Podcasts about inclusive therapists

Bio: Jenny - Co-Host Podcast (er):I am Jenny! (She/Her) MACP, LMHCI am a Licensed Mental Health Counselor, Somatic Experiencing® Practitioner, Certified Yoga Teacher, and an Approved Supervisor in the state of Washington.I have spent over a decade researching the ways in which the body can heal from trauma through movement and connection. I have come to see that our bodies know what they need. By approaching our body with curiosity we can begin to listen to the innate wisdom our body has to teach us. And that is where the magic happens!I was raised within fundamentalist Christianity. I have been, and am still on my own journey of healing from religious trauma and religious sexual shame (as well as consistently engaging my entanglement with white saviorism). I am a white, straight, able-bodied, cis woman. I recognize the power and privilege this affords me socially, and I am committed to understanding my bias' and privilege in the work that I do. I am LGBTQIA+ affirming and actively engage critical race theory and consultation to see a better way forward that honors all bodies of various sizes, races, ability, religion, gender, and sexuality.I am immensely grateful for the teachers, healers, therapists, and friends (and of course my husband and dog!) for the healing I have been offered. I strive to pay it forward with my clients and students. Few things make me happier than seeing people live freely in their bodies from the inside out!Rebecca A. Wheeler Walston, J.D., Master of Arts in CounselingEmail: asolidfoundationcoaching@gmail.comPhone:  +1.5104686137Website: Rebuildingmyfoundation.comI have been doing story work for nearly a decade. I earned a Master of Arts in Counseling from Reformed Theological Seminary and trained in story work at The Allender Center at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology. I have served as a story facilitator and trainer at both The Allender Center and the Art of Living Counseling Center. I currently see clients for one-on-one story coaching and work as a speaker and facilitator with Hope & Anchor, an initiative of The Impact Movement, Inc., bringing the power of story work to college students.By all accounts, I should not be the person that I am today. I should not have survived the difficulties and the struggles that I have faced. At best, I should be beaten down by life‘s struggles, perhaps bitter. I should have given in and given up long ago. But I was invited to do the good work of (re)building a solid foundation. More than once in my life, I have witnessed God send someone my way at just the right moment to help me understand my own story, and to find the strength to step away from the seemingly inevitable ending of living life in defeat. More than once I have been invited and challenged to find the resilience that lies within me to overcome the difficult moment. To trust in the goodness and the power of a kind gesture. What follows is a snapshot of a pivotal invitation to trust the kindness of another in my own story. May it invite you to receive to the pivotal invitation of kindness in your own story. Listen with me…     Danielle (00:17):Welcome to the Arise podcast, and as you know, we're continuing on the intersection of where our reality meets and today it's where our reality meets our resilience. And how do we define that? A lovely conversation. It's actually just part one. I'm thinking it's going to be multiple conversations. Jenny McGrath, LMHC, and Rebecca Wheeler, Walston. Join me again, look for their bios in the notes and tag along with us. I thought we could start by talking about what do we see as resilience in this moment and what do we see, maybe like I'm saying a lot now, what do we see as the ideal of that resilience and what is actually accessible to us? Because I think there's these great quotes from philosophers and our ancestors, but we don't know all their day-to-day life. What did it look like day to day? So I'm wondering, just kind of posing that for you all, what do you think about resilience? How does it intersect with this moment and how do we kind of ground ourselves in reality?Rebecca (01:33):Rebecca? Coffee helps. Coffee definitely helps. It does. I have coffee here.(01:42):Me too. I would probably try to start with something of a working definition of the word. One of the things that I think makes this moment difficult in terms of a sense of what's real and what's not is the way that our vocabulary is being co-opted or redefined without our permission. And things are being defined in ways that are not accurate or not grounded in reality. And I think that that's part of what feels disorienting in this moment. So I would love for us to just start with a definition of the word, and I'm guessing the three of us will have different versions of that.(02:25):So if I had to start, I would say that I used to think about resilience as sort of springing back to a starting point. You started in this place and then something knocked you off of where you started. And resilience is about making it back to the place that you were before you got knocked off of your path. And my definition of that word has shifted in recent years to a sense of resilience that is more about having come through some difficulty. I don't actually bounce back to where I started. I actually adopt a new normal new starting place that has integrated the lessons learned or the strengths or the skills developed for having gone through the process of facing something difficult.Jenny, I love that. I feel like it reminds me of a conversation you and I had many moons ago, Rebecca, around what is flourishing and kind of these maybe idealistic ideas around something that isn't actually rooted in reality. And I love that that definition of resistance feels so committed to being in reality. And I am not going to erase everything I went through to try to get back to something, but I'm actually going to, my word is compost or use what I've gone through to bring me to where I am. Now, this will not surprise either of you. I think when I think of resilience, I think somatically and how we talk about a nervous system or a body and what allows resilience. And so one of the ways that that is talked about is through heart rate variability and our ability for our heart to speed up and slow down is one of the defining factors of our body's ability to stay resilient.