Finding Market Fit: Marketing Leaders in Tech

Manu Orssaud is the Chief Marketing Officer of Duolingo, where he is responsible for building the brand and driving user growth globally. Prior to Duolingo, Manu led Global Marketing Strategy at Spotify and one of the things he was was responsible for was leading the award-winning Wrapped annual campaign. Manu was also at Sony PlayStation and developed the digital marketing function across EMEA for the global entertainment brand. --- We cover:  How Duolingo moved from a paid advertising to a social first approach  This approach which has led to a much more significant impact to acquisition, retention, and driving the brand globally  Focusing on developing locally relevant content  Building a team that is nimble, resourceful, and understands the brand extremely well --- Where to find Manu:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/eorssaud/ --- Where to find Patrick:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (02:16) An intro to Duolingo and its business model  (02:57) Duolingo's mission and the problem it's trying to solve (05:58) Science backed language proficiency framework that Duolingo uses  (07:44) Main audiences around the world  (09:19) The alternatives to Duolingo and what is specific to the experience  (13:12) Building a global brand and Duolingo's approach to this  (16:52) Learning from the community and the magic that came out of those interactions  (22:08) Driving new user growth and retention rates through social media  (24:05) The marketing mix  (26:57) Expanding the brand globally and being locally relevant  (29:39) Doing social media locally really well  (31:00) Developing specific story lines and how fast content travels  (32:59) Approach to team structure, a focus on being nimble, resourceful and understands the brand extremely well (35:32) Where to find Manu!            

Alex Birkett is a co-founder of Omniscient Digital, an organic growth agency that builds content & SEO programs for ambitious B2B brands. Previously, he worked on growth and experimentation at Workato, HubSpot, and CXL.  --- We Talk About: Figuring out the right opportunity areas for content marketing  Effectively using Generative AI to develop a unique POV  Applying the barbell strategy to make bets on approaches  Finding the next horizons of growth for content  --- We cover:  https://beomniscient.com/blog/barbell-content-strategy/ https://beomniscient.com/blog/first-steps-to-incorporate-ai-into-content-marketing/ --- Where to Find Alex Birkett:  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamalexbirkett/ Personal Site: https://www.alexbirkett.com/ Website: https://beomniscient.com/ The Long Game podcast: https://beomniscient.com/podcast/ --- Where to Find Patrick Moran: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/  --- (02:14) Key drivers the definitions of organic growth  (04:04) Figuring out opportunity areas and goal definitions (06:30) Common mistakes companies mistake when figuring out their content strategy (11:16)  Finding channel-product fit and leaning in on strengths  (14:15) Generate AI in content and the current use cases  (16:28) Tactical usage of Generative AI and when to use it for competitive advantages    (18:21)  Maintaining authority and a unique POV with content  (19:38) Creatively molding concepts and developing foundational use cases   (20:31) How to think about measurement and effectiveness for content marketing  (22:13) Applying attribution based methods to the growth model  (26:24) Using a barbell strategy to developing a portfolio of content bets  (30:47) Evolving the portfolio over time  (34:27) Finding the next horizons of growth through the barbell strategy  (37:42) Affiliates and partnerships within the content strategy  (40:20) The differences between B2B and B2C and borrowing models from both  (42:06) Where to find Alex Birkett!

Andrew has over fifteen years of Ad and MarTech experience at eBay, Google, Meta, Netflix, Snap, and fintech startups.  He has tackled hard challenges in product, strategy, growth, go-to-market, and partnerships across many verticals and geographies.  He is highly strategic, and has experience building and applying buy- and sell-side ad technology at scale. He has been advising companies from start-ups to Fortune 500 enterprises since 2012.  --- We talk about:  Varying measurement methods and when to lean in on one or two of them  How the most sophisticated advertisers use a persistent hold out  The best way to approach media that has to run nationally  The differences between measuring advertising and channel effectiveness and optimization impact  The variables needed to structure effective measurement methods   ---  Where to find Andrew:  Andrew's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewcovato/ Growth by Science: https://www.growthbyscience.com/ --- We reference:  https://www.measured.com/blog/geo-testing-series-test-design/ https://www.measured.com/blog/geo-testing-series-part-2-test-management/ https://www.measured.com/blog/geo-testing-series-part-3-analytics-and-reporting/ --- Where to find Patrick: Patrick's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (2:07) History of advertising and contextualizing the ideal measurement stack  (7:40) Options for measurement - Geo testing, using media mix models, time series analysis, and newer versions of multi-touch attribution  (12:55) Using a measurement tax effectively to value advertising and the consequences of using attribution  (15:16) The most effective ways to impact advertising using creatives, reach, and frequency and not playing around with bidding  (16:50) Using upper funnel metrics to inform optimization approaches  (18:54) Situations where attribution is applicable  (21:46) Budget approach required to run these tests and committing to the process to detect signal  (25:44) Approaching marketing level impact first and then measuring channel impact  (30:26) Using a constant holdout, when it works and when it doesn't work (33:39) Simplicity and specificity when setting this up  (37:28) The three main variables on structuring a persistent hold out  (39:39) Measuring brand advertising  (45:41) Perspective on using varying look back periods  (47:56) Where to find Andrew!            

Andrew is the Head of Consumer Growth at OpenStore where he leads the team responsible for managing and growing OpenStore's portfolio of Shopify brands. His team is building a proprietary stack across data, engineering, marketing and retail management. OpenStore provides liquidity to Shopify entrepreneurs that drive at least $1M in GMV or Gross Merchandise Value. They now own or work with 40 brands and over 100K products. Prior to OpenStore, Andrew was SVP, Marketing at Grove Collaborative, where he built the Consumer Marketing team and served as a member of the executive team from Series A through IPO. He was also a VP at QuinStreet, where he incubated an email marketing business that grew to $10M in its second year, and held a variety of management & operational roles.   --- We discuss:  The tailwinds and headwinds that Shopify entrepreneurs face  Channel make up for different types of ecommerce companies  Factors to consider for unit economics and measurement Optimization levers for Google and Meta --- We cover:  OpenStore: https://open.store/ Increasing revenue for Jack Archer, a clothing brand: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-openstore-increased-jack-archers-revenue-from-1m-10m-silard%3FtrackingId=S%252BASEL%252FcYp95KMwF50Te8Q%253D%253D/?trackingId=S%2BASEL%2FcYp95KMwF50Te8Q%3D%3D Various ways to increase profitability: https://open.store/blog/best-practice-shopify-profitability-customer-support --- Where to find Andrew:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewsilard/ --- Where to find Patrick:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (02:49) What's driving lower barriers to entry for starting an e-commerce store but much more difficult to scale   (06:22) The common two different models that have different channel mix complexions   (10:39) Where Wayfair started and where they've graduated to as an example of the progression of certain companies  (15:00) Having the expertise to operate efficiently given the plethora of tools out there  (16:01) How to think about unit economics, especially given VC funding levels  (20:46) Variables to consider with targeting existing users    (22:32) When creative optimization becomes the main lever    (26:40) When feed optimization is the main lever and using AI for dynamic overlays  (28:32) Google and Meta has made it easier for SMBs to play in paid, but still comes with optimization shortcomings  (29:55) Using an effective attribution model    (33:42) What OpenStore does for Shopify entrepreneurs and the direction of the company  (39:49) The challenges that comes with the interoperability of tooling  (41:51) Where to find Andrew!     

