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Play Episode Listen Later Sep 11, 2026 79:58

September 11, 2001, changed Bob Ellis's life, just as it changed mine. Bob was working at the Pentagon that morning and had walked out of the building only minutes before Flight 77 struck the area where his meeting had taken place. You will hear how he immediately became part of the response, helping organize emergency supplies and support for those working at the Pentagon. We also compare our experiences from two different locations that day, Bob at the Pentagon and me at the World Trade Center with my guide dog Roselle. Twenty-five years later, our conversation is about more than remembering 9/11. It is about leadership, teamwork, service, controlling fear, and deciding what we do with the life we have been given. I believe Bob's story offers lessons we can all use when the unexpected happens. Highlights: 05:29-Bob shares how his early life and military support career shaped his path. 23:53-He recalls realizing the first World Trade Center strike was not an accident. 32:59-Bob describes being just 300 yards away when the Pentagon was hit. 37:00-He explains how he helped organize emergency relief supplies within hours. 1:03:54-Michael reflects on survival, fear, and the responsibility to move forward. 1:06:55-Bob shares the lasting life lessons he took from September 11. About the Guest: Bob Ellis is the Vice President, American Logistics Association responsible for Exchange, MWR, Food Service Operations. The native of Fort Walton Beach, Florida began his career with AAFES in 1972. From 1972 through 1984, he held retail management positions as a Branch Manager, and Operations Manager Main Store. In 1985, Ellis began a string of assignments as an Exchange General Manager trainee at Fort Belvoir, VA, and Exchange General Manager, Fort Hamilton, NY and Carlisle Barrack PA, (Army War College). Assignments as Area Retail Manager and General Manager at the former Japan Area Exchange ran from 1989-1992. In 1992, Ellis was transferred to Travis AFB in California as Retail Manager, Main Store. In 1994, Ellis was selected for the General Manager's position at Travis and spent three years assisting in the design and new construction effort of the largest retail Main Store ever constructed by AAFES. From 1997 to 2002, Ellis held the position of Director of AAFES' Washington Office, serving as the principal representative of the Commander, AAFES to the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Departments of the Army and the Air Force, Congressional offices and industry representatives. Notable among his accomplishments, Ellis was instrumental in spearheading AAFES support to the Pentagon after the attacks of September 11th. Within 48 hours of the event, AAFES established a mobile exchange in the shadow of the impact site to support rescue workers and investigators with critical need and personal comfort items. After Washington, Ellis moved to AAFES Headquarters' in Dallas to assume the Vice President Specialty and Consumables position. In this role, Ellis was responsible for the SD-C Category Team Managers/Buyers. In August 2003, Ellis took his a position as Vice President of Corporate Planning and Communications where he managed the development of AAFES long range and contingency planning programs, oversight of corporate public affairs and ensured compliance with Department of Defense policy guidance with the goal of preserving and protecting the exchange benefit for soldiers and airmen and their families around the globe. Bob joined the ALA on 31 July 2006 where he continues to serve a role in military resale supporting Exchange, MWR, and Food Service, operations still serving military resale over 51 years continuous service. Ways to connect with Bob**:** You can find more benefits how Branded Riches can help you build your Brand, Product, Business, and Yourself at https://www.BrandedRiches.com Connect: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neryk-davydov Branded Riches Audiobook by Neryk Davydov https://www.audible.com/pd/Branded-Riches-Audiobook/B0GCP9MMRB Branded Riches Book https://www.amazon.com/Branded-Riches-Increase-Income-Irresistible/dp/1987753836 $5 Free Gift for Creating A New Ovato Wallet www.ovatoCoin.com About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:00 Everyone, I am Michael Hingson, the host of Unstoppable Mindset. You've heard my voice for the last 471 episodes, but I'm calling you all out today and asking you to listen to this because we're going to make a special announcement now regarding the next four episodes, starting with 472. We're going to help commemorate the historic events of September 11, 2001. Yes, they're definitely historic, although not necessarily the most positive things that have ever happened. But as many of you may know, I was in the World Trade Center working on September 11, 2001, on the 78th floor of Tower One, and escaped with my guide dog. I've delivered a speech about that, which we put in the first episode of this podcast series back in August of 2021. But this Friday, episode 472 is going to have an updated speech that I delivered just a few years ago at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. That festival is a yearly event celebrating different kinds of things that have happened in American history, and I was invited to come and speak, which I did. I'm going to put that speech up for you as episode 472. I think you'll find it enlightening. It'll teach you something about blindness and blind people. It'll tell you my story, and it'll give you some inspiration that I hope you will find helpful. Next Tuesday, september 8, Michelle Abraham is going to interview me. Michelle is with Amplify You, the company that does all of our back office stuff and helps me with the editing and other things regarding the podcast. Michelle owns her own podcast, and she is going to interview me about September 11th and other kinds of things relating to what I've learned and things that have happened over the past 25 years. She's also going to be putting this up on her podcast Amplify You, so you can find us in a lot of different places. On September 11th, I'm going to chat with Bob Ellis. Bob was in the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, and had literally just walked out the door of the Pentagon when the plane crashed into the Pentagon and did the things and the damage that it did, and of course generated all the things that occurred at the Pentagon. On the 15th of September, I'm going to come back and have a conversation with all of you about lessons that I've learned over the past 25 years, and just reminisce a little bit about all of that. While the podcast is occurring on September 11th, I will be actually in Kilgore, Texas, doing a speech about September 11th. So lots of things going on, I hope you listen to these episodes. I hope that you'll tell everyone that you can about them. I really enjoy all of the support that you've given us over the years, and we're going to continue to do things with Unstoppable Mindset. And of course, as always, if you'd like to come on or know anyone who would, please let us know. We're always looking for guests. Thanks very much. We'll see you on Friday with the first of these four episodes. What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingston, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. You are listening to us today, or at least I'm assuming you're listening just when this came out. But whenever you're listening, it is today, September 11th, 2026, which is needless to say, a special day. If you have kept up with my podcast from the beginning, you know that I worked in the World Trade Center on September 11th, and ever since then I've been a public speaker, traveling the world, talking about trust, teamwork, leadership, the human-animal bond, and a variety of things. But recently, I met Bob Ellis. Michael Hingson 04:40 Now, Bob, as it turns out, on September 11th worked at the Pentagon, and I have not ever really had the opportunity to talk with someone who was at the Pentagon, especially on September 11th. But we get to chat about that today, and Bob knows our rules, which are basically. He sent me a series of questions that he wants to cover, but we are doing this as a conversation, so we'll probably talk about a lot of the things that he specifically sent. But we can go any old way that Bob wants to go, so that's what we'll we'll make this really fun. And I'm really looking forward to having the opportunity to talk with Bob. So again, welcome to September 11th, and Bob, I want to welcome you to Unstoppable Mindset. We're really glad you're here, Bob Ellis 05:28 Michael. Thank you for inviting me. I know you you've inquired several times, and I've debated it, and and I was just holding it for the right time, and this is the right time-the 25th anniversary of the event. Michael Hingson 05:40 Yeah, it is, and and and as as we've said, if you find anybody who needs a a speaker to come in and speak, let me know. But but for now, we get to chat about you and and hear your story, which I think is the important thing. I think we'll probably talk about both of our stories in the course of the day, no doubt about it. But I really am glad that you are here and that you are able to to talk with us today and and and talk about things. So let's start the way I love to start with people. Let's start at the beginning. Tell me kind of about the early Bob growing up and so on. Let's start with that. Bob Ellis 06:17 Well, I I grew up in let's say grew up until I was four years old. I lived. I was born in Pensacola, Florida. Lived in the Panhandle. Mother and father got divorced, and we moved to Norfolk, Virginia. And it was just my my mother and I until I was 14 years old. And I found out about my dad and found some letters from him and insisted to go see him. And so, between 14 and 15, I made a couple of unauthorized attempts to to make my way to Florida. On the third attempt, I made it, and it was quite a surprise for my father. Ended up living with him and being my closest friend up until I had he had grandkids, we had kids, and so I lived and grew up in the Destin, Fort Worth, Fort Walton area. Went to work, and this is where the story begins. I went to work at Eglin Air Force Base as a as a janitor in a gas station for the Army Air Force Exchange Service, so that I could continue to play high school football and practice, was a great job. It was an opportunity to work with the military, be around the military, and I took great pride in that feeling that that that that while I I wanted to go into the air force and I wanted to fly jets, that opportunity just never presented itself because the Vietnam War was going on and they were banking pilots instead of taking pilots. Anyway, I I ended up staying with the Army Air Force Exchange Service for 34 years. I moved all over the world. I've seen the every AOR and every combat scenario since the Vietnam War. Not in the Vietnam War, but I was in the refugee program, helping with the resettlement back in 1972, 1973. Spent the rest of my career going wherever they sent me, and and and that was from Tokyo, Japan, to to Tuli, Greenland, to California, and ultimately to to Texas. Michael Hingson 08:30 I remember during the Vietnam War, someone called me one day. I was a student at UC Irvine, and there was a refugee camp fairly close to the university, and someone said, and someone said, "There's a blind young man at the sent at the refugee center, and we should go see him. And so we we bought a transistor radio for him and went out to visit with him and spent some time with him, and I never got to see him after that. But I hope I hope he did well. He he seemed like he was doing okay, but he was a little bit lost, needless to say, because it's a whole bunch of people. There are no a lot of people who knew much about blindness and blind people, but I would presume he did reasonably okay. I hope so, but that was the only time I specifically had an involvement with him or anyone at the refugee camps. Later, when I met my wife Karen, she lived, I think, a door down, and she and her parents lived a door down from a Vietnamese couple, and he was a tailor and actually made her wedding dress, which was kind of cool, and so we got to spend a fair amount of time with the Voo's, which was was good, but what's. Interesting for me now, with with now being well so many years later. In November, I will be going to do a speech in Hanoi, so I'm really looking forward to to going over there and and experiencing it. At least it'll be a little bit cooler then than it probably is now. So we'll see, but it'll be it'll be pretty enjoyable to go and again see a different a different part of the world, and I I think we'll be fine. At least that's that's that's the plan. Bob Ellis 10:34 That that that that tour that I had at Eglin Air Force Base with the refugees, will come back to to to 911 2001 and the experiences that I had at that refugee camp replicated in the Pentagon park and lot there in 911. So we'll get to that. I'll explain it further. Michael Hingson 10:56 Yeah, I'm sure it was a a great a great lesson. Where did you do college, or did you Bob Ellis 11:03 went to went to Duke University and the University and the University of Maryland? Michael Hingson 11:10 Okay. Well, at Bob Ellis 11:12 least much of it was correspondence as well, only because I was deployed for for so many years back to back, 17 moves in 34 years. Michael Hingson 11:22 Wow, Duke University. At least you didn't go to one of those other schools in North Carolina. Boy, talk about talk about rivalries and basketball. What a what a group down there. Bob Ellis 11:35 Oh, I know, I know. Michael Hingson 11:38 I once spoke in Kentucky, and the Wildcats were in the NCAA championship that year, and I was asked to speak at an event on the night of the championship. But I was told I had to end by 630. I could not go one second past 630 because the gym I was speaking in was going to clear out. Well, I ended in time so that at 630, what they said was absolutely true. That gym cleared out. Everybody went home to watch the game. Bob Ellis 12:09 That's that's sports. Michael Hingson 12:11 Not sports. It is, but it's okay. I I learned a lot down there and got to meet a number of people, and so it was it was a lot of fun to to do it, and then years later I was in North Carolina when NC State and UNC were playing to see who was going to go into the championship. So again, pretty interesting world, and and sports ruled everything then, so it's okay. It Bob Ellis 12:43 hasn't it hasn't changed at all because my my my daughter I got her graduate studies done at NC State, and it hasn't changed a bit. It's just I'll bet it's just crazy as it's when was 20 3040 years ago, Michael Hingson 12:58 and it shall ever be, won't it? Bob Ellis 13:01 Yeah, yeah. Her undergraduate degree was at University of Texas. This was my son's, and she went on to NC State, and and he went on to medical school in in Houston. Michael Hingson 13:16 Okay. Well, UC Irvine, when I was there, had the championship water polo team, but that's what we had. But they started basketball while I was there, although it wasn't anything huge. But a couple of years ago, they made it to the Sweet 16, and that was kind of fun for UC Irvine. One of these days, it'll go all the way. Bob Ellis 13:40 Yep. Michael Hingson 13:41 Well, anyway, so you you went to college, and and what did you major in? Bob Ellis 13:45 Political science. Michael Hingson 13:47 Okay, political science Bob Ellis 13:48 and business management. With a with my two aspirations, I wanted to. I really wanted to major in in aviation science, but that that wasn't offered. So that's political science and business science, business law. Michael Hingson 14:06 But you were working for the Army Air Force Exchange Service. What is that exactly? Bob Ellis 14:11 Yeah, it's a it's it's it's a non-appropriated funded Service provided all goods. I think of it as the the Walmart or the Target of of the civilian sector, except the Army Air Force Exchange Service has stored everything from stores, every business that you can think of therein, from stores to convenience stores to gas stations to beauty shops and barber shops to dining facilities, franchise Burger Kings, anything that a soldier and his family needs at the base or overseas or in the combat arena, where we were there with it, providing it. It's been a great career. Michael Hingson 14:59 Did you? Do you have any involvement with, especially here in the U.S. the the Randolph Sheppard programs, the blind vending stand operations at any of the facilities? Bob Ellis 15:09 Yep, sure did many many times. We're still working with it. There's there's some issues present right now under the Randolph Shepherd that they're looking at. I don't know what what's going to change, but yes, sir, we were very, very close to that. Michael Hingson 15:24 Yeah, I know there. The current government's looking at it; they want to scale a lot of it back, which would, I think, not be a good thing. I think there's a lot of reasons to keep it, but we'll see. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But I, the closest I ever came to dealing with anything from AAES was I was invited to speak once at an organizational meeting of the National Property Managers Association in the military. Are you familiar with that? Bob Ellis 15:56 I am. Yes. Michael Hingson 15:57 And when I was asked to come, the Speakers Bureau didn't do a good research job because they told me, "Oh, it's the people who rent apartments and all that. When I got down to the to the event, I will say that the National Property Managers Association certainly serves a nice breakfast. But anyway, the conversation just didn't seem like what I what I was expecting. So I asked somebody, and they told me that the organization was the organization that had complete jurisdiction over anything physical that the government owned, and Bob Ellis 16:30 absolutely Michael Hingson 16:31 that that changed my grass. Sorry, Bob Ellis 16:34 right down to the grass, right down to the grass and the concrete. Michael Hingson 16:37 There you go. Well, it also changed my speech in 10 minutes, but it was fun. They invited me back the next year, so that was good. But it's it's fun when you're you're planning to do a particular speech, and suddenly it turns out it's got to change. It's good to have the flexibility to do that. But I'm I'm glad I had the opportunity to do it, and hopefully we'll have opportunities to do it again, but you have served a lot of different kinds of of services within AAES, and and I assume that's all worked out pretty well. Bob Ellis 17:14 That that worked out very well. Yep, I had I started at the bottom and and climbed as close to the top as I possibly could, but Michael Hingson 17:23 you eventually got the the highest medal that was available for civilians when you retired or after you retired. Bob Ellis 17:31 No, the highest award that I ever received was from my man over the Pentagon 911 support program, which was a nice medoris civilian award. Michael Hingson 17:46 Okay, where is your favorite place to live in the world? Or is that really easy to say? I mean, you've been all over the place and seen a lot of different kinds of places. Don't know how much you got to two of them, but anyway, Bob Ellis 18:00 it wasn't the two places that I that I went overseas, which was Japan and Greenland. Those were the longest tours of my life. Beautiful country in Japan, and and great facilities and support in tuning Greenland. But I would I would guess throughout the United States, I had a great assignment at the Army War College, and I had a great assignment at Travis Air Force Base here in Michael Hingson 18:26 California. Yeah, Bob Ellis 18:28 yeah. Michael Hingson 18:30 I've spoken. Bob Ellis 18:30 My son was born in Japan. He's dual citizen as a result on the Air Force Base, and my daughter was born in California. So it was a great time, mainly because the kids were younger and and and and we were in great climate areas. Michael Hingson 18:48 When people ask me what my favorite place in the United States is, I say everywhere. I I just enjoy meeting people wherever I go in the U.S. It's so many different cultures and customs and ways of doing things. It is so fun to to see all the different places and see how they are. People ask what I like, where I like outside the U.S. And so far, it's been New Zealand. I would say is probably the best, but Japan has to be up there too. I've really enjoyed being in Japan. I've been there a couple times, and I thoroughly enjoyed Bob Ellis 19:23 it. I, I had, I think the most the the greatest thing about the assignments was some of the people I I got to to meet in in my in my tours. One of them would be the Crown Prince of of Thailand, who who is now the king of Thailand, King Rama, got to meet him when he was a pilot, and supported him when when I was at Yokota Air Base, and multiple other celebrities. I I had the opportunity as a kid to attend the funeral. For Douglas MacArthur, and and his his memorial was right across the street in North Virginia from where my mother worked. And 20 years later, I had the opportunity to to meet mrs. Mcarthur, Jean MacArthur, at Gracie Mansion in New York, and I I I wrote protocol. I when it came time for her to to meet me and meet meet her, I got down on one knee and I held her hand and I said, "I want to tell you a little story, ma'am. And she said, "Well, certainly, absolutely. And I told her the story how when the general had died in in 1964, I was required by my my mother to go to the funeral, and the most fascinating person I'd ever seen in my life was herself, and she just got she just turned red. Well, long story short, I was at an army command at Fort Hamilton. The next day, the the group the the installation commander called me over to his office, very angry, but he wanted me to know that I was going to be the first civilian aide for the old lady, which was mrs. Mcarthur, and he had to take one of his lieutenants off. And I got to know the family and and the Mcarthurs as a result of that. So lots of opportunities, just absolutely amazing. 911, and we'll get to it. I got to meet President Bush momentarily, but I I got to meet him and have a short conversation. Michael Hingson 21:32 I got to meet him in 2005. We went to the Oval Office, and we were supposed to have a two minute photo op, but he kept wanting to interact. We ended up talking for about 15 minutes. He kept the Italian ambassador or prime minister waiting, but it was a was a great conversation. I very much enjoyed having the opportunity to meet with him. Bob Ellis 21:53 Yeah, he was remarkable. Michael Hingson 21:54 Yeah, in in so many ways. If Speaker 1 22:00 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson 22:33 So that's that's pretty cool. So as you were going around to all these different places, what would you say you were learning. Bob Ellis 22:41 I was learning business. I was learning relationships. I was learning marketing. Pretty much anything that you wanted to do as a general manager or a vice president, the exchanges let you do it. You know, until you got too far gone, and they they reel you back in. But I love being able to run multiple businesses on the installation, and and be accountable for them, and run them at a profit, and and at the end of the day, do great things for military families. Michael Hingson 23:16 Wow! So you um, you you've you've had a lot of challenges and and had to learn a lot of different things. Needless to say, but I would would think that you've you've been able to to keep a lot of that and use it. And you know we've referred to September 11 th, and so let's let's get to around that time. The first thing I would ask, and people have asked me, but you're in a better position in theory than I. Did you have any inkling that something like September 11th was going to happen? Bob Ellis 23:53 Well, actually, September 11th was was happening. I left for work about 4:30 in the morning. I lived out in the suburbs in Centerville, Virginia, and it was one of those days that you just wished you didn't have to go to work. It was the as the sun was coming up, it had a little cold breeze to it. The skies were blue. It was just one of those days that you just wanted to sit out in the yard and and relax or go bicycling, whatever. But I did my duty and I drove in to the Washington D.C. area and reported to my office on time, which was right around 5o'clock. My staff showed up around six and some at seven, and my secretary came in, and I don't know exactly what time it was, but it was shortly after, right around 9o'clock in Eastern Time, when the first airplane had hit the the trade center. Michael Hingson 24:49 Yeah, Bob Ellis 24:49 846-940-6846, Yes, right, 846. Yeah, and and so I I went in to look at the. The the television monitor standing there it was just her and I at the time and and and I said that's not an accident and she says how do you know that I said look at the skies that was an airliner they were talking about it was a little small private aviation well I'm a pilot I've been a pilot for 40 years 41 years I knew exactly, you know, that that where it was, what it was doing, and that wasn't a it wasn't an accident. And and my inkling was is that I was in a in rented space in Arlington, Virginia, because we had been moved out because the wedge that got attacked was the one that was still under construction. My office had not been completed there, and and I had a meeting in that wedge at 9o'clock that morning. And my secretary said to me, "You know, Bob, the Pentagon is next. And I paused for a minute and I looked at her and I said, "How in the world could you even imagine that, you know that that that's a fortress? Who would be crazy enough to attack the Pentagon? And she says, I I just I don't want you to go over, you know, just just just do it by phone, which I I probably could have done. And I said, No, I'm I'm going to go over there. If they're going if they're going to attack the Pentagon, I'm going to go down with it, and that was kind of my philosophy. So, in the back of my mind, seeing that airplane hit the Trade Center and her telling me that certainly made me wonder if it wasn't a possibility. Michael Hingson 26:33 So, you didn't. You don't think that anyone, and I've never heard of any such, but that anyone had any advance notice? There wasn't chatter. There wasn't anything that made people suspect what might be getting ready to happen. Bob Ellis 26:47 No, I I I think that is the the worst our country has ever been off guard. It reminds me of you know the the attack on Hawaii and that you know in in Pearl Harbor. We were completely unprepared, and I thought we were completely unprepared on 911. And in fact, after the attack, I knew we were unprepared when I saw the two jets fly over with no armament on the wings. So no, I don't think anybody had any idea. Michael Hingson 27:18 Well, the other side of it, and I've talked about this in in some talks I've given. I talk a lot about trust and teamwork, and like it or not, one of the things that I observe is you had 19 terrorists who functioned well enough as a team that they didn't talk about it. They didn't let anything come out. So no matter how much armament or whatever we might have had, I'm not sure whether we could have predicted that on September 11th, what occurred was going to happen. Bob Ellis 27:49 You know, all the indicators were there. You know, those those 19 trained at private airports, and they and during their training, it was it was reported multiple times that all they were interested in was taking off, not landing. I mean, first clue, you know. Okay. Why would you just be interested? He's taking off an airplane, and and I always found that very curious, and I'd heard it several times. That should have set alarm bells off. Should have. It didn't. Apparently, it did. Michael Hingson 28:20 Good point, and you know the the thing is though that, as as you pointed out, who would have thought that anybody would attack the Pentagon, the fortress that it was? Who Bob Ellis 28:33 yeah, Michael Hingson 28:33 who would have thought? So again, you can only go by what you got, and so nobody, I think, would have ever imagined that. Well, of course, the first plane hit the World Trade Center, and at first, people didn't really know what happened because there were really not very many people who who saw it. In fact, we only have the few photos that were taken by the French photographers who were there for something else, but then a little after nine, the second plane hit, and that changed the dynamic and changed the perspective a lot. Although a bunch of people who started seeing it on TV thought it was just a movie, and it wasn't true, but the second plane hitting changed the attitudes. I think for most people, and that's when people knew something was going on. Bob Ellis 29:24 Yeah, I didn't know anything about the second trade center. I had left my office in Crystal City, and I had headed to the Pentagon. And the meeting, the meeting that I had was with the Army Personnel Chief and several other folks. And as it turned out, that is exactly the window that the airplane flew into. That was ground zero for the for the for the target for the airplane going in just above the first floor for the Pentagon. So I didn't know anything. I was I was trapped at that point. I was trapped. Couldn't go um. Wouldn't go um. Didn't want to go um. And I had lived in New York City for five years, and I was my biggest. I was always impressed by the New York City Fire Department. I mean, they're they're just walking heroes if you've ever seen them. I mean, they were like they were like giants when you got next to them, and that they would they were just superhumans. And I always wondered upon the top floors how in the world you would get a fire put out at the top of the World Trade Center, and and I did not know until two days later when I made it home. That was my first question to my family: How did they get the the fire out at the top of the World Trade Center? And I and and it was repeated to me centers, and I said, What are you talking about? Centers in my family, and they said, "Bob, the World Trade Centers are gone. I said, "I don't understand. How could they be gone? And that was that. That was you know two days later that I found out about that. It was quite a shock to me to learn what it actually while I was on on the Pentagon mission. Michael Hingson 30:58 Well, when the first plane hit. Well, in the second plane, the firefighters were going up the stairs carrying all their equipment, and I had had had known about that and asked people, "Well, why are you or would you be carrying equipment? Because I met I I didn't meet the FDNY people ahead of the World Trade Center attacks, but I did meet with other people to learn about emergency preparedness and so on because I felt as the leader of an office, it was my job to know because I wasn't going to be able to read signs, and I love information, so I was trying to learn all I could, and they told me that where would if you if you had equipment stored in the in the towers, then people would go to it. Firefighters would go to it and get the the equipment. What floor do you put it on? Because no matter what floor you put it on, what if the fire broke out one floor below? You know, you can't get to the equipment. So the only way they could get up the stairs to fight the fires was to carry all of the equipment with them, yep, yep. Not enough is said about those guys in history. No, and I met a number of them coming up the stairs as we were going down, and they wanted to escort me down, and I didn't want them to do that because I knew they were a team, and I I pushed back pretty hard and said, no, you guys go up and we'll go down unless we can help you fight the fires, and they said no. The reason they eventually let me go down without any assistance was I had a friend with me who could see, and I said, "Look, David can see. Don't worry about us. And David and they turned to David and they said, "You're with him. And David said, "Yeah, leave him alone. He's fine. So we went on down, and they went up. I don't know whether the people we interacted with made it down or perished up above. It was about 10 after 10 after nine or so when we got to the 30th floor where we met them. So it was another hour and almost 20 minutes before the tower collapsed, but I don't know where the firefighters were, or how many people from the groups that we interacted with perished, or if they all made it out. I don't know, but Bob Ellis 33:12 yep, I I memorized all those numbers. You know, 189 between the airplane and the Pentagon, 200 injured, but 189. 