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APEX Express is a weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On this episode, host Miata Tan is joined by guests from the South Asian Coalition, an emergent national network committed to collective liberation and solidarity. Together they explore what it means to build South Asian political power in this moment—and how cross-movement solidarity can shape a more just, multiracial future. Learn more about the South Asian Coalition Website | Instagram | Policy Priorities   The South Asian Coalition was convened in October 2024 by: Manavi, Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, Muslims for Just Futures, and Raksha.   Transcript ​[00:00:00]  Miata Tan : Hello and welcome. You are tuning in to APEX Express, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I'm your host, Miata Tan. Tonight, we're focusing on South Asian communities and the organizers working to build political power. South Asians are one of the fastest-growing racial groups in the United States, Over six million people [00:01:00] and roughly a quarter of the Asian American population. South Asian is used as a broad umbrella term for people with roots in countries such as India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka, and sometimes Afghanistan. Though exact definitions can vary across communities and organizations. And as we'll talk about tonight, within the South Asian diaspora who call the United States home, you have a mix of nationalities, religion, immigration status, and more. Tonight, I'm joined by four people working to address the issues impacting South Asian communities in the US and beyond. At a time when questions of belonging, safety, and political power continue to shape immigrant communities across the country, South Asian organizers are building new forms of solidarity while also grappling with the diversity and complexity within their own communities. The first voice you'll hear is Sabiha Basrai Sabiha is the daughter of Muslim Gujarati immigrants and has been [00:02:00] organizing with the Bay Area-based Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA, since 2009. Here's Sabiha helping us to understand how South Asian political organizing has evolved in the United States, especially in the post 9/11 era Sabiha Basrai: Thanks for the opportunity to do some reflection this year marks the 25th anniversary of 9/11, which was a real a political flashpoint that absolutely changed my life because I was a 19-year-old college student trying to figure out a lot of things about how the world works and my place in it, and my own identity and the multiple identities I hold. Uh, and also where my responsibilities lied in solidarity, not just with other Muslims who were being targeted, but our broad immigrant diasporas and allies, uh, who have experienced discrimination in different forms from the state. So thinking about the ways in which- organizing happened in the, months and years after 9/11 to support immigrant [00:03:00] rights that was really a time in which new projects formed, um, or existing projects kind of found a new focus. ASATA as an organizing project, as a group of volunteers, has both done things like shown up to support folks being called up for the NCR's Special Registration Program and also participate in direct action protests in solidarity against the war, and has continued to be part of coalitional work regionally in the Bay Area. And, you know, more recently, uh, when we think about the ways in which our communities under, are under increased pressure with the Trump administration's immigrant policies, there have been also opportunities to build more relationships and make sure that as we advocate for our community's rights, we're doing so in formation with others, not just focusing on one particular bad piece of legislation, but connecting that to a larger story, to really build towards liberation for all of us. I'll [00:04:00] just add, too that those relationships that were kind of seeded and invested in in that moment of crisis and anxiety and fear have endured in many ways to now. The fact that that very ecosystem is actually growing in this moment is a testament to the relationships that were built in those days. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha Basrai grounding us in the history of South Asian political organizing in the US. As she mentioned, for many South Asians, 9/11 marked a particularly mobilizing moment, one that helped our communities organized and built solidarity. To help us better understand how that moment influenced the evolution of progressive South Asian activism, we now turn to Deepa Iyer, South Asian American writer, strategist, and lawyer. Deepa leads projects on solidarity and social movements at Building Movement Project and brings more than 25 years of experience in Asian American organizing and advocacy Deepa Iyer: I think that I would say that there [00:05:00] were, looking back, a couple of trends and themes that we can pull out from that time. one is that there was definitely a shift in the general consciousness of South Asian communities about our place in American society, our understanding of racism, Islamophobia, and also the role of the state. And so we had a situation where both hate violence and state violence were actually being endured by South Asian, Muslim, Arab communities. And so I think that there was a shift in the ways in which our communities began to think about ourselves in the United States. A second piece is the growth of a field, an ecosystem of South Asian organizations in the wake of the attacks and the global war on terror. So we began to see a lot of groups that were actually formed or becoming more staffed up in the weeks and months after 9/11. For example, the Sikh [00:06:00] Coalition was actually birthed the evening of the attacks, and an organization that I was close to, SALT, was also emerging and forming in the months after 9/11 as well. So we began to see that a, a field was growing. And the third, sort of theme I would point out that Sabihah alluded to is this sense of solidarity, that instead of sort of being siloed as, you know, South Asians working within just our communities and just talking about certain specific issues, there was real sense that we needed to collaborate and build bridges with Arab, Muslim, Sikh, and, Black communities in the United States to understand the trajectory of racism and xenophobia, and how they were all kind of coming together in the weeks after 9/11. Those three themes and trends are what, when I look back, I see coming up over and over again in our messaging and in our advocacy. Miata Tan : [00:07:00] That was Deepa Iyer, as you heard from Deepa, collaboration across movements was essential in helping South Asian communities to understand and respond to the waves of xenophobia in the wake of 9/11. Now we turn to Rajiv Narayan and Farah Mahesri, who lead national policy work at the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA together they launched and now co-lead ASATA's new political base building group, ASATA Power. Rajiv begins by reflecting on what South Asian communities are facing today and what has and hasn't changed since 9/11. Rajiv Narayan: I think unfortunately many of the challenges present in the early 2000s remain today. They take new form. Some have evolved and transformed, but they were ex- existed in, in much the same form following 9/11. One of the, the instances in which I, I learned about that is at the recent South Asian Coalition convening where we did this exercise in mapping a number of [00:08:00] historical and present day events, as well as a future vision of things that are important to our organizations and to our movements. And something that we reflected on together in the convening is that a number of these attacks on our communities have waxed and waned, uh, at different periods in time, dating back to the, the 1960s and truly at, even at the beginning of, you know, the 19th century and the late 18th century. And so, to answer your question specifically, in the early 2000s, like Deepa and Sabihah mentioned, we've dealt with, uh, an incredible expression of Islamophobia of, uh, anti-Brown and anti-Black racism and hate speech. There was a, in, in general a skepticism and unwelcoming of South Asian communities. And unfortunately with the current federal administration and political discourse in our country, uh, a number of those same themes are relevant today and take on similar forms, whether they're in [00:09:00] response to what the federal administration is doing in countries like Iran or previous administrations have done in Afghanistan or Pakistan. I think all of those events underscore all the more so that it's important for our organizations to, organize together, much as we did in the early 2000s, to address these harms, to remember what they look like at previous stages of history, and to fight to prevent them again from happening in the future. Miata Tan : Farah, perhaps you could speak a bit to the organizing. What did that look like, a few years ago, and what does that look like today? How has that changed? Farah Mahersi: Rajiv and I started ASATA Power a couple of years ago specifically to be able to look forward to practice radical imagination, and fight for not just protection of our communities, which we will always do. That is built into our DNAs. It's what we know. It's how we move. And also to fight for things that we want, to build the world that we want to live in so that we're not constantly caught in these cycles. And as we're doing [00:10:00] that, we are learning a lot about how organizing is happening today, the BLM movement, Black Lives Matter, and incredible street power, but also that movement's ability to change our national discourse and change what is baseline, what we should be demanding, and how we are visioning a future that is built on policies governance and hard material changes in our lives is profound. beyond that, also the Palestine solidarity movement over the last couple of years has rewritten every book about organizing. And so I think that it is an interesting moment of both a little bit of sadness, to be honest, that we are still fighting some of these same fights and we are still in some of these same dynamics that we have been for 25 years, and the profound opportunity that we have to build power and to look forward, and I think that is, more true in the Bay Area than it is almost everywhere else. Uh, because of what our workforce looks like, because of the sheer [00:11:00] amount of wealth that is accumulated in this little corner of our world, and also when you look around at the political power and people who hold political power or are running for political power and elected office around the Bay Area, you could really start to see not just how South Asians are increasingly politicized and increasingly looking to build electoral and political power, but also s- very specifically progressive political power. And so when you look to Congress now, The progressive caucus is full of South Asian progressives who are leading the charge, who are doing some of this critical work, that's part of our organizing strategy, is to be part of those conversations and to continue to push and to continue to, again, advocate for policies and changes at that big level to make the future we want possible. Miata Tan : I love that. Coming together to dream and really fight. Rajiv, you are leading this work at the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action. Can you speak more to why the Bay Area [00:12:00] is a, like, a distinct microcosm in this progressive South Asian movement? Rajiv Narayan: Of course. So Farah and I, we both work together at ASATA Power, and ASATA is sort of political power building project within the auspices of, uh, ASATA which has been operating in the Bay Area for more than 25 years now. I think what makes the Bay Area a microcosm of the South Asian diaspora is a tremendous amount of diversity and, uh, a set of interrelated intersectional challenges. So you have, uh, folks of South Asian descent with all different immigration histories. So I'm, for example, a person, um, who has birthright citizenship in the United States as I was born here. But there are folks who immigrated here, like my parents and had to attain their citizenship uh, through the, the US legal system, and folks beyond that who are refugees or asylees or are undocumented due to a variety of political and social and economic pressures. And so we all coexist in this same space across an economic gradient. So there are folks [00:13:00] who are very well compensated in the tech sectors and healthcare sectors sometimes, uh, characterized, uh, as part of a, a model minority myth, um, as representatives of the South Asian diaspora, um, within the San Francisco Bay Area and the United States broadly. And then there are whole variety of South Asians who are working in less well-compensated, often quite exploited industries. For example, in, care industries as people who are providing childcare or senior care services, people who are working in the restaurant industry folks who are lesser compensated within healthcare as well as in tech industries and other ways. Of course, those economic positions interact with the political and legal system. So for example, even if a person might be, um, well-compensated in a tech job in the Bay Area, um, which they attained by way of an H-1B visa that person might be subject to exploitative labor conditions based on the, uh, the legal configuration of how H-1B [00:14:00] visas are treated. For example, that you depend on your employer for your immigration status in this country, which changes the worker-employer relationship in a way that makes it very difficult to identify workplace abuses. beyond that, we also have a diverse range of South Asians across the age gradient. So we have folks who are quite young, who are in Gen Z, and are entering politics in a completely different way than somebody like myself or Deepa entered politics at, in earlier in, in our lives and experience it today, which provides an opportunity for us to learn from earlier generations and to also share lessons from our political experience. So like with many things, the Bay Area has it all, the good and the bad, and ASATA and ASATA Power work within that, that space to identify opportunities for solidarity. Miata Tan : That was Rajiv Narayan and Farah Mehestri. Through their work with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA, Rajiv and Farah are helping to build South Asian political power here in the Bay Area and [00:15:00] nationwide. The ASATA team and all four of our guests tonight are connected through the South Asian Coalition, a network of local and national organizations focused on advancing policy issues affecting South Asian communities and building shared spaces for strategy and collaboration. To better understand this evolving movement of progressive South Asian action, let's return to Deepa Iyer, who shares how and why this coalition came together Deepa Iyer: Yeah. I really appreciate Rajiv bringing up, um, how- what is happening in the Bay Area is part of a larger movement. And what I would say about this ecosystem, this field that I talked about earlier, and I've been able to understand this through the course of the work I've done, but also a book I've written about post 9/11 America, is that so much happens on the coasts, and we often forget that there are organizations and are communities that are really [00:16:00] growing in other parts of the country, right? You know, I grew up in Kentucky, um, and there are places like Kentucky and Indiana where you are seeing, um, more South Asians settle and build their lives there. So one of the things that I think has been important in thinking about as we come up on this 25th anniversary of 9/11 is how our coalition of South Asian groups, how that field has grown with these additional organizations, in geographic areas that are different, as well as the ways in which folks are organizing. So now we've got, for example, groups that are working with Bhutanese refugees or Nepali-speaking community members, or groups that are organizing around the exploitation of community members based on caste. These are, um, really important movement interventions and organizations that are growing. one of the key aspects of network infrastructure is the ability to connect with each other, [00:17:00] not to flatten our experiences and say we're all the same, but to actually find some threads of commonality in our shared struggle and our experiences, and to also know that together as collectives, as Farah mentioned earlier, we can actually build the futures that we wanna see. One of the really, I think, inspiring pieces of coalition building that I've been fortunate to work with and support along with, um, everyone here is the South Asian Coalition, which is this emergent network of now 35 organizations around the country, and this coalition really seeks to build relationships and strengthen relationships, engage in peer learning and skills building, make it clear that there are certain policy issues that we need to uplift and to advocate around, and to create opportunities and pathways for solidarity with larger movements. This coalition and the infrastructure that it's been [00:18:00] creating is a way for us to look at our ecosystem of South Asian organizing in this moment, and to really see what happens when we galvanize our power collectively. Miata Tan : and Deepa, can you share a bit about the various co-conveners that make up the South Asian Coalition?  Deepa Iyer: So the South Asian Coalition, um, as we've mentioned, is this emergent network of groups that address various issues but are aligned around shared values. And the groups that really came together to co-convene it include Asad the Power, as well as Muslims for Just Futures, Raksha, which is an organization in the South, and Manavi, which is based in New Jersey. And these four organizations really had the vision to set up the structure for the coalition. the organization where I work at, Building Movement Project, supports the coalition through infrastructure, so providing facilitation, providing resources, policy analysis, and creating the container to support [00:19:00] movements in that way, which is so critical for coalitions. Miata Tan : That was Deepa Iyer a South Asian American writer, strategist, and lawyer. after the break, we'll hear more from organizers and advocates working to address issues shaping South Asian communities today. Stay with us  [00:20:00] [00:21:00] that was “Phenom” by Thao and the Get Down Stay Down. You are tuned into [00:22:00] APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I'm your host, Miada Tan. Tonight, I'm joined by four people who are working to address the issues impacting South Asian communities in the US and beyond. Back in March, organizers, advocates, and community leaders from across the country gathered in Washington, DC, for a national convening focused on the challenges and possibilities facing South Asian communities today. Here's Sabiha Basrai with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA. She speaks about how this coalition of progressive South Asian groups formed and why this moment called for it. Sabiha Basrai: So this new emergent South Asian Coalition had its first convening in Washington, DC in March, and this was, the culmination of, a little over a year of monthly Zoom calls which started because [00:23:00] we knew we were on the verge of a Trump re-election. Uh, we knew that there was this ecosystem of South Asian activism and organizing across the country. Some of us knew each other from previous collaborations, but some of us didn't. New organizations were forming, and there was this recognition that we need each other in order to face what's coming, and we are stronger together. And we know that being South Asian is not a monolith, uh, that we deal with within our own communities based on labor exploitation, caste discrimination, anti-Muslim violence. And when we talk to each other, when we connect, we give ourselves the best chance at being able to move through those pieces of pain and build towards a future where we can all feel a sense of belonging, feel represented, and an agency in shaping that future together. So what started with a few conversations with a few folks, grew steadily [00:24:00] and, um, and through some intentional work to, to kind of invite each other in, which is of course an ongoing process, we were able to unite under this umbrella called the South Asian Coalition. Uh, we committed to some shared political points of unity and kind of community agreements to really set some expectations with one another on how we could move well in formation. And, made sure we had pathways to share information with each other so that someone like me working in Oakland could understand what, uh, someone working in Texas or in Georgia was facing, what local policy positions they were needing to, to navigate. And, uh, we could give each other advice, give each other moral support, and also sharpen our political understandings. So, uh, these kind of, uh, regular check-ins was one way of just understanding what we were all facing and feeling connected. But, actually being together in person was remarkable. I cannot overstate how much of a difference it makes to be able to share [00:25:00] space and see each other as whole people and not just representatives of a particular organization or a particular issue area, and, have those in-between moments where we actually build, build some friendships. One of the things that was also really important for me to understand when we met together was just how important that intergenerational work is. we had folks in the room who were, in their 50s and 60s who had been doing this work for decades. And we had folks in the room who were in their 20s for whom 9/11 was, something that happened in history. The conversations that were happening across generations informed the way that we think about ourselves as a coalition and helped me also to let go of some of the constraints that, kept my imagination small about what we were capable of. I was really grateful that so many people attended and chose to prioritize that work. It's hard, you know, to take a pause from The daily work to leave, fly to [00:26:00] DC take those risks as well because for many of us, uh, going through TSA is no small thing. There's a lot of harassment and racism that still permeate, you know, these institutions. So not to minimize just the effort that ta- it takes to convene and really make the most of our time together. One of the things that we did while we were in DC together was hold a congressional briefing to really, uh, amplify and share the issues that were coming up for our communities that folks were already working very hard on. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha Basrai with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA. Now let's return to Rajiv Narayan, another member of the ASATA team and co-lead of their political action group, ASATA Power. Rajiv will take you inside the congressional briefing that Sabiha mentioned and how South Asian organizers from across the country shared the issues shaping their communities and what support is needed now Rajiv Narayan: We in ASATA Power worked in [00:27:00] collaboration with a number of the organizations in the South Asian coalition, to put together a congressional briefing on the issue of South Asians and immigration in the heart of Washington, DC, in the halls of Congress in Capitol Hill. And we were fortunate to do so in collaboration with Representatives Pramila Jayapal and Grace Meng. we had a number of, speakers representing, different perspectives and political struggles within the South Asian, uh, space in the United States, especially as it relates to immigration. So, for example, we had representatives from the Dalit Solidarity Forum talking about the plight of oppressed workers, caste-oppressed workers, in New Jersey working in a Hindu temple.  ​ Dr Roja Sunganthy-Singh – Dalit: I stand here as a Dalit, formerly known as an untouchable in India's caste system, speaking for over two hundred skilled Dalit artisans who were brought to the US from India to build the largest Hindu temple in New Jersey. In their words, ” We are the Indian stone workers of America, workers [00:28:00] rescued by the FBI in twenty twenty-one from forced labor conditions constructing the BAPS temple in New Jersey. we were brought to the US on R one visas and compelled to perform construction labor for over eighty-seven hours a week and paid just a dollar twenty an hour. Rajiv Narayan: We heard from, um, the executive director of the Sikh Coalition talking about Sikh truck drivers and religious workers and their experience under the federal regime's, uh, rule-making efforts. Harman Singh – Sikh Coalition: Uh, Punjabi Sikhs began entering the US trucking industry in large numbers during the nineteen eighties, and Sikh truck drivers and business owners have played a critical role in addressing driver shortages over the past several years. Unfortunately, Sikhs in this critical industry have become the subject of harmful rhetoric and policy from this current administration. These drivers are being excluded solely because of their specific immigration status and regardless of their driving histories, skills, knowledge, or English proficiency.  Rajiv Narayan: We heard from, the executive director of Asian Refugees United, who [00:29:00] spoke about the experience of Bhutanese refugees who have been rendered stateless by the current administration's, deportation efforts Robin Gurung – ARU: Because of the ethnic cleansing campaign of Bhutan government, more than hundred thousand Bhutanese citizens were forced to flee the country. For twenty years, I lived in a refugee camp in Nepal. In 2008, the government of this country came to rescue us. We were promised safety and security. But last year, that promise was broken. As of March 2025, over seventy of our community members are deported to Bhutan, the same country that persecuted us and made us refugees. These community members are kidnapped from their homes and jobs. They have been taken from their routine ICE check-ins. We know due process was not followed. Rajiv Narayan: We also heard from the executive director of Raksha, a domestic violence organization based in the Southern United States that has played an instrumental role in supporting South Asians who have been the victims [00:30:00] and who are now survivors of domestic and intimate partner violence, about the needs for supporting these kinds of organizations, with federal dollars and through the grant-making systems conditions. Aparna Bhattacharyya – Raksha: For thirty years, we have supported community members in navigating interpersonal violence, but also waves of racism and policy backlash.  South Asian and Indo-Caribbean survivors need safe places to turn, safe places that speak their language, understand their unique immigration and cultural needs. Raksha recently had $700,000 in OVC grants terminated by DOGE. additionally, we are still waiting for OVW sexual assault cultural funds for five months, where we have gotten no determination of whether we're getting that funding or not. Five months. Rajiv Narayan: We also heard from, the director of the South Asian American Justice Collaborative, which is currently, before the US Supreme Court in the birthright citizenship case, and [00:31:00] filed this foundational amicus brief detailing the story of South Asians in the United States going back to the 1600s. Klapana Peddibhotla – SAAJCO: Our brief pushes back against this notion that we are forever foreign.  South Asians actually arrived on these shores in the sixteen hundreds, and by the seventeen hundreds, South Asians were already asserting their rights here. In an Afghan immigrant actually fought in the Civil War in the Union Army. by the late nineteenth century, the largest farming group in Central California was formed by Punjabis. Today, South Asians are one of the largest immigrant populations in the US, but many families are caught in immigration backlogs that last for decades and make them vulnerable to the President's executive order restricting birthright citizenship. Rajiv Narayan: Across all of these speakers, you know, the, the, the message became very clear that we have so many different struggles, but they're all [00:32:00] united by a sense of solidarity for each other's political experiences under the same system of exploitation and oppression, and that there, there's so much that Congress can do in this moment to support the South Asian diaspora in the United States and, and even abroad in some cases. for ASATA Power's part, we, had the opportunity to put together over the course of the last year a policy brief on undocumented South Asians, and it was during the congressional briefing that we shared some pretty startling statistics that we, collected and collated from a number of public sources. And so what we were able to identify for the room is that there are about eight hundred thousand to nine hundred thousand undocumented South Asians in the United States, and because there are only six point five million South Asians in the US, both those who are undocumented and those who have birthright citizenship or are otherwise naturalized, refugees, asylees, and, and everyone in between. Of those six point five million South Asians One in eight of [00:33:00] them is undocumented, which is shocking and not something that somebody would understand at the outset given these problematic narratives like the model minority myth and whatever you see these days on X or Twitter about South Asian immigrants. So it's important for us not only to, to set the narrative straight and to identify both the diversity and opportunity for solidarity across our struggles, but to do so in the halls of power and to speak that truth to power directly. Miata Tan : That's Rajiv with ASATA Power reflecting on a recent congressional briefing in Washington, DC he helped to organize alongside other progressive South Asian leaders, organizers, and activists. Here's a snippet of Rajiv's opening remarks at the briefing Rajiv Narayan: I want to draw your attention to the slide behind me, they'll show a couple of images of South Asian community members who've been impacted recently by the horrific policies and practices of the federal administration. These members include Sheraz Fatehali Sachwani, a forty-eight-year-old citizen of Pakistan who died in ICE [00:34:00] detention last December. They include seventy-three-year-old Harjit Kaur, who was arrested during a routine ICE check-in, separated from her family, and deported to India without notice. I should say, I grew up seeing Harjit Kaur behind the counter at Sari Palace in Berkeley. She would help my mom try on saris. Her home was here. Her community was here. You know, these are just some of the names and stories of community members who have been affected by immigration policy as of late, and we hope that you will keep them in mind as you hear from our speakers today. There are many more we were not able to picture or name, but their stories are just as important. We'll be making many asks over the course of today's briefing. Some of those include the following: Congress should not increase funding for ICE or Border Patrol, including providing funds for detention facilities, especially in this funding moment. We have to remember that ICE is not a long-standing American institution. It was created in two thousand and two, recently, as part of the Homeland Security Act following nine [00:35:00] eleven. Miata Tan : That was Rajiv Narayan with ASATA Power speaking at a recent congressional briefing in Washington, DC. The briefing was part of a larger national convening organized by the South Asian Coalition, bringing together progressive South Asian groups from across the country. Now let's return to Deepa Iyer, who leads projects on solidarity and social movements at Building Movement Project here's Deepa reflecting on her takeaways from the congressional briefing Deepa Iyer: I think that there were so many pieces in that briefing that maybe people didn't know about that organizations are struggling with, and part of it is that, um, our communities, and Sabihah said this earlier, are not a monolith, right? And there are so many different ways in which we are experiencing what is happening right now in the United States, the fractures and the fissures that we're seeing. Rajiv spoke so well about the community needs and issues. One thing I'll lift up is actually the impact on nonprofit [00:36:00] organizations. Several of the groups that were, uh, speaking at the briefing noted how the attacks on nonprofits that are specifically working on issues like immigration in terms of losing federal funding and grants, being forced to certify that they are not addressing issues work that deal with undocumented immigrants, as well as the ways in which, um, nonprofit organizations are being, in some ways, seen as doing risky and un-American work. there is the, the exploitation of domestic terrorism as a frame that is being used right now to target certain nonprofit organizations. This is something that I think is not necessarily known to many people in terms of the ways in which national security, immigration issues are also affecting the nonprofit sector as a whole. And where I work at the Building Movement Project, we really look at the nonprofit sector and the health of the nonprofit sector, and we're [00:37:00] seeing that these types of external threats, the spotlight on organizations that are on the front lines, including South Asian groups, um, Muslim groups, Palestinian groups, that are working with, um, immigrant communities, queer and trans community members that are providing- Vital language access, service provision, community safety are really under threat right now, and this includes many of the organizations that were present at the, coalition's convening. So that's something that I also wanna lift up, that in addition to our communities who are facing the impact of the current moment in really acute ways, our nonprofit sector and our organizations are also dealing with a range of constraints and threats and difficulties. So that is one thing that came up over and over again. Miata Tan : That was Deepa Iyer with the Building Movement Project, highlighting the pressures facing the nonprofit sector right now, [00:38:00] especially as it relates to South Asian organizers, advocates, and communities. Let's return to Farah Mahesri with ASATA Pawa.  Farah Mahersi: One of the other things that I am very proud of for this congressional briefing that we did was that it was us telling our own stories and us presenting our own policy recommendations. There was no need to have, like, an expert come in and talk on behalf of our communities or try to represent our communities. We were the experts in the room, and we were really recognized and seen as that. As Rajiv mentioned, you know, there, the room was packed with Hill staffers and congressional staffers who were taking diligent notes as we spoke our truths Miata Tan : That was Farah Mahesri with ASATA Pawa reflecting on the recent congressional briefing she helped to organize, one that brought greater visibility to the experiences of South Asian immigrants. You'll hear more on how South Asian activists, organizers, and community groups [00:39:00] are mobilizing after this. Stay with us ​ Miata Tan : [00:40:00] [00:41:00] [00:42:00] That was Lion on the Hunt by Thao and the Get Down Stay Down. You are tuned into APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. I'm your host, Miata Tan. Tonight, we're talking about South Asian organizing in the United States and how community leaders are responding to immigration challenges, political representation, and the shifting landscape of civil rights back in March, organizers and advocates from across the country gathered in Washington, DC for a national convening focused on the challenges and possibilities facing South Asian communities today. Here's Rajiv Narayan with the Alliance of [00:43:00] South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA, reflecting on the importance of honoring both the diversity of the South Asian diaspora and the shared struggle that connects these communities Rajiv Narayan: Something I appreciate about, your work, Miata, at APEX Express, is to highlight both that diversity of the South Asian diaspora and the many struggles and experiences that unite our political experiences and our commitment to social justice. It, it used to be, and in, in some places it still is the case, that folks will use an over-broad group to represent all of the South Asian diaspora. For example, talking about all Brown people as Indian or Desi or to, to collapse all the differences in our community. And part of the power of the congressional briefing is that we are able to show that what it means to be South Asian is at once an incredibly diverse expression and at the same time a collective expression of solidarity. We can do two of these things at the same time. We can recognize our differences and fight for each other. One of my [00:44:00] favorite takeaways that I, I heard from Deepa at the briefing is that there are some staffers that came up to her and said, “I've never heard my story, my experience, my political struggles represented in a panel in this building in front of other congressional staffers.” And that's something that we can do, and we should do more of. There are so many ways in which we can tell the stories and highlight the campaigns of folks from different parts of the South Asian diaspora who are all fighting for a better life for all of us. Miata Tan : That was Rajiv Narayan with ASATA, in the recent congressional briefing that Rajiv helped to organize through the South Asian Coalition, organizers also pointed toward the future of South Asian organizing in the United States and the role of a new generation shaping it. back to Deepa Iyer with Building Movement Project. Here, Deepa Iyer: Some of the young folks that are entering or working at nonprofits now, supporting South Asian nonprofits don't have a living memory of 9/11 and the global war on terror, [00:45:00] and they have been politicized in different ways, right, over the last eight years, for example, the pandemic global wars, et cetera. And so there are a couple of ways in which I've been thinking about how we can support South Asian young people. so for example, how can we share historical analysis and political analysis so that young people understand that they are part of a trajectory of South Asian activism that actually started well before 9/11, before the 1960s, right, and that continues to today, so they don't feel fragmented. So that's something I've been sitting with a lot. Another is around pathways into public service and community service and into the nonprofit sector. So how could we support young people in terms of building their skills, in having pathways open to them into our nonprofit organizations? And then finally, how do we support them, um, so that they, can do this work for the long run? You know, we all struggle with burnout, we all [00:46:00] struggle with sustainability. what are some lessons learned that we can pass on? What are some best practices? that's something that's been sitting with me quite a bit since the gathering that we had, and I hope that the coalition will really think about, supporting young people's leadership and finding different avenues and pathways to do that. Miata Tan : That was Deepa Iyer reflecting on how movements can better support the next generation of South Asian organizers. Within the South Asian coalition, that work also means building long-term infrastructure for better collaboration. Now back to Sabiha Basrai with ASATA. Sabiha Basrai: I'm also really appreciating that the South Asian Coalition is this model for creating a container for many, many organizations to unite as a group while maintaining regional focus and individual issue priorities. I also wanna name that the place where I first learned how to do national coalition work was as a member of the National South Asian Coalition that ASATA had been part of. [00:47:00] It was facilitated by a group called SALT which played such a critical role in the post 9/11 era and continued to then work on DACA, creating resources for undocumented South Asians, along with other issues facing our diverse diasporas. And SALT closed a few years ago. It was a decision that I don't understand and was- has really left me with a lot of sadness and confusion. but I al- I know that sometimes institutions do end, but that the work does not end and the relationships do not end. And the South Asian Coalition is this emergent space that, um, is not led by any one organization. it is a space that is being invested in collectively, and we're really moving at the speed of trust so that we can be really laying that strong foundation that supports the work ahead. I'm really sitting with the ways in which sometimes this labor of Building the container, creating the container, [00:48:00] investing in the network. It's sometimes invisible labor, but it is the most critical because without it we can have moments of mass mobilization, but then that wasn't actually building any power over the long term. And I'm really looking forward to all of the very good work ahead, because I trust the relationships and the containers that we're building. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha reflecting on the collaborative infrastructure that the South Asian Coalition is helping to build. Now let's return to Deepa Iyer. I asked Deepa what campaigns are on the horizon for the coalition, especially as this year marks 25 years since 9/11. Deepa Iyer: As Sabiha mentioned, the coalition is a space for invested leadership, and so there are lots of different campaigns that groups within the coalition are eyeing and taking on. One of them Rajiv mentioned already is the fight around birthright citizenship. And so there are groups like SACHCO and others that showed up with a South Asian [00:49:00] delegation at the Supreme Court on April 1st when that case was being heard, and it was really great to see so many South Asians out there in a delegation along with other communities, to raise their voices on this really vital, pivotal issue. And so that is a campaign that some of the groups within the coalition are going to continue to be lifting up as we get the results of that case and moving forward. Another one that you mentioned, is around the 25th anniversary of 9/11, and there are groups that are considering, along with others in other movement spaces what does narrative strategy look like as we go into this time period? How do we think about the fact that we're marking the 25th anniversary in the same year that we're marking the 250th anniversary of the United States, right? how do we use 9/11 and its anniversary as a lens through which we understand empire, through which we understand the ways in which domestic [00:50:00] policies are being recirculated against other communities? And also this piece around awareness and education. this is an opportunity to share some of the personal experiences that many of us have around that moment in time, but also the ways in which our communities have built up themselves as well as the solidarity with other communities. So I think there are lots of ways in which organizations are thinking about that anniversary and how they can, utilize that moment, to draw greater attention to our community's experiences. Miata Tan : Rajiv, Farah, would you like to add anything about upcoming campaigns and how you're thinking about the South Asian political power movement moving forwards?  Rajiv Narayan: Yeah, I'm happy to talk about one sort of continuing campaign, which is that, like I mentioned, we put together this policy brief on undocumented South Asians, and we had this great opportunity to circulate and talk about it on Capitol Hill in DC. But it's also important for us to bring that story home. And so part of [00:51:00] what we'll be doing, um, for the remainder of, of this year is identifying opportunities to do town halls both, with community members and potentially with elected officials to help educate, do political education about the nature of undocumented peoples in the South Asian community. A large part of what we did in that policy brief is to collate all these numbers to tell you, how many folks might be undocumented, what is the proportion of undocumented people in the South Asian community. But an important, equally important contribution of that report is the nature of undocumented experiences. Why do people become undocumented? What are the factors that put them in that position, and what does it mean for a person to become undocumented? How can we support them, not just in different policy prescriptions, but also the ways that we talk about undocumented people and the South Asian community as a whole? So that'll, that'll be, um, a focus that we have, uh, and a contribution that we hope to make both in the, the Bay Area and beyond.  Farah Mahersi: I'll add to that, that it is election year. It is [00:52:00] a… I feel like we say every election is a critical election, and I do believe that that is very true this year. And so ASATA Power, as a political organization, will be making endorsements and talking through not just that it is important to vote, but it is really important and critical for us in this moment to vote for progressive candidates who are part of our, what is often called like a build coalition, who are here to help us build this world that we are dreaming of, who are aligned on policy positions. The other thing that we are working on locally and nationally is around the war budget. So as a group that has been so directly impacted by the global war on terror 4.5 million Muslims around the world who have been killed by US war-making in that global war on terror, and just watching kind of what the United States foreign policy in particular over the last couple of years has been, we have a particular point of view and a particular interest on tracking and watching things like the [00:53:00] largest, request for a defense budget in US history. How are those dollars being spent, And how those dollars that are being spent abroad to do war-making are also having a boomerang effect and coming back to impact our communities at home. So the same technologies that were developed and used in war-making through the global war on terror that impacted, uh, so many of our communities around the world for 25 years, a lot of that is the same technology that ICE is now using to go after undocumented South Asians in the United States, right? And so that's another way in which we really see our struggles are interconnected, and that we are wanting to dismantle als- a lot of these systems of harm, and also, again, at that intersection between both hate violence and state oppression that's happening. Miata Tan : That was Farah Mahestri with ASATA and ASATA Power. As she shared, ASATA Power is focused on the midterm elections and how war spending and post 9/11 policies continue to affect South Asian communities today. [00:54:00] To close out, we return to another ASATA organizer, Sabiha Basrai. Sabiha Basrai: So I wanted to bring the conversation back locally to the Bay Area again, and just thinking about, the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, which is, part of a network of AAPI and Asian organizing in the Bay Area as a space where South Asians progressive South Asians can actually build community, sharpen our political analysis, embrace our responsibilities here in the Bay Area in this political moment. And just also, lifting up that ASATA currently is working on things like the Oakland Arms Embargo or local community defense against ICE , environmental justice projects, and also looking for more ways to fight supremacist ideologies of Hindutva but in collaboration with anti-Zionist Jewish community activists. these are opportunities that we have here in the Bay Area. And also thinking about ways that we participate in mobilizations. Like, we show up for Reclaim MLK Day, [00:55:00] International Working Women's Day, May Day, the Trans March every year because we understand our responsibility to show up and to show up consistently. And so when I think about the South Asian Coalition and this moment of, okay, we've been trying to- we've built- been building towards this convening and this congressional briefing, and now we're on the other side of this moment, and we are kind of reflecting and coming back together around how we maintain this energy. Also wanted to highlight,  Some of the amazing work that many of our coalition members are, are already doing. One is Savaira, so Savaira United Against Supremacy is actually a coalition of work as well, they focused, their energy on addressing Hindu nationalism and and Hindutva ideology and the, and the many ways in which, the supremacist ideology is kind of insidiously part of institutions, policy even cultural work, uh, within our diaspora. they're so committed to both, like, [00:56:00] resisting the tides of hatred but also combating all forms of supremacist politics and the intersections between them. so their, their work has been a big part of my political education, and I'm really glad that they're part of this coalition. Every member of the coalition is bringing analysis and experience that cross-pollinates to the rest of us. So I'm looking forward to just more of that   also considering what ASATA's role is and how ASATA working in the Bay Area alongside so many other amazing organizing projects here can be strengthening those relationships nationally. Miata Tan : That was Sabiha Basrai with the Alliance of South Asians Taking Action, or ASATA.  This is APEX Express on 94.1 KPFA, a weekly radio show uplifting the voices and stories of Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders. APEX Express airs every Thursday evening at 7:00 PM. And with that, we're at the end of our time here [00:57:00] tonight. We really appreciate you for tuning in to listen, and a huge thank you to our wonderful guests. For a transcript of tonight's episode, please visit our website. That's kpfa.org/program/apex-express  We've also added links on the episode page for tonight's show so you can learn more about the South Asian Coalition, ASATA, and all of the organizations we've talked about tonight, along with their upcoming campaigns as well. APEX Express is produced by Ayame Keane-Lee, Anuj Vaidya, Isabel Li, Jalena Keane-Lee, Miko Lee, Miata Tan, Preeti Mangala Shekar and Swati Rayasam. Tonight's show was produced by me, Miata Tan. Get some rest y'all. The post APEX Express – 5.28.26 – Building South Asian Power appeared first on KPFA.

