Podcasts about all things private practice

Ever wonder what the difference is between therapy and coaching? And if you are a therapist who wants to expand your services with coaching, do you have any clue what to do, where to start, and how to protect yourself legally?In this flashback episode, I talk with Carly Hill, LCSW and business coach for therapists who want to add coaching to their businesses. We discuss an important topic for therapists looking to add coaching to their practice: How to do it ethically and protect yourself, your business, and your clients.Here are three key takeaways from the episode:Don't just slap coaching onto your private practice: It's crucial to separate your therapy and coaching services into distinct business entities. This not only avoids ethical dilemmas but also ensures that you comply with licensing regulations and accounting practices.Understand the difference between therapy and coaching: While some definitions focus on past vs. future-oriented approaches, the simpler distinction lies in medical necessity. Therapy addresses clinical and mental health issues, while coaching tackles situational and nonclinical problems.Coaching certification is not required, but competence is essential: As a therapist, you already possess a wealth of clinical knowledge and experience. It's up to you to determine if you feel confident delivering coaching services in a specific area. While certification can boost confidence, it's not a prerequisite for calling yourself a coach.Listen to the full episode to learn more about the ethical considerations of incorporating coaching into your private practice. And remember, protecting your license and serving your clients with integrity should always be top priorities.More about Carly:Carly Hill is an LCSW and business strategist for clinicians. She specializes in helping overworked and underpaid female clinicians make more money and more impact by teaching them to build the online coaching business of their dreams.She helps clinicians break free from the 1:1 model to leverage their time, get paid for their knowledge, and live a life of true freedom. She helps clinicians to find their coaching niche, develop their high-ticket offer, and organically call in their ideal clients easily and effortlessly using her unique modern marketing masterplan.Carly's Website: carlyhillcoaching.comCarly's Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/carlyhillcoaching–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is an episode that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, we're not just talking the talk; we're taking a deep dive into personal struggles both therapists and clients face, challenging the stigma around seeking mental health care and embracing our vulnerabilities.I talk with Sandtrice Russell as she opens up about the need for safe spaces and advocacy, particularly for the BIPOC & LGBTQIA+ communities.3 key themes:Vulnerability as a Bridge: Therapists' self-disclosure and openness about personal struggles can build rapport and trust, making it easier for clients to open up and be vulnerable in turn.Authenticity in Practice: Showcasing your true values and creating an accepting space for clients of all backgrounds, including LGBTQIA2+, Neurodivergent, and BIPOC individuals, is not just good practice—it's essential for safety and relatability.The Human Connection: Therapy is more than a checklist; it's about actual authentic human connection and openness to change. We must prioritize the rapport and right fit in the therapist-client relationship.Note from Sandtrice:I've been in the helping profession since 2004. I've been working in my respective field for over 18 years. I graduated with my Bachelor of Science Degree in Psychology from the University of West Georgia in 2004 and later obtained my Master of Science Degree in Clinical Mental Health from Troy State University in 2012. I'm currently a Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified Professional Counselor Supervisor in the State of Georgia. Throughout my career, I've worked with individuals across various populations providing mental health counseling, career counseling, mentorship, and life coaching services. I have worked in a variety of settings including residential group homes, outpatient mental health, inpatient mental health, and community-based counseling. I specialize in working with clients coping with depression, anxiety, relationship issues, anger management, trauma, and individuals of the LGBT community who are seeking a safe space. I also have experience working with Veterans and Active Duty Serviceman. In addition to my role as a Licensed Mental Health professional, I'm a Motivational Speaker and Mental Health Advocate who shares mental health advice on my YouTube Channel and all Social Media Platforms under the handle Tree the LPC. I'm extremely passionate about helping and empowering others to prosper. My mission statement for my organizations Unique Destiny Inc & Unique Destiny Counseling is Empowerment through Education.Check out the Self Aware and Fucked Up Podcast: podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/treethelpcMore resources by Sandtrice: linktr.ee/UniqueDestinyInc–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is an episode that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, I talk with Dr. Angela Koivula, psychologist and adjunct instructor at the University of Florida, about the complexities of navigating financial realities in the mental health profession and its impact on career decisions.Key Takeaways:Financial Planning & Sustainability: Many therapists face significant challenges in planning for retirement due to a lack of resources and knowledge about financial management in the mental health field. The constant need for marketing and client acquisition adds to the financial pressure, making self-care days seem like a luxury.Private Practice Realities vs. Perceptions: The perceived glamour in private practice marketing often hides the tough realities. Many professionals feel conflicted between their values and the demands of running a successful practice. Angela shares her journey of shifting focus during the pandemic, finding lucrative contract work, and educating herself on financial independence to secure a more stable career path.Systemic Issues & Solutions: The mental health profession is fraught with systemic issues like high student debt and low entry-level wages, making the field unsustainable for many. Angela argues for the need to re-evaluate career paths, customize work schedules for better work-life balance, and prioritize debt reduction for true financial freedom.More about Angela:Dr. Angela Koivula, Ph.D. (she/they) is a Licensed Psychologist with over 15 years experience in the field of mental health serving individuals, couples, and groups as well as active and retired military personnel and wellness industries. She has also served as an adjunct instructor at the University of Florida. She is a Black and Queer individual on a journey to be her most authentic self in everything she does. Her roots originate in Kansas City, MO, and is a lifelong, die-hard Kansas City Chiefs fan!Website: Inclusivewellnessproject.com–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is an episode that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, Patrick Casale talks with Dr. Omolara Uwemedimo, co-founder of Strong Children Wellness and founder of Melanin in Medicine. They discuss empowering BIPOC clinicians, promoting health equity, and developing sustainable practices.Key Takeaways:Diversify Revenue Streams: Strong Children Wellness thrives by diversifying income sources, collaborating with nonprofit partners, and securing grants. This strategy ensures steady growth and sustainability.Creative Expertise Utilization: Clinicians can leverage their skills beyond direct health services by offering trainings, educational programs, and strategic advisory services, especially via contracts with nonprofits.Strategic Partnerships: Building relationships with nonprofits and community organizations can enhance impact and secure funding opportunities, leading to more comprehensive care for under-resourced populations.Whether you're an established clinician or just starting out, Omolara's journey from pediatrics to pioneering a 7-figure group practice offers profound insights for anyone in the private practice field.About OmolaraPrompted by a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis in 2019, Dr. Omolara transitioned from her career as a professor, researcher & pediatrician to co-founder of Strong Children Wellness — a multi-practice healthcare network that partners with communities to provide tech-enabled physical health, mental health, and social care for Medicaid-eligible & uninsured children and families, including those impacted by poverty, trauma, and immigration inequities. As a social entrepreneur, she has secured over $1,000,000 in funding in less than 2 years, without loans or investors. This prompted her to create Melanin & Medicine, a healthcare consulting firm that supports mission-driven healthcare organizations serving communities of color to secure grants, contracts, & alternative payments to help them scale and make greater impact. Dr. Uwemedimo is a noted speaker on social entrepreneurship, funding strategies in healthcare, community-based healthcare for under-resourced communities, and clinical & advocacy approaches to supporting anti-poverty health policies, including access to safety net programs, such as Medicaid, SNAP, & TANF. She has been an invited speaker for several conferences & organizations including American Academy of Pediatrics, American Women's Medical Association, Health Tech 4 Medicaid, Center for Law and Social Policy, Immigration Advocates Network, United Hospital Fund, & Greater NY Hospital Association.Website: melaninandmedicine.coLinktree: linktr.ee/dr.omolara–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the last of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, I talk with Daniel Rowe, a CPA and tax attorney from Charlotte, North Carolina, as he shares invaluable insights into financial planning, bookkeeping, and business formation for mental health professionals and other service providers.Key takeaways:Understanding Business Formation: Daniel emphasizes the importance of having tailored advice for forming your business entity, whether it's a PLLC or an S Corp, and why understanding these structures is crucial to your financial health.Bookkeeping Simplified: Daniel discusses the importance of professional bookkeeping and the benefits of integrating tools like QuickBooks and Xero to streamline your financial processes.Proactive Financial Planning: Don't wait until tax season to address your finances. With the right CPA who understands your industry, you can set yourself up for success year-round.If you're a business owner in the mental health or medical field looking for neurodivergent-affirming financial advice, this episode is a must-listen!More about Daniel:Daniel is a CPA and tax attorney who works with people and businesses in the creative and professional services fields. His firm advises large and small businesses that operate in the space of making people feel good, moved - something. This includes a focus on therapists, doctors, coaches, and others who sell their time and their expertise to help improve their clients' lives.Daniel has over 20 years of tax advisory and compliance experience at firms of varying sizes. Prior to forming D.Rowe Tax, he was a tax partner in a Los Angeles-based public accounting firm and legal of-counsel to a Chicago-based law firm. He has authored numerous tax articles and presented tax seminars to thousands of CPAs and tax professionals around the country. Daniel has also taught masters-level tax courses at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles and the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. His passion for teaching and learning is what sets him apart and allows him to communicate with clients in a way that makes tax law both understandable and manageable.D.Rowe Tax's mission is to make the complicated tax code and legalese more approachable and less stressful, allowing clients to focus on their business of doing meaningful work.Website (updated): droweco.comLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drowetax–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 9th of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, Dr. Jessica Hogan and I delve into the world of neurodivergent affirming assessments and the necessity for accessible, empathetic support for neurodivergent individuals.Key takeaways:The Paradigm Shift in Neurodivergence Awareness: Dr. Hogan emphasizes the importance of ongoing work for neurotypical clinicians to be affirming, addressing internalized ableism, and fostering a paradigm shift in understanding and accommodating neurodivergent individuals.Challenges and Visibility in the Workplace: We discuss the increasing visibility of neurodivergent and autistic clinicians and the hurdles they face in disclosing their neurodivergence. Authenticity, cultural competence, and collaboration are crucial for effective assessments and building trust with clients.Empowering Self-Diagnosis and Community Inclusion: Social media platforms are revolutionizing the way individuals relate to their neurodivergence, promoting self-discovery, and encouraging self-diagnosis. Dr. Hogan advocates for joining the neurodivergent community and seeking validation, without always requiring formal assessments.Listen to better understand creating accessible, affirming, and life-changing assessments for neurodivergent individuals.More about Jessica:Dr. Hogan (or Jess, whatever) is an auDHD licensed clinical psychologist in Minnesota and California, where she owns her own practice. She oversees a neuroaffirming assessment training program for doctoral students and postdoctoral fellows. With over 15 years of experience working with autistic individuals, she has been conducting autism and ADHD assessments for over a decade. Additionally, Dr. Hogan teaches psychodiagnostic assessment in a clinical PsyD program and serves as the principal investigator on a research project examining the experiences of autistic therapists. Her special interests include neurodiversity-affirming care, true crime, reading, and circus arts.Website: neuronandrosepsychology.comSocial Media: @neuronandrosepsych–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 8th of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, Maureen Werrbach, the owner and founder of The Group Practice Exchange, and I discuss how being autistic and ADHD shapes our leadership styles, the challenges and unique strengths that come with being neurodivergent entrepreneurs, and the ripple effect of being authentic, from creating safe work environments to fostering creativity among teams.Key Takeaways:Understanding Neurodivergent Traits: Embrace the unique strengths and challenges that come with being neurodivergent and how it shapes leadership and entrepreneurship.Creating Inclusive Work Environments: Learn how openly sharing neurodivergent traits can lead to more accommodating and supportive workplaces that boost overall team success.Authenticity in Business: Realize the power of showing up authentically in your professional life, and how it can create a positive impact on both your business and audience.More about Maureen:Maureen developed her coaching program, The Group Practice Exchange, based not only on her own experience with starting her private practice but also growing it into a successful group practice.She spent countless hours researching how to start a private practice (the legal and procedural steps) and then many more hours learning how to grow it into a group (again trying to figure out the appropriate steps). Through trial and error, she learned what works and what doesn't in running a counseling group practice.Maureen thoroughly enjoy helping clinicians become confident and organized group practice business owners.Website: thegrouppracticeexchange.com–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 7th of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

As therapists and practitioners, we're always seeking innovative ways to foster healing and support growth in our clients.In this flashback episode, I had the privilege of speaking with Marjorie Jean, a trailblazing therapist who is reshaping the approach to mental health care by harnessing the power of community.Key Takeaways:Community-Centric Healing: Discover how to integrate community and family dynamics into therapy, advocating for a collective approach to healing over traditional individual-focused modalities.Cultural Competence: Learn how therapists can become trauma-informed and inclusive in a real and impactful way instead of just performative, as well as the significance of cultural and collective esteem in therapeutic practice.Navigating Anxiety: Hear a refreshing perspective on embracing anxiety, reframing it as a manageable aspect rather than something to eliminate, and how community support plays a crucial role in mental well-being.Join us as we delve into a conversation on the transformative potential of group healing and cultural awareness in therapy.Note From Marjorie:My name is Marjorie and I am a passionate advocate for culturally conscious mental health education. I am a certified Mental Health First Aid instructor, a social entrepreneur, producer of joy, a Haiti optimist, mom and pet owner, and a systems therapist with a focus on somatic stress recovery. My area of expertise is attachment and intergenerational trauma, migration trauma, burnout, work-life vitality, and esteem. I also offer vitality consulting and coaching tailored to support organizations committed to an employee experience where people are seen and heard in affirming ways.Marjorie's Website: ramcircle.com/workwithmeMarjorie's workbook called ESTEEM: ramcircle.com/ebook–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 6th of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

This flashback episode features an inspiring and deeply personal conversation with the remarkable Dominique Pritchett.Dominique shares her powerful experiences and insights on the impact of racial targeting, the importance of diversity and inclusion, and her journey as a motivational speaker and consultant.Key Takeaways:Diversity & Inclusion: Understand the need for intentional observation and building relationships to address diversity issues effectively. Understanding the emotional impact is crucial for creating inclusive environments.Leverage Your Skills: Mental health professionals have unique skill sets that are invaluable in the speaking and consulting arena. See how transitioning these skills can make a significant impact across various industries.Overcome Challenges: Both Dominique and Patrick discuss the importance of having systems in place for handling speaking engagements efficiently and the need for mental health professionals to overcome the fear of sounding "salesy."More about Dominique:Born to challenge the status quo, Dr. Dominique Pritchett is a mental wellness strategist, speaker, therapist and podcaster.She is the owner of Beloved Wellness Center™ as well as the founder and podcast host of Space for Sistas® centering the experiences of Black women and girls.As a strategist and international speaker, Dr. Dominique partners with organizations to prioritize mental wellness solutions to evolve personal and professional development through emotional intelligence.She holds a doctorate in clinical psychology, a master's in clinical social work and a bachelor's in social work.Dr. Dominique has been featured on BBC London Radio, Shondaland, Women's Health Magazine, The New York Times, various news outlets, podcasts, and more.Website: dominiquepritchett.comAll Social Media: @dominiquepritchett–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 5th of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

Are you a group practice owner feeling overwhelmed and considering an exit plan? Dive into our latest episode where Gabrielle Juliano-Villani talks about the emotional roller coaster of selling her practice.This episode isn't just about the when and the how of selling a group practice—it's also a tale of personal evolution, burnout prevention, and understanding that your business is an asset.Key Themes:Considering Selling Due to Burnout: Many private practice owners may be feeling overwhelmed by the responsibilities and stress associated with running their practice, which can lead to burnout. This episode directly addresses the emotional journey and practical considerations of selling a group practice, as Gabrielle Juliano-Villani shares her personal experience of deciding to sell due to burnout, providing guidance and reassurance to listeners who may be contemplating a similar decision.Fear of Financial and Legal Complexities: The prospect of selling a practice introduces a range of financial and legal challenges, and many practitioners may feel ill-equipped to navigate these waters. This episode alleviates these concerns by discussing the importance of having financial documentation in order, considering capital gains taxes, and understanding the value of proper bookkeeping. Patrick and Gabrielle underscore the significance of being strategic and well-informed before proceeding with a sale.Uncertainty About Future Career Path and Income Streams: Therapists often find themselves locked into the mindset of traditional one-on-one therapy sessions as their sole source of revenue and may struggle to envision alternative career paths or income streams. The discussion between Patrick and Gabrielle illuminates the vast potential of leveraging therapists' transferable skills in different ways. Try to explore diverse revenue streams, which can help prevent staying in unfulfilling situations and prepare for eventual transitions out of private practice.More about Gabrielle:Gabrielle Juliano-Villani is a licensed clinical social worker, consultant, coach, entrepreneur, and educator based in Sarasota, FL. She has been in the mental health field for over a decade specializing in stress, chronic health conditions, and trauma.After realizing her own burnout in 2021, she sold her thriving group practice and made it her mission to educate others on the impact stress has on our everyday lives. Gabrielle pulls from her experience as an EMDR and Polyvagal Informed therapist to utilize mind/body approaches to help others implement everyday strategies to manage stress and live their best lives.Gabrielle is an international speaker, retreat leader, and has been featured in Authority Magazine, The Daily Om, Bustle, and the Everyday Woman TV Network. When she's not working, Gabrielle is teaching Zumba, surfing, or reading a psychological thriller at the beach.Gabrielle's Website: gabriellejulianovillani.com–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 3rd of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this flashback episode, I talk with Jacqueline Garcia of Therapy Lux. Jacqueline opens up about her personal journey as a therapist in private practice, navigating social media, and the importance of authenticity and self-discovery.Jackie shares some of her struggles in her personal and professional life, specifically about immigrating from Mexico to the United States at 12 years old, and how she has fully embraced her Latina heritage.Here are 3 key takeaways from this episode:Embrace your authenticity on social media: Jacqueline shares her experience of showing up authentically on social media as a therapist and how it made a significant difference in connecting with clients and building a supportive community. Highlighting your personality and being true to yourself can have a powerful impact on your practice.Find grace in the private practice journey: Starting a private practice can be a scary transition, filled with ups and downs. Jacqueline advises giving yourself grace and space to feel your emotions throughout this process. Remember, everyone's journey is different, and it's important to acknowledge and honor your own path. Jacqueline brings attention to the discrimination faced by individuals who do not speak a language perfectly. She emphasizes that this discrimination is often masked by expectations of perfection, while many people in our country only speak one language and make little effort to learn another. As therapists, we have a unique opportunity to challenge these biases and advocate for inclusivity and understanding.Use slower periods for self-reflection and growth: When facing slower periods in your practice, rather than panicking or doubting your success, embrace the opportunity for self-reflection and evaluation. Take this time to assess your niche, offerings, and personal alignment. Remember, slower periods can be a valuable chance for growth and perspective shift.Note from Jackie: My name is Jacqueline Garcia, and I am a bilingual, Spanish-speaking Licensed Clinical Social Worker with over 7 years of experience working with children, teens, adults, and families. I received my Bachelor of Arts in Sociology from California State of San Bernardino. After completing my B.A., I attended California State University of Fullerton where I earned my Master's Degree in Social Work. My clinical experiences range from mental health outpatient programs, non-profit organizations, field-based community mental health, and private practice. I grew up in Tijuana, Baja California until I was 12 years old. My parents migrated to the U.S. to pursue a better life for me and my siblings. As many of you know, middle school years can be difficult, to say the least. As a teen, I struggled adjusting to a new culture, new language, new friends, new trends, you name it! However, these transformative years made an impact in my life and led me to the path of becoming a therapist.Jackie's Website: Therapylux.orgJackie's Instagram: instagram.com/therapylux–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 2nd of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

