Podcasts about Daydream

Going to do a little grab-bagging up front and then we'll welcome back Megan Fox for a big update in the Bricks and Minifigs/Reckless Ben LEGO saga...from there we'll segway into the dreamy part of this evening's program. I read a pair of articles recently that pulled a lot of thoughts together for a show—one that I hope taps into the collective memories and experiences of the audience. An interesting study on daydreaming lead me to a coma dream case in which a girl lives a whole second life while she was "away", and when she awoke, she was desperate to find her three children that she cared for in the other world. I'd like to spin this all into a topic of not only dreams that felt real, but how we construct reality itself...and how much, if at all, are these experiences tied to something much more real than we can imagine? Unleash Your Brain w/ Keto Brainz Nootropic 15% OFF w/ code JUNE: https://tinyurl.com/2cess6y7 Every purchase enters you into this month's HUGE Product RAFFLE! E-Mail me for FREE SAMPLES of KB or Farmalogical Bone Broth! Sponsor Monthly for VIP Perks: https://www.quitefrankly.tv/sponsor One-Time Tip: http://www.paypal.me/QuiteFranklyLive Quite Frankly Amazon Storefront: https://amazon.com/shop/quitefranklyofficial Official Coffee & Mugs: https://www.coffeerevolution.shop/category/quite-frankly Official QF MERCH: https://tinyurl.com/f3kbkr4s Gold & Silver: https://quitefrankly.gold Send Holiday cards, Letters, and other small gifts, to the Quite Frankly P.O. Box! Quite Frankly 222 Purchase Street, #105 Rye, NY, 10580 Tip in Crypto: BTC: bc1q97w5aazjf7pjjl50n42kdmj9pqyn5zndwh3lng XRP: rnES2vQV6d2jLpavzf7y97XD4AfK1MjePu Quite Frankly Socials: Twitter/X: @QuiteFranklyTV Instagram: @QuiteFranklyOfficial Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/xPu7YEXXRY Official Forum: https://tinyurl.com/k89p88s8 Telegram: https://t.me/quitefranklytv Streaming Live On: QuiteFrankly.tv (Powered by Foxhole) Youtube: https://tinyurl.com/yc2cn395 Rumble: https://tinyurl.com/yeytwwyz Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/quitefranklylive Audio On Demand: Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/yk4yfdsa iTunes: http://apple.co/2dMURMq

In this episode, Howard Farran sits down with Shreyas Parab, co-founder and CEO of DayDream, an AI-powered dental revenue cycle company serving hundreds of practices nationwide. Shreyas opens up about growing up in his mother's dental practice — and how watching real inefficiencies play out every day ultimately inspired him to build what she never had. The conversation is candid and wide-ranging, covering what Shreyas looks at first when assessing the true health of a practice, where dentists are overcomplicating things that have simple fixes, and where AI in dentistry is genuinely overhyped right now. He also shares what he would do differently if he could design a dental practice from scratch today — a question that draws on both his insider upbringing and his outsider perspective as a tech founder building solutions for the profession.   Episode #1703 : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran, Howard sits down with Shreyas Parab — co-founder and CEO of DayDream — who grew up in his mother's dental practice, saw the broken systems up close, and built the solution he wished they'd had. From spotting hidden revenue leaks to cutting through the AI hype, Shreyas brings a refreshingly honest outside perspective on what's really holding dental practices back.

This is a Grave Talks CLASSIC EPISODE!Tucked away in Modesto, Daydreams and Nightmares looks like an ordinary costume shop on the surface. But behind the masks, makeup, and props lies a building with a far darker past.Long before it became a destination for costumes and curiosities, the property served as a funeral home—a place filled with grief, loss, and death. According to those familiar with the building's history, human ashes were even scattered on the grounds before the property changed hands. Many believe the spirits connected to that history never truly left.Employees, customers, and even celebrity visitors have reported eerie encounters ranging from unexplained noises and shadow figures to overwhelming feelings of being watched. Some wonder if the costumes themselves somehow amplify the strange energy inside the building, turning the shop into an unexpected doorway between worlds.We explore the chilling paranormal history of Daydreams and Nightmares and the lingering spirits said to still roam its haunted halls.#TheGraveTalks #HauntedShop #Paranormal #GhostStories #HauntedLocation #Supernatural #HauntedHistory #ParanormalPodcast #ParanormalActivity #GhostlyActivity #Portal #Ghosts Love real ghost stories? Want even more?Become a supporter and unlock exclusive extras, ad-free episodes, and advanced access:

it's okay some of my best friends are Watto Listen to an extra episode a week for $5, or all our bonus episodes for $7 or $10 at www.patreon.com/tgofv.

Watch and Listen to The Dean Von Music Podcast Show, Live out of Las Vegas, Nevada Every Thursday Night at 6PM PST Music Podcast from around the worldMy next guest is bringing back a style of music that's been “dying on the vine” for the past 30 years — and it's time to revive it!

What if the biggest revenue leak in your practice isn't production… but what happens after treatment is completed? In this episode of the Raving Patients Podcast, Dr. Len Tau sits down with returning guest Shreyas Parab, co-founder and CEO of Daydream, to unpack how AI is transforming dental billing, insurance verification, and revenue cycle management. Shreyas shares how growing up in his mother's dental practice shaped his understanding of the administrative burdens that silently drain profitability and damage the patient experience. From insurance verification mistakes to denied claims and surprise patient bills, this conversation dives deep into why outdated systems are costing practices far more than they realize. Dr. Len and Shreyas also explore the future of AI in dentistry, where it's already succeeding, where it's overhyped, and how practices can use automation to improve efficiency without sacrificing patient relationships. If you've ever struggled with insurance headaches, front desk overwhelm, staffing challenges, or negative reviews tied to billing confusion, this episode offers a practical look at how the future of dental administration is evolving. What You'll Learn Why billing and insurance issues are one of the biggest causes of negative dental reviews How inaccurate insurance verification impacts patient trust and profitability The difference between AI that enhances a practice and AI that replaces human connection Where AI is already thriving in dentistry today Why administrative overload hurts both patients and team culture How automation can improve claim follow-up and reduce denials The future of front desk staffing and dental operations Why patient experience still matters more than technology How Daydream uses AI and human oversight together for RCM accuracy What dentists should focus on if they want more freedom and less operational stress — Key Takeaways 00:44 Introduction and Sponsor Message 02:00 Shreyas Reflects on Supercharge Your Dental Practice 04:23 Growing Up in a Dental Practice 09:30 AI's Rapid Growth in Dentistry 13:40 The Reality of AI Receptionists 17:05 How Billing Problems Hurt Patient Experience 19:46 The Hidden Cost of Insurance Verification Errors 24:45 What Dental RCM Looks Like With and Without AI 27:18 Can AI Make Mistakes? 30:15 Reducing Denials and Increasing Profitability 32:20 Which Practices Benefit Most From Daydream 35:17 The Future of the Dental Front Desk 36:55 Why Better Systems Give Dentists More Freedom 38:47 How to Learn More About Daydream 39:10 Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks   — Connect with Shreyas Website: Daydream Dental Free Dental Billing Resource: Dental Billing 101 AI Google Review Analysis Tool: Daydream Google Review Analyzer   — Learn proven dental marketing strategies and online reputation management techniques at DrLenTau.com.   This podcast is sponsored by Dental Intelligence. Learn more here.   This podcast is sponsored by CallRail, call tracking & lead conversion software for dentists. Find out more here.   Raving Patients Podcast is your go-to place for the latest and best dental marketing strategies that will help you skyrocket your practice. Follow us for more!  

A lot happened at the NFL owner's meeting and Ryan's got all of it. Nashville officially gets Super Bowl 64 in 2030. Minnesota gets the 2028 draft — good news for Packer fans within driving distance. International games are expanding to 10 per season starting in 2027, with Goodell eyeing 16 eventually. Ryan's cautiously okay with the expansion until someone says Japan, at which point he's fully on board and also realizes he'll never actually go. The Bears got a special briefing on their stadium situation, because the other 31 owners apparently need a progress report on why Chicago still doesn't know where their team plays. The only two viable options remain Arlington Heights and Hammond, Indiana — meaning the days of Bears fans talking trash about small-town Wisconsin are officially over. Ryan has thoughts. Also: Rashee Rice is in jail after a marijuana violation voided his deferred sentencing. Josh Sweat is unhappy in Arizona, Ganon is in Green Bay, and Ryan does the math on what a third-round pick for a number-three edge rusher might look like. He's making that call. And finally — the Packers briefly discussed bringing Davante Adams back before it went nowhere, and they signed Vanderbilt DB Marlon Jones, who beat stage-three Hodgkin's lymphoma last year and is the feel-good story of the offseason.

A lot happened at the NFL owner's meeting and Ryan's got all of it. Nashville officially gets Super Bowl 64 in 2030. Minnesota gets the 2028 draft — good news for Packer fans within driving distance. International games are expanding to 10 per season starting in 2027, with Goodell eyeing 16 eventually. Ryan's cautiously okay with the expansion until someone says Japan, at which point he's fully on board and also realizes he'll never actually go. The Bears got a special briefing on their stadium situation, because the other 31 owners apparently need a progress report on why Chicago still doesn't know where their team plays. The only two viable options remain Arlington Heights and Hammond, Indiana — meaning the days of Bears fans talking trash about small-town Wisconsin are officially over. Ryan has thoughts. Also: Rashee Rice is in jail after a marijuana violation voided his deferred sentencing. Josh Sweat is unhappy in Arizona, Ganon is in Green Bay, and Ryan does the math on what a third-round pick for a number-three edge rusher might look like. He's making that call. And finally — the Packers briefly discussed bringing Davante Adams back before it went nowhere, and they signed Vanderbilt DB Marlon Jones, who beat stage-three Hodgkin's lymphoma last year and is the feel-good story of the offseason.

01) Lost Knowledge - Supernatural (Lost Knowledge Extended Rework) [ LOST KOMMUNICATION RECORDS Ltd ] 02) Exolight & Suncatcher - The Journey (Extended Mix) [ AVA White ] 03) Sean Tyas & Peter Steele - Atlantis (Extended Mix) [ Regenerate Records ] 04) Darren Porter - Millennium Memories (Extended Mix) [REASON II RISE MUSIC] 05) Josh Dirschka - Waves And Particles (Extended Mix) [ CRTN Trance ] 06) Lee Hanlon - Between the Lines (Extended Mix) [ Juiced Digital Recordings ] 07) Southside - Arpstorm (Emmy Skyer Extended Remix) 08) MARTZ Moreno - Horus (Original Mix) [ CRTN Trance ] 09) Shelby Burnout & Edith Crosby - Saignee De L'Ame (Original Mix) [ Yeiskomp Records ] 10) Sneijder - They Won't Keep Us Down (Extended Mix) [ΛFTERDΛRK]

Why does music so often – and effectively – transport us into vivid memories, imagined futures, or entirely different emotional worlds? Dr. Margulis has spent years studying the fascinating phenomenon of musical daydreams. She joins us to discuss her brand new book on the topic, and what these deeply human experiences reveal about attention, creativity, emotion, and connection in today's distracted world. Links and notes related to this episode can be found at https://mpetersonmusic.com/podcast/episode235 Connect with us: Newsletter: https://mpetersonmusic.com/subscribe Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EnhanceLifeMusic/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/enhancelifemusic/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpetersonpiano/ X: https://twitter.com/musicenhances YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@enhancelifemusic Sponsorship information: https://mpetersonmusic.com/podcast/sponsor Leave us a review on Podchaser.com! https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/enhance-life-with-music-909096 In-episode promo: JAMBAR https://jambar.com/

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Investors Are Targeting Oklahoma Real Estate in 2026" on Thursday, May 28th at 8:00 PM Eastern Time. Keith describes how a plain long-term single-family rental can quietly build wealth in ways most investors overlook, using his "GRE Duck" framework to illustrate returns beyond simple cash flow. He also emphasizes the passive income potential of buy-and-hold properties, detailing factors like: appreciation, principal paydown, tax benefits, and inflation. An Oklahoma-based investor and provider then joins Keith to introduce Oklahoma City and nearby markets as emerging options for cash flow–focused buyers.  Together, they explore why this lesser-known market and a straightforward buy-and-hold approach may deserve a closer look from investors. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/606 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the real estate duck is quacking. Learn what that's all about. See how you could expect to profit $2,500 every month just from a normal long term rental. Then the most important message that I have to tell you in years. And finally, we explore a market where new build single family rentals cost $145,000 all today on get rich, education, flock homes helps multi family owners exit the operator grind, whether it's your six Plex or a 50 unit apartment through a 721 exchange. This defers your capital gains tax. It's a strategy long used by institutions. Now you can swap tenants and toilets for passive income and zero management request your initial valuation, see if your property qualifies. At flock homes.com/gre that's F, L, O, C, K, homes.com/g, R, E,   Speaker 1  1:07   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:23   Welcome to GRE from Hudson, Colorado to Hudson, New York and across 188 world nations. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education with perspective every week that you won't hear from the average slack jawed finance talking head. Just a few weeks ago, it was announced that rent payments will now factor into credit scores. Yes, I suppose that now tenants can say, See, my rent is not like throwing money away. I'm investing in my FICO score. This is good news for landlords. It can be good news for tenants too, actually, and I think it's just good for society that being accountable and making timely rent payments get tracked and can be rewarded. Yes, the news is that weeks ago, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are allowing rent and utility payments to be included in credit reports that are factored into eventual mortgage approvals. It is good that your tenant is informed of this, and therefore they'll be more incentivized to pay you the rent on time. So yes, rent is now a credit builder and hmm, does this mean that America finally admitted that shelter is more important than your tenant's Banana Republic Visa card? This is something that should have been done a long time ago now. This also helps in the rent to own strategy, if you ever employ that with a tenant. Yeah, the rent to own strategy. That's where a tenant, they rent a home from you today, with the option to buy it from you later at a pre agreed price. It's basically a hybrid between renting and buying. And the advantage is you can sell your rental at a greater profit than you could otherwise, when you employ that and the reason that having rent payments be on a credit report now gives you some assurance that your tenants will improve their credit scores enough to qualify for a mortgage and actually buy your rental. So that's always an exit option for you the rent to own strategy benefiting too from this change. Now let me tell you about the GRE duck, because this duck is quacking, making some noise, and we talk about what you might think of as a more base investment strategy. And this might be your base investment strategy. It is just simple long term buy and hold investing. Some people mistakenly think that to be a big profiteer in real estate, that it takes a lot of time and money, or they think that you've got to flip a property or wholesale or do rent to own plans with your tenant, like I just mentioned, or that you have to house hack. You don't have to do any of that heavy hands on stuff. You can be highly profitable without opening up some active business inside your property, like an assisted living home or doing some co living arrangement that you self manage, or doing short term rentals. No, you don't have to do any of that. No sledge hammer required. Let's talk about the GRE duck and how normal long term rentals are super profitable. In fact, you can profit $2,500 per. Per month from just one ordinary, single family investment property, just a regular long term rental with, say, a small down payment on a 300k income property.    Keith Weinhold  5:14   Now $2,500 that might seem high to be clear, that's not the rent amount. That's not the gross. This is your net, $2,500 in total profit every month. And you know, from the outside, the uninitiated might say, Well, wait, how could one plain house really perform this? Well, all right, say that it creates $200 in monthly cash flow, your rent income, minus expenses. This only represents the part of a duck that is visible on top of the water there on the lake surface, because that's all that most people see. And it's not a decoy duck. This is the real thing, because the duck also kicks up less visible underwater returns of another $2,300 monthly. And here's how what's beneath the surface, those duck legs are paddling like they're doing CrossFit. Here's a plausible scenario. Let's just use an appreciation rate of 5% mortgage rate of 6% and say inflation is 3% Well, the first thing that the duck is furiously kicking up underwater is that erstwhile appreciation of 5% on a 300k property. This is $15,000 a year that you're benefiting, which is $1,250 per month of profit to you. Next, there's principal pay down, also known as your ROA, that return on amortization your tenant is chipping away at your loan balance for you $3,000 a year from an amortization table, that's 250 bucks a month. Then there's the tax benefits. Say the estimated depreciable value is 240k after land divide that by 27 and a half years for your depreciation schedule, that is an $8,700 a year deduction. If you're in a 25% tax bracket, that's 2200 bucks a year, nearly another $200 a month from this alone. And there are more tax benefits than that depreciation, but that's all we're going to use for simplicity. And finally, inflation, profiting 3% inflation on your 240k loan, that is 7200 bucks a year. Yes, another 600 bucks a month. Now let's put it all together to see what the duck is doing. You've got $200 worth of cash flow, which is the visible duck, and then the rest of the paddling legs, with what they're doing underwater, it's $1,250 of appreciation, 250 in principal pay down, 200 in tax benefits, and 600 in inflation profiting. This is how your total financial benefit is $2,500 a month, and this is $30,000 of annual benefit to you. Yes, on average, you are 30k wealthier annually just from this 20% down payment on one plain, single family rental with something about as passive as it gets in real estate, that $200 per month of cash flow, that's only the part that you can see the duck gliding on the surface. And now, of course, your exact number is going to be higher or lower. Oh, maybe some downers on this is if there's a surprise insurance claim that dense things like a tree falling on your fence or a roof leak or a plumbing backup, you'll also have closing costs that you need to pay one time, a three to 4% of the loan amount when you buy so the duck could get splashed. And then this could be even better than I laid out. You might have a refinance opportunity that could increase your number. Your mortgage rate could be less than the 6% number that I use. Many builders are buying it down to under 5% for you still, and this will grow your profit number beyond $30,000 a year, and in this case, the duck would enjoy a tailwind.    Keith Weinhold  9:45   Today, you do often need a seller to provide incentives to make deals create cash flow. I did some rounding for simplicity in that example, which is really like a fresh spin on real estate pays five ways that I laid out there. So essentially, this $30,000 of annual benefit this occurs whether you show up to work or not, whether you stay in bed or not, and you're probably working on it one hour per month or less. Yes, this is simply buy and hold property. None of this flipping or wholesaling or active businesses that you need to run inside it buy and hold property that's either new build or it's turnkey renovated. I mean, it's even kind of boring, no market timing, no next hot thing, nothing loud, nothing risky, nothing Instagramable. Yet so many people miss out on all of this and why? It's because they only see that $200 visible part of the duck, and they sort of think, why bother? And then you have other investors that don't stick with it long enough to realize and capture the benefit. It could take a few years to really feel a wave of appreciation or inflation. These things are more apparent, like a duck that starts quacking and getting noticed, the GRE duck helps you understand how even a modest portfolio of four or five or 10 ordinary houses builds lasting wealth. Some people think that they need to own 100 doors worth of apartment building units or something like that in order to quit their job. That is just not true. I describe precisely how the middle class can get ahead. You could quietly out earn your day job with just a small pack of properties. This is embodied and symbolized by the GRE duck. Later today, we'll talk about the exact types of properties that are conducive to this. Let me tell you what's really interesting. Now, when we look at a five year arc, here's what's remarkable. In 2022 mortgage rates tripled and home prices rose anyway. In 2024 and 2025 the level of inventory soared and home prices rose anyway. Last year, available inventory was up about 30% from the prior year. Well now it's only up about 4% from last year, the growth in available housing supply has really slowed. It is going to be fascinating if supply shrinks this year, and this is the trend, this is the direction that the market is going, which could put accretive upward pressure on prices, but not as much as something else could. Now, sometimes here on the show, I inform you about micro real estate issues, or like the savviest strategy to achieve rent increases with your tenant, but there is a macro force that could reshape real estate markets in your purchasing power for years. In fact, I'm about to share with you this is the most important, newsworthy message that I have had in years. CPI inflation keeps rising. Jerome Powell is now newly out as Fed Chair Kevin Warsh is the new guy, and he's in there at a moment where global expectations and interest rates and currencies and housing and investor psychology could all shift at once. Now, frankly, I think it would be reckless to cut rates into the fresh inflationary shock that we have from the war in Iran now, but that's exactly what some market participants are betting on, and this time, inflation is not Coming from stimulus checks and peloton bikes, like it did during covid. At this point, we have already weathered a pandemic and lockdowns and money printing and tariffs. Now it is even more we have added in a kinetic war and severe energy shocks and supply chains that are now tied into knots, the profundity of the Iran war effects are coming two time.    Keith Weinhold  14:53   GRE podcast guest, Dr, Chris Martinson and I, you know, we are not some Doomer. Spouting baseless hyperbole to get fear clicks. This month, Chris stated that he would not be surprised to see 18 to 20% inflation in the next two to three years. Yes, you heard that right. This would make the pandemic inflation spike look like a warm up act. Remember back in 2022 that's when inflation peaked at 9.1% back then, in one year, home prices exploded about 20% rents surged 15% grocery prices went to orbital and a trip to Costco suddenly felt like financing a small boat. Well, today, things are poised to get even worse. Since the start of the Iran war, we've seen the prices of jet fuel go up 70% sulfur up 60% Brent crude has spiked 52% heating oil is also up 52% since the start of the Iran war. WTI crude oil up 48% urea also up 48% diesel up 45% gasoline up 40% all of these are not obscure commodities that are sitting in a warehouse somewhere. They are the hidden ingredients inside everyday American life. Diesel moves almost everything that you buy. Urea grows the food. Oil becomes plastics, packaging, chemicals and electronics, pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, paint, asphalt and 1000s of petroleum based consumer products. I mean, effectively, this massively raises the blood pressure of the entire economy, there is still cargo that's been sitting in or around the Persian Gulf and hasn't been able to transit the Strait of Hormuz for almost three months now. That's per Reuters. Even if a permanent peace agreement were signed today, this doesn't just all magically snap back by next week, it could take more than a year to normalize shipping routes, in inventories, in refining operations and supply chains. And in fact, it is even worse than that if the new Fed chair worsh decides to jack up interest rates. See, even that would do little to fix the supply side problem, because higher rates don't produce oil, they don't reopen shipping lanes, higher rates don't unclog ports. So this is not a time to sit in excessive cash and hope that your purchasing power survives. For a lot of investors, this is the time to accumulate more productive real assets while maintaining some prudent liquidity. You've always got to maintain some the alternative is to start eating losses. When we had two big waves of inflation in the 1970s bonds were mockingly called certificates of confiscation back then, and why? It's because investors earned 5% while inflation hit 15% the people who win in inflationary eras are really three groups, owners of productive real assets, people with pricing power and strategic long term fixed rate borrowers. It is pretty rare that I draw a line in the sand to identify a major inflection point and really encourage others to act. The last time that I did that distinctly was in November of 2021 because that's when mortgage rates were 3.1% inflation was double that at 6.2% and I urged investors to borrow big, and I showed you the evidence of when I stated that in last week's newsletter. I showed you right where that was published, and at that time it sounded aggressive, but today, those borrowers are sitting on yesterday's debt while they're earning today's inflated dollars. I mean, you have profited handsomely from that while there were others that were calling for a real estate price crash back in 2021.   Keith Weinhold  19:44   Gosh, that was the biggest appreciation rate year that we've had in a long, long time. Well, today, it's another inflection point, because you and I may be about to witness the highest inflation of our lifetimes, the prudent move is not paralysis. It is positioning. It means owning more productive real assets and ideally tying them to that long term fixed interest rate debt before the window closes again. So if you've been thinking about investing, repositioning your portfolio or making a plan before inflation accelerates again, you can speak directly to an MBA with real world real estate investing experience. It's a more crucial time than usual to book a free call with a GRE investment coach, which you can do at greinvestmentcoach.com. Windows like this do not stay open forever. It is the right time to act. In my opinion, that's the big message. The war inciting high inflation and hitting the point of no return for that. And I expect those free open slots to fill up fast, book a time again at GRE investment coach.com and plot out a plan. A lot of great shows coming up here on the GRE podcast, including two weeks from now, the number one selling personal finance author of all time, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki will be back on the show with us. As for later today, it's interesting to learn about a new market that we have not discussed in depth before, especially when it's a cash flow market. It includes new build single family rentals for $145,000 and now it's really small, but it also includes granite and LVP flooring. That's next.    Keith Weinhold  20:20   I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. What if you got your mortgage loans the same place I get mine. You sure can at Ridge lending group, NMLS, 42056, they provided GRE listeners with more loans than anyone. Because Ridge specializes in investment property. They'll help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat directly with President chailey Ridge while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com, let me ask you something, if you've worked hard to build wealth, is your money positioned to actually support your goals? A lot of accredited investors leave capital sitting in cash because it feels safe, but inflation and missed income opportunities can quietly erode its value. Freedom family investments offers freedom notes for investors seeking structured income backed by real estate. It's a straightforward approach built on real assets, not speculation and full disclosure. I'm an investor myself. What I like is that their team walks you through how it all works, so you can decide if it aligns with your portfolio and income goals. Every investment carries risk and nothing is guaranteed, but with a track record of consistent on time investor payouts, they built real credibility. Go to freedom family investments.com. To book a clarity call or text family to 66866, that's family. 266866,   Richard Advani  23:19   This is hem lanes, co founder, Dana Dunford, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  23:35   We have the chance to discuss a cash flowing real estate market today that isn't talked about very often with Richard, an income property provider in Oklahoma. And Richard, you have over a decade of experience working and investing in the Oklahoma market. And then you your wife and your daughter, you move there because it is a rather attractive investment climate. You've been prolific in the industry. You've spoken at hundreds of real estate events, so welcome and tell us more about yourself and really that attraction to Oklahoma.   Richard Advani  24:09   Yeah, it's great to be here and share, you know, more of what I learned as an investor the last 10 years. Yeah, it's been amazing, because when I first invested here, it was more of a diversification play for me, and I didn't expect a lot of growth, but, you know, it had good fundamentals, and boy have I been surprised, because it has grown, and the growth just continues here.   Keith Weinhold  24:30   Now, in a sense, I think about Oklahoma as a potential next place. And what I mean by a next place is that 10 to 20 years ago, Denver and Phoenix were metros that worked well for cash flow and real estate investors, but then prices ran up faster than rents in Denver and Phoenix, and they no longer work for cash flow with a 20% down payment on residential property, Oklahoma feels positioned as a next place where the numbers still work before the price. Prices get run up and this is especially true when we're still in this affordable housing crisis. And Americans kind of look for that next place where the cost of living is still low.   Richard Advani  25:10   Exactly. And if we look back to you said, the fundamental things that made Phoenix and Austin and all these places grow out of the desert was they were affordable and they were business friendly. And the median home price in the US right now is $430,000 roughly, yeah, and the median home price in Oklahoma today, even after all that growth, is a little over half of that. So it's not a new concept to understand why and where that growth here stemming from.   Keith Weinhold  25:37   since 2000 Oklahoma cities, just that city's average annual growth rate is 1.4% that is really solid for a mature interior US Metro now, it's not quite like Austin or Nashville, but you're avoiding those substantially higher Austin and Nashville prices. And for comparison, the nation's annual growth rate since 2000 is eight tenths of 1% to your point about the growth now Oklahoma, I think of it as really like a two major metro state. You've got Oklahoma City in the middle and then somewhat smaller Tulsa in the northeastern part of the state. So talk to us more about that growth.   Richard Advani  26:19   Yeah, definitely. Well, I think, you know, 20 years ago, Oklahoma is really known as an energy state and a military state, and they acknowledge that as a state that they want to reduce that dependence. So there's been a huge amount of programs driven to bring small to medium size and obviously large size businesses in at the moment, we focus primarily on Oklahoma City, but Tulsa, as you mentioned, is an hour and a half away. If you look at a map, it looks really far away, but it's not in Tulsa is really kind of the Austin of Oklahoma. There's a lot of STEM and a lot of robotics and a lot of different things going on there. Stay tuned, though, as we move into latter part of the year, we are going to start expanding our product into Tulsa as well. But I think the big thing Keith is bringing awareness to people that Oklahoma exists. We do a lot of client tours, and we look forward to touring a lot of your clients as well. But people are just blown away when they get here. It's clean, it's nice, it's family friendly. All the suburbs of Oklahoma City, for example, they're just gated communities and good school districts. And what's crazy is you could put 20% down buy a brand new home in a nine out of 10 school district in the Oklahoma City metro, we're in the below $300,000 range, and make a positive you know, you can't do that in any other metro in the US.   Keith Weinhold  27:38   Yeah, that is really attractive. So I think of Oklahoma City is a place that's not very flashy, although they do have that proposal for that giant building that I think a lot of people have read about. You know, it seems like every major city has their big, pointy thing in the middle of town. Oklahoma City might as well they have a skyscraper with a proposal, only a proposal at this stage, which would make it the tallest building in the United States, but outside of something flashy like that, I don't think of Oklahoma as a very flashy place. It doesn't make the headlines as much as a lot of other places do, but those headline making places seem to have the prices run up, and that's not so advantageous for investors. So tell us more about that investor advantage in Oklahoma, including things like the law tilting toward landlords versus tenants, and any other economic drivers.   Richard Advani  28:31   Yeah. So firstly, I'll touch on that point. It's a very, very landlord friendly state, from the month a tenant runs late, you can essentially have them out that same month, as long as a property manager company is doing their job and serving notices. But at the end of the day, if it's a matter of the tenant not paying their rent, and you've provided a household right, your HVAC is working, there's nothing negligible on the landlord side, super easy. It's an open and shut case. Now what we see because of that is, out of 250 properties under management last year, we've never had to do an eviction, because it's a lose, lose for the tenants. And they know that, right? You serve them with the notice, they are out very, very quickly. So yeah, very strong on the landlord side of things, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of growth happening in Oklahoma, like you mentioned that tallest building, in addition to that, you know, the OKC Thunder, are here, and, you know, I think they're a champion. I watched zero sports, but I have read deeply into the economic impact, and I've seen it right. I've had people come to town and we give recommendations on where to stand. They're like, Oh, I've been to Oklahoma two years ago for a thunder game, and I fell in love with the city, and it's very, very underrated. Imagine if you could have got into, you know, Austin or Dallas 10 years, 12 years, 15 years ago. And I hear it very often from people. This reminds them of what those places were like 10 years ago. And that's a great thing to hear, right, that strong fundamental and catalyst for that growth exists. Buying a single family home, as I mentioned in that A plus school district that Windows closing here in Oklahoma as well. You know, I think there's another year, year and a half, before they will pencil and will be like every other large metro in the US. So, you know, I think we're all going to look back and be like, Oh, you got in Oklahoma early. I've been in here 10 years. I think I got in early, but you know, we're still relatively early in terms of, you know, the growth trajectory, that's the head and once again, it's driven by common sense, fundamentals, affordable, business, friendly people get here, establish community, and it's a really nice place to live. I love it here.   Keith Weinhold  30:35   And because now you're a resident. Yes, you know Richard, one phrase I've shared with my audience recently, and I think it's apropos here is people say that they want an opportunity. What they really want is certainty. But as soon as certainty arrives, the opportunity is gone. I really think that's relevant here. So we've been talking about Oklahoma City, and what you do is you rehabilitate or offer new build properties to investors. Oftentimes they're out of state. You place a tenant for them, and then, if the investor so chooses, you also manage it for them. Like you mentioned, you have 250 properties under management in your portfolio. That's what you do, that's who you serve. We've talked about Oklahoma City. Tell us about some of the outlying areas, and why you choose those for investors,   Richard Advani  31:29   That's a great question. And yeah, we primarily focus on new construction, because that's what I believe in for investors as well. What's amazing is, we're kind of a, I don't say supermarket, but we're a mega market because we're in six or seven different cities within Oklahoma, which means for the investors, six or seven different strategies, right? As I mentioned already, we're in the A plus areas at the best schools. We're in commuter towns that are 20 minutes outside of the metro that are really charming. We're in military towns where we have very, very strong economies, very high rent to purchase price ratios, really some of the highest in the country for new construction. And we deliver products, starting brand new single family homes is at 145,000 and at 180 and 220 and, you know, all the way up to 550 and everything in between. So we have a product for every type of investor we have, you know, a home for every type of tenant out there as well, which, you know, makes our tours amazing, too. People leave with their head spinning, but we really have a good amount of selection and strategies within the state.   Keith Weinhold  32:35   145k for a detached single family home is pretty mind blowing to some people. I've seen those. I know the footprint of those is pretty small, but that really gives an idea of what potentially makes you attractive to work with. You have those all the way up to 550k which I think are the new build duplexes, correct mentioned there. So yeah, this is potentially attractive to people. I think a lot of us are really more interested in that ratio between the rent income and the purchase price, that valuable formula. So will you tell us more about   Richard Advani  33:11   That? Yeah, that's something that I think we really excel at, is finding that balance point between durability for the investor, but also kind of where that rent range falls off is. A lot of experienced investors know, as you go higher priced, higher end, the rent starts really falling off there. All of our builds have LVP throughout granite. You know, even that 145,000, our home is so much granite and it would blow your mind, but we're not skipping anything, right? They all have full gutters. All have central heating and air conditioning with that end end goal of making it durable. But, you know, finding that tipping point to where we're not over building for that rent, so we're able to really bring in some high cash flows for what we target, and we specialize in affordable housing. And when I say affordable, don't think cheap. Just think most builders are going to build a product we've been in a boom the last 20 years, right? So if there's 500 people in line to buy a $400,000 home where your profit margins are high, why build a $250,000 home, right? And that is where the housing shortage is, and that is what we've made our nation. Most importantly, that is where we can make cash flow as investors.   Keith Weinhold  34:20   So we're thinking about numbers on our pro forma now, Oklahoma does have tornadoes. I happen to know that tornado paths are geographically narrow. It's been estimated that they've severely damaged less than 1% of Oklahoma homes. But tell us about that, including the insurance coverage is one of our pro forma items.   Richard Advani  34:42   It's a great question, obviously, that comes up a lot. I took a video two weeks ago with tornado sirens blaring, and I'm with my wife and daughter, and mind you, my wife yells at me up until recently to get in the shelter. And we walk out front and I'm recording, and I look to the left, old couple outside looking at the sky. Look to the right, kids in the. Parents looking at the sky, and surprisingly to me, my wife was right there behind me. I'm like, why are you not in the shelter so? Long story short, tornadoes are real, right? I've lived here two and a half years now. I've never met a person affected by a tornado, yet, personally, and as you mentioned, it caused very low damage. There's very rarely fatalities. And most importantly, look, insurance rates are determined by losses suffered by that insurance company. You guys will be blown away at how inexpensive the insurance is, just for that reason, right? But, yeah, tornadoes are real. We're in tornado season now, and people ask, what do people do when the tornadoes are on? And, frankly, walk out and look up at the street, you know, at the sky. It's not like a hurricane, where they come in and mass and destroy a town. You can see the storm cell moving around right when you're looking outside. So damage is low. I've owned real estate in Oklahoma for over a decade. I've never been affected by a tornado, either. But you know, they are a thing, and they're that hot point, just like fires in California. What was earthquakes? But the important thing is, the standard insurance policy covers tornadoes, it covers hail, it covers all of that. And, you know, even on those 300,000 more a plus class properties insurance is like 1500 a year. You know, very inexpensive.   Keith Weinhold  36:15   We're talking about what I've been referring to, potentially as that next place for real estate investors. I was talking about that in house here with Naresh on how Oklahoma really feels like that next place due to some of these characteristics that I've been talking about. And Richard before, I ask you if you have any last thoughts. I have an event to tell you the listener about next Thursday night, May 28 Richard here is CO hosting a live webinar along with our GRE investment coach, Naresh, and you are invited to attend from the comfort of your own home. You'll meet Richard, learn the market, see performers of specific available properties, and you're probably going to learn something about real estate investing that you didn't know before. It's also a format where you can have any of your questions answered in real time. This can be an actionable opportunity for you again. It's Thursday, May 28 at 8pm Eastern. Sign Up it's free, you can register. It's open now at gre webinars.com. You'll meet a real pro, experienced provider there on the ground. Richard here and do you have any last thoughts, including what we can learn and see next Thursday? Richard,   Richard Advani  37:34   Just that you know, if you haven't considered Oklahoma before, take a close look at us, right? There's a lot of amazing things happening. I am boots on the ground. I started as a real estate investor, and that's kind of the foundation for our business. We really encourage tours to come out here. The market sells itself, but it's not needed. Look, we are boots on the ground. I bought dozens of properties myself, sight unseen. Technology makes things amazing for that. But come down. If you guys do have the time, we're going to share a lot more specifics next Thursday on proformas, on exact numbers and specific opportunities. And yeah, excited to share Oklahoma with all of your investors, and to bring these opportunities to you guys and appreciate the opportunity to be here.   Keith Weinhold  38:18   Is there anything that investors find surprising that they did not know about Oklahoma prior to investing there, and prior to learning about it, and before you answer yes, thank goodness that you offer tours. Any good provider should do that, although, in my experience, it's typically only five to 10% of out of state investors that actually take up somebody on the tour. You can never take that personally. That's just what happens industry wide, as we know. But is there any maybe last thing that we should know about the market, Richard, maybe something that an out of state investor is a bit surprised to learn, or that's unique to that particular market?   Richard Advani  38:58   I think the biggest thing that people are surprised about is how nice it is. I've actually had an investor bought six properties and moved to Oklahoma become a good friend of mine. Now, since he lives in Oklahoma, people are just blown away at how clean and nice and family friendly. And we hear quite often that, you know, our investors would live in these homes, so much so we had one actually do that. So yeah, it's very underrated. And I think, as you said very aptly earlier, you know, it's the next market, it could be the next big market,   Keith Weinhold  39:30   potentially that next place. If this sounds interesting to you, be sure to join Richard and our team again. It's Thursday May 28 at 8pm Eastern, and you can register at gre webinars.com. It's been valuable. Richard, it's been great having you here on the show.   Richard Advani  39:46   Thank you.   Keith Weinhold  39:52   Yeah, a rather interesting potential. Next place, if you will, for some perspective in Noelle. Normal traffic conditions from downtown Dallas, it is a three to three and a half hour drive north to Oklahoma City, but that is its own distinct market and city and capital. Oklahoma City affordable and business friendly this century. Really, it's those two drivers, affordable and business friendly, that have been the growth engines for other cities. OKC also has an expanding aerospace and tech presence in major downtown development projects, among other interesting things. At next week's live event, expect to see new build, yes, as low as 145k with LVP flooring and granite throughout, like we touched on there, one investor has even moved into the property themselves. I mean, you can do that if you want to. These are conducive to being good rental properties, but you own the property, you could live there, if you so chose. Yes all the way up to new build duplexes at 565k that generate almost $4,000 in monthly rent, though, these are the types of properties where you might want to pick up one of them, or five of them as investments leveraging the GRE duck and getting position for this likely next inflationary wave from an energy shock. I don't want to steal all the thunder from the event, but expect the provider to offer two years of free property management as well. One last time it all takes place next Thursday the 28th at 8pm Eastern. Sign Up Free at gre webinars.com until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 1  41:49   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests on their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  42:18   The preceding program was brought to you buy your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com you.

Originally aired March 13, 2024 (Episode 22) Subscribe to our Premium channel. The first month is on us. 

Originally aired March 13, 2024 (Episode 22) Subscribe to our Premium channel. The first month is on us. 

Time is fleeting, but every once in a while it stretches just enough to hold on to the moment. MK-Ultra puts the deep in Deep House, with hints of Dub Techno, Downtempo and Ambient for added nuance. As a spiritual successor to fan-favourites Daydream and Tranquility, this collage of immersive soundscapes invites you to close your eyes and drift into a dream-like voyage in the lower tempo range.This podcast episode features content created or published by DeepWit Recordings, Freerange Records, Morris Audio, Piston Recordings, Poker Flat Recordings, Pureuphoria Records and others.Simon Hinter - Soul [Original Mix]Persie Botta & Jade Nickels - They Never Loved Us [Original Mix]Dennis Richie - X.Y.O. [Random Thoughts Remix]youANDme - Mouche [Original Mix]Ivan Garci - Fora [Alvaro Hylander Remix]Kamosoul - Viola [Original Mix]Future Kings of House - Rider's Joy [Original Mix]BNinjas - Get It [Original Mix]Manuel Costela - Deep Stab [Krippsoulisc Remix]Random Thoughts - Mind Your Pieces [Original Mix]Mc4Len - Premordial [Original Mix]Cosmic Replicant - Landscapes Motion [Original Mix]

01) Hein Schultz - Look To The Sunrise (Extended Mix) [ DWNSMPL RECORDS ] 02) Conor Holohan - No Way Back (Extended Mix) [ Subculture ] 03) Sebastian Brushwood - Walking To The Sky (Extended Mix) [ Ablazing Records ] 04) Michael & Leonet & Cosmic Owl - Souls Fusion (Extended Mix) [Ultima Audio] 05) Xander Wexford - Under The Seas (Extended Mix) [ Neostatics Sounds ] 06) S.H.O.K.K. - Trancefagarasan (Extended Mix) [POSITIVE STATE] 07) Izzy - From Me, For Me (Izzy KL debut Extended Remix) [ Mystic Escape ] 08) Roger Shah & Inoblivion - Midnight Chase (Extended Mix) [ Magic Island Elevate ] 09) John Colombani - Infinity (Extended Mix) [ #WeAreTrance ] 10) SPY - Ghost (Extended Mix) [MONSTER PURE]

In this episode of Wharton Tech Toks, host Gorav Menon (Wharton MBA '27 and co-host of The Linen Suit & Plastic Tie) sits down with Lisa Yamner, Co-Founder & Chief Brands Officer at Daydream, for a deep dive into the future of AI-powered commerce and storytelling in fashion.Lisa shares her journey from helping launch Google's first political advertising initiatives and building the tech giant's fashion and luxury vertical, to co-founding THE YES and now Daydream, an AI-native shopping platform reimagining personalized discovery. Together, they explore how conversational AI is transforming retail, why fashion is fundamentally emotional, and how personalization can move beyond algorithms into genuine taste and identity.The conversation also dives into the tension between technology and creativity: Can AI actually enhance individuality instead of homogenizing culture? How do brands maintain storytelling and trust in an era of automation? And what happens when shopping starts to feel more like a conversation than a transaction?From luxury's early skepticism of digital advertising to the rise of AI personal shoppers, this episode offers a fascinating look at how technology, storytelling, and human taste are colliding to shape the future of commerce.

Keith breaks down why real wealth is built through concentration, not diversification and explains how focusing on one main vehicle—like a specific real estate strategy, business, or career niche—creates the expertise and asymmetric returns diversification can't.  He also clarifies that diversification isn't useless; it's most powerful later in life as a wealth preservation tool, not a wealth builder. Contrasting building wealth with simply earning a living, showing why specialization is the key to higher income.  Finally, he highlights the one area where diversification truly shines: your relationships and network, which provide resilience, perspective, and long-term support. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/605 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is wealth built through diversification or concentration? There is one clear answer. Then, in five year age increments, how should you think about wealth building and real estate at age 2025, 3035, and so on, all lay out each one today on get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:26   Flock homes helps multi family owners exit the operator grind, whether it's your six Plex or a 50 unit apartment through a 721 exchange, this defers your capital gains tax. It's a strategy long used by institutions. Now you can swap tenants and toilets for passive income and zero management request your initial valuation, see if your property qualifies at flock homes.com/gre, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre,   Speaker 1  0:59   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:15   Welcome to GRE from Buffalo New York to Buffalo Wyoming and across 108 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education. I am back here with easy to understand language to help you learn why and how real estate has made more ordinary people wealthy than anything else, and in your personal path to wealth building, how do you think that wealth is achieved is it through diversification or concentration? Because there is a clear cut answer. There is no squishy wishy washy, a little of this and a little of that, or no major exceptions. No gray area here. And it's interesting because I have a CFA friend, that means chartered financial analyst who's really smart and really well trained, and yet he seems confused by this. We disagree on this one straight away. Do you think that you're going to build wealth if you diversify or if you concentrate? And if you're still undecided here, I'll give you a hint. I'm going to ask this integral question one last time and stress a word in this sentence for you. This could really help you out. Is wealth built through diversification or concentration? With that emphasis on built accumulated? The answer is that overwhelmingly, wealth is built through concentration, not diversification. Most people who actually create any really meaningful wealth, they didn't go sprinkle a little money everywhere. Instead, they really focused hard on one thing, whether that thing was a business or a career niche or a narrow set of high conviction investments or a specific real estate strategy, for example, single family rentals or self storage facilities or assisted living homes. And why? Well, because concentration amplifies your upside. It lets you develop expertise which gives you an edge over everybody else, and it's what turns average returns into asymmetric ones. Think about how Warren Buffett made massive gains early with concentrated bets. Or how Jeff Bezos went all in on just a few ventures, or Sarah Blakely on just a few ventures. Those that say don't put all your eggs in one basket, well, all right. I mean, you can look at the world that way, that is a diversification path. Though you're going to end up working full time until you're age 68 and you'll probably be safe and you might just have a sound retirement, but you have done so much trading away of your time in your best years for dollars. I mean, that's it. That's not a wealthy path. Your employer wants you to invest any of your extra income in a diversified way so that you're not going to build enough wealth to leave that employer early. And yes, we're back to the old Andrew Carnegie. Put all your eggs in one basket and then really watch that basket. Carnegie's concentration was in the steel industry, wealth. That's what we're talking about here, like something outstanding, extraordinary, not just a good enough retirement nest egg. Maybe real wealth is built through concentration. This is why we concentrate on one thing here on this show. Largely real estate investing, because you don't build wealth from diversification. All right now, yes, there could be a little diversification even inside residential real estate investing, say, maybe you want to get into three markets. Call it Atlanta, Indy and Kansas City. But overall, that is still concentration in residential real estate investing. And if you want to be outstanding, you have got to embrace the heterodox, meaning a departure from the Orthodox. Orthodoxy is spreading all your money around in, say, the s and p5 100 index, we're almost guaranteed then to get a pedestrian like outcome. And now look, once you've built something and you've got something to protect, which is however you've decided to build your wealth through concentration, oh, now that's when the game changes. You'll probably best protect your wealth, not build it protect what you've built through diversification that being done when you're older. And what diversification does for you is that it reduces your downside risk, it smooths volatility, and it prevents a single mistake from wiping you out. So at this stage, you're no longer trying to win big. You're just trying not to lose big. The mistake most people make is that they diversify too early, and that usually ends up leading to mediocre returns, no real expertise, and these sort of portfolios that are busy but not wealthy, it's sort of like planting 20 seeds and then not watering any of them enough.   Keith Weinhold  6:47   All right. So here's a smarter progression across your investing life. In your early stage, which is your wealth building phase, you want to concentrate your time, your energy, your capital, you want to build skill and conviction, and then you want to take calculated asymmetric bets after, say, 10 or even 20 years of that, you enter the mid stage. That's where you'll start spreading across related areas, for example, multiple property types, but still in markets that you understand. And then finally, after 10 or 20 years of this mid stage, it is later stage, which is wealth preservation only. Then is where you diversify broadly across asset classes and all sorts of geographies. And then you protect yourself against tail risks. So the bottom line is that concentration creates wealth, diversification preserves it. If you try to flip that order, you are going to stay stuck. And if you're young and you're still diversified, and you might think you're okay, and you even project that you're going to have something built up, like, say, $8 million in retirement. If you just keep this up, what you've just done is that you're making my point for me, because 8 million, that is not going to be an outstanding amount at all by the time you reach conventional retirement age, you had better flip to concentrating in something, whether it's residential real estate or data center construction or pressure washing. All right, so that was wealth building. Now, how about instead of wealth? Say that you're trying to make a living, all right, this is a different subject. Now, if you're trying to earn a living, should you diversify, or should you concentrate? How do you make a good living? Which is working at your day job? That's what we're talking about here. Now, once again, the answer is, through concentration, not diversification. We became a society of specialists by the Industrial Revolution 200 years ago, if not sooner, making a good living that comes from being valuable at something specific, not average at a whole bunch of things. One strong income engine beats five weak ones. Depth pays more than breadth. People are willing to pay you for expertise, not for dabbling around. This is whether it's a niche in real estate or a specific profession or a focused business model, you need one thing that reliably throws off good income and a little story here. I don't want this to be disparaging to Uber drivers, because I appreciate what they do and where they drive me. But I recently had an Uber driver. It happened to be in Hollywood, and this uber driver is also a stand up comedian there in West Hollywood. Well, those are two very diverse activities, driving and being a comedian, and that tells me something he's not a very successful. Stand up comedian. If you try to diversify too much, your attention gets split, your skill development slows, and your income plateaus at just okay. Now I'm fortunate enough to have had some good success at what I do, real estate investing, and then talking about real estate investing with you here, that is my specialty, my concentration. I don't mow my own lawn. A specialist does that. I don't shovel my own snow. A specialist with all the right equipment and all the expertise does that. I don't do my own accounting. Now in what feels like a previous life to me, when I used to work a day job for the Department of Transportation, and there were problems with paving a specific type of asphalt on the roads in cold weather, a specific specialist would fly out to help us troubleshoot that. He was a high paid consultant, because he is in a niche that's very tiny. So when it comes to the matter of making a living, where diversification fits is once your primary income stream is stable and predictable, well then maybe you could add a second complementary stream, and not something that's random, build redundancy so that you're not fragile. But just think of that as a backup engine. You don't want to think in terms of 10 side hustles. For an example, a real estate investor adds another market or a strategy, a w2 professional well, they had maybe one serious side income, and that's just a matey. Surely not six apps and gigs if you're out there chasing everything, then you are going to earn less. And now that I've discussed how you want to concentrate, not diversify if you want to build wealth, and you also want to concentrate not diversify if you want to make a good living, well then you might wonder, gosh, does diversification have any place in my life? Is there any life facet at all where diversification gives you an advantage? Yes, there definitely is. Do you have any idea where diversification helps you as you look at all areas of your life, because there is one clear cut place, and that is relationships. Yeah, whether it's romantic relationships, like dating a potential spouse or in the broader sense, I mean, when you met your eventual husband or wife, it's not very likely that you impress them by going deep on some nuance that has to do with asphalt paving, or how you or how you increase your cash on cash return with management efficiencies on your single family rental portfolio in Little Rock Arkansas,   Keith Weinhold  12:57   In relationships, you become attractive to people because you can say, show a soft side, or be a good listener or know how to dance a little all while you can make a good living a diversified relationship portfolio. Now for you, that might mean having close friends for fun and honesty and a professional network for opportunities and perspective, and you might have a mentor or two in your life for guidance, and then you've got family relationships for roots and support. So every one of them plays a different role, and that way, no single relationship has to carry everything and what this protects you from is having just one friendship. You don't want that, otherwise, your whole social life can collapse. It protects you from a career setback, because you'll still have emotional support. Having diverse relationships prevents you from falling into echo chambers. Instead, you're going to get better, broader thinking. So having diversification in relationships that is basically risk management for your life and in this life, facet smart diversification makes you resilient. It makes you grounded. It makes you harder to knock off course. So let's review here in relationships, diversify to build wealth, concentrate and to make a good living, concentrate. And with that said, you know, if you want to get mega, mega wealthy, like stupid rich, let's just call that a billionaire with the letter B, if you want to reach that level, then I don't think that investing in rental property is the fastest or the best way to get there, although it can give you a good start. And then what's the point of this show? The point is that real estate investing is the most proven way to build wealth when you concentrate on it. If you want enough net worth and income so that you never have to work again all while you're still young enough to enjoy it, direct investment in real estate. Hey, that's great. If you want to get up to the $10 million net worth level, or even to say, $50 million that is totally doable. And the good news is that it's almost inevitable if you apply yourself and yes, concentrate, because that's all most people want, options and freedom. Those words are often a proxy for wealth. But if you're trying to get on the Forbes list of the world's wealthiest 100 people or whatever, which is where you need to concentrate on a novel business idea. All right, you can go for that, and then your risk of failure goes up substantially. You might even reach the billionaire level. As a real estate investor, more likely the DECA or the Centa millionaire level. But there are other ways of doing that outside of real estate. Real estate investing is great if you want to get sort of regular wealthy. Maybe even say that can be as little as 15 million or 25 million plus when you're young enough to enjoy it. And you know even half or 1/3 of those levels are enough as a freedom number for most people. With all that said, when you concentrate to build wealth, you do have to pick a proven vehicle. You can't say you're going to concentrate on sports gambling or prediction markets like call sheep or polymarket. They are not proven wealth building vehicles. Most people lose money on Poly market if you've wagered your mortgage that Mr. Beast is going to be the next President of the United States, perhaps reconsider that approach. In fact, according to an analysis that Bloomberg just performed, nearly every poly market trader either loses money or they make little or no profit. More than 100,000 accounts lost $1,000 since the start of last year, and that is twice the number of accounts that made at least $1,000 in aggregate, traders lost $131 million on this prediction market over that time, the tiny number of accounts that make lots of money appear to be mostly bots. That's what Bloomberg found. And there was a separate study that found that since 2022 69% of traders lost money, while three quarters of total profits were won only by the top 1% of users. So gambling, wagering, this speculation, it is not a proven vehicle, and it's not the same as investing. The cleanest way to think about the difference is that investing means putting money into something that produces value over time. Instead, gambling means putting money at risk on an outcome that you cannot influence, usually with a negative edge. And gosh, one reason that this is on my mind is, you know how I recently shared with you that I stayed at the Bellagio in Vegas. I didn't gamble at all. And in fact, I don't even know if I'm going to stay there again. That's just not congruent with who I am. But I marveled with my mouth agape when I watched a few games at the roulette wheel. Yeah, you're allowed to watch if you're not gambling. A typical scene is that perhaps five players were wagering their chips at the roulette wheel. Now the way it works is that the casino, they often have two and sometimes three of their own staff, like uniformed employees, that are there facilitating and monitoring the roulette wheel. I mean, look right there, if the casino is paying two or three staff members to facilitate the roulette wheel, well, the player should know that the odds are tilted against them. I mean, those casino dealers make, you know, they usually just make 50 to 70k a year with tips, all right, well, so the house needs to have enough of an advantage to pay their employees that are at that table and still profit. And they sure do profit. If you don't understand the game, when you play roulette, you can basically either wager that the ball is going to land on either red or black, but two of the 38 spaces on the wheel are green. They benefit the house directly. So with every bet that a player makes, they've got 18 winning spots and 20 losing spots. This is why roulette, like most gambling schemes, is for losers. And this roulette metaphor, I mean, this is a easily intuitive example for How the house has the advantage, whether it's the DraftKings app on your phone or it's a physical in person Casino. And look, I had another Uber driver recently. Yeah, lots of Uber drivers in my life lately, as I've been traveling in Pennsylvania, New York, California and Nevada, all right, interestingly, this uber driver is a dealer at the Horseshoe Casino, which is near the center of the Las Vegas Strip. While he drove me around, he opened up and told me that he doesn't understand why anyone is a serious gambler in his life history, he divulged to me that he has never known one long term winner. That's a gambler. It's amazing that he would admit that himself as an employee there. So suffice to say, wealth is built through concentration, not diversification, and certainly not through gambling.    Keith Weinhold  20:56   How should you think of building wealth for yourself at different age profiles, 20,25,30,35, and so on. I'll discuss each age profile that's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  21:13   What if you got your mortgage loans the same place I get mine. You sure can at Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056,they provided GRE listeners with more loans than anyone. Because Ridge specializes in investment property, they'll help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat directly with President chailey Ridge while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com   Keith Weinhold  21:44   Let me ask you something, if you've worked hard to build wealth, is your money positioned to actually support your goals? A lot of accredited investors leave capital sitting in cash because it feels safe, but inflation and missed income opportunities can quietly erode its value. Freedom family investments offers freedom notes for investors seeking structured income backed by real estate. It's a straightforward approach built on real assets, not speculation. In full disclosure, I'm an investor myself. What I like is that their team walks you through how it all works, so you can decide if it aligns with your portfolio and income goals, every investment carries risk and nothing is guaranteed, but with a track record of consistent on time investor payouts, they built real credibility. Go to freedomfamilyinvestments.com to book a clarity call or text. Family 266, 866, that's family 268,66   Ted Sutton  22:48   Hey, it's corporate, directs Ted Sutton. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  23:02   welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to Episode 605 let's talk about some age profiles, because your life isn't random, it's staged. And if you understand the stages, I'll take it from age 20 up to age 40 or perhaps 50, because I don't have experience yet with being older than them. And then you can stop guessing and start engineering your future. Let's discuss mindset and then some tactics on how to build wealth in five year increments, largely through real estate, starting with age 20, at this stage, you're not behind you are early, though. I do know some people that have owned rental property at age 18 and 19. For the most part, your job isn't to invest yet. Your job is to build awareness and identity. Listen to shows like this one that you're listening to right now, even though you might be in college or trade school or have some employment, yes, as an employee, start thinking like an owner at this time you're installing your financial Operating System. Most people are 20 are consuming entertainment. You you're consuming direction. You're thinking, how can I set up a life where I'm not living below my means, which will always limit you? You're thinking, how can I grow my means at age 25 let's say you're out of school, you have a job and you're only making 65k per year if you're living with your parents, that means you can accumulate more liquidity. I don't like to say that you're becoming a saver, because that does not wire your mind for wealth, but that's effectively what you're doing. You're trying to amass some Liquidity, some capital formation is taking place. If you only have, say, $30,000 of cash amassed, well, then you're not ready for real estate, unless perhaps you're doing an owner occupied FHA loan in a duplex or a fourplex with a three and a half percent down payment. If you've got credit card debt. That's at 21% APR. You do want to retire that first age 25 is when you're likely to have student loan debt. The average student loan debt balance at age 25 is about 35k and the interest rate is 7% as long as your income is stable. You know, I didn't focus on paying down my student loans at age 25 I mean, why would I? Why should you I invested first? Because you might feel like having student loans slows you down, and it does, but not accumulating assets is what will keep you stuck so you're 25 when do you buy your first income producing asset? Say you've just got 20 to 30k accumulated liquid. That is still a little early to buy your first rental property, because that first property that would take all of what you had accumulated, that down payment would take it all like for an out of state turnkey property, and you've always got to stay a little liquid, but sooner than later, you have got to increase your income and own some real assets. If you accumulate instead 60k cash and the cheapest decent investment property would probably take something like a 30k down payment in closing costs right now, all right. Well, that tilts toward pulling the trigger and doing it because you've got some buffer. Now, you're still learning along the way, but you're learning really begins when you own your first property. Now, if you happen to live in an investor advantage place, oftentimes in the Midwest or south, perhaps the inland northeast, well then maybe you buy locally. But if you live in a pricey Metro at age 25 then you are probably rent vesting instead. What rent vesting means is that you're paying rent in, say, New York City, and you own property that you rent to others in, say, Chattanooga, Tennessee, that's called rent vesting. And you might pick up more than one property in your late 20s by age 30. Okay, look, this is when your cumulative better decision making really starts to show your trajectory has diverged from the herd, and it's really becoming noticeable to your peers, because your past decisions start compounding here by age 30. This is where you can benefit from modeling if you see someone like you that's doing what you want to do now, you can see yourself doing it. That's called modeling, and this is where your confidence grows. We'll say that now you're married at age 30, and you have a young child. You and your spouse make 175k together. You still have student loans, but you definitely own some real estate by now, we'll even say that you own your own home, your primary residence. By 30 you have a pretty good understanding of financing, property management and markets. By age 35 now you're investing in multiple real estate markets, and this is fueled because you've now done cash out refinances of your earlier properties into some more properties, and that means that you don't even have to use all of your own money in order to buy other properties and make down payments on them. So by age 35 your mindset has shifted from how do I buy a property over to how do I build a machine that buys properties, and this is where scale happens for you, you want to be sure to stay in your lane of competence and avoid chasing shiny objects again. Concentration over diversification by 35 it's become so apparent that you're glad that you did what you did. Other people are still doing things like working a lot of overtime and missing dinners. Maybe you do a little of that, but you don't have to do that. You're happy that you were strategic and you took the actions necessary so that your life doesn't feel like spinning on a hamster wheel like it does for everybody else, and it might still feel that way for you, too, but you are able to see a way out of that. And some people retire with real estate investing by age 35 but in this case, let's just say that you're not. Most aren't, but by now, you are getting so far ahead Of your old peers that you are definitely saying something to yourself, like, wow, indeed, capital compounds and labor doesn't this is the time in your life for this type of epiphany. Let's see where you are by age 40, and by the way, let's acknowledge that the average age of the first time homebuyer is now fully 40 in America. But by listening to this show and following the path that we help you with and engaging with our coaching and reading our newsletter, you are well ahead of this now I have a traditional financial advisor friend who says that he recently shared with me that he thinks a couple is in good shape if they have a net worth of $2 million by age 40. I don't know about that, though, if it's $2 million and a soldier in a 401 K that's locked away and it's not producing any income, that's a poor trajectory for the 40 year old couple. Sheesh, it's still a minimum of 20 more years from there until you can access 401K money, penalty, free. And, yes, there are some workarounds, but that's generally the picture. Well, instead, if you're a 40 year old couple with $2 million dollars in real assets. Oh, now you're in a substantially better position than if it were in some illiquid, conventional retirement plan. If it's in real assets. Oh, now you've got all these options. It could be producing income. You've got tax advantages that are greater than a 401, K, you might be able to access some of the equity, tax free, with a refi and plus say that your $2 million in equity is leveraging $5 million in real assets. Well, then, with 5% appreciation that alone is growing your net worth by $250,000 every single year, in addition to everything else that it's doing for you, yeah, talk about diverging from the herd. $2 million of equity in real assets crushes. Having that amount in a 401 K for you as part of a 40 year old couple, by age 45 you could very well be job optional. You could have teenage kids now, so you've got some expenses, you've been cash out, refinancing in a refi for life plan. Now your properties regularly are able to buy more properties for you, so that you aren't spending your own money on them. Instead, you're spending your own money on travel and living a better life than those others that are soullessly grinding at age 45 and yes, by the way, let's acknowledge that there would be ways for you to borrow out of a 401, k as well, but they're less forgiving than borrowing against your real assets after this period of time for you, you're getting into your late 40s, it is less about accumulation and it's more about optimization and freedom. I mean, you're soon asking, What do I want my life to look like? And you're not asking, How do I make more money? And at age 50 plus, since I really don't have much life experience here, you've probably done a number of 1031, exchanges, or you're even doing 721, exchanges, if you're substantially older than this saying that you want to retire from landlording. Now, one big lesson learned here is that early on, that focus, that concentration, is what allowed you to diverge from the herd that played small with diversification. One thing to be aware of when you're asking yourself that question, how much is enough? You're asking, how much is enough? Well, today, a five to $6 million dollar net worth that can usually generate enough income so that you don't have to work anymore. But people have a propensity to move the goalposts. It's most natural to think that you need to have twice as much as what you have now. Almost everybody inevitably thinks his way. If you've got 100k to your name, you think you've got it made. If you have 200k and if you've got 5 billion, you think you will need 10 billion. Be aware of that propensity to move the goalpost the amount that you think you need is almost always double what you have right now. And of course, in the words of the late George Foreman, the question isn't at what age I want to retire, it's at what income. Even conventional retirement planners will tell you that they just need to know two things in order. A plan for you, how much monthly income are you going to need, and how long you're going to live. And I think they've got that part right now. As you listen to those age profiles, you might have felt yourself ahead of that pace, on that pace, or behind that pace. There's a good chance that you were behind that pace, because by age 20, most people just don't adopt the abundance mentality that early. Most people drift through these decades, but if you understand the sequence, it's really this, learn, then earn, then buy, then scale and then optimize and be sure that you're living the entire time. The really good news for you is that you don't need luck. You need alignment with the stage that you're in. And if you get that right, you don't just build wealth, you build a life where money works harder than you do. Most people that try to do that get their money to work harder for them, well, that approach does not work until it's too late, but it works out for us because we ethically crowdsource other people's money to work harder than we do. To review what you've learned today. Wealth is built through concentration, not diversification. And from a young age, set up your life not to live below your means, but to grow your means. I'll talk to you again next week. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  36:42   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively,   Keith Weinhold  37:10   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get rich education.com  

In Episode XCIII Mandi tosses Suz a Trick Taking Gauntlet. They discuss two roll-and-writes: Daydream and Locus, and chat Fruit Boss and the Under Starry Skies expansion for Faraway. The Game Pie of the show is a wistful "Games from 2025 we really want to play". Thank you for listening! Please take a moment to rate us on your podcast listening platform.BGG Guild: https://boardgamegeek.com/guild/4131Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/saltandsass.bsky.socialYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SaltandSassGamesTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/saltandsassgamesEmail: SaltAndSassGames@gmail.com

Music has the power to conjure memory and emotion. In her new book, “Transported: The Everyday Magic of Musical Daydreams,” St. Louis native and professor Elizabeth Margulis investigates the source and implications of music's impact on human cognition. The director of Princeton University's Music Cognition Lab shares insights from her research, including the way that emotion and memory can trigger a person to “find yourself transported to some memory from your past, often quite vividly, or some fictional scene that you've never really experienced.”