Pastor Jonathan Shelley of Stedfast Baptist Church joins Stew Peters to rip the mask off the Zionist Jewish takeover of Baptist churches and the heretical Israel-worship that's infected American Christianity.

News and labour updates from the Asia Pacific region.We speak with James Crafti, proud unionist and socialist, and member of ASU4P, about his recent trip to the West Bank as an anti-Zionist Jew. He shared his thought, reflections, lessons and warnings in relation to the ongoing genocide, Israel's barbaric regional wars, and the need for ongoing international solidarity.Asia Pacific Currents provides updates of labour struggles and campaigns from the Asia Pacific region. It is produced by Australia Asia Worker Links, in the studio of 3CR Radio in Melbourne, Australia.

The Journey 187. Ari Ben-Menashe on Current Events, 3/5/26 The Journey 187. Ari Ben-Menashe on Current Events, 3/5/26 This podcast episode featured a discussion between Robert, Todd, and Ari Ben Menashi (Dickens) about the Iran-Israel relationship and current geopolitical tensions. Ari, an Iranian Jew who previously worked in Israel's Prime Minister's office, provided historical context explaining how Israel and Iran were allies from 1979-1992 during the Iran-Iraq war, before relations deteriorated due to Israeli-Saudi financial incentives. The conversation covered how Jeffrey Epstein's connections to Israeli intelligence figure into current US-Iran tensions, with Ari suggesting the recent Iran strikes may be a distraction from Epstein-related revelations. The discussion also touched on the complex dynamics between Zionist and anti-Zionist Jewish communities, potential leadership scenarios in Iran, and the geopolitical implications of the current conflict, particularly regarding China-Iran relations. Find a copy of his book Profits of War: Inside the Secret U.S.-Israeli Arms Network here: https://trineday.com/products/profits-of-war Don't forget to follow TrineDay on social media: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TrineDayPress/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trinedaypress/ X: https://x.com/TrineDay 

The recent interview between Tucker Carlson and Mike Huckabee was eye-opening for a variety of reasons, just one being the remarkable portion devoted to questions about ancestry, biblical claims, and modern political sovereignty in Israel. The two discussed whether historical, religious, or genetic lineage determines land rights, with Carlson finding Huckabee's answers on why nonpracticing Jews from Eastern Europe like Benjamin Netanyahu should have a birthright to the land of Israel evasive and disingenuous.  Jimmy and Americans' Comedian Kurt Metzger expand the conversation to critique the conflation of Judaism with modern Zionism, citing statements from anti-Zionist Jewish groups who argue that political nationalism is distinct from religious faith. The segment concludes with broader commentary on Middle East history and identity debates. Plus segments on Kash Patel's recent scandalous appearance in the locker room with the US men's hockey team at the Winter Olympics and the FBI's coverup of a potential new suspect in Charlie Kirk's killing. Also featuring Stef Zamorano, Baron Coleman and Mike MacRae. And a phone call from JD Vance!

For years, he believed in Zionism.He defended it. He built relationships around it.Then everything changed.Now Streaming on Watermelon Plus!Use code HABIBI15!https://watch.watermelonpictures.com/habibi-houseIn this episode of Habibi House, we sit down for an honest conversation about ideology, accountability, and what happens when your worldview shifts in public. From personal loss to activism, this is a story about unlearning, consequences, and choosing to speak out.We discuss:• Growing up inside a belief system• The moment perspectives began to change• Losing friends and community after speaking out• The Gaza flotilla experience• Detention and interrogation• The emotional cost of taking a stance• What accountability and growth actually look like

Trump dominates Epstein docs with 4,500+ hits—flight logs, assault claims, elite dirt—tied to the depraved Zionist Jewish rulers using child rape and sacrifices to control U.S. gov and military. Dr. Michael Rectenwald exposes it all. Ryan Matta breaks down the massive Epstein release—millions of pages exposing Jeffrey as Mossad's blackmail kingpin targeting politicians, tech giants, and fueling regime shifts like Ukraine 2014 to back Israel's wars and expansions. John Jubilee from Energized Health is dropping truth bombs today, revealing how inner cellular hydration reverses heart damage, gets patriots off dozens of deadly meds, and rebuilds real health from the cells up. Go to energizedhealth.com right now, smash the red Cellular Health Training button for the free live class this February, register, and arm yourself with the knowledge to survive their attack!

Start with a word we all hear too much: fascism. Now ask why, with the term everywhere, our understanding keeps getting worse. That's the puzzle we dig into as Sudip Bhattacharya joins C. Derick Varn to dissect how American punditry flattens history, confuses categories, and protects the status quo with buzzwords instead of analysis. From cable news panels that treat any state action as “authoritarian,” to former neocons who reinvent themselves as respectable anti‑Trump voices while dodging their own records, we map the machinery that makes bad takes inevitable.The conversation moves from media habits to concrete stakes: Israel‑Palestine as a settler colonial project, the perverse weaponization of antisemitism, and the bizarre spectacle of far‑right figures courting Israel while trafficking in bigotry. We examine how this fog invites real antisemitism to grow and erases anti‑Zionist Jewish voices. Then we turn local: the Cuomo vs. Mamdani showdown in New York, where Islamophobic tropes, AI smear ads, and institutional panic collided with a multiethnic, youth‑driven coalition that showed what organizing can do. The story isn't about a savior candidate; it's about constituencies learning to convert movement energy into votes and power.Along the way, we chart the collapse of elite “competence”—tech barons LARPing masculinity, markets priced on fantasy, and leaders who cannot restore a fading consensus. That might sound bleak, but it's also an opening. We talk windows of opportunity: shifting public opinion on Palestine, younger voters rejecting old scripts, and the practical tools needed to make fast‑moving crises count—unions, tenant groups, legal defense, and media with memory. Precision beats panic. Structure beats vibes. If punditry sells amnesia, we trade in context: how we got here, what the rails look like, and where to lay new track.Listen, share with someone who's tired of vibes without history, and leave a review with the sharpest question this episode raised for you. Your notes shape what we tackle next.Link Discussed: https://revolpress.substack.com/p/comfortable-lies-how-pundits-enableSend us a text Musis by Bitterlake, Used with Permission, all rights to BitterlakeSupport the showCrew:Host: C. Derick VarnIntro and Outro Music by Bitter Lake.Intro Video Design: Jason MylesArt Design: Corn and C. Derick VarnLinks and Social Media:twitter: @varnvlogblue sky: @varnvlog.bsky.socialYou can find the additional streams on YoutubeCurrent Patreon at the Sponsor Tier: Jordan Sheldon, Mark J. Matthews, Lindsay Kimbrough, RedWolf, DRV, Kenneth McKee, JY Chan, Matthew Monahan, Parzival, Adriel Mixon, Buddy Roark, Daniel Petrovic,Julian

On this episode of CounterPunch Radio, Rebecca Maria Goldschmidt speaks with anti-Zionist Jewish community organizers in Brazil and Argentina from Vozes Judaicas por Libertação and JudíesxPalestina about their recent protective presence trip to the West Bank with the Center for Jewish Non-violence. They share a report back on the impacts of ongoing settler and occupational More The post The Anti-Zionist Movement in Latin America w/ Vozes Judaicas por Libertação and JudíesxPalestina appeared first on CounterPunch.org.