Ever heard someone say they just "don't do therapy?"Even though the profession has gained a better reputation and become more inclusive, there are still many communities that are unrepresented and can have a harder time opening up to someone who probably "isn't going to get it."That's where finding your niche and ways to connect with and serve that community plays a huge role in how you show up as a therapist, whether that's by having your clients do boxing in session or just normalizing the shit that others can't handle.If you are curious about what creative representation can look like and how to tailor therapy to clients, as well as the struggles that the therapist may face when making custom therapy available to clients, this episode is for you.In this episode, I talk with Blaise Harris, therapist, private practice owner, author, and host of the "Dope Black Therapist" podcast, about why he went into private practice, what struggles he faced, and how his experience as a black man and retired firefighter impacts the way he does therapy and shows up for his clients.Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:Understand the impact of unaddressed personal issues in professions that demand "leaving it at the door."Learn how to use creativity to customize and create safe spaces to talk openly, support one another, and break the stigma surrounding mental health.Hear Blaise's personal story of going from firefighter to therapist and how he shows up for his clients in unique ways while still maintaining self-care."Therapy that works" will look different for everyone, and stepping up to create that custom therapeutic environment to match each person's needs can result in criticism and pushback when breaking the norm and challenging the stereotypical therapist image. Despite what grad school teaches, there are many ways to be an ethical and effective therapist who caters to the unique healing processes of clients.More about Blaise:Blaise Harris is a licensed mental health counselor and former firefighter with over 14 years of service as a first responder and is the founder and owner of G Squared Consulting and Counseling Services. Blaise has a passion for helping others and hopes to end the stigma surrounding mental health amongst first responders and in the community. Blaise hosts a biweekly podcast called, The Dope Black Therapist, where he shares practices, tools, and coping mechanisms, as well as addresses issues regarding mental health.Blaise's Website: thedopeblacktherapist.com–––––––––––––––––––––***This episode is the 1st of 10 episodes that All Things Private Practice is re-releasing for 2025. Please enjoy, and we'll be back with new content, resources, and guests in a couple of months. –––––––––––––––––––––

In this episode, Erez Druk, co-founder of Freed.ai, and I explore the transformative world of AI in clinical documentation and how Freed.ai's technology is redefining the administrative landscape for healthcare professionals. Here are three key takeaways: Reducing Administrative Burden with Freed.ai: Learn how Freed.ai's HIPAA-compliant AI tool significantly reduces time spent on notes and documentation, freeing clinicians to focus more on the well-being of themselves and their clients. Enhancing Mental Health Practice: Discover how AI is being tailored to fit the unique needs of mental health professionals, providing accurate and detailed session notes, thus improving the quality of care and ensuring that clinicians can direct their energy toward patient interaction. Combating Burnout: Understand how the integration of AI in mental health practices is playing a crucial role in combating clinician burnout by reducing the stress associated with administrative tasks, ultimately leading to better work-life balance and increased job satisfaction. About Erez: Erez studied mathematics and computer science, then moved to California to work as a software engineer at Facebook. His first startup was called UrbanLeap, and now, he is focused on his second startup, Freed, where he supports mental health clinicians do note-taking using AI. Visit Freed's Website and use code PRIVATE50 for $50 off your first month: getfreed.ai X: twitter.com/ErezDruk LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drukerez –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

In this episode, Melissa Wesner, LCPC, founder of LifeSpring Counseling Services and host of the "Dreaming and Doing" podcast, and I dive into the transformative power of retreats, cultural immersion, and self-care in business strategy. We discuss how stepping out of comfort zones, embracing new cultures, and integrating well-being into our professional lives can create lasting, positive change. Key Takeaways: The Power of Relationships: Retreats and workshops go beyond just delivering content. The deep connections and lifelong friendships built in these events are transformative and impactful. Cultural Immersion for Real Insights: Experiencing different cultures first-hand, rather than just learning theoretically, is crucial for developing true cultural competence. Integrating Self-Care and Business: Prioritizing well-being can significantly enhance business performance. We emphasize the importance of self-care as an integral part of a successful business strategy. About Melissa: Melissa Wesner is the Founder of LifeSpring Counseling Services, a group practice in Baltimore County, Maryland. She is the Dreaming & Doing Podcast host, international retreat host, and planner of fun for her office and the local Clinician Community Membership that she runs. She is also a Brainspotting Consultant. Website: lifespringcounseling.net Podcast Facebook: facebook.com/dreaminganddoingpodcast Instagram: @melissa_wesner_ Facebook: @lifespringcounselingservices –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Welcome solo and group practice owners! We are Liath Dalton and Evan Dumas, your co-hosts of Group Practice Tech. In our latest episode, we're joined by Patrick Casale from All Things Private Practice to talk about how to create a neuro-affirming therapy practice.   We discuss: Understanding your own neurotype as a leader Considerations for developing a neuro-affirming workplace Creating an environment where staff can ask for the accommodations they need Resources for practice owners to improve accessibility  Therapist directories that prioritize accessibility and identity Soliciting feedback from staff    Listen here: https://personcenteredtech.com/group/podcast/ For more, visit our website. Resources Join Liath and Patrick for the 2025 Leadership Retreat for group practice owners and leaders in Chania, Greece! About Patrick Neurodivergent Entrepreneur Coaching with Patrick Divergent Conversations podcast with Patrick and Dr. Megan Neff Empowered Escapes upcoming retreats and summits Doubt Yourself, Do It Anyway Virtual Online Summit All Things Private Practice --> Helping Mental Health & Neurodivergent Business Owners Doubt Themselves & Do It Anyway All Things Private Practice Podcast

In this episode, I speak with Flint Del Sol, a veteran transgender teacher, educational content creator, and LGBTQ advocate, Xilo Del Sol, a Mexican American queer and neurodivergent coach, social worker, and educator, about navigating systemic ableism and capitalism in creating a more fitting work environment and the intersections of entrepreneurship, neurodiversity, and the LGBTQ community. Key Takeaways: Transitioning to Authenticity: Flint and Xilo share their journey from traditional roles in education and mental health to creating their own businesses tailored for queer and neurodivergent communities. They discuss the immense courage required to leave “secure” jobs and the importance of building work environments that honor personal authenticity and value alignment. Challenges and Resilience in Entrepreneurship: The episode dives deep into the unique obstacles faced by neurodivergent and trans individuals in entrepreneurship. From online criticism to navigating systemic barriers, Flint and Xilo emphasize the need for resilience and support systems to overcome these challenges and thrive in their careers. The Power of Authentic Content: Flint highlights how authenticity in content creation pays off, with genuine and spontaneous expressions resonating most with their audience. The importance of remaining true to one's values, even when facing pressure to conform to mainstream or sponsored content, is echoed throughout the conversation. Visit atppod.com/157 to view Flint and Xilo's complete bios. Find them online: @justflintisfine (TikTok and Instagram) and @xilodelsol (Instagram) Website: www.delsolcoaching.com –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Welcome solo and group practice owners! We are Liath Dalton and Evan Dumas, your co-hosts of Group Practice Tech. In our latest episode, we're joined by Patrick Casale from All Things Private Practice to talk about leadership and authenticity.  We discuss: What “doubt yourself, do it anyway” means The fear and power of vulnerability  Patrick's retreats and summits for mental health professionals Expanding beyond private practice Using fear as a gas pedal, not a brake Next year's retreat for leaders in Greece, hosted by Patrick, where Liath is speaking Listen here: https://personcenteredtech.com/group/podcast/ For more, visit our website. Resources Join Liath and Patrick for the 2025 Leadership Retreat for group practice owners and leaders in Chania, Greece! About Patrick Empowered Escapes upcoming retreats and summits Doubt Yourself, Do It Anyway Virtual Online Summit All Things Private Practice --> Helping Mental Health & Neurodivergent Business Owners Doubt Themselves & Do It Anyway All Things Private Practice Podcast Check out Liath's guest episode on the podcast: Episode 92: Optimize & Fortify Your Private Practice Using HIPAA [featuring Liath Dalton]

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Angela Koivula, psychologist and adjunct instructor at the University of Florida, about the complexities of navigating financial realities in the mental health profession and its impact on career decisions. Key Takeaways: Financial Planning & Sustainability: Many therapists face significant challenges in planning for retirement due to a lack of resources and knowledge about financial management in the mental health field. The constant need for marketing and client acquisition adds to the financial pressure, making self-care days seem like a luxury. Private Practice Realities vs. Perceptions: The perceived glamour in private practice marketing often hides the tough realities. Many professionals feel conflicted between their values and the demands of running a successful practice. Angela shares her journey of shifting focus during the pandemic, finding lucrative contract work, and educating herself on financial independence to secure a more stable career path. Systemic Issues & Solutions: The mental health profession is fraught with systemic issues like high student debt and low entry-level wages, making the field unsustainable for many. Angela argues for the need to re-evaluate career paths, customize work schedules for better work-life balance, and prioritize debt reduction for true financial freedom. More about Angela: Dr. Angela Koivula, Ph.D. (she/they) is a Licensed Psychologist with over 15 years experience in the field of mental health serving individuals, couples, and groups as well as active and retired military personnel and wellness industries. She has also served as an adjunct instructor at the University of Florida. She is a Black and Queer individual on a journey to be her most authentic self in everything she does. Her roots originate in Kansas City, MO, and is a lifelong, die-hard Kansas City Chiefs fan! Website: Inclusivewellnessproject.com –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

In this episode, I spoke with Dr. Liz Slonena, an ADHD psychologist and business consultant, about the challenges and strategies of managing a solo business while grappling with chronic health conditions. Key Takeaways: Health comes first: Listening to our bodies and setting boundaries is essential for sustainable professional and personal success. Redefine Rest: Personalized rest practices can be more beneficial than traditional methods, especially for neurodivergent individuals. Say No Without Guilt: Declining engagements or opportunities can help maintain mental health and prevent burnout, ensuring long-term well-being. More about Liz: Dr. Liz Slonena (slow-nih-nah) is an ADHD psychologist, speaker, and business consultant located in Asheville, NC. She's a connoisseur of nerdy things, from anime to JRPGs. Dr. Liz takes neurodivergent entrepreneurs from stuck to inspired using Mindful Hypnosis, a science-backed way to rapidly reduce stress and feel more calm, confident, and creative. If you're ready to reignite your spark, experience Dr. Liz's Mindful Hypnosis meditations on YouTube, Aura, and InsightTimer. Instagram: @Dr.LizListens instagram.com/dr.lizlistens Facebook: facebook.com/DrLizListens LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drlizlistens TikTok: @Dr.LizListens tiktok.com/@dr.lizlistens Youtube: Your Zen Within | Relax with Dr. Liz: youtube.com/c/YourZenWithinRelaxwithDrLiz Insight Timer: Dr. Liz Listens insig.ht/QBuKayPZLrb –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Group therapy services are a great option for therapists who want to diversify their practice and enhance client connection. In this episode, I talk with Dr. Brittany Bate, owner of Be BOLD Psychology and Consulting, about the ins and outs of running successful therapy groups. Brittany shares her extensive experience and offers insightful tips for therapists who want to incorporate group therapy into their practice. 3 Key Takeaways: Consistency in Marketing is Crucial: Don't shy away from posting multiple times across various platforms and track your marketing efforts. Remember, people need to see something multiple times before they take action. Know Your Audience and Needs: Focus on timely group topics that meet current demands, and you can analyze your client caseload and community discussions for ideas. Benefits for Clinicians and Clients: Group therapy offers more accessible options for clients and diversifies clinician workload to break the monotony of 1-on-1 sessions. Remember to establish clear structures for therapeutic and financial efficacy. Brittany's insights are great for anyone looking to expand their practice offerings and bring clients together in meaningful ways. About Brittany: Dr. Brittany Bate is a licensed psychologist and owner of Be BOLD Psychology and Consulting, a medium-sized North Carolina-based, private-pay, multidisciplinary virtual group practice. Brittany is also an entrepreneur and private practice coach, helping other mental health clinicians to be bold in building the private practice of their dreams. Brittany's coaching practice focuses on assisting clinicians with private pay and telehealth practice networking, referral building, and networking, group practice building, group therapy programming, and time-saving systems! Website: boldpracticebuilders.com Email: drbate@beboldpsychnc.com Mention this podcast for 15% off your product purchase. –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

In this episode, Dr. Shauna Pollard and I had a dynamic discussion on navigating life and career through the lens of ADHD, entrepreneurship, and the unique challenges faced by BIPOC communities. Here are three key takeaways: Embracing Neurodivergence in Business: We shared how openly disclosing our neurodivergent identities has not only helped us embrace who we are but has also made clients with similar characteristics feel more comfortable seeking therapy. Importance of Community and Support: Dr. Pollard's coaching programs and consultation groups for BIPOC ADHD entrepreneurs highlight the crucial need for community support. These groups offer a platform for participants nationwide to connect and discuss essential topics like finances, practice-building, and resources. Navigating the Challenges of Entrepreneurship with ADHD: Entrepreneurship requires balancing numerous ideas and managing expectations, a challenge magnified for those with ADHD. It's important to temper energy to prevent burnout and diversify interests to sustain longevity in practice. Read Dr. Shauna Pollard's full bio here: atppod.com/153 Shauna's group for BIPOC Clinicians with ADHD—starts Sept. 20, runs for 6 weeks: drshaunap.as.me/BIPOC-ADHD-Clinicians Notes and Networking event for 3 hrs on Sat. August 10 to help clinicians who are struggling with notes: drshaunap.as.me/Notesandnetworking LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/drshaunap Instagram: instagram.com/drshaunap Website: drspllc.com –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

In this episode, Maureen Werrbach, the owner and founder of The Group Practice Exchange, and I discuss how being autistic and ADHD shapes our leadership styles, the challenges and unique strengths that come with being neurodivergent entrepreneurs, and the ripple effect of being authentic, from creating safe work environments to fostering creativity among teams. Key Takeaways: Understanding Neurodivergent Traits: Embrace the unique strengths and challenges that come with being neurodivergent and how it shapes leadership and entrepreneurship. Creating Inclusive Work Environments: Learn how openly sharing neurodivergent traits can lead to more accommodating and supportive workplaces that boost overall team success. Authenticity in Business: Realize the power of showing up authentically in your professional life, and how it can create a positive impact on both your business and audience. About Maureen: Maureen developed her coaching program, The Group Practice Exchange, based not only on her own experience with starting her private practice but also growing it into a successful group practice. She spent countless hours researching how to start a private practice (the legal and procedural steps) and then many more hours learning how to grow it into a group (again trying to figure out the appropriate steps). Through trial and error, she learned what works and what doesn't in running a counseling group practice. Maureen thoroughly enjoy helping clinicians become confident and organized group practice business owners. Website: thegrouppracticeexchange.com –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Patrick Casale is the tounder of All Things Private Practice, Host of All Things Private Practice Podcast.  Co-Host of Divergent Conversations Podcast, Retreat Host, Group Practice Owner, ND Entrepreneur Coach, Keynote speaker. Patrick lives in Asheville, NC w/ his wife, Ariel and their 2 dogs, Hudson and Hazel.   Maureen Werrbach, LCPC, is a visionary entrepreneur in the mental health field. As the owner of a multi location group practice and a business consultant, her goal is to help group practice owners build a practice they're proud of.

On episode 233, Emily Kircher-Morris is joined by Patrick Casale, a mental health clinician specializing in addictions. The conversation covers a lot of ground, including neurodiversity-affirming practices, and the intersectionality of addiction and neurodivergence. They discuss the importance of creating a neurodivergent affirming environment throughout the therapeutic process, from intake to therapy sessions. They talk about the need for a more nuanced understanding of addiction in the neurodivergent community and the importance of community and connection in recovery. They address concerns about stimulant medication and its relationship to substance abuse, as well as the impact of video games and electronics on addiction. TAKEAWAYS Creating a neurodivergent affirming environment is crucial in the therapeutic process, from intake to therapy sessions. A more nuanced understanding of addiction is needed in the neurodivergent community, considering the impact of neurodivergent traits on coping mechanisms. Community and connection are essential in recovery from addiction. Concerns about stimulant medication and its relationship to substance abuse should be addressed with a focus on individual experiences and needs. The impact of video games and electronics on addiction should be evaluated based on how they affect daily functioning and well-being. Neurodivergent burnout requires sensory soothing and accommodations in the workplace or school settings. Support and normalization are important for individuals struggling with addiction. Get signed up for the live, free continuing education training, Foundations of Neurodiversity-Affirming Therapy, happening on Friday, July 12th. If you can't be there live, you can still access the video and get the credit. Learn more about 2e students by taking our course, Strategies for Supporting Twice-Exceptional Students. It's great for CE credits for educators, and the course will be enlightening to anyone curious about helping 2e students thrive in the classroom. Patrick Casale is an AuDHD Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist in Asheville, NC.. He is the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling. Patrick works as a business coach and strategist, and is also a group practice owner, motivational speaker, international retreat planner, the host of All Things Private Practice Podcast, and co-host of Divergent Conversations Podcast. His work has helped and inspired thousands of mental health professionals to take risks, start and grow their businesses, and invest in themselves. Patrick has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists. He is a passionate advocate for reducing shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their authenticity. He loves good coffee, craft beer, playing soccer, and traveling the world. His official motto has become “doubt yourself do it anyway”. BACKGROUND READING Patrick's website Instagram

In this episode of All Things Private Practice, Patrick Casale sits down with Dr. Antoine L. Crosby, psychologist and owner of Affirmative Spaces. Together, they delve into the nuanced journey of creating safe, affirmative spaces in mental health care for BIPOC queer individuals. Key Takeaways: Building Safe Spaces: Antoine shares his inspiring mission to create environments where marginalized communities can seek help and exist fully. Learn how aligning your practice with a robust set of values can support and protect these communities. Authenticity in Practice: We explore the emotional labor of code-switching and the liberation that comes with embracing and presenting one's authentic self in all spaces, from personal relationships to professional settings. Community & Healing: Discover the powerful role community plays in healing, why having more BIPOC mental health providers is critical, and how mentorship programs contribute to the overall well-being of both clinicians and clients. Dr. Crosby's commitment to authenticity and community support is a potent reminder of what we can accomplish in mental health care. As Antoine gears up for growth, expanding his practice to meet the needs of those who seek space to be fully heard and seen, we are reminded of the importance of psychological safety and representation. Get in touch with Dr. Antoine Crosby: Website: affirmativespaces.com Instagram: @docwithlocs_ –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Sign up for the FREE Masterclass - From Solo to Super Team: How to Build a 7 Figure Group Practice → https://members.mccancemethod.com/masterclass-registration/ In this episode, group practice owner Patrick Casale shares his inspiring leadership journey. He discusses valuable insights on thinking outside the box and embracing diversity in the workplace. Get ready to be inspired!Here are some key points in this episode: [5:40] Strengths that come from neurodiversity [7:30] Being neurodivergent as a leader[10:39] Advice on trusting your team [14:08] Having the right systems [17:48] Use anonymous feedback forms Links From Episode: Private Practice Startup Guide: Atppod.com/freebies All Things Private Practice Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/all-things-private-practice-podcast/id1596161682 Divergent Conversations: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/divergent-conversations/id1662009631 More about Patrick: Patrick Casale is an AuDHD Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist in Asheville, NC.. He is the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling. Patrick works as a Private Practice Coach and Strategist, and is also a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, International Retreat Planner, the host of All Things Private Practice Podcast, and Co-Host of Divergent Conversations Podcast.His work has helped and inspired thousands of mental health professionals to take risks, start and grow their businesses, and invest in themselves.He has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists. Patrick is a passionate advocate for reducing shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their Authenticity. He loves good coffee, craft beer, playing soccer, and travelling the world.Doubt Yourself Do It Anyway has become his official mottoWebsites: All things Private Practice: https://www.allthingspractice.com/  Social Media Links: Instagram - @allthingsprivatepracticeHow We Can Work Together:Book a Practice Growth Audit Call - https://members.mccancemethod.com/practice-growth-audit/Follow me on Instagram, @nicole.mccanncemethod. If this episode provided you with value and inspiration, please leave a review and DM to let me know. Click here: https://www.instagram.com/nicole.mccancemethod Join the FREE private community for therapists: Expand your Psychotherapy Practice → https://www.facebook.com/groups/947689352498639 Sign up for the FREE Masterclass - From Solo to Super Team: How to Build a 7 Figure Group Practice → https://members.mccancemethod.com/masterclass-registration/

Rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD) impacts many aspects of your life and can be a driving force in how you manage relationships and internally process the world around you, so there are many nuances for it. In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, answer some of the questions from listeners about RSD, including everything from self-shaming to the connection with other diagnoses. Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode: Understand what masked RSD looks like and the impact it has on shame and finding connection. Identify what connections and impact RSD might have on conditions like PMDD, as well as how the experience of rejection can be viewed differently between ADHD and Autistic individuals. Learn some strategies to help deal with the experience of RSD to create a better environment around you and pay attention to your core needs. When it comes to RSD, everything goes back to connection. It's both the thing that humans need and also something that can seem so difficult to attain and maintain. If you are struggling with complex and shifting intrusive narratives or internalized emotions that can last for years, try to focus on your core needs at the moment and check in with yourself so that you can offer yourself the opportunity to think more objectively and take action that is more likely to benefit you. Resources plus Exclusive Coupon Code Dr. Neff's Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria Workbook Bundle (Clinical Use): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-clinical  Dr. Neff's Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria Workbook Bundle (Personal Use): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-bundle Use Code: “DivergentConversationsListener” To get 20% off anything in the shop, including the RSD bundle.  Dr. Neff's free blog posts on RSD: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/category/Rejection+Sensitive+Dysphoria    A Thanks to Our Sponsor, Tula Consulting! ✨ Tula Consulting: We would love to thank Tula Consulting for sponsoring this episode. Workplace communication can be messy. Considering the lens of neurodiversity can be helpful for understanding this. Maybe you found yourself frustratedly typing "per my last email" in an office communication, perplexed about how a colleague or client doesn't seem to understand your very clearly written email. Consider this. Visual information processing isn't everyone's strength. Perhaps a quick call could make a world of difference. Or how about including a video or voice message with your email? And this technology exists! Simple steps like these can make your work environment more accessible and bring out the best in everyone. Tula Consulting is on a mission to help organizations build more neuro-inclusive products and work environments. Tula does this by bringing curious minds to solve curious problems. Find out more by visiting tulaneurodiversity.org.   Transcript PATRICK CASALE: All right, so we are back with RSD part three, which will probably lead into an eventual RSD part four. But last week, we did not get to all of your questions, we kind of diverged, and we want to get to more of them today, especially, the ones that we think we have a lot to talk about. So, I think we want to start off with what can highly masked RSD look like? MEGAN NEFF: Love that question, first off. So, last month when I was, like, deep in RSD mode, making the workbook, I created a grid, which… this is my like pattern finding, so I just want to tease out it's not like in the clinical research. But I made a grid of overlain RSD responses on top of kind of like the fight, flight, fawn, freeze, and talked about different responses. And we talked about this a little bit in our first episode. But like the fawn and the freeze response, I would say are masked RSD responses. And so this could show up as like perpetual people-pleasing, right? And perfectionism, those two. The myth being if I never make a mistake, or if I never make someone upset with me, then I would never have to experience this really painful thing. And so a lot of masked RSD looks like really high-performing, high-achieving kind of busybodies ways of being in the world. And then I think when the RSD doesn't really get triggered, because none of us are perfect, and even if we're people pleasers, we're going to have miscommunications with people. I think that experience gets very internalized. So, instead of perhaps an emotional or angry outburst, what you're going to see is things like perhaps substance use, or a lot of negative self-talk, and rumination, and retreating, in some cases, self-harm, and other really like that…. And taking the pain internal. Like, also talked about as internalization, you're going to see a lot more of that. So, the people around you might not actually even know you're having an RSD trigger. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. And you know, those are the moments, right? Where we could use the language for a lot of self-destructive behavior going on behind the scenes to be able to keep up appearances, to be able to apply that social lubricant, like you've mentioned before, of this is how I fit into these spaces, this is how I show up, this is how I can people please, this is how I can socialize. And then that burnout just really takes over, right? Because there's going to be intensified depression, there's going to be intensified burnout, there's going to be intensified anxiety going on behind the scenes. And you, kind of, like, starting each day from a negative energy reserve and trying to get it back at that point in time where you're like, I'm operating at like negative percentage, and I'm going to put myself into the situation again, and again, and again. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. And then we've also got to consider shame dynamics, which also perpetuate all those things you just mentioned of people with internalized RSD would have a lot of shame dynamics going on, which perpetuates a lot of like negative coping. And here's the thing about shame, so shame theory is really interesting, actually. But one of the tricky things about shame is that sometimes there's this belief we fall into or trap. Like, if I can self-shame enough, I can protect from other shame, right? So, self shame it's the shame we give ourself. Other shame is the shame we experience from others. So, people with very internalized RSD who are, you know, people pleasing, perfectionistic, tend to have really harsh inner critics that are very shame-based and have a really hard time diffusing and unhooking from these inner critics partly because the inner critic feels really protective. Because if that inner critic is, "I'm going to shame you, so you don't experience shame from another person." It's playing a protective role. Now, we would argue it's not actually protecting or helping the person, right? But it feels like it's incredibly protective. Most of my life I've had a very, very harsh inner critic. And yeah, I couldn't unhook from it until the last few years because I was like, "No, this is protecting me." So, self shame protecting from other shame. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, shame is one of those emotional experiences that is probably one of the most painful things that happens to a human being, I think, that that shame spiral is so incredibly painful, destructive, torturous, hellacious. I mean, the criticism that ramps up the internal dialogue. I tend to go into more of like a shutdown space when I'm feeling really shameful. I noticed that comes up a lot when I feel like I can't do something that I feel like I should be able to easily do like screw something in in a way that looks even, or not cause a hole in the wall, or having to call a handy person after that because I've created said issue. That happens a lot. Then there's the social shame component where that really happens with the RSD triggers for me, where it really does create this almost like existential dread component to where you are really questioning everything and anything and almost losing sight of your sense of self in those moments too. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, I think we absolutely lose sight of ourselves in shame spirals. Yeah, so that's kind of, I guess, clinical or lexiconic, if that's the word, definition of shame, just in case people aren't aware. So, guilt is the experience of like, I've done something bad and guilt is actually a good experience. Right? It's helpful feedback. For one, we're not living consistently with our values. Shame, on the other hand, is I am bad, right? It's like I am the bad object, I am bad. And so that experience of I am bad. It's interesting, as we're talking about shame I'm like, how are we three episodes into RSD and we haven't talked about shame yet? Or even how did I write a workbook on RSD and not to talk about shame? Because I think, really what we're talking about it is when the shame is activated relationally because I think that is what happens with the RSD trigger is it's, I let this person down, or I like hard feedback, I am bad, right? And it's such a quick narrative we drop into, I am a bad person, which is the shame narrative. PATRICK CASALE: For sure. So much of our sense of self, self-worth is connected too. And that narrative of I am bad, or I am unworthy, or I am not good enough, or all of the things that start surfacing, oh, man, I've seen so many, just situations where shame has created this spiraling sensation that has created an immense amount of destruction in people's lives in terms of both therapeutically and personally, and from my own perspective for myself. So, it is one of those emotions that is just really, really painful. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, absolutely. PATRICK CASALE: I mean, we're talking about associations right now and we're talking about shame, we're talking about guilt, we're talking about sense of self that all gets triggered. We start to also see, and I just want to use a trigger warning, but we do start to see an intensified sense of suicidal ideation with a lot of this, too. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. Oh, I mean, yeah, shame and suicidality absolutely walk hand in hand. So, when you're doing a suicide assessment, there's questions you ask, and how a person answers some of those questions are indicative of how much risk they're in. And one of those questions that tells us this person is in a really high-risk bucket is do you believe or feel that the people in your life would be better off if you weren't here? And shame seduces us into that really painful narrative, shame and many other things, depression, but… PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I personally think that shame is one of the most damaging and destructive things that we experience. So, heaviness aside, techniques and strategies to work through that shameful experience when it's coming over you because there are ways to not let it engulf you and drown you in a way where, you know, it can be that devastating and destructive too. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, I mean, Brene Brown is really the queen when it comes to shame, right? Like, I love the idea that vulnerability is the anecdote or the cure to shame. And I think that's part of why when we have internalized RSD we're so prone to some of the like negative coping, because we're less likely to reach out and be like, "Hey, I'm having this experience right now." We probably feel shame about the experience, right? Like shame about being too sensitive, shame about our shame. So, reaching out becomes incredibly difficult. But if we can find someone, whether it's a therapist, or a friend, or a partner who gets it and where we can give that shame some breathing room, and by breathing room not like room to expand, but like room to dissipate, right? Where it doesn't live inside so intensely, that is one of the most powerful things we can do to disrupt a shame spiral is to connect, which again, like we're talking about relational shame, right? So, like belonging has been threatened. It makes sense that connection would be the anecdote to that. PATRICK CASALE: And it also makes sense that it would be the last thing that you would reach for when you're feeling like, "Oh, I'm really feeling this massive amount of shame or rejection. I know I need connection, but I can't reach out for it, because that makes me feel too vulnerable, that makes me feel unsafe. I don't feel worthy of connection." Whatever the internal dialogue is, it makes it that much harder a lot of the time. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. Well, it's interesting, I'm thinking about the matrix and I'll, like, find a way to make a one page infographic of this that I'm referring to, and we can attach it, because the other parts of the matrix are fight, flee. And I'm just seeing how all of these reactions, all of these stress reactions to RSD move us away from what we need, they move us away from connection. So, if we're fleeing, obviously, that's going to move us away from connection in the in the fight. That's where I would say projection comes online, and where the shame is so intolerable to feel it gets projected onto other people, and then we lead with anger. That's a way of pushing people away. So, whether it's like we're retreating in our pain internally, we're fleeing, or we're projecting all of these move us away from what we need, which is connection. And so, I think that's a lot of work living and working with RSD is figure out like, these are going to be my, like, automatic stress state responses. How do I override that to actually address a coordinate here and move toward that? PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think that's a great point. And if we can anchor into the idea that foundationally at the root of this is the desire and necessity to have connection yet the fearfulness or inability to feel like you can access it, and just constantly trying to anchor in, and remember, like, connection is at the root of this, right? Like, as humans, relational beings, regardless of we're introverted, extroverted, does not matter, we still need connection in some capacity. That's something that we absolutely need and it's a major… What am I going to say? It's majorly a part of our makeup. And when we don't have access, or we feel like it's not possible, or we don't have those people in our lives we can turn to, then this can really start to spiral out of control, I think, and this is where we see this really get to that negatively impactful place, and that really destructive place too. I'm not finding my words appropriately right now, but I just want to emphasize the importance of connection. MEGAN NEFF: I feel like I was tracking. I didn't notice that. I feel like I could linger in this conversation if this feels poignant and important. I'm also aware we talked about trying to get through questions in this episode. PATRICK CASALE: Oh, yeah. We did [CROSSTALK 00:14:08]- MEGAN NEFF: Should we move on to the next one? PATRICK CASALE: Let's put in that one question because I think that the topic of shame, in general, could be an entire series. MEGAN NEFF: Let's do an episode on neurodivergent shame because shame is very much part of the experience. It's often tied to, like, of course, past relational experiences we've had, internalized ableism, and then a lot of us have co-occurring trauma and trauma and shame are also very, like part of what's traumatizing about trauma is the shattering of self that often happens in trauma. So, yeah, let's do a shame episode or episodes, because it's a big topic. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, so for everyone listening, if shame is important, it feels like it's a part of your experience, which I assume for most of you it is, including ourselves, we will do more episodes on shame and specifically focused on that topic. But we do have other questions that we want to get to, if we want to make it an Answer Your Questions episode. So, one question was RSD linkage to PMDD. So, you wanted to take that one? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, I mean, I think we should do an episode on PMDD, and just like neurodivergence and hormones at some point. Anyways, but PMDD is essentially, oh my gosh, what does it technically stand for? PATRICK CASALE: Post-menopausal dysphoric disorder? MEGAN NEFF: Good job. Yeah, I've been referring it to PMDD so long. I was like, I'm not going to get those letters right. Thank you. So, it's kind of- PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:15:47] also dysphoric disorder. MEGAN NEFF: I mean, it's like PMS on steroids, essentially. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it's called that. MEGAN NEFF: So, basically, yeah, PMS on steroids, the clinical definition, PMS on steroids. PATRICK CASALE: Going into the DSM 6 soon, premenstrual dysphoric disorder? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. And it's very connected to like how hormones are shifting as part of this cycle. And both autistic and ADHD people who have a estrogen cycle, would that be the way to say it? That experience a cycle are much more vulnerable to do both PMS and PMDD. And one of the things about PMDD… PMDD can be really intense. Like, I've definitely seen cases where someone baseline mood is actually pretty okay but will experience like, acute suicidality in that like week or that period. Like, it can be that intense. It's not that intense for everyone, but for some people, it is that intense of a mood shift. So, absolutely, like, I describe it as like just paper thin, like in the sense of like everything's getting in, in that period. So, emotions are going to be heightened. So, of course, RSD, if someone has a baseline RSD, that's also going to be heightened because RSD is connected to emotion regulation. So, with PMDD, emotional regulation becomes a lot harder. And we tend to feel things more intensely. So, yeah, I hadn't actually thought about that, but I love that of that thought experiment of what RSD looks like in that window of time. And I think that's actually really helpful to know. Because it's not going to make it go away, but being able to say like I know RSD triggers are going to be big this week, I'm probably going to perceive rejection where it's not, I'm going to feel it deeply. It doesn't mean it's true. Like, being able to do that self-talk. Like, I don't know whether I have PMDD. But I definitely have like hormonal shifts. I'll tell myself typically that week, "Don't trust your mind. You're not allowed to think about the future, you're not allowed to evaluate relationships." Like, I have like hard rules about what my mind is allowed to do that week. And it's not like a harsh rule. It's like a kind, like, parental figure come in and be like, "You know what? Your mind's not up to any good this week." So, there's some things we're just not going to think about because it's not going to be helpful. Here's what we're going to do instead. PATRICK CASALE: I love that. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, but yeah. Sorry, go ahead. PATRICK CASALE: No, that's great. I mean, man, you can make worksheets, or like affirmations, or guidelines for people around like that sort of structuring in terms of, I'm not going to trust my mind this week. Like, these are the things that you know to be true, these are the things that we're not going to put any energy into. Like, that makes so much sense. Okay, add another episode to the list of neurodivergence and hormones. So, moving on through the questions, these are leading to episodes which we love. So, thank you for submitting these. Okay. Do stimulants cure RSD? That's a pretty basic response and we're going to say no to that. There are stimulant medications, right? Megan talked about the psychopharmacological perspective in episode one of things that do help in some capacities. But if we're going to just make a blanket statement that say stimulants do not just cure or help RSD in that capacity. Okay, we did highly masked RSD. What else did we say we were going to talk about? MEGAN NEFF: I think autistic versus ADHD, and that was a question that came in. So, you'll hear autistic people and ADHD people talk about RSD. Like, there's a lot of resources out for both. Now, I actually didn't realize this till I started doing the deep dive about… as soon as questions come up, like is RSD specific to ADHD? So, first of all, I see a lot of like monopolizing of experiences. Like, I see a lot of autistic people who are like only autistic people have sensory sensitivities, which isn't true. So, I just want to caveat that. Like, anyone can be high on the rejection sensitivity spectrum, right? This is a spectrum of humanity. RSD as a term, as a concept, as something we talk about is specific to the ADHD literature, in the sense that it's come out of ADHD literature, you know, the projections are like, I don't know how scientific this is, but according to Dr. Dotson, like 99% of ADHDers experience this. Like it's a very core component of ADHD. Other people might be very high in the rejection sensitivity spectrum for different reasons. You know, attachment style, trauma, autistic. Like being misperceived, internalized ableism. Is it RSD if a person's autistic and not ADHD? I don't know. Like, I don't know if we would apply that term. We could say there might be really high in the rejection sensitivity. I have noticed when working with autistic-only populations, it's like hit or miss. Like, maybe they have it, maybe they don't. But I also see people where it's like, I don't really care what people think about me. Like, that's also present. So, autistic people do experience victimization, and like social bullying, and marginalization, they're neuro minority. So, I think there's a lot of reasons why autistic people would also be high on rejection sensitivity. And then we know a lot of autistic people who are also ADHD. So, I think I didn't provide clarity, I just explained how muddy the waters is. PATRICK CASALE: That's okay. Sometimes that is the answer, though, how muddy the waters are, because… And I'm also thinking as you're talking, right? Like, we know so many people are undiagnosed either autistic or ADHD, and how much gets missed. So, I'm just wondering just how many people out there who identify as ADHD, who are also autistic, but unknown, or undiagnosed, and vice versa, and how so much of that also plays a role into the prevalence of RSD showing up as well? MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. I will say, oh, this was after you left, you had to dip out for a meeting, when we interviewed Amanda for Ask An Autistic I asked about this. And at first, it was kind of like, yeah, maybe some RSD. And then we talked about like, okay, what happens when… and because we're both on social media, why I asked explicitly about that, she's like, "Yeah, these narratives come on and then, you know, I've usually worked through it in like five or 10 minutes." And I was like, "Five or 10 minutes?" Like, I still get intrusive thoughts about experiences, or even like, this is embarrassing to admit, like comments that I got two years ago, where like, if I embarrassed myself, or did something I'm not proud of, I still get intrusive memories about that like 20 years later. That's a pretty different experience than being able to move through something fairly quickly. And I know Amanda's just one autistic person. But that was a really interesting moment in our conversation, when, like, yes, painful, yes, hard. But the ability to have the tools to work through it without it like bouncing back for me, I work through it, but it keeps bouncing back. And then I have to work through it again. And that's part of that intrusive kind of overtaking. PATRICK CASALE: That's a great point because that actually makes me remember what I was saying for my group practice. So, shout out to Dr. Bennett Harris who's going to rub that in my face that I named him on this podcast. But saying like, these things linger for years sometimes, right? And that's something we haven't addressed yet, is the length of time. I know you've addressed it in your workbook, but we haven't addressed on air that this can bounce back, like you just mentioned for years. And it can be something where you can look at it when you're in a healthy like cognitive space where you're like, "Okay, this comment, I've worked through it." But then maybe something thematic, or something similar comes into play, and it hits you, or it impacts you in a way that you didn't expect. And all of a sudden you're right back to that comment from two and a half years ago. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah absolutely. Yeah, I'm glad we're talking about that because that's a part of RSD that like, A, it's just confusing and B, it's really stressful to just like be going throughout your day and like all of a sudden intrusive, like, embarrassing or shameful memory pops up and you're like back in it. Like, yeah. Okay, this is kind of a silly example. But we were filming an episode, and we were talking about how we need to do RSD, and we were like speaking of RSD, we just got our first like one star review. And in the moment I was like, you know, like talking through like, okay, that makes sense. But then that comment kept popping in my head throughout the day. And sometimes when I think about this podcast, like that just pops back up. And it feels so silly. And then the secondary narrative of like, "Megan Anna, why do you care about this?" Right? So, it's not just the interest of memory, there's often a second narrative that comes on up like, why are you still holding on to this? Especially, if it's something like that or like, I feel like that's petty. And I should be able to just release it, then there's a second narrative of like, why are you still thinking about this? Why can't you release it? Why can't you get over it? PATRICK CASALE: Let's talk about the secondary narrative, because I think that's so important that you just named that. One, I'm sorry for bringing that up on air, won't ever do that again. MEGAN NEFF: No, I'm glad you did. It's a good live example. And it's like, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: I think we're onto that ship forever. I cannot tell you how often I check All Things Private Practice and Divergent Conversations Apple Podcast reviews. Why am I doing this to myself? Like, why am I going on there knowing that there could, eventually, be a one star review? Like, I should be able to let that go and then that will destroy me for days. I don't know why. That's self-inflicted, it's not healthy. The secondary narrative, that process, right? Of, okay, this experience, this reaction is creating this sensation, it's creating RSD, it's creating distress, then the secondary narrative that's trying to rationalize said reaction that is exhausting to bounce back and forth between narrative one and two over and over and over and over and over again. MEGAN NEFF: Yes, and one thing I've observed, because the neurodivergent brain as well, so divergent is that we often have, like, overlapping narratives. I'm doing this with my hands of like, we'll have an experience, and then we'll have a narrative about it, and then we'll have a narrative about the narrative. And so one thing I've noticed, and I've started to be more careful with this, so I don't do too much CBT, I do have more of a mindfulness approach to like, let's start noticing your thoughts. What I've noticed, and I think, especially, with neurodivergent people, sometimes once they started noticing their thoughts, they got worse. So, like, there's an experience of this. So, the next week came back and like so much worse. So, it's like, okay, let's unpack what's happening here. And it was the secondary narratives. It's now that I'm observing my thoughts, I'm having so much judgments, and evaluations, and feelings about those thoughts. And so then you have to teach how to become mindful of the secondary narrative, right? PATRICK CASALE: RSD about the RSD. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. RSD about the RSD. And invalidation, right? Like, I think we're really good at invalidating ourselves in those narratives. Yeah, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: I'm going to try not to diverge too much, because we said we were going to stay on course, which we should always know it's never going to happen. I'm thinking about like, secondary narratives, and how often I have to verbally process them out loud. Like, I will talk myself through the secondary narratives a lot of the time, and how often my wife looks at me in the house. And she's like, "Who the fuck are you talking to?" And I'm like, "I am talking through like my internalized experience and my thoughts that are happening right now and processing them out loud to try to pick them apart to decide what feels rational versus irrational and what feels like there's a linkage to." And she's like, "Is this happening in your brain all the time?" And I was like, "This is happening in my brain all the time." MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's weird to me that it's not happening for everyone inside their brain all the time. Like- PATRICK CASALE: Like, this isn't taking up all this mental real estate 24/7 for you? People were like, "What?" She looked at me like, "How do you sleep?" And I'm like, "Well, you know the answer to that, not well." Oh, my God. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, we have busy minds. And so I think learning how to work with our mind it becomes really important. PATRICK CASALE: Sometimes that is that mindfulness. Like, for me when I hear the word mindfulness, right? And I'm really going to diverge is I hate that word. MEGAN NEFF: I do too. I do too. PATRICK CASALE: Because I associate it with like being still- MEGAN NEFF: Meditation. PATRICK CASALE: Meditate. MEGAN NEFF: Come to your mind. PATRICK CASALE: Exactly. Yeah, that's not going to happen. MEGAN NEFF: No. PATRICK CASALE: But I would much rather apply mindfulness in the way that you do, which I think you said was like, I cannot remember the term that you [CROSSTALK 00:29:38]- MEGAN NEFF: Oh, mindfulness on the go. And I searched it up after that. And there actually is a book that was written a long time ago with that same term. So, I did not come up with the term. I mean… PATRICK CASALE: But I like what you mentioned, right? Like, you're being mindful about the temperature of your smoothie in the morning, or your water, or you're being mindful about the fact that your mind is diverging into a million different directions. And instead of like saying, "Oh my God, my mind is diverging into a million different directions. I need to shut it down. There's something wrong, I can't do it." I'd rather say my mind is diverging into a million different directions. And I'm just being mindful of that. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. So, when I think about mindfulness, like I like the imagery of tagging. Like, I feel like a lot of what I'm doing is tagging, like, oh, that's what that is, that's what that is. So, it's like naming, tagging, and… PATRICK CASALE: List making. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, what did you say? PATRICK CASALE: List making MEGAN NEFF: List making. Well, no, I think I would think of list making as more like you're in the content. And when I think about mindful tagging, it's more of an observational process. That's a really subtle distinction. And that's part of it. So, I like the imagery of like, observing mind, evaluative mind, and what mindfulness, like it's not an activity, it's a way of being, it's a way of being with self. So, whenever we're in observing mind, like that observer who's not judging, not evaluating, but like tagging, like you're having this experience, this is the script that's happening, you're in observing mind. And you can do that while being busy. Like, you can do that. You don't have to sit and listen to a 10-minute meditation and try to empty your mind. For me, when I tried to do those exercises, then all of the evaluation scripts like I can't do this, this is so hard for me, my body physically feels uncomfortable. PATRICK CASALE: Yep. And that can even lend itself and I'm going to get us back on track in a second. But that can even lend itself to being dismissed in the medical and mental health care system where medical professionals are like, "Have you tried mindfulness for sleep?" And you're like, "The fuck? Yes, of course, I have tried mindfulness for sleep. I am neurodivergent. Do you understand how that mean? How the brain works?" Yes, I have tried it. Have I ever tried to like tag and be mindful of a million different thoughts simultaneously while looping them all together? Like, that's every night of my experience? Of course, I've tried that. Yeah, anyway, I don't want to diverge that way. So, you wanted to also get to the topic of… MEGAN NEFF: Oh, yes, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: … slash [CROSSTALK 00:32:20]… MEGAN NEFF: So, we got a couple of questions about like, how do you tease out RSD from trauma, from attachment stuff? Which is great question. So, first, I think whenever we get the, like, tease out questions, I want to first ask, like, for what cause? Or for what purpose are we teasing this out? If it's like, I don't know what the diagnosis is, if you're a clinician, that's going to be a very different conversation. And if it's like, this is a known neurodivergent person. So, I mean, it's physiologically the same things happening, right? Like, the sympathetic nervous system or shut down mode, like it's been activated, a stress state has been activated. We're responding to something relational like, so teasing out like what are the triggers? So, in the context of trauma, and well, that also gets complicated over time about PTSD with a specific trauma, we're talking about complex trauma? But like, what are the triggers around it? Same thing with attachment. But honestly, I have a hard time teasing out like, what is anxious attachment and what is RSD, because if criticism, or feedback, or someone being disappointed in you, that's going to be an attachment injury. So, in attachment theory, we talked about attachment injuries, and that's going to activate stuff. So, yeah, again, muddy waters. When it's the neurodivergent person who also has trauma, also has insecure attachment, that point it's like a soup, right? Like all of these things are intersecting. And which means, also, like on one hand that could feel disempowering, but on the other hand, it means like, as we heal from trauma, as we move toward more secure attachment, everything's going to get better, right? The whole system's going to get better. Okay, I feel like I've talked or rambled. Let's stop for now. PATRICK CASALE: When you say it's, you know, muddy waters and like a soup, I think that's, again, I know so many of you want clarity on this. And I think sometimes there's not a lot of clarity to be given, because so many [CROSSTALK 00:34:44]- MEGAN NEFF: …things intersect. And these are constructs, right? Like attachment theory. Like, these are constructs we've put on top of experiences. PATRICK CASALE: Right. MEGAN NEFF: But they're limited. PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. MEGAN NEFF: Now, it's totally up to you. PATRICK CASALE: No, that's fine. We're both having thoughts at the same time. But the one takeaway when we're talking about attachment trauma, if we're trying to like differentiate, if we're trying to… okay, if we want to put RSD over here versus what's anxious versus what's avoidant versus what's complex PTSD? Gets really murky. But what is at the foundational level of all of these things? It's something we've talked about several times already in the last two hours, connection. Attachment trauma is about connection. RSD, ultimately, is about connection, complex PTSD, there's going to be layers of unsafe or unhealthy connection. And I think that so often we're missing this mark of like, we want so badly to understand what's happening to us or our own experiences, right? But at the end of the day, foundationally, at our core, it comes back to connection, and our desire to have it, and our inability sometimes to receive it, or maintain it. And I think that that impacts everything that we're talking about. MEGAN NEFF: I love that of like, get back to the basics. And I think, especially, with autistic people, I can see this of like, we want to know precisely what's happening, right? So, like, what's the RSD? What's the trauma? What's this? I don't know how helpful that conversation is, but I do know that what's helpful is getting down to the core need. Like, okay, this is a painful moment, what do I need in this moment? And getting back to that like? And yeah, typically, a lot of these things are connection, belonging, these are the things that are being threatened, and this is what I need right now. So, getting back to the basics in those moments, I think, is ultimately, typically, going to be more helpful than like, is this attachment is this? It's like it's all the things, right? It's all the things intersecting in a difficult moment. PATRICK CASALE: Exactly. And what usefulness does it serve if we're just throwing label on top of label on top of label, because like, there's such a bad negative stereotype with avoidant attachment as there is, and then you throw, you know, the label of autism or neurodivergence, and people are going to have their own experiences around this. And I think, if we just circle back to connectivity, and just the ability to have relationships, and what are we missing? What are we feeling like we're really having painful experiences around? The attachment label doesn't matter as much. Like, it just gets so complicated and convoluted then, or trying to, like, parse apart, you know, things that are really deeply connected and interwoven too, and it's really hard sometimes to get a sense of like, where does this go? And where do I place this? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think, partly, like, we have to get into how is the label being used? You know, I take a very constructivistic approach to language in general. Like, I prefer language that is most helpful. So, for some person, like talking about like, oh, my attachment system is activated right now. If that's the most helpful for you attuning to yourself, and validating your experience, use that language, right? If it's more helpful to be like, "Oh, my RSD is activated right now." Use that language, use that frame. But how these labels are being used, I realized, like for myself, I often use these labels in that mindful tagging way that we were just talking about of like, "Oh, this is happening for me right now." But I'm very aware that those labels could be used and have a very different experience for someone, right? It could be like, a shame base. Like, this thing is activated right now and I'm so like, mad about it and mad at myself. Or it could be used as a distancing, right? Distancing from the core wound, distancing from the core need by saying, "Oh, that's RSD." And then, like, just leaving it at that. It could be a way to emotionally distance from the pain. So, as much as the label is important, I think, more so like, how is that label being used? What's the internal experience of it? PATRICK CASALE: I just lost your sound for a second. MEGAN NEFF: Oh. PATRICK CASALE: You're back, okay. I heard how is this label being used? How is this label being experienced? Is that it? MEGAN NEFF: Yes. And then I was done. So, I just feel like I ended the sentence. PATRICK CASALE: Maybe that was it. But yeah, I agree 100%. And I think if we can kind of incorporate some of those techniques, and strategies, and just ways of thinking about this it could be a little bit less painful. And it's given me a lot of ideas right now, which is not where I want my brain to be going, and to diverging into all these ideas because I've got to get into other meetings. But I have so many ideas for episodes based off of these last couple of conversations. And again, I just want to highlight how helpful these Ask The Audience sessions can be, because, one, we want your feedback. Those of you who are listening, we appreciate all of you. That feedback has been very helpful, constructive, positive, and we do not take it for granted. And we want to answer these questions because we know a lot of this experience is feeling confused, feeling overwhelmed, feeling [INDISCERNIBLE 00:40:26], feeling disconnected, feeling alone, and we want to help maybe make this a little bit more of a human experience for all of you involved. Megan's just [INDISCERNIBLE 00:40:42]. MEGAN NEFF: I'm feeling like that was the conclusion, episodes are out every Friday. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, episodes are out every Friday on all major platforms and YouTube. And goodbye. MEGAN NEFF: It's like a compulsion now, Patrick. I like have to make it awkward at the end. PATRICK CASALE: I mean, you're doing a good job. MEGAN NEFF: I honestly I'm not trying. It's just like, okay, that was the summary. You look at me. I don't know what to add. I feel like if I add anything I'll have ruined yourself your beautiful summary. My voice is now going out. PATRICK CASALE: Just that. MEGAN NEFF: Goodbyes are rough. PATRICK CASALE: All right, goodbyes are rough. Goodbye.

