you hear this all the time in interviews with other players from the Lakers, they say that they would show up their first day and they'd want to show up early to put in the work. And Kobe Bryant was already there practicing free throws, practicing free throws.Michael Jamin:You're talking about the greatest player or one of the greatest players in the N B A hasty was already there, was acting as if he was a rookie who had never taken a shot in a basketball court.Phil Hudson:All the money, all the skills, all the fame, known name, 70 hour work weeks, just putting in the work.Michael Jamin:If the greatest player has to do it, why do you think you don't have to do it?Phil Hudson:LeBron James, he makes what? A hundred million a year off of all of his endorsement deals. I read, I think in Sports Illustrated, it's like 9 million a year goes into taking care of his body just in trainers massage therapy.Michael Jamin:Wow.Phil Hudson:Why? Because that's his tool. That's his instrument. Your tool is your keyboard or your typewriter, your pad and paper and pen, and you don't need, here's the cool thing. You can write a lot of things without needing a fancy computer or fancy software. You can just sit down and practice this with a pad of paper and a Panama napkin.Michael Jamin:What's your commitment to getting better at the craft? And I get why people just want to, they want fast results, but it's not a fast result kind of game. I don't know how we got here from, should you be a TV writer or a film writer?Phil Hudson:Well, I think we're talking about indie film, we're talking about the process of indie film versus features, but all of this relates it's skillset. And I know you talked about for you, you liked TV writing, and I think with the time we have left, I'd love to hear what are the benefits that you found in TV writing? And I think they tie directly into this, which is there's more work, there's more time to sit, and you do this more than writingMichael Jamin:A feature. But not only that, I feel like TV writing, being a TV writer has helped me improve my writing all around because every week, including writing novels. Including writing films, because every week you have to come up with a new story, and it's the repetitiveness, the repetition of, okay, let's break a story. This week we got to break a story. Next week, we got to break a north story next week. And constantly coming up with new stories, even though they're half hour as opposed to an hour and a half. It's that repetition that really makes you really good. And that's why I feel, and I'm not the only one who thinks this way, if you want to watch a really good comedy, you watch tv, you don't turn to film, although there are some really funny films, pound for pound, you go back to tv.It's that action. That's where the good writers really get good. I'll see a comedy. I don't even know how many come. I tried watching one of these streamers, I'm like, oh, comedy, I'll watch this. And it's terrible. This is terrible. From some unknown, have they spent some time in a TV writer's room? They would know, no, this is not acceptable dialogue. That's not an acceptable joke. You just learn so much by being in television, I feel. And then you could go to TV or a film if you have an opportunity. But the learning ground, I feel, is in tv.Phil Hudson:Yeah. Have you seen The Bear?Michael Jamin:I saw the Pilot. I haven't watched the Rest. DudePhil Hudson:Blew my mind, and it feels like one of the most dramatic films, TV shows I've ever seen. It's short form. It's a comedy, it's a sitcom. It's got all the enemies for these comedy, and it makes you laugh, it makes you cry. It's all those notes, and you just look at it, and I looked up the creator and it's like, man, this guy has produced some of the greatest standup comedians in history. Chris Rock, just tons of people. And it's like, yeah, you're learning this from being around and doing the work. And then that translate into what I think is one of the best comedies on tv,Michael Jamin:AndPhil Hudson:It's great.Michael Jamin:I got to watch it. The problem is Cynthia's already seen it, and so I got to watch it alone, make time to watch it alone.Phil Hudson:I get it. I'm married. I understand.Michael Jamin:Yeah. But there it is. I hope that helps. Yeah.Phil Hudson:One thing I just wanted to add to this conversation was when I first got into this, the advice was really centered around, is this a TV IT idea or a film idea? Not necessarily are you a film writer or a TV writer? And I just wanted to get your thoughts on this. I hear this advice all over the place. The question was, is this something that could end or is this something that could continue? Is this the kind of idea that there's a clear defined ending to this, right?Michael Jamin:I feel likePhil Hudson:TV might've changed that now with our long form, eight to 10 minute, like a TV series ends up being a longer form film. But at the same time, I think there's some weight in that, which is something you tie back to in comedy. Your character doesn't really change at the end. They reset. I'd love your on that.Michael Jamin:Yeah. So if you're coming with a film, is this a TV idea or a film idea? If the character goes on a complete journey, Rocky and Rocky finally wins or goes the distance. It's not a TV show because he's not going to go. It's not a fight of the week. It's just like you take a street bum and you turn into, he went the distance, so it's done. That's it. They made sequels. Sure. Each sequel is basically a remake of the first one, and none of them are as good as the first one because you took a character. The only reason they did sequels is because they, Hey, we can squeeze some more money out of this. The story was over, I'm sorry, the story was over. It was a beautiful story, but it's not like a world of Rocky and Nikki and the gang hanging out that would be hanging out at the training facility at the boxing club. That would be sunny. It's always sunny in Philadelphia, which is fine. That's a TV series. They're just hanging out, people hanging out. So is it a world you're creating, or are you taking a character on a full emotional journey?Phil Hudson:Yeah, and that's an interesting, John Wick one is just great. It's great. It's a great film. John Wick two, I kind of like more than John Wick one because we get into the world, but I wouldn't want John Wick two if I hadn't seen John Wick one and felt like it was satisfying at the end, and you're kind of bummed. The other thing, this is just my thing as a writer, I really hate when characters suffer to the nth degree of suffering and just wrecking, this guy just got his life back and now you're going to ruin his life in the second film. It's a bit of a bummer.Michael Jamin:Yeah. But yeah, so that's what I ask, Yousef, are you creating a world, especially in sitcoms, this is your family. I think of it as, cheers. Do I want to hang out with these people week in and week out? Do I want to let them into my living room? Is that what it is? Because I certainly don't want to let some movies, no. Some movies, no, I don't want to The quiet place quiet. I don't don't want to let them into my living room week after week. That's unsettling to me. Great movie, not a TV show.Phil Hudson:Children are men. Children are men. One of the most impactful films I've ever seen. Haven't watched it again, so many,Michael Jamin:Right? It's enough. Right, right, right. GotPhil Hudson:The lesson. Move on.Michael Jamin:Right. Yeah.Phil Hudson:Great answer, Michael. Thank you. Bye. It was great.Michael Jamin:Alright, everyone, thank you so much. Phil and I have more to talk about. We have some exciting stuff to talk about coming up in future episodes, but thank you so much and for what are we going to talk about, Phil? We got to promote, we have a watch list, our newsletter,Phil Hudson:We got all about it. So you can go to michaeljamin.com/newsletter to join the watch list. You can also go to /watchlist. A lot of people know that one, but you've got that. It's a weekly newsletter. You've got the free lesson. It's the first full free lesson. You've broken into three parts. AMichael Jamin:Screenwriting lesson,Phil Hudson:Right? A screenwriting lesson. If you want to learn more about the very first lesson you ever taught me as a mentor about screenwriting, which I think you were taught, and I think you've taught lots of other people, is what is the definition of a story. So go get that michael jamin.com/free. I think we get three to 500 people a week sign up forMichael Jamin:That thing. Oh wow. That's crazy. We also have, we've been doing free webinars and now right now the schedule's up. We're doing it every three weeks instead of every four weeks. So you can come to that michaeljamin.com/webinar and it's free. Come sit in and thenPhil Hudson:Touring for a P orchestra. That's going to be coming up, I think, at some point, right?Michael Jamin:Yeah, hopefully. But we're hoping that our book, my book is going to drop. I'm really happy with the way it's coming up, but we're doing the audio book now, and so maybe we'll talk a little bit more about that. Maybe we will talk more about that in a different episode. Yeah, if you want to come see me on tour or be notified when my book drops as an audio audiobook as well, Michaeljamin.com/upcoming, and the audiobook is really nice. It's really because I got some music. I have a composer on it. We'll talk about it now. I guess. Anthony Rizzo, who is the composer on Maron, well, I'll talk about it in the next episode. We'll open up, talk about that. So go there, michaeljamin.com/upcoming if you want to see me on tour or be notified me the bookPhil Hudson:Drop. And for everybody watching this, this is going to be a bit out of order, so it'll be the next episode that I'm in. Right? Because the next one, I think you got Steve Lemi comingMichael Jamin:Up. Yeah, Lemi is coming up for episode 100 from Broken Lizard. Alright, everyone, thank you so much. Until next time, keep writing. Thank you, Phil.Phil Hudson:Thank you.This has been an episode of Screenwriters. Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin and Phil Hudson. If you're interested in learning more about writing, make sure you register for Michael's monthly webinar @michaeljamin.com/webinar. If you found this podcast helpful, consider sharing it with a friend and leaving us a five star review on iTunes. For free screenwriting tips, follow Michael Jamin on social media @MichaelJamin,writer. You can follow Phil Hudson on social media @PhilaHudson. This podcast was produced by Phil Hudson. It was edited by Dallas Crane Music, by Ken Joseph. Until next time, keep writing.