Keith explores how real estate investors can use mortgage strategies to build long-term wealth.  Seasoned lending expert and repeat guest Caeli Ridge joins Keith to discuss why debt isn't something to avoid but to optimize, and how negotiating terms can matter more than price. They walk through practical approaches for new and experienced investors, from house hacking to scaling a rental portfolio. The conversation also tackles common myths about qualifying for investment property loans and what really matters to lenders.  Finally, they emphasize focusing on fundamentals—cash flow, risk management, and informed decision-making—rather than fixating on interest rate headlines. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/604 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold Some mortgage guidance out there is costing you wealth today. I'm talking about how you can negotiate to get better terms. I'll tell you the exact questions to ask. Then a guest clears up mortgage myths and misconceptions and how you can borrow to win today on get rich education   Keith Weinhold  0:28   let me ask you something, if you've worked hard to build wealth, is your money positioned to actually support your goals? A lot of accredited investors leave capital sitting in cash because it feels safe, but inflation and missed income opportunities can quietly erode its value. Freedom family investments offers freedom notes for investors seeking structured income backed by real estate. It's a straightforward approach built on real assets, not speculation and full disclosure. I'm an investor myself. What I like is that their team walks you through how it all works so you can decide if it aligns with your portfolio and income goals. Every investment carries risk and nothing is guaranteed, but with a track record of consistent on time investor payouts, they built real credibility. Go to freedomfamilyinvestments.com to book a clarity call or text family to 66 866, that's family to 6866   Speaker 1  1:32   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:48   Welcome to GRE from Albany, New York to Albany, Oregon and across 188 nations worldwide. You're listening to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, as we know, debt isn't something to avoid. It's something to optimize. As a real estate investor, I would rather have lower mortgage rates than higher ones, and now you can call me Captain Obvious. Yet there are some reasons that higher mortgage rates benefit us as investors, though they're not as great as the lower rates are I'll discuss some of that today. This stuff obviously influences marketplace behavior. In fact, here we are now, years after rates made their historic surge and nearly tripled between 2022 and 2023 and yet still, 70% of mortgage borrowers have an astoundingly rock bottom rate below 5% today, lower than the ocean floor, and they won't sell those properties. That's just one contributor to the low supply hangover that still lingers. Are today's buyers still anchored to an unrealistic baseline. It certainly reframed how investors think about normal borrowing costs and what that word normal means. My first ever rental property, many years ago, was purchased at a 30 year fixed rate of six and three eighths percent. One year later, I got to refinance a full 1% lower at five and three eighths. I'm happy that I bought one I did because starting year earlier, got all my real estate benefits rolling that much sooner, the leverage and everything else, and when I did that, refinance many years ago, from six and three eighths down to five and three eighths, I was able to roll all of my loan refinance costs into the new mortgage balance, and that way I didn't have to pay anything out of pocket. So financing is negotiable. A lot of investors don't realize that buy down your rate if you want roll the loan costs into the loan amount, like I did. In fact, I would usually rather have a higher mortgage rate and then not have to come out of pocket at the table. I would rather do it that way. Sometimes I take a higher rate and even get cash back at the closing table. So I walk away from the closing table with a property and cash, but yet with a bigger mortgage. And what's the strategy there? Well, with more inevitable Inflation, I want to load up on the dollars that I get now and then make those paybacks over the long term with future cheaper, diluted dollars for 360 months, sometimes I don't have to ask the lender for any sort of favor to get that zero help from the lender at the closing table to get cash back. How do I do that? Well, I ask the seller to give me cash at the closing. Closing table in return for offering the seller full asking price, or sometimes even over the asking price. I have done it the strategy of offering full price or even a little more than the full list price. See, that's often easier than getting a price cut from the seller, and that works great, because getting the closing table, cash is going to benefit you more than the price cut would anyway, in almost every circumstance, and when it comes to your lender, ask them questions that cut through the noise. Now, lenders have to make their profits somewhere and stay in business, but I've asked the question, what's the break even point on this rate buy down. That's something you can ask today. That can be an even better question for you to ask of builders with all of the buy downs that they're doing for you now, most people know about a mortgage rate lock. That's when you're in contract to buy a property. At some point, you and your mortgage company, you lock in your rate for, say, 30 to 60 days, and that way, if the rate rises before the deal is completed, you are protected. You are locked in. But some lenders also offer float downs. That's for if you lock and then rates go lower before you get the deal closed. In that case, you get the lower rate, and now you successfully played both sides, but most borrowers don't know to ask about a float down for larger apartment buildings, sometimes you can negotiate away prepayment penalties or instead a shorter penalty window. The thing to keep in mind is that smallest borrowers negotiate price, but savvy investors negotiate structure. That's what we're talking about here, and that's why you often hear that terms are more important than price. So there's plenty of opportunity here, even if historically low rates is not where today's opportunity lies. Today, we're going to discuss some things about mortgages that most people believe but are just flat out wrong. Also, what separates the borrowers who build real estate portfolios from the ones who stay stuck on property one, let's have a conversation with this week's repeat guest, a real favorite here at GRE for her mortgage clarity.   Keith Weinhold  7:35   Hey, the president of ridge lending group, Chaley Ridge is back with us. We'll get into things like rates and loan strategy shortly, but first, let's discuss some fun. What would you do? Chili, what would you do if you're 35 and have 100k to invest in real estate? What's your first move? Ooh, good question.   Caeli Ridge  7:55   So let's think five years ago for me now I'm 35 what would I do if I had that was a joke for all you listeners, obviously, you know, I think that if I could go back and knowing what I know now, I would probably invest that into an owner occupied house hack using an FHA loan. Probably look for newer construction if I could find it, and I would probably target a four unit residential property. I'd probably put three and a half percent down lowest rates with that. FHA, I would leverage my money, and I would get three other tenants in units, two, three and four to pay my mortgage, and then I'd use the rest to go buy an investment property   Keith Weinhold  8:32   much like I started out with the owner occupied four Plex, live in one unit, rent out the other three. FHA, three and a half percent down. What if someone, however, lives in a market where the numbers just don't work and the law really tilts toward the tenant rather than the landlord.   Caeli Ridge  8:47   You know, that's a good point. There's a lot of factors, obviously, right? And there's exceptions to all rules, etc. So I don't want to generalize, but I would probably take the 100,000 and maybe look at some kind of a burr in that case, maybe pivot and do some math and see if buy rehab rent refi might be more applicable. To take that 100 grand and leverage it that dollar bill, as far as I could make it  go   Keith Weinhold  9:10   sometimes you have to get scrappy when you're starting out another what would you do now? Say you've got some more experience. You already own two rentals. How do you scale that to 10.   Caeli Ridge  9:21   You know, my biggest piece of advice for investors, especially newer ish investors, is to make sure that you've got your eye on some level of diversification. Scaling from two to 10 can sound pretty daunting to some people, but I think that diversification advice comes in handy when you're not singularly focused on, let's say, a core philosophy of single family, residence, cash flow only in one market instead, maybe layer in some appreciating markets where you can earn and count on longer burn appreciation that you can then leverage from to then purchase the next to the next to the next, right. Cash. Refinances borrowed funds are non taxable. I would probably say diversification is the core answer to that question. For me,    Keith Weinhold  10:07   yeah, if you've already got two properties, maybe if you've had those for a few years, yes, you can do a cash out refinance and basically use one of your first two properties to fund that third and fourth and so on, right exactly? How about if rates drop 1% tomorrow? What's the next thing you would do? Immediately?    Caeli Ridge  10:29   I would do the math. Is what I would do, Keith, and I know you love that answer. So if I had a portfolio of X number of properties and rates just dropped 1% tomorrow, I would take a hard look at what I had in the queue, and I would say, Okay, how much does a one percentage point rate save me in monthly payment, aka, earn me in cash flow, and what is it going to cost me? It is imperative that the investor is actually doing the math. 1% may sound amazing, but if it's only going to save you 5060, bucks a month, and maybe that's enough, but it might cost you five grand. Does that math work for you? So that's my answer. Do the math?   Keith Weinhold  11:08   Yeah, if rates drop 1% does that make you want to perform more purchases? Does that make you want to refi something that you already have and at the same time that you do that refinance? Okay? That may or may not save you a lot in payment. But another consideration is, okay, well, at the same time you do that refinance, oh, maybe you could take cash out and use it as a down payment for another property, or just use that money for something else,    Caeli Ridge  11:33   absolutely, and you know what we're talking about. That from a purchase perspective, if rates drop 1% tomorrow, from an investment perspective, what do we think is going to happen to the rest of the market? The homeowners are going to be coming out of the woodwork, right? The owner occupied the competition is going to get very, very stiff, steep. I would say that if you are banking on or waiting for rates to do X, Y and Z, you are missing massive opportunities today. So there's a lot of reasons not to hesitate and be waiting on some magic, massive rate drop.   Keith Weinhold  12:04   All right. Well, those were three interesting what would you do scenarios you mentioned the possibility, and it's surely only a possibility that mortgage rates will drop sometime in the near future. Let's expand on that. If someone is indeed waiting for rates to drop. What are they risking in the meantime?   Caeli Ridge  12:25   You know, this is such a good but complicated question. There's a lot of layers to this. If someone has a magic number in their head, again, I'm going to press back and say you have to be doing the math. All right. So a lot of people conveniently, maybe not so conveniently. But a lot of people forget that interest rates, by nature, always drop or reduce much slower than they're going to climb. Okay, historically, go back and do your own research here. Interest rates, when they go up, they tend to kind of go up quickly. When they come down, they really kind of trail, and it's a slow, progressive landing. It's not a quick thing when they come down. So if we know that that's true, or at least historically, that's been true an interest rate reduction of an eighth or a quarter or three, it's of a point. Maybe that takes us a month or two or six or a year. What does that really mean to that payment? You have to be doing the math so, largely dependent on the loan amount. Okay, if you think that interest rates are going to be reduced in a month from now by a quarter of a percentage point, what does that mean to the payment? Does it mean $12 a month? Does it mean $100 a month? And in that scenario, in that calculation, what are you giving up by waiting the month or two or six for a what if I think that you are diminishing your rates of return by waiting on a come that one may never happen, and two, the significance is probably far less relevant than you are giving it credit for.    Keith Weinhold  13:52   Now, I think generally real estate investors want low mortgage rates. Obviously, it gives us a better refinance opportunity. It gives us a better purchase opportunity, potentially, okay. In general, we want lower rates. However, there are some reasons a lot of people don't think about as to why lower mortgage rates are actually bad for a real estate investor. If you just look historically, when have we had extraordinary low mortgage rates here in these past 20 years? Well, they've been to get us out of huge economic problems, late to global financial crisis or the covid pandemic. So if you're wishing for really rock bottom rates, which again, is tempting to do, and is advantageous, in a sense, there is a downside as well. If there are super low rates, a lot of people might be out of work, including your tenants. So that's the reason that we want to be careful as to what we wish for, with rates being super low and artificially low, like they were a couple times in the past two decades. And you know, Caeli another reason why I'm not fully in love. With low mortgage rates, although I liked them, is the fact that I look back and notice as being a property investor for more than two decades now, is that I have had tenants leave when mortgage rates are too low and lending is too easy, especially leading up to the global financial crisis, it was so easy to get first time homebuyer loans at really attractive rates. So I had higher vacancy because mortgage rates were so low that my tenants left and became first time homeowners. So yes, we generally want lower mortgage rates, but there is a downside to that as well.    Caeli Ridge  15:35   And I think there's probably a sweet spot, I think such a good point that most people probably don't think about Keith, and I couldn't agree more, when rates have been at their lowest. To your point, all hell is breaking loose economically in so many other sectors. Yeah, be careful what you wish for.   Keith Weinhold  15:51   Any old time, real estate investor would find it really humorous and almost cute that people think mortgage rates between six and 7% are high. You and I know they're historically low. 7.7% is the long term owner occupied, 30 year fixed mortgage rate going back to 1971 per Freddie Mac the most reliable stat set that we have. But now that we have come up back into what's really a more normal range, just like we started to do in 2022 How should someone think overall in not a high but a higher mortgage rate environment? What are some things that actually matter more now than they did before back five plus years ago?    Caeli Ridge  16:32    I want to give you some statistics. So from 1990 to now, the average owner occupied rate was 6.08 now that's owner occupied, and more often than not, you can add about a point percentage point spread between that and non owner occupied in general. So we are right in line with the last 36 year swing of where interest rates have been. So please keep that in mind. Again, that psychology piece. But overall, I think that what we need to be paying attention to, even if, over the last five years, 10 years, interest rates are a little bit higher than we came to recognize them, the pandemic was an outlier. You guys. Okay, let that lie that's hopefully never to repeat itself. But what we want to be focusing on, and I know that I'm beating a dead horse here, is that you have to get rid of the mental block that you have about that number that we call an interest rate. You need to be looking at a property holistically that says, does it cash flow based on this tenant application? What about this tenant application? What is my exit strategy? Is my property management doing the job that it needs to be doing? Can I trust them to ensure that my vacancy is low? And if I have to evict somebody that they know what they're doing and they know all the rules in the different cities and counties, I think that those are going to be more prevalent to the successful real estate transaction that gives you the financial freedom that you want long term, stop fixating on the rate. That's my advice.    Keith Weinhold  17:53   Some of those operations that you talked about are controllable, and the mortgage rate is largely uncontrollable outside of maybe getting a better credit score to get a lower rate or something like that, focus more on what you can control. And Caeli, you touched on something interesting that I think a lot of people don't understand, and that is investor financing versus owner occupant financing. A lot of people just don't understand the differences as to why investor loans cost more, tell us about that.   Caeli Ridge  18:25   Yeah, good question. It happens to be about secondary markets, so I won't get too technical, but when we talk about mortgage backed securities right Wall Street, and this is an asset class that is bought and sold and traded, etc, etc, there are demands, obviously, and then you've got layers of risk. So the baseline thinking is that an owner occupant is less likely to default on the home that they live in, right? Something is going on financially with them. They've got some hardships, etc. They're going to cut loose the rental property before they're going to default on their primary so that's just kind of the overall basic. There's other variables in there, but that's the one that makes the biggest difference. Is default rates on an owner occupied versus a non owner occupied. Now I may argue, if I can just add to this. So this is a little bit of a history lesson for those that maybe remember or too young to remember this. 08, 09, housing and lending implode on each other in this country, the financial crisis, et cetera, et cetera. It was the Wild West before that. You could have a pulse and get a mortgage, even investors right, 0% down. They had some pretty risky things out there. We didn't do that kind of stuff, but they were out there, and I certainly contributed to what happened with the oh eight financial crisis. So fast forward, and I feel like when things like that, especially in this country, happen and devastate big, huge sectors of our economy, we knee jerk. And we knee jerk in a way that is almost the 180 of irresponsibility. Let me explain so when we talk about what it used to be like, fogging a mirror, right, having a pulse and getting a loan as an investor or anyone. For that matter. Now fast forward to post, 08,09, you've got Dodd Frank, all that sweeping legislation, etc, they raised the qualification bar. Okay, that's fine. Now I want to come into today's space, and I want to give you guys an idea of the qualification markers between an owner occupied let's just use an FHA and a non owner occupied purchase. So you can have 580 credit and put three and a half percent down and have slightly over a 50% debt to income ratio and get an FHA loan, a GSE government sponsored enterprise loan. All right, a non owner occupied you've got to walk on water. Man, I make that dumb joke, files of blood and DNA samples, you've got 20 25% down minimum. You've got to have x higher in credit score, all these extra reserves, etc, etc. So I would argue that secondary mentality, thinking the non owner occupied is, in my opinion, probably a more stable loan as it relates to default. So there's some disconnect. I think that the way that that is thought about in secondary market speak, but maybe a little TMI for the listeners. In any case, that's the reason that they're looked at differently. The ideal, or the idea is, is that the owner occupied is less likely to default than the non owner occupied. I would disagree with that premise,   Keith Weinhold  21:19   and I think you would agree that things are still pretty tight because lending requirements are still pretty rigid, still pretty strict. You have to have a good credit history and assets and income, unlike what we had to have 20 years ago, when I was a real estate investor myself, back when things were irresponsible and back when things were free flowing, and money was flying, and a lot of nefarious things were happening. Even though I had a good credit score all my life, I was the beneficiary of those High Flying Wild West times myself. I remember on the first four Plex I owned after I had moved out of it so I didn't even occupy it anymore, I got a generous appraisal for a 90% combined loan to value, cash out, refinance 90% that I would not get today, no way.   Caeli Ridge  22:10   Yeah, but that knee jerk is, I think, also part of the problem. They go the opposite way that pendulum shift is, I feel like there needs to be a little bit more reasonability in the mix and different markers to justify who should be getting or being able to take advantage.   Keith Weinhold  22:26   When we talk about investor loans versus owner occupied loans, that really begs the question. Now, when does it make sense to house hack versus go straight into investor loans? What are some of the trade offs there.   Caeli Ridge  22:41   I would argue that if you are in a position and you're willing to share your primary residence with you know, tenants house hack is always a great idea, because you've got these great loan terms, you've got this massive leverage, and almost always you've got other people making the entire mortgage payment for you, or the vast majority of that mortgage payment, I'm such a big fan of that is a strategy for real estate investing. You've got to do it right. You got to do it by the rules. But I can't think of a downside if you qualify and you're willing to do that, to live with other people right next door, etc, etc. Some families don't think that that works for them, whatever, but I just think it's a fantastic way to jumpstart someone's real estate investment journey and then continue it. If you do it right every 12 months, then you'll be able to continue to parlay into the next, the next, the next. One thing I would say about that that I don't get a lot of opportunity to talk about, but since we're talking about here, if you're going to house hack and you've got, you know, a duplex, triplex fourplex, and you want to manage it yourself, which I think everybody should be responsible to manage at least one rental property in their lifetime, maybe official, yeah, yeah. More often than not, people will tend to pay for that service down the road. But having the experience is valuable. Do not tell the other tenants that you are the home owner, do yourself a favor and just you're another tenant, but you're taking care of you know, you don't want to let them know that you actually own the property. There's lots of emotional and different things that you want to avoid giving that information away to the tenants.   Keith Weinhold  24:17   I have had two friends, and each friend owned a fourplex, and what they did is they would manage the other person's fourplex. That way, they were able to keep it more professional and less emotional, since it wasn't the owner directly dealing with the tenant, and that provided a buffer that really benefited them. I haven't done that myself, but I found that such an interesting way to approach it?    Caeli Ridge  24:42   Yeah, that's smart. If that ends up being your situation, definitely horse trade that way. Otherwise, you're just a tenant and you can be on call whatever, just avoid giving that information back to the other tenants that may be there.   Keith Weinhold  24:54   Well, there's an underwriting reality out there that chili can share with us versus. Some of the online advice that you get, and what some of the biggest myths are that borrowers believe. We'll talk about that next. You're listening to get rich education. Our guest is Ridge lending Group President chailey Ridge, more we come back. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.    Keith Weinhold  25:12   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721 the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash, slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre    Keith Weinhold  25:47   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Ted Sutton  26:22   Hey, it's corporate directs Ted Sutton, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  26:29    Welcome back to get Rich's case, we're talking with a familiar and recurrent guest Ridge lending group, President Caeli Ridge Kelly, talk to us about your underwriting reality there, versus some of the advice that one gets online sometimes, including what really gets a loan approved with some of those things like income and reserves and DTI.    Caeli Ridge  26:59   You know, this can be so confusing for the consumer, because there are so many different vehicles in which to get Mortgage Funding, and there's something in our industry called an overlay. Okay, an overlay is taking the purest form of a guideline and adding layers of risk to it. I'll give you an example. Let's say that we know, or most of us know that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac allow for up to 10 finance properties per qualified individual, right? That is a straight Fannie Freddie guideline B of A, and this could be wrong, but a big boy bank may have an overlay and layers of risk that say we will only allow up to four, right? So all of this differing information, conflicting information, when the nice thing with ridges is that we go by the purest form of the guideline, we are not going to impose those overlays. So in working with us, you're always going to be sure that we know exactly what those guidelines are. We know them like our own faces, and that we're not going to impose some additional risk layering or overlay that might prohibit or preclude the qualification. It's pretty basic stuff. I mean, if you're going full doc, Fannie Freddie, and this can apply to our owner occupied and, of course, all of our non owner occupied income, debt to income, credit and assets, it's a pretty basic formula that we use. And then we've got all the other products that we have. Again, knowing those underwriting guidelines like the back of our hand, is very important to making sure that we can navigate the battleship in a creek. That's the analogy that I give that tends to be mortgage lending, or what feels like mortgage lending anyway. So it's pretty basic. We have to understand what the borrower's qualifications are out of the gate, and then we can provide them with a schematic of options that they can tell us which direction they want to go in    Keith Weinhold  28:42   for quite a long time now, one could get 10 conventional investor loans, single or 20 married. It wasn't always that way. I remember attending a real estate workshop in 2012 and you could only get four loans, or at least you could only easily get four investor loans before that expanded to 10. And we just shouldn't always assume that it's going to be this way forever.   Caeli Ridge  29:06   Yeah, so I kind of going back before 08,09, there was no limit to the number of finance properties Fannie and Freddie would secure per individual. After that crash, it shut off, and it got to four to your point. And then it stayed there for a while, until we kind of brought it back to that 10. You know, there's been rumors for years that they're going to up it to 12 or 15 or some random number. I don't even know where it's coming from. I always make a joke and say, Yeah, between now and my death, we'll see that. But it would be nice. It would be nice if they increase that number a few   Keith Weinhold  29:35   now, as someone is qualifying there, you probably run into a lot of borrowers that believe certain myths or have to have misconceptions corrected. Tell us about some of those    Caeli Ridge  29:45   the biggest myths, I'm going to say that it's probably one of three things they believe that they've got to make 10s of 1000s of dollars a month or hundreds of 1000s of dollars a year to qualify. Absolutely not true. It's so much less about the monthly. Income than it is the monthly income in relation to your minimum payments on your credit report. So just as an example, I could have a client that only shows $1,000 a month of income, but if they truly have no debt and some of the other qualifying criteria, they can qualify for a mortgage on an investment property, because the investment property has income to offset that mortgage payment. So it dispel the myth about having massive amounts of monthly income. That's not necessary. It's about the income and your monthly debt that we find on your credit report. That would be the first thing. The other thing, speaking of credit reports, I would say, is that a lot of times, people think that the overall debt that they're carrying matters. I mean, Mr. Jones could have $300,000 worth of debt, but his monthly payments are only 1500 All I care about is that monthly amount. I do not care what the total outstanding debt is. I hear that one a lot inquiries, credit inquiries. Every time you have your credit pulled, it drops the score, 20 points. Not the case. Now I can go down that rabbit hole, Keith, but it is a rabbit hole, so maybe I'll just leave it there. Your credit score does not drop X number every time you have your credit pulled. That's a misnomer.   Keith Weinhold  31:07   Well, actually, that brings up a thought. Then once prospective borrower initiates with you in there and gets the ball rolling in qualifying for a loan, what are some reasons that deals die late in the process? So what does it take to be sure to hold that together?   Caeli Ridge  31:23   You know, I think it all boils down to communication. And we tell our clients this on the front end, treat us like your attorney. You tell us everything, do not own anything, so that we can ensure that we're guiding you appropriately. So lack of information can derail things. Let's say, for example, they change jobs, and it's a completely new line of work, and it could prohibit or preclude the amount of income that we could have we were using now DTI gets changed, or they buy a new car in the middle, and they don't think it's going to come up. And now it's a DTI issue. It can be all kinds of things, but the point there is communication is key. Just keep us informed, and then we will give you the input or advice, and then you do what you want with that. But at least it's not once the bell is rung.   Keith Weinhold  32:05   Live pretty conservatively and safely until that loan closes. Yes, sir. Well, does that bring up any stories? Sometimes people learn better that way. Is there a deal? Perhaps that should have worked, but it didn't.   Caeli Ridge  32:20   That's a good question. You know, I think that the answer is no, and mostly because we have such a diverse menu of loan products, even if something did happen and even if it was outside of anyone's control, let's say we would normally just pivot to another loan product that would accommodate whatever that event ended up being. I cannot think of an example where a deal fell apart that could have gone differently, that we weren't able to just simply pivot into another path and close the loan for    Keith Weinhold  32:49   well, America is a place that promotes entrepreneurship, and it seems like side hustles as well are more popular than they've been before. So can you talk to us about how self employed borrowers get evaluated?    Caeli Ridge  33:04   Yeah, it is different. I mean, the simplest way to describe it is, we're going to take the adjusted gross income, but there are something called add backs. So depending on what their deductions are, there are certain things like Depreciation or Amortization or, I mean, there's a whole slew of things that we're able to take those numbers and add it back into the Adjusted Gross and then divide by 12 or 24 whatever it needs to be. That's typically what we're going to be looking at for a self employed person, versus the straight w2 is just the gross income divided by 12 months.   Keith Weinhold  33:35   Well, Caeli, this has been really good with some strategies and some actionable tactics. Before I ask how one can learn more about ridge? Is there any last thing that you'd like to share with us, whether that's to expand on anything we discussed, or any of the more nascent things that have happened, like banks holding less in capital reserves, or Fannie Mae, except in crypto back mortgages? Is there anything else we really ought to know?    Caeli Ridge  33:57   You know, I think my advice right now for anybody that is in real estate investing, thinking about getting into real estate investing, be informed. Listen to people like Keith, ideally, listen to people like me. I've been doing this for a very, very long time. I'm an educator at heart. Get your information from sources that you can trust, and try to avoid the analysis paralysis the best you can. I know that people get hung up on that, but now is the best time ever, and I would say that tomorrow and the next day and next year and the year after that, to invest in real estate.   Keith Weinhold  34:27   Yes, the only thing that could possibly make now better than ever is now is sooner than it's ever going to be again. Well, Caeli, if someone wants to get a hold of ridge so they can tell you their situation, and you can then help them find out how you can best help. What should they do?    Caeli Ridge  34:43   There's so many ways. Check out our website, ridgelinengroup.com you can email us info@ridgelinengroup.com you can call us toll free at 855, 74, Ridge. All of those ways get to us, and I look forward to speaking with each and every one of you   Keith Weinhold  34:58   that's been valuable. Always It's been great having you here.    Caeli Ridge  35:01   Thanks. Keith   Keith Weinhold  35:08   Caeli brought up a great point from the lender's view, when they make a loan, it might be safer for them to lend on an income property loan, actually, than it is for your own home, because on the income property, you have a substantially higher qualification bar to clear, and you have to make a higher down payment on it. I hadn't thought about it that way before. As far as Fannie Mae accepting crypto backed mortgage structures, that is still new as of this year. How it works with a crypto backed mortgage is that you're usually getting two loans. First you get a normal mortgage, and then for your down payment, it's a separate loan that's backed by your crypto. Your crypto stays locked up for years and you can't trade it while it's pledged as your home down payment. That's generally how it works. But notice the attraction. You would also get to keep your crypto while you're leveraging it. Also notice the risk there, and very few banks offer this, think Coinbase and not JPMorgan Chase. It's still new and niche, and it remains to be seen whether or not crypto backed loans will gain any real traction. It's only likely going to accept Bitcoin, Ethereum or stablecoins, not altcoins. Only about 1% of homebuyers use crypto in transactions. Most of what the current presidential administration has done focuses on making mortgages easier to get, not in making homes cheaper. Making mortgages easier to get means more bidders and higher prices. Washington can make it easier to get a mortgage, but they cannot make a $400,000 property cost $300,000 we talked about how to borrow to win today, and big thanks to our terrific guest. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, though you might quit your day job, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  37:17   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you   Keith Weinhold  37:45   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

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Keith shows how simple buy-and-hold real estate can be a powerful path to long-term wealth.  He explains how the tax system and inflation often reward property owners—especially those with fixed-rate debt and rental income—turning modest rent increases into outsized gains in cash flow. Keith also explores how broader economic forces and neighborhood trends shape real estate markets, and why even an extra $1,000 a month in passive income can meaningfully increase your freedom, reduce reliance on a single job, and move you closer to financial independence. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/603 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold. Learn how rent inflation makes real estate investors wealthy. Do certain grocery stores in your neighborhood stoke real estate prices, then how just $1,000 of extra monthly cash flow can be surprisingly life changing. Today, on get rich education,   Keith Weinhold  0:24   Let me ask you something, if you've worked hard to build wealth, is your money positioned to actually support your goals? A lot of accredited investors leave capital sitting in cash because it feels safe, but inflation and missed income opportunities can quietly erode its value. Freedom. Family investments offers freedom notes for investors seeking structured income backed by real estate. It's a straightforward approach built on real assets, not speculation and full disclosure. I'm an investor myself. What I like is that their team walks you through how it all works, so you can decide if it aligns with your portfolio and income goals. Every investment carries risk and nothing is guaranteed, but with a track record of consistent on time investor payouts, they built real credibility. Go to freedom. Familyinvestments.com to book a clarity call or text. Family 266, 866, that's family 268, 66   Speaker 1  1:28   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. You Chris,   Keith Weinhold  1:44   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it's the show that coined the phrase real estate pays five ways. This is get rich education. You learned how to work at your job. The reason we're here is to make you aware that capital compounds labor doesn't, and that's almost why you have to be an investor today. A couple weeks ago, we had tax day in the USA, and that's not quite a holiday. Virtually no one celebrates it. Yes, here in our 250th year of existence as a nation that erstwhile mentioned semi quincentennial. How did America go from fighting a revolution over a 2% tax on a breakfast beverage at the Boston Tea Party to what we pay today? Have you really processed what this has come to now we're taxed when we earn money, taxed when we spend it, taxed when we save it, taxed when we invest it, even taxed when we die with it. And that's just the start. Think about your typical day, your routine. We commute to work in a car, were taxed to register driving on roads. Were taxed to build fueled by gas that's taxed again and then often paying tolls on top of that. Well, those taxes are supposed to maintain the infrastructure, like bridges, highways and tunnels, but yet, they already have billions of taxpayer dollars allocated to them. Then we arrive at an office that's taxed to exist inside a business that's taxed to operate that requires permits and licenses that act like other layers of taxation. When we finally get our paycheck, our employer matches payroll taxes on top of our wages, just incredible. And at the end of the day, we go home to a property we're taxed to own every single year, purchased with income that was already taxed in the first place, and somehow all of this is considered normal. Here's the turning point. Most people when they realize this, feel frustrated and saddened and even victimized. But instead, real estate investors flip the frame from victim to strategist, the same system that taxes seemingly everything quietly rewards those who own assets through depreciation, we report a loss even when the property produces real cash flow. Last week, I told you how you can specifically lower your property taxes step by step, then through mortgage interest and operating expenses, we can reduce that amount of our income that's even taxable at all through long term leverage, we're often repaying debt with inflated dollars, while our tax burden stays surprisingly low, and then it gets even more power. Powerful, more advanced real estate investors use a cost segregation and bonus depreciation to pull years of deductions forward into today. And it's something that's not really that sophisticated or tough to understand either. And then when we sell a property 1031, and 721, exchanges help us defer the capital gains tax. And when you start to think about it, could these turnabouts even get us patriotically excited for a dare I say, semi quincentennial.   Keith Weinhold  5:36   our system of taxation, it can feel punitive. Some high earners lose more than 55% of their income to taxes, both federal and state. Real estate investors don't just earn gains in income. We reshape it. We continue to thrive in a tax system that rewards ownership. Not only is wealth built from owning things rather than having a high salary, tax breaks are gained by owning things rather than having a high salary. And now it's somewhat common knowledge that war leads to inflation. The latest Middle East conflict entails a lot of military spending, and it's been made worse by disrupting an energy producing region. Four weeks ago, I told you about why wars are inflationary and just how bad it can get. That is why the first major wartime inflation reading that we got was so telling. And wow, inflation grew at the fastest annual rate from one month to the next since the pandemic spike back in 2022 it went from 2.4% up to now 3.3% just like that. And with more inflation poised to come along, even if the war winds down, and I want to talk more about how this benefits you shortly. And yes, if you're a newer listener, you're not used to inflation benefiting you, but it benefits the educated and the aware. GRE listener. And first, here's what fewer people pay attention to. M2 money supply that's jumped 4.8% annually to a record of almost $23 trillion now the money supply, this is the 24th consecutive monthly increase the supply was only about $5 trillion back in 2000 10 trillion by 2012, 15 trillion in 2020, and then the pandemic made the money supply explode, and it's almost 23 trillion today. And what does this all mean that the US dollar is losing purchasing power at a historic pace, because, look, inflation is actually not rising prices. The thing that's now up to 3.3% the CPI. Rather, inflation is an expansion of the money supply. It inflates. That is the very etymology of the word people often overlook that. That's why I'm talking about the historic expansion rate of the money supply, and how that can show up in higher prices later. High prices are not inflation. Rather, they are a consequence of inflation. And I want to tell you more about what this means to you, and explain how this builds your wealth in a new way. But first, I mean, my gosh, have you been as flabbergasted about inflation as I am, just at the consumer shelf and aisle level in a store, and I'm a guy that likes to spend money, yet I've got to say sticker shock. It still gives me pause when I'm in a store, even on the cheapest of items, I recently went inside a gas station convenience store after I filled up a regular size York Peppermint Patty, 1.4 ounces cost $3.19 this consequence of inflation has left me slack jawed, but already was a Slack jaw however, has it left you slack jawed? All right, let me tell you about how the wildly overpriced York Peppermint Patty makes real estate investors rich in their sleep. Did you know that the classic economist, Milton Friedman, discussed the concept of get rich. Education's inflation, Triple Crown, essentially. Now we didn't call it that. In fact, he discussed it before GRE existed in 2014 let's listen into this. Friedman won a Nobel Prize in 1976 I'm going to guess that this is him speaking in about 1980 essentially, he. Discuss the first two crowns, which are also the ones that homeowners with a mortgage benefit from which are asset price, inflation and debt debasement. This is about two minutes in length.   Speaker 3  10:11   If I ask people, are you in favor of inflation or not? Everybody is against inflation. But when I explore a little bit further, if I say to people, tell me, have you gained from inflation? Oh, no, you say I haven't gained. And yet, the fact is that a great many people have gained from inflation. There are many, many people who have benefited. Of course, the major gainer from inflation is the federal treasury, as I've already said, but almost everybody who has bought a home in the past 30 years has gained from inflation. He was able to borrow on a mortgage, which inflation has paid off, along with paying off the government debt, so that almost all homeowners in this country are beneficiaries from inflation. Indeed, one of the things that makes inflation such a bad social disease is precisely that it tends to be divisive, because some people do very well during an inflation period, and some people do very badly. And as a result, the population gets split into people who are seeming in great prosperity and people who are in great distress. When most people say they want to stop inflation, what they mean is that they want the prices of the things they buy to go down and the prices of the things they sell to go up. But since what one man sells is what another man buys, that's a neat trick, if you can do it. And as a result, people aren't really serious when they say they want to stop inflation, certainly not in the early stages, not before they fully understand, not before it's gotten to the point where it is really creating serious social problems. Everybody wants to stop inflation at somebody else's expense.   Keith Weinhold  12:11   That was classical macro economist Milton Friedman discussing the rarely talked about benefits of inflation. He also served as an advisor to President Reagan and to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher Friedman extolled the virtues of free markets and minimal government intervention. Well, yeah, he discussed the first two crowns of get rich, education's inflation, triple crown. So let me discuss the third one, because you benefit from this when you rent out property. And what's interesting about what I'm going to tell you is that this example is going to make it more apparent than it ever has to you, that rent inflation makes landlords rich in their sleep. In fact, the positive effect on you is even greater than I thought I double checked these numbers I'm about to share with you before I came on the air, because I didn't expect this high of a degree of cash flow enhancement. And also, I was talking about what I'm going to show you on YouTube earlier, and it generated a negative, biting comment from a viewer. I'll tell you about that, but yeah, I showed this to a guy that's been investing in real estate for 36 years, and he didn't even understand this. Here it is with general monetary inflation. Rent inflation is a consequence. So let's keep this simple. Say that you charge rent of $2,000 and that could very well be a realistic rent amount for a single family rental property that our GRE investment coaches help you find today, although the average is probably a little less than that. So in any case, $2,000 rent. When you subtract out your fixed rate mortgage payment of $1,000 and your operating expenses of $800 This leaves you with $200 of monthly cash flow. We'll say that's your scenario today. Next rents rise 3% This means you're getting $2,060 now. Doesn't sound so exciting, yet your mortgage payment stays locked in at $1,000 inflation can't touch it. That's the key to this. Your operating expenses also rise 3% up to $824 This leaves you with cash flow of 236 okay. So what happened there is your cash flow went from 200 up to 236 that's not a 3% gain, inflation gain 3% this is an 18% increase in your income. 200 up to 236, an 18% cash flow spike off just a tiny rent adjustment will extrapolate that effect. Right across your portfolio. I mean, this is like your annual income going from 100k up to 118k and then compounding like that every single year. That is power, because inflation couldn't touch your fixed mortgage payment. And this is something I've explained before. It's the third crown of get rich education's inflation Triple Crown called Cash Flow enhancement. But it's a better example than I've ever had for it, and it's a germane time to talk about it with inflation on the rise again. Now here's an angle. Does what I just explained feel wrong in any way. The thing is, you aren't fleecing your tenant. It's just an adjustment to inflation, a little 3% bump to them, a big 18% difference to you. You didn't get rich off your tenant. You got rich because, again, you're leveraging the bank's money, but you're doing it in a way that most people don't see or think about and of course, mortgage free owners lose this entire benefit. It is just another way that real estate investors get rich in their sleep. Yet few ever understand how. But like I said, I was talking about this on YouTube just a little bit ago, and a commenter simply wrote, this makes you a bad person.   Keith Weinhold  16:27   Now, the viewer of GRE YouTube channel, sometimes it's you, but you know, sometimes it's someone that doesn't listen to this audio show here, where we do more learning, the casual or occasional YouTube viewer. They just probably don't understand all of what you do. But yes, like me, you have probably run into people out there that think that landlords are bad because they charge tenants rent and they adjust the rent as their expenses rise. And some of these people even say something like, I believe housing is a human right. I seem to hear that more and more, okay, that's one thing, but they imply that the taxpayer should pay for their housing. I mean, does that even work over time? You can see how often government provided housing fails and it ends up being exorbitantly expensive when the free market prevails. Instead, you know, I think that this sentiment has gotten a little worse because of the K shaped economy, more people having to sleep in their cars makes those people resentful. America, you know, we're in better shape when we have a strong middle class. What can really help you a lot is if you haven't yet. Finally, watch the three part video series, the inflation triple crown. The video really helps reinforce your learning well, because it's helpful to show numbers on screen, like you can in a video. You can watch that directly by going to get rich education. COMM, slash inflation, Triple Crown, or shorter. You can just go to the abbreviated get richeducation.com/itc, it takes you to the same place. It really shows you how to optimize your income increases and do it the right way. I mean, if someone thinks you're a bad person for raising the rent 3% commensurate with 3% inflation, well, you know what? Then if that person is an employee, should they also feel bad for getting a 3% pay raise at work? Well then they should, right, because they're charging their employer 3% more for their services as an employee. Well, of course, that's okay. So that sentiment doesn't make one bit of sense, all right. Well, let's temper the 3% rent inflation that I used in our example here. There's both bad news and good news around this, because today, rent increases are below average nationally. In fact, Zillow has forecast only a 1.1% rent increase in single family rentals this year. And then the good news is that the average rent increase since 2020 is 6% and we only used 3% in our example. The bottom line here is that few real estate investors ever have the epiphany that cashflow enhancement is yet another significant way that inflation makes them wealthy, and it's just another reason why carefully selected simple buy and hold. Residential real estate makes people wealthy. Just buy and hold you don't have to dig in and do a bunch of aggressive value add or get into a niche like self storage or short term rentals or assisted living homes that you sure can do those things. And there's nothing wrong with niching down. You just don't have to, and sometimes we even discuss those nichey vehicles here on the show. In fact, we've done four episodes on assisted living homes, but it's hard to beat the relative passivity and the durability of simple buy and hold residential not the latest hot thing, not speculation, but just what's proven. But you have to understand these forces and then act on them. I mean, I gave an example there of $200 in cash flow, and since that's only the most visible component of the five ways real estate pays. When you add it all up, you might be getting $1,500 of monthly benefit on a single family rental property that only costs 300k 1500 a month on a 300k property that you might have only put 20% down on. And for that 1500 a month, it might only take one hour per month of your asset managing of your property to get that $1,500 of benefits. So that is $1,500 an hour. That's great, but it's only one hour a month, and that's exactly what makes you want to scale with buy and hold property as soon as you get into a lot of real estate niches, which, again, it can be worthwhile, whether that's self storage or assisted living homes or something like that. Well, now it's more like an active business that you have to run, and you're probably going to spend substantially more hours there. But yes, a guy that's been investing in real estate for 36 years. Did not understand cash flow enhancement from Rent inflation until I showed this to him and watch it all. He watched the three part video series, which, again, you can watch for free at get rich education.com/inflation. Triple Crown or shortened simply, get rich education.com/itc. Open it up now and watch it later, because I'm back with more next. I'm Keith Weinhold on episode 603 of get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  22:13   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721 the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g R, E,    Keith Weinhold  22:49   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Tarek El Moussa  23:23   What's up? Everyone? This is hgtvs Tarek El Moussa. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  23:30   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I'm here in Las Vegas today and staying at the Bellagio with a terrific fountain view room. Yes, the paradox of having a giant water show every 30 minutes in the middle of the Mojave Desert, as it is today, just up the street at the Venetian the big Bitcoin 2026, conference kicks off. I might attend some of the sessions, and I might not. While I'm here in Vegas, I'm more focused on spending time with my brother's family. I know I've mentioned to you before that they live in nearby Henderson, Nevada, and I come here pretty often. You could call me a real estate investor. That's crypto curious. I own a little Bitcoin because I think it has some compelling value propositions as well as a number of problems. I think, like a lot of people, I have more questions about Bitcoin than I do answers, and each time I get a new answer, it just prompts three new questions. Now I plan to shop at Trader Joe's shortly. I'm kind of a weirdo here in Vegas, in the sense that I don't gamble, and rather than eating every one of my meals out, I like to be a little healthy shop at a grocery store and bring good food back to the fridge in my room. Well, how? Do certain grocery store chains impact local real estate prices. And you might have heard about this before, but there's a good new study about it that just appeared in the USA Today. And I kind of like the USA Today, because you can easily find a USA Today article where a columnist wrote a story about me as well. But what happened is an analyst matched more than 32,000 store openings to property prices over 50 years. And one conclusion found that homes in the same zip code as a trader joe's saw their values rise about 6% faster than the national average over three years. Another study found that over five years, home prices near Trader Joe's rose by 49% compared with 45% for homes near Whole Foods and 58% near Aldi. I wouldn't have expected that Aldi is a low cost bargain grocery store. Now there are a couple twists here. First, a higher end grocery store, like Whole Foods, that might very well correlate with a good, more affluent neighborhood, sure, but it also might reflect the fact that home values are high, and that usually is not profitable for long term rentals. And the other takeaway is that grocery stores don't actually cause price appreciation. Instead, they reflect it. These grocery chains, they really invest heavily in site selection, so their presence signals that an area was already trending upward, even before a Trader Joe's arrives in an area, the median household income in a neighborhood hovers around $82,000 and that was the highest in the chains that were studied with a typical home value of 425k and the flip side is also pretty noteworthy, the study found that Walmarts tend to be built in neighborhoods with an average household income of only $49,000 and home values of under 200k plus the home price appreciation Proximus to a Walmart, it ends up trailing the national average by 4% over three years. So really, can we say then that the K shaped economy runs through the grocery aisle? I want to get back to discussing your wealth shortly, but first, let's have a checkup on the economy that you're invested inside every day. Over the past year, the US economy has continued to do well, which has surprised some people, some saying that the economy seems to defy gravity. I mean, look at this point. It has withstood chaotic tariff changes, labor supply shocks, swings to the stock market and then a kinetic war on top of that. And how is it pulling this off? Probably starting with AI investment, including all the data center building you see taking place technology innovation and a consumer that you know, it's funny all these consumer surveys where the consumer feels negative, probably because they keep seeing higher prices, but yet, even though they feel negative, oh, they just keep spending more anyway, the unemployment rate is still really low. The AI build out is significant, and that drives jobs and rents and incomes realize, though, this is a new infrastructure build out. This is substantial, just like railroads in the internet were, and companies racing not to fall behind in the AI boom, that's exactly what fuels the economy and productivity and therefore supports real estate. It's similar in spirit, to the.com boom, really, but this time, there's real revenue, and it ALL Fuels wage growth, which is an antecedent to rent growth. And by the way, have you ever noticed how economists and corporations, they're so addicted to growth in the notion of growth, that if something goes down in value, they call it negative growth. What is negative growth? That's always been a funny phrase to me. Don't you mean a decline? Negative growth? That's kind of like calling growth a positive decline. That's nonsense. Some people are allergic to saying that something is a dip or decline, so instead, they say that it's negative growth. That's sort of like how companies they don't want to say that they're undergoing a round of layoffs instead of layoffs. Oh, they say that we are right sizing. She should just tell it like it is. Now, when it comes to building your wealth, this. Say that you're more of a beginning real estate investor, say that your income from your job is 100k and you might wonder, if I add, say, five properties each with $200 a monthly cash flow, that equals $1,000 a month. That's an extra 12k per year. You know, that really isn't that much of a lifestyle difference. You know, even though there are four other ways real estate pays, let's just talk about this. That's only 12k per year, on top of 100k You know, I contend that that really does make quite a difference. Okay, if your real estate cash flow gets up to 1k a month, and you might only spend four hours a month managing that. It matters more than you think, because of your 100k of job income. All right, after all, your expenses are taken care of, like you pay for your housing, your transportation, your Trader Joe's, groceries, all of that stuff that you spend on. Well, what's left over your discretionary income? That might only be $2,000 per month. So if you add 1000 to that, that is a 50% increase in your discretionary income. What really matters? That's why real estate cash flow is actually a bigger deal than a lot of people think. You just bought back your time. This can help you replace a second job. This can let you cut back hours or even fund a sabbatical buffer for beginners. That's why even a kind of paltry sounding $1,000 a month in cash flow from, say, five rental doors that can actually be a life changer. When you get right down to it, it really starts to change your control over your time, and an extra $1,000 a month can, of course, help fuel your next investment, if you so choose. But that's not all. A psychological shift begins to happen inside you. You're no longer dependent on one income source. This is really the underrated one, because before $1,000 of real estate cash flow, a job loss that could mean stress and urgency and bad decisions, but afterward, now you have margin. Now you're making better decisions in life. You negotiate better you think longer term. That shift alone improves your entire life. And what else can just 1000 a month do for you an extra 1000, it can give you lifestyle upgrades without guilt. Let's say you do spend some of it that can fund travel without touching savings, that can give you better housing or a better location, that can give you experiences instead of a life of what feels like just bills. And here's the key, it does not cannibalize your future. Just $1,000 a month gives you options, like we say around here, don't live below your means. Grow your means. I mean, if you're a beginner, this is something that you could have in less than a year. That extra 1k that comes whether you work that day or not. And for a more advanced investor, you can imagine what multiples greater than 1k per month do. So can you see how everything compounds here? Capital compounds labor doesn't earlier, I discussed how even a 3% rent bump can increase your cash flow 18% all right, and then your cash flow has a greater impact than you thought, because it is discretionary income where a small change can make a world of difference in your life. And when you layer all these things together, it almost makes you wonder why more people aren't real estate investors. Well, most people just have not had it explained to them this way before, and then other people give up after starting in real estate because they don't buy the right property in the right market.    Keith Weinhold  34:16   Here at GRE we really help you avoid those mistakes. And in fact, let me give you an example of what I mean. This can really help. Redfin reports that national home prices have jumped up again, rising 2.1% annually, but yet, a place like Florida, they still have year over year housing price declines, not negative growth declines, and that's due to a temporary overbuild, like I've talked about before. But Cape Coral, Florida homes that area has been hit harder than most with more building than most places, they're actually down in price 3.8% it looks like an opportunity, and people say they want an opportunity. What they really want is certainty, and once certainty arrives, the opportunity is gone. Winners often embrace the heterodox. They're willing to lean into the sort of uncomfortable, mildly contrarian, awkward moment right when others are hesitating, some Florida brand new property builders. They're getting creative, and the translation to creative is that they are motivated. They're offering to throw in the kitchen sink and the backsplash. Here's one example, a duplex in Cape Coral, Florida. The listing price is 550k it's in an A class neighborhood. The rent is 3890 both sides of the duplex are already leased, six beds, four baths. It's 2474 square feet. The down payment you can expect to make is 25% the projected cash flow is up to $1,096 per month. Yeah, you've potentially got your surprisingly life changing 1k in cash flow in one fell swoop here and here's where it gets interesting, a 3.75% mortgage rate, buy down and one year of free property management. They're either giving you that or take $25,000 cash instead and structure your own advantage. All right, that's what this certain builder is offering. Now, a reputable builder, in fact, they've been a guest on the show here before. You can push the envelope a little further than that. I encourage you to make an offer below the list price on these property types. Yes, offer lower than the 550k how much lower should you go? That's where a free chat with our investment coach gives you an inside edge, because, see, they know what other offer amounts were accepted previously by these sellers, so they know where the real flexibility is, and they've got all kinds of what I'll call specific deal knowledge like this that you're just not going to find anywhere else. Our coaches can also help you with other inventory, if it better meets your personal objectives than something like a Florida new build duplex. Usually, those places are in the Midwest and South, from Ohio out to Missouri and Georgia out to Texas. In full disclosure, what I just described is a better deal than any Florida properties that I personally own myself. Now it is clearly a buyer's market in Florida. We're in that fleeting window where long term demand is strong, short term supply is high, and builders are motivated. So take the free consult, or maybe no properties are right for you. Once our coach learns more, if you're interested, we can help you structure a smart offer. Talk to us. We can help you build an entire portfolio, if you so choose, and find the right markets and properties with a management solution, we've got the team and the contacts, you can make your process easier than guessing and figuring it out on your own. Often like to leave you with something actionable at the end of the show. I encourage you, if you think it's right for you, book time with a friendly GRE investment coach@greinvestmentcoach.com you can find an open slot on their calendar and book it again@greinvestmentcoach.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  38:54   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively,   Keith Weinhold  39:14   the pre preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

Warmer weather has brought the lovebugs, but they're really good for gardensCarnival Cruise Line is bringing its newest Excel-class ship in 2028Do you love where you're at? Or is another job still calling your name?

