Podcasts about natalie it

Natalie Franke, a dynamic entrepreneur, community builder, and the brilliant author behind the highly acclaimed book "Built to Belong," joins us today for an insightful conversation. Natalie's remarkable career has been a rollercoaster ride, featuring both incredible highs and profound challenges. As a teenager grappling with mental health issues, she discovered a transformative outlet through photography, which eventually paved the way for her remarkable journey to entrepreneurship and building a six-figure business. However, Natalie quickly recognized the isolating nature of running a business and set out on a mission to create a thriving community for fellow entrepreneurs. This audacious endeavor materialized into the awe-inspiring Rising Tide, a non-profit networking business that garnered an astonishing following around the nation.    In this discussion, Natalie fearlessly challenges the prevailing myths that hold countless people back from reaching their full potential in life, community, and business. With remarkable insights, she dares to rewrite the narrative, reminding us that it's never too late to embark on a new venture, asking for help is an act of strength rather than weakness, and ego has no place in the art of community building. Natalie's unwavering emphasis on shared values and the paramount importance of making a meaningful impact sets the stage for a paradigm shift in how we approach success.   Prepare to be enthralled as Natalie delves into the significance of play and offers an exciting glimpse into her forthcoming book, "Gutsy." Described as "a kick in the pants," this compelling work promises to ignite the spark of courage and resilience within its readers. This episode is an exceptional opportunity to gain priceless insights, challenge the status quo, and embrace the transformative power of community. Quotes “Play has a profound impact on the brain…when's the last time you played? With no one watching?” (9:16-9:49 | Lauren) “People always worry, ‘Can I start something new? Is it too late...You are never too old… You can go after it and reinvent yourself as many times as you want.” (14:08-14:41 | Natalie) “It's up to you and all of us are one decision away from an entirely different life, one choice away from a reality that doesn't exist for us today. We just have to take that step.” (14:42-14:53 | Natalie) “Even though my business was thriving…I felt deeply isolated.” (17:48-17:55 | Natalie) “Your community is only as good as its leaders, and its leaders are built by its members.” (23:02-23:09 | Natalie)   “You've got to rewrite so much of what you've been taught…the faster you fail, the quicker you succeed.” (35:03-35:18 | Natalie) “No company I've ever worked for talks about their community the way that HoneyBook employees do…as though they are the heroes the world needs.” (45:53-46:07 | Natalie) Links Connect with Natalie Franke: Website: https://nataliefranke.com/ The Book: https://nataliefranke.com/gutsy   Instagram: @forwardfemale @hernextbigmove Website: www.forwardfemale.com Join Community: https://theforwardfemale.mn.co/ Schedule Consultation: https://calendly.com/the-forward-female/discovery-call HoneyBook: http://share.honeybook.com/forwardfemale Email Us: hello@forwardfemale.com   Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

Alyssa: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Women of Ambition podcast. I'm your host, Alyssa Calder Hulme , and today we are going to be beginning a little bit of a shift in our podcast experience together where we've been examining ambition, how women experience that and talk about that. And we're gonna continue on that same path, but I really want to start looking at how culture, ethnicity, religion, all these different things that influence our socialization, affect the way that we think about ambition and manifest it. And then some of the barriers that make it harder to be maybe. Who we want to be. And so today we're gonna look at a little bit a personal experiences of ambition, certainly, but also looking at it within the context of being a Latina in the United States. Today our guest is Natalie Alhonte . [00:01:00] Natalie was born in Bogota, Columbia and moved to the US when she was six months old. During her upbringing, she always had a passion for languages, storytelling, culture, and intersection of public policy and entrepreneurship. She moved to Washington, DC in 2001 to attend American University in their school of international service. After graduating, she began a career in global public affairs, including leading the work. For clients looking to build campaigns around ideas, not just products. After that, she moved to New York City to build a social good incubator working directly with Ariana Huffington, while in New York. She also hired, she was also hired to assist with all aspects of communication for the Brazilian government ahead of the World Cup and the Rio Olympics. Wow. Natalie then returned to Washington to help build the Latin American. Latin America Center at the Atlantic Council for her former boss, Peter. Natalie: Schechter Alyssa: Schechter. Okay, thank you. She's now the director of strategy for the Latin America Practice [00:02:00] Group at Wilkie. Also founded by a Latin. Latina and an investor in immigrant foods, a gastro advocacy restaurant dedicated to celebrating the contribution of immigrants to the United States, and she resides in Salt Lake City, Utah. Not too far from me with her husband son, Sammy and their two dogs. Thank you so much for being here today, Natalie. Natalie: Thank you so much for having me, Alyssa. Alyssa: Sorry If I, I messed up some of those words there. Reading and podcasting at the same time is rough. I'm used to just kind of going off the cuff. Natalie: It's hard. There's a lot of tongue twisters Alyssa: I'm also very, very aware that you are trilingual, at least correct Portuguese, Spanish, and English, and so, I have very minuscule knowledge of those languages, but my pronunciation is horrible at this point. No. So please forgive me and correct me. Please correct me. Natalie: Yes, absolutely. I, yeah, we're here to learn from each other. [00:03:00] Absolutely. Yes. Alyssa: Well, thank you so much for being willing to come on the show and talk about just this complex world that, that you live in and that you navigate and that you're so knowledgeable about. So to start, this is our first question we always ask, do you consider yourself to be ambitious? Natalie: Oh, I love this question. And actually I think you know, when I received the invitation to be here with you today, it really set me on sort of a journey of sort of trying that word on. I think it's been a while since I've sort of categorized myself as ambitious, but, you know, really getting familiar with the, the definition and, and. To, its very core and maybe not so much of the archetypes that maybe we have associated with it. I would definitely claim it. I, I would also say I'm very driven a funny story about that. I actually, if I had a memoir, I think I would have. Titled it Driven because I learned to drive so late in life. I actually just learned [00:04:00] to drive six months ago after being, you know, a, a, a true and blue New Yorker. But yeah, so driven, ambitious are definitely things that I would say are part of, of who I am. Ambitious for myself, but also ambitious for others, I think is another thing that I would say. I, I'm one of those people who really. Get so much in really success and. I've seen other people accomplish things like finding their own voice and seeing what they're capable of as well. But the one caveat I would say about ambition is that I would say yes, ambition, but not at any cost. Hmm. I think this is the new, the new learning for being my life.  Especially as. I've become more multi-dimensional, becoming a mother becoming a wife, becoming, you know, trying to be a better friend and also just a better, you know, person who takes care of [00:05:00] myself is saying at ambition. But there has to be a very careful consideration about what the impact is on myself, on others.  And definitely growing up in New York where there was a little bit more of a cutthroat culture being on the other side of what ambition on the negative side can look like I've always really prided myself in and to, and not being that type of person who will use anything and everything to get ahead.  Despite sort of what the repercussions could be on others around me. Alyssa: No, I, I really appreciate you saying that. I've been obviously thinking about this word for a long time now. And I've been tinkering kind of with like another kind of nuance to this word where a lot of people associate ambition with like that competitiveness and like being willing to step on other people to [00:06:00] succeed. Especially cuz I, I've been reentering academia and so there is like a lot of competition. But. Valuing ambition for itself and valuing it for other people and having it be something that is in balance with other values like community and support and You know, your other values that can kind of balance it out, I think is a really, really important part to, to that aspect. So thank you for sharing that. It's interesting to hear a lot of guests come on the show and they're like, yeah, you know, you asked me to be, to come on and I didn't know how I felt about that word, or I'm a little uncomfortable. Calling myself that. And I thought about it and it, it actually fits really well. It's like, this is the why I'm like so interested in this word and this position cuz it's like there's so many layers to what it means and what it implies to people and relationally to other people. So like the part that I, that I'm tinkering with is [00:07:00] that, Ambition is like a drive to do or succeed that for whatever reason is beyond whatever is socially expected, given the context of wherever you're in. So your family, your community, your country, your socioeconomic status, like. There's some kind of a relative piece to that that is informed by who we are. And so that's why like talking about culture is so important because that's where you really learn your values, and that's kind of where all these things get put in reference. So I'm excited to dig into that more today. Natalie: Yes, me too. No, that, I think that sounds right, and I think you're right. Sometimes we have to go back to the very root of a word and really to really understand it because there has been, there are words that are becoming so polarizing and they're misused, and language really matters, you know? Mm-hmm. If if you have. Sort of a feeling about a word. I think it's important to go back and [00:08:00] say, is that really, is that how society, is that the messages that society has given me? Or is that really what, you know, is there a, a purity to that feeling? Is there something that's very connected to values that are part of that feeling? And I think with ambition, it's, you know, it really, to me at least, it's related to courage. And courage, right? It comes from the Latin heart, right cord, which is heart and Spanish. And when you think about how much courage it takes to put yourself in uncomfortable situations, the willingness, the discipline when it comes to self-talk to, to get, to go above what's expected of you.  I think it courage and, and sort of ambition or go hand in hand. Alyssa: Yeah, I would, I completely agree with that. It's hard and it, it does take that extra bravery piece for sure. Okay, so [00:09:00] let's talk about your. Beginnings with ambition as a child, as a teen, do you, do you see pieces of that coming through in your early life? Natalie: I, I, absolutely. So I think some of my family's favorite stories you know, about me are just about sort of that independent streak that I always had. Though, you know, in the Latin culture, we're very, we have, we're taught and socialized to be very different differential to our elders and mm-hmm to the people who have traditional relationships of power, sort of like teachers, et cetera.  I think my parents did a really great job not sort of oppressing that independent spunk and streak in me to let me be sort of who I was. And I think, you know, some examples they like to tell about this are I had a ice coffee stand. A lot of children had traditional lemonade stands, [00:10:00] but I realized that our house, I, you know, I grew up in Brooklyn and our house was. On the road to sort of main subway stop, and a lot of people would commute in the mornings to go to work. So in the summer, I used to wake up really early and we would brew fresh Colombian coffee and we would, I would go out with my little wooden table and I would sell ice, fresh ice coffee to the commuters as they would head to work.  And I tried to have partners, you know, friends on the block be there with me, but nobody had the the drive to be up at. 7:00 AM to do that with me so quickly. You know, there was a rotation of partners that would come and go and nobody would stick. So I really loved the feeling of being there, being useful and being reliable to my.  To, to my customers at a really, really young age. So that, I think it's, it's a fun story that [00:11:00] they tell, but I think that's definitely who I am. Someone who likes to be useful, have an impact and sort of doesn't really see anything as impossible for better or for worse. When I was 15, I started to sort of shift that I would say ambition to social good work. And I started an organization when I was 15 years old called Teens for Humanity. And it was dedicated to raising funds and supplies for developing world, especially Latin America given, you know, that my ties. So it was an incredible experience and I think. That's sort of those leadership skills that you start to learn that are inside of you you know, would just continue to grow. But it definitely never felt like anything was impossible. I just would see any task. And the world's my mom likes to say, the world's very small for me, and I feel like that's definitely been a part of[00:12:00] what's informed, sort of my decisions, my dreams, and my goals moving forward. Alyssa: Those are fantastic examples. Holy smokes. I love, I love to visualize you on the corner street hawking your iced coffee and then being in this teen for social justice, like, that's incredible. Natalie: Well, thank you. It, it's, it's been an incredible life and so far and I'm so glad to be able to, Talk about, tell my story because it reminds me of these things. You know, it's been a long time since I thought about them and really connected with them, but definitely inside of me lies a very, very ambitious little nine year old girl who never, who never went away, luckily. Alyssa: That's awesome. Okay, so, and then obviously you've had this like really incredible career path that we're gonna talk about now.  But have there been, like growing up, were there clashes with. Culturally I You're a first gener, not even a first generation or [00:13:00] what would you call yourself? An immigrant? Yeah. I, yeah, Natalie: I'm definitely an immigrant. I'm somewhere in between. Yeah, first gen. I think it's, I sort of, I relate a lot to first generation just because I spent so much of my life in the us.  And, but. Definitely my son likes to remind me that he's actually the only person born in the United States in our family, the point of pride for him. But yeah, I, I guess somewhere between first gen and, and immigrant. Mm-hmm. Alyssa: And so navigating kind of that, like that transitional space, were there clash points there? Were your parents just really supportive of you being yourself? What was that like as growing up? Natalie: So what's really interesting is that my mom comes from a, you know, medium sized town in Columbia, in the coffee region. Pretty, you know rural I think is the wrong word, but it's sort of like what you [00:14:00] would picture, like the Napa Valley of columbia, beautiful. Rolling mountains. It's, you know, just a beautiful scenery. And my dad was born in Staten Island New York. So he's a New Yorker and up to Jewish parents. Okay. So. In my house. It was a, there was lots of paradox and contradictions. Okay. And mixed signals. So, you know, very typical sort of multi cultural, multi dimensional story. So. I had, I'd say in my home, represented two cultures that were, they couldn't be more different in terms of the value system, styles of communication, sort of the way that sort of the worldview and they were all happening. In real time in my house growing up, I also had the benefit of growing up with my grandparents. My [00:15:00] Jewish grandparents lived living up one floor above us. Oh wow. So they had a lot of influence as well in, I would say on the second floor. But my mom ran our home like a Columbian embassy within our home. It was very I would say You know, the culture of Columbia was very present. It was in the food, it was in our traditions. It was in the way that she ensured that we were connected to our roots and we understood where we came from. And she just, it was. Really important to her that we felt fully Colombian. Instead of sort of half and half, we were 100% Colombian and 100% American at the same time. So I don't know what kind of math that adds up to, but that was sort of how, how I was raised.  And I would say that through [00:16:00] that it was, The ex, through that experiment, you would see that there was a lot of mixed messages about what success really looked like. And, and that also had to do with the extended family. So, you know, in my in my household, there was definite co cohesion. But I would say that when we would look at the extended family education was so important on the, you know, Jewish immigrant side and especially given the history. But then in Latin America it was much more about sort of the markers of success were about you know, physical beauty about thinness. About, you know, what, who were you in your social standing? Are you, are you going to be an eligible candidate for good marriage? It was a very mixed bag when it came to that, so there was a lot of pressure both on the side of.[00:17:00] You know, career side, but also on the family side, all happening, I would say a hundred percent volume all at once. So that was sort of the environment in which, you know, I was raised and it taught me to really decode and question mm-hmm. What my own values are, my own thinking. But it also taught me a lot about how strong that intergenerational sort of programming can be in our own lives. Mm-hmm. Alyssa: Wow. That sounds like quite the crucible for self-discovery and. Watching your parents, I would assume, navigate that with lots of other family members around, and then you getting to go and be your own person as well. Natalie: Absolutely. I think that it really wasn't until college, until that I had the vocabulary to understand what. What all of that, you know, all those mixed messages really meant. [00:18:00] And I had the privilege really of studying with, I would say one of the fathers of cultural anthropology, and his name was Dr. Weaver at American University. And he really taught. Us all about what culture shock looks like. Mm-hmm.  And how it's not just when you go abroad, but if you're living in a multicultural society. If you are multicultural, how the, how experiencing culture shock can really impact you and you're sort of psychological framework, long term and really all the resilience that it gives you. Because, you know, I, there's by no means do I want. You know, the takeaway to be like being multicultural actually is traumatic. It's not, I mean, it, it gives you so many magical powers. But at the same time, if you don't understand sort of the language around it it, it can. It can be challenging. And so I was grateful to have [00:19:00] the language around understanding and mapping culture and understanding the different components of what makes a culture. I think in the US we're not really even that aware that we have a culture. And so it always shocks people that we have one, but we do, you know, and, and I think that understanding what you know, what those components can really help us. Empowers us to be to, to take, to make the most out of being able to navigate many different cultures. Yeah. Alyssa: Thank you. One of the things that I really wanna focus on today is that kind of culture crossing. I, I'm calling it border crossing because we're talking to you, a Latina woman who literally crossed a border to come here. A lot of your work is international but also as a metaphor of navigating different spaces, navigating that liminal in between space.  [00:20:00] Maybe translating between two very different. Social, cultural, linguistical locations, value systems. That is, that I, I think of it as like a superpower in a way that clearly you had to earn and was a lot of work. But it gives you an ability to, like you're saying, see nuance navigate spaces, a code shift Mentally, linguistically, you know, so many, so many different things like that. So let's talk a little bit about how that has impacted your career and your work. I feel like every single point on your resume is a fantastic example of this. But is there, is there a space where you can kind of talk about that, that border crossing experience? Natalie: Absolutely, and I think you know, when I was in college I sort of I knew I wanted to do something international, and I knew that that was [00:21:00] what sparked my joy, was to learn about other cultures and to learn about other ways of life. And just had this insatiable hunger for international things. I mean music and, and food. And I, and I knew I had this ability to be a bridge because I had done it my whole life. I had. Acted that way since I could remember to really help. Sort of be an intermediary when maybe, you know, there's this image that I like where you're holding a beach ball and on the left side it's white and the right side it's black. And you know, both people are screaming at the top of their lungs that what? It's white or black and you're holding it at the middle. So you could sort of see the delineation of both. And that I think, has been a metaphor that I've sort of used throughout my life. And it also gave me the resilience to sort of enter into this. International relations space with global affairs [00:22:00] space, which traditionally is, there's a pretty high bar of entry into those spaces in DC and there's a lot of elitism associated with it. It's a lot about the connections of who you know and what private or prep school you went to and you know who you're father golfs with, and I came to DC with zero of those things, you know, absolutely none of them except all of the knowledge of the that my parents really gave me about my history and where I came from. And I remember. You know, I got hired by this very elite public affairs firm who worked on crisis communications, international campaigns, and really high stakes issues. And my first week just being completely overwhelmed by just how much I didn't know, even though I had already been in DC for four years and lived and breathed [00:23:00] it just. Felt completely like an imposter. And I know that this is something that comes up a lot here on the podcast. Yes, it does. Remember at that time I was working as an assistant to one of the lead partners and he he, I was in there talking about something and I think he said to me something like, you know, I don't want you scheduling me at this specific time. And I said, you know, okay. But he was very mad at me because I had made a mistake on his schedule, and he said I don't need, you're okay. And then I just looked at him and I said, no. I say okay, as if I understand the information. Mm-hmm. And one of the other senior partners heard it and like went running to say, actually, I think she's gonna survive. I had this grit inside of me. This fire. Good for you. So this senior partner tells that story a lot about, [00:24:00] you know, this the fire that it really takes. To be underestimated time and time and time again. And having to look in the eyes of the person that, or under that is your underestimate and not go down, but to just rise above. And it's just something that happens at a moment. But it is, I think, the most crucial thing that I learned because I learned that nothing defines me but me.  And if people don't really understand who I am and what are capable of, they just have to wait. They have and they will see and not just, you know, I think that it was, that is definitely a superpower that I got from being misunderstood. People never knew where, where to put me growing up. You know, she's not Latina, but she is, but she speaks Spanish, but she was born in Colombia, but she looks Russian. Like, who are you? What are you? So I was used to. Being misunderstood. And so I take it upon my speech to, to help people [00:25:00] really get to know who I am and what I'm capable of. And so those are the beginnings in public affairs. And just, I grew a lot by being myself. I didn't conform I would say in many ways, which unfortunately is, I think.  The story of what is asked of many people who are not traditional or underrepresented in some way. But I really pushed hard to, to go against the grain and there was a space for me to, to be myself. And as my sort of career progressed and the people within the firm saw how I was able to connect with clients. It almost created a boomerang effect where they started to respect me because they could see how I had the decoding gift that you were talking about where mm-hmm. I knew if there was someone who wants to go straight to business, you go straight to [00:26:00] business. If there was someone who wants to get to know you because there's a trust element that needed to happen before you jump straight in, you give them that. You're generous with yourself, you're generous with your time, and you allow them to get to know you on their time, not on what you expect is the timing that it should happen. And I think it was the. This sort of ability to understand those nuances that helped me continue to grow and to manage your position and then to be able to build my own things when I was at the Huffington Post and then being asked to come back to DC by that same senior partner who yell. To come back and help him build a a Latin America think tank in dc. The agility of being able to climb up and climb down constantly were I think things that really have served me well in my career. Alyssa: I love that example. That's so [00:27:00] fantastic. So, so many of the, the things that you just mentioned are topics that I've been thinking with. So that like being, being able to jump between places, but then also weaving between them to kind of create where you get to exist as yourself, even if other people. Can't place you like you're creating your own self. And then being, being a bridge maker and having it be this unique thing that you are bringing to the table because of your values and your, your upbringing and all these things that you have that. Actually helps you in your career and in your personal ambitions, but, but comes from like this culturally located place of community and nuance and like you are able to see and sense things that other people can't, who haven't had to stretch themselves really. Natalie: That's right. And yeah. Oh, and I think that obviously, you know [00:28:00] those are sort of the, the positive baggage that I bring to the table. But I, you know, there are also things that I struggle with and I think that those are also a big part of Understanding the, the importance of being humble, of looking at life as an eternal learner. Because you know, if you're trilingual, you're always gonna mess up a certain sentence or you're always going to like, make something feminine that's masculine and you, this is a life log. You're never gonna be fully fluent, in one language. So I think that's also helped me understand that To understand people, not just by how they communicate in maybe their second or third or fourth language. And, and to be humble about being able to learn from everyone. Cause I think that there's, I've been on the other side where I've seen microaggressions and I've seen people being [00:29:00] underestimated just because maybe English is their second language or they're not able to express as fluently as they can in their native language. So I think that's also the other side as, as well. Alyssa: So how, How do you build resilience to being complete, to being mis can't even think of the right word, but being misunderstood. Underestimated not being legible to people because they can't categorize you. I am sh I know from my personal, smaller experiences with that, that that's really exhausting. So, Can you speak to that a little bit? Natalie: Well, absolutely. I mean, obviously I don't wanna paint the situation with rose colored glasses, right? Because we look at the current state of sort of Latinas in the United States, right? And we see the the mount that we represent as it. Relates to the population versus positions of [00:30:00] leadership.  Looking at the C-Suite for example, I mean I wrote down, just jotted down these numbers just because I think they're so super important to talk about, but, you know, Latinos represent 62.5 million people, right? So that's 19% of the population. But when you look at the amount of people in senior leadership, I mean, it goes down. Substantially. So 2% of women are in senior leadership positions are in the board in the boardroom. And, and this are like Forbes, you know, the, the biggest company is ranked by Forbes and 1% if you look just at corporate boards and not at positions of leadership. So there are, there is a real problem, you know, in our society and, and in the way that the game is structured. For the ascension of Latinas. So I think that that's really important to say and[00:31:00] it's important to sort of, to look at what the, you know, kind of what's against us. So we're swimming upstream and mm-hmm. How exhausting it can be. So I would say like, kind of life. Taught me resilience. It it was every time I was not invited, you know, to a pitch meeting or that I had done all the work for and I had to advocate for myself to be there. Or when a client, you know, assumed something went wrong, but hadn't actually looked at his or her email to show that it was, it had been sent and he. These little things where people just automatically assume that you are the one that messed up because they haven't seen enough people that look or sound like you in positions of authority. There's just this thing that happens in their brain when things go wrong. And I think so it is sort of just life that. That teaches us to be resilient. But I think the other big thing, [00:32:00] and this definitely comes from the culture, is the sense of humor. You know, to, there's nothing that can break a tense and difficult moment that you know, nothing that can do that. Like a sense of humor. And that's something I learned from my culture and it's something that I take with me because. You know it, unless we are able to sort of laugh at these terrible things that happen, I mean, maybe not right away, but eventually with communities of people who have who have built things alongside us. I think it's really difficult and participating in spaces like this one, Alyssa, where you, that you're building where people can come and tell their story. I mean, these are the ways that we can sort of take a step back, realize that. What happens to us is not personal. It's not really about, though it feels so personal in the moment. It's not personal because it's a common experience that so many of us have, and you don't have to be, Latinas have experienced this, right? Mm-hmm. I'm sure if you have 10 women all around [00:33:00] in this, in this conversation with us, that everyone could tell a thousand stories just like mine. So I think that's also really important is to, to remind us that if we celebrate who we are, You know, the way my mom celebrated our culture and our house, if we celebrate who we are and somebody doesn't understand or value it, to know that the problems with them and not with us. It's not that our culture is somehow wrong, it's that person just hasn't had the pleasure of understanding our culture and getting to know it better. Alyssa: Thank you. I think that's, that's really true and it's again, how community fits into to achieving, to doing, to building whatever it is that we feel driven to do. And it's, it's such an essential part because. We can't do it alone. I dunno, maybe maybe [00:34:00] a white guy can do it alone. A straight white guy can do it alone, maybe. But more likely there's an invisible community that of support that is not being represented. But those of us who aren't in that dominant. Position of, of privilege and power. We need our community and we need that support to kind of get through it. And I love humor as one of the, one of the tools to, to healing and to health and normalizing something that we're being told is so abnormal. Natalie: Absolutely. Absolutely. Alyssa: Alright. So maybe let's talk a little bit more about the specific areas that you've worked in. You've done, so you've done crisis response work, like you said, you and we talked, mentioned briefly the World Cup and the Olympics. And you were also a TV commentator for us Latin American relations. So you're doing all of this [00:35:00] work with these different places and different value systems. How, like, like I just talking even politically about different countries and navigating those relationships what has that been like to hold maybe two value systems and have to like, make them legible to each other? Yeah, Natalie: no, I think that's a really, really good question. And, you know, I can talk a little bit first about the world cup and the Olympics work. So when I was in New York and I was a new mom I had. A conversation with a former colleague and you know, was really telling her about how burnt out I was feeling. I mean, one of the big characteristics of crisis communication is that you have to be on 24 7 and having to be a new mom. I really felt like it wasn't it wasn't a, I couldn't give 100%. To really anything [00:36:00] and I didn't feel like I was I felt like I was failing, you know? And, and I, I felt like I was sort of the reputation that I had as like the person that was always on it. I just couldn't be that person anymore. And, This friend said to me well, why don't you work with me on this project? The Brazil government is looking for someone to help promote these beautiful destinations in Brazil. And I said, oh my gosh, this sounds like the easiest job on earth. Like, why? You know, is this real? Is this real? Like, and so, well, of course, you know, nothing is ever as good as it sounds because. The largest protests in Brazilian in Brazil's history after the fall of the dictatorship were catalyzed by the overruns in the World Cup and the Olympics. And we were sort of the only us leg, arms and legs on the ground in many of [00:37:00] these spaces. And we thought we were gonna be there, you know, talking about beautiful beaches of Rio de Janeiro. But we were preparing like. Crisis communication decks and sort of media audits about what's being said. And I was accompanying a minister, the minister of sports minister towards them, to the editorial board meetings at the New York Times, at the Wall Street Journal to talk about, you know, stadiums and man, and why there is one and, and just, I had to fire a translator on the spot in one of those meetings because she was just translating the minister. With really just messing up the translation and just like these things, you know, I kept thinking, where's the fun? When is the fun gonna start? Cause this was not fun. This was way more difficult than I had imagined. But it was an amazing experience, of course, as everything is looking back, you know, really to understand. Sort of the power of civil society and having [00:38:00] their voice heard especially in democracies and how important those those protests were to Brazil. So that was a moment where I would say I was kind of thrown into the deep end into, in a really. Amazing moment in Brazil's history. And I think that has helped me really understand like the power of social media the power to, to create movements because WhatsApp and Twitter were so such a big part of kind of building that social movement and really understand the inner workings of a government a lot better. So that's definitely an example of, I would say where you, I I was definitely buckling my seatbelt in, in that situation, but it was, it was a really intense, but great time to learn. Mm-hmm. Alyssa: Sounds complicated and [00:39:00] exciting and exhausting all at once. Natalie: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. My Portuguese definitely got a lot better after that writing and reading a lot, and Portuguese and so that's always a great, a great outcome. Well, that's wonderful. Alyssa: So. If working in these different spaces with these different groups of people, do you see, do you see the nuance in, in value in maybe how ambition is perceived in different places in Latin America versus the United States? Can you talk a little bit about that, kind of maybe on a more broad level, and then if there is a gender component that you saw, I'd appreciate hearing your perspective. Natalie: Absolutely. Well, I think what's really interesting, and I think a lot of people consider themselves, you know, Latin Americanists They have trouble with Brazil. They have trouble sort of becoming a part of the ingroup in Brazil because the country of [00:40:00] Brazil is such a massive place and it's been sort of because it speaks Portuguese and speaks Spanish and sort of has a unique history and culture, it really is isolated. From the rest of the world. So the amount of, I would say trust that a person that is working in Brazil can can obtain just by understanding the culture, understanding the language, the basic customs is incredible. It's not the same as the rest of, of Latin American in many ways because it isn't Americanized. Mm-hmm. So like Columbia, we've always had a lot of connection. Mexico, you go to Mexico, there's always been a ton of connection. Between the United States and and you know, better and worse, right? There's been mm-hmm. Negative impacts that the US have ha has had, but also it's just, there's a very close relationship. Brazil is different. It's very isolated in many ways. So I would say that taking the time to really understand the culture, [00:41:00] and I was lucky, I studied abroad in Brazil. My husband is Brazilian, so that's another big component of understanding the culture. But. I think there is a, there's a coup, there's so many levels. I mean, you and I, you know, we were talking before about the sort of high context, low context cultures, the to be cultures, the to-do cultures, you know? Alyssa: Do you wanna share that a little bit? Because it, it fits so well with what I'm re learning and researching right now. Natalie: Yes. Yeah. So when I was you know, Learning more about cultural anthropology. I think one of the coolest ways and, and I think there's more contemporary work on this as well there's a book called The Culture Map that I think has gained a lot of popularity is really understanding different cultures and sort of where they fall on broad questions. And these two broad questions are, Sort of the, something called a high context culture in a low context culture or a to be or todo culture. So what that [00:42:00] means is you know, there are, if you're in a part of a to-do culture, it's really about efficiency. It's about sort of what you achieve. It's about sort of an individual perspective of achievement. And it's very low context, meaning that, Even if you were dropped in that country and you're doing business for the first time in that country and you were someone who sort of was pretty literal and direct, you would do really well in that country.  In terms of relationships as well, when you are looking at, you know, the US as a part of that, I would say Germany I think is a pretty, when we're looking at architecture, He's always sort of looked at at Switzerland. On the other side of that are the to be cultures or the high context cultures where these are cultures that have a lot of gray. Lines, there's a lot of subtexts, a lot of focus on [00:43:00] where, who are your, who is your family? You know, where did you sort of, where do you fall in like in sort of the social casts within a country. And those are the cultures where it takes a long time to really understand the nuance to be effective at communications because there's so many unwritten rules.  About what you can do and what you can't do. So I would say Brazil is very much, and all of Latin America is on that sort of the high context to to be scale. But Brazil, I would think, I think is at the very top of that because they have so much of their own way of develop of, you know, sort of. Their own rules and customs that are unique to Brazil. There's no other places that you'll be able to find it. And those who don't really understand the culture have a lot of trouble being effective in it. And those who take the [00:44:00] time, you know, even to learn to sort of basic Portuguese about the differences between the different regions, the history understanding where you give one kiss and where you give two; we use our small protocol type. Things, but they make a huge difference in a culture like that where your relationships and sort of who you are on that scale mean everything. And I think that it's important to say that both cultures are both humane and inhumane at the same time. Because in a to-do culture, it's all about. What you achieve, it's not really about who you are, but in a to be culture, it's really the hard part is social mobility. You know, if you're born into a certain class or a cast, you know it's hard to move up. It's hard to be seen as other because you are sort of as ascribed of value based on sort of where you fall in that. scale. So those are super important nuance I think that I try to keep in in mind when I [00:45:00] am doing business internationally. And where I, when I'm working, collaborating across borders is to really understand those nuances and to, to continue to learn. You know, one tip I always give to people is just do a Google search, A Google news search for that country.  The day before you talk to somebody from that country and see what's going on in the news. Take five minutes. I think as Americans we're, we're not really conditioned to do that. But it's, it just goes such a long way to be able to build relationships for those high context cultures when you at least take the time to know.  A little bit about what's going on, what's current, and ask questions and be curious. I think people, it really goes a long way to building those relationships. Yeah. Alyssa: That's so interesting. That's a really, really good tip. I'm wondering if, you know if you know the answer to this question, maybe you don't, but how the [00:46:00] different indigenous populations kind of affect. The differences in the regions. And then of course, you know how colonization has kind of shaped the culture of different countries and different regions. Can you speak to that at all? Natalie: I mean, there are, I can speak more in terms of the presence of sort of Generally right now that there's, yeah, I would say a moment where we are celebrating indigenous culture in a way that we really haven't before. I think that in our minds, we were all, we all felt very separate. You know, like we, we would learn about these indigenous cultures, the Inca, the Mayans, the Aztecs, and we would look at them. Right in Brazil UA Paraguay, and we would sort of look at and our, you know, our indigenous in the United States where We would see each of these cultures as a really, a small and isolated [00:47:00] pocket. But I think as people have studied them more, and I think John Zamo, if you haven't seen his sort of one man show when he talks about this, you know, 97% of the d of indigenous cultures from the top of the Americas to the very bottom. Is the same. So we have this unique shared culture. Though the co obviously there's nuances, but think that there was, it's a very sort of colonist and European mindset to see each of them as unique and separate because it takes away the power from the holistic sort of story about this continent and about sort of the indigenous culture. And I think some countries have been really great about conserving and celebrating the history. I think no cult culture has been great at it. I, I should say. But there, yes, yes. Let's be [00:48:00] clear. We've all been terrible, Alyssa: but we've all been terrible. Some have maybe been worse for longer. Natalie: Absolutely. And you know, you, if you look at, there's this beautiful museum in Mexico City called the Mu Museum of Anthropology. And it's this beautiful, giant, gorgeous museum dedicated to understanding the roots of the Mayan societies and really teaching an Aztec and really teaching people about that history. Our history, right? If, if you are a part of the Americas, it's, it's, it's a collective experience to understand who we are. And so I would love to see that in the United States, and there's a beautiful Smithsonian museum. But I don't think that we have this widespread understanding of how we connect in terms of our shared history with our indigenous people and. In some countries, like [00:49:00] if you look in the southern cone the eradication of the indigenous populations was. Almost absolute, you know, it's genocide. And so each of these countries has had their own unique story with, with sort of celebrating those roots or sweeping it under the rug, as I think probably happens a lot.  But it, in it is influenced, I mean, I think. Right now, I think it was a couple of years ago, the first time that Vogue, Mexico had an indigenous woman on the cover cause of Roma, the movie Roma. And I mean, it was a huge uproar. I mean, in a great way because. A lot of people didn't say, didn't realize we had never seen that before. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and the lack of social mobility I think has been, it's been really damaging. But I think that, you know, in terms of your question about sort of how that has [00:50:00] shaped our identity Countries that celebrate and understand those roots I think are much more connected to, to who we all are, you know, as a collective Americas and in Columbia, I can speak to that. There is this sort of movement now to Bring forward a lot of the replicas of indigenous jewelry. I know that not all of your readers can see it, but I'm actually wearing one right now where we have beautiful gold pieces in Columbia you know, it was called, right? Mm-hmm. Because of the gold. So much gold came from Columbia and the we're starting to to sort of assimilate that. That celebration of indigenous culture into you know, quote unquote mainstream, which was European culture for so long, and get curious and, and get, and I hope to see that [00:51:00] continue. I definitely don't think we're there by any means, but especially if you look at sort of political power, right? Mm-hmm. How, how European white male. It is. But there are, I think, beautiful social movements that are happening across the Americas to sort of tell those stories and to and to better understand them. Yeah. Thank you. Alyssa: Yeah, they're certainly a long way to go there, and I think we are better when we embrace our history and open our eyes to it because we have to be able to understand the ongoing effects. Of our, of my place. Like I have mostly colonizer ancestry and some indigenous ancestry. And it's, it's a lot to confront for myself and for my family. But denying that and pretending that I'm just here of my own volition is just, it's totally ignorant and it just perpetuates [00:52:00] ongoing harm, and I lose out on the beauty and the, the dreaming and the, the community and the connection and things that I, I am now being able to reincorporate with that, like wider, wider eyes, a wider embracive truth. Natalie: Absolutely. And, and we're so much better when we know our history, you know? Mm-hmm. And. I think our ancestors, they want us to know, they want us to know the history.  And because if we are, we stand on their shoulders. I think that's a really important thing to because I think so many of us, we have oppressive and oppressor oppressed And oppressor genetics. You know, and if we're, if you are on the America's continent, there's going to be, it's, it's a mixed bag. But I think the more we know, the more we don't repeat history hopefully.[00:53:00] Alyssa: Yeah. I'm with you there. And that's kind of where I'm coming at this project of ambition, of trying to figure out like, what does it mean to different people? What does it mean to different cultures? Is it. Competitive have to step on other people to achieve. Can it be something that it is communally beneficial? And I think it can, but we have to really unpack a lot of that, like generational trauma and colonizer mindset and the ignorance that we've allowed and supported and that we're all, you know, complicit into one degree or another. Cuz. There are a lot of toxic things that originally were really beautiful or, or are really healthy in other spaces that we can reincorporate and heal with and learn from. So thank you for sharing all of your experiences today. Oh, Natalie: it's my pleasure. It's been such a pleasure speaking with you today, and I think this project is such an [00:54:00] important one. I hope we'll all own the word ambition a little bit more in healthy way, in a good way, in a healthy way, Alyssa: in balance with our, our values and our community and all those things.  Absolutely. In closing, is there anything that you would like to say to ambitious Latinas out there speaking to them directly maybe? Natalie: Yes, Absolutely. I mean, I think that. The, the, our time is coming. I think if we just look at the demographics, if we look at sort of the amazing influence that we've been able to have on it, on this country as Latinos living in the us our time is coming to really to shine. So it's gonna be, It's gonna be upon us to be ready as, as that moment appears. And I just wanna give a huge shout out to Julissa ak, who's [00:55:00] a Read, who's a book that, who wrote a book called, you Sound like a White Girl. I'm currently reading that. I suggest it and I suggest America Ferreras Ted Talk so much for those who haven't listened to it, to really understand our superpower as Latinas.  And just, you know, thank you for having me here today. Alyssa: Thank you so much. Oh, so, so good. Do you have any current projects or things you wanna plug? I think you have a restaurant going on right now. Natalie: Yeah. So I am an investor in a restaurant in Washington DC called Immigrant Food. Our flagship is half a block from the White House, and obviously it wasn't a coincidence that we opened it during the Trump administration when there was so much negative rhetoric about immigrants forgetting that we are all immigrants if you're not indigenous. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we're all here. So no, definitely if you're in Washington DC check out immigrant food. Also if [00:56:00] you are you'd like to connect, so please feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn, Natalie ote on LinkedIn and just thank you so much for having me here. Awesome. Alyssa: Thank you. That is, that's a quite the, the delicious, ambitious little pump to end on. So thank you so much. And yeah, thank you. I am sure everyone is just gonna be so thrilled to listen to. So thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the Women of Ambition podcast. Natalie was such a fantastic guest. We covered so many different topics and ideas that I wanna continue to expand on and explore throughout our podcast time together, especially as we look at how social locations change the way we view the world, they inform our values and inform. What resources we have access to. So those are some of the things we're gonna continue to look at on the podcast. If you would like to read a transcription of the podcast or share it that way, I'm going to figure out a way to add the transcription to my [00:57:00] website, women of admission podcast.com. This will allow guests to go back and annotate and edit anything that they wanna clarify or comment on. So if that's helpful to you, please let me know. It is quite a labor. Of work to transcribe. So I'm gonna try and do that more moving forward if that is helpful to anybody out there. So just let me know, drop me a line if that's something that is beneficial. You can also interact more with the podcast on Instagram. My handle is Women of Admission podcast. So check us out there and we will continue to have some really awesome guests moving forward and some new and exciting things over the next couple of months. So look out for those. Thanks so much for listening.

