Focus Forward: An Executive Function Podcast

In this episode of Focus Forward, host Hannah Choi interviews Dr. Anastasia Galanopoulos, a developmental psychologist, about the fascinating connection between gut health and brain function. They explore how the gut microbiome communicates with the brain through the vagus nerve and affects everything from mood and sleep to focus and decision-making. The conversation covers signs of gut health imbalances, including digestive issues, irritability, and poor decision-making. Dr. Galanopoulos explains how fermented foods like kimchi, sauerkraut, and yogurt can help restore microbiome diversity, while processed foods and sugar can harm gut health. They discuss the importance of fiber, organic foods, and the Mediterranean diet approach that emphasizes plants, moderate animal protein, and social connection. The episode also touches on how outdoor time in green spaces can benefit those with ADHD and executive function challenges. Throughout the discussion, both hosts acknowledge the economic realities that make accessing healthy foods challenging for many families, while emphasizing that even small changes can make a meaningful difference.

Today we're wrapping up ADHD Awareness Month with something a little different — and a lot of fun. This episode is all about creativity, self-expression, and the power of play in adulthood. We're diving into Expressive Arts Coaching - a unique, creative approach that helps people with or without ADHD strengthen their executive function skills through art, creativity, and imagination.My guest, Shayne Swift, is an Executive Function coach with Beyond Booksmart and she incorporates Expressive Arts Coaching into her practice. She combines her background in education, expertise in executive functioning, and experience and training in creative exploration to help clients unlock insight and self-awareness through the expressive arts. I'm also thrilled to say that we're also joined by Jamal, one of Shayne's clients, who shares how this approach helped him communicate more clearly at work, deepen his relationship with his kids, reduce stress, and rediscover confidence in his own strengths. Jamal also shares how his employer invested in him by paying for Executive Function coaching and how his work experience has improved greatly since then.You'll also get to experience a hands-on activity with Shayne - a fun, colorful reflection exercise designed to help you explore your current EF skills and challenges and walk away with a way to visually see what skills need attention and what skills you know you can rely on.So whether you're following Shayne's prompts and doodling while you listen, out on a walk, or just taking a well-earned break, this is your reminder that even as adults, we can - and should - make space for fun and creativity. And that AdHD brains, as challenging as they can be, do have some pretty awesome things about them. Thanks for tuning in! Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More About Shaynehttps://swiftlyfe.com/about/meet-shayne-swift-ms/Expressive Arts Coachinghttps://www.expressiveartworkshops.com/how-to-start-your-own-art-program/expressive-arts-facilitation-training/https://www.ieata.org/how-to-start-career-expressive-arts/Creativity and Executive Function Skillshttps://www.edutopia.org/blog/strategies-executive-functions-arts-judy-willishttps://digitalcommons.lesley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1725&context=expressive_thesesLearn More About Our Corporate Executive Function Traininghttps://www.worksmartcoaching.com/trainingLearn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Hi everyone! Today we're exploring the connection between ADHD and bullying. Research consistently shows that children with ADHD are more vulnerable to bullying than their neurotypical peers. For instance, a study utilizing data from the National Survey of Children's Health found that 47% of children with ADHD reported being victims of bullying, more than double the prevalence in the general population PMC.This increased susceptibility isn't just a childhood issue—it extends into adolescence and adulthood, affecting self-esteem and mental health. Adolescents with ADHD who experience bullying are at a significantly higher risk for anxiety and depression compared to their peers without ADHD. My guest today, Brooke Schnittman, knows this firsthand. Brooke is an ADHD coach, speaker, and host of the podcast, Successful with ADHD. She works to help adults turn their challenges into strengths. In our conversation, she shares her own story of being bullied from childhood into adulthood, how it shaped her understanding of ADHD, and what helped her begin to rebuild a sense of self-worth.This episode isn't just about surviving bullying - it's about understanding how those experiences shape the brain and the stories we tell ourselves, and how healing becomes possible through awareness, coaching, and connection. I also share some additional strategies - both for parents and adults - that can help build proactive protection and resilience in environments where bullying or exclusion might occur. I hope you enjoy!Here are the show notes: Learn More About Brookehttps://www.coachingwithbrooke.com/about-brookeSuccessfull with ADHD Podcasthttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/successfull-with-adhd/id1674069554Bullying: What Parents and Teachers of Children with ADHD Need to Knowhttps://chadd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/ATTN_06_12_Bullying.pdfBullying Resource Centerhttps://www.aacap.org/aacap/Families_and_Youth/Resource_Centers/Bullying_Resource_Center/Home.aspxHow to Demobilize a Bully in 5 Stepshttps://www.additudemag.com/stop-bullying-adhd-upstander/?srsltid=AfmBOoozI6FRhewOLn8ICHuypgxNjYuz4icT8UfTDNIPcYINmIxqmwt3Put Down the Stick, Pick Up a Feather: Adult ADHD & Self-Criticismhttps://chadd.org/attention-article/put-down-the-stick-pick-up-a-feather-adult-adhd-self-criticism/Learn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Learn More About Dave KraskyWebsitehttps://www.raisingfutureadults.com/Raising Future Adults - his bookhttps://www.raisingfutureadults.com/booksRead more about other topics mentioned in this episodeFAFO Parenting - “F*** Around and Find Out” https://www.parents.com/what-is-fafo-parenting-unpacking-the-trend-11678790Autonomy-Supportive Parenting by Emily Edlynnhttps://www.emilyedlynnphd.com/autonomy-supportive-parentingAge-Appropriate Chores for Kidshttps://www.healthychildren.org/English/family-life/family-dynamics/communication-discipline/Pages/Chores-and-Responsibility.aspxLearn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Believe it or not, this is the last episode of our fourth season of Focus Forward! We normally take off all of August and September, but I just had to get one more episode in. After reviewing the topics & guests we featured this season, I realized there were some key themes that came up again and again across a whole variety of conversations. To wrap the season up, we're reviewing 5 key lessons about personal growth that have been gathered over 20 conversations with experts throughout this past year. Although there are many great pieces of advice waiting for you in today's episode, the most important of all is to remember to unconditionally give compassion to yourself and empathy towards others. We're all a work in progress, but the simple act of trying to do better is a seed for transformation. Hopefully, this episode helps provide the water you've been looking for. I truly hope you've enjoyed and learned from the conversations we've shared with you this season and from my solo episodes. If you've enjoyed listening, please take a second to rate us on Spotify or Apple. I look forward to seeing you again in Season 5! In the meantime, here are the show notes from today's show (as well as the various episode numbers that were referenced throughout it): How AI Helps ADHD Brains Work Smarter, Not Harderhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/how-ai-helps-adhd-brains-work-smarter-not-harderSeason 4 ThemesTheme 1: Understanding Our Own Executive Functioning & NeurodiversityEpisodes 51, 52, 54, 60, 61, 64, 65, 68, and 71.Theme 2: Holistic Well-beingEpisodes 51, 58, 59, 65, 66Theme 3: Strategies for Managing EF ChallengesEpisodes 50, 51, 58, 59, 63, 67, 69Theme 4: Parenting & CommunicationEpisodes 52, 54, 56, 62, 65, 70Theme 5: Self-Advocacy & Personal GrowthSo many episodes (maybe even all of them), and especially episodes 53, 55, 56, 57, 59, 60, 61, 66, 68, 71Many thanks to Season 4 guests (in order of appearance):Archie Chimanayi, Kendra Adachi, Dr. Nerissa Bauer, Dr. David Helfand, Neal Elliott, “The Tidy Dad” Tyler Moore, Dr. John Randolph, Dr. Emily Gordon, Melissa Llewellyn Snider and Brianna Morton from Hypercast Podcast, Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg, Ellen Galinsky, Dr. Megan McClelland, Dr. Sarah Cheyette, Dr. Jackie Wolfman, Sara Sherman and Dr. Mort Sherman, Lizzett Cuervo, Helena Bowen, Eliza, Sam, Mark, and Tyler MitchellLearn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

In today's episode we're diving into the world of ADHD through the lens of Tyler Mitchell. Tyler is a strategy consultant (whatever that is!), a husband, a father of five, and a passionate advocate for awareness around ADHD and the workplace. If you're active on LinkedIn at all, you may have come across Tyler's thoughtful and popular posts. As we all know, adulting is hard enough, but throw in ADHD and it's a whole ‘nother can o' worms. Tyler addresses these challenges with compassion, empathy, honesty, and some humor. In our conversation today, Tyler shares what it was like to be diagnosed with ADHD as an adult, and how that moment shifted and revealed everything for him. He opens up about the emotional side of things and what he's discovered about himself, especially what it's like for men who've spent years pushing through without support or answers. And how he's become someone that other men reach out to for an empathetic ear.Listen to hear us explore themes people need to be talking about: the pervasive stigma surrounding ADHD, the generational pressures that discourage emotional vulnerability, and the powerful impact of understanding one's own neurodivergent brain. Tyler candidly discusses how his diagnosis helped him unravel years of anxiety, depression, and self-doubt, and how he's now using social media to create a supportive community for others. Tyler's story highlights the importance of self-awareness, empathy, and breaking down outdated masculinity stereotypes. His mission is to normalize conversations about ADHD and show that seeking help is a sign of strength, not weakness.Here are the show notes from today's episode;Learn More About Tyler MitchellWebsitehttps://tylermitchell.com/Tyler's LinkedIn Profilehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/tylercmitchell/Learn More About ADHD in MenA Guide for Men With ADHD (and Their Loved Ones)https://add.org/adhd-symptoms-in-men/For Men With ADHD — and Those Who Love Themhttps://www.additudemag.com/adhd-men-relationship-anger-shame-communicationADHD in Adultshttps://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/adhd-what-you-need-to-knowLearn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

In this episode, I had three experts come on the show, but they're not the typical experts I have on Focus Forward. I got to sit down with three incredible teens, Eliza, Mark, and Sam, to talk honestly about conflict and how to manage it between teens and adults. This episode is one I've been wanting to do for so long and I'm thrilled to bring it to you today.We covered everything from communication styles to what it feels like to be misunderstood, and even how trust is built—or broken—in those tricky conversations. And of course, I couldn't not mention EF skills, so you'll hear me comment here and there on how key executive function skills like self-regulation, flexible thinking, and perspective-taking show up in real life and impact us during conflict and resolution. Listen to learn from these teens about the importance of creating space for mistakes and learning, and how trust is the answer - we have to work to trust them and they us. It's a hard journey that we're all making together. These teens were thoughtful, vulnerable, and wise beyond their years. I think you'll walk away with some valuable insight—and maybe even a few moments of, "Oof… yeah, I've done that as a parent or teacher." I know I experienced this multiple times! But, as we've heard Ellen Galinsky, Nerissa Bauer, Ken Gisburg, and others, say, it's never too late to make a difference in how you interact with your kids. Thanks for listening!Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More About Conflict Resolution with TeensFamily Conflict Resolution: 6 Worksheets & Scenarios (+ PDF)https://positivepsychology.com/conflict-resolution-family-kids/Parent-teen conflicts less troublesome when teens feel loved, study showshttps://news.yale.edu/2020/07/14/parent-teen-conflicts-less-troublesome-when-teens-feel-loved-study-showsOther Focus Forward episodes on teen-related topics:Ep 66: From Overwhelmed to Empowered: 4 Essential Coping Skills Every Teen Needs to Thrive (ft. Dr. Jackie Wolfman)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=mj2r59gs2vEp 62: Lighthouse Parenting: How to Communicate, Connect, and Guide with Confidence (ft. Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=v0rl5xa5ubEp 40: The Breakthrough Years: Raising Thriving Teens Through Executive Function (ft. Ellen Galinsky)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=fhebx5zqflEp 54: Self-Regulation Starts with Us: Helping Kids Manage Big Emotions (ft. Nerissa Bauer)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=kqhshzq15xEp 38: Coping with College Stress: How to Meet the Demands of College Life with Confidence (ft. Dr. Bianca Busch)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=baxmpspptjAttend our MAP Demo!July 21 12:00pm ET/9:00am PThttps://beyondbooksmart.zoom.us/j/81330992542Learn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Today's guest is one of my executive function coaching clients, Helena Bowen. Helena is a speaker coach and speechwriter and supports speakers for TED, TEDx, and other major events. She has ADHD and came on the show to share her experience and what she's learned about herself and her brain over the years. We talk about how Helena is learning to move beyond the frustrating and self-critical thought: “I know what to do, so why can't I just do it?” Through coaching and her own experiments and data collection, she's shifting away from viewing her struggles as character flaws—and instead, getting curious about what's really going on.You'll hear Helena describe how she discovered that what looked like task initiation challenges were actually self-regulation challenges - moments of getting stuck while avoiding the difficult emotions that came up when faced with certain tasks. She opens up about the creative and often unexpected strategies that help her follow through - timers everywhere, mood tracking with the How We Feel app, absurdly tiny task breakdowns, and even art supplies and a foundation brush to outsmart her own brain and build systems that actually work for her. Doing things differently is part of being neurodivergent, and Helena rocks it and then some. I'm excited to share this conversation. I'm so proud of Helena and the work she's done for herself in coaching over the last year and a half. I hope you'll see yourself in Helena's story, feel less alone, and maybe even feel brave enough to try something different. I know I have learned a lot from her approach to her EF challenges, so I hope you do, too!Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More About Helena BowenWebsitehttps://www.helenabowen.comInstagram and TikTok@helenaspeakingLearn More about Procrastination and MoreWorld's Leading Expert On How To Solve Procrastination - Dr Tim Pychylhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGIUtVu7w4YStruggle Care Ep. 70: How to Coach Your Executive Functioning with Hannah Choihttps://www.strugglecare.com/podcast-rss/70-how-to-coach-your-executive-functioning-with-hannah-choiEp 11: Procrastination: Why We Wait & What to Do About Ithttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=n2bmc91r6dEp 43: Creativity & Executive Function: How to Enjoy the Brain Benefits of Eachhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=2o3uog9wpoEp 63: Big Tasks, Tiny Steps: A Procrastinator's Guide to Getting Stuff Donehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=ww20vsahvw

I'm so happy to be able to bring this conversation to you today! My guest is Lizzett Cuervo - a first-generation Cuban American, executive function specialist, and co-founder of the nonprofit Circle Match. I first connected with Lizzett over LinkedIn and then we got to meet in person when she attended my presentation on college students and executive functioning at our local public library. Lizzett is such a fantastic person doing such important work that I knew I had to have her on the show. As you'll hear, Lizzett's personal journey through life has moments of discouragement and frustration that many of you may relate to - either directly or in your own way. Her experiences are also deeply inspiring. I know I was very moved by her story. From being told by her high school counselor that she wasn't “smart enough” for college, to later discovering a love of learning and receiving a life-changing ADHD diagnosis in adulthood, Lizzett has used her experiences and this deep love of learning to create a future for herself, her son, and others that is full of hope and opportunity.In this conversation, you'll hear about how Lizzett's own academic struggles lit the spark - hah! for Chispa, a company she started that helps adults and students strengthen their executive function skills and conquer their challenges—and how Circle Match, a non-profit she started with her son, Michael, opens doors to Ivy League and other top tier colleges by offering free college admissions advising and executive function support to students and their families who have historically been left out of those spaces. Lizzett is living proof of what happens when young people are given not only access and knowledge, but also a place to belong. This is a story about overcoming shame, challenging broken systems, being brave enough to do things differently, and creating something better for the next generation. I can't wait for you to hear it. Show notes: Learn More About Lizzett and Her Workhttps://chispaefc.com/Circle Matchhttps://circlematch.org/Other ResourcesFocus Forward Ep 32: College Admissions Made Simple: An Executive Function Approach to Success in Collegehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=q38ax8pzj7Making College Affordable: 5 Tips for Securing Scholarshipshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/making-college-affordable-5-tips-for-securing-scholarshipsHow to Navigate Student Supports in Collegehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/how-to-navigate-student-supports-in-college

Okay, so this week we're talking about one of the most powerful tools we have out there for our focus, our mental health, our community, our families, our children, ourselves - music! We don't even realize how much music plays a role in our lives. And luckily, gone are the days of believing we must work in sterile, silent environments - many (or dare I say most?) brains, including those with ADHD and other EF challenges, truly benefit from some kind of stimulation while doing focused work. The power of music has been studied by researchers so if you'd like to learn more, I've shared some articles in the show notes. But one of the best resources I can recommend is a new book out called Resonant Minds. Written by a daughter and father pair, Sara and Mort Sherman, this book covers all aspects of music - from its impact on the brain and learning, including as a mindfulness practice or as Sara and Mort call it “mindful action”, to its positive impact on individuals and community. I sat down with Sara and Mort to learn about music and share stories about how music has impacted us and others and about, as Sara and Mort say, that music is ultimately about love. Sara and Mort are so uniquely qualified to write this book so I asked them to introduce themselves, and the book Resonant Minds is such a unique book that I knew it was only right for them to describe it, so let's get on with the show!Here are the show notes from today's episode:Learn More About Sara Shermanhttps://mozartformunchkins.com/Learn More About Morthttps://my.aasa.org/AASA/Resources/SAMag/Sep16/InsideSherman.aspxResonant Minds bookhttps://mozartformunchkins.com/resonant-minds-the-transformative-power-of-music-one-note-at-a-time/https://www.resonantminds.comResearch on Music and the BrainMelody for the Mind: Enhancing Mood, Motivation, Concentration, and Learning through Music Listening in the Classroomhttps://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/20592043231214085Keep Your Brain Young with Musichttps://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/keep-your-brain-young-with-musicThe transformative power of music: Insights into neuroplasticity, health, and diseasehttps://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10765015/The Youth Orchestra Hannah mentioned: https://gctyo.org/Learn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

This week, we're revisiting a topic & conversion that I've been thinking about a lot lately. I had the opportunity to speak to the public at our local library about Executive Function skills for four different age groups, ranging from early elementary students to adults. In all four groups, we talked a lot about the importance of self-regulation and coping skills to get through challenging times. As we learned from Megan McClelland in the last episode, our ability to persist through challenges is hugely important, even as early as age four. This episode brings our attention specifically to our upper high school students, college students, and young adults. The challenges that teens and young adults face during those years bring all kinds of emotional and logistical hurdles, and having a set of reliable coping tools can make a huge difference in how successful and grounded young people feel during that time.To explore this further, I spoke with Dr. Jackie Wolfman, a therapist based in the Boston area. She teaches her clients coping strategies through DBT—or dialectical behavior therapy. If you're familiar with CBT, or cognitive behavior therapy, DBT is a related approach that also focuses on how our thoughts and behaviors interact. CBT helps people notice and challenge unhelpful thought patterns, while DBT adds tools specifically for managing intense emotions and building practical coping skills. The tools and strategies Jackie shares from DBT are for everyone, regardless of age or mental health needs, so I know that this episode will truly be useful to anyone. I even use these strategies myself!Thank you for listening! Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More About Dr. Jackie Wolfman and DBThttps://villagepsych.com/DBT® Skills Training Handouts and Worksheets, Second Edition, by Marsha Linehanhttps://www.guilford.com/books/DBT-Skills-Training-Handouts-and-Worksheets/Marsha-Linehan/9781572307810Dialectical Behavior Therapyhttps://dialecticalbehaviortherapy.com/What Is Dialectical Behavior Therapy for Adolescents - A helpful YouTube videohttps://youtu.be/Stz--d17ID4Other Resources MentionedAnd Then They Stopped Talking to Me: Making Sense of Middle School by Judith Warnerhttps://www.amazon.com/Then-They-Stopped-Talking-Me/dp/1101905883Meditations for Mortals by Oliver Burkemanhttps://www.oliverburkeman.com/meditationsformortalsLearn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Have you heard the saying “research is me-search”? It means people often explore topics they personally need or want to understand better. Well, that's exactly what today's episode is for me. I've had migraines since I was a teenager, and after being diagnosed with ADHD a couple of years ago, I started noticing how closely the two seem to be connected. Conversations with clients, colleagues, and other people I know showed me that I'm not alone. It seems like many people who have ADHD also deal with migraines. I started researching to find out if there is a connection between migraines and ADHD, and it turns out, there is! I connected with Dr. Sarah Cheyette to learn more. Dr. Cheyette is a pediatric neurologist who specializes in both ADHD and migraines. Dr. Cheyette graduated from Princeton University and received her medical degree at UCLA. Following specialty training in pediatrics at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles and in pediatric neurology at Seattle Children's Hospital, she practiced at Palo Alto Medical Foundation. She now owns a private practice in northern California. Today, she brings her insight into how these two conditions overlap. In our conversation, we talk about what migraines are, why migraines happen, how they're triggered, and—most importantly—what we can actually do about them - both to prevent and treat. Dr. Cheyette shares strategies for tracking headaches, making small but meaningful lifestyle changes, how to make sure you're doing the right things and taking the right meds to manage these debilitating headaches. Whether you live with both ADHD and migraines, or you're supporting someone who does, I hope you'll find this episode informative and validating. I have shared some articles and research studies in the show Show notes:Learn More About Dr. Sarah Cheyettehttps://sarahcheyette.com/Migraines and ADHDThe Connection Between Migraine and ADHDhttps://www.migrainedisorders.org/migraine-and-adhd/Migraines and ADHD: The Overlooked Connection to Headacheshttps://www.additudemag.com/migraines-and-adhd-headaches-symptoms-treatmentsThe Connection Between ADHD and Migraineshttps://chadd.org/adhd-weekly/the-connection-between-adhd-and-migraines/Comorbidity of migraine with ADHD in adultshttps://bmcneurol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12883-018-1149-6ADHD Is Comorbid to Migraine in Childhood: A Population-Based Studyhttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28587507/Learn More About Our MAP Programhttps://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-works

Today's episode is one I'm especially excited to share with you. Whether you're an Executive Function expert or you're just starting out learning about these essential life skills, you'll want to listen because we have not one but *two* Executive Function leaders featured.First up, I'm so happy to have been joined once again by the OG of Executive Function awareness, Ellen Galinsky, who sat down with me on Focus Forward in March of 2024 when her book, The Breakthrough Years, came out. Ellen is the President of the Families and Work Institute and the elected President of the Work and Family Researchers Network (WFRN). She also serves as senior research advisor to AASA, the School Superintendent Organization. Previously, she was the Chief Science Officer at the Bezos Family Foundation and faculty at Bank Street College. Her research has focused on the impact of work-life on families, child and adolescent development, youth voice, child-care, parent-professional relationship, and parental development. Ellen's work has contributed deeply to how we understand children's learning and development - and how we, as adults, can nurture it. Our second Executive Function leader is Dr. Megan McClelland, an internationally recognized expert on school readiness and self-regulation in very young children. She is the Katherine E. Smith Professor of Human Development and Family Sciences at Oregon State University, where she also directs the Hallie E. Ford Center for Healthy Children and Families. Megan's research focuses on optimizing children's development, especially as it relates to children's self-regulation, early learning, and school success. Her recent work has examined links between self-regulation and long-term outcomes from early childhood to adulthood and intervention efforts to improve these skills in young children. She is currently involved with multiple national and international projects to develop measures of self-regulation and improve school success in young children. Megan is also the co-author of Stop, Think, Act, a book all about how we as educators and parents can help our kids strengthen their EF skills through play.Today, you'll hear us talk about why executive function skills matter and how we can help kids strengthen them through everyday activities - Megan and Ellen help parents and educators see that we learn when we play! Whether you're a parent, educator, or just someone who cares about kids' success in the long run, this episode is full of insights you won't want to miss.I hope you enjoy listening! Here are the show notes from the episode: Learn More About Ellen GalinskyEllen Galinsky's Websitewww.ellengalinsky.comThe Breakthrough Yearshttps://ellengalinsky.com/the-breakthrough-years/Mind in the Makinghttps://www.mindinthemaking.org/Families and Work Institutehttps://www.familiesandwork.org/Learn More About Megan McClelland, PhD.https://health.oregonstate.edu/directory/megan-mcclellandStop, Think, Act by Megan McClelland and Shauna Tomineyhttps://www.amazon.com/Stop-Think-Act-Integrating-Self-Regulation/dp/0415745233Executive Function ResourcesVroomwww.vroom.orgInstitute for Education Sciences: "Preparing Young Children for School" - A research-based guide with specific tips and activities for educators.https://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/practiceguide/30Focus Forward Ep 23: Parenting for Success: How to Nurture Executive Function Development in Early Childhoodhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=rgbq6nrrvfFocus Forward Ep 26: Navigating Stress, Parenting, and the Brain: A Conversation with Dr. Alison Royhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=oygnbqkqqq

In today's quick 15-minute episode, we're exploring strategies for breaking down large tasks into manageable steps - a crucial skill for enhancing productivity and reducing overwhelm. From brain bumping to chunking, learn new practical techniques that are designed to help initiate tasks, reduce decision paralysis, and maintain momentum. These methods are particularly helpful for anyone with ADHD, executive dysfunction, or anyone who finds getting started challenging. By implementing these approaches, you'll hopefully be able to transform those daunting projects into many small steps that will lead to action and confidence. As always, thank you for being part of the Focus Forward community! If you enjoy this episode, be sure to leave us a 5-star rating on the platform you're listening on ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Here are the show notes from this episode (lots of useful links and tools!)STM ToolGoogle Docs version (will force you to create a copy)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WAabo_q7Zg61Ns-A8KkXVYmvq9eXhQUlnSoiHWk5HYM/copyWant an Excel version? Email me and I'll send you one!Focus Forward Episodes Mentioned in this EpisodeEp 11: Procrastination: Why We Wait & What to Do About Ithttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=n2bmc91r6dEp 14: 4 Steps to Build Time Management Strategies You'll Use for Lifehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=2hd9mmw2wiEp 21: Rethinking Your Thinking: How Cognitive Flexibility Can Improve Your Life and Relationshipshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=mdpox3lokqEp 43: Creativity & Executive Function: How to Enjoy the Brain Benefits of Eachhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=2o3uog9wpoEp 58: Routines Without Rigidity: Your Guide to Building & Sustaining Healthier Habitshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=jhszcaaccpEp 62: Lighthouse Parenting: How to Communicate, Connect, and Guide with Confidence (ft. Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=v0rl5xa5ubOnline and AI ToolsUniversity of Toronto Assignment Plannerhttps://utsc.library.utoronto.ca/assignment-planner (shared by Beyond BookSmart coach, Kerrie Welch)Goblin.toolsLearn More About Our MAP ProgramMorning accountability sessions for planning, skill-building workshops, and work sprints for maximum support and accountability! All for a low monthly fee.https://map.worksmartcoaching.comLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksGet in Touch:podcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Today, I am so excited to share this conversation I had with Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg. If you are a parent, a caregiver, an educator, a coach, a therapist, a human who interacts with children, young and old, this episode is for you. We all have something to learn from Dr. Ginsburg's insightful and engaging interpretation of these decades of research on what works in parenting. Dr. Ginsburg practices adolescent medicine at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and is a professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania, a founding director of the Center for Parent and Teen Communication, the Director of Health Services at Covenant House Pennsylvania, an agency that serves Philadelphia's youth enduring homelessness and a father of two young adults. This vast experience and deep passion for supporting children of all ages and their families, in my opinion, makes him the perfect lighthouse for us as we navigate the sometimes murky or stormy waters of raising our own children and supporting the children of others around us.You'll hear Dr. Ginsburg and I speak highly of Ellen Galinsky who was a guest on Focus Forward and who wrote the highly acclaimed books Mind in the Making and The Breakthrough Years, all about EF skills in children and adolescents. If you're interested in learning more about Ellen's work, check out the show notes and Focus Forward episode #40, which coincidentally dropped exactly a year ago this week. Ellen will be joining me again in a few weeks to talk more about Executive Function skills with early childhood development researcher, Megan McClelland. In the meantime, thank you for listening! Show Notes: Learn More About 1:1 Coaching https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksLearn More About Dr. Ginsburghttps://www.fosteringresilience.comCenter for Parent and Teen Communicationhttps://parentandteen.com/Ellen Galinsky's bookshttps://ellengalinsky.com/

As a person with ADHD or Executive Function challenges it can often feel like society - you know, people at work, in our homes, anyone we encounter during our day, expects you to think, work, and communicate the same way as everyone else. It can be exhausting and can often require that you advocate for yourself and your needs more than you would like! And the first step of advocacy is figuring out what exactly it even is that you need! In this episode, I'm joined by Melissa Llewellyn Snider and Brianna Morton, ADHD coaches and co-hosts of The Hypercast ADHD Podcast.Together, we explored the power of self-acceptance because, as they say, it is truly the foundation for building strong and effective self-advocacy skills. We discussed the challenges of setting boundaries, navigating dynamics at work and in our personal lives, and learning to communicate our needs—without guilt or apology. We talked about the importance of having people around you who GET YOU. And, most importantly, we'll talk about embracing our differences rather than masking them, because, as Brianna shared, you're not a weird horse—you're a perfectly normal zebra.Show notes: Learn More About Our Guests:Hypercast: An ADHD Podcastwww.hypercastpod.comMelissa Llewellyn Snyderhttps://www.likemindcoaching.com/Brianna Mortonhttps://www.understandingadhd.ca/More about Self-Advocacy: Read & ListenEp. 39: Speaking Up: How to Empower Our Kids to Advocate for Themselves (ft. Dr. Nerissa Bauer)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=j5rz3vnbkpFrom Failing to Thriving: ADHD Strategies Every College Student Needshttps://hypercastpod.buzzsprout.com/2328723/episodes/16524660-from-failing-to-thriving-adhd-strategies-every-college-student-needsTalking to Teachers: Building Self-Advocacy in College Students - Beyond BookSmart Bloghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/talking-to-teachers-building-self-advocacy-in-college-studentsSelf-Advocacy Can Improve Your Lifehttps://chadd.org/adhd-weekly/self-advocacy-can-improve-your-life/

Today's episode is especially important for people to find - we're covering the topic of eating disorders - it's a tough one but so important to talk about as eating disorders are so much more than you may realize. Beyond simply affecting what someone does or doesn't eat, they also impact brain function, emotional regulation, and the other critically important executive functioning skills we use every day like impulse control, focus, and decision-making.To help us understand these challenges, I sat down with Dr. Emily Gordon, a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in adolescents and young adults, with expertise in eating disorders, body image, and parenting. Dr. Gordon has worked in clinical leadership roles at McLean Hospital. She helped launch the Klarman Center for Eating Disorders and now runs a private practice in Massachusetts. She's also a parent of three teenagers.So listen today to learn from Dr. Gordon as she teaches us about the different types of eating disorders, their impact on executive functioning, and the early warning signs parents should look out for. If you're a parent navigating these challenges, you're not alone. Supporting a child through something like this can be overwhelming, and I've seen in my own experience that many families find that the addition of executive function coaching helps bring structure and support in times of stress. If you're curious to learn more about how we help, you can visit our website at beyond booksmart.comShow Notes Learn More About Dr. Emily GordonWebsite:www.dremilygordon.comInstagram: @dremilygordonLinkedInwww.linkedin.com/dremilygordonSubscribe to her newsletter:dr-emily-gordon.kit.com/podcastLearn More About Eating DisordersWhat are Eating Disorders?https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/eating-disorders/what-are-eating-disordersNational Eating Disorders Associationhttps://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/resource-center/Executive dysfunction in eating disorders: Relationship with clinical featureshttps://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36181959/Exploring the Relationship Between Disordered Eating and Executive Function in a Non-Clinical Samplehttps://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0031512520937569Get in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

In today's episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Dr. John Randolph - a board-certified clinical neuropsychologist, brain health consultant, and Clinical Assistant Professor of Psychiatry at Dartmouth's Geisel School of Medicine. He's the past president of both the National Academy of Neuropsychology and the New Hampshire Psychological Association, and his research focuses on cognitive health, executive functioning, and resilience. He's also the author of The Brain Health Book: Using the Power of Neuroscience to Improve Your Life.In our conversation, Dr. Randolph breaks down the CAPE model—a simple and powerful way to think about and take care of our brain health. We talked about cognitive strategies, activity engagement, preventing cognitive problems, and education about our brains. And, how small, consistent actions can make a big difference in our long-term brain health. We also discuss the impact of sleep, exercise, and social connections, which was validating for me as this is what I always like to ask my clients about. Dr. Randolph also shares a little about the research he's doing with people with multiple sclerosis to figure out how to improve cognitive resilience. Our brains are fascinating, so listen today to learn how we can extend and enrich our lives by taking care of them!Show NotesLearn More About Dr. John Randolphhttps://www.randolphnp.com/about-dr-john-randolphThe Brain Health Book: Using the Power of Neuroscience to Improve Your Lifehttps://wwnorton.com/books/978039371287212 ways to keep your brain younghttps://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/12-ways-to-keep-your-brain-youngBuild Better Work Habits: How Your Brain Changes with Practicehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/build-better-work-habits-how-your-brain-changes-with-practiceThe Quiz My Colleague Used With Her Clienthttps://www.viacharacter.org/account/registerLearn More About 1:1 Coachinghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksLearn More about BrainTracks Teacher Professional Developmentwww.braintracks.comGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

In this week's episode, we're talking all about routines. If you've ever tried to make a lasting change in your life, then you know how hard sustaining new habits can actually be. However, there are proven strategies that you can use to solidify habits into routines. In this short episode, I'll be sharing some of my favorite practical strategies for building and sustaining routines.Thorugh the science of behavior change, you'll discover new ways to build healthier habits through small changes that snowball into bigger transformations over time. Most importantly, my hope is that you find some practical approaches to build routines that work for you (even when life changes or gets stressful!) Have thoughts or questions? Feel free to send me an email at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comI hope you enjoy listening! Here are the show notes for today's episode: Show notes:Ep 12: How to Maintain Progress Through Times of Changehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=p9nb11s6hxEp 57: Decluttering Your Life: How to Make Space for What Matters (ft. Tidy Dad, Tyler Moore)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=pcr8a1lkgbAtomic Habitswww.jamesclear.com/books11 Personal Hygiene Tips for People With ADHDhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/11-personal-hygiene-tips-for-people-with-adhdTime for Bed! Why Sleep is Essential for Executive Functioninghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/time-for-bed-why-sleep-is-essential-for-executive-functioningOn-Demand Webinar on Building Healthy Routineshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/building-healthy-routines-webinar-on-demand-recordingTips from Calm.comhttps://www.calm.com/blog/daily-routine

Today, I'm joined by the one and only Tyler Moore, AKA “Tidy Dad.” Tyler is a New York City Public School teacher, a husband, and a father of three. He creates content based on his own experience with tidying that he hopes will help others find joy and order in what he calls, “the beautiful mess of life”. Tyler came on to Focus Forward to share his new book, Tidy Up Your Life, which was just released this month! The book is a deep dive into the connection between physical and mental clutter and how our ability to organize, prioritize, and adapt can shape the way we live. Tyler and I also explored how embracing uncertainty and the “messy middle” of change, pivoting when necessary, and experimenting with routines can lead to powerful shifts in both mindset and priorities. He also explained the thinking behind his step-by-step approach to maintaining our homes —starting with organizing, followed by tidying, and then cleaning. In his book, he expands his ideas on this by offering cleaning and tidying options that are thoughtful, simple, and accessible for each area of the house.Tyler was fun to talk with and I hope you enjoy our conversation and learn a lot from him! Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More About TylerWebsitewww.thetidydad.comInstagramwww.instagram.com/tidydadTidy Up Your Lifehttps://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/751698/tidy-up-your-life-by-tyler-moore/From the Beyond BookSmart BlogGetting Organized: Minimizing Clutter In 4 Easy Steps - Beyond BookSmart Bloghttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/getting-organized-minimizing-clutter-in-4-easy-stepsGaining Calm by Organizing: How to Clear Your Space & Mindhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/meditation-in-organization-how-to-clear-your-space-mind7 Tips for Organizing With ADHD: How to Organize Betterhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/7-tips-for-organizing-with-adhd-how-to-organize-betterGet in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

Happy holidays, everyone! It's such a special time of year and I'm grateful to all of you for choosing to spend some of it with us here at Focus Forward! Don't forget to check out Beyond BookSmart's New Year's discount on our new monthly coaching subscription, which offers 2 of our 45-minute one to one coaching sessions per month for a more accessible price of $252. You have the choice to add more sessions if you need additional support. You can find more information in the show notes or by going to our website, beyondbooksmart.com. Still have questions? Shoot me an email at podcast@beyondbooksmart.com and I can help you out!Parenting, much like coaching, is a journey full of questions, challenges, and opportunities for growth—both for our children and ourselves. How do we guide without pushing, encourage independence while offering support, and foster resilience in a world full of pressures? Ooof, it's a lot of work. Today, I'm joined by Neal Elliott, a parent and veteran coach at Beyond BookSmart who has been coaching since our company's inception in 2006, and whose wisdom has shaped countless lives. I asked Neal to join me to share three stories about coaching. The stories he chose highlight the importance of trust, relevance in learning, and meaningful parent-child relationships. You'll hear about a student who improved his algebra skills by connecting math to Minecraft, a long-term client who rebuilt confidence through trust, and a special in-person coaching moment from our pre-virtual coaching days.Neal's stories inspired our conversation and led us to talk about building trust, encouraging progress (even the smallest steps), and reframing failure as a vital learning opportunity. Whether you're navigating the teen years or guiding a younger child, I hope Neal's stories and wisdom will inspire reflection and offer some support for the road ahead. And be sure to check the show notes for Neal's curated collection of books and other resources he wants to share with Focus Forward listeners. Neal knows what he's talking about and he's created a treasure trove, people! Show Notes: Neal Elliott's Resource Listhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/14vTPW7F2IrCF8CDwKp8xTEXMSt5NsR0xiPG5i6boDxE/edit?usp=drive_linkLearn more about Beyond BookSmart's 1:1 Coaching Programhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-it-worksSee our current coaching subscription prices (discounted through January 5, 2025!)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/contact-us

