Podcasts about Sabbath

Struggling with guilt when you prioritize self-care? Learn practical ways to move from survival mode to thriving, honoring your God-given needs without apology. Ready to feel more fulfilled in life? If you're ever wanted to become a Life Coach, now's the time to look into what it's all about!  Book your free discovery call where we'll explore your dreams and see if  “Messy Life Transformation Coaching Certification" is a fit for you.  These calls are super chill, just me with my coffee, having a real conversation about your life and where you want to go.

Brian From reflects on a tragic shooting in Minneapolis and the need to recover compassion and lament before rushing to political conclusions. The episode also explores the covenant nature of marriage, the surprising benefits of rest and afternoon naps, and why Sabbath matters in an exhausted culture. Brian closes with a deeply personal reflection on resentment and bitterness, challenging listeners to honestly confront unresolved hurt and pursue healing rather than letting pain quietly take root. NYT article about husband feeling sorry for wife grieving affair Afternoon naps are good for your brain — here’s how, and 4 ways to get the most out of it Josh Barzon on X: "The Rise & Fall of “Elephant Room”" / X See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"Remember" is a common command in Scripture. Yet Christians often forget one of the Bible's most important passages about remembering. Today, Sinclair Ferguson discusses the Sabbath, a day devoted to remembering the Lord. Read the transcript: https://ligonier.org/podcasts/things-unseen-with-sinclair-ferguson/a-day-to-remember/ A donor-supported outreach of Ligonier Ministries. Donate: https://donate.ligonier.org/ Explore all of our podcasts: https://www.ligonier.org/podcasts

John 8:31-32 31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." 33 They answered him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?" 34 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Colossians 2:6-23 6 So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ. 9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.  11 In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.     16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.    18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.    19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. 20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?   22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.   23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.   Colossians 3:1-10 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things.   3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.    7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.   9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. 

JOIN THE WELL - $39/monthCHRISTIAN LIFE COACHING WITH REBEKAH INVITE REBEKAH TO SPEAK AT YOUR EVENTMany Christians are genuinely seeking peace by praying, trusting God, staying faithful...and yet still feel chronically overwhelmed, wired, exhausted, or emotionally numb.In this episode, we explore a hard but freeing truth: peace is not only a spiritual concept, it is also a physiological state. When the body is living in survival mode, it may not be able to feel the peace God promises, even when faith is sincere.This conversation is not about blaming your body or questioning your faith. It's about understanding how God designed us as spiritual beings living in physical bodies, and why Scripture never asks us to ignore our limits in order to trust Him.The difference between God's peace in trials and burnout disguised as faithWhy peace isn't something you can simply “think” or “pray” your way intoWhat chronic stress actually is and what it does to the brain, hormones, and bodyWhy stillness feels uncomfortable for many faithful ChristiansHow over-spiritualizing stress keeps the nervous system stuck in survival modeHow Scripture consistently affirms rest, limits, and embodied wisdomKey Scriptures MentionedPhilippians 4:7 — The peace of God that guards our hearts and mindsMatthew 11:28–30 — Jesus' invitation to the wearyExodus 20:8–11 — Sabbath as a command, not a suggestionPsalm 23:2–3 — Restoration happens beside still waters1 Kings 19 — God meets Elijah's exhaustion with rest and nourishmentExodus 18 — Moses is warned against unsustainable leadershipMark 6:31 — Jesus calls His disciples away to rest

Why does Exodus 35:2 require the death penalty for working on the Sabbath? Why is working on the Sabbath day such a big deal?

In this in-depth conversation, Darryl McDaniels sits down with Metal Walt to explore the heavy metal and hard rock roots that have been part of his musical identity since childhood. Growing up in New York City, DMC discovered rock and metal through radio, hearing bands like Black Sabbath and Judas Priest at a formative age. He explains how those sounds were already embedded in early hip-hop culture, from DJs digging through crates to the attitude and energy that shaped Run-DMC from the very beginning. The discussion revisits key moments such as “Rock Box” and “Walk This Way,” why rock was always part of Run-DMC's DNA, and how those records opened creative doors that still matter today. DMC also talks about his decision to actively create rock and metal music himself, leading to projects like HellRaisers and his 2026 solo metal single “She Gets Me High.” Additional topics include NYC hardcore roots, playing with Agnostic Front, sharing stages with Sammy Hagar, opening for Lou Reed, and how creativity, authenticity, and curiosity continue to guide his work. 00:00 Show Open & Pre-Roll Tease 04:23 What Music Sounded Like in DMC's House Growing Up 05:58 Discovering Rock on WABC and the First Metal Obsession (Black Sabbath) 09:11 Rock and Early Hip-Hop Culture — DJs, Crates, and Crossover 11:23 “Rock Box” and Why Rock Was Always in Run-DMC's DNA 14:16 “Walk This Way” — History, Impact, and the Permission Moment 25:25 When DMC Decided to Start Making Rock Music 28:10 DMC and the HellRaisers — Live Reactions and Reality 31:25 Rock DNA Across Classic Run-DMC Songs (King of Rock, It's Tricky, Mary, Mary, Why You Buggin') 36:17 “She Gets Me High” — DMC's Solo Metal Direction and Lineup 47:13 Hardcore Roots — Agnostic Front, NYC, and Underground Energy 56:22 Legacy, Creativity, and What DMC Is About Today 01:09:22 Wrap-Up & Where to Follow DMC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

By Joshua Vazquez - This message uses the story of the Israelites' journey through the wilderness to illustrate how God uses trials and tests to teach important lessons, specifically the need to rely on God rather than on one's own strength or material resources. It emphasizes that man does not live by bread alone, but

By Patrick Kansa - While the Church takes it as a fundamental truth that the law of God is still in effect for Christians, many outside of God's Church believe it is done away. This message examines some of the mistaken understandings, and attempts to answer the question of whether or not a Christian should keep God's

By John May - Modern science claims to offer the hope that humans can attain some form of immortal existence apart from God, but that is not the kind of eternal life that God has prepared for humanity. God the Father and Jesus Christ will not grant anyone eternal life who is not seeking to live a life of holiness

By Stephen Bouchette - As we near Passover, we can be reminded why we wash one another's feet as part of this ceremony. We'll explore two key reasons Christ set this example for us to follow: as He laid down His life for us, we should also lay down our lives for others, and we all have a continual need to be cleansed.

By Kevin Call - We've studied the heroes of faith. Each one of these heroes are just like you and I. If we lived in Biblical times, chances are we'd be considered heroes of the Bible. We are called just as them. You don't have to be a superhero to be used by God.

By Peter Eddington - While Jesus walked this earth, He was confronted by the scribes and elders with a number of questions. They were determined to have Him answer what they felt were the most important questions of their time. Do you remember what those pressing questions were? What we can learn from the answers Christ

By Sanford Beattie - After telling the disciples about the events leading up to the end of the age and His coming, Jesus relates 5 parables in rapid succession, the last parables of His ministry. Why? What did they have to do with the prophecies of His return? And what meaning do they have for us?

By Elias Vazquez - This sermonette "The Master Sculptor" compares God's work in our lives to Michelangelo sculpting the statue of David, emphasizing that God sees our true potential beyond our flaws, actively transforms us through life's challenges, and assures us that the process will lead to a spiritual masterpiece

By Craig Scott - Psalm 40:1-3 “New song” is a phrase elsewhere used in connection with deliverance and a new beginning.

By Mark Tannert - Encouragement is much needed in today's society. It should be part of what defines us as Christians and something we should practice at every opportunity.

I greet you in Jesus' precious name! It is Saturday morning, the 24th of January, 2026, and this is your friend, Angus Buchan, with a thought for today. We start in the Book of Exodus 16:15:”So when the children of Israel saw it, they said to one another, “What is it?” For they did not know what it was. And Moses said to them, “This is the bread which the Lord has given you to eat.” Then we go straight to John 6:35:”And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life.” Oh, folks, what a gracious God we serve! I mean those people were starving, over a million of them, and God fed them from heaven. Just enough, never too much and never too little. They got manna from heaven. This is very important, many of us are worrying about things that will never happen. Many of us are trying to make provision for things that we'll never have to use. We need just enough. People are getting stomach ulcers, they are having nervous breakdowns because they are worrying about things that they will never have to account for. We really need to put our trust in the One who said, ”I am the bread.” I am the manna of your life. That's what I'm delivering to you, hot out of the oven. The bread which will sustain you for today, not for yesterday, not for tomorrow, just for today. You see, when they tried to gather more than they needed, what happened? It went rotten, it started to smell. The maggots started to eat it, just enough for today is all we need and then the Lord said, ”And then the day before the Sabbath, you are allowed to take up twice as much because you'll need it because you are not going work on the Sabbath.” Jesus will take care of every one of your needs, not your wants, but your needs. Big difference! Do not work yourself to death to make money that you will never need to use, and by so doing, shorten your life and become a pain to everybody around you because you are constantly worried about things which will never take place.Start to thank God for manna every morning and live your life for Him. Let Him be your sustenance, let Him be everything you need.Jesus bless you and goodbye.

On Today's Show: Dennis Prager asks his listeners over 75 to share what has contributed to their happiness or unhappiness in life. He's looking for insights that might help younger people find happiness. Listeners from across the country share their stories, from Evelyn in Santa Monica, who credits her children and grandchildren for her happiness, to Dave in Cleveland, who says keeping the Sabbath has been key to his contentment. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Click here for the DRB Daily Sign Up form! TODAY'S SCRIPTURE:  Exodus 6-8 ; Luke 23 Click HERE to give! One Year Bible Podcast: Join Hunter and Heather Barnes on the Daily Radio Bible, a daily Bible‑in‑a‑year podcast with 20‑minute Scripture readings, Christ‑centered devotion, and guided prayer.This daily Bible reading and devotional invites you to live as a citizen of Jesus' kingdom, reconciled, renewed, and deeply loved. TODAY'S EPISODE: Welcome to the Daily Radio Bible podcast! In today's episode, Hunter invites us to settle into God's Word as we journey through Exodus 6-8 and Luke 23. This reading takes us from the miraculous signs and growing tension between Moses and Pharaoh, all the way to the profound day of rest that follows Jesus' crucifixion. As Hunter reflects, even in moments of chaos and suffering—like the horrors that unfolded on Good Friday—God draws us into a deeper rest, completed through Christ's work on the cross. We're reminded that, no matter how busy or distracted life might get, God offers us peace, forgiveness, and the invitation to simply receive His rest. Join Hunter as he prays over you, shares encouragement, and reminds us all that the work has been finished and that, in Christ, we are truly loved. Whether you're tuning in for the first time or coming back for daily nourishment, this episode is an invitation to draw near and be transformed by the presence of God. TODAY'S DEVOTION: All hell was breaking loose. And Luke tells us that the people rested. The horrors of this day, the day of Christ's suffering, are culminating in a moment of rest. The women from Galilee who had witnessed Jesus' body being taken down from the cross went home on that horrific day thinking they still had work to do. We're told in verse 56 that they went home and prepared spices and ointments to anoint his body. But by the time they were finished, the Sabbath had begun. So they rested from their work. Even after all of these horrors, they thought that there was still work to be done. What they did not know was that Jesus, on this Good Friday, had completed all the work necessary. So now theirs was to rest. Now the Sabbath had really come. Jesus finished the work so that the girls could rest. He finished the work so that you and I could find rest. On that Friday, Jesus went to work for bystanders and mocking soldiers. He went to work for reluctant Pilate and indulged Herod. He went to work for guilty Barabbas and Simon the Cyrene. Jesus went to work for sign makers, cross builders, common criminals, gamblers, good and righteous men like Joseph of Arimathea, and heartbroken women who are forced to watch at a distance. Jesus was finishing his work on that Friday so that we all could find rest. Jesus was giving his everything. He was working hard. He did for us what we could not do for ourselves. He has done the work—the work of redeeming, rescuing, forgiving the sins of the world. He forgave us because we did not know what we were doing. That's why he came to us. Because we don't know. We're trapped and blinded, unable to save ourselves. We don't know what we're doing. Jesus said so himself on the cross, "Father, forgive them. They don't know what they are doing." Athanasius says, what then was God to do when he saw humanity spiraling into non-being? What was God to do because they didn't know? He would send his Son. Our Lord Jesus would come to rescue us so that at last our eyes would be opened and we would be awakened to life and rest in him. That rest belongs to you. It belongs to all of humanity. He made it free out of the abundance of his heart of love. He did that work. There's nothing left for me to do other than to step in, to say yes, to receive freely the rest that there is in him. And that's the prayer that I have for my own soul. That's the prayer that I have for my family, for my wife and my daughters and my son. And that's the prayer that I have for you. May it be so. TODAY'S PRAYERS: Lord God Almighty and everlasting father you have brought us in safety to this new day preserve us with your Mighty power that we might not fall into sin or be overcome by adversity. And in all we do, direct us to the fulfilling of your purpose  through Jesus Christ Our Lord amen.   Oh God you have made of one blood all the peoples of the earth and sent your blessed son to preach peace to those who are far and those who are near. Grant that people everywhere may seek after you, and find you. Bring the nations into your fold, pour out your Spirit on all flesh, and hasten the coming of your kingdom through Jesus Christ our Lord, Amen.   And now Lord,  make me an instrument of your peace.  Where there is hatred let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon.  Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is despair, hope.  Where there is darkness, light.  And where there is sadness,  Joy.  Oh Lord grant that I might not seek to be consoled as to console. To be understood as to understand, to be loved as to love.  For it is in the giving that we receive, in the pardoning that we are pardoned, it is in the dying that we are born unto eternal life.  Amen And now as our Lord has taught us we are bold to pray... Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven, give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not unto temptation, but deliver us from evil, for thine is the Kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen. Loving God, we give you thanks for restoring us in your image. And nourishing us with spiritual food, now send us forth as forgiven people, healed and renewed, that we may proclaim your love to the world, and continue in the risen life of Christ.  Amen.  OUR WEBSITE: www.dailyradiobible.com We are reading through the New Living Translation.   Leave us a voicemail HERE: https://www.speakpipe.com/dailyradiobible Subscribe to us at YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Dailyradiobible/featured OTHER PODCASTS: Listen with Apple Podcast DAILY BIBLE FOR KIDS DAILY PSALMS DAILY PROVERBS DAILY LECTIONARY DAILY CHRONOLOGICAL  