If you struggle with rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD), navigating social media can be complicated.  Social media is both a place where many neurodivergent individuals are able to find connection and be seen, but it can also be a place where impulsivity and reactiveness can run rampant, both on the giving and receiving end of online conversations and posts. In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, delve deep into the complex relationship between social media, rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD), setting boundaries, and mental well-being. Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode: Understand how to address RSD burnout with social media, as well as the important role that boundary-setting plays in helping you show up online with reduced intensity of RSD. Hear about some ways that Autistic individuals may experience social media differently, and even more positively, than allistic people and neurotypicals. Learn some RSD-symptom-reducing strategies to check yourself and check in with others when you are struggling with fear of being misunderstood. As you navigate the complexities of social media, remember to check in with yourself and establish your boundaries for the way you interact with others online and who you allow into your space. Don't be afraid to unfollow someone or snooze posts from a friend. Make it your priority to protect your mental well-being and engage in a healthier way. Resources plus Exclusive Coupon Code Dr. Neff's Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria Workbook Bundle (Clinical Use): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-clinical  Dr. Neff's Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria Workbook Bundle (Personal Use): https://neurodivergentinsights.com/neurodivergentstore/p/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-bundle Use Code: “DivergentConversationsListener” To get 20% off anything in the shop, including the RSD bundle.  Dr. Neff's free blog posts on RSD: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/category/Rejection+Sensitive+Dysphoria  The EFT attachment infinity loop can be downloaded here: https://neurodivergentinsights.com/couples-resources   A Thanks to Our Sponsor, Tula Consulting! ✨ Tula Consulting: We would love to thank Tula Consulting for sponsoring this episode. Workplace communication can be messy. Considering the lens of neurodiversity can be helpful for understanding this. Maybe you found yourself frustratedly typing "per my last email" in an office communication, perplexed about how a colleague or client doesn't seem to understand your very clearly written email. Consider this. Visual information processing isn't everyone's strength. Perhaps a quick call could make a world of difference. Or how about including a video or voice message with your email? And this technology exists! Simple steps like these can make your work environment more accessible and bring out the best in everyone. Tula Consulting is on a mission to help organizations build more neuro-inclusive products and work environments. Tula does this by bringing curious minds to solve curious problems. Find out more by visiting tulaneurodiversity.org.   Transcript PATRICK CASALE: All right. So, last week we talked about RSD from a very basic foundational level, and we asked for questions, and we got a ton. And we want to address the ones that we can today. So, Megan and I are going to sort through these, and we have some that we definitely want to do deeper dives on. We appreciate everyone submitting them. And it's definitely a really important topic. And I think one that we could have a lot of conversation around. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. Just side note, like, I'm really liking this Q&A format podcasts. We should do more of them. It gives us structure, which is actually kind of nice for a change. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think when we introduce, like, topics, and then we can always ask for questions for follow-up so that we have episode ideas and keep the audience engaged too. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, structured chaos. Okay. PATRICK CASALE: Yes [INDISCERNIBLE 00:00:56] when we started this. MEGAN NEFF: Should we start with some of the easier questions or dive into the hard ones? PATRICK CASALE: Oh, Megan. Where's my brain out today? Everywhere. MEGAN NEFF: I need a slow warm-up, my brain is still warming up. Let's start with some of the more concrete or easier-to-answer questions. PATRICK CASALE: So, I'm looking at the questions that we have. Where would you like to start? I think maybe one is how to open social media, again, when scared of RSD hangover days. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: I think this is a good question, because we spoke a lot about, like, entrepreneurial RSD. But this is more specifically for anyone who is just experiencing RSD and having to show up on social media. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, yeah. I think social media for probably anyone with RSD, if you're at all posting or commenting is going to be a really anxiety inducing experience open. I just watched like a one hour kind of training on this from Lionni Dawson. They are a autistic ADHD entrepreneur in Australia. And, first of all, just if you're an entrepreneur, you should check out their work because it's fantastic. But they had a one hour kind of training explicitly on kind of rejection, social media. And there was some other entrepreneur stuff, but there's a lot of stuff that could be applied. So, like one of thing she said that I love was, I think there's a visual, like, a bird in nature. And she was like, "You know, if I'm walking through nature, like, a bird doesn't just yell at me like, 'You asshole.' But on social media, right? Like…" Or not a bird, okay, I'm totally mixing visuals. She's like a person or bird, I don't know, people in real life don't just yell at you you're an asshole. But that sort of interaction, like, does happen in social media spaces. So, I think, one, just having this lens of the kinds of conversation that tend to happen in digital spaces when, you know, we're more removed from the humanity of the other, it does more easily take on kind of a toxic bend. So, I think just having that framework around our interaction with social media and digital spaces, in general, is really important. And then there's kind of a criteria she walks through of like, who is this coming from? Right? Is this like, an asshole on the internet who's just trolling? Or is this a friend and you're like, you want to consider it? But actually having a system for like this feedback I'm getting is hard. Like, who is this coming from? And considering that. So, I would just say, whatever your system is having some sort of process around how you engage social media, and contextualizing it, contextualizing these interactions that are happening, and then to figuring out like, is this how you want to be interacting socially with people? I encourage people to do like a week break and see what their mental real estate is like. For some of us as neurodivergent people, like we form some of our deepest connections digitally. But I do think we need to pay attention to how we're doing that, what spaces feel generative, what spaces don't. I realize this is way more like bird's eye view than like what to actually do when you're opening the app. This is more kind of meta how to have a relationship with social media in a healthy way. But I think when you have RSD, you just have to be thinking about these things more intentionally. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think that sounds like good advice. And I'm almost thinking about, like, taking a step back and like putting different responses from different people in different buckets. Like, waiting the responses more or less because you're right, if you're walking down the street, someone is probably not going to scream that at you. I mean, most likely. But when you can type whatever you want, and just put it out into the world without really any repercussions a lot of the time. It really does create this social dynamic where it's quite polarizing and society is quite torn in so many directions. So, the likelihood of being trolled or just having people disagree with you, or have to jump in just to say something because they want to say something that can certainly lead to a response, and a shutdown, and more anxiety, and overwhelm. So, I think if you're able to, like you said, step back, contextualize, take a look at who you want to be having conversation and relationship with. And I agree with you wholeheartedly. Like, some of my deepest formed connections are via the internet and social media, some of whom I've never met in person like [CROSSTALK 00:05:49]- MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, like you and I wouldn't exist, this podcast wouldn't exist without social media. Like, I think I literally met you, I saw your podcasts with Joel. And I think it was in a Facebook group, and then we connected on Instagram. Like you and I would not know each other, this would not exist without social media, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: No, and I consider you one of my closest friends that is in my circle of people right now. But I wonder if we could ever get into, like, the existentialism and the layers that come with having to create like more of a callous skin or approach to social media. But I also acknowledge that social media plays a major factor in my business, so I know that I have to like sift through and experience some rejection at times too. And I've learned to deal with that before the common human, who's not a therapist, who's not entrepreneurial, who's not on social media for business, but is just on there for connection, it can feel like there is an inability to create community if it feels like there's just constantly rejection every time you open up Facebook, or Instagram, or whatever platform you like to be on. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, I'm going to give a few more anchoring concepts. There's this idea from social psychology called upward comparison. This sounds really twisted. Every time I say it, I can't say it with a straight face. But what the research shows is we tend to do best when we do more downward comparison than upward comparison. This is why like, it sounds so like cringy of like, intentionally compare yourself to people who are doing less well than you. I don't love that as a like intervention strategy or practice. But I do think it's important to be aware of how much of your energy is spent in upward comparison. And social media is built for a lot of upward comparison, right? If people are posting like the highlights of their life, and you're comparing the, like, mundane moments to that, like we could talk about like how many likes, how many comments, but even just the experience, as in other people's highlights, and then filling in… Like your mind fills in the stories, that can also create or trigger RSD of just like, "Look at what all these other people are doing and are able to do." So, I think being aware of social comparison and upward comparison when engaging with social media is really important. The other thing, you know, boundaries, I think, become really important. What are your boundaries? Getting clear around that. When you post things, do you have comments on? Do you not? Do you get into hard conversations in social media spaces? Or do you not? Do you say, "Hey, this would be better in an email or this would be better in a phone call." So figuring out what your boundaries are. And then the third thing, impulsivity, right? A lot of us have impulsivity. Like, there's like a breathalyzer for phones where, like, some people will do… Have you heard of this where like, you have to breathe into your phone to be not drunk to- PATRICK CASALE: Like, there's [INDISCERNIBLE 00:09:02] you know, impulsively send drunk text messages and things that get them into trouble the next day. So, yeah. MEGAN NEFF: I feel like we need like a filter like that for like impulsivity, of like, how am I going to feel about this comment in 30 minutes tomorrow, especially if we're in a heated dialogue or if there's a lot going on socio-politically? Just knowing that we're more likely to have those impulsive comments come out, and then to consider your future self, which again, is going to take, I think, intentional practice for us because it's not something a lot of us do naturally of like, how am I going to feel about this comment tomorrow? How am I going to feel about people's feedback to this if I'm putting something out there that is, you know, one of those like hot ideas. PATRICK CASALE: I'm glad you named that because I actually found myself in that situation within my Facebook group last week, and I'm not going to go into the dynamics because the issues at play are just polarizing on all sides, and there's trauma and damage being done all around worldwide. So, I'm just alluding to something without alluding to it. And I had to step back and pause my Facebook group for two and a half days because I was mentally unwell. And I was struggling to keep up with comments, and like moderate, ensure that everyone was talking to each other respectfully as adults and as therapists, which doesn't seem like something I should have to do. But I also then realized I'm like, "Okay, this group is a purpose for like, how do we help each other through entrepreneurial journeys, and it's turning into something that I don't want it to be. How do we address all things? Right? And also, how do we show up authentically? How do we stand by our values?" So, I decided I will turn comments on limited comments. So, someone can only respond every five minutes, right? Including myself, which means that you have to take [CROSSTALK 00:10:53]- MEGAN NEFF: I love that. Yeah, you have to…Yes, yes. Yeah, because that like posting in a reactive space, that's where a lot of these things kind of pile on. And so I love that, like a forced kind of nervous system break between posts. I didn't know that was possible, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. So, I turned on the limited comments, right? So, someone can only comment every five minutes. This allows me as the host, and the moderator, and the human to step back and breathe. This allows whoever is feeling really charged up to step back and breathe. And I think we can implement, like you said, these boundaries that allow for us to take that step back, to take that breath, to not respond impulsively. And also, not to react impulsively because that's what's happening in this world where we have information at the tip of our fingertips, and we can just respond to anything and any everything all the time. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. And then when we do that, and we have RSD, like, and we look back, and we're like, because I've definitely had that experience of like I'm in my reaction, and I am being impulsive. And afterwards, I'm like, "Oh, shit." And I replay the dialogue over and over and over. And, like, I don't feel like myself in those moments. And those moments become like kind of raw spots of shame. And so it's not just protecting kind of others from our spewing reactivity, but it's also protecting ourself of like how we're going to hold that memory and that whatever feelings or shame we have about how we acted in that moment. So, it's also protective of our future selves. PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely, 100%. And I think there are other things you can do too to create these boundaries. Like, you can hit the unfollow button on groups or on people that are not creating that feeling of safety, or energy, or connection. You can snooze people for 30 days. One of my favorite things to do is hit the snooze button. I have snoozed so many damn people that I did forget to unsnooze- MEGAN NEFF: I didn't know that was a thing. Okay- PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:13:03] and then also they come back up, I'm like, "Oh shit, I need to snooze them again." MEGAN NEFF: I just came up with an exercise. We should have everyone listen to this do this and you, and I should do it. Like, to log into a social media account very intentionally with a very specific lens, like a emotion nervous system lens, and to scroll but the thing you're paying attention to is what happens to you like when you see that content right? Is there activation? Is there anger? Is there like, "Oh I feel connected, and understood, and known." And yeah, to potentially like unfollow based on, I mean, that might sound harsh, but yeah, just based on like paying attention to what is your body telling you as you look at this content, and then is that someone you want to follow? I know on Facebook it feels a little bit more personal. Like, oh my goodness, this person unfollowed me or we're not friends anymore. So, I know that gets a little… But that's maybe where the snooze button's helpful. PATRICK CASALE: Well, the beauty of unfollow/snooze is not unfriend. There's a differentiation here, right? So, like, hitting unfollow means they'll never see your stuff again. But we're still friends. Like, they don't know that- MEGAN NEFF: I don't know Facebook very well anymore. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I spend too much time on Facebook, sadly. And that's where like the bulk of my work and audience comes from. And then there's the snooze button where it's like, I don't want to see these groups, or these messages, or these people for 30 days, and sometimes just simply hitting that button. And that would be the mute button on Instagram where you can mute and hide stories and posts from people too, but you don't unfollow them. And this allows for you to maintain the relationship, but just because you have a social media relationship does not mean that it's healthy for you to see their content, see their messages, see their posts every day. And if it's causing you harm, especially, if you're doing the exercise that Megan just suggested, it's a great opportunity to give yourself that detox experience or that ability to step away cleanly without hurting anyone's feelings, without like disconnecting from someone that you may have to have interaction with. So, I think it's important to always prioritize your energy first, because this stuff can really get on top of you and it can be quite depleting, and honestly, traumatizing. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. The other thing, I'm thinking way more basic here, but things like something I see come up a lot is like when you post something, and there's no comments or likes, like there's not feedback. And that's an RSD trigger, also. Like if you say an idea in a meeting, and it just like drops, and no one comes back to it. I would think having some self-affirmations, maybe we can make like self-affirmations for social media, that'd be cool content. But things like having some mantras of like, you know, how many likes I get on this post, like, doesn't represent how many people in my life care about me, or doesn't represent my worth, or my value. And so if those are the things that trigger you, I would actually work on developing or finding some self-affirmations that you could have, and have them on hand so that they can be front and center when the RSD story wants to take over your brain, you can kind of bring those back to mind. The thing with mantras and positive mantras that I always say, especially, for neurodivergent people, we have to believe them. If we don't believe them, they're probably going to make us feel worse. And sometimes it's hard for us to find mantras that we actually believe. PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. I like that idea. I also love the idea, this may sound basic and simple. But I heart every single one of my posts that I make on Facebook and Instagram, and it just allows me to feel like, okay, I made this post, I made this content, I feel proud about it, so I like it. And like I've had other people start to mention like, "I've started liking my own posts, and it makes me feel significantly better about putting it out to the world." I'm like, "Yeah." I think that there are these little subtle psychological things that you can do to offset that worry, and that concern, that overwhelm. I also wonder like, how much of RSD… I don't know if there's any research about this at all, and I'd be curious, is connected to the RAS, the reticulating activating system, the part of the brain that was developed to kind of like mediate risk-taking behavior, and kind of tells you like, "Hey, there's danger ahead. Don't do that thing. Don't post that thing. Don't pursue that thing. You know, don't experience that thing, because it's risky, or it's scary." And, you know, I think the best way for me when I'm in these moments of like, major rejection sensitive dysphoria, I didn't just say that, right? MEGAN NEFF: You did. [CROSSTALK 00:17:53]. It feels like you should. Yeah, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: I should say, it feels like it should say sensation. I don't know why I feel that way. MEGAN NEFF: Or it feels like it shouldn't be rejection sensitivity dysphoria, I actually used to call it that. But it's technically rejection sensitive dysphoria, which doesn't feel right coming out of my mouth. PATRICK CASALE: I know. MEGAN NEFF: That's the technical term that's been used, I know. PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:18:10] rejection sensitivity dysphoria many times and I'm like, no, that's- MEGAN NEFF: I actually think I have it in print as that and then only in my last round of research was like, "Oops, that's wrong." PATRICK CASALE: Right. I don't even know what I was saying, doesn't matter. MEGAN NEFF: You were talking about fear, and inhibition, and RSD. PATRICK CASALE: Yes, that, and that, and that. Oh, yeah, when I'm in these moments, when I'm experiencing RSD, when I'm noticing being really, like, critical of myself, really taking to heart what other people are saying, or not doing, or how I'm experiencing feedback, I've got to get out and move. Like creativity and just being in movement and grounding myself, whether it be in nature, or going for a walk, or just getting out of this space because I think a lot of the times that RSD space, that energy, that actual physical presence of like feeling stuck and confined in it, if I can just put my phone down or my laptop in my house, leave the technology behind, go for a walk for an hour, like, just go do something else away from it, it really does allow me to center, and ground, and just regulate. MEGAN NEFF: I love that. I love that. Yeah, I often will, like, use the metaphor of like burning excess energy. And that's very much what it feels like when I have a RSD trigger. Like, I just feel like so much energy. And so, absolutely, if I can channel it towards something like a walk or something that's more grounding, that helps me move through that energy more. I'm still going to have the intrusive thoughts, I'm still going to have the rumination, and I have other strategies for that, but getting the kind of stress, anxious energy out is so important, which is why, again, back to social media, right? Like, you could be in class opening your phone and you see something that activates, or like right before a business meeting, then you've got all this energy and you're supposed to be sitting and focused. So, that's probably another, like, thinking through when do I open this? Would be another consideration. I also, yeah- PATRICK CASALE: And that would mean a good way you mentioned boundaries, you can put those restrictions on your phone, right? If you notice, like I am impulsively or compulsively checking my phone at these times, and it's creating distress, let's say it's in class, or at work, or whatever, put the boundary or limitation on the app that says like, I can't open this from this time to this time. At least, that gives you that, like, accountability check when it's like, oh, I click on Instagram and it tells me, "But you have it turned off for the next six hours." And I'm like, "Okay, now I have to make the conscious decision of do I want to continue on to Instagram? Or do I want to realize I need to step away from this for a reason because it's for my own mental health?" MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, I'm kind of decentering from this conversation to have another conversation, I'm noticing that we're like, let's start with a simple question. And we're like 20 minutes into talking about RSD in social media. And I think there's a reason we're still talking about it. I kind of wonder if we want to make this whole episode about that, and have RSD in three parts. So, it's a huge topic. So, do you want to just keep this conversation and we can get to the more complicated questions in episode three? Cool? PATRICK CASALE: Works for me. Yeah. And, you know, I think it's also, this topic, we're probably gravitating more towards the social media topic because that's where we spend a lot of our time. Not just for our businesses, like we mentioned, but for our communities, for connection. And I think that's really challenging. Like we mentioned, the connection piece, especially, for those of us who are neurodivergent, or introverted who have a hard time going out into the world and being social or our sensory systems are just overloaded constantly, if we're working from home, especially, we're probably spending a lot of time on the internet. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, yeah, absolutely. So much of our life is spent in digital space, which is why like, narratives like social media is good or bad, like, just don't work because it's like, well, no, it is. And then it's like, let's have more nuanced conversations about how we use it, about our relationship to this, about when we have these social interactions through this container of digital space what does that do to the like, relationship, to the interaction? Like, it's so much more complex than is this thing that we have good or bad? It actually reminds me, there's a study that just came out, and I've read the abstract, and I've skimmed it, but I haven't read it in detail yet. But it's a really interesting study. So, it's looking at autistic teens, and depression and anxiety. And so this is well-known in the research, right? Social media, and teen like depression, anxiety, like social media use tends to increase depression, anxiety. So, they did a study and they looked at autistic teens versus non-autistic teens. What they found was that for non-autistic teens, like how much a person was using social media, or maybe it was digital, maybe it was screens. I think it was more broadly with screens, increased depression, anxiety, but for autistic people, it didn't it. In fact, I think it decreased it, and then where the researchers get it is autistic people are using digital space differently. They're using the internet differently. And I thought that was so interesting. And I want to do more of a deep dive into that. But I'm also curious, I mean, we've been talking a lot about the ADHD experience. I'd be curious, like, yeah, how are autistic people using digital space differently in a way that is maybe helpful for mental health or at least less harmful? PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I'm actually thinking of an example. I had my first major throat surgery two years ago. And I remember, like, laying in the hospital bed, like recovering and obviously, can't speak, because I'm like recovering and just had throat surgery. But I'm also isolated, right? Like, I'm just laying on the hospital bed. And I know that I'm going to be there for the next three days. And I was online, I was in my Facebook group and I was like, talking, and just sharing updates, and whatever. And several people were like, "Hey, you're supposed to be recovering. Like, you should get off of social media." Hence, like the social media is bad phenomenon/reality. And I got really like reactive/defensive in a way where I was like, "But this is how I connect with the world. This is not taking energy from me, this is actually energizing me to feel a part of something that I've created opposed to feeling isolated and alone, laying on this hospital bed for the next three days." Like, yeah. MEGAN NEFF: I love that. And that I feel like really gets at the heart of it, which I would say is belonging, like humans have an innate need to belong. Social psychologists have really picked this up in the last handful of years of, you know, adding into some of like Freudians innate drives, when he would say an innate drive is to belong. And there's actually been some interesting research that what they demonstrated was that a lot of anxiety, and a lot of pathological anxiety, because anxiety is not always pathological is connected to this need to belong. So, this is such an innate, built in need in us. So, that's what I hear you saying in that moment is like, "Wait, no, like I need to tap into belonging as part of my recovery. And that is what I am getting from this space." PATRICK CASALE: Absolutely. And I don't know if I was able to communicate it that succinctly. But what I did notice is like, I got immediately reactive, I started to feel very defensive. And I think this goes back to, maybe this is core as well for a lot of us who are neurodivergent, is not only that we need belonging, humans need belonging, absolutely, we need connection, we need to feel a part of. Like, that is just in our biology, in our genetic makeup. We need to feel seen, too. And I think that so often we do not feel seen, and we do feel overlooked, and we do feel like someone misses the mark of what we're trying to get across, or what we're trying to emphasize. And I know for me, that feeling is really where I shut down, that's really where I experience a lot of shame, that's really where I experience some self-loathing is when I'm trying to get a point across or where I'm trying to express myself. And it's just missing the mark, and the person is just not seeing it the way that I'm trying to communicate it. And I think that for me, that is a lot of, if we're talking about the autistic experience, a lot of what I'm experiencing in these moments when we're talking about RSD. MEGAN NEFF: We are experiencing the absence of being seen, of being missing. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: [CROSSTALK 00:27:28] situations, this can happen in appointments, this can happen in social experiences. MEGAN NEFF: I almost want to tease that out, but I mean, I think it is part of RSD, but that like experience of being misperceived. Something I've noticed, this is a clinical observation, I haven't necessarily seen research on this, but that I've noticed autistic people, many of them really don't like just the experience of being perceived, of knowing I can be perceived and knowing, you know, if I go on a walk someone can see me, if I am doing a performance, someone can see me, just see experience of being perceived. And I wonder how much of that… I mean, I think there's a lot of reasons for that. But I wonder how much of that goes back to like how frequently we are misperceived and how painful that is? PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, that makes sense to me. MEGAN NEFF: Just your reactivity makes sense too. Like, I was just thinking about like, how sad that is. Like, you went to this group because it was a place you do feel belonging. And then I know they weren't trying to tell you you're doing something bad, but I imagine that's kind of how you took it in to feel so unseen in that moment, when what you were getting out of the group was belonging, but then to be misperceived in your attempt to find connection and belonging. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I think it was like the situation, right? Like, I'm the moderator of All Things Private Practice. So, I set the stage, I set the tone, I create all the engagement, all the interaction, and I probably had a lead up to surgery of like, I'm going to be away from this group for a while because I'm having a throat surgery. I'm not going to participate, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then immediately, like, several hours after surgery, I'm like participating in said group. And people are probably coming from a place of like, "Oh, we're trying to look out for you, you said you were going to be recovering." So, I think it was an inability on my part to explain like, this is what I need right now. And I think that created this intense sensation of frustration. And like, I was not able to explicitly communicate my needs in that moment and just was hoping that people would just be like, "Yeah, let's talk about, you know, whatever." MEGAN NEFF: Which that's probably like a really powerful takeaway, right? That part of neurodivergent people finding belonging and feeling seen is the ability to articulate what we need, because what we need in any given moment might not be kind of the status quo. Like right now I need space, or right now I need a hug, or right now I need to engage in this digital conversation and that this is actually helpful for me. So, A, getting clarity about what our needs are and B, finding comfortable ways to communicate that. I think that absolutely wraps into the belonging conversation- PATRICK CASALE: For sure MEGAN NEFF: …of being seen. PATRICK CASALE: I want to model like, healthy communication around RSD as well, if you are okay with me sharing some behind the scenes of our friendship, and dynamic, and relationship. MEGAN NEFF: Sure. Yes. My anxiety just went up- PATRICK CASALE: Oh, no anxiety. MEGAN NEFF: …but like, I love this about [CROSSTALK 00:30:53]- PATRICK CASALE: I want to just like model it for people too. MEGAN NEFF: Okay. PATRICK CASALE: So, Megan, and I obviously share an Instagram account. And then we collaborate on posts for said podcast. MEGAN NEFF: Oh, my gosh. I almost texted you last night. Is this about last night? PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. But I want to frame it from last night's perspective to six months ago perspective. MEGAN NEFF: Okay. PATRICK CASALE: So, Megan's Instagram audience is significantly larger than my Instagram audience. It's a big source of your business and community. So, when we first started this podcast, we'd send collaboration invites, Megan would accept them. Well, half the time accept them, half the time not. MEGAN NEFF: Accept them on Fridays, I have a very specific schedule I stick to. PATRICK CASALE: And then she would remove herself from said collaboration. And I would get the notification like, Neurodivergent Insights has removed collaboration, whatever it says, And I'm like, "What the fuck?" And then I would say, "Okay, I respect Megan, and I appreciate our relationship. I cannot have this resentment/frustration or confusion." So, we talked about it. But I was definitely in RSD moment where I was like, Megan doesn't want to do this anymore together. I said something wrong. The video content isn't up to her standards, whatever the narrative was in my head, and then we talked about it. And you're like, "No, this is just how my brain works. And this is how I need my grid to look. And this is how I need my post to look." And I was like, "Oh, that makes a lot more sense. Like, it's not me, it's not us, we're still having a good podcast relationship and friendship." And that happened again last night. But I did not experience it the way I experienced it six months ago, because we talked about it. So, for those of you who are able to have these types of conversations, I think it's very useful in relationships, whether it be friendships, professional, intimate relationships. I think the struggle is for those of you who feel like you're not able to express this in a way where you're going to feel seen, heard, validated, or understood. And that's the part I would like to tease out too, is for those of you who feel like, I can't do that with people, I don't have access that way, or don't have the ability to communicate it in a way that's going to lead to feeling like we resolve these feelings or emotions. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely. First, I love that you brought that up part. Like I did. I almost texted you last night to explain because like my profile grid right now, it's like divergent conversations, the middle column, and, you know, I'm autistic, I like… So, I almost texted you that I was like, "Oh, I don't want him to think." Yeah. But I love that that came up. So, a term popped in my head when you were talking that just like came to me, relational reality testing. I think when we have RSD, that when we have those relationships that can sustain that we're going to be like, "Oh, this happened and I want to check in around it." Can be so helpful, not just for that relationship. But it starts creating, I guess, like evidence or a narrative of like, "Oh, right, my mind is not always telling me an accurate story, or a helpful story." And so having those experiences. And then so for those situations where there's not enough trust to do that relational reality testing, if we can and have done those in relationships that are safe enough, where there's enough trust to do that, I think we can draw on those moments of like, you know, this last week this happened and my mind started telling this story and I found out it was actually about them. Maybe something similar is happening here, so we can kind of talk yourself through that perspective, I guess that perspective taking or that reality testing of like, maybe it's not about me. Like, we need a Taylor Swift song that's like opposite of the problem is me to like maybe it's not me. We need some catchy like, maybe it's not me song out there. PATRICK CASALE: I love that. I think I like that term a lot too. And I think that's perfect to describe. And you talked about this last week where we were like, take a step back, be the detective, or the investigator, hear about your brain and what your brain and your thoughts are doing right. So, like, I think it's important to look at it that way. Also that it makes me divergent to another celebrity. I shot my shot for both of us with Chloe Hayden and her Instagram. She's an autistic celebrity, author, podcast host [INDISCERNIBLE 00:35:20]. Nevertheless, they responded, which I thought was really cool. And I was like, "Oh, man, maybe I can get them on his podcast." But sadly, not. Chloe's commitments take her away from- MEGAN NEFF: Did that activate your RSD? PATRICK CASALE: No, I never expected a response. So, it was actually like, "Oh, cool. At least you read this." I also shot my shot with Dr. Devin Price, have not heard back. MEGAN NEFF: Well, speaking of social media boundaries, he's someone who has really good boundaries. And so, like, actually, I think I was inspired by him. Like, I don't know if it's changed. But back when I was more on there, like he rarely had comments on if ever. I don't think he does DM so I'm not surprised we didn't hear back. And I think it's partly because of those rock solid boundaries that he models and has. PATRICK CASALE: Yep, I agree 100% because that's the message I got. DMs are not allowed to this account. So, you know, I will continue to try. MEGAN NEFF: Yes, probably, I would guess email would be [INDISCERNIBLE 00:36:30]. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I tried to find it, couldn't find that but- MEGAN NEFF: That's probably also smart. PATRICK CASALE: Boundaries are important. And I think that Megan is someone who really has good boundaries. Like your email, auto response, your social media comments turned off for the most part. Like, you are protecting yourself and your energy. And I think that that's a big part of this, right? So, the ability to take that step back, create the boundaries that work for you, remove the interactions that are causing you harm, or distress, and trying to figure out how to channel that energy, like you said, that excess energy that you can have when you're in this RSD space, because we do need to burn it off in some way. Otherwise, it can destroy you in those moments. And it can lead to impulsivity, it can lead to things that you would like to take back, it can lead to destruction in relationships too that you care about. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, it can. Yeah, yeah. That was a beautiful summary, like paragraph, and I kind of just want to end it there. But I feel like I'm going to ruin it, because I had a thought, I had an association. PATRICK CASALE: Go ahead. MEGAN NEFF: I think we often have to work through some of our RSD to be able to create boundaries. I think the reason I waited till I was absolutely burnt out, overwhelmed, and struggling with health before I put up boundaries was partly because of my RSD of like, but people will be upset, but I won't be accessible. But like, that made it hard for me to go into digital spaces with boundaries. Or I have to respond to every email, right? Like, because of the RSD. So, that's a tricky thing here. Boundaries are really helpful for RSD, but we have to work through a level of it to be able to cultivate those boundaries, or just get burnt out enough that like you're like, "Okay, fuck it, boundaries." PATRICK CASALE: That's where I got to. I mean, I learned some from you, you know, and your boundaries. But I got to, and I'm glad you just named that because that's honestly very, very important. It allows for us to not minimize the experience. Like, I think that you have to work through it to create the boundaries for sure, or be working on it. And you may be working on it, because like you said, you get to the place where it's like, "Fuck it, I don't care." And that's the place I got to for a while. And maybe that's the place I'm in is like when I meet with my therapist, she's like, "So, the ADHD part wants to create, create, create, the autistic part looks at the calendar and, you know, is already exhausted and frustrated about the planning." But then I got to this place where both parts had no interest in doing any of it. And I think that was the fuck it moment where it was like, "Yeah, I'm not I'm not responding to every DM, or consult request, or email anymore. I'm just going to respond with blanket statements or referrals outward because I just cannot do it. And it's unfortunate that so many of us have to get to that place, because there's so much connection, we talked about attachment systems last week with feeling useful, feeling responsive, having value based on feeling responsive or useful, working through that internalized sensation of I'm not going to be valuable, I'm not going to be useful, people aren't going to think of me, people aren't going to want to connect with me if I put these boundaries in place. So, it's a lot of unlearning. And it's a lot of healing when you're working through how to navigate this process. MEGAN NEFF: Absolutely, absolutely. If there is one gift to burnout, and I feel weird, calling it a gift, maybe growth edge to burnout, it is, if it propels you to build a life that works for you, right? Like so many of us, the life we're living doesn't work for us, and we get burnt out. And if the pattern is like, live that life, burnout, kind of recover, go back to that life. Like, that's just going to be a perpetual cycle. But if that burnout is the thing, that's fine. Like, okay, I've got to do something different here. And if that becomes the instigator for cultivating a life that works, and like boundaries are a big part of that, that is, yeah, I guess, kind of the gift of burnout. And again, I feel we're using any kind of gift language with burnout, because it's atrocious, but… PATRICK CASALE: I think it's illuminating in a lot of ways, though. I think it kind of is illuminating into what your next steps are, when you get to that level of burnout, where it's like, fuck it, I don't care anymore. I have to set these boundaries, otherwise, the results are XYZ. MEGAN NEFF: It's kind of like grief. Like, I think about those moments in life that break you wide open, which are those moments that invite you into transformation if you can accept that invitation. And like grief absolutely does that. I would say burnout also does that. PATRICK CASALE: Agreed. Well, I think that you just added to my summation perfectly. So, for those of you listening, lots of good takeaways here, and things that you can implement. I hope we answered the one question that we set out to answer- MEGAN NEFF: One of the questions we got to. PATRICK CASALE: DR. MEGAN NEFF: We start with the easy question and talk for an hour. Divergent Conversations is out every Friday on all major platforms and YouTube, and we will do part three, simultaneously. Goodbye.