Something I love about executive function skills is that when you host a podcast all about them, you will literally never run out of topics because EF skills impact every aspect of our lives. In today's episode, we're talking about romantic relationships and executive functioning. I'm joined by Dr. David Helfand, a licensed psychologist specializing in neurofeedback and couples therapy. Dr. H, as he goes by with his patients, shared how executive functioning impacts relationships, particularly for couples navigating the impact of stress, trauma, and neurodivergence. I was so happy to also be joined by my podcast team—Sean Potts, our editor and producer, and Justice Abbott, our creative visionary. We got to dig deep into how to make our relationships healthier by improving our communication, emotional regulation, and intimacy. Whether you're looking to strengthen your relationship or support a partner with executive function challenges, this episode is packed with insights to help you move forward together. Just a note if you're listening with children around - we briefly and non-graphically mention sex, as this often an important aspect of romantic relationships. Some of the questions we covered today were submitted by our listeners. If you want to be part of the conversation, be sure to sign up for our subscriber newsletter and follow Beyond BookSmart on our social media channels.Episode 55 - Dr. David Helfand - couples and EFLearn More About Dr. David Helfandhttps://www.lifewisevt.com/david-helfand-psyd/https://marriagequest.org/dr-david-helfand-psyd/https://marriagequest.org/marriage-retreat/Further ReadingWhy You Should Stop Rescuing Your Partner (and what to do instead)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/why-you-should-stop-rescuing-your-partner-and-what-to-do-insteadRelationships & How ADHD and Executive Function can impact themhttps://sethperler.com/%F0%9F%A7%A0-relationships-how-adhd-and-executive-function-can-impact-them/The Impact of ADHD on Marriagehttps://guilfordjournals.com/doi/abs/10.1521/adhd.10.3.9.20553?journalCode=adhdEffects of adult ADHD on intimate partnershipshttps://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10522158.2023.2165585Get in Touchpodcast@beyondbooksmart.comInstagram/Facebook/Tiktok: @beyondbooksmartcoachingwww.beyondbooksmart.com

In today's episode, we're diving into a topic that's so important for families navigating the ups and downs of childhood and parenting: behavioral and Executive Function challenges in kids.I had the pleasure of inviting back to Focus Forward the wonderful Dr. Nerissa Bauer, a developmental pediatrician with a wealth of knowledge and compassion for helping families thrive. Nerissa has been a great partner with us at Beyond BookSmart and I'm so happy to be able to share her wisdom with you all again. Listen today to hear us explore the messages behind children's behaviors, the connection between emotional regulation and executive function, and how parents and caregivers can approach challenges with curiosity, collaboration, and love. Dr. Bauer shared invaluable insights, from understanding the “why” behind behaviors to the power of the pause and how we can model self-regulation for ourselves and for our kids. Be sure to check the show notes after you listen to learn more about Nerissa's work.Learn More About Dr. Nerissa BauerYouTube Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/@NerissaBauerMDLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/nerissa-bauer-md-mph-faap-4b692967/Let's Talk Kids' Healthhttps://www.letstalkkidshealth.org/Teach Me ADHD Virtual Courses for Parents and Kidshttps://www.letstalkkidshealth.org/virtual-coursesEp 39: Speaking Up: How to Empower Our Kids to Advocate for Themselves (ft. Dr. Nerissa Bauer)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=j5rz3vnbkpEmotional Regulation ResourcesEmotional Regulation as a Kid Can Be Challenging: These 7 Activities May Helphttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/7-activities-to-help-your-child-with-emotional-regulationHow Beyond BookSmart Supports Students with Emotional Regulation Challengeshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/how-we-help/stress-managementEmotional Regulation and Executive Function Skills: A Powerful Linkhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/emotional-regulation-and-executive-function-skills-a-powerful-linkHow Can We Help Kids With Self-Regulation? - The Child Mind Institutehttps://childmind.org/article/can-help-kids-self-regulation/Co-regulation: Helping children and teens navigate big emotions - Harvard Health Publishinghttps://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/co-regulation-helping-children-and-teens-navigate-big-emotions-202404033030

Ah, I'm so excited about this one! In today's episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with the one and only Kendra Adachi - popular author, podcast host, and creator of “The Lazy Genius” approach. Kendra offers a refreshing perspective on using and trusting our executive function strengths and supporting ourselves where we face challenges. Her method encourages us to be "geniuses" about what matters while allowing ourselves to let go of what doesn't. Throughout our conversation, we dive into Kendra's new book, "The Plan," which brings a compassionate twist to time management. We also explore the impact of small, intentional changes, trusting ourselves, and how to push back against pressure to “always do more.” Kendra also breaks down her five-step Lazy Genius Method for tackling big projects: prioritizing, essentializing, organizing, personalizing, and systemizing. Kendra's insights remind us that we can find real contentment by honoring what truly serves us, trusting our instincts, and embracing the season we're in. I hope you enjoy listening and walk away feeling as inspired as I did! Show notes: Learn More About Kendra Adachi and The Lazy Genius: https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/The Plan - a book all about compassionate time management: https://www.thelazygeniuscollective.com/theplanKendra on Instagram: @thelazygeniusLearn more about Beyond BookSmart: https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/

It's no secret that parenting a child with ADHD can be overwhelming at times. However, with the right mindset and support, it can also be fulfilling and inspiring. In this week's episode of Focus Forward, I sat down with Archie Chimanayi, an ADHD professional who offers assessment, treatment, and management of ADHD, Autism, Depression and Anxiety for children and adults. Beyond his expertise, Archie also has a son who has ADHD and autism, which means he has a unique perspective of a professional and a parent of a child with a diagnosis that impacts Executive Functioning. I was lucky enough to be a guest on Archie's “ADHD Care” podcast back in May of 2024 and left the conversation knowing that he would be a perfect guest for the Focus Forward audience. The format of this episode is a little different than our usual interview format. I'll be playing three short clips from our original chat. After each clip, I'll share some of our recent conversation where we went beyond what we covered initially, bringing in fresh insights and more detailed discussion to help you as a parent, caretaker, or professional. From knowing what to look for, navigating the feelings that can come up after a diagnosis, and understanding the importance of self-care for men—this episode is about taking a closer look at the challenges and opportunities that come with raising a child with ADHD. I hope you enjoy the conversation!Here are the show notes from the episode:Learn More About Archie ChimanayiADHD Care, Ltd.https://www.adhdcare.co.uk/?p=aboutArchie's Video Tour of Exhibit Hall: ADHD Conference in Baltimore (2023)https://youtu.be/cHahKPTxf8A?feature=sharedEpisode 61 - Navigating ADHD: Parenting, Podcasting, and Personal Insights with Hannah Choihttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/episode-61-navigating-adhd-parenting-podcasting-and-personal-insights-with-hannah-choi--60147752Episode 69 - Focus Forward Podcast Feature with Hannah Choihttps://www.spreaker.com/episode/episode-69-focus-forward-podcast-feature-with-hannah-choi--62388901Other resources mentionedMen with ADHD Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mensadhdsupportgroup/ADDitude Adults with ADHD Facebook Grouphttps://www.facebook.com/groups/additudemag/

Hi everyone! We're right in the middle of ADHD Awareness Month, and to celebrate, we're bringing back one of our all-time favorite episodes with a twist. Today, we look at what makes ADHD brains tick, explore both medication and non-medication strategies, and talk about how pairing these with executive function tools can build confidence in people with ADHD. We also give tips for those of you who are exploring a potential ADHD diagnosis for yourself or your child. This episode also includes voices from a number of people with ADHD who graciously recorded their thoughts to share with us. Trust me, you'll want to stick around until the end, because we have the most adorable voice you've ever heard, sharing their experience with ADHD—I can't wait for you to hear it! Show notes: Episode 51 - Re-release of ADHD episodeADHD FundamentalsADHD Success Kit by Beyond BookSmarthttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/adhd-success-kit-2022Fact Sheet: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) Topicshttp://www.russellbarkley.org/factsheets/adhd-facts.pdfBeyond BookSmart's ADHD Webinarhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/on-demand-webinar-registration-adhd-fundamentalsADHD BrainsHow Does ADHD Affect The Brain?https://www.healthline.com/health/adhd/the-brains-structure-and-functionADHD & the Brainhttps://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/ADHD_and_the_Brain-121.aspx2-Minute Neuroscience: ADHDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8JnDhp83gAThe Default Mode Network, Motivation, and Attentionhttps://www.labschool.org/news/stories/default-mode-network-motivation-and-attentionADHD Neuroscience 101https://www.additudemag.com/adhd-neuroscience-101ADHD and GenderADHD in girls and boys – gender differences in co-existing symptoms and executive function measureshttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3827008/The Intersection of ADHD and Gender Diversity - Mental Health Therapy, Psychotherapy, Counseling, Coaching, Psychiatry Blog Post By Holly Mileshttps://www.inclusivetherapists.com/blog/the-intersection-of-adhd-and-gender-diversityA Review of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Women and Girls: Uncovering This Hidden Diagnosis - PMChttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4195638/ADHD and Gender Identity: How They're Linked and Tips for Parentshttps://psychcentral.com/adhd/people-with-adhd-more-likely-to-question-gender-identityADHD Diagnosis SupportHow to Get an ADHD Diagnosis - Child Mind Institutehttps://childmind.org/article/how-to-get-an-adhd-diagnosis/Diagnosis of ADHD | CDChttps://www.cdc.gov/adhd/diagnosis/ADHD Symptom ManagementThe Exercise Prescription for ADHD https://chadd.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/ATTN_06_12_Exercise.pdfWhat Should You Treat First: ADHD or Mental Health Challenges?https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/what-should-you-treat-first-adhd-or-mental-health-challengesCognitive-Behavioral Therapy - CHADDhttps://chadd.org/for-adults/cognitive-behavioral-therapy/Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for ADHD: Techniques and Optionshttps://psychcentral.com/adhd/cognitive-behavioral-therapy-for-adhdNon-drug treatments for adult ADHD - Harvard Healthhttps://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/non-drug-treatments-for-adult-adhd

Long time no see! Welcome back to season 4 of Focus Forward AND our 50th episode of the podcast. We're so happy you're here with us as we begin the best season yet. Today's episode topic was chosen based on research we've gathered about people interested in coaching. According to our questionnaire, planning & prioritizing is the #1 Executive Function skill that students and adults alike are currently struggling with. In this episode, I'll be sharing some of our favorite tools and strategies to help you or someone you love buiild this critical skill. Show notes: Executive Functioning and Positive Outcomes for ChildrenExecutive Function & Self-Regulationhttps://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/executive-function/Executive Function Skills Predict Children's Success in Life and in Schoolhttps://www.mindinthemaking.org/stories/executive-function-skills-predict-childrens-success-in-life-and-in-schoolEllen Galinsky's books on EF and children and adolescentsThe Breakthrough Yearshttps://ellengalinsky.com/the-breakthrough-years/Mind in the Makinghttps://www.mindinthemaking.org/Focus Forward Episodes MentionedEp. 40: The Breakthrough Years: Raising Thriving Teens Through Executive Function (ft. Ellen Galinsky)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=fhebx5zqflEp. 14: 4 Steps to Build Time Management Strategies You'll Use for Lifehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=2hd9mmw2wiEp. 25: Laziness vs. Executive Dysfunction: Expert Tips to Help Motivate Your Kidshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=e5k6nv0wteExecutive Function for Teachers and Classroomswww.braintracks.com7 Classroom Management Strategies That Teach Students Executive Function Skillshttps://www.braintracks.com/blog-posts/7-classroom-management-strategies-that-teach-students-executive-function-skills

Today's episode is just for us parents during this back to school time. As you already know, supporting the people we love comes more easily when we feel good about ourselves. However, when things get busy and our energy drains, it's easy to forget about taking care of ourselves. With the return to school providing plenty of chaos for us parents, now is the perfect time to prepare and make sure you're ready to not only support your kids, but also yourself. So today, we're exploring five key Executive Function areas that will really support you during this time and give you some tips and strategies in each area. Even if you can't realistically do all of the things I cover, pick one - just one - that you're going to commit to doing. Make observations over the next few weeks - what was hard? What was easy? Did it make a difference? Is there something else you can add? (This reflection is an Executive Function exercise in and of itself!) Show Notes:Register for our Back-to-School Webinar on August 14https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/back-to-school-relief-2024Watch Our Past Webinarshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/workshops-and-eventsFocus Forward Episodes MentionedEp 44: Ask the Coaches: Answering Your Top Questions about Summer, Motivation, Transitions, and more!https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=z1tfw9hl2aEp 11: Procrastination: Why We Wait & What to Do About Ithttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=n2bmc91r6dEp 42: Insomnia, ADHD, and Sleep Hygiene: How to Transform Your Life Through Better Sleep (ft. Marlee Boyle)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=rpuckdh0f5Other ResourcesCovey Quadrants/Eisenhower Matrix (Hannah's version)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bzg9nObT0HbK5EjK2s7bBW3deSRzstAVA_v_VEX71zY/edit?usp=sharingClutterBugwww.clutterbug.me

Today's episode is a conversation I had with Dr. Deborah Korn, a licensed clinical psychologist with over 30 years of experience treating trauma with EMDR therapy. If you haven't heard of EMDR before, you're in for a treat because this therapy technique is pretty mind-blowing. From our conversation, you'll learn what EMDR therapy is, how it works, and who might be a good candidate for this innovative intervention for coping with trauma (spoiler alert: you don't need to have had a big traumatic experience to benefit from EMDR!) Best of all, Dr. Korn shared some inspiring and heartwarming stories about people whose lives have been changed for the better (or maybe even saved) by EMDR therapy. I hope you enjoy the episode!Show notesLearn more about Dr. Kornhttps://www.everymemorydeservesrespect.com/about-deborah-korn-psydEvery Memory Deserves Respect Bookhttps://www.everymemorydeservesrespect.com/bookLearn More About EMDREMDR International Associationhttps://www.emdria.org/about-emdr-therapy/EMDR Institutehttps://www.emdr.com/what-is-emdr/

Today's episode is all about obsessive-compulsive disorder or OCD. I met up with Dr. Anthony Bram, a clinical psychologist in Lexington, Massachusetts to learn more about this fascinating brain-based condition. Dr. Bram works with adults and kids, providing support for a wide range of mental health challenges, including OCD, anxiety, depression, and learning differences. He explained to me that he became interested in helping people with OCD during his predoctoral internship. He realized that the traditional kinds of psychotherapy that he had been learning were not so effective in alleviating the distressing symptoms of his patients with OCD. This led him to discover a specialized form of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) called exposure with response prevention (ERP). Dr. Bram continued to learn more during his postdoctoral work at the Menninger Clinic, which was in Topeka, KS at the time. There, while primarily pursuing advanced training in traditional modalities of treatment and assessment, he also sought the supervision of a cognitive behavioral therapist who specialized in OCD so he could begin learning and applying ERP and other CBT techniques. This experience taught him the importance of being flexible and expanding his therapeutic skills to better meet the diverse needs of his clients. I'm so happy to bring Dr. Bram on so we can all learn about OCD, its connection to executive functioning, and how to support people in our lives who may be struggling with it and its related challenges. Enjoy! Show notes: Learn more about Dr. Bramhttp://www.dranthonybram.com/Learn more about OCDhttps://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/obsessive-compulsive-disorder-ocdhttps://iocdf.org/about-ocd/OCD activity in the prefrontal cortex (image)https://drive.google.com/file/d/1x6W41yZhcbsnf4ZJ9qCY1R8J4-_jv0sl/view?usp=sharingFind a Providerhttps://iocdf.org/find-help/?_provider_proximity=42.3600825%2C-71.0588801%2C50%2CBoston%252C%2520MA%252C%2520USA

Okay, so this week is a tasty episode! I invited Becca King, a registered dietitian and social media influencer with nearly 200k followers, to join me on Focus Forward to talk about food, ADHD, and Executive Function as the three are more interconnected than you might think. We talk about many aspects of food and cooking - how to lower or get rid of barriers that may prevent us from cooking or eating nourishing food, meal planning and how to make it work for you and how it may change as your life situation changes. We also talked about the importance of crunch (haha!), finding satisfaction in the food we eat, and how to remove the guilt or shame we might feel when we don't cook or eat how we feel like we “should”. Becca follows an “all foods fit” approach to nutrition and really helps people get to a place where they can nourish themselves with nutrient-dense foods and eat the fun stuff, too. Thanks for listening and be sure to check out Becca's instagram and resources in the show notes below!Show NotesLearn more about Becca KingInstagram: www.instagram.com/adhd.nutritionistBecca's Tips for Remembering to Eat: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Os3jH51Y-7BwNQdn7zSntTzj1b2FBswP/view?usp=drive_linkBecca's Sensory Descriptors to help understand your sensory preferences with food: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gjbDnVhwDIvYbodCGtu7tGB0vbWS60aU/view?usp=drive_linkADHD and FoodExecutive Dysfunction 101: How to Treat ADHD's Most Difficult Symptom: https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/executive-dysfunction-101-how-to-treat-adhds-most-difficult-symptom#howtotreatEDADHD Diet For Adults: Foods To Eat And Avoid:https://add.org/adhd-diet/Nutrition in the Management of ADHD: A Review of Recent Research:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10444659/Nutrition and ADHD: https://chadd.org/about-adhd/nutrition-and-adhd/

As Executive Function coaches, we often talk about how working on Executive Function skills is really an act of building self-confidence. Learning to be confident in yourself and believing you can get through the hard stuff is the key to trying new things, reaching your goals, and truly making a lasting difference in all areas of life. We work hard to build this confidence in our clients, just as my guest today does with his college students. James Sanders the third is a professor of public speaking and interpersonal communication at Fayetteville Technical Community College in North Carolina. He joined me to share how teaching public speaking has shown him how students can truly blossom when they step outside of their comfort zone. I'll let him tell you more about the work he does, but this man is making positive change happen wherever he goes. We talked about the importance of community, of trusting yourself, and saying yes to the scary things that are a stepping stone towards reaching your goals. In addition to being interesting to talk to and an inspiring ray of sunshine,

Hi everyone! Today we're having another Q&A with some of our amazing Executive Function coaches. Together, we answer your top questions pertaining to summer support, motivation, transitions, and so much more! Our last coach Q&A episode was in December and became our second most listened to episode of all time - so we figured why not do it again? The three Beyond BookSmart coaches I met with this time are Vin Kachurik, Cass Estey, and Maria Ares. If you've attended any of our free webinars, you may recognize a few of their voices. Although many of the questions we answered were about high school and college life, the tools and strategies we discuss can be used by anyone at any age. So tune in and get some support for the inevitable transitions and challenges that we all face at this time of year! And when you're done listening, be sure to check out the show notes for some links to more resources and deeper dives into some of the tools we talked about today.Webinar: Finishing Strong: Executive Function Solutions for End-of-Year Successhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/finishing-strong-executive-function-solutions-for-end-of-school-year-successJames Clear (Atomic Habits) Resourceshttps://jamesclear.com/eisenhower-boxhttps://jamesclear.com/atomic-habitsCovey Quadrants Explainedhttps://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/covey-time-management-matrixHow to Increase Motivation With ADHD: 10 Tips From Treatment Expertshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/how-to-increase-motivation-with-adhd-10-tips-from-expertsSpoon Theory Explainedhttps://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/80/20 College Splithttps://drive.google.com/file/d/198Yao_AjXR8KwBxUoRu8IGGIQIgg0wAa/view?usp=drive_linkCollege Readiness Skills Listhttps://drive.google.com/file/d/125bkdoLNuBA-3qagORblx7ICSBBVGm74/view?usp=sharingA Day in the Life of a Sumo Wrestlerhttps://web-japan.org/kidsweb/virtual/sumo/sumo04.html

Today we're talking all about creativity. You may have already known that Executive Function skills benefit our creativity, but what you might know is that creative hobbies can actually have huge benefits for the development of our Executive Functioning. In this episode, we explore this symbiotic relationship so you can learn how to enjoy the brain benefits of both creativity and Executive Function. The full episode is now available to stream on all your favorite podcast platforms (linked above!)As always, thank you for being part of the Focus Forward community! If you enjoy this episode, be sure to leave us a 5-star rating on the platform you're listening on ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Here are the show notes from today's episode: Benefits of Creative HobbiesAssociation of Enjoyable Leisure Activities With Psychological and Physical Well-Being: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2863117/Crafts as serious hobbies: Impact and benefits in later life: https://intellectdiscover.com/content/journals/10.1386/crre.9.1.93_1Window of ToleranceWhat Is the Window of Tolerance, and Why Is It So Important: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/making-the-whole-beautiful/202205/what-is-the-window-tolerance-and-why-is-it-so-importantHow to Help Your Clients Understand Their Window of Tolerance: https://www.nicabm.com/trauma-how-to-help-your-clients-understand-their-window-of-tolerance/Managing PerfectionismConquering Failure: Expert Tips for Building a More Resilient Life: https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/overcoming-procrastination-webinar-on-demand-registration-0Focus Forward Ep 11: Procrastination: Why We Wait & What to Do About It: https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=n2bmc91r6dThe Perils of Handmade Perfectionism: https://luvliness.net/2024/02/the-perils-of-handmade-perfectionism/5 Teachings From The Japanese Wabi Sabi Philosophy That Can Drastically Improve Your Life: https://www.omaritani.com/blog/wabi-sabi-philosophy-teachingsCreative Hobbies and Executive FunctionDirections Practice: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zIOa53QyoJkx98mhLCluX2NGNgZ4iXN-ag2hW-gHUL0/editSewing with Threads Podcast - Sewing and Neurodiversity: https://www.threadsmagazine.com/2024/04/03/sewing-and-neurodiversity-with-hannah-choi-episode-76Learn more about Hannah and Bonnie (Bonnah Co Fiber Arts): https://www.bonnahco.com and https://www.instagram.com/bonnahcofiberarts

Hi everyone! Today we're talking about sleep. I met with Marlee Boyle, a respiratory therapist and sleep specialist in Nova Scotia, Canada. Marlee co-owns a sleep clinic and specializes in helping people with ADHD improve their sleep. This episode is one that you'll want to listen to because we all should, as Marlee says, “start with sleep”. You'll also learn about sleep apnea and how important it is to address this, differences in circadian rhythms and what to do about them, how cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I) can help, and how to support kids who have difficulty sleeping. As always, thank you for listening! Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More about Marlee Boylehttps://www.sleep-works.com/Sleep Works' Favorite Sleep Toolshttps://www.sleep-works.com/amazon-storeMarlee's Venn diagram of Sleep and ADHD symptomshttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1P9Q9KHzCNe7_ej0J9EwbwWPYa9SWykTb/view?usp=sharingSleep ResourcesCDC Sleep Resourceshttps://www.cdc.gov/sleep/resources.htmlSleep Resources from MIThttps://health.mit.edu/community/sleepADHD and Sleephttps://www.sleepfoundation.org/mental-health/adhd-and-sleepEp. 41 of Focus Forward - Dr. Olivardia shares some information about sleep apnea and his own experience with ADHD and sleephttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=mfbk3q8d60ADHD and Sleep Problems: This is Why You're Always Tiredhttps://www.additudemag.com/adhd-sleep-disturbances-symptoms/

Today's conversation explores a really important topic - the occurrence of ADHD with other diagnoses, also known as comorbidities. If you aren't sure if this topic applies to you, I encourage you to listen anyway because you might end up learning something that could truly, truly help yourself or someone you love in ways you never expected. I learned so much from my guest, Dr. Roberto Olivardia, who is a clinical psychologist and lecturer at Harvard Medical School. I met Roberto at the ADHD conference in Baltimore last year and was excited to get him on Focus Forward. He's just a wealth of knowledge and super interesting to talk to. Roberto and I started out exploring the comorbidities that can occur with ADHD, such as OCD, anxiety, depression, and bipolar disorder. Our conversation led us to sleep and sleep apnea and eating disorders in boys and men and the connection to ADHD here, too. This important connection is not talked about or studied as much as it needs to be. Thank you for listening and I hope our conversation resonates with you or someone you love.Show NotesLearn More About Dr. Roberto OlivardiaRoberto Olivardia's profile: https://www.mcleanhospital.org/profile/roberto-olivardiaMcLean Hospital's Free Mental Health Webinars: https://www.mcleanhospital.org/video-series/mental-health-webinarsFacing Insecurities With Body Dysmorphic Disorder - webinar hosted by Roberto: https://www.mcleanhospital.org/video/facing-insecurities-body-dysmorphic-disorderThe Adonis Complex: How to Identify, Treat and Prevent Body Obsession in Men and Boys: https://www.amazon.com/Adonis-Complex-Identify-Prevent-Obsession/dp/068486911X/Roberto Olivardia on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=roberto+olivardiaLearn More about the Connection between ADHD and Other DiagnosesWhat Is Complex ADHD? Symptoms, Diagnosis & Treatment by Theresa Cerulli, MD:https://www.additudemag.com/complex-adhd-symptoms-diagnosis-treatment/Not Just ADHD? Helping Children with Multiple Concerns: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/features/not-just-adhd.htmlAre Eating Disorders Related to Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4777329/Is obstructive sleep apnea associated with ADHD? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21808754/

Hi everyone! It's a special day for us here at Focus Forward. Today marks our 40th episode, just days ahead of our two-year podcast anniversary. I want to thank our amazing team at Beyond BookSmart and of course, you, our listeners. It means so much to us to know that so many are finding the work that we are doing here at Focus Forward helpful.Today's episode is also really special because I had the ultimate privilege and joy of getting to sit down with Ellen Galinsky. Ellen is the OG of researching and writing about Executive Function skills, parenthood, and child development. In addition to being the author of many books, she also founded the Families and Work Institute along with many other life accomplishments you can read about in her bio. You may have heard of or read her book “Mind in the Making” which explores seven life skills young kids need to thrive - and these life skills are Executive Function skills! In her books, she takes the brilliant work done by researchers all over the world and writes about it in a way that we non-researchers can understand and use in our lives. She's done the same in her new book, The Breakthrough Years, which comes out in a couple of weeks on March 26. The Breakthrough Years teaches us more than just how to help our teenagers thrive, it helps us understand them. As you'll hear Ellen explain, she asked teenagers what they want people to know about them and the messages that teens want us adults to hear make up the five chapters of the book. So tune in and learn how to help raise thriving teens through a deep knowledge of what drives them and through the application of Executive Function strategies. Learn More About Ellen GalinskyEllen Galinsky's Websitehttps://www.ellengalinsky.comThe Breakthrough Yearshttps://ellengalinsky.com/the-breakthrough-years/Mind in the Makinghttps://www.mindinthemaking.org/Families and Work Institutehttps://www.familiesandwork.org/Other Parenting Resources I've Been Loving LatelyLisa Damour's books and "Ask Lisa" podcastAliza Pressman's book and "Raising Good Humans" podcastNever Enough by Jennifer Breheny WallaceAdam Grant's books and “Rethinking” podcast (not parenting-focused, but still very much applicable!)Kenneth Ginsburg's book, Congrats - You're Having a Teen! Contact Us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoaching

Today's episode covers a topic that's close to my heart - both as a parent and an Executive Function coach. We'll be talking about self-advocacy for kids and adolescents with Dr. Nerissa Bauer, a behavioral pediatrician from Indiana whom I met through my colleague Wendy Craven. Nerissa and I got to meet in person at the ADHD conference in 2023, which was just so much fun that I had to bring her onto Focus Forward! Together, we explored the importance of emotional literacy, which empowers kids to recognize and express their feelings effectively. We also discussed how kids, especially those facing learning challenges or other diagnoses, can learn to advocate for themselves. You'll hear Dr. Bauer share invaluable insights and actionable tips for parents and caregivers of all ages, from toddlers to high school seniors. I hope you enjoy listening to our conversation as much as I enjoyed being a part of it! Here are the show notes from today's episode: Learn More About Dr. Nerissa BauerYouTube Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/@NerissaBauerMDLinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/nerissa-bauer-md-mph-faap-4b692967/Let's Talk Kids' Healthhttps://www.letstalkkidshealth.org/Teach Me ADHD Virtual Course for Parents and Kidshttps://www.letstalkkidshealth.org/teach-me-adhd-sales-page-general-registrationSelf-Advocacy Resources6 tips for helping your grade-schooler learn to self-advocatehttps://www.understood.org/en/articles/6-tips-for-helping-your-grade-schooler-learn-to-self-advocateThe Importance of Self-Advocacyhttps://www.understood.org/en/articles/the-importance-of-self-advocacyGetting Students on the Road to Self-Advocacyhttps://www.edutopia.org/article/getting-students-road-self-advocacy/Self-Advocacy for College Studentshttps://www.ldonline.org/ld-topics/self-esteem-stress-management/self-advocacy-college-studentsEmotional LiteracyMarc Brackett, PhD talks emotional literacy with Brene Brownhttps://brenebrown.com/podcast/dr-marc-brackett-and-brene-on-permission-to-feel/Emotional Knowing and Emotional Literacyhttps://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/envy/202209/emotional-knowing-and-emotional-literacyDeveloping Emotional Literacy Across the Grade Levelshttps://www.edutopia.org/article/developing-emotional-literacy-across-grade-levels/

Hi everyone! In today's episode, I sat down with Dr. Bianca Busch to talk about college students, their experiences adjusting to college, and how they can take care of their mental health. Dr. Busch is a psychiatrist in the Dallas, TX area and also the founder and CEO of The College Psychiatrists, an organization dedicated to supporting the mental health needs of college students.We explored topics such as the importance of emotion regulation - always a fave of mine, learning to recognize and manage feelings of overwhelm, and the role of friends and other support networks in promoting mental well-being in college students. As we know, the college experience is not just about academics as students must learn how to balance classroom demands with healthy social relationships. With a compassionate approach, which really resonated with me, Dr. Bush offered guidance on fostering resilience and building a foundation for success both in college and after graduation. Listen to learn from her knowledge and experience as she shares her insights into the unique challenges that college students face today.Here are some relevant resources from today's episode: Learn More About Dr. Bianca Buschhttps://www.drbiancabusch.com/https://www.collegepsychiatrist.com/https://www.instagram.com/collegepsychiatrist/Overwhelmed by College? Here's How to Regain Controlhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/overwhelmed-by-college-heres-how-to-regain-controlFreshman Social Jitters? 5 Tips to Making Friends in Collegehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/freshman-social-jitters-5-tips-to-making-friends-in-collegeWhat College Students Struggle with Most (and what you can do to help)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/what-college-students-struggle-with-most-and-what-you-can-do-to-helpBefore Heading to College, Make a Mental Health Checklisthttps://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/08/well/mind/mental-health-college-students.htmlTwo Keys to Helping College Students Feel Like They Belonghttps://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/two_keys_to_helping_college_students_feel_like_they_belon

This week's episode is focused on something that is both widespread and completely misunderstood - imposter syndrome. After all, there's nothing inherently wrong with people who feel like imposters. It's not a syndrome - especially to the degree to which the term “syndrome” is appropriate. In reality, the more accurate name is something more like “imposter phenomenon, which is actually a term coined by the original researchers on this subject, Pauline Clance and Suzanne Imes, in their initial papers. Regardless of what you want to call it, feeling like an imposter who doesn't deserve the success they've experienced or the position they're in is all too common in today's world. Left unchecked, feeling like an imposter can grow beyond self-doubt and prevent us from feeling fulfilled or confident in all areas of our lives. Luckily, my guest today is Dr. Nicole Pulliam - aka the perfect person to help you overcome your self-doubt! I was connected with Nicole through a colleague of mine, Allison Larthey, who saw her speak at the Women's Leadership Summit in NJ in the fall of 2023. After having the pleasure of speaking with her for this episode, I now know why she was so impressed by Nicole's presentation. Tune in to hear our conversation about how to manage feeling like an imposter, the impact of it on our lives, and what you can do to better support yourself and those around you. Here are the show notes for today's episode: Learn More About Dr. Nicole Pulliamhttps://www.realandworthyllc.com/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbSFe0FumnkLearn more about Imposter (or Impostor, both are right) PhenomenonThe Imposter Phenomenon in High Achieving Women: Dynamics and Therapeutic Intervention - Clance and Imeshttps://www.womeninanesthesiology.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/ip_high_achieving_women.pdfImposterism, Perfectionism, and Burnout – A Toxic Triad - Dr. Tracey Markshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BMSsKWJ8gsStop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndromehttps://hbr.org/2021/02/stop-telling-women-they-have-imposter-syndromeFeeling Like an Impostor Is Not a Syndromehttps://slate.com/business/2016/04/is-impostor-syndrome-real-and-does-it-affect-women-more-than-men.htmlIt's Not 'Impostor Syndrome' When You're Black and Womanhttps://watercoolerconvos.com/2016/04/20/its-not-impostor-syndrome-when-youre-black-and-woman/Dealing with Imposter Syndrome (ADHD Storytime from How to ADHD)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6wbCf0gNSwThe Connection Between ADHD and Imposter Syndrome | Psychology Todayhttps://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/on-your-way-with-adhd/202302/the-connection-between-adhd-and-imposter-syndrome