Send us Fan MailTired of spending all your time trying to connect with all your patients' insurance companies? Yeah, us too. We were so excited that one of our favorite guest hosts, Dr. Tanya Sue Maestas, sat down with Shreyas Parab to give us the inside scoop on DayDream Dental, a full-service & integrative dental billing company that frees up your time for clinical and patient experience. We can't get over how fast and easy DayDream makes the payment process for dentists! ✨Learn More: https://www.daydream.dental/

Esta semana, en nuestras Islas de Noche.... Suenan: BEAU BRUMMELS - "Just a Little" ("INTRODUCING THE BEAU BRUMMELS, 1965) / THE TURTLES - "Wanderin' Kind" ("IT AIN'T ME BABE", 1965) / THE HOLLIES - "Tell Me to My Face" ("FOR CERTAIN BECAUSE", 1966) / THE ZOMBIES - "Nothing's Changed" (1965) / THE ROLLING STONES - "Play With Fire" (1965) / LOVE - "Softly to Me" ("LOVE", 1966) / THE BYRDS - "What's Happening?" ("FIFTH DIMENSION", 1966) / GENE CLARK - "The Same One" ("GENE CLARK WITH GOSDIN BROTHERS", 1967) / THE YOUNGBLOODS - "Foolin' Around (The Waltz)" ("THE YOUNGBLOODS", 1967) / MOBY GRAPE - "Sitting By The Window" ("MOBY GRAPE", 1967) / KALEIDOSCOPE - "Please" ("SIDE TRIPS", 1967) / CLEAR LIGHT - "A Child's Smile" ("CLEAR LIGHT", 1967) / TIM BUCKLEY - "I Can't See You" ("TIM BUCKLEY", 1966) / BLACKBURN & SNOW - "Takin' It Easy" (1966) / GRASSROOTS - "This Precious Time" ("LET'S LIVE FOR TODAY", 1967) / LEFT BANKE - "Shadows Breaking Over My Head" ("WALK AWAY RENEE/PRETTY BALLERINA", 1967) / KINKS - "Rainy Day in June" ("FACE TO FACE", 1966) / LOVIN' SPOONFUL - Didn't Want To Have To Do It ("DAYDREAM", 1966) /Escuchar audio

Music fan Brian Koppen chats with music critic Callum McLean as they discuss Hall of Fame artists:Buddy Holly's “Everyday” vs. Stevie Wonder's “Golden Lady”Kraftwerk's “Home Computer” vs. LL Cool J's “Around the Way Girl”Bruce Springsteen's “Tenth Avenue Freeze Out” vs. Gil Scott-Heron's “New York is Killing Me”Tom Waits' “Anywhere I Lay My Head” vs. James Brown's “It's a Man's Man's World (Live)”Lovin' Spoonful's “Daydream” vs. David Bowie's “Sound and Vision”Donna Summer's  “I Feel Love” vs. Dave Clark Five's “Glad All Over”Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers' “Learning to Fly” vs. Talking Heads' “Cities” They also discuss Hot Chip, Mamas & Papas' “Creeque Alley,” RHCP vs. Buckethead, and DMX. Check out Callum McLean at https://callummclean.me/! Intro music is from Jussy's Down Open Roads.  Check out Jussy at https://soundcloud.com/user-214048265/sets/jussy-demos-1!Support the show

Coming May 6th, Gen and Jette are heading to the creek for some more teen drama. Still in Wilmington but we no longer have to wait. It's time for Dawson's Creek! Dawson crying meme included.More love triangles, filmmaking, big words, and so much pretention. With some of the most dramatic teen drama of the time, join us in this spring for for Dawson's Creek.

Keith explains how to increase real estate cash flow by appealing and reducing property taxes.  Then welcomes high‑energy real estate investor and educator Thach Nguyen.  Thach shares his refugee‑to‑multimillionaire story, breaks down his roadmap to retiring with rentals, and explains how ADUs (Accessory Dwelling Units) are transforming both investor returns and affordable housing—especially in Seattle. Resources: Follow @ThachNguyen on Instagram and all major social platforms. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/602 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about how to increase your cash flow by obtaining a successful appeal and reduction in your property taxes. Then real estate personality Thatch Nguyen and I discuss mindset and some creative real estate techniques today on get rich education,   Keith Weinhold  0:23   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 1  0:57   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:13   Welcome to GRE from Mount Holly New Jersey to Hollywood, California and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education, and I'm still not wearing Dockers, and I am in Hollywood, California today. More on that later. Among all the major investment classes when it's bought right real estate is the second safest investment class to bonds. Bonds are the safest among them all. Real estate has the highest returns, so it's the second safest and has the highest returns. And that's why it's our focus on this show. But if you want to be in real estate for two years or less, well, then it's likely best to invest elsewhere, at least with long term rentals, because you need time to defray your transaction cost. And for real estate pays five ways to start compounding. Coming up shortly, it's pretty popular real estate personality Thatch Nguyen. He will be here, and I did not know Thatch until recently, when we were introduced by our mutual friend Scott Saunders. And Scott, who I had on the show here a few years ago, is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet in real estate. Well, besides those high return, low risk real estate attributes. Of course, when you own property directly, you also get a big measure of control if you want it. Now, control comes really with that option A lot of times to get involved and make your real estate investing less passive, just an option, because successful real estate can be as simple as buy and hold, but today we're discussing strategies. If you want to get a little hands on, if you so choose, you can attempt a successful appeal of the amount of property tax that you're paying. And of course, every dollar that you lower your property tax is $1 where you increase your income. And this feels like a germane conversation, since tax day in the USA was just last week. Ah, yes, property tax, hmm, it's like a version of the government charges you rent on your own property in perpetuity. That's what it is. And before I get into how to potentially get your property tax lowered, property taxes are under pressure. Some states are still making their serious push to completely eliminate the property tax, namely in Florida, Texas and Indiana. Those are three of the front running states, probably the big three. And I won't get into all of that again, because I devoted an episode segment to that topic a few months back. Others are considering elimination too, Georgia, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, but it's just more talk than anything in those six states. Now, if a state undertook property tax abolition, it would probably only apply to owner occupied property, homeowners or voters, and those property values would soar. But these new comparables, what they could do, in turn, is lift the value of your out of state rental property as well, because you could always sell your investment property to an owner occupant. But in my opinion, no state is going to eliminate the property tax. I mean, sheesh, it's kind of like trying to eliminate gravity. It's just too hard to replace the revenue from elsewhere. Schools, police and fire and infrastructure heavily rely on property tax, so instead, what's realistic is a tax cap, a ceiling on the amount of property tax that you pay, and with an income producing property of course, your tenant essentially pays the property tax for you now, even before buying a property or for one that you already own, the most accurate way you can check the tax amount for your exact address is on the county assessor's website.    Keith Weinhold  5:38   The next best places are listing websites like Zillow and Redfin. This is all public information. The way to find a county assessor's website for your property is with a simple four word search. What you should google is the county name, and then the words assessor property search, those are the only four words that you need. And then what if you discover that you're paying more than you are for nearby, similar properties? Oh, well, there we go. That's a sign that you're over paying. You can usually file an appeal form at the same website. And before we talk about how to do it, realize that only about 5% of property owners ever file an appeal, and in a bit, I'll tell you what your percent chance for success is at lowering your property tax, your chances of it being lowered. So if you believe that you have a case for lower property taxes, first, it helps to know what you're arguing. And this is important, it's something that can trip you up. You're actually not arguing that taxes are too high. You're arguing my property is overvalued compared to the market. That's it. That's your basis of contention. Yeah, if you walk in talking about things like fairness or inflation or government spending, then you've already lost the county assessor's office isn't the place for your best rant on how fiat currency is garbage or something like that. Now you might not even have to physically walk in anywhere today. Sometimes you can get your appeal rewarded informally. Other times you go before what's called a Board of Equalization in most places and in person, hearings have become less common. Video calls have become quite a bit more common since the pandemic, but you want to review your property details with them. You want to be sure to point out if there's incorrect square footage or the wrong lot size, or missing depreciation, or condition issues or upgrades that are overstated and even small errors can swing your value by 10s of 1000s of dollars and then, and it's whether this is with rental property or with your own home build your comparables Like an investor, not a homeowner, because this is really where you win or lose. You need three to five strong comparable sales in the same neighborhood, or really close ones that sold recently, ideally within the last six months, and they should be of a similar size and age and condition. And then make adjustments. Inferior comps support a lower value. And we don't just want to cherry pick garbage comps. We want to keep it credible, and then for your best chance of getting your property tax lowered, find your angle, and really this is your leverage point. Most winning appeals hinge on one clear argument, either a condition gap, meaning that your property is worse than the comps are, or it's an argument like market timing, and this is if values have softened since the assessment date, or the income approach for rentals. Therefore it's the value based on noi, not emotion. You could take that track or other external issues like noise or location drawbacks or obsolescence, so only pick one of those four primary arguments here, condition, gap, market timing, the income approach or external issues and document everything. This is really where you separate yourself. You want to show photos and have them dated and be clear and honest. Nothing dramatic there repair estimates or contractor bids, inspection reports, rent rolls or income statements. So you're not telling a story. You're presenting evidence this way, and be sure to package it cleanly. This matters more than you think. Assessors see sloppy appeals all day. So you're going to stand out by being organized and concise, like a one to two page summary and some exhibits, and keeping it professional meaning, no emotional language, so you're making it clean and easy for them to agree with you, and this is the place to be. Calm and not combative. It isn't a debate club. It's the right form to be respectful, stick to facts, not interrupt and not get defensive, because the person across from you, they actually did not set your rate, they didn't set your tax rate, they're evaluating your evidence, and then it's helpful for you to know the likely outcome. You don't need a gigantic win, even a five to 10% reduction, that can mean 1000s saved over your life of owning the property. You want to remember that some jurisdictions are more flexible than others, and if you're denied informally, like just doing it online, then you can often escalate your property a tax appeal to a board review. And this is a long game, not every swing is going to end up in a base hit. Investors have an advantage. If you own rentals, you've really got a stronger argument, because you can use that income based verification like cap rate and noi, you can show actual rent versus market rent, and you can highlight your expenses, and assessors often default to sales comps. So this is how you can shift the frame here. The blunt truth is that when people lose appeals, it's usually because they show up unprepared, or they argue emotionally, or they just don't understand valuation. And so this is one of those rare moments where being methodical is actually better than being smart. 40 to 60% of property tax appeals succeed nationwide, and with professional level prep, you can make that 70 to 80% for a success rate, and the typical result if you win is a 10 to 15% reduction in assessed value. So that can be worth doing. And you know, just like buying your first out of state rental property seems to be the hardest. Making your first property tax appeal seems to be the hardest as well. And there you go a way to reduce your expenses and increase your cash flow. Yes, I am in LA today, West Hollywood, California. Though I do expect to produce some real estate media here. That's not the typical Hollywood type filmmaking that I'm doing, I just happen to be staying in Hollywood, although I do plan to run up to the Hollywood sign and do some fun stuff out at Venice Beach. Later next week, I will be in Las Vegas, and will probably even bring you the show from the Bellagio with a view of the Bellagio fountain. As for this week, let's meet our guest.   Keith Weinhold  12:49   This week's guest has an amazingly powerful story. Today. He's quite well known in real estate circles for his high energy in person events, but he came to the United States as a Vietnamese refugee, experienced homelessness early in life, and went on to build a real estate portfolio valued at over $100 million I'm not making light of the fact that he's homeless. Once I started talking about this, he kind of, you know, beat his chest a little bit. He's a high energy, playful guy here, but he's completed more than 1000 real estate projects and transactions through his mentorship program, he's helped 1000s of people build long term Real Estate Wealth with his platform, it's called springboard to wealth, and along the way, he's built a strong audience, with 1.4 million followers on Instagram. Hey, welcome to the show Thatch Nguyen.   Thach Nguyen  13:41   I'm honored to be here, my man, I'm honored   Keith Weinhold  13:43   to hear, Oh, it's so good to do it Thatch. And before we're done, we'll discuss some actionable tactics. But first, that is just an amazing story to have started from homelessness. I guess I'm most interested to know what you would identify as kind of that turning point from destitution to success. Talk to us about that.   Thach Nguyen  14:03   You know, coming from Vietnam, we was a refugee. We left out of the last plane. My dad was a translator for the US Army. Back in the days, military pulled out of South Vietnam during the war, they asked my dad, would you want to leave with us? And so we decided to leave. But of course, my dad, the owner, who actually spoke some bit of English. None of us didn't speak no English. We only had $100 one suitcase for eight of us, gosh, and I was five years old. But if my dad didn't leave, he would have been captured, and then he would have been killed. Because you work for the US government, because it's still, you know, is a communist country, right? And so we left, we came over here, we landed in San Diego, lived in the shelter out there, and then we moved up to Washington State, Seattle, and lived in a shelter there for a few months. And then finally, we lived in a sponsorship house, right, with a guy named Charles Zettler. I graduated from high school in. 88 I went off to fix aviation airplane my two older brother, because they in the aviation business. And then I got a job working for Alaska. But I didn't want to leave to Denver to go work out there, so I decided to stay back. And I went to work at, you know, like, odd job, like at a body shop. I was the dairy manager at a grocery store, like, called Ralph. Was called Safeway, and I was parking car in Chinatown. And I think the pivoting point was, I'm sitting there, and one of my friends says, you know, you would do very well in real estate, yeah, because you have a good energy, you have a good mouthpiece, I think you do well, see, but I didn't hear all that. I heard you get 7% commission checks. Oh, Sign me up. You know what? I think, but I didn't realize quickly, selling real estate, you don't make that kind of money unless you do a lot of volume. I got to real estate. I started doing well in real estate as a agent. But the tipping point, I think, for me, was a mentor named Saul. And Saul said to me, Keith, I know you appreciate this. He said, You can be rich selling real estate for the rest of your life. Yeah, you'll never be wealthy unless you own the real estate, right? And that was the light bulb that came off of me that I need to take the money I make from selling real estate to then Park the money in long term rental. But I didn't quit my real estate. I just bought real estate, rented it, let it ride. And I just kept selling real estate for years. And at the moment I made, the more property I bought. The moment I make, the more property I bought. And then from there, I just start to learn new construction. I start to learn fix and flip. I start to learn about the BRRRR strategy. And then today, you know, we're going to talk more about this. But today, the hot thing is adu and accessory dwelling unit, and that's what I do a lot today is a lot of new construction, a lot of ADUs.   Keith Weinhold  16:49   Oh, that's great to hear about your come up. Fetch, yeah, I find it remarkable, too, the amount of people that are in the real estate industry, and they're doing something adjacent to being an investor, which I think is the best place to be. For example, they're a property manager, or they're a mortgage loan officer or the real estate agent, but yet they don't own rental real estate, right? They're so close. How could you not be doing this?   Thach Nguyen  17:13   And I say today, because I understand this. Now, if you don't take the active income you make from whatever you do, say, as a real estate agent, then you always trading your time for money for the rest of your life, and you're always on that treadmill and that grind, but you can't get off, because the moment you get off, Keith, you got no income, and you got no passive income either. So you're stuck on this wheel like a hamster that you got to keep running until you old and die.   Keith Weinhold  17:40   Well, you know, it's unavoidable to talk about you've got the word mindset on big letters on a hooded sweatshirt that you're wearing right now, so, you know, I think you're touching on it somewhat. But yeah, talk to us more about this mindset and how to break through the barriers. Because most people's connotation with income is merely that they have got to trade their time for dollars.   Thach Nguyen  18:01   Of course, you know, mindset is 80% of the result that we want, that we get. Because someone could have a mindset to go, I'm going to be the top real estate agent, and that mindset would drive them to be the top agent for many, many year. But they always trade their time for money so they never get wealthy. I have that mindset because I was selling 100 homes a year in my early 20s. But when Saul said to me, you know one day that when you get into your 40s and your 50s, do you want to keep trading time for money, or do you want to trade your money for time? And see, that's a mindset shift. And of course, who want to be in their 50 Keith with a gun in their head, always trading time for money. And so when I heard that, it shifted the mindset to, you know what, I'm going to make money selling real estate because I need that money, then I'm going to take that money and park it into a rental. So when I get into my 40s and my 50s, I have the option to work or not work, and that was a mindset shift. So owning rental property is a mindset more than a strategy.   Keith Weinhold  19:08   I and I think a lot of us, came up with the mindset that, oh, you get wealthy by obtaining a high salary, and then no later, you learn you don't get wealthy through high salaries, especially if wealth equals freedom, you get wealthy through owning assets. So Thatch after you know your homelessness, and you're new to the United States, and you've come up like you described, and you realize that real estate is the way in doing it with a relative amount of passivity, rather than actively being in it as a realtor, you sort of get this roadmap for retiring with rental properties, even from starting at zero like you did. So tell us more about that roadmap to retire with rental properties.   Thach Nguyen  19:47   You know, when I started, I had this roadmap where you got to learn what you need to learn about real estate investing, what why do you want to own it? What's the benefit? What would it do for you? At the end of the day, and a lot of that is goals and vision and mindset. For me when I got clear Keith on the knowledge, because I start off with knowledge. And of course, I want to own real estate. But here's the thing I always want to say to people, nobody want to own real estate. Just to own real estate, right? They want to own real estate. So what it would actually do for you. And so for me, I think when I was younger, I was counting the doors, but now I got older and wiser, I count the hours I get to have back. So the mindset for me is that when I got clear what I wanted to do was I wanted, you know, the option of working at work, that I also wanted to retire my mom, my dad, right? And then I also wanted to actually help my kids learn how to do this one day, so that they have the same mindset. So those are the reason I in want to invest in real estate. Of course, have an asset, have a net worth, come along with a secondary so once I understand the knowledge of why I'm doing it, I got this clear vision. I got this horizon. Now I'm inspired to actually go out there and take action. Now the action is, what do I want to buy for me? I started with single family. I started with buying ugly houses and rehabbing and keeping it, and then worked my way into multifamily and apartment building, all doing value add today. So those are my action, right? So I'm inspired. I take the action, I make money doing what I'm doing. But then I asked myself, How many property do I need? But it's not even how many property I need. How much passive income do I need to get out of the rat race? I have the option of working at work. For me, when I was like, 21 years old, I said to myself, I have $30,000 a month in passive income, and I'm debt free. I mean, who couldn't live off 360,000 of you debt free, right? Yeah. So I had to go to go after so many doors based on what the rent is, to accumulate it and then to pay them down so I can be out of the rat race as soon as possible. And once I did that, then I started playing the game accumulation again. So today I have a whole set of properties paid off. That's why I have over 100,000 a month in passive income. But I also got a whole bunch of property paid off yet, which I don't care, because this ought to get paid up by itself anyway. But now I'm playing this game where I'm gonna accumulate more property or trade up at the same time pay down other property I want to pay off, so that when I get into my 60, my 70, a lot of it paid off, and I still got other property. I don't know. I don't mind accumulating, because I love to play the game of real estate. So this is the road map that I you know, that my mentor saw. He's a very wealthy Jewish man that taught me. And today I'm just taking that lived it my own life now I'm just sharing it back to other people   Keith Weinhold  22:42   that you said so many interesting things there. I think the most is how you talked about your metric is more outcome based. I think we all think through how many doors we have, and you know, even how much passive income that translates into, but you talked about how many hours you're able to win back way that you can quantify that.   Thach Nguyen  23:05   If I ask someone, I go, Hey, how much does it cost you to live personally every month? And most American will probably say, 10,15, 20,000, Max. And I said to them, what have you had that much in passive income? How would you feel? And 99.9% of it were like, my god, that will be amazing. But the problem we all go to the seminar, we see people on stage. They got 100 doors, 200 door. They got 1000 doors. And nobody needs that much to get out of the rat race, right? So I say the most American is, look how much it costs you to live. Look at the lifestyle you live. You have that in passive income, and if you choose to keep working in active income, it's just a cherry on top of the cake.   Keith Weinhold  23:47   Yeah, there are so many ways to do it. We talk here about being financially free rather than debt free, and sort of letting leverage and inflation in tenants work to our benefit. But you've got this separate way of doing it. You're listening to get rich education. We're talking with real estate, personality, Thatch Nguyen, more when we come back, including some actionable tactics. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,    Keith Weinhold  24:09   let me throw out a simple idea, sometimes doing nothing with your money is actually a decision. Leaving it parked might feel safe, but over time, purchasing power changes. So the conversation isn't about chasing returns, it's about intentionally placing money somewhere. Freedom, family investments works in real estate people use every day. Housing, senior communities, essential properties, things tied to living and not trends. Their freedom notes offering is built for accredited investors looking for structured income backed by real assets, not speculation. I am an investor with them myself. The Freedom team makes themselves available to walk through their approach, structure and operating philosophy so you can ask questions and determine. Alignment before moving forward, while past performance doesn't guarantee future results, their historical operating philosophy has yielded 100% investor payouts backed by over 20 years of experience. If you want clarity before making any moves, book a clarity call@freedomfamilyinvestments.com or text family to 66 866, text the word family to 66 866.    Keith Weinhold  25:31   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721 the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre,   Caeli Ridge  26:09   this is Ridge lending group's president, Shaylee ridge. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and remember, don't quit your Daydream. You Keith, welcome   Keith Weinhold  26:27   back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold we're talking with Thatch win real estate personality, and you know Thatch, on the way up, you've really employed a lot of methods. You're knowledgeable about House hacking and burrs and small multifamily in ADUs. ADUs is something that we haven't talked about here very much. And for those that don't know what that is, we're talking about an accessory dwelling unit, right? Typically, a secondary housing unit on the same lot as a primary residence. You can sort of think of it like a backyard cottage in a lot of cases. So tell us Thatch, what got you into ADUs,   Thach Nguyen  27:03   well, Seattle, about five years ago, was one of the first city and state to adapt this Adu, because the biggest problem we have across America is affordable housing, yeah, and a shortage of housing, let alone a shortage of affordable housing. So Seattle came up with, Hey, we will let you. Got built an accessory dwelling unit in the backyard, maximum 800 square feet, but you have to live in the front house to build the back house. Okay? People got excited. They built it so they can rent it in the back. They live in the front house. But then that didn't really solve as much affordable housing for you to buy. It helped with rental. And then about a year, you and a half later, they came over stage shoe to go, you know what? We're gonna allow up to 1000 square feet of adu. But you don't have to live in the front to build the back. Now, people got excited. Investors go, Oh my God, let me go buy a property. Let me go build something. Rent both of these out, right? And then if they want, they could sell the whole entire piece, you know, with somebody, and that was great, but it still wasn't enough. And then about a year you'd have, later, they came up with stage three. They go, You know what? We want to help create more housing for you to buy. So now what we're going to deal with, we're going to actually give people separate APN tax number for the house in the front and the adu in the back, so you can sell off any one of the and by doing that, they value the house as a single family, and they value the back as a single family, so they can comp it like a house, not as a duplex. And that blew the lid off. I mean, in Seattle, that was a game changer. I mean, like builders started coming in, they're buying property. They they building and they selling these. They're making a killer on it. And then show you how much crazy it is. Okay in Seattle, if you buy the house in the front, you gotta get the land the back freak, because it came with the house. We could build 1000 square foot all in it cost us about $400,000 but with a separate parcel number, they comp it as a regular house. So regular houses right about 1000 square feet, they sell for about $700,000 so you build for four is worth seven, and you can actually design it in four months. Get permit, because they have a special line for adu. And then you can build this. You can actually have it all done in one year. So you instantly create massive equity in one deal. But here's a beautiful part of it. In Seattle's expensive city, it's hard to get the 1% rule. You know the 1% rule with, you know 1% of what you pay for a property, a $200,000 house, you get $2,000 for rent with Seattle, a $700,000 house, you get 4000 but the Adu, it only cost us 400,000 but it's worth 700 but my mortgage is based on 400,000 I can write it for four grand, and I meet the 1% rule Now   Keith Weinhold  29:52   a way to recent rent to value ratio, right?   Thach Nguyen  29:56   So now Adu, they are all. All across America, because two years ago, all the city planners and all the people for other state they came to Seattle for a private, hush, hush meeting to ask Seattle How you guys doing this, and so they can go and copy. So in the last two year, Adu has spread across America like wildfire.   Keith Weinhold  30:19   This is great. Tell us more. And of course, it's going to depend on a lot of factors, but tell us more about that cash on cash return that you're getting after stabilization with an adu.   Thach Nguyen  30:29   Yeah, it's beautiful. So when you have a property that's worth 700 and it only costs you 400 it has so much equity, the bank will finance 100% of the construction cost, so you don't have to come up with no money. Great. So then if you finance 100% which is 400 right, 400,000 the mortgage only three grand, and you ran for four in Seattle with making positive cash flow with zero down payment. So that's infinite return on your money.    Keith Weinhold  30:56   Yes, that's a really beautiful thing to get the infinite return when you don't have any equity left in That's right?   Thach Nguyen  31:03   And the thing is, people can do that across America now, but most city right now on stage two, they don't have the APN. But right now, a lot of city right now are on the verge of going from two to three. Right now, I've been going out there buying home that you could actually Burr, make the house in the front. Work make a cash flow. Have the backyard sitting there, and then you can build it anytime. You can build it now, just for the cash flow. Or you can build it when you get the separate APN. So you can get two separate parso You can sell one, keep one. But bottom line is, if I was anybody out there, I'll be buying property. Now, make it work like you would already be buying, but just make sure you get a backyard so you have access to the back.   Keith Weinhold  31:46   Okay? So in some situations, using the burr strategy on the primary residence with an adu, burrs, buy, renovate, rent, refinance and repeat, beautiful.   Thach Nguyen  31:55   That's what I call the atomic bomb, the burr. Add the adu to the back. Boom. But I'm gonna give your audience something that they can even look forward to. Seattle in November of 2025 this went into stage four. Now in stage four, single family in the front, if the lot's big enough, you can put instead of one, you can put 234, or five property in the back, if the lot's big enough.   Keith Weinhold  32:23   Yeah, this is great. I mean, it solves the problem of affordable housing, and it increases the density in a lot of these metro areas. Yes, right, Thatch, it sounds like Seattle's having a good deal of success with the ADUs. How is that when you extrapolate it out nationally, and are there regulatory bottlenecks out there.   Thach Nguyen  32:40   The only bottleneck right now is most people right now are in state two, where they can't separate it. So if they buy a burr, they can add the house in the back. They just have to be able to comp it where there's a house and another house in the back. So what they do is they look at two different type of comp. They look at, what does it duplex sell for in the area? They could use that as a comp. Or if this is a 2000 square foot home, and you got another 800 square foot, what's a 2800 square foot home is going for? Because they can be added this to the main house, so they can create the ARV. Does that make sense? Yeah. And the only challenge, challenging is that a city that's new, they have to use comp like duplexes and square foot. It to come up with the ARV.   Keith Weinhold  33:23   That's really good. Okay, so Seattle's had these four phases of ADUs, if you will. And then what's next for ADUs?   Thach Nguyen  33:30   I think what's gonna happen after phase four is that all these single family one day will all go to multifamily. It's already in multifamily. You got a single family in the front. You can build three in a back. They're all three single family. But technically it's multi unit, right? It's called multi unit, but it's still on single family zoning, because, you know, the bulk of the real estate where I still have land, or the residential, because most commercial, you and I know, they built out on all the land on the lot, so the biggest portion left is the single family. So this is why I've been doing the adu. And I think in the future, Phase Five could be those single family that whole area might get up zoned to multifamily, more density.   Keith Weinhold  34:11   Yeah, upzoning, that term for allowing more dense housing term really originated because you're building up vertically, although that doesn't have to be the case every time. And yes, I mean, this is really a great way to solve the affordable housing crunch in the United States. I've seen other cities where single family zoning only was allowed now allows for duplexes. That's a common way to upzone as well and fetch you really often talk about creating affordable housing, like we're discussing here, while you're building wealth. Can you speak to us more about that? You kind of get a give back that way?   Thach Nguyen  34:46   Yeah. This is a mindset thing. There's a mindset that says, right? And some people believe it. Some people don't. I love what Zig Ziglar said, Right? Zig. Zig says, If you help enough people get what they want, you eventually get what you want. Yeah. And so. If you go out, then you make enough difference to the world. Take a look at Bill Gates. One day, he probably saying, You know what, I'm going to figure out how to make a computer to actually help your life better, faster, more efficient. And his goal was to do it worldwide. So he solved that problem, and in return, he has massive financial freedom. So for me, real estate isn't just real estate. Real estate what it would do for me as an outcome, real estate also give me an emotional contribution, which is, if I make a difference out there, creating more housing right, to make it more affordable, to make it most of people gonna buy it. What does it do? For me? It will actually fulfill the hierarchy of life, which is contribution. Because once you have money, the only thing that fulfill human being beyond money is life fulfillment.   Keith Weinhold  35:48   That's right. I mean, hey, it's a little brash, but in the business world, really no one cares about you until they know how much you can help them.   Thach Nguyen  35:56   You got it, brother, you got it right. That's why do you think so many wealthy people do thing in nonprofit world, because at some point it was all about them at the beginning. Now it's about basically giving back. So imagine, on your way going to success, you do both, you make a difference and you benefit also. And it's a more fulfilling journey than a journey just push, push, push and grinding and not taking care of you in the process.   Keith Weinhold  36:23   Well, if that's your events, they give you this mentorship platform. And I think you've actually pointed to how mentorship accelerates your own real estate success, even though you're trying to help others first.    Thach Nguyen  36:34   Yeah, you know for me, I always knew that the more you learn, the more you earn. And so what? 1995 I met my first mentor, Saul and then I met my other mentor, Mike ferry. And if I'm there, I met Wayne Dyer, who became one of my great mentor, Tony Robbins, Deepak, Chopra, Abraham Hicks, I mean, all these great people, right, that I got exposed to. And today I still have multiple different mentor from fitness mentor, spiritual mentor, business mentor, you know, financial mentor, and they I have regular meeting with these folks, because I want to constantly, always feel I'm growing mentally, emotionally and financially, physically, and I know that the more I learn, the more I can actually make a difference to other people coming behind me   Keith Weinhold  37:21    even Michael Jordan had his own team of coaches. Yeah, you see, that's why, that's how we all get better with that, you've really helped so many people with your mentorship, your contribution to the industry. Let our audience know how they can learn more about you.   Thach Nguyen  37:36   Yeah, if you gotta go to my Instagram, it's Thatch Nguyen this my name, and you go to YouTube, I drop YouTube every single week. It's my name. Also that's when. And you can find me there. You can find me on Instagram, tik, Tok, Facebook, everywhere. That's where I inspire and empower people all over the world about real estate and mindset.   Keith Weinhold  37:54   If that's before, I ask you if you have any last thoughts as you look him up, it's spelled T, H, A, C, H N, G, u, y, e n, fetch. Let us know if you have any closing thoughts.   Thach Nguyen  38:04   Yeah, this has been on my mind lately a lot. If you want to be successful at anything, you got to get single minded focus. And I remember when I was in Tony Robbins training, we used to do fire walk a lot. And when you are doing fire walk, you have to get single minded focus. And the only thing that you will focus on is perfect health, perfect health, perfect health. As you walk in across five feet, six feet, seven feet, and you have to really stay focused on perfect health, perfect health, perfect health, perfect health. And if you don't, and I've seen what, people lost their concentration and they burn their feet halfway through. But I also see people so powerful where they can walk halfway stop, bend down, pick up a coal and keep walking. Don't burn because they really focus on single minded focus. So I want to say to everybody, make sure you clear on where you want to buy, what you want to buy, and then once you know where you want to buy, what you want to buy, get focused on your main job is to figure out how to find deals every day, because that's your main job. If you can find deal, you solve all of your personal problem.    Keith Weinhold  39:15   I am so with you on the focus of concentration, because diversification is a word that we're fed, and there's something to be said for that. But if you want greatness in anything, you really need to double down and focus. It's sort of like Andrew Carnegie said, put all your eggs in one basket and then watch that basket. Yeah. Well, that's when this has been great. It's been good to have you here on the show.   Thach Nguyen  39:35   I appreciate everybody we talk to y'all soon. Peace out.    Keith Weinhold  39:44   Yeah, good energy from Thatch Nguyen. He's based in Seattle. When you don't live in an investor advantage area, you have to get creative or scrappy, and he's doing it well, using ADUs and a lot of value add if you're merely investing. Investing on the side, well, then you're probably better off with a turnkey type investment, something that's not quite so hands on, but if you're devoted full time to real estate, then you really have some ideas there that you might want to pick up on. He wore a sweatshirt that says mindset on it during our chat. I like that. I mean, real estate investing isn't all about mindset, but that's surely where it begins for the production team here at GRE that's our sound engineer, bedroom Jampa, who has edited every single episode since 2014 QC and show notes, Brenda Almedares, video lead, brendawali strategy, talimagal, video editor, seroza, KC, and producer me, we'll run it back next week for you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  40:50   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  41:18   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get richeducation.com  

Keith explores how long-running social and economic shifts are redefining the American Dream—especially for younger adults who are putting off milestones like moving out, starting families, and buying homes.  He connects these trends to today's housing scarcity, elongated renter stage, and what that means for long-term rental demand and real estate investors. Keith also zooms out to place the current moment in the sweep of American history, then welcomes Redfin Chief Economist Dr. Daryl Fairweather for a data-driven conversation on affordability, supply constraints, renting versus owning, and how demographic changes could shape the next wave of opportunities in both ownership and rental markets. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/601 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, learn just how far behind today's 30 year olds are then American history by decade as the nation approaches its 250th birthday. Finally, a conversation about what's next for the housing market with Redfin's chief economist Darrell fairweather today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android. Listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:10   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 1  1:44   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:54   Welcome to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 almost nobody talks about a really important story going on in America today. And I find this really astonishing. I mean, you could almost never think of America the same way again, as you'll hear while you've got these other headlines out there, constantly sucking oxygen out of the room, like decisions from the White House and inflation and wars. One big story. It moves so slowly that it kind of creeps up on you. It is the jaw dropping change in American society over the last 40 years. And then we'll discuss its seismic changes for real estate. And this is sourced from a Census Bureau supplement. It's about how fewer us adults reach typical life milestones by age 30, and this is partly because more adults opt for college than in previous generations. Oh, well, college doesn't sound like such a bad thing. I'll get to that. And by the way, 30 is an age that has come and gone for me, so I've lived through it. We're looking at a period from 1985 to 2025 so 40 years first, it's those that live on their own. In 1985 it was 83% today it's just 67% so then the percentage that don't live on their own and probably live with their parents or roommates, that has doubled. You see even more drastic declines for other milestones since 1985 those that have ever married from 77% down to 45% those that live with a child and the responsibility that this entails that's fallen from 59% down to 36% and those that own a home 48 down to 29% and again, this is for all 30 year olds since 1985 this steady, sliding, relentless decline of those who live on their own, are married, have a child, or own a home, is pretty stunning, and this is inside the most powerful nation on Earth. And here's the thing, this pattern from about 40 years ago, it unabatedly crosses through booms and busts and bubbles and bailouts, sort of like it didn't even notice those things. Somewhat ironically, what's grown during this time is the percentage that have a bachelor's degree. It's gone from 25 up to 43% so therefore, here we. Are. We've got this generation that's better educated than ever, and yet more of them are stuck down on the launch pad. It's like we built better rockets yet we can't light the fuse. And before I help you make sense of this and tell you what I believe the main force behind it to be, you just got to consider what an unfathomable aberration this has all become. At age 25 James Madison was the key architect of the US Constitution. A lot of constitution signers were in their 20s and 30s. At age 21 Steve Jobs started Apple in a garage at 20 Bill Gates co founded Microsoft at 19 Mark Zuckerberg built Facebook in a dorm room. And sure, some of these are exceptional examples, but these people committed early, and then they figured it out on the fly.   Keith Weinhold  5:59   Well, what about women? The US birth rate has hit an all time record low, because today, nearly half of 30 year old women are still child free. Okay, so some of this is logical. You can connect a few dots here more time in school, yeah, all right, that means later marriages and later kids. Sure, student debt that equals financial Gravity Boots that keep you in place. Urban living means smaller spaces. But when you stack all this together, like I just laid out later, it's not just later anymore. It is really later. That is the huge change that really startles you when you put all of this together and again, remember, over this same time span, 1985 to today, I've mentioned before how the average age of the first time homebuyer has ballooned from 29 up to 40. I mean 40 that can really take some time to sink in. And again, that's just the average in high cost housing areas. This number could be 45 or higher. I mean, sheesh, the starter home is now like a midlife purchase, and it's made right around the time that your back starts to make decisions for you, consider where we are here now, the term home ownership that is increasingly linked to older people. Those things home ownership and older people are increasingly synonymous terms. Now, owning a home, it's like a luxury good for the already established. I mean, it is pretty jaw dropping. And one contributor to these friends is the lack of available housing supply, still a 60 to 70% collapse in some populous northeast states, but really something like that. That's just a small thing. When you amalgamate it all together, it's become cultural really. The bigger trend that underlies this decline in meeting life milestones at age 30 is that long term true inflation exceeds wage increases over the decades, but there are big social shifts too. And by the way, I left my parents home for good at age 23 and some surely do so younger than I did marriage and children, they are the classic triggers to buy a house, and the longer that these type of milestones get postponed, the more likely people are to favor then flexibility over committing to a mortgage, and this then means that there is an elongated renter stage of life. Renters are no longer just passing through they're no longer just graduated from college, renting a year or two and then buying a home. Instead, they are planting flags and really pounding in stakes. And there are countless surveys that show that renters value the ability of being able to relocate without the hassle of having to sell a house. And on top of all of these trends as America ages overall, something really interesting starts to happen. This is why single family rentals have really begun to shine over the past few years, and why you had this Advent and popularity of new build and build to rent rental properties coming onto the market because single families give people the feeling of home and space and privacy and a backyard for the dog, but yet at the same time, it's commitment light, a lighter version. Now apartments benefit too, of course, and for investors, this isn't just. The trend, this is a long term tailwind, fewer life transitions. It means more stable occupancy and longer renter life cycles that lead to fewer turnovers and vacancies and repairs, so less churn, more consistency and better predictability. So the bottom line here is that this delay of life milestones, it's not subtle. It is pretty seismic, and increasingly people say that the American dream no longer even includes home ownership. Demography is destiny, and they must rent from you. And here at GRE we invest like these trends are real, but I really want to emphasize that this elongated renter stage of life really is a long term, long tail phenomenon. And I want to emphasize that because, like I said last week, in the short term, we really aren't seeing any significant rent increases due to that affordability constraint. Now we're nearly five years after America had a big wave of consumer inflation, and that really hurt kind of people this age that I'm talking about, people in their 20s and 30s, that really hurt them the most because they don't own assets that compound with the concurrent asset price inflation, they only had to deal with the bad stuff, the consumer price inflation.    Keith Weinhold  11:30   And as America approaches its 250th birthday, let's think about how this era compares to other decades. And by the way, do you know what a 250th anniversary is called? I put a line about this in my newsletter that I sent you the other day. It is called a semiquincentennial, or, I guess, semi quincentennial. I don't think that anyone's going to be using that word after the fireworks. Semiquincentennial. That sounds like a word that an Economic Committee came up with during a recession to kind of mask a worse problem or something. I suppose that the etymology makes sense. If you break it down, quincentennial would be 500 and semi would be half of 500 in any case, as you try to compare this American era to others, listen to this from the parallel truth. This is about three minutes long, and then I'll come back to comment. It's America by decade, starting all the way back in the 1770s This is a decent summary here, although it can get unnecessarily gloomy at times.   Speaker 2  12:41   Imagine you could live in the United States one decade at a time, not the America you see in movies, not the America in textbooks, but the real America. Let's start with the 1770s the decade of independence. This is not a freedom story, yet. It's a war story. Most people are farmers, roads are mud, medicine is almost nothing. And if you're a young man, your future is simple, fight or starve. Then came the 1800s The decade of expansion. America is still small, but it's hungry, new land, new states, New promises, but there is also growing slavery. Native tribes are being pushed out, and the country is quietly building a conflict it can't avoid. Now it's the 1860s the decade America almost died. There is civil war, Brother versus brother. Cities are burning. If you lived here, you didn't watch history, you survived it. Next is the 1900s The decade of industrial America, factories, railroads, steel, oil. The country becomes a machine. Cities explode with workers, but life is brutal, long hours, dirty air, child labor, you might earn money, but you will pay with your health. It's the 1920s now, the decade of jazz and madness. This is America's first big party decade, cars, radio, Hollywood. Everyone thinks the future is unstoppable. Then came the 1930s the decade the party ended. The Great Depression happens, banks collapse and jobs disappear. People line up for bread. A man with a suit could be broke in one week. This decade teaches America one lesson, that money is not real until it's in your hand. It's the 1940s now the decade America became the world's boss. World War Two turns the US into the world's factory. While Europe is burning, America is building. And when the war ends, America comes out richer than anyone in history. It's the 1950s the decade of the American dream, suburbs, big houses, one salary supports a whole family, TV dinners, new cars, new highways. This is the decade America sells the world the idea of perfect life. Next came 1960s the decade of rebellion, civil rights, Vietnam assassinations, the country feels like it's splitting. You could be hopeful or terrified, sometimes both in the same week, 1970s was the decade the system started breaking, oil crisis, inflation, crime rate, and in 1971 America quietly changes money forever. The dollar stops being backed by gold. From this point onward, America runs on trust. It. The 1980s the decade of Wall Street, America, big business, big spending. The stock market becomes religion. America looks confident again, but the middle class starts weakening slowly. Then came the 1990s the decade America felt unstoppable. The Soviet Union has collapsed and the US feels untouchable. The internet is born. This is the decade where Americans truly believe that they have won. It's the 2000s now the decade of shock, 911, wars, fear, surveillance, then 2008 hits, banks crash, housing collapses, and America learns something painful. The people who caused the crisis don't pay for it. It's the 2000s and 10s, the decade of the digital trap. Social media becomes reality, politics becomes war. Everyone is online, but nobody feels connected. The economy recovers, but normal people don't. And finally, it's the 2020s. The decade, chaos became normal. Pandemic changes everything. Supply chains are collapsing, inflation returns, AI arrives and trust collapses. And by 2026 America is still rich, but it feels exhausted. People are working harder, owning less, and trusting nobody. And the strangest part is that America didn't collapse. It just slowly became a different country, not through invasion, not through revolution, but through decades of small changes that added up to a completely new reality. So the real question is, if you could choose one decade to live in? Which one would you pick?   Keith Weinhold  16:22    Yeah, which decade would you pick to live in? A lot of people say the 1950s where we had, like they touched on there the post war boom and how one salary could support an entire household. Some people say the 1990s because the Cold War ended, we had the start of Wide Internet use, and it's before you had these stark political divisions where people started to put party ahead of country. Now some people would probably say, Are you kidding me? I'd rather live in this decade right here. I can work from home more easily than I ever could have before. And I think you can make valid cases for all of those things. And speaking of this era, a quarter just ended, and we do this quarterly at most. It's our asset class rundown. Year over year, national home prices are only up about half of 1% per the nar 1% Case Shiller and totality, single family rent index shows just 1.3% rent growth. That's year over year. This quarter, the s, p5 100 was down 5% stocks of all types are down largely to the Iran war. The yield on the 10 year treasury note rose from 4.1 up to 4.3% due to higher inflation expectations. Why does that matter so much? That's what influences 30 year mortgage rates, which also rose from 6.2 up to 6.5% West Texas Intermediate oil prices soared from 59 bucks to over 100 last quarter. Gold hit an all time high of 5400 bucks in the quarter, and then fell to about 4600 by the end of the quarter. Other precious metals hit their all time peak. Bitcoin fell from 88k down to 68k That's the asset class rundown. I'll return with Redfin's chief economist, Dr Darrell fairweather and more. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  18:18   Let me throw out a simple idea. Sometimes doing nothing with your money is actually a decision. Leaving it parked might feel safe, but over time, purchasing power changes. So the conversation isn't about chasing returns, it's about intentionally placing money somewhere. Freedom, family investments works in real estate people use every day. Housing, senior communities, essential properties, things tied to living and not trends. Their freedom notes offering is built for accredited investors looking for structured income backed by real assets, not speculation. I am an investor with them myself. The Freedom team makes themselves available to walk through their approach, structure and operating philosophy so you can ask questions and determine alignment before moving forward. While past performance doesn't guarantee future results, their historical operating philosophy has yielded 100% investor payouts backed by over 20 years of experience. If you want clarity before making any moves, book a clarity call@freedomfamilyinvestments.com or text family to 66 866, text the word family to 66 866,    Keith Weinhold  19:41   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem, property or your whole portfolio through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now. Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre.   Robert Helms  20:16   Everybody. It's Robert Helms of the real estate guys radio program, so glad you found Keith Weinhold and get rich education, don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  20:35   This week's guest is the chief economist of Redfin during the housing crisis. She worked at the Boston Fed, studying why homeowners enter foreclosure. Since 2023 she served at the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. She holds her BS from MIT, and she really knows her way around campuses, because she received her Master's and PhD in Economics at the University of Chicago, where she specialized in behavioral economics, that's interesting. Welcome to GRE. Darrell fairweather,   Daryl Fairweather  21:06   thank you for having me.    Keith Weinhold  21:08   Hey, Daryl. I'd like to get to some of the statistics later in the things that Redfin does and compiles, but tell us about the behavioral side of the housing market that's often so interesting and evencounterintuitive   Daryl Fairweather  21:22   yeah, one of the most interesting things about the housing market is that people get really emotional when making this huge financial decision. It's something that people don't have a lot of practice with. Most people maybe buy a home once or twice in their whole life. There's so much social weight that's put on it. It's the American dream. There's a lot of family pressure, and there's a lot of hurting behavior that can happen. People get swept up in the moment. Maybe they overbid on a home, or maybe they miss out because other people are avoiding the housing market. So it's a really interesting place to both study psychology and economics.   Keith Weinhold  21:56   Sure, most homeowners are just inexperienced at this whole thing. Yeah, behavioral economics, it really has this strong gravity in real estate. Maybe something that you've said touches on what I call the Zestimate illusion. A lot of times, sellers anchor their price to not just the Zillow estimate, but sometimes even the peak sale price in the whole neighborhood, and that's what they think that they should get for their home?   Daryl Fairweather  22:21   Yeah, that does happen quite a bit. And I don't think a lot of people realize how much those estimates can move once a home is listed. The list price tends to move that estimate quite a lot. So it's not a fact. And those estimates don't really know many details about the home, like what upgrades might have happened, or what internally is happening within the home, like if people have gotten new appliances or gotten a new air conditioning system, it doesn't really take those things into account. So you shouldn't just anchor off of the Redfin estimate. You should definitely talk to an agent. Look at the comps. The comps can tell you a lot in terms of what homes have sold for recently, and then track your local market in terms of whether it is going up in value or down in value, because those comps might be a little bit stale, and you have to adjust for where the market is right now.   Keith Weinhold  23:06   There's some really good points there. And when I think of the behavioral side of economics in the real estate market, another nascent thing that comes to mind Darrell, is the rate shock paralysis that really set in in America in 2022 mortgage rates are still historically on the low side. But few people think about it that way. They're really swayed by the recency bias   Daryl Fairweather  23:31   yes. And one thing to take into account, though, is how much home prices have gone up since the last time rates were this high. So if you're looking at the monthly mortgage payment and how much that is compared to people's monthly incomes, it is quite expensive to buy a home. In most metros, you cannot afford to buy a home on the local median income. There's only maybe four metros that are in the middle of the country where it's still affordable to buy a home on a middle class salary. So combined the rate and the price those mortgage payments are still quite expensive, although they have gotten slightly more affordable since last year because rates are slightly lower than last year, they did come up a bit with, you know, oil prices coming up, but still, compared to last year, rates are a bit lower and a bit more affordable to get a home.   Keith Weinhold  24:13   And of course, all this is besides the point that those 2021, mortgage rates, they were born out of a collapsing economy, and I don't think that we really want that either. But yes, to your point about affordability, that's been such a buzzword in the housing market for quite a while, and for good reason. It wasn't very long ago that we reached a 40 year low in affordability. Can you tell us about what can improve affordability next? Darrell or what's most likely to happen? For example, it seems like insurance rate increases have really leveled off.   Daryl Fairweather  24:50   Yes, the reason why affordability is so bad, especially in coastal cities, the places that have the most opportunities, is because of a lack of supply. Existing homeowners, they are fine. They like when their home goes up in value, but it really is a problem for first time homebuyers, when prices just keep climbing and when new housing gets proposed, it's often the existing homeowners who are blocking that housing from getting built, and so supply is constrained. You can see this very clearly in a place like San Francisco, which had a huge economic boom in the 2010s yet housing did not keep up with all of the job opportunities that were coming to the area, and when you have all these people moving in with higher incomes, it drives up prices when there isn't adequate supply. You take Austin as another example. Austin had a huge boom during the pandemic, but supply responded. Builders built, there was a lot of development that happened, and as a result, prices came right back down. They're still above where they were pre pandemic, but nowhere near the heights that we saw back in 2021 so it just goes to show that when you allow supply to get built, it does help keep prices more moderate and keep things more affordable.   Keith Weinhold  25:59   Yes, and nimbyism is rampant, is consumer inflation or some of the other big forces out there, for sure, but yes, this national dearth of supply something that's existed even well before the pandemic, for example, it's bounced back somewhat, but still not quite enough, and it's really part of what, in my opinion, has helped support housing prices, even when mortgage rates tripled back in 2022 Can you tell us more what you believe about the future of housing supply with all the data that you do with there at Redfin Daryl,   Daryl Fairweather  26:37   housing supply improved a bit during the pandemic, but we're still far below What we need in order to make housing more accessible to middle class people. But there are new challenges that are coming. One that you mentioned is insurance. Insurance costs are going up. So even if you have a fixed rate mortgage and you've locked that in, you still have to worry about the rising cost of ownership because of insurance costs are going up. Property taxes are going up in many places, and maintenance costs are increasing. So that is going to make home ownership, and just the cost of ownership in general, whether you're an investor or an owner occupant, more expensive moving forward. And that's going to vary depending on where you are. There going to be some parts of the country where insurance goes up much faster, like in Florida, and other parts where insurance will probably be more stable like in the Midwest and Great Lakes region. So it's important now even more so to really research the neighborhood, research the home, and figure out how those expenses could increase in the future.   Keith Weinhold  27:32   Yeah, here we are in this housing market where, you know, Darrell, I think of it in a lot of ways, is, you know, maybe for three years now, we've largely been stuck in the mud, much of it due to lower supply, where we have a lower overall proportion of both buyers and sellers.   Daryl Fairweather  27:48   Yeah, what's happening right now is really an hangover from the pandemic, because so many people locked in 3% mortgage rates during the pandemic, and if those homeowners were to sell and buy again. Even if they bought the same priced home, they would end up paying more in their monthly mortgage payment because of how much higher mortgage rates are, and that's holding back supply quite significantly. It's the reason why prices have not come down despite rates going up, is because the higher rates are holding back both demand and supply at the same time, and contributing to the overall lack of inventory that's out there,   Keith Weinhold  28:24   this aberration where we have a big proportion of American homeowners living in homes where if they tried to repurchase that home at today's terms, they couldn't even do it. To your point about people not wanting to move, and that's a big reason why they almost can't. They might pay more in rent elsewhere for a like property if they were to sell what they own, if those still locked in terms and Darrell here, I think, you know, our audience is largely real estate investors, a lot of them investing in one to four unit properties. So with what you're seeing there at Redfin. And I think a lot of us know that, yeah, rent growth has been pretty slow as well. What do you see for rents in 2026 and perhaps 2027   Daryl Fairweather  29:08   originally, when we went to go do our predictions for 2026 we said that rents were going to increase this year. Now, I think that rents will continue to stay flat, and that's because there's still a lack of demand for for sale housing. People are staying in the rental market, but people are overall tightening their budgets because they're worried about the economy. They're worried about inflation. So if they can, you know, get roommates or live with family, they're going to choose to do that to keep their overall expenses lower, which will reduce demand for both for sale housing and for rental housing. And I think a lot of home sellers, they've tried to sell their homes. We saw many people try to sell their homes last year and then end up delisting their homes, and they're trying again. We saw more of those people come back in January, but I think those people are going to continue to kind of try to test the market, be a bit disappointed that there isn't enough demand, and then some of. Up for sale housing will end up as rental housing. Just driving around my neighborhood, I see so many rental signs on single family homes that I never saw before, almost more for rent signs, and I'm seeing for sale signs, so that added inventory from these accidental landlords who would like to move but don't want to give up their mortgage rate is going to increase the supply of single family rentals, and that will mean more competition for those investors that are trying to rent out the homes.   Keith Weinhold  30:27   Talk to us about rental occupancy. That's something that we're seeing at a historic low in apartment buildings, for one thing. But can you talk to us about what you see for future occupancy levels of both residential one to fours and apartments. Going forward,   Daryl Fairweather  30:43   a lot of new supply came online during the pandemic, especially in places that build a lot of condos. Many one bedroom or zero bedroom condos got built, and then those are really difficult to rent out, because, you know, they're just not that attractive. We really have more of a shortage of types of housing that's appropriate for families and those one bedroom units that are really targeted at like affluent young people. There aren't that many affluent people right now, so they're they're difficult to rent out. I think that trend is pretty much over. We're not seeing too many more condos being developed because the condos that were developed during the pandemic are still having trouble finding owners or finding renters in those apartment buildings. Now, I think we're going to start to see an uptick in single family rental vacancy, because I think a lot of those people who would like to sell their homes are having trouble selling their homes because of how mortgage rates are and how skittish people are about making a commitment to ownership right now, and they're going to alternatively try to rent out those and that will mean more availability of those rentals and not as much pressure on rents to go up in that segment of the market.   Keith Weinhold  31:51   Woe for the builder that targeted young, affluent types, they don't really exist so much anymore. That's really pretty interesting. Well, Darrell, do you have any last thoughts overall about the housing market? Maybe something I didn't think about asking you that's really important, whether that's for an investor or a prospective homeowner.    Daryl Fairweather  32:12   Yeah, I think if I was an investor right now, I would be paying attention to what economists and housing people call the silver tsunami that's older generations starting to sell their homes. We did a study recently that showed that people who are 70 years and above have as much wealth and housing as middle aged people, which is the first time that group has exceeded in terms of the wealth that they hold. And if you're 70 plus, there's definitely a clock ticking on how long you're going to stay in that home, which means that a lot of new inventory will become available in those homes. They probably need work. They probably need some renovations, and that could be a really great opportunity for an investor to buy a home that maybe has been neglected for a while because it's been a senior living in there who hasn't been really keeping it up to date. You can renovate it and perhaps sell it again to a younger buyer by doing some updates and make a nice profit there.    Speaker 3  33:03   Oh, well, Daryl, this has been a great update laced with plenty of practical things that someone can actually do. Do you have a resource you'd like to share in case our audience would like to connect?   Daryl Fairweather  33:16   Yes, you can find me basically on any social media channel. I'd recommend checking you out on YouTube to start. And then if you would like data on what's happening in your local housing market, you can check out the Redfin data center. Just Google Redfin data center, it'll bring you right there. And you can find lots of local data on your market,   Keith Weinhold  33:34   Daryl Fairweather. It's been great having you here on the show.   Daryl Fairweather  33:37    Thank you.   Keith Weinhold  33:44   Yeah, insightful material from Dr Darrell fairweather today, no end to the housing scarcity in sight. She says, rents continue to stay flat, partly due to this accidental landlord. They didn't plan to be a landlord, but they need to move and yet they don't want to sell the single family home that they got with a good owner occupied financing a few years ago. And the reason that's a headwind for single family investors, because it keeps more rental supply on the market. Last week, I touched on how you should not expect rent increases in the near term, I own a lot of single family rentals myself, and I am not getting rent increases. It's not so much that single family vacancies are high now, but apartment building vacancies are high. That fact alone that actually does hurt the single family rental market a little, because even though a renter might desire a single family, and maybe you think, Well, an apartment couldn't compete with that feeling. But yet, if an apartment is so much cheaper than the single family, and they often are now, well then that renter will go for the cheap apartment instead the one. You can think of Redfin is that they're part Zillow, part real estate agent, and part data company, and they can give you early signals on things like buyer demand and price direction and days on market, those types of indicators. So for the latest housing market research and news, you can do a search for the Redfin data center, and then for Daryl, start on YouTube. You can follow her on x at fairweather PhD, thanks to Dr Darrell fairweather today, until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 5  35:36   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively to   Keith Weinhold  35:56   the preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

