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Send us Fan MailApple's Worldwide Developers Conference just happened - and the message for home builders is bigger than most people realize. In this solo episode, Anya Chrisanthon - CCO at Anewgo - breaks down the biggest announcements from WWDC 2026 and translates them into plain language for home builder sales and marketing leaders.Siri goes agentic Apple rebuilt Siri from the ground up - powered by Google's Gemini and Apple's own on-device models. The new Siri doesn't just answer questions. It takes actions across apps on behalf of the user. Composing emails, managing files, performing multi-step tasks without manual navigation. The home buying version of this - scheduling tours, requesting brochures, getting answers about a specific floor plan - is coming. The builders whose digital presence is ready for it will have a significant advantage.Visual Intelligence in the Camera app Apple introduced a dedicated Siri mode inside the camera app. A buyer standing in front of your model home points their camera at the exterior - and Siri tells them the elevation, color scheme, community, and starting price if that information is structured and accessible online. Apple just built the infrastructure for a visual AI layer that sits on top of every physical space a buyer walks into. That changes what a model home experience looks like.The hidden feature Apple didn't announce After the keynote, developers discovered a hidden Extensions framework in the iOS 27 developer beta that lets users swap ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini inside Siri - infrastructure Apple built but chose not to announce. Apple is hedging. Siri becomes the container. The AI model underneath can be whatever the user prefers. When a buyer asks their phone about your homes, it might be Siri answering. Or ChatGPT through Siri. Or Claude. Or Gemini. If your digital presence doesn't give any of those AI systems enough specific, accurate, structured information to answer with confidence - you're not in that conversation. This is exactly why AEO matters across all platforms, not just one.Search gets faster Apple rebuilt the foundation of search across Spotlight, Mail, and Photos - and the new infrastructure indexes new files and data almost immediately. The lag between publishing content and having it surfaced by AI systems is closing. A community page that hasn't been updated in six months is going to look stale in a way it never did before.
Becky Ykema and Jason Miller - Our very own Becky Ykema has gathered up years of experience from different church contexts to write a book that's full of wisdom. Her new work, Composing Church, encourages us in what can happen when we leave behind the image management and performance pressure and reclaim a space to be with God and one another. In our gatherings this week, our lead pastor, Jason, sat down with Becky to draw out the stories and insights she shares in her book. If you'd like to get a copy, find it on Amazon. What's Happening Listen to the conversation between Jason and Notre Dame Executive Vice President Shannon Cullinan about the developments downtown. You can find it on Tuesday, June 16, on our website or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Join us in observing a Sabbath Sunday on July 5th. For more information about why we take a Sunday off, and other details, head to our website. Support the ongoing work of SBCC by giving to the general fund. South Bend City Church is a 501(c)3 tax-exempt organization. All donations are tax-deductible. Make sure to select the correct fund when giving.
Finneas stops by to discuss taking on a new challenge as composer for season 2 of the hit Netflix series ‘Beef.' Also, celebrity hairstylist Chris McMillan shares tips and tricks for achieving some of the iconic hairstyles he has created for his most famous clients. And, Jane Seymour joins to discuss returning for the new season of her mystery series ‘Harry Wild.'` Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Despite his reputation as “the safe Beatle,” Paul McCartney was a badass. He took wild artistic risks, rubbed elbows with truly dangerous characters and because of his crimes, did hard time in one of the world’s most notorious prisons. His public spats with Beatles bandmate John Lennon are the stuff of legend, as is the “Paul is dead” conspiracy at the end of their time together as a band, but the truth may be even stranger. This episode was originally published on June 15, 2021. To see the full list of contributors, see the show notes at www.disgracelandpod.com. To listen to Disgraceland ad free and get access to a monthly exclusive episode, weekly bonus content and more, become a Disgraceland All Access member at disgracelandpod.com/membership. Sign up for our newsletter and get the inside dirt on events, merch and other awesomeness - GET THE NEWSLETTER Follow Jake and DISGRACELAND: Instagram YouTube X (formerly Twitter) Facebook Fan Group TikTok See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Today, we're putting The Tonearm's needle on Stephen Emmer, a Dutch composer and musician based in Amsterdam. Stephen came up in the late 70s post-punk underground, and his band Minny Pops was the first international act signed to Factory Records. He is a curious genre-explorer who has worked with Lou Reed, Chaka Khan, Tony Visconti, Trevor Horn, Flood, and many others.His latest album, Asymmetrical Dot, is a chamber work rooted in his Dutch-Indonesian heritage, built around sustained tones, wordless vocals, vibraphone, and strings. The record came out of a year when his mother died, and his first grandson was born, and the contracting themes of grief and arrival appear throughout the work.We cover the album, his hearing loss, and why he walked away from commercial work to make the most personal music of his career.(The musical excerpts heard in the interview are from Stephen Emmer's Asymmetrical Dot)—Dig Deeper• Artist and Albums:Visit Stephen Emmer at stephenemmer.com and follow him on Bluesky, Instagram, and YouTubePurchase Stephen Emmer's album Asymmetrical Dot from Bandcamp or Qobuz and listen on your streaming platform of choiceThe two previous installments in the 'introspective trilogy': Maison Melody (2020) and Mt. Mundane (2024)• Key Collaborators:Tony Visconti — Producer of Recitement; longtime producer of David BowieBeth Hirsch — Vocalist and co-writer on Asymmetrical Dot, Track 5; best known for AIR's Moon SafariFernando Aponte — Grammy-winning mixing engineer, HoustonEverton Nelson — Concertmaster and violinist; has performed with the LSO, BBC Concert Orchestra, and on recordings for Radiohead, U2, and Paul McCartneyPatricia Sullivan — Mastering engineer at Bernie Grundman Mastering, Los Angeles• *Recitement* and Its Voices:Recitement — Emmer's 2007 spoken-word album, produced by Tony Visconti.Ken Nordine — Voice-over artist and "Word Jazz" pioneer; voiced "Absolutely Grey" on RecitementColors — Ken Nordine's 1966 album, originally commissioned as radio spots for the Fuller Paint CompanyLou Reed — Rock musician and poet; voiced "Passengers" on RecitementAllen Ginsberg — Beat poet; voiced "Disconnected" on RecitementRichard Burton — Welsh actor; voiced "The Leaden Echo" and "Boy with a Cart" on Recitement• Musical Influences and References:Gamelan — Traditional Indonesian percussion ensemble; central to the sonic concept of Asymmetrical DotDave Brubeck — American jazz pianist; one of the first musicians Emmer heard as a child, via his mother's ballet teachingHeitor Villa-Lobos — Brazilian composer; among the diverse influences Emmer's mother brought to her ballet classesClaude Debussy and Gamelan — Referenced by Emmer as a historical predecessor in integrating gamelan into Western composition• Contextual References:Holiday on Ice — International touring ice show for which Emmer served as music directorMotörhead — British heavy metal band; Emmer's hearing damage traces to a backstage encounter with their sound systemCharles Ives — American modernist composer who ran a successful insurance business alongside his musical career; referenced in the episode's discussion of portfolio careersAmbon, Indonesia — Island in the Maluku province of Indonesia, historically known as Amboina; birthplace of Emmer's mother and inspiration for the album's track "Amboina (for Roekie Aronds)"—Dig into this episode's complete show notes at podcast.thetonearm.com—• Did you enjoy this episode? Please share it with a friend! You can also rate The Tonearm ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. • Subscribe! Be the first to check out each new episode of The Tonearm in your podcast app of choice. • Looking for more? Visit podcast.thetonearm.com for bonus content, web-only interviews + features, and the Talk Of The Tonearm email newsletter. You can also follow us on Bluesky, Mastodon, YouTube, and LinkedIn. • Be sure to bookmark our online magazine, The Tonearm! → thetonearm.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Today, we're putting The Tonearm's needle on Stephen Emmer, a Dutch composer and musician based in Amsterdam. Stephen came up in the late 70s post-punk underground, and his band Minny Pops was the first international act signed to Factory Records. He is a curious genre-explorer who has worked with Lou Reed, Chaka Khan, Tony Visconti, Trevor Horn, Flood, and many others.His latest album, Asymmetrical Dot, is a chamber work rooted in his Dutch-Indonesian heritage, built around sustained tones, wordless vocals, vibraphone, and strings. The record came out of a year when his mother died, and his first grandson was born, and the contracting themes of grief and arrival appear throughout the work.We cover the album, his hearing loss, and why he walked away from commercial work to make the most personal music of his career.(The musical excerpts heard in the interview are from Stephen Emmer's Asymmetrical Dot)—Dig Deeper• Artist and Albums:Visit Stephen Emmer at stephenemmer.com and follow him on Bluesky, Instagram, and YouTubePurchase Stephen Emmer's album Asymmetrical Dot from Bandcamp or Qobuz and listen on your streaming platform of choiceThe two previous installments in the 'introspective trilogy': Maison Melody (2020) and Mt. Mundane (2024)• Key Collaborators:Tony Visconti — Producer of Recitement; longtime producer of David BowieBeth Hirsch — Vocalist and co-writer on Asymmetrical Dot, Track 5; best known for AIR's Moon SafariFernando Aponte — Grammy-winning mixing engineer, HoustonEverton Nelson — Concertmaster and violinist; has performed with the LSO, BBC Concert Orchestra, and on recordings for Radiohead, U2, and Paul McCartneyPatricia Sullivan — Mastering engineer at Bernie Grundman Mastering, Los Angeles• *Recitement* and Its Voices:Recitement — Emmer's 2007 spoken-word album, produced by Tony Visconti.Ken Nordine — Voice-over artist and "Word Jazz" pioneer; voiced "Absolutely Grey" on RecitementColors — Ken Nordine's 1966 album, originally commissioned as radio spots for the Fuller Paint CompanyLou Reed — Rock musician and poet; voiced "Passengers" on RecitementAllen Ginsberg — Beat poet; voiced "Disconnected" on RecitementRichard Burton — Welsh actor; voiced "The Leaden Echo" and "Boy with a Cart" on Recitement• Musical Influences and References:Gamelan — Traditional Indonesian percussion ensemble; central to the sonic concept of Asymmetrical DotDave Brubeck — American jazz pianist; one of the first musicians Emmer heard as a child, via his mother's ballet teachingHeitor Villa-Lobos — Brazilian composer; among the diverse influences Emmer's mother brought to her ballet classesClaude Debussy and Gamelan — Referenced by Emmer as a historical predecessor in integrating gamelan into Western composition• Contextual References:Holiday on Ice — International touring ice show for which Emmer served as music directorMotörhead — British heavy metal band; Emmer's hearing damage traces to a backstage encounter with their sound systemCharles Ives — American modernist composer who ran a successful insurance business alongside his musical career; referenced in the episode's discussion of portfolio careersAmbon, Indonesia — Island in the Maluku province of Indonesia, historically known as Amboina; birthplace of Emmer's mother and inspiration for the album's track "Amboina (for Roekie Aronds)"—Dig into this episode's complete show notes at podcast.thetonearm.com—• Did you enjoy this episode? Please share it with a friend! You can also rate The Tonearm ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts. • Subscribe! Be the first to check out each new episode of The Tonearm in your podcast app of choice. • Looking for more? Visit podcast.thetonearm.com for bonus content, web-only interviews + features, and the Talk Of The Tonearm email newsletter. You can also follow us on Bluesky, Mastodon, YouTube, and LinkedIn. • Be sure to bookmark our online magazine, The Tonearm! → thetonearm.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
One of the most competitive sides of the games industry is music composition. There are so many talented musicians and not enough games for them all, so it says a lot about the select few who can make a full-time career out of it. Fat Bard is one of those examples, and being hot off the heels of composing the Bubsy 4D OST, there was no better time to have them on to discuss their journey and the wide range of titles they've contributed to. The duo, Patrick Crecelius and Zach Fendelman, have been collaborating for about 15 years now, and we cover quite a lot, including some real-time revelations and work on a previous Atari project. YouTube: https://youtu.be/QYIhAinNMOM Bubsy 4D OST Available NOW! https://store.steampowered.com/app/4788190/Bubsy_4D_Soundtrack__Art_Book/ Bubsy 4D is OUT NOW! Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/3237970/Bubsy_4D/ Epic: https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/p/bubsy-4d-b4b94f GoG: https://www.gog.com/en/game/bubsy_4d PlayStation: https://store.playstation.com/en-us/concept/10016621/ Xbox: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/store/bubsy-4d/9P82VZJSZWGS Switch 2: https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/bubsy-4d-switch-2/ Switch: https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/bubsy-4d-switch/ Physical: https://atari.com/products/bubsy-4d-deluxe-physical-edition?variant=47396647731365 Learn about Toy Story: Retro Roundup and Toy Story 3 Complete Edition https://atari.com/pages/toy-story Join the Atari Club on Discord: https://discord.gg/atariclub Follow us: Atari: X: https://x.com/atari BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/atari.com Fat Bard: X: https://www.x.com/Fat_Bard BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/fatbard.com Zach: https://www.instagram.com/zach.massacre/ Lobby Boxer: https://www.instagram.com/lobbyboxer/?hl=en Jason Polansky: https://bsky.app/profile/jaysofdoom.bsky.social
In the latest Beyond the Bank, Brad spends some time with Lee County Middle West Band Director, Lee County High Assistant Director and Lee County 2025-26 Teacher of the Year Will Smith, to learn more about his lifelong passion for music, finding his community through band, and his fierce desire to ensure future generations can experience art, community and love through his music program.
For 45 years, George Palmer harboured a secret. He spent every spare moment composing classical music, and then shoving his scores in his bottom drawer. Until one day, almost by pure chance, that music saw the light of day.As a young man, George had dreams of becoming a renowned classical music composer, but when he walked into university, he didn't feel like he belonged in the music department.George left after his first week, and followed a school friend into the law department.At first, George was not inspired by the law, but he ended up falling in love with the human side of the justice system.For the next 45 years, he climbed the ranks from barrister, to Queen's Counsel, and finally to judge in the NSW Supreme Court, where he had ultimate responsibility for all adoptions in the state.But through all those years in public life, George had a secret "vice".Every spare moment he had was spent at his piano, scribbling down choral works and orchestral scores that he never intended anyone to see or hear.He never spoke about composing with his colleagues, friends or family, until one day George's talents were uncovered through chance and tragedy.George's latest work The Drover's Wife - The Opera is playing at Brisbane's QPAC until 22 May, and then will be staged at Sydney's Opera House in August, 2026.This episode of Conversations was produced by Meggie Morris. Executive Producer is Eliza Kirsch.It explores World War Two, family origin stories, spies, British intelligence, hearing loss, late in life career changes, second career, protective list, adoption, foster care, Supreme Court, legal system, justice system, judicial system, commercial law, Beethoven, Bach, Wagner, opera, contemporary classical music, contemporary Australian composers, Indigenous stories, Leah Purcell, stage adaptations, books, writing.