Did you know that Nicholeen Peck, of Teaching Self-Government fame, was once a LEMI trainer? Yep! Her kids were in a commonwealth and she taught Shakespeare at least 5 times! Tati and I had a wonderful time talking with her this week. She told us about how she started homeschooling, the big “socialization” question, and much more! As I look over my notes and relisten to the recording there is a definite theme – courage. It takes courage to do what we are doing! Nicholeen has taken courage to a new level in all she does! Be sure to listen to this episode to hear all of the wisdom she shares! Also check out her website and books! And her stint on “The World's Strictest Parents!” LINKS & BOOKS Teaching Self-Government Website Nicholeen's Books & More Ouliers by Malcolm Gladwell Jordan Peterson Podcast with Jeff Sandefer Hanson Reading Method

You asked for it! In the feedback forms that went out after LEMI trainings this summer I asked everyone to give us suggestions on who you'd like to hear from on the podcast. Tatiana had the most people request her! Tatiana has literally written the book on Simulations. She goes deep on why simulations are so effective. She also shares some amazing experiences on how she used her simulation experiences in her life. BOOKS The Bird Way: A New Look at How Birds Talk, Work, Play, Parent, and Think by Jennifer Ackerman The Girl That Drank the Moon by Kelly Barnhill

This week we interviewed a recent graduate – Aaron Dixon. At the time of the interview he was finishing up Edison Project. He shared about his amazing project which included being mentored in the classics as well as working with state government to try to get a bill passed. I'm not kidding! He is AMAZING! His family started homeschooling when he was around eight or nine years old. They found an amazing LEMI community via a church friend. Aaron shared how this community was so different from others and met his needs. He even tackles the “socialization” question! Be sure to check out Aaron Dixon this week!

Seeing the “amazingness” in everyone is an awesome lesson! Dina Wells founded her community on this concept. She saw it in the other moms she knew and harnessed it to form an amazing group! Today she trains parents to do it as a LEMI trainer for Quest 1 & 2 and School Leadership Training. Join us this week for an amazing conversation! Books:Worry-Free Eating by William DeMilleClosing of the American Mind by Allen Bloom

Přej si něco, padá banka. Poněkud cynické pořekadlo z roku 2008, z doby, kdy finanční krize kosila jednu banku za druhou, je znovu na scéně. Byť v trochu jiném provedení. Letos v březnu první vlna bankovní krize smetla tři americké banky v čele s poměrně významnou Silicon Valley Bank. Shodou náhod ve Švýcarsku v té době došlo k nucenému převzetí banky Credit Suisse konkurenční UBS.

Kevin Heffernan is 1/5 of the comedy group Broken Lizard and has made cult classics like Super Troopers, Beerfest, Club Dread, and the upcoming Quasi out on Hulu on 4/20. Kevin is also the Showrunner of the hit sitcom Tacoma FD on TruTV and streaming on HBOMax.Show NotesKevin Heffernan on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/heffernanrules/Kevin Heffernan on IMDB - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0373571/Michael's Online Screenwriting Course - https://michaeljamin.com/courseFree Screenwriting Lesson - https://michaeljamin.com/freeJoin My Watchlist - https://michaeljamin.com/watchlistAuto-Generated TranscriptKevin Heffernan:That meeting that we first had with you guys. Yeah. And we, we were at Dave, we were at we were at the three Arts offices. Yep. AndAnd I remember this cuz I was like, you know, let me and I, and you know, maybe you've come to realize this, but let, and I were, were a little bit more insecure about our knowledge about how to make a TV show cuz we hadn't done it before. Right. And and I remember I kept in the meeting, we would have conversations like, he would keep saying things like well I don't know. Cause we only make movies, you know, I don't know. Cause he's gonna make movies. Right. I kept saying that. And what I was trying to say was, I don't know anything about tv. Right. But your partner Sivert, he, he threw that back in my face at one point. He does. He said, but I don't know. Cause I only make TV, you know. Oh my God. Thought was the funniest fucking thing. I thought it was so fucking funny. Michael Jamin:Oh, thank God he didn't take the meeting.You're listening to Screenwriters Need to Hear This with Michael Jamin.Hey everyone, it's Michael Jamin. Welcome back to Screenwriters Need to Hear This, the podcast. I got another great guest for you everyone. Hope everyone's sitting down. It's Kevin Heffernan. He's also my boss, so I'm gonna be extra nice for this. But IKevin Heffernan:Like to think we're coworkers, Mike. Well,Michael Jamin:He likes to say that, but meanwhile he makes him, makes me bring him lunch. I like to and rub his feet while he eats it. I like toKevin Heffernan:But then you get somebody, you get somebody younger to bring you lunch to bring Correct. Isn't that the way it works?Michael Jamin:And rub my feet. Yes. Right. Just kickKevin Heffernan:It down.Michael Jamin:Fine. Kevin, let me give you a proper introduction for those. Okay. Who never, ever heard of you. First of all, he's the star and showrunner of Tacoma fd. We're in season four. We just finished season four right now. But also you may know him from from a million million movies. Supert Trooper. Supert Trooper Two Club, dread Slam and Salmon Beer Fest. Quai he's one of the founding members of, and I'm of Broken Lizard, which is a comedy troop. And he's also an actor. Everyone, please welcome to the show, Kevin Heffernan. Ron, can I applaud? You should definitely applaud, dude. Thank you so much. I, I have to say, and I've said this to you many times publicly, but I gotta say it, that everyone is listening. I always give you and Lemi a lot, so much credit for what you guys have done because like, the way I see my career, I feel like, I guess I'm like a Hollywood insider in the sense that I got hired by someone to be on a show and then I rose up the ranks. And then about halfway through my career, I noticed I was no longer working for Hollywood Insiders. I was working for basically Hollywood outsiders. People who made their own career and made themselves so desirable that Hollywood came to them and said, Hey, will you do stuff for us? And that's what I feel like you guys have done.Kevin Heffernan:Well, it's a little bit like I guess that's part of the, in front of the camera thing that gives you a little extra allure, I guess. I don't know. Or so, or a way to it does made,Michael Jamin:I think so. But when you started broken, you know, when you guys did your first broken lizard movie, you were just, you know, you guys did it on your own. Yes.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah.Michael Jamin:I mean, talk about that. How did you make that happen? You guys were just nobody's.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, I mean, well we, we were a, you know, a group that was, I guess we were kind of self-contained. You know, a lot of people, they get out of school, whatever it is, and they, they kind of join some other entity whether it's, you know, some performance thing like the Groundlings or they go to a film school or whatever it is. And we just did it. Our, you know, we had five, well we had more, at the time it was like eight or nine folks. And then after we graduated from Colgate University, we went to New York and we started doing live shows and, and just doing everything soup to nuts. You know, we would, did did the acting and then directing, they're producing the editing and the writing and that, that's how kind of we cut our teeth in order to, you know, and then it was just kinda like, you know, Hey, let's make some short films. Let's, you knowMichael Jamin:Where were you showing these films?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. And then we would show the films during our live shows. So we would do, you know, sketch shows, you know, in New York City and the Village or whatever. And we'd haul this like 800 pound you know, 32 inch tv into the room. And, and then we would just shoot these short videos. And they're essentially designed to show while we were able, you know, gives us a chance to change costumes and stuff, you know what I mean? It was, oh, it was a chance for us to have a, have a costume change and then we would start showing these videos. And then those were the things that always seemed to be really popular.Michael Jamin:And these were in like, small venues, like how big, how many seats?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, I don't know. 80, you know, would,Michael Jamin:And how would you get people to show up?Kevin Heffernan:Well, we, you know, we went to Colgate, which is kind of a, kind of a big drinking school. And so and a lot of people migrate, you know, when they, it's in upstate New York, so they'll graduate and they'll, they'll move down to New York City. So there was this network of people from our school who were kind of big drinkers and, and young and, and we just kind of put out the word and all the friends would come, you'd get, you know, 50 people in the room. And I remember after the first weekend, the, the place, we were doing a place called the Duplex, which I think is still there. It's in like Christopher or Sheridan Square or something like that. Christopher Street. And the show would end and the bar, the guy who owned the club would walk in and the table would be full of empty beer bottles just full . And and he'd be so happy. And he kept offering us more, you know, gigs more nights or whatever. And it was basically cuz our friends came and they drank beer and they had laughs and, and were youMichael Jamin:Hitting the door? Or how, how were you charging?