Episode 235 and the boys are joined by the Plastic Model Mojo crew for a daydream chat about what we would do if we won the lottery. We also have the usual mailbag and of course the exciting Patreon wheel of fortune! Don't forget to support the sponsor of our show Scott from the Scale Modellers Supply https://www.scalemodeller.com.au/ Leave us a message, comment or even ask a question, we would love to hear from you! Write to Onthebench64@gmail.com. If you would like to support our show please go to www.patreon.com/onthebench

Karl Korte & Elizabeth Mannion - "The Whistling Wind" - Computer Music From the Outside In The Exploited - "Power Struggle" - Death Before Dishonour Faust - "Jennifer (excerpt)" - IV Ângela Valle E Eustáquio Sena - "Simone" - Selva De Pedra (Trilha Sonora Original Da Novela) Jean-Pierre Decerf - "Contours" - Pulsations Pieter Verlinden - "Theme 19 (Générique et Générique Variation 1)" - The Belgian Soundtrack: A Musical Connection of Belgium with Cinema 1961-1979 Au Vol - "Seascapes (For Helen Frankenthaler)" - Anthology of Experimental Music From Canada Amon Duul II - "Rattlesnakeplumcake" - Lemmingmania The Feed-Back - "The Feed-Back (excerpt)" - The Feed-Back S.C. Sharma - "Dance Music 1" - NID Tapes: Electronic Music From India 1969 - 1972 Lingua Ignota - "DO YOU DOUBT ME TRAITOR" - Caligula Don Voegeli - "Caribbean Cruise" - Oscillations 2 Igor Wakhevitch - "Materia Prima" - Docotor Faust https://www.wfmu.org/playlists/shows/163057

Así sonaba el pop en abril de 1966. Entrega mensual de la serie dedicada a recordar singles que alcanzaron su puesto más alto en el Billboard Hot 100 hace 60 años.Playlist;(sintonía) HERB ALPERT and THE TIJUANA BRASS “Spanish flea” (top 27)THE RIGHTEOUS BROTHERS “(You’re my) Soul and inspiration” (top 1)THE YOUNG RASCALS “Good lovin’” (top 1)CHER “Bang Bang (my baby shot me down)” (top 2)THE LOVIN’ SPOONFUL “Daydream” (top 2)THE OUTSIDERS “Time won’t let me” (top 5)MITCH RYDER and THE PLAYBOYS “Little Latin Lupe Lu” (top 17)JOHNNY RIVERS “Secret agent man” (top 3)THE KNICKERBOCKERS “One track mind” (top 46)THE ANIMALS “Inside looking out” (top 34)OTIS REDDING “Satisfaction” (top 31)THE TEMPTATIONS “Get ready” (top 29)LOU CHRISTIE “Outside the gates of heaven” (top 45)THE JAZZ CRUSDADERS “Uptight (everything's alright)” (top 95)THE IMPRESSIONS “Too slow” (top 91)THE DRIFTERS “Memories are made of this” (top 48)SOLOMON BURKE “I feel a sin comin on” (top 97)BRIAN WILSON “Caroline, no” (top 32)Escuchar audio

Keith challenges the belief that all debt is bad and reframes it as a tool for building wealth when used intentionally.  He contrasts destructive consumer debt with productive investment debt, especially in real estate, and explains how inflation, long-term fixed-rate loans, and rental income can work together to grow net worth.  Keith explores the mindset shift from prioritizing safety and being debt-free to pursuing growth through leverage, highlights the opportunity cost of avoiding debt, and offers practical guidelines for using borrowing rationally rather than emotionally.  He also shows how modern economies and many wealthy individuals rely on strategic debt, positioning it as a key part of a more intentional, asset-focused version of the American Dream. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/600 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:00   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith weinholder, there's bad debt, good debt and great debt. Are you using debt wisely, and are you ensuring that you stay in debt? Because debt is the American dream today, on get rich education milestone episode 600   Corey Coates  0:23   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard in every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:06   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 1  1:40   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:56   Welcome to GRE from Kennewick, Washington at Kennebunkport, Maine and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are inside get rich education. Yes, America's favorite slack jawed mammal on a microphone has got his act back on track, for your listening pleasure, since 2014 This is our 600th wealth building week in a row, you've been misled, not maliciously, not even intentionally, but somewhere along the way, a really expensive idea got planted inside your head, and it was once planted inside my head, that debt is bad, just blanketly bad, that the goal is to be debt free, that owing money to somebody else is something to escape as fast as possible. And look, I get it, if your mindset is in the old middle class consumer credit world like mine was for much of my life, debt feels heavy, it feels like risk, it feels like obligation, but the people telling you to avoid debt, they're the same people that never built much wealth now a reliance on 22% APR, credit card debt just To pay basic living expenses, because it's the only way that you could do it, merely making the minimum monthly payment that right there is the road to ruin. Why? Well, because the interest rate is high, because you have to pay it back yourself, and because it's unsecured, meaning that there's no collateral, and at the same time, the people quietly getting rich, what are they doing? They're using debt every single day. So debt is not the enemy, it's just the tool, and like any tool, it can build a house, or it can smash your thumb if you miss the nail. Well today we're going to separate the two, because if you understand this one concept, then you stop playing defense financially and start going on offense. In fact, I'll go further. Debt isn't the opposite of the American Dream used correctly. Debt is the American dream. Now, my turning point was really fueled when I made my first ever home, that $295,000 blue four Plex Building Two decades ago, with just my three and a half percent down payment. That meant that 96 and a half percent was borrowed. That's debt, and that fueled everything for me, and got the ball rolling on using that seminal four Plex to leverage even more debt and more property with 1031 exchanges and cash out refinances debt made that American dream free. Me because I could not have afforded $295,000 all cash back then. Now, a guest that we had on the show last year and the owner of a commercial lending company, Hannah Hannan, she recently talked about the virtues of debt. I met Hannah because we were both faculty members on last year's real estate guys Investor Summit at sea cruise. Well, Hannah went on a different cruise and saw in Jamaica that there were all these vacant and uncompleted houses just sort of weirdly stuck at different stages of construction. She asked the tour guide, why are these houses all abandoned? And and the tour guide answered, we don't have loans here in Jamaica. People have to work make money and then start the build, and then the build pauses while they make more money, and then they have to construct the next phase of the build as they go and go back to making more money like that. I mean, sheesh, that's awful. Can you imagine if you had to build a home or a rental property for yourself that way? Well, back here in the US, access to debt is what allows people to build wealth faster, especially in real estate, you can use other people's money control large assets, pay less in taxes and compound off a much smaller amount of capital. That's the difference. Debt availability is really good in the US compared to other nations, and that's the emphasis on the American part of today's episode. Debt is the American dream. Now, when it comes to the big misunderstanding, most people think that debt is really just one thing. They just lump it all like it's all bad, credit cards, car loans, student loans, mortgages. A lot of people, they really do. They just still throw it all into one mental bucket that's sort of labeled da, avoid that at all costs. I'm telling you, no way you cannot do that. I mean, this is like saying food is bad because candy exists. No, there's junk food and there's fuel. It's the same with debt. Consumer debt is a wealth killer. Investment debt is a wealth creator, and if you don't know the difference well, you end up avoiding the very thing that could move your life forward. Here's another way to think about it, debt doesn't make you poor. Using debt poorly makes you poor.    Keith Weinhold  7:36   In real estate, inflation is quietly paying your mortgage, even if you never made a principal payment at all. When you really understand this, it almost sounds too good to be true. Most people think inflation is just rising prices, and it is that, but they miss the other side of the equation. Inflation also shrinks debt, something I've been talking about for more than 10 years here. If you have a 30 year fixed rate mortgage, you're paying back that loan with future dollars that are worth less, and meanwhile, rents tend to rise, wages tend to rise, and asset values tend to rise, but your mortgage, it stays fixed. Inflation can't touch it, and that means that over time, your payment gets easier and easier to make. Oh, and then if you've got a tenant in place as well, oh, they're the one sending in the check for everything. And inflation is not just happening to you. It's now working for you. If you've got, say, a $500,000 mortgage loan, and inflation is 3% well, then inflation enriched you by $15,000 every single year. That's $1,250 a month just on this 500k mortgage loan. And if you've got an investment property rented out. You've even got the tenant paying down, oh, maybe $400 in monthly principal for you on the property, plus this $1,250 in inflation profiting, plus $100 of cash flow. This is $1,750 in monthly benefit before we've even added in your tax benefits and the appreciation potential. What made this all happen debt is what made it all a reality for you. When we talk about why the middle class fears debt, yeah, there is a mindset divide here. On one side, it simply says, get out of debt, stay out of debt and avoid risk. On the other we ask, How can I use that to acquire assets? So it's really like the first group is focused on safety and the second group is focused on growth, and after a while you have to ask bigger X. Potential questions like, do you want to live a life of safety, or do you want to live a life of growth? Now, I'm not knocking discipline, but there is a hidden cost to avoiding debt entirely. It's called opportunity cost. When you pay all cash, oh, well, then you lose leverage, you lose scalability, you lose tax advantages, and you often lose time. Hey, just like I would have by postponing my first four Plex purchase for, say, five plus years until I could have saved up all that money by myself. That's why playing it safe is often the riskiest move, because while you're sitting on the sidelines, inflation and rising prices are still in the game, and you've taken yourself out of the game. When we talk about the American dream, look, America was built on debt leverage.    Keith Weinhold  11:01   Zoom out for a second. This isn't just about you and me. America itself was built on debt. Railroads were financed with borrowed money that helped Cornelius Vanderbilt build his railroad empire in the 1800s in the 1900s highways were funded through government debt. Today, our entire suburbs are built on mortgages. Leverage didn't break the system. It built the system. So it's kind of ironic that today people are told the safest move is to avoid the very mechanism that built this modern economy that you and I are living inside every day. Debt is how things get done. Now, practically, yes, debt can absolutely wreck you if it's used poorly. So we think about some simple guardrails then favor fixed rate debt over variable match long term debt with long term assets, and you want to chiefly borrow for cash flowing or appreciating assets, and also stress test your deals assume that things won't go perfectly. So this certainly is not about being reckless. It's about being intentional. Debt should serve you, not the other way around. And now notice how I said to chiefly use debt for cash flowing or appreciating assets. I didn't say solely because you'll remember how last year, I talked to you about how I bought a new car for myself and financed as much as I was allowed, almost 100% debt. I had to make, like, a two or 3k down payment on the car because it was a special order. And once they start, you know, building it and customizing it for me, well, then they're at risk if they don't have a deposit, all right? Well, I found a way to make this car debt pretty good debt. Oh, and you might be thinking, oh, yeah, of course. Well, if you use it for business, you probably get some deductions that way. Oh, no, no. Business use totally a personal car, almost leveraged to the hilt, but it's not bad debt, and I'll tell you why. By the way, this isn't some high end exotic car. It's a BMW x3 SUV. It was like 53 or 55k and now how could I possibly call this good debt? Nope, I'm not running it out to other people or anything like that, because here, unlike income property, where a tenant pays it down, I do have to make these car payments myself. Well, in a word, the reason I did it this way is for the arbitrage. I got a fixed 3.99% interest rate for five years. Call it 4% Oh, I am almost certainly going to beat that by investing those dollars in real estate. So the 55k almost that I did not have to allocate to a car. Oh, well, that amount is enough for a down payment and closing costs on a cash flowing rental. That's probably going to pay me five ways with a total ROI that I expect to be multiples above the 4% interest rate, but the car's value depreciates. What about that debt on a depreciating asset? A car depreciates at the same rate whether it's bought all cash or all debt. It doesn't matter. Here is the better question, why tie up that much in a depreciating asset? 55k if I had paid all cash which I could have, I would have foregone returns and paid opportunity cost. Now, arbitraging car debt this way. That's not great debt. I don't put it in that category like real estate that pays for itself is and that is mostly because no tenant services. My personal car debt. For me, this car debt is just good debt, not great debt. Now how about some more guardrails? How can you keep yourself from going nuts and just trying to arbitrage everything. How would you know if you've gone too far? I mean, any person that's savvy with personal finance has to ask themselves a question, and that is always, what is the risk associated with this investment, or what is the risk associated with this debt, right? Because I already talked about the upsides of car debt this way. Well, the first risk is that I don't successfully arbitrage it. Rather than having the 55k sunk into the car, I have it invested elsewhere than say, it doesn't achieve a greater than 4% return. Well, the risk of that happening is small, maybe about a 10% chance. What's another big risk of leveraging car debt this way? Well, it's if you cannot make the monthly payment, which for me is about $1,050 a month, 1050 that's a comfortable payment. For me, if you can't make the payment that's called, you got yourself into an over leveraged condition. But for me, these risks are manageable. And this is applied thinking. This is clear eyed thinking, rational decision making, a level headed approach, a long term approach. It's common sense investing. Have a strategy and then invest your plan, not your emotions. Look paying off debt. That's often an emotional response, like when the debt is at a low interest rate and yes, understanding that debt is the American dream. Okay, this is still a pretty unconventional understanding, for sure, but it is pragmatism over emotions. When emotions go up, intelligence goes down. You can see that in a lot of places in your life. I can too. I think that a lot of the emotion happened to us when we were really young, perhaps age 12. And maybe you're saying, Oh, well, grandpa, he would not have arranged his finances this way. Grandpa wouldn't have leveraged all this real estate debt, and he sure wouldn't have thought that arbitraging car debt is savvy, but your grandpa was born before 1971 back when the dollar was still gold, backed if you're older now, your grandpa might have even been affected by living through the 1930s Great Depression. Our world does not work that way. Today, the dollar is no longer tethered to gold. It's just borrowed and lent into existence, and another Great Depression that's actually really unlikely. In the 1930s President Herbert Hoover refused to provide government support to prop up the economy, and sheesh today, any crisis is like immediately propped up by us printing a ton of dollars and then giving them out, just like covid stimulus checks and mortgage loan forbearance and all of that debt, debt, debt. Now I don't think that all of that is good, but you got to acknowledge that that's the world we live in today. If you're debt averse, because grandpa always said to stay out of debt, well then you know what you can take solace. Take comfort in the fact that today, ultimately, grandpa would have understood that the world changed, and he would want what is best for you.    Keith Weinhold  19:03   I'm get rich education. Host Keith Weinhold, this week, we're talking about why debt is the American dream on episode 600 with guidance that's practical, contrarian investor first and non emotional. Contrarian does not mean reckless. And by the way, just because something is mainstream, well, that doesn't necessarily make it bad, but in this case with debt, it often does. Here we're kind of back onto the old Mark Twain quote. Go out on a limb, that's where the fruit is. This is independent thinking for real world investors. It's where theory meets what actually works, and I'll discuss some specific actionable guidance for you before we're done today. But this is largely about ignoring the masses and following a clear incentive path. And what do the masses do? Now they kind of all gel together and get pumped up when they follow these debt free call in radio shows where the host advises the caller to always desperately retire debt at all costs. They'll even tell you work a second and a third job. You got to postpone vacations. They'll tell you to defer your life and go into lifestyle debt. Then in order to desperately stay out of financial debt, we're never going to get that time back. So just chill, take it easy with a lot of debt types inflation and sometimes tenants both passively pay it back for you. I mean, on these debt free call in radio shows, almost every time they give guidance, I kind of chuckle when I listen to this stuff. I sort of quietly ask myself, how would that path ever build wealth like when people are advised to retire 3% mortgage debt? Why dreadful sounding guidance like this happens is because it keeps irresponsible people from going over a cliff. That's all it serves to do. I mean, you're here listening to me because you're good with money, or you desire to be good with money and not give all your money away to creditors used intelligently. Debt isn't reckless. It's a tool, and it's one that lets you scale without trading every hour of your life for dollars. It seems to me that some of the groups of people that need to hear the debt is the American Dream message. They tend to be in a few groups. I need to be careful here, but I'm talking about groups like people with less financial education, engineers and women. It doesn't mean that people with less financial education are any less intelligent. And then when it comes to the engineering profession, you know that type of person tends to be unusually conservative, and I've worked for engineering firms in the past, so I wouldn't know this is somewhat of a paradox. Since engineers are the calculating types, you would think that they would have leverage and arbitrage figured out, and then women are a group that they tend to be more debt averse than most, and this is not a knock on women at all. In fact, women generally do a lot of things better than men do. I mean, I could go on and on there, like emotional intelligence and social awareness and relationship building and even multitasking and sticking to a plan, but I know couples where the husband does understand that it does not make a lick of financial sense to pay off the home, but he did it because the wife wants it so badly she deems that as security. But yeah, there was a time in my life where I thought that being millions of dollars in debt. Oh, that just sounded awful, like I thought that after graduating from college, but Oh, position well, with leverage in real estate, after a long time, you might get yourself where you're increasing your debt half a million bucks every year, but right alongside it, you're increasing your asset value 1 million bucks every year. Well, right there, since net worth is assets minus debt, you're increasing your net worth by a half million bucks a year because you have a big amount to leverage, because you've been a real estate investor for a long time. For example, debt made that American dream possible. But, yeah, the needling engineer type that's conventional and is like still the guy faithfully contributing to their 401 k which is locked up until their age, 59 and a half and keeps paying down debt. You know, they're the ones showing up to their engineering job in a pair of Dockers pants. I'm telling you, people that wear Dockers are not good debtors. I mean, do they still make stupid Dockers? I've got to look that up. Do those pants have pleats at the front or not? I don't even know.    Speaker 2  24:16   Levi's 100% cotton Dockers. If you're not wearing Dockers, you're just wearing pants.   Keith Weinhold  24:21   Oh jeez. And yeah, they still do make Dockers. I mean, the stereotypical needling engineer that dutifully contributes to a 401, K, he's got to have a complete dresser drawer full of stupid Dockers, no doubt.   Keith Weinhold  24:37   Hey, I can make a little fun of them, because I spent a lot of time in that world. I think it makes sense to contribute to a 401 K, by the way, but only up to the employer match amount. That way it's tax advantaged, and you're using other people's money one to one, but above that, oh, every dollar you lock inside a 401 k is $1 that can No. Longer leverage other people's money. That means no debt, no leverage, and a steep opportunity cost. Now to get a holistic picture here, we need to think through what are some reasons to pay down debt, or to pay off debt and completely retire it? Because there are some good reasons for doing that. I talked about credit cards earlier, student loan debt is also not good debt, because you must pay that debt, not somebody else, like a tenant, and now their interest rates are not as high as credit cards, but there's also no collateral with student loans. Maybe you could arbitrage it, like I did with my car, but student loan debt can't be discharged in bankruptcy. Like most other debt types, can you also want to pay off debt when an interest rate is working against you and not for you. Also, if you want to buy more property, but you need to lower your DTI in order to qualify with your mortgage loan underwriter that is lower your debt to income ratio before you take out another mortgage. Oh, well, that would be a reason, for example, to pay off a car loan. Another reason to pay off debt is if you're approaching retirement and you expect a decrease in your income, then you would want to revisit that here at GRE you might be structuring things to increase your income once you retire. That's its own discussion. They are some of the reasons to pay off debt. It makes sense sometimes, and with all those reasons, we've kept emotions out of it. But otherwise, yeah, bring on the good debt. Debt and loan are my two favorite four letter words the wealthiest people have the most debt. I've discussed that reality before on previous episodes, and I gave a lot of examples, like with Mark Zuckerberg and also with Jay Z and Beyonce, so I won't go into all that again. So therefore, let me discuss how, not only do the wealthiest people have the most debt, I mean, for example, I'm wealthier than I've ever been, and I simultaneously have the most debt that I've ever had. Not surprisingly, the wealthiest world nations have the most debt too. Let's look at it from the perspective of household debt as a percent of GDP. There are about 200 world nations, and sure enough, the US ranks pretty high 13th in this measure of household debt, the top 10 nations, counting them down from 10 to one is and look, they're all wealthy nations that have the most debt, Sweden, Denmark, Hong Kong, Norway, South Korea. Up to fifth is New Zealand. And then you've got the Netherlands at fourth, and then Canada, Australia, and number one is the nation that you probably think of as the most wealthy and stable in the entire world. It is Switzerland. They are number one in household debt per GDP, and then the poorest of the 200 world nations have the least debt and the highest interest rates and the least stable currencies. But see, the wealthy nations can borrow the most. These countries can borrow trillions because investors trust them. Their economies are productive and they can service the payments just like you see, say that I know you've got $5 million in debt. Just say that's true. All right. Well, now that's an interesting thing that I know about you, and now I can automatically deduce something else about you. I know that you must be pretty credit worthy for anyone to have even extended you that much credit. So a high debt level is a mark of creditworthiness. The richest people have the most debt and the richest nations have the most debt too. Debt is a contract with time. Here's the deeper idea, debt lets you pull future resources into today. It's financial time travel. But there is a catch. You need to deploy that capital into something that grows faster than the cost of borrowing. If you do that, you win. If you don't, then you just brought future problems into the present debt is time travel, and most people just waste the trip. That's why debt has a bad name. Debt Free surely is not the goal. But you know, even hitting a certain net worth or income mark is not an end goal. Their financial goal. But not the end. The end goal is genuinely living the best version of you. And in fact, let's listen to this together for a minute or two from the parallel truth. Are you really living? It's a little oversimplified, but this is quite a bit more substantive than civil engineers wearing Levi's 100% cotton Dockers. Don't be startled by the sound effects.   Speaker 3  30:23   If you really think working 50 years at a job you hate just to get a few years of so called Freedom makes sense, then I'm sorry to say, you have been brainwashed. This is not living. It's a trap. From the moment you're born, the system starts programming you. School doesn't teach you to think. It teaches you to obey, to sit still, follow orders and wait for permission. Then comes work, where your best years, your energy, your creativity, all get drained away to build someone else's dream. And they call that success. Retirement is the prize they dangle in front of you. Work hard now, they say, so one day you can finally rest. But by the time that day comes, your body's worn out, your fire's gone, and all those dreams you once had, they faded into routine. You traded your time for money and then your health to earn it back. And here's the cruel truth, that's not an accident. It's designed that way, a system built to keep you tired, broke and too distracted to notice what's really happening. They want you so busy surviving that you forget to actually live the scam is simple. They steal your youth when it's full of energy, passion and possibility, and then hand you back your freedom when you're too weak to use it. And the worst part, most people defend the very system that's enslaving them. They call it normal life. They laugh at anyone who questions it, because it's easier to believe the lie than to face the truth. But nothing about this is normal. It's just comfortable enough to stop you from revolting. They give you weekends, holidays and Netflix tiny doses of relief so you don't question the cage you live in. You were born to create, to explore, to build your own path, not to clock in and out until the day you die. The world doesn't need more workers. It needs more thinkers, more dreamers, more people brave enough to walk away from the illusion. So ask yourself, are you really living or just slowly dying inside a system that calls itself freedom?   Speaker 4  31:59   Yeah. Are you truly living or just existing with GRE plan, you can often retire in five to 10 years. So no debt isn't something to fear. It's something to understand. Because the difference between being stuck financially and moving forward faster than you thought possible, it often comes down to one thing, whether you avoid debt or you learn to use it, the American dream is not about being debt free. It's more about owning assets, leveraging wisely, and then letting time tenants and inflation do some of the heavy lifting for you, all of your life. Debt is the American dream, and I've got more on this for you today, coming up here on the show in future, GRE episodes, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki publicly states that he has $1.4 billion in debt, billion with a B, not because he's irresponsible, because he understands leverage and debt often entails a tax advantage with it too. Later this spring, Robert Kiyosaki returns to the show with me here. He's been one of our more recurrent guests over time. Next week, Redfin chief economist, Darrell fairweather, PhD, sits down with me here. Also a lot of other prominent guests lined up, like real estate influencer thatch Wynn will be here with me and lots of other great episodes coming up, including a lot of content that you wouldn't expect to hear that can make a real difference in your life. Be sure to follow or subscribe to the show and also tell a friend about the show today could very well be one of these paradigm shifting episodes that you want to share on social media. More straight ahead you're listening to debt is the American Dream On get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  33:50   Let me throw out a simple idea, sometimes doing nothing with your money is actually a decision. Leaving it parked might feel safe, but over time, purchasing power changes. So the conversation isn't about chasing returns. It's about intentionally placing money somewhere. Freedom, family investments works in real estate people use every day housing, senior communities, essential properties, things tied to living and not trends, their freedom notes. Offering is built for accredited investors looking for structured income backed by real assets, not speculation. I am an investor with them myself. The Freedom team makes themselves available to walk through their approach, structure and operating philosophy, so you can ask questions and determine alignment before moving forward, while past performance doesn't guarantee future results, their historical operating philosophy has yielded 100% investor payouts backed by over 20 years of experience. If you want clarity before making any moves, book a clarity call. At freedom familyinvestments.com or text family to 66 866, text the word family to 66 866.    Keith Weinhold  35:12   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721 the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash, slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre   Tom Wheelwright  35:50   This is Rich Dad Advisor Tom wheelwright. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  36:02   You welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold its debt is the American dream on episode 600 now, just before taking the mic, about 30 minutes ago, I ate some raspberries. I looked at the package to see where they were grown Mexico. Someone in Mexico supplied them. There was a supply chain. Those raspberries were planted in rows with trellising grown, and then they need to be hand picked. They're highly perishable, and they need to be shipped a long way fast, therefore, I just simply had the exorbitant privilege of buying those raspberries from a lit refrigerated store shelf with my dollars. Well, effectively, a bank lent me those dollars. Most of my debt is real estate debt, where time, tenants and inflation service my debt for me. I mean, what an amazing world. I'm just here to control those flows, those flows of money between Mexican raspberry growers, for my property managers that manage my tenants and for the banks that provide the loan. I mean, gosh, debt really is the American dream. It made raspberries appear. This is a contrarian way of thinking, but it's calculated. It's unconventional, but it's first principles thinking, rather than emotions from grandpa. You know something I've said it before that. Hey, I'm proud that throughout my life I have never ridden the government dole. Once. Never have I done that. I've never accepted a subsidy, no covid stimulus checks. I've never accepted an unemployment check in my life, even though I could have been eligible one time. I'm proud of that, because otherwise taxpayers would have had to work for me and pay for me. But in a way, since so many of my mortgage loans are subsidized, I am riding the government dole to get 30 year mortgage money at a 7% interest rate, that's also tax deductible, so therefore maybe I'm paying 5% I mean, that's a really good deal, and the government backing makes banks want to provide lucrative loans to us, just like the FHA program that I personally began with on a fourplex, and Just like these first 10 Fannie, Mae, Freddie Mac backed investor loans that you can get for one to four unit properties. So although it's indirect, it's really like a government handout that we're getting. And what can we do when we can do our part in giving back by doing good in the world and providing good housing, not being slumlords. That's the path that we're on here and the future, it's always going to feel uncertain. Always, I'm encouraging you. You've got to plant the tree, you've got to take the leap. You've got to choose to believe that there is something worth building toward optimism is not about ignoring what's broken in the world. It's about deciding anyway to keep on going, and you're probably doing a lot right, working hard, earning, well, a little saving, but more investing. There's a problem that very few people talk about, labor income is taxed heavily, asset income is treated better, and then 401, K income, well, that doesn't even start arriving until you're about 60 or 70. And really, this is why a lot of high performing. Professionals eventually hit a wall. They make more money, but they don't feel much freer. The people who break out usually do one thing differently. They stop relying on one income source, and they start building income producing assets, and that's where I come in, you already know how to do things like budget and save. We all learned that quite a long time ago, and we've all heard the usual advice about maxing out your 41k waiting for years and just sort of hoping, and that might build a nest egg like that usually does turn into something, and it's better than nothing. It usually won't build outsized returns or freedom, though, and surely not while you're young enough to fully enjoy it. So get rich education is about a different path, building durable wealth through income, property, financial education and smarter leverage, certainly not day trading, certainly not get rich quick, just a proven framework for escaping overdependence on a paycheck, a generationally proven vehicle here and here you get the mindset and tactics to make generationally proven real estate a life changing investment because most people are Climbing the wrong mountain. A lot of smart professionals spend 30 years trying to save their way to freedom, but wealth usually grows faster when you own assets that produce income appreciate over time, offer tax advantages and can be financed with long term debt. That's how you get a lot of them. That is the difference between working hard and building leverage. So you can't out earn a broken wealth strategy.    Keith Weinhold  41:47   Most people earn income, but few people own income. You own the source of the income when you have rental property. A lot of smart professionals really learn that too late, Your salary alone doesn't even have the ability to make you wealthy, since wealth is freedom. So we use an abundance mentality to invest in assets that are scarce. Most people use a scarcity mentality, leading with loss aversion, to invest in something that's abundant and plentiful. So there is always opportunity out there in a market as big and as broad as the US residential real estate market. Where is that opportunity today? Well, I'll tell you that list prices rose 2% year over year to a median of 423k that's in the four week period that just ended according to Redfin. But notice I said that was the list price buyers haggled them down to about 389k that's really significant. It's really proof that sellers are willing to bend in today's markets. So therefore in most markets, I'm encouraging you to make an offer that's below the list price, as we know, available for sale property that is still scarce in a lot of the Northeast and Midwest, and supply is abundant in Texas and Florida. But here's the thing, although Florida inventory is higher now than it was pre pandemic over that six or seven year stretch, here's the new trend, and it's worthwhile to identify inflection points like this on a year over year basis. So looking at only the past one year, Florida inventory is now down 4% it's no longer going up. So it's possible that we've reached the peak of this new Florida supply. We could have hit the turning point now, and yet, builders are still buying down your mortgage rate to about 4% giving you that long term fixed rate on new builds. So I'm telling you, that's where the opportunity is now. As far as the rent side, nationally, I don't see rents going up significantly anytime soon, and that's for most everything, single family rentals all the way up to huge apartment buildings. Rent increases in the single family to fourplex space, they showed some real promise last spring, a year ago, but as we got into summer, they didn't really materialize. Now, although you get rent increases historically, it's never wise to buy and just assume that that is automatic. But I want to underscore the fact that you really should not count on a rent increase over the next year. So that's new builds.    Keith Weinhold  44:53   The other area ripe for opportunity. Here is burrs, buy, renovate, rent. Finance and repeat properties and among GRE listeners, burrs have been our most popular investment over the past two years. Yeah, Memphis, Little Rock, Birmingham and Kansas City, they are our hottest and most reliable burr markets, and we've really improved our burr operations since first helping you with those found the secret sauce, as far as helping you get the right provider that doesn't leave you hanging on the renovation, burrs are also good for you if you have fewer investment resources than what new build properties require. GRE coaching calls and our coaching program are completely free to help you with this now. Of course, our investment coaches listen to all the GRE episodes like you. They're aligned, and we have family guys that work here, like our investment coach Naresh. He has a wife and kids, and he's just the type of person that you want to see succeed in life and that you would enjoy working with over time. And we are all investors ourselves here, every one of us, so it doesn't hurt to set up a 30 minute consultation call to see if our GRE coaching program is right for you, some good, abundantly minded council for free. Our investment coaches have access to the best deals in real time. That alone is worth a connection. We're in constant communication with the top national providers in the best markets. So there might be an incentive today, like, say, a builder rate by down to 4% that didn't exist just two days ago or yesterday. So this is why investors are succeeding. They're also succeeding thanks to our recent Florida online live event. Connect with us to watch the replay and get in on these deals yourself. In fact, we have never seen so many incentives and price reductions in GRE history as we are right now. And see, here's the thing, when it comes to you making an offer below the list price, because our coaches work with other GRE listeners, they're going to know how low that seller is really going to go for you on that price. So that negotiation is some key information that you can learn. We have access to more than 200 deals nationwide, so contact our real estate investment coaches to get access and these burr properties can give you a super high ROI, because sometimes you can end up with as little as 10k or 20k of equity invested in an income producing single family rental. That's probably going to be 20k or more. And then with some of these developers that overbuilt in places like Florida, make that offer use good debt and take advantage of that interest rate in the fours. Buy low. And the reason that these new build deals provide positive income is because you buy at a lower purchase price overall, and you get a fixed rate in the fours, and you get a low property insurance rate, since they are new build properties, you don't need urgency right now so much as you need clarity, because there are opportunities, real ones, whether it's burrs in the Midwest or builder incentives in places like Florida, where you can Get those 4% rates. But the challenge isn't finding opportunity, it's knowing which one is right for you, and that's exactly what we help you do. And since our coaches are active investors themselves, they follow the same markets and the same providers and the same strategies that we talk about here on the show. So instead of guessing or going back and forth in emails, just get clear book, a quick call. It's free, it's 30 minutes, and it could save you months or years of going in the wrong direction. You can do that@greinvestmentcoach.com that's greinvestmentcoach.com the best thing you can do next is get aligned with the right opportunity. I'll chat with you in a week. I'm Keith Weinhold. Don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  49:35   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively the.   Speaker 4  50:03   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com

The 2026 NCAA Swimming & Diving season is officially in the books! Bryan and John are back from Atlanta (Georgia Tech) to recap a wild week of record-breaking performances and controversial format changes. From the Virginia Women securing an epic 6th straight title to the Texas Men going back-to-back, the dynasties are alive and well—but the sport is changing. We dive deep into the "no B-finals" experiment, the decision to open the meet with the 1650 Freestyle, and why Josh Liendo and Hubi Kos setting NCAA records in the morning was met with "crickets" in the stands. We also discuss our Social Kick Afterparty at Margaritaville with Olympic Champ Daniel Wiffen and our vision for turning the NCAAs into a 6-day combined "festival" of swimming.

Keith explores how major geopolitical conflicts tend to reshape—not destroy—real estate markets, redirecting demand away from active war zones and toward safer, more stable regions. He explains how inflation, interest rates, and supply disruptions interact with property values over time, and why certain locations and asset types are more resilient than others. Investor and CEO Dani‑Lynn Robison, joins the conversation, to talk about building long-term wealth through "needs-based" real estate and the idea of a personal "wealth window" — the finite period when combining active income with compounding can have the biggest impact. They discuss the shift many investors make from being hands-on operators to more passive capital allocators, and why calm, long-term strategies focused on essential housing and services can help investors navigate uncertainty and technological change without panic. Resources: "Ready to see how these strategies could fit your own wealth plan? Book a free 20‑minute Capital Architecture Call with Dani‑Lynn's team—just text WINDOW to 66866 to get started. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/599 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  FAMILY to 66866  Unlock truly passive real estate income—visit flockhomes.com/GRE today to see if your properties qualify for a 721 exchange with Flock Homes. Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, wars are extremely expensive. The one to $2 billion spent on the Iran war every day is stoking inflationary pressure. How do wars affect real estate and will values appreciate 10% or more this year? You'll get clear answers, then I'll speak with a woman that I entrust with my own funds today on Get Rich Education.   Corey Coates  0:34   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:17   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com, that's Ridge lendinggroup.com.   Speaker 1  1:51   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:07   Welcome to GRE from Canterbury, England to Sunbury, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. How does war affect real estate? The war with Iran that began one month ago has really brought this to light. Now, a lot of armchair analysts and even some people with experience, they succumb to folly by having an emotionally driven hunch, as we like to say here at GRE take history over hunches. First look at what's actually happened historically, and at least let that inform the hunch Oh, and now you've brought pragmatism to the question of what happens to real estate in wartime. Now the latest war in the Middle East happened at a time where the existing picture is that US residential real estate prices are stable. Values are not rising or falling very much, and it's been rather slow overall and historically low transaction volume, fewer sellers and fewer buyers, and mortgage rates are near historic norms. I'll get back to us real estate shortly. But as you might imagine, real estate values that are actually in direct war zones, they get pummeled. So we're talking about many parts of the Middle East at this time in history, Iran, Israel, Lebanon, the UAE. In fact, values in the war zones collapse fast when there's physical danger. Properties can be damaged or totally leveled. Insurance becomes unavailable or meaningless, buyers disappear, liquidity dries up. The result is that prices fall hard, sometimes to near zero in active conflict zones. And that completely makes sense. I mean, would you want to make an offer to buy a property in an active war zone, I wouldn't now in safe regions that are adjacent to the war zone. Oh, the opposite has happened historically. Values surge because you've got refugees and migrants that flood into those nearby safer cities. Rental demand spikes immediately, and vacancy collapses. So in these adjacent safe areas, rents jump first, and then prices follow. In fact, when Russia invaded Ukraine back in 2022 this is exactly what happened across Eastern Europe. Cities like Warsaw Poland saw rent Spike. Almost overnight. All right, historically, what has war done to interest rates and inflation, like I alluded to last week, I think you already know that they both rise during wartime, and they sure are Now historically, war triggers energy shocks like oil and gas, and during this war, the energy shocks are greater than usual due to the Middle East being oil rich, war trigger supply chain disruptions and government spending surges. It's been well documented that the US has been spending one to $2 billion every single day on the war with Iran, and this is what can lead to that higher inflation and higher interest rates. And here's the tension for real estate, higher mortgage rates often put downward pressure on real estate prices, but yet inflation puts upward pressure on housing and all types of real assets. So the result there is this short term tug of war longer term, the real estate wins in inflation because it's a hard asset with debt attached. But back to the direct war zones, construction slows and supply tightens, and that's because war disrupts the very availability of labor and materials like steel and fuel and shipping developer confidence goes down the tubes too, and the result is that fewer homes get built, and then existing inventory becomes more valuable after the war, and this is The underappreciated force. Less supply later means higher prices later. Now let's talk outside the war zone. And before I do you know, gosh, it's amazing, whenever the US is involved in a war, it's almost never on American soil that's us hegemony and geography at work. There stuff's always getting blown up on the other side of the world. Rarely where I live in America, but here at home, military and government hubs can boom during war because the war spending is not spread out evenly. Defense contractors expand military bases, scale up logistics hubs get busier with that stuff. In mind, you can think then about which us locations can really boom with economic activity during wartime, as sad as it is for the active combatants and casualties, so the result is for the US to have localized housing boom, something that's often overlooked, but it's very real. And the big takeaway, and this is what most people miss, is that war does not crash real estate. It reroutes demand in destruction zones, there's collapse in safe, stable areas, like certain us regions, there's often a surge and on a national level in the US now, the result is mixed and resilient. And over time, inflation plus constrained supply plus population shifts tend to push values higher in the surviving markets. That is history over hunches. So then a better question than, how do wars affect real estate is instead, where does demand go next? That's a great question. Now, when you think about US military and defense corridors that benefit that's places like Tampa, Huntsville, Alabama, Norfolk, Virginia, and say, San Diego, because historically, defense budgets expand. Contractors hire aggressively and military personnel increases if higher mortgage rates persist and it keeps housing affordability strained, the winners tend to be lower cost resilient markets, places like Cleveland, Memphis and Kansas City. When the war with Iran began, 30 year mortgage rates were 5.98% and then they quickly shot up to about six and a half. They are still lower today than they were a year ago, even during geopolitical chaos, domestic migration really doesn't stop. People will keep piling into boring Sunbelt suburbs in Florida, Texas and Arizona. Now, if war causes domestic travel to drop in the US, and that's an if what happens historically is that short term rentals and hospitality driven real estate can get hurt. Think places like Las Vegas and Orlando. Now, let me have a word with you on interest rates. For a couple years now, people have talked with certainty about how mortgage rates and interest rates have all turned. Types are gonna go down like they've just gotta go down like it's a foregone conclusion or something. And as you know, all this time, I have been resolute in conveying the fact that you cannot predict interest rates with any certainty, and trying to spend time doing so is a fantastic way to waste your time, and sure enough, with a new war, rates rose, they didn't fall. I will forecast home prices, but no one can predict rates. Today, the Fed talks about increasing the rate more than cutting the rate. Now, inflation has been in this small range between two and a half and 3% for almost the year now, inflation has been above the Fed's 2% target. Do you realize this every single month for more than five years now, floating high for more than 60 months in a row before I discuss what Ward does to the rate of inflation.   Keith Weinhold  11:06   let me share something kind of humorous with you. My height of five feet, 11 inches. This is the most honest height that a man can be. Here. I am 511 I weigh 174 every other man of my height rounds up and says they're six feet tall. I'm telling you, heightflation among men is every bit as rampant as price inflation among consumers, but you don't have any choice in the price inflation, so History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. Back in the 1970s America experienced what some people call this famous double hump inflation, because in 1974 It peaked at over 12% and then just about five years later, you had another peak of almost 15% inflation and that ran into the beginning of 1980 back in the 70s, those inflation homes were caused by an oil embargo, Nixon, severing the dollar from gold and the Iranian Revolution. Yes, Iran back then too. All right, well, here in more modern times, could we experience a double hump again? Because we had the covid inflation wave that peaked in 2022 and next, could we have another inflation wave five or six years later, just like the 70s? Did you probably already know the story back then, that's when inflation only got crushed. How did we deal with it? Then when Fed Chair Paul Volcker ruthlessly jacked the Fed funds rate to near 20% and that made mortgage rates blast past 18% in 1981 yeah, that all makes today's mortgage rates sound rather adorable, doesn't it? The war with Iran, it is already the biggest oil supply disruption in history, more than double the previous record in the 1950s This is not a small deal. There's a real potential for inflation to spike higher. The oil supply shocks things, because oil is the master ingredient of the global economy. Even if the war winds down, it takes time for things to get back online, but really, the way to think of oil is the master ingredient, that's the way to think of it, the master ingredient. I mean, it's embedded in nearly everything except your morning coffee, plastics, chemicals, fertilizers, transportation. So like an economic octopus, oils. Tentacles extend everywhere. For example, higher fertilizer costs now mean higher food prices later and yep, eventually even your morning coffee, although the US does not rely directly on the Strait of Hormuz for oil, those prices are set on the global market. I myself sailed through the Strait of Hormuz in 2020 and it didn't feel so perilous to me then I was on a cruise ship. But in wartime, you don't want to be on an oil tanker. Why not? Well, it's just the slowest moving vehicle on Earth, packed with the most flammable liquid on earth through the most active war zone on Earth. About a week later, I also flew over the heart of Iran, and it is quite an inhospitable looking place, arid with tall mountains. In fact, they have the highest mountain in the Middle East there. It's called Mount damavanda, about 18,400 feet In Iran   Keith Weinhold  15:01   Dubai, real estate is not going to be the same for a long time, maybe ever. It's said. It's been bombed pretty often this year. So all of this is not ephemeral, what the US calls operation epic fury. It could elevate inflation for years. Wars are expensive, missiles, aircraft carriers, troop deployments, all the logistics, we are not going to pay for all of that with savings. Lol, let's all pause right now for the audience laughter. We don't have savings. We pay for it with debt, and the easiest way to pay for gigantic spending programs is to just quietly and sort of surreptitiously print more dollars. That's inflation. It dilutes every single dollar that you own now, every $20 bill in your wallet, every $100 in your savings account, inflation also debases every dollar of your real estate equity and every dollar in your stock portfolio. You'll remember that about six months ago, right here, I pointed out that though Trump says he wants low inflation, his behavior is highly inflationary. One thing to keep in mind is that, whether you like the President or not, what he does is when he sees the economy hurting, like with high gas prices or with the sinking stock market, what he does is he acts much like he did on tariff tweaks, but at some point it becomes too late to reverse course. You've got to ask, Have we cut rates too much? The Fed made rate cuts both last year and the year before, and meanwhile, a monetary puzzle keeps on brewing. The war could make things awkward, because we're supposed to have a new Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, coming in a month and a half. Trump wants him to lower rates, but if inflation heats up, the obvious solution is to jack up rates. US stock investors are already feeling it, because the indices entered correction territory last week due to the war a correction means a drop of 10% or more from a recent peak, and us real estate investors are well insulated. Like I said, long term high inflation boosts values. Rents are even more stable than prices and rents, as long as you're outside of the direct war zone, have very little relation to the war. But systemic supply chain disruptions can be a real thing that fuels inflation, and here's why. See, manufacturers used to keep eight to 12 weeks of inventory in stock, but no longer. Today, we've got the efficient just in time supply chains and there is less stock on the shelf. The system is fragile. That's why this domino effect can create this long term economic headache of shortages and inflation. Have you seen any empty shelves yet, like we did during the pandemic, I have not but as we know, during inflationary times, investors flock to hard assets, it can help to have a little gold, I think, truly just a little. But in wartime, the most advantaged investment class is right where we already are. It is residential real estate held with debt. We are out here winning the GRE inflation triple crown because property values rise, debt becomes cheaper in real dollars and rents increase over time, all while inflation cannot touch your fixed mortgage payment amount. Now, during the last wave of high inflation, that was 2021 and 2022 us real estate prices were up 10 to 20% in each one of those years, not aggregate, but each one of those years. Do I think that this can happen again if we have another big wave of war generated inflation? No, I don't, I do not believe that national real estate prices can rise as much as 10% over the next 12 months, even amidst this low supply condition, and that is because of the ongoing affordability constraint. As for inflation, the cobasy Letter reported an inflation expectation of 5.2% over the next 12 months. There are other projections in the fours out there, but so much will change between now and then. So I think even they would acknowledge that that is a guess. Above all, wars are tragic. Let's acknowledge that the bottom line here is that wars are expensive too. They create inflation, and residential real estate held with debt is more than an inflation hedge. It's an inflation profiting machine. Straight ahead, we'll talk more about what's happening in the real estate market, in some different sectors. It's with a woman that I invest my own funds with for a stable real estate backed return. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 599 of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  20:39   Let me throw out a simple idea, sometimes doing nothing with your money is actually a decision. Leaving it parked might feel safe, but over time, purchasing power changes. So the conversation isn't about chasing returns, it's about intentionally placing money somewhere. Freedom, family investments works in real estate people use every day, housing, senior communities, essential properties, things tied to living and not trends. Their freedom notes offering is built for accredited investors looking for structured income backed by real assets, not speculation. I am an investor with them myself. The Freedom team makes themselves available to walk through their approach, structure and operating philosophy so you can ask questions and determine alignment before moving forward, while past performance doesn't guarantee future results, their historical operating philosophy has yielded 100% investor payouts backed by over 20 years of experience. If you want clarity before making any moves, book a clarity call at Freedom. Familyinvestments.com or text family to 66 866, text the word family to 66 866,    Keith Weinhold  22:00   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g R, E.   Kristen Tate  22:39   This is author, Kristin Tate. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  22:55   Today we're talking about the wealth window. Why this moment in real estate is different in the opinion of our guest. I'm talking with a woman that I invest my own liquid dollars with because we've been friends for a decade. They have a track record of making investor payouts 100% of the time and on time. She's the founder and CEO of freedom family investments and owns eight real estate businesses. What they invest in, and therefore what my funds are backed by, is recession resilient, needs based real estate like multifamily, senior housing and self storage. I have a book on my bookshelf that she and her husband wrote, called Get Real and she has an upcoming book, calm money never panics, and a forthcoming Netflix documentary that's going to bring her message to a global audience, as her new partnership with Dr Phil to bring Straight Talk financial clarity to more people. Her philosophy is we measure success, not just by ROI, but by return on life. Rol, love that welcome back to the show. Danny. Lynn Robinson,   Dani-Lynn Robison  24:07   thank you so much, Keith. I'm so happy to be here.    Keith Weinhold  24:10   You always have so many interesting things happening. Tell us about the Dr Phil McGraw partnership and how your messages really move beyond investing circles. Absolutely.   Dani-Lynn Robison  24:20   What I love is when we get to visit again each year, as we talk on a podcast and just as friends. And it's really exciting right now because of the message that I think is perfect timing for the world that we live in right now and how fast things are changing, and Dr Phil came into the picture to really bring visibility to what we're doing and what we're talking about, because there's urgency just around AI and technology and what it's doing to the world and the uncertainty in the marketplace. Because I'm on conversations every single day with investors who just aren't sure what to do anymore. They're just like, I'm not sure exactly where to invest. I don't know what the future holds, and we can't rely. On history anymore, and so it's that instability that we're talking about that people probably feel more than they actually articulate very well in the world and in the economy and our finances. I mean, I don't know if you heard the stat, but chat GPT reached 100 million users in 60 days, like fastest adoption of technology and human history. So really, Dr Phil was, how do I get this message out to the world in a bigger way? And he brings such visibility to everything that he does. So does the documentary, so does the new book. So I'm putting it all together and doing lots of things, and I'm super excited.   Keith Weinhold  25:37   Dr Phil does more than just lecture teen girls that are brats to their parents, Dr Phil needs to invest as well. And you know, Danny, part of the stability that you offer and what you're into is just sort of this premise that we know as real estate investors, that not all real estate is created equal. For example, look at what happened to the office space post covid, and you really are formative with needs based real estate, like I said, and where capital's flowing now into that more resilient sector. Can you tell us more about that?   Dani-Lynn Robison  26:14   Yeah, absolutely. So let me touch on a few other things about AI and technology, and we're going to run into this analogy that I like to use about the river. So right now, with what everything that's going on, I'm calling it the final frontier, the final frontier of building wealth as we know it. And the reason I say it that way is I'm a big believer in not talking about fear based messaging, like I hate things that like the news that just brings fear into your face and makes you scared of everything that's going on, but I am a fan of being real, right? And everything that's going on right now, like as careers are changing over the next five to 10 years, we're just talking with high income earners about what's going on and why we're doing what we're doing, why we're positioning ourselves into what I call this river analogy. And it's because of another stat. There's a bunch of them, but I remember this one always top of mind because it happened five months ago, and I saw it in the news, and I was like, oh my goodness, it's already started, and that's just UPS cutting 48,000 jobs, right? And like I said, I've got articles that are just like, you can just see it, and everybody again feels and see it coming like the writing is on the wall. So when we were looking at what we want to do over the next five to 10 years, as we see what's happening, we're always evaluating that and figuring out where we want to position ourselves and why. And that's where this recession resilient real estate came in. Needs based real estate came in. The phrase not all real estate is created equal, came in, and it's what I'm shouting from the rooftops here, because I think no matter where you invest and who you invest with, I think this is a conversation worth having and questions worth asking. And so the visual I like to use is this, imagine standing on the bank of a river, right? So the water is moving in one direction, towards the path of least resistance. It doesn't fight geography. It flows exactly to where it's needed. So when we talk about real estate, we're talking about where is money flowing right now, in real estate. So we've always invested in the Midwest and southeast. That's where, you know population growth is. A lot of people are investing there. And then we chose three asset classes that I talk about a lot, and this is things that your listeners should write down. If you're driving, don't write down. Just remember it. So the first one is workforce housing. So we chose that one because one in nine Americans live in workforce housing today. Construction has dropped 40% since 2023 so there's a huge supply gap. The second asset class is senior housing, the silver tsunami. I'm sure you've heard of that. Yeah, 10,000 Americans every single day are turning 65 until 2030 and then, if you study all of the stats and you watch the timing of retirement, this ripples like into 2040 so it's 14 years for this asset class that's going to be really, really great for us to be investing in. We're getting very fast, yes, yes. And then the one I was surprised by was self storage. This one, I didn't, I didn't even think about as a recession resilient asset class, but it's actually outpaced traditional real estate over the last 15 years. For some reason, when people are looking at their bills and what they choose to pay, storage is one of them. They want to protect the things that they own, their family heirlooms, whatever it is, businesses want to protect the things that they have, they're putting it in storage. So those are the three asset classes that we're investing in. So our strategy isn't predict markets. It's positioning in that river, right where is the money flowing to? And it's workforce housing, senior housing and self storage. So I always tell people, the question isn't Are you investing in real estate? It's what real estate are you investing in, and are you positioned where the capital is flowing towards, or are you trying to swim upstream? And so that's the needs based versus wants based. Real Estate like the wants based, you nailed it, like luxury apartments, vacation rentals, Class A developments, office and retail space, whereas needs based. Place are the three asset classes I just talked about, because people need a place to live. They always need to care for their aging parents. They always need storage. And these are just things that people cannot live without.   Keith Weinhold  30:12   It doesn't surprise people that workforce housing, which is basically entry level housing, and senior housing, are recession resilient. What surprises some people that aren't in the real estate space is how resilient self storage is. Even in recessionary times, people will not give up that storage locker. They get incredibly sentimental off things that have very little value. Or, you know, they're 1985 baseball cards of Roger Clemens or something. They will continue to pay for that self storage unit year after year? Yeah. Now I know that you often discuss what you call the wealth window, why you feel like this specific moment is different in real estate, and why acting beats waiting. Tell us about that.   Dani-Lynn Robison  30:55   What I'm referring to in the wealth window is that point in everybody's life where the combination of active income and compounding is at its peak, right? Because it's always, always, always easier to build a passive income stream when you already have active income working for you. And so I use an example. Doesn't matter what type of career that you have, but imagine somebody investing $2,000 a month at 35 and how that performs compared to somebody who waited till 40 years old and they started investing 4000 a month. So the 40 year old actually doubled the amount that they're investing per month, but the 35 year old is likely going to outperform all the time because of the compounding effect of those five years where they started earlier. Incredible how that works. Yeah, it's incredible. So it's that wealth window that I like to talk about, that people, especially right now, with what's going on I'm getting on the phone. They're like, Danny, this is where my money is. And I know it's not where it should be, but I just don't know what to do. It's this uncertainty. And so I like to talk about the wealth window that, hey, it's not just the return that you're going to be getting because your money's working for you and not sitting in either a place that's getting no return or a very, very low return, but it's also the window of time in which you can actually grow in very, very big ways and allow it to outperform somebody who starts later in life. So I call it the whale of window, because I wanted this imagery of the window closing, and that every single day the window continues to close. And right now, what makes it different than history is what's happened over the last 20 years and what's going to happen over the next 20 years is drastically different. And again, not trying to go fear based messaging, because I hate that more than anybody else, but I am trying to keep it real, right? Careers are already disappearing. I've got a book coming out this next month for physicians, and I was studying what's happening to their industry, right? And we have a lot of engineers that are on our private investor briefings. And as I'm studying those industries, I'm watching things that we maybe wouldn't realize are going to go away, and I'm seeing how it's already started, and that there's some industries or niches within those industries, they're going to go away faster, and that this conversation is not for particular people. It's for everybody, all of us, over the next 510, years, we don't know what's going to happen. We can't predict it. So there's a couple other stats that I wrote down to share on this, because a lot of the people I'm talking to are still sitting in the stock market because they wanted you know something that they were familiar with, right? And something that they knew that they could get their capital out if they wanted. Yeah.   Keith Weinhold  33:25   And we're here at a time when valuations based on PE ratios are near all time highs in the stock   Dani-Lynn Robison  33:31   market, yes. And so the stock market right now. There's two articles that I talk about all the time on my briefings, and the first one was because I just looked to see what's happening recently. And you may even know something that's happened more recent than these. But February 5, Reuters reported us. Software stocks lost nearly a trillion dollars in a week. And I was like a week, and in that article, it was Microsoft and Salesforce as to the service now, I think was in there too. That dropped like five to 7% disruption there, yes, yes. And the Wall Street Journal reported February 3, 300 billion wiped off software in a single day. And so this AI and technology disruption. It's real, and it's in the headlines. And for all of us that who see it coming, it's just moving faster. And I think any of us realize everybody to talk to, they're like, I can't even keep up anymore. I can't keep up with what's going on the market, what's working, what's not working. Every time I try to adapt to something new, something new comes out tomorrow, and we're just kind of stuck in this place of uncertainty. So that's why, again, I'm just really having this big conversation about the time is now. Getting clarity is important right now. Taking action, even if it's small, is important right now, knowing where your money is and whether you can rely on it later is important right now. And for me, needs based real estate is where it's at.   Keith Weinhold  34:49   Few people that are well thought through, in my opinion, believe that AI is going to permanently reduce the workforce, but it could in the short term, but long term, when you look at. The advent of any new invention, it often creates more jobs, but just shifts where they're going to be, whether that's the steam engine or the automobile or electricity or the advent of the Internet. That has what has happened every time, really no substantial net job loss, at least in the long term. But we all need to evolve. We all need to learn and stay current on this. And Danny Lynn, I know that part of the evolution that you talk about for investors is that from operator to allocator tell us about that. Yeah.   Dani-Lynn Robison  35:35   So I love this conversation, because it's not something that people talk about a lot. I bet you have, because you have gone through this journey, right? So I'm going to call stage one landlord. It's where a lot of people enter real estate, because when you want to become a real estate investor, we all aren't sure where to start, but we've already reached ad for dad. And So level one is landlord. Stage two is turnkey, which you talk about a lot on your podcast, and it's kind of that done for you, landlord, rental model. And then stage three is like funds and more passive investing, which I call the allocator model. So how I define operator now, allocator is really in this stage one, stage two, stage three, right? The operator is stage one, landlord, you are doing it, right? You're finding the property. Maybe you're renovating it. Maybe you're doing you're just doing a lot of the work yourself, because maybe you're new, and that's how you think it should be done. So you're the operator in that situation. Stage two turnkey. Now it's done for you right now. You really just need to look at the opportunities, the properties, and you get to choose one, but somebody else found it, they renovated it, they placed a tenant in it. They're probably going to manage it for you. So this one, I think you're part operator, because you are managing some aspects of it. It's still yours. You still control the asset. But you're also part allocator, because you got to just deploy capital into something that somebody else helped do a lot of that work that an operator normally would do. So that's like, kind of your middle ground stage two, right? Which is a great place to be. And then stage three is that discovery of funds, where you can actually deploy capital into people who do everything for you, and you can get, you know, quarterly distributions, or allow things to compound, and you don't have to do any of the work. So those are the three stages that I talk about. And I know you are involved in two out of the three. I am two. You may tell me you're involved in all three, but I know for sure you're involved at a two out of the three, and I think a lot of people are. We've had investors come to us with rental portfolios, and they decided they wanted the mix, right? They wanted to keep some of the properties. They also wanted to liquidate some of the property, or they kept their entire portfolio, and decided, I just want to add funds to the mix. Because you talk about this a lot on your podcast, and that's getting time back right? The return on time. That's why I like return on life, because I think our time is probably our most precious asset, more than finances. In my opinion, I want my time. I want to be able to choose where it's spent. And really, that allocator, this is the banks, right? They're at the top of the pyramid in terms of wealth, the banks and what do they do? They deploy into good operators. So I just think it's an important conversation to have, and it's why I do funds and syndications, and I do that more than anything else, because I saw the lives of my investors turn, and they were just so much happier because they weren't having to manage as much. And again, they still, many of them balance between the two. I just think it's a really great conversation to have    Keith Weinhold  38:26   this metamorphosis from operator to somewhere in the middle, like a turnkey investor, and then finally, an allocator. Yeah. I mean, you're spot on. And that describes me perfectly. I began as an operator where I thought I had to manage my own properties, and I only did that in my local market. Then I learned about turnkey real estate investing, which is still squarely where I am as an investor, but increasingly I do more and more of the allocation because it is substantially more passive, and really that's where you come in. You help me be the bank in many cases, and as a turnkey investor. Oppositely, I want to be the borrower and create leverage and all that. But in the allocator phase, it can make sense to be a lender with liquidity, and you offer this private money lending that I participate in and help me be the allocator. So tell us more about that, and really just what qualifications one needs to invest    Dani-Lynn Robison  39:24   Absolutely. So we have multiple offerings. The one I talk about a lot right now is our freedom notes. And like you said, it's very much like private money lending. It's a promissory note. So one of the things that I've never liked about investing is sometimes it's very confusing how it works. And I say this is Warren Buffett. Actually, you should never invest in something you don't understand. But that's like, my mindset as well as like, if I don't understand it, if it's too complicated for me to understand, then I don't want to invest. And so we've always gone about everything. And you can take, you know, every single podcast I've done with you right from the very beginning. Okay, we just keep things simple. And so freedom notes and all of our offerings are essentially a promissory note of sorts, and you get fixed returns, and it depends on how much you invest. We do have both accredited and non accredited options. The Freedom note is an accredited offering. It does have fixed returns up to 14% and then we actually put in a 2% bonus on top of that for people who do invest long term. And here's why I do that, we're going to be talking about calm capital in a little bit. And I believe in boring investing, right? I believe in investing long term, because emotional investors tend to lose in the end, because they're always moving their money in and out. And it just doesn't work for you long term and so although we give annual liquidity options, giving people the option to get their cash back out once a year, we do that for peace of mind, more than anything else, less than 10% of our investors actually want their cash back. They do believe in the power of long term wealth building, but they love, love, love, the peace of mind that they can have access to their capital if they need it, right? And so that was really, really hard to do in real estate, because real estate is illiquid, right? So we had to work with an attorney for a very long time to figure out how to do it. How do we offer this option, knowing that our money is tied up in real estate? And so it was a lot of conversations back and forth, but we figured it out. Obviously, there's a notice that you have to give us, and we have to have the ability to get the money out of that real estate to be able to give it back. So there's lots of moving parts, but the option is there for peace of mind. So we do that. We also created an income path and a growth path, because some people are at a stage of life where money matters. They actually want the income some people like me at a stage of life where I just want it to grow, and I want to grow as fast as possible, so I invest as much as possible, get the highest return I can, and then I want it to continue to compound, to accelerate that growth. And use time from my side.   Keith Weinhold  41:52   What are the minimum investment amounts? And can you use your 401, k or IRA to invest?   Dani-Lynn Robison  41:57   Yes, so $25,000 is the minimum. So again, we're keeping it accessible to everybody, and you can use your retirement accounts to invest some 401 ks have different rules. Our team can walk you through what those rules are and what to ask in order to determine how to deploy those funds into our investment opportunities.    Keith Weinhold  42:13   Do you put your own skin in the game on these investments? Tell us about that. I mean, I already know the answer, but let the audience know,    Dani-Lynn Robison  42:21   yes, 100% in fact, flip and I, we invest one yes, flip is my husband. Thank you for you and I have been friends for so long. You know who flip is, but my husband flip and I, yeah, we invest 100% in everything that we do. In fact, all of our money is we used to be a little diversified, and we forget that we're just investing in us and our businesses and our real estate. So we do have skin in the game, not just us, our company as well, invest alongside. So we're along the ride with you guys. We believe in this as much as everybody else, and that boils down to character. There's something that I tell people when they're talking to people that they're going to invest in what's most important when I'm on the phone, people say, Danny, what should I have asked that I didn't ask, and sometimes they don't ask that. And so I tell them to I said, this isn't the question you should have asked. And so I always tell people I answer in different ways depending on what we're talking about, but I talk about character. I said, I don't care about my returns when I'm investing. I care about the person I'm investing in, right? That comes first before anything else. Because I don't care if you told me I could get 20% possibly, but if you run away from a deal that goes bad, then I just lost everything. And I could have invested at a lower return with somebody who actually had character and who was going to stay in the fight no matter what happens. And I think we talked about this on our last podcast, Keith, just about real estate and what's happening in the industry right now, and that there are deals that have gone bad, and I've personally had a partner of mine want to leave investors hanging. We bought the deal out from under them. We just said, Nope, you guys can leave. We're taking over. Because I'm never, ever going to do that to my investors. And I think our very first podcast with you, it was talking about the worst deal that we had in a private home. Yeah, our private lender who lend it honest, never even knew what happened to that property, because I paid them everything that they were owed, plus their interest. And they didn't have to know. I would have transparently told them what was going on. But to me, it's just like, this is just my job. This is my duty. Like you trusted me with your money. I'm going to make sure you get everything back. So when I talk about these stories, it's not really stories that I talk about a whole lot, except for that, I relate it to character, and I think it's important for people to know this is one of the questions you should know to ask. It's not just what are you investing in? It's not just what's your track record. It's not just what's your returns. It's who are you as a person, and things are going to go wrong, right? This is life. This is real estate. All you do know is it. Don't know that's right. So things will go wrong. What happens when things go wrong? What happens to the company? What happens to you? What happens to the investors? That is so incredibly important,   Keith Weinhold  44:48   those that put together private money lending offerings like freedom family investments, they can't say that something is a guaranteed return, even though they have a 100% track. Record of investor payouts that's also on time. It's regulated by the SEC the Securities and Exchange Commission. And in the SEC world, guarantee is not a word that you can use. You get a preferred return, meaning that the investor gets paid first and FFI gets paid last, even though the ones putting this all together? Well, Danny Lynn, tell us more about calm capital. I know that's the philosophy behind your upcoming book.   Dani-Lynn Robison  45:31   Yeah, absolutely. So I love the conversation around calm capital because it refers to the whole boring investor idea, right? And letting your money sit and work for you over time, and that's how real wealth is built. So I believe capital preservation should come before aggressive protections. I believe downside protection should come before upside stories. I believe that you don't build and create a strategy around good times. You build and create strategies around all times, no matter what is happening in the market, and that's why needs based real estate is the thing that we stand behind the most. Because we know, no matter what this is, what people are going to prioritize. And I don't have a crystal ball. None of us do. So over the next 510, years, I'm going to invest in what I know, and I'm going to invest in things that I know will always be there and that people are always going to pay for. And that's why I sleep at night. That's why my investors sleep at night, because we are getting our time back. And that's really the philosophy around what this book is about, is just that calm money doesn't panic, because when the market panics, calm investors still win.   Keith Weinhold  46:35   Yeah, I love the premise of calm money. Well, Danny Lynn, investors and our GRE listeners have benefited from you guys's capital architecture call, a free 20 minute session that your team helps people with tell us about that and how they can learn more.   Dani-Lynn Robison  46:52   Yeah, absolutely. So the word I chose for this is window. So you'll text the word window to 66 866, and the capital architecture call is going to do five things. It's a 20 minute session. It's not a sales call. There's no obligation. Doesn't matter whether you invest with us or not, but it's going to do five things for you. First, it's going to show you how to protect and grow your capital. So this is a framework that maps out exactly how your capital should be allocated based on where you're at right now we're going to ask you if you're in preservation mode or growth mode, or maybe a balance of both. So we're just going to help you find that clarity. Second, we're going to look at your taxes. We're not CPAs and we're not tax professionals. So they said, Well, you have high level overview, but there's two ways to build wealth, right? You make money or you keep more of it. So we're going to look at the keep more of it piece and see where some of that is disappearing, and how you can legally structure things to be able to keep more of that and allow that money to be working for you. And then third, we're going to teach you our it's called the Magnus Investment Framework. My marketing team came up with that word. I always laugh when I say it, Magnus, honestly, yeah, it's honestly just the lens on how we're choosing our markets and the asset classes that we enter and which ones we stay away from. A lot of that we talked about today, because it's the conversation that I'm really having and talking about a lot. Fourth is just priority access. This just means a lot of investors are always looking for the inside track, right? They want to know, where do I find these market opportunities? Where do I find the opportunities that everybody else is trusting and I don't know how to navigate my way through the noise. So just by jumping on this call, you're going to be added to our list, and it just means you're going to get first access to anything that we're doing, or anything we're talking about or exploring that also rolls into the last one. This is just for a select few people. We do have $1 amount of a qualification, dollar amount of whether you can do this? And this is just ownership partner program. So I'm actually taking people and taking calls where they say, Danny, I want to own a property with you. So again, it has to make sense for us to actually do that, so we're looking at higher dollar commitments. But if that's of interest to you, when you jump on a call to say, I want to talk about the ownership partner program, they'll find out exactly where you're at, what you want to invest, if it's actually going to meet your goals, and then if it does, then you'll jump on a call with me and we'll talk about the deals that we're looking at. This is really where you get into the point where you get the massive tax advantages, right? Because you're an actual partner with us on the deal. And so the goal with all of this is just to be specific, because you and I can be talking about generalities all we want, but it comes down to your specific situation, right? Your specific goals. What's going on in your life? Where are you right now? Where do you want to go? And so that's what we do on that call text window to 66866,   Keith Weinhold  49:43   for you the listener, just think about if these insights can be personalized for your own situation. That's what you can get on a capital architecture call. And really everything is built around your specific income, your goals, your situation, you. And every person is going to walk away with more clarity than what they came in with, whether they invest with freedom or not. Yeah, it is a very approachable 25k minimum. Consider booking a free 20 minute capital architecture call just text window to 66 866, Danny. A lot of insights here that every investor is going to find helpful. It's been great having you back on the show. Thank you,   Dani-Lynn Robison  50:25   Keith, it was pleasure being here.   Keith Weinhold  50:32   Yeah, the life stages of investor, operator, turnkey investor, and then allocator, with the first one operator. You might think you have to be one first, but you don't. Then turnkey investor. Turnkey investor is a nice place to be. That's a real sweet spot for a lot of people. You get all the real estate pays five ways, advantages of direct ownership plus control. And then finally, the passive investor, the most passive, the allocator. So nice breakdown from Danny Lynn Robinson today, yeah, one way they help is offering freedom. Note, so what I do is, by making a loan to them, I get a stable return with the passivity of a mutual fund, but it's certainly not a mutual fund, and I get moderately good liquidity too, fixed returns, cash flow. This is a cash on cash return of 8% 10% 12% and up to 14% depending on what your liquidity needs are, and more largely backed by this needs based real estate, workforce housing, Senior Living and self storage. If you think that they can help you with that or something else, it can be a good use of your time to book a quick capital architecture. Call with them. Just text the word window to 66 866, text, window to 66 866, now, next week, it's milestone episode, 600 debt is the American dream. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  52:16   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  52:44   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