On this episode of the Hayek Program Podcast, Peter Boettke and Liya Palagashvili reflect on her journey from undergraduate student organizer to public intellectual, policy analyst, and Director of the Labor Policy Project. They discuss how Liya has approached her career with a startup mindset — exploring her work on the gig economy and portable benefits to create more dynamic and resilient labor markets. Along the way, they reflect on the importance of mentorship, “failing fast,” and the tension between holding a strong vision while remaining open to new evidence.Dr. Liya Palagashvili is a Senior Research Fellow and Director of the Labor Policy Project at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University and an alum of the Mercatus PhD Fellowship. Her research focuses on labor regulations, the gig economy, and the changing nature of work. She regularly writes for her Substack, Labor Market Matters.**This episode was recorded on March 31, 2026**Show Notes:Mary Catherine Bateson, Composing a Life (Grove Press, 2001)Casey B. Mulligan, The Redistribution Recession: How Labor Market Distortions Contracted the Economy (Oxford University Press, 2014)Edited by Richard A. Epstein, Mario J. Rizzo, and Liya Palagashvili, The Routledge Handbook of Classical Liberalism (Routledge, 2026)Angela Duckworth, Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance (Scribner, 2016)ParentDataIf you like the show, please subscribe, leave a 5-star review, and tell others about the show! We're available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, and wherever you get your podcasts.Check out our other podcast from the Hayek Program! Virtual Sentiments is a podcast in which political theorist Kristen Collins interviews scholars and practitioners grappling with pressing problems in political economy with an eye to the past. Subscribe today!Follow the Hayek Program on Twitter: @HayekProgramFollow the Mercatus Center on Twitter: @mercatusCC Music: Twisterium
https://www.skool.com/circle-of-interval-magicians/about In this episode, Frank explores how early self-judgment can quietly shut down your creative flow. By allowing your first ideas to be rough and unfinished, you create space for momentum, connection, and playful exploration. The focus shifts from proving something to simply building something, helping you reconnect with a more natural and enjoyable composing process.
Lords: Nathan https://store.steampowered.com/app/2976260/ChainStaff/ Robb https://store.steampowered.com/app/880930/Cyberganked/ Topics: I got pulled into the world of Eurorack modular synthesizers and now I'm finding myself trying to make cogent arguments for bringing uranium ore into the household. Ectoparasites Stairs are the driving of walking The Beaufort Wind Scale, found by nontanne https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-uploads-2024/images/3/3597ddeb-e52e-4cda-a59c-c64600489fea/c8PXM396.jpg Microtopics: Year 14 of Cyberganked development. Cryptozookeeper. Struggling to play Yankee Doodle Dandy because the piano teacher doesn't want to hear your rendition of Axel F. Being hit up for $25 by the state. A text adventure with little pictures. Composing your 3D scene using pictures you took at the Denver haunted house your friend runs. Including an in-game explanation for why you chose to use the CGA colors. Playing TXT World and wondering "why would anyone make a game that looks like that?" How do you afford to take seven years to make a game? Finagling money out of various governments during COVID. Turning off the fish so that you can see the cat. Spending thousands of dollars to go to GDC and pitch your game to publishers and finding no takers because your game isn't a roguelike or a deck builder. Financial solvency isn't everything it's cracked up to be! Existing as a person on earth and being as old as possible. Life hacks for making your publisher go out of business. A spreadsheet of 450 game publishers that existed in 2023 whereas now there's just Epic and Roblox. Chainsaws and rocket launchers and other things you have in your front yard. Chainsaws vs. Chainstaffs. Measuring the IQ of every single Topic Lords listener. Asking your artist to make it 10% grosser. I know you have a good working relationship with your artist, but wouldn't you have had a better time alone in a dark room making bullshit with stable diffusion? The Bloodlust Software art style. Showing your four year old nephew how to throw a spear as Scorpion, then spending the rest of the afternoon shouting "get over here!" at each other. Your Eurorack habit leading you to import uranium. So-called "synthesizer music." Shitpost Eurorack Modules. Enriching uranium. Talking to everyone about the uranium-based Eurorack module you want to buy in order to shift the Overton Window until buying the uranium-based Eurorack module seems totally normal. Making the most incredible techno everyone's ever heard before dying of radiation poisoning, like Marie Curie. What the Moog Modular would be like if Bob Moog only designed shitpost modules. The three reasons to buy a hardware synthesizer. Making art on the same device you use to doom scroll. Sitting there with a jeweler's screwdriver trying to tune your synthesizer. Coming on Topic Lords to declare that you're not a pervert. Deckard's Dream. Spending $5000 on a new synthesizer, making one song, and selling it for 75 cents on Bandcamp. Making things go twang in the 70s. The kind of parasites Slimer would have. Fixing a toilet in space. Tongue-eating isopods. Eating a tongue and then becoming the tongue. You are what you eat! Making Elevator Action and then getting in a multi-floor shootout in an office building. Alpha Gal, the matriarch that makes you allergic to beef. Teaming up with the Kool-Aid Man to fight the tick that makes you allergic to the color red. A floor except every step you take is higher than the last and after you take a few steps you're way up in the air. The accident-per-mile-traveled for stairs. How your family reacts the second time you fall down the stairs. What a caveman would think of stairs. What simple machine a staircase is. Hiding from the Dalek on the second floor because Daleks don't understand desires. Umbrellas difficult to use. A poem that came from the sea. Might Order an Extra Mango Lassi. Whether the scoville scale is logarithmic. Arguing against preventing forest forest. Bringing a machete to the farmer's market because what are the chances there are two machetes at the farmer's market? Sea Heaps Up. Fresh Gale vs. Whole Gale. Never having been outside in the wind but trying to guess what happens in a moderate gale. Taking a seven foot Chainstaff to MAGFest. 3D printing a giant spear for your Hornet costume. Sign-twirling your seven foot bone spear and terrifying all the MAGFest attendees.
Today, The Tonearm's needle lands on composer and avid birdwatcher Maria Schneider.Few composers working today have Maria Schneider's range. She holds seven Grammy Awards, was named an NEA Jazz Master, and this year took home the Rolf Schock Prize in Musical Arts, one of the most prestigious honors in the field.Maria Schneider joins the podcast to talk about American Crow, her recent EP that uses jazz to make a case for something we've mostly lost, the ability to actually listen to each other. The music moves from distressed Americana into something quiet and more human, a sound Schneider connects to her Midwestern childhood, when disagreement didn't have to mean war.Maria's here to talk about the record, what jazz improvisation has to teach a fractured society, and more.(The musical excerpts heard in the interview are from Maria Schneider's American Crow)—Dig DeeperArtist and EPVisit Maria Schneider at mariaschneider.com and follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTubePurchase Maria Schneider's American Crow EP from ArtistShareWatch American Crow: A Narrative in Notes and Frames — the full longform music video, free on YouTubeSelected DiscographyData Lords (ArtistShare, 2020) — Pulitzer Prize Finalist; two Grammy Awards; the double album that precedes and informs American CrowSky Blue (ArtistShare, 2007) — includes "Sky Blue," discussed at length in this episodeEvanescence (Enja, 1994) — Schneider's debut; features "Wyrgly" and "Dance You Monster to My Soft Song," both favored by David BowieEnsemble Members and CollaboratorsDonny McCaslin — tenor saxophonist; featured throughout the conversation; also Bowie's Blackstar bandleaderDonny McCaslin on The TonearmBen Monder — guitarist; featured soloist on Data LordsMike Rodriguez — trumpeter; featured soloist on American CrowJeff Miles — guitarist; featured on "A World Lost" on the American Crow EPGary Versace — pianist; longtime Schneider Orchestra member; on faculty at Eastman School of MusicBob Brookmeyer (1929–2011) — valve trombonist and arranger; Schneider's mentor; his critique of "Green Piece" is discussed in this episodeFrank Kimbrough (1956–2021) — pianist; longtime Schneider Orchestra member; referenced in the discussion of "Thompson Fields"Books ReferencedThe Art Spirit by Robert Henri — the key artistic text Schneider returns to when discussing how music transmits lived experience to an audienceFootprints: The Life and Work of Wayne Shorter by Michelle Mercer — Mercer reviewed a live performance of "American Crow" in Call and Response, quoted in this episode and in the press releaseBirdingMerlin Bird ID app — the free sound- and photo-identification app from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, enthusiastically endorsed by both Schneider and LawrenceCornell Lab of Ornithology — the institution behind Merlin and one of the world's leading centers for ornithological research and citizen scienceThe David Bowie ConnectionBlackstar (Columbia, 2016) — Bowie's final studio album, featuring McCaslin's band and Schneider's arrangement of "Sue (Or in a Season of Crime)," which won a GrammyDonny McCaslin on the Blackstar collaboration — background on McCaslin's role in Bowie's final project—Dig into this episode's complete show notes at podcast.thetonearm.com—• Did you enjoy this episode? Please share it with a friend! You can also rate The Tonearm ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.• Subscribe! Be the first to check out each new episode of The Tonearm in your podcast app of choice.• Looking for more? Visit podcast.thetonearm.com for bonus content, web-only interviews + features, and the Talk Of The Tonearm email newsletter. You can also follow us on Bluesky, Mastodon, YouTube, and LinkedIn.• Be sure to bookmark our online magazine, The Tonearm! → thetonearm.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Today, The Tonearm's needle lands on composer and avid birdwatcher Maria Schneider.Few composers working today have Maria Schneider's range. She holds seven Grammy Awards, was named an NEA Jazz Master, and this year took home the Rolf Schock Prize in Musical Arts, one of the most prestigious honors in the field.Maria Schneider joins the podcast to talk about American Crow, her recent EP that uses jazz to make a case for something we've mostly lost, the ability to actually listen to each other. The music moves from distressed Americana into something quiet and more human, a sound Schneider connects to her Midwestern childhood, when disagreement didn't have to mean war.Maria's here to talk about the record, what jazz improvisation has to teach a fractured society, and more.(The musical excerpts heard in the interview are from Maria Schneider's American Crow)—Dig DeeperArtist and EPVisit Maria Schneider at mariaschneider.com and follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTubePurchase Maria Schneider's American Crow EP from ArtistShareWatch American Crow: A Narrative in Notes and Frames — the full longform music video, free on YouTubeSelected DiscographyData Lords (ArtistShare, 2020) — Pulitzer Prize Finalist; two Grammy Awards; the double album that precedes and informs American CrowSky Blue (ArtistShare, 2007) — includes "Sky Blue," discussed at length in this episodeEvanescence (Enja, 1994) — Schneider's debut; features "Wyrgly" and "Dance You Monster to My Soft Song," both favored by David BowieEnsemble Members and CollaboratorsDonny McCaslin — tenor saxophonist; featured throughout the conversation; also Bowie's Blackstar bandleaderDonny McCaslin on The TonearmBen Monder — guitarist; featured soloist on Data LordsMike Rodriguez — trumpeter; featured soloist on American CrowJeff Miles — guitarist; featured on "A World Lost" on the American Crow EPGary Versace — pianist; longtime Schneider Orchestra member; on faculty at Eastman School of MusicBob Brookmeyer (1929–2011) — valve trombonist and arranger; Schneider's mentor; his critique of "Green Piece" is discussed in this episodeFrank Kimbrough (1956–2021) — pianist; longtime Schneider Orchestra member; referenced in the discussion of "Thompson Fields"Books ReferencedThe Art Spirit by Robert Henri — the key artistic text Schneider returns to when discussing how music transmits lived experience to an audienceFootprints: The Life and Work of Wayne Shorter by Michelle Mercer — Mercer reviewed a live performance of "American Crow" in Call and Response, quoted in this episode and in the press releaseBirdingMerlin Bird ID app — the free sound- and photo-identification app from the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, enthusiastically endorsed by both Schneider and LawrenceCornell Lab of Ornithology — the institution behind Merlin and one of the world's leading centers for ornithological research and citizen scienceThe David Bowie ConnectionBlackstar (Columbia, 2016) — Bowie's final studio album, featuring McCaslin's band and Schneider's arrangement of "Sue (Or in a Season of Crime)," which won a GrammyDonny McCaslin on the Blackstar collaboration — background on McCaslin's role in Bowie's final project—Dig into this episode's complete show notes at podcast.thetonearm.com—• Did you enjoy this episode? Please share it with a friend! You can also rate The Tonearm ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ and leave a review on Apple Podcasts.• Subscribe! Be the first to check out each new episode of The Tonearm in your podcast app of choice.• Looking for more? Visit podcast.thetonearm.com for bonus content, web-only interviews + features, and the Talk Of The Tonearm email newsletter. You can also follow us on Bluesky, Mastodon, YouTube, and LinkedIn.• Be sure to bookmark our online magazine, The Tonearm! → thetonearm.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
https://www.skool.com/circle-of-interval-magicians/about In this episode, I explore the hidden limitations of composing in isolation and how it can slow down your creative growth. I share why getting feedback and being part of a community can accelerate your progress, help you spot patterns faster, and make better creative decisions. The key idea is simple: growth doesn't just come from doing more, but from seeing more.
One thing that makes the new documentary film The Story of Everything so stunning is the inspired musical score written for it. On this ID The Future, host Andrew McDiarmid welcomes composer, producer, and arranger Hannah Parrott to discuss her experiencing of putting the cosmos to music, from the farthest galaxies to the inner recesses of the cell. The movie, showing in theaters for one week only (April 30 - May 6, 2026) is a cinematic exploration of the cosmos that unpacks three scientific discoveries of the last century that reveal mind and purpose behind the universe. In this conversation, Hannah explains why she loves the medium of film music and gives us a glimpse into her process of creating music for The Story of Everything. She says music can bypass analytical thinking to reach a viewer's emotional core. She also values that the music she writes is able to work together with the visuals to create a lasting impression: "And it's just this overload of experiencing the story on every visceral level you can," Hannah notes. "And I think music is a huge part of that and works in tandem as this choir of voices telling the same story." Source
“Nobody really teaches you how to write for the voice because every voice is different. We're given these standard ranges, which is fine for harmony exercises that aren't meant to be sung. The information we have guiding us is half-knowledge that's more dangerous than nothing at all. It's a question of ‘how can you empathize with the singer?' As a composer, I work with them to create a composite work of art that incorporates their expressive agencies.”Raphael Fusco is an Italian-American composer, keyboardist, and conductor praised as “a lively player and fine improviser” (Los Angeles Times), “one of the most outstanding composers of his generation” (El Mundo), and “a leader in the opera world today” (OperaWire). His compositions span opera, orchestral, choral, art song, and chamber works, that blend expressive lyricism and vibrant textures with structural clarity and dramatic depth. He has received commissions from the Chamber Orchestra of Philadelphia, Cecilia Chorus of New York, I Cantori NY, Hartford Chorale, and members of the New York Philharmonic and Metropolitan Opera Orchestras, with premieres at Carnegie Hall, Lincoln Center, Casa Milà (Barcelona), the Oriental Art Center (Shanghai), and ÉgliseSaint-Séverin (Paris).Fusco has won awards from the NATS Art Song Composition, Phoenix Boys Choir New Works Rising Competition, American Prize, Notre Dame University Liturgy Alive Composition Competition, Ruzickova Composition Competition, Fyfe Choral Composition, and Aliénor Harpsichord Competition.As a pianist and harpsichordist, he has performed with the New York Philharmonic, American Ballet Theatre, and Branford Marsalis. Fusco studied with David Loeb, Robert Cuckson, and Carl Schachter at the Mannes College of Music in New York, Giulio Castagnoli in the G. Verdi Conservatory of Turin, Philip Lasser and Narcis Bonet at the École Normale in Paris. He holds a doctorate from the University of Music and Performing Arts Graz, where his artistic research explored empathy and expressive agency in vocal composition.To get in touch with Raphael, you can find him on Facebook (@raphael.fusco.9), Instagram (@fuscoraphael), and YouTube (@RaphaelFusco) as well as visit his website: raphaelfusco.com.Email choirfampodcast@gmail.com to contact our hosts.Podcast music from Podcast.coPhoto in episode artwork by Trace Hudson
Join Elliot, Luke, Doug, and Annie in this episode of Checkpoint on JOY where they talk about video game composing. Catch the latest episode on Spotify: Giving a 1-Up to diversity in gaming. The post Video game composing appeared first on Checkpoint.
