Podcasts about dmed

We're finally doing what many have wanted us to do for years: we're playing DnD together! This episode and the next will follow Jeremy, Ben, and Evan through a Pokemon one-shot DMed by Ian. In this episode, you'll get introduced to our main characters, learn about a culinary quest from an ancient Mr. Mime, meet Rat Stevens and his gang, and enjoy many more hilarious adventures. The shocking conclusion of our story will be in the next episode where even more exciting action awaits.  Theme song featuring Jess Pacheco (@jessicapacheco on Instagram), find her music wherever you stream your music!  Watch Evan's film Overkill on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RdBqQz7w88 Donate to the National Immigrant Law Center: https://www.nilc.org/ Follow Us:   @ichewspod   Email Us: ichewspod@gmail.com Join our Discord: https://discord.gg/bAGJj89nFX

On today's episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by writer Daysia Tolentino to discuss whether influencers serve us at all in 2026. James Charles faced backlash for publicly mocking a recently laid-off woman who DMed him for support. And in response, some users are questioning why they even support influencers. While some creators offer niche content or services, many in the A-list are now simply famous for being famous. Meanwhile, the average American is struggling with the rising cost of living. Which begs the question: can we any longer be entertained by watching privileged people doing privileged things? This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today's episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by writer Daysia Tolentino to discuss whether influencers serve us at all in 2026. James Charles faced backlash for publicly mocking a recently laid-off woman who DMed him for support. And in response, some users are questioning why they even support influencers. While some creators offer niche content or services, many in the A-list are now simply famous for being famous. Meanwhile, the average American is struggling with the rising cost of living. Which begs the question: can we any longer be entertained by watching privileged people doing privileged things? This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On today's episode, host Kate Lindsay is joined by writer Daysia Tolentino to discuss whether influencers serve us at all in 2026. James Charles faced backlash for publicly mocking a recently laid-off woman who DMed him for support. And in response, some users are questioning why they even support influencers. While some creators offer niche content or services, many in the A-list are now simply famous for being famous. Meanwhile, the average American is struggling with the rising cost of living. Which begs the question: can we any longer be entertained by watching privileged people doing privileged things? This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, and Kate Lindsay.Need to set up your Slate Plus feed? If you subscribed through Slate.com, check out our FAQ at slate.com/podcastfaqs for easy instructions. Members subscribed via Apple Podcasts get automatic access—no setup required. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We know what you're here for FC Dallas fans. It's what we're all here for. Ryan, Garrett, and Steve break down what's happened in Burn Land since the last time they convened for the Agenda. That includes a pair of great wins against RSL and San Jose along with a hard fought loss to Vancouver. They talk about the goalie switch made during the San Jose win, how the midfield is powering Dallas through this stretch, a trio of FCD players heading to the World Cup, and of course a long discussion about THAT Sam Sarver moment and all that entails. Trust me if you want Sam Sarver talk, we've got you covered.If that wasn't enough this week Ryan and Garrett are joined by Indiana men's soccer head coach Todd Yeagley who recruited and coached Sam in college (41:20). They talk about Todd's first impressions of Sam, what he was like as a Hoosier...before Sam himself crashes the interview! It then turns into a conversation between coach and former player where Sam reveals where he got the idea for the scuba celebration, which former MLS player DMed him about it, and so much more. It's a truly fun moment you won't hear anywhere else. The FC Dallas Agenda publishes (almost) every Wednesday during the regular season as a part of the FC Dallas Radio Network. The hosts of the FC Dallas Agenda are Ryan Figert, Garrett Melcer, and Steve Davis. The executive producer of the FC Dallas Radio Network is Sam Hale. 

Welcome to the Chaotic Caves of Chaos. Where the magics are so out of sync with the natural weave of arcane energy that sometimes the wires get crossed and spells have unintended consequences. Like accidentally going full isekai.This is part 3 of “Great Kings and Venturers”, an adventure DMed by Tim where the cast plays as themselves within the Chaotic Caves of Chaos. It may take place in the same world, maybe, but it is completely separate from either Campaign 1 or 2. So no spoilers or background info needed!The adventure continues with Mike Bachmann (Mike Bachmann), Jennifer Cheek (Jennifer Cheek), Nika Howard (Nika Howard), and our Dungeon Master Tim Lanning. Edited by Vincent.Want the world to see your fan art? Post it with #DrunksAndDoodles.Find more info by clicking right here -https://linktr.ee/GAPCast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

