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Episode 33: Emergency ManagementA discussion about the role of emergency management and the emergency manager in active shooter events.Bill Godfrey:Welcome to the Active Shooter Incident Management podcast. My name is Bill Godfrey, I'm your host of the podcast. Today we're going to be talking about the role of emergency management and the emergency manager in active shooter events. Something that doesn't always get a lot of coverage, but certainly an important topic. We're glad to have you with us today. I've got with me three of the instructors from C3 Pathway. Stephen Shaw out of North Carolina. Steve, it's good to see you again. Been awhile.Stephen Shaw:Good to see you, Bill. Thank you for having me.Bill Godfrey:Absolutely. And we've got back with us Robert McMahan. Retired out of Colorado, now living in Oklahoma.Robert McMahan:Yeah, it's a great place to be. Thanks for having me again.Bill Godfrey:And a familiar voice, we've got with us Bruce Scott out of Jacksonville, retired, but down here in the house. Bruce, how you doing?Bruce Scott:I'm doing well, Bill, and yourself?Bill Godfrey:Doing well, doing well. Guys, thanks for coming in to talk about this with us today. So as I said in the opening, the subject here is emergency management and the role it plays in an active shooter event, and I kind of want to set the stage here a little bit as we start to talk about this topic. Senior-ranking officials in law enforcement, fire, EMS certainly understand the role of emergency management. Usually have some sort of involvement with emergency management. But as you move down towards the line level, Bruce, would you say it's fair to say they're aware of emergency management but not necessarily real clear on what they can do for us and where we fit it?Bruce Scott:Absolutely, and I'll share with you, Bill, we're both from Florida and most of your folks in Florida, your typical first responders in Florida, they're going to tell you that emergency operation centers are for hurricanes. That's it.Bill Godfrey:And wildfires.Bruce Scott:Yeah.Bill Godfrey:Yeah.Robert McMahan:Yeah, in Colorado that was for snow storms.Bill Godfrey:Oh, there you go. What'd you guys use them for in North Carolina, floods?Stephen Shaw:Hurricanes, floods.Bill Godfrey:Hurricanes? Okay. All right, fair enough. So what we're going to talk about today, gang, is the role of emergency management in an active shooter event. And it's actually very significant and very consequential and can make a pretty big difference in your incident, especially if you fail to think about it early on. Bruce, I'm going to go to you to start us off here a little bit and kind of set the stage for the audience on some of the challenges that will come up on nearly every active shooter event that go a whole lot better if you've got emergency management there with you.Bruce Scott:Well, Bill, you mentioned if we have this active shooter incident, and the role of emergency management will play, but let's talk about also the role that they might have, or should have, or could have prior to this incident ever happening in your community. Emergency management typically has mechanisms to bring trainings. All right? They're the ones working the grounds. They're the ones building these relationships and partnerships across organizational boundaries that can allow us to train and work together. So emergency management is actually a player long before that incident ever happens, and I think that's important.Bill Godfrey:I think that's a really good point, the pre-event involvement. What are some of the other places that jump out in your head for pre-event involvement? Resources-Bruce Scott:Yeah.Bill Godfrey:Relationships with NGOs?Bruce Scott:Absolutely. So you know, your faith-based organizations, your volunteer organizations, your other agencies that may live and work in your community. There's a really good chance that emergency management has previously established relationships with those organizations. They also have planned with them, right? They've worked and built those relationships. We talked years ago about the whole community approach to emergency management and the whole community approach brought in all these NGOs, all these faith-based organizations, into emergency management planning. As well as the individuals that live and work in our communities.Bill Godfrey:Schools?Bruce Scott:Absolutely. I know you're giving me the cross-eyed look like I missed that, right? I didn't grab the low-hanging fruit and I apologize. I will share with you, yeah, not only... I remember a story when I worked in emergency management where one of our school had a active shooter situation happen in that school, and so every school in our district basically started calling emergency management and asking us what are our plans for reunification of our students? Looking to emergency management not only to have a plan but already know what that plan is and already be able to give them a blueprint of what that plan was to reunify their studentsAnd so we realize we missed the bus, really, on building those relationships with our schools and letting them know, "Hey this is your plan. We'll help you develop, give you some templates. We can give you some best practices, but this has got to be tailor-made to your own school." And we were really successful with that over the next two years and building those relationships with our schools. Long before it became the soup du jour, or active shooters became the soup du jour, was building those relationships with the schools to help them develop their plans, working with our law enforcement partners to talk about security. It might happen... Some of the security practices they can put in place in their schools to make them safer. But then drilling, and working, and exercising with those schools to make sure that the school board, law enforcement, fire, EMS, emergency management, we were all on the same page.Bill Godfrey:I think that's a great list of stuff, and I want to come back and pick up on a couple of those. But before we do, I think I want to go back to the very beginning of this thing. So, Steve, Robert, I'm going to come to you guys to talk a little bit about those operational actions that are going to go on for pretty much any active shooter event. And I'm not talking about the first 15 minutes, 20 minutes of neutralizing the threat and the initial response and taking care of the injured. In most cases, that's going to happen, for better or worse, fairly quickly, we hope. Talk to me a little bit about what happens. So you've got... Your threat's either neutralized or not a factor, and you've got your last of your injured transported. What are the things that's going to happen at that point moving forward? Take me through the operations of that.Robert McMahan:Well, you're going to have impact on the local area as far as transportation, effects on businesses, and you're going to have to have some of those relationships ironed out beforehand. As I'm sitting here talking about it, I'm thinking about Las Vegas. You look at that shooting that occurred there, and if emergency management hadn't had some working relationship with the casinos and businesses that were impacted by that shooting, I think it would've been a lot bigger disaster than what it was. There's crime scenes to be investigated, and there's just a lot of logistics that go on supporting that crime scene investigation and managing that incident in the aftermath of the shooter and rescuing victims. And puts law enforcement on post to manage crime scene, to take care of victims, to move people around, and it just consumes a lot of resources that puts those people out there for a long time, and that takes support. It takes food, and shelter, and all kinds of things that help make that successful and support those first responders and community while they're out there dealing with that aftermath.Stephen Shaw:I think that's one thing that gets taken for granted, he mentioned the crime scene. This is an active crime scene that has to be processed. We have people there, there's going to be bags laying around that we have to check and search. What do we do with these people? If this is an active business or a school, what about the people that were there? We have to interview all those people, and now we have to follow up with them. We talk about reunification a lot for schools, but what if this happens in a business where people are... And one of the things that we have locally is a lot of people work at the university, and they park off-site and they ride a shuttle.So how are we going to get these people back there? So a lot of that, just the logistics of working a crime scene that large with that many people involved, I think, is taken for granted. That's where emergency management, like Robert was saying, you're going to have police officers that are going to be on post for a long time, and I think a lot of times people don't understand that. And I think that's where emergency management comes in to get these people food, relief, shelter, water, things like that that a lot of times, just on the patrol level, you don't think about. Or even at the first line supervisor level, you don't think about that kind of stuff.Robert McMahan:And the civilians, too, you know? I already mentioned Las Vegas, but think of a mall or anything else like that that's a business where people flee the scene or they go shelter and their transportation or belongings, or whatever it is becomes part of that crime scene and they can't get to it. Those people are going to need support to get reestablished somewhere else or in a shelter until they can get back to normal.Bill Godfrey:I think these are all really great examples of the kinds of things that emergency management can and needs to be involved in. It's interesting, Steve and Robert, you guys are talking mostly about the impacts at the site. And Bruce mentioned the community impact, and that's one of the things that I don't know that always gets really well-considered or thought out of. Yes, we have all these responders at the scene. We're going to have needs at the scene. We're going to have logistics requirements. The crime scene may go on for days if not weeks. There may be some security require... That's all at that scene.But if it's a school, what are we doing about the other schools? Are they being put on lockdown or secured? To what degree? What's the communication going on with the parents? What's the location that we've shut down? How widespread is that? How are we going to communicate that? How are we going to work traffic around it? Is it going to interrupt transportation or shuttle commuter operations? Things like that. Bruce, how big a deal do you think that is for emergency management to be on top of that as opposed to the incident commander that's overseeing the site focused on his site? Is that a good delineation of-Bruce Scott:Absolutely. And I'll share with you, there's actually a FEMA class out there that I took a long time ago. It was the ICS/EOC interface, and it was talking about that relationship that has to happen between the on-scene incident commander and the emergency operation center. And the role that emergency operation centers can... What emergency operation center or emergency managers bring to the table in support of those incident commanders. And it basically forces the emergency managers in the class to look at it through the incident commander's eyes, and it forces the incident commanders to look at it through the emergency manager's eyes. And it really is a fantastic class to kind of look at how the other half lives and what their roles and responsibilities are.I'll share with you that that on-scene incident commander's dealing with the here and now, and what happens next, but all those things that Robert and Steve talked about that we've kind of alluded to, if emergency management's doing their job, those plans may very well be in place. They may already have those relationships established, so quickly and efficiently bring those resources into the fight. Simple things like transportation. You start talking about moving 100s of students somewhere where you can secure them and interview them, as Steve said. Somewhere that is not on the crime scene. How are we going to do that? And relationships with emergency managers, letting them know they can pick up that phone and have that conversation with that emergency manager, and they have those pre-established relationships. They potentially have contracts in place to be able to execute city buses, school buses, or other forms of transportation to move those students, right?We often talk about emergency managers... How important a role they have with that whole subject of complex coordinated attacks, and we talk about an area command staging, we talk about huge resource requests and we're going to bring them into our jurisdiction. You start bringing that amount of resources into your jurisdiction, how are you going to support them? Simple things like a place to go to the bathroom, mechanical issues, fuel, food. You have to be able to support those resources. You just can't bring them and sit them. You want to be able to support them. So I think that we kind of talked about that relationship that happens, but I think it's important that everybody, every first responder, every emergency manager, understand that relationship can't be built on the day that the bad thing's happening. You want to do them beforehand.Robert McMahan:And that's especially important if you get into an event that lasts a long time. You get into multi-operational periods because those things just take a lot more resources to support the resources. A lot more logistics involved to feed and shelter and provide basics for people.Bill Godfrey:Absolutely. Bruce, you mentioned the ICS/EOC interface class was a great class. I think one of the fascinating things, to me, and we all enjoy doing this, is when we have emergency managers in the training classes, not only do we have them play the EOC role, we also have one of the emergency managers be a liaison at the command post.Stephen Shaw:Absolutely.Bill Godfrey:So that they do get that first-hand experience, and the exchanges... What I almost always hear, whether it's during the scenario or in the hot wash afterwards is the discussion about the emergency manager saying, "I didn't realize how fast and furious and chaotic the information is that's coming in." And then you end up with the incident commander going, "Yeah, I had all these things that came up and I didn't know how I was going to deal with them," but the emergency manager said, "I can take that, I can do that, we can work on that, we can handle this."And so there's this kind of common understanding, and I would go so far as to say I think that's a best practice for emergency management operations across the country to not only stand up their EOC, whether it's a full activation or a partial activation, but also have one of their EM persons go to the scene to be the liaison directly at the command post because if you're sitting at the EOC waiting on the phone to ring, but the incident commander doesn't know to call you, as opposed to being in the command post and hearing, like you said, the discussion come up, "We're going to need about 20 buses. We're going to need a facility to lock down and be able to use." And then they can hear those conversations and kind of volunteer. "Hey, we've got an option for that."Bruce Scott:And we talked about the dispatchers and the role that they play, and you start looking in these after-action reports and not being specific to any one of them, but you'll often find on there that senior leadership or emergency management was never notified of the incident. And so I think that's another place that we can tag our dispatchers in their role into our active shooter response, is to make sure there's some automatic notifications that go out to our emergency managers.Bill Godfrey:I think that's a really good point. Okay, I'm going to shift gears here a little bit. Bruce, you've got a saying that I want to bring out here for incident command and emergency management alike, and I really like this one. You know where I'm going with it, right?Bruce Scott:I do, yes sir.Bill Godfrey:All right, why don't you go ahead and tell the group, then?Bruce Scott:Well, I often ask folks when I'm doing a class, "Do you know what PPE stands for?" And everybody will shake their head, nod their head, and I'll say, "Well what does it stand for?" And they'll say, "Personal protective equipment." And I go, "No, that's wrong." And they look at me like I'm stupid, right? What do you mean it's wrong? And I'll say "No, you're right. PPE does stand for Personal Protective Equipment," but when you start talking incident management, especially significant incident management, what you need PPE for is the things that are going to effect our operations the most and that's personalities, politics, and egos. And if you can eliminate those three things out of our response, you're going to be way ahead of the game.And if I got a second here, Bill, I'd like to share with... One of the things as an incident commander you don't ever want to see coming into your incident command post is your senior elected officials. Start wandering in your command post asking questions. But the incident commander has to understand, we live in... We have forms of government in our country that our public expects our elected officials to be in charge. And we expect that. We expect them to be on the news. We expect them to be in front of the media.Bill Godfrey:Expect them to be engaged.Bruce Scott:Absolutely. But where they can engage best, often, is through emergency management. Emergency management with that executive policy group, our sheriffs and our other elected officials, if they understand they have a role and what that role is, and it's not being in the incident commander's pocket, we can both do our jobs.Bill Godfrey:Absolutely. So Robert, I'm going to come to you with a question and then, Steve, I'm going to come to you with a similar question. Now sanitize the details so that we're not talking about any one particular instance that... You're already grinning ear-to-ear. Can you tell us a story, tell the audience a story, about an experience that you've had one either of your many active shooter events that you've responded to or something similar where personalities, politics, and egos in the command post turned into an issue?Robert McMahan:Yeah, it did. And you want me to elaborate.Bill Godfrey:I do.Robert McMahan:Yeah.Bill Godfrey:But you can sanitize the details.Robert McMahan:Well, so the personalities, politics, and egos... I think the biggest one that we ever experienced was politics and having elected officials or high-level appointees try and steer or guide things, that's a polite way of saying it, to meet political agendas or political stances that certain people have. And I think this is a huge area that a good EM can head off, if he has those right relationships early on, and the politicians... In our case, it was county commissioners that ran the county. And we also had several chiefs of police and mayors. If you have a place for them to go and to be informed and the EOC's got a good situation unit running and they can come in there and talk, find out what's going on, express their views, then those things can get filtered back to the incident commander without all the personality, and politics, and egos attached to it. I think that's a good way to handle those things so that he's getting the message, but he's not getting interfered with in running the incident.Bill Godfrey:I think that's a real good point. Steve, any that jump out in your head? Again, remember to sanitize the details.Stephen Shaw:Yeah, I think it's important to remember that politics doesn't just show up with elected officials. You can have inter-agency politics. Politics between your agency and another one in your own county.Bill Godfrey:Good point.Stephen Shaw:We had an incident recently. In the area where I work, we have several different law enforcement agencies that are very close and there's actually two different law enforcement agencies that are inside my own city. So there's my city, and then two different police departments inside of that. So to make a long story short, we had an incident. It turned out to be a false alarm, but we were... My agency was running the incident on another agency's property, pretty much. But the politics came into play when we started to believe that it was maybe a false alarm. The interest shifted from community safety to we want to get stuff back open. And I think as first responders, a lot of times we feel like our community safety interest is the biggest thing, or is the most important thing, and it should trump everything else.But I think we have to keep in mind that not everybody ultimately answers that public safety or community safety question. They have other people that are going to say, "Well why do we lose all this money over a false alarm? Why was traffic jammed up for two hours because you were clearing a building or whatever the case is?" So I think it's just important that sometimes we step back to say this person may be pushing us in a direction that we don't want to go, but there's another reason for that. And what we were talking about earlier about building those relationships ahead of time, a lot of times will head that stuff off. In my limited experience, I've kind of seen that. Good relationships on the front end usually lead to good decisions being made during the incident.Bill Godfrey:Yeah, I think that's a really good point. You have to recognize that people from different walks are going to have different perspectives and just because it doesn't agree with our own, we shouldn't be dismissive of it. It's important to understand-Bruce Scott:Everybody has a role.Bill Godfrey:Yeah, yeah. It really is.Robert McMahan:Those relationships can also head off attempts by people that aren't running the incident to go off and do things that aren't helpful to the incident. And we were involved in an extensive gun battle at point where an officer was killed, and we had some elected officials that... Well, one elected official that decided to go off and do something on their own. Grandstanding a bit, but it wasn't helpful to the incident and it wasn't coordinated with the incident. So having these relationships early on helps people to understand how they can help and how they can be involved and still have their involvement that they should as elected officials, but not getting outside the incident itself and not creating other problems for the community.Bill Godfrey:Yeah, I think that's a really good point. The example that I would give, I was working for a large organization and we'd had a significant disaster that hit really... The scope and scale caught us quite by surprise. And weren't as prepared as we would have liked to have been. So we were trying to get organized and get everything stood up. The EOC was at full activation. We had our leadership team, and once it came into visibility how serious the situation was, the county manager walked into the EOC executive leadership briefing, I was the planning manager on this one, and grabs the whiteboard and says, "This is how I want the response organized." And he proceeds to give everybody his version, and he used to be a utilities manager and so when you kind of put that lens on it you understand where he was coming from.He gives everybody his version of how the sticks and box work structure should be set up, and it's not got a single ICS term in it. It's completely foreign. It's the first time anybody's ever heard it, seen it, and I'm sitting there listening to it and I'm thinking, "This is what happens when leadership doesn't come to training." When the senior executives who have a certain amount of, shall we say, unchecked power, don't participate in the training and don't necessarily get this. And the whole room just kind of fell silent and nobody really... He says, "Any questions?" And nobody asks any questions and he puts the marker down and he walked out of the room. And the fire chief at the time kind of looked at the table, and I just kind of motioned to him and said, "Hey, give me five minutes. Let's just take a recess for five minutes and come back." And I went in the other room with a couple of the other people from my team and we sat down and we mapped out what we'd just been told by the county manager back to an ICS structure.And so we used, for the reports and things that we gave him, because we didn't have any choice, we used the terminology that he had given us, but right below that was the terminology that everybody else was used to doing it. And it was just one of those kind of frustrating things that you don't need to come up at the time of the incident, but it just goes to show there's an awful lot of flexibility in what we do, and sometimes it can be better to try to find the path through than necessarily just resist, I guess would be the way to say that. Bruce, you got any that stick out in your head?Bruce Scott:Absolutely. I did want to share though, that's not unique to the community you came from. That's definitely not a unique thing. Our elected officials, their time is very important. Expect them to participate at the level of training that we may participate in is probably not realistic.Robert McMahan:Agreed.Bruce Scott:But what we can do, even it's a simple, I like to call them de-side-brief. Let that county emergency manager sit down with that... Or that emergency manager sit down with the city manager or the town council and have those 15 minute, kind of let me explain to you how we do business. And those conversations have to happen, and about the time you figure that you got it all down, then we go through another election cycle and we start all over again, right?Bill Godfrey:Oh yeah.Bruce Scott:It just never stops. The one that I'll share with you is during a hurricane response, we had pods, places for folks to come get food and water and tarps post-storm. And our elected officials took exception to the fact that there was certain areas of our town that didn't have those points of dispensing, and have those pods set ups. And even though in their part of the county, electricities were on, stores were open, so from an operational standpoint it made no sense for us to put a pod site in that part of the community.But our elected officials insisted if we were going to give away water and food and tarps in one part of our community, we needed to do it in all the parts of our community. So we were constantly fighting that fight as opposed to we need X number of resources to execute the mission that's needed, and now we need more resources to execute the mission that our politicians have said that's what you will do. So that's my personal reflection on that. And I often ask classes, you've probably heard me say it, Bill, does politics ever effect operations? 99.9% of the folks that we are involved with will all shake their heads in the affirmative.Bill Godfrey:Absolutely. All right, so I think those were some great examples. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk just briefly about logistics and the types of things that emergency management can bring to bare in short order if they need to. And I want to set this stage by saying the emergency manager can not only be your best friend, but he's got a lot of people on speed dial and you're going to want access to that speed dial. So Robert, in the events that you were a part of, I know a couple of them drug out over several days or actually even beyond that, right? What were some of the things that you saw come up from a logistics need in the long term? Not just day-of, but in the things that went on.Robert McMahan:Well, one of our events required evacuation of an apartment complex and so we had a lot of displaced civilians, and we were able to get a shelter set up and I was involved in getting that done. The incident commander says, "I need a shelter for these plays." So I knew, right away I called the emergency manager, get a shelter, and get Red Cross over there to feed people at that shelter. And so it was very easy for me to get that done because of the work the EM had done before establishing those relationships and able to get that supplied right away. And it just went spectacularly smooth compared to everything else that went on at that incident.So food, shelter, and even transportation. And you think of it like a mall, let's just say a mall. We know about reunification for schools, and most people are practicing that, but let's think about a mall for a minute. You got a Saturday afternoon at a mall, you have an event, and you got a bunch of teenagers at that mall. They get evacuated. We're going to need to establish a reunification for them, as well, because they're not going to be able to get to their cars. So having that EM that has those relationships and has those contracts and agreements in place that can support that is hugely important.Bill Godfrey:Steve, how about you?Stephen Shaw:Same stuff Robert talked about. Food, shelter, transportation. One thing that I did think about while he was speaking, I work in a community that has a lot of basketball NCAA type stuff, so we're heavy on EOC for preplanned events. And one of the things that the emergency managers in our county do help out a lot with is communications radios. If you get an event, even like an active shooter event, that lasts long enough you're going to have to bring some people... More than likely you're going to have to bring some people in from another jurisdiction, another area, and they may not have the same communication system as you. So we've always been able to pass out radios to these people so that we could talk to each other. Coordinating, getting those people there, giving them a place to stay, if it's something that is going to be shut down for awhile, how far are we willing to bring other police? Is it a driving distance type of thing or are we going to have to put them up for the night type of deal?A lot of times your agency commanders or incident commanders are not going to necessarily have the time or the resources to coordinate a lot of that stuff. And you can handle it either on the county level, or the state level. And that's the biggest thing that I've noticed. So we've been running an EOC throughout the entire COVID-19 pandemic, and that's one thing working with them that I've seen, they have... It's really taken a lot of pressure away from some of our town officials to pass that off to the counties and emergency management. To coordinate with the state, to coordinate with federal resources, and you could do the same thing if you have a spontaneous, like a active shooter event or a terrorist attack or whatever. Any time that you have somebody that... Or you have a lot of responders that are going to be on post for awhile, or you have logistics needs that you don't have at your agency, that's where your emergency management can come into play.Bill Godfrey:I'm curious, what about fencing? Does that come up as a regular issue for law enforcement when they've got a multi-day investigation? I remember it was a significant issue down at Pulse, and of course they were there for a very extended period of time, but pretty quickly brought in fencing to try to isolate the building and help them secure it a little bit better. Robert, has that come up for you before in anything you can recall?Robert McMahan:I haven't experienced that, but I can certainly see its value. I'm thinking wow, that would've been really smart to use at that incident. Yeah. And I think, you ask any law enforcement commander, "Where do you get some fence right now? You need 1000 yards of fence to put around this incident, where are you going to get it?" They're just going to scratch their head, they don't know. And these are the things that EMs bring to the table. Where do I get 300 radios for these other responders that I brought it? EM's probably got a cache of those, or they know where to get them. And those are the kinds of things that an EM that's worth their salt will have lined out and prepared in advance.Bill Godfrey:Good point. Steve, how about you? Have you had any where you guys have used fencing after the fact?Stephen Shaw:Not that I can recall. I know we use them a lot for the pre-planned events, the NCAA tournament games and things like that, but I don't know that we've had them for any of our spontaneous events. But yeah, I'm with Robert, I can think of a couple where it would've been nice to have some barriers up because we had a domestic incident at an elementary school one time, and it happened right in the front traffic circle of the elementary school and it was right about the time that the kids were getting ready to get released, and so we had parents that were literally walking into our crime scene on foot. We might not have been able to have it in the first couple of hours, but we did have that scene locked down for a little while, and that would've been a... I'm with Robert, and looking back on that it would've been a good thing to have there.But yeah, it's things like that that you don't think about, and I can speak from a patrol perspective. You don't think about these things. And even as a first line supervisor, you don't think about these things a lot of times. And that's where communication comes in. And your incident commander working with your emergency manager, if you have a supervisor on the ground or even just a responder on the ground that says, "Hey, I've got 50 parents coming at me walking up wanting to get to their kid." Emergency manager might can say, "Hey, I've got some temporary barriers at this place that we can toss up real quick." I mean, that's just communication I think would help.Bruce Scott:Or they know how to buy it. One of the things that we talked about, they have the direct line to our elected officials, Bill, and we often talk about a local state of emergency, whether that's at the municipal level or the county level. Well what that does, if you can get that chief elected officials to declare that local state of emergency, that changes the way government can buy things 99% of the time. All right? So we don't have to go out, wait 60 days, get three quotes for fence, or wood, or in my case was lumber on a collapsed building. Where are we going to get four by four's to search a collapsed building? That local state of emergency, that emergency manager knows how to get that executed. And that local state of emergency, like I said before, changes the rules of government for a short period of time and it allows us to do things quicker than we normally could on a day-to-day basis.Bill Godfrey:Yeah, I absolutely agree. I think my most stunning experience with emergency management, we had a... Ironically, you'd never think that this would happen. We had a large nursing... It was a 450 patient nursing home. Very, very big. Multi-stories and spread out. And it was large enough that they had very large water chiller AC units. Now, this is in Florida so you think an AC is probably a pretty important issue. And for whatever reason, the thing that broke, and I never really understood what it was, but something broke, and these things went from blowing nice, cool air, because it was the middle of summer, to blowing air out of the vents that was about 110 degree air. It just had run away hot air. And you start thinking how do you do that?And we started having medical emergencies with the patients almost immediately. It was really a very, very difficult environment. It was very difficult to figure out how to shut these things down. And so fast forward through this, we got some folks out fairly quickly to at least get that thing shut down. But now here it is, we got the windows open. The place is super heated because of all this blowing hot air. It's summer in Florida, so it's not cooling down, and there is no place that you're going to move 450 nursing home patients on a Friday night, which is what this was. It's two in the morning on a Friday night or Saturday morning.And I called up the emergency manager and the county manager and I go... Well I think I said, "Y'all ain't going to believe this shit." But I said, "I need large commercial 40-ton, 50-ton AC units to be brought in to take over for this thing," because the thing that broke could not be fixed. They had to get a part in and couldn't make it work. So four hours later, here comes three or four semi-trucks, and I forget how many pickup trucks full of crews with this loaded, heavy-duty AC equipment, these huge generators. I never did see how much that cost, but I'm going to guess it was a big number.Bruce Scott:I would imagine so.Stephen Shaw:Yeah.Bruce Scott:While you were talking about it, Bill, I just jotted real quick some of the things that emergency management help with here. Some of it we already mentioned, but I think... We start talking about active shooter situations, and we've broached the conversations recently about civil unrest, some of things we're facing. You start talking about curfews, restrictions of alcohol sales, restrictions of gun sales, those are not incident commander decisions. Those are elected officials, those are political decisions that have to be made. Again, we kind of talked in circles about it, but that relationship that happens between the emergency manager and our chief elected officials to be able to execute those things when we're actually taking away people's rights to a certain extent, that's the only way that can happen. The incident commander can not order a curfew. The incident commander can not order the restriction of gun or alcohol sales. They can not order an evacuation. Those are all done by our chief elected officials. So that relationship has to exist if we get in that posture.Bill Godfrey:I'm curious, Bruce, I'm with you right there because we're both out of the Florida gig. Was that the same rules for you in Colorado?Bruce Scott:Yeah, pretty much. We had to have elected officials involved to enact those declared emergencies. And even then, for evacuations it was tough, but all those political hot topics come into play with these events and it is not time to work them out at the event or with the incident commander. Those policies and decisions have to be driven through the EM. Not by the EM, but through the EM, to get the right message out to the community because they're also going to be communicating to the community, as well. Some of these things that are going on behind the scene.Bill Godfrey:Steve, how about you? Do you know is that kind of the same general way it is in North Carolina, as well?Stephen Shaw:It is. We will actually... We can declare local emergencies, and we'll a lot of times do those for preplanned events which will allow us to do things like set up checkpoints on the street, restrict, like Bruce was saying, alcohol sales, time and things like that. But yeah, same thing. We've got to have elected officials make that decision to say, "We're going to take this limited amount of people's freedom away."Bill Godfrey:So I think this has been a great conversation. A little bit wide-ranging as we pulled from some of our history, but in some ways I wanted to get those examples out even though they didn't necessarily fit active shooter events just to kind of illustrate some of the challenges that can come up. Let's go around, last thoughts. Bruce, what are the takeaways that you want our audience to get out of this?Bruce Scott:I think the takeaways are involve your emergency managers in every aspect of your active shooter planning and training, all right? Let them help you solve the problem. And also use them... Both Robert and Steve said, if you start getting in these postures where you're making these political decisions, there's a really good chance that emergency manager has the JIC plan, the joint information center plan, so we can make sure that law enforcement, fire, EMS, public works, everybody's putting out that same message. So use them to help you broadcast that message, but incorporate them into your training just like your typical first responders, and make sure they're included. Find out what they're capabilities are and what their capacity is, not just their capabilities but also their capacity.Bill Godfrey:Robert, final thoughts?Robert McMahan:Yeah, for law enforcement and fire, and when you think about in terms of active shooter incident management, think what that emergency manager is doing with those city or county officials all the time. They are preparing disaster plans, they're preparing disaster recovery plans, they're also providing incident management system-type training for those elected officials as a matter of law and policy in those areas. So make sure that they're incorporating this type of event in those plans and policies and training.Bill Godfrey:Stephen?Stephen Shaw:Bruce mentioned getting your emergency managers involved in training. I would say for the first responders, get involved in emergency management.Bill Godfrey:I like that.Stephen Shaw:I can think of several times during my career where we've had EOC set up for snow storms, or hurricanes, or floods, and they go around briefing. You come into work patrol and they said, "Hey, we need somebody to go up to the EOC and work the radio." And everybody kind of hides their heads or whatever, but I did that a couple times and it really opened up my eyes about what EOC's are about, what emergency managers do, and I think that's something that... You might be a patrol officer today. You go work that EOC, or you work with your emergency manager, but one day down the road you might find yourself as an incident commander on one of these scenes and it would be helpful to know what these people are capable of and what they can bring to the table. And that day may come sooner than you think. You might just find yourself there one day.Robert McMahan:That's a ESF13 position, isn't it?Stephen Shaw:Yeah.Bill Godfrey:Well said, Steve. I think for me, my final thought would be incorporate your emergency manager at the command post. And certainly for active shooter events, but I would actually say for any event of consequence, get in the habit of having an EM, emergency management liaison, in the command post with you so that they get a chance to learn what's going on at your command post and you get a chance to learn what they can do and what they can bring to make life a little bit better for everybody. Well gentlemen, thank you very much for taking the time to come together. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening to this podcast. If you have not subscribed to the podcast, please hit the subscribe button on whatever device you're listening on. And if you have any suggestions for us for topics that you'd like us to discuss, please email them to us at info@c3pathways.com. That's info@c3pathways.com. Thank you very much, and until the next time, stay safe.