Could we really have a podcast called “Focus Forward” without eventually covering the topic of attention and focus? Of course not! Rest assured, today's the day, and as a person with ADHD, difficulty paying attention is one of the most frustrating aspects of my brain. Most annoyingly, I seem to notice just about everything that's happening around me but still end up missing so much of what's actually important for me to remember. Luckily, I now know that this is simply a feature of my ADHD, but for most of my life, I thought it was some inherent character flaw. Can you relate to that struggle, too? Well, then this episode is for you. Today, we explore the critical Executive Function skill of attention and examine some of the most effective strategies for supporting focus in people of all learning profiles. I hope you enjoy and gain some valuable ideas to try out in your own life! If you do, be sure to leave us a review (and let me know at podcast@beyondbooksmart.com!)In the meantime, here are our show notes for today's episode: Impact of Meditation on the BrainMindfulness Meditation Is Related to Long-Lasting Changes in Hippocampal Functional Topology during Resting State: A Magnetoencephalography Studyhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6312586/When science meets mindfulnesshttps://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2018/04/harvard-researchers-study-how-mindfulness-may-change-the-brain-in-depressed-patients/7 Ways Meditation Can Actually Change The Brainhttps://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2015/02/09/7-ways-meditation-can-actually-change-the-brain/Myth of MultitaskingDan Crenshaw's YouTube Video - Try the Myth of Multitasking Exercise!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eQyfirx2HAPsychology and Neuroscience Blow Up the Myth of Effective Multitaskinghttps://www.inc.com/scott-mautz/psychology-and-neuroscience-blow-up-the-myth-of-effective-multitasking.htmlStop Multitasking. No, Really — Just Stop It.https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/29/opinion/do-one-thing-at-a-time-management.html?unlocked_article_code=1.NE0.5X_B.EppCuwbpn7YE&smid=url-shareContact Us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscriptSpace CadetAirheadDaydreamerAbsent-Minded ProfessorDitzyScatterbrainedShe's got her Head in the CloudsDreamerAny of those names sound familiar to you? I can feel my own gut reaction to saying them aloud just now and know that I have either been called them by others or called myself them inside my head. As a person with attention and memory challenges, it's bound to happen that I forget stuff or neglect to pay attention to stuff I really should notice. And, ironically and very annoyingly, I seem to notice literally everything going on around me and at the same time, not notice the important stuff when it's really, really important for me to do so. Now I know that this is a feature of my ADHD, but for most of my life, I thought it was just a character flaw. Can anyone relate to that, too? Well, today's episode is about the EF skill of attention, which as you may know already, is tightly connected to the EF skill of memory. They're like best friends and worst enemies at the same time. Frenemies, as they kids say, wait how long has that word been around? Do people still say it? Am I dating myself by saying it or making myself seem cooler than I really am. Lemme look this up MAKE TYPING NOISE Okay, I just did a quick google search and “frenemy” was first used in 1953! It's often attributed to Jessica Mitford, Queen of the Muckrakers and notorious Civil Rights lawyer who wrote in her 1977 book “Decca: The Letters of Jessica Mitford” saying that her sister came up with the word. Wait, what's a muckraker…hold on. Ahh, wait, okay, Hannah pay attention and get back to the episode at hand. We can learn about muckrakers later on.Okay yes, so, the connection between memory and attention. When I interviewed Dr. Sherrie All for episode 16 of Focus forward, which was all about memory, she said this: memory is like the storage of information that gets into your brain. Right? That attention is the gateway, you cannot expect yourself to remember things that you didn't notice in the first place. So, if you struggle with remembering stuff, it might be worth an investigation into your attention EF skill. That's what we're going to do today. We'll take a look at how inattention can impact our lives and what we can to do set ourselves up for success. I'll teach you some tools and strategies our coaches like to share with our clients and I'll also spend a little time debunking the myth of multitasking. Sorry folks, it's not a thing. At least, not for most of us. Before we dive in, I want to talk briefly about the connection between EF skills and our emotions. As you have heard me say before and I'll say again and again, our emotions are connected to our executive functioning. If we're stressed, having trouble regulating our emotions, or in a crisis, our EF skills may be, will likely be, harder to access, especially the ones that we struggle with in regular times. So, if you find it hard to pay attention and your memory is anything like mine, go easy on yourself, especially in challenging times. Improving your attention can help with remembering more but the reality is that some people will still have challenges with memory, even if they are fully paying attention. Have some grace, some compassion for yourself. Listening to this episode, learning some strategies, and taking the time to learn and care for yourself is a good way to do this. Okay, so other than the direct impact on memory, how else can inattention impact our lives? Inattention can lead us to overlook important details. This can look like not noticing a negative sign in a math problem, missing a payment to the dentist, entering a wrong number on our taxes or maybe not even paying our taxes at all, missing a meeting with the boss, or putting the waistband on a pair of pants backward. That last one was me. I love to sew clothing and I did that once. Wait, I actually did it twice. In the same day. I noticed that I had put the waistband on backward and then unstitched it all, which if you've ever unstitched something, you know how tedious it is and then I did it AGAIN. So, inattention can have some real consequences on our grades, our finances, our time, and our self-esteem. It can also have a severe effect on our health and safety. In the kitchen, it can result in injuries or fires, while driving it could potentially lead to fatal accidents, while playing sports, we could hurt ourselves or others. We could miss cues our bodies are giving us and unintentionally delay treatment for a health condition. We could miss dangers in our environment, like when I walked head-on into a guy wire. The guy wire was fine. My knee was not. Wait a second. Is it guy wire or guide wire? I've always said guy wire but maybe it's guide wire? Hold on…wait wait wait back to the episode, you can research that later, Hannah.Anyway, there are a ton of other situations I'm sure you can imagine or pull up from your own life experience. The message here is that attention is a critically important, time-saving - and potentially life-saving - EF skill to work on. So, it's good you're here.So, how can we set ourselves up for success? There are a bunch of things we can do to increase our attention and reduce the chance of all that bad stuff I probably just depressed you with from happening. There's hope, folks, there's hope. And a lot of the things we can do are pretty simple. Of course, you actually have to do them, which is the hard part but let's all give it our best shot.First one is a magic trick. At least, for me, it seems to be a magic trick. It's to slow down. Just slow down. It's that simple. And yet, sooooooo hard to remember to do in the moment. But, really, slowing down can make a world of difference for your attention ability. When we rush, we're more likely to miss things. Just this morning, my son was leaving for school and had to be there earlier than normal and had to bring some extra stuff with him. He rushed out the door and 30 minutes later, we got a call from him that he forgot the extra stuff. If he had slowed down, he would have noticed the bag we had oh so thoughtfully left right by the door. And earlier this week, I rushed to send an email to a large mailing list and then my colleague pointed out that I had forgotten to include the link I referenced in the email. In the moment, it feels like slowing down will waste time, but you can see in these two examples, we ended up having to use more time later to fix the consequences of rushing. It can help to repeat a mantra of “slow down” or “take your time”. Slowing down does not come naturally to many people and can take some time to build it into your life. But I think it's a goal worth working towards because it helps us be more proactive and less reactive.This reminds me of that quote by Viktor Frankl: “Between the stimulus and response, there is a space. And in that space lies our freedom and power to choose our responses. In our response lies our growth and our freedom”Slowing down allows us to expand that space and take advantage of the many benefits of this kind of thinking. Okay, this naturally leads me to the next tip for improving our attention - mindfulness and meditation practice. I've talked about this before on Focus Forward and you've likely heard about it before. Studies have shown that meditation and mindfulness do actually strengthen our ability to pay attention, focus on what we're doing, and, as you might expect, remember things. You can find links in the show notes if you'd like to learn more. When we meditate regularly, we strengthen the areas of our brain that support attention and focus. The prefrontal cortex actually changes structurally! And, meditation can lower your stress levels, which as you know, will make it easier to access your executive functions. As we learned from Rachel Hulstein-Lowe in episode 12 about maintaining progress during times of transition, mindfulness doesn't have to be anything fancy. Just taking the time to pay attention to the things we do regularly, to slow down and notice what we're doing and the sensations we're feeling. But, if you're interested in a more comprehensive meditation practice, there are so many amazing resources out there in the form of apps, websites, and books. You could check out your local library, gym, and yoga studio to see if they offer meditation classes. If you are skeptical, rely on the science to convince yourself to try it. Your attention will thank you!Okay, next up is something we always hear and probably just go “yeah, yeah, yeah” about. Sleep. Prioritizing it is critical for a bajillion reasons and attention is one of the most important ones. I'm going to be interviewing sleep and ADHD specialist, Marlee Boyle and our conversation will drop sometime in April. We met the other day and I asked her for her top five tips for maximizing our sleep quality. 1) Keep a regular wake up time. Sleep regularity improves sleep quality and helps us fall asleep at a regular time. Even if you have a poor night's sleep, still wake up at the same time to prevent throwing off your sleep schedule for multiple nights2) Try not to stay in bed while you're awake. If you're awake for more than 20 minutes in your bed, try getting out of bed for 20 minutes and do something boring in low lighting until you feel sleepy and then return to bed.3) Get outside in the morning and take breaks outside as much as you can when you're not sleeping well. Sunlight is a strong regulator of sleep so by getting daylight exposure (even on overcast days) will improve your circadian rhythm and help you sleep. And, I just want to add to Marlee's tip here that if you work at night and sleep during the day, installing blackout curtains, using a white or brown noise machine to minimize sounds that might wake you, and using a sunrise lamp for waking might help improve your sleep.4) Don't stress about not sleeping. If you're having difficulty sleeping, try not to let yourself worry about it because that will keep you awake longer. 5) Limit caffeine to just the morning time and use it strategically, rather than habitually. Okay, that's enough for sleep. Try to get more, okay? and come back in April to learn even more from Marlee.Next up are two quick tips I like to teach my clients. Breaking large tasks down into smaller, more manageable steps and paying attention to diminishing returns. I've covered both of these in other episodes so I won't get into them too deeply, but just a reminder that these two strategies can have a huge impact on your ability to pay attention. Okay, so first let's quickly look at breaking things down. When the steps of a project are smaller and clearly defined, it's easier to pay attention to the task. We are less distracted by worries about how long it'll take or how hard it'll be, the requirements of the task are clear to us, and we know there will be a stopping point relatively soon. Slowing down before you start a large task and breaking it down into these smaller steps will give you so much relief down the road. My second tip is to pay attention to diminishing returns - is your effort giving you an equal amount of productivity in return? Instead of setting a timer when you're going to do work, try paying attention to how you're engaging with the work. Are you finding it easy to focus? Keep going! Is your mind wandering and you can't focus? Maybe it's time to do something else or employ some other kind of strategy to support your focus. I recognize that many listeners may rely on urgency to get things done, so this strategy may not work for you. If that's you, you might benefit from the procrastination episode I did - it's episode 11 - awww, back when we were just a baby podcast.I had a college student client who did poorly on a test in an astronomy class. He got half the questions wrong even though he paid attention in class and studied well. When we took a look at what he did during class, he mentioned that he was listening to the instructor but he wasn't taking notes and was only relying on her handouts, slides, and the text for studying materials. He decided he'd try taking notes for the second half of the semester. He got only one question wrong on the final and reported that he truly understood and remembered the material in a way he had never before. Not only did he have more resources to use when he studied for the final, he was fully engaged in the class and because of that, found it more interesting and easier to pay attention. When we engage ourselves in what we're doing, we're less likely to be bored and distracted and we're more likely to remember what we did. This same strategy can be used in a variety of situations - taking notes in a work meeting is likely to help you remember what the heck your boss said, asking questions during a boring conversation with your grandmother might make it more interesting, and taking notes in a class you find boring might trick your brain into actually learning something. Granted, I know this can be a Herculean task when it's a topic you're completely not interested in, but I do think it's worth a try. And you never know, you might find out that astronomy is your jam! Like, did you know that a majority of stars we see are actually binary stars? It's not one star, but two stars orbiting around a common center of mass. Amazing!Ack, okay back to the topic at hand, Hannah - pay attention! Now, let's explore another tool for focus, and this one might not be for everyone: listening to music. Surprisingly, for some, it can enhance attention during focused work, as long as it's the right kind of music. Studies support this, even though it might spark disagreement among parents.Many find lo-fi music ideal for studying. I usually listen to mellow tunes in a foreign language to avoid getting distracted by the lyrics. If music doesn't work for you, be honest with yourself. It can be tempting to listen anyway, even if you know it's detrimental to your ability to focus. Instead, consider brown or white noise to minimize distracting background sounds. Finding what works best for you is key to making potentially mundane tasks more manageable.You might be wondering why I haven't delved into how phones can wreck our attention.I kinda feel like I don't have to. We all know they're distracting, and it's a tough battle to win. Pretty much everything on that phone is designed to leave you wanting more. Instead, let's explore how we can use our phones to help us with attention. Planning apps, to-do lists, and reminders help us focus and break down tasks. Apps like Focus Dog and Forest motivate us to stay off our phones. Meditation apps like Headspace and Smiling Mind teach us to meditate. Note-taking, Pomodoro timing apps, and phone features like digital well-being settings enhance productivity and reduce distraction. Set alarms and timers for focused work without constantly checking the clock. Countdown timers can challenge you to finish tasks within a set timeframe. Embrace your phone as a tool for focus rather than a distraction.I just want to say one more thing about phones and attention. Please, please get off your phone while you're driving. I totally get how easy it is to do. I promise you I'm not trying to preach or act like I'm innocent - I have totally done it myself, but truly - the people in your life need you to stay alive. Other people driving or walking on the roads need to stay alive for their people. So keep your attention on your driving and not your phone. Distracted driving can be more devastating than you could ever imagine.Okay, so let's move on to debunking that multitasking myth. I'm the bearer of bad news for those of you who self-identify as multitaskers. You're actually switch-taskers. We know you can't actually do two things at once and quickly switching back and forth between things may SEEM like multitasking but it's actually still switch tasking. Although, I have to say that when my kids were little, I think I might have actually been able to multitask - somehow I could open a yogurt smoothie bottle for my daughter and answer the never-ending “why” questions she was asking me while cooking dinner and cleaning off the counter and adding new socks for her little brother to the mental list of things I had to get at the store and also wondering when I had last washed my hair. Can anyone relate? Okay, so other than parents of young children, no one is truly multitasking. Every time we break from a task to switch to a new one, we lose focus, which, as we know, slows us down or causes us to miss stuff or make mistakes. Here's a little test you can try to see this in action. I learned this from Dan Crenshaw, whose YouTube video is linked in the show notes. Okay, so You're going to pause me and do two things: one, get a pen and paper and two, open the stopwatch on your phone. Then, come back and I'll tell you what to do next. See, I'm breaking down the task into smaller steps! Practicing what I preach, baby. Okay, hit pause now and come back when you're ready. Yay! You're back! Okay, hopefully you've got your pen, paper and timer ready. Alright, you're going to pause me again and write the alphabet down on your paper. Then, below that, write the numbers 1 through 26 under each corresponding letter. So, when you're done, you'll have two horizontal lines - one with the alphabet and one with numbers 1 - 26. Be sure to time yourself doing it, okay? Alright, go do it, I'll wait again. Okay, yay, you came back again! Okay, now you're going to do the same thing again but this time you're going to write A and then 1, B and then 2, C and then 3, D and then 4 and so on. So the result will look the same - a line of the alphabet with a line of numbers under it, but you'll be switching back and forth between the letters and corresponding numbers. Got it? Okay, do it now and don't forget to time yourself again cuz otherwise this is just a big waste of time. Welcome back! So unless you're magical or a parent of small children, your second time should be longer than the first time. You may have even made or almost made some errors while you were doing it. My point is, if you can, try to work on one, just one, thing at a time. You'll hopefully find it easier to focus, get more done, feel less tired when you're done working, and make less errors. Granted, if you've been really embracing the multitasking life, you'll likely find it challenging to drop this habit. But, give it a shot! You may find you need to use strategies to support this - maybe use a timer to keep you on task, use one of those focusing apps for your phone, or if you meet virtually, try keeping your camera on so you can't sneak off and send an email during a meeting. It can also be motivating to keep track of how you feel when you don't multitask - are you noticing any improvements or benefits? Check out the show notes for more ideas on beating multitasking!Okay, so hopefully you're still with me and I haven't lost your attention yet! And yay for you because you've made it to the end of this episode! I hope it was not too boring and you were able to learn something new. There are a ton more things about attention I could have written about but frankly, I was getting a little bored of this topic myself and was losing my own attention, so that's our show for today! Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen! Please share this episode with anyone who might find it useful which is probably everybody. We're so grateful to everyone who has shared Focus Forward! Word of mouth keeps us alive. If you have questions or topic suggestions, you can reach out to me at podcast@beyondbooksmart.com. Please subscribe to Focus Forward on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Sign up for our newsletter at www.beyondbooksmart.com slash podcast. We've got some super special stuff coming up for our newsletter subscribers, so get your name on that list so you can find out what we're up to. Our patient and kind editor and producer is Sean Potts and our brilliant content marketer is Justice Abbott. Thanks for listening and I wish you all a healthy and happy new year. Oh, and it's guy wire, in case you were wondering. A guy is a rope, cable or cord used to steady, guide or secure. And a muckraker describes a journalist who worked to search for and expose real or alleged corruption, scandal, or the like, especially in politics. Roosevelt used the term as an insult to these writers in a speech in 1906. Hahaha, aren't you glad you paid attention until the end of this episode??

Well, we are almost at the end of the year. Happy New Year! Oh, you guys Thank you all so much for listening along in 2023. I was feeling a little emotional writing this intro. I'm so excited that we made it through another year. These podcast episodes are a lot of work and following through on stuff takes a lot of effort for me so I'm just really proud of myself for keeping up with it! And I have to say that what makes it easier for me is how much logistical, technical, and creative support my teammates Sean and Justice provide me and the continuous emotional support I get from them and other colleagues of mine at Beyond BookSmart - continually putting yourself out there as a podcast host is challenging so the emotional safety net they provide is well, I couldn't do it without it. We are looking forward to next year and are excited about our upcoming episodes. If you have any topics you'd like me to explore, let me know! You can email me at podcast@beyondbooksmart.com. And if you've got some free time, could you quickly rate our podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify? Hopefully 5 stars and if not, please let me know what we can improve! Today's episode is a conversation I had with Dr. Marissa Edwards, Ariela Paulsen, and Karl Apelgren. These fantastic humans are all executive function coaches for Beyond BookSmart and If you've attended any of our free community education webinars, you may recognize their voices. I was so thrilled they agreed to join me for a Coach Q & A episode where we answer questions that were asked by people who registered for our webinars. Today we tackle managing negative thoughts, the impact of complex medical conditions on our executive functioning, the power of connection and having a strong support network, test anxiety, finding motivation when you're not interested in something, especially classes, and how to succeed even if you have a teacher who is not supportive of your needs. I enjoyed talking with them so much that I really want to do this again. If you like this format, please let me know! As always, here are the shownotes from today's episode:Top 10 Ways for Overcoming Test Anxietyhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/top-10-ways-for-overcoming-test-anxietyHow to Help Students with Anxiety: Top 8 Tips for Parents and Teachershttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/treating-student-anxiety-7-expert-tips-for-parentsWhen Students with Health Conditions Transition to Collegehttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/when-students-with-health-conditions-transition-to-collegeComplex Child - A Resource for Parents of Children Who Are Medically Complex or Have Disabilitieshttps://complexchild.org/Organization tips for caregivers of a child with complex medical needshttps://www.aboutkidshealth.ca/article?contentid=1148&language=englishExecutive Functions, Self-Regulation, and Chronic Pain: A Reviewhttps://academic.oup.com/abm/article/37/2/173/4565851How to Practice Self-Compassion: 8 Techniques and Tipshttps://positivepsychology.com/how-to-practice-self-compassion/Text a Friend… Right Now! - Happiness Lab Podcasthttps://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/text-a-friend-right-nowContact Us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoaching

A few months ago, I was in Ithaca for a family event and met Doug Kim, who shared that he works for Microsoft as a principal design manager in their inclusive design team. Once he told me that his team develops technology in a way that supports neurodiversity and mental health, I knew I had to get Doug on Focus Forward. For anyone who doesn't know about inclusive design, let me give you a little primer. Microsoft is a leader in the field and much of what I am sharing I learned from their Inclusive Design Toolkit, (which you'll hear more about later!) Inclusive design is a methodology that enables and draws on the full range of human diversity. Most importantly, this means including and learning from people with a range of perspectives. This explanation, which I just said, is the current, widely accepted definition, which was written by the inclusive design team at Microsoft. The concept of inclusive design was originally used for developing digital products but can, and should be used when designing anything that many people will use. It's more than just making a product accessible, it's about discovering and learning the variety of ways people might use a product from the people who will use it. Another thing I learned from the toolkit that helped me understand inclusive design more deeply is that “An important distinction between accessibility and inclusive design is that accessibility is an attribute, while inclusive design is a method. While practicing inclusive design should make a product more accessible, it's not a process for meeting all accessibility standards. Ideally, accessibility and inclusive design work together to make experiences that are not only compliant with standards but truly usable and open to all.” Something else you'll hear my guests talk about is the collaborative and iterative nature of inclusive design. It involves continuous learning and adaptation based on user feedback. It's a dynamic process aimed at creating products that truly meet the diverse needs of users. This aspect of inclusive design really resonated with me as an Executive Function coach and I hope it resonates with you, too! Microsoft's ResourcesMicrosoft Inclusive DesignOriginal ToolkitToolkit for CognitionInclusive AIFurther Reading:Mismatch: How Inclusion Shapes Design by Kat HolmesInclusive Design Toolkit and resources from University of Cambridge, UKInclusively - Support for employers and employeesHistory of Inclusive Design - Institute for Human Centered DesignInclusive Design LinkedIn Learning Course with Christina MallonContact Us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscriptHannah Choi 00:04Hi everyone and welcome to Focus Forward, an executive function Podcast where we explore the challenges and celebrate the wins you'll experience as you change your life through working on improving your executive function skills. I'm your host, Hannah Choi. Oh my goodness, it has been a month since we last dropped an episode. With Thanksgiving and the ADHD conference and all the other stuff that just goes on at work. We decided to skip one this past month. And before I get to this episode's topic, I wanted to share a little mini report on our experience attending the ADHD conference, which was held in Baltimore from November 29 to December 2, and I'm recording this a few days after returning home and I am still filled with excitement. It was so great. Sean Potts and Justice Abbott from our marketing team and Wendy Craven, who is one of our outreach specialists joined me at the conference. And it was truly an incredible experience for us all. We met some brilliant and interesting people who stopped by our booth in the exhibit hall and shared their stories with us. And we worked really hard to make our booth a fun place to stop by people lined up to spin our colorful prize wheel and learn about ADHD symptoms and some tools that you can use to manage the challenges that come along with those symptoms. And our ADHD Beyond BookSmart squishy brains in our teal blue company color were a major hit. And our you're not lazy bracelets and stickers resonated with many people. We also had a secret notes project where people could anonymously share their thoughts about their ADHD, and a community art wall that everyone could contribute to. We are all so grateful we were able to attend. And next year's conference is in Anaheim in southern Southern Cal in sunny Southern California. And it is absolutely an event worth attending. So start saving those pennies. Okay, so let's get into today's episode. Back in June, I was in Ithaca for a family event. And I met Doug Kim, who is a friend of my husband's cousin, Doug shared that he works for Microsoft as a principal design manager. And part of his job includes collaborating with the inclusive design team at Microsoft, and working on developing a guide for Inclusive Design for neurodiversity. And as soon as I heard those words come out of his mouth, I knew I had to get Doug on Focus Forward. And of course, because he's wonderful, he wholeheartedly said yes, and then came through with an even better offer, and brought two of his colleagues who are the leaders of inclusive design at Microsoft, Christina Mallon and Margaret Price. And for anyone who doesn't know about inclusive design, let me give you a little primer. Microsoft is a leader in the field and much of what I'm sharing I learned from their inclusive design Toolkit, which you're going to hear more about later. And inclusive design is a methodology that enables and draws on the full range of human diversity. Most importantly, this means including and learning from people with a range of perspectives. This explanation that I just said is the current widely accepted definition. And it was written by the inclusive design team at Microsoft. The concept of inclusive design was originally used for developing digital products, but can and should be used when designing anything that will be used by many people. It's more than just making a product accessible. It's about discovering and learning the variety of ways people might use a product from the people who will actually use it. An additional thing that I learned from the toolkit, and that helped me understand inclusive design more deeply is that an important distinction between accessibility and inclusive design is that accessibility is an attribute. Well, inclusive design is a method. While practicing inclusive designs should make a product more accessible. It's not a process for meeting all accessibility standards. Ideally, accessibility and inclusive design work together to make experiences that are not only compliant with standards, but truly usable, and open to all. And something else you'll hear my guests talk about is the collaborative and iterative nature of inclusive design. It involves continuous learning, and adaptation based on user feedback. It's a dynamic process, and it's aimed at creating products that truly meet the diverse needs of users. And this aspect of inclusive design really resonates with me as an executive function coach. As coaches we also collaborate with our clients to carefully and thoughtfully over time. Figure out the best way of using a tool to create a larger system that works to support the EF challenges the client experiences Okay, enough of me talking about this, let's get on to the show. Oh, and by the way, you get to hear Exhausted Hannah today, I tried to record Focus Forward episodes in the mornings when my attention and my brain are at their best. But due to some scheduling limitations, a couple of my guests are on the West Coast. I recorded this conversation after a long day of work. And apparently speaking coherently, in complete sentences was not my strong point at that time that day, so please have patience with me. As you wait for me to get my thoughts out of my head. Oh, boy. Okay,Christina Mallon 05:38here we go.Hannah Choi 05:41All right. Well, hello, Microsoft people. Thank you so much for joining me on Focus Forward. Would you go around the room and introduce yourselves? Doug, do you want to start since you're the one that kind of connected us all?Doug Kim 06:01Sure, yeah. Well, my name is Doug Kim, and I'm a design manager at Microsoft. Part of my charter is to help support inclusive design. And a strong collaborator with Margaret. And Christina, were also on the podcast today. And we've been talking and working quite a bit over the, over the past couple of years on developing our developing our inclusive design toolkit, and especially developing better practices for designing for neurodiversity.Hannah Choi 06:34And Christina,Christina Mallon 06:37so I am Christina Mallon, I lead inclusive design at Microsoft, I joined about two years ago. I have dual paralysis and ADHD. So really excited to bring my lived experience into the conversation today. Hannah Choi 06:53Yeah, thank you. And Margaret. And last but not least, Margaret Price 06:57Hi, my name is Margaret. I joined Microsoft in 2014, as one of the founders of the inclusive design practice. I'm a strategist, I have ADHD, and I'm on the spectrum. And so this is a topic that is near and dear to me.Hannah Choi 07:13So can you just tell me the story about how you, you know, got to where you are today, and, and you know, how this inclusive design became what it is, and just kind of how you got here.Margaret Price 07:28Back in 2014, the number of product groups at Microsoft were asking some pretty big, bold questions like, What is the future of interaction design? And what's missing from various design thinking methods today? And how can we think about embracing the full range of human diversity as we think about product making, from how we frame problems to how we solve them. And so a small team of people got together and created this practice called inclusive design at Microsoft, which is grounded in three principles of recognizing where there's exclusion today. Learning from diversity, and scaling, for figuring out how you can think about disability through the lens of permanent temporary and situational abilities. And recognizing that there's so much opportunity to learn from somebody who may be experiencing a permanent disability or anyone who's experienced a large range of exclusion. You might think about exclusion through the lens of disability, but also through the lens of socioeconomic status, gender identity and a number of other dimensions. And how do you bring people into the process who've been excluded. And what that means in product making is, of course, having diverse teams of people and championing that, but also thinking about how you recruit folks to come into the process as CO designers to actually bring equity into the process because, of course, what we make as a byproduct of how we make and so we started as a very small and scrappy team of people and ended up building education and capability for all of Microsoft and scaling that we wanted free, accessible resources for the world. So we actually ended up creating curricula that's now in over 60 universities around the world. And a number of companies have been inspired by the work that we've done to create their own inclusive design departments. And we've worked hard to, you know, create a number of experts there are incredible brilliant people all around Microsoft, who are experts in the space now who apply the inclusive design method into their own product groups. And so it's been, it's been a journey of trial and error and learning and testing from a number of diverse communities in Microsoft and outside of Microsoft. And it's certainly a subject that is near and dear to my heart and Doug's and Christina's.Hannah Choi 10:17That's great. Yeah, I love I love how that conversations are being had with people who, who truly know, the experience from because it's a lived experience, there's not, you know, there's not really sort of assumptions being made. Can you tell me a little bit about how you work with your co-creators and how you make that whole process? happen? And it sounds like it's pretty fantastic and successful.Christina Mallon 10:52Yeah, I mean, I'm happy to cover that. And Doug, let me know if you want to add on. So we believe and as Margaret just mentioned, it is integral that there is equity within product making. So our goal that Microsoft is to ensure that we are creating with people from marginalized communities, at the beginning of ideation, all the way to releasing for, you know, general release, and how we work with them is through either ERGs within our company, that has individuals from marginalized communities as a part of that erg and an erg as an employee resource group, or we work with teams or individuals with different lived experiences from being a part of a marginalized community outside and we pay them to ensure that they can provide feedback at multiple times within the product development process. And feel free to really join in as I know, we've been working hand in hand on this specifically in Azure.Doug Kim 12:04Yeah, you know, we're always looking for ways that we can collaborate with people who have experience and always always looking for ways to improve that and always ways to like, help, you know, the people on the inside, who are creating these products really, really, like, learn to empathize with what people are experiencing with their products, which is not easy. And it's, it's, it's not an easy process. And like, there were a lot of mistakes, I think, there were made, like, in the early days, people were just sort of building awareness about disability and accessibility, you know, people would try to just like, whatever, try to use a screen reader or something and say, oh, okay, I got it, right? Well, you know, you don't, right, because if you have the luxury of turning off the screen reader after 15 minutes, then you have no idea what it's like to not be able to do that. And so this is a lesson that we try to like, you know, drill into all the folks that we work with, in terms of like bringing them along on this process. You know, there's this, this is kind of like widely adopted phrase principle, you know, nothing for us without us. And so we really try to stick to that principle, like, involve people very deeply in the design process, who represent the audiences we're trying to expand our capabilities to include, and Sen. And we just really feel like you cannot practice inclusive design. Without that step. You know, you can't make assumptions because, you know, I guarantee if you're making assumptions without that input, they're going to be wrong. Yeah.Christina Mallon 13:40Yeah. And then Microsoft, we only consider products that are inclusive are ones that are co designed with communities. Because, you know, we believe that it is key to product success,Hannah Choi 13:54Right. So is, which would you say that, that like, how, how much does the idea of inclusive design come up in across to Microsoft as a whole? Like, is it it, would you say it's a conversation and and a viewpoint that the entire company has or is it is it more specific to certain products?Christina Mallon 14:26 Yeah, I mean, our mission is to create you know, tools, so that every single customer and enterprise customer and person on this earth can use it to reach their dreams and the company is bought into inclusive design. There are, you know, certain parts of the company where I feel like it was a design is used more. I definitely you know, if you have champions like Margaret, and Doug and they are specific In organizations, we see a lot of inclusive design. There are others where there isn't a strong champ of inclusive design, that less inclusive design happens.Hannah Choi 15:12And I suppose that's found, I mean, it's huge company.Christina Mallon 15:14So over 200,000 people, yeah.Doug Kim 15:19You know, it doesn't matter you can, you can be in a company of 200,000, or a company have like three things, you're trying to change behavior, it's always interesting what you have to, like, think about, right and plan for and strategize. So I think our situation is different. Obviously, we're at one of the biggest companies in the world. But like, you could be at a company of six and face like a similar set of challenges, and convincing people to work this way, developing expertise, you know, that's what the toolkit is about, just because we want to be able to like, like, empower the whole ecosystem, and give folks like yourself, like a set of tools that kind of like, normalizes the idea of inclusivity, it doesn't make it like an oddball thing that you only do, or think about, you know, once in a while, when you have the times likeHannah Choi 16:12that one person or something. Christina Mallon 16:14First original toolkit, over 2 million people have downloaded and used, we just launched the inclusive design for cognition, which we like to call Inclusive Design for Brain Stuff. And that launched it and we've seen a massive amount of users using it. But really, the Inclusive Design original toolkit is what led the way.Hannah Choi 16:38Yeah, I really love that. Something that I am, one of the goals of this podcast is to increase conversations about, you know, like, neurodivergent brains and how, and how, like, Let's break the stigma. And so I really love that you guys addressed that. saw that as a as a separate, not a separate, I don't want to say separate but like sight as its as its own area that needed attention. And that, and that needed that recognition and guidance for people who might not know what, you know, what people are experiencing. So I really love that that is that that is out? Are you seeing more and more people?Christina Mallon 17:28Now we're definitely a huge demand, Margaret, and Doug, get some original work around cognition. And as I took in the new role about, you know, two years ago, and change, we said, Okay, this work is so amazing. How do we get this in a more formalized toolkit? Because there is such a demand, I'm constantly getting LinkedIn messages, emails and say, Hey, how are you designing for people who have trouble focusing or making decisions or communicating? And that's why I reached out to both Doug and Margaret, when I joined to say, hey, can we build upon this work, and they really were, let's do it and signed up. And I really appreciate the partnership, because, you know, we're seeing a lot of usage of the toolkit, and also seeing it reflected and used by product makers at Microsoft and externally.Hannah Choi 18:25And I really love how the way that you created, it makes it I felt like, as I read it as a I don't, you know, I don't create products, but I do create, I do help my clients create, you know, systems that work well for them. And I really loved how it, I felt like it really encourages the reader from whatever viewpoint they're coming from, to consider what they need, and, and to consider how to ask for what they need. And here are some possible ideas and it just the way that you presented it is just really accessible. And it's kind of fun. And, you know, like the graphics are really fun. And I know that's just kind of like little stuff, but as a consumer, it made a difference for me when I was engaging with it. So anyone listening who hasn't checked out the Inclusive Design toolkits from Microsoft, I really highly recommend checking them out a lot of really good stuff in thereDoug Kim 19:35Inclusive dot Microsoft dot design, that's the website that they're on. Thank you, we promote and that's where like the original toolkit is there's a bunch of videos and guidance PDFs of what the new stuff on there and you know examples of how you know we've we've built these into products is these concepts.Hannah Choi 19:58So when you were creating them, how do you do come up with and kind of incorporate the five types of, of cognitive demands? Which for me are executive function skills, learning focus, decision making recall and communication. So I was just wondering like, how did you decide on those? Well,Doug Kim 20:23were you talking to Margaret? Oh, it's okay. Go ahead. No, you start.Margaret Price 20:29So it started with a pretty comprehensive, lit review. So looking at a lot of existing information from different fields of study, from psychology to cognitive science, to think about help us think about how do we frame this space? This is a really complex space. So how should we think about it? So we started with a lit review, then conducted hundreds of interviews with folks all around the world over a span of maybe two and a half years and 2015 2016. A lot of folks in academia to really deeply understand how can we think about perception, I can think about sensing and thinking, what are all of the different ways we could frame this? What are all the possibilities, and then we apply the inclusive design method to it, we brought in a lot of CO creators, we mapped a number of ways we could think about it, we started mapping the various dimensions. And actually, there's many, many, many more than our initial few. We prioritize these few based on the business opportunity for Microsoft, the opportunity for the world to have stronger impact on the need that we saw from people. And so all of this is grounded in evidence based research. And was prioritized based on where we saw the largest need in our communities.Doug Kim 21:59Yeah, and so like, I work on Azure, which is our, you know, enterprise oriented cloud services offering. And we did a lot of studies for how Azure works, or does not work for neurodivergent users. And so a lot of the things that we pulled out of those studies kind of found its way into the guidance that there's there in the toolkit, like decision making in Azure is, is kind of a huge deal like and you have to retain a lot of information to be able to effectively make effective decisions you have like dozens or hundreds of options to choose from to get a particular result that you're looking for. And so we wanted to kind of like abstract out some of these to the like, the cognitive types of functions that are at play here, and how we do or do not support them. So I think a lot of the some of the impetus to choose these came from, you know, the research that Margaret was referencing, but also kind of the experience of our users who are saying, like, this is where if I make the wrong move, I could be in big trouble. You know, you could write $1,000, as opposed to nothing. Yeah. So you hear that? And you go, Oh, okay, I get it. That's a tough call. Yeah.Hannah Choi 23:27Yeah. And if you can't confidently make those decisions, then you're going to be more stressed, which is going to impact your ability to use your executive function skills. Well, which is going to set you up for making more mistakes. So yeah, and that just shows you how important it is to consider these things for people who do not have a, you know, you know, that like don't have ADHD or don't, you know, have mental health struggles or whatever, you know, is impacting someone's someone at work, it's so important to consider that. And I love how you think about that scalability. I have how, you know, like, this thing, yes, it addresses a need here that everybody can actually use it and benefit from it.Doug Kim 24:19So I'm curious like for you, okay, so you're an executive functioning coach, very fascinating to learn how this kind of affects your work. Like one of the issues that came up for us was just consequences. Right? Am I aware when I'm going through a given experience, what the consequences of my decisions are? And if not, how do I move forward? So is that something that comes up for you like what, what are your clients telling you about consequences and the stuff that they need to be able to, like understand and move forward make decisions? You know, when the consequences are ambiguous? Hannah Choi 24:55Yeah, it's huge. And so much so much that comes out is confidence, the confidence to make any decision that they're making? And many of the people that I've worked with, have have spent their life feeling like they've been doing it wrong all along. And, and so to come to a space where question like, you know, like, I'm asking them questions like, what does work for you? What doesn't work for you? What have been the consequences of your actions in the past? And, you know, and and what do you kind of envision for yourself in the future? It's? Yeah, not really sure where I'm going with this. You're really, really, really, so much of what I do just real, I can really relate to the work that you guys have done in addressing. Yeah, the potential consequences that other people have to have in their life and the business decisions that they're making or whatever. Doug Kim 25:58Yeah, yeah, I think it goes back to sort of like, basically understand, like, what the, one of the one of the key concepts in the toolkit is trying to try to understand what the cognitive load is, like, how much demand are you putting on the on the user? And why and where does it come into your experience? Right? And so these are, the aspects of the dimension is how much you're asking them to remember how much you are you expecting them to project in terms of the the consequences of their decisions, I want you you're expecting them to be able to act on their own versus in collaboration with their teammates, or co workers. And I think these are normally things that we don't really discuss in depth, we're just sort of like build products, assuming that a person is acting alone, acting independently, and has all the tools that they need to be able to say, make an informed decision. And so, I mean, that's not totally true. I'm being a little bit. I'm exaggerating a little bit, just to make the point. But I think that one of the points of the toolkit is to say, don't make assumptions here, options about what your customer does or doesn't know or what they're expecting, as they're moving through an experience. Build it in a way so you understand what you're asking of your customers, you and understand the level of demand that you're placing on them to do anything, because every experience does that. Right. There's something that it's going to ask of you, right to say, like, if you jump into a car, like there's a presumption that you understand how to operate it, because you've passed the test, at some point, we're seeing all that stuff, the minute you turn on the ignition, right, there's an assumption that you know that when you press the brake, that the car is going to stop. So every, every experience does that to a certain extent. But not all product traders measure that, and weigh that and say, what actually, where are we assuming before somebody even, you know, starts the car? Margaret Price 28:10Well, I love what you're saying. And to build on it, I think it's a really great set of points that leads to the recognition. You know, there's a lot I mentioned, at the beginning of the call, I have ADHD, and I'm on the spectrum, and there's a lot of self-blame that can happen. What's wrong with me? Why can I use those sorts of thoughts? And I think that's where, you know, the worlds colliding and unlikely between what we do and a lot of what you do, which is, you know, as Doug mentioned, asking, what are the cognitive demands? And where are the mismatches between what's needed from the person and what the product is providing? And recognizing that it's not your fault. It's this product's fault. Yeah, this is not built in a way that's going to serve you. Well. And this is not about you. This is about the product not being built. Good enough.Hannah Choi 29:03Yes. Yes. And that yeah, that's, that's many conversations that I have with my clients is being like, there's nothing wrong with you. This is how your brain works. And this and unfortunately, it is not the system, the world that we are in is not, you know, necessarily designed for that.Doug Kim 29:25Well, I think that's especially true with like, well, I don't know, I don't want to get into kind of a waiting thing. But like, you see, that was neurodivergent. Conditions like so commonly, like I think societally, like in this is true, I think, pretty much across the globe, we're like conditioned to say, put the onus on the person with that condition to adapt. Yep. It's an experience that wasn't built for them. And, you know, that's sort of like one of the key premises of the toolkit and this extension of the toolkit. deals with cognition, which is that no, like, that's, it's not you, it's us. It's not, it's not you, like, if it doesn't work for you, then that's a problem with a product, right? It's a problem with the environment or the world that were created, never expecting you to participate in. Like, if it doesn't work for you, then we need to adapt it, we need to come up with systems that normalize you to an extent that allows you to function as effectively or better than anybody else who's using a product. And, like, puts the onus on us as periodic creators, to, to adapt to you as opposed to the other way around. And the fact that our systems up until, you know, very recently, and like without this sort of understanding of how things work could work potentially a lot better for our interviewers. And folks. It's, it's, you know, it just hasn't been built that way. And, you know, I think our mission, like the three of us together, and now you and everybody else who's like involved in this inclusive design process, is is to upend that expectation, and say, it's the onus on people who are creating products. You know, I mean, you create a product, this podcast is a product, right. And it could be applied to anything that anybody, you know, makes,Christina Mallon 31:25I think, people are starting to see this, you see the World Health Organization, how they define disability as a mismatch between a person and a design. And I think that is really key because, again, as a disabled person, I'm told, okay, you need to figure out how to do this or fix this solution. Yeah, and it's really taxing. And this is something that's common in marginalized communities.Hannah Choi 31:54Yes. Yes. Yeah, I was just doing some research on, on advocating for yourself at work. And, and many of the articles that I read, said, unfortunately, it is on you, it will, in most situations, it will be on you to educate your employer, on what how to, you know, meet your needs. And so, it's, and that's, that's with any marginalized community, marginalized community, right. It's it, unfortunately, at this point, it is, it is on that group to educate everyone else. This inclusive design, the fact that Microsoft is embracing this so much shows us that that, like, that's a good role model. Do you think that within I mean, I guess you guys can only speak for the departments with it to work. But would you say that within it, or in your experience? Like, Christina, if you need something? Do you feel like you're, it is easy for you to advocate for yourself? Do you feel like that inclusive design concept spreads to the advocacy part? And for Costco? Yes,Christina Mallon 33:14I'm definitely empowered to implement inclusive design, and that the entire company has a pretty good understanding the importance of it. But the current state of the economy, with our focus on AI, there's definitely more begging that needs to get done for resources around it. And I think, you know, that's why people in positions of power really need to advocate for this. And that's why when I started, Doug, and Margaret, could empathize with me. And were able to provide, you know, their resources to help create the inclusive design for cognition toolkit.Hannah Choi 33:58And, and Doug and Margaret would like, where did where did your strength in, in, in your knowledge come from? Was that just from your experiencing your experience of creating this inclusive design? Or is that something that you have naturally already felt before you got into that?Doug Kim 34:19Everything I know comes from Margaret.Hannah Choi 34:24Margaret, you're amazing.Margaret Price 34:28You're all amazing. Yeah,Christina Mallon 34:30we're all amazingMargaret Price 34:32 lots of listening and learning. And I as a generalist strategist, I like to learn there's so many brilliant leaders in this space outside of Microsoft, who pioneered inclusive design long before Microsoft got in the business. And so a lot of listening and learning to brilliant folks. And we can, you know, give you links For show notes too. Yeah,Hannah Choi 34:58Thank you, I was just gonna say thatMargaret Price 35:01A lot of listening, a lot of learning a lot of synthesizing just a ton of information. And wanting to communicate it in ways, as you mentioned earlier that are simple for anybody to understand. And connecting dots that might seem not connectable, I have a background in research as well. And so I love listening and learning and connecting dots that might seem like they can't connect. And I think, you know, to your question earlier about advocating for ourselves in the workplace, I think, for me, a lot of it came from not as much inclusive design as the work on myself. And I think you do a lot of this with folks that you coach, probably, but really becoming, you know, keenly self aware about my needs, and how to communicate them and boundaries and how to communicate them. And recognizing that communicating well. And communicating in a way that's going to serve me is the absolute best thing that I can do, rather than ignoring or suppressing what I need.Hannah Choi 36:07Yeah, and so much of advice, like going back to the idea of how you have to, you know, it is on you as a person to advocate for yourself, and you might end up having to educate your employer. But a big part of that self advocacy is, you know, like, knowing yourself, and knowing what your boundaries are and right, like you said, like learning how to, how to ask for that. And yeah, that is, it's a lot of what I do. Yeah. And it's so funny, because I just, just over the past year, went through the whole ADHD diagnosis and answered all these life questions that I've had about myself for a very long time. And, and, you know, working at beyond booksmart, it was, it was like, not a thing, and not a big deal. It was, you know, it wasn't like I had to decide whether I was going to disclose and, and, you know, there were already so many systems built into, you know, built into how we do things at beyond booksmart. Because, because we are in the business of supporting people with executive function challenges. So I feel very lucky that I work at a company where I am just automatically supported, and that there are lots of people within the company who, you know, also, like, have shared needs or similar needs, or even different needs. And so a lot of our training materials are presented in many different formats. And, you know, there's, there's many different ways to interact and many different choices that you can make whatever works the best for you. And I know, that's not how it is that many places. And so I, I really hope that these kinds of conversations continue to happen that companies like Microsoft, and other I mean, you guys almost have like a, an I don't know, if you feel this way, but as a very large company, like you have a really big opportunity to, you know, to be a voice for this. I, you know, I like I kind of feel that way, there's a podcast host of like, well, I don't really have a lot of power, but I have a little bit of power, and I'm going to try to use it. So do you. Do you feel that? Do you feel like that responsibility? Christina Mallon 38:18Yeah, I mean, I took my job six months pregnant with my first child, which is kind of crazy. But I knew the power that Microsoft has to empower people like be to be able to achieve their dreams. And I already knew that the foundation has been set by people like Doug and Margaret. So it would come into a very inclusive company.Doug Kim 38:48Well, I would say that, you know, something that, like kind of struck me as you were talking when I was was like the, the idea that you have power, and I think everybody has power. And a lot of us have this tendency to like even regardless of what position we're in, to kind of under estimate what that what that power is. And so I think if you're in this, you care about this space, which if you made it this far into this episode, you obviously do. You can exercise your power on one on one, right, you can help shape conversation and you can help normalize things. If you're more of like from representing the ally ship side of things, you can learn more, you can reduce the burden on your colleagues or whoever it is to have to advocate for themselves. You can absorb information like our toolkit, but any of the other like, you know, amazing resources that are that there are out there to help, you know, again, create this expectation. ation of inclusion as a as a regular and standard practice. So there we're constantly stretching ourselves to be more inclusive and to include more audiences that haven't been included to this point. So it could be a one person company, it could be two people working together to see, you know, examine how they operate, could be a soccer club could be whatever a classroom. I don't think that work ever ends. But it's like, I think we found that it's joyful work, you know, it's inspiring work. Learn more about human human capability, and what you can do to enable and empower that. So, you know, it's also fun.Hannah Choi 40:48What creative work, problem solving, and something that you said in the beginning, just connected me back to what you were just saying. And you said, I think Margaret, it might have been you, you said, you asked people a lot of questions, the CO creators that you worked with. And then Doug, you said, you made a lot of mistakes in the beginning, I can't remember exactly who said what, but but I think that's part of that power is not being afraid to ask the questions, and not being afraid to make the mistakes. And, and that is so scary for people, especially when you're asking questions about something that you don't really know a lot about. Doug Kim 41:29So yeah, you know, sort of, you're bringing into mind this, or like, you know, that era that Margaret was referring to earlier, back 2014, 2015. You know, I just started, like, getting used to interviewing people with disabilities. And I was interviewing this woman who has a low vision person who used like, an extreme amount of magnification, and a third party tool to be able to magnify her, um, screens to something like 400 person, and I was watching her work and just kind of like, making little comments. And at one point, the, the screen magnification tool she was using just crashed and quit. And, you know, I was looking at her and I said, and I just kind of chalk. Well, I said, oh, shoot, like, it's a crash. Let's, let's reboot that out. And she just looks at me, she goes, Why are you laughing? And I said, Oh, well, it's just the like, a little glitchy thing. And she just said, you know, it's not a glitch. When this happens. It is so hard for me to get this back. And my livelihood, because she was an independent business person, right, who worked on her own. She said, You know, my livelihood could be drastically affected. Like every time this happens, and you know, Margaret's done a lot of research, too with customers who have said a lot of the same things around things like, you know, improperly coated, or created notifications and interruptions. There's a lot of science around that, too. But at the time, I was like, oh, boy, I just got a big lesson. Yeah. And understanding, you know, how to empathize with what people are experiencing. Yeah, so I view that as kind of, like, you know, a mistake on my part, in terms of how I reacted to what she was experiencing at the time. But something that has, like, continued to, like, help me understand how to move forward, and how to understand how to work with folks with disabilities, or with anybody really, anybody? Yeah, developing more like tools for empathy and understanding and how to keep you know, going deeper into this work. So those are, those are really helpful. Actually, I still pretty much think that, you know, like, if she remembers that at all, it's quite some time. Now, she probably didn't think much of me. But yeah, she's been enormously helpful. Just that one episode, to you know, whatever progress I've made my journey along this path.Hannah Choi 44:05Yeah, and going back to that power, I mean, that shows like the power of, of experiences for people, we, you know, we never know the impact that we might have on somebody. And so you guys probably don't even see the the impact that your work has, has had on, on everybody.Christina Mallon 44:25We get some nice notes here and there. But I think having people with disabilities within the company is super important. Because you're able to do these really quick empathy sessions and you can actually see oh man, this really does affect when the small design changes made. When we look at power and power dynamics, most people that are making decisions sit in an area where they have lots of power, they are white, they are male, they're educated. They speak English, upper middle class live in, you know, the states or the UK. And it is so important to have diversity within the company so they can influence these power makers or become one of the power people. And Microsoft does a good job of that, and really looking at hiring and trying to increase the exposure to people with disabilities. But you know, here's the thing, everyone's gonna make a mistake, I make mistakes about disability, and I'm disabled myself. So it's always a learning experience. And if people treat it as a learning experience, and don't get scared to even interact with someone that disability, life will be better. Yes,Hannah Choi 45:42I worked for a few years in the, in the students in the, like Disability Resource Center at a community college. And, and I just loved it, that diversity of employees within that, within that office, and then the students that came in, it was, it was I made a ton of mistakes, I made a ton of mistakes. And I learned so much. And it was, it was just such an amazing experience. So grateful for it. Yeah, I we're actually, I'm right in the middle of preparing for a webinar, we do these community education webinars, and we have one coming up a week from today. And it's about, it's about how to manage like perceived failure. And, and we're talking a lot about how, like, exactly that what you said, Doug, like that, that felt like a mistake, but you are still learning from it years later. And how how when you can change your viewpoint from seeing it as a mistake, and something to trip you up and stop you and switch it to see us something as that we can learn from and grow from. And you can separate a little bit separate, like your ego from it and and then become more, you know, just more aware and more understanding.Doug Kim 47:10Well, you know, yeah, and I think that, like, if you're coming from a position of ally ship, again, that you should expect to encounter a road where you have setbacks and you take on risks, you know, in, in your journey to like, you know, help serve that community or even understand more about that community, you you're part of the goal, I think of ally ship is to alleviate risk from other people and put it on yourself. And some of that risk is, you know, involved in in making mistakes. I mean, if I look at whatever the embarrassment that I felt in that moment that I was talking about, it's not much compared to what the person that I was trying to understand from past experience every day, every time that you know, magnifier crashes. And so like, if a second if I can take one second to have an embarrassing moment, and help, you know, ultimately create a better system for her, then that's really not much of a risk. But it is, it is, like a lot of people like think about, like a potential misstep like that as a huge risk. In some ways it is. It's embarrassing. It's not fun. But it's what you're doing is you're you're you're taking some like emotional discomfort, you know, or the possibility of emotional discomfort, you know, off somebody else's plate and putting it onto yours. That's a very that's, that's an expected and also a that's an outcome. You know, you should you should expect to have.Hannah Choi 48:54My favorite quote, ever is by Susan David, who's a psychologist, and she said, discomfort is the price of admission to a meaningful life. And I just love that so much.Margaret Price 49:08Oh, that's beautiful. I love Susan David.Hannah Choi 49:10I know I love her. She's so great.Margaret Price 51:21Delightful. Well, thank you so much for having us on. Because yeah, speaking of executive executive functioning skills, flexibility is part of that and my, and my rigid schedule, I am gonna have to hop. But really, it was such a delight. Meeting you, Hannah, and speaking with you, and of course, talking with two people that I just adore, Christina and Doug. So thank you for having us on and for discussing this important topic.Hannah Choi 51:52And that's our show for today. Thanks so much for taking time out of your day to listen and learn about inclusive design and for having some patience with me. You can find links to lots of inclusive design resources in the show notes, and please share this episode with your family or your friends who might help it find it useful. If you have questions or topic suggestions, you can reach out to me at podcast at beyond booksmart.com and please subscribe to focus forward on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. If you listen on Apple or Spotify, you can give us a boost by giving us a five star rating. Sign up for our newsletter at beyond booksmart.com/podcast. We'll let you know when new episodes drop, and we'll share information related to the topic. Our very patient editor and producer is Sean Potts. Our thoughtful and creative content marketer is justice Abbott extra special thanks to Doug who brought Christina and Margaret onto the show with me and a million thank yous to the people at beyond booksmart who helped make our attendance at the ADHD conference possible. Thanks for listening