For all those who missed out on London, see you in Miami next week!Notion, the knowledge work decacorn, has been building AI tooling since before ChatGPT, with many hits from Q&A in 2023 and unified AI in 2024 and Meeting Notes in 2025. At the end of their last Make user conference, Ryan Nystrom teased Notion 3.0's Custom Agents - and they are finally embracing the Agent Lab playbook!Sarah Sachs and Simon Last of Notion join us for a deep dive into how Notion built Custom Agents, why it took years and multiple rebuilds to get right, and what it means to turn a productivity tool into an agent-native system of record for enterprise work.We go inside the product, engineering, evals, pricing, and org design decisions behind one of the most ambitious AI product efforts in software today — from early failed tool-calling experiments in 2022 to agent harnesses, progressive tool disclosure, meeting notes as data capture, and the long-term vision for software factories and agentic work.We discuss:* Sarah and Simon's path to launching Notion Custom Agents, and why the feature was rebuilt four or five times before it was ready for production* Why early agent attempts failed: no tool-calling standard, short context windows, unreliable models, and too much complexity exposed to the model* The “Agent Lab” thesis: not just wrapping a model, but understanding how people collaborate and building the right product system around frontier capabilities* How Notion thinks about roadmap timing: not swimming upstream against model limitations, but also building early enough that the product is ready when the models are* Why coding agents feel like the kernel of AGI, and how Notion is thinking about “software factories” made up of agents that spec, code, test, debug, review, and maintain codebases together* How Sarah runs AI engineering at Notion (“notes from Token Town”): objective-setting over idea ownership, low-ego teams comfortable deleting their own work, and a culture designed to swarm around fast-changing opportunities* The “Simon Vortex,” company hackathons, and why security gets pulled in early rather than late* How Notion organizes AI: core AI capabilities and infrastructure, product packaging teams, and a broader company mandate that every product surface must increasingly work for both humans and agents* Why prototypes have become much easier to build internally, and how “demos over memos” changes product development inside a tool the whole company already uses every day* Notion's eval philosophy: regression tests, launch-quality evals, and “frontier/headroom” evals that intentionally only pass ~30% of the time so the company can see where model capabilities are going* What a “Model Behavior Engineer” is, and why Notion treats eval writing, failure analysis, and model understanding as a distinct function rather than just software engineering* The changing role of software engineers in the age of coding agents, and why the new job looks less like typing code and more like supervising a rigorous outer system of agents, PRs, and verification loops* How the “software factory” should work: specs, self-verification, bug flows, subagents, and minimizing human intervention while preserving the invariants that matter* A live walkthrough of a Notion Custom Agent handling coworking space tenant applications by triaging email, enriching applicants with web search, and writing structured data into a Notion database* How agents compose inside Notion: shared databases as primitives, agents invoking other agents, “manager agents” supervising dozens of specialized agents, and memory implemented simply as pages and databases* Notion's take on MCP vs CLI: why Simon is bullish on CLI's self-debugging nature, where MCP still makes sense, and how Sarah thinks about capability, determinism, permissioning, and pricing alignment* The evolution of Notion's internal agent harness: from early JavaScript coding agents, to custom XML, to Markdown and SQL-like abstractions, to tool definitions, progressive disclosure, and a much shorter system prompt* Why Notion cares about teaching “the top of the class,” building for sophisticated operators rather than abstracting away too much capability for everyone* How agent setup works today: agents that can configure themselves, inspect their own failures, and edit their own instructions — with guardrails around permissions* How Notion prices Custom Agents: credits as an abstraction over tokens, model type, serving tier, web search, and future sandbox costs; why usage-based pricing was necessary; and how “auto” tries to match the right model to the right task* Why Notion is not eager to train a foundation model, where they do fine-tune and optimize today, and why retrieval/ranking is one of the most important investment areas as more searches come from agents rather than humans* Why Meeting Notes became one of Notion's strongest growth loops: not just as transcription, but as high-signal data capture that powers search, custom agents, follow-up workflows, and the broader system of record for company collaboration* Why Notion is more interested in being the place where collaboration data lives than in building hardware themselves — and how wearables or other capture devices may eventually feed into that systemSarah SachsLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahmsachsX: https://x.com/sarahmsachsSimon LastLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140X: https://x.com/simonlastFull Video EpisodeTimestamps* 00:00:00 Introduction and launching Notion Custom Agents* 00:01:17 Why Notion rebuilt agents four or five times* 00:03:35 Building for where models are going, not just where they are* 00:05:32 The Agent Lab thesis, wrappers, and product intuition* 00:08:07 User journeys, leadership, and low-ego AI teams* 00:13:16 The Simon Vortex, hackathons, and bringing security in early* 00:16:39 Team structure, demos over memos, and building for agents* 00:20:25 Evals, Notion's Last Exam, and the Model Behavior Engineer role* 00:27:37 Evals as an agent harness and the changing role of software engineers* 00:30:42 The software factory: specs, verification, and agent workflows* 00:32:18 Live demo: a custom agent for coworking space applications* 00:35:08 Composing agents, manager agents, and memory as pages* 00:38:15 Notion Mail, Gmail, native integrations, and tools* 00:39:43 MCP vs CLI and the cost of capability* 00:44:13 When Notion uses MCP vs building its own integrations* 00:47:43 The history of Notion's agent harness rebuilds* 00:55:35 Power users, public tools, and the setup agent* 00:58:01 Self-fixing agents, permissions, and “flippy”* 01:01:13 Pricing, credits, and choosing the right model automatically* 01:09:01 Why Notion isn't training its own frontier model* 01:14:07 Retrieval, ranking, and search built for agents* 01:17:27 Meeting Notes as data capture and workflow automation* 01:21:18 Wearables, hardware, and Notion as the system of record* 01:23:45 OutroTranscript[00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone. Welcome to the Latent Space podcast. This is Alessio founder of Kernel Labs and I'm joined by swyx, editor of the Latent Space.[00:00:11] swyx: Hello. Hello. We're back in the beautiful studio that, uh, Alessio has set up for us with Simon and Sarah from Notion. Welcome.[00:00:18] Sarah Sachs: Thanks for having us.[00:00:19] Alessio: Thanks for having us. Yeah.[00:00:20] swyx: Congrats on the launch recently the custom agents, finally it's here. How's it feel?[00:00:26] Sarah Sachs: We ship things slowly. So it had been in Alpha for a little bit and at the point at which is it's an alpha, um, there's a group of people that are making sure it's ready for prod, and then there's a group of people working on the next thing.So sometimes some of these launches are a bit delayed satisfaction, so it's quite nice to remind yourself all the work you did because we do have a habit of like. Being two or three milestones ahead. Uh, just ‘cause you have to be, you know, you can't get complacent. Um, but it's been great that people understood how this is helpful.And I think that's just easier in general building AI tools today than it was two, three years ago. People kind of get it and so that user education, um, there's just, it was our most successful launch in terms of free trials and converting people and things like that. It was really successful, so yeah.But there's a lot to build.[00:01:12] swyx: Making it free for three months helps.[00:01:16] Sarah Sachs: Yep.[00:01:17] Simon Last: It was definitely super exciting for me because it's probably the fourth or fifth time that we rebuilt that.[00:01:22] swyx: Yes.[00:01:23] Simon Last: And I mean,[00:01:24] swyx: you've been building this since like 20, 22.[00:01:26] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, like, it was even right when we got access to like GPT four in late 20 22, 1 of the first ideas we had is like, oh, okay, let's make an agent that I, we used the word assistant at the time, there wasn't really the word, the word agent yet, but, oh, we'll give an access to all the tools the notion can do, and then it, we run in the background like, like do work for us.And then we just tried that many times and it just. Was too early. Um,[00:01:48] swyx: I need to force you to like double click on that. What is too early? What didn't work?[00:01:52] Sarah Sachs: We were fine to, like, before function calling came out. We were trying to fine tune with the Frontier Labs and with fireworks, like a function calling model on notion functions.This is right when I joined. I joined because, um, we needed a manager as Simon was needed to be able to go on vacation. So, uh, that's, that's around when I joined, so you can speak much more to it.[00:02:11] Simon Last: Yeah, we did partnerships with both philanthropic and open AI at different times, uh, to try to, at the time the, I mean, when we first tried, there wasn't even a constant of like tools yet.We, we sort of designed our own like, like tool calling framework and then we tried to fine tune the models to, uh, to use it over multiple turns. Um, and because it, it didn't work well out the box, I think. Yeah. The models are just too dumb and the context thing was also way too short.[00:02:37] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:02:37] Simon Last: Um, and yeah, we just kind of banged our head against it for a long time.Uh, unfortunately it was always like, there was always like sort of. Glimmers that it was working, but um, it never felt quite robust enough to be like a useful, delightful thing. Um, until I would say, uh, the big unlock was probably like Sonic 3.6 or seven, uh, early last year. And that's when we started working on our agent, which we shipped last year.Um, and then, and then uh, uh, custom agents, kinda a similar capability and that, that one just took longer because we, we just wanted to get the reliability up a lot higher. ‘cause it's actually running in the background.[00:03:14] Sarah Sachs: And the product interface of like permissions and understanding, you know, this custom agent is shared in a Slack channel with X group of people and has access to documents that are surfaced to Y group of people.And the intersect experts, Y might not be whole. And so how do you build the product around making sure administrators understand that permissioning took multiple swings.[00:03:35] Alsesio: Everything is hard back at the end of the day. Yeah. I'm curious, like when the models are not working, how do you inform the product roadmap of like, okay, we should probably build, expecting the models to be better at some reasonable pace, but at the same time we need to, you know, you had a lot of customers in 2022.It's not like you were a new company or like no user base.[00:03:54] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean I think there's always the balance of, you know, like you want to be a GI pilled and thinking ahead and building for where things are going. Uh, but also you wanna be like shipping useful things. And so we always try to like, like keep a balance there.You know, we. We try to take clear, like a portfolio approach. You know, we're always working on multiple projects and, and we're always trying to work on, you know, maintaining things where that have already shipped, like, like shipping new things that are like eminently working well and make them really good.And, and then we wanna always have a few projects that are a little bit crazy. Um,[00:04:23] Alsesio: and what are the a GI peel projects that you have today? I'm curious about, uh, you don't have to share exactly what you're working on, but I'm curious what are things today that maybe in 18 months people will be like, oh, obviously this was gonna work[00:04:35] Sarah Sachs: 18 months.[00:04:37] Alsesio: Yeah, 18 months is, you know,[00:04:37] Sarah Sachs: it's a long time and Yeah. Yeah.[00:04:39] Simon Last: I mean, there's a number of things happening. I think one thing that's becoming more clear is I think like, like, uh, coding agents are the kernel of EGI, sort of, everything is a coding agent. Mm-hmm. I think that's, that's sort of one, one direction.Um, and then, yeah, the exciting thing about that is sort of your agent can sort of bootstrap its own software and capabilities and actually debug and maintain them. And so yeah, we're, we're, we're thinking a lot about that. And then, yeah, like, like another category of things that I'm, I'm really excited about is like, uh, we call the software factory also.People are using this, uh, this, this sort of word. Um, basically it just means can you create sort of like a, as automated as possible, a workflow for developing debugging. Mm-hmm. Merging, reviewing, and maintaining a code base and a service where there's a bunch of agents working together inside, and like, like how does that work?[00:05:28] Sarah Sachs: If you think back to your initial question, like, why did this take so long? I think something,[00:05:32] swyx: I didn't say that, but Yes. Okay. Go ahead.[00:05:34] Sarah Sachs: Why, what, what changed over the three and half years of trying[00:05:37] swyx: it? Exactly. Right. Because most people always say like, it didn't work yet. Then reasoning models came, then it worked.I was like, okay, let's go a little[00:05:43] Sarah Sachs: bit. That's, I mean, that's part of it, but I think the other part of it that I actually think is really what will set notion apart for every new capability is we have like. Two skills that are crucial when it comes to frontier capabilities. One is not letting yourself swim upstream.So like quickly realizing if you're just pressing against model capabilities versus not exposing the model to the right information, not having the right infrastructure set up. That and of itself is the skill of intuition. And the second is to see, okay, you're not swimming upstream. Which direction is the river flowing and what is like, how do we think ahead about the product and start building it even if it's not great yet, so that when it is there, we're ready for it.Right? And like those can sometimes feel like counterintuitive things. Like we can be trying to fine tune a tool calling model when they don't exist yet. And that the trick is to not do that for too long, but realize that there was something there. And we've had a lot of things which like, um, we're just like not swimming in the right direction with the streams.I think we had multiple versions of transcription before we got meeting notes, right? Oh, I gotta talk[00:06:39] swyx: about that. Yeah.[00:06:40] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. Um, and so. I, I, I think that like we, we really closely partner with the Frontier Labs on capabilities and we also have to have strong conviction on, as those capabilities move.Notion is about being the best place for you to collaborate and do your work. And how does that narrative change if the way that we work changes?Yeah.[00:06:58] swyx: Yeah. You told me you were a fan of the Agent Lab thesis, and this is, this is kind of it, right?[00:07:02] Sarah Sachs: Right. I show that thesis to so many candidates. Like I have it as like micro chrome autofill.Um, at this point, like it's one of my most visitations[00:07:10] swyx: because like, is this the, here's why you should work in notion and not open, open eye. I, it's like,[00:07:14] Sarah Sachs: here's, here's what's different about it.[00:07:16] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:16] Sarah Sachs: And here's why. It's not just a rapper. I actually think more and more people understand it's not just a wrapper.[00:07:21] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:22] Sarah Sachs: Um, and by the way, like in the beginning, parts of what we build are wrappers on functionality. That works well, of course, but that's not really the most, um. I would say that's not the product that, that drives revenue. And that's not necessarily always what users need.[00:07:35] swyx: I mean, you know, notion is the AWS wrapper, but like the, the wrapper is very beautiful and like very, very well polished.So[00:07:40] Sarah Sachs: like the analogy,[00:07:41] swyx: like[00:07:42] Sarah Sachs: the analogy that I've been coming back to his Datadog in AWS[00:07:45] swyx: Yeah.[00:07:46] Sarah Sachs: So, uh, Datadog could not exist with, without cloud storage. Right. That it's kind of fundamental that that works. Um, and AWS has like a CloudWatch product, but Datadog is an expert on understanding how people want observability on the products they launch.And we're experts in understanding how people wanna collaborate, and that's really where our expertise lies.[00:08:04] swyx: Totally.[00:08:04] Sarah Sachs: Um, regardless of the tools that we use,[00:08:07] Alsesio: I'm kind of curious how you think about implicit versus explicit expertise. I feel like Datadog is half and half implicit and explicit. It's like they understand across markets and industries what engineering teams usually look for.With notion, it's almost like more of the expertise is at the edge because you as a platform, you're like so horizontal that the end user is not really the same. Mm-hmm. Like with Datadog, the end user is always like, yeah, an engineering lead, a kinda like SRE related person with notion. It can be anything.So I'm curious how you put that expertise into a product versus, you know, obviously it, WS cannot build notion. It's, that doesn't quite work in this case, but[00:08:44] Simon Last: it's, it's a little bit differently shaped. I think, you know, a classic vertical SaaS, like the data is kind of like that. They understand their individual customer very deeply.It's kinda a narrow slice, um, notion has always been super horizontal. And our, our task has always been to sort of balance these two somewhat opposing forces of like, we're listening to our customers and what they want us to build. It's a broad slice. And then also we're thinking about like, okay, how do we decompose what they want into, uh, nice primitives that are, that are really nice to use and we'll, we'll get us like as much bang for the buck as possible.And then, you know. Maintain the whole system, make it all like, like super clean and nice to use.[00:09:22] Sarah Sachs: We still have user journeys. I mean, we still focus on like core. I actually think the failure of our team is when we focus too much on what are cools that are, what are tools that are[00:09:31] Simon Last: mm-hmm.[00:09:31] Sarah Sachs: Cool tools. I actually think that's when we make have the least velocity because you still need some sort of focus on a user journey.So like for instance, we'll all sit down every Friday and look at the P 99 of like the most token exhaustive custom agent transcript and just look at why it didn't do well and cut a bunch of tasks. Like we still focus on like, this has, like this should work. Email triaging should work. Mm-hmm. Right. And similarly, like when we're talking about before building, um, chatting, um, before we started filming about, okay, how can I do PDF export?Well that's functionality that then merits. Maybe we should build a tool that has access to a computer sandbox in a file system and the ability to write code. Right? Right. Um, but it's because we're thinking about the fact that our users to do their, to do their daily work, need to export PDFs, not because we're like, Hmm, I think a computer tool could be cool.Like, let's just see what happens. Mm-hmm. Like we, we have to focus on some user journeys, otherwise we just don't have like, enough strategy to, to prioritize.[00:10:29] swyx: I think there's a lot of like really strong opinions that you've had. Do you have like sort of like a towel of Sarah Sachs? Like, you know, like what, how do you run your team?Like I feel like you just have accumulated all these strong opinions. Obviously part, part of this is your, your token town thing.[00:10:43] Sarah Sachs: I think the TAs working with Service X is, um, you'd have to, it depends who you ask. Um, I think it depends if you're on my team or a partner Right. Or a vendor.[00:10:54] swyx: Yeah. There other people want to run their teams the way that you're Yeah.You're like bringing these things. And then also similarly, uh, Simon, when you did the custom agents demo, you had like, well, we've been using custom agents and here's the super long list of everything that we do. No humans ever read it. Right? That's what you said. I was like,[00:11:07] Sarah Sachs: yeah. So I think for, for me, um, something that I learned very quickly and became very comfortable with was that my job was not to be the ideas per person or the technical expert.My job was to make it so that everybody understood the objective, had a resource to help prioritize what they should work on, and had an avenue to prioritize what they thought was important. And I think that's true with all, all leadership, but I think especially on the AI team. Almost all of our best ideas come from prototypes, from people that have a cool idea because they saw a user problem, and it's a huge disservice if all of those ideas have to pass, like the sniff test of what me and a product partner or Simon and Ivan decided were the direction, right?Because a lot of what we're doing is leaning into capabilities, so. I think that's the first thing is like, I don't really view like the role of engineering leadership as like, uh, hierarchical, nor has it ever been, but especially now, like very willing to change direction based on, um, like proof is in the pudding.Yeah. And like, and I think we have rebuilt our harness three or four times. And when you do that, then the second rule of engineering leadership is like you need to build a team that's comfortable deleting their own code and is very low ego and is driven by what's best for the company. And, um, doesn't write design docs because they think it's their promotion packet.Right. And that's a culture that notion had long before I joined, but like our willingness to just swarm on different problems and um, redo things that we've built before because something has changed. Like, there's a lot of friction that can happen at companies when you do that. And it doesn't happen at Notion.And because it doesn't happen when new people join. Like they don't wanna be the ones that are saying, we shouldn't do this. I wrote that code. So then it's, you know, you, you create a culture that everyone thoughts and that culture comes directly, I think from Simon and Ivan though, um, because they're very open-minded.[00:12:50] swyx: Anything that you,[00:12:50] Simon Last: you'd add? I'm not a manager, like, like, like Sarah is. Um, a lot of my role is really to try to think a little bit ahead, make sure that we're, we're building on the right capabilities and then like the prototyping stuff. And yeah, it's really, really critical to always just be starting again.It's like, okay, this is new thing. What does this mean? What if we just rethought everything or wrote everything? And so I, I'm, I'm basically just doing that in a loop every six months.[00:13:16] swyx: Yeah. Do you believe in internal hackathons for this stuff?[00:13:19] Sarah Sachs: I think there's like two different versions. So one is like, we just have a, a, a solid bench of senior engineers that come and go on what we call the Simon Vortex and Productionizing what we built, right?Because when you're in the Simon Vortex, the velocity is super high. The direction changes daily, and it's meant to be like the equivalent of a SC Works lab. We don't need to do hackathons for that. We need to have senior engineers that we trust to come in and out of those projects. For instance, like management boundaries are really loose.Like you report to him, but you work for her right now. Yeah. That's something that when we hire managers, it's important they don't care about because we tend to form more structures. Yeah. Don't be too[00:13:54] swyx: territorial.[00:13:55] Sarah Sachs: We form more. It's after we ship things, not not before, just historically. Um, the second thing is we do have companywide hackathons.Actually we just had our demos day for the hackathon we had last week this morning. That's more for people that aren't directly working on the project, feeling like they have the time to pause and learn how to make themselves more productive or how they would use notion custom agents to build something.Or part of the hackathon was actually encouraging everyone across the company to build their own agentic tool loop, calling from scratch. Follow like an every blog post on how to do what I think because we want[00:14:26] swyx: just with the compound engineering one. Yeah.[00:14:28] Sarah Sachs: We want everyone to use cloud code in the company or whatever the coding agent they please and understand that fundamental.So we set aside a day and a half. We're all leadership, encourage everyone on their teams across the company to do it. So we have hackathons like that. I would say like kind of facetiously, like everything we build is a little bit like a hackathon until it graduates and puts on big boy pants and as a product ops rollout leader and has a assigned data scientists and stuff like that,[00:14:54] swyx: security review enterprise stuff,[00:14:56] Sarah Sachs: actually security reviews one of the things that we bring in first because it just slows us down way more and, um, causes a lot of tension and they build better product if they're involved early.So, um, that is probably the first person to get involved in something that's the[00:15:09] swyx: right PR approved answer.[00:15:10] Sarah Sachs: No, but it's not just PR approved. It like, um, um, it's[00:15:13] swyx: actually real. It's actually real. It's like, um, I'm just saying scar[00:15:15] Sarah Sachs: tissue.[00:15:15] swyx: Yeah,[00:15:16] Sarah Sachs: because like, you know, my background's also, I worked at Robinhood for a number of years.Yes. So like, uh, compliance and things like that, um, are a little bit more, you learn the hard way when it doesn't come naturally.[00:15:26] Simon Last: Yeah. I think the. The hackathon is really important for uplifting the general population, but like, if that's the only way you can build new things, you're kind of toast. I mean, it, it has to be like the daily processes, like, you know, building these new things.Um, and it has to be about, I think like, I think in the AI era a lot more leverage accumulates to the most curious and excited people. And so it's like we're all about just like activating that energy. You know, like if someone's protesting something on the weekend that they're excited about and it's important, that should be the main thing that we're doing.Yeah. Um, it's not a hackathon that we schedule once a quarter, it's just like, yeah. Daily process. Part of the culture.[00:16:02] Sarah Sachs: I mean, that's how we shift image generation and notion now. It was always this thing that would be kind of nice to have, but it wasn't really clear where that was necessarily aligned in product priorities.It'd be a lot of work. And we had someone on the database collections team, Jimmy, who was like. I really wanna do image generation for cover photos and inside notion. And we're like, if you wanna build it, like it's, do it please. Like we encourage you. We gave ‘em all the resources of working directly with Gemini and being able to like track the token usage and it working through endpoints.We gave them eval, support, everything, and then became a, a full project.[00:16:34] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:16:35] Sarah Sachs: That's why you can't have like ego as a, a leader. Like that's, that's how we work.[00:16:39] Alsesio: What's the size of the team today, both engineering and overall?[00:16:43] Sarah Sachs: I manage, uh, the team. That's what we'll call it. Core AI capabilities and infrastructure.That's about 50 people. But then we have per i partner teams that do packaging. So how it shows up in the corner chat versus custom agents versus meeting notes, that's another 30, 40 people. And, and then every team that has a product service at Notion that a user can interface with owns the tool that the agent interfaces with the editor team.The team that did CRDT for offline mode is the same team that handles how two agents, um, edit competing blocks. Mm-hmm. Right? It's the same problem. The team that built the underlying SQL engine is the same team that owns how the agent asks it to run a SQL query, and it does it performantly. And so from that regard, anyone working on product engineering is tasked with making them work for customers that are humans and agents because over time the majority of our traffic will be coming from agencies using in our interface, not humans.And so. Our objective is to make it so that the whole product org is building for agents.[00:17:40] Alsesio: Yeah. How has it changed internally? The activation bar is kind of lowered a lot. Like anybody can kind of create a prototype very, somewhat easily, especially if you're like an existing code base. Have you raised the bar on like what type of prototype people need to bring forward to gonna be taken?Not like seriously, but like, you know what I[00:17:58] Simon Last: mean? Yeah. I think the bar is lowered in many ways. Be like, one thing our, uh, our team built that is really cool is our, uh, our, our design team made a whole separate GitHub repo, uh, called the, the design Playground. And it's basically just to create a bunch of like, like helper components and you, uh, for, for quickly a throwing together UIs.And it's become like actually quite sophisticated. Like it has like an agent in there and like, uh, that's pretty fun. So like, we pretty much, like, they don't do mocks, they just make like, like full, full prototypes.[00:18:27] swyx: Here it is. It works.[00:18:28] Simon Last: They give you like a u rl. They're like, okay, all right. So we have to make the, like the real production version of that.Um, and then for engineers. A prototype looks like just making it a feature flag that actually works. Like that's sort of the bar.[00:18:39] Sarah Sachs: Something to understand that's really unique about notion. One of the reasons I joined we're super lucky is no one uses Notion in their job as much as people that work at Notion.[00:18:46] Simon Last: Of course.[00:18:47] Sarah Sachs: So I think there's very few companies, maybe if you worked on Chrome I guess, but like everything that we ship, we ship internally first and get a lot of really quick feedback. And also sometimes our dev instance is totally borked and you have to change a bunch of flags to get things done. And that's kind of like, but everyone, so people that do it ticketing, people that do supply chain procurement, recruiting, everyone is using the same instance of notion with like a lot of flags on for these prototypes people build.Um, and so we have this, Brian Levin, one of the designers on our team, I think evangelize this concept of demos over memos.[00:19:18] swyx: Ooh, too[00:19:20] Sarah Sachs: good. Um, which has been, uh, very good for building demos, and I think it's put a big pressure point on us to have really strong product conviction, because if anything can be demoed, you really need a strong filter of making sure that if you know, you're doing X amount of work, you're making the, you're, you're focusing on one tower, you're not just building a really flat hill.Right. That's actually where I think there has to be more conviction from our PMs, um, and our designers and, and well, the company really to have conviction of what journey we're going on.[00:19:52] Simon Last: But overall, I feel like it works pretty well. Like people, almost all the engineers have good enough taste to realize that like, this prototype doesn't actually make sense in the product, or, or it does.So it's not that common that I would see a prototype. It's like, oh, this makes no sense. Mm-hmm. It's like, you know, people are doing reasonable things and, and, and then it's just a matter of. Which things we build first and then often just, just figuring out how to turn it on and off. There's our, in the, in our like experimental chat ui, there's this, there's probably like, like a hundred check boxes in there.[00:20:22] Sarah Sachs: Kills me[00:20:23] Simon Last: the things you could turn on and off.[00:20:25] Sarah Sachs: Uh, but I think that, okay, so that is kind of true, Simon, but like being the person that manages the evals team, like there is a level of intensity that it adds to the platform team. So, you know, if we're gonna do image generation and notion, all of a sudden the way that we do attachments and the way that we, um, our LLM completion like cortex talks and expects tokens back and now it's getting images back.Like there's a lot of platform work that we do need to, like solidify a little bit. So sometimes it'll be in dev for a couple weeks before it makes it to prod just because we still have to like, make it robust, make it HIPAA compliant, ZDR compliant, figure out the right contracting with the vendor, whatever it is.And we need to eval it because we want the team. To still maintain what they build. That's the one thing is like if we have a bunch of prototypes, it can't just be like a small group of people that then maintain whatever end prototypes. So we have invested a lot of people in an eval and model behavior understanding teams that, we call it agent dev velocity.So your dev velocity building agents can be faster if we invest in that platform. And so we have a whole org dedicated to Asian, um, platform velocity so that you can build your own eval and then maintain it once you ship it. So if a new model release comes out and we, every[00:21:38] swyx: team maintains their own eval,[00:21:40] Sarah Sachs: we maintain the eval framework.Every team owns their own evals and a lot of them we've integrated to Optin, to ci, or we run them nightly and we have a team, uh, a custom agent that triggers to a team to look at the major failures. That's really critical because if we have like all these different surfaces now, a lot of it's on the same agent harness, so it's easier to maintain.It's just packaging of different agent harnesses, but new functionality of the agent. Let's say that like we wanna update like. Uh, you know, they deprecated, sonnet, um, four or whatever it is and we need to auto update. Are[00:22:11] swyx: they already? That's so, okay. Yeah. Actually wasn't that long ago.[00:22:14] Alsesio: Theywere[00:22:14] Alsesio: just 3.5.[00:22:15] Sarah Sachs: 3.537. Just got deprecated.[00:22:18] swyx: 3 7, 5 0.2 or, yeah. No,[00:22:20] Sarah Sachs: it's not. 5.2 is five point. Five point no. Yeah, five four is 40% more expensive than five two. So if they deprecated five two, you would hear they can, you would hear from me about that one. Um, but, uh, another conversation to have.[00:22:35] swyx: I have a cheeky evals question for you.Have you noticed any secret degradation from any of the major model providers?[00:22:40] Sarah Sachs: Secret degradation,[00:22:42] swyx: like. During the War Bay, when it's high traffic, it suddenly gets dumber.[00:22:47] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. I mean, not just between the, I mean, we definitely notice flakiness, we've definitely noticed, particularly for some providers, that things are slower during working hours and[00:22:57] swyx: there's a latency argument.Yes. Not a quality argument.[00:22:59] Sarah Sachs: No. I think the quality difference that's interesting is, um, even though companies that say they're selling the same, a, it's really into like quanti quantization, but like companies that say they're selling the same model through different vendors, whether it be through first party or Bedrock, Azure, et cetera.We do see different qualities sometimes, and that's not necessarily what's advertised.[00:23:21] swyx: Yeah. Kidney went to the point of like, if we, they shipped like this, like eval across all the providers and it was like very obvious we were secret equalizing and it was very,[00:23:28] Sarah Sachs: yeah. But[00:23:29] swyx: that's very embarrassing.[00:23:30] Sarah Sachs: You know, um, we hire Subprocess to figure that out for us.So we just wanna understand where it's regressing or where it's optimized. And sometimes we're okay with regressions that optimize latency if they're the appropriate regressions. Our job is to make sure we have the evals to understand the changes that are important to us. And even like when we're partnering with labs on pre-releasees of models, they'll send us multiple snapshots.And this is less about quantization, but more just regressions. Like they have shipped models that were not the snapshots that we wanted, and they have changed the snapshots that they shipped based on the feedback that we give. Because our feedback tends to be more enterprise work focused and not coding agent focused.And definitely those can be bummers, like, you know, uh, we know that this wasn't the version you wanted, but we'll help you make it work. I mean, we always make it work, but that definitely happens.[00:24:16] Alsesio: Yeah. Do you have, um, failing evals that you're just hoping, oh, that will have success eventually when a good model comes out?[00:24:23] Sarah Sachs: Uh, I mean, yeah. So I think. I mean, I could talk about this for 60 minutes, so I will limit myself. I think it's a real issue when people say evals and it's just like, that's quality, that's like unit, I mean, it's like saying testing. It's not just unit tests, right? So. We have the equivalent of unit test.Regression test. Those live in ci, those have to pass a certain percent, you know, within some stochastic error rate. Then we have, as you're building a product, evals of these aren't passing right now, and this is launch quality. So we have a report card and we need to, on these categories, you know, be it 80 or 90% of all of these user journeys to launch, and then what we have what we call frontier or headroom evals, where we actively wanna be at 30% pass rate.And that's actually been a effort that we took in partnership with philanthropic and OpenAI in the past maybe two or three months, because we actually hit a point where our evals were saturated and we weren't able to really give insightful feedback other than it wasn't worse. And not only is that not helpful for our partners, it's not helpful for us to understand where the stream is going.You know, going back to that analogy. And so we spent a lot of time thinking about. What notions last exam looks like, right? Mm-hmm. Not just humanities, last exam. Ooh, notions last exam. Mm-hmm. And, um, there's a lot of, you know, dreams about what that would look like. I know we've talked a lot about benchmarking, um, swix, but, uh, yeah.Notions last exam is a big thing inside the company and we have people, full-time staff to it exclusively. Mm. We have a data scientist, a model behavior engineer, and an full-time, um, evals engineer just dedicated to the evals that we pass 30% of the time.[00:25:56] swyx: What you're hiring for[00:25:57] Sarah Sachs: MBEs? I am hiring[00:25:58] swyx: What is an MBEA[00:25:59] Sarah Sachs: model?Behavior Engineer Model. Behavior engineers started with a title data specialist before I joined when they were working with Simon on like, uh, Google Sheets and like Simon just needed someone to look through Google Sheets and say, yes, no, this looks bad. This looks good. Right? And so we hired people with kind of diverse linguistics background.We had like a linguistics PhD dropout. Mm-hmm. And a Stanford ate new grad. And they're amazing. And they formed a new function basically. And over time we've built a whole team, um, with a manager who's now kind of reinventing what that role is with coding agents. So they used to be kind of manually inspecting code.Now they're primarily building agents that can write evals for themselves or LLM judges. There's a really funny day I can send you the picture where Simon, about a year and a half ago, was teaching them how to use GitHub. Um, and they're on the whiteboard and it was like, okay, I think it would be so much faster if our data specialists learned how to use GitHub and like learned how to commit these things in Dakota.And, and that was then and now I think, you know, coding has been a lot more accessible. Um, but moving forward it's this mix of like data scientist PM and prompt engineer because there's craft in understanding like even like what models can and can't do things. How do we define like that headroom? How do we define like what a good journey is?Um, is this model better or not? Why is this failing? There's some qualitative work, but then there's also like a lot of instinct and taste to it, and that's not necessarily software engineering. And so we have like very firm conviction and we have had for a number of years now that that is its own career path and we have always welcomed the misfits, so to speak.So we really firmly believe that you don't need an engineering background to be the best at this job. And that's what's quite unique about this particular role.[00:27:37] Simon Last: Yeah, this is something that I've been pretty excited about recently is we made an effort basically to treat the eval system as like an agent harness.So if you think about it, like, you know, you should be able to have an agent end-to-end, download a dataset, run an eval, iterate on a failure, debug, and, and then implement a fix. And ultimately you should be able to, you know, drive the full time process with a human sort of observing the, you know, the outer uh, system.So yeah, we went, went pretty hard on that. And that's, that's worked extremely well so far. It's like basically just to turn it into a coding agent, uh, uh, problem.[00:28:11] swyx: Your coding agent or just whatever[00:28:13] Simon Last: harness No coding agent. Yeah, code, cloud code. It should be totally general. Yeah. I think if it would be a mistake to like, like fix it on any, any particular coding agent.At the end of the day, it's just like CLI tools.[00:28:21] Sarah Sachs: It's like the same way that you would've a coding agent write the unit test. You should have a coding agent write the eval.[00:28:26] swyx: Yeah.[00:28:26] Sarah Sachs: But there's a lot of supervision in that still. We just don't believe that supervision has to come from software engineers because a lot of it is like, um, kind of you XREE and whatever, and these are the people that also triage failures and tell us where we should be investing next.[00:28:40] swyx: Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and ask a spicy question. Is there a data, there are no software engineers at Notion.[00:28:46] Simon Last: Um,[00:28:46] Sarah Sachs: what does it mean to be a software engineer?[00:28:47] swyx: Exactly.[00:28:48] Simon Last: I mean, I think the way things are going is like we're on some continuum where. If, if you look back three years ago, humans were typing all the code and then we had auto complete, you're typing list of the code.Then we had sort of like filling agents, filling lines, and now we're getting into like agents doing longer range tasks where you can debug and implement a fix and then verify it works and you know, get your, get your PR even like, like Merion deployed. I think we're sort of just moving up the abstraction ladder and then the human role becomes more about observing and maintaining the outer system.There's a string of agents flowing through, like me prs what's going off the rails. Like what do I need to approve? Is there like a learning or memory mechanism that that works? So it's kind of a hard engineering problem. There's a, you know, there's, there's a lot to do there. I think we're just sort of moving up stack[00:29:34] Sarah Sachs: the same transition machine learning engineers have made, right?Like I haven't looked at a PR curve in a while.[00:29:39] swyx: Yeah. You used to do this stuff and now, um, auto research can do it,[00:29:42] Sarah Sachs: right? Like I think it depends on what you define as a software engineer.[00:29:46] swyx: Yes. It's, that's changing for sure.[00:29:49] Sarah Sachs: I think every software engineer in notion this summer went through like this, um, sheer, um, one of our engineering leads of the company called it, like every software engineer is going through the, the, uh, identity crisis that every manager goes through, where all of a sudden they realize their ability to write code is less important than their ability to delegate in context switch.And I think that is a transition out of being a software engineer. But[00:30:12] Simon Last: yeah. Yeah, there's a critical difference to being a manager, which is that like, it is actually very deeply technical. The problem, you know, humans are very like, like, like fuzzy and you can't like treat a team of humans like a, like a rigorous system where like, you know, prs like, like flow through and can be in like a block status and then what happens when they're blocked, right.With a set of agents, you actually can do that. And, and, and I think it's actually, there's a lot of interesting technical rigor that that goes into that it's like it's a technical design problem. Ultimately.[00:30:42] Alsesio: What is the design of the software factory that you're building?[00:30:46] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think we're. Trying a lot of different things.I mean, ultimately you want to design a system that requires as little human intervention as possible, but like still maintaining the in variance that, that you care about. So yeah, we're exploring a lot different ideas there. I mean, I think I could talk about a few things I think are important there.Like, one thing I think is really important is, um, having some kind of like specification layer you can just commit marked on files. Mm-hmm. That works pretty well, but[00:31:15] swyx: it's nice to be notion man. I'm just saying like the spec, like Yeah. The natural home for specs is notion.[00:31:21] Simon Last: Yeah. Right. It can be a database of pages.Yeah. I mean, it needs to be something that is, you know, human readable and I viewable and I think that's pretty key. Another really key component is like the, the self verification loop. Yes. You need really, really good testing layers, basically. And that's a really deep, uh, uh, problem. But by getting that right, you know, and then, and then it's kinda like the workflow of like.What happens when there's a bug? How does it flow into the system? Like, is it like a subagent working on it? How does it make a PR and how does that get reviewed? And me, and then, you know, so there's like the, the flow or process.[00:31:56] swyx: Yeah. Cool. Uh, you know, one thing we did work out before you guys came in was this demo or this[00:32:01] Simon Last: agents[00:32:02] swyx: agent demo.Uh,[00:32:03] Simon Last: so every,[00:32:04] Alsesio: every time we do an episode, we try the product. Right. I don't think there's ever been an episode that I haven't tried. Yeah. Um,[00:32:11] swyx: and we, we try, try is a, a big word. Like since day one lane space has been on Notion, but this is the, this is the net new thing. Yes.[00:32:18] Alsesio: So this is for Nel Labs, which is the space we're in.So next week we're opening applications for tenants. So there's a web form, let me, we got this form done here. Uh, so, uh, before. Uh, the workflow would be I get an email, then I look at the person. It was like, should I spend time talking to this person? Then I respond, they respond back. So I build this. So the name it came up for on its own.Can you maybe h how do, how does it come up with its own name?[00:32:43] Simon Last: Yeah, that's a pretty app name. It's, it, it is just a random, it's a random, a name generator.[00:32:47] Alsesio: Oh, that's funny. It just came,[00:32:49] Simon Last: the fact that it picked that is, is kind of hilarious. I'm pretty sure it's just determined,[00:32:54] Sarah Sachs: resilient collector. I, I think I've never looked at the code for that.I've never second guessed it. I think it's kind of like a madlib situation.[00:33:00] Simon Last: Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. It's, it's totally a, a deterministic. Oh, I thought it was great. Yes. Although, although when the, if you use the AI to set itself up, it can update its own name, so. Okay. Um,[00:33:11] Sarah Sachs: how did you create it? It, did you just do[00:33:12] Alsesio: classroom?I,[00:33:13] Sarah Sachs: okay.[00:33:13] Alsesio: I did, yeah. I'll say just check my inbox for applications for a coworking space. Keep a people, so it created the database for me. Which I have here. And I guess database is like an notion table because everything is notion. Um, and then whenever um, an email comes in, like here, it just creates a new role for the person.Mm-hmm. And then it uses web search to enrich the mm-hmm. The profile. So it kind of like searches the web and it's like, this is who this person is, this is when they say they wanna move in and kind of updates everything else. This is, I mean, it's not a GI, but to me, I don't wanna do this work. So it feels like, I mean, it took me maybe like 15 minutes to set up the whole thing.Um, and I really like that most of the information should live here. You know, it is not like some other tool asking me[00:34:01] Sarah Sachs: Yeah.[00:34:01] Alsesio: To like, bring my stuff there. It's like I would've probably already created an ocean thing.[00:34:06] Sarah Sachs: Mm-hmm.[00:34:06] Alsesio: So[00:34:07] Sarah Sachs: most of our biggest use cases and gains are from. That extra layer of human involvement in the process to make it so right.And so like one of our biggest use cases is bug triaging. So if someone posts something in Slack, can you just have a custom agent that lives there that has its own routing constitution of what team this belongs to, creates a task in your task database and then posts in that Slack channel, right? Like that's like one of the first things that we built internally, I think.And it's completely changed the way that notion functions as a company. Nothing falls through, well, most things don't fall through the crack. We don't know what we don't know. But it's not replacing people, it's replacing processes.[00:34:44] Alsesio: Yeah.[00:34:44] Sarah Sachs: Right.[00:34:45] Alsesio: And I'm curious how you think about composability of these things.So the other one I was working on is like a. These filler. So whenever somebody signs up as a tenant, kind of he'll sell the lease for them. There should probably some agent that is like office manager agent mm-hmm. That can handle the request, make the lease, and then, uh, give them a ADA access to the office and all of that.How do you think about that feature?[00:35:08] Simon Last: Yeah, so I mean, there's, there's two ways you can compose. One way is by using like the data primitives. So you can, you know, you, you could give, you have one agent, uh, be writing to the database and there's another agent that's walked in the database. So that's, that's one way that they, they can coordinate that's like a little bit more decoupled and mm-hmm.Works really well. Or you, you can couple them. So I, I think it's actually not released yet. Releasing it like next week is, uh, in the settings for an agent, you can give access to invoke any other agent.[00:35:34] swyx: Hmm.[00:35:34] Simon Last: So you can have them just. Just, uh, uh, talk directly. So[00:35:37] swyx: you, was there a limit on like, number of recursions or just,[00:35:40] Simon Last: um, probably,[00:35:42] swyx: you know what I mean?Like, you can just get an infinite loop that way there's[00:35:45] Simon Last: some kind of Yeah,[00:35:46] Sarah Sachs: I think it's, there is actually a number somewhere.[00:35:49] swyx: I believe I'm just, you know, like, you're, you're, someone's gonna screw up. You[00:35:51] Simon Last: should you try to see[00:35:53] swyx: Yeah. I mean, everything's gonna be paperclips.[00:35:55] Simon Last: Oh, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, but, but that's really useful.Yeah. So we, you know, like I just, I, I helped, uh, someone internally the other day, they had, they had built like over 30 custom agents for, uh, for our go to market team doing all kinds of different things. You know, for example, like researching, you know, like, like filling information about, about a customer or like, like triaging customer feedback or like, uh, something like that.Literally over 30 of them. And, and then he, and then he even made like a database of all the agents and then he is like, okay, and, and now I'm getting 70, over 70 notifications per day with just the agents are blocked on various things. Uh, and then I was like, oh, okay, cool. You know, the obvious thing to do there is to make a manager agent,[00:36:32] Sarah Sachs: right?[00:36:33] Simon Last: That's gonna sort of blocks be another abstraction layer in between your, your, uh, uh, 30 agents. Uh, so yeah, we, we send out with like a manager agent and then has access to invoke all the other agents and it's sort of like, like watching and observing them and then it sort of, it just creates a layer of abstraction.So instead of 70 notifications per day, it's like, like five. And then, and then the manager agent can help like, uh, debug and fix any problems with the,[00:36:54] swyx: does this is a concept of like an inbox or something like piece, you're basically saying that they can message each other?[00:37:00] Simon Last: Yeah.[00:37:01] Sarah Sachs: Well[00:37:01] swyx: they use the system of record, which, which is[00:37:02] Sarah Sachs: notion, so we[00:37:03] Simon Last: actually, yeah, we didn't make any special concepts at all.[00:37:06] swyx: They're interested to the motion notifications that I would've got,[00:37:09] Sarah Sachs: they can just like write a task to a database that the other agent's task to listening to, or they can actually call a web book to the agent, like they can just add the agent. Okay.[00:37:17] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, this is something that, that we're still working on.I, I think we, you know, like, like generally, generally the way we do these things is, you know, you first make it possible, maybe like a sort of janky way. So I, I, I think the way I set ‘em up is like, you know, we created like a new database that was sort of like issues mm-hmm. That the custom agents were, were experiencing, and then gave them all access to file an issue and then the manager has access to, to read the issues.Um, and that works pretty well, essentially like, like give it its own like internal issue tracker just for the agents. And then, you know, if that becomes a, a concept that seems useful, generally maybe we will think of how to package it in. But I mean, generally we try to just keep it to composing the primitive if we can.You know, another example of this is we have no built-in memory concept. Memory is, is just pages and databases. And so if you wanna give a memory, just give it a page and give it. Edit access to that page and the[00:38:03] swyx: human can edit it. Agent can edit[00:38:04] Simon Last: it. Yeah. And so that works, that pattern works extremely well on it.And you know, depending this case, you can have it be just a page or it could be an entire database with, you know, or, you know, I can have sub pages is is pretty on what you can do with that.[00:38:15] Alsesio: So when I was setting this up, uh, I connected my inbox and it was like, do you wanna use Gmail or Notion Mail? And I'm like, I don't wanna use Eater, I just want you to do it.I'm curious how you think about, you know, notion, mail, notion, calendar, all of these kind of ui ux interfaces, full stack[00:38:29] Simon Last: notion.[00:38:30] Alsesio: Yeah. When like at the same time you have the agents abstracting them away from you in a way, you know, how do you spend like the product calories so to speak?[00:38:37] Simon Last: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty important that you don't have to use, not your mail to connect to the mail capability.So we can just connect to Gmail or, or whatever you want, uh, to use. And we're thinking of the mail service as being really great to the extent that it's really agent built, right? So maybe the mail app is just sort of a prepackaged agent that helps you automate your, your inbox.[00:39:00] Alsesio: Yeah, the auto labeling is great.Think[00:39:03] Sarah Sachs: the, when we, um, integrate with Gmail for instance, we have a series of tools available that are available via MCP or API to Gmail. When we integrate with Notion Mail, we have the Notion Mail engineering team to build us the, um, exact right tools that optimize latency, optimize performance and quality.They own that quality. Um, there's product leads there. They're directly thinking about the user problems that happen in mail. So it tends to be when we build integrations and connections, we build natively first. Um, and then think about, um, extending them generally just because it's also easier. Mm-hmm. Um, um, to build natively first.Um, so that tends to be how we phase things out.[00:39:43] swyx: Talking about integrations, you prompted me, so I gotta ask. M-C-P-C-L-I. What's going on? What's the[00:39:48] Simon Last: Yeah. Opinion. I think, I mean, I'm, I'm definitely bullish and excited about cli. I think there's a few really cool things about cli. So one really cool thing is like, um, is that it's in the terminal environment, so it gets a bunch of extra power.So it, you know, for example, it can like, like paginating and cursor through like long outputs. Um, and it has a progressive disclosure inherently. Uh, so, you know, you don't see all the tools at once. It's just, you see the CLI wrapper and you can like use the, the help commands and, and, and read files. And then I think the most important thing that's, that's super cool is that there, it's also inherently a, a bootstrapped.So if there's an issue, uh, the agent can debug and fix itself within the same environment that it uses the tool.[00:40:30] swyx: Mm.[00:40:30] Simon Last: Right. Like, you know, I think I saw a tweet this morning. Someone said, you know, my agent didn't have a browser, so I asked it to make all a browser tool and within a hundred lines of code, it gave itself a little browser, like, like wrapping the, the, the chromium API, um.That's pretty incredible. And then if there was a bug, it would just immediately try to fix it. Mm-hmm. Right. On the other hand, if you use an, you know, if you use like of, of the Chrome dev tools, MCP, I've had this issue where like, like sometimes the transport gets like messed up. If it gets messed up, the agent has no way to fix itself.It, it no longer has a browser, it's, it's not broken. Right. I think that's, that's pretty fundamental, but I would say like a lot of the, the bad things about it can be fixed. Uh, so I think like, as a progressive disclosure, that can be fixed with, with right harness. Like, it, it obviously doesn't make sense to show it all the tools all the time.That's not really inherent to the MCP protocol. It's just like how you wrap it and use it.[00:41:16] swyx: There's many poorly built MCPs because we didn't know.[00:41:19] Simon Last: Yeah, yeah. I mean it was just early, like, like the obvious thing is, uh, you know, to start with is, is to just show it all the tools and it's like, okay, now we have a hundred tools.Yeah. And like the tool calling actually works. So let's of[00:41:28] swyx: your success[00:41:29] Simon Last: give it a way to like, like filter to source the tools. So yeah, I would say like broadly speaking, I'm really bullish on cli. I'm still bullish on CPS and in a certain environment. I think in, in particular, CP is really great for when you want sort of like a narrow, lightweight agent.I think there's, there's definitely a lot of use cases where, where you don't want like a full coding agent with a compute run time. And also you want it to be like more tightly permissioned. MCP inherently has a really strong permission model, like all you can do is call the tools. A CLI is a little bit murkier.It's like, can I access the, if PI token are you, like, properly sort of like re-encrypt the token so it can't like exfiltrate it, it introduce a lot of like, like new issues, which are. Real and hard to solve. And MCP is just like the dumb simple thing that works and it that it's pretty good.[00:42:12] Sarah Sachs: I'll add two more perspectives, not from it working well for Notion, but how notion like commits to both platforms.Notion is dedicated to being the best system of record for where people do their enterprise work. So we will always support our MCP and so far as other people are using cps, right? So regardless of our perspective, we've put a lot of effort into our MCP and we have a fantastic team that we're building, um, to do more there.And the second thing I'll say, I think, um, we all think a lot, but lately I've been thinking a lot about making sure there's a value alignment and pricing, um, with capability.[00:42:43] swyx: Literally our next question[00:42:44] Sarah Sachs: and. Needing language to execute deterministic tasks feels wasteful and requiring on a language model to interface with third party providers seems wasteful for tasks that don't require it.And particularly because our custom agents are using usage-based pricing. We think of pricing as like the barrier of entry for use of our product, and we're quite committed to making sure that it's not wasteful. Um, not just because it's a bad deal for our customers, but it's also bad business. We wanna have as many buyers, like there's a, there's an elasticity of demand and so if we can have our agents properly execute code that calls on CLI deterministically, it's a one-time cost, right?Versus constantly having a language model integrate with an MCP over and over and over and paying those like repeated token fees and it's happening outside the cash window, then you're paying for it over and over and over and it's just kind of unnecessary and less deterministic when it doesn't have to be.[00:43:36] Alessio: Yeah, the open-endedness I think is like, the main thing is like, well, if I go write code to just call an API, I would never use an MCP. But then you need an NCP sometimes when you know what to call, but you don't want it to restart versus like, I think the it built a browser from scratch is like, it's great when you're doing it on your own, but like if your customers were having your AI write a browser from scratch every time and you had to pay the token cost of that, yeah.You'd be like, no, no. The Chrome dev tools CP is actually pretty great. Just use that. I'm curious, how do you make that decision? Like should it be. Just straight API call very narrow. Should it be an MCP? Should it be super open-ended?[00:44:10] Sarah Sachs: Do you mean for when we ship notion capabilities or when we add capabilities to[00:44:13] Alessio: notion[00:44:14] Sarah Sachs: AI or,[00:44:14] Alessio: I mean, you might have a capability that the only way to do is an open-ended agent, like an agent with a coding sandbox.[00:44:21] Sarah Sachs: Yeah. In Notion ai they're not explicit, not We also ship an MCP.[00:44:24] Alsesio: Yeah. Yeah. In B,[00:44:25] Sarah Sachs: yeah.[00:44:26] Alsesio: Internally. Okay. Like is there ever a discussion of like, we're not gonna ship it because we're not able to tie it down? Or are you happy to just like,[00:44:33] Sarah Sachs: um, no. I mean, there are a lot of things where we choose not to use MCP because we wanna add more high touch to quality.I think search an agent to find is like the largest instance of that, where we have. Um, slack and linear and Jira search and notion that is not using necessarily the search MCP functionality that is provided by those companies. And that's because it's quite critical we think, to how our agent trajectories work is for us to have a little bit more control on the functionality of the search journey.And so it usually comes from quality and there's a long tail of things and that's why we built an MCP client or an MCP server, excuse me, so that people can connect whatever they want. There's that long tail, right. But we, for search particularly, I would say that's like the primary entry point, but there are other connections as well that it's a little bit of secret sauce a