Shannon Deep is a writer, brand marketer, and grown up theater kid, who has never met a craft or cat she didn't like. From freelance writing, dramaturgy, and script consulting to working at international branding agencies and global tech brands, Shannon has always put storytelling at the heart of her career. She's the co-founder of Bonfire, which helps brands and the people who build them kindle their creativity through better storytelling. Kevan Lee is the co-founder of Bonfire. Prior to Bonfire, he led marketing teams for some of the biggest brands in tech, and he has over 15 years experience in scaling growth, brand, and impact from zero to one (and well beyond).  --- We cover:  The story structure framework and how to establish a brand  Importance of consistency and quality  Defining a brand's purpose  Examples of brands that have applied story structures effectively     --- We reference:  https://aroundthebonfire.com/ https://kevanlee.substack.com/p/317-story-structures- https://kevanlee.substack.com/p/409-purpose https://kevanlee.substack.com/p/435-storytelling-frameworks --- Where to find Shannon and Kevan:  Shannon's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannon-deep-34997983/ Kevan's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevanlee/ https://aroundthebonfire.substack.com/ --- Where to find Patrick:  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (02:34) What startups don't do in effectively developing a brand  (04:29) Implications of limited and narrow ways of brand conception with companies across all stages (06:17) Applying a brand system through quality and consistency  (07:19) The importance of developing a consistent and compelling brand narrative (08:39) Cases and examples of companies with consistent brand storytelling and the advantages that come with it  (11:39)  Overall structure and framework of story structures at the executive level down (13:23)  The purpose as an intersection between a cultural tension your solving for and a view of your brands best self (15:39) A strong brand purpose is longer term, inspirational and motivational and can be considered relative to what competitors are doing (20:25) The right teams and leaders involved with developing the brand  (23:29) Crafting nuanced and multifaceted stories - category/product/persona/cultural - to apply the story structure (27:18) Using data and insights to inform the story structures (30:38) Sequencing and prioritizing structures and the stories that come with it  (34:06) Applying measurement and effectiveness on how stories resonate  (41:07) How these stories fit within the overall marketing strategy and deriving impact  (46:40) Applying story structures with brands  (49:26) Where to find Shannon and Kevan!       

Cian is the Chief Marketing Officer at Wise, a global fintech company which solves for international money challenges for consumers and businesses. Cian was the Chief Customer Officer at Secret Escapes, a members-only travel and experiences company, working across brand, performance marketing, CRM, data science, and product. He's also spent time at The Guardian, ASOS, eBay, Lloyds Bank, and Capital One.   --- We talk about:  Building regional marketing teams  The role of measurement in decision-making, and the relationship between marketing and finance Leaning into customer experiences to differentiate from a crowded space     Why it's not advisable to apply universal playbooks  --- Where to find Cian:  Cian's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cianw/ --- Where to find Patrick:  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (02:22) Introduction to Wise  (05:51) Foundations on consumer marketing and building out B2B and enterrprise marketing  (08:08) State of the European macro environment and the implications to Wise (10:17) Product led growth and developing a solid product experience to drive more acquisition   (13:19) Ensuring marketing is a growth lever and drives causal impact  (15:48) Using a predictable LTV and fully loading costs within a 12 month payback period. Establishing profitable cohorts    (21:48) Building SEO at scale to drive organic acquisition and an owned sophisticated affiliate network to contribute to SEO traffic  (wow)   (24:19 ) Leaning in on content for B2B marketing  (25:05) Regional and international organizational models  (29:54) Lifecycle marketing and CRM operations  (32:00) The CMO/CFO relationship and developing the conviction and trust around governing spend  (35:40) Establishing the brand mostly against banks  (40:53) Not believing in universal playbooks which is broken with new constraints. Focusing on first principles    (44:08) Execution is not the only thing that matters (47:27) Sustained CMO leadership  (50:26) Where to find Cian!

Arielle picked up product marketing on the job at Google, where she helped grow Gmail in its early days. Then at Square, she was one of the first marketers who led the launch of new hardware products and distributed them to more than 30k retailers. Arielle's worked with hundreds of early stage companies — including Patreon, Loom, Front, Bowery, Eero, and Maven — on their foundational messaging as the Marketer in Residence at First Round Capital and through her own consulting practice.  --- We talk about: Developing a positioning strategy before building  Problem discovery and audience understanding  Focusing on the primary audience and making sacrifices on who not to target  What has worked and not worked   --- Where to find Arielle  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ariellerjackson/ X: https://twitter.com/hiiamArielle --- We reference:  Positioning is Vital to your Startup Strategy: https://review.firstround.com/Positioning-Your-Startup-is-Vital-Heres-How-to-Do-It-Right Arielle's Brand Strategy Course on Maven: https://maven.com/arielle/startupbrandstrategy --- Where to find Patrick LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (2:49) Positioning strategy is just another name for your product strategy (5:29) Developing the positioning exercise before writing a line of code  (8:44) Sacrificing who you're not building for and being extremely focused on that   (13:30) Focusing 100% on the audience at first and uncovering competing alternatives (18:47) Naming trends and focusing less on timeless names, tones, and brand look and feel  (26:56) Pick one key benefit and double down. Using the bar test    (30:42) When word of mouth is generated and how messaging is a pre-requisite  (32:39) Positioning time horizons for start-ups and later stage companies  (36:34) Approaching a second product  (39:22) Some of the big positioning failures over time  (43:03) When positioning worked (44:34) Where to find Arielle!          