If you've ever considered hosting your own retreats, this episode is a must! Host Kelley Stevens sits down with Patrick Casale, founder of All Things Private Practice, to uncover insights into running a successful retreat-based business. Patrick, an expert in serving neurodivergent LGBTQA and BIPOC communities, shares tips for profitable and memorable retreats. Learn about common mistakes to avoid, including the importance of social media presence, niche understanding, and unique value. With his expert guidance, you'll gain the confidence to dive into the world of retreat hosting, ensuring that your next one is a resounding success. And if you are still uneasy about stepping out of your comfort zone by the end of this episode, heed Patrick's advice to “doubt yourself and do it anyway.” In This Episode: Hosting successful retreats Ensuring profitability for your retreat-based business Understanding your niche and target audience Avoiding common pitfalls while running retreats Using social media to engage with your audience Believing in your own value to get ticket sales Highlights: (0:59) – Patrick's introduction (5:22) – Patrick shares his journey and current process for managing successful retreats (12:54) – How to ensure that you are profitable while running a retreat-based business (15:44) – Three common mistakes therapists make hosting retreats for the first time (19:35) – Using social media to build and engage with your audience (25:17) – The importance of believing in your own value rather than relying on your guest speakers' audience and reputation to sell tickets (36:41) – Understanding your customer avatar and niche (43:11) – How to attend one of Patrick's upcoming retreats (45:53) – Kelley answers a listener's question about the best way to communicate limited availability to potential clients References: EventBrite → https://www.eventbrite.com/ Onsite Workshops → https://onsiteworkshops.com/ Get 2 months FREE with Simple Practice → https://partners.simplepractice.com/tppp Ask Kelley Anything → (805) 243-8241 This podcast is produced and managed by Jenga Creative → jengacreative.com