This week on Two Parents & A Podcast, we're coming off Easter weekend (still in our pastels!) and Harrison is officially petitioning for no work on Easter Mondays (too much Aperol!) Which got us thinking... when did Easter become Christmas in spring?!  That turns into a bigger conversation about gifts, toys, and the very real question of whether your kid can actually have TOO MANY (especially once you find the one toy they'll play with for 30+ mins and suddenly everything else in the room starts feeling unnecessary).  We also get into postpartum prep for baby #2, and how buying all of that stuff again brought back a LOT of memories from the first time around (some of which I think I had conveniently blocked out). We talk through what we actually need this time, what we're doing differently with baby #2, and why second-time prep feels way less chaotic. Then we get into the toddler phase we're very much in right now: teaching street safety without fully terrifying yourself (and the toddler!!!), whether “gentle parenting” got a bad rap, and what a kid under 2 can actually understand when you're trying to keep them safe. Plus, a little reality TV break (we see the comments are mixed - skip this section if you hate it, comment what we should watch next if you love it) , audiobooks vs. reading (pt. 2983482), the commenter who may have finally solved Harrison's cough, and two fun things we DMed eachother: Japan Airlines' baby icon and the Chick-fil-A family phone challenge. LOVE YOU GUYS!  Timestamps:  00:00:00 Welcome back to Two Parents & A Podcast! 00:03:12 When did Easter become “spring Christmas”?!  00:09:53 Can your kid have TOO MANY toys? 00:15:33 Prepping your postpartum kit 00:23:00 What we're doing differently with baby #2 00:28:50 Skip this section if you don't like reality TV lol :) - Summer House, SLOMW, The Kardashians 00:46:54 Phone-free family time update 00:48:00 How do you teach your 2-year-old not to run into the street? 00:50:50 Is Harrison a “gentle parent”?!  00:53:41 Have you heard of Safety Town?! 00:57:10 S/o to the commenter who solved Harrison's cough 00:58:59 Audiobooks vs. reading revisited 01:02:15 THINGS WE DMED EACHOTHER: Japan Airlines features a "baby icon" on its seat map during booking 01:04:56 THINGS WE DMED EACHOTHER: The Chick-fil-A Family Phone Challenge 01:09:50 LOVE YOU GUYS!  #twoparentsandapod -------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsors this week: *Wayfair: Head to https://www.wayfair.com April 25–27 for Way Day — shop Wayfair's best deals across home, with up to 80% off and fast, free shipping on everything. *ZipRecruiter: Post jobs for free at https://www.ziprecruiter.com/ALEX *Veracity: For up to 65% off your order, head to https://www.VeracityHealth.co and use code TWOPARENTS.  *NOCD: If you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NOCD can help. Book a free 15 minute call to get started: https://learn.nocd.com/TWOPARENTS -------------------------------------------------------------- Listen to the pod on YouTube/Spotify/Apple: https://www.youtube.com/@twoparentsandapod https://open.spotify.com/show/7BxuZnHmNzOX9MdnzyU4bD?si=5e715ebaf9014fac https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-parents-a-podcast/id1737442386 -------------------------------------------------------------- Follow Two Parents & A Podcast: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/twoparentsandapod TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@twoparentsandapod Follow Alex Bennett: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexbennett TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexbennett Follow Harrison Fugman: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/harrisonfugman TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@harrisonfugman -------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: Just Media House – https://www.justmediahouse.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

*Timestamps are approximate* TIME TOPIC 0:00 Podcast intro with Dave & Chuck "The Freak"0:01 - - - AD MARKER - - -0:01 Guy was nearly sentenced for possession of cocaine that was actually baking soda0:04 Guy found hiding in the ceiling after his phone started ringing0:06 A discarded sex doll was mistaken for a dead body0:29 When you had to call 911 on a date0:40 - - - AD MARKER - - -0:40 2 guys shoot at eachother in restaurant0:44 Guy wearing only a lady's top drove into jail lobby, threatened to set himself on fire0:48 Naked guy chopped off another man's hand with a machete0:50 Naked guy arrested for exposing himself on the beach0:53 MALICIOUS FECAL DISTRIBUTION0:53 Guy pooped at the front door of a shop0:58 Giraffe picked little girl up out of car at drive thru safari park1:01 Online store selling used tampons1:07 - - - AD MARKER - - -1:07 Couple tried to hide cocainse in a burger during traffic stop1:12 Guy seen driving his truck in reverse down the highway1:17 Guy called 911 on his neighbor over the litter box1:22 Wife found texts that her husband was sending to hookers1:32 Cop busted having sex multiple times while on duty1:38 Sperm donor fathered his 165th child1:48 - - - AD MARKER - - -1:48 ASK DAVE & CHUCK "THE FREAK"1:48 EMAIL: Caught a guy using the urinal water to rinse his dong1:57 EMAIL: Should she be mad that her boyfriend got a lapdance2:04 EMAIL: College professor DMed him to get drinks together2:08 EMAIL: Found hotel with pool, hottub and sauna right in your own room2:24 - - - AD MARKER - - -2:24 Woman who bonded with her husband by breast feeding him2:29 - - - AD MARKER - - -2:29 Followup on a teacher who was caught filming adult content in her classroom END OF SHOWSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome back to Ready or Not, the show where Loz and Lu try to figure out how to make work, work alongside motherhood. Today on the show:How important are work relationships or really relationships in general? Loz was listening to a Mel Robbins podcast episode ‘called “This One Study Will Change How You Think About Your Entire Life” and it got her thinking Jemima Kirke Gives Her Most Honest Parenting Advice Yet: One of our listeners DMed this piece and we had to talk about it. Got a question? Submit it anonymously here! —Thanks for listening! If you liked the show, please tell your friends, subscribe or write a review.You can also find us on Instagram:@readyornot.pod@laurentreweek_@lucindamckimm_And join us on DOME below! YEEHAW!homeofdome.com/ready-or-not/— This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Boon Wurong people of the Kulin Nation. The land on which we're lucky enough to raise our sons and daughters always was and always will be Aboriginal land. We Pay The Rent and you can too here.This episode is brought to you by Saily eSim! Get 15% off your eSim https://saily.com/readyornot and use our code 'readyornot' at checkout to get an exclusive 15% off your first purchase.Available in over 200 destinations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Fresh off two brutal weeks bedridden from a back injury he did to himself, Opie is back in the chair and immediately drags Ron into the chaos for the unfiltered catch-up you've been waiting for. They break down the insane Anthony Cumia DM saga (“he DMed me to say he didn't DM me”), the alleged punch outside Rodney's during Stuttering John's set, war songs that slap, the Cambridge study proving you got your brains from Mom, and a Rock Hall nominees tease that'll have you yelling at the screen. Pure O&A energy, zero filter — hit play and welcome Opie back where he belongs.

This week's True Crime Today Live review covers the Sarah Grace Patrick case with former FBI Special Agent Jennifer Coffindaffer as trial approaches January 5th.Seventeen-year-old Sarah Grace Patrick stands accused of murdering her mother Kristin Brock and stepfather James Brock while they slept in their Carroll County, Georgia home. Her five-year-old sister discovered the bodies. For five months post-homicide, Sarah posted tearful TikToks, DMed true crime creators asking for coverage, and told one influencer her story "would be a really big hit." Then she was arrested.Prosecutors claim mountains of evidence. What they've actually shown: TikTok videos, messages to content creators, and an eulogy investigators found suspicious. No confirmed murder weapon. No stated motive. Defense attorneys say discovery is still incomplete with trial weeks away.Jennifer Coffindaffer — 32 years in federal law enforcement — breaks down what this evidence actually means and examines the family background that's been largely overlooked. Court filings reveal Sarah told police at age eleven she felt unsafe in her mother's care. Drug allegations appear throughout custody documents. James Brock was on meth probation. He once accused Kristin of trying to kill him with her car — then married her. Sarah's teenage brother sued for emancipation. This wasn't a stable home.The Brock family filled the courtroom demanding Sarah stay jailed. Her maternal grandfather insists she's innocent. Friends showed up in "I Stand with Sarah" shirts. Bond denied. And the state's key witness is a six-year-old girl being asked to testify against her own sister. Trial starts in days.#SarahGracePatrick #TCTLive #JenniferCoffindaffer #KristinBrock #JamesBrock #FBI #CarrollCounty #MurderTrial #TrueCrime #TrialPreviewJoin Our SubStack For AD-FREE ADVANCE EPISDOES & EXTRAS!: https://hiddenkillers.substack.com/Want to comment and watch this podcast as a video? Check out our YouTube Channel. https://www.youtube.com/@hiddenkillerspodInstagram https://www.instagram.com/hiddenkillerspod/Facebook https://www.facebook.com/hiddenkillerspod/Tik-Tok https://www.tiktok.com/@hiddenkillerspodX Twitter https://x.com/tonybpodListen Ad-Free On Apple Podcasts Here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/true-crime-today-premium-plus-ad-free-advance-episode/id1705422872