(04:42):Can I come to a state of rest and I think about how rest is a privilege that not all bodies have. And so when I think about resilience in that way, it makes me think about how do I actually zoom out of resilience being about an individual body and how do we form kind of more of a collective sense of resilience where we are coworking to create a world where all bodies get to return to that level of safety and rest and comfort and aren't having to stay in a mode of vigilance. And so I see resilience almost as one of the directions that I'm wanting to move and not a place that we're at yet collectively. Collectively meaning whoJenny (05:41):I say collectively, I'm hoping for a world that does not exist yet where it gets to be all bodies, human and non-human, and the ways in which we allow ecosystems to rest, we allow a night sky to rest. We allow ourselves to become more in rhythm with the activation and deactivation that I think nature teaches us of more summer and winter and day and night and these rhythms that I think we're meant to flow in. But in a productive capitalistic society where lights are never turned off and energy is only ever thought about and how do we produce more or different energy, I'm like, how do we just stop producing energy and just take a nap? I'm really inspired by the nat ministry of just like rest actually is a really important part of resistance. And so I have these lofty ideals of what collective means while being aware that we are coming to that collective from very different places in our unresolved historical relational field that we're in.I would say there's a lot I'd love about that, all of that. And I, dear use of the word lofty, I feel that word in this moment that causes me to consider the things that feel like they're out of reach. I think the one thing that I would probably add to what you said is I think you used the phrase like returning to a state of rest when you were talking about heart rate and body. And if we're talking about an individual ability to catch my breath and slow it down, I can track with you through the returning to something. But when we go from that individual to this collective space where I live in the hyphenated existence of the African American story, I don't have the sense of returning to something because African hyphen American people were born as a people group out of this horrific traumatic space called the transatlantic slave trade.(08:15):And so I don't know that our bodies have ever known a sense of rest on us soil. And I don't know that I would feel that that sense of rest on the continent either having been there several times, that sense of something happened in the transition from Africa to America, that I lost my africanness in such a way that doesn't feel like a place of rest. And sometimes we talk about it in terms of for certain people groups, land is connected to that sense of rest for Native Americans, for indigenous people, for certain Latin cultures. But for the African American person, there's not a connection to land. There's only maybe a connection to the water of the transatlantic slave trade. And then water is never at rest. It's always moving, right? So I stay with you and then I lose you and then I come back to you.Danielle (09:25):That feels like a normal part of healing. I stay with you, I lose you and then I come back to you. I think resilience for me has meant living in this family with my partner who's a first generation immigrant and then having kids and having to remind myself that my kids were raised by both of us with two wildly different perspectives even though we share culture. And so there's things that are taught, there's things that are learned that are very different lessons that I cannot be surprised about what might be a form of resilience for my child and what might be a struggle where there isn't groundwork there.(10:22):I remember when Luis came to the United States, his parents said to him, we'll see you in a couple weeks. And I used to think my young self, I was like, what does that mean? They don't think we're going to stay married or whatever. But his dad also told him, be careful up there, be careful. And if Luis were here to tell this story, he said it many times. He's like, I didn't come to the United States because I thought it was the best thing that could happen to me. I came to marry you, I came to be with you, but I didn't come here because it was the best thing to happen to me. When his family came up for the wedding, they were very explicit. We didn't come here, we're not in awe. They wanted to make sure people knew we're okay. And I know there's wildly different experiences on the spectrum of this, but I think about that a lot. And so resilience has looked really different for us.(11:23):I think it is forming that bond with people that came here because they needed work or a different kind of setting or change to people that are already here. And I think as you witness our culture now, handle what's happening with kidnappings, what's happening with moms, what's happening with people on the street, snatching people off the street. You see that in the last election there was a wide range of voters on our side on the Latinx Latina side, and there was a spectrum of thoughts on what would actually help our community. But now you're seeing that quickly contract and basically like, oh shit, that wasn't helpful. So I think my challenge to myself has been how do I stay? Part of resilience for me is how do I stay in contact with people that I love that don't share in the same view as humanity as me? And I think that's an exercise that our people have done for a long time.Rebecca (12:38):Say that last sentence one more time, Danielle.Danielle (12:42):Just like, how do I stay in contact with people that I love that don't share my view of humanity, that don't share the valuation of humanity? How do I stay in contact with them because I actually see them as human too. And I think that's been a part of our resiliency over many years in Latin America just due to constant interference from European governmental powers.Rebecca (13:16):That partly why I think I asked you to repeat that last sentence is because I think I disconnected for a minute and I want to be mindful of disconnecting over a sentence that is about staying connected to people who don't value the same things that I value or don't value or see humanity in the way that I see in humanity. And I'm super aware, part of the conversation that's happening in the black community in this moment, particularly with black women, is the idea that we're not going to step to the forefront in this one. We are culturally, collectively, consciously making a decision to check out. And so if you see any of this on social media, there's a sense of like we're standing around learning line dances from Beyonce about boots on the ground instead of actively engaging in this moment. And so I have some ambivalence about whether or not does that count as resilience, right?(14:28):And is it resilient in a way that's actually kind to us as a people? And I'm not sure if I have an answer to that yet. In my mind the jury is still out, right? There are things about black women stepping to the side that make me really nervous because that's not who we are. It's not historically who we have been. And I am concerned that what we're doing is cutting off parts of ourself. And at the same time, I can tell you that I have not watched a news program. I have not watched a single news recording of anything since November 2nd, 2024.Danielle (15:13):I can just feel the tension of all of our different viewpoints, not that we're in conflict with one another, but we're not exactly on the same page either. And not that we're not on the same team, but I can feel that pull. Anybody else feel that?Rebecca (15:35):Does it feel like, I would agree we're not on the same page and in some ways I don't expect that we would be because we're so different. But does that pull feel like an invitation to clash or does it feel like it is actually okay to not necessarily be on the same page?Danielle (16:06):Well, I think it feels both things. I think I feel okay with it because I know you all and I'm trying to practice that. And I also think I feel annoyed that we can't all be on the same page some sense of annoyance. But I don't know if that annoyance is from you all. I feel the annoyance. It feels like noise from the outside to me a bit. It is not you or Jenny, it's just a general annoyance with how hard this shit is.Rebecca (16:45):And I definitely feel like one of the things I think that happens around supremacy and whiteness on us soil is the larger narrative that we have to be at odds with one another that there isn't a capacity or a way that would allow us to differentiate and not villainize or demonize the person that you are or the community that you are differentiated from. And I think we haven't always had the space collectively to think about what does it mean to walk alongside, what does it mean to lock arms? What does it mean to pull resources even with someone that we're on the same team, but maybe not at the same vantage point.Jenny (17:47):I have two thoughts. Three, I guess I'm aware even my continual work around internalized white saviorism, that part of my ambivalence is like where do you each need me? Are we aligning with people or are we saying f you to people? And I can feel that within me and it takes so much work to come back to, I might actually have a third way that's different than both of you, and that gets to be okay too. But I'm aware that there is that tendency to step into over alignment out of this savior movement and mentality. So just wanted to name that that is there.