189 total were 64 on the airplane, 125 in the Pentagon, and I'll never forget those numbers. Yeah, I'll never forget the time. I looked at my watch at 9:17, and and I have to tell you that on 9/11, I always sit very quietly until I get past 917, not 937. I'm sorry, 937. Michael Hingson 33:48 So Bob Ellis 33:48 in the morning. Michael Hingson 33:49 So, how close were you to where the plane came into the Pentagon? Bob Ellis 33:56 About 300 yards. When when it was clear that the meeting wasn't going to happen because the air traffic control system had been shut down. They released us to go back to our our offices, and I was going out the front door. I left about 930. It was supposed to start at nine 930. The generals said we'll just reconvene, and and I agreed. And from his office on on the south portico, I was walking out the front door. Literally, I heard the engines spool up. I had been in the AOR in rail combat munitions, and and I've heard cruise missiles, and and I could hear this one spinning up, and I thought it was a cruise missile, and so when it hit when it hit the building, it was just it was just a horrendous sound. But my first impression was to run to it to see what happened, what what what caused that, and there was nothing there. It was just four or five cars burning and smoke billowing out of the building. And and the the rest turned into a you know a rescue and a a recovery. Michael Hingson 35:08 AOR is what Bob Ellis 35:10 the area of responsibility. Michael Hingson 35:13 Okay, area of responsibility. Okay, Bob Ellis 35:16 yeah, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, wherever we are, it's it's N A O R, and that's your A O R. That's state. That's where you are. So that that's where I encountered first first and only live person coming out of the building, and which was a which was a really big surprise. But I knew that there was something that I I had to do, and and one of the things was to, if he needed assistance, getting him assistance. And there were several people. He was he was he was burned third degree burns over his whole body. He lived. I said one prayer was for him. And as it turned out, he became a a great ambassador. Turned out to be a great friend, and is actually back in the Pentagon to this day, just steps away from his old office as a civilian, went went back on a presidential appointment. Michael Hingson 36:09 So, you mentioned the general a while ago. Was did he survive? Bob Ellis 36:15 No, he was the he was the highest ranking person that we lost in in the entire encounter, and it was the entire office was just instantly vaporized. So he did not survive. Michael Hingson 36:33 Well, so you heard the engines revving up, and you went after you heard the explosion and so on. You went over to see what was going on, and then what did you do? Because it certainly had to be a major surprise and a shock by any standard. Bob Ellis 36:49 Yeah, I went that side of the building, saw the hole in the building, kind of convinced myself it was a cruise missile, but I never heard such a loud engine noise. As it turned out, it was it was two big engines off of a 757 200, and so I immediately tried to figure out you know what can I do? What should I do? Should I even be here? And that's when I saw the colonel coming out of the building, and I was able to walk with him and four others over to the the road, the Washington Boulevard that goes around the Pentagon, and and I sat down on the telephone pole, a light pole that the airplane hit going in. Now I'm a pilot, and and I have to tell you to take an airplane going at Mach point eight seven, and hit a target, hit the building, and not hitting the ground was just absolutely amazing to me. So as they got the colonel into an SUV and and and got him out of the the scene, I sat there. Just it was almost like a movie I was watching. The triage was being set up. The Pentagon was burning. The emergency services units were starting to show up, and we had very intermittent phone capability. And I had I had a a friend, my my the commander that I worked for in Dallas at the time. This secretary's husband was a bodyguard for Secretary Rumsfeld, and and Secretary Rumsfeld was actually carrying litter patients, carrying people out of the debris area and out of the offices. He was actually helping people, and he he realized that something needed to be done. So he gave Jerry a note, a piece of paper. We called them snowflakes, but it was a tablet, and he had listed what needed to be done and what needed to be done now. And Jerry found me sitting over there and gave me that that piece of paper, and it had everything listed on it. He wanted a a tactical field operation in place. He wanted it now, not yesterday. He wanted something in the interim, and it was to provide emergency relief supplies. So I I sat down on that telephone pole and I called our our local dist not local our largest distribution center in the world was down in Newport News, and I got the director on the phone and I said, I have an official order from you coming from the Secretary of Defense, and and don't override, don't just just follow my instructions until we can get to the commander at AFIS headquarters, and so I gave him the list. I just gave him the full list of things that we needed to get rolling, and I called another gentleman that was just across the river, the American Logistics Association, which owned all of the brokers and manufacturers, and I gave him a list of stuff that we needed now, like Gatorade boots. the The surface was over 2000 degrees, and the emergency service boots were melting almost upon contact. So I had I had 1000s, hundreds of 1000s of dollars of equipment. And supplies coming in, and we set up the USO tent, put everything in the USO tent. We raided all the stores in the in the Washington D.C. area. I was able to contact the region manager, and I told him, you know, what we needed to take it off the shelf, put it in the back seat of the cars, don't account for it, and get it to me. And that's what we did the entire first night was setting up the USO trailer, and the next morning I had two tactical field tractor trailers coming up the ramp just as the sun was coming up, and they were loaded with supplies, and that's what stayed in place for the next two months. Over $2 million worth of merchandise, emergency recovery type merchandise, everything from linens to the towels to eye wash, and and and we had to actually have some special boots made out of leather for the dogs because the dogs' feet were so it was it was quite an operation. We ended up well running within within 24 hours of the attack, Michael Hingson 41:04 why is it that you are able to stay pretty focused through all of this? Bob Ellis 41:08 I you know I you know I I've often asked that question. I wanted to go home. Alls I could think of is my kids, my wife. What what are they doing? What are they thinking? They're watching this on the news, and I had I had drifted over to which my car was very close, and it was taped off. The parking lot was taped off. It was a crime scene. There was no going anywhere. There was no transportation. If I wanted to walk 40 miles, I guess I could have, but because I couldn't go anywhere, I had to do something there on the scene, so that's that's that's what I did, and and it wasn't until the next day when the phone started working again, our two star in Dallas was able to get through to me on on my BlackBerry, and he wanted to know what the situation was, and and and I told him, and and he said, what what are we going to do? And I explained to him what we had done already, and he says, "How did you do all of that? I said, "I picked up the phone and I told him I was working for Secretary Rumsfeld, and this is the order. And and he says, "How are we going to pay for all of this? I said, "Sir, this is our finest hour. We're not. We're going to donate. These are all donating goods, and and it really was an interesting. I I just I just don't know. I was compelled. He he he ordered me on that second day to go home, and and I said I had no way to go home. And he said go to the motor pool. I'm going to call the motor pool. He had been the commander of the Air Force One Squadron, so he had a lot of connections in Washington, and he he got me a car, and I went home long enough to change clothes and and and to come back out. So it was it was just out of adrenaline, I think. Somebody had to do something, and and everything that I've told you here today is not written anywhere in history. I own every bit of what happened in in in that story, other than some of the people that were working there. Michael Hingson 43:07 What phone did you use that first day? You said you're you're it was the second day or the next day that you're phoned. So how were you able to communicate? Bob Ellis 43:17 We had Blackberries, and and until the networks got completely overrun, we were able to use it. And and so by the second third day, we we had pretty consistent communication, because the the the commander called me back that same morning, and and he said, you know, he said, how come you haven't been home? And I explained to him, and he says, "Will you do me one favor? And I said, "I would. He said, "Will you go back into the building? Said, "Sir, the building's on fire. He says, "Well, well, you get in the front, and I'm looking at it. He was looking at it on television, and the military clothing store was in the very front, within 100 feet, probably of that door that I went out of. And he says, "Would you see if our people survive, and if the store itself survived? It was sitting near the the area. I went in the store. I went into the building, into the burning building, and was able to look in the door, and I could see that the the room was full of smoke, and the door was locked. So I told him I would assume that our people made it out, alive and okay. And they say that was a, and they did, and they absolutely did. And in fact, everybody that that that that had any kind of supervisory capability around the Beltway, they volunteered to come over and work for me and and operating that facility for 2024 hours a day, seven days a week. Wow! So and not and not to shorten the the question, I wasn't there, but because of what I was doing in the in the Pentagon, my old homestead was at Fort Hamilton. Fort Hamilton picked up the same thing and went over to the Trade Center area, and they gave them a place to put a mobile. Food truck, and they brought supplies in and pretty much supported the firefighters and the and the and the police there. So so we had quite an operation going for a long time. Michael Hingson 45:11 Yeah, and and needed to, but it was interesting and commendable that in both places people were able to focus, and were able to carry out missions. I know at the World Trade Center when the two towers collapsed. Of course, it was it was unexpected, but we know now, of course, why they collapsed. It wasn't that the planes hit; it's that they were they were full of what 36,000 pounds of jet fuel each, and that exploding jet fuel is what damaged the infrastructure of the buildings to cause them to be able to collapse. But as well as at the Pentagon, but very quickly people were able to start to move and deal with issues and put procedures in place that were able to, I'm sure, keep more people from perishing and keep kept more people being able to focus throughout the whole the whole sequence of events. It it certainly was very scary, but it is something that that people like you were able to do. I know for me, the reason I was able to focus was because I had learned what to do in an emergency at the World Trade Center. I spent time with people and I learned how the whole building was structured, so I knew when the building tipped, why it tipped, and and things like that. You Bob Ellis 46:40 felt it. You you felt it. Michael Hingson 46:43 Oh yeah. Oh my god. We moved probably at least 20 feet, and then it came back, and oh my Speaker 2 46:48 god, it Michael Hingson 46:48 got vertical again. It got vertical again, and then a few seconds later, it dropped about six feet because the expansion joints went back to their normal configuration. But Bob Ellis 46:59 we uh we we knew from 937 till about 5o'clock that evening there would be no more survivors. It was over, and and and the dogs were getting depressed because they were they were they were not cadaver dogs. They were recovery dogs, and they were used to fight. And we we actually had ceremonies for the dogs every day, where we sewed flags onto their collars, and they had special water and special food. So they played a big, big role in morale, mine especially. Michael Hingson 47:33 And at the same time, I know people had to do drills to keep the dogs focused because they weren't able to find people, as you said, so they had to do things to give them something to find to keep them happy, which was was so important. Bob Ellis 47:50 Yeah, that we had two two tractor trailers lined up. It was just just two 300 feet from where you went into the damaged area of the Pentagon, and those dogs and their handlers would get up underneath those trailers and sleep, and they would play with the dogs. We actually had some carpets brought out, tarps brought out, and that's kind of where that was kind of their headquarters during 911. We had to make it up as we went along, and and the other interesting part of this story is in 1972 at the at the refugee camp, I was sleeping in the back of a van because there was just no way to go home. It was too it was too far to drive home to turn around and come back at 8o'clock the next morning, and I heard somebody knocking at the door, and and and I and I opened up the door, and it was a military colonel in uniform, and there was a civilian standing there with him. And he says, "Are you part of this operation? And I said, "Yes, sir, I am. He said, "Who are you with? And I said, "The Army Air Force Exchange Service. And and he says, "You're not provided any other facilities. This, I said, that was my choice. And as it turned out, I was speaking to Secretary Rumsfeld during his first administration as Secretary of Defense, and it was interesting that when he found out that what I did in in that program, I won the Indo Indo China Award for service, and then of course you you move ahead to to 2001, and we we knew each other. I had briefed him several times, and we we knew each other in the Pentagon. And that day, he knew that I would know what to do for the support role, and that's why he sent the letter up. And as it turned out, when he retired and and left the Pentagon, he was on a book tour, and and the the general secretary and myself got an invite to come to the book tour with him and and have lunch with him. And he handed me a book and he said, "I want you to have this, but I don't want you to open it up until you, Bob. I don't want you to open it up till you get home. I don't want you to give it to your wife. And and it was like this. Sure, I'm not not a problem, and so I got I got home. You know, this is this is 10 years later, and handed the book to her, and I said, "Open it up. I'm not wasn't allowed, and there's a nice thank you page on the front from Secretary Rums for allowing him to use me on 9/11, and you just you just that's the best reward that I could have ever ever expected. A guy that I just idolized to do that. Michael Hingson 50:26 When you got home, so you weren't able to talk to your wife before you got home, or did you ever get communication so you could call her? Bob Ellis 50:33 No, I didn't. I when I finally got the phone back up and running and got in the car. I had lost the battery, so I said, "I'm gonna be home in in an hour. I'll just be there. But General Wax called up, and she answered the phone. She went. She went sometime during that day and pulled the kids out of the private school, brought them home. She could see my car. It was a yellow SUV, and she could see it in the South parking lot in the news choppers going around. She said that was my car where my spot was, and General Wax got her on the phone and she and and she answered the phone and he said this is C J Wax and she thought that was the call. She thought that was it, and she alls I could do was drop to my knees and and and C J said and it's it's okay. I've ordered him to come home. He's all right. He's running. He's running a a program for us for for recovery. And if he's not there, he should be there shortly. And then by the time I got there, I got to the front step. I'm asking the question about the World Trade Center, how they got the fire out, and I was ordered that I could not go in the house because I smelled like smoke. So, so two minutes before that, I was the most important person in the world, and and then all of a sudden, I was I was back to Bob, and I wasn't going to wear that that suit in the house to to smoke it. So anyway, that's that's how she found out. He he called her up. I asked him. I think I asked him if he would get in touch with her at our last conversation, and he did. Michael Hingson 52:06 Soon after both towers collapsed, like a minute or so later, I called and got through to my wife Karen. I had talked with her before we left our office, and then when we got downstairs, I couldn't get through to her because the circuits were busy, and it was obvious that everyone we learned later was saying goodbye to loved ones, and so the circuits were busy. So after both towers collapsed, I was able to get through to her, and as I tell people, there were tears on both sides of the phone at the when that conversation started, but she was the first one who told us how two aircraft had been crashed into the World Trade Center towers, one to the Pentagon, and at that time, the fourth one was apparently still missing over Pennsylvania, and of course, then it crashed at Shanksville. Bob Ellis 52:52 I love it. Michael Hingson 52:54 Yeah, but we, you know, we talked, so she knew I was okay. Then a friend of ours, Tom Painter, who had been a friend of Karen's at high school out in California, but Tom, over the years, had ended up moving to New Jersey. He came down to stay with her, not knowing until he arrived whether I was in the office that day or out with a customer or what was going on. And of course, then she told him, and so he drove her to the train station to pick me up. When, when I got back out to Westfield, we went home. And you talk about with with dogs. We got in the house, and I took Roselle's harness off because I was going to take her out, and she would have none of it. She ran off, grabbed her favorite tug bone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linny, and I talked to the veterinarians at Guide Dogs for the Blind in San Rafael the next day, and they said, "Did anything threaten her? And I said, "No, not directly. And they said, "That's why she ran off because it was over. Nothing threatened her. Bob Ellis 53:58 Comfortable. Michael Hingson 53:59 She, they don't. Dogs don't do what if like we do, and so she was comfortable. She was happy. She wanted to play, and then then she did go out. But by the same token, the the whole point was that she was able to deal with with all of it and was able to to focus. Then we got her outside and and came back in, and she ate and and all that. But the the the thing is that she focused all day, and and she did a a wonderful job. And the reason that she focused and did so well was mainly because I worked at keeping her focus by telling her every chance I got. You're a good girl. What a good dog! Good dog. You're doing a great job. Keep going. I did that all the way down the stairs in the World Trade Center, and I was very deliberate about that because I knew she had to sense the fear and what was going on, and I wanted her to know that I was okay and I was going to be there for. Her, which is of course what teamwork and support is all about. You understand that very well. You you proved it in so many ways. I kept working with Roselle and kept her focused, and you know it all it all really went well. I still think one of the most relevant things for me in the World Trade Center. I went down the stairs with a guy named David Frank. David was from our corporate office in California, and David and I were going to be conducting sales seminars that day, teaching some resellers how to sell our products. And we got down to about the 50th floor, so David was there to talk about the the pricing and so on. I was going to do the majority of the presentation because I was going to be their technical contact, anyway, and we got to about the 50th floor, going down, and suddenly David said, "Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And as I tell people, since I got a teaching credential, I had learned all about the secrets of how to yell at students. So I just said, "Stop it, David. If Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he then immediately said that I brought him out of his spunk, and he told me that later as well. But what he told me was that he wanted to walk a floor below me on the stairs and shout up to me everything that he was seeing. He had to take his mind off of what was going on, and so he asked if I cared, and I said, "No, go ahead. That's what you need to do. That's fine. So I got like down to the 48th floor, and he yelled, "47th floor, Mike. All's clear here. Going on down. So we went down several floors that way. Eventually, I got to 45, and he was 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is not stopping. And the reason I mention it is because I think what David did is one of the unsung things that is so important from September 11th. He kept shouting up to me everything that he saw, but the reality is, anyone in the sound of his voice heard that there was someone who was okay going down the stairs, and he had to keep panic out of people's senses for so many individuals, because they just heard him, Mike, 43rd floor, all's good here. Going on down the stairs, all the way down the stairs. He had to have been able to keep so many people focused because he was able to keep his mind off of what was going on by shouting to me, and I think that that's so important, and so I'm. I always tell that story. I've been telling it for many years now because I want people to know what he did to keep so many people focused going down the stairs, and he had to have done that. Bob Ellis 57:31 Well, you know, I have. That's that's the first I've heard that, and and and and I read everything that I followed your story very closely, as well as the colonel who I was so close to, but there there are a couple of stories that are just never mentioned, not talked about, and one of them where we had to do every day. There was an update that the military gave the families an update as to what is happening, what was found, what was recovered, what to expect, and they would bring the kids in to listen to these brutal military briefings. I mean, just you know, these were these were soldiers, these were these were combat folks, and this is the way they briefed. And the therapy dogs were brought in, and there wasn't but about a dozen of them, and I will never forget not only the kids on the floor with the arms around those dogs, but some of the adults were as well. And I thought, what what a moment! That was the most touching moment of my entire life witnessing that. I mean, I could have done without it, but it was it was a very special moment. And then the the other thing that the world doesn't know about is on the second day, I got a I got a phone call from Secretary Rumsfeld's office that the VA was completely out of coffin flags. We had nothing in inventory to to cover the remains or the caskets for burial, and what could I do? And and right right from the Pentagon parking lot, I I called one of the buyers that bought American flags in Dallas, and then I asked her who do you get flags from, and she says it's American Flag Company. I'll give them credit for that, and and I said you need you need to get their entire inventory. We need to get it flown in, whatever expenses cover it, and get them here. The Pentagon doesn't have them, and New York doesn't have them. And those flags came in. They were they were there about that midnight that that that night. Now boxed up, thrown in the bag box, whatever tape they were bound, but everybody that came out later, you know, the recoveries as we got deeper into the debris, that had a had a flag that that came that came from us in the as well as at the Pentagon, and they put two very big special flags in there. I mean, like you see flying over a car dealer. And they hung that on the side of the Pentagon. And if you look at any of the any of the news willers of that time, it was on day two that flag was hanging that that came in with the rest of the other flags. So it was it was quite impressive. You never know what the next moment was going to bring you on you know from my side and and and can I meet the challenge? That was what I constantly worry about. How could I let any of this down? And I've got to do something. And and we were making it up as we went along. Michael Hingson 1:00:33 Yeah, that's all you could do. And so when I go back to Bob Ellis 1:00:37 to to this to this day, you know, we go back. They've got 184 markers. I don't know how many people attend it, but it's it's right in that zone, right outside the building, in that grassy area where they they they've made that memorial. And 184 people, to include I think two infants, are are memorialized there forever, which is very touching. It was a that was a hard place to go back to. Still was New York City when I went to it because I'd never I had never been 20 years 20 years yet 18 years before I ever went to to New York City to see the recovery there. I've never I've not been to the to the to the Pennsylvania field. I plan to go. I want to go. Just hadn't been convenient to get there, but but if I do that, I will have seen all all the sites. Michael Hingson 1:01:26 Yeah, I haven't been to Pennsylvania either. In 2017, I did make it to the World Trade Center Museum. In well, so we moved out of Westfield, and I moved back to California in late January, beginning of February of 2002, to work for Guide Dogs for the Blind and and speak from there. And traveled around and speak. Karen was there for a couple more months selling our home, and then she came out. But in May of 2002, Roselle was going to be honored by Hart's Mountain, the pet food and pet supply company. So, so we went back to New York, and while we were there, I met one of the police officers with with one of the service with one of the rescue dogs that that had been around the World Trade Center, and he arranged for us to get in a vehicle and drive down into the pit that was where the World Trade Center was, and they had built an artificial, well, a temporary road, and they were bringing things up, but we got to go down to what would have been the seventh sublevel, the bottom of the tower, and it was just a for me just imagining it standing in that dirt area in a hole seven stories deep and remembering what what it was like, and then in 2017 I went to the World Trade Center Museum and got to spend a little bit of time there, and of course everything had been rebuilt. The reflecting pool was there, and so on. But it was nothing like what I remembered from having been in the World Trade Center, and I walked around with someone who was able to be aware and describe what was where we were and what was above us, or what part of the building we were in as we walked through the complex. But of course, it was totally different. So it was it was such a strange feeling to experience all of that. But we did it, you know. And so now I've been to the museum, and actually there is a there's an animal exhibit in the basement, and Roselle's collar is is part of that exhibit. We donated that to oh Bob Ellis 1:03:50 really, oh really, oh God, I I was I was thinking that when I asked you that question earlier today, and I was thinking about that that has got to be remarkable, you know that that that's what touched me so much at the period. That the fact that the two of you were such a team, and I read everything that newspapers printed and watched. I guess there was some there was some CBS specials and so forth too, where you were interviewed, and it was it was just it was just absolutely amazing. Michael Hingson 1:04:21 Well, it is. you know, it is a an awe-inspiring sort of thing. And you know, people always say, you know, don't you feel guilty about surviving when so many people didn't? And and I said, no, I I didn't have any control over that. But what I do have control over is having been a survivor. What am I going to do about it? It's my responsibility to decide how I'm going to deal with moving forward after something like that. And of course, the opportunity opened to travel and speak, and so I've been doing it ever since. And I believe my job is. Is to educate people about what happened on September 11th, and let them know t