Harry Jowsey is on the pod today! Harry is the host of Boyfriend Material and you've definitely seen him in a few of your favorite reality tv shows. His upcoming show “Let's Marry Harry” is going to be so much fun. We discuss the taxi cab theory, when to trauma dump, celebs he's DMed with, dating with grief, what he's worked on in therapy, and so much more!Get More We Met At Acme!Youtube: @wemetatacmeIG: @lindzmetz @wemetatacme @wemetatbabySubstack: @wemetatacme + @wemetatbabyWebsite: @wemetatacmeSponsors:Head to coterie.com and use code ACME20 at checkout for 20% off your first order.Head over to meritbeauty.com and get their Signature Makeup Bag free with your first order.Use code ACME at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year.Visit prolonlife.com/ACME to claim your 15% discount and your bonus giftChapters:00:00 Meeting Harry's Wife42:53 Perceptions and Realities43:00 Different Perspectives43:16 Striving for Positivity43:20 Balancing Coolness and Warmth00:33 Conclusion: Who's Cooler?Produced by Dear Media. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome to the Chaotic Caves of Chaos. Where the magics are so out of sync with the natural weave of arcane energy that sometimes the wires get crossed and spells have unintended consequences. Like accidentally going full isekai.This is part 2 of "Great Kings and Venturers", an adventure DMed by Tim where the cast plays as themselves within the Chaotic Caves of Chaos. It may take place in the same world, maybe, but it is completely separate from either Campaign 1 or 2. So no spoilers or background info needed!The adventure continues with Screech Echo (Mike Bachmann), Selene Von Esper (Jennifer Cheek), R'Oarc (Nika Howard), T'Chuck (Tim Lanning), and our Dungeon Master Michael DiMauro. Don't forget to follow our editor David Stewart! Want the world to see your fan art?Post it with #DrunksAndDoodlesFind more info by clicking right here - https://linktr.ee/GAPCast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to the Chaotic Caves of Chaos. Where the magics are so out of sync with the natural weave of arcane energy that sometimes the wires get crossed and spells have unintended consequences. Like accidentally going full isekai.This is part 1 of "Great Kings and Venturers", an adventure DMed by Tim where the cast plays as themselves within the Chaotic Caves of Chaos. It may take place in the same world, maybe, but it is completely separate from either Campaign 1 or 2. So no spoilers or background info needed!The adventure continues with Screech Echo (Mike Bachmann), Selene Von Esper (Jennifer Cheek), R'Oarc (Nika Howard), T'Chuck (Tim Lanning), and our Dungeon Master Michael DiMauro. Don't forget to follow our editor David Stewart! Want the world to see your fan art?Post it with #DrunksAndDoodlesFind more info by clicking right here - https://linktr.ee/GAPCast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of 'Don't Cut Your Own Bangs,' host Danielle Ireland introduces John Kippen, a resilience and empowerment coach, magician, and motivational speaker. John shares his incredible journey of overcoming a life-threatening brain tumor and how it transformed his life and career.  Throughout the episode, John discusses his healing journey, the power of vulnerability, and the importance of facing one's limiting beliefs. He also reveals the origins of his unique phrase 'impossible really means I am possible' and offers a special gift to listeners. Tune in to uncover valuable wisdom nuggets and be inspired by John's story of triumph over adversity.   00:00 Introduction to the Episode 00:40 Meet John Kippen: A Multihyphenate Talent 01:23 John's Life-Altering Diagnosis 05:46 The Surgery and Its Aftermath 08:04 The Road to Recovery 13:30 Embracing the New Normal 17:29 The Power of Truth and Magic 29:14 The Power of Magic and Connection 29:31 Introducing Treasured: A Journal for Self-Discovery 30:44 The Magic of Personal Connection 32:59 Overcoming Personal Struggles Through Magic 34:38 The Journey to Self-Acceptance 35:42 The Importance of Asking and Vulnerability 50:24 The TED Talk Experience 54:34 Final Thoughts and Encouragement   RATE, REVIEW, SUBSCRIBE TO “DON'T CUT YOUR OWN BANGS”  Like your favorite recipe or song, the best things in life are shared. When you rate, review, and subscribe to this podcast, your engagement helps me connect  with other listeners just like you. Plus, subscriptions just make life easier for everybody. It's one less thing for you to think about and you can easily keep up to date on everything that's new. So, please rate, review, and subscribe today.    DANIELLE IRELAND, LCSW I greatly appreciate your support and engagement as part of the Don't Cut Your Own Bangs community. Feel free to reach out with questions, comments, or anything you'd like to share. You can connect with me at any of the links below.   JOHN KIPPEN: https://www.ted.com/talks/john_kippen_being_different_is_my_super_power_magic_saved_my_life   https://www.johnkippen.com   DANIELLE IRELAND, LCSW Website: https://danielleireland.com/ The Treasured Journal: https://danielleireland.com/journal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielleireland_lcsw TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dontcutyourownbangspod?_t=ZP-8yFHmVNPKtq&_r=1 Transcript:   John Kippen Edited Interview [00:00:00] [00:00:07] Hello. Hello, this is Danielle Ireland and you are catching an episode of Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. And today I have the great pleasure of introducing you to someone I can now call a new friend John Kippen. John is a multihyphenate. He has had quite a life and he's an excellent storyteller. So this episode you're gonna wanna buckle up. [00:00:31] It is so good. Get those AirPods in, go on your walk, get safely in your car, get ready to listen because this is just an absolutely beautiful episode. But let me tell you a little bit about John. John is a resilience and empowerment coach. He was and is the CEO of a very successful IT company. [00:00:49] He was a main stage performer at the Magic Castle in Los Angeles, so if that just gives you a little insight, is the level of his magic. He is a motivational speaker. He's a life coach, and. He has a TED talk that has received over a million views. And the heartbeat of this TED talk is how he triumphs over tragedy with a diagnosis of a tumor the size of a golf ball that is separating his brainstem and the procedure he needed to save his life, changed his life forever. [00:01:23] Doing the work of healing does not come easily to anyone, but as John so beautifully puts in this episode, if John can do it, you can do it. He's using his stories, his vulnerable and raw experiences, and talking about not only what happened to him, but how he moved through the impossible. [00:01:45] He actually coins a phrase that I love and I'm going to keep. Which is that impossible really means I am possible. So the ultimate magic trick, the ultimate illusion is what your limiting beliefs are about yourself, and how do you use facing those fears and those limiting beliefs to transform your life. [00:02:08] And in John's case, he takes that healing and offers it as a gift to us. As listeners to his clients and his coaching practice to the readers of his book, he has authored a book The Forward by None other than the Jamie Lee Curtis from all of the places. You know her most recently. The Bear where she won an Emmy, but everything everywhere, all at once. [00:02:32] She and John are buds, and she believes in him and believes in his work, and as a champion of that work, it just adds a little extra sparkle and fairy dust to the beautiful work that he's already doing to say that he's been vetted by someone who is so sparkly and magnetic and also deeply entrenched in holding space for the truth and honoring the truth. [00:02:52] This is a heartfelt episode, so what I would recommend. If you're in a place to do so is you might wanna jot some notes down because John drops some beautiful wisdom nuggets in this episode. And the book that he authored is playing The Hand You're Dealt. And what I wanna share too, we talk about it in the episode, but I wanna highlight this 'cause it's really important. [00:03:12] John is giving everyone who listens to the episode a free gift, but it is not linked in the show notes. It is only available to those of you who listen. It's a special little surprise embedded in the episode that you have to listen to find, but it is a free gift from him to you. So without further ado, get ready to sit back, relax, and enjoy the beautiful wisdom of John Kippen. [00:03:35] ​ [00:03:36] Kippen, multihyphenate resilience and empowerment, coach magician, keynote speaker, author, and all around. Nice guy. Thank you for joining me today on the Don't Cut Your Own Bangs podcast. [00:03:47] Danielle: Hollywood legend wrote the forward of his beautiful book, playing the Hand You're Dealt Forward by the one and Only Take It Away, John, Jamie [00:03:58] John: Lee Curtis. [00:03:59] Danielle: Jamie Lee Curtis. Yes. So you have to stay and listen to the entire episode because he's going to tease out a special little giveaway that will only be revealed in the audio. [00:04:10] So you gotta listen. It's not gonna be linked in the show notes, folks. So buckle up, sit down. This is gonna be a great episode with a fun gift for you, a special little dose of magic hidden inside. So, John, you, I mean, all the different fun things that we listed about what you do. You're a magician, you're a motivational speaker, you're a coach. [00:04:30] What I know doing the work I do as a therapist is the skills and trade that you're building your life on. Those were skills that they were. Hard one, like nobody chooses, in my opinion and in my experience, no one chooses to go into a helping profession that hasn't needed help in their life. It's like the, our healing becomes our medicine. [00:04:54] And I really wanna learn about not just what you offer, but your healing journey that put you in the unique position you're in to do the work you do. So, welcome and I'd love to hear from you. [00:05:05] John: So just quickly, the Reader's Digest version of my backstory. Grew up Los Angeles, middle class family, two great parents loving, no sisters or brothers, had everything I needed. [00:05:18] They sent me to a nice school and, I got into theater, started doing theater, in college. I studied theater and became the big man on campus because pretty much I grabbed every opportunity that presented itself. Started a computer company out of college. 'cause I'm a creative problem solver. [00:05:38] That's the thread that goes through everything I do in my life. [00:05:42] Mm-hmm. [00:05:42] John: I look at a problem, I say, how am I gonna solve that? [00:05:45] Mm-hmm. [00:05:46] John: And then in June of July of 2002, I was diagnosed with a four half centimeter brain tumor called an acoustic neuroma. [00:05:55] Danielle: Yes. And this was, so it was slowly severing your brainstem? Correct. [00:05:59] John: It was displacing the brainstem. Causing not only hearing issues, but dizziness upon standing or walking. [00:06:07] Mm-hmm. [00:06:08] John: I had to have something done with it. I would not have survived. [00:06:12] Mm-hmm. [00:06:14] John: And. It was a whirlwind , I went and saw the doctor who finally diagnosed it after seeing him the MRI films, and he, he had no bedside manner. [00:06:25] I remember sitting on the examining room table, right. And the, the tissue paper is crinkling under my butt. Mm-hmm. I could feel the, I could sense the temperature. I'm heightened sensitivity. [00:06:37] And he looks up at the MRI after talking to a neurosurgeon, and he turns around and says, John, you have a four and a half centimeter brain tumor. [00:06:46] It's killing you. We're operating you on Friday. You're gonna go deaf in your left ear, and there's a possibility for some facial weakness. We're gonna do everything we can to prevent that. And he left [00:07:01] Danielle: the room. So he knew, and in his own. Brash in abrupt way, essentially prepared you for the outcome and challenges that would come assuming the surgery was a success? [00:07:17] John: Yeah. He is a world renowned acoustic neuroma surgeon. He's one of the guys you go to, when you have this kind of tumor and that's all he does. Wow. But he literally left the room and I'm sitting there and I didn't bring anybody in and [00:07:31] yeah. [00:07:32] John: A tip to anyone who's potentially going in for a serious diagnosis. [00:07:36] Yeah. [00:07:37] John: Bring a friend or a family member. [00:07:39] Because it goes in one ear and out the other, you're in shock. Right. Right. When you get home and you say, wait a minute, he said that surgery gonna be four hours or 14 hours or 20. How, how long ago and you have all these questions. Yeah. And you know, getting ahold of the doctor to ask them again is just not the way our medical system works. [00:08:01] He's back to back, to back to back patients. [00:08:04] So, I checked in the night before, they did blood tests and I tried to get an hour or two sleep, 6:00 AM my clockwork the orderly came in and said, okay, get naked, get on this cold gurney. What a sheet over you and we're going take you to the operating room. [00:08:21] Danielle: I wanna pause your story for a moment. 'cause there's a couple things that I, I wanna tease out a little. So one is you, the way that you tell your story, so well probably because you've told it on stages, you've shared it with others, you've written about it. There is something about a trauma. [00:08:37] That really marks the sort of BCAD of life. And the way you shared, I felt like I was in the room with you when you were getting this bomb of news dropped on you so you were theater trained, theater kid, a creative person, a creative problem solver, and a business owner. [00:08:57] Like I, I think about that often when people are experiencing trauma. What, what was life sort of the, the illusion of normalcy. The, the, you know, the predictability of this is my life and this is my to-do list and this is my calendar. So before that moment, you were just a guy on the west coast running a business. [00:09:17] Is that right? [00:09:18] John: Very successful business. [00:09:19] Danielle: And I, I just wanna share briefly too, I haven't met too many other only children. Theater background 'cause that's me too. [00:09:30] John: Oh, really? [00:09:31] Danielle: I'm an only child and I was a theater major and started acting when I was 13, so before. But, the creative problem solver, God, my theater background has paid dividends in ways I didn't know at the time. [00:09:42] I didn't know that when I was preparing for this interview, but now that you've said that, it's like that thing that I couldn't put my finger on has clicked into place. [00:09:49] John: I love doing improv. [00:09:51] Improv is the, you know, everybody talks about being in the moment. [00:09:57] Yeah. [00:09:57] John: What does that really mean, being in the moment? [00:10:00] When you do improv, you have to be in the moment. Otherwise you fall flat. And everybody, you're doing improv looks at you going. Well, it's your turn. [00:10:10] Danielle: You've tapped in. Now you've gotta say something. How are you gonna move the story forward? [00:10:14] Exactly. I feel most alive when I'm engaged in moments like that. And I, it's, I'm not a, a adrenaline junkie, but I would say that's my high, it's the, rush of connecting with somebody like that. So you were running a very successful business. This bomb has dropped. [00:10:32] You can barely remember what you were told and what your life is likely going to be. Assuming everything goes well, what is going to happen when you wake up off your op? And how long was your operation? [00:10:46] John: 15 hours. [00:10:48] Danielle: And the surgery was a success. They were able to remove the golf ice tumor. [00:10:52] Yeah. So they removed the fall sized tumor. [00:10:54] John: I didn't have time to think, you know, I got one of my guys who worked for me told him that he was gonna be running the company for a month or two. He agreed. [00:11:05] Mm-hmm. [00:11:05] John: Had to shovel up some more money to get him to do it, but, you know, it is what it is. You do what you have to do. [00:11:11] Yeah. And then,, I just tried to think positively, hope for the best. Plan for the worst. You know, I had someone gonna stay with me the first week, make food because I just wanted to recover and I didn't know what it was gonna be like. [00:11:27] Danielle: Yeah. You're like, I just need a week to recover, and then I'm just gonna hop back into life, hopefully. [00:11:31] John: Rolling the gurney into the surgical, prep area. [00:11:35] The nurse saying, Hey John, you know, we know we have to shape after your head. You want me to do it now or after you're under. [00:11:42] Danielle: So you didn't even know that they were gonna shave your head. Well, I didn't think about it. [00:11:48] John: I mean, if I had thought about it, I got a shaved part of my head. [00:11:51] Danielle: Right. [00:11:52] John: I said to her, please. [00:11:56] Danielle: Yeah. [00:11:58] John: And so, they roll me into the operating room. You got these really bright lights, , blinding you, and you're laying there and they're like, okay, you're gonna count back toward five. [00:12:09] The next thing I know, I hear faint voices and it was like I was 30 meters deep in a pool. Struggling to get to the surface. And I remember this like it was yesterday, literally trying to swim to the service to regain consciousness. [00:12:26] And finally when I got enough, I realized that my dad was sitting on the edge of my bed holding my hand, [00:12:34] and [00:12:34] John: he was smiling at me, but I didn't see my mom. [00:12:40] So I asked my dad for my glasses and he handed me the glasses. And I remember trying to put the, and then I realized my head's bandage. [00:12:48] Danielle: Oh, right. [00:12:50] John: So I had to figure out how to get the glasses in Cockeye to get 'em on my face, right? [00:12:55] And the look on her face was one of horror. What did these butchers do to my son's face? And at that point, I didn't know my face was paralyzed. Because I have full feeling, I just can't move it. [00:13:10] Danielle: So you currently, you still have full feeling in your face. You just lost mobility, [00:13:14] John: so I didn't really understand what that look was. [00:13:18] Danielle: Right. How could you? [00:13:19] John: And then my mom handed me her compact makeup. [00:13:22] And I opened it up and I'm like, holy crap. And then, I'm still getting [00:13:30] accustomed to, the one thing I noticed is leading into surgery, I was constantly dizzy and that dizziness was gone. [00:13:38] Danielle: Wow. [00:13:39] John: And that was like, oh my God, what a relief. [00:13:42] Mm-hmm. [00:13:43] John: So the doctor finally made his way in and I was like, so when's my face gonna move? And he said, John, we were, successful. [00:13:50] The tumors removed. Right when we were close the incision, your face stopped moving. But we think it's just to do the swelling, and once the swelling goes down, your face should start moving again. So I'm like, okay. I can handle that. That's a, it's not a permanent thing. I can deal with it. [00:14:05] So I'm in the hospital a week and, they're like, when you can do three laps around the hospital floor, without a walker, we'll send you home. [00:14:16] So that became my goal. I remember getting outta bed and then they said, no, no, no. Wait for the, I said, no. The doctor said that I need to rock three laps around. [00:14:26] I want to get the hell out of here [00:14:28] Five days I got home. My dad drove me home and I sat on my couch and now I'm like, okay, I can start healing and check email here and there. And I was taking lots of naps. And then I coughed and I touched the back of my neck and it was wet. [00:14:45] Mm. [00:14:47] John: Oh, it was a spinal fluid leak on the base of the incision. [00:14:51] Whew. [00:14:53] John: So immediately I called the doctor's office and the said, oh, get your ass back here. And I went back to the hospital three times with them to redo the bandaging to try to prevent the leak. [00:15:05] Danielle: Wait, you call the hospital. Hey, their spinal fluid leaking out of my surgical incision. And they're like, yeah, you should get in a car and drive yourself to the hospital. [00:15:16] John: They didn't say how I should get to the hospital. [00:15:19] Danielle: Okay. Fair, fair. But that, [00:15:22] okay. Wow. ' [00:15:24] John: cause that's not good. [00:15:25] And there was potential for getting, spinal meningitis in that. From what I understand is one of the most extreme pains out there. [00:15:35] Okay. [00:15:35] John: I went back and forth three different times over that week. [00:15:39] They tried to, it was just as right behind my ear, right at the base of the incision. So, there was no way that they were going to be able to, put a pressure manage to keep that and so it could start healing. [00:15:51] Danielle: Mm-hmm. [00:15:52] John: So they finally said, all right, tomorrow you're gonna come in and we're gonna, redo the incision and pull more belly fat outta your belly to fill the hole. [00:16:01] And Yeah. This time they used staples, man, thick Frankenstein. [00:16:07] All the way up. [00:16:08] But then I'm like, I was only in the hospital for a day. And then, and I'm like, okay, I can relax. I remember getting up and brushing my teeth, you know, and I'm looking at the mirror and God, , I don't recognize that guy. [00:16:24] Yeah. And I got rid of all the mirrors in my house. [00:16:30] I didn't want a constant reminder. [00:16:33] My face was screwed up. [00:16:34] Danielle: I, there's so much specificity to what is uniquely your story. [00:16:46] Mm-hmm. [00:16:47] Danielle: But what I have found is when people. Are able to share elements of their experience. It's when you go into the specificity of what you experienced. I can see myself in so many elements of your story in my own, like when we get in deeper, it becomes somehow more accessible and universal. [00:17:16] And in that way, you're not alone, even though it happened to you and that detail about your removing the mirrors from your home. It, it brings me to something I really wanted to ask you about. You share by saying, and then also , by, actually demonstrating in your TED talk that, once you began the healing process of really addressing your depression after your operation, that, the story, it led you to magic, literally. And I also think in a more magical way, beyond performing an illusion. And I know not to call it a trick, I learned that from arrested development. [00:18:03] But, there's something you said that I wanted to quote that it's amazing how accepting kids are of the truth. You open up your TED talk, which I will link in the show notes so people can see. But that you mentioned that this in a way that your permission and your humor and your honesty, it created levity and lightness. [00:18:27] For something that would be considered maybe so precious and heavy. And what I wanna speak to, and open up a question if that's okay, is, I'm curious what your relationship with the truth is because I think humor in its highest expression is allowing us to laugh at something that we see the truth in. [00:18:49] And yet it's this razor's edge between laughing at someone or laughing at something versus inviting us to laugh at the, the human experience that we maybe don't know how to name or express in another way. But I wanna know personally for you, what your relationship is with the truth and the value of embracing it. [00:19:13] And then in your line of work as a coach, where do you see people struggle with it? [00:19:19] John: Truth is an illusion. [00:19:21] Danielle: Ooh, tell me more. That just, that was a zingy response that you popped right out. Please tell me more. [00:19:28] John: Yeah. Truth. Everybody has their own truth. [00:19:31] Danielle: Oh, well there you go. [00:19:32] John: Their own perspective, [00:19:34] Danielle: uhhuh, [00:19:35] John: And the truth is formed out of your limiting beliefs. [00:19:41] Danielle: So the truth is formed out of your limited beliefs, [00:19:44] John: your limiting beliefs. [00:19:45] Danielle: Limiting beliefs. Okay. [00:19:47] John: Yeah. [00:19:48] I just wanted to take a slight step back. [00:19:50] Danielle: Mm-hmm. [00:19:51] John: I told you this was gonna be the Reader's Digest version. [00:19:54] Danielle: Yes. [00:19:54] John: But it took me 12 years [00:19:57] To come out of that hiding. Wow. 12 years. [00:20:02] Danielle: How old were you when you had your operation? [00:20:05] John: 33. [00:20:06] Danielle: 33. Okay. [00:20:08] John: And fortunately for me, I could work from home. But I miss so many celebrations with friends and family. 'cause I just didn't want to have to explain it. I didn't want to have to deal with the looks, , and I tell this story on my TED Talk and in my book. You know, at a restaurant I wanted to get a burger at Tony Aroma's. And I'm sitting there by myself and in a booth, and there's a booth right in front of me and there's a family with a kid, two parents and a kid. And the kid's squirming and gets up and turns around and is now on his knees on the bench and looking at me. [00:20:44] And he gets up and he comes over and he says, Mr, what's wrong with your face? And in that moment, I didn't want to have a five or 6-year-old come over and Right. And I'm like, okay, I had the strength to come out and go to a restaurant. I have to deal with this. So I started talking to this little boy [00:21:06] Danielle: Mm. [00:21:07] John: And saying, I had a medical procedure that caused me not to with my face before I could continue his mom grabbing him [00:21:16] mm-hmm. [00:21:17] John: The arm and drug him back and said, don't bother him. The nice man, he has enough troubles already. And I couldn't leave it there. [00:21:25] Mm-hmm. [00:21:27] John: So I had to go to the little boy and I knelt down and I got eye level and I said, I love my new face because it's different. [00:21:34] It's different just like yours. And I remember it like it was yesterday, he took his fingers and he tried to distort his face to be crooked like mine. And he turned to his mom and said, look, mom, I could do that too. And then he went back to eating his meal. His question was answered. [00:21:56] He had no judgment. And his parents were like, holy crap, did we just learn a lesson? How to raise our child? [00:22:03] They whispered, thank you on their way out. [00:22:07] Danielle: But there is something I, there, there's something to that woman's response to you that really resonated with me. [00:22:14] And it also, highlights the point you made so well about the, essentially the truth being relative. Because she projected onto you what her perception of your life was. Don't bother the nice man one, she didn't know you were nice, though. You are. But she didn't know that. Right. And she also didn't know what your troubles were or weren't, and she assumed that. [00:22:39] John: But I always wonder what her motives were. [00:22:41] Danielle: Right. [00:22:42] John: was it to make me comfortable or was it to make her and her son comfortable [00:22:48] Danielle: it for her? I think so. [00:22:50] John: And that's how I took it. [00:22:51] Danielle: I remember. So I have two children and I was pregnant once before and lost that pregnancy. [00:22:57] 12 weeks in. And I haven't thought about this in a very long time, but I remember going into, a annual doctor's appointment and she saw on the chart that I was listed as pregnant and clearly now was not. And it was in her own discomfort of not, she was asking me about the baby thinking, 'cause she was not my ob, GYN it was a different type of doctor. [00:23:20] And, she caught. Oh, and then I had sort of explained to her what that meant, and then she said, well, I'm sure, you blame yourself and I want you to know it's not your fault. Like she took her discomfort and tried to turn it into, she positioned herself above as someone who knew what he was experiencing and wanted to offer me this sympathy that was, one, she was wrong. [00:23:45] I totally misplaced. Yeah. I didn't blame myself. And it, that, that moment was such an extension of her own inability to hold the moment and the discomfort of the moment, and, tried to offer it up as a gift for me, which that's, yeah. [00:24:03] John: It's your perception of how you deal with that. [00:24:06] Danielle: Mm-hmm. [00:24:07] John: Losing a child can be. Empowering because you know that you can try again and get a child that is not gonna have any kind of defects and is gonna have a good life. And you know whether or not you believe in God or not. [00:24:24] Danielle: Yeah. [00:24:25] John: Things happen for a reason and we don't always understand the reason for them. [00:24:30] Danielle: I don't know if it, what the reason was, but I can say a gift from that was that somebody who lived with a very active monkey mind and a lot of head trash and some anxiety in the experience of the early grief, not for very long, but there was a moment in time where my mind was quiet, not numb, but quiet. [00:24:55] And it helped me realize, oh, there's the observer within me. Then there are the different conversations that are happening in my head that aren't me, which are maybe the perceptions that I call truth sometimes I wanna bring that same question of truth, which you had an answer I was not expecting, which I love when I never see it coming, so thank you. [00:25:18] Where do you see your clients? Because you're a coach, right? You are taking your healing and offering it as medicine to people that are trying to make a connection in their own life. So where do you see people that you work with? Struggle with the truth? [00:25:36] John: Everybody's hiding from someone something in their life. [00:25:40] They have buried something so deep and it keeps them from moving forward in their lives. 'cause it erodes their self-confidence. [00:25:50] That's what I learned through my love for performing magic. [00:25:58] Going to the magic castle, sitting at a table with a paralyzed face. [00:26:03] Yeah. I'm this overweight guy with balding, balding with a paralyzed face. And I could sit at a table and have people come to me. I tell this story sometimes, that the Magic Castle is a place where you have to get dressed up to the nines, you know? And women love to get dressed up [00:26:22] Danielle: That's true. [00:26:23] John: They're wearing their best outfits, right? And all of a sudden I'd have five or six women sitting at the table, and their reactions are very guarded. [00:26:34] Hmm. [00:26:36] John: You know, they're sitting there with their legs and arms crossed. [00:26:39] Hmm [00:26:40] John: they're leaning back. They have a smile that's just more of a grin. [00:26:45] Mm-hmm. ' [00:26:47] John: cause I don't know what I'm about. Sure. They don't know if I'm gonna be inappropriate, if I'm gonna come onto them, if I'm what it is. So they have no expectations other than they're gonna see some magic. [00:26:58] Mm-hmm. [00:26:59] John: So I start my act saying, hi guys. My name is John and I'm doing magic all my life. [00:27:05] But in 2 0 2 I had a brain tumor. And when they cut over my head, they traumatized medication, nerve offense, a paralyzed face. But something happened to me on that talk table that day, Danielle. [00:27:16] Mm-hmm. [00:27:17] John: I'm not sure what it was because I was unconscious. All I know is I recovered. I realized I had acquired some new skills and I pause. [00:27:29] Yeah. And I wait for everybody to get on the edge of their seat. Like, what happened, John, what? Skills. Skills I could acquire. I'm having brain surgery. [00:27:40] Mm-hmm. I [00:27:41] John: looked to my right and I looked to my left like it's the biggest secret. [00:27:45] Lean in and I whisper in a loud voice as I am able to visualize people's thoughts. And then I do some mental magic mentalism. Love it. And what I just did was I turned my biggest challenge into a superpower. [00:28:07] Danielle: Yes, you did. And I wanna pause you because when you said that in your talk, have, have you read Elizabeth Gilbert's book, big Magic? [00:28:15] Yes. [00:28:15] Danielle: When she talks about trickster energy, I was like, John Kippen is a freaking trickster. [00:28:22] That is trickster energy that you can shift. Before someone's very eyes. It's like you are performing magic and you are performing magic. You shifted before them and you invited them, your audience to see beyond their own limiting beliefs, their own projected truth. [00:28:47] John: They were distracted. They wanted to know why it was paralyzed, but they couldn't ask, did he have a stroke? Did he have be palsy? What was the reason? So I found them being distracted when I was performing. So I got that outta way in the first two minutes. [00:29:00] Mm-hmm. [00:29:01] John: I explained why my face is paralyzed. [00:29:03] And now I treat it as the experience is now I'm able to do superhuman things. [00:29:10] And now they're like, okay, cool. So as I perform [00:29:16] I focus on the spectator. Magic happens in your mind as a spectator. [00:29:22] Danielle: Oh, I love that magic happens in your mind [00:29:26] ​ [00:29:31] If you've ever wanted to start a journaling practice but didn't know where to start, or if you've been journaling off and on your whole life, but you're like, I wanna take this work deeper, I've got you covered. I've written a journal called Treasured, a Journal for unearthing you. It's broken down into seven key areas of your life, filled with stories, sentence stems, prompts, questions, and exercises. [00:29:51] All rooted in the work that I do with actual clients in my therapy sessions. I have given these examples to clients in sessions as homework, and they come back with insights that allow us to do such incredible work. This is something you can do in the privacy of your own home, whether you're in therapy or not. [00:30:10] It has context, it has guides. And hopefully some safety bumpers to help digging a little deeper feel possible, accessible and safe. You don't have to do this alone. And there's also a guided treasured meditation series that accompanies each section in the journal to help ease you into the processing state. [00:30:29] So my hope is to help guide you into feeling more secure with the most important relationship in your life, the one between you and you. Hop on over to the show notes and grab your copy today. And now back to the episode.​ [00:30:44] John: Magic is what you see in your mind or someone else sees in their mind. [00:30:49] Magic is that thing that immediately makes you present. [00:30:56] Danielle: Yeah. [00:30:57] John: And your, all of your sensors are now in a heightened state , whether it's a sunset or a beautiful beach or a beautiful woman or a magic trick or whatever it is, there's that sense of awe and wonder. [00:31:15] So as I would start to take each spectator, I would learn their names. [00:31:19] And I would use their names throughout the show. [00:31:22] Danielle: People love that. [00:31:23] John: People, I ask them, the one word in everybody's language that they love to hear the most is their own name . and so I use that as a way of engaging the audience. [00:31:33] They start leaning in and now they've got real smiles on their face [00:31:37] and I can literally see this wall that women in today's society are forced to put up as a self-protection mechanism. [00:31:45] Yeah. [00:31:46] John: I see this wall start to grow as they start to identify with me and they're like, I'm okay being myself. [00:31:54] And then the end of this [00:31:56] they're asking permission to hug me. [00:31:58] And , having a creative mind, I wanted to understand. What that is. What that, what was going on. [00:32:06] Danielle: You also, not only through performing magic, inviting the curiosity you could see in other people's faces into your opening act essentially, or your sleight of hand. [00:32:17] I'm gonna show you this over here so that you can not see what's coming here. Vulnerability in its purest form is magic because it's the one thing sharing the story you feel like you couldn't share. Letting somebody see the one part of you that you would never let anybody see 'cause you were so utterly convinced you would be outed or you would be cast out by exposing that vulnerability is the birthplace of true connection. [00:32:47] Yeah. Which is the ultimate magic trick. It's, it's like what they say in nightmares, if you stop and face the thing that's chasing you, it, it can't chase you anymore in the dream. And so you spent a decade, did I remember that correctly, you wanted to be a main stage performer at the Magic Castle? [00:33:06] It took you about 10 years and you did it. [00:33:08] John: I did. [00:33:09] Yeah. [00:33:09] Danielle: 10 years. [00:33:11] John: Yeah. [00:33:12] Danielle: 10 years. [00:33:13] John: It was my creative coping mechanism. I had hit rock bottom, was I suicidal? No, not really. But I was unhappy. [00:33:25] Danielle: Yeah. [00:33:26] John: I was, my girlfriend left me, and, fortunately I had a job that I could focus on. But I needed something more. And through sharing something so personal and tying magic into it and making it a positive instead of a negative [00:33:45] people are attracted to it. [00:33:49] Danielle: Yeah. Well, because you're holding fire in your hand. Yeah. You're not just saying it's possible, but you're living. You're turning it into a performance, which I think for an artist is one of the most selfless, beautiful acts. [00:34:11] John: It's what separates great artists from mediocre artists. What is he giving me to care about? [00:34:18] Danielle: I never thought about that with magic. What are they giving me to care about? [00:34:22] John: Yeah. What do I want them to think when they leave the theater? [00:34:27] Ability to put your own life in perspective. If John can, so can I. [00:34:33] That's my true message. [00:34:36] Any different is your superpower. [00:34:38] Now, my facial paralysis does not have to define me if I don't let it. [00:34:44] You know, Danielle I live my life that it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. [00:34:51] And that's bit me in the butt numerous times. [00:34:54] Danielle: I can also say the opposite, can bite you in the butt. I think I waited probably too long, many times for permission that wasn't really coming because no one can ultimately grant it. Right? Like, if there's a path you wanna carve, like the job that you built, all of the different things that you've done, there's no resume posted on LinkedIn. [00:35:15] No one's hot. Like that's an empowerment coach slash magician slash keynote speaker, slash documentarian like that. You have to get curious and still, and listen to that little voice inside and follow that curiosity to a path that may not make sense for anyone for a really long time. And I didn't do that. [00:35:40] And that can bite you in the butt too. 'cause regret's hard to hold. [00:35:42] John: Alex SBE came out on national television [00:35:45] to his fans, to the world and said, I'm scared. I am fighting the battle of my life and I'm gonna ask for everyone's good thoughts and prayers . of what I'm going through. I reached out to Nikki Trebek, Alex's daughter and I said, Nikki, I need to perform for your dad . we're having a 75th birthday party and we don't have any entertainment. [00:36:13] So if you wanna be the entertainment, and I was like. Damn. Yes. [00:36:18] Danielle: Well, yeah. I will go to his house and perform magic for him. a [00:36:22] John: restaurant, but [00:36:23] Danielle: Oh, a restaurant. Okay. [00:36:23] John: Wrote a unique magic show [00:36:25] With Jeopardy themes and the whole nine yards and he was actually at the table as one of my assistants. [00:36:33] Oh. Along with his daughter. so he was this, he needed to understand how things worked. [00:36:39] Was a genius. And so he was constantly looking at me like, wait a minute. That's not possible. Just embrace it, Alex. You're not gonna figure it out. Just enjoy it. [00:36:52] Danielle: That's awesome. [00:36:54] John: And there's, on my website, john kipp.com. There are some magic videos and there are two videos of me performing for Alex , sat with him, and I said, Alex, I need to share something with you that, when you came out so publicly about your diagnosis [00:37:10] I asked for everybody's support and love and prayers that resonated with me. I am here to give to you. You've been a part of my life and the lives of millions of people. [00:37:27] And your life's work is meaningful. [00:37:30] I just wanted to tell you that, 'cause I had a feeling that no one ever takes the time to say thank you for your life's work. [00:37:37] And he immediately started welling up. [00:37:39] Danielle: Well, anybody who makes something look easy that we do take for granted. [00:37:45] And I think that, like I appreciate so much in the telling of your story, you share not just the struggles, but the time you had a vision of yourself. On the main stage performing at the Magic Castle, like the most elusive place where magic is. And you didn't just wanna get in, you didn't just wanna get an audition, you didn't wanna just like get to per perform an illusion, like main stage. [00:38:23] You didn't just have a goal. You had the goal and you did it, but you also say that it took you 10 years. And there's usually themes that run with anxiety, about not enoughness and the crunchiness of time. There's never enough time. I'm not enough and there's not enough time. And not being worthy. [00:38:42] Yes, yes, yes. One of my main motivations when I started this podcast originally several years ago, was I was. Starting to increasingly feel, trapped in this sort of, world of before and after story. And it was no longer feeling inspirational. It was just another measuring stick for how not enough. [00:39:03] Yeah. 'Cause it, it's great to see where somebody was and where they are, but when I'm knee deep in my own struggle when I'm the caterpillar goo and the chrysalis, and I'm not the shiny butterfly, but I'm also not the caterpillar anymore. What do I do when my life is literally a shitty pile of goo this is something that most clients don't come right out and ask me like in sessions one, two, and three. But it inevitably comes well, I've been doing this for, so many months. How much longer is it gonna take? How long is it gonna take? And I just always, I appreciate when people can acknowledge. [00:39:41] The time and consistency that goes into healing [00:39:47] John: joy is in the journey. [00:39:48] Danielle: Mm. [00:39:49] John: Not in the destination. [00:39:51] And that's the thing I really focus with my clients. [00:39:55] I have clients come to me because they're holding themselves back in their life. [00:39:59] And it's my job to get that out of them by asking open-ended questions, by building a rapport, I can trust this guy. [00:40:08] Danielle: Yeah. Would you say that's your superpower as a coach? [00:40:11] John: Through my journey of reverse engineering who I am and who I wanted to become. Coming out the other side immediately understood that it's not about me. [00:40:24] Danielle: Yes. It's only true every single time. [00:40:27] John: The joy comes from helping others get that realization, [00:40:32] That they understand they are truly powerful and have a chance to shape their destiny. [00:40:40] That's why I talk about limiting beliefs. [00:40:43] And we grow up with our parents or whoever raised us, those are our belief systems. [00:40:49] And so that's what forms who you are. You stop dreaming. [00:40:54] That's what midlife crisis is all about. [00:40:58] Danielle: Yeah. [00:40:59] John: We got educated, we got a job, we built a career. We have a family. [00:41:06] Danielle: It's, I think the version of that I hear in my sessions is essentially I did everything right. Shouldn't I be feeling better than I am? Yeah. Like, I followed all the rules. I'm winning. Why does it not feel like I'm winning? Yeah. And finding our way back to that. [00:41:29] The unlearning and the unraveling. That is a, it's a process. [00:41:34] John: I'll talk to a friend. How you doing? And so many people respond automatically living the dream. But is it your dream? You're living? [00:41:46] Whose dream are you living? Because you're wasting your life by living someone else's dream. And that's why you get to that point in life where it's not enough. [00:41:58] Cause it's not your dream. You just finished the last 30 years building. [00:42:03] Danielle: Yeah. And the joy really is in the process and there's no way to enjoy the process of fulfilling the wishes of somebody else because you, what you're constantly chasing is when I get there, then the relief will come and then you're there and you're like, well, where's my pot of gold? [00:42:22] John: Yeah. I had, I spent 20 years learning how not to hide my face. [00:42:28] And what happened in March in 2020? The pandemic hit [00:42:33] now covering your face with a mask, became not only politically correct. [00:42:41] But government mandated and I'm like sitting there thinking to myself, what do I do? So I found a company who prints things on masks and I sent them a picture of my face and a picture of the lower part of my job. [00:43:01] Danielle: Trickster energy, John Kippen trickster. That's the new hyphen to your list of all of your accomplishments. [00:43:08] John: I would walk around and strangers would look at it and not understand. [00:43:12] Danielle: Right, right. But people who knew me [00:43:15] John: would do a double take. [00:43:17] Danielle: I will not hide. [00:43:19] John: Refuses to hide. [00:43:20] Even through a global pandemic. [00:43:23] Yeah. [00:43:23] John: I'm gonna live my life [00:43:25] Danielle: mm-hmm. On [00:43:26] John: my own terms. [00:43:28] Danielle: Yeah. I work too hard, too long to get free and I will not hide for you. Wow. Wow. And [00:43:37] John: when I share that story, people like, wow, John's done some soul searching. [00:43:44] Danielle: Which is why your clients come to you. [00:43:46] John: Yeah. [00:43:46] Danielle: Yeah. I unfortunately have come across many. People in the helping profession that haven't started with their first client, which is themselves. I put myself in that camp. I've talked about it on the podcast before, but I didn't start seeing a therapist until I became one, which is probably not the right order, but I didn't realize until I was sitting there trying to help people. [00:44:09] And then my own stuff was getting activated in the session. It's called Counter Transference. And, yeah, I was like, oh shit, I gotta look at the mirror. I gotta do a little more digging. But I think a, what leads a lot of people into helping professions is its desire to heal. And it sounds like in your case you did the herculean task of lifting your own self up before you said, now what can I offer you? [00:44:39] I wanna ask, just a purely curious, selfish question before we get to the very end I wanna ask. In your book playing the Hand you're Dealt how did you connect with Jamie Lee Curtis? The same way you did Alex Trebek? Did you just find someone and you DMed them and [00:44:55] John: you're like, her assistant worked for a production company [00:45:00] in a previous job. [00:45:02] Danielle: Gotcha. [00:45:02] John: That I knew. [00:45:03] When Jamie was like, I need it. So help with my computer. Her assistant said, I've got the guy for you. And I remember being at Jamie's house. [00:45:15] She knew me before my facial surgery, and after. [00:45:18] Danielle: So you have a history then? [00:45:19] John: Oh yeah. We met in 2000. [00:45:21] Danielle: Oh, okay. [00:45:22] John: So she saw me before. [00:45:24] She saw the struggle. Sure, she has two. Great kids. [00:45:29] And she adopted me as her third child. Wow. She saw the ability to help me. And so I had a filmmaker friend of mine reach out and said, John, I'd love your story. [00:45:45] I want to film a documentary on you. And I'm like, cool. So I realized I'm paying for the damn documentary. [00:45:51] Danielle: Oh. So I wanna offer you this gift, and by the way, here's the bill. [00:45:55] John: Yes, exactly. But at that point, I'm all in and I'm like, what do I have to lose? I'm a risk taker. I can afford it. [00:46:01] I've got money in the bank. [00:46:03] Let's make sure we stay on budget or close to budget, so there I am working on Jamie's computer and I'm staring at the screen and I'm summoning the courage. Ask Jamie. So I'm telling her the story. My friend Ryan's gonna direct this documentary about my life and my journey, and then I pause and I'm just staring at the screen. [00:46:23] I feel these eyes burning into the side of my head. [00:46:26] Mm-hmm. [00:46:28] John: And Jamie says, and [00:46:32] Danielle: I love that she didn't do it for you, but she made you do it. [00:46:36] John: And then at that point, I realized what the question was. I said, Jamie, will you be in my documentary? [00:46:44] And she goes, fuck yes, I will. [00:46:48] Danielle: Yeah. [00:46:49] John: She gets it. [00:46:50] Yeah. [00:46:51] John: Going through her sobriety, she wears her sobriety on her. Shoulder as a badge of honor. [00:47:00] And that is her message. [00:47:02] Yeah. [00:47:03] John: If she can get people to stop drinking by showing up for people. That's her ultimate goal in life. And so, she saw in me what I didn't see, [00:47:18] Danielle: and you asked the question. I think it's a lesson that I feel like I'm eternally playing a game of peekaboo with where I forget, and then I remember and then I forget and then I remember. But like the opportunities that you're asking for, you have to ask. [00:47:39] Yes. You have to say the thing. Right. Which is so brave and so vulnerable. But then the magic is sometimes when you ask, someone will say Yes. Now, in your case, she was essentially lovingly poking you until you, [00:47:55] John: asked. There was a point where I was debating plastic surgery. [00:48:00] Did I want to try to fix my face? Because at the end of the day, I wanted symmetry at rest. I wanted to be able to get rid of the droopiness and just, have a symmetrical base. That's all I really wanted. Sure. And because I would say, I hit my smile. And I've had friends come up and say, John, your first smile, we love your smile. [00:48:23] But I didn't love my smile. And until I, not up here, not in my head, but in my heart, accepted my smile. I couldn't move forward. I couldn't heal. And once I accepted my new smile, I found joy. I found that I could love myself. [00:48:46] And what's funny is when you get to that point, [00:48:49] yeah. [00:48:50] John: You overcome whatever that thing is that's holding you back. [00:48:53] Yeah. [00:48:54] John: And you want to share it with every person you come in contact with. [00:49:00] Danielle: Yeah. You are the love you're seeking. [00:49:02] John: Yes. Yes. And you are your acceptance. [00:49:05] Danielle: It reminds me of, something. He said in an interview, in, A New Earth, but author Eckert Tolle said that right before his essential death of the, he called it the death of his ego, but we could call it enlightenment or rebirth. [00:49:19] But he remembers the last thing he said before he went to sleep was, I can't live with myself anymore. And it wasn't about in the interpretation , of , taking one's own life . but what he realized is that he couldn't live with the self that was hating him. He couldn't live with that self. [00:49:40] And that self never woke up. But he did. [00:49:45] John: Through my journey [00:49:46] Of coming to accept myself for who I am. I immediately see others. [00:49:53] Yeah. [00:49:53] John: How they're hiding. [00:49:54] Before they recognize it. And so my coaching is all about not saying, this is why you're hiding. [00:50:03] That's what's holding you back. [00:50:06] Danielle: What you said about once you, you see somebody's wall so clearly because you understand your own so well. My less eloquent way of saying that to clients, it's once you smell bullshit, you can't unm it. It's the scent in the air and you're like, huh, what am I smelling? [00:50:23] Oh, it's bullshit. Well, John, I would love to know your, don't cut your own bang moment. [00:50:30] John: I'm backstage. There are a thousand people in the audience and I had theatrical training I had a talk memorized. It had to be 12 minutes long. [00:50:39] I'm doing a magic trick with other people that are coming up stage. I needed to control that. I got there early the morning of the TED Talk and helped the guys focus the lights so that it looked better. I'm all in. I want to shine in this TED Talk. , I remember I'm going up on stage and I'm saying, to the cherry picker operator, can I give you a hand? Because I have lighting experience. And I expected the presenter come and say, no, John, you're the actor. Go in your, the green room and there's some donuts and coffee , and we'll call you already, but you didn't. She knew that I was there to make the entire event better. And she let me do it, [00:51:18] That's awesome. [00:51:19] John: This is my first real speech. Okay, in front of a thousand people. And I knew that I had a limited time to get the audience on my side. [00:51:30] Get the audience engaged. How was I gonna be able to break their, going through their phone, talking to a neighbor, drinking, eating, snacking in a full day of speech? [00:51:41] Yeah. [00:51:43] John: So I said, I wanna go first. And everybody has said, great, but we don't, you can go first. And right before the mc went on stage to introduce me. I did a magic trick war. I turned Monopoly money into real money and then back again. [00:52:00] So as a magician, everything was possible. I turned monopoly into real money, but then I realized that's actually called counterfeiting he stays out for like seven seconds. I did that to the mc and now he just saw a miracle happen. [00:52:16] So he turns around and walks on stage beaming, and he told that story to the audience and said, Hey guys, your next speaker just did a miracle. He turned monopoly money into real money in front of my eyes. Pay attention to this cat. [00:52:37] Yeah. [00:52:38] John: So I walked on that stage. I had the love of everybody in the audience that everybody wanted to see what I was gonna do. [00:52:46] Everybody wanted to hear what I was gonna say, so I didn't have to warm up the audience. I got the mc to do it for me. Genius. And I do that every time I speak because it works but anyway, three quarters of the speech, I'm standing on my red circle and I'm delivering my talk. [00:53:08] And the front lights go out. [00:53:10] Danielle: Wait, you were three fours of the way done when they went out. [00:53:13] John: I'm standing in shadows. And my first reaction was, whoa. That Whoa. Got the lighting guy to realize, holy shit, I hit the wrong button, and he brought the lights slowly back up. [00:53:27] As the lights went back up, I went magic [00:53:32] and so I got an amazing laugh from the audience. [00:53:36] Because I cut the tension, I was doing improv. [00:53:38] I remember walking off stage and the producer of the event said, John, don't worry about, we'll edit that part out. And I said, don't you dare. That was my finest moment. Don't you dare edit that out. [00:53:54] I want that in the video. [00:53:57] She just smiled as I went back to the dressing room and sat down and then the adrenaline was like, whew. Walking out into the audience after the event and having strangers just come up to me and wanna hug me and say, holy cow, I resonate with your message. [00:54:18] And my message on the TED Talk was, treat people are different with respect to compassion. [00:54:23] That's what TED talks are all about. You want one key message and that was my message. [00:54:27] You never know, you might be in their shoes in an instant. [00:54:34] Danielle: I wanna add to that, another way to speak to the value of doing some self investigation, whether that's through journaling, through therapy, or seeking out a coach from someone like yourself is, because that expression of, treat other people the way you would wanna be treated. [00:54:53] What I know is that we don't treat ourselves all that well. A lot of us, many of us don't treat ourselves well, which is why accessing the compassion. Of treating others kindly is sometimes harder for us to find, jumping to criticism or judgment, because there's something we are rejecting in us. [00:55:13] So I think a way to do the thing you're saying , that beautiful treat others with kindness and compassion. The best way to do that is to look within. And I invite anybody listening to go to the show notes, visit John's website, seek out a coaching call, grab a copy of his book. There are resources that can help you be kinder to yourself, to lowering the walls, to lifting the veil, to seeing yourself in a new way, to performing the ultimate illusion, which is [00:55:52] to love yourself more fully exactly as you are so that we can be kinder to each other. 'cause we need that, we need a lot more kindness. [00:56:00] Thank you, John. Do we have the information we need for our listeners to get the special code? [00:56:06] John: John kipping.com. [00:56:08] Slash free gift. [00:56:11] Danielle: Ooh, you heard it here. John kipping.com/free gift. And this is only the gift for those of you who have listened this far. [00:56:20] So if you listen to the beginning and you just try to skip to the show notes, sorry. You ain't getting a gift. Thank you, John. [00:56:28] Thank you so much for joining me on this incredible episode of Don't Cut Your Own Bangs. I hope that you love listening because I thoroughly enjoyed making it. My favorite episodes are the ones where I get to learn something too. I'm also a listener. And benefiting from the wisdom and insights of all of the experts, creatives, performers, adventurers seekers that I get an opportunity to meet in this podcast format. [00:56:56] Don't forget to check out the show notes and please before you sign off , always remember rate, review, subscribe to the podcast when you interact with the podcast. It just helps send it out like a rocket ship to other people that are looking for the same value that you are. And it also helps create a conversation where I can continue to develop and cultivate something that benefits you more and is more fun for you to listen to. Feedback is great, and also if you just wanna throw a compliment, that's sweet too. But thank you so much for being here. [00:57:26] Your intention, your time mean the absolute world to me, and I hope you continue to have an incredible day. [00:57:32] ​