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, yeah. We, well probably, we probably got some real shitty deal. You know, we probably had some horrible deal. I mean, it was like we were begging for stage time around town, you know? And and these guys, you know, let you start on a Monday night, you know, or whatever, whatever shitty time is, or, you know, Monday at 10 o'clock or whatever, you know, Uhhuh and do the show. And, and we'd get our friends to come and then it was Wednesday night, and then it was Friday night, and then it's, you know, Hey, you're doing the whole weekend. You know, and it kind of, kind of grew that way, but, and that was, and we learned to write sketches mm-hmm. when we were doing that, you know? And then did youMichael Jamin:Kind of, did you kind of learn in college though, when you were, you were writing sketches in college though?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, we, we kind of self-taught. We, we, it was kind of later towards the end of our college careers where we started this comedy group. And my buddy Jay Chen Sekar, who's, you know, still in the,Michael Jamin:There he is. Oh, we're gonna plug that Quasi is the movie plugKevin Heffernan:That, but that's him. That's Jay ChenMichael Jamin:Important. That's the most important one. I've left that one out.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. But that's him. And then he had had some background in Chicago at the IO in Second City and things like that, doing improv. And always wanted to do a show at Colgate. And so he had gotten the opportunity through some student theater group. There was a guy who was like, Hey, why don't you put up a show? And he was like, ah, I don't wanna do it. I don't wanna do it. And then ultimately, I think they gave him like 500 bucks, Uhhuh . And he decided to put together a group of people, and he and I were very close friends. And he knew that I was interested in something like that. And so we put together this group of folks, and it was probably like 15 people at that point in time and, and just started this comedy group. And we didn't know, like we didn't know how to do improv. We didn't know how to write sketches, we know any of that stuff. And it was just, JayMichael Jamin:Took one class, basically, and he's like, I'll, I'll teach you guys how to doKevin Heffernan:It. Well, he, he didn't, he wasn't even the teacher, you know, like he did. Yeah. Like, he did a, a summer, like likeGuys. Yeah. And he's like, yeah, I'll try this. And we were miserable. I mean, we were horrible. But the, the thing in, in colleges and, and you probably have the same thing, it's like, you know, I think a lot of comedy is, is is the, you have to laugh out of shared experience, right? So the audience says, Hey, I know that happened to me. You know, that's why they laugh, right? So at college, it's a very insular world that you can do that. So you can make fun of that professor and that security guard and that, you know, fraternity, sorority, whatever it is. And, and that's the thing that you learn to write and that everyone laughs at. And so that's how we started where you would just, you'd make fun of people on campus and people love it. And then you, in that way, you learn how to write and, and do characters and whatever, and Right.You know, whatever. We were all fans of Saturday Night Live and Monty Python and whatever. And I think, you know, the idea was let's just try to do that. And it was very simple because it was a, it's like given a wedding toast, you know? It's like, you know, everyone's on your side, right? Everyone wants to laugh together, the same thing. And, you know, we started doing these shows there, and they were just super popular because there was nothing like it there. And people were, were happy to see us make fun of, you know, that professor or that, butMichael Jamin:Then at some point though, you had to branch out to a larger audience, though.Kevin Heffernan:Well, that's the, that's the, the terrifying thing is we got to, we moved to New York City afterwards and realized you couldn't make fun of the dean or the professor or whatever. You had to figure out what the things are that more people would laugh at. And I think, you know, that's the little of a learning curve. But we did that, and then you just start writing sketches and, and we started making these videos. ButMichael Jamin:Then how did you still, how do you make this jump from, you know, selling tickets to friends, to selling tickets to strangers, basically?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. I, it's just, I guess it's just word of mouth is, is the way, is the way it happens. Where it's like, I, I, I remember, you know, people would bring their friends, you know, from high school and their other friends and whatever it is, and then all of a sudden you have a group of people who are into it, you know? And and then you'd have, you know, agents start to come and industry people start to show up. And really, theyMichael Jamin:Were trying to show up. You, they weren't, this is fascinating to me. So you didn't even invite them, they would just show up.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, well, you know, I mean it was kind of a fun time in New York at the time where there was kind of these two, there are different movements that were kind of happening. And one of 'em was the independent film movement, which was, you know, big. It was the Kevin Smith and, and you know, that kind of stuff where you, everyone was making, you know, low budget films. And then it was also, you know, kind of the growth of the comedy group. Again, I guess, you know, where U C B was just, just starting up in New York. And there was another group called The State that was doing stuff in they were outta nyu and they were doing shows. And so there were different kind of like, there was kind of a lot of burgeoning kind of comedy groups that were kind of in that same era. And, you know, people catch on. There was a, you know, M T V wanted to make a sketch comedy show, and they started scouting all these comedy groups, and they picked this group, the state, and they made the, they made their comedy show. So there was a, you know, there were a lot of people out there that had an appetite for, for this kind of thing. And, and you know, we were trying to capitalize on him.Michael Jamin:And the whole time you str all you guys were struggling, but you, you were also attending law school at the sameKevin Heffernan:Time? I did. I went to law school. I, I I I was working at a law firm for, for a couple years out of school. And then, yeah, I went, I ended up gonna law school during the day. Right. And then we would do these comedy shows at night. And they never, they're very different worlds, you know, like, but I remember one time we were taking a tour of the courthouse with my law school class, Uhhuh . And somebody walked up to me who had seen the live show, Uhhuh , who was like, Hey, you are the comedian Kevin hen, da da da da. Not that I was famous anyway, but this guy just happened to be in, and everyone in my law school class has looked at me and like, who the fuck are you ? Like, they had no idea that I was, had that other thing going on. So. AndMichael Jamin:Did that change the way they looked at you after? Like, they,Kevin Heffernan:I think a little bit. I mean, I was, you know, I, I was not a, a great participant in the law school world. I was kind of a back bencher. I'd sit in the back row and I didn't really, I might crack a joke here and there. And so, but then, yeah, I think, I think they probably got a feeling of like, oh, maybe this is not his his highest priority, this law school thing. DidMichael Jamin:You, well, did you pa take the bar?Kevin Heffernan:I did, yeah. I took the bar. Yeah, I did. I we took the bar. Well, I graduated from law school, and then we made our, I graduated from May, and we were preparing to shoot the first feature film we ever made. We were preparing to shoot it in June. And so I started studying for the bar and I realized, oh, I can't do this. I can't do this stuff. And so I went to my dad and I was like, I'm not gonna take the bar exam. And he's like, what? Are you crazy? And I was like, you know, he goes, you get all, you're gonna get all through law school and you're not gonna take the party time. I was like, well, I'm gonna take it, but I'll take it, you know, six months from now or a year from now. Right. You're not gonna do that. And I said, I will, I will. And he said, you know, he said, that's insane. You don't take the ball down to the goal line and not cross into the goal. You know, youMichael Jamin:Do it, you figure you're in the New York Jets. That's how they,Kevin Heffernan:That's, that's right. You know, there's some people who just don't get in the end zone . And so I, and so we did it. So, but so we made the movie and then six months later I went back and I took the bar exam and I passed it. So,Michael Jamin:See, you're a good boy now, but how did you raise the money for the movie?Kevin Heffernan:Well, that, like I was saying before, that was that era of like, people were bankrolling movies on credit cards, you know, and it was like you