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From Dairy Farm to National Scoop: The Marshfield Ice Cream Family Story with Dawn & Angus Hawking #144

It Runs In The Family

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 9, 2026 49:56

One fateful year for dairy farmers and a simple milk quota turned a Cotswolds dairy farm into a nationally-beloved, family-owned ice cream brand - Marshfield Farm Ice Cream.In this episode of It Runs in the Family, Leila and Liz sit down with mother-son duo Dawn and Angus Hawking to explore how diversification and graft turned a side hustle in the late-80s into a multi‑generational business.From robotic milkers and B Corp accreditation to Swizzles licensing deals and “Deliver‑Moo” home delivery, we bring you a candid, hilarious, and practical look at building a family business the next generation is proud to inherit.

Episode 473 – Unstoppable 25 Years After 9/11: Fear, Preparation and Leadership with Michelle Abraham

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 8, 2026 51:16

Twenty-five years after September 11, I still believe that day has important lessons to teach us about fear, preparation, and leadership. This time, Michelle Abraham from AmplifYou takes over the hosting seat and interviews me about my experience escaping the World Trade Center with my guide dog, Roselle. We talk about why knowing the building and its emergency procedures mattered, how I worked to keep fear from taking control, and why focusing on what I could control helped me keep moving. I also share how September 11 changed the direction of my life, led me into professional speaking, and helped shape the Unstoppable Mindset philosophy I continue to share today. Highlights: 02:30 – The ordinary morning that became September 11. 08:04 – How preparation shaped Michael's response when the tower was hit. 18:34 – How Michael and David helped keep panic from taking over. 27:15 – Why trusting Roselle mattered during the collapse. 31:38 – The lesson of focusing only on what you can control. 41:52 – How September 11 helped shape the Unstoppable Mindset philosophy. About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson 00:00 Everyone, I am Michael Hingson, the host of Unstoppable Mindset. You've heard my voice for the last 471 episodes, but I'm calling you all out today and asking you to listen to this because we're going to make a special announcement now regarding the next four episodes, starting with 472. We're going to help commemorate the historic events of September 11, 2001. Yes, they're definitely historic, although not necessarily the most positive things that have ever happened. But as many of you may know, I was in the World Trade Center working on September 11, 2001, on the 78th floor of Tower One, and escaped with my guide dog. I've delivered a speech about that, which we put in the first episode of this podcast series back in August of 2021. But this Friday, episode 472 is going to have an updated speech that I delivered just a few years ago at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. That festival is a yearly event celebrating different kinds of things that have happened in American history, and I was invited to come and speak, which I did. I'm going to put that speech up for you as episode 472. I think you'll find it enlightening. It'll teach you something about blindness and blind people. It'll tell you my story, and it'll give you some inspiration that I hope you will find helpful. Next Tuesday, september 8, Michelle Abraham is going to interview me. Michelle is with Amplify You, the company that does all of our back office stuff and helps me with the editing and other things regarding the podcast. Michelle owns her own podcast, and she is going to interview me about September 11th and other kinds of things relating to what I've learned and things that have happened over the past 25 years. She's also going to be putting this up on her podcast Amplify You, so you can find us in a lot of different places. On September 11th, I'm going to chat with Bob Ellis. Bob was in the Pentagon on September 11, 2001, and had literally just walked out the door of the Pentagon when the plane crashed into the Pentagon and did the things and the damage that it did, and of course generated all the things that occurred at the Pentagon. On the 15th of September, I'm going to come back and have a conversation with all of you about lessons that I've learned over the past 25 years, and just reminisce a little bit about all of that. While the podcast is occurring on September 11th, I will be actually in Kilgore, Texas, doing a speech about September 11th. So lots of things going on, I hope you listen to these episodes. I hope that you'll tell everyone that you can about them. I really enjoy all of the support that you've given us over the years, and we're going to continue to do things with Unstoppable Mindset. And of course, as always, if you'd like to come on or know anyone who would, please let us know. We're always looking for guests. Thanks very much. We'll see you on Friday with the first of these four episodes. What if the biggest thing holding you back isn't what's in front of you, but rather what you believe? Welcome to Unstoppable Mindset, where inclusion, diversity, and the unexpected meet. I'm your host, Michael Hingson, speaker, author, and advocate for inclusion and possibilities. This podcast explores how the beliefs we carry shape the way we live, lead, and connect with others. Each week, I talk with people who challenge assumptions, face adversity head-on, and show what's possible when we choose curiosity over fear. Together, we focus on mindset, resilience, and the small shifts that lead to meaningful change. Let's get started. Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. When and today is a little bit different than what we normally do because I'm going to be the guest on the podcast, Michelle Abraham from Amplify You, who is also putting this particular podcast episode on her podcast, but Michelle is going to mainly be interviewing me. As many of you should know, this is the 25th commemoration or remembrance of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, and we thought it would be very relevant to to spend some time on a few podcast episodes talking about that a little bit. Michael Hingson 04:46 For those of you that listened to the last episode before this one, you heard me deliver my speech talking about what happened to me on september 11. I used. A speech that we we delivered just a couple of years ago. So it's a little bit different than the one that, if you listen to the initial episodes of Unstoppable Mindset, you heard way back 472, 473 episodes ago. But this one still tells the the same story, which is which is kind of cool, and so we're going to talk about that, and we'll talk about our next episode, which will be delivered on September 11th, and that one will be a conversation between me and Bob Ellis, who was in the Pentagon on September 11th, and so that'll be a little bit fun, and then we'll talk about some other stuff as well. But I'm going to turn this over to Michelle because she's the the interviewer, the the boss, and I'm just a guest today. So hi, Michelle. Amplifyou 05:50 Hey, Michael. Well, thanks for being a guest on your own show today for us. It's great to be here with you, and we've been with you all along the Instoppable Mindset Show. It's been really fun to work with you on this show, and so I know we've had we've recorded episodes around your story, and our listeners would have just listening to your keynote. But I would like to tap into Michael 25 years later. When you think back of the morning of September 11, 2001, what comes to your mind? It Michael Hingson 06:23 was a typical day. We we did have a thunderstorm about 1230 that morning, and Roselle, my fifth guide dog, who was my guide dog at the time, was afraid of thunder. She had developed this phobia. The theory, basically, about dogs being afraid of thunder is it's not just the thunder sounds, but it's also the fact that the dogs have a static charge that builds up on their fur, and that gives them a tingly and kind of a strange feeling, and between that and the thunder, they learn to equate the two, and that just causes a lot of angst. And in Roselle's case, at 1230 in the morning, we weren't even hearing a thunderstorm, but she started getting really nervous, and so I took her down to my office. And as I was going downstairs, we started hearing thunder, and the storm actually came right over our house. So I love to say God clearly has a sense of humor of some sort because the thunder-I had never heard thunder like I heard That morning, that is, literally, it came right over our house, so we heard what were explosion sounds. It was it was different than I had ever heard before, but I didn't have any message that said you shouldn't go into the World Trade Center or go to work that day, and I had been planning on going to work that day because we were going to be conducting some sales training seminars, teaching about 50 people from a bunch of resellers under the auspices of Ingram Micro, our major distributor. We were going to be teaching them how to sell our products, so I was going to be there. David Frank, a colleague from our corporate office, was going to be there. He was flying. He flew in to deal with the pricing and distribution models that the Ingram Micro salespeople and resellers would be dealing with, but I was going to be doing the majority of the seminar. Well, anyway, at 1230, I took Roselle down and we stayed there in my office at home until 2o'clock, and then the thunderstorm had passed away and Roselle had calmed down. So we went back up and got to sleep, and woke up at five in the morning, which is what I originally planned on doing. I'd actually planned on going in a little bit earlier than usual, just to be able to spend more time preparing. And I got to the New Jersey train station in Westfield, the New Jersey Transit train station, at somewhere around 615, and I had been planning on taking a 6:18 train into the city. And at about 6:20 or 6:21, train having not arrived, an announcement came over the PA system that there was a problem with the train, and another train would be coming. The next train would be there in a little bit, and we could get on it, and and all that. The day was a calm day. It was a nice autumn day. was great. No indication of of anything to worry about. And I didn't read anything into trains not working, much less the thunderstorm before. So when the train finally arrived, I got on the train and we went into Newark. Then I caught the train that takes me directly to the World Trade Center. It's called Path Train. Path stands for Port Authority Trans Hudson, and that train went straight in from Newark Penn Station with the well to the World Trade Center, and so I got there. And by the time all of a sudden done, I got there at the normal time I would get there rather than getting there 20 or 25 minutes earlier. Go figure, but I went upstairs and I went to the office and there was a person standing outside the door with a big cart. We had ordered breakfast for all the early arrivals, and so I took him in and showed him where to set up, and then I went in. And got my laptop projector and other things that I needed to be able to set up to do the presentations, and went in and set all that up. And then David Frank, my colleague from our corporate office, got there about 8o'clock and helped do the final things, like making sure the projector was totally appropriately aimed. His aim is better than than mine was, anyway. Michael Hingson 10:21 So again, everything was proceeding just as we expected it to do. David came with some early arrivals from Ingram Micro, and we put them in the in the conference room where we were going to be doing the presentations, and the the cart was all set up so they could have breakfast. As I love to tell people, best ham and cheese croissants in the city-they're still good, as far as I remember-but all was was going well, and so we we were getting prepared. And the last thing we had to do before the seminars were to start was to create a list of all the people who would be attending that day and put it on letterhead. We had a spreadsheet with all the names, but we had to put it on letterhead and then fax the list on letterhead to the Port Authority security people so that they would have a list that they would recognize was legitimate. And then when people came into the World Trade Center, they'd go up to the security counter, they'd show their ID, and their names would be compared with a list, and if their name was on the list, then they would just be given a badge with a a barcode where they could go to the appropriate elevator and come up to our floor. So that was kind of the last thing we had to do before the seminars were to start. Amplifyou 11:34 Kind of sounds like business as a norm and business as usual kind of morning for you. It Michael Hingson 11:40 was. It was a total business as usual morning, by every stretch of the imagination. No clue about anything else. Amplifyou 11:48 So, did you guys begun your seminar when the the troy towers were hit? Michael Hingson 11:55 No, the seminar was supposed to start at 9o'clock, and literally, I was reaching for letterhead to print the list at about 845, 846. When suddenly we heard a muffled kind of explosion, the building sort of shuddered. And then, if you imagine my hand as the tower, literally as I'm tipping my hand towards the camera, that's exactly what the tower did. It started tipping and tipping and tipping, and we moved maybe about 2025 feet before the building stopped. Now the thing is that I had spent time learning all I could know about the World Trade Center, learning what to do in an emergency, learning what the fire department did, learning what the police would do, learning where the emergency exits were, learning about all the emergency evacuation procedures, and the reason that I learned all of that was I had opened this office for Quantum Corporation, and I was the Mid-Atlantic region sales manager. I was the leader. I was going to be the person who would be running the office, and I knew that I needed to do what any other leader would do difference being I didn't see stuff, so I needed to learn rather than rely on signs and other things that most sighted people would do. I actually had to learn everything to be able to function. But the difference is that by doing that, what I didn't really realize was I was creating a mindset that says you know what's going on, you know what to do. I knew why the building tipped because tall buildings like that are built with expansion joints. They're made to be buffeted in windstorms, and I had felt that happen many times at the World Trade Center. If there were a wind, we could feel it sort of shake a little bit. But who would have ever thought that somebody would fly into the building with a plane load of jet fuel, 36,000 pounds of jet fuel? But nevertheless, I knew all that I could learn about everything. I learned where different offices and built and and organizations were in the World Trade Center. I had explored the kiosks on the first floor and the shopping mall, so I knew where all the phone kiosks were and where other things were. I knew where the restaurants were, so that if we ever had guests in and we were doing demonstrations and then we were going to be negotiating contracts, we decided to take a break for lunch. I could say, "What kind of lunch do you want? "Oh, you want a deli sandwich? There's this great restaurant downstairs called Fine and Shapiro. Let me take you there, and I would take them. I would lead the way because I couldn't very well say, "Oh, I don't know how to get anywhere. I'm blind. Someone's going to have to lead me. How's that going to work a couple of hours later if we're negotiating multi-million dollar contracts? I needed to literally work, and I don't mean this in a negative way, but from a position of strength. I needed to know all of this in order to be able to do my job as the appropriate leader of the office, and so I learned all of that and put all of that together for whatever was going. On in the World Trade Center at any given time, and so when the building was struck and and the building was tipping, I was standing in my doorway, the doorway between my office and the other parts of of our facility, and the building tipped. David was holding on to my desk as it was tipping. Roselle was asleep under my desk, and finally, David and I were speculating about what was going on. He thought maybe it was an earthquake, and I said no because the building's not shaking around; it's going in one direction. I thought maybe it was just some sort of an explosion, which in a sense it was. But he said it didn't sound like it, and it didn't. But the issue was that we were 18 floors on average below where the tower was hit and on the other side of the building, but that was a calculation that came later. But the bottom line is that the building tipped and then it stopped, and it came back the other way and got vertical again. Amplifyou 15:54 That's incredible! Wow. Michael Hingson 15:56 And as soon as it got vertical, I went back into my office. I met Roselle coming out from under my desk. I took her leash. I told her to heal, which meant to come around on my left side, which she did. She sat down, and about that time, the building dropped straight down about six feet. Amplifyou 16:10 Wow! Michael Hingson 16:10 Now, the reason it dropped is because tall buildings like that are constructed with expansion joints, which is why that it tipped in the first place, and the building didn't break off, but then when it got to be vertical again, after a few seconds, literally the expansion joints contracted and the building went back to its normal configuration, which is exactly what happened. Amplifyou 16:32 Gosh, interesting like technology that that's built in there. I know you you never really I would never known that. Had you not explain that in the story? That's very interesting. That expands like that, and then the six foot drop was then it contracting Michael Hingson 16:47 again. The expansion joints were going back to normal configuration. Amplifyou 16:50 Interesting. If Speaker 1 16:55 you enjoy unstoppable mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week. We've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Amplifyou 17:28 And so there's so then what happened? So take us to the next steps. Michael Hingson 17:32 So the building dropped about six feet, and then David turned from holding onto my desk and looked out the window, looking south toward Battery Park, and he started shouting, "Oh my God, Mike! There's fire and smoke above us! There are millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside our window! And I could hear stuff going by our window, and I was wondering what it was because normally the sound was sort of like what window washers would do if they were on their tracks washing windows, but that wasn't what was going on. It was debris falling, and David was describing it: millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside our window, and he said, "We got to get out of here right now. And I said, "Slow down, David. We'll get out, but we're not going to rush. No, we got to get out of here right now. Slow down, David. We'll get out. Don't worry about it. And finally, I I said several times, "Slow down. He kept saying we got to get out of here right now, and then he used what I call the big line: "You don't understand. You can't see it. Well, first of all, I knew everything that David was seeing and saying because he was telling me about it. So I knew we had millions of pieces of burning paper. Clearly, he said, "There's fire and smoke above us, so the building's on fire. I had all that information, but the problem was that it wasn't what I wasn't seeing that was the issue; it was what David wasn't seeing. David wasn't seeing that sitting next to me was my guide dog Roselle, yawning and wagging her tail, going, "Who woke me up anyway? I was sleeping real good here, sports fans, and and Roselle was not reacting. I wasn't smelling anything that gave me an indication that we were in such peril that we had to run for our lives, and so I kept telling David to slow down. And finally, David did. He stopped. I said, "David, get our guests to the stairs. Do not let them take elevators, because I had learned, of course, that if the building's on fire anywhere, if fire gets into elevator shafts, then anybody in elevator cars is probably going to perish, which did happen. And so David took our guests out of our office, got them to the stairs, and I made it really clear: do not let them take elevators, because there could be fire in the elevator shafts. Well, he got them to the stairs, and then he came back. Meanwhile, I called my wife Karen to let her know that something had happened, or an explosion, or something. But we didn't know. People tell me all the time, even today. Well, of course you didn't know because you couldn't see it. You know, I think all these people who tell me I didn't know because I couldn't see it need to get a. The problem is they really don't know a whole lot about blind people. The airplane hit, on average, 18 floors above us. It hit between floors 93 and 99, so I just say 96, which is 18 floors above where we were in on the 78th floor. But it also hit on the other side of the building. It hit on the north side, and we were on the south side. The last time I checked, Superman and X-ray vision are fiction, and people can't really see through buildings, see through rebar and steel and concrete. The fact of the matter is that they no one knew what was going on. I didn't know, but other people did, and I'll prove that in a moment, but the fact of the matter is, you can't see through all that stuff. Blindness had nothing to do with it, but people keep saying, "Well, you didn't know because you couldn't see it. Well, yeah, well, we'll get to that. Anyway, David got our guest to the stairs. I called Karen. I told her that something had happened. We didn't know what. She wanted to know more, but there was nothing else I could tell her, and so we we parted. I just said, "I'll call you back as soon as I can, and by that, you know, the media hadn't even gotten the story yet. Michael Hingson 21:12 So I love to joke around and say that I beat Charlie Gibson in Good Morning America by eight minutes, but I still haven't gotten a Pulitzer Prize for it. But it's very disappointing. But anyway, so I disconnected with Karen. David came back. We swept the office. We went to the stairs, and we started down. Almost immediately, I began smelling an odor, and it was a familiar odor, but I couldn't quite place it. And it took me a while to realize I was smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. I did a lot of traveling for my company, and so I was very used to what was in airports and the smells and the odors. But it took me like four floors to figure out that I was smelling burning jet fuel. Other people were speculating, wondering what happened, why were we evacuating, what was the building doing, why did it shake, and all that. And then I observed that I was smelling burning jet fuel, and other people said, "You're right. That's burning jet fuel. We must have been hit by an airplane. But you see, we didn't know. We had no clue. Eyesight had nothing to do with it. The fact is that we only figured out we were hit by an airplane because the blind guy realized he was smelling burning jet fuel, and so anyway, we went down the stairs. A couple of burn victims passed us along the way, and a woman, when we got down about 10 floors, stopped and she said, "I can't go on, and we're not going to make it out of here. And I literally just stopped and turned around and gave her a hug right there on the stairs. Roselle gave her some kisses, and other people stopped and joined us. And we all said, "Come on, you can keep going. You can do it. Let's go. And she was able to keep going as we went down the stairs. But we knew instinctively we had to make sure that panic didn't ensue on the stairs. Amplifyou 22:56 Right. Michael Hingson 22:57 We got to about the 50th floor, and then David suddenly said, and he had been getting quieter, but suddenly he said, "Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. And I said, in my best sharp voice, "Stop it, David. If Roselle and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And he told me that that brought him out of the funk that he was singing into. And he said, "I want to walk a floor below you, if it's okay, and I'll tell you whatever I see on the stairs. But I got to do something to get my mind off of worrying about all this stuff. Is that okay? And I said, sure. If that's what you need to do, go ahead. Did it really matter? Well, you know, it did to David, and that's all that really counted. But anyway, David walked a floor below us, and so when I got to the 48th floor, for example, I heard, "Hey, Mike, I'm on the 47th floor. All's good here. Going on down the stairs. We went down, and finally I got to the 45th floor. And David said, '44th floor is where I am. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is. Not stopping. Going on down the stairs, and he did that all the way down the stairs. Why is that important? And why do I even mention it? Because we all did everything we could to keep panic from taking over on the stairs, and by definition, because David was just speaking up, "Hey, Mike, 42nd floor, all's good here, and just shouting up to me what he saw on the stairs and sounding confident. By definition, anyone who was in the sound within the sound of his voice heard someone who was sounding okay and just able to go down the stairs and wasn't seeing any problem, and so they focused on him, and that certainly had to help keep panic from ensuing on the stairs as we went down, and it's so often not even mentioned, but David had to do that for maybe hundreds or 1000s of people who could hear him all the way up and down the stairwell, and I think that's just one of the most important things that I remember about the day that David had to, by definition, help keep panic from going on on the stairs. Now, meanwhile, I was up. Encouraging Roselle, what a good dog, good girl, Roselle. Keep going, let's go, good dog, doing that all the way down the stairs. And I've had people come up to me at speeches that I've given ever since. For example, one in Kansas City, and a woman came up afterward, and she said, "I came into the stairwell on the 54th floor just as you passed by, and I heard you praising your dog and encouraging your dog and sounding very confident, I and other people just followed you because you sounded really good and you didn't sound like you had a problem at all and weren't afraid. We just followed you, so you know that's why I also know that what David was doing was so important because people focused on his voice. Amplifyou 25:42 How fascinating! Someone that was right behind you that day in the stairwell, too. Michael Hingson 25:46 Yeah, yeah. So we continued down. We got to the 30th floor, and that's where we met firefighters coming up. They wanted to help me go down the stairs, and I didn't want their help. I didn't need their help, first of all, but I didn't want their help because that would have meant we were always walking at least two abreast, and they were going to grab my arm and try to lift me as we were going downstairs and do other things that sighted people think you got to do if you're helping a quote a blind person go down the stairs. But there was a more important reason that I didn't want their help, and you know when the firefighter, the first guy, came up and he said, "We're going to send somebody with you. I kept saying, "No, don't do that. We don't need that. What I knew because of all that I had learned was that they were a team. They had to carry all their equipment up the stairs with them. Why? Where would you store it? Let's say you decided to store it on the 34th floor, and fire broke out on the 33rd floor. You'd never get to the equipment. They had to carry all their equipment up with them. They were a team, all 50 of those firefighters, and so I was not about to want to break up the team when, especially, I didn't need it anyway. And I I worked at getting them finally to focus, and I said, look, I got my guide dog here, and they started petting Roselle, and it wasn't the time to give them a lecture about don't pet a guide dog in harness. And by the way, don't pet a guide dog in harness. If you see a guide dog in harness, you can ask me if you can pet the dog, and if I have time, I will stop and I'll take the harness off because Roselle likes to relax, Alamo, my current guide dog, likes to relax. The dogs all love to relax, but if I don't have time, I'll say, "Look, we're kind of in a hurry, so sorry, but we just don't have time. But the firefighters were petting her, and it wasn't the time to give him a lecture about don't pet the guide dog and harness, and it wasn't the time to give him a lecture about don't worry about the blind guy just because he can't see and you can. The reality is that blindness isn't the problem; it's your attitudes about blindness that are more of the problem. But anyway, they finally agreed. When I finally said, "Look, I got my friend David over here who can see, and David and I are going down the stairs together, and they turn to David and they go, "You're with him. And David said, "Yeah, Lee Malone, he's fine. And mention all the hundreds Amplifyou 28:06 of people that are following you. Michael Hingson 28:08 Yeah, and and they all had to stop as we're talking to the firefighters. But anyway, so they eventually started going up the stairs, and I continued down. David reassumed his scouting position, and we followed David by a floor down the stairs, and and did what we needed to do, and then we we finally got to the first floor. Well, David did, and he said the water sprinklers are on. You're going to have to run through a curtain of water to get out of the stairwell, and the the reason there were sprinklers on is if there was fire in the stairwell, the water sprinklers would be keeping the fire from getting into the lobby. But if it were in the lobby, the sprinklers would be keeping the fire from getting into the stairwell. That's part of what was supposed to happen. Well, it it all worked perfectly. So David went through the curtain of water, and I got down to the first floor, and I took Roselle's harness and said forward and hop up and let's go. And we went through this curtain of water and came out the other side into the lobby of Tower One. There was a guy with a bullhorn going, "Go this way, no, no, don't go over that way, go this way, go to the central part of the building, don't go outside, no, no, don't go that way, go this way. And that was because that if they had gone outside, they would have been below where people were jumping, and you know who knows what else, so they didn't, and and they went to the central part of the building. We got out, and I was hearing the guy with the bullhorn. This guy comes up to David and me, and he said he's with the FBI, and he'll take us where we need to go. And I asked him what's going on. He said, "There's no time to tell you. I wish he had, but he didn't know me. He didn't know that information was what I really valued more than anything else, and I wasn't going to panic just because I heard information. But he took us through the complex and eventually up an escalator by the borders books, as far away from the towers as we could be, and then we got out. And as soon as we got out, David saw fire in Tower Two. We had no idea where that came from. We speculated that maybe our building, which had been tipping toward Tower Two, had its fire sort of jump across, maybe somehow. But we didn't know what was going on, and so we were told to leave the area, which we did. We went over to Broadway, which is again what we were told to do and told to get away from the complex, so we went over to Broadway and started walking north on Broadway. So as we were walking north, on my left side was the building, on my right side was Broadway. We're on the west side of Broadway as we're going north, and we passed several streets, and then after we passed all the well, we passed a number of streets, and we finally got to Vessi Street. And David said, "You know, we're very close to Tower Two. I want to take pictures of this fire I see in Tower Two. I said, "Okay. I took out my phone. I tried to call Karen. I couldn't get through. The circuits were busy, as we now know. Of course, people were saying goodbye to loved ones, but for me, I couldn't get through, so I put my phone away. And David was putting his camera away when a police officer yelled, "Get out of here! It's coming down now! And we heard this sound, as I describe it, as kind of a combination of a freight train and a waterfall. What we heard was Tower Two collapsing like 100 yards away from us. You could hear glass breaking and shattering, you could hear metal clattering, and then the white noise of Tower Two just collapsing straight down, which is exactly what it was supposed to do. David and everyone turned and ran. I lifted Roselle by the harness, turned her 180 degrees, and started running back the way I came. David was long gone. Michael Hingson 31:36 I got to the next street back that we had crossed a little while before, and that was Fulton Street. Turned right on Fulton to get more of a building between us and what was collapsing, and we ran about 25 yards and caught up to David. It turns out that we had gone the same way he went, but he had stopped realizing that he had left me and was going to come back and find me. But I found him first, and he apologized. I said, "Don't worry about it, David. Let's keep going. And we kept running. We got caught in all the dirt and the dust and the debris from Tower Two's collapse. As David said, he couldn't see his hand six inches in front of his nose. For my part, I couldn't. With every breath I took, I could feel debris going down my throat into my lungs and settling. It was crazy, and we ran, and eventually, I decided we got to get out of this. So I started telling Roselle right, right, giving her hand signals. I don't know whether she could hear me over the noise of the building collapsing, or whether she could see my hand signals. But I kept telling her to turn right because I wanted her to, because there was a building on my right. Now that we were going the other way, I wanted her to go into the nearest opening that she could find. As we ran, I suddenly heard an opening, and Roselle obviously knew what I wanted because she turned right. She took one step. She stopped. She wouldn't move. Come on, Roselle, keep going. She wouldn't move. Come on, Roselle, you can do it. Keep going. She wouldn't move, and I realized, wait a minute, she's a guide dog. She's doing what she's supposed to do. She stopped for a reason, which she had. I checked. I stuck out my foot, stuck a hand out along the wall, discovered we were at the top of a flight of stairs. Roselle had done her job perfectly. She stopped. So when I gave her the command to go forward, she went down the stairs, and we went down into what was the Fulton Street subway station, and we were there for about 15 minutes or so. Then a police officer found a bunch of us together and said, "The air is clear up above. You need to leave now. And didn't wait for a response; just turned, and we all followed him back to the stairwell, up the stairs, through the little arcade that we had we had passed through part way down the stairs before, up the rest of the stairs and got outside. David looked around and he said, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no Tower Two anymore. And I said, "What do you mean? He said, "All I see are pillars of smoke, hundreds of feet tall. There's no Tower Two. It's gone. Are you sure, David? "Yeah, it's gone. It's not here. We stood there for a moment, and then we continued to walk west on Fulton Street. And we walked for about 10 minutes, and then we were in this little plaza area when suddenly we heard that freight train waterfall sound again, and we figured it was probably our tower collapsing. David looked back and he saw another dust cloud coming our way, and in this plaza where we were, there was a small retaining wall, probably a planter or something, but anyway, there was a retaining wall. We got behind it, we ducked down, and we just waited till everything passed us by and stopped. And then we got up, and David looked around and he said, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no World Trade Center anymore. And I said, "What do you see? And he said, "All I see are fingers of fire and flames, hundreds of feet tall, and pillars of smoke. It's gone. The towers and everything are gone. And we stood there a moment, not able to fathom it. Then I tried to call Karen again, and this time I got through because all the circuits freed up from all the loved ones saying goodbye. Needless to say, and after, as I put it, tears on both sides of the phone line. Michael Hingson 34:59 Karen was finally the first one who told us how two aircraft had been crashed deliberately into the towers of the Pentagon, hijacked aircraft towers at the World Trade Center. That is, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth was still missing over Pennsylvania at that moment. And so that's kind of what happened. The rest of the day we spent getting up toward Midtown Manhattan, and eventually was able to get trains back to New Jersey and so on. And David walked up to where he was staying with his sister, who lived on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Amplifyou 35:30 What an experience, Sue! Thank you for going through that with us again. And you know, there's there's a lot of things that I want to well, there's something I want to ask you. It's like we often talk about preparation of that day, like all the things you did to prepare for what what you actually were able to do during that day. What mattered on that day from all that preparation? Michael Hingson 35:55 That I knew what to do in an emergency. Also, although I really started learning to verbalize it more later, what I learned was how to control the things that I could and not worry about everything else. We what if everything to death as human beings? Yeah. And we what? Well, what if what if you were in the build in the World Trade Center and it collapsed? Well, okay. What could I have done about that? So it's no sense worrying about it, because I, you know, I didn't have access to something to hold the building up, you know, and so many different things. Well, what if Roselle had panicked? Well, that's why I encouraged her and praised her so she wouldn't. But the bottom line is, I didn't have control over that, other than the fact that I encouraged her and and worked with her so well. Well, what if other people panicked on the stairs? I didn't have control over that, other than doing all I could to try to keep panic from happening. And you know, I and other people did a number of things like what David did to keep people from panicking on the stairs. But the bottom line is, there was no sense worrying about those things because we had no control over them. And when we got home that night, I took Roselle's harness off and I was going to take her outside. She ran off. She wouldn't. She wouldn't go outside right away. She grabbed her favorite tug botobone and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linnie. And they were having a good old time just playing. When I talked to the veterinarians of Guide Dogs for the Blind the next day, I asked them, "What's it going to be like for Roselle going forward? And they asked, "Did Roselle have anything that specifically threatened her? And I said, "No, not really, because nothing hit her, nothing threatened her in any way, shape, or form, and the veterinarian who I spoke with said, "Well, there you are. She wasn't threatened. Dogs don't do what if about everything. They live in the moment. It was over for her. She wanted to play, and that's what she did, which was great anyway. But we what if everything to death, and we need to learn how to stop doing that and worry about just the 5% over which we really have control, and not worry about the rest. That's one of the lessons that I learned. I learned about don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on what you can and leave the rest alone. I learned about what if you know and things like that. Amplifyou 38:18 You and Roselle really understood each other in those moments. So what she realized what her job was, and you you were a leader in keeping everyone else under under control from you know reacting. Did you ever? You seem to have been very positive right from the beginning. Were there other moments that you were not sure that you or guys were going to get out of there. Michael Hingson 38:44 No, and my response is there wasn't time to worry about that for me. I was focused on Roselle. I was focused on listening because if people started to panic, I wanted to deal with it. There was a time on the 37th floor where people just started not talking. They were getting very quiet, and I went, "Oh, they're going to be like David was, and so I said, "Hey, everybody, whether you can see me or not, my name is Mike, and I've got my guide dog Roselle here. I'm blind, but I don't want anybody to worry, because if the power and lights go out in the World Trade Center, we're offering a half-price special to get you out today only. You know, and and that's exactly what I wanted them to do was to laugh, and I got people to laugh, which, which I'm sure helped. But those are the kinds of things that that I could focus on dealing with. But I I didn't worry about what I couldn't control, even though that was sort of an instinctive thing. But the mindset kicked in. All the things that I had learned that led up to September 11th kicked in that day, that allowed me to be able to function and and also help other people, and that's the the important part about it is that they all did kick in the mindset kicked in and it all worked well. Amplifyou 39:54 You've told this story so many times. Has the meaning of the story ever changed for you over 25 years? Michael Hingson 40:00 No, I got to say that it hasn't. Well, in some, yeah, I guess in some senses it has. Maybe some of the reasoning has changed. For example, speaking today, I'm speaking to oftentimes a generation of people who have absolutely no memory of the World Trade Center because they weren't even born yet, or they were too young to remember it. Probably, if you're under 30 years old, you really don't have any memory of it. And if you're under 25, you weren't even born at the time. My job, I believe, and so I've expressed this more lately than I have in the past. But my job is to take people in as I speak to the building with me, and take them down the stairs. Take them through the experiences that I had and went through, and why I went through those experiences, and the lessons to be learned from those. And then bring them out when we get to the bottom and outside. Take them all the way through and out, so that they get the full sense of what I experienced. And I've had so many people tell me we were with you every step you took down the stairs. You tell the story so vividly and so well, and and you just you just had us with you all the way down the stairs, which is exactly what I wanted, because I want them to understand that in reality you can learn to deal with things that come along, there are going to be things that you can't deal with because you don't have the skill or whatever. But we all have a lot of skills that we don't think we do, and one of them is that we can learn to control fear. We can learn that fear is around us, but we don't have to let it overwhelm, blind, or paralyze us. We can learn to use fear in a very positive, constructive way to keep us focused and going down the stairs. Amplifyou 41:45 What made you to decide to keep using your experiences each other's? Michael Hingson 41:49 Well, after September 11th, we and and the media got the story, and then people started calling because we got very visible in the media, and people started calling and saying we'd like to hire you to come and talk to us about what we should learn from September 11th. Learn about teamwork. Learn about what happened that day. Learn the lessons of World Trade Center, and so I decided that I would would do that and teach people what they could remember and and take away from it, and people started calling and saying, "Gee, would you come and let us hire you to tell the lessons of September 11th? And by the beginning of 2002, I had so many of those kinds of requests that Karen and I decided that selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more fun than selling computer hardware and being a computer hardware sales manager, and so that's what I turned to doing full time, and learning to help people understand that the reality is that you are a lot better than you think you are, and you need to learn that. But you really can do in a more strong way what you think you can do than than a typical way. Amplifyou 43:02 That's what I was just going to ask you: is if September 11th changed the direction of your life, and it did, from the career you had into now being a professional speaker. Interesting. Michael Hingson 43:13 Oh, yeah, it's helped a lot. And you know, I I also there are other things that that helped me in terms of dealing with public speaking, I love to tell the story that when I was growing up, before I had access to braille, I had braille in kindergarten in Chicago, but then I didn't have braille in California until the fourth grade, and my parents helped me learn things, and I learned all the spelling words that you know you had every every week you had to learn words, and then on Friday you the teacher would tell you the words, and you had to write them down, and you change papers, and the teacher would write the words on the board. Except in my class, in my class the teacher didn't write the words on the board. The teacher would say, "Mike, you have to spell the words out loud for everybody. So I learned how not to fear crowds and learned that I could spell the words. I know one time I messed up a word, and I don't even remember what the word was, but I heard somebody go, "Uh-uh, and I and I went, "Oh, I must have got it wrong, and I figured it out, and then I spelled it right. But that that only happened one time that I can recall. But clearly, that helped me learn not to be afraid of audiences. And today, I don't even understand why people are afraid to speak publicly. The fact of the matter is, audiences don't come to hear you so they can joke at you, make fun of you, yell at you, and so on. They come because they value what you're you're going to talk with them about, and they want to hear it. They want you to be successful, and they'll help you be successful if you let them, Amplifyou 44:41 I think you were always destined to be a public speaker, but it seems like the September 11th really just the universe conspired to make that happen. Maybe sooner than it would have. Did you ever see yourself before that becoming a public speaker? Michael Hingson 44:57 I never thought of being a public speaker before that. Neither had I ever thought of being an author. I I was used to it because working at Quantum on any given day I could be speaking to anybody from the board of directors of a Wall Street firm to IT people to other management people and so on. So I got used to doing it, and I and I learned all about selling and being articulate in sales, so I kind of learned a lot about public speaking from that. But I never really thought I would just be speaking for a living. But given what happened on September 11th, and that I get the opportunity to talk with people and help them see that in reality, what happened on September 11th is a day of lessons that taught us, or can teach us about resilience, can teach us about dealing with things that we don't expect to happen, and that we can learn how to control fear and so on, rather than letting it overwhelm us. So it it is it's really been pretty good. Amplifyou 45:57 Yeah, and when you hear the phrase "unstoppable mindset, how much of that philosophy do you think was shaped on that day, september 11? Michael Hingson 46:05 Oh, I think a lot of it came from from that day and and beyond. You know, the mindset kicked in on september 11 because of what I knew. But I think also that when it came time to start this podcast, which someone asked me to do as part of being involved with the company. I heard a lot of people talking about resilience and so on, and I just thought of unstoppability, unstoppable mindset, because the reality is we all are more unstoppable than we think we are, and so the podcast is literally an opportunity to converse with anyone who wants to come on, and it is a conversation more, much more than an interview, but it's a conversation about them, their lives, what they've done, and including what did you do that made you realize that you're more unstoppable than you think you are, and maybe you didn't realize that, but you are, and here's let's talk about this, and so those are those are things that I talk about. But I believe that everyone has a story to tell, so I'm always looking for people to come on the podcast and tell their stories and talk with with me about their experiences and so on, and that's how you know we found Bob Ellis, who's going to be with us on the Pentagon. I had actually contacted him about speaking to his organization, and I always mentioned the World Trade Center in initial introductory letters. And he wrote back and said that he would love to help, but he also wrote back and said, you know, I was in the Pentagon on September 11th, and that opened our dialog. And the result was that we finally set up for him to come on Unstoppable Mindset. And when when we did our conversation, I learned, for example, that he walked out the door, and it just he was supposed to be in a meeting that was right near where the plane actually came through the window, and in Bob's case, he had literally just left because the meeting ended up not happening, and he had just walked outside the door when he heard the plane, and he didn't really understand what was happening. But the plane sped up, and then it just crashed right into the tower, into the Pentagon, and he ran from the area, but he was very much involved with with talents that allowed him to help acquire things to help other people survive and so on, and did that for a couple of days or four days. But Bob will tell his story on September 11th. But he was literally just out the door when the plane hit. Amplifyou 48:42 Wow! Well, your guests can look forward to that interview. Will be the next up after this one. And I want to thank you, Michael, for sitting down with me today. I oh, it's always a pleasure, and thanks for allowing me to take over the hosting seat for today on your show, so we can hear more of your story, and thank you for sharing all the lessons you've learned from this experience. Michael Hingson 49:07 Well, well, thank you, and and I hope people will take them to heart. And I would say, if anyone wants to be on the podcast, we would love to have you send me an email at speaker s p e a k e r at michael hingson m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com. If you know of any speaking opportunities that need a keynote speaker to come in, not only to tell an inspiring story, but I want to make it very clear, but to teach also lessons about resilience, business continuity, and other things like that, email me at speaker@michaelhingson.com. Would love to talk with you about that. My website is www.michaelhinkson.com, or you can go to www.michaelhinkson.com/podcast. But we'd love to hear from you in in any way and and get to know you better and you know go from there. Amplifyou 49:57 Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Michael, for today. We'll take care and see you soon. Michael Hingson 50:02 Sounds good. Thank you for being here with me on Unstoppable Mindset. I hope today's conversation left you with a fresh perspective, a new insight, or at least something worth thinking about. If you're ready to go deeper into the ideas that shape how we see ourselves and others, I have a free gift for you. Head over to michaelhingson.com and download my free ebook, Blinded by Fear. It explores the invisible beliefs that hold us back and shows you how to reframe them so you can move forward with clarity and confidence. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast, leave a review, and share this show with someone who can use a reminder that growth starts with mindset. When people think differently, we all move forward together. Thanks again for listening. Keep learning, keep questioning, and keep choosing to live with an unstoppable mindset.

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What's Burrata Plus Battling Meat Processing Deserts

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 8, 2026 50:00

Corn silage harvest will likely begin this week around Wisconsin. The dry weather in some areas means yields are projected to be down, and the harvest window moved up. That's what Ronald Lubeck with General Farm Supply in Marshfield is noticing. He tells Larry Lee that yields are changing every few miles. That means it'll take until the harvest is all wrapped up to get an actual average on yields.Wet weather will make its way across some of the drier areas of Wisconsin today. Stu Muck says temperatures will stay moderate and that rain will hang around until later this week.There are plenty of tools available to help people manage the tax implications of an auction. Ashley Huhn with the Steffes Group explains how they help in that area. Paid for by Steffes Group.Burrata is an Italian style cheese that's getting a Wisconsin spin thanks to Crave Brothers Farmstead Cheese in Waterloo. Teri Barr learns about the challenges this variety brings from Deb Crave, one of the farmstead operators.Today with more consumers looking to bridge the food retail gap by knowing their farmers, a new problem's emerged. Once they find a farmer and purchase the goods - who's going to process them? That's a big issue for people looking to buy meat locally. Kiley Allan finds out about "meat processing deserts" in the state. Kelly Maynard, Cooperative Development Specialist for UW Center for Cooperative says it started during the pandemic, and continues as an issue today.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Episode 472 – Unstoppable Lessons From My 9/11 Survival Story

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Play Episode Listen Later Sep 4, 2026 58:44