Plus Kramer shares his favorite celebrity interaction of all time!

Connect with us!What happens when your grief support is met with silence? You've texted. Called. DMed. Offered comfort. And still—nothing. No response. No acknowledgment. Just distance.This is the part of grief support that no one talks about.We don't often discuss what it feels like when you're trying to show up and love someone through loss… and they shut you out. But it happens. And it doesn't mean you did something wrong.Grieving Unapologetically is brought to you by The Heart of Miss Bee, Inc. a 501(c)(3) organization that exists to honor the late Beverly E. Carroll. This episode is brought to you by The Heart of Miss Bee, Inc. which exists to honor the late Beverly E. Carroll.

Featuring:DR. JIM THORPE https://x.com/jathorpmfmKIRSTIN COSGROVE https://x.com/KirstinCosgrovehttps://advancedbiologicalresearchgroup.org/"Is This the Final Warning?"On this urgent episode of American Made, host Ann Vandersteel investigates the CDC's quiet reversal on COVID-19 vaccine guidance for healthy children and pregnant women—just as explosive new data from DMED and VAERS confirm what many feared:⚠️ Massive spikes in adverse events, disability, and sudden death. Now, with self-amplifying RNA (saRNA) vaccines being added to the childhood schedule—biotech that replicates inside the body to amplify spike protein production—the time for polite discussion is over.

Sparky Grumblestone, who is quietly enjoying retirement in the aftermath of Unification, is visited by a figure he could not have expected: Crawford Cyrilish. The master of the Shadow Collective needs his help for a mission of dire importance. Can Sparky put aside old grudges to help a man in need?Beyond Kerkonos is a D&D actual play podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow heroes from across my homebrew world as we explore distant lands beyond the borders of the Kerkonian Republic.

SUMMER TOUR TICKETS -> bit.ly/CITOSUMMER. New piercings for the CITO gang? (00:00-19:49). Justin Bieber's weird post about telling Hailey Bieber she would never be on the cover of Vogue (21:19-36:12). Bill Belichick & Jordon Hudson are reportedly engaged (36:13-42:33). Stassie Baby confirms she got a BBL (43:43-49:12). Harry Styles took a photo of a random couple and then DMed it to them (49:13-52:57). PopCorner voicemails: 'Love Island USA' S7 familiar faces?, What's next for Taylor Swift?, What's the deal with Corey Gamble? + more! (53:47-1:12:19). CITO LINKS > barstool.link/chicks-in-the-office.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/chicks-in-the-office

In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss whether or not employees can be encouraged to be “more strategic”. They explore the definition of being strategic, frequently misunderstood expectations, and the challenges of fostering strategic thinking among team members. Gini shares her personal experiences and frustrations from her early career, emphasizing the importance of proper coaching and mentoring. Chip and Gini conclude that agency owners should define their expectations clearly, consider the individual capabilities of their employees, and re-evaluate their own workload to potentially take on more strategic responsibilities themselves. Key takeaways Chip Griffin: “Anytime you’re providing feedback to an employee, be as specific as possible, both in terms of what your expectations are and what you want them to really work on.” Gini Dietrich: “The only constructive criticism I received on every review was you need to be more strategic. Which is fine, it was true, but nobody told me what that meant.” Chip Griffin: “When I’m coaching people on hiring, my advice is try to find people who are generally good at problem solving, as opposed to someone who has the specific experience that you’re looking for.” Gini Dietrich: “Do you have the room to be strategic? Probably not. Most of us that run agencies don’t. So if you don’t have the time or the space, your team certainly doesn’t.” Related Professional development for agency owners and employees (featuring Mike Rhodes) The role of your team in selling agency services How to get your team the mentorship they need View Transcript The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy. Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich. Chip Griffin: And Gini, I don’t even remember what we’re talking about today, so I remember that, I remember that you were driving the topic though, so, so, so in the 30 seconds since we end Gini Dietrich: Segue, we’re going to talk about whether or not employees can be strategic. Chip Griffin: Ah, there we go. We should also talk about whether hosts can actually pay attention to their own shows. Do I still have any memory left? Apparently not, but we’re just, it just shows how real we are on this podcast because, Gini Dietrich: but also, to be fair, it was like five minutes ago. Then we had another conversation and now, so I’ll give you a little bit of benefit of it out there. Chip Griffin: Well, thank you. I I, I do, I do appreciate that. But you know, we’re just, we’re just showing you how real we are on this show because most hosts would say, you know what, we’re gonna rerecord this open so that we don’t look dumb. No, I am, I am pleased to look dumb. Absolutely. I should not pleased, but I, I don’t care if I look dumb. I mean, it’s, you know, we all are dumb sometimes, and this is one of those times for me, so Gini Dietrich: I cannot wait for the clip from Jen that says, I am pleased to look dumb. That’s gonna be perfect. Chip Griffin: You’re welcome. Thank you. The two of you can really enjoy that and I’m sure we will. I’ll see it show up up in my texts at some point. Gini Dietrich: Yep. And it’ll show up on social media. It’s fine. Sure. Chip Griffin: There you go. Whatever. I’m fine with that. Gini Dietrich: Ah, I’m pleased to look dumb. Chip Griffin: So can employees be strategic? Gini Dietrich: Maybe? Chip Griffin: It depends? Gini Dietrich: Actually, you know, I was thinking about this because, Drew McClellan did a video on it and I watched it and I was like, this is an interesting topic. And I was making the bed the other day and I was thinking about how when I was in my twenties, I used to get really good reviews. And the only negative thing, or the only thing constructive criticism thing on every review was you need to be more strategic. Which is fine. It was true, but nobody told me what that meant. It just, and, and the reason it kept coming up in my reviews is because I was like, okay, I need to be more strategic, but how do I do that? And no one would teach me or walk me through it or, you know, try to help in any sense of the fashion. So. When I think about this, I do think employees can be more strategic. I think it’s up to us as the agency owners to define what that means and how to coach them through that. I do think it’s a skill that needs to be coached and mentored and taught and all of those things. And some people have it and some people don’t. But I do think there, you know, for people like me who are like, okay, I’d love to be more strategic. I don’t wanna have that on my review every quarter. How do I do that? I would’ve loved if somebody had taught me how to do that. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, I, I think you’re, you’re spot on here with the, the, this idea that the definition matters. And, and I, I think oftentimes when I hear an agency owner say, geez, I, I wish I could help my employees be more strategic, to me, they’re really saying one of two things. Which really neither one of which has a whole lot to do with strategy. Yeah. One is, why can’t they just run this account without me? Why do they need so much handholding? Right? Yep. And the second is, why can’t they do more to generate revenue, either organic growth of existing accounts or come up with ideas for new business that we can get. And so to me, what, whenever I hear that that’s, that’s immediate, well, immediately what I think it’s either one of those two things, neither one of which is necessarily tied to strategy in the purest sense. Gini Dietrich: Right, right. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. And usually it, it’s usually why can’t they help come up with really good ideas for organic growth or why can’t they help in new business, like generate help make rain. And it, it typically is not, they’re not strategic. It’s, and, and I think in our industry, especially the communications industry overall, we tend not to be strategic because we’re so tactically focused, just in general as an industry. And so understanding what being strategic really means and understanding what you’re actually asking is, I think, key here. And if it’s really, I want them to help me grow the business, that’s a different conversation. Chip Griffin: Absolutely. And, and you know, a lot of these things are things that you can, you can provide the environment for employees who are already inclined to be strategic, to be more strategic. I think it’s very hard to get someone who is, who is just a pure worker bee tactician to, to, to shift out of that mode. And so you have to understand what you’re working with as a manager. And, and if you’ve got somebody who really, they just, they kind of wanna punch the clock, get things done, they do it well, but they, you know, they, they operate within, you know, clear guardrails. That’s not the kind of person that you’re gonna generally be able to get to suddenly become strategic, that’s right. If you’ve got someone who’s got maybe some good strategic instincts, you can, you can foster that by mentoring, by coaching, but more importantly, by giving them the space to do it. Because I think one of the reasons why a lot of employees who are, are able to be strategic, aren’t is because they’re, they don’t have enough time or space to get it done. And, and if you are overloading your team members with day-to-day stuff, they don’t have the room, whether it’s operationally or business development wise. Yep. To be more strategic. So you’ve got to, to think about are you creating the environment in which they can thrive in that way. Gini Dietrich: It’s so funny you say that because I have a really, really good friend who runs a company, not an agency. They’re probably about, I’d say 18 to $20 million in revenue. They hired a director of marketing three years ago. And he came to me probably late last year and said, Hey, I’m really having trouble with my marketing person and I don’t know why. Could you help me evaluate her? Like it is always kind of a like cautionary thing because you don’t want somebody to come in and be like let’s spend some time together so I can evaluate whether or not you’re doing your job right. So, I carefully walked into it and I spent six months with her, probably once a week, like helping her understand what the goals are and trying to like coach her along and everything. And what it came down to is she’s fantastic if you tell her exactly what to do. She will do it. She will do it on time. She will do a good job. She’ll find the right resources to be able to get it done, but she cannot, she doesn’t have the ability to think beyond that. And so when I went back to him after six months and I said that exact thing, and he was like, well, I need somebody to be strategic. And I was like, okay, then you need to hire somebody above her who will be that person. And he’s like, I need her to be that person. And so he, we go back and forth and back and forth and finally I was like, dude, like, she just doesn’t have the capability. And I think that goes exactly to your point, that some people have it and some people don’t. And it’s okay if they don’t because we need the people to do the work too, right? We need people who wouldn’t ask to do something. They do it, they do it well, they, you know, do it on time and all those things. We need those people. It’s a different skillset than somebody who’s strategic. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And I think anytime we’re thinking about employees and, and how we can, you know, mold them and shape them more to our needs, we need to, to have a reality check. Over, you know, what we’re asking. If it’s that they don’t have a particular skillset, you can generally train a skillset. If it’s something, if it’s more of a, a way of, of thinking, or something like that, those are much harder. And so, absolutely. You know, one of the things that I’ve always said when I’m trying to hire people is, or coaching people on hiring, is try to find people who are generally good at problem solving and things like that, as opposed to someone who has the specific experience that you’re looking for. Because I, I have a very difficult time teaching someone how to be a problem solver. Sort of the mental process you go through to take a challenge and then figure out what to do with it. But if you know, let, let’s take, when I used to hire computer programmers. I didn’t really care whether they knew the specific computer program language that I needed them to use. I cared whether they knew the process because all programming languages are the same, generally speaking as far as how you thinking about how you think about them. It’s just the syntax that is different, right? It’s like if I want, I want someone who’s a good writer. I don’t necessarily need them to writing experience in a particular industry, right? Most of the time, right? Because I can teach them what they need to know for the industry. I can’t teach them in any reasonable way to be a better writer. Gini Dietrich: Right. That’s right. Yeah, that’s absolutely right. And I, I think, you know, so being honest with yourself about what, what you mean when you say I want somebody to be more strategic and what that looks like. Another really good example I have is that I have a, a good friend who runs an agency and last week she DMed me on Slack and was like, Hey, listen, I’m having trouble with a teammate who says that she wants to be involved in business development, but she’s not getting there. And I was like, I was asking her some questions to kind of try to uncover what was going on and what we came to the realization is that her team member was talking about business development in the way that you and I complain about all the time, where we get these emails that are like, if, if you spend 15 minutes with us, we can schedule 550 conversations with you, with prospects. Okay. That’s not business development. But they were using the same verbiage. Yep. Meaning totally different things. And this young woman who’s on her team has that experience of working for a digital firm that their job was to generate leads like that. Right. My friend who runs an agency is looking at it the way we look at it from a business development perspective of we really only need three clients, so we probably have to approach 10. Right prospects. So when it came out of it that, that was the difference in the conversation. She went, ohhh. So it’s, it’s really digging in deep with your team to figure out, maybe you’re using the same language and you’re meaning something different. Or maybe you have expectations and they think they understand what they are, but that it’s, you’re kind of missing the, you’re two ships. Right passing in the night. So it’s really about understanding what it is that you really mean. Do I need them to be strategic? Do I want them to focus on business development? Do I want them to do, be better in in client meetings? What is it that, I mean when I say be more strategic? And then really dig deep with them because you might be saying the things that you are, and they’re misinterpreting it because they’re, the lens that they’re looking at it through is different than yours. Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, and this is, I mean, this is important anytime you’re providing feedback to an employee. You need to be as specific as possible, both in terms of what your expectations are and what you want them to really work on. So if I say to somebody, I want you to be more strategic, or I want you to communicate more effectively, or I want you to pay better attention to detail, what does that mean? Yeah. Be, be specific What? What are the specific things that you think I could or should be doing better or more of, or what have you? And frankly, a lot of the time that’s gonna require you to think about what you actually want from them. That’s right. And what you need from them. But then putting it into words with them, breaks it down into the component parts so that they have something clear that they can work on. They can say, yeah, that’s just not gonna happen. Like, you know, if, if your idea of being strategic is that you’re making cold calls because you really mean business development, they may just say, yeah, that’s just not, that’s not me. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Right. Chip Griffin: But if you, if you start breaking them and, and, and it really does, I mean, I think so much of it is just turning the spotlight on yourself and figuring out what you’re trying to get from them. Because usually when you’re asking for something like that, it means that you’re trying to get something off of your own plate. So what specifically are you trying to get off of your own plate? Because that’s, that’s where you can start to see real progress. It’s where your team doesn’t feel frustrated by these, you know, vague requests that you’re making of them. And it also helps you to figure out is it really realistic? Right? You know, if this is what I’m asking for. Can I really ask them to do that in with their current workload? Do I need to change their workload to get there? Do I need to change their priorities in some fashion so that it gets done first versus other things that I prioritize less? Whatever it may be. You need to be crystal clear about that in your own mind and then convey that to the employee. Gini Dietrich: To this day, I still don’t know what my boss meant when she told me every quarter that I needed to be strategic. ’cause she didn’t, she never outlined that for me. And I asked questions and I tried to get help. I still, to this day, I have no idea what she meant by that. Chip Griffin: Well, I mean, clearly you’re, you’re just not very good at strategy, Gini. I mean, you know. Gini Dietrich: Back then I wasn’t. I am today, but back then I for sure wasn’t, Chip Griffin: I mean, if only you had like a model or a framework that you could use to guide you. Gini Dietrich: Demonstrate. Yeah. Guide, build. Yeah. You know, Chip, I think that we’re gonna start losing listeners because every conversation we have, we give people work to do. We, you actually have to work at this. Chip Griffin: Well, yeah. Yeah. But I mean, this is not the place to come if you don’t want to do work. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. You have to do work. Yeah. There’s all sorts of things you have to do. I’m really sorry. Understand your financials. Chip Griffin: But it’s a pretty, it’s a pretty small and simple list and, and so many of them it is, as I think I said on the last episode or maybe the one before that, a lot of them just come back to a couple of key things, a couple of key tools and processes that sort of, all of these other issues either orbit around or can be solved by. And, so it’s, it’s really not as complicated as it seems. But if you’re, if you are not good at communicating what you need and starting by understanding what you need, you’re never gonna get it, whether it’s strategy or anything else. Gini Dietrich: Right? That’s right. Yeah. It really is about setting expectations, but also understanding that if the words that you’re using don’t mean the same thing to your team, that has to change too. But you, and you have to figure that out. Like it took an outside person for my friend to, to go, wait a second, I, I see what’s happening. And she didn’t see the forest for the trees at all. So sometimes you may have to phone in a friend and be like something’s not right here. Can you help me kind of diagnose what’s going on? I mean, you and I could serve in, in that, that role, but certainly you have friends that are in the industry as well that could serve in that role. Chip Griffin: Yeah, I mean, any, anytime you can get a fresh perspective on things, and you’re able to, you know, to, to take that different look at, at how things are being done. And, and I think bring, particularly bringing in someone from the outside, whether it’s, you know, a friend, a trusted advisor, or an actual consultant, whatever, I, I think those are helpful because a lot of times employees will be more open with those individuals. Yeah. Especially over time. Yeah. And, and will, you know share this is why I’m not able to do this. Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Chip Griffin: Because a lot of times it is that, you know, the resources just aren’t there, particularly time. And you know, I think that, you know, while there are a lot of things that employees can and probably should do to be more efficient with the, their expenditure of time, there is still a finite amount of it. And, and I, Gini Dietrich: unfortunately, yes. Chip Griffin: I very rarely see owners or even middle managers who say, yeah, you know, I, I want my team doing less of these things. It’s always more, and, and the less is usually something silly, like I want them to waste less time. Okay, well what does that even mean? So, you know, if you’re, if you’re only gonna be adding things to someone’s plate and you’re never taking anything away, it becomes really hard to get the results that you’re looking for, whether that’s strategic, tactical, operational, internal, administrative, whatever. Gini Dietrich: I mean, look at your own plate. Do you have the room to be strategic? Do you have the time to do some deep work? Do you have space to be able to think? Probably not. I mean, most of us that run agencies don’t. So if you don’t have the time or the space, they certainly don’t. So you have to kind of figure out how to re-jigger things so that you can get what you need and they can get, get it done for you. Chip Griffin: Yeah, and that’s a great point. I mean, that it, it, it also is a reminder that if what we’re looking for is our employees to be more strategic, is that really the best solution or should we be trying to get them to take something else off of our plate that’s easier for them to accomplish so that we have that time. Good point. And space to be strategic. Yep. Because I, I think we will all probably accept that, that in general, agency owners are likely to be more strategic, no matter how you define it than employees. Certainly we all care a whole lot more about the outcome of those strategies than any employee ever does. Yeah. And so if we can, if we can move less valuable stuff off of our plate and we can fill that strategic role more effectively, that’s often a better solution than trying to force someone who is not inclined to be strategic, isn’t trained to be strategic, doesn’t have the strategic bone in their body, you know, take it on yourself, but just get other stuff off of your plate so you can do that. Absolutely. So with that, we will get this podcast off of your plate so that you can then move on to being strategic, defining your own goals or, you know, doing whatever other assignments we’ve given you. Yep. On, on this and other episodes. So I will not apologize for giving you more homework. I’m sorry. Gini Dietrich: Nor will I, Chip Griffin: I’m, I’m sorry for not being sorry, you know, anyway, but yeah. Alright, on that note, I’m Chip Griffin. Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich Chip Griffin: and it depends.