Challenges, obstacles and painful experiences — these are just some of things life throws our way when we least expect them. But no matter where you are in life right now, remember that you can push past the hard times. You can learn how to rise above life’s challenges. And if you feel lost, here’s a little secret: help others. Being of service to other people can help you find strength and a way out of your problems. In this episode, Robert Joseph Cappuccio, widely known as Bobby, joins us to share his inspiring story of defying hardships and helping others. It’s easier to succumb to self-sabotage and addiction. But you have the power to make your experiences an opportunity for change and hope. Bobby also shares the importance of helping others, especially as a business owner and leader. If you want to learn how to rise above trauma and be inspired to become a force of good to the world, then this episode is for you!    Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.   Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer  Without Burnout & Injuries Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles? Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler? ​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?  Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.   Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you. If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.   Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless. For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.   Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements  NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time. What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life. Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today. Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today. Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined Cellular Health Energy & Focus Bone Density Skin Elasticity DNA Repair Cardiovascular Health Brain Health  Metabolic Health My  ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Discover how to rise above adversities. Understand the importance of intention and knowing who you serve. Learn the difference between internal and external customers and why you need to start focusing on the former.    Resources Gain exclusive access to premium podcast content and bonuses! Become a Pushing the Limits Patron now! Harness the power of NAD and NMN for anti-aging and longevity with NMN Bio. Connect with Bobby: Website | Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn | Instagram The Self-Help Antidote podcast by Bobby Cappuccio PTA Global The You Project Podcast by Craig Harper The Psychology of Winning: Ten Qualities of a Total Winner by Denis Waitley    Episode Highlights [05:49] Bobby’s Childhood Bobby was born with deformities. He was adopted by a man who had cancer.  After Bobby’s adoptive father passed, his adoptive mother entered a relationship with a cruel man. Bobby experienced all kinds of abuse throughout his childhood on top of having Tourette’s syndrome.  Doctors had to put him on Haldol, which damaged his brain.  Yet, Bobby shares that these painful experiences helped him resonate with others and thrive in his industry.  [12:48] How Bobby Got to Where He is Today  Bobby initially wanted to become a police officer for special victims.  He almost passed the written and psychological assessments, but there was an issue because of Tourette syndrome. At this time, he started working at a gym.  Bobby worked hard. Eventually, he caught the eye of the gym owner, Mitchell.  Mitchell became like a surrogate father and mentor to him. Listen to the full episode to hear how Mitchell shaped Bobby and put him on the path to success!   [20:31] Complications from Abuse and Empathy Some adults tried to intercede for Bobby when he was being abused as a kid. However, he avoided their help because he was scared of being harmed further. You can't just leave an abuser — it's difficult, and even simply attempting can hurt you. We should understand that abuse can affect anyone.  Confident and intelligent women may be particularly susceptible to abuse because they find themselves in a situation they didn’t expect.  [28:58] How Abuse Isolates People Abusers progressively isolate people by creating enemies out of strong alliances.  This can make someone lose their sense of self, making them more vulnerable and dependent on their abusers.  Assigning fault or blame to those being abused will not help anyone.  If anything, that stops people from coming forward.  [30:34] Help Others to Help Yourself Bobby learned how to rise above his traumas and negative emotions.  His mentor taught him to look beyond himself. It was only by helping others find a way out of their problems that Bobby found a way to help himself too.  He started to focus on helping people who were going through something similar to what he went through. [33:32] Focus on the Intention While working as a trainer, Bobby focused less on the transactional side of training and more on the transformational.  He wanted to help people find what they need at that moment and give them the support they need.  By focusing on his intention, he was able to get high rates of retention.  For Bobby, helping others means understanding their goals and wishes.  [36:12] Bobby’s Promotion Bobby’s exemplary performance led him to a promotion that he didn’t want. He was scared of disappointing Mitchell.   He did poorly in managing his team of trainers, which is when a consultant sat him down and gave him advice.  Mitchell also had Bobby stand up and speak in team meetings.  You need to know who you work for and who you serve. When your perspective is aligned with your work, you will bring that to every meeting and interaction.  Are you taking care of the people you need to be responsible for? Hear how Bobby figured out his answer in the full episode!  [43:14] Lessons on Leadership Companies often adopt a top-down mentality where bosses need to be followed. However, a company should not be like this. Companies are made up of people. Your business needs to care for your valuable customers, both internal and external.  Treat your team members with the same level of tenacity, sincerity and intention as your external customers. You can accomplish a lot if you hire the right person, set clear expectations and understand each individual’s motivations. Through these, you can develop the team’s capacity and channel it towards a common vision. [51:19] On Recruiting the Right People David Barton hired Bobby to work as his head of training.  Bobby asked David what two things Bobby should do to contribute the most to the company. David wanted Bobby to be a connoisseur of talent and to train them, train them and train them again.  Bobby brought this mindset throughout his career, and it’s served him well. Don’t be afraid to hire people who are smarter than you.   7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘When you know that there's somewhere you want to go, but you don't know exactly where that is. And you don't have complete confidence in your ability to get there. And what a good guy does is they help you go just as far as you can see.’ ‘We form and calibrate and shape our sense of identity in the context in which we navigate through the world off of one another. And when you're isolated with a distorted sense of reality, and you lose your sense of self, you become highly incapacitated to take action in this situation.’ ‘So I started focusing on things and a mission and people outside of myself. Who's going through something similar to what I have gone through, even if it's not precisely the same situation? How do I help them find their way out? And by helping them find their way out, I found my way up.’ ‘I never saved anyone; you can't change anyone but yourself. But the reason why he called me that is anytime someone would think about joining the gym...I approached it from a transformational perspective.’ ‘And your job is to create and keep your internal customer by serving them with at the very least with the same tenacity, sincerity and intention that you are serving your external customer. If you don't do that, you're going to be shit as a leader.’ ‘I think the only people who don't have impostor syndrome are imposters. Because if you're fraudulent, you wouldn't engage in the level of self-honesty, and humility, and conscientiousness, to go, “Am I fraudulent; is there something that I’m missing?”’ ‘Anything I've ever accomplished, it's totally through other people. It's because I hired people that were a lot smarter than me.’   About Robert Robert Joseph Cappuccio, or Bobby, is a behaviour change coach, author, consultant, speaker and fitness professional. He is a trainer of trainers and at the forefront of the life-altering and ever-evolving industry of coaching.  For over two decades, he has been advocating and pushing the industry-wide and individual shift of perspective in development. Behaviour change is rooted in a holistic approach, not just goals to health and fitness. With his vision, he co-founded PTA Global. It has now become a leader in professional fitness development.  No matter how successful Bobby seems, it didn't start this way. His childhood was filled with neglect, abuse and traumas that could lead anyone on the path to drinking and addiction. Bobby is no stranger to hardship and challenges, but he uses these experiences to connect and relate to others, using his past hardship as a way to help others. Bobby is also the former head of training and development at David Barton Gym, former director of professional development at the National Academy of Sports Medicine (NASM), content curator for PTontheNet, development consultant for various companies including Hilton Hotels, Virgin Active, Equinox, David Lloyd Leisure and multiple businesses nationally and abroad.  With his forward-thinking mindset and work ethic, Bobby champions practical programs that help both corporate and industry personnel, including individuals, get what they truly want. He advocates the process of change mixed in with the mantra of ‘you can be free to play’.  Interested in Bobby’s work? You can check out his website and listen to his Self-Help Antidote Podcast! Reach out to Bobby on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn and Instagram.    Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends to offer them one way to rise above their trauma. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Full Transcript Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host, Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: Welcome back to Pushing the Limits, your host Lisa Tamati here, and today I have a fantastic guest all the way from America again, this man goes by the name of Bobby Cappuccio. And he is a world-famous fitness professional. He trains a lot of the trainers that are out there. But Bobby has an incredible story that I really want to share with you today. So, Bobby was born with a severe facial deformity. And he also had deformed legs, and he was given up for adoption. His mother couldn't care for him, and he ended up being adopted by another man. But he had a very, very abusive rough childhood. He also developed Tourette Syndrome at the age of nine. In all this adversity you'd think like ‘oh my gosh, what sort of a life is this guy going to live’? But Bobby has had an incredible life. He's a fitness professional, as I said, he's worked in many gyms. He was the founder and co-owner of PTA Global, which does a lot of the professional fitness development. And he has devised his own strategies and ways of educating people. And his programs are just second to none. When I told my business partner, Neil, that I just interviewed Bobby Cappuccio, he's like, ‘Oh, my God, he's a legend in the space.’ So yeah, he was really a bit jealous that I got to speak to him. So I hope you enjoy this interview. It's some rough topics in there. But there's also some really great gems of wisdom. And the funny thing is what Bobby is just absolutely hilarious as well. So I do hope you enjoy it. Before we head over to the show, though, just want to let you know that we've launched a premium membership for the podcast. This is a patron membership so that you can become a VIP member of our tribe, help support the podcast. This podcast has been going now for five and a half years. It's a labour of love, I can tell you. It takes up a huge amount of my time and resources in both getting these world-class gifts for you, and also in study and research so that I can talk really, and interview very well all these crazy, amazing doctors, scientists, elite athletes and performers. So if you want to support us in keeping the show going, and like what we do in the world, and you want to keep those valuable content being able to be put out into the world, we'd love your support. And for that, we're going to give you lots of member, premium member, benefits. So, check it out at patron.lisatamati.com. That’s patron.lisatamati.com. That’s P-A-T-R-O-N dot Lisa Tamati dot com. And I just also wanted to remind you about my new anti-ageing and longevity supplement, NMN. I’ve co-worked together with molecular biologist, Dr. Elena Seranova, to make sure that you get the best quality NMN there is now. I searched all over the world for this stuff, when I learned about it, and researched about it, and how it works and what it does in the body, and there is a huge amount of science on it. A lot of it's up on our website, if you want to do a deep dive into all things NMN and the NAD precursor, then check it out. It's all about longevity. It's all about slowing down the ageing process and even reversing the ageing process. So if that's something that interests you, and you want high performance, you want help with cardiovascular health, with neuro protection, with metabolic disorders, then this is something that you should look into as well. So check that out at nmnbio.nz, that’s nmnbio.nz, and go and check that out. The supplements have been so popular that I haven't been able to keep up with orders. So on some of the orders, there is a bit of a backorder. But bear with me while we will scale up production. But go over and check that out at nmnbio.nz. Right over to the show with Bobby Cappuccio. Lisa: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. Today I have another very, very special guest and I was recently on this gentleman's show and now we're doing a reverse interview. I have Robert Cappuccio with me. Robert, welcome to the show. Robert Cappuccio: Oh, thank you. When you say you had a very special guest, I thought you were bringing someone else on. Lisa: You are a really special guest. Robert: Had a lot of anticipation like who is this person? What a surprise! Lisa: Well, you're a bit of an interesting character. Let's say that, throw that. Robert: Just the microphone. Lisa: No, I'm really, really interested to hear your story and to share your story with my audience, and to give a bit more of a background on you. And share gems of wisdom from your learnings from your life, because you've done some pretty cool stuff. You've had some pretty hard times and I'd like to share those learnings with my audience today. So Robert, whereabouts are you sitting at the moment, whereabouts are you in the States? Robert: Okay, so at the moment, I'm in a place called Normal Heights, which is probably a misnomer. It's not normal at all. But it's a really cool, funky neighbourhood in San Diego. Lisa: San Diego, awesome. And how’s lockdown going over there, and all of that sort of carry on? Robert: Oh, it’s great. I mean, on St. Patty's day, I've got my skull from our own green. I've just had a few whiskies. So far, so good. Lisa: This is a very interesting interview. So can you give us a little bit of background? Because you've had a very interesting, shall we say, difficult upbringing and childhood. And I wanted to perhaps start there and then see where this conversation goes a little. Robert: Is there any place you want to start, in particular? How far back do you want to go? Do you want to start from the very beginning? Lisa: Please go right at the very beginning, because you're intro to your backstory is quite interesting from the beginning, really isn't that? Robert: Okay, so I was born, which is obvious, in Manhattan, and I moved to Brooklyn early. So I was born, rather deformed. I was born with a significant facial deformity. And my lower extremities, my legs, quite never— like, if you saw my legs now, they're great. I have a great pair of legs at this moment. I'm not going to show you that because that would be a little bit rude. But my legs were kind of deformed and contorted. I had to walk with braces for the first couple of years of my life. I was given up for adoption. I'm not exactly sure, I have the paperwork on why I was given up for adoption, but I'm not really certain about the authenticity of that story. And I wasn't adopted for a while. So as an infant, I was parentless and homeless and really not well-tended to. I'm not going to get into why I say that because it's pretty disgusting. And then I was adopted. And then my adoptive father, this is kind of interesting, he had cancer, and he knew during the adoption process that he was probably not going to make it. He wanted to make sure that I found a home because nobody wanted to adopt me. Because when they came in, I was physically deformed. It's like, ‘Oh, this baby’s, it's broken. Something's wrong. Do you have a better baby’? And when he saw that, he thought, ‘Right, I've got to give this kid a home.’ So he passed. He passed when I was two. I didn't know him for more than a few months. And I hardly have any memory of him at all. My mother who adopted me, to be fair, she's developmentally disabled, and so she was a single uom with not a lot of skills, not a lot of prospects, terrified. And she basically, I think she met a guy when I was five, who I don't know if there's a diagnosis for him. He was mentally disturbed. He was a psychopath. I don't know if clinically he’s a psychopath, but that's pretty much how it felt. Lisa: You were a child experiencing this. Yeah. Robert: Yeah, I'm not like, I'm never sure in what direction to go with stuff like this. Never sure what’s valid, what's relevant. I spent my childhood in stressed positions, being woken up in the middle of the night with a pillow over my face, having bones broken consistently, and a series of rape, emotional abuse, physical abuse, and just every sort of trauma. Like imagine when I was nine years old, I was diagnosed, on top of that, with Tourette Syndrome. So I was physically deformed, going through shit like that at home. And then on top of it, I started losing control of my bodily functions. I started exhibiting tics, I started exhibiting obsessive compulsive behaviour. At some point, it was uncontrollable, like lack of control of my impulses, of the things that I would say, vulgarity. At some point, the doctors just thought that perhaps I was Scottish. Lisa: And you’re funny as well. Robert: And they put me on Haldol, which damaged my brain. That and the fact that, it's estimated, I've had at least over a half a dozen major concussions within my childhood — Lisa: From the abuse. Robert: — half a dozen to a dozen massive concussions. Yeah. Lisa: Absolute horrific start into life. Robert: When I was 10, I started binge drinking. And I thought this will help, this is a solution. But you know what? It's not. It's a little bit weird when you start a story off like this, because in some sense, it's not me being delusional, or Pollyanna, because I tend to think that I'm a little bit of a realist, sometimes too much, sometimes to the point of walking a fine edge between being hopeful and being a cynic. But I have to say that a lot of things that I experienced when I was growing up, turned out to be quite beneficial. It’s shaped me in a way and it helped me engage in certain career paths and certain activities that I don't think I really would have sought out, had this stuff not happened. So it's not like me, delusionally trying to create like all silver lining about stuff, it was shit. I understand the severity of what I went through. But I also understand where that led me. And I understand the good fortune that I had of running into certain people that resonated with me, and I resonated with them, largely in part because of my history. I don't think I would have related to these people had I not come from where I came from. Lisa: So you’re talking like people along the way that were, ended up being mentors, or teachers or friends or helping you out and through these horrific situations? Is that what you're meaning, sort of thing that would actually helped you? Because I mean, given a background like that, if you were a complete disaster and drug addict, and whatever, nobody would blame you.  You didn't have a good start in life, whatsoever. I mean, look at you now. Obviously you don't have any facial deformities, and you don't exhibit, right now, any of that stuff that actually you were and have been through. So how the hell did you get to where you are today? Because you're a very successful person, you have a very successful and a very strong influence in the world. What, how the heck do you go from being that kid, with brain problems and concussions and Tourette’s and abuse and rape and all of that, to being the person who comes across as one, number one, hilarious, very crazy and very cool?  How the heck do you get from there to there? Lisa: Just listening to, I can tell that you're someone who's highly intelligent, perceptive and an amazing judge of humour. So thank you for that. I think a lot of it was quite accidental. So I had thought when I was younger, that I wanted to be a police officer, originally. And I wanted to be involved with special victims, even before that was a TV show. Brilliant show, by the way, one of my favourite shows on TV. But even before that was the TV show, I thought, if I'm going through what I went through, and it's very hard because I had Child Services in New York City, they were called ACS. They were at my house consistently. But the problem is, I believed at a young age that my stepfather was nearly invincible, like nobody could touch him. Lisa: You were powerless against him. Yeah. Robert: And when they came to the house and like, look, I had broken bones, my arm was in a sling. A lot of times, I broke my tibia. They won't take me to the hospital because they thought they would suspect stepdad of doing it. I couldn't even walk. And these people were sitting down, said, ‘Well just tell us what happened.’ And I somehow knew that, at a critical moment, my adopted mother would falter. She would not have my back. She would rescind on everything she says. Lisa: She was frightened too, no doubt. Robert: She was frightened. I don't think she had the emotional or intellectual capacity to deal with the situation. That's all I'll say on that. But I knew once they left, I just knew they couldn't do anything, unless I was all-in. And if anything went wrong, he would kill me. So I would have to just say that, ‘Well, I fell.’ And it’s like, there's no way a fork, like I would go into camp and I would have stab wounds in the shape of a fork. And people are like, ‘What happened?’ And I said, ‘I was walking, and I tripped, and I fell onto a fork that went through my thigh and hit my femur.’ It's like, okay, that's just not possible. But I kind of knew. And I kind of felt like nobody's coming to the rescue. And I thought, if I was a police officer, and I was worked with special victims, maybe I could be the person that I always wished would show up for me. But then, there were issues with that. So I think I got like, out of a possible 100 on the police test. I did fairly well. I think I got 103, there were master credit questions. And I thought, right, yeah, I'm going. And then I took the psychological and by some weird measure, I passed, that seems crazy to me now. It kind of seems problematic. I think they need to revisit that. But then when I took the medical, and with Tourette's, it was kind of like, ‘Ah, yeah.’ It was a sticking point. So I had to petition because otherwise I would be disqualified from the employment police department. And during that time, I started working in the gyms. And when I was working the gyms, I kind of thought, there's no way I'll ever be as intelligent as some of these other trainers here. I'm just going to make up with work ethic what I lack in intellect. I would run around and just tried to do everything I could. I would try to clean all the equipment, make sure that the gym was spotless. But again, kind of like not like having all my wits about me, I would be spraying down a machine with WD-40. And what I didn't account for is, the person who was on the machine next to me, I'd be spraying him in the face with WD-40 when he was exercising. Lisa: They still do that today, by the way. The other day in the gym and the girl next to me, she was blind, and she was just spraying it everywhere. I had to go and shift to the other end of the gym, is that right, cause I don't like that stuff. Robert: I mean, in my defence, the members were very well-lubricated. And so, people would go upstairs, and like there is this fucking trainer just sprayed me in the face. And the owner would say, ‘All right, let me see who this guy is. What do you talk? This doesn’t even make sense? Who hired this guy?’ We kind of had like the old bowl, the pin. And like you could walk up top and look down into the weight room, and there I was just running around. And there was something about someone running around and hustling on the gym floor that made him interested. He's like, ‘Get this kid up into my office. Let me talk to him.’ And that forged a friendship. I spoke to him yesterday, by the way. So we've been friends for like three decades. And the owner of the gym became kind of like a surrogate dad. And he did for me what most guides do and that is when you know that there's somewhere you want to go, but you don't know exactly where that is, and you don't have complete confidence in your ability to get there. And what a good guy does is they help you go just as far as you can see, because when you get there, you'll see further. And that's what Mitchell did for me. And he was different because I have a lot of adults. So I grew up with not only extreme violence in the home, but I grew up in Coney Island. I grew up living on the corner of Shit Street and Depressing. And there was a constant violence outside the home and in school and I got picked on. And I got bullied until I started fighting, and then I got into a lot of fights. And you just have these adults trying to talk to you and it's like, you don't fucking know me. You have no idea where I come from. You can't relate to me. When you were growing up, you had a home, you were being fed. You were kind of safe, don't even pretend to relate to me. And he was this guy, who, he was arrested over a dozen times by age 30, which was not why I chose him as a mentor. But he had gone through some serious shit. And when he came out on the other end of it, he wanted to be somebody other than his history would suggest he was going to be, and he tried harder at life than anybody I had ever met. So one, I could relate to him, I didn't think he was one of these adults who are just full of shit. I was impressed at how hard he tried to be the person he wanted to be. So there was this mutual respect and affinity, instantly. Lisa: Wow. And he had a massive influence. And we all need these great coaches, mentors, guides, surrogate dads, whatever the case may be, to come along, sometimes in our lives. And when they do, how wonderful and special that is, and someone that you could respect because like you say, I've had a wonderful childhood. In comparison to you, it was bloody Disneyland, and so I cannot relate to some of those things. And I have my own little wee dramas, but they were minor in comparison to what you experienced in the world. So how the heck can I really help you out if you're a young kid that I'm trying to influence. And not that you have to go through everything in order to be of help to anybody, but just having that understanding that your view, your worldview is a limited, privileged background. Compared to you, my background is privileged. Robert: Well, I don't think there's any ‘compared to you’. I think a lot of my reaction to adults around me who tried to intercede — one, if your intercession doesn't work, it's going to get me hurt, bad, or it's going to get me killed. There have been times where I was hung out of an 18-storey window by my ankles. Lisa: You have got to be kidding me. Robert: Like grabbing onto the brick on the side of the building. I can't even say terrified. I don't even know if that encapsulates that experience as a kid. But it's like you don't understand what you can walk away from once you feel good about interceding with this poor, unfortunate kid. I cannot walk away from the situation that you're going to create. So it was defensive mechanism, because pain is relative. I mean, like, you go through a divorce, and you lose this love and this promise, and somebody comes along, ‘Oh there are some people in the world who never had love, so you should feel grateful’. You should fuck off because that's disgusting. And that is totally void of context. I don't think somebody's pain needs to compare to another person's pain in order to be relevant. I think that was just my attitude back then because I was protecting my existence. I've really changed that perspective because, like, my existence isn't threatened day to day anymore. Lisa: Thank goodness. Robert: So I have a different take on that. And I understand that these adults were well meaning, because I also had adults around me, who could have probably done something, but did nothing. And I don't even blame them because my stepfather was a terrifying person. And the amount of work and energy, and the way the laws, the structure, and how threatening he was, I don't blame them. And me? I’ll probably go to prison. But I don't blame them for their inaction. Lisa: Yeah, and this is a problem. Just from my own experiences, like I said, this is not even in childhood, this is in young adulthood, being in an abusive relationship. The dynamic of the stuff that's going on there, you're frightened to leave. You know you are going to be in physical danger if you try and leave. So, I've been in that sort of a position but not as a child. But still in a position where people will think, ‘Well, why don't you just go?’ And I’m just like, ‘Have you ever tried to leave someone who's abusive? Because it's a very dangerous thing to do.’ And you sometimes you’re like, just, you can't, if there's children involved, even, then that's even worse. And there's complicated financial matters. And then there's, whatever the case may be or the circumstances that you're facing, it's not cut and dried. And as an adult, as a powerful woman now, I wouldn't let myself be in a position like that. But I wasn't that back then. And you weren't because well, you were a child. See, you're even more. Robert: I just want to comment on that a little bit. And this is not coming from clinical expertise. This is just coming from my own interpretation experience. I think, obviously, that when a child goes through this, you would think, ‘Okay, if this started at age five, what could you have done?’ But a lot of times we do look at, let's say, women who are in severe domestic violence situations, and we say, ‘Well, how could you have done that? How could you have let somebody do that to you’? And I think we need to really examine that perspective. Because powerful, confident, intelligent women might be especially susceptible. Lisa: Apparently, that’s the case. Robert: Because you have a track record, and you have evidence to support that you are capable, and you're intelligent, and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't anticipate. And I think it's easier to gaslight someone like that. Because it's like, ‘How could I have had a lapse — is it me?’  And it creeps up on you, little by little, where you doubt yourself a little bit more, a little bit more, and then you become more controlled and more controlled. And then your perspective on reality becomes more and more distorted. So I think we have to be very careful when an adult finds themselves, yes, in that position, saying, ‘Well, why didn't you just leave? How could you have let yourself very easily?’ It can happen to anyone, especially if you have a strong sense of confidence and you are intelligent, and because it becomes unfathomable to you, how you got into that situation. Lisa: Looking back on my situation, which is years and years ago now, and have no consequences to the gentleman that I was involved with, because I'm sure he's moved on and hopefully, not the same. But the fact that it shifted over many years, and the control shifted, and the more isolated you became. I was living in a foreign country, foreign language, unable to communicate with my family, etc., etc. back then. And you just got more and more isolated, and the behaviour’s become more and more, more radical ways as time goes on. It doesn't stop there. Everybody's always lovely at the beginning. And then, as the power starts to shift in the relationship — and I've listened to a psychologist, I’ve forgotten her name right now, but she was talking about, she works with these highly intelligent, educated women who are going through this and trying to get out of situations where they shouldn't be in. And she said,  ‘This is some of the common traits. They're the types of people who want to fix things, they are the types of people who are strong and they will never give up.’ And that is actually to their detriment, in this case. And I'm a very tenacious type of person. So, if I fall in love with someone, which you do at the beginning, then you're like, ‘Well, I'm not giving up on this person. They might need some help, and some, whatever’. And when you're young, you think you can change people, and you can fix them. And it took me a number of years to work out and ‘Hang on a minute, I haven't fixed them, I’ve screwed myself over. And I've lost who I am in the process.’ And you have to rebuild yourself. And like you and like your case is really a quite exceptionally extreme. But like you, you've rebuilt yourself, and you've created this person who is exceptional, resilient, powerful, educated, influential — Robert: And dysfunctional. Lisa: And dysfunctional at the same time. Hey, me, too. Robert: And fucked up in 10 different ways. Lisa: Yeah. Hey, none of us have got it right. As our mutual friend, Craig Harper would say, ‘We're just differing degrees of fucked-up-ness’. Robert: That would be spot on. Lisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And totally, some of the most high functioning people that I get to meet, I get to meet some pretty cool people. There's hardly any of them that don't have some area in their life where they've got that fucked-up-ness that's going on, and are working on it, because we're all works in progress. And that's okay. Robert: The thing you said that I really caught is you lost your sense of self, and the isolation. And that is what abusers do, is progressively they start to isolate, and create enemies out of strong alliances and allies. And when you lose your sense of self, and you're so isolated — because as much as we want to be strong and independent, we are highly interdependent, tribal people. We form and calibrate, we shape our sense of identity and the context in which we navigate through the world off of one another. And when you're isolated with a distance sense of reality and you lose your sense of self, you become highly incapacitated to take action in this situation. And you develop, I think what Martin Seligman, called learned helplessness. And I think assigning fault or blame or accusation either to yourself or doing that to somebody else, not only does that not help, it stops people from coming forward. Because it reinforces the mental state that makes them susceptible to perpetual abuse in the first place. Lisa: Yeah, it's so true. So how did you start to turn around? So you meet Mitchell, Mitchell was his name, and he started to be a bit of a guiding light for you and mentor you, and you're in the gym at this phase stage. So, what sort of happened from there on and? So what age were you at this point, like, your teenage years, like teenagers or? Robert: I met Mitchell  when I was like 19 years old. And what he allowed me to do, and it wasn't strategies, he allowed me to focus outside of myself. Because every emotion, every strong emotion you're feeling, especially in a painful way, resides within you. So if you feel a sense of despair, or you feel disgust, or loneliness, or isolation, or any type of pain, and you would look around your room and go, ‘Well, where's that located? Where's my despair? I searched my whole desk, I can't find it’. It's not there. It's not in your outer world. It's your inner world. And what he gave me the ability to do is say, ‘Okay. I grew up physically deformed. And despite everything I was going through, my physical deformities were one of the most painful things’. But the irony, more painful than anything else because you could see me out in the shops and go, ‘Okay, this is a person who has been severely physically sexually abused, who's suffered emotional trauma’. You could see that as I walk through the aisles, because you say, ‘Okay, this is someone who doesn't look right. This is someone who —', and I can see the look of disgust on people's face when they saw me physically. And then there’s nowhere to hide, you couldn’t mask that. I started thinking, ‘Well, what about people who feel that about their physical appearance and they don't require surgery? What are they going through? And how do I focus more on them? How do I take a stand for that person? What's the areas of knowledge? What are the insights? What are the resources that I can give these people to be more resourceful in finding a sense of self and finding their own way forward?’ Lisa: Being okay with the way that they are, because it must be just— Robert: People are okay with the way they are, seeing an ideal version of themselves in the future. And engaging the behaviours that helps them eventually bridge that gap, where their future vision, at some point, becomes their current reality. So I started focusing on things and a mission and people outside of myself, who's going through something similar to what I have gone through, even if it's not precisely the same situation? How do I help them find their way out? And by helping them find their way out, I found my way up. Lisa: Wow, it's gold. And that's what you ended up doing then, and within the gym setting, or how did that sort of work out from there? Robert: Well, I became a trainer. And in the beginning, I was like an average trainer. But I became, what Mitchell called, like the person who saved people. I never saved anyone; you can't change anyone but yourself. But the reason why he called me that is, anytime someone would think about joining the gym, if they would sit down with someone, they approached it from, ‘Well, what can we do? Can we give you a couple of extra months? Can we give you a guest pass to invite some —‘. They approached it from a transactional perspective, where when I sat down with these people, I approached it from a transformational perspective. ‘What did you want most? What do you want most in your life in this moment? And what hasn't happened? What missed? What was the disconnect? Where have we failed? What did you need that was not fulfilled in your experience here and how do we give you those resources? How do we support you going forward?’ And it was also like, ‘Look, if you want to leave, we totally respect that. You've given us a chance to help you. And obviously, the fault was ours. I never blamed anyone. But if you had the chance to do it again, what would have made the difference? And give us that opportunity’. It’s like, ‘Oh, this person is like a retention master’. It's not that, my focus wasn't in retention, it was the intention rather, to relate to the individual in front of me.  Lisa: I’m hearing about the actual person and their actual situation and their actual wishes and goals, rather than, how can I sweeten the deal so you don't leave? Robert: Precisely, and that had some unintended consequences, because it put me in a bad situation, because I got promoted against my will. And I didn’t want to get promoted. And I thought, ‘I'm just getting a reputation for being somewhat good in my current job. And now they're going to promote it to my level of incompetence. And now I'm going to disappoint Mitchell, he's going to find out this kid's actually an idiot, he's a fraud — ‘I was wrong.’ And the one person who believed in me, I'm going to lose his trust and his faith, and that's going to be damaging.’ So me being promoted into management led to a series of unpredictable events that shaped my entire career. Lisa: Okay, tell us about that. Tell us about it. So you were pushed out of your comfort zone, because you just got a grip on this thing, the crazy worker. Robert: So Mitchell had a consultant, and his name was Ray. His name still is Ray, coincidentally. And he said, ‘Yeah, I think you should promote Bobby, just a small promotion to head trainer. Not like fitness manager, just head trainer’. And when they approached me, it was almost like they told me like, I had to euthanise my pet. It was horrible. I was not excited about this. I was like, ‘Oh, thanks. But no, thanks. I love where I'm at.’ Lisa: Yep. ‘I didn’t want to grow.’ Robert: Well, they had a response to that. They said, ‘There’s two directions you can go in this company, you could go up, or you can go out’. And they fired me that day. Lisa: Wow! Because you wouldn’t go up? Robert: They’re like, ‘You've chosen out. And that's okay. That's your decision’. And I was devastated. Like that my identity is connected to that place. And on my way out the door, Mitchell's like, ‘Come into my office.’ And he’s sitting across from me, and he kind of looked like a very muscular, like an extremely muscular version of Burt Reynolds at the time, which was very intimidating, by the way. And he puts his feet up on the desk, and he's leaning back, and he's eating an apple. He says, ‘You know, I heard a rumour that you're recently unemployed. And so I would imagine, your schedules opened up quite a bit this week. You know, coincidentally, we're interviewing for a head trainer position. You might want to come in and apply because you've got nothing to lose’. What a complete and total cock. And I say that, with love, gratitude, gratitude, and love. So I showed up — Lisa: Knew what you needed. Robert: I remember, I showed up in a wrinkly button-down shirt, that is not properly ironed, which was brought to my attention. And I got the job. And I was the worst manager you've ever met in your life because first of all, my motivation was not to serve my team. My motivation was not to disappoint Mitchell. And that was the wrong place for your head to be in, if you have the audacity to step into a leadership position. Whether you tell yourself you were forced into it or not, fact of the matter is ‘No, I could have chosen unemployment, I would have done something else. I chose this. Your team is your major responsibility.’ And that that perspective has served me in my career, but it well, it's also been problematic. So I had people quitting because for me, I was in the gym at 5am. And I took two-hour breaks during the afternoon and then I was in the gym till 10 o'clock at night, 11 o'clock at night. I expected you to do the same thing. So, I didn't understand the worldview and the needs and the aspirations and the limitations and the people on my team. So people started quitting. I started doing horribly within my position. And then Mitchell brought in another consultant, and he gave me some advice. I didn't take it as advice at the time, but it changed everything. And it changed rapidly. This guy's name is Jamie, I don’t remember his surname. But he sat me down and he said, ‘So I understand you have a little bit of trouble’. Yeah, no shit, man. Really perceptive. ‘So, just tell me, who do you work for?’ So, ‘I work for Mitchell’. He said, ‘No, no, but who do you really work for?’ I thought, ‘Oh. Oh, right. Yeah. The general manager of the gym. Brian, I work for Brian’. So nope, who do you really work for? I thought it must be the fitness manager, Will. So, ‘I work for Will’. He’s like, ‘But who do you work for?’ And now I'm starting to get really irritated. I'm like, yeah, this guy's a bit thick. I don't know how many ways I can explain, I've just pretty much named everybody. Who do you reckon I work for? He said, ‘No, you just named everyone who should be working for you?’ Lisa: Yeah, you got that one down. Robert: ‘Have a single person you work for? Who are your trainers?’  He said, ‘Here, let me help you out. Imagine for a second, all of your trainers got together, and they pooled their life savings. They scraped up every bit of resource that they could to open up a gym. Problem is, they're not very experienced. And if they don't get help, they're going to lose everything. They're going to go out of business. They go out and they hire you as a consultant. In that scenario, who do you think you'd work for?’ I was like, ‘Oh, I'm the one that's thick. I've worked for them’. Because in every interaction you have, it made such a dip because it sounds counterintuitive. But he said, ‘In every meeting and every interaction, whether it's a one-on-one meeting, team meeting, every time you approach someone on the floor to try to help them, or you think you're going to correct them, come from that perspective and deliver it through that lens’. And things started to change rapidly. That was one of two things that changed. The second thing that changed is Mitchell believed, because he would listen to self-help tapes, it inspired him. So he would have me listen to self-help tapes. And he believed that oration in front of a group public speaking was culturally galvanising. And in a massive team meeting where we had three facilities at the time, where he brought in a couple of hundred people for a quarterly meeting. He had me stand up and speak. Oh, man. I know you've done a lot of podcasting and you do a lot of public speaking in front of audiences. You know that experience where you get up to speak but your brain sits right back down? Lisa: Yeah. And you're like, as Craig was saying the other day, ‘It doesn't matter how many times you do it, you're still absolutely pecking yourself.’ Because you want to do a really good job and you go, ‘This is the day I'm going to screw it up. I'm going to screw it up, even though I've done it 10,000 times. And I’ve done a brilliant job. Then it’s coming off.’ Robert: If you’re not nervous in front of an audience, you've got no business being there. That is very disrespectful. I agree with that. I mean, this is coming from, in my opinion, one of the greatest speakers in the world. And I'm not just saying that because Craig's my mate, and he gives me oatmeal every time I come out to Melbourne. I'm saying that because he's just phenomenal and authentic in front of a room. But I had that experience and I'm standing up brainless in front of the room. And as I start to realize that I am choking. I'm getting so nervous. Now this is back in the 1990s, and I was wearing this boat neck muscle shirt that said Gold's Gym, and these pair of workout pants that were called T-Michaels, they were tapered at the ankles, but they ballooned out. You know the ones I’m talking about? And I had a lot of change in my pocket. And all you hear in the room, as my knees were shaking, you can hear the change rattling, which wasn't doing anything for my self-confidence. And just instantly I was like, ‘Right, you're either going to epically fail at your job right here. Or you are going to verbatim with intensity, recite word for word, like everything you remember from Dennis Waitley’s Psychology of Winning track for positive self-determination’. Sorry, Dennis, I did plagiarize a bit. And I said it with passion. Not because I'm passionate, because I knew if I didn't say it with fierce intensity, nothing but a squeak will come out of my mouth, Lisa: And the jingle in the pocket Robert: And the jingle in the pocket. And at the end of that, I got a standing ovation. And that’s not what moved me. Lisa: No? Robert: What moved me was weeks ago, I was clueless in my job. I got this advice from Jamie on, ‘You work for them. They are your responsibility. They are entrusted to you. Don’t treat people like they work for you.’ Now I had this, this situation happened. And my trainers avoided me a month ago when I got promoted. But now they were knocking on my office door, ‘Hey, can I talk to you? Would you help me’? And it just clicked. The key to pulling yourself out of pain and suffering and despair is to focus on lifting up others. Lisa: Being of service. Robert: That was it. I thought I could be good at something. And what I'm good at is not only, it's terrifying before you engage in it, but it's euphoric after, and it can help other people. I can generate value by developing and working through others. Lisa: This is like gold for management and team leaders and people that are in charge of teams and people is, and I see this around me and some of the corporations where get to work and consultants stuff is this was very much this top-down mentality. ‘I'm the boss. You’re doing what I say because I'm the boss’. And that doesn't work. It might work with 19-year-olds who have no idea in the world. Robert: It reeks of inexperience. You think you're the boss because you've had certain qualities, and that's why you got promoted — do what I say. You are a detriment to the company — and I know how many people are fucked off and calling bullshit. I don't care. I mean, not to toot my own horn. Like anything I've ever accomplished, I've learned I have accomplished through hiring the right people and having a team that's better than me. But I’ve been in so many management positions, from the very bottom to the very top of multiple organizations I've consulted all over the world, you are only as good as your team. And to borrow from the late great Peter Drucker, ‘The purpose of a business is to create and keep a customer. And your most valuable customer’s your internal customer, the team that you hire. Because unless you are speaking to every customer, unless you are engaging with every customer complaint, unless you are engaging in every act of customer service on your own —' which means your business is small, which is fine. But if it's a lot, you're not ‘— you could scale that, it is always your team. And your job is to create and keep your internal customer by serving them with, at the very least, with the same tenacity, sincerity and intention that you are serving your external customer. If you don't do that, you're going to be shit as a leader. And honestly, I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks about that. Because I have heard so many opinions from people who are absolute — they've got a ton of bravado, they beat their chest, but they are ineffective. And it's extraordinary what you can accomplish when you know how to be, number one, hire the right person. Number two set expectations clearly — clearly, specifically. Number three, understand what motivates each individual, as an individual person and as a team, and then develop that team's capacity individually and collectively to channel that capability towards the achievement of a common vision, of a common monthly target. Period. Lisa: Wow. So that's just, that’s one whole lot going on in one. Robert: That is leadership in a nutshell. Lisa: Yeah. And this is the tough stuff because it's easier said than done. I mean, I'm trying to scale our businesses and grow teams and stuff. And number one, hiring the right people is a very big minefield. And number two, I've started to realize in my world that there's not enough for me to go around. I can't be in 10 places and 10 seats at once. You're getting overwhelmed. You're trying to help the universe and you're one person, so you're trying to replicate yourself in the team that you have, and provide the structure. And then you also need those people where you're weak, like I'm weak at certain aspects. I'm weak at technology, I'm hopeless at systems. I know my weaknesses. I know my strengths, so. Robert: I resemble that comment. Lisa: Yeah, In trying to get those people where you, that are better than you. Not as good, but better than you. And never to be intimidated because someone is brilliant at something. They're the ones you want on your team, because they are going to help with your deficits. And we've all got deficits and blind spots and things that we're not good over we don't love doing. And then trying to develop those team members so that you're providing them and treating them respectfully, looking after them, educating them. And that takes a lot of time too, and it's really hard as a smallish business that's trying to scale to go from there wearing a thousand hats. And a lot of people out there listening will be in similar boats as ours, like, wearing a hundred hats and trying to do multitasking, getting completely overwhelmed, not quite sure how to scale to that next level, where you've got a great team doing a whole lot of cool stuff. And then realizing the impact that you can have as tenfold or a hundredfold. Robert: Absolutely. And I'm not really a good business person, per se, like I've owned a few businesses myself, I've worked within quite a few businesses. And I think what I'm good at, and this goes back to another person that I worked for shortly after Gold's Gym. So Gold's Gym was sold, that's a whole story you don't need to get into. This is an interesting guy. I was doing consulting, I was just going out and doing public speaking, I had independent clients. And I crossed paths with an individual named David Barton. This is someone you should get on your podcast. Talk about an interesting individual. And David Barton had the one of the most unique and sexy edgy brands in New York City. And that's when you had a lot of competition with other highly unique, sexy, edgy brands. And he was the first person — he coined the phrase, ‘Look better naked,’ it was actually him. That's the guy. It was on the cover of New York Magazine. I mean, he was constantly, like his club in Vogue, at Harper's Bazaar, he ended up hiring me as his head of training. And his company at that time in the 1990s, which is quite the opposite of the mentality, the highest position you could ever achieve in his company was trainer. It was all about the training, and it made a difference culturally, and it made a difference in terms of like we were probably producing more revenue per club and personal training at that point than almost anyone else in the world, with the exception of maybe Harpers in Melbourne. So this is how far me and Craig go back actually. Lisa: Wow. It’s that right. Robert: Yeah, because we had found out about each other just a few years after that. Lisa: Some of that Craig Harper. Robert: Craig Harper, yeah, when he had his gyms. So we were introduced by a guy named Richard Boyd, a mutual friend who's like, you got to meet this guy, because he's doing what you were doing. And it all started when I went into David Barton gym, and I just thought, this is a different world. This is another level. Am I in over my head? So again, it was that doubt, it was that uncertainty. Lisa: The imposter syndrome.  Robert: But I did. Yeah, and I think we all have, and I think the only people who don't have imposter syndrome are imposters. Because if you're fraudulent, you wouldn't engage in the level of self-honesty, and humility and conscientiousness, to go ‘Am I fraudulent, is there something that I’m missing’? Only a con artist never considers whether or not they're fraudulent, it's ‘Does that keep you stuck? Or does that help you to get better and more authentic, more sincere?’ So I had the presence of mind to ask David a very important question. And I said, ‘David, if there was like two things, or three things that I can do in this company, exceedingly well, what two or three things would best serve the member, the company as a whole, and of course, my career here with you?’ And David leaned back and he did one of these dozens of things he gave me, literally. And he sat there for — it must have been like five seconds — it felt like an eternity and I'm thinking, ‘Oh my god, that that was the stupidest question I could possibly ask. He probably thinks I should have this whole, like sorted out. After all, he hired me, or am I going to get sacked today?’ And then I was like, ‘I can't get sacked. My house just got ransacked by the FBI’. That was a totally different story. He comes, he leans forward. And he says, ‘Two things. Two things you got to do. Number one,’ and a paraphrase, but it was something very similar to, ‘I want you to be a connoisseur of talent, like a sommelier is a connoisseur of wine. I want you to hire interesting, and great trainers. That's number one.’ And he just sat there again. And I'm like, I think it was a power move. Looking back, it was a power move. Lisa: Using the silence. Robert: What’s number two, David? And he said, ‘Train the shit out of them. And when you're done with that, here's number three, train them again. Number four, train them again. Number five, train them again.’ And that stuck with me. And a year later, I wound up leaving David Barton, and I come back to work with him periodically over the course of many years, and I personally loved the experience every time. We’re still good friends today. And I went to NASM, and I became a presenter, senior presenter, and eventually I became the director of professional development for the National Academy of Sports Medicine. And I brought that with me. And trust me, there was times when I was quite a weirdo, because I thought quite differently than then a team of educators and clinicians. But it helped, and it served me well, and served me throughout my life. So I am shit at so many aspects of business. But I am really good, and probably because I'm very committed to recruiting people with the same level of insight, precision, intuition and sophistication that a sommelier would approach a bottle of wine. Lisa: Oh, I need to talk to you about my business at some point. I need the right people because I keep getting the wrong one. Robert: That, I'm very confident I can help. When it comes to recruiting and selection and hiring and training and development, that is my world. Lisa: That’s your jam. Robert: And because anything I've ever accomplished, it's totally through other people. It's because I hired people that were a lot smarter than me. It's funny because that's another piece of advice I got way back in my Gold Gym days, where one of the consultants was in the room and said, ‘You'll be successful to the degree that you're able and willing to hire people that are more intelligent than you’. And Mitchell quipped, ‘That shouldn’t be too hard for you, Bob’. Okay, yeah. Thanks, Mitchell. Yeah. Lisa: Oh, yeah, nice, friend. You need those ones, don’t you? Hard case ones. Hey, Bobby, this has been a really interesting and I feel like we probably need a part two because we haven't even touched on everything because you've had an incredible career. And I just look at you and how you how far you've come and there must have been so much that you haven't even talked about, have been all the really deep stuff that you went through as a child — Robert: No, I've told you everything. There's nothing else. Lisa: But how the hell did you actually turn your mindset around and how did you fix yourself and get yourself to the point you know where you are today, but I think we've run out of time for today. So, where can people engage with what you do and where can people find you and all of that sort of good stuff? Robert: Okay, well, I just started my own podcast. It's decent. Lisa: Which is awesome because I've been on. Robert: So if you are looking for, like one of the most dynamic, interesting and inspiring podcasts you've ever encountered, go to The You Project by Craig Harper. If you still have time after that, and you're looking for some decent podcast material, go to The Self Help Antidote, that is my podcast. And I'm on Facebook. Social media is not really where I live. It's not where I want to live. It's not where I like to live, but I'm there. I'm on Facebook. I mean the rest of the older generation, yeah, piss off kids. And I'm on Instagram. I'm occasionally on LinkedIn, but not really. I will be on Clubhouse because I got to find the time Lisa: What the hel