Surviving September 11 took more than courage. It took preparation, trust, and the ability to manage fear. I share my experience escaping from the 78th floor of the World Trade Center with my guide dog, Roselle, and the lessons that shaped how I responded that morning. You'll hear how years of learning my surroundings, trusting my training, and understanding my role as a leader helped me stay focused during the evacuation. I also explore blindness, the limits society places on blind people, and the power of teamwork between a guide dog and handler. Most of all, this story is about focusing on what you can control, trusting the relationships you've built, and preparing yourself to act when fear shows up. Highlights: 00:10 – Why Michael is revisiting September 11, 25 years later. 11:45 – How Michael learned that blindness itself isn't the limitation. 32:50 – Why preparation inside the World Trade Center mattered when crisis hit. 36:40 – How staying calm helped Michael lead others toward safety. 44:46 – The lesson Michael heard while running from the collapsing tower. 51:59 – What Roselle taught Michael about fear, trust, and moving forward. About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Transcript: Michael Hingson 00:04 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of Unstoppable Mindset. I am your host, Mike Hingson, and today we're doing something a little bit different. This is Friday, september 4, 20/26, and this is the first of four episodes commemorating all of the events that happened in and around September 11, 2001. As many of you know, I was in the World Trade Center working for a company. I had opened an office for them on the 78th floor of Tower One of the World Trade Center, and on September 11th, I was in my office because we were going to be doing some special sales training for people, and I was there getting prepared to do all of that when the terrorists attacked the towers, and then later the Pentagon. And as you may know, a fourth aircraft was crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, because people on the aircraft took it over from the terrorists or tried to anyway, so one of the things that we thought would be helpful would be for me to give you again a taste of what I actually went through and what occurred on September 11, 2001, when we started this podcast back in August of 2021, I played a speech that talked about some of what happened to me in the World Trade Center. But today we're going to do a different speech. In April of 2024, I was invited to be a speaker at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. Now that festival is a yearly event celebrating and commemorating different events in American history. In 2024, I was invited to come and speak and talk about my experience at the World Trade Center and to help put some of that into context. I thought it would be very relevant for all of you if we played that speech for you, so that you would again get a taste of what occurred with me, why I was able to survive and escape, and a little bit about the lessons that we should learn about not only September 11th, but frankly, from my perspective, being the fact that I have been blind since I was born in 1950, I want you to learn a little bit more about blindness. So we're going to present to you now my speech delivered in April on April 27, 2024, at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival. I hope that you'll enjoy it. I hope that it will teach you some things, and don't forget that we have other episodes coming up. We have another episode occurring on the eighth of September where I'm going to be interviewed by Michelle Abraham from Amplify You. Amplify You is the company that I work with to get these podcasts out twice a week, and Michelle has her own podcast, and she's going to interview me to talk about lessons we've learned, to talk a little bit about what happened on September 11th. But we won't give anything away for what's going to happen later in this series of episodes. On September 11th, I will be talking with Bob Ellis. Bob was at the Pentagon on September 11th and literally just walked out the door just before the aircraft hit the Pentagon. We're going to talk about that and again, hopefully, put some of things in perspective for you. Then on the 15th of September, I'm going to come back on episode 475 of our podcast, and talk a little bit more in detail about the lessons that I've learned, and talk about things that I hope people will take away and remember from september 11. I know many of you weren't even born when the World Trade Center terrorist attacks occurred, and so this episode 472, especially, I hope will give you a little bit better sense of what occurred, and from my perspective, why things occurred the way they did, and and how we proceed. So I hope you'll enjoy this episode. Hope that you'll enjoy what it brings, and we will definitely be moving forward to talk about some other things later on. Speaker 1 04:24 There are moments in American history that changed the national conscience. Yesterday, we heard about the assassination of President Kennedy. Some of you might be old enough to remember the attack of Pearl Harbor, and for most recently in American history, of course, the terrorist attacks September 11th. Today, you're going to hear a riveting account, a a heroic story of a man whose story I believe will really pull at your heartstrings. And to moderate that panel today, or that interview, to do is conduct our interview. Today is Mary Acher, who's no stranger to this stage, good friend, presidential historian, and a great interviewer. If you'll put your hands together for Miss Mary, Speaker 2 05:11 I just am so honored to met Michael Hinkson and Alamo. You know by what you see that he came down on the 78th floor of the North Tower with his guide dog Brosel, but I have a friend named Doug Weed who always told me, "You don't brag on yourself; you get somebody else to brag on you. And I want to brag on Michael before we start this. Before I ask him to tell this story, Michael was a premature baby, and at the time when he was born, they put the babies in pre in a the premature babies in a incubator sealed with 100% oxygen, and the doctors didn't know that then, but it blinded the children, and Michael was blinded at birth. So Michael was very fortunate that he had parents that refused to allow him to even think about being disabled. They mainstreamed him before mainstreaming was even known, and they taught him to ride a bicycle. They let him drive a car, and later in his life, he actually piloted an airplane. Is that amazing? He loved mathematics. He loved physics. He was taught geometry. He solved math problems in his head. He's got a master's degree in physics and another-not a master's, but a regular in in teaching. So that is why he is such an amazing man. He's never ever let this what enough people call a disability stop him at all? As a matter of fact, he has been such an amazing gift to the unsighted community in in the Braille and things that technology that blind people can utilize to be online and be all kinds of of things that they wouldn't ever have been allowed to do even 50 years ago. So anyway, I'm just so honored to have met you, Michael. It's just been amazing. I'm going to take him to Lambert's tomorrow. He says I have to catch the rolls, or somebody else will catch them and they'll eat them and he won't get it. I promised him I'd catch the rolls. All right, my dear Michael, would you start telling us about that horrendous day? I am Michael Hingson 08:00 going to not do what I said I was gonna do. I'm gonna stand up, and I'm gonna be very interested to go to Lambert's to see what they do with me, since normally they would throw the rolls, as I understand it. And I'm gonna point out that doesn't really work. So now, what are you gonna do? Because if they all fall on the floor and the dog gets them, and the dog gets sick, you guys are in trouble. So I'll be interested to see exactly what happens. No, I'm sure it will work out. Mary, thank you for those those kind words. I'd like to start by defining a couple things to help us in all of this. Mary is absolutely right about what my parents did in their position, the doctors told my parents when it was discovered I was blind at about four months of age that I should be sent to a home because no blind child could ever grow up to amount to anything or contribute to society. If you think that's bad, it was worse in other parts of the world where, when children were born who were blind, were just drowned in a bucket of water. So, in a sense, it wasn't as bad. Not every child who was born premature and put in an incubator did go blind, and it's unfortunate, in a sense, that at the time that I was born. Dr. Arnold Papps at the Wilmer Eye Institute at Johns Hopkins University had discovered that, in fact, oxygen could cause blindness, and even a few minutes a day of a non-oxygen environment would drop the incidence of blindness down to zero. But medical science didn't believe him because they said, "Well, too much oxygen can't be a problem. And what Dr. Arnold Pats essentially really proved is that too much of anything can be a problem. So it is it is an issue. I finally actually some time ago got to meet Dr. Pats. Before he passed, it was it was fascinating to talk with him about that. The condition at the time when I was born was called retroenterial fibroplasia. If you want to know how to spell that, I wrote a book called Thunderdog: The Story of a Blind Man, His Guide Dog, and the Triumph of Trust at Ground Zero, which we plan to have here, but the publisher messed up, so it wasn't. But you can go buy Thunderdog anywhere, and you can learn how to spell retrolateral fibroplegia. It is now called retinopathyoprematurity. I guess that's a little easier to spell. I don't know still why they changed the name, but they did. So fine, I don't care. I am blind. I don't care. Blindness isn't the problem. I've learned from my parents and growing up and being alive now for yep 74 years, blindness isn't the problem. The problem is our perception of blindness, what we believe blind people can and can't do, as opposed to what they truly can and can't do. If you want to really see a story or something about a blind person driving a car, there is a website www.blinddriverchallenge.org. Blinddriverchallenge.org. The president of the National Federation of the Blind in October of 2001 challenged private industry and universities to create a vehicle that a blind person could drive, not an autonomous vehicle, but truly a vehicle that would transmit to the blind person the information necessary for them to drive the vehicle. What you will see at blinddriverchallenge.org is a video of a gentleman named Mark Riccobono. Too many marks. Mark Riccobono driving a vehicle independently without any assistance around the Daytona Speedway, right before the 2011 Rolex 24 race, he will go through an obstacle course. He will pass boxes that are being thrown out of a van to try to block his way. He will pass the van and a number of things like that. The reality is, what is driving? It's all about you having the information necessary for you to control your vehicle, and as far as I'm concerned, given what Mark Riccobono did, and given the reality that the information is available to us, given the way most sighted drivers drive, I'll take me any day, especially where I live in Victorville. My gosh! But the the reality is, blindness isn't the problem. I grew up believing that I went to public school. I went to college. Michael Hingson 12:26 I did get a master's degree in physics. As I love to tell people, I'm as good as Doc Brown from Back to the Future in building reactors and nuclear bombs. The only difference between me and Doc Brown is I won't go steal fissionable material from some source that might come after me later. So you know, I think I was a little smarter than Doc Brown, but the fact is, again, it's not the problem. I was also the program director of the campus radio station for a while, and I worked at the campus radio station KUCI 89.9 on your FM dial for seven years. I did a show playing old radio shows every Sunday night from six to nine. Didn't even know what 60 minutes was. I heard about it, and one day finally somebody from the show or from the the Orange County Jail called and said, "We really got a situation. We want you to know about it here at the jail. People who heard about you, they've heard about 60 minutes, and on Sunday nights we have to divide the jail in half. Half of the people go up to a television room to watch 60 Minutes, and the other half, which is the bigger half, want to hear your show playing old radio shows on Sunday nights. So you know we must be doing something right. That even at the jail, they liked us. I went to work in 1976 for the National Federation of the Blind. It's the largest organization of blind consumers in the country. I was offered a position because I was in in the science world, one of the few at the time in that world. And the president of the federation, Dr. Jernigan, told me in late 74, early 75, we got a situation. There's a guy named Ray Kurzweil. You may have heard of Ray. He's a futurist. He's an inventor. He's invented the singularity. I'm not totally sure I agree with everything that Ray says. You know, Ray once said the only problem with God is we haven't invented it yet. I don't agree with that. And the other part about it is Ray says that we're really going to all become part of the world when chips are created that will allow us to directly interact with computers. Well, we'll see. I don't want to chip in my brain yet. But Ray at that time had developed a piece of technology that would actually look at a printed page. It actually had to build it up line by line, so it wasn't like snapping a picture. But it would learn to recognize all the characters on that page, no matter what their type styles or print styles were, and it would read it out loud, called the Kurzweil Reading Machine for the Blind. Just like with blindness and retro-entral fibroblasia, the government didn't believe he could do it because nobody else had been able to do it, and so they wouldn't help fund it. He came to the federation, and the federation said, "Tell you what we're going to do." Ray, I'm not sure they said it quite that way, but tell you what we're going to do, Ray. We're going to send somebody up there with a bunch of material, and if your machine reads what we bring up, not what you want to read, if it reads what we bring up, then we're going to help you get funding. And Ray, I'm sure again it wasn't quite the way he said it, but he said, "Bring it on. They did. It did, and a relationship began that exists to this day-a machine that literally would read print out loud. And Ray wanted the first application of omnivore optical character recognition to be a machine that would read print out loud for blind people. We created a project where we purchased several machines, and then for 18 months, from 1976, in October through June of 1978, I lived in suitcases or out of suitcases in hotels, traveling around the country where we put machines at places like the New York Public Library, the Iowa Commission for the Blind, the San Francisco Public Library, and some other agencies for the blind around the country. Michael Hingson 15:59 The idea being that we wanted blind people to come and use the machine, read whatever they wanted to read, and then give us information about what needed to go into a final production model of the machine. I wrote training curriculum. I wrote the the technical manuals for teaching people how to use the machine. I taught people to use it. I observed people using it. Sometimes grabbed my old soldering gun and fix things that broke on the machines. These were $50,000, 400 pound machines. They weren't little things like an app on an iPhone today, right? So anyway, we finally wrote the final recommendations, and then Ray said, "I want to hire you to come and do the same sort of thing within the company. So I went to work for Ray, moved to Cambridge, Massachusetts. Actually, I learned I moved to Winthrop, Massachusetts, learned how to go from Winthrop to Cambridge every day, and we began a relationship. And I worked at Kurzweil Computer Products, in and that started in again October of 1978. In May of 1978, I was called into the office of the VP of Marketing, and Andrew Parson said, "We're laying you off. What? We're laying you off. Why? Oh, it's not that you're doing a bad job or anything, but unfortunately, like a lot of engineering startup companies, we've hired too many people who aren't revenue producers, and we have to have more revenue producers. And so, as important as your job is, it's not as important as making money for the company. So we have to lay you off. Then he paused and he said, "Unless you'll go into sales. Now, I'm a science guy. However, I thought about it for a micro nanosecond, and I said, "Sure, I'll go into sales. As I love to tell people, I decided I would lower my standards and go from science to sales, and did. I said I don't know anything about sales. He said we'll send you to a Dale Carnegie sales course and all that. Well, I started selling, but not the reading machine for the blind. Instead, I sold a new product they had called the Kurzweil Data Entry Machine, and unlike the reading machine for the blind that sold for $50,000, if you want one, we might be able to find one of the old machines for you for 49 995. Instead, I sold a new product called the Kurzweil Data Entry Machine, which was only $125,000. I guess they had confidence in my ability, and I was very grateful for it. The real reason that I didn't want to refuse the sales position is I knew that at that time, and it's still somewhat today, the unemployment rate among employable blind people is close to 70. That is seven 0% It's not because we can't do the work; it's because people think we won't be able to do the work and don't give us the opportunity. So the bottom line is, I lowered my standards and went from science to sales, and did that for a while. And then in 1981, while Xerox was considering and actually working toward buying the product, I was asked by Ray and the VP of Sales to move back to California, where I was from, to help integrate Kurzweil into the Xerox West Coast environment, including their research center called Palo Alto Area Research Center Park, and I did. And my thanks for that was that after the the whole sale was consummated and Xerox completely took over. I was the last salesperson in June of 1984 to receive a FedEx letter saying thank you for your service, but we don't want you anymore. Goodbye, because all Xerox wanted was the technology. They didn't want the people. Now I was confronted with the situation. How am I going to find a job? What am I going to do? 70% unemployment. and I went out and I wrote lots of cover letters, sent out lots of resumes, and I even got a headhunter who called me and said, "Love your resume. We're going to have you interview with this company up in San Jose, California. We'll send you a ticket. They sent me the ticket the night before the flight. The guy called. Back and he says, "You know, I was just looking at your resume again. I see you do a lot of things with blind people. Michael Hingson 20:04 Is there somebody in your family who's blind? You notice that? And I said, "Yeah, I'm blind. You're blind? Well, I'm going to have to call them. They're not going to want to talk to you. I said, "Nothing has changed. My resume is still the same, but you're blind. It's all changed. No, it hasn't. There were no laws to stand on. The reservation was canceled, and I didn't do the interview. Their loss. If Speaker 3 20:30 you enjoy Unstoppable Mindset and would like to help us continue bringing these conversations to you each week, we've created a way for you to support the show. Your contribution helps us cover production costs and continue sharing stories, insights, and ideas that inspire people to live with purpose and possibility. If supporting the podcast feels right for you, you'll find the link in the show notes. Thank you for being part of the Unstoppable Mindset Community. Michael Hingson 21:02 Eventually, not finding a job, I started my own company selling computer-aided design systems to architects. A blind guy selling CAD systems? Why the heck not? I didn't need to work the machine. What I needed to know was how to work the machine, so I could describe it to architects, and I could sit them down in front of a machine and talk with them and talk them through it. We also hired people to demo CAD systems, and I did that for four years. And then I went back into the workforce. And when I went back into the workforce, my wife and I were talking one day, and she said, "You know, I got this great job I just discovered in the newspaper. It's selling high-end, new, revolutionary, hot, pluggable disc technology. It's perfect for you. You should apply. And I said to my wife Karen, who I had married in 1982. By the way, Karen also had a disability. She was in a wheelchair her whole life. She reads. I push. Worked out well. I said, so do I say in my cover letter I'm blind or not? Because typically, if you say you're blind, same thing will happen with the headhunter. You won't even get a call back if you don't say you're blind. You might get a callback, but then they're going to have all their defenses go up when you show up for the interview. And she said, "You're an idiot. Wives can do that, gentlemen, and it's fine. You're an idiot. Why? What's the most important thing you always said to every salesperson you ever hired, well, I wasn't quite sure which things she was thinking of. I had several things that I always said to salespeople I hired. She said, "You always told every salesperson you ever hired turn here's the operative word perceived liabilities into assets. You ever watch those little cartoons in the newspapers and all that, where the light bulb goes on over your head. Well, that's what happened, and I went and I wrote a cover letter to send with this resume to this company. And here are the last two paragraphs of the letter. The most important thing you need to know about me is that I am blind. As a blind person, I have had to sell all my life just to be able to function and survive. I've had to sell to take my guide dog on airplanes. I didn't tell them that we had to sue one airline because they violated their own policy because they wouldn't let me go on an airplane with my guide dog. I've had to sell to convince people to let me buy a house, move into apartments, sometimes take my guide dog into grocery stores, and do anything else because I was blind, I've always had to sell. So, second paragraph: When you're hiring someone for this job, do you want to hire somebody who comes in and works for eight or 10 hours a day, and then just goes home because the job is over, or do you want to truly hire somebody who understands sales for the science and art that it is, and who sells 24 hours a day as a way of life. Sent off the letter. Waited for two weeks, wondering if I'd get a call or an email. Well, no, not an email, not back then. But in late June 19 or May 1989, I got a call. This is Doug Cooper, head of marketing for Articon. We love your letter. Would you come for an interview? And I said sure. Next day we were down there. I was hired and started on july 2, 1989. Love to start on the second of July, or actually the third of July, because then I got the next day off. It was great. So I went to work for them, and we moved from where we were living in Mission Viejo down to Vista, California. The company was in Carlsbad. I began selling to the East Coast, selling our technologies and other technologies, Sun Microsystems products, and so on. And then in 1996, the owner of the company asked me to move to New York for them because we were selling to Wall Street. Michael Hingson 24:37 Wall Street was always good at getting and demanding and getting what they demanded, and they always said, "If you are a manufacturer and you're selling products to us, we want a representative, not an agent, but we want the company in Wall Street Arena to be able to to hold responsible and deal with. So we moved to New York. And I went to work on the 23rd floor of Tower Two of the World Trade Center, and was there for about a year, and then was recruited away by another company, and it wasn't hard because Articon did not figure out how to support a branch operation. So I was recruited away, and then in 1999 I was recruited away by Quantum Corporation, and now we're getting to what Mary asked about. But I needed to give you the background. Hope it was okay. So in 1999, I was hired to open an office for Quantum Corporation on well in New York City. Quantum was a company that made products called tape libraries. They were big boxes that consisted of tape drives and lots of tape cartridges, and you would attach them to computer networks, and then you would use software like one called Veritas, which is still used today. And what you would do is you would back up all of your data over the network into these tape libraries, onto tape cartridges, and then you would take the tape cartridges out and store them off-site. Now I gotta stop and be spiteful because in New Jersey they love to say that they stored them in a town called Mountainside Under a Mountain. You ever see a mountain in northern New Jersey? I came from California where we had mountains that were eight, 910, 1000 feet tall. They didn't even have decent hills, but they still called it a mountain. That was fine, whatever. They still were able to store the tapes in safe places. But the point is that all the data was backed up off-site, which is what they needed to do. We opened the actual office on august 1, 2000. I hired a staff, and we had a staff that came in and and sold, and we also worked with resellers. And in August of 2001, our main distributor Ingram Micro said, "You know, we got a lot of resellers who are selling your products, but they don't really know how to do it. Can we hold some seminars to teach our your reseller partners, our customers, the resellers, how to sell your product? I said, "You bet. We worked it out with the folks at Quantum. David Frank, who was in charge of pricing and distribution, said he wanted to come back to be a part of the seminars, and we set up doing the seminars. The idea was that we would teach them. I would be their main point of contact since I worked and lived there. David would be the person that I or they would contact without with any pricing issues, but I would be the technical point of contact contact. Master's degree in physics helps, and so we set up the seminars. And wouldn't you know it, we set them up to be held on september 11, 2001. The evening before, or the morning of September 11th, about 12:30, Roselle, my guide dog at the time, woke me up. She was very nervous and fidgety. I knew what it was like when she was fidgety. It was usually because it was a thunderstorm. She didn't like thunder, and we went down to my office. And of course, a thunderstorm did happen, and the storm literally came right over our house. I've never been in an environment where bombs went off around me, but I got to say that in this case, the thunder claps were, as I said, literally right over us, and it had to be like what a bomb sounds like going off. Anyway, it went on till about two, and then we went back up and got a couple more hours of sleep, three more hours of sleep. I got up. We went in and got to the office at about 7:40 in the morning on September 11th. As I came to the door, somebody came up with a cart. It turns out it was a guy from the Port Authority cafeteria. Michael Hingson 28:33 We were going to be providing breakfast and snacks for the first and second seminarians. We had seminars going all day, so we went in. I showed him where I wanted to set up everything in the conference room. I went in, got my laptop computer out of my backpack briefcase. I got my PowerPoint projector, and I went into the conference room and set everything up because I was going to be doing a PowerPoint show that day to give people all the information they needed about the ATLP 3000, the ATLP 1000, and so on. Yes, blind people can do PowerPoint, folks. It's not magic. You sighted bigots. So I had a script, and my wife and I had created the script, and I'd used it many times. The script was in Braille. I knew what was on every slide. We put a couple of things in addition on the script. We put all the wording from the slides on the script, and we also put on the script descriptions of the pictures, as well as where the picture would show up on the screen. So I would, for example, when we showed this to other customers around the city, I'd blow their minds because I would be doing the presentation. My sales guys loved it when I went out and did PowerPoint presentations because I could just point over my shoulder. On the left side of your screen, you'll see the ATLP 3000 with 16 cartridge, 16 drives, 326. Cartridges, and you see the label that says Prism Technology. We could hook five of them together. On the right side of your screen, you'll see the ATLP 1000, which was a single unit with 30 cartridges and one tape drive. And people would come up to me afterwards, and they say, "You know, we're ticked at you. I go, "Why? Well, first of all, your presentation was not boring, which usually they are. But second of all, you never turned and looked at the screen. You kept looking at us, even though you were pointing right to where everything was with your laser pointer. We didn't dare fall asleep. We forgot you were blind. And my response was, "You don't get it. My dog was down here taking notes. If you'd fallen asleep, we would have got you anyway. But that was what it was about. My responsibility was to be the leader of that office, and I had to do what anyone else would do. One of the main things that I did was spend hours, days walking around the World Trade Center, learning what the kiosks were in the shopping mall on the first floor, learning where different offices were, consulting with the Port Authority police and the fire prevention people learning what to do in case of an emergency because sometimes I might be in the office all by my little self. There would be nobody else around. I didn't want my staff in the office. I wanted them out selling and working and supporting customers. Not being in the office, of course, they did usually come in at least once a week. And and so I learned never watched The Sopranos, but I got to tell you, I learned more about the Sopranos from all the Italian Americans on my staff who talked about the Sopranos constantly. Bada bing, bada boom, and I learned a whole lot about Tony Soprano without ever watching the show. But the point is that I needed to know all that stuff. I needed to know where the restaurants were. Customers come into the office. Oh, you want to go out to lunch? What kind of food do you want? There's a great deli downstairs called Fine and Shapiro. Let me take you there. How would it have looked if I didn't know how to do that, and I had to say to someone, "You're going to have to let me take your arm and lead me there because I don't know how to get there, and two hours later we're supposed to be negotiating multi-million dollar contracts? No, I needed to know it. I didn't have the luxury, and I don't regard it as a luxury. I regard it as a disability of reading signs. I needed to know all of that stuff. What I didn't realize is that was creating a mindset in me, which I'll talk about in a moment. Michael Hingson 32:15 Anyway, got all the laptop projectors and everything set up. The only thing I knew I didn't know how to do extremely well is to get it exactly aimed right, but about 8o'clock, David Frank came in and I said, "Say, David, this is all set up, but let's aim the projector just exactly where you want it on the screen. And we did have to turn it just a little bit, but not too much. But anyway, at 845, I was in my office and David was with me. We were creating a final list of all the people who were going to be attending the seminars, because the Port Authority police, the security people, needed to know who was coming. There were two ways you could get into the building: either we faxed on letterhead a list of people who were coming on any given day, and then the people coming in would show their photo IDs, and it would be verified against the list. And if they were allowed in, then they would be given a badge that they would put over their neck, and they would carry that, and they could scan barcode and go into the appropriate elevator to come onto our floor, or they'd have to call us every time somebody came in. And I didn't want a lot of phone calls coming in, so we were faxing the list. I was reaching for Letterhead to fax to to print the list on Letterhead when suddenly I heard and felt kind of a muffled thump and a vibration. And then literally, if you any blind people in the room, well, I'll do it anyway. I'm holding up my hand, and what happened was that literally, as I'm now tipping my hand toward you, the building began to tip. We probably moved about 20 feet. The building kept tipping and tipping. David and I said together, "What's going on? I don't know. What's going on? What do you think? Was it an explosion? I said. David said, "Didn't sound like it. Is it an earthquake? David was from New York, and now he's living in California. He didn't know about earthquakes. I said, "No, the building wasn't shaking around. It was going in one direction. And finally, and I went over and I stood in the doorway between my office and the the outside lobby of our our offices, and I stood there. Roselle was asleep under my desk. David was just on the other side of my desk, holding it near our windows, looking out over Manhattan, the south side of Manhattan. And finally, David and I both said goodbye to each other because we thought we had moved so far that the building was going to take a 78 floor plunge to the street. And then the building slowed down, and it stopped, and it moved back. As soon as it got vertical, I started walking back into the office. I met Roselle coming around from under my desk. I took her leash. I said "heel, which meant to come around behind me to sit and lie down, which is what I would normally have Alamo do, but he's comfortable, so we'll just leave him there. Roselle sat down, and about that time. The building dropped straight down about six feet. Why did it drop down? Because tall buildings like that literally are springs. They're made to flex in windstorms and other things like that. An Empire, an airplane hit the Empire State Building in the 1940s because it got lost in a fog bank. Tall buildings are flexible. They have expansion joints, and when the building was hit, the expansion joints took up all of the the things that were going on. And then when the building got straight again, the expansion joints dropped back down to their normal configuration. I knew that because I had talked to people about stuff like that. I'd forgotten it until later, but I knew it. What I hadn't realized is that what was happening when I was learning so much stuff was that a mindset was being developed in me that said, "You know what to do in an emergency. And as soon as the building dropped, David turned and looked out the window and started shouting, "Oh my God, Mike! There's fire and smoke over us! There were millions of pieces of burning paper falling outside the windows. Michael Hingson 35:59 We got to get out of here right now! Slow down, David. No, we got to get out of here. The building's on fire. I could hear things rushing and brushing outside our windows, and now I knew what they were. David told me millions of pieces of burning paper, right? And I didn't smell any smoke. Roselle wasn't doing anything to indicate any concern, and David kept saying, "We got to get out of here. The building's on fire. And I kept saying, "Slow down. Our guests began to scream. We had like five or six who were in our conference room. Early arrivals. They started coming out, but then they heard me say, "Slow down, stop, David. Just wait. And they waited to see what was going to happen. And finally, David used the big line: "You don't understand. You can't see Speaker 4 36:37 it. The Michael Hingson 36:38 problem wasn't what I wasn't seeing, the problem was what David wasn't seeing-a dog sitting next to me, wagging her tail, yawning, going, "Who the heck woke me up? I was comfy, not giving any indication of fear. And I eventually got David to focus, and I said, "David, get our guests to the stairs. Don't let them take the elevators, because I knew if there's fire, especially because if there's fire, the elevators could become fire traps. The fire could get into the elevator shafts, which it did, and anybody in the cars would be burned. David left with our guests, got them to the stairs. Meanwhile, I called Karen and told her that there had been an explosion or something. We had no clue. There was no way to know. I love it. Reporters, even today, and other people say, "Well, of course you didn't know you couldn't see it. Excuse me, you numbskulls. The last time I checked, Superman and X-ray vision were fiction, and the airplane hit 18 floors above us on the other side of the building. No one knew. All the way down the stairs, we didn't know because no one saw it. No one knew. Anyway, I called and told Karen she wanted to know more. I said, "I don't know anything else. I've got to go because we're not staying here. We knew instantly that we had to leave, but we got our guests out. Then David came back. We swept the offices one last time. Went to the stairs and we started down. If I knew it was the last time I was going to be in the building, I would have taken a couple of things that I didn't take. Like I had a really neat talking scientific calculator that I couldn't replace. And if I had known that I wasn't coming back, I would have taken it. It would have been a little heavier, but I would have taken it anyway. We started down the stairs. There were other people, of course, on the stairs. We got down about four floors, and I was smelling an odor. I couldn't quite figure it out, and suddenly I realized I'm smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. I traveled 100,000 miles a year for my company. I knew what the odor of jet fuel was like. I knew the kerosene smell, but it took a while to associate it with the World Trade Center because no one would have ever thought you would have smelled it there. When I realized what it was, I observed to the other people around me on the stairs, "I'm smelling the fumes from burning jet fuel. And they said, "Yeah, you're right. That's what it is. We must have been hit by an airplane. You understand? Nobody knew. We must have been hit because of what we're smelling, so we all accepted that that was what was going on, but we had no clue. We continued down the stairs, about 10 floors down. At one point, a woman stopped right behind me, and she said, "I can't go on. I can't breathe. We're not going to make it out. And I stopped and turned around and said, "Sure, we are. Come on, this is my guide dog Roselle. He's guiding me, and and she'll encourage you. Roselle gave her kisses, and this lady gave Roselle a few pets, and so on. And other people surrounded her, and we had a group hug, and the lady was able to keep going. A few burn victims passed us on the stairs as we went down. At about the 50th floor, David, who had gotten a little quiet. Suddenly said, "Mike, we're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. Now you heard that I have a teaching credential. What you don't know, and teachers won't generally acknowledge it, but I'm going to tell you anyway. There's a secret class we take called Voice 101: How to Yell at Students. Didn't know that, did you? And anyway, as soon as David. Said Mike, "We're going to die. We're not going to make it out of here. I just said as sharply and with a snap into my voice that I could, "Stop it, David! If Rosella and I can go down these stairs, so can you. And David told me later that that brought him out of his funk. Michael Hingson 40:12 What he then said is, "I got to keep my mind off this. I want to walk a floor below you and shout up to you what I see on the stairs. Is that okay? And I said, sure. Did I really need him to do that? No. Did it matter? No, but it did to David. However, what I came to realize over time was, David doing that was one of the most important things that I experienced on that day. So I'm going down the stairs. I get to floor 49. David, I'm on the 48th floor. All's clear here, Mike. Going on down. I get to 48 floor, 47. We keep going down. Finally, I get to the 45th floor, David. I'm on the 44th floor. This is where the Port Authority cafeteria is. Not stopping. So David was obviously doing better, and he kept going down. Why do I say what I did about David and doing that? Because David became a focal point for anyone within the sound of his voice who could hear him say, "43rd floor, all's clear, everything is good. He had to have helped 1000s of people stay focused and not panic going down the stairs, and I think that was so cool that he did that all the way down 42nd floor, all good. We kept going down the stairs. We met firefighters on the 30th floor. They wanted to escort me down, and I finally convinced them that I was capable of going down without them. And I did it by playing the sight card. I said, "Look, my friend David is here. He can see we're good, and the firefighters let us go. I didn't want them to escort me. First of all, they don't know how to work with a blind guy and do sighted guide. But second of all, I didn't want to break up their team because I knew that each of those people were carrying the equipment that they had to use to fight the fire. You couldn't store it somewhere. Where would you store it? Oh, the 34th floor. And what happens if a fire broke out on the 33rd floor, you couldn't get to it. You had to carry the equipment, so we kept going down the stairs. Finally, got to the first floor. David got there, and I was at floor two. And he said, "Hey, there are water sprinklers running. You're going to have to run through a waterfall or a down torrent of water to get out of the stairwell. Why was there all that water? Because it wanted to keep fire either in or out of the stairs, if fire was around. David ran through. Then I got to the bottom. Roselle stood there, and I picked up her harness and said, "Rosel, forward, hop up, which is a command to speed up. We went through this torrential downpour. It was a waterfall, and we came out the other side, soaking. David was there, and there were voices. Hey, don't go outside! No, no, don't go that way. Go this way. A PA system, a guy on a bullhorn. No, no, no! Don't go outside. Don't go to the outside. Go this way. What we didn't know is, if they had let people go out, they might have been right below where people were jumping. And so that was one of the reasons they didn't want anyone out. They wanted people to go through the complex and get out at the far side, as far away from where everything was occurring that they could. This guy comes up to us and he goes, "I'm with the FBI. I'll get you where you need to go. And of course, I'm sitting there with my warped sense of humor, going, "I'm sorry, I only talked to McGarrett, and I didn't do it. I'm innocent. I just thought that I didn't say any of it out loud. Anyway, he got us through out to the outside of Tower One. We passed now the empty Ben and Jerry's ice cream kiosk that was there. Darn didn't get a chance for a scoop. Kept going. Finally, went up an escalator and got outside into the sunshine outside of Tower. Well, of the whole complex, as far away from the towers as we could be, we got outside. Michael Hingson 43:44 We were told to leave the area, but David looked around and he said, "Mike, I see fire in Tower Two. And I said, "What are you talking about? There's fire in Tower Two, really? What's that all about? We didn't feel a thing going down. We were in our own little cocoon, our own little cave. We had no clue. Anyway, we were told to leave, so we went to Broadway. We walked across the plaza to Broadway, turn left, going now north on Broadway. There was a building on my left. Broadway was on my right. We crossed several streets, crossed Fulton Street, finally got to Vetsy Street. David said, "I want to stop because I can see the fire in Tower Two really clearly from here, I want to take some pictures, and I said, "Great, I'll try to call my wife. I got out my phone. David was taking pictures, which I have today. I tried to call Karen. I couldn't get through. Later, of course, we learned that people were saying goodbye to loved ones, and that was why the circuits were busy. I had just put my phone away, and a police officer, and while David was putting his camera away, and a police officer yelled out of here! It's coming down now. We heard this rumble that became this deafening roar. I describe it as kind of a combination of a freight train and a waterfall. You could hear glass breaking and tinkling, and metal crashing down, and then this white noise sound as Tower Two, 100 yards away from. Pancake down. Everyone turned and ran. David ran. He was gone. I literally lifted Roselle by the harness, turned her 180 degrees, and started running back the way we came. And the first thing I remember saying in my mind was, "God, I cannot believe that you got us out of a building just to have it fall on us. And as soon as I thought that, I heard in my head as clearly as you hear me now, a voice that said, "Don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. Who is God? Absolutely no question. Don't worry about what you can't control. Focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. And so I also had this incredible sense of peace and calm that came over me. That said, you're okay if you work together. We kept running. We got back to Fulton Street, turned right on Fulton Street, and ran about 25 yards. And suddenly we caught up to David, who had apparently gone the same way. And David suddenly realized that he had left us behind and he was going to come back, but we caught up to him first, and he apologized. I said, "David, don't worry about it. Let's just keep going. The building's coming down, you know. And we both just started to run with Roselle, and suddenly we were engulfed in all the dirt and debris and the dust cloud from Tower Two. It was so thick that David said he couldn't see his hand six inches in front of his face, and all I can tell you is that every breath I took, I felt dirt and debris and junk going down my throat into my stomach, and we knew we had to get out of that. So I started telling Roselle, "Go right, right. There was a building on our right side, and I wanted her to find the nearest opening if she could even hear me, see my hand signals, or whatever. And I was also listening for openings. Yes, I can hear when I pass an opening, and I and I can tell it's there and deal with it accordingly. Like during a time when you're running away from a collapsing building, run into it. Suddenly, I heard an opening on the right, and Roselle must have known what I wanted. She must have been able to see my hand signals or something because she turned right, she took one step, she stopped, and she would not move. Come on, Roselle, keep going. She wouldn't move. Come on, Roselle. Nope, wouldn't do it. And I realized, focus on running with Roselle, and the rest will take care of itself. So I stuck out a foot. Michael Hingson 47:13 I trailed a hand along a wall, and realized that we were at the top of a flight of stairs. Roselle had done exactly what she was supposed to do, and I knew what I was supposed to do if I wanted to get her to move. But before I did that, I gave her a big hug, good girl, and then I said, "Roselle, forward! That's the command. And we went down the stairs into an arcade area that was the entrance to the Fulton Street subway station. There were a few other people down there. Then a guy came up from the subway system and saw about eight or nine of us there. He introduced himself as Lou, an employee of the subway system, and he took us down to an employee locker room where we could sit down and and kind of hack and cough and get the dust out of our lungs. There was a water fountain and there were fans. We were there about 10 minutes. Then a police officer came, and he said, "You got to get out of here right now. The air's clear up above. You can't stay here. And so we followed him. Of course, he probably had already been told that Tower One was going to collapse. the The officials knew that each building was going to collapse probably about a half hour before it actually did. At least that was their presumption, and that's what I've been told. Anyway, we followed him back up the stairs, through the arcade, up the last two flights of stairs. We got outside. David looked around and he goes, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no Tower Two anymore. And I said, "What do you see? And he said, "All I see are pillars of smoke, hundreds of feet tall. We stood there for a moment, and then we just turned, and we kept walking. Now west on Fulton Street, we walked about 10 minutes, and we were in this little plaza area when we heard that freight train waterfall sound again, and we knew it must be our tower collapsing. We saw a little retaining wall David did, and we got behind it and ducked down, and we waited until everything stopped, and then we stood back up. And David looked around and he said, "Oh my God, Mike, there's no World Trade Center anymore. And I said, "What do you see? And he said, "I just see fingers of fire and flame, hundreds of feet tall. We see, I see pillars of smoke. It's gone. Are you sure? Yeah, it's gone. It's not there. We stood there a moment, then I tried to call my wife Karen again. That was kind of my first thought. I need to tell her we're okay. This time I did get through because clearly the circuits were were free. And after some tears on both sides of the phone, she is the one who told us how two aircraft had deliberately been hijacked and crashed into the towers, one into the Pentagon, and a fourth at that time was still missing over Pennsylvania. Who would have thought? We spent the rest of that day getting up toward Midtown Manhattan, and eventually I got to Penn Station, learned that the trains were running, and went back. Out to New Jersey, David wanted to go back up to be with his sister, who he who he was staying with. She lived on the Upper East Side, so I got on trains and I went back over toward New Jersey. I called Karen and told her what was going on, and a friend of ours, a friend that Karen had known since high school out in California, Tom Painter, was also living in New Jersey, he had come down to be with her, not even knowing at the time whether I was in the World Trade Center or working from home that day or whatever. But he drove her to the station in our accessible van, and as I came off the train, I heard the van show up. I went downstairs, climbed and went up the ramp into the van, and got to hug Karen about 7o'clock that night, for the first time since leaving home, we got home. Tom drove us home. We all went inside. I was going to take Roselle outside because she hadn't been out since like five that morning. Michael Hingson 50:53 Well, I take that back about six that morning, and I took her harness off. But before I could do anything else, she was off like a shot. She went to her toy box, found her favorite tug bone, and started playing tug of war with my retired guide dog Linny. Why? Because it was over for her. And I talked to the guide dog people later, and I said, "Will any of this affect her? And they said, "Was she threatened? Did anything hit her or injure her in any way, and I said no. They said then no. It was over for her because dogs don't do what if. It was over. It was done. She was fine. Lesson to be learned. Lesson you will learn more about if you buy our new book, Live Like a Guide Dog: True Stories from a Blind Man and His Guide his dogs about being brave, overcoming adversity, and walking in faith. That that book is available for pre-order, and I've been signing bookmarks all day. I still even have a few with me. But the point is, you can pre-order it, and and it's about something that I learned later. I thought about during the pandemic. I've talked a lot about escaping and not being afraid because I developed a mindset that said you know what to do, but what I've not done is to teach others how they can learn to recognize that fear is not something that needs to blind or overwhelm you. You can use fear as a very powerful tool to guide you and steer you in the right direction if you know how to control it, and live like a guide dog is all about that. So I hope that you'll all get that when it comes out in August. But again, you can pre-order it now if you go to michaelhinkston.com. There's a link there where you can go to a web page to get information and to go to a link where you can pre-order it. And like I said, I have some bookmarked with a QR code on it, and and I'm and I yes I am plugging the book, but I'm also saying, look, folks, the bottom line is we operate in so many ways with misconceptions about things. I've talked about blindness. Anybody could have been in the World Trade Center, and and a lot of people were. The reality is, though, if you learn what to do and how to prepare for situations in general, when it becomes something specific, you'll know what to do. People have asked a number of times, "Well, wasn't your guide dog trained to operate in an emergency like the World Trade Center? How are we going to do that? No, the dog isn't trained to do that. The guide dog's job is not to lead. Guide dogs do not lead blind people. Guide dogs' jobs are to make sure that we walk safe. It's my job to know where to go and how to get there to give the dog direction. The dog depends and relies on me to give it direction. The dog's job, as I said, is to make sure we walk safely. It's a team effort. We each have a job to do, and we develop a trusting relationship when we learn to trust each other and respect the job the other member of the team is doing, which is what it's all about. Which is what happens on any team, trust is all around us. Trust is under attack in so many ways from our politicians, and in so many ways. But the reality is, trust is all around us. I think we all trust that the roof isn't going to fall in on the church. I think that we trust that the PA system is going to continue to work, and so on. Trust is all around us. The difference between dogs and people is that dogs, while they do love unconditionally, do not trust unconditionally. But dogs are open to trust unless some incredibly traumatic thing has happened to them where they lose that ability. But dogs are open to trust, dogs want humans to give them direction to establish rules, and all too often with our pets and so on, we don't do that. We don't really develop the relationship that we should and can with them. Michael Hingson 54:54 If we would, we would have so much stronger bond and relationships with them. It would be. Amazing for for all of us, but the bottom line is that's the relationship that I get with each guide dog. That's the relationship I have with Alamo. He trusts that I am going to feed him before too awfully long. He trusts that you guys are going to buy books, so he'll have kibbles for me to feed him. Just saying, but but seriously, the the trust has to be earned with a dog or with people or whatever, and if you find that you you discover you can't trust someone, don't wish them ill will, forgive them and move on. So you don't trust them, but you know what you have, and you go off and make new friends and learn other trusting relationships that you can develop. Focus on running with Roselle; the rest will take care of itself. The reality is, we worry so much about so many things. We are always doing what if we create most of the fears that we face in our lives, and we Don't need to do that. If we would focus on just the things that we have some control over and leave the rest alone, well, we might want to be aware of them, but we don't have to worry about them. We don't have control over them. Trust and deal with the things that you have to deal with, and let the rest take care of itself. And that was what I learned on September 11th, listening to the voice of God, absolutely, and that is something that I pass on to all of you, and I think that's the most important thing that I can leave you with. Hi again, everyone. This is Mike Hingson. I hope that you found that speech to be helpful and relevant and interesting. I hope that you learn some things from it. From a personal standpoint, I hope that you learn that blindness isn't really the big problem that I face. The challenge that I face really comes from the fact that people who have eyesight tend to believe that blind people are not capable of doing much because they can't see. Wrong thing to believe. I'm not going to spend a lot of time on that because we did it during the speech, but I just wanted to thank you for being here today, for listening and watching this episode. I hope that you will also tune in for our episode on Tuesday, where I'm in conversation with Michelle Abraham on next Friday, the 11th of September, that you will tune in to hear the conversation with Bob Ellis, and then episode 475, which will occur on the 15th of September, where we will talk about lessons to be learned and and give you some things to hopefully take away that maybe you haven't thought about. Thanks very much for being here with us. I really very much appreciate all of your support. If any of you have any questions or want to reach out to me, you are welcome to do so. Please feel free to email me at speaker@michaelhinkson.com. That's s p e a k e r at m i c h a e l h i n g s o n.com speaker@michaelhingson.com hope to hear from you and as you gather I do speak I continue to speak publicly I've been a keynote speaker since September 11 if anybody knows of anyone that needs a keynote speaker or you can use us in events that you have please reach out to me at speaker@michaelhingson.com let's talk about it. Let's see how we can help. I'm always looking for ways to inspire, but also to teach and help. And I'd like to be part of your world in that regard. Thanks again for being here. Thanks for listening, and come back next time for another episode of Unstoppable Mindset.