For many people (especially those with Executive Function challenges), managing money can be really stressful. If you can relate to this challenge and are thinking of sending a kid off to college, then learning how to plan your finances accordingly is something that's worth being really proactive about. According to the Education Data Initiative, average tuition and fee rates have increased 130% since 1990 - and that's after adjusting for inflation (yikes!) So, what can we do? Is there a way to approach saving for college that is less stressful and more effective than just wingin' it or waiting till the last minute? Luckily, today's guest is Shannon Vasconcelos, the Director of College Finance for Bright Horizons College Coach, and she joined me to discuss saving for college in a very executive function-friendly manner. In other words, she was the perfect expert I needed for this topic. Listen to learn from this college finance expert how you can approach this new exciting yet expensive chapter well prepared! Show notes: Bright Horizon's College Coachwww.getintocollege.comGetting In: A College Coach Conversationhttps://getintocollege.com/Resources/Getting-In-PodcastYou Need a Budget (Hannah's favorite budgeting tool)www.ynab.comSaving For Collegehttps://www.savingforcollege.com/Roth IRA and 529 Explainedhttps://www.savingforcollege.com/article/which-is-best-529-college-savings-plan-or-roth-iraMaking College Affordable: 5 Tips for Securing Scholarshipshttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/executive-functioning-strategies-blog/making-college-affordable-5-tips-for-securing-scholarshipsContact Us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoaching

Applying for college can feel like a monumental, overwhelming task - and that's because it is! There are so many deadlines, details, and steps that could be missed even by someone with fantastic Executive Function skills - but does it have to be? And then, once you get there, how do you set yourself up for success as a college student with EF challenges? I wondered how I could use the platform of Focus Forward to help those of you out there find some resources and strategies to make applying and going to college a little easier. Luckily, my colleague at Beyond BookSmart knew someone at McMillan Education, an organization whose goal is to help make the process of applying to college a little easier and less stressful for everyone. Rachel Leja, an educational consultant at McMillan came to my rescue! We met on a sunny morning just last week to have a chat about all things college - both before and after acceptance. Keep listening to learn how you can make the most of this next chapter and if your kiddos are too young to be thinking about college, tuck this episode away in your back pocket for the future. It'll be here waiting for you!In the meantime, here are some show notes related to the episode: Guide to Colleges for Students with Learning Differences (check your local library or school counseling office)https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Colleges-Students-Learning-Differences-dp-0593517407/dp/0593517407/ref=dp_ob_title_bkMcMillan Educationhttps://www.mcmillaneducation.com/WISE Advice on Educational Planning - McMillan's Podcasthttps://www.buzzsprout.com/2134583Students with Disabilities Preparing for Postsecondary Education:Know Your Rights and Responsibilitieshttps://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/transition.htmlSelf-Advocacy for College Studentshttps://www.ldonline.org/ld-topics/self-esteem-stress-management/self-advocacy-college-students7 Ways to Support Your Teen During the College Application Processhttps://www.linkedin.com/pulse/7-ways-support-your-teen-during-college-application-ellis-mba-phd/Contact Us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoaching

In this week's episode, I invited Eric Tivers, host of the popular ADHD ReWired Podcast, to join me on Focus Forward and we talked about the common feelings of shame experienced by individuals with ADHD. We explored the benefits of finding connection and support within the ADHD community and discussed some aspects of living a strategy-based life and take a little detour to talk about tennis and pickle ball scoring, classic ADHD tangent. Stick around to the end of our conversation to learn more about how to get in touch with Eric and about the high-quality services he and his team provide. Because of some timing and our Focus Forward hiatus, this episode was actually recorded back in May of this year, coinciding with my official ADHD diagnosis, and despite the time that has passed, the insights remain relevant. I'm delighted it's now October and ADHD awareness month so we can share this conversation with you all! Here are the show notes from today's episode:Hannah's guest appearance on ADHD ReWiredADHD ReWired Podcast2023 Annual International Conference on ADHDADHD Support Group SearchMy podcast episode with Dr. Jan WillerBeyond BookSmartHow to Keep Score in Pickle BallHow to Keep Score in TennisADHD ResourcesAdult ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS-v1.1)CHADDBeyond BookSmart's ADHD Success KitHow to Thrive with ADHD After a DiagnosisEp 13: How to Unlock the Superpowers of ADHDWomen's ADHD Wellbeing PodcastContact us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscriptHannah Choi 00:04Hi everyone and welcome to Focus Forward, an executive function podcast where we explore the challenges and celebrate the wins you'll experience as you change your life through working on improving your executive function skills. I'm your host, Hannah Choi. Hannah Choi 00:18Before I dive into this episode, I wanted to share a correction from our last episode, I mistakenly said that I had an appointment with a psychiatrist. Jan, who I interviewed caught this when she listened to the episode and helped me realize that I actually have an appointment with a licensed professional clinician, who in Connecticut anyway is qualified to evaluate people for ADHD. I don't know about you, but I find all of these titles quite confusing. But I am so glad I get to learn all about this and share it with you. Anyway, I wanted to share again what Jan taught me that psychiatrists are great for testing people with more complex brain issues. And people with master's levels degrees, who are qualified can diagnose ADHD even without a full neuro Psych Exam. I'm still going to pursue the test. Because you know me brain nerd. I'm super curious to learn more about how my own brain works. But please know that you absolutely don't have to do the same to get the help you need. Hannah Choi 01:22Okay, so it is still ADHD Awareness Month and I've got some exciting news to share. I will be attending the upcoming 2023 annual International Conference on ADHD in Baltimore at the end of November. I am headed there with three of my wise colleagues, Sean Potts, Justice Abbott, and Wendy Craven. We will have a Beyond Booksmart table in the exhibit hall. And we'll also be learning from some of the presenters who will be sharing their knowledge and experience with attendees. If you want to find out more about the conference, check out the show notes. There's a link down there. Hannah Choi 02:00And besides being all about ADHD, this conference has a special connection to today's guest. We are back with another ADHD themed episode for this month of ADHD awareness. At the end of the summer, I had the absolute pleasure of being a guest on the ADHD rewired podcast. It is hosted by the very funny and very smart Eric Tivers. We talked about finding success in college when you struggle with executive functioning skills. And when we spoke not only did Eric convince me that I had to go to the ADHD conference, okay, wait a second, convinced his way too strong of a verb. He just kind of mentioned it with enthusiasm. And of course, I was totally sold. So let's try that again. Not only did Eric inspire me to go to the conference, but he also shared that he'll be presenting at it on the topic of technology. Bonus. Okay, so, back to the meat of this episode, I invited Eric to join me on Focus Forward, and we talked about the common feelings of shame experienced by individuals with ADHD. We also explored the benefits of finding connection and support within the ADHD community. So keep listening to hear Eric share about the coaching groups and the adult study halls he offers to provide that essential support and community we discuss some aspects of living a strategy based life and take a little detour to talk about tennis and pickleball scoring, you know, classic ADHD tangent, and stick around to the end of our conversation to learn more about how to get in touch with Eric, and about the high quality services that he and his coaches provide. I really encourage you to check out the good work that he and his team are doing. You can also find links to his website in the show notes. Because of some timing and our Focus Forward hiatus, this episode was actually recorded back in May of this year, coinciding with my official ADHD diagnosis. And despite the time that has passed, the insights do remain relevant. I am delighted that it is now October so we can share this conversation with you all. Okay, on to the show. Hannah Choi 04:12So, hi, everyone. I'm here today with Eric Tivers, who is the host of the ADHD ReWired podcast and you do a lot of other stuff. So could you introduce yourself and maybe share what you do and short a brief explanation of how you even got to where you are today?Eric Tivers 04:36Sure, so I'll thank you for having me on. My name is Eric Tivers. I host the ADHD ReWired podcast. And, you know, we, I am a licensed clinical social worker. And I started ADHD ReWired back in 2014. When it was, you know, I didn't even know what I was really going to be dealing with it. It was sort of like I I know I have thoughts and ideas that I want to share. I don't really like to write, it's a struggle for me. So like podcast, and like when I was in grad school, I was really actually struggling with my ADHD. And I discovered podcasts around that. And I discovered this old, like, not even good quality podcast, but it was like raw and authentic. And I wanted you that one day, like that kind of stuck with me for a long time. Yeah. And, and then I mentioned, we launched the podcast, it first started as just a solo show. And then I sort of stumbled into an interview. And I was like, Oh, I like this way better. Because, you know, it's as trained as a therapist, like, I'm just a curious conversationalist, I guess. And it was, I just really enjoyed helping other people tell their story. And then sort of through that, I launched my first online coaching group and, and that wasn't even like a grand plan, either. That was sort of a, I had this idea. And it was, the idea came out of actually, like I was in therapy at the time. And I would like go to try to get to my therapist office, like about 20 minutes early, just so I can do the homework that I supposed to be working on. This is silly. You know, it's like I'm my clients, this whole working man, wish there something working just to have like, regular like check ins kind of touch points, just to kind of keep me on track throughout my week. And so I started looking online for stuff and like, there was nothing. There was no one doing anything like that. So I created that. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean, it was like, where it is now to where it was when I first heard the very first version of it. I don't know if you ever heard the idea that a few are not kind of you don't cringe at your like earliest stuff you put out there, like you waited too long to start. I definitely cringe at some of the first stuff like we did, like, we didn't even have like a concrete schedule for the first season of coaching group that we did. Like it was like every week, like alright, what's good for me, I Oh, my God, that's an awful idea.Hannah Choi 06:55But you know what I love I love that, that you cannot wait for perfection to start, just just start and then it will evolve into what it's supposed to be. Eric Tivers 07:06Yeah, so you know, now here I am. You know, we're recording this on May 5, I'll happy Cinco Demayo. And, you know, we're, I think I, we just released episode 480 something. And you know, and I have experimented, and I've done different iterations of stuff on the podcast, and it's been super fun. You know, and there's no way I would have been doing a podcast from 10 years. Now, if I didn't love what I'm doing, right. It's amazing. So these coaching groups, they just kind of they almost kind of life of themselves, like they know, they were feeling really fast. And then I started doing two coaching groups at a time the manager didn't three coaching groups at a time. And then I was burning out a little bit. So I scaled back at two. I closed my clinical practice to focus exclusively on the coaching groups. So we've had over 1000 people go through the program. We're on our, we just started at registration for our summer season will be our 33rd season.Hannah Choi 08:04Oh my goodness, congratulations. Eric Tivers 08:07Thank you. Thanks. Hannah Choi 08:07That is awesome.Eric Tivers 08:08Yeah. And so we've been we've been growing, I got a couple of coaches that work with me, and, you know, learning all the kind of the leadership stuff there, which is, it's way harder than I ever imagined it would be like, I gotta figure it out, then I'm like, no, no, no more to learn. So it's it is like, I'm going back for seconds and thirds of humble pie on a regular basis.Hannah Choi 08:33I have a colleague who always says, always learning and growing and I love that. That's so true.Eric Tivers 08:39Yeah. I mean, as soon as you think you, you know everything, then that's where you get into trouble.Hannah Choi 08:43Yes, that's right. So I love thinking about all the people in your that that you have encountered that are now probably so much more confident, and so much more sure of their own abilities, despite their executive function challenges, despite their ADHD, so congrats to you and everyone that works for you for creating that space for people.Eric Tivers 09:10Well, I definitely didn't do it. I'm I mean, I've had lots of lots of help lots of other people who do a lot of stuff sort of on the back end. And, you know, we have we have a very active alumni community too. And a lot of our a lot we have. And when I open up the alumni community, it's because people will kept like re signing up for the group to do it again. And and so people were asking, was there anything else we could do after this? And like, maybe, and so maybe three or four years ago, we started this, the alumni community, and it's been wonderful. We have a bunch of different of our alumni who are leading peer based sessions each week. And so it's really cool because it's like, I tell people, one of the best things I do for my own ADHD is this work because it kind of makes me think about it all the time after like, I can't go into autopilot. I think a lot of other people feel that same way. It's like when they and sort of give back and be in some kind of leadership role in the community, it helps them stay on top of their own stuff.Hannah Choi 10:06Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I find that as a coach, you know, just talking about it all the time with my clients, and, you know, trying to think of news, like help them come up with new solutions for whatever challenge that they're dealing with it, that kind of thinking becomes a habit, and then you just kind of do it for yourself or, yeah.Eric Tivers 10:27So yeah, so that's kind of when we have our we have an adult study hall, it's a co-working community, which, so that's, that's another thing we have been working on. So yeah, lots of lots of things in the fire and, you know, experimenting with different things. And you know, one thing that is that is constant is that things are always changing.Hannah Choi 10:47So something that you and I had talked about before we recorded was the idea of community. And I really think that, that you are creating that community with the work that you're doing. And I just, we just dropped an episode the other day, I interviewed two social workers and their coach. And we talked a lot about how important validation is, and how important finding your flock is. And so I'm sure through that experience, you are creating that in a way for people.Eric Tivers 11:28Yeah, you know, one of the things because people always ask me, like, Well, how do I know if I should do group? Or if I should do one on one? And, you know, I would I, I tell them, I have a strong bias towards group. Because there's, you know, I and I've done intensive one on one coaching with people. And, you know, I tell them that I'm kind of a sucker for, like, positive reinforcement. And when I see people doing like, like, profoundly better. To me, that's like, my big shiny gold star. Right. And with group there's, there's just something that's, you know, it's funny, I'm very science based person, but like, it's, I think it's just magic, what happens in group, I, because it is, you know, we see ourselves in each other, and we are so much more generous and compassionate towards others, others are having the same struggles. And then, you know, when we see that kind of what they're doing and where they're coming out, they're they're doing all these great things. And yet, they're being so hard on themselves. And then there's that recognition of like, oh, wait a minute. Like you have these these mirrors that are reflecting you, back to you. Right, except now there's no judgment being Hannah Choi 12:35Yeah. That's awesome. That's powerful. Eric Tivers 12:39that that me too, is super, super powerful. Yeah, and I always tell people to I'm like, I just want to be really clear before we, there's any, like, ideas, that I have all my stuff together, because I don't, I am working on all the same stuff, too. I mean, being consistent, you know, it's like, I get the planning and then I stop looking at the planning, right, I gotta come back to it. And so really, what I think what community has really done one of the strengths of, of community is resilience. It is a sort of a resilience incubator. Yeah, because we're kind of be inconsistent with ADHD, it's just, you know, it's and I'm not saying that, like, it's just is what it is, you know, but it's part of it's part of ADHD, the consistency. So what we can do is skip the part, when we've fallen off what we want to be doing, we can skip the part of beating ourselves up, and we can reach out for help as a ham struggling here. Yeah, well, we get when we can say it, when we can speak the thing that we're instead of like being silenced in silent and shame. I mean, that because that that shame piece it is it's significant, it is really significant. And when you're in a community of people who get it because they also live it and your non judgmental support. It's, it's really profound, you know, it's, it's kind of like a rabid onion pillar, right? If people come in for white, like, I just want to get my planning and time management stuff figured out. It's like, work on that. But keep keep an open mind, because there's a way like, you can't not deal with the shame stuff when you're dealing planning. And anything that at the planning of time management when you have ADHD. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's not just the planning. It's not just the time now.Hannah Choi 14:24Yeah, yeah. And that's something that we talked about in that conversation was how tightly wrapped our executive function skills are with our emotions, and how and how the context in which we are talking about is how coaching sessions can can often sometimes feel like therapy, and it's because you cannot, you just can't separate that. And so being able to, like you said, you have that mirror to reflect yourself back to yourself without that judgment is such a nice way of of dealing with those emotions. I'm not sure how to explain what I'm saying. And I'm sure you know what I mean. I just I love that. I love that. Eric Tivers 15:07Well, your executive, its executive functions are self. It's about self regulation. Yeah.Hannah Choi 15:13Right. Yeah. And it comes down to it, you know,Eric Tivers 15:16I mean, it's, it's the self regulatory stuff that we have intentions of doing. And that impacts, like the things we're trying to do. I think like, like Russell Barkley talks about an executive functions, any goal oriented behavior that you sort of put out to the world, and it comes back to you in some way. So it's like, even if it's like, it's as simple as getting dressed, right? Like, your intention is, you gotta get up before you get dressed. Right. And, yeah, if you are successful with it, you got clothes on your body, right? Hannah Choi 15:42That's so funny. That's the example I always use. Like, you have some executive function skills, because you're wearing clothes. Eric Tivers 15:49Yeah, you know, are looking at like emotional self regulation, if you are employed. And you think that your boss is a jerk, and you let them know that and your goal is to get a promotion. And instead, you're actually shutting the door, because you can get yourself fired because you mouthed off to your boss, right? That ability to take a deep breath when you're in that that space. Like, you know, it's, it's hard. It's hard to do. Yeah.Hannah Choi 16:15Well, I, I haven't shared this yet on the podcast, but by the time people listen to this episode, they will know, I just got diagnosed with ADHD, which I am so happy about, because it has answered everything. And I'm sure this is the story that you've heard from so many people. And all of that has, over the past few weeks when I've been thinking about it, and I feel like I am calming my, I'm like giving my self a hug my past self. And like, you know, just and so and, and that whole shame piece. And the whole inner narrative really comes up a lot for people with ADHD or for people just who are struggling with anything, really, because there's this sort of this message that we receive from society that we're supposed to be just like, amazingly successful at everything all the time. And you have to like, especially as a mom, like you're supposed to do all these things plus, like have a really beautiful Instagram feed and be like selling cookies on the side or whatever.Eric Tivers 17:24And make it all look easy, right? Hannah Choi 17:26Yeah, yeah. And it's just not easy for anybody. And if you're additionally, you know, dealing with executive function challenges, if, because of any diagnosis, and it just makes everything a lot harder. So, yeah, so being able to being able to talk about it and to, and to address it in a really safe and encouraging and warm way is is really wonderful. So I'm really glad you're able to provide that for to your, to your coaching groups.Eric Tivers 18:02 It's so it's so interesting. First of all, congratulations on this.Hannah Choi 18:05Thanks. Thank you.Eric Tivers 18:07And you're in it's so interesting, too, because so many people who have such a wide variety of responses to Yeah, that diagnosis. And it's, it's really kind of striking, like how many people I've spoken with throughout the years who who've been professionals in the ADHD space, didn't think they had ADHD going. And then like, years and years later realize, I actually do, and it's so funny, because I have always like, was like, just thought that was a really like, Ha, what what would that be like to experience that? And I see it, because right now, and I have not gotten an official diagnosis. But I did recently take an online evaluation for autism. And I had a highly what I didn't mention is that part of my clinical practice, before I closed my clinical practice was specializing in autism. Okay, and so, you know, my, I have a 11 year old son who has has autism and ADHD. So it's like, you know, I used to speak and present on this stuff. And yeah, you know, in part of, and I was, I was mentioning at the top of the show, about, like, how, you know, leadership has been serving me some humble pie. And it because part of it's like some of the social stuff that I think I've been Miss reading and I'm like, right, and so like, I'm always someone who's always trying to do better. And it's like, if, and so what I'm sort of seeing a certain pattern, I'm like, okay, like, this is something other than like this than ADHD, like, I really tried to cultivate a culture of feedback in my community, with my team and yeah, I've gotten some little some hearts of your feedback, but like, thank goodness that some of my team has felt safe to Yeah, sure that I know. You know, it's sort of that that the only way I can sort of think about it as being like the the realization that maybe sometime Sam's coming off as an accidental a hole. And I'm just like, Oh my God. Yeah. And so it's been very humbling, recently something I'm still kind of working through. But you know, it's like, yeah, when we gain that self awareness, that that like, entry into a new space of awareness, that hurts like it. It is it is, you know, but I, you know, from the time I got diagnosed when I was 20 years old, I've been like, I'm this this sort of mission to keep uncovering blind spots. Because it's like, and I'm just understanding the concept that we all have blind spots. Yeah, right. Yeah. And knowing that, you know, that sort of like idea like, so if someone is not self aware, how do they know? Hannah Choi 20:49Yeah, I felt, and I don't know, maybe you feel this? It's almost freeing. I, as soon as she told me, you know, the results, I just felt this like, huge. Ah, okay. Now, I get it. And like you said, you're discovering things over the time, I have also been discovering things. And it's like, oh, that's why that happened. That's why I did that. And then I'm able to release myself of that burden of shame that I have been carrying for feeling so bad about that thing, whatever it was. It's kind of been like Christmas the past few weeks, I've just like opening up all these things. I hope you experienced the same thing with the air or maybe you already are with that. Eric Tivers 21:40Oh, I think I'll get I'll yeah, it's definitely a, it's like, hot, it's definitely been a little bit of a, it's like, I don't know, it's not like shocking, but it's, it's, I don't know, it's like, it's just humbling, it's what it's telling me where I can describe to describe her. And I was like, this feels very, very humbling. And just interesting. You know, it's, it's, if we are on, if we have that growth mindset, and we are open to feedback, you know, it's, I always tell people helping you to think that, like, the growth journey is a fun one. No, no, no, this is hard. This is our critical timeout for a little while. I tell you, you know, when anytime I have had big discoveries about myself, it has led to huge growth. And so I've always been open to trying to find those blind spots, even though I know it's gonna suck emotionally for a while. It has never, I've never not been grateful, in hindsight, for those discoveries. Hannah Choi 22:47And I see that a lot in my clients too. And I work with a lot of college kids and a lot, and what I've noticed is that a lot of them are still learning to be self aware. And they're still discovering aspects of themselves that they didn't know. And, and, and executive function coaching is such a great place to explore that it's such like a nice, safe, safe place, and so many different things that we can kind of test out and figure out and, and so much of my coaching comes back to asking why and so much of answering the question, why is becoming is by, you have to become self aware to answer that, why. And it can be really hard, like you said, it can be really hard to to admit, whatever the Y is, and, but that is the key to open the door to allow for that growth. And to, to be able to let go of whatever that shame is that you've been carrying around because of that challenge or limitation.Eric Tivers 23:45Yeah, it's I always tell my group members, like if you're not uncomfortable, like, lean in more. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's, you know, you're not, you don't have to be sort of in that state forever. And it doesn't last forever. It's, it's sort of it's episodic, you know, it's, you go through periods, and then you, you know, at least for me, it's like, figuring these things out. And then spending years on on like, honing in the skills and the pieces around that, that I need to and then it's like, as you develop mastery around different things, then you kind of the process repeats like, oh, new discoveries. Oh, again,Hannah Choi 24:21Yep. Or, Oh, I just got I found mastery, but I'm sliding because of whatever and now let's discover a new way to get myself back back in the game and and to be okay with that.Eric Tivers 24:32You know, it's funny too, because, like, one of the things that that I'm that I'm actually trying to work on now is being treated less sarcastic in different interactions. I guess it's funny, I was I was talking to my partner yesterday about this cuz she's been kind of helping me through through some of this. And like, when she kind of gave me this feedback about my sarcasm, and I found myself wanting to hold on to like, like gripping. But start I love beings. It's funny. Yeah, but not it's not always received as well as I think you think it is like, yeah. All right. I'm gonna sit with that for a while. And you know, it's it's having that courage to ask others like, hey, like, is this been your experience that like in our conversations? Yeah, so it's having those those courageous conversations. I mean, that's really what it's, it's about. Yep.Hannah Choi 25:21And I don't know if you've experienced this as hosting a podcast, but I feel like I experienced that every time I listened to a new episode or listened to anything that I've ever recorded. Like I, I go through that, like, Oh, God, why did I say that? Or why didn't I say it this other way? And then But then I always go back and say no, okay, now you have a chance to, to learn from that and to grow from that and to step even more outside your comfort zone and to challenge maybe challenge what you how you did something before and yeah,Eric Tivers 25:55Yeah, you know, to me, like, I love absurdity. Like, that's just like, absurdity is my sense of humor. Or it was probably where I like sarcasm, but I just, you know, I'm learning to be more careful about that. But like, when I think about just like, brains are funny, glitchy and they are, like, you know, if we can, instead of being so hard on ourselves, like, why can't I do this, like, drive, we were talking before I hit record, like, I love playing pickleball I cannot remember the score during the game. For me, it is like to be in like one of those like baseball pitch counters and just like holding my other hand, butHannah Choi 26:35then you'd have to remember to use it.Eric Tivers 26:40And I always feel really at home when everybody else I'm playing with also can't remember the score. I'm just like, I think it'll be like, Well, what's your excuse? Because, you know, one of the younger ones there? And it's like, yeah, it's called ADHD.Hannah Choi 26:55It's not my age. Yeah. Oh, man.Eric Tivers 26:58It's it's funny. I'll, I'll say the score my head over and over again. And then one for one moment, I'm thinking about something else. And I forgot score. Hannah Choi 27:05Oh, my God, I feel you I just like relate to that so much. I just started, I started playing tennis and this a year ago, with my sister who's actually quite good at keeping track of the score, and I'm always like, I think I just need to play with her all the time. I'm the same way. I'm like, Alright, I got it. And I don't I actually and I don't even know which side of the court I'm supposed to be on right now.Eric Tivers 27:31With tennis is like the funny scoring it like, right?Hannah Choi 27:34Yeah, it's so weird. Yeah. And then if you play doubles in pickleball, it's even weirder, because then you have to say, like, if you're serving first or second, right?Eric Tivers 27:44Well, I typically only played doubles have, like, I don't, I don't want singles. I mean, it's a it's an amazing workout to play singles, because it's like, oh, my god, she has to be everywhere. I like doubles. So I don't know. It's but you're right. Because you have to say which, which, which serve it is.Hannah Choi 28:01It's too confusing for me. And we just play we just hit the ball around and be like, Yeah, we both won. Or we all win. Yeah, Everyone's a winner. Yes. What were we talking about? Speaking of forgetting things.Eric Tivers 28:22Brains are funny.Hannah Choi 28:23Brains. Brains. Yes, I love the brain. And I love helping people understand why they do what they do, because of their brains. And helping people learn strategies that can help them use their brains to their advantage instead of being sort of taken over by their brain. So like a lot of that emotional regulation is a huge part of my coaching. And, and I love just learning about it and teaching people about it.Eric Tivers 28:54You know, within that frame. There's this idea that I that I talk about my groups that, you know, if you're wanting to be successful, and you have ADHD, you have to learn how to bend the world to you. Because like, the world is not bending the other way. Like the world's not reaching out to say, Hey, how can I accommodate you? Right? Like, yeah, we get all this paperwork is really hard. Like, it's like planning this, you get it with paper, and it's, you know, your teacher tells you about it, you know, in the first day class never mentioned it again, like, right, we have to develop these strategies to really scaffold the things that we need around us. And be you being okay with that too. And that's such an important and I think for a lot of people a really hard thing because, you know, I always said who I am, we are not trying to get you to learn how to be normal. Like that is not our goal. Right? Like that is like that is our goal to make sure that that like you don't want that to be your goal, because that is like that will be a goal that you'll you're not going to achieveHannah Choi 29:57And we want to preserve your uniqueness, right. Yes. See?Eric Tivers 30:00Yes, yeah, you know, so whatever, like, whatever you need, like, just kind of figure out how to, you know how to advocate for it, how to ask for it, you know, when something that kind of informs a lot of the work that I do, and even my personal life was based on some work that I did when I was in grad school. And so it was around my dissertation, and it was looking at, what does it take for students with invisible disabilities and ADHD, learning disabilities, dyslexia, etc, to be successful in adulthood. And what they found is that it is not the diagnosis that is preventing people from having the same sort of measures of success compared to their peers, it's if they have high levels of self awareness, if they have self determination, and good self advocacy skills, like, if you look just at the sort of the outcome measures, whether it's income, educational attainment, just overall life satisfaction, you got those three things, when you have ADHD or something like it, right, you're going to do just as well, like, that doesn't mean that things aren't going to be sometimes harder, like they will be. But like, You got to be willing to do the stuff and make sure that you love what you're doing. Because that's another thing our ADHD, it's like, we don't really have that, that, you know, the luxury of doing work that we don't loveHannah Choi 31:22Right. Yes, yes. It's very hard to keep that going. Eric Tivers 31:27Right, right. I know for a little while, but youHannah Choi 31:31Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So much of that, that those those aspects that you named are part of figuring out, or you it's, you can find those when you have that opportunity to learn about yourself and ask those questions and discover the different aspects of you that yeah, they don't fit into this system of the world that is out there. And that, but then, like you said, That's okay. So let's figure out how we can just just embrace that and use it as a as a benefit and use it as a, you know, something that can take you to places that you might not go if you're more of a linear thinker, or if you are more of like a round peg in a round hole?Eric Tivers 32:19For sure, for sure. Yeah. Cuz it's, you know, managing life and you have ADHD requires coming up with 1001 Little strategies, like it really is. It's, and it's this idea of living a strategy based life. Right? It's like, when we were kids, okay, I'm struggling with that, right? What can I do? That didn't work? What else could I do? Alright, that worked for like two weeks, that's not working anymore. What else can I try? Right? It's, and if we can stay open to, you know, just being curious of what works, what's getting in the way, we'll get there. Maybe it's, I think one of the things that I think is helpful for us to remember with ADHD is that, you know, we want progress yesterday. You know, stick with it, like, you look back and serious of yours, and you'll see the growth. But if you're just like in the moment, like week to week, it can be really hard to see the growth. And if you're really doing the work, it can actually sometimes feel like you're doing worse, when you're actually doing better. And that's called a self awareness that is growing self awareness makes us feel like we're doing worse, even though we're not Hannah Choi 33:21Yeah, you know, something, how you mentioned this strategy based life. I remember when I told my colleague who is also the, the editor and producer of our podcast, Sean, who also has ADHD was diagnosed when he was 12. He said to me, I'm so surprised to hear that you have ADHD and I and he said, You have such good executive function skills. And that and I said, I think it's because I am exhausted from using strategies all the time. Like, all the time, I keep my shit together, for the most part, because I am constantly using strategies, which is, frankly, completely exhausting. And, and, and so often I find myself or have found myself saying, why can't I just do this without fill in the blank? And, and now I can say it's okay. At least you're doing it with that thing. You're not just like not doing it?Eric Tivers 34:21Yeah, and you know, and one of the things too, is is like, find me strategies, but then you got to adopt them are destined for to make them work for you. Yeah, you know, like, in our in our groups, we you know, we have a lot of these frameworks, but we really try to explain this as they think about everything we're sharing as sort of this is the sandbox for you, right? Like play with it and make it your own like you have this this worksheet for planning like you don't like the way that it's laid out, like, recreate it for yourself. So it like resonates with your brain, like break what we're doing. If we're telling you something that is different than what you do You want to do what's currently working? Ignore what we're telling you. Don't try to fix what's not broken. Yes, right.Hannah Choi 35:07Yes. Well, this has been so great talking to you. And, and thank you so much. You're actually the first person that I've told outside of my family, that I have ADHD but and it's not because of a shame place. It's just because I haven't. I haven't really said ADHD episode yet. And so I just kind of saving it for that. But it it's talking about community and, and, and hearing yourself in someone else's voice. I experienced the benefit of that today in our conversations. So I just like I said before, I'll say it again, I'm so glad that you're creating those spaces for people because I know that it's highly needed.Eric Tivers 35:54Well, congratulations. And it's it's it's super exciting. You know, it's it's just knowing that we have like, a hole that just opens up so many, like opportunities and things to explore that we can learn about when we have like, Oh, this is why we're, we're struggling, you know, yeah, great. Thanks. Because it really, you know, out of all out of all the disorders, really, I mean, it's, I think ADHD is one of the most manageable, but it could also be one of the biggest, you know, pains in the butt if you're not managing it, right, because it will remind you on a regular basis, you have ADHD, if you're not like paying attention to it. I tell people that we don't have the luxury to do left on autopilot. Like we will crash and burn. And if we think yeah, do like autopilot.Hannah Choi 36:40Yeah, I'm so glad there's that the stigma around being neurodivergent is really starting to break down and that more people are having these really important conversations. And I'm so glad that you have so many listeners, and I hope I start to have more listeners, because these conversations people need to hear them, they need to get that validation that it's okay to struggle. And there are there are options, there are questions that you can ask and answers that you can find.Eric Tivers 37:12You don't need to struggle alone, you know, yeah, yeah. Yeah.Hannah Choi 37:15So could you share your contact information and where people can find you, because I'm sure people are going to be really curious about learning more.Eric Tivers 37:24Yeah, best best place to reach me would be at my website, which is ADHDrewired.com. Since you are listening to this, you listen to podcasts. So you can also use whatever podcast app you're listening to and search for ADHD ReWired. And, you know, when we have our coaching groups, you know, our, I don't know, when this episode's gonna come out, but we we do them a couple times a year. In the end, they're intense, if you're looking for, like, if you're someone who does, well look almost like that boot camp style of like, Alright, I'm going to full immersion. Like, it's, you know, it's like a six to sometimes up to 10 hours a week, we do three sessions a week, you have a four person accountability team that you meet with twice a week where you do masterminds with, and then all the other stuff that we have available in our alumni community. So it's really designed to not just help you learn some skills, but to really, it's about, you know, the shame, resilience is about getting self awareness, and then, you know, having a safe space to practice learning skills.Hannah Choi 38:23I love that. And I have to put a plug in for your podcast. It's great. It's I love, I listened to a bunch of episodes and, and they're long, but the conversations are so interesting, and so relatable. And I love how many wide variety of topics you have. There's kind of something for everybody in there. Eric Tivers 38:43Well, thank you for doing the work that you're doing. This is wonderful. And thanks for letting me be on the other side of the mic. It's fun.Hannah Choi 38:49Yeah. Great. And I look forward to being on the other side of the mic with you as well, later on in the year.Eric Tivers 38:57Whenever that's on the calendar, whatever. Right now, so we have no idea when.Hannah Choi 39:03We have no idea. But it's happening. We know that yes, yes. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Eric. Take care. You too. Hannah Choi 39:12And that is our show for today. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. And if you know anyone who might relate to any of it, please share this episode with them. I hope we get to see you at the ADHD Conference in Baltimore. If you go stop by our booth number 112 in the exhibit hall and say hi. Until then you can reach out to me at podcast@beyondbooksmart.com. Please subscribe to focus forward on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. If you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can give us a boost by giving us a five star rating will love you for it. Sign up for our newsletter at beyond booksmart.com/podcast and we'll let you know when new episodes drop and we will share information related to the topic. Thanks for listening