Join Magnus Zetterlund as he sits down with Swedish mandolin player, bandleader, and composer Karl Tirén to discuss his innovative Atlas project—a unique trio featuring mandolin, trombone, and double bass. Karl shares his compositional process, the journey from injury to inspiration with the tune "At Last," and how he practices through playing rather than drilling scales.Links:Visit our website for more episodes:https://mandolinsecrets.com/podcastConnect with Karl Tirén: Instagram: @karltiren.music https://www.instagram.com/karltiren.musicBandcamp - Karl Tirenhttps://karltiren.bandcamp.com/album/atlasMusic available on Spotify, Apple Music, and all streaming platforms Physical CDs available by contacting Karl directlySpotify:https://open.spotify.com/artist/1rlnxnGG3xgGMG16lRIh7D?si=VxT_r2iJRQ-OoaEf0x8YbgMandolin Secrets Academyhttps://www.mandolinsecrets.com/academyTopics Covered:The Atlas ProjectUnique instrumentation: mandolin, trombone (Magnus Grumer), and double bass (Johan Lindblom)Released as three EPs, now available as a complete albumBlending American mandolin traditions with Scandinavian sensibilitiesModern approach to releasing music in the streaming eraComposition & Creative ProcessKarl's workflow: starting with instrumental phrases that "stick"Voice memos and long-form development (some tunes take years)Writing specifically for ensemble voices (like "Tromb" for trombone)Balancing melody and rhythm on the mandolinPractice Philosophy"Practice listening" as the foundationDesire-driven rather than strictly disciplined approachLearning through playing tunes instead of isolated exercisesInfluences from David Grisman, Chris Thile, and Brazilian mandolinist Hamilton de HolandaOvercoming InjuryKarl's tendonitis story and years away from playingHow Atlas bandmates share a history of performance injuriesThe importance of listening to your body"At Last" as a turning point in regaining inspirationBand LeadershipSelf-releasing music without a record labelBuilding a touring quartet (adding trumpet player Karl Valmyr)Balancing music with day jobsPlanning and sustaining a long-term projectInstrumentsKarl's Bouvier F-style mandolin (refinished from purple!)Also plays a Nordic flat-top mandola by Mats NordvallDiscussion of American vs. Nordic mandolin traditionsFeatured Music:Åre Polskan (Swedish traditional, mandolin duo with Magnus)"At Last" (original composition that launched the Atlas project)"Tromb" (written specifically for trombone)Bridal march (Scandinavian-influenced original)Bach Menuet in G Major (duo arrangement)Mentioned in This Episode:Johan Lindblom (double bass)Magnus Grumer (trombone)Karl Valmyr (trumpet)Former band: Primus MotorHamilton de Holanda (Brazilian mandolinist)Mats Nordvall (Nordic mandolin builder)Resources:Full video version available in Mandolin Secrets AcademyBach Menuet and Åre Polskan arrangements available in the Academy
For all those who missed out on London, see you in Miami next week!Notion, the knowledge work decacorn, has been building AI tooling since before ChatGPT, with many hits from Q&A in 2023 and unified AI in 2024 and Meeting Notes in 2025. At the end of their last Make user conference, Ryan Nystrom teased Notion 3.0's Custom Agents - and they are finally embracing the Agent Lab playbook!Sarah Sachs and Simon Last of Notion join us for a deep dive into how Notion built Custom Agents, why it took years and multiple rebuilds to get right, and what it means to turn a productivity tool into an agent-native system of record for enterprise work.We go inside the product, engineering, evals, pricing, and org design decisions behind one of the most ambitious AI product efforts in software today — from early failed tool-calling experiments in 2022 to agent harnesses, progressive tool disclosure, meeting notes as data capture, and the long-term vision for software factories and agentic work.We discuss:* Sarah and Simon's path to launching Notion Custom Agents, and why the feature was rebuilt four or five times before it was ready for production* Why early agent attempts failed: no tool-calling standard, short context windows, unreliable models, and too much complexity exposed to the model* The “Agent Lab” thesis: not just wrapping a model, but understanding how people collaborate and building the right product system around frontier capabilities* How Notion thinks about roadmap timing: not swimming upstream against model limitations, but also building early enough that the product is ready when the models are* Why coding agents feel like the kernel of AGI, and how Notion is thinking about “software factories” made up of agents that spec, code, test, debug, review, and maintain codebases together* How Sarah runs AI engineering at Notion (“notes from Token Town”): objective-setting over idea ownership, low-ego teams comfortable deleting their own work, and a culture designed to swarm around fast-changing opportunities* The “Simon Vortex,” company hackathons, and why security gets pulled in early rather than late* How Notion organizes AI: core AI capabilities and infrastructure, product packaging teams, and a broader company mandate that every product surface must increasingly work for both humans and agents* Why prototypes have become much easier to build internally, and how “demos over memos” changes product development inside a tool the whole company already uses every day* Notion's eval philosophy: regression tests, launch-quality evals, and “frontier/headroom” evals that intentionally only pass ~30% of the time so the company can see where model capabilities are going* What a “Model Behavior Engineer” is, and why Notion treats eval writing, failure analysis, and model understanding as a distinct function rather than just software engineering* The changing role of software engineers in the age of coding agents, and why the new job looks less like typing code and more like supervising a rigorous outer system of agents, PRs, and verification loops* How the “software factory” should work: specs, self-verification, bug flows, subagents, and minimizing human intervention while preserving the invariants that matter* A live walkthrough of a Notion Custom Agent handling coworking space tenant applications by triaging email, enriching applicants with web search, and writing structured data into a Notion database* How agents compose inside Notion: shared databases as primitives, agents invoking other agents, “manager agents” supervising dozens of specialized agents, and memory implemented simply as pages and databases* Notion's take on MCP vs CLI: why Simon is bullish on CLI's self-debugging nature, where MCP still makes sense, and how Sarah thinks about capability, determinism, permissioning, and pricing alignment* The evolution of Notion's internal agent harness: from early JavaScript coding agents, to custom XML, to Markdown and SQL-like abstractions, to tool definitions, progressive disclosure, and a much shorter system prompt* Why Notion cares about teaching “the top of the class,” building for sophisticated operators rather than abstracting away too much capability for everyone* How agent setup works today: agents that can configure themselves, inspect their own failures, and edit their own instructions — with guardrails around permissions* How Notion prices Custom Agents: credits as an abstraction over tokens, model type, serving tier, web search, and future sandbox costs; why usage-based pricing was necessary; and how “auto” tries to match the right model to the right task* Why Notion is not eager to train a foundation model, where they do fine-tune and optimize today, and why retrieval/ranking is one of the most important investment areas as more searches come from agents rather than humans* Why Meeting Notes became one of Notion's strongest growth loops: not just as transcription, but as high-signal data capture that powers search, custom agents, follow-up workflows, and the broader system of record for company collaboration* Why Notion is more interested in being the place where collaboration data lives than in building hardware themselves — and how wearables or other capture devices may eventually feed into that systemSarah SachsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmsachsX: https://x.com/sarahmsachsSimon LastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140X: https://x.com/simonlastFull Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00:00 Introduction and launching Notion Custom Agents* 00:01:17 Why Notion rebuilt agents four or five times* 00:03:35 Building for where models are going, not just where they are* 00:05:32 The Agent Lab thesis, wrappers, and product intuition* 00:08:07 User journeys, leadership, and low-ego AI teams* 00:13:16 The Simon Vortex, hackathons, and bringing security in early* 00:16:39 Team structure, demos over memos, and building for agents* 00:20:25 Evals, Notion's Last Exam, and the Model Behavior Engineer role* 00:27:37 Evals as an agent harness and the changing role of software engineers* 00:30:42 The software factory: specs, verification, and agent workflows* 00:32:18 Live demo: a custom agent for coworking space applications* 00:35:08 Composing agents, manager agents, and memory as pages* 00:38:15 Notion Mail, Gmail, native integrations, and tools* 00:39:43 MCP vs CLI and the cost of capability* 00:44:13 When Notion uses MCP vs building its own integrations* 00:47:43 The history of Notion's agent harness rebuilds* 00:55:35 Power users, public tools, and the setup agent* 00:58:01 Self-fixing agents, permissions, and “flippy”* 01:01:13 Pricing, credits, and choosing the right model automatically* 01:09:01 Why Notion isn't training its own frontier model* 01:14:07 Retrieval, ranking, and search built for agents* 01:17:27 Meeting Notes as data capture and workflow automation* 01:21:18 Wearables, hardware, and Notion as the system of record* 01:23:45 OutroTranscript[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio founder of Kernel Labs and I'm joined by swyx, editor of the Latent Space.[00:00:11] swyx: Hello. Hello. We're back in the beautiful studio that, uh, Alessio has set up for us with Simon and Sarah from Notion. Welcome.[00:00:18] Sarah Sachs: Thanks for having us.[00:00:19] Alessio: Thanks for having us. Yeah.[00:00:20] swyx: Congrats on the launch recently the custom agents, finally it's here. How's it feel?[00:00:26] Sarah Sachs: We ship things slowly. So it had been in Alpha for a little bit and at the point at which is it's an alpha, um, there's a group of people that are making sure it's ready for prod, and then there's a group of people working on the next thing.So sometimes some of these launches are a bit delayed satisfaction, so it's quite nice to remind yourself all the work you did because we do have a habit of like. Being two or three milestones ahead. Uh, just ‘cause you have to be, you know, you can't get complacent. Um, but it's been great that people understood how this is helpful.And I think that's just easier in general building AI tools today than it was two, three years ago. People kind of get it and so that user education, um, there's just, it was our most successful launch in terms of free trials and converting people and things like that. It was really successful, so yeah.But there's a lot to build.[00:01:12] swyx: Making it free for three months helps.[00:01:16] Sarah Sachs: Yep.[00:01:17] Simon Last: It was definitely super exciting for me because it's probably the fourth or fifth time that we rebuilt that.[00:01:22] swyx: Yes.[00:01:23] Simon Last: And I mean,[00:01:24] swyx: you've been building this since like 20, 22.[00:01:26] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, like, it was even right when we got access to like GPT four in late 20 22, 1 of the first ideas we had is like, oh, okay, let's make an agent that I, we used the word assistant at the time, there wasn't really the word, the word agent yet, but, oh, we'll give an access to all the tools the notion can do, and then it, we run in the background like, like do work for us.And then we just tried that many times and it just. Was too early. Um,[00:01:48] swyx: I need to force you to like double click on that. What is too early? What didn't work?[00:01:52] Sarah Sachs: We were fine to, like, before function calling came out. We were trying to fine tune with the Frontier Labs and with fireworks, like a function calling model on notion functions.This is right when I joined. I joined because, um, we needed a manager as Simon was needed to be able to go on vacation. So, uh, that's, that's around when I joined, so you can speak much more to it.[00:02:11] Simon Last: Yeah, we did partnerships with both philanthropic and open AI at different times, uh, to try to, at the time the, I mean, when we first tried, there wasn't even a constant of like tools yet.We, we sort of designed our own like, like tool calling framework and then we tried to fine tune the models to, uh, to use it over multiple turns. Um, and because it, it didn't work well out the box, I think. Yeah. The models are just too dumb and the context thing was also way too short.[00:02:37] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:02:37] Simon Last: Um, and yeah, we just kind of banged our head against it for a long time.Uh, unfortunately it was always like, there was always like sort of. Glimmers that it was working, but um, it never felt quite robust enough to be like a useful, delightful thing. Um, until I would say, uh, the big unlock was probably like Sonic 3.6 or seven, uh, early last year. And that's when we started working on our agent, which we shipped last year.Um, and then, and then uh, uh, custom agents, kinda a similar capability and that, that one just took longer because we, we just wanted to get the reliability up a lot higher. ‘cause it's actually running in the background.[00:03:14] Sarah Sachs: And the product interface of like permissions and understanding, you know, this custom agent is shared in a Slack channel with X group of people and has access to documents that are surfaced to Y group of people.And the intersect experts, Y might not be whole. And so how do you build the product around making sure administrators understand that permissioning took multiple swings.[00:03:35] Alsesio: Everything is hard back at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm curious, like when the models are not working, how do you inform the product roadmap of like, okay, we should probably build, expecting the models to be better at some reasonable pace, but at the same time we need to, you know, you had a lot of customers in 2022.It's not like you were a new company or like no user base.[00:03:54] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean I think there's always the balance of, you know, like you want to be a GI pilled and thinking ahead and building for where things are going. Uh, but also you wanna be like shipping useful things. And so we always try to like, like keep a balance there.You know, we. We try to take clear, like a portfolio approach. You know, we're always working on multiple projects and, and we're always trying to work on, you know, maintaining things where that have already shipped, like, like shipping new things that are like eminently working well and make them really good.And, and then we wanna always have a few projects that are a little bit crazy. Um,[00:04:23] Alsesio: and what are the a GI peel projects that you have today? I'm curious about, uh, you don't have to share exactly what you're working on, but I'm curious what are things today that maybe in 18 months people will be like, oh, obviously this was gonna work[00:04:35] Sarah Sachs: 18 months.[00:04:37] Alsesio: Yeah, 18 months is, you know,[00:04:37] Sarah Sachs: it's a long time and Yeah. Yeah.[00:04:39] Simon Last: I mean, there's a number of things happening. I think one thing that's becoming more clear is I think like, like, uh, coding agents are the kernel of EGI, sort of, everything is a coding agent. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sort of one, one direction.Um, and then, yeah, the exciting thing about that is sort of your agent can sort of bootstrap its own software and capabilities and actually debug and maintain them. And so yeah, we're, we're, we're thinking a lot about that. And then, yeah, like, like another category of things that I'm, I'm really excited about is like, uh, we call the software factory also.People are using this, uh, this, this sort of word. Um, basically it just means can you create sort of like a, as automated as possible, a workflow for developing debugging. Mm-hmm. Merging, reviewing, and maintaining a code base and a service where there's a bunch of agents working together inside, and like, like how does that work?[00:05:28] Sarah Sachs: If you think back to your initial question, like, why did this take so long? I think something,[00:05:32] swyx: I didn't say that, but Yes. Okay. Go ahead.[00:05:34] Sarah Sachs: Why, what, what changed over the three and half years of trying[00:05:37] swyx: it? Exactly. Right. Because most people always say like, it didn't work yet. Then reasoning models came, then it worked.I was like, okay, let's go a little[00:05:43] Sarah Sachs: bit. That's, I mean, that's part of it, but I think the other part of it that I actually think is really what will set notion apart for every new capability is we have like. Two skills that are crucial when it comes to frontier capabilities. One is not letting yourself swim upstream.So like quickly realizing if you're just pressing against model capabilities versus not exposing the model to the right information, not having the right infrastructure set up. That and of itself is the skill of intuition. And the second is to see, okay, you're not swimming upstream. Which direction is the river flowing and what is like, how do we think ahead about the product and start building it even if it's not great yet, so that when it is there, we're ready for it.Right? And like those can sometimes feel like counterintuitive things. Like we can be trying to fine tune a tool calling model when they don't exist yet. And that the trick is to not do that for too long, but realize that there was something there. And we've had a lot of things which like, um, we're just like not swimming in the right direction with the streams.I think we had multiple versions of transcription before we got meeting notes, right? Oh, I gotta talk[00:06:39] swyx: about that. Yeah.