Today's guest, Dr. Robert Paarlberg, is the author of a provocative new book entitled: Resetting the Table: Straight Talk About the Food We Grow and Eat. The book is presented as a clear-eye, science-based corrective, to misinformation about our food: how it's produced, food companies, nutrition labeling, ethical treatment of animals, the environmental impact of agriculture, and even more.   Interview Summary   So Robert, The New York Times praised your book for - and I quote here - "Throwing cold water on progressive and conservative views alike." What an accomplishment that is, and with an intro like that I can't wait to talk to you today, so thanks so much for joining us. So let's begin here, your new book highlights a number of dietary health shortcomings in America but you say these do not come from our farms or from farm subsidies. Can you explain, where do they come from?   Clearly we have a dietary health crisis. Only 1 in 10 Americans is getting the fruits and vegetables recommended and meanwhile we're eating far too many ultra-processed foods with added sugar, salt, and fat, which is why 42% of adults are now clinically obese. I mean, that's three times the level of the 1960's and one result is approximately 300,000 deaths a year linked to diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and cancers. Now, some food system critics have tried to trace these problems back to the foods grown on our farms. That is, not enough fruits and vegetables and too much corn and soybeans and farmers in America do produce a lot of corn and soybeans but stop and think, nearly 60% of the soybeans are exported. So they never enter our food supply and more than a third of the corn is used to produce auto fuel. So, that's out of our food supply as well. And we've used imports to make an abundance of fruit and vegetables, available in the marketplace. Half of our fruit is imported, one third of our vegetables are imported, often, off season when it's too cold to grow these things in North America. Thanks to these imports, the per capita availability of fruit in the market today is 40% above the 1970 level and the per capita availability of vegetables is 20% above 1970. Actually, per capita, availability of broccoli today, is 13 fold what it was in 1970. So, what our farmers grow, is not the same thing as what consumers eat and very quickly, as for farm subsidies, they're often criticized for making unhealthy foods, artificially cheap but they actually do just the opposite. We have to remember the purpose of farm subsidies is to increase the income of farmers and that is best done, it's usually done, by making farm commodities artificially expensive, not artificially cheap. Farm programs make sugar, artificially expensive by keeping foreign sugar out of our domestic market, raising the domestic price by about 64%. We make wheat and wheat flour and bread artificially expensive, through a conservation reserve program that pays wheat farmers to keep their land in western Kansas idle for 10 years. And we make corn artificially expensive. It's said, that we're living with a plague of cheap corn, but it's just not true. We have a renewable fuel standard, that takes a third of total corn production out of the food market, for uses, auto fuel, and that drives up the price of soybeans as well because soybeans and corn are grown on the same land.   So back to the question then, if the dietary problems don't come from the things that you just mentioned and you make an interesting case there, where do they come from?   I put a lot of blame on food manufacturing companies, on retailers and on restaurant chains. These are the companies that take, mostly healthful commodities, grown on America's farms and ultra process them, add sugar, add salt, add fat, turn them into, virtually addictive, craveable products and then they surround us with them, all day long and they advertise them heavily, including to children. I believe we are drowning in a swamp of unhealthy foods, produced not on our farms, but downstream from farms by these food companies. Now the food companies say, "Oh, well, unhealthy eating, we're not responsible. It's an individual eater's responsibility, to decide what he or she puts in his mouth." But I don't buy that. I mentioned that obesity rates in the United States today, are three times the level of the 1960s. It simply isn't true, it can't be true, that American eaters are three times as irresponsible, as they were in the 1960's.   Companies can't be blamed, I don't suppose, for trying to maximize sales of their products and trying to maximize their desirability. How does it become a problem with the food industry though?   If a shoe company sells us too many shoes that we don't need or a toy company sells us toys we don't need or an auto company sells us a fancy auto with features we don't really need, that doesn't become a public health crisis, but when food companies make products that are almost impossible for most consumers to resist, if they consume them then, in excess and it does become a public health crisis, that's a different sort of problem. In a way, I don't blame the companies because as you noted, they compete fiercely with each other and if anyone were to try to go first to offer product lines, that weren't latent with excess sugar, salt, and fat they would lose market share. These companies actually need the government to step in and provide a common discipline on all of them. Either, in the form of excise taxes on sugar-sweetened beverages or regulations for, at a glance, nutrition guidance labeling on the front of the package or perhaps, restrictions on advertising food to children. If you look at the countries in Europe, 18 European countries have at least one of these policies in place. The continent of Europe has obesity prevalence, only half as high as that of the United States. So here, I think if we can learn something from Europe and use government policy to protect the companies from the kind of damaging competition that they've fallen into.   Given what you said about rates of obesity, it's important for people in many countries of the world to just, eat less food and of course, eating less food creates problems for the industry. So, it seems like, on one hand, the government to say, "Well, listen, why don't you require us all to gradually reduce the sugar in our products or the salt or the fat or whatever, so that we're all on the same playing field." People get calibrated to a lower level of these things and everything will be fine, but everything won't be fine because if those foods become less palatable, people will eat less and the companies will suffer from that. So, my guess is that that's why there's no appetite, if you pardon the pun, from the companies to do this kind of thing and why there's gonna have to be government regulation that overrides the company's political interest or even litigation to help drive this, what do you think?   I'd like to see strong public policies. Whether you call it helping the companies to, avoid their worst instincts and protecting them from damaging competition or imposing on them, a public health obligation to market fewer addictive and unhealthy products. I think, there's a great deal of room for public policy here and no matter what you call it, the companies by themselves, have created a problem that, it's unlikely they will solve, by themselves. In my book, I look at a food service chain, Applebee's, they realized, that their comfort food was not setting a proper health standard for their clientele and they tried to, change their menu, to take the, all you can eat riblets, off the menu and they lost customers. And so they got a new CEO and they went back to the old menu and their profits soared again. Companies sometimes try, they sometimes want to do a better job but in a unrestricted, competitive marketplace it can be suicidal. So, I think we should, in their own interest, as well as in the public health interest, put some restrictions on the marketplace or at least some guidelines   So let's move on to a little bit different topic. So your book questions some popular narratives, including suggestions that there should be more local food to scale up the consumption of organic food or say, to build supermarkets and food deserts.   Well, if you look at them one at a time, you'll see that they probably wouldn't improve our dietary health. If we relocalized, our food system, we would have to replace all those imported fruits and vegetables I mentioned, also seafood. If we tried to, replace those, with locally or at least nationally grown products, it would be possible to do, with enough greenhouses, but it would be very difficult and very expensive for food consumers in Chicago or New York or Boston, in the Northern latitudes, where many food consumers live. So, the price of healthy food would go up in the marketplace and we don't consume very much local food today. Actually, if you look at all of the direct sales from farmer's markets and CSA's and pick your own and roadside stands and farm to table and farm to school, it's only 2% of farm sales. It turns out that, we're not scaling up local. Consumers want more variety, they want more convenience. They want those things year round. I mean, we're actually going in a globalized direction. In 1990, we imported only 10% of the food we consume. Now we're importing 19%. Organic, it's a little bit similar. Currently only 2% of farm sales in America are certified organic products. The number's low because organic rules prevent farmers from using any synthetic nitrogen fertilizers and they're the most important source of productivity in conventional farming. Trying to scale up organic would make healthy food again, more expensive. Organic produce costs, on average, 54% more than conventional produce. If consumers had to pay 54% more for fruits and vegetables, they would buy less and eat less. Now, there are food deserts, where there is a relative shortage of supermarkets but there isn't any good evidence that building a supermarket in a food desert will improve dietary quality. In part, this is because supermarkets sell so many unhealthy foods. The Robert Wood Johnson calculates that only 30% of the packaged products in supermarkets, can be considered healthy. About 90% of the packaged products in supermarkets, are ultra-processed. So, a supermarket is really, a food swamp, surrounded by, a perimeter with some healthy food products and adding those kinds of markets to a poor neighborhood does very little to change a dietary behavior. And it's food swamps that are the problem. And it isn't just corner bodegas and convenience stores that are part of the food swamp. Even pharmacies now, are part of the food swamp. When I go to my CVS to fill a prescription, I have to walk through aisle after aisle of candy, soda, snack foods, junk foods to get to the pharmacy counter. So, I can try to protect my health and spoil my health in a single visit.   Interesting way to look at it. Let's end with this question. So in your book, you have favorable things to say about plant-based imitation meats and you chide the food movement activists for rejecting these new products because they're processed, why do you defend them?   Well I don't defend them on the strictest nutrition ground. An impossible burger or beyond burger isn't much better for you than real beef patty, particularly if you have it with a soft drink and fries, but I defend these products as substitutes for real beef because for environmental reasons, they have a carbon footprint that's 90% smaller than a real hamburger and they use 87% less water, 96% less land and also, risks to human medicine, that come from our current use of antibiotics in livestock production. The problem of antibiotic resistance is a serious threat to human medicine. That problem disappears when the livestock aren't there and also, animal welfare abuse disappears. Now I know food movement activists don't like plant-based meats because they're ultra-processed or because they're patented or corporate or not traditional or artisanal, but these critics have to come up with a better way to reduce our over consumption of animal products, before I'm willing to join them in criticizing plant-based substitutes. I mean, the fashion industry has switched to imitation fur and the shoe industry has switched to imitation leather. So, why shouldn't we allow our food industries to shift to imitation meat?   Bio: ROBERT PAARLBERG is adjunct professor of public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School and an associate at Harvard's Weatherhead Center. He has been a member of the Board of Agriculture and Natural Resources at the National Research Council, a member of the Board of Directors at Winrock International, and a consultant to the International Food Policy Research Institute, the U.S. Agency for International Development, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. He is the author of Starved for Science, Food Politics, and The United States of Excess. He lives in Massachusetts.

Reach Robert at Linfield National Golf Club: www.linfieldnational.comTRANSCRIPTDiane Dayton  0:02  This is Changing the Rules. A podcast about designing the life you want to live, hosted by KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world.KC Dempster  0:13  Good morning, everybody. Welcome to Changing the Rules. This is KC Dempster and Ray Loewe is with me and we are speaking to you from Wildfire Podcast Studios in beautiful downtown Woodbury. And I have to say, it is a beautiful, beautiful day on unlikely weather for November, but I am embracing it. Because I'm one of the luckiest people in the world. And I planned my life to be this way.Ray Loewe  0:43  Okay, good for you. You know, I you mentioned that we're sitting here at beautiful Wildfire Podcast Studios. And I need to make a quick comment about this, because Wildfire has been a wonderful partner with us. You know, we started doing podcasts a little over a year ago, we had no experience, we had no idea what we're doing. We still don't know what we're doing. Okay,KC Dempster  1:07  Speak for yourself.Ray Loewe  1:08  But But what happened here is that Wildfire led us through the process. And we have a comfortable situation right now. We come down here every other Tuesday and, and record and our engineer Taylor has been wonderful and the people that we've been dealing with has been wonderful. So you know, if you're thinking about doing a podcast at some point in time, start with Wildfire. It's, it's it's a you'll never leave. Right? Okay. All right. So we have a guest today. His name is Robert Kleckner. And, Robert. Just say hi. You're not on yet. But say hi.Robert Kleckner  1:45  Good morning, everybody.Ray Loewe  1:47  You had to change it Didn't you see? See Robert is one of those who changes the rules. Yeah. All right. And he'll do whatever he wants to do. So when we have this podcast called Dhanging the Rules, it is based around some of the luckiest people in the world. And we define the luckiest people in the world as those people who plan and design their own life. And then they step into it, and they make it work. Right. And you're gonna see in a couple minutes as we go through Robert's story here that he is very definitely one of the luckiest people in the world. And let's start with a quick break here, Taylor, and then we're gonna move right into our interview with Robert.Diane Dayton  2:31  You're listening to changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe, the luckiest guy in the world. We will be right back with more exciting information.Ray Loewe  2:41  Okay, I'm on right, KC?KC Dempster  2:43  Yes.Ray Loewe  2:43  Okay. All right. So I had the opportunity to meet Robert a good 20 plus years ago, okay. And Robert was at that time, a professional golfer, he still is a professional golfer. But over over time, Robert made some strategic moves with I, which changed his life, it's gonna change his family's life very much for the positive, because he's done all the things that the luckiest people in the world to do. So Robert, say hello again. And talk to me a little bit about Linfield National in a general sense, and then we'll get into how you managed to wind up there.Robert Kleckner  3:27  Well, good morning, everybody. And it is an absolutely beautiful day, inside and out. And a little bit about Linfield National Golf Course. So I've been at Linfield for 19 years now, an 18 hole public golf course, located right up before 22, Carter, probably about 15 miles from King of Prussia. And it opened in 1997. And as I said, I've been here since '01. So it's been a tremendous, tremendous facility and place to say I come to work every day.Ray Loewe  4:03  Well, I think it's a little more than just coming to work because you actually own Linfield Golf Course, don't you?Robert Kleckner  4:11  That's correct. So I arrived here in '01 prior to 9/11. And I owned another 9 hole facility at the time. And I sold that and I came in here with two builders. And I ran a couple facilities for the builders. And then in '08, you know, things went sideways, and for building and construction and the economy and I took a negative and turned it into an opportunity. And then in 2012 I settled on the facility. And from that point on, I've been the sole owner of the property and the golf course.Ray Loewe  4:54  Okay, so let's break this thing into two pieces because I think you have two lives here. One is you're a professional golfer, right? And number two, you're an entrepreneur. Okay? So So let's talk about this entrepreneur kind of a thing, because here you are, I know, I helped you go through this. But it was 20 years ago, and you had this opportunity to purchase this golf course. And what kind of goes through your head or went through your head, when you had to make these decisions and, and take some risk in order to get the rewards that you want to get?Robert Kleckner  5:35  Yeah, so there's many, many, you know, paths or rivers, or everyone explain why this, why this happened. So in '08-09, they were looking, they stopped building things were going very into the economy for the construction was was not in a very good state. And they stopped paying me here. So I was looking at, at possibly getting out of golf business totally. The head professional jobs are few and far between, you know, we're in an oversaturated market at the time of golf courses. And, and I wanted to go primarily into back into the private sector, to be head professional, which that's where I came from. And I looked at other jobs outside of the golf business, whether it was going to be with with gambling, or Wawa or financial institution, insurance company, a lot of people had opportunities for me to, to segue out of the golf industry, and, and go into a different line of work totally, but still using my skills of dealing with people. And I think that's kind of how this all kind of transpired and formed out. So I decided to take it upon myself, I talked to my wife, and she said, I was crazy. Um, when she tells me that a lot, and I went out looking for banks, which in '08, '09, no one wanted, no one would touch this place with a 10 foot pole, or, or six, or in these times six feet. So no one would touch me. And so I shopped the banks. But I shopped the banks, like, I wanted them, I was interviewing them, and then instead of them interviewing me, and in that perspective, I had a lot of banks come back to me. And then I signed an agreement of sale in 2011. And settled in 2012, and then 2013, the economy and everything else started turning in the right direction. And so my toughest obstacle, I'm doing this by myself and not going for any other partners or anyone else. For funds or funding. The toughest thing was the was the hurdle, the bank, but I established a great relationship with a small bank, and still customer to this day. And that's kind of you know, in a quick, quick story on how that all work. There was many, many things I was told 20 times, I couldn't do it. I was told no by many, many people, this isn't going to work, you're not going to be able to do this. But I never stopped trying. Um, and I think that was the biggest thing is I never took no for an answer. And yes, I am a golf professional, and an entrepreneur but I always say I'm an entrepreneur that ended up being a golf professional. So I always had this in  me um, I always had ownership, I always had business sense. I always had wanted to own something, whether it was a Life is Good t shirt store to a candy shop that I I found down in, in in in Kiowah Island, I thought was amazing. So just something like that. And I don't think I set like a passing Oh, I'm going to own a golf course one day, I think just all the hard work on the day to day, day to day day to day, like training for a marathon. You train every day. And then you go out and you run it and I trained every day not realizing I can run it and and it all came through. And a lot of good people I worked at three high end private country clubs around the Philadelphia area and my network is phenomenal. And I never even knew what the word network meant. Or until I got through at all. And I've tremendous amount of people that you can say network I call them friends, friend work. I think they're they're all they're all friends of mine. I could pick up the phone at all levels in the in the community around Philadelphia. And it's pretty cool. I've been as I said, lucky I am lucky. I love coming to work every day. I go on vacation. and I miss this Place. So super fortunate. But I have a great, great family foundation with my parents, and then my wife and my two children, which everyone's always been so supportive, and I think that makes makes it a lot easier being in the golf business or running any business. The Home Front, you know, some days, the business comes first, some days, I come first some days, the family comes first. And I think that's the balance in any successful relationship business. Friendship, there has to be a balance, because it goes one sided one way some one of those areas will and definitely will suffer.KC Dempster  10:39  Right? Right. Just this is an aside, do either one of your children play golf.Robert Kleckner  10:45  Ah, my son just started.KC Dempster  10:48  And how old is he,Robert Kleckner  10:49  He is a three sport athlete. He is 15. And then he, he actually made the varsity team, but he you know, he just you know, he's a three sport athlete, and he just picked it up. But they, they, they both this was definitely a home for them for COVID they came up here door and the closing show, they were super blessed. Even though I was closed for seven and a half weeks, from March until May 1, they came up here I still came to work every day. As as so I was blessed. I wasn't open. But we did a lot of projects, the kids could do stuff, they could get on on on their laptops and do school from, you know, from from here. And then when we opened we just, you know, then they were they put some hours in because the sports were basically all canceled. And so they had a lot of time. So they were they were blessed by being and I was blessed to have them be here around me and being able to work and being able to get out and you know, be a little social as best they could not around their friends and peers at school, but at least they had an opportunity. So So back to the question, Bobby does play a little golf. Wendy does play a little and Addie does play little. So they all play a little bit. But they they don't. You know, they, they have their own little paths that they're looking at, which is great. Yeah, which I want them. I want them to create their own path. Sure, I don't want them to create a path for them to come back and say, Okay, I'm gonna run this golf course you take it over, if they finish all their schooling, and they get all the right things in line, and they come back and they want to purchase this from me, then then that would be an option. But other than that, they they're gonna come up with their own careers at this point,KC Dempster  12:37  right? It has to be their choice.Ray Loewe  12:38  Cool. You know, let's take a minute and talk a little bit about golf as a sport, because I know when I was growing up, it was the it was the sport of country clubs, okay. And a lot of people I know, played all the time, it was a major thing to do. And then, several years ago, I heard that golf was kind of losing its esteem. Because it's so complicated. And if you're going to be any good at the sport, you got to play a lot. And it was frustrating to a lot of people me, especially by the way, okay. And I understand they were taking golf courses, and they were turning them into different kinds of things. So So what's happening with the sport of golf right now? And where is it going? And how is this gonna affect you going forward?Robert Kleckner  13:26  Well, I definitely think what has happened since May 1, when we reopened in the state of Pennsylvania, it definitely was a shot of steroid into the golf industry, because the first thing they opened was fishing in Pennsylvania, and then that, and then the next thing was was, was golf. So there wasn't there's three things to do walk in the park, go play golf, or go fishing. So it definitely brought a lot of people back into the sport. I think what happened after there's three booms that I that I've lived through is when I was a young kid, I was a cart kid, and in, you know, the late 80s, early 90s, the AOL tech boom of golf, and then the Tiger boom, and the Tiger boom caused a big influx of golfers but also it caused a big influx of golf courses. So when we after 9/11, we had golf decreasing and an oversaturated market with golf courses. So I think the good thing that has happened since '01-'02 in the Bucks County and Montgomery and Philadelphia area, Westchester area. We've lost golf courses for good reason. So the saturation of golf courses. Is is going down the saturation of golf courses that were in Arizona or the Carolinas or Florida that had construction attached to them. They kind of just went away or plowed over We're in the Philadelphia area. golf courses went away for great reasons the hospital Einstein hospital. We had a couple of developments. Toll Brothers have Ocean Valley, Limekilm, Center Square Phoenixville, a school district, took over Bank of America up to up in Allentown area got another golf course. So we lost a lot of golf course. So back to that. So are we're getting back to a normal inventory or some kind of a normal ratio of golfers to golf courses in the Philadelphia area, which is definitely an asset for private clubs, resorts or public facilities. So I do see golf, I mean it is it is going up, you know, it's just like the market, it's going to correct itself. If it's not sustainable, it's not going to be like this. Next year, it may be a little bit less, but I think there's going to be a lot of people that are going to stay in it. And I think it's the you know, the Generation X and the millenniums or whatever, whatever age category you want to talk about, I think the biggest thing with golf was time. And that's number one. And the other thing with golf is the average golfer back in the 80s used to play 2.5 times a week now the golf average golfer, average golfer plays point five. And because the husband and wife work, you know, little Johnny and Susie play games every Saturday. I mean, you can play baseball year round soccer all year round, field hockey all year round. So lacrosse all year round. So a lot of the weekends are getting sucked up by you know, the husband and wives that can't get out on Saturdays. Now they're going through the games. So that's where this the COVID and the lack, you know, the cut back on the sports and stuff, help some of some of the golfers to play more and I see a lot more youth playing golf, which is phenomenal. I know our youth programs or high school programs are pretty competitive. You know they have cut in golf programs up and up in this area in the past which is Methacten and then Springfield and Phoenixville and Norristown and PV and and Owen j Roberts up in this net. And so that was that was never, that was never an issue. They're always looking for golfers to play these teams or play on the high school team. So you can definitely see the younger generation and it is a lifetime sport. And I can't tell you how many countless athletes where people doesn't they don't necessarily the athletes come through and say, Man, I wish I would have started earlier. I wish I would have you know, started playing because it is a great sport to continue to play as you age up through through your life.Ray Loewe  17:47  Yeah. So I wish I would have started playing early. Enjoy fit now. Am I part of the group?Robert Kleckner  17:55  Okay, it's never too late. It's never too late to start.Ray Loewe  17:59  Okay, well, well at 104. Okay, I, you know, maybe I can pick up a golf club, though. But But, I mean, I think you're right. I think golf is here. I think it's a question of what you guys do to the youth movement too, to keep it going. Let me ask you a couple of other questions, because I know you've put in other things other than golf. So you start with the golf course. And I think you did some things with cell towers and you did some things with indoor golf kinds of things. Talk to us about some of the entrepreneurial moves that you made as far as your organization is concerned.Robert Kleckner  18:40  Yes, so you know, anything with you know, originally I worked in the ski business all through high school and college at ski shop and work as a cart kid. And and I always thought I'd be out in Denver working a ski resort in the wintertime and and golf course in the summertime and then eventually one of the design ski boots and be a doctor, Podiatrist and things like that? That was my original thoughts in high school. So when I took over this business, I knew I saw businesses that were seasonal and how, how much of a challenge it is. So I figured I figured out when I'm taking over this facility, I got to figure out how to out what do we do in the book ends? What do I do before and after daylight savings? What do I do at night? What can I do here? And I thought about some things some things did stick and some things didn't. The first thing is the cell tower, which was probably one of my other than, you know, getting married and having kids while a major and graduating college is one of my major accomplishments because literally I talked about being told no, no. When I first took over here I called every cell tower company that I could find and They all told me we you don't call us we call you. So like. Okay. So they said, I said, Okay, well then what do I do for you to call me? And they said, Well, yeah, you have to register your property and, and so on and so forth. So, so I did that. And then it was like a sleeping, you know, Sleeping Bear for about a year and a half, and then all of a sudden, my phone blew up. So I got some calls, and I had a young guy come drive down from New York City, I was his very first customer just started with. the company. And he made it, his, he put it on his platform that I was going to get one, you know, and it's very difficult to get one if you you know, different townships and different restrictions and different heights, and neighborhoods and, and, and of course, you know, the local governments like to have them because of the revenue, which is great. Whether it's the police or fire companies or township buildings, so you know, your, your battle on that, because you have to get it through the township to get it passed. So, um, but I, you know, I've always had great relationships, wherever, wherever I, everywhere I worked, I worked, like I owned the facility, even though I didn't. So I always establish really good relationships with people. And I did a lot of good things in the community always volunteered. And I'm not saying I didn't give to get, but I always gave, and it seems to come around full circle 10-15-20 years later, so that I got it all, you know, took me four years to get it through. So it was not an easy process by any means. And so that was one of them. That was a good accomplishment. Second thing is, uh, I took 3000 square feet of my indoor Golf Club of my clubhouse. And I turned this is seven years ago. This is way before it's hot right now. I mean, golf simulators are the hottest thing in the market right now in the industry, just because of the technology. And, and of course, knowing people want these in their homes, because they, you know, they, they can't do too much at the time back in the fall and early like March and April. And then this winter, you know, everyone wants them in their own home if they can't, if they can't get out. So we built six of them in here, which bridged my basically November for the next six months. So so you can come and play you know, you can play Pebble Beach, you can play Merion, you can play Linfield indoor. And it's a pretty, pretty cool thing. So that that was that was that was really exciting to do that. SoRay Loewe  22:42  cool. Well, you know, it's all good things happen when we come to the end of our time. And we actually are over our time over here, Robert, but your story is a wonderful story. No, you're forgiven. But your story is a wonderful story. And I think we can all see why Robert is one of the luckiest people in the world. And some of the things that he's done the perseverance, the the being of unafraid to take some reasonable risks and things like that to expand your business and do things and we're going to have to have you on again, and you're going to have to get me out and teach me how to play golf so that I can enter into the world of old age, you know, with my second sport here, Robert? So soRobert Kleckner  23:24  well, one quick thing, right? First ages and number lights and attitude. That's I love to say that and number two, you were a great inspiration, many breakfast meetings with you about all kinds of stuff. So you were part of my path to success with some of your guidance. Thank you.Ray Loewe  23:45  Well, thanks for being you. And we'll have you back at sometime soon. So we're at the end of our show, KC. You know, one quick thing I want to remind everybody of is December 2 is our virtual conference. You can register on our website. And if you want to get in touch with Robert, we'll put his website in our podcast notes, so you're going to be able to reach him and everybody get out and play golf. It's a safe sport today. So thanks for being with us.Diane Dayton  24:14  Thank you for listening to Changing the Rules, a podcast designed to help you live your life the way you want, and give you what you need to make it happen. Join us in two weeks for our next exciting topic on changing the rules with KC Dempster and Ray Loewe luckiest guy in the world.  