This episode of the In The Club Podcast by Club Colors features Natalie Boyatt, Founder and CEO of Bevee. There's always that anxiety of having to carry something in a cardboard carrier that you may spill on yourself or another person.Natalie talks about how this ultimately led her to realize the necessity for a secure and compact carrier that can also house more than two drinks. She shares about creating a product that brings her joy while also facing the challenge of presenting a new idea to the market. HIGHLIGHTSThe different situations that led Natalie to BeveeBreaking into the promotional product space and being a woman in businessThe challenge of moving away from the norm with a new productThe most gratifying and difficult parts of Natalie's journey QUOTESMaking products with the commitment to make the world a better place - Natalie: "If anybody can live their best life, it doesn't have to be creating products, it could be whatever they have a passion about. I'm all about living an up-the-neck and happy life. We all have that option in front of us."Understand that the challenging phases of life lead you to the present - Natalie: "I think our life's journey is not meant to be all happiness. I think it's through some of those adversities and how you pivot, change, and deal with them, is what is meant to ultimately put you in your path, and then that's where you really find your true happiness."On selling a "new" product - Natalie: "It's the challenge of having to let the world know that there's a new concept. Everyone's used to walking into a Starbucks and getting those cardboard drink carriers. And so it's the same challenge that I'm now having to go through because I'm having to create the acceptance that there is an alternative." Connect with Natalie in the links below:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-boyatt-92959294/Website: https://bevee.com/ In the Club by Club Colors is sponsored by our proud partner:Maple Ridge Farms | mapleridge.com

In this episode of the Sidewalk Talk podcast, Traci is in conversation with Natalie Koussa, a trauma-sensitive visibility coach and podcast guesting strategist who supports high-integrity entrepreneurs to bring their work into the world in a bigger way. Traci and Natalie explore how Leadership Designs (a trauma-aware way of understanding how you move through the world, show up, create and lead from your core) can support us to understand our core needs, and the vulnerabilities of letting ourselves be seen, just as we are. This episode will be a balm for you if you're feeling the call to show up in your life in a bigger, more true-to-you way. Listen in, and let yourself come home to yourself. Episode Timeline [00:09] Intro  [00:57] Meet Natalie [3:43] What it means to be seen, just as you are [5:53] The role of relationships in helping us fully step into what we're here for  [10:00] The experience of living in a country that's not your own [11:22] Natalie's decision to leave her non-profit career  [13:58] The impact of the sudden loss of a colleague [19:10] The impact of trauma on how able we are to let ourselves be seen [26:40] The Leadership Designs as a way of understanding your core needs [29:30] Traci sharing her experience as a Visionary (her Leadership Design profile) [31:21] The characteristics of a Visionary [34:35] How can you invite in validation? (The Visionary's core need) [35:29] Experiences of the Sidewalk Talk volunteers [37:19] The Nurturer Leadership Design profile [38:55] Understanding what we have to offer, just as we are [44:29] Closing [45:45] Outro Resources Mentioned The Leadership Designs Assessment Standout Quotes “I want people to be seen just as they are, and I want them to feel safe in doing so.” (Natalie) “My intention is always that the people that I touch through my work feel closer to themselves than they did before.” (Natalie)  “This is kind of a constant, coming home to ourselves and learning ourselves and being with ourselves, including the bits of ourselves that we really don't want to be with.” (Natalie) “I think good relationships, wholesome relationships are about holding each other in our wholeness.” (Natalie) “(It's) about supporting people to reconnect with themselves in such a way that they're able to connect with others.” (Natalie) “I think what I'm pissed off about is that even in the personal growth space, there is this mould of the ideal person, and there's also this mould of the ideal growth person. And this idea that growing happens in this one particular way.” (Traci) “I think it's about really intentionally understanding what it is that we do offer when we are ourselves. So not trying to become a louder version or a shinier version, but what do we offer just as we are?” (Natalie) “I love people and I love people's complexity.” (Traci)   Connect: Find | Sidewalk Talk  At sidewalk-talk.org On Instagram: @sidewalktalkorg On Twitter: @sidewalktalkorg   Find | Traci Ruble At Traciruble.com On Instagram: @TraciRubleMFT On Twitter: @TraciRubleMFT On Facebook: @TraciRubleMFT   Find | Natalie Koussa At www.uncommon-people.com On Instagram: @nataliekoussa_    SUBSCRIBE TO THIS PODCAST On Apple Podcasts On Google Podcasts On Spotify On YouTube

“Even as adults, I think a lot of people really want to be published, but it's such a journey, and you have to enjoy it,” shares Natalie Rompella, middle school teacher and children's author. Natalie's Masters in Education and background in science combined with her love of teaching children took her down a path to publishing more than 60 children's books. Her chemistry professor encouraged Natalie to publish the picture book she had created for her final class project and the rest is history. Natalie now teaches various levels of creative writing and helps kids learn how to lean into their creativity and write something besides nonfiction essays.    Publishing does not always have to be the goal behind writing. Writing as a creative exercise has merit in itself for both adults and children, encouraging mindfulness and using the imagination to stretch the limits of what is possible. When people learn how to write for fun, they are also learning how to let go. Adults have a bad habit of getting so caught up in their busy lives that they don't take time to be creative just for fun. So, it is important to give creative writing a chance and allow your creativity a chance to flow.    Tune into this week's episode of The Catalyst to learn more about Natalie's catalytic moment, the benefits of creative writing, and how to go with the flow.    Quotes • “A lot of kids who write science fiction end up going into the fields of science and technology. And I had just never made that connection of science-fiction is what's possible.” (6:29-6:42 | Natalie) • “Even as adults, I think a lot of people go into it, they really want to be published, but it's such a journey, and you have to enjoy it.” (14:26-14:34 | Natalie) • “It took me 15 years to finally realize I write the best first thing in the morning. So I was not using the time I was most productive. I had to really be mindful and think about when am I most productive? When do I feel the most creative?” (21:39-21:57 | Natalie) • “When you write, you have to get to a point where you have pride in what you wrote. Where you want to not necessarily share it with other people, but you want to hold on to it.” (25:34-25:44 | Natalie)   Links Connect with Natalie Rompella: Website: https://natalierompella.com   Connect with Lara:  Website: https://drlarasalyer.com Instagram: @drlarasalyer Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drlarasalyer Linked-In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drlarasalyer/ YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/c/DrLaraSalyer TikTok: @Creativity.Doctor   Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

In this episode, we cover: Introduction (00:00) “Embracing Change Fearlessly” (01:45) Fearless change enabling good work (04:00) The culture change that needs to happen (06:10) How to talk to your leaders (10:45) “The Adolescent Version” of engineering (14:40) How Natalie prioritizes time, speed, and efficiency (18:42) Natalie's keynote (26:48) Links Referenced: Gremlin: https://www.gremlin.com/ gremlin.com/podcast: https://gremlin.com/podcast loyaltyfreakmusic.com: https://loyaltyfreakmusic.com TranscriptNatalie: I like this—I call it the adolescent version of engineering. It's where, you know, we're through the baby part, we need to start to grow up a little bit, we need to go from getting stuff done in some way or another, to something that's repeatable and scalable. And so, it's like, that adolescent years, that's my fun. That's what I enjoy doing. I call it creating something out of chaos.Basically, taming the chaos is what it really looks like because it's very chaotic initially, and that's true of every, like, small organization; they always start like that. And as they start to grow, you know, you've got ten different engineers who have ten different opinions on how something should be done, and so they do it ten different ways. And that's fine when you're only ten, but then when you need to go from 10 to 20 to 30 to 100, it no longer works.Julie: Welcome to Break Things on Purpose, a podcast about reliability, culture change, and learning from failure. In this episode, we talk with Natalie Conklin, head of engineering at Gremlin, about the importance of embracing change, and how we can all work through our fears and work together to build more reliable systems. Natalie, I'm so excited to have you here with us today. And today is actually a really big day because it is the fifth year of DevOpsDays Boise, which you are doing the closing keynote for. So, really excited to have you both on the podcast and at the conference today. And your talk is titled “Embrace Change Fearlessly.” So, do you want to kick off by telling our listeners a little bit about you and what you're going to be talking about?Natalie: Sure. Thanks for having me. I am excited about both, sort of, [laugh] which is exactly what the talk is about. [laugh]. The talk is really about being able to embrace change fearlessly, and that it's rarely ever fearlessly truly, but mostly around being able to do what makes you afraid anyway.I'm not a big public speaker, so that's something I've had to work hard at trying to be able to be more comfortable doing. And so, this is an exciting time for me. But background-wise, I am the head of engineering currently for Gremlin and had been leading engineering teams for growth companies for just over a decade. And a lot of what I end up doing centers around this: It's helping those engineering teams be willing to move forward in risky—because in growth companies, a lot of times you're building things that are brand new, this is not something that, you know, has been out there and done, so they typically have to do something new for the first time. And so, being able to take calculated risks is tough. It's hard stuff. And so, getting into the right mindset to be able to push through that, that's a lot of what I ended up doing.Julie: I love that. And that's actually a really good point that you're bringing up, you know, growth companies and being in the right mindset. So, one of the things you and I talked about when I was starting here at Gremlin and getting to know you a little bit about your background, which is really cool. You lived in India for a few years, correct?Natalie: I did. I lived there for two years. I was working for a company, we were doing big data analytics for telcos, building big, large platform that we would then do some custom development work off the top of for these various telco companies. And the team over there had experienced some turnover, and so there was a lot of quality issues and things of that nature starting to show up for the first time. This had been a very rock-solid team, honestly, and so the company asked if I would be willing to go to India to figure out what was going on. And so, that was what I did. It was a great opportunity; loved doing it.Julie: So now, as you work with teams to embrace change fearlessly, and we talk about you mentioned the ROI and doing things in new ways and building new things, do you have an example of maybe when you built something new or your team built something new, and it changed the way we work?Natalie: Well yes, an easy answer would just be to fall back on the India example for a second, right? So, a lot of what I did when I went there was they were a very waterfall shop, converted them over to Agile practices and DevOps. They had really none of that practice existing. So, when you ask the company—or the, I'll just say the team to go through that sort of transition, you're pretty much asking them to change everything about the way they work. And we focused a lot more —there was a lot of manual processes that they had been doing previously and we were automating all of those had to do the automations, but then also, you know, make sure that work fit into this new automated way of doing things.They also had, just, also the trepidation over am I going to still be needed, right? Those are all those things that come into your mind when you're basically changing from a manual process to an automated process, “Am I still going to be needed? Is my work going to still be important? What am I going to do in this new world, in this new environment?” There's a lot of that that pops up into people's heads.So, a lot of making the change successful, there's certainly the technical aspects of getting it automated and all those things, but to really make a change successful on that kind of scale, it requires getting people to think about it differently and to be okay, and to realize that they can learn new stuff and they'll come out of this better than how they went in. And a lot of that takes a lot of, just, communication and talking, being very personal with people, making sure that they personally understand how to do this, but then just also, things like training and coaching and making sure that there are people there to counter the negative energy that comes along with change. There's always negative energy that comes along with it, people are nervous, they're scared, and you have to be able to counter that in some way.Julie: You know, there was a talk I gave a while ago, and I'm trying to remember the name of it, but one of the things that I talked about was the Pareto Principle, which is, what, 20% of people are going to be amazing in an organization, 60% are going to be, you know, middle of the road, then you have that bottom 20% that are going to kind of fight that change. And you shouldn't really necessarily focus on that top 20%, but you should put a lot of the focus on bringing that bottom 20% along with you. And we talk a lot about just the cultural change that needs to happen when we talk about Chaos Engineering, for example. I mean, there's a huge cultural change that organizations need to switch that mindset into embracing failure. Which we talk a lot about, but it's hard for folks to embrace change fearlessly, embrace failure fearlessly.When you've been going through these experiences in the past—and you mentioned that you really need to think about the people—what's one of the common fears? You said, you know, people worry about their jobs and worry about being left behind. Work us through how do you help folks with that?Natalie: Yeah, I think that's actually one of the most interesting aspects of this. When you start looking at—when I [start talking about 00:07:18] about, you know, people don't change, when it's something that's personal like getting married or having kids or going off to college, you know, these are all huge life changes, and we celebrate those, we have parties, we're super happy, we think they're fantastic, right? And I mean, if I go back to India for a second, these are the same people that are struggling on, you know, the fact that I'm going to change from a manual testing to an automated testing, will actually go through an arranged marriage where they're marrying someone that they don't know super well, but they're very happy about it, right? So, that's one of the things that I like to point out and have a discussion with people about is that you're not afraid of change; you're afraid of change in your work life, right? And we have to be very specific about that because we start talking about humans are afraid of change, I actually don't agree. I think we're just afraid of changing what we do at work.And usually, that's because that's somehow tied to our needs pyramid, right? Like, that's how we get our needs met from food and shelter and all of these other kinds of things. And so, when we start to threaten that, it gets really, you know, sketchy for a minute, right? So, that's when we have to, like, take a minute and realize what we're doing and realize that we're being overly protective of a part of our world that, you know, we somehow feel like it's going to then have us begging on the street, is the example I give in my talk, right? That's not going to happen. Like, you know, that's just an irrational fear.And it's highly unlikely that that's your right answer. So, what I encourage people to do is to actually find a logical, kind of, sounding board, person, a mentor, a friend—and again, if you don't have this person in your life, then you know, find that person, but start talking to them about, like, what's most likely to happen in this scenario? Or, better yet, what can I get out of it? I think if you spent less time on that and spent, you know, more time on, like, what can I actually get out of this, how could this benefit me, and sort of flip that in your brain.Because what our brains are incredibly good at doing is going down that worst possible path. But the real truth is, we're just as capable of imagining the good. It's just a matter of focus. So, why don't we just focus on that instead? We can focus on what's the positive part of this, what could happen, and we're actually much more likely—there's a whole lot of studies around manifestation—and we can manifest that in our life if we want to, right? So, we just need to focus on the positive side of it.So, I—literally it's honestly a bunch of personal conversations, and getting people to just calm down and realize that the likelihood of their worst-case scenario is not really real. And then start to think through, okay, what can you actually learn from this? You know, is there something that you would like to get out of this? Would you like to try a new role? Would you like to try to lead an initiative? Would you like to be part of this in some way, right?So, those conversations—and again, it has to be personal. That's the thing that I think, you know, when you start doing widespread, full organizational changes, which I was doing over there and I had 120 engineers, it's hard to do it personally because you literally have to have one-on-one conversations with everybody and understand what they are going to get out of it. But that is what's required. I think, to really get people to a comfort zone, you've got to make sure that they understand how they fit in, and their why; why they're doing it.Julie: And that is all amazing. Now, as the leader, as the head of engineering and an organization, how do you recommend individual contributors talk to their leaders? Or how do they bring up concerns in a way that's productive in an organization? Because I know for me, sometimes—and you're right, I am excellent at going down that every possible negative outcome path; I've planned it out pretty well, to my peril, but that means that when I bring up concerns with leadership, I tend to do so in a heightened emotional state. So, what's your advice for folks?Natalie: Well, and it's just that. I think it's exactly where you're headed with that is that take the emotions out of it—or attempt to—and try to present your concerns logically. Because there's going to be situations where what you're bringing up is something they need to consider, and if you can present it in a logical way, chances are they will, and they'll take that into consideration. So, I would—like, even if they are going to still move forward with the plans that you've somehow don't agree with, like, let's assume that some portion of this change, you don't feel is correct, which is actually one of the most legitimate reasons to worry about this, then what you should do is say, “Okay, look, I have this concern, so here's the Plan B. But just in case, this doesn't work. But I think it might not, so here's a Plan B.”Like, that's a way of presenting that in a way that's not challenging to the situation. So, I'll give you an example. In the India conversations, one of the things was that I actually did create a Plan B around was the fact that the person was bringing up—I was attempting to have Agile teams where they needed to have very strong ownership, they also needed to be able to self-manage. We talked about self-managed teams in Agile. And India is a very hierarchical culture, and so the thing that they brought up with me is that this isn't going to work here; it culturally isn't a good fit.And frankly, I knew that I was going to—I had this issue it within the company, but was it so widespread within India that I couldn't possibly change it? I hadn't lived there my whole life, I couldn't say, right? So, I needed to actually answer that question. And I thought it was a legitimate question, right? And I thought—but it was presented in, you know, a very factual, logical way, and kind of without the emotions, and so it's like, “Okay, let me think through that.”And so, we did this as a—you know, we created an experimental team where we tried this out to see if it would work. And it actually did, ultimately, succeed with that team. And I love this team because —I mean, to be fair, I did handpick who went on this team. Like, I did, you know, try to pick people who I thought might be the most likely to succeed. I'm not crazy; I did want it to work, and so you know, I did sort of seed it a bit.But at the same time, when they came out of that—and they tend to be a little bit younger than I think some of the, you know—because I think their minds were a little bit more open as part of that, but they came out of that, and after about nine sprints, you started to see the junior engineers challenging the more senior engineers, which in India is not like something that you see all that often. They were also able to —the junior engineers were having opinions, they were contributing to the technical discussions. Like, it was actually a pretty radical shift. But they also kind of walked around with this, like, certain swagger that I cannot describe. But it was, like, super fun to watch.So, you know, you've got to see that this was actually going to work, and it could work. And then it became a really good example, for the rest. So, I think the main thing is to help mitigate risk. If you have a real concern over a change that's coming your way, and it's something you don't feel like the company should do, just understand that they may do it instead and that's not personal, but at the same time, you know, you can help by offering a Plan B or some risk mitigation to double-check that it is going to work or to help it work.Julie: Absolutely. It's kind of that whole testing hypothesis, right? We're going to see if this works; we're going to evaluate it. One of the things that you brought up that I love and it was something that when I was at PagerDuty, we used to talk about a lot with the postmortem process, which was to involve junior engineers because they tend to look at things differently with that fresh set of eyes.Natalie: Right.Julie: And they kind of get us a little bit—the people who've been doing it for a very long period of time—a little bit out of your comfort zone because all of a sudden, maybe you're having to explain something. Jason and I have talked about this a few more times probably than necessary, but just, “Well, we've always done it this way because…” and then having to explain that because. You know, one of the things that I find interesting just from your background is—you know, we've talked about this, where you scaled that engineering team from 0 to 100, to deliver on custom software engineering contracts, and you've done quite a few things over your career. I mean, even working at Oracle—which we were actually just talking about an Oracle outage this morning—but, driving technical programs. And that seems to be a lot of your background. I mean, even at Facet, that you introduced engineering best practices to standardize code reviews and improve test coverage. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?Natalie: Yeah, I think—I like this—I call it the adolescent version of engineering. It's where, you know, we're through the baby part, we need to start to grow up a little bit, we need to go from getting stuff done in some way or another, to something that's repeatable and scalable. And so, it's like, that adolescent years, that's my fun. That's what I enjoy doing. I call it creating something out of chaos.Basically, taming the chaos is what it really looks like because it's very chaotic initially, and that's true of every, like, small organization; they always start like that. And as they start to grow, you know, you've got ten different engineers who have ten different opinions on how something should be done, and so they do it ten different ways. And that's fine when you're only ten, but then when you need to go from 10 to 20 to 30 to 100, it no longer works. And you do have to create some standards and still leave enough leeway for people to be able to have their tool of choice based on, you know, what makes sense, right?So, there needs to be some pragmatism in there, you can't just, like, also go the [unintelligible 00:16:54] where it's just one thing. But at the same time, there is some standards and there is some consistency that needs to be created so that, like, when you're onboarding a new engineer, there's not 20 things to learn; you can reduce that down to something that's manageable and you can get somebody onboard and productive within a reasonable amount of time. Otherwise, that's difficult, even that becomes difficult. So, every part of it that needs to have some level of standards around it—I think the fun in it, too, is finding that balance between introducing enough process that you have some standardization, you have some consistency, but not so much that you slow it down to the point that it's no longer moving. Because you can; you can strangle a small organization with too much process.So, it's finding that middle ground. And yeah, that's what I've pretty much done, like, my whole career in some form or another; it's what I enjoy. And if it gets to the point where things become too standard, too stable, to done, then I'm probably… I'm going to need to move on to something different and new. You know, that's going to be where I go do this again, with somebody else.Julie: Hashtag #startuplife, right?Natalie: [laugh].Julie: [laugh]. That's interesting that you bring up, you know, going from ten people to more, right, where you can just buy any tool you want and reimburse it, and there might not even be a central repo of all the tools that the organization has, to whittling that down into processes that you own, that you control, versus processes that control you. And then bringing those ten people that were there at the beginning that could kind of do whatever they want because the whole goal is to bring this product to market, to refining that organization and helping build out features in service of the customer. So, when you're looking at the new things that you want to do or prioritizing your time or the engineering team's time, what are some of the things that you take into consideration?Natalie: It's kind of actually very similar to performance when you look at the performance of a system, right? The engineering organization is no different. You need to find your bottlenecks and then you work from there. And the bottlenecks are different depending on which team that you're looking at, right? So, I like to start to kind of get a feel for what's working, what's not working, and where things are slow, [unintelligible 00:19:15] oftentimes what I'm trying to do is to get some speed, to get some speed and consistency tend to be really big things without losing quality. You know, all of those kinds of—those are the always the buckets, right?And so, when you start looking at speed, it really starts to look very much like that performance bottleneck exercise where you just start hitting them one at a time until you, you know, you get through the easy ones and then you start tweaking from there. But for instance, I'll tell you when I first started with Gremlin, we had a very large team and because of that, stand-ups were very huge, there was too much conversation, they took too long, people —actually the odd thing is that you'll find people have less ownership when the team is too large because they don't feel like they're as part of something that they're making a huge —as much of an impact on; they don't feel their impact on a team that's too large, so when you're organized in such a way that the teams are very large, you tend to lose some of the qualities of Agile that you're trying to achieve when you're doing these little small Agile teams, or at least that's the thought. So, one of the things I did was split the team. And one of the first things that I did—and that automatically started to create a different dynamic within the teams, and we're starting to see the results of that. And so, I feel like those are the kinds of things that you do.Like, that was an easy one; we have to do this, like, that first. Now, like, what do we do next? It depends. It depends, like, where, like, in some cases—I'll take India, for example—there was a lot of tech debt. So, I had some tech debt that I had to contend with and deal with that was—the way it was built, it was built with this very huge monolithic-style service, and I needed to help them start breaking that into smaller services, mainly because—and they were such a large team, and it was still a monolithic sort of situation, the problem was actually more so than the performance because they had tuned the heck out of that, so that wasn't it.Like, the data was very large, so they had already dealt with performance. But the conflict within the engineering teams was a lot because there was so much coordination. And so, by being able to split this up into services that make sense, then the teams can start to own the services and be able to deliver on that with some speed without having to coordinate so much. And every moment of coordination costs you time, right? So, that's the type of things that you start to look at.And it could be a technical solution, like in this case, it was breaking the technology, from an architectural standpoint, down into something that make the teams operate differently, or it can be splitting the teams itself without changing the architecture. It can be any number of things. But really start to have to look at what's causing this to go slow.Julie: Now, I love that because when everybody owns everything, nobody owns anything, right? And you talked about breaking the teams down into service teams that makes sense. And so, it sounds like it was incredibly intentional; owning your services all the way through into production is really helpful with that speed and that quality. And you mentioned that briefly earlier, which is—what is that? The iron triangle, or whatever they call it, but speed, cost, quality. There's three things; you can only have two. Which two do you pick?Natalie: Right. [laugh]. Exactly.Julie: And I've seen that titled as a fallacy saying that you can really have all three, but I don't really know. What do you think? Speed, cost, quality, can you have all three?Natalie: Well, so you can maybe have speed, cost, and quality, but if you throw scope in there, [laugh] and you throw that into your [unintelligible 00:22:41], right? Like, because [unintelligible 00:22:42] where you have to start throwing that in. Like, if you look at—so, you know, the triangle that we tend to look at is the time that you're going to deliver it in, the scope, and the price. Those are the three that I think you can only hold two of. You can go—so by speed when you say speed, cost, and quality, if you go back to your you know, your original one, depends on what how you define speed on whether or not you get quality out of that, right? [laugh].And so, when you say—but when you start putting deadlines on things, then yeah, you can get quality so long as I can control the scope, right? Because then I can scope it down enough that I can deliver something within that timeline that is of high quality, right? So, those are the trade-offs that you have to make? And no I don't —I still feel like in that particular three-legged stool, you know, there's only two of those you get, that somebody else outside of your organization can handle. You do have to —otherwise, you know, you can't possibly deliver everything in the world within a really short timeframe and expect the quality to be high.Julie: Yeah, wouldn't that be nice if you could, right? But that's why we talk about learning from our failures. That's why we talked about Chaos Engineering and understanding our systems. Because in all reality, we do have timeframes that we need to get things out, and we have to make our systems as reliable as possible. But then where do we find the gaps that we may have missed because of speed, because of that timeliness?Natalie: Well, and when you start looking at things like, you know, quality, there's certainly things that you can do, but if you go back to Chaos Engineering—we talk about that for just a second, and we look at the changes that people are afraid of. What happens when you go in and you tell a place, “To improve your quality I'm going to actually start shutting down your host.” They're like, “I'm sorry, what?” [laugh].Julie: [laugh].Natalie: That's a very difficult conversation, right? So, I feel like it's one of those things where once you see that and why you would do it and then, like, you make the adjustments to that, and then it becomes a part of your—doing this sort of change is actually, you know, something that you just do on a continuous basis; it's no longer something that you're afraid of, right? And I think that's true of just [unintelligible 00:24:48] in general. Like, you know, once you start getting into the habit of it, whatever that habit might be—and automation, by the way, is one of those things—and whether it be automating regular tests, whether it be automating Chaos Engineering tests, like any of this automation, that's actually a key to speed with engineering. And the reason for that is because those are so closely linked.I go back and I talk about automation and confident mindset. This is really the two things that give you speed in engineering organization. And the reason is because if you can automate it enough, you can—you know, obviously there's just some speed that comes from automation, you know, that you're not doing things manually, that's great. But the thing that you miss in that, or that you don't necessarily think of, is the fact that there, like, an automated safety net under you, like, through testing, through, like, you know, the systems-level testing, Chaos Engineering, you know, the engineers now feel more free, they're more confident, they're able to make changes at a much more rapid pace. It feels less risky because they're able to make this change and then they know that the tests are going to catch them, right?So, if they've screwed something up, something else is going to stop it before it heads to production. So, they're just more—they're able to just move forward at a faster pace than they would otherwise, right? So, that automation, the speed that you get out of it goes far beyond just you taking the manual process down to an automated one; it's creating the safety net that gives them the confidence to just move without thinking. And that's huge. Like, that's a big deal.It's also—back to your thoughts on junior engineers—it's also why I think it's really important to make sure there's people in the engineering team who [unintelligible 00:26:26] three years, like, three years of experience. It's like you know enough that you can make really good progress and you can be useful, but you don't know so much that you're afraid. Like, there—laugh] because that confident mindset I'm back to, it really matters. Like, it makes such a big difference in the teams that will move quickly and teams that will not.Julie: I love everything that you just said. And I just saw a tweet from Kelsey Hightower that he tweeted just a couple of days ago; I saw it just before we recorded this. So, he said, “…as an industry we've been pushing… Automate. Automate. Automate. And we haven't been saying… Understand. Understand. Understand. Because if you understand what you're doing, you can automate it if you want to.”And I think you just touched on that. And I think you touched on a lot of the having confidence, that what you're doing—that there's safety and even if there are failures, that they're going to be caught. And I think that all ties together beautifully. Now, with that, because I do realize that we are running out of time, I just want to say, so for you, you are giving the closing keynote today at DevOpsDays Boise. And we've talked a lot about overcoming fear during this podcast, and I know that this was something that made you a little bit uncomfortable. Can you tell me why you chose to do this? Why did you choose to overcome this fear?Natalie: Because of my position and the fact that I'm female, I get offers. And I just made a deal with myself about, you know, a few months ago that said, you know, I wouldn't turn these down. And primarily it's because I feel like it's important that at least some women are out there and are serving as examples for others. Like, I'm not saying that I'm going to have, like, the best things to say all the time, and I think that's okay. I don't think every man that comes on a podcast has the best things to say either, right?So, I feel like it's just one of those situations where we need examples for ourselves, and I think it's important that, you know, we see ourselves in the—in what's—in what's, I guess, the speakers and the participants, right? And so, I want to make sure that I do my part in that, I guess.Julie: Well, thank you. And you heard it here first, folks. If you need Natalie to speak at your conference, she made a deal with herself [laugh] that she would not say no. We're really excited to have you both on the podcast and speaking at DevOpsDays Boise. So, thank you, Natalie, and thank you for joining us on Break Things on Purpose. And good luck on your talk today.Natalie: Thank you. Appreciate it. Enjoyed it. [laugh].Julie: Have a wonderful day.Natalie: You too.Jason: For links to all the information mentioned, visit our website at gremlin.com/podcast. If you liked this episode, subscribe to the Break Things on Purpose podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite podcast platform. Our theme song is called “Battle of Pogs” by Komiku, and it's available on loyaltyfreakmusic.com.