Have you ever caught yourself completely lost in a daydream… replaying a scenario, imagining a different version of your life, or stepping into a moment where you are seen, chosen, or understood in a way that feels deeply real?In this episode of The Inner Glow Podcast, we explore a different way of looking at daydreaming. Not just as creativity or imagination, but as something that might quietly reveal what is happening beneath the surface.Drawing on both psychology and personal reflection, I share how our minds tend to return to certain themes for a reason. The scenarios you find yourself drifting into again and again may hold clues about your desires, your fears, your emotional world, and even parts of yourself that are asking to be expressed.We gently explore common daydream patterns such as being recognised or admired, imagining a “comeback”, escaping into a different life, romantic connection, stepping into power, or replaying moments of conflict. Rather than analysing them in a rigid way, this episode invites you to approach them with curiosity and openness.You will be encouraged to notice the patterns in your own inner world and to reflect on what they might be pointing to, without judgement.Claim Your Free Hypnosis Recording: "Crowned in Confidence"

Hour 3: Tommy The Dreamer is dreaming and having nightmares all at the same time and he's also your therapist and could maybe diagnose and cure your depression possibly maybe but arguably not really.

GET TICKETS FOR THERAPY GECKO LIVE: therapygeckotour.com An Alaskan caller gives the scoop on local alcoholic fishermen, a young DJ maps out their future, and I read viewer mail about human bones and furries. The pool party is today. I am a gecko. GET BONUS EPISODES: therapygecko.supercast.com FOLLOW ME ON GECKOGRAM: instagram.com/lyle4ever GET WEIRD EMAILS FROM ME SOMETIMES BY CLICKING HERE.Follow me on Twitch to get a notification for when I’m live taking calls. Usually Mondays and Wednesdays but a lot of other times too. twitch.tv/lyleforeverSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hear how real estate investors can transition out of active landlording while staying invested in the asset class.  Keith speaks with Ari Rubin, founder of Flock Homes, about using a 721 Exchange to move from directly owned rental properties into a professionally managed partnership structure.  They discuss why exit planning is essential, how this strategy can defer taxes, reduce hands-on management, and provide diversified, passive income and appreciation potential for long-time landlords and portfolio builders alike. Resources: To see whether a 721 Exchange could work for your rentals, request a free property evaluation at flockhomes.com/gre Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/598 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, when it's time for you to sell your rental property, there's a vehicle you may not have heard of that allows you to exchange it into a partnership. This makes it hands off for you. Defers your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, while you still can enjoy appreciation and cash flow. It's the exit strategy that helps you retire from landlording, known as the 721 exchange today on get rich education,   Corey Coates  0:34   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast, sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:17   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com, that's Ridge lending group.com,   Speaker 1  1:51   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:07   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 today's show should help a lot of people as you grow your real estate portfolio over time. You add to it and you multiply it. You do that by using more of your own money and more of other people's money and more of your equity from one property to buy another property. But we've all got to begin with the end in mind, today's show is about your exit strategy, how to sell your property, whether it's selling all of them or some of them, and you're doing that in both a tax efficient way and a management efficient way, because it's about how to exchange them into a partnership. Still get financial upside for appreciation and cash flow, but yet you achieve about as much passivity as what you would have with a Schwab or say, Vanguard mutual fund. Now, back when GRE began, over 11 years ago, we wouldn't have done a show like this because most new listeners were in acquisition mode learning about the GRE way, and that might still be true, but today, we've got both new listeners and longtime listeners that have engaged with GRE investment coaches and learned from listening to each weekly episode, and have built their portfolios and have turned get rich education into got rich education. Congratulations. A lot of you have now achieved financial freedom, and you're looking for an eventual exit. Now, even if you own dozens of rental properties like I do, you don't feel much management strain most of the time, because also, like I do, you outsource to property managers, but some of you self manage, and you can then achieve real relief when you exit before we bring in our expert guest and discuss The 721 exchange. Hey, you've seen me write about the Iran war in our newsletter, and you've seen me discussing it on YouTube. The short story is that war is really expensive, war is inflationary, and war in Iran could very well be setting us up for another inflationary wave like we had from 2021 to 2023 I'm probably going to talk more about it next week, if the war is still ongoing, and what it means to real estate investors. Also a lot of great episodes coming up here at GRE including the show debut. Two of Redfin chief economist Darrell fairweather PhD, who will be here with us soon as for this week, let's learn about an efficient real estate exit strategy.   Keith Weinhold  5:17   This week's guest is someone that is going to help a lot of you, so I've really anticipated having him on educated at Harvard and Stanford. He went on to become a somewhat conventional investment manager, until he was motivated by his parents experience as Chicago landlords to launch another venture in 2021 which you'll learn about today. Welcome to GRE Ari Rubin   Ari Rubin  5:42   Keith, thank you so much for having me on the show today, and to all your listeners out there. It's great to meet all of you, and thanks for listening in today.    Keith Weinhold  5:49   Yeah, Rubin is spelled r, u, B, I N, yeah, I understand you've heard from some of our listeners   Speaker 2  5:55    exactly, I actually heard about your podcast and your show from a number of our clients will go more into the problem that we're solving and the types of landlords that we work with, but some of them have been listening you to you for a long time. Some of them got motivated to get into real estate because of your show. So yeah, really excited to be here chatting with you today.   Keith Weinhold  6:17   Well, thanks so much. Basically, what you do is you help people retire from landlording, but not real estate. We'll get more into that later. But a lot of times when investors have been in the direct real estate investing game for a while, they begin to feel like they've got their dollars trapped in this real estate game. And it can be easy to argue there's no other place you'd rather have it, but tell us more about that trapped feeling with managing rental properties.   Speaker 2  6:45   Yeah, So Keith, maybe just to start out, I want to just talk about the problem that we're solving at flock. So as everyone knows, and there's a lot of resources out there, real estate is a great place, a great way to build wealth, and it's a lot of work, and it takes a lot of effort and a lot of skill and a lot of time, but we find that not enough folks think about, once you get in, how do you exit? And just for those on the show who are listening, who aren't even in real estate yet, or maybe they're just a couple of years into real estate, you always want to think about your exit, and at a certain point, once you've owned real estate for five years, 10 years, 30 years, at some point in your life, you're going to want to exit, and that's because, at the end of the day, managing and owning Real Estate takes work. You can hire a property manager, but you still have to manage even the best property manager doesn't really solve all the problems of being a landlord. For example, if you have an eviction, you still have to pay for that. If you have a massive capital improvement, roofs to replace, HVACs to do, you're still on the hook for that. Ultimately, you're liable when you own real estate, right? You could be sued. You have a feeling, and you should be responsible for your residence and for the homes. So at the end of the day, at a certain point, every single person in this world will get to the point where they're like, I'm done owning real estate. I want to retire. I want true peace of mind. But the problem with that is, when you're ready to exit, you got to sell. That's really the only way out. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have some kids who want to take over the business or the properties, but you know, if you're like a lot of clients that we work with, your kids, maybe they're on to bigger and better things. They've moved across the country. Or, you know, this generation doesn't fix things like the last one did, right? And so unless you have kids who are really, really ready to step up and be super hands on, you don't have an exit and selling, of course, triggers a huge tax liability. So when you sell real estate, you not only have to maybe kick out your tenants and stage the house and pay all the frictions and all the fees, the biggest thing is you have to pay capital gains and depreciation or capture taxes. And we'll come back into what all that means and all how that looks like. So in summary, when you sell real estate and you've owned for a long time, you could be faced with losing upwards of 30% of your equity, which is a lot of money. That's a big chunk of your nest egg, of your net worth. You also you love real estate, you've done really, really well with real estate. So at flock, we've built the retirement solution for landlords, and we'll go more into how this all works, but essentially, we help people with the most cost efficient, seamless exit strategy by exchanging their equity for shares. In our larger fund. So that's just very quickly, the problem that we're solving and some of the clients, the problem that we work with   Keith Weinhold  10:08   this is important. I'm a longtime real estate investor. I have not self managed in many years, but I basically asset manage my managers oftentimes reading their monthly statements, replying to emails about various things, but yeah, there is some day in which I probably wish to not have to do that anymore, and indeed, selling it all would incur a steep capital gains tax. Now what I've done is I've done cash out refinances and 1031 exchanges along the way to continue to defer any tax obligation that I have. But of course, when I do a 1031, exchange, I grow my portfolio, and there's more to manage,   Speaker 2  10:50   exactly. So you know, you just laid out two excellent options out there for ways to sort of consolidate, or, you could say, even better, leverage your equity in real estate. You can do a cash out refi, and that's of course, where you pull cash out of the properties so you're more liquid, or you buy more real estate, or you can do something called a 1031 exchange. And Keith, I'm sure a lot of your listeners out there know what a 1031 exchange is, but just for everyone listening in in or in case folks are less familiar, a 1031 exchange is essentially a real estate loophole. It used to apply to artwork and airplanes and a lot of other stuff. Now it's just real estate, and it's a part of the tax code that says you can sell your real estate, and if you follow this process within a certain timeframe, and then use what's called a Qualified Intermediary, you can roll those proceeds forward and buy new real estate and defer that tax liability into the future. Now the benefit to that is you just achieve tax deferral, but as you said, you still own real estate, and so for a lot of younger investors out there, a 1031 exchange is a really effective way to continue to grow their portfolio, or be more thoughtful about their approach. But for longer time real estate investors, a 1031 exchange doesn't really solve your problem. You still own real estate, you're still liable for tenants, for toilets, for trash, right? And so if you're trying to really retire from being a landlord, a 1031 exchange doesn't really do that. And of course, a cash out refi, all that does is just take on more debt and more risk and more liability. Great option if you're young and you're still trying to grow when we hear from a lot of clients, maybe not the best option in the second half of your life as you're really trying to focus on wealth preservation.   Keith Weinhold  12:51   Yes, a lot of our listeners are indeed familiar with the 1031, tax deferred exchange. You're typically trading up and deferring your tax on the way. And that trading up, it really just gets you even more into real estate investing, because with almost every 1031 exchange, you're going to own more doors than when you began the process. However, a lot of people aren't as familiar with the 721 exchange. Why are people less familiar with it? Ari   Speaker 2  13:21   great question, Keith, and you're right, less people are familiar with it. So in plain English, the 721 exchange, it's also part of the tax code. It's not a real estate loophole. It actually applies to equities or many other asset classes. And in plain English, what it says is, Keith, you own, let's say a million dollars worth of assets you can exchange. You can contribute those assets into a partnership and receive back a million dollars worth of shares or units of the partnership. And in doing so, it's a tax deferred exchange. There are some nuances that you have to be mindful of, just like in a 1031 exchange in terms of boots and cash out refis, but as a general rule, it's a lot more flexible and a lot more seamless than a 1031 exchange. And so again, Keith, you sell, you exchange, you contribute your properties into a fund or into a partnership using the 721 exchange. You now own shares of that partnership. You get all the returns and cash flow and ongoing tax benefits from owning shares in the partnership. To your question, why do less people know about the 721 exchange? It's very common in large commercial real estate, big real estate investment trusts have been using the 721 exchange for decades. The problem with it is it's really complicated to do. So these transactions are quite laborious. There's lots of paperwork. Historically, you would need an army of lawyers and accountants and tax professionals just to consummate one of these things. Surely, if you had a $500 million apartment building or office complex, you would be familiar with this. But until now, no one had really built this for the little guy. And I'm putting that in quotes, right? Because, you know, if you own 10 single family rental homes, 50 single family rental homes, even one single family rental home, you could have hundreds of 1000s of dollars, millions of dollars of equity. You're not such a little guy or gal, right? But these are the moms and pops who own the vast majority of real estate in this country. And so our idea at floc was to go out and, for lack of a better term, democratize access, to give access to this really powerful wealth preservation tool, the 721 exchange, a mechanism that's been used by ultra high net worth families and big institutional investors and big Wall Street firms for decades, and really enable it to the masses out there, To the millions and millions of hardworking Americans who have built up these properties, these portfolios, for decades.   Keith Weinhold  16:27   I've got to say I had heard of the 721 exchange quite a long time ago, but it wasn't until last year that I became more familiar with it, and more familiar with what you do, and realizing that this could help an awful lot of people. You're listening to get rich education. We're talking with flock homes founder, Ari Rubin, about the 721 exchange, how it works and how it might be able to help you more when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,    Keith Weinhold  16:53   let me throw out a simple idea, sometimes doing nothing with your money is actually a decision. Leaving it parked. Might feel safe, but over time, purchasing power changes. So the conversation isn't about chasing returns, it's about intentionally placing money somewhere. Freedom. Family investments works in real estate people use every day, housing, senior communities, essential properties, things tied to living and not trends. Their freedom notes offering is built for accredited investors looking for structured income backed by real assets, not speculation. I am an investor with them myself. The Freedom team makes themselves available to walk through their approach, structure and operating philosophy so you can ask questions and determine alignment before moving forward, while past performance doesn't guarantee future results, their historical operating philosophy has yielded 100% investor payouts backed by over 20 years of experience. If you want clarity before making any moves. Book, a clarity call at Freedom family investments.com or text family to 66 866, text the word family to 66866   Keith Weinhold  18:15   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem, property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains, tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721 the residential real estate request your initial valuation. See if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g R, E.   Todd Drowlette  18:54   This is the star of the A and E show the real estate commission. Todd rollette. Listen to get rich education with my friend, Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. Welcome   Keith Weinhold  19:04   back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, here on episode 598 we're talking with flock homes founder, Ari Rubin, where they help real estate investors retire from landlording, but not so much real estate with a 721, exchange is something that can be used for retiring landlords along with active landlords if they're just looking to offload one or two properties to exchange into this partnership that we've been talking about. And Ari on your website. It was interesting. I watched the video of you and a woman where you somewhat had to convince the woman to start this fund that did not have any properties in it yet, which is really interesting. And before we're done, we'll talk about. How many properties you have in the portfolio and how many investors you have, but this is something that an investor can exchange their properties into, and yet they still receive the financial upside of both cash flow and appreciation. So tell us more about that    Speaker 2  20:16   exactly. So I'll just quickly explain how it all works. And I do want to also touch on our first client ever, our first landlord ever. Surely, everyone has their story of how they got started in real estate. But you know, for us, at the end of the day, it's a people business. You know, our clients are the millions and millions of mom and pop landlords out there. Shirley was a single mom, Navy vet physician, had this home that she used to live in. She knew she should be building wealth through real estate, so she held on to the property. It was the middle of covid. She had a long term tenant. The tenant moved out, and she didn't know what to do, and she got mailers every single day on, you know, oh, we'll buy ugly houses and we'll buy this thing, but she didn't want to sell because she knew she didn't want to sell. She wasn't a distressed seller, right? And when she sold, of course, she would be triggering taxes, and she knew real estate was a great asset class to be in, and she didn't want to give up all of that upside. So Shirley was our first client, and she still is with us today, very near and dear to our hearts. And yeah, you should check out the video online. It's an amazing story, and we have many, many stories like that, of families that we've worked with. So Keith, to your question of how it all works, exactly. So Keith or Shirley or Mom and Pop will sell their property. They'll exchange their property for the equivalent value of shares in our fund. So let's say it's a $300,000 house and there's no mortgage on it. We do take properties with a little bit of debt, but let's just say, for easy numbers, you sell the property and you now have $300,000 worth of shares in our fund. So first and foremost, you're no longer responsible or liable for the property. You don't own it anymore. You don't manage it anymore. The tenants, of course, the residents get to stay in the home. It is now one rental property of the many inside of our portfolio that the flock team manages. We collect the rent, we do all the renovations, we hold back for expenses, right? And you are now a fully passive shareholder in this larger partnership. So what does that mean for you? First and foremost, you did not trigger taxes on day one. You get to defer those taxes, just like you would in a 1031, exchange. And of course, you can hold on to it, pass it on to your heirs, who still get the step up in basis. Great. In addition to that, what does this mean that you own shares in this real estate? Well, you're going to get all the returns from the real estate just like you would with your own real estate. So what are the two things that drive returns? The first thing is your paper gains, right? Your equity appreciation. The market goes up in value. Our properties go up in value. You receive appreciation to your equity, to your account. By the way, sometimes markets go down in value. Real Estate doesn't just go up, right? And of course, as that happens as well, your equity account will go down as well. But we believe that over the long term, and if you look back at historical kind of performance of the real estate market, we really believe in single family as an asset class. So that's the first thing that drives your returns. It's the appreciation of the properties. And then, of course, the second thing is the net income. It's the rents that we collect from the properties, less the expenses, property tax, insurance, right, maintenance, vacancy, reserves, all of the regular expenses that you have. We also have, as a large institutional real estate owner, and so those two things together, one, the appreciation, as well as two, the net income drive your total returns from the flock vehicle. You could take cash flow from your investment just like you would from your real estate. We pay that out quarterly. It's never been late. We've been operating since 2021 you know, we have a lot of clients who leave their cash flow in to reinvest it and kind of increase their basis. We have a lot of clients who live on their cash flow like they would Social Security or a pension or something like that, just like they did in their real estate portfolio.   Keith Weinhold  24:44   Now, people sometimes get sentimental about their own home, less sentimental about the rental properties, but if you have any attachment to it, effectively, when you exchange it into this fund, you're still helping get some return from your own. Own properties that you contributed into the fund there, but you're going to be more diversified effectively nationally with the real estate market then   Speaker 2  25:08    exactly. And Keith, you bring up a really great point, which is a lot of our clients and a lot of real estate investors, they're sentimental about their real estate investments, like these are houses that they used to live in, or they built, or they've had the same residents in place for 515, 25, years. I mean, we've literally seen people who have had the same residents in place for a very, very long time, and they have that sentimental attachment. And our clients see one of the benefits to joining flock is they're joining together with other like minded owners to leverage the benefits of scale. They still own that house, but they own it with a bunch of other you know, we now have 1100 homes. We'll soon hit 1500 homes, right? They have some connection to that house, but they're much larger, which means better margins. They're much more diversified. So if, God forbid, something happens that one individual property, their risk is spread out. And of course, you know, they're more passive. They're no longer liable, so on and so forth. So a lot of people really like flock because of that sort of sentimental attachment they have to their real estate. By the way, we also have a lot of people who bought their turnkey providers, or they're just, you know, a business guy or a business gal, and they don't care at all, and they're just like, I don't even know the addresses on these things. Just take this and move on. So we've met and interacted with lots of different types of landlords over the years,   Keith Weinhold  26:43   I'm a turnkey real estate investor. I have not seen most of my properties in person, so there's certainly no sentimental attachment to them. But let's talk more about how it practically works and feels for that investor that say they want to sell three rental, single family homes that total $1 million in value, whether that's their entire portfolio or those three properties are just part of it, would flack do an inspection and then handle the renovations and make an offer   Ari Rubin  27:12   exactly so before I walk you through the process, I want to also just lay out what our incentives Are. We're very different than most real estate buyers. We're not trying to flip houses. We're not a flipper. That's not our business model. That's not how we make money. Our goal is not to buy your houses. You know, in the example, you said three houses worth about a million dollars. Our goal is not to buy them for 900 and flip them and make a quick buck, right? Our goal is to solve this problem for you, to bring you into flock as a client, to of course, then provide you with good financial returns, which means providing the resident with good service, bringing the home up to our standards, hardening the asset and making sure it's a great place to live, and it performs as underwritten. And so what all that means is upfront, we'll give you an initial valuation based on public data, other proprietary data that we have. We'll ask you a couple of questions about the house, and then before we close, we do inspect the property, and after the inspection, our final valuation will either go down in value, if not everything was represented, as you said, or it'll go up in value after inspection, our goal is 50% of the time to increase the value. Okay, which in real estate is kind of a weird concept, because which buyer wants to pay more money? Well, our goal is not to buy low from you, it's to create a fair system for all the clients that have put their properties into flock, right? So we'll then come up with a final valuation. Let's just say, like in your example, a million dollars for those three properties. We then sign what's called a contribution agreement. And by the way, during that period, you're doing due diligence on us. You're getting to know our team. You know people are entrusting us with a lot of money, their real estate, that they've worked, that they know. They know these residents, they know the every corner of that house. So we need to due diligence your real estate, you need to due diligence us, our team, our processes, our systems, our track record, the types of homes that we own. We'll show you every home that we own. We'll walk you through our financials. We get audit. We use a third party fund administrator. We get audited by KPMG every year to make sure our valuations, we use best in class service providers. You'll go through all this information. We do the same. That process typically takes about three to six weeks, and then you come to a decision, Hey, I like flock. I want to move forward. We come to a decision. We like that home. We want to bring it into our fund. It meets our threshold. It's going to be a good investment for all of our investors, all of our clients, in flock. And then we would move forward together that whole process about four to six weeks, and then closing takes about 15 days or so.   Keith Weinhold  30:17   Okay, yeah, it's really important that you offer that renovation and that you take care of that there, I was relieved when I found that out, because really, that's the problem that you're looking to solve to get landlords out of that entire process. And they sure don't want to have to manage another wave of that during their exchange into the fund, and yeah, they want it to be hands off and mostly passive, and therefore have their homes in their flock fund be just about as passive as managing a mutual fund would   Ari Rubin  30:47   be exactly. And that's how we want our clients to think about it. You know, we've seen some folks try to do the renovations on their own. You can do it. We never recommend it, and oftentimes it's more work and more hassle than it's really worth another big thing is, if there's a resident in place, number one for you, kicking out a resident is not a nice thing to do. It's also a drag on your financials. That's several months of no income, right? That you could be earning income, whether it's through flock or elsewhere, and you have expenses, you have insurance, your property taxes during that period. So yeah, we'll take on the whole renovation if required. It's worth adding, by the way, we don't take every property we walk away from, way more properties than we accept. Yeah, you have the buy box. We have a Buy Box, which I'll tell you guys more about. But in addition to having a Buy Box, if a property requires extensive foundation issues or extensive renovations. That's beyond our scope, really, if there's a lot of uncertainty in it, we don't want to be subjecting all of our existing clients to that risk. You know, our view is we never compromise on price, on quality, on risk, and so we don't touch, you know, really messy, really hairy stuff, but we aren't afraid of, you know, rolling up our sleeves, and we'll typically do renovations up to 30% of the value of the home. So we do do a lot of value add work. Some of that is on day one. If it's health and safety and the resident needs certain things, we'll do that on day one. Other things are more value add once the resident decides to leave at some point in the future.   Keith Weinhold  32:23   Well, I'm so glad you brought up earlier about taking care of the tenant, because one of our core missions here at GRE is to do good in the world, provide housing that's clean, safe, affordable and functional. So when it comes to the ongoing property management, I imagine that plays into your Buy Box, where you're only going to have property managers in so many markets, exactly.   Speaker 2  32:45   So we're in about 20 markets around the country. It's kind of a combination of higher yielding markets. These are more like Midwestern markets, Ohio, Michigan, where Memphis, where Baton Rouge. We're also in what I would call more like growth markets, certain markets in Texas where you see really strong net migration right yields are a little bit lower there Denver is similarly as a market where you see a little bit lower yields, but still really positive job growth and economic tailwinds to those markets. We're in about 20 markets. We're open to opening new markets if there's a right kind of partnership and a right strategic portfolio or acquisition or client there. But yeah, we don't take every home, you know. We don't do short term rentals. We really just focus on our bread and butter. What we know how to do, which is one to four unit long term rental properties.    Keith Weinhold  33:39   Well, tell us more about that Buy Box.   Ari Rubin  33:43   So typically, again, we're in about 20 markets or so, also looking to expand. We take single family homes, duplexes, triplexes and fourplexes. We'll look at some condos, but as you know, some HOAs are a little bit too restrictive, and so we just try to stay away from that uncertainty, and then we have a certain yield profile and sort of price range that we're looking to hit. So in every market that differs, in Denver, we wouldn't take over. I think it's a $650,000 home, because once you start getting into the higher which in Denver is actually the median home price is a lot higher in Denver than the national average. Right? In other markets, our average price point, we're in Raleigh and around Raleigh, our average price point in Raleigh is much lower than that. So I'd say on average, our average price point per unit or per door is about $220,000 but yeah, one to four units, we unfortunately don't take pools. Yeah, we don't take properties with pools because of some insurance risks, although we have worked with some owners to bury pools, and it needs to be in a market, just lastly, where we can price it. So if it's a, you know, we're in Denver. That was where we started the business. That's where our headquarters is. You know, if there's a property an hour and two. 20 minutes outside of Denver, kind of in the middle of nowhere on four acres with it's just hard to price that. And so even if we can operate it, we need to make sure we can price it both upfront and then on an ongoing basis. So that's a little bit more about our Buy Box. But if you want to learn more, if you have a larger portfolio, of course, reach out to us. Well, you probably mentioned this, Keith, but it's flatcombs.com/gre, and we'll take a look at your property or your portfolio.   Keith Weinhold  35:29   This can help you retire from landlording, but not real estate. Make it completely hands off for you, but still get financial upside in the form of cash flow and appreciation while getting that tax deferral. And you can effectively make this tax free if these shares are inherited by your heirs with that step up in basis. And you can avoid the capital gains tax, which is typically 15 to 20% depending on your income. And if you have a high income, there's a net investment income tax of 3.8% on top of that, you also had the depreciation recapture to repay if you just sell your property out on the open market, but a 721 exchange prevents you from having to pay for any of that. So you're really solving a terrific problem for people here, Ari and just a great exit strategy for those that want to retire from real estate investing or maybe just sell a smaller portion some problem properties. You have any last thoughts overall about the 721 exchange and how you're helping people with their exit strategy?   Ari Rubin  36:36   Ari, this is like the best kept secret in real estate at the 721 exchange, we're now expanding it to multifamily. Eventually, we want to be doing this for every real estate asset class. I've heard of folks doing this for self storage. One day, we want to do this for gas stations, for small hotels. And really do this across all real estate asset classes. We think the one to four unit space is the most exciting, by far, the largest opportunity, and also the biggest opportunity to really create value for communities and for residents, which is something we're really, really passionate about. And so yeah, I would love to hear from you all. And Keith, thanks again for having me on today. This has been a great show, and I'm a big fan of your listeners and everything you guys are doing here.   Keith Weinhold  37:21   Any savvy investor has to begin with, the end in mind, Ari had a convenient landing page put up to welcome a GRE, listeners again at flockhomes.com/gre this has been valuable, Ari. It's been great having you here.    Ari Rubin  37:36   Keith. Thank you so much. You   Keith Weinhold  37:44   Oh, this has been really informative from Ari Rubin today on an efficient exit strategy that a lot of real estate investors don't know much about, retiring from landlording and yet not retiring from real estate, you're staying in the game, and yet, what you're doing is trading away active management in order to get passive ownership. And it makes sense that they make it hands off and kind of a turnkey exit experience for you. They're not using that term, but I am. If you're looking to retire, you sure don't want to be the one that has to first jump more hurdles at the end and handle an inspection punch list and coordinate with contractors, so they're helping a lot of people, and they seem to be on a good trajectory for success. You know, really, as you're still building your portfolio while you're still in acquisition mode, it's kind of comforting to know that this is out there is an option. It kind of motivates you to want to build your portfolio more now that you know about other options at the end, even if a 721, exchange, time is decades away for you, I don't know if you caught that, they have 1100 homes in their portfolio. Now, as you see over on that landing page that I mentioned, they even simplify your tax filing. You just receive one consolidated annual tax packet prepared by KPMG. If you think it's interesting to you or you just want to learn more about the 721 exchange or get a free evaluation, you can do that again by starting@flockhomes.com slash GRE that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g R, E, until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  39:39   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  39:58   The preceding program was brought to you by y  

Robin Trower talks about two live albums released from very different periods of his career.We talk about the newly expanded and remixed Robin Trower Live! from 1976, and the superb new One Moment In Time: Live In The USA, recorded on his 2025 tour.Robin also discusses:how he chooses the best live performanceswhy the power trio format still works so wellhow he keeps classic songs like Daydream and Too Rolling Stoned freshhis guitar setup, amps, effects and string choiceshow he practices and stays mentally and physically fit for touringwhat music he still listens to for inspirationand a hint at what may be coming next in the reissue campaignA really insightful and inspiring chat with one of the most distinctive guitarists in rock.If you enjoy this interview, please like, subscribe and share — and visit nowspinning.co.uk for more reviews, features and interviews.

What if the answers you've been searching for are already inside you… waiting to be discovered while you sleep?In this episode of Seeking Center, we're joined by Bonnie Buckner, PhD, author of The Secret Mind: Unlock the Power of Your Dreams to Transform Your Life. Bonnie is the founder of the International Institute for Dreaming and Imagery and has spent decades helping people access the powerful guidance hidden within their dreams.According to Bonnie, dreaming isn't random—and it isn't just symbolic. Our dreams are a doorway into what she calls the “secret mind,” the deeper part of ourselves that already knows how to solve problems, spark creativity, and guide us toward our purpose.In this fascinating conversation, we explore how dreams can help us better understand ourselves, unlock new ideas, and even transform the way we move through life.If you've ever woken up from a vivid dream and wondered what that was all about, this episode may change the way you look at dreaming forever.IN THIS EPISODE WE EXPLORE:What the “Secret Mind” really is: The deeper intelligence inside us that communicates through dreams.Why dreams aren't random: How neuroscience, psychology, and ancient traditions all point to the transformative power of dreaming.How dreams can solve problems and spark creativityWhat recurring dreams might be trying to tell youHow to start remembering and working with your dreamsWhy imagination plays a powerful role in becoming who you're meant to beA QUESTION TO REFLECT ONBefore you go to sleep tonight, ask yourself: “What might my dreams be trying to tell me?” You may be surprised by what shows up.ABOUT BONNIE BUCKNER PhDBonnie Buckner, PhD is the founder and CEO of the International Institute for Dreaming and Imagery and the author of The Secret Mind. She has spent decades researching the science and psychology of dreaming and helping people harness their dreams as a tool for creativity, personal insight, and transformation.Her work blends neurobiology, social psychology, and ancient wisdom traditions to show how dreams can guide us toward our fullest potential.Visit bonniebuckner.com to find out more about Bonnie's offerings, her book The Secret Mind: Unlock the Power of Dreams to Transform Your Life, the Institute and more.  Visit seekingcentercommunity.com for more with Robyn + Karen and many of the guides on Seeking Center: The Podcast. You'll get access to live weekly sessions, intuitive guidance, daily inspiration, and a space to share your journey with like-minded people who just get it. You can also follow Seeking Center on Instagram @theseekingcenter.