So Robert and I have been friends on Instagram and Facebook for some time now but we finally had a chance to sit down and talk about what he has been up to and he has so much going on! So proud of you my friend! BIO Robert Palmer Watkins caught the acting bug early on, beating out hundreds of other teens for the coveted role of Danny in Barksdale Theater's production of GREASE. After 2 years of studying musical theater at Christopher Newport University, he left everything behind to move west where he would graduate from the prestigious American Musical and Dramatic Academy in Hollywood. Robert's professional journey began when he booked his first guest stars on Spike's 1000 WAYS TO DIE and Lifetime's MY CRAZY EX. Soon after, he was elevated to leading man status in his first feature, SAFARI. Rob now boasts a robust resume including credits such as FRAT HOUSE MUSICAL for Subway, web series SKETCH JUICE, feature film BACK TO AWESOME, and Cinemax's THE GIRL'S GUIDE TO DEPRAVITY. Watkins racked up 191 episodes in his two and a half years as Dillon Quartermaine on ABC's iconic GENERAL HOSPITAL. Robert recently starred in two action thrillers, LAST THREE DAYS and PUNCTURE. He has two pilots under his belt with CW Seed's CUPID'S MATCH, starring as the titular Cupid, and GREEN VALLEY, starring as Eddie Escovedo. Robert will also soon appear in AMC's new THE WALKING DEAD: WORLD BEYOND spinoff, airing fall 2020. When he's not on set you'll find Robert at the gym, the beach, on hikes, or in jam sessions with his buddies. He also values quality time with his family back home in Richmond, VA, and North Carolina. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/mimosaswithmichael/support

Robert Martinez is the Founder and CEO of Rockstar Capital, an investment and multi-family property management firm specializing in the acquisition and management of value-add opportunities across Texas. Currently, the portfolio consists of 3,762 units across 21 communities. As the CEO and founder, Robert Martinez directs the investment strategy, sources the investment capital, and secures the appropriate financing. Since 2011, Rockstar Capital Management has become one of the most decorated property management companies in Texas with 17 City, State, and National Apartment Associations awards. Other industry achievements include Top-Rated status by ApartmentRatings.com for the entire Rockstar portfolio from 2015-2018 and the distinction of being ranked the #4 multifamily management company in Texas and for online reputation by J Turner Research. In all, five Rockstar Capital communities ranked in the Top 1% nationally (out of over 116,000 communities) for online resident satisfaction. Most recently, Rockstar Capital was included in the prestigious Houston Business Journal Fast 100 for the second consecutive year (2018 & 2019). Robert was also named an Honoree on HBJ's Most Admired CEO List in 2019 and Rockstar Capital received its first international recognition as a Great Place to Work, achieving Silver Rank from the Stevie Awards.   Thank you so much for listening! WE ARE SO GRATEFUL!!!! Our Sponsor:  Multifamily Foundation If you are serious about learning how to buy apartment buildings then don't wait, go to www.multifamilyfoundation.com and let us help you build your foundation. Investing for Lifestyle and Legacy: https://www.yarusiholdings.com/ Our ENTIRE Podcast, Books and Health Suggestions: https://www.amazon.com/shop/yarusiholdings Subscribe To Us On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1SuXB01d14DC8ZnEWpRQdQ?sub_confi rmation=1 Subscribe To Us on #Libsyn: http://multifamilyfoundation.libsyn.com/website Subscribe To Us on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-multifamily-foundation/id1484177595   Transcription: Well, hello again, welcome back to the Jason and Pili project. Today is Multifamily Foundation, super excited to have Robert Martinez on the show. Hey Robert, how you doing? Man, how are you doing? I am doing super. You have a great set up right down there. So excited to have you on the show and a little bit more about Robert. Robert's the founder and CEO of Rockstar Capital and investment in Multifamily, property management firm, specializing in the acquisition and management of value, add opportunities across Texas. Currently the portfolio is 3,762 units across 21. Communities got a lot of backgrounds. He's won a lot of awards across this property management. It looks like you've learned some property management in house. We have a lot we could talk to today and really let's just dive in. So here I see your main focuses are really on the strategy, the investment capital and securing appropriate financing. And you said you just got off an investor call, which is there's a lot of investors out there just wondering what's next. And none of us have the crystal ball, but how are you taking the day to day operations really, as you are progressing throughout managing such a large portfolio, you know, th th the day to day started three years ago. That's when this started because you are where you're at today and how you're handling this today, based on the decisions you did three years ago, three years ago, I sat   with a mentor. His name is Gary Vaynerchuk, and he told me, Hey, you need to find holes in your business and then figure out a defense against it. And one of the holes in my business was that I was unknown. I didn't have much of a brand. People didn't know where to find me. And if I can't find me, how are they going to, how are they going to lease from me? Right? So it was really important that we, over the last 36 months, we spent a significant amount of resources. We haven't, you know, we have our own in house video team. We are able to now storytell, we have reputation management that, that ranks among the highest in the country. When people come to our sites, they're going to be able to not just read reviews, but they can now go through the entire leasing process. Online only they can take a virtual tour within one of our models and take them room by room by room. It's like a little dollhouse that takes them all the way around. They can follow their application online. They can pay their rent online. They can send in their screening information, they get everything approved so that they don't have to come to the office other than to get their key. That has made a big difference right now. Um, since this officially started March 23rd, um, I just got an event, a large investor call, uh, um,   and we did 168 leases, 70 of which were online only that's 105 leases for the portfolio that were, people did not come to the office. It was no, you know, our offices are closed, but they're open for scheduled by appointment. We, we observe social distancing, but a lot of you don't want to do that, right? They want to just, but they do want to leave. And so I'm sorry. They do want to move in and they want to be wherever they're at, because there's an issue there. We've got 105 leases with the doors closed, and we knew we had this capability. We knew people were taken advantage of people from out of state or out of town, you know, six months ago, a year for a year ago, or, you know, that's how they would find us. They find us online. They, they, they would, uh, check out our size, look at our videos, read the reviews, and then they would lease. Now 70% of the market is doing that. And if you didn't have, we didn't make that decision. 36 months ago, we will be in a very different situation right now. That would be 105 movements that are not expecting those movies haven't even occurred yet. So I'm looking forward to the occupancy going up, but more importantly, they have to pass screening, which means they still have a job, which means they have good employment. They have good rental history, and they're   now ready to enhance the integrity of our portfolio. So it's, I think you prepare for the today three years ago. So you prepare three years ago, you come up with a rockstar brand, which is you what's that through message that that brings across not only to your tenant base, but also to your investors. What do the investors is? I, one of the best operators in the country, our company has won 17 city state national apartment association awards. Our company is ranked number two nationally for online resident satisfaction. That's against Greystar candidate. I don't care who your name is. We're number two, nationally. We have the number one and the number two property ranked highest for online resume reviews in the country. And I'm the, country's only two time national apartment association, independent owner of the year. That's the brand we wanted to get out there. There's a brand of confidence. There's a brand that credibility and more pointing results. I've done 12, 100% cash out refinance events. Since 2011. I put those numbers. I up those numbers against anybody before I ever took an investment dollar from 2007, until 2011, I ran 2000 units as the operating arm. And in another company I was involved with. I, I cut my teeth during the great recession. That's what I learned. I used my sales background from my previous life, brought into the apartment world. I taught my team how to lease. I taught them how to   survive. I talked to him the whole, how to, how to ask the right questions, how to, how to make sure you, you, you make the prospect feel comfortable and how to close the door. Uh, we, then we show you how to take care of them. All those things I learned before I ever took an investment dollar. So now with my own company, since 2011, almost 4,000 units, $380 million portfolio, I believe that's why we're successful. That's awesome. Now, as an operator, what are those operating components that you're doing that are just bringing such great reviews? I think number one is you got to have heart. You gotta to recruit people because the name of the game is people right now, right? One of the things that we first did when this occurred, and it was a lot of uncertainty in the market, we brought certainty to our teams. I told them right now, I don't care. What happens. I got your back. I asked you all the time to cover my back, the play with heart. I'm going to make sure to sh I'm going to make sure that when I'm here for you, I'm going to show you. And I'm going to guarantee your employment this entire time. I don't care if I have to use my reserves. I don't care. I have to tap my line of credit at the bank. I'm going to make sure that my team comes to play every day.   And then one thing they don't have to worry about is am I going to have a job tomorrow? Cause I can't get the best out cause this will pass. And when this passes, you're going to be judged and your teams don't remember how you are. So I surround myself with heart. Number one, number two, I want to make sure that the right story that gets told out to the public, right? You go to hate sites like apartment ratings, dot com or even Google. And there's nothing but negativity, right? Why it's there because you let somebody else control the narrative. You need to control the narrative because when somebody moves in, aren't they happy when somebody renews aren't they happy? Why would they be renewing? So why don't you get them to play review for you? Why don't you drown out the hate? Why do you let somebody who's being evicted for nonpayment of rent control the narrative? Why do you let somebody who's being evicted? Cause because they can't park it in, um, cause they park in a fire lane and you want them to not park in the fire lane or they parked in a handicapped spot and they come in and they start, you know, trying to hurt you while you letting them control the narrative. Why don't you let the positivity of your business control the narrative. You don't become top ranked in this country without telling that story. And it's my   job to promote it or I'm demoting what we're doing. So my teams understand that. And as they understand that, that I think at the beginning of operations, you know, I kept saying this certainly messages is so important because I saw people just literally firing people when we had no certainty of where this was going. I mean, March 23rd year, you're just day one, firing people. Well, what's the message that's going to send out to your team, right? That team is going to say, okay, so three weeks later, a month and a half later, you bring them back. You think they're going to trust you through the next up and down here. And so you look at this and you look across your point. It's going to be how you adapt to uncertainty, right? We have so much uncertainty. We can, we can have across the board, but it's gonna be uncertainty that we're going to be judged on. And like restaurants know I've opened restaurants before and the negative views because that's usually the people who write the most reviews for the negative. But if you ask for the people who you're doing your best thing for that's, that's just a great point, right? You want to have those people who maybe just don't think about it, right? They're renewing their lease. They're not thinking about writing a review because they're happy generally you'll get that wrong response for someone who just come across the board   because you know, like they said, you were parking in the fire lane. So asking for, for the, all the good people, not letting the one person who just did something that wasn't ideal for the property stand out because they're 31. That's the message had been sold. So now looking back at 2008, 2010, 2012, when you're operating, compared to today, what are some of the parallels or just some of the differences you're seeing in those times? Well, there's a lot of fear right now, right? There's a lot of fear going on in the marketplace. And again, you want to control the narrative because your residents are our way is going to dictate your financial future. So what are they watching? They're watching CNN, they're watching Fox news. They're watching the president speak and they're watching whatever rumor they find on social media. My mom sent me one the other day about how they're closing this and there's a curfew. And so some ridiculous. I was like, mom, what are you talking about? You started like Nazi Germany, where you gained this from, Oh, I saw it on Facebook. I'm like, all right. So that's where your residents are getting information from. So you got to come in there and be the adult in the room. You got to stand up just like you're going to stand up and lead your company and let them know, Hey, you're going to be securing your appointment. Hey, here's a   $250 check date that we gave to one of our residents to all of our staff to let them know, Hey, I'm here for you. This should help cover your extra, your extra funds of this month. And I'll probably do it again in may because it's the right thing to do well with the residents. You've got to lead them. You've got to control the narrative first. You gotta warm call them and let them know, Hey, are you okay? What's going on with you? Do you need any assistance? Are you aware of all these different assistance programs coming out? Are you aware that we're going to be closing the office? Now's the time to get your workers in? Because come Monday, we're going to close hours, us for emergency work orders only, you know, you've got to guide them through this process. Then you have to try to promote, right. Hey, if you can pay your rent on time by the first, I'll give you 5% off May's rent. Oh wow. Okay. That gives me some certainty. That gives me some comments in a base of work off of now, here it is April 4th and we've collected like 80, 84% of the rent. Okay. Mission accomplished. Now, how do we get the lay payers? How do we get the stragglers? Okay. So you make another promotion with them. You do another payment plan with them. If they can pay the rent by this month, they will get,   um, late fees knocked off from last month or they'll get, they'll get a credit, you know, whatever you can do to help control this, to help bring the fear down and let them know we're here. And also, Hey, let them know. Many of them don't even know that, uh, that the government gave enhanced unemployment benefits. Nobody, no hearsay to Texas. The max weekly benefit is $521. And that's, if you're a highway journey making six years, $70,000 a year, right. But if you're making 30, 40, it's going to be a puration of that. But the government came in and added $600 on top of that. So they may not know that that's coming when, when their unemployment check comes in. So now my residents have, let's say 300 bucks, 400 bucks, not the full five 21, but now they have another 600, they got 900 to a thousand dollars in their pocket, every single week that they didn't know. But they're making fear-based decisions, like not paying their rent. Like they have to hoard this. No, you're got money coming in. Right. So if you educate them, you can control the narrative. And that's what we've been doing. We've been educating them in a very, in the most sympathetic and empathetic way we can to let them know we're all in this together. Yeah. One of the best things you could do right now is to be a facilitator of great information, right? So I set   up Google alerts and I pass those along to the management company. And really from that point, it allowed them to reach out to tenants and tends to need to hear from you. You don't want tenants to be in the dark because ultimately who knows how they're doing. So reaching out text message, email letters, whatever the point. Cause especially if you're not going to have the office open, just to know that you're there for them. You're trying to find other ways, because just through the Google alerts alone, I found three or four local programs that I wouldn't know because I'm a thousand miles away from my apartment buildings that are there. And I got ahead of it from the management company. And some of those residents are now able to really have another angle. They can go out. So now having the property management side, along with the operation side, what, what is some of the advantages you see to that right now in this specific time where if you were using third party, you wouldn't have that advantage. Well, look, and I know I sound like you use third party. I'm not a fan of third party. I grew up in a situation where, and I joined a real estate club to begin with, right? And that real estate club, they showed me how to run operations. And one, the number one things that they did was they asked that if you're going to take   an investment dollars from somebody that you quit your job and you regardless with your life. And that's what I did when I got started his business back back in 2007, 2008, I walked away from my $150,000 a year, day job, which is good money here in Houston, Texas. And I, and I went to work on site making 30 to $36,000, you know, for a period of time until we grew. But I learned the business and I learned, and I learned, I learned how to collect and knock on doors. Right? Cause it's a skill. I learned how to lease an apartment the right way. It's one thing where I'm trying to sell a $500 piece of equipment to a guy with a PhD, right. And explain to him, Hey, the lifecycle cost benefit. It's a whole nother story. Having that same conversation with somebody who's making $35,000 a year. And you're trying to at least a $600 apartment, you got to go through this. Right. And really, I can't trust a company. That's a thousand miles away to have my best interests. It's not their money. They don't have skin in the game I do. And when I was going to get that means my kids have skin in the game. That means my mom has got skin in the game. That means my mother-in-law or whoever else is important to me, has skin in the game. And so I think those are some of the   success traits that I had in my business. Being a good operator is that I was willing to learn. I ran 2000 units under my other company before I ever took an investment dollar. And that was really important to me because I need to make sure that before I ever raised the money myself, right, that I was confident and secure that I could return that money back to them. And I guess that's why I have the returns that I have where I've got 12, 100% cash out refinance events. I would have had some more this year, but you know, the virus knocked them out for a little while. I'm not because my operations aren't there. But because the banks are really, really squarely right now and changing terms on, I had a refinance, I was going to return a, you know, a monster even with property was we paid 20 million for it. And 16 is worth 33 million Ford. Right now we're about to do a monster refinance event. We were going to actually reduce our debt service because the IO period is so low that now the bank wants to go and take 18 months of it and put it at P and I reserve and it's like, well, what do you do? You know, I'll wait until this. This is over. And then we'll go back and try to get our, our, our, our bite of the Apple then. Well, yeah, the strong operations gives   you the ability to choose the right timing. And that's the, that's the best thing, right? When you have the reserves, you have the cashflow. And honestly you have to the point, solid debt, longterm debt, you can sit there and make good choices. You're not pushed to a decision where if you were sitting there and you need to have this cross, and now you have to put all this money, extra pocket, it changed the narrative. So looking at what you're doing now, how is your acquisition strategy change? Or are you still acquiring? Because now we're looking at the different loan options that are, that we now have come to the table with. Yeah. So in February I a big rockstar tour, I rented out a bus and I took my investors to four different rockstar properties. Each of these properties were ranked in the top 1% of the country for resident satisfaction. And, and each of those two nights that we had this event, I, I presented two different deals that we were going to do. They were deep in South Texas, a new market for us. One of them I was in contract. And the other one, I was essentially contract. And because the arena that all that was missing was wiring the earnest money. And I'm looking at this deal and I'm thinking, dude, this is crazy. Like, what did they, what did they do? A shelter in place order? What if, what are   the banks are playing around with terms, right? Cause they get scared. What if money dries up? Yeah. And so I decided, you know, we're not going to do this. I'm not going to do this on this deal. I'm not, it's too far South. Um, I hadn't even started due diligence yet. I'm going to have to get into units. I don't know what finance is going to look like and more important. I don't know what collections are going to look like. I don't know what's going to happen because you could buy that deal today on this cap rate against this NOI. But if collections drop between now and the next 90 days, 60 days, and I'm going to buy this deal, isn't it worth less than what it is when I bought it? Well, what if is a Fannie loan and not a bridge loan? It can't support a lower valuation because you just borrowed the money, 75% of this number, or what have you think you're going to get into it. And now the collections fall and the bank wants to retrade you. Yeah. So we decided not to do that deal. The other deal that I did have in Concord, I had personal money in the DUI to a hundred thousand dollars hard. We already had done our due diligence. All we had to do was close and it just didn't feel right. I had equity coming in that was ready to go. The   bank was offering their terms, but I know it's going to change once they see that the collections fell 15%, you know, and I'm just like, I don't need this deal. That back, you know, I have 21 deals I need to worry about. I got a hundred million dollars of people's money, but more importantly, my own family's money. My kids money's in these deals. Why am I chasing a deal? And so I think that's the difference between me and the average syndicator is that I don't need to get paid. I already, I have 21 deals, right? Where I'm the majority owner, right? I have a hundred million dollars of people's retirement, their nest eggs. And they rely on us to produce, produce a return. You know, every quarter, as you said, some people are stopping distributions. You saw one of the big syndicator guys out of Miami, Florida, who, who got a lot of crap, you know, for, for pausing his syndication distributions when he's used to doing it every month, which is that to me is a broken model. You should do a quarterly, not monthly, but he's getting a lot of hate for it. Maybe, maybe rightfully so, but yet he's telling you, operations are doing really well. Well, are they really doing well or are they not? Because why are you not a Chevy? I don't want that criticism. I want to know that I, that I'm running my deals in the way   that I can sleep at night, that I can take care of my teams and I can take care of the investor that gave me the money. So we're doing distributions this quarter. And maybe if my mind was focused somewhere else, I wouldn't have been able to make the decisions right now to keep it steady. I gotta have 21 deals I need to focus on. I don't need a 22nd deal that bad. And sometimes it's that one deal that takes up now 50% of your time, because it's not aligned with everything else going on. So you got a great choice. I hear you and looking, what do you feel like the lay? And of course you don't have a crystal ball. So that's just, that's just hypothesized, right? Looking forward to the rest of this year. How do you feel the rest of the year is going to shape up in terms of going to go incredible. I think for us, it's going to go incredible because right now we are leasing in a kit with a capability that most others don't have. They don't have virtual reality kit, but they don't have that hundred and five leases in the last 30 days as a result of VR and online leasing. So I feel good about that. Renewables. We haven't talked about renewals. Renewals are going crazy right now because we are pushing them. We know people are afraid. I'm going to take advantage of this.   I know they're not going to want to leave. So I'm going to find out, do you want to stay? We're offering special than renewals. We've never done a $2 renewal. Right. And I was trying to explain to the investors like, listen, that I know that's not the plan that we did, but all the money you make in real estate occurs when people renew, not when they move out. Cause when they move out, you got vacancy loss, you've got marketing costs, you got commission. Oh, and you still got to get the unit ready. Right. You might have to buy a new carpet. You may have to repaint. You got to resurface, you've got a new appliance, you've got a variety of things that could happen. And as you've got, as you know, the average, the average turnover is 1500, $3,000 to turn a unit. Well, now that stays in the NOI. Yup, absolutely. And everybody's renewing. So I think right now with the, with the occupancies we're at right now, which you're on 94 and change with the new leasing coming in and with renewals at an all time high, I think we're going to finish strong this year. I think this is borrowers is going to pass. Uh, um, I'm not sure what state you're in, but here in the state of Texas, the adults that have decided that they're going to start coming, they're going to start rolling and governing and they're going to   reopen the state, uh, rightfully sell cause uh, the, the, uh, figures don't match, you know, the, the, uh, the cure right now. And so I think, uh, I think we're going to be fine, you know, for today's the first week that is, are gonna open up for us again, and that restaurants are coming next and it's going to start to get back to normality, you know, but I think we're going to be okay. I'm a little worried about oil, you know, uh, you know, having seen minus $35 a barrel yesterday, or a couple of dollars a barrel today, you know, it's really interesting cause this is, you know, I heard Trump say on the, on TV yesterday, uh, or somebody was telling me that he wanted to buy 75 million barrels and put it into our reserve. But I don't know when that buy order went in, because at one point they they're giving you three to $5 to take it. Obviously the U S government can take it. Right. So when I did the math, somebody could, if could potentially pay him 2.5 billion to take the oil, I'm like, that's genius. If he, even if he didn't, he paid a dollar. Yeah. It's amazing right now to, to, to be a good business owner, to be a good steward of your investment of your investments. Uh, I think we're going to be okay the rest of the year. I mean, we're doing permissions later   this week. I told the investors on my call, we're going to do it. We made money. We have our PBP loan funded. We have six months reserves. We're going to do it. Yeah. This is a housing need, right? The housing need is still there regardless. And, and keeping heads and beds is most important right now. And it just the approach of where some people are in large repositioning phases. And they were saying, well, you know, if I take this out and get a hundred on ramp up, was it better to get a $25 ramp up and not have them just in a release and have the cap X hit and have the vacancy and the downtime and having to go through this? No, not at all. Keep the person in the unit. Right? So not have that go down. So, and for us, we got different States across the States we're in. So I live in New Jersey. That will probably be a little slower than most States to come back. But other States, Kentucky, Georgia, and the others they'll come back a little quicker cause they don't have the same, you know, 20 minutes outside of New York city. So we'll see, but I'm not, I'm not stressing to the factory here. Cause it's not something that I can immediately control so I can control what I'm doing with our, our operations. But past that, then there's other lines that we're going to go for. But   I do think that we're going to get back. We're going to move. We have little hiccup again, that's going to maybe put some, you know, some other casts in there, but you have to look at your properties. And if you've been strong from the start with what you're doing, then there shouldn't be an issue. Now, if you were weak on really your business plan and maybe you were pushing too much on rent bumps, there are other things that maybe weren't aligning overall, but the process you might have to rethink your plan right now. But if you were strong with your operations over the last couple of years and you had the good, the best business plan going in, then just like anything, right. Things pop up right. And keeping a cool head is important. My dad used to always say, I can't control what happens outside, but I can control what happens within the four walls of my business. And I never forgot that, you know, he's no longer with us today, but I mean, I remember that him saying, I can, I can control what's in the four walls of my bed, which means I can control the narrative. I can keep a cool head. I can lead by example. And I can make sure that you take care of your people in your team, which I think is the most important thing right now. Yeah, I knew of course, banks can remember that   tenants can remember that investors are going to remember that everybody's going to remember here depending on no matter which direction it goes, how you operate and how you act accordingly. So Robert has been awesome, man. Really appreciate your time. Thanks so much for being on the show for the people that want to learn more about rockstar, rockstar, capital, where's the best way to connect with you and your team for sure. You know, there's something that you liked and you think you might want to invest to me. Hey, go to rockstar, capital.com, hit our investor link and you'll be able to be on that investor call that we just had. Or if you just want to follow me on Instagram at a party rockstar, I've got a bunch of free videos and micros or means showing what we do on a day to day basis. Our job is to document our journey to get the 10,000 units were just under 4,000 now. And so it will be we're documenting how we're having and how this is moving to where if you want to read some cool articles from us on LinkedIn, I'm under Robert Martinez, or just want to be my friend on Facebook. Just find me a rubber Martinez. Love it, man. I'm a fan. I'll follow you more. I'd love to hear more about and love to have you back in the future. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Appreciate your time and   all the listeners out there really appreciate your time. You know, you got valued here today. Go down, hit that subscribe button, give us a ratings review. Robert can get five stars. If I'm not ready for five stars, tell me what I'm worth. Tell me what I can do better. Tell me what better value I can bring to you again. Thank you so much for your time. We'll talk to thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Join us for your second cup of coffee. Every Monday through Friday at noon live everyday, bringing us our best content we've done so far. Super excited, super engaging bunch of great guests. We're here to answer your questions and so appreciate listening. Make sure to check this out. Can't wait to see you. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

TO READ THE TRANSCRIPT SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE.In episode 20 of the new Awaken The Possibilities Podcast, Host Terry Wildemann interviews Rober Belle on "Unlock Your Creativity To Improve Your Life”. Awaken the Possibilities Podcast features successful entrepreneurs and intuitive leaders who offer insights on how to attract success in business and life. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________About Robert Belle:I am a champion for people to blow the lid off their creative limitations so that they can live a more fulfilling life. I am on a quest to have people return to their heart centre and unlock their unique value by believing in their crazy ideas. I work with entrepreneurs to help them navigate the challenges of starting and growing a business through by making continuous minor adjustments that yield major improvements. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________About Terry Wildemann:Terry Wildemann is the owner of Intuitive Leadership® and a Business and Resilience Accelerator, Speaker and Certified Executive Coach.Terry's specialty is working with tired, unhealthy, close-to-burned-out entrepreneurs and professionals and helps them leap off the stress hamster wheel. They evolve into unstoppable stress resilient intuitive leaders and practical business mystics. Terry’s timely message guides clients and students to integrate intuition, stress resilience, positive communications and leadership with grounded business systems to achieve success by positively serving and influencing others. Her leadership experience includes owning a manufacturing company, image consulting company, leadership and holistic education center.Website URL:: www.IntuitiveLeadership.comFacebook Page: www.Facebook.com/intuitiveleaderFacebook Group: www.Facebook.com/groups/AwakenThePossibilitiesLinkedin: www.LInkedin.com/in/TerryWildemannTwitter: www.twitter.com/terrywildemann www.twitter.com/leaderintuition_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________TRANSCRIPT100:00:05.009 --> 00:00:05.670Terry Wildemann: Okay.200:00:09.059 --> 00:00:28.170Terry Wildemann: Welcome everyone to today's episode of awaken the possibilities. I'm your host, Terry will demand. One of the things about this show is that we focus on bringing exciting guests on board who help you awaken the possibilities in lots of different ways.300:00:29.250 --> 00:00:40.980Terry Wildemann: You know, one of the things about being an entrepreneurial leader is that it's important for us to stay open. It's important for us to stay flexible and it's important for us.400:00:41.430 --> 00:00:52.710Terry Wildemann: To be really clear on specific steps that get us to our goals. Unfortunately, we are sometimes unclear on the steps that we need to take500:00:53.130 --> 00:01:12.600Terry Wildemann: One of the things that I know about this, about our guests for today is that this very left brain person who is an accountant has a true creative side that helps him really bring out the best in his clients. So I would like to introduce you to Robert bell600:01:13.440 --> 00:01:25.890Terry Wildemann: Robert, is a transformational speaker a mentor and an ACC a qualified accountant. He helps people who feel stuck in their career or life journey.700:01:26.220 --> 00:01:31.800Terry Wildemann: To break away from the norm and find new paths that revealed their true value.800:01:32.160 --> 00:01:44.280Terry Wildemann: He focuses on dismantling the line between licensed professionals and the creative world. And that's really important because it's important for us to really integrate both sides of our brain.900:01:44.700 --> 00:01:52.110Terry Wildemann: He shared his secrets of creative success at his numerous speaking engagements, as well as on various TV and podcast interviews.1000:01:52.470 --> 00:01:59.580Terry Wildemann: He also spent much of his time mentoring and guiding men of all ages to have a strong positive impact on their families.1100:01:59.940 --> 00:02:10.950Terry Wildemann: And society as a whole is the winner of the 2019 advocate of the year. Congratulations by the ACC for his work, assisting other accountants.1200:02:11.190 --> 00:02:22.260Terry Wildemann: To embrace their creativity and reach new growth potentials, both personally and professionally. Welcome to the awaken the possibilities podcast Robert bell1300:02:26.040 --> 00:02:29.040Robert: Yeah, thank you so much, very excited to be here.1400:02:29.520 --> 00:02:34.920Terry Wildemann: Very nice to be here. Now Robert, as you can see I've got my angels on this side, which is my right side.1500:02:35.430 --> 00:02:39.420Terry Wildemann: And I've got all my left brain books on this side and I sit in the middle.1600:02:39.750 --> 00:02:45.540Terry Wildemann: I bring together the practical tactical a logical with the emotional the energetic the intuitive in the spiritual1700:02:45.960 --> 00:02:55.080Terry Wildemann: So we create practical business mystics here on the making the possibilities and I get a sense that that is what you do your own work. So can you tell us about it.1800:02:55.410 --> 00:03:03.000Terry Wildemann: What is it that got you to this place of integrating the left brain, the right brain and helping people to play with all of it.1900:03:05.730 --> 00:03:08.220Robert: Thank you again for having me on the podcast I am2000:03:09.660 --> 00:03:26.790Robert: I just decided to listen to the call of Nature and Science is not telling us that we were meant to not just be political or not just be creative only, but to be together is the way our brains are wired. It's how we are, we can all possibilities is how we thrive and not just merely survive.2100:03:28.380 --> 00:03:37.740Robert: You know, I've always was different kid growing up. And initially, I thought, is because I wasn't good enough. You know, we all hold go through that. But when I say2200:03:38.850 --> 00:03:39.270Robert: You say,2300:03:39.750 --> 00:03:40.890Terry Wildemann: I think a lot of us do.2400:03:42.390 --> 00:03:50.160Robert: And we do that because we we tend to look at our value based on what's happening on the outside and then when you get inside we realize we2500:03:50.520 --> 00:03:59.370Robert: Would have inside is different from what everyone else has. So let me just hide a part of me so that I can fit in. And that was me. That was just me. I was just going into flow.2600:03:59.940 --> 00:04:08.910Robert: Really hiding parts of the not exploring the you know the vast world that lives inside of me and I just decided, you know what2700:04:09.570 --> 00:04:13.290Robert: I can't do it anymore. I will. I literally couldn't fit in well. Like I struggled2800:04:13.590 --> 00:04:24.210Robert: And every time I tried to fit in, people will push me without me. No, you can't fit in here and I didn't understand what you're telling me I thought they were saying I'm not good enough. But you tell me know you're just unique you don't fit in here.2900:04:26.070 --> 00:04:30.510Terry Wildemann: And what is it that made you different from the rest of them.3000:04:33.150 --> 00:04:34.020Robert: Hopeless dreamer.3100:04:36.960 --> 00:04:46.350Robert: Curiosity imagination. I just couldn't accept the things just the way they are not that I didn't believe it, but I always believed, like we can do what we want to do.3200:04:46.710 --> 00:04:55.590Robert: Things that have to be the same. We can live in a world that we can create the world that we want to live it. We don't just have to accept it. So we can make steps to get there. When3300:04:56.160 --> 00:05:09.000Robert: Everyone around you like just crazy living in the clouds. You know, you just dream too much this is reality, he has. So why can't we make it a reality and I refused. I could never get an answer a question. So I decided to look for the answer myself.3400:05:09.870 --> 00:05:11.250Terry Wildemann: What did you find Robert3500:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.120Robert: Pandora's box.3600:05:16.950 --> 00:05:18.840Robert: When I started my journey I realized3700:05:19.980 --> 00:05:25.620Robert: I can start the journey by looking to figure out where I need to be I first needed to recognize where I was.3800:05:26.070 --> 00:05:36.330Robert: Which is a place that wasn't supposed to be. So before I could even get to figure out my why I had to figure out what's, why not I had to remove all the limitations and3900:05:36.840 --> 00:05:46.470Robert: Whenever I work with clients they always say you're taking steps backwards. You're going the wrong direction. But I said, No, we have to deconstruct all the stuff that we put in our lives, all the things we've accepted.4000:05:46.890 --> 00:05:56.400Robert: All the, you know, it's a Pandora's box. A lot of the good things are going to come out but also we have to deal with some, you know, hot, the part issue. So I started that journey and it was4100:05:56.760 --> 00:06:07.320Robert: Was a bit rough because there was no one to guide me and I realized, whoa, I have so many things that I believe are true that weren't really true. I mean, I could do what I want to do. I don't have to be an accountant and not be creative.4200:06:07.650 --> 00:06:09.810Robert: And that was the big push back and people can say4300:06:10.350 --> 00:06:17.160Robert: How can you come up with an idea you and our content, I think. So how does that limit me. It's just a profession. It's not who I am and I4400:06:17.460 --> 00:06:27.420Robert: Worked hard to make sure that people realize that I'm not limited by my profession are not limited by where I was born, or anything. I am a human being, and I am created to be unique.4500:06:29.190 --> 00:06:33.030Terry Wildemann: And isn't an unfortunate that so many people4600:06:34.320 --> 00:06:38.460Terry Wildemann: Have a hard time realizing that they themselves are also unique4700:06:40.530 --> 00:06:44.580Robert: It is, and that's why I started this journey. I said, I can't be selfish about it because4800:06:45.750 --> 00:06:54.390Robert: The person I am today is I could never have even dreamt about it. Yes, I was a big treatment green. Oh, but I would never have imagined.4900:06:54.720 --> 00:07:03.990Robert: I tell people, one of the big things. I came up came I conquered was public speaking. I could not speak in public I shivered I shaved ice sweat. I5000:07:04.920 --> 00:07:23.640Robert: It was really embarrassing. And if you tell me today like to introduce our speaker, I would never have imagined that absolutely not. And so many of us, we try to achieve the things we can see ahead of us. We don't go beyond that we don't try to do things that will even shock us5100:07:25.980 --> 00:07:28.470Terry Wildemann: So who do you speak to Robert5200:07:30.810 --> 00:07:33.930Robert: I call them a hidden misled creative5300:07:35.130 --> 00:07:35.850Terry Wildemann: Hidden5400:07:36.180 --> 00:07:38.250Terry Wildemann: Misled creatives.5500:07:38.700 --> 00:07:40.980Terry Wildemann: And where do you find these hidden miss5600:07:41.190 --> 00:07:45.600Terry Wildemann: Lead creators and what organizations do they belong to.5700:07:46.830 --> 00:07:54.960Robert: So I find them. My filler content in the back office who have ideas, but just keep quiet. The lawyer who's working nonstop always5800:07:55.260 --> 00:08:00.840Robert: You know, trying to prepare for case or something, who's just unsatisfied, someone who is I call them.5900:08:01.260 --> 00:08:07.740Robert: Superman Clark Kent, try to transition into Superman, they play the clock and rules so well in the nine to five.6000:08:08.100 --> 00:08:15.810Robert: But when they get into the domain of the craft or cookie and or just something they come alive and they leave that part of them there. So,6100:08:16.320 --> 00:08:24.750Robert: That's where I find these people people. What is granted people who don't necessarily want to climb the corporate ladder. But who wants to have value. Want to have an impact.6200:08:25.980 --> 00:08:30.330Terry Wildemann: Nice. Nice. Nice. Now do you find them or do they find you.6300:08:31.950 --> 00:08:32.460Robert: Both6400:08:35.400 --> 00:08:37.680Terry Wildemann: So what is that about you, Robert. That6500:08:37.680 --> 00:08:38.520Robert: attracts me6600:08:39.630 --> 00:08:40.140Terry Wildemann: Because6700:08:43.980 --> 00:08:54.960Robert: share my story. I still I can I, that's all I can say I share my story and I keep getting comments. Wow, how did you do that, how did you transition. How were you able to overcome these things.6800:08:55.380 --> 00:09:04.260Robert: Are you able to stay calm during this pandemic. You know, I just keep getting questions and they come to me when they come to me. Then I explained to them. And I just keep consistent with my message in6900:09:05.640 --> 00:09:17.640Terry Wildemann: Congratulations. Can you share. I know you've shared your story, is there a different message that you share or is there is your message and add on to sharing your story.7000:09:20.040 --> 00:09:24.660Robert: So as I mentioned, my story. My people closer to me I flipped the script.7100:09:25.260 --> 00:09:31.680Robert: I stopped sharing the story and I asked them to share their story indirectly, they don't even know what I'm doing. I asked them to share their story.7200:09:32.100 --> 00:09:38.490Robert: I turned the tables to them and turn them into them and they start speaking and as they start hearing them so speak, they realize okay7300:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.180Robert: There is actually something here. For instance, if I sit with someone7400:09:42.960 --> 00:09:48.210Robert: And I say, Hey, I'm a, I'm a creative, but I'm also account is like now I'm not creative and I do have a creative, one of my body.7500:09:48.630 --> 00:09:53.910Robert: And I flipped the script and I just let them tell their story like Okay, tell me about a time when you come alive when you really feel7600:09:54.420 --> 00:10:04.860Robert: Energetic and so yeah when I'm doing this when I have these ideas and by this of declarations, like, All right, well, maybe I'm creative. Tell me more. And then we take it from there.7700:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.980Terry Wildemann: So you are an advocate of asking open ended questions.7800:10:12.210 --> 00:10:12.840Robert: Absolutely.7900:10:14.040 --> 00:10:30.240Terry Wildemann: So I bet you really enroll folks when you're interacting with them, so can you please share with me one of the best clients that you not their name, but the experience of one of the best clients that you've ever had.8000:10:33.030 --> 00:10:36.870Robert: That's a very, very nice question not sharing names, like you said,8100:10:38.130 --> 00:10:46.680Robert: The best glide. I've had is someone very close to me. She is a singer and she has been a single all her life and8200:10:47.160 --> 00:10:53.010Robert: She just always had a limited belief that she was not a singer yesterday she would sing absolutely phenomenal.8300:10:53.400 --> 00:11:02.400Robert: And I took him under my wing and she she studied a bit of graphic design. So, you know, more on the creative side what very logical and sequential, etc.8400:11:03.030 --> 00:11:14.910Robert: Mexico under my wing. And I said, You need to blossom this gift that you have, you know, don't worry about people accept it or reject it. You need to do it for you first before you can serve others. And we worked. We worked on.8500:11:16.140 --> 00:11:16.680Robert: Building8600:11:17.730 --> 00:11:28.290Robert: A very holistic approach. So we built on setting up a business structure around her music and we're working on our finances personal finances motivation help contain to exercise and, you know, mindfulness8700:11:28.740 --> 00:11:41.070Robert: In the know she does have positive affirmations and she released her first single last year and in less than one week it hit the top 100 trending songs and apple on iTunes and8800:11:41.100 --> 00:11:44.610Robert: She's just dropped her album. So she was just the best client because we8900:11:44.880 --> 00:11:47.910Robert: We took our time and we had to get to all of stuff.9000:11:49.200 --> 00:11:50.400Terry Wildemann: Congratulations.9100:11:51.510 --> 00:12:03.810Terry Wildemann: I think that speaks volumes that speaks volumes. So is there anything else special that you would like to share with you awaken the possibilities audience.9200:12:05.850 --> 00:12:17.100Robert: Yes, we creativity is is not something you need to learn, it's very natural inside of you, creativity, something you want to learn, you know, think back to when your child.9300:12:17.370 --> 00:12:18.300Terry Wildemann: I'm going to read that.9400:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.840Terry Wildemann: Creativity is something you on learn9500:12:22.500 --> 00:12:23.790Terry Wildemann: Yeah, I like that.9600:12:24.600 --> 00:12:26.820Robert: Yeah, being creative is something online and9700:12:27.390 --> 00:12:38.490Robert: You, let's break down what creativity is it's not artistic expression only it extends beyond that, it extends into the scholarly spaces access to every aspect of our lives into the kitchen into play in9800:12:38.910 --> 00:12:49.920Robert: Everywhere because creativity simply connecting the dots putting as many dots as possible on the on the table and then trying to connect those dots and we have many dots in our lives. We have experiences we have failures. We have victories.9900:12:50.310 --> 00:12:58.560Robert: We have so many things. And if you look at the dots connected in your life in the lives of people around you. The society, you will come up with something10000:12:58.890 --> 00:13:12.630Robert: Magnificent. And that's what an entrepreneur does entrepreneurship simply sees things that others aren't seeing or perhaps aren't looking closely at. So the special thing is that you don't have to fight. You don't have to10100:13:13.860 --> 00:13:21.270Robert: Struggle to be creative, but the fight struggle is is to remove the barriers that stop you from being creative. Because your mind, your body10200:13:21.570 --> 00:13:32.520Robert: Everything on you is conspired free to be creative, everything around you. I mean, if you go to the science. They tell us that the primary blood relates creative relax, is you know bluejeans is called a blue10300:13:32.850 --> 00:13:41.850Robert: Is the color of the sky. So if you just type. What I you know everything around us already priming you to be creative. It's the way or not. Our brains are just meant to work.10400:13:43.560 --> 00:13:54.930Terry Wildemann: Okay, sounds so delicious. Just, I love that phrase to be creative, you need to unlearn it all. And it's really true.10500:13:57.270 --> 00:14:11.520Terry Wildemann: And I do believe that our environment ends up either squashing us or elevating us so it is about getting rid of all of that emotional baggage that we've learned from under the age of 10 specifically10600:14:12.630 --> 00:14:24.510Terry Wildemann: That held us back as adults. So congratulations and it's so delicious to hear of the kind of work that you're doing, especially in the accounting field because I've met a lot of very10700:14:27.780 --> 00:14:28.590Terry Wildemann: Stale10800:14:29.730 --> 00:14:33.210Terry Wildemann: Just, just account enter10900:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.130Robert: Nice. I was one of them. I was11000:14:37.650 --> 00:14:40.230Terry Wildemann: The I'm bringing it out so you11100:14:40.740 --> 00:14:43.110Terry Wildemann: Fail accountant. OK. Now we're getting juicy.11200:14:43.350 --> 00:14:48.180Terry Wildemann: How did you help out of being a stale accountant.11300:14:50.880 --> 00:14:54.420Robert: I every day I reflect on that just what what pushed me to do it.11400:14:55.470 --> 00:14:57.870Robert: And the conclusion I come to every time is that11500:14:58.260 --> 00:15:06.150Robert: I was convinced with my message I was convinced. Somehow, I have no idea how but I'm just convinced the ideas that I had11600:15:06.360 --> 00:15:16.890Robert: Actually had a value I picture myself speaking even or skill of speaking I picture myself raising my hand in the meeting, although in the meeting in the boardroom our silent. Like, like, like alarm.11700:15:17.370 --> 00:15:32.940Robert: But I just had the confidence. I had the confidence that my ideas are good and how it got to the point is that I started putting daily deposits in my mind. I started putting daily deposits in my mind I saw the deposit in, in my mind, and we neglect that a lot of the times, so11800:15:33.150 --> 00:15:33.810Terry Wildemann: I was really11900:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.040Terry Wildemann: Positive12000:15:35.700 --> 00:15:36.630The positive12100:15:38.700 --> 00:15:41.250Terry Wildemann: Daily negative deposits in our brains.12200:15:41.280 --> 00:15:49.290Robert: Very true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just started putting daily deposits in my life. I started listening to myself. I really started to listen.12300:15:49.680 --> 00:15:58.890Robert: To what I'm saying, you know, try to get away from the fear and anxiety in the you know the science tells us that when you're in a flight or fight mode.12400:15:59.430 --> 00:16:08.880Robert: You know, thinking logic takes a backseat. Right. And we focus our attention. And so I started to just be still, I started to center myself. I started to think12500:16:09.180 --> 00:16:16.020Robert: Spend time with myself to get rid of all the noise around me and I said you know what, this is a good idea. And even if it doesn't work.12600:16:16.470 --> 00:16:30.810Robert: I just need to get it out. I can't live with it staying inside of me anymore. And that's what I started to do. So I started to go out of it. Step out of my box I transition from accounting rules. I started, I went to sales actually went to sales customer fee. I went to the front line and12700:16:32.010 --> 00:16:38.520Robert: It was it was interesting and but I removed the pressure because I had prepared myself to realize that you know what12800:16:38.850 --> 00:16:42.690Robert: Everything in life is about connections. I don't need to worry about home. Same things12900:16:42.930 --> 00:16:50.460Robert: Or if I'm the most eloquent. I just need to make a connection with the person. So in sales. I just need to make a connection with the person. How do I connect them to whatever selling13000:16:50.910 --> 00:16:58.320Robert: Connected problem to solution. That's all I have to do and then their attention will move from me. So I started moving attention away from me message.13100:17:00.090 --> 00:17:09.390Terry Wildemann: That is brilliant and is really, really cool to go from a stale accountant to a creative sales accountant.13200:17:11.100 --> 00:17:11.700Terry Wildemann: Brilliant.13300:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.320Robert: You know, if you were to ask me, you know, the first step is always the hardest step.13400:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.450Robert: Do not want that first step, everything just has to open up13500:17:24.840 --> 00:17:35.460Robert: You have seen the science, you know, back to the science of what brings the reticulum activating system when you make that first step, your brain is going to go to work to look for all the signals that will help you to get in that direction.13600:17:35.730 --> 00:17:43.110Robert: So I started getting feedback from people I started getting comments, of course, there were moments of failure. Several lots of them. But I started getting13700:17:43.890 --> 00:17:50.970Robert: Lots of feedback I started seeing the expression in people's faces. And I think that's what's priceless. You can't quantify it.13800:17:51.300 --> 00:17:57.000Robert: You feel the connection because I was looking for the connection when I saw it, I was like, yes, even though I was a total failure.13900:17:57.270 --> 00:18:04.710Robert: I could see, even if I didn't get the sale or whatever it was, I could see the connection. And I realized creativity is on the board conviction is committed ideas that you have14000:18:05.070 --> 00:18:12.840Robert: Two problems that exist or two situations that are there. And, you know, everything just started to, you know, build up slowly but surely14100:18:13.650 --> 00:18:15.900Terry Wildemann: Sounds like you'd become a master of law of attraction.14200:18:17.910 --> 00:18:19.350Robert: I guess you can say that. Yeah.14300:18:19.410 --> 00:18:19.770Terry Wildemann: Yeah.14400:18:20.220 --> 00:18:21.000Robert: Very cool.14500:18:21.060 --> 00:18:31.860Terry Wildemann: Very, very cool. So Robert, do you have any last words that you would like to share with our awaken the possibilities audience before we wrap up the show.14600:18:37.290 --> 00:18:39.660Robert: My last words will be prioritize14700:18:42.660 --> 00:18:43.980Robert: Life don't14800:18:44.010 --> 00:18:47.400Terry Wildemann: get so focused repeat that again. Robert you froze. I'm sorry.14900:18:47.580 --> 00:18:49.980Terry Wildemann: Prioritize life. Oh.15000:18:51.720 --> 00:18:55.350Robert: It's creativity in your life, you need to make it a priority.15100:18:55.770 --> 00:18:59.250Terry Wildemann: And there are times creativity in our lives. Got it.15200:19:00.450 --> 00:19:00.930Robert: Yes.15300:19:01.200 --> 00:19:01.650Terry Wildemann: X and15400:19:02.040 --> 00:19:03.090Robert: The secret that the15500:19:03.120 --> 00:19:07.800Robert: Most successful people tell us early in the morning, you start your journey meditation.15600:19:08.220 --> 00:19:17.910Robert: You will have to get yourself in that mind space. So you have to prioritize creativity, make it. The first thing that you do so that your actions become a consequence of your thinking.15700:19:18.330 --> 00:19:24.660Robert: Don't spend all your time doing actions and then whatever is left over. Do your you're thinking, you have to first learn15800:19:25.050 --> 00:19:36.510Robert: To pause read think and then you add, you know, Abraham Lincoln said if you give me a task to cut down a tree you spend the first couple hours sharpening the axe and that is going to be15900:19:36.810 --> 00:19:49.020Robert: Mean take home for the weekend, the possibility audience here the listener who's listening or watching it make creativity, a party and you will blow the lid off like why16000:19:50.550 --> 00:19:56.310Robert: Look it up and you'll just get possibilities that will blow you away. Trust me.16100:19:57.060 --> 00:20:06.450Terry Wildemann: Well, thank you so much. Robert, for coming on the show your mindset, your energy. It's so positive and absolutely delightful. I really appreciate it.16200:20:06.750 --> 00:20:14.490Terry Wildemann: I love learning all about you and listening to your story and to the awaken the possibilities audience. Can you share where they can find you.16300:20:17.370 --> 00:20:32.790Robert: You can find me on LinkedIn and Robert Bell, etc. And then, Tim. I'm on other social media platforms, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, or you can check out my website WWW dot Robert E mail.com16400:20:33.300 --> 00:20:36.870Terry Wildemann: And Bella spelled be E double L. E. Correct.16500:20:37.200 --> 00:20:38.910Robert: Yes, absolutely correct. Yes.16600:20:39.210 --> 00:20:42.450Terry Wildemann: Okay, so I need to make sure we add me to add that L at the end.16700:20:42.870 --> 00:20:44.070Terry Wildemann: Yes, else16800:20:44.670 --> 00:20:45.030Robert: Yeah.16900:20:45.120 --> 00:20:45.990Terry Wildemann: Oh. Thank you, Robert.17000:20:46.530 --> 00:20:56.820Terry Wildemann: For being here and for my waking the possibilities audience. Thank you for being here this week. Remember to please drain our waking the possibilities Facebook group at17100:20:57.330 --> 00:21:09.360Terry Wildemann: A way of facebook.com forward slash awaken the possibilities. Also, you can download my stress management gift quick should zone.com and it's a simple very17200:21:09.840 --> 00:21:23.250Terry Wildemann: Simple four step gift to help you reduce stress in 60 to 90 seconds with practice. It's the tool that I use every single day to keep me grounded centered and focused and that's the quick17300:21:23.610 --> 00:21:41.970Terry Wildemann: Shift SH if T zone.com Q UI CK S H I T zone.com. This is your host Terry woman. And thank you so very much for being here and I look forward to seeing you next time, take care. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Robert Glazer is the bestselling author of Elevate: Push Beyond Your Limits and Unlock Success in Yourself and Others. He is also the CEO of Acceleration Partners, a 13 year old company that manages affiliate and partner marketing programs for a lot of well known brands such as Adidas, LinkedIn, Target, Instacart, and Hotwire.  Robert has around 260,000 LinkedIn newsletter subscribers, he has a 100% approval rating as a CEO on Glassdoor, he is ranked #2 on Glassdoor's list of Top CEO of Small & Medium Companies in the US, his company has a 4.9 out of 5 star rating as a place to work, and 99% of employees would recommend the company to a friend. He frequently contributes to Forbes, Inc. Magazine, Entrepreneur Magazine and Thrive Global and he is the host of the popular Elevate Podcast.    The team of 170 people at Acceleration Partners is 100% remote, and they have been since day one. So Robert knows the ins and outs of successfully leading a team that he doesn’t see in person every day. This is something that a lot of CEOs are having to learn on the fly now, as a large portion of organizations are moving to virtual during the pandemic.  How to create a culture for a remote workforce Robert shares that the key to having a successful remote team is by starting with the core values of the organization. Once you know your core values you can intentionally attract and hire the right people. Contrary to what happens in most organizations, Robert and his team understand that not every person will feel like the company is right for them.   A lot of organizations try to be the best place to work for everyone. But just as not everyone will like the same food, or the same music--not everyone is going to be a good fit for your company, and that is okay. As organizations we need to learn to embrace that fact. We need to be open and honest with potential hires about what it is really like to work inside the organization. It is not effective to sugar coat what their experience might be.  Robert says staying consistent in your core values is very important for building that culture. Inside of Acceleration Partners they reward and punish based on the company values, which are Own It, Embrace Relationships, and Excel & Improve. Those are the values that they consistently talk about and support. There is no question about what the company stands for and what they look for in their employees.  For people who feel that it is a good fit, the company has a lot of tools and resources that they utilize to help everyone feel connected. Employees use Slack to communicate, they have frequent video calls, they have regional in person meetups, and they have a company wide in person AP Summit at the end of each year.  But ultimately it is the people who create the culture. So having those core values set up from the beginning and using those for attracting and hiring is critical.  Four ways to elevate yourself In his book, Robert lays out four elements that go into bettering yourself. They are: Spiritual-- this is not religious, it is about knowing who you are and what you stand for. What do you want the most and what are the standards you live by each day. You need to know where you are going.  Intellectual-- This is how you get to where you are going. You need to have long term and short term goals. You have to establish routines and healthy habits.  Physical--If you don’t take care of yourself physically you will be too tired and unfocused to get things done. Eat healthy, exercise, take care of your body.  Emotional-- This is how you react to challenging situations and it affects the quality of your relationships  All of the individual elements impact each other. If you don’t take care of yourself physically you feel tired and sick. If you feel sick and tired you are more likely to be impatient with people around you, you can’t focus on your goals, you don’t stick to morning routines, etc...You have to have all of these elements balanced in order to effectively elevate yourself.  Robert has used these four elements to build the training for employees inside his company. He says, “We've always believed in investing in people holistically, like what are the things that we can train them on-- about health productivity, time management, leadership-- where they get better at work, but they also get better outside of work? They're better parents, they're better spouses, they're better children, brothers and sisters. Now is sort of the real breakthrough, what we’re seeing is 80% of our people, in leadership, have really grown up from within. We were able to get our people to keep growing with us because we were investing and building their capacity. So a lot of our training actually even revolves around this as part of that thing I mentioned before I take a bunch of leaders off and I work with them on their personal core values, I don't think you can be a good leader if you aren't clear what you value and you can communicate that, f you don't know how to set goals, if you don't know all these other things like these affect your performance overall.” How leaders can encourage others to build these capacities for themselves Leaders need to support their team holistically. As Robert shared, when employees are happy, healthy, engaged, and thriving outside of work they are going to show up to work ready to go.   Encourage employees to start book clubs or workout challenges. Provide access to learning platforms. Offer training on how to set goals or create healthy habits. Be sure to lead by example and work on these four elements in your own life as well.