This week, Roqayah and Kumars are joined by Eliza Salamon, anti-Zionist Jewish organizer and recent alumna of Cornell University, whose direct ties to imperial violence she and her coauthor document in their new report released in collaboration with the organization The Antiwar Initiative.  Read Eliza's full report, published on the website Everything is Political, and visit antiwar.io to access all the resources you need to unmask complicity on your campus. If you want to support the show and receive access to tons of bonus content, including Roqayah's new weekly column “Last Week in Lebanon,” you can subscribe on our Patreon for as little as $5 a month. Also, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts. We can't do this show without your support!!!

Fortunately the banning passport bill did not pass. But that fact that could ever be introduced shows you who the masters are. 51 to 49 vote to hide the Epstein files should have been the global headline news. What a coincidence that that happened the same day Kirk was murdered. Tucker doesn't seem to realize a con-artist could be just tell him what he wants to hear so he can content farm him. He had 40 million from Zionist Jewish donors. Was he finally at 31 figuring out that shooting children is wrong? Because over and over again he said that is war and Hamas brought it upon themselves and those deaths are human shields. He believed it because his religious world view wont let him believe otherwise. Charlie was Superficial mid-wit arguing with semi retarded college kids while promoting Zionism and wasting time debating about what's a woman. That was his most popular video was that with 20 million views. He was totally brainwashed. People are clipping him out of context. For example he was asking Shapiro what do you say when people say X about Israel, not to push back but to learn how to respond better to such questions himself. They even clipped him saying Jews own the media and not the sarcastic eye-rolling remark after it saying you can tell by all the great headlines you get. In his childish mind he was fighting a holy war of good guys vs evil doers. The real issue is that this is a major blow to free speech. There will be more violence. People have the right to play idiot ping-pong. US colleges are the most intolerant places in the world. And Charlie talking to these reality denying weirdos exposed the state of US colleges. Tucker is like but he told me he secretly didn't like Netanyahu, yeah Tucker the con-artist told you what he knew you wanted to hear. They have to argue with children who go through a pre-selection because Israel is indefensible. We are not so desperate that we need to hope a Christian Zionist might change their mind. Kirk didn't matter. The only thing of value he showed is that American colleges will let in anyone willing to go into debt to pay them. Anyone except the people profiled in high school as resistant to indoctrination. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ryandawson.org/subscribe

In today's episode, we speak with author, influencer and anti-Zionist Jewish activist Sim Kern about their book Genocide Bad: Notes on Palestine, Jewish History, and Collective Liberation — Subscribe to this podcast: https://plinkhq.com/i/1637968343?to=page Get in touch: lawanddisorder@kpfa.org Follow us on socials @LawAndDis: https://twitter.com/LawAndDis; https://www.instagram.com/lawanddis/ The post Genocide Bad! w/ Author Sim Kern appeared first on KPFA.

Emmy-winning comedian and podcaster Matt Lieb joins Habibi House for one of the most explosive and honest conversations we've had yet. From his experience on Birthright to his transformation into an outspoken anti-Zionist, Matt breaks down the weaponization of Jewish identity, American complicity in Israeli apartheid, and the myth of safety used to justify violence.In this episode, we cover:Why Birthright was his political awakeningThe danger of conflating Judaism with ZionismHow the Israeli government manufactures consent through fearThe problem with liberal ZionismHis viral views on antisemitism and settler violence

In this powerful episode of Habibi House, we sit down with Palestinian journalist, writer, and unapologetic truth-teller Jenan Matari for one of the most emotionally raw, politically charged, and spiritually resonant conversations we've ever had.Jenan opens up about what it means to be a Muslim mother in a post-October 7 world, how the media manipulates the Palestinian narrative, and why she's done watering herself down for anyone. From the trauma of U.S. mercenaries posing as aid workers to the heartbreak of raising a child under global silence — Jenan holds absolutely nothing back.

Candace Owens and Roseanne Barr continue the Christian Nationalist vs Zionist Jewish online proxy war of words. Charlie Kirk exposes antisemitic conspiracy galaxy brain at TPUSA event. AP and @ComradeDoyle on the Groyperization of the online right.

What are some of the common ways that supporters of Israel justify the genocide in Gaza? Why is it important to counteract those narratives?In this series on healthcare and social disparities, Dr. Jill Wener, a board-certified Internal Medicine specialist, anti-racism educator, meditation expert, and tapping practitioner, interviews experts and gives her own insights into multiple fields relating to social justice and anti-racism. In this episode, Jill interviews Sim Kern, a journalist, book influencer, and anti-Zionist Jewish activist. This conversation is about the upcoming book, Genocide Bad: Notes on Palestine, Jewish History, and collective Liberation, which discusses the genocide in Gaza, and addresses several of the common arguments that are made in support of the Israeli genocide and apartheid in Gaza.Sim Kern is the USA Today bestselling author of The Free People's Village, an Indie Next Pick. As a journalist, book influencer, and anti-Zionist Jewish activist, Kern has used their social media platform to share educational content about Palestine and raise more than half a million dollars in direct mutual aid for families in Gaza since October 7th, 2023.LINKSGet the book: www.simkern.com/publicationsInstagram: @sim_bookstagrams_badlyTiktok: @sim booktoks badly**Our website www.consciousantiracism.comYou can learn more about Dr. Wener and her online meditation and tapping courses at www.jillwener.com, and you can learn more about her online social justice course, Conscious Anti Racism: Tools for Self-Discovery, Accountability, and Meaningful Change at https://theresttechnique.com/courses/conscious-anti-racism.If you're a healthcare worker looking for a CME-accredited course, check out Conscious Anti-Racism: Tools for Self-Discovery, Accountability, and Meaningful Change in Healthcare at www.theresttechnique.com/courses/conscious-anti-racism-healthcareJoin her Conscious Anti-Racism facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/307196473283408Follow her on:Instagram at jillwenerMDLinkedIn at jillwenermd

On March 8th, federal immigration agents arrested Mahmoud Khalil, a former Palestinian student activist at Columbia University, in his New York home and moved him to a detention facility in Louisiana. Khalil, a recent graduate from Columbia's public affairs masters program and a prominent leader in the school's movement to pressure the university to divest from companies complicit in Israel's genocide, is a legal permanent resident, and is not accused of any crime. The Trump administration has pointed to his political activism as the reason for why he should be deported, invoking a rarely-used Cold War-era law to argue that Khalil's presence in the US is contrary to US foreign policy interests. Jewish American organizations are split over the administration's reactions: The Anti-Defamation League has praised it, other mainstream groups have remained silent, and liberal Zionist and anti-Zionist Jewish organizations have sharply condemned it.On this episode of On the Nose, editor-in-chief Arielle Angel, associate editor Mari Cohen, and senior reporter Alex Kane discuss the Jewish political reaction to the arrest and detention of Khalil. They talk about how the mainstream Jewish establishment paved the way for this authoritarian act, whether liberal Jewish opposition to the arrest could portend new political alignments, and the rise of new reactionary Jewish groups such as Betar and Mothers Against College Antisemitism. Note: When this podcast was recorded, the American Jewish Committee had not yet made a statement on Khalil. On March 12th, the AJC released a statement condemning Khalil's political speech but calling for “due process” in deportation proceedings against him. Articles Mentioned and Further Reading“A growing number of Jewish groups are condemning Mahmoud Khalil's arrest,” Ben Sales, Jewish Telegraphic Agency “The Push to ‘Deactivate' Students for Justice in Palestine,” Alex Kane, Jewish Currents“Why the ADL is encouraging Jews to invest in Tesla,” Arno Rosenfeld, The Forward“Elon Musk, the Jews, and the ADL,” Know Your Enemy podcast“Campus protest crackdowns claim to be about antisemitism – but they're part of a rightwing plan,” Arielle Angel, The Guardian“The Boomerang Comes Back,” Noura Erakat, Boston Review“In leaked messages, members of ‘Columbia Alumni for Israel' group chat work to identify, punish pro-Palestinian protesters,” Sarah Huddleston, Columbia...

Unfortunately, this episode ran short due to technical issues, but Pastor/Dr. David Murphy did get to answer a couple listener questions. The first revolved around a YouTube video claiming Bible prophecy is being fulfilled in that the Zionist Jewish community plans to sacrifice the red heifers later this year, which means the Third Solomon Temple will be built on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The listener asked if the video was authentic, and if the Jews do not believe that Jesus is their Messiah, how can they be preparing for his return? One other question was in relation to Matthew 15:25 and Mark 7:27, asking if Jesus really call the Syrophenician woman a "dog"? Listen as Pastor/Dr. David Murphy discusses these questions.

Anti-Zionist Jewish Rally here II Indigenous person Debbie Morgan-Frail speaks up at the recent anti-Zionist Jewish Rally in Melbourne.Save Public Housing Update here II Retrofitting public housing towers better & cheaper option 2 independent reports to knocking down the 44 public housing towers announced by Vic Labor Government last year. We speak with Kerrie Byrne from Save Public Housing Collective.Māori Mini Film Festival here II Maori Mini Film Festival @ Bunjil Place part of Asia Topa. Madeleine de Young, Maori Film Festival Programmer, talks to us about this March 1 & 2 event.Anti-Refugee Laws Passed here II Laura John, Associate Legal Director – Human Rights Law Centre, Specialist in immigration justice, talks to us about the laws passed last week Federally which further disadvantages refugees to this country while continuing to besmirch Australia's human rights credentials.Anti-Refugee Memes Rife here II Peter Job talks to us about the main thesis of his on-line Pearls & Irritation article about Australia's disease of refugee abuse.Tempi Train Tragedy Remembered here II Dimotro Tafidis from the Australian Greek community alerts us to a rally set for Friday 28th at 12.30 - 2pm in front of the Greek Embassy in Melbourne to commemorate the Tempi rail crash two years ago. The Melbourne rally will be in tune with a general strike in Greece which is calling for safe public infrastructure and working class issues. 

In this episode of the Sumud Podcast, we're happy to host USA Today best-selling author and environmental journalist, Sim Kern. Known for their bold critiques of petrochemical polluters and billionaires, Sim has become a leading voice in mobilizing solidarity for Palestine. Since October 2023, they've raised over $500,000 in direct aid for families in Gaza, while using their platform to educate and challenge narratives around Palestine. We discuss their latest book, "Genocide Bad: Notes on Palestine, Jewish History, and Collective Liberation," which examines the ongoing genocide in Gaza, counters Zionist propaganda, and connects Jewish history with the fight for justice. Sim shares their journey from grappling with Zionist narratives to becoming a vocal anti-Zionist activist and how this has shaped their advocacy for collective liberation. This episode delves into: ➡️ Sim's personal journey as a Jewish anti-Zionist. ➡️ The systematic erasure of Palestinian voices in publishing and beyond. ➡️ The intersections of environmental justice, colonialism, and Palestine. ➡️ The backlash and resilience of anti-Zionist activists.

As Promised, the FULL Episode has been unlocked thanks to your podcast reviews and Patreon Subscriptions which help make the show possible. A look at Sam Harris's post-election transphobic meltdown. _____ Links: Woking Up Miniseries Playlist: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1caIpbHnvDjKu0Ph4DA0Nb?si=mVwmALDdQnG1w4TgBsu-eg&pi=u-1R3kJWRIR0Om More about the Centrists at Blueprint Polling: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/blueprint-polling-reid-hoffman-biden-trump.html https://x.com/blueprint_2024/status/1857464633365508479?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw On the Rise of the Latino far right: https://bsky.app/profile/therightpodcast.bsky.social/post/3lba5o5ls5s2p Majority of ‘news influencers' are conservative men: https://www.usermag.co/p/the-majority-of-news-influencers ‘Your body, my choice': Attacks on women surge on social media following election https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/11/business/your-body-my-choice-movement-election/index.html Mass arrests after pro-Israel inciter shouts ‘ki!! The J*ws' https://x.com/thedailybeast/status/1784261533771464849?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw Pro-Israel protestors doing N@zi salute to intimidate anti-Zionist Jewish protestors https://x.com/michaelsoftinc/status/1784254756656939386?s=61&t=w7q_ejvwZ_gCFj9WV50Lqw IOC calls tests that sparked vitriol targeting boxers Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting impossibly flawed https://apnews.com/article/olympics-2024-imane-khelif-lin-yuting-boxing-13e9529195585404c7b03c96f97dd634 https://abcnews.go.com/International/olympic-boxer-imane-khelifs-gender-center-ioc-iba/story?id=112509303 The Algerian boxer was born female, was registered female, lived her life as a female, has a female passport," the International Olympic Committee (IOC) said in a press conference on Friday. Gender-affirming surgeries rarely performed on transgender youth https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/gender-affirming-surgeries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/ On day 1 - Biden signed an executive order making it clear that his administration interprets the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as prohibiting workplace discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. https://www.politico.com/interactives/2021/interactive_biden-first-day-executive-orders/ Sex Redefined https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a

Waseem Hijazi, a passionate Palestinian vegan food blogger, and Victoria Hertel, an anti-Zionist Jewish vegan advocate from Vegans for Palestine join the show this week. Wasim discusses how his journey into veganism is not just about health but also a means to advocate for Palestinian rights, while Victoria reveals her transformation into anti-Zionism and her dedication to supporting Palestinians through the lens of veganism and activism. We scrutinize the ethical implications of Western veganism's silence on Palestinian oppression and the troubling practice of "vegan washing" by the Israeli government. Our discussion ventures into the wider landscape of activism, examining the power of collective actions like the BDS movement.  We wrap up our episode by emphasizing the importance of community-driven efforts and solidarity across movements. From supporting Palestinian families with plant-based food parcels to critiquing the support of Israeli vegan products, we call for genuine engagement and the preservation of cultural integrity. This episode is a thought-provoking exploration of how veganism can be a tool for activism and social change, inviting you to reconsider the impact of your choices on a global scale. Guest Bios: Victoria Hertel (she/her) is Vegan for Palestine's Public Image Committee Chair. She is an anti-Zionist Jew, vegan and queer person currently residing on the Lands of the Peoria, Mississauga, Bodwéwadmi (Potawatomi), Anishinabewaki ᐊᓂᔑᓈᐯᐗᑭ, and Wyandot Peoples on Turtle Island. She believes Zionism contradicts the values of Judaism and by conflating the two it is detrimental to the religion. Judaism, according to the Torah, forbids Jews to have our own sovereignty and forbids to kill or steal. Zionism is a genocidal and nationalistic political ideology, which was created by non-religious people. Standing in opposition to the state of “Israel” is standing with true Jewish values, and calling that anti-Semitic is inaccurate. Victoria is a photographer and a healthcare professional. She recognizes her white privilege and continues to learn and unlearn in order to be a better advocate and ally for all sentient beings. She believes that vegans have a duty to be intersectional in their advocacy and cannot only advocate for non-human animals because every injustice is connected whether it's humans, non-human animals, or the environment. Waseem Hijazi is a Palestinian vegan content creator, and the founder of the food blog: Plant Based Arab. His journey towards veganism started around five years ago, after taking on monthly challenges in pursuit of a healthier lifestyle. This led to a deeper realization of how our actions - even as individuals - can contribute to the suffering of other living beings. He's involved with the Vegans for Palestine group: a space to be in community with fellow vegans and animal rights activists, to advocate for Palestine. Helping to raise awareness about Israel's vegan-washing, and how we may be contributing to the oppression of Palestinians with what we choose to consume rather than boycott; as well as highlighting some of the ways to support Palestinians in Gaza via on the ground initiatives, and more. Waseem has contributed a selection of Arabic and Palestinian recipes to a fundraiser eBook, in collaboration with a collective of vegans of the Global Majority, called: Flavours of Freedom. You can find more of his vegan recipes on the website: www.plantbasedarab.com, and connect with him directly on Instagram @plantbasedarab. Thanks for listening to another episode. Follow, review, and share to help Consciously Clueless grow! Connect with me: https://www.consciouslycarly.com/ Join the Consciously Clueless community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/consciouslycarly Connect on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/consciously.carly/ Connect on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/consciously.carly.blog Music by Matthew Baxley

A conversation about Palestine solidarity organizing in Hawaiʻi with Cynthia Franklin and Imani Altemus-Williams from the Hawaiʻi chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace. JVP Hawaiʻi works to educate Hawaiʻi communities about settler-colonialism in Palestine and the links to colonialism and militarism in Hawaiʻi. They organize Jewish and non-Jewish communities towards an end to u.s. funding to Israeli apartheid and the militarized occupation of Palestine. They work to build a loving and intersectional anti-zionist Jewish community in Hawaiʻi where everyone is welcome and feels safe in expressing their solidarity with Palestine, taking action for tangible social change for the liberation of both Palestine and Hawaiʻi. Instagram: @jvphawaii Tags: Hawaiʻi, Hawai'i, Hawaii