Adam is a Growth and Product advisor, the author of the FishmanAF Newsletter and creator of the Startup Dad podcast. He's also  an executive in residence at Reforge where he leads the Growth Series and co-created the Growth Leadership program. He has been an executive at ResortPass, Imperfect Foods, Patreon and Lyft.  --- We talk about: The components of a product strategy  Marketing and Product partnerships within the product strategy structure  A framework for building cross functional growth teams Key starting points and prioritization Leadership and C-team alignment   --- Where to find Adam: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamjfishman The FishmanAF Newsletter: https://www.fishmanafnewsletter.com/ Reforge: https://www.reforge.com/experts/adam-fishman Startup Dad Podcast: https://www.startupdadpod.com/ We reference: The Growth Leadership Program: https://www.reforge.com/courses/growth-leadership The Growth Series: https://www.reforge.com/courses/growth-series Centralize or Decentralize: https://www.fishmanafnewsletter.com/p/growth-teams-centralize-or-decentralize Building a Growth Strategy: https://www.fishmanafnewsletter.com/p/how-to-build-a-growth-strategy Where to find Patrick: Patrick's Linkedin Profile --- (03:17) The four components of a product strategy  (08:15)  How marketing fits within the product motions and product organizes across these components (14:14)  Where things usually go wrong between marketing and product teams and ensuring alignment (19:35) Starting with metrics alignment and incentivizing the financial objectives of the company (26:15) Centralized and decentralized growth teams  (30:22) The make up a growth squad  (31:37) Growth squads within a GM structure  (34:50) Expanding product market fit, the marketing motions against it, and cross-selling and monetization  (37:30) Internationalization and expanding markets  (39:13) The four components of building a growth team and not copying structures of other organizations   (44:38) Starting small with one team focused on a key area in the growth model  (46:44) The most common starting points, activation and  monetization   (48:15) Prioritizing team profiles and going in on centralized v decentralized areas (53:33) Aligning with the executive team  (56:08) Where to find Adam!  

Lorena is a General Partner at Billioneurons, a Venture Capital Fund, that invests in Supply Chain, SAAS and Fintech Startups in Latin America. She is a Board Member and the COO of Erudit AI, an HR software company and prior to that, held marketing and leadership roles at various top tech companies in the region like Rappi, the Linio Group, and Stori Card.      We talk about: Building start-up ecosystems in Latin America Marketing dynamics for tech companies and super apps Talent dynamics and organizational development in the region The growing B2B market in Latin America Going to market and focusing on specific countries before expanding --- Where to find Lorena: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorenasanchezgarcia/ https://medium.com/lorena-emprende https://www.instagram.com/lorena.emprende/?hl=en --- We reference:  https://www.reforge.com/courses/growth-marketing https://www.kavak.com/ https://about.rappi.com/ https://www.linio.com/ https://mercadolibre.com/ https://nubank.com.br/en/ https://www.yalo.com/ --- Where to find Patrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ ---   (03:39) Building for the emerging middle class in Latin America  (06:14) How Kavak (car marketplace) got started and building for ecosystem level opportunities vs user level opportunities  (08:13) The path to super-apps in Latin America which doesn't exist in the US   (10:44) How start-ups like Rappi drove user growth across their various verticals  (13:07) Engineering challenges and honing in on manual labor vs automation (15:55) The dynamics of which countries to start in and which countries to expand to   (17:57) Infrastructure implications for expanding into different Latin American markets  (19:38) Going from manual labor to automation (20:33) Growing B2B presence in Latin America and why  (24:25) Successful SaaS companies, like Yalo, employ both consumer-facing and B2B2C strategies (26:16) The challenges and opportunities for Latin American startups, stressing the importance bridging the gap between socio-economic challenges, mindset, and resourcefulness (28:39) Marketing talent and skill gaps in Latin America (33:32) Going to market using traditional and guerrilla marketing and then building on top of that using digital   (35:59) Acquisition and engagement strategies for super apps like Rappi  (37:42) Using Reforge frameworks to solve problems but the need to rely on traditional marketing in Latin America in order to build a category   (41:01) Difficulties with measurement and attribution given the number of touchpoints and lack of tracking and automation   (41:42) Primary distribution in LatAm like WhatsApp (42:39) Where to find Lorena!

Amanda is the VP of Marketing at SparkToro, an audience research platform. Along with teaching content marketing at Maven, Amanda also publishes a marketing newsletter called The Menu. She is a contributor for Adweek, an incredible chef who trained at Le Cordon Bleu, and a former journalist. Amanda previously led marketing for Growth Machine, led marketing for Liftopia, built Fitbit's B2B content program, and led content and communications for NatureBox.   We talk about: Defining product-led content and it's growing importance Nuances in target audience How to think about distribution  Optimizing for both reach and resonance Content-specific KPIs and business impact   Where to find Amanda:  https://amandanat.com/ https://twitter.com/amandanat https://amandanat.substack.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandanat/ https://sparktoro.com/audience-research-newsletter   We discuss:  https://sparktoro.com/blog/   Where to find Patrick: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/   — (02:39) Defining product-led content and its purpose (03:42) How product-led content has developed over the last few decades (07:20) Thinking about the different components of product led growth through the marketing lens (10:38) Content through the various journey of the customer lifecycle  (11:13) Middle and bottom funnel content specific approaches  (14:20) How content fits various growth motions in different companies  (18:45) Defining audiences and identifying sources of advocates and influences   (23:22) Writing for certain audiences and providing value    (26:30) Thinking about distribution from the very beginning   (30:54) Framework for content distribution through various platforms  (34:32) Creating for both reach and resonance  (38:00) Developing primary forms of content and structuring for various content channels and being authentic to those channels    (42:51) Looking at content marketing KPIs that signal utility and strength and tying to business metrics  (45:59) Where to find Amanda!   