(18:41):And as you were sharing Rebecca, the word that came to mind for me was orthodoxy. And I don't often think of white supremacy without thinking of Christian supremacy because they've been so interlocked for so long. And the idea that there are many faith traditions including the Jewish tradition that has a mid rash. And it's like we actually come to scripture and we argue about it because we have different viewpoints and that's beautiful and lovely because the word of God is living in all of us. And when orthodoxy came around, it's like, no, we have to be in 100% agreement of these theologies or these doctrines and that's what it means to be Christian. And then eventually I think that's what it means to be a white Christian. So yeah, I think for folks like myself who were immersed in that world growing up, it feels existentially terrifying because it's like if I don't align with the orthodoxy of whiteness or Christianity or capitalism, it viscerally feels like I am risking eternity in hell. And so I better just play it safe and agree with whatever my pastor tells me or whatever the next white Republican male tells me. And so I feel that the weight of what this mindset of orthodoxy has done,Rebecca (20:21):I'm like, I got to take a breath on that one because I got a lot of stuff going on internally. And I think, so my faith tradition has these sort of two parallels. There's this space that I grew up in was rooted in the black church experience and then also in college that introduction into that white evangelical parachurch space where all of that orthodoxy was very, very loud and a version of Christianity that was there is but one way to do all of these things and that one way looks like this. And if you're doing anything other than that, there's something wrong with what you're doing. And so for me, there are parts of me that can walk with you right through that orthodoxy door. And there's also this part of me where the black church experience was actually birthed in opposition to that orthodoxy, that same orthodoxy that said I was three fifths of a person, that same orthodoxy that said that my conversion to Christianity on earth did not change my status as an enslaved person.(21:39):And so I have this other faith tradition that is built around the notion that that orthodoxy is actually a perversion of authentic Christian expression. And so I have both of those things in my body right now going, and so that's just my reaction I think to what you said. I feel both of those things and there are times when I will say to my husband, Ooh, my evangelical illness is showing because I can feel it, like want to push back on this flexibility and this oxygen that is in the room through the black church experience that says I get to come as I am with no apology and no explanation, and Jesus will meet me wherever that is end of conversation, end debate.Danielle (22:46):I don't know. I had a lot of thoughts. They're all kind of mumbled together. I think we have a lot of privilege to have a conversation like this because when you leave a space like this that's curated with people, you've had relationships over a long time maybe had disagreements with or rubbed scratchy edges with. When you get out into the world, you encounter a lot of big feelings that are unprocessed and they don't have words and they have a lot of room for interpretation. So you're just getting hit, hit, hit, hit and the choices to engage, how do you honor that person and engage? You don't want to name their feelings, you don't want to take over interpreting them, but it feels in this moment that we're being invited to interpret one another's feelings a lot. But here we're putting language to that. I mean Jenny and I talked about it recently, but it turns into a lot of relational cutoffs.(23:55):I can't talk to you because X, I can't talk to you because X, I don't want to read your news article. And a lot of times they're like, Danielle, why did you read Charlie Kirk? And I was like, because I have family that was interested in it. I've been watching his videos for years because I wanted to understand what are they hearing, what's going on. Yeah, did it make me mad sometimes? Absolutely. Did I turn it off? Yeah, I still engage and then I swing and listen to the Midas touch or whatever just like these opposite ends and it gives me great joy to listen to something like that. But when we're out and about, if we're saying resiliency comes through connection to our culture and to one another, but then with all the big feelings you can feel just the formidable splits anywhere you go, the danger of speaking of what's unspeakable and you get in a room with people you agree with and then suddenly you can talk. And I don't know how many of us are in rooms where resilience is actually even required in a conversation.Rebecca (25:15):It makes me think about the idea that we don't have good sort of rules of engagement around how to engage someone that thinks differently than we do and we have to kind of create them on the fly. When you were talking Danielle about the things you choosing to read Charlie Kirk, or not choosing to listen to something that reflects your values or not, and the invitation in this moment or the demand that if someone thinks differently than me, it is just a straight cutoff. I'm not even willing to consider that there's any kind of veracity in your viewpoint whatsoever. And I think we don't have good theology, we don't have good vocabulary, we don't have good rules of engagement about when is it okay to say, actually, I'm going to choose not to engage you. And what are the reasons why we would do that that are good reasons, that are wise reasons that are kind reasons? And I think the country is in a debate about that and we don't always get the answer to those questions and because we don't get it right then there's just relational debris all over the floor.Jenny (26:47):I'm just thinking about, I am far from skilled or perfect at this by any means, but I feel like these last couple years I live in a van and one of the reasons that we decided to do that was that we would say, I think I know two things about every state, and they're probably both wrong. And I think for our own reasons, my husband and I don't like other people telling us what is true. We like to learn and discover and feel it in our own bodies. And so it's been really important for us to literally physically go to places and talk to people. And I think it has been a giant lesson for me on nuance and that nobody is all one thing. And often there's people that are on the completely opposite side of the aisle, but we actually look at the same issues and we have a problem with the issues. We just have heard very, very different ways of fixing or tending to those issues. And so I think often if we can come down to what are we fearing, what is happening, what is going on, we can kind of wrestle there a little bit more than jumping to, so what's the solution? And staying more in that dirt level.