Hey, we're back! I'm so excited to bring you the first of many new episodes in our 3rd season of Focus Forward. Considering it's ADHD awareness month, I wanted to explore something relating ADHD that we hadn't done before. In this week's episode, we're tackling adult ADHD and the life-changing journey of getting a late diagnosis. This episode is particularly special for me as it documents my own personal journey in discovering that I have ADHD (in real time!) This journey of revelation began with a conversation I had last year with Dr. Jan Willer - a clinical psychologist who specializes in supporting those with ADHD. After our conversation, I began to seriously suspect that I, too, might have ADHD. In this episode, we'll explore the difficult question of "do I have ADHD or not?" and the impact that getting a diagnosis can have on our life and sense of self. I hope you enjoy this one! Resources Related to this EpisodeDr. Jan Willer's ResourcesJan's books on AmazonADHD ResourcesAdult ADHD Self-Report Scale (ASRS-v1.1)CHADDAdult ADHD ToolkitBeyond BookSmart's ADHD Success KitHow to Thrive with ADHD After a DiagnosisEp 13: How to Unlock the Superpowers of ADHDWomen's ADHD Wellbeing PodcastContact us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscriptHannah Choi 00:04Hi everyone and welcome to Focus Forward: An Executive Function Podcast where we explore the challenges and celebrate the wins you'll experience as you change your life through working on improving your executive function skills. I'm your host, Hannah Choi. Hannah Choi 00:18We are back after our summer break. Yay. Today's episode is super special. Not only is it our first episode of season three, but it is also our 30th episode. I know there are podcasts out there with hundreds and hundreds of episodes. But I just have to say I'm super proud of this achievement, and I'm so glad you're here with me today to celebrate. On top of all that fun stuff is also ADHD Awareness Month. In today's episode, I'm going to share some of my own ADHD story which all started when someone very close to me was diagnosed a couple of years ago. hearing their story got me thinking about my own life experience through an ADHD lens. I recorded the ADHD episode and have an excuse me had a couple of clients whose challenges I could relate to more than just a little bit of a coincidence. Dr. Sherrie All, the star of the Focus Forward episode 16 all about memory connected me with Dr. Jan Willer, a licensed clinical psychologist who lives in Chicago, and she has written two books for practitioners - Could It Be Adult ADHD?, and The Beginning Psychotherapist's Companion, I thought Jan would be a great person to talk with. Jan and I recorded twice, once back in January and the second time just last month in September. The first time we talked about ADHD and what it is, and then spent a while talking about my own experience and symptoms. In September, we met again to reconnect and talk about the post diagnosis experience, and how people can both support themselves or the people they love who have ADHD. So today's episode is all about ADHD. And because it's ADHD Awareness Month, I hope my story helps someone out there find the confidence to go get tested. As you'll hear it has been a positive and life changing experience for me. So first up is our conversation from January. Hannah Choi 02:20Hi, Jan, thank you so much for joining me on focus forward.Jan Willer, PhD 02:25I am really excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.Hannah Choi 02:29This is take two right? We tried last week but my, I'm a migraine person and my migraines got in the way. So I'm glad we're able to do this today. Glad I migraine free today. Yeah, so we are going to talk about ADHD in adults and what that experience is like for people and how they got there. And so can you share a little bit with our listeners about why about why I'm talking to you about ADHD?Jan Willer, PhD 03:03Sure, yeah, I'm happy to talk about that. Well, I've been interested in ADHD for a good while. And actually a number of years ago, a psychiatrist that I would refer to would start referring adult ADHD clients, to me just kind of out of nowhere. And at that point in time, I didn't know very much about ADHD in adults. And just as a little sidebar, graduate schools usually don't teach very much about adult ADHD. And so every mental health professional out there who knows much about it has taught themselves and gone to seminars and that type of thing. But anyway, so I started teaching myself about it. And the more I learned, the more interested I became, and, you know, it's just a population of folks who really are undertreated a lot of the time and a little education and a little help with executive functioning issues can go and maybe a little bit of medication can really go a very long way in terms of helping people feel better and feel like they're functioning better as well.Hannah Choi 04:16I see that in the clients, the adult clients that I've worked with, where they have experienced exactly that with a little bit of medication, a little bit executive function, coaching, and just like a lot of knowledge, it's really made some big differences. What are what brings someone what are the questions that people have when they come to say, like, I think I might have ADHD?Jan Willer, PhD 04:41Well, a lot of the time, people will come to me and they've already been wondering about whether they have ADHD for a long time. And many people who've had ADHD their entire lives, were not diagnosed as children. And it used you know, back in the old days, it used to be thought that if it wasn't really obvious as a child, and the child wasn't pretty impaired from ADHD, then a person who is an adult couldn't possibly have ADHD. Now we know now that that's not true, because there's a lot of folks who don't get diagnosed for various reasons. Maybe because they just had inattentive type ADHD, and they were well behaved kids. And so, and they were, you know, pretty smart, and they just kind of flew under the radar and their grades weren't amazing, but they weren't disrupting the class, and they were just kind of daydreaming. And, you know, nobody really noticed that they were having some learning issues. So a lot of the time, those are the folks that kind of end up coming to us. But also, sometimes people may have had some hyperactivity as a kid, but their parents, and their schools really recognize that they need a lot of exercise. And so they would get put into sports and all kinds of camps that gave him plenty of exercise and this, so they coped, okay. And they didn't have behavior issues. So, you know, in the past, most of the folks with ADHD who are identified as children were people who had behavior issues, and usually white boys as well. But now we realize that anybody could have ADHD. And, and I think that is that information has gotten out into the popular consciousness. And so people are soaking that up and going, Oh, wow, maybe I have that. That sounds kind of like me. I just thought it was a flaw I had, but maybe I have ADHD.Hannah Choi 06:46So something that I've noticed, just in my observations of people talking about, if they have ADHD, or if they wonder if they do, I have noticed. And I think that there is a stigma around around it around being diagnosed with it and around having those challenges. Do you see that in the people that come to you do, do they express those hesitations?Jan Willer, PhD 07:16You know, I think it varies a lot by the age of the person. Because it seems like, you know, young adults have are much more knowledgeable about people who are neurodivergent, and often seem to have a lot less stigma about that, you know, they understand that people is some people have ADHD, some people are autistic, it's, you know, it's not necessarily such a big deal to them. It's just more a recognition of individual differences. But for people who are, you know, middle aged and older, for sure, and possibly also younger than that, it kind of depends on you know, the environment the person grew up in, they're often did grow up at a time where there was a lot of stigma about having ADHD. And there were a lot of stereotypes about people who had ADHD, which were often wrong. And there may not have even been an understanding that ADHD lasted to adulthood. And so they've often just internalized a lot of shame about some of their life challenges that are very, like completely related to ADHD.Hannah Choi 08:30Can you just talk a little bit about what ADHD is for any listeners who might just kind of have like a surface knowledge of it? And maybe we can help any listeners who might be questioning whether they they might and then maybe some, maybe you could share like some symptoms or some characteristics that aren't necessarily fully known? I mean, that the name of it ADHD, like is Attention Deficit Hyperactive disorder, but like you said before, many people can have ADHD but be the inattentive type. So maybe just share a little bit about what it is.Jan Willer, PhD 09:09Sure, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the first type of symptom of ADHD that was really recognized was the hyperactivity. And you know, if you've ever seen a hyperactive kid, that's pretty obvious. I mean, that's a kid that's just bouncing off the walls full of energies, maybe really talkative. And so, and then over time, it became clear that a lot of those kids also had some challenges with paying attention, despite, you know, in addition to their high energy level and tendency to bounce off the walls, and then it became clear that there are kids who had the inattentiveness alone. They didn't have the hyperactivity, but they still had a hard time paying attention consistently, especially in school and that was kind of where it was the most obvious but, you know, sometimes that home to their parents would say do this or that and they just kind of lose track of it didn't really absorb that information, or procrastinated, which can be a symptom of ADHD too. And then, you know, as things went along, people started to recognize that for most people, they do not grow out of ADHD. Most ADHD does last to adulthood, not every single one. But most, for sure. And as they recognize that ADHD, lastly to adulthood, they would see that adults with ADHD had a lot of executive functioning problems. And I'm sure that your listeners have a good understanding by now of what executive functioning. So I'm not gonna go into detail about that, because I'm sure you've covered that in a lot of different podcasts. Yeah. And the they actually, many experts actually consider the executive functioning problems to be more disabling for people who have ADHD as adults than either inattention or hyperactivity. Yeah. And we'll see that too. Sure. And when you look back at people who have ADHD as adults, it turns out that the executive functioning problems are a lifelong problem. They're just less obvious in kids, because with kids, the adults in their lives, be it their teachers and parents, you know, other other adults will structure their lives for them. And so they don't have to do as much executive functioning as an adult. That's right. And often, when people who have ADHD go off to college or leave home for the first time, they may, they often do have a lot of struggles initially, because they're not used to doing their own structuring for themselves.Hannah Choi 12:02Yeah, absolutely. I see. And most of my clients are college kids. And that's exactly what I see. Every pretty much in every every client, like, Wow, a lot of things were structured for me in high school. And I thought that I could, you know, just keep up doing the same thing once I got to college and wait a second. Not exactly working out as I thought it would. Jan Willer, PhD 12:24Yeah, and things can really fall apart pretty fast. Because nobody's telling them to get up. And people who have ADHD have a tendency to be night owls. And so, and especially, and sometimes it's so extreme that they could even get a diagnosis of delayed sleep phase disorder, which is a sleep disorder. And so that difficulty getting up to go to things, stay up till three in the morning, hanging out with friends playing video games, whatever, you know, and then they don't want to get up until 11. And class was it 9:30? Yeah, yeah. So there's can be a lot of different pieces to the difficulties that college students can have.Hannah Choi 13:07I know a big part of ADHD for kids and adults. But maybe we can talk about adults here is the self regulation and emotional regulation. How, how does that show up? What do you see in your practice?Jan Willer, PhD 13:23Yeah, I mean, that is indeed a common problem. And about half of people who have ADHD as adults do have this emotional dysregulation problem. And what it consists of is, when people have something stressful, occur, they tend to be especially reacted to that. And it could be just kind of ordinary stuff, like somebody cutting you off in traffic, or it could be something bigger, like, you know, some family crisis or something, or, you know, just a minor change, like, you know, they were looking for peppers in the refrigerator, and they didn't have any, and they were going to, that was going to be a key part of what they're going to make for dinner. And so these stressors, whether they're big or even little, can lead to some pretty intense emotional reactions for the person and the person can feel irritated and frustrated and aggravated. And, you know, depending on the individual, some people have kind of learned to hold all that in because they've realized that other people don't react well, when they're next to somebody who's really, you know, having an outburst about a minor stressor, but other people don't have the, you know, ability, at least in that moment to hold that in and may have, you know, a verbal outburst or a temper outburst or something in response. And that can be, you know, really challenging for the person because they look around at everybody else and they're like, wait a minute, these other people are having stressors to, but I'm reacting somewhat differently from them. And again, this is sometimes where there's shame or embarrassment. Because the person then feels bad about themselves for having a strong emotional reaction when other people might not. Yeah. But unfortunately, it can be a part of their ADHD struggle.Hannah Choi 15:22That's so interesting. I didn't ever know that, that that how closely connected that was to ADHD?Jan Willer, PhD 15:29Yeah, it really should be a symptom that is in the official diagnostic manual, but it's not.Hannah Choi 15:36What are some other symptoms that people might not know about?Jan Willer, PhD 15:40You know, that's a really good question. One symptom that I actually see all the time, is that often people who have ADHD have a really hard time getting to sleep. And they lie down in bed, and they're ready to go to sleep. And their brain just starts going and going and going. And it's very active. You know, folks who don't have ADHD, when they lie down and go to sleep, their brain is kind of like slowing down and not very full of stuff. As long as they're not stressed or anxious about something, yeah. But a person who has ADHD, their brain just tends to be at very active all the time. And that's not true for everybody. But it's true for a very large proportion of people who have ADHD and, and their brains activity will keep them awake. And they may stay awake for an hour when they're trying to go to sleep with their brain just churning over all kinds of different stuff. The default mode network is a network that so the brain has many different networks of connectivity. And the default mode network is one of those. And they call it that because they people used to think that if you weren't doing something, then your brain wasn't thinking about anything. Now, anyone who has tried to meditate knows that that's ridiculous. Yes. Because of you not doing anything, which is what meditation is, to some extent about your brain is full of ideas. And yeah. So so that's the default mode network kind of churning up ideas and thoughts about your life and how we what's just going on with you what you plan on doing just any old random thoughts about your life. And that area does tend to be extra active and people who have ADHD, which is I like you're pointing out the connection to the sleep onset problem. Yeah, right. Also, that area is supposed to be kind of quieted down, when you're working on a task, that since that area tends to be extra active, and people who have ADHD, often one piece of their challenges with distractibility is that they are distracted by their own thoughts when they're trying to work on things. Right. And so they're really trying to focus that their own thoughts are interrupting their thought process. And a final thing that is probably related to the default mode network in ADHD is that people who, there's a little bit of research, unfortunately, there is really isn't enough research on the positive aspects of ADHD. But there is a little bit of research indicating that people who have ADHD tend to be more creative than the average person, and tend to be really great at brainstorming and thinking up lots of ideas. Hannah Choi 18:41I was reading about that. And, and the article was saying that it may be because they're able to not gonna remember the whole brain part of it, but they're able to make connections that might not necessarily be able to be made by someone as easily if they don't have ADHD. Jan Willer, PhD 19:03Yeah, absolutely. Sort of. Yeah, that thinks ability in that part of the creativity of the ADHD brain for sure. Yeah.Hannah Choi 19:10Yeah. Huh. It's interesting that if there's one thing that you said was like, not everybody experiences that not being able to fall asleep bit. So what do you think? When when, like, not everyone with ADHD has all the same symptoms? And like, why do you know why that is? And no, it's just probably because we're just all different. But it's so interesting that some people can quiet their default mode network and then others can't. Jan Willer, PhD 19:41Yeah, it is kind of fascinating, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I think that part of that has to do with the fact that ADHD, there's no one gene that ADHD is carried on right there. There's a lot of research about genetics and ADHD and a lot of it on us Sleep is way too technical for me. But yeah, I can read enough of it understand that there are dozens of genes at least that affect whether a person has ADHD. Okay, and if so to help what degree? Yeah, because some people have a lot of ADHD, some people have a little bit and some people have none. So, right. Right. And that, you know, plus everybody has a different life that they've been through was raised a different way. And so, you know, sometimes I see people with, you know, pretty significant ADHD symptoms, but they have no problem keeping track of their calendar, because they've had folks working with them their whole life about how important that is. And they've really got the skills down.Hannah Choi 20:43Right. Yeah, I imagine, like so much of your about of how your ADHD affects you, as an adult, is decided by just the strategies and the skills that you've learned and the awareness that you have of yourself and the impact that your behaviors have on your life and on others. And with kids. It's harder for them because they they haven't learned to that. Yeah, they just haven't been around long enough to, to kind of know that sort of stuff.Jan Willer, PhD 21:19Yeah, exactly. And, you know, with my client, adult clients, I don't work with kids. I tell them that one advantage that they're bringing to working with their ADHD is maturity. Yeah. Right. Because having that insight into how some of these challenges of ADHD have affected their life negatively, provides a lot of motivation to work on.Hannah Choi 21:45I interviewed Nancy Armstrong, who was the executive producer on a documentary called "The Disruptor"s and, and that her documentary, really highlights, it definitely explores the challenges. And it also highlights the positive side of ADHD. And that's and their work. Yeah, it's, it's a great, it's a great watch. They're working really hard to dispel a lot of the myths around ADHD and, and help people find the positives. So in your opinion, what are some of the positives? Jan Willer, PhD 22:19Well, we've already mentioned a lot of them, right? The artistic creativity can be one of them, out of the box, thinking of being more of a divergent thinker who's able to connect a lot of different things. I think that because of people having that out of the box thinking, they're often really valuable team members. And, you know, I personally have, of course, I have no proof of this. But my personal belief is that the reason that the genes for ADHD survive in the population is because it's so helpful in any group of people to have somebody who is really creative and full of all kinds of ideas and thinks about things in a really different way. And, you know, to some extent, that might be true of autism as well.Hannah Choi 23:12So it's really interesting talking with you. And I know, it was a conversation that we had the other day before we came on, and in all the research that I've been doing, and all the clients that I've worked with, I'm realizing the more and more I read and the more and more I talk with people that I really think that I probably have our head like had as a child and still have the inattentive type. So much of, of what I've read, and just things that people have said, I'm like, Oh, my God, that just, I feel validated when I hear that and so it makes me wonder, you know, maybe that was something that I could have gotten help with as a child and, and, and can still now like as an adult, find things that helped me. I'm sure that you've heard a lot of people come into your practice and say something similar. Jan Willer, PhD 24:12Absolutely.Hannah Choi 24:17Okay, so in the interest of time, and potentially embarrassing myself more than I'm comfortable with. I'm going to stop the recording of a conversation here. Right after this. I asked Jan, if she'd be open to talking with me about my own challenges. We talked for a while about my life and what I struggle with and why I think I might have ADHD. It was pretty eye opening and extremely validating. She encouraged me to get a formal diagnosis from someone in my state. After chatting with Jan, I set up an appointment with my primary care physician who is an internal medicine doctor. I was really optimistic on the appointment day but things didn't go as planned. I was reminded of something that Dr. Theresa Cerulli said about how internists will not usually entertain a conversation about ADHD, and will generally refer you to a psychiatrist, which is exactly what mine did. Feeling deflated because I knew a psychiatrists fee would be greater than what I could afford. I remembered my own advice to clients. What would this look like if it were easy? So I reached out to Jan again, for more guidance. Do I need to see a psychiatrist is a full neuro Psych Exam necessary? And who else can I consult besides my doctor? Jan assured me that a full neuropsych exam wasn't required. She explained that due to the shortage of psychiatrists available for ADHD support, other providers can diagnose it without a formal neuropsych exam. And this boosted my confidence to search further. And then I found a local psychiatric nurse practitioner online through psychologytoday.com, which is a great resource for that kind of stuff. We met for over an hour, she asked me all about my health history and my childhood, my college years and my coloring challenges. And we went through the adult ADHD Self-Report scale together, which was hilarious. I kept bursting out laughing at many of the questions because it was me but on paper, and I kept wondering "Was the person who created the scale living in my brain?" Initially, I wasn't sure I wanted to use medication. But after learning about the ADHD brain and how it works, I was more open to it. I remembered something else that Dr. Cerulli said, at least have the conversation about medication options. Whether you use them or not, is up to you but have that conversation. I also felt confident trying medication because I already did all the things you're supposed to do, right? I eat well, I get a lot of exercise, my sleep habits are good. I had created systems that work really well to support myself in EF areas that I struggle with. But honestly, I was exhausted, forcing myself to use them all the time and not being as successful as I probably should have. And honestly, I was being pretty mean to myself inside when I struggled. So something had to change. So I decided to try using ADHD medication. I knew I wasn't interested in stimulants because I wasn't sure how they'd work with the anxiety that I already dealt with. And considering my history, Sophia prescribed the non stimulant Wellbutrin initially, it actually worked really well. But unfortunately, it increased the number of migraines I was having. And interestingly, there is a connection between migraines and people with ADHD. And I'm actually having an appointment with a with a neurologist coming up. And I want to ask more about that and learn more about that connection. So anyway, I switched to another non stimulant called Strattera. And that's actually been working great. It's made a huge difference in reducing the constant chatter in my head until it quieted down in there, I seriously had no idea how much noise I had in my brain all the time. I've also noticed that it's so much easier for me to get started on my work and get back to it if I get interrupted. And I can also stay focused on my work for longer periods of time. And following through on stuff that I don't want to do is not so painfully difficult anymore. And I remember Bob Shae telling me that his meds make it easier to use all the tools he had already implemented. I agree, Bob, I completely agree. I have spent a lot of time reflecting you know, me, I love that self reflection and thinking back to choices that I made and things that I did that were likely because of ADHD. I've been reading and listening to podcasts and talking with people about their ADHD. And I am learning so much. I decided to reach out to Jan again to talk with her about what comes up for people once they've been diagnosed, and what supports will help. We met just recently to record and realize it had been almost nine months since we first talked. Let's check in to hear what we talked about. Hannah Choi 29:17So when we last talked, I asked you about my own experience with ADHD and I really am grateful to you for taking that time with me to walk me through that a little bit uncomfortable, and a little scary conversation and and it's just such a great example of this idea that when we step outside of our comfort zone we end up finding magic and and discovering things that we never knew or we knew about ourselves but we didn't like have words for it. And it's just been who I got chills it's really actually been life changing and I'm I am so grateful for it. So thank you.Jan Willer, PhD 30:03Oh, you're welcome. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I do find that a lot of people really appreciate knowing that they have ADHD. Because it has so much explanatory power for what people have been struggling with. And like you said, sometimes people don't even have the words, yeah, for all of their struggles. So being able to talk about it with a professional and have that person say, Oh, well, people who have ADHD often struggle with this, and this and this and kind of give, give the person the words and the ways to conceptualize it. And then they'll be like, Yes, I do that. And yes, I have that problem, too. And yes, that's so hard for me, really can kind of make a difference in terms of the person understanding themselves, and being able to communicate with their loved ones. And people they work with even the whether they come out about having ADHD or not, they can still say things like, it really doesn't work very well, for me to have a lot of interruptions when I'm trying to work on a project.Hannah Choi 31:13Yes, yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a great point that you brought up. And something I wanted to talk about is that whole, you know, disclosing at work type of thing, because so I, you know, I'm very lucky, I work in a job where, you know, I wasn't even an issue for me to disclose, they were just like, okay, yeah, that's great. What's next, you know, and then, and, in fact, it, it probably really helps me as a coach to know and to relate with my clients even more. And, and so I'm very lucky that I work in an environment that is not only extremely accepting of neurodivergence, but also we are in like, the literal business of supporting people who are neurodivergent. And then you know, there's there's other people who may or may not feel safe disclosing that at work. And so I really love that, that that suggestion that you gave just then of how you can disclose your needs without necessarily disclosing your diagnosis. How do you support client, your clients who come to with that struggle?Jan Willer, PhD 32:26Yeah, well, you know, everybody who has ADHD is a little bit different. And so you know, depends on some people work better at home, some people work better in the office, it kind of each person has different situations where they concentrate better. Sometimes that people do better in the office that also certain areas of office are too noisy or distracting. And so they need some help with that. On occasion, I have written accommodation letters for people. And it doesn't always work 100%. But usually, they are able to do something that's helpful to the person. Like I had someone I was talking to once whose cube was right by the coffee machine. And you can imagine how distracting that would be for anybody, much less a person who has ADHD, and they were able to get moved to an area that was a lot quieter. And that made all the difference in terms of being able to be efficient at work. Hannah Choi 33:29Yeah, and I imagine a big part of it is self efficacy and being brave enough to speak up about it. So having someone like you to maybe work through a script, or just kind of talk out what an accommodation might be helpful. I'm, I'm sure that is a big, a big part of people's experience.Jan Willer, PhD 33:50Right. And, you know, people can kind of take two different approaches to that. I mean, one is kind of the official HR approach, you know, going in, I want reasonable accommodations for my ADHD, which legally is considered a disability even though you know, people can discuss whether they could consider it that way or not. And so that's one approach. And the other approach is to say, okay, to think about, well, how is my ADHD interacting negatively with the work environment? And how can I verbalize what my needs are? If I don't feel comfortable or the HR situation isn't optimal in a way that people can hear it and might be willing to work with me on it? Tomorrow, kind of informal approach.Hannah Choi 34:42And I bet when you have an like, I imagined maybe like before someone gets a diagnosis, they still are aware of what their challenges are. Maybe after they get the formal diagnosis. They're like, okay, that might give them some confidence to to ask for what they need there. There's an actual reason why they need that. It's not just that they're bad. They're, you know, there's a real reason. Jan Willer, PhD 35:08Right, and I think you're bringing up a really important point is that a lot of people, you know, like yourself managed to kind of fly under the radar their whole life. And they knew something was going on, they knew they were somewhat different from everybody else. But it often tends to be very internalized. And the person tends to feel like, well, I'm struggling, and all these other people aren't struggling, therefore, there's something wrong with me. And so that, you know, that, then they just kind of end up what caught doing what many people call masking, which is trying to pretend that there isn't an issue, even if they are struggling, and a lot of people can be very successful at pretending. But even though even though inside they're really feeling kind of miserable about Hannah Choi 35:59Yeah, there's a there's a, an internal cost. That is it's maybe not visible, but they are feeling it. Exactly, yeah. Yeah. That That reminds me of, we recently did a webinar about ADHD, and about for people who were newly diagnosed and are curious. And a parent asked about their child who was, I can't remember, I think he was like, older teen young adult kind of college age. So the parents said, he had just been diagnosed, and was feeling like it was a negative thing. And, and, and she was wondering how we could or how she could support him to learn about about it, and maybe see it in a more positive light. And it just made me think like, he's probably spent a lot of his life internalizing all of those things, then you find out, Oh, there's a reason for it. Oh, then this must be a bad thing. So how do you support people who are how can we even our listeners, if we have people, you know, loved ones in our lives? who have been diagnosed? How can we support them? In seeing that it's not all bad?Jan Willer, PhD 37:21Yeah, I think there's a couple of ways to look at this. I mean, one way to look at it is to say, well, you know, if you if you think about it from a disability perspective, which is, you know, one angle to look at things is to say, Okay, well, it's a disability that makes it difficult for this person to learn, in certain situations difficult for the person to work in certain situations take information in and at times, you know, all kinds of other challenges that can come up with that. But does that, does that have to be viewed in a negative and judgmental way? Right, you know, the brain is an organ to the brain, you know, can have issues just like any other organ can have issues. And so, in a way, that's one way of conceptualizing ADHD and thinking about it in terms of not having stigma towards a person who has an illness or a disability or something like that, because nobody deserves that, that's, you know, that's ableism. And that's wrong. So, another way of thinking about it, which I think is is equally valid, is thinking about it in terms of being neurotypical versus neurodivergent. And so, you know, when we think of people who are neurotypical, we're typically talking about a person who doesn't have ADHD, and a person who doesn't have autism. And so, those folks at you know, the world is built around people who are neurotypical is not built to accommodate people who are neurodivergent. And so that's part of the difficulty that people who are neurodivergent have is that it's just not, it's not built for how their brain operates, nothing is built for how their brain offers and the things that are valued, don't tend to be the things that the people who are neurodivergent have to offer. So for example, some of the things that a person who's neurodivergent have to offer our, the, their incredible ability to be really interested and passionate about things and just really dig in and get into something and understand all the incredible connections between they're taught that topic that they're into and everything around it, they're great at understanding things in a network kind of interconnected way. Whereas kind of in this is obviously a little over-simplified, but a person who's neurotypical tends to be more of a linear thinker, whereas a person who has ADHD tends to be more of a, you know, kind of a divergent, tangential type thinker. And also people who have ADHD are often very creative in some way or another, you know, they can be creative in terms of problem solving, coming up with ideas, brainstorming, they also can be very creative in terms of the arts. So, and they're just great at coming up with ideas that no one else ever thought of, you know, and those are not things that the school system was really searching for. Hannah Choi 40:45So help, helping somebody with ADHD who maybe has recently been diagnosed recognize that ability that they have, and recognize how they can use that in a work situation or school situation. Yeah, while simultaneously advocating for themselves to somehow fit successfully into that neurotypical system.Jan Willer, PhD 41:11Right, the neurotypical world. Yeah,Hannah Choi 41:14Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that broke my heart that he that that boy felt that way. Because, and maybe it's just age, right. So I, I found out that I was, you know, I got the answer to all of my questions when I was 46. And so I, I might, you know, I'm just like, just have more life experience, and I'm more mature, I guess. Right. So I was able to, like, kind of go back and, and hug the 20 year old version of me that, you know, didn't understand. And he is that 20 year old version of himself. And so he doesn't, he just has what other people are telling him. So I guess that's not really sure where I'm going with this, but I like, but it just makes me think of when you've been diagnosed, finding people who really support you recognizing your strengths. And, you know, and following your strengths, following your talents, finding a work environment, or a school environment that is willing and open to supporting you as an neurodivergent thinker. With an ADHD brain or an ASD brain, then, you know, that that would I imagine just lead to a better experience, like I'm having, you know, the fact that the work that I do is very well suited for me.Jan Willer, PhD 42:37Yeah, and I think people who have ADHD are especially well suited to professions where there's always something new to learn, there's always a problem to solve. There's always a new person to talk to, you know, and that, and they're really great at engaging in all of those new things that are coming at them and love, usually love learning new things. Yeah. Which I think is really cool.Hannah Choi 43:05It is. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And so I was just listening to Ned Hallowell he was on, on a podcast that I really enjoyed listening to with a woman called Kate, I can't remember her last name, but she's a British woman who has a podcast called the ADHD, women's well being podcast, and she interviewed him on there, and he was talking about, and I'm sure he's talked about this and other things, I just happen to hear it on there. But he was talking about how important it is for people with ADHD to, to, to do things that, that they're really interested in and find a job that they are good at, because it's something that they're good at, or because it's something that they're interested in. And to break free from these, like, preconceived notions that society has, like, oh, you need to become this or that or maybe your parents expectation or, or your social circle or whatever. And, and this just another chance, another op op, another situation where a person has to say like, Hey, I might not do things the same as everybody else. Jan Willer, PhD 44:12Absolutely. Right. And doing things different in a different way. Doesn't mean you're doing things in a worse way. Hmm, I like that. Right? Different isn't?Hannah Choi 44:21It's just yeah, it's just different. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Jan Willer, PhD 44:27And, you know, often I'll tell my clients who have ADHD that it's important to work with it rather than against. Yeah, don't fight it and feel like I have to do everything the way exactly the way that a neurotypical person does it or I'm not successful. Yeah, do it in a way that works for you and your own particular brain. And that's great.Hannah Choi 44:52Yeah, just I have a friend who has ADHD and so we've just been talking a lot lately and, and we were talking about how Oh, how it's so fun talking with another person who has ADHD because you can get really tangental and tangential and come right back and other person just follow right along. I had a client this morning, she's like, sorry, I'm all over the place. I'm like, Don't worry, I, I gotcha. Gotta take a lot of notes as you're going, because otherwise I'll forget what you say. But, uh, mowing you? Yeah. And I guess that deer? Do do you see in your clients desire to connect with other people who have ADHD or to find a social support that way?Jan Willer, PhD 45:39You know, I think it's interesting that you're bringing that up, because I have certainly have noticed that a lot of my clients who have ADHD do tend to have friends who have ADHD, and sometimes even spouses, but the spouses can go either way, sometimes they have ADHD, and sometimes they want to be with somebody who's very organized. Like, they want to be with a really neurotypical person, balance them out. Yeah, exactly. But they do tend to really, you know, kind of enjoy that bouncing around. Yeah, seasonally, that happens when two people have ADHD. It's an interesting phenomena. Hannah Choi 46:18It's fun! We're fun people. Jan Willer, PhD 46:20Yeah, I mean, people who have ADHD tend to be full of life. And, you know, it's really and spontaneous and have lots of interesting things to say. And you know, that's cool. That's a good friend.Hannah Choi 46:35Something that, that I've been thinking about lately is the anxiety that comes along with ADHD and how, for me, realizing how connected they were was so freeing, and it's truly incredible how much less anxiety I am experiencing now. And I remember you said that you said to, you often encourage people to explore the ADHD diagnosis when they have it, where they have anxiety. And at night, I really can speak to that it made a really big difference for me. And then I think back to my childhood. And I remember I went to the summer camp, and they gave away awards at the end of the summer. And the award that I got, which I was 12. And now looking back on it, oh god that my poor 12 year old self, the worst they gave me was the "What If Award". And because I always used to say, well, what if what if this happens? What if that happens? I was really anxious. And it nobody said like, "Wait a second? Why is she wondering all the time What if?" And now I realize it's because my brain was thinking of all the things, all the things. And I just so when I realized that I was in the car today while I was driving. Oh, so I went back to my 12 year old self. It's okay. We get it now. Yeah, so that's been that's been like a really nice experience that I've had is being able to go back and just kind of forgive myself a little bit.Jan Willer, PhD 48:09Yeah, yeah, it really it does take a while to kind of turn over all the things that happened that were related to the ADHD, and put it all in context, isn't it?Hannah Choi 48:20Yeah. And it's, yeah, it's and you know, so it's been, like, nine months since we talked, so nine months of me, like really exploring that. And, and it's, I think, out of the whole experience, I think that is probably the most impactful is being able to explain a lot of things and, and really forgive myself, because I held on for so long, that, that I was just bad at all those things, and, and internalized so much of it, and I and I, but I was really good at masking it even to myself. And so it's just been, like incredible, but for sure need a therapist. Like, I don't think I would have been able to do that all on my own. I wouldn't, I would have been more afraid to go there without the support of a therapist, you know, like, walking me through it is it's been. It's been hard. And it's been amazing. Yeah.Jan Willer, PhD 49:27Yeah. So there's there's a lot of advantages that can come to having a therapist who is knowledgeable about ADHD, right? Yeah. Because they can help you sort through those issues from the past and get their perspective on it. Right. And they can provide you with a lot of information about ADHD and you know how the brain works when a person has ADHD. Yeah, what their common struggles are or what their differences are. So, so that's, that's really useful too, and it can help you work on and coping skills if there's things that you're struggling with. Hannah Choi 50:03Yeah. So you know what, before we go, what kind of it? Like, what's your top advice that you give to people? Right? You know, when they, when they come to this realization like, oh, okay, this is why?Jan Willer, PhD 50:19Well, I think it's the case with any, you know, cognitive or emotional difference that a person may have in that get, you know, knowledge is power, right? Yeah. And so the more a person understands themselves, the more they understand how their brain is working, the more they've understand how ADHD has affected their life, and affected how they feel about themselves and their emotions, you know, then that really helps them figure out how to move forward. Yeah,Hannah Choi 50:53Yeah. And that might take a while and might take a lot of hard work. Probably some tears. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks again, Jan. I will be forever, eternally grateful to you for taking the time and for being so supportive. And I really hope that anyone listening can can find a Jan Willer in their lives, to you know, to kind of walk them through this whole, like, exploration of possible ADHD diagnosis. Hannah Choi 51:33I just like I like you heard me just say, I am just so grateful for this diagnosis now at age 46. And I'm sad that there was not as much education and understanding about ADHD back when I was a kid so that me and other people like me, could have gotten help earlier. And mom, I know you're listening, I just want you to know that I placed absolutely no blame at all on you, or dad, or on my teachers or the other adults in my childhood, there just wasn't the knowledge, the awareness and understanding that we have today. And I know there are people out there many of them women like me, who were masking their symptoms with coping skills, they were not so that were not so outwardly noticeable to others and didn't have any catastrophic consequences. But they were slowly turning them us inside into people who struggle to find confidence, and believe in themselves. So I am really hopeful for myself and everyone else out there who can relate to any of what I've shared today. If you can relate, please reach out, ask for help ask the questions. It's scary, but you got to do it. I made an appointment, like I said before with a neurologist to learn about my migraines and the connection with ADHD. And I also made an appointment with a more affordable psychiatrist who does full neuro psych reports for less than the typical cost. I'm very excited about that. And you know, as Jan said, knowledge is power. So I'm taking my brain health into my own hands and learning as much as I can. And I really hope that you're able to do that for yourself as well. Hannah Choi 53:11If you've been listening for a while, you'll know that one of our main goals is to hopefully help someone somewhere who is struggling with an aspect or maybe many aspects of their executive function skills. Well, this episode is here to maybe help that person find freedom from their frustrating past. By finding the courage to get tested, ask questions, learn about medication and strategies that truly can make a huge difference. It was hard and kind of weird to put myself out there for this episode. My colleagues and Jan both asked me if I was okay with being in that vulnerable position. But I thought about all the people who might be able to relate who might not know where to start and who might find some inspiration and maybe some bravery in my story. I also figured if Katie Couric, Jimmy Kimmel, and Ryan Reynolds can all share their colonoscopy experiences on TV, I can share my ADHD story with you on Focus Forward. Hannah Choi 54:10And that is our show for today. If you know anyone who might want to hear all this or maybe needs to hear all this, please share this episode with them. You can reach out to me at podcast at beyond booksmart.com I would love love, love to hear from you. Please subscribe to focus forward on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts and if you listen on Apple podcasts or on Spotify, please give us a boost by giving us a five star rating will love you for it. Sign up for our newsletter at beyond booksmart.com/podcast. We'll let you know when new episodes drop, and we'll share information related to the topic. Thanks for listening everyone.