Yik Yak is a psuedoanonymous social media platform primarily focused on on-campus college students. Yik yak first launched in 2013 and at it's peak hit about 7M Monthly Active Users and about 2.5M daily active users, spending roughly 30 minutes per day on the app. They consequently raised north of $60M. But the app hit a ceiling with growth and in 2017, unfortunately, was sold to Square. The name and logo have since been purchased from Square in 2021.    Justin led product marketing at YikYak and was one of the first employees. Brooks is one of the co-founders, and has since gone on to build another startup, Switchyards, which is a neighborhood work club. Justin has gone on to lead Product Marketing at Discord. We talk about:  How Yik Yak got started  Building engaged communities on and off platform  Dealing with challenges like bullying and negative content  Difficulties of expanding markets  Building a great culture --- Where to find Brooks and Justin:  Brooks' LinkedIn Profile  Justin's LinkedIn Profile --- Where to find Patrick:  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (3:12) How Yik Yak got started  (6:37) Driver of immediate growth and access to an immediate audience  (7:40) How the app quickly scaled  (9:28) Initial engagement metrics and awareness compared to Twitter, Instagram, and Snap  (13:31) Why copycat apps never hit it as big (16:30) Initial tools and guidance in building the right community (19:35) Honing in on authentic content (25:00) Sparking growth through onsite events through identifying campus influencers  (29:48) Why everyone loved the Yak on campus, developing new experiences, and hitting the tipping point before engagement starts to run on its own  (40:42) Addressing bullying, high school campuses, and the negativity of certain campuses  (44:23) Limited upside and not much incentive for allowing negative content to persist  (46:11) Marketing's role in driving growth and its limitations (48:37) The challenges of natural churn and turn over due to graduating seniors  (50:00) The shared feed across thousands of students loses its novelty over time  (51:19) How the college experience is a shared experience and the difficulties of expanding use cases beyond that  (55:41) Catching lightning in a bottle at that time  (56:55) Trying psuedoanonymity and micro communities (59:12) Looking back at the company culture                          

Piotr is the co-founder of Nafas, Indonesia's largest integrated air quality platform. Before Nafas, Piotr was the CMO of Gojek, Indonesia's first super-app which combines payment, transportation, logistics, food delivery and multiple other services under one roof. At Gojek, Piotr was responsible for building the brand into one of the most loved & well-known in Indonesia through marketing, performance and brand campaigns.   We discuss:  The development of super apps in Southeast Asia  Gojek vs Grab and the David and Goliath story  Leaning into the Indonesian culture to drive brand affinity  The elements that worked in competing with an incumbent or a larger competitor   --- Where to find Piotr Piotr's LinkedIn Profile Piotr's Twitter Profile --- Fast Company Article on Gojek and Grab --- Where to find Patrick Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:22) Understanding the context of Jakarta and the genesis of Gojek   (13:02) The offerings of Gojek and Grab in the market  (15:55) Grab's larger initial valuation (10X of Gojek) and what drove it   (17:23) Gojek leaning into Indonesia culture to compete (19:44) Competition heating up and figuring out how to scale faster   (22:41) Amplifying the Gojek community and the capabilities it allows  (27:47) Impacting product-market fit and amplifying the brand   (30:12) Focusing on the Indonesian market and building habitual behavior    (34:20) Understanding the metrics and measuring effectiveness  (36:39) How to approach market expansion and appreciating cultural nuance (40:45) Where to find Piotr!     

Ido is the co-founder & CEO of Voyantis, an LTV prediction platform powered by AI. Ido is  an entrepreneur with over 15 years of expertise in building growth and marketing teams. Before Voyantis, Ido co-founded Tvinci,  a platform that allows media companies to create personalized, social TV experiences, which was later acquired by Kaltura. We talk about:  Defining LTV for specific companies and the right ways to use payback periods  Bidding for audiences relative to their LTV  Using predictive LTV models  How to operationalize these models in-house or with a partner --- We reference:  Predictive LTV Value Based Bidding In-House Balancing Growth and Profitability Facebook Predictive LTV White Paper --- Where to find Ido Ido@voyantis.ai Ido's LinkedIn Profile --- Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (3:12) Defining LTV and what you want to achieve  (7:11) Using the right payback periods  (10:52) The right balance between payback period and profitability  (14:28) Focusing on high value customers (16:42) Value based bidding capabilities and being more discriminate with various LTV cohorts  (19:10) What is predictive LTV and how to use it to optimize for campaigns  (25:24) How the model works within new privacy structures (26:47) In-house or using a vendor for these capabilities  (32:24) Expanding value based bidding to other ad platforms (35:50) Operational costs of maintaining the model  (39:37) Measuring marketing profitability (44:21) Where to find Ido!     

Kiki spent her career in various marketing and product roles spanning both B2B and B2C companies. She currently leads growth marketing, new business, and content marketing at Plaid. Prior to Plaid, Kiki led growth marketing at Credit Karma, which was subsequently acquired by Intuit.  Prior to her roles on the brand side, Kiki led product management for Adobe's data platform products.  This was a pretty topic dense conversation. We go through:  Building a centralized marketing ops function that covers creative production and martech capabilities for Plaid, which has three customer motions  The core components of a Martech stack  Measuring both brand and growth specific marketing initiatives for business customers, partners, and end consumers Establishing the models for retention and lifecycle marketing  --- Where to find Kiki:  Kiki's LinkedIn Profile --- Where to find Patrick:  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:49) Overview of Plaid's business model, their core audiences, and primary revenue drivers (5:53) The role of marketing in driving revenue (6:44) How marketing operations is structured  (7:40) The efficiencies or unlocks that an actual operations team can provide and a look at how the structure works from the inside (10:01) Structuring the martech team   (11:23) A usual case scenario versus a realization for Marteach team being separate (12:29) The approach on building out the Martech stack for Plaid (16:53) The specific capabilities through these phases, the types of Martech components as solutions, and consideration of CDP in phase two (19:44) Value based bidding, optimizing for LTV cohorts, being sophisticated with the amount of data, and frequency of doing that (22:11) MarTech dynamics of the lifecycle component for B2B and for B2C and the approach used (26:14) The core solutions that are common across both B2B and B2C companies include a CDP, CRM, and ESP (27:41) Using the CDP for both engagement/retention side and the acquisition side (29:15) Measurement from a performance and growth standpoint on the acquisition side and on the brand side (33:42) The process in identifying the right KPIs or metrics to correlate against (36:03) Measuring the impact of lifecycle campaigns on the plan business (38:35) A governance centralized model (42:34) Where to find Kiki!   

