Podcast appearances and mentions of John Franco

Jerry starts with the sounds of the Knicks beating the Celtics. Knicks fans shut down seventh avenue and even the FDNY got involved turning on the sirens. After the game, Jalen Brunson said there's nothing to celebrate yet. Gio and Jerry know the series is over but Boomer isn't saying that just yet. Gio thinks John Franco is training Matt Harvey to go to every single sporting event in NY.

The Knicks head to Boston for Game 5 without injured Tatum. Caller questions Wally Szczerbiak's potential Botox use. Jerry's update includes Knicks-Celtics sounds; Knicks fans celebrated on Seventh Avenue. Brunson says there's "nothing to celebrate yet," but Gio and Jerry believe the series is over, though Boomer isn't declaring it. Gio jokes about John Franco training Matt Harvey to attend NY sports events. The T-Wolves are up 3-1 on the Warriors. The Yankees beat the Mariners (Volpe HR), but Cabrera suffered a serious ankle injury. The Mets beat the Pirates on Alonso's sac fly; Peterson praised the crowds. NFL announced primetime games; Boomer says Giants have toughest schedule, Jets easiest.

Hour 1 Knicks up 3-1 on Celtics after Tatum's apparent Achilles injury. Pacers nearing a win over the Cavs. Gio declares the Knicks-Celtics series over. Jerry's update includes Knicks-Celtics sounds and Thibs' post-game comments, as well as Tatum's injury sound. T-Wolves lead Warriors 3-1. The Mavericks won the NBA draft lottery. The Yankees' Cabrera injured his ankle. Boomer noted Dave Sims sounded rested. The Mets beat the Pirates on Alonso's sac fly. Pablo Torre questions how Daily Mail got Belichick's Ring cam footage and expresses family concern. Boomer wants Ewing in a suite. Caller disagrees with Gio's "series over" declaration. Hour 2 The Knicks head to Boston for Game 5 without injured Tatum. Caller questions Wally Szczerbiak's potential Botox use. Jerry's update includes Knicks-Celtics sounds; Knicks fans celebrated on Seventh Avenue. Brunson says there's "nothing to celebrate yet," but Gio and Jerry believe the series is over, though Boomer isn't declaring it. Gio jokes about John Franco training Matt Harvey to attend NY sports events. The T-Wolves are up 3-1 on the Warriors. The Yankees beat the Mariners (Volpe HR), but Cabrera suffered a serious ankle injury. The Mets beat the Pirates on Alonso's sac fly; Peterson praised the crowds. NFL announced primetime games; Boomer says Giants have toughest schedule, Jets easiest. Hour 3 Despite being underdogs, the Knicks are one win away from beating the Celtics, who are now without the injured Tatum. The Pacers are also on the verge of eliminating the Cavaliers. The Porzingis injury is also impacting Boston. Jerry's update includes Bill Simmons doubting Brunson's scoring. T-Wolves lead Warriors 3-1. Yankees beat Mariners (Grisham hit 2 HRs); Cabrera's ankle injury update. Kiner-Falefa met Ralph Kiner's son (they're related) and then homered. The show discussed celebrities at Knicks games, questioning if Fat Joe was present due to his perceived bad luck; a caller confirmed he wasn't. There's evidence suggesting Fat Joe brings bad luck to NY teams. Hour 4 The NFL is releasing scheduled games, including the Jets vs. Broncos in London (Oct 12) and the Vikings playing consecutive international games in Dublin and London. The show discussed these announcements, the "Fat Joe curse" (Boomer urged self-awareness), and early NYC speeding before congestion pricing. Jerry's update covered Jalen Brunson's bounceback, the T-Wolves leading the Warriors 3-1, Oswaldo Cabrera's ankle injury, and the Mets' win over the Pirates. They also discussed Isiah Kiner-Falefa's connection to Ralph Kiner (hearing from Ralph's son) and Dave Sims' "Penis!" Moment of the Day. Finally, they talked about the Mavericks winning the NBA lottery (likely for Cooper Flagg) and Al & Jerry's bet on Bill Belichick coaching at UNC.

Join Jay Horwitz as he sits down with beloved Mets figure Tony Carullo for a heartwarming, hilarious, and history-packed episode of Amazing Conversations. With over 50 years of service, Tony has seen it all — from clubhouse pranks to World Series wins, iconic players, unforgettable moments, and now... a clubhouse named in his honor. Tony shares stories from his early days as a ball boy in 1969, the evolution of the game, what it was like behind the scenes during the 1986 World Series, and his bond with legends like Chipper Jones, David Wright, Terry Collins, John Franco, and more. #Mets #NewYorkMets #TonyCarullo #JayHorwitz #MetsPodcast #MLB #BaseballHistory #DavidWright #ChipperJones #TerryCollins #JohnFranco #MetsClubhouse #BaseballLegends #MetsHallOfFame #MLBPodcast #MetsNation #MetsFans 

Best on-air interviews of the week from Boomer and Gio, BT and Sal, and Evan and Tiki. Highlights included St. John's head coach Rick Pitino talking "Red Storm Rising," John Franco in studio talking all things Mets, CP The Fanchise previewing the second half of the season for the Knicks, and Carlos Mendoza talking all things Mets with Evan and Tiki.

Best on-air interviews of the week from Boomer and Gio, BT and Sal, and Evan and Tiki. Highlights included St. John's head coach Rick Pitino talking "Red Storm Rising," John Franco in studio talking all things Mets, CP The Fanchise previewing the second half of the season for the Knicks, and Carlos Mendoza talking all things Mets with Evan and Tiki.

Best on-air interviews of the week from Boomer and Gio, BT and Sal, and Evan and Tiki. Highlights included St. John's head coach Rick Pitino talking "Red Storm Rising," John Franco in studio talking all things Mets, CP The Fanchise previewing the second half of the season for the Knicks, and Carlos Mendoza talking all things Mets with Evan and Tiki.

Hour 4: BT and Sal are joined live in-studio by Mets great, John Franco.

DBAT- Most important job of a pitcher? Throwing staright Change Up before breaking pitch The Ozzie drill HOF rundown- why know John Franco or Curt Schilling or Andrew Jones

On this special edition of Amazin' Conversations, host Jay Horwitz sits down with Ed Kull, Athletic Director of St. John's University, to talk about the Red Storm's rise, the impact of Hall of Fame coach Rick Pitino, and the changing landscape of college athletics. Plus, Ed shares his Mets connections, memories of legendary coach Lou Carnesecca, and stories about John Franco, Joe Panik, and Felipe Lopez.

John Franco recorded 424 saves in his 21 year MLB career, the most of any left-handed relief pitcher. He is currently 7th all-time in career saves and 3rd in games played for a pitcher, but at the time of his retirement he was 2nd in both categories. Is this enough to earn John Franco a ticket to Cooperstown?

The Millenium Mets reunite at Amazin Day to talk about competing in the playoffs, going to Japan, the time Benny forgot how many outs there were, Piazza's 9/11 home run, Franco vs Bonds and all the other stories any Mets fan would want to hear. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

BT & Sal run through John Franco's numbers.