At harbour.today, Natalie Nzeyimana and her team are helping people build holistic resilience. On this episode, she and Chad talk about building the app at the beginning of the pandemic when she witnessed herself and others feeling like they were close to drowning and feeling really unmoored. Harbour is a space for people to anchor themselves, find clarity, and set sail. The community offers one-to-one coaching, workshops, a course, and a daily check-in tool. harbour.today (https://www.harbour.today/) Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/harbour.today/) Twitter (https://twitter.com/natalieisonline) Lunchclub (https://lunchclub.com/) Become a Sponsor (https://thoughtbot.com/sponsorship) of Giant Robots! Transcript: CHAD: This is the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots Podcast, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Chad Pytel. And today, I'm joined by the founder of Harbour, Natalie Nzeyimana. So, Natalie, thanks for joining me. NATALIE: Thanks for having me on. CHAD: So tell me a little bit about what Harbour is. NATALIE: Sure. Harbour is a space for people to anchor self, find clarity, and set sail. We offer one-to-one coaching, workshops, a course, and a daily check-in tool. Harbour was built at the beginning of the pandemic when I witnessed within myself, and the people I knew who I'd worked with, friends, family, just a lot of us felt like we were close to drowning and feeling really unmoored. And so, it began as a course to think about the ways we could use holistic strategies to anchor ourselves and set sail. And from then, from November 2020 to now, it's become a product. CHAD: You started in November. And I know we first met in London a while ago. You were teaching yourself to code working on an education product if I remember right. And we got together at Google Space there and paired for a little bit. Did you code Harbour yourself? NATALIE: It feels like another lifetime. CHAD: [laughs] NATALIE: I think life before the pandemic and life after the pandemic; there's a real line there. I've done quite a bit of the coding myself. However, I've also used a lot of no-code solutions to create MVPs. They've been amazing at helping me scale, helping me test out ideas incredibly quickly. And so one of the interesting things about juggling doing client work, and then also building the back end, and building the module, and then building the design work, and thinking about content juggling all of these different pieces, is that equation of do I invest time in HTML, or do I invest time in machine learning that's going to help me scale? And making all of those intricate decisions has been really, really interesting because, of course, I want to make everything myself. But these no-code solutions have enabled me to test hypotheses so much faster so that I can save time in the long run. CHAD: Well, tell us a little bit more about what the product is today and what you went through to get to this point. NATALIE: Sure. So initially, I just posted on LinkedIn to see who would want to join the course. I had a really simple Squarespace page, and then that evolved into a Typeform which I would use with clients to help them track progress and checking in with their chakras every day. And so, the way that Harbour works is that we do an energy review based on the seven in-body chakras. And so, for anyone who might be unfamiliar with this terminology, the chakras are...well, there are different schools of thought on this. They are a system for either focusing during meditation depending on where you sit in terms of your feelings towards energy bodies. They are a subtle body energy system of themselves. And what I find incredibly helpful for those chakras is that they help people map their energy in a way that I haven't found anything else does effectively. So starting from the root chakra, which is the base of your spine, you can ask yourself, am I feeling safe? Am I feeling grounded? Am I feeling as though my material needs are met? Traveling up towards your reproductive area, you've got the sacral chakra which governs your sense of feeling as though you can desire the things that you desire in the world, feeling as though you are sensual. You're able to experience pleasure. You're able to be creative and playful. And then up to the solar plexus, which is around your navel area, governs the sense of personal power, empowerment, will, feeling as though you're able to go after your goals with chutzpah and energy. And then moving into the heart chakra, which governs this idea of do I feel as though I'm open to receiving and giving love freely? And the throat, do I feel as though I'm an open conduit for the truth of who I am? Do I feel as though I'm able to express myself fully in the world? And then into the third eye, which governs your intuition. Do I feel as though I'm able to trust my intuitive leads and to move with grace and ease, trusting and able to go with the flow? And then finally, we have the crown chakra, which governs do I feel open to receiving divine wisdom? Do I feel as though I'm in this world on my own and there's nothing but pure materiality? Or do I feel open to receiving what some people might call God or Allah or the Tao? Whatever your orientation is, do I feel open towards receiving that kind of wisdom? What's really beautiful about the chakras is that they've been used by ancient Chinese, ancient Egyptians, Tibetans, Sikhs, multiple traditions, and indigenous systems. And so there's kind of this lovely thread of people around the world thinking about how energy moves through our minds, bodies, and spirits. But that's quite a lot. So we just ask seven questions every day. CHAD: So I have to admit I was not...and my first exposure to this is this conversation. So is this something that you have been aware of and practicing prior to working on Harbour, or is it something that you found which then led you to the creation? NATALIE: Definitely the latter, the latter. So I went through a pretty gnarly, dark night of the soul and just had this huge existential crisis of wondering what am I here to do? Why am I here? What's my purpose in life? I don't know if other people might resonate with this, but kind of feeling that you make these huge or not so huge career goals, and then you reach them, and you still feel like something's missing. And in my quest to understand what that missing piece might be, I came across chakras, and I found it incredibly helpful. I think people who do yoga might be aware of this because they often come up to yoga. Physical movement is often a way of realigning and balancing the chakras. So there are specific movements or specific asanas that you can do to balance out your root chakra or balance out your Sacral Chakra, which is great because it's kind of like all of these different hacks you can do to bring your mind, body, and spirit back in line. And that's why I think I loved it because when I encountered a lot of other systems or other approaches, it just all felt a bit ephemeral and like I couldn't grasp it. But there was something about chakras that really spoke to the budding engineer within me because I was like, wait, you can just hack yourself into alignment? This is great. [chuckles] CHAD: So this is something you do daily. NATALIE: Well, something I try to do daily. [chuckles] CHAD: Okay. I meant, is this something one does daily? [chuckles] NATALIE: Yeah. Ideally, yes. Because it's like anything else that we do, if you want to maintain a certain level of well-being or perhaps a certain level of fluency, let's say, for example, in a language whether that's a programming language or the spoken language, you need to practice it every day. And so, with chakras and aligning one's mind, body, and spirit, it feels as though the stakes are slightly higher when we're in the middle of a pandemic, and there's so much uncertainty, and all of our lives have kind of been exposed to so much change. But yes, daily is optimal. Daily is, at least at Harbour, the bare minimum. What are some things that you do every day to balance your mind, body, and spirit? You may be aligning your chakras without quite realizing that you are. CHAD: Yeah. So I run every day. And I've often described that as that's my meditation. So I find that that really does wonders for reducing my overall stress. I do it in the morning before starting my day. And so, I think it really sets the foundation on which the rest of the day is built for me. And it wasn't until I made the commitment to do it every day. And now I run long distance enough where I need to take a rest day once a week. But when I made the commitment to do it every day, it really did change my relationship with running. NATALIE: That's so interesting. I was thinking about Kazuo Ishiguro's what I think about when I'm running or something along those lines. He's written this great book. And I know several people who run and have spoken of its incredible meditative qualities. And I think that's a wonderful way of connecting with yourself or creating space to connect with yourself. I also wanted to touch upon something that I know that we tend to move towards or perhaps even a dichotomy: do we meditate to relieve stress, or do we meditate to get closer to our divinity? And so one of the things at Harbour that we try to do is we try to help folks shift from meditating to relieve stress to meditating to connect with one's divinity, and that way, the stress doesn't become as prominent a factor for which meditation is there to alleviate. CHAD: What do you mean by divinity in this case? NATALIE: Yeah, great question. Very controversial. [laughs] I mean, it's 2021, and the least cool thing you could possibly do in an engineering environment is talk about God and the divine. I think there is a really interesting choice point we're at as a collective where there is an increased awareness of consciousness. So there's a lot of language in at least the tech community, from my experience, whether you've got things like Burning Man or just a lot of products and offerings out there, which are there to raise your consciousness. One of the really tricky things about raising your consciousness...and in the chakra system, we do that through something that's called a kundalini awakening, which is where your consciousness does raise from the root chakra all the way to the crown. As your consciousness raises through the chakras, coming from the Indian tradition, what happens is your life force, your consciousness moves through your chakras, and each chakra it touches upon triggers a mini awakening. So, for example, as your life force is moving through your root chakra, anything that may have happened in your childhood, anytime that you may have experienced any aspect of material instability, let's say you lost your job or you had a partnership fall apart, or any time where you felt like your world completely crumbled, that will likely be triggered when you're going through that mini awakening in that root chakra. I mentioned divinity because it feels as though there are two paths we can go down. We can either go down the path of I am raising my consciousness. I am the master of my own destiny. I know what I am here to do in life, and I'm in control of my own awakening. Or we can go down another path which is far trickier, which is sort of saying, "At every point in every day, I choose to surrender to the wisdom that is far beyond me. And I'm going to trust the signals and the science that I receive that they are aligned with my highest good." One of these paths is more egoic, and the other one is more surrendered. That's not to say that we don't need an ego. But the ego can get into really tricky territory when you're doing this kind of alignment and awakening work, and it can really do a lot of harm. And I don't say that through judgment. I say that because I've been through the wringer with a lot of ego deaths. And so, one of the safest ways to mitigate that risk of the ego taking over is to surrender to something that is far more wise than you. Perhaps you don't resonate with the idea that there is only one creator, and that's fine. But perhaps just from a logical point of view, it does seem to make more sense to surrender to the fact that there's something that knows more than I do at any moment. CHAD: So this is some really big stuff. NATALIE: Oh yeah. CHAD: Before we get much further into it, I think for listeners who want to learn more or are interested in what they're hearing and want to give it a try, where do they do that? Where do they find Harbour? And what is it going to look like? NATALIE: Sure. So you can follow us at harbour.today online on our website also on Instagram. And I'd love to invite your listeners to try out our 30-day trial, where if you complete 30 days of your chakra daily check-in, you'll receive access to our platform with activities, reading prompts, and also different course materials for free for a whole year. And I know I'm probably giving this away to a lot of people because all the engineers I know are very disciplined, [laughs] and they'll do this 30-day streak like it's a GitHub streak. CHAD: [laughs] NATALIE: So I'm shooting myself in the foot a little bit. But I'm really keen to offer folks who are asking these questions who are thinking about what am I here to do? Is there more? How do I engage with literature that could help me ask these questions more deeply within myself? And the daily check-in and the learning platform is a really simple way to do that. CHAD: Great. That's great. I hope folks check it out. So, in addition to the daily check-in, you just gave some hints on what is actually on the platform. There are reading prompts and those sorts of things. Is there more than that as well available? NATALIE: Definitely. So we are launching a monthly course on October 6th, and then the next one will be in January when we come back from the break called Organic Cycles. And the purpose of this course is to help people who are thinking about launching something. So you may have a side project that you're thinking about launching or perhaps a hobby that you feel like you want to take up, or maybe you even want to become an entrepreneur full time. But you're a little bit overwhelmed by what might be involved by that. And so at Harbour, we're real big believers in cyclic, iterative, sustainable growth. And so, we use the moon cycle for our sprints. We use it for measuring our tasks. And in Organic Cycles, you will learn about the moon. You'll follow the Moon Phases. And let's say, for example, you want to start a new business selling socks. [laughs] On the new moon on October the sixth, you will join us, and you will tell us all about your sock business. And we'll listen, and we'll make a plan as other people in the cosmic plan. In the first quarter, we'll start thinking a little bit about why do you love socks so much? Where does that come from? And what are the small steps we can make together to help you grow your sock business within this moon cycle? Which is, of course, 28 days. On the full moon, we'll celebrate all the progress that you've made with your sock business. And together, we'll figure out the next steps. In the last quarter, we'll think about hmm, what were the experiments making the sock business so far that worked really well? What are the ones that didn't? Which ones would you like to take into the next cycle? And on the next new moon, we'll start all over again. And so it's very similar to an agile workflow, except you're learning about the moon. And the reason why I believe that's important is because a lot of our day-to-day lives are just so focused on abstract entities and not necessarily the natural world. And so a lot of the prompts in the daily review for Harbour are getting outside, all sorts of different things that reconnect you to nature as a way of rewilding you. So yeah, I'd really love for folks to come on board. If you have any experience with agile, even if you don't and you're just curious about the moon, and want to find out a little bit more about the stars and anything natural, and meet other people who are curious about energy and ideation and how to create cycles which feel more organic, we'd love to have you along. CHAD: I really like the sound of this in that it's a structure to anything. A group environment where you're helping each other is great. Layering on the information about the moon and everything adds an additional element of interest to it. I'm just a big believer in being intentional about what we do in our businesses and in our lives. So any structure that can help people be intentional about what they do, I think is going to help people and help them be more successful than if they just don't have a plan and aren't intentional, aren't consciously thinking about what they want to achieve, and what they want for themselves. And helping people do that, I think, is great. NATALIE: Definitely. And I definitely have been on both sides of that coin, either having too much structure or no structure at all. And I think there's something really beautiful about naming things in ways that feel soft and ways that feel different to people so that they can access that idea and be playful with it and be creative. Because I know that for a lot of people who we work with, post-burnout, folks who are incredibly structured. The Harbour client is a recovering Type A like me who has probably been an overachiever at school and has probably been incredibly structured in their lives but didn't really know how to let go and didn't really know how to create fluidity and flow in their life. And so one of our tag lines is between discipline and surrender and a devotion to flow. And flow is made possible through that playfulness, and through that structure, and through those rituals, and through that surrender, which is really fun. And it's always really, really fun to see people connect the dots and see, oh, it's quite interesting. Like on full moons, I do have a lot more energy. Or on the new moons, I do feel a little bit more restful, and giving people prompts to add self-care and add meditation to their existing structures. CHAD: So this might be an overly practical question, but I'm curious how you manage time zones. NATALIE: [laughs] With naps. [laughter] CHAD: Okay. Fair enough. NATALIE: No, really, I do. I have naps. And I really love work...as you know, I've been working with folks in the U.S. for the last ten years. And I really enjoy it because I think it feels like transporting to a different environment. So, yeah, just a nap, and then I wake up, and I'm in a different country. It's great. CHAD: [laughs] So it's almost like you've actually traveled then. NATALIE: Exactly. Exactly. CHAD: Hopefully, a little less jetlag. NATALIE: Yeah, it's really great. What about in your work? I know that you're one of the most organized and structured people I've ever met. But sometimes, when I'm in Notion, I'm like, what would Chad do? [chuckles] But how do you find the balance between order and structure and allowing yourself the space to find flow and surrender even as a leader, even when you're building a product? CHAD: Well, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate it. Let me preface by saying I think that nothing ever stays the same. And so what I do today and what's working for me today is probably pretty different than three years ago because our teams are in different places, and the people I work with are different, and I'm in a different place. So the thing that's working for me now is putting times blocked off on my calendar where I want to either...it's a regularly scheduled time. And I have one on Thursday; it's from 2:00 to 5:00 p.m. It's just blocked off, and it just says, "Focus time." And each week, then I decide in advance what I'm going to be doing during that focus time. And it might be exploring something new. It might be working on something specific. And then, when I need to accomplish something else, making sure that I block off the time on the calendar. And so that's working for me now. And it's not what I used to do. I used to be much more freeform. Nowadays, if I don't block off the time, I lose it. Previously, I could maintain a lot of free time on my calendar and use that as the time I was doing things. And as we grew and as I was working with people more across all of thoughtbot, across many different time zones, I needed to be much more conscious about what my scheduled time actually looked like and make sure that I'm scheduling time to work on things more freeform. NATALIE: Yeah, definitely. That's so helpful. And I like the idea of time blocking. I've been trying to do a little bit more of that. What's interesting, too, is as Harbour grows and the product grows, and thinking about scaling and trying to anticipate things before they happen, even though you can't anticipate everything, one of the exercises I've been thinking about is what would it feel like to have a team of this many people and meditate on that idea and see if it feels right? And do I necessarily need to have a team that looks like X or a team that looks like Y? And trying to meditate into what that experience would be before making the decision. And I'm wondering if, through your experience having run this global company and having scaled it over more than a decade, what are some of the things that you've done to pre-pave and to support the sustainable scaling of the business? CHAD: I think thinking things through in advance is very important. And I don't say the next thing I'm about to say because it's not important because I think that it is very important, and I certainly do it. But I've also come to grips over the years with the idea that no matter how much we plan, it's not going to go like we plan. And so there's this interesting balance between planning too much and reacting to what's happening. And I'll come back to intentionality. And the way that I talked about it at thoughtbot is letting fulfillment be our North Star. So we shouldn't be doing things just because we think they'll be good business decisions or because we think they're the right thing to do for some arbitrary reason. We should be driven by what we want to be doing in our work and what kind of company we want to be, and being fulfilled in our work. And when we're faced with a decision to make about who we are, or what we do, or how we're going to approach this, letting it be driven by fulfillment is very powerful. Because it means that likely what everyone wants from their work is not so different from one another, especially when we curate a team of people that want to work together for our working lives what might be. It's probably not so different from each other. So that's also very powerful because it means that I don't need to be the one to make all of the decisions. Other people can make those decisions around who we are and what we'll do, and which direction will head in. And they'll very likely be what will be fulfilling to the rest of the team as well. And so it sort of democratizes that decision-making in a way which is more resilient and then can be more flexible. As our best-laid plans start to go awry, we're making decisions based on fulfillment. And I think that allows us to be resilient. NATALIE: Yeah, that's so helpful. CHAD: Because so much of what we've tried, particularly when we intentionally try to grow, so many of the decisions that have made thoughtbot successful we weren't making them for business reasons, we were making them because -- NATALIE: They felt right. CHAD: They felt right. We were the first consulting company in the world to switch to Ruby on Rails. We didn't make that decision because we thought Rails was going to be popular. We made it because, as developers and designers, we were more fulfilled using this new thing, Rails, than using PHP or Java. And, in fact, if we had been focused on what we thought would be the successful business thing, we might never have chosen that because it can feel very risky because you're choosing something entirely unknown. So the opposite example is we've tried very hard to grow over the years non-organically geographically. So someone is moving to this area, or we are going to hire someone in this area. And we're going to grow into this area. And it's not driven necessarily by fulfillment. And in a lot of those cases, it's been very difficult, or it's outright not been successful. And so, being able to react to those situations and adjust has been critical for our long-term success. Another word I use often is grit. And grit, for me, means we fail a bunch but we stay at it because we are driven by...what's driving that is fulfillment. So even if we really believe in it, even if we've failed in execution for business reasons or something like that, we tend to stick with it over the long term and just try a different way. NATALIE: Yeah, I hear that. There is so much grit that's required to sustain something over a long period of time. And it feels like quite an incremental grit as opposed to huge pushes of energy that we might witness in different business models, for example, venture capital. And having been in the whirlwind of the VC world a little bit and now building what I hope is a more sustainable model, the grit is very moment to moment. It's continuous. Each task, each decision, it's a soft resilience that kind of grows over time as opposed to having to wield huge amounts of chutzpah to get through this investment cycle. Do you know what I mean? CHAD: I do, and I think that has a flip side as well, which I try to be conscious of but don't always do a good job with. I tend not to project too far; that's one side. And then the reverse is also true, which I tend not to celebrate successes enough. I tend not to reflect on the past too much because I'm on to the next incremental improvement pretty quickly. That has benefits because when you have a down day, tomorrow is a new day. It's a brand new day. But that has downsides too, which is when you have a great day, [laughs] you're on to the next thing the next day as well, at least for me. I move on very quickly. And like I said, I think that has its benefits, and it has its downsides. NATALIE: What are your rituals for celebrating both personally and professionally? How do you celebrate yourself and the ways that you've grown? And how do you celebrate the business that you've grown with others? CHAD: Just being honest, I probably have not...I do not have rituals. And I think this is where having good partners, or other members of my team has been helpful because knowing that this will be my tendency, having other people backing me up to recognize the successes or to call me on when I'm moving on too quickly or something like that has been helpful. NATALIE: Yeah, definitely. CHAD: Are you working on Harbour solo right now, or are you working with others? NATALIE: Sure. Sometimes I work with a really wonderful ayurvedic practitioner called Sriram, who was an engineer for 15 years before he became an ayurvedic practitioner. So completely similar to you in that thought about going about and finding a co-founder or partnering with someone. And then I just had this really lovely chat with someone on Lunchclub. And we ended up talking about chakras for an hour and also coding. And I was like, this is my dream. [laughs] I get to talk about chakras, and I get to talk about product. This is great. And so, I work with Sriram sometimes on client work. Normally, the split is that he takes approximately a third of the client sessions, but we work on the one-to-one coaching. And so, I'm your accountability coach. And we're hiring more now, which is really exciting. And I'll do the weekly reviews with clients, and then Sriram will put together the ayurvedic program for the client. So that's always really great fun. And I'm also working with a wonderful designer based in San Francisco called Christina. And yeah, so the three of us...Sriram has his own practice, and Christina has her own agency. But there's a lot of collaborative work that's happening there. And I'm currently onboarding more coaches, which is exciting and very necessary because I came to a choice point, and I said, do I want to study chakras and become qualified? And I realized I didn't. I wanted to talk to all the people who knew about chakras and who were qualified, and so that's been a lovely experience onboarding them, and onboarding therapists, and onboarding other personal development coaches who are going to be able to serve clients as we scale. CHAD: Nice. You mentioned Lunchclub many times in the story of Harbour on the website. I have never used Lunchclub. But I heard of it before. And if folks haven't heard of it, what's the pitch for Lunchclub? [chuckles] NATALIE: It's LinkedIn as you'd want it to be. [laughter] CHAD: Oh, that's great. That's great. NATALIE: I think Lunchclub gets rid of all of the bravado and all of the stuff on LinkedIn because I think a lot of us do really struggle with self-promotion online. But at the same time, we want to connect with people. And we want to have real conversations that hopefully lead to more conversations or more opportunities for both parties. And when I started on Lunchclub about a year and a half ago, it was just an incredible way to connect with people around the world. I'd just moved into a flat. I was living on my own in the middle of the pandemic and in the middle of the lockdown building product. And I thought, I really need to chat to people because I really enjoy doing that. And through 45-minute conversations, you get matched by their little magical AI, and you connect with people who might be related to the interests that you have. And you can build streaks. And the more streaks you build, the more points you get. And the more points you get, the more you can choose who you connect with based on geography and business development goals, et cetera. Well, even if you do choose I want to meet an investor or I want to meet a Biz Dev specialist, this isn't really a sales call or an investment pitch. It's just I want to increase the likelihood that the person I meet will be aligned with where I'm trying to get on my journey. CHAD: Well, the pandemic has been a really difficult time for everybody, parents, and of which I count myself in that. In particular, seeing it across thoughtbot, obviously, a trend is the people who live alone had an especially challenging time during the strictest of the lockdowns that were happening. And it was challenging. We saw a lot of people struggling. And because we were all remote, you're remote all day working. You don't necessarily want to be reaching out to people remotely, just that energy there. And I think that's maybe where Harbour comes in is solving that energy problem that I think many of us are feeling now. NATALIE: Definitely. I think what happened over the last year and a half, two years, has created a tectonic shift, but I think also a portal because it's forced us to reckon with ourselves in ways that perhaps we had been ignoring, in ways that we didn't know we needed to, in ways that we've been forced to. And it can be really scary. And even as an adult, that's weird. It's weird to feel that scared as an adult. It's weird to feel that displaced as an adult. It's weird to feel so unmoored. It's weird to feel like you're starting from scratch again, not necessarily in terms of your career or what you post on LinkedIn about who you are, but inside that, you really are starting from scratch: Who am I without access to my friends? Who am I without access to family members? Who am I without X? Who am I without Y? And so, the pandemic kind of energetically takes everything away, and so we can see ourselves more clearly. And that can be really strange because we haven't had the opportunity to do that in the past. And for many folks, often, we don't engage with mental health or well-being until something goes wrong. And we don't really engage with these ideas until we feel we're at a breaking point. And so the pandemic being the biggest breaking point we've had as a collective, at least in the Western world, we are forced to do that reckoning. And so, of course, it's not just a loneliness pandemic; it's not just a burnout pandemic. I really do think it's an existential pandemic because people are wondering, or at least I am, and I know others who are, and I think others who are listening might be: Who am I? What am I here to do? What's my destiny? Why am I here? What's next? How do I make sense of all of the things that have happened in my life so far? And because there's no noise and no distraction or no busyness much as there was before the pandemic, you really are just there with yourself reckoning with those questions. CHAD: Well, Natalie, I'm happy to see that someone emerged on the other side of this with a new product. NATALIE: [laughs] CHAD: And I wish you the best. NATALIE: Thank you. Thank you very much. CHAD: Again, if folks want to sign up or check it out more or just follow along with you, where are all the places that they can do that? NATALIE: Sure. I would love for folks to connect on Instagram, harbour.today. You can also sign up to our newsletter. We have a daily email that comes out with questions from our community. So folks might ask things along the lines of what I've been describing, and we'll respond with some chakra guidance, some ancient philosophy that might be helpful, and also some practical tools, things that you can do like walking barefoot in your local park. Or some breathing exercises that might help you find balance within, or some yoga can really help you hack your chakras back into alignment, or some scripture that may help you reconnect with your divinity. CHAD: Wonderful. You can subscribe to the show and find notes for this episode at giantrobots.fm. And we are emerging into this new season with full transcripts of every show as well. So you can find those on the website. And it will be included in the show notes, so they appear in your podcast player as well. I'm excited. It's something that we have been talking about doing for a while, but the time and expense of it traditionally was prohibitive. But we've made it happen for this new season in no small thanks to our new editor and producer, Mandy Moore. So if you have questions or comments, email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. And you can find me on Twitter @cpytel. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and edited by Mandy Moore. Announcer: This podcast was brought to you by thoughtbot. thoughtbot is your expert design and development partner. Let's make your product and team a success. Special Guest: Natalie Nzeyimana.

What are some common ways that millennials are codependent? Where do our codependent patterns stem from? How can mindfulness and somatic (body awareness) practices help us combat our codependent ways??? In this week's episode, Marissa sits down with Natalie Moore, LMFT to talk about codependency in millennials. Natalie shares about ways she's observed codependency in her millennial clients and how she helps them start to address it. You'll hear about codependent patterns in young adults, where these patterns come from, and how Natalie incorporates mindfulness and somatic therapy to help her clients become interdependent. It's a must-listen!  About this week's guest: Natalie is a licensed therapist, content creator and expert speaker based in Pasadena. She helps ambitious, creative millennials increase their emotional resiliency and transform limiting patterns to create the life, love and career of their dreams. Natalie incorporates holistic modalities like mindfulness, somatic psychology and breathwork into her work to support the natural healing process. She offers online secure tele-therapy to California resident adults. Natalie's contact info: https://www.awakentheself.com/  https://www.youtube.com/c/awakentheself DOWNLOAD NATALIE'S Somatic Resourcing Guidebook: https://keap.app/contact-us/1474502682335998  More details on this week's episode:     How do you define codependency? Natalie: “Codependency is a relationship dynamic where someone puts the needs of others ahead of their own at the expense of their own needs.”   “Can you share some experiences of codependency from your own life?”  Natalie: “I was in an abusive relationship in my early 20s which, at the foundation of it, was a codependent relationship.” Natalie opens up about his need for control above her own safety, autonomy, and other needs that she had to “come out of and heal from.”  Natalie describes how the relationship was “fueled by codependency.” She was putting his needs before her own, making him more important than her, and believed it when he gaslit her. She was able to end the relationship and heal from it thanks to therapy, her support network, and coping skills.      “What aspect of your own healing do you sense contributed the most to you overcoming your codependent patterns?” Natalie admits “therapy!” (no bias here) Natalie shares how she was able to talk about her goal: “to know myself better.” This helped her develop insight skills of understanding herself, her needs, her personality, and what she needed out of life. She realized that, since she was lost, she was vulnerable to an abusive relationship.  Natalie also talks about support from her family, pursuing new hobbies like hiking, and journaling in order to help her heal from her codependent relationship.      What are 2-3 common codependent patterns that limit the ambitious millennials you work with? Natalie: “There are so many!” The #1 pattern: people saying “yes” all the time. Natalie describes perfection in young women and how they expect themselves to say “yes” to everything and have difficulty saying “no” to things they don't have time, energy, or space for. Natalie really helps her clients connect with what they want. Natalie also adds how she helps clients with a “bridge” behavior where they say “let me think about it...how much notice do you need from me…” so they aren't saying “no” but also aren't saying “yes” as a knee-jerk reaction. #2 pattern: putting others needs above our own. Natalie describes what that looks like in the young adults she works with wanting to be everything to everyone.  #3 pattern: trying to be “nice” all the time. Natalie talks about how, culturally, women have been raised to be nice and how that limits our ability to express our true selves.      “Where do you sense your clients' codependent patterns come from?” Natalie: “Definitely parental modeling.” She describes how there is an implicit and explicit learning process thanks to our parents where “like a fish is living in water,” we take on the norms of our environment. Natalie adds details about how our family and culture both influence us, especially women, to “put our needs last and others first.” She adds how, as adults, we can start to “decondition” ourselves thanks to thinking critically about what we'd like to keep and what we would like to “unlearn.”     How do you help your millennial clients a) become aware of their codependency and b) start to foster interdependence? Natalie: “It starts with understanding what codependency is and how it shows up in their life.” Natalie describes how she helps her clients understand codependency in a manner that makes sense to them. She then helps them envision their life without codependency...THEN WORK TOWARDS THAT. This helps them picture what they want and then use that in making decisions.  Another piece is mindfulness: bringing a non-judgmental awareness to the present moment. What does my breathing feel like right now? How tense are my muscles? What am I hearing? Can I hear the sounds around me? See the colors around me? In order to stop being codependent, you have to know your boundaries. If you have to know what your boundaries are, you have to pay attention to your body.  Natalie provides an example of someone standing too close. If they are standing too close, we can take action and it's okay. Natalie describes how, as a codependent, we tend not to stand up for ourselves BUT the new way of doing it is to: hear your thought, honor your thought, and stand back or ask for more space. “My need to feel safe is just as important as their needs are.”      What is one mindfulness, somatic, or breathwork exercise you would recommend to listeners to incorporate to support their healing from codependency? Natalie: “There is a visualization I like to do with my clients where they imagine what their boundaries look like.” Natalie leads them through to help them picture a vortex, fog, veil, etc. around them and then identify how thick it is, how permeable, and other details for their “boundary.” Natalie shares how her own boundary is like a cell membrane that can allow things in or out but it's up to her.  As always, thank you for listening! www.codependummy.com DOWNLOAD NATALIE'S Somatic Resourcing Guidebook: https://keap.app/contact-us/1474502682335998  https://linktr.ee/codependummy

Todd: So, Natalie, you were saying that you are a foodie.Natalie: I'm a huge foodie.Todd: And you are now in Bangkok, and Bangkok is famous for its street stall food, but that's changing.Natalie: It is, so this is probably 70% of the reason why I moved to Bangkok because of the street food. So, yeah, the street food scene is changing. It seems like they're trying to take the model that's similar to the hawker centers in Singapore, so the hawker centers is basically where all of the street food carts that used to be on the corner of a street - what we call in Thai a soi - they've been moved into one big center, so almost like a deli center. I think it's in an effort to keep things clean, and to just have a hub where you get all of your food. It's easier for tourists. So that's happening a lot. There are pockets of areas in Bangkok where you can still get amazing street food on the street. Particularly in the business districts, like Silom. I think they will struggle to get their street food vendors off the streets because it is so convenient for people. When they leave work, it's right near the elevated sky train that we talked about earlier. People can just grab some noodles ... it's under a dollar ... get their dinner. Or perhaps they get their food to take away and then they go home. And these places are always really busy. There's usually a line to get in one of these street food places. They have little seats, little plastic chairs outside, and little metal tables, so you can eat there, but it is on the street, so there are areas now where you can get amazing street food, but it's not on the street anymore. It's in one of these small hawker-like centers.Todd: Yeah, that's too bad because I ate street food going way back to 25 years ago, when I first moved here, and it's just the best. I never got sick eating street food for all my years. It's always clean and safe, and one of the things I really like about the street stall vendors that people don't talk about is that they're always really nice, and I have a theory about this. The people that own the street stalls, often, that's their own small little business, so they're the one that's in control of it, and I think mentally, they're just happier people. Rather than if you go in some restaurant, the service can be quite poor because that person is kind of in servitude. They're not really in control of their little economic endeavor. So I love the street stall people because they're just so positive.Natalie: Yeah, it does feel more entrepreneurial. And these guys ... something that I love about the street food as well, just while we're on the topic, is you walk down the street in Bangkok and there are all kinds of noises and there's color everywhere ... all the cars, the taxis, are super colorful; they're really famous for that ... but then you'll smell something. You will smell something being grilled, or you'll smell som tum ... this is where they have the pestle and mortar and they're mixing up papaya and salad and garlic, and ... the smell of fried garlic ... if you wanna sell something, just blast the smell of fried garlic out. You will get people in. And that's one of the things that I love about the street food here. And as you say, it is really cheap. And the thing is is these people have most likely been preparing this food since the night before. There is a huge misconception about street food being dirty, and obviously, of course, there are gonna be places that have dirty street food and might make you sick, but the chances are, these people have been preparing these ingredients at home and then they've brought them into their street food cart and they're selling them all day, so they really care about what they're selling. And people go back time and time again. I can say that because I do, and I wouldn't go back if these people didn't make amazing food.Todd: Yeah, and if people were sick, right, then they would lose their business.Natalie: Yeah.Todd: You know, it's almost illogical, because when people think that, "Oh, the street food is dirty," you can see the kitchen. You literally are sitting next to the cook in the kitchen. You can see everything they're doing right in front of you. Whereas in a restaurant, you have no idea what goes on in the kitchen.Natalie: Yeah. So I can give you some advice for street food. Don't be scared of street food. Try it. But there are a couple of things that you can do to make it a little bit safer. If you're getting something that's grilled ... so we have something here called mu ping, which is pork, and it has a kind of sauce on the top of it, it's like coconut and spices, it's delicious ... and you'll get it for 10 baht. But sometimes it'll be sat out, and it might've been out for a while, so maybe you're worried about dirt on it or bacteria growing on it or flies getting on it or something like that. The grill is usually on the cart, so ask the street food vendor ... or just pick it up yourself and put it back on the grill. So that will ... the flames will kill off any bacteria that's on there. Just put it on there for a couple of minutes ... as long as you need to be happy ... and then you can eat it and it will be roasting hot, but you can be assured that there's nothing in it.Todd: And they often do that themselves.Natalie: Yeah.Todd: Even if you don't ask. I've always wondered if they'll just flop it back on there really fast. Another thing that I love that they do in Thailand, too, is if you go to ... it's similar to the street food ... it's the hole-in-the-wall place where literally it's like a room with no door, and it's kind of an outdoor restaurant, and they have the hot water bucket, and you dip your spoon and fork in the hot water bucket. It's the most brilliant idea. It's something that almost restaurants should do, you know what I mean?Natalie: Yeah, it's ingenious.Todd: Yeah, I love that. It's like, "Okay, let's just sterilize it real fast."Natalie: Yeah, so the idea is that the water's usually hot or boiling, so it will kill any bacteria that's on it. If you go to a street food place and perhaps they don't have that but they do have a table and chairs set up ... you get a box, usually, like a rectangular metal box ... and that has your chopsticks in it, or it has your spoon in it, or your knife and ... eh, we don't use knives in Thailand. It would be a spoon and a fork. Just use a napkin, wipe it down before you use it. They will have cleaned it before. I've never had any issue. But if you're not sure, just wipe it down with a napkin. There are always napkins.Todd: Yeah, it's so clever.

Todd: So, Natalie, you were saying that you are a foodie.Natalie: I'm a huge foodie.Todd: And you are now in Bangkok, and Bangkok is famous for its street stall food, but that's changing.Natalie: It is, so this is probably 70% of the reason why I moved to Bangkok because of the street food. So, yeah, the street food scene is changing. It seems like they're trying to take the model that's similar to the hawker centers in Singapore, so the hawker centers is basically where all of the street food carts that used to be on the corner of a street - what we call in Thai a soi - they've been moved into one big center, so almost like a deli center. I think it's in an effort to keep things clean, and to just have a hub where you get all of your food. It's easier for tourists. So that's happening a lot. There are pockets of areas in Bangkok where you can still get amazing street food on the street. Particularly in the business districts, like Silom. I think they will struggle to get their street food vendors off the streets because it is so convenient for people. When they leave work, it's right near the elevated sky train that we talked about earlier. People can just grab some noodles ... it's under a dollar ... get their dinner. Or perhaps they get their food to take away and then they go home. And these places are always really busy. There's usually a line to get in one of these street food places. They have little seats, little plastic chairs outside, and little metal tables, so you can eat there, but it is on the street, so there are areas now where you can get amazing street food, but it's not on the street anymore. It's in one of these small hawker-like centers.Todd: Yeah, that's too bad because I ate street food going way back to 25 years ago, when I first moved here, and it's just the best. I never got sick eating street food for all my years. It's always clean and safe, and one of the things I really like about the street stall vendors that people don't talk about is that they're always really nice, and I have a theory about this. The people that own the street stalls, often, that's their own small little business, so they're the one that's in control of it, and I think mentally, they're just happier people. Rather than if you go in some restaurant, the service can be quite poor because that person is kind of in servitude. They're not really in control of their little economic endeavor. So I love the street stall people because they're just so positive.Natalie: Yeah, it does feel more entrepreneurial. And these guys ... something that I love about the street food as well, just while we're on the topic, is you walk down the street in Bangkok and there are all kinds of noises and there's color everywhere ... all the cars, the taxis, are super colorful; they're really famous for that ... but then you'll smell something. You will smell something being grilled, or you'll smell som tum ... this is where they have the pestle and mortar and they're mixing up papaya and salad and garlic, and ... the smell of fried garlic ... if you wanna sell something, just blast the smell of fried garlic out. You will get people in. And that's one of the things that I love about the street food here. And as you say, it is really cheap. And the thing is is these people have most likely been preparing this food since the night before. There is a huge misconception about street food being dirty, and obviously, of course, there are gonna be places that have dirty street food and might make you sick, but the chances are, these people have been preparing these ingredients at home and then they've brought them into their street food cart and they're selling them all day, so they really care about what they're selling. And people go back time and time again. I can say that because I do, and I wouldn't go back if these people didn't make amazing food.Todd: Yeah, and if people were sick, right, then they would lose their business.Natalie: Yeah.Todd: You know, it's almost illogical, because when people think that, "Oh, the street food is dirty," you can see the kitchen. You literally are sitting next to the cook in the kitchen. You can see everything they're doing right in front of you. Whereas in a restaurant, you have no idea what goes on in the kitchen.Natalie: Yeah. So I can give you some advice for street food. Don't be scared of street food. Try it. But there are a couple of things that you can do to make it a little bit safer. If you're getting something that's grilled ... so we have something here called mu ping, which is pork, and it has a kind of sauce on the top of it, it's like coconut and spices, it's delicious ... and you'll get it for 10 baht. But sometimes it'll be sat out, and it might've been out for a while, so maybe you're worried about dirt on it or bacteria growing on it or flies getting on it or something like that. The grill is usually on the cart, so ask the street food vendor ... or just pick it up yourself and put it back on the grill. So that will ... the flames will kill off any bacteria that's on there. Just put it on there for a couple of minutes ... as long as you need to be happy ... and then you can eat it and it will be roasting hot, but you can be assured that there's nothing in it.Todd: And they often do that themselves.Natalie: Yeah.Todd: Even if you don't ask. I've always wondered if they'll just flop it back on there really fast. Another thing that I love that they do in Thailand, too, is if you go to ... it's similar to the street food ... it's the hole-in-the-wall place where literally it's like a room with no door, and it's kind of an outdoor restaurant, and they have the hot water bucket, and you dip your spoon and fork in the hot water bucket. It's the most brilliant idea. It's something that almost restaurants should do, you know what I mean?Natalie: Yeah, it's ingenious.Todd: Yeah, I love that. It's like, "Okay, let's just sterilize it real fast."Natalie: Yeah, so the idea is that the water's usually hot or boiling, so it will kill any bacteria that's on it. If you go to a street food place and perhaps they don't have that but they do have a table and chairs set up ... you get a box, usually, like a rectangular metal box ... and that has your chopsticks in it, or it has your spoon in it, or your knife and ... eh, we don't use knives in Thailand. It would be a spoon and a fork. Just use a napkin, wipe it down before you use it. They will have cleaned it before. I've never had any issue. But if you're not sure, just wipe it down with a napkin. There are always napkins.Todd: Yeah, it's so clever.

