Podcasts about cloudflare workers

Wes rebuilt his personal site from Gatsby to a modern stack using Waku, React Server Components, and Cloudflare Workers — all while keeping the same design. Scott and Wes break down the pain points with Next.js, MDX, image handling, caching, and the custom setup that now powers a blazing-fast blog. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 01:03 Barcelona Conference. 04:09 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 04:33 Existing stack, goodbye to Gatsby. 06:11 New stack, the goals for moving. 06:56 So what is the new stack? 08:32 Challenges with NextJS. 08:58 Problems with plugins. 09:30 Problems with dynamic imports. 10:21 Problems with Cloudflare deployment. 12:37 Landing on Waku. 13:59 Hot Tips functionality updates. 16:30 Blog Posts + JavaScript Notes. 17:09 Moving from Gatsby. 19:03 Page speeds. 19:29 Removing nav resizing process. 21:03 Writing custom MDX plugins. 23:28 Hosting. 24:08 Why is the build so fast? 28:01 Pricing. 32:25 Caching. 34:49 Migration errors. 36:37 CSS. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

Signals has been gaining in popularity the past few years for its fine-grained approach to reactivity in the browser, and a new high performance implementation called Alien Signals has landed in Vue.js. It offers significant performance improvements to complex applications with lots of data changes, and has been extended so it can be used in other JS-based libraries besides Vue. The React team announces that React Compiler has reached release candidate (RC) stage and is nearing stable release territory. React Compiler is a build-time tool that optimizes React apps through automatic memoization so devs don't have to worry about including useMemo() and useCallback() hooks in their code.RedwoodSDK, which had some cryptic messaging about its future last month, has unveiled more of the story on its new website this month. It's aiming to be part of the “personal software revolution” by providing a React framework for Cloudflare, offering built in access to Cloudflare Workers, databases and storage, queues, AI, and more.News:Paige - RedwoodSDK details revealedJack - Alien SignalsTJ - React Compiler RCBonus News:Everybody wants to buy ChromeWhat Makes Us Happy this Week:Paige - Severance TV series season 2Jack - Grilling seasonTJ - Detroit grows in population for the first time in decadesThanks as always to our sponsor, the Blue Collar Coder channel on YouTube. You can join us in our Discord channel, explore our website and reach us via email, or talk to us on X, Bluesky, or YouTube.Front-end Fire websiteBlue Collar Coder on YouTubeBlue Collar Coder on DiscordReach out via emailTweet at us on X @front_end_fireFollow us on Bluesky @front-end-fire.comSubscribe to our YouTube channel @Front-EndFirePodcast

Brandon Liu is an open source developer and creator of the Protomaps basemap project. We talk about how static maps help developers build sites that last, the PMTiles file format, the role of OpenStreetMap, and his experience funding and running an open source project full time. Protomaps Protomaps PMTiles (File format used by Protomaps) Self-hosted slippy maps, for novices (like me) Why Deploy Protomaps on a CDN User examples Flickr Pinball Map Toilet Map Related projects OpenStreetMap (Dataset protomaps is based on) Mapzen (Former company that released details on what to display based on zoom levels) Mapbox GL JS (Mapbox developed source available map rendering library) MapLibre GL JS (Open source fork of Mapbox GL JS) Other links HTTP range requests (MDN) Hilbert curve Transcript You can help correct transcripts on GitHub. Intro [00:00:00] Jeremy: I'm talking to Brandon Liu. He's the creator of Protomaps, which is a way to easily create and host your own maps. Let's get into it. [00:00:09] Brandon: Hey, so thanks for having me on the podcast. So I'm Brandon. I work on an open source project called Protomaps. What it really is, is if you're a front end developer and you ever wanted to put maps on a website or on a mobile app, then Protomaps is sort of an open source solution for doing that that I hope is something that's way easier to use than, um, a lot of other open source projects. Why not just use Google Maps? [00:00:36] Jeremy: A lot of people are gonna be familiar with Google Maps. Why should they worry about whether something's open source? Why shouldn't they just go and use the Google maps API? [00:00:47] Brandon: So Google Maps is like an awesome thing it's an awesome product. Probably one of the best tech products ever right? And just to have a map that tells you what restaurants are open and something that I use like all the time especially like when you're traveling it has all that data. And the most amazing part is that it's free for consumers but it's not necessarily free for developers. Like if you wanted to embed that map onto your website or app, that usually has an API cost which still has a free tier and is affordable. But one motivation, one basic reason to use open source is if you have some project that doesn't really fit into that pricing model. You know like where you have to pay the cost of Google Maps, you have a side project, a nonprofit, that's one reason. But there's lots of other reasons related to flexibility or customization where you might want to use open source instead. Protomaps examples [00:01:49] Jeremy: Can you give some examples where people have used Protomaps and where that made sense for them? [00:01:56] Brandon: I follow a lot of the use cases and I also don't know about a lot of them because I don't have an API where I can track a hundred percent of the users. Some of them use the hosted version, but I would say most of them probably use it on their own infrastructure. One of the cool projects I've been seeing is called Toilet Map. And what toilet map is if you're in the UK and you want find a public restroom then it maps out, sort of crowdsourced all of the public restrooms. And that's important for like a lot of people if they have health issues, they need to find that information. And just a lot of different projects in the same vein. There's another one called Pinball Map which is sort of a hobby project to find all the pinball machines in the world. And they wanted to have a customized map that fit in with their theme of pinball. So these sorts of really cool indie projects are the ones I'm most excited about. Basemaps vs Overlays [00:02:57] Jeremy: And if we talk about, like the pinball map as an example, there's this concept of a basemap and then there's the things that you lay on top of it. What is a basemap and then is the pinball locations is that part of it or is that something separate? [00:03:12] Brandon: It's usually something separate. The example I usually use is if you go to a real estate site, like Zillow, you'll open up the map of Seattle and it has a bunch of pins showing all the houses, and then it has some information beneath it. That information beneath it is like labels telling, this neighborhood is Capitol Hill, or there is a park here. But all that information is common to a lot of use cases and it's not specific to real estate. So I think usually that's the distinction people use in the industry between like a base map versus your overlay. The overlay is like the data for your product or your company while the base map is something you could get from Google or from Protomaps or from Apple or from Mapbox that kind of thing. PMTiles for hosting the basemap and overlays [00:03:58] Jeremy: And so Protomaps in particular is responsible for the base map, and that information includes things like the streets and the locations of landmarks and things like that. Where is all that information coming from? [00:04:12] Brandon: So the base map information comes from a project called OpenStreetMap. And I would also, point out that for Protomaps as sort of an ecosystem. You can also put your overlay data into a format called PMTiles, which is sort of the core of what Protomaps is. So it can really do both. It can transform your data into the PMTiles format which you can host and you can also host the base map. So you kind of have both of those sides of the product in one solution. [00:04:43] Jeremy: And so when you say you have both are you saying that the PMTiles file can have, the base map in one file and then you would have the data you're laying on top in another file? Or what are you describing there? [00:04:57] Brandon: That's usually how I recommend to do it. Oftentimes there'll be sort of like, a really big basemap 'cause it has all of that data about like where the rivers are. Or while, if you want to put your map of toilets or park benches or pickleball courts on top, that's another file. But those are all just like assets you can move around like JSON or CSV files. Statically Hosted [00:05:19] Jeremy: And I think one of the things you mentioned was that your goal was to make Protomaps or the, the use of these PMTiles files easy to use. What does that look like for, for a developer? I wanna host a map. What do I actually need to, to put on my servers? [00:05:38] Brandon: So my usual pitch is that basically if you know how to use S3 or cloud storage, that you know how to deploy a map. And that, I think is the main sort of differentiation from most open source projects. Like a lot of them, they call themselves like, like some sort of self-hosted solution. But I've actually avoided using the term self-hosted because I think in most cases that implies a lot of complexity. Like you have to log into a Linux server or you have to use Kubernetes or some sort of Docker thing. What I really want to emphasize is the idea that, for Protomaps, it's self-hosted in the same way like CSS is self-hosted. So you don't really need a service from Amazon to host the JSON files or CSV files. It's really just a static file. [00:06:32] Jeremy: When you say static file that means you could use any static web host to host your HTML file, your JavaScript that actually renders the map. And then you have your PMTiles files, and you're not running a process or anything, you're just putting your files on a static file host. [00:06:50] Brandon: Right. So I think if you're a developer, you can also argue like a static file server is a server. It's you know, it's the cloud, it's just someone else's computer. It's really just nginx under the hood. But I think static storage is sort of special. If you look at things like static site generators, like Jekyll or Hugo, they're really popular because they're a commodity or like the storage is a commodity. And you can take your blog, make it a Jekyll blog, hosted on S3. One day, Amazon's like, we're charging three times as much so you can move it to a different cloud provider. And that's all vendor neutral. So I think that's really the special thing about static storage as a primitive on the web. Why running servers is a problem for resilience [00:07:36] Jeremy: Was there a prior experience you had? Like you've worked with maps for a very long time. Were there particular difficulties you had where you said I just gotta have something that can be statically hosted? [00:07:50] Brandon: That's sort of exactly why I got into this. I've been working sort of in and around the map space for over a decade, and Protomaps is really like me trying to solve the same problem I've had over and over again in the past, just like once and forever right? Because like once this problem is solved, like I don't need to deal with it again in the future. So I've worked at a couple of different companies before, mostly as a contractor, for like a humanitarian nonprofit for a design company doing things like, web applications to visualize climate change. Or for even like museums, like digital signage for museums. And oftentimes they had some sort of data visualization component, but always sort of the challenge of how to like, store and also distribute like that data was something that there wasn't really great open source solutions. So just for map data, that's really what motivated that design for Protomaps. [00:08:55] Jeremy: And in those, those projects in the past, were those things where you had to run your own server, run your own database, things like that? [00:09:04] Brandon: Yeah. And oftentimes we did, we would spin up an EC2 instance, for maybe one client and then we would have to host this server serving map data forever. Maybe the client goes away, or I guess it's good for business if you can sign some sort of like long-term support for that client saying, Hey, you know, like we're done with a project, but you can pay us to maintain the EC2 server for the next 10 years. And that's attractive. but it's also sort of a pain, because usually what happens is if people are given the choice, like a developer between like either I can manage the server on EC2 or on Rackspace or Hetzner or whatever, or I can go pay a SaaS to do it. In most cases, businesses will choose to pay the SaaS. So that's really like what creates a sort of lock-in is this preference for like, so I have this choice between like running the server or paying the SaaS. Like businesses will almost always go and pay the SaaS. [00:10:05] Jeremy: Yeah. And in this case, you either find some kind of free hosting or low-cost hosting just to host your files and you upload the files and then you're good from there. You don't need to maintain anything. [00:10:18] Brandon: Exactly, and that's really the ideal use case. so I have some users these, climate science consulting agencies, and then they might have like a one-off project where they have to generate the data once, but instead of having to maintain this server for the lifetime of that project, they just have a file on S3 and like, who cares? If that costs a couple dollars a month to run, that's fine, but it's not like S3 is gonna be deprecated, like it's gonna be on an insecure version of Ubuntu or something. So that's really the ideal, set of constraints for using Protomaps. [00:10:58] Jeremy: Yeah. Something this also makes me think about is, is like the resilience of sites like remaining online, because I, interviewed, Kyle Drake, he runs Neocities, which is like a modern version of GeoCities. And if I remember correctly, he was mentioning how a lot of old websites from that time, if they were running a server backend, like they were running PHP or something like that, if you were to try to go to those sites, now they're like pretty much all dead because there needed to be someone dedicated to running a Linux server, making sure things were patched and so on and so forth. But for static sites, like the ones that used to be hosted on GeoCities, you can go to the internet archive or other websites and they were just files, right? You can bring 'em right back up, and if anybody just puts 'em on a web server, then you're good. They're still alive. Case study of news room preferring static hosting [00:11:53] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. One place that's kind of surprising but makes sense where this comes up, is for newspapers actually. Some of the users using Protomaps are the Washington Post. And the reason they use it, is not necessarily because they don't want to pay for a SaaS like Google, but because if they make an interactive story, they have to guarantee that it still works in a couple of years. And that's like a policy decision from like the editorial board, which is like, so you can't write an article if people can't view it in five years. But if your like interactive data story is reliant on a third party, API and that third party API becomes deprecated, or it changes the pricing or it, you know, it gets acquired, then your journalism story is not gonna work anymore. So I have seen really good uptake among local news rooms and even big ones to use things like Protomaps just because it makes sense for the requirements. Working on Protomaps as an open source project for five years [00:12:49] Jeremy: How long have you been working on Protomaps and the parts that it's made up of such as PMTiles? [00:12:58] Brandon: I've been working on it for about five years, maybe a little more than that. It's sort of my pandemic era project. But the PMTiles part, which is really the heart of it only came in about halfway. Why not make a SaaS? [00:13:13] Brandon: So honestly, like when I first started it, I thought it was gonna be another SaaS and then I looked at it and looked at what the environment was around it. And I'm like, uh, so I don't really think I wanna do that. [00:13:24] Jeremy: When, when you say you looked at the environment around it what do you mean? Why did you decide not to make it a SaaS? [00:13:31] Brandon: Because there already is a lot of SaaS out there. And I think the opportunity of making something that is unique in terms of those use cases, like I mentioned like newsrooms, was clear. Like it was clear that there was some other solution, that could be built that would fit these needs better while if it was a SaaS, there are plenty of those out there. And I don't necessarily think that they're well differentiated. A lot of them all use OpenStreetMap data. And it seems like they mainly compete on price. It's like who can build the best three column pricing model. And then once you do that, you need to build like billing and metrics and authentication and like those problems don't really interest me. So I think, although I acknowledge sort of the indie hacker ethos now is to build a SaaS product with a monthly subscription, that's something I very much chose not to do, even though it is for sure like the best way to build a business. [00:14:29] Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people can appreciate that perspective because it's, it's almost like we have SaaS overload, right? Where you have so many little bills for your project where you're like, another $5 a month, another $10 a month, or if you're a business, right? Those, you add a bunch of zeros and at some point it's just how many of these are we gonna stack on here? [00:14:53] Brandon: Yeah. And honestly. So I really think like as programmers, we're not really like great at choosing how to spend money like a $10 SaaS. That's like nothing. You know? So I can go to Starbucks and I can buy a pumpkin spice latte, and that's like $10 basically now, right? And it's like I'm able to make that consumer choice in like an instant just to spend money on that. But then if you're like, oh, like spend $10 on a SaaS that somebody put a lot of work into, then you're like, oh, that's too expensive. I could just do it myself. So I'm someone that also subscribes to a lot of SaaS products. and I think for a lot of things it's a great fit. Many open source SaaS projects are not easy to self host [00:15:37] Brandon: But there's always this tension between an open source project that you might be able to run yourself and a SaaS. And I think a lot of projects are at different parts of the spectrum. But for Protomaps, it's very much like I'm trying to move maps to being it is something that is so easy to run yourself that anyone can do it. [00:16:00] Jeremy: Yeah, and I think you can really see it with, there's a few SaaS projects that are successful and they're open source, but then you go to look at the self-hosting instructions and it's either really difficult to find and you find it, and then the instructions maybe don't work, or it's really complicated. So I think doing the opposite with Protomaps. As a user, I'm sure we're all appreciative, but I wonder in terms of trying to make money, if that's difficult. [00:16:30] Brandon: No, for sure. It is not like a good way to make money because I think like the ideal situation for an open source project that is open that wants to make money is the product itself is fundamentally complicated to where people are scared to run it themselves. Like a good example I can think of is like Supabase. Supabase is sort of like a platform as a service based on Postgres. And if you wanted to run it yourself, well you need to run Postgres and you need to handle backups and authentication and logging, and that stuff all needs to work and be production ready. So I think a lot of people, like they don't trust themselves to run database backups correctly. 'cause if you get it wrong once, then you're kind of screwed. So I think that fundamental aspect of the product, like a database is something that is very, very ripe for being a SaaS while still being open source because it's fundamentally hard to run. Another one I can think of is like tailscale, which is, like a VPN that works end to end. That's something where, you know, it has this networking complexity where a lot of developers don't wanna deal with that. So they'd happily pay, for tailscale as a service. There is a lot of products or open source projects that eventually end up just changing to becoming like a hosted service. Businesses going from open source to closed or restricted licenses [00:17:58] Brandon: But then in that situation why would they keep it open source, right? Like, if it's easy to run yourself well, doesn't that sort of cannibalize their business model? And I think that's really the tension overall in these open source companies. So you saw it happen to things like Elasticsearch to things like Terraform where they eventually change the license to one that makes it difficult for other companies to compete with them. [00:18:23] Jeremy: Yeah, I mean there's been a number of cases like that. I mean, specifically within the mapping community, one I can think of was Mapbox's. They have Mapbox gl. Which was a JavaScript client to visualize maps and they moved from, I forget which license they picked, but they moved to a much more restrictive license. I wonder what your thoughts are on something that releases as open source, but then becomes something maybe a little more muddy. [00:18:55] Brandon: Yeah, I think it totally makes sense because if you look at their business and their funding, it seems like for Mapbox, I haven't used it in a while, but my understanding is like a lot of their business now is car companies and doing in dash navigation. And that is probably way better of a business than trying to serve like people making maps of toilets. And I think sort of the beauty of it is that, so Mapbox, the story is they had a JavaScript renderer called Mapbox GL JS. And they changed that to a source available license a couple years ago. And there's a fork of it that I'm sort of involved in called MapLibre GL. But I think the cool part is Mapbox paid employees for years, probably millions of dollars in total to work on this thing and just gave it away for free. Right? So everyone can benefit from that work they did. It's not like that code went away, like once they changed the license. Well, the old version has been forked. It's going its own way now. It's quite different than the new version of Mapbox, but I think it's extremely generous that they're able to pay people for years, you know, like a competitive salary and just give that away. [00:20:10] Jeremy: Yeah, so we should maybe look at it as, it was a gift while it was open source, and they've given it to the community and they're on continuing on their own path, but at least the community running Map Libre, they can run with it, right? It's not like it just disappeared. [00:20:29] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. And that is something that I use for Protomaps quite extensively. Like it's the primary way of showing maps on the web and I've been trying to like work on some enhancements to it to have like better internationalization for if you are in like South Asia like not show languages correctly. So I think it is being taken in a new direction. And I think like sort of the combination of Protomaps and MapLibre, it addresses a lot of use cases, like I mentioned earlier with like these like hobby projects, indie projects that are almost certainly not interesting to someone like Mapbox or Google as a business. But I'm happy to support as a small business myself. Financially supporting open source work (GitHub sponsors, closed source, contracts) [00:21:12] Jeremy: In my previous interview with Tom, one of the main things he mentioned was that creating a mapping business is incredibly difficult, and he said he probably wouldn't do it again. So in your case, you're building Protomaps, which you've admitted is easy to self-host. So there's not a whole lot of incentive for people to pay you. How is that working out for you? How are you supporting yourself? [00:21:40] Brandon: There's a couple of strategies that I've tried and oftentimes failed at. Just to go down the list, so I do have GitHub sponsors so I do have a hosted version of Protomaps you can use if you don't want to bother copying a big file around. But the way I do the billing for that is through GitHub sponsors. If you wanted to use this thing I provide, then just be a sponsor. And that definitely pays for itself, like the cost of running it. And that's great. GitHub sponsors is so easy to set up. It just removes you having to deal with Stripe or something. 'cause a lot of people, their credit card information is already in GitHub. GitHub sponsors I think is awesome if you want to like cover costs for a project. But I think very few people are able to make that work. A thing that's like a salary job level. It's sort of like Twitch streaming, you know, there's a handful of people that are full-time streamers and then you look down the list on Twitch and it's like a lot of people that have like 10 viewers. But some of the other things I've tried, I actually started out, publishing the base map as a closed source thing, where I would sell sort of like a data package instead of being a SaaS, I'd be like, here's a one-time download, of the premium data and you can buy it. And quite a few people bought it I just priced it at like $500 for this thing. And I thought that was an interesting experiment. The main reason it's interesting is because the people that it attracts to you in terms of like, they're curious about your products, are all people willing to pay money. While if you start out everything being open source, then the people that are gonna be try to do it are only the people that want to get something for free. So what I discovered is actually like once you transition that thing from closed source to open source, a lot of the people that used to pay you money will still keep paying you money because like, it wasn't necessarily that that closed source thing was why they wanted to pay. They just valued that thought you've put into it your expertise, for example. So I think that is one thing, that I tried at the beginning was just start out, closed source proprietary, then make it open source. That's interesting to people. Like if you release something as open source, if you go the other way, like people are really mad if you start out with something open source and then later on you're like, oh, it's some other license. Then people are like that's so rotten. But I think doing it the other way, I think is quite valuable in terms of being able to find an audience. [00:24:29] Jeremy: And when you said it was closed source and paid to open source, do you still sell those map exports? [00:24:39] Brandon: I don't right now. It's something that I might do in the future, you know, like have small customizations of the data that are available, uh, for a fee. still like the core OpenStreetMap based map that's like a hundred gigs you can just download. And that'll always just be like a free download just because that's already out there. All the source code to build it is open source. So even if I said, oh, you have to pay for it, then someone else can just do it right? So there's no real reason like to make that like some sort of like paywall thing. But I think like overall if the project is gonna survive in the long term it's important that I'd ideally like to be able to like grow like a team like have a small group of people that can dedicate the time to growing the project in the long term. But I'm still like trying to figure that out right now. [00:25:34] Jeremy: And when you mentioned that when you went from closed to open and people were still paying you, you don't sell a product anymore. What were they paying for? [00:25:45] Brandon: So I have some contracts with companies basically, like if they need a feature or they need a customization in this way then I am very open to those. And I sort of set it up to make it clear from the beginning that this is not just a free thing on GitHub, this is something that you could pay for if you need help with it, if you need support, if you wanted it. I'm also a little cagey about the word support because I think like it sounds a little bit too wishy-washy. Pretty much like if you need access to the developers of an open source project, I think that's something that businesses are willing to pay for. And I think like making that clear to potential users is a challenge. But I think that is one way that you might be able to make like a living out of open source. [00:26:35] Jeremy: And I think you said you'd been working on it for about five years. Has that mostly been full time? [00:26:42] Brandon: It's been on and off. it's sort of my pandemic era project. But I've spent a lot of time, most of my time working on the open source project at this point. So I have done some things that were more just like I'm doing a customization or like a private deployment for some client. But that's been a minority of the time. Yeah. [00:27:03] Jeremy: It's still impressive to have an open source project that is easy to self-host and yet is still able to support you working on it full time. I think a lot of people might make the assumption that there's nothing to sell if something is, is easy to use. But this sort of sounds like a counterpoint to that. [00:27:25] Brandon: I think I'd like it to be. So when you come back to the point of like, it being easy to self-host. Well, so again, like I think about it as like a primitive of the web. Like for example, if you wanted to start a business today as like hosted CSS files, you know, like where you upload your CSS and then you get developers to pay you a monthly subscription for how many times they fetched a CSS file. Well, I think most developers would be like, that's stupid because it's just an open specification, you just upload a static file. And really my goal is to make Protomaps the same way where it's obvious that there's not really some sort of lock-in or some sort of secret sauce in the server that does this thing. How PMTiles works and building a primitive of the web [00:28:16] Brandon: If you look at video for example, like a lot of the tech for how Protomaps and PMTiles works is based on parts of the HTTP spec that were made for video. And 20 years ago, if you wanted to host a video on the web, you had to have like a real player license or flash. So you had to go license some server software from real media or from macromedia so you could stream video to a browser plugin. But now in HTML you can just embed a video file. And no one's like, oh well I need to go pay for my video serving license. I mean, there is such a thing, like YouTube doesn't really use that for DRM reasons, but people just have the assumption that video is like a primitive on the web. So if we're able to make maps sort of that same way like a primitive on the web then there isn't really some obvious business or licensing model behind how that works. Just because it's a thing and it helps a lot of people do their jobs and people are happy using it. So why bother? [00:29:26] Jeremy: You mentioned that it a tech that was used for streaming video. What tech specifically is it? [00:29:34] Brandon: So it is byte range serving. So when you open a video file on the web, So let's say it's like a 100 megabyte video. You don't have to download the entire video before it starts playing. It streams parts out of the file based on like what frames... I mean, it's based on the frames in the video. So it can start streaming immediately because it's organized in a way to where the first few frames are at the beginning. And what PMTiles really is, is it's just like a video but in space instead of time. So it's organized in a way where these zoomed out views are at the beginning and the most zoomed in views are at the end. So when you're like panning or zooming in the map all you're really doing is fetching byte ranges out of that file the same way as a video. But it's organized in, this tiled way on a space filling curve. IIt's a little bit complicated how it works internally and I think it's kind of cool but that's sort of an like an implementation detail. [00:30:35] Jeremy: And to the person deploying it, it just looks like a single file. [00:30:40] Brandon: Exactly in the same way like an mp3 audio file is or like a JSON file is. [00:30:47] Jeremy: So with a video, I can sort of see how as someone seeks through the video, they start at the beginning and then they go to the middle if they wanna see the middle. For a map, as somebody scrolls around the map, are you seeking all over the file or is the way it's structured have a little less chaos? [00:31:09] Brandon: It's structured. And that's kind of the main technical challenge behind building PMTiles is you have to be sort of clever so you're not spraying the reads everywhere. So it uses something called a hilbert curve, which is a mathematical concept of a space filling curve. Where it's one continuous curve that essentially lets you break 2D space into 1D space. So if you've seen some maps of IP space, it uses this crazy looking curve that hits all the points in one continuous line. And that's the same concept behind PMTiles is if you're looking at one part of the world, you're sort of guaranteed that all of those parts you're looking at are quite close to each other and the data you have to transfer is quite minimal, compared to if you just had it at random. [00:32:02] Jeremy: How big do the files get? If I have a PMTiles of the entire world, what kind of size am I looking at? [00:32:10] Brandon: Right now, the default one I distribute is 128 gigabytes, so it's quite sizable, although you can slice parts out of it remotely. So if you just wanted. if you just wanted California or just wanted LA or just wanted only a couple of zoom levels, like from zero to 10 instead of zero to 15, there is a command line tool that's also called PMTiles that lets you do that. Issues with CDNs and range queries [00:32:35] Jeremy: And when you're working with files of this size, I mean, let's say I am working with a CDN in front of my application. I'm not typically accustomed to hosting something that's that large and something that's where you're seeking all over the file. is that, ever an issue or is that something that's just taken care of by the browser and, and taken care of by, by the hosts? [00:32:58] Brandon: That is an issue actually, so a lot of CDNs don't deal with it correctly. And my recommendation is there is a kind of proxy server or like a serverless proxy thing that I wrote. That runs on like cloudflare workers or on Docker that lets you proxy those range requests into a normal URL and then that is like a hundred percent CDN compatible. So I would say like a lot of the big commercial installations of this thing, they use that because it makes more practical sense. It's also faster. But the idea is that this solution sort of scales up and scales down. If you wanted to host just your city in like a 10 megabyte file, well you can just put that into GitHub pages and you don't have to worry about it. If you want to have a global map for your website that serves a ton of traffic then you probably want a little bit more sophisticated of a solution. It still does not require you to run a Linux server, but it might require (you) to use like Lambda or Lambda in conjunction with like a CDN. [00:34:09] Jeremy: Yeah. And that sort of ties into what you were saying at the beginning where if you can host on something like CloudFlare Workers or Lambda, there's less time you have to spend keeping these things running. [00:34:26] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. and I think also the Lambda or CloudFlare workers solution is not perfect. It's not as perfect as S3 or as just static files, but in my experience, it still is better at building something that lasts on the time span of years than being like I have a server that is on this Ubuntu version and in four years there's all these like security patches that are not being applied. So it's still sort of serverless, although not totally vendor neutral like S3. Customizing the map [00:35:03] Jeremy: We've mostly been talking about how you host the map itself, but for someone who's not familiar with these kind of tools, how would they be customizing the map? [00:35:15] Brandon: For customizing the map there is front end style customization and there's also data customization. So for the front end if you wanted to change the water from the shade of blue to another shade of blue there is a TypeScript API where you can customize it almost like a text editor color scheme. So if you're able to name a bunch of colors, well you can customize the map in that way you can change the fonts. And that's all done using MapLibre GL using a TypeScript API on top of that for customizing the data. So all the pipeline to generate this data from OpenStreetMap is open source. There is a Java program using a library called PlanetTiler which is awesome, which is this super fast multi-core way of building map tiles. And right now there isn't really great hooks to customize what data goes into that. But that's something that I do wanna work on. And finally, because the data comes from OpenStreetMap if you notice data that's missing or you wanted to correct data in OSM then you can go into osm.org. You can get involved in contributing the data to OSM and the Protomaps build is daily. So if you make a change, then within 24 hours you should see the new base map. Have that change. And of course for OSM your improvements would go into every OSM based project that is ingesting that data. So it's not a protomap specific thing. It's like this big shared data source, almost like Wikipedia. OpenStreetMap is a dataset and not a map [00:37:01] Jeremy: I think you were involved with OpenStreetMap to some extent. Can you speak a little bit to that for people who aren't familiar, what OpenStreetMap is? [00:37:11] Brandon: Right. So I've been using OSM as sort of like a tools developer for over a decade now. And one of the number one questions I get from developers about what is Protomaps is why wouldn't I just use OpenStreetMap? What's the distinction between Protomaps and OpenStreetMap? And it's sort of like this funny thing because even though OSM has map in the name it's not really a map in that you can't... In that it's mostly a data set and not a map. It does have a map that you can see that you can pan around to when you go to the website but the way that thing they show you on the website is built is not really that easily reproducible. It involves a lot of c++ software you have to run. But OpenStreetMap itself, the heart of it is almost like a big XML file that has all the data in the map and global. And it has tagged features for example. So you can go in and edit that. It has a web front end to change the data. It does not directly translate into making a map actually. Protomaps decides what shows at each zoom level [00:38:24] Brandon: So a lot of the pipeline, that Java program I mentioned for building this basemap for protomaps is doing things like you have to choose what data you show when you zoom out. You can't show all the data. For example when you're zoomed out and you're looking at all of a state like Colorado you don't see all the Chipotle when you're zoomed all the way out. That'd be weird, right? So you have to make some sort of decision in logic that says this data only shows up at this zoom level. And that's really what is the challenge in optimizing the size of that for the Protomaps map project. [00:39:03] Jeremy: Oh, so those decisions of what to show at different Zoom levels those are decisions made by you when you're creating the PMTiles file with Protomaps. [00:39:14] Brandon: Exactly. It's part of the base maps build pipeline. and those are honestly very subjective decisions. Who really decides when you're zoomed out should this hospital show up or should this museum show up nowadays in Google, I think it shows you ads. Like if someone pays for their car repair shop to show up when you're zoomed out like that that gets surfaced. But because there is no advertising auction in Protomaps that doesn't happen obviously. So we have to sort of make some reasonable choice. A lot of that right now in Protomaps actually comes from another open source project called Mapzen. So Mapzen was a company that went outta business a couple years ago. They did a lot of this work in designing which data shows up at which Zoom level and open sourced it. And then when they shut down, they transferred that code into the Linux Foundation. So it's this totally open source project, that like, again, sort of like Mapbox gl has this awesome legacy in that this company funded it for years for smart people to work on it and now it's just like a free thing you can use. So the logic in Protomaps is really based on mapzen. [00:40:33] Jeremy: And so the visualization of all this... I think I understand what you mean when people say oh, why not use OpenStreetMaps because it's not really clear it's hard to tell is this the tool that's visualizing the data? Is it the data itself? So in the case of using Protomaps, it sounds like Protomaps itself has all of the data from OpenStreetMap and then it has made all the decisions for you in terms of what to show at different Zoom levels and what things to have on the map at all. And then finally, you have to have a separate, UI layer and in this case, it sounds like the one that you recommend is the Map Libre library. [00:41:18] Brandon: Yeah, that's exactly right. For Protomaps, it has a portion or a subset of OSM data. It doesn't have all of it just because there's too much, like there's data in there. people have mapped out different bushes and I don't include that in Protomaps if you wanted to go in and edit like the Java code to add that you can. But really what Protomaps is positioned at is sort of a solution for developers that want to use OSM data to make a map on their app or their website. because OpenStreetMap itself is mostly a data set, it does not really go all the way to having an end-to-end solution. Financials and the idea of a project being complete [00:41:59] Jeremy: So I think it's great that somebody who wants to make a map, they have these tools available, whether it's from what was originally built by Mapbox, what's built by Open StreetMap now, the work you're doing with Protomaps. But I wonder one of the things that I talked about with Tom was he was saying he was trying to build this mapping business and based on the financials of what was coming in he was stressed, right? He was struggling a bit. And I wonder for you, you've been working on this open source project for five years. Do you have similar stressors or do you feel like I could keep going how things are now and I feel comfortable? [00:42:46] Brandon: So I wouldn't say I'm a hundred percent in one bucket or the other. I'm still seeing it play out. One thing, that I really respect in a lot of open source projects, which I'm not saying I'm gonna do for Protomaps is the idea that a project is like finished. I think that is amazing. If a software project can just be done it's sort of like a painting or a novel once you write, finish the last page, have it seen by the editor. I send it off to the press is you're done with a book. And I think one of the pains of software is so few of us can actually do that. And I don't know obviously people will say oh the map is never finished. That's more true of OSM, but I think like for Protomaps. One thing I'm thinking about is how to limit the scope to something that's quite narrow to where we could be feature complete on the core things in the near term timeframe. That means that it does not address a lot of things that people want. Like search, like if you go to Google Maps and you search for a restaurant, you will get some hits. that's like a geocoding issue. And I've already decided that's totally outta scope for Protomaps. So, in terms of trying to think about the future of this, I'm mostly looking for ways to cut scope if possible. There are some things like better tooling around being able to work with PMTiles that are on the roadmap. but for me, I am still enjoying working on the project. It's definitely growing. So I can see on NPM downloads I can see the growth curve of people using it and that's really cool. So I like hearing about when people are using it for cool projects. So it seems to still be going okay for now. [00:44:44] Jeremy: Yeah, that's an interesting perspective about how you were talking about projects being done. Because I think when people look at GitHub projects and they go like, oh, the last commit was X months ago. They go oh well this is dead right? But maybe that's the wrong framing. Maybe you can get a project to a point where it's like, oh, it's because it doesn't need to be updated. [00:45:07] Brandon: Exactly, yeah. Like I used to do a lot of c++ programming and the best part is when you see some LAPACK matrix math library from like 1995 that still works perfectly in c++ and you're like, this is awesome. This is the one I have to use. But if you're like trying to use some like React component library and it hasn't been updated in like a year, you're like, oh, that's a problem. So again, I think there's some middle ground between those that I'm trying to find. I do like for Protomaps, it's quite dependency light in terms of the number of hard dependencies I have in software. but I do still feel like there is a lot of work to be done in terms of project scope that needs to have stuff added. You mostly only hear about problems instead of people's wins [00:45:54] Jeremy: Having run it for this long. Do you have any thoughts on running an open source project in general? On dealing with issues or managing what to work on things like that? [00:46:07] Brandon: Yeah. So I have a lot. I think one thing people point out a lot is that especially because I don't have a direct relationship with a lot of the people using it a lot of times I don't even know that they're using it. Someone sent me a message saying hey, have you seen flickr.com, like the photo site? And I'm like, no. And I went to flickr.com/map and it has Protomaps for it. And I'm like, I had no idea. But that's cool, if they're able to use Protomaps for this giant photo sharing site that's awesome. But that also means I don't really hear about when people use it successfully because you just don't know, I guess they, NPM installed it and it works perfectly and you never hear about it. You only hear about people's negative experiences. You only hear about people that come and open GitHub issues saying this is totally broken, and why doesn't this thing exist? And I'm like, well, it's because there's an infinite amount of things that I want to do, but I have a finite amount of time and I just haven't gone into that yet. And that's honestly a lot of the things and people are like when is this thing gonna be done? So that's, that's honestly part of why I don't have a public roadmap because I want to avoid that sort of bickering about it. I would say that's one of my biggest frustrations with running an open source project is how it's self-selected to only hear the negative experiences with it. Be careful what PRs you accept [00:47:32] Brandon: 'cause you don't hear about those times where it works. I'd say another thing is it's changed my perspective on contributing to open source because I think when I was younger or before I had become a maintainer I would open a pull request on a project unprompted that has a hundred lines and I'd be like, Hey, just merge this thing. But I didn't realize when I was younger well if I just merge it and I disappear, then the maintainer is stuck with what I did forever. You know if I add some feature then that person that maintains the project has to do that indefinitely. And I think that's very asymmetrical and it's changed my perspective a lot on accepting open source contributions. I wanna have it be open to anyone to contribute. But there is some amount of back and forth where it's almost like the default answer for should I accept a PR is no by default because you're the one maintaining it. And do you understand the shape of that solution completely to where you're going to support it for years because the person that's contributing it is not bound to those same obligations that you are. And I think that's also one of the things where I have a lot of trepidation around open source is I used to think of it as a lot more bazaar-like in terms of anyone can just throw their thing in. But then that creates a lot of problems for the people who are expected out of social obligation to continue this thing indefinitely. [00:49:23] Jeremy: Yeah, I can totally see why that causes burnout with a lot of open source maintainers, because you probably to some extent maybe even feel some guilt right? You're like, well, somebody took the time to make this. But then like you said you have to spend a lot of time trying to figure out is this something I wanna maintain long term? And one wrong move and it's like, well, it's in here now. [00:49:53] Brandon: Exactly. To me, I think that is a very common failure mode for open source projects is they're too liberal in the things they accept. And that's a lot of why I was talking about how that choice of what features show up on the map was inherited from the MapZen projects. If I didn't have that then somebody could come in and say hey, you know, I want to show power lines on the map. And they open a PR for power lines and now everybody who's using Protomaps when they're like zoomed out they see power lines are like I didn't want that. So I think that's part of why a lot of open source projects eventually evolve into a plugin system is because there is this demand as the project grows for more and more features. But there is a limit in the maintainers. It's like the demand for features is exponential while the maintainer amount of time and effort is linear. Plugin systems might reduce need for PRs [00:50:56] Brandon: So maybe the solution to smash that exponential down to quadratic maybe is to add a plugin system. But I think that is one of the biggest tensions that only became obvious to me after working on this for a couple of years. [00:51:14] Jeremy: Is that something you're considering doing now? [00:51:18] Brandon: Is the plugin system? Yeah. I think for the data customization, I eventually wanted to have some sort of programmatic API to where you could declare a config file that says I want ski routes. It totally makes sense. The power lines example is maybe a little bit obscure but for example like a skiing app and you want to be able to show ski slopes when you're zoomed out well you're not gonna be able to get that from Mapbox or from Google because they have a one size fits all map that's not specialized to skiing or to golfing or to outdoors. But if you like, in theory, you could do this with Protomaps if you changed the Java code to show data at different zoom levels. And that is to me what makes the most sense for a plugin system and also makes the most product sense because it enables a lot of things you cannot do with the one size fits all map. [00:52:20] Jeremy: It might also increase the complexity of the implementation though, right? [00:52:25] Brandon: Yeah, exactly. So that's like. That's really where a lot of the terrifying thoughts come in, which is like once you create this like config file surface area, well what does that look like? Is that JSON? Is that TOML, is that some weird like everything eventually evolves into some scripting language right? Where you have logic inside of your templates and I honestly do not really know what that looks like right now. That feels like something in the medium term roadmap. [00:52:58] Jeremy: Yeah and then in terms of bug reports or issues, now it's not just your code it's this exponential combination of whatever people put into these config files. [00:53:09] Brandon: Exactly. Yeah. so again, like I really respect the projects that have done this well or that have done plugins well. I'm trying to think of some, I think obsidian has plugins, for example. And that seems to be one of the few solutions to try and satisfy the infinite desire for features with the limited amount of maintainer time. Time split between code vs triage vs talking to users [00:53:36] Jeremy: How would you say your time is split between working on the code versus issue and PR triage? [00:53:43] Brandon: Oh, it varies really. I think working on the code is like a minority of it. I think something that I actually enjoy is talking to people, talking to users, getting feedback on it. I go to quite a few conferences to talk to developers or people that are interested and figure out how to refine the message, how to make it clearer to people, like what this is for. And I would say maybe a plurality of my time is spent dealing with non-technical things that are neither code or GitHub issues. One thing I've been trying to do recently is talk to people that are not really in the mapping space. For example, people that work for newspapers like a lot of them are front end developers and if you ask them to run a Linux server they're like I have no idea. But that really is like one of the best target audiences for Protomaps. So I'd say a lot of the reality of running an open source project is a lot like a business is it has all the same challenges as a business in terms of you have to figure out what is the thing you're offering. You have to deal with people using it. You have to deal with feedback, you have to deal with managing emails and stuff. I don't think the payoff is anywhere near running a business or a startup that's backed by VC money is but it's definitely not the case that if you just want to code, you should start an open source project because I think a lot of the work for an opensource project has nothing to do with just writing the code. It is in my opinion as someone having done a VC backed business before, it is a lot more similar to running, a tech company than just putting some code on GitHub. Running a startup vs open source project [00:55:43] Jeremy: Well, since you've done both at a high level what did you like about running the company versus maintaining the open source project? [00:55:52] Brandon: So I have done some venture capital accelerator programs before and I think there is an element of hype and energy that you get from that that is self perpetuating. Your co-founder is gungho on like, yeah, we're gonna do this thing. And your investors are like, you guys are geniuses. You guys are gonna make a killing doing this thing. And the way it's framed is sort of obvious to everyone that it's like there's a much more traditional set of motivations behind that, that people understand while it's definitely not the case for running an open source project. Sometimes you just wake up and you're like what the hell is this thing for, it is this thing you spend a lot of time on. You don't even know who's using it. The people that use it and make a bunch of money off of it they know nothing about it. And you know, it's just like cool. And then you only hear from people that are complaining about it. And I think like that's honestly discouraging compared to the more clear energy and clearer motivation and vision behind how most people think about a company. But what I like about the open source project is just the lack of those constraints you know? Where you have a mandate that you need to have this many customers that are paying by this amount of time. There's that sort of pressure on delivering a business result instead of just making something that you're proud of that's simple to use and has like an elegant design. I think that's really a difference in motivation as well. Having control [00:57:50] Jeremy: Do you feel like you have more control? Like you mentioned how you've decided I'm not gonna make a public roadmap. I'm the sole developer. I get to decide what goes in. What doesn't. Do you feel like you have more control in your current position than you did running the startup? [00:58:10] Brandon: Definitely for sure. Like that agency is what I value the most. It is possible to go too far. Like, so I'm very wary of the BDFL title, which I think is how a lot of open source projects succeed. But I think there is some element of for a project to succeed there has to be somebody that makes those decisions. Sometimes those decisions will be wrong and then hopefully they can be rectified. But I think going back to what I was talking about with scope, I think the overall vision and the scope of the project is something that I am very opinionated about in that it should do these things. It shouldn't do these things. It should be easy to use for this audience. Is it gonna be appealing to this other audience? I don't know. And I think that is really one of the most important parts of that leadership role, is having the power to decide we're doing this, we're not doing this. I would hope other developers would be able to get on board if they're able to make good use of the project, if they use it for their company, if they use it for their business, if they just think the project is cool. So there are other contributors at this point and I want to get more involved. But I think being able to make those decisions to what I believe is going to be the best project is something that is very special about open source, that isn't necessarily true about running like a SaaS business. [00:59:50] Jeremy: I think that's a good spot to end it on, so if people want to learn more about Protomaps or they wanna see what you're up to, where should they head? [01:00:00] Brandon: So you can go to Protomaps.com, GitHub, or you can find me or Protomaps on bluesky or Mastodon. [01:00:09] Jeremy: All right, Brandon, thank you so much for chatting today. [01:00:12] Brandon: Great. Thank you very much.