Applications for the 2025 AI Engineer Summit are up, and you can save the date for AIE Singapore in April and AIE World's Fair 2025 in June.Happy new year, and thanks for 100 great episodes! Please let us know what you want to see/hear for the next 100!Full YouTube Episode with Slides/ChartsLike and subscribe and hit that bell to get notifs!Timestamps* 00:00 Welcome to the 100th Episode!* 00:19 Reflecting on the Journey* 00:47 AI Engineering: The Rise and Impact* 03:15 Latent Space Live and AI Conferences* 09:44 The Competitive AI Landscape* 21:45 Synthetic Data and Future Trends* 35:53 Creative Writing with AI* 36:12 Legal and Ethical Issues in AI* 38:18 The Data War: GPU Poor vs. GPU Rich* 39:12 The Rise of GPU Ultra Rich* 40:47 Emerging Trends in AI Models* 45:31 The Multi-Modality War* 01:05:31 The Future of AI Benchmarks* 01:13:17 Pionote and Frontier Models* 01:13:47 Niche Models and Base Models* 01:14:30 State Space Models and RWKB* 01:15:48 Inference Race and Price Wars* 01:22:16 Major AI Themes of the Year* 01:22:48 AI Rewind: January to March* 01:26:42 AI Rewind: April to June* 01:33:12 AI Rewind: July to September* 01:34:59 AI Rewind: October to December* 01:39:53 Year-End Reflections and PredictionsTranscript[00:00:00] Welcome to the 100th Episode![00:00:00] Alessio: Hey everyone, welcome to the Latent Space Podcast. This is Alessio, partner and CTO at Decibel Partners, and I'm joined by my co host Swyx for the 100th time today.[00:00:12] swyx: Yay, um, and we're so glad that, yeah, you know, everyone has, uh, followed us in this journey. How do you feel about it? 100 episodes.[00:00:19] Alessio: Yeah, I know.[00:00:19] Reflecting on the Journey[00:00:19] Alessio: Almost two years that we've been doing this. We've had four different studios. Uh, we've had a lot of changes. You know, we used to do this lightning round. When we first started that we didn't like, and we tried to change the question. The answer[00:00:32] swyx: was cursor and perplexity.[00:00:34] Alessio: Yeah, I love mid journey. It's like, do you really not like anything else?[00:00:38] Alessio: Like what's, what's the unique thing? And I think, yeah, we, we've also had a lot more research driven content. You know, we had like 3DAO, we had, you know. Jeremy Howard, we had more folks like that.[00:00:47] AI Engineering: The Rise and Impact[00:00:47] Alessio: I think we want to do more of that too in the new year, like having, uh, some of the Gemini folks, both on the research and the applied side.[00:00:54] Alessio: Yeah, but it's been a ton of fun. I think we both started, I wouldn't say as a joke, we were kind of like, Oh, we [00:01:00] should do a podcast. And I think we kind of caught the right wave, obviously. And I think your rise of the AI engineer posts just kind of get people. Sombra to congregate, and then the AI engineer summit.[00:01:11] Alessio: And that's why when I look at our growth chart, it's kind of like a proxy for like the AI engineering industry as a whole, which is almost like, like, even if we don't do that much, we keep growing just because there's so many more AI engineers. So did you expect that growth or did you expect that would take longer for like the AI engineer thing to kind of like become, you know, everybody talks about it today.[00:01:32] swyx: So, the sign of that, that we have won is that Gartner puts it at the top of the hype curve right now. So Gartner has called the peak in AI engineering. I did not expect, um, to what level. I knew that I was correct when I called it because I did like two months of work going into that. But I didn't know, You know, how quickly it could happen, and obviously there's a chance that I could be wrong.[00:01:52] swyx: But I think, like, most people have come around to that concept. Hacker News hates it, which is a good sign. But there's enough people that have defined it, you know, GitHub, when [00:02:00] they launched GitHub Models, which is the Hugging Face clone, they put AI engineers in the banner, like, above the fold, like, in big So I think it's like kind of arrived as a meaningful and useful definition.[00:02:12] swyx: I think people are trying to figure out where the boundaries are. I think that was a lot of the quote unquote drama that happens behind the scenes at the World's Fair in June. Because I think there's a lot of doubt or questions about where ML engineering stops and AI engineering starts. That's a useful debate to be had.[00:02:29] swyx: In some sense, I actually anticipated that as well. So I intentionally did not. Put a firm definition there because most of the successful definitions are necessarily underspecified and it's actually useful to have different perspectives and you don't have to specify everything from the outset.[00:02:45] Alessio: Yeah, I was at um, AWS reInvent and the line to get into like the AI engineering talk, so to speak, which is, you know, applied AI and whatnot was like, there are like hundreds of people just in line to go in.[00:02:56] Alessio: I think that's kind of what enabled me. People, right? Which is what [00:03:00] you kind of talked about. It's like, Hey, look, you don't actually need a PhD, just, yeah, just use the model. And then maybe we'll talk about some of the blind spots that you get as an engineer with the earlier posts that we also had on on the sub stack.[00:03:11] Alessio: But yeah, it's been a heck of a heck of a two years.[00:03:14] swyx: Yeah.[00:03:15] Latent Space Live and AI Conferences[00:03:15] swyx: You know, I was, I was trying to view the conference as like, so NeurIPS is I think like 16, 17, 000 people. And the Latent Space Live event that we held there was 950 signups. I think. The AI world, the ML world is still very much research heavy. And that's as it should be because ML is very much in a research phase.[00:03:34] swyx: But as we move this entire field into production, I think that ratio inverts into becoming more engineering heavy. So at least I think engineering should be on the same level, even if it's never as prestigious, like it'll always be low status because at the end of the day, you're manipulating APIs or whatever.[00:03:51] swyx: But Yeah, wrapping GPTs, but there's going to be an increasing stack and an art to doing these, these things well. And I, you know, I [00:04:00] think that's what we're focusing on for the podcast, the conference and basically everything I do seems to make sense. And I think we'll, we'll talk about the trends here that apply.[00:04:09] swyx: It's, it's just very strange. So, like, there's a mix of, like, keeping on top of research while not being a researcher and then putting that research into production. So, like, people always ask me, like, why are you covering Neuralibs? Like, this is a ML research conference and I'm like, well, yeah, I mean, we're not going to, to like, understand everything Or reproduce every single paper, but the stuff that is being found here is going to make it through into production at some point, you hope.[00:04:32] swyx: And then actually like when I talk to the researchers, they actually get very excited because they're like, oh, you guys are actually caring about how this goes into production and that's what they really really want. The measure of success is previously just peer review, right? Getting 7s and 8s on their um, Academic review conferences and stuff like citations is one metric, but money is a better metric.[00:04:51] Alessio: Money is a better metric. Yeah, and there were about 2200 people on the live stream or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Hundred on the live stream. So [00:05:00] I try my best to moderate, but it was a lot spicier in person with Jonathan and, and Dylan. Yeah, that it was in the chat on YouTube.[00:05:06] swyx: I would say that I actually also created.[00:05:09] swyx: Layen Space Live in order to address flaws that are perceived in academic conferences. This is not NeurIPS specific, it's ICML, NeurIPS. Basically, it's very sort of oriented towards the PhD student, uh, market, job market, right? Like literally all, basically everyone's there to advertise their research and skills and get jobs.[00:05:28] swyx: And then obviously all the, the companies go there to hire them. And I think that's great for the individual researchers, but for people going there to get info is not great because you have to read between the lines, bring a ton of context in order to understand every single paper. So what is missing is effectively what I ended up doing, which is domain by domain, go through and recap the best of the year.[00:05:48] swyx: Survey the field. And there are, like NeurIPS had a, uh, I think ICML had a like a position paper track, NeurIPS added a benchmarks, uh, datasets track. These are ways in which to address that [00:06:00] issue. Uh, there's always workshops as well. Every, every conference has, you know, a last day of workshops and stuff that provide more of an overview.[00:06:06] swyx: But they're not specifically prompted to do so. And I think really, uh, Organizing a conference is just about getting good speakers and giving them the correct prompts. And then they will just go and do that thing and they do a very good job of it. So I think Sarah did a fantastic job with the startups prompt.[00:06:21] swyx: I can't list everybody, but we did best of 2024 in startups, vision, open models. Post transformers, synthetic data, small models, and agents. And then the last one was the, uh, and then we also did a quick one on reasoning with Nathan Lambert. And then the last one, obviously, was the debate that people were very hyped about.[00:06:39] swyx: It was very awkward. And I'm really, really thankful for John Franco, basically, who stepped up to challenge Dylan. Because Dylan was like, yeah, I'll do it. But He was pro scaling. And I think everyone who is like in AI is pro scaling, right? So you need somebody who's ready to publicly say, no, we've hit a wall.[00:06:57] swyx: So that means you're saying Sam Altman's wrong. [00:07:00] You're saying, um, you know, everyone else is wrong. It helps that this was the day before Ilya went on, went up on stage and then said pre training has hit a wall. And data has hit a wall. So actually Jonathan ended up winning, and then Ilya supported that statement, and then Noam Brown on the last day further supported that statement as well.[00:07:17] swyx: So it's kind of interesting that I think the consensus kind of going in was that we're not done scaling, like you should believe in a better lesson. And then, four straight days in a row, you had Sepp Hochreiter, who is the creator of the LSTM, along with everyone's favorite OG in AI, which is Juergen Schmidhuber.[00:07:34] swyx: He said that, um, we're pre trading inside a wall, or like, we've run into a different kind of wall. And then we have, you know John Frankel, Ilya, and then Noam Brown are all saying variations of the same thing, that we have hit some kind of wall in the status quo of what pre trained, scaling large pre trained models has looked like, and we need a new thing.[00:07:54] swyx: And obviously the new thing for people is some make, either people are calling it inference time compute or test time [00:08:00] compute. I think the collective terminology has been inference time, and I think that makes sense because test time, calling it test, meaning, has a very pre trained bias, meaning that the only reason for running inference at all is to test your model.[00:08:11] swyx: That is not true. Right. Yeah. So, so, I quite agree that. OpenAI seems to have adopted, or the community seems to have adopted this terminology of ITC instead of TTC. And that, that makes a lot of sense because like now we care about inference, even right down to compute optimality. Like I actually interviewed this author who recovered or reviewed the Chinchilla paper.[00:08:31] swyx: Chinchilla paper is compute optimal training, but what is not stated in there is it's pre trained compute optimal training. And once you start caring about inference, compute optimal training, you have a different scaling law. And in a way that we did not know last year.[00:08:45] Alessio: I wonder, because John is, he's also on the side of attention is all you need.[00:08:49] Alessio: Like he had the bet with Sasha. So I'm curious, like he doesn't believe in scaling, but he thinks the transformer, I wonder if he's still. So, so,[00:08:56] swyx: so he, obviously everything is nuanced and you know, I told him to play a character [00:09:00] for this debate, right? So he actually does. Yeah. He still, he still believes that we can scale more.[00:09:04] swyx: Uh, he just assumed the character to be very game for, for playing this debate. So even more kudos to him that he assumed a position that he didn't believe in and still won the debate.[00:09:16] Alessio: Get rekt, Dylan. Um, do you just want to quickly run through some of these things? Like, uh, Sarah's presentation, just the highlights.[00:09:24] swyx: Yeah, we can't go through everyone's slides, but I pulled out some things as a factor of, like, stuff that we were going to talk about. And we'll[00:09:30] Alessio: publish[00:09:31] swyx: the rest. Yeah, we'll publish on this feed the best of 2024 in those domains. And hopefully people can benefit from the work that our speakers have done.[00:09:39] swyx: But I think it's, uh, these are just good slides. And I've been, I've been looking for a sort of end of year recaps from, from people.[00:09:44] The Competitive AI Landscape[00:09:44] swyx: The field has progressed a lot. You know, I think the max ELO in 2023 on LMSys used to be 1200 for LMSys ELOs. And now everyone is at least at, uh, 1275 in their ELOs, and this is across Gemini, Chadjibuti, [00:10:00] Grok, O1.[00:10:01] swyx: ai, which with their E Large model, and Enthopic, of course. It's a very, very competitive race. There are multiple Frontier labs all racing, but there is a clear tier zero Frontier. And then there's like a tier one. It's like, I wish I had everything else. Tier zero is extremely competitive. It's effectively now three horse race between Gemini, uh, Anthropic and OpenAI.[00:10:21] swyx: I would say that people are still holding out a candle for XAI. XAI, I think, for some reason, because their API was very slow to roll out, is not included in these metrics. So it's actually quite hard to put on there. As someone who also does charts, XAI is continually snubbed because they don't work well with the benchmarking people.[00:10:42] swyx: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a little trivia for why XAI always gets ignored. The other thing is market share. So these are slides from Sarah. We have it up on the screen. It has gone from very heavily open AI. So we have some numbers and estimates. These are from RAMP. Estimates of open AI market share in [00:11:00] December 2023.[00:11:01] swyx: And this is basically, what is it, GPT being 95 percent of production traffic. And I think if you correlate that with stuff that we asked. Harrison Chase on the LangChain episode, it was true. And then CLAUD 3 launched mid middle of this year. I think CLAUD 3 launched in March, CLAUD 3. 5 Sonnet was in June ish.[00:11:23] swyx: And you can start seeing the market share shift towards opening, uh, towards that topic, uh, very, very aggressively. The more recent one is Gemini. So if I scroll down a little bit, this is an even more recent dataset. So RAM's dataset ends in September 2 2. 2024. Gemini has basically launched a price war at the low end, uh, with Gemini Flash, uh, being basically free for personal use.[00:11:44] swyx: Like, I think people don't understand the free tier. It's something like a billion tokens per day. Unless you're trying to abuse it, you cannot really exhaust your free tier on Gemini. They're really trying to get you to use it. They know they're in like third place, um, fourth place, depending how you, how you count.[00:11:58] swyx: And so they're going after [00:12:00] the Lower tier first, and then, you know, maybe the upper tier later, but yeah, Gemini Flash, according to OpenRouter, is now 50 percent of their OpenRouter requests. Obviously, these are the small requests. These are small, cheap requests that are mathematically going to be more.[00:12:15] swyx: The smart ones obviously are still going to OpenAI. But, you know, it's a very, very big shift in the market. Like basically 2023, 2022, To going into 2024 opening has gone from nine five market share to Yeah. Reasonably somewhere between 50 to 75 market share.[00:12:29] Alessio: Yeah. I'm really curious how ramped does the attribution to the model?[00:12:32] Alessio: If it's API, because I think it's all credit card spin. . Well, but it's all, the credit card doesn't say maybe. Maybe the, maybe when they do expenses, they upload the PDF, but yeah, the, the German I think makes sense. I think that was one of my main 2024 takeaways that like. The best small model companies are the large labs, which is not something I would have thought that the open source kind of like long tail would be like the small model.[00:12:53] swyx: Yeah, different sizes of small models we're talking about here, right? Like so small model here for Gemini is AB, [00:13:00] right? Uh, mini. We don't know what the small model size is, but yeah, it's probably in the double digits or maybe single digits, but probably double digits. The open source community has kind of focused on the one to three B size.[00:13:11] swyx: Mm-hmm . Yeah. Maybe[00:13:12] swyx: zero, maybe 0.5 B uh, that's moon dream and that is small for you then, then that's great. It makes sense that we, we have a range for small now, which is like, may, maybe one to five B. Yeah. I'll even put that at, at, at the high end. And so this includes Gemma from Gemini as well. But also includes the Apple Foundation models, which I think Apple Foundation is 3B.[00:13:32] Alessio: Yeah. No, that's great. I mean, I think in the start small just meant cheap. I think today small is actually a more nuanced discussion, you know, that people weren't really having before.[00:13:43] swyx: Yeah, we can keep going. This is a slide that I smiley disagree with Sarah. She's pointing to the scale SEAL leaderboard. I think the Researchers that I talked with at NeurIPS were kind of positive on this because basically you need private test [00:14:00] sets to prevent contamination.[00:14:02] swyx: And Scale is one of maybe three or four people this year that has really made an effort in doing a credible private test set leaderboard. Llama405B does well compared to Gemini and GPT 40. And I think that's good. I would say that. You know, it's good to have an open model that is that big, that does well on those metrics.[00:14:23] swyx: But anyone putting 405B in production will tell you, if you scroll down a little bit to the artificial analysis numbers, that it is very slow and very expensive to infer. Um, it doesn't even fit on like one node. of, uh, of H100s. Cerebras will be happy to tell you they can serve 4 or 5B on their super large chips.[00:14:42] swyx: But, um, you know, if you need to do anything custom to it, you're still kind of constrained. So, is 4 or 5B really that relevant? Like, I think most people are basically saying that they only use 4 or 5B as a teacher model to distill down to something. Even Meta is doing it. So with Lama 3. [00:15:00] 3 launched, they only launched the 70B because they use 4 or 5B to distill the 70B.[00:15:03] swyx: So I don't know if like open source is keeping up. I think they're the, the open source industrial complex is very invested in telling you that the, if the gap is narrowing, I kind of disagree. I think that the gap is widening with O1. I think there are very, very smart people trying to narrow that gap and they should.[00:15:22] swyx: I really wish them success, but you cannot use a chart that is nearing 100 in your saturation chart. And look, the distance between open source and closed source is narrowing. Of course it's going to narrow because you're near 100. This is stupid. But in metrics that matter, is open source narrowing?[00:15:38] swyx: Probably not for O1 for a while. And it's really up to the open source guys to figure out if they can match O1 or not.[00:15:46] Alessio: I think inference time compute is bad for open source just because, you know, Doc can donate the flops at training time, but he cannot donate the flops at inference time. So it's really hard to like actually keep up on that axis.[00:15:59] Alessio: Big, big business [00:16:00] model shift. So I don't know what that means for the GPU clouds. I don't know what that means for the hyperscalers, but obviously the big labs have a lot of advantage. Because, like, it's not a static artifact that you're putting the compute in. You're kind of doing that still, but then you're putting a lot of computed inference too.[00:16:17] swyx: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I mean, Llama4 will be reasoning oriented. We talked with Thomas Shalom. Um, kudos for getting that episode together. That was really nice. Good, well timed. Actually, I connected with the AI meta guy, uh, at NeurIPS, and, um, yeah, we're going to coordinate something for Llama4. Yeah, yeah,[00:16:32] Alessio: and our friend, yeah.[00:16:33] Alessio: Clara Shi just joined to lead the business agent side. So I'm sure we'll have her on in the new year.[00:16:39] swyx: Yeah. So, um, my comment on, on the business model shift, this is super interesting. Apparently it is wide knowledge that OpenAI wanted more than 6. 6 billion dollars for their fundraise. They wanted to raise, you know, higher, and they did not.