Natalie Proenca conquered breast cancer for over 10 years. Her cancer diagnosis was in 2008 with conventional treatment. Then a few years later she had tumors in ovaries and uterus. Her oncologist confirmed that it was caused by hormonal therapy. She took this chance and used a natural approach and treated it by changing diet and exercises. She has transformed herself using mind-body-spirit and decided to leave her Software Engineer career and was trained as a Cancer Coach with BeatCancer and TrulyHeal, and certified Holistic Integrative Health Coach with IIN. She is also a certified Plant-based Nutrition Graduate at eCornell (with T. Colin Campbell). She's helped many cancer patients recover from the treatments and even help them healed from different types of cancer such as breast cancer, cervical cancer, ovarian cancer, lung cancer, kidney cancer, colon cancer, thyroid cancer, and brain cancer. She offers online programs; Colon & Kidney Detox and Beat Cancer Naturally. She has a strong passion to guide you to find the best protocol for you to fight cancer and get well. Connect with her on facebook.com/Natalie.Proenca or email at CoachNatalieProenca@gmail.com or 508-282-6698. Natalie:  For someone who just found out that they've been diagnosed with cancer. What should they do? I think the very first thing you need to understand is that you have had cancer for years. You did not have cancer two days ago or two months ago, it has been for a long time. It could take seven to ten or twenty years. If you have lung cancer, it could be thirty years. So do not rush. I want you to step back and then just take a quiet moment and ask yourself, how did you get cancer and what you should do next. Most people, when they learn that they have cancer, get frustrated. They have fears. When you make decisions with fears, you make the wrong decision. I want you to learn, I want you to search, ask people who have been there, who have experience guide you, what you should do. So you have the right path. You don't want to try left and right and back and forth. You're going to lose time. Even though I said, you have been having cancer for a long time, but sometimes when you choose the wrong road, you're losing time and the cancer, it's true that it's growing all the time, but it's not as fast as when you know it. Think about two years, five years ago, you did not know that you have cancer. You never care about cancer. You never really think about it, but now you know that you have cancer, you start having fears, you start worry and that causes cancer to grow very fast. So the first thing you should do is to just step back and ask yourself, what is the right protocol for you? You want to do conventional, or you want to do naturally or you want to do integrative? I want you to sit down and then take a piece of paper and write down pros and cons of each approach and think about what will fit your lifestyle the most, and what's best for yourself because each approach is not the best for everyone. You have to come up with your own protocol and that's the very first step that I want to suggest to anyone that has just been diagnosed with cancer. Intro: Hello and welcome to the Beat Cancer Answer brought to you by beatcancer.org. The center for advancement in cancer education. Carl: This is Carl Wagner. I'm here with Beat Cancer. We're here with another one of our great coaches, Natalie Parenza and I'm going to just shut up and let her speak. So Natalie, please tell us a little bit about yourself, your journey and how you came to beat cancer? Natalie: My name is Natalie. My journey about cancer; I have been diagnosed since 2008, when my youngest son was just 10 months old. I had breast cancer and my son was just learning how to walk. At that time  I had no knowledge. I had no information about alternative medicine or alternative approaches so I don't know what to do. I just took the conventional treatment, just like a lot of people did. So I had surgery, I had chemotherapy, radiation. Then one day I saw one of my friends, she had cancer returned. She had breast cancer before and then she had cancer returned. The second time she had brain cancer and she didn't make it and I have seen a lot of people and I started to realize that conventional treatment is not the answer. I had that experience myself. I was on Tamoxifen, I was on hormone therapy for two years, then it started showing tumor in my ovaries and uterus. So the doctor kept watching the tumor growing, by that time I already told myself that I don't want to be like others, I don't want cancer to return. What should I do? I start taking control of my health and I start searching for the answer, how can I be cancer free? So I study a lot. I started reading books, any books about cancer, I just read it and I started changing my lifestyle, changing my diet. So I told my doctor that I don't want any surgery anymore. I don't want any drugs, nothing. So I started changing, implementing a new diet. I make green smoothie every day and then start cutting meat one by one until finally I was able to switch everything. So I was on a plant based at some point. So I'm not completely vegan or vegetarian, I'm just trying to find what is best for me. So six months after that, the doctor said, what did you do? Your tumor is gone, but the doctor's still giving me Tamoxifen, I still kept taking it because she said, I'm still young. I was diagnosed when I was 36 and she said, okay, because you have an aggressive type, your cancer can come back in five years so you should be on hormone therapy. So I told my doctor that I don't want anything removed, no more surgery. So the first time the tumor was gone, she just said it was a surprise. Maybe it was something of a fault test or something. So I kept taking Tamoxifen more and more and the tumor started growing again. The second time I was able to shrink the tumor, it happened three times until my oncologist said, okay, yes, your hormone therapy is actually causing your tumor to grow. So it took three times for my oncologist to convince me that it was the hormone of therapy that caused that. I knew that, so that time I already have knowledge, I already know what to do with my body so I was not afraid of cancer anymore. So that's my turning point, that's why I want to take control of myself and I start changing. It seems like I have my new life since then. So I have been doing this for more than 10 years now. I've been cancer free for 10 years. Carl: Congratulations. Natalie: Thank you so much, that's how I started to really pay attention and really interested and I want to become a cancer coach and help other people. Carl: Yeah. Make your cancer mean something. Natalie: It does. Carl: Yes. So I hear many similar stories. In fact I might've shared this before with some other coaches, but my mother had breast cancer and she did radiation and I'm not sure if she did chemo, I was pretty young at the time. So she was a statistic of somebody who lived through breast cancer because she lasted more than five years. So they say you're a survivor, but she did die of cancer and it was cancer and that was in her intestinal area. It was actually on top of it. It was strange. So just like you said, the cancer came back and just like you said, a lot of people that the cancer comes back, they must change their lifestyle. Natalie: So that was the thing that I started questioning because when I took the conventional treatment, I did not have any knowledge. My doctor did not tell me, she just said, oh, you can eat everything, but just reduce red meat to just a couple of meals per week and I hear a lot of information from my friends, from the media and it just gets confusing. At some point at the beginning, I actually refused everything because I don't trust anyone. Then I realized why a lot of people have cancer return. So conventional treatment is not the answer. Then I start searching for the truth. Then I realized that, oh my God, I have to do something because I don't want to be like others that have cancer return again. So that's what I start searching and learning and learning and here I am, I believe that my knowledge can help others and if I can save someone's life or someone can use my information, my knowledge that I have been studying for more than 10 years, I want to help other, I want to be the person who opening that door and show them and tell them here. There are so many roads, so many paths that you can choose how to get well without using a conventional treatment or if you want to integrate it both, you have to do something. You have to protect yourself, not to really get cancer again; I have seen some people, some of my clients, that they did not prepare themselves and then when they receive chemotherapy or radiation and they just get sick and sicker, and then they cannot tolerate the medicine, they cannot tolerate the drugs and they didn't make it and that is so sad.  That is why this information is not there for people to know this. Carl: Yeah. It seems that well here in America, when somebody has any type of heart issue, anything, they usually leave the doctor's office with a laundry list of things to do, eat less salt, get more exercise, lose some weight, less red meat. But when we go to the oncology office with cancer, they don't tell you anything it seems, at least in regards to how you can participate in your own healing the way that they deal with heart issues say you get to be a participant, you get to be part of the healing process. So yeah, and what you said about integrative approach. So we don't ever say to anybody don't follow your doctor's advice that would just put us out of business in a heartbeat and set us up for liability. But we absolutely do say look with what our advice is let's change the terrain of your body. Let's get you in the best position for your body to help itself heal because the medicines and the radiation do not heal the cancer, it kills the cancer. Natalie: And it's temporary. Those treatments kill the cancer but just for a very short time. Carl: Right. Right. And you've got to change your lifestyle like you said, like you did, an excellent example, right. You're a role model and that's a great thing. You show how you can come back and have a vibrant life. Yeah, love it. So how did you find beat cancer? Natalie: So I have been studying, searching, I'm always learning and I actually want more and more information. Then I took health coach training from IIN Institute for Integrative Nutrition.  When I'm done with that it gives me an overview of how to become a health coach, but then I want a specific cancer coach. Then I Google it and I have been looking for many, many places and this is it. When I watched the video, when I watched Susan talking and I was like, I have to enroll into this program and that's how I found beat cancer.org. Carl: Oh, that's great. That's great. So what was it about the course that you feel that you gained knowledge wise that helped you over the other things that you have already learned? Natalie: My favorite part, I have three favorites. One is the mind, body, spirit part; I never heard it from anywhere about characteristics of cancer patients, especially Susan summarized more than 30,000 patients that she interviewed and she summarized each type of cancer, breast cancer, uterus cancer, kidney and lung cancer. It's just amazing that when I look at myself, I ask myself, yes, is this true and moreover, I try to use that information because I already started having clients before. So I start asking questions when they come to me, I ask, okay, what type of cancer do you have? And I started applying the knowledge from what I learned from Beat Cancer and every single one said it correctly, how did I know that? It seems like I'm a fortune teller, but I said based on the studies as Susan did that and I was like it is amazing for me about my body's connection about each type of cancer. So that's my first impression is my favorite information that I learned from beat cancer. The second one is the document. Oh my God, it was just like massive, all what I want to know including diet, what to eat, what not to eat and there the chart about the mind, the spirit, the spiritual, what to do, the A-Z kinds of food, the superfood, everything, all the documentation that this organization gathered. It's so valuable, it's much more than the tuition fee that I paid. Honestly, you get a lot more. The bonus is a plus, everything that I want to learn about cancer that is always document there. So the third part that I like a lot is the example of the interview, the case study and showing real examples, how to interview and how to ask questions, how to ask the right question to clients and observation about the patient, when they respond and what we should ask and that I think is very good. I didn't learn from anywhere else. So that's my, the best favorite parts that I learned that's a lot more than that though. It's a lot, but if I pick the top three, that would be it. Carl: Yeah. The bonus area was something I did after Susan retired. I felt like everything that we had in digital format, all the books, all the videos, all the audio recordings, I wanted our coaches to have all of that and I just threw it all in. Everything that she's ever done for 35 years I wanted you guys to have it. So I'm glad you mentioned that, that makes me feel good that you took advantage of that and enjoyed that. Natalie: Oh, I go through everything. I cannot remember everything though. I think I have to go through that again and again, there's so much information and I'm just so excited. I was one of those people that was really crazy about learning. I never stopped learning, and this is always something for me to learn. Carl: Yeah. It's just the beginning that our course is just the beginning. It's to set you on the right course for your journey and I don't know; where are you working at right now? Natalie: Where am I working right now? Carl: No, no, your country. Natalie: Oh, I'm originally from Thailand and most of my clients, they are Thai, but they're living in the US; most of my clients they are in Thailand and I have people from all over the world. Some people, some Thai people live in Germany, New Zealand, Switzerland and some in France,.It's very exciting to be a coach and I'm able to help people around the world. Carl: Yeah. I love it. I love it. It just seems like we get one person and all of a sudden all over the world, they're teaching people and I love it that you're teaching the Taiwanese and bringing it to the Taiwanese culture and you're just a shining example. Natalie: Yes. Especially when I've been living in the US more than 20 years. When I talk to Thai people about cancer, they don't have information like how I have here. So I see that's why no one tell them about this. There may be cancer coaches in Thailand that I haven't met, but I see that there are some information that is very valuable, that they should know about this and I started with clients in Thailand first because I wanted to help them and I also have clients here in the US as well. I just see that Thai people need someone to really share this information, because it's a lot of information. I see that they're still; I was thinking about myself 10 years ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. Nobody tells me anything about alternatives, so I think Thailand, it just like back then there's still like, everything is about chemotherapy. You must take chemotherapy only, radiation only and you should not take any supplements because it's going to interfere with chemotherapy. So when I heard that from Thai people, I was like no, no, no, no, that's not true. All this information, I don't want to put the word that they are behind here. It's just nobody delivered this message to them. So that's why I want to tell them and I also have lots of people and friends back in Thailand that have cancer. So I start with that. Carl: So with the cookbooks and the A-Z guide do you feel that there's enough variety in there to cook Thai style with those foods? Natalie: Oh, that's a very good point because when I start talking about changing diet, eating plant based, people wondering what is the plant based diet. We know that we need to eat plants, but exactly how? And then when I start talking about eating salad, people would just really put that off because, oh, no, that's only food for Western. It's just the name of the dish. I said, don't think about it as a Western dish, you should eat as close as natural as possible. So it's true that the salad dish, the diet that we learn here in the US, it doesn't fit the culture in Thailand because people eat a lot of cooked food, curry. They use a lot of curry. They eat fresh, raw vegetables, but in a different way, a very different way. So when I started to eat salad, everybody thought about salad dressing in a way that you have to use eggs and oil. Carl: Yeah. Well, maybe you'll have to come up with some great Thai recipes. Natalie: Then I started learning more and more, also using the Thai culture, the food in Thailand, what is safe for cancer patients? So I started an online course. Carl: Oh, great. Natalie: Yes. So I started the online course, I started with colon and liver detoxification and introducing green juice and changing diet and doing coffee enema, helping people to get rid of the toxins. Then I launched another online course beating cancer naturally. Then I start introducing using the Gerson therapy protocol and mixed with some of the vegetables that people can use and can find in Thailand and so I use Gerson therapy as my core that's because I learned Gerson therapy before I found beat cancer. Carl: Right. Right. And while we're not just one therapy, it seems like, I think we kind of give you a broad array of tools to use instead of just one singular approach. But you are right, we are mostly plant based and so is Gerson. Natalie: Right, right. Carl: Yeah. Well, that's great. You made the courses, you already beat me to it. I just didn't know about it. That's excellent. So okay, I'm going to give you the bonus question and, of course, I want you to tell people where they can find you, because if they're just listening to this on a podcast I want them to know where to find you. But the bonus question is if you could just give one tip to somebody getting started what would that be? The getting started in their cancer journey? Natalie: For someone who just found out that they've been diagnosed with cancer, I think the very first thing you need to understand is that you have cancer for years, you did not have cancer two days ago or two months ago, it has been for a long time. It could take seven to ten or twenty years. If you have lung cancer, it could be 30 years. So do not rush. I want you to step back and then just take a quiet moment and ask yourself, how did you get cancer and what you should do next. Most people, when they learn that they have cancer, they get frustrated, they have fears. When you make a decision with fears, you make the wrong decision. I want you to learn, I want you to search, ask people who have been there, who have experience, guide you what you should do so you have the right path. You don't want to try left and right and back and forth, you're going to lose time. Even though I said you have been having cancer for a long time, sometimes when they choose the wrong road, you're losing time and the cancer, it's true that it's growing all the time, but it's not as fast as when you know it. Think about two years, five years ago, you did not know that you have cancer. You never care about cancer. You never really think about it but now you know that you have cancer you start having fears, you start worry and that causes cancer to grow very fast. So the first thing you should do is to just step back and ask yourself, what is the right protocol for you? You want to do conventional or you want to do naturally all you want to do an integrative? I want you to sit down and then take a piece of paper and write down pros and cons of each approach and think about what will fit your lifestyle the most, and what's best for yourself because each approach is not the best for everyone. You have to come up with your own protocol and that's the very first step that I want to suggest to anyone that just diagnosed with cancer. Carl: That's great. Just take a step back, that is a problem, people get rushed right in, hurry up and take this protocol and they don't have any time to think and the family too, the family is scared, they just want you to do what the doctor says. I think it's really good advice to slow it down. Make sure you do what's right for you. Very good, excellent advice. Natalie: And finding the right doctor, good doctor, that's also very important. My doctor never rushed me actually, when I searched for a doctor, when I found out that I had cancer, it was very bad timing. I was about to travel to Thailand. I have a couple of days to fly and it was during the Christmas and New Year season. I'm about to fly to Thailand and my doctor called me, said the result, the tests came back and it was cancer. So I was in denial mode, I did not believe that so I thought it was a joke. So a lot of people may have that feeling. I thought it was a flu. Okay. I have a flu and a few days it will go away, until the next day I start to realize, this is no kidding. This is real. So I asked my doctor and she said, well, you are going to be on vacation, just go, a couple of weeks will not make a difference. So my doctor let me travel and enjoy my life. Enjoy my vacation, she said, when you come back then you can start thinking about a treatment. I have heard someone that have doctors told them, no, you need surgery. You need chemotherapy right away. Carl: I've heard that too. Natalie: And that made you even more nervous. Oh my God, I cannot wait a couple of days is going to be that bad. My life is going to end and that's when people get so frustrated. The more you rush, the more fears you have, and then you made the wrong decision. Carl: Yeah. Yeah. And sometimes it plants a seed in your head as well. Some people just die exactly on time when their doctors say they would. They're great doctors, but they're not psychic. Why is it three months on the day or a six months on the day or one year on the day? It's an amazing thing, a power that a healer has in their hands, just by what they tell you. Your doctor told you, good, go enjoy yourself. Don't worry about it for now. Yeah. It's a bad thing to hear right before you go on vacation, but then I'll take this time to just relax and then come back and we'll talk. Yeah, that was very good. So do you have anything else that you'd like to relate to our listeners and our watchers before we close it up? Natalie: I have some good stories to share, some of my clients. Carl: Yeah, that would be wonderful. Natalie: Can I share? I have been coaching many people around the world by now. I have some story that is really catchy for me. One lady, she just watched my YouTube video. She had lung cancer stage three, but her doctor told her that she would not survive more than three months. So she didn't start with stage three lung cancer. She started with stage one, as I said, when you know you have cancer, you have fears and that's how the tumor started growing really quickly. In only a few months, her tumor, her cancer grew to be stage three in a few months, it's growing really big and she went to see another doctor. So it was already stage three and the doctor said, you must do chemotherapy. If not, you will have only three months to live. Somehow, something happened, someone shared my video and she just watched that video and she said, this is it. She's going to try. She didn't want to have chemotherapy. So she went back home and started growing her own vegetables. She heard that coach Natalie said that you've got to eat organic vegetables and stop eating meat for her type of cancer, she did that. Three months later, she started having a checkup. Six months later, she had the test again and the doctor was surprised her tumor is gone. She did not tell me until two years after that, two more years, her sister actually sent me a message to thank me that your video saved my sister's life two years ago, my sister watched your video and she did not speak Thai properly because she's not Thai. She understands Thai and I was like my knowledge, my information, and my video that I posted on YouTube can save someone's life and it just like, keep me going and I want to do more of this. So I actually saved someone's life by someone just watching my video on YouTube, on how to change the diet and what to do and that's one of the stories that I want to know. It's one of the style that I really want to share that in someone that no longer has hope, when the doctor said you have only three months, six months to live. Hope is powerful and I want to be the person who delivered that hope and it's not as false hope because if one person can come back from stage four from bedridden, and then they become alive again, they can heal from cancer by themselves. If one person can do it there are more people who can do it and I think you can do it too. So that's what I want to deliver this message that doesn't lose hope. There's always hope if you're still alive. Carl: Yeah. We've seen that many times. We never say that we heal people from cancer because we don't, we just give them the tools that they need to allow their bodies to do the work that they're supposed to do. Natalie: And I have another story. This lady, she was in my group coaching. I have a six month group coaching program that I meet them every two weeks. So this lady she's 70 years old. The first cancer diagnosis was a couple years, about four years back, she had kidney cancer. She has surgery. She had the tumor removed, but she refused chemotherapy and no radiation, but she did not change her lifestyle. She did not change the diet. So four years later, which is this year 2020, at the beginning of the year, her cancer came back second time and the tumor, it was really, really close to where she had surgery before. So this is proof that you cannot cut out cancer. You have to really treat the real cause, you have to get rid of the cancer stem cell. So when she had cancer, the second time she chose not to do surgery and again, no radiation, no chemotherapy and she found me. So she joined a group coaching program and I gave her information. I give her the tool and I give them advice on what to do. Six months after the program ended, she had herself scanned and her doctor said, your tumor is gone. You no longer have cancer. It was really, really amazing. She's 70 years old, but she's willing to learn. She's willing to change her lifestyle, which is not very easy for someone who is 70. Carl: She really wanted it. She really wanted it. Yeah. Natalie: So this story, it just shows me that someone 70 year old can do it so you can do it too. It just you have the right tool, you have the right information and you have to believe, you have to believe in yourself and you have to trust yourself. That's what I want to say. Carl: Yeah. It's so hard when you're getting conflicting advice from people that are supposed to be smarter than you because they have letters after their name but like you said, you have to trust your gut. You have to trust your instinct. You have to take time to reflect and use the tools that are presented to you and I love that. I think your whole video should be called you can do it too and I think that's great. It's the truth. Yeah. Other people did it and you can do it too. Yeah. You got another one? Natalie: I do have a lot actually, but this is my top two. You want to hear more? What type of cancer you want to hear? I actually help someone healed from cancer, many types of cancer. I started with breast cancer. I have someone really healed from breast cancer without surgery, without chemo and radiation. Then my second one uterus cancer, kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, lung cancer, colon cancer, brain cancer. Carl: Yeah. Amazing stuff. Amazing. Yeah. Natalie: So what type of cancer do you want to hear the story? Carl: So well, it's getting a bit long. So what we'll do is do you have videos in English or is it all in Thai? Natalie: It's all in Thai. I haven't done it in English yet. Carl: Okay. Natalie: I will start that really soon. Carl: Yeah. Yeah. And we'll connect all your videos into our we have a playlist in YouTube, so we can list your videos in our playlist we'll list. We'll list what you have in Thai, but it'll be great for you to do an English two. Natalie: I will. Carl: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Natalie: I will be posting the video in English soon. Carl: Okay. So tell us podcast listeners how we can find you and your website and everything. Natalie: If you're here in the US you can send me a text message on my cell phone, (508) 282-6698 or you want to send me email coachnataleeparenza@gmail.com. We can provide you information right below this message, right? Carl: Yeah. Yeah. I'll put it up. I'll put everything in the show notes Natalie: coachnatalieproenca@gmail.com, or you can find me on Facebook. I'm always on Facebook and Instagram, my Facebook, I have personal webpage, Natalie Proenca or you want to find me, you can search “stop cancer with Natalie” in English, or in Thai: “หยุดมะเร็งกับโค้ชนาตาลี”. Then I have this Facebook page and you can find a lot of videos about how to beat cancer naturally or integratively. If  you decide to take chemotherapy, you need to take supplements and what supplements are right for you and how the diet will help you to get through chemotherapy and get well sooner. I have a lot of information on my Facebook page and on Instagram it's Coach Natalie and YouTube channel health coach Natalie. Or you can go to my website, healthcoachnatalie.com. Carl: Terrific. Wow. You're everywhere. Terrific. Well, thank you so much for taking some time with us today and sharing your stories. You're an inspiration and you're already an established coach, even before us. So I think that's wonderful and I love your stories of healing and your insights. Thank you so much. Natalie: Thank you so much. Thanks for watching. Outro: If we helped you learn just one thing today, about how to prevent cope with or beat cancer, then we have succeeded in our mission. Please remember to like, subscribe and comment. We appreciate all of your feedback and love your suggestions, your positive ratings, help us to get discovered so we can help save more lives. Thank you again for joining us and best wishes for good health from all of us beatcancer.org.