We explore the explosive rise of Vibe Coding and its implications for no-code. We break down a viral Twitter story of a hacked AI-built app, examine Bubble's game-changing AI editor preview, and make a case for Cloudflare Workers as the unsung hero of AI development. Plus, get updates on the Create With conference including new pre-conference workshops and exciting speaker announcements!

What is UP folks! Alex here from Weights & Biases (yeah, still, but check this weeks buzz section below for some news!) I really really enjoyed today's episode, I feel like I can post it unedited it was so so good. We started the show with our good friend Junyang Lin from Alibaba Qwen, where he told us about their new 32B reasoner QwQ. Then we interviewed Google's VP of the search product, Robby Stein, who came and told us about their upcoming AI mode in Google! I got access and played with it, and it made me switch back from PPXL as my main. And lastly, I recently became fully MCP-pilled, since we covered it when it came out over thanksgiving, I saw this acronym everywhere on my timeline but only recently "got it" and so I wanted to have an MCP deep dive, and boy... did I get what I wished for! You absolutely should tune in to the show as there's no way for me to cover everything we covered about MCP with Dina and Jason! ok without, further adieu.. let's dive in (and the TL;DR, links and show notes in the end as always!) ThursdAI - Recaps of the most high signal AI weekly spaces is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Wes and CJ break down everything Cloudflare—from Workers and R2 Storage to Hyperdrive and AI Gateway. Get the scoop on what makes Cloudflare tick, the quirks of their ecosystem, and whether vendor lock-in is a real concern. Show Notes 00:00 Welcome to Syntax! 01:40 Brought to you by Sentry.io. 01:58 What we're talking about today. 02:48 Cloudflare Workers. 03:06 How Cloudflare Workers… work. 04:39 How Cloudflare Workers run. 06:05 Workers size limitations in JavaScript. 07:37 Cloudflare has their own way. 08:13 Potential vendor lock-in. 08:51 You pay based on CPU time, not wall time. 10:26 Cloudflare Pages. Compatibility Matrix 12:07 Durable Objects. Zeb X Post. PartyKit.io, tldraw. 16:41 Cloudflare Workflows. 19:52 How we do something similar on Syntax.fm. 20:52 Cloudflare Queues. 25:26 Files. 26:15 R2 Storage. Ep 780: Cloud Storage: Bandwidth, Storage and BIG ZIPS. 28:00 The Open Bandwidth Alliance. 28:39 Image Pipelines. 33:24 Cloudflare Stream. Streaming Video in 2025. 34:24 Data. 36:37 Key Value. 40:16 Time To Live. 41:13 Hyperdrive. How It Works. Query caching. 44:01 Vectorize Data. 45:41 AI Gateway. 47:49 Automated Rate-Limiting. 48:50 Frameworks. Orange.js. 52:13 Analytics Engine. Counterscale. Ep 761: Cloudflare Analytics Engine, Workers + more with Ben Vinegar. 52:52 WebRTC Engine. 53:01 Puppeteer API. 54:09 Sick Picks + Shameless Plugs. Sick Picks CJ: Flush MicroSD Adapter for Macbook Wes: Synology. Shameless Plugs Wes: Syntax on YouTube. Hit us up on Socials! Syntax: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Wes: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Scott: X Instagram Tiktok LinkedIn Threads Randy: X Instagram YouTube Threads

De Java 23 à WebAssembly, en passant par l'IA et les design patterns, on a tout passé au crible #java #swift #webassembly #wordpress #webcomponents #llm #mongodb #keycloak #fairsource Enregistré le 18 octobre 2024 Téléchargement de l'épisode LesCastCodeurs-Episode–317.mp3 News Langages Java 23 est sorti ! InfoQ liste toutes les JEPs intégrées à la nouvelle version https://www.infoq.com/news/2024/09/java23-released/ Et FooJay plonge dans le détail https://foojay.io/today/java–23-has-arrived-and-it-brings-a-truckload-of-changes/ JEP 455: Primitive Types in Patterns, instanceof, and switch (Preview) JEP 466: Class-File API (Second Preview) JEP 467: Markdown Documentation Comments JEP 469: Vector API (Eighth Incubator) JEP 471: Deprecate the Memory-Access Methods in sun.misc.Unsafe for Removal JEP 473: Stream Gatherers (Second Preview) JEP 474: ZGC: Generational Mode by Default JEP 476: Module Import Declarations (Preview) JEP 477: Implicitly Declared Classes and Instance Main Methods (Third Preview) JEP 480: Structured Concurrency (Third Preview) JEP 481: Scoped Values (Third Preview) JEP 482: Flexible Constructor Bodies (Second Preview) StringTemplate s'en va Un article sur l'API ClassFile qui sera un standard dans le JDK pour manipuler des classes (ala ASM) https://www.unlogged.io/post/class-file-api-not-your-everyday-java-api article long mais qui revient sur les raisons notamment parce que ASM est dans le JDK et qu'ils sont un problème de poule et d'oeuf et sur la forme de l'API a des exemples d'usage tout cela reste en preview dans le JDK des optimisation comme le lazy parsing et le constant pool sharing (en gros faire de la reference sur ce qui n'a pas changé Tip and Tail is back: cette fois une JEP https://openjdk.org/jeps/14 plus qu'une keynote provocative au language summit maintenant une JEP dite informative le language est un pu flou sur l'objectif entre regarder tip and tail pour vos librairies c'est bien et adoptons tous le meme tip du JDK jusqu'aux stack applicatives Apple annonce la sortie de son language Swift en version 6 https://www.swift.org/blog/announcing-swift–6/ Nouvelles plateformes : Swift 6 s'étend à de nouvelles plateformes (tous les grands OS déjà supportés), y compris les systèmes embarqués (sous ARM et Risc V). Swift Testing : Swift 6 introduit Swift Testing, une nouvelle bibliothèque de tests conçue pour Swift. Concurrence : Détection de data race en tant qu'erreur de compilation. Apple annonce travailler sur l'interopérabilité Swift / Java https://github.com/swiftlang/swift-java comme jextract mais dans l'autre sens The news Java https://www.infoq.com/news/2024/10/java-news-roundup-oct07–2024/ JDK 24 : Un calendrier pour la sortie de JDK 24 a été proposé. La première phase de réduction des fonctionnalités commencera le 5 décembre 2024. La version finale sera disponible le 18 mars 2025. JDK 24 introduira des mises à jour avec deux nouvelles API. La Vector API (JEP 489) facilitera les opérations sur des vecteurs, tandis que la Class-File API (JEP 484) permettra une manipulation plus efficace des fichiers de classes Java. Un changement de sécurité important est proposé avec JEP 486. Il prévoit de désactiver définitivement le Security Manager, qui a été déprécié. Cette décision signifie que cette fonctionnalité ne sera plus disponible dans les futures versions, car elle est considérée comme obsolète. Apache Tomcat et Cassandra : Les nouvelles versions de Tomcat (11.0.0) et de Cassandra (5.0.0) sont sorties. Elles incluent des améliorations et des corrections de bogues. Spring Framework : Des mises à jour pour Spring Framework (versions 3.4.0-M2, 3.3.3 et 3.2.8) ont été publiées. Elles intègrent le support d'une nouvelle API qui aide à la gestion de la mémoire. Quarkus : Red Hat a sorti la version 3.15 de Quarkus, qui apporte des corrections et des améliorations. Une nouvelle version, la 3.16, est prévue pour la fin octobre. Commonhaus Foundation : Une nouvelle organisation, la Commonhaus Foundation, a été créée pour aider les projets open source à être durables. Quarkus a rejoint cette fondation. Cassandra, Camel, Lamgchain, Micronaut, OpenLibery, JHipster, Ktor etc. Design patterns revisited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE5M6bwruhw Design and design patterns. Optional: patterns and anti-patterns. Iterator pattern. Lightweight Strategy. Factory Method using default methods. Laziness using Lambda Expressions. Decorator using Lambda Expressions. Creating Fluent interfaces. Execute Around Method Pattern. Creating a Closed Hierarchy with sealed classes. Popularité des langages de programmation https://www.techspot.com/news/105157-python-most-popular-coding-language-but-challengers-gaining.html Python reste le langage de programmation le plus populaire, surtout dans des domaines comme la science des données et le développement web. Il est apprécié pour sa simplicité et le grand nombre de bibliothèques disponibles, ce qui le rend facile à apprendre et à utiliser. De nombreuses entreprises, y compris des startups, utilisent Python pour diverses applications. Malgré sa dominance, d'autres langages comme JavaScript, Java et Go gagnent en popularité et pourraient défier la position de leader de Python. (Java est monté du poste 4 au 3, en 1 an) Les développeurs qui codent occasionnellement préfèrent Python, montrant ainsi son attrait au-delà des programmeurs professionnels. L'émergence d'outils comme ChatGPT facilite l'accès à la programmation, ce qui pourrait influencer les tendances futures en matière de langages de programmation. Librairies Paramétrer ses tests JUnit 5 avec @CsvSource https://mikemybytes.com/2021/10/19/parameterize-like-a-pro-with-junit–5-csvsource/ l'annotation permet d'avoir ses données de test au plus près de la méthode on écrit les données de test sous forme de CSV (éventuellement avec des délimiteurs de son choix pour plus de lisibilité, pour bien séparer les valeurs) par exemple -> ou maps to les valeurs peut être les paramètres de la method mai aussi les valeur de description du test Infrastructure Turbocharged Development: The Speed and Efficiency of WebAssembly par Danielle Lancashire https://devsummit.infoq.com/presentation/munich2024/turbocharged-development-speed-and-efficiency-webassembly L'utilisation de WebAssembly avec Serverless. Faire tourner des applications plus facilement dans le cloud.WebAssembly est rapide et sûr pour exécuter du code. Cela aide à déployer les applications plus rapidement et à utiliser moins de ressources. De nombreuses entreprises utilisent WebAssembly pour des tâches comme le traitement d'images et de données. Des plateformes comme Cloudflare Workers et AWS Lambda. La communauté autour de WebAssembly granèit. De nouveaux outils et bibliothèques sont créés. Cependant, il y a encore des défis à relever, comme la compatibilité et les performances. Malgré cela, l'avenir de WebAssembly est prometteur. Web C'est la guerre chez Wordpress https://techcrunch.com/2024/09/26/wordpress-vs-wp-engine-drama-explained/ une boite nommée WP Engine fait du hosting de WordPress mais ne contribue pas Automatic, les gens derrière WordPress leur onbt demandé de résoudre ce probleme, soit en payant des droits de trademark soit en contribuant de l'engineering upstream à auteur de 8% de leurs revenus WP Engine dit non Automatic coupe l'accès aux mises a jours de thèmes et de plugins à WP Engine mettant des sites à risque (securité) WP Engine dit que c'est un abus de position du CEO d'Automatic sur les accès WordPress.org Bref c'est le drame le CEO d'automatic propose à ses employés 6 mois de salaire si ils ne sont pas d'accord avec la stratégie https://www.cio.com/article/3550331/one-twelfth-of-automattic-staff-leave-over-wordpress-wp-engine-spat.html 8% ont pris l'offre Les WebComposants ne sont pas le fuitur https://dev.to/ryansolid/web-components-are-not-the-future–48bh un article d'un auteur proéminent de framework JavaScript Discute les avantages et les inconvenients de la standardisation qui permet d'élever le débat mais aussi bloque des avenues d'optimisations beaucoup d'exemples d'inovations en frameworks JS qui auraient été bloqués Les commentaires apres l'article sont interessants aussi (en contre perspective) mais tout le monde n'est pas d'accord avec cet article https://www.abeautifulsite.net/posts/web-components-are-not-the-future-they-re-the-present/ Data et Intelligence Artificielle Conseils et bonnes pratiques lors de l'intégration de LLM dans une application https://glaforge.dev/posts/2024/09/23/some-good-practices-when-integrating-an-llm-in-your-application/ management de prompt effectif versionnage et externalisation des prompts fixer la version des modèles optimisation et caching mettre en place des rails de sécurité évaluer et monitorer le comportement et la performance prioriser la sécurité des données privées Encore une nouvelle version de LangChain4j, avec la version 0.35 ! Guillaume couvre les nouveautés côté Gemini et Google Cloud https://glaforge.dev/posts/2024/09/29/lots-of-new-cool-gemini-stuff-in-langchain4j/ Support des toutes nouvelles versions de Gemini 1.5 (version 002) Un “document loader” pour charger des documents à partir de Google Cloud Storage Un “scoring model” qui permet de faire du “reranking” de résultat, pour trouver les résultats les plus pertinents pour une requête donnée Support de nouveaux paramètres des embedding models (choix de la dimensionalité des vecteurs, du troncage des textes en entrée) Ajout d'un “embedding model” pour le module Google AI Gemini Un estimateur de token pour Google AI Gemini Support des chat listeners Support des enums pour la sortie structurée JSON Et plein de mise à jour de la documentation pour refleter tous ces changements et aditions Self Correction Algo LLM https://www.infoq.com/news/2024/10/google-deepmind-score/ Google DeepMind a récemment publié SCoRe, une nouvelle méthode d'auto-correction pour les modèles de langage (LLM). Elle améliore la capacité des LLM à corriger leurs erreurs lorsqu'ils résolvent des problèmes de mathématiques ou de programmation. Contrairement aux méthodes antérieures, SCoRe utilise des données générées par le modèle lui-même pour créer des dialogues d'auto-correction. Cela permet au modèle de s'améliorer via un processus d'apprentissage par renforcement (RL) en deux étapes. Les modèles ajustés avec cette technique ont montré des améliorations significatives, surpassant les performances des modèles de base. Cette méthode pourrait ouvrir de nouvelles pistes pour rendre les LLM plus précis et robustes dans leurs réponses. MongoDB 8 est sorti https://www.mongodb.com/products/updates/version-release La version 8.0 est plus rapide, avec des lectures plus rapides, une meilleure gestion des mises à jour et des agrégations de séries temporelles jusqu'à 60 % plus rapides. De nouvelles fonctionnalités incluent le support des Query pour les données chiffrées, rendant le traitement des données sensibles plus facile. Beaucoup d'ameliorations pour la performance et scalabilité Guillaume explore les techniques avancées de Retrieval Augmented Generation pour améliorer la qualité des résultats de recherche dans ses propres documents, avec les LLMs https://glaforge.dev/talks/2024/10/14/advanced-rag-techniques/ Présentations et vidéos données lors de la conférence Devoxx Belgique Code des exemples disponibles sur Github Techniques de chunking : sliding window, hypothetical questions, semantic chunking, context retrieval chunking Techniques de retrieval : hypothetical document embedding, query compression, metadata filtering Outillage Article sur les cache alias en Infinispan https://infinispan.org/blog/2024/10/07/cache-aliases-redis-databases Explique comment on peut utiliser Infinispan pour remplacer Redis Explique la différence entre les database de Redis et les caches d'Infinispan Explique l'utilité des alias en général Explique comment on peut avoir un mapping des databases de Redis vers des caches d'Infinispan Sécurité Keycloak 26 est sorti: https://www.keycloak.org/2024/10/keycloak–2600-released Organizations feature: permet aux administrateurs de créer et gérer des structures organisationnelles, facilitant la gestion des rôles et des permissions. Persistent user sessions: Les sessions des utilisateurs sont maintenant stockées par default dans la base de donnée ce qui améliore la cohérence, surtout avec plusieurs instances. Login Theme: Offre un design plus propre et une option de mode sombre qui s'adapte aux préférences des utilisateurs. L'amélioration du déploiement multi-sites renforce la fiabilité et réduit le temps d'arrêt lors des demandes des utilisateurs. Admin recovery: une méthode simple pour récupérer l'accès administrateur si tous les comptes sont bloqués, en créant un compte temporaire via des variables d'environnement. Pour les utilisateurs qui migrent vers cette version, il est important de prêter attention aux changements liés à la gestion des caches et aux sessions persistantes. Loi, société et organisation Introduction des licences fair source https://techcrunch.com/2024/09/22/some-startups-are-going-fair-source-to-avoid-the-pitfalls-of-open-source-licensing/ Certaines startups utilisent des licences “fair source” pour partager leur code tout en protégeant leurs intérêts commerciaux. Les licences FSL (Functional Source License) et BUSL (Business Source License) permettent d'ouvrir le code après 2 ou 4 ans. Ces licences empêchent les concurrents de vendre des produits similaires tout de suite, offrant une protection temporaire. Certains critiques pensent que ces licences sont compliquées et pourraient limiter l'innovation, car elles ne sont pas totalement ouvertes. Le “fair source” est encore un concept nouveau, mais il pourrait devenir un bon compromis entre open source et logiciel privé. definition de fair source: code lisible publique, peut etre utilise et modifié avec des “restrictions minimales” pour proteger le business modele du producteur ; et devient open source de maniere deferée “any purpose other than a Competing Use. A Competing Use means use of the Software in or for a commercial product or service that competes with the Software or any other product or service we offer using the Software as of the date we make the Software available” Outils de l'épisode Un petit outil sympa pour les utilisateurs de Macs avec un écran “wide”, pour partager un écran virtuel : https://github.com/Stengo/DeskPad les écrans larges sont partagés entierement et ceui fait un rendu 16:9 pour les gens qui le voient cet écran acte comme un écran mais il est virtuel et on peut mettre les applications que l'on veut dedans on ne l'a pas testé Conférences La liste des conférences provenant de Developers Conferences Agenda/List par Aurélie Vache et contributeurs : 17–18 octobre 2024 : DevFest Nantes - Nantes (France) 17–18 octobre 2024 : DotAI - Paris (France) 30–31 octobre 2024 : Agile Tour Nantais 2024 - Nantes (France) 30–31 octobre 2024 : Agile Tour Bordeaux 2024 - Bordeaux (France) 31 octobre 2024–3 novembre 2024 : PyCon.FR - Strasbourg (France) 6 novembre 2024 : Master Dev De France - Paris (France) 7 novembre 2024 : DevFest Toulouse - Toulouse (France) 8 novembre 2024 : BDX I/O - Bordeaux (France) 13–14 novembre 2024 : Agile Tour Rennes 2024 - Rennes (France) 16–17 novembre 2024 : Capitole Du Libre - Toulouse (France) 20–22 novembre 2024 : Agile Grenoble 2024 - Grenoble (France) 21 novembre 2024 : DevFest Strasbourg - Strasbourg (France) 21 novembre 2024 : Codeurs en Seine - Rouen (France) 27–28 novembre 2024 : Cloud Expo Europe - Paris (France) 28 novembre 2024 : Who Run The Tech ? - Rennes (France) 2–3 décembre 2024 : Tech Rocks Summit - Paris (France) 3 décembre 2024 : Generation AI - Paris (France) 3–5 décembre 2024 : APIdays Paris - Paris (France) 4–5 décembre 2024 : DevOpsRex - Paris (France) 4–5 décembre 2024 : Open Source Experience - Paris (France) 5 décembre 2024 : GraphQL Day Europe - Paris (France) 6 décembre 2024 : DevFest Dijon - Dijon (France) 22–25 janvier 2025 : SnowCamp 2025 - Grenoble (France) 30 janvier 2025 : DevOps D-Day #9 - Marseille (France) 6–7 février 2025 : Touraine Tech - Tours (France) 25 mars 2025 : ParisTestConf - Paris (France) 3 avril 2025 : DotJS - Paris (France) 10–12 avril 2025 : Devoxx Greece - Athens (Greece) 16–18 avril 2025 : Devoxx France - Paris (France) 7–9 mai 2025 : Devoxx UK - London (UK) 12–13 juin 2025 : DevLille - Lille (France) 24 juin 2025 : WAX 2025 - Aix-en-Provence (France) 18–19 septembre 2025 : API Platform Conference - Lille (France) & Online 9–10 octobre 2025 : Volcamp - Clermont-Ferrand (France) Nous contacter Pour réagir à cet épisode, venez discuter sur le groupe Google https://groups.google.com/group/lescastcodeurs Contactez-nous via twitter https://twitter.com/lescastcodeurs Faire un crowdcast ou une crowdquestion Soutenez Les Cast Codeurs sur Patreon https://www.patreon.com/LesCastCodeurs Tous les épisodes et toutes les infos sur https://lescastcodeurs.com/

Brendan Irvine-Broque, Director of Product at CloudFlare, about the latest updates to CloudFlare Workers, including persistent logging, service bindings, and the cutting-edge Hyperdrive. Discover how these innovations are shaping the future of web development and deployment. Links https://x.com/irvinebroque https://workers.cloudflare.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/brendanirvinebroque https://blog.cloudflare.com/author/brendan-irvine-broque We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket provides AI-first session replay and analytics that surfaces the UX and technical issues impacting user experiences. Start understand where your users are struggling by trying it for free at [LogRocket.com]. Try LogRocket for free today.(https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Brendan Irvine-Broque.

Show DescriptionChris brings some blog posts to talk about including being comfortable with the struggle of developer life, Cloudflare Workers + monorepos, vibe driven development, and questions about database migrations, and whether we think AI free blogs are going to be a rarity in the future? Listen on Website →Links Comfortable with the struggle Cloudflare Workers · Cloudflare Workers docs Wrangler Cloudflare Workers Features • GitHub Actions Azure DevOps Services Yarn Vibe Driven Development Active Record Migrations Prisma Migrate Sponsors

In this episode, Brian LeRoux, co-founder of Begin.com, discusses the evolution and rise of serverless full stack development. Brian shares insights on the history and future of JavaScript, the benefits of serverless architecture, and how front-end developers can leverage these technologies to build scalable and maintainable applications. Links https://brian.io https://webdev.rip https://github.com/brianleroux https://www.npmjs.com/~brianleroux https://twitter.com/brianleroux https://indieweb.social/@brianleroux https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianleroux https://begin.com https://arc.codes https://enhance.dev We want to hear from you! How did you find us? Did you see us on Twitter? In a newsletter? Or maybe we were recommended by a friend? Let us know by sending an email to our producer, Emily, at emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com (mailto:emily.kochanekketner@logrocket.com), or tweet at us at PodRocketPod (https://twitter.com/PodRocketpod). Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket provides AI-first session replay and analytics that surfaces the UX and technical issues impacting user experiences. Start understand where your users are struggling by trying it for free at [LogRocket.com]. Try LogRocket for free today.(https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Brian LeRoux.

In this episode, we talk about the eagerly awaited Elixir 1.17.0-dev changelog, the exciting ExDoc v0.32 release, and the slightly amusing declaration of Cloudflare playing the websocket hero – about 9 years after Phoenix neatly demoed 2 million concurrent connections to the world. We also explore potential performance improvements with Ecto's support for unlogged tables and how PragProg's new Elixir book is shaping up as a must-read for DevOps enthusiasts. But that's not all, we also touch on the launch of a constraint solver in Elixir, a nifty Livebook visualization tip, and more! Plus, don't miss out as Mark, Tyler, and David also share insights into their current projects, ranging from tackling Elixir mock libraries to the latest in the tech conference scene and educational initiatives in the Erlang ecosystem. Show Notes online - http://podcast.thinkingelixir.com/199 (http://podcast.thinkingelixir.com/199) Elixir Community News - https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/blob/main/CHANGELOG.md#v1170-dev (https://github.com/elixir-lang/elixir/blob/main/CHANGELOG.md#v1170-dev?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Elixir 1.17.0-dev changelog update introducing a new Duration type and calendar-specific shifts support. - https://hexdocs.pm/db_connection/DBConnection.Ownership.html#module-callers-lookup (https://hexdocs.pm/db_connection/DBConnection.Ownership.html#module-callers-lookup?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – ExUnit start_supervised now populates $callers, affecting libraries like Mox and Ecto. - https://hexdocs.pm/mox/Mox.html#module-explicit-allowances (https://hexdocs.pm/mox/Mox.html#module-explicit-allowances?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – ExUnit changes with regards to $callers provide better support for global mocks like Mox. - https://github.com/elixir-ecto/ecto_sql/pull/601 (https://github.com/elixir-ecto/ecto_sql/pull/601?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Elixir Ecto experiment for adding support to unlogged tables that could speed up test suites. - https://twitter.com/josevalim/status/1777990973454262476 (https://twitter.com/josevalim/status/1777990973454262476?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Announcement of ExDoc v0.32 release. - https://hexdocs.pm/ex_doc/changelog.html (https://hexdocs.pm/ex_doc/changelog.html?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Official changelogs for ExDoc v0.32 highlighting new features like OS default font for content and search bar improvements. - https://x.com/chris_mccord/status/1776370373946175706 (https://x.com/chris_mccord/status/1776370373946175706?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Cloudflare Workers support for WebSockets and its impact on real-time web experiences. - https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-websockets-in-workers/ (https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-websockets-in-workers/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Introduction and explanation of websockets in Cloudflare Workers. - https://www.phoenixframework.org/blog/the-road-to-2-million-websocket-connections (https://www.phoenixframework.org/blog/the-road-to-2-million-websocket-connections?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Chris McCord's blog post on achieving 2 million WebSocket connections. - https://twitter.com/pragprog/status/1779253657097117890 (https://twitter.com/pragprog/status/1779253657097117890?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Announcement of a new Elixir focused book in beta from PragProg. - https://twitter.com/sm_debenedetto/status/1779558393373409481 (https://twitter.com/sm_debenedetto/status/1779558393373409481?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Additional information about the new PragProg Elixir book. - https://pragprog.com/titles/beamops/engineering-elixir-applications/ (https://pragprog.com/titles/beamops/engineering-elixir-applications/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Direct link to the forthcoming Elixir book on PragProg focused on DevOps for the BEAM ecosystem. - https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/intro (https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/intro?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Introduction to Terraform, as covered in PragProg's new Elixir book. - https://x.com/thibaut_barrere/status/1777702586944036899 (https://x.com/thibaut_barrere/status/1777702586944036899?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Discussion on a constraint solver implementation in Elixir. - https://github.com/bokner/fixpoint (https://github.com/bokner/fixpoint?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Boris Okner's Fixpoint, a constraint solver library for Elixir. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-completeness (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-completeness?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Explanation of NP Completeness related to constraint solving. - https://twitter.com/hugobarauna/status/1779930969593512159 (https://twitter.com/hugobarauna/status/1779930969593512159?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Tip on building custom visualizations for Elixir data structures in Livebook using the Kino.Render protocol. Do you have some Elixir news to share? Tell us at @ThinkingElixir (https://twitter.com/ThinkingElixir) or email at show@thinkingelixir.com (mailto:show@thinkingelixir.com) Discussion Resources - https://cloud.withgoogle.com/next (https://cloud.withgoogle.com/next?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) - https://github.com/brainlid/langchain (https://github.com/brainlid/langchain?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) - https://github.com/dashbitco/mox (https://github.com/dashbitco/mox?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) - https://twitter.com/TylerAYoung/status/1780240662341849256 (https://twitter.com/TylerAYoung/status/1780240662341849256?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Tyler's Tweet about Mox - https://fly.io/phoenix-files/safe-ecto-migrations/ (https://fly.io/phoenix-files/safe-ecto-migrations/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) Guest Host Information - Tyler Young joined as a guest host. - https://twitter.com/TylerAYoung (https://twitter.com/TylerAYoung?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – on Twitter - https://github.com/s3cur3 (https://github.com/s3cur3?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – on Github - https://fosstodon.org/@tylerayoung (https://fosstodon.org/@tylerayoung?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – on Fediverse - https://tylerayoung.com/ (https://tylerayoung.com/?utm_source=thinkingelixir&utm_medium=shownotes) – Blog Find us online - Message the show - @ThinkingElixir (https://twitter.com/ThinkingElixir) - Message the show on Fediverse - @ThinkingElixir@genserver.social (https://genserver.social/ThinkingElixir) - Email the show - show@thinkingelixir.com (mailto:show@thinkingelixir.com) - Mark Ericksen - @brainlid (https://twitter.com/brainlid) - Mark Ericksen on Fediverse - @brainlid@genserver.social (https://genserver.social/brainlid) - David Bernheisel - @bernheisel (https://twitter.com/bernheisel) - David Bernheisel on Fediverse - @dbern@genserver.social (https://genserver.social/dbern)

The group dives into the week's news right away, starting off with a new open source project from Google called Jpegli. Jpepgli is a new JPEG coding library, which claims to compress images up to 35% smaller while also being able to deliver JPEGs in even higher quality than what is currently available today. The GitHub repo the article links to still looks to be in the early stages of development, but this could be a new solution for JPEGs, which traditionally can take quite a bit to load in the browser depending on their size and resolution.The next topic for discussion is a company called Val Town that's raised $5.5M in funding. The premise is that users can write small snippets of code in Val Town's online platform and Val Town will run them in serverless functions and do things like send HTTP requests, run scheduled cron jobs, send emails, and users of the platform can see the “vals” and comment on them, like them, etc. It remains to be seen how much traction this will generate in the web development world, but it seems like an interesting concept lowering the barrier to entry for folks who aren't coding professionals.Jack shares his new declarative routing library for Next.js as another interesting bit of news for the week. Type safe routing in packages like React Router and Tanstack Router are becoming the preferred method of writing routes, but it's still a very manual process without a lot of autocompletion and input validation that we've come to expect in TypeScript code today, and the Declarative Routing library aims to bring that same level of comfort and coding niceties to routes in Next.js. It's also OSS, so if you're interested in contributing to open source, check it out!Finally, Cloudflare made the announcement that they've acquired OSS platform PartyKit. PartyKit, started by former Cloudflare employee Sunil Pai, is focused on making real-time, collaborative, multiplayer functionality within apps easy. It handles that aspect through the use of Cloudflare Durable Objects and Cloudflare Workers, so that developers can focus on the logic that makes their apps unique, and it seems like a well-made match to bring PartyKit under the official Cloudflare umbrella. The future roadmap is focused on integrations with popular frameworks like React, Vue, and Angular, so expect to hear more about this in the future.News:Paige - Google introduces Jpegli, a new JPEG coding libraryJack - Jack Herrington's declarative routing libraryTJ - Val Town Raises $5.5M Bonus News:Cloudflare acquires PartyKitWhat Makes Us Happy this Week:Paige - Fallout TV seriesJack - PhotographyTJ - The Guest ListThanks as always to our sponsor, the Blue Collar Coder channel on YouTube. You can join us in our Discord channel, reach out to us via email or Tweet us on X @front_end_fire.Blue Collar Coder on YouTubeBlue Collar Coder on DiscordReach out via emailTweet at us on X @front_end_fire

Fabi und Philipp spekulieren mal wieder über mögliche AI-Inhalte auf der WWDC, da ein Tweet vom SVP Global Marketing von Apple etwas zu verraten scheint. OpenAI stellt das synthetische Voice Model „Voice Engine“ vor und verbessert die Fine-Tuning-Möglichkeiten der LLMs. Um Stability AI scheint es aufgrund von Zahlungsschwierigkeiten nicht so gut zu stehen. Replit hat den Developer Day abgehalten und Cloudflare bringt zusammen mit HuggingFace die Cloudflare Workers AI raus.Diese Models haben wir darüber hinaus in dieser Folge vorgestellt:Grok-1.5DBRX von Databricks (MoE)Cohere C4AI Command R+CodeGemma – frisch von der Google NextQwen1.5 (MoE)JambaSoundtrack composed by AIVA (Artificial Intelligence Virtual Artist)Schreibt uns! Schickt uns eure Themenwünsche und euer Feedback: podcast@programmier.barFolgt uns! Bleibt auf dem Laufenden über zukünftige Folgen und virtuelle Meetups und beteiligt euch an Community-Diskussionen. TwitterInstagramFacebookMeetupYouTube

In this supper club episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott talk with Rita Kozlov And Brendan Irvine-Broque about Cloudflare Workers, Cloudflare AI, browser rendering API, Cloudflare's D1 database, WinterCG, miniflare, and more! Show Notes 00:32 Welcome 01:53 Syntax Brought to you by Sentry 02:20 What are Cloudflare Workers? Announcing WinterJS Cloudflare Workers® Puppeteer | Puppeteer 06:23 How long did Workers take to ship? 07:31 Can you run your entire business on Cloudflare Workers? 10:52 Interesting use cases for Cloudflare Workers 12:33 What makes the edge important? 18:05 Managing GDPR compliance 19:02 What are the tradeoffs of building with Cloudflare Workers? Cloudflare Queues 20:22 How does Workers pricing work? 26:54 What are situations where you might need longer times? 28:50 Browser rendering API Browser Rendering docs 29:43 What is Cloudflare D1 database product? Cloudflare D1 31:05 Cloudflare Hyperdrive Hyperdrive “Serverless” Databases 34:27 Cloudflare Workers don't use a Node.js runtime Introducing workerd: the Open Source Workers runtime 37:13 What is WinterCG? WinterCG 45:09 Will we ever see a standard for server routing? TCP sockets · Cloudflare Workers docs 49:30 What is miniflare?