(28:22):And not always perfectly of course, but I think that's been one of the things in an age of the algorithm and social media, it is easy for me to have very broad views of what certain states or certain people groups or certain voting demographics are like. And then when you are face to face, you have to wrestle. And I love that when you said, Daniel, I see them as human. And it's like, oh yeah, it's so much easier to see someone as not human when I'm learning about them from a TikTok reel or from a news segment than when I'm sharing a meal with them and hearing about their story and how they've come to believe the things they've believed or wrestle with the things they're wrestling with.Rebecca (29:14):Two things. One, I think what you're talking about Jenny, is the value of proximity. The idea that I've stepped close to someone into their space, into their world with a posture of I'm going to just listen. I'm going to learn, I'm going to be curious. And in that curiosity, open handed and open-minded about all kinds of assumptions and presuppositions. And you're right, we don't do that a lot. The second thing that I was thinking when you mentioned getting into the dirt, I think you used the phrase like staying in the darker sort of edges of some of those hard conversations. That feels like a choice towards resiliency. To me, the idea that I will choose of my will to stay in the room, in the relationship, in the conversation long enough to wrestle long enough to learn something long enough to have my perspective challenged in a real way that makes me rethink the way I see something or the lens that I have on that particular subject.(30:33):And I don't think we could use more of that in this moment. I think probably our friendship, what started as a professional connection that has over the years developed into this friendship is about the choice to stay connected and the choice to stay in the conversation. I know when I first met you, we were going to do a seminar together and someone said, oh yeah, Jenny's getting ready to talk on something about white people. And I had 8,000 assumptions about what you were going to say and all kinds of opinions about my assumptions about what you're going to say. And I was like, well, I want to talk to her. I want to know what is she going to say? And really it was because if she says anything crazy, we right, we all have problems, me and you, right? And the graciousness with which you actually entered that conversation to go like, okay, I'm listening. What is it that you want to ask me? I think as part of why we're still friends, why we're still colleagues, why we still work together, is that invitation from you, that acceptance of that invitation from me. Can we wrestle? Can we box over this and come out the other side having learned something about ourselves and each other?Jenny (32:10):And I think part of that for me, what I have to do is reach for my lineage pre whiteness. And I have this podcast series that I love called Search for the Slavic Soul that has made me make more sense to myself. And there's this entire episode on why do Slavic people love to argue? And I'm like, oh, yes. And I think part of that has been me working out that place of white woman fragility that says, if someone questions my ideas or my values or my views, I need to disintegrate and I need to crumple. And so I'm actually so grateful for that time and for how we've continued to be able to say, I don't agree with that, and we can still be okay and we can still kind of navigate because of course we're probably going to see things differently based on our experiences.Danielle (33:16):That is exactly the problem though is because there's a lot of, not everybody, but there's a lot of folks that don't really have a sense of self or have a sense of their own body. So there's so much enmeshment with whoever they're with. So when then confronted and mesh, I mean merging, we're the same self. It adds protection. Think about it. We all do it. Sometimes I need to be people just like me. It's not bad. But if that sense of merging will cost you the ability to connect to someone different than you or that sees very different than you, and when they confront that, if they're quote alone physically or alone emotionally in that moment, they'll disappear or they'll cut you off or they'll go away or it comes out as violence. I believe it comes out as shootings as we could go on with the list of violent outcomes that kind of cut, that kind of separation happens. So I mean, I'm not like Jenny, that's awesome. And it doesn't feel that typical to me.Rebecca (34:36):What you just described to me, Daniel, I have been going like, isn't that whiteness though, the whole point, and I'm talking about whiteness, not the people who believe themselves to be white, to quote taishi quotes. The whole point of whiteness is this enmeshment of all these individual European countries and cultures and people into this one big blob that has no real face on it. And maybe that's where the fragility comes from. So I love when Jenny said, it makes me reach back into my ancestry pre whiteness, and I'm going, that needs to be on a t-shirt. Please put it on a t-shirt, a coffee mug, a hat, something. And so that's sort of Taishi Coates concept of the people who believe themselves to be white is a way to put into words this idea that that's not actually your story. It's not actually your ancestry.(35:43):It's not actually your lineage. It's the disruption and the eraser and the stealing of your lineage in exchange for access to power and privilege. And I do think it is this enmeshment, this collective enmeshment of an entire European continent. And perhaps you're right that that's where the fragility comes from. So when you try to extract a person or a people group out of that, I don't know who I am, if absent this label of whiteness, I don't know what that means by who I am now I'm talking like I know what I'm talking about. I'm not white, so let me shut up. Maybe that means Jenny, you could say if I misunderstood you misquoted, you misrepresented allJenny (36:31):The No, no, I think yeah, I'm like, yes, yes, yes. And it also makes me go back to what you said about proximity. And I think that that is part of the design of whiteness, and even what you were saying about faith, and you can correct me, but my understanding is that those who could vote and those who could own property were Christian. And then when enslaved black people started converting to Christianity and saying, I can actually take pieces of this and I can own this and I can have this white enslavers had a conundrum because then they couldn't use the word Christian in the way that they used to justify chattel slavery and wealth disparity. So they created the word white, and so then it was then white people that could own property and could vote. And so what