Dexter B. Wakefield | Recorded November 29, 2025

Dexter B. Wakefield | Recorded November 29, 2025

Leading Into 2026: Executive Pastor Insights Momentum is real. So is the pressure. This free report draws from the largest dedicated survey of Executive Pastors ever, revealing what leaders are actually facing as they prepare for 2026. Why staff health is the #1 pressure point Where churches feel hopeful — and stretched thin What worked in 2025 and is worth repeating Clear decision filters for the year ahead Download the Full Report Free PDF • Built for Executive Pastors • Instant access Welcome back to another episode of the unSeminary podcast. We’re continuing our conversations with executive pastors from prevailing churches, unpacking what leaders like you shared in the National Executive Pastor Survey, so you can lead forward with clarity. Today we're joined by Paul Alexander, Executive Pastor at Sun Valley Community Church and Senior Consultant with The Unstuck Group. With more than 25 years of ministry experience and nearly 15 years at Sun Valley, Paul brings a blend of practitioner insight and coaching wisdom. Sun Valley is one of the fastest-growing churches in the country, with six physical locations, a prison campus, and more expansion on the way. In this conversation, Paul helps unpack one of the most pressing themes from the National Executive Pastor Survey: staff health, culture, and organizational structure. Is your church clear on vision and strategy but still struggling to move forward? Do you sense tension or fatigue beneath the surface of your staff team? Paul offers candid, practical guidance on how leaders can cultivate both healthy and high-performing teams. Staff culture is often the real growth lid. // Many churches leave strategic planning sessions with remarkable clarity—clear vision, strong strategy, and actionable next steps—yet still fail to move forward. The reason is rarely theological or missional; it's cultural. Team culture and staff structure often become the limiting factor. Just as personal growth stalls when internal issues go unresolved, churches stall when unhealthy patterns persist within leadership teams. Healthy and high-performing. // Many churches swing between two extremes: high performance with little concern for soul health, or relational warmth with minimal accountability to achieve the vision. Neither honors the full call of ministry. The healthiest teams refuse to live at either end of the pendulum. Instead, they pursue a culture where people are cared for deeply while being challenged to steward their gifts faithfully toward the mission. You can't legislate health. // Health cannot be enforced through policies alone. Leaders set the tone through example, not rules. Staff watch how senior leaders manage time, rest, family, boundaries, and pressure. Late-night emails, skipped days off, and constant urgency quietly shape expectations—even if leaders say otherwise. Pastors need to lead with moral authority, not moral perfection: modeling rhythms that reflect trust in God rather than fear-driven overwork. Practical rhythms that protect people. // At Sun Valley, staff health is reinforced through intentional systems. Leaders are expected to take their days off and use vacation time; reports track whether staff actually do. Full-time staff receive sabbaticals every seven years, including non-director-level roles. Marriage retreats are offered as a gift to staff couples, recognizing that healthier marriages produce healthier ministry. These investments cost little financially but yield long-term fruit in sustainability and trust. Hire leaders, not doers. // A common staffing pitfall is hiring doers instead of leaders. While competence and skill earn someone a seat on the team at Sun Valley, long-term effectiveness depends on their ability to develop others. Staff are evaluated not on how much ministry they personally accomplish, but on how well they equip volunteers to lead. Volunteers are the heroes; staff exist to serve and multiply them. This mindset shifts ministry from bottlenecked to scalable. Structure must evolve with growth. // Churches often treat structure as fixed, but Paul insists that growing churches must restructure continually. Span of care, staffing ratios, and role clarity must be revisited regularly. He points to healthy benchmarks—such as staffing costs and staff-to-attendance ratios—as helpful indicators, not rigid rules. When leaders ignore structure, culture suffers; when structure is aligned, momentum increases. Fruit requires clarity and measurement. // Every staff role at Sun Valley includes measurable outcomes. Paul likens this to personal goals—no one expects a marriage to improve without intentional action. Clear metrics create focus, alignment, and accountability. Monthly one-on-ones blend personal care with performance review, ensuring leaders are supported holistically while still moving the mission forward. Encouragement for leaders sensing tension. // For executive pastors who feel something is “off” but can't quite name it, Paul urges them not to ignore that instinct. Growth exposes weaknesses, and structure or culture may need adjustment. Whether the issue is misalignment, unclear expectations, or misplaced roles, addressing it early prevents deeper damage later. To learn more about Sun Valley Community Church, visit sunvalleycc.com. For resources on staff health, structure, and strategy, explore theunstuckgroup.com or email Paul directly. Watch the full episode below: Thank You for Tuning In! There are a lot of podcasts you could be tuning into today, but you chose unSeminary, and I'm grateful for that. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it by using the social media buttons you see at the left hand side of this page. Also, kindly consider taking the 60-seconds it takes to leave an honest review and rating for the podcast on iTunes, they're extremely helpful when it comes to the ranking of the show and you can bet that I read every single one of them personally! Thank You to This Episode’s Sponsor: SermonDone Hey friends, Sunday is coming… is your Sermon Done?Pastor, you don't need more pressure—you need support. That's why you need to check out SermonDone—the premium AI assistant built exclusivelyfor pastors. SermonDone helps you handle the heavy lifting: deep sermon research, series planning, and even a theologically aligned first draft—in your voice—because it actually trains on up to 15 of your past sermons. But it doesn't stop there. With just a click, you can instantly turn your message into small group guides, discussion questions, and even kids curriculum. It's like adding a research assistant, a writing partner, and a discipleship team—all in one. Try it free for 5 days. Head over to www.SermonDone.com and use promo code Rich20 for 20% off today! Episode Transcript Rich Birch — Hey friends, welcome to the unSeminary podcast. Really glad that you’ve decided to tune in. We’re doing a special series here this month where we’re looking at the results of a national survey that we did of executive pastors across the country. And we’ve pulled in some leading XPs from prevailing churches to help us think through these issues. Like we’re sitting across the table, if you talk about this problem, they want to help you with that. And today it’s our honor, our privilege really to have Paul Alexander with us. He is the executive pastor at Sun Valley Church for over 10 years. He has 25 years of experience. He’s a senior consultant with Unstuck, I think for 13 years. And he’s worked with all kinds of churches on health assessment, strategic planning. Sun Valley, if you don’t know this church, you’re living under a rock. fantastic church in Arizona, six physical locations, if I’m counting correctly, plus in prison, plus online. It’s repeatedly one of the fastest growing churches in the country. Paul, welcome to the show. So glad you’re here.Paul Alexander — Yeah, Rich, glad to be with you. Hopefully the conversation can help your listeners, man.Rich Birch — I really appreciate that. Why why don’t you fill in the picture about Sun Valley? I know we’ve had you on in the past. You should go back and listen, friends, but kind of give us the Sun Valley picture. Kind of tell us a little bit about that to set some context today.Paul Alexander — Yeah, man, been here now for almost 15 years. It’s wild to think back. When I first joined the team, it was one location, 10 acres, one exit, one entrance.Rich Birch — Wow.Paul Alexander — And, you know, there’s a lid to what you can do with that. And so we had originally went multi-site because we had to go multi-site. You know, the mission that Jesus gave the church to help more people meet him and grow up in their friendship with him. We had a lid to that with the space we were in. And so we had to go multi-site. It wasn’t cool. It wasn’t cute. It wasn’t fun. It wasn’t an experiment. It was like, if we’re going to obey Jesus, we don’t have an option.Rich Birch — Right. Yes.Paul Alexander — And so over the years, we’ve had the opportunity to add new locations. And, yeah, six physical locations, one in a prison. Our next prison campus opens up Q1. We grand open our Chandler location in March, and we break ground on San Tan in May. So, yeah, man, fun times, lots of people meeting Jesus.Rich Birch — So multi-sites not dead at Sun Valley.Paul Alexander — Man, multi-site’s not dead in America. Yeah.Rich Birch — I know. And it’s true, right? It’s one of those like, people are like, oh, I don’t know. That’s an old idea. I’m like, that’s not what I’m seeing. I’m like, gosh, there’s so many prevailing churches like Sun Valley that are just doubling down. That’s that’s fantastic. Rich Birch — Well, looking forward to today’s conversation. So friends, you’ve joined us actually for within, what did we ask, two questions that were about fears for next year and or for this year, 2026, you caught me. We recorded this late in 2025.Rich Birch — And we’re talking today about the biggest fear. 24.8% of all respondents identified staff health, organizational structure, morale, succession, leadership – the people issues as a primary fear heading into this year. In fact, and then a separate question we asked about data and insight. Where are you lacking some of that? Almost 9% of respondents answered that they’re looking for better data on staff pipeline and org chart and leadership development, these sort of things.Rich Birch — When you combine them together what does that mean? Nearly three in ten surface staff related tension as a defining pressure point for 2026. And when I was thinking about this issue, I thought of no one better than Paul to pull on and to have this conversation with. So Paul, when you look at the churches across the country, you interact with a lot of churches both just because you’re a great person and through Unstuck, and you’re and Sun Valley’s a leading church and people will ask you questions all the time. Where do you think staff health breaks down the most and why is that? Why is this such a tension for us as we lead from our seats?Paul Alexander — Yeah, well, to your point, Rich, it comes up repeatedly with my work with Unstuck with churches. It’s not uncommon to do a health assessment, strategic planning with the church, and you walk out of the room and they have great clarity on vision, on where they’re going next. They have great clarity on strategy, like how they’re actually going to pull this off and do it.Paul Alexander — And yet you walk out of the room and the lid to move towards that vision, actually obey Jesus and do what Jesus has commissioned and command commanded them to do, the lid is the culture of the team. And the team culture and the team structure is what’s holding them back from going where Jesus wants them to go. Paul Alexander — Which we shouldn’t be surprised by this, frankly. that’s That’s the organizational side of how that shows up. This shows up in our own life personally. So on a micro scale, what’s preventing you and I from actually following Jesus and what He’s calling us to do in 2026? Well, it’s not Jesus’s problem. The problem is not with him. The problem usually with us.Rich Birch — Yes.Paul Alexander — The problem is with how we structure our life, our family, our time, maybe something in our own heart and in the culture of our own heart and our families.Paul Alexander — And so on on a macro scalele scale in the church, it’s not a surprise that this shows up. Most most churches have a tendency to run on a pendulum, Rich, of either being a really high performing team or a very, very healthy team. And at Unstuck, we want we want staff teams to be both very healthy and very high performing.Paul Alexander — The the problem is most churches, their staff swing through that pendulum from one side to the other. And so, and you’ve seen this repeatedly, where it’s take ground and in just do the next thing. And they’re very project oriented and destination oriented, and they have a tendency to not really care about the soul of the team, the health of the team, and they’re caring much more about the the destination they’re chasing.Paul Alexander — Or they’re sitting around looking at each other, praying for one another, kumbaya-ing together, and they’re neglecting the actual call that God’s put on their life. It’s not just a personal holiness, but to invite others people other people to know Jesus as well.Paul Alexander — And while that’s an over-exaggeration, fundamentally, that’s very true of what happens with staff teams. And so, yeah, walking away from a strategic planning with the church, you’re thinking, oh, they’ve got everything they need.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — They just don’t have the culture to pull it off. their Their staff culture is going to prevent them from going where God wants them to go. Or they’ve hired ah a lot of doers on the team and they don’t actually have leaders. So they’ve hired people to do ministry instead of lead ministry. Or they don’t really have a development pipeline. You know, they don’t have a plan to coach up and build up people that the Lord’s already entrusted to them right underneath their nose, to invite them into leadership in the church. And so, yeah, there’s some overarching things that are common.Rich Birch — Yeah, so when I saw this came out, I wasn’t surprised by this result. We’ve seen similar results in past years. But whenever I look at this fear that leaders have, I’m reminded what our mutual friend Jenni Catrin says. She talks about senior leaders are, we think our staff culture is better than it actually is. Like from our perspective, sitting as an executive pastor, lead pastor, we look around and we’re like, man, this is a great place to work. But that’s not necessarily the case with our people. Rich Birch — Sticking with this idea of like high performing and healthy, when you think about Sun Valley or the churches you coach, what are some practical rhythms or structures that you’ve put in place or seen put in place that really help try to do both of those things. Cause I think that’s, I think that’s ultimately what honors the Lord is like, we do want to be high performing. We, the mission’s massive. Like, gosh, we got to get out and reach some people, but we, we don’t want to drive over our people to get there. Paul Alexander — Yeah.Rich Birch — Help us understand what does that practical, some of those practical rhythms look like.Paul Alexander — Well, I don’t I don’t think a lot of XPs are going like what I’m about to say… Rich Birch — Uh-oh. Paul Alexander — …but you you cannot legislate health. You can’t. You can’t build enough guidelines. You can’t build enough policies. You can’t make people be healthy. You also can’t lead a healthy organization unless you yourself are healthy. It’s that’s a just it’s just a fact. You can’t take your family somewhere you haven’t been.Paul Alexander — You disciple people, to use a Bible word for a second, you can’t disciple your own children and your own family and people close to you by intention or neglect. We do that all the time, and unless you have something to actually give them. And so this is why even in the Old Testament, you know God gives the law and we realize we can’t live up to the law. And so it honestly only shows our own imperfection. Right. And so God you know, Jesus says, “Well, hold on a second. The Sabbath was made for man. Man wasn’t made for the Sabbath.” Paul Alexander — And so um what does that mean? It means, I think, as executive staff, senior staff in the church, you actually have to lead with some moral authority in this area. And so people are going to watch if if they get an email from you at 11 o’clock at night, that tells them what’s expected of them. Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Without you ever even saying it, you’re telling them what’s expected. If you’re texting them after work hours, so to speak, and it’s not an emergency, it actually, you know, it could probably wait till tomorrow, but you’re having it right now because it’s important to you, and you don’t have the personal self-control to be able to not have that conversation with that staff member at that time.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Paul Alexander — You’re telling them how they’re supposed to behave. They’re watching you just again, leadership so much like parenting. And I don’t want to minimize this, but children watch their parents and they naturally adhere to and take on the behaviors of their parents and the family unit that they grow up in. Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so true.Paul Alexander — And culture a lot like that. It’s way more caught than taught. And so the leaders of the executive staff and senior staff, they’ve got to lead with moral authority, not moral perfection. We’re not going to see that this side of seeing Jesus, right? Not moral superiority. We’re not better than anybody. But just to be able to say, hey, man, if if everybody at my church and on my staff. If they manage their time the way I manage my time, if they manage their finances the way I manage my finances, if they used alcohol the way I use alcohol, or if they use the internet or social media the way I do, if they traded their… would my church be more of what Jesus wants it to be or less?Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s so good.Paul Alexander — And so there’s a moral authority component to this. They got to model this. Okay.Paul Alexander — Now, practically, Rich, because you know, okay, what does it actually mean? Take your time off. Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Like that sounds so silly, but I mean, I remember as a young guy in ministry, my my wife was working Monday through Friday. Friday was supposed to be my day off. I’m not the kind of guy that’s going to sit around and like watch Oprah on Friday. Or like, you know, just snack and binge watch Netflix or something like that. That’s not how God wired me up. And so I would just go into the office.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — And I’m like, my my wife’s working. Well, we don’t have kids. um I’m going to go get some stuff done. I’m going to move the ball forward.Rich Birch — Yeah.Paul Alexander — And I remember the XP I was working with on the senior staff at the time came in to get something out of the office. And he saw me and he’s like, Paul, what are you what are you doing? And so I do the whole, my wife’s working and I’m not going to sit around and watch Netflix, blah, blah, blah. He’s like… he gave me a gift. He said, Paul, if you don’t take every day off between now and the end of the year, don’t bother coming in in January.Rich Birch — Oh my goodness.Paul Alexander — Yeah, yeah, yeah.Rich Birch — Wow.Paul Alexander — And looking back, that high challenge was a tremendous gift, to begin to teach a young man in ministry that had a propensity to drive hard to learn how to actually slow down and enjoy my life and receive from the Lord.Rich Birch — That’s interesting.Paul Alexander — And so, um yeah, take your day off. It sounds so silly.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s so good. No, it’s good.Paul Alexander — I get a report on my desk once a year, Rich, of all of our staff, even multiple campuses, all that, who’s taking their time off and who hasn’t taken their time off. And it’s not uncommon for me to have a conversation in January to say, hey, dude, if you don’t take all your time off this year, we’re going to have a problem. Because you’re no good burning out. The Lord needs you in the game for the long run.Rich Birch — Yeah.Paul Alexander — And I need you in the game for the long run. Sun Valley needs you in the game for the long run. Rich Birch — Yeah. Right. Paul Alexander — Your family needs that, and you can’t self destruct. So.Rich Birch — Yeah, it’s so good. I had a similar interaction early on in ministry where I had a senior leader say to me, it with a similar kind of tone, don’t forget, take your day off is on the same list as don’t kill someone. Like, you know, which always stuck with me where I was like, you know, okay. And he said it in a funny kind of like, but but the message was was clear, right?Paul Alexander — Yeah.Rich Birch — Same kind of thing. Hey, we, and I don’t know that I’ve always lived by that. Paul Alexander — Yeah, sure.Rich Birch — Are there other behaviors that you, you know, in a similar way would lean in. I think the fact that you’re pushing on, okay, as us as senior leaders, are we setting the pace with the health of our organizations? Lean a little bit more in on that for us.Paul Alexander — Yeah, sure. So a couple of practical things that any leader can actually make their decision to start doing today. Establish a finish line. In some regards, you know, when is ministry ever really done? Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Well, when 7.5 billion people on the planet know Jesus, we’re done, right? So it’s one of those, the poor will have you with you you’ll have with you always. There’s never going to be a done moment. So you got to choose each day when you’re done. And if you don’t choose it, someone else will choose it for you. Paul Alexander — And so talk with your family, figure it out. And there may be a moving target from day to day and what the rhythm of your family is and the rhythm of your ministry is the Lord’s entrusted to you. But you have to personally establish when’s the finish line. I’m going to turn my phone off. I’m gonna turn my email off. I’m going to mute this or whatever. And unless something’s burning down, I’m not going to I’m not going to jump in. Simple things.Paul Alexander — Marriage retreats. We started experimenting some time ago with marriage retreats for our staff at Sun Valley. And so like everybody would say, it’s a good thing for people’s marriages to get better. And sometimes we’ll do that for our people in our churches. And we just thought, well, gosh, what if we did that for our staff? You know, if the marriages of our staff got better, would the ministries that the Lord’s entrusted to them get better? Of course they would.Rich Birch — Of course they would, yeah.Paul Alexander — So we just started doing a marriage retreat couple times a year for our staff.Rich Birch — Wow.Paul Alexander — We invite, you know, 10 to 15 couples. We have a professional counselor that we pay for that runs the thing. And we we just do that as a as a gift to our staff. Because we think, if our staff marriages get better, the ministry that the Lord’s entrusted to them will get better. Paul Alexander — We do sabbaticals every seven years for our full-time director level staff and up. And there’s a period of time that they get and a financial allowance they get. And they think about it in three in three different buckets, like professional development, personal development, and just family. And and ultimately we want them to rest so they can minister from a from a full cup, you know?Paul Alexander — And ah some time ago, we actually made the decision. It didn’t cost us anything, Rich, that even our full-time staff, no matter what their level in the organization was. So for example, a full-time administrative assistant. If they’re full-time, every seven years they get a sabbatical. We give them… Rich Birch — Oh, wow.Paul Alexander — …yeah, you’re full-time admin at Sun Valley. You get, now the scale of it’s a little different.Rich Birch — Sure.Paul Alexander — We just give them a month off with no financial allowance, but we give a month off every seven years to take at one lump sum… Rich Birch — Wow. Paul Alexander — …to get out and refresh their soul and enjoy their life a little bit. What’s that really cost us? Nothing, but time.Rich Birch — Right. Right.Paul Alexander — Nothing.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — And so, yeah, there’s some real tactical things that you can do to invest in your team. Again, you can’t make them be healthy people, but you can kind of roll the carpet out and pave the way for them to be healthy people.Rich Birch — I love that. That’s some real practical examples. I love what you’ve you’ve outlined there and been you know super practical. That’s, yeah, that’s fantastic. I get the sabbatical question actually quite a bit. I think churches wrestle with that and they you know they they think, oh, you know how should we do that? So you do, kind of like what we would typically think of as a sabbatical at director and above, but then everyone else does kind of this one one month off. That’s great. And they do they have to submit a plan for the sabbatical ahead of time? Some churches will do that where they have to kind of define, hey, this is how we’re going to do. Just give us a little more detail on that.Paul Alexander — Yeah. We’re not uber religious about it, Rich. Rich Birch — Sure. Paul Alexander — We, we, we, there is a plan and their supervisor talks through their plan with them… Rich Birch — Yeah. Paul Alexander — …because there’s a financial allowance that follows that. Rich Birch — Yep.Paul Alexander — So yeah, they have the conversation ahead of time. As a representative of the board, I actually sign off on all those sabbaticals just to make sure they’re thinking about and they’re thinking…Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — …intelligently about how they want to spend their time. But functionally, to be honest, like you and your wife just went on vacation, right?Rich Birch — Yep.Paul Alexander — If our staff went on vacation for like an entire sabbatical and sat on the beach for a month or two, and they came back a little bit more rested, and they’d read a couple of books and spent time with the Lord… Rich Birch — Right. Paul Alexander — …and they walked and prayed and fasted and enjoyed their life a little bit, they’d probably come back a little healthier. Rich Birch — Right. Yeah, that’s great.Paul Alexander — So I don’t have strong feelings about it, man. Rest, enjoy your life.Rich Birch — Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.Paul Alexander — Yeah.Rich Birch — That’s so good. I love that. I want to loop back on one thing you talked about earlier. You talked about hiring or or are the way our staff position themselves as doers versus leaders. I think this is a critical Ephesians 4, how we’re supposed to be equipping our people. But I see way too many of our team members, I see us fall into this all the time where we just slip into doing. Coach us around that. What difference does that make around cultures in our organizations?Paul Alexander — Well, yeah. Wow. Now you’re starting to talk about where accountability comes into play in culture, right? And where culture gets violated.Paul Alexander — So it’s not uncommon. So I still, at the size we are, director level and up, I still at least have a phone conversation interview with every single director level hire and up about our culture as they’re joining the team here. And if they do join the team, we go through net new staff orientation. Once a quarter, Chad, the lead pastor and myself, spend a half a day with all of our new staff and talk through our culture and our philosophy of ministry and our strategy and all that stuff.Paul Alexander — And frankly, it’s just a time to hang out have a meal together and create some relational accessibility. Because most these people I’m not going to work with day to day. Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — But I want them to know that we care about them, love them, and they’re they’re part of the family now. And so we we don’t hire people that aren’t absolutely fantastic, incredibly gifted people. Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — And it’s easy to compliment everybody in the room. Rich Birch — Right. Paul Alexander — Hey man, glad you’re on the team. Whether I hired you or somebody else hired you, I know you’re awesome because we don’t hire people that aren’t awesome. And you were gifted, you’re gifted. Someone saw something in you. We invited you to the team. But here’s the deal. You’re no longer going to be evaluated on how awesome you are. Now that you’re on the team—congratulations—you’re going to be evaluated how awesome you can make everybody else. Rich Birch — So good.Paul Alexander — And so your job and how great you are and gifted you are and skilled you are, that’s what got you in the room. What’s going to keep you in the room is your ability to make everybody else just as incredible as you. And so we just say that from the very beginning. Paul Alexander — And, you know, a lot of churches, their ministry staff kind of think, OK, I have to get all these volunteers in place to help them accomplish my ministry. At Sun Valley, we flipped that upside down. And the hero of the ministry at Sun Valley is the volunteer. We’re helping the church actually be the church. The staff’s role is to be a servant, to help people find their gifting, their place, their calling. And real leaders who are getting paid real money that attend your churches, um they want to solve big problems. They don’t want to just push a broom. Now, occasionally you run into the CEO or the general or whatever, who’s like, I just want to push a broom to help me remain humble. Great. We can we have a lot of brooms you can push.Rich Birch — Yes.Paul Alexander — But most people are competent, skilled, gifted, educated people. And they want to be called into something that’s big, and where they feel like they’re making a real difference. And so, yeah, our job as a staff is to call them into that, tee them up for that, support them in that, and let them run. Not let them run within the boundaries of our strategy and our culture and our vision, but let them run. So, but we’ve got to paint the riverbanks for them.Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s really good. I love that. You know, kind of a related issue is how how is Sun Valley ensuring that you’ve got the right people in the right seats? What does that look like in your system? Like, how are you, like, what’s the what’s the cadence of, you know, regular reporting and like goal setting? Paul Alexander — Yeah.Rich Birch — And, you know, how are you holding people accountable? What does that what does that look like? I realize that could be like a whole episode in of itself… Paul Alexander — Sure. Rich Birch — …but give us kind of a thumbnail version of that.Paul Alexander — Yeah. Thumbnail. I mean, at the end of the day, I’ll give you the, how it happens, but, besides the hiring process and recruiting process, that stuff matters a lot. Right. So you’re inviting people to something that they’re actually gifted and called to. But at the end of the day, um it’s really results, Rich. The Bible way to say that is fruit. Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — OK, for all of our listeners who are high on the theology side of things, I can sympathize with you. I went to Bible school, too. Really, it’s fruit. And when you are in a place, when your staff are in a place where they’re playing to their strengths and their gifting, and they’re in a place where they’re not overreaching and trying to attain a different role, and they’re not talking about career path, they’re just content to be the person and play the part in the body of the Lord’s gifted and call them to to play, they’re going to have more fun and they’re going to produce more fruit.Rich Birch — Yep.Paul Alexander — It’s just a fact. And so when when you see all this striving and, you know, this ambition to like, I want more, I want more, I want more. It’s a very American, Western idea, right? And the biblical way of doing that would be, hey, well why don’t you be faithful with what the Lord’s entrusted with you today? And when he sees fit to entrust more to you, guess what? He probably will.Rich Birch — He will.Paul Alexander — There’s probably going be some stray arrow out of the battle that was never even intended to hit that guy. It’s going to find just the right place in the chink in the armor. And you’re going to ascend to the throne at the right time when the Lord wants you to. So, you know, relax. Do what the Lord’s called you to do today.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Be faithful in that.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — And he’ll entrust more to you when he’s ready.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — So that’s a big deal. that it may sound ah like a contrite, a little bit Bible answer to that. But when your staff are personally in a place where they’re doing what God’s called them to do, and they’re they’re very sober-minded about that, they’re going to have more fun. That’s really important. They’re go to have more fun in ministry. It’s going to be more fulfilling and they’re going to produce more fruit.Paul Alexander — Now, how’s that work its way out with what you’re talking about? We have an annual run of strategic planning that we do, both senior staff and then at the campus level. And that we refresh that every single year. Out of that come real clear objectives where the Lord’s calling us to go. Then goals, professional goals are set around that at the campus level. And then that kind of trickles down. That all gets into review systems. There’s monthly one-on-ones where they’re talking about the performance side of things.Paul Alexander — But it’s really normal, Rich, where if you and I were working with one another and I was reporting to you, you’d say, hey, Paul, what’s going on with you and Lisa? And you’d be asking about my daughters and you’d be asking about my sons. And we’d be talking about life and marriage and family. And and what’s the Lord doing in your life? What’s he saying to you these days? You know, and you know where’s he challenging you? Where’s he encouraging you? So they’re very natural, normal, that part of things there. You’d probably pray for me actually in that meeting that one-on-one. Paul Alexander — And then we talk about, okay, how are we doing with our goals? What what are the measurables? What are the setbacks? Because there’s always setbacks. Rich Birch — Right. Paul Alexander — And what are the things that went faster than you thought they would go? And you’re finding real real traction.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — And then my your job as a supervisor would be, how do you get roadblocks out of the way for me to be successful? Rich Birch — Right. Paul Alexander — How do you fuel things that I need fueled so I can be successful and and reach my goals? Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good. Paul Alexander — So yeah, does that make sense? Rich Birch — That makes total sense. So I, you know, in other contexts, I’ve said results matter because the work that you do matters so much. Like and, and we, and we, we want to think about results. We want to think about fruit. What percentage of, or you know, in a round sense of the team at Sun Valley has like a number or a metric or a like they can measure, it’s not like qualitative, like, oh, things are better. It’s like, no, no, we know. I know whether this is working or not. What percentage of your people you think have a metric like that they they think about on a regular basis?Paul Alexander — All of them.Rich Birch — Love it. Tell us about that. I think this is going to be mind blowing for leaders of churches who do not think about these things. And I know, you know, there’s people out there who, who they they haven’t wrestled with this idea. Unpack that a little bit more.Paul Alexander — Yeah. So, I mean, okay. So if I say, I want my marriage to get better this year, we’ll go real personal for a second. Rich Birch — Sure.Paul Alexander — I want to get my marriage. That’s wonderful. Who doesn’t want their marriage to get better? How are you going to do that?Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — That that just doesn’t magically happen. You don’t drift towards relational intimacy with your spouse.Rich Birch — Yes.Paul Alexander — What you do is you drift apart. That’s what happens.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Absence doesn’t make the grow heart grow fonder. It makes it wander. Rich Birch — Yes. Paul Alexander — And so, you know, you’ve got to figure out, okay, how many date nights am I going to do? How much am I going to budget towards this? Are we going to do an annual retreat as a husband and a spouse together, maybe a marriage retreat? Are we going to go on vacation? What are the conversations we feel like we need to lean into? Do we need some do we need some coaching? Rich, if you’re a professional counselor, do I need to go to you and get some some input and some professional coaching? Because goodness gracious, you can see some things that I don’t see because I’m in the fray of it day in and day out. Paul Alexander — So yeah, we’ll get real tactical and say, what book are you going to read? How many of those books are you going to read? What podcast? Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Are you going listen to the unSeminary podcast? You know. What are you going to do to to grow and in your marriage this year or as a leader. And so, yeah, if you can’t measure it, then you can’t actually do it. Rich Birch — Right. Paul Alexander — And then it gets down to opinions and, you know, everybody’s got one of those. So.Rich Birch — Yeah. Alright. I imagine imagine I’m an executive pastor you meet at a conference or you’re somewhere and you’re at an airport lounge, and they’re church of a thousand people, maybe 1500 people. They’ve got 10 staff and they’re sensing that, man, there’s some misalignment, but it’s it’s at the level of like, I think there might be a problem here. I’m not entirely sure. I feel like there’s cracks starting to happen in the staff culture, but it’s not like a giant fizzer. It’s just like things just don’t feel right. What would be some of the first steps that you would suggest a leader take to try to get clarity on actually where things are at with their staff team… Paul Alexander — Yeah. Rich Birch — …you know, in the next 90 days kind of thing?Paul Alexander — Yeah, that’s a good question. Okay, so first of all, I’d say, and this may sound, I mean, play Captain Obvious for a second, don’t ignore that inclination.Rich Birch — That’s good.Paul Alexander — So the Holy Spirit is is is impressing upon you, something doesn’t smell right, then it probably doesn’t smell right.Rich Birch — That’s good.Paul Alexander — Don’t bury that. Don’t avoid that. Avoiding something you know you have to solve is never going to make that situation better, ever.Rich Birch — That’s so true.Paul Alexander — And so don’t avoid it. Go with that feeling. Lean into it a little bit and and begin. Why? Why do I feel this way? What is what am I sensing that needs to be solved? Because my hunch is they’re anticipating something. If they are a good intuitive leader, they’re probably anticipating something before it’s going to happen.Paul Alexander — And so structure is always a lid to growth in a church. Churches always need to restructure. This is really important. So once you get a structure, it’s not like, oh we’re going to be with this structure for the next 15 years. Rich Birch — Right. Paul Alexander — And if it’s a growing church, you’re always going to need to restructure. And that’s just normal. Get used to it.Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — It’s just part of what it is. Rich Birch — Yes.Paul Alexander — And so I think you’ve got decipher, is it a structure issue or is it a culture issue? That that’s, you know, Wwhat am I sensing that needs to be actually needs to be solved? If it’s a culture issue, where is there a violation of your culture taking place, and how do you help it get better? Maybe you haven’t defined what your culture is. Rich Birch — Right.Paul Alexander — Maybe you can’t actually really articulate it. Maybe you haven’t written it down, trained it. Maybe you have not filmed 5 to 10 minute videos for every new staff member to to onboarding to actually understand your cultural distinctives. Maybe you’ve not embedded that into your annual reviews and actually, you know at review time, you’re actually reviewing me on how we’re doing, how I’m doing with our staff culture.Paul Alexander — So maybe that’s something you need to just kind of look in the mirror and say, you know what, as a leader, I have the power to change that. And I’m going to get that better this next year. We’re going really clear about what our staff culture is. Rich Birch — Yeah, that’s good.Paul Alexander — And then we’re going embed that and train it. If it’s a structural thing, is it truly a structural thing or do you have one or two players that just aren’t playing their part? You know, you’ve got ah this wonderful body the Lord’s put together. He talks about the church being the body of Christ, this wonderful body but where we’re limping because our ankle, we got a bum ankle. And the reality is we either need to rest it, you know, so we can get it healed up. We need to maybe get some repair done to it, or we need to like reconstruct that thing. We need a new ankle. Rich Birch — Yeah.Paul Alexander — All of those are fine answers. And I think just being honest about the team that we have and everybody playing in the right place. And then structurally, you start to get into span of care and you know do we have the right number of staff? Those are real answers you can really get. When we do staffing and structure with churches at the Unstuck Group, there are real healthy benchmarks. There are real healthy financial numbers that are good benchmarks, you know. If you’re spending more than 50 cents on the dollar on your staffing, you should ask yourself why.Paul Alexander — You know, if you have more than your staffing, you’re, you know, beyond one to 75 and you’re creeping into an area that’s really unhealthy. You know, I’ve seen churches that are staffed like one full time staff member for every 30 attenders at the church.Rich Birch — Right, right.Paul Alexander — And you’re just like. It’s sad, frankly, because the Lord’s called us to so much more. And um so those are those are like the basic science side of things that need to be changed. You know, if you’re not clear about who your senior staff is, if you got, if your senior staff, like your executive staff, are making decisions about like the color of the carpet, and they’re making decisions that that are low-level decisions, then you kind of got to look in the mirror and say, boy, are we training our staff that all big decisions have to come to us? Or are we pushing decisions down and actually teaching people how to lead and make decisions? So myriad of things.Rich Birch — That’s good. That’s so good. One of, in last year’s, kind of rundown of, you know, most listened to podcasts, Amy from the Unstuck Group, hers, I think was our second most listened to podcast. And she, she dove in deep on exactly what we were just talking about their, friends. You should go back in the archives, find that episode. It will, it’ll, you know, all that structure stuff. Rich Birch — And I would say on that, particularly on structure and some of those benchmarks, I think too many of us think our church is like this precious, it’s so different than every other church out there. And and and that’s true. It is a unique body. There’s a there’s one way that that is true. But in this way, there are actually a lot of commonalities you can learn from other churches and gain wisdom from folks like Paul who have done this before and talked with lots of churches. So don’t don’t be in isolation about this, Paul. This has been an incredibly helpful. I’ve got a page of notes and other questions I wanted to ask as we were going through. Oh, I want to talk about that. Oh, I want to talk about that.Rich Birch — But I know you’ve got other things to do than be on our podcast. But as you’re thinking about the 2026, the year coming up here, what’s a question or two that you’re wrestling with that you’re thinking through? It doesn’t have to be on what we just talked about there. But just as you think about the future of Sun Valley, what are some things that you’re thinking about going into this year?Paul Alexander — Yeah, that’s a good question. I mean, we pressure we’ve deal with pressure points just like every church does, right? Frankly, the pressure points we’re dealing with, we’re going through a season of a couple of years of pretty significant growth. A lot of people needing Jesus. last This is the first time in back-to-back years we baptized more than 1500 people, you know, in back-to-back years. And so there’s a huge responsibility that our growth, our front end growth is beginning to outpace our engagement. Things like people engaging in groups and building meaningful friendships that are around God’s word or, engaging and volunteering and being the church, not just coming to church, right? And a giving, learning to be generous, generous and steward with the Lord’s entrusted to them. Kind of these markers that we see of people who are actually beginning to look like Jesus. They’re not just, you know, you know, attending church and trying to figure Jesus out a little bit.Paul Alexander — And so in a lot of ways, we need a bigger boat. We’ve got multiple campuses that are doing two services on Saturday and three services on Sunday. And we’ve, we’ve got to get some bigger rooms. And you know, the other side of it is is growth sometimes can grow faster than our ability to grow leaders. I mean, you think about your own personal leadership, Rich. I mean, how long has it taken you to become the leader you are today?Rich Birch — Right. Right. Not overnight. Not in 18 months.Paul Alexander — Yeah, your whole life.Rich Birch — Yes, exactly.Paul Alexander — Yeah, the answer is your whole life. Rich Birch — Yes.Paul Alexander — And so there’s definitely been crucible moments. My hunch is if we unpack your leadership journey, there’s been crucible moments where the Lord has ah stretched and grown you in unique ways and unique seasons because of pressure points that you went through. And so um we’re figuring out how do we accelerate leadership in in our staff?Rich Birch — That’s good.Paul Alexander — And you you accelerate leadership not by by giving resources, but by constricting resources. Because leaders always figured out and grow through constriction moments. Rich Birch — That’s good.Paul Alexander — And so giving stretch assignments, all those kind of fun things. So yeah, we deal with pressure points just like everybody else does. I mean, everybody’s like, oh, I’d love to have that problem. I know you would. It’s a wonderful problem to have. It’s still a problem because we don’t want to become a lid to more people meeting Jesus in 2026. You know, by us not solving something that’s in our control to solve.Rich Birch — Yeah. In other contexts, I’ve talked about platinum problems. Those are are great problems, but they’re still problems with things we have to wrestle with. And and friends, if you’re not tracking with Sun Valley, you should be, or Paul or the Unstuck Group, these are all organizations you should be getting a chance to kind of follow along with. If people want to kind of connect with the church, get a better sense, follow along with your story, where do we want to send them online? Tell us about that. And then also Unstuck Group. I want to make sure we we send people there too.Paul Alexander — Yeah, Unstuck Group is super easy to find. Unstuckgroup.com. The listeners can email me at paul@theunstuckgroup.com. That’s the easiest way to get me, frankly. The easiest, cleanest way to get me if someone has a question or wants to follow up on something personally. I’m happy to do that, man.Rich Birch — Thanks so much, Paul. I appreciate you being here today and and really looking forward to seeing what happens in 2026 at Sun Valley. Take care, man.Paul Alexander — Yeah, glad to, man. Thanks for the invitation. Hope the conversation is helpful.