Erica is the founder of The Connective Good, a boutique retained executive recruiting practice that she started 12 years ago. She focuses on placing CMOs and VPs of Marketing in high-growth SAAS companies. She's spent time at Forrester Research, where she ran peer-to-peer executive education businesses for CMOs and digital marketing executives of Fortune 500 companies.  We go through:  What early to late stage B2B SAAS companies are looking for in CMOs in 2023  Finding your product-market fit as a candidate  The differences between CMOs who scale and those who don't  Advice for candidates looking for their first CMO roles in B2B SAAS --- Where to find Erica:  Erica's LinkedIn Profile The Connective Good Blog The Get Podcast --- We reference:  The DNA of CMOs who can scale How the best CMOs scale in B2B SAAS Building a win-win relationship with your board How to find your product-market fit in the market How to inject discomfort in your scale journey --- Where to find Patrick:  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:43) What the current market is looking for with CMOs and VPs (6:04) Leaders should spike in efficiency and immediate impact  (7:22) Contrast between founder-led and professionally-led searches  (9:37) Nuances in partnerships between a CMO and the founder and the CEO  (11:25) Finding your own job-market fit and defining your differentiation  (15:25) Using two distinct areas to communicate fit to a role  (17:34) The two areas that are important in B2B SAAS today (21:06) Advice for candidates looking for their first CMO role (24:00) 360 degree management style as a new CMO (26:56) Differences between CMOs who succeed and those who don't (30:01) The importance of solving real problems  (32:43) Consistent alignment. Collaboration is continuous    (35:00) Dynamic of growth and discomfort    (37:26) Interview questions to determine adaptability for a role  (39:43) Where to find Erica!     

Rachel is the CMO at Notion where she leads a team that combines the best of B2B and B2C marketing.  Previously she led a variety of teams at Slack and LinkedIn, including growth marketing, product marketing and platform marketing. She was the founding marketer at Climate Corp., which sold to Monsanto in 2012 for over $1 billion.  We cover:   The dynamic of marketing for a B2C2B model. Reaching consumers while ensuring relevance for B2B companies  Fueling word of mouth by understanding the underlying drivers  Global approaches and expanding communities with local market relevance Conversion and expansion capabilities  Using lifecycle marketing to drive engagement and as a feedback loop to the growth product roadmap --- Where to find Rachel Rachel's LinkedIn Profile ---- Notion's Template Gallery Patrick references:  Word of Mouth Coefficient --- Where to find Patrick Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:43) Defining the B2C2B model at Notion and how Rachel's team approaches it  (6:27) Prioritizing channels by stage and channel across consumers and businesses  (8:27) Balancing messaging and relevance to both audiences  (9:09) The challenges with calculating LTV for the business given the land and expand type nature of the company  (10:45) Signals to use to determine customer value and the limitations of performance marketing for PLG companies  (12:10) The underlying causes of word of mouth and supercharging it through community, influencers, partners, SEO, paid media, and affiliates  (18:42) Keeping a close eye on word of mouth and its effects to the business  (19:51) Most of the customer base is outside of the US. The natural fit to APAC markets and ensuring that local context is communicated through marketing   (23:53) Pipeline management and optimization through PQAs and PQLs (26:11) Consumers are one significant way to drive customers, but not the only way. Some of the challenges with the focus on consumers and the tradeoffs with B2B capability needs  (28:28) Going deeper with the messaging dynamic and other acquisition tactics between consumers and businesses  (29:55) What most people are surprised by with Notion's success  (32:00) Land and expand opportunities between understanding usage patterns and shrinking the time between value realization  (34:11) Investing in lifecycle for onboarding, education, engagement, and expansion  (37:53) Empowering the community for experts and advocates. Inspiring Notion influencers (39:50) The structure for the lifecycle marketing team globally  (40:43) Where to find Rachel!        

Joanna is an Executive in Residence at Reforge, marketing advisor and angel investor. For over 20 years she has helped build and scale companies across a number of categories, business models, and audiences. She was previously the CMO of Skyscanner, one of the largest travel marketplaces in the world, and CMO of ClassPass, a leading health and wellness platform. We discuss:  Establishing the right brand strategy Building the foundations of leadership with the right partners  A more effective way to find the right CMO for founders and CEOs Building accountable and high performing marketing orgs --- Where to find Joanna Joanna's LinkedIn Profile --- Joanna's refers to Google's CMO Archetypes --- Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:20) Why brand strategy comes before growth  (3:51) Connecting the brand strategy to the company and product strategies  (6:24) Breaking down the components of the brand strategy  (7:10) Companies who have done brand well  (10:22) If you don't have a 10X product, you should be thinking about your brand  (11:55) The four pillars of a brand strategy  (15:25) The relationship between a marketing and product leaders (17:49) Short term and long term planning across the leadership team to sustain the growth model  (19:40) What to look for in a CMO or in a new marketing leader beyond the domains they spike on - growth, brand, or product marketing  (24:30) Why tenure among the C-level for CMOs is the shortest  (28:10) Lessons in building a great leadership team (32:06) A lack of diversity in the team is a predetermined conversation  (34:35) The X factor has more power than experience  (35:24) Org structures and when and why to restructure  (38:27) Building high performing marketing organizations the commonalities behind them  (41:40) Ensuring the right values. Culture usually comes from the founder (44:15) Where to find Joanna!                

Neal is the CMO of Consensys, a global blockchain company focused on building and scaling tools and enterprise software products powered by Ethereum. At Consensys, Neal leads the the product marketing, community advocacy, brand development, content and communications, creative, and growth teams. Prior to that, Neal was the Global Head of Consumer Marketing at Spotify.  ---- Where to find Neal:  Neal's Twitter Account Neal's LinkedIn Profile --- Consensys Research Findings:  Web3 Global Surveys  Turning users to builders --- Where to find Patrick:  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:35) The foundations of Web3 and the differences between Web3 and Web2 marketing  (6:39) The quality of the community and the product and how that drives new user acquisition   (8:21) The toolsets for acquisition, using the blockchain, introducing new projects to the user base   (11:40) Distribution through communities through live chat rooms, Twitter, Reddit, and Discord (13:21) Decentralized software services and the usage of that as a whole a a marker for the health of the space  (15:01)  Determining the effectiveness of new projects and marketing initiatives  (17:37) Composing the marketing organization at Consensys  (20:05) Managing and engaging with developer communities  (22:48) Recruiting partners and micro communities to expand reach and sense where the next beach heads are coming from  (25:45) How the marketing org at Consensys evolved to where it is today  (29:19)  Founding the marketing team with Product Marketing skillsets and embedding with product teams  (30:26) Where Web3 is headed  (34:12) Global implications and use cases outside the US  (37:15) New creator specific use cases coming in  (39:19) What's next for Consensys and looking at emerging markets  (41:17) Where to find Neal!     