It's Casual Friday! Emma speaks with Jeet Heer, national affairs correspondent for The Nation, to round up the week in news. First, Sam and Emma run through updates on uber-controversial revelations around GOP gubernatorial candidate Mark Robinson, Israel's aggression to Lebanon, RFK's newest allegations, Mike Johnson's capitulation to Dems over government funding, and labor action in the US, before parsing through Donald Trump's use of the Zionist-Jewish conflation to blame the Jews for his theoretical upcoming loss. Jeet Heer then joins, as he, Sam, and Emma bask in the glory of the last few weeks (and particularly the last 24 hours) of leaks-upon-leaks of Republican malfeasance and controversy, from the Russian money behind right-wing commentators like Tim Pool and Dave Rubin, to the deep revelations of hypocrisy, bigotry, and infidelity in Mark Robinson's “Nude Africa” account (which, incidentally, tied in Chris Rufo), and RFK's ongoing scandal involving NYMag reporter Olivia Nuzzi. Expanding on this, Heer unpacks the growing pictures of a Trump campaign embroiled in chaos, as their main spokesfolks for the disillusioned man – JD Vance and RFK Jr. – continue to flounder in their media rounds while the candidate himself cannot help but get “Loomered.” Wrapping up, Jeet, Sam, and Emma look to the electoral state of the race, unpacking the central role Pennsylvania, North Carolina (thank you, Mark Robinson!), and Georgia are likely to play come November and assessing the rhetoric Harris and Trump are using to court those voters. And in the Fun Half: Sam and Emma dive deep into the crevasses of Mark Robinson's developing controversy, gain clarity on some of his and Trump's past interactions, and ponder the question of the leaker. They also tackle Harris' do “no” harm (excluding, you know, the genocide of Palestinians) to US-Israel relations and Nebraska's electoral fight, before parsing through the contradictions and lies that ground the US immigration system debate with Republican caller Will from Virginia. Andrea from Chicago responds to Kowalski's comments on industrial growth and housing, and Nathan from LA gives his perspective on the US economy… and also the show, plus your calls and IMs! Follow Jeet on Twitter here: https://x.com/HeerJeet Check out Jeet's work at The Nation here: https://www.thenation.com/authors/jeet-heer/ TICKETS FOR MAJORITY REPORT ELECTION NIGHT LIVE SHOW HERE!: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-majority-report-with-sam-seder-election-night-coverage-live-show-tickets-1010883639177 Call your Senators at 202-224-3121 and urge them to tell Sen. Schumer NOT to bring Sen. bill 4127 to the floor! 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For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you go to https://Nutrafol.com/men and enter the promo code TMR.  Find out why over 4,500 healthcare professionals and stylists recommend Nutrafol for healthier hair. That's https://Nutrafol.com/men, promo code TMR. Henson Shaving: It's time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that'll last you a lifetime. Visit HENSONSHAVING.com/MAJORITY to pick the razor for you and use code MAJORITY and you'll get two years' worth of blades free with your razor–just make sure to add them to your cart. Sunset Lake CBD: Sunsetlakecbd is a majority employee owned farm in Vermont, producing 100% pesticide free CBD products. Use code Leftisbest and get 20% off at http://www.sunsetlakecbd.com. 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Ralph welcomes former TV writer turned grass roots organizer, Jason Berlin, who explains how his group, Field Team 6, uses the latest data and analytics to identify and reach out to potential Democratic voters in order to register them to vote and how that could turn the tide in purple, flippable states.Jason Berlin is a former TV writer and co-founder of Field Team 6, a national voter-registration project that organizes voter drives to register Democrats in the most flippable states across the country.The fact is you can't get out the vote if those voters don't exist to begin with. It's like no one had a talk with people about where a voter comes from. So we concentrate on that first half of the equation—getting people over that biggest hurdle, getting them registered, generating this river of new Democrats and Independents who can then get into the system and be targeted by the massive get-out-the-vote machinery.Jason BerlinThe Democratic Party over the years has exhibited serious symptoms of masochism. It's like they've written off half the country, where they don't even compete.Ralph NaderIn Case You Haven't Heard with Francesco DeSantisNews 9/4/241. On August 28th, the Israeli Defense Forces targeted United Nations World Food Programme vehicles with “repeated gunfire,” per CNN. According to the agency, “Despite being clearly marked and receiving multiple clearances by Israeli authorities to approach, the vehicle was directly struck by gunfire as it was moving toward an…IDF…checkpoint.” Photos show at least ten bullet holes in the vehicle windows. As this piece highlights, “ongoing airstrikes and repeated evacuation orders by Israeli forces have forced many of the agency's food warehouses and community kitchens to shutter…The IDF-designated ‘humanitarian zone' in Gaza is also steadily shrinking; in the past month alone, the IDF has reduced this zone by 38%.” This incident is reminiscent of the Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen workers in April, when the IDF killed three Britons, a Palestinian, a US-Canadian dual citizen, an Australian, and a Pole via multiple airstrikes. Two days after the World Food Programme incident, CNN reported that the IDF killed four in a humanitarian aid vehicle affiliated with the American Near East Refugee Aid organization.2. On Monday, the Israeli labor federation, Histradrut, called a general strike in order to “pressure Netanyahu's government into changing its approach to cease-fire negotiations,” per NPR. This action was taken in response to the death of six hostages who would have been released had Israel agreed to the ceasefire proposed in early July. According to NPR, “Many schools and government buildings were shut…[and]…Ben Gurion airport…paused flights for several hours.” Yet, Israel's Labor Court quickly ordered the strike to end and the union obeyed; the action lasted less than one business day. This incident illustrates the deep discontent with the Netanyahu government's handling of the hostage negotiations, but also the impotence of Israeli civil society to change course.3. In more positive news related to labor and Israel, Democracy Now! reports Jimmy Williams Jr. president of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, says his union is “directing its massive international pension fund to divest from the Gaza genocide.” According to left-wing British outlet Skwakbox, the Painter's Union receives $330 million dollars in new contributions from union members each year.4. The Middle East Monitor reports “Ray Youssef, CEO of the Bitcoin marketplace platform, Noonesapp…[alleges that cryptocurrency giant Binance] ‘has seized all funds from all Palestinians as per the request of the IDF. They refuse to return the funds. All appeals denied.'” Responding to this allegation, a Binance spokesperson claimed that this seizure of assets only covers a limited number of accounts linked to “illicut funds,” though “Binance did not specify the extent or value of the ‘illicit funds' involved.” Boosters of cryptocurrency, like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., have framed it in terms of “transactional freedom,” per Axios. Not so for the Palestinians, it seems.5. Jeremy Corbyn, former leader of the U.K. Labour Party, has united with four other independent, pro-Gaza MPs to form the Independent Alliance, per the BBC. This new parliamentary bloc will “use their…platform to campaign for scrapping the two-child benefit limit and against arms sales to Israel.” With five MPs in this alliance, it already outnumbers the Green Party and is equal to Reform UK, the far-right party formed by Brexit champion Nigel Farage. In their first move since forming the Independent Alliance, the MPs issued a statement in response to Foreign Minister David Lammy's announcement that the U.K. will suspend a small number of arms export licenses to Israel. This statement reads “For months, we have called for an immediate and full suspension of arms sales to Israel. The government has finally admitted there is a clear risk of weapons being used to commit violations of international law…This announcement must be the first step in ending all arms…used by the Israeli military to commit genocide in Gaza.”6. According to the ACLU of Indiana, “[Indiana University] has approved a new policy that prohibits all expressive activity if it takes place between 11 p.m. and 6 a.m., even if the activity is not at all disruptive, such as standing silently, holding a sign, wearing a t-shirt with a communicative message, or discussing current events with friends.” This policy, which “carries harsh punishments, including suspension or expulsion for students, and suspension or termination of staff,” was adopted in response to campus pro-Palestine demonstrations last year. The ACLU of Indiana has already filed a lawsuit to overturn this chilling policy. And at New York University, Palestine Legal reports “In a dangerous escalation of repression, [NYU] announced new student conduct policies last week that appear to prohibit criticism of Zionism. If implemented, these policies risk creating a hostile environment for Palestinian and anti-Zionist Jewish students and severely curtail…free expression.” This statement notes that NYU does not afford protected status to any other political ideology and that this decision “opens the door for other ethno-nationalist ideologies to claim protection from criticism. With Zionism enshrined as a protected class, there's no reason why Hindu nationalism, Christian nationalism, white nationalism or similar ideologies wouldn't be afforded the same.” Palestine Legal has vowed that it will “continue to monitor and combat institutional attempts to punish and censor students organizing for Palestinian rights.”7. In a major escalation of tensions, the United States seized Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro's plane in the Dominican Republic and transferred it to Florida, per the BBC. According to this report, “US officials said the plane was seized for suspected violations of US export control and sanctions laws,” while Venezuelan officials have denounced this move as an act of “piracy,” and “reserves the right to take any legal action to repair this damage to the nation.” Foreign Minister Yván Gil said the US had justified itself “with the coercive measures that they unilaterally and illegally impose around the world.” This is just the latest case of western governments seizing Venezuelan state assets; in 2018, the Bank of England seized nearly $2 billion worth of Venezuelan gold and has refused to return those assets despite urging from the United Nations special rapporteur on sanctions, per Declassified UK.8. The Miami Herald is out with a stunning new report on the dubious “Havana Syndrome” which finds that patients were “coerced” to join an NIH study on the supposed illness. According to this piece, “An internal review board at the National Institutes of Health…decided to shut down a long-term study of Havana Syndrome patients that found no signs of brain injuries, after several participants complained of mishandled medical data, bias and pressures to join the research. [Jennifer George] A spokeswoman for NIH said the internal review found that ‘informed consent' policies to join the study ‘were not met due to coercion.” Though George insists the coercion was not on the part of the NIH, she declined to identify who coerced the patients.9. Daniel Nichanian of Bolts Magazine reports “[Arizona Democratic Senate nominee Ruben] Gallego, fresh off of a police union endorsement, just penned a letter to the US [Department of Justice] asking them to stand down in its investigations against the Phoenix police and its effort to bring the department under a consent decree.” The proposed consent decree in question stems from a DOJ investigation that found “[Phoenix PD] uses excessive force, including unjustified deadly force… unlawfully detain, cite, and arrest people experiencing homelessness and unlawfully dispose of their belongings…discriminates against Black, Hispanic, and Native American people when enforcing the law…violates the rights of people engaged in protected speech and expression…[and] discriminate against people with behavioral health disabilities when dispatching calls for assistance and responding to people in crisis.”10. Finally, in more positive Senate-related news, a new Split Ticket poll shows populist Independent candidate Dan Osborn running neck-and-neck with incumbent Republican Senator Deb Fischer in Nebraska. While Donald Trump leads Kamala Harris 54 to 37, the same poll shows Senator Fischer leading by only 1 point – 39% to Osborn's 38%, with 23% undecided. Osborn, a union leader who organized the 2021 Kellogg strike, has been favorably profiled by the American Prospect. There is no Democrat running for this seat.This has been Francesco DeSantis, with In Case You Haven't Heard. Get full access to Ralph Nader Radio Hour at www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/subscribe