[00:06:40] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. Um, and so. I, I, I think that like we, we really closely partner with the Frontier Labs on capabilities and we also have to have strong conviction on, as those capabilities move.Notion is about being the best place for you to collaborate and do your work. And how does that narrative change if the way that we work changes?Yeah.[00:06:58] swyx: Yeah. You told me you were a fan of the Agent Lab thesis, and this is, this is kind of it, right?[00:07:02] Sarah Sachs: Right. I show that thesis to so many candidates. Like I have it as like micro chrome autofill.Um, at this point, like it's one of my most visitations[00:07:10] swyx: because like, is this the, here's why you should work in notion and not open, open eye. I, it's like,[00:07:14] Sarah Sachs: here's, here's what's different about it.[00:07:16] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:16] Sarah Sachs: And here's why. It's not just a rapper. I actually think more and more people understand it's not just a wrapper.[00:07:21] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:22] Sarah Sachs: Um, and by the way, like in the beginning, parts of what we build are wrappers on functionality. That works well, of course, but that's not really the most, um. I would say that's not the product that, that drives revenue. And that's not necessarily always what users need.[00:07:35] swyx: I mean, you know, notion is the AWS wrapper, but like the, the wrapper is very beautiful and like very, very well polished.So[00:07:40] Sarah Sachs: like the analogy,[00:07:41] swyx: like[00:07:42] Sarah Sachs: the analogy that I've been coming back to his Datadog in AWS[00:07:45] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:46] Sarah Sachs: So, uh, Datadog could not exist with, without cloud storage. Right. That it's kind of fundamental that that works. Um, and AWS has like a CloudWatch product, but Datadog is an expert on understanding how people want observability on the products they launch.And we're experts in understanding how people wanna collaborate, and that's really where our expertise lies.[00:08:04] swyx: Totally.[00:08:04] Sarah Sachs: Um, regardless of the tools that we use,[00:08:07] Alsesio: I'm kind of curious how you think about implicit versus explicit expertise. I feel like Datadog is half and half implicit and explicit. It's like they understand across markets and industries what engineering teams usually look for.With notion, it's almost like more of the expertise is at the edge because you as a platform, you're like so horizontal that the end user is not really the same. Mm-hmm. Like with Datadog, the end user is always like, yeah, an engineering lead, a kinda like SRE related person with notion. It can be anything.So I'm curious how you put that expertise into a product versus, you know, obviously it, WS cannot build notion. It's, that doesn't quite work in this case, but[00:08:44] Simon Last: it's, it's a little bit differently shaped. I think, you know, a classic vertical SaaS, like the data is kind of like that. They understand their individual customer very deeply.It's kinda a narrow slice, um, notion has always been super horizontal. And our, our task has always been to sort of balance these two somewhat opposing forces of like, we're listening to our customers and what they want us to build. It's a broad slice. And then also we're thinking about like, okay, how do we decompose what they want into, uh, nice primitives that are, that are really nice to use and we'll, we'll get us like as much bang for the buck as possible.And then, you know. Maintain the whole system, make it all like, like super clean and nice to use.[00:09:22] Sarah Sachs: We still have user journeys. I mean, we still focus on like core. I actually think the failure of our team is when we focus too much on what are cools that are, what are tools that are[00:09:31] Simon Last: mm-hmm.[00:09:31] Sarah Sachs: Cool tools. I actually think that's when we make have the least velocity because you still need some sort of focus on a user journey.So like for instance, we'll all sit down every Friday and look at the P 99 of like the most token exhaustive custom agent transcript and just look at why it didn't do well and cut a bunch of tasks. Like we still focus on like, this has, like this should work. Email triaging should work. Mm-hmm. Right. And similarly, like when we're talking about before building, um, chatting, um, before we started filming about, okay, how can I do PDF export?Well that's functionality that then merits. Maybe we should build a tool that has access to a computer sandbox in a file system and the ability to write code. Right? Right. Um, but it's because we're thinking about the fact that our users to do their, to do their daily work, need to export PDFs, not because we're like, Hmm, I think a computer tool could be cool.Like, let's just see what happens. Mm-hmm. Like we, we have to focus on some user journeys, otherwise we just don't have like, enough strategy to, to prioritize.[00:10:29] swyx: I think there's a lot of like really strong opinions that you've had. Do you have like sort of like a towel of Sarah Sachs? Like, you know, like what, how do you run your team?Like I feel like you just have accumulated all these strong opinions. Obviously part, part of this is your, your token town thing.[00:10:43] Sarah Sachs: I think the TAs working with Service X is, um, you'd have to, it depends who you ask. Um, I think it depends if you're on my team or a partner Right. Or a vendor.[00:10:54] swyx: Yeah. There other people want to run their teams the way that you're Yeah.You're like bringing these things. And then also similarly, uh, Simon, when you did the custom agents demo, you had like, well, we've been using custom agents and here's the super long list of everything that we do. No humans ever read it. Right? That's what you said. I was like,[00:11:07] Sarah Sachs: yeah. So I think for, for me, um, something that I learned very quickly and became very comfortable with was that my job was not to be the ideas per person or the technical expert.My job was to make it so that everybody understood the objective, had a resource to help prioritize what they should work on, and had an avenue to prioritize what they thought was important. And I think that's true with all, all leadership, but I think especially on the AI team. Almost all of our best ideas come from prototypes, from people that have a cool idea because they saw a user problem, and it's a huge disservice if all of those ideas have to pass, like the sniff test of what me and a product partner or Simon and Ivan decided were the direction, right?Because a lot of what we're doing is leaning into capabilities, so. I think that's the first thing is like, I don't really view like the role of engineering leadership as like, uh, hierarchical, nor has it ever been, but especially now, like very willing to change direction based on, um, like proof is in the pudding.Yeah. And like, and I think we have rebuilt our harness three or four times. And when you do that, then the second rule of engineering leadership is like you need to build a team that's comfortable deleting their own code and is very low ego and is driven by what's best for the company. And, um, doesn't write design docs because they think it's their promotion packet.Right. And that's a culture that notion had long before I joined, but like our willingness to just swarm on different problems and um, redo things that we've built before because something has changed. Like, there's a lot of friction that can happen at companies when you do that. And it doesn't happen at Notion.And because it doesn't happen when new people join. Like they don't wanna be the ones that are saying, we shouldn't do this. I wrote that code. So then it's, you know, you, you create a culture that everyone thoughts and that culture comes directly, I think from Simon and Ivan though, um, because they're very open-minded.[00:12:50] swyx: Anything that you,[00:12:50] Simon Last: you'd add? I'm not a manager, like, like, like Sarah is. Um, a lot of my role is really to try to think a little bit ahead, make sure that we're, we're building on the right capabilities and then like the prototyping stuff. And yeah, it's really, really critical to always just be starting again.It's like, okay, this is new thing. What does this mean? What if we just rethought everything or wrote everything? And so I, I'm, I'm basically just doing that in a loop every six months.[00:13:16] swyx: Yeah. Do you believe in internal hackathons for this stuff?[00:13:19] Sarah Sachs: I think there's like two different versions. So one is like, we just have a, a, a solid bench of senior engineers that come and go on what we call the Simon Vortex and Productionizing what we built, right?Because when you're in the Simon Vortex, the velocity is super high. The direction changes daily, and it's meant to be like the equivalent of a SC Works lab. We don't need to do hackathons for that. We need to have senior engineers that we trust to come in and out of those projects. For instance, like management boundaries are really loose.Like you report to him, but you work for her right now. Yeah. That's something that when we hire managers, it's important they don't care about because we tend to form more structures. Yeah. Don't be too[00:13:54] swyx: territorial.[00:13:55] Sarah Sachs: We form more. It's after we ship things, not not before, just historically. Um, the second thing is we do have companywide hackathons.Actually we just had our demos day for the hackathon we had last week this morning. That's more for people that aren't directly working on the project, feeling like they have the time to pause and learn how to make themselves more productive or how they would use notion custom agents to build something.Or part of the hackathon was actually encouraging everyone across the company to build their own agentic tool loop, calling from scratch. Follow like an every blog post on how to do what I think because we want[00:14:26] swyx: just with the compound engineering one. Yeah.[00:14:28] Sarah Sachs: We want everyone to use cloud code in the company or whatever the coding agent they please and understand that fundamental.So we set aside a day and a half. We're all leadership, encourage everyone on their teams across the company to do it. So we have hackathons like that. I would say like kind of facetiously, like everything we build is a little bit like a hackathon until it graduates and puts on big boy pants and as a product ops rollout leader and has a assigned data scientists and stuff like that,[00:14:54] swyx: security review enterprise stuff,[00:14:56] Sarah Sachs: actually security reviews one of the things that we bring in first because it just slows us down way more and, um, causes a lot of tension and they build better product if they're involved early.So, um, that is probably the first person to get involved in something that's the[00:15:09] swyx: right PR approved answer.[00:15:10] Sarah Sachs: No, but it's not just PR approved. It like, um, um, it's[00:15:13] swyx: actually real. It's actually real. It's like, um, I'm just saying scar[00:15:15] Sarah Sachs: tissue.[00:15:15] swyx: Yeah,[00:15:16] Sarah Sachs: because like, you know, my background's also, I worked at Robinhood for a number of years.Yes. So like, uh, compliance and things like that, um, are a little bit more, you learn the hard way when it doesn't come naturally.[00:15:26] Simon Last: Yeah. I think the. The hackathon is really important for uplifting the general population, but like, if that's the only way you can build new things, you're kind of toast. I mean, it, it has to be like the daily processes, like, you know, building these new things.Um, and it has to be about, I think like, I think in the AI era a lot more leverage accumulates to the most curious and excited people. And so it's like we're all about just like activating that energy. You know, like if someone's protesting something on the weekend that they're excited about and it's important, that should be the main thing that we're doing.Yeah. Um, it's not a hackathon that we schedule once a quarter, it's just like, yeah. Daily process. Part of the culture.[00:16:02] Sarah Sachs: I mean, that's how we shift image generation and notion now. It was always this thing that would be kind of nice to have, but it wasn't really clear where that was necessarily aligned in product priorities.It'd be a lot of work. And we had someone on the database collections team, Jimmy, who was like. I really wanna do image generation for cover photos and inside notion. And we're like, if you wanna build it, like it's, do it please. Like we encourage you. We gave ‘em all the resources of working directly with Gemini and being able to like track the token usage and it working through endpoints.We gave them eval, support, everything, and then became a, a full project.[00:16:34] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:16:35] Sarah Sachs: That's why you can't have like ego as a, a leader. Like that's, that's how we work.[00:16:39] Alsesio: What's the size of the team today, both engineering and overall?[00:16:43] Sarah Sachs: I manage, uh, the team. That's what we'll call it. Core AI capabilities and infrastructure.That's about 50 people. But then we have per i partner teams that do packaging. So how it shows up in the corner chat versus custom agents versus meeting notes, that's another 30, 40 people. And, and then every team that has a product service at Notion that a user can interface with owns the tool that the agent interfaces with the editor team.The team that did CRDT for offline mode is the same team that handles how two agents, um, edit competing blocks. Mm-hmm. Right? It's the same problem. The team that built the underlying SQL engine is the same team that owns how the agent asks it to run a SQL query, and it does it performantly. And so from that regard, anyone working on product engineering is tasked with making them work for customers that are humans and agents because over time the majority of our traffic will be coming from agencies using in our interface, not humans.And so. Our objective is to make it so that the whole product org is building for agents.[00:17:40] Alsesio: Yeah. How has it changed internally? The activation bar is kind of lowered a lot. Like anybody can kind of create a prototype very, somewhat easily, especially if you're like an existing code base. Have you raised the bar on like what type of prototype people need to bring forward to gonna be taken?Not like seriously, but like, you know what I[00:17:58] Simon Last: mean? Yeah. I think the bar is lowered in many ways. Be like, one thing our, uh, our team built that is really cool is our, uh, our, our design team made a whole separate GitHub repo, uh, called the, the design Playground. And it's basically just to create a bunch of like, like helper components and you, uh, for, for quickly a throwing together UIs.And it's become like actually quite sophisticated. Like it has like an agent in there and like, uh, that's pretty fun. So like, we pretty much, like, they don't do mocks, they just make like, like full, full prototypes.[00:18:27] swyx: Here it is. It works.[00:18:28] Simon Last: They give you like a u rl. They're like, okay, all right. So we have to make the, like the real production version of that.Um, and then for engineers. A prototype looks like just making it a feature flag that actually works. Like that's sort of the bar.[00:18:39] Sarah Sachs: Something to understand that's really unique about notion. One of the reasons I joined we're super lucky is no one uses Notion in their job as much as people that work at Notion.[00:18:46] Simon Last: Of course.[00:18:47] Sarah Sachs: So I think there's very few companies, maybe if you worked on Chrome I guess, but like everything that we ship, we ship internally first and get a lot of really quick feedback. And also sometimes our dev instance is totally borked and you have to change a bunch of flags to get things done. And that's kind of like, but everyone, so people that do it ticketing, people that do supply chain procurement, recruiting, everyone is using the same instance of notion with like a lot of flags on for these prototypes people build.Um, and so we have this, Brian Levin, one of the designers on our team, I think evangelize this concept of demos over memos.[00:19:18] swyx: Ooh, too[00:19:20] Sarah Sachs: good. Um, which has been, uh, very good for building demos, and I think it's put a big pressure point on us to have really strong product conviction, because if anything can be demoed, you really need a strong filter of making sure that if you know, you're doing X amount of work, you're making the, you're, you're focusing on one tower, you're not just building a really flat hill.Right. That's actually where I think there has to be more conviction from our PMs, um, and our designers and, and well, the company really to have conviction of what journey we're going on.[00:19:52] Simon Last: But overall, I feel like it works pretty well. Like people, almost all the engineers have good enough taste to realize that like, this prototype doesn't actually make sense in the product, or, or it does.So it's not that common that I would see a prototype. It's like, oh, this makes no sense. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, people are doing reasonable things and, and, and then it's just a matter of. Which things we build first and then often just, just figuring out how to turn it on and off. There's our, in the, in our like experimental chat ui, there's this, there's probably like, like a hundred check boxes in there.[00:20:22] Sarah Sachs: Kills me[00:20:23] Simon Last: the things you could turn on and off.