In this episode, I provide an in depth discussion of how I target market via social media, including selecting platforms, hashtags, and the best times to post. I also share my unique way of target marketing in the community.It may sound strange, but a hobby of mine is reading about business growth strategies. Ever since I started my practice, I scheduled time to learn about marketing, systems, organization, and business planning and growth. It has become a passion of mine, and while I am not a coach, and I don't have a practice growth course to sell, I do love sharing what I know. As a former teacher, this is just part of who I am, and while I have been told not to give so much away for free, I truly enjoy learning from others, sharing what I've learned, and seeing therapists succeed. We deserve to make a good living too, and we can all success together. I'm happy to do my part and share what I've learned with you.  My goal for this series is to share from one to clinician to another, the strategies and skills that I have learned through running my practice, my continuing education business, coordinating workshops with hundreds of attendees, building a community, and owning a podcast. I hope you find it helpful, and I'm glad you're here. Interview with Lisa Savinon.This episode does not offer CE credit.Therapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education. Check out our website, and here is one easy to save link that has everything we offer.

Our guest today is Jessica VerBout, LMFT-S, CST, and she comes to us from Minnesota. Jessica is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Supervisor and an AASECT Certified Sex Therapist. If you work with couples, this episode is for you! Have you ever worked with a couple that struggles with getting on the same page with sex and intimacy? Maybe one partner expresses a desire for more sex and the other is all touched out at the end of the day? If so, you're in the right place, as we discuss all things desire discrepancy! Jessica shares the difference between arousal and desire, common myths about desire, including some that may surprise you, how to work with desire discrepancy in session, specific tools and techniques, and resources for those that want to learn more. She also talks us through the process of becoming a certified sex therapist and shares her current session rate for sex therapy. Interview with Lisa Savinon.Click here to learn more about getting NBCC approved CE credit for this episode.Learning ObjectivesUnderstand the difference between desire and arousalIdentify factors that lead couples to seek counseling for desire discrepancyDevelop appropriate questions to ask during intake for clients seeking desire discrepancy treatmentUnderstand desire response patterns and apply them in desire discrepancy treatmentIdentify common desire response patternsTherapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education. Check out our website, and here is one easy to save link that has everything we offer.

Impostor Syndrome, Small Business Startup Fears, And All Things Private Practice. This episode touches on all of these things and more. During Episode 100 of All Things Private Practice, Kelley Stevens, LMFT of "The Private Practice Pro" and I reflect back on our Private Practice Startup Journeys. We discuss: How to choose your niche and attract your ideal clients Our own impostor syndrome stories and struggles, and how we worked through them How to show up in the content creation space, and how to monetize your therapy skills The things that grad school didn't teach us about owning our own businesses Techniques and strategies on how to get started, get out of your own way, and embrace the entrepreneurial journey More about Kelley: Kelley Stevens LMFT is a private practice consultant. She teaches therapists how to launch, build, and expand private practices. You can learn more about her online courses at www.theprivatepracticepro.com. ✨ All Things Private Practice Would Like to Offer Thanks to Our Sponsors: The Receptionist for iPad & Thrizer!

While you may think this episode is just for school counselors, it actually has something for everyone. We can all relate to the experience of leaving, or wanting to leave, a stressful job with unrealistic expectations that we have long since outgrown, and in this episode 5 therapists sit down together to discuss why they left, what they're doing now, and how they did it. They share their recommendations for transitioning into private practice and have a very frank conversation about money and fees. This is a don't miss episode for anyone considering making the jump to private practice, especially school counselors and community mental health workers. Join me and my guests, Amy Barton, LPC-S, Jan Osgood, Registered Mental Health Counselor Intern, Amanda Spencer, LICSW, and LeAnna Coulter, LPC-S, for a conversation about career change, life transitions, and finding your passion. Interview with Lisa Savinon.This episode does not offer CE credit.Therapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education. Check out our website, and here is one easy to save link that has everything we offer.

Today's guest is Dr. Jessica Endres, Ph.D, and we are talking about dissociation, Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), and childhood trauma. Not only do we discuss DID, but we also look at how dissociation can show up in other diagnoses, such as ADHD, OCD, and even eating disorders. We also take an in depth look at the treatment process, assessments and questionnaires, the myths of working with this population, and how DID may not present quite in the way you think it does. This is an episode really is for every clinician, and it's something we all need to know. Due to the topics addressed in these two episodes, please keep the potential for triggering in mind. Episode 58 is part one of a two part episode, and the second part follows in episode 59. So, get ready for two really great episodes! Interview with Lisa Savinon Click here to learn more about getting NBCC approved CE credit for this episode.Learning Objectives​Identify risk factors for the development of Dissociative Identity DisorderUnderstand the difference between dissociation as a symptom and dissociation as a disorderDevelop awareness of common assessment and questionnaires used to evaluate dissociationIdentify when to refer a client for evaluation and seek consultation and trainingTherapeutic Perspective has been approved by NBCC as an Approved Continuing Education Provider, ACEP No. 7087. Programs that do not qualify for NBCC credit are clearly identified. Therapeutic Perspective is solely responsible for all aspects of the programs.Therapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education. Check out our website, and here is one easy to save link that has everything we offer.

Today's guest is Dr. Jessica Endres, Ph.D, and we are talking about dissociation, Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID), and childhood trauma. Not only do we discuss DID, but we also look at how dissociation can show up in other diagnoses, such as ADHD, OCD, and even eating disorders. We also take an in depth look at the treatment process, assessments and questionnaires, the myths of working with this population, and how DID may not present quite in the way you think it does. This is an episode really is for every clinician, and it's something we all need to know. Due to the topics addressed in these two episodes, please keep the potential for triggering in mind. Episode 58 is part one of a two part episode, and the second part follows in episode 59. So, get ready for two really great episodes! Interview with Lisa SavinonClick here to learn more about getting NBCC approved CE credit for this episode.Learning Objectives​Identify risk factors for the development of Dissociative Identity DisorderUnderstand the difference between dissociation as a symptom and dissociation as a disorderDevelop awareness of common assessment and questionnaires used to evaluate dissociationIdentify when to refer a client for evaluation and seek consultation and trainingTherapeutic Perspective has been approved by NBCC as an Approved Continuing Education Provider, ACEP No. 7087. Programs that do not qualify for NBCC credit are clearly identified. Therapeutic Perspective is solely responsible for all aspects of the programs.Therapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education. Check out our website, and here is one easy to save link that has everything we offer.

Welcome solo and group practice owners! We are Liath Dalton and Evan Dumas, your co-hosts of Group Practice Tech. In our latest episode, we talk with Patrick Casale from All Things Private Practice about leading with intentionality in group practice.  We discuss intentions behind starting a group practice; skills that going into being a good leader and practice owner; moving forward from mistakes; making values-based decisions; encouraging job satisfaction and preventing burnout; having hard conversations; being open to healthy conflict and constructive criticism; being willing to delegate; adding administrative support; and what systems, policies, and procedures to have in place when starting a group. Listen here: https://personcenteredtech.com/group/podcast/ For more, visit our website. Guest Bio Patrick Casale is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist in Asheville, NC.. He is the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling. Patrick works as a Private Practice Coach and Strategist, and is also a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, Retreat Planner, and the host of All Things Private Practice Podcast. He has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists. Patrick is a passionate advocate, reducing shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their Authenticity. He loves good coffee, craft beer, playing soccer, and traveling the world. Resources and how to connect with Patrick All Things Private Practice Podcast Private Practice Retreats for Therapist Entrepreneurs Patrick's Facebook Group on Private Practice Building All Things Private Practice Instagram All Things Private Practice website PCT Resources PCT's Group Practice Care Premium service with direct support & consultation service, Group Practice Office Hours, for group practice leaders plus Assignable staff HIPAA Security Awareness: Remote Workspaces training for all team members Access to Remote Workspace Center with step-by-step tutorials & registration forms for securing documenting Remote Workspaces Assignable staff HIPAA Security Awareness: Bring Your Own Device training + access to Device Security Center with step-by-step device-specific tutorials & registration forms for securing documenting personal & practice-provided devices PCT's HIPAA Risk Analysis & Risk Mitigation Planning service for mental health group practices -- care for your practice using our supportive, shame-free risk analysis and mitigation planning service. You'll have your Risk Analysis done within 2 hours, performed by a PCT consultant, using a tool built specifically for mental health group practice, and a mitigation checklist to help you reduce your risks.

Why is building a supportive network of mental health therapists so crucial for your professional growth, self-care, and overall well-being? What are the key steps to establish and maintain a supportive community?MEET Lisa SavinonAfter completing her bachelor's in psychology, Lisa worked as an elementary teacher while completing her master's in counseling. After completing her master's, Lisa initially worked as an elementary school counselor and then transitioned to secondary school counseling. During her time as a school counselor, Lisa began working as a play therapist in an agency setting and decided to take the leap into full-time private practice. Years before the pandemic, Lisa moved her in-person practice to full telehealth and has nevergone back. Through her work with children and families, she noticed the need for trauma counselors. Lisa began working with adult survivors of childhood abuse, neglect, and abandonment, and sexual trauma survivors. Lisa is trained in EMDR, Brainspotting, Somatic Trauma Therapy, Polyvagal, and attachment theories. She is also certified in DBT and a Registered Yoga Teacher. Lisa is licensed in Texas, Colorado, and Nevada, and is a Florida Out of State Registered Telehealth Provider. Because of her passion for continuingeducation, Lisa began learning about the continuing education field and recently bought Therapeutic Perspective a podcast and NBCC-approved continuing education provider.Find out more at Vibe Counseling and Wellness and connect with Lisa on, Instagram & FacebookUse Coupon Code holisticpodcast for 10% Off Our $69.99 Unlimited NBCC CE Plan at Therapeutic PerspectiveLink to the “All Things Private Practice,” course for anyone that is brand new to private practice or planning to start one!Join the Therapeutic Perspective FB Community & The Therapeutic Perspective For EducatorsIN THIS PODCAST:Addressing the issue of isolation in private practice 5:27Self-care when dealing with difficult cases 10:41Resources for therapists to stay more connected 18:00Addressing The Issue Of Isolation In Private PracticeFinding non-traditional methods of networkingWhy is it so important to be a part of a community when you are in private practice?Learning and growing in a communityWays to cultivate connectionSelf-Care When Dealing With Difficult CasesWhat is somatic therapy?How to set strict boundaries with work-life balanceResources For Therapists To Stay More ConnectedWhat is The Therapeutic Perspective?How to find in-person groupsCreating your own community with like-minded peopleThe importance of making time to connect with othersConnect With MeInstagram @holisticcounselingpodcast

Want to learn the ins and outs of private practice ownership? Maybe you are teetering on the edge of going out on your own and need a little help with decision making. In this episode, five therapists sit down together to discuss private practice ownership. From practice scaling to marketing and side hustles to expanding, we cover it all. Joining us for this episode, we have Cameron Schober, LMFT-S, LPC-S (The Hope Place), Cameisha Brewer, Ed.S, LPC (Cameisha Brewer Consulting), Tryna Jackson, LPC- Associate, supervised by Casey Davids, M.Ed., LPC-S, (New Vibes Therapy), and Amy Barton, LPC-S (Hope and Harmony Counseling). Together, we talk through our whys for opening a practice, how we have grown and expanded over the years, our favorite marketing techniques, and what we've learned along the way. This is a must listen episode! Interview with Lisa SavinonThis episode does not offer CE credit. Therapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education. Check out our website, and here is one easy to save link that has everything we offer.