Today, our episode's all about discipleship around political engagement, based on a series of Bible studies Jonathan and his team at his real job recently created for this election season and beyond. Some points we hit:-        Why it is essential for our political action to understand  we were not created for this world-        Why followers of Jesus won't overemphasize the importance of political victories and losses-        The reality that we are all connected to each other and God desires everyone's political liberation-        And, after that discussion, we dive into a recommendation from one of our recent newsletters on the fallout from Israel's torture of Hamas operativesCredits-            Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads. Subscribe to get our bonus episodes and other benefits at KTFPress.com.-        Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.-        Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.-        Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.-        Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.-        Editing by Multitude Productions-        Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.-        Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscript Introduction[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes in a major scale, the first three ascending and the last three descending, with a keyboard pad playing the tonic in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Jonathan Walton: If we are clear-eyed about the brokenness of the world, I would love for us to be as clear-eyed about the bigness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't think our concept of sin and our concept of redemption is actually mature enough to deal with the problems of the world.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking Jesus, confronting injustice. I'm Jonathan Walton.Sy Hoekstra: And I'm Sy Hoekstra. I'm so excited about what we're gonna be talking about today. We have concluded our series of interviews with authors from the anthology that we published in 2020 about Christianity and politics in the era of Trump. For the next several five or six episodes until the election, you will be hearing more from the two of us. We'll probably have a couple more interviews, but it will not be from those authors. But today, we are jumping into something that I think is very core to what we do at KTF Press. We're talking about political discipleship and how the ways that some stuff that we maybe in some churches relegate to the realm of personal salvation, like the incarnation and the death and resurrection of Jesus, actually have a whole lot to say about how we engage politically. But before we get to all of that, Jonathan.Jonathan Walton: Remember, if you like what you hear and what you read from KTF Press, and would like for it to continue beyond this election season, please go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber and encourage your friends to subscribe as well. We've got a ways to go if we're gonna have enough people to sustain this work, but we believe this work is valuable for us and for you, and so we hope that you do too. Go to KTFPress.com, that'll get you the bonus episodes of this show, access to monthly Zoom chats with the two of us and more, but only if you are subscribed. So again, go to KTFPress.com, subscribe today.The Bible Studies Jonathan's Team Created about Christian Political EngagementSy Hoekstra: All right. So Jonathan, this conversation is actually coming from some work that you are doing in your regular job with InterVarsity. First of all, remind people what you do with InterVarsity [laughter], and then tell people about these resources that you've produced and kind of what the goal of them is.Jonathan Walton: So I'm a Senior Resource Specialist with InterVarsity. And what that looks like is when there are some significant problems, then those things get sent up to the discipleship and leadership team to think about, and one of the things in our sandbox is political discipleship. And so for the last six months, we've been working on a curriculum that folks will be able to use to not just see and seek Jesus during this election season, but actually be formed into people who can see Jesus on the seat in our image as a seat of a stool with three legs, and on the seat. The Lord over our feelings, over our thoughts, over our actions, is Jesus. And so this five part Bible study really leans into that and prayerfully will push people to make that decision, to say, “Oh yes, if I'm a follower of Jesus, then my orthopathy, my orthodoxy and my orthopraxy will be under the Lordship of Jesus.”Sy Hoekstra: You just said three big words. I think a lot of people know that orthodoxy kind of means right belief, and orthopraxy kind of means right practiceJonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: Orthopathy, what does that mean?Jonathan Walton: Orthopathy, which most of us function on is our feelings and passions. So what does it look like for us to actually say, “I feel uncomfortable, I feel afraid, I feel sad.” And instead of acting out of that feeling and then forming a theology that justifies our actions that were based on our feelings of fear or anxiety or discomfort or loss of control, we actually said, “Oh, I feel afraid of this,” or “I feel uncomfortable about this, but I can actually put that fear, that discomfort, that anger, under the seat of Jesus,” and be able to have our thoughts and actions be in line with the kingdom of God, and not just in line with our deepest wounds or whims.Sy Hoekstra: Okay, so that is some helpful context. You have created these Bible studies as part of your job as a resource developer, and we will have links to those Bible studies that are available for free online. So if you wanna do a five session Bible study with a small group or whatever, you can go get Jonathan's stuff and talk about politics with your small group, which I think everybody should be doing right now [laughter], at least if you live in the United States. Not everybody that listens to the show is in the United States, but for all the Americans, go do that, please. Oh, and actually, sorry you didn't write these. You were part of the team that developed these.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: The actual writing was done by other people, but you were very involved in the process.We Were Not Created for This World, and That Affects Our PoliticsSy Hoekstra: So let's get into one of the main ideas here, which I think is, let's talk about some of the implications of the idea that we were not created for the world that we live in. This is kind of a big deal I think, in your thinking, and I would like you to tell us what, first of all, what kind of world were we created for, and then what does that imply for our politics?We Were Created for a World Where Everything Existed in HarmonyJonathan Walton: One of the things that gets lost in most of our theology about the quote- unquote, fall is that we don't engage as much with what the world could have looked like if we had not, quote- unquote, fallen. And so I like to think about every possible thing in the world that is broken and not working well, what if it had been working just fine? So let's imagine for a moment that work, like Adam and Eve in the Garden doing the stuff, was good. Like work was good. Let's imagine for a moment that a man never blamed the problem on a woman, and a woman never blamed the problem on the man. Let's imagine a world free of shame, jealousy, deceit and blaming. Let's lean into that slim window in Scripture and that slim window and stories that were passed down for generations, and generations where there was no deceit.We could know one another and be known. We could forgive, because I don't imagine that no one got hurt, but I imagine though, is people were quick to forgive and quick to ask for forgiveness. To be able to live in harmony with the world, that includes that big Shalom theology, where there's peace in me, there's peace between me and others, there's peace between me and creation, there's peace between me and God. There's reconciliation, there's Shalom there. And so since we do not have that world, the world that we currently live in is one that we will have constant dissonance with.We Must Be People Who Rejoice When Empires FallJonathan Walton: So fast forward all the way to Revelation 18,19, and 20, when quote unquote, Babylon, or the Empire is destroyed.And there are people that are weeping over Babylon, and there are people that are rejoicing that Babylon has been destroyed. Followers of Jesus need to be in the camp that says we are rejoicing that Babylon is destroyed. Hallelujah, salvation and glory be unto our God. If we are those people that say, “Ah, you know what? We're so sad that all the spices and all the products and all the slaves are no longer being brought to our shores to serve us,” then you suffer under the judgment of God. The judgment of God says these systems are unjust. A lot of followers of Jesus and other folks don't like to talk about the judgment of God, but I will be honest, I am totally fine talking about the judgment of God when talking about destroying unjust systems and structures in the world [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: Like Jesus, let that come as quickly as possible. So in Amos via Martin Luther King, how most people recognize it, let justice roll down like a mighty stream. That's what we are talking about. When these systems of injustice and violence are washed away. We were not made to be exploited or to exploit other people. We were not made to dominate, destroy, rule and violate. That's not what it is. And so that's what I mean when we say we should have dissonance with this world that we are in because we were not made for this nonsense that we experience regularly.Sy Hoekstra: And then our politics should reflect that dissonance.We Should Not Be Seduced by ColonialismJonathan Walton: Yes. Our politics should reflect that dissonance, and what we should not do is be seduced by coloniality. And here's what I mean by that. Aníbal Quijano, who was a Peruvian sociologist and scholar on coloniality, talked about the seduction of European colonialism, such as that, even though you take colonialism away, we cannot imagine ourselves independent of that colonized structure being in place. And so if we look around the world, the sun never set on the British Empire in that way, there are entire people groups including Black people in the United States, who it's very difficult to imagine life outside of the stratified, segregated society that we find ourselves in.And so for me, I think when we think about our political systems, and we talked about this before on the podcast, one of the things we need a radical revolution of is imagination. Like to be able to imagine a different way of share, like mutual aid, reciprocity. Being able to say, “You know, what? What if I'm not a wage earner in a society, I am still valuable.” Sy, you've talked about this in your essays about disability. Like, what would it look like for us not to see the CEO and the kid with down syndrome as equally valuable for God, even though one of them contributes more to the GDP, like we need to lean into that. And so when we make decisions in politics, we actually need to wrestle with that dissonance as opposed to trying to impose a perfect will in an imperfect world, because it will not exist or come to pass.We Should Always Be Unsatisfied with Political Outcomes, and Be Aware We Don't Control ThemSy Hoekstra: Yeah. So I think one of the things that you and I have talked about that is basically how we will almost always be unsatisfied with the decisions and the activity that we engage in in politics.Jonathan Walton: Yes, and that is okay [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, exactly. Right. That's part of it. You should be that way, is what we're saying.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You shouldn't be someone who votes wholeheartedly like, what I'm rejecting right now is people who are just like, “Yes, Trump is God's man. We're with him 100 percent. He's gonna do all the stuff we need him to do.” There isn't really a Christian equivalent to that on the left, or I would reject that as well, if anyone was saying that same thing with that same level of fervor about Kamala Harris [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: But well, we'll talk about how there is still some idolatry on the left, but we'll get into that nuance in a second. I just want to emphasize this point, that it's the lack of satisfaction with our votes and the lack of satisfaction with outcomes of activism isn't just what you should expect, it's reflecting a reality in a good way [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: That you are not… you know what I mean? You're always going to feel that tension because you were made to be loved and treated with justice and kindness and generosity and to do the same for others, and that is fundamentally not how our system ever works.Jonathan Walton: Exactly.Sy Hoekstra: We will know that we don't have control over the systems that we have. We should know that [laughs]. We should go into our political engagement with that in the front of our minds, that we don't control the outcomes, and we shouldn't be surprised when they don't come out exactly the way we want them to. But again, when we were talking about this, another thing you pointed out was we also don't have control over God and how God affects the outcomes that God wants to affect [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: We don't know how that's going to happen. So a political loss for us does not necessarily mean anything about God or God's plans, right?Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: So that is kind of the hopeful other side of that coin that I was just talking about. And that doesn't mean by the way, that we don't make clear decisions in certain contexts and be like, “No, this person is absolutely better than this person.” I have no problem saying that. You know what I mean? I feel like sometimes when you talk about being a citizen of the kingdom, there's a lot of like, especially White Christians, who will say that kind of means that we should never really judge anybody's choices at all [laughter], and I fully disagree with that [laughs], because in a given context, someone can be much better than somebody else. They're just not perfect.We Should Want to Make Things Better in Small Ways and Do as Little Harm as PossibleJonathan Walton: Well, the only other thing I'll say, and this actually may apply to later questions in the conversation as well. But I had a conversation, I was one of the keynote speakers for the Community Boost nonprofit leaders conference this week. And one of the speakers, she was on the panel I was moderating, her name is Jennifer Jones Austin. She's the Executive Director of the Federation of Protestant Welfare organizations in New York City.Sy Hoekstra: Gotcha.Jonathan Walton: She used to have a position in corrections in New York City as an advocate [laughs]. She said, “It is my job in this space,” holding her faith in all these things she possibly can, she said “This system is toxic, it's broken, it is terrible, and in so much as I can, I will prevent all harm that I can. And if I also could do incrementally better, then I will do that, knowing full well that this is not the kingdom of God, and I will be wholly dissatisfied with all the things, even the progress, quote- unquote, progress that I'm able to make.” And I think that is a sobering embrace of the realities of where we stand as followers of Jesus who are able to and in so far as we are willing to actually participate in the change of the systems and structures that we are in.So that's Priscilla with education. She is going to [laughs], in Jesus name, do as little harm as she possibly can and make as much progress, quote- unquote, progress as she possibly can.Sy Hoekstra: This is your wife, who's the principal of a school for people who don't know.Jonathan Walton: Yes, and I've recognized also that this is me within InterVarsity, an evangelical organization in the United States that fully participates in the system of this country. Like philanthropy is broken, giving is broken. We all know these systems will not usher in the kingdom of God. At the same time, we are called to participate and reflect the kingdom of God as best as we can. And so I think as we vote, as we enter in, as you were saying, we do not have control over the system, we do not have control over God, but we do control if we are obedient to him and faithfully wrestle with what it looks like to follow him in context. Because, as Munther Isaac, Palestinian theologian, prophet, amazing person said, a theology without context is irrelevant, and we are doing our best to live out of theology in our context.Sy Hoekstra: Both of us saw him speak last week, or I guess when you're hearing this, it'll be two weeks ago at Riverside Church, and it was incredible. And one or two of the things Jonathan has said so far, are certainly inspired by Reverend Isaac. If you look at our newsletter from the 23rd you can watch the entire talk on YouTube. It's incredible. I really suggest everyone does it. When Jonathan says he's a prophet, that's not…Jonathan Walton: Oh, I'm not joking. Yeah [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: It's not an exaggeration. It's like the word prophet is something that gets thrown around a lot, and it can be grandiose when you apply to certain people. This man fits the bill [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Why Christians Shouldn't Overemphasize Political Wins and LossesSy Hoekstra: Okay, so let's get into another point that we were talking about that I think is important when it comes to political discipleship, especially in this moment of heightened tension in the election. Which is there are so many ways that understanding yourself as a citizen of the kingdom of God makes you less likely to overemphasize political victories and losses. And you can err to one side in the way that Trump does, which is what I was talking about before, or the way that Trump supporters do, where they can say, “Trump being elected will basically be our political salvation [laughs]. We will be fine. Our power will be given back to us the way that we deserve, our enemies shall be defeated,” etcetera, etcetera.But like I also said, there are ways that the left does this and there are ways that the right does this when it's not Trump and we're not in a sort of cult of personality situation. So can you talk to us about what overemphasizing political victories and losses looks like, and why understanding the kingdom helps you avoid doing that, making that mistake?Our Hope Is Not in Political Victories or Material ProsperityJonathan Walton: Yeah, absolutely. So I think the way the right predominantly does this is using salvific language like, “We are going to save you.” And so there's this identification alliance with right wing rapture theology that says, we just need to be redeemed from the world or going back to something that is more holy, just, beautiful, righteous and good. Usually for White evangelicals, that's around 1958. 1958 was the peak of White evangelical and White American leadership and ownership of all these different things in the United States. And so that reality that many people in the current day White evangelical movement are trying to get back to. 1958 also signals what the left tries to do.1958 was the advent of the civil rights movement coming into the mainstream of the United States when Martin Luther King wrote, when White evangelicals in the United States had to contend with Martin Luther King. So Jerry Falwell writing, segregation or not, like which is it, and then doubling down on segregation. But from 1958 you can begin to see this surging of the rights of women being talked about, the rights of people of color being talked about. Then you get into quote- unquote, the sexual revolution, feminist revolution of the 70s and 80s, like music changing into a way that there's television, things to be broadcast. Folks being shocked that the people they listen to on the radio are people of color, like you start to get this change [laughs].And so what the right says is salvation, the left says is progress. And so pastors and people who push towards more progressivism and politicians who don't read in context like to pull out that piece when Martin Luther King says, the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice. We take that out, and basically what that does is a soft baptism of generational superiority. Meaning that I'm better than the last generation, and the generation after me will be better, when scripture does not say that. Ecclesiastes says there's nothing new under the sun. There have always been people fighting against slavery, oppression, abuse and violence, and there have always been people who are trying to impose those systems, whether they be the Roman government or the American government or the Spartans or the Cretans, it doesn't matter who it is.This has always been the same argument and fight. The Nazis before, the Americans today, Israelis one day, slaveholders another day, Palestinians one day, enslaved Africans another day. The reality is this has always been going back and forth. The invitation has always been the same, to follow Jesus. That's the invitation. There isn't a like, “Man, you know what? In 1950, it was really bad.” That's what progressives would say, “But we've come a long way, and we're continuing forward, onward and upward.” And then conservatives would say, “Oh, man, you know it used to be this way. Let me go back to my little town and…” but both of those are salvation narratives that actually don't leave us saved. They don't. Jesus is the only way.They don't leave us saved, because the salvation of Jesus is ultimate and all encompassing at once. The quote- unquote, safety that moral progressivism or conservatism offers us is for a few, for moments in time. The only thing in my estimation, as an individual that has read a little bit and prayed a lot is the only thing that has been as pervasive and adopted by so many people is colonialism. The idea of White supremacy, the idea that we need to exploit and violate, the idea that we need to extract as much as possible and we deserve to accumulate at an unfettered pace, that is pervasive across cultures, backgrounds and narratives. That has been carried everywhere even more so than the gospel.And so I would hope that the salvation of all things through Christ would be as comprehensive and fierce as the salvation through works. So it's life, liberty and pursuit of property slash our own comfort equals happiness, or take up your cross, deny yourself and follow me, they are fundamentally opposed to each other.Sy Hoekstra: That was good and deep, and I love it. Let me drill down for a second on the progressivism, because I think some people would hear you say, and you've explained this a little bit, but I mean, some people hear you say, things haven't gotten better, or things took off in some fundamental and helpful way in the 60s, that that's not something that we should think of as salvation. And they might kind of go, “What does he mean by that? I don't know. That's a little…” Because I know you are saying things have gotten better.Jonathan Walton: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: Like, obviously, there are people who materially did a whole lot better [laughs] after the Civil Rights Movement.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Absolutely. Right.Sy Hoekstra: But what you are saying is, when you are clear-eyed about the amount of harm that the hierarchies and systems of oppression do in this country globally, there are so many things to be concerned about and so many things to deeply lament that the true and good and incredible thing that Black people can vote now [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes, me and you can have this conversation [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, all those kinds of things. Those things are incredible and should be celebrated, and there are just so many other things that are so wrong and terrible.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You're just being clear-eyed about the world as it is.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: Because you can do that, because you're not looking toward a narrative of progressivism to assure you that you are okay.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes. The fundamental container that you and I find ourselves in has improved. That's true.Sy Hoekstra: You and I, like meaning literally you and I.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, me and you. Literally, Sy Hoekstra and Jonathan Walton, the container that we find ourselves in has improved since the lives of our parents. My momma was not born with all of her rights, I was born with all of mine, to an extent in this country. That container has gotten better. The container is still on this side of heaven, which means it's incomplete.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: So can I celebrate, and I do celebrate, the reality that I could go to a bank and get a mortgage and it would be illegal if they discriminated against me and my wife for being people of color, that is awesome. I can celebrate the fact that my wife can get a credit card in her own name, and my daughters will be able to as well. That was something that was illegal. go look it up. I appreciate that. At the same time, let me not be seduced to think that this is the container I was made for because I wasn't. I was made for Genesis 1.Sy Hoekstra: Or seduced into a kind of softer, subtler idolatry of America.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Or the West, or the societies that we live in, or wealth, or whatever it is that you think has made things more comfortable for you.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Good Political Fruit that Comes with Putting Hope in JesusSy Hoekstra: The reason I spent so much time on that is it's a complicated idea, but I think it's important for people to understand, because it really does free you from the problems that inevitably come when you sort of think, let's say Harris gets elected. We're just like, “Oh, good. We staved off Trump, we beat back fascism. We defeated it, hooray.” [laughs] It stops you from looking at the long history of America and saying no, fascism, authoritarianism, like real oppression of people is a normal part of the DNA of this country, and will continue to come back, and we need to continue to be ready to fight it all the time.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: It does not ever go away, and if you want to sit in comfort and say, “Good, we finally did it,” or “I can rest now,” you can't. You're being seduced into something that is not true [laughter]. And also, being clear-eyed in this way also stops you from doing something that people complain about progressives doing all the time, which is show up to your door every four years or every two years, and ask for your vote, and then not do anything to actually fight the oppression that you're under on a daily basis once they're elected [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: If you're clear-eyed in this way, you can fight for people's flourishing 365 days a year…Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: …and every year. What I'm just doing now is talking about some of the good fruit that comes from letting go of these sort of soft political idols that sometimes people have. Because, I think… And the reason I say soft political idols, they're just political idols, but I think people look at the obviousness and the brazenness of the way that people idolize Trump and Christian power in America, and they think, “I'm not doing that in any similar way,” and a lot of us actually are.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: So that's why I'm harping on this.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And two sentences that I hope will help people as well, is that the reason we're saying this too is because what will drive you is actually hope in the right stuff, as opposed to ending up with putting, literally, for me, like my hope in Obama. I remember the posters, like I was excited.Sy Hoekstra: Do you remember that music video?Jonathan Walton: Which one? There were many.Sy Hoekstra: The “Yes We Can” music video.Jonathan Walton: Oh, yes, yes, yes. I do remember that.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah [laughs]. I remember that in particular, I remember you being so excited and emotional about that video, and then later coming back to me and being like, “I should not have cared about that video that much,” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right. But man, it is attractive. Like Lil Jon at the DNC right now is there to seduce a certain group of people [Sy laughs]. And Kid Rock is just, let's swap out Kid Rock. Kid Rock was at the RNC. We have to engage, like you said, clear-eyed, so we know what to put our hope in. Because the gospel is a hope that does not disappoint.What Is God's Good News about Politics, and How Can We Apply It to Our Lives?Sy Hoekstra: Amen to that, Jonathan [Jonathan laughs]. But let's talk about the hope that does not disappoint, because I think the stuff that we've been talking about, if you just stopped there would be a little bit, I don't know, it can be a little bit depressing. If you don't already have this perspective [laughs] it's like, it can be hard.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: It can be hard to deal with being clear-eyed about the brokenness of the world, it's not an easy thing to do [Jonathan laughs]. So let's talk about what actually is the good news about politics that you are trying to get people to see through, through these Bible studies and through this kind of work that you're doing.Question Your Assumptions, and Understand the Connectedness of All PeopleJonathan Walton: Yeah. I mean to what you just said, if we are clear-eyed about the brokenness of the world, I would love for us to be as clear-eyed about the bigness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't think our concept of sin and our concept of redemption is actually mature enough to deal with the problems of the world. And so I think that one, the first session is just what are our starting points? Most of us have been cultured into political discipleship, we've never actually consciously thought about it. And so that's the first part, just where are our starting points? Then we get into the reality that the theology of the kingdom of God, and the theology that we are all made in God's image is a political reality.If I believe that I am made in the image of God, and every single person around me is made in the image of God, then that has political implications, because my flourishing and their suffering, or my suffering and their flourishing, they are actually intertwined. If I actually live out that theology, when they bleed, I bleed, when I bleed, they bleed. That's why the command to mourn with those who mourn is not, it shouldn't be far off, because I'm mourning my own human family, or I'm rejoicing with my own human family. And so that first study gets into that, and then we have, each study has a real-life story, and each study has a testimony about how these things have been applied or wrestled with in the current day.Making Informed Decisions about Whether We Want to Seek God's LiberationAnd so when we get into the choices that the Israelites made in Samuel, they wanted a king. Wrestling with that, oh snap, the Israelites literally said to the Prophet Samuel, we want to be like everybody else.Sy Hoekstra: And sorry, just really quickly for people who are unfamiliar, there's a moment in the book of 2 Samuel, I think, where Israel goes from saying, “We don't want to just be this people of God who kind of live in this promised land and follow these instructions that God gave us, we want to have a king,” which was not part of like God's plan for their society, “The way that all the societies around us have a king, so that we can have kind of similar power and influence the way that they do.”Jonathan Walton: Exactly. And so when Samuel responds, he says, “Your king will be exploitative. Your king will violate. Your king will take your kids. Your king will do all these things.” And they say, “Yes, sign us up.” And so we need to have conversations about what will actually happen when we say, “Yes, we do want this,” instead of what God intends. And then make concrete decisions about, do we actually want that, and what are the implications? And then if we do decide to follow Jesus, then what does he do and what is his response. When Jesus shows up and says, “I am the Messiah,” out of Isaiah, chapter 61 pulled into Luke chapter 4, the initial sermon is, “I have come to set the oppressed free, proclaim sight to the blind, proclaim freedom for the captives.”He did not say, “I have come to convert you to a certain political ideology, a certain political party or platform.” He didn't say that because he literally says, the kingdom of God is not of this world. And so how do we see that as good news as followers of Jesus? And do we see that as good news in the context we're in today? And then finally, if we do see that as good news, how do we partner with God to actually participate as followers of Jesus in seeking the shalom of all the people around us? Because we do live as followers of Jesus in exile. Now, we are different from the Israelites because, friends, we are not disempowered as Americans.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: I have an American passport, which puts me in a fundamentally different political bracket than my brothers and sisters who are undocumented, than my human family that suffers under drone strikes. It's different. But at the same time, I can hold fast to the reality that how can I steward my power, my influence, my resources, towards the flourishing of all people, not just myself, which is resisting the gospel of Babylon. And so we have, one of my favorite people in the world is Connie Anderson, and she talks about how she was one of those White women in a midwestern state who had no idea who she was voting for and why. But then she goes to a board meeting at the invitation of someone to really get involved in local politics, and she realized the person that she was voting for had dementia, and he was on the city council voting for things, arguing for it in one minute, and then some time would pass, arguing against it in another minute.And then when someone said, “Hey, didn't you just say the opposite?” Then shout at them, “Don't try to tell me what I think.” And she said, “The only reason I voted for this person was because I recognized their name.” And she began to get involved, and now she leads workshops on anti-racism, trying to help White people do the work of deconstruction, not deconstruction of their faith, but a deconstruction of the White supremacy in their lives and how they can partner with God towards more redemptive things. And she is doing the good hard work of politics, and not politics from a lens of this world would be better if we get the right person in power, but this world will be better and transformative when Jesus is in power.And so how do I partner with him to reflect his kingdom in the system and structures that I have influence and power over? And besides a lot of the work that we do with KTF, this is probably the thing with InterVarsity that I am most proud of. So I sincerely hope that folks will grab it.We Need to Revolutionize Our ImaginationSy Hoekstra: Absolutely. Go check it out. Thank you for sharing the wisdom from it. And I especially want to emphasize what you said about, what did you say about our imagination? You said change or, the verb I can't remember [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Oh, bring a revolution in our imagination [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, there you go. That's what you said. I knew it was good [Jonathan laughs]. That is something that I am particularly passionate about, and kind of dovetails into why I spend so much time reading speculative fiction, like sci-fi and fantasy and everything [laughs], because… and thinking about how the people who write those books affect the worlds that we imagine too. That may seem like a weird, random turn into another subject to some people, but it is the way that I exercise my imagination, and I find a lot of the way that God talks to me in that work [laughs]. Like in the ways that I think about how we can imagine really different worlds and other stories that we don't see here now.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: That to me, is extremely important, and I know that there have to be at least some of you who feel that way too.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Sy Hoekstra: So [laughs] I know there are some avid fiction readers out there. Jonathan, we have a segment to get into.Which Tab Is Still Open? Israel's Horrifying Treatment of Palestinian DetaineesJonathan Walton: Yes. Yes, we've talked a lot, and we are still talking as we're going to get into our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, because this is something we're still talking about 10 months later, 76 years later, where we dive a little deeper into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. So Sy, this one is yours, so tell us a little bit about it.Sy Hoekstra: It is mine, although I think I maybe originally got it from you. This is something that we have both been thinking and talking about a lot, so I will just summarize the story very quickly, and then we'll both talk about it for a while. So we're gonna be back on Israel and Palestine. Now, listen everything we just talked about is gonna affect this conversation that we're having now [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: But there have been some horrible whistleblower stories, and I will not get into the details. So hopefully we're avoiding the need for a content warning here. But some horrible whistleblower stories about some things going on, I believe you pronounce it, the Sde Teiman detention center in Israel, which is where basically they're keeping a lot of known or suspected Hamas operatives who attacked on October 7. The allegations are about basically physical and sexual torture, and that's all the detail that I will get into, being regularized and just a part of the culture at this particular detention center. So recently, after a lot of these reports, there were 10 IDF soldiers who were charged by military courts, or nine soldiers and one reservist who were charged by military courts with perpetrating one of these acts of violence.And what followed is something that's a little bit unimaginable to me, until I think about January 6th, which was a series of riots at this detention center of people literally trying to just charge into the detention center and take the IDF soldiers who have been charged and put in detention themselves, and just kidnap them out of the place, just like free them. And these rioters, there were a couple hundred of them. A lot of them were just regular people living in the area. But some of them were actual government administrative workers and some of them, a couple of them were actual members of the Israeli parliament who participated in this riot, and they did not succeed. Like the soldiers are still there.Two of them were let go eventually, meaning, the charges were dropped. Eight of them, the military is actually pursuing the charges against them. There has not been any punishment for any of these rioters [laughs]. Nothing's happened to them. There's been no legal consequences. There was another riot and another base, same thing, no real consequences. I was trying to see if maybe just like the American media wasn't reporting on it, but I used multiple large language models [laughter] to look into whether there were any stories about these rioters and what consequences they face, and it's really been nothing. The members of parliament are still just sitting in parliament.Some people who are not in the government, who are in the opposition parties have called for investigations, but nothing has happened. There were many statements made by different far-right government members of parliament that were in support of the rioters. One person in Benjamin Netanyahu's party, basically stood up in Parliament and said, “I do not care what these soldiers did to Hamas operatives, because anything done to Hamas operatives is legitimate, in my view.” Like there's just no limits. When we say that there's an apartheid in Israel, this highlights kind of what we're talking about, because there is sort of within Israel proper, there is, you can still make some arguments about this, but there is a lot of democratic representation and rights for people who live there.And then in the West Bank, since 1967 there's basically been martial law where a general is in charge and makes all the decisions on behalf of people who live there, with the exception of the Jewish settlers who live there, who still have all the rights, as though they lived in Israel proper. And so there's this kind of weird thing going on where even though this base is in Israel, it is under the jurisdiction of the military. So it's this kind of martial law, I don't know, running into Israel's law in a sort of way that's highlighting some divisions in Israel. Because obviously, there are a lot of people within Israel who are very concerned that this has happened, and that people are going completely unaccountable for it.I mean, some people are literally talking about, I don't think this is a mainstream idea, but there's some people talking about, what if a civil war breaks out in Israel, because there are people who are so against what has happened, but the ruling government coalition is just so in favor of continuing the war at all costs, they're now starting to fight with Lebanon. They may start to fight with Iran. So anyways, those are the basics of the story. Jonathan, what are your thoughts [laughs]?Privilege Marginalized Voices in Your Media So You Don't End UP Believing FalsehoodsJonathan Walton: If you are listening, you've made it this far in the podcast and all those things, I hope you would privilege Palestinian voices and the voices of Jewish activists in your media diet, so that you are not persuaded towards believing what is not true. The reality is Israel, not the people, but the state, is a settler colonial project, and much of this I'm gonna repeat from Munther and other people that I have learned from because I am now trying to privilege their voices. I remember, and I've said this on podcast before, my RA when I was 18 years old, who lived in the West Bank, arguing with a Zionist Jewish young man who lives in Brooklyn and had never been to the West Bank about what it looks like.So you're watching someone from a lived reality argue with someone downstream of propaganda. And so the exact same thing could be true of someone who lives in a segregated Black neighborhood trying to explain how law enforcement works to someone who has never actually dealt with law enforcement in the United States, or a man who is having a conversation with a woman about what it's like to have her rape kit submitted and then it never be tested or run or anything. So just trying to bring things home a little bit in that we have to prioritize the voices of marginalized people in these conversations.Now, that is true all the time, particularly when there is no media or video. And in this particular case, there is video of all of this, similar to George Floyd, similar to Sonya Massey in the United States, there's video of this terrible perpetration of sexual violence, and there's video of the soldiers guarding this action so that people don't see it from the cameras and that it continues to happen, which is why these soldiers were quote unquote, arrested in the first place.What Would It Take for Americans to Wake Up to the Reality of This Suffering?Jonathan Walton: Now, my final thought around this is, which really a question, is like I wonder how desensitized we have become to the suffering of others and made it normal for these types of things to happen. And I wonder what it would take, in Jesus name I pray it is not violence.But I wonder what it would take for us to be awakened to actually do something about it as American citizens, because it is our tax dollars, our money, it's all of us that are funding that. And so those are my thoughts as I consider this, because there's a population of people that is further desensitized running into a population of people as being further radicalized because they are seeing more and more images and media come across their feeds. And my longing and hope is that there would be an awareness of the people who have been so desensitized and propagandized of the pain and suffering of the people who are experiencing deep harm, so that there can be some sort of reconciliation and just peace and a ceasefire and all those things before, not because of a war. That's my prayer.And so, yeah, as I am, [laughs] I'm gonna in Jesus name, be at Hunter College, be at Brown, be at MIT, be in Florida this fall, I'm gonna be talking about that. Having conversations, encouraging people to advocate so that there is a lesser chance of violence. Sy, that was a lot for me [laughs]. What are you thinking and feeling?Dehumanization Always Leads to Horrifying Violence, and Turns Oppressors into MonstersSy Hoekstra: That was very good. The thing that is so frustrating to me is how incredibly predictable this was.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Right.Sy Hoekstra: From the moment October 7th happened, they said, “This is our 911” Okay, This is your Abu Ghraib. This is your Guantanamo. Like we cannot expect to react the exact same way to an attack and not have this happen again. You can't expect to have the same dehumanization and racism against Arabs and not have this happening again. I don't know. It's just so frustrating to me, having grown up with the War on Terror, and just feeling like I'm watching it all over again. And just like it was in America, there's a lot of people in Israeli society who think this is all fine and totally support it.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And we may have done it in a little bit more of a buttoned up way. We might have done it with some lawyers making questionable interpretations of international humanitarian norms or whatever. We might have put the stamp of approval on it of some more powerful forces than they have available to them in Israel, but they're doing the same thing that we were doing. The thing that we need to come away from this is knowing that your dehumanization of other people has real life consequences, and the consequences are both for the victims who experienced horrific things and for the victimizers. Because one of the whistleblowers, when they were talking to CNN, the CNN reporter who doesn't believe this himself, and he put to the soldier, “A lot of people in Israel would say, well, Hamas does way worse than this to our captives. So what's the problem?” And he said, “Hamas is not your bar.” It's like, fine, if you want to be a terrorist organization, go ahead, be a terrorist organization. But you have to recognize that that's the moral decision you're making. You are not better than them, if this is what you are willing to do to them. And your dehumanization of other people at some point will turn you into a monster, is what I'm saying.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And I just, I don't know [laughs]. I'm mad about it because of the horrifying consequences that it has on individual people, so it's a little bit visceral for me, but it is just so frustrating to watch all these things happen all over again and with our same stamp of approval.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And if you want an example of why electing Kamala Harris will not be a victory for all things good and moral, it is because this sort of thing will continue.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.The Church Is Complicit in This TerrorSy Hoekstra: Another thing from Reverend Isaac last week was he really did a good job of emphasizing how complicit in all this the church is. Emphasizing points like, Christian Zionism actually predates Jewish Zionism, and there are actually way more Christian Zionists in the world than there are Jewish Zionists, just the raw numbers.Jonathan Walton: Yep.Sy Hoekstra: And our support of that theology, our creation of that theology, our failure to fight it at every turn, that is what makes us just wholly complicit in what is happening over there. And Jonathan literally, here's the last note that I wrote in our outline: “Hopefully Jonathan has something uplifting to say before we end” [laughter], because I'll be real, I'm not thinking of it right now.Followers of Jesus need to Focus on Doing Small Advocacy out of Deep Love for OthersJonathan Walton: Yeah. So God's good news about politics is what we're talking about. We are talking about the allocation, distribution of resources, and how people have decided to govern ourselves, and what has happened in the United States, if we're just gonna hang out in the container that we're in, that in the United States we have decided with billions of dollars of our tax dollars, that we are going to build, then send, then advise the genocide of another group of people. I do not want the voting and advocacy and time and work that I do to be perpetrating that or be complicit in that. I might be involved because I have no choice not being overruled, but I will not be unopposed or complacent.And so as followers of Jesus, I think we have two options, and Peter did this really, really well. Peter was suffering under the oppression of the Jewish people, just like Jesus was, and Jesus' family and Jesus' friends and all the disciples as they were being occupied by Romans. And Peter thought he was doing the absolute just right, good thing in carrying a knife all the time, so that when Jesus got arrested, he pulled out his sword and chopped off the dude's ear. And this is John 18, the scene when Jesus was arrested. Jesus then picks up dude's ear, puts it back on his head, tells Peter to fall back. And Peter had two options. Peter could have said, “You know what, this sucks. I'm just not gonna do this anymore. Jesus, you're wrong.”He could have done that. He could have said, “You're presenting me with this gospel of hope in the world that is to come, not the world that is right now.” And he could have said, “I'm just going to give up, or I'm going to… look Simon the Zealot, we listen to this dude talk. It's time to start this.” He could have done that, but instead, eventually he got to, “I'm actually going to be the rock of this Church that Jesus said I was going to be,” which is why you and me and so many people listening to this podcast, have decided to follow this man who happens to be God named Jesus, who 12 ordinary men and a bunch of women that we did not name because they too are from a patriarchal society, we know a few of them, like Mary and Mary Magdalene and Dorcas and Phoebe, who decided to say yes, and thousands of years later, we're still talking about them.And so my hope would be that we as followers of Jesus, would say, “Hey, you know what? What small group of people can we do a little bit of revolutionary actions out of a deep, deep love for so that many, many, many years from now, people are still choosing love over fear and violence.”Sy Hoekstra: There we go, Jonathan. I knew you had it. I knew you had it in you [Jonathan laughs]. But I appreciate that, because when I say uplifting, that feels like something I can resonate with even while I'm looking at the horrifying nature of what I'm looking at. That feels like something where you're not sugarcoating it.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, right.Sy Hoekstra: And that's what I appreciate, and that's what I meant by uplifting. I don't want us just to end on a happy note, because you're Christian and you have to or whatever [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Amen, amen.Sy Hoekstra: So thank you so much for all this work that you're doing trying to create those small communities where people love and do good things. We did a lot of work and tried very hard to do it when we were in college, and I appreciate that you're still trying to get people to do the same thing as they go through that time in their lives.Jonathan Walton: Amen.Prayers and Support for Protesting Students Returning to CampusSy Hoekstra: And you and I will be absolutely praying for and supporting in any way that we can the students as they come back to campus and continue to, again as Munther Isaac said, lead the way in ways that the church has been so afraid to do and so unwilling to do.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, exactly.Sy Hoekstra: If you're listening to this, and you're about to go on to a campus [laughs], or you're already on a campus, we are praying for you, and we absolutely cannot imagine, I don't know, just the uncertainty and the strangeness of what you're doing, but we so appreciate it that you are doing it. And if you're not, and you're just choosing to support people in other ways, because there are many reasons to make that decision, then more power to you as well.Outro and OuttakeSy Hoekstra: Okay. We are going to end there. Jonathan, thank you so much. This was a great conversation. I'm really glad that we got to do it. We'll have those Bible studies that Jonathan created in the show notes.Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra. Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess. Editing by multitude productions. Transcriptions by Joyce Ambale. Production of the show, by me and all of our lovely paid subscribers. Please remember, go to KTFPress.com and become a paid subscriber. Get the bonus episodes of this show, as well as access to the monthly Zoom conversations. When you're listening to this we will just have had one, so be sure to sign up for the next one coming in September. Thank you all so much for listening, and we will see you all in two weeks.Jonathan Walton: Bye.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: We are close to the camera. We are ready to go.Sy Hoekstra: Oh, yeah. By the way my camera, I tried so many different things to make it work here in Canada, and there's just nothing to be done.Jonathan Walton: I understand.Sy Hoekstra: So highlight reels from this episode will come from Jonathan Walton [laughs].Jonathan Walton: No worries, yes.Sy Hoekstra: Just make sure everything you say, you look really cool saying it.Jonathan Walton: I do look really great [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: Hey, I'm glad you know that about yourself, Jonathan, I cannot confirm [Jonathan laughs]. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.ktfpress.com/subscribe

Jovanni is joined by Lia Tarachansky, an Israeli-Canadian journalist and filmmaker. Lia shares her journey from being born in Soviet Ukraine to her family's move to Israel and later to Canada, her career in journalism, and her engagement in Palestinian solidarity work. The discussion delves into the complex layers of the Israel-Palestine conflict, systemic discrimination, and the role of media in decolonizing narratives. Tarchansky also speaks about her latest academic work focusing on the use of augmented reality to bring Palestinian history to Israeli consciousness and reflects on the growing anti-Zionist Jewish movements. Main website: https://www.fortressonahill.comLet me guess. You're enjoying the show so much, you'd like to leave us a review?! https://lovethepodcast.com/fortressonahillEmail us at fortressonahill@protonmail.comCheck out our online store on Spreadshirt.com. T-shirts, cell phone covers, mugs, etc.: https://bit.ly/3qD63MWNot a contributor on Patreon? Sign up to be one of our patrons today! – https://www.patreon.com/fortressonahillA special thanks to our Patreon honorary producers – Fahim's Everyone Dream, Eric Phillips, Paul Appel, Julie Dupree, Thomas Benson, Janet Hanson, Ren jacob, and Helge Berg. You all are the engine that helps us power the podcast. Thank you so much!!!Not up for something recurring like Patreon, but want to give a couple bucks?! Visit https://paypal.me/fortressonahill to contribute!!Fortress On A Hill is hosted, written, and produced by Chris ‘Henri' Henrikson, Danny Sjursen, Keagan Miller, Jovanni Reyes, Shiloh Emelein, and Monisha Rios. https://bit.ly/3yeBaB9Intro / outro music “Fortress on a hill” written and performed by Clifton Hicks. Click here for Clifton's Patreon page: https://bit.ly/3h7Ni0ZCover and website art designed by Brian K. Wyatt Jr. of B-EZ Graphix Multimedia Marketing Agency in Tallehassee, FL: https://bit.ly/2U8qMfnNote: The views expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts alone, expressed in an unofficial capacity, and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. government.