[00:20:25] Sarah Sachs: Uh, but I think that, okay, so that is kind of true, Simon, but like being the person that manages the evals team, like there is a level of intensity that it adds to the platform team. So, you know, if we're gonna do image generation and notion, all of a sudden the way that we do attachments and the way that we, um, our LLM completion like cortex talks and expects tokens back and now it's getting images back.Like there's a lot of platform work that we do need to, like solidify a little bit. So sometimes it'll be in dev for a couple weeks before it makes it to prod just because we still have to like, make it robust, make it HIPAA compliant, ZDR compliant, figure out the right contracting with the vendor, whatever it is.And we need to eval it because we want the team. To still maintain what they build. That's the one thing is like if we have a bunch of prototypes, it can't just be like a small group of people that then maintain whatever end prototypes. So we have invested a lot of people in an eval and model behavior understanding teams that, we call it agent dev velocity.So your dev velocity building agents can be faster if we invest in that platform. And so we have a whole org dedicated to Asian, um, platform velocity so that you can build your own eval and then maintain it once you ship it. So if a new model release comes out and we, every[00:21:38] swyx: team maintains their own eval,[00:21:40] Sarah Sachs: we maintain the eval framework.Every team owns their own evals and a lot of them we've integrated to Optin, to ci, or we run them nightly and we have a team, uh, a custom agent that triggers to a team to look at the major failures. That's really critical because if we have like all these different surfaces now, a lot of it's on the same agent harness, so it's easier to maintain.It's just packaging of different agent harnesses, but new functionality of the agent. Let's say that like we wanna update like. Uh, you know, they deprecated, sonnet, um, four or whatever it is and we need to auto update. Are[00:22:11] swyx: they already? That's so, okay. Yeah. Actually wasn't that long ago.[00:22:14] Alsesio: Theywere[00:22:14] Alsesio: just 3.5.[00:22:15] Sarah Sachs: 3.537. Just got deprecated.[00:22:18] swyx: 3 7, 5 0.2 or, yeah. No,[00:22:20] Sarah Sachs: it's not. 5.2 is five point. Five point no. Yeah, five four is 40% more expensive than five two. So if they deprecated five two, you would hear they can, you would hear from me about that one. Um, but, uh, another conversation to have.[00:22:35] swyx: I have a cheeky evals question for you.Have you noticed any secret degradation from any of the major model providers?[00:22:40] Sarah Sachs: Secret degradation,[00:22:42] swyx: like. During the War Bay, when it's high traffic, it suddenly gets dumber.[00:22:47] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. I mean, not just between the, I mean, we definitely notice flakiness, we've definitely noticed, particularly for some providers, that things are slower during working hours and[00:22:57] swyx: there's a latency argument.Yes. Not a quality argument.[00:22:59] Sarah Sachs: No. I think the quality difference that's interesting is, um, even though companies that say they're selling the same, a, it's really into like quanti quantization, but like companies that say they're selling the same model through different vendors, whether it be through first party or Bedrock, Azure, et cetera.We do see different qualities sometimes, and that's not necessarily what's advertised.[00:23:21] swyx: Yeah. Kidney went to the point of like, if we, they shipped like this, like eval across all the providers and it was like very obvious we were secret equalizing and it was very,[00:23:28] Sarah Sachs: yeah. But[00:23:29] swyx: that's very embarrassing.[00:23:30] Sarah Sachs: You know, um, we hire Subprocess to figure that out for us.So we just wanna understand where it's regressing or where it's optimized. And sometimes we're okay with regressions that optimize latency if they're the appropriate regressions. Our job is to make sure we have the evals to understand the changes that are important to us. And even like when we're partnering with labs on pre-releasees of models, they'll send us multiple snapshots.And this is less about quantization, but more just regressions. Like they have shipped models that were not the snapshots that we wanted, and they have changed the snapshots that they shipped based on the feedback that we give. Because our feedback tends to be more enterprise work focused and not coding agent focused.And definitely those can be bummers, like, you know, uh, we know that this wasn't the version you wanted, but we'll help you make it work. I mean, we always make it work, but that definitely happens.[00:24:16] Alsesio: Yeah. Do you have, um, failing evals that you're just hoping, oh, that will have success eventually when a good model comes out?[00:24:23] Sarah Sachs: Uh, I mean, yeah. So I think. I mean, I could talk about this for 60 minutes, so I will limit myself. I think it's a real issue when people say evals and it's just like, that's quality, that's like unit, I mean, it's like saying testing. It's not just unit tests, right? So. We have the equivalent of unit test.Regression test. Those live in ci, those have to pass a certain percent, you know, within some stochastic error rate. Then we have, as you're building a product, evals of these aren't passing right now, and this is launch quality. So we have a report card and we need to, on these categories, you know, be it 80 or 90% of all of these user journeys to launch, and then what we have what we call frontier or headroom evals, where we actively wanna be at 30% pass rate.And that's actually been a effort that we took in partnership with philanthropic and OpenAI in the past maybe two or three months, because we actually hit a point where our evals were saturated and we weren't able to really give insightful feedback other than it wasn't worse. And not only is that not helpful for our partners, it's not helpful for us to understand where the stream is going.You know, going back to that analogy. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about. What notions last exam looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Not just humanities, last exam. Ooh, notions last exam. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a lot of, you know, dreams about what that would look like. I know we've talked a lot about benchmarking, um, swix, but, uh, yeah.Notions last exam is a big thing inside the company and we have people, full-time staff to it exclusively. Mm. We have a data scientist, a model behavior engineer, and an full-time, um, evals engineer just dedicated to the evals that we pass 30% of the time.[00:25:56] swyx: What you're hiring for[00:25:57] Sarah Sachs: MBEs? I am hiring[00:25:58] swyx: What is an MBEA[00:25:59] Sarah Sachs: model?Behavior Engineer Model. Behavior engineers started with a title data specialist before I joined when they were working with Simon on like, uh, Google Sheets and like Simon just needed someone to look through Google Sheets and say, yes, no, this looks bad. This looks good. Right? And so we hired people with kind of diverse linguistics background.We had like a linguistics PhD dropout. Mm-hmm. And a Stanford ate new grad. And they're amazing. And they formed a new function basically. And over time we've built a whole team, um, with a manager who's now kind of reinventing what that role is with coding agents. So they used to be kind of manually inspecting code.Now they're primarily building agents that can write evals for themselves or LLM judges. There's a really funny day I can send you the picture where Simon, about a year and a half ago, was teaching them how to use GitHub. Um, and they're on the whiteboard and it was like, okay, I think it would be so much faster if our data specialists learned how to use GitHub and like learned how to commit these things in Dakota.And, and that was then and now I think, you know, coding has been a lot more accessible. Um, but moving forward it's this mix of like data scientist PM and prompt engineer because there's craft in understanding like even like what models can and can't do things. How do we define like that headroom? How do we define like what a good journey is?Um, is this model better or not? Why is this failing? There's some qualitative work, but then there's also like a lot of instinct and taste to it, and that's not necessarily software engineering. And so we have like very firm conviction and we have had for a number of years now that that is its own career path and we have always welcomed the misfits, so to speak.So we really firmly believe that you don't need an engineering background to be the best at this job. And that's what's quite unique about this particular role.[00:27:37] Simon Last: Yeah, this is something that I've been pretty excited about recently is we made an effort basically to treat the eval system as like an agent harness.So if you think about it, like, you know, you should be able to have an agent end-to-end, download a dataset, run an eval, iterate on a failure, debug, and, and then implement a fix. And ultimately you should be able to, you know, drive the full time process with a human sort of observing the, you know, the outer uh, system.So yeah, we went, went pretty hard on that. And that's, that's worked extremely well so far. It's like basically just to turn it into a coding agent, uh, uh, problem.[00:28:11] swyx: Your coding agent or just whatever[00:28:13] Simon Last: harness No coding agent. Yeah, code, cloud code. It should be totally general. Yeah. I think if it would be a mistake to like, like fix it on any, any particular coding agent.At the end of the day, it's just like CLI tools.[00:28:21] Sarah Sachs: It's like the same way that you would've a coding agent write the unit test. You should have a coding agent write the eval.[00:28:26] swyx: Yeah.[00:28:26] Sarah Sachs: But there's a lot of supervision in that still. We just don't believe that supervision has to come from software engineers because a lot of it is like, um, kind of you XREE and whatever, and these are the people that also triage failures and tell us where we should be investing next.[00:28:40] swyx: Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and ask a spicy question. Is there a data, there are no software engineers at Notion.[00:28:46] Simon Last: Um,[00:28:46] Sarah Sachs: what does it mean to be a software engineer?[00:28:47] swyx: Exactly.[00:28:48] Simon Last: I mean, I think the way things are going is like we're on some continuum where. If, if you look back three years ago, humans were typing all the code and then we had auto complete, you're typing list of the code.Then we had sort of like filling agents, filling lines, and now we're getting into like agents doing longer range tasks where you can debug and implement a fix and then verify it works and you know, get your, get your PR even like, like Merion deployed. I think we're sort of just moving up the abstraction ladder and then the human role becomes more about observing and maintaining the outer system.There's a string of agents flowing through, like me prs what's going off the rails. Like what do I need to approve? Is there like a learning or memory mechanism that that works? So it's kind of a hard engineering problem. There's a, you know, there's, there's a lot to do there. I think we're just sort of moving up stack[00:29:34] Sarah Sachs: the same transition machine learning engineers have made, right?Like I haven't looked at a PR curve in a while.[00:29:39] swyx: Yeah. You used to do this stuff and now, um, auto research can do it,[00:29:42] Sarah Sachs: right? Like I think it depends on what you define as a software engineer.[00:29:46] swyx: Yes. It's, that's changing for sure.[00:29:49] Sarah Sachs: I think every software engineer in notion this summer went through like this, um, sheer, um, one of our engineering leads of the company called it, like every software engineer is going through the, the, uh, identity crisis that every manager goes through, where all of a sudden they realize their ability to write code is less important than their ability to delegate in context switch.And I think that is a transition out of being a software engineer. But[00:30:12] Simon Last: yeah. Yeah, there's a critical difference to being a manager, which is that like, it is actually very deeply technical. The problem, you know, humans are very like, like, like fuzzy and you can't like treat a team of humans like a, like a rigorous system where like, you know, prs like, like flow through and can be in like a block status and then what happens when they're blocked, right.With a set of agents, you actually can do that. And, and, and I think it's actually, there's a lot of interesting technical rigor that that goes into that it's like it's a technical design problem. Ultimately.[00:30:42] Alsesio: What is the design of the software factory that you're building?[00:30:46] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think we're. Trying a lot of different things.I mean, ultimately you want to design a system that requires as little human intervention as possible, but like still maintaining the in variance that, that you care about. So yeah, we're exploring a lot different ideas there. I mean, I think I could talk about a few things I think are important there.Like, one thing I think is really important is, um, having some kind of like specification layer you can just commit marked on files. Mm-hmm. That works pretty well, but[00:31:15] swyx: it's nice to be notion man. I'm just saying like the spec, like Yeah. The natural home for specs is notion.[00:31:21] Simon Last: Yeah. Right. It can be a database of pages.Yeah. I mean, it needs to be something that is, you know, human readable and I viewable and I think that's pretty key. Another really key component is like the, the self verification loop. Yes. You need really, really good testing layers, basically. And that's a really deep, uh, uh, problem. But by getting that right, you know, and then, and then it's kinda like the workflow of like.What happens when there's a bug? How does it flow into the system? Like, is it like a subagent working on it? How does it make a PR and how does that get reviewed? And me, and then, you know, so there's like the, the flow or process.[00:31:56] swyx: Yeah. Cool. Uh, you know, one thing we did work out before you guys came in was this demo or this[00:32:01] Simon Last: agents[00:32:02] swyx: agent demo.Uh,[00:32:03] Simon Last: so every,[00:32:04] Alsesio: every time we do an episode, we try the product. Right. I don't think there's ever been an episode that I haven't tried. Yeah. Um,[00:32:11] swyx: and we, we try, try is a, a big word. Like since day one lane space has been on Notion, but this is the, this is the net new thing. Yes.[00:32:18] Alsesio: So this is for Nel Labs, which is the space we're in.So next week we're opening applications for tenants. So there's a web form, let me, we got this form done here. Uh, so, uh, before. Uh, the workflow would be I get an email, then I look at the person. It was like, should I spend time talking to this person? Then I respond, they respond back. So I build this. So the name it came up for on its own.Can you maybe h how do, how does it come up with its own name?[00:32:43] Simon Last: Yeah, that's a pretty app name. It's, it, it is just a random, it's a random, a name generator.[00:32:47] Alsesio: Oh, that's funny. It just came,[00:32:49] Simon Last: the fact that it picked that is, is kind of hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's just determined,[00:32:54] Sarah Sachs: resilient collector. I, I think I've never looked at the code for that.I've never second guessed it. I think it's kind of like a madlib situation.[00:33:00] Simon Last: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. It's, it's totally a, a deterministic. Oh, I thought it was great. Yes. Although, although when the, if you use the AI to set itself up, it can update its own name, so. Okay. Um,[00:33:11] Sarah Sachs: how did you create it? It, did you just do[00:33:12] Alsesio: classroom?I,[00:33:13] Sarah Sachs: okay.[00:33:13] Alsesio: I did, yeah. I'll say just check my inbox for applications for a coworking space. Keep a people, so it created the database for me. Which I have here. And I guess database is like an notion table because everything is notion. Um, and then whenever um, an email comes in, like here, it just creates a new role for the person.Mm-hmm. And then it uses web search to enrich the mm-hmm. The profile. So it kind of like searches the web and it's like, this is who this person is, this is when they say they wanna move in and kind of updates everything else. This is, I mean, it's not a GI, but to me, I don't wanna do this work. So it feels like, I mean, it took me maybe like 15 minutes to set up the whole thing.Um, and I really like that most of the information should live here. You know, it is not like some other tool asking me[00:34:01] Sarah Sachs: Yeah.[00:34:01] Alsesio: To like, bring my stuff there. It's like I would've probably already created an ocean thing.[00:34:06] Sarah Sachs: Mm-hmm.[00:34:06] Alsesio: So[00:34:07] Sarah Sachs: most of our biggest use cases and gains are from. That extra layer of human involvement in the process to make it so right.And so like one of our biggest use cases is bug triaging. So if someone posts something in Slack, can you just have a custom agent that lives there that has its own routing constitution of what team this belongs to, creates a task in your task database and then posts in that Slack channel, right? Like that's like one of the first things that we built internally, I think.And it's completely changed the way that notion functions as a company. Nothing falls through, well, most things don't fall through the crack. We don't know what we don't know. But it's not replacing people, it's replacing processes.[00:34:44] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:34:44] Sarah Sachs: Right.