Can a digital Sabbath really work in 2026? Dom Bettinelli, Pat Scott, and Fr. Andrew Kinstetter tackle whether constant connectivity is stealing our peace—and how intentional tech boundaries can restore prayer, family life, and freedom. The post The Digital Sabbath: A Rule for Life appeared first on StarQuest Media.

Topics: Early Church Popular Verse, Masterclass, It's So Cold, Shame, Shock Jock, the Bible About Jesus, Dabbing Resolution, Broken Heart/Broken Windshield, Jesus and the Party, Ax Over Fries, Sabbath, Reservations On The Moon BONUS CONTENT: Perfect Half-Time Show, It's So Cold Follow-up     Quotes: "This is not a knock, knock." "Has anyone asked you for that?" "And the penguin said…" "God knows you better than you know yourself and He still wants to do life with you." "Do what He says." - Mary "You DO NOT want to miss meeting with God." . . . Holy Ghost Mama Pre-Order! Want more of the Oddcast? Check out our website! Watch our YouTube videos here. Connect with us on Facebook!

By Jorge de Campos - Paul's instructions to Timothy in relation to false teachers.

By Ken Loucks - This Bible study examines why the Bereans were singled out for praise—not for enthusiasm or tradition, but for how they handled truth. It challenges us to consider whether we come to services merely to listen or to engage seriously with what God's Word actually says. By walking through Acts 17:11

On today's episode, we discuss Louisiana “three-week winters,” ice storms, and Glenn's layered home power setup with solar, grid, and generator backup as the guys swap stories about regional weather and preparedness. Jimmy then introduces his main theme: how Christians misuse isolated Bible verses—on tattoos, hair, drinking, and Sabbath observance—to build harsh, legalistic rules that ignore historical context and the broader witness of Scripture. He unpacks Leviticus 19 on tattoos and beards, noting that the original prohibition targeted pagan mourning and gods-marking practices, not every modern tattoo, and uses this to critique cherry-picking that condemns some behaviors while quietly discarding nearby commands. The conversation broadens into alcohol, premarital pregnancy, and modesty, emphasizing that sin should be named, confessed, and turned from, but that the church's role is restoration and practical help rather than lifelong shaming. Jimmy contrasts condemnatory “judging” with discerning evaluation aimed at helping people heal, tying this to issues like gender confusion, broken families, and young adults seeking identity in extreme presentation or ideology. They also explore Gnostic gospels, “sovereign citizen” legal theories, and social media “sea lawyers” as modern examples of people chasing secret knowledge or misreading texts to feel superior. Ephesians 2 is used to argue that salvation is by grace through faith, yet believers are explicitly “created in Christ Jesus for good works,” so obedience, service, and community are expected fruits, not the cause, of salvation. The episode closes with practical pastoral reflections on church attendance, discernment in helping others, and a gas-station anecdote about generosity and being lied to, illustrating how Christians can act in good faith even when outcomes are imperfect. Don't miss it!

Winter Retreat: Locals  “He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.”  ‭‭Micah‬ ‭6‬:‭8‬ ‭  “He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, […]

SLOW DOWN – QUIT THE BUSY. In this episode of the Came to Believe Recovery podcast, Monty and Tom discuss the importance of slowing down in a fast-paced world. They explore how societal pressures often equate busyness with self-worth and status, leading individuals to fill their lives with constant activity. The conversation highlights the detrimental effects of this mindset on mental health, relationships, and overall well-being. They share personal anecdotes and insights on the necessity of taking breaks, practicing Sabbath rest, and reconnecting with oneself to foster a healthier lifestyle. The episode emphasizes that life is not a race, but a collection of moments meant to be savored and appreciated. Closing Song: Feeling Groovy, The Mona Lisa Twins. #recovery #alcoholic #twelvesteps #wedorecover #addiction 

Wednesday of the Second Week in Ordinary Time

Nikki and Colleen are joined by Richard Tinker in this discussion of the new book by the late Charlie Kirk, Stop In the Name of God, and the connection he makes to Adventism and the Saturday Sabbath.Music: Falling Awake © 2010 Nathanael Tinker. Used by permission.Support the showWebsite, donation link: http://proclamationmagazine.com/Facebook—Former Adventist: https://www.facebook.com/FormerAdventist/Facebook—Life Assurance Ministries: https://www.facebook.com/ProclamationMagazine/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FormerAdventist

Homily of Fr. Mike O'Connor from Mass on January 20, 2026, at Our Lady of the Gulf Catholic Church in Bay St. Louis, MS. Readings 1 Sm 16:1-13 Mk 2:23-28 If you would like to donate to OLG and her livestream ministry, please go to https://olgchurch.net/give

The readings for this homily: https://bible.usccb.org/bible/readings/012026.cfmIn the Gospel, Jesus' repeated conflicts with the Pharisees over the Sabbath reveal not rebellion against God's law, but a restoration of its true purpose. As Father Mark Baron, MIC explains, the Pharisees arose during a time of intense pressure to preserve Jewish identity. Their zeal to protect the Law led them to build layers of manmade regulations meant to prevent even the possibility of sin. What began as devotion slowly became a burden.When the disciples plucked heads of grain, the Pharisees accused them of unlawful work. Yet Jesus responds with divine clarity: “The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath” (Mk 2:27; NABRE). God did not establish the Sabbath to enslave His people in fear, but to sanctify them. The commandment to rest is ordered toward holiness, not anxiety.Scripture confirms this purpose. “Remember the sabbath day—keep it holy” (Ex 20:8; NABRE). The Sabbath is a sign that God sanctifies His people, forming them into a holy nation (ref. Ex 31:13–14). To sanctify means to make holy, to perfect us in goodness. When rest becomes fear-driven rule keeping, the heart of the law is lost.Jesus, as Lord of the Sabbath, restores it to its original intention: human flourishing through worship, surrender, and love. This is fulfilled for Christians in the Lord's Day, when the faithful gather for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass is not a burden imposed by God, but a gift through which He sanctifies us. To neglect it knowingly is not freedom, but loss.God's commandments are always a “yes” to life, goodness, and holiness. When rightly understood, they draw us closer to Him and restore us to what we were created to be.To deepen your understanding of how God sanctifies us through the Sacraments, explore Understanding the Sacraments at ShopMercy.org. ★ Support this podcast ★

Brandon Robbins is a pastor and YouTube content creator whose channel has more than 320,000 subscribers and 32 million views. He is a #girldad with two beautiful daughters and an amazing wife, LeeAnn. When he isn't leading his church or making videos, Brandon loves to read, travel, and search for the world's best hot sauce.Brandon joins Dale on today's 95Podcast to discuss his latest book, The Forgotten Teachings of Jesus: Rediscovering the Bible with The Chosen: Season Two.  The conversation takes a refreshing look at the settings that existed when Jesus taught in person over 2000 years ago. It's hard to truly understand the impact of many of Jesus' teachings if they are viewed through a current world view.Show Notes: https://95network.org/the-forgotten-teachings-of-jesus-w-brandon-robbins-episode-321/Support the show

Genesis 1:1 - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Let's look at the words "God" and "created." in this verse in Hebrew the word used for God is a plural noun and created is a singular verb. What day did God create the world? It says God created everything in 6 days and He rested on the 7th day, the Sabbath, and that is Saturday. Which means the first day of creation was on Sunday. What was the day of the week that God began a new creation?  That was on the day Jesus arose from the grave. The Bible tells us this was on the first day of the week, on a Sunday. Jesus' closest friend, John, begins his gospel this way: "In the beginning  was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." Psalm 33:6 "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth."  In Genesis 1 we read over and over, "And God said…" God brought everything into being through His Word and the Bible describes Jesus as that Word, the Living Word. John 1:3 tells us "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."  Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. Hard to comprehend, but true. John goes on in verse 14, "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."  Let's look at these words from that verse, "made his dwelling" in Hebrew it is one word. Tabernacles. Jesus, the Word became flesh and tabernacles among us. Not simply in the spirit, but in the flesh in the person of Jesus Christ.  Colossians 1:15-17 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together." The only way we can be held together in this fallen world is in Jesus Christ, the Savior of us all. The only way to face the future and the difficulties of life in a fallen world is through the power of His Son who has redeemed us and through His Holy Spirit who strengthens, guides and directs us. Our God is an awesome God! Now What? Learn about God at https://www.awakeusnow.com EVERYTHING we offer is FREE. View live or on demand: https://www.awakeusnow.com/tuesday-bible-class For more check out the series, "What's the Answer"  https://www.awakeusnow.com/whats-the-answer Join us Sundays  https://www.awakeusnow.com/sunday-service Watch via our app. Text HELLO to 888-364-4483 to download our app.