that did was also disable a class solidarity between lower socioeconomic white bodies and newly emancipated black bodies to say, no, we're not in this together struggling against those that own the highest wealth. I have this pseudo connection with bodies that hold wealth because of the color of my skin. And so then it removes both my proximity to my own body and my proximity to bodies that are probably in a similar struggle, very disproportionate and different than my own because I have white privilege. But it also then makes white bodies align with the system instead of co-conspirator with bodies working towards liberation.Rebecca (38:32):I do think that that's true. I think there's a lot of data historically about the intentional division that was driven between poor people in the colonies and wealthy people in the colonies. And I say people because I think the class stratification included enslaved Africans, free Africans, poor whites, native American people that were there as well. And so I think that there was a kind of diversity there in terms of race and ethnicity and nationality that was intentionally split and then reorganize along racial lines. The only thing that I would add on the Christian or the faith spectrum is that there's a book by Jamar TBE called The Color of Compromise. And one of the things that he talks about in that book is the religious debate that was happening when the colonies were being organized around if you proselytize your slave and they convert, then do you have to emancipate them?(39:43):Because in England, the religious law was that you could not enslave or in put a believer into servitude in any form, whether that's indentured servitude or slavery. Well, I got a problem with the premise, the idea that if you were not a Christian in medieval England, I could do whatever I wanted to. The premise is wrong in the first place. The thought that you could own or indenture a human to another human is problematic on its face. So I just want to name that the theological frame that they brought from England was already jacked, and then they superimposed it in the colonies and made a conscious decision at the House of Burgess, which is about a mile from where I'm sitting, made a conscious decision to decide that your conversion to Christianity does not impact any part of your life on earth. It only impacts your eternity. So all you did was by fire insurance, meaning that your eternity is now in heaven and not in hell, but on earth I can do whatever I want. And that split that perversion of the gospel at that moment to decide that the kingdom of God has nothing to do with what is happening on earth is something we're still living with today. Right? It's the reason why you have 90 some odd percent of evangelicals voting for all kinds of policies that absolutely violate every tenant of scripture in the Bible and probably every other holy book on the planet, and then still standing in their pulpit on Sunday morning and preaching that they represent God. It's ridiculous. It's offensive.Danielle (41:38):I just feel like this is proving my point. So I feel like other people may have said this, but who's kept talking about this exchange for whiteness? Bro, we're in the timeline where Jesus, their Jesus said yes to the devil. He's like, give me the power, give me the money, give me the bread. And if you want to come into their religion, you have to trade in how God actually made you for to say yes to that same temptation for power and money and whatever, and erase your face's. One comment. Second comment is this whole thing about not giving healthcare to poor families.(42:20):I hesitate to say this word, but I'm reminded of the story of the people that first came here from England, and I'm aware that they were starving at one point, and I'm aware that they actually ate off their own people, and that's partly how they survived. And it feels the same way to me, here, give us the power, give us the control, give us the money. And we're like, the fact is, is that cutting off healthcare for millions of Americans doesn't affect immigrants at all. They're not on those plans. It affects most poor whites and they have no problem doing it and then saying, come, give me your bread. Come give me your cheese. Come give me your vote. It's like a self flesh eating virus, and(43:20):I am almost speechless from it. There's this rumor that migrants have all the health insurance, and I know that's not true because Luis legally came here. He had paperwork, he was documented, got his green card, then got his citizenship, and even after citizenship to prove we could get health insurance, when he got off his job, we had to not only submit his passport, but his certificate that was proof of citizenship through the state of Washington, a very liberal state to get him on health insurance. So I know there's not 25 million immigrants in the country falsifying those records. That's just not happening. So I know that that's a lie from personal experience, but I also know that the point is, the point is the lie. The point is to tell you the lie and actually stab the person in the back that you're lying to. That just feels dark to me. I went off, sorry, that's kind of off the subject of resilience.Rebecca (44:36):No, I have two reactions to that. The first one is when we were talking just a few minutes ago about the exchange for power and privilege, it's actually a false invitation to a table that doesn't actually exist. That's what, to me is darkest about it. It's the promise of this carrot that you have no intention of ever delivering. And people have so bought into the lie so completely that it's like you didn't even stop to consider that, let alone the ability to actually see this is not actually an invitation to anything. So that is partly what I think about. And if you read the book, the Sum of Us, it actually talks about Sum, SUM, the sum of us. It actually talks about the cost, the economic cost of racism, and each chapter is about a different industry and how there were racist policies set up in that industry.(45:49):And basically the point the author makes is that at every turn, in order to subjugate and oppress a community of color, white people had to sacrifice something for themselves and oppress themselves and disenfranchise themselves in order to pull it off. And they did it anyway because essentially it is wealthy white, it's affluent white male that ends up with the power and the privilege, and everybody else is subjugated and oppressed. And that's a conversation. I don't understand it. The gaslighting is got to be astronomical and brilliant to convince an entire community of people to vote against themselves. So I'm over there with you on the limb, Danielle,Jenny (47:16):Yeah, I am thinking about Fox News and how most impoverished white communities, that is the only source of information that they have because there isn't proximity and there isn't a lot of other conversations. It is exactly what Tucker Carlson or all of these people are spewing. And I think fear is such a powerful tool, and honestly, I don't see it as that different than early indoctrination around hell and using that to capitulate people into the roles that the church wanted them. And so it's like things might be bad now, but there are going to be so much worse quote because of the racial fear mongering of immigrants, of folks of color, of these people coming to take your jobs that if you can work, people who are already struggling into such a