[00:34:45] Alsesio: And I'm curious how you think about composability of these things.So the other one I was working on is like a. These filler. So whenever somebody signs up as a tenant, kind of he'll sell the lease for them. There should probably some agent that is like office manager agent mm-hmm. That can handle the request, make the lease, and then, uh, give them a ADA access to the office and all of that.How do you think about that feature?[00:35:08] Simon Last: Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's two ways you can compose. One way is by using like the data primitives. So you can, you know, you, you could give, you have one agent, uh, be writing to the database and there's another agent that's walked in the database. So that's, that's one way that they, they can coordinate that's like a little bit more decoupled and mm-hmm.Works really well. Or you, you can couple them. So I, I think it's actually not released yet. Releasing it like next week is, uh, in the settings for an agent, you can give access to invoke any other agent.[00:35:34] swyx: Hmm.[00:35:34] Simon Last: So you can have them just. Just, uh, uh, talk directly. So[00:35:37] swyx: you, was there a limit on like, number of recursions or just,[00:35:40] Simon Last: um, probably,[00:35:42] swyx: you know what I mean?Like, you can just get an infinite loop that way there's[00:35:45] Simon Last: some kind of Yeah,[00:35:46] Sarah Sachs: I think it's, there is actually a number somewhere.[00:35:49] swyx: I believe I'm just, you know, like, you're, you're, someone's gonna screw up. You[00:35:51] Simon Last: should you try to see[00:35:53] swyx: Yeah. I mean, everything's gonna be paperclips.[00:35:55] Simon Last: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, but that's really useful.Yeah. So we, you know, like I just, I, I helped, uh, someone internally the other day, they had, they had built like over 30 custom agents for, uh, for our go to market team doing all kinds of different things. You know, for example, like researching, you know, like, like filling information about, about a customer or like, like triaging customer feedback or like, uh, something like that.Literally over 30 of them. And, and then he, and then he even made like a database of all the agents and then he is like, okay, and, and now I'm getting 70, over 70 notifications per day with just the agents are blocked on various things. Uh, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, the obvious thing to do there is to make a manager agent,[00:36:32] Sarah Sachs: right?[00:36:33] Simon Last: That's gonna sort of blocks be another abstraction layer in between your, your, uh, uh, 30 agents. Uh, so yeah, we, we send out with like a manager agent and then has access to invoke all the other agents and it's sort of like, like watching and observing them and then it sort of, it just creates a layer of abstraction.So instead of 70 notifications per day, it's like, like five. And then, and then the manager agent can help like, uh, debug and fix any problems with the,[00:36:54] swyx: does this is a concept of like an inbox or something like piece, you're basically saying that they can message each other?[00:37:00] Simon Last: Yeah.[00:37:01] Sarah Sachs: Well[00:37:01] swyx: they use the system of record, which, which is[00:37:02] Sarah Sachs: notion, so we[00:37:03] Simon Last: actually, yeah, we didn't make any special concepts at all.[00:37:06] swyx: They're interested to the motion notifications that I would've got,[00:37:09] Sarah Sachs: they can just like write a task to a database that the other agent's task to listening to, or they can actually call a web book to the agent, like they can just add the agent. Okay.[00:37:17] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, this is something that, that we're still working on.I, I think we, you know, like, like generally, generally the way we do these things is, you know, you first make it possible, maybe like a sort of janky way. So I, I, I think the way I set ‘em up is like, you know, we created like a new database that was sort of like issues mm-hmm. That the custom agents were, were experiencing, and then gave them all access to file an issue and then the manager has access to, to read the issues.Um, and that works pretty well, essentially like, like give it its own like internal issue tracker just for the agents. And then, you know, if that becomes a, a concept that seems useful, generally maybe we will think of how to package it in. But I mean, generally we try to just keep it to composing the primitive if we can.You know, another example of this is we have no built-in memory concept. Memory is, is just pages and databases. And so if you wanna give a memory, just give it a page and give it. Edit access to that page and the[00:38:03] swyx: human can edit it. Agent can edit[00:38:04] Simon Last: it. Yeah. And so that works, that pattern works extremely well on it.And you know, depending this case, you can have it be just a page or it could be an entire database with, you know, or, you know, I can have sub pages is is pretty on what you can do with that.[00:38:15] Alsesio: So when I was setting this up, uh, I connected my inbox and it was like, do you wanna use Gmail or Notion Mail? And I'm like, I don't wanna use Eater, I just want you to do it.I'm curious how you think about, you know, notion, mail, notion, calendar, all of these kind of ui ux interfaces, full stack[00:38:29] Simon Last: notion.[00:38:30] Alsesio: Yeah. When like at the same time you have the agents abstracting them away from you in a way, you know, how do you spend like the product calories so to speak?[00:38:37] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty important that you don't have to use, not your mail to connect to the mail capability.So we can just connect to Gmail or, or whatever you want, uh, to use. And we're thinking of the mail service as being really great to the extent that it's really agent built, right? So maybe the mail app is just sort of a prepackaged agent that helps you automate your, your inbox.[00:39:00] Alsesio: Yeah, the auto labeling is great.Think[00:39:03] Sarah Sachs: the, when we, um, integrate with Gmail for instance, we have a series of tools available that are available via MCP or API to Gmail. When we integrate with Notion Mail, we have the Notion Mail engineering team to build us the, um, exact right tools that optimize latency, optimize performance and quality.They own that quality. Um, there's product leads there. They're directly thinking about the user problems that happen in mail. So it tends to be when we build integrations and connections, we build natively first. Um, and then think about, um, extending them generally just because it's also easier. Mm-hmm. Um, um, to build natively first.Um, so that tends to be how we phase things out.[00:39:43] swyx: Talking about integrations, you prompted me, so I gotta ask. M-C-P-C-L-I. What's going on? What's the[00:39:48] Simon Last: Yeah. Opinion. I think, I mean, I'm, I'm definitely bullish and excited about cli. I think there's a few really cool things about cli. So one really cool thing is like, um, is that it's in the terminal environment, so it gets a bunch of extra power.So it, you know, for example, it can like, like paginating and cursor through like long outputs. Um, and it has a progressive disclosure inherently. Uh, so, you know, you don't see all the tools at once. It's just, you see the CLI wrapper and you can like use the, the help commands and, and, and read files. And then I think the most important thing that's, that's super cool is that there, it's also inherently a, a bootstrapped.So if there's an issue, uh, the agent can debug and fix itself within the same environment that it uses the tool.[00:40:30] swyx: Mm.[00:40:30] Simon Last: Right. Like, you know, I think I saw a tweet this morning. Someone said, you know, my agent didn't have a browser, so I asked it to make all a browser tool and within a hundred lines of code, it gave itself a little browser, like, like wrapping the, the, the chromium API, um.That's pretty incredible. And then if there was a bug, it would just immediately try to fix it. Mm-hmm. Right. On the other hand, if you use an, you know, if you use like of, of the Chrome dev tools, MCP, I've had this issue where like, like sometimes the transport gets like messed up. If it gets messed up, the agent has no way to fix itself.It, it no longer has a browser, it's, it's not broken. Right. I think that's, that's pretty fundamental, but I would say like a lot of the, the bad things about it can be fixed. Uh, so I think like, as a progressive disclosure, that can be fixed with, with right harness. Like, it, it obviously doesn't make sense to show it all the tools all the time.That's not really inherent to the MCP protocol. It's just like how you wrap it and use it.[00:41:16] swyx: There's many poorly built MCPs because we didn't know.[00:41:19] Simon Last: Yeah, yeah. I mean it was just early, like, like the obvious thing is, uh, you know, to start with is, is to just show it all the tools and it's like, okay, now we have a hundred tools.Yeah. And like the tool calling actually works. So let's of[00:41:28] swyx: your success[00:41:29] Simon Last: give it a way to like, like filter to source the tools. So yeah, I would say like broadly speaking, I'm really bullish on cli. I'm still bullish on CPS and in a certain environment. I think in, in particular, CP is really great for when you want sort of like a narrow, lightweight agent.I think there's, there's definitely a lot of use cases where, where you don't want like a full coding agent with a compute run time. And also you want it to be like more tightly permissioned. MCP inherently has a really strong permission model, like all you can do is call the tools. A CLI is a little bit murkier.It's like, can I access the, if PI token are you, like, properly sort of like re-encrypt the token so it can't like exfiltrate it, it introduce a lot of like, like new issues, which are. Real and hard to solve. And MCP is just like the dumb simple thing that works and it that it's pretty good.[00:42:12] Sarah Sachs: I'll add two more perspectives, not from it working well for Notion, but how notion like commits to both platforms.Notion is dedicated to being the best system of record for where people do their enterprise work. So we will always support our MCP and so far as other people are using cps, right? So regardless of our perspective, we've put a lot of effort into our MCP and we have a fantastic team that we're building, um, to do more there.And the second thing I'll say, I think, um, we all think a lot, but lately I've been thinking a lot about making sure there's a value alignment and pricing, um, with capability.[00:42:43] swyx: Literally our next question[00:42:44] Sarah Sachs: and. Needing language to execute deterministic tasks feels wasteful and requiring on a language model to interface with third party providers seems wasteful for tasks that don't require it.And particularly because our custom agents are using usage-based pricing. We think of pricing as like the barrier of entry for use of our product, and we're quite committed to making sure that it's not wasteful. Um, not just because it's a bad deal for our customers, but it's also bad business. We wanna have as many buyers, like there's a, there's an elasticity of demand and so if we can have our agents properly execute code that calls on CLI deterministically, it's a one-time cost, right?Versus constantly having a language model integrate with an MCP over and over and over and paying those like repeated token fees and it's happening outside the cash window, then you're paying for it over and over and over and it's just kind of unnecessary and less deterministic when it doesn't have to be.[00:43:36] Alessio: Yeah, the open-endedness I think is like, the main thing is like, well, if I go write code to just call an API, I would never use an MCP. But then you need an NCP sometimes when you know what to call, but you don't want it to restart versus like, I think the it built a browser from scratch is like, it's great when you're doing it on your own, but like if your customers were having your AI write a browser from scratch every time and you had to pay the token cost of that, yeah.You'd be like, no, no. The Chrome dev tools CP is actually pretty great. Just use that. I'm curious, how do you make that decision? Like should it be. Just straight API call very narrow. Should it be an MCP? Should it be super open-ended?[00:44:10] Sarah Sachs: Do you mean for when we ship notion capabilities or when we add capabilities to[00:44:13] Alessio: notion[00:44:14] Sarah Sachs: AI or,[00:44:14] Alessio: I mean, you might have a capability that the only way to do is an open-ended agent, like an agent with a coding sandbox.[00:44:21] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. In Notion ai they're not explicit, not We also ship an MCP.[00:44:24] Alsesio: Yeah. Yeah. In B,[00:44:25] Sarah Sachs: yeah.[00:44:26] Alsesio: Internally. Okay. Like is there ever a discussion of like, we're not gonna ship it because we're not able to tie it down? Or are you happy to just like,[00:44:33] Sarah Sachs: um, no. I mean, there are a lot of things where we choose not to use MCP because we wanna add more high touch to quality.I think search an agent to find is like the largest instance of that, where we have. Um, slack and linear and Jira search and notion that is not using necessarily the search MCP functionality that is provided by those companies. And that's because it's quite critical we think, to how our agent trajectories work is for us to have a little bit more control on the functionality of the search journey.And so it usually comes from quality and there's a long tail of things and that's why we built an MCP client or an MCP server, excuse me, so that people can connect whatever they want. There's that long tail, right. But we, for search particularly, I would say that's like the primary entry point, but there are other connections as well that it's a little bit of secret sauce a
Honesty. Communication. Knowledge. Strength. It's okay to want things, C
On this episode of The Bandwich Tapes, I sit down with guitarist and composer Bob Lanzetti, best known as one of the founding members of Snarky Puppy. I've admired Bob's playing for a long time, so getting the chance to talk with him felt especially meaningful. We begin with something many musicians quietly carry with them: the fear of hand issues and how that concern evolves over the course of a career. Bob reflects honestly on how he thinks about it now compared to earlier years.From there, we rewind to the beginning—growing up around his dad's guitar, discovering The Beatles, and the simple invitation that changed everything: “Learn this song and you can sit in with my band.” That moment set Bob firmly on the path toward becoming a guitarist. He traces his journey through early mentors, jazz studies, and eventually to the University of North Texas, where he found a musical community that would change his life—and where Snarky Puppy first came together.We spend time talking about the musical ecosystem around North Texas as well, especially the gospel and R&B scenes that shaped Bob's ear in ways the classroom couldn't. Bob shares how Snarky Puppy actually learns and rehearses music—often through oral tradition, demos, and Logic sessions—and how the band's three-guitar setup works without stepping on each other's sonic space. Along the way, he reflects on something younger musicians often overlook: the importance of restraint, listening, and self-balancing within a band.One of my favorite parts of the conversation centers on Bob's Nosferatu project, where he composed and performed an original score for the classic silent film during the COVID years. That project opened the door to exploring 20th-century classical textures, string writing, layered guitars, and production techniques. We wrap up by talking about the wide range of influences that shape Bob's music—from Charlie Christian and Jim Hall to Sonic Youth and Derek Bailey—and what's ahead in 2026, including GroundUP Festival, touring with Snarky Puppy alongside the Metropole Orchestra, his trio work, and the growing role of producing in his creative life.Key TakeawaysMusicians confront physical concerns over time — long careers require resilience and perspective.Early invitations can shape a life path — a simple opportunity to sit in with a band set Bob on the guitar journey.Community matters — the University of North Texas and the surrounding Dallas scene were foundational for Snarky Puppy.Listening and restraint define great band playing — especially in complex ensemble settings like a three-guitar lineup.Musical learning often happens by ear — oral tradition and demos play a huge role in how bands develop material.Creative side projects expand the palette — Bob's Nosferatu score opened the door to new textures and production ideas.Producing can become another creative outlet — shaping the sound of recordings scratches the same itch as performing.Music from the EpisodeB - Bob LanzettiAnonymous - Bob LanzettiThe Seven Deadly Sins (from Nosferatu) - Bob LanzettiJenny is a Donkey - Bob LanzettiAbout the PodcastThe Bandwich Tapes is a podcast hosted by Brad Williams, featuring conversations with musicians, composers, producers, and creative thinkers about their musical journeys. Each episode explores the influences, decisions, and experiences that shape a life in music—one conversation at a time.Connect with the ShowEmail: contact@thebandwichtapes.com