Temim Fruchter discusses her debut novel, City of Laughter, the Jewish folklore and queer joy that informed it, the circular/non-linear structure to be found in Jewish folklore and in her novel, writing in different timelines and generations, hosting Pete's Reading Series, ultrafemme queerness, and more! Temim Fruchter is a queer nonbinary anti-Zionist Jewish writer who lives in Brooklyn, NY. She holds an MFA in fiction from the University of Maryland, and is the recipient of fellowships from the DC Commission on the Arts and Humanities, Vermont Studio Center, and a 2020 Rona Jaffe Foundation Writer's Award. She is co-host of Pete's Reading Series in Brooklyn. Her debut novel, CITY OF LAUGHTER, a New York Times Editors' Pick, is out now on Grove Atlantic. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Janey Stone is an anti-Zionist Jewish author and activist. She is the coauthor with Donny Gluckstein of a new book, "The Radical Jewish Tradition: Revolutionaries, Resistance Fighters and Firebrands". The claim of Israel and its apologists to represent Jews everywhere and the growth of the antisemitic far right, make understanding and celebrating the long history of left-wing and working class Jewish activism essential for leftists today.  Chloe sat down to talk to Janey about her book and the relevance of its arguments for activsts and socialists today. Janey's work has done much to uncover the radical Jewish tradition. Before the Second World War the majority of Jews were working class and part of a wider struggle alongside their non-Jewish comrades on the left. The book celebrates Jewish radicalism from the Tsarist Empire to Poland and Germany, from London to New York. Far from the Zionist stereotype of the ultimate victims, Jews were revolutionaries, resistance fighters and firebrands. This inspiring radical tradition was ultimately checked by the callous indifference of capitalist governments to refugees and the horror of Auschwitz. However, its lessons must be passed on to inform working class and anti-imperialist struggles in a world in crisis. Buy Janey Stone's book: "The Radical Jewish Tradition: Revolutionaries, Resistance Fighters and Firebrands" Available online at Red Flag Books     

Joku and Rosa discuss the latter's number one movie of 2023 - The Zone of Interest. In the film, Jonathan Glazer gives an impactful depiction of the life of SS Officer Rudolf Höss and his family, who live in the "zone of interest" (officer villas) next to Auschwitz-Birkenau.Instead of a link to any sort of humorous image, here is a link to donate to Jewish Voice for Peace, an anti-Zionist Jewish organization fighting for an end to the apartheid and ongoing genocide within occupied Palestine: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/contribute/?sourceid=1002270Cutaway and outro music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbM8VSYsRGo&list=PLRZ3zTtxMpp6TnIq8OZR8i6YjxnOzCU32&index=23Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/CumpostingPodcastFollow Rosa: https://linktr.ee/reddestrosaFollow Joku: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6MqDAGSrKEVBzHtgBBbT0wOur Podcast Artist is the incredibly talented Vero (she/they) of Praxisstvdio who you should check out here: https://linktr.ee/praxisstvdio