frenzy of fear, I think they're going to do things drastically vote for Trump because they think he's going to save the economy because that's what they're hearing, regardless of if that is even remotely true, and regardless of the fact that most white bodies are more likely to be climate refugees than they are to be billionaire friends withRebecca (48:59):So then what does resilience look like in the face of that kind of fearmongering?Jenny (49:24):This is maybe my nihilistic side. I don't know that things are going to get better before they get far worse. And I think that's where the resilience piece comes in. I was like, how do we hold on to our own humanity? How do we hold onto our communities? How do we hold onto hope in the reality that things will likely get worse and worse and worse before some type of reckoning or shift happens,Rebecca(50:23):Yeah. There's actually, I saw an Instagram post a couple months ago, and I want to say it was Bruce Springsteen and he was just lamenting the erosion of art and culture and music in this moment that there's not art in the Oval Office, that there's not, and just his sense that art and music and those kinds of expressions, actually, I don't think he used the word defiance, but that's the sentiment that I walked away with. That is a way to amplify our humanity in a way that invites proximity to cultures and people that are different than you. This whole argument that we're having right now about whether this election of Bad Bunny makes any sense and the different sort of arguments about what the different sides that people have taken on that, it's hilarious. And then there's something about it that feels very real.Danielle (51:31):Yeah, I had someone told me, I'm not watching it because he's a demonic Marxist. I was like, can you be a Marxist and be in the entertainment industry anyway? Clearly, we're going to have to talk about this again. I wrote an essay for good faith media and I was just, I couldn't wrap it up. And they're like, that's okay. Don't wrap it up. It's not meant to be wrapped up. So maybe that's how our conversation is too. I dunno. Jenny, what are you thinking?Jenny (52:13):I have many thoughts, mostly because I just watched one battle after another last night, and I don't want to give any spoilers away, but I feel like it was a really, it's a very million trigger warnings piece of art that I think encapsulates so much of what we're talking about and sort of this transgenerational story of resilience and what does it mean whether that is my own children or other children in this world to lean into, this probably isn't going to end with me. I'm probably not going to fix this. So how do we continue to maybe push the ball forward in the midst of the struggle for future generations? And I think I'm grateful for this space. I think this is one of the ways that we maybe begin to practice and model what proximity and difference and resilience can look like. And it's probably not always going to be easy or there's going to be struggles that probably come even as we work on engaging this together. And I'm grateful that we get to engage this together.Danielle (53:35):Well, we can always continue our thoughts next week. That's right. Yeah, Rebecca. Okay, I'll be locked in, especially because I said it in the podcast.Rebecca (53:48):I know. I do agree with that. Jenny, I particularly agree having this conversation, the three of us intentionally staying in each other's lives, checking on each other, checking in with each other, all that feels like this sort of defiant intentional resilience, particularly in a moment in history where things that have been our traditional expression of resilience have been cut off like it In recent US history, any major change happened, usually started on the college campus with public protests and public outcry, and those avenues have been cut off. It is no longer safe to speak out on a college campus. People are losing their degrees, they're getting kicked out of colleges, they're getting expelled from colleges for teachers are getting fired for expressing viewpoints that are not in line with the majority culture at this moment. And so those traditional avenues of resilience, I think it was an intentional move to go after those spaces first to shut down what we would normally do to rally collectively to survive a moment. And so I think part of what feels hard in this moment is we're having to reinvent them. And I think it's happening on a micro level because those are the avenues that we've been left with, is this sort of micro way to be resistant and to be resilient.Danielle (55:31):As you can see, we didn't finish our conversation this round, so check out the next episode. After this, we'll be wrapping up this conversation or at least continuing it. And at the end in the notes, their resources, I encourage you to connect with community, have conversations, give someone a hug that you trust and love and care for, and looking forward to having you join us.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Danielle (00:20):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations about reality and talking a lot about what that means in the context of church, faith, race, justice, religion, all the things. Today, I'm so honored to have Sarah Van Gelder, a community leader, an example of working and continuing to work on building solidarity and networks and communication skills and settling into her lane. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hey, Sarah, it's so good to be with you. And these are just casual conversations, and I do actual minimal editing, but they do get a pretty good reach, so that's exciting. I would love to hear you introduce yourself. How do you introduce yourself these days? Tell me a little bit about who you are. Okay.Sarah (01:14):My name is Sarah Van Gelder and I live in Bremer and Washington. I just retired after working for the Suquamish Tribe for six years, so I'm still in the process of figuring out what it means to be retired, doing a lot of writing, a certain amount of activism, and of course, just trying to figure out day to day, how to deal with the latest, outrageous coming from the administration. But that's the most recent thing. I think what I'm most known for is the founding yes magazine and being the editor for many years. So I still think a lot about how do we understand that we're in an era that's essentially collapsing and something new may be emerging to take its place? How do we understand what this moment is and really give energy to the emergence of something new? So those are sort of the foundational questions that I think about.Danielle (02:20):Okay. Those are big questions. I hadn't actually imagined that something new is going to emerge, but I do agree there is something that's collapsing, that's disintegrating. As you know, I reached out about how are we thinking about what is reality and what is not? And you can kind of see throughout the political spectrum or community, depending on who you're with and at what time people are viewing the world through a specific lens. And of course, we always are. We have our own lens, and some people allow other inputs into that lens. Some people are very specific, what they allow, what they don't allow. And so what do we call as reality when it comes to reality and politics or reality and faith or gender, sexuality? It's feeling more and more separate. And so that's kind of why I reached out to you. I know you're a thinker. I know you're a writer, and so I was wondering, as you think about those topics, what do you think even just about what I've said or where does your mind go?Sarah (03:32):Yeah. Well, at first when you said that was the topic, I was a little intimidated by it because it sounded a little abstract. But then I started thinking about how it is so hard right now to know what's real, partly because there's this very conscious effort to distort reality and get people to accept lies. And I think actually part of totalitarian work is to get people to just in the Orwellian book 1984, the character had to agree that two plus two equals five. And only when he had fully embraced that idea could he be considered really part of society.