Therapeutic Perspective welcomes the new owner and host of the Therapeutic Perspective Podcast, Lisa Savinon! Lisa talks about her fully telehealth private practice and her doctoral studies, also sharing that this podcast will continue to offer NBCC-approved continuing education courses! In this week's episode, Lauren Hawkins, MA, LPC, NCC is our guest. Lauren talks us through the relationship between climate change and mental health. She discusses the impact of climate change and Eco- Anxiety on clients and shares her favorite tools to use in session. She also discusses signs to watch for in session and how counselors can begin their advocacy journey. Lauren published a manuscript in the Journal of Counselor Leadership and Advocacy and will be presenting at the NBCC Bridging the Gap Symposium in Atlanta, Georgia. Interview with Lisa SavinonClick here to learn more about getting NBCC approved CE credit for this episode.Learning ObjectivesWhat Ecoanxiety isHow Ecoanxiety impacts clientsHow to assist clients with evaluating their own wellnessThe counselors role in climate change advocacyTherapeutic Perspective has been approved by NBCC as an Approved Continuing Education Provider, ACEP No. 7087. Programs that do not qualify for NBCC credit are clearly identified. Therapeutic Perspective is solely responsible for all aspects of the programs.Therapeutic Perspective is an NBCC approved CE provider, podcast, virtual clinician community, and more. We provide engaging, evidence based NBCC approved continuing education and current, on trend practice building support and podcast episodes. We also give back to the community by offering a variety of free tools for clinicians, including a free interactive clinician community and free virtual NBCC approved CEs. Get all of our latest news, be the first to know about new episodes, and stay connected with us through our Insta.New to practice or soon to be a practice owner? Check out our All Things Private Practice course.Therapeutic Perspective: Community, Collaboration, & Continuing Education.

Hey Group Practice Listeners! Do you feel left out of the world regarding life and business? Societal standards cover the instances that are normal for neurodivergence. Understanding how your brain works are vital to express yourself in the industry.    We have Patrick Casale, the Owner of the All Things Private Practice. As a licensed Mental Health & Addiction therapist, he understands what it means to be a neurodivergent person and what he goes through in entrepreneurship. He will help us recognize the complexity of the struggles of a neurodivergent person.     Episode Highlights:  Why does it feel like torture to have timely chaos as an entrepreneur?  How can virtual assistants help you in managing bursts of ideas? What is a neurodivergent person, and what struggles do they have in business?  When can the crash of neuro processes disconnect people from recharging? How can balance help neurodivergence low energy flow and manage exhaustion? How can embracing authenticity bring you, ideal clients?     To connect with Mr. Patrick Casale: You can email him at patrick@casalecoaching.com  Follow him on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/allthingsprivatepractice/  Listen to his podcast at https://www.allthingspractice.com/all-things-private-practice-podcast  Visit his Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/groups/privatepracticebuilding/?ref=share  Or check out his website at https://www.allthingspractice.com/  This episode is sponsored by TherapyNotes. TherapyNotes is an EHR software that helps behavioral health professionals manage their practice with confidence and efficiency. I use TherapyNotes in my own group practice and love its amazing support team, billing features, and scheduling capabilities. It serves us well as a large group practice owner.   Do you ever wish for a financial therapist who could relieve you from the last few months of bookkeeping, talk you off the edge when you're running into issues with Quickbooks, or help you work through a profit plan for growth? GreenOak Accounting does just that! GreenOak Accounting is an accounting firm that specializes in working with group practices. Their value goes WAY beyond bookkeeping; they can help you get on track for financial success. Schedule a free consultation by going to http://greenoakaccounting.com/tgpe  

Have you ever felt like there was some big mystery that you could never solve as to why you acted and thought the way you did? Maybe you were told that you are neurodivergent but struggle to understand what that means for you. Do you feel tired of masking and don't know where to find a voice that will speak out, be supportive, and educate about neurodivergence? This episode is for you. Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode: Understand what it means to be autistic and how it can be easily misdiagnosed and misunderstood. Identify the many ways in which autism shows up in a person and its diversity. Understand what it means to mask and how this reflects in and shifts the dynamics of relationships. In this episode, you'll hear from Dr. Megan Anna Neff, Psychologist, and Patrick Casale, MA, LCMHC, LCAS, 2 Autistic-ADHDer Therapists, and see what this podcast has in store for you.   Transcript MEGAN NEFF: Hey, I'm Dr. Neff, I'm an autistic, ADHD psychologist. PATRICK CASALE: And I'm Patrick Casale, I'm an autistic, ADHD psychotherapist. And this is Divergent Conversations. And we are really happy to start this podcast together. So, Megan, episode one, we've been talking about this on Instagram and are making this a reality. So, do you want to take over and just kind of tell everyone what we're doing here? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, so we have gotten to know each other through, we recorded two podcasts together on your podcast. And then through messages, realized that it felt like we had a lot to talk about, specifically, around autism and ADHD. And we wanted to create a space where we could have more of those conversations. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and I think that's the really important part for our audience is to have those conversations. Megan is going to talk a little bit about all the content that she creates and puts out on her Instagram, and all the resources, and the things that she does.  And it's really important to also be able to have authentic, real conversations that our audience can listen to and participate in. And we want you all to be listening and just feeling like there's a place for you and there's a safe space for you because we realize so often that we get so much feedback about the work that we put out and it's just really important for us.  So, Megan, did you want to talk a little bit about what you're doing behind the scenes, outside of this podcast? MEGAN NEFF: Sure. I think my mic, okay. Okay, yes, I do. But so, a little bit of context for my life. Do you like how I need to nail down the prompt there a little bit more? Like Patrick, that's too broad of a question. What am I doing here?  PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, a little- MEGAN NEFF: I think it'd be context for my life. Actually, I had that thought as we were, like, starting this episode, and even as you were like, Megan Anna, do you want to tell our audience what we're here about. I had that like moment of freeze, of like, "Oh, shit. Like, this is the kind of thing I haven't pre-scripted it, this is a summary statement, how am I going to summarize, like how this came to be?"  So, it's interesting to be in this moment with you. We're creating a frame, but it's not yet established. And I'm noticing that autistic part of me is craving like, okay, what's the frames? What's the rules? What are we talking about here? So, that's my interpersonal in the moment divergent thought.  Back to your question, what's my context? So, my context, I live in the Northwest in the United States, in Oregon. I have a small private practice where I work primarily with neurodivergent adults and I do some autism and ADHD assessments. I think I'm one of a small handful of neurodivergent-affirming assessors in the States. It's a slightly different assessment process.  And then I create content on Instagram, mostly educational content. Neurodivergent Insights is my handle over there.  Part of what I've been noticing I'm longing for and one of the reasons I'm really excited for this project to get started, is that a lot of what I do is education. And the things that really get me excited is where I'm talking more vulnerably about the experience of being an autistic ADHD human. And I think that's what I noted in the conversations we've had in the past is, it felt like we could go there pretty easily. And so that's what I'm hoping for this project is that we're able to grapple with both the joy, and the grief, and the complexity of what it means to be a neurodivergent human on this earth. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I love that. And I appreciate you also naming your vulnerability in the moment because I think that's going to be an important part of this process of like, yeah, I need the prompt and I need it to be concrete right now.  And it's so interesting how we are processing this experience very differently in the moment because as someone who… let me circle back and backtrack, I will give some context now. I am in the southeast in Asheville, North Carolina, originally from upstate New York. I own a group practice here, Resilient Mind Counseling, made up predominantly of neurodivergent therapists, and prescribers, and entrepreneurs. We specialize in ADHD, and autism, as well as the LGBTQ community.  And then I also own All Things Private Practice, which is a private practice coaching business where I help therapists start and grow their businesses throughout the country and have a podcast, the All Things Private Practice Podcast, and host domestic and entrepreneurial international retreats.  I notice as I'm talking right now, I'm like, "Ooh, do I even know my context or my bio?" I hate bios. So anyway, I think that, you know, the two episodes that you've come on my podcast and we've talked about our own experiences for me have been really freeing because it's really enjoyable to talk with someone who gets it. And we can almost, like, read and pick up off of each other's energy and experience.  And I remember the last episode you were on with me where you looked at me and you stopped talking, and you were like, "Wow, this is really fucking dark right now." And I think what happened in the moment because I've been getting feedback about that episode recently of like, "Oh, my God, it wasn't dark at all, it was so validating, it was so helpful."  I think what was happening is we were picking up on each other's vulnerabilities. And we were really absorbing the pain, and the grief, and the struggle that we both experience on a daily basis. And even though we were putting the information out there very succinctly, and very real, and authentically, like, I think it was the energy that was being transferred back and forth is what we were experiencing that day, perhaps, and I'm excited to see where this goes.  And you mentioned to me on Instagram, like, this has to be real, like this cannot be cookie cutter. Like, I want deep conversation, I want real, authentic relationship. And I look into our lives and other neurodivergent folks who come on the podcast as guests really being able to be vulnerable and share their stories, too. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's something you and I have talked about in our conversations is, we crave place for complexity, place for nuance. And I hear a lot of people talking about that these days, that with so much communication kind of gravitating towards social media and these online spaces, I think we are losing the ability for some of those more complex, nuanced conversations.  And when it comes to neurodivergence, it is a really complex experience. And so, we have to have space for this complicated, like, what is the word I'm looking for? Paradoxical. Like, when you're trying to hold to things intention, we need space for this sort of paradoxical conversations. They're hard to have, you know, in a 90-second reel, or a single post, or even a blog post, it can be a bit complicated to try and host that sort of nuance. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's so hard to capture in those moments because things can be misinterpreted if you're [INDISCERNIBLE 00:07:32] a 90-second reel. You can only put so much information into that. And it's so easy to pick something like that apart, and to really have longer conversations, and really get into some things that are really deep. And like you said, paradoxical. There's a lot of, all things can be true in a lot of these conversations and I think that that can be really challenging too, to try to make sense of.  And I want to give some background on both of our, you know, stories as autistic, ADHD people before even delving into the mental health component, and the entrepreneurial component. Like, life has been pretty hard in a lot of ways for both of us. And, you know, like Megan just said, there's challenges moment by moment, and a lot of these days, and just trying to figure out how you're feeling, and what you're experiencing, what's coming up and reacting appropriately in those moments is quite challenging.  So, you know, I am a late-diagnosed autistic adult who was diagnosed last year after kind of having plenty of suspicion most of my life. And after telling most of my close friends and family, they were not surprised. But I certainly was.  And Megan and I have talked about grief before in terms of diagnosis, and it was challenging. And I think it was also liberating and that feels paradoxical in a lot of ways. MEGAN NEFF: That's so well said. I had such a similar experience around… Well, I think at first came to liberation for me. And for me, this is a very familiar story, especially, for autistic adults. And I see this a lot, particularly, among autistic moms, is that it's after a child's diagnosis that we discover ourselves. And that was very much my story.  And at first, it was so liberating because I'd been in-depth therapy for about four years and I had probably 100 questions or mysteries, that frankly, I was working to come to acceptance of, I will never know why I'm the way that I am. So, I was working to accept that my existence was a mystery. And then what fell into my lap was this one thing that explained all the mysteries and that is such an empowering, freeing, liberating experience. And then came the grief. Like, so the law aberration, and then the like, oh, wait, these are permanent limits, this fatigue it's probably not going to go anywhere anytime soon.  And holding the both of that has been so important for my journey. And I think you and I are both staunchly in the neurodivergent affirming world. I think it can be a little bit harder to talk about the grief, and still sound affirming or be affirming. But I think it's deeply affirming to honor both experiences. PATRICK CASALE: I completely agree. And I think that is one of those things that feels really, really challenging to make sense of and to discuss openly and freely. And, you know, to honor other experiences, too.  And I just know that my diagnosis came with grief immediately where I was just like, "Oh, well, this could have explained a lot when I was growing up had I known and had my parents ever decided to pursue any sort of support." Which they did not.  And then it came with a lot of questioning and then a lot of putting things together like, "Oh, that makes sense. Ooh, my Thai Beanie Baby and Garfield collection at an early age makes a lot of sense now."  And, you know, I think I see myself like really struggling in the social aspect of all of this in terms of where things ended up landing for me and just realizing like, that's why it's been so hard to make so many friendships and so hard to feel connected. And like you were saying, like searching for your arrival point. I often thought that like, "What the hell is wrong with me? Why can't I connect with people? Like, I know, people care about me, and they love me, and they tell me this, and I can make sense of that rationally. But I can't feel it, I can't absorb it." And I often don't feel that that feeling in a way that is also shared.  And, you know, I always made sense of the ADHD part. And I think that society does a good job of kind of helping cishet white men come to terms with being ADHD. Like, it's like almost expected in a way at times, of like, yeah, you're a young white man. Like, you have all this energy and like, this is just who you are. And it's so much more complex than that. And also true to some degree, like majority of our research is done on white men and boys in particular.  And, you know, I think that this last year has been really freeing because now I can say to myself, like, I understand my energy limits, I understand what I do, and don't want to socialize and who I want to socialize with. I understand that I'm going be using sensory or soothing tools most of the time when I'm socializing. And I just have to really be aware of where my energy goes. And I also know, like, you said, like, oh, this is lifelong. Like, okay, this is something that I'm going to be managing and struggling with throughout the duration of my life. And I think that's hard to still come to terms with at times. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. This is kind of a random association to something you said. But you mentioned kind of the cultural script about being a white cishet, ADHD male. And also, thinking about the fact that you are a late-in-life diagnosed white cishet, autistic man. Some of the people I work with that struggle the most with diagnosis and with imposter syndrome are late in life diagnosed white cishet men because like, for me, I feel like, well, of course, I wasn't identified. I'm a woman, I present in these other like, non-stereotypical ways. So, when you can have something to point to of like, it makes sense I'm late identified, I think in some ways, I mean, there's other challenges that come with that for sure. But it makes sense of the later diagnosis.  I also feel like sometimes I have to catch myself of, it's like there's a split that happens of like, genderqueer, BIPOC women autism, like, and then those white cis men who get the diagnosis early. And so, then it's like, I don't know. I don't know if you've felt tension around that. But it's something I've been thinking about lately of partly the split, and I don't even like how I always talk about it because I realize I talk about it as if white cishet men with autism, wow, that was a word slip, autistic men have some kind of privilege as if they aren't also experiencing a lot of complexity around this. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, and this is why we started this podcast because this… my thought process right now around my response is complicated. And it's so interesting because as someone who was late diagnosed, not knowing this throughout most of my life, you know, I don't think I would have ever, you know, had any thought or knowledge that I could fall into, you know, the neurodiversity, you know, marginalized community. I don't think even, you know, I pass, obviously, very well, in most instances, and I didn't have to think about it, you know? I don't think I had to feel forced into thinking about identity because I have so much privilege. And it's so complicated because I also struggled so fucking much growing up. And childhood was hard. Adolescence was hard. And adulthood was hard.  But I know that it's harder for a lot of people. And I think that makes it challenging to carry both and to really conceptualize both are true. And again, lots of paradoxes here and just, yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's challenging. And it's heavy. It's just heavy.  MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. PATRICK CASALE: And, yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry.  MEGAN NEFF: Well, I was just going to jump in, like, this is part of the complexity of identity, right? Like, both you and we're part of a neuro minority and a lot of our pain is associated with that. We are also very, very privileged within our neuro-minority group, right? We're both entrepreneurs, we're both white. Like, I identify as genderqueer, it's… that could be a whole other podcast. I'm attached to the idea of being an autistic woman and I identify more as agender.  But I have like, het or I'm in a cishet partnership. And I'm in a cishet partnership and I am cis passing and cis presenting. So, I've got a ton of privilege around, like, I've got cishet privilege, white privilege, economic privilege.  So, we're in this space where we're very privileged within our neuro-minority group. And then within society, we also have this marginalized experience, and to be able to speak to both of those experiences, honor both of those, I think, I know that my privilege identities provide so much buffer from my more marginalized identities. And I think it's really important to talk about that, so much of autistic advocacy space is dominated by white privileged people who aren't considering the complexity around that. So, yeah, here we are episode one. And we've kind of tripped into this huge conversation, PATRICK CASALE: Which is exactly, again, I want to just say this is what we want because staying above the surface doesn't work for either of us, and artificiality doesn't work. And it's so challenging to just not have real-depth conversation too. And we can also say that if we were recording prior to recording, you would have seen that Megan and I were using artificial intelligence to talk about a weird children's book that I had it write today and all sorts of other shit. So, like, you know, rabbit holes galore.  But nevertheless, you know, I think it's important to just really name what you just named, and we'll continue to advocate and we'll continue to show up in honor and listen to people whose voices really matter. And we want to have a lot of those folks on this podcast, too.  When you messaged me, originally, we were talking about this idea. And I think you said something that really stood out to me, which was something like, "I'll bring the chaos and you'll help organize it." And I feel like that could definitely be the tagline here. But it's so interesting how, you know, sometimes my autistic self like really is dominant. And other times ADHD is like, nope, I'm here like, this is my show. So, can you talk a little bit about that? MEGAN NEFF: First of all, it's so funny. Okay, so I like Carl Jung, who's a psycho-analytic person, and he talks about the collective energy or the collective unconscious. And right before you said the thing about the chaos in the order, I was having the thought, because you were like, pulling us back out of this kind of complex puddle that I'd let us do. And you're giving like bird eye view, and I was like, "Oh, this is the chaos order thing." And then you mentioned it, so… PATRICK CASALE: I just bought one of my staff who is a bit young and therapist and psychoanalyst union tarot cards and union socks for our holiday party that we just had, just wanted to name that.  MEGAN NEFF: That's- PATRICK CASALE: So, Zach if you ever listen to this, you're welcome. MEGAN NEFF: That's a good gift. PATRICK CASALE: So, anyway, the chaos and order piece and the organization of the chaos because I think that can flip flop all the time, right? Like, because there are definitely things that I really struggled with structure and orderliness around. And there are lots of people in my life who are like, they have spreadsheets for their spreadsheets and they're very happy about this. And I cannot make sense of that. Like, my brain doesn't work that way. Spreadsheets freak me out. But I know how helpful they can be. And I'm just curious about your processes in terms of when you've said that to me and just in general. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, well, I mean, you were even surprised. I think, partly, I took a screenshot of my computer and I had, you know, like, 15 browsers open reaction.  PATRICK CASALE: Visceral reaction. MEGAN NEFF: uh-huh (affirmative), uh-huh (affirmative). It's interesting, I think I present to the world more organized and perhaps more autistic than I am… like, my work process is very ADHD, which I'm sure is part of my stress. Like, if you opened up my Canva, which is where I make all my infographics, like, it is just a mess, there's no order to it, which makes it really hard to find like templates or whatnot.  So, my process is pretty disorganized. I tend to somehow be able to wrap it up into a way that I think, like, when I present a infographic or a blog post, I think it has some order to it. But the behind the scenes is just like a messy closet of like whirlwind, which I'm sure contributes to my stress. And I wish I had the executive functioning to know how to create those systems, but that is not my strength. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I appreciate you naming that. And those are the things that I feel like are my strengths. And then I have this system where internal chaos, it's more like my ideas are all in my head, but I never map them out. And I lose things or lose track of things so often. And it's so challenging. And I'm so thankful for the folks in my life who are either admin assistants, or virtual assistants, or the people who help me with those processes. And I just really struggle with it.  But everything in my office right now has its place and is very orderly and is very clean. And if I walk into my wife's craft room right now, I would have almost a mini panic attack. So, I struggle with just stuff being everywhere, visually. And that is really overwhelming to me.  But other than that, like, everything is very rigid in my thinking. And it's just interesting to see. You know, I think the ADHD parts of myself for entrepreneurial success a lot because I think that's when my creativity really starts to take over is when that part of my brain is really stimulated, and that part of me is just like. But then I also struggle with the fact that I will definitely hyper-fixate, and lose track of time, and lose track of things. And then all of a sudden, I don't even know what the fuck I was doing for the last hour. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, which that experience, right, can either feel so good or so terrible, probably depending on what's grabbed our attention for the hour. Like, I hate the feeling of wasting time. I think it's one of the worst feelings in the world. So, if it's been something like bad it feels terrible. And it's almost like I want to figure out how do I get that time back? I think it's just part of being really existential. And I see this a lot in autistic ADHD people of, I'm very aware I'm going to die, and so, I'm very aware, like, if I just wasted an hour scrolling, that's an hour of my life I'm not getting back. PATRICK CASALE: Megan, I almost messaged you about this the other night. Like, it was like 3:00 am. And I was thinking to myself, but like, if I go to sleep now, that's an hour lost, right? Like, what if this is really important? What if this show that I really want to watch is really important, and very aware of like, okay, I have less time going forward. I have less time going forward. And I'm thinking about that all the fucking time. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah. I'm curious what it is about autistic ADHD mindset. I notice we tend to do that more. Like, I know, for me, I definitely have a scarcity mindset when it comes to time and I imagine partly it's because my resources, my energy resources, my executive functioning resources feel scarce. I also imagine it's more than that, but it's certainly something I've noticed being more common among this group. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, it's like a video, game, lifeforce in a way, you know, while it gets depleted, you realize like, I have less and less ability, I have less and less capability right now. And I think that, if you're hyper-focusing or just very aware of how depleted you get, and how often you get depleted, and just know how valuable it is when you're feeling okay, or you're feeling good, or you're feeling just able to complete the task on your to do list like, I don't want to waste that. And those moments can be fleeting and it can be really challenging to kind of regenerate that energy again. MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: I think that before we started you were talking about my throat and my surgery and saying, like, "I don't want to waste this resource that we have right now." And you know, it's just that feeling of like, there's this urgency in a way. And I agree with you about the timeliness thing, that's really a struggle for me.  Just thinking out loud, you know, about what we want to offer people who are going to be listening going forward. I mean, what are your thoughts on kind of what you want to offer this community, and who's going to be listening to this podcast? MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, I hope that we can offer a space where there's some recognition. I think, even thinking back to the two podcasts we recorded on your podcast and the comments that I've gotten on Instagram, and that you've gotten a lot of those comments, the ones that felt really meaningful were around like, "Oh, either I feel really recognized in this or this helps to give me language around this experience I'm having."  I think, there are so many experiences around the autistic ADHD experience that can feel really isolating, that can induce a lot of shame. So, I think giving it space, like breathing space, to talk about some of these things so that people feel less alone can be more gentle with themselves, is my hope. I think part of that will involve public learning, which terrifies me like, I'm already catching my brain ruminating on the conversation we just had around identity and privilege because it's such a sensitive topic. And I'm like, oh, shoot, like, what did I say? How are the ways that this… or maybe I wasn't as careful in my speech as I could have been, or this could be experienced by a listener? But I think, for us to do the kind of podcast we're wanting to do, being okay with public learning and with diving into that complexity, which sounds, frankly, kind of terrifying and enlivening at the same time. But I think that will be an element of what we're doing here. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I couldn't agree with everything you just said more than that. And there's going to be a lot of moments where there's going to be public learning. And I think whenever you're talking about just people, and struggle, and the complexity behind multiply marginalized identity, there's always room to grow and learn. And I just hope that we will continue to do that, and amplify voices of people who also are parts of community that we do not exist in, and just really making sure that we are trying to the best that we can to just show up and to honor space.  And I don't think that people will agree with everything that we have to say about our experiences, either, you know? And I think that's a part of identity. And I hope that we're able to, like you said, just referencing people reaching out to us privately about either your work that you're doing on your Instagram, or our podcast episodes, or just whatever we've got going on to help people validate and affirm because so many people just either don't have language or experience, or just don't feel supported, or safe enough to talk about experience. And I think that's why we ultimately decided we wanted to do this.  And I hope that, you know, it allows people to feel like even if they can unmask by themselves while listening, or it gives a little bit of liberation in a way, or it leads to late adult diagnosis, if that's something you're interested in, whatever it feels like that allows you to really align with who you are, and your identity, I think is really important here. MEGAN NEFF: I like how you said that, yeah. PATRICK CASALE: And I think going forward, you know, just trying to talk about how we're doing too while we're going through this process, you know, it's interesting to co-host something you're going to learn a lot about each other along the way and it's just an interesting back and forth process. And I love having conversation like this. And I also overthink conversation afterwards where I'm like, "How did I come across? Like, was I a douchebag that entire time? Did I overthink this or say too much?" MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. I mean, and like, that's that classic masking self, right? I always must say this, someday I'm going to learn how to actually say it. But that experience of like going over past conversations with a fine, okay, a fine comb tooth? What am I trying to say?  PATRICK CASALE: A fine tooth comb. MEGAN NEFF: A fine tooth comb. I can never say that. Like, when you go over that past conversation with a fine tooth comb of like, okay, what did I say? How could it have been interpreted? I'm that anxious ruminating. That is so pervasive among high maskers. I mean, that, until I understood what was happening, I spent so many hours of my life doing that, I still do that. And I'm sure I'll do that with this podcast. But I do notice I do a lot less of it now that I feel like I'm living a less masked version of myself. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I like that you name that for sure. I just want to thank everyone for listening to episode number one. And we are going to continue this process and just learn and grow as we go. And I think that this is going to be a really exciting journey to go on together. MEGAN NEFF: I agree. You're looking at me like I should chime in here. PATRICK CASALE: This is what I was talking about. It was like how do we close episode one? And that's what I'm thinking about right now as I'm talking, so like my words are coming out faster than my thoughts. MEGAN NEFF: Have you always been bad at goodbyes. This is like an autistic thing. I really [INDISCERNIBLE 00:31:55] goodbyes.  PATRICK CASALE: Yeah. I'm [CROSSTALK 00:31:57].  MEGAN NEFF: We just like end and have it be like a really autistic goodbye, where we don't have a greeting, we don't have an ending, it's just bye. PATRICK CASALE: I kind of like that because, my God every social situation I've ever been in has ended like that. And it's always like, how the fuck do I get out of here before I can [INDISCERNIBLE 00:32:18] people can make eye contact with me or before like I have to say goodbye. MEGAN NEFF: Or they ask for a hug.  PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, they want…  MEGAN NEFF: Yeah, yeah.  PATRICK CASALE: Then I have to read, do I handshake, do I hug? [CROSSTALK 00:32:28] Do we just look at each other and nod? I mean, it's… MEGAN NEFF: Yeah. I just always awkwardly leave and avoid the goodbye. PATRICK CASALE: Yeah, I mean, I do that now. And I think I used to like linger in the space of like, "Oh my God, I feel like I need to say goodbye. I don't want to say it. I want to leave. I feel bad leaving." So much internal dialogue, for sure. So… MEGAN NEFF: Maybe our sign-off can be something like a place where we don't do awkward goodbyes or a place where we do, do awkward goodbyes, goodbye. PATRICK CASALE: So yeah, I like that a lot. So, a place where we do awkward goodbyes, goodbye. And then that could just be it. MEGAN NEFF: I like it. Let's do it. PATRICK CASALE: All right, well, a place where neurodivergent and I just said the name of the podcast wrong. This is a good glimpse into the creation world. But Divergent Conversations podcast, a place where we do awkward goodbyes, goodbye!