Episode Summary This week on Live Like the World is Dying, Margaret and Dean continue to talk about the ways that mutual aid helps communities prepare for disasters that are already here and disasters that have yet to come. They talk about what things like hope and success can look like even as the world crumbles around us. Guest Info Dean Spade is an American lawyer, writer, trans activist, and associate professor of law at Seattle University School of Law. You can find Dean's work at Deanspade.net, and you can read the article that Margaret and Dean talk about, "Climate Disaster is Here--And the State Will Never Save Us" on inthesetimes.com. You can also find Dean on Twitter @deanspade or on IG @spade.dean. Host Info Margaret (she/they) can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Transcript Live Like the World is Dying: Dean Spade on Mutual Aid as Preparedness pt. II **Margaret ** 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy, and this is part two of a conversation with Dean Spade. So I should probably listen to part one, but I'm not your boss. This podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchist podcasts, and here's a jingle from another show on the network. **Margaret ** 00:42 Okay, I have a kind of final-ish question, I think. And it can be "ish" on the final part. But at the beginning of this, you said that your politics have been moving towards anti-statism, or, you know, possibly anarchism, or whatever. And I'm wondering if you want to talk about that. In some ways, I feel like you've implied a lot of maybe what has drawn you more towards those politics, but I'm really curious about the kind of route you took--not like where you've landed, and what labels you want to throw on things--but what has led you towards those politics? **Dean ** 01:56 I just talked with somebody yesterday who I know from the anti-Zionist Jewish world who was talking about the. . . about how he feels like people haven't thought. . . that he hasn't thought a lot about anti-State or anarchist politics, and he was like, "Why do you think some people haven't and some people haven't?" and I was like, "Oh, I think people just come to our politics. Like, we just kind of stumble into them." It's like, if somebody stumbled into a punk scene in 1999, they probably found anarchism sooner than me. I stumbled into all this queer, anti-police stuff, and we were doing a lot of identity-based work, and people weren't talking about political tendencies in the same way--in part also, because it had been really divisive, at certain points, in our movements where people had gotten so obsessed with their ideology that they'd been able to work together and got really insular. So there was a lot of, I think, push away for some people from that. I think, also, we have lived in times for the last, at least 100 years, that are so deeply reactive anti-anarchist, in particular, because of the history of anarchism in the US and elsewhere. There's a really great piece by William C. Anderson that came out a while--like not that long ago--after the Atlanta indictment about how policing in the United States itself developed through policing anarchism, that I highly recommend. But anyway, I think a lot of us also just haven't gotten. . . Like, it's like you were told, "Anarchists are just people who want chaos and who are dirty white people," or whatever. There's a lot of things that erase the contributions of anti-colonial anarchists and anarchists who aren't white in all these things. Anyway, Or, anti-State tendencies that aren't anarchism in the European sense. But for me, I think what happened is that I've been in movements that have been benefiting from a range of genealogies, including women of color feminism--specifically Black feminism--and other political knowledges and methods that have been anti-institutional, in really great ways have had critiques of the borders and the cops and the military have also had a focus on practices of collectivity and horizontality with us, you know, inside our movements, which are very. . . You know, that really parallel with a lot of anarchist methodologies like "Let's not have a boss in this group," you know? And so all of those things really dovetail with anarchism, but I wasn't ever studying anarchism itself. Some people who were in groups I was in maybe identified as anarchists, but it didn't seem like an essential thing for me to study for a number of years. And I didn't think a lot about whether or not that was my position, because also I just had the same caricatures in my mind that other people did. And I also was like, "Do anarchists think that people shouldn't get welfare?" I don't know. I had some of my own, you know. As somebody who grew up on welfare, I had some questions about that, that I didn't have resolutions to. And then over time, especially doing abolitionist work, it just was so clear to me more and more not only that everything I was already doing dovetailed with anarchism: my interest in mutual aid, my interest in horizontal tactics inside our groups, and building group culture where we learned how to share with each other, and not boss each other around, and all that stuff. But also, the ways in which, I think, abolitionist frameworks are just. . . like, they're so deeply anti-State. It's like, 'Yeah, don't build a better cop. Don't build a better jail. Don't build a better prison. Don't build a better social services framework that's actually still a cop," or you know. And, that you can't have a country without cops, borders, and military. That's what a country is made of, you know? You can't have a Capitalist economy without a boot on everybody's neck making us participate in it. So I just came to realize like, I'm not only--I always knew I was against the United States settler colonial slavery project--but I was like, "Oh, my God, I'm against countries. I'm against that." And then I did start actually reading about this stuff and I was like, "Oh, my God, they're a recent invention. They don't need to be able to organize themselves. That's not how people have always organized themselves." And I also started to see how it actually makes a difference in our tactics about what we're going to do today, if we know this about ourselves, right? Like how we're going to get basically co-opted by projects of "Oh, let's let's do a let's do a million local elections and try to take over a city council 'thing.'" A lot of that work steals the oxygen out of local movements really intensely. And I'm not gonna say it should never ever be done, but I just feel like so much of it actually has a lack of a conversation about what can happen in those spaces behind it and then is incredibly resource intensive and doesn't lead to the things I think people hope it will lead to, like, "Oh, we're gonna have an abolitionist prosecutor and abolitionist city council person or mayor and it's gonna change everything," right? And then not seeing that happen. I think we've seen that it's played out. Or the, you know, I think this is even sharpened for me with the period of the "Defund [the police]" work--which I care a lot about, trying to defund the police--and seeing the fights inside city councils and how deeply impenetrable--like even when you supposedly, in 2020, get the whole city council saying we want to defund the police and there's so much effort on that side--it's like our cities are run by real estate developers, chambers of commerce, and police departments. And the entire apparatus of the city councils--which is in some ways more accessible than any other level of government, of course--is still unmovable. Like you can't. . . you can be right all day long. You can do every kind of research. You can show you can turn up with all the people every single time. And as soon as they can turn around and reestablish their nonstop march to constantly increase the police budget, that's what they'll do. And that is what they have done since 2020 after all this amazing work by so many people. So I think I'm just continually evaluating "Wow, where are there still parts of my own approach to politics that are assuming we can convince governments of things?"--even while I want to get rid of those kinds of governments--and why do I ever think they will voluntarily put down their weapons? And why do I think about getting any different people inside there, inside that machine? I don't believe that about the military. I'm not like, "Well, maybe if Margaret Killjoy was the general, it would all be fine." I know, that's not true. So why do I, and where have I still. . . And I, you know, I forgive myself and all of us. We're all just trying shit our whole lives. And there's so many things I've been involved in that I think were not that generative, but you know, we couldn't have known that. Or, where there was a backlash so that the thing that was generative for a while stopped or, you know, was turned on us in a way that undermined our hopes. But I think that for me it's just an ongoing deepening with different anti-State frameworks, an ongoing deepening of reading history, and understanding why different revolutionary projects that then took on State forms became authoritarian, trying to understand what this kind of insight--which is very hard, because it's about letting go of a lot of hope and a lot of tactics that people are putting a lot of effort into--like, what it directs us to do to most immediately support people's well being, and take down the apparatuses that are hurting us that are, honestly, just like continuing to grow. Like they're all. . . Like the level of surveillance we are under right now compared to five years ago. Like, the capacity for political repression that the State has right now compared to five years ago. I don't know if you saw this, but like-- maybe it was this week--Georgia is going to outlaw bail funds, is going to criminalize bail funds. Tennessee's trying to do the same thing. Like, tiny things we have in our movements to try to support people facing repression, even those they are directly going after. So, yeah, it's really hard to face these conditions. And also, I see a lot of people working really hard on the ground blaming themselves for the effects of the conditions like "Oh, why can't we? Why can't we do a better job stopping these homeless sweeps in our city?" It's like it's not because you're not doing a really good job trying to. There are a lot of really bad conditions. And I think that it goes back to this humility, like, "Okay, wow, things are so dire. What if I let myself know this so that I could talk with my friends about what's possible--given how things actually are--and let go of some of the fantasies?" I think I talked to you briefly before we started the podcast but I recently rewatched those two videos that Naomi Klein and Molly Crabapple--both of whom I really, really respect--made a few years back. They're both videos about what the world could be like after the Green New Deal and after many wonderful uprisings. And they feel so, so misleading to me, watching them right now. Like they imagine a world in which people just protest a lot. And then everyone has things that are better. And also, we still have countries and jobs. It very weirdly doesn't get rid of Capitalism or the nation state. But it's like, there's a kind of like. . . I think that it's very dangerous, those fantasies, that we can do certain kinds of tactics and our opponents will just turn over. And I think those are inside a lot of people's--a lot of very wise people's--messages. And I just increasingly, when I encounter them, feel much more concerned about what they teach us and how they mislead us. **Margaret ** 11:00 I just think that we have to always look clear-headedly at what our actual threats are, at what's actually happening, and then make our decisions based on how to actually address that, rather than being like, "I want to become just like this person I read about in history, so I'm going to do whatever they did." And this could be true of, "I want to be a principled pacifist and get arrested just like Gandhi," or whatever, right? You know, it could also be, "I want to be just like the following anarchist in the 1880s who decided it was time to start shooting people," you know? We just need to actually look at what's happening and make our decisions based on that. And it's hard, because what we're facing is different from what anyone else has ever faced in history. Not necessarily worse--although the overall ecosystem is worse than anything minus whenever all the. . . you know, before humans evolved, and various other mass die offs that have happened or whatever. But it's different and it's bad. And we just need to look at it and then come up with solutions. Or even some of this is, "How do we solve this problem?" And some of it is like, "How do we live with this?" Not accept it but accept that it's going to have consequences on us and that fighting it isn't going to be easy and we might not win. But what are the best tools by which we can fight it, and/or what are the best tools that we can use to live meaningful lives in the process? You know, so that when we inevitably die, at 103 or 33, we can be proud of who we were. You know, and obviously, there's theological or metaphysical considerations into exactly what that process looks like that'll be different for different people. But, you know, I think that that's what to do. **Dean ** 13:06 It's also about not trying to feel better. I think there's just something so intense about how people are like, you know, "If you talk about collapse, it makes me feel bad." And there's an assumption that that will demobilize me. And it's like, actually, Capitalism is like, either feel bad or feel good, you know? And that's not how life is. Life is like, fuck. . . For example, you have a terrible loss and you live with grief. And you also still enjoy this beautiful meal. And you're still grieving. And you're in pain. And being willing. . . or--I see a lot of my students--they're like, "Oh, my God, the things I'm learning in your class, I'm so worried about these terrible things in the world that I didn't know we're going on. This is so awful." And they want to instantly know what to do to feel better. And I'm like, I can't make. . . I don't want you to do things feel better. I want you to do things to try to be part of something and you'll never know if they worked or not. Because that's the nature of it. You don't know what our opposition's next countermove is or whether we'll regret some parts of it, but it's the trying stuff, it's the listening to feedback about what didn't go well or how it hurts somebody else. The goal is connection and belonging with each other and experimentation. And, you know, it doesn't always feel good to receive negative feedback, but often it's like incredibly growthful. It's like feeling good can't be the goal. Feeling, Yes. And sometimes feeling good. And pursuing pleasure, absolutely. But not like, "I want to have a pat" happiness where I don't have to worry or be concerned or be critical. Like of course nobody who sees themselves as radical should be wanting that, but I still think that craving--when it comes to conversations about collapse--where it's like I want the one thing that will make me feel better. Or, people feel that about Gaza. Like, "Oh my God, I just found about about this horrible genocide that's happening. I've not known about this before. I want to be able to go to one action and feel I did something and to then be better and post it on Instagram. And it's like, A) love them for waking up to what's happening in Gaza. I love, love any moment where people become more interested in the wellbeing of all people and stopping violence, and we have to be willing to take in how overwhelming this is, how unmovable the war machine feels, and still take action against it, but not because we're guaranteed that what we did today works, or something. You know what I mean? Like that feels--that simplicity--really cheats us of the really complex position we're actually in, that if we can let ourselves be in it, might allow discernment towards better action, hopefully, you know? **Margaret ** 15:30 No, and I like how you tie that to the way that capitalism makes us think that happiness is the goal. Like, I like happiness. But my goal in life is not specifically to lead a happy life; it's to have a meaningful life and to have as complete of a life as--I mean, every life is complete. And, you know, when you look at. . . Anyone who's ever known a child who's died has had to come to terms with the fact that every life is complete, you know, is a thing that I've been dealing with because of some stuff. And, you know. . . Yeah, the idea that you're just supposed to be happy is some fucking McDonald's shit. You know? And don't get me wrong, seek happiness. Do it. It's great. You know? But yeah, sometimes you just need to accept. . . Like, I want to live a beautiful life and I think that is a different thing, you know? And maybe because I'm like a goth, or whatever, I find a lot of different things beautiful than some other people. But. . . No, I. . . I like that. And it does. It helps get people beyond the like, "Oh, good, I can sleep at night because I went to one protest," you know? And instead, like learning to sit with the discomfort of all these things happening and understanding where we do and don't have agency and. . . Imean, don't get me wrong, people should be going to these protests. You know, if nothing else that are good ways to find the other people who care. **Dean ** 17:04 Yeah, meet other people and try stuff. I mean, I want to live in reality. I want to know that. . . I want to. . . If I've been working on a strategy for 10 years and it has actually not been helping, it's been hurting people, I want to know. I don't want to keep doing it just because my ego is attached to it, or my paycheck. I've seen that a lot in the dilemmas with the [uninterpretable] movements, you know, where I want to. . . Yeah, absolutely, I'm like, be promiscuous about the stuff you try. Go to all the protests. Go to anything. Try anything. But it's that willingness to keep open the possibility that I'm going to get feedback or learn that. . . learn the impacts, or learn my position on the world, or learn how the clothes I'm wearing impact people who made them, or what. . . I just like, I just want to be in reality, and that includes the reality of how unbearably beautiful being alive is, how the entire... how my entire body was structured to receive pleasure from this incredible landscape. That reality too, which is Capitalism also shuts down and tells me to only be entertained by video games and chips, or whatever. You know, I want to live fully in the reality of how beautiful and abundant and gorgeous this life is and how heartbreaking and devastating these systems are, and how little control I have over them. And then, the moments when I do feel a connection, or am of service to something in my community, like how that is--like all of that, you know? But not through the filter of liberalism, that's just like, "I need to find out that I'm a good person. TM [trademarked]," you know? **Dean ** 17:04 Okay, so in that vein, to bring it back to kind of some of the preparedness stuff that you've been writing more about and engaging with more, I was wondering if you want to talk about, like, what do you what is preparedness looking like for you right now? Or, you know, how is it affecting you as much as you feel like talking about anything personal? Like, how is it affecting the kind of decisions that you're making about how you want to live or how you prepare? **Dean ** 18:55 That's such a good question. I mean, in general, my study of collapse is affecting a lot of things for me. I'm thinking a lot about the ethics of the fact that I travel on planes and how to reduce that or eliminate it. And also I don't want to get stuck somewhere really far away from my people when things are bad. So I've been thinking a lot about shifting and changes around that. I've been thinking a lot about how much I want to work a job. What are the other options here? You know what I mean? Just like when will I know that I don't want to do that? Or whatever. I've been writing a book for 10 years that's kind of like a relationships self-help book for radicals, you know, kind of thing, because I've spent so much time in our movements watching people, you know, tear each other in our groups apart with our own unexamined relational patterns that are very, you know, the pattern across the culture. So, I've been writing a book about that. And part of me is like, "At this point, I just need to recognize I'm writing this for pleasure. Like, I don't know that there's time for this to be of any use to anyone," you know what I mean? That's an interesting move to shift from thinking the, you know, probably totally ridiculous fantasy any of us have when we write anything, that people will read this and it will help them do something, and be like, "Or not?" Or I'm just really working on a book for 10 years, just for me...because that's what I did with those 10 years of my life. Okay. Like, that's an interesting move to let go of outcomes even more than ever. And I don't think I ever thought that I would have been terribly impacted by even the little hope of that. **Dean ** 18:55 Yeah, I think just to. . .just to gas you up really quick. I've seen your cultural impact for years now, and it's always been positive. So I appreciate it. But please continue. **Dean ** 20:44 I mean, I think about whether I want to live in the country, whether the cities will be the hardest places to be. And I have friends who have moved to rural places and like really cultivated deep relationships with people, even across political differences in the places they're living. And I'm like, "Huh." And then I think about some really, some really, you know, detailed specific things. Like, if I'm going to live in the country, in the Pacific Northwest where I live, how can I live less near all of the scariest...you know, right-wing neo-Nazis and closer instead to some of the rural people who are a little more like fruits and nuts, you know? So I asked myself that question. I think about what that would look like, you know, off grid? You know, I'm not somebody who can like buy a vacation house or something. So like what kind of off-grid small sort of thing can I do with anybody I know who already has a land project. I think about that. I think about. . .I think I've been thinking a lot about--I think maybe I mentioned this to you--of thinking a lot about doing something like go bag parties even in subcultural scenes in my own town. Like doing things to get more people to talk about disaster and collapse, you know? And if they want to think about it as an earthquake go bag, awesome. That's a danger in Seattle for sure. If they want to think about it like that. You know, like, having people just, I was thinking about, like, how do you make those parties fun? Like, you know, having there be giveaways, having there be like. . . having people bring. . . You know, is it also a clothing exchange? Like, is it a sex toy exchange? Like, I've been just imagining different, you know, what would that look like for my queer-er friends versus what will it look like for people on my block, versus what would it look like with my students? Like, just kind of what would be different. . . what would help different people try it and then also think they could put one on, you know? Like, just how to really--especially because I feel like this podcast is very user-friendly in that way, so I've been really inspired by some of your episodes to think about what are the ways I could take what I love about mutual aid organizing, how I love meeting people, and I love making an event happen, making it welcoming, having people make new friends, and how can that be oriented towards people thinking about preparedness? And how much--some of the questions I've asked myself are--how much would there be any talking and programming at such an event or how much would it just be like, "come and grab this stuff. And here's some printouts of things you could have in your go bag. And here's a pile of bags. And there's a pile of, you know, emergency blankets. And here's a pile of whatever," right? So I've had those kinds of questions about how to do. . . I think that's what's next for me is to actually try on some of that organizing with some people that are actually interested in that. **Margaret ** 23:10 When you do that, can you come back on and talk about how it went? I feel like people will learn from that a lot. **Dean ** 23:15 Yeah, and I'd love to, if other people have tried it--I'm curious--please reach out to me. Curious to hear their experiences. **Margaret ** 23:21 Me and one of my friends who does this kind of work too, we put on a day of preparedness. We did a, you know, where you get. . . There were a bunch of different talks by different people who lived in that area who came and they talked about the projects they're working on. There was someone who was like, "Oh, I'm really into mesh networks." And someone else is like, "Oh, I'm doing things like water collection and rainwater and things like that." And there were multiple. . . There were, I think, a total of maybe about six events at. . . So you could pick between two at any given point, like the way that conferences work, or whatever. And it was, you know, a local food. . . a local food distro did lunch that was free for everyone. But then dinner was a giant potluck. And I've actually never seen a giant potluck work so well as the one that I went to. It was cool. And then there was a big talk that was everyone and it was more in the evening. Some people only came for that. And it was, you know, we used me as sort of a keynote-ish person but then it was. . . Immediately from there. It was a facilitated roundtable of the people who live in that town talking about their needs and how to meet them. And I'm now thinking maybe I talked about this before on the show. I have no idea. And then at the very end, we made a long term food bucket. You know, a mylar bag, rice, and beans thing, which is way easier to do if you buy it all in bulk. And then it was kind of fun. And it was. . . My favorite part about it was that theoretically I was organizing it. And I know how to make the bucket. But I don't know how to necessarily make the 15 people figure out how to make sure that all the food goes evenly to these different buckets or whatever. And people were like, "How do we do that?" and I was like, "Figure it out. I don't know." And then everyone's self organized it and it worked perfectly fine. And then like everyone felt more invested, because they were...everyone was in charge and figuring things out together. And it was like a nice little microcosm of those, those nice moments in so many ways. And, you know, and then it was. . . I would say a good third of the people didn't have any money--and so didn't pay for their buckets--and a good third of the people were like, "I can easily pay twice as much as what this bucket cost," you know, because those buckets, if you make your own are only like 20 bucks. If you buy them at a prepper store--if you buy them at a reasonable prepper store, they're 50 bucks--if you buy them from Alex Jones and all that shit, then they're not very good and they're way more than that. And so that worked, that model works really well. And we're hoping to replicate it. And so, but I really like the way that you're talking about it. I really like the idea of like, yeah, how would it be different? How would the go bag party be different for your block versus your students versus your queer friend group, but I'm fascinated. I want to hear how it goes. **Dean ** 26:07 Yeah, I love what you said about people having to figure things out. I noticed this a lot when we had that police free zone in Seattle during the 2020 uprising, how many people who showed up who'd never done anything political in their life. they've never, ever, ever, and they like to come to it. Like they're coming to the movement. And they arrived at the field, at Cal Anderson Park, and they wanted something to do, you know? They wanted to do part of an art build, or they. . . Like people don't want to just sit and watch, you know? And then once you are a part of doing something, you're helping move a barricade--whatever--then you're like, it's like a transformative. Like, "I was there and I was part of it. And I was important to it." It lets you have it be your...it's your identity, instead of "I went and watched the movement," you know? Whatever it is, I just thought that moment, when you said--"agency" is the word you use earlier--I feel like that you can. . . that can happen anywhere. But part of the way it happens is not like overly babying, you know, everybody. You know, yes, making things accessible and trying to make it really welcoming, but also putting people to work if they're up for it helping coordinate, you know? **Margaret ** 27:11 This actually goes full circle to something we were talking about at the beginning. We were talking about how we talk about disasters with people, right? And the note, the words that I wrote down in my notes that I take while I'm interviewing people, is I wrote down "disaster fatigue," because that's the. . . like the way that I think about it, you know, the. . . The way that I. . . A long time ago, I did forest defense and I would go sit in trees and fight against clearcutting and stuff like that. But I, I actually avoided going to West Virginia and fighting mountaintop removal for a long time, even though I knew it was happening, because it was too much of a problem. A clearcut is something that is a horrible crisis. And you can wrap your head around it even as people kill ancient trees. The Appalachians are like older than air, or something. I don't even know. They're old as shit. They are some of the oldest mountains in the world, right? And, the fact that people were clearcutting the mountain, like blowing up the mountain, was just too much. I couldn't wrap my head around it. And so I just didn't think about it. And I think that overall, that's what people do with climate change. There's big, major things that are happening, that are really big. And I'm not trying to say that other crises that are happening aren't really big. Climate change is the mother of all crises. You know? It is the most existential threat to all life on Earth that has existed since there was sentient life. And I'm not just including humans in that, you know? And, so people don't want to think about it. And I think that makes sense. And I think that the people who put in the work to be like, "Hey, come to Mountain Justice Summer Camp, or Spring Break Camp or whatever, and made these spaces where people could show up and learn about what was happening and get engaged. I think that maybe climate change. . . Yeah, it's the. . . Have people show up and give them something to do or tell them that work needs doing and that they can figure out what to do, you know? But we kind of, as a movement, a little bit too much are like, "I don't know, just figure it out." Because then the current people who like making. . . There's actually some people doing amazing work. There's a lot of people fighting pipelines and there's people fighting extraction. And I'm not even like mad at the people who like throw food at paintings or whatever, but it's not something that invites a lot of people in--from my perspective. I'm not. . . Honestly, I try not to talk shit on tactics. I try to be like...I try to do the "more stuff" model of critique where instead of talking shit on their tactic, I should do a different tactic. And what am I doing? I mean, whenever. I'm running around trying to help people get prepared. I actually think I'm doing a lot. But anyway. I just got excited about what you were saying. **Dean ** 30:11 Yeah, that thing. I mean, it's like. . . I think a lot about how the Young Lords said--you know, who are. . . they're fighting Puerto Rican liberation in the 1970s and modeled themselves after the Black Panthers. And they said in their early texts, you know, that they believed that their own people seeing their people fight in the streets with the cops would radicalize people. So that like having escalated tactics--and this is similar to the Ireland story you told--escalated tactics, confrontational tactics, liberals will tell us we're going to alienate people. . . What did you say? **Margaret ** 30:44 Setting fire to trash on the streets. I really like the Young Lords. **Dean ** 30:47 Yeah, like, escalated tactics don't alienate people, they bring a lot of people in. And the people who think they're alienated from them might feel scared of them and stuff, but the cultural shift and change that they produce still brings people along. In the end, they're like, "Oh, no, no, I'm not racist," or whatever, you know? It's like it moves everyone. It moves the needle. And so I think we need escalated tactics and we need invitations and inroads. And for a long time, I've said I think mutual aid is one of the best on ramps, and historically has been one the best onramps for movements. **Margaret ** 31:16 Absolutely. **Dean ** 31:17 Most people get involved in movements through trying to immediately help somebody, you know, because that's what. . . when you're fired up, that's what you want, or because they got help through a mutual aid project of some kind and that's what politicized them. They're like, "Who are these people who are giving away this thing that I need that I can't get anywhere else," you know, "Who are not mean to me and who tell me it's not my fault, and that, actually, the system's fucked, huh? What are they saying? And they're right," you know? So that, I believe deeply in the mutual aid onramp. And I also think that moments like riots and stuff can be an onramp when people are like, "I'm joining in. And now I'm burning a cop car," and that feeling that kind of power. And then, "I want to learn more about who these people were, who I met in the streets," or whatever. And for some people, the on ramp is that they first encounter. . . I mean, I have a friend who's a really incredible anarchist organizer who does really massive mutual aid projects, and is just so brilliant, and told me that they're. . . they first were like. . . they joined the Bernie campaign. And then we're really involved in the Bernie Sanders campaign and then we're like, "Wait, I don't know if this is really working," you know? But like, everyone comes in somehow, you know? And so part of it too, is that we should be in all those places trying to encourage people to learn more about movement history or horizontal tactics or bold tactics that are. . . I just went to an amazing event at an anarchist space in Seattle called Pipsqueak. The event was surrounding. . . they had collected all these accounts of kind of sabotage and vandalisms and shut-down types of actions related to opposing the genocide in Gaza. So many stories I hadn't heard, you know? They collected this huge amount. They had this really wonderful hour of like, you could come and read this zine they'd printed out with all this stuff and think it through, and then a really, really well facilitated discussion for an hour and a half. And I was like, that's like. . . Like, making sure people can find out about the rad stuff that's happening, that's not going to be reported in the news. That's so cool. And also then people got to discuss all their dilemmas about tactics. Like, "Oh, my gosh, I've been going to all these kind of more, you know, media spectacle events about Gaza. I thought these things about that. What's it like to learn about these other things people are doing?" You know, people get to have those juicy conversations about what they think about the tactics they're using. **Margaret ** 33:28 I love it. And we talked about twice as long as we thought we were going to and now this is two episodes. So you all listening had to wait an extra week to hear the other half of the conversation. Do you have any kind of last thoughts on preparedness, mutual aid, how your thinking has shifted, all the topics that we've been talking about today? **Dean ** 33:50 Well, the thing that's spurred us having this conversation was that I wrote that piece for In These Times that was about my experience of reading two sci-fi--cli-fi novels--one is "Ministry of the Future," and one was "The Deluge." And I encourage people to read that piece if you want to hear my thoughts on those books. But one of the things that happened from reading those books and then writing about what I thought was a failure of different aspects of those books was how now--I did think about this because you are an amazing fiction writer--like how part of what happens to me now when I read almost any speculative book, any book, that's fiction that takes place somewhat in the future, is I am like, it feels instantly conservative because it never includes collapse, right? Because inevitably they've got us 50 years ahead and there's some AI. Or there's been some disruption from climate stuff. Like, it's never as bad as it actually is. And that is fascinating to me, you know? And they always have all this intense tech development in such books in ways that I like--I really recommend people actually listen to Kelly Hayes podcast episodes about AI. Really useful for me in trying to understand the hubris of the tech sector, and the way they talk about AI and the way they're making people afraid of or hopeful about AI, and how off base it is, and kind of what the deal really is. But anyway, I just want to say that I have historically found speculative fiction to be a vital place for trying to help myself think about crisis and collapse and also now I feel so strongly because I--I think I may have mentioned this to you, once--I've been very moved by this person Jem Bendell, who's like this. . . in many ways, he does not share all of our values. And it's coming from a very different place. But he's this academic kind of whistleblower about how bad climate stuff really is. And he. . . I find myself often like, I find myself going into my own denial about what's happening and retreating from what I know and then I listened to the introduction to his book, "Breaking Together," again to remind myself about the stakes of what I'm living through. And I feel like in some ways I used to use--and I still somewhat use speculative fiction in that way--but I'm just increasingly like. . . even most speculative fiction is telling us the wrong message about how long the systems we live under are going to last and how much they're going to flourish with the technologies that I just don't think is real. **Margaret ** 36:12 You know, what's funny, some of this--a little bit of it--is baked into a problem of writing fiction where if you. . . I've actually gotten--not in trouble with--but I've had editors take out dates in my writing before, right? Because I'll write a short story about a sort of collapse-y world or whatever and I'll be like, "After 2022, when the. . ." because I wrote this in like 2018, or whatever, because I was trying to write on a realistic timeline where I was like, "Oh, the world's not gonna be the same in 2022." And I feel like I was pretty accurate about that, right? But they have to future proof their magazine, right? And so, you know, you don't want to make certain types of claims about the next three years because you want your story to be...to have a shelf life of that long. And so some of it is baked in as a problem in publishing and in science fiction writing. And that said, I think most people. . . Did you ever read that book "Desert," the green nihilist book. . . **Dean ** 37:12 Yeah, I've read like half of it. **Margaret ** 37:15 I haven't read it in a long time. I remember reading it and being like, "Well, this is naively optimistic." [Laughing] **Dean ** 37:23 That's the one where they're like, "7/8ths of people are gonna die." **Margaret ** 37:27 Yeah, I can't even remember exactly. **Margaret ** 37:28 But yeah, it was like climate change isn't going to be stopped, and we have to re-address how things work on a fundamental level. And because where I've been at. . . I don' t know. I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm with you on. . . like, when I read stuff about the future, where it's like, "And then it'll all work." I actually still really like "Ministry for the Future," and maybe actually should have you on just specifically to talk about "Ministry of the Future" at a different point. But it. . . you know, because it's a complicated. . . It's a caveated, "I like this book," you know? **Dean ** 37:28 It's intense. **Dean ** 38:02 That's how I feel about "The Deluge." It's like, I like "Deluge" even though I think it also has the same problem. **Margaret ** 38:06 I haven't read "Deluge" yet. **Margaret ** 38:08 Oh, there's no character development in "Ministry." **Dean ** 38:08 I think it's really worth reading. I think it's way better character development than "Ministry." It's way better. **Dean ** 38:14 Oh god, yeah. "Ministry" is so dry. **Margaret ** 38:17 Kim Stanley Robinson does not write people. Kim Stanley Robinson writes ecosystems. **Dean ** 38:21 Yeah, and "Deluge" really ropes in a lot more of rise in fascism with climate crisis and has characters that are more different class, race, gender than "Ministry" and is just like. . . it's way more compelling, unfolding, even though in the end it still imagined that states will turn around and like fix things. **Margaret ** 38:47 Well, I think there's plenty more we could talk about. And I hope we get to talk about it soon at some point. But in the meantime, how can people find you or your work? Or what would you like people to. . . or if you want to shout out any specific projects that you want to draw attention towards whether they're yours or other people's. **Dean ** 39:07 Mostly everything I do I put on--I mean, I'm kind of bad at it--but I'll put a lot of things at deanspade.net, which is my website where I collect the things I write and the videos and the many things. So that's a pretty good source for the backlog. **Margaret ** 39:23 If people want to read the specific article that we've been talking about, if you just. . . it's called "Climate Disaster is Here and the State Will Never Save Us." But also if you type in--the way I found it just now while we're...when I was trying to come up with the title--I just typed in "Dean Spade, Kim Stanley Robinson," personally, and it came up, you know. But, okay. Anything else? **Dean ** 39:47 Thanks for having me. **Margaret ** 39:48 Thank you. **Margaret ** 39:54 Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, then you should run around screaming that the sky is. . . No, don't do that. You should make bug out bags for your friends or do whatever you want. You should think about. . . Whatever we already told you what we think. But you can also support this show. And if you want to support the show, you can do so by telling people about it. And you can support the show by supporting us financially on Patreon. Do not feel obliged to do it. This is a free show. However, we're incredibly grateful because people's donations are how we manage to pay our transcriptionist, which is very important to us the show is transcribed, and then also our audio engineer. And one day--I keep promising this but we don't know when this day will come--one day, it'll pay the hosts or the guests. But for now it doesn't. And that's okay because, you know, the world works the way it works. You can support us on Patreon by supporting our publisher, which is Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness at patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. And in particular, we would like to thank Ephemeral. Oh, there's new names on here. That's really exciting. Ephemeral. Appalachian Liberal Liberation Library. And they wanted to specifically point--I would never make this--but they specifically pointed out it's Appalachian [App-a-latch-un], not Appalachian [App-a-lay-shun]. That's in the description of how we're going to read this. Portland's Hedron Hackerspace. Boldfield, E, Patoli, Eric, Buck, Julia, Catgut, Marm, Carson, Lord Harken, Trixter, Princess Miranda, BenBen, Anonymous, Funder, Janice & O'dell, Aly, paparouna, Milica, Boise Mutual Aid, theo, Hunter, S. J., Paige, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea Staro, Jenipher, Kirk, Chris, Mic Aiah, and, as always, the immortal, Hoss the dog. And when you support Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness, you're supporting this show and you're also supporting a show called The Spectacle. We renamed Anarcho Geek Power Hour to The Spectacle. And you're also supporting the podcast called Strangers in a Tangled Wilderness and a whole bunch of other projects. So that's that thing where I do the outro and I hope you all are doing as well as you can, and we'll talk to you soon. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co

 Welcome to another iteration of the Monday Breakfast show, presented and produced by Rob Harrison in the studios of 3CR. First up we hear Nasser of the Palestine Remembered show's conversation with David Glanz, an anti-Zionist Jewish activist for refugee rights, and founder of MEAA members for Palestine, about fair and unbiased reporting and safe working conditions for people working in media and entertainment, following the sacking of ABC journalist Antoinette Lattouf. You can listen to the full episode of Palestine Remembered here. Palestine Remembered airs from 9:30 to 10AM on Saturday mornings. Next, from the Yarra Bug show, Chris speaks with Cr Sophie Wade from Yarra City Council, about recent improvements in Yarra including 30km/h speed zones, Transport Action Plan 2023-2033, and their Notice of Motion No. 5 of 2024 surrounding dangers of oversized vehicles. Listen to the full episode here.Following that, we hear Phil Evans of Earth Matters, taking a dive into the renewable energy revolution happening in Australia, and asks: can offshore wind and whales co-exist? To do so Phil speaks with former Threatened Species Commissioner, Adjunct Associate Professor with the University of Canberra's Institute for Applied Ecology, and Dharawal man, Gregory Andrews, along with Dr Pete Gill, CEO and cetacean scientist with Blue Whale Study. Please note this is only an excerpt of the conversation, to listen to the full episode, click here.                                                                                                                               The Federal and Northern Territory governments have announced a $4billion package to improve housing across remote Indigenous communities. The legislation aims to build 2700 homes over the next ten years as well as repair and maintain them. Rob spoke with Jimmy Frank Jupurrurla and Simon Quilty of the Wilya Janta Housing Collaboration to talk about whether the package will deliver meaningful change. On Wednesday the 27th of March Camp Sovereignty to celebrate surpassing the 60-day milestone it reached back in 2006. To commemorate the milestone there will be a dinner, smoking ceremony and community celebration at Camp Sovereignty from 5:30pm onwards. All are welcome.  Songs played: The Revolution Will Not Be Televised - Gill Scott HeronLetting Go - Angie McMahonWhen It Rains It Pours - Thelma PlumStay - The Waifs 

Nasser provides commentary on complicity in genocide, the policy backflipping of governments, and ongoing ethnic cleansing using starvation as a weapon, as Palestinians in Gaza reach 161 days of displacement and death post Oct 7, 2023.  Nasser then speaks with David Glanz, an anti-Zionist Jewish activist for refugee rights, and founder of MEAA members for Palestine, about fair and unbiased reporting and safe working conditions for people working in media and entertainment, following the sacking of ABC journalist Antoinette Lattouf.   Write a letter to David Anderson, ABC Managing Director, insisting on Antoinette Lattouf's reinstatement. Managing Director of the ABC GPO Box 9994 Sydney NSW 2001Email: david.anderson@abc.net.au Rally: No AUKUS! No War! PEACE!, Sat 16 Mar, State Library Victoria, 1pmXR Mass Slow March for Climate, Sat 16 Mar, Treasury Gardens, 2pmFree Palestine Melbourne rally this Sunday 12pm at State Library Victoria. For updated info on upcoming events and actions, head to instagram.com/freepalestinemelb. 

UCSB's chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) recently formed. KCSB's Zoha Malik spoke with two JVP representatives to learn more about the organization's mission and their pro-Palestinian advocacy.

Joining Mike Klonsky on this edition of Hittiing Left is Rabbi Brandt Rosen of the Chicago anti-Zionist Jewish congregation, Tzekek, and Yonatan Shapira, an Israeli former military helicopter pilot.