Following his sermon in the series through the book of John, Here is Your King, Tyler talks with Raphael about points he would have pressed harder if he had the time, the Sabbath, Edward Scissorhands, and taking everything captive to Christ Passage: John 5:1-15 If you have any questions about the sermon, fill out the form on the Church Center App.

Rest (A Series on Sabbath) - 1.18.2026 | Jeremiah Fair

I may be the only other man who has had some version of the cold-night-existential experience described in today's poem, but I doubt it. Happy reading. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dailypoempod.substack.com/subscribe

Read Online“The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. That is why the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath” Mark 2:27–28Today's Gospel should console those who struggle with a legalistic and scrupulous mindset. This is an easy trap to fall into for those who desire to keep God's commandments and remain faithful to His holy will. Despite the best intentions, it's easy for those who are deeply sincere in their fidelity to God to misunderstand how best to please and glorify Him. One common trap is to think that meticulous observance of the external Law is sufficient. While obedience to God's Law is essential, it is equally important to understand the authentic requirements of His Law—what it truly demands and what it does not.Today's Gospel takes place toward the beginning of Jesus' public ministry, after He had named His Twelve Apostles and begun preaching and healing. As they walked to another town on the Sabbath so Jesus could continue His mission, they passed through a field. The Apostles, being hungry, forged a path through the grain and picked some of it to eat. When the Pharisees saw them doing this, they seized the opportunity to condemn them, saying, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the sabbath?” (Mark 2:24).Without getting too philosophical, it's important to understand what we call God's Eternal Law. The Eternal Law encompasses reality—physical, moral, and spiritual truths. All that God has established as true must be our guide through life. The goal of the evil one is to deceive us by leading us into a false understanding of that reality.Traditionally, the Eternal Law has been divided into two distinct aspects: the Natural and Divine Laws. The Divine Law is all that is known only through divine revelation—all that the Scriptures reveal, especially through Christ's humanity and mission. The Natural Law, on the other hand, is written upon creation itself, including our own human nature. Natural Law is written on our consciences and discerned through reason. For example, we instinctively know it is wrong to lie, steal, and murder. Though God's Divine Law confirms this through the Ten Commandments, these basic moral truths are already evident to us when we reflect clearly.In today's Gospel, the Apostles' actions were perfectly aligned with right reason—the Natural Law—showing how their choices reflected God's design for human flourishing. They were eating grain as they journeyed with Jesus so He could continue His mission. Their need for sustenance, especially while in service to Christ, took precedence over rigid legalistic interpretations of the Sabbath. The Pharisees, however, mistook the Sabbath for an end in itself. They focused solely on external observance and failed to understand that the Sabbath was instituted as a gift for humanity—a day for rest, worship, and renewal in communion with God.What's freeing and beautiful to note is that the Natural Law, written on our human reason, and the Divine Law, revealed through the Scriptures, are in perfect harmony. Both flow from God. Through His mission, Jesus shows us how the Divine Law elevates and perfects the Natural Law, orienting both toward love and mercy. The Pharisees' legalism obscured this harmony, reducing the Law to a burdensome set of rules rather than as a pathway to life and freedom.Reflect today on your own approach to God's Law. If you find it burdensome, reevaluate your thinking. Properly understood and embraced, God's Law is not a weight; it's the source of freedom. The Sabbath, in particular, invites us to rest and trust in God's providence. When we live according to the Eternal Law—both Natural and Divine—we discover harmony within our souls that refreshes and elevates us. Resolve to follow God's Law with love, avoiding both scrupulosity and laxity, and you will find the freedom and joy for which you were created.Divine Law-Giver, all that You have spoken and established is Truth. You are the Source of Truth and Truth Itself. Please free me from both laxity and scrupulosity as I strive to live in accord with Your will. May I find in Your Law the pathway to freedom and joy. Jesus, I trust in You.Source of content: catholic-daily-reflections.comCopyright © 2026 My Catholic Life! Inc. All rights reserved. Used with permission via RSS feed.