When 11 year old Elise Sammis applied for the Food Network's Kids Baking Championship, she didn’t think twice about telling them - right up front - that she lives with type 1 diabetes. She says she wanted everyone to know in order to show that diabetes wouldn't keep her from her love of baking, or anything else. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Turns out, there's another young woman with type 1 on the show this season! You can learn more about Naima Winston here. Stacey met Elise & her mom, Natalie, at an event in South Carolina. They spoke about the show, the stress and her diagnosis two years ago at Disney world. Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! In TMSG - good news at the dentist - and it wasn’t about cavities.. and we'll share a story of a lot of spirit at Walt Disney World Marathon weekend. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode transcript (rough transcription, please forgive grammar, spelling, punctuation) -----------Stacey Simms 0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes, and by Dexcom take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom. Announcer: This is diabetes connections with Stacey Simms. Stacey Simms 0:23 This week, when 11 year old Elise Sammis applied for the Food Network's kids Baking Championship. She didn't think twice about telling them right up front - she lives with Type 1 diabetes. Elise Sammis 0:36 No, that was very important to me, because I wanted like everyone to know that if you have diabetes, you can still do the things that you want to do. And it was super cool because there was another girl named Naima. She's my super good friend and she had also had type one, and she's super sweet. And we were both like, yay, we both have type one! Stacey Simms 0:52 That's right. There are two young women with T1D competing on this season of the show. I met Elise at an event recently, and I talked to her and her mom about the show the stress, enter diagnosis at Disney World in Tell me something good. Good news at the dentist and it's not about cavities and a lot of spirit at Walt Disney World marathon weekend. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Welcome to another week of diabetes connections. I am so glad you're here. We aim to educate and inspire about type 1 diabetes by sharing stories of connection. I'm your host Stacey Simms. My son was diagnosed 13 years ago right before he turned two. The show this week is airing a little earlier than usual. Yeah, we almost always drop the interview show the longer show of the week on Tuesday. But because the Kids Baking Championship is on the Food Network on Monday nights. I thought it would just be fun to release the show with Elise on the day of her show. I love the baking shows, and we used to watch them. I feel like it was around the clock for a couple of years my daughter got into them right around the same age as Elise between the ages of like nine and 12. We've watched so many of these baking shows, we made cupcakes, we didn't ever compete. My daughter never wanted to be on TV like that. But it was great. And we certainly got a lot of comments about the cupcakes because I would post them on social media and I'll put some pictures up in the Facebook group because these were, you know, really big. I mean, they weren't beautiful, but they were sharks and cupcakes that look like popcorn and you know, all the dramatic fun stuff. And people would say all the time. Oh, it's too bad that your daughter has that hobby. What are you doing about your son? And I'm like, I'm not letting him eat 17 cupcakes, but I'm not letting her eat 17 cupcakes either. You know, it's fine with Type 1 diabetes, you just have to know exactly what you're eating. Right? It does take extra work. But now go ahead eat the cupcake. And with those memories right in the back of my mind, it was even more fun to talk to Elise and to Natalie It is always a bit dicey talking to reality show contestants. You know, we've done this before, and it is always fun. But it's not just about what they can't say because here obviously they can't talk about the show, even though it's taped weeks and weeks months ago, but because you never know they could win the whole thing. They could be off the show before this episode even airs. But I'm so thrilled that Elise is is one of two girls on the show with Type 1 diabetes and it was great to talk to her and her mom and no matter what happens on the show, she is well on her way quite a personality and really just a fun kid. All right, first Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop and getting diabetes supplies is a pain and not only the ordering and the picking up, but also the arguing with insurance over what they say you need and what you really need. Make it easy with One Drop. They offer personalized test trip plans, plus you get a Bluetooth glucose meter, test strips, lancets and your very own certified diabetes coach. Subscribe today to get test strips for less than $20 a month delivered right to your door. No prescriptions or co pays required. One less thing to worry about. not that surprising when you learn the founder of One Drop lives with type one. They get it. One Drop, gorgeous gear supplies delivered to your door 24 seven access to your certified diabetes coach. learn more, go to diabetes connections dot com and click on the One Drop logo. My guests this week are Elisa Sammis and her mother Natalie. Elise is a contestant on this season's Food Network kids baking show. She was diagnosed with type one at age nine and we talked about her diagnosis. But she was already baking a lot by then. And luckily her family realized you can continue to bake and enjoy dessert even with Type 1 diabetes. Being on a big show like this is a great chance to educate and what's really fun is as we mentioned, Elise isn't doing it alone. There's another young woman on the show Naima Winston from Baltimore is her name and I will put some links and information on our episode homepage, where there is also a transcript about Elise about Naima about the show and more information. So please check that out. That's a diabetes dash connections.com. And while you're there, please note every episode from the last four years is there you may be intimidated to scroll through I get asked all the time, what's the best order? I actually think the best way to listen is either to use the search box and put in whatever interests you Disney, Dexcom, Tandem, Omnipod, right or you can search by category as well. If you click on the tab that says all episodes, you'll see another search box to the right and then filter by category. And that is a really great way to dial into what you want the categories including advocates, athletes, artists, actors, education, technology, travel, family, you know, there's a whole bunch of ways to narrow this down because we've got more than 270 episodes now Holy cow. And I really urge you to go take a stroll through and see what interests you. Quick note, this interview was done on the road, I was speaking at the JDRF chapter, the Palmetto chapter in South Carolina. So the sound quality is a little bit different than when I'm doing things in the studio. And I may be a little soft at times. I'll tell you about the technical nonsense that happened. I'll tell you about that at the end of the show. So let's get to it. Here is my interview with Elise and Natalie Sammis. Let me start with you, Natalie. How did you guys even find out about this? How do you get your kids on a show like this? Elise Sammis 6:38 Well, actually, I didn't get my kid on the show. Elise put herself on the show. Basically, we live in the south and hurricanes are prevalent. And about a year and a half ago, at least you think it was Hurricane Matthew and we got five days off of school. And so I was very bored around the house. So I looked up, like, because I like to bake and I was getting into it. So I looked up like baking competitions and I saw like form so that we could, like fill out a form so that we could try out. And so I made a video for it and I sent it into them. And after that we didn't hear until like six months later. Stacey Simms 7:23 So during that five days and your home and baking was that your first foray? Was that your first time into baking or is it something you'd always like to do? Elise Sammis 7:30 I'd pretty much always like to bake from like, I guess like when I got diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes when I was nine, it was really stressful. So it was just really like stress relieving to be able to bake and it was like creative. Stacey Simms 7:46 Alright, so we have an audience that knows about diabetes. But what you just said when I was diagnosed with type one I found it really stress relieving – that could sound strange. What were your thoughts as she was enjoying this as a younger kid? Natalie Sammis 8:06 The two background stories, I think that are important in this piece are that a I am an avid Baker. And so literally, sugar is in my blood at all times. No, I my motto is dinner is always just a means to dessert. That is my life motto since a small child. And also number two, I'm actually an RN, I have my Bachelor's of Science and nursing. So I understand the principles. I understand that Yeah, you skirt the line a little bit closer. When it comes to desserts. It is a little bit more complicated in your carb counting. But it's also it's very doable. It's not off the table. It's not something that someone should be terrified of. It's something that you can balance and put into your life. And also we realized that half the time that we bake, we don't even eat it really we are sharing it with our friends or we're posting it like on social media to feel unify with other people. People It is really, truly a creative outlet for us probably like how people feel with art, but I don't get art and I cannot eat art. So we just go with the dessert side of the world and we like it and we make friends by giving people desserts. Stacey Simms 9:15 How old were you when you were diagnosed? Elise Sammis 9:17 It was the day after my ninth birthday, and we were in Disney. And there was my birthday and my mom actually fed me a chocolate chip cookie for breakfast. Right there. So we were like noticing a lot of symptoms. I was really thirsty all the time. So then my mom took me to the urgent care clinic, the CBS for CBS. And like the MinuteClinic the MinuteClinic Yep, yep. And I got and she got a glucose meter and she thought as a UTI at first. Natalie Sammis 9:52 Right. So she took a blood sugar first and it just read error. When the very first meter read error. The nurse in me problem solving. I thought, ooh, there's something wrong with the machinery that that Wait a second, I know how to litmus test this. So I stuck my own finger, I tested my own blood sugar and it said 96 I still remember the number and my heart sunk. I knew at that moment, deep down that she had diabetes, but I didn't even then didn't want to admit it. Because, you know, that's the worst. So we went to the urgent care and the urgent care. I still remember they looked at us like we were crazy because we walked in. And Elise is holding a Diary of a Wimpy Kid book. And she's just flipping through and reading it and she has a bottle of water in one hand, because at that point, I said, You drink as much as you can. Right? Right, right. Just drink this. And I said, I think my daughter might have diabetes. They look at me, like, does she fall down? Did she pass out? Like I'm like, No, but she's drinking me. Are you from the area? No, we're on vacation at Disney. And they're like, so you stopped your Disney vacation and you think she has diabetes? I'm like, I know. I basically said tell me I'm crazy. I want to walk out of here laughing like I'm just a paranoid Mom, I just cannot in good faith just go back home after seeing the error recording and having those symptoms and I just need to know so we waited quite a while because we were not on the urgent list at that point. And even the doctor said, I think it's probably just a UTI. But he respected my wish to check your blood sugar. And at that moment, their meter read error Hi. And they said he pulled out his personal cell phone and said go directly to Orlando Children's Hospital. Stacey Simms 11:31 Do you remember any of that? I mean, nine is old enough, but sometimes things get confusing. Do you remember like, anything that your mom was saying? Or what's going on in the hospital? Elise Sammis 11:39 Well, I remember that like when I got in there. I was asking like, Is it ever going to go away and everything then I remember the turkey bacon was disgusting Natalie Sammis 11:49 They put her on this restricted carb diet. So all she could eat with like a massive amounts of turkey bacon, Elise Sammis 11:57 turkey bacon. like sugar free jello. Stacey Simms 12:03 So did you ever get back to Disney World? Natalie Sammis 12:05 Yeah, we did we After that we went to Hollywood Studios. We took it that Disney paid for us for a taxi or an Uber. I can't remember which one back to our place that we were staying in the other. My Elise is the oldest of four children. So the other kids and my husband were already at the party because we said go on without us because we had been in the hospital for about three and a half days. And we got in that taxi cab we threw our suitcases in there and we saw the next bus to Disney and we ran our little hearts out and barely caught the bus and we didn't get to do too much that day. And then we went home the next day but Disney was kind enough to give us passes to come back and when we had kind of our life under control a little bit more and we understood more about diabetes in real life. We came back probably three months later in May Elise Sammis 12:52 is a lot better experience than the last. It was a lot more fun. Okay, Stacey Simms 12:57 so after Disney World when you go home You say you figured out diabetes in a bad life? You were already enjoying baking at that point. After all that turkey bacon. Were you worried? Like that's it for baking or cupcakes? Or did your mom kind of jumped right back into it with you? Elise Sammis 13:14 Well, for about a week later, I was like, I don't even know like what I can or can't eat. And so we like kind of researched a lot. And then I was like, wait, I don't have to just not eat sugar. I can just take insulin for it. So then I was like, Well, I can still bake and stuff. And so that's I was like, yeah, you know, it's got really excited about it. Stacey Simms 13:39 That's great. So what a whirlwind diagnosis and hopefully we'll have time I want to talk a little bit more about Disney World later, but let's talk about the bacon. You send in the video. You wait six months later, what do you hear what happens? Elise Sammis 13:53 So like, I've been waiting and then another season came out, and that was like, they just didn't see it. The following, never gonna happen. And then like, six months later after that, I was on the bus and my mom called me She's like, you're not gonna believe who just called me. And I was like Harry Potter. Stacey Simms 14:14 well, she was almost 11. Elise Sammis 14:18 And then she's like, no, it's the kids baking championship people and they want to interview and I was like, Oh my gosh, yeah. So I ran home. We did a lot of Skype interviews, and I had a lot of assignments and I had to make a ton of desserts. And there's a lot of other videos I had to make for it. And there's a lot of interviews as the mom you know, please seeking I mean, this is an exciting time but at the same time it's a lot of hopes for a young woman to have Yeah, yeah. Nervous that after all of this work, she wasn't gonna get on the show. Oh, very, very guarded, I guess will be the word. Natalie Sammis 14:53 I mean, I'll backtracking when she said mom can I turn in the video and I did have to click like I agree and I help fill in. Some of the, like contact information so it was correct, because at that point, you were 10 years old when she turned in the video. And I told I still remember and people laugh at me still, at least still less than me. My caveat was sure I'll turn in this video but you need to understand that you will never hear back from them, they probably will never see it and you're never going to be on that show. And if you're okay with all those three sentences, I'm feeling okay with letting you turn this in. Because I'm more of a realist. I am Elise is a is a goal setter and a go getter and a dreamer. And she proved me wrong every time so I don't know why I keep doubting it. But I just I think I do that out of protection as a mom and so yeah, as time went on, you couldn't even the process is when they Skype, the parent in the room is not allowed to be in the room. You can't be there. They want the kids to stand on their own. They don't want some mom in the corner given them most of coaching and so I would put my ears to like the door but I have a he was four at the time. And he would be like read to me we've got this new dog that was like two months old and an idiot, so I'm literally like hearing every fifth word. And even then I'm like, oh, like so excited out of my mind that I couldn't even concentrate. So I mean, it was crazy. Just week after week, it went on for from March until June, just on and off on enough like, yes, you made it to the next step. Then we would hear crickets, crickets crickets, and you don't want to be the annoying mom. And then they not pick you because you're this weirdo psycho. So you had to play it cool. You have to kind of just wait for them. And then the next kind of like little piece of cheese would come and he would chase after that. Stacey Simms 16:34 so then this is going on for a while. When did you really start to get close? What happens? I don't know how much you can share. So don't tell us what you can't. But how do you know that? This is going to be it? Elise Sammis 16:44 Yeah. Well, we were doing all these interviews and videos and I was it just kept going. And I was like, when are they going to cut to the chase and like, actually do it. And so then we got a call in like early June. They're like, we want to fly out 15 kids, we're gonna send three home and all the other ones are going to be able to be on the show. And I was like, we're finally going to LA. Natalie Sammis 17:09 Yeah. So we knew flying out there all the way to all this work. I mean, this is now we've been up till 2am, baking things having to print that present the next day unless it's work. I mean, huge amount of work. And it's a risk. It's Stacey Simms 17:24 already going home. And then the competition, you know, Natalie Sammis 17:27 oh, yeah. So our goal was to get on the show, and knock it out the first episode. And we didn't do those things so that we can just hang our head forever. Stacey Simms 17:36 What happens when you're there? I mean, you know, kids are generally pretty friendly, I would think. I mean, you want to be friends, you're hanging out. There's got to be a lot of downtime. If you're not familiar with TV production, there's so much downtime, is it hard doing that knowing that they're not going to stay? Elise Sammis 17:52 It was super hard because like, the first day like all of them were super nice, and they're all like super friendly, and like we went to the mall, and we hung out at the pool together. And like, I didn't want any of them to go. But they had to, there was no thing in me that was like, I want so and so to get out. Yeah. Stacey Simms 18:13 So yeah, be nice if everybody could win. But that's not how the show works. Yeah. All right, what can you tell us because a couple of episodes have aired already, but when this podcast airs will probably be further down the road. So I'm curious if you can share anything about what goes on behind the scenes because I've seen the show and some of it looks very ordered. Some of it looks very chaotic. is some of that chaos planned? Or is it just you guys are really doing what you're doing? What do people really knock stuff over? Elise Sammis 18:38 Sometimes they would tell me to ask how are you doing so and so? And they really like good. And then sometimes they would say like, tell all the other bakers you have 15 minutes left. And the other stuff we would just say random things. Yeah, your mind. Natalie Sammis 18:56 Well, it was funny to that. I think there's a couple times that the cameras People I thought it was interesting. They have 13 different cameras going to get all the angles. They have one big overhead camera. And she said, anytime anyone made a mistake, you knew it, because you'd feel the crane. Whoa, hovering over you. So you didn't want the big camera to go on you. You knew that either something's on fire or going downhill fast. So no one wanted the big camera to be swooping in their direction. Stacey Simms 19:27 we haven't really talked about diabetes and the show. That was in your video, some of your audition. Yes. You mentioned it. Was there any hesitancy on your part to put that in? Was that important to you Elise Sammis 19:37 know, that was very important to me, because I wanted like everyone to know that if you have diabetes, you can still do the things that you want to do. And it was like super cool, because there was another girl named Naima. She's my super good friend and she had also had type one, and she's super sweet. And we were both like, yeah, we both have type one. Stacey Simms 19:55 I was gonna ask you about Naima because I'm obviously we're not interviewing her for the show, but I've seen her story. Well, and it was incredible to me. So far the posts have all been, oh, there's two kids with type one on the Food Network. And everybody's been saying no, no, no, you're confused this name and no, you're no, you're confused. Oh, it's really Natalie Sammis 20:12 well, well, even we were confused. But we walk in the first day and its orientation and all the sudden I'm hearing Dexcom alarms and I'm going Elise, Like what? Like, like it is because it sounds too far from us. And she should have it in your bag. And I said, Who's next column? What Where's your Dexcom? And then this other little girl pipes up and says, Oh, that's mine. And that moment, it was that instant bond of like, you have to wait, we have to. It was our first I think your first real friend like you have acquaintances that have type one, but this is the first time she connected with some one else on this kind of level who has type one and I think that's special. Stacey Simms 20:48 So you guys have kept in touch. Elise Sammis 20:50 We have a big old group chat. We all talk every day. Stacey Simms 20:54 That's cool. I wish I can ask you more but I know Yeah. Elise Sammis 21:00 Did any of the other kids talk to you about diabetes? I mean, kids don't always do that. I'm just curious. They were pretty curious. And they're like, what's on your arm? And I was like, Oh, that's my insulin pump and everything. They were super nice and they're like, they didn't really care about it. They were just super sweet. Stacey Simms 21:29 Did any of the parents because I mean my son doesn't bake and I remember when I've been parental settings for sports or there's always somebody who's like, well can you really eat that? You know, anything like that? Natalie Sammis 21:30 No one really I think because we had gotten that far. And they knew we were that serious about baking. They can't bear Yeah, there's two of us they dare not I think what we are all became like very good friends. I think it's always eye opening when you get to know other people that the little bit of understanding of what type one really means day in and day out and on vacation and we were in a very stressful situation and we were up I mean, her blood sugar would just go crazy every time she baked it every time she was on set I wouldn't even let her eat a single carb because I already knew her blood sugar would be through the roof when she's getting stressed her her levels go high and so her Dex have just been going off. I can't believe we can't hear it at the show you you are only there but it almost felt a little good to be able to just kind of explain and see what is really like it Yeah, we were up at 2am and 3am and 4am treating highs and then treating lows and this is our everyday and oh at least go change your pod or and they kind of like look at you with like huge eyes like you do this every day and you're kind of like Yeah, we do. It's all right that like what I am so proud of at least and I don't know if everyone told you this really but she did not once ever use diabetes or her blood sugar level as an excuse whenever she didn't perform how she wanted to perform or when she was stressed or other kids won certain competitions. She Never ever, ever even had that in a thought like it does not hold her back physically or mentally ever. I want to have my little mom sign like “do you know her blood sugar is 328, do you know hard it is to be thinking clearly?!” like, I just wanted to say that like you don't understand how cool she is right now. Stacey Simms 23:19 So but let me ask you because obviously diabetes did not stop you from doing this. But did anything happened during the competition where you did have to leave to change a pod? Or it Did you know, mess you up? Did anything ever happened along the way because it does happen sometimes. Elise Sammis 23:32 Thankfully, like nothing like sometimes the medical my medical person, she was super nice. She would like come over and give me some insulin but I would just keep on baking and she would like BB Stacey Simms 23:46 Yeah, so was this somebody that the show provided Natalie Sammis 23:48 that they had two medicd, so they had one assigned to Naima one assigned to Elise and I'm sure they would cover the other kids who like cut themselves to cut themselves on fire, but they were basically there to hover over The two diabetics. Stacey Simms 24:01 Did you ever catch yourself on fire? Unknown Speaker 24:02 No but someone did we had to slap it down with a giant pan. Natalie Sammis 24:07 Yeah, yeah, there's some fire soon. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Awesome. Stacey Simms 24:13 So much to ask you about the show. But I'm curious as you watch the show, the judges are a big part of it. You know, were you nervous meeting them? Was it fun? Anything stand out. I don't know what you could tell us. Elise Sammis 24:25 It was super exciting meeting them and like Valerie was super nice. And she was just like a mom like the whole time she like was very nice. That was nice. Stacey Simms 24:37 Sweet the judges of Valerie Burtonelli, who we all know from one day to time, all those great shows and then Duff is the.. he did Charm City cakes, right? Yeah. Duff Goldman. We were huge fans. My daughter is in college now. But we watched Charm City cakes a ton. He was our guy. Yes. And you said he was interesting? Elise Sammis 25:00 He really funny and like sarcastic and he was really, like nice about the judging and everything and he was really, like supportive. Stacey Simms 25:08 Maybe you can answer this. They also seem like they're taking it seriously. I mean, they're Valerie's nicer. Some it seems right to the kids, but they're straightforward. They're not telling you Good job when it wasn't right? Natalie Sammis 25:20 Yeah, well, what's actually funny on I never got to meet them. They only let the kids talk to them meet them. I saw them through like closed circuit TV with no audio feeds, because their parents had to have some sort of eye on their child, but I didn't even get to meet them. But when those kids would come back from tastings and judging things and just baking during the day, they would just say, oh, def came over and talk to me and he was funny, and oh, Valerie, like gave me a hug and I trusted the kids in that setting there. They're not the other I don't want to call it other people's judges names and other shows, but they're not harsh. They're not on kind but they are they are very, they're. Stacey Simms 26:03 Yeah. They seem to balance the fact that there weren't a kids show. Yeah. But if you're going to be good feedback, Natalie Sammis 26:07 yeah. If you're going to get that far, though, and how hard we work to get there, those kids can take it. They're not delicate flowers at this point. Stacey Simms 26:15 So of course, you can tell us how everything went in the end of the show, and you won't get in any trouble. even letting a word well done. I obviously can't ask you about the outcome. And I would never. Was it fun are you glad you did it? Elise Sammis 26:29 It was super fun. I'm so glad that I did it because it's such like a good experience. Like you got to meet so many friends. It was really like a lesson to me about patients. Because all those interviews and all the time that was like put into it. It was a lot and yet there's a lot of waiting. So that was a really good lesson for me. Do you still enjoy baking? Is that something you think about? Please do? Yes, I feel like I would always do baking is really fun. In like, it likes me be creative. Unknown Speaker 27:02 This is a good experience for your families. Natalie Sammis 27:04 It was a really good experience me and at least had a great time. We were kind of out there as buddies. And then my, my husband and the other three younger kids flew out for a couple days to visit us. And they decorated our hotel room with balloons galore and messages on the mirror of good luck. And the little kids and me, myself included this kind of trail along on her coattails and got to have this amazing experience. So it was wonderful. Stacey Simms 27:30 I have to ask you, she was three younger children. Do they know the outcome? Because I wouldn't trust my kids. No offense, I don't know your family. Unknown Speaker 27:41 No, they don't. Natalie Sammis 27:42 They even will sometimes, like try to guess and like act like it's real. They're like Oh, so and so did this and they probably did this or that and will be like, oh, whatever you want to think like we don't even validate it because the the what's the number at least that we will be sued if we let information that we Elise Sammis 27:58 will be sued 750,000 Natalie Sammis 28:00 Yeah 13 page contract saying that we will not disclose information so we didn't tell the five year olds Yeah. Stacey Simms 28:07 Anything something else exciting that you all are a part of and I guess this is pretty brand new is your clinical trial for horizon from insolent which is the hybrid closed loop system using Omnipod? So Natalie, can you share a little bit about what is being tested? Is it the full system with the phone app? Natalie Sammis 28:26 Yes, it's the full system. So it involves they gave us a brand new Dexcom transmitter that has the capabilities of obviously talking to the the Omnipod and to the new I don't do they call it a PDM Do you remember lease, I don't know. They still called the PDM. But it's basically a locked out Samsung and they provide that as well. Along with pods that look identical except for this little blue tab. That worked just the same. Also, what I really really like about this, the whole point of it is that you are able to put it in that Automatic mode they call it and with the auto mode, it's every five minutes the Omnipod index home will talk to each other and adjust the Bazell every five minutes as needed. What's cool about it too, is let's say you forgot your PDM you're locked out Samsung somewhere. Even if it has no range, if you could throw it off a cliff even for at least three days, your basal insulin would still be being adjusted because the Dexcom and Omnipod can talk to each other independently. Stacey Simms 29:29 Have you used any hybrid closed loop stuff before? Elise Sammis 29:32 No, this is our first time. Stacey Simms 29:34 All right. How many days? It's only been a couple of days. We started last Wednesday today. To 60 All right, though. Yeah. So have you seen a difference? Elise Sammis 29:42 Yes, it is crazy. Like even we went to Disney World last week, and I ate a ton of junk and everything. And I like went to sleep and it would be a little high but that's what your blood sugar does. And I went to sleep and for the night It would be like a straight line I was so amazing it was it's a big difference. Just the normal taking insulin every time you hear ringing Natalie Sammis 30:09 Yeah, it is just made me feel like less of a nag to like, oh at least check your blood sugar. Oh, I heard your alarm three times a baby. Have you looked at that like that is now silencing our neck. So I have high hopes for it and it really is giving us better control. She's in that crazy stage of life being 11 about to be 12 where it makes no sense. She goes to sleep it looks like she ate a box of Krispy Kreme Doughnuts for no reason and it's nothing but hormones and I don't know unexplained highs and lows. So already this week, it is refreshing to see so many more straight lines. I mean, there's still today we were stuck in the three hundreds for hours and that's just what it is. And but I'm really pleased so far and I'm ecstatic to be able to have it for longer than the three month trial period. Stacey Simms 30:57 All right. Before I let you go you said you have at Disney World, you ran in half marathon full marathon Natalie Sammis 31:04 on Team JDRF. The half marathon half marathon. Stacey Simms 31:07 Yep. So you went back to Disney World. You ran the team JDRF half marathon. Let me ask you first though at least what's it like for you to go back at Disney World? Do you think about diabetes you just have fun when you're there. Elise Sammis 31:18 I have like weird flashbacks kind of. Because I like like remember walking in that same spot being like, all frazzled, like what am I going to do? But then like going back and feeling like Well, I'm kind of normal now. Like, I got it under control. So like happy for me. Unknown Speaker 31:35 That's fantastic. So like, Natalie Sammis 31:37 I had some a mom, I'm going to get weepy no problem very silly. But to see it come full circle to leave Disney World that first time. And you know wonder what your future is going to be like wonder what your daughter's life is going to look like. It's kind of being scared out of your mind. And then to come back to the literally the same place in Disney. I don't know. It has some feel to it. Like, even if you had gone 20 years ago, there's something magic. There's that little spark of Disney that kind of remains the same. So it puts you right back where you were in this time to feel so much confidence. And I still remember on the half marathon, you turn a corner and run into the Magic Kingdom in the it was still dark because it's a ridiculously early marathon. But the castle was all lit up. And I had this like moment of like, Oh my goodness, we've made it so far. I am so happy where where we're at now. We're beating diabetes. I'm not being beaten by diabetes. And at that very moment, as I'm like, getting all bizarre and emotional. I look up and there's Team JDRF fans, right? They're saying that moment of like, oh, then I'm like, wait, I can't praise because I'm practice. So I stopped crying and I kept running and that was it. But yeah, it is a quite a journey, I guess, to come full circle and to go back in that way with so much support and so much like people behind you and helping you raise money for a cause, you know, to help your kid just live a happy, normal life. So it was great. Stacey Simms 33:18 Thank you both so much. I would say Best of luck, but it's all. So excited to watch. To see how this goes. I hope you'll come back and talk to us again. Thank you so much. Unknown Speaker 33:29 Thank you. Unknown Speaker 33:35 You're listening to diabetes connections with Stacey Simms. Stacey Simms 33:41 Alright, so fingers crossed for Elise and for Naima. I am taping this just after the second episode has aired. So who the heck knows what has happened since and what will happen going forward, but we will certainly be following cheering these girls on. Up next. Tell me something good but diabetes connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And you know, when Benny was very little, and his fingers would get wet, right? I'd give him a bath or we'd go in the pool. I would always notice his fingertips. And you know exactly what I mean, right? They were poked so much that they were just full of little little pinprick holes. You could see when they got wet. He is 15. Now, I don't really see his hands much anymore. But the other day, he's such a ding-a-ling. He was doing a project for school. He was using a hot glue gun and he you know, he burned himself a little bit. He's fine. He's fine. But when he came into show me I noticed again and every time I do see his hands, it just knocks me out. his fingertips look normal. We've been using Dexcom for six years now. And with every iteration, we've done fewer and fewer finger sticks, the latest generation, the Dexcom g six eliminates finger sticks for calibration and diabetes treatment decisions. Just thinking about doing 10 finger sticks a day in the past. Makes me so glad that Dexcom has helped us come so far. It's an incredible tool. If you're glucose alerts and readings from the G six do not match symptoms or expectations. Use a blood glucose meter to make diabetes treatment decisions. learn more, go to diabetes, connections calm and click on the Dexcom logo. It's time for Tell me something good. I've got two great stories one was sent to me via Facebook Messenger. The other one I saw in a Facebook group and if you've got a story for me, the easiest way is in my Facebook group at diabetes connections the group or email me let me know what's going on. What is good for you. Melissa wrote in “I have a Tell me something good. I've been listening to your podcast since maybe the summer and my four year old daughter was diagnosed March 28 2019. You are very optimistic. I haven't found a positive thing with my daughter's diabetes. Until today. It's been a horrible nine months with everything. We had our first dentist appointment Since diagnosis I've dropped a lot of ball since April, when the dental hygienist saw the pump. She knew what it was. I didn't have to explain. The conversation got direct to where we treat for Lowes, Skittles and starbursts and gummies. All bed for her teeth. When the dentist came to check, we had a discussion about the candies. He asked for her Endo's name, and he knew her. He's the pediatric chief of dentistry at the local Children's Hospital where her endo is affiliated, he texted an email to find better candies to use instead of the sticky kind. He went on to say collaborates with a lot of specialized doctors in the Children's Hospital to take better care of the kids. And he said get back to me after a discussion with the endo. I found the experience relieving that I wouldn't have to fight this battle. The dentist got it and my daughter was in good hands being cared for. I didn't think I'd ever find anything positive about our new normal. Today I did. So that's my Tell me something good.” Melissa, I'm getting emotional reading what you're saying here. Thank you. She writes for your podcast your optimism, and having somebody to tell the story to understand. Her daughter's name is Katarina, beautiful name. And she told me that it's been difficult to find care for her. You know when they're that little it can be so hard preschools, that kind of thing. But she went on to write that they have been blessed. She's been taken care of by her school nurse in an all day preschool. Her endocrinologist who they love and her mother, Melissa's mom, the grandma, who was able to watch her while the parents are at work, and now the dentist, she writes, “I didn't realize until this how lucky we have been. These are battles. I do not have to fight. Your optimism about any life with T1D is something I was envious of. I wanted some of the burden of this disease lifted off of my shoulders, and I was able to see that I have that after this visit. So I'm a little bit emotional here because of all the nice things she said and just having a place to share that with right. It's important to have people who get it and know important it is that the dentist didn't scold her and say you shouldn't be doing that. But said, Let's find a way to do this that works with Type 1 diabetes. And I think that's fantastic. But if it was a little strange for me to hear, even though I know it, I am very optimistic. I am very positive. I put these rose colored glasses on a lot and diabetes is hard. Type 1 is difficult. Being a parent of a kid with type one it's difficult to it's not all sunshine and rainbows over here. Trust me, I hope I'm open and honest about it. But at the end of the day, we've been really lucky. And I am optimistic and if you're feeling down or things are hard, no judgment, man. It is hard all around. I think I do an okay job of being honest and sharing the ups and downs. But I do know that my general outlook with type one is is an uplifting one. I hesitate to say it because I feel like it's an odd thing to say I feel like it puts me like I'm trying to be uplifting, but the truth is that's how it was presented. To us when Benny was diagnosed, and that makes all of the difference. When you're diagnosed on the very first day you meet a nurse who says, he's going to be fine. I have type one. And I have one child at home and I'm pregnant with my second and don't listen to the scary stories and don't listen to the hard stuff. It's fine. And then the next day, you pick up the phone and call three local people that you know who have kids with type one, because you've met them in your health reporting over the years, and they all say that he's gonna be great. My kids Is this my kid does that it's fine. It really changes than if you don't have those things. And I know how lucky I am to have them. So Melissa, thank you for reaching out. Thanks for a little bit of the gut check, as I like to say the rose colored glasses, but send us any good news and send us anything you want to vent. I hope you join the Facebook group. I'd love to hear more about Catarina. Our other Tell me something good this week comes from the Walt Disney World marathon weekend. That's where Natalie Sammis was when they said they were in Walt Disney World again. Very recently. She was running the half marathon. You talked about with all the jdrf people, they're getting emotional. Well, there's so much going on for that weekend. And I wanted to spotlight Julia Buckley, who's a friend of mine and I've mentioned her on the show before. She is a flight attendant and she is amazing. And she won the Spirit Award for jdrf. She ran on Team jdrf. I don't know how she does it. She flies all over the world comes home runs at Walt Disney World. She always has a smile on her face. So Julia, thank you so much for all that you do. I love some of the pictures maybe we'll throw some of those in the Facebook group as well but to everybody who ran at Walt Disney World, hats off man and now it's a fun race but it's still a lot of work. If you've got to tell me something good story, send it my way. I am so excited. We're getting more and more of these all the time or put them out on social media every week. So I'd love to hear from you tell me something good. Before I let you go, this is not a Tell me something good. This is a Tell me something embarrassing. So I mentioned the very beginning of the show that there were some technical difficulties when I recorded the interview with Elise and Natalie. And real quick, the way I taped the show, usually is that I do the interviews right from my home computer. I have a little setup little home studio. But the interviews are generally conducted via Skype, and then into my computer and then into a backup hard drive. Later on, I record this part of it like a round the interview, right and that goes right into the computer. But when I'm on the road, I don't want to slip my computer. It's only got one input for the microphone, and I had basically needed three inputs. my microphone, Natalie's mic, and Elise's mic. So I use I mentioned that hard drive. I use a recorder for all of you audio files out there, I use an H five zoom. It is a wonderful little recording device and i i only scratched the surface. I know I'm not using it to its full potential. I can plug two microphones in there. And I know I can do more with it. I could use a sound mixer or whatever. But generally when I have more than two microphones that I'm using a plug two and two Each five zoom. And then I have another recorder where I put on a lavalier mic and a little Clippy mics that you see on the evening news or maybe you've done an interview or recorded something for work and they put a little clip mic on your collar. That's a level layer mic, and I use that for myself. And here's the embarrassing part. The recorder I use when I do that is an old iPhone. And I'm not even sure how old it is. It might be a four, it might be three. It doesn't work anymore for anything else. I mean, I don't certainly have service on it. But it is a perfect dumb recorder. And it's like a tape recorder back of the day. And I had purchased over the years, these level ear mics that plugged into your phone. They're fantastic. But when you switch to the newer iPhones and you got rid of the headphone jack well guess where the lav mic plugged in. So I'm out of luck. I can't use my newer phone as a recorder if I want to use the lav mics. So we get to South Carolina. I'm setting everything up. I'm there early and speaking doing a book event before First I'm going to interview with Lisa, Natalie. So I set everything up. Everything sounds good. The stick microphones, the regular microphones, the one if you ever see pictures of me the ones that have the logos on them. Those are plugged in. They're working fine. They're a little low. I'm not really sure. I think maybe Elise was just very soft spoken. So I'm trying to adjust audio levels. I plug my stuff in, and the old phone, the editing software will not open. I use a program called twisted wave. And it's a great program. It's it's up to date, but the phone is so old. I think it was trying to update the the editing software. So I said, forget this. I'll just use my voice memo. So every phone has a voice memo app. It's fabulous for podcasting. It really works well. You can just record your voice for however long and then you email it to yourself. I have guests do this. Sometimes if it's a really short interview. I don't do it much. But you know, once or twice. I've had people do a short segment and a voice memo is great for them. So it looks like it's working. Everything's fine. We do the whole interview. voice memo is there I can hear it. It's recorded Elise Natalie are fine. I can't Email the file to myself. I can't get it off the phone. It's stuck on this old iPhone three, four. It's sitting there. It's It's wonderful. Amazingly, the microphones I was using picked up my voice enough so you heard the interview. It wasn't terrible. It probably wasn't great, I'm sure john kennis my editor worked a ton of magic on it every time he gets a file from me probably shakes his head and said, yes, this person obviously worked with a technical producer her entire radio career. So I'm now in the market for a new level ear mic, because if you know anything about audio, and you heard me say the h5 zoom, you know that you can also plug a lav mic or any kind of really smaller mic into another outlet very easily. And this whole thing could have been avoided if I had just done that. So that was my adventure. I figured we'd just soldier on right you just want the stories. You're less concerned with pristine studio sound, right? Haha. Well, look, I'm going on the road a lot this year. So I figured I better learn how to do that. And figure out how to better get it done. So stay tuned for the continuing saga of how the heck Stacy makes her lovely mix work. Alright, the next stop is not too far from me. I'm going to Raleigh the first weekend in February Raleigh, North Carolina for a jdrf type one nation summit. Then I am going to Maine the following weekend to South Portland, Maine, to talk to the main pea pods, very excited to talk to this group. And we have a very busy schedule after that. Thank you, as always, especially this week to my editor, john Drew kennis from audio editing solutions. Thank you for listening. Remember this Thursday, we do have another minisode coming out this week. I'm talking all about untethered, what that means, why we have loved it. I got a bunch of questions after I mentioned this in a couple episodes back. I talked about receiver a little bit which is a newer, long acting. So I'm going to go through untethered, what it means why it's not just for teenagers, and why we've had such good success. With it, and that is our next little mini episode. I'm Stacey Simms and I will see you back here on Thursday. Benny 46:11 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Sims media. All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged Transcribed by https://otter.ai

  In episode 108, I'm chatting with Natalie Silverstein about her new book, Simple Acts: The Busy Family's Guide to Giving Back. We talk about the importance of instilling the value of service and acts of kindness. She shares how she created a resource of volunteer opportunities for parents and children in her community and what led to her writing this book for families. It is full of ways to make time in your family's busy life for service and suggestions for making service part of your family's culture. Big Ideas Doing service, acts of kindness, helping others is a wonderful way to grow empathy, compassion, and open-mindedness in young children. Studies show that people who volunteer with their families as children are more likely to do so as an adult. Studies also show that volunteering makes you happier and healthier. There are many ways to give back which don't require scheduling, spending a lot of money, or volunteering formally. It can be incorporated into the things families are already doing: playdates, holidays, vacations, etc. Involve your kids when deciding who to help, how to serve, and which charities to support. You can follow their lead and they will be more invested. When we make service a priority, we find the time to make it happen. There are people in need all year long, not just during the holidays. Social media can be a helpful tool for people to promote positive messages and acts of kindness. It can also be a way to get family and friends involved in service. Quotes Natalie: "All of these life skills that kids get a camp are values that parents want to demonstrate and model at home." Natalie: "I do believe that this work begins at home with very young children. Anything we can do to incorporate these acts of kindness into camp life, into extracurricular activities, and most importantly, into our weekends in our free time, is really so important." Natalie: "It creates a foundation, a moral base for kids, from which they grow." Natalie: "Everybody has a laundry list of extracurricular activities and tutoring and sports and ballet and instruments and all of these things. We don't necessarily prioritize taking time out to say 'no' to some of those things and 'yes' to service and acts of kindness and volunteering together." Audrey: "It's a partnership. It starts at home and then you try to find places like schools, religious organizations, and camps, that also support and reinforce those values that you're trying to teach your kids. Audrey: "We can't do it alone. If we're all trying together to promote these things, it works so much better and our kids turn out a lot better, too." Audrey: "As individuals, we all have different things that bring us flow. I think just like regular work, our volunteering should also be something that's in our wheelhouse, things we enjoy doing." Natalie: "We are all moving through our days, interacting with other human beings. Teach your child to make eye contact with the person behind the counter, hold the door, thank the postman. There are things you can be doing at every moment, almost every day." Natalie: "This is not rocket science. I think the theme of my book is you don't have to change the world to change the world. You don't have to fly to Africa and build a school to make an impact on someone else's life." Natalie: "Give (your children) the opportunity and don't make it negotiable. Say, 'This is what we do. This is how our family operates. Find the thing that really speaks to you and then let's find a way for you to give back in that realm.' It just builds on itself for kids." Natalie: "Instead of saying you don't have time for something, change it and say it's not a priority and then see how that feels." Natalie: "We want to model our values. We want to live our values, perform service and acts of kindness, and just treat people the right way out in the world." Natalie: "These are all things that people can be doing if they're mindful of it. It needs to be intentional. Just like everything in parenting. We need to be thinking about what it is that we can show our kids every day as we walk through our lives that this is how we care about others because we hope that they care about us in the same way." Audrey: "If you find something that you really enjoy doing, then you'll keep doing it and it will bring you a lot of joy, too." Natalie: "You're helping others in the community, doing something substantive. But you're also creating really nice warm family memories and I think those are the things that people remember as adults." Natalie: "There are so many little things that kids can be doing You just have to keep your mind open to it and your heart open to it." Natalie: "You don't have to go out and do this huge, enormous, time-consuming, expensive thing. It's just the little things and they're like drops in a bucket. They add up and they fill the cup of your child's emerging character. It makes a difference in who they are." Natalie: "It's about mindfulness and keeping an open heart and an open mind and really just reminding your children to think outside of themselves." Natalie: "If we can get young people on social media channels to turn the narrative around such that we are putting up instead of putting down--promote the good and spread the good--that can be very powerful." Natalie: "If I'm hosting a play date and these kids are already drawing or painting or making cookies, that can have a service or kindness element built into it. Then even better, go for a walk in the community and deliver those cookies to the local firehouse. This is all part of making it social, making it fun, doing it with other people." Audrey: "It's just so important. We need to counter the negative. Cyberbullying is at an all-time high. If we can just get our kids to flip this and be more focused on what good they can do, then that would make this a kinder world." Natalie: "All of these life skills we learn are tiny drops in the bucket of a child's developing character. If you're not modeling this behavior, if you are screaming at the person behind the counter or the other driver in the car, the way you show your child how you hold the door, how you greet the postal worker by name, it's really powerful. By showing kids 'how we do it in our house', it sticks. It just sticks." About Natalie Natalie Silverstein is an author, volunteer and passionate advocate for family service. After a 15-year career in hospital administration, managed care and healthcare consulting, she now works as a freelance writer and editor with a particular focus on the non-profit sector and community service. Her first book, Simple Acts: The Busy Family’s Guide to Giving Back, was published by Gryphon House on April 1, 2019. In September 2013, Natalie launched the first local affiliate of Doing Good Together (www.doinggoodtogether.org), a Minneapolis-based nonprofit with the mission of helping parents raise kids who care and contribute. As the New York area coordinator, she curates a free monthly e-mail listing of family-friendly service opportunities that are distributed to thousands of subscribers. Natalie is a frequent writer, speaker, and consultant on the topic of family and youth service, presenting to parents, educators, and children across New York City. She is also a contributor to parenting blogs, GrownandFlown.com, and Mommypoppins.com. Along with her husband, she is the co-founder of The Silverstein Foundation for Parkinson’s with GBA(www.silversteinfoundation.org),a nonprofit focused on finding a cure for Parkinson’s Disease in GBA mutation carriers, and serves as Executive Director and a member of the Board of Directors. Natalie earned an undergraduate degree in health policy and administration from Providence College and a master’s degree in public health from Yale University. Links Doing Good Together #CampKindnessDay Simple Acts Facebook Page Related Posts & Podcasts Ep. 46: #CampKindnessDay with Tom Rosenberg Why My Family is Celebrating World Kindness Day Focusing on Kindness  

Please note that this production includes discussion and depiction of sexual violence. If you are affected by the issues in tonight’s performance, VictimLinkBC is a toll-free, confidential, multilingual telephone service available across British Columbia 24 hours a day, 7 days a week at 1-800-563-0808 Ryan: We were lucky to see a piece of HYSTERIA in last years Fringe For All. Seeing the team of Hysteria work so closely together to incorporate contemporary concerns and issues with a nostalgic and relatable piece of media was instantly gratifying and enticing. Their choice of vignette for Fringe For All 2018 was the perfect preview for Fringes-goers. This expert craftsmanship was echoed throughout the 2019 production of Hysteria by the Direct Theatre Collective. The incredible display of human emotion was extremely appreciated as an audience member. Natalie: It was a privilege to get to spend 80 minutes exploring the discourse of consent and survivor narratives. The strong ensemble of cast members in this production was complemented by impressive and meticulous direction brought by former ensemble members Lauren Martin (she/her) and Ariel Martz-Oberlander (she/her). It was clear that the co-direction welcomed and facilitated a seamless transition into the 2019 production, which welcomed three new voices to Hysteria’s raw narrative and clever call-outs. The wit and intelligence of the creative team was consistent and clear through the main plot, while featuring personal stories contributed by the cast. As you’re brought into an eerie multi-media reflection of what could come from our foray into technology and conversations about consent, there are very few moments that ostracise the audience from the action on stage. Again, hats off to all involved in the delicate assembly of hard-hitting content, comedy, music, and media with the intimate Havana stage. Hysteria explores our current socio-political climate in a futuristic (but not far-off) technological landscape, where consent is exchanged and monitored through an app. The assimilation of familiar platforms, such as online dating and virtual assistants, was extremely well thought out and utilized throughout the performances. Where voiceovers can sometimes seem out of place and unnecessary, the interactions in Hysteria were welcome and flattering. R: The emotional arc that Jill Raymond (she/her) went through was gut wrenching and vulnerable, and her strong storytelling at the forefront was a success. Furthermore, Florence Reiher’s (she/her) comedic rhetoric was duly timed and thought provoking. Her musical talents (she contributed some music and lyrics herself) gave the audience time to reflect and process the humour and open the gates to further conversation. Hysteria gives you the incredible opportunity to sit down and ask yourself where you stand as an ally. As a queer man myself, I’ve had many conversations with my female identifying friends and felt anger at not being able to fix the present norm. To quote the show, “anger is not a productive emotion”. They’re right, it’s not. Upon reflection, as a cis man, it's my job to stand up and ask my fellow men to buy a ticket and continue the conversation. N: I truly appreciated each and every moment of this piece. It was a modern Vagina Monologues x Black Mirror. The time, energy, and vulnerability poured into Hysteria by every artist is evident in every story, vignette, and musical interlude. I found myself rolling my eyes in agreeance, shooting my eyebrows up in empathy, and laughing at the relatability playing out before me. As a cis gendered woman, the exploration of consent within relationships was particularly relatable. On more than one occasion, I was nodding in agreeance and identifying times in my life where either identical if not similar situations had unfolded. I applaud the efforts and vulnerability of the cast, crew, and creators to assemble these narratives, and ignite the discourse surrounding them. This conversation needs to continue, and I am grateful to this production for doing so in such a perfectly crafted way. Anyone who missed the 2018 version needs to see the 2019, and those who haven’t seen the show at all, get there, be there, and join the conversation. R: Every person, of every gender identifying category needs to head down to the Havana theatre and see Hysteria. This thought provoking piece of art had something for everyone. It was powerful, insightful and raw. The story telling done by the five powerful humans in the small intimate black box theatre was ultimately the selling feature of the piece. You can catch hysteria at the Havana Theatre which runs for one more week at 8pm. Follow Direct Theatre Collective on social media to purchase your ticket, or follow the links below: Hysteria Facebook event: https://www.facebook.com/events/2188526761440001/ Direct link to tickets: https://www.showpass.com/s/events/all/hysteria/?dates=Any+Date&fbclid=IwAR1j4QGfAz92dYZmCjlZTtWEmBIMVeDXbGUFmiuNUZKywPiylh7jLB2-PTI