know, Kevin Smith or whoever it was, they, you know, made clerks for $30,000 or whatever it was, you know what I mean? So we at the time, j Chan Sacar had taken a couple N Y U film classes, and he was very much into it. He also had got started working with this guy as a, as an intern at this office of this lawyer. His name was John Slots, who had went on to become this huge, you know, independent film, you know, movie producer, icon type of a guy. And he represented all those guys, the link laters and, you know, the Kevin Smiths and Rodriguez, all these guys are making these kind of, you know, el mariachi, you know, they're making these movies, you know. And so he got into his head like, let's try to do this. And so basically we went around and we charged, I think the movie we made was called Puddle Cruiser, which was about 250,000 bucks. And most of it was charged on credit cardsMichael Jamin:Between the five of you.Kevin Heffernan:Well, well, Jay did most of it. And then some of us did some stuff in, and then some, and people got like, some of their families kicking, you know, five grand here or whatever. But the thing with Jay was that, his name is Jay Chanter Sekar. And his parents were doctors. And for some reason, the credit card companies started to thought that maybe he was a doctor and they started sending him, they would send him these credit cards and, you know, he was a day, right? You'd get a credit card in the mail, you know what I mean? And you'd be like, ah, whatever. And you use it. And so he u you know, he just charged him up and but he,Michael Jamin:And he wasn't worried about like ever paying it back. I mean,Kevin Heffernan:You know, I, I think ultimately he probably was, but that's just what everybody was doing. Like, they were just putting the stuff on credit cards and that's what we did. And we, you know, charged the camera package on credit cards and we did all that stuff. HeMichael Jamin:Needed that much. That's a lot of money. I'm surprised you couldn't do for less.Kevin Heffernan:Well there are a couple things to it. Like, number one, we shot on 35 millimeter, right? Which was unusual. Cause that's a very expensive film format. And at the time, people were shooting 16 millimeter and other things, something called Super 16. They're shooting all these things. And but we wanted shoot on 35 just cuz we thought we could ha make the movie have more commercial appeal. Right. And so we did that. And and then also it's just, you know, a lot of those movies were kind of like the adventure of one man or whatever. And we had like, you know, we al it's always been our problem. We have five storylines with five guys and whatever. So the movie's always kind of expanded a little bit. But yeah, so we went up to Colgate University we had written a, a, a, a romantic comedy like set in a college.And we went up to Colgate University and we said, Hey, can we shoot this film? And we went, we made a big pitch to the dean, you know, former students, you know, doing this thing. And he said, Nope. And then he said, you're, you're not, you're, we're not gonna let you do it. And we said that, but that's crazy. He said, look I'm the guy who puts my name on this thing, and you know, you're gonna come here up here and make an animal house and then we're gonna look like assholes. And then, and so we're like, but we would never do that. You can read the script, blah, blah, blah. And so essentially what we did we went back and, and we told our friends, it's like, like I said earlier with the people we're all drinking, it's a very networky school.And we just reached out to everyone and we said, please reach out to this dean and tell 'em you support alumni's you know in the arts. You, you support alumni in the arts and that kind of thing. And it was the, it was the age of the fax machine. Mm-Hmm. . And they just, we gave out this guy's fax number and he just started getting, he got probably like a thousand fax from faxes from you know, alumni and wow. And finally he caved. He's like, okay, all right. You can do it. Just don't have the school's name anywhere in, in in the movie. Like, okay, what about insurance? You have to worry about that. Who, who is you? Yeah. Yeah. That's part, I mean, that's part of film. You know, you, you buy insurance. Okay. You paid for that wasn't, wasn't called.Okay. No, well, they wouldn't let us. They were very adamant about us, you know, using as little of their facility as possible. They, you know, we were hoping we, they would give us a dorm for us to stay in. They wouldn't do that. And we couldn't house anybody on the campus or any of that kind of stuff. So, but it's so what I, it's just so scrappy of you guys. It really is. It's just, yeah. Yeah. No, I I, it's totally scrappy and I, I give chance se a lot of credit for that. He, you know, he was very much in that camp of like you know, let's go make a movie however we can. And and we did. And, and you know, we didn't no idea what we were doing. And, and we didn't know where to put the camera.We didn't know any of that stuff. And we had, you know, we had some professional crew folks that came that we hired, you know, from New York City, and they came up there and, you know, the DP and the Grip and the gaffer were guys who were a little bit more experienced than we were. And and, and we just shot this thing. And then we didn't even know how to edit it. We've never, you know, edited a movie before and you just learned as you did it, man. And we did. So what we did, then we came back, we were and our buddy was a NYU film student. We would, he would sneak us in at night to the NYU film department, and we would use the edit machines. And at the time, at the beginning it was Steam Back. So it was like literally the film, you would put the film and cut the film. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, don't do that anymore. But that, that, that was the end of that era. But we started cutting our films that way. And then, and then we turned, you know, on this particular movie called Puddle Cruiser, we moved over to computer editing, which was just starting then.Michael Jamin:So, wow. See what I, well, and I wanna talk about Quasi, which by the way, so Quasi Drops, this is your latest movie. It drops on four 20 on Marijuana Day Yeah. On Hulu. And everyone should go sit your, you know, whatever. It's, make sure you watch this movieKevin Heffernan:Marijuana Day,Michael Jamin:But, well, I saw, I don't even know how much you changed cuz I went to a, a screening of it, what was it, a year ago? How long was that?Kevin Heffernan:It was yeah, it was March. It was March. Wow. Of of 20 21, 2 20 22.Michael Jamin:And maybe there was, was there maybe a couple hundred people who went to that? Who Yeah,Kevin Heffernan:We, we you know, we like to do that, to do the test screens to see where the laughs are or whatever. And we got about 200 folks. We did a screening room, screening Room, Warner Brothers, and then and itMichael Jamin:Went great. Every, I mean, everyone was laughing, everyone. So I'm, yeah. I don't even know howKevin Heffernan:Much, which is terrifying because you know, that the movie, and you saw that version is, that's the, like, that was like the two hour plus cut. Right. You know, and that's when you just, you know, you throw it out there and just see what hits what sticks, you know, andMichael Jamin:And aKevin Heffernan:Lot did it with that one. And then since that version you saw mm-hmm. , you know, we've been through doing test screenings. We get notes from everybody at the studio, all that kind of business, and we've whittled away another half an hour.Michael Jamin:Do you, do you find the Oh, really took a half hour? You finding you have more notes the more, the bigger the budget or No?Kevin Heffernan:No, I don't think so. I mean, there's more fear, there's no question about that. You know, we, we, we, but we've never kind of like really kind of moved in that world a little bit. You know, we, we, we were very, we made, we remade the Dukes of Hazard, we did the Dukes of Hazard movies for Warner Brothers. That was like the biggest thing that we did budget wise, where that's like, you're spending 60, 70, 80 million and then all the decisions become very precious and, and very much my committee. But for us, I think the beauty is we've always functioned at a budget level where people kind of leave you alone. Right. You know, like, they might get adamant about something or whatever. You know, we, we had a few things on this movie that they were, they felt very strongly about. And we, you know, we'll go back and forth, but for the most part, you know, we've never been in that horrible situation of, youMichael Jamin:Know, t Sibert and I, we, we prefer the world of low budget for that reason. Yeah. Do you guys feel the same way?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. I mean, you, you just kind of fly under the radar screen. You know, it's like you know, when, when we made the movie Beer Fest, you know, we made it at Warner Brothers and at the same time they were making like the first like, huge Superman reboot and, you know, the budget of our movie was like a week of catering, you know? Yeah. On that Superman movie. And they were so worried about that stuff that they don't, they don't care. Not they don't care, but they just, you're not a high priority. So like, they do yourMichael Jamin:Thing. Bigger problems. Yeah. One of the fun things that I love, I I by watch 'em all your movies and it's, I, I don't know if you know, if you think about this, but to me it's like fun to see the same guys playing different roles, often two different parts in the same movie. And it's just, I don't know, do you, are you aware of how much like joy that gives Keep people?