281. Excel in Social Skills and Etiquette and Teach Your Children To Do The Same with Monica Irvine   Proverbs 20:11 NIV “Even small children are known by their actions, so is their conduct really pure and upright?”   Ephesians 4:32a AMP “Be kind and helpful to one another,”   *Transcription Below*   Monica Irvine, President and creator of The Etiquette Factory, LLC, is a master motivator and dedicated instructor who loves to help children and adults see the benefits and rewards of having proper etiquette, mastering professionalism and excelling in social skills. As a Certified Etiquette Instructor and working in the hospitality industry for 24 years, Mrs. Irvine specializes in etiquette and professional instruction to help ensure the success of each individual both personally and professionally.   Mrs. Irvine is the published author of three books on Etiquette and one book on Scheduling including: Etiquette for Beginners, Etiquette Intermediate, Etiquette Masters and A Schedule Makes for a Happy Family, in addition to authoring several monthly columns in national publications such as Everything Knoxville, The Homeschool Handbook and the Homeschool Magazine.   Mrs. Irvine is a national speaker, speaking to thousands of parents, educators and children every year.   Residing in Knoxville, TN with her husband, Mrs. Irvine spends her free time playing tennis, running and enjoying her family of three boys and a granddaughter.   You may contact Mrs. Irvine at monica@TheEtiquetteFactory.com  or via her website at www.TheEtiquetteFactory.com. Rise Up Parenting FUNdamentals 4 Kids Life Skills Essentials   Thank You to Our Sponsor: Sam Leman Eureka   Questions and Topics We Cover: What are some red flags we can identify in our lives if we are too busy and what wisdom do you recommend instead of our overstuffed schedules? As parents, why must we proactively teach these qualities to our children, rather than just instruct them in a moment of correction? Will you share stories of ways the Holy Spirit has nudged you to use etiquette and it resulted in something miraculous?    Other Savvy Sauce Episode Mentioned: Unexpected Grief and What Helped Me Through It Can Help You Too with Singer and Blogger, Brittany Price Brooker   Connect with The Savvy Sauce on Facebook or Instagram or Our Website   Gospel Scripture: (all NIV)   Romans 3:23 “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,”   Romans 3:24 “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”   Romans 3:25 (a) “God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.”    Hebrews 9:22 (b) “without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”    Romans 5:8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”    Romans 5:11 “Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.”    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”   Romans 10:9 “That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”    Luke 15:10 says “In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”   Romans 8:1 “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus”   Ephesians 1:13–14 “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession- to the praise of his glory.”   Ephesians 1:15–23 “For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”   Ephesians 2:8–10 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God – not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God‘s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.“   Ephesians 2:13 “But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.“   Philippians 1:6 “being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”   *Transcription*   Music: (0:00 – 0:10)   Laura Dugger: (0:11 - 2:19) Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, where we have practical chats for intentional living. I'm your host, Laura Dugger, and I'm so glad you're here.   The principles of honesty and integrity that Sam Leman founded his business on continue today, over 55 years later, at Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka. Owned and operated by the Burchie family, Sam Leman in Eureka appreciates the support they've received from their customers all over central Illinois and beyond. Visit them today at LemanGM.com.   My guest for today is the charming Monica Irvine. She is president and creator of The Etiquette Factory. She's a master motivator and dedicated instructor who just loves helping children and adults to see the benefits and rewards of having proper etiquette. She also loves to help people master professionalism and excel in social skills.   So, she's going to give us insight into all of these ideas and share stories today for ways that we can actually seek the Lord and love others well and value people through the proper use of etiquette.   Here's our chat. Welcome to The Savvy Sauce, Monica.   Monica Irvine: (2:19 - 2:20) Thank you. Thanks for having me, Laura.   Laura Dugger: (2:20 - 5:41) Well, I'm so excited to get a chat with you today, but let's just begin here. I'm so fascinated because you were born and raised in the South. Is that right?   Monica Irvine: Well, yes, Tennessee. Absolutely consider myself Southern.   Laura Dugger: I love it. And I grew up in the Midwest and got to live in the South for a few years. And I was very struck by the difference in manners. And I'm just curious if manners and etiquette were intentionally taught to you, both in your family and then just kind of in your Southern culture around you.   Monica Irvine: (2:20 - 5:32) Well, yes. So, when I think about being raised in the South, I think and maybe my mom and my grandmas were a little different. But what I would describe my upbringing is very particular, meaning everything was made special.   And my parents and my grandparents took a lot of pride in making things beautiful and lovely. And so, of course, my mom cooked every night. But like at my home growing up and we did not have a lot of money, just know that my parents struggled.   But my mother would never put a ketchup bottle on the table or a mayonnaise jar. Everything had to be put in little bowls with little spoons. And it's funny because my friends that I have today, I get given little spoons for birthdays and occasions because my friends all know how much I love little dainty things.   But, you know, and some people, you know, might think that's a little ridiculous. But I'll tell you something. I don't know that we need to eat that way every night, seven nights a week.   But it made dinner time feel special. And even the way my mother and my grandmothers kept their house, everything had its place. It was not messy.   We had clean homes. And I think it also just helped me be proud of my home. I mean, once again, we did not have a lot of money, but my friends thought my home was so nice.   Well, the reason it was so nice is because my mother kept such care of it. And so, I was raised with a lot of cousins and live close to both of my grandparents. And so even the outside of their homes, both sets of grandparents, everything was beautiful.   And so there was a lot of pride in who we are, how we presented ourselves. But you're going to laugh at this. So, my mom, my dad tells me this story that right after my mom and dad got married, my dad came home from work one day and my mom was ironing.   You know, she'd spend a whole day ironing every week or half a day. And my mom was ironing my dad's underwear. And my mom's name is Janice.   And he was like, “Janice, honey, what are you doing?” And “I know just ironing, Bob.” And he's like, “Babe, you don't need to iron my underwear.”   But, you know, the thing is, that to my mother and my grandmothers being a good wife and being a good mother meant making sure everyone in the family looked nice, that their clothes were clean, that the home was clean, that there was good food on the table. And that was part of their identity, of this is what it means to be a good wife and mother. And I love that about my upbringing.   Laura Dugger: (5:33 - 5:41) And do you have any reasons why you think that's changed a little bit over the years?   Monica Irvine: (5:42 - 8:34) Yeah, I think we've gotten lazy. Well, no, I just I think there you know, there's balance, right? There's when I look back, I can't really remember my mom playing with me.   But now, listen, I don't feel like I missed out, but I do recognize it. But I guess even as a little girl, sure, I would have loved my mom to play with me. But that's just not in my mind what moms did.   Moms cleaned house and made everything and cooked your meal. And so, I do. I'm grateful that as a society, we have adjusted somewhat.   Sometimes I believe too much but have adjusted in going. What's the most important things? And because I'm a big believer in playing with our children and our grandchildren and creating memories.   But now my family, my parents and we worked a lot together. Like if we were if the yard needed raking, it wasn't kids go rake the yard. Mom, dad, kids were in the yard raking.   If a car needed to be washed, it wasn't go wash the car. We were all out there washing the car. So, I think that's why I don't feel like I missed out because my family did so many things together.   Whereas today we're so separated. No parents give their children and babies phones and iPads so they'll just be quiet so they can get their important work done. Like grocery shopping or cooking.   And I just think that instead of teaching our children how to self-soothe and self-entertain and how to creatively play even by yourself, sometimes we just always believe there has to be a babysitter to distract our children from wanting mom and dad. It's just I you know, this could be a whole other talk, Laura, but I just you know, I see it. It breaks my heart sometimes on the lack of how often families work together, play together and do things together.   But now, you know, dad's watching his game in this room. Mom is in another room, maybe on her computer doing social media. The kids are in their rooms on their games.   And I see a lack of family unity. So once again, even though maybe my mom and dad didn't play with us and I'm glad we've shifted with that thought process. Still, we were a united family.   Laura Dugger: (8:35 - 8:56) I love that. And the Lord has clearly given you a passion for that instilling that in others. And He invited you into a journey that eventually led to The Etiquette Factory, which is the work that you get to do today.   So, can you share the impetus for that and what that journey looked like for you?   Monica Irvine: (8:56 - 13:54) I will. I love my company. I feel like it's just yet another beautiful adventure the Lord has allowed me to be on in my life.   And so, I feel like I'm just outside looking in at this beautiful little business that has allowed me to minister to children and adults in need. So, years ago, I was homeschooling our kids. I was homeschooling our youngest son at the time, and we were studying the life of President George Washington.   And I just kind of stumbled upon this list. It was called George Washington's Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior. It is a beautiful list of 110 chivalry skills.   And apparently, President Washington was encouraged to focus on some chivalry as was part of a formal education in those days. He found a French book that had these list of chivalry kind of considerations, and he copied them. He hand copied them, of course.   And we have that list of 110 chivalry skills in President Washington's handwriting. But as I started reading over this list, the Lord penetrated my heart. I just I was like, these are so beautiful.   I mean, some of them were kind of funny. Some of them were. It's not polite to remove lice from your companion in public, which I think is good to know.   But most of the beautiful chivalry skills were very applicable to today. And I was like I want my son to memorize these skills. So, we started memorizing one Washington skill a week.   And because they were written in that old English, you know, sometimes we were like, what does this mean? And it just I just decided for my son's sake, who was nine at the time, I wanted to just kind of make my own version. But what was so a light bulb moment for me is as we started making manners part of our daily discussion in school, I noticed a change in my child's behavior and my son would be like, “Mom, let's do another one. What's the next one? Let's do one more.”   And I found that so fascinating because, as you know, most of us parents, when we teach manners, we're teaching it in the moment, usually correcting bad behavior. It's not that that's our goal. It's just that that's when we think about it.   Our child says, or does something that's not the most polite, and all of a sudden we're going, “Oh, honey, no, honey, you can't say that. That's not polite.” And then we make the correction and then we teach the skill.   And what I learned and realized is that so often that's when I was teaching my children manners in the moment of correcting. And what I've learned about that is when we're being corrected, whether you're three years old or 30 years old, we harden our heart typically because it's self-preservation. You know, we stiffen up when someone's like, “Monica, you really shouldn't have.” I'm like, whoa.   And it's just because of our own pride. We don't like being called out and neither do our children, even when we're doing it gently and politely. It's still a correction.   And so, what I found is when our heart is hardened, as the scripture says, it's not the best time to absorb information. It's the opposite of being humble. To be humble means to be teachable.   To be hardened means to not be teachable. So, when we have a hardened heart, it's hard for us to absorb things of the spirit, which all truth comes from God. So, anything that is lovely of good rapport is of God.   So, when we're teaching our children to be kind and to have kind considerations for others, those are God's truths and God's truths cannot seep into the soul of our heart unless our heart is soft. And so that is what happened is I was like, today we're going to learn how to use our napkin properly. Or today we're going to learn how to apologize.   But how do you make it sound sincere and how do you be sincere when you don't really feel it? And so, as we started just working on one skill at a time, the conversations were typically beautiful. Parts were changed and behavior ended up changing.   And so really, that's what then later became The Etiquette Factory.   Laura Dugger: (13:55 - 14:20) I love that because I think it gives our children confidence because then they're equipped and prepared and understand what's expected of them in different situations or what can bless others in the way they act. But then I'm curious, you gave a few examples of those. Can you think of any of George Washington's chivalry lines that would still apply today?   Monica Irvine: (14:21 - 19:07) Yes, well, so I'm not quoting, I'm summarizing. So, for instance, one is it is not polite to hum or sing in the presence of others that would cause distraction. And so basically it's not polite to draw attention to ourselves but also draw attention or interrupt other people's day life when we haven't been invited to do so.   So let me give you this definition we use for etiquette. So, at The Etiquette Factory, etiquette is helping those around us to feel valued and to feel comfortable. Well, if I'm sitting there humming along, but the person beside me really doesn't want to hear my humming, then I might be causing that person to feel uncomfortable.   Same thing, you know, whenever I start off teaching a class, because usually when everyone thinks of manners, they think of table manners. Of course, there's so much more. But I use this example.   I say, well, if I were to come to your home and sit down and I started eating like a pig in the presence of your family, I mean, I'm chewing with my mouth open. I'm making a smacking my lips. I'm taking too big of bites and food is falling in my lap or I'm making a mess on the table.   Or I eat so fast that I am finished eating, getting up to leave. And you're just on your third bite of food. Well, any of those behaviors, I would be sending a message.   And that message is, look, I'm here for one person and that person is myself. I came to fill up my belly because I'm hungry. And beyond that, I really don't care.   I don't care if I'm making you uncomfortable. I don't care if I'm grossing you out. I don't care if you actually wanted to talk to me because I just came here to eat and I'm out of here.   You see, we don't realize it, but a lack of chivalry is called selfishness. A lack of chivalry is inward focused. When we focus outwardly on what message am I sending to those around me?   Am I sending a message of love and care and value? That is etiquette. I get emailed all the time and message like, “OK, Monica, I've got this shower I'm putting on.   And my daughter is not going to invite her work friends to the wedding. But is it OK if we invite all of them to a wedding shower?” And they'll go, so what's the etiquette rule?   Well, there is no etiquette rule about that, except etiquette is about helping those around us to feel valued. And so that's how I answer every question. I'm like, well, let me ask you if you were invited to a wedding shower, where you're asking her friends to shower your daughter with gifts and love to celebrate her wedding.   But yet those friends were not valued enough to invite to the wedding. How do you think it would make them feel? And so that's what the answer is with etiquette.   Now, there's exceptions. In fact, that case, that's a real email I got. And she ended up having the shower because her daughter went and told her co-worker who offered to give her a wedding shower.   “You know what? I thought that is so thoughtful. I'm so grateful that you were willing to do that. But we're having a very small, intimate wedding, you know, for financial reasons and intimacy reasons. And so, I just don't feel comfortable inviting people to bring gifts for me and knowing that we're just we're not going to be able to invite everyone to the wedding.”   And that co-worker said, “We don't care. We knew you were having a small wedding. We want to celebrate you.”   And so, you know, you can there be exceptions, but a lady and a gentleman always try to be very aware of those unspoken messages. And that guides our conversation, our answers, our actions. And that's what we teach children and adults to do at The Etiquette Factory.   Laura Dugger: (19:07 - 21:17) And now a brief message from our sponsor.   Sam Leman Chevrolet Eureka has been owned and operated by the Burchie family for over 25 years. 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Your car buying process doesn't have to be something you dread, so come see for yourself at Sam Leman Chevrolet in Eureka. Sam and Stephen would love to see you, and they appreciate your business.   Learn more at their website, LemanEureka.com, or visit them on Facebook  by searching for Sam Leman Eureka. You can also call them at 309-467-2351. Thanks for your sponsorship.   I loved, this was a few months back, but we came to a homeschool convention, and I loved your talk on purposeful parenting. One thing that you said, just I think backing it up and looking at our family in general, you said, “If we're too busy to do the most important things, we're too busy. Stop allowing the adversary to tempt us to remain too busy.”   So, Monica, what wisdom can you share for maybe red flags that can help us identify when we're too busy to focus on the most important things, and what do you recommend instead of overstuffing our schedules and our lives?   Monica Irvine: (21:18 - 26:23) You know, that's a great question. Those are good questions that every family should ask themselves. You know, I think that if we are to strive to focus on the most important things, step number one is, has mom and dad identified the most important things?   Because if you don't know what your goal is, then you're not going to as easily recognize when something is interfering with your goal. So, for instance, maybe mom and dad sits down and says, “Well, our number one goal is to make sure that our children know Jesus Christ. And so, what do we need to do to make sure that we're doing our best to help our children know who He is?”   Well, and so a family might decide, well, we want to have daily scripture study and daily family and individual prayer. We want to make it a priority to be at church so that we can worship on the Sabbath, but also so that we can meet together with other like-minded Christians and minister to one another as we're taught by the Savior. That's important for us to do.   And perhaps we want to learn to do as the Savior does. And that's why we're going to learn of His attributes and try to follow in His footsteps and be a family of service. So, let's just say those are our four of the most important things.   If that's our goal, then hopefully mom and dad could recognize when we're starting to stumble off the path that leads to our goal. For instance, I can't tell you how many parents have come up to me after they hear me speak on this topic and say, “Monica, I wish I had heard you say this 10 years ago. But we got sucked up into the what the world has to offer, and we started allowing our children to play competitive sports on Sunday. And so, we stopped going to church years ago because there was always a championship game on Sunday morning and always another tournament. And we wanted our children to have, you know, college opportunities.”   And there's nothing wrong with college opportunities unless that college opportunity interferes with our most important goal. And so that's why first mom and dad have to decide what is the most important, because then it's easier to recognize when we are being tempted by the adversary to focus on what the world is trying to offer us.   And the world offers us shiny things that tempt our human nature to want to be popular and loved by all and wealthy. And so, we just have to always go back to our goals. You know, I've got families that say, “I wish we had eaten dinner together more often. But we allowed our children to be so scheduled that there was not one night or there was only one night a week that we actually sat down at the table together.”   You know, parents. You will regret that. And you can't take back these precious, very short years that you have your children under your roof in your home.   And you will be someone like me one day where all of my kids are graduating and grandchildren and all you live for is your children to come visit and your children to come have dinner. And so, when you allow the world to creep in and be more important than spending time with your family, time with the Lord, time on good and lovely things, you will regret it. And I just think that probably every year come January, mom and dad should sit down and go, let's look at last year.   What were we missing from our family schedule? What do we need to reevaluate whether that is the most important thing? And so that's something I think all of us have to do on a regular basis.   Laura Dugger: (26:24 - 27:20) I think you're hitting on something profound there, that reflection with the Lord or with our spouse. I think we have no excuse because if there is no spouse in the picture, we always have the Lord. But to be intentional, to take that time, maybe on a Sabbath and go through a few questions and reflect back.   I think that could save us from a lot of regret. So, I really appreciate that response. And going back to etiquette, then you've taught us that it is a learned behavior.   This isn't something that our children will just naturally pick up. It's best to do in times where their hearts are soft, so proactive if possible. But I'd love to know in your own life, when were times that the Holy Spirit nudged you to use etiquette and it resulted in something miraculous?   Monica Irvine: (27:21 - 32:56) Oh, goodness. Okay, well, to me, I think miraculous is seeing the Lord's divine hand in our life. I see the miracle of the Lord every day in my life.   But probably most often is when I kneel down at the end of a day, I repent daily because I need to daily. And it's always a little nervous because I pray and I ask the Lord, as sometimes I know what I need to repent of. I know that I recognized I stumbled that day on something, but sometimes I just I pray and I say, “Lord, you know, just help.”   If something needs to be brought to my mind that I need to repent of and that I need to do better, would you bring it to my mind at this time? And it wasn't that long ago that the Lord brought to my mind something that I had gotten in the habit of doing that I didn't feel like it was wrong, but it was wrong. And so, etiquette, one of the etiquette skills I teach everyone is that it's not polite for us to gossip.   A lady and a gentleman always draw attention to the lovely and wonderful things that other people do. Now, if there's a safety issue, that's different, but I'm just talking about we don't share negative things about other people. And so, it's something I teach every year, all year long.   But I feel like I've done so much better than I did twenty-five years ago when the Lord really chastised me one time for gossiping. But in the last couple of months, I had gotten in the habit of sharing with my husband. So sometimes, you know, when you share with your spouse that you kind of feel like that's a safe place that the same rules don't apply because you and your spouse kind of talk about everything.   And so, I was in the habit of sharing with my spouse something that I was worried about that another person in our family did. But I was constantly going, “Oh, I don't like that. They do this and I don't like that. They do this and I'm worried about it.” And I actually was worried about it. But I just was constantly kind of highlighting these things that I didn't like that someone in our family did.   Well, one night I was praying and asked the Lord to bring to my mind and the Lord brought that to my mind. And it was kind of like he said, “Monica, don't you remember that? If you're worried about someone. Instead of sharing those negative things, even with Charles, my husband, what would be more effective is if you prayed and asked me to bless that person, to help that person, you know, in the ways that they need help and ask me to help, you know, of ways that you could be a better example to that person. But you don't need to constantly draw attention because it's starting to make you be negative towards this person.”   And I just like right when the Lord said that to me, I was embarrassed. I was like, “Monica, that. Yeah. Like, how do you not know that? That you should know better than that.”   Well, so immediately I repented and I apologized to the Lord and I and I started doing what he asked me to do. And within just a couple of days, like I started just noticing all of the wonderful, lovely things that this person is and does. And so, just to me, that is miraculous and it happens all the time.   And if I'm humble enough to repent and to listen to the Lord, because the Lord wants to help us and he wants us to strive to be like him. But we've got to ask where we need to be corrected. And so, I teach etiquette, I teach we don't gossip.   And then lo and behold, I had kind of gotten myself in another trap again. You know, and I just I think it's a miracle what happens when we listen to the Lord. He immediately turns our mind to good, lovely, beautiful things and allows us to be a vessel of light instead of vessel of darkness.   And we can be that vessel of darkness just right inside our own marriage, even though we think that's kind of a safe place to maybe be a little looser with our tongue. So, there's one example.   Laura Dugger: (32:57 - 33:26) I love that. And I remember you also explaining whenever you get a thought in your head that you don't want to do, it's likely 100 percent from God. So, can you share a couple specific stories of times that that was the Holy Spirit telling you something that you didn't maybe want to do, but you obeyed?   I'm remembering something about a grocery store and another time separately about a phone call. Yeah.   Monica Irvine: (33:26 - 40:29) OK, well, I'll tell about the phone call just because it's less sad. So, yeah, one time there was this lady and she was just kind of investigating our church and starting to come to our church and kind of fill it out. So, I had just met her and I found out that her what led her to come looking for God is her husband was an addict and she was just at her wits end and their marriage and family was falling apart.   And so, she came looking for the for help for the Lord. And so, I learned a little bit about her story. I ended up taking her to one of those celebrate recovery places at another church because I knew they had a wonderful program.   And so, I had interacted with her a couple of times. I probably had only known her about a month when one night I was running late to take my kids to youth on Wednesday night and I was cooking some spaghetti and I was just, you know, cooking that spaghetti at the stove. And all of a sudden I had a thought come into my mind, “Call her.”   And, you know, I was like, oh, yeah, I do need to call her. I need to call and check on her. I will, you know, after church tonight.   And so, I, you know, kept cooking that spaghetti. And the second time the Spirit, because that's who it was talking to me, because that's who tells us to do good things. Not us, but God.   The Spirit said, “Monica, call her.” But I was running late and I was trying to get my kids fed and I was like, I will call her as soon as I get the kids fed, you know, drop them off at church and then I'll call her, you know, and so I really meant to call her. But I.   Finally, a third time, and it seems to always take me three times before I realize, OK, he means now. And so, a third time it was like “Monica call.” And so, it was so strong.   And I, I know it's the Lord, but I, I just turned the stove off. I went into my bedroom, got my phone out, dialed her number. And as it was ringing, she picked up the phone and all I heard was just some quiet sobbing.   And she couldn't speak. And I, you know, I said her name. I said, “Hey, so and so it's Monica. I just. I see that you're upset. I just wanted to call and check on you. In fact, the Lord insisted that I call and check on you.”   And then her, you know, her crying just continued. It wasn't until, you know, she had calmed down and she just said, you know, “Monica, I had been praying and just asking the Lord to just show me that, you know, show me that you care that this is happening to me.” Something like that.   And, you know, I, I, in that moment, my stomach kind of did that little knot because I knew how close I had come to just not calling. And sure, I could have called her an hour later. It would have been at least an hour later and maybe, you know, it would have mattered.   But the Lord knew that it mattered right in that moment. She needed an answer. She needed to know that the Lord was listening.   And I've learned that in my life, that whenever we get a thought that comes into our mind and that thought is to do something good, like calling someone, you all is a good thing. Visiting someone, writing a letter to someone. Those are good things.   And all good comes from the Lord. And sometimes I wonder, does the Lord trust me? Does he know I'll respond when the stakes are high?   You know, sometimes I think as we continue to learn how to hear the spirit, we have to practice. Oh, that was the spirit. And probably if you're like me, I've learned a lot about the spirit by not listening.   And then later going, “Oh, yeah, Lord, I did miss that. You tried. You tried to warn me, or you tried to get me to do that. And I dismissed it.”   But so, you all I just think it takes practice and I'm still practicing. But I do believe that especially when it's something that we don't really want to do or we think we don't have time. And I just realize I felt the Lord going, “Monica, do you not think I know you're cooking spaghetti? Do you not think I know you're running late? But right now, there's something more important I need you to do than to get your kids to church on time.”   And so, I think at some point we have to decide, do we trust Him or don't we? And if we trust Him, we have to trust Him completely. And that means when we receive a prompting that we will act quickly because the Lord knows what we're doing.   And He knows that we don't have the best relationship with that person. Yet you're feeling like you should call. He already knows that.   And it doesn't mean that everything's always going to turn out the way we think it will. Sometimes I think the Lord just wants us to know ourselves that we'll do what He asked us to do, regardless of how it will turn out. And sometimes I feel like the Lord has told me to do something and I did it and it didn't go well.   And I'm like, “Lord, like, why? Why?” And I know all of us, you all sit there and go, wait, was that my thought or was it God's thought?   And you know what I have learned is that just stop worrying about it. Just act in faith. And the Lord always backs up His people.   The Lord doesn't, as you and I are praying and striving to understand the Lord's will. And let's say we get an idea and so we act on it because we feel like it was a prompting and then it does not go well. I believe the Lord loves so much that you were trying to listen and be obedient and the blessings will come.   Sometimes we just don't know the timing or how, but we've just got to trust.   Laura Dugger: (40:29 - 43:59) I love that. And we never know what's happening on the other side of our obedience. And I'll link back to Brittany Price Brooker's episode because she was one who had lost her husband and was crying out to the Lord.   I think she was bathing her young children, and they didn't have food in the house and maybe they were sick. And the only thing that sounded good to their child was apples, but it was late at night. She couldn't go get them herself.   And she was just praying like, “Lord, do You see me? Do You know my needs? I need You to meet my needs.”   And right then the doorbell rings and somebody showed up and she said, “The Lord told me to buy you these apples and bring them to you.” And I think that highlights something else. You articulated it well when you say whenever you get that thought in your head that you something that you don't want to do, it's likely 100% from God.   I would say a lot of times too, it's also awkward or inconvenient. We don't know why. And then I think back to the Bible, Abraham was put in a very awkward situation with his son and Noah, that was very awkward to be building the boat when there wasn't rain.   But look at the blessing that comes on the other side of obedience. So, appreciate those stories are really helpful.   By now, I hope you've checked out our updated website, thesavvysauce.com, so that you can have access to all the additional freebies we are offering, including all of our previous articles and all of our previous episodes, which now include transcriptions. You will be equipped to have your own practical chats for intentional living when you read all the recommended questions in the articles or gain insight from expert guests and past episodes as you read through the transcriptions. Because many people have shared with us that they want to take notes on previous episodes, or maybe their spouse prefers to read our conversations rather than listen to them or watch them now that we're offering video rather than just audio. So, we heard all of that and we now have provided transcripts for all our episodes.   Just visit thesavvysauce.com. All of this is conveniently located under the tab show notes on our website. Happy reading.   So, at that same conference, when I heard you speak, you shared something that really stuck with me. This one was about our daughters. So, I want to talk about daughters first and then we'll move to sons.   But you mentioned there was this one study where over 3,000 men were surveyed. And they were asked, what's the number one quality that you desire in your wife? Either current wife or someday in the future when you're married.   And do you remember the response? Yeah, it was kindness. Kindness.   That she is kind. And so, I wondered, was there another side for the boys then too? What do you think women would say for their future or their current spouse?   What attribute do you think they would identify?   Monica Irvine: (44:00 - 47:35) It didn't have that for the other side, but a word that we don't use as much anymore. And I try to use it a lot is, I think most women, even if it wouldn't come to their mind immediately, once they heard it, they'd be like, oh, wait, no, yeah, that. And that is honorable.   They would want their husbands to be honorable. And to be honorable means that we do honorable things. And honorable things always 100 percent of the time require some level of sacrifice.   That's what makes them honorable when we sacrifice and give up our time, ourself in order to better someone else to help our country, our family, others. And so, I think today what we all want is for our spouses, husbands and wives to be kind and to live honorable lives. Those lives, it doesn't mean a perfect life, but to be honorable means we strive to have integrity.   We strive to be godly. We strive to do what we say we're going to do. We strive to live up to our divine nature as God called mothers and fathers and husbands.   And so, I would think to me that is the most important, because if you live an honorable life, then you honor God. You honor your marriage covenant. You honor your children by treating them and speaking to them with honor.   You honor your job. You make sure that you have integrity at work and that you're dependable. And the same goes for us women.   You know, but I think I think we all struggle with selfishness. I mean, that is ultimately what we struggle with every day is what do I want? What do I need?   What's important to me versus trying to live a selfless life for our spouse, for our family? Anyway, it would be interesting to do that survey, but I think what's so kind of funny about the kindness is that whenever I read that survey results that I had read years ago, when I say that to a crowd of women. And men, but when I say that to the crowd, you can always see I just see this rippling of women making this kind of gesture.   Or because they know that they could be more kind, because usually we can be kind to everyone in the world. But in the walls of our home, we struggle more with just kindness.   Laura Dugger: (47:37 - 48:00) And so if we go further upstream than before we're married, if that's what God has for us, what are practical ways that we can teach and instill kindness in our children and honorable character? Or any other practical tips for conduct?   Monica Irvine: (48:00 - 53:03) Yeah, well, I love when I do a workshop at a convention on a family of service, because honestly, when we have our children in our home, it's practice ground. We have once again a few years to help them learn to love the Lord and to love others. You know, the two great commandments, love me and love others.   Well, to me, the best way to teach our children to love God and love others is to get our children out and serving others. Because, as you know, typically, like, for instance, when someone calls us and says, “Oh, hey, Monica, hey, would you mind, you know, the Smith family, they just had their new baby. Do you think you could cook dinner for them one night next week?”   If you're like me, I'm going to say yes. And then I'm going to hang up. And then I'm going to have that anxiety because already my week is so full and I was already stressed out about how I was going to get all the things done I needed to get done.   And now I've just added another thing. And I'm not saying there are not times that we don't need to say no, because we absolutely have to say no sometimes. But my point is, I cook the dinner and I go drop it off.   And as I'm pulling, as we are pulling away from that home, how do we feel? Do we feel better or do we feel worse? Do we feel happy or do we feel sad?   Honestly, almost 100 percent of the time, y'all, we're going to feel happier. We're going to feel grateful. We're going to be grateful that we had the opportunity to cook that dinner for that sweet family.   We're going to be reminded of how sweet the Lord is to give us opportunities to be His hands and His feet and His mouth here on the earth. And so, we want our children to learn to love. To love others, but it takes practice.   It's not until you serve again and again and again that you start to realize that the secret to being happy, the secret to having peace in your life and love abounding in your home is when we lose ourselves in the service of others. It's the secret to fixing siblings arguing with each other. It's the secret to helping husbands and wives draw closer together and have more love for one another.   It's the secret to less contention overall, to more peace, to more joy and happiness is to lose ourselves in the service of others. And so, to me, if you want to raise if we want to raise honorable, kind, generous, compassionate, empathetic human beings, they've got to lose themselves. To find themselves and define God.   And so, yeah, I think that's the secret. And of course, Jesus Christ tried to teach us that over and over and over again. He tried to teach His disciples over and over again that if you love me.   Then love my sheep, feed my sheep, teach my sheep. And what's interesting is that you all. The more we do that, the more we serve and love others.   Do you know what I believe? I believe it's kind of like the Grinch. Remember when the Grinch's heart grew?   That's real. That's really what happens. The God expands our ability to love others.   And in doing that, it actually expands our deep love of God. I think it's so fascinating that that's the fruit of service is a deeper and abiding love of Jesus Christ. It seems like it would be the opposite, right?   Well, I've got to love Jesus more in order to have a greater desire to serve. But it's the opposite. He wants you to go serve when you don't really feel like it.   And he wants you to go serve when it's not convenient. And your kids are crying and no one wants to go rake her yard. And then the fruit of acting in faith and trusting God is the love.   Laura Dugger: (53:05 - 53:34) That's what I would do. That's so good. Such a good medicine or anecdote to selfishness and issues we're having in the home with our children and for ourselves.   Well, Monica, you have shared so much goodness with us throughout this conversation. Can you explain how you can help partner with us as parents to help us teach our children etiquette at neutral times? Like you said, when their hearts are softer?   Monica Irvine: (53:35 - 56:52) Yes. Yeah. So, we've got some awesome resources, parents.   And number one is we do have a parenting course called Rise Up Parenting. And it's just this beautiful 52-week course that you get lifetime access to in case it takes you three years to get through your 52 weeks. But it is a course for mom and dad, or mom, or dad by themselves.   But it's just a beautiful way to help parents focus on one parenting skill a week. I've learned that when we have purposeful parenting, when we focus on one improvement at a time because we can get so overwhelmed, like we want we want to teach our kids to be selfless and that be ambitious and to serve and share. And I mean, it's just, it's endless.   But the Lord is a house of order. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a house of order. And so as long as we're going in the right direction, y'all, we are successful.   And so, this parenting course teaches a biblical principle and then a parenting principle that are related and allows you to just make little increment steps of improvement. Because when mom and dad improve, it blesses your children. So that's the first resource.   And then the other two most popular resources is we just have two programs. We have a program called FUNdamentals4Kids that targets children preschool through about third grade. And it's so fun.   It's just these wonderful, fun board games, flashcards, songs, stories, crafts, where we try to encourage you to twice a week set aside 15 minutes of your school day for an official manners activity and watch what happens. So, we've organized it for you. And for the little kids, we found out that if they can play with it, sing about it, make some food with it, that it helps them to go, “Mom, let's do a manners lesson.”   And then they don't even know that they're being taught these beautiful, wonderful skills. So that is so wonderful. And then for kids about fourth grade through 12th grade, we have a course called Life Skills for You.   And it's just so fun and it's so effective. Basically, it's 142 little three-minute lessons. We once again just try to get you to commit to twice a week sitting down with your family, watching a three-minute lesson where I'm teaching the etiquette skill.   Plus, we show teenagers doing the skill the wrong way and the right way. So, it's kind of funny, but it just creates some really great conversation with the family. And so those are our top three selling product lines.   And you can find all of that on our website, theetiquettefactory.com.   Laura Dugger: (56:53 - 57:15) Thank you for sharing. We will certainly link to all of that in the show notes for today's episode. And Monica, you may be familiar that we are called The Savvy Sauce because savvy is synonymous with practical knowledge.   And so, this is my final question for you today. What is your savvy sauce? Yeah.   Oh, that's a hard one.   Monica Irvine: (57:15 - 59:06) I thought about this and I'm like, it's so hard. You all. Honestly, my savvy sauce is Jesus Christ.   It just is. I know sometimes we want the answer to be something else, but in all practical terms, it's Jesus. Meaning I start my morning out every day with Jesus.   I end every night with Jesus. I pray throughout the day and ask Him to help me make a decision. And I thank Him for all the beautiful things that happened to me throughout the day.   And I just He is this person, this real person that is at my side every day, all day, I hope. And that's how I do anything. That's why I am the mother that I am.   Not that I'm the best mother, but because of Him, I can mother and because of Him, I can be a good wife. And because of Him, I can be a good friend and I can minister to others through The Etiquette Factory. It's just it is Him.   And, you know, sometimes people will ask me, “Monica, I I want to have the knowledge you have or I want to be able to whatever parent the way it sounds like you parent.” And I'm like, you guys know, it's just it's called Jesus Christ. And Jesus will tell us all things that we should do.   And so my sauce is having a relationship with Jesus Christ. It truly is well said.   Laura Dugger: (59:06 - 59:24) And, Monica, you are such a gifted communicator and your heart of compassion is evident in your outward behavior. It's been such a joy to get to spend an hour with you today. So, I just want to say thank you for being my guest.   Monica Irvine: (59:24 - 59:43) Oh, thank you, Laura. And it's been such a joy. You're so kind.   And I appreciate the beautiful ministry that you're doing here on The Savvy Sauce. What a blessing for families to be able to just hear these resources that you've created. So, thank you.   Laura Dugger: (59:44 - 1:03:26) Thank you for being a part of it.   One more thing before you go, have you heard the term gospel before? It simply means good news. And I want to share the best news with you, but it starts with the bad news.   Every single one of us were born sinners, but Christ desires to rescue us from our sin, which is something we cannot do for ourselves. This means there's absolutely no chance we can make it to heaven on our own. So, for you and for me, it means we deserve death, and we can never pay back the sacrifice we owe to be saved.   We need a savior, but God loved us so much. He made a way for his only son to willingly die in our place as the perfect substitute. This gives us hope of life forever in right relationship with him.   That is good news. Jesus lived the perfect life. We could never live and died in our place for our sin.   This was God's plan to make a way to reconcile with us so that God can look at us and see Jesus. We can be covered and justified through the work Jesus finished. If we choose to receive what he has done for us, Romans 10:9 says, “that if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”   So, you pray with me now. Heavenly father, thank you for sending Jesus to take our place. I pray someone today right now is touched and chooses to turn their life over to you.   Will you clearly guide them and help them take their next step in faith to declare you as Lord of their life? We trust you to work and change lives now for eternity. In Jesus name we pray.   Amen. If you prayed that prayer, you are declaring him for me. So, me for him, you get the opportunity to live your life for him.   And at this podcast, we're called The Savvy Sauce for a reason. We want to give you practical tools to implement the knowledge you have learned. So, you're ready to get started.   First, tell someone, say it out loud, get a Bible. The first day I made this decision, my parents took me to Barnes and Noble and let me choose my own Bible. I selected the Quest NIV Bible and I love it.   You can start by reading the book of John. Also get connected locally, which just means tell someone who's a part of a church in your community that you made a decision to follow Christ. I'm assuming they will be thrilled to talk with you about further steps such as going to church and getting connected to other believers to encourage you.   We want to celebrate with you too. So, feel free to leave a comment for us here. If you did make a decision to follow Christ, we also have show notes included where you can read scripture that describes this process.   And finally, be encouraged. Luke 15:10 says, “in the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” The heavens are praising with you for your decision today.   And if you've already received this good news, I pray you have someone to share it with. You are loved and I look forward to meeting you here next time.