Haha, what's up, guys? This is Steve Larsen.   This is Sales Funnel Radio, and before we cue the intro here, I want you to know, this episode for me was really special.   I interview an incredible entrepreneur. Her name is Natalie Hodson. She's fantastic. I love learning and studying from her.   She's gonna talk about some things that went on kinda crazy in her life, and how to leverage the crazy things inside of your life for your audience - particularly around the subject of vulnerability.   So this is how to be vulnerable without looking like you're weak, right? And for a lot of guys, that's super important.   For a lot of selling in general, that's super important - the purpose is not to look like you're weak.   So anyways, let's cue the intro here. I hope you guys enjoy it, and if you have liked this, please reach out to her and say thank you. She puts some really amazing things out.   Thanks, guys, so much, and see you on the episode.   I've spent the last four years learning from the most brilliant marketers today, and now I've left my nine to five to take the plunge and build my million-dollar business.   The real question is, how will I do it without VC funding or debt, completely from scratch? This podcast is here to give you the answer.   Join me and follow along as I learn, apply, and share marketing strategies to grow my online business using only today's best internet sales funnels.   My name is Steve Larsen, and welcome to Sales Funnel Radio. What's going on, everyone?   Hey, it's Steve Larsen, and I'm really excited to have you here today.   Stephen: I have someone that I've been trying to get on the podcast for a very long time - because I just think the world of her. It's been super amazing to get to know this person. Anyways, I'm excited about it.   The first time that I got to hear this story,  it was heart-wrenching for me to see, not just everything that had happened, but the inspiration that it's causing in other people's lives.   The way it's changing other people's lives is a huge deal.   It was fascinating for me to see that this is real, you know, this is a big deal.   I already knew that, but just to continue to watch it in application... I was like, "Gosh, the thousands and thousands and thousands of lives that it's changed."   It's my incredible honor and privilege to have you on the show. Guys, I wanna welcome Natalie Hodson. How are you doing?   Natalie - Hey, thank you so much, Stephen. That was an amazing intro.   Stephen - I mean it.   Natalie -  I'm so excited to be here too. I've watched your stuff, and I've binge listened to all your podcasts. Your advice has helped me so much, so it's like a win-win. I'm excited - you're excited. It's awesome.   Stephen - Oh, I appreciate it. Thank you very much.  I know a lot of people may not know about you yet, and frankly, it's just a matter of time... I think everyone's gonna know who you are.   Natalie - Aw, thank you.   Stephen - Could you tell us a little bit about your story, and kind of the background, 'cause it's inspiring, and...   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - There's obviously funnels in there, but that's a vehicle for this whole thing. You're changing people's lives, and I'd love you to grace my audience with that... that'd be great.   Natalie - Totally. Well, there's a long version and a short version. I'll try to keep it towards the short version, but I tend to be long-winded.   So at any point, if you're like, "Natalie, take it this direction," you know...   Stephen - We have happy ears.   Natalie - So I'm in the fitness space. But I always say that I accidentally fell into the fitness industry because I was a history major in school. I didn't know:   #1: That there even was a fitness industry   #2: That I ever wanted to be a part of it.   After I had my son, I gained 70 pounds when I was pregnant with him. I was like big, out here. He was a 10-pound baby.   Stephen - 70 pounds?   Natalie - Yeah, I was really big. And after I had him, I remember feeling lost. I remember looking in the mirror and feeling like, "I don't even recognize myself... I just wanted to feel like myself again," and it wasn't even so much about the weight. I just didn't feel like me.   So I started a blog, and honestly, it was like an online journal - just as a way to keep me accountable for my fitness stuff.   I didn't tell a single person that I knew in real life, because I was embarrassed.  I didn't want the people I knew to know what I was struggling.   This was when Pinterest very first got started, about eight years ago.  I just started sharing...   I like to cook, so I started sharing healthy recipes, and I started putting them on Pinterest.   And honestly, if you look at my first pins back then, they were taken with a flip phone, just awful photos, but luckily for me, now people are taking gorgeous pictures for me.   So I started to get a lot of traffic to my website.   Stephen - You were just kinda documenting what you were doing?   Natalie - I was just documenting what I was doing and sharing.   This was right when Facebook groups weren't even a thing, and I started a Facebook group with this training program I was doing. I started sharing my ups and my downs, just because I felt like it was a safe space.   I was really vulnerable and telling, you know, my struggles; like I got called out of the gym daycare again - just like real struggles, you know?   I was struggling with all this stuff. And so, I did that 12-week program, and had awesome results, and got some recognition from bodybuilding.com.   I was getting a lot of traffic to my site. So I was like, man, if I'm getting traffic, I might as well monetize it. So I got certified as a personal trainer and started writing - I wrote a couple of ebooks.  I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't how to write an ebook. I just kind of figured it out as I went.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - And then, I started recognizing, basically, like, long story short, what happened is one day...   I was at an event, and this girl came up to me. And she's like, "I love following your stuff! I could never do what you do, because I have stretched skin after I had my babies, and I could never look like you."   I got really confused in the moment, 'cause I was like, "What are you talking about? I have tons of stretched skin."   And then I started realizing that, I don't share that. I have all these beautiful professional photos where I stand up straight, and I angle myself just right so you can't see it, right?   Stephen - Right, yeah.   Natalie - Posture and perfect looking. I started realizing, like, "Holy crap," in my head, I look down, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I have stretched skin, whatever," but I wasn't like, showing that to anybody else.   And so, that night, I pulled out my camera, and I filmed this video,  just saying to people, "Look, I recognize that I've never shown you... this is what that looks like."   People talk about that a lot, but this was six years ago, and really, nobody was talking about it.   I remember the first time I posted that video, my hand was shaking. I thought I was gonna lose every follower I had. But I was like, "I know that if I'm struggling with this, other people are too."   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - And I posted it, and I shut my computer down. I wouldn't look at it, 'cause I was like, "everybody's gonna hate this."   When I opened it up an hour later, there were just thousands of comments, and that video went kind of viral.   Then I started realizing that the more I talked about things that felt scary or uncomfortable, it was actually more of like a magnet. People started to feel like, "Whoa, she gets me. Whoa, she's talking about things that I think in my head, but nobody's really talking about."   And then what happened is it started to  heal broken parts of me too - because I started to realize that those fears and insecurities weren't even real. It was just the story that I was telling myself.   So the more I talked about my story, the less power it had over me.   And so, total side note here, fast forward to right now... 'cause this was years ago... but I feel like I worked through all that body image stuff kind of on accident.   Stephen - Sure.   Natalie - I was being vulnerable, and it's crazy, 'cause right now, I'm going through a very similar process. I'm trying to do a lot of self-work. Learning to be perfectly imperfect with the body stuff - I feel like I did that, and I'm okay with it.   Stephen - “Perfectly imperfect” - that's cool.   Natalie - Yeah, and now it's like, "Okay, how can I...?" I've always struggled with this idea of perfection, and now with relationships, I'm trying to recognize that it's okay to not be perfect in relationships. That when you work through the hard stuff, when you talk about the hard stuff, it actually...   So anyways, I'll turn back now. I skipped a big chunk in there, but...   Stephen - No, that's fascinating what you just said... We will come back to that.   Natalie - Okay.   Stephen - Keep going, 'cause there's this whole spot... I'm like, "This is so cool."   Natalie -  I might not have the right words for it, because I'm just starting to figure it out. It's what I was talking to my friend Yara about last night.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - So, anyways, I built this big audience, all organically. I had about 400,000 followers, but I wasn't really monetizing it.   I was selling ebooks and making decent, good money, probably  around six figures as a stay at home mom - so it was good. Like, it was awesome, and I was enjoying it. I was writing.   And then I went through a divorce. And then it got really scary, because I was like, "All right, I don't have child support, I don't have alimony.  I have to figure this out."   Stephen - Right.   Natalie - And it just so happened... like, you know, I swear, a lot of times, things fall in place when they're supposed to, or you meet people when you're supposed to.   Stephen - Right.   Natalie - It just so happened that... I don't know actually what happened. I don't know if my name got thrown around in a mastermind or something, but all of a sudden, I got emails or phone calls from eight different people wanting to build a funnel for me in ClickFunnels, and all this stuff.   I was like, "What? what is a funnel? What is this?" And so, I started researching and googling, and I kept seeing this name, Russell Brunson.   It's so embarrassing now 'cause I know what a good, honest, genuine hard-working guy Russell is... but honestly, at first, I was like, "Is this a scam? Why are people promising me the world, and like telling me they can..."   Usually, if somebody tells you something that's too good to be true - it is, right?     ...And they're like, "With that audience, you can make all this money." And I was so skeptical.   But the embarrassing part is, Russell wrestled in college with my cousin, and we live like just right down the street from each other. So we had all these mutual friends.   Stephen - Right.   Natalie - I messaged him on Facebook, and basically just... I mean, I didn't say, "Is your company a scam?"... but that's basically... I mean it was rude!   And now that I know who Russell is, I'm like so embarrassed, and I'm so grateful he didn't just say, "See ya, I'm never talking to you again."   So I started finding out about ClickFunnels, and then I read his DotCom Secrets book, and I was like, "What?"   'Cause  I'd built this big audience, but never in my life had I even spent a dime on Facebook ads.   So, I started reading his book, and I was like, "What? These are real secrets. Why is he sharing this?"   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - Look, this is my original notepad.   Stephen - What?   Natalie - That's crazy. I was organizing my office, and it happened to be sitting here.   So what I did, this was cool. I pulled out this notepad, and as I went through the book, I started saying, "How can I apply that to my business?" Like, five variables of successful campaigns:   Step one, who are your competitors? And I started writing down who are my actual competitors? This is cool. Blast from the past.   Stephen - That's so cool. I just found mine the other day.   Natalie - No way!   Stephen - Yeah, it's just right over here - the exact same thing. I was just showing it to somebody else. But, yeah, I found mine. It's like going way back.  "I remember the first time I realized this!" This is a huge deal.   Natalie -  I was mind-blown, and I was like, "What?" And so, I started implementing it, and I was like, "This works!"   I brought somebody on to help me with building the funnel at the beginning. Now we've since split ways...   So we launched the funnel. So, okay,  this story's getting very long, so we'll wrap it up, but...   Stephen - No, it's awesome. Super valuable.   Natalie - Okay, so, basically, at that point, I was like, "Hey, my back's against the wall. I need to figure out, how am I gonna monetize what I have here?"   So what I did was, I looked at my Google Analytics on my website.  I was like, my audience is telling me what they're interested in through my analytics, right? So, I took my five most popular blog posts, and I said, okay, I'm gonna make an offer around each of these.   Stephen - Wow.   Natalie - So the first one was this weird word called Diastasis Recti. Which is basically ab separation.   When you're pregnant, your abs can separate to make room for the baby, and in about two-thirds of women, they don't always come back together the right way. So it can cause you to look pregnant, even if you're eating right or exercising. It can cause you to have like just core weakness.   The other post was this thing called Pelvic Floor Dysfunction, which in layman's terms means like, if you laugh, cough, sneeze, jump on a trampoline, exercise too hard, a lot of times, women, after they have babies, will pee their pants a little bit.   Stephen - Right.   Natalie - And so it just so happened that one of my good friends from college had just gotten her Ph.D. in this specific area.   So, I reached out to her, and I was like, "Hey, Monique, I am getting a massive amount of traffic to this blog post. Do you think we could do something together?"   And that's when she told me. She's like, "Oh my gosh, Natalie, the peeing your pants stuff doesn't have to happen! Just 'cause it's common, and happens to so many women it doesn't mean that it's normal or healthy. It can be improved."   And I was really skeptical again at first. I was like, "Yeah, right!" I was like, "Yeah, I've had two 10-pound babies." I got kind of defensive.   Stephen - Your kids were 10 pounds?   Natalie - Yeah, both of 'em. Isn't that crazy?   Stephen - Oh my gosh. Our first two were five and a half.   Natalie - Oh, wow.   Stephen - We have little kids.   Natalie - Yeah, and I had 'em at home too, with midwives, yeah.   Stephen - Oh my gosh.   Natalie - It was crazy. So crazy.   Stephen - Amazing.   Natalie - So, long story short, last year, it was November of last year,  I talked to her. It was that first conversation. And it's funny, 'cause we have the Facebook messages still with the date.   And I said, "Hey, do you think we can write a program helping women?"   Because she put me through a program, and it totally worked.  I knew that if I'm struggling with this, other women must be too.     We started talking about it on Thanksgiving. We began writing it at Christmas. We launched on January 31st.   It was like, a month, a month, a month.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - And we launched it through ClickFunnels, and within four months, we'd sold a million dollars of this $37 ebook.   Stephen - Do the math on that, people.   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - How many people? That's crazy.   Natalie - Yeah, it was really crazy. We don't sell the physical version, but this is the physical version, and it's just an ebook. I mean, there's nothing super fancy about it. It's kind of text, parts of it are kind of textbooky.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - I partnered with the doctor to write that. I'm glad I did because she has the credibility, and I have the connection, so it's kind of like a one-two punch.   Stephen - I love that, yeah.   Natalie - I don't think I could have created that program 100% on my own, because when you're talking about the body and anatomy - there are so many things that I wasn't qualified to talk about, but anyways.   So then, it was this whirlwind of like, "Holy crap." Before this, it was just me in front of my computer answering emails.   Then all of a sudden, it's like, "whoa," we have this big company and this big machine, and I need to learn how to hire people and scale and be a CEO of a company instead of just like, a little solopreneur.   Last year was a real whirlwind of a year. I had to learn how to be tough with business. I had to learn the value and the importance of contracts and of not let people take advantage of you.   I had to grow and scale - and create value. I mean, just everything was...   Conceptually, I knew what I needed to do, but applying it was kind of a whirlwind.   I still feel like we're still... we'll always be working on our businesses, but...   So, that was the world's longest answer to "How you got started," but that's how I got involved in the ClickFunnels community.   The one thing I will say is; if anybody is watching this and is skeptical, "I understand," 'cause I felt the exact same way.   But if you just do what Stephen teaches, what Russell teaches it works. It really, really works! It's not scammy.   If you have a good product and a good message to give to the world, follow the system and don't try to change it, and it will work. That's all I did.   I didn't do anything fancy, other than I came up with the idea and the program...  I just did what you guys say to do, and it worked.   Stephen - That's so cool. That's so awesome.   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - That's so awesome. Yeah, sometimes people look at it. I had a buddy who looked at it once, and he's like, "That looks like it's scammy," - you know, the same kind of thing. I'm like, "Ah, no, we actually end up delivering more value than if you don't do it this way."   Natalie - Yes, 100% agreed.   Stephen - Fascinating.   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - You gave a speech at Funnel Hacking Live which was incredible.  I was so excited. I think we were sitting in the front row, or something like that, I was pumped.   I was like, "Yeah, Natalie's next!" You gave a speech about vulnerability. And you talked about some of the ways you build in vulnerability - and this isn't a weakness.   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - Right, but how do you find the strength to be vulnerable?   I guess, first of all, can you tell us what it means to be vulnerable?   You're such an... I don't know if you wanna call it vulnerability secrets, vulnerability expert, or hacks? Whatever, like, but you're really good at doing this in a way that doesn't come across, you know...   It seems like most people are like, "I'm not gonna be vulnerable 'cause it means I'm weak."   Natalie - No, it's not.  I get that, 'cause I felt that way for a long, long time.   So first off, I think a lot of times, especially if you're talking to guys, they will hear the word vulnerable, and they'll be like, "I'm a man. I am not vulnerable," right? And I get that.   So, another way of saying "be vulnerable" is just "be real," right?   Look at Russell. He shares the ups and the downs, and because he shares the downs, you wanna champion and root for him on the ups.   If somebody only shares the good times, then you don't connect as much.   It's almost like we naturally, as humans, have a tendency to...   If you think somebody is only always doing good, it's harder to wanna cheer for them and root for them, you know?   Stephen - "Yeah, the cards are always in that guy's favor... are you kidding?"   Natalie - Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, when it comes to being vulnerable, it's not about crying all the time, and it's not even about being vulnerable all the time.   If you look at my content, 80 to 90% of it is just really good quality content, and then occasionally, I'll add some real honest truth or raw moments into what I share. And what it does is it brings, this isn't my phrase... it from an author named Brene Brown, her books changed my life.   *Natalie looks for books* I don't have them here, but "Daring Greatly" and "Rising Strong" literally, personally and professionally, changed my life.   Brenee is a shame and vulnerability researcher. She teaches that vulnerability is the ultimate human connector because vulnerability and shame cannot survive together.   And so the more vulnerable you are, the less shame can survive, and the less power that story has over you.   And so, you know, we all have moments that we feel embarrassed to talk about, or we think that people will judge us, or we feel ashamed, and what's crazy.   I've found that the more you talk about the hard stuff:   #1: The less shame you feel talking about it, and you start to feel more comfortable with it   #2: People start to open up to you and say, "oh my gosh, me too. I didn't think anybody experienced that."   And so what happens is it creates a different level of trust with your audience.   However, there's a fine line between being vulnerable to get sales and actually being vulnerable, right? That's kind of hard to teach. And so, you know, I didn't start this off saying, "I'm gonna be vulnerable so I can build a big audience and make all this money."   I genuinely have a heart to help people, and selfishly, it helped me along the way, too, because it made me feel less insecure about these things.   People always say, "Okay I get it in theory, it makes sense to be vulnerable, but how do you actually do that without coming across as that crazy person on Facebook that puts all their drama there?"   Stephen - Always crying, the person like, "Oh, crap, unfollow."   Natalie - Yeah, and you're just like, Where's the popcorn. Let's watch their drama unfold." And so I kind of have this four-step system that I didn't mean to create. It's just how I naturally write, but it works really well.   The first thing that I do is #1, remember that you don't always have to share your vulnerable moments in the moment.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - So, if you haven't worked through something and you're still feeling very fragile about it - it's okay to wait to share. Because, I've made that mistake before.   If you get criticism back and you haven't really worked through it yet, that criticism can be shattering to your confidence.   And so, one of the tricks that I have...   For a long time, I struggled, 'cause when you're going through the vulnerable stage when you're really sad or excited or happy or embarrassed or feeling ashamed when you're in the moment, the feelings feel very real...   But sometimes it's hard to sit in front of your computer later and remember the real emotion that you felt during that moment.   So one of the things that I do now, a trick that I have, is I'll pull out my phone and pull up the notes section when I'm in that moment feeling, you know, small or hurt or scared or whatever the feeling is, right? It can be good or bad.   And I'll just shorthand write out the raw feelings. Not like full paragraphs, but, now I have this big catalog of feelings, so if I want to tell a story that relates to this, that relates to body image, or that relates to whatever,  I have all these raw emotions to draw on.   I'm not faking vulnerability. It's my real stuff.  It's my real moments that I can draw from and turn into actual stories.   Another tip: A little family joke is that I'm really bad at analogies, and my family calls them "Natalogies" because a lot of times, like, you know...   The whole crux of expert secrets, is you have to be able to do epiphany bridges and analogies. And my analogies do not make sense half of the time.   I'll say them, and people are like, "that didn't make sense?" I'm just not good at them.   I hope someday, I can learn to be better at analogies. So what I try to do instead is just pull on these stories that I have - and kind of weave it together instead - 'cause my "it's kind of likes" never actually make sense.   So that's like my trick, you know how Russell talks about in the soap opera sequences, to start with the drama - to start with the most dramatic point, and then you tell the back story...   In my posts, a lot of times, I do that.   I start with like the hurt, the pain. Whatever you're feeling, the run moment, start with that, 'cause then people will automatically be like, "Whoa. She's talking about something nobody talks about."   And then what I do is I, and this is just my style. Everybody will find their own style.   But my step number two is to show myself some grace. Remind myself "perfectly imperfect, it's okay," or,  just show yourself some grace, and in some words, type that out.   Then the third step is to try to remind myself of a time when this has happened before and I worked through it -  or when somebody else has gone through something like this and worked through it.   Stephen - Right.   Natalie - And then the fourth step is; I always finish up on a positive note.   So like, either how I worked through it - if this is a past experience, or if I don't know how to work through it, I share what my plan is to try to work through it, even if you fail trying, right?   So what it does is it puts people, like, when you're, when you start with the raw stuff, it makes people feel like, “whoa, like, that could be me, because I've felt that exact same way.”   And then you're giving yourself grace, and you're teaching other people how to show, how to give themselves grace if they're in the same shoes, and then when you talk about how you work through it.   It's like, somebody else could look at you, look at your situation and say, “Whoa, I'm in that situation too, and if she can work through it, I probably can, too.”   And so, I think that's why a lot of my content has gone really viral, is because I make it relatable by sharing, it's not fake. I mean, they're the real moments, and then I come up with like a positive, and it's not.   Stephen - End with hope at the end.   Natalie - It ends with hope, yeah, but it's not like, talking down to somebody.   It's not like, you have to do x, y, and z, or I'm so perfect on my high horse here.   It's more like, we're in this together. We're all in the arena, and we've all fallen down. Let's dust off our knees, and this is how I'm gonna try to stand up. I might get knocked back again, but like, this is what I'm trying.   I don't know if that makes sense at all, but I think that's why... there's an underlying subtleness of talking down to somebody or being on the same playing field and championing everybody to come up together.   I don't know if I have the language to always describe how I do it, but that's kind of the feeling behind it.   I have written and deleted and written and deleted, 'cause I'm like,“This feels like I know everything,” or you know, I'm like talking down, and I never want that to come across that way.   Stephen - Right. Absolutely, and you know, you know what it reminded me of is so like, you know, we always tell people, like, start publishing before you have a big following.   Natalie - Mmhmm.   Stephen - So that you can bring them with you and you become the expert in front of them.   Natalie - Exactly.   Stephen - Rather than become an expert and then start publishing, 'cause it's so less believable.   You've done the same thing with the vulnerability, which is fascinating. Like, yes, start it. Don't be afraid to talk about the low moments, not that it always needs to be low, and it probably shouldn't always be, but you know...   Natalie - Totally.   Stephen - But being open about what's actually going on and doing it in front of 'em rises everyone together. That's fascinating.   Natalie - Well, and what's crazy is that it never gets... well, it's always a process, right?   So, what's weird is that eight years ago, for me to talk about the body image stuff, it was so hard for me, 'cause that's where I was. I was in that phase of my life where I was really struggling with that, right?   And so, I did the work, and I went through the process unintentionally.   I didn't know I was doing the work at the time. I was just being vulnerable. I was sharing.   So what's cool is that, fast forward to now, I don't really have all of those body image insecurities that I had then, and I think it's honestly because I was willing to talk about it in the moment.   Now, fast forward to today, and the issues that I'm struggling with are different.   I'm a different person than I was eight years ago, right?   So when I built my audience with talking about the body image stuff, now, it's like, "okay, I don't feel like I have to talk about that as much, 'cause I've not grown past it," - that's not the right word, but  it's not my main focus anymore. And now it's...   Like, okay, you know, I went through a divorce, and I haven't really talked about that very much publicly.   But now it's like, "Okay, now I'm sitting in this moment where  I'm at a crossroads." Am I gonna do what has worked for me in the past and be vulnerable and open up and share these things that feel uncomfortable to me again, right?   It's not the body image stuff anymore. Now it's personal development and relationships and the struggles that I've had with my business.   Like, it's always changing.   So vulnerability is never like, you just learn how to be vulnerable and you've got it. Like, it's always easy.   It is easier for me to be vulnerable on the body image stuff, but now it's shifted to "how can I grow?"   And the only hope I have is that I know that it worked with the body stuff. So  I'm hoping that five years down the road, I can look back and say, "Okay, I was scared to be vulnerable.  I was scared to talk about these things, but it got me into this confident, comfortable zone because I shared."   Stephen - No, totally, totally. Like, I went through a lot of the exact same, you know, it's funny because I feel like it's the emotion that binds people.   While I haven't gone through a divorce, there are other times where I felt really vulnerable as well. And so whilst that person may not have gone through a divorce, if we didn't have the same experiences, we did have the same emotions, and being able to expose the emotion, I feel like, is what binds people. I think it's interesting what you said.   Anyway, quirks, the little quirks that you have or the little vulnerabilities you have, that's your superpower. That's the reason people follow you. They don't follow you because of pure perfection 24/7. That actually annoys people after a while. But you actually get personal healing along the way. Like that's so, that's so amazing.   Could you tell us a little bit... I mean, this is Sales Funnel Radio, and you're talking about your sales funnel. Like, what does this have to do with sales funnels? Why does it matter? 'Cause it totally does, but just for everyone else, you know.   Natalie - Well, it 100% matters because the thing that I've learned is although I'm not the best trainer in the world. Like, I will be the first to admit that. Yes, I'm a personal trainer, but like, people don't buy my programs because....   I mean there are probably people that can talk science better than I can. I stumble over my words. I have mild dyslexia, and I mix up scientific terms all the time. But the reason people follow me and the reason people buy my programs, the reason we were able to sell so many of this book, is because of the connection.   I owned a company called Dollar Workout Club a couple of years ago, and we would film our workouts, and we never cut the cameras. And we would always be joking and be like, "guys, if you're at home you can relate to the doorbell ringing or whatever, right?" And it was very relatable.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - Well, in one of the workouts, I happened to be wearing gray shorts, and Drew, the only guy, the other trainer, wrote the workout, and it was all jumping exercises, right?   So, we're doing the jumping, and I'm like, "Oh, crap." I could tell I was like, peeing my pants a little bit, right?   It was so embarrassing.  I'm wearing gray shorts and you can see this little tiny spot, then by the end, my whole butt was just... it was so gross. It's just covered in pee. At the end, I'm trying to stretch and turn sideways so you can't see.   Anyways, I could have never shared that, and I didn't for a while. I was really embarrassed about it. But we have that footage. So then when I went to go create this program, I could take screenshots from that video. I could take the actual video and put it in my funnel.   So what happened is people were like, "Whoa, this woman actually peed her pants." Like, this is embarrassing. I mean, truth be told, this program almost didn't come out, 'cause I had to have a heart-to-heart with myself really, and say, "okay, Natalie, are you willing to tell the whole world that you used to pee your pants," you know?   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - But what happens is then you can put those real stories in your funnel. You can put the photos. And it's kind of like instead of social proof this is your real story and your real-life proof.   "Whoa, this woman understands me and this woman gets me." Because the truth is that real change, like, I can give you the best meal plan and the best workout program in the whole world, but it's not gonna have a lasting, long-term effect until you make that internal change and have that belief in yourself.   I feel like that is my gift, is helping people see their value and their power. And so, you know...   Stephen - People kind of have an identity shift with the vulnerability that you have, almost. That's fascinating.   Natalie - 100%. And so that's the psychology behind it.  I think that when you are willing to be real vulnerable, not fake vulnerable... If you're willing to be real vulnerable, people can relate to that. And once people relate to it, they begin to trust you, and then once they trust you, they'll buy from you.   My biggest fear is that when people listen to me talk about this, they're gonna be like, "Oh, I see dollar signs. I'm just gonna like, figure out how I can be vulnerable." But the truth is, people are smart. Your customers are smart, and they will smell out fake vulnerability.   Stephen - Right.   Natalie - And so.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - The biggest thing... If you're sitting there and you're thinking, "There's no way I could ever talk about this," then you're on the right path. That's how you know it's real vulnerability.   If you seriously feel nervous to share it and talk about it, and you think: “Everybody will think I'm a fraud. Everybody will think I'm a bad parent." Everybody will think I'm a bad husband or wife. Nobody's gonna find me attractive."   All of these things, these stories that we tell ourselves that you feel if you start talking about, people are gonna think you're terrible... Guess what? That's the real good stuff that you need to be talking about and sharing if you wanna create real connection and live a wholehearted life.   Stephen - Totally believe that yeah. 'Cause I struggled. Anyway, when you got up, and you were speaking about that on stage, I was like, "Man, I know, I feel ya, holy crap."   I had like, zero confidence. So rather than choose not to be active and do this game, I just called out my fear publicly, and that became a theme for a little bit.   It was like, "Look, guys, I don't really wanna be doing this, although I got something cool to show you, all right?"   And for a while, that was the theme of it. And then as I grew up and healed, (I like how you said that) I passed certain things in front of the audience.   Then it was like, "Whoa, I've gotta wait for this new episode," or "what's he doing now?" And it was crazy, crazy. That was worth more than me putting hundreds of episodes out of just the best content ever.   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - It was crazy, crazy what that did.   So, what would you say is, like...   So you tell people, go ahead and start recording down things that are going on in the moment. Don't feel the pressure to go ahead and say it in the moment, which I totally agree with. I don't know if I can handle that.   Natalie - Well, and it can be whatever platform you like the most, right? Mine happened to be Facebook, but some people are better at YouTube, or some people are better at podcasting or Instagram.   There's not one that's better or worse. Just find what feels the easiest for you and start there.   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - I will say too...   So, one of the downsides of being vulnerable is, and I don't let this scare you from being vulnerable, but it does happen. It still happens to me.   So when you're open and transparent about your life, for some reason, and I get it. We're that way with celebrities, right?   You're like, "I wanna know why they broke up." And both sides of the story; people feel like they know every aspect of your life. And I do share a lot, but I don't share everything.   And so what can happen is that you get harsh people on the internet. And we all get that anyways. Even just last night.   I get mean from people messages every day pretty much.   Luckily, I have my team now to kind of shield me from it, just 'cause it's like silly.   Stephen - I have to do the same, yeah.   Natalie - Yeah, just 'cause it's hard for me to continue to be vulnerable if I'm always reading the negative messages.   Stephen - Yeah, I'm the same.   Natalie - But one woman was like, "You are so different from how you used to be. You used to share your progress photos, and now you just talk about your life."   The truth is, we all change and grow as people, right? And so for me, posting an ab selfie now, I don't get validation or fulfillment. I don't need that like I did six years ago. So, yeah, if you look at my feed, I don't post as much like, like, body image stuff, because I'm kind of like in a different space.   And so what will happen is that as you're transparently sharing what you're focused on in your life, sometimes, you will get people that you don't attract anymore.   Like, they're still in a different area, and they want to follow people that are in that area, and that's okay.   What I've had to learn is that the number-one thing when you get mean people on the internet, and it took me a long time to figure this out, is that it's so much more about them and what they're personally struggling with than it is about you, you know?   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - Okay, so, for example, my peach tree. So we had a big wind storm. I'm sure you saw it 'cause we live in the same town.   So, this tree that I've nurtured for two years, finally had some fruit coming off of it, well the storm completely broke the tree, and I was really sad. I posted about it on my Insta Story, and she wrote back, and she was calling me all these mean names, and she's like, "To think that your biggest worry right now is that your peach tree died. My mom just died, and my brother is sick."     And I realize she's hurting because of that, and she's lashing out at me, right?   So it's a reflection of her. It's not a reflection of me. And so that was the hardest thing I had to learn, being open and vulnerable in the online space, is that you will get critics.   I always say it's like the people in the peanut gallery out there who aren't, like...   I'll listen to criticism from people who are in the arena with me, right, people who are battling and fighting and trying and working hard, but if it's just a critic out in the peanut gallery that isn't there fighting along with me, then their opinion doesn't matter.   It's probably more about them than me.   Stephen - You're better than I am, then. There are times I just, I don't know.   Natalie - Well, I did block her.   Stephen - I like to fight with 'em sometimes. And I shouldn't, and I'm growing past that, and there's me being vulnerable. I like to stir the pot sometimes when it's already brewing.   Natalie - You should talk about that, Stephen. So you should talk about it-  not just like the fun, "I said this, and he said that" but the real issues, "why did that trigger you?" And what's the story behind that insecurity?   Those are the things that people love. Not just the story, but going deeper into the feeling or the "why" behind it - you know?   Stephen - Yeah.   Natalie - I don't know.   Stephen - I told you, yeah, some of it's going on right now still with some other people. Like, it comes in waves. I don't know if that happens for you too.   Natalie - Yes.   Stephen - It's like the criticism goes down, whoa, and then it goes away, and you're like, everything rocks, and then you try something big again, and everyone's like, "whoa!" Not everyone, but there's like, anyway, the talking heads, as I call them, come on out. It's the armchair quarterbacks.   Natalie - Uh-huh, 100%.   Stephen - Yeah, I told you, and I've been planning on doing that. Funny you say that. I just haven't quite formulated how to do it yet, so.   Natalie - Yeah.   Stephen - It's top of mind.   I wanna thank you for being on here with everyone, and guys, Sales Funnel Radio, we're talking about vulnerability.   This is everything, especially if you are the attractive character in your own business - which I hope that you are, and you choose to be.   This is not a tiny subject. It's something that you will not have the choice to go around. You will address it whether it's through haters or your own personal growth. You're gonna get it.   So, please, please go follow Natalie. Natalie, where should people go to follow you?   Natalie - My website is nataliehodson.com, or Facebook is Natalie Hodson Official. Instagram is nataliehodson1   Stephen - Cool.   Natalie - If anybody has any questions, you know, you can leave 'em, and I'll keep checking 'em. I'll answer them and stuff.   The books that I talked about are Brene Brown's Daring Greatly and Rising Strong.  I think they're books every single human being on this planet should listen to.   I call the books magic, 'cause I've listened to them probably six times now, and every time, I need to hear a different piece. I gain something different from them every time, you know? They're good books.   Stephen - I wrote it down. I'm excited. I'm gonna go get them right after this.   Natalie - Cool.   Stephen - That's awesome. Everyone, guys, thank you so much.   Please reach out to Natalie and say thank you and go follow her, and watch her practice what she preaches on this stuff. It's fantastic and amazing - and that lets her audience open up as well.   So Natalie, thank you so much for being on, and it's been a pleasure.   Natalie - Yeah, you're so welcome.   Stephen - Woohoo, hey, thanks for listening.   Hey, many don't know that I actually made my first money online as an affiliate marketer.   If you wanna know how I funded my entire company without using any of my own money ever, you can learn to do the same for free at affiliateoutrage.com.