[00:16:51] swyx: And what that means is basically like, it's very convenient that we're not getting GPT 5, which would have been a larger pre train. We should have a lot of upfront money. And [00:17:00] instead we're, we're converting fixed costs into variable costs, right. And passing it on effectively to the customer. And it's so much easier to take margin there because you can directly attribute it to like, Oh, you're using this more.[00:17:12] swyx: Therefore you, you pay more of the cost and I'll just slap a margin in there. So like that lets you control your growth margin and like tie your. Your spend, or your sort of inference spend, accordingly. And it's just really interesting to, that this change in the sort of inference paradigm has arrived exactly at the same time that the funding environment for pre training is effectively drying up, kind of.[00:17:36] swyx: I feel like maybe the VCs are very in tune with research anyway, so like, they would have noticed this, but, um, it's just interesting.[00:17:43] Alessio: Yeah, and I was looking back at our yearly recap of last year. Yeah. And the big thing was like the mixed trial price fights, you know, and I think now it's almost like there's nowhere to go, like, you know, Gemini Flash is like basically giving it away for free.[00:17:55] Alessio: So I think this is a good way for the labs to generate more revenue and pass down [00:18:00] some of the compute to the customer. I think they're going to[00:18:02] swyx: keep going. I think that 2, will come.[00:18:05] Alessio: Yeah, I know. Totally. I mean, next year, the first thing I'm doing is signing up for Devin. Signing up for the pro chat GBT.[00:18:12] Alessio: Just to try. I just want to see what does it look like to spend a thousand dollars a month on AI?[00:18:17] swyx: Yes. Yes. I think if your, if your, your job is a, at least AI content creator or VC or, you know, someone who, whose job it is to stay on, stay on top of things, you should already be spending like a thousand dollars a month on, on stuff.[00:18:28] swyx: And then obviously easy to spend, hard to use. You have to actually use. The good thing is that actually Google lets you do a lot of stuff for free now. So like deep research. That they just launched. Uses a ton of inference and it's, it's free while it's in preview.[00:18:45] Alessio: Yeah. They need to put that in Lindy.[00:18:47] Alessio: I've been using Lindy lately. I've been a built a bunch of things once we had flow because I liked the new thing. It's pretty good. I even did a phone call assistant. Um, yeah, they just launched Lindy voice. Yeah, I think once [00:19:00] they get advanced voice mode like capability today, still like speech to text, you can kind of tell.[00:19:06] Alessio: Um, but it's good for like reservations and things like that. So I have a meeting prepper thing. And so[00:19:13] swyx: it's good. Okay. I feel like we've, we've covered a lot of stuff. Uh, I, yeah, I, you know, I think We will go over the individual, uh, talks in a separate episode. Uh, I don't want to take too much time with, uh, this stuff, but that suffice to say that there is a lot of progress in each field.[00:19:28] swyx: Uh, we covered vision. Basically this is all like the audience voting for what they wanted. And then I just invited the best people I could find in each audience, especially agents. Um, Graham, who I talked to at ICML in Vienna, he is currently still number one. It's very hard to stay on top of SweetBench.[00:19:45] swyx: OpenHand is currently still number one. switchbench full, which is the hardest one. He had very good thoughts on agents, which I, which I'll highlight for people. Everyone is saying 2025 is the year of agents, just like they said last year. And, uh, but he had [00:20:00] thoughts on like eight parts of what are the frontier problems to solve in agents.[00:20:03] swyx: And so I'll highlight that talk as well.[00:20:05] Alessio: Yeah. The number six, which is the Hacken agents learn more about the environment, has been a Super interesting to us as well, just to think through, because, yeah, how do you put an agent in an enterprise where most things in an enterprise have never been public, you know, a lot of the tooling, like the code bases and things like that.[00:20:23] Alessio: So, yeah, there's not indexing and reg. Well, yeah, but it's more like. You can't really rag things that are not documented. But people know them based on how they've been doing it. You know, so I think there's almost this like, you know, Oh, institutional knowledge. Yeah, the boring word is kind of like a business process extraction.[00:20:38] Alessio: Yeah yeah, I see. It's like, how do you actually understand how these things are done? I see. Um, and I think today the, the problem is that, Yeah, the agents are, that most people are building are good at following instruction, but are not as good as like extracting them from you. Um, so I think that will be a big unlock just to touch quickly on the Jeff Dean thing.[00:20:55] Alessio: I thought it was pretty, I mean, we'll link it in the, in the things, but. I think the main [00:21:00] focus was like, how do you use ML to optimize the systems instead of just focusing on ML to do something else? Yeah, I think speculative decoding, we had, you know, Eugene from RWKB on the podcast before, like he's doing a lot of that with Fetterless AI.[00:21:12] swyx: Everyone is. I would say it's the norm. I'm a little bit uncomfortable with how much it costs, because it does use more of the GPU per call. But because everyone is so keen on fast inference, then yeah, makes sense.[00:21:24] Alessio: Exactly. Um, yeah, but we'll link that. Obviously Jeff is great.[00:21:30] swyx: Jeff is, Jeff's talk was more, it wasn't focused on Gemini.[00:21:33] swyx: I think people got the wrong impression from my tweet. It's more about how Google approaches ML and uses ML to design systems and then systems feedback into ML. And I think this ties in with Lubna's talk.[00:21:45] Synthetic Data and Future Trends[00:21:45] swyx: on synthetic data where it's basically the story of bootstrapping of humans and AI in AI research or AI in production.[00:21:53] swyx: So her talk was on synthetic data, where like how much synthetic data has grown in 2024 in the pre training side, the post training side, [00:22:00] and the eval side. And I think Jeff then also extended it basically to chips, uh, to chip design. So he'd spend a lot of time talking about alpha chip. And most of us in the audience are like, we're not working on hardware, man.[00:22:11] swyx: Like you guys are great. TPU is great. Okay. We'll buy TPUs.[00:22:14] Alessio: And then there was the earlier talk. Yeah. But, and then we have, uh, I don't know if we're calling them essays. What are we calling these? But[00:22:23] swyx: for me, it's just like bonus for late in space supporters, because I feel like they haven't been getting anything.[00:22:29] swyx: And then I wanted a more high frequency way to write stuff. Like that one I wrote in an afternoon. I think basically we now have an answer to what Ilya saw. It's one year since. The blip. And we know what he saw in 2014. We know what he saw in 2024. We think we know what he sees in 2024. He gave some hints and then we have vague indications of what he saw in 2023.[00:22:54] swyx: So that was the Oh, and then 2016 as well, because of this lawsuit with Elon, OpenAI [00:23:00] is publishing emails from Sam's, like, his personal text messages to Siobhan, Zelis, or whatever. So, like, we have emails from Ilya saying, this is what we're seeing in OpenAI, and this is why we need to scale up GPUs. And I think it's very prescient in 2016 to write that.[00:23:16] swyx: And so, like, it is exactly, like, basically his insights. It's him and Greg, basically just kind of driving the scaling up of OpenAI, while they're still playing Dota. They're like, no, like, we see the path here.[00:23:30] Alessio: Yeah, and it's funny, yeah, they even mention, you know, we can only train on 1v1 Dota. We need to train on 5v5, and that takes too many GPUs.[00:23:37] Alessio: Yeah,[00:23:37] swyx: and at least for me, I can speak for myself, like, I didn't see the path from Dota to where we are today. I think even, maybe if you ask them, like, they wouldn't necessarily draw a straight line. Yeah,[00:23:47] Alessio: no, definitely. But I think like that was like the whole idea of almost like the RL and we talked about this with Nathan on his podcast.[00:23:55] Alessio: It's like with RL, you can get very good at specific things, but then you can't really like generalize as much. And I [00:24:00] think the language models are like the opposite, which is like, you're going to throw all this data at them and scale them up, but then you really need to drive them home on a specific task later on.[00:24:08] Alessio: And we'll talk about the open AI reinforcement, fine tuning, um, announcement too, and all of that. But yeah, I think like scale is all you need. That's kind of what Elia will be remembered for. And I think just maybe to clarify on like the pre training is over thing that people love to tweet. I think the point of the talk was like everybody, we're scaling these chips, we're scaling the compute, but like the second ingredient which is data is not scaling at the same rate.[00:24:35] Alessio: So it's not necessarily pre training is over. It's kind of like What got us here won't get us there. In his email, he predicted like 10x growth every two years or something like that. And I think maybe now it's like, you know, you can 10x the chips again, but[00:24:49] swyx: I think it's 10x per year. Was it? I don't know.[00:24:52] Alessio: Exactly. And Moore's law is like 2x. So it's like, you know, much faster than that. And yeah, I like the fossil fuel of AI [00:25:00] analogy. It's kind of like, you know, the little background tokens thing. So the OpenAI reinforcement fine tuning is basically like, instead of fine tuning on data, you fine tune on a reward model.[00:25:09] Alessio: So it's basically like, instead of being data driven, it's like task driven. And I think people have tasks to do, they don't really have a lot of data. So I'm curious to see how that changes, how many people fine tune, because I think this is what people run into. It's like, Oh, you can fine tune llama. And it's like, okay, where do I get the data?[00:25:27] Alessio: To fine tune it on, you know, so it's great that we're moving the thing. And then I really like he had this chart where like, you know, the brain mass and the body mass thing is basically like mammals that scaled linearly by brain and body size, and then humans kind of like broke off the slope. So it's almost like maybe the mammal slope is like the pre training slope.[00:25:46] Alessio: And then the post training slope is like the, the human one.[00:25:49] swyx: Yeah. I wonder what the. I mean, we'll know in 10 years, but I wonder what the y axis is for, for Ilya's SSI. We'll try to get them on.[00:25:57] Alessio: Ilya, if you're listening, you're [00:26:00] welcome here. Yeah, and then he had, you know, what comes next, like agent, synthetic data, inference, compute, I thought all of that was like that.[00:26:05] Alessio: I don't[00:26:05] swyx: think he was dropping any alpha there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.[00:26:07] Alessio: Yeah. Any other new reps? Highlights?[00:26:10] swyx: I think that there was comparatively a lot more work. Oh, by the way, I need to plug that, uh, my friend Yi made this, like, little nice paper. Yeah, that was really[00:26:20] swyx: nice.[00:26:20] swyx: Uh, of, uh, of, like, all the, he's, she called it must read papers of 2024.[00:26:26] swyx: So I laid out some of these at NeurIPS, and it was just gone. Like, everyone just picked it up. Because people are dying for, like, little guidance and visualizations And so, uh, I thought it was really super nice that we got there.[00:26:38] Alessio: Should we do a late in space book for each year? Uh, I thought about it. For each year we should.[00:26:42] Alessio: Coffee table book. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Put it in the will. Hi, Will. By the way, we haven't introduced you. He's our new, you know, general organist, Jamie. You need to[00:26:52] swyx: pull up more things. One thing I saw that, uh, Okay, one fun one, and then one [00:27:00] more general one. So the fun one is this paper on agent collusion. This is a paper on steganography.[00:27:06] swyx: This is secret collusion among AI agents, multi agent deception via steganography. I tried to go to NeurIPS in order to find these kinds of papers because the real reason Like NeurIPS this year has a lottery system. A lot of people actually even go and don't buy tickets because they just go and attend the side events.[00:27:22] swyx: And then also the people who go and end up crowding around the most popular papers, which you already know and already read them before you showed up to NeurIPS. So the only reason you go there is to talk to the paper authors, but there's like something like 10, 000 other. All these papers out there that, you know, are just people's work that they, that they did on the air and they failed to get attention for one reason or another.[00:27:42] swyx: And this was one of them. Uh, it was like all the way at the back. And this is a deep mind paper that actually focuses on collusion between AI agents, uh, by hiding messages in the text that they generate. Uh, so that's what steganography is. So a very simple example would be the first letter of every word.[00:27:57] swyx: If you Pick that out, you know, and the code sends a [00:28:00] different message than that. But something I've always emphasized is to LLMs, we read left to right. LLMs can read up, down, sideways, you know, in random character order. And it's the same to them as it is to us. So if we were ever to get You know, self motivated, underlined LLMs that we're trying to collaborate to take over the planet.[00:28:19] swyx: This would be how they do it. They spread messages among us in the messages that we generate. And he developed a scaling law for that. So he marked, I'm showing it on screen right now, the emergence of this phenomenon. Basically, for example, for Cypher encoding, GPT 2, Lama 2, mixed trial, GPT 3. 5, zero capabilities, and sudden 4.[00:28:40] swyx: And this is the kind of Jason Wei type emergence properties that people kind of look for. I think what made this paper stand out as well, so he developed the benchmark for steganography collusion, and he also focused on shelling point collusion, which is very low coordination. For agreeing on a decoding encoding format, you kind of need to have some [00:29:00] agreement on that.[00:29:00] swyx: But, but shelling point means like very, very low or almost no coordination. So for example, if I, if I ask someone, if the only message I give you is meet me in New York and you're not aware. Or when you would probably meet me at Grand Central Station. That is the Grand Central Station is a shelling point.[00:29:16] swyx: And it's probably somewhere, somewhere during the day. That is the shelling point of New York is Grand Central. To that extent, shelling points for steganography are things like the, the, the common decoding methods that we talked about. It will be interesting at some point in the future when we are worried about alignment.[00:29:30] swyx: It is not interesting today, but it's interesting that DeepMind is already thinking about this.[00:29:36] Alessio: I think that's like one of the hardest things about NeurIPS. It's like the long tail. I[00:29:41] swyx: found a pricing guy. I'm going to feature him on the podcast. Basically, this guy from NVIDIA worked out the optimal pricing for language models.[00:29:51] swyx: It's basically an econometrics paper at NeurIPS, where everyone else is talking about GPUs. And the guy with the GPUs is[00:29:57] Alessio: talking[00:29:57] swyx: about economics instead. [00:30:00] That was the sort of fun one. So the focus I saw is that model papers at NeurIPS are kind of dead. No one really presents models anymore. It's just data sets.[00:30:12] swyx: This is all the grad students are working on. So like there was a data sets track and then I was looking around like, I was like, you don't need a data sets track because every paper is a data sets paper. And so data sets and benchmarks, they're kind of flip sides of the same thing. So Yeah. Cool. Yeah, if you're a grad student, you're a GPU boy, you kind of work on that.[00:30:30] swyx: And then the, the sort of big model that people walk around and pick the ones that they like, and then they use it in their models. And that's, that's kind of how it develops. I, I feel like, um, like, like you didn't last year, you had people like Hao Tian who worked on Lava, which is take Lama and add Vision.[00:30:47] swyx: And then obviously actually I hired him and he added Vision to Grok. Now he's the Vision Grok guy. This year, I don't think there was any of those.[00:30:55] Alessio: What were the most popular, like, orals? Last year it was like the [00:31:00] Mixed Monarch, I think, was like the most attended. Yeah, uh, I need to look it up. Yeah, I mean, if nothing comes to mind, that's also kind of like an answer in a way.[00:31:10] Alessio: But I think last year there was a lot of interest in, like, furthering models and, like, different architectures and all of that.[00:31:16] swyx: I will say that I felt the orals, oral picks this year were not very good. Either that or maybe it's just a So that's the highlight of how I have changed in terms of how I view papers.[00:31:29] swyx: So like, in my estimation, two of the best papers in this year for datasets or data comp and refined web or fine web. These are two actually industrially used papers, not highlighted for a while. I think DCLM got the spotlight, FineWeb didn't even get the spotlight. So like, it's just that the picks were different.[00:31:48] swyx: But one thing that does get a lot of play that a lot of people are debating is the role that's scheduled. This is the schedule free optimizer paper from Meta from Aaron DeFazio. And this [00:32:00] year in the ML community, there's been a lot of chat about shampoo, soap, all the bathroom amenities for optimizing your learning rates.[00:32:08] swyx: And, uh, most people at the big labs are. Who I asked about this, um, say that it's cute, but it's not something that matters. I don't know, but it's something that was discussed and very, very popular. 4Wars[00:32:19] Alessio: of AI recap maybe, just quickly. Um, where do you want to start? Data?[00:32:26] swyx: So to remind people, this is the 4Wars piece that we did as one of our earlier recaps of this year.[00:32:31] swyx: And the belligerents are on the left, journalists, writers, artists, anyone who owns IP basically, New York Times, Stack Overflow, Reddit, Getty, Sarah Silverman, George RR Martin. Yeah, and I think this year we can add Scarlett Johansson to that side of the fence. So anyone suing, open the eye, basically. I actually wanted to get a snapshot of all the lawsuits.[00:32:52] swyx: I'm sure some lawyer can do it. That's the data quality war. On the right hand side, we have the synthetic data people, and I think we talked about Lumna's talk, you know, [00:33:00] really showing how much synthetic data has come along this year. I think there was a bit of a fight between scale. ai and the synthetic data community, because scale.[00:33:09] swyx: ai published a paper saying that synthetic data doesn't work. Surprise, surprise, scale. ai is the leading vendor of non synthetic data. Only[00:33:17] Alessio: cage free annotated data is useful.[00:33:21] swyx: So I think there's some debate going on there, but I don't think it's much debate anymore that at least synthetic data, for the reasons that are blessed in Luna's talk, Makes sense.[00:33:32] swyx: I don't know if you have any perspectives there.[00:33:34] Alessio: I think, again, going back to the reinforcement fine tuning, I think that will change a little bit how people think about it. I think today people mostly use synthetic data, yeah, for distillation and kind of like fine tuning a smaller model from like a larger model.[00:33:46] Alessio: I'm not super aware of how the frontier labs use it outside of like the rephrase, the web thing that Apple also did. But yeah, I think it'll be. Useful. I think like whether or not that gets us the big [00:34:00] next step, I think that's maybe like TBD, you know, I think people love talking about data because it's like a GPU poor, you know, I think, uh, synthetic data is like something that people can do, you know, so they feel more opinionated about it compared to, yeah, the optimizers stuff, which is like,[00:34:17] swyx: they don't[00:34:17] Alessio: really work[00:34:18] swyx: on.[00:34:18] swyx: I think that there is an angle to the reasoning synthetic data. So this year, we covered in the paper club, the star series of papers. So that's star, Q star, V star. It basically helps you to synthesize reasoning steps, or at least distill reasoning steps from a verifier. And if you look at the OpenAI RFT, API that they released, or that they announced, basically they're asking you to submit graders, or they choose from a preset list of graders.[00:34:49] swyx: Basically It feels like a way to create valid synthetic data for them to fine tune their reasoning paths on. Um, so I think that is another angle where it starts to make sense. And [00:35:00] so like, it's very funny that basically all the data quality wars between Let's say the music industry or like the newspaper publishing industry or the textbooks industry on the big labs.[00:35:11] swyx: It's all of the pre training era. And then like the new era, like the reasoning era, like nobody has any problem with all the reasoning, especially because it's all like sort of math and science oriented with, with very reasonable graders. I think the more interesting next step is how does it generalize beyond STEM?[00:35:27] swyx: We've been using O1 for And I would say like for summarization and creative writing and instruction following, I think it's underrated. I started using O1 in our intro songs before we killed the intro songs, but it's very good at writing lyrics. You know, I can actually say like, I think one of the O1 pro demos.[00:35:46] swyx: All of these things that Noam was showing was that, you know, you can write an entire paragraph or three paragraphs without using the letter A, right?[00:35:53] Creative Writing with AI[00:35:53] swyx: So like, like literally just anything instead of token, like not even token level, character level manipulation and [00:36:00] counting and instruction following. It's, uh, it's very, very strong.[00:36:02] swyx: And so no surprises when I ask it to rhyme, uh, and to, to create song lyrics, it's going to do that very much better than in previous models. So I think it's underrated for creative writing.[00:36:11] Alessio: Yeah.[00:36:12] Legal and Ethical Issues in AI[00:36:12] Alessio: What do you think is the rationale that they're going to have in court when they don't show you the thinking traces of O1, but then they want us to, like, they're getting sued for using other publishers data, you know, but then on their end, they're like, well, you shouldn't be using my data to then train your model.[00:36:29] Alessio: So I'm curious to see how that kind of comes. Yeah, I mean, OPA has[00:36:32] swyx: many ways to publish, to punish people without bringing, taking them to court. Already banned ByteDance for distilling their, their info. And so anyone caught distilling the chain of thought will be just disallowed to continue on, on, on the API.[00:36:44] swyx: And it's fine. It's no big deal. Like, I don't even think that's an issue at all, just because the chain of thoughts are pretty well hidden. Like you have to work very, very hard to, to get it to leak. And then even when it leaks the chain of thought, you don't know if it's, if it's [00:37:00] The bigger concern is actually that there's not that much IP hiding behind it, that Cosign, which we talked about, we talked to him on Dev Day, can just fine tune 4.[00:37:13] swyx: 0 to beat 0. 1 Cloud SONET so far is beating O1 on coding tasks without, at least O1 preview, without being a reasoning model, same for Gemini Pro or Gemini 2. 0. So like, how much is reasoning important? How much of a moat is there in this, like, All of these are proprietary sort of training data that they've presumably accomplished.[00:37:34] swyx: Because even DeepSeek was able to do it. And they had, you know, two months notice to do this, to do R1. So, it's actually unclear how much moat there is. Obviously, you know, if you talk to the Strawberry team, they'll be like, yeah, I mean, we spent the last two years doing this. So, we don't know. And it's going to be Interesting because there'll be a lot of noise from people who say they have inference time compute and actually don't because they just have fancy chain of thought.[00:38:00][00:38:00] swyx: And then there's other people who actually do have very good chain of thought. And you will not see them on the same level as OpenAI because OpenAI has invested a lot in building up the mythology of their team. Um, which makes sense. Like the real answer is somewhere in between.[00:38:13] Alessio: Yeah, I think that's kind of like the main data war story developing.[00:38:18] The Data War: GPU Poor vs. GPU Rich[00:38:18] Alessio: GPU poor versus GPU rich. Yeah. Where do you think we are? I think there was, again, going back to like the small model thing, there was like a time in which the GPU poor were kind of like the rebel faction working on like these models that were like open and small and cheap. And I think today people don't really care as much about GPUs anymore.[00:38:37] Alessio: You also see it in the price of the GPUs. Like, you know, that market is kind of like plummeted because there's people don't want to be, they want to be GPU free. They don't even want to be poor. They just want to be, you know, completely without them. Yeah. How do you think about this war? You[00:38:52] swyx: can tell me about this, but like, I feel like the, the appetite for GPU rich startups, like the, you know, the, the funding plan is we will raise 60 million and [00:39:00] we'll give 50 of that to NVIDIA.[00:39:01] swyx: That is gone, right? Like, no one's, no one's pitching that. This was literally the plan, the exact plan of like, I can name like four or five startups, you know, this time last year. So yeah, GPU rich startups gone.[00:39:12] The Rise of GPU Ultra Rich[00:39:12] swyx: But I think like, The GPU ultra rich, the GPU ultra high net worth is still going. So, um, now we're, you know, we had Leopold's essay on the trillion dollar cluster.[00:39:23] swyx: We're not quite there yet. We have multiple labs, um, you know, XAI very famously, you know, Jensen Huang praising them for being. Best boy number one in spinning up 100, 000 GPU cluster in like 12 days or something. So likewise at Meta, likewise at OpenAI, likewise at the other labs as well. So like the GPU ultra rich are going to keep doing that because I think partially it's an article of faith now that you just need it.[00:39:46] swyx: Like you don't even know what it's going to, what you're going to use it for. You just, you just need it. And it makes sense that if, especially if we're going into. More researchy territory than we are. So let's say 2020 to 2023 was [00:40:00] let's scale big models territory because we had GPT 3 in 2020 and we were like, okay, we'll go from 1.[00:40:05] swyx: 75b to 1. 8b, 1. 8t. And that was GPT 3 to GPT 4. Okay, that's done. As far as everyone is concerned, Opus 3. 5 is not coming out, GPT 4. 5 is not coming out, and Gemini 2, we don't have Pro, whatever. We've hit that wall. Maybe I'll call it the 2 trillion perimeter wall. We're not going to 10 trillion. No one thinks it's a good idea, at least from training costs, from the amount of data, or at least the inference.[00:40:36] swyx: Would you pay 10x the price of GPT Probably not. Like, like you want something else that, that is at least more useful. So it makes sense that people are pivoting in terms of their inference paradigm.[00:40:47] Emerging Trends in AI Models[00:40:47] swyx: And so when it's more researchy, then you actually need more just general purpose compute to mess around with, uh, at the exact same time that production deployments of the old, the previous paradigm is still ramping up,[00:40:58] swyx: um,[00:40:58] swyx: uh, pretty aggressively.[00:40:59] swyx: So [00:41:00] it makes sense that the GPU rich are growing. We have now interviewed both together and fireworks and replicates. Uh, we haven't done any scale yet. But I think Amazon, maybe kind of a sleeper one, Amazon, in a sense of like they, at reInvent, I wasn't expecting them to do so well, but they are now a foundation model lab.[00:41:18] swyx: It's kind of interesting. Um, I think, uh, you know, David went over there and started just creating models.[00:41:25] Alessio: Yeah, I mean, that's the power of prepaid contracts. I think like a lot of AWS customers, you know, they do this big reserve instance contracts and now they got to use their money. That's why so many startups.[00:41:37] Alessio: Get bought through the AWS marketplace so they can kind of bundle them together and prefer pricing.[00:41:42] swyx: Okay, so maybe GPU super rich doing very well, GPU middle class dead, and then GPU[00:41:48] Alessio: poor. I mean, my thing is like, everybody should just be GPU rich. There shouldn't really be, even the GPU poorest, it's like, does it really make sense to be GPU poor?[00:41:57] Alessio: Like, if you're GPU poor, you should just use the [00:42:00] cloud. Yes, you know, and I think there might be a future once we kind of like figure out what the size and shape of these models is where like the tiny box and these things come to fruition where like you can be GPU poor at home. But I think today is like, why are you working so hard to like get these models to run on like very small clusters where it's like, It's so cheap to run them.[00:42:21] Alessio: Yeah, yeah,[00:42:22] swyx: yeah. I think mostly people think it's cool. People think it's a stepping stone to scaling up. So they aspire to be GPU rich one day and they're working on new methods. Like news research, like probably the most deep tech thing they've done this year is Distro or whatever the new name is.[00:42:38] swyx: There's a lot of interest in heterogeneous computing, distributed computing. I tend generally to de emphasize that historically, but it may be coming to a time where it is starting to be relevant. I don't know. You know, SF compute launched their compute marketplace this year, and like, who's really using that?[00:42:53] swyx: Like, it's a bunch of small clusters, disparate types of compute, and if you can make that [00:43:00] useful, then that will be very beneficial to the broader community, but maybe still not the source of frontier models. It's just going to be a second tier of compute that is unlocked for people, and that's fine. But yeah, I mean, I think this year, I would say a lot more on device, We are, I now have Apple intelligence on my phone.[00:43:19] swyx: Doesn't do anything apart from summarize my notifications. But still, not bad. Like, it's multi modal.[00:43:25] Alessio: Yeah, the notification summaries are so and so in my experience.[00:43:29] swyx: Yeah, but they add, they add juice to life. And then, um, Chrome Nano, uh, Gemini Nano is coming out in Chrome. Uh, they're still feature flagged, but you can, you can try it now if you, if you use the, uh, the alpha.[00:43:40] swyx: And so, like, I, I think, like, you know, We're getting the sort of GPU poor version of a lot of these things coming out, and I think it's like quite useful. Like Windows as well, rolling out RWKB in sort of every Windows department is super cool. And I think the last thing that I never put in this GPU poor war, that I think I should now, [00:44:00] is the number of startups that are GPU poor but still scaling very well, as sort of wrappers on top of either a foundation model lab, or GPU Cloud.[00:44:10] swyx: GPU Cloud, it would be Suno. Suno, Ramp has rated as one of the top ranked, fastest growing startups of the year. Um, I think the last public number is like zero to 20 million this year in ARR and Suno runs on Moto. So Suno itself is not GPU rich, but they're just doing the training on, on Moto, uh, who we've also talked to on, on the podcast.[00:44:31] swyx: The other one would be Bolt, straight cloud wrapper. And, and, um, Again, another, now they've announced 20 million ARR, which is another step up from our 8 million that we put on the title. So yeah, I mean, it's crazy that all these GPU pores are finding a way while the GPU riches are also finding a way. And then the only failures, I kind of call this the GPU smiling curve, where the edges do well, because you're either close to the machines, and you're like [00:45:00] number one on the machines, or you're like close to the customers, and you're number one on the customer side.[00:45:03] swyx: And the people who are in the middle. Inflection, um, character, didn't do that great. I think character did the best of all of them. Like, you have a note in here that we apparently said that character's price tag was[00:45:15] Alessio: 1B.[00:45:15] swyx: Did I say that?[00:45:16] Alessio: Yeah. You said Google should just buy them for 1B. I thought it was a crazy number.[00:45:20] Alessio: Then they paid 2. 7 billion. I mean, for like,[00:45:22] swyx: yeah.[00:45:22] Alessio: What do you pay for node? Like, I don't know what the game world was like. Maybe the starting price was 1B. I mean, whatever it was, it worked out for everybody involved.[00:45:31] The Multi-Modality War[00:45:31] Alessio: Multimodality war. And this one, we never had text to video in the first version, which now is the hottest.[00:45:37] swyx: Yeah, I would say it's a subset of image, but yes.[00:45:40] Alessio: Yeah, well, but I think at the time it wasn't really something people were doing, and now we had VO2 just came out yesterday. Uh, Sora was released last month, last week. I've not tried Sora, because the day that I tried, it wasn't, yeah. I[00:45:54] swyx: think it's generally available now, you can go to Sora.[00:45:56] swyx: com and try it. Yeah, they had[00:45:58] Alessio: the outage. Which I [00:46:00] think also played a part into it. Small things. Yeah. What's the other model that you posted today that was on Replicate? Video or OneLive?[00:46:08] swyx: Yeah. Very, very nondescript name, but it is from Minimax, which I think is a Chinese lab. The Chinese labs do surprisingly well at the video models.[00:46:20] swyx: I'm not sure it's actually Chinese. I don't know. Hold me up to that. Yep. China. It's good. Yeah, the Chinese love video. What can I say? They have a lot of training data for video. Or a more relaxed regulatory environment.[00:46:37] Alessio: Uh, well, sure, in some way. Yeah, I don't think there's much else there. I think like, you know, on the image side, I think it's still open.[00:46:45] Alessio: Yeah, I mean,[00:46:46] swyx: 11labs is now a unicorn. So basically, what is multi modality war? Multi modality war is, do you specialize in a single modality, right? Or do you have GodModel that does all the modalities? So this is [00:47:00] definitely still going, in a sense of 11 labs, you know, now Unicorn, PicoLabs doing well, they launched Pico 2.[00:47:06] swyx: 0 recently, HeyGen, I think has reached 100 million ARR, Assembly, I don't know, but they have billboards all over the place, so I assume they're doing very, very well. So these are all specialist models, specialist models and specialist startups. And then there's the big labs who are doing the sort of all in one play.[00:47:24] swyx: And then here I would highlight Gemini 2 for having native image output. Have you seen the demos? Um, yeah, it's, it's hard to keep up. Literally they launched this last week and a shout out to Paige Bailey, who came to the Latent Space event to demo on the day of launch. And she wasn't prepared. She was just like, I'm just going to show you.[00:47:43] swyx: So they have voice. They have, you know, obviously image input, and then they obviously can code gen and all that. But the new one that OpenAI and Meta both have but they haven't launched yet is image output. So you can literally, um, I think their demo video was that you put in an image of a [00:48:00] car, and you ask for minor modifications to that car.[00:48:02] swyx: They can generate you that modification exactly as you asked. So there's no need for the stable diffusion or comfy UI workflow of like mask here and then like infill there in paint there and all that, all that stuff. This is small model nonsense. Big model people are like, huh, we got you in as everything in the transformer.[00:48:21] swyx: This is the multimodality war, which is, do you, do you bet on the God model or do you string together a whole bunch of, uh, Small models like a, like a chump. Yeah,[00:48:29] Alessio: I don't know, man. Yeah, that would be interesting. I mean, obviously I use Midjourney for all of our thumbnails. Um, they've been doing a ton on the product, I would say.[00:48:38] Alessio: They launched a new Midjourney editor thing. They've been doing a ton. Because I think, yeah, the motto is kind of like, Maybe, you know, people say black forest, the black forest models are better than mid journey on a pixel by pixel basis. But I think when you put it, put it together, have you tried[00:48:53] swyx: the same problems on black forest?[00:48:55] Alessio: Yes. But the problem is just like, you know, on black forest, it generates one image. And then it's like, you got to [00:49:00] regenerate. You don't have all these like UI things. Like what I do, no, but it's like time issue, you know, it's like a mid[00:49:06] swyx: journey. Call the API four times.[00:49:08] Alessio: No, but then there's no like variate.[00:49:10] Alessio: Like the good thing about mid journey is like, you just go in there and you're cooking. There's a lot of stuff that just makes it really easy. And I think people underestimate that. Like, it's not really a skill issue, because I'm paying mid journey, so it's a Black Forest skill issue, because I'm not paying them, you know?[00:49:24] Alessio: Yeah,[00:49:25] swyx: so, okay, so, uh, this is a UX thing, right? Like, you, you, you understand that, at least, we think that Black Forest should be able to do all that stuff. I will also shout out, ReCraft has come out, uh, on top of the image arena that, uh, artificial analysis has done, has apparently, uh, Flux's place. Is this still true?[00:49:41] swyx: So, Artificial Analysis is now a company. I highlighted them I think in one of the early AI Newses of the year. And they have launched a whole bunch of arenas. So, they're trying to take on LM Arena, Anastasios and crew. And they have an image arena. Oh yeah, Recraft v3 is now beating Flux 1. 1. Which is very surprising [00:50:00] because Flux And Black Forest Labs are the old stable diffusion crew who left stability after, um, the management issues.[00:50:06] swyx: So Recurve has come from nowhere to be the top image model. Uh, very, very strange. I would also highlight that Grok has now launched Aurora, which is, it's very interesting dynamics between Grok and Black Forest Labs because Grok's images were originally launched, uh, in partnership with Black Forest Labs as a, as a thin wrapper.[00:50:24] swyx: And then Grok was like, no, we'll make our own. And so they've made their own. I don't know, there are no APIs or benchmarks about it. They just announced it. So yeah, that's the multi modality war. I would say that so far, the small model, the dedicated model people are winning, because they are just focused on their tasks.[00:50:42] swyx: But the big model, People are always catching up. And the moment I saw the Gemini 2 demo of image editing, where I can put in an image and just request it and it does, that's how AI should work. Not like a whole bunch of complicated steps. So it really is something. And I think one frontier that we haven't [00:51:00] seen this year, like obviously video has done very well, and it will continue to grow.[00:51:03] swyx: You know, we only have Sora Turbo today, but at some point we'll get full Sora. Oh, at least the Hollywood Labs will get Fulsora. We haven't seen video to audio, or video synced to audio. And so the researchers that I talked to are already starting to talk about that as the next frontier. But there's still maybe like five more years of video left to actually be Soda.[00:51:23] swyx: I would say that Gemini's approach Compared to OpenAI, Gemini seems, or DeepMind's approach to video seems a lot more fully fledged than OpenAI. Because if you look at the ICML recap that I published that so far nobody has listened to, um, that people have listened to it. It's just a different, definitely different audience.[00:51:43] swyx: It's only seven hours long. Why are people not listening? It's like everything in Uh, so, so DeepMind has, is working on Genie. They also launched Genie 2 and VideoPoet. So, like, they have maybe four years advantage on world modeling that OpenAI does not have. Because OpenAI basically only started [00:52:00] Diffusion Transformers last year, you know, when they hired, uh, Bill Peebles.[00:52:03] swyx: So, DeepMind has, has a bit of advantage here, I would say, in, in, in showing, like, the reason that VO2, while one, They cherry pick their videos. So obviously it looks better than Sora, but the reason I would believe that VO2, uh, when it's fully launched will do very well is because they have all this background work in video that they've done for years.[00:52:22] swyx: Like, like last year's NeurIPS, I already was interviewing some of their video people. I forget their model name, but for, for people who are dedicated fans, they can go to NeurIPS 2023 and see, see that paper.[00:52:32] Alessio: And then last but not least, the LLMOS. We renamed it to Ragops, formerly known as[00:52:39] swyx: Ragops War. I put the latest chart on the Braintrust episode.[00:52:43] swyx: I think I'm going to separate these essays from the episode notes. So the reason I used to do that, by the way, is because I wanted to show up on Hacker News. I wanted the podcast to show up on Hacker News. So I always put an essay inside of there because Hacker News people like to read and not listen.[00:52:58] Alessio: So episode essays,[00:52:59] swyx: I remember [00:53:00] purchasing them separately. You say Lanchain Llama Index is still growing.[00:53:03] Alessio: Yeah, so I looked at the PyPy stats, you know. I don't care about stars. On PyPy you see Do you want to share your screen? Yes. I prefer to look at actual downloads, not at stars on GitHub. So if you look at, you know, Lanchain still growing.[00:53:20] Alessio: These are the last six months. Llama Index still growing. What I've basically seen is like things that, One, obviously these things have A commercial product. So there's like people buying this and sticking with it versus kind of hopping in between things versus, you know, for example, crew AI, not really growing as much.[00:53:38] Alessio: The stars are growing. If you look on GitHub, like the stars are growing, but kind of like the usage is kind of like flat. In the last six months, have they done some[00:53:4

The Yankees traded for OF/1B Cody Bellinger. They are not done adding yet as they still have plenty of money since they didn't sign Juan Soto. We had a man dinner last night that included John Franco and Al Leiter and Gio was talking baseball with them. We also took the ferry from NYC to Jersey City and it was a great experience. The topic of drones came up at dinner but Gio didn't want to be seen as a crazy guy if he was talking about UFOs. Mike Francesa even weighed in, thinking it's Amazon preparing to deliver packages with drones. Jerry is here for his first update of the day, but first we talked about the new Bob Dylan biopic that is coming out on Christmas Day. Jerry has audio of Francesa talking about UFOs and drones. The Falcons are making the switch to Micahel Penix Jr in their game against the Giants and for the rest of the season. Jerry Jones was on the radio in Dallas and said he has eaten raccoon and squirrel. His favorite part was the brain, ‘delicious, seriously'. In the final segment of the hour, we talked about the no win situation for the Giants Sunday. They passed on Penix in the draft and if the Giants win they ruin their draft position.

Hour 1 The Yankees traded for OF/1B Cody Bellinger. They are not done adding yet as they still have plenty of money since they didn't sign Juan Soto. We had a man dinner last night that included John Franco and Al Leiter and Gio was talking baseball with them. We also took the ferry from NYC to Jersey City and it was a great experience. The topic of drones came up at dinner but Gio didn't want to be seen as a crazy guy if he was talking about UFOs. Mike Francesa even weighed in, thinking it's Amazon preparing to deliver packages with drones. Jerry is here for his first update of the day, but first we talked about the new Bob Dylan biopic that is coming out on Christmas Day. Jerry has audio of Francesa talking about UFOs and drones. The Falcons are making the switch to Micahel Penix Jr in their game against the Giants and for the rest of the season. Jerry Jones was on the radio in Dallas and said he has eaten raccoon and squirrel. His favorite part was the brain, ‘delicious, seriously'. In the final segment of the hour, we talked about the no win situation for the Giants Sunday. They passed on Penix in the draft and if the Giants win they ruin their draft position. Hour 2 Cody Bellinger's wife previously dated Giancarlo Stanton. Did Brian Cashman know about this prior to seeing if it would be an issue? Gio said Giancarlo has probably had 10,000 girlfriends so it's probably not a big deal. Gio talks about a time at WFAN where numerous guys dated the same woman over a period of a few years. Jerry returns for an update and starts with Devin Williams talking about coming to the Yankees. Clay Holmes met the media to talk about joining the Mets. Michael Vick is the new head coach at Norfolk State. The Milwaukee Bucks won the NBA Cup. Shaq talked about hating all the threes in the NBA. Chris Russo doesn't like Shaq criticizing the NBA. Shaq doesn't know who Russo is. In the final segment of the hour, Al gifted Gio with a Christmas video message from Aman100, who Gio loves from TikTok/Instagram. Hour 3 Phil Simms joins us in his usual Wednesday spot. We started with Michael Penix Jr, who will start this week against the Giants and for the rest of the season. We talked about whether Schoen and Daboll would be back next year. Who would Phil give the MVP to right now? Phil doesn't think the Bills can go to the Super Bowl and win it because of their defense. We also talked about Patrick Mahomes' injury as the season winds down and we head into the playoffs. Gio asked Phil about Mike Vrabel for the Jets and if that's a fit. He thinks if Vrabel goes to the Jets, then Rodgers is out. Phil thinks Sam Darnold would be great for the Colts. Jerry returns for an update and starts with audio of Ryan Clark vs Aaron Rodgers on with McAfee. Bill Simmons had an interesting theory on why guys let go of a ball before they get in the end zone. Chris Russo was not happy with the upcoming NFL schedule on Christmas. He then reacted to the number of broadcasters on the game. In the final segment of the hour, there are 22 on air people involved in 2 Netflix games. Gio throws some names out there to see if Boomer knows if the person is one of the broadcasters or is not part of the broadcast. Hour 4 Gio cannot believe how long Boomer's illness has been lingering. Gio thinks he needs to be tested for pneumonia. Gio was at the doctor the other day and there was a man in the waiting room who had not bathed in a very long time. Jerry returns for his final update of the day and starts with Michael Penix Jr getting the start this week against the Giants in Atlanta. Jerry Jones was asked about trading Micah Parsons in the offseason. Clay Holmes talked about coming to the Mets who now have Juan Soto. The Moment of The Day: When multiple people at work dated the same woman. In the final segment of the show, a caller wonders if Mike McDaniel is going to get fired in Miami.

YO!!! We're finally back! It's been a while, but we're working on getting back into the swing of things. Meet our new co-host Balaram Shakti and enjoy this trip down memory lane with Sean & John from By A Thread.    This episode's sponsor is our friends at Iodine Records. Check out a ton of cool new and archival releases here: https://iodinerecords.com/   This episode is also dedicated in loving memory to Kim Kinakin of Sparkmarker who passed away in September. 

Welcome to episode 28 of The Terry Collins Show. The weekly podcast covering all things NEW YORK METS! The Mets 2024 campaign comes to a close - with their elimination in the NLCS by the Los Angeles Dodgers. In spite of the loss - the Mets 2024 season was magical in so many ways. On this edition of the show, Terry Collins and John Arezzi bring on the Radio Voice of the Mets, Howie Rose and SNY Columnist, John Harper to discuss it all. John Franco is this week's Tunnel to Towers AMAZIN HERO OF THE WEEK in a special segment. Plus we remember Fernando Valenzuela Subscribe to the Terry Collins YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@UCoi8h1IGLoq-ieBy2OxCXHA Follow Terry Collins on X: https://twitter.com/TerryCollins_10 Follow Terry Collins on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrycollins_10/ Follow John Arezzi on X: https://twitter.com/JohnArezzi Follow John Arezzi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnarezzi Donate $11 a month to now help first responders, veterans and our military heroes. Go to Tunnel to Towers and help them do good: https://t2t.org/ Host: Terry Collins Co-Host: John Arezzi Creative Director: Marsh Executive Producer: John Arezzi Copyright 2024: The Terry Collins Show Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to episode 16 of The Terry Collins Show. The weekly podcast covering all things NEW YORK METS. With the trade deadline here, and the Mets in a wild card spot after an amazin turn around - we welcome on this special edition of the Terry Collins show, current Mets manager CARLOS MENDOZA! The 2 skippers discuss the Mets 2024 season as only two managers can! An insightful show. We discuss Mets fandom, comparing 2015 to 2024, and how Citi Field turns into a different place when a special season develops. Plus we debut and honor another Tunnel to Towers AMAZIN HERO OF THE WEEK - NY METS Hall of Famer, JOHN FRANCO! Subscribe to the Terry Collins YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@UCoi8h1IGLoq-ieBy2OxCXHA Follow Terry Collins on X: https://twitter.com/TerryCollins_10 Follow Terry Collins on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrycollins_10/ Follow John Arezzi on X: https://twitter.com/JohnArezzi Follow John Arezzi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnarezzi Donate now to Tunnel to Towers: https://t2t.org/ Host: Terry Collins Co-Host: John Arezzi Creative Director: Marsh Executive Producers: Mark Milliere and John Arezzi Copyright 2024: The Terry Collins Show Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Saturday, July 27th Mets fans will have a chance to get a Mercury Mets Mike Piazza jersey when they come to the game! Ahead of this, John Franco and Glendon Rusch talk about the "Turn Ahead The Clocks" promotion many teams got in on in 1999! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to episode 9 of The Terry Collins Show. The weekly podcast covering all things NEW YORK METS. On this very special episode of the show - Terry and John Arezzi welcome NY Mets Hall of Famer and former Captain of the team - reliever John Franco to talkin with TC. Franco discusses his stellar career, the current Mets, and his desire to get back into the game and help young pitchers. A wonderful interview with the always authentic John Franco! We also honor another Tunnel to Towers Foundation "Amazin Hero of the Week". Subscribe to the Terry Collins YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTerryCollinsShow Follow Terry Collins on X: https://twitter.com/TerryCollins_10 Follow Terry Collins on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrycollins_10/ Follow John Arezzi on X: https://twitter.com/JohnArezzi Follow John Arezzi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnarezzi Donate now to Tunnel to Towers: https://t2t.org/ Host: Terry Collins Co-Host: John Arezzi Creative Director: Marsh Executive Producers: Mark Milliere and John Arezzi Copyright 2024: The Terry Collins Show Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to episode 8 of The Terry Collins Show. The weekly podcast covering all things NEW YORK METS. We kick off this episode with the announcement of the partnership with The Terry Collins Show and the Tunnel to Towers Foundation! Andy Martino, baseball analyst from SNY joins John Arezzi and Terry to discuss the current free fall of the Mets. We are also joined by Mets Hall of Famer John Franco to discuss his involvement with Tunnel to Towers and the night Mike Piazza hit his dramatic Home Run on the first home game in NY after 9/11. Plus the Tunnel to Towers first Amazin Hero of the Week - Pete Alonso! Subscribe to the Terry Collins YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@TheTerryCollinsShow Follow Terry Collins on X: https://twitter.com/TerryCollins_10 Follow Terry Collins on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrycollins_10/ Follow John Arezzi on X: https://twitter.com/JohnArezzi Follow John Arezzi on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnarezzi Donate now to Tunnel to Towers: https://t2t.org/ Host: Terry Collins Co-Host: John Arezzi Creative Director: Marsh Executive Producers: Mark Milliere and John Arezzi Copyright 2024: The Terry Collins Show Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brad Crowell and Lesley Logan share enlightening takeaways from confidence expert Simone in this compelling episode. They explore how confidence can be intentionally built through facing challenges and adopting actionable strategies. Tune in to learn about embracing failures, transforming mindsets, and using these experiences to cultivate a more confident and self-loving approach to life.If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co. And as always, if you're enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.In this episode you will learn about:Failure is a pathway to growth and a valuable learning experience.Cultivating a positive mindset to fuel actions and attract success. The importance of regularly asking yourself what you truly want in life.  Why acceptance and self-love is the foundation for true confidence. Episode References/Links:OPC Summer CampCambodia early birdSummer Tour is around the cornerBarrels FlashcardsLesley Logan eLevateBest Pilates Reformer for Home StudiosShop Spine Corrector at ContrologySimone Knego's websiteSimone Knego's podcastDaughter Dearest Pod interview with Lesley Logan  If you enjoyed this episode, make sure and give us a five star rating and leave us a review on iTunes, Podcast Addict, Podchaser or Castbox. DEALS! Check out all our Preferred Vendors & Special Deals from Clair Sparrow, Sensate, Lyfefuel BeeKeeper's Naturals, Sauna Space, HigherDose, AG1 and ToeSox Be in the know with all the workshops at OPCBe It Till You See It Podcast SurveyBe a part of Lesley's Pilates MentorshipFREE Ditching Busy Webinar  Resources:Watch the Be It Till You See It podcast on YouTube!Lesley Logan websiteBe It Till You See It PodcastOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley LoganOnline Pilates Classes by Lesley Logan on YouTubeProfitable Pilates Follow Us on Social Media:InstagramFacebookLinkedIn  Episode Transcript:Lesley Logan 0:00  She actually believes that failure is actually an important part of how we grow and it's not a stop sign I love that failure is actually not a stop sign of some people come like we'll have an obstacle on the go oh, this is a sign that I'm not supposed to doing the thing? No, it's actually the thing you have to learn how to overcome to get to the next bucket level sometimes. Welcome to the be it till you see it podcast, where we talk about taking messy action knowing that perfect is boring. I must say Logan Paul is instructor and fitness business coach. I've trained 1000s of people around the world. And the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it's the antidote to fear. Each week my guests will bring bold executable intrinsic and targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and be it till you see it it's a practice not a perfect LET'S GET STARTED Welcome back to the beat till you see it interview recap where my co host and life Brad and I are going to dig into the positively competent combo I had with Simone Cunego in our last episode if you haven't yet listened to that one you should listen to it now. I'm gonna say positively competent combo I had with Simone Cunego did get on that can we just say that those words together positively competent combo with Simone Koneko. Like there's it's like one of those like, She sells seashells down by the seashore. I know you should have heard me yesterday when I was filming tutorials for the barrel stack okay, I had to keep saying see shaper. See shaper see shaper and it was really hard not to say shaper. Like you will say like you say it like I'm Leslie Logan here to talk about criss cross on the sea shaper and then it's like the C shape or the t shirt you just keep saying it starts to blend into su words. Hi guys anyways, todayBrad Crowell 1:59  it was a third take through that intro by the way.Lesley Logan 2:02  I was reading the wrong one slang. It's okay listen to the outtakes at the end. You'll hear it out here. So today is May 9 And it's all last sock Memorial Day. This is when you do due to or what's a memorial song?Brad Crowell 2:18  Do I have no idea what immortal Okay,Lesley Logan 2:21  so the origin of last sock Memorial Day is as big a mystery as the whereabouts are the socks. The day is meant to memorialize. But socks have been around for centuries. And it's clear Americans love their socks and 2018 in the US alone we purchased over $11 billion in socks. Most men wear socks every day including those particularly fashionable guys who wear socks with sandals Brad what hardly oh my gosh, you guys are ugly. We're so lucky. We know he wears socks with his sandals all all the time his socks and stocks all the time. So I believe rock industry continues to grow in sales and expand in variety. Gone are the days of the one color one style sock HelloBrad Crowell 2:57  Who does that boringLesley Logan 2:58  I know I'm back to crew socks that I love it. Today socks are multiple purposes and are manufactured perform based on neat of course the dress the trouser sock is neutral colors exist for professionals, or fancy occasions for the markets for fun and functional socks are making a name for themselves. There are themed graphics like it keeps going I have Star Wars I'm going to skip to the end. So apparently they did a survey. And it said that the average person loses 1.3 SOCKS per month what that is over 15 SOCKS per person per year. So you can see that this is universally hits home and it causes us all distress when sock goes missing major distress. In fact, today we stand together to pay tribute to our deeply departed socks and this is where the song would come on. AndBrad Crowell 3:42  it would be amazing because it causes so much stress that I decided with the help of my favorite chat bot to write an ode to my last suck. Okay, so here we go Jeffro should be singing this Oh noble sock, vanishing into the abyss of the laundry is dark realm. Once snugly paired now solitary you wander alone, a solitary helm in the labyrinth of mismatched pairs your absence leaves a longing overwhelmLesley Logan 4:14  long and overwhelmed. That's how it finished up on chat TV.Brad Crowell 4:18  Ah Hey, who said that?Lesley Logan 4:21  I don't know who your favorite is. I that's what I know. That's all you guys I don't even I don't even use a chatbot I don't I don't use I don't have any AI. That's what my team is for. Okay, back to the regular scheduled program upcoming events and travel get ready get your get your pen and paper out and paper out OPC summer camp is less than a month away June one and we are hoping for the biggest biggest summer camp Edberg. If you don't have to attend live you can watch the replays. So what you can do to go is go to opc.me/events OPC that means slash events plural and you will see we have 14 events and you can buy them ala carte. You can buy a day pass or you buy both day passes. The savings is On the day pass, I will tell you that at any rate, I'm teaching one event and we have 13 other teachers from around the world. I'm so excited. We have a variety of classes and workshops and all different pieces of equipment, spinning different topics we've got, like Heather Ingram is doing Empower Matt. It's a resiliency mat class for those who have who had breast cancer or have are going through it. I'm super excited about that. We have Aaron Donohue doing a pelvic floor mat class. Super stoked about that. We also have workshops on knee pain, we have one a chair class, a couple reformer classes, a Tower of Power with the head tower power, happy hour with Lisa, I can keep going, it's gonna be great. We have 1414. So seven classes, seven workshops, over two days, come alive for the party. Watch the replays whenever you want. But you got to buy them before they go into full price. I'm just saying. So obviously that means slash events June 1 And second is going to be when we go live. Yeah.Brad Crowell 5:58  And if you sign up for any of them, whether you pick ala carte, or you buy the full day pass, you actually have access to the replay indefinitely. Yeah. in perpetuity, in perpetuity forever ever. For Finiti CambodiaLesley Logan 6:15  earlybird is happening as this is happening. So if you are on the waitlist, got the email, and if you aren't on the waitlist, you don't get it. So you have to wait. Well,Brad Crowell 6:24  if you want to get on the waitlist right now go to Leslie logan.co/retreats. With portal that's plural. So that'sLesley Logan 6:31  gonna be our February event because October is very sold out. Yeah, first of all down super not an option. So FebruaryBrad Crowell 6:39  in and yeah, February, we're gonna go the 25th I think for 23 to 28, something like that. It's the end of Feb. It'sLesley Logan 6:46  after it's after the Lunar New Year. So you know, we'll be past the high season of travel andBrad Crowell 6:52  it's gonna be great. I'm really, really fired up and we're gonna have an amazing group at that point in the year as well. Next up, we got Summer Tour summer.Lesley Logan 7:01  We are doing a summer tour. We're not doing the West Coast tour. This time we're doing the summer we're doing I don't know it was the Midwest. Yeah. And I'm super excited because I've been back to Milwaukee since 2018. IBrad Crowell 7:12  know it's been a minute and in fact, you've never done Minnesota and we're looking at I've never been to Minnesota. I got locked in. It's not confirmed yet, but we're working on it literally right now.Lesley Logan 7:22  We're gonna get back to Chicago for the first time since 2018.Brad Crowell 7:25  Yeah, this time we're gonna hit Cleveland, but on the summer tour, and then we're gonna go south back through the Midwest. So we're looking at like, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City. Yeah, we're even looking at Colorado Springs, y'all.Lesley Logan 7:41  Yeah. So at any rate, you want to go to opc.me/door? Yeah, getBrad Crowell 7:45  yourself on the waitlist for the tour. We're going to start talking about it and opening up the doors for that in earnest after summer camp. So yeah, first is summer camp. After that. We'll do the Summer Tour. Yeah.Speaker 1 7:55  Barrels flashcard. Oh, my goodness. So actuallyBrad Crowell 7:59  lots of progress.Lesley Logan 8:00  Here's the thing. This might be the last chance get on the waitlist, because based on one's is coming out and our presale is very, very, very sorted. It could be happening as we speak. I'm not really certain on that. So here's the deal. You want to go to opc.me/flashcard waitlist, it's a lot. It's a mouthful. Ready. opc.me/flashcard waitlist, all in a word. So only people on the waitlist will get the presale price. The pre sale price is the best price you don't want to miss out on that.Brad Crowell 8:28  Oh, this is a new exciting news that les is looking at me like do we want to talk about this? Maybe maybe not.Lesley Logan 8:36  No, I'm skipping it. We're skipping it. There's other people who need to hear about that first. Okay.Brad Crowell 8:40  All right. Well, we have something very exciting, well, secret that we will shareLesley Logan 8:45  later. Because come back maybe next week, but not just me doing that.Brad Crowell 8:48  Alright, so lastly, butLesley Logan 8:51  not leastly is the elevate my mentorship program for amazing teachersBrad Crowell 8:57  to say lastly, but not less late. Oh.Lesley Logan 9:01  All right. All right. So if you look at the OBC summer camp, all the teachers have been through my mentorship program. So they will to see how they teach and like their personalities and their styles. And I couldn't pick every grad. So for the grads listening, it's not like I skipped you. There. I only do so many. But I I was able to see the teaching, and I was able to at that time pick them. I'm not saying that. That's why you should elevate you should do elevate because it makes you fucking badass. Yeah, and I actually just got a message from one of our grads who was kind of treated like a little bit like crap at work. And she actually took a moment and asked for a meeting. And then she asked what she want that meeting. She got what she wanted that meeting and she was able to remember like a year before being so scared to have a meeting. And now she's like comparing herself to herself. It's like, I know I'm good. And so if you are wanting competence in your teaching and your power and your awesomeness, and you are already a comprehensively to mean teacher, go to Leslie logan.co/ew. Leslie Logan, that CEO slash Ew, that's going to get you on the waitlist. The people on the waitlist are the ones who and we invited to apply. And we're not probably doing applications until after summer camp to be completely honest. I'm I'm 100% positive about that. But we have to fill 2025 early so you guys can plan your life around this amazing experience. Yeah. And it's virtual my mentorship is virtual you can come in person around for is like all up a whole bunch of people out there all the time. I love it so much. So anyways,Brad Crowell 10:37  we also people who are all over the world as literally not an option to come in person. So yeah, it was designed to be virtual. Just we got a couple of people who were like, Can I drop in?Lesley Logan 10:45  And then we're like, Sure. And then people just keep coming. And now it's like, it's amazing. We know a guy named Kevin around the corner who Airbnbs his place. So we met Kevin, we don't we actually have never met Kevin but okay, so we thought we gotta get into some Alan. But before we do that, do we have an audience? Question?Brad Crowell 11:02  We sure do. This is from Daniella on Instagram, on the ad G. Is there a cheap reformer that you can recommend? Dr. Leslie? No, there isn't.Lesley Logan 11:15  There's not there is not there isn't? Here's the deal. If you are looking for appeal applies equipment you can afford. Check out a window chair, check out a spine corrector check out the ControlLogix line. The spine corrector is about $700 When a chair I want to say is like 1200 and might be a little bit better. Look, I don't know what the price is already done this exact moment. But yes, that's still expensive. But it is a piece of code that doesn't take up a lot of space. You can have an amazing workout on it. It will support your mat practice. And it's not forBrad Crowell 11:41  rolling it around. It doesn't break either. Yeah. YouLesley Logan 11:45  know, and so the best performer is a ControlLogix reformer. And then there's other reforms that are also amazing. But any reformer, that's really going to get you the results you want isn't me over $3,000 I'm sorry. I hate to break it to you. That's just how it goes. They're hard to make they have hundreds of parts. Like it's just a complicated and when there is a cheaper form are out there that you're seeing, like Costco or some like that, it's probably doesn't have springs, it probably doesn't have the weight limit. Most easel springs, right? It's not going to have the foot bar that moves around. So check out my video on YouTube about choosing a home or farmer and you will hear why I cannot tell you about a cheaper farmer that I would ever recommend. Yeah,Brad Crowell 12:27  so just go to a search lesson Logan home reformer or we'll put it in the show. It'sLesley Logan 12:34  a YouTube video. So thank you for your question, Daniela. I'm so sorry. I'm the bearer of bad news. But also, you know what one of my clients she has a tower and a wooden chair in her entryway of her townhouse. And she's had an a spine corrector now she misses reformer. Absolutely. She actually doesn't have space for it. So this is what we're doing. And it's really quite exciting. You'd be surprised what you can get out of having a spine Correct. I have another client that I teach online who only has a mat and I want to cheer and you know, like it's great. It's amazing. We work out every week together. So anyway, thanks for asking good questions. Send your questions in via pod we will answer them here and and that's that's that heard itBrad Crowell 13:14  here first, peeps. Okay. Now let's talk about Simone. Can I go Simone, a keynote speaker and author of the extraordinary an ordinary you is renowned for her journey from CPA to a dedicated advocate for women with experiences in teaching medical sales and charitable works. She uses her diverse background of inspire and empower confidence in others. Simona is also the host of the daughter dears podcast, furthering her impact on personal development. I just want to do a brag for Simone. She summited Mount Kilimanjaro. Kilimanjaro, the big one. It's pretty cool.Lesley Logan 13:50  It's really cool. Also, I was on the daughter ders podcast. So I would go listen to my episode. It's a great way to break into the daughter dears podcast, I look got to talk to her daughter Olivia. And, and also Simone and Nate has asked really great questions, and we had a really great conversation. So highly recommend that you go listen to that episode. And then you can see if you really like it. I think her podcasts is really great. I love this a mother daughter podcast, and they talk about really amazing things someone has just, she's also just freaking cool. And she has the coolest tennis shoes. Oh, it just came out. Yeah, it just came outBrad Crowell 14:28  the episode. I'm gonna put the I'm going to put the link to that in the show notes.Lesley Logan 14:33  While he's doing that. Here's the deal. I loved that she is a very big believer that it's okay to change your mind. I think that's really something we we I for fucking sure have a really hard time doing this. Brad has been the reason why all like, he taught me how to cancel plans. He's like I said, but we told him to do that. He's like, Well, we changed our mind. We can't we're not or we aren't doing the thing that was over there. So we can't do the thing with them that's over there. So it's gonna have Change. And I'm like, oh my god, people get mad. So anyways, I just absolutely love that she, that she said this. And I think it's a great point for all of us. But until I see it people to remember that it's okay to change your mind. And trying different things also means that she has to fail and some of it and I think that that's also a really cool thing, you're gonna fail forward, really, especially if you learn from it. She actually believes that failure is actually an important part of how we grow. And it's not a stop sign. I love that. Failure is actually not a stop sign of some people come like we'll have an obstacle on the go, oh, this is a sign that I'm so busy doing the thing? No, it's actually the thing you have to learn how to overcome to get to the next fucking level, sometimes, you know what I mean? People Oh, door closed at the sign of necessity after that thing. You know what I mean? It's like, no one thinks about that with dating. By the way, no one goes up that day, it was honestly me alone for my date set. So that means I'm not meant to be with anybody. You know what I mean? But we think about that with anything that we want to do in our life, or like, Oh, no one responded to my post. So I'm not good enough, whatever. And it's like that, what are you talking about? These are not stop signs. These are just feedback. And she also mentioned that we should embrace failure. And to understand failures don't equal your worth. I love this. Because all the people that we admire, who are amazing business, people, whatever, they all fail on a lot of things. One of our coaches, literally coaches, people on book titles, and all these things. And he talks endlessly about how he titled one of his books terribly wrong.Brad Crowell 16:36  And he argued, he argued for this title that he has now concluded later is terribly wrong. It's terribly wrong. Like he was convinced this is going to be the best amazing title ever.Lesley Logan 16:48  Yeah, more or less. And so but he has used it as a way to help others not have that same thing. So it's kind of we, you know, these fail, we should call them other things. This is some words that need rebranding. And failure is one of them. It's a sliding step. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not the marketing people here. But I'm just saying it needs a new thing. Well, I'll your needs a PR person,Brad Crowell 17:17  we need a PR person for failure. Alright, here's what I really loved. She was talking about Kilimanjaro. Actually, really, really fascinating side note, she said that we apparently have 6000, roughly 6000 thoughts a day and 80% of them are negative what the effLesley Logan 17:33  I know. And also most of them are repetitive. They're the same thoughts as before. I'm like, who's counting these thoughts? Ding, ding. And also, do you ever wonder like, okay, as the overachiever in the room, the recovering one? I'm like, a bit, you have more?Brad Crowell 17:49  A bit, you have more negative thoughts than you know,Lesley Logan 17:52  I'm not. I'm not fighting for those. But that's funny.Brad Crowell 17:55  She said, when she was climbing Kilimanjaro. First off, it was like, a process to even get there and the mental battle to you know, write off the people who are who are basically challenging her. Or do you think you're actually going to make it? You know, like, yeah, I fucking do. Why do you think I'm going to I'm just going to do this. So I can go to the base. ButLesley Logan 18:16  what needs me fucking train on proper responses in life? Just yeah, that's here's the thing. When someone gets married, you don't have to ask them if they're having a baby. When someone said they're gonna climb a mountain. You don't have to ask them. Do you think you're gonna fucking finish it? Yeah, what happens? IfBrad Crowell 18:30  you follow? It says I'm going to open a Pilates studio. Do your friends go? Really? That's so risky. Are you going to do that? Yeah. Well, yes. If they say that,Lesley Logan 18:37  then and it's one or the other. If that is you, if I just said, if I just said a response that you think you've done, first of all, give yourself permission to never do it again. And also let it go. You did it and now you know better. But it I get it. Like I have a girlfriend who I just was having coffee with and she has a four year old. And there is a part of me that wants to know, does she want to have another guess what I didn't do ask? I kept it to my fucking cell. If she wants to tell me if she's having another, she will tell me. It's not my business. That's fun. Anyways, well,Brad Crowell 19:08  so she she was talking about while she was climbing Kilimanjaro. She was actually having this internal argument with herself. And she had to, you know, continue to encourage her own self and challenge herself while she was climbing the hill, y'all. And she said, when you once you got back home, it was really exhilarating. You know, it was quite a moment that she could be proud of. And she said, the challenge of it was something that she isn't going to forget she see challenged us to find our own Kilimanjaro and in a figurative sense, not necessarily a literal sense. Although, if any of you decide to go climb Kilimanjaro, tell us because we will cheer you along. There'll be alsoLesley Logan 19:55  the other Kilimanjaro climber we've had because now we've had to JenBrad Crowell 19:59  Did she climb a clique is Kilimanjaro the second highest? So yeah, it'sLesley Logan 20:03  okay to see we have had to I remember on her first attempt, two people died. Yeah. So she turned around, turn around. And then she did it again. She actually did it again. But guess what she's doing? She's creating a like retreat of some kind where you will climb with her? Oh, wow. And I was like, wow. And she's like, Yeah, are you in and I was like, probably not. So excited for you, and everyone is doing it with you, because I'm gonna go with Simone and find my own Kilimanjaro. When I'm on my own. I'm gonna say, owning the businesses we have feels like fucking climbing Kilimanjaro every day. So I'm good. Note it. I got it. Well, youBrad Crowell 20:45  know, she actually said it was not part of her bucket list. And she did it as part of a charity work to raise money for the LIVESTRONG Foundation. And people asked her what it would feel like if she didn't reach the summit. And she said, honestly, it wasn't about reaching the summit for her. It was the mindset that got her there. Like I was saying one step at a time continuing to encourage yourself, she did talk herself up, not down so many times during the climb due to self doubt. Right, and then having summitted Kilimanjaro and surmounted her negative self talk, that's why she's encouraging everyone to go find their own Kilimanjaro because it was a challenge. And it was it was probably quite scary. And you know, what a conversation we're having in your head, if you actually do doubt yourself making it to the top? Well, I just think is great, though. Because you know, and you're Kilimanjaro doesn't have to be an extra. It doesn't have to be physical. It could be, you know, Kilimanjaro, it could be weighing nice to that person who's consistently an asshole to you. You know, it could be, it could be right. Like, I said, I'm not, I'm not a parent. So I don't have to go to like PTA meetings. I don't have to go to soccer games to stay on the sidelines.Lesley Logan 21:59  We gotta dig neighbor that we have to like we do. Yeah, that's my mountain calling drought.Brad Crowell 22:04  I'm still working on that. There's,Lesley Logan 22:07  there's like, Okay, you guys, when we walk past this one house, also passes one house is the view of a building that shall remain nameless, because I envision the name of this building, burning off the building every single day. And so maybe my mountain Kilimanjaro is just not noticed these two things that I have to walk past, that might be it. Or maybe it's just like not having negative thoughts while I do it. But at any rate, find your own. Ask us later, if we found ours, that can be a question you ask. AndBrad Crowell 22:36  like I said before, you know whether it's literal Kilimanjaro or figured out if you've got something that you are going to tackle, and you want us to cheer you on. Tell us Yeah,Lesley Logan 22:46  well, and also you can send us your wins when you do because we have an FY EPS but and I just want to reiterate, she was focusing on overcoming her negative thoughts to get her up there to talk herself up, like you said, it's okay to talk yourself up.Brad Crowell 22:59  Yeah,Lesley Logan 23:00  I think it's really important. And also, like Brad said, we want to cheer you on. If you don't ask us to cheer you on. That's totally fine, not offended. But tell people in your life, this is really important to me, and how you react to me doing this thing is also really important to me, you know, Brené Brown, as the person who taught me the people whose opinions of you matter, they should know that their opinions of you matter. Yeah. And so if you have someone in your life who you love, and whenever you tell him, you're doing something that scares you, they kind of shit around it, then you need to have a talk with them. It says, When I tell you what I'm excited about. And we you respond with doubt. It's really hard for me to stay excited. So I would really love it. If when I say something that I'm excited about that you just say I'm excited for you. And then take your fears and talk to your other friend about it.Brad Crowell 23:53  Or another time not in the moment. Yeah,Lesley Logan 23:55  yeah. Yeah. Cuz, you know, they think they're being curious, but their curiosity is actuallyBrad Crowell 24:00  negative shanks. Yeah, um, youLesley Logan 24:04  know, Dr. Pepper, no, Sprite. We don't do those things around here. Okay, let's go to those be. At least a Dr. Pepper is better. I still haven't had you know, I haven't had soda since I was 18 years old.Brad Crowell 24:16  Oh, really? Yeah. That's impressive. I've definitely had soda since I know it's terrible for you. Yeah. I mean, I don't have it all the time.Lesley Logan 24:23  It doesn't even matter. It's like it clears off battery acid from a car you should not be drinking.Brad Crowell 24:30  This is true. It does that. All right. Finally let's talk about those be it action items what bold, executable intrinsic or targeted action items. Can we take away from your combo with Simone can Nago, she said that she uses affirmations on a daily basis. And then she told a really hilarious story about her daughter being like, I have nothing to be happy about today. And she was like, Oh, yes, you do. Let me tell you how. And then her daughter was like, I'm never telling that to you again. ButLesley Logan 24:56  you know what? Simone just was that guys That's an example of the response people in your life should be saying to you, yeah, when you're like, nobody likes me, you should have someone's like, Nope, this person, this person, this person, this person, last person. Somebody goes, oh my god, it's so true. No one likes you. Yeah, right.Brad Crowell 25:13  So right, everyone hates you.Lesley Logan 25:16  Yeah, you do. So did you know that this person also?Brad Crowell 25:22  She said, it's important that we constantly ask ourselves what we want, so that you can get what you need. Right? Because I think, you know, the two of you were talking about effectively, just doing life and being sucked into the whirlwind that I like to call the whirlwind. And there are times where we feel like we need to make a change to tackle something big, right? I've often over the years, I've had moments in my life where I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna have to kick it into high gear, right? And and that might be for the next six months, or whatever it might be right? And she said, we kind of forget to change it up. We just get stuck in this thing. So whether that is oh,Lesley Logan 26:08  you You mean, you're like the truck that just gets the press accelerate just floors it and yeah.Brad Crowell 26:16  lived at one of those trucks. The Tesla, the Tesla truck,Lesley Logan 26:20  they're called something else. They're called. This has happened, guys. So obviously, you're gonna know when we did this, but it's called theBrad Crowell 26:26  cyber truck, the cyber, the cyber truck has flopped and just issued a recall shocking, because the accelerator literally gets stuck to the floor, and then it's stuck in high that is accelerated.Lesley Logan 26:37  That's a lot of you, you guys get stuck. You like you.Brad Crowell 26:41  I mean, me too. I've done it too. Right. ILesley Logan 26:42  do it all the time. But you're also Enneagram three. So that's true. But like, it's you forget that you also have another gear, which is called Slow? Well, it's not.Brad Crowell 26:52  It's not just that. But we when we kick into high gear, there's one consistent common factor that suffers and that is yourself. Because you're like, I don't need to deal with me right now I need to focus on this thing. I need to focus on my family, my daughter, my, you know, my partner is going through law school, whatever it is, right? And you're, you're shifting everything around to support this cause. And, you know, there comes a time where you're like, hey, wait a minute, you know, what do I actually want? Because it might be that the two of you or on a team or you know, there is this thing where you're consistently sacrificing, but you also need to make sure you're taking care of yourself. And if you don't ask yourself, what do I want? How are you going to know? Yeah, I thought about this when I was listening to the interview, you know, and I love running our company and traveling and all the things. And I asked myself, What do I want? And I like literally the answer was instantaneous sleep. You know, and so it's like, okay, maybe I need to be more intentional about sleep. And then I won't. That won't be my guttural responseLesley Logan 28:01  on something else. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna want something else. Yeah. So anyway,Brad Crowell 28:05  ask yourself, what do you want? Right? And, yeah,Unknown Speaker 28:10  well, I'll go Yeah, go.Lesley Logan 28:12  So she said, respect your reflections. We need to learn to love the woman or the man or the person in the mirror, likeBrad Crowell 28:21  the reflection asleep.Lesley Logan 28:22  Know what I need to know. No, no, no, no. Literal reflections, your literal reflection,Brad Crowell 28:28  okay, literal reflection.Lesley Logan 28:29  So she wants us to be who we are. So that when we look in the mirror, the first thing we see is what we actually love. And that's us. It's ourselves. And the truth is, is that so many of us are comparing ourselves to others. When we're actually looking in the mirror. We're comparing ourselves, you know, to like something unattainable, and then we're nitpicking. And really, it's just like, get it just focus. Like yeah, to love the person. And you're always loveSpeaker 1 28:52  the one you're with. Yeah. Love the one. You wasted something earlier that that was a better so I love the one we're looking at in the mirror. Yeah, no,Lesley Logan 29:01  that was not the song either. There was another song earlier. I don't remember. It'll come back. Oh, you said we don't get as we want. We ate and I was like, we can't I hate that song. When you get it. You can't always get what you want on. And he just keeps repeating that, but IBrad Crowell 29:19  just my he gave meLesley Logan 29:24  like, oh my god, what was that music? Good. Anyway, Simone, You're fabulous. Thank you for teaching us all. Oh, I missed this part.Brad Crowell 29:32  This is important. This is important. Yeah.Lesley Logan 29:34  She said that 20% of people are born with confidence. So 80% of us have to work with it. If you're listening to this, and you're like, I'm struggle with confidence. It's because you're probably part of the 80%. And so we'll work on it. And Simone with her Mount Kilimanjaro situation, that's how she was able to she committed to something and she did the thing. And she that'sBrad Crowell 29:53  coaches, women on Khan competence.Lesley Logan 29:55  She literally said when were with her last week, she said women instead of asking for a raise, we'll just look for another job. And really, competence comes like ask for the raise, even if you don't get it like the girl I've talked about earlier about Elevate, she like went in there and she asked what she wanted. And what I saw when I saw the video telling me about it was she was so fucking competent because she did the thing, right? The things that scare us or the things like put us in a confident bucket. So just go do that. All right, Melissa Logan, and I'm Brad Crawley. Thank you so much for listening, or watching or how are reading this? I don't know how you're doing it. Anyway, we're so grateful for you. This is due here. This is episode 365 Holy cow, holy cow. We're here because of you. And if it's your first time, we're still here because of you. Well, thank you so much for being here. Make sure you share this podcast with a friend who needs to hear it. And until next time, be it Titus yet bye for now. That's all I got for this episode of the bee until you see a podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the beat pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it help us and others be it till you see it. Have an awesome day. Be it till you see it is a production of the bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read another episode you can text us at plus 1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram at Viet pot. It'sBrad Crowell 31:31  written filmed and recorded by your host Leslie Logan and me Brad Crowell.Lesley Logan 31:36  It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team had to send you Dotco ourBrad Crowell 31:41  theme music is by Ellie at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist John Franco children.Lesley Logan 31:47  Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.Brad Crowell 31:51  Awesome Angelina Hurco for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meredith rude for keeping us all on point and on top.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/be-it-till-you-see-it/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

On episode 5 of the Brushback with JP Ricciardi - JP welcomes legendary reliever John Franco! JP and John discuss the current state of MLB pitching, Franco's not yet being inducted in the Baseball Hall of Fame, 9/11 and what being with the Mets during that tragedy means to him to this day. Plus classic pranks Franco pulled on Mets PR Executive, Jay Horwitz. JP also gives his report card on all 30 MLB teams for the first month of the 2024 season! SUBSCRIBE to our YouTube Channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@BrushbackwithJPRicciardi Follow JP here: X: https://twitter.com/RicciardiJP Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ricciardijp Follow John Arezzi here: X: https://twitter.com/johnarezzi Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnarezzi HOST - JP RICCIARDI CO-HOST - JOHN AREZZI CREATIVE DIRECTOR - MARSH EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS - MARK MILLIERE, JOHN AREZZI COPYRIGHT: 2024 THE BRUSHBACK WITH JP RICCIARDI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

EPISODE 311. Happy Easter everyone! What better way to kick off the MLB season than with the all time MLB lefties saves leader, John Franco? John joins us for his now second appearance on the show to talk about his upbringing, career in the MLB, and we even talk about how he got absolutely SNUBBED on the Hall Of Fame Ballot. We are also joined by Carmine Gangone of the Italian American Baseball Foundation. Be sure to follow John Franco here https://www.instagram.com/johnfranconymets Follow IABF here https://www.instagram.com/iabf_official Follow Sabino here https://instagram.com/sabinocurcio Follow Rocco here https://instagram.com/rocloguercio To shop our merchandise, visit https://www.growingupitaliangui.com Be sure to check our Instagram https://www.instagram.com/growingupitalian As always, if you enjoyed this video, be sure to drop a Like, Comment and please SUBSCRIBE. Grazie a tutti!

As Spring Training is upon us, Garth Brooks and Jay reminisce over their time together back in the spring of 2000 when Garth Brooks joined the Mets for camp. Garth shares his stories of playing with Todd Zeile, Mike Piazza and John Franco, getting his 2000 NL Championship ring, keeping in contect with players like Robin Ventura and much more in this very surprising Mets alumni episode! To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Former Mets pitcher John Franco joins Tiki and Sal to talk about the Mets and what they should do as the trade deadline approaches, chances of him becoming a coach or manager and Diaz's injury.

Sports Illustrated has released a new Mets book chronicling the team's six decades. In this conversation with Jay Horwitz, recorded at the Mets Hall of Fame and Museum at Citi Field, John reflects on his career with the Mets and how it felt to play for the team he grew up a fan of. John talks about getting traded to the team and thinking he was a Yankee initially, his friendship with Al Leiter and all the pranks he has pulled on Jay over the years. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean tells an amazing story about his 100th Home Run off John Franco and why he always got 5-hit games at Shea Stadium. Plus, we tracked down our Superfan and break down what Long Island old ladies say when people start getting tan.  Full TV Broadcast Here: https://youtu.be/OSdnaN6apJMSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hour 2: Boomer is filling out a bracket and is taking Rick Pitino and Iona. Pitino is rumored for both St. Johns and Georgetown. Gio said John Franco has an amazing retired life. He follows him on social media and he goes on a bunch of vacations. Jerry returns for an update but first Boomer updates us on Mike White's deal with the Dolphins. Jason Kelce is returning for another season with the Eagles. Jerry goes around the NBA from last night and there was a scrum in the Bucks/Kings game. The first four of the NCAA tournament starts tonight as does the NIT. Buck Showalter talked about missing media guides. The Mets put 5 players on the cover of their media guide. Jerry has play by play from various World Baseball Classic games. Brandon Nimmo is more interested in winning a World Series than playing in the World Baseball Classic. In the final segment of the hour, we played audio of Ian Rapoport from this morning saying there is no deal with the Jets and Aaron Rodgers. Boomer said Rodgers' contract is unique and complicated and takes some time to get through. Where else could he go?

Hour 1: Boomer is frustrated that he's been telling you Aaron Rodgers to the Jets is 100% happening and nobody has reported on that. Meanwhile, Trey Wingo tweeted it's a done deal and everyone has been talking about that. Boomer said everything has already been worked out, it's just not announced yet. All of the insiders are saying they aren't sure yet, Boomer said he is sure. Boomer said Rodgers' contract is very complicated, which is why it's taking so long. But it is getting done. Jerry is here for an update but first we talk about how much March sucks. We then debate which is the worst month of the year and which is the best. Rich Eisen has no interest in Ryan Tannehill if the Rodgers signing doesn't happen. Jerry goes around the NFL with all of the signings yesterday. Ja Morant checked into a counseling center after brandishing a gun in a strip club. Jerry has audio from a dust up in the Bucks/Kings game last night. Adam Schein had Gary Cohen on his radio show and totally kissed him. In the final segment of the hour, a radio host in Syracuse was fired for being too negative about Syracuse basketball.  Hour 2: Boomer is filling out a bracket and is taking Rick Pitino and Iona. Pitino is rumored for both St. Johns and Georgetown. Gio said John Franco has an amazing retired life. He follows him on social media and he goes on a bunch of vacations. Jerry returns for an update but first Boomer updates us on Mike White's deal with the Dolphins. Jason Kelce is returning for another season with the Eagles. Jerry goes around the NBA from last night and there was a scrum in the Bucks/Kings game. The first four of the NCAA tournament starts tonight as does the NIT. Buck Showalter talked about missing media guides. The Mets put 5 players on the cover of their media guide. Jerry has play by play from various World Baseball Classic games. Brandon Nimmo is more interested in winning a World Series than playing in the World Baseball Classic. In the final segment of the hour, we played audio of Ian Rapoport from this morning saying there is no deal with the Jets and Aaron Rodgers. Boomer said Rodgers' contract is unique and complicated and takes some time to get through. Where else could he go? Hour 3: During the break, Gio's former partner and fellow CBS talk show host, Brian Jones, has been texting about Lamar Jackson's contract. Boomer doesn't know why people get ‘jacked up' about Lamar Jackson and his contract. Jerry returns for an update but first Boomer tells us March 18th is an NFL anniversary of something that sent shockwaves through the NFL: Deshaun Watson's signing with the Cleveland Browns. Jerry said the salary cap is total crap. Breaking news from Adam Schefter, as WR Allen Lazard is said to be talking to the Jets about joining Aaron Rodgers. Jerry has audio of the Hugh Grant interview at the Oscars. People said he was rude to Ashley Graham. There was an 8 inning combined perfect game in the World Baseball Classic. In the final segment of the hour, CBS Sports Host Brian Jones calls in to argue about the Lamar Jackson situation in Baltimore.  Hour 4: A woman calls in about the SV Bank situation and she blames the communists for it. She blamed Trump and bitcoin or something. She does love the job Biden is doing. Gio wonders if Dov Kleiman is a real person. He's some sort of NFL aggregator on Twitter. Jerry returns for an update but first, Rutgers Head Basketball Coach Steve Pikiell calls in to talk about the NIT which starts tonight. Jerry does an update and we get a ‘deez nuts' call. In the final segment of the show, it looks like WR Allen Lazard could be coming to the Jets.

Adversity Podcast Episode #10 Hosted by: Mambo & Josh Purser Special Guest: John Franco (Owner & Operator of Colosseum Bootcamp Bodybuilding Gym in Oxnard) Adversity: A state or instance of serious or continued difficulty or misfortune. In life adversity is as much apart of the journey as victories, this podcast is a collection of real stories from real people. Their story of how they navigated the tough runs in the journey and how they became stronger. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/persistence-culture-podcast/support

On this Wednesday edition of Sid & Friends in the Morning, Sid runs through all the facts and information you need to finally understand exactly what happened to Sam Bankman-Fried and his cryptocurrency company FTX. Basically, the premise is simple. Bankman-Fried stole a lot of money and did with it what he pleased, but it still baffles us as to why he thought he could get away with it. When it comes down to it, anybody who engages in this level of fraud is a complete and utter sociopath with no regard for society. I guess we can find solace in the fact that he's most likely spending the rest of his life in jail, but there's a lot of people out there that might never financially recover thanks to Bankman-Fried's mistakes. In other news of the day, Title 42 is set to expire in about a week, which is sure to send waves of chaos across the southern border, it's been a full ten years since the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, and New York City Mayor Eric Adams announced an expansion of seats for preschool students with special needs across all five boroughs. Ron Insana, Jason Trennert, Peter King and John Franco join the program, and as always make sure you don't miss out on the Wednesday installment of Lidia Reports with Lidia Curanaj. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Former MLB Pitcher and New York Met John Franco joins Sid and Friends to talk about the Mets and MLB free agency. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Al Leiter, John Franco and Todd Zeile join Jay Horwitz at Engine 55 in Lower Manhattan for a very special episode of the Amazin' Mets Alumni Podcast. These members of the 2001 Mets discuss the team's tradition of visiting a firehouse in New York for the past 21 years, an annual visit they vowed to maintain following the tragedy of September 11. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Al Leiter, John Franco and Todd Zeile join Jay Horwitz at Engine 55 in Lower Manhattan for a very special episode of the Amazin' Mets Alumni Podcast. These members of the 2001 Mets discuss the team's tradition of visiting a firehouse in New York for the past 21 years, an annual visit they vowed to maintain following the tragedy of September 11. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On a special live episode of the “Amazin' But True” podcast with Jake Brown and Nelson Figueroa, the guys host the show from EBBS Brewing Co. outside Citi Field following Old Timers' Day Saturday. They discuss how special Old Timers' Day was, seeing Mets greats all together and the great job by Mets ownership to make it all happen. They then talk about the Mets win, the tight NL East standings, the bullpen and Buck Showalter making the magic happen. Fans from the audience then answer Mets trivia questions for prizes. They close the show playing interviews with Billy Wagner, John Franco, Tim Teufel, Glendon Rusch and Dwight Gooden. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the 193rd episode of You Know I'm Right, Nick Durst and Joe Calabrese are joined by Staten Island FerryHawks Executive Vice President/General Manager Gary Perone for an exclusive interview to discuss: - Rickey Henderson ruining his day when he was 12 - Brooklyn guy born and raised before moving to Staten Island as an adult. Favorite places to eat growing up? - Went to St. Francis College. What did he study? - Working for the MTA - Brooklyn Cyclones launch in 2000 and he joins the team as Director of Community Relations Marketing/Sales. How did that come about? - Working from 2004 - 2006 as the Assistant General Manager of the Staten Island Yankees - 2007 return to the Cyclones and coming up with great promotions - 2007 become an Associate Professional Scout for the Mets - 2014 became Adjunct professor at LIU Brooklyn - Founded the Borough Cup - Relationship with John Franco and former You Know I'm Right guest Craig Carton - November 2021 became the Executive VP and GM of the FerryHawks. How did it happen? - NY1's Shannan Ferry believing she should be the FerryHawks mascot - What future events could we see at the SIUH Community Park? - You Know I'm Right moment

Former MLB Pitcher John Franco joins Sid to talk about his support for 9/11 victims over the past two decades, the Mets, and he makes his case for the Baseball Hall of Fame. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this Tuesday edition of Bernie & Sid in the Morning, Sid reacts to the news that Dr. Anthony Fauci plans to retire come December of this year. What's significant about the timing of Fauci's exit? It comes right when the power may shift, assuming the midterm red wave doesn't let up, from Democrat to Republican in Congress, and Fauci's nonstop shenanigans during the pandemic might be looked into by Republicans in power. While Fauci may think that his retirement will motivate Republicans to let up on their scrutiny of him, he is strongly mistaken. Several Republicans have reacted to the news of Fauci's retirement by emphasizing that they will get to the bottom of what exactly went down regarding the inception of COVID-19 and what the NIH was keeping from the American people to try and save their own asses. This is good riddance, Dr. Fauci, but it is not goodbye. In other news of the day, Sid previews all the local and National primary elections set to ensue today, New York City Mayor Eric Adams continues to berate Texas Governor Greg Abbott for sending illegal migrants to NYC via coach bus, the Mayor also makes a surprising move in endorsing mostly moderate candidates in upcoming elections, Governor Kathy Hochul announces the end to COVID-19 rules in New York schools, and Liz Cheney continues to spend her fifteen minutes of fame bashing former President Donald Trump until she's blue in the face. Frank Morano, Bo Dietl, Miranda Devine and John Franco join the program, and as always make sure you don't miss out on Lidia Reports or another special "Beat Sid" version of The Peerless Boilers Beat Bernie Contest. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the latest episode of the “Amazin' But True” podcast with Jake Brown and Nelson Figueroa, the guys open the show talking about the Mets' thrilling 10-9 win Sunday in Philadelphia. They discuss Mark Canha's two clutch home runs, Nate Fisher's improbable MLB debut, the Mets continuing to be resilient and look ahead to the Subway Series. Mets'd Up podcast hosts Marc Luino and James Schiano then join Jake and Figgie for a crossover pod. They talk about the series win in Philly, Canha, hype around this team, Fisher's cool story, Mets-Yankees in the Bronx and players they are most excited to see Saturday in the Old Timers' Day game. The guys close the show playing voicemails from Mets Old Timers playing in Saturday's game, including John Franco, Ed Lynch and Glendon Rusch, explaining why they are pumped for the game and what hitters they want to face. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Reds reliever joined Bob Trumpy on Sports Talk from 1986 spring training.

Reds drop game 1 vs the Phillies with Mike Minor suffering yet another loss. Lance takes you calls and reaction; an Extra Innings Extra with Bob Trumpy and John Franco from 1986; also an update from the Western and Southern Open.

Hour 2 - The guys are joined by three legends in New York Baseball; Joe Torre, Tino Martinez and John Franco.

Mets Legend John Franco joins TNT to give us a little insight to the Mets-Yankees rivalry and what he thinks about the Mets at the All Star Break this season.

Hour 2: Craig is thinking of bringing back and old tradition, but is unsure if he wants to invite Evan. The boys wonder if Aliens exist, and if they are ever coming to Earth. And Craig and Evan discuss the lengths players go to get a number from a teammate. 

Kayvon Thibeadeaux may have moved the bar to a new height with the amount of money he gave up for his jersey number. And John Franco checked in when he heard the boys talking about him on the radio. And will Evan get invited to the man dinner???

JJ opens with the Nets' loss to the Bucks that gave us the best two words in sports: Game 7. He explains why Brooklyn will need another Game 5 performance from Durant to win the series. Then JJ discusses the Yankees' sweep of the Blue Jays (8:13), the Mets' situation with deGrom (14:01), and the Islanders going down 2-1 to the Lightning (17:55) before reacting to some listener voicemails (22:14). Next, he chats with Mets legend John Franco about Spider Tack, Jacob deGrom, and his favorite pizza spot in the city (38:55). Finally, JJ closes it out with some U.S. Open and NBA betting tips with Jared Smith (57:44). We always want to hear from you! Leave JJ a message on the Listener Line at 917-382-1151. Host: John Jastremski Guests: John Franco and Jared Smith Producer: Steve Ceruti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The iconic Jay Horwitz, current VP for Alumni Relations and Team Historian shares an insider's perspective on working in Public Relations for past 39 plus years for the New York Mets. Throughout his career, he became close with individuals such as John Franco, Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Jacob DeGrom (who wrote the forward in Jay's new book, Mr. Met, released on May 19, 2020) and of course, David Wright and Team Peri member, Nelson Figueroa. His stories of his humble beginnings and comic antics will keep you laughing, and you will feel the spirit of the NY Mets alive and coming at you through Jay. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

#046: Denise talks with an old friend about living with the knowledge that his terminal brain cancer could return at any time.  This is part of the series on Reducing Overwhelm, and how perspective about our mortality is a blessing that focuses our days and makes them more meaningful and productive.  Denise and John talk about their near-death experiences, and lessons that helped them upgrade their lives. They share tips for living each day with meaning and shifting stressful thoughts as they occur.  Authors Referenced:  - Dr. Joe Dispenza (You are the Placebo) - Power vs. Force (Dr. Hawkins) - Byron Katie (Loving what is) - Amy Banks (Wired to Connect) - Ekhart Tolle: (Power of Now) - Dr. Rick Hanson (Buddha's Brain) Programs referenced (www.work-lifebrilliance.com) - Upgrade Your Thoughts, Upgrade Your Life - Reduce Overwhelm & Boost Productivity - Work-Life Brilliance Academy & Masters Academy