This week we will be studying Mark 2:23–3:6 under the theme “The Life-Giving Lord of the Sabbath.” In these verses, Jesus confronts not only questions about rest and obedience, but the deeper issue of who has authority over life itself. The Sabbath was given as a gift, yet it had become a burden. Jesus does not abolish God's command; he fulfills it by restoring life and revealing himself as the One in whom true rest is found. When the Lord of the Sabbath is present, rules give way to mercy, and rest is no longer something to achieve, but something to receive.Series Summary: Fast-paced, urgent, and relentlessly focused on Jesus, the Gospel of Mark shows us not just what Jesus said, but what he did. Written for a Roman world hungry for power, Mark introduces a surprising King - one who comes to serve, to suffer, and to give his life for many. Over the coming weeks, we'll walk this road with Jesus, from the wilderness to the cross, discovering how the Servant-King's actions reveal the true good news - and what it means to follow him as disciples who take up our own cross and trust him with our lives.Add St. Marcus as your church on the Church Center App!Fill out our online connection cardHow can we pray for you? If you'd like to leave an offering or monetary donation to our ministry please click here.

In a hustle-obsessed world, discover why a full day of rest—rooted in the ancient command of Exodus 20:8-11—is a game-changer for everyone, believer or not. Productivity expert Mark Struczewski shares his personal journey to observing the Sabbath, practical ways to unplug (no work, minimal chores, quality time with family), and science-backed mental benefits like reduced stress, lower anxiety, better sleep, and a neurological reset against burnout—plus physical perks like improved recovery and potential longevity. Learn simple, guilt-free activities to recharge your body, mind, and soul so you show up sharper and more present the other six days. True productivity starts with rest—don't miss this life-giving episode!

We live in a culture that stretches us to the very limits of our time, energy, and finances. Every hour gets booked, every dollar gets assigned, and before we know it, we're operating without room to breathe. Scripture calls that lack of space folly—and the presence of space wisdom. Today, we're talking about margin and why it's essential to biblical stewardship.Margin is the space between our limits and our load—the distance between what we could do and what we actually do. Proverbs 21:20 tells us, “Precious treasure and oil are in a wise man's dwelling, but a foolish man devours it.” Wise people don't consume everything they have. They create space. They build reserves. They plan ahead. The foolish run to the edges, spending and consuming as fast as resources arrive.One of Scripture's most beautiful pictures of margin appears in the story of Ruth. In Leviticus 23:22, God instructs His people not to harvest their fields all the way to the edges. They were to leave grain for the poor, the widow, and the foreigner. Boaz obeyed that command. He refused to maximize every inch of profit, and because of that simple act of obedience, Ruth and Naomi survived. Margin became the soil for redemption—leading to the lineage of King David, and ultimately, to Jesus Christ. Margin makes room for God to work.Think of a beautifully designed page. The words never run from edge to edge. The white space allows the page to breathe. Without it, the text would feel overwhelming. Our lives are the same. When we fill every minute of our schedules and every dollar of our budgets, life becomes chaotic. We lose clarity, rest, and the ability to respond to God's promptings.Financially, the absence of margin makes even small disruptions feel like emergencies. A car repair or medical bill can suddenly derail us. But margin absorbs shocks. It quiets anxiety. And it lays the groundwork for stewardship.Margin produces at least three spiritual benefits:Space for Rest. When we're not bound to every dollar, we can Sabbath—enjoying God's presence without pressure.Space for Faith. When we don't consume everything, we confess that God—not our paycheck—is our provider.Space for Generosity. Living at the edge leaves no room to say yes when God nudges us to give. Margin fuels ministry.Ultimately, margin is a spiritual discipline. It isn't just about saving money—it's about creating space for God's pace, God's provision, and God's purposes. The first step is simple to name and difficult to practice: spend less than you earn. Say no to good things so you can say yes to better things. Margin doesn't appear on its own—it's created through intentional choices.Boaz never imagined that leaving grain behind would shape the family line of the Messiah. But God often uses margin to accomplish eternal things.————————————————————————————————If you want to go deeper in learning how our stewardship makes room for God's work in our lives, our own Rob West wrote about this theme in his new 21-day devotional, Our Ultimate Treasure. It will be released next month. You can preorder or place bulk orders at FaithFi.com/Shop, and a digital version will be available soon in the FaithFi App for FaithFi Partners. I'd love for you to experience it.On Today's Program, Rob Answers Listener Questions:I received a notice from my bank regarding an arbitration provision and class action waiver—specifically, a notice about resolving disputes through individual arbitration. I don't understand what that means or what happens if I opt out. I'm confused and unsure what to do.I'm a truck driver, and I'm 62. I've got a few years before retirement, and I'm starting to have a little extra money in my paycheck. I'd like to invest some of it, but I'm unsure about the current market conditions. I'm also curious about crypto and Bitcoin, and wanted to hear your take.I'm trying to organize several things I've inherited—stock, savings, an IRA, an annuity, a CD, an insurance inheritance, and a house. I'm almost 72, and my dad is 100 and still living, so I need to plan for possibly 30 more years. I work part-time and receive Social Security, and my husband, who is bed-bound, also receives Social Security. Overall, our income is about $9,000 per month, which we don't need right now. I want to know how to organize all of this wisely and plan for the long term.I have two adult children in their late 30s who still have a lot of student loan debt. I'd like to help pay it off, but most of my money is in retirement accounts—401(k), IRA, and Roth IRA. Is there any way to use that money without a big tax hit? Is there any option to reduce their debt through repayment programs? One child has federal loans, and the other is in forbearance, with interest accruing. I'd really like to see them free from this debt, but I'm not sure how to approach it.Resources Mentioned:Faithful Steward: FaithFi's Quarterly Magazine (Become a FaithFi Partner)Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on MoneyLook At The Sparrows: A 21-Day Devotional on Financial Fear and AnxietyRich Toward God: A Study on the Parable of the Rich FoolFind a Certified Kingdom Advisor (CKA)FaithFi App Remember, you can call in to ask your questions every workday at (800) 525-7000. Faith & Finance is also available on Moody Radio Network and American Family Radio. You can also visit FaithFi.com to connect with our online community and partner with us as we help more people live as faithful stewards of God's resources. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Sabbath School panel discussion and insight by 3ABN pastors and teachers. This podcast episode follows 2026 quarter 1, lesson 4 of the adult Bible study guide book. This quarter's book topic is “Uniting Heaven and Earth. Christ in Philippians and Colossians”, and this week's Sabbath School lesson is titled “Unity Through Humility”. Join us every week for a fresh and relevant study of the word of God.  Reading: Phil. 2:1–11, Jer. 17:9, Phil. 4:8, 1 Cor. 8:2, Rom. 8:3, Heb. 2:14–18. Memory Text: “Fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind” (Philippians 2:2, NKJV). (January 17 - January 23)  Sunday – John Dinzey - Disunity in PhilippiMonday – Ryan Johnson- The Source of UnityTuesday – John Lomacang - Mind Implant or Mind Surgery?Wednesday – Jill Morikone - The Mind of ChristThursday – James Rafferty - The Mystery of Godliness Want the Panelists' notes? You can sign up here: https://3abnsabbathschoolpanel.com/notes/  Questions or Comments? Email us at mail@3abn.org Donate: https://3abn.org/donate-quick.html

I conclude the main section of our season on simplicity. A huge thanks to Seth White for the awesome music!Thanks to Palmtoptiger17 for the beautiful logo: https://www.instagram.com/palmtoptiger17/Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/thewayfourth/?modal=admin_todo_tourYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTd3KlRte86eG9U40ncZ4XA?view_as=subscriberInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/theway4th/ Kingdom Outpost: https://kingdomoutpost.org/My Reading List Goodreads: https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/21940220.J_G_ElliotPurity of Heart is to Will One Thing: https://www.religion-online.org/book/purity-of-heart-is-to-will-one-thing/Arendt on Loneliness: https://web.archive.org/web/20250731200849/https://www.vox.com/vox-conversations-podcast/23048597/vox-conversations-hannah-arendt-totalitarianism-the-philosophersHeschel's Sabbath: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/345500.The_Sabbath Thanks to our monthly supporters J Phillip Mast Laverne Miller Jesse Killion ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Are foundational Adventist doctrines fading from the pulpit? A global survey of pastors reveals which key topics are being regularly preached—and which are surprisingly absent—raising questions about how to maintain theological depth and identity in the church.

Each new year brings new ideas, new routines, new things to check off our to-do list. But what if we really just need to stop, slow down, and truly rest? Join us over the next few weeks as we dive into the spiritual practice of rest. Sabbath.