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, no, I mean, we love it cuz like, we'll do that too. Like when we would go from movie to movie and intentionally try to put guys into different kinds of characters, Uhhuh, , you know, and, and, and that was the reason why. Cause we thought it was so fun to see guys do different things. I mean, this movie's a great example because we do play multiple parts and guys play different kind of characters. But after we shot Supert Troopers, like for example like Jay Chanter Sekar who directed it, you know, and it was a hard thing. It's a hard thing to direct a movie, you know, it was just kind of for a million bucks and whatever, and you're always, you know, fighting the clock and you're always fighting whatever. And so he would always kind of get dower at times, you know, and, and we'd have to remind him in his performance, Hey man, pick it up.You know, we're doing a comedy, don't worry about that. Put that shit behind you. Whatever. Uhhuh . And so after Supert Troopers, you know, his character is a very straight kind of guy. We made a movie called Club Dread, and it was like, let's go in the opposite direction. And we intentionally wrote Jay as like a Ponzi, British raaf, Farian tennis player, Uhhuh . And so with the intention of like, let's give him a character that's completely opposite of what he was. Right. And it ends up having the effect of being very cool, I think for people who like the movies cuz they see people play different kinds of characters, you know,Michael Jamin:But how do you guys even do that with five, because you have five equal partners writing. Like how do you decide who comes, is one person pitching an idea? How do you get five people on board to do anything?Kevin Heffernan:It's, it's pretty hard. I think it's, I think we're lucky that we started doing it together in college. Probably like, if, if we had been assembled like in, you know, at age 35 or whatever, never fucking made, it was like, you know, it's like putting a like a, like a like the monkeys together or something, or whatever, you know what I mean? I, I don't know that we would ever have been able to do that. Cuz yeah, there's fights and whatever, but I I I think it's really always come out of making each other laugh. And if, and if the rest of the guys laugh, then you're like, oh, okay. I I think that's, and you know, and, and the cra fights, you know, from casting point of view, we started getting into this practice and we did it from Super Troopers on where, for the most part, we don't cast the movie when we're writing it. And we don't cast the movie till way later in the game because you, you find out that, you know, if you know what the part you're playing, then you kind of start writing for yourself and your own part. But if you don't know, then you write for everybody. Right?Michael Jamin:Oh, is that right? So, yeah.Kevin Heffernan:And so we made a very conscious effort early on that we would push, like, there, there are sometimes now like movie quasi, you know Lemi, we knew Lemi was gonna be the title character, but I think most of our movies, it's like we wait till later in the game after the script has gone through multiple drafts, and then we cast it. AndMichael Jamin:Then how do you decide who, I mean, how do you, what if I wanna be theKevin Heffernan:Whatever that happens too. I mean, we, we I remember Super Troopers, you know, we wrote it, we wrote Mel multiple drafts. It was with many different companies and there are many different places, and we never really cast it. And then we decided we would sit down and we, the five of us, we sat down at a table and everyone read the different parts. And then it was a conversation. It's like, you know, I think, I think you're that guy, you know? And and luckily there was never a, a big fight. And then now it's like, you know, like in the movie quasi, there's a couple characters and it was like, Hey, I thought, you know, soda, you should be that guy and Jay should be this guy. And they were like, nah, no, you know, I think he'd be much better at that guy. You know, and they were right. You know, so it was like, it kind of, it's the mindset of what's doing best for the movie, which is nice. Right. right. And so we've never really gotten into those big fights because we just cast it later, you know? Is thereMichael Jamin:A procedure though, when you guys do? Is there like a vote? Or like, how do you, how do you agree to settle shit?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah, I mean, I think like, usually it's, I guess it's the director who's kind of settles it, but it, it, no, it's just, it's just by side who's the director by democracy , becauseMichael Jamin:You guys have also also, you know, swapped sometimes, you know, you direct sometimes, you know, sometimes Jay directs andKevin Heffernan:Yeah. I mean, I guess we've done like seven seven kind of proper broken legend movies and he's directed five of them. Yeah. And I've done two of themMichael Jamin:Now. Since you've done two, I don't know why you do two. Isn't it exhausting? I mean it's, it's exhaust, it's a full-time job being a director, but then to also act Yeah. It's, it's twice as exhausting.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. It's, it's, it is kind of exhausting. And you know, the funny thing on this movie I played two characters. We all played two characters, right? Mm-Hmm. . And there's, there was some days where my two characters were having scenes with each other. Yeah. And like, you're standing there and you're like, you're acting against yourself and you're directing the thing. Yeah. And it was just like, you're like, what the fuck? Like, your head's gonna fucking explode. You're like, what am I doing here? ? And like, the beauty of it is we have these five guys, we have the support thing. And so Lemi will be there, Chan Sa I'll be there and they'll be like, Hey, you know, you should look, look out for this or whatever. You know, there's a good support group where Right. Luckily you're not, you're not hanging out there alone.Michael Jamin:And you've directed many episodes of Tacoma FD Do, how much do you, you know, what do you, what do you think, do you, what is your, what do you prefer writing, directing, acting? Do you have a preference?Kevin Heffernan:I don't know. I, I always think of it as like as like the seasons, you know, it's like whenever it's winter you want it to be summer, or whenever it's summer you wanna be winter. Yeah. Like, I always feel that way. Like whenever I'm doing one of the jobs, I'm like, God, I wish I was writing right now. Yeah. . But I mean, I think that's the beauty of the, the hyphen thing. It's like, you know, it's like you know, I just got through the editing process, right? And then which is a whole thing. And, and, and then by the, we've been doing six months and then by the end of that you're like, Ugh. And now you know, we're working on a project with you mm-hmm. , and we're working on a project with the Republican lizard guys. And you start moving back into the writing mode and you're like, oh, thank God this is fucking great. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And then whatever, three months from now they're like, God, I wish I was shooting. You know, ,Michael Jamin:It's a shooting is ex especially being directory is exhausting. You gotta be the first one there and the last one out.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. And then you gotta prepare for the next day. You gotta prepare. You should, at least you should, you know.Michael Jamin:Yeah.Kevin Heffernan:You know, but a again, like, you know, part of it that's nice is the all-encompassing kind of thing of it where it's like I don't necessarily have to expend all the director energy directing an actor mm-hmm. , because I'm doing it. And I don't have to spend, I don't spend a lot of energy translating between a writer and a director and an actor. Which also is a, I think a lot of a director's job is these kind of like interpersonal mm-hmm. , you know, figuring out how to do that because we kind of do it all, you know, so there's something kind of nice to that, you know.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Well, I guess, I mean, and I, again, I give you a lot of credit. It's cuz it'sKevin Heffernan:Well, but like, when you, when you're having a problem on the set, for example, right? Mm-Hmm. and then you know, some scenes not working or whatever it is, and you're in the middle of it as the actor writer and the director, you just kind of cart blanche to, to try to fix it. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's not like you have to bring a committee together to try to fix something, you know? Right. There's something nice to that there's something nice to that.Michael Jamin:Do you, now, this Tacoma was pretty much your first was your, was it was your first TV venture, but now, you know, I know, I, I knowKevin Heffernan:How it was. Yeah. I mean, it was the first one that went, you know, like Yeah. The thing is that Lemy and I, you know, for many years, and you know, this, I mean, for many years we, we had been making TV or developing TV shows and selling scripts and Yeah. And you can go there. I mean, I think we sold a different script, like something like eight years in a row mm-hmm. Into, into TV season, you know what I mean? Right. And they just don't go, they don't go, they don't go for whatever reason. You know, like I remember one year we sold one to I think it was B, c and we were so excited about it, and then we found out that they bought 80 scripts. Oh, . Yes. And they're, and they're gonna shoot three of them. Right. Right. And what we found out was that these networks a lot of times will just kind of preemtively buy scripts Yeah. In order to be able to control the market. And, and it doesn't cost them a lot just to have a bunch of things you know, options. Yeah. And then, you know, you're, oh fuck. So I, I think as time went on, we were trying to figure out like, what's, how do you get to the next step? Like how do you write the TV script that they're gonna shoot?Michael Jamin:Yeah.Kevin Heffernan:You know? Mm-Hmm.Michael Jamin:, what did you figure out? I mean,Kevin Heffernan:Well, it, it's partly who you do business with. So like when we pitched com, we pitched everybody, we pitched the big networks and the little networks and you know, the one that they were the most excited about and the most that you got the vibe that this, they're gonna shoot, this thing was true tv.Michael Jamin:Right.Kevin Heffernan:And, you know, we could have sold it to Fox or whoever it is, but we knew that those people were gonna shoot it. And that's the battle.Michael Jamin:They told you that. I mean, some orKevin Heffernan:Essentially, I mean, it's like we, you can also know, like, you can say, you can find out how many they buy. Right. And out of those, how many they shoot, and out of those, how many get on the air and, and somebody like True who's a smaller network, they can't go out and buy 80 scripts. You know what I mean? Right. So what they do is they'll, they'll buy three scripts and you know that you have a damn good chance if it's three scripts, you know,Michael Jamin:We would, when we sold shows back on network, you'd be optimistic at first, and then you'd read in the trades what someone else sold the show, maybe with some actor attach or director. And you'd go, all right, that's one less slot. You, you just knew it, you just knew that's one less thought to buy. Yeah.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. And then you get to things like, let me and I were talk about this morning, we were like trying to remember, there was a a, we sold a script one year about stay-at-home dads. Right. I think it was called Kept Men and the Stay-Home Dads. And our wives had great jobs and we, we would just stay at home, take care of the kids, whatever. And it's an idea that everyone has had. And I remember we, we sold it somewhere, I can't remember, it was N B C or B ABC or whatever it was. And then we found out, I think it was B nbc, we found out that there were three other stay-at-home dads scripts that had sold Uhhuh to nbc. And then we found out that like, you know, one of the producers was Jimmy Fallon, one of the producers was Ellen, you know, one of the, it was, you know, whoever. And you knew then that your fortunes are getting, you know, less favorable. Yeah. And then ultimately they pick one of those, you know, they're an nbc they're gonna pick the Jimmy Fallon project mm-hmm. . Cause Jimmy Fon is one of their superstars. And, and, and, and you know, so your, your discouragement kind of goes down as he gone. But that was always the thing was like, how do you get from the point where you sell that script to you make that script, which is really why we're in this business.Michael Jamin:Yeah. Right. And and your eyes are higher. Well, it's, it's, so, it's, I was, I would, I was gonna say your eyes are higher up getting a TV show made than a movie, but you've gotten a movies made. So what am I doing? Yeah.Kevin Heffernan:I mean, I, I guess it depends on what the market has been. I mean, they're just, sometimes, I, I only say that because I feel like it's shifting a little bit again now, but there's certainly, you know, when the streamers came in on top of the broadcast people, there were more opportunities, I feel like mm-hmm. . And at that point the films were shrinking for a number of reasons, just that it's so expensive to put a movie out. Yeah. you know, that, that as the movie companies get bigger they will not take chances on certain comedies. You know, like we, when we made Beer Fest at Warner Brothers, we were like, why don't you guys just make a shitload of, you know, 15 million comedies and try to make a lot of money outta 'em? And then cuz they said, cuz we'll make one Harry Potter and it'll make more money than 115 million comedies. Right. Everyone'sMichael Jamin:Swinging for theKevin Heffernan:Home run. Yeah. And, and that's why, and that's what we'll do. And so there was a lot of that vibe. So I think that's part of why, you know, we were like, you know, let's take a shot at tv. There's a, there's a better home for comedy. You know, at that point, I think. Yeah. and it, and it was, you know, and, and when we sent up for True tv, you know, their, their motto has kind of changed. But at the time they were trying to build a comedy network and they had Andrea Savage and Amy Sedaris and, you know, Bobcat Golf Weight and all these guys had shows. Yeah. And they were, that they were trying to make these comedy shows. So it seemed like a good, a good fit for us.Michael Jamin:And I had a question, I just now now I just lost it, but, oh, I was gonna say. So, but you also have acted on other, you've guest art on plenty other, on other shows, Goldberg, but Yeah. Do you, but do you prefer, like, do you have a preference even, I don't know, doing other people's material, your material? Do you care at all?Kevin Heffernan:I, I, I don't mind people's material, but I love writing our material and doing our material. You know, it's like, it's like the, it's like the standup thing. It's like, you know, the beauty of doing standup is that you can write a joke and then perform the joke and get the reaction from the crowd. I, I kind of feel the same way about performing our own material, you know?Michael Jamin:But I know you and you guys used to do a lot of performing standup, but you don't, you haven't done that in quite a while and you don't, what's the plan? Do you miss that at all or what?Kevin Heffernan:Sometimes I do. Sometimes I do. You know, I think it was something that we I mean some of the guys in our group have a background like, you know, chance Sakar has, you know, stand background or whatever. But I had never had it really. And then it was that last, it was the last writer strike whatever, 2008, 2009, whatever was that, when was that? Like,Michael Jamin:It was 2008. What? Yeah. What did you guys do during that?Kevin Heffernan:Well, we were, you know, we had made our movie of Slam and Salmon and we had to make it independently cuz no studios were buying. And then, you know, nobody's making a TV shows. We couldn't sell anything. We couldn't write anything. And so we had one of these kind of live standup agents who was like, look, you guys have notoriety now. You can go around and do a show, you know? Yeah. And, and make money. You know. And so it was like, oh, okay. And so we put together this show in, I think it was 2008 or 2009, you know, come in, in the strike. And we went on tour and we did whatever, I, I can't remember, we did like 20 or 30 show cities or whatever it was. And and it was like it, it, it, it kind of morphed over time.But it was like, you know, we would put our Supert Troopers uniforms on and go do a supert trooper sketch mm-hmm. . And then a guy would do, you know, 10 minutes of standup and then we'd do a beer fest sketch and then guys would do 10 minutes of standup and then whatever. And so I think that was when the vibe for live comedy for us kind of really grew. We were like, oh, this is great. This is cool. And there's an audience. Like there's a, there are fans of ours. It's not like we have to go Yeah. TheyMichael Jamin:Come see you. Yeah.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. Like we used to go and, you know, walk around Washington Square Park and hand out fucking postcards. Come see our show, come see our show come now. We don't have to do that. You know? So Isn't that amazing? That was nice. And so then that's why we got into standup cuz cuz we started doing that. And then I, I had never really done standup and I had a blast. And then it got to be the end of that tour. And then it was, the agent was like, does any of you guys, you guys still wanna go do some standup? I'll book you. And then lemme like, yeah, we'd love to. Let's do it. And so we went probably for eight or nine years we traveled.Michael Jamin:Now when you were doing this, were you literally on the road? Were you on the road the whole time? Were, were you fly back and forth to California?Kevin Heffernan:No, no. We were like you know, 40 year old guy standups, you know, it's like if we were the 20 year old standups, we would be like in a car driving around, but we would No, you'd go out, you'd do two weekends a month or whatever, you know, and you'd go out and you'd do, you know, a Thursday, Friday, Saturday showsMichael Jamin:And then flyKevin Heffernan:Back. And then fly back. Yeah. Yeah. And so but you know, probably eight or nine years we did it, you know, we would do, you know, I don't know, maybe 20 weekends in a year.Michael Jamin:Hey, it's Michael Jamin, if you like my videos and you want me to email them to you for free, join my watch list. Every Friday I send out my top three videos. These are for writers, actors, creative types. You can unsubscribe whenever you want. I'm not gonna spam you and it's absolutely free. Just go to michaeljamin.com/watchlist.It's, it's so interesting. I again, cuz you guys are just like, when I hear so many times, you're like, people are like, well, how do I sell my screenplay? And my voice is always, you don't and just do what you're, build it yourself, do it. Stop asking for permission, and that's exactly what you guys did. You just did it.