美国的历史纵然不长，自1814年12月至今，整个国家的历史200多年。但美国崛起速度之快，令人咂舌。今天我们来说一说美国的国旗。美国的国旗，简称星条旗。由红、白、蓝三色组成；画面格局由两部分组成，旗的左上方蓝底上排列着50颗白色的星，旗的其余部分是13道红白相间的条子，有7道红色横条以及6道白色横条。星条旗是怎么来的？接下来，我们一边学习英语，一边了解历史。美国的国旗并非一成不变，1777年6月14日， 第一面国旗只有13颗星，代表13个州；1817年12月，星星由13颗变成 22颗；1960年7月4日，才有了我们现在看到的 50颗星版本的星条旗。但是你知道吗？我们现在看到的有50颗星星的星条旗，竟然出自一名高中生之手。这名高中生名叫罗伯特·赫夫特（Robert Heft）他设计国旗这件事情得从一次作业说起：关键词汇：open-ended assignment开放式作业Robert's history teacher gave his students an open-ended assignment.罗伯特的历史老师给他的学生布置了一个开放式作业。这个开放式作业的要求是什么呢？只要能体现自己对美国历史的兴趣就好了，任何作业都可以。关键词汇：Illustrate someone's interest in sth.展现/体现在某方面的兴趣Make a project illustrating your interest in American history, it could be anything.完成一个能展现你对美国历史的兴趣的课题，它可以是任何东西。这个课题确实够开放，于是罗伯特想到了一个好主意。当时是1958年，美国当时拥有48个州，但是当时也一直传言阿拉斯加和夏威夷也即将成为美国的两个州。关键词汇：Jazzed的意思是很兴奋 be jazzed about就是对。。。感到兴奋的意思So Robert, who was jazzed about hearing that Alaska and Hawaii were going to become States.罗伯特听说阿拉斯加和夏威夷将成为美国的两个州。于是他便设计了一面有50颗星星的星条旗。但是当他递交自己的作业并告知老师他的想法时，老师只给他了B-，理由是：做星条旗并不是件高难度的事情，而且你给的星星的数目也不对，不符合当时的情况。呵呵，这位老师确实够严谨，但缺乏想象力。他当时还说：只要国会认你这面国旗，我就修改你的成绩。这位老师以玩笑的方式回复了罗伯特，可让他想不到的是：这孩子当真了！之后，他给白宫打了18次电话，写了21封信！在这份作业得了B-之后的两年，也就是1960年，他终于等到了来自白宫的电话，这个电话不是别人打的，而是当时的美国总统President Eisenhower(艾森豪威尔总统),他告诉罗伯特，他设计的50颗星的国旗已经被选为美国的官方新国旗！不仅如此，总统还邀请罗伯特在1960年7月4日前往华盛顿，看他设计的美国国旗第一次升起！而罗伯特的历史老师，最终也遵守承诺，将他的B-成绩修改成了A.所以，有的时候，千万不要小看年轻人的想象力和行动力，因为他可能不小心就有能力在历史上留下自己的足迹。

Hi everyone, and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the We Make Books Podcast - A podcast about writing, publishing, and everything in between! This week is a double header and it’s all about accolades!  First we take a question from one of our Patreon subscribers and talk about starred reviews. What are they, how do you get them, and why is that star such a big deal?  Then it’s on to our second topic: Awards!  They’re pretty awesome if you can get one, but how do you qualify for one and exactly how important to your career are these?  Just keep in mind here, the word of the week is “Subjective”. We Make Books is hosted by Rekka Jay and Kaelyn Considine; Rekka is a published author and Kaelyn is an editor and together they are going to take you through what goes into getting a book out of your head, on to paper, in to the hands of a publisher, and finally on to book store shelves. We Make Books is a podcast for writers and publishers, by writers and publishers and we want to hear from our listeners! Hit us up on our social media, linked below, and send us your questions, comments, concerns, the award you most wish you could win during your life, real or imagined! We hope you enjoy We Make Books! Twitter: @WMBCast  |  @KindofKaelyn  |  @BittyBittyZap Instagram: @WMBCast  Patreon.com/WMBCast   Rekka (00:00): So welcome back to another episode of we make books, a podcast about writing, publishing and everything in between. And then sometimes you publish your book and you want people to look at it and you have to figure out how to get them to look at it. And so sometimes it's after the publishing, so sometimes beyond. Kaelyn (00:17): Yeah. So, um, I'm Kaelyn, I'm the acquisitions editor for Parvus Press. Rekka (00:22): I'm Rekka and I'm fired. And I write science fiction and fantasy is RJ theater. Kaelyn (00:28): I'm Kaelyn and I want to go to bed. Rekka (00:30): Yeah, we've been doing this all day. We're backing up some episodes because we both have some travel coming up and we weren't sure when we get together again. So we have gotten to the point of being entirely punchy where, um, luckily this, this clip for the beginning is the last bit we're recording for today. Kaelyn (00:47): But yeah. Um, so this episode, uh, actually came to us from one of our, uh, question from one of our Patreon users, um, who was asking about starred reviews. And that kind of then also segwayed into other things that are given out to especially awesome books, which was awards as we're kind of approaching awards season. Uh, so this, this is a little bit of a split episode. We're gonna talk about starred reviews and industry reviews and then we're gonna talk about awards, Rekka (01:14): But we chose them to fill in the same episode because they are somewhat related in that, you know, you are being, you know, critically reviewed and um, and judged by an outside party who is considered an authority of some sort, whether that's a voting committee, a voting, um, membership or a reviewer for a publication that deals solely with, you know, reviewing books and stuff. Kaelyn (01:40): Exactly. So, um, you know, this is just kind of, I won't say a lot of insider knowledge, but just like a little explanation about some things that are going on behind all of this. Um, you know, in terms of the book reviews, uh, you know, trade publications and who's reviewing these and with the awards, um, we specifically talk about a couple that are relevant to our genre. Rekka (02:06): Our genra specifically. Kaelyn (02:06): Yes. Um, and you know what you have to do to qualify for some of these and what you have to do to be a voting member. So, um, anyway, uh, take a listen as always, we hope you enjoy. And as always, if you have questions, send them to us. Rekka (02:19): Absolutely. We love to answer listener questions because we want to know what gaps we haven't filled in yet. Um, sometimes we look into - Kaelyn (02:26): We may do a whole episode about it. Rekka (02:28): Yeah, we do. Yeah. But sometimes we look at each other and we're like, so what are we talking about this time? And like, you know what, we don't have to decide cause someone asked us a question. So here we go. So we appreciate questions and comments and interaction online. It's, it's all great and we, we really do love it. So thank you for that. And um, in our, to express our thanks. Here's an episode, Kaelyn (03:03): Just jotting stuff down. Rekka (03:03): Keep that in mind, folks. She always takes notes and she never forgets. Kaelyn (03:10): Oh, that's why I write stuff down, written down somewhere. Rekka (03:13): It's not that she hasn't forgotten, but she's going to uncover that note someday and realize that's the thing that you said. So watch what you say. Kaelyn (03:19): Yeah. I, um, something I don't think I've ever brought up on this. I spent three years in college as like the senior student archivist for my university. So I'm very into records Rekka (03:33): Archives are her jam. Kaelyn (03:36): Archives are awesome. They're, you know, they're fun, they're full, full, great stuff. Uh, speaking of things full of great stuff. Rekka (03:42): Hey, I like that segue. It's not a segue if you call attention to it. I've, I've come to understand, Kaelyn (03:47): Oh, that just seems like it's, yeah, that's unfair. Rekka (03:49): That's, yeah, that's not fair. I want to be able to recognize this. That's why you get a gong. So you don't actually say, Hey, nice segue. You just, it just rang a little. Kaelyn (03:57): . Is there like a noise we can insert, you know, to indicate that there's a segue. Okay. Rekka (04:03): You can come up with, we'll do a nice like page flip like, okay. Um, so today's episode topics starts with a question suggested by one of our patrons on patreon.com/WMBcast and Robert D McAdams who says we do not have to give him credit for the question, but we just did anyway. Asks what is a starred review? So we've touched on this in passing in a previous episode, which I'm sure Robert heard, um, when we talked about reviews in general, but a starred review is a very specific term. These are not reviews that come with star ratings like you might find on Amazon. Like, yes, there are stars, but that's not what we're talking about. So what is Kaelyn? A starred review? Kaelyn (04:48): Well, so before we get into that, um, and as Rekka said, we talked about this in the episode, we did all about reviews. Uh, the difference between, you know, reader reviews on good reads and Amazon and industry reviews. Industry reviews are professional trade publications, or you might hear them called the traits and they are exactly what they sound like. People send advanced copies of books to them before publication and there are people there that read them and write a few hundred words on them. Three to maybe 400. This is that - Rekka (05:20): If that. Kaelyn (05:21): Yeah, this is not, this is not going to be a long multiple page insightful exploration of this book Rekka (05:27): Cause they know let's be real. All you wanted was the star review. Kaelyn (05:33): Um, no, but even just general positive review. So there are four major trade publications. I'll start with the most, you know, coveted one publisher's weekly. A publisher's weekly is almost 150 years old. Um, they've been around for a very long time. It's a magazine that you can subscribe to or you can actually pick up on new stands in New York city. Rekka (05:56): Wow. Really? Kaelyn (05:57): Yeah, well publishers weekly is in New York city there. Um - Rekka (05:59): So they distribute locally. Kaelyn (06:01): Yup. So you can actually go to newsstands in New York city and pick up publishers weekly. Rekka (06:05): I have never tried to do that. Kaelyn (06:07): You can have it mailed to you or you can get it online. Of course there's online subscriptions. Every issue, they review a couple of hundred books, um, that are coming out. And if there is a book that they particularly like, um, it is exemplary, uh, they want to denote this book of being as particularly high quality, uh, either in writing or story or what the book accomplishes if someone there, you know, and the process when, how this happens is a little, no one's really quite sure. But anyway, yeah. Rekka (06:45): It's behind a curtain. Kaelyn (06:45): Um, they'll give it a star and that is just, it's a stamp that says we think this book is excellent. How many books do you think every year get a starred review from publishers weekly? What would you say? Rekka (06:59): Is it, is it guaranteed to be one per issue or a certain number per issue? Kaelyn (07:03): There's no guarantee for anything. Rekka (07:04): So there may be an issue where they don't start one at all. Kaelyn (07:07): Correct. They are in no way, shape or form obligated to give out a star. You only earn it on merit. Rekka (07:12): So the idea being this is, you did say coveted, but we're talking extremely coveted and they know you want it. Kaelyn (07:17): Yes. So how many do you think approximately they start in a year? Rekka (07:22): I'm gonna say - Kaelyn (07:23): Keep in mind. They will review thousands and thousands of books. Rekka (07:26): 100? Kaelyn (07:26): About 200. Rekka (07:27): Yeah. Okay. Kaelyn (07:28): Um, you know, sometimes it's a little more, sometimes it's a little less, but that's what they're, they're averaging. Rekka (07:33): See, I lowered it because I'm assuming that all these readers are just freaking sick of books. Kaelyn (07:39): Um, so publishers weekly, uh, Kirkus is kind of the, um, most close competitor of, uh, of publishers weekly. Here's the big difference between them. Uh, publisher's weekly also has like some industry gossip and some forecast kind of things in it. Kirkus is no gossip. It's a very straight forward, you know, here's the book. Here's the reveal. I'm a starred review from Kirkus is also still fantastic. Rekka (08:03): Yup. Kaelyn (08:04): Um, library journal is by the same sister, uh, company as publisher weekly. Uh, library journal, however, as its name implies, is focused more towards libraries. Um, if you're wondering, well why is that different? It's because they're looking at this more from the educational side of the book. Do you think this is a valuable thing that we want to buy? Will people be asking for it? Um, finally there's Booklist a Booklist is perhaps the most kind of all of these. Um, from, you know, things I've read and heard editors and writers at Booklist are encouraged to find something nice to nice to say about the book publishers weekly and Kirk is hold no such compunction. Rekka (08:49): Yes. In fact, sometimes it feels as though they really enjoy taking people to task for things they don't enjoy. Kaelyn (08:56): Yes. Um, library journal tends to be a little more academic and a little more thumbs up, thumbs down. Rekka (09:02): Objective. Kaelyn (09:03): Yeah. This is good for this. It is not good for, this would not recommend for X, Y and Z recommend for, yeah. You know what, they're gonna give you both sides. Rekka (09:10): Like watch out for this, but you might enjoy it if you like this. Kaelyn (09:13): Getting a star in publisher's weekly and Kirkus is a big fucking deal. Rekka (09:19): Um, so it's almost predictive of how your book is going to succeed or not, but not accurately predictive. Let's just say across the board. If you don't get a starred review or you don't get a review at all, it does not mean that your book will not do well. But people do pay attention to which reviews are starred. And at the same time, if they are willing to give it a star, it's because they're not afraid to stick their neck out about how much they like your book. Kaelyn (09:26): Yep. So now you're probably wondering, well, who are these, these kingmakers who are the gods sitting on top of the mountain that, um, decide these things? Um, the answer is a little bit of everyone. Um, there's going to be, you know, published authors, um, editors, school teachers, librarians, people that are involved in this, so hadn't, and you may be going like, okay, well what makes them qualified to do this? A lot of times the reviewers are broken up by subject, by genre, by category, and have some kind of expertise in that area. It could be anything from, I've read extensively about this particular thing and you have to keep in mind, I know we talk about genre fiction a lot on this show. They're reviewing everything, you know, biographies. Rekka (10:30): I'm just about to point that out. Kaelyn (10:31): Yeah, true crime, Rekka (10:32): Everything. Historical fiction, historical documentation style. Kaelyn (10:37): Um, there are viewing everything. So maybe your history teacher, well then you get to read, um, you know, the latest biography of James Madison. Uh, maybe you were in the military, so you get to read the most recent military fiction that you know, comes out. Rekka (10:53): So what you're saying is they're not just sending these out to anyone randomly and haphazardly. Kaelyn (10:58): They're focused with who receives these that said, look, reviews are subjective. You know, it's, um, and again, is there a system of checks and balances? Maybe? Probably. Hopefully. Rekka (11:08): Hopefully. Kaelyn (11:13): You know, I think a lot of people think like, Oh, it's just, you know, college students and whatever. It's really not. They're pretty from everything, you know, I understand they're, they're pretty good about matching the books to the readers, making sure that the people that read these are people that are actually gonna enjoy that kind of book. Now, um, one thing that I will explain, I'm gonna use publisher's weekly as the example for this because they are kind of the, uh, the gold standard here, if you will. Um, so you might be thinking like, well, I have a book that I'm self publishing. Can I just send it over to get a review? Uh, you can't. Um, the reason for this is an - Rekka (11:45): It is gatekeeping. Kaelyn (11:47): It is gatekeeping. Yeah. You need to have the book be distributed. So even if you are with a publisher that only does eBooks, they're still not going to look at it. The book needs to be distributed through a traditional distributor. Rekka (12:02): If your indie publisher only does print on demand through KTP or IngramSpark, which is not like traditional distribution, they're not going to look at it. Kaelyn (12:14): Um, also, and this is where I'm, I start to get a little, uh, Rekka (12:19): Hot under the collar. Kaelyn (12:20): Get my feathers ruffled a little bit is when you go to the, um, the submissions guidelines pages on these, they'll give you a whole list of like, things they want to know. You know, a lot of it is things that you should obviously include, like release date information about the - Rekka (12:36): Targeted audience. Kaelyn (12:37): Targeted audience, that kind of important stuff. They'll also want to know how much are you spending on the marketing campaign? And for those of you who just jumped up out of your seat and went, are you kidding me? No, I'm not. Um, there is absolutely inside circles within this. If you don't think that Amazon and Barnes and noble pay publishers weekly for certain things, you're out of your mind. They do. Um, if you don't think that major publishing houses do things to guarantee eyes on copies of this, they do. Now, can they guarantee a favorable review? Absolutely not. Rekka (13:20): Nope. Kaelyn (13:20): Believe me, they have, you know, I'm sure you can probably find websites that just collect, you know, quote unquote - Rekka (13:27): Devastating reviews. Kaelyn (13:29): You know, and I mean, I've, I've seen some of them. There's definitely, you know, people have written some truly scathing things. Rekka (13:35): Yes. I meant devastating. Kaelyn (13:58): Yeah. About, about people's books. Um, so the other thing to keep in mind is a lot of people that do this are paid kind of on a per review basis. They're definitely, you know, full time staff there and everything. But when you have this many books come in, you don't have that many people sitting in an office just reading these. Um, they get sent out to reviewers who aren't necessarily at the office, read them in their time and then turn in the review. Rekka (14:05): So the people are getting paid on a per view basis, which means they're motivated to read fast and submit as many as possible. Kaelyn (14:13): Do not think that even if you had a thousand people sitting in a room whose only job was to care with, to read every book that came in, they would not get through the pile they receive. They don't have time to read every single word very carefully. Um, so it's, you know, it's, it's a good group of people who truly enjoy what they're doing because they're not making a fortune off of this. Rekka (14:37): Right. Um, but, but they do make more if they get through more books and review more. Kaelyn (14:41): Yeah, exactly. So, um, what, you know is a starred review important, important is not the right word. Nice is a good word. Rekka (14:49): Um, is there a benefit to receiving a starred review? Kaelyn (14:54): Absolutely, it's going to get more attention. Um, it will, you know, it will make other, uh, publications and people within the industry set up and pay attention to it. You're a publisher and you get to go online and talk about how you got to start review. Rekka (15:10): Yup. Other, it's more content you can tweet. Kaelyn (15:12): Other outlets will specifically pay attention to it. Rekka (15:15): Is it the end of the world if you don't get one. Kaelyn (15:17): Absolutely not because most books don't. Rekka (15:19): Right. Kaelyn (15:19): 90 something percent of them do not. Um, then there are books that I have personally read that got starred reviews and I was like, why? Really? Okay. And it's not that they were bad, it was just that, you know, and, but that could just be that whoever it wasn't reviewing it was particularly enjoyed. Rekka (15:40): Interested in that one. Kaelyn (15:40): Yeah. Rekka (15:41): I mean it is, no matter what you try to do at the end of the day, it is subjective. Kaelyn (15:45): It is subjective. Um, a starred review is you did an extra good job. Rekka (15:51): We really, really are excited that you're releasing this into the world. So can, if you get a, a positive review but it's not starred, it's still real helpful. You can still tweet that content. You can still add that blurb to your, if there's a usable blurb in it, you can still add that to your um copy. Kaelyn (16:10): Anytime somebody reviews your book and publishes it, that review is yours. Now you can quote it, you can put it on the book. You can do, you know, that is them offering that into the world for you to use. Rekka (16:22): Yeah. Kaelyn (16:22): Um, so if you have a pog- you know, you'll see a lot of books you pick up that say, uh, you know, an astounding tour de force author, you know, completely redefines the genre or whatever and it'll just say such and such publisher's weekly. Rekka (16:39): Yup. Kaelyn (16:39): And that's, you know, that's a great thing to have if you have a review and it's not starred, but it's still good review. That's great. Most authors do not or never will have a starred review. It's like winning an Oscar, you know. Rekka (16:55): And by its rarity makes it more valuable, exactly why they are going to be invested in not giving them out to everybody, which means the difference between this and an Oscar is they don't have to give out one of these. Kaelyn (17:07): Right. Rekka (17:08): And the 200 that you mentioned are across all genre. So how many books are coming out in your specific genre each year or each, you know, yes. A year. How many books are coming out in your specific genre each year is they're only going to get a slice of those and those aren't promised to be distributed evenly across the genre. It might be a big year for biographies and you're just out of luck. Kaelyn (17:28): Yup. Yeah. So, um, start reviews are great if you get one. They are by no stretch of the imagination, the end of the world if you don't. So, you know, before we wrap that up, um, I was talking a lot about publishers weekly and I mentioned Kirkus as kind of being, you know, the counterpart to publisher's weekly. Just a couple, you know, things to clarify real quick. Um, about Kirkus and a few things that are unique about them. Um, as I'd mentioned, a, uh, publisher's weekly and library journal are a sister publications. They're both owned by Reed business organization, which puts out a whole bunch of different trade magazines. Like they put a variety. Rekka (18:11): Okay. Kaelyn (18:11): Too for instance. Rekka (18:11): Yeah. Kaelyn (18:23): Um, these are glossy magazine type things. They're going to have pictures of the cover and you know, the thing in nice font and everything Kirkus is not glossy. It's like newspaper reprint paper. There's no pictures. It's black and white and it's just the title, the author, the review. Yeah. Here's the thing about Kirkus. Um, it costs money to get them to review your book. It's over $400. Why? Because Kirkus is kind of considering themselves a cut above. Uh, they really try to be objective, I guess, which I'm not sure how that works when you're asking for money. Rekka (18:52): Yeah. Kaelyn (18:53): Well, like I had mentioned, you know, like publisher's weekly has like, you know, they do some like industry gossip and that kinds of Kirkus it doesn't do that. It's very - Rekka (19:00): Right, they're trying to leave out everything, but the, what they think you are, you want out of their publication, they have a format that the reviews follow. That's pretty consistent so that you know what you're getting when you ask for a review. Just you don't know what they're going to think of it. Kaelyn (19:17): Yeah. So here's a, just an, another little thing about Kirkus. Kirkus had a controversial couple of years ago. Uh, they took back a star on a book. Rekka (19:29): Yup. Kaelyn (19:30): Um, I won't mention the book exactly. Um, they - Rekka (19:35): It's easy to find. Kaelyn (19:36): It's very easy to find. Yeah. They gave it a starred review and then there, I mean - Rekka (19:42): There was a backlash. Kaelyn (19:43): There was backlash. Um, it was social backlash and Kirkus maybe not being as sensitive towards some things as they should have and they took it back. To my knowledge, that's the only time that's ever happened. Rekka (19:57): Yeah. It's the only one mentioned on the Wikipedia page about Kirkus. So, um, hopefully it doesn't happen again. Maybe it's taught them to be more careful so that it doesn't have to happen. Kaelyn (20:06): I mean, across trade publications in general. To my knowledge, and I did look for this. I could not find another instance of that ever happening. Rekka (20:14): Okay. Kaelyn (20:15): Um, if, if you know of one, let us know. Rekka (20:18): @WMBcast on Twitter and Instagram and yeah. Um, yeah, the, I cannot imagine what it felt like to be an author who believed they received a star review and then had it rescinded because it was determined that their book made them a bad human. Yeah. Um, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the decision because I really don't, I don't know the book, but as an author, I cannot imagine how heartbreaking that must be. Yeah. So hopefully everyone's learned their lesson and this won't have to happen again, but it probably will in this day and age, honestly. Kaelyn (20:52): Yeah. Um, to be honest with you, I'm surprised it took that long for it to happen. Um, this was two years ago, I think, 2017 that this happened. Um, and it was, you know, it was big news when it happened. Rekka (21:06): Um, so if you bring it up, I'm sure you could get people heated up over even now. Kaelyn (21:09): Oh God. So don't. Rekka (21:10): Don't do that. Don't do it. Um, but we only bring it up because it does show that there is historical precedent for a star being removed, removed after someone quote unquote earned it. Kaelyn (21:20): Yeah. So that it just kinda goes to show that, you know, like, yes, review magazines are supposed to kind of be the authority, the authority, and they are supposed to have the ability to review at their discretion, but sometimes they do have to take other things into consideration after they've already done that. Rekka (21:41): Yep. Kaelyn (21:41): Um, so anyway, start reviews. Um, they're, they're great if you can get them. If not, it is in no way, shape or form the end of the world or your writing career in that order. Rekka (21:53): But that is what I started review is to answer your question, Robert, that's, um, that's what they are. That's how they're different from the, uh, reader reviews and maybe peer reviews that you might get from other authors. Um, or even, you know, just great blurbs from other people who might be, you know, like if you're writing a science fiction story like the Martian and an astronaut gave you a review and astronaut can give you an excellent review and it might look great on your cover, but it does not qualify as a starred review. Kaelyn (22:21): Yup. So, um, there you go. Yeah. Rekka (22:24): And Kaelyn can, can I have an astronaut reviewing my book? Kaelyn (22:27): Absolutely. Rekka (22:28): Let's get one get that arranged would ya please? Awesome. So something else, let's just speaking of accolades, accolades and uh, pinning your dreams to receiving one. Yes, it's award season as we record this. Meaning there are a lot of authors out there, very hopeful that their book might gain notice and end up shortlisted for a literary award within there's genre. Kaelyn (22:56): I'm going to qualify all of this by saying I am going to do everything I can to be positive Rekka (23:04): Hold back feelings. Kaelyn (23:04): Be positive. New Speaker (23:07): Kaelyn has some feelings about awards. Kaelyn (23:08): Well, here's the thing. They're great. It really is like wonderful. Rekka (23:13): As you were just saying it's fantastic if you get one. Kaelyn (23:16): Yes. Rekka (23:16): It is not the end of your career or a reflection of you as a human being or writer if you don't. Kaelyn (23:23): Yeah. So let's, uh, let's real quick talk about some awards now. We, you know, as we say frequently on this, uh, we, we both work in genre fiction, um, specifically science fiction and fantasy. Um, that said there are a lot of awards out there that can range to something small and local to the Nobel prize in literature, which I don't think they give out for just one book. You've got to have a pretty stellar career Rekka (23:51): Yeah. That's, that's more lifetime achievement award than a specific project. Um, unlike the Nobel prize for science where you might get it for one project and project for, if you're going to be a writer, you're not going to cure cancer with one book. Kaelyn (24:07): I don't think that's humanly possible unless it's a book on how to cure cancer. Rekka (24:13): Well, maybe you never can tell. Um, there's a lot of money in pharmaceuticals to treating people with cancer. You know, there's, there are some players behind those curtains moving against you. But, um, yeah, so the, the awards we're talking about are the annual awards that review much like tax seasons, the years prior activity in that genre, and someone needs to nominate you and enough people need to nominate you to put you toward the top of the list, which then is skimmed very, very much just the top of that list gets put on the ballot. Kaelyn (24:52): Yeah, there's usually. Well, it's like any award thing, you know, there's going to be five, maybe six choices in a category. Um, so typically what you'll find in, uh, industry, and this is, I'm, I'm fairly sure this is true across genres. There's association, there's guilds, there's, um, you know, groups that award these things. You have to be a member to vote in them. Rekka (25:17): But not a member usually to be nominated. Kaelyn (25:20): No. Um, because a lot of times to qualify for membership for these things, you might not be at that stage in your career yet. Um, but they, not all of them are just open to the general public. Some of them are the Hugo's - Rekka (25:33): The Hugo's are open to the general public . Kaelyn (25:34): - are open to the general public, um, the nebulas are not. Um, so just real quick, uh, we're talking specifically about the nebulas which are given out by the, uh, by SFWA, the science fiction and fantasy writers of America. So that is, um, American and therefore fairly English speaking centric. Uh, the Hugo's are also pretty English-speaking. Rekka (25:53): Yes. Though that is a global, but it is a global organization. The conference itself pops about the world each year. Um, and we say it's open to the public. You do have to pay to become a member for the year in which you want to vote. But there is no qualification like royalties or book sales or anything like that like there is with SFWA. Kaelyn (26:14): Yup. So SFWA is more of a professional organization because they are the science fiction and fantasy writers of America. Um, they are ma, they are very much geared towards like if anyone listening has ever gone to the nebulous conference. Um, a lot of the panels and discussions are career oriented. Um, the Hugo's are a little bit more readership oriented. Um, so that's, you know, that's just a, that's just a difference in a distinguishing point there. Uh, that said, you're going to see a lot of the people nominated across both of them. Rekka (26:45): Yes. The list will look very familiar across them because the people who are nominating tend to be members of more than just one. Yeah. It's like also they let's, you know, get right down to where we're going with this. The books are stand out in their category before they're nominated. Kaelyn (27:04): Yeah. It's kind of like the Oscars and the golden Globes and stuff. You know, the good stuff is the good stuff that's going to be already know what's going up there before anyone else finishes the year out with their own stuff. Now there's of course, all kinds of literary awards given out. There's awards that are specifically, you know, for children's books. Uh, there's awards for every genre and group is going to have their own awards that they give out. Um, you can go find lists of these online if it's something that you're interested in. Here is where, um, I get a little cynical with these things. Uh, one is that again, sometimes these can be hard to get nominated for if you're not traditionally published. Rekka (27:40): Right. Kaelyn (27:54): Um, this is, you know, I won't beat around the Bush here. This isn't a secret. You can go online and find out this kind of stuff easily. If you're self published, you're going to have a really hard time being taken seriously in some of these communities. It's getting better, but it's still not quite to where it, I personally think it should. Rekka (27:59): Right. Just like your family likes to hold your holiday traditions in a certain way, people do not like to let go of what they're comfortable with. And a lot of these associations were going back to their beginnings, traditionally published authors, and they saw no reason to change it yet. Kaelyn (28:18): So that's very, so like for instance, with SFWA it can be very hard to get into SFWA because you have to either have a job relevant to the industry and be recommended by a certain number of people. They need to actually write you a letter of recommendation to be admitted. Or to qualify as an author, you have to have a certain number of words published and have made a certain amount off of them in a year. Rekka (28:46): Yup. Single calendar year. Kaelyn (28:50): In a single calendar year. Um, it's not an absurdly difficult to reach some of money. Rekka (28:56): It's not impossible. And if your book takes off, even just moderately successful, you probably going to get there. Kaelyn (29:02): But if you're not a fulltime self-publishing author, it's hard. Yeah, you can go look up all the SFWA qualification stuff, but in their defense, it is a professional organization. Their goal is not when you're not here to have members that are trying to become authors. We are an established group of authors and writers already, right. Rekka (29:26): Unlike the RWA, which has gone through its own, um, metamorphosis this year, which you can find out about elsewhere if you haven't already. But, um, they have traditionally invited in aspiring authors as well as published authors. Kaelyn (29:41): Now, all of this that I'm saying about SFWA, SFWA is a fantastic organization. Um, they are an excellent resource for, you know, even if you're not a published author and you're trying to - Rekka (29:53): You're welcome to come to the nebulas whether or not you remember anyone can, can show up. Kaelyn (29:58): Um, they have a lot of good resources that, and people that they can put you in touch with. Um, they have a really good legal team that helps people with various, you know, issues that they may come up against. Rekka (30:11): Yup. There's a, a service just called a writer beware, which alerts people in a single location where, um, they can find out like, Hey, you want to watch out for this company? They have bad practices. You, you know, their contracts are gotchas and all this kind of stuff and, and you can look out for that stuff. Kaelyn (30:51): Um, whether or not you're a member, that's, that's all public information on their website. So they have a lot of great resources for people and, um, they have become sort of a, you know, a beacon to which science fiction and fantasy writers will flock. Yeah. And they're, um, they're, I know a lot of people in it. They're very nice people. Um, you know, that said, just be aware that if you are self published, it's - Rekka (30:59): It's more challenging. It's more challenging to gain entry to gain entry into find yourself particularly welcomed there. Um, and it's even more challenging to get nominated for something there. Um, the Hugo's, I would even say it's also very challenging with that. So back to, you know, so back to the awards, the things you're, you know, it's, think of the typical kind of awards you're going to get. Best short fiction, best novel, best novella, novelette, um, best, all of the various writings. Kaelyn (31:27): Now, um, game writers are starting to get more recognition. So there's a game writing award. There are sort of lifetime achievements, uh, service awards, things like that. Rekka (31:37): And then you, you have the big one, which is, you know, best novel, a novel of the year. Kaelyn (31:41): That's the best picture standing, whatever. Rekka (31:44): Um, there are career marker ones. Like, um, the beginning of a career is the outstanding award for science fiction. Um, from the Hugo, um, awards. You know, the process of getting nominated. It's, it's really like, it's exactly the way you'd get nominated for most things. You submit, there's going to be a short list that comes out within that short list. The list will be shortened further and those will be the finalists. Kaelyn (32:10): Yeah. So, um, that's another thing that it's like, it's a great feather in your cap if you have it. Most people will go through their lives without having one, one of these. And that does not mean they had to not have a successful writing career. Rekka (32:40): Right. You're going to get a temporary uptick from winning these awards. It is not going to be career lasting. Now, if you somehow manage to sweep these awards and keep getting them year after year, then that's great. But then, I mean, then people are going to start rooting against you to see you and seated by some new up and comer because you know, you've been boring them by being the predictable winner every year. Kaelyn (32:45): Um, so, you know, that's just a little about awards. It's, you know, we were kind of like, okay, well we had a question about starred reviews in the industry. I don't think we could do a full episode of that. And we were like, you know, what's also a nice thing to have but not a full episodes worth is you know, industry awards. Rekka (32:57): Um, you know, the fact is that your book for an award like that needs to have hype before it gets nominated. So the nomination is not going to hype your book because your book has already hyped people nominated because they already know about it and have already read it. So it's not like each nomination is um, you know, guaranteed new reader or anything like that on the level. Kaelyn (33:20): It's very difficult to get nominated for one of these. You could have written and outstanding book. I know someone who got a starred review for their book that is probably not going to be nominated for anything this year. Rekka (33:38): There are a lot of books released every year and the list is short and it really does come down to who do you know that can nominate you and is willing to or wants to. Um, you know, it's, it's a numbers game. It really is because there's so many awards. Lots, you know, nomination slots and there's way more books than that. And it really comes down to, you know, unlike the numbers game of like, um, market submissions and stuff like that for publications. This is also like, you've, you've got to already know enough people are fanatic for your book that, um, they're going to vote for it. Kaelyn (34:16): Yeah. And it's like, I mean, I know I keep referencing the Oscars, but like, you know, the Academy awards, people don't just watch a bunch of movies and then decide they like this one. There's marketing campaigns and you gotta take out ads and it's very personal and who, you know, and, um, it's almost like trying to get Senate votes. It's a four year consideration type thing. Um, you know, books, obviously it's not, it's not the same kind of setup. It takes a lot longer to get for a book than it does through a movie. Rekka (34:47): But and that's tricky because like, you know, if I look at, uh, an awards nomination list and say, I know I'm going to be voting because I'm a member of that year of, of that association, I look at that list and I don't go, okay, I guess I gotta read all of these and then vote. Yeah. I vote for the one that I did read and enjoyed. Yeah. If I have, you know, if I had time, I'd absolutely read the rest of them, but like I don't always have the time. Yeah. So I'm going to vote for the one that I read and enjoyed, not knowing whether I would have enjoyed some of the others on the list more or that they are more or less worthy. Like it's, it's, Ooh, I know that name. Kaelyn (35:26): It's, look, it's like the reviews. I mean, this, this episode is about subjective things. Very subjective. This is, you know, and I don't think I've ever seen books. I didn't like nominated or win anything. It's not that the books that are getting nominated, it's, you know, because a lot of people know this person or knew about the book and the book wasn't good and they got nominated. Rekka (35:50): Right. And I've seen books that I have read that I would have said, okay, well that book's just not for me. But that doesn't mean the book was bad. Kaelyn (35:59): Exactly. Yeah. And yeah, I think that's an important part of understanding the subjective nature of this in anything with this as just because the book, not every book is meant for you. Um, you know, we talk a lot about your target demographics and audiences and things, and there's nothing wrong with taking a step back and saying the writing is good. I just can't get behind the plot or this character - Rekka (36:20): Or I just, this doesn't appeal to that trope that for whatever reason, even though it's very popular. Kaelyn (36:26): Yeah. Not every book nominated is going to be something that you were in love with. You may not have heard of some of the books that were nominated just because they didn't cross your path. Um, but I think their general, you know, Rekka (36:36): The lists are usually good. It doesn't look like someone bought their way on no, but, but they have and that's because let's like, okay, just straight talk. A lot of books come out every year and a lot of them are really good. Kaelyn (36:51): Yup. And things tend to not get published if they're really bad. Rekka (36:56): I mean not always, but the evidence is there to suggest that the people who pick and purchase books know what they're doing. Yeah. Um, and I'm not just saying that cause I'm in the room with one of them. Kaelyn (37:07): Um, I know what I'm doing? Rekka (37:12): Um, but the fact is there are excellent books out there and everybody who gets published deserves to be published with, you know, asterisk on that I'm sure. But like I mean that with my heart, like if you were a writer and you, and you do this cause you love it and you work very hard and you do everything you can then like you've already done it. Yeah. Like, who cares if you're going to get an award to sit on your mantle and let me tell you, nobody wants to see you posting a photo of that to social media every day and in a month they're going to forget that you want, so don't Kaelyn (37:44): worry about it. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things that if it happens in your career, that's amazing. If it doesn't, that doesn't mean you're not a success. Rekka (37:52): Right. Or if you win it, that's awesome. You deserved it. You might also have wanted if the right people also deserve it, you might also deserve it. Yeah. I wish we could give them out like candy, but that's not how these things work. Kaelyn (38:05): Yeah. So, um, anyway, you know, that's just, that's kind of the episode of subjectiveness. Rekka (38:11): Um, um, don't pin your dreams on someone else's opinion. Kaelyn (38:15): Oh yeah. I like that. Rekka (38:16): You like that one. Okay. There's the title, but um, yeah, I, I think they combine well into the same episode because they are, they are bingo card goals. Kaelyn (38:26): It's awesome. If you got one, do not be hard on yourself. Rekka (38:30): If you have, if you haven't yet, even at the end of a very long career, you'll probably have great sales, especially if you made a full career event, but you may never get one of these things. And that's just the way that these dominoes fall. Kaelyn (38:36): Yeah. Hey, so speaking of accolades and uh, you know, giving out good stuff to people, uh, you can give us a review online. Rekka (38:51): Yes. And we will treasure it as though it were a star from Kirkus or a pretty statue of a rocket ship. Kaelyn (38:57): We would prefer five stars though, not just one. Rekka (39:00): Correct. I very much agree with that statement. Kaelyn (39:05): So yeah, if you can drop us a, a review online, that's great. Rekka (39:08): You know, speaking of things that are good and draw your attention to stuff, uh, you know, it just, it helps with, you know, feed the algorithms and get us in front of more people. And when someone's searching for writing podcasts, they'll go, Oh, well this one gets starred reviews regularly. Kaelyn (39:22): Yup. Rekka (39:23): You can find us on Apple podcasts or iTunes, depending on your Mac iOS system, you can find us on, um, all the various places that you can aggregate your podcasts for your listening enjoyment such as Spotify and, and Google play and all those others. So, um, we want to be convenient for you, but it would be super convenient for us if you could leave that review on Apple podcasts or Apple iTunes just to get them all in one spot one way or another. Unfortunately, that's, we all serve at the altar of Apple at Steve jobs. Um, so we would appreciate that. Um, you can also join in conversation with us at WMB cast on Twitter or Instagram and you can find the entire archive of all our past episodes at WMB, cast.com. Kaelyn (40:11): So Robert, thanks for the question. Um, you know, anyone else there that has questions they'd like to send us? Obviously we, you know, we do take the time to answer them. We pay attention to those things. Rekka (40:21): No question is too small for us to make a whole episode or half of one or, or come up with a way to peg on. Kaelyn (40:27): Yep. We'll do it. Thanks for listening everyone, and we'll see you in two weeks. New Speaker (40:27):    