The Bad Options, out of funds and running out of time, are on one last lead to track down Isobel Belfast - Alcaire's missing sister. Meanwhile, Falrus Aerin, run aground years after his adventures in Kerkonos, receives a mysterious letter in the mail.Kerkonos by Night is a D&D actual play podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow this group of ragtag heroes as they navigate a plot of bloody murder, llost family, and impossible choices.

The consensus at JAMDTNYTC HQ is that this was a terrific Thursday crossword, and a limbering up, as it were, in preparation for the grueling Friday and Saturday crosswords yet to come. We were pleased to see OCCAM make an appearance in the grid, as well as a smattering of frqtly. sn. txt. msg. abbrs., including DMED, OTOH, IRL and IPAS (ok, we're not sure about that last one, but the rest most definitely are frequently seen text message abbreviations).Show note imagery:  ATOMICDOGWe love feedback! Send us a text...Contact Info:We love listener mail! Drop us a line, crosswordpodcast@icloud.com.Also, we're on FaceBook, so feel free to drop by there and strike up a conversation!

Part 1 of a two part VAESEN adventure, DMed by Sean Murray. Join the investigators of the Society as they unravel a truly sticky situation. When a body is discovered on the shores of the inner harbour, covered in a strange ichor, the group must piece together the clues to uncover the identity of this John Doe and the circumstances of his untimely demise. Will they unravel this tangled web of magic and mystery, or will they find themselves caught in a confectious condundrum.

Happy Thursday!!!! You might have seen the lady TikTok who speaks to her baby like an adult (hahaha it's been a fun week)… Harrison (the “man who stole that lady's baby”) and I talk all about talking to your baby vs. baby talking and the reaction from the internet. Then, big life update: we're moving! (MAYBE??!) We get into the renting vs. buying debate, what makes sense for us right now, and what we think our next steps are. ALSO - did you know the average age of a first time homebuyer is 38 years old?? Like.. we're golden. Things we DMed sparks discussion on the California's new child influencer laws and some of our childhood memories on vacation (spoiler alert: pyramids are NOT made out of sand & King Tut was real…). Plus we talk about why the new iPhone update might be ruining our lives. (Apple would summarize the description above as “Talking to babies about King Tut ruining lives” - BUT ACTUALLY like WHAT the heck are these summaries). As always, we LOVE YOU GUYS. Comment and tell me if you guys rent or own (I'm so curious and we literally have no idea what we're gonna do!!!!) Timestamps: 00:00:00 Welcome back to another episode of Two Parents & A Podcast! 00:06:00 How to remember someone's name 00:09:05 The lady of talks to her baby on Tik Tok 00:14:20 We're moving - Renting vs. buying your house 00:36:40 Moving away from your kids / boarding school 00:29:07 California's new child influencer laws 00:34:57 The Sovereign Child by Aaron Struggle 00:37:45 90% of childhood memories are from family vacations 00:45:50 The new iPhone update is the WORST 00:48:00 LOVE YOU GUYS! #twoparentsandapod ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsors this week: - Nutrafol- Start your hair growth journey with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you go to https://www.Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TWOPARENTS.  - Boll and Branch - Get 15% off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at https://www.BollAndBranch.com/alex. Exclusions apply. See site for details. - Quince - Give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince! Go to https://www.Quince.com/alex for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.  ---------------------------------------------------------------- Listen to the pod on Spotify/Apple Podcasts: https://open.spotify.com/show/7BxuZnHmNzOX9MdnzyU4bD?si=5e715ebaf9014fac https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-parents-a-podcast/id1737442386 Follow Two Parents & A Podcast: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/twoparentsandapod TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@twoparentsandapod Follow Alex: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexbennett TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexbennett Follow Harrison: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/harrisonfugman TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@harrisonfugman ---------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: Just Media House -- https://www.justmediahouse.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is a viral exercise class that many of you have DMed me on Instagram because you think it's right up my alley and I'm here to tell you to stop! It's not!

Happy Thursday! In today's episode, Harrison and I are revisiting the “money talk” from episode 10 of Just Alex (RIP, but here's the link: https://youtu.be/8CUxKXQNztk) and breaking down how our financial plans have changed post-baby. We're diving into our joint finances (what we said we were gonna do, but spoiler alert: didn't), the costs of childcare, and how we're setting up a college fund for Tate. We also chat about everything from the costs of parenthood we didn't expect, to what's been surprisingly expensive, and other ways we're planning for the future (are we putting the baby on payroll???). Plus, as always - we've got a few laughs along the way – including what I almost threw at Harrison, things we DMed eachother, and an even deeper dive into the scam that is girl scout cookies (ALL ALLEGED). As always, we love sharing our experiences and just need to make the disclaimer: THIS IS NOT FINANCIAL ADVICE!!! Whether you're in a relationship, expecting, or just curious about how others handle money, we hope this episode sparks some useful conversations. We LOVE YOU GUYS!! Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Welcome back to Two Parents & A Podcast!!!
00:03:30 – Making your wedding your own
00:09:05 – A letter from your ex...
00:14:15 – Breaking down our joint finances (again… post-baby) – joint bank account, buying food, financial accountability
00:22:50 – Q&A: What's one financial tip you would give to someone who just turned 30?
00:29:30 – Q&A: How much childcare really costs (nanny/nanny-share vs. daycare OR stay-at-home)
00:38:50 – Q&A: How much does a hospital bill actually cost?
00:41:50 – Q&A: Financial planning for a baby's future (529 plan, custodial accounts, and putting our baby on payroll LOL)
00:46:05 – Q&A: What's one thing that you didn't expect to cost so much when it comes to parenthood?
00:49:15 – I almost threw WHAT at Harrison?!
00:41:40 – Things we DMed each other: Coke vs cigs
00:56:30 – Girl Scout's scam continued…
00:58:15 – Do you know why plastic straws were banned?!
01:00:00 – LOVE YOU GUYS!!! #twoparentsandapod ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsors this week: - Boll & Branch: Now's your chance to change the way you sleep with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at https://www.BollAndBranch.com/alex. - Hers: Start your initial free online visit today at https://www.forhers.com/ALEX. Hers Weight Loss is not available everywhere. Compounded products are not FDA-approved or verified for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. Restrictions apply. Wegovy® and Ozempic® are not compounded. Actual price depends on product and plan purchased. - Me Undies: This Valentine's Day, give the gift that'll always have them thinking of you and get 20% off your first order, plus free shipping, at https://www.MeUndies.com/alex, enter promo code alex. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Listen to the pod on Spotify/Apple Podcasts: https://open.spotify.com/show/7BxuZnHmNzOX9MdnzyU4bD?si=5e715ebaf9014fac https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-parents-a-podcast/id1737442386 Follow Two Parents & A Podcast: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/twoparentsandapod TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@twoparentsandapod Follow Alex: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexbennett TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexbennett Follow Harrison: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/harrisonfugman TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@harrisonfugman ---------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: Just Media House -- https://www.justmediahouse.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the FIRST episode of Two Parents & A Podcast (feels weird not saying ‘back to another episode of Just Alex!!!'). Really gonna keep this low-key - this is the same show you guys know (and love?) - we just finally got around to that rebrand we've been promising. (Honestly how many more time could I have said “it's just Alex aaaaaand Harrison's here with me tooooo......” hahahha). So here we are, Two Parents & A Podcast - we'll continue to invite y'all into our home weekly (sorry it's so messy - we're new parents) to talk all things parenting, relationships, trending topics, entrepreneurship, and the occasional conspiracy theory. On THIS WEEK's episode - we get an update from Harrison on attending his first bachelor party as a dad. My first weekend alone with the babe had me thinking a lot about parental identity shift & grieving the pre-baby life, so we dive deep into this and my takeaways from the weekend (also just need to say - S/O TO SINGLE MOMS… you guys are super heroes). Next we're laughing at the things we DMed eachother - backseat driving and having two babies at once (not twins??). Harrison DOESN'T laugh at the drunk confession I saw on IG that was hilarious. And we finish out the episode with a very valid questions: Where does your Girl Scout cookie money actually go?! One last thing, if you're new here!!! If you came here for parenting advice - definitely the wrong podcast… But we try our best to share our experiences - this week y'all asked about when you should/when will we move the baby out of the bedroom (answer: we don't know but we'll obviously keep you updated). As always - LOVE YOU GUYS! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Timestamps: 00:00:00 Welcome to Two Parents & A Podcast!!! (yay) 00:03:20 Is accumulating airline miles worth it or just a scam? 00:06:55 Harrison's first bachelor party as a parent 00:11:00 Experiencing parent guilt 00:15:00 Grieving your pre-baby life & parental identity shift 00:22:05 Alex's takeaways from a weekend by herself 00:23:30 Back seat driving 00:28:30 Having two babies at once 00:32:15 4 months old is hard 00:35:55 Drunk confessions 00:37:40 Where does your Girl Scout cookie money actually go?! 00:41:30 Listener question: when will you move the baby out of your room? 00:42:40 WE LOVE YOU GUYS!!!! #justalexpod ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsors this week: - Naväge Baby: Get easy relief for your little ones… order the new Naväge Baby Aspirator and Inhaler today! You can now find Naväge Baby at Walmart or at Walmart.com Or order directly and get full product details from my special URL: https://www.Navage.com/ALEX - Quince: Upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag. Go to https://www.Quince.com/alex for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order! ---------------------------------------------------------------- Listen to the pod on Spotify/Apple Podcasts: https://open.spotify.com/show/7BxuZnHmNzOX9MdnzyU4bD?si=5e715ebaf9014fac https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/two-parents-a-podcast/id1737442386 Follow Two Parents & A Podcast: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/twoparentsandapod TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@twoparentsandapod Follow Alex: Alex's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexbennett Alex's TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexbennett Follow Harrison: Harrison's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/harrisonfugman Harrison's TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@harrisonfugman ---------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: Just Media House -- https://www.justmediahouse.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Connor and Dylan are back this week to give the people what they're DMed about… a TWIN TALK. And boy, did we need one. With more hot gossip and pop culture headlines to discuss than you can even imagine, the twins take to the mic to dive in. Listen for a hot off the presses Broadway 2026 announcement for The Lost Boys, excitement for Allie Trimm and Lencia Kebede in Wicked, and Keke Palmer coming… soon? Jennifer Lopez getting her flowers for Kiss of the Spider Woman has us GAGGING. If she's submitted as Supporting Actress for Awards, will she face off against Ariana Grande(-Butera)? Crush of the week: Leo Woodall. Tune in to learn about why. It's awards season, y'all, so we have to get into our favorite Oscar nominations, Timmy on SNL, most mourned misses, and why we STAN The Last Showgirl with Pamela Anderson. Take it to Broadway and give her a Tony, dammit! Stick around to hear about Dylan's obsession with Two Strangers (Carry a Cake Across New York) and Connor still not over the 2020 Lead Actor in a Musical category that could've been. Chic c'est la vie!Follow DRAMA. on Twitter & Instagram & Tiktok & BlueskyFollow Connor MacDowell on Twitter & InstagramFollow Dylan MacDowell on Twitter & InstagramSubscribe to our show on iHeartRadio Broadway!Support the podcast by subscribing to DRAMA+, which also includes bonus episodes, Instagram Close Friends content, and more!

After making their way into Stone Crown, an unlikely team faces immediate danger. What will they do as they go toe-to-toe with an animosity-laden amphibian, a surly swine, and other critters filled with hostile intent? Join us to continue our guest-DMed special episode featuring Josh "Pink" Pinkerton as we follow Physick Feverfew, Radiance, Gar, and Drellig in their quest. Enjoy, and be sure to join us on our Discord server to thank Josh for his hard work in pulling together an entertaining (and, at times, whimsical) story! ----- Our spot for Battlebards uses music from Battlebards! We hope you like our use of: Capital City - Middlegate - Score Music by Shams Ahsan We're glad you're sharing our story; we really appreciate your support and hope you enjoy what we've created together. We're having fun sharing our adventure with you each week, and we'll only get better with time! If you like what you hear, please take the time to leave us a review on iTunes, since that bumps us up in the ratings and lets others join in the fun. For quick updates on a more real-time basis, follow us on Twitter (@stackodice) and on Instagram (@stackodice), where we'd love to hear from you. Or if you want to share a question or idea with us, drop us a line at stack.o.dice@gmail.com. Also, if you aren't on our Discord server yet, you should be! Check it out here: https://discord.com/invite/sUUJp78r3E Finally, we now have a Ko-fi page! If you wish to support our show with a little money, you can do that today. Please know that we'll use anything you contribute to improve the show. ----- Although none require attribution this time, we used some Creative Commons sound effects and music in this show. Be sure to check out freesound.org, a fantastic resource for completely free sound effects. We also used some excellent Battlebards sound effects. If you like what you hear, check them out at battlebards.com. If you sign up for a Prime account, be sure to use our special code, stack, and you'll get a 20% discount on your subscription. Here are the sound effects we used in this episode: Flail - Hit 3, by Wes Otis Animal Tail Slaps Cloth, by Pablo Betancourt Shortbow Arrow Hits Chainmail, by Jean-Baptiste Savage Beast Bites Cloth, by Olivier Girardot And now, on with the show-- we're excited to tell a story with you.

After escaping from those who sought to control them, Yumi and Clio have settled into a life in hiding. Bonding over shared trauma, the pair have entered into a budding romance. But with all their history, both good and bad, who knows how their first date will go? The Bad Options is a D&D party and podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow this group of ragtag heroes as they navigate a plot of eldritch espionage, shattered trust, and impossible choices. After escaping from those who sought to control them, Yumi and Clio have settled into a life in hiding. Bonding over shared trauma, the pair have entered into a budding romance. But with all their history, both good and bad, who knows how their first date will go? The Bad Options is a D&D party and podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow this group of ragtag heroes as they navigate a plot of eldritch espionage, shattered trust, and impossible choices.

Hello Wonderful Readers,I hope you had a lovely holiday. Despite having Covid and then the flu and watching the neighborhood my mother grew up in being razed by a wildfire, I am keeping my promise to you. I'm here to tell you the story of how Todor and I met. Before I do that, I have one very exciting announcement.Upcoming Topic on Misseducated Podcast: Open RelationshipsNext week, I will be interviewing an anonymous girl about the successful open relationship she's been in with her partner for the last four years. They do all kinds of fun things together, like go to play parties. While open relationships are common, I know very few couples that have done it successfully. She's graciously agreed to be interviewed by me for the Misseducated podcast. So, if you have a question for her, please feel free to comment below if you are a paid subscriber, or you can respond to this email or text me. My interview with her should be great, but whatever questions you send me will make it even better.Thank you so much!I hope you enjoy the romance to come

Welcome back to another episode of Just Alex! So, hypothetically—if you've exhausted all resources and anticipated all needs—what's the least amount of cries a 3-month-old could have in a day?! And who's gonna tell Harrison it's more than 3?? Anyways, Christmas/Hanukkah (Chanukah????) are next week, so we discuss what we were doing this time last year, what we're getting each other as presents, and do newborns need gifts?! (Is a stock a gift??) Then we try out some new segments: Things We've DMed Each Other (Influencers making fun of their kids, Bitcoin at $100k), Biggest Parenting Fail of the Week (write us in yours!!), and Today I Learned (see: Chanukah). OK—HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! We love you guys. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Timestamps:  00:00:00 Welcome back to another episode of Just Alex 00:01:05 What's the least amount of cries a 3-month-old could have in a day? (hypothetical) 00:05:15 De-puffing pregnancy face  00:07:45 Neighborhood holiday activities 00:13:00 This time last year…  00:18:40 Are you supposed to get your newborn gifts for Christmas? 00:24:48 What we've DMed eachother this week (Making fun of your kids, Bitcoin) 00:42:50 Parent fail of the week  00:46:15 Chanukah or Hanukkah? 00:49:28 Listener question - pumping/feeding schedule?  #justalexpod ---------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you to our sponsors this week:  - Lumen: If you want to take the next step in improving your health, go to https://www.lumen.me/JUSTALEX to get 15% off your Lumen. Thank you, Lumen, for sponsoring this episode! - Navage Baby: Order the new Naväge Baby Aspirator and Inhaler today! My listeners can order directly from my exclusive URL: https://www.Navage.com/ALEX  - Mint Mobile: To get this new customer offer and your new 3-month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to https://www.mintmobile.com/alex. $45 upfront payment required (equivalent to $15/mo.). New customers on the first 3 month plan only. Speeds slower above 40GB on Unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, & restrictions apply. See MINT MOBILE for details. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Listen to the pod on Spotify/Apple Podcasts:  https://open.spotify.com/show/7BxuZnHmNzOX9MdnzyU4bD?si=5e715ebaf9014fac https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/just-alex/id1737442386 Follow Just Alex Pod: Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexpod/ TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexpod Follow Alex: Alex's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/justalexbennett Alex's TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@justalexbennett Follow Harrison:  Harrison's Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/harrisonfugman Harrison's TikTok | https://www.tiktok.com/@harrisonfugman ---------------------------------------------------------------- Powered by: Just Media House -- https://www.justmediahouse.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thank you for watching! #emptyshelfgang This episode is a collaboration between Instagram and HST as part of their CloseFriendsOnly campaign #HSTxIG Follow us on Instagram! https://www.instagram.com/thehavingsaidthatshow?igsh=a3lsd2dmNTNreDBk Check out Adi's channel! Follow him on IG: https://www.instagram.com/adisaidthat?igsh=MWFkZXIxZGxlODQ0Yw== Check out his new song: https://linktr.ee/adi.avg Follow Jeh on IG: https://www.instagram.com/coach.jeh?igsh=c2lzeTBpaWJoYTlj Sign up to our newsletter: https://linktr.ee/hstshow Join our FPL league: https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/px6mcr

So we just got done playing Are You Smarter Than Katie and we always ask for Caller 17 to play. Well, I've got a big problem with that and I never thought about it until a listener DMed me. You might have thought about this too. We're getting into this next.

This week, we are releasing a second episode from The End of COVID educational series. In this comprehensive episode, Dr. Stanton, alongside experts Dr. LTC Theresa Long, Dr. LTC Pete Chambers, and Dr. MAJ Sam Sigoloff, dive deep into the impact of COVID-19 vaccines on military personnel using data from the Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED). The discussion reveals alarming trends in health issues like neurological disorders, strokes, and ischemic heart events post-vaccine rollout.    Key topics include the manipulation of health data, whistleblower challenges, and the broader implications for military readiness and public health. The narrative highlights ethical concerns and calls for greater accountability and support for affected service members, advocating for informed and courageous leadership within the military.   Timestamps: 00:00 Introduction and Host's Background 01:44 Meet the Experts: Dr. Theresa Long, Dr. Pete Chambers, and Dr. Sam Siglaf 04:16 The Alarming DMED Data 05:54 Initial Reactions and Data Analysis 13:00 Legal Battles and Whistleblower Protections 15:50 Data Manipulation and System Glitches 21:00 Real-World Implications and Personal Stories 28:54 Pilot-Related Incidents and Concerning Trends 29:42 Deployment Observations and Health Concerns 30:59 Reportable Events and Aviation Safety 32:24 Vaccine Mandates and Military Impact 35:14 Whistleblowers and Legal Battles 38:29 Alternative Medical Licensing Solutions 41:50 Military Leadership and Accountability 46:40 Final Thoughts and Call to Action Resources:   Remember to Rate, Review, and Subscribe on iTunes and Follow us on Spotify!   Learn more about The End of COVID:   https://theendofcovid.com/ref/352/    Learn more about Dr. Stanton Hom on:   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drstantonhom  Website: https://futuregenerationssd.com/    Podcast Website: https://thefuturegen.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/drstantonhom  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stanhomdc    Stay Connected with the Future Generations Podcast:   Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/futuregenpodcast  https://www.instagram.com/thefuturegensd  https://www.instagram.com/drstantonhom    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/futuregenpodcast/  https://www.facebook.com/thefuturegensd/  If you would like to learn more about the truth behind the pandemic, please check out The End of C0V1D.  Click the link to sign up: https://theendofcovid.com/ref/352/    Get the Heart of Freedom III Replay here: https://hof3replay.thefuturegen.com/hof3recording  Join the Future Generations Community here: https://community.thefuturegen.com  San Diego area residents, take advantage of our special New Patient offer exclusively for podcast listeners here. We can't wait to experience miracles with you!   The desire to go off grid and have the ability to grow your own food has never been stronger than before. No matter the size of your property, Food Forest Abundance can help you design a regenerative layout that utilizes your resources in the most synergistic and sustainable manner. If you are interested in breaking free from the system, please visit www.foodforestabundance.com and use code “thefuturegen” to receive a discount on their incredible services.   Show your eyes some love with a pair of daylight or sunset (or both!) blue-light blocking glasses from Ra Optics. They have graciously offered Future Generations podcast listeners 10% off any purchase. Use code FGPOD or click here to access this discount, and let us know how your glasses are treating you!   Are you a fan of cold plunges? Did you know you can get your hands on a PORTABLE ice bath? Check out the Edge Theory Labs website to learn more about the benefits of cold plunges. Future Generations podcast listeners can enjoy $150 off any tub by using code THEFUTUREGEN. Happy plunging!   One of the single best companies whose clean products have supported the optimal wellness of our family is Earthley Wellness. Long before there was a 2020, Kate Tetje and her team have stood for TRUTH, HEALTH and FREEDOM in ways that paved the way for so many of us. In collaboration with this incredible team, we are proud to offer you 10% off of your first purchase by shopping here.   Are you concerned about food supply insecurity? Our family has rigorously sourced our foods for over a decade and one of our favorite sources is Farm Match and specifically for San Diego locals, “Real Food Club PMA”. My kids are literally made from their maple breakfast sausage and the amazing carnitas we make from their pasture raised pork. We are thrilled to share 10% off your first order when you shop at this link.   Another important way to bolster food security is by supporting local ranchers. Our favorite local regenerative ranch is Perennial Pastures. They have the best nutrient-dense meats that are 100% grass-fed and pasture-raised. You can get $10 off of your first purchase when you use the code: "FUTUREGENERATIONS" at checkout. Start shopping here.  

Dreams are powerful, and can sometimes guide wandering feet from distant lands into one place. Several strangers to each other find themselves brought together by a fateful vision, and are now pressing on to discover for themselves what their sleep has revealed in troubling fog.  Join us for this guest-DMed special episode featuring Josh "Pink" Pinkerton, who has done stellar work for the Tales From the Glass-Guarded World podcast, as we continue to follow Physick Feverfew, Radiance, Gar, and Drellig in their quest. Enjoy, and be sure to join us on our Discord server to thank Josh for his hard work in pulling together an entertaining (and, at times, whimsical) story! ----- Our spot for Battlebards uses music from Battlebards! We hope you like our use of: Capital City - Middlegate - Score Music by Shams Ahsan We're glad you're sharing our story; we really appreciate your support and hope you enjoy what we've created together. We're having fun sharing our adventure with you each week, and we'll only get better with time! If you like what you hear, please take the time to leave us a review on iTunes, since that bumps us up in the ratings and lets others join in the fun. For quick updates on a more real-time basis, follow us on Twitter (@stackodice) and on Instagram (@stackodice), where we'd love to hear from you. Or if you want to share a question or idea with us, drop us a line at stack.o.dice@gmail.com. Also, if you aren't on our Discord server yet, you should be! Check it out here: https://discord.com/invite/sUUJp78r3E Finally, we now have a Ko-fi page! If you wish to support our show with a little money, you can do that today. Please know that we'll use anything you contribute to improve the show. ----- We used some Creative Commons sound effects and music in this show. For the sake of attribution, we list them here. The following were taken from freesound.org, a fantastic resource for completely free sound effects. Sound effects that fall under the Attribution license: Waterfall.wav is a copyright of cosmo235 Evil Laugh/Cackle (female) is a copyright of iainmccurdy Door Squeak, Normal, D.wav is a copyright of InspectorJ Alarm double.FM.Multi sinus(Sytrus,2lrs,mltprcssng).wav is a copyright of newlocknew Sound effects that fall under the Attribution Noncommercial license: Metal Cowbells Swinging is a copyright of Idalize Cracking wood is a copyright of JappeHallunken We also used some excellent Battlebards sound effects. If you like what you hear, check them out at battlebards.com. If you sign up for a Prime account, be sure to use our special code, stack, and you'll get a 20% discount on your subscription. Here are the sound effects we used in this episode: Elven Village - Ascending the Vale - Score Music, by Kevin MacLeod Crypts of the Undead - Stain of the Departed - Score Music, by Evan Kitchener Weather - Medium Wind, by Olivier Girardot Doors and Portals - Barred Door Opening, by Franco Cugusi Doors and Portals - Massive Wood Door, by Phil Archer Boss Fight Theme - Cradle of Evil - Score Music, by Stefano Vita And now, on with the show-- we're excited to tell a story with you.

Enjoy this rerelease of an epic one shot DMed by Jen taking place in between season Two and Three.  Madcap fun!

Dreams are powerful, and can sometimes guide wandering feet from distant lands into one place. Although some of the faces may be familiar to us, several strangers to each other find themselves brought together by a fateful vision, and must determine what they will do with the hand dealt them. Join us for this guest-DMed special episode featuring Josh "Pink" Pinkerton, who has done stellar work for the Tales From the Glass-Guarded World podcast, as he shares a story that runs parallel to the main campaign and will tie in so very nicely. And, lest we forget, here's the intro to the 80s cartoon Wildfire that Meredith loved to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKk1RQL-dx8 Enjoy, and be sure to join us on our Discord server to thank Josh for his hard work in pulling together an entertaining (and, at times, whimsical) story! ----- We're glad you're sharing our story; we really appreciate your support and hope you enjoy what we've created together. We're having fun sharing our adventure with you each week, and we'll only get better with time! If you like what you hear, please take the time to leave us a review on iTunes, since that bumps us up in the ratings and lets others join in the fun. For quick updates on a more real-time basis, follow us on Twitter (@stackodice) and on Instagram (@stackodice), where we'd love to hear from you. Or if you want to share a question or idea with us, drop us a line at stack.o.dice@gmail.com. Also, if you aren't on our Discord server yet, you should be! Check it out here: https://discord.com/invite/sUUJp78r3E Finally, we now have a Ko-fi page! If you wish to support our show with a little money, you can do that today. Please know that we'll use anything you contribute to improve the show. ----- We used some Creative Commons sound effects and music in this show. For the sake of attribution, we list them here. The following were taken from freesound.org, a fantastic resource for completely free sound effects. Sound effects that fall under the Attribution Noncommercial license: Heavy Rain is a copyright of lebaston100 We also used some excellent Battlebards sound effects. If you like what you hear, check them out at battlebards.com. If you sign up for a Prime account, be sure to use our special code, stack, and you'll get a 20% discount on your subscription. Here are the sound effects we used in this episode: Elven Dirge - Immortal's End - Score Music, by Eric Richards Elven Village - Ascending the Vale - Score Music, by Kevin MacLeod And now, on with the show-- we're excited to tell a story with you.

Enjoy this rerelease of an epic one shot DMed by Jen taking place in between season Two and Three.  Madcap fun!