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HR4 - Jones and Keefe are live from Fenway Park for the 24th annual WEEI/NESN Jimmy Fund Radio Telethon

Dale & Keefe

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 18, 2026 43:41

HR4 - Jones and Keefe continue on from Fenway Park at the 24th annual WEEI/NESN Jimmy Fund Radio Telethon. In this hour the guys are joined by: Hannah Waldon, age 20 from Marshfield, 26-year-old Aaidaliz Perez and Dr. Cristina Pozo-Kaderman.

Matthew 15:29-39: De Ja Vu All Over Again

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 12, 2026 54:38

Jesus continues His compassionate ministry in Galilee by teaching and healing great crowds. As they come to Him with great urgency, Jesus heals their disabilities. As the crowds glorify the God of Israel, Jesus tells the disciples His will of feeding the crowds. The disciples forget Jesus' recent miracle of feeding a large crowd, but their faltering faith does not prevent Jesus from accomplishing His will. He takes the initiative and multiplies the food with abundance for the sake of satisfying the great crowds, once again anticipating the gift of His Holy Supper. Rev. Andrew Belt, pastor at Christ Lutheran Church in Marshfield, WI, joins host Rev. Timothy Appel to study Matthew 15:29-39. To learn more about Christ Lutheran, visit christmarshfield.org. “The Reign of Heaven Stands Near” is a series on Sharper Iron that studies the Gospel according to St. Matthew. The first evangelist proclaims that God has fulfilled His Old Testament promises by sending Jesus to bring the reign of the heavens among us. As the Son of David, Jesus is the gracious King we need, and as the Son of Abraham, Jesus is the blessing to all the families of the earth. Sharper Iron, hosted by Rev. Timothy Appel, looks at the text of Holy Scripture both in its broad context and its narrow detail, all for the sake of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen for sinners. Two pastors engage with God's Word to sharpen not only their own faith and knowledge, but the faith and knowledge of all who listen. Pastor Appel serves at Faith Lutheran Church in Godfrey, IL. Learn more at flcgodfrey.org. Submit comments or questions to: listener@kfuo.org

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Cheeseball 500: A Wisconsin Summer Road Trip

wisconsin summer road trips marshfield central wisconsin

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 7, 2026 4:24

It's being called the ultimate cheese and meat road trip! Teri Barr talks with organizer Javin Krenn with United Process Piping in Marshfield. He shares why this first-of-its-kind event is important, and how it's meant to help you explore small, locally-owned Central Wisconsin businesses, collect cheese and meat along the way, and spend the time with your family, too. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tomatoes, re-seeding, Charlotte spuds and spraying.

The Gooden Life

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 31, 2026 18:11

Keith & Freya are back on the plot in Marshfield this week, surveying the desert like conditions this UK summer has delivered this year.Sunshine and drought conditions mean plenty of watering from cans, but it also means seeds are germinating in just a few days in the warm conditions. It's time to start fussing over your tomato crop if you're growing them. Water, but not too much. Feed, but not to much. Allow to crop, but not too much. Toms are the divas of the fruit and veg world , but a little fuss never hurt anyone......But don't over fuss....

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July WASDE, FTD Marshfield Clinic, Jerry Clark

MID-WEST FARM REPORT - EAU CLAIRE

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 14, 2026 50:27

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

clinic marshfield wasde jerry clark

Miss Wisconsin USA Talks Ag Plus Cow Comfort Tool Critical This Week

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 13, 2026 50:00

Technology is always bringing something new to production agriculture. Drones are a great example. This technology continues to be refined and innovated into multiple tasks on today's farm. Bob Bosold visits with Jeremy Jones from American Drone in Marshfield. He explains how new tools are always being added to what these machines can do. Dangerous heat this week across Wisconsin. Stu Muck says unlike other fronts, this one will stay dry and miserable for man and beast. It's board meeting time for Dairy Farmers of Wisconsin. Janet Clark, board chair and dairy farmer from Eldorado says that it's good when the board can pause and take a look back at what's been accomplished. Some of the highlights that Clark points to are all the personal interactions during June Dairy Month activities, and the success they've found with trade missions. Paid for by Dairy Farmers of Wisconsin. Miss Wisconsin USA is using agriculture as her platform for interaction with the public. Olivia Lulich is an agriculture instructor in Viroqua and the current Miss Wisconsin USA. Through her appearances and social media, she's keeping the conversations going. A new tool's available to try and help the state's dairy operators manage the heat this week. Chris Vagasky, Research Program Manager with WISCONET, the state's weather network, says the "Cow Comfort Index" should help. It takes several weather elements together to give farmers a "real feel" of what the animal is experiencing. It's customized by geography and available on the wisconet.wisc.edu website free of charge.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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New "Cattle Comfort" Tool Helps Dairy Operators Manage Heat & Humidity - Chris Vagasky

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 12, 2026 4:17

No one in Wisconsin enjoys the heat and humidity that seem to be circling back. Now, Wisconsin dairy operators have a new tool to help them establish the "real feel" of that weather on cattle. Chris Vagasky, Research Program Manager for Wisconet, says the state now has 79 weather stations dotting the state. Each generates real-time weather data that can give guidance on animal handling and care. Wisconsin is following models from other states and global systems, but uniquely creating tools specifically for the state. The "Cattle Comfort" tool available on the Wisconet website is the result of collaboration with dairy scientists in Wisconsin, and partnerships with dairy operations in Brillion, Darlington, De Pere, Durand, Marshfield, Montana, Rice Lake, and Wittenberg. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

wisconsin heat comfort tool helps manage montana dairy cattle operators darlington durand humidity wittenberg marshfield de pere rice lake brillion

Week 264: Hear From Marshfield grad, Chase Robinson....

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 2, 2026 30:00

This week hear from Marshfield grad, Chase Robinson on playing baseball at St. Mary's in Winona, plus more.....

robinson grad marshfield

Marshfield's Monday Ming Rave A Massive Hit

massive rave ming marshfield

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 16, 2026 0:50 Transcription Available

Willett RaveSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

6-16-2026 | Guest: “Pastor Ray LeBlanc” Topic: “Standing Up To Groomers in Marshfield, WI”

Wisconsin Christian News

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 16, 2026 60:14

Links from today’s broadcast: Find Ray LeBlanc: https://www.facebook.com/groups/789579057185182/ Ray Speaking at Marshfield City Counsel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXIqx9fI7WM …………………. You can join the studio audience by clicking on the ‘Join Live Studio Audience’ button at WCNTV.net as well as watched our archived video broadcasts. Subscribe to the Wisconsin Christian Newspaper by going to WisconsinChristianNews.com Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WisconsinChristianNews/

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Matthew 4:23-5:2: The Gospel of the Kingdom

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 12, 2026 54:09

Even as a transitional text, these few verses reveal a great deal of the character of Jesus' ministry. His teaching, proclaiming, and healing all bring His reign near as good news for sinners. Such ministry begins to draw crowds to Jesus from far and wide. Although not all the crowds come to saving faith in Christ, they still hear His teaching. As Jesus sits down to teach authoritatively, His disciples come to Him to listen to Him and receive His blessing. Rev. Andrew Belt, pastor at Christ Lutheran Church in Marshfield, WI, joins host Rev. Timothy Appel to study Matthew 4:23-5:2. To learn more about Christ Lutheran Church, visit christmarshfield.org. “The Reign of Heaven Stands Near” is a series on Sharper Iron that studies the Gospel according to St. Matthew. The first evangelist proclaims that God has fulfilled His Old Testament promises by sending Jesus to bring the reign of the heavens among us. As the Son of David, Jesus is the gracious King we need, and as the Son of Abraham, Jesus is the blessing to all the families of the earth. Sharper Iron, hosted by Rev. Timothy Appel, looks at the text of Holy Scripture both in its broad context and its narrow detail, all for the sake of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen for sinners. Two pastors engage with God's Word to sharpen not only their own faith and knowledge, but the faith and knowledge of all who listen. Pastor Appel serves at Faith Lutheran Church in Godfrey, IL. Learn more at flcgodfrey.org. Submit comments or questions to: listener@kfuo.org

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The Ming Dynasty In Marshfield To Have A Sold Out Monday Night Rave

sold rave monday night marshfield ming dynasty

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 8, 2026 0:52 Transcription Available

WBZ NewsRadio’s Jay Willett reports.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Report: Tick Inventory via Citizen Science (TICS) through the Marshfield Clinic Research Institute

WTAQ Ag on Demand

Play Episode Listen Later May 20, 2026 3:01

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

citizens clinic tick inventory research institute tics citizen science marshfield

The ROR Morning Show Full Podcast 5/19

Loren and Wally Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later May 19, 2026 29:37

(00:00 - 3:11) It's Tuesday! Bob is back; he had to get some tests done that required him to fast for 24hrs. We wanted to know what he was craving once he was allowed to eat. (3:11 - 10:34) Today's DM Disaster is from Kent. He has a prostatic leg and when he was in college he thought he would show a party trick. It was taking his fake leg off, but instead of putting back on after he took it off, he placed next to him and kept drinking. Well, he ended up losing it and had to buy a new one. It's been years since that happened, and he's still haunted by it. (10:34 - 14:32) Forget haunted houses . . . the scariest thing in America is hearing footsteps outside a bathroom with no lock. LBF had a brunch the other day and one of the guests had to use the bathroom and now she's freaking out because she has NO locks on any of her bathrooms and apparently this is the COLLAPSE OF SOCIETY!(14:32 - 17:37) Today's Supah Smaht player was Donna from Marshfield. Find out if they were Supah Smaht. (17:37 - 22:21) A 33-year-old woman named Ladan Richardson, who got divorced a little while ago, and had an interesting response when a judge asked her what she wanted in the final settlement. The one thing that stood out was her asking for the Netflix password. LBF is all on aboard with this request. (22:21 - 29:37) Self driving car Waymo is at it again. People in Atlanta are waking up to fleets of empty robot cars creeping through their neighborhood before sunrise like a deleted scene from The Terminator. Plus, Swatch Watches are making a huge comeback, and it's causing riots all over the world. All this and more on the ROR Morning Show with Bob and LBF Podcast. Find more great podcasts at bPodStudios.com…The Place To Be For Podcast Discovery! Follow us on our socialsInstagram - @bobandlbfFacebook - The ROR Morning ShowSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Week 256: Hear from Marshfield baseball coach John Southworth plus more...

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 23, 2026 30:00

Larry and Dick talk high school spring sports including an interview with Marshfield baseball coach John Southworth and they talk NFL Draft.....

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Genesis 40:1-23: Prison Dreams

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 3, 2026 56:32

While in prison, Joseph gains two fellow cellmates, Pharaoh's chief cupbearer and baker. Joseph takes seriously his vocation of caring for these men, particularly after they each have dreams that trouble them. Joseph tells the men that the interpretations belong to God and listens to each man in turn. The cupbearer's dream reveals that he will be restored to his position, while the baker's dream reveals that he will be executed. Three days later, these things came to pass, as Joseph had said. However, the cupbearer forgot what he had promised Joseph, and so Joseph remained in prison for two more years. Rev. Andrew Belt, pastor at Christ Lutheran Church in Marshfield, WI, joins host Rev. Timothy Appel to study Genesis 40:1-23. To learn more about Christ Lutheran, visit christmarshfield.org. “In the Beginning” is a series on Sharper Iron that studies Genesis. The first book of Moses sets the stage for God's entire story of salvation. As we learn the beginning of the story, God prepares us to receive the fulfillment of the story: Jesus Christ, the Offspring of the woman who has crushed our enemy's head. Sharper Iron, hosted by Rev. Timothy Appel, looks at the text of Holy Scripture both in its broad context and its narrow detail, all for the sake of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen for sinners. Two pastors engage with God's Word to sharpen not only their own faith and knowledge, but the faith and knowledge of all who listen. Submit comments or questions to: listener@kfuo.org

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Week 252: Hear from Marshfield high school track coach Ben Corcoran this week....

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Play Episode Listen Later Mar 26, 2026 30:00

Hear from Marshfield high school track coach Ben Corcoran plus more this week....

Billy's News

Matty in the Morning

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2026 2:15 Transcription Available

Here are the show notes:Today's episode covers a lot of ground, from a massive police search in Marshfield to a convicted kidnapper's sentencing. We're also talking about a tragic plane crash in New York, where a crucial piece of equipment might have prevented the collision. Plus, we're looking at a new development in the world of air travel - United Airlines is rolling out new passenger seats that turn into couches. And in politics, the White House pitches a plan to split ICE from the Homeland Security funding bill. We'll also touch on the latest news from the sports world and more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Mid Day Report: Wednesday, March 25, 2026

The Loop

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 25, 2026 7:08 Transcription Available

The MBTA increases service on several bus routes, Gov. Maura Healey discusses safety preps ahead of the World Cup games, and a missing Marshfield kid found safe. Stay in "The Loop" with WBZ NewsRadio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Mid Day Report: Saturday, March 21, 2026

The Loop

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2026 6:14 Transcription Available

President Trump says U.S. almost done with objectives in Iran, officials say Iran unsuccessfully targeted a British Indian ocean island with ballistic missiles, and a Marshfield man is accused of putting a hidden camera in library bathroom. Stay in "The Loop" with WBZ NewsRadio.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Connecting the Diocese

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2026 59:43

Called & Gifted Workshop + 5th Sunday of Lent Reflection This week on Connecting the Diocese, Father Sam Martin interviews Ann Lankford, Director of the Office of Catechesis and Evangelization for the Diocese of La Crosse, about the upcoming Called & Gifted workshop (March 21, Saturday, at Our Lady of Peace in Marshfield) sponsored by […]

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Trish Marsh, Marshfield Lady Jays Basketball

Around The Ozarks Sports Scene

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 12, 2026 38:12

Marshfield’s Lady Jays are chasing another championship, and the woman leading the charge knows the program as well as anyone. Trish Marsh joins Around the Ozarks Sports Scene to talk about returning to her alma mater, guiding a team that has sat atop the state rankings all season, and pursuing a state title with one of the Ozarks’ most tradition-rich programs. Host Scott Puryear also looks back at Marsh’s playing days in the 1980s, when she helped build the very tradition she now carries forward from the sideline. Thanks to our sponsor, Colton's Steak House, Deadeye Gun & Pawn, and Thompson Sales! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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MIAA Hockey Tourney Favorites and Sleepers

New England Hockey Journalâ€™s RinkWise

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 25, 2026 59:38

Evan Marinofsky and Patrick Donnelly focus on Massachusetts postseason hockey. They review MIAA boys Division 1 seeding (Catholic Memorial No. 1, Xaverian No. 2, St. John's Prep No. 3, Arlington No. 4) and discuss potential sleepers including Reading, Wachusett, Framingham, Marshfield, Weymouth and a deep Pope Francis run, with Evan picking CM over Pope Francis in the final. They then break down MIAA girls Division 1 depth and Pat's bracket picks (Bishop Fenwick over NDA; Methuen/Tewksbury reaching the final quadrant), plus Division 2 picks highlighting Westwood, Milton, Duxbury and King Philip with Pat selecting Milton to win. The show shifts to boys prep, citing Salisbury's dominant win over Avon and changes in the Elite 8 picture, plus Avon's six-game skid. Girls prep rankings change significantly, with Nobles rising to No. 1, Loomis to No. 2, Dexter moving up, and St. Paul's surging after beating Exeter. In "Overtime," they discuss potential future Russian Olympic participation, the impact of the U.S. women's gold on women's hockey and the PWHL, and where the men's win ranks historically (both place it behind 1980). Topics 02:15 MIAA Boys D-1 Bracket 04:27 Boys D-1 Sleepers Picks 08:00 Why CM Wins D-1 11:10 Girls D-1 Wide Open 13:35 Girls D-1 Predictions 19:41 Girls D-2 Bracket Picks 26:09 Bracket Challenge Idea 26:46 Boys Prep Salisbury Surge 29:36 Avon Old Farms Slump 31:49 Avon Slump Concerns 33:12 Elite 8 Projections 35:14 Bubble Teams Watch List 39:12 Girls Rankings Shakeup 39:44 Nobles New No. 1 43:21 Loomis Surge Analysis 45:25 Dexter And St. Pauls 48:41 Top Ten Newcomers 50:43 Elite 8 Seeding Outlook 53:26 "Overtime" Olympic Questions 56:41 Women's Gold Impact 59:33 Men's Gold Memories 01:05:01 Wrap And Signoff

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The Struggle Is Real

Ashlee and the New JAM'N Morning Show

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 24, 2026 19:38 Transcription Available

This is a first, Ashlee does the show from Marshfield and talks about her experience with the Blizzard of 2026See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Genesis 18:1-15: Nothing Is Impossible for Abraham's Visitors

Cold Brew Podcast - Craft Beer Reviews & News

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 16, 2026 53:42

When three visitors come to Abraham's tent, he quickly shows them joyful and overflowing hospitality. These three are no ordinary visitors; this is the LORD and His angels who have come. As they eat the meal Abraham has served, the LORD serves Abraham in an even greater way. He promises that in about a year's time, He will give Abraham the promised child through Sarah. Her laughter in the tent is misplaced; no promise of the LORD's is too great for Him to keep. Rev. Andrew Belt, pastor at Christ Lutheran Church in Marshfield, WI, joins host Rev. Timothy Appel to study Genesis 18:1-15. To learn more about Christ Lutheran, visit christmarshfield.org. “In the Beginning” is a series on Sharper Iron that studies Genesis. The first book of Moses sets the stage for God's entire story of salvation. As we learn the beginning of the story, God prepares us to receive the fulfillment of the story: Jesus Christ, the Offspring of the woman who has crushed our enemy's head. Sharper Iron, hosted by Rev. Timothy Appel, looks at the text of Holy Scripture both in its broad context and its narrow detail, all for the sake of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen for sinners. Two pastors engage with God's Word to sharpen not only their own faith and knowledge, but the faith and knowledge of all who listen. Submit comments or questions to: listener@kfuo.org

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Beer Bingo Olympics, Coaches Tease

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 13, 2026 60:54

Greg and Sorcerer Chromatic drink and review beers (3:27) from Crooked Tooth Brewing (Tucson, AZ) and Spoetzl Brewing (Shiner, TX). In our Beer News (10:27), we chat about Laughing Monk's (San Francisco, CA) newest location in the South Bay. We talk about Stellwagen Beer Company's (Marshfield, MA) new limited beer release. And finally, we talk about a beer bingo game for the 2026 Winter Olympics. For our Cöld Brüe List (24:05), Sorcerer Chromatic gives us a preview of next season's new NFL coaches. We rate our beers on Untappd (51:38). In our Drunken Shenanigans, we discuss Fallout season finale.

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Week 247: Hear from Marshfield basketball standout, Valin Ramberg this week...

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Play Episode Listen Later Feb 12, 2026 30:00

Larry and Dick are talking high school sports plus hear from Marshfield basketball standout, Valin Ramberg....

Three Bigfoot Cross a Road in Washington — Then It Gets Darker

Bigfoot Society

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 4, 2026 60:29 Transcription Available

In this episode, we explore a chilling series of firsthand Bigfoot encounters that stretch across the American landscape, beginning with a haunting road crossing in the remote hills east of Tacoma and Olympia, Washington. What starts as a late-night drive turns into a life-altering moment when three towering figures step into the headlights—then calmly look back.From there, the stories grow even darker and more unsettling. We travel to the high desert canyons of the Navajo Nation near Gallup, New Mexico, where late-night screams echo through the mountains and a massive black figure is seen crawling, standing, and watching from the darkness. We journey north to the rugged Blue Mountains near Blanding, Utah, where a Sasquatch rips open a teepee during a family hunting trip. We return to a known hotspot near Mena, Arkansas, just miles from Board Camp Crystal Mine, and hear updates from a witness drawn back to the same remote cabin where strange activity first began.The episode continues through the forests of southeastern New Mexico, the Ozarks near Marshfield, Missouri, and the pine-covered backroads of East Texas, where a family recounts terrifying encounters passed down through generations.

There Is No Shortage Of Winter Golfing Options In Marshfield

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Play Episode Listen Later Jan 12, 2026 0:50 Transcription Available

WBZ NewsRadio's Jared Brosnan reports.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jack Benny – From March Field, CA. ep429, 420111

Retro Radio Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 11, 2026

Don Wilson introduces the eminent authority on aviation and flying, Jack Benny. Jack brags to the soldiers at Marshfield about his part in inventing the airplane. Mary arrives to tease…

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Marshfield Microbrewery Hits It Big With 'Love The Drake' Lager

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Play Episode Listen Later Jan 7, 2026 0:49 Transcription Available

Jim Mackay LagerSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The War of Independence

Nightside With Dan Rea

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 1, 2026 40:05 Transcription Available

Bradley Jay Filled In On NightSide with Dan Rea:The American Revolution was an eight-year battle, fought primarily in Lexington, Concord, and Boston. However, many outlying towns in Massachusetts played a vital role during the early conflict. Framingham, Springfield, Marshfield, and Great Barrington provided manpower and resources which ultimately led to victory. Learn more as Bradley talked with Bob Allison, Professor of History at Suffolk University. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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257 - Not-for-Profit Highlights: Jim Bunnell of the Boys & Girls Club of Marshfield

Elements of Stiles

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 19, 2025 41:56

Mark revisits an earlier conversation with Jim Bunnell, CEO of the Boys & Girls Club of Marshfield, reflecting on the essential role community organizations play in supporting young people. Together, they explore how the Club serves as a vital “third place” for youth, the impact of social media on social development, and why creating safe, engaging, and relationship-focused environments—especially during after-school hours—helps kids build character, confidence, and long-term connections that extend well beyond the Club's walls. Learn more and volunteer through their website or call 781-834-2582! Affiliate Links: Unleashing the Power of Respect: The I-M Approach by Joseph Shrand, MD This episode is brought to you in part by SecuriTitle, a fractional paralegal service assisting with all things real estate in Massachusetts and New Hampshire. Stay connected with the Joze.ai team on LinkedIn! Interested in recording your podcast at 95.9 WATD? Email clarissaromero7@gmail.com

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Assessing Cheese Market, Bird Flu Impact & Grain Outlook

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 16, 2025 49:50

The U.S. dairy industry is experiencing lower-than-usual commodity cheese prices, but Kim Heiman of Nasonville Dairy in Marshfield is betting on long-term growth driven by consumer demand for protein and significant industry investment. Higher-than-average temperatures mid-week may bring some precipitation, only to freeze later, says ag meteorologist Stu Muck. Grace Atherton with the Wisconsin Cheese Makers Association emphasizes that pasteurization effectively inactivates the bird flu virus, ensuring that commercially sold milk and cheese remain safe for consumption. Dairy processors are prioritizing food and employee safety with strict procedures. The Farmer Bridge Assistance Program has a deadline this week. Richard Fordyce, USDA Undersecretary for Farm Production and Conservation, says the first thing farmers need to do is submit an acreage report by Dec. 19. Market advisor John Heinberg discussed the minimal market reaction to Wisconsin's first dairy cattle bird flu case, while noting that grain markets are entering a seasonal window that typically offers price support and rally opportunities for corn and soybean farmers. He emphasized that current rallies should be used to protect against downward pressure ahead of the South American crop forecast.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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1 Thessalonians 4:9-12: Brothers Work Quietly with Love

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 10, 2025 53:25

St. Paul commends the Thessalonians to continued brotherly love for each other, as they have already been taught through the Word of God. Such love should be expressed more and more not only in their local congregation, but throughout their region. In so doing, the Christian goal is not pride, but rather quiet and diligent work in service of the neighbor. This both follows the example that Paul set and gives a truthful witness to those who are outside the church. Rev. Andrew Belt, pastor at Christ Lutheran Church in Marshfield, WI, joins host Rev. Timothy Appel to study 1 Thessalonians 4:9-12. To learn more about Christ Lutheran Church, visit christmarshfield.org. “Yearning for the Day of Christ's Returning” is a mini-series on Sharper Iron that studies St. Paul's two epistles to the Thessalonians. Although Paul's time in Thessalonica was brief, he had great affection for the Christians there. His two letters to the Thessalonians show us the joy that God gives us together in the Church and encourage us to live faithfully in expectation of Jesus' coming on the Last Day. Sharper Iron, hosted by Rev. Timothy Appel, looks at the text of Holy Scripture both in its broad context and its narrow detail, all for the sake of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen for sinners. Two pastors engage with God's Word to sharpen not only their own faith and knowledge, but the faith and knowledge of all who listen. Submit comments or questions to: listener@kfuo.org

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USDA Announces Farmer Bridge Assistance But Market Doesn't React - Heinberg

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 9, 2025 50:00

Wisconsin hemp growers are facing going out of business if state leaders don't take action to protect them. Part of the comprehensive compromise bill that got the federal government open again contained language that would shut down the nation's hemp industry by this time next year. State Senator Pat Testin recognizes the value in the industry and has crafted legislation that would, hopefully, allow the growers and manufacturers to continue. Pam Jahnke finds out about those efforts, and his recent meeting with WI Ag Secretary, Randy Romanski, over proposed fee increases that would impact the state's livestock industry. Winter weather advisory out for most of Wisconsin beginning this afternoon. Stu Muck explains what the next system is bringing in and what we should expect. Dairy is struggling and it's an odd time of the year for that statement to be true. Stephanie Hoff talks with Kim Heiman, manager at Nasonville Dairy in Marshfield. Nasonville focuses a lot of attention on "commodity cheese" which can be marketed through the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. He explains how that market's been impacted and what 2026 quarter one looks like. USDA announced a $12 billion Farmer Bridge Assistance program on Monday. Pam Jahnke explains the released details and what WI farms will qualify for payments. She also announces the election results from the 106th annual business meeting of the WI Farm Bureau Federation. Brad Olsen has been re-elected WFBF President, and Brian Preder has been elected Rural Mutual Insurance President. Markets are flat in reaction to the USDA aid announced yesterday. John Heinberg, market advisor with Total Farm Marketing in West Bend joins Pam Jahnke to discuss. He also notes that today we'll get the December World Ag Supply report. Although not usually a newsmaker - traders may be looking for information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Cheesemaker Responds To Lower Prices

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Play Episode Listen Later Dec 5, 2025 8:51

The U.S. dairy industry is experiencing lower-than-usual commodity cheese prices, but one producer is betting on long-term growth driven by consumer demand for protein and significant industry investment. The current market is seeing prices dip despite the typical holiday season rally. Kim Heiman of Nasonville Dairy in Marshfield says the effect was exacerbated by the government shutdown, when the commodity cheese trade didn't have market transparency. "What happens is that commodity cheese, it's a very high-quality cheese, and it's generally a colored cheddar, and it's produced at large quantities, and it's marketed through the Chicago Mercantile Exchange at large volumes," Heiman tells Mid-West Farm Report. "When the government shutdown was on, of course, there was no commodity facts coming out of how much cheese was in storage or how much cheese was being processed."See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Advice Line with Bill Creelman of Spindrift

How I Built This with Guy Raz

Play Episode Listen Later Nov 27, 2025 48:59

Bill Creelman, CEO and founder of Spindrift, joins Guy on the Advice Line to answer questions from three early-stage entrepreneurs. Plus, Bill and Guy talk about the importance of solving one problem at a time. First, we hear from Josh in West Hollywood, California - a pickle beer maker - who's wondering whether to drop his home-made brine to save money by using a manufactured flavor instead. Then Zac in Marshfield, Massachusetts, is trying to figure out how to get marketing help for his Hawaiian themed Flannel shirt company. And Jean Pierre in Portland is wondering about the best way to get his Kombucha business back on track. Thank you to the founders of Donna's Pickle Beer, Kona Brand and Soma Kombucha. If you'd like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you'd like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.And be sure to listen to Spindrift's Founding Story as told by Bill on the show in 2020.This episode was produced by Kerry Thompson with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce. Our audio engineer was Kwesi Lee.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Episode 381 – Unstoppable Zuzu: Keeping It's a Wonderful Life Alive