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah.Michael Jamin:You know?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. I mean, that's the same advice that we give people too. It's like, you know, and whatever the, the, the kind of the world changes a little and you know you know, there are different ways to do your own thing. You know, I mean, when we started, people didn't have camera phones or Right. , you could haveMichael Jamin:Made that movieKevin Heffernan:Equipment or you know,Michael Jamin:You instead of 250,000 you could have made that movie Yeah. For a fraction of that. Right?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. Yeah. And, and so people, I think people do have that opportunity and, and, you know, they can go shoot a movie on their phone or whatever it is. And I mean, in that way, you, you at least learn how to write and act and where to put a camera and how maybe how to light something or whatever. Its Right. Right. but that, that's what we always say to people is, is do that. You know, write your own stuff and go do it.Michael Jamin:Do you find, because I mean, I'm jumping around here, but you ob you collaborate a lot either with five or four other guys, or sometimes you work with Lemy or with the writing set. Is it, you know, do you find that you don't, that you know, you don't really get to use your voice that you're always, it's, it's more collaborative? Do you miss or do you crave doing something just with your own voice or anything?Kevin Heffernan:I don't know. I never thought about that. No, I don't think so. No. I like, I like the collaboration thing. Right. I, I don't, I mean, whatever we've worked together for, what, four years now? I don't, I'm not super precious. I, I, and I, I I'm not like a dig my heels in guy I don't think. Maybe I am, maybe you'll tell me differently. But I think, you know, I think I, I, I like, I love getting, you know, seeing other people write some good jokes and whatever. Right, right. It's a, and I think it's probably born out of the fact that I've always been in a group, you know, and I've always been with these five, you know, I was with these five guys and, you know, you learn the value of having other people's perspectives and whatever. So I, I don't know. I, you know, I like standup. I, I, I really enjoyed it and it was fun and it was fun to go and tell stories and whatever, but I, you know, I don't know if there's something I I like more about, probably about the TV or movie worldMichael Jamin:Because even directing, like as a showrunner, you could, you still have ultimate the final say on anything. So if you had someone else direct, you do, I know you have other people direct episodes, but I wonder like, you know, why, I guess why, you know, what's the, what's the appeal of doing it yourself when you still have ultimate control anyway?Kevin Heffernan:Right. Right. You mean like, why not have more people?Michael Jamin:Yeah, I mean I, no, I, IKevin Heffernan:Just think, well that's, that's, youMichael Jamin:Know, exhausting. It is. That's,Kevin Heffernan:That's O C D and control and control issues, Michael.Michael Jamin:Oh, so that's why you, cuz you really want, you just want to get it done. YouKevin Heffernan:Well, no, that's what my kids will say. They'll say that I have control issues. That's right. May, that may be the case that I, I like to do things myself, but,Michael Jamin:Oh, well. But, but, but that's what that kind of speaks to what I'm talking about is like, okay, well you're do you are getting your voice across cuz you ultimately making, well, you know, so many decisions. But yeah. And so I don't know what, what advice do you have for, for young people breaking in? Do you, you know, are you getting swarm by this? You know?Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. It, I mean, you know, it happens. I mean, you get it right? You get people and they wanna send you. IMichael Jamin:Get it. But you, I'm, I think you might get different questions from me. You're, you're, well, IKevin Heffernan:Guess, I guess other, you know, I mean, yeah, I get other questions.Michael Jamin:You get recognize you walk on the street and people know who you are andKevin Heffernan:So Yeah. How do I become an actor, you know, and get that. Yeah. And, you know and it's hard. Like I, you know, I try to help people out, but I, you know, you know, there's not, there's like a, some sort magic bullet. Like, you know, guys in this industry, I mean, no matter how long you've been there, you me, every day we try to figure out how to keep our careers going. Mm-Hmm. You know what I mean? , it's like, yeah. It's like I got enough trouble, you know, trying to get what I, you know, I don't know what my next project is, you know? Right. And, and it's and every, it's a fight. I don't care if you're Martin Scorsese or whatever, it's always a fucking fight. Yeah. And so, you know, you try to impress it on people, but you don't wanna be, you know, the doom and gloom guy.You know, I, I, I did a, our buddy who's a producer, rich Perlo, who produced these our movies, he teaches a class at Columbia and, you know, LUMY and I zoomed into the class the other day and there's a lot of those questions, you know, and, and I, we got off and I was trying, I said to him, God, I'm to Rich who teaches the class. I said, I'm really sorry. I hope we didn't come across as these doom and gloom guys. Cuz we, you know, our point was it's very hard and you gotta work hard and nobody's gonna give it to you. Mm-Hmm. , you know, there's like all these kind of like, you know, myths of you know, being discovered this, that, the other thing. But it's like, you know, we've been pushing the rock up the hill for, for many, many years. Yeah. And it's just accumulation of relationships and experiences and whatever that kind of get you going that way. You know,Michael Jamin:It's, it's, yeah. Sometimes people say to me though, they wanna send me scripts. I, I'm not the guy, I I'm not the gatekeeper. I'm not the guy. I'm, I'm the same guy as you are. Try Kevin Heffernan:Trying to Yeah. You want me to do, you know, I mean, and, and you know, like you can't read their script cuz then you do violate various kind of legal things, you know?Michael Jamin:Yeah. I'm not doing that. Yeah.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. And I remember the first time we ran into that, I think we we had just gone to college and Jay and I wrote like all these spec jokes and sent 'em to the Letterman show. Mm-Hmm. . And they just, and you, like four days later you get the envelope back unopened. Yeah. with a return to sender thing on it. And there's a, a form letter, it says, we do not read unsolicited material, you know? Yep. Oh,Michael Jamin:That's, that's the end ofKevin Heffernan:That. And so that's, you can't even, you can't do it that way. So you just have to work. And I, I tell these guys also, you know, you think about some of the people who work with us, like in our writer's room, right? It's like we have this great woman Hannah who she, you know, wants to be a writer and she wants, or at least wants to work in the industry. And, and you know, we said, well, you know, you can start, you know, at the bottom. That's how, that's how you do it. You know. And so she came and she was, you know, an intern unpaid for a while, and then she was a pa and she worked right up and da blah da. And then, you know, she got to do some stuff in our writer's room, you know, essentially the secretarial elements of it, you know, which she did last year. And and that's the way you do it. You know, you start at the grunt level and then you make relationships and you keep going, , you work yourMichael Jamin:Way, right? People wanna start at the top, Mike, you don't get to start at the top. You gotta start. No.Kevin Heffernan:And you meet all the people on the way up. You know, the guy who is my, now my, my PR guy, my PR agent, who's a pre reputable guy in the business now. He's like, I don't know if you remember, I met you, you know, many years ago. And I was like, is that right? And he goes, yeah, I was an assistant on the desk of this producer mm-hmm. that you guys are doing a project with. And you would come to the office and you'd like, oh. And he said, you're very nice to me. And I, I was like, oh, glad, I'm glad to hear that. Yes. and . Now here's that guy. He's, you know, this big PR guy who, you know is very successful in the business, you know? So it, it's just, you know, there's no way that people are gonna put their script in there and become this, you know, the next Oscar winner until they work theirMichael Jamin:Right pe people are gonna think that you have listened to me talk on social media. And I know for a fact you haven't because you're saying that I've already said, which is Oh, okay. You know, I told a story as well where I was, I can't, we were going to pitch a show and the person we're meeting with is young executive. He goes, you know, we, we've met before. And I'm like, oh no. I'm like, cause I don't remember the guy. And I'm like, already, I