Not Everyone Is Going To Like You. Parenting strategies to help kids cope.

At the doorstep of Mr. Mask's estate, the Bad Options search for a path to the Sword of Kas. But when an impossible choice is presented to Clio, the team needs to pick who and what to be loyal to. The Tenth Tomb is a D&D actual play podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow this group of ragtag heroes as they navigate a plot of eldritch espionage, shattered trust, and impossible choices.

In the aftermath of Clio's betrayal, the Bad Options prepare themselves to infiltrate the estate of Mathias Fowler and steal the shards of Kas' Blade. With trust between the party broken, our heroes will need to find some way to ban together in the face of the impossible. The Tenth Tomb is a D&D actual play podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow this group of ragtag heroes as they navigate a plot of eldritch espionage, shattered trust, and impossible choices.

After losing their opportunity to retrieve the shards of Kas' blade, the party find themselves in battle with the Red Wizards of Thay. With their only contact on the outside silent and possibly dead, all that's left to do is FIGHT! The Tenth Tomb is a D&D actual play podcast DMed by yours truly! Follow this group of ragtag heroes as they navigate a plot of eldritch espionage, shattered trust, and impossible choices.

Our guest this week is Elisa Teague as we continue our Gary Con 2024 series of 50 years of Dungeons and Dragons interviews. We discuss her history with the game, including a 13-year D&D campaign! We discuss her work with Founders and Legends, The Crooked Moon: Folk Horror in 5E by Legends of Avantris, Surviving Strange Hollow, Gloomhaven RPG, Marvel Multiverse Role-Playing Game (Cataclysm of Kang and the upcoming X-Men Expansion Sourcebook. We get into our favorite X-people. Elisa has a love of Magneto. Steve likes Jubilee, Zach is into Gambit & Cable, Andrew likes Nightcrawler, and Matt Forbeck chimes in with love for Wolverine.Her latest project is Legacy of Worlds, an actual play D&D show that just premiered on the Six Sides of Gaming YouTube channel starring Elisa, Ed Greenwood, Keith Baker, Luke Gygax, Tommy Gofton, and DMed by Devin Wilson.Follow Elisa: Website - IG - Facebook - X—ANNOUNCEMENTSTHE MEGA DUNGEON MEN EP is out now on all streaming platforms. Our new TTRPG fantasy meets hip hop album features Mega Ran, MC Frontalot, Denkles and Dizzy the Bard dropping verses alongside Dragon Warrior and Tiger Wizard all set to nostalgic beats by Inner Resting.NEW POSTER MAP: We have a new poster adventure map now available for purchase at Exalted Funeral based on our Mad Dungeon season one, episode 20, Song of the Shriekfrapp, with the legendary Erol Otus—who not only made the adventure with us, but also illustrated the 11x17 front-side poster image! JOIN OUR MAILING LISTby clicking the newsletter button on our homepage.—Thanks for listening to Season Three of the Epic Levels Mad Dungeon podcast Side Quests where we interview other game creators.You can support us via Patreon & socials HEREMad Dungeon is hosted by Andrew Bellury, Steve Albertson, Robin Bellury and produced by Zach Cowan.Theme song by Epic Levels and beat by Jay Domingo.© 2024 Epic Levels. All characters in our adventures–even those based on real people–are entirely fictional.