(04:14):So there's this effort to get us to accept things that we actually know aren't true. And there's a deep betrayal that takes place when we do that, when we essentially gaslight ourselves to say something is true when we know it's not. And I think for a lot of people who have, I think that's one of the reasons the Republican party is in such trouble right now, is because so many people who in previous years might've had some integrity with their own belief system, have had to toss that aside to adopt the lies of the Trump administration, for example, that the 2020 election was stolen. And if they don't accept those lies, they get rejected from the party. And once you accept those lies, then from then on you have betrayed yourself. And in many ways, you've betrayed the people who trust you. So it's a really tough dilemma sort of at that political level, even for people who have not bought into the MAGA mindset, or I do think of it as many people have described as a cult.(05:31):Now, even for people who have not bought into that, I think it's just really hard to be in a world where so many fundamental aspects of reality are not shared with people in your own family, in your own workplace, in your own community. I think it's incredibly challenging and we don't really know, and I certainly don't know how to have conversations. In fact, this is a question I wanted to ask you to have conversations across that line of reality because there's so much places where feelings get hurt, but there's also hard to reference back to any shared understanding in order to start with some kind of common ground. It feels like the ground is just completely unreliable. But I'd love to hear your thoughts about how you think about that.Danielle (06:33):It's interesting. I have some family members that are on the far, far, including my parent, well, not my parents exactly, but my father, and I've known this for a while. So prior to what happened in a couple weeks ago with the murder of an activist, I had spent a lot of time actually listening to that activist and trying to understand what he stood for, what he said, why my family was so interested in it. I spent time reading. And then I also was listening to, I don't know if you're familiar with the Midas Touch podcast? Yeah. So I listened to the Midas Brothers, and they're exact opposites. They're like, one is saying, you idiot, and the other one is like, oh, you're an idiot. And so when I could do it, when I had space to do it, it was actually kind of funny to me.(07:34):Sometimes I'm like, oh, that's what they think of someone that thinks like me. And that's when that guy says, calls them an idiot. I feel some resonance with that. So I did that a lot. However, practically speaking, just recently in the last couple months, someone reached out to me from across the political ideology line and said, Hey, wouldn't it be fun if we got together and talked? We think really differently. We've known each other for 20 years. Could you do that? So I said, I thought about it and I was like, yeah, I say this, I should act on it. I should follow through. So I said, okay, yeah, let's meet. We set up a time. And when you get that feeling like that person's not going to show up, but you're also feeling like, I don't know if I want them to show up.(08:24):Am I really going to show up? But it's kind of like a game of chicken. Well, I hung in there longer, maybe not because I wanted to show up, but just because I got distracted by my four kids and whatnot, and it was summer, and the other person did say, oh, I sprained my ankle. I can't have a conversation with you. I was like, oh, okay. And they were like, well, let me reschedule. So I waited. I didn't hear back from them, and then they hopped onto one of my Facebook pages and said some stuff, and I responded and I said, Hey, wait a minute. I thought we were going to have a conversation in person. And it was crickets, it was silence, it was nothing. And then I was tagged in some other comments of people that I would consider even more extreme. And just like, this is an example of intolerance.(09:13):And I was like, whoa, how did I get here? How did I get here? And like I said, I'm not innocent. I associate some of the name calling and I have those explicit feelings. And I was struck by that. And then in my own personal family, we started a group chat and it did not go well. As soon as we jumped into talking about immigration and ice enforcement and stuff after there were two sides stated, and then the side that was on the far right side said, well, there's no point in talking anymore. We're not going to convince each other. And my brother and I were like, wait a minute, can we keep talking? We're not going to convince each other, but how can we just stop talking? And it's just been crickets. It's been silence. There's been nothing. So I think as you ask me that, I just feel like deep pain, how can we not have the things I think, or my perception of what the other side believes is extremely harmful to me and my family. But what feels even more harmful is the fact that we can't even talk about it. There's no tolerance to hear how hurtful that is to us or the real impact on our day-to-day life. And I think this, it's not just the ideology, but it's the inability to even just have some empathy there. And then again, if you heard a guy like Charlie Kirk, he didn't believe in empathy. So I have to remember, okay, maybe they don't even believe in empathy. Okay, so I don't have an answer. What about you?Sarah (11:03):No, I don't either. Except to say that I think efforts that are based on trying to convince someone of a rational argument don't work because this is not about analysis or about rationality, it's about identity, and it's about deep feelings of fear and questions of worthiness. And I think part of this moment we're in with the empire collapsing, the empire that has shorn up so much of our way of life, even people who've been at the margins of it, obviously not as much, but particularly people who are middle class or aspiring to be middle class or upper, that has been where we get our sense of security, where we get our sense of meaning. For a lot of white people, it's their sense of entitlement that they get to have. They're entitled to certain kinds of privileges and ways of life. So if that's collapsing and I believe it is, then that's a very scary time and it's not well understood. So then somebody comes along who's a strong man like Trump and says, not only can I explain it to you, but I can keep you safe. I can be your vengeance against all the insults that you've had to live with. And it's hard to give that up because of somebody coming at you with a rational discussion.