Jessica is the CMO at Calendly where she leads brand awareness, creative, demand generation, and product marketing. She has nearly 20 years of marketing and leadership experience and most recently was Head of Revenue Marketing at Asana.  We talk about:  The most important variables in demand generation  How critical the relationship is between marketing and sales  Building a marketing team that's focused on impact and revenue  Becoming an effective CMO    --- Where to find Jessica Jessica's LinkedIn Profile --- Where to find Patrick Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:42) The top variables in demand gen motions  (5:56) Challenges with data on paid media and revenue  (9:04) Targeting and mapping high value customers with ad publishers (11:46) Bringing in volume and optimizing for conversions   (13:42) The importance of empathy between marketing and sales  (17:17) Everything goes through sales  (20:08) Lead scoring and where this should be developed  (21:38) Messaging consistency and specificity to audiences (24:05) The challenges of email marketing (24:55) Importance of brand in B2B  (26:49) Working with influencers  (28:06) Adjustments to becoming a CMO (30:14) Where most CMOs go wrong  (31:45) Aligning with the right C-Level partners - Product, Sales, Finance (33:27) How to make great marketers  (35:46) Focusing on revenue and conversions on as marketers  (37:07) Having tough and direct conversations to make an impact  (40:48) Optimizing for outcomes  (42:47) Where to find Jessica!       

Arthur has nearly 20 years of recruiting experience in the tech industry focused on marketing executive search. He's a partner at Charles Vernon, a boutique search firm specializing in marketing leadership roles for high growth tech companies & startups. He's worked with some of the world's leading tech brands like Affirm, Instacart, Yelp & Thumbtack, and top VCs like Sequoia and Greylock.   We talk about:  What candidates should consider when looking into a leadership role  The key things employers are looking for in vetting candidates  Effective ways to work with a hiring agency The matching process between high quality candidates and promising start-ups  ---- Where to find Arthur Arthur's LinkedIn Profile Charles Vernon Recruiting Agency --- Where to find Patrick Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:31) The current macro environment for recruiting (as of April, 2023)  (3:09) Differences between this environment and past cycles  (4:16) Types of CMOs and leaders companies are looking for today  (4:41) Growth and Product Marketing leaders are usually most in demand  (5:37) What candidates should consider when looking into companies  (7:23) What candidates get wrong and get tripped up during the interview process  (8:41) Being enthusiastic throughout the process  (9:20) Companies are looking for drivers, not those who were just in it for the ride (11:00) If you're good, we will get in touch with you  (12:00) This is all about relationships and back channels happen all the time  (13:03) Do your homework for comp (14:19) How to best work with a recruiting agency  (15:07) What CEOs and hiring leaders need to spend time up front to align on a great process (16:41) Differences between those leaders who worked out and those who didn't  (18:07) Hiring specialist marketing firms  (19:23) Going with a firm for the hiring process in kicking off a search and closing the search, not just to fill a role  (20:14) It comes down to the individual search partner regardless of firm size  (22:17) Helping companies punch above their weight to access great talent  (23:39) Representing the highest quality companies  (24:30) Why senior leadership listings are private               

Kira has led global brand teams at Notion, Gustom Brex, and Kiva. She's won awards on Adweek and she's the co-creator of Reforge's Brand Marketing program.  She talks about her experience leading the rebranding efforts at Brex where they looked to expand up market. She broke down her experiences into five areas specifically: Recognizing the need to rebrand Building a consensus across the leadership team that a change was needed Building the brand together Validating the process along the way Evaluating success  --- Where to find Kira  Kira's LinkedIn --- Kira's Brand Template on Notion Rebranding with Research --- Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn --- (2:30) The high level structure of rebranding Brex and the need to rebrand  (6:57) When to know when a rebrand is warranted  (9:38) Multiple phases of the journey and process  (13:31) Driving consensus and alignment with the right stakeholders  (16:20) Brand discussion guide and the listening tour - interviewing prospects and customers (22:34) Building the brand together (25:01) Partnering with product through the process  (26:40) Having both co-founders invested and involved from the beginning and managing them  (28:20) When they brought in an agency   (31:34) What worked and didn't work with agencies   (35:12) Validating the rebrand, ensuring they were on the right track  (37:43) The importance of developing a feedback loop  (39:03) Evaluating success, figuring out how you know it's working (41:47) How long the process lasted  (43:11) The secret weapon of leveraging research to question biases and connect back to the customer (44:40) Why brand gets a bad wrap in tech and how it's associated with growth (46:46) Where to find Kira!   

Kim was most recently the CMO at Coursera where she played an instrumental role in driving the company's revenue from $95M to over $500M in 5 years. The org she led helped shaped the brand, optimized the monetization model, and launched and expanded key initiatives globally as she helped guide the company through it's IPO. Kim is currently a startup marketing and growth advisor and board member. She specializes in marketplaces across both B2C and B2B models.  We talk about:  The strategic planning process at Coursera  Building the marketing operational structure to scale across B2C, B2B, and Partnership motions  Establishing the right culture and values  Finding 10X marketing leaders  --- Where to find Kim Kim's LinkedIn Profile --- Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (2:28) Marketing as a service to the business  (5:09) The strategic planning process at Coursera  (8:04) How the 3-year planning process started (9:45) The product-market fit sprint. Using a 6-8 week window to further validate customer hypotheses and nail the right go to market and marketing motions  (12:50) Building the right operational culture to effectively execute (15:39) When to inject the strategy and ops function  (16:58) Strategy and ops should live within Marketing (19:00) Establishing and evolving the values and culture at Coursera  (22:57) Integrating values in performance plans     (25:19) The org structure within the B2C, B2B, and Partnership focal areas  (28:30) The key variables and planning for a re-org  (32:10) Planning out hiring with other teams and regions  (34:29) Executing on company growth bets within the marketing org (37:51) Finding 10X marketing leaders (38:57) Where to find Kim!     