Al and Jonnie talk about their first impressions on the 1.6 update for Stardew Valley. Timings 00:00:00: Theme Tune 00:00:30: Intro 00:01:19: What Have We Been Up To 00:10:59: News 00:39:12: Stardew 1.6 01:43:26: Output Links Fae Farm “Spring” Update Ikonei Island “Blooming Beginnings” Update Steamworld Build “Mechanicsl Meadows” Update Palia 0.178 Update Travelers Rest “Fishing” Update Tales of the Shire Teaser Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin Anime Contact Al on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheScotBot Al on Mastodon: https://mastodon.scot/@TheScotBot Email Us: https://harvestseason.club/contact/ Transcript (0:00:30) Al: Hello farmers, and welcome to another episode of the harvest season. (0:00:34) Al: My name is Al, and we’re here today to talk about cottagecore games. (0:00:36) Jonnie: and my name is Johnny! (0:00:42) Al: Today, well first of all transcripts are available on the show notes and on the website, as usual. (0:00:50) Al: Today we’re going back to our roots. (0:00:53) Al: Today we are going to talk about Stardew Valley 1.6, it’s finally here, and we have lots of thoughts. (0:01:00) Al: And I have 30 hours of stard you played this week. (0:01:10) Al: So we were going to talk about that. (0:01:13) Al: We’ll leave all that for the main section. (0:01:17) Al: Before that, we’ve got a bunch of news to talk about. (0:01:19) Al: First of all, Johnny, have you been playing anything other than stard you? (0:01:23) Al: » Okay. » Ooh. (0:01:24) Jonnie: Uh, I kind of have been so alongside alongside statue I’ve been slowly getting back into old-school landscape (0:01:32) Jonnie: Uh, I have a few friends who are playing (0:01:35) Jonnie: and (0:01:37) Jonnie: I don’t know what to tell you for a game. It’s terrible. It’s pretty fun terrible game and (0:01:44) Jonnie: I’ve been having a bit of fun playing that with with some with some friends and (0:01:48) Jonnie: Joking about it like it has farming in it, but it’s never a game that we would cover on the show (0:01:52) Jonnie: Uh, I I think the summary is (0:01:54) Jonnie: farming in that game pretty bad but you know pretty much everything in that game is pretty bad so yeah but I did do a quest last night that was all about frogs kind of taking over to humanity and you murder a frog unintentionally it’s it’s pretty great (0:02:16) Al: I accept our new frog overlords. They probably will do a better job than humans. (0:02:24) Jonnie: I don’t know, these frogs seemed pretty terrible. (0:02:28) Jonnie: I would be much more in favour of the penguins rolling over us. (0:02:32) Jonnie: Which is an entirely different story. (0:02:36) Al: Uh, dear. Cool. Uh, well, I mean, I don’t, yeah, I’ve, I don’t think I’ve (0:02:40) Jonnie: But that’s it, that’s it. What if you’ve been up to well? (0:02:46) Al: had any time for anything other than Stardew with my 30 hours this week. Uh, that’s almost a full-time job. Um, I am tired, but I did want to talk about my Animal Crossing Lego again. Um, do you have anything to say, Johnny? Which ones did you get? (0:03:02) Jonnie: yeah I have I have two of the animal crossing lego things um I i got the um tom nook and (0:03:12) Jonnie: blue cat I don’t know what the name of the cat is um (0:03:15) Al: Do you not have the box in front of you to look at? (0:03:18) Jonnie: uh I do not have the box in front of me the box in the other room (0:03:22) Jonnie: I got that one and I got the island camping um set and they are pretty great (0:03:31) Al: the island camping, what is that? The Bunnies Outdoor Adventures one. (0:03:36) Al: What I really like about, so I’ve done that one, I’ve built that one. I’ve not built the Tom Nook one. I’ve built the Bunnies Outdoor Adventure, the birthday party one, and (0:03:49) Al: the farming one. I’ve built those three. I haven’t built the Tom Nook one or Captain’s (0:04:01) Al: Boat one, but what I will say is, so Bunnies Outdoor Adventure, I love how, so they’ve got the little river bit, and Bunnie has a stick that goes into a bit that can then (0:04:15) Al: act like your, you know how early game you use the stick to get across the rivers? (0:04:20) Al: It’s like, it’s built into it. So yeah, so it’s built into it. So there’s a bit behind the river where you put the stick in and then they can literally vault over the river. It’s really (0:04:20) Jonnie: Yeah, it’s like the pole vault. (0:04:31) Al: really nicely done. I think it’s very close. (0:04:34) Jonnie: Yeah, I think that set is really well put together and as far as LEGO sets go it’s like pretty, uh, pretty affordable. (0:04:46) Al: Okay. Okay, I mean, I guess that’s one way of putting it, right? They are cheaper than other sets, but they’re also smaller than other sets. So I guess they’ve erred on the side of making them more affordable rather than making them bigger, and that’s fair. (0:04:49) Jonnie: Like, like a lot of LEGO sets are like into the hundreds of dollars and this one is not in the hundreds of dollars. (0:05:02) Jonnie: Yeah, I think when I say affordable, I think that it’s not very complicated to put together, (0:05:15) Jonnie: but it’s a cool set to have, and there’s a lot of modularity within the set. I think for (0:05:23) Jonnie: what you pay for a set of this size, I was relatively impressed. (0:05:32) Al: Yeah, I’ve also built the Isabelle one as well, I’ve been joining them all together as I build them, because they all have the same connections to put together, because they’re built on those, if you’ve had any of the Mario sets, you’ll know the same sort of things, it’s like the same small base plates that it’s all made up of, so you can, as you say, they’re modular, you can put them together how you want. So yeah, as I finish one I just connect it together. So I’ve just got this (0:06:02) Al: mess of an island growing beside my desk. It’s quite fun. I also I meant to mention this on the last podcast, but I completely forgot. I also went to the the Animal Crossing Lego Make and Take event at the Lego store because they were doing them and they did them and well, they did it in Edinburgh, but I was I didn’t go to the Edinburgh one. I actually went to the Glasgow one in Scotland and it was good fun. (0:06:08) Jonnie: Great. I love that. (0:06:32) Al: A little, it’s like a really maybe like a five to one scale version of the building that you get in the Isabelle one. So it’s because it looks it looks almost identical just tiny and it’s fun to have the two versions together like it’s a it’s a really small one like the base plate is eight eight by eight whereas the the fill size one is like. (0:07:02) Al: It’s probably about the same size as Nook’s Cranny that you’ve got in that set. It’s kind of like decent sized, but it’s fun to have the two of them together. But it was fun because it was my first Make and Take event that I’d been to at a Lego store and it was quite fun because you go up and obviously because it’s Animal Crossing it was really popular so really busy. A lot of not children there I will say probably not surprisingly and you stood in a queue for about half an hour. (0:07:32) Al: And then you got in and they had like all the different pots with all the different pieces and then you followed the instructions to put them together. (0:07:39) Al: They did say that if you wanted to, you could just grab a bag and put all the pieces in it and take it all home rather than building it there. (0:07:44) Al: But I was like, well, I’m here with my kid. (0:07:47) Al: Let’s do it while we’re here. (0:07:48) Al: Why not? (0:07:49) Al: And it was good fun to do that. (0:07:52) Jonnie: Nice, and do your kids get involved in helping you build the LEGO sets, or do they not even know they exist and you do them in secret? (0:07:57) Al: No, so Craig does… I mean Nathan doesn’t really care about Lego, right? He doesn’t have. It is just a care. Craig really likes Lego, but me and him do not build Lego together because I am not good at sharing that. And so much as like I just get really frustrated with how he does things. So thankfully Rona is a lot better than that at me, so she builds with him and then. (0:08:27) Al: I have my sets that I build on my own, so it’s fun to see him build it Lego and he’s like really creative with it as well, with not obviously not the sets like you build the sets like you build the sets and he’s quite good at following the instructions and I think with this one because it was such a small set it was it worked well kind of going right here’s the piece Craig where does this piece go and he would look at the instructions put it on (0:08:53) Al: but when it’s like a bigger set it just drives me insane trying to do it I would be the same with (0:08:57) Al: right it’s it’s not about him it’s just about the fact that I’m a control freak right so I need to do it myself but yeah so Rona quite often buy like will buy sets that are like the Lego city and stuff like that that they build together which is basically his sets and when he’s a little bit older he’d probably just build them by himself but he enjoys building (0:09:14) Jonnie: Nice. Yeah, I did the… (0:09:20) Jonnie: Awesome, I did the Animal Crossing sets with my niece, who’s five, and (0:09:25) Jonnie: we had a lot of fun, but it was very much the like “I’m trying to follow the instructions” and she’s like “Let’s put this piece here because it looks cool” and it’s just… so it was a lot of chaos and then when she went home, I immediately took apart everything she’d done because it’s not how it’s supposed to be. (0:09:30) Al: I suspect I’ll let him play with these once I’m finished because I think he’ll have fun putting them together and making a story out of it. He has that creative aspect of things. (0:09:50) Al: But yeah, not while I’m building them. He enjoys playing like I did a bunch of Mario builds like the Bowser’s Airship was particularly fun. (0:10:00) Al: And he loves to play with that. (0:10:01) Al: So I’m totally fine with him playing with these things. (0:10:03) Al: It’s just like when I’m building it, I like to build it. (0:10:06) Al: And it’s like involving anybody in that process takes all the fun out of it for me, you know? (0:10:15) Jonnie: Yeah (0:10:17) Al: But the small make and take event was fun enough to do it. (0:10:21) Al: Because I went into it knowing, this is a me and Craig event. (0:10:24) Al: This is what we’re going to do. (0:10:27) Al: It’s small enough. (0:10:28) Al: It was like 25 pieces or something. (0:10:30) Al: Like that. So it’s small enough that you’re not kind of getting overly stressed about anything. (0:10:36) Al: The biggest stress was trying to find the pieces because you had 10 people crowded around a table with 25 different boxes of different pieces. It was, it was. I can understand why some people would just take the pieces and leave because it’s, yeah. But I was like, no, I want to get it done here. I think it’s fun and we’re here. Why not? So, yeah, it was good fun. (0:10:44) Jonnie: Yeah, in many ways that sounds like a nightmare. (0:11:00) Al: Should we talk about some news? We have, this is going to be the episode of updates because there are so many updates. I don’t know why this week has suddenly been the (0:11:11) Al: let’s post an update. But the first of the updates is Fae Farm. They have their spring update, (0:11:16) Al: which is out now. It looks like they have kind of three main things, which is stuff on stuff, (0:11:22) Al: where you can put like things on, you can put items on tables and other things, presumably. (0:11:31) Al: Yeah, it looks like you put things on tables, barrels, crates, desks, display stands, carts, (0:11:42) Al: and a stack of books. Or does that mean you can put a stack of books on a stack of books? (0:11:47) Al: Need to see how tall a stack of books you can make. (0:11:52) Al: They also have a bunch of new cosmetics. Yes. (0:11:52) Jonnie: A question for you, Al. (0:11:55) Jonnie: Are you like this is a sort of update that’s like some people get really excited about but I’m like (0:12:02) Jonnie: If I don’t get into that phase of the designing phase of a game it within my first playthrough It’s highly unlikely that I’m ever gonna get there and I don’t know that this is the sort of thing It’s gonna bring in where are you at in terms of like designing farms cuz I don’t know if it’s anything that we’ve really discussed that much (0:12:17) Al: Yeah, I think I’m not very good at designing things. I will, like if we think about the stardew run I’ve been doing just now, I have been laying out my farm in a very specific way, (0:12:32) Al: but it’s very much like as many straight lines as possible. So it’s like I want to be able to go (0:12:40) Al: from the entrance to my greenhouse in a straight line sort of thing. So I will build paths. (0:12:48) Al: And fences in a way that makes it easy for that to do. I’m not really the sort of person that’ll be like, “Oh yeah, here’s our five by five bit and then I’ll put some bushes between this five by five crop section and the next five by five.” I’m like, “No, I don’t really care about that.” (0:13:10) Al: I’m very much a do the things, not necessarily make it look nice. (0:13:18) Al: So yeah, I mean, the fact that you can now put things on a table is definitely not going to encourage me to come back to this game, nor the extra cosmetics and stuff like that. (0:13:28) Al: I mean, they do have a bunch of extra things in the character creator, which is obviously good. (0:13:32) Al: But I tell you, there’s one thing that could possibly bring me back, (0:13:37) Al: which is the double day length setting that they’ve added into the game. (0:13:42) Al: So the standard setting for Faith Arm is an 18 minute day. The double day gives you… (0:13:48) Al: 36 minutes. (0:13:50) Al: However, having said that, I always feel like days are too long at the beginning (0:13:55) Al: of a game and too short at the end of a game. Do I really want a 36 minute day (0:14:03) Al: when I have almost no stamina? (0:14:06) Jonnie: - Yeah, I don’t know, like, to be honest, in general, (0:14:09) Jonnie: I’m kind of like, I know this is becoming a standard feature. (0:14:14) Jonnie: I think this is a feature that actually does a disservice to a lot of these games. (0:14:20) Jonnie: Like I understand why people think they want a longer day, (0:14:26) Jonnie: but one of the big limitations I think in these sorts of games is that people don’t often get all the way through, you know, a year. (0:14:36) Jonnie: Yeah, I think you and Bev talked about in the last episode, like people don’t necessarily always get to year two, right? (0:14:42) Jonnie: It’s lucky, you know, people are like excited that they hit winter in these sorts of games. (0:14:48) Jonnie: And doubling the day length, I think, means that there’s a large portion of the games that people will miss out on. (0:14:53) Jonnie: Coral Island has this feature and it’s not something that I think is a great choice to put in. (0:15:06) Jonnie: Once you get into the flow of one of these games, about a, you know, that 15 to 20 minute day length is about the right length. (0:15:12) Jonnie: I just, yeah, I don’t, we played FIFA and never felt like I wanted a longer day but I (0:15:22) Al: yeah I mean I didn’t want a longer day in fey farm but that’s probably because I didn’t really want to be playing it like I think as we discussed at the time I think the biggest thing that i enjoyed about fey farm was the traversal which I still stand on I still think that more games need to do that better but that was I mean nothing else about that game made me go this is amazing I need to keep playing this in general so yeah I didn’t want the day to be longer for that - Yeah. (0:15:52) Al: And I’m the same person that, you know, (0:15:54) Al: in the last episode I talked about how I speed run the game at the beginning anyway, because there’s not enough energy (0:16:03) Al: to do what you want to do. (0:16:04) Al: So just get through it and you get to the next day and that’s fine, you can do it then. (0:16:12) Al: Oh, it’s Friday, I need to go to the traveling cart. (0:16:14) Al: Sorry, I’m not playing the game. (0:16:19) Al: Yeah, I think it’s interesting. (0:16:23) Al: Also, I think I am more leaning towards trying out new things like Sugar Jew, (0:16:31) Al: what is that game called? (0:16:32) Al: Sugar Jew Island? (0:16:35) Al: Goodness me, get a better name. (0:16:38) Al: And it’s lack of a specific amount of day anyway, (0:16:45) Al: like it’s just you play the day and then you finish the day when you want to finish the day sort of thing. (0:16:52) Al: So being something like that would probably be more interesting to me than just, oh, it’s a longer day. (0:16:58) Jonnie: Yeah, I think that makes sense. (0:17:00) Jonnie: I think I’m with you, and it’s something Cody and I talked about on the “Palea” episode there. (0:17:07) Jonnie: I think I’m kind of just a bit over the regular day/night cycle. (0:17:13) Jonnie: And I’m more interested in games that are trying something different or just more tied to real time and getting rid of stamina mechanics. (0:17:21) Jonnie: My favorite thing about “Palea” is still the fact that they– (0:17:24) Jonnie: instead of stamina being this limiting thing, (0:17:26) Jonnie: They have a similar mechanic. (0:17:28) Jonnie: But it gets you more rewards for having high stamina and you just eat food to replenish it. (0:17:34) Jonnie: To me, that’s one of the best stamina variations that exist. (0:17:40) Al: Yeah, definitely try new things, let’s see what you can do. (0:17:45) Al: It does look like this setting is something you can change as you’re playing, so it’s the sort of thing I could definitely see myself going, oh, just having the normal day length, (0:17:53) Al: but then if I’m getting close to a point in the minds that I want to, just making the day longer at that point, I could see myself doing something like that. (0:18:02) Jonnie: Yeah, but even then the mines like the they’re not (0:18:08) Jonnie: The time is not a real limiting factor for them right because it’s because you can teleport to every floor (0:18:10) Al: I think it depends. I think, sure, okay, but wait, okay. More thinking, Skull Cavern. Like if you’re trying to go get Iridium, which is the thing that becomes a real limiting thing in these games at some point, is you need to go to Skull Cavern. And if you are, (0:18:35) Al: you know, 70 levels down, you’re getting really close to the area where there’s lots of stuff (0:18:40) Al: you’ve probably brought a bunch of food to keep your stamina up. There’s no way for you to extend the time that you can be down there for. And there’s a whole bunch of other stuff as well, (0:18:53) Al: but there’s stuff around characters and relationships. I’m sure they’ve not (0:18:58) Jonnie: I agree, look, I think where I’m at at Fae farmers, like we played it for the show, I thought there was a lot of potential there, but ultimately the game fell flat and there’s just so much else coming out, I can’t say that. (0:19:11) Al: Yeah, I still have, I bought the game physically and I still have it in my pile here and every time I go to sell some games, I’m like, I don’t think I’m going to play it, but I feel like I want to keep it just in case, but then I keep not playing it. So I think I need to set a deadline on myself. If I’ve not played it by me, then I get rid of it. I couldn’t, (0:19:38) Al: I, oh, no, I. (0:19:41) Al: I need to double check what there was a video and they said the name of the game and it was different. Ikone. It said, yes, so the it’s Ikone. That is what the video said Ikone. (0:19:48) Jonnie: I would guess, which is always a safe thing to do with pronunciation, econy? (0:19:58) Al: Ikone Island. So there you go. Finally learned I’ve been saying this name wrong the whole time. (0:20:06) Al: Ikone Island have released their Blooming Beginnings update. (0:20:11) Al: This marks the time where they are also out on PlayStation and Xbox. (0:20:16) Al: It looks like there’s lots of small things. The only kind of big thing that I can see is they have completely redone their UI. So if you have played this game, (0:20:27) Al: get ready to be annoyed by it changing. That’s my experience with with the The UI is changing and games is just being frustrated with it, even if it’s better. (0:20:40) Jonnie: Correct because you get used to whatever terrible things have been done and then it changes and your brain has to reset (0:20:47) Jonnie: It’s why it’s why UI is one of the most difficult things to get right in games (0:20:50) Al: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s kind of all I really want to talk about there. The patch notes are in the show notes. If you have played it and you want to go look at it. (0:21:03) Jonnie: I think it’s cool that it’s out on PlayStation Xbox, this is kind of one that was like on the back burner of my mind (0:21:09) Jonnie: Just because I think I prefer playing these games on on a console and so now that it’s on a console It’s something I’m like thinking about a little bit more (0:21:18) Al: Yes, and hopefully them releasing it at the same time as an update means that they’re going to then continue with updates coming to both at the same time. That’s always, I mean, that’s the advantage of bigger teams. (0:21:31) Jonnie: - Yeah, that would be… (0:21:35) Al: Steam World Build also have an update. Mechanical Meadows, they have a lovely little (0:21:44) Al: six bullet points of the things that they’ve added. They’ve added 11 player placeable decors, (0:21:50) Al: five environment decors, 10 mine decors, three agent decors, one tumbleweed, (0:21:58) Al: and one custom light and post. There you go, lots of things to decorate. (0:22:06) Al: Oh, that should be decor then, isn’t it? (0:22:08) Al: That’s why, that’s what that word is. (0:22:11) Al: That’s just the start of decorate, isn’t it? (0:22:13) Al: Decor, decorate. (0:22:14) Jonnie: I said your pronunciation, it was funny because your pronunciation was like just marginally off not but not enough that I was like not enough to mention it until we’ve now mentioned it (0:22:22) Al: I think I… I think I said “decor”, didn’t I? But it’s… If it’s short for “decoration”, (0:22:28) Jonnie: uh yeah yeah I was like ah whatever it’s (0:22:32) Al: I don’t say “decoration”, so it would be “decoration decor”. Anyway, if you want to decorate your town, I guess it’s a town? In Steam World Build? That’s out now. Speaking of updates, (0:22:42) Jonnie: I don’t know. Yeah, it must be town. (0:22:48) Al: Cali also have an update. They’re 0.17 (0:22:52) Al: update is out now. I mean at this point just call it update 178. I don’t know why it’s 0 point, right? People are so obsessed with 1.0 I don’t think it means anything. Just give us the number. It’s just update 178. (0:23:07) Al: Do you think you’re suddenly at 1 point going to go to 1.0? You’re not gonna do that when you’re at 0.178. (0:23:16) Jonnie: They will but they’re just gonna go at that after like, you know update 197 or something (0:23:20) Al: The theme of this patch is all about spring. They have added the temple of the roots, which is a new temple. Is temples a big thing in Palia? I still haven’t played it. (0:23:35) Jonnie: Yeah, so so temples are temples are kind of the big thing and it was missing one (0:23:42) Jonnie: They could always add more but the the setup was (0:23:43) Al: Well, well, yes, it says it says it won’t be the last temple, but they’re not going to say anything else about that now. (0:23:45) Jonnie: was for (0:23:49) Jonnie: Yeah (0:23:51) Al: That’s what it says in the in the thing. (0:23:52) Al: So. (0:23:53) Jonnie: No, that’s that’s not a surprise they’re kind of like the so they’re that they’re effectively like the big dungeons that a lot of the story (0:24:01) Jonnie: hangs off of in in Palia (0:24:05) Jonnie: They are interesting because it’s interesting to see the implementation of dungeons in a game with no combat (0:24:11) Jonnie: And some of them I think are really good (0:24:12) Al: Oh, there’s no combat in this. (0:24:17) Jonnie: Yeah, oh, I guess there technically is if you want to think of hunting (0:24:22) Jonnie: Animals and you know one-sided murder as combat, but there is nothing that attacks you back I guess (0:24:25) Al: One-sided murder. (0:24:32) Jonnie: Yeah (0:24:33) Al: I think that’s just called murder. (0:24:35) Jonnie: I Mean I guess but but you could always like you could try to move to someone and they can fight back right like this (0:24:37) Al: Yes, that’s not two-sided murder. (0:24:44) Al: That’s just not murder. (0:24:46) Al: That’s called attacking someone. (0:24:48) Al: It’s not murder. (0:24:50) Al: Oh dear. (0:24:50) Jonnie: Yeah okay, that’s fair. Look, it’s very early, and I’m saying things that barely make sense, so… (0:24:55) Al: [LAUGH] Fair enough. (0:25:03) Jonnie: But yeah, there is nothing that can attack you in the game, is probably the point. So I’m interested to see another dungeon of roots kind of make sense in the theming that all of the dungeons have been and what we got so far. I think there’s like a wind one. (0:25:20) Jonnie: There’s a lava one. There’s the first one that is kind of quite short and basic, and I don’t really remember if it had a theme or if the theme was “Hey, it’s a dungeon”. Yeah, a little bit, (0:25:30) Al: Was… yeah, was the theme tutorial. (0:25:36) Jonnie: if I remember rightly. So I haven’t really jumped back into Pahlia since we did the episode, (0:25:45) Jonnie: because it kind of felt like there was features missing, and I was waiting. (0:25:51) Jonnie: And this is getting me pretty close to thinking like “Okay, there’s probably enough stuff that’s been added that it might be a good time to jump back in and see what’s different in Pahlia.” (0:26:00) Al: That’s always the problem with these lots of little updates, right? Like with Stardew, (0:26:05) Al: it’s been like two and a half years since the last update. And so, you know, if you want to jump in, (0:26:11) Al: now’s the time to jump in with all these like little updates every month or two. You’re like, (0:26:18) Al: “Well, what point do I do this?” And I understand why they do it, right? Because if you’re, (0:26:23) Al: well, first of all, it’s obviously a game that they want to encourage people to be constantly playing, right? Like, that’s just how they’re doing things. (0:26:31) Al: But equally, they just want people to have stuff if they want to continue playing the game all the time, right? (0:26:37) Al: Like, there’s always new stuff for people. (0:26:41) Jonnie: Yeah, I think that’s a good point. I do consider there to be a bit of a difference though, like Stardew can afford to do that because it has such great brand recognition that a big update will cut through a lot of things and people are likely to jump back in. (0:26:59) Jonnie: I don’t know that that’s as true for a game like Palia. Like I don’t know if there’s as much benefit for them to have a big update versus a bunch of little updates and hope that people pick up like, (0:27:11) Jonnie: but I see Palia pop up from time to time. It seems like they’re doing a lot in that game, so maybe it’s worth checking out. (0:27:18) Jonnie: I wonder if there’s sort of two different approaches that can both work based on the size and cut through. (0:27:23) Al: That’s fair, but it doesn’t need to be, you know, either you do it every two and a half years or you do it every two months, right? You can have a… you can do it every six months and have bigger updates that way, right? Like, and I don’t think that would… I don’t think suddenly people are going to forget that your game exists if you take six months (0:27:44) Jonnie: Yeah, I think with weird games like Palia or Ato, I would rather have, particularly if I’m playing that game, I would rather just have consistent updates, because there’s still, you know, there’s still enough phase where there’s lots of little quality of life things and I wouldn’t like them to sit on that for six months to wait for a new temple to be done, right? (0:28:01) Jonnie: I would rather just have some of those stuffs built. (0:28:04) Al: Yeah, that’s fair. I mean, I guess you know being an online game. It’s it’s always gonna be slightly different anyway (0:28:11) Jonnie: - Yeah, and I guess to your point though, (0:28:13) Jonnie: I have been kind of ignoring a lot of their small updates because it’s just quality of life, (0:28:18) Jonnie: waiting to see something like this. (0:28:20) Jonnie: And I’m like, oh, okay, now they’ve got a new temple out. (0:28:23) Jonnie: This is the time that I personally want to jump back in (0:28:28) Al: Yeah. Yeah, I don’t think there’s an easy answer to these things. I just think it’s interesting. (0:28:36) Al: They also have climbing updates. I don’t know what that means. It doesn’t really describe (0:28:42) Jonnie: Yeah, I’m… (0:28:44) Al: just an improvement to climbing and traversal in the game. (0:28:49) Jonnie: Climbing was pretty… (0:28:54) Jonnie: I wonder if it’s just making it a little bit easier to understand, ‘cause you can climb up a lot of surfaces, (0:28:59) Jonnie: if I remember rightly. (0:29:01) Jonnie: It felt a little bit janky, but I don’t remember it feeling bad, maybe a bit slow, but it also wasn’t something… (0:29:05) Al: Yeah, I literally no idea what they’re talking about here because they just say we’ll be adding in the first of several changes behind the scenes that ultimately will result in an improvement to climbing. It doesn’t describe what is this. (0:29:20) Jonnie: Yeah, so I would guess that’s probably just more about the way like climbing was a little bit janky when you’re trying to get in and out of this, like just a little bit of like running into walls and stuff like that. (0:29:30) Jonnie: So hopefully it just feels a little bit more seamless. (0:29:32) Jonnie: But to be honest, climbing was one of those things that existed in the game, but you don’t really need it that much from a traversal perspective. (0:29:39) Jonnie: So it’s not like it’s huge, and maybe some of that’s because it felt janky, but I think I think this would just be one of those things that’s like, (0:29:48) Jonnie: if they didn’t say it, you would just be like, (0:29:50) Jonnie: this feels slightly better, but you wouldn’t actually notice when, right? (0:29:54) Al: yeah. And they have also - I just lost my tab - added in some placeable flowers and trees and more decor and outfits. (0:29:55) Jonnie: So, that’s cool. (0:30:12) Jonnie: Cool. (0:30:14) Al: So again, probably something you don’t care about based on our previous conversation. (0:30:14) Jonnie: Um, Hank? (0:30:18) Al: You’re not going to jump in and do a bunch of stuff with that, but good for the people who do care about, making their own. (0:30:26) Jonnie: Yeah, I am curious with the new outfits. So a lot of the outfits early in the game were (0:30:39) Jonnie: microtransactions, right? So you paid a premium currency for them, which to be clear is not a criticism. It was an effective way of monetizing the game, right? You can spend money if you’re really into this and have your character model look a bit different, but it doesn’t actually impact anything else in the game. (0:30:56) Jonnie: So when they say new outfits, I’m curious if they mean a wider range of outfits that you don’t have to pay for, or we’ve put in new things for you to buy. (0:31:05) Al: Yeah, good question. They don’t specify. So I guess we’ll need to see. (0:31:10) Jonnie: Yeah, but I will say I’m very excited for this update, and I might be jumping back into some more palettes soon. (0:31:18) Al: Speaking of updates. This is our last update, I promise. So many updates. Oh my word, everybody’s updating. (0:31:22) Jonnie: Just every transition, just speaking of updates. (0:31:27) Jonnie: Look, we could even use this transition in the main topic. (0:31:31) Al: Travellers Rest have their fishing update out now as well. I do need to clarify something I said wrong in the last episode. I said that… I’m pretty sure I said that fishing is an update to the fishing not the not that the fishing is new turns out that’s wrong fishing is new so there wasn’t fishing before this update now there is fishing before this update so yet another question of what was even in this game and so there we go fishing now in travel (0:32:08) Jonnie: Yeah, look, the “What is this game?” question is mostly just… (0:32:14) Jonnie: Every time I see an update, I’m very confused as to what this game had in it when it launched. (0:32:18) Jonnie: Because from what I can gather, it was nothing. You had a character model, and that was it. (0:32:24) Al: Yeah, because it didn’t have fishing, it didn’t have farming, it didn’t have your bar, which is the whole point of it. It’s an inn, you’re running an inn, and the inn didn’t serve drinks. (0:32:36) Al: So yeah, I really don’t know what the game had, but. Oh, I don’t even. (0:32:38) Jonnie: Maybe just maybe just hit romance [cries] (0:32:46) Al: Sugardew Island, please don’t add romance, I beg of you. I’m going to say this every episode now, please don’t do it. (0:32:54) Al: I know. Yeah, and there’s a trailer for the fishing update. So (0:33:01) Al: go have a look at that. That will be in the show notes. (0:33:05) Al: And the last piece of game news before the last piece of news is very much not news, (0:33:15) Al: but we’re talking about it anyway, because I mean, let’s be honest, especially on an episode with me and you Johnny, we’re going to take any opportunity to talk about this game is that we (0:33:24) Al: have a new, would you call this a trailer? A new, very small, well even it’s a video with sound and it shows, I don’t know, it’s not even, it doesn’t even feel like it’s long enough to count as a teaser. Yeah, it’s an animated picture, that’s what it is, but with a little bit of sound in the background. This is Tales of the Shire. (0:33:28) Jonnie: No. (0:33:42) Jonnie: It’s basically one step removed from just being a picture. (0:33:54) Al: I realised I hadn’t said the name of the game, so Tales of the Shire, which I feel like - so now underneath says “A Lord of the Rings game”. I feel like it didn’t say that in the previous stuff, but I might just not be remembering that. (0:34:06) Jonnie: I do not recall, but hopefully, you know, that’s obvious, but… (0:34:09) Al: It did. It did, because I was just talking nonsense. So yeah. There’s nothing new. They’ve just decided to remind us that the game is coming. And the replies are full of people (0:34:24) Al: give us a game please. So it’s meant to be coming this year. Still literally no information about the game, no screenshots, no nothing. Just it’s coming. (0:34:34) Jonnie: Yep, look, I’m very rapidly getting to the point of like, I will believe this game is coming when we actually, you know, get a release date, like, and, you know, some, some information I just, I just don’t want to become like those Silksong fans right who are like, it’s coming. (0:34:52) Jonnie: It’s coming. Trust me, it’s coming. We’re so excited. It’s coming and like, that game doesn’t exist. (0:34:58) Al: To be fair, I think we have more about this game than we do about Silksong, to be fair. (0:34:58) Jonnie: And that’s, that’s, that is entirely… (0:35:04) Jonnie: I just don’t want to get too excited until until we actually see some details, right, we have something to dig in. So, I mean, it’s good news that they’re posting and, you know, posting a thing because it does mean that the game still exists. (0:35:18) Jonnie: So, yeah, but, but there’s nothing to talk about. (0:35:18) Al: It’s been six months. It’s been six months since they announced the game and this is their first thing since that right six months ago They said hey, this is a game and we went collectively ah (0:35:30) Al: This is a game and now six months later. We’re getting the same information (0:35:36) Al: This is a game with I guess a slightly more detailed image, but it’s still not a screenshot or anything (0:35:44) Jonnie: No. (0:35:46) Jonnie: Definitely not. (0:35:46) Jonnie: Do you want to spend half an hour, like, analyzing every aspect of the image, or show you? (0:35:52) Al: Well, I see people in the comments speculating on characters in the game, (0:36:00) Al: but that would require us knowing the time in which this game is happening. (0:36:06) Jonnie: Yeah, I feel like, you know, pretty much any of this requires like a knowledge of, you know, anything related to this game, and we have none of that, so… (0:36:14) Al: So I do think this game will have fishing, cause I see someone fishing, so sorry about that. (0:36:20) Jonnie: I feel like that is so I am anti-fishing because I just don’t think it’s necessary in a lot of games I (0:36:28) Jonnie: think for a lot of the rings game it would be kind of silly to not have fishing given that like (0:36:35) Jonnie: It’s part of some of their (0:36:38) Jonnie: their law to an extent right like when (0:36:44) Jonnie: Smeagol found the ring they were in a boat, and I’m pretty sure they were fishing Um… (0:36:50) Jonnie: You know, so it’s it’s established that hobbits fish so I think I think (0:36:56) Al: I also see a chicken and a sheep, so presumably you will have ranching in the game. (0:37:03) Al: I also see what is either presumably a duck with a helmet on. (0:37:10) Al: And I’m very interested as to what that is about. (0:37:10) Jonnie: Maybe it just wants to feel… (0:37:13) Al: Why does a duck need armour? (0:37:19) Al: I mean, in the Shire, the safest place ever. (0:37:23) Al: I’m intrigued by that. (0:37:26) Al: There’s a bunch of different foods, cooked foods. (0:37:29) Al: So presumably they will be cooking in this game as well. (0:37:31) Jonnie: Oh my god, sorry, I just looked up there, that duck is super cute. (0:37:36) Jonnie: I’m a big fan of him wearing a helmet, like I don’t know. (0:37:38) Jonnie: I don’t understand what your problem is now. (0:37:39) Jonnie: Why, why are you so anti this? (0:37:42) Al: I’m not, not against the duck. (0:37:45) Al: I see a horse in the background. (0:37:48) Al: Yeah, OK, I’m done. (0:37:51) Al: There’s only so much we can talk about this game. (0:37:54) Al: Let’s overanalyze about something. (0:37:57) Al: Just before we talk about Stardew, we’re going to get there very soon, I promise. (0:38:02) Al: I know that’s why you’re all here this episode. (0:38:05) Al: But before that, we need to talk about the fact that Sakuna of Rice and Run is getting an anime. (0:38:14) Al: And I don’t know what to think about this. (0:38:14) Jonnie: I… I don’t know what any of this means. (0:38:19) Al: So Sakuna of Rice and Run, the game which was the (0:38:23) Al: ridiculously unnecessarily realistic. (0:38:26) Al: Rice growing game where you are, I mean Sakuna is basically like a god, I think, (0:38:35) Al: who was stripped of her powers and sent down to earth. I know, I know, it’s classic. (0:38:40) Al: And then you have to farm rice. I’m not sure why I really, really didn’t play that game very much. I apparently they’re making anime for it, so maybe I will watch that and finally understand the story, rather than having to play the game again. You’ve literally nothing to say. All right, let’s get into trouble talking about something else, which is Stardew Valley 1.6. It’s finally here, it is now out on PC, Mac, Linux, Steam. (0:39:00) Jonnie: Cool I have like I have literally I I know nothing about any of this I have nothing to say and I if I say anything I’m just gonna get myself into trouble (0:39:26) Al: GOG, all of the non-console places you can get it, which I mean is basically just Steam. Okay, yeah, not on console or mobile. Yeah, tablet, etc. I have been playing it on my Steam deck. What have you been playing it on, Johnny? (0:39:35) Jonnie: Also not on. (0:39:54) Jonnie: Ah, just on my laptop. (0:39:56) Al: Fair enough. We will have a link to the patch notes in the show notes if you want to go and have a look at them. There will obviously be spoilers in that. And if you want to play this game without having any information about the game, maybe stop listening to this episode now and come back when you’ve played it. Because we’re going to talk about a lot of things that we found, some things that are very obvious and some things that are maybe not as obvious. (0:40:23) Al: There’s not many, like, story-related things. (0:40:26) Al: But I know a lot of people are finding it fun to kind of go and find all the new stuff without knowing that it’s there. (0:40:36) Al: So if you’re that kind of person, you’re probably already turned off. (0:40:40) Al: So I think we need to start off, Johnny, by talking about the new farm layout. (0:40:46) Al: I obviously chose that. (0:40:46) Jonnie: I did. (0:40:47) Al: I think you chose the new farm layout as well, didn’t you? (0:40:51) Al: So you start out by getting your new farm late. (0:40:56) Al: It’s got a lot of water. (0:41:00) Al: It’s got like a big river that goes through it and a couple of small ponds. (0:41:04) Al: And there’s a lot of grass on it to start with and a lot of trees. (0:41:08) Al: But you also start up with a coop and two chickens. (0:41:11) Al: And (0:41:13) Al: this shouldn’t be surprising, but I was a little bit surprised when you wake up and you open up the package in your house and there aren’t parsnip seeds. (0:41:19) Al: There’s hay there instead. (0:41:21) Al: And it makes sense based on the farm, but I wasn’t expecting that. (0:41:24) Al: It was quite a fun. (0:41:26) Al: difference to be like, oh, this is not the same as what I’ve played before. (0:41:30) Jonnie: Yeah, I really liked it like it was just a nice indication of oh, this is actually different right and it was just one of those really clever little things of like (0:41:41) Jonnie: You know just just change that little brain itch to be like, hey, this is this is subtly (0:41:46) Jonnie: Not quite what you what you’re used to (0:41:50) Al: And your first quest, instead of growing parsnips, is get an egg from your chicken, which, yeah, (0:41:56) Al: is good fun. (0:41:59) Al: I also noticed there’s a lot of hardwood in this farm, and there’s the two different kinds of stumps. (0:42:05) Al: You have both of the two stumps. (0:42:07) Al: So you can get hardwood really quickly because you’ve got the big logs that you can only get with, I think, the golden axe, which, you know, there’s one (0:42:20) Al: of them to get into the other wood, the other forest that you can get the other stumps from. (0:42:27) Al: But the smaller, the stumps, rather than the log, you can get with an iron axe. (0:42:37) Al: But in normal games, you can’t actually access those ones because you have to have the gold one to get into the area that has those stumps. (0:42:45) Al: So it was quite fun. (0:42:46) Al: farm, you’ve got both of those so you can get hardwood as soon (0:42:50) Al: as you’ve got your second level of axe. (0:42:54) Jonnie: Yeah, it’s a nice little upgrade to to the farm and to the progression within a within a new server (0:43:04) Al: So, I think this is quite an animal-focused farm, obviously. There’s still a decent amount of area you can use for farming crops, but I think the idea of this one is you’re generally meant to be using animals, which I quite like because I’ve always been kind of like get animals as quickly as possible because they’re a steady thing. Without having to put much money into them, you can get regular money, right? You can very quickly get like several Programmed a day without… (0:43:34) Al: Putting any money into it (0:43:37) Al: After the initial cast obviously [clears throat] (0:43:40) Jonnie: Yeah, I I really like this as a set up I think a lot of these games I’m like I would I always go in with the intent of like I would like to do a (0:43:51) Jonnie: An animal based farm But by the time you get all of the set up to get the money to get the animals (0:43:57) Jonnie: You have a pretty decent regular farming setup And at that point transitioning to animals feels like it’s gonna waste a lot of well not not waste money (0:44:06) Jonnie: but you’re kind of like (0:44:10) Jonnie: Back in terms of progress a lot so you kind of just keep going with the farming and animals always kind of feel like this thing off to the side And putting them front and center is (0:44:20) Al: Yeah, agreed. I think it’s also, it’s made me more money focused. And this is where I admit on the podcast that I have gone the Joja route this time. So let me explain. Let me explain. Let me explain. Don’t worry. Right. Okay. Well, okay. How about before I explain myself, let me, let me tell you that I feel really bad about what I’ve done, especially (0:44:30) Jonnie: What? (0:44:33) Jonnie: Ow. Ow. (0:44:35) Jonnie: No, no, I’m just gonna sit here and judge you and talk over the start of your sentences. (0:44:50) Al: what, so I’ve, I’ve completed the Joja warehouse version of the community center. Right. I’ve got all of those upgrades. And let me tell you the cut scene where you’ve, when you’ve done that and you walk into the area and you go up to the Joja warehouse and all of the staff are out applauding you and you get told what a wonderful person you are for doing all this, it felt so bad. I was like, Oh no. (0:45:20) Al: What have I done? This is terrible. Um, was not a fan of that. Uh, but the reason why I did this is because I wanted to focus on money as any good capitalist does. And I wanted not to have to think about the bundles for once. And I thought it would be fun. I feel like as a professional. (0:45:50) Al: I’m a farming game podcaster. I need to understand all aspects of this game, and that includes doing the Jojo route. (0:46:00) Al: So that is my defense of myself. (0:46:01) Jonnie: So look this is where I’m gonna say I did not follow the Jojo route and that is so far is my biggest criticism of the 1.6 update is the bundles do not really work for the new farm (0:46:18) Jonnie: because you have the second set of bundles, the crop bundles, and all of a sudden you’re kind of reminded of, oh, I still have to actually engage. (0:46:31) Jonnie: With the farming piece, and look, I think, you know, getting a pass nip, a cauliflower, whatever is fine, but having five of the gold ones for that bundle, it was a huge disappointment that that hadn’t been changed to, uh, like five high quality animal products, right? (0:46:50) Jonnie: Like five gold lard jigs or something like that, um, because I got to like day, you know, 10 or 11 or whatever it was when I started to like, think about the community center. (0:47:01) Jonnie: And I get some of those things unlocked and I was like, oh, well, I’m probably not gonna hit the, the five gold pass nips, you know, this, this month. (0:47:12) Jonnie: And I don’t really want to try the five gold balance and it was a bit disappointing and I kind of wish that. (0:47:18) Al: Yeah, yeah, it’s interesting. I wonder, have you ever looked at the remixed bundles (0:47:28) Al: for the community centre? Because I know there is an option to do the remixed ones, but I don’t know. (0:47:34) Al: Ah, no, you’re still required. The quality crops bundle still exists. But it looks like there’s multiple different possible ones you can have, but you still have to have some gold crops. (0:47:47) Al: So, yeah. (0:47:48) Al: Yeah, I think it could be could have been fun to have done stuff like that. (0:47:53) Al: But this is where you have the option just to go the Georgia route. (0:47:56) Al: You can do it. (0:47:57) Al: It’s a thing you can do, you know. (0:48:00) Jonnie: Yeah, look, I think it’s the right thing to do. (0:48:01) Al: And you’re. (0:48:08) Al: Yes, I agree. (0:48:11) Al: It’s a good thing to do. (0:48:12) Al: Go the Georgia route. (0:48:14) Al: You definitely won’t feel bad and you definitely won’t have your friends saying, (0:48:17) Al: What have you done when the achievement comes? (0:48:19) Al: Which happened to me today? (0:48:24) Al: Kelly noticed that I got the achievement yesterday, and they were very disappointed in me. (0:48:32) Al: show. (0:48:34) Jonnie: I mean, look, they were right to be disappointed, but what’s the point in friends if you don’t have money? (0:48:40) Al: Exactly, exactly. So I think it’s been quite fun doing that, it makes you think about the game differently. (0:48:50) Al: And I do think that if you’re playing your first stardew through, the bundles is a really good way to be like, (0:48:58) Al: here are all the different things you can do in the game, do them all please. I think that’s really fun. (0:49:04) Al: But also as someone who’s played this game, hundreds and hundreds of hours, just going. (0:49:10) Al: I’m going to do as much as I can to make as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, and unlock as much of it as possible. (0:49:18) Al: I’m currently in winter of year one, I’ve not even finished the first year yet, and I have completed all of that. (0:49:26) Al: All five of the things to unlock with the community centre of Georgia, which is fun. (0:49:36) Al: like being at that point. It’s really hard to do that in… (0:49:40) Al: In fact, it’s impossible in year one unless you have the setting to make it possible in year one. (0:49:45) Al: So you have to wait till the second year. (0:49:48) Al: And even if you do have that setting on, it’s still really hard because you have to go really hard on the crops. (0:49:54) Al: Gold crops aren’t very easy to get. (0:49:59) Al: So yeah, that’s fun. It’ll be interesting to see. I know that the… (0:50:03) Al: I know that Ginger Island has some Georgia stuff in it as well if you go that route. (0:50:07) Al: it will be interesting to see that, although I’ve still never been to Georgia Island. (0:50:10) Al: I’m currently grinding to get the bars to unlock the boat to get to Georgia, to get to Ginger Island. (0:50:24) Al: As usual, I’ve hit my wall is I’m at Skull Cavern and trying to get as much of the ore as possible to actually get what I want. (0:50:34) Al: That’s always my frustration with this game, is I love everything about this game. (0:50:37) Al: I hate skull cavern. (0:50:38) Al: I hate trying to get. (0:50:41) Al: Why have I forgotten the name of this? (0:50:43) Al: What’s it called again? (0:50:44) Al: The purple stuff. (0:50:45) Al: Iridium. (0:50:45) Al: Yeah. (0:50:46) Al: I, I hate getting Iridium. (0:50:48) Al: It is the thing I, I just cannot stand with this game. (0:50:52) Al: So maybe I’ll just try and focus on doing year two as quickly as possible while getting enough to, to pass granddad’s test and then get the, the (0:51:14) Jonnie: Yeah, that sounds like a good plan, and I’m right there with you. I’m not a fan of Skull Kid, and I think the combat’s just not good enough in a game like this to really support what they’re trying to do. (0:51:27) Al: Yeah I think at this point you just you have to just save up as much stone as you can to get (0:51:35) Al: stairs to go down as quickly as you can find as much ore. Yeah it’s not the best and especially having played Coral Island like Coral Island I feel like has the balance better in terms of the minds and getting to know them. (0:51:57) Al: I’m getting the max of the, I can’t remember what they call their, they have another name for their above gold one, something like that. (0:52:08) Jonnie: Uhm, Oricallium. (0:52:12) Jonnie: Uhm, yeah, because I just recently completed the, uh, the mines in, uhm, in Coral Island and I think that was just significantly better, the accessibility of the, the fourth tier, uhm, or was, it was just way more plentiful, right? (0:52:28) Jonnie: And it was just like, cool, this is nice, like it’s just the next version of it, it’s the next level of progression and it doesn’t feel horrendous, like, yeah. (0:52:36) Al: Yeah and it doesn’t need to be easy, I think it just needs to be not horrifically difficult and (0:52:43) Al: certainly nothing in this update has made it any easier and I think it’s the thing that frustrates me most about this game that I would really like slightly changed. Obviously there is the thing you can get from your grandad when you’ve got a certain amount of stuff after year two but (0:52:59) Al: that only gives you a few per day which is obviously better than nothing but yeah it’s It’s just, it’s so slow to get. (0:53:06) Al: And to get to Ginger Island, you need 5 bars, which is 25 iridium ore. (0:53:12) Al: And obviously that then implies you haven’t used it for anything else. (0:53:16) Al: And you need, yeah, ugh, iridium. (0:53:20) Al: Need iridium. (0:53:22) Al: So, we’ll see. (0:53:26) Al: Um, okay, farm, anything else to say about the new farm? (0:53:30) Al: I think, oh yes, I had one small thing. (0:53:32) Al: very niche, but the layout of it is much easier. (0:53:36) Al: To line things up for paths and crops. (0:53:38) Al: One thing that really frustrates me about the, about Stardew is how (0:53:44) Al: things don’t overlap in the way that they should, right? (0:53:47) Al: So for example, in the greenhouse, it’s not a perfect number of (0:53:52) Al: the biggest sprinkler, right? (0:53:56) Al: It’s like 2.5 sprinklers wide and tall. (0:54:01) Al: And that, and the farm, if you have a path (0:54:06) Al: going from the entrance to the farm left, you’ll not line up nicely with things. (0:54:12) Al: And if you want to come down from the top to the bottom, (0:54:16) Al: you can’t just have one path that goes all the way down from the entrance. (0:54:20) Al: Like these things are really niche and probably don’t annoy many people, (0:54:24) Al: but they annoys me and I find the layout of this one is much easier to make it (0:54:30) Jonnie: I agree. I really like the layo

 25 September 2023 - 6PM EST - This evening, David and Apollo are joined by Ted Macie. Ted is a DMED Whistleblower who discusses his military experience during the height of the COVID pandemic, and how the COVID-19 vaccines were mandated and shortly after caused severe health problems. They also discuss how we must stop the election fraud, and get leaders who will fight alongside the people to prevent these type of mandates from happening again.  Follow us on Social Media: https://libertylinks.io/ConservativeDaily https://libertylinks.io/JoeOltmann https://libertylinks.io/Apollo Tell Congress WE DO NOT COMPLY! Send this message today! https://conservative-daily.com/coronavirus/we-wont-comply-the-new-covid-vaccines-are-at-our-doorstep-the-american-people-do-not-consent_0

Hannah finally reveals the celeb who DMed her. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Selene wakes up in a strange world and is told some horrible news - she is dead. Join us on this fun bonus episode through the afterlife DMed by Pat Edwards. We also welcome Katie and Ben from Amateurish Productions.Interested in finding out more about The Black Ballad? Well, click this link to find out more info and to be alerted when their project is live on Backer Kit. Be sure to spread the Geekly love and thank the folks who guested this week.Our Kickstarter is running from January 31st through February 21st! (2023) geeklyinc.com/kickstarter The adventure continues with Screech Echo (Mike Bachmann), Selene Von Esper (Jennifer Cheek), R'Oarc (Nika Howard), T'Chuck (Tim Lanning), and our Dungeon Master Michael DiMauro. Don't forget to follow our editor David Stewart! Podcast art by https://www.instagram.com/artisticflair2004/! Want the world to see your fan art? Tweet it with #DrunksAndDoodles.Find more info by clicking right here - https://linktr.ee/GAPCast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.