Matthew Prince, Co-founder & CEO at Cloudflare, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss how and why Cloudflare is working to solve some of the Internet's biggest problems. Matthew reveals some of his biggest issues with cloud providers, including the tendency to charge more for egress than ingress and the fact that the various clouds don't compete on a feature vs. feature basis. Corey and Matthew also discuss how Cloudflare is working to change those issues so the Internet is a better and more secure place. Matthew also discusses how transparency has been key to winning trust in the community and among Cloudflare's customers, and how he hopes the Internet and cloud providers will evolve over time.About MatthewMatthew Prince is co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare. Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. Today the company runs one of the world's largest networks, which spans more than 200 cities in over 100 countries. Matthew is a World Economic Forum Technology Pioneer, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, winner of the 2011 Tech Fellow Award, and serves on the Board of Advisors for the Center for Information Technology and Privacy Law. Matthew holds an MBA from Harvard Business School where he was a George F. Baker Scholar and awarded the Dubilier Prize for Entrepreneurship. He is a member of the Illinois Bar, and earned his J.D. from the University of Chicago and B.A. in English Literature and Computer Science from Trinity College. He's also the co-creator of Project Honey Pot, the largest community of webmasters tracking online fraud and abuse.Links Referenced: Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/eastdakota TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. One of the things we talk about here, an awful lot is cloud providers. There sure are a lot of them, and there's the usual suspects that you would tend to expect with to come up, and there are companies that work within their ecosystem. And then there are the enigmas.Today, I'm talking to returning guest Matthew Prince, Cloudflare CEO and co-founder, who… well first, welcome back, Matthew. I appreciate your taking the time to come and suffer the slings and arrows a second time.Matthew: Corey, thanks for having me.Corey: What I'm trying to do at the moment is figure out where Cloudflare lives in the context of the broad ecosystem because you folks have released an awful lot. You had this vaporware-style announcement of R2, which was an S3 competitor, that then turned out to be real. And oh, it's always interesting, when vapor congeals into something that actually exists. Cloudflare Workers have been around for a while and I find that they become more capable every time I turn around. You have Cloudflare Tunnel which, to my understanding, is effectively a VPN without the VPN overhead. And it feels that you are coming at building a cloud provider almost from the other side than the traditional cloud provider path. Is it accurate? Am I missing something obvious? How do you see yourselves?Matthew: Hey, you know, I think that, you know, you can often tell a lot about a company by what they measure and what they measure themselves by. And so, if you're at a traditional, you know, hyperscale public cloud, an AWS or a Microsoft Azure or a Google Cloud, the key KPI that they focus on is how much of a customer's data are they hoarding, effectively? They're all hoarding clouds, fundamentally. Whereas at Cloudflare, we focus on something of it's very different, which is, how effectively are we moving a customer's data from one place to another? And so, while the traditional hyperscale public clouds are all focused on keeping your data and making sure that they have as much of it, what we're really focused on is how do we make sure your data is wherever you need it to be and how do we connect all of the various things together?So, I think it's exactly right, where we start with a network and are kind of building more functions on top of that network, whereas other companies start really with a database—the traditional hyperscale public clouds—and the network is sort of an afterthought on top of it, just you know, a cost center on what they're delivering. And I think that describes a lot of the difference between us and everyone else. And so oftentimes, we work very much in conjunction with. A lot of our customers use hyperscale public clouds and Cloudflare, but increasingly, there are certain applications, there's certain data that just makes sense to live inside the network itself, and in those cases, customers are using things like R2, they're using our Workers platform in order to be able to build applications that will be available everywhere around the world and incredibly performant. And I think that is fundamentally the difference. We're all about moving data between places, making sure it's available everywhere, whereas the traditional hyperscale public clouds are all about hoarding that data in one place.Corey: I want to clarify that when you say hoard, I think of this, from my position as a cloud economist, as effectively in an economic story where hoarding the data, they get to charge you for hosting it, they get to charge you serious prices for egress. I've had people mishear that before in a variety of ways, usually distilled down to, “Oh, and their data mining all of their customers' data.” And I want to make sure that that's not the direction that you intend the term to be used. If it is, then great, we can talk about that, too. I just want to make sure that I don't get letters because God forbid we get letters for things that we say in the public.Matthew: No, I mean, I had an aunt who was a hoarder and she collected every piece of everything and stored it somewhere in her tiny little apartment in the panhandle of Florida. I don't think she looked at any of it and for the most part, I don't think that AWS or Google or Microsoft are really using your data in any way that's nefarious, but they're definitely not going to make it easy for you to get it out of those places; they're going to make it very, very expensive. And again, what they're measuring is how much of a customer's data are they holding onto whereas at Cloudflare we're measuring how much can we enable you to move your data around and connected wherever you need it. And again, I think that that kind of gets to the fundamental difference between how we think of the world and how I think the hyperscale public clouds thing of the world. And it also gets to where are the places where it makes sense to use Cloudflare, and where are the places that it makes sense to use an AWS or Google Cloud or Microsoft Azure.Corey: So, I have to ask, and this gets into the origin story trope a bit, but what radicalized you? For me, it was the realization one day that I could download two terabytes of data from S3 once, and it would cost significantly more than having Amazon.com ship me a two-terabyte hard drive from their store.Matthew: I think that—so Cloudflare started with the basic idea that the internet's not as good as it should be. If we all knew what the internet was going to be used for and what we're all going to depend on it for, we would have made very different decisions in how it was designed. And we would have made sure that security was built in from day one, we would have—you know, the internet is very reliable and available, but there are now airplanes that can't land if the internet goes offline, they are shopping transactions shut down if the internet goes offline. And so, I don't think we understood—we made it available to some extent, but not nearly to the level that we all now depend on it. And it wasn't as fast or as efficient as it possibly could be. It's still very dependent on the geography of where data is located.And so, Cloudflare started out by saying, “Can we fix that? Can we go back and effectively patch the internet and make it what it should have been when we set down the original protocols in the '60s, '70s, and '80s?” But can we go back and say, can we build a new, sort of, overlay on the internet that solves those problems: make it more secure, make it more reliable, make it faster and more efficient? And so, I think that that's where we started, and as a result of, again, starting from that place, it just made fundamental sense that our job was, how do you move data from one place to another and do it in all of those ways? And so, where I think that, again, the hyperscale public clouds measure themselves by how much of a customer's data are they hoarding; we measure ourselves by how easy are we making it to securely, reliably, and efficiently move any piece of data from one place to another.And so, I guess, that is radical compared to some of the business models of the traditional cloud providers, but it just seems like what the internet should be. And that's our North Star and that's what just continues to drive us and I think is a big reason why more and more customers continue to rely on Cloudflare.Corey: The thing that irks me potentially the most in the entire broad strokes of cloud is how the actions of the existing hyperscalers have reflected mostly what's going on in the larger world. Moore's law has been going on for something like 100 years now. And compute continues to get faster all the time. Storage continues to cost less year over year in a variety of ways. But they have, on some level, tricked an entire generation of businesses into believing that network bandwidth is this precious, very finite thing, and of course, it's going to be ridiculously expensive. You know, unless you're taking it inbound, in which case, oh, by all means back the truck around. It'll be great.So, I've talked to founders—or prospective founders—who had ideas but were firmly convinced that there was no economical way to build it. Because oh, if I were to start doing real-time video stuff, well, great, let's do the numbers on this. And hey, that'll be $50,000 a minute, if I read the pricing page correctly, it's like, well, you could get some discounts if you ask nicely, but it doesn't occur to them that they could wind up asking for a 98% discount on these things. Everything is measured in a per gigabyte dimension and that just becomes one of those things where people are starting to think about and meter something that—from my days in data centers where you care about the size of the pipe and not what's passing through it—to be the wrong way of thinking about things.Matthew: A little of this is that everybody is colored by their experience of dealing with their ISP at home. And in the United States, in a lot of the world, ISPs are built on the old cable infrastructure. And if you think about the cable infrastructure, when it was originally laid down, it was all one-directional. So, you know, if you were turning on cable in your house in a pre-internet world, data fl—Corey: Oh, you'd watch a show and your feedback was yelling at the TV, and that's okay. They would drop those packets.Matthew: And there was a tiny, tiny, tiny bit of data that would go back the other direction, but cable was one-directional. And so, it actually took an enormous amount of engineering to make cable bi-directional. And that's the reason why if you're using a traditional cable company as your ISP, typically you will have a large amount of download capacity, you'll have, you know, a 100 megabits of down capacity, but you might only have a 10th of that—so maybe ten megabits—of upload capacity. That is an artifact of the cable system. That is not just the natural way that the internet works.And the way that it is different, that wholesale bandwidth works, is that when you sign up for wholesale bandwidth—again, as you phrase it, you're not buying this many bytes that flows over the line; you're buying, effectively, a pipe. You know, the late Senator Ted Stevens said that the internet is just a series of tubes and got mocked mercilessly, but the internet is just a series of tubes. And when Cloudflare or AWS or Google or Microsoft buys one of those tubes, what they pay for is the diameter of the tube, the amount that can fit through it. And the nature of this is you don't just get one tube, you get two. One that is down and one that is up. And they're the same size.And so, if you've got a terabit of traffic coming down and zero going up, that costs exactly the same as a terabit going up and zero going down, which costs exactly the same as a terabit going down and a terabit going up. It is different than your home, you know, cable internet connection. And that's the thing that I think a lot of people don't understand. And so, as you pointed out, but the great tragedy of the cloud is that for nothing other than business reasons, these hyperscale public cloud companies don't charge you anything to accept data—even though that is actually the more expensive of the two operations for that because writes are more expensive than reads—but the inherent fact that they were able to suck the data in means that they have the capacity, at no additional cost, to be able to send that data back out. And so, I think that, you know, the good news is that you're starting to see some providers—so Cloudflare, we've never charged for egress because, again, we think that over time, bandwidth prices go to zero because it just makes sense; it makes sense for ISPs, it makes sense for connectiv—to be connected to us.And that's something that we can do, but even in the cases of the cloud providers where maybe they're all in one place and somebody has to pay to backhaul the traffic around the world, maybe there's some cost, but you're starting to see some pressure from some of the more forward-leaning providers. So Oracle, I think has done a good job of leaning in and showing how egress fees are just out of control. But it's crazy that in some cases, you have a 4,000x markup on AWS bandwidth fees. And that's assuming that they're paying the same rates as what we would get at Cloudflare, you know, even though we are a much smaller company than they are, and they should be able to get even better prices.Corey: Yes, if there's one thing Amazon is known for, it as being bad at negotiating. Yeah, sure it is. I'm sure that they're just a terrific joy to be a vendor to.Matthew: Yeah, and I think that fundamentally what the price of bandwidth is, is tied very closely to what the cost of a port on a router costs. And what we've seen over the course of the last ten years is that cost has just gone enormously down where the capacity of that port has gone way up and the just physical cost, the depreciated cost that port has gone down. And yet, when you look at Amazon, you just haven't seen a decrease in the cost of bandwidth that they're passing on to customers. And so, again, I think that this is one of the places where you're starting to see regulators pay attention, we've seen efforts in the EU to say whatever you charge to take data out is the same as what you should charge it to put data in. We're seeing the FTC start to look at this, and we're seeing customers that are saying that this is a purely anti-competitive action.And, you know, I think what would be the best and healthiest thing for the cloud by far is if we made it easy to move between various cloud providers. Because right now the choice is, do I use AWS or Google or Microsoft, whereas what I think any company out there really wants to be able to do is they want to be able to say, “I want to use this feature at AWS because they're really good at that and I want to use this other feature at Google because they're really good at that, and I want to us this other feature at Microsoft, and I want to mix and match between those various things.” And I think that if you actually got cloud providers to start competing on features as opposed to competing on their overall platform, we'd actually have a much richer and more robust cloud environment, where you'd see a significantly improved amount of what's going on, as opposed to what we have now, which is AWS being mediocre at everything.Corey: I think that there's also a story where for me, the egress is annoying, but so is the cross-region and so is the cross-AZ, which in many cases costs exactly the same. And that frustrates me from the perspective of, yes, if you have two data centers ten miles apart, there is some startup costs to you in running fiber between them, however you want to wind up with that working, but it's a sunk cost. But at the end of that, though, when you wind up continuing to charge on a per gigabyte basis to customers on that, you're making them decide on a very explicit trade-off of, do I care more about cost or do I care more about reliability? And it's always going to be an investment decision between those two things, but when you make the reasonable approach of well, okay, an availability zone rarely goes down, and then it does, you get castigated by everyone for, “Oh it even says in their best practice documents to go ahead and build it this way.” It's funny how a lot of the best practice documents wind up suggesting things that accrue primarily to a cloud provider's benefit. But that's the way of the world I suppose.I just know, there's a lot of customer frustration on it and in my client environments, it doesn't seem to be very acute until we tear apart a bill and look at where they're spending money, and on what, at which point, the dawning realization, you can watch it happen, where they suddenly realize exactly where their money is going—because it's relatively impenetrable without that—and then they get angry. And I feel like if people don't know what they're being charged for, on some level, you've messed up.Matthew: Yeah. So, there's cost to running a network, but there's no reason other than limiting competition why you would charge more to take data out than you would put data in. And that's a puzzle. The cross-region thing, you know, I think where we're seeing a lot of that is actually oftentimes, when you've got new technologies that come out and they need to take advantage of some scarce resource. And so, AI—and all the AI companies are a classic example of this—right now, if you're trying to build a model, an AI model, you are hunting the world for available GPUs at a reasonable price because there's an enormous scarcity of them.And so, you need to move from AWS East to AWS West, to AWS, you know, Singapore, to AWS in Luxembourg and bounce around to find wherever there's GPU availability. And then that is crossed against the fact that these training datasets are huge. You know, I mean, they're just massive, massive, massive amounts of data. And so, what that is doing is you're having these AI companies that are really seeing this get hit in the face, where they literally can't get the capacity they need because of the fact that whatever cloud provider in whatever region they've selected to store their data isn't able to have that capacity. And so, they're getting hit not only by sort of a double whammy of, “I need to move my data to wherever there's capacity. And if I don't do that, then I have to pay some premium, an ever-escalating price for the underlying GPUs.” And God forbid, you have to move from AWS to Google to chase that.And so, we're seeing a lot of companies that are saying, “This doesn't make any sense. We have this enormous training set. If we just put it with Cloudflare, this is data that makes sense to live in the network, fundamentally.” And not everything does. Like, we're not the right place to store your long-term transaction logs that you're only going to look at if you get sued. There are much better places, much more effective places do it.But in those cases where you've got to read data frequently, you've got to read it from different places around the world, and you will need to decrease what those costs of each one of those reads are, what we're seeing is just an enormous amount of demand for that. And I think these AI startups are really just a very clear example of what company after company after company needs, and why R2 has had—which is our zero egress cost S3 competitor—why that is just seeing such explosive growth from a broad set of customers.Corey: Because I enjoy pushing the bounds of how ridiculous I can be on the internet, I wound up grabbing a copy of the model, the Llama 2 model that Meta just released earlier this week as we're recording this. And it was great. It took a little while to download here. I have gigabit internet, so okay, it took some time. But then I wound up with something like 330 gigs of models. Great, awesome.Except for the fact that I do the math on that and just for me as one person to download that, had they been paying the listed price on the AWS website, they would have spent a bit over $30, just for me as one random user to download the model, once. If you can express that into the idea of this is a model that is absolutely perfect for whatever use case, but we want to have it run with some great GPUs available at another cloud provider. Let's move the model over there, ignoring the data it's operating on as well, it becomes completely untenable. It really strikes me as an anti-competitiveness issue.Matthew: Yeah. I think that's it. That's right. And that's just the model. To build that model, you would have literally millions of times more data that was feeding it. And so, the training sets for that model would be many, many, many, many, many, many orders of magnitude larger in terms of what's there. And so, I think the AI space is really illustrating where you have this scarce resource that you need to chase around the world, you have these enormous datasets, it's illustrating how these egress fees are actually holding back the ability for innovation to happen.And again, they are absolutely—there is no valid reason why you would charge more for egress than you do for ingress other than limiting competition. And I think the good news, again, is that's something that's gotten regulators' attention, that's something that's gotten customers' attention, and over time, I think we all benefit. And I think actually, AWS and Google and Microsoft actually become better if we start to have more competition on a feature-by-feature basis as opposed to on an overall platform. The choice shouldn't be, “I use AWS.” And any big company, like, nobody is all-in only on one cloud provider. Everyone is multi-cloud, whether they want to be or not because people end up buying another company or some skunkworks team goes off and uses some other function.So, you are across multiple different clouds, whether you want to be or not. But the ideal, and when I talk to customers, they want is, they want to say, “Well, you know that stuff that they're doing over at Microsoft with AI, that sounds really interesting. I want to use that, but I really like the maturity and robustness of some of the EC2 API, so I want to use that at AWS. And Google is still, you know, the best in the world at doing search and indexing and everything, so I want to use that as well, in order to build my application.” And the applications of the future will inherently stitch together different features from different cloud providers, different startups.And at Cloudflare, what we see is our, sort of, purpose for being is how do we make that stitching as easy as possible, as cost-effective as possible, and make it just make sense so that you have one consistent security layer? And again, we're not about hording the data; we're about connecting all of those things together. And again, you know, from the last time we talked to now, I'm actually much more optimistic that you're going to see, kind of, this revolution where egress prices go down, you get competition on feature-by-features, and that's just going to make every cloud provider better over the long-term.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Panoptica.  Panoptica simplifies container deployment, monitoring, and security, protecting the entire application stack from build to runtime. Scalable across clusters and multi-cloud environments, Panoptica secures containers, serverless APIs, and Kubernetes with a unified view, reducing operational complexity and promoting collaboration by integrating with commonly used developer, SRE, and SecOps tools. Panoptica ensures compliance with regulatory mandates and CIS benchmarks for best practice conformity. Privacy teams can monitor API traffic and identify sensitive data, while identifying open-source components vulnerable to attacks that require patching. Proactively addressing security issues with Panoptica allows businesses to focus on mitigating critical risks and protecting their interests. Learn more about Panoptica today at panoptica.app.Corey: I don't know that I would trust you folks to the long-term storage of critical data or the store of record on that. You don't have the track record on that as a company the way that you do for being the network interchange that makes everything just work together. There are areas where I'm thrilled to explore and see how it works, but it takes time, at least from the sensible infrastructure perspective of trusting people with track records on these things. And you clearly have the network track record on these things to make this stick. It almost—it seems unfair to you folks, but I view you as Cloudflare is a CDN, that also dabbles in a few other things here in there, though, increasingly, it seems it's CDN and security company are becoming synonymous.Matthew: It's interesting. I remember—and this really is going back to the origin story, but when we were starting Cloudflare, you know, what we saw was that, you know, we watched as software—starting with companies like Salesforce—transition from something that you bought in the box to something that you bought as a service [into 00:23:25] the cloud. We watched as, sort of, storage and compute transition from something that you bought from Dell or HP to something that you rented as a service. And so the fundamental problem that Cloudflare started out with was if the software and the storage and compute are going to move, inherently the security and the networking is going to move as well because it has to be as a service as well, there's no way you can buy a you know, Cisco firewall and stick it in front of your cloud service. You have to be in the cloud as well.So, we actually started very much as a security company. And the objection that everybody had to us as we would sort of go out and describe what we were planning on doing was, “You know, that sounds great, but you're going to slow everything down.” And so, we became just obsessed with latency. And Michelle, my co-founder, and I were business students and we had an advisor, a guy named Tom [Eisenmann 00:24:26] in business school. And I remember going in and that was his objection as well and so we did all this work to figure it out.And obviously, you know, I'd say computer science, and anytime that you have a problem around latency or speed caching is an obvious part of the solution to that. And so, we went in and we said, “Here's how we're going to do it: [unintelligible 00:24:47] all this protocol optimization stuff, and here's how we're going to distribute it around the world and get close to where users are. And we're going to use caching in the places where we can do caching.” And Tom said, “Oh, you're building a CDN.” And I remember looking at him and then I'm looking at Michelle. And Michelle is Canadian, and so I was like, “I don't know that I'm building a Canadian, but I guess. I don't know.”And then, you know, we walked out in the hall and Michelle looked at me and she's like, “We have to go figure out what the CDN thing is.” And we had no idea what a CDN was. And even when we learned about it, we were like, that business doesn't make any sense. Like because again, the CDNs were the first ones to really charge for bandwidth. And so today, we have effectively built, you know, a giant CDN and are the fastest in the world and do all those things.But we've always given it away basically for free because fundamentally, what we're trying to do is all that other stuff. And so, we actually started with security. Security is—you know, my—I've been working in security now for over 25 years and that's where my background comes from, and if you go back and look at what the original plan was, it was how do we provide that security as a service? And yeah, you need to have caching because caching makes sense. What I think is the difference is that in order to do that, in order to be able to build that, we had to build a set of developer tools for our own team to allow them to build things as quickly as possible.And, you know, if you look at Cloudflare, I think one of the things we're known for is just the rapid, rapid, rapid pace of innovation. And so, over time, customers would ask us, “How do you innovate so fast? How do you build things fast?” And part of the answer to that, there are lots of ways that we've been able to do that, but part of the answer to that is we built a developer platform for our own team, which was just incredibly flexible, allowed you to scale to almost any level, took care of a lot of that traditional SRE functions just behind the scenes without you having to think about it, and it allowed our team to be really fast. And our customers are like, “Wow, I want that too.”And so, customer after customer after customer after customer was asking and saying, you know, “We have those same problems. You know, if we're a big e-commerce player, we need to be able to build something that can scale up incredibly quickly, and we don't have to think about spinning up VMs or containers or whatever, we don't have to think about that. You know, our customers are around the world. We don't want to have to pick a region for where we're going to deploy code.” And so, where we built Cloudflare Workers for ourself first, customers really pushed us to make it available to them as well.And that's the way that almost any good developer platform starts out. That's how AWS started. That's how, you know, the Microsoft developer platform, and so the Apple developer platform, the Salesforce developer platform, they all start out as internal tools, and then someone says, “Can you expose this to us as well?” And that's where, you know, I think that we have built this. And again, it's very opinionated, it is right for certain applications, it's never going to be the right place to run SAP HANA, but the company that builds the tool [crosstalk 00:27:58]—Corey: I'm not convinced there is a right place to run SAP HANA, but that's probably unfair of me.Matthew: Yeah, but there is a startup out there, I guarantee you, that's building whatever the replacement for SAP HANA is. And I think it's a better than even bet that Cloudflare Workers is part of their stack because it solves a lot of those fundamental challenges. And that's been great because it is now allowing customer after customer after customer, big and large startups and multinationals, to do things that you just can't do with traditional legacy hyperscale public cloud. And so, I think we're sort of the next generation of building that. And again, I don't think we set out to build a developer platform for third parties, but we needed to build it for ourselves and that's how we built such an effective tool that now so many companies are relying on.Corey: As a Cloudflare customer myself, I think that one of the things that makes you folks standalone—it's why I included security as well as CDN is one of the things I trust you folks with—has been—Matthew: I still think CDN is Canadian. You will never see us use that term. It's like, Gartner was like, “You have to submit something for the CDN-like ser—” and we ended up, like, being absolute top-right in it. But it's a space that is inherently going to zero because again, if bandwidth is free, I'm not sure what—this is what the internet—how the internet should work. So yeah, anyway.Corey: I agree wholeheartedly. But what I've always enjoyed, and this is probably going to make me sound meaner than I intend it to, it has been your outages. Because when computers inherently at some point break, which is what they do, you personally and you as a company have both taken a tone that I don't want to say gleeful, but it's sort of the next closest thing to it regarding the postmortem that winds up getting published, the explanation of what caused it, the transparency is unheard of at companies that are your scale, where usually they want to talk about these things as little as possible. Whereas you've turned these into things that are educational to those of us who don't have the same scale to worry about but can take things from that are helpful. And that transparency just counts for so much when we're talking about things as critical as security.Matthew: I would definitely not describe it as gleeful. It is incredibly painful. And we, you know, we know we let customers down anytime we have an issue. But we tend not to make the same mistake twice. And the only way that we really can reliably do that is by being just as transparent as possible about exactly what happened.And we hope that others can learn from the mistakes that we made. And so, we own the mistakes we made and we talk about them and we're transparent, both internally but also externally when there's a problem. And it's really amazing to just see how much, you know, we've improved over time. So, it's actually interesting that, you know, if you look across—and we measure, we test and measure all the big hyperscale public clouds, what their availability and reliability is and measure ourselves against it, and across the board, second half of 2021 and into the first half of 2022 was the worst for every cloud provider in terms of reliability. And the question is why?And the answer is, Covid. I mean, the answer to most things over the last three years is in one way, directly or indirectly, Covid. But what happened over that period of time was that in April of 2020, internet traffic and traffic to our service and everyone who's like us doubled over the course of a two-week period. And there are not many utilities that you can imagine that if their usage doubles, that you wouldn't have a problem. Imagine the sewer system all of a sudden has twice as much sewage, or the electrical grid as twice as much demand, or the freeways have twice as many cars. Like, things break down.And especially the European internet came incredibly close to just completely failing at that time. And we all saw where our bottlenecks were. And what's interesting is actually the availability wasn't so bad in 2020 because people were—they understood the absolute critical importance that while we're in the middle of a pandemic, we had to make sure the internet worked. And so, we—there were a lot of sleepless nights, there's a—and not just at with us, but with every provider that's out there. We were all doing Herculean tasks in order to make sure that things came online.By the time we got to the sort of the second half of 2021, what everybody did, Cloudflare included, was we looked at it, and we said, “Okay, here were where the bottlenecks were. Here were the problems. What can we do to rearchitect our systems to do that?” And one of the things that we saw was that we effectively treated large data centers as one big block, and if you had certain pieces of equipment that failed in a way, that you would take that entire data center down and then that could have cascading effects across traffic as it shifted around across our network. And so, we did the work to say, “Let's take that one big data center and divide it effectively into multiple independent units, where you make sure that they're all on different power suppliers, you make sure they're all in different [crosstalk 00:32:52]”—Corey: [crosstalk 00:32:51] harder than it sounds. When you have redundant things, very often, the thing that takes you down the most is the heartbeat that determines whether something next to it is up or not. It gets a false reading and suddenly, they're basically trying to clobber each other to death. So, this is a lot harder than it sounds like.Matthew: Yeah, and it was—but what's interesting is, like, we took it all that into account, but the act of fixing things, you break things. And that was not just true at Cloudflare. If you look across Google and Microsoft and Amazon, everybody, their worst availability was second half of 2021 or into 2022. But it both internally and externally, we talked about the mistakes we made, we talked about the challenges we had, we talked about—and today, we're significantly more resilient and more reliable because of that. And so, transparency is built into Cloudflare from the beginning.The earliest story of this, I remember, there was a 15-year-old kid living in Long Beach, California who bought my social security number off of a Russian website that had hacked a bank that I'd once used to get a mortgage. He then use that to redirect my cell phone voicemail to a voicemail box he controlled. He then used that to get into my personal email. He then used that to find a zero-day vulnerability in Google's corporate email where he could privilege-escalate from my personal email into Google's corporate email, which is the provider that we use for our email service. And then he used that as an administrator on our email at the time—this is back in the early days of Cloudflare—to get into another administration account that he then used to redirect one of Cloud Source customers to a website that he controlled.And thankfully, it wasn't, you know, the FBI or the Central Bank of Brazil, which were all Cloudflare customers. Instead, it was 4chan because he was a 15-year-old hacker kid. And we fix it pretty quickly and nobody knew who Cloudflare was at the time. And so potential—Corey: The potential damage that could have been caused at that point with that level of access to things, like, that is such a ridiculous way to use it.Matthew: And—yeah [laugh]—my temptation—because it was embarrassing. He took a bunch of stuff from my personal email and he put it up on a website, which just to add insult to injury, was actually using Cloudflare as well. And I wanted to sweep it under the rug. And our team was like, “That's not the right thing to do. We're fundamentally a security company and we need to talk about when we make mistakes on security.” And so, we wrote a huge postmortem on, “Here's all the stupid things that we did that caused this hack to happen.” And by the way, it wasn't just us. It was AT&T, it was Google. I mean, there are a lot of people that ended up being involved.Corey: It builds trust with that stuff. It's painful in the short term, but I believe with the benefit of hindsight, it was clearly the right call.Matthew: And it was—and I remember, you know, pushing ‘publish' on the blog post and thinking, “This is going to be the end of the company.” And quite the opposite happened, which was all of a sudden, we saw just an incredible amount of people who signed up the next day saying, “If you're going to be that transparent about something that was incredibly embarrassing when you didn't have to be, then that's the sort of thing that actually makes me trust that you're going to be transparent the future.” And I think learning that lesson early on, has been just an incredibly valuable lesson for us and made us the company that we are today.Corey: A question that I have for you about the idea of there being no reason to charge in one direction but not the other. There's something that I'm not sure that I understand on this. If I run a website, to use your numbers of a terabit out—because it's a web server—and effectively nothing in—because it's a webserver; other than the request, nothing really is going to come in—that ingress bandwidth becomes effectively unused and also free. So, if I have another use case where I'm paying for it anyway, if I'm primarily caring about an outward direction, sure, you can send things in for free. Now, there's a lot of nuance that goes into that. But I'm curious as to what the—is their fundamental misunderstanding in that analysis of the bandwidth market?Matthew: No. And I think that's exactly, exactly right. And it's actually interesting. At Cloudflare, our infrastructure team—which is the one that manages our connections to the outside world, manages the hardware we have—meets on a quarterly basis with our product team. It's called the Hot and Cold Meeting.And what they do is they go over our infrastructure, and they say, “Okay, where are we hot? Where do we have not enough capacity?” If you think of any given server, an easy way to think of a server is that it has, sort of, four resources that are available to it. This is, kind of, vast simplification, but one is the connectivity to the outside world, both transit in and out. The second is the—Corey: Otherwise it's just a complicated space heater.Matthew: Yeah [laugh]. The other is the CPU. The other is the longer-term storage. We use only SSDs, but sort of, you know, hard drives or SSD storage. And then the fourth is the short-term storage, or RAM that's in that server.And so, at any given moment, there are going to be places where we are running hot, where we have a sort of capacity level that we're targeting and we're over that capacity level, but we're also going to be running cold in some of those areas. And so, the infrastructure team and the product team get together and the product team has requests on, you know, “Here's some more places we would be great to have more infrastructure.” And we're really good at deploying that when we need to, but the infrastructure team then also says, “Here are the places where we're cold, where we have excess capacity.” And that turns into products at Cloudflare. So, for instance, you know, the reason that we got into the zero-trust space was very much because we had all this excess capacity.We have 100 times the capacity of something like Zscaler across our network, and we can add that—that is primar—where most of our older products are all about outward traffic, the zero-trust products are all about inward traffic. And the reason that we can do everything that Zscaler does, but for, you know, a much, much, much more affordable prices, we going to basically just layer that on the network that already exists. The reason we don't charge for the bandwidth behind DDoS attacks is DDoS attacks are always about inbound traffic and we have just a ton of excess capacity around that inbound traffic. And so, that unused capacity is a resource that we can then turn into products, and very much that conversation between our product team and our infrastructure team drives how we think about building new products. And we're always trying to say how can we get as much utilization out of every single piece of equipment that we run everywhere in the world.The way we build our network, we don't have custom machines or different networks for every products. We build all of our machines—they come in generations. So, we're on, I think, generation 14 of servers where we spec a server and it has, again, a certain amount of each of those four [bits 00:39:22] of capacity. But we can then deploy that server all around the world, and we're buying many, many, many of them at any given time so we can get the best cost on that. But our product team is very much in constant communication with our infrastructure team and saying, “What more can we do with the capacity that we have?” And then we pass that on to our customers by adding additional features that work across our network and then doing it in a way that's incredibly cost-effective.Corey: I really want to thank you for taking the time to, basically once again, suffer slings and arrows about networking, security, cloud, economics, and so much more. If people want to learn more, where's the best place for them to find you?Matthew: You know, used to be an easy question to answer because it was just, you know, go on Twitter and find me but now we have all these new mediums. So, I'm @eastdakota on Twitter. I'm eastdakota.com on Bluesky. I'm @real_eastdakota on Threads. And so, you know, one way or another, if you search for eastdakota, you'll come across me somewhere out there in the ether.Corey: And we will, of course, put links to that in the show notes. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.Matthew: It's great to talk to you, Corey.Corey: Matthew Prince, CEO and co-founder of Cloudflare. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with an angry, insulting comment that I will of course not charge you inbound data rates on.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

On this episode of Remote Ruby, the guys discuss various topics relating to hosting options, web frameworks, open source projects, and give us a recap on RailsConf 2023.  They dive into the pros and cons of serverless architectures like Lambda, Jason's experience with Roda, their interests in front-end technologies and JavaScript integration in Rails, and Andrew tells us about regex for playground. We'll hear their thoughts on RailsConf, their favorite talks, Chris's workshop, things that could have been better, and the importance of community contributions, transparency, and the need for clearer communication. Also, if you missed this RailsConf, they mention some other conferences coming up, so hit download to hear more![00:00:10] Chris brings up the blog post on Amazon's AWS blog which sparks a discussion about the effectiveness of serverless architectures like Lambda. [00:02:02] The conversation shifts to Jason telling us his experience with building a microservice using Roda. Then he tells us the benefits of Roda and compared it to Sinatra, and now Andrew wants to upgrade his Sinatra app to Roda since Jason had such a positive experience.[00:05:48] Cloudflare Workers, Puppeteer, Rust and JavaScript are discussed. [00:09:06] Chris shares his thoughts on RailsConf, mentioning attendance was smaller than expected. The guys also bring up that there was no hallway track and the spread out nature of the event, which made it less conducive to casual networking and impromptu conversations. Chris enjoyed the keynotes and attending a talk by Jordan Burke on hosting with Hatchbox, Fly , and Render. [00:12:10] There's a conversation on the need for more direction and talks on front-end technologies and JavaScript integration in Rails, and where to go if you want to learn more about these topics and contribute to the community. [00:14:26] Chris shares his takeaway from RailsConf, mentioning his interest in reading Rails commits daily to stay up to date with the community's progress. He also talks about his favorite part of the conference was an encounter with a Lightning Talk presenter who worked on the same project he did 13 years ago.  [00:17:16] Jumpstart Pro has been updated to Rails 7.1 and we hear the changes, and the conversation shifts to regex and a tool Andrew finds useful called “iHateRegex” and “regex for playground” that helps visualize regular expressions. [00:21:19] At RailsConf, Chris gave his first ever workshop with Colin Loretz. The talk focused on Webhooks and their handling in Rails and Chris made a screencast of the workshop and integrated the code into Jumpstart Pro.[00:26:06] Chris and Andrew talk about needing more scholars and promotions for the guide program at RailsConf. Also, they liked how there was a huge emphasis on Junior developers this year.  [00:29:03] Ruby Central is talked about and how more clarity regarding how community contributions are used, and they mention the change in leadership within Ruby Central and the impact it has had on the community. [00:38:24] The guys talk about all the upcoming conferences, including RailsConf and RubyConf. and Andrew shares his experience with social anxiety during the conference.[00:43:25] Chris mentions a hearing a rumor about Rails 7.1 shipping very soon, and Andrew tells us Jason dunked on him at RailsConf in front of everybody. [00:46:49] We end with the guys expressing their gratitude to the organizers and sponsors of RailsConf and encourage juniors to attend conferences to find job opportunities. Panelists:Jason CharnesChris OliverAndrew MasonSponsor:HoneybadgerLinks:Jason Charnes TwitterChris Oliver TwitterAndrew Mason TwitterRuby Conferences 2023Even Amazon can't make sense of serverless or microservices by David Heinemeier HanssonRodaCloudflare WorkersPuppeteerRustThis Week in Railsregex for playgroundHow to Process Inbound Webhooks (RailsConf 2023)-GoRailsRuby CentralRuby Radar TwitterRuby for All Podcast

Cloudflare offers zero-trust security and performance tools for web and SaaS apps.Cloudflare Workers allows devs to deploy serverless code globally to over 285 data centers around the world.Astro is an open-source web framework built for speed. Houston is a bot that lets you chat with their docs.Check out Confbrew, a conference session Q&A bot from Markprompt and Contenda (where Cassidy is CTO). Connect with Brendan on LinkedIn or follow him on Twitter.Connect with Michael on Twitter.Connect with Fred on LinkedIn.While you're at it, follow Ceora and Cassidy on Twitter. Shoutout to Lifeboat badge winner The Nail for saving if->return vs. if->else efficiency from oblivion.

Today we are talking about The D9 Book with Selwyn Polit. For show notes visit: www.talkingDrupal.com/398 Topics What is the Drupal at your fingertips book When did you start the book How long did the first draft take Why is it online only Have you considered printing it How often do you work on it Most interesting tidbit Most obscure What was it like using git for a book Any plans to use Drupal for editing Do you plan to update it for Drupal 10 Any AI tools Chat GPT Github copilot Any plans to expand to other technologies How can you contribute to the book Resources Cloudflare Worker Purge blog: Let Them Eat Cache Book Notion for notes NV Alt for notes Pandoc for converting word docs to markdown automagically drupal.org book Lex Fridman interviewing Sam altman podcast ChatGPT Github copilot Form api reference drupal Reddit PHPStorm VSCode Guests Selwyn Polit - selwynpolit.github.io/d9book @selwynpolit Hosts Nic Laflin - www.nLighteneddevelopment.com @nicxvan John Picozzi - www.epam.com @johnpicozzi Jordan Graham - @jordanlgraham MOTW Correspondent Martin Anderson-Clutz - @mandclu Cloudflare Worker Purge Allows your site to use the Purge module to do tag-based cache invalidation on Cloudflare using Cloudflare Workers.

Jacob Evans is a fullstack engineer working on Cloudflare Workers. Jacob joins us to talk about the Wrangler CLI, cloud functions, and the future of Cloudflare Workers. Links http://cloudflare.com https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers/wrangler https://discord.com/invite/cloudflaredev https://twitter.com/JacobMGEvans https://www.youtube.com/c/JacobEvans887 https://dev.to/jacobmgevans Tell us what you think of PodRocket We want to hear from you! We want to know what you love and hate about the podcast. What do you want to hear more about? Who do you want to see on the show? Our producers want to know, and if you talk with us, we'll send you a $25 gift card! If you're interested, schedule a call with us (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/contact-us) or you can email producer Kate Trahan at kate@logrocket.com (mailto:kate@logrocket.com) Follow us. Get free stickers. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, fill out this form (https://podrocket.logrocket.com/get-podrocket-stickers), and we'll send you free PodRocket stickers! What does LogRocket do? LogRocket combines frontend monitoring, product analytics, and session replay to help software teams deliver the ideal product experience. Try LogRocket for free today. (https://logrocket.com/signup/?pdr) Special Guest: Jacob Evans.

Astro is a tool to build websites, fast! In part two of this episode Simon takes Jon through what Astro is and why it is so awesome! Astro: https://astro.build/ Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Want more NavBar?

In this special episode, Luke Bennett (https://twitter.com/luke_bennett_) joins us to recap all the exciting new things announced at Next Conf 2022, and the release of Next.js 13. Next.js 13: https://nextjs.org/blog/next-13 Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Want more NavBar?

Astro is a tool to build websites, fast! In this episode Simon takes Jon through what Astro is and why it is so awesome! Part two coming next week! Astro: https://astro.build/ Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Want more NavBar?

Supabase is a suite of open source tools that wrap around a PostgreSQL database, giving you the primitives you need to basically build any application. No wonder their tagline is "Build in a weekend, scale to millions". In this episode, Jon takes Simon through what is so awesome about Supabase, and why he should use it! We touch on database hosting, authentication, authorization, file storage, realtime, webhooks and edge functions. Supabase: https://app.supabase.com/ Supabase docs: https://supabase.com/docs Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Want more NavBar?

Getting the right things done is impossible without a system! In this episode, Simon and Jon talk through how they manage their todo lists and get so much done. They break down the process into capture, planning and completion, and share some general productivity tips along the way. Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Want more NavBar?

This week we discuss the rate of Public Cloud adoption, Google's Simplicity Sprint and OKR's. Plus, some thoughts on slippers. Watch the YouTube Live Recording of Episode 379. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEU1uSOpu-c) Runner-up Titles You're not proud of the product You can have both Landing Pages It's just like Serial Don't bring me these unqualified deals It's a Floppy Disk Problem The better the metrics, the less useful they are The sooner you are successful, the longer yoy'are successful Highly Edited Focus on Earnings Rundown AWS CEO says the move to cloud computing is only just getting started (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/28/aws-ceo-says-the-move-to-cloud-computing-is-only-just-getting-started.html) Acquired Episode on AWS (Podcast) (https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/amazon-web-services) Google and Developer Toil Google CEO Pichai tells employees not to 'equate fun with money' in heated all-hands meeting (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/23/google-ceo-pichai-fields-questions-on-cost-cuts-at-all-hands-meeting-.html) Google CEO tells employees productivity and focus must improve, launches 'Simplicity Sprint' to gather employee feedback on efficiency (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/31/google-ceo-to-employees-productivity-and-focus-must-improve.html) Google CEO tells staff not to 'equate fun with money' (https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/23/ceo_google_austerity/) Google CEO Pichai: We need to get 20% more productive (https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/07/google_ceo_sundar_pichai_productivity/) Relevant to your Interests PaaS Is Not Dead (https://www.fermyon.com/blog/paas-is-not-dead) How devops in the cloud breaks down (https://www.infoworld.com/article/3674690/how-devops-in-the-cloud-breaks-down.html) Adobe thinks critics are getting its Figma deal wrong (https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-login-c8c3c313-8144-4de3-9499-a4334a6b8f76.html?chunk=0&utm_term=emshare#story0) The Dead End from RedMonk (https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/09/23/dead-end/) Building for the 99% Developers (https://future.com/software-development-building-for-99-developers/) Meta and Google cut staff via quiet layoffs (https://www.theregister.com/2022/09/21/meta_google_layoffs/) Slack canvas has officially entered the chat! (https://twitter.com/slackhq/status/1572717714522705923?s=46&t=EYrb_JytmT9CVPWd_8-tpw) Linus Torvalds talks Rust on Linux, his work schedule and life with his M2 MacBook Air (https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-talks-rust-on-linux-his-work-schedule-and-life-with-his-m2-macbook-air/) Keynote: Frozen DevOps? 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(https://twitter.com/TwitchiH/status/1574522695399661584) SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Get a SDT Sticker! Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you free laptop stickers! Follow us on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/) and YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured). Use the code SDT to get $20 off Coté's book, (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Digital WTF (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt), so $5 total. Become a sponsor of Software Defined Talk (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads)! Recommendations Brandon: Introducing PowerPoint Live in Microsoft Teams (https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-365-blog/introducing-powerpoint-live-in-microsoft-teams/ba-p/2140980) and/or PowerPoint Reading Mode (https://www.thinkoutsidetheslide.com/use-reading-view-to-show-powerpoint-slides-in-a-window-instead-of-full-screen/) Photo Credits Banner (https://unsplash.com/photos/B2Y0zdSbR8U) CoverArt (https://unsplash.com/photos/ij5_qCBpIVY)

In this special episode, Simon and Jon reflect on their first 10 episodes of The NavBar podcast, and pick out their favourite bits of each episode. Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Want more NavBar?

Are you curious what this Developer Advocate thing is all about? Want to know the difference between Developer Advocates and Developer Relations? This is the episode for you! Simon and Jon break down the pros and cons of working as a developer advocate, tips for getting a job in Dev Rel and the most important things they have learnt about doing it well! Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Smartless podcast: https://www.smartless.com/ Bandrew Says podcast: https://bandrewsays.com/ Want more NavBar?

In part one of this episode, we learnt all about Tailwind CSS, the benefits of a utility-first framework and some of the key features that you get out of the box. This week, we learn about Simon's journey with Tailwind Labs and why he no longer works there. Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Enjoy these podcasts? Simon and Jon create lots of content

In this episode, we learn all about Tailwind CSS, the benefits of a utility-first framework and some of the key features that you get out of the box. This is a two-part episode. Tune in next week to learn about Simon's journey with Tailwind Labs and why he no longer works there. Pro Tailwind: https://www.protailwind.com/ Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959 Building the NavBar website with Remix, Notion and Cloudflare: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFGFKs8nQ3EZI1l9hVri-c4RnX-ZqwWXN Enjoy these podcasts? Simon and Jon create lots of content

In this episode we discuss the Jamstack Innovation Fund, open source sustainability, deciding whether to use Cloudflare Workers or Deno for Netlify's Edge Handlers, and the future of the Jamstack.Matt BiilmannTwitterNetlify Home Page Twitter Links Jamstack Innovation Fund Home Page Netlify Launches $10 Million Jamstack Innovation Fund Jamstack Innovation Fund Launches with the 10 Most Promising Jamstack Startups The Fund ChiselStrike - prototype-to-production data platform Clerk - authentication service purpose-built for Jamstack Clutch - visual editor for Jamstack solutions Convex - global state management platform Deno - modern runtime for JavaScript and TypeScript Everfund - developer-first nonprofit tool to build custom fundraising systems NuxtLabs - making web development intuitive with NuxtJS Snaplet - tool for copying Postgres databases TakeShape - GraphQL API mesh Tigris Data - zero-ops backend for web and mobile apps

In this episode, we go through Simon's origin story and talk about how he got started with programming. We hear about growing up in Switzerland, summers in Greece and why he moved to Australia, as well as the different stepping stones of his career towards becoming a Developer Advocate. Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959?review=67205 Enjoy these podcasts? Simon and Jon create lots of content

Listen to AWS.fm: https://aws.fm/episodes/episode-25-shawn-swyx-wangShawn joins Adam to discuss Amplify and its place in the developer ecosystem, whether we should care about Cloudflare, yet, and how to cope with the anxiety that can come with being extremely online. Also, it sounds like Adam is a tech bro and he's NOT happy about it.TranscriptAdam Elmore: Hey, everyone. Welcome to AWS FM, a podcast with guests from around the AWS community. I'm your host, Adam Elmore. And today, I'm joined by Shawn Swyx Wang. Hi, Shawn.Shawn Wang: Hey, Adam. How's it going?Adam Elmore: It's going well. I've been extremely excited. I've said this on a ton of podcasts, that I'm excited to get on with a guest, but this has been a long time because before I took my break, I was going to get on with you. Took a big, long break, and I've finally got you on. You're somebody, and I'm going to say a lot of things, I'm very dramatic, but you're somebody that I really admire in the online space. You have this ability to think about things, and distill them, and put them out there in a way that I admire greatly. I'm so excited to have you on here. It's going to be hard for me to stay on any one topic because I have just a list of questions I want to ask you, basically.Shawn Wang: [inaudible 00:00:52].Adam Elmore: First, could you tell everyone on this show who you are, just the short version of Shawn?Shawn Wang: Yeah. So I'm Shawn, born and raised in Singapore, went to The States for college and then spent my first career in finance where I did investment banking and hedge funds. Loved the coding part because every junior finance person starts to learn to code, and didn't like the stress of the finance part, so I pivoted to tech where I was a software engineer at Two Sigma and then I was in developer relations at Netlify, AWS, Temporal, and I've just joined Airbyte as head of developer experience.Adam Elmore: Oh, I did not know you weren't still at Temporal. So Airbyte, what is Airbyte?Shawn Wang: Airbyte is a data integration company, it basically has the largest community of open-source connectors for connecting to any SaaS API source into your data warehouse. So for anyone doing data engineering, the first task that you have to do is to get data from all the different silos of data in your business. Let's say you have a Salesforce being the source of truth for customers, Stripe being the source of truth for transactions, get all of them into a single data warehouse for you to do operations on. So the goal is to have the largest community of open-source developers for connecting all the data and liberating your data from all the silos that you have in your business.Adam Elmore: And how long ago did you start? How did I miss this?Shawn Wang: A couple weeks ago. I actually have not announced it on Twitter, which is why.Adam Elmore: Oh, there you go.Shawn Wang: I like to slow play it. So when I joined Temporal, I actually waited for six months to really understand Temporal and to practice my pitch before announcing it on Twitter. And that's how I like to do things because, well, partially I want to be fully up to speed before I represent something publicly.Adam Elmore: Yeah. So I want to talk about that. You get very up to speed in a way that I don't see a lot of people on Twitter. I don't see them understand things in the way that you do. So you obviously write, your blog is a huge source of information for me, and I've enjoyed it quite a lot, but it's not just that you write, it's the way you think about things. Does that come from your finance, your analytical background in finance, or were you like that before, your ability to see the whole forest, take in the way things are trending and the way things are moving, put it all together and distill it into these wonderful articles? Where does that come from?Shawn Wang: Oh, so first of all, thanks for the very kind words. I don't hear back from my readers that often, so it's really nice when I get to talk to someone like this. So yeah, I would say a lot of this stuff is actually from my finance days. This is the kind of analysis that you would have to do when you do an investment report or investment research on any stock or any industry. You want to get a perspective of what's going on, what the trends are, who the major players are, and form an opinion on where things are going. And I think taking that finance mindset into the bets I have, in terms of technologies, whether or not it's for using them personally in my personal stack or for joining them as a startup employee, I think is extremely underrated. And it's something I'm trying to model and hopefully teach people someday.Shawn Wang: Although I'm not sure about the teaching part, because if I say like, "Get rich by doing investment analysis stock on early stage startups," I would feel like a hustler. So maybe not that, but I just do like engaging in that. And probably it's an exercise for me to think things through clearly by writing it down. And I also get a lot of feedback from that, so I actually improve and learn a lot by learning in public. And that's the other thing that I am pretty well known for, so this is the application of the general purpose learning in public principle.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, and I love your learning in public article. I hope more people see how you break down systems and the world around us and distill it. I hope more people do that because I'd love to have more sources of that kind of information. It's really fascinating and that's a lot of what I want to talk about today is your opinions on the future and where certain things are headed. First, I want to talk, you did work at AWS. How long were you at AWS?Shawn Wang: A year. AWS Amplify.Adam Elmore: Yeah. So I'd love to know, I guess what it was like working at AWS, what you took from that, but also more broadly, I want to get into Amplify and where it fits. You sort of live in that intersection. I feel like web, and cloud, and infrastructure, where things are trending, and I want to talk Amplify's place in that, but first, what was your role there like at AWS, at Amplify?Shawn Wang: Yeah, I was a senior dev advocate at Amplify, basically doing demos and talks for Amplify. And the fun thing about working at Amplify is that you are essentially also a developer advocate for all the underlying services. So amplify is essentially a roll up of DynamoDB, API Gateway, AWS AppSync, even file storage like S3. You could do some demos with that. And I did, I made like a DIY Dropbox clone. But it's focus on front-end engineers. And I think that was the first time that AWS had ever made a dedicated arm or products for front-end engineers. And it turned out to be a really good bet because AWS Amplify was one of the fastest growing AWS services, at least during the time that I was there. So I thought it was just really compelling to try it out and obviously everyone has very high regard for AWS. There's a bunch of services that I only experienced on the inside and I only learned about once I got on the inside, and I thought that was really interesting as well.Shawn Wang: A few things I'll point out. I really loved the AWS interview process, actually. I felt like it was very rigorous and I definitely haven't had as rigorous a process anywhere else. And they really got a good look at every single part of me before they made the decision. And fortunately for me, it was a unanimous, good decision, but I felt challenged. I felt like there was a lot of growth that I took away from that process as well. So I highly recommend going through it, even if you don't necessarily take the job.Shawn Wang: And once you're in, I think the other practice I really like was the weekly business reviews. Not everyone gets to be a part of, but I was, and essentially you have a P&L from the central AWS finance team that week to week tells you how well you're doing or not. And the PMs in particular, they'll put up highlights, they bring up topics of discussion, and the general manager would be grilling people on. And I thought that was just a fun way to run a business. It was a little bit stressful, sometimes a little bit dramatic, but hey, it forced you to take on the issues head on instead of ignoring them for three months to a year, which I've also seen happen.Shawn Wang: So I just really appreciated that directness, and everything that you've heard about on the outside about AWS culture applies, like they'll send out the memo and the first 10 minutes of the meeting will be spend in complete silence where you just read the memo.Adam Elmore: Just read the memo. Yeah, that's real. Well, what about the leadership principle? You talked about interviewing there. Did you feel like you started to embody those? Did those really become something you valued or was it sort of like, you're just doing it because that's what Amazon cares about?Shawn Wang: There are a few things here. So I think one, people are drawn to Amazon because of leadership principles, like literally is what the interview is for. So you can't really join without already having them ingrained in you. And then second, yes, it gets brought up a lot when decisions are being made or just behaviors being modeled or discussed, especially in the performance review stuff. So I think that is useful, that is helpful, but at the same time I have problems with some of the LPs myself. "Be right a lot." What the hell is that?Adam Elmore: So what is right?Shawn Wang: Yes, exactly. What is right, what is a lot? So I think that, for example, what is underdiscussed or just not on the table, just because it comes from so much up high and has so much baggage and history with it, is that sometimes you have to try to be wrong, to take more risks. And being right a lot means that you might be more conservative than you otherwise should be. It leads to very incrementalist thinking, which is like, "All right, what is the most obvious next step? What is the low-hanging fruit? What is the short thing?" You just pick that over something that is more risky, but potentially has higher impact.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, that makes sense. I want to, I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about Amplify. Now that you're outside of AWS, you mentioned it was sort of the first example of AWS trying to go to the front-end developer and bundle up more of a developer experience. How do you feel? And you may have information from being there about traction and things like that. How do you feel about Amplify's return on investment and is Amazon doing a good job, I guess, with Amplify in terms of trying to package up their own experience? Do you see that resonating with developers?Shawn Wang: So I think Amazon is doing a good enough job at addressing the needs of AWS customers. And that's something that is Prime first and foremost, like excels at that. Amplify could be doing a lot better at competing with the other standalone front-end developer focused startups that are out there that don't have the AWS infrastructure, which should help, but actually sometimes hurts it a little bit. So my favorite example of this is, so there's another company Begin, begin.com with Brian LeRoux. It's a four-persons company, and they also do very similar things. They deploy on top of Amazon, they are entirely serverless, they have a smaller set of offerings that they have, but their deploy speeds are in order of magnitude, faster than Amplify. They can deploy faster to AWS than Amplify can.Shawn Wang: And that's because Amplify doesn't do some of the trickery that they do, like having a cold pool ready or anything like that. When people are not married to the AWS stack, just because that's the solution, that's the technology provider or cloud that their company has picked. When you have free choice, then you come with no baggage and just being from AWS doesn't give you any home ground advantage anymore. Therefore, you have to really, really, really compete on developer experience. And that's something that Amplify still needed to work on at the time that I left.Adam Elmore: Yeah. I'm glad you brought up Begin too. I'm curious how it fits into the landscape. I've seen you mention Begin within some of your articles, like the cloud distros article I think about, I want to talk about that, but how is Begin doing? I interact with Brian on Twitter, I generally like him a lot, I like what they're building, but it is sort of a thing you have to buy into. It's like a whole different way of building applications. Do you have any sense for how they fit as a player in all of this?Shawn Wang: They're tiny. I mean, they're not a rocket ship by any means, but they absolutely solve the problem for the serverless full stack minimalist aesthetic that they're going for.Adam Elmore: Those are all things I like, so.Shawn Wang: Right down to the API calls, having an inbuilt authentication solution that when you write the serverless function, you just have the user ID and it's all done for you with cookies in the background. That's just beautiful, that's [inaudible 00:12:58] mess with cognito or anything like that. Because it's very straightforward, that is the way that I would want to build serverless applications. If I didn't have some kind of big enterprise thing requirement, which maybe it's a premature optimization to try to glom that on in the first place, which is what you're required to do with AWS Amplify.Shawn Wang: So I don't think I have enough experience to really judge, are they the right technical choice in all aspects? But I think there's just a certain aesthetic that you try to optimize for. And if you have full stack needs, if you like serverless, if you like one of everything, essentially one story solution, one queuing solution, one database solution, then Begin is the right curation for you. And then Amplify is sort of the more fully loaded solution if you want an easy way to access, let's say API Gateway, even like the... Actually just before I left, they actually launched support for serverless containers with a AWS Fargate, which is also super interesting.Adam Elmore: Oh, I didn't even know Amplify supported that.Shawn Wang: Yeah, exactly. They're just different trade offs in the spectrum, like Begin is way more opinionated than Amplify. Amplify is way more opinionated than the full set of AWS services that are possibly out there. I think they serve front-end developers well in all different respects. Yeah. I think Amplify is definitely hitting its goals and probably exceeding its goals for adoption internally. Begin could do a better job at marketing and something that I should probably try to help them on just because I'm a friend of the company and so, I mean, I just really like the philosophy, but at the same time, there are other competitors out there, like CloudFlare Workers is essentially trying to become a Jamstack or a backend-as-a-service platform, because they have Workers KV and Durable Objects. And that's a very compelling solution for a particular type of audience.Shawn Wang: And it's weird because you have to be much more specific now. Like that's the thing, you have to figure out which part of the population you are in, in order to figure out which provider is best for you. There's no such thing as one provider fits all. It's really about like, "Okay, do you like the minimalist approach? Go with Begin. Do you like the edge-first approach? Maybe go with CloudFlare. Do you like the little bit more full stack, scalable, cloudy service? Maybe go with Amplify." There's a lot there. Like, "Do you like to self-host containers? Maybe go with Fly.io or Render.com. There's just a lot of options out there, but all of them happened to be built on top of AWS, which is why we had the cloud distros thesis.Adam Elmore: Yeah. And I've consumed a lot of your content on that front, like hosted back ends. I do wonder where it's all headed. Maybe the answer is that there's just going to be a lot of options, and because there's a lot of different use cases, I guess maybe narrowing it down. Like if I really don't care about enterprise stuff or big teams, if I just care about building stuff with small teams, startups, that's where I live. Do you have any predictions, I guess, for where ideal product building is headed? Is it hosted back ends to go with your hosted front ends on Vercel or whatever else? Is it learning AWS primitives and just good and good at building stuff? How do you see that forecasting into the future?Shawn Wang: What's the alternative to hosted back ends?Adam Elmore: I guess what I do right now is build... Like I kind of use all the Amplify services, I just don't use Amplify. So I build a lot of bespoke APIs with AppSync, and Dynamo, and whatever.Shawn Wang: So because you have that knowledge, that's the best thing for you, because you already have that knowledge. Like it's not a big deal for you to spin up another service, but for others it would be, because they would be new to that and sometimes a more friendly layer that abstracts it away for them would be helpful. So it's really hard to say which is going to win just because they're all going to win in some way, but some will be more winning than others. That's kind of how I view it.Adam Elmore: Yeah. Yeah.Shawn Wang: Because at the end of the day, like cloud is such a big deal, it's such a multi decade thing. It's going to take the rest of our lives to play out. That means that the vast majority of users of cloud haven't adopted it yet, still. This late into the game, they still haven't adopted it yet.Adam Elmore: It's so hard for me to wrap my brain around. It seems like it's been so long. And when you say the rest of our lives, I don't put it in that kind of perspective. I need to calm down trying to figure out what's going to happen in the next three years. Like it doesn't matter.Shawn Wang: Yeah. Yeah. Lambda is like seven years old. This is so early. The way that this looks 40, 50 years from now is going to be so different. AWS has like a million-something customers, imagine it having 10 million. When you have order of magnitude, when we start to think in terms of orders of magnitude, you start to really sweat the small details a lot less because you're like, "Whatever. Everyone's going to win."Adam Elmore: We all win. Yeah, I guess it's true. I don't know if you've talked about this, I'm sure you've thought about it, and maybe you have written about this, but it's the idea of scarcity versus abundance mentality, I guess. It's weird because all at the same time, I agree with the sentiment that if you're on Twitter or you're very online or whatever, you should have this mentality that we can all lift each other up and we can all succeed. But then on the other hand, you've got the climate and how much can the earth sustain in terms of everything can only grow so much. I just had that thought, that sort of raw stream of consciousness. So I don't know if you've got any refined response to that. Is that sort of totally different concepts that I shouldn't conflate?Shawn Wang: What, the limits to growth thesis?Adam Elmore: Oh, yeah. I guess that's what it's called. See, I knew you'd have a name for it or something. Like the idea that we can all succeed, but at the same time, we all need to do a lot less because the planet can't succeed if we all...Shawn Wang: I mean, this is about the offline-online shift. So we can still do a lot less and cloud can still grow because the mix of what we do in-cloud versus off-cloud is still very much imbalanced. So when you do things like pay attention to an Andy Jassy Keynote, and he'll talk about like, "Oh, cloud penetration is whatever, 20%, 30%." That is how low it is and it still takes a long time for people to adopt for whatever reason, institutional or just generational, or maybe our technology's not there yet. There's still a lot that needs to be developed to serve all kinds of markets that it hasn't penetrated. My favorite stat was that online shopping went from 10% to 20% in COVID.Adam Elmore: I can't believe it's only 20%. That's actually...Shawn Wang: Exactly, right?Adam Elmore: That's bonkers.Shawn Wang: So there's some version of the future where that is 70%, which means that you still have a long, long, long, long, long way to grow for every part of e-commerce and the planet can still win by maybe more efficient sorting or less retail outlets. I don't know. I don't know about that. I think I'm much more shakier ground there, but yeah, often the online transition, I think it is a very positive thing for the planet, especially because a lot of the major clouds are committing to net zero carbon footprints. I'm not sure if AWS has actually done that yet, but definitely Microsoft and Google have done it, which means AWS will eventually do it.Adam Elmore: And I know AWS, they've launched sustainability insights and stuff recently, where you can start to see the emissions impact of the services you're spinning up. I know Google's done that for some time, but AWS is now doing that, I think.Shawn Wang: Right. But we're actually measuring it now versus not measuring it before, so whatever. This is peanuts compared to like, "All right, are we moving to electric vehicles or something?" That is way more of an interesting concern than this stuff. Like invent a better battery and that will drastically accelerate the move to solar, and that will be much more meaningful than choosing paper straws. Sweating over the carbon footprint of your EC2 instance is the developer equivalent of choosing a paper straw. Really, look, I appreciate the effort, the spirit's, the heart's in the right place, but really if you want to make an impact, go work in the big things.Adam Elmore: I'm glad you said that because this is not on my notes, this is not something I planned to talk about, but this is the thing that I feel like to make an impact, I've really struggled, I'm 15 years into my career, I've been like a software engineer mostly early in my career, then I did a startup, and then I've mostly just been doing consulting. I feel like there are more possible things I could do with my time than ever. And it's so hard for me to decide what is worth spending time on.Adam Elmore: And I guess, do you have any thoughts on senior engineers, when you get to a point in your career where you have more flexibility and more opportunities, what is the most impactful thing? I've thought about making courses, I've thought about building products and just continuing with consulting. Is there a way to split your time that you're ever going to feel good about?Shawn Wang: Probably not.Adam Elmore: Okay. It's good to know. I can stop trying to find it.Shawn Wang: Yeah. The menu options is so high. I think just figure out what gives you energy and then try to spend more of your time and day on that than stuff that takes away energy from you, so it was just a very hippie thing for me to say.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, that seems much simpler than I'm making it.Shawn Wang: There's a concept here that I do like to share about leverage. There's an inherent tension between productivity and leverage. I think we are trained from basically our days in school, that high productivity is the goal, which is you want to have a packed calendar, you want to be doing eight different things at once. You should feel bad if your efficiency went down 10% compared to last week or whatever, and you're not meeting your OKRs or whatever. And the exact opposite to that is leverage where you want to have one thing, you want to do one thing and just have a lot of impacts come out of that.Shawn Wang: And I think there's a movement, at least in VC circles, but also in sort of tech bro circles of waking up to the idea of slack in your life, and having peace and not having so much going on, and just doing high leverage activities that help you extend your reach without you necessarily putting more hours in or being super productive. Like being unproductive is fantastic. It's actually people who cannot figure out leverage who have to try to be productive. If you can figure out leverage, then productivity doesn't matter at all.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, that's good stuff. I think I intuitively knew that. I just have a really hard time. I feel like I'm much more seeing the tree versus the forest, so I really appreciate talking with people like you that see the broader picture. I think I have a lot of thoughts and then I read an article of yours and it helps me put words to those thoughts that I couldn't really formalize in my head.Shawn Wang: I should really write about this more, but I feel like I haven't got it yet. You see me out there, you see me doing all sorts of random crap. So I haven't internalized it fully. I haven't let go of the sort of productivity mantra. Part of that is me being very risk-averse, part of that is me being doubting myself. Definitely, the stuff that you see from me has extremely high leverage. I think, okay... The other thing is I also have second thoughts or doubts about this whole leverage thing, that's why I have a very divisive tone about VCs and tech bros, because everyone wants to be high leverage, everyone wants to do the 80-20. Nobody wants to ship stuff, they just want to tweet thoughts, and then they think they're done. Right?Adam Elmore: Yeah.Shawn Wang: That's what they think high leverage is. But really the people who get shit done, swipe to find details and take things to the finish line. And guess what? Doing that last 10% is super low leverage. Like, "Oh man, I got to fix this stupid SEO description or the OG image isn't right, let me go fix that." That kind of small little details matter for the quality of the products and for shipping things, but all the high-leverage people feel like they're above that because it's not a good use of time.Adam Elmore: So are they the high-leverage people or you're saying the people that want to be high leverage, is that the VCs and the tech bros?Shawn Wang: Yeah, exactly.Adam Elmore: What is tech bro? I feel like I probably am a tech bro, and I don't want to be a tech bro, but I feel like I'm a white male that has a podcast, so I can't escape it.Shawn Wang: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a tech bro guy. I'm sort of reluctantly in that demographic. Yeah, the tech bro is a bro that's in tech.Adam Elmore: Okay. Yeah. Well.Shawn Wang: That is fully aware. Okay. I do like to have this mis-metric. If you're fully up to speed on the latest news, the gossip, you know all the new launches and new products, you're definitely a tech bro.Adam Elmore: Okay. Okay.Shawn Wang: If nothing surprises you, you're a tech bro. If you know what AUM is, if you know what ARR is, if you know all these acronyms without even blinking, you're a tech bro. Well, the real people who get shit done out there are wonderfully blissfully ignorant. They'll be like, "What is this whole Twitter kerfuffle, what's going on? I don't know. I just completely stayed out of the loop." But you being a tech bro, you would know the blow by blow of like Elon did this, twitter did that, Elon did other thing, twitter did other thing. It doesn't matter, the stuff doesn't matter to some extent and tech bros are so involved in their own filter bubble that they don't see their own forest for the trees, so.Adam Elmore: You said Twitter. I think I've been on Twitter actively for a year or so and I don't know that I'm better for it. I don't know that like... I know that I'm very influenced by that sphere and sort of feeling like, I think that's why it's so surprising to me when I hear about cloud adoption or I hear about online shopping. It just seems like everyone lives in this little community and it's very easy to just not really remember the people that are actually around me in my local community and what life is actually like. Is there a way to balance it? Is there a way to balance being very online, being a member of this Twitter community and still keep a good grasp on the real world?Shawn Wang: I don't think I personally have figured that out a lot, but I think it's basically the developer equivalent of go touch grass, which is go outside.Adam Elmore: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Shawn Wang: Have hobbies, have kids.Adam Elmore: That I was going to say, I've got two boys and they make me be outside a whole lot, so that probably helps, I guess, somewhat.Shawn Wang: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Adam Elmore: I think the biggest thing for me just career and in terms of the always online, the tech broness, I think giving my wife the opportunity to set some boundaries around the time that I am working, I think this stage of my career, I've been able to say I'm going to work less and just seeing her role and what her life looks like and realizing how it shouldn't be this different. Like we shouldn't have such a, I don't know, huge chasm in terms of our daily life. Like I get to go enjoy what I do all day. Yeah, that's helped. We've carved out a lot of time that's like, "This is time for family." I think yeah, but my online, my work life feels very homogenous, I guess. And it could be better.Shawn Wang: For me, it's like, "All right, figure out what is probably going to make your money and focus all your attention on that. Ignore everything else. Try to stick to, okay, what can you reasonably explain to your non-technical relatives? If you can't really justify it to them, then maybe have a second thought about like, 'All right, what am I really doing here?' Am I really making the world a better place by inventing a better form of infrastructure as code? Probably not." Unless you become a billionaire by creating HashiCorp, right?Adam Elmore: Yeah, I guess it happens in that very rare instance. Yeah.Shawn Wang: Right. But it can happen. You just have to be super clear on what you're trying to do here. And just like, yeah, be super intellectually honest about like, "Look, you're you're in this for the money, whatever you work on is probably going to be irrelevant in 10 years anyway. It doesn't matter, but you're at least going to have fun, you're going to build some relationships, you're going to make some people happy, create some jobs, whatever, and then spend the rest of your time with family and friends."Adam Elmore: That was a very succinct way of wrapping up a lot of the things I needed answered. So I don't know if anyone that listens to this podcast cares about any of this. I really appreciate the conversation we just had.Shawn Wang: No, no. I think yeah, this is very real and I really appreciate you bringing it up, because I don't get a lot of chance to talk about this.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, I live in the Ozarks, so tech literacy here is super low. I think that's where getting into the Twitter community, it was like, "I have friends now that I can talk to about technology and things I care about." But yeah, finding that balance. I think it's really very practical of you, very wise of you to point out that ultimately this stuff doesn't necessarily matter in a decade, that whatever I think I'm working on that's so important is probably more about the people, more about what I'm kind of enjoying the process along the way and that it's making a living and that we're moving a little bit forward whatever parts we touch and what other people we can be involved with. That was very nice for me to hear.Shawn Wang: I will point out one thing. So humanity is kind of moving onto this metaverse. If there's anything that's actually real about the metaverse is that you have your community online that is dissociated from your physical community. You're so into AWS, or cloud, or anything like that, and no one else around you physically is, and it's fine. And this is something that actually the crypto bros, they probably got right. So I think Balaji Srinivasan, who is one of the crypto investors at Andreessen Horowitz, he released this book recently about building a digital nation, which is really compelling, which is like, essentially there's the world of physical nations, like the ones that country that've boundaries, but then there's the digital nations, which are formed online, and you're a member of the digital nation of probably tech Twitter, whatever.Adam Elmore: Yeah, yeah.Shawn Wang: Or AWS Twitter. And I kind of liken it to the difference between friends being the family that you choose versus the family that you have is the one that you're born with.Adam Elmore: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Shawn Wang: So where you're physically located is just the nation that you're born with or the nation that you have to live in for your family reasons, but the one that you do online, that's the nation that you choose, so you're member of a different nation online. And that nation is global, it's ephemeral, it's virtual, whatever that is. But it's something that you prefer to spend your time in as compared to your physical nation.Adam Elmore: Yeah. So I feel like since getting really active in Twitter and being involved with the AWS community, even outside of Twitter, it is so global. It's helped me see the perspective of America, where I live, so differently. Just getting all those other points of view and just knowing that when I interact with someone, it's not this base assumption that they understand the world through the lens of America like I do. I very much appreciate that. I feel like I'm, if anything, becoming more and more dissociated with the country I physically live in, because I just don't interact much with people outside of these walls. I don't know if it was COVID and being in all the time. I always have been kind of an at-home person.Shawn Wang: So that is dangerous. Right? That is dangerous.Adam Elmore: Yeah. It feels dangerous. Yeah, tell me why.Shawn Wang: Well, because if you don't care about the physical environment that you're in, then it's going to degrade, it's going to diverge away from your preference.Adam Elmore: Yeah.Shawn Wang: I don't know if that's inherently bad to me. Like there's definitely a physical element to humanity that we should keep around. We are not just brains plugged into the matrix. Essentially this leads to the matrix, that we might also just be plugged into something virtual online and spend zero time on a physical environment. Most people would not like to live that way, and that means we should care about what's going on around us. And we should try to have some physical presence that we're actually proud of and enjoy. And I think that there's a tension there that I think is sort of the modern humanistic existentialism, which is like, "How much of my life should I spend online versus how much should I spend in person?" And the fact that you have to choose is just nuts.Adam Elmore: Yeah. And I think my problem, like if I'm just being honest with myself and just thinking through this, I spend about as much time, I think, in the real world, but it's just with my family, at home, it's with my neighbor, I got a neighbor that I go for walks every week with. It's like my very, very hyper local community. But what's going on in the City of Nixa? It's like 10,000 people where I live. What's the local government doing? I don't know. I have no idea. What's the State of Missouri doing? Probably stuff I don't like.Shawn Wang: Exactly. And look, this has a very real impact on us because these people are making the laws that we have to follow. And we don't have a voice because we choose not to have a voice because we choose to not care. But hey, is it really our fault when the Supreme Court or the Congress makes a law that we don't like? Well, yeah. I mean, what did you expect? You didn't spend any time investing in that part of the world. It's like, "When are we going to have a software engineer in Congress?" That's really the big question.Adam Elmore: Yeah. There's not a lot of tech representation, is there? In government in the United States.Shawn Wang: No, because everyone hates politics, they love to dunk on it, they don't want to do a thing about it, but that's kind of the problem. I don't care which side of the bench you're on, like just the politicalness because you feel like you're not a member of the physical nation, you're a member of the digital nation. That is a problem for the physical nation, because at the end of the day, that's basically a reality.Adam Elmore: Yeah. Oh, I think of that, there was that Netflix documentary. I don't even know if it was just on Netflix, but there was that social. Well, I don't even remember what it was called, it was about social media and had all these people from Facebook and other places, or ex-Facebook, talking about just this impact that the very online nature of our generation, what it's doing to our brains and all that. This all sort of ties in my mind. Like I definitely need to do some more things that are yeah, going to impact my life, my kids' lives, sort of being more involved, I guess, outside of... Like I divide my time into I'm at work and I'm on a computer all day or I'm with my family and we're out in the yard playing. It's those two things. And I make no time for anything else, but that's probably not good. Not a good, long-term solution.Adam Elmore: Okay. Now I'm getting way off the rails. AWS FM, people literally listen to this for some good AWS bits. They've turned out long ago. I do have a couple more questions here, getting back to like I'm a developer, I like building full-stack web applications and I happen to like leveraging AWS. I'm going to ask you a few things. When should I care about CloudFlare? They announce all this cool stuff and it really is genuinely cool sounding, but there's so much of a barrier to adoption, like for me to change my day to day and start using a new thing. When should I care about CloudFlare?Shawn Wang: I have the article on this, about how CloudFlare is playing Go while AWS plays chess, so I highly recommend reading that up. Essentially, CloudFlare is a really good CDN. AWS has its own. I would think you can do up comparisons of CloudFront and CloudFlare all day long, but I would say that CloudFlare probably has much more of a security focus than CloudFront has, and that by default wins you the majority of the business and it happens to be very easily adoptable because you just need to configure some DNS, just is carrying a lot of weight there and it comes to DNS.Adam Elmore: If you're asking someone in the Ozarks around me, then what's DNS, first of all?Shawn Wang: So I think it basically starts from the outside in. You want to think about CloudFlare, you think about where your user's traffic is coming in. Maybe you want to protect those with CloudFlare and then you want to come in a little bit. CloudFlare has this S3 wrapper called R2, that basically reduces a lot of your outgoing bandwidth costs. And that seems like basically a Pareto optimal win. Pareto being you're no worse off in any dimension and you're better off in one dimension, which is cost. And that's just a function of CloudFlare.Shawn Wang: Like how many points of presence does AWS have? I think in the hundreds, maybe 100, 150, something like that. CloudFlare has tens of thousands, right?Adam Elmore: Oh, okay.Shawn Wang: It's just a much better edge network than AWS has. And so they just have a fundamentally different business model. And I think once you understand that from a fundamental physics and points of presence perspective, then you're understanding, "Okay, this is what I'm getting that AWS doesn't do." It's not a straight up one-to-one competitor, it's trying to tackle the cloud problem from a different way.Shawn Wang: So you do the cloud traffic protection, then you do the sort of egress charges, which are sort of the main sticking point of AWS. Then you get into the extra stuff that CloudFlare offers for application builders. And I focus on this because I'm an application builder. CloudFlare's other offerings for security that I have no idea, security and networking that I have no idea about, particularly if you need to wire a building or an office, they have a box that's pretty sweet for everything I heard. CloudFlare One is the name of it if you want to Google it.Adam Elmore: Okay. Yeah, I do.Shawn Wang: But for application developers, CloudFlare Workers, that team is the sort of primary team that's working on that. And that is, there's edge function service that would be a big leap to adopt because they don't run Node.js, they run V8 isolates, which are taken out of the Chrome V8 engine.Adam Elmore: Is it similar to like Lambda@Edge? Like the same kind of...?Shawn Wang: No, it is not.Adam Elmore: Oh, is Lambda@Edge node?Shawn Wang: Yes.Adam Elmore: Oh, it is.Shawn Wang: Yes.Adam Elmore: It is. Now, what is it similar to? It's similar to, I guess like Middleware and Next.js, that's that same kind of a limited runtime environment?Shawn Wang: I think so. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I would say it's more limited in Lambda@Edge and it's got different costs and criteria. Basically, there's just more of the open source ecosystem that it will be incompatible with CloudFlare Workers than it would be with Lambda@Edge. And that's the thing that you need to know because you're going to use...Adam Elmore: CloudFront Functions.Shawn Wang: Ah, okay. Yeah, that's the one I keep forgetting.Adam Elmore: I don't know who's using it, but that's what I was thinking of.Shawn Wang: Right. So I used to use this only for smart redirects, like looking at the headers of a request and saying, "If you're coming in with a header indicating you're from a certain region, certain IPS, certain language, then I'm going to route you to a different location than I would normally." Only for route, but now Edge Functions are becoming so capable that you might be able to do rendering on demands instead of just routing. And that actually is unlocking a few new things because on top of that, CloudFlare also has persistence solutions with Workers KV, which is their eventually consistent store, and Workers, and Durable Objects, which is their strongly consistent store. So either one of those combined with the ability to render, means that you can actually just host a site full stack with Front on the Edge. There's no origin server, there's no region, you just have everything everywhere all at once, which is a favorite phrase that I try to sneak in.Adam Elmore: Yeah. That's super compelling.Shawn Wang: So yeah, your latencies go down from like 300 milliseconds to nine, just because you're just pinging near a cell tower or something.Adam Elmore: Yeah, that's incredible. And they've just announced, I don't remember D1 or whatever. I don't know, I can't keep track of their product names, but they have like a distributed SQL offering as well that's coming or...Shawn Wang: SQLite. Yeah.Adam Elmore: Yeah. SQLite at the edge.Shawn Wang: I mean, everything's just built on top, it's just clearly built on top of the original persistence primitive that they have. And so once they got strongly consistent and eventually consistent, those are the two dimensions that you really care about. You can build any sort of solution on that, so the SQLite offering is just built on top of that.Adam Elmore: Yeah. Okay. So I don't know if I'm going to like jump on this stuff yet, but it does sound like there is a world where I could build side projects just on CloudFlare, like stuff runs all at the edge and I don't have to build up, I guess, is the interop, like if I want to still stand up a GraphQL API in AWS, like AppSync or something, is there interoping between the two services? You said their durable storage sits on top of S3, so it's actually, you're using an S3 bucket, you're just wrapping it with a CloudFlare thing?Shawn Wang: It's a proxy.Adam Elmore: Okay. Are people building hybrid CloudFlare, oh, I know they are, hybrid CloudFlare and AWS back ends today? I think I know of a couple at least. Is that a thing you recommend?Shawn Wang: I would say yeah, there are. I'd say this is definitely on the cutting edge. You do it because you feel like [inaudible 00:42:35].Adam Elmore: It's like Twitter, where you do it and you talk about it on Twitter and then everyone thinks...Shawn Wang: It's theoretically possible, it's just like probably not in any size.Adam Elmore: Doesn't make sense yet. Okay. So I'm going to say, I don't need to care about CloudFlare yet, that's what I'm going to say based on this conversation. I mean, I'm going to keep reading the articles, but.Shawn Wang: The only thing I'll point out is don't stop there because this is what they've achieved in the past three, four years, they clearly have a roadmap, they clearly are going to keep going, and just eating the cloud from outside in, which is the name of the article. What else of the functionality can be replicated in an-edge-first way? CloudFlare is probably going to do that. And so there's a whole roadmap that just consists of looking at the AWS console and just going, "That first, that first, that first comes [inaudible 00:43:17]."Adam Elmore: Yep. Yep. Yep.Shawn Wang: And then there's a question of just what kind of application are you building and do you really need the full set of AWS services, or can you just start from the edge first? That's how disruption happens. Disruption happens by taking a section on the market that nobody cared about and making that your entire thing, and then making it so capable over time that people see no use to use the old thing, but it takes a course of what, 10, 20 years to do that because AWS has just spent the past 20 years doing that in the first place.Adam Elmore: I just don't keep those time frames in mind. Like Twitter has warped my sense of when things are coming. And when you say 10, 20 years, it's like, I don't think about anything that's coming 10, 20 years from now. I think I'm thinking what's coming in the next 18 months.Shawn Wang: Right. But that's a problem for us, because that short-term mentality stops us from betting on big trends early. And I think to build anything of significance, you have to do it for 10 years.Adam Elmore: Yeah. I got to get off Twitter, that's what I'm coming to here.Shawn Wang: I think so. I think I'm going to do it in healthy amounts. So I actually, one of my longstanding wishlist projects is to actually build a Twitter client that has a time limit.Adam Elmore: Oh, nice. Yes.Shawn Wang: [inaudible 00:44:25] Client with a time limit. If you're going to have more time, you're going to have to pay to donate to your favorite charity or something.Adam Elmore: Oh, I love it.Shawn Wang: And that's in my wishlist.Adam Elmore: Yeah. I will use it. You've got your first user if you build it.Shawn Wang: I'll just say the only reason I don't do it is because nobody trusts the Twitter API.Adam Elmore: So one more, should I care about it yet or not? Because I see Brian LeRoux talk about this quite a bit. Deno. Should I care about Deno yet?Shawn Wang: I think so. I think it's there. I think it's there. So what is Deno? Dino is sort of the new runtime that the original creator of Node.js is saying, "All right, I'm going to do this over. Node.js has been around for 10 years. I see all the flaws of it, now I'm going to start over from scratch." I was very skeptical of Deno when it first came out, but it's been two years and it's really shown a lot of progress. And I think the governance is right, the funding model was right, and the adoption is growing. What is really compelling to me about Deno, just not from a technical perspective, from a business perspective, which feeds into a technical, the business side. There are companies so Superbase and Netlify, both launched edge functions powered by Deno, which means that their biggest products shipping capability announcement of the year of 2022 was someone else's product. It was a startup that's way younger than them, but they just have the right abstraction and the right cloud service that is already functional that they're launching. So it's weird.Shawn Wang: Deno's go-to-market strategy is just waiting for other people to wake up and go, "I need this. Deno's the only supplier in the market for this. And yeah, let's just bring it on and ship it as our thing." Where it really is Deno's thing, but they're just letting other people white label them. It's that's fantastic. So I mean, from that perspective alone in the past six months, I've really changed to, from like, "Okay, Node and Deno will coexist for the foreseeable future because there's such a huge install base of Node into every incremental app will probably be built in Deno."Adam Elmore: Well, that's... Yeah. No, that's what I needed to hear. I think I there's a lot of excitement. I see it all, but it's all Twitter, so I needed to hear it face to face that it's worth digging into.Adam Elmore: One last question. We do have a couple more minutes here. Do you have thoughts on the whole macro venture capital situation and how that might impact the next 5, 10 years? And I don't know if we're entering into some tightening cycle that we've never seen anything like the last 10 years, 13, whatever years, of government injecting so much capital into the system. And if that starts going away, do you have opinions or thoughts on all these startups that are making our lives better? Like I think of DevX startups where I don't know how financially sound they are yet, they've been living off the VC. Do you have thoughts on all that?Shawn Wang: Not fully formed ones, but I can give you a quick hit.Adam Elmore: Yeah. Yeah.Shawn Wang: So how bad did it get? It got to the point, so the average price of sales ratio of a publicly traded company would be in the range of 10 to 50. That's a very wide range, meaning your market capitalization, the total value of a company is 50 times your sales. In private markets, the price of sales ratios of funding rounds, series A and B, and all that, got up to 1,000 times.Adam Elmore: Oh my God.Shawn Wang: We had 1,500 at one of the startups that I was at and I heard of one startup that was 2,500.Adam Elmore: Wow.Shawn Wang: So that was the peak in November of last year. Those days are gone, people are now asking for 100X, which is very like 10X fall, like very, very big. That's why almost nobody's raising money. So that VC market is right up, I'll say it has different impact on different stages. And this is all to do with like, "Okay, would you invest in Stripe at 95 billion when Shopify used to be 100 billion and now it's worth 20 billion?" You probably want to buy the more quality asset that's already publicly listed than the very stable asset that is at a high valuation.Shawn Wang: So this is the deal making has just gone off. Like I think at the seed stage, people are completely unaffected. I think people are cognizant of the fact that economic cycles repeat or like, this is not going to... This is a recession. We are probably already in a recession right now, we are in a tightening cycle right now, but this is probably not one of those that's just going to drag out super long. And startup take 10 years to build anyway, so why should your early stage investing be affected at all by what the current level of the S&P is? It shouldn't.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, it's true. I mean, so much of this conversation just echoes your bias towards long term versus short term, and I should have known that coming in. I'm asking all these questions that are very much like, there's a clear answer if you just think outside of the next year.Shawn Wang: Oh, I love training people to do that.Adam Elmore: Yeah. No, it's really nice.Shawn Wang: Take a long-term perspective in the history and then project it out to the future as well, and try to make decisions on that, so.Adam Elmore: Yeah, it's sort of refreshing, especially in this sort of anxiety-ridden digital space. I feel like when you zoom out things feel a lot less pressing or anxiety-laden, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I appreciate that.Shawn Wang: It's weird because I think that's true, but at the same time, you're only here on this earth for so long. When you zoom out, that actually reduces the available number of decisions that you can possibly make, which means that each decision goes from being a two-way door into a one-way door because you want to make more substantial decisions. Therefore, for example, when I changed jobs, it took me like two months of agonizing to finally land on something, because I could have done any number of things and I think you have to really examine your beliefs as to what the long-term trends are going to be and trade that off versus being happy in the short run.Adam Elmore: Yeah. I'm going to be trying to do that. I think I'm in the middle of the agonizing stage right now, trying to figure out what's next, but I'm going to try and think a little more long term.Shawn Wang: The thing I'll point you to, you're talking about courses and stuff like that in leverage, I'll say definitely check out Eric Jorgenson, who is the book writer for Naval Ravikant. He wrote the Almanac of Naval Ravikant, and he's trying to build up a thesis or a body of knowledge around what leverage is and what leverage means. And then the other thing I'll point you to is Nathan Barry, who's the founder of ConvertKit who talked about the letters of wealth creation and how some things are more high leverage than others, so.Adam Elmore: Thank you so much for that. Again, this podcast may just be for me, but that's okay because I got a lot out of it. Thank you so much for taking the time, Shawn.Shawn Wang: [inaudible 00:50:58].Adam Elmore: I didn't know how much I'd get in on my... I think we covered half the things I thought about talking to you about. You're just a wealth of knowledge, you're sort of a wise sage in this community and it's been so great to pick your brain. Thanks for coming on.Shawn Wang: I think we're the same age.Adam Elmore: Oh, yeah. Well yeah, you've been using your time better, I guess. You've been doing more high-leverage things or something.Shawn Wang: Yeah. Thanks for having me around, but we can talk anytime. I really enjoyed this conversation.Adam Elmore: That sounds good. Thanks, Shawn.

In this episode, we go through Jon's origin story and hear about how he got started with programming. We hear about how badly he did in high school and how that drove him away from tertiary education. We hear about his time in the theatre industry, Apple hardware repairs, tech support, teaching at a University, developing curriculum for a web development bootcamp, working as a software engineer and eventually switching careers into his role as a Developer Advocate at Supabase. Caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage (free egghead course): https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959?review=67205 Enjoy these podcasts? Simon and Jon create lots of content

In this episode, Jon and Simon go through a little history lesson of the web, and explain how the classic client server architecture has evolved into this thing we call "The Edge". Additionally, they talk about different caching options and how to bust that cache when the value is no longer accurate. If you want to learn more about caching Supabase data at the Edge with Cloudflare Workers and KV Storage, check out Jon's new free egghead course: https://egghead.io/courses/cache-supabase-data-at-the-edge-with-cloudflare-workers-and-kv-storage-883c7959?review=67205 MDN cache control: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Cache-Control Enjoy these podcasts? Simon and Jon create lots of content

Remix is a full stack web framework that lets you focus on the user interface and work back through web fundamentals to deliver a fast, slick, and resilient user experience that deploys to any Node.js server and even non-Node.js environments at the edge like Cloudflare Workers. In this episode, we interviewed Ryan Florence, co-founder at The post Remix with Ryan Florence appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Remix is a full stack web framework that lets you focus on the user interface and work back through web fundamentals to deliver a fast, slick, and resilient user experience that deploys to any Node.js server and even non-Node.js environments at the edge like Cloudflare Workers. In this episode, we interviewed Ryan Florence, co-founder at The post Remix with Ryan Florence appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Remix is a full stack web framework that lets you focus on the user interface and work back through web fundamentals to deliver a fast, slick, and resilient user experience that deploys to any Node.js server and even non-Node.js environments at the edge like Cloudflare Workers. In this episode, we interviewed Ryan Florence, co-founder at The post Remix with Ryan Florence appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Remix is a full stack web framework that lets you focus on the user interface and work back through web fundamentals to deliver a fast, slick, and resilient user experience that deploys to any Node.js server and even non-Node.js environments at the edge like Cloudflare Workers. In this episode, we interviewed Ryan Florence, co-founder at The post Remix with Ryan Florence appeared first on Software Engineering Daily.

Dans cet épisode nous allons vous expliquer les grands principes du Edge Computing, son fonctionnement et son utilisation. Retrouvez la vidéo de l'enregistrement sur le Youtube de DoubleSlash Le serverless Un service serverless est un service que vous appelez, qui va exécuter le code qui lui est dédié (que vous avez écrit) et renvoyer une réponse. Vous le payez a l'utilisation, souvent en nombre de requête et durée de processing. Cela permet de ne pas posséder de serveur et de la gestion qui va avec. Cependant, lorsque vous créez une fonction serverless, vous sélectionnez une zone géographique. Si vous êtes en France, vous allez privilégier les lieux plus proches de vos internautes. Mais dans le cas, où votre site est international et qu'un visiteur se trouve loin de la France. Le temps de réponse s'allonge et la latence s'installe. Pour une poignée de fonction, cela peut éventuellement passer, mais si toute votre logique, voir votre site repose sur du serverless. Cela devient problématique pour les internautes loin de votre zone de serveur. Évidemment, il est possible de multiplier les serveurs pour servir en fonction du lieu géographique, mais cela ajoute une complexité que vous n'avez pas forcément envie de gérer. Les CDN Un serveur CDN (Content Delivery Network) fait partie d'un réseau réparti à travers la planète. Quand on utilise un CDN, c'est généralement pour des éléments statiques: Images, scripts, fichiers. Le réseau va automatiquement sélectionner le serveur le plus proche du visiteur pour réduire le temps de réponse. Pour une personne en Californie, les éléments statiques proviendront d'un serveur sur la cote Ouest des US. Pour une personne en Allemagne, c'est un serveur allemand qui répondra pour les éléments statiques. Cela marche parfaitement, mais uniquement pour des fichiers. Pas de logique, pas de traitement. Les edges functions Les edges functions, sont des services serverless qui agissent comme des serveurs CDN. Cela permet d'effectuer des traitements au plus proche des internautes. Il y a différent service disponible. Ils utilisent des runtimes différentes. C'est-à-dire que l'on ne retrouve pas forcément du Node.JS pour faire tourner JavaScript. Cloudflare, fait tourner le moteur V8 par exemple. Le même que Chrome ou Node.JS. Netlify a basé ses fonctions edge sur Deno. Cela permet d'avoir des temps de réponse plus rapide, car le cold start est ultra court par rapport à un serveur Node.JS. La suite Au-delà de faire des traitements quand on les appelle. Les edges functions sont capable de faire beaucoup plus. Les Frameworks sont en train d'évoluer et de s'adapter à cette nouvelle technologie. On peut citer, Nuxt 3 qui est capable de tourner sur des Cloudflare Workers. Oui vous avez bien lu, une application complète qui tourne sur un workers. Et donc, une application toujours générée au plus près du visiteur. Fresh, un nouveau Framework, est également pensé pour tourner sur du edge. Bref, le futur est en marche et il semble prometteur. Les liens Netlify Edge function Cloudflare Workers Bonne écoute ! Podcast présenté par : Alexandre Duval @xlanex6 Patrick Faramaz @PatrickFaramaz

About Michael HartA software engineering leader with 20 years of experience growing teams and building distributed systems, from fullstack development to machine learning and big data analytics. He also contributes to open source tools with hundreds of millions of downloads per month, primarily around API integrations, team productivity, and developer optimization for cloud environments. He is currently a Principal Engineer for Cloudflare Workers at Cloudflare. Twitter: @hichaelmart Github: https://github.com/mhart Medium: https://medium.com/@hichaelmart Cloudflare Workers: https://workers.cloudflare.com/

This week Shaw and Chris dig into some deepnerd tech stuff: manipulating HTML. In a perfect world, perhaps we wouldn’t need to, but today, and even moreso in the foreseeable future of CodePen, we need to do a smidge of HTML manipulation on the HTML that you write or that is generated by code you […]

Should Tesla Disable Russian Cars; Ukraine Scams; Universal Audio Blocking Russia; Password Purgatory; Cloudflare Pages; Cloudflare Workers; Sponsored by Varonis https://www.troyhunt.com/weekly-update-286/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode of Syntax, Wes and Scott answer your questions about selling themes, which browser to use, where to keep your 2FA codes, Remxi vs Svelte Kit, and more! Sentry - Sponsor If you want to know what's happening with your code, track errors and monitor performance with Sentry. Sentry's Application Monitoring platform helps developers see performance issues, fix errors faster, and optimize their code health. Cut your time on error resolution from hours to minutes. It works with any language and integrates with dozens of other services. Syntax listeners new to Sentry can get two months for free by visiting Sentry.io and using the coupon code TASTYTREAT during sign up. Sanity - Sponsor Sanity.io is a real-time headless CMS with a fully customizable Content Studio built in React. Get a Sanity powered site up and running in minutes at sanity.io/create. Get an awesome supercharged free developer plan on sanity.io/syntax. Freshbooks - Sponsor Get a 30 day free trial of Freshbooks at freshbooks.com/syntax. Show Notes 00:11 Welcome 02:10 Can you explain import.meta? 07:20 What are your thoughts on publishing and selling HTML & CSS/SASS templates/themes? 12:00 When is it best to use a semantic menu vs a nav? 16:14 Sponsor: Sentry.io 17:36 As a newbie in web dev., which browser do you recommend, Chrome or Firefox Dev. Edition? 20:25 Are TypeScript types are like creating models in Mongoose? 26:16 If you use 2FA, where do you store your recovery codes? 1Password 29:32 Do you know a programming language which similar syntax to js and without the need of a runtime-framework? Syntax 429 - Cloudflare Workers 32:54 I am not feeling the hype for Remix. I would rather put my energy into SvelteKit. Remix Svelte Kit 36:41 Sponsor: Sanity 38:09 Do you guys have any advice on getting unstuck from tutorial hell and at what point do you think someone is ready to apply for junior web dev jobs? 41:36 Do you feel frameworks like Next.js, Remix, etc. abstract too much the complexity that it takes to build full-stack web apps? 44:19 How do you keep up on new technologies? Swyx Scott's Newsletter Intent to Ship 54:04 Sponsor: Freshbooks 55:06 Sick Picks! ××× SIIIIICK ××× PIIIICKS ××× Scott: The River Runner (2021) - IMDb Wes: Mike's Hot Honey Shameless Plugs Scott: LevelUp YouTube channel Wes: Wes Bos on TikTok Tweet us your tasty treats Scott's Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes' Instagram Wes' Twitter Wes' Facebook Scott's Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

In this Hasty Treat, Scott and Wes talk about the pros and cons of JavaScript servers, Serverless, and Cloudflare Workers. Hashnode - Sponsor Everything you need to start blogging as a developer. Own your content, share ideas, and connect with the global dev community! Hashnode is a free developer blogging platform that allows you to publish articles on your own domain and helps you stay connected with a global developer community. Hashnode: Everything you need to start blogging as a developer! Linode - Sponsor Whether you're working on a personal project or managing enterprise infrastructure, you deserve simple, affordable, and accessible cloud computing solutions that allow you to take your project to the next level. Simplify your cloud infrastructure with Linode's Linux virtual machines and develop, deploy, and scale your modern applications faster and easier. Get started on Linode today with a $100 in free credit for listeners of Syntax. You can find all the details at linode.com/syntax. Linode has 11 global data centers and provides 24/7/365 human support with no tiers or hand-offs regardless of your plan size. In addition to shared and dedicated compute instances, you can use your $100 in credit on S3-compatible object storage, Managed Kubernetes, and more. Visit linode.com/syntax and click on the “Create Free Account” button to get started. Show Notes 00:26:13 Welcome 01:12:15 Sponsor: Hashnode 02:27:10 Sponsor: Linode 03:30:09 Topic introduction Netlify Functions Fastify AWS Lambda 09:46:02 Hosted Linux servers 13:41:11 Serverless functions MongoDB SvelteKit 16:34:02 Connecting to a database in serverless 20:14:14 Cloudflare Workers Cloudflare Workers Works with Workers 25:39:09 What do we recommend? Render.com Tweet us your tasty treats Scott's Instagram LevelUpTutorials Instagram Wes' Instagram Wes' Twitter Wes' Facebook Scott's Twitter Make sure to include @SyntaxFM in your tweets

Want to see Elixir/Phoenix out in the wild? In this episode, Allen sits down with Erik Guzmán, a developer whose proficiency in Elixir/Phoenix enabled him to created instant closed captions for both Twitch and Zoom audiences. The two discuss why Elixir is so seamless in its scaling capabilities, how Elixir's ability to reveal errors sooner saved Erik's behind once or twice, and the biggest lessons Erik learned from burn out. “Because of how scalable and efficient things are, every client on Twitch is able to connect directly to my servers and get captions. I've been able to make a richer user experience.” - Erik In This Episode Why Erik moved from Ruby to Elixir and why it's seamless for scaling How Erik's live streaming programming for Twitch and Zoom is changing the game for speech-to-text What Erik learned from building code manually in Elixir/Phoenix, revealing something not-so-great about Ruby on Rails How Elixir reveals errors before they become life-threatening, saving Erik from a world of hurt What getting laid off and burnt out taught Erik about streaming, programming, and sharing Sponsors Top End Devs (https://topenddevs.com/) Picks Allen's: Cloudflare Workers: https://workers.cloudflare.com/ Erik's Ted Lasso show on AppleTV Connect with Erik: Twitch 1 https://twitter.com/talk2megooseman Erik Guzman - DEV Community Special Guest: Erik Guzmán.

Listen to the Changelog: https://changelog.com/podcast/467Essays: https://www.swyx.io/LIP https://www.swyx.io/api-economy https://www.swyx.io/cloudflare-go TranscriptJerod Santo: So swyx, we have been tracking your work for years; well, you've been Learning in Public for years, so I've been (I guess) watching you learn, but we've never had you on the show, so welcome to The Changelog.Shawn Wang: Thank you. Long-time listener, first-time guest, I guess... [laughs]Adam Stacoviak: Yeah.Jerod Santo: Happy to have you here.Adam Stacoviak: Very excited to have you here.Jerod Santo: So tell us a little bit of your story, because I think it informs the rest of our conversation. We're gonna go somewhat deep into some of your ideas, some of the dots you've been connecting as you participate and watch the tech industry... But I think for this conversation it's probably useful to get to know you, and how you got to be where you are. Not the long, detailed story, but maybe the elevator pitch of your recent history. Do you wanna hook us up?Shawn Wang: For sure. For those who want the long history, I did a 2,5-hour podcast with Quincy Larson from FreeCodeCamp, so you can go check that out if you want. The short version is I'm born and raised in Singapore, came to the States for college, and was totally focused on finance. I thought people who were in the finance industry rules the world, they were masters of the universe... And I graduated just in time for the financial crisis, so not a great place to be in. But I worked my way up and did about 6-7 years of investment banking and hedge funds, primarily trading derivatives and tech stocks. And the more I covered tech stocks, the more I realized "Oh, actually a) the technology is taking over the world, b) all the value is being created pre-IPO, so I was investing in public stocks, after they were basically done growing... And you're kind of just like picking over the public remains. That's not exactly true, but...Jerod Santo: Yeah, tell that to Shopify...Shawn Wang: I know, exactly, right?Adam Stacoviak: And GitLab.Shawn Wang: People do IPO and have significant growth after, but that's much more of a risk than at the early stage, where there's a playbook... And I realized that I'd much rather be value-creating than investing. So I changed careers at age 30, I did six months of FreeCodeCamp, and after six months of FreeCodeCamp - you know, I finished it, and that's record time for FreeCodeCamp... But I finished it and felt not ready, so I enrolled myself in a paid code camp, Full Stack Academy in New York, and came out of it working for Two Sigma as a frontend developer. I did that for a year, until Netlify came along and offered me a dev rel job. I took that, and that's kind of been my claim to fame; it's what most people know me for, which is essentially being a speaker and a writer from my Netlify days, from speaking about React quite a bit.[04:13] I joined AWS in early 2020, lasted a year... I actually was very keen on just learning the entire AWS ecosystem. You know, a frontend developer approaching AWS is a very intimidating task... But Temporal came along, and now I'm head of developer experience at Temporal.Adam Stacoviak: It's an interesting path. I love the -- we're obviously huge fans of FreeCodeCamp, and Quincy, and all the work he's done, and the rest of the team has done to make FreeCodeCamp literally free, globally... So I love to see -- it makes you super-happy inside just to know how that work impacts real people.Like, you see things happen out there, and you think "Oh, that's impacting", but then you really meet somebody, and 1) you said you're a long-time listener, and now you're on the show, so it just really -- like, having been in the trenches so long, and just see all this over-time pay off just makes me really believe in that whole "Slow and steady, keep showing up, do what needs done", and eventually things happen. I just love that.Shawn Wang: Yeah. There's an infinite game mentality to this. But I don't want to diminish the concept of free, so... It bothers me a little, because Quincy actually struggles a lot with the financial side of things. He supports millions of people on like a 300k budget. 300k. If every single one of us who graduated at FreeCodeCamp and went on to a successful tech career actually paid for our FreeCodeCamp education - which is what I did; we started the hashtag. It hasn't really taken off, but I started a hashtag called #payitbackwards. Like, just go back, once you're done -- once you can afford it, just go back and pay what you thought it was worth. For me, I've paid 20k, and I hope that everyone who graduates FreeCodeCamp does that, to keep it going.Adam Stacoviak: Well, I mean, why not...?Shawn Wang: I'd also say one thing... The important part of being free is that I can do it on nights and weekends and take my time to decide if I want to change careers. So it's not just a free replacement to bootcamps, it actually is an async, self-guided, dip-your-toe-in-the-water, try-before-you-buy type of thing for people who might potentially change their lives... And that's exactly what happened for me. I kept my day job until the point I was like "Okay, I like enough of this... I'm still not good, but I like enough of this that I think I could do this full-time."Adam Stacoviak: I like the #payitbackwards hashtag. I wish it had more steam, I suppose.Jerod Santo: We should throw some weight behind that, Adam, and see if we can...Adam Stacoviak: Yeah. Well, you know, you think about Lambda School, for example - and I don't wanna throw any shade by any means, because I think what Austin has done with Lambda... He's been on Founders Talk before, and we talked deeply about this idea of making a CS degree cost nothing, and there's been a lot of movement on that front there... But you essentially go through a TL;DR of Lambda as you go through it, and you pay it after you get a job if you hit certain criteria, and you pay it based upon your earnings. So why not, right? Why not have a program like that for FreeCodeCamp, now that you actually have to commit to it... But it's a way. I love that you paid that back and you made that an avenue, an idea of how you could pay back FreeCodeCamp, despite the commitment not being there.Jerod Santo: Right.Shawn Wang: Yeah. And Quincy is very dedicated to it being voluntary. He thinks that people have different financial situations. I don't have kids, so I can afford a bit more. People should have that sort of moral obligation rather than legal obligation.I should mention that Lambda School is currently being accused of some fairly substantial fraud against its students...Jerod Santo: Oh, really?Shawn Wang: Yeah, it actually just came out like two days ago.Adam Stacoviak: I saw that news too, on Monday.Shawn Wang: Yeah. It's not evidenced in the court of law, it's one guy digging up dirt; let's kind of put this in perspective. But still, it's very serious allegations, and it should be investigated. That said, the business of changing careers and the business of teaching people to code, and this innovation of Income Share Agreements (ISA), where it actually makes financial sense for people to grow bootcamps and fund bootcamps - this is something I strongly support... Whether or not it should be a venture-funded thing, where you try to go for 10x growth every year - probably not... [laughs]Adam Stacoviak: Yeah...Jerod Santo: So after FreeCodeCamp you didn't feel quite ready, so you did do a bootcamp... Did you feel ready after that?Shawn Wang: [08:03] Yeah. [laughs] I did a reflection, by the way, of my first year of learning to code, so people can look it up... It's called "No zero days. My path to learning to code", and I think I posted it on Hacker News. And doing everything twice actually helped me a lot. Because before I came into my paid bootcamp, I had already spun up some React apps. I had already started to mess with WebPack, and I knew enough that I wasn't understanding it very much, I was just following the instructions. But the second time you do things, you have to space, to really try to experiment, to actually read the docs, which most people don't do, and actually try to understand what the hell it is you're doing. And I felt that I had an edge over the other people in my bootcamp because I did six months of FreeCodeCamp prior.Jerod Santo: So this other thing that you do, which not everybody does, is this Learning in Public idea... And you have this post, Learn in Public. You call it "The fastest way to learn", or the fastest way to build your expertise - networking, and second brain. I'm not sure what the second brain is, so help us out with that one... But also, why is learning in public faster than learning in private.Shawn Wang: Yeah. This is a reflection that came from me understanding the difference, qualitatively, between why I'm doing so well in my tech career versus my finance career. In finance, everything is private, meaning the investment memos that I wrote, the trade ideas that I had - they're just from a company; they're intellectual property of my company. In fact, I no longer own them. Some of my best work has been in that phase, and it's locked up in an email inbox somewhere, and I'll never see it again. And that's because tech is a fundamentally open and positive-sum industry, where if you share things, you don't lose anything; you actually gain from sharing things... Whereas in finance it's a zero-sum battle against who's got the secret first and who can act on it first.And I think when you're in tech, you should exploit that. I think that we have been trained our entire lives to be zero-sum, from just like the earliest days of our school, where we learn, we keep it to ourselves to try to pass the test, try to get the best scores, try to get the best jobs, the best colleges, and all that, because everything's positional. For you to win, others have to lose. But I don't see tech in that way, primarily because tech is still growing so fast. There's multiple ways for people to succeed, and that's just the fundamental baseline. You layer on top of that a bunch of other psychological phenomenon.I've been really fascinated by this, by what it is so effective. First of all, you have your skin in the game, meaning that a lot of times when your name is on the blog posts out there, or your name is on the talk that you gave, your face is there, and people can criticize you, you're just incentivized to learn better, instead of just "Oh, I'll read this and then I'll try to remember it." No, it doesn't really stick as much. So having skin in the game really helps.When you get something wrong in public, there are two effects that happen. First is people will climb over broken glass to correct you, because that's how the internet does. There's a famous XKCD comic where like "I can't go to bed yet." "Why?" "Someone's wrong on the internet. I have to correct them."Jerod Santo: Right.Shawn Wang: So people are incentivized to fix your flaws for you - and that's fantastic - if you have a small ego.Jerod Santo: I was gonna say, that requires thick skin.Shawn Wang: Yeah, exactly. So honestly -- and that's a barrier for a lot of people. They cannot get over this embarrassment. What I always say is you can learn so much on the internet, for the low, low price of your ego. If we can get over that, we can learn so much, just because you don't care. And the way to get over it is to just realize that the version that you put out today is the version you should be embarrassed about a year from now, because that shows that you've grown. So you divorce your identity from your work, and just let people criticize your work; it's fine, because it was done by you, before you knew what you know today. And that's totally fine.And then the second part, which is that once you've gotten something wrong in public, it's just so embarrassing that you just remember it in a much clearer fashion. [laughter] This built a feedback loop, because once you started doing this, and you show people that you respond to feedback, then it builds a feedback and an expectation that you'll do the next thing, and people respond to the next thing... It becomes a conversation, rather than a solitary endeavor of you just learning the source material.So I really like that viral feedback loop. It helps you grow your reputation... Because this is not just useful for people who are behind you; a lot of people, when they blog, when they write, when they speak, they're talking down. They're like "I have five years experience in this. Here's the intro to whatever. Here's the approach to beginners." They don't actually get much out of that.[12:17] That's really good, by the way, for beginners; that's really important, that experts in the field share their knowledge. They don't see this blogging or this speaking as a way to level up in terms of speaking to their experts in their fields. But I think it's actually very helpful. You can be helpful to people behind you, you can be helpful to people around you, but you can actually be helpful to people ahead of you, because you're helping to basically broadcast or personalize their message. They can check their messaging and see - if you're getting this wrong, then they're getting something wrong on their end, docs-wise, or messaging-wise. That becomes a really good conversation. I've interacted with mentors that way. That's much more how I prefer to interact with my mentors than DM-ing and saying "Hey, can you be my mentor?", which is an unspecified, unpaid, indefinitely long job, which nobody really enjoys. I like project-based mentorship, I like occasional mentorship... I really think that that develops when you learn in public.Adam Stacoviak: I've heard it say that "Today is the tomorrow you hope for."Shawn Wang: Wow.Adam Stacoviak: Because today is always tomorrow at some point, right? Like, today is the day, and today you were hoping for tomorrow to be better...Jerod Santo: I think by definition today is not tomorrow...Adam Stacoviak: No, today is the tomorrow that you hoped for... Meaning like "Seize your moment. It's here."Jerod Santo: Carpe diem. Gotcha.Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, kind of a thing like that.Shawn Wang: I feel a little shady -- obviously, I agree, but also, I feel a little shady whenever I venture into this territory, because then it becomes very motivational speaking-wise, and I'm not about that. [laughs]Adam Stacoviak: Kind of... But I think you're in the right place; keep showing up where you need to be - that kind of thing. But I think your perspective though comes from the fact that you had this finance career, and a different perspective on the way work and the way a career progressed. And so you have a dichotomy essentially between two different worlds; one where it's private, and one where it's open. That to me is pretty interesting, how you were able to tie those two together and see things differently. Because I think too often sometimes in tech, especially staying around late at night, correcting someone on the internet, you're just so deeply in one industry, and you have almost a bubble around you. You have one lens for which you see the world. And you've been able to have multi-faceted perspectives of this world, as well as others, because of a more informed career path.Jerod Santo: Yeah. When you talk about finance as a zero-sum game, I feel like there's actually been moves now to actually open up about finance as well; I'm not sure if either of you have tracked the celebrity rise of Cathie Wood and Ark Invest, and a lot of the moves that she's doing in public. They're an investment fund, and they will actually publish their moves at the end of every day. Like, "We sold these stocks. We bought these stocks." And people laughed at that for a while, but because she's been successful with early on Bitcoin, early with Tesla, she's very much into growth stocks - because of that, people started to follow her very closely and just emulate. And when she makes moves now, it makes news on a lot of the C-SPANs and the... Is C-SPAN the Congress one? What's the one that's the finance one...?Shawn Wang: CNBC?Jerod Santo: CNBC, not C-SPAN. And so she's very much learning in public. She's making her moves public, she's learning as she goes, and to a certain degree it's paid off, it's paid dividends in her career. Now, I'm not sure if everyone's doing that... When you look at crypto investors, like - okay, pseudonymous, but a lot of that stuff, public ledgers. So there's moves that are being made in public there as well. So I wonder if eventually some of that mentality will change. What do you think about that?Shawn Wang: [15:45] It's definitely changed for -- there's always been celebrity investors, and people have been copying the Buffett portfolio for 30 years. So none of that is new. What is new is that Cathie Wood is running an ETF, and just by way of regulation and by way of innovation, she does have to report those changes. [laughs] So mutual funds, hedge fund holdings - these have all been public, and people do follow them. And you're always incentivized to talk your book after you've established your position in your book...Jerod Santo: Right, but you establish it first.Shawn Wang: ...so none of that has changed. But yeah, Cathie has been leading an open approach...Jerod Santo: Is it the rate of disclosure perhaps that's new? Because it seems like it's more real-time than it has historically...Shawn Wang: Yeah. I mean, she's running an ETF, which is new, actually... Because most people just run mutual funds or hedge funds, and those are much more private. The other two I'll probably shout out is Patrick O'Shaughnessy who's been running I guess a fund of funds, and he's been fairly open. He actually adopted the "learn in public" slogan in the finance field, independently of me. And then finally, the other one is probably Ted Seides, who is on the institutional investor side of things. So he invests for universities, and teachers pensions, and stuff like that. So all these people - yeah, they've been leading that... I'm not sure if it's spreading, or they've just been extraordinarily successful in celebrity because of it.Adam Stacoviak: This idea of "in public" is happening. You see people too, like -- CopyAI is building in public... This idea of learning in public, or building in public, or exiting in public... Whatever the public might be, it's happening more and more... And I think it's definitely similar to the way that open source moves around. It's open, so it's visible to everyone. There's no barrier to see what's happening, whether it's positive or negative, with whatever it is in public. They're leveraging this to their advantage, because it's basically free marketing. And that's how the world has evolved to use social media. Social media has inherently been public, because it's social...Jerod Santo: Sure.Adam Stacoviak: Aside from Facebook being gated, with friends and stuff like that... Twitter is probably the most primary example of that, maybe even TikTok, where if I'm a creator on TikTok, I almost can't control who sees my contact. I assume it's for the world, and theoretically, controlled by the algorithm... Because if I live in Europe, I may not see content in the U.S, and the algorithm says no, or whatever. But it's almost like everybody is just in public in those spaces, and they're leveraging it to their advantage... Which is an interesting place to be at in the world. There was never an opportunity before; you couldn't do it at that level, at that scale, ten years ago, twenty years ago. It's a now moment.Jerod Santo: Yeah. Swyx, can you give us an example of something learned in public? Do you basically mean like blog when you've learned something, or ask questions? What does learning in public actually mean when it comes to -- say, take a technology. Maybe you don't understand Redux. I could raise my hand on that one... [laughter] How could I learn that in public?Shawn Wang: There are a bunch of things that you can try. You can record a livestream of you going through the docs, and that's useful to maintainers, understanding "Hey, is this useful or not?" And that's immediately useful. It's so tangible.I actually have a list -- I have a talk about this on the blog post as well... Just a suggestion of things you can do. It's not just blogging. You can speak, you can draw comics, cheatsheets are really helpful... I think Amy Hoy did a Ruby on Rails cheatsheet that basically everyone has printed out and stapled to their wall, or something... And if you can do a nice cheatsheet, I think that's also a way for you to internalize those things that you're trying to learn anyway, and it just so happens to benefit others.So I really like this idea that whatever content you're doing, it's learning exhaust, it's a side effect of you learning, and you just happen to put it out there; you understand what formats work for you, because you have abnormal talents. Especially if you can draw, do that. People love developers who can draw. And then you just put it out there, and you win anyway just by doing it. You don't need an audience. You get one if you do this long enough, but you don't need an audience right away. And you win whether or not people participate with you. It's a single-player game that can become a multiplayer game.Specifically for Redux - you know, go through source code, or go through the docs, build a sample app, do like a simple little YouTube video on it... Depending on the maturity, you may want to try to speak at a meetup, or whatever... You don't have to make everything a big deal. I'm trying to remove the perception from people that everything has to be this big step, like it has to be top of Hacker News, or something. No. It could just be helpful for one person. I often write blog posts with one persona in mind. I mean, I don't name that person, but if you focus on that target persona, actually often it does better than when you try to make some giant thesis that shakes the world...Adam Stacoviak: [20:22] Yeah. Too often we don't move because we feel like the weight of the move is just too much. It's like "How many people have to read this for me to make this a success for me?" You mentioned it's a learning exhaust... And this exhaust that you've put out before - has it been helpful really to you? Is that exhaust process very helpful to you? Is that ingrained in the learnings that you've just gone through, just sort of like synthesize "Okay, I learned. Here's actually what I learned"?Shawn Wang: Yeah. This is actually an opportunity to tie into that second brain concept which maybe you wanted to talk a little bit about. Everything that you write down becomes your second brain. At this point I can search Google for anything I've ever written on something, and actually come up on my own notes, on whatever I had. So I'm not relying on my memory for that. Your human brain, your first brain is not very good at storage, and it's not very good at search; so why not outsource that to computers? And the only way to do that is you have to serialize your knowledge down into some machine-readable format that's part of research. I do it in a number of places; right now I do it across GitHub, and my blog, and a little bit of my Discord. Any place where you find you can store knowledge, I think that's a really good second brain.And for Jerod, I'll give you an example I actually was gonna bring up, which is when I was trying to learn React and TypeScript - like, this goes all the way back to my first developer job. I was asked to do TypeScript, even though I'd never done it before. And honestly, my team lead was just like "You know TypeScript, right? You're a professional React dev, you have to know TypeScript." And I actually said no, and I started learning on day one.And what I did was I created the React to TypeScript cheatsheet, which literally was just copy-pasteable code of everything that I found useful and I wish I knew when I was starting out. And I've just built that over time. That thing's been live for three years now, it's got like 20,000 stars. I've taught thousands of developers from Uber, from Microsoft, React and TypeScript. And they've taught me - every time they send in a question or a PR... I think it's a very fundamental way of interacting, which is learning in public, but specifically this one - it's open source knowledge; bringing up our open source not just to code, but to everything else. I think that's a fundamental feedback loop that I've really enjoyed as well.Break: [22:31]Jerod Santo: One of the things I appreciate about you, swyx, is how you are always thinking, always writing down your thoughts... You've been watching and participating in this industry now for a while, and you've had some pretty (I think) insightful writings lately. The first one I wanna talk about is this API Economy post. The Light and Dark Side of the API Economy. You say "Developers severely underestimate the importance of this to their own career." So I figure if that's the case, we should hear more about it, right?Shawn Wang: [laughs] Happy to talk about it. So what is the API economy? The API economy is developers reshaping the world in their image. Very bold statement, but kind of true, in the sense that there is now an API for everything - API for cards, API for bank accounts, API for text, API for authentication, API for shipping physical goods... There's all sorts of APIs. And what that enables you to do as a developer is you can call an API - as long as you know REST or GraphQL these days, you know how to invoke these things and make these things function according to the rest of your program. You can just fit those things right in. They're a very powerful thing to have, because now the cost of developing one of these services just goes down dramatically, because there's another company doing that as a service for you.I wrote about it mainly because at Netlify we were pitching serverless, we were pitching static hosting, and we were pitching APIs. That's the A in JAMstack. But when I google "API economy", all the search results were terrible. Just horrible SEO, bland, meaningless stuff that did not speak to developers; it was just speaking to people who like tech buzzwords. So I wrote my own version. The people who coined it at Andreessen Horowitz, by the way, still to this day do not have a blog post on the API economy. They just have one podcast recording which nobody's gonna listen. So I just wrote my version.Jerod Santo: You're saying people don't listen to podcasts, or what?Shawn Wang: [laughs] When people are looking up a term, they are like "What is this thing?", and you give them a podcast, they're not gonna sit down and listen for 46 minutes on a topic. They just want like "Give me it, in one paragraph. Give me a visual, and I'm gonna move on with my day." So yeah, whenever I see an opportunity like that, I try to write it up. And that's the light side; a lot of people talk about the light side. But because it's a personal blog, I'm empowered to also talk about the dark side, which is that as much as it enables developers, it actually is a little bit diminishing the status of human expertise and labor and talent. So we can talk a little bit about that, but I'm just gonna give you time to respond.Jerod Santo: [28:05] Hm. I'm over here thinking now that you're not at Netlify, I'm curious - this is tangential, but what's your take on JAMstack now? I know you were a professional salesman there for a while, but... It seems like JAMstack - we've covered it for years, it's a marketing term, it's something we've already been doing, but maybe taking it to the next level... There's lots of players now - Netlify, Vercel etc. And yet, I don't see much out there in the real world beyond the people doing demos, "Here's how to build a blog, here's how to do this, here's my personal website", and I'm just curious... I'm not like down on JAMstack, but I just don't see it manifesting in the ways that people have been claiming it's going to... And maybe we're just waiting for the technology to catch up. I'd just love to hear what you think about it now.Shawn Wang: Yeah. I think that you're maybe not involved in that world, so you don't see this, but real companies are moving on to JAMstack. The phrasing that I like is that -- JAMstack has gone mainstream, and it's not even worth talking about these days, because it's just granted that that's an option for you... So PayPal.me is on the JAMstack, there's large e-commerce sites... Basically, anything that decouples your backend from your frontend, and your frontend is statically-hosted - that is JAMstack.I actually am blanking on the name, but if you go check out the recent JAMstack Conf, they have a bunch of examples of people who've not only moved to JAMstack, but obviously moved to Netlify, where they're trying to promote themselves.Jerod Santo: Sure, yeah.Shawn Wang: So yes, it's true that I'm no longer a professional spokesperson, but it's not true that JAMstack is no longer being applied in the enterprise, because it is getting adoption; it's moved on that boring phase where people don't talk about it.One thing I'll say - a thesis that I've been pursuing is that JAMstack is in its endgame. And what do I mean by that? There's a spectrum between the previous paradigm that JAMstack was pushing back on, which is the all-WordPress/server-render-everything paradigm, and then JAMstack is prerender-everything. And now people are filling in--Jerod Santo: In the middle.Shawn Wang: ...I'm gonna put my hands in the Zoom screen right now. People are filling that gap between fully dynamic and fully static. So that's what you see with Next.js and Gatsby moving into serverless rendering, partial rendering or incremental rendering... And there's a full spectrum of ways in which you can optimize your rendering for the trade-offs of updating your content, versus getting your data/content delivered as quickly as possible. There's always some amount of precompilation that you need to do, and there's always some amount of dynamicism that you have to do, that cannot be precompiled. So now there is a full spectrum between those.Why I say it's the end game is because that's it, there's nothing else to explore. It's full-dynamic, full-static, choose some mix in the middle, that's it. It's boring.Jerod Santo: Hasn't that always been the case though? Hasn't there always been sites that server-side render some stuff, and pre-render other things? You know, we cache, we pre-render, some people crawl their own websites once, and... I don't know it seems like maybe just a lot of excitement around a lot of things that we've been doing for many years.Shawn Wang: [laughs] So first of all, those are being remade in the React ecosystem of things, which a lot of us lost when a lot of the web development industry moved to React... So that's an important thing to get back.I mean, I agree, that's something that we've always had, pre-rendering, and services like that, caching at the CDN layer - we've always had that. There's some differences... So if you understand Netlify and why they're trying to push distributed persistent rendering (DVR), it's because caching is a hard problem, and people always end up turning off the cache. Because the first time you run into a bug, you're gonna turn off the cache. And the cache is gonna stay off.So the way that Netlify is trying to fix it is that we put the cache in Git, essentially. Git is the source of truth, instead of some other source of truth distributed somewhere between your CDN and your database and somewhere else. No, everything's in Git. I'm not sure if I've represented that well, to be honest... [laughter]Adam Stacoviak: Well, good thing you don't work for Netlify anymore. We're not holding you to the Netlify standard.Shawn Wang: [31:58] Exactly. All I can say is that to me now it's a good thing in the sense that it's boring. It's the good kind of boring, in the sense of like "Okay, there's a spectrum. There's all these techniques. Yes, there were previous techniques, but now these are the new hotness. Pick your choice." I can get into a technical discussion of why this technique, the first one, the others... But also, is it that interesting unless you're evaluating for your site? Probably not...Jerod Santo: Well, it does play into this API economy though, right? Because when you're full JAMstack, then the A is your most important thing, and when the A is owned by a bunch of companies that aren't yours - like, there's a little bit of dark side there, right? All of a sudden, now I'm not necessarily the proprietor of my own website, to a certain degree, because I have these contracts. I may or may not get cut off... There's a lot of concerns when everybody else is a dependency to your website.Shawn Wang: Yeah. So I don't consider that a dark side at all.Jerod Santo: No, I'm saying to me that seems like a dark side.Shawn Wang: Yeah, sure. This is the risk of lock-in; you're handing over your faith and your uptime to other people. So you have to trade that off, versus "Can you build this yourself? And are you capable of doing something like this, and are you capable of maintaining it?" And that is a very high upfront cost, versus the variable cost of just hiring one of these people to do it for you as a service.So what I would say is that the API economy is a net addition, because you as a startup - the startup cost is very little, and if you get big enough where it makes sense for you to build in-house - go ahead. But this is a net new addition for you to turn fixed costs into variable costs, and start with a small amount of investment. But I can hire -- like, Algolia was started by three Ph.D's in search, and I can hire them for cents to do search on my crummy little website. I will absolutely do that every single day, until I get to a big enough point where I cannot depend on them anymore, and I have to build my own search. Fine, I'll do that. But until then, I can just rely on them. That's a new addition there.Jerod Santo: One hundred percent. So what then do you think is the darker side? You mentioned it, but put a finer point on it.Shawn Wang: Yeah. The dark side is that there are people -- like, when I call an Uber ride, Uber is an API for teleportation, essentially. I'm here, I wanna go there. I press a button, the car shows up. I get in the car, get off, I'm there. What this papers over is that the API is calling real actual humans, who are being commoditized. I don't care who drives the car, I really don't. I mean, they may have some ratings, but I kind of don't care.Jerod Santo: That was the case with taxis though, wasn't it?Shawn Wang: That was the case with taxis, for sure. But there's a lot of people living below the API, who are economically constrained, and people who live above the API, developers, who have all the upside, essentially... Because the developers are unique, the labor is commoditized. My DoorDash pickers, my Instacart deliverers - all these are subsumed under the API economy. They're commodities forever, they know it, and there's no way out for them, unless they become developers themselves. There's a class system developing below and above the API. And the moment we can replace these people under the API with robots, you better believe we'll do that, because robots are way cheaper, and they complain less, they can work 24 hours, all this stuff.Jerod Santo: Yeah.Shawn Wang: So that's the dark side, which is, yeah, as a developer now - fantastic. I can control most parts of the economy with just a single API call. As a startup founder, I can develop an API for literally anything, and people will buy it. The downside is human talent is being commoditized, and I don't know how to feel about that. I think people are not talking enough about it, and I just wanna flag it to people.Jerod Santo: Yeah.Adam Stacoviak: So dark side could mean a couple things. One, it could mean literally bad; dark as synonymous with bad. Or dark as in shady. And we're not sure, it's obscured in terms of what's happening. And so let's use an Instacarter or a Dasher - to use their terminology. I happen to be a DoorDash user, so I know they're called Dashers; that's the only reason I know that. It's not a downplay, it's just simply what the terminology is...[35:59] You could say it's below the API, but I wonder, if you've spoken with these people, or people that live in what you call below the API, because I would imagine they're not doing that because they're being forced. Like, it's an opportunity for them.Shawn Wang: Oh, yeah.Adam Stacoviak: And I remember when I was younger and I had less opportunity because I had less "above the API" (so to speak) talent... And I do agree there's a class here, but I wonder if it's truly bad; that dark is truly bad, or if it's just simply obscure in terms of how it's gonna play out.Shawn Wang: This is about upside. They will never get to that six figures income with this thing.Adam Stacoviak: Not that job.Jerod Santo: No.Shawn Wang: It's really about the class system, which is the dark side. You don't want to have society splinter into like a serving class and whatever the non-serving class is. It's also about the upside - like, I don't see a way for these people to break out unless, they really just take a hard stop and just go to a completely different career track.Jerod Santo: Right.Adam Stacoviak: Here's where I have a hard time with that... I'm not pushing back on that you're wrong, I'm just wondering more deeply...Shawn Wang: Sure.Adam Stacoviak: I imagine at one point in my life I was a DoorDasher.Shawn Wang: Yeah.Adam Stacoviak: I washed dishes, I did definitely unique jobs at a young age before I had skill. And so the path is skill, and as long as we have a path to skill, which you've show-cased through FreeCodeCamp in your path, then I think that dark side is just simply shady, and not bad.Shawn Wang: Okay.Adam Stacoviak: And I'm just trying to understand it, because I was truly a DoorDasher before DoorDash was available. I washed dishes, delivered papers, I had servant-level things; I was literally a server at a restaurant before... And I loved doing that kind of work, but my talents have allowed me to go above that specific job, and maybe even the pay that came with that job. I've served in the military before, got paid terrible dollars, but I loved the United States military; it's great. And I love everybody who's served in our military. But the point is, I think the path is skill, and as long as we have a pathway to skill, and jobs that can house that skill and leverage that skill to create new value for the world, I just wonder if it's just necessary for society to have, I suppose, above and below API things.Jerod Santo: Until we have all the robots. Then there is nobody underneath. At that point it's all robots under the API.Shawn Wang: Yes, and that is true in a lot of senses, actually. Like, farming is mostly robots these days. You do have individual farmers, but they're much less than they used to be. I don't know what to say about that, shady or dark... I think it's just -- there's no career track. You have to go break out of that system yourself. Thank God there's a way to do it. But back in the day, you used to be able to go from the mailroom to the boardroom.Adam Stacoviak: I see.Shawn Wang: I see these stories of people who used to be janitors at schools become the principal. Companies used to invest in all their people and bring them up. But now we're just hiring your time, and then if you wanna break out of that system - good luck, you're on your own. I think that that lack of upward mobility is a problem, and you're not gonna see it today. It's a slow-moving train wreck. But it's gonna happen where you have society split in two, and bad things happen because of it.Adam Stacoviak: I mean, I could agree with that part there, that there definitely is no lateral movement from Dasher to CEO of DoorDash.Shawn Wang: It's just not gonna happen.Adam Stacoviak: Or VP of engineering at DoorDash. I think because there is no path, the path would be step outside of that system, because that system doesn't have a path. I could agree with that, for sure.Jerod Santo: Yeah. I mean, the good news is that we are creating -- there are paths. This is not like a path from X to Y through that system, but there are other alternate paths that we are creating and investing in, and as well as the API gets pushed further and further down in terms of reachability - we now have more and more access to those things. It's easier now, today, than it ever has been, because of what we were talking about, to be the startup founder, right? To be the person who starts at CEO because the company has one person in it, and they're the CEO. And to succeed in that case, and become the next DoorDash.Adam Stacoviak: True.Jerod Santo: So there are opportunities to get out, it's just not a clear line... And yeah, it takes perhaps some mentorship, perhaps ingenuity... A lot of the things that it takes to succeed anyway, so...Shawn Wang: [40:05] I'll give a closing note for developers who are listening, because you're already a developer... So the analogy is if you're above the API, you tell machines what to do; if you're below the API, machines tell you what to do. So here's the developer analogy, which is there's another division in society, which is the kanban board. If you're below the kanban board, the kanban board tells you what to do. If you're above it, you tell developers what to do. [laughs]Jerod Santo: There you go.Shawn Wang: So how do you break out of that class division? I'll leave it out to you, but just keep in mind, there's always layers.Jerod Santo: I love that.Adam Stacoviak: I love the discussion around it, but I'm also thankful you approached the subject by a way of a blog post, because I do believe that this is interesting to talk about, and people should talk about it, for sure. Because it provides introspection into, I guess, potentially something you don't really think about, like "Do I live below or above the APi?" I've never thought about that in that way until this very moment, talking to you, so... I love that.Break: [40:58]Jerod Santo: So another awesome post you have written lately is about Cloudflare and AWS. Go - not the language, the game Go... I know very little about the language, and I know even less about the game... And Chess... How Cloudflare is approaching things, versus how AWS and Google and others are... Given us the TL;DR of that post, and then we'll discuss.Shawn Wang: Okay. The TL;DR of that post is that Cloudflare is trying to become the fourth major cloud after AWS, Azure and GCP. The way they're doing it is fundamentally different than the other three, and the more I've studied them - I basically observed Cloudflare for the entire time since I joined Netlify. Netlify kind of is a competitor to Cloudflare, and it's always this uncomfortable debate between "Should you put Cloudflare in front of Netlify? Netlify itself is a CDN. Why would you put a CDN in front of another CDN?" Oh, because Netlify charges for bandwidth, and Cloudflare does not. [laughter]Jerod Santo: It's as simple as that.Shawn Wang: And then there's DDOS protection, all that stuff; very complicated. Go look up the Netlify blog post on why you should not put Cloudflare in front of Netlify, and decide for yourself. But Netlify now taking on AWS S3 - S3 is like a crown jewel of AWS. This is the eighth wonder of the world. It provides eleven nines of durability. Nothing less than the sun exploding will take this thing down... [laughs]Jerod Santo: Right? You know what's funny - I don't even consider us at Changelog AWS customers; I don't even think of us that way. But of course, we use S3, because that's what you do. So yeah, we're very much AWS customers, even though I barely even think about it, because S3 is just like this thing that of course you're gonna use.Shawn Wang: There's been a recent history of people putting out S3-compatible APIs, just because it's so dominant that it becomes the de-facto standard. Backblaze did it recently. But Cloudflare putting out R2 and explicitly saying "You can slurp up the S3 data, and by the way, here's all the cost-benefit of AWS egress charges that's what Matthew Prince wrote about in his blog post is all totally true, attacks a part of AWS that it cannot compromise on and just comes at the top three clouds from a different way, that they cannot respond to.[44:17] So I always like these analogies of how people play destruction games. I'm a student of destruction, and I study Ben Thompson and Clay Christensen, and that entire world, very quickly... So I thought this was a different model of destruction, where you're essentially embracing rather than trying to compete head-on. And wrapping around it is essentially what Go does versus chess, and I like -- you know, there's all these comparisons, like "You're playing 2D chess, I'm playing 3D chess. You're playing chess, I'm playing Go." So Cloudflare is playing Go by surrounding the S3 service and saying "Here is a strict superset. You're already a consumer of S3. Put us on, and magically your costs get lower. Nothing else about it changes, including your data still lives in AWS if you ever decide to leave us." Or if you want to move to Cloudflare, you've just gotta do the final step of cutting off S3.That is a genius, brilliant move that I think people don't really appreciate, and it's something that I study a lot, because I work at companies that try to become the next big cloud. I worked at Netlify, and a lot of people are asking, "Can you build a large public company on top of another cloud? Our second-layer cloud is viable." I think Vercel and Netlify are proving that partially it is. They're both highly valued. I almost leaked some info there... When does this go out? [laughs]Jerod Santo: Next week, probably...Shawn Wang: Okay, alright... So they're both highly valued, and - like, can they be hundred-billion-dollar companies? I don't know. We don't know the end state of cloud, but I think people are trying to compete there, and every startup -- I nearly joined Render.com as well. Every startup that's trying to pitch a second-layer cloud thesis is always working under the shadows of AWS. And this is the first real thesis that I've seen, that like "Oh, okay, you not only can credibly wrap around and benefit, you can actually come into your own as a fourth major cloud." So I'm gonna stop there... There's so many thoughts I have about Cloudflare.Jerod Santo: Yeah. So do you see that R2 then -- I think it's a brilliant move, as you described it... As I read your post, I started to appreciate, I think, the move, more than I did when I first read about it and I was like "Oh, they're just undercutting." But it seems they are doing more than just that. But do you think that this R2 then is a bit of a loss leader in order to just take a whole bunch of AWS customers, or do you think there's actually an economic -- is it economically viable as a standalone service, or do you think Cloudflare is using it to gain customers? What are your thoughts in their strategy of Why?Shawn Wang: This is the top question on Twitter and on Hacker News when they launch. They are going to make money on this thing, and the reason is because of all the peering agreements that they've established over the past five years. As part of the normal business strategy of Cloudflare, they have peering agreements with all of the ISPs; bandwidth is free for them. So... For them in a lot of cases. Again, I have to caveat all this constantly, because I should note to people that I am not a cloud or networking expert. I'm just learning in public, just like the rest of you, and here's what I have so far. So please, correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll learn from it.But yeah, I mean - straight on, it's not a loss leader. They plan to make money on it. And the reason they can is because they have worked so hard to make their cost structure completely different in AWS, and they've been a friend to all the other ISPs, rather than AWS consuming everything in its own world. Now you're starting to see the benefits of that strategy play out. And by the way, this is just storage, but also they have data store, also they have service compute, all following the same model.Jerod Santo: So what do you think is a more likely path over the next two years? Cloudflare --Adam Stacoviak: Prediction time!Jerod Santo: ...Cloudflare steals just massive swathes of AWS customers, or AWS slashes prices to compete?Shawn Wang: So I try not to do the prediction business, because I got out of that from the finance days... All I'm doing is nowcasting. I observe what I'm seeing now and I try to put out the clearest vision of it, so the others can follow.I think that it makes sense for them to be replicating the primitives of every other cloud service. So in 2017 they did service compute with Cloudflare Workers. In 2018 they did eventually consistent data store. In 2019 - website hosting; that's the Netlify competitor. In 2020 they did strongly-consistent data store, with Durable Objects. In 2021 object storage. What's next on that list? Go on to your AWS console and go shopping. And instead of seven different ways to do async messaging in AWS, probably they're gonna do one way in Cloudflare. [laughs]Adam Stacoviak: [48:34] A unified API, or something like that...Jerod Santo: Yeah, they'll just look at AWS' offerings, the ones they like the best, and do it that way, right?Shawn Wang: Yeah, just pick it up.Adam Stacoviak: Maybe the way to get a prediction out of you, swyx, might be rather than directly predict, maybe describe how you win Go.Shawn Wang: How you win Go...Adam Stacoviak: Yeah, what's the point of Go? How do you win Go? Because that might predict the hidden prediction, so to speak.Shawn Wang: Okay. For listeners who don't know Go, let me draw out the analogy as well. So most people are familiar with chess; individual chess pieces have different values and different points, and they must all support each other. Whenever you play chess, you need the Knight to support the pawns, something like that... Whereas in Go, you place your pieces everywhere, and they're all indistinguishable from each other. And it's more about claiming territory; at the end of the day, that's how you win Go, you claim the most territory compared to the others... And it's never a winner-take-all situation. Most likely, it's like a 60/40. You won 60% of the territory and your competitor has 40% of the territory. That's more likely a mapping of how cloud is gonna play out than chess, where winner-takes-all when you take the King. There's no King in the cloud, but--Jerod Santo: Are you sure...?Shawn Wang: ...there's a lot likely of territory claiming, and Cloudflare is really positioned very well for that. It's just part of the final realization that I had at the end of the blog post. And partially, how you take individual pieces of territory is that you surround all the pieces of the enemy and you place the final piece and you fill up all the gaps, such that the enemy is completely cut off from everything else and is surrounded. And that's what R2 does to S3 - it surrounds S3, and it's up to you to place that final piece. They call it, Atari, by the way, which is the name of the old gaming company, Atari. They have placed AWS S3 in Atari, and it's up to the customers to say "I'm gonna place that final piece. I'm gonna pay the cost of transferring all my data out of S3 and cut S3 off", and they cut off all the remaining liberties. So how do you win in Go? You claim the most amount of territory, and you surround the pieces of the enemy.Adam Stacoviak: Which, if you thought maybe that was oxygen, the territory, you might suck the oxygen away from them, so they can't live anymore, so to speak... And maybe you don't take it by killing it. Maybe you sort of suffocate it almost, if their space becomes small enough; if you take enough territory and it begins to shrink enough, it's kind of like checkmate, but not.Shawn Wang: Yeah. There's also a concept of sente in Go, which is that you make a move that the opponent has to respond to, which is kind of like a check, or checkmate -- actually, not; just the check, in chess. And right now, AWS doesn't feel the need to respond. Cloudflare is not big enough. Like, these are names to us, but let's just put things in numbers. Cloudflare's market cap is 36 billion, AWS' market cap is 1.6 trillion; this is Amazon's total market cap. Obviously, AWS is a subset of that.Jerod Santo: Sure.Shawn Wang: So your competitor is 40 times larger than you. Obviously, Cloudflare is incentivized to make a lot of noise and make themselves seem bigger than it is. But until AWS has to respond, this is not real.Adam Stacoviak: Nice.Jerod Santo: So as a developer, as a customer of potentially one or both of these... Let's say you have a whole bunch of stuff on S3 - I'm asking you personally now, swyx - and R2 becomes available... Is that a no-brainer for you, or is there any reason not to use that?Shawn Wang: You're just adding another vendor in your dependency tree. I think for anyone running silicon bandwidth, it is a no-brainer.Jerod Santo: Yeah. So over the course of n months, where n equals when they launch plus a certain number - I mean, I think this is gonna end up eventually on Amazon's radar, to where it's gonna start affecting some bottom lines that important people are gonna notice. So I just wonder - I mean, how much territory can Cloudflare grab before there's a counter-move? It's gonna be interesting to watch.Shawn Wang: [52:12] So Ben from Vantage actually did a cost analysis... Vantage is a startup that is made up former AWS Console people; they're trying to build a better developer experience on top of AWS. They actually did a cost analysis on the R2 move, and they said that there's probably a hundred billion dollars' worth of revenue at stake for Amazon. So if they start to have a significant dent in that, let's say like 40%, AWS will probably have to respond. But until then, there's nothing to worry about. That's literally how it is in Amazon; you have to see the numbers hit before you respond.Jerod Santo: Yeah. It hasn't even been a blip on the radar at this point, the key metrics to the people who are important enough to care are watching. You said you started watching all of these CDNs. Of course, you worked at Netlify... You take an interest in backends. There's something you mentioned in the break about frontenders versus backend, and where you've kind of been directing your career, why you're watching Cloudflare so closely, what you're up to now with your work... Do you wanna go there?Shawn Wang: Let's go there. So if you track my career, I started out as a frontend developer. I was developing design systems, I was working with Storybook, and React, and all that... Then at Netlify I was doing more serverless and CLI stuff. At AWS more storage and database and AppSync and GraphQL stuff... And now at Temporal I'm working on a workflow engine, pure backend. I just went to KubeCon two weeks ago...Jerod Santo: Nice!Shawn Wang: What is a frontend developer doing at KubeCon...?Adam Stacoviak: New territory.Shawn Wang: It's a frontend developer who realizes that there's a career ceiling for frontend developers. And it's not a polite conversation, and obviously there are exceptions to frontend developers who are VPs of engineering, frontend developers who are startup founders... And actually, by the way, there's a lot of VC funding coming from frontend developers, which is fantastic for all my friends. They're all getting funded, left, right and center. I feel left out. But there is a Career ceiling, in a sense that survey a hundred VPs of engineering, how many of them have backend backgrounds, and how many of them have frontend backgrounds? And given that choice, what's more likely for you and your long-term career progression? Do you want to specialize in frontend or do you want to specialize in backend? Different people have different interests, and I think that you can be successful in whatever discipline you pick. But for me, I've been moving towards the backend for that reason.Adam Stacoviak: Describe ceiling. What exactly do you mean when you say "ceiling"?Shawn Wang: Career ceiling. What's your terminal title.Jerod Santo: Like your highest role, or whatever. Highest salary, highest role, highest title...Adam Stacoviak: Gotcha.Shawn Wang: Like, straight up, how many VPs of engineering and CTOs have backend backgrounds versus frontend.Jerod Santo: Yeah. I mean, just anecdotally, I would agree with you that it's probably 8 or 9 out of 10 CTOs have -- is that what you said, 8 or 9?Shawn Wang: Yeah, yeah. So there's obviously an economic reasoning for this; it's because there's a bias in the industry that frontend is not real development, and backend is. And that has to be combated. But also, there's an economic reasoning, and I always go back to the economics part, because of my finance background... Which is that your value to the company, your value to the industry really depends on how many machines run through you. You as an individual unit of labor, how much money do you control, and how much machine process, or compute, or storage, or whatever runs through you. And just straight-up frontend doesn't take as much. [laughs] Yes, frontend is hard, yes, design is hard, yes, UX is crucially important, especially for consumer-facing products... But at the end of the day, your compute is being run on other people's machines, and people don't value that as much as the compute that I pay for, that I need to scale, and therefore I need an experienced leader to run that, and therefore that is the leader of my entire eng.Jerod Santo: I wonder if that changes at all for very product-focused orgs, where I think a lot of frontenders, the moves are into product design and architecture, and away from - not software architecture, but product design. And it seems like maybe if you compare - not VP of engineering, but VP of product, you'd see a lot of former frontenders.Shawn Wang: [56:03] Yeah.Jerod Santo: Maybe that's their path. Do you think that's --Shawn Wang: Totally. But you're no longer a frontend dev. You suddenly have to do mocks...Jerod Santo: Yeah, but when you're VP of engineering you're not a backend dev either.Shawn Wang: Yeah.Jerod Santo: So you're kind of both ascending to that degreeShawn Wang: Backends devs will never report to you, let's put it that way.Jerod Santo: Okay. Fair.Shawn Wang: [laughter] But somehow, frontend devs have to report to backend devs, for some reason; just because they're superior, or something. I don't know, it's just like an unspoken thing... It's a very impolite conversation, but hey, it's a reality, man.Jerod Santo: So do you see this personally, or do you see this by looking around?Shawn Wang: Yeah.Jerod Santo: Yeah. You felt like you had reached a ceiling.Shawn Wang: Well, again, this is very impolite; there's a ton of ways to succeed, and there are definitely exceptions. Emily Nakashima at Honeycomb - former frontend person, now VP of engineering. I don't know, I could have done that. I have interest in backend and I'm pursuing that. So I will say that - this is a soft ceiling, it's a permeable ceiling. It's not a hard ceiling.Jerod Santo: Sure.Shawn Wang: But there's a ceiling though, because you can see the numbers.Adam Stacoviak: What is it in particular the VP of engineering does that would make a frontender less likely to have that role? What specifically? I mean, engineering is one of the things, right? Commanding the software... Which is not necessarily frontend.Jerod Santo: Well, frontend is also an engineering discipline.Adam Stacoviak: I guess it kind of depends on the company, too. Honeycomb is probably a different example.Shawn Wang: I haven't been a VP of engineering, so I only have some theories. I suggest you just ask the next VP of engineering that you talk to, or CTO.Adam Stacoviak: Yeah.Jerod Santo: Yeah. That'd be a good one to start asking people.Adam Stacoviak: What do you do here? What is it you do here?Shawn Wang: What is it you do here?Jerod Santo: Exactly.Shawn Wang: [laughs]Adam Stacoviak: Well, I just wondered if there was a specific skillset that happens at that VP of engineering level that leads more towards a backender being more likely than a frontender to get hired into the role.Shawn Wang: I think there's some traditional baggage. Power structures persist for very long times... And for a long time UX and frontend was just not valued. And we're like maybe five years into the shift into that. It's just gonna take a long time.Jerod Santo: I agree with that. So tell us what you're up to now. You said you're doing workflows... I saw a quick lightning talk; you were talking about "React for the backend." So you're very much taking your frontend stuff into the backend here, with React for the backend. Tell us about that.Shawn Wang: Let's go for it. So at Netlify and at AWS I was essentially a developer advocate for serverless. So this is very cool - it does pay-as-you-go compute, and you can do a lot of cool stuff with it. But something that was always at the back of my mind bothering me, that serverless does not do well, is long-running jobs. It just does not do well. You have to chain together a bunch of stuff, and it's very brittle; you cannot test it... It's way more expensive than you would do in a normal environment.Jerod Santo: Yeah.Shawn Wang: And it made me realize that in this move to take apart everything and make everything as a service, we have gained scalability, but we've lost basically everything else. And what I was trying to do was "How do we reconstruct the experience of the monolith? What are the jobs to be done?" When you break it down, what does a computer do for you, and what is not adequately addressed by the ecosystem?I went through the exercise... I wrote a blog post called "Reconstructing the monolith, and I actually listed it out." So what are the jobs of cloud for a computer? You want static file serving, you want functions, you want gateway, you want socket management, job runners, queue, scheduler, cold storage, hot storage. There's meta jobs like error logging, usage logging, dashboarding, and then edge computing is like a unique to cloud thing. But everything else, you can kind of break it up and you can locate it on one machine, or you can locate it on multiple machines, some of them owned by you, some of them not owned by you.The thing that serverless -- that had a whole in the ecosystem was job running. Not good. Basically, as an AWS developer right now, the answer is you set a CloudWatch schedule function, and you pull an endpoint, and that should read some states from a database, and check through where you are, and compute until the 15-minute timeout for Lambda, and then save it back in, and then wait for the next pull, and start back up again. Super-brittle, and just a terrible experience; you would never want to go this way.[01:00:08.13] The AWS current response to that is AWS Step Functions, which is a JSON graph of what happens after the other, and this central orchestrator controls all of that. I think we could do better, and that's eventually what got me to temporal. So essentially, this blog post that I wrote - people found me through that, and hired both our head of product and myself from this single blog post. So it's probably the highest ROI blog post I've ever written.Jerod Santo: Wow. That's spectacular.Shawn Wang: It's just the VC that invested in Temporal. So what Temporal does is it helps you write long-running workflows in a doable fashion; every single state transition is persisted to a database, in idiomatic code. So idiomatic Java, idiomatic Go, idiomatic JavaScript, and PHP. This is different from other systems, because other systems force you to learn their language. For Amazon, you have to learn Amazon States Language. For Google Workflows - Google Workflows has a very long, very verbose JSON and YAML language as well.And these are all weird perversions of -- like, you wanna start simple; JSON is very simple, for doing boxes and arrows, and stuff like that... But you start ending up having to handwrite the AST of a general-purpose programming language, because you want variables, you want loops, you want branching, you want all that god stuff. And the best way to model asynchronous and dynamic business logic is with a general-purpose programming language, and that's our strong opinion there.So Temporal was created at Uber; it runs over 300 use cases at Uber, including driver onboarding, and marketing, and some of the trips stuff as well. It was open source, and adopted at Airbnb, and Stripe, and Netflix, and we have all those case studies on -- DoorDash as well, by the way, runs on the Uber version of Temporal.Jerod Santo: There you go, Adam.Shawn Wang: And yeah, they spun out to a company two years ago, and we're now trying to make it as an independent cloud company. And again, the

Kent Ickler // Background Over four years ago now, I wrote a blog post on fixing missing Content-Security-Policy by updating configuration on webservers: https://www.blackhillsinfosec.com/fix-missing-content-security-policy-website/. Content-Security-Policies instruct a user's web browser how it should behave on certain security considerations. Oh, how times have changed. Here at Black Hills Information Security (BHIS), we've actually migrated webservers, hosting […] The post Fixing Content-Security-Policies with Cloudflare Workers appeared first on Black Hills Information Security.

Yes, here I am again after some months of downtime. And yes, I probably get all the months wrong in the episode. A quick update on my relationship with Micro.blog, what I'm working on... and the lack of updates - thank you screenshot crash on Android. Diving into hybrid app development... liking it. I realised that recording at home is somewhat difficult. So I'm back in the car with my trusty phone and terrible acoustics. Our daughter started school, so it's all new to us. Spending loads of money. My reasoning for not recording, getting into a weird spot. Embracing the colder climate and days. I tease my winter plan for Sublime Ads and all the things I am working on. Recorded November, 16th 2021. Links Micro.blog Dev DairyMicro.blogGluonBasecampHEYSublime AdsCloudflare WorkersCloudflare for SaaS

Yes, here I am again after some months of downtime. And yes, I probably get all the months wrong in the episode. A quick update on my relationship with Micro.blog, what I'm working on... and the lack of updates - thank you screenshot crash on Android. Diving into hybrid app development... liking it. I realised that recording at home is somewhat difficult. So I'm back in the car with my trusty phone and terrible acoustics. Our daughter started school, so it's all new to us. Spending loads of money. My reasoning for not recording, getting into a weird spot. Embracing the colder climate and days. I tease my winter plan for Sublime Ads and all the things I am working on. Recorded November, 16th 2021. Links Micro.blog Dev DairyMicro.blogGluonBasecampHEYSublime AdsCloudflare WorkersCloudflare for SaaS

About MatthewMatthew Prince is co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare. Cloudflare's mission is to help build a better Internet. Today the company runs one of the world's largest networks, which spans more than 200 cities in over 100 countries. Matthew is a World Economic Forum Technology Pioneer, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, winner of the 2011 Tech Fellow Award, and serves on the Board of Advisors for the Center for Information Technology and Privacy Law. Matthew holds an MBA from Harvard Business School where he was a George F. Baker Scholar and awarded the Dubilier Prize for Entrepreneurship. He is a member of the Illinois Bar, and earned his J.D. from the University of Chicago and B.A. in English Literature and Computer Science from Trinity College. He's also the co-creator of Project Honey Pot, the largest community of webmasters tracking online fraud and abuse.Links: Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com Blog post: https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress/ Bandwidth Alliance: https://www.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-alliance/ Announcement of R2: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-r2-object-storage/ Blog.cloudflare.com: https://blog.cloudflare.com Duckbillgroup.com: https://duckbillgroup.com TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: Writing ad copy to fit into a 30 second slot is hard, but if anyone can do it the folks at Quali can. Just like their Torque infrastructure automation platform can deliver complex application environments anytime, anywhere, in just seconds instead of hours, days or weeks. Visit Qtorque.io today and learn how you can spin up application environments in about the same amount of time it took you to listen to this ad.Corey: This episode is sponsored in part by Honeycomb. When production is running slow, it's hard to know where problems originate: is it your application code, users, or the underlying systems? I've got five bucks on DNS, personally. Why scroll through endless dashboards, while dealing with alert floods, going from tool to tool to tool that you employ, guessing at which puzzle pieces matter? Context switching and tool sprawl are slowly killing both your team and your business. You should care more about one of those than the other, which one is up to you. Drop the separate pillars and enter a world of getting one unified understanding of the one thing driving your business: production. With Honeycomb, you guess less and know more. Try it for free at Honeycomb.io/screaminginthecloud. Observability, it's more than just hipster monitoring.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud, I'm Corey Quinn. Today, my guest is someone I feel a certain kinship with, if for no other reason than I spend the bulk of my time antagonizing AWS incredibly publicly. And my guest periodically descends into the gutter with me to do the same sort of things. The difference is that I'm a loudmouth with a Twitter account and Matthew Prince is the co-founder and CEO of Cloudflare, which is, of course, publicly traded. Matthew, thank you for deigning to speak with me today. I really appreciate it.Matthew: Corey, it's my pleasure, and appreciate you having me on.Corey: So, I'm mostly being facetious here, but not entirely, in that you have very publicly and repeatedly called out some of the same things I love calling out, which is AWS's frankly egregious egress pricing. In fact, that was a title of a blog post that you folks put out, and it was so well done I'm ashamed I didn't come up with it myself years ago. But it's something that is resonating with a large number of people in very specific circumstances as far as what their company does. Talk to me a little bit about that. Cloudflare is a CDN company and increasingly looking like something beyond that. Where do you stand on this? What got you on this path?Matthew: I was actually searching through really old emails to find something the other day, and I found a message from all the way back in 2009, so actually even before Michelle and I had come up with a name for Cloudflare. We were really just trying to understand the pricing on public clouds and breaking it all down. How much does the compute cost? How much does storage cost? How much does bandwidth cost?And we kept running the numbers over and over and over again, and the storage and compute costs actually seemed relatively reasonable and you could understand it, but the economics behind the bandwidth just made no sense. It was clear that as bandwidth usage grew and you got scale that your costs eventually effectively went to zero. And I think it was that insight that led to us starting Cloudflare. And the self-service plans at Cloudflare have always been unlimited bandwidth, and from the beginning, we didn't charge for bandwidth. People told us at the time we were crazy to not do that, but I think that that realization, that over time and at scale, bandwidth costs do go to zero is really core to who Cloudflare is.Cloudflare launched a little over 11 years ago now, and as we've watched the various public clouds and AWS in particular just really over that same 11 years not only not follow the natural price of bandwidth down, but really hold their costs steady. At some point, we've got a lot of mutual customers and it's a complaint that we hear from our mutual customers all the time, and we decided that we should do something about it. And so that started four years ago, when we launched the Bandwidth Alliance, and worked with almost all the major public clouds with the exception of Amazon, to say that if someone is sending traffic from a public cloud network to Cloudflare's network, we're not going to charge them for the bandwidth. It's going across a piece of fiber optic cable that yeah, there's some cost to put it in place and maybe there's some maintenance costs associated with it, but there's not—Corey: And the equipment at the end costs money, but it's not cloud cost; it just cost on a per second, every hour of your lifetime basis. It's a capital expense that is amortized across a number of years et cetera, et cetera.Matthew: And it's a fixed cost. It's not a variable cost. You put that fiber optic cable and you use a port on a router on each side. There's cost associated with that, but it's relatively de minimis. And so we said, “If it's not costing us anything and it's not costing a cloud provider anything, why are we charging customers for that?”And I think it's an argument that resonated with almost every other provider that was out there. And so Google discounts traffic when it's sent to us, Microsoft discounts traffic when it's sent to us, and we just announced that Oracle has joined this discounting their traffic, which was already some of the most cost-effective bandwidth from any cloud provider.Corey: Oh, yeah. Oracle's fantastic. As you were announced, I believe today, the fact that they're joining the Bandwidth Alliance is both fascinating and also, on some level, “Okay. It doesn't matter as much because their retail starting cost is 10% of Amazon's.” You have to start pushing an awful lot of traffic relative to what you would do AWS before it starts to show up. It's great to see.Matthew: And the fact that they're taking that down to effectively zero if you're using us is even better, right? And I think it again just illustrates how Amazon's really alone in this at being so egregious in how they do that. And it's, when we've done the math to calculate what their markups are, it's almost 80 times what reasonable assumptions on what their wholesale costs are. And so we really do believe in fighting for our customers and being customer-centric, and this seems like a place where—again, Amazon provides an incredible service and so many things, but the data transfer costs are just completely outrageous. And I'm glad that you're calling them out on it, and I'm glad we're calling them out on it and I think increasingly they look isolated and very anti-customer.Corey: What's interesting to me is that ingress to AWS at all the large public tier-one cloud providers is free. Which has led, I think, to the assumption—real or not—that bandwidth doesn't actually cost anything, whereas going outbound, all I can assume is that one day, some Amazon VP was watching a rerun of Meet the Parents and they got to the line where Ben Stiller says, “Oh, you can milk anything with nipples,” and said, “Holy crap. Our customers all have nipples; we can milk them with egress charges.” And here we are. As much as I think the cloud empowers some amazing stuff, the egress charges are very much an Achilles heel to a point where it starts to look like people won't even consider public cloud for certain workloads based upon that.People talk about how Netflix is a great representation of the ideal AWS customers. Yeah, but they don't stream a single byte to customers from AWS. They have their own CDN called Open Connect that they put all around the internet, specifically for that use case because it would bankrupt them otherwise.Matthew: If you're a small customer, bandwidth does cost something because you have to pay someone to do the work of interconnecting with all of the various networks that are out there. If you start to be, though, a large customer—like a Cloudflare, like an AWS, like an Azure—that is sending serious traffic to the internet, then it starts to actually be in the interest of ISPs to directly interconnect with you, and the costs of your bandwidth over time will approach zero. And that's the just economic reality of how bandwidth pricing works. I think that the confusion, to some extent, comes from all of us having bought our own home internet connection. And I think that the fact that you get more bandwidth up in most internet connections, and you get down, people think that there's some physics, which is associated with that.And there are; that turns out just to be the legacy of the cable system that was really designed to send pictures down to your—Corey: It wasn't really a listening post. Yeah.Matthew: Right. And so they have dedicated less capacity for up and again, in-home network connections, that makes a ton of sense, but that's not how internet connections work globally. In fact, you pay—you get a symmetric connection. And so if they can demonstrate that it's free to take the traffic in, we can't figure out any reason that's not simply about customer lock-in; why you would charge to take data out, but you wouldn't charge to put it in. Because actually cost more from writing data to a disk, it costs more than reading it from a disk.And so by all reasonable accounts, if they were actually charging based on what their costs were, they would charge for ingress but they want to charge for egress. But the approach that we've taken is to say, “For standard bandwidth, we just aren't going to charge for it.” And we do charge for if you use our premium routing services, which is something called Argo, but even then it's relatively cheap compared with what is just standard kind of internet connectivity that's out there. And as we see more of the clouds like Microsoft and Google and Oracle show that this is a place where they can be much more customer-centric and customer-friendly, over time I'm hopeful that will put pressure on Amazon and they will eliminate their egress fees.Corey: People also tend to assume that when I talk about this, that I'm somehow complaining about the level of discounting or whatnot, and they yell at me and say, “Oh, well, you should know by now, Corey, that no one at significant scale pays retail pricing.” “Thanks, professor. I appreciate that, but four years ago, or so I sat down with a startup founder who was sketching out the idea for a live video streaming service and said, ‘There's something wrong with my math because if I built this on AWS—which he knew very well, incidentally—it looks like it would cost me at our scale of where we're hoping to hit $65,000 a minute.'” And I checked and yep, sure enough, his math was not wrong, so he obviously did not build his proof of concept on top of AWS. And the last time I checked, they had raised several 100 million dollars in a bunch of different funding rounds.That is a company now that will not be on AWS because it was never an option. I want to talk as well about your announcement of R2, which is just spectacular. It is—please correct me if I get any of this wrong—it's an object store that lives in your existing distributed-points-of-presence-slash-data-centers-slash-colo-slash-a-bunch-of-computers-in-fancy-warehouse-rooms-with-the-lights-are-always-on-And-it's-always-cold-and-noisy. And people can store data there—Matthew: [crosstalk 00:10:23] aisles it's cold; in the other aisles, it's hot. But yes.Corey: Exactly. But it turns out when you lurk around to the hot aisle, that's not where all the buttons are and the things you're able to plug into, so it's freeze or sweat, and there's never a good answer. But it's an object store that costs a fair bit less than retail pricing for Amazon S3, or most other object stores out there. Which, okay, great. That's always good to see competition in the storage space, but specifically, you're not charging any data transfer costs whatsoever for doing this. First, where did this come from?Matthew: So, we needed it ourselves. I think all of the great products at Cloudflare start with an internal need. If you look at why do we build our zero-trust solutions? It's because we said we needed a security solution that was fast and reliable and secure to protect our employees as they were going out and using the internet.Why did we build Cloudflare Workers? Because we needed a very flexible compute platform where we could build systems ourselves. And that's not unique to us. I mean, why did Amazon build AWS? They built it because they needed those tools in order to continue to grow and expand as quickly as possible.And in fact, I think if you look at the products that Google makes that are really great, it ends up being the ones that Google's employees use themselves. Gmail started as Caribou once upon a time, which was their internal email system. And so we needed an object store and the sometimes belligerent CEO of Cloudflare insisted that our team couldn't use any of the public cloud object stores. And so we had to build it.That was the start of it and we've been using it internally for products over time. It powers, for example, Cloudflare Images, it powers a lot of our streaming video services, and it works great. And at some point, we said, “Can we take this and make it available to everyone?” The question that you've asked on Twitter, and I think a lot of people reasonably ask us, “What's the catch?”Corey: Well, in my defense, I think it's fair. There was an example that I gave of, “Okay, I'm going to go ahead and keep—because it's new, I don't trust new object stores. Great. I'm going to do the same experiment twice, keep one the pure AWS story and the other, I'm just going to add Cloudflare R2 to the mix so that I have to transfer out of AWS once.” For a one gigabyte file that gets shared out for a petabyte's worth of bandwidth, on AWS it costs roughly $52,000 to do that. If I go with the R2 solution, it cost me 13 cents, all of which except for a penny-and-a-half are AWS charges. And that just feels—when you're looking at that big of a gap, it's easy to look at that and think, “Okay, someone is trying to swindle me somewhere. And when you can't spot the sucker, it's probably me. What's the catch?”Matthew: I guess it's not really a catch; it's an explanation. We have been able to drive our bandwidth costs down low enough that in that particular use case, we have to store the file, and that, again, that—there's a hard disk in there and we replicate it to make sure that it's available so it's not just one hard disk, but it's multiple hard disks in various places, but that amortized over time, isn't that big a cost. And then bandwidth is effectively zero. And so if we can do that, then that's great.Maybe a different way of framing the question is like, “Why would we do that?” And I think what we see is that there is an opportunity for customers to be able to use the best of various cloud providers and hook the different parts together. So, people talk about multi-cloud all the time, and for a while, the way that I think people thought about that was you take the exact same workload and you run it in Azure and AWS. That turns out not to be—I mean, maybe some people do that, but it's super rare and it's incredibly hard.Corey: It has been a recurring theme of most things I say where, by default, that is one of the dumbest things I can imagine.Matthew: Yeah, that isn't good. But what people do want to do is they want to say, “Listen, there's some really great services that Amazon provides; we want to use those. And there's some really great services that Azure provides, and we want to use those. And Google's got some great machine learning, and so does IBM. And I want to sort of mix and match the various pieces together.”And the challenge in doing that is the egress fees. If everyone just had a detente and said there's going to be no egress fees for us to be able to hook these various [pits 00:14:48] together, then you would be able to take advantage of a lot of the different technologies and we would actually get stronger applications. And so the vision of what we're trying to build is how can we be the fabric that can stitch the various cloud providers together so that you can do that. And when we looked at that, and we said, “Okay, what's the path to getting there?” The big place where there's the just meatiest cost on egress fees is object stores.And so if you could have a centralized object store, and you can say then from that object go use whatever the best service is at Amazon, go use whatever the best service is at Google, go use whatever the best service is at Azure, that then allows, I think, actually people to take advantage of the cloud in a way which is what people really should mean when they talk about multi-cloud. Which is, there should be competition on the various features themselves, and you should be able to pick and choose the best of all of the different bits. And I think we as consumers then benefit from that. And so when we're looking at how we can strategically enable that future, building an object store was a real key part of that, and that's part of what we're doing. Now, how do we make money off of that? Well, there's a little bit off the storage, and again, even [laugh]—Corey: Well, that is the Amazonian answer there. It's like, “Your margin is my opportunity,” is a famous Bezos quote, and I figure you're sitting there saying, “Ah, it would cost $52,000 to do that in Amazon. Ah, we can make a penny-and-a-half.” That's very Amazonian, you could probably get hired over there with that philosophy.Matthew: Yeah. And this is a commodity service, just [laugh] storing data. If you look across the history of what Cloudflare has done, in 2014, we made encryption free because it's absurd to pay for math, right? I mean, it's just crazy right?Corey: Or to pay for security as a value-add. No, that should be baked into whatever you're doing, in an ideal world.Matthew: Domain registration. Like, it's writing something down in a ledger. It's a commodity; of course it should go to whatever the absolute cost is. On the other hand, there are things that we do that aren't commodities where we are able to better protect people because we see so much traffic, and we've built the machine learning models, and we've done those things, and so we charge for those things. So commodities, we think over time, go to effectively, whatever their cost is, and then the value is in the actual intelligent services that are on top of it.But an object store is a commodity and so we should be trying to drive that pricing down. And in the case of bandwidth, it's effectively free for us. And so if we can be that fabric that connects the different class together, I think that makes sense is a strategy for us and that's why R2 made a ton of sense for us to build and to launch.Corey: There seems to be a lack of ability for lots of folks, at least on the internet to imagine a use case other than theirs. I cheated by being a consultant, I get to borrow other people's use cases at a high degree of turnover. But the question I saw raised was, “Well, how many workloads really do that much egress from static objects that don't change? Doesn't sound like there'd be a whole lot of them.” And it's, “Oh, my sweet summer child. Sure, your app doesn't do a lot of that, but let me introduce it to my friends who are hosting videos on their website, for example, or large images that get accessed a whole bunch of times; things that are written once and then read forever by the internet.”Matthew: And we sit in a position where because of the role that Cloudflare plays where we sit in front of a number of these different cloud providers, we could actually look at the use cases and the data, and then build products in order to solve that. And that's why we started with Workers; that's why we then built the KV store that was on top of that; we built object-store next. And so you can see as we're sort of marching through these things, it is very much being informed by the data that we actually see from real customers. And one of the things that I really like about R2 is in exactly the example that you gave where you can keep everything in S3; you can set R2 in front of it and put it in slurp mode, and effectively it just—as those objects get pulled out, it starts storing them there. And so the migration path is super easy; you don't have to actually change anything about your application and will cut your bills substantially.And so I think that's the right thing to enable a multi-cloud world where, again, it's not you're running the exact same workload in different places, but you get to take advantage of the really great tack that all of these companies are building and use that. And then the companies will compete on building that tech well. So, it's not just about how do I get the data in and then kind of underinvest in all of the different services that I provide. It's how can we make sure that on a service-by-service basis, you actually are having real competition over time. And again, I think that's the right thing for customers, and absolutely R2 might not be the right thing for every use case that's out there, but I think that it wi—enabling more competition is going to make the cloud better for everyone.Corey: Oh, yeah. It's always fun hearing it from Amazonians. It's, “You have a service that talks to satellites in orbit. You really think that's a general-purpose thing that every company out there has to deal with?” No. Well, not yet, anyway.It also just feels to me like their transfer approach is antithetical to almost every other aspect of how they have built their cloud. Amazonians have told me repeatedly—I believe them—that their network is effectively magic. The fact that you can get near line rate between any two points without melting various [unintelligible 00:20:14], which shows that there was significant thought, work, effort, planning, technology, et cetera, put into the network. And I don't dispute that. But if I'm trying to build a workload and put it inside of AWS, I can control how it performs tied to budget; I can have a lot of RAM for things that are memory intensive, or I can have a little RAM; I can have great CPU performance or terrible CPU performance.The challenge with data transfer is it is uniformly great. “I want to get that data over there super quickly.” Yeah, awesome. I'm fine paying a premium for that. But I have this pile of data right here. I want to get it over there, ideally by Tuesday. There's no good way to do that, even with their Snowball—or Snow Family devices—when you fill them with data and send them into AWS, yeah, that's great. Then you just pay for the use of the device.Use them to send data out of AWS, they tack on an additional per-gigabyte fee for getting the data out. You're training as a lawyer, you went to the same law school that my wife did, the University of Chicago, which, oh, interesting stories down that path. But if we look at this, my argument is that the way to do an end-run around this is to sue Amazon for something, and then demand access to the data you have living in their environment during discovery. Make them give it to you for free, though, they'd probably find a way to charge it there, too. It's just a complete lack of vision and lack of awareness because it feels like they're milking a cash cow until it dies.Matthew: Yeah, they probably would charge for it and you'd also have to pay a lot of lawyers. So, I'm not sure that's the cost [crosstalk 00:21:44]—Corey: Its only works above certain volumes, I figure.Matthew: I do think that if your pricing strategy is designed to lock people in to prevent competition, then that does create other challenges. And there are certainly some University of Chicago law professors out there that have spent their careers arguing why antitrust laws don't make any sense, but I think that this is definitely one of those areas where you can see very clearly that customers are actually being harmed by the pricing strategy that's there. And the pricing strategy is not tied in any way to the underlying costs which are associated with that. And so I do think that, especially as you see other providers in the space—like Oracle—taking their bandwidth costs to effectively zero, that's the sort of thing that I think will have regulators start to scratch their heads. If tomorrow, AWS took egress costs to zero, and as a result, R2 was not as advantaged as it is today against them, you know, I think there are a lot of people who would say, “Oh, they showed Cloudflare.” I would do a happy dance because that's the best thing [thing they can do 00:22:52] for our customers.Corey: Our long-term goals, it sounds like, are relatively aligned. People think that I want to see AWS reign ascendant; people also say I want to see them burning and crashing into the sea, and neither one of those are true. What I want is, I want someone in a few years from now to be doing a startup and trying to figure out which cloud provider they should pick, and I want that to be a hard decision. Ideally, if you wind up reducing data transfer fees enough, it doesn't even have to be only one. There are stories that starts to turn into an actual realistic multi-cloud story that isn't, at its face, ridiculous. But right now, you have to pick a horse and ride it, for a variety of reasons. And I don't like that.Matthew: It's entirely egress-based. And again, I think that customers are better off if they are able to pick who is the best service at any time. And that is what encourages innovation. And over time, that's even what's good for the various cloud providers because it's what keeps them being valuable and keeps their customers thinking that they're building something which is magical and that they aren't trapped in the decision that they made, which is when we talk to a lot of the customers today, they feel that way. And it's I think part of why something like R2 and something like the Bandwidth Alliance has gotten so much attention because it really touches a nerve on what's frustrating customers today. And if tomorrow Amazon announced that they were eliminating egress fees and going head-to-head with R2, again, I think that's a wonderful outcome. And one that I think is unlikely, but I would celebrate it if it happened.Corey: This episode is sponsored by our friends at Oracle Cloud. Counting the pennies, but still dreaming of deploying apps instead of "Hello, World" demos? Allow me to introduce you to Oracle's Always Free tier. It provides over 20 free services and infrastructure, networking databases, observability, management, and security.And - let me be clear here - it's actually free. There's no surprise billing until you intentionally and proactively upgrade your account. This means you can provision a virtual machine instance or spin up an autonomous database that manages itself all while gaining the networking load, balancing and storage resources that somehow never quite make it into most free tiers needed to support the application that you want to build.With Always Free you can do things like run small scale applications, or do proof of concept testing without spending a dime. You know that I always like to put asterisks next to the word free. This is actually free. No asterisk. Start now. Visit https://snark.cloud/oci-free that's https://snark.cloud/oci-free.Corey: My favorite is people who don't do research on this stuff. They wind up saying, “Oh, yeah. Cloudflare is saying that bandwidth is a fixed cost. Of course not. They must be losing their shirt on this.”You are a publicly-traded company. Your gross margins are 76% or 77%, depending upon whether we're talking about GAAP or non-GAAP. Point being, you are clearly not selling this at a loss and hoping to make it up in volume. That's what a VC-backed company does. Is something that is real and as accurate.I want to, on some level, I guess, low-key apologize because I keep viewing Cloudflare through a lens that is increasingly inaccurate, which is as a CDN. But you've had Cloudflare Workers for a while, effectively Functions as a Service that run at the edge, which has this magic aura around it, that do various things, which is fascinating to me. You're launching R2; it feels like you are in some ways aiming at becoming a cloud provider, but instead of taking the traditional approach of building it from the region's outward, you're building it from the outward in. Is that a fair characterization?Matthew: I think that's right. I think fundamentally what Cloudflare is, is a network. And I remember early on in the pandemic, we did a series of fireside chats with people we thought we could learn from. And so was everyone from Andre Iguodala, the basketball player, to Mark Cuban, the entrepreneur, to we had a [unintelligible 00:25:56] governor and all kinds of things. And we these were just internal on off the record.And I got to do one with Eric Schmidt, the former CEO of Google. And I said, “You know, Eric, one of the things that we struggle with is describing what is Cloudflare.” And without hesitation, he said, “Oh, that's easy. You're the network I plug into and don't have to worry about anything else.” And I think that's better than I could say it, myself, and I think that's what it is that we fundamentally are: we're the network that fits together.Now, it turns out that in the process of being that network and enabling that network, we are going to build things like R2, which start to be an object store and starts to sort of step into some of the cloud provider space. And Workers is really just a way of programming that network in order to do that, but it turns out that there are a bunch of workloads that if you move them into the network itself, make sense—not going to be every workload, but a lot of workloads that makes sense there. And again, I think that you can actually be very bullish on all of the big public cloud providers and bullish on Cloudflare at the same time because what we want to do is enable the ability for people to mix and match, and change, and be the fabric that connects all of those things together. And so over time, if Amazon says, “We're going to drop egress fees,” it may be that R2 isn't a product that exists—I don't think they're going to do that, so I think it's something that is going to be successful for us and get a lot of new users to us—but fundamentally, I think that where the traditional public clouds think of themselves as the place you put data and you process data, I think we think of ourselves as the place you move data. And that's somewhat different.That then translates into it as we're building out the different pieces, where it does feel like we're building from the outside in. And it may be that over time, that put versus move distinction becomes narrower and narrower as we build more and more services like R2, and durable objects, and KV, and we're working on a database, and all those things. And it could be that we converge in a similar place.Corey: One thing I really appreciate about your vision because it is so atypical these days, is that you aren't trying to build the multifunction printer of companies. You are not trying to be all things to all people in every scenario. Which is impossible to do, but companies are still trying their level best to do it. You are staking out the bounds of where you were willing to start and where you're willing to stop, in a variety of different ways. I would be—how do I put it?—surprised if you at some point in the next five years come out with, “And this is our own database that we have built out that directly competes with the following open-source project that we basically have implemented their API and gone down that particular path.” It does not sound like it is in your core wheelhouse at that point. You don't need—to my understanding—to write your own database engine in order to do what you do.Matthew: Maybe. I mean, we actually are kind of working on a database because—Corey: Oh, no, here we go again.Matthew: [laugh]—and yeah—in a couple of different ways. So, the first way is, we want to make sure that if you're using Workers, you can connect to whatever database you want to use anywhere in the world. And that's something that's coming and we'll be there. At the same time, the challenge of distributed computing turns out not to be the computing, it turns out to be the data and figuring out how to—CAP theorem is real, right? Consistency, Availability, and Partition tolerance; you can pick any two out of the three, but you can't get all three.And so you there's always going to be some trade-off that's there. And so we don't see a lot of good examples. There's some really cool companies that are working on things in the space, but we don't see a lot of really good examples of who has built a database that can be run on a distributed workload system, like Cloudflare to it do well. And so our team internally needs that, and so we're trying to figure out how to build it for ourselves, and I would imagine that after we build it for ourselves—if it works the way we expect it will—that that will then be something that we open up.Our motivation and the way we think about products is we need to build the tools for our own team. Our team itself is customer zero, and then some of those things are very specific to us, but every once in a while, when there are functions that makes sense for others, then we'll build them as well. And that does maybe risk being the multifunction printer, but again, I think that because the customer for that starts with ourselves, that's how we think about it. And if there's someone else's making a great tool, we'll use that. But in this case, we don't see anyone that's built a multi-tenant, globally-distributed, ACID-compliant relational database.Corey: I can't let it pass on challenge. Sure they have, and you're running it yourself. DNS: the finest database in the world. You stuff whatever you want to text records, and now you have taken a finely crafted wrench and turned it into a barely acceptable hammer, which is what I love about doing that terrible approach. Yeah, relational is not going to quite work that way. But—Matthew: Yes. That's a fancy key-value store, right? So—and we've had that for a long time. As we're trying to build those things up, the good news is that, again, we've run data at scale for quite some time and proven that we can do it efficiently and reliably.Corey: There's a lot that can be said about building the things you need to deliver your product to customers. And maybe a database is a poor example here, but I don't see that your motivation in this space is to step into something completely outside your areas of expertise solely because there's money to be made over there. Well, yeah, fortune passes everywhere. The question is, which are you best positioned to wind up delivering an actual transformative solution to that space, and what parts of it are just rent-seeking where it's okay, we're going to go and wherever the money is, we're chasing that down.Matthew: Yeah, we're still a for-profit business, and we've been able to grow revenue well, but I think it is that what motivates us and what drives us comes back to our mission, which is how do you help build a better internet? And you can look at every single thing that we've done, and we try to be very long-term-oriented. So, for instance, when we in 2014 made encryption free, the number one reason at the time, when people upgraded for the free version of our service, the paid version of our service is they got encryption for that. And so it was super scary to say, “Hey, we're going to take the biggest feature and give it away for free,” but it was clearly the direction of history and we wanted to be on the right side of history. And we considered it a bug that the internet wasn't built in an encrypted way from the beginning.So, of course, that was going to head that direction. And so I think that we and then subsequently Let's Encrypt, and a bunch of others have said, it's absurd that you're charging for math. And again, I think that's a good example of how we think about products. And we want to continue to disrupt ourselves and take the things that once upon a time were reserved for our customers that spend $10 million-plus with us, and we want to keep pushing those things down because, over time, the real opportunity is if you do right by customers, there will be plenty of ways that you can earn some of their budget. And again, we think that is the long-term winning strategy.Corey: I would agree with this. You're not out there making sneakers and selling them because you see people spend a lot of money on that; you're delivering value for customers. I say this as one of your paying customers. I have zero problem paying you every month like clockwork, and it is the least cloud-like experience because I know exactly what the bill is going to be in advance, which is apparently not how things should be done in this industry, yadda, yadda, yadda. It is a refreshingly delightful experience every time.The few times I've had challenges with the service, it has almost always been a—I'll call it a documentation gap, where the way it was explained in the formal documentation was not how I conceptualize things, which, again, explaining what these complex things are to folks who are not steeped in certain areas of them is always going to be a challenge. But I cannot think back to a single customer service failure I've had with you folks. I can't look back at any point where you have failed me as a customer, which is a strange thing to say, given how incredibly efficient I am at stumbling over weird bugs.Matthew: Terrific to have you as a customer. We are hardly perfect and we make mistakes, but one of the things I think that we try to do and one of the core values of Cloudflare is transparency. If I think about, like, the original sins of tech, a lot of it is this bizarre secrecy which pervades the entire industry. When we make mistakes, we talk about them, and we explain them. When there's an error, we don't throw up a white page; we put up a page that has our logo on it because we want to own it.And that sometimes gets blowback because you're in front of it, but again, I think it's the right thing to do for customers. And it's and I think it's incredibly important. One of the things that's interesting is you mentioned that you know what your bill is going to be. If you go back and look at the history of hosting on the internet, in the early days of internet hosting, it looks a lot like AWS.Corey: Oh, 95th percentile transit billing; go for one five minutes segment over and boom, your bill explodes. Oh, I remember those days. Unkindly.Matthew: And it was super complicated. And then what happened is the hosting world switched from this incredibly complicated billing to much more simplified, predictable, unlimited bandwidth with maybe some asterisks, but largely that was in place. And then it's strange that Amazon came along and then has brought us back to the more complicated world that's out there. I would have predicted that that's a sine wave—Corey: It has to be. I mean—Matthew: —and it's going to go back and forth over time. But I would have predicted that we would be more in the direction of coming back toward simplify, everything included. And again, I think that's how we've priced our things from the beginning. I'm surprised that it has held on as long as it has, but I do think that there's going to be an opportunity for—and I don't think Amazon will be the leader here, but I think there will be an opportunity for one of the big clouds.And again, I think Oracle is probably doing this the best of any of them right now—to say, “How can we go away from that complexity? How can we make bills predictable? How can we not nickel and dime everything, but allow you to actually forecast and budget?” And it just seems like that's the natural arc of history, and we will head back toward that. And, again, I think we've done our part to push that along. And I'm excited that other cloud providers seem to be thinking about that now as well.Corey: Oh, yeah. What I do with fixing AWS bills is the same thing folks were doing in the 70s and 80s with long-distance bills for companies. We're definitely hitting that sine wave. I know that if I were at AWS in a leadership role, I would be actively embarrassed that the company that is delivering a better customer experience around financial things is Oracle of all companies, given their history of audits and surprising people and the rest. It is ridiculous to me.One last topic that I want to cover with you before we call it an episode is, back in college, you had a thesis that you have done an excellent job of effectively eliminating from the internet. And the theme of this, to my understanding, was that the internet is a fad. And I am so aligned with that because I'm someone who has said for years that emerging technologies are fads. I've said it about cloud, about virtualization, about containers. And I just skipped Kubernetes. And now I'm all-in on serverless, which means, of course it's going to fail because I'm always wrong on these things. But tell me about that.Matthew: When I was seven years old in 1980, my grandmother gave me an Apple ][+ computer for Christmas. And I took to it like a just absolute duck to water and did things that made me very popular in junior high school, like going to computer camp. And my mom used to sign up for continuing education classes at the local university in computer science, and basically sneak me in, and I'd do all the homework and all that. And I remember when I got to college, there was a small group of students that would come around and help other students set their computer up, and I had it all set up and was involved. And so, got pretty deeply involved in the computer science program at college.And then I remember there was a group of three other students—so they were four of us—and they wanted to start an online digital magazine. And at the time, this was pre-web, or right in the early days of the web; it was sort of nineteen… ninety-three. And we built it originally on old Apple technology called HyperCard. And we used to email out the old HyperCard stacks. And the HyperCard stacks kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and we'd send them out to the school so [laugh] that we—so we kept crashing the mail servers.But the college loved this, so they kept buying bigger and bigger mail servers. But they were—at some point, they said, “This won't scale. You got to switch technologies.” And they introduced us to two different groups. One was a printer company based out in San Francisco that had this technology called PDF. And I was a really big fan of PDF. I thought PDF was the future, it was definitely going to be how everything got published.And then the other was this group of dorky graduate students at the University of Illinois that had this thing called a browser, which was super flaky, and crashed all the time, and didn't work. And so of the four of us, I was the one who voted for PDF and the other three were like, “Actually, I think this HTML thing is going to be a hit.” And we built this. We won an award from Wired—which was only a print magazine at the time—that called us the first online-only weekly publication. And it was such a struggle to get anyone to write for it because browsers sucked and, you know, trying to get students on campus, but no one on campus cared.We would get these emails from the other side of the world, where I remember really clearly is this—in broken English—email from Japan saying, “I love the magazine. Please keep writing more for the magazine.” And I remember thinking at the time, “Why do I care if someone in Japan is reading this if the girl down the hall who I have a crush on isn't?” Which is obviously what motivates dorky college students like myself. And at that same time, you saw all of this internet explosion.I remember the moment when Netscape went public and just blew through all the expectations. And it was right around the time I was getting ready to graduate for college, and I was kind of just burned out on the entire thing. And I thought, “If I can't even get anyone to write for this dopey magazine and yet we're winning awards, like, this stuff has to all just be complete garbage.” And so wrote a thesis on—ehh, it was not a very good [laugh] thesis. It's—but one of the things I said was that largely the internet was a fad, and that if it wasn't, that it had some real risks because if you enabled everyone to connect with whatever their weird interests and hobbies were, that you would very quickly fall to the lowest common denominator. And predicted some things that haven't come true. I thought for sure that you would have both a liberal and conservative search engine. And it's a miracle to this day, I think that doesn't exist.Corey: Now, that you said it, of course, it's going to.Matthew: Well, I don't know I've… [sigh] we'll see. But it is pretty amazing that Google has been able to, again, thread that line and stay largely apolitical. I'm surprised there aren't more national search engines; the fact that it only Russia and China have national search engines and France and Germany don't is just strange to me. It seems like if you're controlling the source of truth and how people find it, that seems like something that governments would try and take over. There are some things that in retrospect, look pretty wise, but there were a lot more things that looked really, really stupid. And so I think at some level, I had to build Cloudflare to atone for that stupidity all those years ago.Corey: There's something to be said for looking back and saying, “Yeah, I had an opinion, and with the light of new information, I am changing my opinion.” For some reason, in some circles, it feels like that gets interpreted as a sign of weakness, but I couldn't disagree more, it's, “Well, I had an opinion based upon what I saw at the time. Turns out, I was wrong, and here we are.” I really wish more people were capable of doing that.Matthew: It's one of the things we test for in hiring. And I think the characteristic that describes people who can do that well is really empathy. The understanding that the experiences that you have lead you to have a unique set of insights, but they also create a unique set of blind spots. And it's rare that you find people that are able to do that. And whenever you do—whenever we do we hire them.Corey: To that end, as far as hiring and similar topics go, if people want to learn more about how you view things, and how you see the world, and what you're releasing—maybe even potentially work with you—where can they find you?Matthew: [laugh]. So, the joke, sometimes, internal at Cloudflare is that Cloudflare is a blogging company that runs this global network just to have something to write about. So, I think we're unlike most corporate blogs, which are—if our corporate blog were typical, we'd have articles on, like, “Here are the top six reasons you need a fast website,” which would just be, you know, shoot me. But instead, I think we write about the things that are going on online and our unique view into them. And we have a core value of transparency, so we talk about that. So, if you're interested in Cloudflare, I'd encourage you to—especially if you're of the sort of geekier variety—to check out blog.cloudflare.com, and I think that's a good place to learn about us. And I still write for that occasionally.Corey: You're one of the only non-AWS corporate blogs that I pay attention to, for that exact reason. It is not, “Oh, yay. More content marketing by folks who just feel the need to hit a quota as opposed to talking about something valuable and interesting.” So, it's appreciated.Matthew: The secret to it was we realized at some point that the purpose of the blog wasn't to attract customers, it was to attract potential employees. And it turns out, if you sort of change that focus, then you talk to people like their peers, and it turns out then that the content that you create is much more authentic. And that turns out to be a great way to attract customers as well.Corey: I want to thank you for taking so much time out of your day to speak with me. I really appreciate it.Matthew: Thanks for all you're doing. And we're very aligned, and keep fighting the good fight. And someday, again, we'll eliminate cloud egress fees, and we can share a beer when we do.Corey: I will absolutely be there for it. Matthew, Prince, CEO, and co-founder of Cloudflare. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice along with a rambling comment explaining that while data packets into a cloud provider are cheap and crappy, the ones being sent to the internet are beautiful, bespoke, unicorn snowflakes, so of course they cost money.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.Announcer: This has been a HumblePod production. Stay humble.

Watch on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlsTlFW7BSoThe following is my conversation with Lee Robinson, Head of Developer Relations at Vercel which recently launched Next.js 12, the most popular framework in the most popular programming language in the world.The conversation can be broken into two parts. The first covering the new features in Next.js, primarily Next.js Middleware and Edge Handlers with zero Cold Starts thanks to Cloudflare Workers, the Next.js Live realtime collaboration feature, and how they are rewriting everything in Rust. The last third covers our respective views on Developer Relations, both doing the job and hiring for it.Along the way we touch on Cloudflare vs Vercel, Remix vs Next.js, Static export vs Dynamic rendering, Webpack vs SWC, OpenTelemetry and Observability, WASM and awesome people we know in the industry.Timestamps: [00:00:00] Cold Open [00:01:39] Next.js 12 [00:03:52] Next.js Middleware[00:06:08] Edge Functions[00:07:23] React Server Components[00:11:06] Netlify Edge Handlers[00:12:48] Cloudflare & Vercel[00:15:37] Self-hosting Next.js Middleware[00:17:36] Static vs Dynamic Tradeoffs[00:19:18] Remix vs Next.js[00:22:32] next export[00:25:13] Webpack 4 to 5[00:26:06] Next.js Live[00:30:50] Rust Rewrite[00:34:36] OpenTelemetry and Observability[00:37:14] Webpack vs swc and WASM[00:40:41] Vercel Conference Strategy[00:44:38] DevRel at Vercel[00:52:50] Vercel and Svelte[00:57:48] Dev Marketing and Content Mix

This Episode is sponsored by Cloudflare Workers (https://enjoythevue.io/cloudflare-workers) Join us today as we talk to Ash Ryan Arnwine (developer experience leader for DataStax) about Getting Started Guides. Ash takes us through his experience with Vue, and how the guides in Vue 1 were the North Star for him when he was working with Adobe Creative Cloud. We discuss the challenges in migrating from different versions, and the downsides to Getting Started videos in place of text. Find out how keeping Ash's four-year-old daughter from sleeping is the highest praise the Vue team has received, and what each of the team feels is better: prescriptive or flexible guides. From picking the correct level to pitch your instructions at, to the different types of people defined as “developers”, you don't want to miss out on this information-packed episode! Key Points From This Episode: Welcome to Ash Ryan Arnwine, developer experience leader for DataStax and previously, Adobe Creative Cloud. Ash's introduction to Vue and why it became the North Star for thinking about writing documentation.  What makes the path from getting started to building an app clear.  Finding the balance between prescriptive and “sprinkling in some HTML” in Vue.  How Vue has a background framework beyond the beginner's instructions. The importance of being able to access the full app code on GitHub. Picking the level of developer that your Getting Started Guide caters to (sometimes the middle-ground is the worst place to be). Why you need to maintain your Getting Started Guide. How to highlight important information that people might skip when reading the Getting Started Guide.  The challenges of migrating from Vue 2 to Vue 3, and communicating it to users. Why it's crucial to make a roadmap of where the app is going. How Vue's completely honest self-appraisal won Ash over.  Why videos are less appealing than documents about Getting Started.  The naming conventions for Vue. Creating a community to talk about “software things” in different places.  How to contact Ash. Discover this week's picks from each of the team! Tweetables: “For a long time, I think Vue sort of became, in some ways, a North star for me personally, when thinking about documentation, and how do you orient somebody into a completely new technology.” — @ashryan_io (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io?lang=en) [0:02:12] “One thing that I've learned over time with just in leading developer relations and developer experience is that oftentimes, it's the sample code that turns into the most popular resource.” — @ashryan_io (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io?lang=en) [0:25:41] “Oftentimes, I think that the imperative is just like help people get started, help people get started, and we don't get a chance to step back and think, 'Okay, who are the people? What are they getting started doing?” — @ashryan_io (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io?lang=en) [0:29:59] “Developers are not a monolith.” — @ashryan_io (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io?lang=en) [0:33:44] "I think that when pondering developer experience, broadly, one of the things that is important to get to and be able to offer, but often isn't there at the very beginning is some sort of insight into the future, in terms of where things are going.” — @ashryan_io (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io?lang=en) [0:46:19] “Today, there's like so many awesome resources to learn. It's almost too much, right?” — @ashryan_io (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io?lang=en) [0:55:34] Links Mentioned in Today's Episode: Adobe Creative Cloud (https://www.adobe.com/creativecloud.html) DataStax (https://www.datastax.com) Ash's video with daughter (https://twitter.com/ashryan_io/status/1435797151255236609) The Breath of the Wild (https://www.zelda.com/breath-of-the-wild), Nintendo Switch Saturn Devouring His Son (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son), Goya Twitter: ashryan_io (http://twitter.com/ashryan_io) Github: ashryanbeats (http://github.com/ashryanbeats) Instagram: ashryan.io (http://instagram.com/ashryan.io) Website: ashryan.io (http://ashryan.io) Obsidian (https://obsidian.md) What You Do Matters: Boxed Set: What Do You Do with an Idea?, What Do You Do with a Problem?, What Do You Do with a Chance? (https://bookshop.org/books/what-you-do-matters-boxed-set-what-do-you-do-with-an-idea-what-do-you-do-with-a-problem-what-do-you-do-with-a-chance/9781946873149), Kobi Yamada Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9376612/) Neutrogena® Hydro Boost Body Gel Cream (https://www.neutrogena.com/products/skincare/neutrogena-hydro-boost-body-gel-cream---original-scent/6811343.html) The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles (https://www.ace-attorney.com/great1-2), Capcom (Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, Steam) Humans of Flat Goya Rendition Print (https://www.redbubble.com/i/art-print/Humans-of-Flat-Goya-Rendition-by-mimi-claire/64318966.1G4ZT), mimi-claire (RedBubble) Special Guest: Ash Ryan Arwine.

This week we discuss TriggerMesh going open source, the new Enterprise Mac and Honeycomb raising VC . Plus, will Matt become a TikTok influencer…? Rundown Introducing TriggerMesh Open Source (https://www.triggermesh.com/blog/introducing-triggermesh-open-source) Cockroach Labs Announces CockroachDB Serverless (https://www.infoq.com/news/2021/10/cockroachdb-serverless/) The Enterprise of the MacBook Pro macOS Monterey Release Candidate Undoes Safari Changes, Reintroduces Old Tab Design (https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/18/macos-monterey-reverts-safari-changes/) HDMI Port Limitations (https://twitter.com/tapbot_paul/status/1450166030446235650) Apple innovators do it again with $19 'Polishing Cloth' (https://mashable.com/article/apple-polishing-cloth) Apple's new 140W charger can fast charge a lot more than just your MacBook Pro (https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/19/22734233/apple-140w-macbook-charging-brick-gan-usb-c-pd-3-1-third-party-chargers) Funny Tweet Storm of Apple Event (https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/1450146483030749184) Steven Sinofsky on Apple (https://twitter.com/stevesi/status/1450255227945242628?s=21) How Honeycomb Is Using $50M in New Funding to Bring Observability to All (https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/series-c-funding-bringing-observability-to-all) Expensify builds a SQLite Database from their S-1 (https://twitter.com/craig_tracey/status/1450459102975565829?s=21) Yes, there's a market for Excel influencers on TikTok (https://www.protocol.com/workplace/productivity-app-influencers) Relevant to your interests Welcome to Dagger.io (http://dagger.io/) Microsoft shutting down LinkedIn in China (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-58911297) How Windows NTFS finally made it into Linux (https://www.theregister.com/2021/10/13/how_ntfs_finally_made_it/) GitLab jumps 22% in its Nasdaq debut after code-sharing company priced IPO above expected range (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/14/gitlab-jumps-in-nasdaq-debut-after-pricing-ipo-above-expected-range.html) Elastic to buy 'continuous profiling' startup Optimyze (https://www.zdnet.com/article/elastic-to-buy-continuous-profiling-startup-optimyze/) Slackers of the World, Unite! (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/slack-office-trouble/620173/) Amazon To Allow Employees To Work Remotely Indefinitely (https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/amazon-to-allow-employees-to-work-remotely-indefinitely-7573211.html) Google bets on the cloud breaking up (https://www.ft.com/content/ab36b9e2-00e0-469c-9388-fa034f9bfd63) The replacement for Google Reader? (https://twitter.com/__apf__/status/1446503789586894850?s=20) Why a Key Google Cloud Product Ended Up Generating Less Than 0.1% of Revenue (https://www.theinformation.com/articles/why-a-key-google-cloud-product-ended-up-generating-less-than-0-1-of-revenue?utm_source=ti_app) Fully-local simulator for Cloudflare Workers (https://github.com/cloudflare/miniflare) The Largely Untold Story Of How One Guy In California Keeps The World's Computers On The Right… (https://onezero.medium.com/the-largely-untold-story-of-how-one-guy-in-california-keeps-the-worlds-computers-on-the-right-time-a97a5493bf73) Expensify Announces Filing of Registration Statement for Proposed Initial Public Offering (https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20211015005640/en/Expensify-Announces-Filing-of-Registration-Statement-for-Proposed-Initial-Public-Offering) Programming languages ranked by how much electricity they use: (https://twitter.com/mit_csail/status/1450135081226489857?s=21) Yes, there's a market for Excel influencers on TikTok (https://www.protocol.com/workplace/productivity-app-influencers) IBM shares drop on weaker-than-expected quarterly revenue (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/ibm-earnings-q3-2021.html) Facebook is planning to rebrand the company with a new name (https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/19/22735612/facebook-change-company-name-metaverse) ****- Amazon cloud storage challenger Backblaze files to go public (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/cloud-object-storage-company-backblaze-files-to-go-public.html) Snowflake Launches A Media Cloud, As It Builds Out Programmatic Services (https://www.adexchanger.com/platforms/snowflake-launches-a-media-cloud-as-it-builds-out-programmatic-services/) Twilio delves more deeply into marketing with new tool built on $3.2B Segment acquisition (https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/20/twilio-delves-more-deeply-into-marketing-with-new-tool-built-on-3-2b-segment-acquisition/) Nonsense this is hilarious but also really awesome ux (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBs8RaiVEAAlDJL.jpg) Sponsors strongDM — Manage and audit remote access to infrastructure. Start your free 14-day trial today at strongdm.com/SDT (http://strongdm.com/SDT) CBT Nuggets — Training available for IT Pros anytime, anywhere. Start your 7-day Free Trial today at cbtnuggets.com/sdt (https://cbtnuggets.com/sdt) Conferences TriggerMesh Open Source Software Webinar (https://www.triggermesh.com/oss-intro) - October 28, 2021 MongoDB.local London 2021 (https://events.mongodb.com/dotlocallondon) - November 9, 2021 THAT Conference comes to Texas January 17-20, 2022 (https://that.us/activities/call-for-counselors/tx/2022) Listener Feedback InfraCloud is hiring a Site reliability Engineer (SRE) in India (https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/2763208585/?alternateChannel=search&refId=eSIVvVIqBdTCFUIIcV6Fvw%3D%3D&trackingId=E8rnW8pH9WYFNfz1ZMtONw%3D%3D) James wants you to superorbital.io as a Kubernetes focused Cloud Engineer (https://superorbital.io/careers/) SDT news & hype Join us in Slack (http://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/slack). Send your postal address to stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com (mailto:stickers@softwaredefinedtalk.com) and we will send you free laptop stickers! Follow us on Twitch (https://www.twitch.tv/sdtpodcast), Twitter (https://twitter.com/softwaredeftalk), Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/softwaredefinedtalk/), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/software-defined-talk/) and YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi3OJPV6h9tp-hbsGBLGsDQ/featured). Brandon built the Quick Concall iPhone App (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/quick-concall/id1399948033?mt=823) and he wants you to buy it for $0.99. Use the code SDT to get $20 off Coté's book, (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt) Digital WTF (https://leanpub.com/digitalwtf/c/sdt), so $5 total. Become a sponsor of Software Defined Talk (https://www.softwaredefinedtalk.com/ads)! Recommendations Brandon: Foundation (https://tv.apple.com/us/show/foundation/umc.cmc.5983fipzqbicvrve6jdfep4x3?ign-itscg=MC_20000&ign-itsct=atvp_brand_omd&mttn3pid=Google%20AdWords&mttnagencyid=a5e&mttncc=US&mttnsiteid=143238&mttnsubad=OUS2019859_1-547710607871-c&mttnsubkw=104006946180__BCaSlfl0_&mttnsubplmnt=) and Squid Game (https://www.netflix.com/title/81040344) Netflix's "Squid Game" Generated $891 Million In Value: Report (https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/netflixs-squid-game-generated-s891-million-in-value-report-news.141147.html) Matt: Gauntlet Slayer Edition (https://store.steampowered.com/app/258970/Gauntlet_Slayer_Edition/) MacOS Mission Control drag & drop between screens Photo Credits Banner Image (https://unsplash.com/photos/IckkprBRmUU) CoverArt (https://unsplash.com/photos/QSBm03YHtrI)

Brittik and Aravind talk about what they've built with workers and tell you how awesome they are. They also talk about how Codepen makes use of Cloudflare workers at scale. Overview What they have built Behind the scenes of a worker (v8 isolates) Deno deploy Cloudflare Pages Hosts Aravind Balla Brittik Basu Learning Curve Podcast

This week's episode is sponsored by Cloudflare Workers (https://enjoythevue.io/cloudflare-workers)! Have you ever wished that Vue was smaller? We know we have. Petite-Vue is an astonishing 5.5KB, which is so small, it's almost invisible. Dave Rupert, a developer at Paravel, joins us today to discuss all things Petite-Vue. We hear how this smaller version was released, and Dave shares what his experience of using it has been like. Often, when a framework is more compact, there are tradeoffs or sacrifices users have to make, but this does not seem to be the case with Petite-Vue. We talk about Alpine, how Petite-Vue is different, and we also get stuck into the use cases for Petite-Vue. Dave shares one of his totally wild ideas, which, naturally, Alex is all over. Our wide-ranging conversation also touches on interviews and what needs to change with them, templates and styles, and as usual, we wrap up with everyone's picks for the week. Tune in to hear it all! Key Points From This Episode: Get to know today's guest, Dave Rupert. Everyone's take on how they would feel if Vue was five kilobytes. The story of how Petite-Vue came to be released. Dave's experience of using Alpine and some of the challenges he had with this. What the jump from Vue to Petite-Vue is like. Hear about the idea that Dave runs past Alex. Some other great use cases for Petite-Vue. Unpacking the broken coding interview system; things need to change. Questioning some obscure hiring requirements. The framework Dave uses given that he works in an agency. In business, frameworks can become politicized and sites for contention. Things other people do that make everyone believe they are monsters. Diving into the world of template style and script. Where you can find Dave online to tell him how wrong he is about all his choices. Everyone's picks for this week; there are some great ones! Tweetables: “I think five kilobytes is the perfect stealth technology, like Alex is talking about that you can kind of sneak it into a project and no one's going to go, ‘Hey, hey, hey, what's going on now? I didn't approve this.'” — @davatron5000 (https://twitter.com/davatron5000?lang=en) [0:02:54] “I was kind of a late bloomer I guess for Vue but I just was like, you know, I think the more I've used Vue, the more it has all the features I like.” — @davatron5000 (https://twitter.com/davatron5000?lang=en) [0:37:36] “I'm just saying if you drop the opening curly brace on a four loop, you're a monster.” — @davatron5000 (https://twitter.com/davatron5000?lang=en) [0:47:58] Links Mentioned in Today's Episode: My petite-vue Review (https://daverupert.com/2021/07/petite-vue-review), Dave Rupert Evan You's petite-vue preview (https://twitter.com/youyuxi/status/1410759893359874050), Twitter Angie Jones (https://twitter.com/techgirl1908), Twitter Twitter: davatron5000 (http://twitter.com/davatron5000) Website: daverupert.com (http://daverupert.com) Mini Motorways (https://dinopoloclub.com/games/mini-motorways/), Dinosaur Polo Club (Apple Arcade, Steam) Bubble (https://bookshop.org/books/bubble-9781250245564/9781250245564), Morris, Morgan, Cliff, Riess  Chester's Cheddar Flavored Paws Cheese Flavored Snacks (https://www.kroger.com/p/chester-s-cheddar-flavored-paws-cheese-flavored-snacks/0002840056426) Bat,bat Black Coffee Soda (https://www.batbatsoda.com/shop/black-coffee-soda) Special (https://www.netflix.com/title/80987458), Netflix The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles (https://www.ace-attorney.com/great1-2), Capcom (Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, Steam) Special Guest: Dave Rupert.

The Jabber panel along with Vitali Zaidman jump in and discuss how your browser cache works, what the standard is, and what you can expect when you're trying to take advantage of the performance characteristics of your users' browsers. The browser cache control settings and techniques are not straightforward, so buckle up and learn how to get your browsers to load assets from memory. Panel AJ O'Neal Charles Max Wood Dan Shappir Steve Edwards Guest Vitali Zaidman  Sponsors JavaScript Error and Performance Monitoring | Sentry Dev Influencers Accelerator Links Intro To Service Workers & Caching - YouTube Love your cache: Optimize for the second load - YouTube HTTP caching Two Important Differences between Firefox and IE Caching Vitali Zaidman | Software Architect | Personal Website GitHub: Vitali Zaidman ( vzaidman ) Twitter: Vitali Zaidman ( @vzaidman ) Picks AJ- WASM, Rust, the State of Async/Await - Utah Rust Nov 2020 - YouTube (CloudFlare Workers w/ WASM + Rust) AJ- Beyond Code Live 004 - How Domains (URLs) Work - YouTube AJ- Beyond Code Live 005 - Setup your First Server, Right Now (and get $100 or 60 days free) - YouTube Charles- Fanatical Prospecting Charles- Riverside.fm Steve- Why Don’t Sheep Shrink In The Rain? Steve- The wholly pun_bible | Instagram Contact AJ: AJ ONeal CoolAJ86 on GIT Beyond Code Bootcamp Beyond Code Bootcamp | GitHub Follow Beyond Code Bootcamp | Facebook Twitter: Beyond Code Bootcamp ( @_beyondcode ) Contact Charles: Devchat.tv DevChat.tv | Facebook Twitter: DevChat.tv ( @devchattv ) Contact Steve: Twitter: Steve Edwards ( @wonder95 ) GitHub: Steve Edwards ( wonder95 ) LinkedIn: Steve Edwards

The Jabber panel along with Vitali Zaidman jump in and discuss how your browser cache works, what the standard is, and what you can expect when you're trying to take advantage of the performance characteristics of your users' browsers. The browser cache control settings and techniques are not straightforward, so buckle up and learn how to get your browsers to load assets from memory. Panel AJ O'Neal Charles Max Wood Dan Shappir Steve Edwards Guest Vitali Zaidman  Sponsors JavaScript Error and Performance Monitoring | Sentry Dev Influencers Accelerator Links Intro To Service Workers & Caching - YouTube Love your cache: Optimize for the second load - YouTube HTTP caching Two Important Differences between Firefox and IE Caching Vitali Zaidman | Software Architect | Personal Website GitHub: Vitali Zaidman ( vzaidman ) Twitter: Vitali Zaidman ( @vzaidman ) Picks AJ- WASM, Rust, the State of Async/Await - Utah Rust Nov 2020 - YouTube (CloudFlare Workers w/ WASM + Rust) AJ- Beyond Code Live 004 - How Domains (URLs) Work - YouTube AJ- Beyond Code Live 005 - Setup your First Server, Right Now (and get $100 or 60 days free) - YouTube Charles- Fanatical Prospecting Charles- Riverside.fm Steve- Why Don’t Sheep Shrink In The Rain? Steve- The wholly pun_bible | Instagram Contact AJ: AJ ONeal CoolAJ86 on GIT Beyond Code Bootcamp Beyond Code Bootcamp | GitHub Follow Beyond Code Bootcamp | Facebook Twitter: Beyond Code Bootcamp ( @_beyondcode ) Contact Charles: Devchat.tv DevChat.tv | Facebook Twitter: DevChat.tv ( @devchattv ) Contact Dan: GitHub: Dan Shappir ( DanShappir ) LinkedIn: Dan Shappir Twitter: Dan Shappir ( @DanShappir ) Contact Steve: Twitter: Steve Edwards ( @wonder95 ) GitHub: Steve Edwards ( wonder95 ) LinkedIn: Steve Edwards

The Jabber panel along with Vitali Zaidman jump in and discuss how your browser cache works, what the standard is, and what you can expect when you're trying to take advantage of the performance characteristics of your users' browsers. The browser cache control settings and techniques are not straightforward, so buckle up and learn how to get your browsers to load assets from memory. Panel AJ O'Neal Charles Max Wood Dan Shappir Steve Edwards Guest Vitali Zaidman  Sponsors JavaScript Error and Performance Monitoring | Sentry Dev Influencers Accelerator Links Intro To Service Workers & Caching - YouTube Love your cache: Optimize for the second load - YouTube HTTP caching Two Important Differences between Firefox and IE Caching Vitali Zaidman | Software Architect | Personal Website GitHub: Vitali Zaidman ( vzaidman ) Twitter: Vitali Zaidman ( @vzaidman ) Picks AJ- WASM, Rust, the State of Async/Await - Utah Rust Nov 2020 - YouTube (CloudFlare Workers w/ WASM + Rust) AJ- Beyond Code Live 004 - How Domains (URLs) Work - YouTube AJ- Beyond Code Live 005 - Setup your First Server, Right Now (and get $100 or 60 days free) - YouTube Charles- Fanatical Prospecting Charles- Riverside.fm Steve- Why Don’t Sheep Shrink In The Rain? Steve- The wholly pun_bible | Instagram Contact AJ: AJ ONeal CoolAJ86 on GIT Beyond Code Bootcamp Beyond Code Bootcamp | GitHub Follow Beyond Code Bootcamp | Facebook Twitter: Beyond Code Bootcamp ( @_beyondcode ) Contact Charles: Devchat.tv DevChat.tv | Facebook Twitter: DevChat.tv ( @devchattv ) Contact Dan: GitHub: Dan Shappir ( DanShappir ) LinkedIn: Dan Shappir Twitter: Dan Shappir ( @DanShappir ) Contact Steve: Twitter: Steve Edwards ( @wonder95 ) GitHub: Steve Edwards ( wonder95 ) LinkedIn: Steve Edwards

Mark Traphagen, VP Product Marketing & Training at seoClarity, joins Search Engine Journal founder Loren Baker to discuss SEO automation. No longer a luxury add-on, automation is essential. Learn more about Edge SEO (the ability to make site changes “in the cloud” without involving IT or dev) and Cloudflare Workers – and whether this is the future of SEO, at scale.

After checking in on the progress of Rambo HQ 2.0 and a visit to John’s Static Site Generation Corner, John and Rambo briefly discuss the ongoing trial between Apple and Epic Games, and then dive into topics like project planning and how to pick what server-side framework to use for a new project. Sponsored by Kandji: A modern, cloud-based platform for centrally managing and securing your Mac, iPhone, iPad, and Apple TV devices, saving IT teams countless hours of manual work with features like one-click compliance templates and 150+ pre-built automations, apps, and workflows. Request access. Download MP3 Hosts: Gui on Twitter: @_inside John on Twitter: @johnsundell Links The Thread network protocol Plot Preview of Plot’s new Component-based API John’s chart of article word counts Node.js Vapor GraphQL Cloudflare Workers Subscribe: 🟣 Apple Podcasts 🟠 Overcast 🟢 Spotify If you have any feedback about the show, feel free to reach out on Twitter or send us an email.

In episode 77 of JAMstack Radio, Brian speaks with Rita Kozlov of Cloudflare. They discuss how the success of Cloudflare Workers led to Cloudflare Pages, the new JAMstack platform that allows developers to deploy static sites easily.

In episode 77 of JAMstack Radio, Brian speaks with Rita Kozlov of Cloudflare. They discuss how the success of Cloudflare Workers led to Cloudflare Pages, the new JAMstack platform that allows developers to deploy static sites easily.

In episode 77 of JAMstack Radio, Brian speaks with Rita Kozlov of Cloudflare. They discuss how the success of Cloudflare Workers led to Cloudflare Pages, the new JAMstack platform that allows developers to deploy static sites easily. The post Ep. #77, Exploring Cloudflare Pages with Rita Kozlov appeared first on Heavybit.

In episode 77 of JAMstack Radio, Brian speaks with Rita Kozlov of Cloudflare. They discuss how the success of Cloudflare Workers led to Cloudflare Pages, the new JAMstack platform that allows developers to deploy static sites easily. The post Ep. #77, Exploring Cloudflare Pages with Rita Kozlov appeared first on Heavybit.

Heute mit: Steuer-ID, WhatsApp, Glücksspiel-Apps, Erasmus+ ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS*** Wie könnenSie auf Ihren Websites Performance-Bremsen lösen und relevanter für Suchmaschinen werden? Bei der virtuellen Frontend-Entwicklerkonferenz c't am 9. Februar dreht sich alles um die Performance-Optimierung von Websites. Erfahren Sie in sechs Vorträgen Wissenswertes rund um: Googles Core Web Vitals, Bild-Optimierungen, Testing mit Chrome Devtools und CloudFlare Workers, JavaScript-Feinschliff sowie Performance-Verbesserungen mit WordPress. Drei vertiefende Workshops am 10. Februar ergänzen die Veranstaltung. Weitere Details und Tickets finden Sie unter www.ctwebdev.de ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS ENDE***

Heute mit: Agri-Gaia, Plastikmüll, Disney+ Star, Doomsday Clock ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS*** Wie könnenSie auf Ihren Websites Performance-Bremsen lösen und relevanter für Suchmaschinen werden? Bei der virtuellen Frontend-Entwicklerkonferenz c't am 9. Februar dreht sich alles um die Performance-Optimierung von Websites. Erfahren Sie in sechs Vorträgen Wissenswertes rund um: Googles Core Web Vitals, Bild-Optimierungen, Testing mit Chrome Devtools und CloudFlare Workers, JavaScript-Feinschliff sowie Performance-Verbesserungen mit WordPress. Drei vertiefende Workshops am 10. Februar ergänzen die Veranstaltung. Weitere Details und Tickets finden Sie unter www.ctwebdev.de ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS ENDE***

Heute mit: Wirtschaftskrise, Joy-Con-Drift, Facebook, Starlink ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS*** Wie könnenSie auf Ihren Websites Performance-Bremsen lösen und relevanter für Suchmaschinen werden?Bei der virtuellen Frontend-Entwicklerkonferenz c't am 9.Februar dreht sich alles um die Performance-Optimierung von Websites. Erfahren Sie in sechs Vorträgen Wissenswertes rund um: Googles Core Web Vitals, Bild-Optimierungen, Testing mit Chrome Devtools und CloudFlare Workers, JavaScript-Feinschliff sowie Performance-Verbesserungen mit WordPress. Drei vertiefende Workshops am 10.2. ergänzen die Veranstaltung. Weitere Details und Tickets finden Sie unter www.ctwebdev.de ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS ENDE***

Heute mit: autonomes Fahren, Birdwatch, Eventim, OpenLabs ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS*** Wie könnenSie auf Ihren Websites Performance-Bremsen lösen und relevanter für Suchmaschinen werden?Bei der virtuellen Frontend-Entwicklerkonferenz c't am 9.Februar dreht sich alles um die Performance-Optimierung von Websites. Erfahren Sie in sechs Vorträgen Wissenswertes rund um: Googles Core Web Vitals, Bild-Optimierungen, Testing mit Chrome Devtools und CloudFlare Workers, JavaScript-Feinschliff sowie Performance-Verbesserungen mit WordPress. Drei vertiefende Workshops am 10.2. ergänzen die Veranstaltung. Weitere Details und Tickets finden Sie unter www.ctwebdev.de ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS ENDE***

Heute mit: Homeoffice, Wingcopter, Pilzmyzel, Clubhouse ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS*** Wie könnenSie auf Ihren Websites Performance-Bremsen lösen und relevanter für Suchmaschinen werden?Bei der virtuellen Frontend-Entwicklerkonferenz c't am 9.Februar dreht sich alles um die Performance-Optimierung von Websites. Erfahren Sie in sechs Vorträgen Wissenswertes rund um: Googles Core Web Vitals, Bild-Optimierungen, Testing mit Chrome Devtools und CloudFlare Workers, JavaScript-Feinschliff sowie Performance-Verbesserungen mit WordPress. Drei vertiefende Workshops am 10.2. ergänzen die Veranstaltung. Weitere Details und Tickets finden Sie unter www.ctwebdev.de ***SPONSOR-HINWEIS ENDE***

This time we're joined by Svelte core maintainer Luke Edwards, known for his many NPM packages. We talk Cloudflare Workers, his jest alternative uvu and a bunch of other cool stuff.

Interesting Cloudflare resourcesHello, and thanks for listening to SEO tips today.I stumbled upon a few interesting SEO resources from Cloudflare that I thought I would share. They seem like an interesting effort by Cloudflare to market to the SEO community to me, but both of these are free tools that provide insights that are hard to come by elsewhere.First up - their free privacy-first web analytics offering, which includes Web Vitals diagnostics.I think it's worth exploring, since it's free - including for non-customers, though limited options for marketers. And then let's talk about their WordPress plugin.As a solution to the potentially less than ideal web core vital scores you see in their free analytics, you can work to improve it automatically with their WordPress plugin. They're calling it “Automatic Platform Optimization” and it uses their Cloudflare Workers to cache dynamic content. Check it out: Cloudflare plugin for WordPress.Those are your tips for today. If you're looking for a sitewide way to measure web core vitals, check out Cloudflare's free web analytics, and if you're on WordPress you should check out their new plugin.Thanks for listening. Come back tomorrow for another SEO tip.

Y me resultaron tan útiles que me he puesto a investigar un poco sobre ellos y en este episodio hacemos una introducción

Y me resultaron tan útiles que me he puesto a investigar un poco sobre ellos y en este episodio hacemos una introducción

In the serverless paradigm, the idea is to abstract away the backend so that developers don't need to deal with it. That's all well and good when it comes to servers and complex infrastructure like Kubernetes. But up till now, database systems haven't typically been a part of the serverless playbook. The assumption has been that developers will build their serverless app and choose a separate database system to connect to it — be it a traditional relational database, a NoSQL system, or even a Database-as-a-Service (DBaaS) solution. But the popularity of serverless has prompted further innovation in the data market. In this episode of The New Stack Analysts podcast, we talked about the latest developments in regards to managing data in a serverless system. My two guests were Evan Weaver, co-founder and chief technology officer of Fauna, and Greg McKeon, a product manager at Cloudflare. Fauna is building a “data API” for serverless apps so that developers don't even need to touch a database system, while Cloudflare runs a serverless platform called Cloudflare Workers.

In the serverless paradigm, the idea is to abstract away the backend so that developers don't need to deal with it. That's all well and good when it comes to servers and complex infrastructure like Kubernetes. But up till now, database systems haven't typically been a part of the serverless playbook. The assumption has been that developers will build their serverless app and choose a separate database system to connect to it — be it a traditional relational database, a NoSQL system, or even a Database-as-a-Service (DBaaS) solution. But the popularity of serverless has prompted further innovation in the data market. In this episode of The New Stack Analysts podcast, we talked about the latest developments in regards to managing data in a serverless system. My two guests were Evan Weaver, co-founder and chief technology officer of Fauna, and Greg McKeon, a product manager at Cloudflare. Fauna is building a “data API” for serverless apps so that developers don't even need to touch a database system, while Cloudflare runs a serverless platform called Cloudflare Workers.

For more stories about real-world use of serverless technologies, please follow us on Twitter as @RealWorldSls and subscribe to this podcast.Opening theme song:Cheery Monday by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/3495-cheery-mondayLicense: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0

In this episode of React Round Up, Glen Maddern joins us to talk about a new tool he’s been working on called Frontend Application Bundles, or FABs. We chat about how FABs allow you to write server-side logic in a vendor-agnostic way, as well as some of the other interesting problems FABs solve. Panel Paige Niedringhaus TJ VanToll Carl Mungazi Guest Glen Maddern Links Cloudflare Workers Frontend Application Bundles (FABs) NPM FAB Remix Picks Glen Maddern: The discovery of GIF animation Paige Niedringhaus: The Deno Handbook TJ VanToll: Fort Magic Carl Mungazi: Calibre Basic virtual-dom algorithm Matt-Esch virtual-dom Follow React Round Up on Twitter > @reactroundup  

In this episode of React Round Up, Glen Maddern joins us to talk about a new tool he’s been working on called Frontend Application Bundles, or FABs. We chat about how FABs allow you to write server-side logic in a vendor-agnostic way, as well as some of the other interesting problems FABs solve. Panel Paige Niedringhaus TJ VanToll Carl Mungazi Guest Glen Maddern Links Cloudflare Workers Frontend Application Bundles (FABs) NPM FAB Remix Picks Glen Maddern: The discovery of GIF animation Paige Niedringhaus: The Deno Handbook TJ VanToll: Fort Magic Carl Mungazi: Calibre Basic virtual-dom algorithm Matt-Esch virtual-dom Follow React Round Up on Twitter > @reactroundup  

Serverless architecture has become very popular over the last few years. In this episode we cover an introduction to this topic and talk about how Cloudflare Workers have implemented the serverless architecture. I share different ideas and thoughts on the ideology behind Cloudflare Workers and when they are most useful.

What differentiates server-side and client-side development, Tim Cook’s testimony in front of the US Congress, the new iMac, Rambo’s secret new project, and more on John’s not-so-secret use of SwiftUI to build games. Sponsored by iMazing: Get 30% off iMazing, the most popular all-purpose iPhone and iPad manager for Mac and PC. Download MP3 Hosts: Gui on Twitter: @_inside John on Twitter: @johnsundell Links Imagine Engine Rambo makes the Taptic Engine play music UIView’s point conversion API John’s SwiftUI layout guide The Talk Show episode about the recent Congress hearing The iMac updates Cloudflare Workers Subscribe: 🟣 Apple Podcasts 🟠 Overcast 🟢 Spotify

Team CodePen is dipping our toes into the pool of dynamically generating content using Cloudflare Workers. Alex and Marie are on to talk about what that means, and how we're using it to improve CodePen. The post #270: Dynamically Generated CDN Content appeared first on CodePen Blog.

Website attacks are very common.  They are often not personal, but they can create a mess for website operators.  As website owners and operators, we need website privacy and security especially if we are collecting data and personal information.   As I was making more money from my business in 2015,  the need for better performance became an issue.  I also needed to be able to keep my site up 24/7 and not have to deal with outages. My website started getting sustained 500-bit denial service attacks.  I realized very quickly that this was not my expertise, but that is when I began my partnership with Cloudflare.   Cloudflare provides services that increase the security performance of over 26 million internet properties around the world from individual blogs to governments to Fortune 500 companies.  Cloudflare offers services to accelerate internet applications and mobile experiences, mitigate DDoS attacks, prevent customer data breaches, stop malicious bot abuse, and more.   Our guests on today’s show are John Graham and Evan Johnson. John Graham is a British software engineer and the current CTO at Cloudflare. Evan is a Product Security Manager at Cloudflare.   We talk about attacks on websites, distributed denial of service attacks, and how to protect your own website.  If you want to keep your website up and running without skipping a beat, this is a must-listen episode.  Show Notes: [00:58] - Chris is a Cloudflare customer and shares how he became a Cloudflare customer. He shares his history of working with Cloudflare.     [03:05] - In 2015 Chris started getting sustained 500-bit denial services attacks. He realized it was not his expertise and he needed help with this.   [04:23] - John and Evan share the risks that Cloudflare helps website owners protect against.   [05:53] - What things should we worry about as website operators? [07:09] - Evan is recommending businesses move more of their applications to the edge with workers with Cloudflare Workers.  It has real security benefits.  [08:29] - The big benefit of Cloudflare Workers is that there is no back-end server to overwhelm.  It just moves the application to all of their servers.   [10:38] - Often hackers are using automated tools to scan websites, so you really want to limit the ability for that scanner to see something.  Then they will just move on.   [11:39] - Anyone that has a database should prepare for the contingency if you get your database breached. Know your legal obligations in dealing with that especially if you are storing personally identifiable information. [14:01] - With Cloudflare, you can identify a problem and have it blocked almost immediately.   [14:58] - It is really hard to patch your website fast enough.  So a WAF can give you some breathing room while you patch the back end systems.  Everyone should have a WAF, it is an extra layer that can really, really help. A WAF is a web application firewall.    [17:16] - If you are connected to the public internet and you provide a service or website Cloudflare can protect that. [18:13] - Use a good password and have two-factor identification.   [21:11] - Cloudflare Workers is super flexible and easy to write since you use Javascript.   [21:46] - John shares how Cloudflare is able to offer free DDos services to their users.   [23:12] - Cloudflare believes that your data is your data.  They analyze it for you to provide your analytics and to look for attacks but they don’t use your data.  [24:34] - Cloudflare is a way to get a level of protection for an inexpensive price.    [26:40] - With your back-end servers, you want to make sure you orange cloud things.  Cloudflare is seeing the requests and it is being proxied through their network.   [28:09] - With Cloudflare’s new project Magic Transit they can take over the IP space and become your network.  The traffic comes to Cloudflare so they can run the services they provide and then pass the good traffic back on to you.  [30:30] - Cloudflare tries to take things that are expensive and complex and make them easy to use and cheap so that everyone gets access to these cool tools.   [32:16] - People started to realize that they are using the internet for absolutely everything from banking to dating and it really matters that they protect that and use things that are trustworthy. [32:51] - If there is one password and two-factor you are going to use, put it on your personal email because if someone breaks into your personal email they can probably reset the password on every other service you use. Secure your email first.  Thanks for joining us on Easy Prey. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review.  Links and Resources: Podcast Web Page Facebook Page whatismyipaddress.com Easy Prey on Instagram Easy Prey on Twitter Easy Prey on LinkedIn Easy Prey on YouTube Easy Prey on Pinterest Cloudflare Cloudflare on Facebook Cloudflare on Twitter Cloudflare on LinkedIn Cloudflare on YouTube Cloudflare on Instagram

In today's episode, I talk about the JAMStack: why it's awesome, why it's not, and some resources to get started. Links Nicole Sullivan’s OOCSS: https://www.slideshare.net/stubbornella/object-oriented-css GitHub Pages: https://pages.github.com/ Netlify: https://www.netlify.com/ DigitalOcean: https://www.digitalocean.com/ ServerPilot: https://serverpilot.io/ My hosting setup: https://gomakethings.com/automating-the-deployment-of-your-static-site-with-hugo-and-github/ The GitHub desktop app: https://desktop.github.com/ Hugo: https://gohugo.io/ My Hugo starter project: https://github.com/cferdinandi/hugo-starter Jekyll: https://jekyllrb.com/ 11ty: https://www.11ty.dev/ Gatsby: https://www.gatsbyjs.org/ NetlifyCMS: https://www.netlifycms.org/ Forestry: https://forestry.io/ WordPress: https://wordpress.org/ The WP Content API: https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/ Creating a middleman API: https://gomakethings.com/keeping-credentials-secure-when-making-api-calls-with-javascript/ Headless WordPress: https://gomakethings.com/keeping-credentials-secure-when-making-api-calls-with-javascript/ Netlify Functions: https://docs.netlify.com/functions/overview/ Cloudflare Workers: https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-cloudflare-workers/ My cronjob setup: https://gomakethings.com/how-to-schedule-posts-with-a-static-website/ Hooks and triggers with Netlify: https://humanwhocodes.com/blog/2019/10/scheduling-jekyll-posts-netlify-github-actions/

Good Morning and Welcome to the ProactiveIT Cyber Security Daily number 82.  It is Monday March 16th 2020. I am your host Scott Gombar. Toilet Paper Anyone? This podcast is brought to you by Nwaj Tech, a Client Focused and Security Minded IT Consultant based in Central Connecticut.  You can visit us at nwajtech.com  Researchers Discover New PXJ Ransomware Strain Exploring Various Ways in Which Hackers Are Milking the COVID-19 Scare Hackers find new target as Americans work from home during outbreak Browser vendor leaks data via open server Litigation Case Claims Violation of CCPA Under Statutory Private Right of Action BlackWater, a malware that uses Cloudflare Workers for C2 Communication COVID-19 Testing Center Hit By Cyberattack US Govt Shares Tips on Securing VPNs Used by Remote Workers Slack Bug Allowed Automating Account Takeover Attacks The EARN IT Bill Is the Government’s Plan to Scan Every Message Online  

Stacktrace turns into the Accidental Web and Hardware Podcast, as John and Rambo go on a deep dive into search algorithms, server-less cloud functions, Raspberry Pi and Arduino hardware hacking. Also, what’s up with the iOS 13.1 beta being released before 13.0 is out? Hosts: Gui on Twitter: @_inside John on Twitter: @johnsundell Links Swift by Sundell’s new search feature Cloudflare Workers Homebridge Raspberry Pi Arduino Rust Rambo’s Apple beta API TextMate BBEdit Reveal Sketch Transmit NetNewsWire Forecast iA Writer Ulysses AirBuddy iTerm DaisyDisk

Check out the full list of articles at https://www.digitaleer.com/seo-this-week/episode-110/ Welcome to Episode 110 of SEO This Week! This week we are taking a look a case study on the education site market and what can be learned on how to rank them. We are diving a bit deeper into technical SEO using Cloudflare Workers. We are checking out a new (at least the first I've seen it) feature in YouTube to increase engagement. And we are looking at some changes in how Google is showing your offers. We are also being joined by Bill Hartzer for a discussion about expired domains, how to find them, and what to do with them. All this and more on SEO This Week Episode 110!

In this episode Dan picks Matt's brain on "Serverless" and what is in a name - what does Serverless really mean? And where are all the servers? In this wide-ranging talk we discuss which workloads suit Serverless technologies, common programming languages and frameworks including the new Azure Functions Runtime 2.0, and the radidly expanding range of services that fall into the serverless category: Azure Functions, Open FaaS (Functions as a Service), Serverless Databases (!) and global platform services that present as "serverless" including Cosmos DB, Azure Event Grid, Event Hubs and more! Show links: Azure Architecture Centre Create serverless applications (learning path) on Microsoft/Learn An introduction to Azure Functions What are Durable Functions? Serverless to the Max: Doing Big Things for Small Dollars with Cloudflare Workers and Azure Functions (TroyHunt.com) Azure Cosmos DB Azure Lunchtime Meetup Microsoft NZ Partner Hub Azure Lunch is a regular podcast of news and views from Microsoft Azure with a Kiwi slant. This episode is sponsored by the Azure Architecture Center. For the best advice on Architecture styles, Technology choices and Design principles for the cloud, including the five pillars of Software quality, checkout the Azure Application Architecture Guide at aka.ms/architecture. Thanks to SilverWHK for the use of his music in our podcast: https://silverwhk.bandcamp.com Daniel Larsen and Matt Simpson are employees of Microsoft. The opinions expressed in this podcast are their own and not an official company statement.

Marketing Scoop Episode 2.13 is the first episode of 2019, looking at SEO, and specifically SEO testing – looking into what SEO split-testing is, specific examples of what you should be testing and how SEO testing interplays with CRO.  Subscribe to the podcast here: https://www.semrush.com/podcast/ In this show we have 2 guests joining our regular hosts David & Judith… Founder and CEO of Distilled, Will Critchlow is an entrepreneur with experience in founding and growing an agency business, marketing and designing conferences, building web apps and running a marketing team. He’s been at the top of the SEO industry for over a decade. Speaker, Trainer & Director Organic Search at Peak Ace AG, Bastian Grimm is an International SEO consultant. Bastian’s areas of focus include the conception and implementation of SEO strategies, the development and expansion of SEO teams, and the development of international link building strategies and link risk management. Plus, a special appearance from StrategiQ's Chris Green. Here's what we chat about in this episode: 2:00 What are some of the top things that an SEO should be testing this year? 4:45 Is Will also looking at what happens after the user arrives on the site? 7:55 Is there any area of SEO that could be tested without thinking about CRO or are the 2 areas too interlinked? 9:00 What are the key metrics that we need to be testing for SEO and which metrics apply to both CRO and SEO testing? 12:00 Is it true that you only focus on ranking as a debug method of testing or is rank tracking still important as a KPI? 13:15 Is it possible just to focus on improving your UX and improve your SEO as a result of it? 16.15 Bastian Grimm’s thoughts on SEO testing and what’s working at the moment 20:40 What are the biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to SEO testing? 22:10 Chris Green’s thoughts on SEO testing and what’s working at the moment 25:05 Chris Green introduces "Spark" - a Meta CMS for SEO Teams, powered by Cloudflare Workers 29:10 Will’s thoughts on what Chris Green shared 31:20 Bastian’s thoughts on what Chris Green shared 33:30 Will’s actionable tip 35:00 Bastian’s actionable tip 36:35 Chris’ actionable tip 38:00 Judith’s final thoughts

In this episode Daniel Larsen, Senior Technical Evangelist at Microsoft, talks to Ben Chartrand a Platform Development lead at Timely about Azure Functions v2, Cloudflare Workers and his favourite Cloud architecture patterns for economy and scale. Show links: Microsoft NZ Partner Hub Download the Cloud Practice Playbooks Azure Functions Cloudflare workers Download the Cloud Application Architecture Guide Azure Lunch is a regular podcast of news and views from Microsoft Azure with a Kiwi slant. This episode is sponsored by the Microsoft NZ Partner Hub. If you're building software or providing services related to Microsoft products then you should check out the Partner hub for training, advice and a heap of resources including the Partner Practice Playbooks - https://aka.ms/nzpartnerhub Thanks to SilverWHK for the use of his music in our podcast: https://silverwhk.bandcamp.com Daniel Larsen is an employee of Microsoft. The opinions expressed in this podcast are his own and not an official company statement.

In episode 31 of JAMstack Radio, Brian meets with Kenton Varda, tech lead for Cloudflare Workers and author of Sandstorm.io to discuss some of the infinite uses for running code at the edge.

In episode 31 of JAMstack Radio, Brian meets with Kenton Varda, tech lead for Cloudflare Workers and author of Sandstorm.io to discuss some of the infinite uses for running code at the edge. The post Ep. #31, Originless code with Cloudflare’s Kenton Varda appeared first on Heavybit.

HTTPS-Naysayers, Anti-Vaxxers and Flat-Earthers; New Pluralsight GDPR Course; Azure Functions and Cloudflare Workers; Sponsored by Terbium Labs https://www.troyhunt.com/weekly-update-96/

Panel: Gui Rambo Erica Sadun Special Guest: Marin Todorov In today's episode, the iPheaks panelist Erica and Gui talk about backups. Why are backups important, how to maintain up-to-date local and off-site backups and backup service suggestions. Gui and Erica share examples and horror stories of neglecting to backup data. This is a great episode to learn about when, why and how to backup your devices and computers to cloud services, and best practice for categorizing your personal and business data for backup. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: Paranoid back up Not everything can get synced up to GitHub Email,  personal materials, etc. Horror stories Personal catastrophe Losing a business Where does your data live? Personal and financial cost What are not backups -  Dropbox, cloud, etc DropBox is only one component of a backup Cloud storage components Having a mix of cloud, and localized backs, and introducing redundancy Natural disasters and thief Offsite Github backup Git Repo Privacy, private repo, etc. Bit Bucket -  similar to GitHub Source Forge Amazon web service AWS Glacier AWS S3 ARQ Back Blaze Back Blaze B2 Time Machine alone is not efficient Bootable backups Carbon Copy Cloner Scheduler for backups Time Machine fail And much much more! Links: https://github.com/github/backup-utils https://github.com https://bitbucket.org Amazon web service AWS S3 ARQ Back Blaze Back Blaze B2 Picks: Gui CloudFlare Workers Erica NOTI

Panel: Gui Rambo Erica Sadun Special Guest: Marin Todorov In today's episode, the iPheaks panelist Erica and Gui talk about backups. Why are backups important, how to maintain up-to-date local and off-site backups and backup service suggestions. Gui and Erica share examples and horror stories of neglecting to backup data. This is a great episode to learn about when, why and how to backup your devices and computers to cloud services, and best practice for categorizing your personal and business data for backup. In particular, we dive pretty deep on: Paranoid back up Not everything can get synced up to GitHub Email,  personal materials, etc. Horror stories Personal catastrophe Losing a business Where does your data live? Personal and financial cost What are not backups -  Dropbox, cloud, etc DropBox is only one component of a backup Cloud storage components Having a mix of cloud, and localized backs, and introducing redundancy Natural disasters and thief Offsite Github backup Git Repo Privacy, private repo, etc. Bit Bucket -  similar to GitHub Source Forge Amazon web service AWS Glacier AWS S3 ARQ Back Blaze Back Blaze B2 Time Machine alone is not efficient Bootable backups Carbon Copy Cloner Scheduler for backups Time Machine fail And much much more! Links: https://github.com/github/backup-utils https://github.com https://bitbucket.org Amazon web service AWS S3 ARQ Back Blaze Back Blaze B2 Picks: Gui CloudFlare Workers Erica NOTI