Wow, I can't believe it. This is the last episode of our second season of Focus Forward. We started the season off with Rachel Hulstein-Lowe who joined me to talk about transitions and how to make them a little easier. We explored memory, college students, grief, cognitive flexibility, and much, much more. You supported us by downloading our new episodes, reviewing us on apple podcasts and Spotify, sending me emails of support, and subscribing to our podcast newsletter. My heart is truly full from it all. Thank you! We'll be back with more episodes for you early this fall

Last week, I had a blast hosting another free webinar for Beyond BookSmart that was all about ADHD. Amy McDuffie, an Executive Function coach and ADHD expert, joined me to explore how the ADHD brain works and what the roles of medication, therapy and executive function coaching are within the larger umbrella of ADHD treatment. We also took some time to cover some of our coaches' favorite tools and strategies that can support the areas of executive functioning that people with ADHD often struggle with, and featured psychiatrist, Dr. Theresa, to fill in some of our expertise gaps around ADHD medication. So, today, I'm bringing you the audio from the webinar AND a bonus Q&A section that Amy & I did after the webinar (there were just too many great questions we didn't get to!) If you joined us live and just want to hear the bonus content, you can skip ahead to around 47 minutes to listen to just that. And if you didn't get a chance to watch the webinar at all, be sure to look for the link in the show notes below!For those who have been blessed with careful ears, you'll hear me share in this episode that I was recently diagnosed with ADHD myself. Because of my recent diagnosis, this episode is particularly close to my heart. I hope you enjoy listening half as much as I enjoyed being a part of these important conversations and if you do, be sure to give us a 5-star review on the platform you're listening on! And last but certainly not least, thank you for being a part of the Focus Forward community. Here are the show notes for this week: Watch our webinar, How to Thrive with ADHD After a Diagnosishttps://thinkingoutsidetheclassroom.wistia.com/medias/u3pueh40rsSlides from our webinar, How to Thrive with ADHD After a Diagnosishttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/hubfs/How%20to%20Thrive%20with%20ADHD%20After%20a%20Diagnosis%202023.pdfWatch our webinar about Motivation:https://thinkingoutsidetheclassroom.wistia.com/medias/o3it96iuotBeyond BookSmart ADHD Success Kithttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/adhd-success-kit-2022Focus Forward Ep 13: How to Unlock the Superpowers of ADHDhttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=by637tasziFocus Forward Ep 18: Flipping the ADHD Narrative: How "The Disruptors" is Changing the Way We Talk About ADHD (ft. Nancy Armstrong)https://www.beyondbooksmart.com/podcast?wchannelid=y1lzulxlcs&wmediaid=wwh3rsdpbw2-Minute Neuroscience: ADHDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8JnDhp83gATranscriptHannah Choi 00:04Hi everyone, and welcome to Focus Forward, an executive function podcast where we explore the challenges and celebrate the wins, you'll experience as you change your life by working on improving your executive function skills. I'm your host, Hannah Choi. Hannah Choi 00:18Oh, you guys, thank you so much for taking the time to go to Apple podcasts and rate Focus Forward. For me, it really means a lot to see that little number next, all those stars go up. I really appreciate it. If you want to help us out, and you haven't already rated it, you can scroll to the bottom of the Focus Forward section of your Apple podcasts app and give us a rating and hopefully it's five stars. If it's not, email me, tell me why. Thanks, guys. I really appreciate you all so much.Hannah Choi 00:47 I had a blast hosting another beyond booksmart free webinar last week, this time, all about ADHD. Amy McDuffie joined me again as one of our ADHD experts. And we covered what ADHD is and what it is not how the ADHD brain and medication work, the roles therapy and executive function coaching play for people with ADHD, and the benefits of pairing those interventions for maximum success. We also took some time to cover some of our coaches favorite tools and strategies that can support the areas of executive functioning that people with ADHD often struggle with. And this webinar was an updated version of the ADHD fundamentals webinar that we held in June of 2022. So today, I'm bringing you the audio from this year's ADHD webinar. If you listen to Focus Forward regularly, you may notice that much of the content is similar to the ADHD focused episode we did in October of 2022. In fact, I even used some of the audio from last year's webinar in that episode, I really hope you listen anyway. And don't report me for plagiarizing myself, although you'd have to report me to me, and I'm cool with it. So it's all just such good stuff. And I want to share it with as many people as possible in as many formats as we can. So some people like to watch video to learn, and others like to listen and still others prefer to read. And as a coach, I really recognize the value of honoring these differences in people. And so this is me making that happen. If you'd like some visuals while you listen, the slides from the webinar are linked in the show notes. Also, today, you'll hear me share that I was recently diagnosed with ADHD myself. And so this webinar and that ADHD episode are particularly close to my heart. In fact, doing all the research for the ADHD episode last year confirmed what I had been wondering for quite a while. Hannah Choi 03:02At the end of our webinar presentation last week, Amy and I answered some of the Q&A topics that our attendees asked both with their registrations and during the live webinar. And people asked such good questions. So good. And if you listened to the Focus Forward episode of the audio from our Laziness vs. Executive Dysfunction webinar, all about unlocking motivation, you may remember that Amy, Vin and I sat down the next day to answer more Q&A topics. Because there were some great questions we couldn't get to before this latest webinar ended, Amy and I decided to meet up again, just like last time, so stay tuned at the end of the webinar audio for the bonus content. If you joined us live and you just want to hear the bonus content, you can skip ahead to about 46 minutes to listen to just that. And if you missed the webinar, and you want to watch it, the link to it and our other webinar presentations is in the show notes. Okay, now on to the show. Hannah Choi 04:07All right. So hello, and welcome to our webinar "How to Thrive with ADHD After Diagnosis". We are so thrilled to welcome people joining us from across the US and around the world as we saw, and we have closed captions available. So if you'd like to use those, be sure to turn them on. My name is Hannah Choi, and I'll be your moderator for tonight's event. I use she her pronouns and I'm the host of our podcast, all about executive functioning called Focus Forward. So if you listen there, you might know you get to see a face to the name or Yeah, face to my voice. I have been an executive function coach at beyond booksmart since 2017, and I have coached dozens of students from elementary age all the way up to college and I also work with adults and I'm a mom of two kids who are 11 and 14 and I live in Connecticut. I am also joined by Amy McDuffie who you may recognize from our laziness versus executive dysfunction webinar around motivation. Amy, would you please introduce yourself and share your background and your roles with Beyond BookSmart?Amy McDuffie 05:14Yes, thank you, Hannah. Hi, everyone, I have been a coach and executive function consultant with beyond booksmart. For over two years. I use she her pronouns, and my background is in special education, specifically in behavior and learning disabilities, with students from elementary through high school. And I'm also a former behavior specialist. These opportunities allowed me to really experience both the gifts and challenges of students diagnosed with ADHD. Much of my work in the school setting focused on providing interventions for students, and coaching teachers on how to best provide support. I'm also the parent of two pretty awesome teens, ages 14 and 17. And I'm so glad you all are here. And I'm really excited to be with you.Hannah Choi 05:59Thank you, Amy. And for those of you who are joining us who may not be familiar with Beyond BookSmart, we have been providing one on one executive function coaching with students and adults since 2006. Even before that term executive function became widely known. And you may already know this term since ADHD and executive function skill challenges are so closely bound. But if it's new to you, you're not alone, I promise. Executive function skills are mental skills that we use to navigate our lives and get through our days. They include attention, memory, time management, planning, prioritizing, and emotional regulation. And many of our clients have an ADHD diagnosis, which gives us extensive experience in supporting individuals with ADHD or similar challenges. And today's webinar is an updated version of the ADHD fundamentals webinar that we ran last summer, which was hosted by Jackie Hebert. And that webinar was one of our highest attended webinars. So we know that this topic is really important to people. And I am personally thrilled to be hosting this time, because the topic is really close to my heart, I was recently diagnosed with ADHD. And I've been doing a lot of the same navigation of new waters that many of you likely are. And so I'm really happy to be here with you today. So you may be joining us today because you or your child was recently diagnosed with ADHD, but maybe you just suspect a diagnosis. And if this is the case, we really encourage you to listen to the webinar, and then reach out to your pediatrician or your primary care provider for guidance on what to do next.Amy McDuffie 07:37Thanks, Hannah. It can be really overwhelming when you learn or suspect that you or a loved one has ADHD. There's just so much information out there. And it can be hard to sort through it all. But we find it can also be a huge relief to get a diagnosis because it gives you context for your or your child's struggles, and also a defined place to look for help and support, which you are doing right now. We're here tonight to provide that for you. So here's what's here's what to expect in our webinar. First, we'll briefly define ADHD and explore some common assumptions about it. Then we'll move to learning about medication options. Then we'll touch upon behavioral approaches to treating ADHD, and share some of our coaches favorite tools and strategies that can make life a little easier. We'll share some resources and answer some of your questions before we finish up. So please use the Q&A function at the bottom of your screen throughout the webinar.Hannah Choi 08:38Yes, thanks. And because we're not medical doctors - Sorry mom and dad! We will be sharing a recording of some of the webinar from last summer. We had Dr. Theresa Cerulli join us to discuss the option of medication to treat ADHD. Dr. Cerulli is a graduate of Tufts University, University of Massachusetts Medical School, Harvard Longwood residency program in adult psychiatry, and Harvard fellowships in Medical Psychiatry and neuro psychiatry, and she is a board certified physician in psychiatry and is on the faculty at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, and for the neuroscience Education Institute, so we'll hear from her later.Amy McDuffie 09:21All right, so you might be wondering just how common is ADHD? You're in very good company. Research from the National Institute of Mental Health, the NIMH reveals 11% of children and 4.4% of adults meet the criteria for ADHD, with males diagnosed at a higher rate than females. Now those statistics are from 2011. So we hope that NIMH updates their data soon. But with that degree of prevalence, you can see why it's essential to educate caregivers, children and adults with ADHD and help them identify supports to manage their symptoms.Hannah Choi 09:59Yes, and thanks to the efforts of high profile and successful people with ADHD, there's less stigma associated with a diagnosis. In fact, you'll meet many people who consider their ADHD a superpower of sorts. And it provides great energy and creativity when channeled effectively. There are so many great examples of people with this superpower from Simone Biles that you can see on the screen now, and astronaut Scott Kelly and so many others, and ADHD does not have to be a hindrance to success. All right, but all of that inspirational wisdom still leaves us with an important question. Hannah Choi 10:35What is ADHD? And what is it not? All right, so ADHD is a brain based condition that impacts daily life. And it often can affect motivation. And it often runs in families. And it has three subtypes, there's hyperactive impulsive, and then there's inattentive, which you may know as add the ADD is what it was formerly called. And now it is called ADHD inattentive type. And then there is the third type, which is the combined type that has characteristics from both. And ADHD directly impacts executive functioning. And ADHD is not a result of poor parenting. It is not a choice. And it is not something that children typically outgrow. And it is not a learning disability. And it's also doesn't have to be an immovable barrier to success and happiness. And I want to touch upon just a few of these points. Not everyone outgrows it. But with intervention, you can manage symptoms, and sometimes the symptoms just change over your life, because the demands on us change. So the symptoms can look different as we age. And ADHD is not considered a learning disability because it's a medical condition that, as we learned, impacts your it will what you'll learn as we will learn it impacts neurotransmitters in the brain. And research indicates that 30 to 50% of children with ADHD also have a specific learning disability, and that the two conditions can interact, which can make learning extremely challenging.12:10Yes, let's talk more about that for a minute. It's not a learning disability, but a medical condition. And understanding these dynamics can really help us empathize with individuals with ADHD. So if you attended our Laziness vs. Executive Dysfunction webinar, this may sound familiar. So ADHD is characterized by lower levels of the neurotransmitters dopamine and norepinephrine, affecting how the ADHD brain perceives both reward and pleasure. And this leads to a lack of enthusiasm per task, and a tendency to prioritize short term rewards over long term rewards. Another significant difference in the ADHD brain involves the default mode network, which activates during daydreaming or when we're not focused on a task. In ADHD, this network is more often activated constantly diverting attention toward unrelated thoughts. So that explains why staying focused on tedious or repetitive tasks can be such a chore with ADHD. It really isn't a matter of well, it's a matter of neurology. And that's why brain based interventions can be really effective for individuals with ADHD.Hannah Choi 13:26Yes, so true. Thank you, Amy. Alright, so now that we know what happens inside the ADHD brain, let's take a look at how ADHD can show up in behavior. Okay, so here is the top of an iceberg. And this is the part that everyone sees when a person has executive function challenges due to ADHD. The people around them see the top they see the behaviors that are problematic. They're forgetful, they seem lazy and scattered. They're sloppy or moody, they behave impulsively, and sometimes can even be rude to others. Does this sound familiar to anyone? Now remember that icebergs are actually mostly hidden under the water. And it's the same with executive function challenges. When we look deeper, we can see the specific skill deficits that people with ADHD can often have and that are causing the challenging behaviors that impact those around us. And so a person may have a poor sense of time or difficulty planning ahead, when that can make them seem scattered, and they may have trouble regulating emotion and seem irritable or moody. When they have no strategies to self monitor, a person can look impulsive, and students or adults who are too overwhelmed to get started can look lazy. And when they have no systems to track to sorry, excuse me to track their belongings or to maintain their focus, they can be forgetful. And when a person has trouble thinking flexibly, it can affect their problem solving and perspective taking and that can often come off as rude or demanding behavior. Beer. And as I mentioned in the beginning, ADHD can impact one or more of these skill areas. So you can see how it can directly impact our ability to manage everyday demands.Amy McDuffie 15:13Thank you, Hannah. So we'll shift now to the role of medication for ADHD. Many of you wrote in with questions about that, and we recognize that medication is a personal choice. And for those who are considering it, we wanted to provide some support there. So let's hear from Dr. Cerulli to learn how that works.Theresa Cerulli, MD 15:33So medications, I will say, it should be something to at least discuss with your providers medication isn't for everyone, but should at least be considered for everyone is how I would have I would think about it. And mostly because of the data. Looking at this was these were NIMH funded studies, not pharmaceutical funded studies years ago, looking at the role of behavioral interventions versus motivate medication intervention, interventions, versus combined in treating ADHD, and the sitter. So the surprise was that medication interventions, compared with behavioral interventions alone, the medication invent interventions were more significantly impactful. And then we all made the assumption that the combined medication and behavioral treatment would be even more impactful and which was true, but not to the extent that they had anticipated. So it does look like a main a main part of the treatment intervention should be medication should at least be considered this is neural neuro biologically based. And the sometimes it's hard to make headway in your behavioral strategies, meaning I call that "from the outside in" using strategies you learn in your environment, with some coaching, hopefully, and therapy, from the outside in, those strategies become hard to learn, and or utilize if you're also not not working from the inside out and helping with the neurobiological aspects in terms of what's happening in the brain. So initially, at least considering the combination of therapies, internal and external, so to speak, are, are considered them should should at least be considered. That's how we think about it. And here's our ADHD brain here on on the slide with the power switch in the frontal lobe. Think of the brain as a large electrical circuit, it really is that we're sending electrical signals when one part of the brain is talking to another part of the brain. So in the ADHD brain, all the circuitry is there, there's nothing that's we're not missing something. There's not, you know, holes in the section of the brain that's involved in attention concentration. But it just, it turns out that there's a higher level of stimulation is needed to literally turn the circuit on. And the reason that this switch here is in the frontal lobe this on switch is because that's the area that's mostly involved in ADHD, from what we can tell that area is under active or hypo active. If you look at functional scans, have somebody do a concentration task that has ADHD, and you scan them in a functional scanner, looking at what happens. And it turns out that that area of the brain that's used with concentration and attention is under active, it's too quiet. It takes something stimulating to flip the switch, which is where the medications come in. I get this question all the time. Why in the world would you talk about stimulant medications? For somebody who's already hyperactive and impulsive? It's kind of counterintuitive. And the reason is because you're not trying to stimulate the whole person. You want to stimulate that frontal part of the brain that Its job is to help us focus, concentrate, built around, filter out background noises, organize and plan. You're trying to turn it on to do its job most efficiently and effectively. So choosing the right medication is the question we get all the time. It should be in partnership certainly with somebody who really knows ADHD well, and the primary care physicians are especially if you're working with kids, the pediatricians are quite familiar but all with adults with ADHD your internist may or may not be they because the stimulant medications, which are many of the options we have available, are controlled substances. A lot of the internists and general practitioners for adults are their little hesitant to be involved in in prescribing so we usually refer you to a psychiatrist and neurologist, somebody who does this on a more routine basis. For ADHD, there are stimulants. There are also non stimulants. The non stimulants have some similar effects in the brain. Not quite as strong, I would say Say is the stimulants and we'll go through them quickly through the pros and cons. Stimulants have been around for years and years the gosh, Ritalin 1950s There was some amphetamines available even before that in the 1930s not yet used for ADHD but at least existed so stimulants have been around for more years than I have been concert they've been well studied. They're relatively affordable because there's many options and so usually there's a lot of generic brands that are available which insurance is more willing to pay for so that has that advantage. Cons is that they are controlled substances. They do have the potential for addiction. If we have clients that working with when there's any concern around that we are really careful usually move that would be someone I'd move to a non stimulant is first line. Some examples of stimulants you may have heard of certainly, Ritalin, Concerta, and meditate those fall into the methylphenidate category of stimulants. There's a second stimulant category and that's amphetamines. Some of the names you may have heard of there are Adderall, Vyvanse and dexedrine. So stimulants, if that's the umbrella term, under stimulants, you have two subcategories methylphenidate and amphetamines. And then there's about 29 or so total stimulants if I wanted to make a list and but most of those 29 fall into either methylphenidate or amphetamines in some form, some are long acting, some are short acting. An example in the methylphenidate Ritalin itself and its original form that tablet lasted only about three and a half, four hours. And that was it, which is why it was so hard to get tend to go to the nurse's office at lunchtime to take their second dose of Ritalin than they needed a third dose after school and potentially another for homework. It was really kind of rough that up down on off feeling. Concerta is a long acting rhythm and it's still Ritalin. It's just a 10 to 12 hour version that you can take once in the morning and have it last throughout the day. So there's many methylphenidates that are short acting, many that are long acting, some that are in between. Same thing with amphetamines, the non stimulants, they aren't controlled substances, there is no potential for addiction. That is one of the beauties of the non stimulants. They haven't been out as long so we don't have as many available. In fact, there are only for adults, we only have two non stimulants FDA approved for treating ADHD. In children, we had three new we now have four because Quelbree came became available last year as another non stimulant available for actually kids and adults. So we don't have the long list of that we do with stimulants where there's I said 29 I think it's actually even a little more than that now. Preparations, non stimulants we're more limited choice, but they do have their advantages that it's not that they don't have side effects, stimulants and non stimulants both can have side effects. The side effects with the non stimulants are just a bit different. I already said that not addictive, there's no withdrawal risk. They're not quite as strong. If you looked at the robustness of response, you're going to get more effect over and above not on a stimulant over and above not taking a stimulant compared with what we call the robustness of of effect of a non stimulant. But it really should be tailored to the individual and discussed with your individual provider. Hopefully someone that really is specialized in ADHD.Amy McDuffie 23:41All right, that was great information. So medication provides a place to start for many with ADHD. But as some educational professionals say, "Pills don't teach skills". I know it might sound silly, but it's worth noting for the reminder it provides medication as we just learned can set the stage to make learning and applying new skills easier by turning on the brain's ability to focus, which allows us allows us to take better advantage of other beneficial supports. Also, because some people choose not to take ADHD medication, it's important to explore these other supports. So the other half of the equation is how you go about learning new habits and behaviors. Let's find out more about two options therapy and coaching. Both of which can teach you different ways of thinking about your ADHD, and tools and strategies to support the areas that you or your child find challenging. So therapy and executive function coaching work together to address the negative behaviors and habits that have been learned over time, but in different ways. Therapists help transform negative patterns of thinking influenced by living with ADHD and constructively rebuilt the way people feel about themselves. Their therapy can be a really helpful piece of overall treatment, particularly if there's self esteem issues, or coexisting mental health conditions like depression or anxiety that are part of the big picture. The longer that ADHD is untreated, it's more likely that there are deep seated beliefs about self worth, and potential that can be holding a person back. It's significant to note that a child with ADHD could receive 20,000 corrective or negative comments by the time they are age 10. Now that's fertile ground for feelings of shame to take root. We're not therapists, so we can't elaborate on the specific benefits and approaches to therapy. But we really encourage you to find a therapist who has experience supporting people with ADHD.Hannah Choi 25:56Yes, I know that my therapist has been invaluable to me as I figured out how to manage my ADHD and all the emotions that come with that diagnosis. So managing those emotions, and those negative narratives that come along with it are just one part of the puzzle. Because ADHD impacts executive functioning so directly, working specifically on developing good habits to level the playing field is really, really helpful. And that's where executive function coaching can help. So what is executive function coaching, it supports clients to explore their strengths and their challenges, and then refine their tools to manage their daily life challenges. And all of this helps foster healthy habits. And having a coach is beneficial for everyone, actually, regardless of your ADHD diagnosis, because you don't have to have ADHD, to have stroke struggles with executive function. And life can just be tough enough for everybody. So learning some new strategies is always helpful. And as we said before, Amy and I are both coaches, and we have been for some time now. And I just love how we get to teach adults and students, all those executive function skills like organizing, planning, prioritizing, managing time, and maintaining focus, learning to assess yourself and work more efficiently. But it's really so much more than just building on those specific skills and habits. Right, Amy?Amy McDuffie 27:26Absolutely. Yes, I definitely agree with you there, Hannah. I also really just value the strong trust and rapport that I get to build with clients. And I love those moments when I get to see a shift in confidence and autonomy. You know, really our goal is our goal as coaches is for clients to develop the skills they need in order to become successful and independent.Hannah Choi 27:51Yes, there's just nothing like it when we see our clients finding that. And also, everybody comes from a different place and has different needs and different challenges. And so what what I really like about that one on one aspect of coaching is that it can really help clients focus on their specific goals and their needs. So Amy, what do you see in your clients with ADHD when they first start coaching?Amy McDuffie 28:19Yeah, that's a really, really important question, because clients often come to us when they're feeling pretty frustrated, which is completely understandable. And oftentimes, individuals with ADHD experience much more frustration and failure than they do success, which ends up having a negative impact on their self perception, and also increases stress. So this can become a real barrier leading to the self-reinforcing negative cycle, and also results in less efficient processing. Because our brains just don't function well under stress. I know I've seen clients come into coaching with the assumption that they just can't improve their grades or stay on top of their work. Because this combination of past failure and unhelpful habits have really diminished their confidence in it for taking any steps towards making a change. And that's why it's really important to help clients with ADHD recognize their strengths. And as coaches, we can build upon those strengths and draw parallels between the skills needed to generalize that success to other areas. We also initially work on finding small wins and help clients recognize the benefits from these changes, which then leads to greater self confidence. And this increase in self-confidence and feelings of success then became motivating to build upon this habits and ends up creating a positive cycle of success that can really snowball into some major changes.Hannah Choi 29:51Yes, it's so it's just so great to see that happening. So let's talk about some of the specific tools and strategies that we coaches use to teach people with have ADHD, or just executive function challenges to make the life a little easier. So a common common common executive function skill challenge area for people with ADHD. And actually, I would say for most everybody is planning, prioritizing and time management. And so let's start with that time management. One helpful strategy is using timers and then blocking out your time, we really liked the Pomodoro Technique, which you may have heard of before, and it involves setting a timer for a focused work period, then that's usually about 25 minutes, the brain doesn't really like to work longer, in general. So 25 minutes is often a good amount of time. And then after the timer goes off, you take a five minute break, make sure you set a time and mercy or five minute break doesn't turn into an hour, and then restart that cycle. And then if you're finding it difficult to get back to work, after the break, you can try stretching or getting up and walking around having a snack or a drink, or just maybe switching to a different activity temporarily. And when prioritizing what you're going to work on in those blocks of time, some people like to decide ahead of time, what they're going to work on, based on the difficulty of the task or its urgency, and then others like to start with what they're feeling most motivated to work on. And it really just depends on what works best for you. And as all tools. And what we really say to all of our clients all the time is we really, really want you to try things out, and then see what works best for you. And as a person with ADHD, the way that you do things might look different from the way everyone else does. And I'm here to tell you that that is okay. And a tool that we like to use for planning is called peak performance. And what peak performance does it helps you to learn to pay attention to when you're most productive. And so this can give you some insights on how to schedule your days. So if you tend to get tired in the afternoons, I think that's pretty standard for most people, scheduling a focus to work session in the afternoon is not maybe a realistic expectation. And if you have a hard time winding down after school, jumping right into homework when you first get home might be stressful and unproductive.Amy McDuffie 32:17Yes, thank you so much, Hannah. I totally agree it's so important to recognize those peak performance times during the day. And I think it's also really helpful to determine why the task is important to you, you know, to remind yourself of the potential benefits, which may not always seem immediate, but could have some greater benefit down the road. And this can really help boost motivation for taking the steps to get started. Some other strategies that can help with focus include things like taking notes, using checklists, asking questions, and just writing information down in your own words. It's really about creating opportunities for engagement and active participation whenever possible. And some people find it's also helpful to drink water or to gum, also to use alternate seating or even stand and to create opportunities for movement. And this is definitely something to consider in the school environment where students do a lot of sitting.Hannah Choi 33:21I also wanted to touch on some strategies that can help remember help with remembering to take your medication. And this could be ADHD medication or any other prescriptions you might have. Memory can be a big challenge area for people with ADHD. I know it is my kryptonite. We suggest setting up automatic refills for prescriptions that allow this and adding a reminder in your calendar for the following month when you receive this month supply. And you can create a recurring alarm as a reminder to take your meds or and then also like keep them in something like near something that you use daily, maybe by your planner or bedside table or the kitchen counter. And ordering a three month supply when possible. You can't do this without medications can reduce how often you need to reorder, which is really helpful. And if the current Adderall shortage affects you, being proactive is crucial. Your pharmacist may need to collaborate with other pharmacies to source refills, and finding a cooperative pharmacy will make things much easier. Let's see. All right. I'm gonna go with this one. Let's see. How do you know when a teen is being lazy versus when it's ADHD? This sounds very familiar to me. Amy. Does it sound like that to you?Amy McDuffie 34:48It's that's a that's a tough question to be honest. Yeah, I'm happy to start out on that one. Yeah. I you know, coming from you know, a behavioral behavioral person Active, excuse me, I really like to find out, you know, where the problem issue is, and also, you know, help determine why that's happening. So I feel like, that's a really important step here. Like, you know, how, how is this child being impacted? And, you know, why is that occurring? Because I do think that, you know, behavior serves a function. And I think we need to determine that before we can identify, you know, if it's ADHD related, which it very well could be, or if it's more of a behavioral issue. So, I don't know, Hannah, what are your thoughts on that?Hannah Choi 35:39Yeah, well, it reminds me of the last webinar that we, that we both hosted back in May, where it was actually the topic of the webinar. And, and, and we, we do like what like you just said, it's, it's, I mean, I would say it's not laziness. It can feel that way. As the parent, I can very much feel that way. It can also feel that way, as a person with ADHD, sometimes I find myself, I like catch myself thinking, I'm being really lazy. And then I realized, like, wait a second, I'm just not, I'm not figuring out why. And I'm not figuring out a tool to help me get past that what feels like a laziness barrier. I do know that a lot of screen time can deplete what little dopamine people with ADHD already have. So extended amounts of screen time can can make it feel like everything else is really boring, which can impact your motivation. So you know, if there's, you might want to have a discussion with yourself, if you're the person who's experiencing that, or with your partner or with your child, if, if there might be some dopamine depletion going on from a lot of screentime, which is totally normal. Everybody, does it. I'm not at all saying is there's anything wrong with it, but it can be, there can be a connection of it there. So yeah, all right. Um, let's see. Oh, here we go. Can you give an example of how ADHD can be a superpower? I would like to take that one.Amy McDuffie 37:20Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.Hannah Choi 37:24So that Default Mode Network section that you were talking you and Dr. Cerulli were talking about earlier is, is it's both a challenge and also a superpower. So even while I'm talking right now, I have like a lot of ideas going on in my head. And what I'm doing is like making all these connections between topics. And I feel like I'm really good at synthesizing information. Because I have this deep, I even I'm focusing on talking right now to all of you, I have this default mode network that is like susceptible, making all these connections out here. And I feel like it gives me some really creative ideas. And I also feel like it really helps me as a podcast host. Because I feel like it helps me come up with some really cool questions and make connections that a more linear thinker might not make. It does require extra effort to stay focused and to kind of ignore that default mode network when I when I really need to focus. So it's a it's a challenge, and it's also a superpower. And also, there's just a lot of energy behind the things that people with ADHD are really interested in. So I think that that is, you know, some of the most successful CEOs in the world have ADHD. What about you, Amy, what do you see in your clients are the students that you used to work with?Amy McDuffie 38:46I really, I really value the creativity that I feel like many individuals with ADHD have. And you mentioned, Hannah, you know, the energy and I think that's, that's such an important part that to frame it as a positive. And, you know, that kind of goes, you know, really into, like, the dialogue about ADHD that we really should reframe it as, you know, as a positive and look at, you know, you know, the gifts that ADHD can bring for individuals.Hannah Choi 39:19Yep, I agree. Okay, here is a great question. I'm so glad somebody asked this. How does mood play into executive functioning with my daughter who has to attempt inattentive ADHD getting into the frame of mind to do anything is a big challenge. Yeah, so just to get a little brain nerdy. So our executive function skills reside in our frontal lobe or prefrontal cortex which is right behind our foreheads. And we can only really access them when we are at rest and digest when our body when we're not stressed out. We're not upset we're not anxious. And so if you, if you already are struggling with executive functioning, which a person with ADHD does, and also one of those really big, important executive function skills in there that do that does really challenge people with ADHD is emotional regulation. So regulating your emotions so that you can stay up in the front part of your brain, the top part of your brain where your executive function skills are is a huge part of success. Right? Like, if you already have trouble accessing them, and your emotions are not being managed, then it makes it even harder to get started even harder to get over the anxiety that you might have or the frustration you might feel or the fear you might have for what you're going to work on.Amy McDuffie 40:45Yeah, absolutely. Hannah, I mean, it really that emotional regulation or self regulation piece, it really is the starting point, you know, of things to focus on and then to work on building strategies from there.Hannah Choi 41:00Yeah, yep. Somebody asked about screen time. We could literally talk about screen time all night.Amy McDuffie 41:07Yeah, yeah. And I feel like that's, that's such an important question. Because, you know, it's one that we all we all live. Yeah. So I'm, if that's okay, Hannah, I'm happy to share. Okay. So this is something that I've, you know, that I've actually been working on with a client, and, you know, having two teenagers myself, it's something that we address in our own home as well. And I feel like, you know, for me, the approach that I like to take is to really look at, you know, how we spend our time, so, you know, how your kids are spending their time. And, you know, really what they're missing, you know, are there things that they have enjoyed doing in their lives, their hobbies, other things that might be sacrificed, if they're spending tons of time on the screen. So I like to, you know, kind of approach things from that angle in terms of, you know, what else could you be doing with your time, and then, I love the approach in my own house of, you know, taking the, the adolescent need for independence and autonomy. And, you know, really talking with my kiddos about, you know, are you in control of your phone? Or are you allowing your phone to control you and, you know, taking that approach and teaching them about, you know, the intention of all of the the apps and, you know, wanting to, you know, maintain our attention and take our time away. So, those are just some approaches that I use, you know, in my own house and with with my client as well. How about you, Hannah?Hannah Choi 42:44Yeah, I really love that last point that you made, because learning to, to reflect on our own experience, and then take what we've learned, and then apply it to our life to make positive change is is such an important skill to learn as a teen because you're soon going to be an adult and not have your parents around to help you monitor all that. So learning that self awareness, and just self control is so great. So I love that. I love that you mentioned that. Yeah, I got to interview Dr. Clifford Sussman, who is a psychiatrist who specializes in screen addiction. And he had some really, really great tips for, like you said, working with your, with your child, your teen to, to, you know, work together to come up with a potential solution for you know, setting reasonable limits, while also giving them that autonomy and independence that they do crave. And they do need because they need to develop that skill for success in life outside of, you know, our safe and cozy homes. And then he also talked a lot about See, here's where my memory is... so anyway, just listen to the episode!Amy McDuffie 44:06That is a great episode, Hannah. That's one of my favorites.Hannah Choi 44:12We are live folks, we are live. Here's one. How can you tell if it is anxiety or ADHD? Oh, whoever wrote that? I feel Yeah, I feel you. What do you see in your clients? Amy?Amy McDuffie 44:28Oh, wow. I honestly he and I often see both of those in conjunction and, you know, the symptoms of anxiety and ADHD. There's definitely some overlap there. And you know, we talked about the you know, the cycle of failure and I what I have seen is when clients expect have that experience of past failure, it causes more anxiety and that anxiety you know, leads to avoidance with Whether it's for, you know, completing assignments or the thing they have to do, and it just, it does create that ongoing cycle. So it's, it's hard for me to separate the two, honestly, when I think about the work that I do with my clients, because I do see it often together. How about you?Hannah Choi 45:18Yep. Yep, I agree. I mean, I agree personally, that is, has been my experience. And I also see it in my clients as well. I know, for me, personally, I have a lot of anxiety around forgetting things, because memory is my most challenged area. So I am, I am often anxious that I am, you know, forgetting an important appointment or forgetting to do something that I told someone I would do. And so I have to use a lot of strategies to support myself there and I don't succeed every time. I have recently double booked myself. And so you know, it happens. But I encourage you to explore both. And to, like Amy said, it's hard to separate them, I do think it's pretty common to have both. And, and also, like, maybe we even internalized this as a child, you know, you you like all those corrective messages we heard, you know, we talked about earlier, it's, you know, when you hear that over your over the years and years, it's, it's hard not to come a little anxious about that. Hannah Choi 46:20Okay, so this is where we ended our Q&A section of the webinar. Now keep listening to hear the rest of the conversation that I recorded with Amy the next morning. And in keeping with my goal of authenticity, you can hear some sounds of daily life in the background of my recording. My mother in law, who I love dearly, did not realize I was recording. Good morning, Amy.Amy McDuffie 46:46Hey, good morning.Hannah Choi 46:48Thanks for coming back. It's not too early, but it is the morning, but I appreciate the quick turnover. Amy McDuffie 46:56Yeah, absolutely.Hannah Choi 46:58That was so fun last night. I'm so glad we got to do that again.Amy McDuffie 47:01Yeah, me too. I really, I really enjoyed that I could talk about, you know, ADHD is something I could talk about all day. So.Hannah Choi 47:10Okay, well, then I'm glad we're talking about it. So I was laughing so hard internally, because as you know, every time we were practicing, I kept almost I kept saying not almost saying I kept saying laziness versus execution webinar. Not laziness versus executive dysfunction webinars. SoAmy McDuffie 47:31yeah, that would be a different webinar, for sure. It'll be different. Yes, exactly. I mean, that would that would be a different source of motivation, for sure. SoHannah Choi 47:51All right, so yeah, so I was very proud of myself control and yours as well, because I know you were wondering if I was gonna say it?Amy McDuffie 47:59Well, and I was trying not to think about it too much, because then I didn't want to internalize it and say it myself. So I feel like we did. We did well, with that. We did. We did. We said the word.Hannah Choi 48:13 All right, let's dive into some of these questions that are just so good. I love. I just love how thoughtful everyone is. And so some of these questions were submitted during our live Q&A. And some of them were submitted when people registered for the webinar. So we've just kind of mixed them together. Okay, so here's the question when searching for a therapist, what kind of therapists should I look for?Amy McDuffie 48:39Yeah, so Hannah, I'm happy to jump in on that. One. I would recommend looking for a therapist who is experienced working with individuals with ADHD. And you know, also if you you know, feel comfortable and know someone who has an ADHD diagnosis, you know, maybe getting a recommendation from them as well. Then what do you think?Hannah Choi 49:01Yeah, for sure, you can also ask your psychiatrist or your whatever the doctor is that you're working with, for medication, if you take medication. I do know on Psychology Today, the different therapists will have profiles. And then and then on their profile, it'll say whether they work with people with ADHD, although I did reach out to one and she she told me that she doesn't work with ADHD. People with ADHD but it says so on her profile. So you might, you might and then they went to check back again. I noticed it was gone. So you might you might that might happen to you, but I encourage you to persevere. Yeah, yes. But yeah, absolutely. Someone who has experience and then you meet you might also meet with the person for the first time if you've never met with a therapist before. You may not know this that it can take a couple tries to find a therapist that you really gel with. But it's worth pursuing. It is frustrating because you have to tell your story, again to a new A person. But um, hopefully, hopefully you find the right one on the first try. Yeah. All right. Next, how do you approach a college age student who has been diagnosed with ADHD but will not accept help and wants to fix himself? And how do you help with the shame that they feel I actually entire my own personal experience real quick, I ended up when I got diagnosed, I realized, oh, there's actually nothing wrong with me, this is just how my brain is wired. So I actually felt a lot of relief, getting a diagnosis, so that I can understand the opposite experience. And it does, it can really feel like there's like something wrong with you, and that needs to be fixed. But, you know, as we talked about last night, it is it is just, you know, it's a, it's the way that your brain is, you know, it's neurotransmitters, it's not character flaws. And so I don't know if you know, approaching it from a real matter of fact, sort of factual viewpoint, that this is what's going on in your brain. And it's not necessarily like you as, as your essence, your soul, your person. What do you think?Amy McDuffie 51:16Yeah, I think that, that the education piece is so crucial. Because just having that having the understanding, knowing why that's happening, I think can really help with that piece. And in terms of, you know, addressing the shame piece, and dealing with denial, I think it's really important, you know, as, as parents, as professionals to really normalize our own struggles, and normalize the fact that everyone has challenges and struggles and things that we that we fail at. And, you know, just really, you know, trying to approach it from that perspective that, you know, this is this is what I'm dealing with, and that, you know, we all have those things. And I feel like that's a really important part in conjunction with the education piece.Hannah Choi 52:11Yeah, yep. Showing that empathy. And, and, and acknowledging their, their feelings and not denying them those feelings. And, yeah, yeah, it is hard, though. Yeah. What's what what I feel like is that, that, eventually, people who are feeling that way will hopefully feel, see the superpowers see the benefits of it, and are and are able to shift their perspective from something like wrong with them something that needs to be fixed to something like, oh, how can I leverage the, you know, the, the actual, like, really great things about this? And, you know, it does take a lot of work? Not, you know, it's definitely not easy, but I think that a shift in mindset can can help as well. Absolutely. Just wanted that therapy piece and executive function coaching thing coming.Amy McDuffie 53:05Right. Right. And I think also, you know, if it's possible, you know, to connect them with someone who has ADHD and has, you know, worked on some strategies and, you know, is able to share their perspective, I think that can be really helpful as well, because so many people are diagnosed with it, and, you know, are very successful. So I think that's a helpful piece, too.Hannah Choi 53:31Yep. Absolutely. And that we are seeing much less of a stigma around it, and people are more open to talking about it. And so hopefully, they are, you know, your your kid kiddos are able to connect with other people, I think, yeah, that's a really good point that you brought up, Amy. Thank you. All right. So next one. All right. Let's switch to an adult perspective. If you work in an office job, where you stare at computers all day, how can one unplug and not lose motivation to do other stuff? I feel like I can't separate myself from my electronics and I procrastinate on other things I need to do. That's a really I think this challenge for anybody right, regardless of your diagnosis. Yes. Especially in this day and age, this is you are absolutely not the first person to ask this question. I think many of our adult clients are saying yes, yes. Amy McDuffie 54:33Yeah. I agree with you there. Yes, absolutely. Because we do spend so much time, you know, staring at our screens, whether it's work or anything else, I think it's really helpful to you know, to actually schedule time away from the computer away from the screen, and, you know, whatever that looks like, whether you're actually in an office or working from home, but you know, scheduling that time and committing to sticking to it. I also think it's really helpful to enlist support, you know, whether from a family member or a friend, you know, to help you commit to that, whether it's, you're able to go for a walk, or whatever the thing is, where you're breaking away from it, you know, having support can be really motivating.Hannah Choi 55:25I have an adult client that I work with currently, and he is dealing with this exact same challenge at work. And he is lucky that he has an office so he is able to shut his door. So what he does is he schedules work time on his calendar, so he looks busy, so that people, you know, interrupt him less, and then he also shuts his office door. If you don't have an office door to shut, you can have, you could even put up a sign like I'm busy working, putting on headphones is a nice visual cue to other people that you are busy. And then the phone, the phone is a big one, they've done studies and they have found that we are I think 30% less effective. Just having our phone on our desk, even if it's flipped over and silenced, we are less productive. So I really encourage you to put your phone, like you know, leave your phone in your I don't know, on your friend's desk or your co workers desk or in your work bag or something. So it's really, really out of the way out of you know, the temptation zone. That can you really help if you feel like you can't put it away or you can't for some reason, maybe you need to be on call for a sick child or you have some other commitment where you really need to be connected to your phone. They do have apps that can help you with focus. So there's don't My favorite one is Focus Dog, which there's like a dog that makes doughnuts while you're focusing. We talked about that one before. There's also there's also Forest and you know, all those other focusing apps - the Flora flora. Yeah, those are both really like pre pretty ones. Right? So, if you want the tasty donuts get Focus Dog, Pretty one get Flora Forest or, or Flora. Those are some tools that you can use if you if you can't physically move your phone away from your Yeah, your workspace.Amy McDuffie 57:31Yeah, that's, that's great to know, to Hannah about the productivity. I need to I need to work on that.Hannah Choi 57:39Yeah, it's and I've actually asked my, a lot of my college clients, I challenged them to not have their phone with them when they're working. And they all begrudgingly admit that yes, they were more productive when their phone wasn't. So yes. But yeah, it is it is a powerful distractor having that there. SoAmy McDuffie 58:01yeah, definitely. Yeah.Hannah Choi 58:03All right. So let's see. Here's some more though is two more that will combine any tips for college freshmen with ADHD? What may be some good routines to practice over the summer? Great question. And then how do I help my teen who was diagnosed last month with ADHD? Learn some strategies to make things easier on them during the summer? While the pressure of school is off? Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. Amy McDuffie 58:32Yes, are so great. And I, I love the thoughtfulness behind that. And, you know, taking advantage of summer time being, you know, a low stakes situation without the pressure school. And I really think it's a great time to work on things like organizational skills, whether it's your physical space to get that set up, you know, before school starts, or, you know, working on, you know, learning to use a planner or a Calendar, Google Calendar. This is something that I actually work on with my kids during the summer. You know, in terms of, you know, Google Calendar, and you know, helping them manage whether my daughter is dog sitting or babysitting, she uses like a physical wall calendar as well. So you know, whatever the organizational system is, that's going to be helpful just to get in the habit of using that. I feel like it's really important over the summer. What about you?Hannah Choi 59:29Yeah, yes, I'm working on that right now with a client where I'm encouraging them to. I joke and say, you have to change your relationship with your planner, you have to move beyond just holding hands. And so yeah, so I'm really encouraging them to write everything down in their calendar. And it's like you said, it's such a low stakes time. So even when they're going to hang out with friends, I encourage them to put it in their calendar. So they can just get in the habit of making the calendar event, you know, and then maybe even sharing it with their friends with their friends can also have it on their calendar, just to be a little bit of a role model and also have some built in some accountability. So, that's is such a great time to practice it.Amy McDuffie 1:00:20One of my clients, we actually started this summer, working on a schedule for laundry.Hannah Choi 1:00:27Because there's so many executive function skills. Yes, yes. And cooking, too.Amy McDuffie 1:00:33It's a good one, too. But yeah, so you know, even things like, you know, working on, you know, managing your chores, or, you know, setting up a plan to manage your laundry can be really hard to work on in the summertime. Yeah, so with one of my clients was laundry, like, we literally, you know, worked on making a schedule and a plan for the week of, you know, when to tackle laundry, and, you know, even down to, you know, pulling in some habit stacking that in the morning, right after the shower, we're going to start laundry and, and go from there. And it was really effective. And I think that's such a helpful thing to focus on in the summertime,Hannah Choi 1:01:16Especially for kids who are heading off to college. And we've, you know, we've talked about that, before, it's come up on a couple conversations on the podcast anyway, it's such a huge, huge thing. And there's so many executive function skills out there. Yeah. And also cooking to cooking is a really great way to practice executive function skills of planning and prioritizing and organization, and time management. And it, there's so many involved in there. And then also, they're learning the valuable skill of how to cook right is so important as you prepare to leave to leave the nest. Yeah, though. Yeah, absolutely. You're right. It is, it's such like a great low stakes environment to practice those things. And they, and they really, and you don't need to practice them in an academic way. You know, like the examples that we just gave have nothing to do with academics. But, and that's what's so cool about executive function coaching is how transferable all of the skills that our clients learn, like, like our student clients, learn, you know, strategies to support their academics, but all of those strategies are transferable to, you know, their daily life activities. It's pretty cool.Amy McDuffie 1:02:36Yeah, absolutely. And it's, it's so valuable, too, because, you know, just thinking about things like laundry and cooking, I mean, those are skills, you you have to have your entire life unless, you know, you're in a situation where someone does that for you have to learn to manage those things. And I think back and I wish that someone had like, either really kind of worked on those things with me in a more direct way. I mean, I figured them out, as we do. Yeah, right. Right. You know, it really does just make me aware of the value of, you know, really directly teaching the skills and the systems that you can apply across the board.Hannah Choi 1:03:19And what is so great about that is that you can directly teach your kids those, those executive function skills without them even realizing that they're learning. So, you know, if you sat down and very, very formally said, now, we should work on time management, and, you know, like prioritizing, they're gonna roll their eyes and say, No, thank you. But, you know, just don't mention them and they're gonna learn them just accidentally.Amy McDuffie 1:03:48Exactly, exactly. There's so many ways to naturally weave that in. Yes, yeah. If we, if we formally approach it with our own kids, I feel like at that point, like, they're, they're no longer listening. Yeah.Hannah Choi 1:04:01That's right. It's like when they're little and you would like, I don't know, you'd like hide the spinach and something tasty. Like, if you tell them there's spinach in here, they're gonna like, I'm not gonna eat that. decided in there. They don't know. Exactly, exactly. Sorry, kids. Parenting is all about tricking you.Amy McDuffie 1:04:23It's actually it's not manipulation. It's education. Hannah Choi 1:04:28That's right, disguised as a brownie or laundry. Amy McDuffie 1:04:32You'll think this later.Hannah Choi 1:04:34And you'll do the same to yours if you have them. Thanks again for joining me, Amy, such a pleasure.Amy McDuffie 1:04:41Absolutely. Hannah. This was great. Thank you so much.Hannah Choi 1:04:45And that is our show for today. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen, I hope you learned something new about ADHD or maybe you just found a new view of it. It truly can be a superpower with the right interventions. tools and strategies. As I mentioned before, if you want to watch the entire webinar, you can find the link to it in the show notes. I also included some links to the slides that we shared during the webinar. I hope you join me at our next webinar. You can find more about our upcoming events by signing up for beyond book smarts monthly newsletter, the monthly think, or by checking the Events page in the resources section of our website. If you know anyone who might want to learn more about ADHD, please share this episode with them. You can reach out to me at podcast at beyond booksmart.com and also you can subscribe to Focus Forward on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. And as always, if you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can give us a boost by giving us a five star rating. We would love it. Sign up for our newsletter at beyond booksmart.com/podcast will let you know when new episodes drop and we'll share information related to the topic. Thanks for listening