Jacques and Jennifer talk about the history of the idea and establishment of a Zionist Jewish state.They begin with the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE, and cover developments in the 1800s and 1900s up to the turbocharging of the idea by a colonialist British Empire looking out for its own interests in the middle east. They cover the devastating developments in 1948 and again in 1967 with Palestinian people cleared off their land to make way for establishment and expansion of the State of Israel.While the colonising parties have changed, the colonial enterprise continues to this day, along with the perennial 'elimination logic' applied to indigenous peoples who get in the way.ReferencesOctober 2023 Interview with Ilan Pappé    https://znetwork.org/zvideo/crisis-in-zionism-opportunity-for-palestine/ May 2023 Ilan Pappé   https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/palestine-was-destroyed-in-12-months-but-the-nakba-has-gone-on-for-75-years/ https://archive.org/details/ten-myths-about-israel-by-ilan-pappe-2017 https://www.mo.be/en/interview/where-does-violence-middle-east-end-it-form-colonialism-becoming-more-extreme Arthur Neslen Occupied Minds: A Journey through the Israeli Psyche  Pluto Presshttps://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-01-31/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israelis-post-october-7-humility-is-gone-the-arrogance-is-back/0000018d-60b3-d6d3-a98d-ecff5b600000 Catherine L., ‘De Palestijnse kwestie: een koloniaal probleem?', in Catherine L., Wim De Neuter en Chomsky N., De Palestijnen: een volk teveel?, Berchem 1988Catherine L., Palestijnen. Geschiedenis van een kolonisatie, Berchem 2017Shlomo Sand The Invention of the Jewish People (Verso Books, 2009)

Welcome to What Matters Now, a weekly podcast exploration into one key issue shaping Israel and the Jewish World — right now. This week we're bringing excerpts from a Behind the Headlines video interview with author and journalist Yossi Klein Halevi, conducted exclusively for our Times of Israel Community. A senior fellow and the Hartman Institute in Jerusalem, Klein Halevi is the author of books including, “Letters to My Palestinian Neighbor” and “Memoirs of a Jewish Extremist.” Drawing on themes from both of those books, as well as his other work, we asked Klein Halevi to answer five big questions about the war. We touch on topics including, what "Never Again" means to Israelis today and how the Jewish community should relate to the anti-Zionist Jewish youth protesting on university campuses. So this week, we ask thinker Yossi Klein Halevi, what matters now. What Matters Now podcasts are available for download on iTunes, TuneIn, Pocket Casts, Stitcher, PlayerFM or wherever you get your podcasts. IMAGE: Author Yossi Klein Halevi (Shalom Hartman Institute)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is the second part of our collaboration with Jessie and Elana from Making Mensches! This time, we exploree the roots of their politics and development as explicitly anti-Zionist Jewish educators. We wish to connect this to a broader discussion: How should diasporists relate to Zionism? How does it differ from Anti-Zionism?As mainstream discourse has become hyper-polarised, we are excited to continue and expand this collaboration in the hope of modelling and fostering a culture of critical and constructive dialogue.A MASSIVE THANK YOU to Jessie for editing this episode for us - it would have been very difficult to get out on time otherwise!Endless gratitude to Aly Halpert for continuing to let us use her music for our intro and outro, check her out: open.spotify.com/artist/5ilJZ0nHG41CYddwNuP3f6?si=EH0Uy2JATLK0w-x-IAIIRASupport our work on Patreon with as little as 1$ a month! patreon.com/TheJewishDiasporistYoutube: / @thejewishdiasporistInstagram: instagram.com/thejewishdiasporistpod/?hl=en

Our main segment in this episode is an interview with Daniel Taylor, an anti-Zionist Jewish socialist and regular contributor to Red Flag newspaper.  Daniel and Emma talk about why the mainstream media are so aggressively pro-Israel. From the Murdoch press to the state-run ABC, the mainstream media dehumanises the Palestinians and helps cover up Israeli war crimes. We go through all their tricks, double standards and hypocrisies, and try to explain why the media landscape is so homogenous when it comes to Israel.  But first up, Chloe and Emma discuss the recent resurgence of anti-refugee rhetoric in Australia. With the High Court overturning a decade-old legal precedent which held that refugees could be detained indefinitely - Australian politics has once more descended into a hysterical anti-refugee race to the bottom.  -------------------------------- Further reading "The mainstream media are pro-Israel propaganda" by Daniel Taylor in Red Flag  "Why journalists must speak out about Gaza" in Red Flag 

Yaakov Aharon and Shula Kirovsky's lives in Sydney's famous beach suburb of Bondi were lived largely separate from mainstream society, within the Chassidic sect of Chabad. Their families' lifestyles were a world away from the fashionable bikini and boardshorts-wearing demographics usually associated with the area. Though Yaakov disconnected himself from the sect's beliefs while he was still quite young, as a teenager he remained keen to join the Israel Defence Forces. Shula disengaged from her religious upbringing at the age of 19, when she was told it was time for her to get married.Today, both Shula and Yaakov are involved with the Tzedek Collective, an anti-Zionist Jewish group currently attending Sydney's pro-Palestine rallies every Sunday in Hyde Park and calling for a permanent ceasefire in Gaza. For this episode, they share a selection of their experiences, including some of the things that changed their perspectives from the ideology they were brought up to believe in.Episode page here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.Links:Tzedek Collective — website, Facebook, Twitter/X, InstagramThe Shock Doctrine — by Naomi Klein, Penguin Books, 2007 Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jewish Anti-Zionist in Palestine + Antifascists Repressed in Budapest [caption id="attachment_6854" align="alignleft" width="300"] Download This Episode[/caption] This week's show features four segments: an announcement from IGD Podcast; an anti-Zionist Jewish voice from Palestine; an interview of two anti-repression activists on the harassment of two antifascist activists in Budapest, Hungary; Sean Swain's segment. https://traffic.libsyn.com/thefinalstrawradio/tfsrpodcast-20231119-AntiZionistBudapest.mp3 Reflections of an Jewish Anti-Zionist from Palestine First up, we're featuring the voice of a Jewish anti-Zionist anarchist living in lands occupied by the Israeli state. We speak about some of his experiences of trying to resist the ongoing war against Palestinians, collaboration with Palestinian comrades against the occupation, the silencing of dissent during the escalation by the Israeli state and other topics. [ 00:07:28 - 00:50:13 ] For a very thoughtful series of podcasts about the situation in Palestine, check out the two recent episodes of the Its Going Down podcast (1st and 2nd). Palestinian Social Media Suggestions: Basel Adra: https://instagram.com/basilaladraa Ali Awad: https://instagram.com/ali_awad98 Sami H Huraini: https://instagram.com/samihuraini Youth of Sumud: https://instagram.com/youthofsumud Awdah Hathaleen: https://instagram.com/awdah.hathaleen Antifascists Repressed in Budapest Following this, you'll hear a segment by A-Radio Berlin (a co-member of the Channel Zero Network as well as the A-Radio Network with The Final Straw) about repression of antifascists recently under the far right Hungarian administration of Victor Orban. This also appeared in the November 2023 episode of Bad News, the monthly English-language podcast of the A-Radio Network. [ 00:52:10 - 01:05:53 ] Further links https://budapest-solidarity.net/ https://www.basc.news/ Sean Swain Sean Swain's segment this week airs at [ 01:05:57 ] . ... . .. Featured Tracks: We Roll (Instrumental) by Pete Rock from We Roll Until Palestine Is Free by Angelic Upstarts from Bullingdon Bastards

David Fields talks to Steve about “Economists for Palestine,” the statement released by the Union for Radical Political Economics (URPE). They emphasize economists' responsibility to take a stand against the genocide being perpetrated against the Palestinians. They look at the connection between Zionism and the global capitalist system, debunking misinformation while highlighting the difference between antisemitism and anti-Zionism.We at Macro N Cheese urge our listeners to circulate the statement. https://urpe.org/2023/11/08/economists-for-palestine/Economists for PalestineWe stand in unwavering solidarity with the Palestinian people. Since October 7th, 2023, over two million people have faced a brutal onslaught by the Israeli military and state. They have been forced to flee with nowhere to go as homes, shelters, evacuation routes, border crossings, hospitals, places of worship and entire neighborhoods have been bombed.We mourn civilian deaths in both Israel and Palestine. Israel's retaliation for the October 7th incursion continues, however, and over 9,000 Palestinians have been killed in the ongoing assault so far. More than 8,000 people have been killed in three weeks in Palestine. The estimated number of children among the casualties is over 3,000 and UNICEF estimates that about 420 children have been killed or wounded daily. Even reporters have been threatened with violence or killed.Since the Nakba 75 years ago, the Palestinian people have endured profound suffering, forced displacement, and a brutal 16-year-long inhumane siege and blockade in Gaza. Human rights organizations have characterized Gaza as ‘the largest open-air prison'.We also condemn the role of the U.S. state in supporting the ongoing siege in Palestine, its support for the horrors inflicted on Gaza, and its refusal to support a humanitarian ceasefire. It is imperative that we do not turn our backs on the devastating impact of this violence on people's lives. The fight for Palestinian liberation and a fair, enduring peace in the region is intricately linked with the liberation and resistance efforts spearheaded by indigenous, colonized, and oppressed communities historically and worldwide.We stand in support of efforts by the Palestinian people to sustain themselves economically through control over their land and their labor. We stand in solidarity with the anti-Zionist Jewish communities that have been raising their voices against the carpet bombing of Gaza, for the liberation of the Palestinian people, and who are working for a just, equitable, and durable peace.We urgently call for:1. An immediate ceasefire2. Immediate restoration of food, fuel, water, and electricity to the Gaza Strip3. Cessation of all settlement activity and disarmament of all settlers4. Immediate delivery of humanitarian aid on the scale required5. Respect towards the Geneva Conventions by all parties concerned6. An end to apartheid and strident moves toward a democratic future for all people regardless of race, religion, gender identity and nationalityIn addition, we strongly uphold the principle of academic freedom, especially in light of the

On this edition of Parallax Views, two Jewish American perspectives on the Jewish American community's response to 9/11, the issue of antisemitism, and Israel/Palestine. First up, Dov Waxman, director of UCLA's Younes and Soraya Nazarian Center for Israel Studies and the Rosalinde and Arthur Gilbert Foundation Chair in Israel Studies, joins the show to discuss the American Jewish community's response to 9/11, defining antisemitism (and why he argues that anti-Zionism is not antisemitism; Waxman was part of the Nexus Task Force that sought to combat antisemitism while arguably having a less broad and potentially politicized definition of antisemitism than the IHRA), his book Trouble in the Tribe: The American Jewish Conflict Over Israel, the idea of exiling anti-Zionist Jewish groups like Jewish Voice for Peace and IfNotNow and why disagrees with it, the debate over the value of the settler-colonial discourse, the different types of Zionism, his feelings on Palestinian anti-Zionist attitudes, and much, much more! In the second segment of the show Ron Kampeas, longtime reporter of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, discuss a number of the topics discussed with Prof. Waxman, but also the March for Israel rally, right-wing antisemitism and criticism of John Hagee's participation in the rally, the involvement of a "peace bloc" at the rally, the Jonathan Pollard spy case, Ron's reporting on the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooting, remaining objective in reporting on news that oftn hits close to home emotionally, Rashida Tlaib's use of the pro-Palestinian "from the rive to the sea", the murder of Chicago-based Jewish-American community leader Samantha Woll and the rush to assume it was a hate crime (since ruled out by police), differences between Jewish media outlets in both America and Israel, sentiments against Benjamin Netanyahu in the U.S. and Israel, and much, much, more!

Palestine 101: 75 years of Colonialism, Imperialism, and Resistance This episode is made up of presentations from a Nov. 12 online event organized by the Tempest Collective https://www.tempestmag.org, a revolutionary socialist project based in the US that now also accepts members from Canada. Speakers: Shireen Akram-Boshar, a contributor to Palestine: A Socialist Introduction Brian Bean, co-editor of Palestine: A Socialist Introduction https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1558-palestine-a-socialist-introduction Sherry Wolf, anti-Zionist Jewish socialist; former press officer for the Russell Tribunal on Palestine

Hanan Schlesinger is an Orthodox rabbi and teacher, and a passionate Zionist settler who has been profoundly transformed by his encounters with Palestinians and the Palestinian People beginning in late 2013. Originally hailing from New York, Rav Hanan immigrated to Israel on his own at the age of 20 and has lived in Alon Shvut, Gush Etzion, for almost 35 years. His family background is Reform, but already at the end of high school he began delving into observant Judaism. Following his B.A., he spent over 10 years in advanced Jewish study, primarily at the Har Etzion College of Jewish Studies and in the M.A. program of the Dept. of Jewish Philosophy at the Hebrew University. In early 2014, Ali Abu Awwad and an Israeli partner Shaul Judelman, together with Rav Hanan and other Israelis and Palestinians, founded Roots/Judur/Shorashim. Rav Hanan currently serves as its Director of International Relations. He also is the founder of the American Friends of Roots, a multi-faith organization dedicated to supporting the work of Roots/Shorashim/Judur. Rav Hanan frequently speaks in the USA together with one of his Palestinian partner about the amazing work that Roots/Shorashim/Judur is doing in Judea/Palestine. Support Theology in the Raw through Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theologyintheraw

Emergency meeting discussing Palestine, resistance & the struggle for freedom with:Tariq Ali, author · Refaat Alareer, Palestinian writer live from Gaza · Richard Boyd Barrett, socialist MP in Ireland · Sophia Beach, anti-Zionist Jewish socialist · Ilan Pappé, authorIsrael is launching a brutal attack on Gaza, in what many are calling a "second Nakba". Thousands of Palestinians are being killed, forced to flee and are facing Israeli terror. All this is being done with the support of the West, including politicians like Keir Starmer.Palestinians are right to resist. The 75 years that have passed since the first Nakba have been constant occupation, apartheid and brutalisation of Palestinians at the hands of the Israeli state. It is crucial in Britain that we stand in solidarity with the Palestinian resistance. But we have to ask the question - how can Palestine be free?This meeting will be debating how we can build solidarity in Britain, why Palestinians are right to resist and what a revolutionary strategy for Palestinian liberation looks like.

In this edition of his Search for Meaning podcast, Stephen Wise Temple Senior Rabbi Yoshi Zweiback hosts Ben M. Freeman, author, educator, and founder of the modern Jewish Pride movement.Born in Scotland, Freeman rose to prominence during the Corbyn Labour Jew-hate crisis and quickly became one of his generation's leading voices against anti-Jewish racism. In February of 2021, he published Jewish Pride: Rebuilding a People, which became known as the Jewish Pride manifesto. In October of 2022, he followed that book up with Reclaiming Our Story: The Pursuit of Jewish Pride, the second in what will become a groundbreaking trilogy when he publishes his finale in 2024.Freeman's journey to Jewish Pride marries two distinct identities and experiences. For a long time, his identity as a gay man and his Jewish identity were, as he puts it "totally separate." While he was raised in a vibrant, tight-knit, strongly Zionist Jewish community in Glasgow and proudly served that community for five years, the 36-year-old Freeman was born in 1987, at the height of the AIDS pandemic."That really clouded society's perception of what it meant to be gay, and I absorbed that, and I internalized it," Freeman tells Rabbi Yoshi. "I felt a huge amount of shame, and had to do a huge amount of work to undo all of that."[RELATED: Wise Members Share Their Story at Pride Shabbat]It wasn't until 2018, when the Jewish community of Britain united to oppose Labour Party MP Jeremy Corbyn's possible ascendance to the office of British Prime Minister, that the connection between Freeman's two identities crystalized. Working at the Hong Kong Holocaust Center, Freeman was somewhat on the sidelines as a firestorm erupted around Corbyn's history of antisemitic behavior, his defense of those espousing antisemitic conspiracy theories, and the increasingly antisemitic attitudes of the party he led. He took to social media with the aim to educate, approaching the situation from with his background as a Holocaust educator.While he was inspired by the united response from the British Jewish community, he noted the difficulty many high-profile, left-leaning Jews had with calling out the clearly racist and antisemitic tropes present in Corbyn's anti-Israel rhetoric."I believe they were so married to their identities as leftists," Freeman says. "That just got me reflecting on my experience with gay pride, how it changed my life, and I thought, 'This is unacceptable. We need a pride movement. We deserve a pride movement,' and I started talking a bit online. I made a video with some friends, being like, 'This is why I'm proud [to be Jewish]; why are you proud?' and it went a little bit viral."Freeman emerged as a thought-leader on Jewish education, history, and identity, and his trilogy of books is informed as much by that as it is his own experiences with LGBTQ+ pride as a gay man. With his trilogy, Freeman aims to educate, inspire, and empower Jewish people to reject the shame of antisemitism imposed on Jews by the non-Jewish world, as well as non-Jewish perceptions of what it means to be a Jew.

What can we say we've learned about Jewish liberation from 100 episodes of The Next Stage? Yehuda HaKohen is joined by Vision movement organizers Lizzy Oziel, Aryeh Shapiro & Shai Hershel for the 100th episode of The Next Stage podcast to discuss the need for a post-Zionist Jewish liberation movement and to outline some of its objectives.

The thought police is using the cancel culture to silence truth. This is the beginning stages of Jacob's trouble. Anti-semitic labels is used by the Zionist Jewish power structure that secretly control industries in America and worldwide. That use their influence to intimidate, bully those who don't push their narrative or who expose their clandestine plots against society.

Kanye West speaks about black Americans being the jews of the Bible as the cancel culture, record deals and business practices of the Zionist Jewish people.

Erin-Kate Escobar (Erin-Kate Escobar Consulting) has a Vision where People are able to navigate and challenge oppression as whole humans. They work to accomplish that through their Mission: To build more inclusive workplaces where people can thrive through developing and implementing DEI strategies that include healing, and anti-racist practices. Erin-Kate has previously developed DEI initiatives in STEM communities, including Caltech, NASA, and Nobel Prize-winning LIGO scientific collaborations. These days, you can more often find them partnering with small businesses, museums, schools, and nonprofits to create more diverse and equitable team environments. Erin-Kate navigates the world as a non-binary, queer, Latinx(e), white, multi-ethnic, and non-Zionist Jewish person of color and is passionate about supporting personal growth and institutional social change towards greater equity. You can go to their website to be the first to know about their toolkit to build transformative Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) in the workplace: www.erinkateescobar.com/ergtoolkit What tools do ERGs need to become not only functional, but TRANSFORMATIVE? Tune in to find out more about the transformative potential of ERGs AND what we can do to set up our existing ERGs for success. *** Not yet part of the DiVerity Network? Follow this link to find out how you can join our network of People & Culture experts: bit.ly/JoinDiVerity Are you an organization looking for People & Culture experts, like DEI consultants and conflict management professionals? Perfect! Join our beta: bit.ly/DiVerityBeta And, if you missed our last podcast, you can catch the replay on our social media accounts OR by finding us on your favorite source for podcasts!

Israel has a new Prime Minister (for now), anti-Zionist Twitter has a new troll, and lovers of post-racial America have a new favorite movie (according to Gabi - and Michael Anton). The Three Jews argue over Yair Lapid's merits; debate the curious case of an Israel-bashing Jewish convert, and ponder what Top Gun: Maverick has to teach us about race in America. There's also a surprisingly long conversation about meat-based sandwiches, and a shout-out to the Pinsker Centre (yes, it is spelled that way, it's British!) Happy 4th July to all our American listeners! Follow (and argue with) us on Twitter - @3Jews4Opinions @abesilbe @Brahmski @pauldgross Articles referred to can be found here: Lapid has a chance to be what Israel needs in his turn as PM Only the center can hold: Democracy and the battle of ideas Avodah denies pressure caused it to fire anti-Zionist activist ‘Top Gun: Maverick'— A Boomer Fantasy

It's been a little over a year since we published israel Won't Save Us: Moving Towards Liberation. Since then, we've identified openly as an anti-Zionist Jewish organization. This decision has brought us into community with incredible Jewish organizations, educators, and organizers who have welcomed us and encouraged us to keep going. We've also faced backlash from Jewish communities and lost opportunities as well. We are so grateful for the people who have reached out to share their stories, lessons, and advice. In this episode, we reflect on our decision to publish the article and our experiences since! Be back next week with the beginning of our July series on how Jewish ethics support anti-zionism

This is a CRAZY story! I recently came across this girls YouTube channel about her conversion from Judaism to Islam. She asked to keep her identity private so we'll call her M. M grew up in Canada to religious Zionist Jewish parents and decided to become Muslim, is no longer Zionist and married an Arab man. She now lives part time in Canada with her mom while she's in school for her masters in psychiatry and partly in Jerusalem with her husband. What would cause a Jewish girl to convert to Islam and go from Zionist to anti Zionist? Click the link and find out! SUBSCRIBE, LIKE, AND SHARE!! SUPPORT THIS PODCAST! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/rafael-pinsky/message

This week on the Palestine Pod, we sit down with Hadar Cohen, a Mizrahi feminist multi-media artist, healer and educator originally from Jerusalem with lineage from all over the Middle East including Iran, Iraq, Syria and and Palestine. Hadar is a Jewish mystic with Sephardic roots who works to build decolonial frameworks for worshiping God. Her artistic mediums include performance, movement, writing, weaving, sound and ritual. During the global intifada of unity, Hadar came out as a strong anti-Zionist Jewish voice from on the ground. She speaks to us about her family's presence in Palestine harkening to a time long before Zionism, the power of memory as a liberation tool, and the meaning and importance of decolonizing the mind. Lara quotes Hadar's fierce rebuke of Zionism while imagining a life in Palestine post Zionism. Hadar insists on reclaiming the Arab Jewish identity as something separate and unique from European notions of Judaism in response to Arab Jewish trauma that resulted from the Zionist movement. Michael and Hadar dive deeper into the Zionist weaponization of anti-semitism and Michael reminds us that "nobody does anti-semitism like Zionists do." 

Liad talks with the 2 Queer Arabz about her work in anti-Zionist Jewish activism, her film that engages with BDSM and Israeli politics, and all the kink you can imagine! Liad, as a performance artist, filmmaker and musician, uses her artistic work to highlight a range of political and social issues, from Palestinian solidarity activism to climate change. Liad, an ex-sex worker who supports sex workers in Berlin, de-stigmatizes what it means to be in the profession. Film: https://vimeo.com/178736945 : Website: https://liadland.wordpress.com/ 

Episode 8 Bonus Cut: Anti-Zionist Jewish Activism, BDSM, and De-Stigmatizing Sex Work with Performance Artist Liad

This week we sit down with journalist, activist, author and editor of The Electronic Intifada, Nora Barrows-Friedman to discuss BDS victories, campus activism, and the Palestine exception to free speech. Condemning the push to codify the new IHRA definition of antisemitism as well as its recent alternative, the so-called "Jerusalem declaration" definition of antisemitism, Nora sets the record straight by recalling the regular old definition of antisemitism. Lara reminds us that the reason why Zionists have been busy pushing to change the definition of antisemitism is due to the fact that BDS, which threatens the inequalities perpetuated by Zionism, is itself an anti-racist call expressly condemning antisemitism and all forms of racism. Utterly unable to discredit BDS, which does not target individuals or entities because of who they are but because of their complicity in oppression, Michael says Zionists have been left with no choice but to "move the goalpost" by lobbying to change the meaning of antisemitism itself. Nora tells us more about her anti-Zionist Jewish upbringing and long-standing commitment to justice and Palestinian human rights.