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 21, 2025 68:42

In this episode of Unstoppable Mindset, Michael Hingson welcomes Karolyn Grimes, best known for her unforgettable role as Zuzu Bailey in Frank Capra's timeless classic It's a Wonderful Life. At 85, Karolyn brings not just cherished memories from Hollywood's Golden Age but profound lessons in faith, resilience, and gratitude that still inspire today. She shares vivid behind-the-scenes stories of working with Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant, John Wayne, and Maureen O'Hara—moments that shaped her life long after the cameras stopped rolling. From learning her lines at six years old to celebrating a surprise birthday on the set of Rio Grande, Karolyn offers a heartfelt glimpse into the wonder and warmth of old Hollywood. But her story reaches far beyond fame. After losing both parents by age fifteen and later enduring the heartbreak of losing her husband and son, Karolyn rediscovered purpose through the enduring message of It's a Wonderful Life. Today, she travels to Seneca Falls, New York—the real-life Bedford Falls—attends festivals, supports the Zuzu House foundation, and co-hosts the Zuzu All Grown Up podcast, continuing to spread the film's message of hope. Michael and Karolyn also share exciting plans for a Richard Diamond, Private Detective radio drama at next year's REPS showcase. Filled with nostalgia, laughter, and heart, this episode reminds us that no matter the season—or the challenges— “It truly is a wonderful life.” Highlights: 01:24 – Hear how Karolyn's early music and elocution lessons opened doors to a Hollywood career at just six years old. 07:50 – Discover how losing both parents by age fifteen changed her path and led her to a quieter life in Missouri. 14:51 – Learn what it was like to work under Frank Capra's direction and how he brought out the best in young actors. 19:12 – Feel the kindness of Jimmy Stewart as Karolyn recalls a moment when he turned a mistake into encouragement. 27:20 – Relive her birthday surprise on the set of Rio Grande with John Wayne and a cake she'll never forget. 31:29 – Get a candid glimpse of Maureen O'Hara's fiery personality and how it lit up the screen. 47:23 – Walk with Karolyn through Seneca Falls, New York—the real-life inspiration for Bedford Falls—and its annual It's a Wonderful Life festival. 58:27 – See how she keeps the film's spirit alive today through public appearances, the Zuzu House foundation, and her Zuzu All Grown Up podcast. About the Guest: Karolyn Grimes is an American actress best remembered for her role as Zuzu Bailey in Frank Capra's timeless film It's a Wonderful Life (1946), where she delivered one of cinema's most cherished lines: “Every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings.” Born in Hollywood, California, in 1940, Grimes began acting as an infant and appeared in 16 films during her childhood, including The Bishop's Wife (1947). Her early career placed her alongside Hollywood legends like James Stewart, Donna Reed, Loretta Young, and David Niven. She later earned honors such as a star on the Missouri Walk of Fame and the Edwin P. Hubble Medal of Initiative for her contributions to film and culture. Grimes' personal story is one of remarkable endurance. Orphaned by age 15, she was sent from Hollywood to rural Missouri to live with strict relatives, yet she persevered and eventually became a medical technologist. Life brought both love and heartbreak—two marriages, seven children, and the tragic loss of her youngest son and husband. In the 1980s, renewed popularity of It's a Wonderful Life reconnected her with fans and co-stars, inspiring her to embrace the film's message of hope. Today, she travels widely to share her memories of the movie, appears annually at the Seneca Falls celebration that inspired Bedford Falls, and continues to spread its enduring message that every life truly matters. Ways to connect with Karolyn: podcast site, www.zuzunetwork.com Facebook page Karolyn Grimes, www.zuzu.net About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, a gracious hello to you, wherever you happen to be today, I am your host, Mike or Michael. I don't really care which hingson and you are listening to or watching unstoppable mindset. Today, we get a chance to chat with someone who, well, you may or may not know who she is, you will probably by the time we're done, because I'm going to give you a clue. Probably one of the most famous lines that she ever spoke was, whenever a bell rings, an angel gets its wings. And you are right, if you guessed it, you get to meet Zuzu or Karolyn Grimes. Today, I met Karolyn a few years ago when we were both involved in doing recreations of old radio shows with the radio enthusiasts of Puget Sound, and we have had the opportunity to chat and do things together like other recreations ever since. I'm going to miss, unfortunately, the one in September, because I'm going to be off elsewhere in Texas doing a speech. But what do you do anyway? Karolyn or Zuzu, whichever you prefer, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here. Karolyn Grimes ** 02:35 I'm so disappointed I don't get to see your dog. Michael Hingson ** 02:40 Oh, next time. Okay, see we and you know that's the thing Carolyn is, just like everyone else, it's always all about the dog. Forget me. That's okay. It's okay. He loves it. Karolyn Grimes ** 02:58 Well, I'm sorry you're not coming. Because you know what, I really am going to do a fantastic part that I love, and that's playing Loretta Young's part in the bishop's wife, the bishop's wife, right? Yes, and you're going to miss it. Well, I Michael Hingson ** 03:14 will probably try to at least listen on the internet and and hear it. I think that'll be fun. It's a it's a great part. Well, you were in the bishop's wife originally, weren't you? Karolyn Grimes ** 03:25 Yes, I was, who did? Who did you play? I played Little Debbie, who was David Nevin and Loretta Young's little girl, and Cary Grant was an angel who came down to straighten my dad out, Michael Hingson ** 03:43 and at the end he straightened him out, but there was never any memory of him being there. Was there. Karolyn Grimes ** 03:50 That's right, he was erased, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 03:56 oh, you know, it's all about doing it, and not about him. So it's okay. I think I thought Cary Grant did a great job. I really always was wonderful, wonderful. What was he like to work with? And what was David Nevin like to work with, much less Loretta Young? Karolyn Grimes ** 04:13 Well, at the beginning of the movie, they told me not to go near David Nevin. Don't bother him. So I never did. I just had the feeling he didn't like kids or something, I don't know. But Loretta Young was cordial and nice, but she pretty much sat in her chair and studied the script most of the time, so I didn't really get to visit with her all that much, but boy, Cary Grant was hands on. Oh, he was great. He there was a lot of snow in the movie, and there was an ice skating scene, and there was actually an ice rink on our stage. So every day at lunch, he would come and get me and. And he pulled me around on a sled while he practiced ice skating. And that was so much fun, Michael Hingson ** 05:08 cool. And that was all in Hollywood, right? 05:11 Oh, yes, Michael Hingson ** 05:15 I, I always found it interesting. We went to see the Rockettes a couple of times at Radio City Music Hall in New York. And it was interesting to see their, quote, ice skating rink, which was, was a very smooth floor and and they could raise it and lower it and all sorts of things. It was. It was kind of fascinating to actually know about that. And I actually got a chance to go look at it was kind of pretty interesting. Karolyn Grimes ** 05:45 Can you imagine, they actually made a skating rink on stage. I mean, you know, yeah, before miracles. Michael Hingson ** 05:55 Well, tell us a little bit about, kind of, maybe the early Karolyn growing up, and, you know, how things got started and and what you did a little bit? Well, my Karolyn Grimes ** 06:04 mother gave me all kinds of lessons. I was an only child, and so when I was about, I guess, three, she started me on the piano, the violin, dancing, which never took singing, and even elocution, diction, everything I had lessons coming out my eyeballs and I played the violin and piano. Michael Hingson ** 06:30 So did you ever? Did you ever compete with Jack Benny playing the violin? Not hardly just checking. Karolyn Grimes ** 06:37 I did win a scholarship, though, to go to college on my violin when I was in high school. So, you know, I I played it for a long time, but I didn't play the piano, just I stuck with the violin and I did singing. I did a lot of vocal stuff when I got older, but when I was little, she gave me all these lessons and and I can remember saying, Well, I really don't want to go to school today if I stay at home and I practice my elocution, or I practice this, or practice my piano or whatever, well, then could I stay home and she let me stay home from school so I would practice. Michael Hingson ** 07:21 Yeah. Did you ever Karolyn Grimes ** 07:23 go ahead? That's fine, that's all. Michael Hingson ** 07:26 Did you ever ask her or ever learn why she was so adamant that you took all these kinds of lessons when you were young and so on, as opposed to just going to school and so on. Well, Karolyn Grimes ** 07:38 unfortunately, she started getting sick when I was eight years old. And, you know, I was too young to think about asking questions like that, you know. And then she died when I was 14. So that was kind of the end of my career, for sure. Michael Hingson ** 07:55 Well, yeah, and sort of it was but, but you never really did learn why she was so so steadfast in her beliefs that you had to take all of those lessons. Karolyn Grimes ** 08:07 I had no idea, because when she started getting sick, she had early onset Alzheimer's, and so, you know she wasn't, you couldn't communicate. Michael Hingson ** 08:18 Really, yeah, yeah. And it was only when you were old enough that that started. So, yeah, you really couldn't get a lot of information and do a lot of communicating. I understand that. No, and you didn't have much time after that to really talk to your father about it either. No, I didn't. Karolyn Grimes ** 08:41 He died a year after she did. And I was 15, and the court in Hollywood shipped me to a little town in Missouri. I think there were 700 people in the town, or something like that. Yeah. So it's quite a culture shock, but it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Get me out of Hollywood was great. Michael Hingson ** 09:01 So what did you do then? So you were now 15, and they sent you off to Missouri. Why Missouri? Karolyn Grimes ** 09:09 Well, those were the only people who volunteered to take me. I had a lot of people in LA, where I lived, who would have taken me, but my father didn't leave a will. So when I asked the judge, I said, Do I have any say at all about who I go to live with? And he said, whatever you want is like a drop in the bucket. So needless to say, my mean aunt and uncle took me back to Missouri, in a little town, but it was like, I say the best thing ever happened to me, because they're real people. They weren't phony. They were they were serious and and they were loving and kind, and they realized I was in a. Horrible home situation. So they really my teachers and merchants, everybody knew, and they really made up for that. They made my life livable and that I will never forget it, and I will always love that town, because Michael Hingson ** 10:19 what town was it? Osceola, Karolyn Grimes ** 10:21 Missouri. Oh, Osceola. Okay, I've heard of it. 800 people in there or something. Michael Hingson ** 10:27 You said they were your mean aunt and uncle. Why did you Why do you call them mean? Karolyn Grimes ** 10:34 My uncle wasn't mean, but he was beaten down by his wife. She would her. Her best ploy would be to if I did something wrong, she would punish other people. And that was worse than punishing you. Yeah. So it was very, very hard to not do something wrong, because I kind of seemed like I did all the time. Michael Hingson ** 11:05 Yeah, you didn't know what the rules were. No, yeah, that that made it, made it very tough. So what did you do once you went back there? I assume you went to, you finished school. Karolyn Grimes ** 11:21 Yes, I finished school, and then I went to college. Where did you go? Well, it was called Central Missouri State at that time, and it was the home of the mules. And of course, my major was music, so that was what I did, mostly with my life, but I ended up going into science and I became medical technologist. Michael Hingson ** 11:46 Uh huh, well, the mules, so you majored in music. Did you get any advanced degree or just get a bachelor's? Karolyn Grimes ** 11:57 No, okay, I changed everything and decided that I need to make money instead, to survive, Michael Hingson ** 12:05 yeah, you got to do some of that kind of stuff. Yeah, you do. It's one of those, those things that happens. So what did you do after college? Karolyn Grimes ** 12:13 I got a job working for medical office in was kind of a clinic in Kansas City, Missouri, okay? And I spent probably 15 years there, maybe, maybe more I remember for sure, and that's, that's what I did. Then after that, I retired and raised a bunch of kids. Michael Hingson ** 12:42 Well, that's a worthwhile endeavor. 12:46 It's stressful. Michael Hingson ** 12:50 Well, you know, but as long as they don't call you mean, then that probably counts for something. Karolyn Grimes ** 12:56 Yeah, they didn't call me mean. Well, Michael Hingson ** 13:00 there you are. So you you did all of your your acting and movies and so on, kind of at a younger age, you didn't go back into doing any of that. No, I Karolyn Grimes ** 13:11 didn't, but I did get active in the theater scene in the Kansas City area. So I did quite a few plays, and I had a really good time doing that. Okay, only problem with that is you have to memorize so much. Michael Hingson ** 13:27 Yeah, you can't use cue cards and you can't use a script, Karolyn Grimes ** 13:30 yeah? So I tried to work and do that, yeah, it's kind of tough, but I did. I the last one I did. I think I was 40 something, but it was fun. I loved it. Michael Hingson ** 13:44 So what, what kind of maybe famous plays were you in? Karolyn Grimes ** 13:49 Not famous? They were small ones. And honestly, I can't even remember what they were. I it's in my mind, one, the last one was musical, and it was kind of a Western. I can't remember what it was to save my soul, but that's, that's privilege of getting old. Michael Hingson ** 14:09 Yeah, you never know. You might remember one of these days, Karolyn Grimes ** 14:14 yeah, oh, I will, I'm sure, probably about an hour from now. Michael Hingson ** 14:18 Yeah. Well, so going back earlier, what was the first movie you were in Karolyn Grimes ** 14:27 that night with you, and that starred, Oh, see, there goes. My mind again. It was an opera singer. Can't think of Suzanne, York, oh, okay, and it had Irene Ryan, who was in the hillbillies. She was a maid. And it was, it was a Christmas scene, or it was section of the movie where I was one of. Five orphans that were sent. This opera singer wanted us to give us a Christmas night. We were from an orphanage, and so she had us come. We were going to spend the night, and she had presents for us and all that sort of thing. And the first thing I did was break an ornament on the Christmas tree. Oh, dear. Ah, so the kids got mad at me, because they knew we were going to be sent back to the orphanage. But anyway, in the end, she held me on her lap and sang a lullaby to me, and I will always remember that. Michael Hingson ** 15:39 Yeah, you mentioned Irene, Ryan, granny, which was, yeah, she was in. She played a maid. What a character she 15:46 was. She was a maid. Michael Hingson ** 15:50 Then what did you do after that movie? How old were you for that movie? I was four. You're four. So you do remember it sort of, yeah. Karolyn Grimes ** 16:01 Just don't remember names particularly. I mean, yeah, but you were really funny about it that the there was one agent, pretty much, that had all the kids in her stable that worked in the movies back then. It was an easy thing, and she had Jimmy Hawkins, who was Tommy, and it's a wonderful life. And she also had his older brother, and his older brother was in that particular movie with me, so it was kind of a family affair all every time you went to an audition or an interview you saw the same kids over and over. Michael Hingson ** 16:49 Well, how did you end up then being in It's a Wonderful Life. What? What did they what does it think and decide that you were the person for Karolyn Grimes ** 17:01 it. Well, nothing really special. You know, I went on the interview back in the day. They didn't have what they do today. They had interviews where you went, and you had a one on one situation. Maybe five or six us girls would go to the interview, and then they'd bring another batch in, and that's kind of how it went. And most of us, as I say, had the same agent, so we, my mother took me to the interview, to the and it's like, it's not like an audition, it's an interview, and you actually go in and talk to casting director. And you know, you know, do what they tell you to do. So in this particular interview, there was a little girl who accidentally spilled some coffee on my dress. Her mother's coffee on my dress, because so back then, we all wore dresses, and I just didn't think a thing about it didn't bother me to have a dirty dress. I just I went in and did my interview. When I went in there, I meant Frank Capra was in, ah, and he interviewed and and cast every single person in that film, even the extras. That's how precise he was. But I went in there, and I remember he asked me how I would look, how I would act if I lost my dog and he died. I gave him my spiel, all with a dirty dress, but didn't bother me a bit. Came out, and then when we were leaving, I heard my mother mentioned to one of the other mothers that she felt like that, that girl's mother had had her spilling on purpose so they would intimidate me. But I didn't know it. I didn't realize it, and didn't bother me a bit. Michael Hingson ** 19:11 What did you say when Frank Capra asked me that question? Do you remember? Karolyn Grimes ** 19:16 Well, I I didn't say anything. Michael Hingson ** 19:20 I just looked, no, I mean, about the dog? Karolyn Grimes ** 19:22 Well, I just looked, oh, you know, yeah, squeezed up kind of teared, and was unhand picked. That was, you know, there was no line involved. It was just that, well, she must ask the other lines, but I don't remember, I just remember that. Michael Hingson ** 19:46 So what was he like to work with? Karolyn Grimes ** 19:49 He was wonderful, absolutely wonderful. He would get down on his knees so that he could communicate with those kids. And I. I thought that was really great, and I'm sure you got a lot more out of us by doing that. Rather than looking down on us and telling us what he wanted Michael Hingson ** 20:09 us to do, he made you feel like a part of it all. Karolyn Grimes ** 20:13 Yes, he did. He gave us a lot of power that way. Michael Hingson ** 20:17 Yeah, and what was it like working with Jimmy Stewart and Donna Reed. Karolyn Grimes ** 20:22 Well, you know, I didn't have any scenes with Donna Reed, except that being the movie, that's true. I didn't have any interaction with her. I had no lines. I don't even remember Donna Reed, but he was my focal point. Jimmy Stewart was fabulous. He was kind, considerate, and I fluffed a line in the pedal scene, and he said that, that's all right, Carolyn, you'll get it right next time. And it was things like that, you know, that made a difference between, if you messed up online, where they would get aggravated with you, and then you probably mess it up again. But he did the right thing. He made me not feel bad about it, and encouraged me to do it again. Michael Hingson ** 21:17 It's, it's interesting, and it, it's a great lesson to you know, to point out that when when people help empower and they aren't negative and are encouraging no matter what you're doing, that counts for a lot. And I I find that when I encounter people who just decide they're going to be mean because they got to boss you around and do all sorts of obnoxious things to try to intimidate you and so on. In the long run, that is just so unproductive, it seems to me. Karolyn Grimes ** 21:49 Yes, I agree. I don't see what it accomplishes. Michael Hingson ** 21:53 Yeah, so I can appreciate what you're saying, and it makes a lot of sense. Well, I'm glad, and I always thought that Jimmy Stewart was that kind of a person, both he and Cary Grant both seemed sensitive, really concerned about people succeeding. They weren't jerks. Karolyn Grimes ** 22:13 No, they weren't. And caught up with him later in life, he was getting calls from a lot of people about whatever happened to that little girl. And so he had one of his secretaries Call Me and find Me and and he called me and we had chat. And here I am in Missouri. He's in Hollywood. That was pretty cool when you're 40 years old. When that was the first year I ever saw the movie after I talked to him. So that was kind of how it went. But then after that, I met him in New York at a function, and we spent some time together, and he was delightful, so kind, so Michael Hingson ** 23:01 generous. I remember when I first saw part of It's a Wonderful Life. It was back in the day when there was regular television. Then there was UHF, which was everything above, basically channel 13. And you had to have special at that time receivers to receive it. And one day I was, I just come home from high school, from classes, and I turned on the television, and it was a UHF channel, and I started scrolling across, and all of a sudden I heard Jimmy Stewart's voice, and I went, What's that? And it took me a couple of minutes of listening to it to figure out what the movie was, because I had heard about it enough that I I figured it out, but I listened to about half the movie, and then later I found the whole movie and watched it. And of course, also since then, I have had the opportunity to listen to radio broadcasts of it, like Lux radio theater and so on, where, where they did it. But I remember it well, yes, so did you do much of anything in in radio? Karolyn Grimes ** 24:13 Then? Not really, not really. I can remember being on the radio for the opening night of the bishop's club. That was really exciting. Michael Hingson ** 24:28 It's a lot of interesting movies back then. You know, It's a Wonderful Life The Bishop's wife in 1947 also, there was Miracle on 34th Street that people thought was never going to go anywhere. And it and also, Karolyn Grimes ** 24:43 I'm sorry, still alive today, it Michael Hingson ** 24:46 is and, and it's a classic. All three of them are classics and, and should be, right? So what did you do after the bishop's wife, from movie standpoint? Karolyn Grimes ** 24:59 Oh. Um, I think I really don't remember exactly, but I did some movies that were westerns, and I really liked those. They were really fun. I did Rio Grande John Wayne and off Scott and I did honey child with Judy Canova. Michael Hingson ** 25:28 I'll bet that was a 25:29 was a hoot. It was a hoot. What Michael Hingson ** 25:33 was Judy Canova like? Karolyn Grimes ** 25:36 Well, she was really nice. I played her niece, and I lived with her, and she was very nice. It's like that this particular movie, her mother had just died, so she was kind of not all happy, herself, still mourning, but she was very nice and considerate. And you know, she's the one that's saying, I'll be coming around when I come. Yeah, she'll be coming around the corner when she comes. That was what I always remembered her for, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 26:15 Oh, she was always quite the character. Karolyn Grimes ** 26:18 Oh, she was and she though she had that voice that was unusual. Michael Hingson ** 26:27 So what? What did you do? What was your role in Rio Grande with John Wayne and marine O'Hara? Karolyn Grimes ** 26:39 I was the school teacher's daughter, and we lived on a fort. We were in Moab, you daughter? Film it. Yeah, we lived on a fort. And I, my uncle was Victor McLachlan. And so the Indians came and raided us, and he they saved us and put us in a wagon to send us off to be safe. But the Indians got us and killed my mom and put us in the top of a Chapel Church, and that's where we were. And so they the three of the the people, I can't think of their names again. That's problem for me names, but I'll think of them eventually. They rescued us kids, and Victor McLachlan came to get me when the Calvary had gotten there, and I'm on a plat, kind of a platform, ringing the bell. I was ringing a bell throughout this movie, and I hit a bell. I hit Harry Carey Junior over the head with a bell. I always had a bell, so I'm ringing this giant bell to say it's okay for the Calgary to come in. And Vic McLachlan had to pull me off the platform and get me out the door and into a wagon to be rescued, because all his kids were being rescued. And so when he pulled me off that platform, I had this little dress on, and I got a big bad splinter in my bottom. Oh, gosh, it was horrible. It hurt so bad I was going to say, I bet it did. You can never show anything like that. So I did not show it. I just jumped off into his arms, and that was it. Michael Hingson ** 28:44 Well, I would presume they eventually got the splitter out. Well, my Karolyn Grimes ** 28:48 mom did, yeah, those things happen. Michael Hingson ** 28:53 So what was it like working with John Wayne and Marie? No Hara, what both, what characters they are? Oh, Karolyn Grimes ** 29:02 yeah. Well, John Wayne was just a booming voice. Yeah, he was a huge figure. He I didn't really have any relationship with him, but I had a birthday in the Fourth of July while I was there, ah, and the Korean flicked. Had just broken out. It was 1950 and the government had commandeered airplanes, so John Wayne managed to have airplane bring in a bunch of supplies, and it was one of them was a big, giant birthday cake for me, and bunch of fireworks. He had $300 worth of fireworks, and so we he threw me a party out on Colorado River bluffs, and we had glass. Do is really so funny. Said Happy birthday Little Miss Carolyn and Pat way and his son, who's my age, was out there too. He was he and Michael on school break for summer, and so they were part of the film. He was my age, so we hung around a lot. We were kind of upset because all we got to do with all those fireworks, two little sparklers, what Michael Hingson ** 30:32 was marine O'Hara like? Karolyn Grimes ** 30:38 I guess maybe she and Mr. Ford didn't get along very well, and she had a temper. He had a Michael Hingson ** 30:47 temper, an Irish temper, yes, yes. Karolyn Grimes ** 30:50 And I saw a lot of that. And one particular time we were in, they had a limo that would take us from the motel to the set which was on the Colorado River, and it was on this person's ranch. So we go down this terribly dangerous road to go to his ranch. At least it was dangerous to me. I was scared, definitely going to Fall River, yeah, because it was right on the edge. But she was angry, and we were in this limo, and she was with her hairdresser. They were in the front row, and my mother and I were in the back of the limo. She was cursing and carrying on about mister Ford, and I didn't pay any attention to it. And so her hairdresser said, Miss O'Hara, there's, there's a little girl in the back. She just kept right on going. But when she said that, I started paying attention what she was in and she was just a string of curses. It was so bad, she was so angry, and it was so funny. So she didn't, it didn't bother her to swear in front of the little child. Michael Hingson ** 32:14 Just think how much language and how much elocution you learned, huh? Oh no, I did because, oh Karolyn Grimes ** 32:19 yeah, potential, until she said that, then I listened. Michael Hingson ** 32:25 Just rounded out your vocabulary. Oh, Karolyn Grimes ** 32:28 yes, I've never heard words like that, and Michael Hingson ** 32:32 probably never did again, no, than the ones you used, but, you know, but still. Oh, that's, that's pretty cool, though. So, did you ever have any kind of an opportunity to reunite and be with all of the Bailey family again from the movie? Karolyn Grimes ** 32:53 Yes, in 1993 or four? Wow. It was quite a while, 60 years later, yeah, um, I had already been in contact with little Tommy. We've been conversing on a phone for about five years, but the target tour had, It's a Wonderful Life is a sort of a theme in their stores that year, and so they thought it would be a good ploy to have a reunion with the Bailey kids. So they brought us all together and put us on a tour. And that was when we all met up again, and I was so excited to do it, and that's the first time I actually saw people's response to this movie. We were in an autographed line at some of the targets that we went to, and people would come through the line and they share their stories about how the movie had affected their lives, and I was so impressed. I well, I just couldn't forget it. And so from that time forward, I became very enamored of sharing messages with other people, and I started doing various appearances and things like that. Michael Hingson ** 34:23 Yeah. So what other kinds of appearances have you done? Karolyn Grimes ** 34:28 Oh my gosh, I couldn't even begin to tell you lots. Well, that's good. All different kinds. I mean, you know, all different kinds. 34:38 Have you had 34:40 Go ahead. Thanks. Michael Hingson ** 34:43 Have you had any or any significant number of appearances and interviews on television over the years? Karolyn Grimes ** 34:50 No, just interviews, lots of interviews, live interviews. Yeah, yes, that's all never involved with anything again. And, but, yeah, I think I might do something kind of fun in September Michael Hingson ** 35:08 March or in in Washington. Karolyn Grimes ** 35:11 No, no, what in Ireland? Michael Hingson ** 35:15 In Ireland, be gosh and be Garda. Yes, what are you going to Karolyn Grimes ** 35:19 do? They're going, they're filming movie about Jimmy Stewart. Oh, and they want me to do a cameo. Well, cool. Isn't that fun? Michael Hingson ** 35:31 That'll be exciting. Yes, I'm really excited. Wow. So long later. I, yeah, you know, I, I, I've seen, of course, movies with Jimmy Stewart, and I remember seeing him once on The Tonight Show, Later in the period of The Tonight Show and so on. And I'm not sure how long after that, he he passed, but I remember his his appearance, which was kind of fun. Karolyn Grimes ** 35:59 Did you happen to hear him when he did the poem about his dog bull. Michael Hingson ** 36:04 Yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. That's the one I saw Karolyn Grimes ** 36:07 that was so tender and true. It was just really something. Michael Hingson ** 36:13 And the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson was such a wonderful show. I watched reruns of it regularly on some of the channels, and I just think that it's so much more fun than a lot of what we see in late night TV. Today, I do miss Johnny Carson. Yes, did you ever, did you ever meet him? Karolyn Grimes ** 36:32 No, I didn't. Michael Hingson ** 36:38 Well still, I remember old Bo Karolyn Grimes ** 36:43 Yes, he was a wonderful man. Yeah, they did a special thing in 19 a, 1990 it was they had a special event that was honoring him and all the people that he worked with, Allison, you know, all the stars that he'd work with. And so he invited me to come. So I went to New York, and I just had a really wonderful time about to meet his wife, and it was just good old fun just to see him again, because he was just such a down to earth man, yeah, and he just was so kind and so generous that it was a real, real exciting moment For me, that's for sure. Michael Hingson ** 37:40 I watch him occasionally now, because he is regular, not regularly, but he's often on the Jack Benny show. And the Jack Benny show is being run on a couple on some of the TV stations, and so it's kind of fun to see the by play between he and his wife and Jack Benny. And, of course, Jack Benny, it's the traditional Jack Benny image. But the shows are so much fun, yes? And clearly, Jimmy Stewart, well, all of them have a lot of fun doing those shows. Karolyn Grimes ** 38:17 Yeah, I think they did. Yeah. Those old radio shows were so great. I really enjoyed them back in the day well. Michael Hingson ** 38:29 And I find that when people really enjoy what they do, and you see that come out in even on some of the earlier television shows, with the radio shows, it makes such a difference, because you can feel the energy that's coming from people. Karolyn Grimes ** 38:48 You do. You really do. Michael Hingson ** 38:52 If people don't enjoy what they're doing, that comes through. And you you can tell so it's it's fun, when people really enjoy it. Well, how did you get involved with the Marshfield Cherry Blossom Festival? You've been doing that for a while, Karolyn Grimes ** 39:14 a long years, more than I true. Well, Nicholas called me. He runs the festival. I can't tell you what year it was, but it probably was early 80s. Maybe, wow, no, wouldn't have been early 80s. Sorry, no. Probably in early 2000 okay? And he called me and asked me if I would come down and be in the festival. So I said, Okay, and so. We flew back and went to the festival, and it was Dean Martin's daughter was there, and one of the Munchkins was there. Can't think of his name. One lived in St Louis, character. He was there. Couple of other people that were there, you know, old stars, and it rained, it snowed, and it was just, it was awful. It sweeted. It was just really bad. So there wasn't much of a turnout, and it was kind of a disappointment to Nicholas, I think because it since then they've changed the date, so it's a little later in the year. And yeah, you know, kind of count on the weather being a little better. But then I didn't come back for about two years, and then he called me King, and from that time forward, I went back every year, and one of the special things that happened by being there was that the lady who played violet bit, young, Violet bit, she can't think of her name, but I'm really bad At names today. Yeah, way she she was a psychologist, and for the last, oh, I guess long, maybe eight years before I met her, Jimmy Hawkins, the littlest boy in the movie, and myself, had tried to get her involved with the film, and what the things that we did for the film, and she wouldn't have anything to do with it, because she thought it was Hollywood, and she didn't believe in that, and this was the only movie she did. So someone by the name of Nicholas convinced her to come that year. So she came, and she her son brought her, and when she saw how much that movie is loved and how it had affected so many people and their story, she got the first hand view of that that was then for her. She decided she wanted to be a part of It's a Wonderful Life from then on, did they Michael Hingson ** 42:27 show the movie that you're at the festival? No, oh, okay, Karolyn Grimes ** 42:32 no, she just came, Michael Hingson ** 42:34 and so many people just talked about it. Karolyn Grimes ** 42:37 Yeah, yeah. She she finally realized that people really loved the movie. Of course, she saw it after that, because after that little appearance, I say you're coming to Seneca Falls. I won't take no for an answer. So her son brought her every year after that, and of course, we saw the movie dead, and she had experienced the real love that the people had for the film and for the characters in the film. Michael Hingson ** 43:12 What was it like being around and working with Lionel Barrymore, Karolyn Grimes ** 43:20 well, I really wasn't around him very much. We had cast fish shoes sometimes, and he he was in his he was really in a wheelchair. He had crippling arthritis. It's terrible. His hands are all gnarled. And I really didn't talk to him or having any interaction with him. I might have been in scene with him, or we've done publicity photos with him, but I don't, I don't remember ever Michael Hingson ** 43:50 interacting with him, with him that much, yeah, Karolyn Grimes ** 43:53 but he wasn't scary, yeah? Michael Hingson ** 43:57 Well, that's a start. Not, not like marine O'Hara huh? Karolyn Grimes ** 44:01 No, no. And they had a cast party at the end of movie. Most movies after they're finished, had a cast party, uh huh? This one was celebrating the end of its wonderful life. And so he, he came and I got to talk to him without, you know, he had a skull cap on, and it raised his forehead about two inches, so he had real elongated, big forehead, and took more hair off his head, so he looked meaner. That was the idea. So he didn't have that on you just look like a normal man and everything, and he didn't look mean. And so I chatted with him. He was fine. He wasn't really a nice guy. Michael Hingson ** 44:51 Again, it's one of those things where he was perfect for that part, though. Karolyn Grimes ** 44:55 Oh yes, he was perfect. Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 45:00 It was, it was fun. And I, I think, at the time, when I first saw the movie, I didn't even know that he was the person who played Mr. Potter, but I didn't, I didn't realize that because I was young enough, but I hadn't really learned about different characters and and different actors, but I figured it out soon enough. Yeah, so tell me about Zuzu house back there. Karolyn Grimes ** 45:30 Well, one night I was writing in a limo, and it was during the Christmas season. I was somewhere in New York, and I can't remember where I was doing a gig, and Nicholas called me, and I'll always remember it, because I was sitting in this room all and he said, Carolyn, I just discovered there are people in this community. This is very small town. Well, it's a small town, and there are people who young people who don't have a place to sleep. They're sleeping on park benches. There's this couch surfing, all this chippy said I had no idea this was going on. I want us to start a house and make it possible for them to have shelter. And so he said, The reason I'm calling you is because I want to know if it's alright if I name it the Zuzu house. So I said, Well, of course, go right ahead. So from then on, I became active with the Zuzu house and their foundation and their situation, all that they do. Unfortunately, covid happened right after that, and it made it really hard to get, you know, materials, building materials, and things like that that we needed to finish it. So it took a long time to finish the house, but it's finished now, and it houses now. It houses is us refuse for women from mean men, I guess, and that's what it is. So I'm proud to be part of it, and they did such a fabulous job. It's a great, wonderful, beautiful facility, and it's way out in the country, and it's really a place where they can get their marbles all on sack again. Michael Hingson ** 47:33 How far is it from Marshfield? Um, I didn't get to go there when I was there last year. Karolyn Grimes ** 47:40 My guess is about 30 minutes. Oh, okay. Michael Hingson ** 47:47 Well, now the the the other question I would ask is, as you pointed out, the reason that the women are there, so do you go and teach them elocution, like how Marino Hara talk so that they can, yeah, I just just say, help them out, you know, Karolyn Grimes ** 48:08 yeah, I learned a lot there. Michael Hingson ** 48:12 But yeah, that that's really cool, that that you, you do that. Well, tell me about Seneca Falls, or, should we say, Bedford Falls, and what goes on there, and, yes, what you do and so on. I'll always think of it just Bedford Falls, but Karolyn Grimes ** 48:27 most people do, Michael Hingson ** 48:29 as opposed to potters field, you know. But yeah, Karolyn Grimes ** 48:34 about seeing my this is my 23rd year. So 23 years ago, God, I can't believe it's that long. I knew cameraman on the Oprah show. It's very good friend of mine. And so it was September, and he called me and he said, Oh my god, Carolyn, this is it. This is the town you've got to come here. You've got to come He says, I'm going to go talk to somebody. And that was the last I heard. But he talked to somebody, the right person who knew what it was about and saw the possibilities. And so her name was mo cock at the time. Her name is Young. Now mo young, but she went to the Historical Society and got funding and turned it around real fast so that they could create an event for me to come and appear. So I did, and I landed in Rochester, I believe what drove to Seneca Falls, and it was snowing, and I there was no one on the streets. There was no one around. And she drive, drove up to the Main Street and open. The car door. When we just walked on Main Street, the bridge was there. It was all lit up, yeah, lit up on each post, lamp post. And it was the most wonderful experience, because I really felt like this was the place, if Frank Kaplan wanted to see a place that would inspire him to build bamboo falls, this would be the place to come. And I was so impressed. And I just loved it. So I came back every year after that, yeah, and, and then I started inviting other people like Jimmy Hawkins and Jamie, who Carol Coombs, who played Jamie, and, you know, other people. And so it was very neat event. And I even invited the babies who played Larry, the oldest boy in the movie. You know, they have a they have to have twins to play babies, because they can't be under the lights so long. So they rotate them. And so that was, that was really kind of incredible, too. Now, it's a huge affair and it Michael Hingson ** 51:21 never had anything to do with the movie originally, right? Karolyn Grimes ** 51:25 We're not sure. I actually think that Frank Capra had an aunt in Aurora, which is south of that town, and there's a barber there that he swears that he cut Capra's hair, and when I first started going there, what, 20 years ago, he was still alive. So I talked to him, and I said, Do you really think that was Frank Capra? And he said, Yes, I do. I really do. And he said, You know, I cut his hair, and I will always remember we chatted, and he said he was from Sicily, and I was from Sicily too, so we had a lot of calm. And he said his last name was Capra, and it means goat in Italian. And Tommy's name, the barber's name is bellissimo, which means beautiful. So he said, I always remember cutting the goat's hair. Wow, I saw three weeks later in a newspaper, there was an article about him going to make the movie. It's a wonderful love. So he said I knew that was who he was, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 52:54 so he had clearly been there, and imagery made such an impression on him, Karolyn Grimes ** 53:03 and also on the bridge, there's a plaque, and he would have seen this, and it was for a young Italian immigrant. And of course, you know, capper was strong Italian. And this young Italian immigrant didn't know how to swim, but he jumped in the canal to save the life of a wasp woman who was committing suicide, and he made her her get out of our she got out of the water safely, and he died, he didn't know how to swim. So it was a huge thing back then, and it brought the community together. You know, there was the Italian side and and the the other side. And this brought everybody together. And it, it turned out that the they brought the whole family, his whole family, over, because they were, you know, what, wanted to do something, because they appreciated what he'd done so much to say that woman's life. And so I think camper would have seen that and that plaque, and he would have learned a story, and maybe that gave him some ideas about It's A Wonderful Life. Michael Hingson ** 54:28 I don't know a lot about Frank Capra, but it's fascinating to hear the stories that you're telling, because it it certainly portrays him as a not only a caring person, but a person who pays attention to a lot of detail. The very fact that that he was in that town, and all the imagery and all the things that he brought to it had to, had to be very relevant. Well, all Karolyn Grimes ** 54:56 the names of the streets in the town are. The movie, or, you know, quite a few of them, yeah, and the main street had a part of it at that time that had trees down the middle of it. And there's just so many things in in the town that are applicable to the film. And I used to know tons more when I was trying to convince everybody that this was the place. But now I don't have to remember those anymore, because people already know there are 1000s and 1000s of people that go through the town and feel the magic that now then we, we the gift shop is making it possible for people to remember their loved ones by putting bells on the bridge. And it's really, you know, become something. And then the museum, which I helped start, is really a cool museum, but they are getting a new museum, which is going to be much larger because they can't even begin to display all the things they have. Michael Hingson ** 56:14 Well, it's, it's, it's interesting how all of this has has come up, but none of the filming of the movie was was done there. It was all in Hollywood, right? Oh, yes, but, but still, the the imagery and the vision that that people have, that brought you and everyone together to create that celebration is certainly great for the town. I love that one is it? I'm just going to have to show up. It's a Christmas event every year, right? Karolyn Grimes ** 56:47 Yes, yeah. There's a 5k run, and they start on the bridge. And there's a few serious people in the beginning, some fellas and gals that want to win. But after that, let me tell you, it's fun. There are people dressed like Christmas trees. They got lights all over themselves. They they light up their dogs, their babies, their strollers, and they're all in this run, and it's five miles. And at some of the they go through the residential district, and some of the houses they have the booths give them a little bit of hot toddy and so forth to get them on Michael Hingson ** 57:29 the way. Yeah, in Christmas time, I would think so it's just Karolyn Grimes ** 57:33 a lot of fun. And people love it. And I always started every time they have it. I've always started it, so that's kind of a tradition. Michael Hingson ** 57:46 So you have done some cameos, like Gremlins and Christmas vacation, right? Well, yeah, cameo appearances, Karolyn Grimes ** 57:55 yeah, I guess you say that, yeah. What was that like? Well, it's, it was just, you know, the movie they showed the movie, yeah, so that was, that was all. It was just, they showed the movie just like they showed it in Christmas vacation. And somehow, when they show the movie, it's always when Zuzu is saying that line. Oh, Michael Hingson ** 58:21 okay, so it's not so much you as it is the the original movie, yeah, it's little Zuzu well, but it's a great line. I mean, you know, well, it is. I remember last year, wasn't it? I think at the reps event. We'll get to that in a sec. But I remember getting some bells from you, and I actually, I think I told you I was going to send one to my cousin, and I let you say hello to her, and she got that bell and was completely blown away. She loves it. Oh, good. And I have the bell. I have my bell sitting out in open plain sight for the world to see, and I go by and ring it every so often. Oh, great. Oh, well, we gotta have those angels out. So what kind of events and things do you do typically, or do you like to to enjoy doing it Christmas? Karolyn Grimes ** 59:20 Um, I kind of work during Christmas. Well, that's my season, and so I do gift shows. I do appearances, I introduce the movie. I do I'm on the road the whole time, and I love it, because I interact with these wonderful people who love the movie. And if they love the movie, believe me, they are wonderful people. Michael Hingson ** 59:45 Yeah, undoubtedly, so well, so you you also have been involved with some of the radio recreations from from reps. And what do you think about that? How do you like that? Do. Karolyn Grimes ** 59:59 Oh, my goodness, so much fun. And I'm old enough to remember a Michael Hingson ** 1:00:04 lot of the shows. Karolyn Grimes ** 1:00:07 No, I remember very well. And, you know, I it was just a whole bunch of fun to do that and recreate these scenes from older raining days. And I remember my mother and father bought a brand new Frazier. It's a car, and I'm sure nobody's ever heard of Kaiser Fraser cars, because that was the ugliest name car in my life. But they had to have that car. And I remember when we got the car, my dad was offered he could either have a heater and he could afford to pay for either a heater or a radio. And he chose the radio. So I heard inner sanctum. I heard all these wonderful, wonderful plays. Back in the day, all these shows from the radio. Michael Hingson ** 1:01:07 I came in near the the so called traditional end of radio, probably actually 1957 so I had five years, but almost from the beginning, I always wanted to collect more of the shows and did, and then also did a radio program for six and a half, almost seven years at the campus radio station where I worked, kuci. We did radio every Sunday night, so I had three hours of radio. And I love to tell people I heard about this show on television called 60 minutes. But my show was opposite Mike Wallace, and mine went for three hours, and his was only an hour, but it was like seven years before I got to watch 60 minutes and and learn about it, because we had shows every year or every every Sunday night, and we had a deputy sheriff who called from the Orange County jail once to tell me. He said, You know, you guys have created a real challenge for us, because he said, so many people have heard about what you do, some of a lot of our inmates, that on Sunday nights, we have to split the jail and send half people up, half the people upstairs, where there's enough radio reception, they can listen to your show, and the other half listens to and watches 60 minutes, which I always thought was kind of cute. So you do a podcast now too, don't you? 1:02:34 I do tell us Michael Hingson ** 1:02:36 about that. I know we were focused on it. Yeah, Karolyn Grimes ** 1:02:39 Chris and I do it. He's He's a psychologist, and we interview all kinds of people, all walks of life, yeah. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:51 How long has it been running now, Karolyn Grimes ** 1:02:54 this is second year, okay, Michael Hingson ** 1:02:57 well, I don't know. Chris hasn't said a single word during this whole thing. Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:01 Oh, he's not here. What good is he, you know, right? Michael Hingson ** 1:03:09 Well, so you know, we've been, can you believe what we've been doing? This an hour? Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:14 Oh, really, I did not know. I'm Michael Hingson ** 1:03:18 telling you, time flies when you're having fun. Is there kind of anything that you want to talk about that maybe we haven't yet, any any last questions or thoughts that you have that you want to bring up? Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:31 No, I don't think so. I think we've covered it pretty good. We've, we've, Michael Hingson ** 1:03:37 we've done a lot. But you know, it's really wonderful to to have you on if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Karolyn Grimes ** 1:03:45 They can reach me at Carolyn, K, A R, o l, y n, dot Wilkerson, W, I, L, k, e r, s o n@gmail.com, Michael Hingson ** 1:04:01 okay. Well, hopefully people will reach out, and if they want to also have a website, I was going to ask 1:04:10 you that zoo, zoo.net, Michael Hingson ** 1:04:12 well, you can't do better than that. And what's the podcast called Karolyn Grimes ** 1:04:22 seeing this is the thing with names. There it goes again. You think, I know? Oh, my goodness, I can't remember. Oh, tell you, I'm getting old. It's getting worse and worse. Michael Hingson ** 1:04:36 All grown up is the puppy. All grown up, all grown ups. Oh, Carolyn, Carol, well, there you go. Well, yeah, and I, I enjoyed being on it. Well, I'm sorry we're going to miss seeing you at reps, because I won't be able to be there. I had told Walden, and walden's actually been on unstoppable mindset now a couple of. On, but I had told him he and I had talked about me doing Richard diamond private detective and actually playing Richard diamond. And I said, I want Carolyn to play Helen Asher. So we'll now have to postpone, postpone that till next year, 1:05:14 but we're going to do it. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 1:05:17 yeah. It'll be fun. I Richard diamond has always been kind of really my favorite radio show, and I think I can carry off that voice pretty well. Karolyn Grimes ** 1:05:27 So it'll be fun. Yeah, it will well. Michael Hingson ** 1:05:30 I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening to us today, reminisce and talk about all sorts of stuff. Love to hear your thoughts. Please feel free to email me at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, and, of course, wherever you're observing the podcast today, I hope that you'll give us a five star rating. Karolyn deserves a five star rating, even if you don't think I do do it for Karolyn. We love to have great reviews. We appreciate it. And Karolyn for you and everyone out there who is listening and watching. If you know anyone else who ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, we'd love it if you'd reach out and let us know, give us an introduction. I think everyone has a story to tell, and I enjoy getting the opportunity to to visit with people and hear stories. So please, if you have any thoughts, introduce us. We'd love to to meet other people. But again, Karolyn, I really appreciate you being here, and I want to thank you for being with us today. 1:06:38 My pleasure being here. Michael Hingson ** 1:06:42 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