The #1 Real Estate Podcast host in the world, Robert Helms shares his secrets to success in this interview with Miles Beckler. Robert Helms is the host of the Real Estate Guys Radio Podcast - www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=UlJoVCjTjzUyuyRzj8UyrKHfYnZ8MTU4MTY5NDEyNUAxNTgxNjA3NzI1&q=https%3A%2F%2Frealestateguysradio.com%2F&event=video_description&v=SxSM2m8s0J0 You can find his podcast on all of the major podcast apps by just searching for 'Real Estate Guys Radio' and be sure to listen & subscribe to his podcast. Link to Robert Helms' podcast on itunes - www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=UlJoVCjTjzUyuyRzj8UyrKHfYnZ8MTU4MTY5NDEyNUAxNTgxNjA3NzI1&q=https%3A%2F%2Fgeo.itunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fpodcast%2Freal-estate-guys-radio-show%2Fid194167775%3Fmt%3D2&event=video_description&v=SxSM2m8s0J0 here's a link to the real estate guys radio podcast for Android - www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=UlJoVCjTjzUyuyRzj8UyrKHfYnZ8MTU4MTY5NDEyNUAxNTgxNjA3NzI1&q=http%3A%2F%2Fsubscribeonandroid.com%2Frealestateguysradio.libsyn.com%2Frss&event=video_description&v=SxSM2m8s0J0 With over 20 years experience broadcasting on syndicated radio and an early pioneer in the world of Podcasting, you will get insights about what it takes to grow a brand, a business and an audience through content. It doesn't matter if you are a blogger, podcaster or YouTuber, the secrets to successful digital marketing are here in this video. If you are ready to start your own podcast, here's my helpful free guide on how to start a podcast on a budget - www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=UlJoVCjTjzUyuyRzj8UyrKHfYnZ8MTU4MTY5NDEyNUAxNTgxNjA3NzI1&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.milesbeckler.com%2Fbest-podcast-setup-for-less%2F&event=video_description&v=SxSM2m8s0J0 in this video I have a very special guest. Robert Helms is with me. How are you man? Doing well! If you don't know who Robert Helms is, he's a niche celebrity, he's a podcaster and he is pretty well known in the real estate space. And in this video you are going to learn about the path to success online through creating a podcast. So Robert, for my viewers who don't know who you are, would you mind giving us the little snippet on who is Robert Helms and what does Robert Helms do? So most folks know me as the host of the real estate guys radio program and we're on traditional radio. We have been for 23 years now. We started podcasting when it was pretty new. Our producers said, Hey, we're on a podcast, the show. And I said, what does that mean? Well, we're going to take out a lot of the commercials and we're going to put it out there and we're going to see if people like it. And today we're one of the top downloaded shows. Our show airs once a week in 190 plus countries. And people come from all over the world to our events and it's absolutely crazy. Just a couple of guys with microphones in a suitcase and we talked real estate investment, real estate primarily. Okay, so investment real estate. Let's go back to the beginning. So you were broadcasting before podcasting was a thing, right? So there's obviously some sort of, a little bit of a radio story there and then real estate happened. So... So can you take us to the early days when you overlapped your passion for real estate or whether it even was a passion in the world of broadcasting? How did that happen? It was that exact venn diagram that you talk about. So my dad was a real estate agent, but primarily he was a real estate investor and he loved to buy real estate owned real estate. And I got the bug pretty early. He needed some help. And so to help in real estate, you got to have a license. So I studied to get a license and that gave me the ability to earn $10 an hour, which was twice as much as I had been earning in my overnight radio job. And that was one of my all time favorite parts of my life was learning radio, getting around other people who were learning radio Meanwhile, my dad's and my ear about real estate, I start to get the idea of passive income. You can own a property, somebody else lives in, it takes care of it and they send you a big chunk of the money. I liked that and we figured out how to sell real estate. And then a friend of mine said, Hey, I'm a public speaker and he's still a public speaker. And he said you know, you've kind of a radio background. I was thinking about doing a radio show on real estate. I said, well, you know, when I was at college, I did kind a pilot program for a talk radio program on real estate. So we kicked around this idea for a little bit and we started this fledgling little show where we would just kind of pontificate about real estate. And then before you know it, people would call in and we'd take callers and it grew. And then podcasting is what really made the difference because that's where people raise their hand and say yes, they don't just happen to be tuning by. But I was able to take the thing that I was originally in passion by radio and communication and still am and marry that with real estate in a kind of unique way. So for the quick takeaway here, a few things. Number one is there are two sides to this story, right? There are the media, there's the form of communication and the message. The media was spoken word into a mic... And the message was all about Real Estate, his passion and professional experience for many years...

Introducing When Your Dream Job Disappoints When your dream job disappoints is an issue that can cause great distress in your life. You go for the dream that you think is going to make your own life wonderful and after awhile it seems less than great. But what causes this to happen after you put in so much effort to get to where you are. Well when your dream job disappoints it's more often than not that it either doesn't match up to what you thought it would be about. Or it just becomes normal, and as we all know normal stuff doesn't seem sexy and glamorous. It is just normal stuff that we have to do to go and pay the bills. We lose track of the reasons why we wanted to do it in the first place, and that is when your dream job disappoints. So lets start by looking at email that we received that made us look at this subject in today's podcast episode Dear David, i saw a link you put on Linkedin talking about why do people go for the dream job anymore...would you mind expanding on this? You encouraged me to start my own nursery child minding job and i love every second. I am slightly surprised that you are now changing direction Claire Morgan So now let's look at the Linkedin post: Being honest you see a load of inspiration on Linkedin that in my view misses the point totally. Everyone talks about getting "The Dream Job" all the time, and find your passion and you never work again. But does anyone really want a dream job at all? Doesn't everyone simply want a life that they can do what they want when they want and forget the job? Why is everyone so hung up on finding the dream job? Do what you have to do to earn the cash and then LIVE the dream instead. In the todays podcast episode When Your Dream Job Disappoints - we of course break down the subject in the only way we know. Honesty all the way. So what do you think about the subject When Your Dream Job Disappoints? Should we care at all, or just be glad that we are in a job? Drop us a line at joinupdots@gmail.com and tell us Return To The When Your Dream Job Disappoints If you enjoyed this episode with when your dream job disappoints, why not check out other inspirational chat with Clayton Morris, Dorie Clark, and the amazing Niall Doherty You can also check our extensive podcast archive by clicking here – enjoy Interview Transcription Of When Your Dream Job Disappoints David Ralph 0:01 Once upon a time, there was a guy with a dream, a dream to quit his job support himself online and have a kick ass life. Little did he know that dream would lead him into a world of struggle, burnout and debt, until he found the magic ingredient and no struggles became a thing of the past. I of course, was that person. And now My dream is to make things happen for you. Welcome to Join Up Dots. Intro 0:27 When we're young, we have an amazing positive outlook about how great life is going to be. But somewhere along the line we forget to dream and end up settling in Join Up Dots features amazing people who refuse to give up and chose to go after their dreams. This is your blueprint for greatness. So here's your host live from the back of his garden in the UK. David Ralph. David Ralph 0:52 Yes, hello there. Good morning, everybody. Good morning and welcome to a Join Up Dots is a Join Up Dots hit Halfway through January, the sun is shining. And, and to be honest, I would do anything rather than this at the moment. It's one of those things, and this is what I'm going to talk about. Because it's when you create a job that looks sexy for a certain point of time, after a while, it stops becoming sexy. And you, you, you change, and you realise that the motivation to do something isn't quite as strong as it was previously. And I'm going to explain about that. Because I think so many of us go into jobs, and we are brilliant. They've got this new job. It's fantastic. Yeah, and I'm really inspired. And then after a while, you kind of hit or, you know, it's not as good as I thought it was, and then afterwards, and that's called normalcy that is no more see where it becomes normal. And then when you're normal is a lot sexier than other people's, it stops being sexy. So you see these people all the time, you know, living these amazing lives and when you speak to them, they seem really sort of bored. with it because it's just become their normal. And so today, today, my young friends, yeah, I could be doing anything other than this, but I'm doing it because I it's my job. And that's what we have to do. And it's gonna lead into a link that I put on to a post I put onto LinkedIn. Let's get it straight David. And a response that I had from a lovely lady that I knew a couple of years ago, Claire Morgan, Claire Morgan, and so it's all going to come together. But before we start before we start I just want to say thank you to pre guys I spent all weekend with and why we're Ben David and Pete Pete from Sutton Coldfield. Ben from I think it was was door glass door somewhere. And David was all the way down in Adelaide, Australia and they connected with me for my two day podcast course and we sat there tend to form really tend to to both days going through what makes a podcast Six Figure event. And I think I think they were blown away. To be honest, when I spent all my time saying to people, the success of a podcast is nothing to do with the recording and the microphone, and people still don't get back. But I sat with David and Pete and Ben. And hopefully guys, hopefully, we're going to see some big profits coming into your life because it's better for you. And now you know how to do it. You go ahead. So that was brilliant. Really enjoyed that. Also, I'd like to say thank you to Dan, who actually visited the Join Up Dots, HQ, yes. He's come up into the office on Monday evening. And he was a guy that I trained on online businesses, probably about six months, eight months here ago, whatever. And he's still getting ideas coming to him all the time thinking should I do this? Should I do that? So I sat with him and I said to him, let you know how to do it. Up to you, you know exactly how to do it. And I sketch this stuff out on a bit of paper for him. And you could see a penny dropped, a penny dropped. And he suddenly realised that making a living online isn't hard. It's really, really easy. And I'm going to say it again. Because I say all the time and fingers crossed, people are going to get this. You find the value that other people want. And then you give it to them. You make them see that value, and then they pay for it. And it's really, really easy and everyone who sort of come through my coaching, they get that they get that and if I haven't quite got it, there comes a moment when they can see it. And then I go oh my god, yeah, there's opportunities everywhere. So Dan visited Join Up Dots Hq and he met my my silane my daughter and he came in my house. I mean, he went down to the pub and met my wife. I gave them the Join Up Dots tour. And proven night I could just see he wasn't quite with me. He was We've made but he's brain had already switched because I think he's now got it. He can now see how easy it is to make money online. So Dan, I salute you, sir. You are not only a sexy individual, but you are now Yo Yo Mama, I will be absolutely honest. You're my mate. And I want to see you do as well as possible. Okay, so let's get on to today's podcast episode. And this, this was an email, I was thinking to myself, what should I talk about? And then I received an email this morning, and if that makes sense. So this was the email database, I saw a link you put on LinkedIn talking about why do people go for the dream job anymore? Would you mind expanding on this? You encouraged me to start my own nursery childminding job and I love every second I'm slightly surprised that you are now changing direction Claire Morgan. And so the list expand on my my thinking I speak to so many people, okay. And they are hung up on the, I want to do something amazing, I want to do something sexy, I want to go for the dream. And I understand but I really do understand that. But over the last few years of talking to literally hundreds of you, and now realising that very few actually then go for the dream. It's because it's too big. Now, I've started thinking over a period of time, but and this is comes with the motivation of doing Join Up Dots as well because because I do so well financially, there's a part of me that things I don't really want to do anything else, you know, I'm quite happy to float around, especially when it gets sunny. Find other things to do. Van do my dream job and I'm doing business with my fingers my dream job because people always say to me, oh, it must be amazing and it is. It really is amazing. But I can find out the things to do. And I've started to wonder and I'd love you to drop me a line or come over to Join Up Dots, whatever. And tell me your point of view on this, because I'm starting to think that the dream job isn't important. But it is having the dream life. You know, does anybody really want a job? A job is something that you have to do to pay the bills. But if you can pay the bills easily, then why would you worry about the dream job, you'd fill your time up with doing things that you want to do? You know, I love getting in the car driving along with the music on exploring places going for a pub lunch, just sort of just wandering around, really, you know, I just love that a little bit of adventure every now and again. And this month, we're going away for a couple of nights with some friends. And then next month, I'm going to Iceland for about a week. And then on in April, we got something else and I just spend all my time planning to do things away from the job because I now can and I'm just thinking about it all the time. So I put this post up on LinkedIn, and it said, Would love to know your comments being honest, you see a load of inspiration on LinkedIn that in my view misses the point totally. Everyone talks about getting the dream job all the time and find your passion, then you never work again, find your passion. But does anyone really want a dream job at all? Doesn't everyone simply want a life but they can do what they want, when they want, and actually get the job? Why is everyone so hung up on finding the dream job, do what you have to do to earn a cash and then live the dream instead? And so, I keep on talking to people and I say to them, Look, it doesn't matter about the big sexy being let's do a few small things. Let's be pragmatic on it, to pay your bills, get your debts down and give you the free time to then go and do other stuff. And once you start learning income streams, you can just do more and more and more, you know, I could literally do 100 A week really, and I don't because you get to a point, you know, when you do get lazy and you think to yourself, I can't really be bothered. But then people come along to me and they go, why aren't you doing more with this? I go, I'm doing. Ready. I can't be bothered, really. But there is so many opportunities out there. Why don't we just learn how to make money online? Simple as that. And so when you think to yourself, or I need to pay my mortgage off, just being like, okay, let's create the value for paying the mortgage off. And it's quite easy. I say the word easy again, because if you think to yourself, Well, I make 30 pounds a day. Now 30 pounds a day, 600 pounds a month, 900 pounds a month. Okay? So you are literally biting into quite a hefty chunk of a mortgage. Now, I think in the United Kingdom, most most mortgages around sort of 900 1200 pounds or whatever. But if you suddenly I'm making 30 pounds, which isn't life changing, but it is constant every single De Vayne you pay your mortgage up really, really quickly, you've been suddenly got 1000 pounds a month or 900 pounds a month, but you didn't have which you can then pay off our debts. So you only need to get that small pragmatically built, income stream coming through. And what I like doing is creating leads for other people's businesses. So when you drive down the high street, when you drive anywhere on Earth, you will see businesses that are reliant on other people's customers. So when you know how to do online traffic generation, all you've got to do is actually pass that traffic to them and say, if 10% of our 10 pound for every lead or whatever, and monitor it. And once you get it going, you don't even have to monitor it yourself. And I'm going to keep on banging on about this. I really am because you don't actually have to be doing the work. You build the thing. Then once he starts flowing, you then build another one and you move on, you know, I am doing, I've got five or six things at the moment, operating, and some of them are barely very small and they only pay me back maybe, you know, 80 pounds a month, whatever. But 80 pounds a month suddenly means but, you know, my phone is paid for, or my mobile phones or my kids have or whatever, you know, it's somebody else's money that comes in, which means I've been got an extra 80 quid to Ben spend on something else. And that's how it builds, you end up paying for all your debts based on other people's money. Yeah, it's not your money. You just look at it and think, okay, I want 600 pounds a month extra? How do I get this? Right? What I need to do is get 20 pounds a day. How do I do that? And I think the quickest way, as I say is to drive leads into other people's businesses, and there's hundreds of them, you know, 7.8 billion people on the planet and you can just keep on doing it. Doing it doing, it's what I teach. It's what Do and everybody out there who's been for my coaching will now know, they get that Penny drop moment, but I realised that opportunities are everywhere. So yeah, I put that post on. Why is everybody so hung up on finding the dream? Because I now think, is it the dream job that you want? Or do you want the dream life? You know, if somebody said to you, there's 3000 pounds a month, don't do anything. would you go? Oh, no, no, I still need to get the dream job. I don't think you would. And so there's so many posts on LinkedIn, so many posts on Facebook and stuff, and I just looking at them and I'm thinking, I think they're missing the point. I think people I think that ultimately, we're all lazy. You know, even the ones that are hard working and I work harder than most people. I think we still push comes to shove. We would love to do something that we want to do it in our own time and create like maybe a dream hobby. That takes out tonight. We're not forced on monetizing it, but it gives us the engine Women and we wake up each morning and do it, you know, Join Up Dots. When I'm doing it, I love it. But Join Up Dots is the lead generation Join Up Dots and I speak people across the world connect with me, I've been speak to them. Some of them I never see again, some of them. I was talking to this person during the week. I won't say any names, I won't say any genders. But I gave him an hour. So of my time they came through by email, and then I sent a nice email back and I said, you know, if you ever need to talk, you know, just drop me a line. And I had nothing to do that time. So they did. And so I connected in zoom, and they were across the world. And I gave him about an hour of my time. And it was all thank you so much, David, thank you so much for you know, your help and your assistance. I said no problem at all. You know, that's what I do. That's what I do. You know, that's I'm here. And I said, I'd really like to get onto one of your courses. Could you send me the invoice and I'll sign up for it. And then finally, if that's what you want, so anyhow, send the invoice down. And then about two days later, I get the most horrible email Back from this person, just you know, just, I won't say the words, but if you imagine the worst words that you can think of directed at me, and I just went back to him and said, well, thank you for your understanding. And we're obviously not a fit, you know, but you get that sometimes she gets some people talk about, but the majority of people that come through, I am about Penny drop moment when you see them go, yes. Okay, I can see what you're saying. This is how we do it. So for all of you out there, oh, I've had a response actually, about this LinkedIn post. And I've just seen this. This is Robert load or low day, and he's a gentleman in I think, Berlin, in Germany, but I was connected to God. He says two years ago, I'd be surprised if it was two years ago. And he says, David, in regards to your post here, I remember that you gave me the last push I needed for starting my coaching business two years ago. So I followed my dream and so far, it is still my dream job. I can help people and do what I'm good at, and all that without getting totally stressed out. So thanks again for your support. So that's great. So Robert, you know, he has found a dream job. And he's been doing it for two years. But I think there will come a time where but but it's not the dream anymore. And that's because you've grown, you've, you've moved into bigger things, and your vision is different. And you realise that what interests you, you know, when I was five years old, you know, I used to want to dress up like naughty and do jigsaw puzzles all the time. Now, I like to do jigsaw puzzles, but don't often dress up like naughty, we change we move. And if we were the same people, as when we first met, and when you see people split up and I go, Oh, you've changed and you've been a cause of bloody change. You know, I've been with you for 30 years. You've got to change. You've got to move on and you've got to reassess what you're doing in life. And I'm just in that stage at the moment of reassessing what I'm doing because I think I'm here to make a difference from you guys. And if we're aiming for the bar to be too high, but you can Can't see the dream because you don't know yourself well enough. Why don't we just get you earning some money and then, you know, walk around on a beach on a Tuesday morning? Yeah, do it that way and they maybe the dream will come later. You've taken that pressure off and you can move into into pasties new huh. I wonder, I wonder if this is the right direction I feel like it is and that's why I say these things on the podcast to get people thinking and stuff. But um, yeah, so you know, if anybody wants to connect with me or drop me an email or whatever, you're listening to these podcasts and you're thinking, Oh, you know, I'd like to do this or maybe I don't want to do bass or you want to do you know, learn how to podcast or whatever you want to do or just say hello, just drop me a line. Join Up dots@gmail.com or you can book a time and I'll speak to you one to one and we'll see each other and we'll try and reach out and touch until you become like Dan, when you can come into my office. And he said to me people say it's a shade. This isn't a shade. I said no Dan, I know is not a shade. I know it's not a shirt. And when he bought me a lovely pint and we sat there, and yeah, he's my mate, he's my mate. Until next time everybody. Think about your life think about is to dream too big. Should you just be earning some money? Would you prefer to have more time just be yourself just floating around just enjoying stuff. Whatever you want to do is up to you to make it happen. But it always comes down to the offer and providing value to someone. If you're not providing value, you are not going to make money and money unfortunately, makes the world go round. Until next time, I will see you again look after yourself. Cheers. Bye. When your dream job disappoints.Are you ready to start your own podcast and really make it work for you bringing customers and profits into your life and your business in the easiest way possible? Or perhaps you've already launched and aren't getting the results you want? If so, I'm going to teach you the information that you need that makes all the difference to your success. Now, don't be fooled into believing what others are teaching you when it comes to what matters. your podcast, get those results. podcasting success is not about the podcast. It has nothing to do with a recording or equipment. It has everything to do with understanding your market and making those customers come to you time and time again. This is raw 100% live behind the scenes podcasting mastery, not shown anywhere else. If that's of interest, head over to Join Up Dots and book a time to speak with me to make sure that you're a fit for our next course. This is podcasting mastery live at Join Up dots.com. When your dream job disappoints that's the end of China. Unknown Speaker 18:39 You heard the conversation. Now when it's time for you to start taking massive action. Create Your life is the only life you will be back again real soon. Join Up Dots Join Up Dots Unknown Speaker 19:02 Jolly Jolly

Překonávání životních bouří⁠ Jak se zachovat, když přijdeme o všechno? ⁠ ⁠ Dnes jsme přivítali hosta, Američana Roberta Stefana.⁠ Robert je úspěšný investiční bankéř světového formátu. Pracoval mimo jiné na burze Wall Street, investoval do velkých korporací a se svou manželkou dělá fúze a akvizice po celém světě. V květnu tohoto roku ale přišla velká rána a Robertova rodina přišla o většinu svého majetku. ⁠ ⁠ První, co Robert udělal, bylo, že se modlil. Při modlitbě mu Duch svatý ukázal, že je chyba v jeho srdci. A tak činil pokání. ⁠ Když nás zasáhne taková tsunami, často přemýšlíme jinak a chováme se jinak. Přestože jeho problém stále trval, věděl, že Bůh je stále s ním. Robert znovu objevil důležitost modlitby, blízkých přátel a rodiny. ⁠ ⁠ Říká: Naučil jsem se, že musíme obnovovat svou mysl v Kristu, protože skrze celou Bibli nám Bůh dává zaslíbení. ⁠ Bůh nám neslibuje život bez bolesti, strádání a problémů. Ale slibuje nám, že je s námi v každou chvíli, a plány, které má pro náš život, dokončí a přivede je k dokonalosti. ⁠ ⁠ I vám přejeme, abyste se v nejtěžších situacích dokázali obrátit na Boha a plně mu důvěřovat!⁠ ⁠ ⁠ // Overcoming life storms How to behave when we lose everything? Today we welcomed a guest from the US, Robert Stefan. Robert is a successful world-class investment banker. He worked, among others, on Wall Street, investing in large corporations and doing mergers and acquisitions around the world. In May of this year, however, a big "life tsunami" came and Robert's family lost majority of their property. The first thing Robert did was to pray. During prayer, the Holy Spirit revealed to him that he had the wrong heart. So Robert repented. When a tsunami hits us, we often think differently and behave differently. His problem persisted, and Robert knew that God is still with him. Robert rediscovered the importance of prayer, close friends and family. Robert says: I have learned that I need to renew my mind in Christ because through all the Bible God gives us promises. God does not promise us a life without pain, hardship, and trouble. But He promises us that He is with us at any moment; that He will complete the plans He has for our lives. We wish you to be able to turn to God and fully trust Him!