IWhat is our children's future? What skills should they be developing? How should schools be adapting? What will the fully functioning citizens and workers of the future look like? A look into the landscape of the next 15 years, the future of work with human and AI interactions, the transformation of education, the safety and privacy landscapes, and a parental playbook. Navigation: Intro The Landscape: 2026–2040 The Future of Work: Human + AI The Transformation of Education The Ethics, Safety, and Privacy Landscape The Parental Playbook: Actionable Strategies Conclusion Our co-hosts: Bertrand Schmitt, Entrepreneur in Residence at Red River West, co-founder of App Annie / Data.ai, business angel, advisor to startups and VC funds, @bschmitt Nuno Goncalves Pedro, Investor, Managing Partner, Founder at Chamaeleon, @ngpedro Our show: Tech DECIPHERED brings you the Entrepreneur and Investor views on Big Tech, VC and Start-up news, opinion pieces and research. We decipher their meaning, and add inside knowledge and context. Being nerds, we also discuss the latest gadgets and pop culture news Subscribe To Our Podcast Bertrand SchmittIntroduction Welcome to Episode 72 of Tech Deciphered, about our children’s future. What is our children’s future? What skills should they be developing? How should school be adapting to AI? What would be the functioning citizens and workers of the future look like, especially in the context of the AI revolution? Nuno, what’s your take? Maybe we start with the landscape. Nuno Goncalves PedroThe Landscape: 2026–2040 Let’s first frame it. What do people think is going to happen? Firstly, that there’s going to be a dramatic increase in productivity, and because of that dramatic increase in productivity, there are a lot of numbers that show that there’s going to be… AI will enable some labour productivity growth of 0.1 to 0.6% through 2040, which would be a figure that would be potentially rising even more depending on use of other technologies beyond generative AI, as much as 0.5 to 3.4% points annually, which would be ridiculous in terms of productivity enhancement. To be clear, we haven’t seen it yet. But if there are those dramatic increases in productivity expected by the market, then there will be job displacement. There will be people losing their jobs. There will be people that will need to be reskilled, and there will be a big shift that is similar to what happens when there’s a significant industrial revolution, like the Industrial Revolution of the late 19th century into the 20th century. Other numbers quoted would say that 30% of US jobs could be automated by 2030, which is a silly number, 30%, and that another 60% would see tremendously being altered. A lot of their tasks would be altered for those jobs. There’s also views that this is obviously fundamentally a global phenomenon, that as much as 9% of jobs could be lost to AI by 2030. I think question mark if this is a net number or a gross number, so it might be 9% our loss, but then maybe there’re other jobs that will emerge. It’s very clear that the landscape we have ahead of us is if there are any significant increases in productivity, there will be job displacement. There will be job shifting. There will be the need for reskilling. Therefore, I think on the downside, you would say there’s going to be job losses. We’ll have to reevaluate whether people should still work in general 5 days a week or not. Will we actually work in 10, 20, 30 years? I think that’s the doomsday scenario and what happens on that side of the fence. I think on the positive side, there’s also a discussion around there’ll be new jobs that emerge. There’ll be new jobs that maybe we don’t understand today, new job descriptions that actually don’t even exist yet that will emerge out this brave new world of AI. Bertrand SchmittYeah. I mean, let’s not forget how we get to a growing economy. I mean, there’s a measurement of a growing economy is GDP growth. Typically, you can simplify in two elements. One is the growth of the labour force, two, the rise of the productivity of that labour force, and that’s about it. Either you grow the economy by increasing the number of people, which in most of the Western world is not really happening, or you increase productivity. I think that we should not forget that growth of productivity is a backbone of growth for our economies, and that has been what has enabled the rise in prosperity across countries. I always take that as a win, personally. That growth in productivity has happened over the past decades through all the technological revolutions, from more efficient factories to oil and gas to computers, to network computers, to internet, to mobile and all the improvement in science, usually on the back of technological improvement. Personally, I welcome any rise in improvement we can get in productivity because there is at this stage simply no other choice for a growing world in terms of growing prosperity. In terms of change, we can already have a look at the past. There are so many jobs today you could not imagine they would exist 30 years ago. Take the rise of the influencer, for instance, who could have imagined that 30 years ago. Take the rise of the small mom-and-pop e-commerce owner, who could have imagined that. Of course, all the rise of IT as a profession. I mean, how few of us were there 30 years ago compared to today. I mean, this is what it was 30 years ago. I think there is a lot of change that already happened. I think as a society, we need to welcome that. If we go back even longer, 100 years ago, 150 years ago, let’s not forget, if I take a city like Paris, we used to have tens of thousands of people transporting water manually. Before we have running water in every home, we used to have boats going to the North Pole or to the northern region to bring back ice and basically pushing ice all the way to the Western world because we didn’t have fridges at the time. I think that when we look back in time about all the jobs that got displaced, I would say, Thank you. Thank you because these were not such easy jobs. Change is coming, but change is part of the human equation, at least. Industrial revolution, the past 250 years, it’s thanks to that that we have some improvement in living conditions everywhere. AI is changing stuff, but change is a constant, and we need to adapt and adjust. At least on my side, I’m glad that AI will be able to displace some jobs that were not so interesting to do in the first place in many situations. Maybe not dangerous like in the past because we are talking about replacing white job collars, but at least repetitive jobs are definitely going to be on the chopping block. Nuno Goncalves PedroWhat happens in terms of shift? We were talking about some numbers earlier. The World Economic Forum also has some numbers that predicts that there is a gross job creation rate of 14% from 2025 to 2030 and a displacement rate of 8%, so I guess they’re being optimistic, so a net growth in employment. I think that optimism relates to this thesis that, for example, efficiency, in particular in production and industrial environments, et cetera, might reduce labour there while increasing the demand for labour elsewhere because there is a natural lower cost base. If there’s more automation in production, therefore there’s more disposable income for people to do other things and to focus more on their side activities. Maybe, as I said before, not work 5 days a week, but maybe work four or three or whatever it is. What are the jobs of the future? What are the jobs that we see increasing in the future? Obviously, there’re a lot of jobs that relate to the technology side, that relate obviously to AI, that’s a little bit self-serving, and everything that relates to information technology, computer science, computer technology, computer engineering, et cetera. More broadly in electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, that might actually be more needed. Because there is a broadening of all of these elements of contact with digital, with AI over time also with robots and robotics, that those jobs will increase. There’s a thesis that actually other jobs that are a little bit more related to agriculture, education, et cetera, might not see a dramatic impact, that will still need for, I guess, teachers and the need for people working in farms, et cetera. I think this assumes that probably the AI revolution will come much before the fundamental evolution that will come from robotics afterwards. Then there’s obviously this discussion around declining roles. Anything that’s fundamentally routine, like data entry, clinical roles, paralegals, for example, routine manufacturing, anything that’s very repetitive in nature will be taken away. I have the personal thesis that there are jobs that are actually very blue-collar jobs, like HVAC installation, maintenance, et cetera, plumbing, that will be still done by humans for a very long time because there are actually, they appear to be repetitive, but they’re actually complex, and they require manual labour that cannot be easily, I think, right now done by robots and replacements of humans. Actually, I think there’re blue-collar roles that will be on the increase rather than on decrease that will demand a premium, because obviously, they are apprenticeship roles, certification roles, and that will demand a premium. Maybe we’re at the two ends. There’s an end that is very technologically driven of jobs that will need to necessarily increase, and there’s at the other end, jobs that are very menial but necessarily need to be done by humans, and therefore will also command a premium on the other end. Bertrand SchmittI think what you say make a lot of sense. If you think about AI as a stack, my guess is that for the foreseeable future, on the whole stack, and when I say stack, I mean from basic energy production because we need a lot of energy for AI, maybe to going up to all the computing infrastructure, to AI models, to AI training, to robotics. All this stack, we see an increase in expertise in workers and everything. Even if a lot of this work will benefit from AI improvement, the boom is so large that it will bring a lot of demand for anyone working on any part of the stack. Some of it is definitely blue-collar. When you have to build a data centre or energy power station, this requires a lot of blue-collar work. I would say, personally, I’m absolutely not a believer of the 3 or 4 days a week work week. I don’t believe a single second in that socialist paradise. If you want to call it that way. I think that’s not going to change. I would say today we can already see that breaking. I mean, if you take Europe, most European countries have a big issue with pension. The question is more to increase how long you are going to work because financially speaking, the equation is not there. Personally, I don’t think AI would change any of that. I agree with you in terms of some jobs from electricians to gas piping and stuff. There will still be demand and robots are not going to help soon on this job. There will be a big divergence between and all those that can be automated, done by AI and robots and becoming cheaper and cheaper and stuff that requires a lot of human work, manual work. I don’t know if it will become more expensive, but definitely, proportionally, in comparison, we look so expensive that you will have second thoughts about doing that investment to add this, to add that. I can see that when you have your own home, so many costs, some cost our product. You buy this new product, you add it to your home. It can be a water heater or something, built in a factory, relatively cheap. You see the installation cost, the maintenance cost. It’s many times the cost of the product itself. Nuno Goncalves PedroMaybe it’s a good time to put a caveat into our conversation. I mean, there’s a… Roy Amara was a futurist who came up with the Amara’s Law. We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and overestimate the effect in the long run. I prefer my own law, which is, we tend to overestimate the speed at which we get to a technological revolution and underestimate its impact. I think it’s a little bit like that. I think everyone now is like, “Oh, my God, we’re going to be having the AI overlords taking over us, and AGI is going to happen pretty quickly,” and all of that. I mean, AGI will probably happen at some point. We’re not really sure when. I don’t think anyone can tell you. I mean, there’re obviously a lot of ranges going on. Back to your point, for example, on the shift of the work week and how we work. I mean, just to be very clear, we didn’t use to have 5 days a week and 2 days a weekend. If we go back to religions, there was definitely Sabbath back in the day, and there was one day off, the day of the Lord and the day of God. Then we went to 2 days of weekend. I remember going to Korea back in 2005, and I think Korea shifted officially to 5 days a week, working week and 2 days weekend for some of the larger business, et cetera, in 2004. Actually, it took another whatever years for it to be pervasive in society. This is South Korea, so this is a developed market. We might be at some point moving to 4 days a week. Maybe France was ahead of the game. I know Bertrand doesn’t like this, the 35-hour week. Maybe we will have another shift in what defines the working week versus not. What defines what people need to do in terms of efficiency and how they work and all of that. I think it’s probably just going to take longer than we think. I think there’re some countries already doing it. I was reading maybe Finland was already thinking about moving to 4 days a week. There’re a couple of countries already working on it. Certainly, there’re companies already doing it as well. Bertrand SchmittYeah, I don’t know. I’m just looking at the financial equation of most countries. The disaster is so big in Western Europe, in the US. So much debt is out that needs to get paid that I don’t think any country today, unless there is a complete reversal of the finance, will be able to make a big change. You could argue maybe if we are in such a situation, it might be because we went too far in benefits, in vacation, in work days versus weekends. I’m not saying we should roll back, but I feel that at this stage, the proof is in the pudding. The finance of most developed countries are broken, so I don’t see a change coming up. Potentially, the other way around, people leaving to work more, unfortunately. We will see. My point is that AI will have to be so transformational for the productivity for countries, and countries will have to go back to finding their ways in terms of financial discipline to reach a level where we can truly profit from that. I think from my perspective, we have time to think about it in 10, 20 years. Right now, it’s BS at this stage of this discussion. Nuno Goncalves PedroYeah, there’s a dependency, Bertrand, which is there needs to be dramatic increases in productivity that need to happen that create an expansion of economy. Once that expansion is captured by, let’s say, government or let’s say by the state, it needs to be willingly fed back into society, which is not a given. There’re some governments who are going to be like, “No, you need to work for a living.” Tough luck. There’re no handouts, there’s nothing. There’s going to be other governments that will be pressured as well. I mean, even in a more socialist Europe, so to speak. There’re now a lot of pressures from very far-right, even extreme positions on what people need to do for a living and how much should the state actually intervene in terms of minimum salaries, et cetera, and social security. To your point, the economies are not doing well in and of themselves. Anyway, there would need to be tremendous expansion of economy and willingness by the state to give back to its citizens, which is also not a given. Bertrand SchmittAnd good financial discipline as well. Before we reach all these three. Reaping the benefits in a tremendous way, way above trend line, good financial discipline, and then some willingness to send back. I mean, we can talk about a dream. I think that some of this discussion was, in some ways, to have a discussion so early about this. It’s like, let’s start to talk about the benefits of the aeroplane industries in 1915 or 1910, a few years after the Wright brothers flight, and let’s make a decision based on what the world will be in 30 years from now when we reap this benefit. This is just not reasonable. This is not reasonable thinking. I remember seeing companies from OpenAI and others trying to push this narrative. It was just political agenda. It was nothing else. It was, “Let’s try to make look like AI so nice and great in the future, so you don’t complain on the short term about what’s happening.” I don’t think this is a good discussion to have for now. Let’s be realistic. Nuno Goncalves PedroJust for the sake of sharing it with our listeners, apparently there’re a couple of countries that have moved towards something a bit lower than 5 days a week. Belgium, I think, has legislated the ability for you to compress your work week into 4 days, where you could do 10 hours for 4 days, so 40 hours. UAE has some policy for government workers, 4.5 days. Iceland has some stuff around 35 to 36 hours, which is France has had that 35 hour thing. Lithuania for parents. Then just trials, it’s all over the shop. United Kingdom, my own Portugal, of course, Germany, Brazil, and South Africa, and a bunch of other countries, so interesting. There’s stuff going on. Bertrand SchmittFor sure. I mean, France managed to bankrupt itself playing the 75 hours work week since what, 2000 or something. I mean, yeah, it’s a choice of financial suicide, I would say. Nuno Goncalves PedroWonderful. The Future of Work: Human + AI Maybe moving a little bit towards the future of work and the coexistence of work of human and AI, I think the thesis that exists a little bit in the market is that the more positive thesis that leads to net employment growth and net employment creation, as we were saying, there’s shifting of professions, they’re rescaling, and there’s the new professions that will emerge, is the notion that human will need to continue working alongside with machine. I’m talking about robots, I’m also talking about software. Basically software can’t just always run on its own, and therefore, software serves as a layer of augmentation, that humans become augmented by AI, and therefore, they can be a lot more productive, and we can be a lot more productive. All of that would actually lead to a world where the efficiencies and the economic creation are incredible. We’ll have an unparalleled industrial evolution in our hands through AI. That’s one way of looking at it. We certainly at Chameleon, that’s how we think through AI and the AI layers that we’re creating with Mantis, which is our in-house platform at Chameleon, is that it’s augmenting us. Obviously, the human is still running the show at the end, making the toughest decisions, the more significant impact with entrepreneurs that we back, et cetera. AI augments us, but we run the show. Bertrand SchmittI totally agree with that perspective that first AI will bring a new approach, a human plus AI. Here in that situation, you really have two situations. Are you a knowledgeable user? Do you know your field well? Are you an expert? Are you an IT expert? Are you a medical doctor? Do you find your best way to optimise your work with AI? Are you knowledgeable enough to understand and challenge AI when you see weird output? You have to be knowledgeable in your field, but also knowledgeable in how to handle AI, because even experts might say, “Whatever AI says.” My guess is that will be the users that will benefit most from AI. Novice, I think, are in a bit tougher situation because if you use AI without truly understanding it, it’s like laying foundations on sand. Your stuff might crumble down the way, and you will have no clue what’s happening. Hopefully, you don’t put anyone in physical danger, but that’s more worrisome to me. I think some people will talk about the rise of vibe coding, for instance. I’ve seen AI so useful to improve coding in so many ways, but personally, I don’t think vibe coding is helpful. I mean, beyond doing a quick prototype or some stuff, but to put some serious foundation, I think it’s near useless if you have a pure vibe coding approach, obviously to each their own. I think the other piece of the puzzle, it’s not just to look at human plus AI. I think definitely there will be the other side as well, which is pure AI. Pure AI replacement. I think we start to see that with autonomous cars. We are close to be there. Here we’ll be in situation of maybe there is some remote control by some humans, maybe there is local control. We are talking about a huge scale replacement of some human activities. I think in some situation, let’s talk about work farms, for instance. That’s quite a special term, but basically is to describe work that is very repetitive in nature, requires a lot of humans. Today, if you do a loan approval, if you do an insurance claim analysis, you have hundreds, thousands, millions of people who are doing this job in Europe, in the US, or remotely outsourced to other countries like India. I think some of these jobs are fully at risk to be replaced. Would it be 100% replacement? Probably not. But a 9:1, 10:1 replacement? I think it’s definitely possible because these jobs have been designed, by the way, to be repetitive, to follow some very clear set of rules, to improve the rules, to remove any doubt if you are not sure. I think some of these jobs will be transformed significantly. I think we see two sides. People will become more efficient controlling an AI, being able to do the job of two people at once. On the other side, we see people who have much less control about their life, basically, and whose job will simply disappear. Nuno Goncalves PedroTwo points I would like to make. The first point is we’re talking about a state of AI that we got here, and we mentioned this in previous episodes of Tech Deciphered, through brute force, dramatically increased data availability, a lot of compute, lower network latencies, and all of that that has led us to where we are today. But it’s brute force. The key thing here is brute force. Therefore, when AI acts really well, it acts well through brute force, through seeing a bunch of things that have happened before. For example, in the case of coding, it might still outperform many humans in coding in many different scenarios, but it might miss hedge cases. It might actually not be as perfect and as great as one of these developers that has been doing it for decades who has this intuition and is a 10X developer. In some ways, I think what got us here is not maybe what’s going to get us to the next level of productivity as well, which is the unsupervised learning piece, the actually no learning piece, where you go into the world and figure stuff out. That world is emerging now, but it’s still not there in terms of AI algorithms and what’s happening. Again, a lot of what we’re seeing today is the outcome of the brute force movement that we’ve had over the last decade, decade and a half. The second point I’d like to make is to your point, Bertrand, you were going really well through, okay, if you’re a super experienced subject-matter expert, the way you can use AI is like, wow! Right? I mean, you are much more efficient, right? I was asked to do a presentation recently. When I do things in public, I don’t like to do it. If it’s a keynote, because I like to use my package stuff, there’s like six, seven presentations that I have prepackaged, and I can adapt around that. But if it’s a totally new thing, I don’t like to do it as a keynote because it requires a lot of preparation. Therefore, I’m like, I prefer to do a fire set chat or a panel or whatever. I got asked to do something, a little bit what is taking us to this topic today around what’s happening to our children and all of that is like, “God! I need to develop this from scratch.” The honest truth is if you have domain expertise around many areas, you can do it very quickly with the aid of different tools in AI. Anything from Gemini, even with Nana Banana, to ChatGPT and other tools that are out there for you and framing, how would you do that? But the problem then exists with people that are just at the beginning of their careers, people that have very little expertise and experience, and people that are maybe coming out of college where their knowledge is mostly theoretical. What happens to those people? Even in computer engineering, even in computer science, even in software development, how do those people get to the next level? I think that’s one of the interesting conversations to be had. What happens to the recent graduate or the recent undergrad? How do those people get the expertise they need to go to the next level? Can they just be replaced by AI agents today? What’s their role in terms of the workforce, and how do they fit into that workforce? Bertrand SchmittNo, I mean, that’s definitely the biggest question. I think that a lot of positions, if you are really knowledgeable, good at your job, if you are that 10X developer, I don’t think your job is at risk. Overall, you always have some exceptions, some companies going through tough times, but I don’t think it’s an issue. On the other end, that’s for sure, the recent new graduates will face some more trouble to learn on their own, start their career, and go to that 10X productivity level. But at the same time, let’s also not kid ourselves. If we take software development, this is a profession that increase in number of graduates tremendously over the past 30 years. I don’t think everyone basically has the talent to really make it. Now that you have AI, for sure, the bar to justify why you should be there, why you should join this company is getting higher and higher. Being just okay won’t be enough to get you a career in IT. You will need to show that you are great or potential to be great. That might make things tough for some jobs. At the same time, I certainly believe there will be new opportunities that were not there before. People will have to definitely adjust to that new reality, learn and understand what’s going on, what are the options, and also try to be very early on, very confident at using AI as much as they can because for sure, companies are going to only hire workers that have shown their capacity to work well with AI. Nuno Goncalves PedroMy belief is that it generates new opportunities for recent undergrads, et cetera, of building their own microbusinesses or nano businesses. To your point, maybe getting jobs because they’ll be forced to move faster within their jobs and do less menial and repetitive activities and be more focused on actual dramatic intellectual activities immediately from the get go, which is not a bad thing. Their acceleration into knowledge will be even faster. I don’t know. It feels to me maybe there’s a positivity to it. Obviously, if you’ve stayed in a big school, et cetera, that there will be some positivity coming out of that. The Transformation of Education Maybe this is a good segue to education. How does education change to adapt to a new world where AI is a given? It’s not like I can check if you’re faking it on your homework or if you’re doing a remote examination or whatever, if you’re using or not tools, it’s like you’re going to use these tools. What happens in that case, and how does education need to shift in this brave new world of AI augmentation and AI enhancements to students? Bertrand SchmittYes, I agree with you. There will be new opportunities. I think people need to be adaptable. What used to be an absolute perfect career choice might not be anymore. You need to learn what changes are happening in the industry, and you need to adjust to that, especially if you’re a new graduate. Nuno Goncalves PedroMaybe we’ll talk a little bit about education, Bertrand, and how education would fundamentally shift. I think one of the things that’s been really discussed is what are the core skills that need to be developed? What are the core skills that will be important in the future? I think critical thinking is probably most important than ever. The ability to actually assimilate information and discern which information is correct or incorrect and which information can lead you to a conclusion or not, for example, I think is more important than ever. The ability to assimilate a bunch of pieces of information, make a decision or have an insight or foresight out of that information is very, very critical. The ability to be analytical around how you look at information and to really distinguish what’s fact from what’s opinion, I think is probably quite important. Maybe moving away more and more from memorisation from just cramming information into your brain like we used to do it in college, you have to know every single algorithm for whatever. It’s like, “Who gives a shit? I can just go and search it.” There’s these shifts that are not simple because I think education, in particular in the last century, has maybe been too focused on knowing more and more knowledge, on learning this knowledge. Now it’s more about learning how to process the knowledge rather than learning how to apprehend it. Because the apprehension doesn’t matter as much because you can have this information at any point in time. The information is available to you at the touch of a finger or voice or whatever. But the ability to then use the information to do something with it is not. That’s maybe where you start distinguishing the different level degrees of education and how things are taught. Bertrand SchmittHonestly, what you just say or describe could apply of the changes we went through the past 30 years. Just using internet search has for sure tremendously changed how you can do any knowledge worker job. Suddenly you have the internet at your fingertips. You can search about any topics. You have direct access to a Wikipedia or something equivalent in any field. I think some of this, we already went through it, and I hope we learned the consequence of these changes. I would say what is new is the way AI itself is working, because when you use AI, you realise that it can utter to you complete bullshit in a very self-assured way of explaining something. It’s a bit more scary than it used to be, because in the past, that algorithm trying to present you the most relevant stuff based on some algorithm was not trying to present you the truth. It’s a list of links. Maybe it was more the number one link versus number 100. But ultimately, it’s for you to make your own opinion. Now you have some chatbot that’s going to tell you that for sure this is the way you should do it. Then you check more, and you realise, no, it’s totally wrong. It’s definitely a slight change in how you have to apprehend this brave new world. Also, this AI tool, the big change, especially with generative AI, is the ability for them to give you the impression they can do the job at hand by themselves when usually they cannot. Nuno Goncalves PedroIndeed. There’s definitely a lot of things happening right now that need to fundamentally shift. Honestly, I think in the