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Song of Solomon 3:1-4:7: The Bridegroom Comes, Awake!

The Growing Small Towns Show

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 9, 2025 54:55

The bride is longingly looking for her bridegroom in the night and suddenly finds him to her great delight, in a scene very reminiscent of Mary Magdalene searching for Jesus after His resurrection. The wedding procession begins and includes imagery reminiscent of the LORD's protection of His people as they journeyed through the wilderness to the Promised Land. As the bridegroom looks upon his bride, he praises her beauty, recognizing his wife as God's gift to him in marriage. Rev. Andrew Belt, pastor at Christ Lutheran Church in Marshfield, WI, joins host Rev. Timothy Appel to study Song of Solomon 3:1-4:7. To learn more about Christ Lutheran, visit christmarshfield.org. “God's Gift of Marriage” is a mini-series on Sharper Iron that studies the Song of Solomon and other key texts from the Bible concerning marriage. Although the world is terribly confused concerning what marriage is, God's Word reveals how good a gift marriage truly is and points us to the relationship between Christ, the Bridegroom, and His Church, the Bride. Sharper Iron, hosted by Rev. Timothy Appel, looks at the text of Holy Scripture both in its broad context and its narrow detail, all for the sake of proclaiming Christ crucified and risen for sinners. Two pastors engage with God's Word to sharpen not only their own faith and knowledge, but the faith and knowledge of all who listen. Submit comments or questions to: listener@kfuo.org

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S5:E17 - Engaging Kids to Contribute with Craig Cegielski and Tyson Rohrscheib

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 8, 2025 86:58

We are kicking off the second part of Season 5 with a bang and sharing one of the coolest programs we've had the pleasure of learning about: Cardinal Manufacturing. Led by our guests, Craig and Tyson, Cardinal Manufacturing is a high school class *and* a full-fledged business that allows students to not only do actual work but learn the skills involved in running a business, from how to walk through a door with confidence and give a good handshake to how to quote jobs, do the work, and submit invoices. Like…can you even?! It's the coolest program and we can't wait to share it with you. About Cardinal Manufacturing: Cardinal Manufacturing began in the Eleva-Strum School District during the 2007-2008 academic year when instructor, Craig Cegielski, approached the School Board about the potential of pursuing an in-school manufacturing business similar to one he started in his prior position in the school district of Antigo, WI. The school board approved and since that time Cardinal Manufacturing has gone from its infant stages to a company with significant annual sales and national notoriety. The growth of the program has attracted national and international attention and Cardinal Manufacturing has attended national tradeshows and hosted celebrity guests including Wisconsin's Governor, Scott Walker. Cardinal Manufacturing has served hundreds of customers from private individuals to clients throughout the state of Wisconsin and other parts of the country. A number of students have gone directly to skilled employment positions after high school, but most choose to go on to post-secondary education through technical college or the university system. Chippewa Valley Technical College and UW-Stout have taken a particular interest in the program. Cardinal Manufacturing has also built strong relationships with a number of private companies and professional organizations which have been supportive through donations, advice, publicity opportunities, and projects. In-school programs such as Cardinal Manufacturing serve as a grassroots economic development effort. Not only do these programs expose students to career opportunities in manufacturing and teach students soft skills for future employment, but they also work toward changing the attitudes of counselors and parents to be more open to the idea of encouraging students to look at manufacturing careers. Students get hands on opportunities to try out these roles before making an expensive decision in choosing a post-secondary program. In other words, kids get the chance to try welding, machining, construction, production management, accounting, office management, and marketing prior to committing to a major or area of study. The services provided through the program are worthwhile and valuable to the customers who pay for the service. Cardinal Manufacturing is a year-long two credit class which offers more than a standard classroom instruction. Students in this class gain the real life experiences of problem solving, running a business, and working in professional career roles. Students must apply to be part of this program and manufacturing employees have successfully completed both Metal Working I and II. The application process includes creating and submitting a resume, project portfolio, and a letter of recommendation. Once accepted, student participants are assigned a role that may include: Quoting jobs Ordering materials Manufacturing parts Quality control and inspections Shipping product Receiving product and materials Invoicing Customer service Accounting Marketing Maintaining work hours Besides the great experience gained, the students receive a profit sharing check at the end of the school year based upon number of hours worked and other measurement tools. Only a portion of Cardinal Manufacturing earnings are paid to students after expenses and upcoming needs are covered. Most of the money earned supports the purchase of materials, equipment and facility needs to continually grow and improve Cardinal Manufacturing. About Craig: Craig Cegielski, a native of Marshfield, WI, developed a passion for manufacturing early on through high school technical education classes and hands-on work at a local machine and fabrication shop. He earned his degree in Technology Education from the University of Wisconsin–Stout and began his teaching career at Antigo High School, where he launched the successful student-run business, Red Robin Machining. After a brief return to industry, Craig joined Eleva-Strum High School as a Technology Education teacher. In 2007, he founded Cardinal Manufacturing, a student-run business designed to give students real-world experience in the trades. With over 20 years of dedication to technical education, Craig continues to lead and expand Cardinal Manufacturing, helping prepare students for successful careers in manufacturing. About Tyson: Tyson Rohrscheib is a Technology Education teacher at Eleva-Strum High School, where he has taught since 2019. An Eleva-Strum alumnus, Tyson began his training in Machine Tool and Die at Chippewa Valley Technical College before earning his degree in Technology Education from the University of Wisconsin–Stout. He brings a strong background in machining and hands-on learning to his teaching, preparing students for real-world careers in manufacturing and engineering. Outside of the classroom, Tyson is active on his family farm, managing a herd of 40 beef cattle and working on metalworking projects in his home shop. In this episode, we cover: What Cardinal Manufacturing is and how it started How exposing kids at a young age is key to getting them interested in a career Why technical skills are the least important thing they teach How the local community supports Cardinal Manufacturing and the students Links + Resources Mentioned: Website: Cardinal ManufacturingVideo Gallery: Watch HereFacebook: @CardinalManufacturingInstagram: @cardinal_manufacturingYouTube: Cardinal Manufacturing Channel Sponsor Spotlight: Brodie Mueller and The Market on the Plaza In small towns, coffee is more than caffeine. It's community! Market on the Plaza roasts beans locally in Aberdeen, in small batches for the freshest, richest cup to start your day or for an afternoon pick-me-up. Stop in to grab a bag for home or linger over a cup with neighbors. Proudly local, always welcoming. This week's Small-Town Shout-Out is: Freeman, South Dakota! Shelly says, “We love to fest!” Freeman hosts THREE annual Fests and they're all completely volunteer-run. Like, three *every year!* This is amazing and cool and hats off to Freeman for having the community enthusiasm and buy-in to host multiple events every year. Heck yeah Freeman! We Want to Hear From You! Some of the best parts about radio shows and podcasts are listener call-ins, so we've decided to make those a part of the Growing Small Towns Podcast. We really, really want to hear from you! We're have two “participation dance” elements of the show: “Small town humblebrags”: Call in and tell us about something amazing you did in your small town so we can celebrate with you. No win is too small—we want to hear it all, and we will be excessively enthusiastic about whatever it is! You can call in for your friends, too, because giving shout-outs is one of our favorite things. “Solving Your Small-Town People Challenges”: Have a tough issue in your community? We want to help. Call in and tell us about your problem, and we'll solve it on an episode of the podcast. Want to remain anonymous? Totally cool, we can be all secretive and stuff. We're suave like that. If you've got a humblebrag or a tricky people problem, call 701-203-3337 and leave a message with the deets. We really can't wait to hear from you! Get In Touch Have an idea for a future episode/guest, have feedback or a question, or just want to chat? Email us at hello@growingsmalltowns.org Subscribe + Review Thanks for tuning into this week's episode of The Growing Small Towns Show! If the information in our conversations and interviews has helped you in your small town, head out to Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or Spotify, subscribe to the show, and leave us an honest review. Your reviews and feedback will not only help us continue to deliver relevant, helpful content, but it will also help us reach even more small-town trailblazers just like you!

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Episode 365 – Unstoppable Tea Time Advocate with Elizabeth Gagnon