Jordan is the CEO and Cofounder of Previsible, a search education and consulting practice. They currently support Fortune 100 companies who investment in organic search. He was previously the CEO of Searchmetrics and the Director of SEO at eBay.  We go through:  When to and not to invest in SEO  The foundational elements  Varying approaches depending on vertical  Programmatic-led, product-led, and editorially-led approaches  Leading and lagging KPIs --- Where to find Jordan  Jordan's LinkedIn Jordan's email --- Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn --- (2:09) The impact of investing in SEO after product market fit (4:14) Market making positions for new product launches  (6:31) The foundational elements - tech stack, resources, developing the content strategy (8:49) Web stacks, and use cases for specific third party platforms  (12:08) The verticalization of SEO and the different priorities and motions that apply to them (13:32) Technical vs Content components  (14:33) Separating the strategic implementations to the core fundamentals of SEO (16:30) Programmatic-led, product-led, and editorially-led SEO  (20:25) The importance of owning the tone and voice of the content  (23:10) Content quality as the mystery meat of the space. The use social signals to determine quality (26:43) Authority scores are more for established companies. But look for resonance instead  (28:50) Leading and lagging KPIs  (32:53) Focusing on leading KPIs as an earlier staged company (33:50) Misguided decisions due to gaming backlinks (37:57) The biggest miss of all size of companies is the radical underinvestment of SEO (39:11) Where to find Jordan!            

Austin is the Head of Marketing Technology at Ramp. He was an early employee at Branch metrics and eventually built a consulting company where he worked with companies like Walmart, AirBnB, Postmates and JPMorgan on their Martech initiatives. He sold that company to mPartcle and consequently became their Executive Vice President.  In this episode, we go through:  The evolution of Martech  The core components of a Martech Stack  Differences between a B2C and a B2B stack  How to approach Martech through different stages   Ideal org structures and profiles  --- Where to find Austin Austin's LinkedIn Profile --- Things we discuss:  Reforge Martech ETL vs CDP --- Where to find Patrick Patrick's LinkedIn ---   (2:46) The evolution of Martech and it's main phases  (6:05) The core components of a Martech stack  (10:09) How the core value prop of a CDP has changed and the newer solutions of modern stacks  (14:45) What an ETL can do in lieu of a CDP   (18:31) Identifying problems before figuring out the right tools (18:58) Tooling through various company stages  (21:16) Going deeper into company stages and investments that need to be made as companies grow and scale  (25:00) Ownership especially across product, engineering, and marketing (26:26) The differences between a B2C and a B2B stack (28:57) The complexities of a B2B stack which also encapsulates B2C motions  (31:50) Using a CDP for real time data change access as opposed to using ETLs  (33:50) Slicing tool sets between pre and post conversion motions (36:40) Org structure and Martech owners in B2C and B2B orgs (40:21) The ideal profile of a person leading or in Martech  (43:23) Where to find Austin!     

Sigal was formerly the CMO of Fast Growing Trees, the worlds largest online nursery. Prior to that she held leaderships roles at Afterpay, as their VP of Growth Marketing, and at Lyft as their head of growth Marketing.  We go through:  Growth loops, retaining and engaging valuable users  What it means to be a growth CMO  The impact of cross functional org structures Deciphering between valuable users and those who came in for other promotional reasons The importance of asking "why?" rather than only using a data driven approach    --- Where to find Sigal Sigal's LinkedIn Profile Email: sigalgrowthcmo@gmail.com  ---  Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn Profile --- (3:25) Developing a fundamental understanding of the healthy user experience  (9:30) How healthy users are defined  (12:14) Getting users to an aha moment and who to focus on to prevent churn  (18:33) How to approach churn prevention. The propensity of a user to be the right fit to the product   (20:24) Determining effectiveness and approaching measurement and the layers of higher level to tactical level to derive impact    (26:26) Sustainable feedback and growth loops. What it means to be a growth oriented CMO   (31:27) Starting with a business problem and solving for growth challenges cross functionally across brand, product, and growth at Afterpay  (39:08) Getting the org structure out of the way for driver growth at Lyft. Having cross functional teams owns a KPI  (44:20) Working with pod structures at Lyft and sponsors of cross functional teams at Afterpay  (46:18) People like talking about themselves. Advice on understanding audience motivations  (50:37) Where to find Sigal!   

Mary is an accomplished product marketing leader and author of The Pocket Guide To Product Launches. She's held marketing leadership roles at Adobe, Google, AdRoll and other startups. She is also the co-creator of a new course with Reforge and hosts the popular Women In Product Marketing podcast.   We go through:  The core components of a Go To Market Strategy  Splitting up different launch tiers  Audience persona definitions  Defining positioning across multiple teams  Why it's important to derive shared goals The 10% internal communications rule   --- Where to find Mary:  Mary's LinkedIn Profile Mary's Twitter Profile The Pocket Guide to Product Launches --- Where to find Patrick  Patrick's LinkedIn --- (2:28) The main components of a Go To Market strategy  (4:10) Variables to consider before launch (6:59) When to separate the shipping moment and the launch moment (9:22) Defining the different launch tiers (14:09) Examples of the different tiers  (18:05) Developing personas and jobs to be done to define target audiences  (23:55) Getting the right group together to develop customer journey mapping  (26:12) Ensuring the right teams are represented  (27:01) The right way to approach positioning  (30:50) Partnership with the product team at the earliest stages of development  (33:58) Goals, metrics, and effectiveness  (37:29) Using a northstar goal to inform downstream KPIs (40:30) Shared goals and outcomes across teams  (42:20) The 10% rule and an internal go to market plan  (44:19) Where to find Mary!                

Michael is the co-founder and co-CEO of a startup called Recast, a service that develops Media Mix Modeling for consumer products and services. They also have a great blog on all things measurement which is linked below. Michael spoke about the changing measurement needs of companies as they scale spend, the discipline around ensuring you have your ROI and payback periods defined before you go out and measure, and some specific challenges with only using  multi-touch attribution and/or incrementality to inform approach. He also provides a great perspective on how to gauge the effectiveness of brand advertising.   --- Where to find Michael and the Recast blog https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-the-data-guy-kaminsky/ https://twitter.com/Mike_Kaminsky https://getrecast.com/blog/ https://getrecast.com/attribution-stack/ https://getrecast.com/long-term-brand/ --- Where to find Patrick  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (2:32) Measurement approaches by company stage (5:24) Starting with unit economics and cash position  (7:41) Going from publisher reported to incrementality to media mix modeling   (11:49) Approaching audience overlaps  (14:35) The flaws and limitations of Multi Touch Attribution (17:38) Operationalizing the impact of incrementality and its shortcomings (22:44) Being thoughtful and robust around multipliers  (25:37) How to triangulate attribution the right way  (29:53) The current methodologies of Media Mix Modeling (33:49) How the MMM model works (38:05) Measuring brand advertising  (41:07) The relationship between short term and long term impact (42:36) Optimizing for conversions  (45:42) How to find Michael!              