education system the problem is the education system is barely adapted to the digital world. Even today, if you studied at a top school like Stanford, et cetera, there’s stuff you can do online, there’s more and more tools online. But the teaching process has been very centred on syllabus, the teachers, later on the professors, and everything that’s around it. In class presence, there’s been minor adaptations. People sometimes allow to use their laptops in the classroom, et cetera, or their mobile phones. But it’s been done the other way around. It’s like the tools came later, and they got fed into the process. Now I think there needs to be readjustments. If we did this ground up from a digital first or a mobile first perspective and an AI first perspective, how would we do it? That changes how teachers and professors should interact with the classrooms, with the role of the classroom, the role of the class itself, the role of homework. A lot of people have been debating that. What do you want out of homework? It’s just that people cram information and whatever, or do you want people to show critical thinking in a specific different manner, or some people even go one step further. It’s like, there should be no homework. People should just show up in class and homework should move to the class in some ways. Then what happens outside of the class? What are people doing at home? Are they learning tools? Are they learning something else? Are they learning to be productive in responding to teachers? But obviously, AI augmented in doing so. I mean, still very unclear what this looks like. We’re still halfway through the revolution, as we said earlier. The revolution is still in motion. It’s not realised yet. Bertrand SchmittI would quite separate higher education, university and beyond, versus lower education, teenager, kids. Because I think the core up to the point you are a teenager or so, I think the school system should still be there to guide you, discovering and learning and being with your peers. I think what is new is that, again, at some point, AI could potentially do your job, do your homework. We faced similar situation in the past with the rise of Wikipedia, online encyclopedias and the stuff. But this is quite dramatically different. Then someone could write your essays, could answer your maths work. I can see some changes where you talk about homework, it’s going to be classwork instead. No work at home because no one can trust that you did it yourself anymore going forward, but you will have to do it in the classroom, maybe spend more time at school so that we can verify that you really did your job. I think there is real value to make sure that you can still think by yourself. The same way with the rise of calculators 40 years ago, I think it was the right thing to do to say, “You know what? You still need to learn the basics of doing calculations by hand.” Yes, I remember myself a kid thinking, “What the hell? I have a calculator. It’s working very well.” But it was still very useful because you can think in your head, you can solve complex problems in your head, you can check some output that it’s right or wrong if it’s coming from a calculator. There was a real value to still learn the basics. At the same point, it was also right to say, “You know what? Once you know the basics, yes, for sure, the calculator will take over because we’re at the point.” I think that was the right balance that was put in place with the rise of calculators. We need something similar with AI. You need to be able to write by yourself, to do stuff by yourself. At some point, you have to say, “Yeah, you know what? That long essays that we asked you to do for the sake of doing long essays? What’s the point?” At some point, yeah, that would be a true question. For higher education, I think personally, it’s totally ripe for full disruption. You talk about the traditional system trying to adapt. I think we start to be at the stage where “It should be the other way around.” It should be we should be restarted from the ground up because we simply have different tools, different ways. I think at this stage, many companies if you take, [inaudible 00:33:01] for instance, started to recruit people after high school. They say, “You know what? Don’t waste your time in universities. Don’t spend crazy shitload of money to pay for an education that’s more or less worthless.” Because it used to be a way to filter people. You go to good school, you have a stamp that say, “This guy is good enough, knows how to think.” But is it so true anymore? I mean, now that universities have increased the enrolment so many times over, and your university degree doesn’t prove much in terms of your intelligence or your capacity to work hard, quite frankly. If the universities are losing the value of their stamp and keep costing more and more and more, I think it’s a fair question to say, “Okay, maybe this is not needed anymore.” Maybe now companies can directly find the best talents out there, train them themselves, make sure that ultimately it’s a win-win situation. If kids don’t have to have big loans anymore, companies don’t have to pay them as much, and everyone is winning. I think we have reached a point of no return in terms of value of university degrees, quite frankly. Of course, there are some exceptions. Some universities have incredible programs, incredible degrees. But as a whole, I think we are reaching a point of no return. Too expensive, not enough value in the degree, not a filter anymore. Ultimately, I think there is a case to be made for companies to go back directly to the source and to high school. Nuno Goncalves PedroI’m still not ready to eliminate and just say higher education doesn’t have a role. I agree with the notion that it’s continuous education role that needs to be filled in a very different way. Going back to K-12, I think the learning of things is pretty vital that you learn, for example, how to write, that you learn cursive and all these things is important. I think the role of the teacher, and maybe actually even later on of the professors in higher education, is to teach people the critical information they need to know for the area they’re in. Basic math, advanced math, the big thinkers in philosophy, whatever is that you’re studying, and then actually teach the students how to use the tools that they need, in particular, K-12, so that they more rapidly apprehend knowledge, that they more rapidly can do exercises, that they more rapidly do things. I think we’ve had a static view on what you need to learn for a while. That’s, for example, in the US, where you have AP classes, like advanced placement classes, where you could be doing math and you could be doing AP math. You’re like, dude. In some ways, I think the role of the teacher and the interaction with the students needs to go beyond just the apprehension of knowledge. It also has to have apprehension of knowledge, but it needs to go to the apprehension of tools. Then the application of, as we discussed before, critical thinking, analytical thinking, creative thinking. We haven’t talked about creativity for all, but obviously the creativity that you need to have around certain problems and the induction of that into the process is critical. It’s particular in young kids and how they’re developing their learning skills and then actually accelerate learning. In that way, what I’m saying, I’m not sure I’m willing to say higher education is dead. I do think this mass production of higher education that we have, in particular in the US. That’s incredibly costly. A lot of people in Europe probably don’t see how costly higher education is because we’re educated in Europe, they paid some fee. A lot of the higher education in Europe is still, to a certain extent, subsidised or done by the state. There is high degree of subsidisation in it, so it’s not really as expensive as you’d see in the US. But someone spending 200-300K to go to a top school in the US to study for four years for an undergrad, that doesn’t make sense. For tuition alone, we’re talking about tuition alone. How does that work? Why is it so expensive? Even if I’m a Stanford or a Harvard or a University of Pennsylvania or whatever, whatever, Ivy League school, if I’m any of those, to command that premium, I don’t think makes much sense. To your point, maybe it is about thinking through higher education in a different way. Technical schools also make sense. Your ability to learn and learn and continue to education also makes sense. You can be certified. There are certifications all around that also makes sense. I do think there’s still a case for higher education, but it needs to be done in a different mould, and obviously the cost needs to be reassessed. Because it doesn’t make sense for you to be in debt that dramatically as you are today in the US. Bertrand SchmittI mean, for me, that’s where I’m starting when I’m saying it’s broken. You cannot justify this amount of money except in a very rare and stratified job opportunities. That means for a lot of people, the value of this equation will be negative. It’s like some new, indented class of people who owe a lot of money and have no way to get rid of this loan. Sorry. There are some ways, like join the government Task Force, work for the government, that at some point you will be forgiven your loans. Some people are going to just go after government jobs just for that reason, which is quite sad, frankly. I think we need a different approach. Education can be done, has to be done cheaper, should be done differently. Maybe it’s just regular on the job training, maybe it is on the side, long by night type of approach. I think there are different ways to think about. Also, it can be very practical. I don’t know you, but there are a lot of classes that are not really practical or not very tailored to the path you have chosen. Don’t get me wrong, there is always value to see all the stuff, to get a sense of the world around you. But this has a cost. If it was for free, different story. But nothing is free. I mean, your parents might think it’s free, but at the end of the day, it’s their taxes paying for all of this. The reality is that it’s not free. It’s costing a lot of money at the end of the day. I think we absolutely need to do a better job here. I think internet and now AI makes this a possibility. I don’t know you, but personally, I’ve learned so much through online classes, YouTube videos, and the like, that it never cease to amaze me how much you can learn, thanks to the internet, and keep up to date in so many ways on some topics. Quite frankly, there are some topics that there is not a single university that can teach you what’s going on because we’re talking about stuff that is so precise, so focused that no one is building a degree around that. There is no way. Nuno Goncalves PedroI think that makes sense. Maybe bring it back to core skills. We’ve talked about a couple of core skills, but maybe just to structure it a little bit for you, our listener. I think there’s a big belief that critical thinking will be more important than ever. We already talked a little bit about that. I think there’s a belief that analytical thinking, the ability to, again, distinguish fact from opinion, ability to distinguish elements from different data sources and make sure that you see what those elements actually are in a relatively analytical manner. Actually the ability to extract data in some ways. Active learning, proactive learning and learning strategies. I mean, the ability to proactively learn, proactively search, be curious and search for knowledge. Complex problem-solving, we also talked a little bit about it. That goes hand in hand normally with critical thinking and analysis. Creativity, we also talked about. I think originality, initiative, I think will be very important for a long time. I’m not saying AI at some point won’t be able to emulate genuine creativity. I wouldn’t go as far as saying that, but for the time being, it has tremendous difficulty doing so. Bertrand SchmittBut you can use AI in creative endeavours. Nuno Goncalves PedroOf course, no doubt. Bertrand SchmittYou can do stuff you will be unable to do, create music, create videos, create stuff that will be very difficult. I see that as an evolution of tools. It’s like now cameras are so cheap to create world-class quality videos, for instance. That if you’re a student, you want to learn cinema, you can do it truly on the cheap. But now that’s the next level. You don’t even need actors, you don’t even need the real camera. You can start to make movies. It’s amazing as a learning tool, as a creative tool. It’s for sure a new art form in a way that we have seen expanding on YouTube and other places, and the same for creating new images, new music. I think that AI can be actually a tool for expression and for creativity, even in its current form. Nuno Goncalves PedroAbsolutely. A couple of other skills that people would say maybe are soft skills, but I think are incredibly powerful and very distinctive from machines. Empathy, the ability to figure out how the other person’s feeling and why they’re feeling like that. Adaptability, openness, the flexibility, the ability to drop something and go a different route, to maybe be intellectually honest and recognise this is the wrong way and the wrong angle. Last but not the least, I think on the positive side, tech literacy. I mean, a lot of people are, oh, we don’t need to be tech literate. Actually, I think this is a moment in time where you need to be more tech literate than ever. It’s almost a given. It’s almost like table stakes, that you are at some tech literacy. What matters less? I think memorisation and just the cramming of information and using your brain as a library just for the sake of it, I think probably will matter less and less. If you are a subject or a class that’s just solely focused on cramming your information, I feel that’s probably the wrong way to go. I saw some analysis that the management of people is less and less important. I actually disagree with that. I think in the interim, because of what we were discussing earlier, that subject-matter experts at the top end can do a lot of stuff by themselves and therefore maybe need to less… They have less people working for them because they become a little bit more like superpowered individual contributors. But I feel that’s a blip rather than what’s going to happen over time. I think collaboration is going to be a key element of what needs to be done in the future. Still, I don’t see that changing, and therefore, management needs to be embedded in it. What other skills should disappear or what other skills are less important to be developed, I guess? Bertrand SchmittWorld learning, I’ve never, ever been a fan. I think that one for sure. But at the same time, I want to make sure that we still need to learn about history or geography. What we don’t want to learn is that stupid word learning. I still remember as a teenager having to learn the list of all the 100 French departments. I mean, who cared? I didn’t care about knowing the biggest cities of each French department. It was useless to me. But at the same time, geography in general, history in general, there is a lot to learn from the past from the current world. I think we need to find that right balance. The details, the long list might not be that necessary. At the same time, the long arc of history, our world where it is today, I think there is a lot of value. I think you talk about analysing data. I think this one is critical because the world is generating more and more data. We need to benefit from it. There is no way we can benefit from it if we don’t understand how data is produced, what data means. If we don’t understand the base of statistical analysis. I think some of this is definitely critical. But for stuff, we have to do less. It’s beyond world learning. I don’t know, honestly. I don’t think the core should change so much. But the tools we use to learn the core, yes, probably should definitely improve. Nuno Goncalves PedroOne final debate, maybe just to close, I think this chapter on education and skill building and all of that. There’s been a lot of discussion around specialisation versus generalisation, specialists versus generalists. I think for a very long time, the world has gone into a route that basically frames specialisation as a great thing. I think both of us have lived in Silicon Valley. I still do, but we both lived in Silicon Valley for a significant period of time. The centre of the universe in terms of specialisation, you get more and more specialised. I think we’re going into a world that becomes a little bit different. It becomes a little bit like what Amazon calls athletes, right? The T-Pi-shaped people get the most value, where you’re brought on top, you’re a very strong generalist on top, and you have a lot of great soft skills around management and empathy and all that stuff. Then you might have one or two subject matter expertise areas. Could be like business development and sales or corporate development and business development or product management and something else. I think those are the winners of the future. The young winners of the future are going to be more and more T-pi-shaped, if I had to make a guess. Specialisation matters, but maybe not as much as it matters today. It matters from the perspective that you still have to have spikes in certain areas of focus. But I’m not sure that you get more and more specialised in the area you’re in. I’m not sure that’s necessarily how humans create most value in their arena of deployment and development. Professionally, and therefore, I’m not sure education should be more and more specialised just for the sake of it. What do you think? Bertrand SchmittI think that that’s a great point. I would say I could see an argument for both. I think there is always some value in being truly an expert on a topic so that you can keep digging around, keep developing the field. You cannot develop a field without people focused on developing a field. I think that one is there to stay. At the same time, I can see how in many situations, combining knowledge of multiple fields can bring tremendous value. I think it’s very clear as well. I think it’s a balance. We still need some experts. At the same time, there is value to be quite horizontal in terms of knowledge. I think what is still very valuable is the ability to drill through whenever you need. I think that we say it’s actually much easier than before. That for me is a big difference. I can see how now you can drill through on topics that would have been very complex to go into. You will have to read a lot of books, watch a lot of videos, potentially do a new education before you grasp much about a topic. Well, now, thanks to AI, you can drill very quickly on topic of interest to you. I think that can be very valuable. Again, if you just do that blindly, that’s calling for trouble. But if you have some knowledge in the area, if you know how to deal with AI, at least today’s AI and its constraints, I think there is real value you can deliver thanks to an ability to drill through when you don’t. For me, personally, one thing I’ve seen is some people who are generalists have lost this ability. They have lost this ability to drill through on a topic, become expert on some topic very quickly. I think you need that. If you’re a VC, you need to analyse opportunity, you need to discover a new space very quickly. We say, I think some stuff can move much quicker than before. I’m always careful now when I see some pure generalists, because one thing I notice is that they don’t know how to do much anything any more. That’s a risk. We have example of very, very, very successful people. Take an Elon Musk, take a Steve Jobs. They have this ability to drill through to the very end of any topic, and that’s a real skill. Sometimes I see people, you should trust the people below. They know better on this and that, and you should not question experts and stuff. Hey, guys, how is it that they managed to build such successful companies? Is their ability to drill through and challenge hardcore experts. Yes, they will bring top people in the field, but they have an ability to learn quickly a new space and to drill through on some very technical topics and challenge people the right way. Challenge, don’t smart me. Not the, I don’t care, just do it in 10 days. No, going smartly, showing people those options, learning enough in the field to be dangerous. I think that’s a very, very important skill to have. Nuno Goncalves PedroMaybe switching to the dark side and talking a little bit about the bad stuff. I think a lot of people have these questions. There’s been a lot of debate around ChatGPT. I think there’s still a couple of court cases going on, a suicide case that I recently a bit privy to of a young man that killed himself, and OpenAI and ChatGPT as a tool currently really under the magnifying glass for, are people getting confused about AI and AI looks so similar to us, et cetera. The Ethics, Safety, and Privacy Landscape Maybe let’s talk about the ethics and safety and privacy landscape a little bit and what’s happening. Sadly, AI will also create the advent of a world that has still a lot of biases at scale. I mean, let’s not forget the AI is using data and data has biases. The models that are being trained on this data will have also biases that we’re seeing with AI, the ability to do things that are fake, deep fakes in video and pictures, et cetera. How do we, as a society, start dealing with that? How do we, as a society, start dealing with all the attacks that are going on? On the privacy side, the ability for these models and for these tools that we have today to actually have memory of the conversations we’ve had with them already and have context on what we said before and be able to act on that on us, and how is that information being farmed and that data being farmed? How is it being used? For what purposes is it being used? As I said, the dark side of our conversation today. I think we’ve been pretty positive until now. But in this world, I think things are going to get worse before they get better. Obviously, there’s a lot of money being thrown at rapid evolution of these tools. I don’t see moratoriums coming anytime soon or bans on tools coming anytime soon. The world will need to adapt very, very quickly. As we’ve talked in previous episodes, regulation takes a long time to adapt, except Europe, which obviously regulates maybe way too fast on technology and maybe not really on use cases and user flows. But how do we deal with this world that is clearly becoming more complex? Bertrand SchmittI mean, on the European topic, I believe Europe should focus on building versus trying to sensor and to control and to regulate. But going back to your point, I think there are some, I mean, very tough use case when you see about voice cloning, for instance. Grandparents believing that their kids are calling them, have been kidnapped when there is nothing to it, and they’re being extorted. AI generating deepfakes that enable sextortion, that stuff. I mean, it’s horrible stuff, obviously. I’m not for regulation here, to be frank. I think that we should for sure prosecute to the full extent of the law. The law has already a lot of tools to deal with this type of situation. But I can see some value to try to prevent that in some tools. If you are great at building tools to generate a fake voice, maybe you should make sure that you are not helping scammers. If you can generate easily images, you might want to make sure that you cannot easily generate tools that can be used for creating deep fakes and sex extortion. I think there are things that should be done by some providers to limit such terrible use cases. At the same time, the genie is out. There is also that part around, okay, the world will need to adapt. But yeah, you cannot trust everything that is done. What could have looked like horrible might not be true. You need to think twice about some of this, what you see, what you hear. We need to adjust how we live, how we work, but also how we prevent that. New tools, I believe, will appear. We will learn maybe to be less trustful on some stuff, but that is what it is. Nuno Goncalves PedroMaybe to follow up on that, I fully agree with everything you just said. We need to have these tools that will create boundary conditions around it as well. I think tech will need to fight tech in some ways, or we’ll need to find flaws in tech, but I think a lot of money needs to be put in it as well. I think my shout-out here, if people are listening to us, are entrepreneurs, et cetera, I think that’s an area that needs more and more investment, an area that needs more and more tooling platforms that are helpful to this. It’s interesting because that’s a little bit like how OpenAI was born. OpenAI was born to be a positive AI platform into the future. Then all of a sudden we’re like, “Can we have tools to control ChatGPT and all these things that are out there now?” How things have changed, I guess. But we definitely need to have, I think, a much more significant investment into these toolings and platforms than we do have today. Otherwise, I don’t see things evolving much better. There’s going to be more and more of this. There’s going to be more and more deep fakes, more and more, lack of contextualisation. There’s countries now that allow you to get married with not a human. It’s like you can get married to an algorithm or a robot or whatever. It’s like, what the hell? What’s happening now? It’s crazy. Hopefully, we’ll have more and more boundary conditions. Bertrand SchmittYeah, I think it will be a boom for cybersecurity. No question here. Tools to make sure that is there a better trust system or detecting the fake. It’s not going to be easy, but it has been the game in cybersecurity for a long time. You have some new Internet tools, some new Internet products. You need to find a difference against it and the constant war between the attackers and the defender. Nuno Goncalves PedroThe Parental Playbook: Actionable Strategies Maybe last but not the least in today’s episode, the parent playbook I’m a parent, what should I do I’ll actually let you start first. Bertrand, I’m parent-alike, but I am, sadly, not a parent, so I’ll let you start first, and then I’ll share some of my perspectives as well as a parent-like figure. Bertrand SchmittYeah, as a parent to an 8-year, I would say so far, no real difference than before. She will do some homework on an iPad. But beyond that, I cannot say I’ve seen at this stage so much difference. I think it will come up later when you have different type of homeworks when the kids start to be able to use computers on their own. What I’ve seen, however, is some interesting use cases. When my daughter is not sure about the spelling, she simply asks, Siri. “Hey, Siri, how do you spell this or this or that?” I didn’t teach her that. All of this came on her own. She’s using Siri for a few stuff for work, and I’m quite surprised in a very smart, useful way. It’s like, that’s great. She doesn’t need to ask me. She can ask by herself. She’s more autonomous. Why not? It’s a very efficient way for her to work and learn about the world. I probably feel sad when she asks Siri if she’s her friend. That does not feel right to me. But I would say so far, so good. I’ve seen only AI as a useful tool and with absolutely very limited risk. At the same time, for sure, we don’t let our kid close to any social media or the like. I think some of this stuff is for sure dangerous. I think as a parent, you have to be very careful before authorising any social media. I guess at some point you have no choice, but I think you have to be very careful, very gradual, and putting a lot of controls and safety mechanism I mean, you talk about kids committing suicide. It’s horrible. As a parent, I don’t think you can have a bigger worry than that. Suddenly your kids going crazy because someone bullied them online, because someone tried to extort them online. This person online could be someone in the same school or some scammer on the other side of the world. This is very scary. I think we need to have a lot of control on our kids’ digital life as well as being there for them on a lot of topics and keep drilling into them how a lot of this stuff online is not true, is fake, is not important, and being careful, yes, to raise them, to be critical of stuff, and to share as much as possible with our parents. I think We have to be very careful. But I would say some of the most dangerous stuff so far, I don’t think it’s really coming from AI. It’s a lot more social media in general, I would say, but definitely AI is adding another layer of risk. Nuno Goncalves PedroFrom my perspective, having helped raise three kids, having been a parent-like role today, what I would say is I would highlight against the skills that I was talking about before, and I would work on developing those skills. Skills that relate to curiosity, to analytical behaviours at the same time as being creative, allowing for both, allowing for the left brain, right brain, allowing for the discipline and structure that comes with analytical thinking to go hand in hand with doing things in a very, very different way and experimenting and failing and doing things and repeating them again. All the skills that I mentioned before, focusing on those skills. I was very fortunate to have a parental unit. My father and my mother were together all their lives: my father, sadly, passing away 5 years ago that were very, very different, my mother, more of a hacker in mindset. Someone was very curious, medical doctor, allowing me to experiment and to be curious about things around me and not simplifying interactions with me, saying it as it was with a language that was used for that particular purpose, allowing me to interact with her friends, who were obviously adults. And then on the other side, I have my father, someone who was more disciplined, someone who was more ethical, I think that becomes more important. The ability to be ethical, the ability to have moral standing. I’m Catholic. There is a religious and more overlay to how I do things. Having the ability to portray that and pass that to the next generation and sharing with them what’s acceptable and what’s not acceptable, I think is pretty critical and even more critical than it was before. The ability to be structured, to say and to do what you say, not just actually say a bunch of stuff and not do it. So, I think those things don’t go out of use, but I would really spend a lot more focus on the ability to do critical thinking, analytical thinking, having creative ideas, obviously, creating a little bit of a hacker mindset, how to cut corners to get to something is actually really more and more important. The second part is with all of this, the overlay of growth mindset. I feel having a more flexible mindset rather than a fixed mindset. What I mean by that is not praising your kids or your grandchildren for being very intelligent or very beautiful, which are fixed things, they’re static things, but praising them for the effort they put into something, for the learning that they put into something, for the process, raising the