just tanked the meeting. And he goes, yeah, I was a, I worked on a desk and you were nice to me. And I was like, oh, thank God. You know, you gotta be nice to people cuz they, you've gotta be nice to people cuz they're not gonna stay in that deskKevin Heffernan:Correctly. That's why I tell everyone, you wanna know the key to Hollywood, be nice to the assistance. Yes. Because they're, they are the gatekeepers and then ultimately they will move on to other jobs. Yeah. So they benefit you in many different ways, but if you're just a nice personMichael Jamin:Yeah, I say that as well. Don't kiss my ass, kiss the ass of the assistant. They're the ones I'm gettingKevin Heffernan:The door.Michael Jamin:Yeah. I'm not gonna help you. But they might help you.Kevin Heffernan:But then it's all, you know, whatever. It's all relationships. We, you know, I, like you said, I didn't do a, we'd never made a TV show before, you know? And we relied on certain people like you to help us do that. SoMichael Jamin:Now, and now you don't need us anymore. But don't, don't.Kevin Heffernan:Well I, I like to, I like to have you though.Michael Jamin:You like to have my little nap, littleKevin Heffernan:Laptop. No. You know, it's funny, I, I vividly remember that meeting that we first had with you guys. Yeah. And we, we were at day, we were at we were at the three arts offices. Yep. And and I remember this cuz I was like, you know, let me and I, and you know, maybe you've come to realize it, but lemme and I were, were a little bit more insecure about our knowledge about how to make a TV show cuz we hadn't done it before. Right. And and I remember I kept in the meeting, we would have conversations like, he would keep saying things like well I don't know cause we only make movies, you know, I don't know. Cause we gonna make movies. I kept saying that. And what I was trying to say was, I don't know anything about tv. Right. But then your partner Sievert, he, he threw that back in my face. . At one point he said something he said, but I don't know cause I only make tv, you know. Oh my God. That's the funniest fucking thing. I thought it was so fucking funny. Michael Jamin:Oh, thank God he didn't tank the meeting.Kevin Heffernan:No, no. I mean, I, I thought it was hysterical because that's exactly how it sounded. Uhhuh . But but we all knew what we were really saying to each other. You know what I mean? Right, right. But good cause you know, he, he made a joke of it and I thought that was very funny. I I always remember that. I alwaysMichael Jamin:Think about that. Oh, that's so funny. Cause he, he'd be embarrassed. I think if you, if you mentioned that we had a meeting once, I don't wanna say what it was, but it was not a, it was on a Disney show and you know, and he didn't want the job, but it was a job. And and he tanked. Siver tanked. He didn't mean to, he just kept on putting his foot what wasn'tKevin Heffernan:Intentional tanking.Michael Jamin:Right. He was not intentional tanking . And, and actually thank God he did. Because after that we got What did he do?Kevin Heffernan:Like what did you do to tank it? Like what was it, was he just saying bad shit?Michael Jamin:He was trying to, he was trying to be not, he was basically saying, how do you know if this is funny? Like, he's basically saying, none of this is funny to me. How do you know if it's funny?Kevin Heffernan:Okay.Michael Jamin:That's coming out. And it was just the funniest thing. And he was trying to cover up and, and I was trying to help him dig outta this hole. And it was just getting worse . And afterwards he felt terrible. He felt, cuz it's not what he was trying to do, he just felt terrible about it. But it worked out for the best.Kevin Heffernan:And you clearly did not get the job.Michael Jamin:We did not get the job. No one, only an idiot would hire after that job. But and I, I didn't make him feel bad. He felt terrible. But I was like, don't, don't worry about it. This is not the job for us.Kevin Heffernan:. . See, you don't want it. Like, if they don't get, you know, you don't wantMichael Jamin:Yeah, it was, it was a, it was very awkward. But we doKevin Heffernan:That in a lot in our careers though. Like, I feel like there was certainly, and certainly in that time period I talked about where we were just selling, you know, TV scripts. You re you think about like, I I just want to, I just need to make some money. I need to do this. I need you going to get this door and whatever. And then, I don't know, there, I think that point in time where we started doing standup and whatever, I was just like, ah, fuck, fuck it man. I can't, we had been hired so many times to write scripts for people and, and you know, it didn't go anywhere that they, you're like, what the fuck, who the fuck is this person giving me comedy notes? Mm-Hmm. . And finally you're like, Ugh, I don't wanna do that anymore. Yeah, yeah. I just wanna make a TV show.Michael Jamin:Yeah. And, and, and, and you get, you know, it's actually, I I think it's, it's more gra I don't know, I say this never having made a movie, but I don't know. It's like you get to shoot it, you write it and then you shoot it and then it's up in the air in a matter of months. And they get Yeah. You could do work in film, not you guys, but most people work in film and they never get a, you know, anything shot. They can have aKevin Heffernan:. Yeah. I mean that's the Yeah. But that, that's, that's also the weird thing about movies too. And, well, it's a little different when these movies now this, this streaming stuff is just a little bit different. It's, it is a little bit more in the TV world, but movies are kind of like gotta, I don't wanna sound like a, I'm shitting on it or whatever, but I, it's, I love it. But there is like this thing with this, this buildup and you've worked on this thing for years and then it gets to that first weekend and then that's it. Whether it's, you know, successful or not successful, you're done.Michael Jamin:It's all about opening weekend.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. It's over. Like, you know, like, there's not like a, and I'm not saying that in a bad way, I'm just saying it's like, it's like, it's like kinda stepping off a cliff, you know what I mean? And then you're done. Like tv, the beauty of like Tacoma 13 weeks in a row, you got in something new story that's coming out.Michael Jamin:Right. And it can buildKevin Heffernan:And it can build and it's a new thing. ButMichael Jamin:Never whatKevin Heffernan:Understood that finite thing, you know?Michael Jamin:But I never understood that with a box office. If you tank on your opening weekend, like, well why can't it build, grow? Like why can't it grow in the second weekend? Why can't, the word of mouthKevin Heffernan:Why can, and it does at times, but it doesn't ma like the, the metric the bar is, is how you do in that first weekend. So like,Michael Jamin:That's what you're measured up. But why don't they consider the overall gross? I mean, I don't, you know.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. I, it just, it doesn't know. I don't know. Cause it, it just, it's all pushed by that opening weekend. You know, like our, like our movie like Super Troopers. It did, you know, it did okay. It did nothing. Nobody who we were. But you know, it was at the height of the kind of DVD era, which is they were, you know, printing money in that era. This movie studios were. Yeah. And we would see, you know, quarterly reports for, you know, Fox or whatever and Super Troopers would be listed in them cuz it would be making so much money for them. Yeah. Not in theatrical, but on the DVD market. Right. And you're like, well, why aren't we though? You know, the guys that you sing about. And it's, it's cuz it's still the industry still driven by opening weekend.Michael Jamin:It's so Still is. Yeah. Because it became a cult hit. I mean, you guys are, you know, you really have a, a cult following. I mean, and then loyal, you know, they, they show up you're fans.Kevin Heffernan:Yeah. And so that, that was the great thing. So this trailer came out and in the first 24 hours at 8 million views.Michael Jamin:Is that right? Yeah. How did, how did that now where did they drop where? Okay. How does that work when they drop a trailer on the, we&#

Le 11 janvier, dans un livre, « Un pas vers l'autre, de l'anorexie aux marathons », Romane Lemière raconte son combat contre l'anorexie et comment, grâce à ses proches, aux médecins et au sport, elle est parvenue à vaincre cette maladie. Sur Instagram, elle partage son histoire avec ses 70 000 abonnés pour alerter sur ce trouble du comportement alimentaire qui touche davantage les femmes en France et particulièrement les plus jeunes. Dans le cas de Romane, c'est le sport qui l'a précipité dans cette terrible engrenage. Quand elle est adolescente, elle découvre la course à pied et pour être plus performante et ressembler aux autres athlètes qu'elle côtoie sur ses premières courses, elle décide de perdre du poids. Elle commence à supprimer des aliments de son alimentation, mange de moins en moins jusqu'à atteindre 37 kilos. Pour Code source, Romane Lemière a accepté de revenir sur son histoire au micro d'Ambre Rosala.Crédits. Direction de la rédaction : Pierre Chausse - Rédacteur en chef : Jules Lavie - Reporter : Ambre Rosala - Production : Raphaël Pueyo - Réalisation et mixage : Julien Montcouquiol - Musiques : François Clos, Audio Network, Epidemic Sound - Identité graphique : Upian. Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.