Daisy is a Grammy-winning singer and songwriter whose work has been heard on her singles, albums, television series narrated by David Attenborough, to films such as “Loki” and “Yesterday”. While at school she signed to Decca (Universal) records to become part of the quartet “All Angels” as a lead vocalist. Her work has also featured on Film/TV/Video Games from:The Sims 4Shaun the SheepBBC Radio ScotlandSkyITVCNNBob Harris' “Under the Apple Tree” series. She holds a dual citizenship between the UK and the USA and can be found touring around Nashville, New York, LA and Chicago to name a few. As well as, festival appearances including Glastonbury Green Futures, Cornbury and the Edinburgh Fringe. In 2024 she won a Grammy as part of the Birdsong Project with her piece “Murmuration” inspired by starling murmurations. Her songs have been recognised in competitions, coming first in “Roots Tech” with her song “Music Is There” and in the “Coffee Music Project” with her song “London's On Fire”. On top of all of this, Daisy also received the 2024 Cameron Makintosh MT Writer Placement Award and is currently co-writing musicals with Rebecca Brewer. Those include “Caven” and a new one about Jane Austen's life for Mayflower Studios. Most recently she appeared on a panel at the renowned drama school Arts Ed on International Women's Day. Talking about the availability of good parts for women, navigating the industry, advocating for yourself, being your own superhero and what we want the future to look like for women in the arts. We discuss her journey into the business, “All Angels”, writing music and the experience of both winning a Grammy, and hearing your work against the backdrop of legendary broadcaster David Attenborough. Thank you Daisy!Oliver GowerSpotlight Link: https://www.spotlight.com/9097-9058-5261Instagram: @ollietheuncensoredcriticFor enquiries and requests: olliegower10@gmail.comPlease Like, Download and Subscribe ✍️Thank you all for your support!Music from #InAudio: https://inaudio.org/ Track Name. Early Morning
What role does music play in helping us feel closer to God and find peace in our everyday lives?In this week's episode of Latter-Day Lights, we sit down with pianist, musical arranger, and father, Michael Boyd, whose lifelong love for music has become a powerful way to invite the Spirit into his heart, and strengthen his faith. From his early experiences in learning piano, to developing a deep appreciation for hymns during his mission, Michael shares how music has shaped not only his talents, but his testimony. His stories—including unforgettable moments like meeting Gladys Knight, and witnessing the impact of sacred music on others—highlight how God can use our gifts in unexpected and meaningful ways.Michael also opens up about creating his hymn arrangement album, “Be Still, My Soul,” blending musical creativity with spiritual inspiration to bring listeners a deeper sense of peace and connection. He shares how he thoughtfully weaves together multiple melodies—sometimes combining hymns, as seen in his mashup of “Kingsfold” and “I Need Thee Every Hour”—to deepen the emotional and spiritual impact of each piece. Through personal experiences, family life, and solemn moments at the piano, he reflects on how intentional, uplifting music can transform the atmosphere in our homes and hearts—reminding us that some of the most powerful expressions of faith are felt, not just spoken.*** Please SHARE Michael's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/tSRNdHcQots-----To LISTEN to Michael's first album, “Be Still, My Soul,” visit: https://open.spotify.com/album/0HhZ9Emk4oCHJ0xhjQumNz?si=7XOec_jKRV-3Neo0wDyn1QTo LISTEN to Michael's track, “Kingsfold and I Need Thee Every Hour,” visit: https://open.spotify.com/track/7afUlL6qjBDbc9cYzaxiUY?si=4c3d23d7ceec4048To READ Michael's free sheet music, visit: https://specialmusicalnumbers.com/To FOLLOW Michael on Spotify, visit: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3NLcup1JpD4nmP3HvSIVA6To FOLLOW Michael on Apple Music, visit: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/w-michael-boyd/1843900046To FOLLOW Michael on Amazon Music, visit: https://music.amazon.com/artists/B0FV3D7PQP/w-michael-boydTo FOLLOW Michael on Deezer, visit: https://www.deezer.com/us/artist/349661021To FOLLOW Michael on YouTube Music, visit: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kPwJ_Y8FkCbbkvYNV3gWgI3uAO3DljuwsTo LISTEN to “His Hands” by Kenneth Cope, visit: https://open.spotify.com/track/4sumBgc7QuvrVHA4bdZXsq?si=60e30cea674d43b9-----To READ Scott's new book “Faith to Stay” for free, visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/-----Keep updated with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/latter.day.lights/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaylightsIf you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know at https://www.latterdaylights.com
Welcome to Secrets of Organ Playing Podcast No. 773! Today's question was sent by our friend Rien Schalkwijk and wants to know what is our technical composing process.Here you will find all my scores: https://www.sheetmusicplus.com/en/category/arrangeme/?q=Secrets+of+Organ+Playing&aff_id=454957
In this episode, we sit down with Vernā Myers, world-renowned DEI strategist and Netflix's first VP of Inclusion Strategy. From breaking color lines as the first Black lawyer at her firm to leading a global team at one of the world's most excellence-obsessed companies, Vernā shares her extraordinary journey from trailblazing attorney to pioneering global executive. We delve into her transition from running a successful 25-year consulting practice to going in-house at Netflix, where she produced the company's first-ever inclusion report and fundamentally shifted how the world's most-watched content is created. Whether you're navigating "prestige hopping" or building a purpose-driven brand, this conversation offers invaluable lessons on luminous leadership, composing a life on your own terms, and how authentic service can transform culture at scale. What You'll Learn in This Episode (3:45) From Corporate Law to DEI Pioneer: Vernā's origin story—starting as the first Black lawyer at her firm, realizing the legal profession wasn't aligned with her purpose, and the permission that came from reading Composing a Life. (7:30) Building & Leaving a 25-Year Company: The journey from launching the Vernā Myers Company to Netflix asking her to come in-house—and why she initially said "no." (10:50) What DEI Actually Is: A masterclass breakdown of diversity, equity, and inclusion—the history of legally sanctioned exclusion, bathrooms at Harvard Law School, and why "inviting people in" to an organization isn't enough. (17:40) "Diversity is Being Invited to the Party, Inclusion is Being Asked to Dance": The origin story behind Vernā's trademarked metaphor and why retention strategy became the real work. (24:00) Making the Business Case for Inclusion: Why team effectiveness, innovation, and customer satisfaction depend on diverse voices—and the leadership blind spots that prevent companies from future-proofing. (30:35) Inside Netflix's Culture of Excellence: What it took to shift an entire company's culture, build global teams, and learn the difference between advising from the outside and leading from the inside. (41:30) How Vernā's Work Changed What You Watch: Creating Netflix's first inclusion report, teaching creatives to use an "inclusion lens," and influencing the content seen by millions worldwide. (56:40) The Spiritual Turn & Luminous Leadership: Why Vernā left Netflix to address polarization with a spiritual lens rooted in compassion, abundance, and love—and what companies get wrong when they roll back DEI commitments.
In this deeply personal and wide-ranging conversation, Laura sits down with Grammy-nominated songwriter Becca Stevens to explore the living edge between creativity and spirituality. What unfolds is more than an interview—it's a meditation on trust, intuition, and what happens when we let go of control.From a serendipitous Instagram message to an unforgettable backstage meditation on 11/11, Laura and Becca reflect on the invisible threads that guide us when we're willing to listen. They examine the dance between the muse and the critical mind, the fear of “getting it wrong,” and the discipline required to serve something larger than the ego.If you've ever felt stuck in your creative process—or wondered how to align authenticity with success—this episode offers a grounded, honest look at what it means to trust the flow. Creativity is not forced. It's received. And when we learn to quiet the mind, something far greater can move through us.
In this episode, Janina takes us deep into one of the most dramatic stories in wine history - the arrival of phylloxera in 19th century Europe - and explores how that crisis continues to shape the wines we drink today. She is joined by Jamie Goode - wine writer, judge, lecturer and author with a PhD in plant biology - to unpack the science behind grafting, the myth and magic of old vines, forgotten grape varieties, and whether ungrafted vines truly produce better wines. From Japan's wax paper “hats” protecting grape bunches, to Barossa's centenarian vineyards, to modern disease-resistant varieties like Voltis and Floréal, this episode blends history, science and future-facing viticulture in one fascinating conversation. If you've ever wondered whether ungrafted vines are superior, what actually happens during grafting, or how climate change might reshape grape varieties - this is your episode. 02:59 – The most surprising wine region Jamie has visited so far is Japan's with it's unique vineyard practices. 04:45 – Koshu explained - is it Japan's most exciting grape variety, or are international grapes performing better? 06:38 – Behind the scenes of filming The Science of Wine (available to watch on WinemastersTV or Prime Video) - vineyards, Mosel landscapes and the unexpected challenges of production. 09:54 – Composing the soundtrack on the spot - Jamie's spontaneous vineyard music recordings. 10:41 – Ungrafted vines: are they genuinely better, or is the answer more nuanced? 15:24 – The phylloxera story step by step - how one 19th-century plant import reshaped global wine. 20:53 – Forgotten varieties and whether they could make a comeback in the face of climate change. 22:46 – Loïc Pasquet (Liber Pater) and the revival of pre-phylloxera Bordeaux varieties. 29:04 – Francs de Pied movement - preserving ungrafted vineyards and the debate around their relevance. 31:21 – EU regulations and why planting ungrafted vines is often restricted. 31:55 – Rootstock resistance failures in California and Australia - are we facing new phylloxera risks? 34:33 – Soil microbiome experiments - could beneficial microorganisms protect ungrafted vines? 36:20 – How do you graft a vine? Omega grafts, English grafts and T-bud grafting explained. 40:49 – Inside a vine nursery - what really happens behind the scenes. 42:23 – Old vines vs young vines - do older vines truly produce better wines? 46:05 – Why old vines often yield less fruit - aging, pruning and vine physiology. 47:25 – Recommended wines from ungrafted and old vines - Barossa, Chile, Argentina and beyond. 49:09 – At-home wine experiments - blending your own Bordeaux-style wine and even propagating vine cuttings. 51:28 – What's next for Jamie - new book releases and upcoming projects. 52:37 – Links to Jamie's books and further reading. 53:21 – Next week: Deep Dive Flashcards - The Rhône Valley. Have you tasted wines from ungrafted vines - a true pied franc? Did they feel purer, more transparent… or is that simply romance in the glass?
Dr. Timothy Mahr is Professor Emeritus at St. Olaf College, and a prolific composer for wind band. Dr Mahr joins the podcast for a conversation that encompasses advice for young composers, discussion of ways we can improve our bands as a conductor, and a focus on some of his music!Highlighted is Etched in Stone, Commissioned by Kyle Smith and the Westbrook High School Wind Ensemble for the 50th Anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King, Jr.Support the Show HereTo gain access to all show notes and audio files please Subscribe to the podcast and consider supporting the show on Patreon - using the button at the top of thegrowingbanddirector.comOur mission is to share practical advice and explore topics that will help every band director, no matter your experience level, as well as music education students who are working to join us in the coming years.Connect with us with comments or ideasFollow the show:Podcast website : Thegrowingbanddirector.comOn Youtube The Growing Band Director Facebook-The Growing Band Director Podcast GroupInstagram @thegrowingbanddirectorTik Tok @thegrowingbanddirectorIf you like what you hear please:Leave a Five Star Review and Share us with another band director!
In this episode, I'm joined by Simon Oslender, and I'm not exaggerating when I say his playing lit me up the first time I heard it: pure joy, but with real depth underneath. We talk about growing up in a deeply musical home, starting on drums, and the exact “big bang” moment when a John Mayall live DVD (and Tom Canning on Hammond B3) made Simon lock in on the organ for life.We get into Simon's early recording experiments, how he writes (often away from the instrument, grabbing voice memos before ideas disappear), and his relationship with theory—especially his favorite framing: theory shouldn't tell you what to do, it should explain what you're hearing. And then we go deep on the dream-team reality of All That Matters: recording with Steve Gadd and Will Lee and how that session turned into a tour, and what it takes to keep your head straight when your heroes show up fully prepared to play your music.Music from the Episode:On a Roll (Simon Oslender)In Good Hands (Simon Oslender)Cruisin' (Simon Oslender)Quite Logical (Simon Oslender)Thank you for listening. If you have questions, feedback, or ideas for the show, please email me at brad@thebandwichtapes.com.
Space is silent, but the moons are screaming. To capture the music of the spheres, you have to be willing to listen to the emptiness.In this episode, we sit down with world-renowned composer Amanda Falkenberg to discuss 'The Moon's Symphony. We bridge the gap between NASA's data and the human spirit. We explore how a specialist takes the 'Gory' chaos of planetary collision and turns it into a mathematical, musical masterpiece. A work inspired by The Crescent Moon. The orbit is set. The episode is live. Step into the void.Amanda Falkenberg Link:https://www.moons-symphony.com/gateway-to-lunar
Georgie sits down with composer Mac Quayle to talk about his latest score for 'The Beauty', now streaming on Disney+ in the UK. They also chat about his work on other productions, what a composer's job really involves, and what Mac enjoys watching when he's not busy creating music.
Dr. Jill Meehan continues the commemoration of the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence by discussing the roots of American classical music and the composers who helped form the American style. "Montco's A “More Perfect Union”: Voices of the American Past, Present, and Future, a 250th U.S. Anniversary project, has been made possible in part by a major grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions, or recommendations expressed in this event do not necessarily represent those of the National Endowment for the Humanities."Recorded and editied by Quinn Szente from the College's Sound Recording and Music Technology Program
#90: My guest today is Noa Beazley, who is a composer and music educator baed out of Boston, Massachusetts. He has composed for projects like Protodroid DeLTA, A Token War, and Phosfi working across a huge variety of genres all the way to dark folk music and everything in between. She's also an assistant professor at the Berklee College of Music teaching game scoring. She's also on the Board of Directors of the Boston Game Dev community and is also an organizer for the Boston Game Audio community. In this episode, we talk about Noa's classical music upbringing, how she rebelled against the roots, an instead went on to study jazz vocals, arranging, and media composition, how she managed to find her first bits of work, negotiates for projects, balances teaching, composing, and community organizing, and so much more. Find Noa here: Website: https://www.noabeazley.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noa-beazley-b74a7620a/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/noabeazley/ Get info on The Game Industry Professional, my flagship course that teaches you how to make a great living in game audio here: bit.ly/gameindustrypro
Segun Akinola is a British-Nigerian composer for film and television. He is most known for his music in the three series of Doctor Who starring the first female Doctor, Jodie Whittaker. A BAFTA Breakthrough Brit 2017, Segun's other work includes scoring Sundance 2019 favorite and World Soundtrack Award nominee The Last Tree, Apple TV+ feature 9/11: Inside The President's War Room, and the BBC's landmark series Black and British: A Forgotten History. His recent projects include Origin: The Story of the Basketball Africa League, which premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival in September, and the BBC series Kingdom, narrated by Sir David Attenborough. Segun talks with me about music as storytelling, the importance of determination and how we undervalue asking for help, the power of curiosity to drive learning, creative growth through collaboration, and a lot more. Episode breakdown: 00:00 Introduction 04:04 Discovering music as a child. 08:37 Transformers film sparked deep interest in movie music. 12:11 Access to YouTube helped him learn about modern composers. 16:39 More composers today due to online resources and courses. 20:19 Networking and persistence led to first professional composing gig. 24:07 Collaboration and peer learning valued as much as formal education. 28:04 Focuses on music as essential part of storytelling. 32:07 Creative growth comes from tackling difficult, unexpected musical challenges. 36:37 Film scores' emotional impact, balancing craft and artistry. 41:08 Fans and social media now deeply engage with film music. 45:27 Composing for Doctor Who brought excitement and creative freedom. 50:52 Always trying new styles, learning, and refining unique sound. Want more? Here are handy playlists with all my previous interviews with guests in music and Doctor Who. Check out the full show notes (now including transcripts!) at fycuriosity.com, and join us for the Follow Your Curiosity Creativity Circle. Please leave a review for this episode—it's really easy and will only take a minute, and it really helps me reach new listeners. Thanks! If you enjoyed our conversation, I hope you'll share it with a friend.