We both had a lot going on at our houses, so this super quick minisode was only to get out Alysha's apology. Since our episode on Robert the Doll (Artist House), things have been going wrong. So Robert, please take this apology & the paper copy is en route.Please rate & review, it helps our independent podcast grow! Instagram: www.instagram.com/miserylovesgarlicbreadTwitter: www.twitter.com/miserybreadFacebook: www.facebook.com/miserylovesgbpodcast    

Robert Orfino, real estate investor and expert, joins Casey Eberhart on the "Expand the Business" podcast for an incredible interview about the present state of real estate, real estate investing, and even house flipping. Robert is a master at leveraging traditional media and social media to expand his brand and marketing message online. Born and raised in New Jersey, Robert spent countless summers on the Jersey Shore.  When not vacationing, Robert worked with his father doing construction. Robert later attended Kean and Rutgers University, and set out to find a “good job.” Aside from his knack for creating things, he has a life-long relationship with education and is constantly seeking self-improvement.  He also readily admits he is a die-hard NY Giants fan and a long-suffering Mets fan.  At the age of 42, Robert had been working for someone else’s fortune for 20 years and began to understand the importance of wealth and how to create it. In 2007, Robert caught the entrepreneurial bug and left his job to start his own green consulting firm. Within the first year of business, the firm was directly impacted by the financial crisis in 2008. However, Robert persevered through the major financial setbacks that followed and began working as a So-Cal contractor rehabbing Freddie and Fannie Homes.   In 2012, Robert took an opportunity to work on flipping homes for private investors. During this time, he flipped almost 200 different homes. Robert continued to work in the So-Cal Real Estate Market until 2014 when it made a major comeback and deals became scarce.  By 2015, Robert sought out a market gap for flipping houses in New Jersey, the number one foreclosure state in the country at the time, and proactively assembled a team to build business back up again. Although the market had been tumultuous for quite some time, Robert saw an opportunity to raise capital for the New Jersey and New York Real Estate Markets and founded a Distressed Real Estate Investor Fund.   Here is the transcript of the podcast interview between Casey Eberhart and Robert Orfino: Casey Eberhart: (00:01) And welcome everybody to today's episode of expand the business. My name is Casey Eberhart. I am your show host for this hour of amazing insight in helping you, the business owner expand the business. So we are super excited to bring to you guys, everything that we can come up with to help you expand your business. Whatever business you're in, whether you're in traditional business, brick and mortar, business, network marketing, investing, whatever businesses you this show is designed for you. So as an upfront, if you want to download a quick audio, on getting more referrals, just head over to www.ExpandTheBusiness.com. Oh, we've got some goodies over there, some surprises for you over there. And I'm super happy to have you do that again, go over to expand the business.com so super excited today because we have an amazing interview with one of my favorite people on the planet. Casey Eberhart: (01:00) Robert Orofino is one of these guys that you just can't help but to learn stuff from because number one, he's super open and willing to share his ups, his downs, his wins, his breakdowns. In order to help you and I expand our business and really kind of create the life that we all dream of. He is a real estate investor. I've happened to be friends with and have known Robert for several years. I know that Adam, and ask him to go a little bit in depth in this, but you know, one of the things that he and his partners have been able to do in the real estate game as they've made, as far as I know, at least three moves. They've moved from New Jersey to Los Angeles, Los Angeles to Houston. And then from Houston they've really expanded out. They have a radio show that's on drive time in Houston, Texas. Casey Eberhart: (01:47) Every single day they've got podcasts, they have webinars, they have meetup groups, they hold live events, they hold live meetings. They've created a real estate investing fund for investors. Maybe you have a little extra money that you're scared of a scaredy cat. I've been in the real estate market. You don't want to, you don't want to get too much exposure. You can talk to Robert and they've created a fun. So people that are scared still have an opportunity. They have their fingers in every piece of the pie in the real estate market that you've probably or possibly could come up with. And if they don't, they're going to go out and really create the network and the relationships to be able to bring that into the fold. So I thought, well we would do today is really have kind of a deep dive in sort of the structure, the blueprint, the layout, the architecture of what Robert has been able to do in the real estate game, especially in the market he happens to live in at the moment. And I say at the moment, which is Houston, Texas. So He's a partner in Mr Texas real estate, which we'll talk about. He and his partner in a minute. And he also runs and owns Dana point marketing. So with that being said, Mr Orofino, welcome to the show was a Robert Orfino: (03:00) pretty amazing introduction. I'd like to meet that guy. Right? So that was, thank you very much for all those kind words. And it is certainly, um, I always point out that Steve jobs speech we talks about, you really can't connect the dots looking forward, turn around and look back. You can see them. Well, you're one of the dots. Casey Eberhart: (03:21) Well I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But those dots are created by all of us being just connecting, right? So thank you for saying that. You're also one of the dots all and my network, but also many, many others. So Robert, take me back, uh, in the wayback machine to when you were in New Jersey and when I first met you, you were a contract investor slash flipper in, uh, and for those of you that don't know the term flipper, it's somebody that buys a piece of real estate, put some equity into it in terms of capital as well as um, um, not only capital but sweat equity contract or build it out, make it pretty, and then turn it back on the market and sell it off from there. Kind of walk me through how you got started as an entrepreneur back in the flipping days. Robert Orfino: (04:10) Sure. So back in New Jersey, I was a, I was a consultant. I was a green consultant, energy efficiency, that type of renewable energy. Um, you know, I was uh, back in for anyone understands it, uh, the uh, green building. But that was, that was I did right. So the US GBC am original member of that. Um, and I did a lot of consulting out there and I said, okay, I want to become an entrepreneur and the green industry's taking off in southern California, so I need to get the southern California. So I left my job there and I started my own consulting business and within the first six months I booked over $300,000 worth of consulting. It was great. And then September, 2008 hit and the whole world got turned upside down financial world. And I was out there alone with not a lot of, of safety net underneath me, just a couple of retirement accounts. Robert Orfino: (05:10) And I, uh, I found myself in a very large hole very, very quickly. By 2009, we had some bad deals and we had some bad partners and um, we had a lot of the projects just stopped. There was a bond on those projects, which means you're going to eventually get paid, but the eventually it could be 2012, 13, 14. Right? So here I am, entrepreneur trying to figure this stuff out, working both coasts and it, it wasn't working and we're going down a slope in a whole very, very fast. I remember 2009, everyone's still sort of in denial, right? And in 2010, now, everyone's like freaking out. In 2011 was the bottom of the market. So in 2011, I had no more consulting gig. So maybe one or two right here. But I had a buddy who was doing construction for Fannie Mae at the time. Robert Orfino: (06:06) There was tons of foreclosures. They're fixing them up. He says, I have too much work. Can you help me run it? So I came out to California full time, took over the San Fernando Valley, and I started with doing deals, doing rehabs for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, um, all those FHA stuff. Um, but by that time I was already 450, $2,000 in personal debt in the, I owed for $52,000. And next to every single one of those, those dollars was my signature. So you can imagine how panicked we were and how crazy everything was. And we got into real estate and started climbing out of the hole. So 2011 wasn't a bad year for us. But then 2012, Fannie Mae says, we're not rehabbing homes anymore. Now back out of business. But I have a construction business. I've gotten loans on that business. I've got employees. And um, I'll just tell you the, the low point for us is we're, I was down to $6,000 in my bank account and I have a $12,000 monthly nut, right? Robert Orfino: (07:10) And I don't have any jobs on the horizon. And I think to myself, I'm not the smartest guy. And from this moment on, I'm just going to do what smart people do. So I did a little mantra about wealth and all that stuff coming to me and I won't bore you with that. Um, but right after I did the mantra and I was driving down the four oh five, you know what I'm talking about, I got to go to, I got to get to Ventura Boulevard. That's where my po boxes, I go to the Po box now 10 minutes after the mantra about all good things of being positive and wealth coming to me. I opened up the Po box and there's a check for $6,000 exactly what I needed to get through the month of February. And from that point on, I do not want to figure it out or double think it or overthink it. Robert Orfino: (07:59) I just do the mantra. Right? And that turned me on and I got through the month of February, I got a kitchen job, I got a bathroom job. And then later on that year I got picked to work for the best way to call as the clearing house where the hedge funds and for those who don't know the hedge funds, Blackstone is a big one, call me homes. There was another one who worked for, they put billions of dollars of capital on the street buy houses and so we literally could have as much construction work as we can possibly handle. We are doing now 11 jobs, nine 11 jobs a month and we're running through that in 2012 was great. Um, 2013 slowed down, but we had made a name for ourselves. So we are the top two contractors in that clearing house and we kept working all the way through 2013, 2014 I started doing some more green work, slowly climbed out of that hole, but I had always now around real estate business, I'm trying to network with these folks and try to figure out how to get more work. Robert Orfino: (09:01) And I started reversing engineering how this whole business works. And in 2015 I said, hey, I'm going to go do this myself, except I go back to New Jersey to do it. And I go and do it in New Jersey for two years. We did fairly well. We flipped a bunch of houses out there. Um, I was all about just creating cash to pay back my debt. They create a little nest egg so that we felt secure. Right? So just like everyone else in 2013, 2014, 2015, everyone's thinking security, right? They want to have security. We're no different. Um, then I started networking and meeting a lot of people we carry on. And then in 2017 I met some friends from Houston. They introduced me to the marketplace. Um, we had a hurricane that came and I was working the opposite and the, all of the leftover deals in New Jersey from superstorm sandy. Robert Orfino: (09:58) So I understood how flooded houses and when a wind damage houses work. Uh, when the hurricane came here, I already had a base here I'd already done and started doing some education stuff. So we decided we were going to move to Houston and I moved there about 14 months ago. I've, I've been here in Houston for 14 months. Since then, we're able to acquire about $3 million worth of properties. I've doubled my net worth. I'm using all the things that I learned from quite frankly, failure on my, on my last 10 years of being an entrepreneur. And so we, we definitely believe there's no such thing as failure. It's only learning. Sometimes the lessons are very expensive. Sometimes you can shrug them off, right? But there's only learning in coming out of failure. And, uh, with that mindset, I was able to partner up with Jason Bible out here. Robert Orfino: (10:53) He had been very successful. Now we started this new venture and like you said, we have a fund. We have our, our own rehab crews. We have a real estate office, a team that we bought. We work with Keller Williams platinum. So we're able to work on all that stuff, uh, in this marketplace based on all the things I learned. And when I say learn, I'm mostly saying I failed in the past. And I can remember sitting in the lobby in, uh, Gora hills. There's a company out there that nobody knows about. They don't have a website, they don't advertise, but they do $1 billion in real estate transactions every year. They touch every single piece of it. And I sat there and I said, if I ever have the opportunity, meaning of the market opportunity, this is what I'll build. And now I'm here in Houston with the opportunity and we're building a very massive real estate machine. Yeah, it is unbelievable to watch. So I have several that I kind Casey Eberhart: (11:54) of want to push in and, and drill a little bit in on. So when you first moved from New Jersey out to Los Angeles, you said that in your first six months or first nine months, I think that you had $300,000 worth of consulting gigs on the books. How, how did that come about? How did, how did moving from New Jersey to Los Angeles, just because we, you know, I live in Los Angeles, we be, we are, uh, we are very, and I'm doing air quotes. For those of you that are listening green out here in California, what, what allowed you to get in the door? What allowed you to book that kind of book of business? Because I think a lot of people are, you know, get so stuck on, oh it, I'm afraid, I'm scared. I don't know where to go. I don't know what to do. I'm terrified of failing. So on and so forth. What allowed you to like break into that $300,000 market? Robert Orfino: (12:48) I want to say within the first 90 days of me having my own business, I picked up two mentors, both sales and marketing and Robert Orfino: (12:58) they said, Hey, forget this, forget this 30 page proposal and all that. There's all the, all there, all the folks that are collecting those proposals are making do is free work. Yeah. And they said, we've got to figure out a way to get to the decision maker. Once you get to the decision maker, have an honest conversation and they'll say yes or no. And that's, that's where I learned from, from two folks. And so we were able to get to some very big decision makers in the automotive world. Dealerships were one of our bigger clients. We are able to meet with again, really, really big companies like sonic automotive, Penske automotive, auto nation. We want to treacly the manufacturers like Mercedes Benz. Um Oh we worked directly for a Volvo and a lot of those, a lot of the green companies that wanted that for that we were able to go right to the manufacturer and talk to them Hyundai and get real honest conversations. What do you, and then ask them, what are you looking for? How can I help? So going out as an entrepreneur, I learned within the first 90 days to forget what I, what I want and ask how I can help and just give me that. Just how can I help? What are you looking for? Do you want a green, a bigger green footprint rate, I can help you with that. And that's how we land that we forgot the forget the whole sales process, finding the decision maker and help them. Casey Eberhart: (14:25) So it was really about building, I mean essentially, you know, uh, I think a lot of people, um, skip the part of building relationships and building out a network of people that you yeah. You know, sir, um, service that network for lack of a, for lack of a better word. You also said something that I think is really interesting and I think a lot of people kind of Miss Nuance, um, because they are being trained and taught by people that went about it the hard way. So you could write a bunch of proposals and you know, you are absolutely right. The people that are receiving those proposals. If you don't know a lot of proposal type, um, work that's given out, the reason those companies send out requests for proposals or RFPs is so that they can get a bunch of ideas from a bunch of different consultants all for free. Yeah. They may ultimately hire one or they may not hire them, but at the end of the day, they've essentially allowed the bigger game players too, give them free advice and may not ever even call them. And what I loved was that you bypassed all of that and really went in and tried to have conversations with people that were meaningful and figure out how to help them when I'm assuming not every single person you are able to help win. But in that event you then went off and figured out how to help them when once they were done. Speaker 3: (15:51) Yeah, no, we got, we got, um, a very, um, polite thank you's, but not very many followup calls. Yeah. Casey Eberhart: (15:59) Yeah. And so, so Robert, as you were, as you were kind of building out that network with the automotive dealers and, and putting those folks, how important in your success today, if we go all the way back in the wayback machine, how important was it or is it, do you think for entrepreneurs, even if they're just a marketing, not just say, but a marketing firm or a sales firm, or they've got a specific product or maybe somebody just a network marketer or whatever, how valuable is the skillset of building an actual network of people? Speaker 3: (16:37) It, it's everything. Well, you know, we all, we hear all the cliches about the network, right? There's a ton of business cliches and we love to post it on Instagram and Facebook, but you have to actually do it right? And you know, your network is your net worth. That is absolutely true. Um, and we just kept building out and out and out. We, we, we would, we would take meetings from seven o'clock in the morning to 11 o'clock at night and we'd be in crazy places. I'd be at five star hotels smoking a cigar on the beach front deck at 10 o'clock at night, and the next morning I'm at someone's, uh, auto body shop, right? And, but it's just constantly taking these meetings and networking and what can I do? Right? Um, what can I bring? How can I bring value to the folks in my network? Speaker 3: (17:29) How do I connect people in my network? Right? How do I make them, I mean, I've gotten, I've sat down in front of the general manager who complains that he doesn't have a good sales manager. I go to the, three days later, I'm sitting in front of a sales managers saying, I gotta get out of this, this place. I'm like, Hey, do you know this new tire? And over here, why don't you give them a call? Low and behold, I got a a sales guy, right? Well, let me just connect. And so when you start playing that person, that connector in the middle, it becomes extremely valuable. But here's the key, Casey and we, we just went over to this with our real estate team this week. We said, someone will come up to you and say, uh, Hey, do you have an inspector? Speaker 3: (18:11) And what a lot of these big real estate firms do like Keller-Williams and remax on, they say, here's the sheet, here's all our our vendors and just go ahead and call them. And I'm like, that is such a great way, because it took someone time to put all that together to build that relationship with those vendors. And you're just about to just share it and throw it out there. Like it's meaningless, like it's worth nothing. And so, you know, I have a personal rule and I've extended that now to the real estate teams really simply. I just had a guy sitting right here in my office before we got on here worth several million dollars. He's an investor of mine. He's given us money, he works with us, he wants to work with us more. Just told me he's going to invest in my next project. And he said, hey, I need a property manager over here. Can you just text me a number? I said, no, email me. And then I'll do the warm introduction Casey Eberhart: (19:07) because here's the way, hang on a second. That's gold. Go go by. W if you, if you are listening to this, I want you to listen to what Robert just said with a, a very cleaned out here because this is probably the best or biggest lesson we're going to have on this. Go back and let's say it again. So you've got a guy that's, these were sort of several million bucks. He's going to invest in your fund, he's going to do some projects with you. He needs a property manager. And instead of just giving him the sheet of, of, of people saying, hey, Robert Orfino: (19:37) or texting it to them, I said, no, email me and I'll do the warm introduction. And what, what, what does that means is I'm in, it's like I'm collecting interest on the currency. He wants an introduction to a property manager for his third ward and, and, and cashmere gardens. I mean he, nothing too. You are, you know, it's a section of town that's a little rough and he wants to find the right guy. And I said, I have the right guys. He's a good guy. And so I'll just give me his number as I know you mean the email and then I'll do the introduction. So I'll introduce both of them so they both understand the value that I'm doing, bringing them together. Here's the most important thing. If I just gave him the number, he may say, Hey, I got the number from Robert Orofino. Right. But that will be soon forgotten. Casey Eberhart: (20:29) Yup. Robert Orfino: (20:29) That email and that warm introduction, we'll sit there and when the property managers got to go back and find John's email address, he's going to look for my email. I don't remember that I handed that over. Now I'm happy to exchange the currency of my network, but I want to get a little interest Casey Eberhart: (20:48) when I do that transaction. They'll both remember me for it, hopefully. Absolutely. And so it's so funny. Um, obviously you and I work together. Um, and I know this, I know this, I'll call it a strategy, although I don't really even think as a strategy. I think it's just at this point for both of us, just kind of a way of being, but you know, here's the thing I used to, I used to, when I would get on stage and present my first slide on every slide deck was a slide that says, if you learn nothing else, it's this connectivity is today's new currency. For sure enough people who will argue as Bitcoin, some people argue that it's real estate. Some people are gold bullions and people will argue that's oil or dollars or whatever connectivity. Your network is. Today's new currency. And so let me take what Robert said and kind of expand it one more layer deep so that like a social bank account. Casey Eberhart: (21:38) When you meet somebody, you have some in your network, you have a social bank account. It's, it's like you've opened a joint checking account with someone. Every time you deposit something into that account, it gives you the ability to withdrawal later down the road. If you try to withdraw out of a checking account that there is no money in or there's nothing in, you're in the deficit, you're in the hole before you ever start. So let's go back to Robert's example of the property manager. Where I would, where I would do it is I would leverage it out even further. So, so I've got a guy in front of me, he says, I want a property manager in the lower ward. Is that what you called it? Lower Ward. So what I would do is I would say, okay, listen, Bob, or Sally sue or whatever the investor's name is, I'm going to make a few introductions of the top three property managers that I would recommend. Casey Eberhart: (22:29) So what I would do is I would call all three of them ahead of time and tell them, hey, you're going to get a call from Sally sue or Bobby investor. I'm going to send an email, but I want to make sure that you know that I vouch for them. They're great guys. I know a little bit about them. So when you call you when they call, you have a little bit of backstory. Then I would do a warm introduction just like Robert said to all three property manager firms knowing full well that the investor is going to pick one, but what the other two are going to get out of it is they know now that Robert's working on their behalf. Number one, it gives him more bank account, more bank account juice in that social bank account. The other thing does is it also psychologically limits the liability that Robert has if something goes wrong with the investor and the one person he introduced him to, so let's say Robert Introduces Bob the investor to a property manager a and something goes to hire a Toro horribly wrong. They get in a lawsuit they hate each other for what Robert is looking for is that extra interest that could also come back to bite him if something goes gets crazy or unravels or they're not great personalities or whatever. If Robert only gives him one investor or one property manager. Then Speaker 3: (23:46) the other thing that that does is if that property manager is not a good fit, then we leave the investor high and dry. He's going to go find somebody else to give him another referral for another property manager. So I always like to give two or three referrals on the same thing so that way all three people know I'm out working on their behalf. But also it gives them the ability to pick the one that works best for what they're looking for. And it's psychologically go, I can go back to the investor or Robert can go back to the investor and say, Hey, I know the property manager Adan work, but you've got B and c here. Or if something goes haywire, you go, hey boss, that's why I gave you three. Let's go back to the other two and see if those, one of them is the better fit, don't to work. But the leverage is massive. Speaker 3: (24:36) So Robert, I know that you used, um, I know that here in Los Angeles you really built out meetup as a platform and started to build your network using meetup. I talk a lot about meetup, I work very in depth with meetup groups and people that organize meetups. Talk to me a little bit about kind of how that worked for your business and how that helped you grow the network here in Los Angeles. So you know, probably listening understands what meetup is and if not, it's, it's a, it's a platform that allows you to organize an event and use that platform to broadcast out. It is a little labor intensive. Um, they don't have a really good email CRM set up internally for you to use. That's probably by design. Um, however, here's the trick. Like I've done it. I, we have many, many meetups across the country. Speaker 3: (25:33) We, a lot of them are webinar based, some are acts or are, are in-person based. And I've, I've seen a lot of the folks in my industry say, well, I'll just do what Robert's doing right? And then three months down there meet up is gone. Right? I pick a lot of those meetups up Soto. I absolutely. So do I. We, we, we pick up these old, these you said meet up all the time, revive them and put them into a webinar based meetup. So you really, really, really have to have thought on content, right? Like you can, you can get your friends to come out to the first one and the ones, your friends who didn't make the first one will probably come out to the second one. The third meetup is really are you getting any traction? Right? And the third meet up might be as small as three or four people, but don't freak out, right? Speaker 3: (26:26) Is the ones that get traction are the ones that stay. People will go to meet up and look at all the past meetings to say, oh look, there was that. This guy knows what he's doing. This guy has traction. You've got to build out the traction. You've got to stay with it for six months. Once you do that and you'll have three, four, 500 contacts, maybe a thousand after six months, um, that you can tap into, that you can work, that you can make introductions to, that you can rely on. And um, you know, in that world, you're gonna find some, as you call them, raving fans and your raving fans will support you in no matter what you do. And so that's a really, really good way to do it. Again, it becomes a little labor intensive. So we've hired someone just to sort of Julian house stuff for our meetups, but it is a very good platform that caused, I don't know, a couple hundred bucks a year. Speaker 3: (27:19) It's nothing much that allows you to start positioning yourself as an influencer or an expert. Right. And at this point, you know, the joke is that me and my partner, it's like we're not going to any room that we're not on stage for now that might sound egotistical and all that other stuff, but we understand at this point in 10 years of doing this that it is much better to the beyond stage than it is to be in the seat. Right? And so meetup allows you to position yourself to share your expertise to the marketplace. Um, and it's a, it's a very, without paying a lot of money to the coaches and all this other stuff, you can positioning yourself as an expert, share your expertise, share with say what you need to say, share too, because people want to know the things that, you know, I don't care if you're a florist or a real estate investor, people want to know. Speaker 3: (28:14) And so you can position yourself as an expert in the delivery, your expertise to that room versus trying to figure out how to get on everyone else's stage. And then when you figured out that a lot of these stages are revenue driven, you're never going to get on that stage. So if you could just deliver your expertise to the marketplace or meetup, we find it to be, and the very, very exciting platform for us to use. Yeah. So let's, let's unpack that a time a tiny bit. So if you're not aware of how meetup works, you guys as an organizer of a meetup, they will basically play matchmaker. So you have a whole bunch of people that are out in the, in your local community that are looking to be around likeminded individuals. And so they go to meetup and they search on criteria, real estate or network marketing or you know, I want to go hikers, florist, whatever. Speaker 3: (29:03) Yeah. I want to go hiking or wedding professionals or photographers or you know, motorcycle riders, soccer players. It's, it's basically a place for people to go find people of likeminded. Well, as an organizer of meetup, it allows you to say, Hey, my meetup is based on these 15 search terms or these 15 categories or criteria. So when you start a meetup, meetup is gonna send out an email to the millions and millions of people that have said, hey, notify me when a meetup starts with this particular topic. You know, I, I'm, I'm a, I'm somebody that wants to knit and quilt and I'm a beekeeper and love hiking, right? Casey Eberhart: (29:42) So it'll, it'll start to match make and it is essentially a free or almost free lead generation machine. Yeah. So what Robert is talking about is he can start a meetup group on real estate investing in San Fernando Valley. Meet up is going to put a bunch of people in there. Now he could email all those people individually. You could email them all as a group. He could set up a Webinar to let them all come to a webinar. He could, um, create an environment for him to bring in other speakers, other folks as well. So if I take this step, take a half step further. If you are afraid of public speaking and you don't want to be on stage, use it to leverage and bring in other folks that might have more knowledge in the particular area that you have. You could say to Robert, hey, um, come on in, come on in. Casey Eberhart: (30:31) Uh, I want to have you do a half hour to my real estate group and he will because he wants to be onstage right now. The reason you want us to be on stage is because there is a phrase in the world of business, um, that not a lot of people use anymore. It used to be used quite frequently back in probably the seventies and eighties, but it goes like this. He or she who has the marker, makes the money. And essentially what that means is most of the time, all things being held constant, the person doing the presentation almost always as the expert and that expert is going to be positioned and seen as the guru, if you will, more than somebody that's just sitting in a chair. Right? So if Robert is doing a presentation in front of 40 people or 30 people or 20 people or 400 people, he is at that point perceived as somebody who has the marker, who's making the money, the, the, the cache and the influence goes to him. Casey Eberhart: (31:28) Now, one other, one other thing that is, uh, a great meetup strategy is Robert said they don't go to events if they don't, um, if they're not in the front of the room, well, here's the thing. A lot of events, they're either going to have to pay to sponsor to beyond or they have to do a big revenue split, so on and so forth in order to get on those stages. Well, what if somebody, like you has a meetup group and you've got 50 people that are all about real estate and you're kind of the guy or the Gal in your local market, and then you look at Robert and you're like, Robert, wow, he'd be amazing to come have speed. Well, here's the thing. He also has rooms where there are people. And so you could do what's called in the business a stage swat. You know, Hey Robert, you come speak on my stage, I'll come speak on your stage. And then, um, it's a great way to leverage of those folks and give the content or give the audience the best possible experience. Yup. That's how it works. Well, you got to put your time in. It is a little labor intensive when you, you've really got to deliver expertise to the marketplace or people won't come. Casey Eberhart: (32:39) Absolutely. And here's the thing, the number of people that aren't consistent, aren't willing to put the work in are super lazy. Those people won't survive, but their meetup groups will survive. So those lazy folks that come in and start it and they do one and two people show up and they're like, ah, this is stupid. I'd rather just go sit in an audience somewhere and listen, um, and network better. Well, here's what happens, guys, like Robert and I, as soon as that organizer gets so lazy that they don't pay their bill or they stepped down as an organizer, meetups are going to actually send an email. I'll say, hey everybody, that's a part of this group. We're desperate to have somebody step up and step in as a leader. Robin, we'll own that group before the end of the day. He's just, if there's 200 people in that group, he's just generated 200 leads in his ideal absolute market with, with, with not being lazy with one click of a button. Speaker 3: (33:33) Yeah. And we think them all the time. We pick them up from, uh, it's, you'd be surprised how many, how Vegan influencers that people are. They let these things drop and you know, guys doing million dollar slips up and down the, the, uh, Pacific coast, that's one drop. I pick it up. I started doing my webinars six months later. He remembers he had a meetup emails me and says, Hey, what happened? I want to, I want to do some more. And it's like, hey man, you let this thing go now, normally if it's in the first 30 days case, I just give it back. Yep. Yeah. Here you go, man. That, that's fine. Sorry. Hey, how's it going to keep it going? This what I do. But if you want to do it, if it's just a real oversight, but I'm met people come back to me a year and a half late. Speaker 3: (34:19) I used to own this meetup. Where were you when you have an obligation? Well if people are, are, are taking the time they're picking you, they're subscribing or allowing you to enter an email box, which is a pain in the ass for everyone. You have an obligation to deliver. And if you're not delivering then you know, meetup season in my way. Yup. See who say, hey you, you didn't respond. This is too bad. But again, it usually in 30 days, okay, you can have it not a problem if it's six months or a year. People coming back to me cause they see the, I've grown the group from 265 to 1500 people. No, he can have that back then. I'm looking, I'm working at now. These people are getting value and expertise for me so we don't, uh, we don't hesitate to jump on some of these meetups when they become available. Casey Eberhart: (35:10) Well, you brought up a really valid point is that number one, um, the labor is really you guys, the Labor that Robert's talking about is, is not as heavy duty burden as most of you are spending on your business anyways. It's about finding a, a banquet room at a local restaurant or a small hotel meeting room or go talk to your Keller Williams franchise and see if you can use their conference room or you know, your insurance agency that has a training room. Heck, we have here in the valley, in the Fernando Valley in Los Angeles. We have a Ford dealership that has an amazing training room where they train all the reps that you can, that you can rent. And then being able to provide as much value as possible. And if you become the person that provides value to the network, the reality is then your influence in that network is going to be huge. Casey Eberhart: (35:59) Right. You know, and it can be a super old school. Like I was just showing my little nephew, I have a 17 year old nephew who, uh, just graduated from film school camp and direct and he wants to be a director and I showed him my own, my old networking book. I used to back in, in the wayback machine. I used to have my network in a three inch binder and that binder had sheets in front of it that had names and phone numbers on it. Then there was business card sheets where I'd put business cards and I'd write notes on the business cards. Then there were sheets that were profiles of people so that if I knew Robert's wife's name was Katherine and he was in my network, I'd write Catherine, what is she interested in? She has an amazing life insurance business where she can help you create a bank for yourself, um, as an investor using the, using the tool of life insurance. Casey Eberhart: (36:48) So I'd write Katherine Orofino Life Insurance, I'd get her phone number, and then I would literally my daily activity that would be to work that notebook. How can I connect people? How can I make connections? How can I introduce Catherine to somebody else's if it's somebody else's network. Right. Because the better off you get at staying in touch with your folks. Staying connected. Now I have been to use a greeting card and gifting platform to be able to do some of that in conjunction with a CRM system in conjunction with kind of old school. Um, your network is so unbelievably valuable in terms of expanding the business. Robert, what tools do you guys use down in Houston? Oh wait, before you answer that, let's, so let's move to Houston. So you basically said, hey, I've got an opportunity in Houston, I'm going to pack up the fam, we're going to move down to Houston and we're going to kind of make our mark in Houston. What percentage of the architecture of your marketing plan in Your Business Plan did you take from Los Angeles and basically start to recreate down in Houston? Robert Orfino: (37:58) Oh, Robert Orfino: (38:00) everything at work. So we immediately started doing meetups for sure. Um, and, and what I was, what I was able to become in, in La, the little niche that I built, cause I was the guy who told you all the dirt, right? All the inside baseball stuff. There's no secrets with me. I, I'll sit up there and tell you, hey, I'm going to sell you a product products, not 1000 bucks. I'm going to make $400 for everyone I sell and it should work for you. And if it work, call me up and I'll give you your money back. Right. I was able to sit, just go, just completely honest with everything we did open books, right? And that was a lot easier, uh, to, to deliver to a marketplace like, like Houston, I was, everyone else is doing the whole, you know, you can become a millionaire and lot, you'll be, have this great lifestyle and all that stuff. Robert Orfino: (38:59) I'd stand up there and say, that's nonsense. That's nonsense. That's nonsense. This is what works. But oh by the way, you've got to put in 35 hours a week. So if you don't have 35 hours a week, it's going to be very difficult for you to do this. And we started breaking things down. This is the real amount of time. This is the real cost, right? And you know, my joke is if, if you can really do real estate for no money down and bad credit, why does the guru won $1,000 on your credit card, right? Because they're making money off of that. Then it's, you're in real estate. Guess what? You need money, right? So you may have a dream of doing this for no money, but I'm, I'm the dream crusher when it comes to it. And then I can really explain why this can work this certain way, what you really need and how your resources need to come together. Robert Orfino: (39:56) And we, we've had people come to our rooms and say, I don't want to do this. I want to do. And I'll say, great, what's your, what's your phyto? How much money did you make a year? How much money you have saved? And they're all bad answers, right? And I turned to him, I'll say, Casey, I'm going to give you the best advice you're ever going to get, that you're probably not going to take. You need to get in your car and drive Uber for the next year and save every dime that you made from Uber so that you can then have a deposit to go buy a house, or you have enough money to start a marketing program. Or You have the money so that you can do a flip. But you're gonna have to put the time in. Most people, you know, come to us and in our world I'll say, hey, what are, how are your sales and marketing skills, right? Robert Orfino: (40:44) These are like the real conversations we have. I'm not very good at, I'm a bit of an introvert. Okay, well you're not going to do well. You've got to break down that wall. And I would highly suggest you just go spend $500 with a, was an organized multilevel marketing business direct sales program where they've got tons of marketing and sales coaching already up on the website, make a small little investment. And I don't care what it is, candles, pills, lotions, oils. I don't care what it is, bottle that program. Because when you follow that program that someone's put a lot of time and effort in, just follow that program so you can get better at marketing one yourself and your expertise and products and too you become a better person on the clothes. And so you can break out of that for $500 versus going down in real estate, man, I feel a charging 25 $50,000 for coaching program. Robert Orfino: (41:42) Stay out of that rabbit hole and for $500 just work on your skills. Know that I'm going to go sell post it notes for the next six months so that I can hone my skills and move into this other space. So we, we give the hard truth and some people respect it. Some people don't. We don't have big rooms of a thousand people like some of these other events because we tell people once they come in the door, hey save here Saturday, there's, there's no magic here. There's no pixie dust. This is all work and resources. And if that's not what you're looking for, I tell him straight up, Casey, you should probably leave right now. Go to the park. It's a beautiful Saturday. Enjoy the day. Casey Eberhart: (42:31) Yeah, you know, you, you brought something really, really valuable and it's obviously near and dear to my heart as well in that, you know, somebody that goes, if somebody comes to me and I'm in the same situation, I have a lot of people come to me and say, Hey, I want to.dot, dot. Finish the sentence. Right? And what it really comes down to is they want to have what somebody else has, but they don't want to do what that person did to get there. They want to leapfrog it or, or, or take the, shortcut it with somebody that understands the power of investing. And I always go back to rich Dad, poor dad, Rich Dad, poor dad, the cashflow quadrant. You know, you want to own businesses, you want to invest in businesses. You know, something like a network marketing business is one of the best investments in terms of return on capital that you could ever get. Casey Eberhart: (43:28) Not only the entry point is not millions or hundreds of thousands, it's usually a few hundred bucks. It's going to teach you skills like marketing, Internet, social media, shaking hands, getting nos, building up your thick skin and the money that you make can be astronomical and it can also be zero. But if you go into it looking at what is the skill I'm going to get out of this experience and not focused on the money piece, it's huge. You know, like I've, one of my best friends, uh, this was when I very, very first started my coaching career. He was one of my very first clients and he said, I, um, I want to start a consulting firm. And so we have this conversation. And He, I said, well, what skill do you think you need as a consulting firm? And he understood the market that he was consulting in, but he had zero skills in sales, right? Casey Eberhart: (44:23) So we didn't really know how to talk to people. He was a super nerd computer. He can write code, he can be total nerd, um, nerd and geek, but he can know interpersonal skills. He had no um, no experience and so I was like, look, let's go find out. This was in Seattle who is rated the best sales training program in the country and let's go to work for them. And it just so happened to be xerox as though he went to work for Xerox for a year and he basically cold called high rise building offices trying to sell them copy machines. The skillset that he generated out of that was massive. Yeah, right. Same with people that, that that you know will say, oh, I'm broke. I'm working in a whole foods for 13 bucks an hour. I have no money. I'm super in debt. Casey Eberhart: (45:16) What do I do case? What do I do? I'll say, go join a network marketing company that the products or services or something that you can kind of get behind and understand that you are there to learn the skillset of building a network, interpersonal communications, how to maybe play a little bit on social media and focus on the return on that dollar for dollar investment and Start Your Business Mind in how do I look at a balance sheet? How do I look at a profit and loss statement? How much money do I put in every month? How much money do I get out every month? The the network marketing space is a mimic of real life business. Robert, you and I have both owned brick and mortar businesses. You know, I've, I've owned a bunch of businesses. You first off, you don't go buy a business for under 500 bucks. Casey Eberhart: (46:05) Number one with employees that have already taken into account websites and insurance and customer service and shipping product development, you're going to do that all on your own. You're into millions of dollars or you can go tap into a company or in a firm that's done all of that. And your job is simply to bring customers and other distributors to the table and then run it like a business. So you've got your goals, you've got at the end of the month, you look and you go, okay, well this month I spent $400 on vitamins, but I was able to move $300 worth of vitamins. So I'm now in the whole 100 bucks. And then I got paid $400, I'm net 300 up and run it and get into the habit of running that business like a business. And so often I think most people will start a business and then they run it like a hobby and then they get irritated and agitated that it, it throws off hobby money and then all entrepreneurial is bad or network marketing is bad or real estate investing is bad. You know, Robert Orfino: (47:04) it happens all the time. And that is one of the key things is to run like a business. Um, you know, we, I'm a big believer, there's a book out there by a Michael Kollwitz a the pumpkin plan. It's a really good sort of, hey this is how I'm going to start and make sure I'm putting the things away. Make sure I understand what a balance sheet is. Difference between a balance sheet and a p and l, right. Cause there is a difference. Um, make sure you understand those things and run it like business for sure. Um, it's almost like you're playing in my head. I, I have a webinar coming up this Saturday called run it like a business because too many people get into the real estate game and don't understand, um, Robert Orfino: (47:43) all the benefits you can get from running like a business. I always say, hey, there's five ways to make money in real estate. It can be a wholesaler between, you can pedal paper contracts around and wholesale a contract, one person to another. You can flip a house. That's HDTV. Look at all the, how beautiful my kitchen is and I'll make some money there. It could be a landlord. Everyone knows where the landlord is. Um, you could be just an investor, a person who just what's funny out and owns the notes or a mortgage, right? Private mortgages, there's a fifth way. If you get to the fifth way, you're doing really well. That's called depreciation. And a lot of people will buy large apartment buildings or are expensive properties just for the depreciation. But we understand that there's a massive tax benefit for real estate and you have not prepared yourself to take advantage of that tax benefit. And you're right, it's a hobby. It's just a hobby. And so when you start running it like a business man, there are two types of tax codes in this country, one for individuals and one for businesses. I'll let you decide which one you think is better. Casey Eberhart: (48:55) Yeah, yeah, Robert Orfino: (48:56) and if you've read that it's the business passcode is better than why don't you own a business? Why aren't you running your hobby like a business? Casey Eberhart: (49:05) We've kind of touched on real estate and network marketing is kind of cool that way. You know, I always crack up. It's like if you're going to buy products or using network marketing company, you guys understand that that's a business you have. You get open up to just a little taste of what Robert's talking about in terms of tax deductability things like your haircut, your, your clothing, your office. Did you use your Internet, your cable TV, your magazine subscription has all become tax deductible for 50 bucks or whatever your distribution distribution thing is. You have been fantastic at attracting and doing deals with partners and I know that a lot of times people get scared from partners. They had a bad partner or their mom's brother's girlfriend's dog catcher was a bad partner. How, how do you help? Not a, do you, I'm assuming that you like doing deals with partners. What makes a good partner? How do you, what, what are some pitfalls? What are, what do you look out for when you, when you are looking to partner with someone? Robert Orfino: (50:04) Yeah, so this is that learning process, right? It was $125,000 lesson. Um, I had a bad partner and I use a lot of my own capital to push a deal forward. Only at the end of the realize that, um, what was being told to me wasn't reality. And so I had spent over $125,000 for some green energy projects and I lost as at all. And then we're going to do that again, obviously. Right? And so I much prefer a joint venture and illimited joint venture, meaning there is a clock ticking. So the most I'll stay married to any one partner at this point is about five years. Right. Even even my, my partner would've been everything. Everything we're doing. Jason is a partner or mine. I've already told him, Hey, I'm done. Like I got a five to seven year horizon. I'm done. You're 10 years younger than me. Robert Orfino: (51:04) You want to keep going. God bless you. Keep me on as a, as a consultant and I'll let me own a little bit and I'll sell my share to someone else. And you feel that you want to bring in, we can get, you can walk away clean on this stuff, but I'm done. I have a number in my head, I'm very close to that number and I'm done. Right. I'll go start a little cafe will be my next business. I like making breakfast. Um, so I, I would tell people that you are going to do jvs joint ventures, you're going to have a really defined the roles in which people are supposed to do. Um, and then have a time limit for the partnership. That's really important. And the big thing is what happens when it hits the fan. Yup. And the way we do a lot of it is we have an attorney journey that we both respect and we say he doesn't like you, the one who was anymore. Robert Orfino: (51:59) So let him in him, let him do the, uh, the wisdom of Solomon move. And I don't have to pay for arbitration mediation or lawsuits. Right. And if he, if he says, Robert, you're wrong. And Jason is right, I can accept it. Right. And so we have the worst case scenario decided upon while we're still friends. Yep. And that's, that's the thing with partnerships and, and you know, be careful, I'll just tell you, in a real estate world, a lot of people will call it a joint venture, but it's really not. It's a, it's another form of passive investing, which is kind of illegal. You got to make sure you're, you're really have a role responsibilities for folks and what they're going to do. And we have, um, you know, and making sure your partners are taken care of is really, really important. I'm making sure that all the goals are laid out moving forward. Robert Orfino: (52:53) It's very hard for partners really to move forward at the same pace you all to beginning and then something happens and this happens. So you've really got to define the roles and what the expectations are. I would be spending probably, I mean, I would literally probably go to a hotel or something and just shut my cell phone off and sit down with my potential partner and stay there for three days and work out every detail. Who's gonna, who's this role? What's this role? Who gets hired first? Who gets hired last? Who through all of it. Really, really planned that business. It's still, when there is a problem with an event, Evan, there always will be. Yeah. Well what does our agreements say? Oh Lo Casey, you're supposed to be doing this. Are we changing the agreement now? Dude, I'll, I can take that onto, I get a little bit more of the, of the ownership. I get a little bit more of the cash. How are we feeling about that? Uh, so having very good partnership agreement. I like to do a joint venture limited five years sort of maximum. Um, then that's the best way to do it. Casey Eberhart: (54:05) Yeah. I was actually listening to, I've become recently, I've become obsessed with a real estate podcast other than do a ever, ever, I try to listen to an episode or so every day, especially as we grow the, expand the business podcast here, and the guy that was being interviewed today was talking about joint ventures and partnerships and that there's essentially a real estate delta, which is three prongs to a triangle. And it is, somebody needs to come and show up with the hustle. Someone needs to come and show up with the knowledge and someone needs to come and show up with the money. And good partnership is when you can come with at least two of those three, those, those three things. But the key is that you don't want to find a partner that has the same two of three or the same one of three of those Delta points that you do Robert Orfino: (54:57) for sure. And most importantly, when we're starting out, be aware of the person who has none of the three be the partner, right. That's, that's a, that's a red flag right there. Casey Eberhart: (55:08) Awesome. So Robert, I want to touch on one last area before, before we let you run. Um, and that is the idea of the importance and maybe you don't think it's important, but maybe you do a of how important is it for you since you guys, since you and Jason are kind of the pinnacle influencers in your ecosystem in Houston. I know you have a, a radio show you do every day, you guys are doing tons of Facebook stuff, tons of Facebook lives. You kind of become the B guys that have been able to cherry pick some of the deals that come through just by your influence. I know that in a lot of situations you're the smartest guys in the room. So I want to flip this and ask how important is it to you to have coaches or advisors or mastermind people where you have somebody that's pushing you guys that's making you stretch, that's making you think rather than, you know, I'll say it differently rather than you always being the smartest one in the room. You're involved in scenarios and situations where you're not necessarily the smartest one in the room, Robert Orfino: (56:14) right? So I will tell you that I wake up every single day and one of my quick little mantras is, is you know nothing Speaker 3: (56:25) and we're going to learn something today. So I take life in general as I'm the dumbest guy in the room and everyone here can teach me something. And it's because when I get caught up with being the smartest guy, I have failed. I have absolutely failed. Now My, my partner, Jason is very smart. He is clearly, Eh, it's clearly 10 IQ points or more higher than me. I could see it in the conversation. I become a very good reader of prison. I can see it in the conversation. I have to ask questions about the formulas in the words. I'm like, Hey, can you go over that? And a little bit different way. And he has the patience to work with me on that. Um, he, he's a genius when it comes to this stuff, right? Um, no I don't. He can't do what I do on a lot of places and we wouldn't be successful if we tried to do this alone. Speaker 3: (57:24) Um, but for sure he's a genius when it comes to business and real estate. It looks at things much, much differently. Comes up with a lot of great ideas. Just being around him is very humbling. Uh, but it's also a very exciting, every day when his outside the box thinking hits my, I've been punched in the face many, many times. Practical thinking we can come up with something that no one else is doing. And so I get coached every day by my partner. We pay for coaching. Um, we are in, we've, we, and I'll tell you, um, I've been asked to coach a lot. Uh, I don't have a for you. Say yes, let's have a chat. Yeah, let's, let me put it this way. I don't cook, but I don't say no. Someone who says, Hey, I could really use a couple hours of your time and I'll say, great, I'm at $7,000 an hour. Speaker 3: (58:23) And they're like, whoa. I'm like, yeah, okay. So you can just join my membership where I kind of give all this stuff away anyway. Or you can join my mastermind, which is where I really like to work. What I have found over this last 10 12 years does that that mastermind format is where I excel because I can walk into a room again with that mindset. I'm a dummy and I'm going to soak up so much knowledge today. Right now I enjoy the one on one hour with my coaches. It's absolutely critical. I need it, but for me, I would rather present a mastermind to the public for real estate and to do coaching because here's the reality of Real Estate Coaching Siren. Good job. I'll get back to, but on the reality of, I know I'm all over it, and the reality of Real Estate Coaching is 90% of everything you need to be a landlord, a house flipper, wholesaler [inaudible] is on the Internet the last 10% really the loading order, how you do things and when, which order is what you will pay people to learn. Speaker 3: (59:33) And in that case it could be a coach, but I would much prefer a mastermind, um, masterminds and maybe have lots of Q and a so you can get your questions answered, throw it up on a Facebook page, like your groups have a question to ask them for the group. And a lot of people give you that wisdom of the group. It's really important for me. Um, I will, I will take on a coach when I have a very specific problem, right? How do I get more contact through Facebook platform, through Instagram, through youtube. And I'll sit down with you every month and an hour and we'll go over it. Are you doing this? Are you doing that? Hey, I just heard someone do a speech on this. You guys go look it up and see if that applies to you. So we'll, we, we like that coaching but in a mastermind event and I know you also run a mastermind, um, those are phenomenal and those masterminds you want to walk into and absolutely take on the understanding that I am the dumbest guy in the world. Speaker 3: (01:00:36) Casey, you mentioned a name to me, Roland. Yep. And I was like, boy, that name sounds familiar. And I went back and I was like sure enough, I'm in his, I was in his mastermind, I paid him, he and Ken Colder did a mastermind together in that room. I was in that room with him when he had just bought the survival opening survival life.com and he was giving my all these knowledge bombs and I was like, for sure I'm a dummy in that room. Well man was I getting my money's worth right now? And being in that room with that mastermind, having access to those people, being able to call an email and text them is critical. I don't think you can do it on your own. I think it's, I think one, it's just foolish. It's, it's, it's, it's foolish to think you're going to reinvent the wheel. Casey Eberhart: (01:01:30) I think there's a lot of people that have the personality type. Well if I'm going to do it, I've got to do it myself. Cause it's the only way it's going to get get really done. And in these mastermind groups, what really occurs is that you're paying or you're investing in access of the people, not only in the group, but access to the person who are running it in terms of who their network is. I mean, you know, Roland now, um, is one of the owners of a mastermind room called the war room. That is phenomenal. I mean, Roland, Roland Frasier is, is one of the most astute business people on the planet. And uh, uh, I can't wait for him to know that this has come up. He'll get it, he'll get it to kick it off and just let me get his podcast a huge shout out. It's called the business lunch. You, you, if you're not subscribed to it, go subscribe to Roland Fraser's business lunch. It is phenomenally Leery, sits down with guys that most people would never have access to and just kind of has a conversation over lunch. It's fantastic. So, um, Robert, before we wrap this up, Robert Orfino: (01:02:34) okay, Casey Eberhart: (01:02:34) last kind of words. I want to give you kind of the floor for a minute or so and just kind of give some advice to the listeners on the show and kind of how they can help expand the business. Robert Orfino: (01:02:45) Uh, I will tell you that obviously we talk a lot about networking and that's a really big thing for us here. Um, by becoming, dropping ourselves into a lot of existing networks and saying, hey, we're here. We're going to tell the truth. We're going to give you sometimes the ugly truth, sometimes good truth, um, just okay. You know, the Internet, the Internet and Facebook and that whole world, that whole social media world is, you know, they're filled with people that look like they're leaving a good life and looks like their business is killing it. But I always say, Hey man, give me 20 minutes with any real estate investor and I'll figure it out. You know, how close they are to jumping off a cliff, right? Because there's a reality there. Um, and I think what happens is people look at this and say, Oh my God, am I, why am I failing? Robert Orfino: (01:03:38) Right? And it's, here's, here's the reality of it. They've all failed. Some of them just fell a lot faster than you. And so they race ahead of you. Um, we think that being in this business is a fantastic way to create wealth. And if you're not in this business for ego boost, you don't need to post. You're, you're betting in Vegas full of cash or pose in front of a lambo or a private jet and you can just go about your business and doing it. So in the Internet world, right, there are people that are creating wealth and growing their business and there are people that are positioning themselves in the marketing world. You don't need to do both. Casey Eberhart: (01:04:24) Yup. Robert Orfino: (01:04:25) You can just put your head down and say, I'm gonna retire in five years. And those are the folks we love to have around us. Um, I'll also say that a big thing for us was, uh, multiple streams of income. I know you hear it all the time, Casey, if you could just focus on one thing, you'd be a billionaire, right? Yeah. I to thy own self be true, understand your limitations. And what motivates you to get out of bed every day and follow through on that. And I know that I cannot focus on one thing at a time. Casey Eberhart: (01:05:03) Me Either. Robert Orfino: (01:05:04) I can focus on being a really good manager