Jenna is the CMO of IPSY, a direct to consumer business which happens to be the largest beauty subscription brand in the world. Prior to that, she was the CMO for 7 for all mankind, the denim brand, and was recognized as Forbes top 50 Entrepreneurial CMOs.  Jenna talks about how the creator economy and developing a tiered approach with influencers has been a significant growth driver for IPSY. She goes into the KPIs that are important to them like Earned Media Value and how that ties to organic traffic which is a direct source for acquisition and how these partnerships serve as a primary communication vehicle for product announcements and earned media to drive existing subscriber AOV. One of the sources IPSY has at their disposal is an influencer network that reaches north of 20M brand proponents. Not only do they have distribution at scale, but the brands and personalities of their creators, also then drive even more brand loyalty. So it's two feedback loops. One for distribution and another for brand sentiment.  --- Where to find Jenna:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennahabayeb/ Where to find Patrick:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- Sources we discuss: https://www.tribedynamics.com/blog/earned-media-value https://www.ipsy.com/about --- (2:42) A description of IPSY as a business and when it got started    (4:14) Brand Partnerships as a supply source of products, Marketing Partnerships for amplification, and Creator Partnerships (7:21) The differences between Marketing Partnerships and Creator Partnerships (9:11) How IPSY got started building their creator economy  (11:44) Breaking down the creator economy into three tiers  (16:35) Using Earned Media Value to determine effectiveness (19:34) Impacting new subs and driving engagement  (21:29) Building non-transactional and authentic relationships with creators  (24:03) The emergence of de-influencing  (25:26) Using the community and customer forums for real time feedback and establishing deeper relationships     (28:26) How the internal teams leading creators, the community, and paid acquisition work with each other (30:25) How brands and companies can get started with a strong influencer strategy and build larger and stickier communities  (33:51) Defining effectiveness by aligning to business objectives  (37:14) Investment approach for influencers and tying to the right KPIs (38:45) Starting small and thinking about creators as partners in both distribution and content                   

Josh has been a leader at some of the biggest brands in technology like Twitter, YouTube, Wealthfront and was most recently the CMO of Yext. He moonlights in education, having taught at Stanford's graduate school of business and is a long-time faculty member of Northwestern's Medill School of Journalism. He is also one of the creators of the Brand Marketing program at Reforge. Josh and I talked about Brand and what that means in the context of Marketing. Josh talks about how he differentiates the Brand Strategy from Brand Advertising and Brand Expression and why that's important. I enjoyed this conversation because Josh provided some context into how to think about Brand as not just as a function of advertising, but as an approach to ensuring consistency across all touchpoints including product, customer service and marketing. --- Where to find Josh: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshgrau/ https://twitter.com/grauface joshgrau.com Where to find Patrick:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- Sources we talk about:  https://www.reforge.com/previews/growth/brand-strategy-development --- (3:00) Why Josh hates the question around whether he's a brand based or a performance based marketing leader (6:17) Requiring a holistic approach to marketing to ensure a consistency (7:51) Brand isn't just top of funnel advertising and the reductive nature of that definition (10:14) A holistic perspective on total experience (11:10) The components of a brand strategy and going beyond just its expressive nature (15:19) The brand architecture and how it supports retained and engaged customers (18:03) Aligning the company objectives, the vision, and how to bring the brand to life for the customer (21:17) The longer and shorter term variables that adjust to the changing needs of the customers (23:18) Consistency across all touch points including product and customer service (26:29) How to start, where to look, and running a listening tour internally and externally (30:08) Governance across multiple teams and ensuring the brand strategy doesn't get shelved (34:44) Brand expressions and how this informs product marketing and growth marketing (36:10) How to think about measuring the brand strategy (38:38) How to find Josh!    

Mark is an operating partner at HIG capital, an investment firm focused on global alternative assets with over 150 portfolio companies, which he supports with marketing and digital strategies. Prior to that, Mark was the VP of Marketing at Credit Karma where he helped scale them from 40M members to 100M members. Mark talks about the dynamics of performance media and lifecycle marketing. He provided his thoughts on what's going on in the current landscape of paid media, he talks about his definitions of the variables that make up unit economics, customer lifetime value, customer acquisition costs, and payback period, and then we dive into how he's structured his teams around lifecycle marketing. We end the conversation around his preferences for martech and tooling. --- Where to find Mark:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/markfiske/ https://twitter.com/thefiske https://www.thefiske.com/ Where to find Patrick:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/pcmoran/ --- (02:38) Why Google and Facebook have become less efficient over the last few years (05:21) Understanding conversion signals to inform the algorithms   (06:29) Training the algorithm with the variety of signals to send back and channel diversification (08:10) Channel understanding and the operational implications (09:51) Prioritization and risk adjusting initiatives  (12:21) Looking at granularity, incrementality, and diminishing returns to optimize for profitability  (15:16) Defining LTV and CAC (18:51) Using a payback window relative to what the business is optimizing for  (21:17) Budgeting for experimentation   (24:10) Building great lifecycle marketing teams (26:04) Organizational structures for lifecycle marketing and using cross functional pods  (29:09) Managing the hierarchy of KPIs  (32:32) Segmentation, parameters, and use cases to inform personalization approaches  (34:48) Tooling and philosophy on tech stack  (37:45) How to find Mark!      

I've been a marketer in technology and software for over a decade at this point. A big learning unlock for me has been in connecting with great marketing leaders behind some truly amazing technology companies to get a sense for the problems and challenges they've faced and how they've addressed them. What I hope to do with this podcast is to expose those conversations to all of you to hopefully provide you with a wide perspective of actual approaches, frameworks, perspectives, and advice from some of the best out there. I plan to start covering marketing specific topics across various industries like consumer, b2b, and b2b2bc. But I also intend to eventually cover how marketing leaders in technology and software across the world are addressing their challenges, specifically leaders in Latin America, Europe, Africa, and the various parts of Asia.   I hope you find value in this podcast or even in just one episode. I'll be happy either way! But I hope you're also patient with me as I try to figure out how to deliver the most helpful episodes to you. To kick things off, I'm going to cover areas like growth marketing, brand strategies, influencer strategies, measurement, content marketing, martech, SEO, product marketing, and org design from exceptional marketing leaders who are currently leading or have led marketing teams at companies like Credit Karma, Wealthfront, Notion, Ipsy, Coursera, eBay, and Ramp to name a few. If this is interesting to you, please subscribe and let me know what you think. Thank you so much.       Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.