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 26, 2025 67:09

Our guest this time, Elizabeth Gagnon is all about Tea. However, as you will discover, her Tea is not mostly the drink although at the end of our episode we do learn she does like some teas. For Miss Liz, as she is most commonly known, Tea stands for Teaching Educational Awareness. Miss Liz's life growing up was hard. She was sexually abused among other things. It took her awhile to deal with all the trauma she faced. However, as she and I discuss, she made choices to not let all the abuse and beatings hold her back. She tried to graduate from high school and was one course away from that goal when she had to quit school. She also worked to get her GED and again was only a few units away when life got in the way. Liz's story is not to her a tragedy. Again, she made choices that helped her move on. In 2010 she began her own business to deal with mental health advocacy using her Tea approach. Liz will tell us all about Tea and the many iterations and changes the Tea model has taken over the years. I am as impressed as I can be to talk with miss Liz and see her spirit shine. I hope you will feel the same after you hear this episode. Miss Liz has written several books over the past several years and there are more on the way. Pictures of her book covers are in the show notes for this episode. I hope you enjoy hearing from this award-winning lady and that you will gain insights that will help you be more unstoppable. About the Guest: Elizabeth Jean Olivia Gagnon, widely known as Miss Liz, is an international keynote speaker, best-selling author, and the visionary behind Miss Liz's Tea Parties and Teatimes. A fierce advocate for mental health, abuse awareness, and peacebuilding, she's recognized globally for her storytelling platforms that empower individuals to share their truths “one cup at a time.” From podcast host to humanitarian, Miss Liz uses her voice and lived experience to ignite real change across communities and cultures. A survivor of extreme trauma, Miss Liz has transformed her pain into purpose by creating safe spaces for open, healing conversations. Her work has earned her prestigious honors, including an Honorary Doctorate for Human Rights, the Hope and Resilience Award, and the World Superhero Award from LOANI. She's been featured on over 200 platforms globally and continues to lead through her podcast, social impact work, and live storytelling events. Miss Liz is also a multi-time international best-selling co-author in the Sacred Hearts Rising and Unstoppable Gems book series. She's the creator of the TeaBag Story Award and the founder of her own T-E-A product line—Teaching Educational Awareness through fashion, wellness, and personal development tools. With every word, event, and product, Miss Liz reminds us that healing is possible, and that we all hold the power to be a seed of change. Ways to connect with Elizabeth: Social media links my two websites www.misslizsteatime.com www.misslizstee.com All my social media links can be found on those sites. Or my linktree. https://linktr.ee/Misslizsteatime About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to talk to Miss Liz Gagnon, and I'm really interested to hear why she likes to be called Miss Liz instead of Elizabeth, or any of those kinds of things. But Liz also has some very interesting connections to tea, and I'm not going to give away what that's all about, but I'll tell you right now, it's not what you think. So we'll, we'll get to that, though, and I hope that we get to have lots of fun. Over the next hour, I've told Liz that our podcast rule, the only major rule on this podcast is you can't come on unless you're going to have fun. So I expect that we're going to have a lot of fun today. And Liz, welcome to unstoppable mindset. We are glad you're here. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:09 Well, thank you so much, Michael for having me. It's an honor to be here. I can't wait to dip into the tea and get everybody curious on what we're going to be spilling. So, Michael Hingson ** 02:19 so how did you get started with the the name Miss Liz, as opposed to Elizabeth or Lizzie or any of that kind of stuff. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:28 Well, I have all those names too, Michael, I'll bet you Michael Hingson ** 02:31 do. But still, Miss Liz is what you choose. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:35 Actually, Miss Liz was given to me at the age of four the same time my cup of tea was given to me at the age of four by my Oma. I that she just had a hard time saying Elizabeth. She was from Germany, so she would just call me Miss Liz. Miss Liz. And then I knew, Oh boy, I better move, right. Michael Hingson ** 02:52 Yeah. If she ever really got to the point where she could say Elizabeth, very well, then you really better move. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 02:59 Well, she used to call me Elvira too, and I didn't like that name Elvira. Yeah, I don't know how she got Elizabeth from a viral but she used to call me a vira. I think maybe it was because her name was Avira, so I think it was close to her name, right? So, well, Michael Hingson ** 03:17 tell us a little bit about the early Miss Liz, growing up and all that stuff, and little bit about where you came from and all that. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 03:25 Well, I come from a little town called Hearst, Ontario in Canada. It's about maybe 6000 population. I'm going to guess. I was born and raised there until the age of I think it was 31 when I finally moved away for the last time, and I've been in the East End, down by Ottawa and Cornwall and all that stuff since 2005 but My early childhood was a hard one, but it was also a strong one. I A lot of people will say, how do you consider that strong? I've been through a lot of abuse and neglect and a lot of psychological stuff growing up and but I had my tea, I had that little Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole that I could go down once in a while, just to keep me moving and keep me strong, right? So, yeah, my story was, was a hard one, but I don't look at it as a struggle. I look at it as as stepping stones of overcoming Stuff and Being that voice that I am today, Michael Hingson ** 04:29 struggle, if you if you're willing to talk about a struggle, how Elizabeth Gagnon ** 04:35 I was sexually abused by my uncle at the age of four, and then other family members later on, in couple years later down the road, but my uncle was the main abuser, and I became impregnant by my uncle and lost a daughter to stillborn. So there was a lot of shame to the family. Was not allowed to speak at this child for many, many years, I finally came out with her story. After my father passed, because I felt safe, because my family would put me into psychiatric wards when I would talk about my little girls, Michael Hingson ** 05:06 wow, yeah, I, I don't know I, I just have very little sympathy for people who do that to girls, needless to say, and now, now my cat, on the other hand, says she's abused all the time, but that's a different story, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 05:25 right? But I strongly believe, Michael, that we all go through challenges and struggles in life to have our story, to be that voice where we are today, like like yourself, right? Had you not gone through what you went through, you would not have the story that you have Michael Hingson ** 05:42 well, and I think that it also comes down to what you decide to do with the story. You could just hide it, hide behind it, or other things like that. And the problem is, of course, that then you don't talk about it. Now, after September 11, I didn't go through any real counseling or anything like that. But what I did do was I and my wife and I discussed it. We allowed me to take calls from reporters, and literally, we had hundreds of calls from reporters over a six month period. And what was really fascinating for me, especially with the TV people who came. I learned a whole lot about how TV people set up to do an interview. We had a Japanese company with two or three people who came, and that was it up through an Italian company that had 15 people who invaded our house, most of whom didn't really seem to do anything, and we never figured out why were they. They were there. But it's fascinating to see how 06:46 extras, Michael, Michael Hingson ** 06:49 extra, the extras, yeah, but we but it was very fascinating. But the point was that the reporters asked everything from the most inane, dumb question to very intelligent, wise, interesting questions, and it made me talk about September 11. So I don't think that anything could have been done in any other way that would have added as much value as having all those reporters come and talk to me. And then people started calling and saying, We want you to come and talk to us and talk to us about what we should learn from September 11 lessons we should learn talk about leadership and trust in your life and other things like that. And my wife and I decided that, in reality, selling life and philosophy was a whole lot more fun and rewarding than managing a computer hardware sales team and selling computer hardware. So I switched. But it was a choice. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 07:48 Yeah, it is a choice, right? Michael, do you, do you stay in the self pity, or do you rise from it, right? And a lot of people were like, Miss Liz, how can you be so good hearted and open to people that have hurt you so bad? And I always said, since I was a little girl, Michael, I would not give anybody what others gave me. Yeah, you know that that little inner girl in me always said, like, you know what it feels like. Would you like somebody else to feel this way? And the answer is no. Michael Hingson ** 08:16 And with people like your uncle, did you forgive them ever? Or have you, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 08:21 I forgive them for myself. Yeah, I that's how you do. You know, I'm not forgiving you and coming for your Sunday dinner and having roast beef and pretending that it was all fun and games. When I was younger, I had no choice to forgive him and to be around him, because that's how my parents were. You know, don't bring shame to the family and as a minor. Well, you you know you obey your parents and that, and I hate that word, obey I hear. You know, I grew up in a time where you respect your elders, right? Whether they were good or bad, you respected them. It was Yes, sir, yes, ma'am. You know whether they hurt you or not, you just respected these people. Do I? Do I have respect for them today, absolutely not. I pray for them, and I hope that they find peace within themselves. But I'm not going to sit in and apologize to somebody who actually doesn't give to to tune darns of my my apology, right? So my words? Michael Hingson ** 09:23 Well, the the bottom line is that respect is something that has to be earned, and if they're not trying to earn it, then you know, why should you respect? On the other hand, forgiveness is something that you can do and and you do it and you move on, yeah, and Elizabeth Gagnon ** 09:40 a lot of people don't understand the real forgiveness, right? They always tell me, Miss Liz, you haven't forgiven anybody. And I said, Yes, I have, or I wouldn't be where I am today, guys, yeah, if I wouldn't have forgiven those people for myself, not for them. Michael Hingson ** 09:55 Now, see, that's the difference between people and my cat. My cat has no self pity. She's just a demanding kitty, and I wouldn't have her any of that. Oh, she's she's really wonderful. She likes to get petted while she eats. And she'll yell at me until I come and pet her, and then she eats while I'm petting her. She loves it. She's a cutie. She's 15 and going on two. She's great. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 10:17 Oh, those are the cute ones, right? When they stay young at heart, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 10:21 oh, she, she does. So my wife passed in 2022, and now stitch, that's the cat's name, sleeps up next to me. And so that works out well, and she was named stitch when we got her, not quite sure where the name originally came from, but we rescued her. We were not going to keep her. We were going to find her a home because we were living in an apartment. But then I learned that the cat's name was stitch, and I knew that that cat weren't going to go nowhere, because my wife had been a quilter since 1994 you think a quilter is ever going to give up a cat named stitch? So stitch has been with us now for over 10 years. That's great. Oh, wow. And there's a lot of love there, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 11:03 yeah. And, you know, these little connections, right? The Universe sends us, you know, the names and all of that. They send us pets as well as guidance. You know, my little guy is Tinkerbell, and everybody thinks that she's still a kitten. She she's going to be 12 in September, so, but she's still a little tiny thing. She kept the name. She just wants to be a little Tinkerbell. So Michael Hingson ** 11:24 that's cool. What a cute name for a kitty. Anyway, yeah, well, so you, you grew up? Did you go to to college or university? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 11:34 No, I got out of school. I was half a credit away from high school graduation. I became pregnant for the second time, and then I got married at 18. While it was more or less I was I had no choice to get married or or I would have, my father would have took my daughter from me, my oldest, who is alive, and I I had already lost one, and I wasn't losing a second one. So I got married. I did go back to adult school in 2000 I got I was one exam away from getting my GED, and that night, I got a beating of a lifetime from my ex husband, because he didn't want me to get ahead of him, right? So, and then I went back again to try and get my GED three other times, and I was always four points away from getting what I needed to get it. So I was just like, You know what? The universe doesn't want me to have this piece of paper, I guess. Yeah, and I'm not giving up, right? I'm just it's not the right timing and maybe in the future, and it's always the y and s string that gets me the four point question guys on the math exam that gets me every time, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 12:49 oh, well. Well, I always thought that my wife, in so many ways, was was ahead of me, and it didn't ever bother me, and it never will bother me a bit, just things that she would say, creative things, just clever things. She clearly was ahead of me, and I think she felt the same way about me in various ways, but that's what made for a great marriage. And we we worked off each other very well, and then that's kind of the way it really ought to be. Oh boy, ego, ego gets to be a real challenge sometimes, though, doesn't Elizabeth Gagnon ** 13:24 it? Oh yes, it does. So Michael Hingson ** 13:27 what did you do when you didn't go off and end up going to school? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 13:32 I became a mom, and then I did the mom role, right? I grew up in a kind of like a redneck, hillbilly kind of family where the accent kind of kicks in once in a while. You know, it was barefoot and pregnant, you take care of the kids, cook and clean and be the wife and just obey. Once again, that word obey. You know, I grew up with that word a lot, and that's why you don't like that word. I'm surprised I'm even using it tonight. But, yeah, so it was just take care of the family and just live. And eventually, in 2005 a lot of things happened with my children and myself, and we just left and started a new life. In 2006 I felt ill. I was at work, and my left arm went numb, and I thought I was having a heart attack or or that they were checking me since I was little, for MS as well, because I have a lot of problems with my legs. I fall a lot, so we're still looking into that, because I'm in the age range now where it can be diagnosed, you know, so we're so in 2006 I became ill, and I lost feelings from my hips down where I couldn't walk anymore. So I had to make some tough choices, and I reached out to my family, which I kind of. Figured I'd get that answer from them. They told me to get a backbone and take care of my own life and stop because I moved away from everybody. So I turned to the foster care system to help me with my children, and that was a hard choice. Michael, it took me two and a half months. My children sat down with me and said, Mommy, can we please stay where we are? We we have friends. You know, we're not moving all the time anymore. I saw it took a while, and I signed my kids over legal guardianship, but I made a deal with the services that I would stay in the children's lives. I would continue their visits twice a month, and be at all their graduations, be at their dance recital, anything I was there. I wanted my children to know that I was not giving up on them. I just was not able to take care of them in my Michael Hingson ** 15:50 home. Did they accept that? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 15:53 Oh, they did, yeah, and it was a bumpy road. The first five years. Was a lot of adjusting, and we were really close. I got to pick the foster homes, which is not usually the way it works. So and my children went through a lot of abuse as well. My ex husband was very abusive, so I knew that my daughter needed to be around horses. She loved to be around horses, so I found her home that had horses. And my other two children, I found a home where they had music, and music was really important to me, because music is what saved me as well during my journey, right? I turned to music to to get through the hard times. So yeah, the first five years was it was adjustments, and really good, and we got along. And after that the services changed, new workers came in, and then it became a nightmare. There was less visits happening. There was an excuse for a visit. There was oh, well, maybe we can reschedule this, or if we do them at five in the morning, can you show up? And of course, I was showing up at five and going to bed as soon as the visit was done, because I was by myself, so it was a journey, but and I I am grateful for that journey, because today me and my older kids, who are adults, were really close, and we're building that bond again, and they understand the journey that Mom had to take in order for them to have a home. Michael Hingson ** 17:24 They understand it and accept it, which is really obviously the important thing, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 17:30 yeah. But it's been, it's been rocky. Michael, like, you know, we've had our ups and downs. We've had like you You gave up on us. Like, you know, we've had those moments. But my children now becoming adults and becoming parents themselves. They see that. They see what mom had to do, right? Michael Hingson ** 17:47 So are you able to walk now and move around? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 17:51 Oh, yeah, I was. It took about six months for me to learn how to walk again. I still have a limb from time to time. A lot of people call it my penguin little limp, because I limped like a little penguin from time to time, because my what happened is I went through so much trauma in my life constantly that I they diagnosed me with conversion disorder, which is not really well known to to a lot of people. And what it does is it shuts the body down, so I have no control over when my body says it's going to take a break. It just says I'm going on holidays, and you just gotta deal with it. So there's days where I can't walk, right? There's days where I can't talk. It sounds like I'm drunk. My sight is blurred, plus I'm already losing my sight because of genetic jerusa and stuff like that as well. So, but I mean, it took everything in me to push myself. And what pushed me was I had this nurse that was really rough with me, and she would give me these sponge baths, and she would slam me into the chair. And I told her, I said, next week, you will not be slamming me in that chair. And the next week I got up and I took three steps, and then the next couple hours, it was four, five steps, six steps. And I was like, I got this. I know I can do this, but it took six months, Michael, Michael Hingson ** 19:15 but still, ultimately, the bottom line is, no rugby or American football for you. Huh? Nope. Okay. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 19:24 No, not you know, not yet. Anyway, well, maybe you never know, right? I'm still young. I'm only 51 you never know what I'm going to be doing next year. I always tell everybody, Miss Liz is always on an adventure. Michael Hingson ** 19:36 So yeah, but I'm I'm not, I'm not an advocate of going off for rugby or football, but that's all right, do whatever works. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 19:42 Well, I'd like to watch football 19:45 that's different. I'd like to Elizabeth Gagnon ** 19:47 check those boys out once in a while. Well, yeah, but yeah, no, I You just never know where I'm gonna go, right? Only the good universe knows where it's putting me next Michael Hingson ** 19:58 year. So, so what kind. Of work. Did you did you do and, and what are you doing now? How to kind of one lead to the other? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 20:08 Actually, I started my business in 2015 of Miss Liz tea times. It was a fundraising Tea Party, but it started in my home. All I did was have a bunch of ladies over and celebrate strong women. And one lady really liked the layout that I did, and she's like, Can we do this in the community? I was like, I don't know. Let's try it. You know, if we don't try, we don't know. And then I went to the community for, I think, three years, we raised over $5,000 for different services that helped me along the way as well, and places that needed money for serving the community. And then we went virtual. When covid hit. The podcast came along, and I did that for five years, and I burnt myself out doing that. I'm an all or nothing kind of girl, so you either get nothing at all, or you get it all at once. So and and now I'm I've been writing and working on stuff and working on an E commerce business with a new way of serving tea, keeping people on their toes and wondering what's coming next. Uh, children's book is coming out soon. Uh, poultry book. So I've just been busy writing and doing a lot of different things. Michael Hingson ** 21:14 What did you do before 2015 for worker income? Or did you Elizabeth Gagnon ** 21:18 I worked in gas stations, chambermaid kind of stuff like that, something that wasn't too educated, because my ex husband didn't like that stuff, right? Don't try and be a leader. Don't try and be in the big business world. I'm sure he's his head is spinning now, seeing all the stuff that I'm doing, but that's on him, not me. So, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 21:41 yeah, absolutely, alright, let's get to it. Tell me about tea. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 21:49 Well, tea, tea started at four, and it was my OMA that gave me a cup of tea. And everybody thinks it's the beverage. It's not the beverage. We did have a cup of tea. So there is a beverage, there is a beverage involved. But she gave me words, and when I was little, I didn't understand these words. She said, reflect, recharge and release. And she came from the war in Germany, and she said the first thing I had was a cup of tea when I came to Canada, and she just knew that I was going to have a hard life. She knew that the family was kind of, you know, they had their sicknesses and addictions and stuff like that, so she just knew. And I was a quiet kid. I was always in the corner humming and rocking myself and doing stuff by myself. I didn't want to be around people. I was really loner. And she gave me these words, and these words resonated with me for years, and then I just kept hearing them, and I kept hearing Tea, tea. I know sometimes I'd be sitting in a room Michael by myself, and I'd be like, Okay, I don't want a cup of tea right now. Like, I don't know what this tea is like, but it was like the universe telling me that I needed to get tea out there. And I knew it wasn't a beverage. I knew it was. OMA gave me words. So we gotta bring words to the table. We gotta bring the stories to the table. She was giving me a story. She was telling me to stay strong, to recharge, to reflect, release all of the stuff that all of these things take right, to overcome stuff. You know, we have to reflect on the journey that we were put on, and recharge ourselves when we overdo ourselves and release, releasing and letting go of things that we know will never, ever get an answer to. So, Michael Hingson ** 23:32 so you, what did you do with all of that? I mean that those are some pretty deep thoughts. Needless to say. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 23:38 Yeah, so I, I started with the tea time at home, and then when I went to the podcast, I would ask people, What is your tea? And then people were like, Miss Liz, I don't even like tea, like I'm a coffee drinker, or I like a good beer, or I'm just like, Okay, well, you don't even have to like the beverage. Like, it's not about the beverage. It's about our past, our present and our future. That's what the tea is, right? We all have that story. We all have the past, the present and the future, and how we how we look at it, and how we defined our stories, and how we tell our stories. So that's where the T is. Michael Hingson ** 24:10 But you came up with words for the acronym eventually, yes, yes. When did you do that? And what were the words Elizabeth Gagnon ** 24:20 I came up with the words I believe in 20, 2016 2017 and for me, it was teaching. I wanted to be a little kindergarten teacher when I was a little girl. So T was teaching right and teaching myself that the past was not going to define my future story. He was educational. I again. I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to educate people. I wanted to educate myself. Even though I didn't have those degrees and I didn't go to school and universities, I could still educate myself. I could still reach out. I could still research. I could still find answers myself. And a was awareness, just bringing awareness that our lives are different and. Can change them, right? Nobody can define how our stories end, except for ourselves. Yeah, and the A, A was awareness, and the awareness that, you know, that we can bring any form of awareness, good, bad or ugly, you know, and I bring a little bit of all of it through my stories, and through, through the the overcoming that I've had, right is, it's an ugly story. There were bad things that happened, but there are good results in the end, yeah, because had I not gone through what I went through, Michael, I would not be here having this conversation with you tonight, Michael Hingson ** 25:37 or it'd be a totally different conversation, if at all you're right, absolutely. So you you deal a lot with being a mental health advocate, and that's very understandable, because of all of the things that that you went through. But what kind of really made you decide to do that? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 25:58 Mental health advocate was deep in my blood since 2010 when I went to the pharmacy and gave them all my medication and said, I no longer want any of this because they had me so numbed with antidepressants and painkillers and stuff that I didn't even know I had children. People were telling me, your kids are coming for a visit. And I was like, why are you telling me I have kids? Like I'm a kid myself, like I was going backwards. And I didn't know that I was married, that I had children, but my kids names were and I was just like, like, When is mom and dad coming to get me? Like, I was like, I was so messed up, Michael. And I was just like, I'm not doing this anymore. Um, August 29 of 2009 I brought my medication, and I said, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm taking ownership of my life. I'm being the advocate of my life. I do not need these pills. Yes, it will be hard, yes, I've got trauma, but there's another way of doing this. Michael Hingson ** 26:55 Well, you're clearly a survivor, and you've made choices that demonstrate that by any standards, and obviously a mental health advocate, what do you think are some of the major misconceptions that people have about mental health today that they also just don't seem to want to get rid of? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 27:15 Well, a lot of people have this conception that if you take a pill, it's going to go away. You're healed, you know, and then they get hooked on pills, or they get hooked on this is easy fix, right? Like I said this afternoon in another interview, I did this certain this afternoon. Michael, you know, we get these diagnosis, but doctors don't really sit with us and explain the diagnosis to us, they don't really understand. They don't really explain the side effects of the pills that they're giving us, and then themselves, may not even know the full aspect of those diagnosis. They just put you on a checklist, right? You check A, B, C and D, okay. Well, you have bipolar. You got DCE and you got D ID, like, you know, it's charts, so we're not really taking the time to understand people. And mental health has a long way to go, a lot of a long way to break the stigma as well, because mental illness, most of it, cannot be seen. It cannot be understood, because it's inside the body, right? Michael Hingson ** 28:23 Yeah. And a lot of people don't want to look and analyze that and try to help truly deal with it. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 28:32 Yeah. A lot of people will judge what they don't understand or what they're scared of understanding, Michael Hingson ** 28:39 which is why it's fascinating, and we've had a number of people on unstoppable mindset who believe in Eastern medicine and alternative medicine, as opposed to just doing pills. And it's fascinating to talk to people, because they bring such insights into the conversation about the human body, and many of them have themselves, used these alternatives to cure or better themselves, so it makes perfect sense, but yeah, we still don't tend to want to deal with it. Yeah? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 29:17 Well, anything that's uncomfortable, right? We don't want to really face it, right? We want to run from it, or we want to say, Oh, it's fine. I'll get to it next week, and then next week comes to next month, and next month comes to next year, and you're still dealing with the the same trauma and the same pain, right? Yeah. Michael Hingson ** 29:35 Well, so tell me about tea time with Miss Liz, because you've developed that. You've brought it into existence, and that obviously also helps deal with the mental health stigma. Tell me about that? 29:50 Well, I just Michael Hingson ** 29:51 one question, but, well, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 29:53 I just really wanted to meet people, and I wanted to hear their stories, you know, because it gets lonely once in a while. And you're always telling your story, right? So I wanted to get other stories, but I didn't want to just deal with mental health. I wanted to deal with grief and abuse and things, everything that I've lived with, right? And it all goes back to trauma, like all three of them, abuse, grief, mental health, it deals with trauma in some form. And then I got, I got hooked to a bunch of people that found Miss Liz on on the airwaves, and then connected with you, Michael, you were a guest on Tea Time. Yeah, my last season, and, you know, and I got to go down a bunch of rabbit holes with a bunch of cool people. And tea time was just a place for everybody, just to come and share, share what they were doing and why they were doing it, right? So a lot a lot of the questions that I asked was your younger self way? What? How do you see your younger self to your older self, and why are you doing what you're doing today? And a lot of people are writing books because writing saved them through hard times in life as well. And a lot of mental health back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, were not spoken of. You know, it was really hush hush. Oh, that person's just a rebel, or that person's just a little crazy once in a while, or has too much to drink from time to time. So mental health wasn't really spoken about in those those decades, right? So, Michael Hingson ** 31:27 yeah, and you know, but I hear what you're saying about writing, and you know, I I've written now three books, and I've learned a lot as I write each book, and I think there's a lot of value in it, but also it's more than writing, although writing is is a way to to really do it from the most personal standpoint possible. But as as you've pointed out, talking about it is also extremely important, and talking about whatever, whether it's a bad thing or a good thing, but talking about it as well as writing about it is is valuable, because if we take the time to do all of that, we'll learn a lot more than we think we will well. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 32:13 And there's so many different genres of writing, right? There's horror, there's fiction, there's non fiction, there's children's books, you know, but those are all storytellers too, in a different way. Michael Hingson ** 32:24 Well, they are and and again, it's the the point is, though, that when you take the time to write, you really have to think about it, probably even more than, sometimes, than people, when they just talk about things. And as you're writing, like I said, you learn a lot no matter what genre of writing you're doing, you're putting yourself into it, and that, in of itself, helps educate and teach you Elizabeth Gagnon ** 32:53 absolutely, you know, and I learned so much from a lot of the authors that were on Tea Time, You know, little tricks and little ways of making skits and scenes and characters and names for their characters. And I'd be like, well, where'd you get that name? And they'd be like, I don't know what, just a childhood name that was stuck with me for a long time. I really liked meeting authors that wrote their memoirs or stories, because I'm a person that likes truth. I'm a truth seeker. You know, if it doesn't, it doesn't match up. I'm just like, let me ask you more questions. Let me take you down this rabbit hole a little more. So, Michael Hingson ** 33:35 yeah, well, a lot of people tend to not want to talk about their journey or talk about themselves, and they feel unseen and unheard. How would you advise them? What would you advise them to do? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 33:51 I felt that way for many years. Michael, growing up in the in the situation that I grew up in, right? You did, and I wrote my first book. I was a co author in the Sacred Hearts rising series by compiled by Brenda Hammond in Alberta. And her book, hear me, kept reaching out to me. I kept hearing I didn't even know what the book was. It was just the title was hear me. And I kept saying, I want people to hear me. I want I want to be heard like, I want people to know this, like I'm tired of living in silence, you know, just to keep everybody hush hush, because everybody's comfortable. So I reached out to Brenda, and that's how my writing journey started. Was with Brenda, and I wrote my first chapter in there, and and it just continued to the ripple effect into other books and other anthologies and other people. And I find that the universe is guiding me, like bringing me to the people that I need to see. You know, like meeting you. Michael, like, had I not started a podcast and met Mickey Mickelson, I would have never met you. Michael, so Mm hmm. Michael Hingson ** 34:54 And he continues to to be a driving force in helping a lot of authors. Absolutely. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 35:00 Absolutely, yeah. I'm not even sure how Mickey found me. We had a video call, and the next thing I knew, we were working together for three years, and I got to meet incredible authors through Mickey. Creative edge, and it's, it was one of the driving force of Tea Time with Miss Liz. Michael Hingson ** 35:19 I can't remember exactly how I first heard of Mickey, either, but we we chatted, and we've been working together ever since. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 35:29 Yeah, Mickey is pretty awesome. I still keep my eyes on Mickey, yeah, Michael Hingson ** 35:36 and for those who don't know, Mickey is kind of a publicist. He works with authors and helps find podcasts and other opportunities for authors to talk about what they do and to interact with the world. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 35:50 Yeah. And then I got Yeah. And then I got to meet other people that found me on the airwave, through my press releases and through me speaking at different events. I had other people reach out with their authors and their members and all of that. And I got to meet some really incredible people, like I've had doctors on Tea Time. I've had Hollywood directors on Tea Time. I've had best selling authors like yourself Michael, like, you know, I got to meet some really incredible people. And then I got to meet other people as well that were doing movements and orphanages and stuff like that. We reached over 72 countries, you know, just people reaching out and saying, Hey, Miss Liz, can we have tea? And absolutely, let's sit down. Let's see what? Where you gotta go with your tea? Michael Hingson ** 36:35 So you're in another season of tea time right now. No, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 36:39 I'm not. A lot of people are asking me to come back. I don't know if I will come back. I am working on, like I said, the E commerce drop shipping company for Miss Liz. I'm working on children's book. I'm working on poultry. I'm doing a lot of interviews now for my own books, daytime books and stuff like that. But I am reconsidering coming back maybe for a couple surprise podcast interviews. So Michael Hingson ** 37:07 well, tell us about the E commerce site, the store. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 37:11 Well, that was supposed to be launched on my birthday. I like to give myself birthday gifts because I'm by myself a lot. So two years ago, I gave myself the tea books for my birthday. And this year I was supposed to give the E commerce drop shipping, where we opened a second branch of Miss Liz's tea, where we changed the letter A to E, so T, E, E instead of T, E, A. But if you look at my OMA, who comes from Germany, T in Germany, is tee, so we're still keeping almost T, we're just bringing it in a different way. And Michael Hingson ** 37:45 what does it stand for? Do you have definition Elizabeth Gagnon ** 37:50 of it for the for this T? We have transcend embrace and envision. So transcend beyond the story that we all tell. Embrace Your embrace the journey that you're on and envision your dreams and visions that you can move forward. Michael Hingson ** 38:07 So how's the E commerce site coming? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 38:11 It's coming along. We got a couple of hiccups. I just want to make sure that everything is good to go. We have over 100 different products, and again, we do not have the tea beverage on the site. So you guys can see that Miss Liz is staying true to herself, that it is not about a beverage, but we do have an inner journey happening. So you'll have to check that out. So we have some some candles and some journals, some fashion that Miss Liz has created. So there's a lot of cool things that you'll see, and then we have some collaboration. So if any of the businesses out there would like to collaborate with missus, because I'm big on collaboration, we can maybe come up with a brand or or a journal or something that we can work two brands together to create a bigger inner journey for people Michael Hingson ** 39:02 to enjoy. Is the site up. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 39:05 It was up, and we had to take it down because there were some glitches in it, and I wanted to make sure that it so we're hoping that it's going to be going for June 1. I don't like to set dates, because then I get disappointed, right? If something comes up. So it was supposed to be May 17, guys, and I know that a lot of people were looking forward to it. My children were looking forward to it because of the fashion. And there's something for everyone on on the new website, for children, for parent, for mothers, for fathers, for family. So I wanted to make sure that everybody was included. Michael Hingson ** 39:41 Tell me about some of the fashion things. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 39:44 So we have inner journeys. So I had an eating disorder from the age of 12 Michael, so I had a body image all the time. So I wanted to make sure that we felt beautiful about ourselves. So we have some summer dresses. In there, we have some swimwear. Swimwear was another thing that I didn't really like to wear growing up. I like to be covered a lot. So we and then we have undergarments for people to feel beautiful within themselves. And then we have hoodies and T shirts. But we have messages, little tea messages from Miss Liz. Michael Hingson ** 40:23 Now, are most of these fashion things mainly for women, or are there some men ones on there as well? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 40:28 No, we have men. Men have stories too. So there, there's, I thought. So, yeah, we have men in there. We and we have, I'm really big on having men share their stories, because I have a son. I've said this on many platforms. I would want my son to have the same services that his mother has. So of course, there's a men where in there, there are children's wear in there as well, and there's some puzzles and some diamond art and all of that. So there's a little bit of everything in there. Michael Hingson ** 41:00 So how do you use all of the different mechanisms that you have to promote awareness? I think I know the answer to this, but I'd like you to tell how you're promoting awareness, mental health and otherwise awareness. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 41:15 I think the way that I'm promoting myself and my brand, Michael is just show up and be yourself, believe in yourself and stay true to yourself, be your real tea, you know. And the way that I'm branding and marketing it is, I'm breathing different. So when you hear tea, you think the beverage right away. Well, then when you hear Miss Liz, you know, Miss Liz is not bringing a beverage. So right over the way you're getting different, right? And I like to keep people on your toes, because they think that they might know what's coming, but they don't know same as, like the fashion, where you might think you know what's coming, but then you'll be like, Whoa. This is not what I was thinking. Michael Hingson ** 41:54 And you and you put as you said, sayings and other things on there, which help promote awareness as Elizabeth Gagnon ** 41:59 well. Absolutely, yeah, and it's simple phrases that I use all the time. You tell me, I can't, and I'll show you I can. You know, it lives in you. These are some of the brand messages that I have on my on my merchandise. Also, men have stories too simple phrases. You know that we just gotta make awareness. It's so simple sometimes that we overthink it and we overdo it, that we just gotta keep it simple. Michael Hingson ** 42:28 Mm, hmm. Which? Which make perfect sense? Yeah. So you, you talk a lot about mental health. Have we made improvements in society regarding mental health, and how do we do more to represent marginalized voices? Oh, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 42:50 we got lots of work to do. Michael, we're not even close, you know, we're just on the touch of the iceberg for mental health. We have all these organizations that are competing with each other instead of collaborating. I think we would really make a huge difference if we started working together instead of against each other. Or my service is better than your service. Let's start just collaborating together and working together as one. You know that all this division in the mental health world is what's causing the distractions and the delays in services and and getting help? You know, I think we just need to start working together. And collaboration is not weakness. It's not taking somebody else's product away. It's working together. It's teamwork. And I think we need more teamwork out there. Michael Hingson ** 43:41 We also need to somehow do more to educate the governments to provide some of the funding that they should be providing to help this process. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 43:51 Absolutely, and I think the statuses need to really be looked at. They're not even close. Michael Hingson ** 43:59 Yeah, I I agree there, there's a long way to go to to deal with it, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 44:04 absolutely. You know, just throwing numbers out there to have numbers, but not actually getting the real factual information out there can cause a lot more damage. Michael Hingson ** 44:17 So if you could shift one mindset regarding mental health, what would it Elizabeth Gagnon ** 44:24 be? Oh, good question. Michael, hmm, that we're not alone, okay, because a lot of people with mental illness think they're alone, but we're actually not alone. There's, there's a lot of people out there that are feeling the same thing as us, Michael Hingson ** 44:47 and that's a mindset that people have, that we need to to deal with. We need to change. We need to teach people that the reality. Is there a lot of people, whether they've experienced the same things as as any individual has or not, isn't the issue. But there are a lot of people who do want to be more welcoming, and there are a lot of people who could learn to be more welcoming than they are Elizabeth Gagnon ** 45:18 absolutely Well, I think it starts with a conversation, right? Having these conversations, a lot of people don't want to talk about mental health because they don't want to know the truth. They just want to know what society says, right, what the system say, what the services say, but they're not actually advocating for themselves. I think if we all started advocating for our mental health, we would make the impact and the change as well, Michael Hingson ** 45:45 yeah, but we need to really, somehow develop a collective voice and Absolutely, and that's part of the problem. I know that with the world of disabilities in general, the difficulty is that, although it is probably well, it is one of the largest minorities, maybe the second largest in the world, depending on whether you want to consider women the minority. Although there are more women than men, or men the minority, the reality is that the difficulty is that there are so many different kinds of disabilities that we face and some that we don't even recognize. But the problem is that everyone totally interacts within their own disability to the point where they don't find ways to work together nearly as as much as they can. And it doesn't mean that each disability isn't unique, because they are, and that needs to be addressed, but there's a lot more power if people learn to work together Elizabeth Gagnon ** 46:46 exactly. I'm with you, with that, Michael, because there's so many disabilities that you don't see right, that you don't hear about, somebody will talk about a new diagnosis that nobody knows about or is unaware of, like when I, when I talk about conversion disorder, a lot of people don't know about it, and I'm just like, check it out. You know, I'm a lady that actually has crazy papers, so if I go a little crazy on people, I can get away with it. I got the paper for it, right? So, but the thing is, the doctors, they they need more education as well. They need to be educated as well, not just the society, not just the public, but also the doctors that are working in those Michael Hingson ** 47:29 fields. There's so many examples of that. You know, website access for people with disabilities is a major issue, and we don't teach in most schools, in most places where we where we have courses to instruct people on how to code, we don't really make making websites inclusive and accessible a major part of the courses of study, and so the result is that we don't tend to provide a mechanism where people shift their mindset and realize how important it is to make sure that their websites are fully inclusive to all. It's the same kind of concept. Yeah. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 48:12 Well, I think we all could learn a little bit more, right when we when we all get to this point where we we've learned everything. I think that's where society gets ignorant towards disability, right? You know, living with disability myself, Michael, I've had a lot of people say, Well, you look fine. There's nothing wrong with you. Why? Why? Why you like this? You know, why? And my answer is, why are you that way? Why are you judging something you're not seeing? You know, it's just like in grief, you don't see grief. It lives within us. You don't see abuse. The person is usually living within a home that is told what happens in the home. Stays in a home, you know, or they they try to mask it and hide the real truth, right? Yeah, and that, and that's a form of trauma as well, because we're being told to hush. So then when we start speaking, well, then we start doubting ourselves, right? The self doubt kicks in, oh, maybe I shouldn't say that, or I shouldn't do that, or I shouldn't, you know, be there. So you start to self doubt everything. I did that for many years. I self doubt why I was in a room with a bunch of people, or why I was speaking at that event, or why I wrote in that book, or and then I was just like, You know what? I am enough, and we all are enough, and we all can be seen in a different light. My Michael Hingson ** 49:41 favorite example illustrating some of what you're talking about is that I had a phone conversation with someone once, and arranged for them to come to our apartment. I was on campus at the time, living in an on campus apartment, and the guy came out that afternoon, and I answered the door and he said, I'm looking for Michael Hinks. And I said, I'm Michael. Hanks, and his comment was, you didn't sound blind on the telephone. Now, I've never understood what it means to sound blind, but whatever. Wow. Yeah, it's, it's amazing, you know. And I was polite enough not to say, Well, you didn't sound stupid on the phone either. But yeah, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 50:22 right, that that would, that would be something I would say. Now, back in the day, I was a little mouse, now I'm a lion, and I'm just like, oh, yeah, right. Like, tap for Taft man, like, Michael Hingson ** 50:33 Well, yeah, but there, there are ways to deal with things like that. But it, it still worked out. But it was just an amazing thing that he said, yeah, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 50:43 it surprises me what some people say. Sometimes I'm just like, Really, wow. Michael Hingson ** 50:50 So you've done well, a lot of international speaking. Where have you traveled to speak? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 50:55 I spoke in Detroit in 2020, 20 or 2021, I can't remember the year Michael, but I spoke at the Sean fair tour, and I spoke on tea, of course, and my journey, and my story and my journey on how I'm just a different woman who wants to come to the table and make a difference. I just want to show people that if as long as we're trying, we can make a difference, as long as we're showing up, tired, broke, frustrated, we're making a difference, you know? And that's, that's my message to everybody, is just show up, just be you, and not everybody needs to like you, you know. I'm not everyone's cup of tea, and I don't want to be everyone's cup of tea. Michael Hingson ** 51:38 Mm, hmm. You can only do and should only do what you do, yeah, but Elizabeth Gagnon ** 51:44 And yeah. And then I'll be speaking in October. I just spoke at an event here in Cornwall, in my local area, for empowered to recovery with Jay Bernard. Bernard, and in October, I'll be speaking in North Bay for an elementary student, my sister and she actually went to school with my sister. She actually found me through my books. And she's she runs this youth group, and she'd like me to go speak to the youths on empowerment and and and the tea, of course, Michael Hingson ** 52:16 always worth talking to kids. It's so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. And the neat thing about the most neat thing about speaking to children is there's so much more uninhibited. They're not afraid to ask questions, which is so great. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 52:32 I love questions like, I I love when I talk to people and they have some questions like, What? What is this tea that you keep talking about? And I'm just like, the tea is just the grab guys. It's just to get you hooked. It's like going fishing and catching a good fish, like, I put the hook in the water, and you all come and you join and you have a tea with me. Michael Hingson ** 52:56 But still, children are so much more uninhibited. If, if I deliver a talk, mainly to kids, even kindergarten through sixth or seventh grade, they're much more open to asking questions. Sometimes they have to be encouraged a little bit. But boy, when the questions start, the kids just keep coming up with them, which is so great. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 53:20 Great. It's that ripple effect that first person to break the ice, to ask the first question, and then it just rolls. Michael Hingson ** 53:26 It's a lot harder with adults to get them to to do that. Yeah, and it is. It is, even then, though, when adults start to ask questions, and the questions open up, then we get a lot of good interactions, but it is more of a challenge to get adults to open and ask questions than it is children. And it's so much fun because you never know what question a child is going to ask, which is what makes it so fun, too, because there's so much more uninhibited Elizabeth Gagnon ** 54:01 and the imagination of a child. I love speaking like what my granddaughter, she's four, and the conversations we have about dragons and tooth fairies and and good monsters, because I don't like bad monsters, she knows grandma doesn't like bad monsters, so we talk about good monsters. And it's just the stories, the imagination, that opens up new, new ways of seeing things and seeing life. Yeah, Michael Hingson ** 54:29 you've gotten a number of awards, humanitarian awards, and and other kinds of awards. Tell me a little bit about those. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 54:36 Honestly, Michael, I don't know how I got those awards. I was just being myself, and I guess a lot of people nominated me for stuff, and they were just like, you gotta check this. Miss Liz out, you know, and even some awards, I'm just like, Why me? You know, all I did was be myself. I'm grateful for them, I and I appreciate the awards. But. I don't, I don't want to be known for the awards, if that makes any sense. Michael Hingson ** 55:03 Mm, hmm, I understand well, but you've been successful. What does success mean to you? Elizabeth Gagnon ** 55:10 Success means showing up for myself. Michael Hingson ** 55:14 Tell me more about that. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 55:17 Of course. You know, success is different for everybody, right? Some people want the million dollars they want. They want the best seller they want. You know, they want the big business. They want the big house. For me, success is just showing up. Growing up. Nobody showed up for me. So I knew at a young age I had to show up for myself, and that was my success story. Was just showing up. There's days I really don't want to be here. I'm just tired of showing up, but I still show up tired, you know. So that's my success story, and I think that's going to be my success story until the day I die. Michael is just show up. Michael Hingson ** 55:58 Well, there's a lot to be said for showing up, and as long as you do show up, then people get to see you, right? Yeah, which is, which is the whole point. And again, as we talked about earlier, that's the choice that you made. So you decided that you were going to show up and you were going to be you, and you also talk about it, which is, I think, extremely important, because so many people won't, not a criticism. But last year, I spoke at the Marshfield, Missouri Cherry Blossom Festival in April of 2024 and it was a and every year they hold this festival, and it's a celebration of American history. One of the people there was a secret service agent who rode in the car right behind JFK when he was assassinated, and it took him 45 years before he could talk about it. It was that traumatic for him, and he just wasn't able to move on. Eventually he was able to talk about it, and he was at the festival, as I was last year, and did speak about it. But it's it is hard, it is a major endeavor and effort to make the choice to show up, to to face whatever you have to deal with and move on from it or move on with it. I, you know, I talk about Karen, my wife passing, and I will never say I move on from Karen. I continue to move forward, but I don't want to move on. I don't want to forget her Absolutely. And there's a big difference between moving on and moving forward. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Michael, no, that's it. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 57:45 You know, we look at life differently, right? Different perspectives and, and that's the whole thing with the T is looking at life differently. We all have a past, we all have a present, and we all have a future, right? And it's how we look at our past. Do we stay stuck in our past, like a lot of people are, mislead your in the past? No, I'm not. I speak of the past, but I'm not in the past. I'm in the present moment, and my trauma is real and it's raw, and I'm dealing with it, and I'm healing from it. And the future, I don't know where the future's taking me. I just buckle up and go for the adventure and see where it takes me. If it means writing another book or it means taking a trip or getting a job in a third world country, that's where I go. I'm, you know, moving forward from all of the trauma that I've lived through. I don't want to forget it. Mm, hmm. A lot of people like I would you change anything? No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't change a single thing. Michael Hingson ** 58:45 There's a difference between remembering and being aware of it and being bitter and hating it. And I think that's the important part, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 58:53 yeah. And speaking of the past is not it's not a bad thing. It because the past is part of us, right? We were little kids once upon a time like there, you know, not everything was all bad. There was good moments. You know, there was more bad times for me than there was good, but there were good moments. I had good memories of spending with my grandparents on the farm and, you know, playing in the wrecked up cars and pretending I was a race car driver and stuff like that, you know, playing in the mud, making mud pies, putting them in the oven. You know, these were good memories that I have, you know, so those are what I hold on to. I hold on to the good stuff. I don't hold on to that heavy stuff. Michael Hingson ** 59:33 Well, at least at this point, what do you see in the future for Miss Liz Elizabeth Gagnon ** 59:39 travel? I so want to travel. I, you know, I've traveled the world, well, 72 countries, in this rocking chair. I would like to take this rocking chair in person. I would like to have a stage. I would like to have people come and talk and share their stories on a miss Liz's platform stage. That is the goal for Miss Liz. Michael Hingson ** 1:00:01 To travel and to really meet people from a lot of new and different places, Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:00:07 absolutely, and meet all the guests I had on Tea Time. That is one of my goals. So when the universe gets on my good side, maybe I'll be traveling and meeting you face to face one day, Michael, Michael Hingson ** 1:00:18 or we'll travel up there when, when we can, I know right now there are many challenges because of our governments putting roadblocks in the way. I've applied to speak at several events in Canada, and I've been told right now, well, the political situation, political situation is such that we can't really bring anybody in from the United States. And, you know, I understand that. I I think that there's so much to add, but I also understand that they don't want to take those chances, and that's fine. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:00:48 Yeah, we've been told the same, no traveling, vice versa. There's so, you know, it will calm itself down. We just got to give it some Michael Hingson ** 1:00:57 time. It will, you know, it isn't going to go on forever, and we'll just have to deal with it. Well, if you had the opportunity to go back and give your younger Miss Liz some advice, what would it be? Drink More tea. Drink More tea of the liquid kind or the other kind. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:01:17 No. Drink the real stuff like drink, the beverage, drink the real stuff. Like, you know, speaking of tea all the time, you know, my favorite tea is jasmine tea. I wish I could drink more jasmine tea, but when I drink jasmine tea, it brings it brings back a memory of my Uma, and it it's hard for me so but drink more tea, like, actually sit down and have more conversations with OMA and see what else OMA had in Michael Hingson ** 1:01:44 the back there for her. Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, I, I must say, I've never been a coffee drinker, but I got converted to drinking tea years ago, and I've been doing it ever since. My favorite is PG Tips, black tea, and I can get it from Amazon, so we do it. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:01:59 That's a good one too. Yeah, I'm not a real big tea drinker, but guys, I do know a little bit about tea. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:06 Well, I drink it more because it's a hot drink and it's got less calories than hot chocolate. Otherwise, I would be drinking hot chocolate all the time. But after September 11, I tend to clear my throat a lot, so drinking hot beverages helps, and I've just never liked coffee like I've learned to like tea, so I drink tea. Elizabeth Gagnon ** 1:02:26 Yeah. What's for you? Yeah, he's good for you. Look what it did to me. It made me who I am today. Michael Hingson ** 1:02:32 There you are in so many ways. Well, I want to than

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Psalm 124: The LORD Is on Our Side