Resilience is a topic I've wanted to explore for a long time on the podcast. After all, how can we continue to work on ourselves if our progress is always getting cut short? So in this week's episode, we're going to explore 6 tips for becoming more resilient in your life. When I started doing the research for today's episode on how to handle sliding back when you've made some progress, something about my search terms brought up a bunch of articles on how to handle sliding while driving on icy roads. I was going to pass these over but then I got a little distracted and a little curious about what the pros have to say about this. Living in New England, knowing how to handle driving on icy roads is a requirement so I thought I should brush up on my knowledge. And, as I read through the article, I realized that all of the tips they suggested applied quite well to sliding back when making progress! So, today's episode is a two-fer! It will teach you about managing both sliding while driving on icy roads and sliding back after making good progress. Once again, Focus Forward to the rescue! Here are some resources related to the episode.How to handle backslides: https://www.scottsfortcollinsauto.com/what-do-you-do-if-your-car-is-sliding-on-ice/Resilience Resources:https://www.apa.org/topics/resiliencehttps://www.child-encyclopedia.com/resilience/according-experts/protective-role-executive-function-skills-high-risk-environmentshttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6403185/https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/how_to_hardwire_resilience_into_your_brainJames Clear: https://jamesclear.com/get-back-on-trackEmotional regulation: https://developingchild.harvard.edu/science/key-concepts/executive-function/Consistency: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9iZTI4OGFjL3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz/episode/NDBjMDBiMTUtMzMwMy00OGVjLWI2OWMtMGE3ZjNmNDlmZGI3?ep=14Breaking streaks:https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/202306/how-broken-streaks-sap-motivationContact us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscript:Before I get started today, I wanted to ask for a favor! If you are listening on Apple Podcasts, could you scroll down to the bottom of the Focus Forward section of the app and give us a rating? Hopefully 5 stars?? Also, if you have any episode topic ideas, please email me at podcast at beyond bookmart.com! I'd love to hear from you. Okay, let's get going.When I started doing the research for today's episode on how to handle sliding back when you've made some progress, something about my search terms brought up a bunch of articles on how to handle sliding while driving on icy roads. I was going to pass these over but then I got a little distracted and a little curious about what the pros have to say about this. Living in the NE, knowing how to handle driving on icy roads is a requirement so I thought I should brush up on my knowledge. And, as I read through the article, I realized that all of the tips they suggested applied quite well to sliding back when making progress! So, today's episode is a two-fer! It will teach you about managing both sliding while driving on icy roads and sliding back after making good progress. Once again, Focus Forward to the rescue! The article I'll refer to throughout the episode is aptly called “What Do You Do If Your Car is Sliding on Ice?” and it was written by someone at Scott's Automotive and Service Centers, Inc with locations throughout Colorado and Arizona. You can find a link to it in the show notes if you want more information or want to read their other well-written and informative articles. Before I dive into the article, I wanted to share some science-y stuff about executive function and resilience, because resilience is basically what I'm exploring today - managing the challenge of sliding back after having made some progress. We need to be resilient to get back on the horse, if you will. Research has shown that there is a direct connection between resilience and executive function skills. It appears that when your executive functioning is strong, your sense of self-efficacy is strengthened, as well. Self-efficacy, as we have talked about before in a couple of other episodes, is the belief that you have the ability to motivate yourself, accomplish tasks, and make decisions.Studies have also shown that adolescents have a better time adjusting to school when they have stronger executive functioning and are more resilient. As a coach, I see this all the time in my college clients. After I've worked with them for a while and they've created some systems that work really well to support their EF skills, I see them being more resilient. They head into difficult times during the school year with more confidence and they come through it having had a better experience. If you'd like to do some reading on resilience and executive function, check out the show notes because I stuck some articles in there that you might find interesting. So, here's another reason to work on building your executive function skills, especially as teenagers and young adults. Okay, so back to icy driving conditions. Scott's Automotive shared six tips for icy driving success in the article. I'll review them all and tie them to some executive functioning strategies that can help us when we feel like we're taking two steps forward and one step back, which by the way, is very normal, just like ice.Tip #1No Brakes!The article reads, “Your first impulse when you feel yourself slipping out of control–literally–is to apply your brakes and stop the vehicle.” You're not supposed to do that, even though you really want to, as it will make your slide worse. This can apply when we feel like we're sliding back or not making progress on our goals. It can be tempting to give up, to put on the brakes and say, “well, apparently I'm just bad at doing this new habit” and decide that we're not qualified to even try to make this positive change. To me, this black and white kind of thinking is a great way to interrupt any progress you were making and make your slide even worse. Practicing dialectical thinking in this situation is a good thing to try. Dialectical thinking allows us to hold two opposing thoughts in our heads at one time and recognize and accept that both can be true. “I overslept again! I should just give up on being a morning person” becomes, “It feels like I'm not making any progress on getting up earlier because I overslept again and I'm willing to keep trying”. This can help us be less rigid in our thinking and allow us to continue to look for alternative tools and strategies to help us reach our goals. Remember that cognitive flexibility from episode 21? Dialectical thinking is a great way to use those cognitive flexibility skills you have been working on developing.Okay, on to Tip #2Turn into the slideThis part of managing icy driving has always boggled my mind, but they're right! The article agrees and says, “This goes against your instincts, but to help when you are sliding, you actually want to turn in the direction of the slide.” When I saw this, it really resonated with me and it kind of goes along with the previous tip. When we're sliding back, changing our viewpoint from seeing it as a failure to seeing it as an opportunity to learn, can make a huge difference. Really lean into it, turn into that perceived “failure”. Embrace it as an opportunity to learn, an opportunity to find something that works better than what we've already been trying. Or, maybe it will just help us find the patience to accept ourselves, even when we're not making the progress we wish we were, with grace and love and compassion. The last lines of this section of the article are just so perfect for this: “Gently maneuver the wheel. Correcting your slide in one direction, will result in the car returning back in the opposite direction before it, ultimately, stabilizes. Expect this rocking back and forth motion and respond with care.” Let's do the same with ourselves and respond with care.Okay, next up, Tip #3Avoid oversteeringAgain, the article comes through with a tip that so perfectly applies to learning how to manage it when we slide back when making progress. It reads, “If you oversteer, you can put the car in a full spin.” I see oversteering as completely overhauling our systems when we feel like we're failing, sliding back, or not making the progress we want to see. There's actually no need to oversteer. Take some time to reflect on the progress you HAVE made and see what tools or strategies DO work for you. See how you can modify those, if needed. Make small, incremental changes instead of major ones. Work at slowly changing your thinking about your progress. I bet you there are wins in there that you're just not seeing. There's no need to throw away that planner if you miss a meeting or give up running just because you missed a couple runs in your 5k training plan. Look at your planner - what did work? How many meetings did you not miss? What strategies can you use to make your planner work better for you? Look at your 5k training plan - what days and times seem to be the easiest for you to go running? What can you do to prevent injury? Are you drinking enough water? When we feel like we're sliding, pausing and taking some time to think, reflect, troubleshoot, and find small wins you might be overlooking is much more effective than overhauling your whole system or oversteering your car.Okay, now for Tip #4Stay calmOh, Scott's Automotive and Service Centers, you know the key to my heart and to our thinking brains. Emotional regulation! The article states, “Staying calm is key. Panic will cause you to oversteer and can result in a more serious slide, spin or accident.” If you have listened to this podcast for a while, you'll have heard me say a million times that we can only fully access our executive function skills when we are calm. When we allow our emotions to take over, it's really, really difficult to think about what to do when we are challenged by something, when we find ourselves sliding back. Staying calm is the key to the resiliency we need to recover from these perceived setbacks. If you haven't yet discovered what strategies help regulate yourself when you're feeling overwhelmed, discouraged, frustrated, scared, or anxious, listen up! Sometimes it's as simple as taking some calming breaths. At BBS we coaches really love 5-finger breathing, where you trace your fingers up and down while breathing in and out. Another breathing strategy that lots of people find helpful is square breathing - you breathe in for four counts, hold for four counts, breathe out for four and then hold again for four and then repeat this cycle as long as you can. But you don't even have to get fancy like this - just taking some slow, controlled breaths can really make a difference. I've heard lots of people say that breathing is just not for them. I'd like to push back a little on that and say that breathing is actually for everyone - it's literally keeping you alive right now! Just give one of these breathing exercises a shot! You might be surprised at how helpful it can be.Practicing healthy, supportive self-talk is another tip for staying calm. When I'm out running and I'm struggling, I always tell myself “Hannah, you can do this”. If you listened to episode 1 about managing failure, you may remember me talking about this strategy. Speaking kindly to ourselves with supportive words during times of stress can really help regulate our emotions. So, whether you're sliding on ice or just sliding back from making progress, try motivating yourself with a little supportive self-talk.Mindfulness is another great strategy for managing our emotions. Learning how to pay attention to our bodies and how they're feeling, bringing our focus back to what we're doing, and noticing small things around us can all help with emotional regulation - and tricky winter driving! There are a ton of different approaches to mindfulness, including stopping to pay attention to something we normally just do without thinking or sitting for a 10-minute meditation session. However you approach mindfulness is up to you - research shows that it really and truly does positively impact our emotional regulation.In order for these strategies to be really effective when we need them, we have to practice them. If you listened to episode 26 with Dr. Alison Roy, you might remember me saying that I started practicing square breathing while I'm driving. Hopefully it'll come in handy this winter when I'm navigating some icy roads.Next up, Tip #5Prevent sliding by reducing your speedIf road conditions are poor, we should all be driving more slowly to begin with. The article explains ”If the roads are icy, or covered in snow, it is important to slow your vehicle. The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration advises that you reduce your speed by 1/3 on wet roads and by 1/2 (or more) on snow-packed roads.” This is such great advice for changing habits, too. The process of building or breaking habits is not easy or fast. There are no quick fixes. There's no magic wand. Barreling into trying to make change with the expectation that you'll somehow, miraculously become perfect instantly is unreasonable and is sure to set you up for disappointment. We are human, We are not perfect. Slow down, take small steps, give yourself some grace and some time. Look in the rearview mirror and see what's worked for you and what hasn't. Strive for excellence, not perfection. And last, and certainly not least, Tip #6Call for an Auto Check-upScott's Automotive says “Another way to stay safe during inclement weather conditions is to ensure that your car is prepared for the weather.” This is true for our minds and bodies, as well. When we are healthy and taken care of, it is easier to manage sliding back. Prioritizing self-care is critical. Just as you make sure your cars' tires have enough tread and your brakes are not worn out, we need to make sure that we are eating well, sleeping well, and moving our bodies. Going to the doctor regularly and making sure you're doing what you can to stay healthy is critical for success, especially when you're challenged by tricky stuff. It is much easier to access the executive function skills we need to be resilient when our bodies are happy. Part of this last tip involves asking for help. I don't know about you, but there's not much I understand about fixing cars, so I need to ask the mechanic for help. In fact, as I write this, our car is in the shop for new brakes. If you need help with your executive function skills, ask for it! It can be scary to say I need help, but giving ourselves permission to do that can lead to growth far beyond anything we ever thought possible. Asking for help does not mean you are weak, or ignorant, or anything like that. It actually means you are smart and confident. I have had so many clients say to me, “I was so afraid to admit I needed help” or “I was afraid to share my struggles” but as soon as they did, they felt a great weight off their shoulders and were able to start moving towards finding solutions to their challenges. And, let me tell you, as much as I'm preaching this right now, I, too, find it very difficult to ask for help. But, I take a deep breath and do it, because I'm worth it. Well, there you go! If you live in the north, you've had a refresh on how to handle sliding on ice and if you live in the south, you've had a chance to be glad you don't live where it snows. And hopefully you've all learned some tips for handling sliding back while working towards your goals. Before I go, I wanted to share some advice that some of my fellow coaches shared on this topic. Denise McMahon shared that she uses backslides as an opportunity to have her clients consider questions like:Am I facing any new or unforeseen barriers?Have I really slid backward or am I expecting myself to be perfect?Do I need to tweak my tools and strategies to gain some momentum again?Am I shaming myself or creating negative stories that are preventing me from taking the next step?What's one small thing I can say yes to?Can I introduce novelty to respark my interest?And, Tina Conte shared a great quote from author, Robert Brault:...taking a step backwardafter taking a step forward is not a disaster, it's a cha-cha.”And that's our show for today. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen. Be sure to check out the show notes for further reading. Please share our podcast with your friends, family, and colleagues. We appreciate it so much! You can reach out to me at podcast@beyondbooksmart.com. I would love to hear from you. Please subscribe to Focus Forward on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. If you listen on Apple podcasts or spotify, give us a boost by giving us 5-star rating! Sign up for our newsletter at www.beyondbooksmart.com slash podcast. We'll let you know when new episodes drop and share information related to the topic. Thanks for listening!