Tony sits down with Simon Franglen, the composer shaping the sonic identity of the Avatar saga. From the intimate vocal textures of the Na'vi to the thunderous emotional crescendos that define Fire and Ash, Franglen opens up about the creative decisions, cultural inspirations, and technical innovations behind one of the most ambitious musical universes in modern cinema.
In this special podcast episode, host Peter Bauman (Le Random's editor in chief) speaks with artist and filmmaker Lawrence Lek about NOX Pavilion at The Bass Museum of Art in Miami, an immersive installation centered on a self-driving car in a “therapy” program for malfunctioning AIs.They unpack Lek's long-running NOX universe: a speculative rehab center where care can slide into control, and where machine interiority is treated as a technical defect. The conversation moves from the politics of nonhuman rights and legal gray zones (“it depends”) to Lek's recurring fascination with autonomous creative agency and what it would mean for an AI to make art as a choice that conflicts with its intended function.In the second half, Lek and Bauman widen the lens to world-building: why a world isn't one thing but multiple entry points, how ideas like Umwelt and worldview shape what any intelligence can perceive, and why Lek increasingly thinks of his simulations as “superficial models”—interfaces to reality rather than claims to foundational truth.Monday's Le Random Editorial: "Embodying AI at NeurIPS 2025: Creative AI Track" by Luba Elliott and "Ian Cheng on Composing with Systems" by Peter BaumanChapters:
Tony Kanal of No Doubt sits down with Consequence's Nicole Alvarez to talk about the band coming out of hiatus to play Coachella and the Las Vegas Sphere. He discusses reuniting the band for the first time in nine years to play at Coachella, and bringing out Olivia Rodrigo as a special guest. He also teases No Doubt's upcoming Sphere residency and peels back the curtain on what preparations to play at such a unique venue are like. The conversation also touches on Kanal's collaborations with artists like Pink, as well as his recent transition into composing for TV and film (Purple Hearts, Shifting Gears).Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
This holiday week, we're bringing you two joyful stories from 2025. Reena Esmail's childhood in Los Angeles had two soundtracks: the Western classical music her parents loved, and the old, scratchy Bollywood tapes her paternal grandparents would play over and over. Those multicultural influences shaped what would become the driving question of her work: how do you invite people from different cultures onto the same stage to build a relationship and create music together? Composing is how Esmail has made her mark — by putting Western classical musicians in conversation with Indian artists, building bridges between violinists and sitar players, tabla drummers and western singers. She has also composed with unhoused singers from Skid Row, and her music has been performed by major orchestras and choirs all over the world. In May, as part of our series on California composers, host Sasha Khokha brought us this profile of Esmail. Artists are often the people in our communities who bring people together in ways that are creative, spontaneous, and surprising. That's true in the East Bay neighborhood of Point Richmond, where a local artist has created dozens of miniature fairy houses brimming with the personality of their imaginary inhabitants. In this story from April, Pauline Bartolone set out to explore these hidden treasures, and meet the person who created them. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Antonio Sanchez has become one of the most sought-after drummers in the international jazz scene. Following 18 years and 9 albums as one of the most revered collaborators with guitarist/composer Pat Metheny, he also has recorded and performed with many other most prominent artists like Chick Corea, Gary Burton, Michael Brecker, Charlie Haden and Toots Thielemans. In 2014 Sanchez popularity soared when he scored Alejandro González Iñárritu's Birdman which ended up winning 4 Academy awards (including best picture) and for which Antonio won a Grammy award. He currently has many recordings as a leader and solo artist. Some recent recordings include Beatrio w/ Bela Fleck, Edmar Castaneda as well as his own group Migration. You can hear Anotino's masterful compositions and drumming on the award winning show The Studio on Apple TV In this episode, Antonio talks about Why he calls Barcelona, Spain his home Creating a strong reputation The realities a seasoned pro has to contend with Antonio's journey into jazz and notoriety Staying artistically and creatively curious Using your own voice when making music Composing for the movie Birdman & the TV series The Studio Creating a counter culture to social media Here's our Patreon Here's our Youtube Here's our Homepage
RU371: KLARA NASZKOWSKA ON SABINA SPIELREIN & EARLY WOMEN PSYCHOANALYSTS https://renderingunconscious.substack.com/p/ru371-klara-naszkowska-on-sabina Rendering Unconscious episode 371. Rendering Unconscious welcomes Klara Naszkowska back to the podcast! EARLY WOMEN PSYCHOANALYSTS 14-week doctoral-level course with Dr. Klara Naszkowska & Dr. Mark Beitel begins Wednesday, January 21. https://www.spielreinassociation.org/about-1 Feel free to contact Klara Naszkowska directly at spielrein @ spielreinassociation.org Be sure to pick up her book Early Women Psychoanalysts. History, Biography, and Contemporary Relevance (Routledge, 2024). https://amzn.to/3MyAUZY FREE Online Talk - Klara Naszkowska joined by Ana Tomcic to discuss her latest book ‘Early Women Psychoanalysts,' Freud Museum London on Wednesday, December 10th. https://www.freud.org.uk/event/early-women-psychoanalysts-history-biography-and-contemporary-relevance/ Register for Composing with Spielrein: Contemporary Applications of Sabina Spielrein's Work, International Interdisciplinary Conference, September 5-6, 2026, online. https://www.spielreinassociation.org/register Special issue of “American Imago” devoted to Sabina Spielrein. Guest Editor: Klara Naszkowska. https://muse.jhu.edu/issue/53646?fbclid=IwY2xjawOjr2tleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETBVSE95ZXZ4d0NuaTY5SkFLc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHvZKq98gFGt5ItKnoPvfiwgl6ydntxWogq7jhUvY1DGf8mEZckQww2huLl7i_aem_2K6FEA2Ua1Gxzk6S4U177A Check out previous episodes: RU288: KLARA NASZKOWSKA ON HER BOOK, EARLY WOMEN PSYCHOANALYSTS https://renderingunconscious.substack.com/p/ru288-klara-naszkowska-on-her-book RU107: KLARA NASZKOWSKA, CULTURAL HISTORIAN & DIRECTOR OF THE INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION FOR SPIELREIN STUDIES https://renderingunconscious.substack.com/p/ru107-klara-naszkowska-cultural-historian News & updates: Saturday, December 13th, join me for the third installment of An Introduction to Psychoanalysis. Register by becoming a paid subscriber at RU Center for Psychoanalysis: https://rucenterforpsychoanalysis.substack.com You may watch the recordings of the first two classes HERE: https://rucenterforpsychoanalysis.substack.com/t/classes Tuesday, January 20th join Mary Wild as she presents her work on Lynchian Women on David Lynch's birthday: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/lynchian-women-tickets-1968254153156 Proceeds raised go directly towards paying our presenter(s). This event will be recorded and made available for all those who register. The song at the end of this episode is "Reconstruction Of History" from the album Nile Recordings by Vanessa Sinclair and Pete Murphy: https://petemurphy.bandcamp.com/album/nile-recordings-e-p Enjoy! Thank you for being a paid subscriber to Rendering Unconscious Podcast. It makes my work possible. If you are so far a free subscriber, thanks to you too. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber to gain access to all the material on the site, including new, future, and archival podcast episodes. It's so important to maintain independent spaces free from censorship and corporate influence. Thank You.
From the Battlefield to the Recording Studio: The Donnie Reis Story.What does a classical violin, a military uniform, and a Nashville songwriting session have in common? They are all instruments in the symphony of Donnie Reis's life.In this raw and riveting episode of Talking Tipsy, host Dallas Jackson sits down with the War Hippies co-founder to trace his path from disciplined violinist to celebrated producer and composer.This is a masterclass in reinvention, exploring how to harmonize every part of your life—even the most dissonant experiences—into a career that resonates with truth.Themes We Explore:⌁ The Art of the Pivot: Trading the classical canon for the storytelling heart of Country music.⌁ Composing from Conflict: How combat in Iraq forged a deeper, more resonant songwriting voice.⌁ Inside the Producer's Booth: The shift from performer to the architect of a record's sound.⌁ Stories from the Road: Behind-the-mic moments from the Grand Ole Opry and touring with legends.⌁ Building a Band: The genesis and mission of the War Hippies.If Donnie's journey resonates with you, what was your biggest takeaway?What part of your own story is waiting to be written?
Today for Song of the Soul, we are straying far from my safe and well-known musical turf to the the wonderful works of Ivar Lunde, Jr, a prolific and accomplished composer, pedagogue, performer, and conductor. Born in Norway, educated in Norway & Austria, he has performed & taught in many corners of Europe & the USA, including 35 years teaching at the University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire. His works have been performed by at least 7 different symphony & chamber orchestras in the US & Norway.
Bryan Carter is a Grammy and Tony Award-winning drummer, vocalist, composer, arranger, orchestrator, and bandleader. After completing his training at The Juilliard School, Carter played with legendary artists including McCoy Tyner, Wynton Marsalis, Kenny Barron, and Kurt Elling. In addition to working in the worlds of film, television, and Broadway, Bryan founded "Jazz at Pride," a non-profit organization dedicated to curating performances and educational engagements featuring world-class artists from the LGBTQIA+ community. Bryan most recently served as co-orchestrator for Broadway's “Some Like It Hot,” for which he and his co-orchestrator Charlie Rosen made history as the first orchestrators to sweep all three major awards in a single season: the 76th Annual Tony Awards for Best Orchestrations, the Outer Critics Circle Awards, and the Drama Desk Awards for Outstanding Orchestrations. Rosen and Carter continued their streak of success at the 66th Annual GRAMMY Awards, winning the title of Best Musical Theater Album as producers on the recording. In the fall of 2024, Bryan premiered “Rustin in Renaissance,” a seven-movement oratorio on the life of civil-rights pioneer Bayard Rustin. The premiere was held at Jazz at Lincoln Center's Appel Room and coincided with the 20th anniversary of “The House of Swing.” In this episode, Bryan talks about: Playing multiple instruments and musical roles since early childhood His orchestration role on “Some Like It Hot” that garnered him a Tony and a Grammy His experience at Julliard, and feeling like the curriculum put him in too small a box Looking around for “who was hiring” in New York and what that looks like on that scene The New York tradition of older established artists seeking out younger musicians and giving them a platform Writing and playing for George Clooney's Broadway production of “Good Night and Good Luck” How using piano for composition has made him think of drumming from an arrangement standpoint Welcoming how different performers offer different interpretations of what he writes Here's our Patreon Here's our Youtube Here's our Homepage
This week, the boys sit down and talk to composer Edo Van Breemen about his work on Keeper! Going from the big Looney Tunes stings of The Monkey to Keeper's creaking house anti-sting and everything in between. But first, the boys burn off their Thanksgiving dinners by reviewing Wicked: For Good, Death By Lightning, Bugonia, Sisu: Road to Revenge, The Carpenter's Son, and Correia gets really into The Substitute movies (#4 is the best!). This and more on an ALL NEW EYE ON HORROR!Movies mentioned on the show: https://letterboxd.com/correianbbq/list/eye-on-horror-podcast-sn-8-ep-15/Follow us on the socials: @EyeOnHorror or check out https://linktr.ee/EyeOnHorrorGet more horror movie news at: https://ihorror.com
A Welsh man has won the waiata category in the Compose Aotearoa! national choral composition competition - for works with substantial Te Reo Maori content.
Scott and Wes dive into Remix 3, exploring how it embraces native web standards like Events, Signals, and Streams to become a truly full-stack framework. They unpack what “LLM-ready,” thin APIs, and a standards-based approach mean for the future of web development. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 03:21 Uses the platform - native Events, Signals, Streams, Fetch 04:16 Remix 3, Fully Fullstack. 04:57 LLM‑ready + thin APIs 05:53 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 06:18 My previous predictions. 07:44 The value of ‘Standards Based'. 09:13 Component model - JSX/TSX; state = variables; call this.render() 11:56 Adding reactivity to Remix. 15:15 Event‑based architecture - custom events, EventTarget, interactions 20:52 Context & type‑safe access. 22:46 Composing interaction logic within events. 24:25 Signals - AbortSignal to cancel async ops 25:21 Benefits of standards - bring your own tools/libraries Michael Asnong X Post. 26:42 CSS - built‑in CSS prop; Svelte‑like scoping 28:34 Server - Web Request/Response, Web Streams across runtimes 31:23 Frames - async URL‑addressable components with fallbacks 33:07 Tooling - ESM; use Vite or esbuild 34:47 Routing - code‑based named routes 35:57 Questions/Concerns - manual rendering vs reactivity 38:47 URL Pattern API - modern, fast routing foundations 41:33 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs. Sick Picks Scott: MoCA 2.5 Network Adapter Wes: Bosch Dishwasher Shameless Plugs Scott: Syntax on YouTube. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads
Terry Riley's "In C" is one of the most influential pieces of music of the last century...but you'll never hear it the same way twice. Guest: Evan Ziporyn, composer, clarinetist, and producer of "In C" For show transcripts, go to vox.com/unxtranscriptsFor more, go to vox.com/unexplainableAnd please email us! unexplainable@vox.comWe read every email.Support Unexplainable (and get ad-free episodes) by becoming a Vox Member today: vox.com/membersThank you! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Ep 490 - Composer Austin Wintory joins us to talk about his work on Sword of the Sea and the distinct language of writing music for games. Plus, we share our thoughts on Herdling, Shinobi, The Rogue Prince of Persia, and the July sales report. Become a patron to get the extended cut: https://www.patreon.com/posts/extended-sword-w-137615492 00:00 - Intro 02:59 - Austin Wintory, Sword of the Sea, and Music in Games 52:32 - Herdling Impressions 01:04:15 - Shinobi: Art of Vengeance Impressions 01:26:53 - RetroSpace Preview 01:33:39 - The Rogue Prince of Persia Impressions 01:49:44 - July Sales Report 02:06:27 - Also This Week 02:16:50 - L&R: Is Age Really to Blame? 02:30:50 - L&R: Differences in Interactive Music 02:35:51 - L&R: Favorite Soundtracks of 2025 02:45:00 - Bets 02:52:21 - Closing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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