Keith sits down with the youngest guest in show history—a 19-year-old college sophomore and student-athlete who's already deeply immersed in real estate and economics, Hunter Taddy. You'll hear a candid Gen Z perspective on money, debt, and the shifting social landscape, along with what's really being taught in today's real estate and econ classrooms.  They explore how young people are navigating college costs, work, and early investing decisions, and how hands-on property management education is shaping one student's path.  If you're curious about where the next generation of investors is headed—and what that might mean for your own strategy—this conversation offers a rare, on-the-ground look without the usual clichés. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/597 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold talking with a 19 year old guest that I befriended last year. He's a college sophomore with a real estate investing related major. What does he think about generation Z's future is in person, social life, dead. And what do you really learn about real estate and economics in college today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android. Listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast, sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:11   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 1  1:44   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:00   Welcome to GRE from Concord, New Hampshire to Concord, California and across 188 nations worldwide, you're listening to one of America's longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Increasingly, you know, people ask why even go to college? Is the value of higher education even worth it to drag yourself to an 8am American Lit class while living off of dining hall Breakfast Biscuits and chicken strips for $100,000 a year, it's been estimated that one in seven men are meats, n, e, e, t, that means not in education, employed or training. Why put on a suit and tie and show up at a job when you have a reasonable facsimile of life online and you have discord and Reddit and trade stocks on Robinhood and crypto on Coinbase. Now I don't think that's going to be good for you, and I still think that there are a lot of positives about attending college. At least 15 to 20 colleges close each year in the United States. And despite this, you know, most people that I talk to, they still seem to be mostly positive about college, or they have this expectation that their kids go to college. So anecdotally, this hasn't changed. I probably wouldn't even be as aware of this shift if I didn't read media like I do, if I just talked to people informally, I really wouldn't know. One thing that has not changed also is the notion of the broke college student. I used to be one of those. Now America is just a couple years removed from that wave of elevated inflation and war in Iran has positioned to stoke a second wave of inflation. Today's guest told me that he does pay credit card finance charges, even though he makes more than the minimum payment, just kind of like I did as a college student. The default state of teenage society today is different. It used to be boredom, and now that's been replaced with anxiety. That part has certainly changed, and often it tends to be teen anxiety over such nonsense things. I mean, I have a teenage niece. One example is the burden of maintaining your Snapchat streak? Oh my gosh, if you're a Gen Z or you know what I'm talking about, basically a snap streak where you've got to send a friend a photo or video every single day to keep your streak going, two people have to send it to each other, and people with long streaks, they even like send each other a photo of the floor, just. To keep the streak going. I mean, talk about anxiety over the wrong things.    Keith Weinhold  5:04   Well, today's team guest Hunter, he has a somewhat better grip on life. I haven't met his parents yet, but they've done an amazing job. In fact, Hunter's dad owns rental property, which kind of helps to fuel some of his interests and desire. But in order to cope with inflation and expenses, buy now pay later programs have really taken off. They're widely known, but less widely known. Our rent now pay later plans. They're booming. Platforms like livable, flex and affirm. They're used by lower income and lower credit score tenants that often live paycheck to paycheck. And how it works is that these tenants are extended money at the beginning of the month to pay the rent. They often pay a flat subscription fee plus 1% of the rent. And you know, hey, that could be better than the tenant paying late fees to the landlord. I learned from one tenant that had trouble paying his $1,850 in rent that flex charged him a $15 monthly subscription plus 1% of the total rent for providing the service. So his total fees for the app were around $33 a month rent. Now pay later. You're probably only going to hear more about it, but if you're a landlord, you probably do not know that your tenant is using a rent now, pay later plan, because you just received the full payment on time, and then your tenant pays back the service later. Remember, it is called rent. Now, pay later. Oh, before we bring in our guest, can I ask you for some quick help? Maybe you wanted to tell me what you think about the show. You could have been listening for years, but you don't think that you can reach me. If this show has helped you become a better investor, the best way to support the podcast is to leave a quick rating or review. It helps more investors discover the show. Just tap the five stars in your podcast app. It can take as little as 10 seconds, and I will read it myself. Thanks in advance for leaving a rating and review. Let's meet this week's guest.   Keith Weinhold  7:22   This week's guest is the youngest we've ever had in show history. He's a teenager, so he's about a generation younger than me, and it's his first time on a podcast. He is a sophomore student athlete at the University of Alaska Anchorage, where he competes in the 800 meters for the track and field team. He runs about a 155 his major is management, with a specialization in real estate and property management, and he's just into so many things beyond athletics and academics, he serves as an ambassador for the Widener property management and real estate program. He's also an officer of the real estate management and investment club from Wisconsin. He's 19 years old, a straight A student. He's also an RA that's a Resident Assistant there helping out students at the dorms. Welcome to GRE Hunter, toddy.    Hunter Taddy  8:18   Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.   Keith Weinhold  8:20   Taddy is spelled T, A, D, D, Y. I met Hunter almost six months ago. A property manager introduced us just thinking that we might have some things in common, and she sure was right. We've gotten together a few times, including going running at one time where, well, I had more than a little trouble keeping up with an active college athlete. The last time we sat down for coffee, just last week, I looked at my watch. We were done, and we sat almost two and a half hours like how many teenagers could really hold my attention for that long? But he just understands the world and politics surprisingly well. For a 19 year old. He's confident and well thought out. He's read War and Peace. He even got some of his own cooking and avoids seed oils. And you know, Hunter being born in 2006 when GRE debuted in 2014 you were eight years old. So before we talk about you, let's talk about your generation, generation Z What do you think some of the markers of your generation are?   Keith Weinhold  9:28   Yeah, so it's as I've shared with you in the past. It's interesting, because especially at UA, I'm mostly surrounded by like, athletes. So athletes tend to be a lot more social, just like how they grown up, they're always around people that tend to be a lot more driven. But then when I talk to, like, non athletes, it's a little bit different. Like, my generation is definitely they're on their phone a lot. I mean, I've told you before, like, I avoid social media. Well, I wouldn't say like the flag, but I avoid it a lot, because I know, hey, how addicting it is. And B, just like, you know, the.The word of my generation is slop or brain rot, and which is most of the stuff on the internet, but Yeah, seems to be like, there's a lot of anxiety in my generation, a lot of, like, lack of accountability, which I've noticed a lot lot of, like, lack of responsibility. And it's almost like self indulgent in a way, where it's like, oh I'm so lazy, or Oh, I'm so this, or I'm so that, and it's just kind of weird. You don't really get that much with like the athletes. Back to the social aspect. I don't know if you've seen that headline recently, that's like, the alcohol industry has lost eight, $30 million over the past four years because he doesn't drink. The real story isn't about Gen Z not wanting to drink alcohol. It's about Gen Z, not like really being social, right? I mean, I don't see that many like, Hangouts as much as, like, when I hear from, like my parents, you know, every night you're going somewhere with your friends or your you know, you're going to the bar, you're going to a bonfire, or things like that. And it's just, you don't see it as much. A lot of people are just in their rooms or online and, you know, the online gaming, online gaming, I don't game a lot, but gaming with friends is actually really fun to do sometimes. But everything's a lot more digital, you know, from the communication to like the spaces, you know, where you hang out, whether it's video games or whether it's VR chat, and some people do that, or discord, or just like internet forums and things like that. Yeah, just lot more digital.    Keith Weinhold  11:24   Yeah, you use little or no social media. Personally, I know you manage the Instagram page for your real estate organization, but yeah, there is more of this perception of in person, social life, maybe not dead, but dying. I've learned that 51% of 18 to 24 year old men have never asked out a woman in person you were sharing with me at how you know people have anxiety just about ordering food in person at a restaurant in Gen Z.    Hunter Taddy  11:54   That's actually funny. So because of how that conversation escalated, I technically did ask her out in Snapchat, but then she was like, you have to ask me out in person. And then I did eventually ask her out in person.    Keith Weinhold  12:06   Now, when it comes to in person meetings, after a few meetings with you, I noticed something rare when it's about seeing people in person, you have virtues that I think are somewhat rare for Generation Z. I mean, you actually show up on time. This this chat we're having right now. It's the fourth time we've gotten together, and you actually showed up early each of the four times, which is something that I really notice and appreciate, which, even for people my age, it seems like it's a virtue that they've lost. I mean, showing up on time is just common decency. That's just doing what you said that you were going to do. I find that pretty interesting. But when it comes to your generation being in college now, I mean, college is tough. You know, when I went to college, I took on student loans. My parents and I each paid for half of the tuition, and also worked a part time job while I was there. So I mean, you hang out with a lot of athletes, but how is it with balancing, you know, the income and student loans? Because, you know, college kids are still pretty poor   Hunter Taddy  13:10   I wanted to run for a division two program, because you can get athletic scholarship. I came in as a walk on. I'm not on any athletic scholarship. I get free housing and free meals for being an RA. Yeah, with my RA position, I actually got the RA position my second semester. So I got it as a freshman, which was like, really, really clutch. So my dad was in the Air Force for 20 years, and I got the GI bill for like, I think, six months. So I got my two first semesters of tuition paid for, and then I got some, like, some money for, like, housing and stuff. I mean, I pocketed most of that just because, I mean, I got it for free already. I don't get any more help from the GI Bill, because I'm not in Wisconsin. But if I went to Wisconsin, I could go to any school for free, like, tuition free. So, I mean, sometimes I do think about that, but with my real estate program. I mean, oh my gosh, the scholarship deadline. Every year they give out like, $50,000 in scholarships. A lot of them are from Widener and then just other like local real estate companies in the area. Last year, I got a $2,500 scholarship to travel to the National Apartment Association's apartmentalized It's like, their yearly conference in Las Vegas, and that was pretty cool. So that stuff kind of went over my head, but a lot of the stuff about AI was, like, just really interesting to hear, especially just about property management. And it's crazy to me, because, like, AI is almost like, my generation's thing, since we're, like, growing up with it, yeah. And then hearing, like, a lot of like, the older people in the property management profession talk about, I mean, they're still talking about when they had to keep their records on pen and paper, or, like, files and stuff. And I'm like, This is crazy. So I have scholarships with the real estate program, if I'm lucky, I can get up to almost $10,000 after the spring. It's.That means I pay in state tuition because I live on campus. It was a deal they were running after covid. So that's only like $5,700 I mean, my scholarships will be able to cover that. This semester, I paid like 2000 of it or something, and then my parents were kind enough to cover the rest, and then I'm going to pay them back right away after the year ends once I get those scholarships. And then, yeah, I get $11 an hour for working desk at my RA job. It's tax free, so, I mean, it's not totally bad, but I don't working desk hours that much because we only have them at night. And then, you know, being an athlete, I don't like staying up until, you know, one o'clock sometimes. I mean, the other night, I had to work a nine to three desk shift, and that screwed my whole for an entire week. Yeah. Okay,    Keith Weinhold  15:48   so when you graduate college in a few years, you could very well come out with a lower student loan balance than a lot of others did, although you might still have an informal loan with dad in there as well. How do you and a lot of people of your generation see your financial future? They sure can be hard to predict, but a lot of people see this crushing debt with student loans, and I wonder, even though it could be far into the future if really Gen Z thinks that they're ever going to be able to afford a home. Now, when it comes to the student loans, I know I shared with you when we sat down for coffee that I had a balance. I think it was like a $20,000 balance when I graduated, because again, my parents paid half of it and I worked part time when I went to school, I shared with you that I just took that balance and paid very little interest on my student loan balance because I kept transferring it repeatedly onto these 0% APR credit cards, and when my introductory rate expired on one card, I would just transfer it onto another card. So I've long been comfortable with debt.    Hunter Taddy  16:52   So me, personally, I do not want to take out a loan from any entity. I'm very fortunate and privileged that my parents are able to, you know, front that money for me when I need it. When I need it, I try to pay them back right away. I do not want student loans like my goal is to get out of college, you know, without owing anybody any money. It's weird, because I'm from such a small town in Wisconsin, and I view trades a lot differently than, like a lot of my peers who grew up in the big cities, I know blue collar millionaires, right? People who just, you know, put their nose to the grindstone, pouring concrete. You know, working driving a semi. Only do that for maybe five or 10 years, like my cousins. My cousin pours concrete, and then the other one, I think, works for construction company, the Midwestern work ethic, they're sitting on 10s of 1000s of dollars in their savings account right now. You can make the argument. Well, their back is going to give out in a couple years. And some of that's true. But also, you know, you don't have to be the guy pouring concrete for how long. You could be the business owner, or you could be the guy who's the plumber for 510, years, and then, you know, start your own plumbing business. That's why I don't look at student loans as, like, I need this college degree to, like, make money or be successful. Like, I've met a lot of people who legitimately have that mindset. That's like, I understand that if you've grown up in that sort of, like sphere, you've grown up with those ideas. But to me, it's like, I know if I can't pay for college, or if I don't graduate college, I know I'm going to be fine. I could go, you know, work construction, or I could go, you know, mow lawns or something. I know, I guess I just view it differently. But a lot of people think they need those student loans. So, I mean, they sign up for them. And I looked it up the other day, the average time to pay off student loans is, like, 20 years or something like that. Yeah, I believe it. That is kind of sad. That's insane to me. I want my lawyers going to college. I want my doctors going to college. I want to college. I want all these people to have a good education. But I mean, like 100,000 to $200,000 I just see that, and it's like, oh, I don't know, man, I sign up for the fast flow every year, but I never get anything Free Application for Federal Student Aid, yeah, but I know some people get, like, Pell Grants. If I'm not wrong, I think the Pell Grants are just, I don't know they have to pay those back. It seemed like I was applying for the Stafford Loan. I was lower middle class. I don't think we quite qualified for the Pell grant. The grant being like, free money and a loan of stuff that you need to pay back. Yeah, of course. And of course, in addition to student loans, we regularly have students using credit cards and probably not being able to pay the full balance, is they make their way and try to pay their way through college. That's certainly one thing that I did.    Hunter Taddy  19:28   Here's something for you, DoorDash, my generation and DoorDash is so crazy. I mean, I look at some of these people we have like a desk, at some of the halls, and the amount of people who just DoorDash some of these people are doordashing every night. And that's not cheap, like, that's sometimes it's like 30 bucks just to get Taco Bell or, you know, Wingstop or something like that, and then Klarna, it's like, finance a pizza. Like, what are we doing here?    Keith Weinhold  19:54   Sure, yeah, you're making a down payment on a blooming onion and financing it and making the last payment on it. Years later or something. Yeah, crazy like that, 100% and yeah, I would imagine home ownership is just seen as something that's so far into the future, it's almost unfathomable.    Hunter Taddy  20:12   Yeah, it's funny to me, because, you know, I come from, again, very small town, the cost of living is, like, extremely low compared to the country. I'm pretty sure Green Bay was voted number one place to live by us, News and World Report couple years ago, number one place to live in the United States. But more of the people back home who work these jobs in the trades, like the thought of owning a home seems a lot more real to them than my friends who are in college. And a lot of that has to do with, you know, like we're in bigger cities. Again, people have more debt, but yeah, I mean, you look at those prices of homes, I think the median home price in Anchorage is like $426,000 and just, you know, looking at that numbers like, how am I ever going to afford that? One of my friends, he's in the real estate program. He's got $40,000 saved up. He's got his Roth IRA maxed out. It's weird, because this is one of the points I want to make. So in my generation, you have people who have all these resources, you know, especially with the internet, and they're doing very well with it. They're taking it and they're running with it. And then you have the other part of my generation who's doing the buy now, pay later option. It's almost like a upside down bell curve or something like that. The people who are good are getting so much better, and the people who are making the bad decisions are getting so much more worse.    Keith Weinhold  21:25   Ah, the K shaped economy starts young.   Hunter Taddy  21:27    It's just interesting to see sometimes, because you have some people like, I can't afford this, I can't afford that, and it's like, yeah, being college student is hard. But then it's like, you buy your $6 coffee every day, and it's, you know, I'm guilty of that too. My spending habits aren't the best. And then you look at like home ownership inflation is real. Cost of living is getting higher. But also my dad talks about this a lot like our standards are getting so much higher, too great. Our houses are getting bigger. Kids don't share bedrooms anymore. All our kids have to have our phone. All our kids have to have the newest thing or the newest coat. And you know, you want nice things for your family. I get that, you know, I don't have a family, so I can only talk about this so much. But I mean, our standards are getting a lot, a lot higher as well. I mean, you look at our grandparents houses, and they're like, these, just small, one story houses, one bathroom. You know, I look at the house that my dad grew up and he shared a room with his brother until he graduated, right? And then you look at all these families kids live in their bedroom, it's so weird to me that like siblings, they know each other, but they don't know each other because they're sitting in their rooms all day and they're looking at their phones.    Keith Weinhold  22:31   You surface a good and salient point hunter that a lot of people don't bring up because the K shaped economy that means a widening disparity between the haves and the have nots, but the entire K also keeps moving up, so standards of living continue to get better for both the haves and the have nots, even though the disparity between them continues to widen, and yes, a poor person today has Wi Fi and has Air Conditioning and a lot of minor conveniences that poor people didn't have 75 years ago. You're listening to get rich education. We're doing something different this week, talking to the youngest guest in GRE history. His name's Hunter toddy. We're going to talk more when we come back about what he's learning in classes, economics and real estate classes, because that is one thing that college students do. Remember, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.    Keith Weinhold  23:24   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g.R, E,    Keith Weinhold  24:00   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program, why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre,or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Robert Kiyosaki  25:12   this is our rich dad. Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold don't quit your daydream   Keith Weinhold  25:26   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith winehill, we're talking with Gen Z and student athlete Hunter toddy. He's a sophomore college student, and he's got a management degree with a concentration in real estate investing. So yeah, Hunter, tell us some of the things that you've learned about in an economics class or two that you've taken there at UAA.    Hunter Taddy  25:51   So I had an economics class last semester, but the teacher is basically tenured, and he only posted YouTube videos and like three quizzes was like the entire grade. He made us great at 2000 wasn't gonna say and didn't even grade it. So I didn't learn anything about economics, but that was macro, and now I'm in micro. And this professor, he's fantastic. He talks to Anchorage and Alaska legislators all the time. He was on Meet the Press Like he's very, very, very, very smart and well spoken, one of my and professors, and he's also Yale educated, as I understand. Yeah, I always get crap from my cross country teammates because most of them are STEM majors. There's a lot of engineers, and then there's, you know, you have people who are in, like, kinesiology, and then a lot of aviation, but they always give me crap because, like, oh, business, it's supply and demand, blah, blah, blah. But then, like, legitimately, economics has been so fascinating for me, just like, you know, consumer behavior, opportunity cost, trade off. One of the things is rent control, right? Definitely a big conversation, especially in, like, my generation, you know, because of all these rising prices. And then, you know, the landlord always gets the negative connotation, right? Landlords are greedy. I wouldn't even as a college student. Well, you think about rent control is like as soon as you put that binding price ceiling on the rent prices in an area, that's why there's not enough housing on the West Coast. That's why landlords are painting over the light switches, or they're not fixing your toilet, or they're not fixing the leaky sink. There's just a lack of understanding general society about, like, just how markets work and why. You know, businesses make certain decisions that they do. That's one thing with, like, a lot of my generation, is a lot of them are almost anti business, in a sense, right? In a sense, but they love being consumers. What my dad talks about a lot is as the business owner, like when you work for a company, a lot of the times you can clock in, clock out, you go home and you lay your head on the pillow, and you don't have to worry about anything, right? But when you're the business owner, like my dad, and if you have a lot of anxiety, like he does, about certain things, and you stress a lot, you're up at 2am wondering if the LVP you put in someone's kitchen is going to buckle, well, then you're gonna have to go back and fix it all and all these things, and so I definitely have a lot more to say understanding for like business owners and like landlords. Yeah, the economics classes just broaden my understanding of how the world works. I think that's a class everyone should take, and it is a general ed but I think it's a class everyone should pay attention to as well.    Keith Weinhold  28:18   Sure, rent control gives landlords no incentive to make improvements to a property. So yeah, it's good that you're learning about this in econ class. Tell us about some of the other things that you've learned in economics or in your more real estate investor centric college courses.    Hunter Taddy  28:36   So I'll focus more on the real estate stuff. So Dean Widener, Widener apartment homes, one of the top five, I think, largest owners of apartment homes in terms of units like in the United States, right? He basically came to Anchorage, and he wanted to build the Widener program, basically like a farm for property managers, like, you know, give this education. And then they, you know, they come work for widener. They come work for, you know, whoever a lot of the education has to do with property management. So there's leasing, asset maintenance. Talk a lot about operating budgets, risk management. All students in the program memorize the cash flow performer by heart. So, you know, you have gross potential income loss to lease, vacancy, net revenue, other income, expense reimbursements. Maddie poo, which is maintenance, admin, taxes, insurance, payroll and utilities. Have you heard that acronym before? What is it? Yeah. Maddie poo, I pretty sure my professor, like, that's kind of like his thing. I didn't finish it all, but we have it all memorized, and then we do, like, a lot of fair housing and landlord tenant law. Yesterday, in my Real Estate Investment Finance course, we were analyzing loans, and we were making like amortization tables, yeah. And then so we were looking at like interest rates, how a balloon loan works, variable interest rates. I took real estate Maintenance and risk last semester, and that was really awesome. We got to visit buildings all across Anchorage and talk with the property managers, talk about maintenance systems, general maintenance of the property, property management, the day to day, things like that. And then leasing, we actually had us basically go undercover. We have to have three properties, and we go do a showing at all of them, and then we had to review them, and we did a presentation about them, and, like, we basically reviewed them and graded, like the leasing agent, and how they did that one was really cool.    Keith Weinhold  30:33   Okay, so the mock tenant, grading a leasing agent, yeah, then showing you amenities, explaining lease length, things like that,    Hunter Taddy  30:41   and then seeing if, you know, they violated any like Fair Housing things. He said, Don't necessarily try and bait them, but one of the questions that one of my classmates asked, so what kind of people live here? And then the good property manager, you know, it says we rent to anyone that fits our criteria. And then you have some people that's like, oh, you should have said that. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty touchy, age, race, family status, right? Yeah. So we definitely have that drilled in our heads as well, like landlord tenant law and then, like, fair housing, you    Keith Weinhold  31:11   told me something interesting when we got together, when you run the numbers for property, that the numbers always work better in one condition than they do in another.    Hunter Taddy  31:20   So we do cap rate. And so cap rate is noi over value, I believe, yep. So we analyze the cap rates for all the properties, and then we see what is our return if we pay cash or whatever is our return when we pay leverage. And sometimes it's better if you pay cash, or sometimes it's better if it's leveraged. But I always think even if you could pay cash, you pay, say, $3 million for the whole complex, well, you could put a $500,000 down payment on six other properties. So I always thought that was weird, because that's just, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, after my dad recommended it to me, and then it just talking to my dad about leveraged investments. Yeah, why don't you do that instead? Oh, he said,    Keith Weinhold  32:00   right, as long as you control your cash flow and pay the mortgage and the operating expenses. Yeah, we typically talk about getting the leverage here, because the appreciation grade has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of equity that's in the property. Is there anything else interesting that you learned from going out in the field and actually seeing some properties or talking to some managers? And I think this is really interesting, because a lot of times when people graduate college, they tend to broad brushstroke students or new graduates, and say, Yeah, but they haven't gotten out in the real world yet, but you actually are as a student.    Hunter Taddy  32:33   Yeah. So that's one thing I really love about our program, and I really love our professor. He owns properties himself. It's not like a pyramid scheme thing where, like, almost like, you're going to college to learn how to be a professor, and sometimes that we need those people for, like, research and stuff. But like, he's actually done the work. He knows what it's like. He can relate to things that we're talking about. Yeah, we get a lot of that real world experience, which is really awesome going about that, like the leasing experience. One of the things with, like, a lot of the managers, especially in Anchorage, because there's such a housing shortage, a lot of them didn't really like try, because they like, almost don't have to, because, I think a lot of them assume you're gonna lease someone anyways, no matter, because it's not necessarily really competitive. So because the vacancy rate is so small, yeah. So it's just like, here's the kitchen. You know, we're actually taught in leasing class, leasing strategies. And also, what's really good about our classes, we read, like, a lot of personal growth books in our classes. So like in our leasing class, our professor had us read The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Stephen Covey and yeah. And then I think for our real estate investment class, we're going to read the compounding effect. I don't know what it's about, but I mean, I really appreciate how our professor gives us, like, those books and that knowledge that's not just, you know, specific to real estate. It's like how to become like a better person, or how to become better at personal finance in general.    Keith Weinhold  33:58   All right, so some conceptual and some mindset stuff, along with more of the hands on and more of the numbers. Well, before I ask you, what's next for you, do you have any last thoughts with what you've learned in class, or just anything overall about your generation and lifestyle and getting along financially? For a college student,    Hunter Taddy  34:18   in April, I'm going down to Austin for the property con, which is Institute of real estate management, big conference. I think they have this one every year too. I think John Quinones, the guy from what would you do, is going to be like one of the keynote speakers. So looking forward to that, definitely looking forward to some of, like, learning more about, like AI, and how it's used in, like, the property management, like real estate sphere, and then I'm kind of interested in green building, because it almost seems to be like, Win win, right? Because better for the environment and then better for the investor most of the time, you know, like, through these retrofits, like you're just switching to LED light bulbs, we actually, we ran those numbers a lot in my.In its class. Like, you know, what would it be like if you switch from iridescent to LED light bulbs? And it's like, that's like, what are the things that all property managers should do? Because you're saving, sometimes 1000s of dollars and seven or 10 year period, or whatever it is, improve the cap rate, right there? Yeah, I want to definitely learn more about, like, the green building. And also, just because, you know, I'm a healthy person, when I build my house one day, I don't want to have, like, a lot of toxic materials and stuff as well. I have one friend. He's really, really dialed in his health. They're talked about him with you before, but he, like, he's not even have drywall in his house because there's some, like, toxic thing in drywall, or something, like, he's gonna build it out of brick and mud or something, I don't know.    Keith Weinhold  35:39   Oh, he can't just go live in any rental. Yeah, well, Hunter, this has been really good. Your dad owns rentals in Wisconsin, and like you mentioned, he's red, Rich Dad, Poor Dad himself. So that's kind of an influence on you. And you do have a management internship back in Wisconsin this summer. But before we go on, you mentioned to me that your dad owns a certain type of apartments in Wisconsin, and I've never heard of that type before. What are they called? And then, what does that mean?    Keith Weinhold  36:06   I think the name is local to the city itself in Manitowoc, Wisconsin. So they're called custerdales. I think there were homes built after World War Two, I believe, for like GIS and things like that so well. Just before he got in the Air Force, he was in Saudi Arabia for a year, and he was thinking about, you know, what am I going to do when I retire? Because he knew after the year was done, he was going to retire and come back to Wisconsin. And one of his friends got him into real estate, and he talked to my mom a little bit, and they just started buying properties. So that was in 2018 and now they own about 70 units, mostly duplexes, with their biggest being a five Plex. They also have a 18 bed assisted living facility. Most of the the 70 units are called custerdales. They're all like, cookie cutter, like, the same they're basically the same layout, you know, sometimes it's just flipped or whatever. And he basically did the same thing each time, a lot of them were, like, really run down ones that they purchased had someone with a chicken living on top of the refrigerator. And then when they locked the place up after they bought it, he broke back in and took stuff. And so they've really, actually, like, helped the community in a way, by remodeling a lot of these homes. And then my dad would refinance them, and then he would take that money and then invest it into another property. And he just kept doing that again and again and again. Yeah, so buy and hold we self manage, because there's not really a reputable property management service in the area. This is near Manitowoc, Wisconsin. Maybe you've heard that name before. Manitowoc, they make heavy construction equipment, and you are going back to Wisconsin this summer for a management related internship, yeah, well, Hunter, well, this has been great talking about what your generation's like, what you do in your classes, and the practical experience that you're already getting as a 19 year old. I mean, you're just substantially further ahead than I was as a geography degree student and major way back in the day, if anyone wants to reach out to you, see what you're doing, or contact you. What's the best way for them to do that? Hunter.    Hunter Taddy  38:09   So I don't have Instagram or Facebook, but I do have LinkedIn. So if you just search Hunter toddy again, T, A, D, D, y, on LinkedIn, you can find me there. Also just give my email. It's H hottie 007 at Gmail.    Keith Weinhold  38:26   All right, look that up if you want to reach out to Hunter. Yeah, it's been great having you here. Thanks so much for coming on to the show.    Hunter Taddy  38:32   Thanks forhaving me.    Keith Weinhold  38:40   Yeah, a fresh perspective from college student, Hunter toddy today. He has got his act together amazingly well for a teenager, and you know, talking to him made me think about something like I said when I graduated college, and it was just with a bachelor's degree. By the way, pretty humble bachelor's double major, geography and regional planning, I had that 20k in student loan debt, which I transferred onto 0% APR credit cards, over and over again and inflation adjusted terms, that might be 40k in today's dollars. I had no incentive to pay it down, let alone pay it off, since my finance charges were essentially zero, so that's why I probably carried that balance for close to 20 years. But this is the first time that I thought about the fact that that very habit was probably a benefit to me, not because it saved me from paying interest on student loans, but because it got me comfortable withholding debt for the long term and rationalizing that there would be an opportunity cost of paying off that debt, because a payoff would have meant that I would forego the opportunity of investing those dollars to get gains, that habit got me comfortable with prudently using debt and leverage as a real estate investor, and that helped me own and control more property sooner. So it was a somewhat autodidactic approach to good debt. Today, we talk with a young, likely soon to be investor, oppositely next week here on the show. We're talking about the book end, on the other side of the shelf, and that is when you're ready to retire from real estate, you can exchange your properties into a fund, pay zero capital gains tax or depreciation recapture. And unlike a 1031 exchange, what you've done is you have totally exited the direct real estate business with a 721, exchange, and you still get financial upside with zero management duties retired. Finally, if you've ever wanted to tell me what you think about the GRE podcast, if this show has given you some fresh perspective or helped you become a better investor. The best way to support the show is to leave a quick rating or review. It helps more investors discover the show. Here's how to do it inside the get rich education Show page on Apple podcasts, scroll about halfway down to ratings and reviews. Tap the purple stars to rate, and then tap the purple words write a review on Spotify from the get rich education podcast, tap the three dots near the top of the show page, tap rate podcast and leave your star rating. That's all it takes. It's crazy that this show has almost 6 million total listener downloads, but yet, across all platforms, we have perhaps only 1000 reviews, and that's probably because I rarely ask for them. I would greatly appreciate it. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  41:59   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  42:27   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

In 1964, Lorey Kaye, a twenty-year-old from New Haven, CT, moved to Manhattan to start a new life in the big city. Lorey was a fresh-faced, dark-haired hippie, who attracted attention as much for her headstrong, determined, street smart attitude as for her striking good looks. She was hired as a waitress in a new nightclub that had just opened in Times Square – called Steve Paul’s ‘The Scene'. The club was an immediate hit with gigs by the likes of BB King, Jimi Hendrix, and Sammy Davis Jr., regular visitors like Andy Warhol and Edie Sedgwick – and Lorey was at the heart of the action. Another group, The Lovin’ Spoonful, also played there regularly, and their lead singer, John Sebastian, took a shine to her. John and Lorey started seeing each other, and Lorey became his muse, inspiring him to compose a number of the group's hit singles about her, such as ‘She's A Lady' and ‘Rain on the Roof', even mentioning her by name in some of the lyrics. Lorey and John Sebastian (1967) They got hitched in 1966 – by then Lorey had started work as an insider gossip columnist at Hit Parade magazine – and now known as Lorey Sebastian, she became a popular staple in the 1960s Greenwich Village folk-rock music scene. Lorey and John's relationship was glamorous, high-profile, and short-lived. Lorey broke up with John in 1968 when they were in Ireland. The legend is that she fell in with a group of gypsies, and felt compelled to tune in, drop out, and join them instead. It was said that John never fully recovered from the breakup. Lorey (right), with John Sebastian and Mama Cass (1967) Fast forward to the mid 1970s. Lorey was back in New York, now in her mid 30s and looking for a purpose. She'd become a member of the television and film workers union, with the vague ambition of being a still photographer on movie sets. To make a little extra money, she also did work as a crew member on sex films. It was on a Gerry Damiano movie that she met Jamie Gillis. Jamie sidled up to her, pushing her in the back, and exclaiming, “What a place to bump into a girl like you!” It was corny but it worked, and Lorey invited him back to her place. The mutual attraction was instant and sexual – but, for Jamie, there was something more this time. For a confirmed promiscuous bachelor, Jamie confided to friends that, whisper it quietly, Lorey might actually be the one. He spent time with her, encouraged her photography ambitions, taking her to exhibitions and galleries, and was tickled that one of his favorite songs, The Lovin’ Spoonful's ‘Daydream,' had been written for her. Not to suggest that Jamie's relationship with New York magazine's Insatiable Critic, Gael Greene, was over. Far from it. Even if the novelty of Jamie and Gael's physical and emotional relationship had subsided, they were still intent on documenting their lives, in and out of bed, for a proposed joint-autobiographical book. They continued to go the city's restaurants, cultural events, and glamorous parties, while Jamie spent his in-between time wrestling with whether he wanted an acting career, playing poker, going to the occasional audition, and making semi-regular starring appearances in adult films. In short, Jamie wanted to pursue Lorey, but not give up the affair with Gael. This is Part 2 of the story of Jamie Gillis and Gael Greene in 1978. Jamie This podcast is 49 minutes long. Listen to Part 1 of The Porn Star and the Foodie: Jamie Gillis & Gael Greene in 1978 here. * The post The Porn Star and the Foodie: Jamie Gillis & Gael Greene in 1978 Part 2, Lorey Sebastian – Podcast 159 appeared first on The Rialto Report.

Keith is joined by housing market intelligence authority Rick Sharga—a frequent guest on outlets like CNBC and Bloomberg who "quietly gets it right" rather than chasing clickbait crashes. Together, they dig into whether America really has a housing shortage and how that lines up with what you're seeing in prices and inventory.  They explore why entry-level homes are so constrained and what that means for both investors and homebuyers.  They also examine how mortgage rates, builder behavior, and demographic shifts could shape housing demand and investment opportunities over the next several years. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/596 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, does America really have a housing shortage? And if so, how long will it last? Those answers and more, with an expert guest and I today on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:19   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:03   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 2  1:36   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:46   Welcome to GRE from Nantucket, Massachusetts to Pawtucket, Rhode Island and across 188 nations worldwide. America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone has got his slack jawed act back on track for another wealth building week with you. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education. I'm still not wearing a pair of knockers, and I've returned here to bring you more value than your HOA dues. It's kind of crazy that America First put a man on the moon, and we're the first nation to put a man on the moon in 1969 and yet today, we have trouble housing our own people here on Earth. Shortly, we're going deep on does America really have a housing shortage first? Sometimes real estate investors can learn lessons from the stock market about the future direction of housing prices and demand and just simply what assets people have demand for, how AI is disrupting some stock sectors. Has been rather germane lately. One CEO made this perfect example. It's about how two different stocks travel search engine Expedia and Delta Airlines, those two stocks were once closely tied together. Their share prices used to be correlated, but they've gone in separate directions. See, Expedia offers you a service that can be replicated by bots, but delta has actual planes that take you somewhere, and it's hard for AI to replace that. This is why there's been a recent push toward more tangible stocks and tangible assets, a divergence, an attraction to assets that give you a share of either a tangible good, or, in the case of something like an airline, a service that's directly tied to something tangible. And similarly, commodities like gold, silver and copper cannot be replaced by AI. Neither can real estate. There is a growing sense to own things that can't be disrupted, dematerialized and demonetized by AI, like so much software can. In fact, as overall stock market valuations are lofty. You know, some people have become rather wary of an AI speculative bubble that perceptive to this demand. Just a few weeks ago, Goldman Sachs introduced an everything but AI index, yeah, where you can invest in a basket of companies that are sheltered from Ai disruption, this everything but AI index that's attracting investors. In fact, there's another trend that interfaces with real estate that just launched recently too today, you can wager on future homes. Prices through the platform, poly market, yes, place bets for profit or loss on the future direction of the median home price. In fact, one recent college graduate joked, I was born too late to afford a house, and born just in time to gamble on people who can buy a house? Yeah, you're probably familiar with poly market by now. It's the prediction market that lets you speculate on things like elections and Fed rate decisions and various geopolitical events and other real world outcomes. Well, they have launched a set of real estate markets that allow users to bet on future home values. The way it works is that you can wager on future home values in New York, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco and Austin, Texas, as well as US national home values. So that's six different markets. Now I haven't gambled on Poly market, I had checked it at times to get an idea of where people really think markets are headed or what's going to happen next. Because, rather than major media, where sometimes as a hype machine, they create headlines that scare you in order to try to get clicks, well, instead of all that, regular people are placing their money on polymarket, and you can look at what that action is like, because that can be a more reliable harbinger of future price direction at last check with a national median home price of about 420k with the numbers, poly market is using one month from now, 66% of people think that home prices will rise. And it's more nuanced than that. You can bet on just what price range you believe home prices will fall into one month from now. And this is nothing that I recommend wagering on, but besides an interesting trend, yeah, you can get that idea of where real people actually believe markets are headed. As we're about to talk to national housing expert Rick sharga on whether or not we really have a housing shortage, we've got new data about the level of housing permits. Of course, housing permits are a gage of the level of future housing inventory, because after a permit is issued, it's typically six to 12 months until a single family home is built. But I'll share that with you near the end of the show, because it makes sense to cover this with you in chronological order. We'll discuss housing supply first, and then I'll tell you about the future supply direction based on housing permits. Now, you know from the inception of this show in 2014 I talked about the why of real estate investing before the how with anything in life, it's only when you truly know why you're doing something that you'll profoundly care about the how and you'll want to do it well. In fact, when I do an in person real estate presentation, one of the modules that I teach most often is simply called Why real estate. The biggest Why is not altruistic, although that matters, and that's part of it. But instead it's that real estate pays five ways. That's the biggest why any GRE devotee knows that the five ways are simultaneously paid, are appreciation, cash flow, ROA tax benefits, and not inflation hedging. But specifically inflation profiting. Yet I have found multi decade real estate investors that don't understand this, the most valuable hour that you can spend is knowing all the ways that you're paid and seeing and believing how your total rate of return of 20% 30% or even 40% is not far fetched or risky, but it's actually common and even estimated conservatively. If you're initiated on this, you already know, but if you aren't, it can sound a little hard to believe what I just said right there, I recently reshot the entire real estate pays five ways video course, and it's the most valuable hour of investing video content that you're likely ever to see. It's premium, masterclass level content. I'm just giving it away for free because people need to know this. And actually, on the newest shoot, I've condensed it down into just 40 minutes of content across the five videos, one instructional video for each of the five ways you're paid. The videos average eight minutes. So that's about 40 minutes total, and they build on. Each other. So at the end of each one, you get to see your cumulative rate of return. It just keeps adding up, and you know exactly where all of the numbers come from. That's why it's more conducive to video form than audio form. I know that many of you have seen it, but if not, it is foundational, and I cannot recommend it enough. It's free and available to you now. At get richeducation.com/course, get that now, while it's on your mind. At get rich education.com/course, more next, I'm Keith Weinhold, this is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  10:39   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre.   Keith Weinhold  11:16   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 Yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Kathy Fettke  12:27   this is the real wealth network's Kathy betke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold. You   Keith Weinhold  12:46   Is America really short millions of homes? If so, that doesn't mean every market is undersupplied, and prices can only go up because of it. If there's a housing shortage, why are prices falling in some cities? So the shortage? Is that something that's real, or is it just misunderstood, and you're gonna learn what it means to you? I'm get rich education's Keith Weinhold along with an intelligence authority today that usually gets it right. In fact, I found an old clip of him on Bloomberg where he suggested home prices bottoming in 2011 and as it turns out, they sure did today, together, we're answering the question, does America really have a housing shortage? And my guest has often appeared in major media, CNBC, Fox NPR. He's the founder of the CJ Patrick company. Hey, welcome back to the show. Rick sharga,   Rick Sharga  13:39   good to see you again. Keith, thanks for inviting me.   Keith Weinhold  13:41   You know, it's funny. Four years ago, Rick and I found each other, and we sort of checked each other out. I found him to be an authority that just doesn't go on saying this bombastic and absurd stuff just to get attention. Instead, he quietly gets it right, and when he knew I had a real estate YouTube channel, similarly, I resonated, because I'm not one of these people that's constantly saying that housing prices are going to crash just to get views and then those crash. People never follow up when they're wrong, and they've been wrong for about 14 years now. But Rick, rather than prices, we're here to understand if there's really a housing shortage today, most agencies believe we have a shortage. Moody's will tell you 2 million. Zillow, four to 5 million. Congressional Republicans have gone on to say 20 million. I sure don't know about that. And then yet, Rick sometimes at the same time, you do see these conflicting stats, where it says that sellers outnumber buyers today, which sort of flies in the face of a housing shortage. So what is your take amidst all this?   Rick Sharga  14:46   Well, Keith, I think what we're seeing is a fairly obvious example that if you torture data enough, you can make it say anything in the right you wanted to say. And there is a lot of confusion about how much. A housing shortage we really do have. It's not like we have 20% of the population unable to find anywhere to live. Most people still prefer to live indoors, and they've been able to do so, but the fact of the matter is that all of the math suggests that we are underserved in terms of the number of housing units available across the country, and we can go through some of the math. The big question, of course, is, how many houses are we short? How many housing units are we short? And the reason the numbers are all over the place, and as you suggested, let's set aside the Republican estimate of 20 million, because there's, there's certainly something political going on there, but the estimates range from around a million to as high as five or 6 million. And the reality is all of those estimates are counting something different. Some are counting housing growth versus population growth. Some are counting vacancy rates compared to historic levels, some are counting inventory available for sale today versus inventory available to sale in prior years. So each of these organizations, and they're all pretty reliable organizations, Moody's is certainly good. Zillow's research team is top notch. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac the National Association of Realtors. None of these people are hiring dime store economists. They're all good folks, but they're all measuring something slightly different, which is why these numbers come out all over the place, and the one of the fundamental challenges is trying to figure out housing shortages compared to what, or compared to when. All of these estimates assume that there was some point in history when we had exactly the right number of housing units to suit the needs of the population. So they start with some point in time, and I think if you did enough research, you find they all start at slightly different points in time, and then kind of work their way forward from that and come to very different conclusions, again, based on where they started and where they ended up, and what they count. The one thing I would push back on a little bit from some of your comments in the intro is that I am highly, highly skeptical, extraordinarily skeptical of the reports that talk about how many more sellers we have than buyers, because that makes some wild assumptions about the number of people that are actually interested in buying a house. And I've never seen any research methodology that's really nailed that number accurately. Because nobody knows if you're thinking about buying a house right now, until you go to an open house until you do a search on on Zillow, or realtor.com or homes.com until you actually are applying for a loan or making a deposit. So the notion of being able to mind read three 40 million Americans to figure out how many of them are interested in buying, I think, is a neat trick, but I do think it's at least in part one of those methods that people use to get a lot of clicks to their website   Keith Weinhold  18:05   right? This whole thing of and I think when we talk about sellers versus buyers, that's shorthand. What we really mean are, there are some stats out there that show that prospective sellers outnumber prospective buyers, in some cases, which, yeah, I think I agree with you there. I doubt that as well. And yeah, of course, I think you're getting on some of the nuance here. We're trying to predict how some people would behave. For example, how much pent up demand is there when we're talking about sellers versus buyers, and we're talking about a shortage, for example, say, the 28 year old living with their parents that could move out and afford to buy a home if mortgage rates hit 5% like for example, how do you count that? Or, how would you even know to   Rick Sharga  18:53   it's a valid point. Keith, and I think that fundamentally, is my question. With that particular report, you really can't count that person. We do have some metrics that we follow, and it's funny, you mentioned that 5% mortgage, because as we record this, mortgages have broken that 6% threshold for the first time in a number of years. And just about every kind of mortgage you could buy right now is below 6% so that's a good thing. And every time we've gotten close to that 6% mark. In recent years, since mortgage rates doubled back in 2022 we've seen a huge influx of people applying for purchase loans, for those mortgage loans to buy a house, those numbers are up somewhere between 13 and 15% year over year right now, and that's before we've really had these mortgage rates dip below 6% so to me, that suggests there really is pent up demand out there, and I judge that just based on what I see in terms of a number of people actively applying for a loan.   Keith Weinhold  19:54   Yeah, there's a lot of nuance here. HUD tells us that we have more. Homeless people than we've ever had in this nation. So that's sort of an extreme affordability problem. To your point earlier about how most people want to live indoors, and I'm sure not making light of homelessness. It's a sad situation, but we're always going to have homeless people regardless of whether we have excess housing or a housing shortage. We have about 146 million housing units in the United States. The census shows and suggests that 8 million of those 146 million are housing units where people have doubled up and are sharing space with non relatives. That's one way to think about the level of pent up demand within the shortage,   Rick Sharga  20:44   I don't know if that's a result of shortage necessarily, or if that's a result of having the weakest affordability for people looking to buy homes that we've had in over 40 years. The last time affordability was as bad was the 1980s and the reason affordability was bad back then was because mortgage rates were at 1819, 20% and it made it very difficult for people to afford homes. But we're coming out of a very unusual cycle, and this is a little bit off topic from our inventory question, but it's the only time in US history when two conditions have hit the housing market back to back, if you go back to covid, coming out of covid, we saw home prices go up nationally by over 50% in about 18 months. It was a huge, huge, unprecedented increase. Yeah, and right on the heels of that, as inflation started to get out of control, the Federal Reserve had to take pretty extreme measures to get that back down. So they started playing with the Fed funds rate, and we saw mortgage rates double in 2022 in the history of the country, according to Freddie Mac we've never seen mortgage rates double in a calendar year. And in 2022 They not only doubled in a calendar year, they doubled in the space of a few weeks. So we're coming out of a period where home prices went up by over 50% and then mortgage rates doubled, and it just crushed affordability. So the people that have been looking to buy a $400,000 house suddenly realized they could only afford a $200,000 house, and there were none of those around. It's really why home sales have gone down as rapidly as they had volume of sales. In 2021 we sold 6 million existing homes. In 2022 it dropped to 5 million. And for the last three years, we've been sitting at around about 4 million annual sales of existing homes. And again, that doesn't suggest a lack of inventory, a lack of homes, because there are fewer people buying, and there's more properties staying on the market longer. But the underlying numbers, the underlying metrics we would look at, are where we can start to kind of deduce that there aren't enough homes. For example, you mentioned that there are about 146 million housing units across the country. Most recent census data I have from the end of 2024 says it's about 140 748, 40 748 million. So it's up just slightly from your number. That represents a growth of about 6.7% in housing units between 2010 and 2024 during the same period of time, the population went from about 309 million to about 340 1 million, and that represents a growth rate of about 7.4% so if everything else stayed equal, your population grew at a faster rate than your housing units did. And that suggests that even if the number of housing units was ideal back in 2000 it's somewhere less than ideal by the time we got to the end of last year,    Keith Weinhold  23:42   we're talking with Rick sharga. He's the founder and owner of the housing market intelligence firm, the CJ Patrick company. We're answering the question, does America really have a housing shortage? We're getting a yes there. And before we're done, we're going to talk about, how long could the shortage persist? But Rick, you spoke to affordability, and I think that has a lot to do with the nuances within the shortage, and that brings up shortages within the luxury tier versus shortages in the entry tier. And the entry tier is really what a lot of our listeners and viewers are interested in, because we're used to buying those as rental properties. So can you tell us about that?   Rick Sharga  24:23   It's a great point, Keith. And what we've been talking about so far is kind of a structural shortage in the overall number of housing units that could be purchased, could be owner occupied, could be rented. And one of the culprits there, and I will answer your question, I promise, one of the culprits there is that builders simply haven't built that much. If you look at the long term average, like 2025 years, the average number of housing starts was somewhere between 1.3 and 1.4 million a year coming out of the Great Recession in 2010 so you look at that last 15 year period or so, 12. Of those years, they've started less homes than that long term average. So builders simply haven't been keeping pace, not only with population growth, but also with just the ability to create enough homes in general, to offset the number of homes that are obsoleted every year, that get bulldozed every year. So there is a structural shortage. To your point, if you look at inventory available for sale, we are up about 9% year over year, but we're still down about 15% from where we were prior to the pandemic. So there are fewer homes for sale than there were back when the market was functioning more efficiently. The most drastic shortage is at the entry level builders simply have not been making a lot of entry level properties. There's a reason for that. There's some independent research out there, including some research from Fannie Mae that suggests that the pre construction cost a builder has to absorb before they break ground is over $100,000 across the country, on average, higher than that, where I'm calling you from today, in California, it's about 120,000 there. If your table stakes are 100,000 $120,000 it's really difficult to make a profit on an entry level property. So the builders, I think understandably, have been focusing on higher dollar, higher value properties and not replenishing that supply that we need for first time buyers and the kind of properties that real estate investors tend to like. The other problem we've had, Keith, is that when those mortgage rates doubled, the people who had purchased those entry level homes refinanced into a two and a half 3% mortgage and are now sitting on a $300,000 property, let's say or $250,000 property with a two and a half percent mortgage. And if they wanted to trade up, they'd be trading up to a four or $500,000 house with a 6% mortgage. And they simply can't afford to do that. So the combination of entry level owners staying put at much larger numbers and builders creating new entry level homes at much smaller numbers has really created kind of a crisis of inventory at the entry level segment of the housing market.    Keith Weinhold  27:18   Yeah, when we talk about that crisis of inventory in what's available. I'm not talking about shortage numbers now. I'm talking about the active listing count. This means more or less available homes to buy. This includes single family homes and condos. We have an active listing count of around 1 million today. The historic average is around 2.2 million, and that peaked near 4 million during the global financial crisis. So today, only about one quarter as many active listings, available homes as at the peak,    Rick Sharga  27:54   yeah, only about half as many as, let's call it a normal market, and that's one of the reasons. I think the first time you and I spoke on your podcast, we were talking about all the online snake oil salesmen who were predicting a home price crash. But that's one of the reasons why home prices haven't crashed, and why they've kind of continued to grow, at least at a modest pace, and in some cases now are starting to decline a little bit. But that lack of inventory on the market. When you don't have enough inventory to meet demand, or just barely enough to meet demand, that means that seller doesn't really have to negotiate all that much. That means that buyers are kind of at a disadvantage, and so as long as that's the case, you'll see home price stability. That doesn't mean that every market is going to see prices go up. But if you look across the country right now, if you look at markets where home prices are down even marginally year over year, you're looking at the Gulf Coast states, you're looking at some other southern markets, Las Vegas, Phoenix, you're looking at some outlying markets like Boise, Florida, certainly, and Texas. And those are markets where inventory is actually considerably higher than it was a year ago, and in some cases, considerably higher than it was back in 2019, if you look at markets where prices are still going up a lot, Midwest, Northeast, those are still markets where there's not enough inventory to meet demand. So that relationship between available inventory for sale and demand is really what drives pricing    Keith Weinhold  29:23   this whole discussion, which is really about the supply, just in the economics one on one. Adam Smith of supply versus demand. A lot of people, just like including my dad, when I was telling him about housing, something he doesn't follow. And I told him that prices are up the most in the Northeast and Midwest. That surprised him. He was like, No, well, population growth is lower here and lower than Pennsylvania, where he lives. And that's when I brought up, well, they're under building there. So in parsing this by geography, Rick, I think another way that we can do it is parsing the housing shortage by the single family homes versus apartments, because it's. Pretty well documented that nationally, apartments could be seen as overbuilt, and single family is under built. Do you have any details with respect to that?    Rick Sharga  30:08   We talk a little bit about that, and quick shout out to both of our home state, Pennsylvania, yeah, Phil, Philadelphia actually had some of the highest annual price increases right in their home sales last year. But part of that isn't just because they haven't been building a lot in Philadelphia or the suburbs. It's because we see people moving from higher priced markets into lower priced markets. So we have people actually commuting to New York who have bought homes in Philadelphia or the Philadelphia area. They can get much more house for their money there. They're not subject to some of the wage taxes that happen in New York State. They just get on that Amtrak and train into the city every day. So there is some of that going on across the country too, as we still see net migration of people moving out of states like California, New York and Illinois into nearby states where the cost of living is much lower. That slowed down since covid, since a lot of companies have been requiring people to come work back at the office. But it is still happening. It is still happening in generally the same direction you raise the issue of inventory for rental units versus inventory for, let's say, owner occupied properties, we have seen a plateau in the number of single family rental homes. So the stuff you're hearing out of DC, that you're seeing the media about the really important ban on institutional investor buying is really much more sizzle than substance. Oh, right. Institutional investors are owned and are buying a fraction, but we've seen over a million apartment units come online in the last 18 months. It's about the largest number of apartments that have that have sprung up and in that shorter period of time on record. And we've gotten to a point where in some markets, there's actually a little bit of an oversupply of those apartment units now that will balance itself out over the next couple of years, because multifamily building starts are way down too so we're not seeing a lot of activity there as builders hold off, waiting for this new inventory to get absorbed. But to put it in perspective, vacancy rates went from near zero back during covid in those apartments to over 6% last year. Rental rates have gone down from 15% year over year, increases back in 2020, 2021, to negative numbers nationally in the last year, just talking apartments, just apartments. So we have a short term mini glut, if you will, of apartments. It will be absorbed rapidly. We have 92 million people between the ages of 26 and 54 who are have either formed households or are about to a lot of them would like to be homebuyers can't afford today's prices, so they're renting instead. And about 5 million people a year are turning 35 which is when, you know, we parents start literally kicking them out of the house. So I think that rental overage will resolve itself, really, in the next 12 to 18 months. And if the builders don't start building new inventory by that point, we'll wind up with another shortage on the housing front, I'm of the opinion that we're at least a million homes short compared to what demand should be. I think the number is probably somewhere between one and 2 million. And again, I'm doing that simply based on a slight decrease in vacancy rates, population growth and the aging of the population. What could throw all of our numbers off? Keith is one of the X factors in demographics and population, which is immigration. Population growth, if it's organic, if it's by birth, does have an effect on housing, to an extent, but it's it's more nuanced, and it takes longer to really show itself if you're dealing with adult immigrants coming into the country, particularly immigrants who are coming in for jobs and have income that they can spend on housing, your housing demand goes up quickly, and that can have some local market repercussions depending on where the immigrants are going.   Keith Weinhold  34:18   In Philadelphia is not a coastal city. Its cost of housing is surprisingly low to a lot of people, but it's not on a coast. Just look at a map. Well, Rick, as we're winding down here, how long could the housing shortage persist overall?   Rick Sharga  34:33   I think we're in a period of time right now where builders are reluctant to overbuild. They got caught in the great recession with about a 13 month supply of homes available for sale, and then as home prices crashed, they were competing with their own inventory from the prior year, and many of them took a real beating financially during that period of time. So I don't expect we'll see builders overbuild anytime soon. And that tells me that we're probably looking at at least another three to five years before we can have a rational conversation about housing numbers kind of leveling off to be where they should be. We mentioned immigration. That is an X factor that could extend the housing shortage. If we start to see more immigration coming into the country, it could mean that we don't need as many houses as I suspect, if we have fewer people coming into the country. And the other x factor here is the boomers, the baby boomers of any generational cohort, probably have the highest home ownership rates right now and ultimately will age out of their properties. They've stayed there longer than any prior generation has, and that's also contributed to the inventory shortage, as opposed to the housing shortage. But as a friend of mine said, and it's a little macabre, but as he says, boomers will eventually leave their homes, either vertically or horizontally, so that will bring some inventory back to the market as well   Keith Weinhold  35:58   housing supply. It is rather inelastic, and we're probably going to be in this shortage for a number of years. Well, Rick, tell us how and why people consult with you and then just how they can do that.   Rick Sharga  36:12   Yeah, I work with mostly companies that are in the real estate or mortgage industries. Keith, I typically prepare a lot of market intelligence reports to them. It's real estate data, economic data, mortgage data. For some clients, I do foreclosure reports. They know what's going on in terms of delinquencies and defaults. For others, I do research on investor purchase activity, what they're buying, what they're selling, what they're paying, where they're doing all this. So anything that's data related to real estate data, mortgage data, economic data, I'm kind of neck deep in and I'm very easy to find on either LinkedIn or x. So if anybody's listening today and wants to connect on those platforms, just reach out and tell me you saw me on the GRE podcast, and I'll know you're legit.   Keith Weinhold  36:56   Housing supply is coming up short, but Rick never does. It's been great having you back on the show.   Rick Sharga  37:02   We'll do it again soon, Keith, It's great talking to you.   Keith Weinhold  37:10   Do we really have a housing shortage? The answer is yes, and the number of units short is one to 2 million. The shortage is worst in the entry level home segment, which matters so much to us as investors, we are owning an asset that's going to have sustainable demand for quite a while into the future. Rick indicated that it could take perhaps three to five years just to get back into balance. Now, we recently learned that there were fewer housing permits issued last year than there were in any year since 2019 and housing permits are an indicator of the future home supply. They had their recent peak five years ago with 1.7 5 million, and last year, there were just about 1.4 million. So home permits issued are 19% lower today than they were back in 2021 this is a harbinger of supply, because from the time that a permit is issued, it takes six to 12 months to complete a single family home. It's about six months to build a tract home, and closer to 12 months for a custom home. For apartments, it can take in excess of 24 months to deliver that period of time from permitting to completion. So nationally, we should continue to see scarce supply in the one to four unit space, keeping upward pressure on prices again for the most valuable 40 minutes of educational real estate investing material around you can access my premium real estate pays five ways, master class of five videos, totally free. And you know how I operate. I don't try to upsell you to some paid course. Either. It's just truly free. I'll send it to you. You can access it at get rich education.com/course coming up on future episodes here on the get rich education podcast, we're about to go on a run. The next stretch of GRE is loaded. We've got fresh topics with some game changing monolog content that I'm going to share with you new guests, distinguished guests. Next week, the youngest guest to ever appear on the show is going to be with us. He's a 19 year old college student with a real estate investing related major. How does he see Gen Z's financial world? Is there any hope at all? The following week, we're going to break down an innovative way to sell properties that could completely change how you think about your exit strategy when it's all done, when it's time for you to retire from real estate, rather than a 1031, Exchange, which would just keep you in the real estate game and with more of it, do a seven. 21 exchange into a real estate fund. Have no more assets to manage, no more property managers to manage total capital gains tax deferral and still get financial upside. And then just four weeks from now, it's get rich education podcast episode number 600 debt is the American dream. So if you're serious about building wealth, be sure to follow or subscribe to the show. If you've already done that, I would really appreciate it if you told a friend about this show until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  40:39   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.    Keith Weinhold  40:58   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com

Keith breaks down where the U.S. housing market appears to be headed and which regions and states are quietly winning or losing in the population shuffle since 2020—and what that could mean for real estate investors.  You'll also hear about an intriguing cash-flow play in single-family rentals in select Southern markets. Then, Keith is joined by financial strategist and comedian Garrett Gunderson, who challenges the usual "scrimp and save" advice. Together, they explore how to build real wealth without sacrificing your life today, how high-net-worth individuals often get money wrong, and a different way to think about financial independence, freedom, and investing in yourself. Resources: Get Garrett Gunderson's Killing Sacred Cows audiobook free: DM @GarrettBGunderson on Instagram with the words "Keith Cows." Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/595 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the future direction of the housing market trending up or trending down? Which states have seen the most population growth? Then powerful wealth mindset tactics with a financial comedian today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:20   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and keep top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:04   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 2  1:38   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:54   Welcome to GRE from Mount Rainier to Mount Rushmore and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. I am not a Lambo driving influencer that will take any brand deal just to shill a gambling platform instead. Our core strategy at GRE is aging. Well, I've spoken with a lot of LP investors with capital calls and deals that lost all their money. Well, we approach wealth building with discipline and consistency. It doesn't sound dazzling, but it really shines when things go wrong elsewhere, because at least for the core of our portfolios, we get long term fixed rate debt for income property get paid five ways and win the inflation triple crown, and we do it all with a high degree of passivity. Right before I took the mic today, I got a two sentence email from a property manager that said an air conditioning unit's air handler board had to be replaced for $420 I don't even know what an air handler board really is. Now, the manager sent some photos in a written estimate. I quickly checked chat GPT, and I saw that the price was about right, and replied to my manager to go ahead and have that done. That's it an example of relative passivity. US residential real estate has nominally appreciated over every single 10 year period in modern history, despite some occasional short term downturns, even those are not common. Well, we recently had a guest mention that it's 20 years at the longest like 20 years or less is the period of time between which real estate never goes down. He was right. But you actually can't find any 10 year period where home values fell. What about the 2008 global financial crisis, I think that's the first place that the mind goes. Well back then, home values bottomed out at 208k in 2009 before they started growing again. And 10 years before that, the median price it was 157k in 1999 so even when home values hit their GFC low at that point, they were still up 32% from the previous 10 years. So you can confidently say then that over any 10 year period, home prices are up nationally. Now, how about the future? Well, for the future, there is more evidence of rising home prices. Building permits for new homes have fallen to their lowest level since 2019 that's according to the census bureau. So fewer single family homes are being built. Now we plan to discuss that more on. Next week show when we dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage? But this week, more reasons for future home price bullishness is that the labor market now, it's not doing that great. It sure isn't white hot, but unemployment, which was already low, that recently dropped a touch lower to just 4.3% inflation has fallen to 2.4% and wages are rising faster than that. In fact, our own Fed Chair recently remarked at how he's surprised at the strength of the economy. The property market analytics firm kotality, they now expect home prices to appreciate another four and a half percent this year. They and other firms continue to believe that the Midwest will be the hottest area of home price growth even more than that four and a half percent in that region. That is because not only is the Midwest underbuilt, it's that the prices are so affordable that it's attracting young people. The other factor is that mortgage rates recently dipped just below six into the high fives again, and that can release this pent up housing demand, and think about where we've come from. In late 2023 mortgage rates were about 8% and now lower mortgage rates also reduce the lock in effect, so it can create both more sellers and more buyers. The thing to remember is that 70% to 80% of home sellers are also home buyers because they've got to live somewhere. And first time homebuyers, of course, they buy only, they don't sell anything. In fact, former GRE guest in housing wire lead analyst Logan modeshami and Barry Habib were just positing on this at housing wire's latest summit on how the volume of home sales has been depressed for so long that lower rates could very well trigger a rush of buyers, these kind of people that have been delaying purchasing for years, this pent up housing demand being released if indeed rates go lower. People think they know the future, but we don't really know that that's going to happen for sure. But a lot of optimism about this phase of the housing market supported by not great, but decent economic conditions. Of course, that new housing demand is going to manifest unevenly across the nation. So let's talk about the places that have seen the most population growth from 2020 to today, basically the states that support that housing demand. Well, between 2020 and today, the US has grown by about 10 million people. That's over 3% nearly every state grew. But the bigger story is where that growth is happening. And really, here's the jaw dropper as a region, the South, gained more people than all of the other regions combined, about 7.6 million new residents in the south since 2020 the South's population is up 6% the West's almost 2% the Midwest population is up more than 1% and The Northeast up seven tenths of 1% again, this is not per year. This is total population growth from 2020 to today, Florida and Texas, they led the nation among the big states, both up almost 9% sprinting like they just found out that income tax is optional. The Carolinas in Tennessee are big southern growers too. People clearly keep moving toward warmer weather, a lower cost of living, lower taxes and job markets. Nothing new there. California in New York are the biggest losers in absolute numbers, California losing half of 1% of population in New York, a full 1% people keep moving away from these traditionally expensive, high tax coastal states like a buffet when the crab legs run out, people just getting up and leaving. That's not any sort of news story there, either. These trends help cash flow residential real estate investors like us, because the south aligns with that favorable landlord tenant law and those high ratios of rent income to purchase price. Luckily for us, that's where people are moving too. The Midwest has those phenomena as well, although their growth has been slower.    Keith Weinhold  9:39   Now a few Midwest highlights for you. Since 2020 the population of Indiana is up 2.8% quietly benefiting from Illinois. Escape Velocity, Missouri up almost 2% and that's growing mostly in Kansas City and St Louis suburbs. Ohio at almost 1% that's pretty modest growth overall, but Columbus up 5% that is flexing like it just landed a semiconductor plant there in Columbus, the intermountain west has bicep bulging growth, but it rarely works for us, because rents are only a little higher, but property prices are way higher. Yes, those pretty Rocky Mountain states, great Instagram, tough cash flow now Louisiana, it is a state that confounds people. It's a warm place, and it has a low cost of living, you would think Louisiana would be attracting people in droves for those reasons. Well, then why is its population following Louisiana down nine tenths of 1% since 2020 Well, you've got bleak job prospects that make Louisianans leave its tax competitiveness ranks 31st property insurance costs are high thanks to environmental risk. Louisiana has more swamps than beaches. Even the NFL saints were six and 11, and if they had made the playoffs, that wouldn't have made people move back. And hey, no personal shade here, I enjoy going to the New Orleans investment conference in Cajun culture, in Airboat Tours through the alligator filled Bayou, fun stuff, but for income producing property, you got to seek out different characteristics than just vacation Glee or how Good the gumbo tastes keep emotion separate from investing, Hawaii is America's biggest percentage loser. Its population is down one and a half percent since 2020 its cost of living is stratospherically high, with a median home value of just a little over a million dollars. That results in net outmigration to the mainland parts of the Aloha state now experience natural decrease. That means that deaths exceed births. Natural decrease. That's mostly a phenomenon on the Big Island. That's not where Honolulu is. That's where you have Kona and Hilo when young people can't afford to stay demographic gravity kicks in population loss. Hawaii is also highly dependent on tourism, meaning more volatility in recessions. It has contractor availability issues and higher repair costs, partly due to shipping materials to the remote islands. What about the upsides of Hawaiian real estate? Well, you're just going to have this inherent, strong, long term land scarcity and lifestyle desirability overall. Hawaii isn't bad. It's just hard. And I like Hawaii as a place to vacation, so the best times in my life were in Hawaii. Now, with all this said, These are broad generalities about states which are big places themselves right now. There are certainly Missouri real estate investors listening to me that are actually losing, and Hawaii real estate investors that are winning, and even cash flow positive. I'm talking general trends here, and this is with respect to long term rentals, not short term rentals. If your rent to price ratio is as low as point three or point four, like it often is near the coasts, well then you are speculating on appreciation. That's what that means. All 50 states have opportunity. All 50 states have no go zones. People keep moving south. That's a trend that the pandemic accelerated six years ago. More opportunity is concentrated there. That's got nothing to do with vacation excitement. That is population math, and I'm talking about swimming with the tide here in our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter I recently sent you that colorful population change map that I was describing some of there. More recently, I also emailed you that great and rare map of landlord friendly versus tenant friendly states mapped out and a lot of other great stuff.    Keith Weinhold  14:17   Before we bring in our firebrand guest, Garrett Gunderson, I just learned about a really strong opportunity for a provider of single family rentals and duplexes in Memphis and Little Rock. They're providing a locked in 5% interest rate and 5% property management for five years. Yeah, that's not a throwback to 2020 it's what mid south homebuyers calls their triple five program. They are the oldest and most trusted, maybe turnkey investment provider in the country, operating since 2002 and what they do is they offer these fully renovated, occupied rental properties in Memphis and Little Rock, two of the strongest cash flow markets in the South. With financing and management and rates that make the math work like it hasn't in years. So again, 5% interest, 5% property management fees for a full five years. You know those markets, they already had these investor advantage numbers with rent to price ratios mere point eight in Memphis and Little Rock. But yeah, that low 5% mortgage rate, even for renovated properties, not just new build. That's the kind of spread that turns a good deal into a great one. So to give you an idea, if you get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage loan amount of 125k with a 7% mortgage rate, your principal and interest payment is 832, at a 5% rate, it's just 671, so that's $160 more cash flow right there, and it's made a tad sweetener than that with just a 5% Property Management rate. And I don't know how long that offer is going to last, but it is available now and for the next little while, you can ask about it. When you visit mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com and you can ask them about their triple five program. More next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 595, of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  16:19   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre. You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 Yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Dani-Lynn Robison  18:08   this is freedom family investments. Co founder, Danny Lynn Robinson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Brenda.   Keith Weinhold  18:24   Today's guest is someone that America knows as the long haired, bearded money guy in the past, he's drawn physical appearance comparisons to Jesus Christ. He's a prominent financial strategist. Founded an eight figure company, hit the Inc 500 he's both a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. He is just an electric speaker, including appearances in front of dozens of billionaires. And he's just got this great way of speaking to financial freedom that hits you differently. He even has a comedy special that's great to welcome back to the show. Garrett Gunderson,   Garrett Gunderson  19:02   that's good to be back. Man. Is really good. Love your energy. Has a nice intro.   Keith Weinhold  19:07   Well, you give a lot of like, nice guidance to people that's somewhat different than they're used to hearing. You know, Garrett, I think a lot of the conventional guidance is, you know, it's not very far above Elementary School advice like, put your credit card in the freezer so you don't use it too often, but a lot of times you speak to either business owners or people that have already had some success, and I think a lot of your underlying mantra is, hey, you better live your best life now   Garrett Gunderson  19:35   I kind of feel like you are your greatest asset, and if you starve out that asset because you don't feed it with knowledge, or you don't invest in yourself, or you don't gain the skills that really matter because you're so addicted to scrimping and sacrificing and building your balance sheet right, trying to build savings accounts and retirement plans and doing all you can to pay off that mortgage. Yeah, you could become a millionaire on paper. But will you live like one? Will you enjoy your. Life. What about all the memories that you miss along the way? What about having quality of life today and creating a life you don't want to retire from? The wealthy people, they didn't get that way because they shrunk their way there. They didn't get that way because they were amazing budgeters. They built businesses. They created value. They learned how to, you know, sell or speak or market or have business acumen that grow business or to hire people, and having those systems that actually impact more people or more deeply impact the people that they serve, because it's about value creation and their value creators. And I think this notion of just thinking, Oh, I could just trade time for money and set money aside. Man, that's a really painful way to get to a million dollars, but Northwestern Mutual, they just put out an article that said, 32 or 34% of millionaires don't feel wealthy, because if you have money tied up in an account that isn't kicking off cash flow, it doesn't feel like wealth. You can't spend that net worth. It's just a statement if you don't learn how to create cash flow. And I love financial independence, where people have cash flow from assets to cover their expenses now their lifestyle is covered from that cash flow. Now they can reinvest every active dollar into themselves and their quality of life, into more cash flowing assets, into taking trips along the way, not just waiting until they're too old to enjoy it.   Keith Weinhold  21:13   You work with business owners all the time, and you've even worked with some ultra high net worth people that still seemed to scrimp and save. Do you think really, what is that the function of? Is it more of the wrong mindset or the wrong tactics when someone acts that way?   Garrett Gunderson  21:32   It's a mindset that's really kind of handed down to them? Yeah, maybe from their parents or grandparents or from a different era, like there's people that were, you know, in the Great Depression, that then tells stories to their family about how tough it was, and you never know when that money could go away. So you got to hold tight, and it's a scarcity mindset. So one of the wealthiest clients I ever had, I mean, this was a guy who he was worth a lot of money, but you would never know it. I saw him on TV one day. I was like, Dude, he needs new clothes, and we found a strategy to save him a bunch of money. He was just buying his inventory with cash or like, let's buy it on a plum card, and you'll get cash back. I just said, Just take 10% of that cash back, which was over $100,000 a month, and spend it on yourself. He's like, Well, I wouldn't know to spend it on I'm like, Well, how about some new clothes to start with? He's like, Okay. And then the next month, he bought a nest system for his house. The next month he bought a sound system. Eventually, saved up enough money to buy a Tesla, which he really wanted, like it was money that was there for him, but it changed his entire paradigm, because now he had a quality of life. He was very philanthropic and donated money. He built massive businesses, but he never treated himself well. He'd never felt like it was okay to spend that money because of his upbringing, because the way that his parents viewed money and the way that their parents viewed money, and it was always something that felt scarce. So it felt like, okay, will this go away? And the reality was, we just found money in your couch cushions, essentially. So why not enjoy it along the way? He eventually bought a home that he loved on the water, that he loves the garden. I mean, it was like a total transformation with that one simple thing to help him heal his relationship with money, overcome scarcity, because he was already highly productive. He just had to break free from this budgetary mindset.   Keith Weinhold  23:09   That's great. It was almost like, Dude, I can see it in you. Before we even talk. You got that code off the rack at Burlington. I swear you can do better than this. Come on, now   Garrett Gunderson  23:17    30 years ago, 30 years ago too. You know, it doesn't even fit anymore.   Keith Weinhold  23:23   Well, you know, I recently dedicated a complete episode Garrett to the way I put it is that the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. Now, there are some good things to be said for delayed gratification, I think, especially when you're younger, or you're just starting out in the working world, and you just tried to cover rent for your apartment and you don't have much else. Delaying some gratification is good. You need to form capital. You need to get liquid. I try to avoid saying stacking savings, because that gets people in the mindset of becoming super savers sometimes, and they miss out on returns. But what I mean about the risk of delayed gratification, being denied gratification, if it's taken too great of an extent, is, you know, I'm talking about the guy where, when he was 24 he used to say, Oh, I'm going to visit the Galapagos Islands someday. That's what I want to do. But you can just tell by the time you talk to the dude, when he's 48 he begins to use the past tense for things he wanted to do, for example, then he might start saying, Oh, well, I guess I never did visit the Galapagos Islands. You know, you can tell with people when they use the past tense, and that's when you know that their future is not bigger than their past, and a lot of that is the reflection of their financial status.   Garrett Gunderson  24:40   I got married at age 23 and the first two years, well, it was really like the first year and a half, maybe I was just such a miser. I gave my wife a $400 a month budget for an apartment, and we found out that there's places you don't want to live in Utah. I didn't know it, but she's like, is this what you want? And I was like, This doesn't feel like a safe neighborhood. And then you. Know, I was like, All right, maybe $600 I was still kind of really scarce. And my parents were like, Why don't you just live in our basement, rent free, and my wife's like, sex free. If you think that's where we're living, I'm gonna live in my parents basement, you know? Because I just thought money was something to save. So I saved me over 50% of my income. And a lot of people were like, that's amazing. Congratulations. Great job. And so I felt really good about it, and then I realized that my business wasn't growing as fast as this other person my age. I met him at an event, and a year later, he was doing better. And I was like, Dude, what's going on? I could hear it in your voice. I could hear like, you're just a different person. He goes, Oh, I'm doing two things. One, I just hired this guy, Steve D'Annunzio, and he changed my entire life. And I was like, I need to meet him. He's like, he happens to be here in Vegas. He's from Rochester. Introduced me. I hired him as my coach right away. I'm hearing all these people talk about strategic coach at the same event, and they had a booth. So I signed up for Strategic Coach, which meant I had to part with some of my money. Think it was $7,500 I hired Steve as a one on one mentor, and all of a sudden I was investing in myself, yeah. And I broke free from those chains of like, reduction and restriction into the game of production. And then I even had a situation where a woman called me out at the same event. This was a life changing event where she's like, I wonder what it's like living in a financial prison you built for your wife. It's like, Oh, see, that's what happened. I thought I was responsible, and building that responsibility that's actually building walls. And when I came home for that event, my wife and I started looking for our home. Within a few months, we found one. I bought a home. It was very easily within my means. I basically made as much as I paid for this house that we loved. We lived there for nine years. We built so many memories. You know, we had our two kids while we were there, I started host study groups, and that year, I grew my income by $170,000 with the coaching of strategic coach, Steve dnunzio And this woman, Nancy, calling me out. The next year, it grew by even more because the skills started to compound. I decided from that moment forward, I would spend at least $40,000 a year, which I might be able to reach for some people, but at least $40,000 a year on mentors. Is a guy named Alan. He writes my meal plans and my workouts, and I'm at 10% body fat because he knows exactly what they do. I do what he says. It was worth this $10,000 investment, because now I pay attention what I pay for, and I look at like if I'm my greatest asset, how can I create more energy? How can I create more value? How can I feel better about myself? How can I show up the very best version of I am, so I can deliver the most to the other people. And so I've always just been in amazing groups. I just got back from two different events in Beverly Hills around amazing people, learning incredible things that allow me to grow. I haven't spent a huge amount of money on a mentor last year to figure out something that I hadn't been able to figure out to this point. It's the same thing I did to become a speaker, to become a writer or even learn how to sell or market, you've got to invest in the skill, not just in the savings account. You grow yourself first, and then you grow your money. If you starve yourself out because you're in that miserly mindset, you're going to stunt your growth and never be fully fulfilled.   Keith Weinhold  27:56   You're your own best investment. And yes, this stuff is the varying definition of investing in yourself. Don't live below your means. Grow your means and all of that.   Garrett Gunderson  28:05   Grow your means and be more efficient within your means. I mean, the best way I know how to save is not overpay on tax, which 98% of business owners are doing that today. You know, don't overpay on interest, because you either restructure your loans, renegotiate your interest rates, reallocate underpouring funds to pay it off, or you remove investment drag. A lot of people have unnecessary fees and hidden commissions that drag on their investments. Or just design your insurance properly so it's more efficient. Those four i's, IRS, interest, investments and insurance show you how to keep more of what you make, take some of that money, build up your foundation so you have a peace of mind fund, so you have staying power, at least six months of liquidity and then invest more into yourself or learn how to create cash flow. This is the game the wealthy play. But the poor middle class, they think it's about paying off a mortgage and funding the retirement plan, and they will argue about it until it's too late, when they get there and now their homes paid off, but the property taxes are higher than their mortgage was 20 years ago, you know. Or they have home maintenance they have to take care of, or inflation has destroyed the value. Like if someone were to put away 100 grand and they wait for 30 years if they got 10% which the market did the last 30 years, if you reinvest dividends, they're going to have right around $1.7 million but if they have to pay 2% in fees, fiduciary fees, 12 b1 fees, which are marketing fees for the fund expense ratio, you know, the fees of maybe a retirement plan, and they now have 2% fees. It only goes to 1.1 million. Huge difference. And that 1.1 million if we account for inflation, even if we said inflation was low, like 2.7% over that 30 years. Well, by the time we pay for inflation and tax, guess what? The purchasing power value is like, 300 grand $300,000 that's a problem, and it's because they didn't learn to create cash flow. It's because they didn't learn to invest in themselves. It's because they relied completely on a market they don't control. I'm not saying the market is completely something to avoid. I'm saying we go in sequence. How do you grow your income for. First, then how do you keep more of the income you make with? You know, financial savvy and plugging leaks. Then learn to grow your money, but maybe growing your money. For some I like to think of like three dimensional assets, like real estate's three dimensional. It can grow in equity, it can create cash flow, and it has tax advantages. But my business is three dimensional, the more my business creates cash flow, without me, the more equity it has, and that business has major tax advantages. So most people are one dimensional, pay off a loan, put a money in retirement account. That's the poor, middle class. Wealthy people build a system where they've got three dimensional assets, equity, cash flow and tax savings. And that is a complete game changer, because then they can employ the buy borrowed I strategy, if you have assets like, you know, an individual stock, or if you have assets, like a piece of real estate or a business, you could borrow against it. There's no tax on that five for life, right? You keep refinancing. Or you can even do charitable trust to avoid the taxes upon the sell of those paying no tax when there's gains. Or you can pass it on to the next generation with a step up in basis, which means they get it at the full value and not have to pay the difference. And if you have life insurance, the life insurance will pay back the loan that tax free as well. So buy, borrow, die. I mean, it's a completely different thought process of defer taxes. If you defer taxes, I get it. You could do a Roth IRA or Roth 401. K Sure, that'll let you put after tax money in and grow it. But where's the cash flow? What's the underlying investment? How does it help you create financial independence? How does it help you does it help you grow your skills to become a better investor? We've been taught to be lazy, not that people are lazy. We've just been taught to be lazy with our money. We've been fed a narrative. I don't have the time, I don't have the skill, I don't have the interest, but I want to have it, so I just hand it over. And who do we hand it over to Keith Wall Street. Wall would you trust Wall Street? Like you flew to Frankfurt not long ago. Would you get on Wall Street airlines where they're like, hey, sometimes our planes go up, sometimes they go down. That would brand, and he'd feel inspired, right? Would you go to Wall Street, you know, hospital? Or like, hey, he lost one of your kidneys, and by loss, we stole it and resold it. You know, like, Wall Street doesn't have a brand. That's good. It's boiler room. It's Wolf of Wall Street. It's the movie Wall Street with Michael Douglas. You know, greed is good like yet that's what people put their money into. And you can go to any downtown and any major city, and guess who has the biggest buildings, insurance companies, banks and Wall Street investment companies. So you're taking the size of your home and shrinking it to build up their building and put money in their pocket. And their story is, it's because they're Ivy League, they're smart. They try to make it complicated, but you don't have to know most of the things you think you need to know about finance. The foundational things are important, how to protect your assets, how to design insurance, to transfer risk, how to have some liquidity, how to automate your savings. And then you focus like Warren Buffett would teach. He said, You know how people would become a better investor if they only had 20 investments they could make over their lifetime? He says, I don't diversify because I'm in the know. He's like, I'm a good businessman, therefore I'm a good investor and I'm a good investor because I'm a good businessman. I don't separate the two. Yeah, most people think he's a stock market investor. No, he buys out the companies in the stock market. Rarely does he have minority stakes in it. He does have some of that, maybe with Coca Cola and apple, but he bought a lot of companies outright, whether it was Geico, whether it was See's Candies, whether it was like he buys these companies, he's so far outperformed the stock market by billions of dollars from an index fund like what he has, versus someone that put the same money in an index fund, Warren has billions more from his investments than the person that put all their money in the index fund, even if it was the same amount. It's completely about strategy, not about luck.   Keith Weinhold  33:30   Yeah, it's the Andrew Carnegie, put all your eggs in one basket and then watch your basket. Yeah? Watch that basket like a hawk. Totally. Yeah. I mean, stacks mutual funds, they have what I call those five simultaneous drags. If you think you're getting a 10% long term return over time, subtract out inflation, emotion, taxes, fees and volatility. What do you have left? Not much. But there's no friction there. It is just the easiest thing to do ever since decades ago, 401 K contributions begin to become automated throughout your paycheck, sometimes even automatically, automated   Garrett Gunderson  34:04   values your permission opt out. It's easy. You have to opt out, right? It's Big Brother. You don't know what's best for you. And by the way, how crazy are four one K's. Part of the reason the market has gone up in value is because people consistently fund for one case, whether the market's going up or down, they're told $8 cost average. So that's artificially fueling the market. When we see the numbers, there's a buffet index, and it's like 2.9 times higher than what he's comfortable with, with the stock market, because of how overinflated the market is, partially due to inflation, partially because people put money in. But let's remember, why did 401, K's even come about? Because pensions failed. And by the way, these pensions failed and they had world class money managers managing these multi billion dollar pensions, but they didn't know about something called disinvesting, or didn't know enough about it. When the market goes down and pension money is owed, they still have to pull money out of the pension to pay the employee which disinvests, which pulls more money out of the account. So now instead of just being 10% down, they might be 17% down. And so even if the market comes back 10% it's 10% of only 83% of the money. So not even back to square one. And if it goes down a second year in a row, they're in real trouble. It starts to chip away at the principal, and they can't recover. And that happened to pensions, and they said, Oh, here, we can't handle these. We're going bankrupt. We're going to get rid of pensions. You take care of it. Well, guess what? Vanguard says, the average balance in a 401, k right now is $148,000 how someone's supposed to live on $148,000 even if you could get 10% that's $14,800 a year taxable, that's not going to do it. Even if you have a million dollars, where are you going to put the million dollars to get the return without risking it going down? Maybe you're going to be in treasuries at 5% that's $50,000 taxable per year. You're a millionaire on paper, but living poorly. That's why I'm here to call these things out. I think that my book Killing Sacred Cows, which was my original New York Times bestseller, which is probably how we met. Yeah, I rewrote it. I rewrote it, rereleased it in 2024 and I'll give people the audiobook. They just have to DM me on Instagram. Garrett B Gunderson and DM the word cows with Keith's name, cows and Keith or Keith and cows. I'll hook you up with the book for free, so you can learn about the nine financial myths. We're talking about some of them here, but there's also some comedy in there, so they can laugh after each chapter. I threw some comedy in there. You know, if you like my comedy, I'm not the funniest comedian. I'm just the funniest money comedian. That's the reality.   Keith Weinhold  36:33   When we had the very inventor of the 401 k plan, Ted benna, come onto the show, he revealed to us that when 401 K plans rolled out, they were first called salary reduction plans. They had to scrap that name in order to foster participation. But reducing your salary is still principally what it does to you. You got to think about it that way and blow up some of these myths. But Garrett, you've already given a lot of great technical information about what someone can do, how someone can think differently. Bigger pictures, we're sort of winding down here. You know, when I'm thinking about this whole delayed versus denied gratification thing, how do you meter it out right throughout your life? I mean, what's your earmark your family legacy? How do you meter it out, right so you don't have too much or too little at the end of your life?   Garrett Gunderson  37:15   I like to see this strategy of, like, what would the rockfellers do that I wrote about is, you know, the beginning before that strategy is you pay yourself first, which has always been around Richest Man in Babylon. Tons of books talk about it. My argument is you want to pay yourself at least 15% of your personal income, off the top, to a separate account. Once you get six months in that account, now you start to invest that money, but you build your stability with that peace of mind. And we want 15% because the luxury once enjoyed becomes a necessity. So you want more money in the future, not the future, not less propensity to you know, there's also, just like planned obsolescence, things break down. You have to repair them. Technological change, we're buying new technology that doesn't even exist. I have now subscriptions to a bunch of AI things that help me out, right? But I'm spending more money. There's also taxes, those could go up in the future, or 38 trillion in debt as we film this, which is a crazy number. And there's also inflation. If we give 3% to each of those five factors, that's 15% now again, use the four i's, IRS, interest, investments and insurance to find that money, not just budgeting. But then here's the magic. At least 3% of your income should go to a separate account called the Living wealthy account. That's your guilt free spending, value based spending account, so you enjoy some money along the way. These are the things that are the finer things in life that people might say are wasteful. You know, there's a book called unreasonable hospitality that talks about this, 11 Madison Avenue was the number one rated restaurant in the world. And, you know, will who wrote the book talked about they had 3% of their budget to just go wild on their customers dream making money, right? So to create the special experience in the restaurant, and even the bear, I think was season three, showed some of that process of how they do that. So I highly recommend taking a certain percentage. You get to enjoy along the way. It could be higher than 3% but start there, and you're going to feel better, you're going to have different energy, you're going to show up in a different way. And then from there, I just believe in having trust, so that your money's outside of your estate, and protecting financial predators so you own nothing but control everything. And I personally use life insurance. I use just standard over, you know, like basically properly structured, optimally funded whole life, so that death benefit will come in after I die. It allows me to spend more of my money and then have it replenished so I can enjoy more of my money along the way, because I know that death benefit will be there for my wife or even for my family trust after I'm gone, so I don't disinherit the people that I love.   Keith Weinhold  39:31   Garrett Gunderson, he can take you through these steps, which he calls financially fit, to financially independent, and then finally to financially free. Tell us a little more about that going through those steps.   Garrett Gunderson  39:44   So financial fitness means your financial house is in order. You've got everything handled properly, car insurance, homeowners, liability, disability, medical life insurance, your corporate structures as a business owner, how you pay yourself, your taxes the last three years and move. Moving forward your investments. It's like, you know what it's going on. You've improved your cash flow, and you're dialed in. You're as safe as you could possibly be. Then financial independence is, how can we create income, especially from a business that comes in when you don't, that's people, that's processes, that's technology, so that you can be involved, but you don't have to be involved. This is the part most people miss, yeah, and I think it's crazy. A lot of people have this notion they're just going to work so hard so they can sell their business one day, I'm like, What about just creating a business that you love so much you don't want to sell it? What about giving up the things that are burning you out and have the employees that can take care of that so you do the things that you love and then just enjoy life along the way, take some little trips, take some time off and come back in. The business grows up when you're away, they learn how to do things without you, and then you can still create value into that business. I sold the business in 2021 and really regretted it, because I kind of was so removed from the business. I kind of felt like it lost its soul and I didn't feel connected to it. So this time around, I started a business in July of 2024 I'm like, I'm only going to work with the P with the people I love, building things that I love, and I'm not going to let myself get burned out by doing too much. We're going to take two weeks in Hawaii coming up here in April, just enjoy some time together as a family. We do quarterly family retreats with my wife and kids. We do traditions with my family up at my cabin, like I want to have this great life where it's blurs the lines between work and play. I have a little quote from someone else that talks about that art of life is blurring the lines between work and play, but also just having complete play sometimes that there is no work. So I come back refreshed, relaxed, rejuvenated and ready to create. And so really, that financial independence gives you permission to swing for the fences and what you do, knowing your foundation is handled, knowing that your lifestyle is covered, from assets to create cash flow gives you work optional freedom. But instead of retiring, think, what could your biggest impact be like? Create the life you don't want to retire from. Create a vision so compelling you can dedicate your life to it and find that the win is actually in the work, not just the outcome. I think that is the elegance of we win when we play, and when we have more play in our life. We don't try to escape from something. And when you start something, you might have to do things you hate, but you can eventually delegate it, and then life becomes great. I mean, one of my early coaches, Dan Sullivan, who I mentioned, a strategic coach. He's in his 80s, still behemoth of creating value in the in the market. To listen to him, you know, he's phenomenal. He's made such a huge difference in my life, and he has no intent of retiring. He just gets smarter every year, adds more value, builds more infrastructure, and he's the one that taught me the merit of free days, just taking time off, taking time away. So, yeah, that's financial independence. Is cash flow, and then financial freedom is a state of mind. It's when money is no longer the primary reason or excuse you would do or not do something. It's a consideration, but it's no longer the consideration means that you have a healthy relationship with money. Money is an asset and an ally, not an enemy. You don't come from a place of scarcity. You come from a place of abundance. You can be more present with your family and doing what you do without feeling distracted. I think wealth is our ability to be present, not necessarily how much money we have in a bank account. I think we have a good amount of money in a bank account, and we can be present. That is like true wealth.   Keith Weinhold  43:12   It harkens back to the John D Rockefeller, he who works all day has no time to make money. Rockefeller would have said, you can architect a wealth plan if your head is down on the assembly line, that means gradually move your offer. It's from trading your time for dollars over to owning assets that pay you to own them. Garrett's comedy special is called the American Ream. There's no D in that word, R, E, A, M. You can look that up, Garrett. It's been enlightening as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Garrett Gunderson  43:43   Hey man, good to be back.   Keith Weinhold  43:51   Always. A lively conversation with Garrett, besides some great mindset perspective, he's really good at saving you tax and setting you up with asset protection. Though he's not as real estateish as me, he's pretty savvy. For example, He's aligned on the fact that, for example, say you have an 80k debt. Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that it makes sense for you to pay that off sometimes it does, but what happens to your net worth anytime you pay off an 80k debt, well, let's see. You've reduced your asset side by 80k and you've reduced your debt side by 80k so your net worth is the same, and retiring the debt means that you might have lost leverage, lost cash flow and lost tax advantages, all at the same time on Instagram, send a DM with the two words, Keith Cows to Garrett B Gunderson, and he'll hook you up with his book for free next week on the show, we go deep on does America really have a housing shortage with an expert analyst. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.    Speaker 4  45:01   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  45:29   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth. Building, get richeducation.com  

Keith digs into what's really going on with apartments now that values in many markets have dropped 20–40%. You'll hear why larger multifamily properties have been hit so much harder than one-to-four unit rentals, and what that means for both current owners and new buyers. "The Apartment King," Brad Sumrok, joins the conversation to share how recent economic shifts, financing structures, and market forces have reshaped the apartment landscape—and why he believes we may be near a key turning point in the cycle. You'll also learn how investors are approaching deals differently today, what makes certain markets and property types more attractive right now.  Resources: Learn more about Brad here. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/594 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold us. Apartment Building values have fallen 2030, even, 40% over the past few years. Investors lost millions. What are all the reasons that it happened? And when will apartments turn around? I'm joined by the apartment king today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:26   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold, writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:09   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com you   Corey Coates  1:40   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:59   Welcome to GRE from Monterrey, California to Monterrey, Mexico and across 188 nations worldwide. America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone has got his slack. John, act back on track for another wealth building week with you. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education, and I'm still not wearing a pair of Dockers. We all know that the one to four unit space single family homes, up to four plexes have held under their values despite soured affordability, but five plus unit apartment buildings are a drastically different story. We're going to talk about just how much value they've lost recently, and the reasons why it's about more than just the interest rates doubling and tripling that began in 2022 Today's guest is an apartment educator. His students have had both losses and wins over time. I'll ask about both, because adversity is where you get the lessons now today, you might buy an apartment building at a steep discount compared to what it sold for five years ago. And who might you buy an apartment from today, it might not be the type of seller that you're thinking about because of owners defaulting you might now be buying it from a bank that had to basically repossess it. Yeah, you might try to buy it from a lender at 60% of the loan amount. Well, a lender doesn't want to do a 40% write down, so they're going to try to get more and see. That's how this could practically look today for an apartment owner that survived the crisis and is still standing today. They're asking themselves, now, why would I sell at a discount if I don't have to? So they're probably going to try to hold on. And then, of course, the tenants in these apartments don't know that any of this is going on now. I own a lot of single family rental homes myself, also apartment buildings in the one to one and a half million dollar range is where I've played, and often that ends up being eight to 12 units, because in that space, I don't need partners to invest in assets of that size. One to $2 million is also small enough so that you're not competing with institutional money and other players. Today, I'll tell you what I did with some of those buildings myself when interest rates reset about four years ago, and before you and I wrap up the show today, I've got something to tell you about what's coming in future. GRE episodes here stuff that's really unexpected as the apartment King waits in the wings. One last thing to tell you about, like I mentioned to you recently, investors say that they want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Once certainty arrives, the opportunity. Is gone.    Keith Weinhold  5:01   Our GRE live event last Thursday was a success. It is about how central Florida is the most compelling housing market right now, with the builder offering rate buy downs as low as 3.75% and, you know, I just ran the numbers on something, and I can hardly believe this. All right, right. Now owner occupied mortgage rates are near 6% this means investment property rates are almost 7% with the rate by down to 4% here's how your cash flow looks with a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on a 300k loan with a 7% rate, your p and i payment is 1996 at a 4% rate. It's just 1432, this is a reduction of $564 per month, a whopping payment difference. That's really the difference between treading water and stacking cash flow on these brand new build properties that we're talking about here in Central Florida. So talking about opportunity and certainty, that is a big measure of both. Yeah, before I ran the numbers, I didn't realize that the spread was this wide. With high demand for these properties, the builder does have some more available, a long term fixed rate of around 4% it should be up for you now you can see the limited time replay of GRE, freshest live event at grewebinars.com, in case you want to look into This again, grewebinars.com let's discuss the apartment market. Foreign apartment building values have fallen at 20% 30% even 40% over the past few years, depending on the market that they're in today, we're going to learn how bad it is, why it happened, and if that actually creates an opportunity here in the late 2020s, decade, our guest is known as the apartment king. He is the number one nationally known educator and mentor for apartment investing. He started with a bang in 2002 by making his first ever real estate investment, not a four Plex like I did, but a 32 unit apartment building, and he's now owned and invested in over 11,000 units and over 1 billion in assets under management. He's received awards like the naa independent owner of the year, and he's the star of the massively popular in person events that he puts on, which you'll learn about soon. Hey, it's been several years. Welcome back to the show. Brad sumrock,   Brad Sumrok  7:46   hey, Keith. It's really good to be on again. Nice to be here.   Keith Weinhold  7:50   Brad and I were together in person last month, and we also talked physical fitness. Then Brad is one of the fittest guys you'll ever meet in person. He just looks fantastic. We want to hear about your apartment forecast shortly. Brad, let's talk about the hard stuff. First, you've endured adversity since we last had you here several years ago. Tell us about that.   Brad Sumrok  8:14    Well, look, I mean, I think anyone that's been serious about investing in apartments over the last five years. And I'll also say it this way, anyone who did a deal and say 21 the middle of 21 till probably the end of 2022 it's very likely that that property is worth less today than than it was when we bought it. So that, in itself, has created, you know, adversity, because I got into the business in 2002 and the market went up until 2008 and we went through a downturn in 2008 nine and 10, as is, I'm sure you're aware. And then the market went up again until around 2021, mid year. And then, due to so many reasons, and I could go into those reasons, but let me just just cut to the chase. That you alluded to is we had another downturn, and so the downturn, you know, impacts property values, it impacts confidence, it impacts investor appetite to do deals. It impacts just about everything related to the business, on the investment side, and the other business that I'm in, which is the seminars, the events and the mentoring. So it's been a big downturn, and we could go into those, you know, into the reasons why, and I'm sure you'd like to know my take on that. But now is a great time, because things are recovering, and one of the things Tony Robbins teaches Keith is pattern recognition. It's like I've been through two downturns, and I could see the patterns, and it occurs to me that we're at or near the bottom of a cycle. So like it's also a good time to be gearing up.   Keith Weinhold  9:50   Now, many realize but for those uninitiated on this, the one to four unit space really didn't feel much pain starting in 2022 so much of that is time. Two people get long term fixed interest rate debt on the one to four unit property, but it's shorter term debt on five plus unit apartment buildings. So when interest rates went up, people soon had to pay those higher rates. They were underwater. That's really the genesis of so much of the apartment building pain.   Brad Sumrok  10:19   Well, and I would say, look, it was, I'm going to throw a bunch of things at you here. So we had the pandemic, right? And during the pandemic, people got paid to stay home from work, right? The government printed, what, $5 trillion worth of money, right? And so that kicked off what became a period of, like, very high inflation. And you know, the published number was 9% but I think a lot of people experience certain items that were a lot more than 9% like, for example, for sure, in 2022 when we bought a 286 unit property, you know, we were able to replace all the appliances inside of a unit in The kitchen, you know, for $1,800 and even today it's like $3,200 so that's a little bit more than 9% and so we had that. So we had the printing of money, we had inflation, we had variable rate debt. Why did people do variable rate debt? The first thing I'll say is there is a place for variable rate debt. But what happened in 2021 and 2022 is the fixed rate lenders, which are typically the government sponsored agencies Fannie and Freddie. They were still lending money, but because of their criteria for lending, if you would go with one of those loans, you would get like 50% leverage the shorter term lenders that would give you the three year loans, you can still get like 75 to 80% leverage. So the vast amount of people that were buying anything in 2021 and 2022 I mean, I'm not just talking about myself. I'm talking about people with 2030, 4050, 70,000 doors all over the country, they were buying with short term debt. And historically, short term debt performs at or better than long term debt. I mean, think about it, when you get a long term, 10 year fixed rate loan and multifamily you have prepayment penalties. You know, when the market's constantly going up like it did, from 2012 to 2022 you could get that fixed term loan. You could pay it off early, you could pay the seven figure prepayment penalty, and you could still make lots and lots of money, and that's what people were doing. So when you bake in the prepayment penalties on long term debt, you know short term debt is oftentimes the better option. Well, nobody saw the Fed raising rate 16 times in 12 months. And look, I don't care what anybody says, Nobody predicted it. If they had predicted it, they would be probably the richest person in the world right now, right nobody saw a comment like, there may have been some people that said, hey, yeah, this is going to happen, or this is going to happen. But what actually happened with the Fed rates over a very short period of time was unprecedented. Unprecedented means it never happened before. So it's not something you could anticipate or something anyone can model. Okay? And so what that did is most of us had what's called an interest rate cap, which is an insurance policy that if the rates go up too much, that yours is capped. But the problem with those rate caps is they're only good for like, two years, right? So we're buying these deals in 2021 and we're getting short term debt, which is a three year debt. And in two years, in 2023 the rate cap expires, and now the rates are 9% instead of 3% and when we bought the deal, the rate cap insurance was $40,000 and now it's a million dollars. And so you're in a very awkward, unfriendly financial situation. And it wasn't just that. So it wasn't just inflation, it wasn't just interest rates. And many of us sung belt markets, specifically Texas and Florida, which historically have been some of the best markets to invest in, because of migration and no taxes, and then landlord and business friendly environments. Well, these states also suffered a lot of named storms, with, you know, hurricanes and wind storms and hail storms and so in these markets, at the same time, we had rising rates. At the same time, we had massive inflation. Now we also have insurance rates doubling or even tripling in some occasions. And then the final thing was, during the pandemic, a lot of the multifamily projects that were in the middle of being built, these development projects, they all slowed down. People couldn't work. And so back in 2020, or after we're fully recovered from the pandemic, some of these markets, like Nashville and Austin and Dallas and Houston and Phoenix, they got deluged Keith with new supply coming on, like a disproportionate amount of new supply. So there's like five. Five things that contributed to multifamily being really tough in the last few years. And so it wasn't just people with short term debt that had challenges. It was probably just about anybody that bought a deal within an 18 month timeframe that I outlined before that just really experienced challenges, and some of those people are still in deals, right? And so let's just take a deal that's, you know, a $10 million deal with a $7 million loan. Well, that deal right now might be only worth 7 million, yeah, and that's the opportunity. So the owner that has that deal may get punched in the face, so to speak, you know, by the market, and they may lose their equity in that deal, but the borrower coming in, or the buyer coming in, like one of my mentees right now, had a deal that was listed at 11 million, and he's picking it up for seven, which is, like, at or below the current loan value. So one buyer group's loss is the new buyer group's opportunity, if that makes sense   Keith Weinhold  16:03    right? 100% there's nothing unusual at all about the mortgage rate levels that began to go higher about four years ago. The unusual part, and Brad has touched on it, is the rate of increase, with mortgage rates doubling or tripling in a short period of time, within about a year or so, but yeah, it's a great point. It's about more than the mortgage rates. It's about increasing insurance costs and increasing expenses of all types, like you talked about with the appliances there, and then, even if you were able to weather all that as an apartment building owner, with all of the supply coming on to the market, when supply exceeds demand, we know what happens to price, and we also know that you can't raise rents very much with all of this supply coming on the market, but the supply of new apartment buildings, that inflow, that wave, is beginning to die down, because builders got the memo quite a while ago that they need to stop building at such a fast pace in places like Florida and Texas and you know, Brad, there are a lot of asset classes that have been beaten up lately. We can always point to a few. You can look at Bitcoin or nfts or even commercial office space. Now those assets might bounce back, but they don't have to, because no human needs those things. But I expect apartments to bounce back because having a place to live is a primordial Maslow and human need. It's almost inevitable. In fact, shelter is at the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So a bounce back has almost got to happen. Yeah.   Brad Sumrok  17:46   Look, it's becoming the big word right now in politics. Right is affordability. And so when you look at affordability, if you take a median priced home in this country of say, $400,000 I don't know if that's the actual median, but maybe it's around 400 420,000 100, $420,000 yes, to buy that home. And who's going to buy a $420,000 home? It's going to be a working class family making 60 to 70,000 a year, right? They could rent a median priced apartment unit for $1,800 a month, or they could pay a 20% or a 10% down payment on a $400,000 homes, and they need 40 to 80,000 down right, or maybe less, but they still need a down payment and that p i, t i, the principal, interest, tax and insurance is going to be around $3,100 okay, so there's a $1,300 per month gap, and that's a big, big gap for that working class family. And so where are they going to live? Like we're becoming more and more of a renter nation? Keith, and the statistics that I read say that only 27% of American families can even qualify to get a mortgage, yeah, on a $400,000 home. So we're becoming more and more and more of a nation of renters by necessity. And so the demographics like look, all markets are not equal. You got to know what's going on in your market. But there are markets, ie locations, geographies that have even a higher affordability gap. You know, some markets have a 2000 a month or a $2,500 a month affordability gap. So you're going to find more and more people renting in these markets.   Keith Weinhold  19:37   Yes, there is a premium to ownership opening up that gap, and that's why we have this wave of renters that's really already begun. In about the last year, the American homeownership rate has fallen from 66% to 65% 1% doesn't sound like much, but that already means that we have 1.3 million new renters. We're going to talk to Brad some more, including about. His apartment market forecast you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is apartment King. Brad sumrock, more when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,    Keith Weinhold  20:09   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre,   Keith Weinhold  20:45   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep. Text their freedom. Coach, directly. Again. 1-937-795-8989,   Hal Elrod  21:58   this is Hal Elrod, author of The Miracle Morning, and listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  22:13   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. We're talking about a sector we have not talked about very much lately because it's been in rather moribund condition, but we are beginning to turn the corner where there are more opportunities in apartment building investing, because it's been beaten down an awful lot. And Brad, that plays right in to your apartment forecast. So tell us about some of the highlights of your apartment forecast.   Brad Sumrok  22:38   Yeah, sure. And one of the things that I want to share with you, Keith, is that, you know, back in the peak of the market, the market peaked, say, at the end of 21 early 22 there were so many investors that were in multifamily or that wanted to be in multifamily. And the other thing that caused this so called, you know, downturn that I didn't mention before is, let's take this $10 million deal. If a property was listed at $10 million you'd literally have 30 to 40 buyer groups pursuing that deal, bidding up the price. Yeah. And so a $10 million Listing would sell for 11 and a half million Okay, now what I'm seeing is that same $10 million deal might sell for a seven to 8 million and you might be the only buyer going after the deal. Wow. And how do I know? Because you said, like, I run a an investor community and and I have active multifamily buyers, and I coach them, and I look at their deals, and this is what's happening. And the other reason I know is I sold two of my deals personally in 2025 and both of the deals that I sold, I bought in 2015 where we had 10 year fixed rate debt. So we didn't sell because we had a three year loan. We needed to sell because we had a 10 year loan due. And look, first thing I'll say is I made money, because over that 10 year period, values did go up. They peaked in 2022 and they came back down that because I bought it so long ago. That's the one lesson that I think people also want to understand, is over the long term, the values always tend to go up, but there are short term ups and downs that one would need to be aware of. But when I sold these two deals like I didn't have many buyers one deal in particular. I mean, I had eight buyers going after the deal, but only one was anywhere close to what I wanted. So I was negotiating with myself, you know, telling the buyer and his broker, hey, you know the other guys are here, and you got to come up on price and you got to come up on terms. But truthfully, I was bluffing, because I didn't have anybody that was coming up on price or coming up on terms. And so part of why I'm answering this way is when you look at the forecast, one thing that that I want people to know is that those. Of us that are in the business now and that have our pencils up, and we're underwriting deals, and we're making offers, like I used to teach Keith, don't make lowball offers, because you'll develop a reputation of being that guy or that borrower or that buyer that submits lowball offers, right? And word will get around in that market? Well, right now, like low ball offers are expected, and I would encourage people, let's just say you make an offer that whatever the deal pencils out to. So if you know how to underwrite deals correctly, and they're offering 10 million as a listing price, and you're coming up at seven or 7.5 don't be bashful to make the offer, and you may be the only buyer in the game. So that's one thing is like the competition that I'm seeing right now on the buyer side is not a lot of competition, and that's definitely shifted to a buyer's market. So people need to know that. The other thing I would say, on the macro level, is there's still a lot of uncertainty out there, and the uncertainty is kind of becoming like what I would call a new normal. You know? I'll speak for myself. When Trump was elected and at the end of 2024 I thought it was going to be amazingly well for all of us real estate investors, right? And there are some things that have been like the big, beautiful bill that restores 100% bonus depreciation like this is a really good thing, but you know, the tariffs, the immigration policies, some of the things that he's doing, you know, they have mixed impact for us and our in the economy and in real estate and in multifamily. And the thing is, when he first started doing that again, like lenders, they didn't know how to price debt, like, what's going to happen with tariffs, what's going to happen with ice what's going to happen with immigration, you know? But now that we're a year in to his second term, I can tell you a couple things. Debt is back. Lenders are lending. They're confident. Lenders are issuing debt like you can get 70 to 75% of your acquisition funded by a commercial lender. The government agencies are lending. Freddie Mac is lending. Fannie Mae is lending, and they have a mandate to lend 20% more money in 2026 than they did in 2025 so that bodes well for people that want to get, you know, affordable workforce housing, which is my specialty, also known as Class B and Class C housing. So the lenders are lending like, there's a lot of debt out there. One of the challenges is the equity. There's a lot of institutional equity. But if you're going to the retail investor who got into the business three to five years ago. They don't want to hear about your next deal right now, they're wondering about, hey, what about the deals that I'm in? Right? So one of the things that I'm doing, Keith is, and I think, you know, this is like, you know, I build up a huge investor community from 2012 to 2022 and I did it by traveling the country, speaking at conferences, sponsoring trade shows, talking about the benefits of investing in apartment buildings, how it changed my life, how it enabled me to retire from a six figure income in just three years, and how I've helped many, many other people Do the same, and also just sharing experience today, every asset class, every 10 to 15 years is going to go through a correction. And so where we're at now. And I wasn't the only one on the forecast. I brought in John Chang who is the senior intelligence officer at Marcus and millichep, one of the biggest commercial real estate firms in the country, and he presented about 20 or 30 slides that by and large were very bullish on where we're at in the market cycle. Why now is a great time to be looking at apartment buildings, a lot of the same things that I've been talking about. Prices are down. It's a buyer's market. We have a huge affordability issue. More and more people are becoming renters, and so what I'm committed to do, Keith and I don't know if I shared with you my travel schedule, like when we met each other last month, but I'm on the road every single week going to another city, talking about where I see us right now in the market, and why people should be looking at deals and making offers right now. Because to me, you know, Warren Buffett said it best. He's like, you want to be fearful when everybody else is being greedy, and you want to be greedy when everybody's being fearful. And right now, people are on the sidelines. They're waiting for some green light, like for the Wall Street Journal to come out and say, Hey, now's a good time, you know? I mean, look, Trump, just the point of the new Fed chair, right? And so we know interest rates are going to go down like that's one of his goals, and the guy that he appointed is going to lower rates. So we're looking at a future, a very near future, where we have lower rates, and lower rates is going to create more demand, again, for people that want to buy. I invest in apartments now, look, if you wait another year, I still think it's going to be a good time, but I think we have a better time right now.   Keith Weinhold  30:10   I sold one apartment building in 2022 for about $1 million and I sold another one of my apartment buildings in 2023 for about $1 million I had bought those in 2013 with 10 year balloon loans, so I was enjoying that nice fixed rate as late and as long as I could, until 2022, nine years and 2023, 10 years before the rate went up on me. But of course, my new buyer had to pay that rate, so it limited the amount that they could offer for it. However, to your point about investing for a long time horizon, I still had profits on those nine and 10 year holds, but yeah, to your point, Brad about the looser lending, this is huge. I read a summary of the latest national Multifamily Housing Council meeting, and one of the biggest takeaways that came out of that meeting is that there is abundant debt available. It's in increasingly attractive terms. And a lot of people think about mortgages, and they just think about the rates, and you should that's certainly important, but they don't think as much about the propensity for others to lend. How loose, or how tight are those standards? They're loose, yeah.   Brad Sumrok  31:25   And, I mean, look, the first deal I did in 2002 the interest rate was 6.35% the rates right now are less than that, you know, as of the date of this recording. So, you know, I always talk about a base case of a $10 million deal. It may seem large to you or to people listening, but like in my world of syndication, where we're not just looking at the real estate piece, but learning how to raise money to buy real estate so we could have a bigger property that's professionally managed and become a true business owner like Robert Kiyosaki talks about, do you want to be self employed? I tell my students, buy a six Plex. Do you want to own an apartment business by 60 units and hire a management company? So when I'm talking about this $10 million deal, you know, you can get a $7 million loan right now for probably in the mid 5% and it would be non recourse, and you could probably get three years of interest only, meaning for the first three years, you're going to have a higher cash flow. So like, this is a really good loan compared to 2021 when we could get 3% debt. It's not but remember that 3% loan was a short term loan. You know, it wasn't a 10 year fixed rate loan, it was a short term loan, and we all saw what happened with that when they raised rates so many times in such a short period. So the fixed rate debt is very competitive based on, like, the long term, 20 year average, and it's lower than it was when I started.   Keith Weinhold  32:55   Well, we've been talking about elements of your apartment market forecast, and of course, that's going to inform your Buy Box. Brad, you mentor students constantly and oftentimes we think about a Buy Box. We think about then in terms of geographic market, but as we look for an opportunity, we also might think about some other things in your Buy Box, for example, new build versus vintage build. So with all of this traveling you do, and you're in the markets, and you're informing students, and you're looking at students prospective deals as well. But tell us more about what a good buy box is for the near term in apartment buildings.   Brad Sumrok  33:36   Yeah. So look like what is in the buy box, right? So one is going to be your location. And so, you know, how do I select a good location? Just some tips and strategies around that is, I look for landlord and business friendly environments. In other words, if the tenant doesn't pay, do they get to stay or not, you know, so I like to be in market so that they don't pay, that we could legally, you know, not have them consume our product for a long period of time. So I also look at things like job growth and population growth, affordability gap. New supply is a percentage of inventory, you know, the new supply coming online in a diversified economy. So, like, you want to get your geographies nailed down. Like, where you buy matters, like, there's no substitute to I would rather pay more for a property in a location that meets that criteria than less for a property that doesn't. Yeah. So geography is important. You want to pick your property size, like, how many units, or what's the price point. Okay? And this is huge, because if you're gonna buy your own deal with your own money, which is another reason I prefer syndication. Let's say you have pick a number, 100,000 to invest. Like you can only buy a $300,000 property, two units somewhere, three units somewhere, you know. Or zero units somewhere, right, right? So if you have expanded your you know, your mind and your skill set to do a syndication 100,000 doesn't limit you to your own money, you know. And then I would say, Well, what is a great size for a first time syndicator is I would target somewhere around 60 to 80 units, and at 100,000 a unit, which is a ballpark price for maybe a nice B class property or high C Class property, and a market that meets the criteria that I outlined earlier. You know, you're looking at, say, a six to $8 million property. And so what you could do from there, Keith is, you could say, Okay, well, you know, this is why, like in my educational course, I use a $10 million property, because the numbers are easy. But even just say, Well, I'm going to do an $8 million property, you'd say, Okay, I need two to 3 million down, depending on the debt, right? And then I'm going to get a the balance in a loan, you know, because you could get a 70 to 75% loan. So then you ask, Well, where am I going to get to 2 million, right? If I have 100 I need $1.9 million and so then you got to start thinking about like, do I have access to people or work or in the neighborhood or at the community or at the church, you know, or do I go to masterminds and conferences and meetup groups like, where I saw you Keith last month, like, there's a lot of investors there with a lot of money, right? And some of them are looking to be passive investors. And so, you know, there's a whole nother conversation around, you know, raising capital. And if you can't raise capital, then you may want to bring in some people on your GP team that could help you raise capital, as long as you're following, like the SEC compliance and again, that's another discussion. That's the importance of having the buy box so you have your geography, your property size, your property class. You know, again, if you just want the new construction stuff. There's some people out there, like big name, famous people, that are highlighting their 800 unit a class deals that they're buying. And of course, like you or I that are just getting started, can't go buy that deal. And so why? You know the institutions are going after the large A class properties in the best areas. And so where I've made my niche Keith, and what I would recommend most people start is start with the older vintage properties, start with the 1970s properties, and then maybe work your way up to the 1980s and 1990s properties. And why is this is because the institutions don't want those properties, and they're still able to be professionally managed. Like, if you go and buy 100 unit C Class property, as long as it's not in a bad neighborhood with, like, high crime or whatever like that. Like, these are very honest, hard working, working class people that need a clean, safe and functional place to live, and you'll be able to get better returns on a C or A B class, also known as like the cap rate. And again, that's another discussion, but you'll be able to get a better return on an older vintage property than you would on a vintage property. And you're not competing with the institutions, but you're also not competing with the mom and pops, because the mom and pops are going to take that 100,000 they have and go buy a duplex. You know, they're not going to want to syndicate a deal. They're not going to want to have partners. They're not going to want to deal with the so called complexities of buying a company. And that's what buying an apartment community is, Keith, it's buying a company. You're buying a business that has an income stream already being generated those customers, they're called residents. They're called tenants, you know, but if you just go upstream from buying real estate or buying an apartment building, we're buying a cash flow producing business that's existing, that's in place, and then our job is to figure out how to run it better and more efficiently. You the   Keith Weinhold  39:04   You the listener, you might have access to, say, 500k in equity that's sitting in your existing properties. And some of these numbers that Brad and I are throwing around are rather large, $10 billion but one of the biggest epiphanies that I think your students have is that doesn't need to be much of your own money. We're talking about what's called the capital stack to take down a $10 million apartment building. Maybe you borrow seven and a half million of that. Maybe you raise 2 million of that from your other investors in the syndication, and then you put your 500k into the deal, and there you have $10 million in order to make that purchase. But yes, that does involve a learning curve and the SEC rules and all that. But the big takeaway here is you don't need much of your own money. You can leverage other people's money, even for the down payment. And Brad, you're also an expert at showing people how to pay almost. Zero tax, which is another discussion unto itself, but some of your students start with zero experience, and within a few short years, I mean, you've had hundreds of people that have either retired early or increased their net worth by over a million dollars. A lot of success stories,   Brad Sumrok  40:17   yeah, look, I mean, I started with no previous real estate investing experience. My experience was going to college, studying hard, getting decent grades, becoming an engineer, you know, being fired once, being laid off once, and reading Robert Kiyosaki books that motivated me to to go out and seek specialized education. And I think it was Jim Rohn that said formal education, like degree could get you a job, and specialized education like you can get in a conference or a mastermind or a mentorship program. And that's also how I started. I went to a weekend workshop back in 2001 and I bought the mentorship program. And boy, I'm glad I did, because, you know, that's how I got into my first 62 units. So you don't need to have experience. What you need to have is a powerful reason, a powerful why? Why do I want to be financially free? Like apartments is just a vehicle. I didn't choose apartments because I love departments. I choose departments because they cash flow, they go up in value, and you have amazing depreciation benefits.   Keith Weinhold  41:23   Yeah, I'm the same. I don't love apartments in a way. I don't love real estate. I love what these things do for me    Brad Sumrok  41:30   exactly. Yeah? So, like, you don't have to have experience. In the other category, of people that have come into my community that don't have apartment experience, a lot of them have real estate experience, Keith, that are doing, like, single family homes, short term rentals, or maybe smaller, multi unit deals. And they listen to a show like this, and they're like, huh, I want to transition from doing these smaller types of assets with my own money and self managing to scaling into a syndication.   Keith Weinhold  42:03   Brad has taken countless people from get rich education to got rich education. His core values are faith, finance, fitness, family and fulfillment. He is committed to helping people experience not just financial success, but personal fulfillment, purpose, contribution, freedom and Brad and his investor community have contributed over $1 million to charity. Is really the person you want to learn from if you want to think about going bigger with multifamily apartment buildings. This has been great, Brad. Let our audience know how they can connect with you and learn more?   Brad Sumrok  42:42   Yeah, sure. So I would say this is where I should just be very clear here, okay, but I'm gonna give a couple options, because that's what I'm so of course, there's a website which is my first and last name.com, B, R, A, D, S, U, M, R, O, k, for those of you on social media, I respond to my own social so you'll find me again. B, R, A, D, S, U, M, R, O, K, on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.   Keith Weinhold  43:13   Brad, it's been so valuable. It seems like American apartment buildings are in for redemption story here. It's been great having you back on the show.   Keith Weinhold  43:29   Brad and I both emphasize physical fitness, and we chatted about that a good bit when we were together last month. I think he looks better than me. To summarize, the reasons for this historic collapse in apartment building values. It was the combination of soaring interest rates, massive inflation, spiking insurance costs, construction soared, and it created an oversupply, and that oversupply still is not absorbed. In fact, according to the outlet apartment list, the National multifamily vacancy rate recently hit 7.2% that's the highest in the history of the index, which dates back to 2017 and that's chiefly due to apartment oversupply. Have apartments really hit the bottom? Brad just said, we're at or near the bottom, and it's a good time to be gearing up as far as what's coming. To give you an idea of new apartment supply, what takes about two years from construction start to completion. And now you can't just have all US apartment construction come to a complete stop. You have to keep people working. And there are almost 400 MSAs in the United States, so you couldn't coordinate a complete ceasing of construction across every area. So how about the level of new construction starts in apartment units today, and the way that HUD counts it is the number of units started in buildings of five plus units the recent peak. Was about 600,000 annually in 2023 and today it's closer to 400,000 there it is that slowing pace of new apartment construction. If you jump into multifam, be careful of properties with deferred maintenance, because understand that you have a lot of underfunded owners Now Brad can tell you specifically what to look out for his rat race to retirement event is March 28 and 29th in Dallas. It's a two day hands on workshop. You'll learn how to find apartment deals, how to underwrite deals, how to raise capital management and your exit. Discover how you can retire in five years or less by owning apartments again. His website is Brad sumrock.com    Keith Weinhold  45:49   coming up on future episodes here on the get rich education podcast. We're about to go on a run. The next stretch of GRE is loaded. We've got fresh topics with some game changing monolog content that I'm going to share with you new guests, distinguished experts, we're going to break down an innovative way to sell properties that could completely change how you think about your exit strategy of the 50 US states. I'm going to discuss some awful states to invest in, including ones with population loss. On another episode, a distinguished subject matter expert and I are going to dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage, not in apartments which are oversupplied, but is there a shortage in the one to four unit space? That's our topic, because you probably heard contradictory information in the media about whether there's a shortage or not, and then some outlets say there's a housing shortage of 2 million units. Others, 10 million. They're all over the place. We're going to sort it out on an upcoming episode. Does America really have a housing shortage? Then the youngest guest to ever appear on the show will be with us. He's a 19 year old college student that has a real estate investing related major, and since last year, he and I have befriended each other. He was born in about 2006 so it'll be interesting to see how he views the investing world and what they teach him about real estate investing in college today, he is probably the most impressive teenager that I've ever met in my life. Then six weeks from now, we will have an epic get rich education podcast episode 600 on a subject as paradoxical and complete with a GRE contrarianism That builds real wealth, debt is the American dream will be episode 600 if you're serious about building wealth, be sure to follow or subscribe to the show. We are going on a run. If you know someone in your life who needs to think differently. If you know one investor who's still waiting for perfect conditions. This will help them tap the Share button and tell them about the show until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your daydream.   Unknown Speaker  48:14   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  48:42   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Central Florida is the Year's Most Compelling Housing Market" on Thursday, February 19th at 8pm Eastern. Keith explores how a shift in mindset can change the way you build wealth, why so many new landlords are entering the market, and what recent economic trends could mean for future rents.  You'll also hear how one Florida investor is navigating a changing housing landscape, and learn about a timely opportunity in one of the country's fastest‑growing real estate markets—all without needing to be a hands-on landlord. Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/593 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. There's a new wave of landlords. Wages are rising faster than both inflation and home prices. Learn what that's going to mean for rents. Hear the voices of five different Federal Reserve chairs, then GRE announces our biggest event of the year, and you're invited today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:32   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:16   mid south home buyers, with over two decades is the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Corey Coates  2:19   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:35   Welcome to GRE from the Adriatic Sea to the Atlantic Ocean and across 188 nations worldwide, I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Sometimes we all need a mindset reset, and this can include me. Sometimes. James clear, the author of atomic habits, says there are four types of wealth, financial wealth, which is money, social wealth, which is status, time, wealth which is freedom, and physical wealth, which is health. Be wary of jobs that seduce you with one and two but rob you of three and four. That is to say, be careful with jobs that seduce you with financial and social wealth but rob you of time and physical wealth that is definitely going to happen to you during your life, especially early in your working career. But many people, even most people, they don't do much about this. They just go on and on, selling their soul to their employer for decades. Sometimes paychecks aren't compensation. They're a bribe from an employer to give up your dreams early in your career, delayed gratification actually makes some sense, because you need capital formation, you need down payments, you need dry powder. That is totally fair and the time in your life for delayed gratification. But there's a point that most people miss, the point where delayed gratification quietly mutates into denied gratification. This is huge. Most people miss this inflection point. When is this point in your life? That's when I'll do it later becomes, well, I guess I never did it at all. They look up at what they've got at age 65 and realize that they have a respectable title. They still wear Dockers pants. They have a 401, K that they must start paying tax on, and knees that creak louder than. The front door. Compound Interest hardly outpaces taxes and inflation. That's just going to keep you in one spot, you know, and you're never going to get that time back. There is no do over there. So you need to get to the point where you can be more frugal with your time than your money. Younger people have a harder time adopting this mindset, and that's a little natural, because they have more time and less money. Sooner than later, you must desperately get financially free so that you can simply be your self workaholics, optimize income instead of assets, and you can't let that happen, because labor does not compound and capital does compound, your quality of life will exceed your cost of living when your life is funded by what you own, not by what you do that takes a different mindset. You can either be a conformer or you can build wealth when you invest in real estate that pays five ways. It's like what you're doing is buying future Tuesdays, where you never have to work again and then later, add on future Wednesdays, where you never have to work again because you got the compound leverage instead of the impotent compound interest. I mean, just consider your two and a half million dollar portfolio that is passively doing the same work as someone who sells 40 to 50 hours a week of their life away for 100k in yearly salary. All right, maybe you're thinking, Oh, that all sounds thought provoking, but if you're not engaged on that, it can sound airy and philosophical and even risky. It's sort of like, yeah, you're cueing the acoustic guitar music and slow motion images of someone pensively gazing at a sunset.   Keith Weinhold  7:12   All right, what is the concrete plan? It's not all about mindset. It only starts with mindset. You got to make that actionable. Well, we constantly provide concrete plans for you here on this show, and I've got another concrete plan for you toward the end of the show today. This harkens back to what I discussed with you seven weeks ago, seven episodes ago on the show. That's when I discussed the world's first billionaire, John D Rockefeller and his enduring quote from about 100 years ago, he who works all day has no time to make money. Yeah, that's the quote a little review. What you learned seven episodes ago is that Rockefeller meant, if you spend your life doing tasks, you're never going to rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. The bottom line here is that earning a living is a distinctly different activity than building wealth. That's what we're talking about here.    Keith Weinhold  8:14   Well, there is a new wave of landlords entering the market, and they are reshaping what owning rentals looks like. One survey by rental platform avail of nearly 2000 users. It's really influential. It found that 53% of landlords became landlords in the last five years. So you have a lot of new landlords with the most 17% of landlords entering the market in just the last year, most purchased a property specifically to rent it out, and 1/3 sort of backed into this business by renting out their former residence. Of course, some people want to rent out their former residence today, if they got locked into that sexy owner occupied three and 4% financing from 2022 and earlier, the survey went on to tell us with some really good takeaways here, 72% of landlords manage between one and four units, and this avail survey. I mean, it's just another one that shows that the majority of landlords operate small portfolios, classic mom and pop investors. That one's not too surprising. The top three reasons that landlords gave for entering the rental market, they're pretty interesting. The number one reason for getting into this at 41% of respondents is building long term wealth. Next 33% for generating passive income, and the third most popular one, it's a distant third, it is preparing for retirement at 13% so building long term wealth is the number one reason for getting into this, and that is the right reason. Them when it comes to ownership structure, 64% said that they own the property individually, whether that's through a single member LLC or in their own name, doing it, yeah, individually, rather than with a family member or a business partner. So really, the summary of this terrific, recent avail landlord survey is that if you're just getting started, you're not alone. A lot of people are most own properties solely in their own name, and the number one reason for doing it is to build long term wealth. Now there's another pervasive set of economic trends out there in the broader economy, but it's really a benefit for real estate investors, and that is the fact that wage growth has now outpaced consumer price growth for three years. Yeah, another way to say that is that wage growth has outpaced inflation for fully three years. Yeah, most people just aren't feeling it yet. So you might be taken somewhat aback by that, and why aren't people feeling that wage growth is faster than inflation, the pandemic inflation spike that was so huge, it was like getting hit with a freight train, and then someone tells you, good news, the train has stopped. Yeah, that's nice. You are still lying on the tracks, rubbing your ribs. That's because we're all still absorbing spiked prices for everything from a lumber two by four to a York Peppermint Patty, year over year, wages are up 3.8% and consumer inflation is 3% All right, so wages above inflation, that means things are getting a little more affordable, but both wages and inflation have grown faster than home prices, which have only grown about one and a half percent, and this is all per the BLS in the FHFA, so wage growth Being more than double home price growth. Well, that trend really makes properties more affordable, but historically, they're still not that affordable. Everybody knows that home prices soared until about 2023 that was the turning point, and now wages are in their catch up phase. All right, but what really matters to real estate investors is, when will this wage growth translate to rent growth, historically, big rent growth that lags big home price growth by about two to four years. So you have the big home price growth, big rent growth hits two to four years later, historically. Now, if that holds true, we should finally see substantial rent growth this year or next year. Rent growth has still been pretty soft in the one to four unit space, and even there are rent decreases in the overbuilt apartment space. Future income growth promises to make homes more affordable. Affordability has already improved, with mortgage rates hovering near three year lows. There's one problem, though, that most people overlook, and that is this wage growth has been skewed toward the higher income deciles, renters, especially workforce renters, they don't feel it until later. So this 3.8% wage growth, it's heavier for higher income people, and it's lighter for lower income people. I swear, when there are enriching economic trends, it always hits the higher income people first, and it doesn't trickle down until later. So if you as an investor, are positioned before the rent wave hits, you are surfing, and if you wait to feel it, you're swimming behind the boat. Higher wages should translate to higher rents in the next one to two years. And as far as some other forces, as we all know, the man occupying the oval office in the White House, the President, he wants lower rates. The current Fed Chair isn't so willing to do that. The next one, the one he appointed, Kevin Warsh, who arrives in May. He seems more receptive to lower rates, but it's gonna take a while. It all moves so slow. We have had 16 fed chairs before worsh over 112 years. And look how much of an econ nerd Are you? Are you as bad as me? These voices are in chronological order, and I can name each speaker.   Corey Coates  14:47   You're going to have to live with the fact that forecasts have a range of uncertainty, irrational exuberance.   Corey Coates  14:54   In my opening remarks, I'd like to briefly first review today's policy decision, but   Corey Coates  14:58   first I'll review recent. Economic developments in the Outlook, and we are well positioned to wait to see how the economy evolves.   Keith Weinhold  15:06   If you can name each of those speakers, I would love to give you a free property from gremarketplace.com but I can't quite swing that in order. Those voices are Paul Volcker. He served from 1979 to 87 he was known for crushing double digit inflation by jacking rates to near 20% it was painful medicine, but it worked the next one. Alan Greenspan sir, from 1987 to 2006 that was a long reign, almost 20 years. He oversaw the 90s economic boom, the.com bubble and the early housing bubble. Years so far, Greenspan is the only Fed chair that I have met in person. Then Ben Bernanke, he was the Fed chair from 2006 to 2014 he took the helm right before the 2008 financial crisis. He rolled out QE and emergency lending on an historic scale. In fact, he was nicknamed helicopter Ben because it's like he would print so much money that he just dropped it out of huge sacks, dollar bills in huge sacks, dropping them from an airplane, metaphorically, not literally. Then Janet Yellen, 2014 to 2018 she kind of continued this post crisis normalization, and she was the first woman to chair the Fed and then, of course, Jerome Powell serving from 2018 to 2026 he navigated the covid stimulus, ultra low rates. And then after that, the fastest rate hiking cycle in decades to fight inflation back in 2022 being the Fed chair is the most important job in this economy, and over the decades, there's been more of a movement of the fed into the public eye. You just hear about them more in the media than you used to. But like I touched on last week, it just still doesn't mean as much to real estate investors as a lot of people think, people sometimes look for someone else to come save them, but it's more about you and the choices that you make that's what means more housing supply and demand means more real estate investors have profited during every one of those Fed Chair reigns, which go back almost 50 years from Volcker to today, I think everybody knows that fed chairs don't control property prices, and they don't even control long term interest rates. What's a little paradoxical is that Trump has been vocal about how he wants more affordable home prices, yet at the same time he wants existing homeowners to have their home prices go up, those two things seem to be in tension. They're in conflict with each other. The only way you can possibly get both are through lower mortgage rates. But is he going to see later today you as a GRE follower, you don't have to wait for lower rates income, property still feels less affordable than it did five years ago, because it is that's real but here's the key distinction in what makes real estate investors different from owner occupied homeowners. Affordability isn't about the price of the property, it's about whether the property pays for itself and grows your net worth while inflation does the heavy lifting. Higher prices don't kill investors. Inaction during inflation does you're not buying a say, $350,000 property. You're controlling it with $70,000 while your tenant and inflation do the rest. We do not rely on hope or appreciation. We start with income tax benefits and debt pay down and then leverage appreciation typically happens as well. GRE only succeeds when investors close on properties that perform long term. One bad referral costs us years of trust, so we don't do that. The best question for you really isn't whether property is affordable. The question is whether owning an investment property is better than inflation compounding against you. That's the investor lens today.    Keith Weinhold  19:24   coming up next week on the show here, we're going to discuss apartments. It's been a truly be leaguered sector, where their prices have fallen 2030, and 40% in many markets. We've discussed apartments here on the show a lot before, like with Grant Cardone on episode 264, with Ken McElroy, countless times with me monologuing about apartments. And next week, we're going to talk to a multifamily educator who is known as the apartment King. Later on, a future show, we've got the return of the financial. Firebrand, and lately, the financial comedian Garrett Gunderson, a powerful speaker. That's definitely going to be interesting. As for today, you'll hear a first person account from a Florida resident about why he's moved to Florida and why he invests there. You've heard of this guy before. That's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 593, of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  20:26   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/G. R, E,    Keith Weinhold  21:02   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  22:13   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Zack Lemaster  22:47   this is rental retirement Zach Lee Masters. Listen to get rich education with Keith bleinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  23:02   I'd like to welcome in our own in house. GRE investment coach, we haven't had you on the show since November. Welcome in Naresh.   Naresh Vissa  23:11   Kwith, It's a pleasure to be back on the show. Thanks for having me on.   Keith Weinhold  23:16   We're just playing it all casual and comfortable here in house. You were just finishing up, what ice cream or a container of something right before we got started   Naresh Vissa  23:25   here, all done with the ice cream and ready to record the podcast.   Keith Weinhold  23:29   Yeah, all right, keeping cool for our chat. Well, you know you do live in Florida, so you must have your own perspective on the Florida market. You live in the Tampa area, and the reason that that's a germane topic is that's something we've been talking about here lately as really an opportunity, and that is because most of Florida has seen some temporary property price attrition, but yet more population growth is projected. So that's why we feel like that's temporary. But why don't you tell us about what you see on the ground there?   Naresh Vissa  24:07   Keith, I've lived in Florida for 11 and a half years now. That's Tampa, Florida. I like Florida a lot. I moved here December 2014 for similar reasons that many people are moving here today. So I moved to Florida in December 2014 because of no state income tax, because of, at the time, lower cost of living. Florida was one of the states I got hit the hardest during the 2008 financial crisis, or nothing called in a real estate crisis, Florida, Arizona, those few others got hit really, really hard. So Florida at that time was still rebounding from 2008 so I moved for the affordability, the no income tax, of course, the weather better. Weather. And then most places in the Northeast I've lived so weather is a big deal when it comes to real estate and geography as well. These are all different reasons to move to Florida, and these are the reasons why I moved to Florida. I was also single in my 20s, so I was much younger at the time. I was single in my mid 20s, and Florida is very good for that too. For 20 something Gen Z folks today, Florida is definitely a place that they should consider. I moved down here and I fell in love with it. From day one. I got a place living right on the water, a beach. Got beaches everywhere. Florida's tour. And I say all this because these are all enticing features of Florida, for renters, for tenants, for snowbirds. I had never even heard of what a snowbird was until I moved down to Florida, where you have people who literally live here for seven months of the year, and then they live in their home state for five months of the year. So that's generally what it is, seven months in Florida, five months in their home state, which can be the people I know personally are from New York, Connecticut, Illinois, Ohio. The list goes on and on. Basically anywhere that's north of Florida could be considered a snowbird area. So that's another reason why Florida is a very hot market. Now, obviously, during the pandemic, in end of 2020, people started moving to Florida in droves. Part of it was politically, because you didn't have the restrictions that other states had during that crazy time that we lived through. And another part of it was work from home. So similar to me, in 2014 when I became full time work from home, I wanted to move somewhere for all those different reasons that I gave you the total package, and Florida fit that there was maybe one other state that fit the bill, based on everything that I told you, probably one other state. That's it. So Florida fit the bill, and that's why I think Florida is always going to be despite the hurricane prep, Florida is always going to be a destination that people will seriously look at whether you're older, retirement age or younger. Like I said in my mid 20s, single guy Florida is always going to be that destination for all the reasons that I laid out. So with that being said, what does that mean for real estate? What that means for real estate is that there's going to be a constant supply of people coming into Florida, and when there's a constant supply of people coming into Florida, then you can expect real estate prices to at least not decline. We passed, you know, all sorts of bills, including Dodd Frank post 2008 to prevent people from taking out mortgages that they couldn't afford. So now that that's out of the way, when you have a constant supply of people who are able to afford homes, who are able to afford rents, well, that's going to be a constant supply. So that's good for investors, that's good for appreciation. It's good for cash flow. And that's why I'm a huge fan, not just of the state of Florida, but also investing in Florida. And I own real estate in Florida, and you can say that I lucked out, but I bought a property in 2019 and it nearly doubled in value, yeah, when I say doubled in value in a matter of I want to say, like, two years, two and a half years, it nearly doubled in value. So with that being said, Florida, this was a rare cyclical trend when we just saw this huge upswing, rare cyclical trend. But I don't anticipate cycles like this, where you're going to have booms and busts. Moving forward, we haven't seen a bus since 2008 like I said, the the law has been taken care of in that sense, the regulation. I love the state. I've lived in six major cities, but maybe five different states, and Florida is hands down my favorite. That's why I've lived here for what did I say? 11 and a half or 12 and a half years? I don't even remember anymore. It's actually 11 and a half. My roots are here. I now consider myself a Florida person, even more so than the state of Texas, where, which is where I spent 18 years. I have no doubt that I'll surpass 18 or 19 years in Florida, and that this is it, right here. And a major reason is because this is just such a great state. It's free, it's real estate friendly. This is for people who are looking at buying primary residences, not for investment properties. But the governor has put on the ballot this coming election cycle to remove, to abolish the property tax in the state of Florida. So if you own, if you live full time, not a snowbird, not investors, but if you live in Florida permanently, then no more property tax if the vote passes. So that's another huge plus for owning property if you're a permanent resident in Florida,   Keith Weinhold  29:57   yeah, even if the property tax is abolished. Which seems unlikely, you could just tell what the tenor and the temperature of the tax climate and the investing climate is like in Florida, if they're even spearheading such a proposal, and they're a national leader in something like property tax abolition, like they are and Naresh about eight years after you moved there, which would be, what about 2020? 2022, somewhere in there, we had that strong pandemic migration push into Florida. What's happened is that that flow has slowed down. There's still positive net in migration in there in Florida. But the builders, they got ahead of this, and the pandemic migration wave waned, and they had a temporarily overbuilt condition, and they still do now, which is one reason why we've seen prices fall somewhat in most Florida zip codes, and this spells part of the opportunity. So you do have all these new build properties, some of which are vacant, but you have a good chance they're going to get absorbed pretty soon. And there are some obvious advantages to owning new build.   Naresh Vissa  31:11   Well, Keith, there is brand new construction in Florida, like you said. The work started in 2021 and there are homes that have not been sold. I don't want to say, since they were finished building in 2021 they recently finished building in 2025 and these homes could be a variety of reasons. It could be economic related. It could be hurricane related. In Tampa, the Central Florida, we had two horrible hurricanes back to back within a 15 day period, two really bad hurricanes towards the end of 2024 September and October 2024 and people lost their homes. Renters lost their homes. Other people just were freaked out and scared and said, You know what? I don't want to deal with. I've got PTSD from these hurricanes. I'm moving up to Alabama or Georgia or Orlando, you know, somewhere in Central Florida, that's a way. But even that area, you know, the hurricane still made it through to those areas too. People just picked up and said, You know what I'm done with Florida. It's a great state, but I don't want to deal with these hurricanes. And so regardless, whatever the reason, this is a pie, and these are all slices of the pie, I don't know what's been more of a contributing factor than which one has been more than the others. But with that being said, there are tons of properties in Florida, pretty much the entire state of Florida, where, especially new construction properties, are below at the time when they were being built, they're below what they anticipated being listed as. And So Keith, we're having a special webinar this Thursday, talking about these properties because they are discounted properties. They are properties that are selling at tremendous discounts, like I said to when Ground was broken years ago. So join that webinar. Gre, webinars.com gre webinars.com. Again, brand new construction. Many of these properties already have tenants in place. Not all of them, but many of them do already have tenants in place. There are all sorts of incentives that the builder is offering. And there are many builders in that, not just this one that's going to be on the webinar, but in Florida, there are many builders who are offering discounts, rate, buy downs, other incentives, because the home values have fallen somewhat a bit. Why have the home values falling? Because the demand has fallen as well. So again, the next question people might have is, well, if the demand is falling, if home home values are falling, why would I buy the trend is downward. And the answer is, whether it's a stock or any other security, you don't necessarily want to have the FOMO to buy at an all time high, just because everyone else is buying it. And I actually have family members who bought real estate at the peak of 2022 there was FOMO and there was, hey, you know, I need to get a flip, and they're down. They bought peak 2022, and they're down today. Because, look, you can pick any housing market in the country, especially a prime state like Florida. Look at any 30 year period, and you will see that home values are up double digits, even if you look at 2009 when the housing market crashed and we reached something like 10 year bottom in housing, if you look at the 30 year period, well, if someone who bought a house in Florida in, say, 1979 was still way up on their property in 2009 30 years later, we're not buying Bitcoin here where it can go up 30% in one day or go down 30% in one day. We're talking real estate, and real estate has been proven. It's been tested. It's been proven throughout time, not even a 30 year period. I think if you take any 20 year period, you're going to see the same trend of double digit gains, double digit growth. On real estate appreciation. So I'd say, if you're skeptical about Florida, you see these home values, all these discounts, that's the first thing I hear from followers. They say, why are they offering so many discounts? I'm a little concerned about all these discounts and incentives, and I don't know if that's a good thing. Well, I say, Well, I mean, you can buy full price in another state, if you'd like, you know, in California or so you could, you're more than free to buy full price. But we're talking Florida here. We're not talking about West Virginia or Rhode Island, or, you know, Nebraska. We're talking Florida. This is still the land of Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse, this is the land of the best beaches in the country. I mean, they there's just no arguing or debating these facts. Florida all the reasons that I stated earlier, is going to continue to be a hot, hot market. So I highly recommend people, if you want to get in on these discounted deals, G R E, webinars.com G R E, webinars.com register for our upcoming online and live special event this Thursday evening at 8pm Eastern Time, 8pm Eastern Time, gre webinars.com you won't want to miss this free, online and live special event.   Keith Weinhold  36:25   When a pound of oranges is on sale or a pound of zucchini is on sale, consumers are often attracted to that sale. Should probably be the same way with you considering adding to your real estate portfolio, and it's funny, when oranges of zucchinis are on sale, no one tries to find fault with it and think that they're rotten inside or something like that. But somehow with real estate or an investment that tends to get scrutiny from people, but these are real discounts that you're getting over buying, say, two years ago, and we're talking about a motivated seller here. And as you know, Naresh, we had the builder on the show last week, the one that's going to be co hosting the webinar with you on Thursday, and he talked to us about buying down mortgage rates to between 3.75% and 4.25% and we're here at a time where the owner occupied rate is six to six and a quarter the investor rate is seven, so you're getting about a three percentage point buy down. That's really the attraction. And Naresh, before I ask you, if you have any last thoughts, yes, again, it is our live event that you can attend from the comfort of your own home, Thursday the 19th, at 8pm eastern in just a few days, here with Naresh and the builder who you heard on last week's show, co hosting a live webinar for Central Florida so inland new build income property. It's free. You're invited, and the benefit of you attending live is that you can have any of your questions answered in real time. You're going to learn more about the Central Florida market and more about the home building process, and you are going to be able to see available new bill property, real addresses, with some of these pretty grand incentives that we've talked about again. GRE webinars.com, any last thoughts? Naresh   Naresh Vissa  38:17   I get a lot of questions about is right now the time to buy? Should I buy later? What's going to happen with real estate? And I know the number one question, or the number one caution our followers are going to have, is, is right now the time is March or April, the time. And I say, look, with real estate, I already gave you the figure that you take any 20 year time period, any 30 year time period, and that's our time horizon here at GRE again, we're not trying to buy bitcoin here and flip it, you know, two days later, we're looking to buy and hold for, I don't want to say forever, but I know my time horizon in general is the full 30 year term, at least for my properties, and some people you know, want 10 or 15 years. That's fine too, but that's the time horizon. It is not one year, two years. We're not flipping new construction properties here in Central Florida. We are looking to buy and hold over the long haul, get some very good, high quality tenants in there, in these new construction properties, so that you, the GRE follower and the investor, can collect your monthly cash flow as well as over that 20 year period, or that 30 year period take part in appreciation as well. We've also talked extensively, Keith in previous episodes about interest rate cuts that the Federal Reserve is going to be doing, and just know this, there's a reason why the builder is offering these incentives where you can get the rates so low, your mortgage rate can be so low, and it's going to take at least a year, even if the Fed goes to zero. I mean, it's going to take mortgage rates a very long time. And to reach that point of getting such low interest rates that you just laid out, so that even makes it more enticing, like, Hey, I basically have a head start on the Federal Reserve because I follow the Fed pretty closely. We don't need to get into those details, but it's looking heavily like they are going to be start cutting again later this year, this summer. So it's looking like they're going to do that, but again, now you can have a head start, because when the Fed starts doing that, and when the mortgage rates fall, then everybody's going to jump in. And what's going to happen to the home values once everybody jumps in, well, they're going to go up. You want to jump in when everybody is not jumping in, and when you can get an amazing deal on these interest rates thanks to the builder buying down your interest rate. So this is a GRE special you can't get these deals. I challenge our followers to go on the internet and try to find better incentives or deals. And what you're going to see on this webinar, on this online, live special event. So gre webinars.com you can join me as well as our special guest. He heads up the builder. His name is Jim. He's going to be on with me. And please join us at grewebinars.com sign up for this free and live online special event.   Keith Weinhold  41:20   These are some great points. There's a lot of anticipation for Thursday, Naresh. We'll see you then.   Naresh Vissa  41:25   Thanks, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  41:32   Oh yeah, a first person account on Florida life and opportunity from our own Naresh nationally, the build to rent model that has been a real success, building single family rentals with the intent that they are rentals. From day one, over 321,000 homes have been built specifically as rentals this way since 2012, and more than three quarters of those in just the last five years. So the build to rent trend is picking up steam. About 1/3 of Americans rent their home, and although the word rental for some people that still conjures up visions of high rises packed with apartments, but a growing number of today's rentals are these freestanding, single family homes and duplexes like we're talking about today, nestled in suburban communities with top notch schools, and that's why a growing number of mom and pop investors have hopped on the build to rent bandwagon. They take less maintenance. It attracts quality tenants who stay longer, and the rentals have changed, but so had the renters. 20 years ago, it felt like tenants had to rent, like they had no choice. Today, you've got more and more tenants that choose to rent. Many of them make 100k to 125k or more. Today, rentals are cheaper than owning for those people, and they're less of a headache. A lot of them don't want to fix things, and you as the owner, don't want to either. That's why new build is attractive. Then, you know, I just sent that great map to our newsletter subscribers about which states saw the most population gain from 2020 to today, the South had more population growth than every other US region combined, which is jaw dropping and within the South, the state with the most population growth since 2020 is Florida, with An 8.9% population gain in that span, narrowly beating out Texas and South Carolina. By the way, even if it weren't for the attractive builder interest rate near 4% these Sunshine State deals could still make sense. New build single family rentals from the 270s new build duplexes, 395 to 420k low insurance rates, positive cash flow, a builder warranty. And it's really even better than that. These properties are centered on Ocala, Florida, which received national recognition as the fastest growing city for this second year in a row. That's according to a U haul report, and Florida is the epitome of investor friendly. Florida is the first state to enact a law allowing law enforcement to immediately remove squatters. It distinguishes them from legal tenants. You might come to the webinar event, perhaps thinking about 80k or 500k that you want to allocate toward property or maybe nothing and you just want to learn at the event you will evaluate realistic opportunities learn how property management is handled, and understand how today's inventory fits into your disciplined, long term strategy that all takes place on. On Thursday the 19th at 8pm Eastern. It's our biggest event of the year, and it is called Why Central Florida is the year's most compelling housing market. One last time for Thursday, it is gre webinars.com, until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  45:20   You nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  45:52   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get richeducation.com  