In my previous episode called You are the answer’ I talked about the results on my business that my sabbatical had. Namely all the changes I made before taking time off - new website, new brand, new systems - and how they initially negatively affected the business. I think this is partly because it was too much change all at once. Now, fortunately the changes are making a positive impact on my business and the results we track weekly. But it seemed pretty dire at the time! Then I realized that this happened in my personal life too, with the complete 180 degree flip I’ve made since April. I tell you, business is one thing but massive life changes are something else! As Shana Aborn said in her article Coping with Life Changes: “For many of us, disruption to familiar routine sparks anything from mild anxiety to extreme terror. Maybe something's been pushed on us, like being downsized or getting sick. Just as likely, we've made a risky but necessary choice, like relocating to a new town or having our elderly parents move in with us. Shift happens, like it or not—that's part of the human adventure. Then why do we resist so much? It's partly a natural fear of the unfamiliar. People think of change as something dangerous. But it helps to remember all the ways your life has been altered in the past and realize that not only did you not keel over and die, things often turned out for the better.” I’ve never been afraid of change, I’ve always welcomed it with open arms. The very nature of how I’ve lived my life for the last seven years is testament to that fact. Changing locations every couple of weeks has meant a constant barrage of change - new surroundings, often a new language, new people to meet and things to learn - all the time. This is something that many people find daunting, but I really love. Or did, until that time that I felt like slowing down a little, having a base I can call my own and being surrounded by more nature, less fast paced city life. But the changes I made come April 5th, when Josh and I flew back from Bali to move into our new property, a huge house with 2.5 acres of land, have actually thrown me completely. It was too much change, too fast and I completely underestimated this. While my friends and community were quick to point out that it was a massive shift in how I live my life and that it must be quite the shock, I saw it as exciting. Let’s put it in perspective. I went from constant full-time travel out of my suitcase to living in one house, with no international travel for the first three months of being back in New Zealand. I went from being single in December to a loving full-time relationship, and moving in together in my apartment for a few months, to then buying a house together, creating joint bank accounts and taking on this beautiful property - Josh’s first ever property ownership. I went from zero responsibility to this mortgage, getting a puppy a week after moving in and five chickens the week after. From owning so little stuff to having to furnish a 369 sqm house with four bedrooms and two living rooms in just a few weeks. (People who visit us now say how it looks like we’ve lived here for years). I went from a full on business period, getting it ready for my sabbatical and writing the Freedom Plan book manuscript which I finished on March 30th, to NO work. And I went from eternal summers traveling the world to my first ever autumn (fall) and winter. And that was probably the biggest kicker - I hate being cold. So with all that in mind, no wonder I’ve had moments of doubt, and even mild depression - or more rather feeling simply lost. I had literally taken everything that is my identity - travel, my suitcase entrepreneur brand, business and singledom and thrown it out the window! Too much change all at once. It didn’t hit me straight away, but I can definitely see the path now, and why even just a few weeks ago, I was still feeling demotivated and lost. The initial three to four weeks were pure excitement due to what I term "Project Set up House" which involved constant daily checking of Trademe.co.nz (like eBay and Gumtree) and winning auctions and buying used furniture. I was shopping for house stuff, and then going to collect it via trucks we hired - doing it DIY style - super fun by the way, but a lot of organization and effort. Then it became settling in and a few ongoing projects and trips to get other things we needed ike bins and domestic bliss items as I call them, that you just don’t realize you need until you’ve been living in a house for a while. Next up we collected Kayla, my adorable White German Shepherd eight week old puppy within just one week of moving in. To be honest I had NO idea how much energy a puppy has and how much attention and training you need to do with them, and for yourself. It was constant supervision and learning, coupled with lots of beautiful moments, followed by pain, bites, scratching, peeing, pooping and me yelling or losing the plot. Now I know how it feels to have a low maintenance kid over an intense period! Yes it’s like having a kid, but luckily you can put them in their happy place (aka crate) when you need some time out. That was my other problem, I spent too much time with Kayla, wanting to be the best puppy Mum and learning as much as I could through books and videos about her training. I didn’t give myself time out, instead I became rather isolated out in our home at the same time Josh’s business schedule turned into a full on one, that saw him leaving the house on the 6:45am train and getting back after 7pm. For a social butterfly like me I severely underestimated how much human connection I crave and require to feel motivated, valuable and helpful. Not having the workload from my business was pure bliss but at the same time quite a transition as it’s all I know. And to not have to worry about it suddenly meant I threw myself into online learning taking a number of interesting and varied courses on areas I don’t know much about. I also had to train myself not to watch, monitor and get caught up in what other entrepreneurs were doing. Hence the previous episode about not playing the comparison game but instead being your own No #1 fan and believing in your abilities. At one point I was raring to dive into something new and start a fresh business project, but I restrained myself as I knew, at that stage, I didn’t have enough energy yet for that. It also wasn’t the solution I was after. I just needed to be and stop doing. Which brings me to a conversation I had last week with my dear friend Gideon Shalwick, who himself has gone through many reinventions himself in the last four years, from personal brand and video expert, to starting a new video software business and more. He’s been digging into and learning a lot about the Universal Cycles of Change via Tim and Kris Hallbom over at The Wealthy Mind. I had never heard about it, so before I share our snippet of conversation I wanted to give you and I some background on it because it’s juicy stuff and it’s important. Universal Cycles of Change According to the Academy of Leadership Coaching and NLP there are seven change patterns that govern our lives. In a business context, leaders who are able to embrace this cycle often emerge stronger and more emotionally aware and understand how to best support themselves and their team members through change. Creation The word creation evokes pictures of new beginnings. It is the beginning of a new life event – the starting point that typically begins with an idea or an action. This could be the start of new business, or a new stage of leadership development. Creation marks the point where we begin our journey. It is an “X” marks the spot kind of moment – and once we move from that location, a new journey starts. Growth From the moment creation begins we start to grow. We develop and become “self-organizing.” This means is that once the creation takes place, new patterns of behavior start to develop, and the system organizes itself around the original creation. For example once a new business is launched, the business owner needs to start making plans – this could be product development, marketing plans, new clients and new staff. The business has taken its shape as a business (it was created), and now it is starting to grow. Steady State A steady state is a place of great comfort. It has past the point of creation and through the pains of growth to a place of what feels like you have arrived. It is a place where all systems are go and are firing correctly. Everything is moving forward as planned and everyone is in their sweet spot. It is a position to which most leaders aspire. And, if leaders are not careful, it can also become a point of complacency which will inevitably lead to the next phase in the cycle Turbulence I have heard it said that we are either in a crisis, coming out of a crisis or heading back into a crisis. Turbulence occurs when the system becomes too complex, or we become lax in our preparation, and problems begin to develop. Times of turbulence can be viewed in two ways depending upon the maturity of the leader. They can be used as a warning sign to right the ship and get back on track, or they can be ignored. Ignorance, however, often leads to chaos. Chaos Chaos is when the system begins to fall apart. It is past the point of the bumps and jolts of turbulence to a full blown tail spin. It is the time when leaders need to take control before something catastrophic happens. Dropping Off Dropping off is the point of acceptance for many leaders. It is often the lowest point in the cycle of change. The point when an individual has no other recourse but to let go and move on. It could be closing a door on a failed business and moving elsewhere or getting rid of a caustic employee. It can be painful, but also should be viewed as an important turning point in the cycle. It is the point when a leader takes control. In order to move forward through a difficult life challenge, we often need to let go of a limiting belief, a dysfunctional relationship, change a behavior or reorganize how we view the world. This allows us to make the space to create something wonderfully new. `Meditation & Dormancy Meditation and inward silence (dormancy) are the final point in the Universal Cycles of Change. Just as a tree stands without leaves in the brisk cold winter, leaders need to “be” like the tree, standing in the moment and accepting who they are and where they have been placed. It might be uncomfortable for a while, but meditating and inward silence can be very healing and ultimately can set the tone for a new Universal Cycle of Change, creativity and growth. So now you have that context, let’s pick up with Gideon and I. Gideon: “I am so glad that you took that sabbatical. It's so important that you go through this stages of the droppings off, and the shedding where you let go or prune something off, and then you just have a break. If you jump straight from the chaos stage to a new creative cycle, then you end up taking that back with you and you don't rest. You are just depleting the tank more and more. So you might get a bit of energy from this new creative process but if you didn't deal with that previous cycle properly, it holds you back on the next cycle.” Natalie: It’s so true because I think back to where I’ve tried to step back a little before and take a small break. It helps you for a little. Then there have been times where you’ve been excited by say, maybe another business idea. But I am really proud of myself because I have had that moment and I thought, "Is it just exciting because it’s totally new and therefore it gives me energy right now?" What about coming back to what I’ve got and getting re-energized about the stuff that I know I love and I’m good at, and that’s where I think I’ve got to on that stage now. But I needed that break and then I needed to come back with a new perspective and go, “You are not throwing all that hard work away, all that credibility and all the things you’ve built up.” Just come at it with a fresh perspective and improve upon the bits that you really believe in and you think are amazing. And that’s why with the Freedom Plan I have this whole new perspective about it. I want to have this freedom tracker, some apps and make it world class. And that is new to me yet that’s my core offering. So that’s where I came to in this circle as you said. Gideon: We understand this cycle and that each stage is really important. It gives you perspective but also patience. For this latest cycle that I went through, I realized that I was actually in the rest phase. Previously I would try and rush it. But then I just went "Screw it. I am not going to push anything. I am just going to sit back and I don't care what happens. I am going to let the universe share me what is the next step. When have you found yourself rushing into the next thing because it feels energizing? Only to realize after a few months your energy is depleted again and your motivation is waning. As Gideon points out, that’s because you really haven’t dealt with the shit that was holding you back or troubling you before. You’ve just transferred your attention on to the next bright shiny object. Back to my business sabbatical story…. I had a beautiful period where the weather was amazing, where I could finally take Kayla out into the public (post her vaccinations), and we started discovering beautiful nature bush walks. I also was loving the house more and more, as well as pottering in the garden and being outside. I was becoming truly grateful for this amazing location and our joint vision for what it could become. I had new friends I’d made starting to come over each Tuesday for coworking sessions and things felt good. But then things shifted. Josh wasn’t here at all during the weekdays, our workouts in our crossfit barn gym had stopped, the weather was getting colder and the novelty of this new life started wearing off. I’d scan my Instagram and Facebook feed to see beautiful photos and videos of friends in exotic locations and for the first time ever I could see how my life used to look to others - damn it looked amazing. The odd thing was I didn’t want to be there, but I did want the feeling of what they were experiencing. And I missed Portugal - as I would have been there in my three bedroom town house and learning to surf, if we hadn’t bought here. So how did I get myself out of this funk of too much change? Well it took some work. It helped that my Science of Happiness course was taking me through the stages of empathy, kindness, compassion and mindfulness. I was putting that into practice. I talked it through with friends, I read up a little on it, and mostly I stepped back to see what was really going on to change how I was feeling. In Shana’s article, she shared this advice, that I hope is valuable for you if you’re going through change: “Fighting what's happening just leads to frustration and keeps you from growing to your full potential. When you try to put your life in a box and keep it the same all the time, you're making something dead out of it. Welcoming new things can even be good for your health. People who greet what life offers with curiosity have stronger immune systems and live longer. The first step is realizing that even though you can't control what pops up in your life, you can alter how you react. When change happens, say yes. Learn and grow from it. Taking a live-in-the-moment attitude will help keep you from miring yourself in what-ifs and should-haves. The most important thing to remember, though, is that you already have the inner resources to make the most out of anything that comes your way. Bring out your natural resiliency by taking a look at how you can deal with six of life's most common upheavals.” How I handled it was slightly different. I pretty much NEVER get down or depressed, but after two many weeks of waking up and feeling lost, unmotivated and down, Josh and I had a heart to heart, and here’s what I came up. Five Ways To Get Yourself Over Too Much Change All At Once And here are my five tips. Focus on quality time. We both agreed to make more time for each other, that he would get some time off teaching in his business and we’d take long weekends or have days together here at home. Essentially we’d spend more quality time together. As an entrepreneur I appreciate some periods in your life are just going to be crazy and full on and you need to show up to them 100%, and Josh is going through one of those periods. But I could also see how it was draining him and therefore me, even though we supportive of each other. Once we acknowledged that things became a lot better instantly and we felt so much more connected. Make time for you. I started putting Kayla into dog daycare once a week and heading into town to cowork, meet with friends and entrepreneurs and enjoy the city vibe. I also started meeting more people in the area we now live, making friends and going for dog walks, having them over to visit or visiting them and making time for lunches or meetups. Wallow where necessary. That may sound odd but too quickly we try to come up with solutions and find the answer. I purposefully wallowed in how I was feeling, on the good moments and bad ones and asked myself how I was feeling, what did I think the cause was and could I shift it with an attitude reset, or a change in activity or scene? Practicing mindfulness, like I discussed in this Mind Your Mindfulness really helped to be aware and present, and not listen to the voice inside my head, that at the time, was not helpful at all! Embrace the seasons. I’m a summer baby, but this has been a particularly beautiful winter in New Zealand with more sunshine than ever. We are also blessed to have two fantastic woodburners that pelt out the heat. So I started to appreciate clear blue skies on these wintery days, the sunshine and the opportunity to rug up and go walking with my gorgeous puppy. I also got over my minimalist suitcase self, and simply bought warmer clothes which made me feel much better and more inclined to get out and about. I lit more fires, drank more hot herbal teas and nourished myself with homemade soups. I also started the 30 Day Yoga Challenge with Adrienne - can’t recommend her free YouTube Channel enough. She’s an angel. I notice the effects of yoga on my body and mind very quickly. I felt amazing. The seasons are here for a reason, as I read in Elizabeth Peru’s Global Energy Report (if you’re into that kind of thing, I’m experimenting with reading it daily and taking what I need from it). Winter is the time for focused project work and doing, spring is time for launching and summer is the time to take off and enjoy the fruits of your labour. So I am focusing my efforts on upgrading and transforming my content, my Freedom Plan program and my offerings. Learn, grow and relearn. A lot of the stories that were circulating in my head simply needed to be replaced with better ones. I needed to take control of my own attitude and focus on what I wanted. Even when I got sick and was feeling less than sure on what the heck I was doing, I knew that it was up to me to CHOOSE what I wanted to happen. And for me that meant reading inspiring books - both novels and business related, learning new things from online courses, meeting new people and getting involved. Like running popup coworking trials in Upper Hutt to connect with more entrepreneurs (and making the news). I coupled this with relearning. A big part of my sabbatical was to get a fresh perspective and I’ve since fallen back in love with the foundations of why I started my business and what made it successful in the first place. I’ve been conducting interviews with Freedom Plan Alumni members and getting jazzed up at making it a World Class experience when I relaunch it in spring. I’ve been doing interviews for podcasts and sharing my story and this new story and it’s been super cathartic for me and great for the interviewers who’ve loved hearing the rawness of it. I’ve taken opportunities I’d been saying no to on my sabbatical and they’d reenergized me and fed my soul. It led to me being on stage with Roger Hamilton at Fast Forward Your Business the day I was officially back in business, and getting interviewed by NBR (National Business Review) this week! And while in Melbourne Josh and I did our three year Life Plan together which was huge, because I finally had the clarity and energy to know what I want out of life, business and love over the next three years. So those are my five major takeaways on my Quest for Freedom….for now. And it seems a solid place to round out Season 2 before embarking on next season where I’m going to head into the realm of Self Learning and Mastery. Never lose sight of the ability to design your freedom lifestyle around what you most want. This episode is proudly brought to you by Freshbooks. So you’re racing against the clock to wrap up 3 projects, prepping for a meeting later in the afternoon all while trying to tackle a mountain of paperwork. Welcome to life as a freelancer. Challenging? Yes, but our friends at FreshBooks believe the rewards are so worth it. The working world has changed. With the growth of the internet there’s never been more opportunities for the self-employed. To meet this need, FreshBooks is excited to announce the launch of an all new version of their cloud accounting software! It’s been redesigned from the ground up and custom built for exactly the way you work. Get ready for the simplest way to be more productive, organized, and most importantly get paid quickly. 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I've only been in Bali five days and I already feel blissed out. I've had four massages, two meditation sessions, one surf lesson, two yoga lessons and a 4.5 hour pampering session! And I TOTALLY needed this, because the last month or two has been pretty cray-cray. As you may remember in my previous episode called Changing Plans, there's been quite a few plans that have been changed, including now owning a lifestyle property and getting a puppy for my birthday. Yes! My lovely man Josh has gone ahead and put a deposit on a white German Shepherd. So when I get back to New Zealand on April 5th, it's going to be all go - moving into the house, getting it furnished, setting up our new base and waiting on the puppy. I was content to go hard out on the organizing, planning, doing and making shit happen on all fronts, because I knew I'd be having this relax time in Bali, and of course my upcoming business sabbatical starting April 1st. If you've never been to Bali, let me just tell you this island has a very special energy to it. It's renowned for being a vortex of feminine energy. So for females in particular, when you're here you have this sense of being grounded, feeling strong, sensual and in your feminine power. Everywhere you look there are lush trees, green rice fields, beautiful flowers, street dogs, friendly Balinese people smiling, scooters whizzing by, yoga studios, cute cafes, healthy juices galore and many relaxed looking foreigners who are whiling their days away doing not a lot of anything much. Which is why Bali is the perfect island to come and unwind, de stress and lose yourself, or find yourself depending on what you're here to do. But obviously we don't all have the opportunity to buggar off to Bali when we feel like it do we? So it got me thinking: Why can't we have a mini vacation each and every day to get some of the same affects of a longer vacation? Why do we have to book in holidays months, and for some people, years in advance? Why all this waiting when we have the power and ability to take a break right now? In a Huffington Post article by Jill Ferguson she lists the benefits of vacations as: Reduces stress - as I can attest to, vacations help shrink stress and anxiety while boosting the mental and physical health of you and the entire family, if you happen to be vacationing with them. Helps your heart stay healthy - no really. In a 20-year study, researchers found that women who took a vacation once every six years or less were almost eight times more likely to develop coronary heart disease or have a heart attack than women who took at least two vacations per year. Improves your mental health (especially if it's longer than 2 weeks) because you're less tense, have higher energy levels and more positive emotions, fewer negative feelings and less depression. Improves your relationships because families or couples who vacation together undergo shared experiences, communication and togetherness, escape and relaxation and experiential learning, all of which contribute positively to well-being and to relationships. You may have heard me talk about taking a mid week weekend. I mean why wait for the weekend to experience one, but what about a daily vacation? That's a novel thought right? I dug into this idea with my dear friend Jaime Masters, of Eventual Millionaire fame, who's with me here in Bali. We planned this holiday in late 2016 when she found out she got asked to speak in the Philippines, just before my Freedom Mastermind Retreat I hold in Bali each year. So this was our window of time to fly into Bali at the same time and enjoy 9 days together. And we are doing that extremely well. Jaime is a single mother of two with an extremely successful and busy coaching and mastermind business. She's also a self prescribed geek when it comes to maximizing time efficiency and more recently bio hacking - do it yourself biology optimization, so to speak. Or as Jaime puts it - how to be a badass. So here's our jam session on how to optimize your day and also how to take mini vacations through a variety of suggested activities we do, and that we also think should be on your list. Natalie: So this is exciting! We are recording this in our lovely little room in Ketut's Place in Bali in Ubud and there's thunder and lightning happening and rain. This is cool. I am sitting on the bed as you do, with my girl, Jaime Masters and we've been talking a lot over the last couple of days about treating yourself because yesterday we had a four and a half hour pamper session! Thanks to Jaime, an early birthday present and it was amazing. And I was like, "Why don't we do this all the time?" and then I think actually if you did that all the time you'd just be in bliss zone and you wouldn't get anything done. Jaime: I think it can get boring after a little while. Natalie: Yeah, but it was pretty amazing. Like we had several massages, we had a facial; we had pedicures, manicures, head massage, hair treatment, body scrub. And I was in and out of states of bliss, in an out of state of sleeping, dreaming, imagining, ideating. It's beautiful. But what I want to just chat to you about, because I think you are really good at this with your full-time roster of amazing clients that you coach over at Eventual Millionaire and your business and your full time podcast where you are interviewing millionaires all the time. I mean you have one of the busiest schedules I know off plus you are a mom, full-time mom. So do you want to just share a couple of the ways you treat yourself throughout the day because I think you do this really well. Jaime: So first of all anybody that says that they don't have time, means that they don't want to. There is a great quote about that by Lao Tzu. "Time is a created thing. To say 'I don't have time,' is like saying, 'I don't want to." ? Lao Tzu So out of everybody I know, I am extremely busy. We need that time because we go crazy and nutso and when you get on that roll you are not efficient or effective in anything you do. So lessons learned from me sort of going a little insane, to children, and to my business and everything else has led me to actually taking the time in between. Even 15 minutes of going, "Ah! This is just for me and I don't have to do anything else." So we talked about meditation before and I definitely do meditate a lot. Sometimes in small spurts. Like I literally was just meditating for fifteen minutes while you were on the phone just now, because I feel like it gives me a deeper state of relaxation. I do that throughout the day quite often even at home in-between calls. But just trying to take that time where you can actually shut off whatever you're crazy entrepreneur brain is saying and go, "Okay this is time that I don't actually have to think about that", because otherwise we will. Our brain will just keep going forever and ever and ever. And so trying to pull those pieces out as best as you can, you know what I mean? Natalie: And I think we started discussing this from the minute I landed in Bali and I think you did too. We've both come off some pretty hectic schedules, me with house buying and packing up and book writing and helping my mom move and you with speaking in the Philippines, and having to do all the work around that as well. I think we both got to Bali and we are just like, 'ahhhhhhh' and I just noticed instantly how my mind just quietened and I've done more yoga and massage in the last two days than I had probably in the last months. So why don't we roll through, like kind of spit-fire out some of our favorite at home mini vacations we take during a pretty busy working day? Jaime: Okay so for me, I have a routine at the beginning. I literally wake up before my kids wake up now, 5:30am in the morning. I am not a morning person as much as Hal Elrod told me to wake up in the morning. I was like, "No I don't think so." It's literally only been the last four months or so. Beforehand I would meditate right after I brought them to school, but I realized that it wasn't quite enough for me and I kept feeling like I had too much to do throughout the day when the kids are at school so I moved it. And so far so good. I'm going strong but I am not a morning person! Natalie: Thunder. If you have any of this, this is real Bali in the background. Just making it real. Jaime: That was number one, so that was an evolution in my process. I have been meditating for a very long time and I was never like, "I have to meditate every day." It's just I wanted to, I wanted to. It is something that I pull out. I also do probably five to fifteen minutes in between whenever I am feeling overwhelmed or brain dead. So when I do a lot, I batch everything and so whenever I do client calls, sometimes I'm like, "How can my brain stop functioning like it should?" and being in states of flow are way more productive in general, so I try and figure out ways. There's a good book called Stealing Fire, it talks about hacking into the flow state that I was telling you a little bit about. What can we do that makes us feel so much better that we can come back and hit the ground running instead of just feeling horrid and crazy? Just what we were talking about this before too, like all day long nutso. And so I'll do that, I have a pool in the back sometimes when it's nice out, I'll go jump in the pool and reassess things, especially during the day when I'm actually working on stuff. At night time I'll definitely go, "This is my time! I am going to have a bubble bath. I am going to do whatever I can possibly do to turn that piece off". Because we don't make a conscious effort in general to turn it off. Natalie: A bubble bath is so good. I am looking forward to potentially buying a spa and having a spa pool for night time relaxation. I like the idea of a sauna, whether you go to one or have one at your place. Often gyms have a sauna so just even ten minutes sweating it out and just being present with your body is pretty amazing. Other things are just dropping into fifteen, twenty, or a thirty minute yoga session during the day, and I love starting with five minutes of downward dog because it ultimately ends up being a lot more, and just giving yourself that space. Also, when I have a dog which I am getting soon! I would just have cuddle time with my dog. I'd literally have a play time, go outside, throw the Frisbee, throw the ball, play. You've got kids around you, you'd grab them, play. Jaime: That's a funny thing. So sometimes I'm so back-to-back I like walking into the mailbox it's like my time. I literally go, "Okay I need some sun. I am going to go walk outside", because I literally only have like five minutes, like literally I am so scheduled. No matter what the time is, it doesn't matter I think it's the intention behind it that makes a huge difference. Because sometimes you can play with your dog and be like, "Oh that still didn't really help." But if you are really intentional about it, it makes-- Natalie: Throw the phone away for a minute. Jaime: As hard as it is. Natalie: Get back to nature. Sometimes just actually being outside and getting sun on your face is a really beautiful thing and just tune into the sounds around you. Jaime: I go and I lay in my backyard. I have the pool and I will go and lay on the bed and feel like, because we have an outdoor bed, just sit there for five minutes and not even have to do a meditation or anything like that, but just sort of soak in the sun. Natalie: The Vitamin D. Jaime: Sometimes I need that big time. And then being able to sort of go; "Now I reset. Now I can go back in". Very helpful. Natalie: We should caveat this with the fact that you are very efficient with your time. So it's not like you ever say, "I am really busy." You are fulfilled. You are busy but I as you said you batch things. Do you want to maybe talk people through kind of your working week so that... they do hear that you have time off, and time out and you are really good at, oh we didn't even mention it, you get regular massages? So do I but you get them every single week, yeah? Jaime: Oh yeah. Natalie: I think if you can you should even if it's half an hour. Jaime: Well this is the thing I kept going, "Oh I don't have the time because I have kids and I can't... when can I get a massage when I don't have them. We'll I have to work during the school hours". All that craziness goes on in your head. Let me just say, everybody can solve every problem pretty much. So my massage person comes in at their bed time, my kids go to bed, massage person comes in and I literally go to sleep right afterwards. Natalie: They come to your house? Jaime: They come to my house. It's not anymore expensive either. And they will do it like nine o'clock at night which is insane. Natalie: And then you just go to sleep? Jaime: I just go to sleep. It's like the best ever. It's amazing but it's because I am so scheduled and so intentional with my time. Because this is the thing too, it's not like I don't take a time off with the kids, it's that I have to be super effective whenever I am doing whatever I am doing. I have a lot of things going on so a typical schedule for me ,and I make my clients do all this too. I call it the master's schedule: Mondays are meeting days, back to back meetings like literally, with my masterminds, with my personal scrum from my team. Tuesdays are coaching days. Wednesdays, every other Wednesday is an interview so either back to back millionaire interviews or back to back me doing interviews on other people's podcast and then the rest of the week is free. So it's 'working free' so within the time my kids are in school which they get out at three thirty. Then I have open space that I can actually fill in advance because I am one of those people. But usually when I have the kiddos I'm done at three and then I don't work again unless it's like a crazy launch and I have to make an exception. It's me like going for a walk with the kids or I try and get some of the more special, relaxing kind of time with them. Not that I don't have to do homework, not that I don't have to do all the other stuff, but it's just trying to have that space within the confinement. How to take a quick daily vacation Alright hopefully you have some firm ideas on how to take a daily mini vacation. To recap: Short bursts of exercise - dance, walk to the mailbox, dip in the pool, play with your dog, drop down and do yoga. Treat yourself - have a massage or a sauna, at home or book it in at your local. Read a book - jump in a hammock, laze on your bed, lie on the floor, curl up in the couch, throw your phone away and disconnect the internet for 30 mins...then enjoy your fave book. Pleasure yourself - did I really just say that? Heck yeah I did. Have a quickie, grab your fave sex toy and take a moment to...you know...have some fun. Or grab your partner and kiss them passionately. It releases endorphins which are feel good hormones and everyone needs those - plus you do that stuff on vacation right? So this IS a mini vacation. Meditation - refer to episode 2 - Mind Your Mindfulness for a 1 minute one! They say meditation can be better than sleep and sometimes sex. So I think it's time to really take this one seriously. Before we bring back Jaime, as she's been delving into meditation for almost a decade but has upped her game in the last year with amazing results, let's say hello to Freshbooks The working world has changed. With the growth of the internet there's never been more opportunities for the self-employed. To meet this need, FreshBooks is excited to announce the launch of an all new version of their cloud accounting software! It's been redesigned from the ground up and custom built for exactly the way you work. Get ready for the simplest way to be more productive, organized, and most importantly get paid quickly. The all new FreshBooks is not only ridiculously easy to use, it's also packed full of powerful features. Here are just a few of the ones Jessica Broome, entrepreneur and Freshbooks customer loves: Go to freshbooks.com/quest and check out their full list of amazing features then sign up and save yourself time and money today. Just enter Quest For Freedom where it says 'How did you hear about us'. Ok, let's dive into meditation. So on a couple of the previous episodes I've been talking about meditation. And I have to say that I think we've only just scratched the surface on this and I am going to be doing a lot more work around this. But having chatted to Jaime over the last couple of days intensely around her her meditation practice, I've seen this different side to it so I think I've always sat on the surface going, "What if I could just get five or ten or fifteen minutes a day?". I know the benefits of meditation but I wanted to bring Jaime back because she's just sort of open my mind and blown my mind with the routine and the practice and the intention behind her meditation and how much is that impacting everything else. So I haven't seen Jaime for a year and a half and this time around seeing her I turned up and I was like, "Oh my gosh! You are just more like grounded." So here's a conversation we had about her meditation. Natalie: So who is this Joe Dispenza guy that you keep going on about? Jaime: Okay so I've been meditating for a really really long time and then I became a disciple. The reason why I found Joe is because I'd injured my foot and he wrote a book called "You Are the Placebo" and I didn't want to have foot surgery. That's the thing it was for the problem-solution piece of it. I'd always meditated. I didn't even know his whole thing was about meditation. Natalie: How did you find him? Jaime: My best friend gave me the book. Because she had been following him for awhile. But I was just trying to solve whatever the heck that thing was. I didn't know how deep he goes into meditation about how your body can change itself. And so it makes sense with, You Are the Placebo, but I never linked meditation and that before which was really awesome. Because before I thought it was, "I am a crazy, business entrepreneur that needs to get everything out of her head and feel okay" because otherwise I might have anxiety or whatever the pieces are. That's why I'd meditated before. And then I found this thing and I was like, "Oh there's so much more to it than that!" Natalie: And they are self-guided aren't they? Which I like because It's quite hard to just sit and not have thoughts. In fact, it's near impossible. Even the monks after many decades of practice don't' do it super well but they are far better than us. And I think I'd like to be like walking down the beach listening to meditation and then there you were, I was having a surf lesson and you were walking down the beach listening to a self-guided meditation. One where Joe got you to like ground your feet into the sand at one point, stop and just be. So I love the sound of that. Because I love walking and I like being active while meditating. What happens in that meditation? Jaime: So that one's really interesting. Joe has a bazillion different types of meditation. Some were shorter. This one's an hour and fifteen minutes. Some of our friends are like, "Oh surfing is so like that". It was funny when I was walking, thankfully eyes open for quite a bit, I was looking at some of the surfers and just thinking about how amazing that is too. There's a quite a few different pieces to his types of meditation. And so one is a big breathing aspect and then walking, where he doesn't have you do that because you look weird. But what he does as you start walking, he has you start envisioning your future and then walking as your future self. And imagining whatever happened that you want to have happened in the future as if it was a memory of the past. So you are walking and he is like talking about how to think of this and think of that, and as you are walking you feel amazing, on top of the world type of person. And then he has you stop and just close your eyes and imagine the feelings that you would feel: gratitude, joy - whatever those things are or affirmations are. And literally, because your body's been walking and energized, already like to me it goes like crazy. It makes you really feel the emotions. And then you walk again. And it levels up the emotional side of it. Levels up the feeling of, "Oh my gosh! This is what I'll feel like in the future." Right, that confidence, whatever those pieces are. And so you are sort of stepping into what that is and it makes a lot more believable. So as an entrepreneur I feel like, "Oh I want to speak on a stage at TEDx in front of a thousand people." I was chatting with somebody when I spoke in the Philippines, she's like, "I love crowds of 10,000 to 15,000 people." And I was like, "Hmmmm. I haven't done that before. 10,000 people that's a lot of people. Wow, Okay great!" She said, "The energy is just insane." And so then I started going, "Let's imagine what that would look like. I'm sure I can do it". And so in the walking meditation, I started bringing in some of those pieces. So when you start bringing in the pieces as if it already happened, especially the science behind meditation, it actually does. Have you heard the piano player thing? They had a study where: Some people actually play the piano in a certain number of hours per day for a specific song. Another one just did the finger exercises with no piano. And then the other ones meditated on it. So the people would actually meditate on it. They never touched the piano, and they actually were just as good as the other people. Natalie: When they finally went to play the piano? Jaime: Yes which is insane. Natalie: I've heard a few studies around stuff just re-visioning exercise on that. Jaime: Yes. It gets your body in certain state. It's really interesting to see the studies because we are placebos by the way, right? So we affect our thoughts and everything affects everything. And I think entrepreneurs need to get this better and better and better. It's not just clearing your brain it's all those thoughts that we think, that determine what we actually take action on, what we actually do. All those beliefs or whatever you want to say whether they are subconscious or not. When you start flushing those out, and you start imagining yourself..... I've had a friend who hated speaking and then he did like a hundred different speaking gigs all in a row just to get over the fear and to get really good at it. Well, you do a 100 of them and you'll get really good at it! Imagine meditating on it a hundred days in a row instead of actually having to go do it. And again there might be a little bit of twinge when you do the first one but it's going to feel so much more natural even just the visualization of it. And I've interviewed a ton of millionaires, 400 and something millionaires, so many of them bring up visioning, it's insane. I was not woo-woo at all and I started going down this road and interviewing millionaires and I'm like, "How come everybody keeps talking about this?". Because I really wanted to know and so then I started looking at the science behind it all. And then I'm like, "There's something to this", because I am a sciency kind of gal and then I've started implementing and doing it. It has literally changed so many things and what I can see is possible moving forward. Natalie: You mentioned that it's helped you, one being all grounded and not even noticed that visibly in you. You said your skin is glowing. You think you looked younger like not aging. What are some of the other benefits? Jaime: There's a whole thing on epigenetics which if you read any of Joe's books. Sleep Smarter by Shawn Stevenson talks about epigenetics - our bodies and what we feel basically. Because this is the thing, I don't think people really understand, and again the science is very very new behind all this. It hasn't really come out to the general population. If I say epigenetics, people are more like, "I don't have a clue what that is". But your DNA actually can turn on and off based on your environment. And so it's not all like you were born like this and now we are like that forever, it's what you ingest, what you are doing, what you are thinking that all affects your body, which makes logical sense when you think about it. We are not emotionless robots. All the pieces and parts really make a difference. You've seen the president go from looking really really young beforehand and how the heck did he age so much in such a short period of time? Like the stress and everything. And so it really affects your body. So you can do it in the opposite direction also. How can we change that? Natalie: I was telling you about Josh's friend Rohan, his father from England who's been doing transcendental meditation for something like forty five years or more. I haven't met him and I really want to meet him. I told you that right? Because he is late 70s and he looks like he is in his 40s. He gets up at five a.m every morning. He does one to two hours of transcendental meditation with the music and all the vibrations and everything. And he is apparently just super focused and onto it. He doesn't need much sleep. Just incredibly aware and has energy all day and that youth, that vitality and that absolute solidness around what he does and who he is. He's absolutely precise and clear on who he is and what energy he gives off. So that fascinates me. It does make me feel, yes you could change your state and you can change your entire DNA makeup. By the way, did you know that when you get sunburnt you are changing the DNA? There's a whole science behind it which you'd love. When you get sunburnt, your cells are exploding and we have billions of cells right, but they are exploding and each little explosion is shifting and changing your DNA. So overtime you can actually change your DNA of your body. Jaime: Good way or bad way? Natalie: I don't think sunburn is obviously good for you at all, but it's just more the point that scientists have seen that you are actually changing your DNA through that. So there must be other ways of changing your DNA. Jaime: When you look up epigenetics and you'll see some of those pieces because it's insane to read some of the studies on this. I didn't realize this. I'm like, "Man!". It is one of those things where it's such a new science so it seems a little woo-woo to people. It is with any sort of newer science. Natalie: I know scientists needs the data and the facts but also I just want to see it's working. Jaime: This is what I do, I'm like, "Well I'll test it and If I like it, I'll keep doing it and if I don't like it, then I won't." But there's a lot of Charletons that are like, "Oh you do this thing and it's amazing!". So that's what we have to be careful of, but to me I'll test anything and if I like it and I see results then I'll continue. I care about the smarts and logic. And so meditation has allowed me to tap in way more and not just be a 'running around like trying to do everything head wise', but actually tapping into all parts of your body. I never thought that your gut or intuition was a big deal until, again I heard so many millionaires going, "I went with my gut" and I'm like, "Wait! There's no real science behind that." I'll put a spreadsheet together so I can look at all the facts, this is why I am so science based because I need something to make a decision. I would almost never go with my gut. Natalie: Gut every time. Jaime: See... but to me I didn't get the point of gut. I thought that that wasn't logic. When you read like the book, Blank and we realize how amazing we are as human beings. We can make an assessment on something without even necessarily knowing the facts and data. Like that book was very eye opening to me because I was like, "Oh, maybe I do know more than logic will tell me and research and data." And so realizing that, along with everything else tapping into that. You can shut yourself off big time. Most people do. Most of the clients that I talk to I ask "What's your gut saying?" They are like "I don't know." Natalie: Oh really? I do it all the time. The only time that I haven't sometimes is travelling, because I listen to my gut and instinct all the time in travelling. "Don't go down there" or actually "Don't take that bus". Jaime: What does that feel like? Where? How do you do that? Natalie: Literally like a strong sensation to not go ahead and buy that ticket. Where? It's a good point. You do actually feel it in your stomach and then I feel like it just triggers straight away to your brain with a no. I have voice in my head going, "That's not a wise idea." It's really crazy and I just listen to it all the time. Jaime: I had heard this one place, and I have not verified sources but, what's interesting is they were saying that it's actually your heart that is making a lot of these decisions, and then going to either your stomach and then your brain and so it triggers all of them right? We sometimes think it's our brain first. Natalie: It's literally like a decision and sometimes your body will stop. Sometimes your body will stop walking like 'you are not going to go down there, Natalie'. It's the fight-or-flight response that I feel kicks in and that is triggered by your immune system and/or your nervous system, so I guess your heart is the thing that's beating. Jaime: We just don't know very much about our bodies though. Like it's kind of sad. I am trying to teach my children like, "Okay. Where do you feel that in your body?" so that they can become more in tune because I never was. I was like, what is that feeling? I would never go with my gut in general. So knowing and being able to say, "This actually works." I needed all the data from all the millionaires like, "Wait, you've went with your gut and that worked? Wow! Interesting." It would be really interesting to ask which ones typically go with their gut and which ones don't. Natalie: And where do you feel that in your body - that's an interesting question to ask anybody. Going on a bit of tangent here but asking 'how do you feel' and see what people's responses are, because if you ask a very pragmatic logic based person, they will go, "I am blah blah blah." Jaime: Okay so this is my best friend, she had to ask me every single day. She goes, "How do you feel?" and I'd say, "Good" and she'd go, "Good is not a feeling." "Great! I feel great!", she said, "That's not a feeling." I didn't have the words to express it. I literally had one of those little cards that said all the emotions on it. But I couldn't find the nuances between the emotions because I didn't think it was a big deal. Like what does it matter? Natalie: And it does matter. Jaime: It totally does now I know. I am teaching my children this. So tapping into intuition or tapping into your gut is an example. I don't know what that felt like. I was like, "Huh! Nope. I got nothing." The little nuances in anxiety or the little nuances in joy, the little nuances in things that I just never paid attention to. And yet we can be so much more expressive as human beings if you actually know that. I had beforehand thought, "If I just negate all the bad emotions and only felt the good ones, I'll be happy in my world". I mean you know in entrepreneurship too, it doesn't work that way. Shit happens. Natalie: It's a rollercoaster. Jaime: Exactly. You have to mitigate all of it and sometimes the crappy stuff is teaching you the most and you have to be okay with those emotions because if you try and negate that you won't take the risks, even calculated risks. You just won't make the steps towards that because you are so scared of negative emotions. It's an interesting thing. Natalie: I think a lot of people live in the state of, "I'm okay. I'm okay. So I am not going to show any emotions." And you asking me the other day, "Do you feel that you tapped into that? Are you emotional?" I have my moments around my Dad because I was quite surprised that I wasn't more upset or just really in that state, but I do think it's because I focused on celebrating his life. It doesn't mean I think I shut down my feelings. Like I will have my moments where I'll just cry. As I told you I am big soak in movies. I'll just have waterworks in movies. I feel like a lot around animals and nature. I don't worry so much or sweat the small stuff but I often think about global issues or environment or inhumane treatment of animals or people. And that stuff gets me really emotional but I think there are so many people who are walking through life they are taking the drugs and numbing them. Jaime: But that's the point right? The placebo, the book is all about, you don't need to rely on what we think. One of the reasons why we take a placebo and think it will work is because people have told us that it will work. If a doctor someone of high authority goes, "This will work for you." Even if it numbs you like crazy, you are like, "Oh then half of it's probably the placebo effect and the pills don't even work." So it's one of those things where us knowing ourselves better. If you are the type, "I am emotional in these sort of ways and I don't need to like make myself be emotional in other ways either", but knowing yourself better makes a huge difference. So if you do get sick or whatever, trying to pay attention to what those emotions were within it and then solving that instead of going after like, "I just need more alcohol" or "I need more drugs". Like when I injured my neck they gave me Hydrocodone and I'm like, "That's a lot!". It's a narcotic. They gave me a lot of pills. I was kind of surprised. They gave me like three sets of pills. Natalie: The United States scares me with what they give out. It's such a pill based society. Jaime: And I was like, "So how do I fix it though?". It's one thing to numb the pain and I am okay with pain I can handle a lot of pain but how do I fix it? Nobody really went down that path which sucks. Natalie: It does. Western medicine is very much like immediate solution where as I love the Eastern philosophy around preventing it before it's even happened. Jaime: Yes but the thing is I agree a thousand percent but because we've already gone past the point. So again this is western world but we are sold that we can have everything right now and this is why meditation is so important too. Because we are moving at a constant pace especially entrepreneurs. We are problem solvers and we wanted the problem solved yesterday not today. And so a pill, sure! Faster, easier, more efficient. Natalie: The headache was just from the hours of pampering and all the detox. And when I was in that yoga class, that restorative yoga which I loved and I was having trouble with the hamstring pose and it was really like sinking in. Sinking into that pose and feeling the pain and I wanted to come out of it because we had to hold it for five minutes. And that's when she said, "If you are challenged by this pose, you probably have issues with control, because the control that you put into your everyday life will manifest itself into your basically your hamstring." So the tightening there is the constant control or tension. And I think in intrinsically you know that but whatever we are holding any source of tension or pain or even love manifests itself in your body. Jaime: So that's the whole point of Joe Dispenza, the whole point completely. He was a doctor and he actually cut his spinal cord. It was like crazy he couldn't walk and he didn't want to have surgery. And all the doctors are like, "So you kind to have surgery to fix this", and he was, "I am not going to do it." He meditated. And people were like, "Okay, you meditated your spinal healing. That's a little insane." Natalie: Have he done meditation before? Jaime: I don't remember. I think he must have done something. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be like, "Oh I am going to try meditation and see if this works." He was a chiropractor so he knew the body really really well but what is interesting like you were saying is being able to have whatever is existing in our body usually is for a reason. And unfortunately because we are problem solvers and we want to fix this so fast we just take the pill and go, "That will be okay." But more and more instances of cancer, more and more instances of crazy stuff and we are going, "What's wrong?". Well yeah it's probably food and stuff like that too but there's so many things that we don't understand that us taking care of ourselves, like you said the eastern side of things could have probably prevented but now we are at this tipping point where we can't see the force for the trees anymore. And so that's why it's great that he wrote the book called, You Are the Placebo because there's literally everybody going, "I have a problem. I need a solution." And so being able to show people, "Oh by the way, this could help this." Natalie: I was going to say it sounds of ironic but I am about to say we have to take control or more importantly, we have to take responsibility because things are not going to get better. We are going to have more and more technology. We'd be more and more connected. We are going to have more and more devices. We are going to have more multi-tasking. We are going to have more and more things in our life that are causing us to live lives in totally different way where we don't have peace, quiet, nature, reflection, timeout, thinking time, quiet time. And so we just have to and that's why I am so proud of you because you are making time because you love it every morning to do your meditation. Jaime: One I didn't love it. I couldn't sit for five minutes. I used to lay down because I couldn't sit up. So I couldn't sit up for that long and I hated the five minutes every single time. It's just very much an evolutionary process. That being said I learned my own process. A lot of clients are resistant because they are entrepreneurs and logical and my brain is way too crazy, "I can't do it Jaime". I was like, "I have the same crazy brain you do. I have ADD literally". And so when we are looking at, "Okay what can you do as a first step?" We talked about five minutes of headspace. Headspace is great, Calm app is great, just to sort of slowly get into that and then I have people come back and they are like, "Oh that felt a little better." And then what is that next step and what is that next step, I did this as part of the evolutionary process it to try to make meditation efficient. I would get all the crap out of my head so that way I could feel like i could be more clear. David Allen's Getting Things Done, getting everything out of your head. So I would do that piece along with having this inspired thoughts of, "Oh you know what I should do and this". Natalie: You'd actually literally go sit down or lie down to meditate but then you'd have bing bing bing thoughts. So you'd actually then stop the meditation? Jaime: I wouldn't actually stop the meditation. It's really kind of funny I had a eye pillow on and I'd literally have a journal right next to me and I'd scribble. It's just like a twenty, thirty minute meditation, it wasn't a lot because I would only do the first piece like this. I would literally just go, "Oh!" and write those. Changes of launch plans or the ideas that I have. And then I would be able to clear and be a lot better. So it's still guided meditation but this is what I have my clients do because in general they are like," I can't make it stop." You know what makes it stop? Write all that crap down. And because David Allen talks about with getting things done, if it's still on your head it will keep reminding it. It will keep bringing it up. So there you have it. This topic of Personal Freedom here on the Quest for Freedom Podcast continues to come back to freedom of the mind in so many respects. I know I will continue to delve deeper into this. In the next episode I'll be discussing personal freedom from a place of less stuff weighing you down - as in decluttering. Tune in for that one. And read the full show notes for this episode at nataliesisson.com/7 You can also sign up to get fresh, hip and timely email updates when I release a new episode. Or you can simply subscribe in iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud or Google Play and make my day - and hopefully make yours.   See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Do you ever wonder how successful entrepreneurs streamline their businesses? In this wonderful interview, Natalie Sisson shares with us her magic formula for creating freedom and success through streamlining everything about her business. It takes most entrepreneurs a long time to get this right, if they ever get it and Natalie openly admits, took her awhile to figure out, too.  Save yourself time and frustration – join us for some great business advice: -Top 3 Stages For Building A “Freedom Lifestyle” Business- How One Entrepreneur Can Live Out Of A Suitcase And Still Be Successful - Natalie’s Magic Formula For Success - Timeless Business Advice From An Entrepreneur Who’s “Been There” - How To Leave Your Legacy Intact   Natalie Sisson is No #1 bestselling author, podcaster, speaker and adventurer who believes everybody has the right to choose freedom in business and adventure in life. Shes on a mission to ensure 100,000+ entrepreneurs do just that by 2020 over at the SuitcaseEntrepreneur.com Born in New Zealand Natalies built her multiple six figure business from her laptop over the last 5 years while living out of her suitcase, traveling to 70 countries and showing others how to build a profitable online freedom business that supports their ideal lifestyle through her definitive Freedom Plan program. A Mission Of Freedom And Adventure… Natalie is on a mission. Her mission is to ensure that 1,00000+ entrepreneurs will have their well-deserved freedom with their businesses and an adventure in their life by Year 2020.She provides some terrific resources at suitcaseentrepreneur.com. Natalie's Magic Formula For Success Do you ever wonder how successful entrepreneurs streamline their business? In this interview Natalie shares with us the magic formula for creating freedom and success, which she admits, took her awhile to figure out. What is that magic formula? The answer isn’t as simple as just one thing BUT if there was one very important element that stands above all others, it is  DISCIPLINE. She tells us that the more disciplined you are around your team, the more disciplined and organized your team is. Just watch.  As you become more disciplined, you’ll see your team change in the way they take care of your business. Natalie’s “Sexy Operating Procedures” Natalie further said, because she and her team work with discipline and strictly follow her protocol (named “The Sexy Operating Procedures”) she can take as much time off as she wants (within reason) and still be confident that her business will still make money. Even without her being physically there, her business still operates just fine.   If You’ve Ever Wondered How To Do It, Then Just Ask Some One Who Already Has... Natalie has found what she absolutely loves.  She is able to travel around the world, taking on new coaching clients and leisurely write new blog entries... all because of her supreme confidence in having built a tremendous business. Success Isn’t Always Easy Knowing she wanted an awesome lifestyle, Natalie committed herself with incredible discipline, to building her community, portfolio of products & programs. Natalie’s Timeless Business Advice Her one piece of advice, live and breath what you preach. If you focus and discipline yourself into just one thing that you truly love, the rewards will be wonderful.  Don’t forget to put a lot of effort and fun into it. Make sure you make an effort to build a business around people who  appreciate what you offer, your work and share the same vision. Find people who want to have the same adventure and share the same definition of freedom as you do.   Why Would YOU Want To Live A Suitcase Life Natalie describes herself as an entrepreneur who is Rich and Homeless. She is living a “suitcase life”. Natalie does indeed own a house and she doesn’t care about what other people think of, her property and belongings. All Natalie cares about is that her place is enjoyable, where her guests can feel comfortable  and welcome. She believes that material things really don’t matter. Even if you have the fanciest car, the most incredible sofa, the most amazing artwork hanging on your wall, none of this stuff matters. How To Leave Your Legacy Intact Natalie shares with us, that there is so much more beyond having possessions. Let’s just say that you were to leave this planet tomorrow. Nobody will remember you for the car or the expensive artwork that you had.  You have to aim and hope that people will remember you for the legacy that you’ve left through the amazing work you’ve done and from the people, whose lives you’ve touched. That is much more important than material things. Invest in experiences and in memories that can never be taken away. In the end, those things are really your priceless possessions...and no amount of money can buy them. Three Stages Of Building A Freedom Lifestyle Business Natalie quickly turned her attention to building an online business that helps others escape the confines of an office, work remotely, still be productive and earn good money. Below, Natalie shares with us her time-tested, three stages of building a “Freedom Lifestyle” for any business. The Freedom Mindset -  This is the stage that is the hardest for people to really understand. It’s the freedom mindset. She explains that once you have a business or a career that affords you to have a little bit of more flexibility, a lot of people start to struggle. Their mindset changes to “I don’t necessarily have to work a normal working week nine to five”, “I can take more time off”, “I can take a mid week weekend”, “I don’t have to be based in an office”. “I don’t need to have clients that are in the same location as mine”.Despite the flexibility, you should not lose your vision and still be clear about it. Having great friends and family who keep you reminded about your vision is also a good idea and will also help you stay on track. The Financial Freedom - The second stage “Financial Freedom” which really comes down to how we setup our business or career. Do you have enough revenue and income to afford a great lifestyle, that will not tie you down at the same time?Natalie’s goal for financial freedom is having a revenue stream or a stable cash flow that will allow flexibility in whatever you’re doing and lets you be involved either actively or passively in your business. These are the nuts and bolts of building an online business.If you want Financial freedom in your business, you should carefully consider your business model.  As an example, what are your plans for social media, sales strategies, sales funnels and outsourcing?  What are the systems you’ll used to create your business? The Lifestyle Freedom - And the final part is lifestyle freedom. This is asking yourself, “What sort of a lifestyle do I want?” “How am I going to live it?”, “How often do I want to travel, how much time do I want to spend at home?”, “How will I travel?”, “how do I pack lightly?”. It’s really thinking about minimalism and how do you get rid of unnecessary possessions that are weighing you down to be more free. Natalie Talks About The Transparency Of Living A Suitcase Life While she says that she “really enjoys the constant change” her travel brings, it also gives her a few downsides. For instance, it can often be difficult for her to forge long-lasting, meaningful relationships with people. Structuring days can also pose a challenge for her. She hoped that her businesses will get over the fact that she doesn’t need to be present to reach out and connect with people and still add value. As a result of this, she plans on slowing things down. Natalie is looking forward to spending a little longer in the places she visits. She looks forward to finding somebody who’s up for an adventure to share and for moving around as well. The Ultimate Goal Natalie hopes that more people will be able to live her way in the future. She wants more entrepreneurs to build and design their businesses based on what they love doing and around their lifestyle needs. She hoped also that everyone will aim on having a lifestyle business that will give all the freedom to take a time off at any time.  This means especially for that time you might need to drop everything to take care of yourself, relationships and family. In that circumstance, she wants you to still have the confidence that your business will be stable and will still generate income even when you’re not around. [content_toggle style="1" label="Please%20Click%20Here%20to%20View%20the%20Entire%20Transcript%20of%20the%20Show" hide_label="Hide"] Natalie: Hi. I’m Natalie Sisson, the suitcase entrepreneur and I once was almost arrested in Sydney airport for being a little bit silly with one of the security officers and telling him that he wouldn’t find explosives in my suitcase. That he’d actually in fact find them strapped to my chest. I thought it was really funny at the time. He didn’t think it was funny at all. If I’d been in America I probably would’ve been arrested. Not my smartest move on my travels. Woman: In business and know the way forward most include social media. Perhaps you find it a bit confusing. Even frustrating. Well, you have no idea how to make it work for your business. Fear not. We interview some of the best social media experts in business who will share their experiences, ideas and knowledge. Plus offer tips and tricks to make using social media a breeze. Leverage the power of social media and grow your business now. Welcome to social media business hour with your host Nile Nickel. Jordan: Hello and thank you again for joining us. This is Nile’s trusty sidekick and co-host Jordan and I’d like to take a moment to share with you how you can benefit from Nile’s incredible experience using social media for real business success. If you’re an entrepreneur or thinking about starting your own business then using social media might be the most cost effective and time effective way to get your business real results. That’s not to mention much of what you can do to get those terrific results on social media is even free. Take Linked In for example. Nile always says it’s the best social media platform for business today. And that’s why I recommend you go to linkedinfocus.com and start your social media education today. Sign up for Nile’s free tips, tricks and strategies. Once again, it’s free and it only takes a few seconds. Go to linkedinfocus.com today. You’ll be glad you did. Nile: Hey, welcome back. And after our funny news story there -- obviously you heard the tease at the beginning of the show with Natalie Sisson and by the way with the tease that Natalie gave us at the beginning of the show -- if you take a picture of Natalie I think if I was on the other side of that I would be laughing but let me tell you a little bit about Natalie. Maybe together with her. But Natalie Sisson is a number one bestselling author, podcaster, speaker and adventurer. Definitely an adventurer. Who believes everybody has the right to choose freedom in business and adventure in life. She’s on a mission and I love this mission. In fact, Natalie I’m going to ask you about this as soon as I tell everybody what your mission is. Your mission is to ensure 100000 plus entrepreneurs have freedom in their business and adventure in their life by 2020 over at suitcaseentrepreneur.com how did you come up with that and how do you go about helping people do that? Natalie: Actually I just changed it recently to a million because somebody told me I was playing too small and when I started my business around five years ago that seemed like a pretty big number for me to reach either directly or indirectly through spreading the word in my books and my podcast and my blog and my programs and my retreats and my workshops around the world so now it’s a million people. So I’ve got a lot of work to do. But how I help people doing that is really showing them what’s possible and I think a lot of people are able to build a business that supports their ideal lifestyle. They just have to get really clear on what their ideal lifestyle looks like. And freedom means a lot of different things to a lot of different people and so for me it’s just getting them really clear about if you could wake up tomorrow and do whatever you wanted, spend time with the right people, be in a location that you wanted, what would your life look like and what would you be doing and how would you be spending your time? And it’s a great place for people to start and from there I can then get them to look at how they’re going to monetize themselves, build a business that’s mobile and really make revenue and make enough money to support their lifestyle and have an amazing life. That’s not the specifics of how I help them do it but that’s essentially the overall division of what I’m trying to help them with. Nile: One of the things that I find fascinating is people might detect you have a little bit of a different accent. Natalie: I have a different accent. Awesome accent. Nile: Might even say a southern accent. I think it’s awesome too. Sounds very romantic I might add but that’s just me. But you come from New Zealand and you came up with this big bold thing. You’ve been living it, you’ve been doing it so by the way, this isn't a -- just a vain promise. You’ve been out there doing it. But New Zealand’s a fairly small country, not heavily populated. What brought all this on? I’m just really curious. Natalie: That’s a great question. Well, it is paradise here in New Zealand. I’m actually just back here visiting family and it is a beautiful place but it’s also as I like to say on top of the world so there’s a whole lot more world out there to explore. And ever since I was a kid I’ve been traveling, my parents have been amazing. They’re both from Europe. They took my sister and I on tons of boat travels and so I just have this massive curiosity about the rest of the world and the countries and the cultures that I wanted to explore but what lead me to this point of living out of a suitcase and running a business and teaching other people how to travel the world and create a business that they love is really I think just kind of partly by accident and partly because I really wanted to not be stuck in an office working for other people so when I did finally go out on my own and become an entrepreneur and start my business and run some workshops I took everything that I did online and thought if I can make money from anywhere online from my laptop then I don’t need to be in one place to do it. So that’s what started the adventure and freedom quest. Nile: So you’ve mentioned that your parents took you as a younger adult, a child on a number of trips. Is that where the inspiration really came from? Natalie: I don’t know. I mean, I love that they’ve always encouraged us to travel. But as I said the inspirations probably come from a myriad of things that happen in my life. I recently found a photo of myself in a suitcase when I was a kid. I’m like literally poking out of a suitcase. And if I look back on my university studies, all my corporate jobs that I used to host, the cofounding and technology company, everything’s always been around technology, information management, communications, presenting, magazine style work and travel combined so I really just pulled together marketing, brand management from my corporate jobs, the technology side and social media from the company I cofounded and then my love for being able to teach, learn, teach and learn and just really be able to do that from anywhere. So it was -- like I think an accident or genius really on my behalf to be able to do it and probably a very strong longing from the get go to still be able to incorporate travel into anything that I do. Nile: How many miles would you say that you travel in a given year? Natalie: Oh, I don’t know because I work in kilometers. But a lot. For example, just coming back -- Nile: Well, we could go to kilometers. That’s fine. Natalie: Do you know what? I’ve never really actually taken the time to look at that because probably it would scare me. But just for example coming back to New Zealand I -- it was a 37 hour journey because I had a flight from Lisbon to Dubai. Then I had a nine hour wait in an airport which was actually not as bad as it sounded. Then I had a 13 hour flight to Melbourne, a four hour wait there and then a three and a half hour to New Zealand and I think I was looking and there were at least 10 -- or was it 12 and a half thousand kilometers on one of those legs alone so I’ve taken a lot of trips already this year and more to come so I don’t even know. Probably more like you with your 100000 miles I’m used to do in a year. Nile: Yeah, well, one of the things that I found and I’m going to get a little personal with you if it’s okay. I know that -- I had a family at the time and it was really hard on my family life to do that. I’ve got to believe for family or dating or whatever it may be that’s a pretty difficult thing to do. Have you found that or does it matter? Natalie: Yeah. I mean, obviously if I had family independence which by the way is not something that I do want so that’s the reason that I can't be even more free. I’m sure it would be even more complex or challenging but I’ve actually interviewed and profiled a lot of people in my community. I have lots of customers and clients who have families and they do make it happen. It’s awesome to see how they do it. They go off in RVs around the world and they go off to Guatemala and get their kids involved in nonprofits or working on the land or home schooling so there’s always ways to do what you want even with families. But for me personally I enjoy being single and I enjoy traveling the world. I enjoy having romances on some of my trips but for sure it makes it having a relationship a lot harder and that’s probably my next stage is how do I make that happen and make it more appealing to a person that I meet that oh, look. I’m heading off in a week here. Why don’t you come with me? Or being a bit more stable and sticking around in a few places which is my aim right now is to have a few more bases around the world and actually spend my time in fewer places, more time in the communities that I want to be in getting to know people, developing better relationships with friends and people and settling a little bit more so I think that time is coming up. Nile: Well, that makes sense and I could see that being the next book that will be coming out. Natalie: Maybe. Nile: I mean, I’m planning seeds here. Natalie: Well, I did touch on it in my Suitcase entrepreneur book. I did touch on how to manage relationships with family and friends while you’re traveling and also as a single person or as a couple but I didn’t go deeply into how do you find love on the road because frankly I don’t have the answers for that and I know a lot of people do struggle with it so I think when the times comes you put your mind to what you want to do. You’ll make things happen and you’ll put the effort in priority into that but this -- it is always challenges whether you’re single or married or whatever so it’s really up to you to kind of figure out what you’re wanting out of that. Nile: It absolutely is. One of the things that I have been really fascinated with -- clearly people go to your website which we’ll have in the show notes so we’ll make it easy for everybody but they go to your website, they look at your book, they see any of that. Clearly you’ve had a lot of success in what you’re doing. Now, that requires promotion and branding and all sorts of things like that. That being the case, how have you found the magic formula to do that as you’re on the road all the time? Natalie: The magic formula ironically to have all this freedom is discipline and it took me a while to figure that out. so the more disciplined I am around having assistants and a team and processes and what I call sexy operating procedures but most people call it standard operating procedures has really helped me to streamline my business so that I don’t have to spend much time on it. I can take as much time off as I want within reason. The things will still operate without me that I’ll still make money without it and that’s from all the years and hard work and hustle of building community and building up my portfolio of products and programs and committing everything that I have really to this and living the lifestyle as well. Living and breathing what I preach. So I think it’s taken focus and discipline and now I get to reap the rewards which is wonderful. But I still love what I do so I put a lot of effort into it but it’s fun and it’s wonderful because I built it around what I wanted it to be and I really appreciate getting to help people all the time with choosing their own adventure and their version of freedom. Nile: Well, I could clearly see that. I mean, your book the Suitcase entrepreneur -- if you look on Amazon at that it’s a five star review which isn't easy to get and reading through the comments that people have left I would say the majority of them are positive. Some of them are not so positive. But what I see and what I find about you through this process is through everything it appears that you’re very real, down to earth and transparent. Natalie: Absolutely. 100 percent. And I don’t want to be anything else. That’s funny that you say that about Amazon though because I think the very first one that comes up is a one star review saying living -- selling the dream or something. And the lady is really complementary about me. She’s like I’m sure Natalie would be a great person to hang out with. She seems really fun and cool but can't help but think that she’s selling a dream here and it’s such an interesting thing that you come up against because even just being back in New Zealand so many people look at this and they’re like well, how does somebody do that? How do you run a business from a laptop? How do you make really, really great money and be able to make an impact by selling how to make a business or how to run a business, how to live this lifestyle. So I get it. And it’s something that people have really taken a while to _____22:39 onto. How do you become a digital nomad. Use software and tools and technology and outsourcing to run any type of business actually from the road. And I think the biggest thing that’s been my success as you’ve mentioned Nile is just being really open and transparent about everything. My screw ups, my failures, the good times, the bad times. I recently ran a webinar and I totally forgot to plug in the Wi-Fi router and I was right at that critical moment of talking about my program that people could join and it cut out and I was like oh my god. This is ridiculous. And I just laughed out loud and then I shared it in a podcast. Like how not to run a webinar or how to -- things to avoid based on what I just did and people really appreciate that. It’s not all perfect. I don’t think there is this magic formula, I don’t try and put on a front and I think people appreciate that it’s just real and you show them the good, the bad and the ugly of being an entrepreneur and traveling the world. Nile: Now, so the next thing that I’m really curious about and I’m going to come back to the social media and the promotion and all of that in a bit but you mentioned a 100000 people that you really want to -- if you will transform their lives. And that wasn’t big enough. Now that it’s a million how are you going about that and how are people enrolling in this process because I assume that that’s where they say yeah. That’s what I want. How do I get it? So tell me a little bit about that. Natalie: Yeah. It’s a great question. Well, what’s coming out this year that I’ve been really excited about is social enterprise that I’ve been considering in my head for way to long which is why I need to take action and it’s still based around freedom. It’s called the Right to freedom and to answer your question I feel that’s the movement, that’s the initiative that’s going to spike hopefully up to a million people to join. So it’s still very much based on my Suitcase entrepreneur business and what I’ve been doing there but I’ve always had this long held belief that underneath the soul there’s a greater desire for me to understand what freedom really is because in the US it’s completely different to other parts of the world and I’m just fascinated by it now and I still see people getting blocked in my community that I’m working with and I think it’s because we have this real disparate idea around can I have an amazing lifestyle and a really successful career or business, family and all the freedom that I want or is that being too greedy, is it even possible and so Right to freedom is this movement that I’m going to be beginning actually later this month to start working on social enterprise and the first hopefully global study on freedom and from there I’m going to be expanding out into a whole bunch of things. Hopefully a documentary and a book and a whole assessment type profile where people can understand and learn more about how they can have more freedom. So that to me is the -- what I’ve been working to for the last five years with my business has gotten me this place where I’m like great. Now I can work on an even bigger initiative with a nonprofit aspect that has a huge amount of potential to be one of the most scary but exciting things I’ve embarked on but also make a huge impact on the world. So that’s why I’ve stepped it up to a million people this year because I finally feel I’m ready for the next five to seven years to go on this journey. Nile: One of the things I’m interested in is -- and the US is sort of a unique place if people haven’t traveled outside the US. The majority of my listeners are US based but that’s not true of all of the listeners. We’ve got people listening all throughout Europe and Asia and so on and so forth. But that being the case, you mentioned the difference in the US and how sometimes their idea of their right to freedom or that freedom view that they have is different. Talk to me a bit about that. Natalie: Oh, sure. I mean, I’m probably insulting people right now because I have a lot of American friends and I love them and I love visiting and being in America but it always blows my mind that people there are like having to be busy and working all the time and if they’re not seen to be doing that then something’s wrong. Like having time off, taking time out, enjoying half a day off from your business seems like you’re not doing the right thing or that something’s going wrong if that’s what you’re doing. And there’s a huge inherent nature there to be just hustling all the time, to be ambitious, to be making money, to be working as hard as you can, to be setting up that American dream and I think you’ve got it all wrong. Completely the wrong way around. And what you end up doing is working so hard to earn as much money as you can to buy things and more things and more materials that you don’t need that ultimately make you unhappy and you see so many people over there who’ve done really well for themselves, super wealthy and they’re miserable. So I’m not saying that’s indicative of all of the US but there is this -- very much this nature there that you have to push hard, work all the time and everything is a priority and a commitment in that respect and I’m like why are you doing all this work and why are you working so hard when your life is sitting there waiting for you to live it and go on adventures and really enjoy it and spread happiness and cherish every single moment and live like there is no tomorrow. Nile: That’s an interesting observation. We’ve got the phrase in the States and you’ve probably heard it as much as you’ve been here. Keeping up with the Joneses. Do you think what you observe with a  lot of people in the US is a bit of that keeping up with the Joneses syndrome? Natalie: Yeah. And I don’t think it’s just limited to the US but for sure it’s there. I mean, you see it in other cultures as well. And I get it but I just don’t agree with it. Like I mean, here’s a person speaking -- it’s easy for me to say. I live out of a suitcase but if I eventually buy and live in a house I frankly don’t care what other people think of my house, of the goods and the things that I have inside it. I want it to be my place, I want to enjoy it, I want people to feel comfortable and welcome there. It’s not about that I have the fanciest car or the most incredible sofa or the most amazing artwork on the walls. None of that stuff matters. If you were to leave this planet tomorrow nobody is going to remember you for the car that you had or the artwork that you had. I hope. I hope they’re going to remember you for the legacy that you’ve left through the work you’ve done or the people’s lives that you’ve touched. So all of that stuff just seems so unimportant in the scheme of things. Nile: I’m curious because I think in my own life apart from my family there are very few material possessions that I really, really enjoy and most of them are relatively small. I'm curious if you have any of those material possessions that find their way in the suitcase and travel around with you. Natalie: Short answer is no. Nile: Okay. Natalie: I mean, obviously if I lost my new Macbook tomorrow or my iPhone six I’d be a little bit frustrated but it’s -- all of it is replaceable. And even to the point that my mom bought me a beautiful ring for Christmas, the Christmas we just had and I love it and it’s the only thing that I wear every single day but even if I lost that it’s -- I’ve still got the memory. It’s more important that mom’s here than the ring that she gave me so I would say there’s pretty much nothing. Sometimes when I get a bit sick of my suitcase I’m kind of excited that if it got lost by the airlines because I’d have to go out and buy something new and refresh my wardrobe and start it fresh and just keep it interesting. Nile: Well, there you go. Well, no. I think of that. As I said, there’s very few things. I have for example a silver dollar money clip and that’s what I carry every -- the physical currency that I carry around is in that money clip. But I’ve now had that money clip probably for 25 years and is it materially worth a whole lot? No. it’s just worth something to me. But I -- little things like that that I enjoy. I was curious if you had any of those little things like that. you mentioned the ring but that’s interesting because it’s really -- if you get down to it and there’s a big fire or a big flood and you’re going to lose everything or virtually everything other than what you can carry in the palm of your hand; I always like to ask people what would that be because it really sort of defines a lot of things about you. Natalie: It does. And you know what? the things that nobody can ever take away from you or be lost is memories, experiences and the people and the relationships that you have so that’s the most valuable thing in my life right now and the reason I’m even back home in New Zealand right now is my dad was in the hospital and it was incredible to just see how I dropped everything. I finally had plans to stay in Portugal for a few months which is quite a long time for me and I was really loving it. I’d actually bought a scooter for the first time, I was doing Portuguese lessons. I was actually trying to integrate into society a little and enjoying it and I just dropped everything to come back here because family, friends are just so much more important than anything else that you could ever own. So experiences as I said and memories that can never be taken away from you and they’re worth millions of dollars in my mind. Nile: Yeah. No. I would agree with you. Other than the fact that I’m getting a little bit older and some of those memories fade. I’m not sure you can -- Natalie: Yeah. That’s true. You need to write a book maybe. You need to write a book. Nile: Yeah. That might be it. I’ll have to read it to remind myself. That’s all. Natalie: Yeah. Nile: Well, again, I want to go back to the promotion and I want to go back to the promotion because when -- you typically promote to a community and you typically build that community from people that you know, like and trust or people that know, like and trust you. so as you’re traveling around the world obviously you’re meeting a lot of people but that marketing gets to be challenging and I think you have an interesting take on it which is I guess why I wanted to get there. It’s certainly not what I want people to focus on with the interview with Natalie here but I think you’ve got some interesting takes on it so what -- how do people get to know you? Natalie: That’s a great question. I mean, I think you touched on it earlier. It was a really lovely compliment. I’m pretty open, I’m very transparent and recently I was in Berlin and I held a meet up there with my community and one of the guys from Netherlands said oh, you’re just like you sound like on your podcast and you look like in your videos and you’re just you. And he’s like we thought you’d look like a celebrity when you walk in and we’re all -- but no. but you came straight over and talked to us. And I was like well, what did  you expect me to do? So I think people get to know the real me if they ask the right questions for sure. As you said, I meet people all the time every single day and it can be overwhelming to remember every single person you’ve met but some people you just really connect with and those ones that usually share a curiosity and love for life. They ask intelligent, smart questions. You have discussions over all sorts of topics and from there you forge friendships and you actually make an effort to keep in touch and I’ve met up with several people around the world in two or three different countries. It’s kind of becoming a theme with some of my good friends is to see how many places we can meet up with around the world and share more experiences and good times so people just have to ask and get in touch. Nile: Well, one of the things I guess I was going on was you do an awful lot of your business on social media and social media I think has become a little bit of cornerstone in your business. But it’s social at the same time. So I -- at least from what I could see a lot of people that get to know you and a lot of your marketing for that matter is social media based. Natalie: Absolutely. Yeah. Precisely. So I’m anywhere and everywhere on social media because I love it and it’s how I built my business so very, very important and has allowed me to just have my unique voice and be who I am and people really connect that way. I think they feel they can reach out on Twitter, through Facebook messages and Periscope which I’ve started using and through my blog and podcast and all of it has just helped to build an engaged audience and community of -- I call freedom fighters who get what journey I’m on and want to be on a similar journey but on their own unique path. Nile: Do you find that there are people that engage with you and you mentioned that engagement. That’s one of the things that we talk about quite a bit because you could do a lot of things and a lot of big marketing programs that people do but unless you engage it just doesn’t matter. But do you find that there are a lot of people that engage with you and that initial part of the engagement is following you to really build their belief that this could really be done? I mean, are they -- do they question that can she really do this and this is the way she lives her life and they follow you and find out that maybe it is? Natalie: I think that people have told me a lot in the past that they live through me vicariously until they can take their own leap of faith and build their own freedom plan. So yeah. I think that’s a huge part of it and why I like to live and breathe my brand and I do show it. I mean, obviously it is possible. There are some people who may be cut out to be entrepreneurs perfectly but it doesn’t mean that they can live the lifestyle that has more freedom or they couldn’t incorporate more of those things into their daily life so I love to -- I’m all about taking action and showing what’s practical and implementing so people who like that and actually want to get something done, not just talk about it generally are the type of people who -- I'm in their lives and they're in mine if that makes any sense. And you do start to attract a certain kind of person. I’ve seen that with big brands online how often men will attract men of a similar age or women will attract women who were into that particular topic or thing that they’re talking about. So I’m pretty sure I attract some weird ass awesome people who want to achieve all sorts of different things and travel the world or even just stay at home but experience more adventure. Yeah. Nile: Before I transition to sort of the heavy question I have to ask one of the light questions. Whenever you travel a lot you come up with some different strange stories. And you and I were talking a little bit before the interview about some of the strange stories and you said well, so many things happen to me I don’t even know where to go. And I have to give you an example because -- and just like me I’m sure that you have hundreds if not thousands of these stories but I got stuck in an airport and they gave us meal vouchers. Not an uncommon thing. And so the only thing that was open was a little sundry shop and you could go in and get cookies, crackers, potato chips and drinks or whatever. That was going to be dinner so I went in and I got a box of cookies and I knew that I didn’t need the whole box of cookies and if anybody looks at my social media profile you’ll know I didn’t need the box of cookies either but nevertheless I got a box of cookies and something to drink and I was reading the paper and I opened up -- reach in my bag and I open up the box of cookies and I pull out a cookie and I have one and there’s a little boy playing there and he’s probably four or five years old. And he comes over and he reaches in and gets one of the cookies and I go well, that’s sort of interesting. He didn’t ask or anything and his mom just looks up and smiles at me and so at this point in time I’m reaching in and getting a cookie and he’s reaching in and getting a cookie. And we go on like this until the last cookie of the box comes out. And I pull out that last cookie and his bottom lip comes out and starts that quiver. And I’m going what? I’m just eating my cookies here. And his mom doesn’t say one word to me. She reaches over and she takes the cookie from me and she breaks it in two and she gives him half and me half. And I’m going wow. I’m a little bit blown away by this but I really don’t need the whole box of cookies but I was just looking at it from -- there was no discussion and it was my box of cookies and all of that. And so we get ready to load the plane finally and we get on the plane and I go in and sit down and I open up my briefcase and in my briefcase was my box of cookies. And so I realize I’d been eating his box of cookies the whole time. Gives you a little bit of a paradigm shift there. I reached across the aisle and the mom and the kid were there and I gave her my box of cookies back -- or my box of cookies and we just both laughed because both of us were like well, this is interesting. But that’s just -- hey, I’ve got hundreds of stories like that. But I bet you’ve got even more. So I’m going to put you on the spot. I need some of your stories. Natalie: Well, I’d say -- I mean, I’ve got some pretty funny ones. I tend not to attract too much drama into my life so I’m sure what other people would tell a tantalizing tale about -- I just kind of take in my stripe but probably one of the most significant and it was pretty scary at the time and ridiculous afterwards. In Vietnam a year and a half ago and I’d actually just been -- I’d won over the role of being an editor for a book for startups in Asia and I’ve been editing this book about Vietnam for entrepreneurs so I’ve been learning tons about the culture and the way in which they do business but also the safety of the country, the communication, the political setup and I remember writing about this particular area of Ho Chi Minh City where you shouldn’t really stand as a tourist and it’s notorious for theft and you have to be careful and you should catch taxis and I’ve just come back on a six and a half hour bus ride from Mui Ne. I’ve been on the coast and I’ve been enjoying some beach time and relaxation and a digital sabbatical. Time offline. And I got back into the capital and got off the bus and I knew that my hotel was only a five minute walk away because I’ve been there before and the taxi driver’s like you want a life? And I was like no. no, I’m good. I’m going to walk because I’ve just been on a bus for six and a half hours and I’m walking along with my suitcase in my hand. Obviously rolling it along. And I had my laptop bag with every single thing in it tied around the handle of the suitcase and I’m looking at my phone which I’m holding pretty firmly in my hand but I’m looking at the map to go yeah. I think it’s this way and not that way. And out of nowhere comes this scooter like a sort of a very, very quiet scooter motorbike, two guys on it and then they suddenly speed up and I’m like totally off in my own world. I’m tired and I’m jetlagged and I’m looking at this phone. And they just came by and they grabbed my laptop strap out of my -- like off my shoulder. And just sped on and I just remember spinning around and shouting out no and watching my entire life like speed off down this street and I started running after -- I wouldn’t have had any chance in hell of catching them but all I could see was my purple suitcase and my laptop bag and everything just gone and I start running towards them like yelling going darn you. And they dropped it. they dropped the whole thing because what had happened as I -- one thing that I did as a safety move was I attached as I said my laptop loosely, the strap around the suitcase handle and so by grabbing a laptop bags that also hooked to my suitcase and it was just too heavy and they couldn’t get away with it. So then some respects I was -- I just stood there and went oh my god. My suitcase just saved my life because I had my passport in there, all my money, my hard drive, my computer, everything. I hadn’t even split anything out onto myself. Normally I will hide like another card somewhere else or I just won't have everything in one place and also it was the only time that I put a jumper in my laptop bag. I don’t know why. Sort of a jacket which padded the fall when it fell down so my laptop didn’t smash. Nothing got broken. It was incredible. And I just remember standing there going you are an idiot. Like you wrote about this in a book and here you are standing in the exact place. I’d even crossed over the road to be on the quiet side so there wasn’t anybody around for once which is pretty not common in Vietnam and yeah. It was incredible. So that was my story that I got everything back and I felt ridiculously lucky and fortunate to have all my stuff back and be alive. Nile: Well, it’s always interesting when we get those reminders like that too. Now, you teased everybody with a story about coming back into Australia and making a joke that maybe wasn’t a good joke so we can't let that story go either. Natalie: Oh, yeah. That was just another wonderful moment where sometimes my sense of humor which we talked about before doesn't go down so well. So I was waiting for a flight out of Sydney. This was back when I was in the corporate world and I was waiting in line to actually just check in on the flight and this guy came up to me, a security guy and he’s like ma’am do you mind if I check your bags? And I was like no. That’s fine. Go ahead. But can I ask you what you’re checking for. And I knew what he was checking for but I just wanted to make conversation because frankly I’ve been on the airport for a while and it was a bit boring. He’s like I’m checking for any explosives. And I was like well, you’re not going to find them there. I’ve got them strapped right here and I pointed at my chest. And I was wearing quite a fitted top so it was clearly obvious that I didn’t have anything strapped under there and I thought it was hilarious and he just -- that’s a federal offense ma’am. I could have you arrested right here on the spot. I’m not going to but that was stupid. Don’t do it again. And I was like okay. The more people that I told about that -- they were just like Natalie what were you thinking? Like what an idiotic move. So every so often even as a frequent traveler you do do some pretty stupid things. Nile: See what lack of sleep could do to a person. Well listen, we don’t have a huge amount of time yet but one of the things that I’d love to talk about if it’s okay -- in your book you talk about the three stages of building a freedom lifestyle business and I found that fascinating and I don’t know if I could indulge you but would you mind sharing those with us? Natalie: Absolutely. So _____45:01 is not surprising. The first stage is the -- I think the hardest one for people to get their head around. It’s the freedom mindset so once you do have a business or a career that affords you a little bit more flexibility a lot of people really struggle with oh, that means I don’t necessarily have to work a normal working week nine to five. I can take more time off, I can take a mid week weekend. I don’t have to be based in an office. I don’t have to have clients that are in the same location as me so it’s that -- there’s a lot more to it. There’s also dealing with friends and family which we’ve talked about here and really getting clear on your vision for how you would like to live so that freedom mindset is the first stage that I take people through. the second stage is financial freedom which really comes down to how you’re setting up a business or a career so that you have enough revenue and enough income to afford you a great lifestyle but also not tie you down; your revenue streams that you have allowing you to be flexible in what you do; how active or passively do you want to be involved in the work that you do as well. so that’s all the nuts and bolts of building an online business, the business model, the social media aspect and strategy, your sales funnel, outsourcing, systems etcetera. And the final part is lifestyle freedom. So what sort of a lifestyle do you want? how are you going to live, how often do you want to travel, how much time do you want to be spending at home, what does that look like to you, how do you travel, how do you pack lightly. Really talking about minimalism as well and how do you get rid of a lot of those possessions that are weighing you down to be more free. Nile: I like that travel hack. I noticed you’ve got a few interesting terms like travel hack and digital nomad and things like that. Natalie: Yeah. I don’t make them up but they’re quite common in my world. But for people who’ve just heard them for the first time they’re like oh, digital nomad. I like that. And I’m like yeah. I didn’t make it up. Nile: Well, that is quite alright. I know that you’ve got an awful lot to share with people. We will have the links up on our website and it will be on social media business hour. Episode 119. But can you tell a little bit of -- the listeners -- share with us what you have and what you do and how people could engage with you? Natalie: Yeah. So a little bit more about kind of how I run my business or what I have on offer? Nile: What do you have that you offer people so that they could learn to do what you do and sort of roam around the world and be fun and fancy free. Natalie: Well, most of what I do actually is free for people which is great. So I do have a blog at the suitcaseentrepreneur.com and I have a twice weekly podcast which is also free on iTunes. And the Suitcase entrepreneur all within the branding. The book which is really, really affordable on Amazon and just a ton of stuff that I put out there free. I do webinars, I do -- I’m starting to do more Periscopes and I just love teaching people and sharing how they can do this for themselves. And then I have digital products that I sell on my site that are all related to building an online business and also using crowd funding to sort of kick start your business if you need. And my most definitive program that I’m really excited about launched last year which is my main stand. Every single piece of advice and experience and learning has gone into it. It’s the Freedom plan and you touched on the three stages. There’s what basically makes up the Freedom plan so it’s 12 modules. There’s a lot more to it than that but essentially I take people through those three stages with 12 modules of online learning, support and community involved and that’s my baby that I’m really wanting to get more and more people through because I’m starting to see incredible results that people are getting. And as I said, I think it’s like everything that I’ve accumulated over my entire lifetime but also five years in business to help people do this for themselves. Nile: Well, I can't recommend highly enough. As I said, you’ve got a five star rated book. When you look at all of the ratings on Amazon. The Suitcase entrepreneur. I recommend that. We’ve got that available as a link on the show notes as well for episode 119. And I have to say I’ve got the privilege -- I like all of the pictures on your website and everything like that but one of the pictures that just says freedom to me is your Skype picture and I’m not sure that everybody gets to see your Skype picture. Natalie: Oh, does it? I should look at it. Oh, that one. Nile: Yeah. Well, you’re up high. I don’t know if it’s a mountain top. I’ll call it a hill top. But beautiful scenery behind you. There you are with a great smile and two thumbs up and to me that just says freedom in a really great way so I love it. Natalie: That’s true. I should probably put that one out. That was actually a panorama looking across the _____49:51 it reminded me of the hobbit’s land and Middle Earth because it’s just so beautiful so maybe I’ll incorporate that into my blog. Nile: It needs to be because it really is a great picture that says freedom in a big way. But Natalie I would like to thank you so much for joining all of us today on the social media business hour. And for our listeners, I want to thank you too. Hopefully you learned a few new ideas or concepts. Maybe a dream got started. Maybe you were just reminded of a few things that you already know but you haven’t been doing to improve or grow your business or your life. Our desire is you take just one of the things that you learned or were reminded of today and you apply it this week to your life or business. We know that a small change can make a big difference and I’m committed to bringing you at least one new idea each week that you could implement so go back and identify just one small change that you could make to your business or your life this week and see what a big difference it will make for you. So until next week, this is Nile Nickel. Now, go make it happen. Woman: Social media business hour is powered by linkedinfocus.com. For show notes, updates and to pick up the latest tips and tricks head over to socialmediabusinesshour.com. Until next time. Thanks for listening. [/content_toggle] Weblinks: Facebook: http://facebook.com/suitcaseentrepreneurTwitter: @nataliesisson Related Books: