Pathfinder

This week on Valley of Depth, we're joined by Paul Lwin, co-founder and CEO of Havoc AI—a builder of integrated hardware, software, and logistics that enables collaborative, autonomous maritime operations. A former Navy test pilot and electronic warfare officer, Paul saw firsthand the strategic challenge posed by China's industrial scale in the Pacific and set out to build an asymmetric answer.In this episode, Paul shares how Havoc went from pre-seed to delivering 40+ autonomous vessels in just 18 months, what it takes to deploy real autonomy in contested environments, and why the Navy forced them to sell their early prototypes. We also cover:Why Havoc built 12 USVs with just 5 people and a $1.2M pre-seedHow Ukraine's naval tactics shifted the Pentagon's mindsetThe difference between platform, mission, and decision autonomyWhy primes can't match Havoc's pace—or price pointHow Replicator changed the rules for startup engagement with DoDWhat it'll take to get thousands of autonomous boats into the Pacific…and much more.Check out VoD #006 on…YouTube, Apple, or Spotify. • Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:07 - Company Mission & Vision3:43 - DoD Autonomous Exercise Demonstration6:41 - Funding to Demo Timeline8:43 - Founding Team & Headquarters10:19 - Market Demand for Autonomous Maritime Tech12:42 - Vertical Integration Strategy14:30 - US Navy Capability Gaps16:24 - Geopolitics & Business Strategy17:40 - Product Architecture Roadmap21:21 - Commercial Market Potential24:05 - Autonomy Level Achieved26:48 - Contested Environment Design28:24 - Next Frontier in Naval Tech30:04 - Scaling for DoD Requirements32:09 - Competitive Differentiation33:48 - Prime Contractor Advantages35:21 - Replicator Initiative Impact36:19 - Buyer Incentive Structures37:44 - Desired Policy Changes39:09 - Scaling Funding Requirements40:35 - Defining Mission Success • Show notes •Havoc's socials — https://x.com/HavocAi_USVMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition's socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic's socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we're joined by Marc Allen, CEO of Electra and former Chief Strategy Officer at Boeing. After nearly two decades at one of aerospace's most iconic companies, Marc stepped away—and then doubled down—on aviation with a bold bet: a hybrid-electric aircraft that takes off in 150 feet, carries 1,000 pounds, and can land almost anywhere. In this episode, Marc breaks down why the future of flight is short-runway, low-noise, and mission-flexible—and how Electra's EL-9 is carving out a new category of aircraft entirely. We also get into:Why hybrid-electric beats all-electricHow Electra won over DOD and NASAThe military's growing demand for quiet, flexible airliftWhy rotorcraft are ripe for disruptionThe company's $13B+ order bookAnd how Marc thinks about scaling from Boeing to startup • Chapters •0:00 - Episode Introduction0:58 - Marc's Transition: Boeing to Electra3:13 - Electric Propulsion Breakthrough Moment4:29 - Electra's Core Technology5:17 - Importance of Electric Aircraft6:52 - EL9 vs Helicopter Comparison7:30 - Safety Features10:06 - Automation Capabilities10:54 - Charging Infrastructure11:18 - Technology Maturity Level12:41 - EL9 Market Potential15:57 - Current Demand & Use Cases18:17 - Operator Economics20:20 - Air Force Partnership21:16 - Defense Applications23:43 - Autonomous Potential24:41 - Future Aircraft Versions26:08 - NASA's Interest26:47 - Civil vs Defense Models27:21 - Manufacturing Process29:15 - Certification Timeline31:32 - Key Challenges34:24 - Fundraising Status36:32 - Commercialization Costs38:00 - Upcoming Milestones38:24 - Team Size39:03 - Scaling From Large to Small Company41:15 - OEM Strategy41:50 - 10-Year Vision42:44 - Marc's Personal Interests43:40 - Pilot Training Requirements • Show notes •Electra's socials — https://x.com/ElectraAeroMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition's socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic's socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies. Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we're joined by Erik Kriessmann, Partner at Altimeter – the $10B crossover firm known for backing generational companies across tech, defense, and space. From sourcing early-stage deals to helping build world-class teams, Erik's path into venture started with a deep focus on talent, giving him a rare edge in identifying high-potential founders and building lasting partnerships. In this episode, Erik shares how Altimeter thinks about concentrated investing, why the firm bets big on supercycles, and what it takes to earn a seat at the table with the best teams in tech. We also cover:How Altimeter defines a “supercycle”The firm's bets across AI, defense, and aerospaceWhat separates a good founder from a great oneWhy Altimeter backed Anduril and K2His take on the Mars hype (spoiler: not yet)And how SpaceX changed the game for everyone…and much more. • Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:05 - Did Erik know he was going to be an investor?1:44 - Erik's career journey9:05 - Going from building talent teams to working with CEOs directly12:07 - The investment philosophy core to Altimeter's growth15:31 - Public vs private side of Altimeter16:42 - How decisions get made19:35 - What is today's super cycle?21:14 - What technologies is Altimeter currently excited about?22:40 - What does Erik look for in a founder?24:25 - How do geopolitics weigh in on Altimeter's investments?27:20 - Space super cycle28:56 - What is Erik on the lookout for in the space industry31:04 - How about Mars?33:42 - Why did Altimeter first invest in Anduril?36:09 - Navigating the DoD procurement process37:50 - Expanding margin with the government customer40:27 - Are we in a defense tech bubble?41:56 - Has Altimeter invested in pure play defense names outside of Anduril?44:03 - Exit paths for Altimeter's investments45:34 - Foreign defense investment opportunities47:34 - What would Erik be doing if he wasn't an investor?49:42 - What's Erik listening to these days? • Show notes •Erik's socials — https://x.com/ekriessmannBrad's socials — https://x.com/altcapMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition's socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic's socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we're joined by Christian Garcia, Partner at Breakthrough Energy Ventures — the Bill Gates-backed climate fund investing in bold technologies to accelerate the energy transition across every sector of the economy. With portfolio companies tackling everything from geologic hydrogen to reusable rockets, BEV is redefining what it means to scale climate impact through hard tech. In this conversation, Christian shares how BEV thinks about breakthrough innovation, what makes a venture-backable climate solution, and why some of the most disruptive ideas look impossible—until they're not. We also get into:BEV's origin storyHow climate and national security are convergingThe firm's approach to fusion, hydrogen, and aerospaceWhy BEV backed both CFS and Pacific FusionWhat drew Christian to space — and Stoke Space in particularAnd his take on what's really being underestimated in climate today• Chapters •0:00 - Intro1:04 - What is Breakthrough Energy Ventures and how is it different from a typical fund?2:26 - BEV's investors and why are they interested5:45 - Is there a defense interest at BEV?9:00 - How did Christian get into this space?11:13 - What is BEV currently focused on?14:17 - What type of breakthrough is BEV investing in and when?17:16 - Firms BEV co-invests with18:34 - Seed and Pre-seed investing25:43 - What is the goal of investing in multiple fusion companies?30:23 - How does space fit in BEV's climate portfolio?34:23 - How do you separate bold vision from wishful thinking?38:03 - Balancing science and storytelling42:08 - Tech that Christian has passed on45:37 - A BEV company that Christian thinks will shock the world with its success48:48 - What are some common misconceptions about climate tech?51:28 - Rapidfire questions • Show notes •BEV's website — https://www.breakthroughenergy.org/our-work/breakthrough-energy-ventures/BEV's socials — https://x.com/BreakthroughMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition's socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic's socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Valley of Depth, we're joined by Tejpaul Bhatia, the newly appointed CEO of Axiom Space — a company building one of the first commercial space stations and leading private human spaceflight missions to low Earth orbit. The company is gearing up for Ax-4, Axiom's fourth mission to the ISS, which will fly astronauts from Poland, Hungary, and India under the command of Axiom astronaut Peggy Whitson. In his first interview (and podcast) as CEO, Tejpaul shares what the leadership transition means for Axiom, why he sees the company as a “forever business,” and how he plans to scale its station, suits, and astronaut programs into a thriving orbital economy. We also get into:Tejpaul's journey from startup founder to Axiom CEOThe state of the space station market and the case for demandWhat investors misunderstand about orbital infrastructureAxiom's shifting revenue mix and modular station roadmapHis take on the CLD program and U.S. industrial strategyHow Tejpaul thinks about scaling trust, culture, and ambition in space• Chapters •00:00 Intro00:59 Tejpaul's transition into the CEO role03:25 Tejpaul's background before Axiom08:03 Reaction to being offered CRO role10:50 Previous CEO's departure12:57 Preserving vs evolving at Axiom14:23 Initial priorities as CEO19:06 Free-flying space station market24:37 Number of future space station operators27:06 Science projects vs commercial viability32:44 Current and future revenue streams38:11 Commercial Low-Earth Orbit Destination (CLD)41:21 Moving beyond NASA dependence45:45 Technical roadmap47:19 Astronaut program pricing53:21 What investors miss about stations56:04 Capital requirements and fundraising01:00:07 Cost of first station01:01:35 Axiom & SpaceX relationship01:04:40 Tejpaul's personal interests • Show notes •Axiom's website — https://axiomspace.com/Axiom's socials — https://x.com/Axiom_SpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition's socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic's socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

We're excited to launch Valley of Depth, our new podcast taking the place of our beloved (formerly known as) Pathfinder (RIP) podcast. Valley of Depth is about the technologies that matter—and the people building them. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies. In our inaugural episode, EP 001, we're joined by Bryon Hargis, co-founder and CEO of Castelion, a venture-backed defense startup building affordable, mass-producible hypersonic missile systems for the U.S. and allied militaries. Castelion, founded by former SpaceX engineers, is taking a vertically integrated, fast-iteration approach to strike weapons—redefining how complex defense hardware is built. In this episode, we unpack the story behind Castelion's formation, the rising hypersonic threat from China, how startups are challenging the dominance of traditional primes—and much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:52 What inspired Bryan to leave SpaceX and start Castelion?03:06 Non-nuclear deterrence05:15 How SpaceX's culture influenced Castelion07:44 Current team size08:07 Cultural shift in defense hiring10:04 Hypersonic missile advantages12:03 US vs China capabilities13:32 Tradeoffs vs exquisite systems16:08 What's behind Bryon18:02 Recent test results20:54 Iterating safely24:27 Castelion's DoD buyer26:56 Navigating defense acquisition32:11 Championing innovation35:17 The Golden Dome concept37:10 Requirements for Golden Dome39:21 Startups vs primes race40:49 Scaling missile production timeline42:48 European market potential44:19 Competition with defense primes45:49 Capital requirements47:26 Company vision49:13 World impact if successful50:48 Next milestones52:14 Story behind the name • Show notes •Castelion's website — https://www.castelion.com/Bryon's socials — https://x.com/hargsb Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspaceIgnition's socials — https://twitter.com/ignitionnuclear / https://www.linkedin.com/company/ignition-nuclear/Tectonic's socials  — https://twitter.com/tectonicdefense / https://www.linkedin.com/company/tectonicdefense/Valley of Depth archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/ • About us •Valley of Depth is a podcast about the technologies that matter — and the people building them. Brought to you by Arkaea Media, the team behind Payload (space), Ignition (nuclear energy), and Tectonic (defense tech), this show goes beyond headlines and hype. We talk to founders, investors, government officials, and military leaders shaping the future of national security and deep tech. From breakthrough science to strategic policy, we dive into the high-stakes decisions behind the world's hardest technologies.Payload: www.payloadspace.comIgnition: www.ignition-news.comTectonic: www.tectonicdefense.com

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Ed Fyfe, founder of Ed Fyfe Design, a creative studio focused on branding and visual identity for space and hardware companies. With a background in agency work and a passion for the space industry, Ed has built a reputation for helping companies craft compelling brand identities that stand out in a crowded market.In this episode, we explore the role of branding and design in the space industry and why it's more than just a logo—it's a strategic asset. We also discuss:– Ed's journey from working in consumer branding to launching his own space-focused design practice– The importance of branding for space companies and when founders should prioritize it– How SpaceX, NASA, and other major players have influenced space industry branding– Common branding mistakes in the sector and how to avoid them– The impact of branded hardware and creative storytelling in making space companies memorable– The role of brand partnerships and what makes a good collaborationAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:53 Ed's journey in design and branding03:45 Why is branding and design important?05:26 Why and when should a space company care about branding?08:45 Why should a space company be thinking about branding?10:38 Common branding mistakes space companies make13:33 How much of brand identity is instinct?15:38 How much of NASA's legacy influenced modern branding strategies18:35 Historical branding elements in the space industry21:56 How do you translate a company's vision into a brand identity?33:34 EO industry's branding39:43 Branded hardware45:08 What are brand partnerships and do they matter?50:14 Advice for space startups on beginning with a strong differentiated brand?55:09 How to find, connect, and work with Ed • Show notes •Ed's website — https://edfyfedesign.com/Ed's email — edfyfedesign@gmail.comMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Jack Kuhr, Research Director at Payload, for a deep dive into one of the most closely watched companies in the space industry—SpaceX. We break down Payload's latest analysis of SpaceX's revenue, exploring how the company's launch business and Starlink network are shaping its financial trajectory.With our estimate of SpaceX's 2024 revenue at $13.1 billion, this episode unpacks the numbers, key growth drivers, and what's next. We also discuss:How Payload builds its SpaceX revenue model and refines estimates year after yearThe breakdown of SpaceX's revenue across launch, Starlink, and other government contractsThe rapid growth of Starlink—now at 4.6 million customers—and where the business is headedThe future of Starship and its impact on Falcon 9, launch pricing, and industry competitionPotential financial winners and losers when Starship becomes fully operationalSpeculative questions on SpaceX's future, from a possible IPO to whether it can become the first trillion-dollar space companyAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro01:02 Jack's background02:16 Constructing the SpaceX revenue estimates06:17 How close our predictions were08:01 Numbers rundown10:02 SpaceX's percentage of global launch10:45 SpaceX's price per launch12:26 Does SpaceX need Starling to stay profitable?13:55 When will Starship launch paying customers?15:44 Starlink's next-gen satellites18:19 Starlink's sub growth20:38 Evolution of Starlink's pricing power22:51 Where does SpaceX see the most growth?25:12 Starlink's scalability and will it ever reach 50+ million customers?29:03 SpaceX's other revenue generator31:10 Will Starship make Falcon 9 obsolete?32:37 Who loses when Starship becomes fully operational?34:05 Will demand make up for the loss of cost per kilogram?36:33 If SpaceX was a public company, how would investors react to these revenue figures?39:19 Which SpaceX revenue stream could 10x?41:03 Will SpaceX be the first trillion-dollar space company? • Show notes •Estimating SpaceX's 2024 Revenue — https://payloadspace.com/estimating-spacexs-2024-revenue/Jack's socials — https://x.com/JackKuhrMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Matt Weinzierl, Chair of the MBA Program and Professor at Harvard Business School, and Brendan Rosseau, a member of the strategy team for launch at Blue Origin. Together, they've co-authored Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier, a new book exploring the history, key players, and economic forces driving the momentum behind the space industry.We discuss:The evolution of space economics and how government-private sector dynamics are changingThe role of NASA as an anchor customer and whether the model has limitsThe rise of defense-focused pivots in commercial space companiesMarket competition and whether we're seeing monopolization in spaceThe economic case for lunar activity, space stations, and emerging industriesThe biggest risks that could stall commercial space progressTheir book launches on February 25, and this conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in the economic forces shaping the future of space. You can order here! • Chapters •00:00 Intro04:00 HBS's Space Program06:36 An introduction to “Space to Grow”08:50 The shift from space to defense13:02 What to expect from the book16:56 Space competition or monopolization?21:52 How classic economic principles apply to space29:24 Are we transitioning away from NASA to anchor customers?33:36 Does space have the right financing structures in place to build this industry?38:47 Economic case for the Moon (Mars?)44:16 Viability of space stations48:22 What space industries have the best economic potential in the next couple decades?52:32 Biggest impediment to the space industry55:43 Key takeaways from “Space to Grow”59:05 Matt and Brendan's favorite books01:01:13 Where to find Matt and Brendan • Show notes •Space to Grow — https://www.amazon.com/Space-Grow-Unlocking-Economic-Frontier/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Jeremiah Pate, founder and CEO of Lunasonde, a company pioneering subsurface imaging from space. Lunasonde is developing technology to map the Earth's underground, leveraging low-frequency synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to identify critical minerals and resources.With two satellites launched and the first full-tech satellite in their constellation set to launch in July, this episode dives into how Lunasonde is reshaping resource exploration. We also discuss:Lunasonde's founding story and Jeremiah's inspiration for the companyThe fundamentals of subsurface SAR and how it differs from traditional radar technologiesThe company's royalty-based business model and its potential to disrupt the critical minerals industryReal-world applications, including a breakthrough discovery of a previously unknown copper depositThe long-term vision for Lunasonde, including applications beyond Earth and mapping resources on the Moon and asteroidsInsights on the challenges of scaling a space startup and navigating regulatory barriersAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro03:04 What is SAR?05:19 What is subsurface?06:29 Critical minerals and Lunasonde's approach to the market07:49 Size & demand10:20 System architecture11:28 Lunasonde's launches12:02 Interpreting SAR data13:27 SubSAR vs seismic imaging or ground penetrating radar15:25 Environmental reasons behind building subSAR16:22 How to ensure accuracy and reliability of the data17:08 Corona satellites20:48 How does Lunasonde convince ideal customers to embrace new technologies?22:48 Examples of discovering new deposits24:09 Lunasonde's competitors26:02 Why do people think subSAR is impossible?27:12 Going beyond the Earth28:39 Other revenue models30:27 Commercial vs government traction31:27 Is Lunasonde looking for partnerships with space mining startups?32:14 Scaling path33:09 Funding34:11 What keeps Jeremiah up at night?34:52 Long-term vision36:53 Could orgs like NASA use Lunasonde's capabilities for more intensive resource hunting missions?38:28 What would Jeremiah like to change in the space industry?40:51 If Jeremiah wasn't working at Lunasonde, where would he like to work? • Show notes •Lunasonde's website — https://www.lunasonde.com/Lunasonde's socials — https://x.com/Lunasonde/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Awais Ahmed, founder and CEO of Pixxel, a company focused on developing hyperspectral imaging technology from space. Pixxel is developing the world's first commercial hyperspectral satellite constellation, aiming to provide detailed insights into critical industries like agriculture, energy, and defense.With the recent launch of three Firefly satellites—the first in Pixxel's commercial fleet—this episode explores the company's progress and vision for the future of Earth observation. We also discuss:Pixxel's founding story and Awais' background in satellite engineering and Hyperloop competitionsThe fundamentals of hyperspectral imaging and its advantages over traditional imaging methodsPixxel's satellite constellation plans and how they're balancing commercial and government marketsThe role of AI in satellite imaging and its potential to unlock new applicationsAwais' take on the evolving Earth observation market and the challenges of scaling a space startupAnd more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:48 - Impact of the new administration02:32 - The story behind Pixxel07:37 - Hyperspectral imaging11:14 - How hyperspectral fits into the other types of satellite imaging15:01 - How big is the satellite imaging market today?17:30 - Government uses and advancements in hyperspectral21:30 - Established commercial vs growing government markets25:23 - What does Pixxel's constellation look like?27:22 - Firefly vs Honeybee28:03 - Customer experience at Pixxel29:46 - AI's impact33:44 - Most valuable part of the EO stack36:05 - Starlink architecture and other EO businesses37:49 - Pixxel's commercial traction39:27 - What's a good margin profile?42:01 - Valuation of public EO businesses45:19 - Raising private capital in EO and fundraising plans48:37 - Pixxel in 203550:22 - What else excites Awais besides EO?51:29 - Pixxel's US office • Show notes •Pixxel's website — https://www.pixxel.space/Pixxel's socials — https://x.com/PixxelSpaceAwais' socials — https://x.com/awaisahmednaMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome Adam Draper, founder and managing director of Boost VC, an early-stage venture capital firm based in San Mateo, CA, specializing in pre-seed deals in deep tech, including space.Boost VC's track record includes early investments in space companies such as Varda, Starfish Space, and K2 Space. This episode explores the philosophy and strategy behind the firm's approach to venture capital.In addition, we discuss:Adam's journey into VC and the Draper family legacy in the industryThe firm's commitment to backing “impossible” ideas and frontier technologiesInsights into investing in deep tech, from identifying committed founders to understanding market risksThe importance of storytelling and momentum in aerospace and defense startupsBoost's role in shaping the future of space industries, from lunar water mining to satellite servicing and space manufacturingPredictions for the future of space and deep tech, including the rise of biopharma in orbit and even the search for extraterrestrial lifeAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:45 - Adam's background07:48 - Boost VC11:57 - How do you tell a founder has commitment?14:04 - Signs of a founder with a real interest in space17:54 - Making the case for the space market20:51 - On the frontier23:01 - Signs Adam looks for when he needs to step in and direct a company28:20 - Investing in software vs. deep tech30:43 - Early-stage pre-seed investing38:07 - How would a founder differentiate themselves when it comes to fundraising?43:25 - How to stay ahead of the curve with investing in space48:36 - Craziest space deal Adam has invested in51:46 - Adam's 2025 predictions • Show notes •Boost VC website — https://www.boost.vc/Boost's socials — https://x.com/BoostVCAdam's socials — https://x.com/AdamDraperMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're ready to kick off 2025 with our first episode back from a brief holiday hiatus. Joining us is Stefan Powell, co-founder and CEO of Dawn Aerospace—a company focused on building scalable, sustainable space transportation solutions. After cutting their teeth with an in-space propulsion business, Dawn is now pushing the boundaries with Aurora, a rocket-powered plane that recently breaking the sound barrier (or Mach 1).In this episode, we explore:From Student Rocket Club to Thriving Venture: Stefan's background and how his early rocketry experiences shaped Dawn's mission.Satellite Propulsion: Why Dawn's safer, scalable alternatives to traditional satellite fuel are gaining traction in the market—and how they enable near-term revenue.Aurora's Breakthrough Flight: Hitting Mach 1.1, testing supersonic aerodynamics, and the path toward suborbital flight capabilities.Hypersonics & Beyond: Why government R&D and military programs are pouring billions into hypersonics research—and how Dawn plans to help solve the “access-to-test-time” gap.Aircraft-Like Space Access: Dawn's long-term vision for truly rapid, reusable, runway-based vehicles that could revolutionize launch operations.Building for the Future, One Step at a Time: How Stefan thinks about scaling, capital efficiency, and bridging near-term commercial opportunities with an ambitious roadmap.…and much, more. • Chapters •00:00:00 - Intro00:01:45 - Founding Dawn00:06:33 - Core products00:08:52 - Sustainability00:11:25 - How Stefan got into the space industry00:16:20 - What Stefan is developing with Aurora00:19:09 - Recent flight00:20:38 - Why is it important to go past Mach 1?00:24:02 - Technical milestones before full orbital capabilities00:26:43 - Hypersonics and building commercial ability00:30:23 - Government customers00:31:39 - Opportunities in hypersonic weapons?00:33:02 - Payload capacity of first commercial launch vehicle00:33:58 - Long-term scaling goals00:37:15 - What is so difficult about building commercial hypersonic platforms?00:42:05 - Most significant hurdles when it comes to scaling and manufacturing00:44:32 - Building in New Zealand00:46:38 - Revenue mix00:48:15 - Capital efficiency00:51:47 - Effect of Starship on the launch market00:53:42 - What does success look like for Dawn over the next 10 years00:56:25 - What Stefan has learned about being a CEO/Founder for 15 years00:58:11 - Everything's on the table • Show notes •Dawn's website — https://www.dawnaerospace.com/Dawn's socials — https://x.com/DawnAerospaceStefan's socials — https://x.com/Stefan__PowellMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Quick PSA: This is our final Pathfinder episode of 2024! We're so grateful for your support and can't wait to bring you more content and a new format next year. Stay tuned!In our third and final episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we're focusing on how nuclear-enabled technologies will power and propel a sustainable future on the Moon. This episode ties together the insights from the series and offers a vision of how energy systems will enable humans to survive on the lunar surface and venture deeper into the solar system.Joining us are Kerry Timmons, Senior Manager of Business Development at Lockheed Martin for Lunar Infrastructure, and Joe Miller, President of BWXT Advanced Technologies. Together, they share their perspective on the role nuclear power and propulsion play in supporting a long-term presence on the Moon.We also discuss:How nuclear technologies provide reliable power during the lunar night and beyondThe engineering challenges and solutions for deploying nuclear systemsThe interplay between nuclear and solar energy in a resilient lunar gridApplications for nuclear thermal propulsionThe collaborative efforts required across government, industry, and international partners to make this a realityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00:00 - Intro00:01:05 - Joe's background00:02:47 - Kerry's background00:04:19 - Vision for a thriving lunar infrastructure00:07:13 - Nuclear and space00:08:48 - Lockheed's history with nuclear00:10:23 - Lessons from history that make current power systems in space more efficient00:13:00 - Nuclear's importance for a sustained lunar presence00:16:09 - Engineering challenges00:18:54 - How does mass play a role in the design of the nuclear reactor?00:20:24 - What will these reactors power?00:22:04 - Regulation & safety00:25:22 - Space Policy Directive – 600:27:03 - International alignment00:30:24 - Propulsion00:34:30 - Chemical vs. nuclear propulsion00:38:53 - When will nuclear systems be ready for use?00:40:06 - Economic reason for using nuclear propulsion00:43:34 - Terrestrial application for nuclear00:44:40 - Startup capabilities that Lockheed is interested in00:47:25 - What tech breakthrough would you prioritize for the Moon?00:49:36 - Innovation predictions in the next 10 years • Show notes •Lockheed Martin's website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.htmlLockheed Martin Space' socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In the second episode of our special three-part Pathfinder series on lunar architecture—brought to you by our partners at Lockheed Martin—we're zooming in on the technologies and design principles that will help establish a sustainable, long-term presence on the Moon and pave the way for future missions to Mars. Joining us are Christie Iacomini, who manages Lockheed Martin's lunar infrastructure technology portfolio, and Tim Cichan, the company's space exploration architect.Christie and Tim walk us through the building blocks of lunar infrastructure, from robust power systems and reliable communications networks to habitats and mobility solutions. They also highlight the importance of resource utilization, the evolving role of public-private partnerships, and the collaborative efforts needed to turn ambitious concepts into practical solutions.We discuss:The role of vertical solar arrays, nuclear fission systems, and power grids in supporting lunar operationsCommunications challenges and the roadmap for building an interoperable lunar networkInnovative habitats and rovers designed to withstand extreme lunar conditionsStrategies for in-situ resource utilization, including extracting water ice and other key materialsThe significance of international collaboration and commercial engagement in achieving lasting lunar sustainabilityAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro03:45 - What is a space architect?04:42 - Lockheed's goal for Mars08:23 - Technological advancements that have made a long-term Moon mission possible09:52 - What does a successful Lunar mission look like?11:46 - Power systems for Lunar and Mars missions and state of development cycles18:15 - Tech in Artemis II and III20:04 - Challenges for creating a seamless communications network for the Moon22:34 - Effect of modern tech in space27:10 - Lunar mobility capabilities30:44 - Habitation33:14 - Inflatable vs modular habitats34:20 - Lunar resource utilization36:42 - How to create seamless integration between mission-critical tech41:55 - Planned contingencies43:49 - Seemingly futuristic technology45:54 - Getting around on the Moon47:48 - How Lockheed works with other companies building Lunar architecture49:01 - Technical milestones50:58 - What will it take to land on the Moon on time?52:07 - Inspirations for your work • Show notes •Lockheed Martin's website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.htmlLockheed Martin Space' socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're excited to bring you a special one-off episode, made possible by Astroscale U.S., the Denver-based subsidiary of Astroscale, a global provider of on-orbit servicing solutions. This episode dives into the DoD's push to integrate commercial in-space servicing, assembly, and manufacturing (ISAM) capabilities to enhance flexibility, resilience, and sustainability in military space operations.Joining the discussion are retired Colonel Dennis Wille, Senior Director of Business Development for National Security at Astroscale US, and John “Patsy” Klein, Senior Fellow in Strategy at Falcon Research and a leading expert in space policy and strategy. Together, we unpack how ISAM technologies are transforming space operations and advancing U.S. leadership in the domain.This episode covers:The DoD's commercial space integration strategy and ISAM's role in enhancing operational resilienceThe challenges and opportunities of managing space debris and enabling active debris removalHow ISAM capabilities like refueling, repair, and inspection are reshaping spacecraft lifecyclesThe critical role of commercial partnerships in supporting national security objectivesThe future of space operations and the technologies poised to drive innovationAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro04:12 - What is ISAM and why is it so important to the DoD's space strategy?06:08 - Patsy's role in commercial integration of ISAM08:49 - What is the DoD's commercial space strategy?10:57 - Astroscale's priorities14:53 - Why does the government care about debris removal?16:18 - Why does space junk removal help the US to maintain leadership in space?19:30 - PLEO and commercial opportunity22:49 - Tech capabilities being developed at Astroscale26:50 - Mature ISAM capabilities that we have today29:23 - Astroscale and DoD partnership31:07 - Government vs commercial customer makeup prediction32:19 - Policy/regulatory hurdles for ISAM34:17 - What will it take for commercial to become a bigger part of Astroscale's business?37:09 - Does ISAM have an education issue?39:18 - Technical gaps in ISAM40:50 - What technological advancements should we anticipate?42:24 - What defense strategies will ISAM create?45:06 - How Astroscale positions themselves against competitors47:59 - Advice for investors interested in ISAM49:28 - How can the US maintain their leadership role in space?51:53 - Book recommendations • Show notes •Astroscale's website — hhttps://astroscale-us.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're kicking off a special three-part series on lunar architecture, brought to you by our friends at Lockheed Martin. To kick off the series, we're exploring the future of lunar architecture more broadly with Rob Chambers, Director of Strategy for Human Space Exploration at Lockheed Martin, and Alex MacDonald, Chief Economist at NASA. In this episode, Alex and Rob share their perspectives on the complexities of building sustainable lunar missions and the critical technologies shaping the future. The discussion dives into the integration of international collaboration, public-private partnerships, and groundbreaking innovations that will enable humanity's return to the Moon and its next steps across the solar system.We also cover:NASA's Artemis program and the Moon-to-Mars exploration strategyThe role of international and commercial partnerships in advancing lunar missionsFoundational infrastructure, including habitats, rovers, and nuclear power systemsLessons from Apollo and how they inform today's approach to sustainable lunar explorationThe evolving lunar economy and what it might mean for humanity's future in spaceAnd much, much more...• Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:25 - Rob's and Alex's background04:22 - NASA's vision for the Moon09:15 - NASA and Lockheed: their history with the Moon13:36 - Lessons from previous Lunar missions16:34 - What has changed to allow partnerships to be more efficient?25:13 - Challenges working with international agencies30:35 - Helium-3 mining and other lunar business models37:14 - Lockheed's Lunar Roadmap43:05 - Who are the other players in the Artemis program and collaboration?49:56 - Resiliency and risk55:13 - End goals for Lunar missions in the next 100 years01:02:41 - When are we landing on the Moon? • Show notes •Lockheed Martin's website — https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/capabilities/space/human-space-exploration/water-based-lunar-architecture/lockheed-martins-lunar-architecture-novella-white-paper.htmlLockheed Martin Space' socials — https://twitter.com/LMSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we are joined by Chris Morales, Partner at Point72 Ventures, for a discussion on venture capital's role in shaping the space and defense technology landscape. In this episode, Chris provides a detailed overview of Point72 Ventures' strategic approach to investing, drawing on his background as a former naval officer and his experience in venture capital. The conversation covers key trends and challenges facing the space and defense sectors, with a focus on how startups can navigate this evolving ecosystem.In addition, we discuss:Point72 Ventures' investment framework and focus on emerging technologies critical to national securityThe growth of the space economy, from the adoption of proliferated LEO architectures to in-space mobility innovationsEvaluating companies across different stages of maturityThe role of government programs and non-dilutive fundingSpaceX's impact on market dynamics and its broader implications for venture-backed companiesStructural and financial barriers that space and defense startups face, and how investors can help address them • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:02 - Chris's Thanksgiving must-haves02:15 - Point72 Ventures overview05:35 - History with space06:42 - Why did Point72 Ventures first get into space?09:00 - Chris's thesis about the space industry10:49 - Proliferated LEO12:11 - Predictive work and investments13:02 - At what stage in a company is Point72 Ventures looking to invest?13:53 - How does space fit into the investment strategy?15:51 - What happens when a portfolio company isn't hitting their milestones?17:12 - The process18:39 - How Point72 Ventures separates itself and what it provides beyond capital20:31 - Public and private sides of the firm21:13 - Market dynamics24:05 - Is there enough government funding for startups, and are they winning enough contracts?27:29 - Does SpaceX's valuation make sense?29:47 - Starship vs. Starlink business prediction32:42 - Is SpaceX a monopoly?33:26 - Is SpaceX a concern when it comes to investing in the industry?35:04 - Biggest issues facing startups today and how can investors help39:04 - Over and under-hyped areas of the market40:36 - Space ventures in the next decade42:25 - Gaps in the market43:37 - Advice to founders looking to start a space company45:00 - Mars47:00 - What does Chris do for fun? • Show notes •Point72 Ventures' website — https://p72.vc/Point 72 Ventures' socials — https://x.com/p72vcChris' socials — https://x.com/MrChrisMoralesMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're excited to welcome the one and only Peter Beck, founder and CEO of Rocket Lab. Rocket Lab continues to solidify its position as a leading end-to-end space company, offering launch services, spacecraft platforms, and in-house satellite manufacturing.In light of Rocket Lab's Q3 earnings report, which saw a 55% year-over-year revenue increase and a growing backlog of over $1B, this episode dives deep into the company's strategic and operational decisions driving its success.In addition, we discuss:Rocket Lab's journey from its early days to becoming the world's third most frequent launch providerThe development of Neutron and its significance in addressing medium-class launch demandPeter's philosophy on efficient engineering and capital allocationThe rise of Rocket Lab's spacecraft business and its role in the company's end-to-end space strategyInsights into launch market dynamics, from smallsat needs to Starship's impact on the industryAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:34 - Where is Peter Beck?01:20 - Space and the coming administration02:05 - Rocket Lab in the market and where they're going03:42 - Neutron's first launch04:24 - What's next after Neutron?05:41 - What will be the most dominant aspect of Rocket Lab in the future?07:10 - Hypersonics08:51 - Electron demand vs. supply10:02 - Electron after Neutron13:05 - Neutron's development timeline16:07 - How does Neutron compare to Falcon 9?17:20 - Neutron launch cadence18:12 - What leads to capital efficiency?21:03 - How Rocket Lab created successful projects23:04 - Aesthetics vs Engineering24:26 - SDA contract and de-risking25:23 - Why build both spacecraft and launch vehicles?27:33 - Why own and operate your own constellation?29:56 - DoD's proliferated LEO satellite services program30:40 - Frank Klein joining Rocket Lab31:50 - Operations and scaling philosophy33:25 - Outlook of the supply and demand for launch market35:13 - Is there still room for new launch startups?36:46 - Future of launch outside the US38:30 - Timeline on human spaceflight at Rocket Lab40:01 - Most strategic or technical risk that Rocket Lab currently faces41:14 - Rocket Lab and the Moon43:24 - Things to embrace in order to build a successful company44:30 - What keeps Peter up at night?45:16 - When will the space industry be welcomed by the public markets?49:20 - Things Peter is keeping an eye on51:03 - Date for humans on Moon and Mars • Show notes •Rocket Lab's website — https://www.rocketlabusa.com/Rocket Lab's socials — https://x.com/RocketLabPeter's socials — https://x.com/Peter_J_BeckMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we explore the world of satellite deployment and launch services with Robert Sproles, CEO of Exolaunch. Exolaunch is a leader in satellite integration, offering launch services and deployment solutions for commercial and government clients.We explore how Exolaunch has built a cashflow-positive business with a remarkable track record of reliability, all without external funding. In addition, we discuss:Exolaunch's founding story and its bootstrapped growth from a university project in Berlin to a $100M revenue companyHow Exolaunch navigates partnerships with major launch providers like SpaceX, Rocket Lab, and ArianeRobert's insights on the demand for satellite launches and the need for diversity in orbital accessExolaunch's plans for the future, including scaling to support larger satellites and expanding their U.S. operationsThe broader ecosystem of launch services and how larger rockets like Starship and New Glenn fit into the marketAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:30 - Robert's background08:13 - What is Exolaunch and the products offered?10:02 - Founding of Exolaunch and building a company without the need for raising capital14:09 - Bootstrap from day one and future funding plans16:35 - From Arkansas to Germany19:02 - Robert transitioning to CEO21:16 - Current market for rideshare, deployment, and mission management23:45 - What is different about Exolaunch?25:48 - Are more launch companies good for Exolaunch and is SpaceX a monopoly?27:02 - Are transporter missions anti-competitive to other launch companies?30:13 - Future satellite trends31:42 - How larger launch vehicles affect Exolaunch33:33 - Is the launch market supplier demand constrained?35:35 - How do non-American operators feel about using American launch providers?37:39 - What does reliability look like?40:08 - Exolaunch's agility43:34 - Missions that pushed the boundaries of Exolaunch's capabilities45:36 - Exolaunch headcount and future plans46:32 - Growth areas47:37 - 10+ year outlook49:07 - What does Robert do outside of Exolaunch?52:26 - Places to eat in Little Rock, Arkansas • Show notes •Exolaunch's website — https://exolaunch.com/Freeform's socials — https://twitter.com/ExolaunchMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we explore the future of 3D metal printing and manufacturing with Erik Palitsch and TJ Ronacher, co-founders of Freeform, a pioneering startup aiming to redefine industrial-scale additive manufacturing. Both SpaceX alumni, Erik and TJ share their journeys from leading projects on the Merlin and Raptor engines to co-founding Freeform, where they're using high-power lasers and real-time process control to create a new era of rapid, scalable 3D printing.We dive into how Freeform's approach is addressing longstanding challenges in the additive industry, from quality control to production speed. Erik and TJ outline their vision for Freeform as a “manufacturing as a service” model, where clients can access high-quality printed parts without the steep learning curve and costs of traditional additive systems. We also discuss:The engineering challenges they tackled at SpaceX and how that shaped Freeform's technology and business modelFreeform's technology, including their real-time closed-loop process that enables unprecedented print speeds and precisionTheir vision for the “factory of the future,” where autonomous 3D printing facilities operate globallyThe role of 3D printing in off-planet manufacturing and its impact on space explorationAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:35 - TJ's background02:15 - Erik's time at SpaceX before Freeform07:25 - How has materials in 3D printing changed in the past 10 years?12:27 - Manufacturing as a service and the tech at Freeform18:16 - 3D printing vs traditionally manufactured parts23:11 - What is the tech that Freeform is building?32:45 - True factory scale 3D printing37:10 - Traction beyond space38:06 - What Freeform is printing today38:41 - Revenue and customers41:53 - Manufacturing capability today and in the future43:51 - Advice for investors looking to invest in 3D printing49:18 - Future of 3D printing54:24 - What will off-planet 3D printing look like?57:08 - Favorite stories from SpaceX days60:47 - Milestones to look out for • Show notes •Freeform's website — https://freeform.co/Freeform's socials —https://x.com/freeform_futureMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In this week's pod, we dive into the world of space-based solar power with Baiju Bhatt, co-founder of Robinhood and now founder of Aetherflux, a new startup aiming to change how we think about energy from space. Baiju takes us on his personal journey from building a public company to tackling one of the most ambitious ideas in the space industry. Drawing on a lifelong passion for space—rooted in his father's work at NASA—Baiju reveals how Aetherflux plans to bring to life a 1970s sci-fi vision: harnessing solar power from space to solve Earth's most pressing energy challenges.Baiju shares the challenges and excitement of launching Aetherflux, and how his team is taking a modern approach to an old concept by using advanced laser technology and modular satellite networks. We also discuss:How Aetherflux is developing the first practical demonstration of space-based solar powerThe major potential applications, from powering forward-deployed military bases to remote mining sitesHow his experience at Robinhood shaped his entrepreneurial philosophy for solving massive challenges like global energyAetherflux's ambitious timeline for a demo mission in 2026And much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:44 - Robinhood to space03:51 - A father's influence06:54 - Why Aetherflux?11:15 - Natural resources in space12:18 - Why do we need solar power in space?13:53 - Market and applications for space solar19:53 - Lasers for power transmission23:02 - Efficiency gain / loss with space solar26:06 - Real time power delivery29:21 - Why not nuclear?31:37 - Space-based solar for space32:28 - Safety and regulation34:37 - Economics of space solar38:06 - Constellations at scale39:06 - Early revenue model40:09 - Competitors41:05 - Funding44:05 - An Apple moment48:19 - Aetherflux team, growth, and goals49:26 - Space startups that Baiju is excited about51:20 - Who would Baiju choose to play him in a movie? • Show notes •Aetherflux's website — https://www.aetherflux.com/Aetherflux's socials — https://twitter.com/AetherfluxUSABaiju's socials — https://twitter.com/BaijuBhattMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In this week's Pathfinder pod, we bring in Karthik Gollapudi, CEO, and Austin Spiegel, CTO, of Sift, as they dive into the company's mission to build software tools for complex machines, with a focus on telemetry solutions. Sift's platform enables end-to-end data ingestion, real-time analysis, and visualization, helping companies streamline the testing and operation of intricate hardware systems, such as spacecraft and rockets.Karthik and Austin share the story behind Sift's founding and highlight the key role telemetry plays in improving safety and efficiency for hardware engineers. We also cover:How SIFT automates data review and reduces testing timeThe challenges of managing large data volumes in aerospace and beyondHow the company helps engineers identify anomalies and prevent failuresThe importance of real-time insights for complex hardware systemsTheir recent funding round led by Google VenturesAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:31 - What is Sift building?04:18 - Origins07:30 - Austin at Riot Games10:52 - Product walkthrough13:19 - Why is data ingestion so difficult?19:30 - What is a company doing if they're not using Sift?22:05 - How do you make sure that there's no data loss?24:50 - What does a user experience look like?27:44 - What does the demand look like for real-time telemetry?28:57 - Competition29:43 - Revenue model31:56 - How Sift's tools help their customers36:46 - What's next for Sift?39:04 - What keeps you up at night?44:56 - Long-term view45:54 - Companies to be excited for • Show notes •Sift's website — siftstack.com/Sift's socials — https://x.com/SiftStackMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

In this week's Pathfinder pod, Chiara Manfletti, CEO of Neuraspace and former President of the Portuguese National Space Agency, discusses the growing importance of space situational awareness (SSA) and space traffic management. Neuraspace is a Portuguese startup that is developing a software platform that provides satellite operators with risk assessments, maneuvering advice, and insights on space debris.Chiara explains Neuraspace's mission to tackle the challenges of space debris and why it's essential to develop better tools for managing space traffic. She also shares the story behind Neurospace's founding, the company's growth, and their innovative approach to automating satellite operations.We also discuss:The threat of space debris and its long-term implicationsHow Neuraspace integrates multiple data sourcesThe role of space situational awareness in the future of autonomous spacecraftDifferences in commercial and government customer needsThe long-term vision for making space a safer, more sustainable place for satellites and other assetsAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:58 - What is Neuraspace?02:14 - The founding vision04:07 - Is space debris an issue?08:18 - Unnecessary maneuvers09:40 - Neuraspace's ecosystem11:17 - Neuraspace's ground-based hardware12:36 - Challenges acquiring the right data amidst competition14:17 - Value chain of space situational awareness15:26 - Benefits of having a company focused on intelligence17:40 - How Neuraspace predicts collision events20:22 - Challenges integrating different sources of data22:00 - Automation and level of control satellite operators24:37 - Scaling26:39 - Catalysts for satellite threat detection28:24 - Primary customers28:53 - Expectations of governments vs. commercial clients30:05 - State of orbital debris globally and how Chiara thinks it'll change31:12 - Competitors today32:25 - Revenue model33:36 - Work Neuraspace does with regulatory bodies34:20 - Funding36:07 - Long-term vision for Neuraspace • Show notes •Neuraspace's website — https://www.neuraspace.com/Neuraspace's socials — https://x.com/neuraspaceChiara's socials — https://x.com/chiaramanflettiMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

The cost to build a mass scale propellant production system on the Moon? Much less than $100M according to Starpath cofounder and CEO Saurav Shroff. The LA-based startup is developing the infrastructure for lunar resource extraction—including a power plant, a fleet of rovers, and a processing plant.In this episode, Saurav breaks down Starpath's approach to off-planet fuel production and how it can enable cost-effective and reusable space travel. He also shares his thoughts on the future of lunar and Martian colonization and how propellant production plays a pivotal role in making interplanetary travel economically viable.We also discuss:The technical hurdles of producing propellant on the Moon and MarsThe impact of propellant production on reducing the cost of space travelThe potential customers and business modelsHow Starpath's approach complements the vision of companies like SpaceX and Blue OriginThe long-term vision for a human presence on the Moon and Mars, and what it will take to get thereAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:25 - What is Startpath?04:11 - How was Starpath founded?07:28 - The team08:55 - Starpath with and without SpaceX13:20 - Mega scale propellant production16:30 - What type of propellant is Starpath making?20:15 - What is Starpath building?24:56 - Why build this power system yourself and why not nuclear?28:56 - Plant & Rover35:35 - Plan for success39:59 - Speculation on SpaceX's propellant production43:49 - Who else is a potential customer?45:49 - Revenue model48:27 - Investors and common misconceptions50:26 - Capital needs51:43 - Competitors? China?54:37 - First fuel production prediction56:03 - 10-year vision58:16 - Other businesses Saurav is excited about1:00:17 - Which celebrity will play Saurav? • Show notes •Starpath's website — https://starpath.space/Starpath's socials — https://twitter.com/StarpathSpaceSarah's socials — https://twitter.com/SauravShroff5Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we sit down with Lindsay Kaldon, NASA's Fission Surface Power Project Manager, to explore NASA's plans for deploying small nuclear reactors on the Moon and Mars as part of the Artemis missions. Before her current role at NASA, Lindsay spent over a decade in the DoD, where she worked as an Air Force officer specializing in electronic warfare, keeping pilots safe at extreme altitudes. With a background in both electrical and nuclear engineering, Lindsay's experience spans high-altitude spy planes, drones, and EMP defenses for Navy ships, giving her a unique perspective on technology in extreme environments.In this episode, Lindsay walks us through NASA's efforts to deploy small nuclear reactors on the Moon as part of the Artemis missions and beyond. She also explains how her defense background prepared her for managing the technical and regulatory complexities of space nuclear power.In addition, we cover:The history of nuclear systems in space, from SNAP-10 to today's advancementsNASA's collaboration with industry partnersThe role of nuclear power in supporting long-term lunar and Martian missionsThe technical challenges of fission in spaceThe potential future of nuclear propulsion and energy solutions for space explorationAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:28 - Lindsay's role at NASA01:07 - Power reactors in space08:05 - Highly enriched uranium11:56 - Importance of NASA's long-term nuclear goals15:28 - RPS vs FSP18:20 - Lindsay's background25:50 - Nuclear subs?31:30 - How does the team evolve in the next 5 years?39:36 - Overall architecture of NASA's FSP needs42:19 - Supply chain problems46:32 - Technical challenges of nuclear in space52:36 - Who regulates space nuclear?54:31 - DoD & NASA59:54 - Milestones to monitor02:42 - The state of nuclear on Earth • Show notes •NASA FSP website — https://www.nasa.gov/tdm/fission-surface-power/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome back Matt Gialich, cofounder and CEO of AstroForge, to discuss the company's plans to mine platinum group metals from near-Earth asteroids and its recent Series A funding. In this episode, Matt provides updates on AstroForge's upcoming missions, the challenges of developing a cost-effective method for extracting and refining space resources, and how the company is addressing the technical complexities of deep space exploration. He also delves into the specifics of the $40 million Series A round, which will support AstroForge's next two missions, and how the company is balancing risk with innovation to lower costs.In addition, we cover:AstroForge's approach to refining metals in space and their proprietary low-power refineryThe economics of the asteroid mining marketLessons learned from previous mining effortsThe importance of scalability and mission flexibilityThe regulatory landscape and its evolution as the industry growsAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:48 - Matt's background and AstroForge01:52 - Platinum group metals and why we need to mine them04:14 - Beyond just platinum mining08:27 - Bird scooters to JPL11:40 - What makes space mining companies fail and who are AstroForge's current competitors?15:37 - How large is the PGM market today?18:34 - Developments at AstroForge since July 202321:46 - Plan for Mission 223:32 - How do you choose (and image) an asteroid?27:19 - What does the architecture of the end system look like28:13 - Materials processing28:51 - Technical challenges31:08 - Cost vs Risk36:32 - State of space mining regulation and how it will evolve38:25 - How other countries are viewing space mining44:18 - Plans with Series A proceeds45:03 - Common investor misconceptions48:53 - Government contracts50:10 - Long- term vision51:20 - Are we ready for a killer asteroid?53:49 - Who's playing Matt in the movie about AstroForge? • Show notes •AstroForge's website — https://www.astroforge.com/Matt's socials — https://twitter.com/MattGialichMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder pod features Brian D'Erario, the man who keeps the lights on at Payload as the Director of Client Partnerships. Brian's role is to bring in all the revenue that makes everything at Payload possible (no pressure, Brian!).  With experience working with over 97 partners, Brian has been instrumental in shaping Payload's approach to brand awareness and lead generation.Brian shares his journey from selling B2B hardware and software to government contractors, to his time at Morning Brew, and finally joining Payload to drive partnerships in the space sector. We explore Brian's background, including his work with various industries and his insights into the unique challenges of marketing within the space industry. We also discuss:The marketing strategies that space companies often overlookThe importance of brand awareness even during the R&D phaseHow startups can compete with the primesThe role of content in engaging B2B audiencesEffective conference strategies for maximizing impactAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:04 - What does Brian do at Payload?01:51 - Brian's background04:33 - Morning Brew08:09 - Initial assessment of space marketing strategies10:39 - Do space companies market themselves well?12:27 - Marketing your product before you start selling19:46 - Brand awareness vs lead generation27:40 - When does it make sense for a startup to spend money on marketing?31:44 - How can a startup develop a marketing plan for a product that competes against a prime competitor?34:46 - Creating engaging B2B content41:31 - Agency vs in-house43:39 - Conference strategies47:44 - The Marketing Playbook52:53 - Brian's publication55:11 - Partnerships consultant57:15 - From hockey to pickleball • Show notes •Brian's Marketing Newsletter — https://payloadspace.com/marketing-deep-tech-newsletter/Brian's socials — https://twitter.com/derariobMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder pod features Tony Frazier, LeoLab's newly appointed CEO, to discuss the critical role the company plays in building a living map of orbital activity for space operations. With over $120M of private capital raised, LeoLabs has continued to expand its global network of ground-based radars, currently cataloging over 22,000 objects in LEO. Tony shares his journey from a 13-year career at Maxar to joining LeoLabs, driven by his belief in the company's mission to enhance space safety and security.We explore Tony's background, including his experience managing billion-dollar P&L operations at Maxar and his involvement with Iridium, which shaped his understanding of the risks posed by debris. We also discuss:The founding story of LeoLabsThe unique advantages of ground-based radar network compared to other tracking methodsThe exponential growth in orbital objectsScaling a radar system to meet the demands of a rapidly proliferating LEO environmentThe future of space traffic management and the impact of regulationAnd much, much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:33 - What is LeoLabs?01:34 - Where is LeoLabs based and how long have they been around?02:42 - How did Tony end up at Leo Labs?04:26 - The mission08:04 - Why LeoLabs hired Tony?09:55 - How important is debris and traffic management?13:52 - The Kessler Syndrome15:48 - LeoLabs' architecture23:08 - Competitor differentiation25:29 - Advantages of a space-based architecture28:14 - Scaling30:09 - 3rd-party data integration32:12 - Current demand for situational awareness and future predictions35:06 - Market catalysts39:38 - How LeoLabs makes money41:41 - Data tracking for the lowest tier subscription44:26 - Government vs commercial bookings44:59 - What makes LeoLabs attractive to investors?48:16 - Is the goal to become a public company?49:26 - Killer asteroids50:07 - Favorite space-related media • Show notes •LeoLab's website — https://leolabs.space/LeoLab's socials — https://twitter.com/LeoLabs_SpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we welcome back Andy Lapsa, cofounder and CEO of Stoke Space. Stoke has made remarkable strides since Andy's last appearance on the show two years ago. They've grown to over 140 employees and developed innovative full-flow staged combustion cycle engines and reusable upper-stage prototypes. Andy shares his insights on the challenges and progress in creating fully reusable launch vehicles, emphasizing the importance of rapid reusability for reducing costs and increasing availability and reliability.We dive into Andy's background, including his ten years of experience at Blue Origin and his decision to start Stoke Space to accelerate the pace of innovation. We also discuss:The unique technical approach of Stoke and the architecture of their first launch vehicle, NovaThe strategic decision to focus on second-stage reusability and how it differentiates Stoke from other providersThoughts on the current state of launch and the market potential for multiple providersThe importance of manufacturing and scalability in achieving high-frequency launchesStoke's proprietary software, Fusion, and its role in optimizing operationsAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:34 - What's changed since our last episode?03:04 - Why Andy started Stoke?07:09 - Andy's time at Blue Origin09:14 - What makes Stoke different from other launch providers?12:14 - Focusing on 2nd stage launch first14:47 - Payload capacity15:53 - Why has it taken so long for SpaceX to work on fully reusable launch capabilities?18:36 - Is there a market for multiple launch providers?21:32 - Growth in launch demand29:04 - Value proposition for working with Stoke30:25 - Getting to orbit36:24 - Minimum viable success37:59 - Product roadmap post-Nova40:03 - Investor misconceptions about launch42:21 - The factory is the product?44:52 - Fusion53:29 - What keeps Andy up at night?54:47 - Funding55:19 - Stoke's big vision56:12 - Who plays Andy in the movie about Stoke? • Show notes •Stoke's website — https://www.stokespace.comStoke's socials — https://twitter.com/stoke_spaceAndy's socials — https://twitter.com/AndyLapsaMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder features Colin Doughan, CEO of Gravitics, a Seattle-based startup that specializes in the development of modular space infrastructure to support the expansion of stations and orbital platforms. Their primary product is the StarMax module, which can be customized in various sizes to accommodate different launch vehicles and mission requirements.Colin shares his journey into the aerospace industry and his vision for building real estate platforms in space. With a background that includes nearly 20 years at Lockheed Martin and founding Altius Space Machines (acquired by Voyager), Colin brings a considerable amount of experience in infrastructure development.We explore:The approach Gravitics takes in developing scalable station modulesThe market potential for free-flying stations and the impact of new launch vehicle capabilitiesOperator vs builder model in space stationsChallenges in scaling manufacturing and testing for space environmentsThe future of artificial gravity and its importance for long-term space habitationAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro & Epsilon ad02:04 - Colin's background03:23 - Colin's first business venture04:02 - Why start a space station business?05:25 - Evolution of the Gravitics's vision06:57 - Zero G modules07:36 - Business model08:26 - Why not operate modules?10:04 - How do you perceive the market opportunity for free-flying space stations?18:19 - Design decisions22:25 - Turning a competitor into a customer25:02 - Gravitics's approach vs existing providers26:14 - Is there enough capital and investors to sustain this market?30:26 - Countries creating their own launch capabilities33:24 - StarMax35:44 - Insourcing vs outsourcing36:52 - Scaling manufacturing40:05 - Testing42:50 - Technical challengers that keep Colin up at night44:42 - Commercial and government traction48:34 - Long-term view50:09 - ETA for Elysium?50:35 - Who's going to play Colin in the future movie about Gravitics? • Show notes •Gravitic's website — https://www.gravitics.com/Gravitic's socials — https://twitter.com/graviticsincColin's socials — https://twitter.com/colindoughanMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder guest is Tina Ghataore, Chief Strategy and Revenue Officer at Aerospacelab as well as CEO of Aerospacelab N.A. With a background in aerospace engineering and extensive experience in business development and strategy, Tina has been instrumental in taking products and services to market in both large and small companies.Aerospacelab is a Belgium-based company specializing in satellite platforms and components. Our conversation with Tina covers the fascinating world of satellite technology and Aerospacelab's role in it. We exploreThe vision of founder, Benoît Deper, and the company's growth over the past six yearsApproach to building and launching satellitesThe significance of vertical integrationChallenges and opportunities in the commercial and government satellite marketsThe role of Aerospacelab North America in expanding capabilitiesAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:04 - About Tina and her path to Aerospacelab04:44 - Why Aerospacelab?06:24 - Aerospacelab's history and Tina's division09:38 - Why does Aerospacelab need a division focused on North American clients?12:20 - Market opportunity and distinguishing from their competitors17:29 - Gauging SpaceX's long-term bus desires19:44 - Current and future product roadmap23:53 - How is Aerospacelab currently building satellites27:43 - Aerospacelab's max satellite capacity31:49 - Customer base36:41 - How is Aerospacelab funded?39:15 - 10 year vision42:06 - Space in the Middle East50:32 - Startups that Tina is excited about53:54 - What does Tina do for fun? • Show notes •Aerospacelab's website — https://www.aerospacelab.com/Aerospacelab's socials — https://twitter.com/aerospacelab_Tina's socials — https://twitter.com/Tina_GhataoreMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we feature Kate Kelly, Director of Space and Emerging Programs at BWXT, an 8,000-person firm that specializes in delivering nuclear reactors and components for the Navy, commercial nuclear industry, and advanced technologies. Kate shares her journey into the nuclear and space industry, providing insights into the advancements and challenges faced by BWXT. With a background in chemical engineering, Kate has been with BWXT for over a decade, contributing to significant projects like small modular reactors and space nuclear propulsion systems.Our conversation with Kate covers the world of space nuclear technology and BWXT's role in it. We also discuss:Kate's unconventional path into the nuclear industry and BWXTThe significance of the DARPA Draco Phase 2 Award and its impact on space nuclear propulsionThe role of nuclear thermal propulsion in future explorationChallenges and milestones in developing nuclear technology for spaceRegulatory processes and safety considerations for nuclear systemsAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:25 - How Kate ended up at BWXT and pursuing nuclear03:47 - Quick rundown on BWXT04:34 - What has made Kate stay at BWXT for her whole career?06:50 - Director of space and emerging programs08:02 - For All Mankind and how nuclear propulsion works11:29 - First spacecraft to use nuclear propulsion12:51 - Milestones14:33 - What does nuclear propulsion solve?16:25 - What kind of work is BWXT doing on the power side when it comes to space?19:46 - Possible scenarios for nuclear power solutions on Earth21:38 - Long-term value behind BWXT's tech23:19 - The size of Kate's division24:45 - How does regulation work for nuclear technologies in space?27:40 - State of nuclear today and how long until it becomes commercialized30:38 - BWXT post successful demonstration prediction32:03 - Safety and combatting public perception on nuclear34:54 - How BWXT tests their propulsion systems37:24 - Competitors38:57 - How does BWXT compete against faster and more agile startups?41:34 - Nuclear for space in 10 years43:16 - What Kate does with her free time • Show notes •BWXT's website — https://www.bwxt.com/what-we-do/advanced-technologies/BWXT's socials — https://twitter.com/BWXTMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Fresh off of a $95M Series B funding round, this week we bring back Ian Cinnamon, CEO of Apex, on to the show. Ian, along with his co-founder Max Benassi, started Apex to address the bottleneck in satellite bus manufacturing. Apex is revolutionizing the small satellite bus market with its productized approach and rapid manufacturing capabilities. Our conversation explores Ian's journey from concept to scaling production, including:The Series B funding round and its implicationsApex's mission to become the leading supplier of satellite busesChallenges and strategies in scaling productionImportance of maintaining a product-focused modelInsights into the evolving satellite bus marketThe future vision for ApexAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro & 100th episode!02:42 - Apex origin story03:59 - Changes between funding rounds05:12 - Key factors in raising $95m06:40 - Financing needs of Apex07:35 - Current fundraising environment09:07 - Market opportunity of satellite buses10:55 - Is there serious demand for buses if you take out Starlink?16:05 - Winning niche for contracts17:53 - How Apex separates itself from competitors19:27 - SpaceX's bus building capabilities21:04 - Plans beyond LEO22:06 - Apex naming scheme23:49 - Mission 128:23 - First expectations for Mission 130:10 - Mission 1 timeline32:24 - Combatting the unreliability of the current state of launch37:03 - Balancing Apex's needs and the government's40:42 - Impending government contract win?41:53 - Why Apex built an e-commerce workflow44:22 - Scaling48:09 - Team size and expansion goals at Apex49:34 - What kind of capital would Apex need to be self-sustainable51:56 - Advice for prospective founders53:15 - Long-term vision, 10 years out55:53 - Who is playing Ian in the movie about Apex? • Show notes •Apex's website — https://www.apexspace.com/Apex's socials — https://twitter.com/ApexSpacecraftIan's socials — https://twitter.com/IanCinnamonMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

There aren't many dedicated space economists out there, but today we're lucky enough to be joined by one. This week's Pathfinder guest is Pierre Lionnet, Research and Managing Director at Eurospace, who shares his critical and thought-provoking insights into the space economy. Pierre, with a background in engineering and finance, has spent 30 years analyzing and providing data-driven perspectives for the space industry. He's also not afraid to ruffle feathers or challenge conventional thinking with his views.Eurospace, a non-profit trade association, focuses on delivering analytics and independent assessments to its members. Our conversation delves into Pierre's critical perspective on the space economy and the industry's current dynamics. We also explore:Forecasting the economy over the last decade and potential overestimationsImpact of increased mass in orbit General misconceptions about the industry Sustainability of the current startup environmentFuture of private investment and commercialization in spaceAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:38 - The Space Economist02:50 - Space industry over 30 years04:56 - What sparked Pierre's passion for space economics07:39 - Previous economists before Pierre10:43 - Pierre's team at Eurospace11:15 - Common misconceptions about the industry13:36 - Concerning and interesting trends in the industry18:53 - How big is the industry today?21:43 - Gaps in estimates25:46 - Negative effects of inaccurate estimates28:26 - Current view on the startup market and future predictions34:28 - US vs European startup ecosystem35:32 - How Pierre would invest his capital38:35 - Challenges of commercialization and launch costs44:45 - Is there a viable business model around Starlink?48:14 - Business case for the Moon50:31 - What causes a break in interest and passion in investors?55:27 - Overlooked or undervalued areas of the market58:08 - What startup would Pierre work at if he had to choose one?01:00:57 - Space leaders that Pierre follows01:04:02 - Advice for making sure the space economy continues to grow in the right way01:06:41 - What does Pierre do for fun? • Show notes •Eurospace website — https://eurospace.org/Pierre's socials — https://twitter.com/LionnetPierreMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms.1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

It's not every day you get to hear space industry perspectives from a former Hollywood talent agent turned investor. Today we're joined by Mike Palank, General Partner at MaC Venture Capital, who shares his career path and insights into the world of VC. Mike, with a background in the entertainment industry, including working at WME as a talent agent, with Will Smith and co-founding MaC Venture Capital, brings a unique perspective on identifying talent and investing in innovative startups.MaC Venture Capital, founded in 2019, focuses on early-stage investments, emphasizing diversity and unique backgrounds among its partners and portfolio. Our conversation delves into Mike's strategic vision and track record. We also explore:The transition from talent agent to venture capitalist and the skills that overlapKey investment areas within aerospace, defense, and diverse tech sectorsThe importance of diversity in the venture capital industry and how it impacts investment decisionsWhat's next in space investingAnd much more... • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:56 - Mike's background07:23 - From talent agency to VC11:07 - Spotting talent13:33 - MaC's structure, investment thesis, and thoughts about space26:00 - How to get up to speed on new industries and the state of startups in the current market as an investor33:07 - Notable investments44:02 - Common founder mistakes51:24 - Mike's view on diversity in the space industry57:22 - Hyped and overhyped sectors in the market • Show notes •MaC Venture Capital website — https://macventurecapital.com/Mike's socials — https://twitter.com/mpalank101Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Ever wanted to hear the firsthand experience of a New Shepard astronaut? Well, today we're joined by Mason Angel, General Partner at Industrious Ventures, who was on Blue Origin's most recent flight to space. Mason, with a background deeply rooted in industrial sectors like GE and Linde through his family, shares his unique journey and insights into investing in legacy industries, focusing on aerospace and defense.Industrious Ventures, founded over four years ago, aims to revitalize these often-overlooked sectors by leveraging innovative technologies and substantial expertise. Our conversation delves into Mason's strategic vision and track record. We also explore:The impact of a spaceflight experience and a renewed perspective on space tourism and the commercial space industryKey investment areas within legacy industriesFuture missions and the commercial potential of spaceAnd much more… • Chapters •00:38 - Mason and Industrious Ventures01:37 - Family expertise02:33 - What is a legacy industry?04:11 - Being a crew member of Blue Origin's Shepard06:35 - Experience vs expectation of going into space07:45 - What's the moment where you are not allowed to get off anymore?09:04 - Training11:28 - Weightlessness13:37 - How does Industrious differ from other firms?15:43 - State of space investment18:45 - Why is there room for multiple launch companies?19:54 - Investing in Stoke & Ursa Major21:53 - Starship's economic impact23:14 - Why is interest in the Moon increasing and is Mason thinking about investing in those companies?24:57 - AstroForge26:15 - Resources beyond He327:16 - Space stations today31:40 - How has going to space affected Mason's perspective on the business of space?33:00 - Investing beyond space35:30 - Areas of the market that are underhyped36:43 - Technologies that don't exist today that will in 10 years38:24 - Prediction: Starship's first commercial launch40:35 - What are LPs looking for from GPs today?42:37 - If Mason wasn't doing space, what else would he be doing • Show notes •Industrious Ventures website — https://www.industrious.vc/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Ray Allensworth, Spacecraft Program Director at Firefly Aerospace. Ray, who has a previous background with major aerospace names like Raytheon and Northrop, helps lead Blue Ghost, Firefly's lunar lander program designed to deliver scientific and commercial payloads to the surface of the Moon. The company is currently on track to be the next commercial lunar lander on the Moon with its planned launch in November aiming for the elusive 100% flawless mission which has not yet been achieved by any commercial entity.Our conversation delves into the comprehensive capabilities of Firefly as an end-to-end space transportation company, the intricacies of the Blue Ghost program, and the significance of lunar exploration. We also explore:The origins and objectives of Blue GhostTechnical milestones and challengesThe economic and strategic importance of lunar landersThe role of Firefly in the broader context of NASA's Artemis programFuture missions and the commercial opportunity on the moonAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:37 Firefly overview01:27 Blue Ghost03:02 How Ray got to Firefly and her background04:22 Building a space company in Texas05:18 What is the importance of returning to the moon?07:01 National security interest in the Moon08:20 Viability of developing products for the Moon09:50 Current moon landing customers and where Ray sees growth11:04 Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) Program12:26 Most promising commercial opportunity on the Moon14:43 Why is it still so hard to land on the Moon?16:58 How is the Blue Ghost Architecture different from other lunar landers?19:54 Technical milestones, team, and launch for Blue Ghost21:01 Most important challenges to overcome for Mission 123:04 Powering beyond solar23:54 Testing for the lunar environment28:29 What risks keep Ray up at night?29:52 Customer goals for Mission 131:20 The international market35:44 Commercial landing on the dark side of the Moon36:53 What's next after CLPS?37:47 Blue Ghost profitability39:58 Firefly's role in Artemis program41:37 Is sample return in the future plan?42:03 Press bomb prep43:17 Is the Moon your calling?44:54 What would you send to the Moon?46:22 Ray's favorite place to eat in Texas • Show notes •Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamFirefly's Blue Ghost website — https://fireflyspace.com/blue-ghost/Payload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Jed McCaleb, Founder, and Max Haot, CEO, the leaders behind Vast, a company pioneering the development of commercial space stations. Jed, a seasoned software entrepreneur, and Max, a veteran in space and internet ventures, bring their unique expertise to the ambitious goal of advancing human habitation in space.Our conversation covers the critical aspects of creating economically viable space stations, the strategic role of life support systems, and the significance of reducing transportation costs. We also explore:Space station economics, pros/cons of competitionMilitary opportunities and sensitivities in space station useIntegration of Launcher post-acquisitionChallenges and excitement of Haven One's launchVast's product roadmapAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:53 Jed's career path and creating Vast02:57 Balancing aspirations and making money04:57 Max's history building business and how he came to Vast08:49 Max's primary objective at Vast11:22 Jed's experience building a hardware company12:31 Market opportunity for a free flying space station15:20 Haven 119:17 Building components in house21:07 Materials use and construction safety23:03 Vast's approach vs competitors29:45 Importance of being first in the market31:41 Is the market large enough to sustain multiple station providers?33:25 Common misconceptions of space station investment38:02 Vast x SpaceX partnership40:55 Product roadmap43:22 Coinciding with Starship timelines45:06 Will Starship be converted into a space station?46:10 Fundraising47:09 Economics around Haven 151:37 Military applications53:30 Utilization after acquisition54:13 What excites you and keeps you up at night?• Show notes •Max's socials — https://twitter.com/maxhaotJed's socials — https://twitter.com/JedMcCalebMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamVast's website — https://www.vastspace.com/Payload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Sid Dixit, former CTO of Maxar and a seasoned leader in the space industry. Sid's career spans pivotal roles at Planet, Amazon, and Maxar, where he has been at the forefront of satellite technology, artificial intelligence, and geospatial data platforms.Our discussion delves into the transformative impact of generative AI and large language models on satellite imagery analysis, the evolving landscape of commercial and government demand for Earth observation data, and the potential commoditization of satellite imagery. We also explore:– The role of SpaceX and its impact on the LEO market– Challenges and opportunities for Earth observation startups– The future of satellite imagery quality and its market needs– Investment strategies within the industry– Promising Earth observation startupsThis episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, a cloud-based platform that supports a wide range of operational procedures requiring extreme efficiency and control. Innovative teams at NASA, Blue Origin, Redwire, and Firefly Aerospace use it to plan, execute, and automate their most complex workflows. • Chapters • • Show notes • Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece, comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/ • Chapters •00:00 Intro & Epsilon Ad01:24 Sid's journey from Planet, Amazon, and Maxar04:57 Sid's robotics work at Amazon07:24 How Sid got back into Earth observation08:21 Maxar's acquisition11:11 Advent and BCI's end goal13:20 State of Earth observation18:50 SpaceX's potential impact on LEO23:04 If SpaceX goes after remote sensing, what will happen to all the companies operating in LEO?25:37 Commercial demand28:31 Do you see imaging tech as improving marginally or step-wise?34:14 Will AI help open up the commercial market?41:05 Who's the winner when it comes to the use of models in EO?45:07 Will satellite imagery become commoditized?46:48 At what point will imaging quality improvements be enough?49:03 If you were managing $1m, how much of it would go to EO?51:20 EO startups to look out for52:54 Overview

This week on Pathfinder, we're joined by Sinead O'Sullivan, an economist and board member of the European Space Policy Institute. Sinead has had a unique career, from her early days in aerospace engineering in Northern Ireland to significant roles on Wall Street and at top academic institutions like Georgia Tech and Harvard. In her free time, she's written about space, economics, wine, and even music for publications such as the Financial Times, Vogue, and The New Yorker—because who doesn't love a little light writing and high-profile journalism to unwind?Our discussion explores the intricate dynamics of public vs. private funding in the space industry and the challenges posed by venture capital and institutional investments. In addition, we discuss:Capital destruction in new technologiesThe importance of institutional capital…if the industry can maintain its growthThe future of space financingThis episode is brought to you by Epsilon3, a cloud-based platform that supports a wide range of operational procedures requiring extreme efficiency and control. Innovative teams at NASA, Blue Origin, Redwire, and Firefly Aerospace use it to plan, execute, and automate their most complex workflows. • Chapters •00:00 Intro & Epsilon ad01:16 Sinead's background07:56 Engineer or Economist?09:49 Sinead, the writer12:14 Public vs private funding sources20:00 The sustainability of current private-first funding mechanisms28:14 Role of DoD in supporting startups46:39 What will make institutional capital take the space industry seriously?55:31 Space financing in 10 years01:00 Irish modern art • Show notes •Sinead's socials — https://twitter.com/SineadOS1Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder features Chris Taylor, CEO and founder of Aalyria, a Google spinout that specializes in advanced connectivity solutions. The company is developing what could be game changing free-space optics hardware and network orchestration software to meaningfully change communication speed and efficiency across air, space, land, and sea. It's core products include:Tightbeam: An advanced free-space optics technology which uses coherent light (laser technology) to transmit data at high speeds over long distances without physical connections like cables.Spacetime: A SaaS platform that serves as a network management system that can control and direct data flows across different types of infrastructure, including satellites, ground stations, and other communication devices, effectively making each component a node in a larger network (think: traffic controller for communications). In this episode, we dissect:Free space optics 101Aalyria's origins as a Google spinoutDeep dive on core technologies and challengesStrategic commercial applications • Chapters •00:00 Intro00:32 Chris's path to Aalyria02:15 What is Aalyria building?04:52 How do different space assets communicate with each other today?05:59 What is optical communication?07:58 The coherent light free space optics (FSO) program10:50 Why did Google sell their optical comms tech?12:56 Why is this so important?15:15 Benefits of Tightbeam over existing free space optics, coherent vs non-coherent space optics21:22 Customer profiles25:41 Real-world use case28:02 Use case in autonomous fleet navigation29:44 Fleet of autonomous taxis30:53 Size of Aalyria's addressable market35:34 Commercialization prospects38:32 Work with DIU (Defense Innovation Unit)40:01 Competitors42:25 Limits of technology44:22 Funding47:00 10-year vision50:34 What does Chris do for fun? • Show notes •Aalyria's website — https://www.aalyria.com/Aalyria's socials — https://twitter.com/AalyriaTechMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

The first single-stage-to-orbit (SSTO) space plane? That's exactly what we're discussing on this week's Pathfinder podcast. We interview Livingston Holder, cofounder and CTO of Radian Aerospace, which is developing a fully reusable space plane designed for horizontal launch and landing.SSTO? Essentially, SSTO vehicles are designed to reach orbit using a single stage without discarding any hardware.We explore Livingston's background as a former USAF astronaut as well as the Seattle-based startup's roadmap to build the world's first SSTO space transport vehicle. In addition, we cover:Radian's technology advantageCultural and operational shifts in space missionsMarket positioning of SSTOFuture applications and impact on space opsAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). • Chapters •00:00 Intro & ITA Ad02:12 Why space?04:45 The astronaut program06:06 Culture of NASA vs AF astronauts07:29 Life after the program09:24 Livingston's path to Radian12:39 What is Radian building?16:05 Unique take off18:17 Who designed the sled?19:36 Single-Stage-to-Orbit23:26 Nozzle extensions25:10 Why now?29:12 How Livingston met his cofounder33:19 Where is Radian today?38:19 First flight test projection39:23 Capabilities and market positioning43:19 Hypersonic travel47:32 Government and commercial traction49:41 Direct competitors52:15 How expensive is it to build Radian's spaceplanes?54:43 What does Livingston do for fun? • Show notes •Radian's website — https://www.radianaerospace.com/Radian's socials — https://twitter.com/RadianSpaceMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspacePathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Right on the heels of their $90M funding round, this week's Pathfinder spotlights Varda and its cofounders, Will Bruey (CEO) and Delian Asparouhov (President). The LA-based startup harnesses microgravity for pharmaceutical development and manufacturing. In its latest mission, the company successfully processed ritonavir, a crucial antiviral drug utilized in HIV/AIDS treatment.In addition to Varda's origin story and the Series B fundraise, Mo, Will, and Delian discuss:Varda's commercialization strategyThe business case for in-space manufacturingThe significance of the W-1 missionAdapting to the regulatory environmentMicrogravity formulation optimizationAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). • Chapters •00:00 Intro & ITA Ad01:21 Varda's origin05:40 What are you building?08:17 What does space have to offer for manufacturing?12:00 The business case for space manufacturing18:02 What drugs have been improved in space?19:13 What happened to ZBLAN?20:54 R&D for manufacturing in space22:34 The W-1 mission29:05 Customer traction30:38 Where does Varda's business risk lie?38:22 Competitive landscape39:49 Potential partnerships42:48 Regulatory learnings45:30 The Series B46:57 Use cases beyond pharma48:19 Space stations55:35 Other companies Will is excited about57:22 Where would Delian invest his last space investment? • Show notes •Varda's website — https://www.varda.com/The Return of Ritonavir Paper: https://www.varda.com/papers/1711063046-return-of-the-ritonavir-a-study-on-the-stability-of-pharmaceuticals-processed-in-orbit-and-returned-to-earth.pdfWill's socials — https://twitter.com/WillBrueyDelian's socials — https://twitter.com/zebulgarMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Dan Wright is no typical founder. With a formidable background at software powerhouses like AppDynamics and DataRobot, Dan has shifted his focus towards bridging the technological gap in edge computing with his latest venture, Armada. As the world's first full-stack edge computing platform, Armada integrates computing and AI capabilities directly where data is generated.Dan started Armada after recognizing a significant shift in data generation to the edge and the inadequate response of centralized clouds to the demands of heavy data producers in sectors like oil and gas and manufacturing.In today's episode, Dan discusses the origin story of Armada and its strategic partnership with Starlink, which allows it to extend its edge computing capabilities to remote locations. We also discuss:The impact of edge computingArmada's product suite and roadmapBridging the digital divideBuilding a business with SpaceXAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). • Chapters •00:00 Intro & ITA Ad01:11 What is Armada and why did you start the company?02:33 Adding hardware capabilities04:34 What is edge computing?07:00 75% of all data will be generated at the edge10:12 Serving remote corners of the world11:22 What kind of efficiency will edge computing be able to make?14:06 Armada x Starlink16:59 How did Armada build their relationship with Starlink?18:51 How did you convince SpaceX to work with you?20:30 Without Starlink, can Armada still be successful?22:11 Armada's product suite25:41 Creating demand for 3rd parties in the marketplace28:11 The Galleon30:44 Customer traction, targeting, and product in the field32:58 Armada's smallest but still relevant customer34:18 The competitive landscape36:13 Extreme testing for Galleon38:45 Capital raising41:38 What keeps Dan up at night43:17 Galleons but in space?44:47 10 year vision46:04 Dan's opinion on Starship's next flight test50:40 What does Dan do for fun? • Show notes •Armada's website — www.armada.aiDan's socials — https://twitter.com/danwrightSFMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on Wednesdays You can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week, we bring you our second installment of Pathfinder's special podcast series on the State of the Space Industry. As a reminder, you'll hear from two members of Payload's editorial staff on key trends, exclusive interviews, and insights shaping the industry.Today's episode explores EO & SatCom, featuring Payload's Research Director, Jack Kuhr, and Lead Reporter, Rachael Zisk. Highlights from the discussion include:EOEO market dynamics in 2023Public EO companies' trajectoryVC inclinations and startup viability in EOSpeculating on SpaceX's emerging EO ambitionsThe realities of commercial demandSatComThe SatCom market in 2023The impact of the Ukraine warExploration of direct to cell innovationsSpaceX's strategic movesInvestor sentiment and edge computing in SatComThis episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). Be sure to check out the Italian Pavilion  in South Hall (Booth 603) during Space Symposium! • Chapters •00:00 Intro & ITA Ad01:22 Jack's background02:21 Earth Observation market in 202304:41 State of the public EO06:23 Major fundraisers in 202307:51 EO startups securing venture capital14:20 Spire and BlackSky16:19 SpaceX and EO18:59 Consolidation in the EO market22:37 Rachel's background23:30 Satcom in 202324:51 Ukraine & SatCom26:45 Direct to cell technology28:51 Starlink's impact33:22 Edge computing35:30 Investing in SatCom39:47 FCC and regulations42:17 Predictions for SatCom in 2024 • Show notes •Jack's socials — https://twitter.com/JackKuhrRachael's socials — https://twitter.com/RachaelZiskMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Pathfinder is shaking things up for the next two weeks with a special pod series on the State of the Space Industry. In each episode, you'll hear from two members of Payload's editorial staff on key trends, exclusive interviews, and insights shaping the industry. This week? Launch & OSAM, featuring Payload's Managing Editor Jacqueline Feldscher and Senior Space Reporter Tim Fernholz. Highlights from the discussion include:LaunchLaunch cadence + increasing demandRole of launch providers and competitionChallenges including space debris and regulationAdvancements in reusabilityOSAMThe OSAM chicken-and-egg problemThe role of government partnerships and regulationsKey technologies required for OSAMRecent developments and upcoming missions, including Northrop Grumman's MRV mission, Astroscale's ADRAS-J mission, and SpaceX's Starship refueling demonstrationsAnd much more…This episode is brought to you by the Italian Trade Agency (ITA). Be sure to check out the Italian Pavilion  in South Hall (Booth 603) during Space Symposium! • Chapters •00:00 - Intro & ITA Ad01:35 - The state of launch in 202304:14 - Peter Beck & Rocket Lab06:31 - Tory Bruno & ULA11:43 - Tim Ellis & Relativity Space14:09 - Make or break in launch15:27 - Government's perspective on launch outside SpaceX17:46 - What Jacqueline is excited for in 202419:07 - Blue Origin & ULA21:41 - Tim Fernholz!22:28 - OSAM. What is it and what companies fall underneath the OSAM umbrella?24:22 - Core capabilities25:19 - OSAM market in 202325:59 - Challenges of building27:10 - Gaps in technology29:53 - Should startups be investing in OSAM technology?32:21 - How integral is the government in developing OSAM?34:13 - Who is setting standards?35:42 - OSAM 137:56 - What Tim is excited for in 2024 • Show notes •Jacqueline's socials — https://twitter.com/jacqfeldscherTim's socials — https://twitter.com/TimFernholzMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 4) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week, we're going live from Austin, TX, at Payload's inaugural event, “The Ultimate High Ground: The Role of Space in National Security,” held during SXSW. Our episode features a fireside chat with Dan Goldin, the longest-serving NASA Administrator, from April 1992 to November 2001. Dan is known for leading NASA's resurgence during one of its most challenging periods following the Cold War. His tenure was characterized by the philosophy of "faster, better, cheaper," which established the foundation for the modern space industry.We spend a considerable amount of time discussing Dan's contributions outside NASA, including his tenure at TRW and his efforts at Cerberus, a leading private equity firm that is now heavily involved in aerospace and defense. Additionally, we explore:The next Sputnik momentTechnology transfer between NASA and the DoDThe challenges of the space industry todayThe opportunity in the space national security marketAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Introduction01:44 - Military and intelligence programs at TRW03:49 - Potential unforeseen gaps in technology06:35 - 1958 Space Act10:17 - Life at Cerberus14:12 - Common missteps from startups today17:35 - Do startups understand physics?19:29 - Overcrowding in parts of the market21:18 - Where the opportunity is today26:12 - National security…more than just weapons28:54 - Directed energy33:33 - What question is not being asked more often35:19 - Cislunar space38:24 - When will we land on the Moon?38:50 - Are we underestimating or overestimating China's capabilities?39:21 - When will we land on Mars? • Show notes •Dan's' socials — https://twitter.com/dansgoldinMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder podcast features Nate Hamet, cofounder and CEO of Quindar, a startup attempting to dramatically change satellite operations. Quindar's software suite simplifies satellite command and control, enhancing health, security, and connectivity management. With a rich background in satellite operations at notable companies like OneWeb and Orbital Effects, Nate's team uses their expertise to reduce human intervention and increase efficiency in satellite constellations. In addition, we discuss:Quindar's origin storyHow mission management software simplifies satellite operationsFully autonomous satellite solutionsThe importance of space cybersecurityAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Intro01:22 - What is Quindar and what are you building?03:14 - What is satellite command and control?05:47 - Nate's background and how he started Quindar10:04 - Why is cyber security important?11:34 - How does the Mission Management Software simplify the operation of satellite constellations?19:55 - Managing data21:34 - How far away are we from fully autonomous solutions?23:30 - How does Quindar make money?25:08 - Use cases beyond space?25:57 - Commercial and government traction27:37 - What is Quindar's ideal customer?29:14 - The onboarding experience33:01 - Location and team35:51 - KSAT integration38:11 - Quindar's plan from recent funding39:59 - What to look out for in the future40:57 - The Star Trek vision41:46 - What is Nate doing when he's not building Quindar? • Show notes •Quindar's website — https://www.quindar.space/Nate' socials — https://twitter.com/NateHametMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

Did you ever think that solar power generation in space could be 10x cheaper, 20% more efficient, and extend operational life to over 50 years? Well, that's what the Arizona-based startup Solestial believes it can achieve with its silicon cell technology. We bring in CEO and cofounder Stan Herasimenka for his first-ever podcast to discuss the unique challenges and differences between terrestrial and space solar cells, and the technological advancements his company is making to produce radiation-hardened, thin, and flexible solar cells for space use.Stan and Mo also cover:Market potential for solar technologyReengineering long-established technologySolestial's business model and scaling plansFuture trends in space solarAnd much more…• Chapters •00:00 - Intro00:36 - What are you building?00:59 - What prompted Stan to start Solestial?01:57 - Terrestrial vs extraterrestrial solar cells05:10 - How long would a terrestrial solar cell last in space?08:27 - Who are the main players?11:02 - What is III-V?12:25 - Supply/demand gap16:03 - Core product offering18:26 - What is the reason not to have a turnkey solution?19:53 - Cost of activeness vs COTS23:40 - Target cost of cells24:30 - Why would a customer pay more for a premium solar cell?27:37 - Self-curing radiation damage30:52 - Perovskite cells33:20 - Manufacturing and scaling36:18 - Where is Solestial based?37:01 - Customer traction38:39 - Team makeup40:18 - Financing plans?41:51 - When will Solestial have their first array in space?43:13 - What does Stan do when he's not talking about solar cells?44:09 - Other companies Stan is excited about • Show notes •Solestial's website — https://solestial.com/Stan's socials — https://www.linkedin.com/in/stan-herasimenka-5932561b/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/

This week's Pathfinder features Lori Garver, a pioneering force in the space industry known for her instrumental role in propelling NASA into the modern era of commercial spaceflight. The former Deputy Administrator of NASA joins us today to discuss how partnerships with private space firms helped to shift the landscape from government-dominated missions to a thriving commercial space sector. In addition, Lori and Mo discuss:NASA's budget and prioritiesTiming of Artemis and MarsNASA as a Cold War instrumentMuch needed policy changesAnd much more… • Chapters •00:00 - Introduction01:00 - Commercial partnerships during Lori's tenure05:55 - Why did you write your book?08:29 - The COTs program10:42 - Support for the Constellation program12:44 - Is the SLS part of the future of Artemis?15:40 - Feasibility of NASA's Artemis plan19:00 - NASA's CLPS program22:40 - View on SpaceX's launch dominance25:52 - Future of human spaceflight27:05 - Does NASA risk losing relevance?29:25 - How does great power competition affect NASA?32:48 - Policies Lori is championing34:14 - What prompted Lori to work in the industry?38:40 - What Lori is working on today45:33 - Viability of asteroid mining49:18 - Lori's bets on next Moon/Mars landing50:52 - What does Lori do for fun? • Show notes •Lori's book — https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Gravity-Quest-Transform-Launch/dp/1635767709Lori's socials — https://twitter.com/lori_garverMo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload's socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 19,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We're also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world.Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we're a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing five media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday4) Polaris, our weekly policy briefing, publishes weekly on Tuesdays 5) Payload Research, our weekly research and analysis piece,  comes out on WednesdaysYou can sign up for all of our publications here: https://payloadspace.com/subscribe/