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Central Florida is the Year's Most Compelling Housing Market" on Thursday, February 19th at 8pm Eastern. Keith looks at how a changing Federal Reserve leadership might shape the interest rate environment, then zooms in on what's really happening with homebuilders versus remodelers across the country.  You'll hear about a lesser-known strategy some investors are using to step back from day-to-day landlording while keeping their income, and then we head to Central Florida to explore why one fast-growing market is quietly becoming a hotspot for new-build rental properties.  Along the way, a longtime Florida builder joins the show to explain how they're creating affordable, investment-friendly homes and what kinds of rents and tenant demand they're seeing on the ground—plus a way you can learn more live if this opportunity fits your own portfolio plans. Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/592 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the naming of a new Federal Reserve Chair. Then are homebuilders in trouble today? There are a dwindling number of them, and their profits are down. I'll talk to a homebuilder. Listen to what amenities tenants want today, and it's interesting. We'll learn how low of a mortgage rate builders will give you. Now there's an opportunity here today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:30   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:14   mid south home buyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Speaker 1  2:17   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:33   Welcome to GRE from countersport Pennsylvania to Davenport Iowa and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education now more than ever, where you learn about personal finance and real estate investing matters. There's more AI generated content out there. This show is all flesh and blood me. There's also more clickbait content out there that says something like the housing market is about to have a price crash. No, it's not. They're just there to get short term attention. So your information source really matters today. New incoming Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, was recently named. He will replace the outgoing Jerome Powell on May 15. I want to tell you more about that in a moment. But first, just imagine if this scenario were to occur, say that we get a Fed chair that has to deal with really high inflation. And so what this Fed chair does is that he successfully brings inflation down, and he does that without triggering a recession that's called a soft landing. Well, you know what? That's exactly what Jerome Powell did the past three years. Yeah, that's what he's accomplished, and he doesn't get credit for it. He only gets a lot of criticism. Now this doesn't mean that I love Powell. I don't even know that the Fed should exist at all, but Powell got a lot of criticism for calling 2022, wave of inflation transitory, and being too late to respond to it. So he gets some credit here as his term of more than eight years winds down. Let's listen in to some of Jay Powell's recent comments about succession,    Speaker 2  4:23   you've obviously experienced a lot during your time as Fed chair, served under multiple presidents. I'm wondering what advice you have for whoever your successor might be.   Speaker 3  4:34   Honestly, I'd say a couple of things. One is, you know, stay out of elected politics. Don't get pulled into elected politics don't do it. And that's another thing. Another is that you know, our window into democratic accountability is Congress, and it's not a passive burden for us to go. To Congress and talk to people. It's an affirmative, regular obligation. If you want democratic legitimacy, you earn it by your interactions with the our elected overseers. And so it's something you need to work hard at, and I have worked hard at it so and the last thing is, you know, it's easy to it's easy to criticize government institutions so many ways. I will tell whoever it is you're about to meet the most qualified group of people you not only have ever worked with, you will ever work with and when you meet fed staff. And not everybody's perfect, but, but there isn't a better cadre of professionals more dedicated to the public well being than work at the Fed.    Keith Weinhold  5:43   Yeah. So to Powell's point, the next Fed chair, worsh, does champion fed independence, much like Powell has. That is a good thing that keeps America from turning into a banana republic that maintains a strong dollar. Warsh was actually a Fed Governor back during the 2008 global financial crisis, so he's got that experience when he comes in as Fed Chair in three months, he's widely expected to lower interest rates more than Powell did, much like the president wants. Kevin Warsh looks a lot like Michael Scott from the office. He has got to be less bumbling than him, though, overall, the effect on real estate and mortgage rates by shifting from PAL to worsh, I mean, that should be pretty mild. Maybe you'll see rates go a little lower than if pal had stayed and speaking of rates, wait till you see how low the mortgage rate is that our homebuilder guest is offering today. What's really happening with homebuilders now? How much trouble are they in? Homebuilders have largely been maligned. Overall. There are fewer homebuilders today in America than there were 20 years ago, and there are more remodelers than there were 20 years ago, fewer home builders, more remodelers, and that's for a few different reasons. Over the past couple decades, we just have substantially higher labor and material costs, stricter building and energy codes, higher interest rates, and that disproportionately hurts long duration construction projects. We've got zoning constraints and land constraints that make ground up development slow and uncertain and risky. So while the number of Home Builders in America is down, the number of remodelers are up, because America's housing stock is getting older. Its median age is over 40 years, and that creates constant demand for upgrades. Capital prefers faster, lower risk cycles. That's what remodels offer, and homeowners with locked in low mortgage rates choose to stay in place. And what does that make them do? That makes them renovate and remodel, not move. So this is why, compared to 20 years ago, you have fewer home builders and more remodelers. Today, that's per the NAHB and the Census Bureau and all these forces, they've resulted in a lower profit margin for homebuilders. Yes, homebuilder margin compression for a lot of the bigger builders, including DR Horton, just as you might guess in this cycle, their profits were greatest in 2022 and they have fallen since then. Higher mortgage rates came in, and builders had to lose profits by offering more incentives to entice buyers. You're going to learn more about that today and how it really spells quite an opportunity for you and I. When the final change in national home prices was tallied for the end of last year, they had risen in 16,500 zip codes. All right, that's 63% of America's zip codes, and prices were lower from a year earlier in the other 37% home price gains were concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, and the story there continues to be too many buyers and not enough homes. In fact, over 85% of zip codes saw price growth in Illinois, Connecticut, Wisconsin and Indiana, slow, steady, stubborn, kind of like winter refusing to leave. Losses were predominant in the Sun Belt. Prices caught their breath there. There was price attrition in Florida, with 96% of zip codes, so nearly all of Florida, then California, 78% of zip codes had a price loss. Texas, 75% of them and Arizona, 73% the biggest pocket of opportunity appears to be in Florida. Florida property is on sale. And because real estate is local. A lot of times we talk here nationally, but to get to that local level, sometimes you have to dig in to a local market to really find out what's going on. We're going to do that today. Now, central Miami, Orlando and Tampa, they're not generally the spot for obtaining cash flow from long term rentals. I've identified an opportunity. We'll get into that with this Florida homebuilder shortly. It's kind of funny. You'll run into people that say they want opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. How it plays out, though, is that once the certainty arrives, the opportunity is gone, and that's how to think about Florida and maybe Texas and some of these other markets today that have had price attrition.    Keith Weinhold  10:48   Now, three weeks ago, here on the show, I discussed the 721 exchange for the first time. So I won't get into all those details again when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, the 721 can be the best way for you to cash out. Perhaps you've been investing in real estate for a while and you have turned get rich education into got rich education. How the 721 exchange works is they basically say you have a case where you're a rental property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore. Oftentimes, this can mean you're older and real estate investing already took you where you wanted it to take you in life's journey, but you still like the financial benefit that ownership gives you. What you can do is exchange your properties into a partnership and receive shares in that partnership. Now that's different than a 1031, exchange. That's where you trade up some of your property that you directly own for what's usually more and larger property that you directly own. Well, instead, here's the big deal with exchanging your properties into a 721, partnership. The rules stipulate that this is not a taxable event, and therefore you don't have to pay any capital gains tax or depreciation recapture. Now that you're an owner in the partnership, you still get some of the benefits of owning the property, like appreciation and cash flow and such, yet no management or landlording at all like you would have with a 1031 and with a 721 you get all these benefits across a greater number of properties and markets diversification because you're a fractional owner in the other properties that are in the partnership, not only your own, and when you eventually pass away, your shares are stepped up in basis and can be distributed equally to heirs and C It's surely easier for you to divide shares among, say, your three children, than it is to divide your 18 rental houses among three children Who are going to have different goals and varying degrees of financial savvy. So the 721, exchange is a great estate planning tool too. You will have this partnership that makes an offer to buy your property. You're exchanging them for partnership shares. There's a firm that does this called flock homes, and they have a certain Buy Box to be clear with the 721, exchange, you can basically trade your rentals for shares in a diversified, professionally managed Real Estate Fund. This means that you keep your hard earned equity defer capital gains and other taxes, and you still get access to steady income and long term appreciation without the hassle of landlord duties, and you can visit flockhomes.com/gre, and get a free valuation. Get an offer for your property, see if it fits their buy box and see how much they'll pay you. There's often no need to pay to fix up or stage the property for sale or pay agent commissions for a certain investor type. This really can be a rather life changing experience for you to liquidate some or all of your property have zero tax obligation and still enjoy income and appreciation. So again, what you can do is stop by flock homes.com/gre, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g, R, E, let's discuss the home building climate today.   Keith Weinhold  14:38   I'd like to bring in a premium Florida homebuilder guest to the show, Jim, because there has been more homebuilding in Florida such that some areas of the state have excess supply. And when you add that onto the fact that the hot pandemic migration to Florida has slowed such that home prices have made a rare dip in the state, that is why it. A timely topic. Jim, you're on GRE Welcome to the show. Keith, great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and we did the IRL thing in Colorado there a few weeks ago. That was great hanging out in person. You provide entry level new build homes, mostly in Central Florida. And these are properties that are conducive to real estate pays five ways. These are properties that investors chiefly buy as rentals. So just bigger picture, tell us about that overall experience over, say, the last five years, as the pandemic wound down,    Jim Sheils  15:35   yeah, as the pandemic wound down, obviously Florida had a lot of attention. Some of it, rightly so, some of it, I think a little more inflated and commercial attention getting thrown at it. And you know, the type of deals that you and I have always stayed away from were very popular in Florida. You know, we're talking really nice houses. Keith, beautiful, nice HOAs people got in in 2021 let's say, with those very low interest rates on a six or $700,000 home, but now they're realizing that it's not going up $100,000 a year as they thought. And when they try to sell it, well, people trying to buy in $700,000 home, they're not getting that low interest rate. And if these people try to hold it and rent it, well, it doesn't cash flow, so it breaks one of those rules. It's not putting money in people's pockets, taking it out. And so we're seeing there was a large distribution of those types of houses around Florida. And then there were some builders like us that really focused on what was the most needed, and that was workforce housing. Now workforce housing, though, Keith, as you know, a lot of the builders don't want to build it. Why? Let's be straight. It's because the margins are lower right. But as you know, with me and my partner Chris, it was always let's make less margin and do more volume. That was always our model, and that was the area of the market where we felt we could build it right, we could get it financed right, and we could manage it right to hit the five things. And so we're seeing today, post pandemic, there are still key markets where the population growth is still the highest, coming into Florida, the prices are still the lowest, and there is a shortage of this type of workforce housing.   Keith Weinhold  17:11   Yes, you've identified a geography within Florida that have some of these characteristics like you're talking about. Tell us more about that region.   Jim Sheils  17:20   Yeah, we call it the Ocala region, so Central Florida, just west of Orlando. Right now, for example, u haul does their U haul top markets rankings every year? So where are the most U haul trucks going to now, you don't want to be on their side where they're coming from, Keith, because that's obviously the opposite. But for the second year in a row, the greater Ocala area has been the number 1u haul destination place in the country. So there's still a ton of population growth going there. Central Florida, I'm not going to say it sat out the growth during the pandemic that a lot of areas of Florida did, but it was starting at such a low basis with such a small amount of attention that today, even when people say, oh gosh, like I just said, house is 600 700 800,000 we're building new construction single family homes for under 300,000 the 270s a lot of the time. And we're building duplexes sometimes for under 400,000 and a lot of our you know, investors coming from the west coast. Say, are these fully built? Are they? But again, Central Florida has had a great affordability. Remain intact. It has a large population going in. There is a ton of job resource just blowing up in the area. And as you know, these are the things we look for. So we bought a lot of lots there. I'm gonna give credit to my partner, Chris. He saw calla more than I did, and we bought a lot of lots there in 2020 so before all the rises. So we got into the land basis, right? So that means we can build them at a great price. Our land basis is low, and that obviously passes along to our clients. And again, Central Florida is a perfect match for our goal. Because, you know, our goal is workforce housing, that cash flows on day one. But also nothing wrong with fixer uppers. I own a lot. I used to do a lot, but the new construction seems to have a little bit more of a less involvement, which it seems like a lot of our clients want.   Keith Weinhold  19:15   That was really prescient, as it turned out, for your business partner, Chris there to gobble up a lot of that land in 2020 before prices went soaring. And this is one reason why you can do things like offer a duplex for less than 400k That's a new build, which has some people saying like, does that thing include a roof even? But it surely does. These are very good quality livable properties. And the reason I have you here, Jim is because you are rare. There are fewer builders today than there were in decades past, and also those that build to your point earlier. They only want to build higher end properties, not the more affordable ones that you offer. We'll get more details on your price points and what properties. Products you offer later. But yeah, we have more remodelers today and fewer builders. And though it's a few years old, I found it interesting that census statistics show us that between 2007 and 2022 there are 73% more remodelers and 21% fewer builders today.    Jim Sheils  20:22   Interesting. You know, Keith, I didn't know that, and that makes me scratch my head on like when you and I were in Colorado, we were talking about future needs, even with growth that occurred during the pandemic going all the way back to oh eight when a real shortage started to start, we are still at an estimated three to 5 million homes short in the US. It really perplexes me that the amount of builders like us will be going down and not actually entering the market.   Keith Weinhold  20:47   Now, among those that are building, though, much of that is concentrated in the South, as I think we know, there's a recent resi club compilation show that 59% of current single family home building is in the south, and 41% is everywhere else. And how do you define the South? That's basically Maryland down to Florida, all the way out to Texas and Oklahoma. So you are pretty rare in some ways. However, where you're building regionally, that's not a rarity there, but yeah, having more remodelers today and fewer home builders, that's probably the result of a lot of things. You know, for one thing, just land and construction costs becoming that much more expensive over the past five years.   Jim Sheils  21:05    Yeah, we've been lucky, too, as you know, Keith, you've been with us for a decade now. But yeah, and we transitioned a piece of our company where Sumitomo forestry, large Japanese group stepped in and acquired a piece of our property. That was a very exciting thing for all of us together, because we had done well, and, you know, started small and built up to a decent sized builder for Northeast Florida and then the rest of Florida. But now, with Sumitomo coming in again, they build 17,000 homes worldwide every year, between all of their builders. Now being a part of them, we get to use their national material accounts, so they get pricing just as good, if not better, than national home builders, and they let us do our thing, stick to our build to rent, working with investor clients. We're not retail buyer guys, really. We like working with our investors, but just getting those great discounts on materials, again, we're always looking to pass on savings to our clients. Of course, we got to make margins as well, but if we're getting in with deals like that, getting into the land right, and knowing the pinpointed areas to get into, we can get the best deal for everyone. And that's been a major part having such a big, successful partner like Sumitomo keep us healthy, viable and able to do things we could have not even dreamed of five years ago.   Keith Weinhold  22:47   Yes, that gives you more capital and more options. Another unusual aberration in the market that really centers on a lot of what you do is that this fact that and this was mentioned on the show last year for the first time in my life, existing homes cost more than new build homes. Existing homes at about 420k nationally, and new build homes about 392k part of the divergence there is probably builder price cuts. So tell us more about that.    Jim Sheils  23:14   I think the issue Heath is builders built for largest spreads, and people bought very emotionally. I think you're to give you a compliment a very unemotional real estate buyer. You're not looking at, oh, this is a very nice, you know, extra his and hers porcelain sink. And we're looking at fundamental numbers a good, solid property. And I think what's caused a lot of that is people did the opposite. Builders were looking for the largest margin they could get, which was on those types of properties. And then buyers were looking very emotionally, and they were told, Hey, this is going to go up 50 to $100,000 a year. So just sit there and hold on, sure you'll lose $1,500 a month, but don't worry about it. You'll make up for that every year. And obviously we're not seeing that's true. They could have really used your class about the five ways to get paid in real estate. And I think that that's what's doing it. And this is what builders do. I mean, everyone's in a business, and a lot of builders just focus on the largest margin. Now that's eating them up now, because those types of properties are not in demand. To build them on spec would be very dangerous, but you can see that that worked for a short term. We're very glad we went to the low margin workforce housing model, because I see that falling out of favor almost never even in Oh 809, Keith, when I was in the remodel game, a lot of the properties that were new construction coming out that time they were affordable, still did very well.   Keith Weinhold  24:42   We're talking with a premium Florida homebuilder today, because they offer affordable properties that make sense for investors. But what about the demand? Where is that going to come from? Where is that going to be? And that's what's happening with the renter segment. We'll talk more about that when we. Come back. You're listening to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,   Keith Weinhold  25:03   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem, property or your whole portfolio through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre.    Keith Weinhold  25:39   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  26:51   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Ken McElroy  27:26   this is Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Listen to get rich education with Keith whitehold, and don't twitch your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  27:40   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking with Jim a premium Florida homebuilder here at such an interesting time in the cycle, since supply is up in some parts of Florida, Jim and his team has strategically chosen a place that is still fueling a lot of net in migration in Central Florida, and that's where the rental demand needs to come from as well. Now nationally, we've seen the homeownership rate fall over about the past year, from near 66% to near 65% that does not sound like much, but a 1% shift means there are 1.3 million new renters in just the past year. So with that in mind, and the fact that this low affordability for home buying means that people need to rent or stay renters longer, provides some of the Sustainable demand. So tell us more about the rental demand in Central Florida.   Jim Sheils  28:39   Yeah, you know, when we first went out there about a decade ago, Keith, I think it was 82 or 83% of all properties out there were owner occupied, which means it was a very lopsided amount of existing rental property available. And this is before the curve of population growth really took off. But when Chris and I went out there and we were assessing that small percentage of rental property that was out there. Gosh, it was old and kind of beat up. There was not a lot like the new construction that was available. So when we brought in new construction, we saw just the competition. Was hard to compete with us. You know, when it was an older, not so nice taking care of we came in and we saw a jump from, you know, doing older houses ourselves, you know, a person would stay about 13 months. But for the new construction in Central Florida, we've seen a jump to about three years. So that's really positive. People get into a new construction property they don't want to leave, whether that's half of a duplex or a single family. The duplexes are interesting because we're able to build those on infill lots and existing single family home neighborhoods, so a person who doesn't want to live in an apartment can live there, have their own yard, and they couldn't afford the whole single family, but to have half of a single family basically what a duplex is. It makes a big difference, and the people are in great demand of rental in Central Florida there because of exactly why. I said, Keith, the job. Course, continues to grow in Central Florida, extremely strong. The business incentives to come into the area by the local municipality is very, very good. So here's something interesting, Keith, the average salary in Ocala is about 72,000 and the average home price is about 298,000 that is a very healthy affordability one. Yeah, very, very good. And so that job source continues to pay very well. And we've talked about just the logistics centers and the Equestrian Center. That's the largest in the world. Now the villages are just 25 miles south. So Ocala becomes a bedroom community, and that is the second largest retirement community and growing in the US. So there's a lot of job source that allows people to live there at a good affordability. And so that combination of affordability with this extending job source has been really, really good for the Ocala region.   Keith Weinhold  30:59   It's been said that the only place you get money is from other people, and we're talking about your renters in this case. So oftentimes these renters, they had their sense of privacy there, like, for example, do the duplexes even have fenced backyards for each individual side,   Jim Sheils  31:17   depending on where they are? We will. Other times it hasn't been a requirement. We've done lots of surveys to see is it worth the price point to put in full fencing in certain areas. It can be in a lot of areas. Keith, they're just so excited with the price point not having to move into an apartment building that it hasn't even been warranted or necessary.   Keith Weinhold  31:38   Yeah. So we're talking about livability characteristics here, because oftentimes new build rental property results in a higher tenant stay that longer duration, because they're the first person that have ever lived there, and it's also difficult for them to go out and improve their living situation unless they become a home buyer, and that's difficult to do today. Tell us more about the incentives and the property types and so on, because there really are some pretty exciting ones.    Jim Sheils  32:09   One of the best things about Central Florida, Keith, combined with new construction, is insurance costs. Now you and I have laughed about the blanketed statement where you said, oh my goodness, you cannot get insurance in Florida. You can't get property insurance in Florida, or it's doubled, tripled, gone up 7x that is a true statement on certain properties. If you're buying older properties from the 1950s that are within a half mile of the beach on low lying ground, but new construction properties far away from the beach, that is a totally different things. So again, being in Central Florida, where we are, a lot of people think, oh, to insure a single family home there, that's going to be several $100 a month, when actually, you know, and you've seen a lot of our performer quotes, our insurance companies are getting a single family home done for about $65 a month on average, full coverage. And that's the advantage of new construction. Insurance companies are all about risk. They analyze risk. When you're on a new construction property built on higher ground away from the beach, they like that, and they do that a duplex. You're looking at about $100 a month. So incentive wise, we've really searched to team up with great insurance companies that get the best rates full coverage. And again, we surprise people when they say, Oh man, I thought there would be a whole nother zero at that monthly cost. And these are actual quotes, as you know, with working with a lot of GRE people. So that's one great thing, another great thing, Keith, that happened when we joined forces with Sumitomo. And again, Sumitomo 320, years old, one of the biggest powerhouses out of Asia, Warren Buffett, is very heavily invested in another one of the conglomerates, not the housing one we do, but he's very involved in one of their other companies. And when they came aboard, you know, we have no bank debt for a builder, which is rare. And since we have such a healthy balance sheet, we're actually able to work deals with mortgage companies where we'll do what's called builder forward commitments, Keith, and that means we will pre buy mortgages for our clients, for the homes we're building, and we will pass that savings along. So right now, you know, if an investment property in a duplex might be an average of 7% for anyone who walks in off the street to a bank. Right now, our most popular rate program for our investors, for single family or duplexes, is 3.75 Gosh. So as you know, for your five ways, if we want to get cash flow, there's a big difference. Yeah, we're getting affordable housing. But if the rate is over 7% compared to 375 that could eat up the cash flow with us being able to have this power to buy large tranches of money and pass it along and lock our people in again, an average right now at 3.75 is our most popular program, and that's long term money, then we're able to get that cash flow right off the bat. And you and I know how important that is   Keith Weinhold  34:50    for this super attractive 3.75% long term mortgage rate on single family homes and duplexes. How? Much does the buyer have to come out of pocket at the closing table to buy that down themselves? And how much do you the builder participate in that buy down?   Jim Sheils  35:07   You know, it depends Keith at different times, because there is a little bit of a fluctuation. Sometimes it can be as low as zero points or just one origination point to bring it in. It does vary. And also, if people say, hey, I really don't want to bring in any points. Well, that's fine. You know, if you don't want to walk in zero to 2% points for that, you can also just raise your rate up to four and a quarter and probably walk in nothing. So there's different things that we can do, but the goal of it is to have us have the brunt of it. And what I can tell you is, if the average person walked into a bank, and a bank wouldn't do this anyway. It's only for, again, builders with a certain size, but if you went into a bank right now and said, I'd like to buy my rate down to 3.75 the average Keith that this would cost a person off the street going into a bank would be 12 to 15% banks wouldn't even do it for an individual. But that's about the estimates when you look at it. So again, volume has privileged. The fact we're able to buy it down. It does cost us a good amount of money, but we're all able to save since we're kind of working together to buy these larger tranches. And again, the need of any investment for buying down the rate from the clients is very minimal.   Keith Weinhold  36:18   Tell us more about the property types, new build single family homes, new build duplexes.   Jim Sheils  36:23   You know, single family and duplexes are our main focus in 2026 for Central Florida, we've done the research. They're very high in demand. They rent quickly, and they rent long term to produce cash flow. Our average single family home under 300,000 we're aiming to after expense, make about $300 cash flow. Our duplexes should be about twice that amount, about just under $600 a month, or just over in cash flow. And then again, the prices are ranging from about 395, to 420, for a duplex. Again, these are in workforce areas where we're doing great, scattered lots. Scattered lot means there's already existing homes around. We like to go to an area where there's good a fundamental balance of homeowners and renters. So there's retail buyers that have bought their first home, and we will place our rentals in between them, whether it's a single family or a duplex.   Keith Weinhold  37:13   We sure don't need to do a complete audio pro forma here, but those cash flow amounts something near $300 for a single family home, and about double that for a duplex. Is that using, you know, a bought down rate to about 4% and some of these other inputs you're talking about, like low insurance costs and a certain property tax rate, can you tell us about that?    Jim Sheils  37:35   Yeah, property tax rate is property tax rate. We can get pretty dang close on property taxes, you know, based on millage and get that down. But when we do our performers, we absolutely go off of, you know, our average rate to be the 375, to four and a quarter. And then when GRE clients look at our performer, and they look at the insurance cost, that's an actual quote from one of our insurance companies that has insured hundreds and hundreds of these properties. Not a guess, yeah, so they know what they're doing. So yeah, those would be the assumptions made in there, and that's what we're basically getting on a week in, week out basis.    Keith Weinhold  38:09   That is really attractive as we're talking about new build. I imagine there is some sort of builder warranty as well.    Jim Sheils  38:16   There's a state mandated 210 warranty. 210 warranty is something we could talk probably a whole episode on Keith. But for what's good for people to know, basically what that means, you get two years coverage on the small stuff and 10 years coverage on the big structural stuff. And so that's why I like new construction. You know what? I used to personally just buy my own fixer up Return key properties from other people. I could get a one year warranty, and that's the best that really can be done. Now with new construction, we've gone from, you know, with our fixer upper homes, able to do a one year warranty, which is good at something. But now with new construction, we can do a 210 warranty, big difference, and also really helps the safety score of issues if they came up.    Keith Weinhold  38:59   We were talking about new build property, and we tend to project relatively low maintenance and repair costs for an obvious reason, maybe your long term vacancy rate could very well be lower as well, due to my earlier point about a tenant wanting to stay there for a long time, because it's hard for them to improve their living situation unless they went out and bought their own place. And you have the low insurance rates, and you have the low mortgage rates, all contributing to positive cash flow on a new build property. And we think about that tenant and what gets the tenant excited? We start to think about some of those amenities. So tell us about what amenities are offered, including inside, in the kitchen and so on.   Jim Sheils  39:38   Jim, yeah, great question, Keith. We've really gotten a great recipe for success for that. You know, we've been doing this a little over a decade now, and so you're always tweaking your build model. What do people like? What do they not like? What's good for durability? Let's look at maintenance and repairs. Let's look at turn costs. So our goal is always the dual focus. That's what looks good. And what lasts really well, yeah, because you want durability. When you have tenants, you want it to look good, so you sell it down the road, 510, years to a first time homebuyer, it looks great. You can sell it. But durability wise, you don't want a lot of extra expenses or maintenance and repairs. So we go durability. So what we found a couple of things. I always joke about this. I do not like the word carpet, Keith, that is a terrible swear word in real estate investing, I can tell you right now, if I could go back and this is not, you know, owning hundreds of rentals, if I could not have done carpet and just reversed it to like vinyl plank flooring, like we do now, or even tile, which was more, I probably would have been able to buy three or four of our duplexes cash with the amount of money, and that is not an exaggeration. So we do not do carpet. First of all, it seems like trends are changing. It's not in favor right now. So we do vinyl plank flooring, which looks really nice, almost like wood floors, super durable, though, for a young family that's going to be tenant occupied in your property and running around on it. That's great. Kitchen wise, again, we don't sell retail really. We like to work with investors, but down the road, our investor might want to sell to a retail buyer. So we know, you know, from our old fix and flip days of the FHA buyers, the kitchen's got a pop. So we always do, you know, we don't do the white appliances, which you know would save you quite a bit of money, and save us quite a bit of money. We do stainless steel appliances. We do all new cabinetry, you know, kind of the latest, nicer cabinetry, a little bit of an upgrade. And then, you know, butcher block countertops, those are going to wear in about a year or two. Keith, it feels really good to spend that smaller amount, you know. But we, we like to do the more durable, nice looking countertops, you know, that are, you know, just so much more esthetically pleasing and actually durable as well. Same thing in the bathrooms. A lot of new builders will do shower kit, which not a problem if you're saving money on a rehab, you know, but we would rather do tile, bring in the extra subcontractors to give tile, and then in the master we do the dual sinks, which this might sound like little stuff, Keith, but these are the micro movements that help get a tenant in quicker, stay longer and more rent. So we're always trying to do these extra things in the granite countertops, both in the kitchens and in the bathrooms. Those cost more upfront, but we see for long term of tenant we see, for the amount of rent we get, and for resale ability, because a lot of people don't think about that. You know what? In seven years you want to sell one of these properties? Well, it's a seven year old roof, it's seven year old plumbing, you're still in a great spot for an FHA buyer. And that esthetically pleasing flooring, bathrooms, kitchens. That allows an easier sale for them, because we want to look all the way around, not just a rental. I like to hold long term, but if you want to sell in five to 10 years, that's a very valid strategy.    Keith Weinhold  42:48   I like carpet in my own home, but not rentals. But what you're sharing with us, Jim, this is absolute gold that's been brought to you through experience. This over improvement versus under improvement line in rentals, and it really has a lot of balance between durability and price. These are the sort of things that really matter, but you are selling predominantly to individual investors, a lot of mom and pop investors. Why don't you make more sales to the retail, owner occupied market, or to institutional investors, even though that might be cracked down upon now. But why don't you sell to those parties?   Jim Sheils  43:26   Yeah, you know Keith, I did a lot of fix and flip to FHA buyers, and I'm an investor. I really like working with investors. So when this all really went back to is 2009 I had a lot of investors. I was in Northeast Florida. The deal flow was incredible. And I just had a lot of investors, you know, through my different networks and Masterminds, like, where you and I have met, and said, Hey, you're getting great deals in Northeast Florida. Could you help put some together for me? And so I had done quite a few fix and flips to retail buyers, and it just kind of hot on me, you know, way back then, like, Wow. I like working with investors. I like building portfolios. I also like the fact that when I'm normally building a portfolio for an investor, well, they hang out with other investors, and they're not looking to buy one property over the next five years. They're looking to buy five to eight properties over the next five years. great point. And so we just saw it as you gotta like who you work with, right? And nothing against first time homebuyers. But when I was rehabbing houses and selling them, golly, that was a lot of work. And then could be persnickety. Yeah, very persnickety. And so when Chris and I teamed up about 10 years ago, we had both gone through the same kind of aha, like going, Yeah, it seems great, but you could sell for more to a retail buyer. But again, like I go back to even the type of property we build, we'd rather do a volume with investors. Be a builder, buy investors for investors, and work that way. And I think it suits me. I think I would have probably hung up my shoes a long time ago if I was. Working with the amount of properties we've done with retail buyers compared to investors, honestly, and so I think it was just kind of, it was a preference, really, that made sense   Keith Weinhold  45:09   to your point. Investors buy multiple properties, and that way there are fewer parties to deal with. And investors tend to be less emotional than those more persnickety, owner occupied buyers. Well, Jim, you make it easy for investors. Besides all these incentives, you also offer an in house management solution for these investors, often that tend to be out of state. Well, Jim, before I ask you, if you have any closing thoughts, would you the listener like to ask Jim any question directly? Well, you can, because I have a great event to tell you about next Thursday, the 19th, at 8pm eastern Jim here and GRE investment coach, Naresh will co host a live webinar for Central Florida new build income property. In fact, Jim, I think you know Naresh longer than I have, as it turns out, but this event is free, and you the listener are invited. We've had between 250 and 550 registrants for our past webinars. Not all of them attend live. So the benefit of you attending live is that you can have any of your questions answered by either Naresh or Jim in real time, and besides learning about the Central Florida market and more about home building, you are going to see available new build income property, real addresses with some of these rather grand incentives that we've talked about here, you might end up with a long term rate of about 4% again, it is Thursday, the 19th at 8pm Eastern. Sign up is open now at grewebinars.com that's grewebinars.com Any final thoughts here, Jim, for this great event coming up next week?   Jim Sheils  46:52   I think we're going to dig a little deeper. Obviously, this is a conversation that was great, but moves pretty quickly when we talk next week, we're going to be able to dig into more of the fundamentals, some of the stats, and just get underneath the hood of why Central Florida is making so much sense, and just some of the rising stars that we're seeing there that we're very excited to be a part of.   Keith Weinhold  47:13   You've helped our listeners for close to 10 years now. It's been an informative chat as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.    Jim Sheils  47:21   Thanks for having me, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  47:27   Yeah, like our guest touched on Ocala, Florida now has national recognition as the fastest growing city in America, and that's for the second year in a row. According to a new U haul report, Florida is, of course, a rather landlord friendly state. In fact, Florida is the first state to enact a law that allows law enforcement to immediately remove squatters, distinguishing them from legal tenants. Now here's what's interesting and why I've identified this opportunity if Florida prices dipped because people were leaving now, that could be a red flag, because population loss is like gravity. Once it starts falling, it is hard to escape. But that's not what's happening. Instead, what we're seeing is a temporary overbuild hangover. Builders got ambitious. We're in a brief period where supply outran demand and prices softened. That's not decay. That's a sale rack. Any vacant homes are not stranded. They're being absorbed by Florida's still growing population, which has now increased every single decade since its first census count, back in the year 1830 back in 1830 there were about 35,000 residents in the whole state. Isn't that amazing today? North of 24 million, that is 700x population growth in almost 200 years, and it's still growing. That kind of trend doesn't reverse because a few builders over ordered inventory here at GRE this made us target and find in opportunity. This isn't an accident. Central Florida is this year's most compelling. Housing market in that region, Central Florida, is growing faster than the rest of the state at large, and it really sits in the sweet spot of this temporary imbalance. One long established builder overbuilt and now they're motivated. They know what investors want. So, for example, they don't build swimming pools with their homes. They also offer property tours, and over 90% of their tour attendees buy property. They're willing to offer terrific incentives at our upcoming GRE live webinar, like we touched on new build single family rentals, 270k and up duplexes, three. 95 to 420, long term mortgage rates as low as 3.75% you get low insurance rates since they're inland and new build positive cash flow and a builder warranty at the event. You're going to learn all about the growth drivers in Central Florida, why so many renters are moving there and see available properties. This benefits anyone looking for a clear, practical view of current real estate conditions. Joining live does matter, since you can have those questions answered in real time, not after the opportunity has moved on, you are invited for next Thursday, the 19th, at 8p m Eastern. This one is worth circling, not because it's flashy, because it's timed right. Sign up is open now @grewebinars.com that's gre webinars.com. Until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 5  51:00   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  51:29   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

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