Robert is on a solo episode again, not on purpose, Jonny and Robert actually recorded an episode but alas there was a technical snaffoo, so our "Podcast Captain" Ben, ordered a new podcast. So Robert, talk about what Jonny and he spoke about in the first instance and Robert gets a little hot under the collar about a few particular stories.  Here are the links Robert and Jonny would like to be added for the show notes:   Polestar: https://www.electrive.com/2019/02/27/polestar-2-to-premiere-with-e39900-price-tag/ BBC Article, actual facts: https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/if-every-petrol-or-diesel-car-in-the-uk-was-replaced-with-an-electric-car-how-many-charging-points-would-we-need/ e-Bond: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/mar/13/james-bond-to-drive-electric-aston-martin-in-new-movie VW ID pre-order: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/97043/new-vw-id-hatch-order-books-for-vw-electric-car-open-on-may-8-2019  

On this episode of the Healthy Wealthy and Smart Podcast, Jenna Kantor guest hosts and interviews Sue Griffin on how to be the speaker for the APTA’s House of Delegates.  Dr. Sue Griffin is the Speaker of the House of Delegates for the American Physical Therapy Association. In this episode, we discuss: -What are Robert’s rules of order -The responsibilities of the Speaker of the House of Delegates -What roles you should seek in order to prepare for Speaker responsibilities -Why Sue loves the APTA -And so much more!   Resources: National Association for Parliamentarians  Use the discount Code: LITZY   For more information on Sue: Dr. Griffin has been a physical therapist for more than 30 years. She has practiced in a wide variety of clinical settings throughout that time, and continues to practice in acute- and long-term care. Dr. Griffin has taught ethical coursework for entry-level and post-professional PTs and PTAs at the state and national level.   Examples of Dr. Griffin's accomplishments include:   Elected Speaker of the House of Delegates for the American Physical Therapy Association in 2014. Full-time professor for the Physical Therapist Assistant Program at Blackhawk Technical College in Janesville, WI for more than 20 years. Served on the Ethics Committee for the Wisconsin Physical Therapy Association from 2007-2013. Chaired the Wisconsin Physical Therapy Association Task Force in 2004, when the Wisconsin PT practice act was updated.   Lead instructor in a PTA program, delivering content in a wide variety of clinical areas. Long-term and indepth involvement in clinical education. Licensed doctor of physical therapy with a broad background in many areas, including longterm care, acute and rehab spinal cord, acute head injury, inpatient and outpatient orthopedics and neurology, and amputation. Board certified in geriatrics. Very active member of WPTA and APTA.   For more information on Jenna: Jenna Kantor (co-founder) is a bubbly and energetic girl who was born and raised in Petaluma, California. Growing up, she trained and performed ballet throughout the United States. After earning a BA in Dance and Drama at the University of California, Irvine, she worked professionally in musical theatre for 15+ years with tours, regional theatres, & overseas (www.jennakantor.com) until she found herself ready to move onto a new chapter in her life – a career in Physical Therapy. Jenna is currently in her 3rd year at Columbia University’s Physical Therapy Program. She is also a co-founder of the podcast, “Physiotherapy Performance Perspectives,” has an evidence-based monthly youtube series titled “Injury Prevention for Dancers,” is a NY SSIG Co-Founder, NYPTA Student Conclave 2017 Development Team, works with the NYPTA Greater New York Legislative Task Force and is the NYPTA Public Policy Committee Student Liaison. Jenna aspires to be a physical therapist for amateur and professional performers to help ensure long, healthy careers. To learn more, please check out her website: www.jennafkantor.wixsite.com/jkpt   Read the full transcript below: Jenna Kantor:                00:00                Hello, this is Jenna Kantor with Healthy, Wealthy and Smart. And I'm here with Sue Griffin, which is absolutely incredible. I am just a fan of anyone who is involved with the APTA and really making a change. So would you mind sharing, your the speaker of the House of delegates, would you mind explaining what is that position? I would love to learn. Sue Griffin:                   00:20                Sure. So speaker of the house runs the house of delegates. So the house of delegates is pretty analogous to like a representative body like you'd have in your state legislature, like the assembly. So, every state chapter gets to elect physical therapists as representatives. And it's the number is based on the number of members they have in their chapter. So we have about 400 every year that together and they kind of look like, you know, if you've seen those old convention things like the long tables and the state signs, I mean, that's kind of what it looks like. It's in these huge ballroom. There is a day is, and so up on the day is, that's where I preside from. And so the speaker stands on the day is and runs the meeting and it's incredibly formal because you can't have 400 people like talking over one another. Sue Griffin:                   01:09                It sound like, you know, English parliament or something, which we don't want. So that's the state chapter part. And then we also have all of the sections have a representative, the student assembly sends two representatives, the board of directors are there and the PT Caucus. So they all have representatives. They don't have a vote, but they are able to speak and debate and offer motions and things like that. So that's how our association creates positions and policies. Jenna Kantor:                01:44                So with all these people together, you are leading the meeting? Robert's rules and all. Sue Griffin:                   01:51                Yes, very, very formal. And so we stick to Robert's rules really strictly because otherwise again, like it would be chaos. Jenna Kantor:                02:00                Oh yeah, absolutely. And would you mind explaining what are Robert's rules for those who do not know? Sue Griffin:                   02:06                Everyone knows what. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No. Sue Griffin:                   02:09                So Robert's rules of order is a specific kind of school of parliamentary process. So there are a couple of different schools, but this is probably the most famous. And so there's literally a book that kind of like a thick little mini Bible and it helps you run a meeting. So it has rules about procedure, like who can speak when and if someone brings a motion, in other words, if they want to take action, they present in a very carefully worded format and then there are processes for how people can change or amend that motion so that you can, it's a way for a group to make decisions. Jenna Kantor:                02:47                And it makes it easier for everyone else to follow. Sue Griffin:                   02:50                Right. And the basis is really to protect the voice of the minority and yet still let the majority accomplish their will. Jenna Kantor:                03:00                I love that kind of the whole purpose of it.  And what is the time commitment for your position? Sue Griffin:                   03:05                It varies a little bit, but there's kind of a low level steady level of commitment that's probably five to 10 hours a week because I also serve on the board of directors, so I have to participate on all the board activities as well as manage the house activities. And then like times like this, like pretty much from January through June. So the house of delegates right now is always in June, so pretty much from January to June, or at least CSM to June is when people are really working hard on their motions and we're trying to help them craft them. And so I would say the time commitment is, you know, probably 15 to 20 hours a week. Jenna Kantor:                03:45                That's great. That's great. Well, you're making a big difference, so that makes sense. And then of course as it gets closer, I'm sure it increases. Sue Griffin:                   03:52                It does. I don't know that I'm making a big difference. I think I'm helping everybody make a big difference. Now, I'm going to think I'm trying to just, you know, I'm the facilitator. I'm not the, I'm not the maker. Jenna Kantor:                                        Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So as the facilitator, why do you like this job? Sue Griffin:                                           Oh, it's just great. I mean, first of all, it's just so many passionate and really smart people, you know, coming together and they all have such great intent. I suppose every process like this is political to some extent, but you know, we don't have, everybody is really trying to move and accomplish what they really believe is best for the profession. And I feel like we really have a group that shares common values at a really deep level. And it's just so exciting to see those people come together and be able to accomplish things because physical therapy is the best profession. Right? And so for us to be able to do things that can help us elevate our level of practice, get people to access us better. I mean that's the kinds of things that you know our association is trying to drive to do. And this is, this is a big part of that. This is the driving body in many ways. Jenna Kantor:                04:59                Oh absolutely. That's honestly why I love the APTA personally. So for you, what past experiences greatly contributed for you being able to handle and take on this position? I would love to hear your journey. Sue Griffin:                   05:12                I think a really formative part was when I served as the secretary of our state chapter in Wisconsin and I did that role for four years and you know, secretaries have to take minutes. And so, you know, you're in a meeting with maybe 12 or 15 people and that meeting is not run very strictly on Robert's rules of order. So, you know, there's a lot of discussion, which is really perfectly appropriate. But at some point, you know, I would find myself kind of listening and then I'd say is so is this what you're trying to say? No, I'd take notes and I help people craft motions and they're like, yeah, yeah, that's, that's what I want to say. That's good. So it really helped me learn how to listen to a lot of conversations and try to distill the essence of what people were trying to accomplish. Sue Griffin:                   05:55                And that has served me very well because part of the speaker's role is to serve on a committee called the reference committee, which is a group that helps people guide and craft their emotions in a way that's specific. And so it's really helpful for that, but it's helpful when you're trying to facilitate a group of 400. You have to be able to listen and kind of hear and try to sense where people are going. Cause they kind of know where they want to go. They don't always know how to get there. So I think that really helped. But then, you know, early on I became a member of the National Association of Parliamentarians, which has a lot of great educational resources. So that's how I learned a lot about, more about the intricacies of Robert's rules. And I was really lucky that I got to serve for seven years. Sue Griffin:                   06:39                So I'm from Wisconsin, and Illinois runs a state assembly like New York does. So I served as their parliamentarian for several years. And so, you know, again, I wasn't running the meeting, but I had to understand it. I had to prepare it, it had to help me learn how to anticipate when amendments might be coming, how would you handle them. And so it really taught me a lot about how to prepare for the meeting in a way because you never want to be surprised if you can avoid it. So I would say those are really the main things that helped me prepare for the speaker role in particular. Jenna Kantor:                07:15                I love that because there's not one way. What are other jobs, as obviously from what you got to be part of was helpful, What are other jobs that you would recommend people try to be appropriate for your position? Sue Griffin:                   07:34                I think anytime you can be in a position where you are responsible for facilitating, so certainly, you know, being a chapter president, but even, you know, running a committee meeting. So, I think those are good roles. There's a position on the board of directors called the Vice Speaker of the house. So that person becomes obviously intimately involved. Jenna Kantor:                08:00                So going back to that question, so what jobs, aside from the ones that you just mentioned, would you recommend people could take on in order to be appropriate for your position if they were looking and going, oh, one day I'll be Sue Griffin. Sue Griffin:                   08:19                Well probably one thing I should've mentioned that I didn’t and it's you really need to be a delegate to the house of delegates, right? I mean, I did that for 15 years at least. So they need to be a delegate and that really helps them, I think link into other, I mean, at least to help me link into other opportunities, either at the chapter or section level so that they can kind of figure out their path. But again, being a secretary I think is a really good role. Anything where they have to run a meeting so they could be like even a SIG chair or a, you know, a committee chair. It doesn't have to be president, but certainly being chapter president could help because you obviously have to run meetings. Being on the reference committee is phenomenal. I mean it gives you a great role. And then we also have another position on the board called the Vice Speaker of the house of delegates. And sometimes people who've been in the vice speaker wanted to go to speaker and sometimes they haven't. So I mean it's not obligatory of course. And it's not required to be vice speaker, but those are some other ideas or options I would say. Jenna Kantor:                09:20                Awesome. I love that. And what motivated you to work specifically towards this position? Cause there's a lot of positions that make a great difference in the APTA. So what made you go this is the fit for me. Sue Griffin:                   09:33                Yeah, that's actually the only one I've ever really wanted. And you know, my very first probably hour as delegate, you know, back in 1995, I just was captivated by the formality of the proceedings. I was captivated by how he managed everything and how he really helped people accomplish their work. And that was very appealing to me to be able to help people move forward and accomplish what they wanted to do. Jenna Kantor:                10:01                What is something you have accomplished in this position that makes you so proud? There may be many.  I can see your brain going tick, tick, tick. Oh Gosh, there's a lot. But I would love to hear one or maybe a few that pop in your head. Sue Griffin:                   10:14                Well, it's funny cause you know, I'm a Midwesterner so I can't be proud of myself for anything. You know, I can be proud of other people. Jenna Kantor:                10:21                That counts, that counts. We're all in this together, so I would love to hear that. Sue Griffin:                   10:25                I mean I'm really proud of how the delegates work really hard. Well first of all I guess I’ve been really honored because they really have put a lot of trust in me and so they have allowed me to help them enact procedures and activities that make the house more efficient. And so I'm really proud of how people who've been really entrenched in something that's really formal and very traditional laden had been really willing to change and to take on change and to try different things and procedures to see if we can improve. I feel like the association on the whole is like on the cusp of really bold things and so I'm really proud of being able to help the house as a major decision making body try to also change in ways that are kind of in lock step with that boldness. I'm really proud of all the work the house created for the first time in my knowledge, a special committee to do a complete revision of every single policy position, standard document guideline in our whole association, like 350 documents and they've done this over the course of two years. So I'm really proud of their work and again, how they've really elevated the level of work and function of the house. So that's pretty cool. Jenna Kantor:                11:40                That is. That is, and you've been around for all of it to happen. I love that. What goals are you working towards now or goal that you are working on in your position to just up the ante. Make it even better. Sue Griffin:                   11:52                I think it's just kind of that same thing right? Like trying to continue to move on with that progression, stay in with the boldness, we're all moving into our next century, right. As a profession and as an association. So I think again, you know, people don't come together and meet in the same way that they did 50 years ago and the house is 75 years old this year. That's very exciting. It's got a solid feel. So you know, we don't do these things, obviously nobody works the way they worked even 10 years ago. And people I think think differently and want to interact differently than maybe they did 10 or 20 years ago. Sue Griffin:                   12:38                So in order for the house to be meaningful and be a way for people to make decisions, it has to allow processes that are comfortable to people in that they facilitate the way they're used to working together. Jenna Kantor:                                        Oh yeah, absolutely. Final question. Why do you love the APTA? Sue Griffin:                                           Oh Man. Cause I said, you know, this is the best profession ever. And to be able to come together with a group of like minded, passionate, brilliant people, to be able to, you know, move our profession forward and to get people to access physical therapy who really need it. There's nothing better. Jenna Kantor:                                        Yeah. I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much for coming on and just sharing your passion and also helping people understand not only what you do, but if they want to be the next Sue Griffin, how they could do it. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Sue Griffin:                                           Well, thank you for having me on and everybody should go be a delegate.     Thanks for listening and subscribing to the podcast! Make sure to connect with me on twitter, instagram  and facebook to stay updated on all of the latest!  Show your support for the show by leaving a rating and review on iTunes!  

What's going on fellow nerds and nerdettes!? On this Special episode we decided to try out something different, those of you who utilize Spotify are probably aware that every year they create a playlist for you that captures your most played songs of that entire year. So Robert and Colton decided to take a listen and discuss all the randomness that is Robert's 2017 Spotify Playlist. We have been wanting to do more music based episodes and we thought this would be an interesting way to do one.  Let us know what you think!  Twitter - @TheRemoteContrl Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/190378011081886/ iTunes - https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-remote-control/id1212136108?mt=2 PodBean - http://theremotecontrol.podbean.com/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/bridgingthegeekdoms/support

Robert Kandell is a successful writer, teacher, podcast host and coach. He has helped people build successful and honest relationships through workshops, lectures and live events. Robert understands the challenges that arise when breakups happen and he shares his own breakup stories and the steps he undertook to get back on track.   One of the key strategies that Robert did following his breakup was to learn to be by himself. He started a four-month celibacy, where he did not look for another relationship, rather he looked within and found that he was always looking for validation from his partners. He needed to be right, he needed to know that he was a good man and he was attractive.     With this information Robert started to look for ways to build up his own self-esteem. He had heard a saying that resonated with him that self-esteem is built upon estimable acts. So Robert learned to do things that made him feel good about himself, such as going to the gym and working with a personal trainer, he worked with a therapist and quite sugar.   Robert believes that most of us are taught to withhold the truth, to lie, to sooth other people’s egos. Often the truth is difficult to hear and say to another person, and if your relationship is built on lies and untruths then how can you have an honest and authentic relationship. Truth and open communication is the glue that holds a relationship together.   People hold back or hide some truths from their partner for fear and shame that they could loose their partner. This creates a false foundation because our partner doesn’t really know who we are. You walk around with disguises on rather then telling the truth. You assume their reaction and play out stories in your mind as to their reaction.   When coaching people Roberts tells his clients to tell their partner 100% authentic truth, and if that person chooses to leave them then they were not right for his client and tells them that they will find some one who is good for them. The basis for a successful relationship is telling the truth, being honest and feeling safe in telling that person everything about you. When you do this Its like a weight has been lifted of your shoulders and brings you closer to your partner rather than living in a mediocre relationship   You can find out more about Robert Kandell @ www.tufflove.live and on twitter @robertkandell and his podcast is Tuff Love.

As a parent(1), I think a lot about my children's education(2). Is it good or bad? Is it varied, hands-on(3), relevant? The only way to really(4) find out, is to look at their text books, go to their schools, and talk to their teachers. And then, we have to remember that each person is unique; each has different preferences, ways of learning, and abilities. Some people are comfortable with academics, and others are not(5). Some students are good at taking exams, and others prefer to demonstrate their knowledge in other ways. Recently, my son Robert has been at home with a bad cough. He has been bugging me to buy him an electrical circuit. So, we shopped around until we found the perfect 'kit'(6). It has batteries, a light, a motor that spins, sound devices, and connecting wires. There is also a booklet(7) that gives instructions and warnings, pictures, and general advice. So Robert has spent hours connecting, fiddling(8), and creating, and every minute that goes by he learns something. Play and imagination are great teachers. And learning doesn't necessarily happen on paper, or on a computer screen. When I asked Robert what was so good about his kit, he said, "It's the energy hook-ups(9), and seeing what you can do with them." 1. 'As a parent' this kind of phrase is used with different nouns/titles.  a. As a teacher, I try to understand how my students learn best. b. As a policeman, he tries to be observant. 2. 'I think a lot about my children's education'. This is a good format for other sentences. a. We think a lot about our father's health. b. They think a lot about their safety because they live in Hurricane Valley. c. He thinks a lot about buying land in the future. 3. 'Hands-on' refers to activities that involve touch and manipulation. a. The new children's museum in Spokane is hands-on; the kids can really touch, feel, and play with the displays. b. Babies and toddlers learn most of their lessons in a hands-on way. 4. 'The only way to really +verb..., is to ...' another great format for a sentence. a. The only way to really make money, is to work hard for a long time. b. The only way to really make a point, is to speak intelligently. c. The only way to really understand a culture, is to live in that country. 5. 'Some people are comfortable with academics, and others are not.' In this sentence, the adjective doesnot have to be repeated at the end. a. Some people love chocolate, and others don't. b. Some laws are fair, and others aren't. c. Some people work eight hours a day, and others don't. 6. A 'kit' is usually a set of objects that all fit together or work together for a common purpose. Like Robert's kit, all the parts in the box can be used to build different electrical circuits. a. I bought a kit to build a bird house for the garden. It had wood, nails, glue, and paint. b. My husband always has a tire repair kit with him when he goes biking. 7. A 'booklet' is a small, soft book, similar to a pamphlet but bigger. We usually receive booklets with new appliances for instruction. a. The booklet that came with my new vacuum cleaner is not clear.  b. You need to read the instructions that came in the booklet so you know how to put the drawers together. 8. 'Fiddling' comes from the verb 'to fiddle' which means 'to manipulate with your hands', 'to mess about', and 'to experiment physically with something'. Kids are good 'fiddlers'.  a. Someone has been fiddling with my alarm clock, and now it doesn't work. b. I wish you wouldn't fiddle with my make-up; it's all untidy now. 9. A 'hook-up' is often used generally for a connection of some kind, especially electrical or metallic. a. Where is the hook-up to the power supply? b. We need the correct hook-up to connect the boat to the truck. Join me on FACEBOOK at Anna Fromacupofenglish. Questions and comments? Would you like Skype lessons? Contact me at acupofenglish@hotmail.com. // //