In this week's episode, we explore the fascinating world of the human brain and its impact on stress management, parenting, and relationships. We had the privilege of inviting Dr. Alison Roy, a licensed clinical psychologist, and a bona fide brain enthusiast. I first heard Dr. Roy speak during the pandemic, and her insights on the brain, trauma, stress, and parenting were truly impactful.In our conversation, Dr. Roy sheds light on the science behind our reactions to stress and provides practical advice on how to maintain control and leverage our executive function skills—the skills governed by the pre-frontal cortex, a term you've probably heard me mention quite often. The aim? To improve and maintain our relationships, make parenting a bit easier, and in general, navigate life with a better understanding of our own minds.I urge you to listen to this episode, even if you're not a parent or caregiver. Much of the advice that Dr. Roy shares is universally applicable, and her passion for educating others about the brain is truly infectious. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I relished being a part of it.Here are some relevant resources related to the conversation:Dan Siegel's Bookshttps://drdansiegel.com/books/Hand Model of the Brain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-m2YcdMdFwPolyvagal theory in practicehttps://ct.counseling.org/2016/06/polyvagal-theory-practice/YouTube Video of Dr. Stephen Porges explaining the polyvagal theoryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec3AUMDjtKQMaslow's hierarchy of needshttps://www.thoughtco.com/maslows-hierarchy-of-needs-4582571Dr. Alison Roy's websitewww.dralisonroy.comSlides from Dr. Roy's Presentationhttps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Pk9stUBGV0L0X4ES6Csb5_BXTjbGndfZBeyond BookSmarthttps://www.beyondbooksmart.com/Contact us!Reach out to us at podcast@beyondbooksmart.comIG/FB/TikTok @beyondbooksmartcoachingTranscriptHannah Choi 00:04Hi everyone and welcome to Focus Forward, an executive function Podcast where we explore the challenges and celebrate the wins you'll experience as you change your life by working on improving your executive function skills. I'm your host, Hannah Choi. Hannah Choi 00:18Yay, I am so excited to bring you today's show. As a parent and an official member of the brain nerd club, I am totally geeking out about my guest, Dr. Allison Roy. Allison is a licensed clinical psychologist, and she loves the brain and teaching people about it even more than I do. I first heard her speak during the pandemic, and her presentations on the brain and trauma and stress and parenting were just exactly what I needed at that time. And I still use what I learned from her even today, when I had the opportunity to see her speak again recently, I knew I had to get her on Focus Forward so you all could listen and learn from her, too. In our conversation about stress and how our brains are impacted by it, Allison shared some really practical things that we can do to manage that stress and stay in our thinking brains, you know that prefrontal cortex, you've heard me mention, oh, a billion times. This way, we can use our executive function skills to improve and maintain our relationships with the people in our families, and make parenting a little easier. If you're not a parent, or a caregiver of kiddos, I encourage you to listen anyway, especially to the first part, most of the advice that Allison shares really does apply to all of us. I truly hope you enjoy this conversation, as much as I enjoyed being a part of it. Now on to the show. Hannah Choi 01:55Hi, Alison, thank you so much for coming today, to talk with me about the brain, and parenting and executive function skills. I am just going to share with the listeners a little bit about how I met you. I during the pandemic you gave some presentations, virtual presentations through our public school system. And I'm not kidding when I say that those presentations and the way that you presented it made just like a massive difference for me and my family during the pandemic and actually get emotional when I think about it. Because like that was such a difficult time. But learning, learning about the brain and learning about what some actual, like real things that I could do that would make a difference made such a difference. And it also really informed my coaching. And it just informed my, my I already really loved the brain. So it just like reinforced that. So thank you so much for that. Yeah. And then we were reconnected recently when you spoke again, at our for our parent presentation. And again in our school systems, which was excellent. And so thank you so much for coming on the podcast,Dr. Alison Roy 03:09Of course, I'm really excited to be here. And it's so fun to be able to do stuff virtually. When you're not, you know, I'm in New Hampshire. And it's not always, you know, right down the road. So it's nice to be able to connect to different places and areas of the world. It's one thing that pandemic gave us.Hannah Choi 03:26Yes, yes. Yep. And it's amazing. You can still have such an impact on someone's life even virtually so. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so would you introduce yourselves to listeners and explain a little bit about your background?Dr. Alison Roy 03:43Yeah, so my name is Dr. Alison Roy. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist in the state of New Hampshire. I'm located in Exeter, New Hampshire, which is right on the seacoast area of New Hampshire. And I've been a psychologist for about two decades now. And I've practiced all over the world, I've had really cool opportunity to live in Europe and live in Asia and learn a lot and see a lot and experience a lot as a psychologist but also as a mom and as a family. So to my kids were born overseas. And so it's been a really fun adventure to kind of just see the world and learn a lot about human brains everywhere. As Hannah said, I'm a total brain nerd. I love understanding the neuro psychology or neurobiology of what's going on. When we're having real life experiences. It's validating to know that there's really things happening in our brain as to why we're feeling or thinking or doing in that moment. I specialize actually in post traumatic stress disorder and trauma. And that's how I got called upon quite a bit during the pandemic because we were all kind of going through something it was the first time we could really say that we were had a global trauma or stressful event and so a lot of districts, school districts did right by the parents. In our district and invited experts in to talk about why this was really hard. And it continues to be hard. We're all still healing from those couple of years. So I'm excited to come on today and talk about what that might look like in your own home. And hopefully it's validating and acknowledges, you know, some of what you experience every day. And and yeah, we'll do a little little brain learning together, too. Hannah Choi 05:22Cool. Thank you. Yeah, that validation piece was really important. For me when you gave that presentation, it made me feel better about like, why am I feeling this way? Oh, okay. It made a lot more sense. And I felt like, yeah, and then I felt like I could forgive myself a little bit, which, which felt really good. Dr. Alison Roy 05:40So good. Good. Like I said, so I'm a parent, too so I get it. I get it. I have three little guys. So yeah,Hannah Choi 05:46Yes, yes, you do get it. Yeah. So I would love for you to kind of just maybe even just do the same presentation that you did before. Because even though I knew a lot of what you shared, just hearing it, there's something about the way that you present all the information that just makes it really accessible and understandable. So would you share with our listeners, what you've taught, so many people about the brain and stress and how to manage it all. Dr. Alison Roy 06:18iI would love to. It's my favorite thing, to talk about the brain, I'm gonna pull up some slides, just mostly, as I was, you know, we were chatting before we got on today and started recording, I really just need help staying on track, actually, so. So it's helpful for me to have some slides to look at, so that I stay focused.Hannah Choi 06:39So I will, before you start, I just want to say that I will share these graphics in the show notes for anyone who's listening. So you can look along if you'd like.Dr. Alison Roy 06:49Absolutely, yeah, there's not gonna be there's gonna be three slides, I think three or four, maybe that will be good to kind of check out so. But I'll do my best to make it feel like you're looking at something even if you're just listening to us today. So so let's talk about this human brain of ours, and what happens when we experience stressful events. And these stressful events can come in a variety of ways. So certainly, you'll hear me talk about, alright, this is really what we're going to talk about today is that fight, flight, or freeze reaction that we have. And so we think about this a lot when we think about life threatening situations. So I always use the universally scary situation for all of us of being chased by a bear because I feel like I don't know if there's a human on this planet that would find that to be intimidating. So if you're being chased by a bear, you want this system to kick in and save your life. However, which is great, right, we have this great human system to do that, for us to to save our lives. However, your human brain does that reaction that fight flight or freeze reaction for many different reasons. And it could be that in a singular moment, you've something alerts your brain, and we're going to talk about how that would all the things that happen in that millisecond in your brain allows your brain to think, Oh, this is a life or death situation, when it's not actually and you have that reaction, your brain can also be pushed into that fight flight or freeze mode very gradually. So I call it the slow build or the fast punch. So it can happen in a fast punch type of way, like being chased by a bear or having a in the moment reaction. Or it could be that slow build, where you're you've had a stressful week. And just one more thing happens and you feel like you kind of fly off the handle or go into that fight flight or freeze mode. So again, this this part of our brain is is really amazing. And we want it to work because it saves our lives, it just can be a little frustrating when it's a really active system that fight flight or freeze systems activating a lot or too much. And we're being pushed into this red brain zone that we're going to talk about in a minute. So let's talk about these three zones. If you're a listen to this podcast regularly, you know a lot about that green zone up there, that executive functioning zone, that frontal lobe, that's where all of our beautiful executive functions are housed. And we only have access to our whole, all the colors of the brain, when we're at rest and digest. We call it rest and digest when we're at rest, when we're not stressed or not thinking of a million things or running around or doing a bunch of errands or you know have a project do at work and all the all the things are happening. So when we're when we're at rest, we have access to our full brain. So in other words, you don't need to have a diagnosis of ADHD in order to have the frontal lobe part of your brain be impacted and have a difficult time with some error executive functions. Because stress stress interferes with your ability to really access those at their full potential. So that's the green part of the brain as the first part of the brain that comes offline when we start to become stressed unfortunately. So the next part of the brain next part down is called the kind of the blue brain or the emotional brain. This part of the brain is all All about feeling, not about rational thoughts. So I like to call this part of the brain, the toddler section of the brain, about a toddler, right? They're all about big, big emotions, zero rational or logical thoughts. So that's really what the Blue Brain is all about, and needs the green brain in order to have that more rational or logical thought process. So when that green brain comes off line, you're left with a lot of emotions. And those emotions dictate your fight flight or freeze mode. And as you can probably imagine, if you're not connected to ration or logic, and you start to have an experience that might be overwhelming that emotion can overwhelm you and send you into that fight flight or freeze mode pretty easily. And then there's the red brain, the red brain is our survival brain, our reptilian brain, you've probably heard it called these things. Its sole job and purpose is to keep us alive. And so again, really cool part of the brain, really frustrating when it's in the driver's seat too much. And so what that part of the brain is engineered to do is be in control of our heart rate, our respiration, our blood pressure, our sleep wake cycles in our satiation queues, whether we're hungry or thirsty. And that's it. So as you can probably imagine, you've heard this used before, right? Like I can't even think about tomorrow, I just have to get through today. This is the kind of language we use when we're in that red brain, or we're just not hungry. Because we're just so focused or so stressed on getting through that part of the day. Dr. Alison Roy 11:33And so the red brain, when it takes over really only wants you to focus on those kind of survival functions, it doesn't want you to focus on doing math or being organized, or quite frankly, having empathy or compassion for others. So you can see how when you think about how you are as a human, when you're really stressed, we're not our best selves. And so we when we get pushed down into that red brain, that's the reason why that happens. So let's take a deeper look at how that happens. It's not something that we have control over, and nor do we want to have control over it. Because again, we want this to be the most instant automatic function that we have, because it's survival based. And so again, if a bear pops out of the woods, when you're hiking, you want to not think at all about your pot, you know, what you could do to get away you want your body to kind of react naturally. And hopefully, you freeze, right running away, or fighting a bear is not the option that your body wants you. And we're going to learn that we can go either way fight or flight or freeze, and that we all have the ability to go either way it as I'm talking a minute, I'm going to talk about those two kind of options, and what they look like in real life. And you can think about yourself or your spouse or partner your own children and kind of think about where they might fall, because some of us tend to have an automatic stress response of either fight or flight or freeze. But we have the ability to go either way. And sometimes it's dependent on the stimulus or what's happening in our environment that pushes us into that red brain. Okay, so when our amygdala, which is a very tiny structure is a tiny but mighty, very tiny structure in our brain that is working constantly. It works about three to 10 times a second, if you've never experienced any traumatic event, if you have any sort of traumatic event in your history, or you're just having a really stressful week, your amygdala is hyperactive hypersensitive, so it can be up to a scanning the room that you're in up to 100 times a second, so very, very active. So it's, it's like a smoke alarm or smoke detector. So its job is to scan your environment and decide if anything in that environment is scary, upsetting, worrisome, overwhelming, uncertain, even, like exciting. So even really positive over like big emotions can cause this amygdala to react. And the amygdala gets all its information to make this decision from your five senses. So it's use very, very connected to your five senses, meaning it uses smell, it uses temperature, sense of touch, temperature, sensing, Sight, Sound, so I like to give the example of one time I was I was talking about this with I work a lot with educators. I was sitting in a room with educated with a group of educators. And we all I'm, I'm quite literally talking about this slide and the smell of gas started coming into the room. And so you can see all the rooms kind of gets a little wide eyed and let's start looking around. That's your amygdala kind of going, um, something's going on here and like smell the gas and I know that means that this could potentially be a bad situation. So again, it's are five senses that tip off the amygdala. And have it kind of sound the alarm for lack of better words in our brain. And a cascade of actions and reactions happen very quickly. So again, this activates very quickly, you can think about when you get really upset, I was talking the other day about, when I get really upset, or my kids get really upset, we're a family of Door-slammers. So we'll kind of stomp off and slam the door. And of course, if you had rational, logical thought happening, you would know not to slam the door. But in that moment, that's the way your body's releasing that reaction. So that this cascade of actions and reactions start happening. So the amygdala says, "Oops, something's going on". It shuts down the green brain, and most of the Blue Brain, it kind of stops, I've seen the brain scans is stopped sending neuronal activity there. So those areas of the brain, when you look at like an fMRI or an MRI, you can see that the areas of the brain where there's neuronal activity happening, it's all colored, it's all lit up. And when this happens, it goes completely dark. So we kind of shoot go right down into this red brain. Because our brain is saying, I need to survive, right now I need to spend all my energy, all my neuronal activity, just within this red brain of focus in this very moment on survival. So green brain and Blue Brain mostly kind of shut down activity. Also, our left side of our brain goes completely offline as well. And the left side of the brain is where all the else so if you've ever read anything I learned with Dan Siegel at all, he's a great, he's a great person to look up and kind of explore a little bit, the whole brain child is his book. It's one of his books, he has many by great parenting books. But he talks about all the ELLs are all housed on the left side of the brain language, linear logic, all these beautiful ELLs while you lose them all when you go into the stress mode. And so you lose your words, you can't put good sentences together, you can't have a good linear sense of time. So you're kind of mental timeline gets all messed up. And so, so all of this is, believe it or not, all of this has happening in that moment, when you start to become stressed. Your memory processes also shifts. So the way we remember things shifts very much to our five senses. And that's where we get kind of trauma triggers from as our brain latches on to those five senses. In that moment, it doesn't remember things with language, because the language centers aren't accessible. And we lose our words, like I said, we lose our ability to have language in that moment, and certainly, this is one of my favorites, ways of looking at all this beautiful executive functions. So all of what you're seeing on this screen is all of the executive functions list. So impulse control, be able to take turns focus, concentrate, attend, have perspective, taking have empathy, all of that is, is beautiful, and a beautiful part of our human brain will all of it goes out the window when we start to go down into this read brain. And so as you can probably imagine, as an adult, you know, you know this, we have a fully developed frontal lobe by about 25 ish. And so we have the best frontal lobe we could possibly have. So when we lose a lot of this in a stressful moment, we still have more capacity than a child does. Because a kiddo doesn't have that fully developed frontal lobe yet. And so when they go into stress brain, we really see some big reactions with very little logic or rational thinking. And they tend to go on much longer, think epic temper tantrums, because they don't have this ability to access any sort of frontal lobe functions. Okay, so last little part I'll talk about today. And maybe one more slide. But this this is, so this is not my image. But you can see that the website that's on there, they have some great information as well around mental health and just they have these graphics that they produce, to be able to help people be able to talk about this stuff more, they just want to promote people talking about it, which is great. And so what I like about this is it shows in real life, and I'm going to talk about this what it looks like when we're having that red brain reaction that fight flight or freeze reaction. And this is based on the polyvagal theory of the stress response system. And that's Porges' theory. And again, if you Google polyvagal theory, you'll come up with lots of really fascinating information. There's volumes and volumes written about it. And it's my favorite way of kind of thinking about or talking about the stress response because I feel like to me when the first time I learned this, it was so incredibly validating because it just made the neuroscience make sense for real light. Yeah. So let's look at this for a second. So In the middle, this, the person you see in the middle is at rest and digest, meaning there is no alarm bells going off with the amygdala, all parts of the brain are online. And she's quite literally at rest and digest, which means she looks happy or relaxed. She looks happy. Yeah, this is what we want to be at, right? This is where I would hope we would spend most of our time. So you know, she's able to have a heart rate, that's nice and even blood pressure's in good shape, respiratory systems in good shape. And she's quite literally able to digest her food, actually heard a really interesting NPR story, just coming out of the pandemic. So probably late last year, when they were talking, they're interviewing primary care doctors who said they were prescribing and acids or digestive aids at like a very high rate. And it's makes sense because we spent so much time being stressed our digestive systems, one of the first systems that will be implicated in that. So we can't digest our food if we're not if everything else isn't at rest. And so it is going to see if you have heartburn, indigestion, belly aches, tummy aches, and we hear this a lot from our kids when they're stressed. It makes perfect sense because the digestive system gets very complicated.Hannah Choi 21:17I remember when I was in graduate school, I had really bad acid reflux. And now I know.Dr. Alison Roy 21:23Yes. Oh, absolutely. And terrible sleep patterns. Probably. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The two biggest disrupted system. So yeah, yep. And they're always my biggest red flag. So I always when a family comes to me, I do a lot of work. So I have a private practice as well. I do a lot of work with adolescents and young people and their families, I do a lot of family work. And that's one of the things I asked first about what are your sleep patterns, like what are eating patterns like, because often I can find a lot of clues within there, that the family system might be stressed. So if we're not at rest and digest, and we've seen over the past several years with what we've all been through, with a pandemic, and everything that has brought with it, that this window of rest and digest should be about here, and it's been it's shrunk, it's a little bit smaller for all of us, because we've just spent so much time being stressed. The beautiful part about the human brain, which you probably also know if you're a brain geek, like me is the human brain has neuroplasticity. So just because it's shrunk over the past couple of years doesn't mean we can't expand it as well. So that's good. That's a really great part. Yeah, it's a really beautiful part, you just have to work on it. And we're going to talk about so I'm on the left hand side, you see what looks like this same character in the middle who's at rest and digest has now been pushed into what we call hyper arousal, which is fight or flight. So you can see her kind of running away from the situation, which is a lot of our reactions. When we get really stressed either we physically run away, or we feel like I don't know if you've ever had that feeling where your body feels so agitated, like you just want to get out of the situation. Or yeah, yes. Or it comes out in aggression of some kind. Not all of us don't slam doors, like maybe my family does, but you feel like your fists might be clenching up, you feel your body tense up. So that is because in that hyper arousal fight or flight mode, we're producing so much adrenaline and cortisol, that our body to quite literally get ready to run away or fight something off. Our body doesn't really know what to do with that. And that produces certain symptoms, like irritability, anger, frustration, crying, again, stopping slamming doors, yelling, screaming, crying tantruming. So any of those over the top kind of emotional reactions, that's hyper arousal. Now I'm sure there's some of you out there going right now. Oh, yeah, no, that's me. I definitely do that. Just hyper aroused, stressed person. So if that resonates with you, that is real, and there's a reason why that's happening. So, or if that resonates for your kiddos, if you have a kiddo that becomes very overly emotional when they're upset as well, that that hyper arousal reaction. Now on the other side of the screen is our character kind of curled in a ball, head down, looking pretty sad or withdrawn. This is hypo arousal or freeze mode. So freeze doesn't always mean quite literally freeze, it means your body is shutting down in order to survive by reserving all of its resources. So your blood pressure is going to drop very, very low, your heart rates going to actually slow down, your breathing is going to slow down because your body's preparing to survive in a very different way. And so that's what we're seeing here and this looks very similar to depression. It looks like we don't want to engage with others, we want to kind of shut the world out, we want to just kind of go to sleep or sleeping in too much sleeping is often a sign of a stress response. So shutting down in that way, or I do see, especially some of my high achieving adolescents that I work with. And also we do this as adults a lot is what we call fawning or robotic compliance, where we're just like, everything's fine. I'm totally fine, everything's fine as one of our legs is quite literally on fire. So. So we do that, too. We try to avoid the stress and pretend like it's not happening, but then it almost always bubbles over in some way. So this is a polyvagal theory. So check it out, get some more information about it. I do really like it. And it makes sense to me. Okay, last slide. Like I promised, I just wanted to highlight. Again, if you're having some sort of stress in your life, some overwhelming stress in your life, there's systems that are most impacted by stress, our sleep, eating and digestion. So if you start to see disruptions in any of those areas, so sleep, having a hard time staying asleep, falling asleep, having nighttime disturbances, like nightmares, or night terrors, or sleeping too much. Usually, it's to avoid that might be a sign of stress eating, we either eat too much, because we're trying to sell suit or make ourselves feel better with food, or we're not eating enough because we're not attending to those social social cues that you didn't get the eating cues, association cues. Also, I just read a really interesting study about "hangriness". I don't know if anyone gets hangry. Yeah, I do. And so my kiddos, well, there's a good reason for that our cortisol levels are inversely related to how full or hungry we are. So we get really hungry. Our cortisol levels skyrocket. And so it's all about glucose and cortisol levels. And so there's a real again, a real reason why we get hangry.Hannah Choi 27:04That's also validating, to hear Yeah, right.Dr. Alison Roy 27:08Not crazy. There's reason why I get hangry. So bring snacks always bring snacks, and then digestion. And so if you have a kiddo, or yourself who's got some tummy troubles going on, you just always feel like you've got an upset stomach, even we feel this in very small amounts, if we're going to give a presentation or we have something that we're quite anxious or nervous for, right, we get that butterflies in our stomach. So all of this just kind of combined, is I find it validating. It makes me feel like okay, there's real stuff going on, when we start to become really stressed and go into that stress mode. So, yeah,Hannah Choi 27:44Great, thank you. I feel like something that I just have noticed in my life. And just everything that I hear from people is I feel like people talk sort of peripherally about sleep and make sure you sleep enough, make sure you eat enough, make sure you know, you're exercising or whatever. But but it almost feels like it's just like, oh, yeah, yeah, I know. But it's true. You really do need to, it's that conversation. I feel like needs to be taken more seriously. Or something. We need to change the message somehow this is not just Yeah, yeah, thing like, need to, like really address it.Dr. Alison Roy 28:25Yeah. And if you think about if you're familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs another really great accessible thing to Google will really resonate with a lot of listeners, I bet. But Maslow's hierarchy of needs is all about how do you achieve your full greatness, essentially, and you have to start the bottom part of the triangle, the bottom part of that triangle, the first step to achieving greatness is taking care of the most basic of needs. And if you don't do that, you can't move up the ladder. And so there is very good solid research decades and decades of research around sleep and eating and just the basic needs needing to be taken care of because our brain needs rest in order to have that ability to have neuroplasticity and grow and change.Hannah Choi 29:10Yeah, yeah. Yep. Great. So how is so how does so can you give some examples of like in someone's household, like how this kind of stress might impact everybody? Yeah, parents down to kids.Dr. Alison Roy 29:26Yeah. Yeah. So I always think about, you know, I, so I, I work a lot with the director of psychiatry at Dartmouth, and he and I have become really good friends and I have a really tough situation I'm working through I often call him and I did that for one of the families I was working with. I said, I just need some help. I need some strategies on what to do next. And he's said, sounds like you've got a polyvagal storm happening in that family. And I loved that concept of that image of that poly vagal reaction. I was just describing fight flight or freeze, if you're all having it individually as a family, you're all going to be having it as a family unit. And because our brains do play off each other. So there's lots of really good research out there about mirror neurons, which are also part of our frontal lobe. And our mirror neurons talk to other human brains, especially ones that we're very connected to. So our family members, all of our mirror neurons are very, very connected. And so when we start to get stressed, meaning us as parents, our kids brains are going to automatically respond to that. And it's crazy, if you were to, if you were to spend a lot of time being stressed as parents, and you looked at your cortisol levels, and even though your kids are experiencing that stressor, maybe it's a stressor at work, or you know, it's adult stuff that your kids aren't necessarily aware of, but there's cortisol levels are going to rise to meet yours. So our brains are very interconnected in that way and can play off each other stress wise. So it is important, we as parents are guilty of not taking care of ourselves very well sometimes. But if I can, yeah, it's hard if I can get you to buy into doing some self care for for you, but also for your kiddos, because the more you stay regulated, the more likely they're also going to be regulated. And you won't get caught up in that polyvagal storm.Hannah Choi 31:26Yeah, I remember that so much. Especially when my kids were younger. I I just remember thinking like, oh, yeah, this is we're all we're all like feeding off of each other right now. Nobody is helping anybody right now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember one particular moment, right after my son was born. So now. So at this point, I have like, maybe like a month old baby, and then a three year old and then me. And then my husband was working from home. And he came up from his basement office, and the three of us were sitting on the couch crying. He was like, oh, no, what happened? And I knew what happened. Yeah. We all I'm sure needed a snack. Dr. Alison Roy 32:09Yeah, and probably a nap. So yeah, we started there, or you're probably tired, or you're probably hungry. SoHannah Choi 32:17Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have a strategy that we teach our clients that you maybe you've even heard of, because I don't think we came up with it. HALT stands for like hungry, angry or anxious, Lonely or Tired. And it's such a good thing to check in, check in on.Dr. Alison Roy 32:32Yeah, and one of the, one of the ways so we've we've already talked about a couple of the ways to stop this polyvagal response from happening in his tracks, is to, you know, figure out basic needs or there's some sort of basic need, because if you're hungry, if you're tired, you will trigger that red brain response. Whether even if like your amygdala picks up on nothing else in the environment. Unfortunately, your amygdala also picks up on internal cues. So even if you're thinking about something that's stressful, your amygdala will also pick up on that. So even if the environment around you is as calm as can be. So um, so yeah, we always talk about that strategy. But also, you know, if you're like, Okay, well know that they've gotten enough sleep. And we don't need a snack right now, we just had a snack connection, human connection. So let's fix that loneliness, like you just said, is actually the number one way to decrease that red brain response. Because if you remember the Blue Brain, you've got partial Blue Brain online, when you're even when you're in that red brain response. And that that Blue Brain is looking for MI loved. And if you're able to connect with someone, and it doesn't have to be very long research shows it has to be even 30 seconds of connection. So a hug, can can calm that red brain or at least bring a little bit more of the blue and green brain back online.Hannah Choi 33:56I remember learning about that. Like she called it a 20-second hug in the book "Burnout". Yeah, yeah. And as one way to, like close that stress loop. And so the other day, my son had a really stressful morning before school, and, and he was really having a hard time. And I was like, You need a 20-second hug. Come here. Yeah, I was like, Mom, I don't have time for a 20-second Hug. Dude, you need it. So, I scooped him up. I'm like, Just relax into me for 20 seconds. I think we lasted maybe 10 seconds.Dr. Alison Roy 34:30I think that's funny. So two thoughts about that. One is parents always asked me but what if they're not wanting a hug in that moment, and I and I get that I've been there. I don't have teenagers yet. But I can imagine with teenagers that's particularly hard. So sometimes I say to him, I said, Do you need a hug to my own kids? And they'll say no. And sometimes I'll say, well, I need one. And that's not untrue. Actually, there's a lot of times where we're having some sort of stress response together and I could use a hug as well. And that'll Almost always loops almost always get them so. But the other thing I wanted to say about that is I taught from the book "Burnout" for several years. And I love that book. I love that. It speaks our language, right of like the brain's response to burnout. And someone came back to me and said, you know, you talked about the 20-second Hug. And my husband and I have now decided when we get an argument, we're going to stop and do a 20-second hug and then continue the argument. And she said, It works every time to do that's awesome. It's super awkward because it's, if you actually time 20 seconds, it's a long time to be so funny. I was like, That's a great story. I love it.Hannah Choi 35:41I love that. Yeah. It's funny. That's, that's, that's great advice. And I actually learned that a long time ago when my daughter was one I was at I was in a mom's group and someone in the moms' group brought an astrologist to the moms' group. And she just did like little mini readings on all of our kids. And she told me, she said, you're Yeah, it was very cool. She said, Your daughter is not going to be a hugger. But she's going to need hugs. So you're gonna have to tell her that you need a hug in order to get her to get the hugs that she needs. So I've always used that for her. Dr. Alison Roy 36:21Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And 'cause some people aren't naturally that way. Yeah.Hannah Choi 36:25Yeah. And that reminds me of the article that we talked a little bit about the last time you presented that, or in the New York Times article, where the teacher I think, asked, "Do you need to be hugged, heard or helped?" And, and I love that, and I love that she said that she finds that most people just want to be hugged. Which which shows, yeah, you do need that physical touch.Dr. Alison Roy 36:50Right? Yeah. So most people in that I think what happens when we become stressed is or when we see a loved one being stressed. So as a parent, especially I find this when our kiddos are stressed or upset or frustrated, or whatever that big powerful emotion is. It's hard for us to tolerate that distress because we love them. And we don't want to see them hurting. And also, it's upsetting to us. So we start to have reaction that we don't like, either. So it's really hard to watch that. And so what we typically end up doing, I think I talked about this is trying to fix, because our heap, that's what our human brain does, our human brains are problem solving machines. And so they like to be able to solve the problem and move on. But as we know, most problems aren't solvable. And so when we need come up against something that's not solvable, or that's uncertain, or doesn't have any answer, it does send that secondary brain red brain reaction. And so, as parents, it's hard to pull it back and go to that. Do you need a hug? Do you need to be heard? Or do you need to be helped? Because we jumped to the helped part. And a lot of the times when we're upset, we're not ready to be helped. And I think I said this too, when we were talking earlier is that men, dads, tend to go to help even quicker, like that male kind of response. I'm sorry, that's your male brain. I'm sorry. Yeah. They are the problem-solvers. And so really helping just us as parents learn. Asking that question first helps to slow things down. To give that hug to hear them out to validate validation doesn't mean you agree, you can say I'm sorry, you're sad. Sounds like you're sad, anything like that, even if you think it's ridiculous at their side, and this will be up here and that internal dialogue, right, this is crazy. I can't believe I'm validating the side of this right now. Yeah, they need to be heard. And then you can get to that problem solving piece if they're when they're ready for it and you allow those first two steps to happen. Usually, then they're on board for Okay, let's move forward. How do we do that?Hannah Choi 38:58And the easiest way to do that, I imagine is if you are regulated yourself, and yeah, accessing that your frontal lobe and your executive function skills, you need that perspective taking and cognitive flexibility, right, empathy. Dr. Alison Roy 39:13Yeah, so it's always okay to take a minute. I talked sometimes about the show "Bluey". When I talked to parents, and I don't know if you're, we're a big Bluey fan in our house andHannah Choi 39:24My kids are too old.Dr. Alison Roy 39:26Yeah, oh, that's too bad. You should watch it anyways. Um, yeah, it's totally entertaining his parents, but there's an episode where the mom and the two there's two little girls and the well, they're all dogs, but they are, you know, it's after school very clearly. And the kids are like, oh, oh, and mom's making snacks. And she's looking a little stressed and the dad comes home and she's like, I need a minute. And he's like, yep, yep, no problem. And so she goes and takes 20 minutes. And chaos ensues while she's gone, but adorable chaos. But you know, it's always okay to take that time to say, I just need a minute to be able to then come back and as long as you come back around and are fully engaged. Yeah, so, and Dan Siegel talks about that as well, in his book, Parenting From the Inside Out, he does a really great job of talking about engaged, sometimes you're ready to engage, you come home from work, you walk in the door, let's do it, I want to play Legos. And I want to get down on the floor, and I want to engage, and I'm gonna see all the things you did at school today. There are other times we come in the door. Likely, it's those times when our red brains already been activated before we come in that door. And we're just not ready to go down that path with our kids. Yep. And it's okay to say I just need 10 minutes, set a timer, and I'll be right there with you, and then just loop back around with them. And that that repair that coming back around can be just as powerful if not moreHannah Choi 40:48And such good role modeling for your kids. That it's showing them it's okay to do that. Yeah. So I haveDr. Alison Roy 40:55Impulse control. Yeah, our new society is on demand. And so have prolong that reward. It's super, super beneficial for their frontal lobe. So yeah,Hannah Choi 41:09I have a friend who has shared with me that it's, she finds it very difficult to take that pause, she, she immediately reacts, she, like immediately yells or immediately wants to fix something. And it's really difficult for her to just breathe and stop. And so do you have any recommendations for parents who might feel that way?Dr. Alison Roy 41:30Yeah, so some of us are naturally chemically made that way, well, we're just more reactive. So I would say in the moment to try to take a breath to try to remind yourself to that pause, remember hug, heard or helped, right. So just in that moment, trying to remember those steps. So that's something there's also a lot to regulating when we're not dysregulated. So working in regulation to try to ease off that irritability when we're not in the moment. So that's always something I try to recommend to parents get that regular, regular diet of regulatory moments, and they don't need to, I don't need to be big. And I think that was something I needed to hear, especially during the pandemic is, you know, like I said, three to five minutes, if it's a regulatory activity that you enjoy, whether it's taking a walk, or getting some fresh air, getting sunshine, or listening to a good song or podcast, you don't need a ton of time. And it can be less 30 seconds or less if you're just doing that physical connection. So just trying to weave those in throughout your day, to kind of keep that irritability level a little bit lowerHannah Choi 42:37The baseline, get the baseline lower. Dr. Alison Roy 42:39The baseline, right? We want to keep in that tolerance there. And then the last thing I will say is, it's okay, if that's your natural personality, or if you're in it right now, you know, meaning like maybe all three of your kids are under the age of five, and you're spending a lot of time in that zone. Because what can be even more powerful is if you have that snap reaction, the moment is being able to come back around and say, I'm sorry, I wasn't my best self. And here's how we how can we do better next time and making it about the week? It's about the pair? It's about that dyad a parent child, how can we do better next time. And that is, it's so so powerful, the repair. And it's also a really good role modeling of accountability, I just read a really good article about, we want our kids to be accountable. And accountability isn't something that's naturally kind of within us fully, we have to have that modeled and demonstrated for us. And the parent apology is so powerful and modeling accountability. And then the last piece, I'll say about that, yeah, that was I was cool article for me to read. I thought, Oh, this is really cool that we want our kids to be accountable, we have to demonstrate that. And the last thing I'll say about that is is changing the way we talk about apologies and this is something I've been pretty. Ever since learning this I've really helped my kids kind of understand this and as a family understand this is when we apologize, it's we don't have to say it's okay. There are times when it's okay, and we can say that's okay. There are times when it's not okay. And so it's better to say thank you for apologizing, because it makes it more about the weight of the apology and appreciating that than it is about the action that causedHannah Choi 44:22Right, right, right. Something that I remember from your presentation, during the pandemic, you talked about how repetition like repetitive behaviors can be really calming to the brain. Can you share a little bit about that?Dr. Alison Roy 44:40Yeah, so rep got repetitive, rhythmic? Any sort of anything like that? Can be it resonates with that bottom part, that red part of our brain, and that's something that we are wired for as humans from the get go. So when we're in utero, we're being regulated by our moms, right, there's nothing that we can do to regulate ourselves. So we're being regulated by, certainly her body temperature, her way of feeding us, but also her body movements, or rhythmic movements and her heartbeat. And so we are pre programmed to have that resonate with the most primal part of our brain. And so the brain scans that they've done just show when we do these repetitive rhythmic movements, how it engages and lights up that bottom part of the brain shows us or demonstrates to us that that's really that's the language of that part of the brain. So if we want to regulate that part of the brain, so that's why swinging. So you see kids that are, you know, have those swings at school. So swinging, walking or running is so helpful. So they'll actually there's been studies done where kids with speech and language delays, they'll put them on a treadmill and have them do their like activities on a treadmill and how much more productive they are, because it's just regulating that caught in that red part of their brain and the left side. Yeah, so really cool. Drumming. So anything like that, if you can think of rhythmic and repetitive, anything, those two words are really, really regulating coloring. So even this motion of coloring, these things really do work. So again, giving science so what we're told, right, there's like these coloring books, these adult coloring books and yoga and walking and running. And, you know, why are why are these things helpful? Well, there's a real reason why they're helpful. Because it does resonate with that part of our brain.Hannah Choi 46:44Right? I love that. It really, truly does. And I've said this before, so many times on the podcast and all of my clients, I'm sure I'm like, yeah, yeah. But to learn to learn about what's going on in your brain, just helps so much understand, like, why I'm so like, why am I supposed to do these things to help myself? And just knowing that why really, for me, always motivates, motivates my, like, just motivates me in doing those things. Yeah, yeah. So as soon as like, as soon as I learned about how it never even occurred to me, but like, you have to practice your, whatever self regulation strategies you use, you have to practice them so that so that they're easily accessible when it's time to use them. And yes, and it didn't occur to me like, well, we practice walking, so that walking is easily accessible to us when we need it. Or we practice anything like anything that we need to come easily to us. So learning that about, about whatever self regulation strategies that we need to use, yeah, let's practice them. So I just like drive around doing that square breathing. And, yes, and then it just comes so much more easily to me, when I'm in a moment where I'm like, Okay, well, yeah, you know how to do this.Dr. Alison Roy 48:07I always say, practice and have any tools that you might need to regulate, like, I'll go back to the coloring have a coloring book and crayons. Yeah, whatever it is in a designated place, because you go, last thing you want to do is be stressed when you're trying to find your regulation.Hannah Choi 48:20Where's my coloring book? Dr. Alison Roy 48:22Yeah, that is and you talk about practice square breathing, just to go and we'll do one more geeky brain thing but neuronal development is, you know, it's a, if you don't use it, you lose it. So if you don't use parts of your brain that actually will, your brain will prune that area of your brain. And so we definitely want the brain pruning what we want it to prune and not pruning other things. But neurons, we say "neurons that fire together wire together". So the more we use in neuronal pathway, like square breathing, the more wired it becomes, the more quick and accessible. This is why we practice tying our shoes, we practice riding our bikes, you know, as kids, there's lots of examples of that neuronal development of creating that pathway that's quite clunky at first, and then the more you use, it becomes lightning fast, because it's well oiled machine. And so you want that to be true for your coping skills or regulatory skills as well.Hannah Choi 49:18Yeah, I give both my kids play instruments and I, they're so tired of me hearing hearing me talk about executive function skills, and the brain. But I do remind them like, you, when you first got that piece of music, you looked at it and thought, Oh, my brain, like I don't know how to do this. And now you can play it without even looking at the music. And that's such a good evidence that that it is yes, we do get better when we practice and it's so worth it to put effort into the things that we do.Dr. Alison Roy 49:47Yeah, music is part of that rhythmic repetitive. That's why so many of us are regulated by music of some kind.Hannah Choi 49:55Yeah, yeah. So you have anything else that you that's that you want to share with parents who might be struggling in the moment.Dr. Alison Roy 50:05Yeah, I think the last thing I'll end on and this is just something I love talking about, because for me as a parent, I think it changed. The way I parented when I learned this is all about temper tantrums, and where they fit into this profile. So I think I mentioned temper tantrums are red brain reactions. So when we're having one of those temper tantrums, our kids are having one of those temper tantrums because we have we have them as adults. We don't ever stop having temper tantrums. That's a big myth, no, we always have them. But it does look different depending on how much frontal lobe we have. But when our kids are having those temper tantrums, when I was an early parent I was always told to ignore leave them alone, have them leave the room. And what that actually does is create this secondary panic response. Because in that moment, our red brain is looking for hugged helped or you know, heard. And so I always give the example of the first time I learned this about a temper tantrum not to ignore but to actually engage. I tried it. I called I called my colleague after this is all over and said, Oh my gosh, it actually worked does not magic, it actually worked. So my youngest, he was about two, maybe two and a half at the time. And his name is Finnegan and he is fiery Finnegan Riley, and he fits that name perfectly as a fiery Irishman. And he wanted a popsicle. I was like, Oh yeah, sure, buddy. Go ahead and and went into the freezer, and we only had orange popsicles and full blown meltdown. And in that moment, his brain viewed that as a life or death situation. I'm laughing because as adults are like this, isn't it? Yeah. So I was I saying to myself and my in my head, right internal dialogue. This is crazy. But on the outside, I said, Oh, buddy, I know it's so hard when you only only have orange popsicles and you want a red one. I'm sorry, you're sad? How can we help this to go better, I got down, I just sat down on the floor next to him. And just kept kind of saying those things over and over again. And he eventually crawled in my lap and was he was still sad. But was able to then calm down. And you know, when I before I did it, I thought isn't that giving in to the temper tantrum? reinforcing it right? This is what we're always afraid of as parents is reinforcing it. And no giving into the temper tantrum or reinforcing it would be driving to the store and getting that red popsicle. In that moment. All I was doing was giving his red brain what it needed to be able to get that logic and rational thought what little he hasDr. Alison Roy 50:26Whatever he hasDr. Alison Roy 52:40To come back online. Oh, okay, I'm, I'm this is, you know, there's still popsicles just not the color I wanted. And how can we move forward? So yeah, it's not perfect. It's not a perfect science. But, you know, learning that I think, to me really changed the way I parented.Hannah Choi 53:05Yeah. And it is so hard to because we're also probably pretty, if we're not, maybe we're just in our emotional brain, but we're probably also a little bit down in our red brain. So it's hard. We have to, like, get ourselves out of there to be able to do that instead of just yelling it or just slamming the door and leaving the room. Right? Yes.Dr. Alison Roy 53:26Yeah. And I found that reaction to be calming for me to to be like deep breath. Yeah, how crazy this is. Yeah, get on the floor. Right. Right. It's really hard. Yes. You saying it to yourself to man, this is really hard.Hannah Choi 53:41I'm having a hard time. I'm having a hard time. Yeah, yeah. I remember putting my daughter in. She wouldn't she was tantruming for so long. And I was just losing my mind. So I ended up filling the tub. And I put her in clothed in the tub. And she stoppedDr. Alison Roy 54:02Yeah, cuz her amygdala needed something temperature wise. Yep. Yeah,Hannah Choi 54:07yeah. Yeah.Dr. Alison Roy 54:09Do the best. We do the best that we can we doHannah Choi 54:12That's right. That is right. Sometimes they go in the tub clothed. At least I made the water warm. At least I didn't wasn't like you're getting cold.Hannah Choi 54:26All right. Well, thank you so much, Alison. This is just I mean, we know both of us could probably keep talking about this all day. But forever as I Yeah, people probably have places to go or they have like regulating activities to go practice. Dr. Alison Roy 54:41I hope so. Go practice your regulating activities! Hannah Choi 54:44I hope so too. And can you share with our listeners where they can find you and maybe some of your favorite resources that people might want to check us?Dr. Alison Roy 54:53Of course I have a website that I'm super terrible at updating but it does have some good resources on it. Hi, it's Dr. Alison roy.com. All one word, Dr.AlisonRoy.com. And then within that website, there's lots of different links to stuff including my YouTube channel, which is where I save a lot of the good resources that I find is even a playlist for parents and educators. So check that out. Certainly. And, yeah, that's, that's hopefully some resources for you.Hannah Choi 55:25Great, thank you so much. And that's our show for today. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to listen, I hope you learned something new about your brain. And if you weren't a brain nerd like me and Alison already, hopefully, we've convinced you to join the official club. We'd love to have you. Be sure to check out the show notes for links to some of the topics we cover today. And you can find the links to the slides that Alison referenced. If you know anyone who might be feeling the stress of parenting. Wait a second, I think that's all parents. Please share this episode with them. You can reach out to me at podcast at beyond booksmart.com I would love to hear from you. Please subscribe to focus forward on Apple and Google podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcasts. If you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify give us a boost by giving us that five star rating. 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