During this episode, I talk with Patrick Casale, LCMHC, LCAS (he/him) about suicide. Patrick and I share our experiences as therapists and as individuals who have struggled with suicidal thoughts. We are raw and honest in this conversation and hold nothing back. We share what has been helpful for us in our journeys and how you can help clients when they express suicidal thoughts. Patrick is the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling. Patrick works as a Private Practice Coach and Strategist, and is also a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, Retreat Planner, and Podcast Host. He has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists.Patrick is a passionate advocate, reducing shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their authenticity.OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:Patrick's websiteFree Private Practice Start Up Guide Jennifer Agee coaching pageCounseling Community Facebook communityCounseling Community InstagramAlaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023

During this episode, I talk with Patrick Casale, LCMHC, LCAS (he/him) about Imposter Syndrome. Patrick is the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling. Patrick works as a Private Practice Coach and Strategist, and is also a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, Retreat Planner, and Podcast Host. He has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists.Patrick is a passionate advocate, reducing shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their AuthenticityOFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:Patrick's websiteFree Private Practice Start Up Guide Counseling Community TikTokJennifer Agee coaching pageCounseling Community Facebook communityCounseling Community InstagramAlaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023

Authenticity and vulnerability are big buzzwords in the current social and psychological space. But how do these two things facilitate growth? Joining Kendra Perry today is Patrick Casale. Patrick is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist and the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling. He is passionate about reducing shame and stigma around mental health and helping mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and embrace their authenticity. In this episode, Patrick breaks down the concepts around authenticity and vulnerability within the context of growing and levelling up in business such as imposter syndrome and money trauma. Don't miss out on valuable insights on overcoming self-doubt and owning your true self by tuning in.https://kendraperry.net/episode136Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review & share! https://kendraperry.net/

Patrick is an https://resilientmindcounseling.com/patrick-casale/ (LCMHC and LCAS, who specializes in helping people with addiction problems in North Carolina). He's also a https://www.allthingspractice.com/ (Private Practice Coach and the founder of All Things Private Practice. ) If you are a private practice therapist, you might consider specializing in one specific area at some point. In this interview, Patrick shares some misconceptions about niching, how to find and develop your niche in private practice, as well as some useful tips for transitioning to group practice. --- Learn more about Business School for Therapists: https://news.zynnyme.com/business-school/ (news.zynnyme.com/business-school/) Website: https://www.zynnyme.com/ (zynnyme.com) Blog: https://www.zynnyme.com/blog (zynnyme.com/blog) Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kellyandmiranda (facebook.com/kellyandmiranda) Instagram: http://instagram.com/zynnyme/ (instagram.com/zynnyme/) LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/2456942/ (linkedin.com/company/2456942/) Pinterest: https://pinterest.com/zynnyme/ (pinterest.com/zynnyme/) Check out more episodes of the Starting a Counseling Practice Success Stories podcast on these platforms + leave a review letting us know what you think: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/starting-a-counseling-practice-with-kelly/id1398391639 (Apple Podcasts) https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5iY2FzdC5mbS9zdGFydGluZy1hLWNvdW5zZWxpbmctcHJhY3RpY2UtenlubnltZQ (Google Podcasts) https://open.spotify.com/show/7K8TQ13vJL4L3IvtWLLXV3 (Spotify)

During this episode, TJ Walsh (he/him), LPC NCC CCTP Clini-Coach and I talk very openly and honestly about our experiences of burnout and the tools and rituals we use to get our energy back in balance. This episode is raw, real and offers real solutions. TJ Walsh is an internationally exhibited artist who has nurtured creativity in heARTs and minds for decades. He regularly writes and speaks about art, culture, faith & mental health and is an expert in human relationships, human creativity, the creative process, fear, and procrastination. TJ owns a group private practice and is on faculty at Eastern University, where he provides supervision for doctoral candidates. Over the past 20 years, TJ has worked at the colorful intersection of creativity, art, therapy, and education. He is an innovative, out-of-the-box, creative clinician turned coach (Clini-Coach®) and Licensed Professional Counselor who helps others nurture their creative life so that they can be whole heARTed life healers. He currently lives in Philadelphia, PA, with his partner and two sons, where together they share 65 houseplants and a very robust and growing collection of artwork from emerging Philadelphia-based artists.TOPICS IN THIS EPISODE:Paying the price of getting behind the burnout cue ballBurnout tells for therapists Questioning our worth and valueManaging your energy to reduce burnoutChildhood narratives that affect our views of “self-sacrifice”Therapy groups, the good, the bad and the ugly when you're burned outUsing different types of creativity and rituals to support life balanceHow to Etch A Sketch the “should”Getting in touch with your playful parts of self to realign  OFFERS & HELPFUL LINKS:·       TJ's website·       Jennifer Agee coaching page·       Counseling Community Facebook community·       Counseling Community Instagram·       Alaskan Cruise: Experiential Therapeutic Intervention Training for Therapists June 3-10, 2023·       Cabo, Mexico: Dreamer's Retreat for Entrepreneurial Therapists October 6-8, 2022Spain: Private Practice Entrepreneurial Retreat April 24-29, 2023 co-hosted with All Things Private Practice

Imposter syndrome is something that impacts nearly every entrepreneur I know. But it's not just about feeling like you're not worthy to be called an expert in your field. Imposter syndrome shows up in so many different ways.   This week on the podcast, imposter syndrome expert Patrick Casale and I are talking about imposter syndrome for neurodivergent folks, being in alignment with authenticity, how to let go of some of the negative messaging we hold onto, and creating movement to remain in creativity.   Patrick is right there with us in the neurodivergent world, so of course when I called him an expert at the start of this episode, I could feel him cringe. This is something we all work on, forever, and it's about having the right tools in your toolbox to take back your power and get out of your own head.   Whether you think you have imposter syndrome or not, I encourage you to listen in this week. Because we all have stories we tell ourselves and it's time to let them go. About Patrick Casale: Patrick Casale is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist. He is the owner of All Things Private Practice. He is a Private Practice Coach and Strategist. He is a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, and Podcast Host. He has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists. Patrick is a passionate advocate, reducing the shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their Authenticity. Connect with Patrick on LinkedIn and follow him on Instagram.   Links and Resources: All Things Private Practice podcast All Things Private Practice Time Stamps: [1:05] - What happens when you build sustainable systems [3:35] - About Patrick [4:33] - Imposter syndrome is something we all go through as entrepreneurs [5:23] - Perfectionism is a big part of imposter syndrome [8:23] - Neurodivergents will be hypervigilant about what you're putting out there [9:24] - How attachment trauma and messaging we receive as kids factor in [11:45] - Put it out into the world anyway [12:48] - When we start out, the people who see our stuff is really connected to us and they're very supportive [13:40] - If someone takes time out of their day to tell you negative feedback, it says more about them [15:40] - We're out of alignment with being authentic [18:45] - What's helpful for some is offensive to others…and who cares [19:30] - “Why would anyone hire me”  [20:24] - Be a contributor, not a guru [23:25] - Don't get propped up by good feedback or pulled down by negative feedback [24:18] - Give yourself permission to fail [27:00] - Have fun with your imposter syndrome [29:25] - There's a time you need a cocoon and other times you need to get out of the house 30:08 - Don't resist the flow state; go with it [31:48] - Two additional considerations [32:45] - Build the plane as you fly it - you don't need to have every piece of the puzzle put together before you put it out to the world [34:12] - With external accountability, there's enough pressure to finish the thing

About Today's Guest:Patrick Casale is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist in Asheville, NC.. He is the owner of All Things Private Practice and Resilient Mind Counseling.  Patrick works as a Private Practice Coach and Strategist and is also a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, Retreat Planner, and Podcast Host. He has been featured on Private Practice Startup, Abundance Practice Building, Therapy Reimagined, Not Your Typical Psychotherapist, Selling The Couch, and Modern Therapists.  Patrick is a passionate advocate, of reducing the shame and stigma of mental health, as well as impostor syndrome.  Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their Authenticity.  You can find Patrick... On his Website On Instagram In the All Things Private Practice Therapy Facebook Group On the All Things Private Practice Podcast Credits, links & other things: Intro & Outro Music: DriftMaster by Shane Ivers - https://www.silvermansound.com Mental Status IG: @mentalstatuspod Talk to me: mentalstatuspod [at] gmail.com Apply to be a guest on this show: Interviewee Interest form Submit an anonymous burnout story: Lister-Submitted Story Form Support the show: ways to support

In this 10 part series we will have conversations with couples and individuals who continue to navigate the Pandemic either in partnership or without partnership and to dive deeper into how relationships are handling this ongoing pandemic as we enter the second full year. This weeks couple is Patrick and Ariel. They are a married couple from Asheville who share a love of travel and their two dogs. Patrick Casale is a Licensed Clinical Mental Health and Addictions Therapist. He is the owner of All Things Private Practice. He is a Private Practice Coach, Strategist and a Group Practice Owner, Motivational Speaker, and Podcast Host. Patrick helps mental health entrepreneurs break the mold, work through their fears and insecurities, and to embrace their authenticity. Ariel Casale is a supervisor with the Federal Probations officer over the court services unit, a polymer clay earring designer, an actress, and signer. The Pandemic obviously effected their ability to connect together outside of their home, but listen in as the couple discusses everything from how they work together, how the pandemic motivated them to grow, and what makes them authentic to who they are and how they show up to support one another in those moments. Interested in learning more about Patrick's Private Practice Building? https://www.allthingspractice.com/ (Check out his website here. ) Want to check out and buy Ariel's earrings?https://livauskendai-co.myshopify.com/ ( Visit her website here.) Want more Reading Aloud Podcast? (https://www.patreon.com/ReadingAloudPodcast (Become a member of our Pateron))! Check us out at https://readingaloud.captivate.fm (https://readingaloud.captivate.fm) (Subscribe, Download, and Review) Follow along on this journey through life on https://www.instagram.com/readingaloudpodcast/ (Instagram) or (https://www.facebook.com/ReadingAloudPodcast (facebook)) at @readingaloudpodcast or send us a message at readingaloudlove@gmail.com Thanks for listening!