(12:36):I think the only way to give that up is to have something better or more secure or more true to lean into. Now that's really hard to do because part of the safety on the right is by totally rejecting the other. And so my sense is, and I don't know if this can possibly work, but my sense is that the only thing that might work is creating nonpolitical spaces where people can just get to know each other as human beings and start feeling that yes, that person is there for me when things are hard and that community is there for me, and they also see me and appreciate who I am. And based on that kind of foundation, I think there's some hope. And so when I think about the kind of organizing to be doing right now, a lot of it really is about just saying, we really all care about our kids and how do we make sure they have good schools and we all need some good healthcare, and let's make sure that that's available to everybody. And just as much as possible keeps it within that other realm. And even maybe not even about issues, maybe it's just about having a potluck and enjoying food together.Danielle (14:10):What structures or how do you know then that you're in reality? And do you have an experience of actually being in a mixed group like that with people that think wildly different than you? And how did that experience inform you? And maybe it's recently, maybe it's in the past. Yeah,Sarah (14:32):So in some respects, I feel like I've lived that way all my life,(14:44):Partly because I spent enough time outside the United States that when I came home as a child, our family lived in India for a year. And so when I came home, I just had this sense that my life, my life and my perceptions of the world were really different than almost everybody else around me, but the exception of other people who'd also spent a lot of time outside the us. And somehow we understood each other pretty well. But most of my life, I felt like I was seeing things differently. And I don't feel like I've ever really particularly gained a lot of skill in crossing that I've tended to just for a lot of what I'm thinking about. I just don't really talk about it except with a few people who are really interested. I don't actually know a lot about how to bridge that gap, except again, to tell stories, to use language that is non-academic, to use language that is part of ordinary people's lives.(16:01):So yes, magazine, that was one of the things that I focused a lot on is we might do some pretty deep analysis, and some of it might include really drawing on some of the best academic work that we could find. But when it came to what we were going to actually produce in the magazine, we really focused in on how do we make this language such that anybody who picks this up who at least feels comfortable reading? And that is a barrier for some people, but anybody who feels comfortable reading can say, yeah, this is written with me in mind. This is not for another group of people. This is written for me. And then part of that strategy was to say, okay, if you can feel that way about it, can you also then feel comfortable sharing it with other people where you feel like they're going to feel invited in and they won't feel like, okay, I'm not your audience.(16:57):I'm not somebody you're trying to speak to. So that's pretty much, I mean, just that whole notion of language and telling stories and using the age old communication as human beings, we evolved to learn by stories. And you can tell now just because you try to tell a kid some lesson and their eyes will roll, but if you tell them a story, they will listen. They won't necessarily agree, but they will listen and it will at least be something they'll think about. So stories is just so essential. And I think that authentic storytelling from our own experience that feels like, okay, I'm not just trying to tell you how you should believe, but I'm trying to say something about my own experience and what's happened to me and where my strength comes from and where my weaknesses and my challenges come from as well.Yeah, you mentioned that, and I was thinking about good stories. And so one of the stories I like to tell is that I moved to Suquamish, which is as an Indian reservation, without knowing really anything about the people I was going to be neighbors with. And there's many stories I could tell you about that. But one of them was that I heard that they were working to restore the ability to dig clams and dies inlet, which is right where silver Dial is located. And I remember thinking that place is a mess. You're never going to be able to have clean enough water because clams require really clean water. They're down filtering all the crap that comes into the water, into their bodies. And so you don't want to eat clams unless the water's very clean. But I remember just having this thought from my perspective, which is find a different place to dig clamps because that place is a mess.(19:11):And then years later, I found out it was now clean enough that they were digging clamps. And I realized that for them, spending years and years, getting the water cleaned up was the obvious thing to do because they think in terms of multiple generations, and they don't give up on parts of their water or their land. So it took years to do it, but they stayed with it. And so that was really a lesson for me in that kind of sense of reality, because my sense of reality is, no, you move on. You do what the pioneers did. One place gets the dust bowl and you move to a different place to farm. And learning to see from the perspective of not only other individuals, but other cultures that have that long millennia of experience in place and how that shifts things. It's almost like to me, it's like if you're looking at the world through one cultural lens, it's like being a one eyed person. You certainly see things, but when you open up your other eye and you can start seeing things in three dimensions, it becomes so much more alive and so much more rich with information and with possibilities.Danielle (20:35):Well, when you think about, and there's a lot probably, how do you apply that to today or even our political landscape? We're finding reality today.Sarah (20:48):Well, I think that the MAGA cult is very, very one eyed. And again, because that sense of safety and identity is so tied up in maintaining that they're not necessarily going to voluntarily open a second eye. But if they do, it would probably be because of stories. There's a story, and I think things like the Jimmy Kimmel thing is an example of that.(21:21):There's a story of someone who said what he believed and was almost completely shut down. And the reason that didn't happen is because people rose up and said, no, that's unacceptable. So I think there's a fundamental belief that's widespread enough that we don't shut down people for speech unless it's so violent that it's really dangerous. We don't shut people down for that. So I think when there's that kind of dissonance, I think there's sometimes an opening, and then it's really important to use that opening, not as a time to celebrate that other people were wrong and we were right, but to celebrate these values that free speech is really important and we're going to stand up for it, and that's who we are. So we get back to that identity. You can feel proud that you were part of this movement that helped make sure that free speech is maintained in the United States. Oh, that'sDanielle (22:26):Very powerful. Yeah, because one side of my family is German, and they're the German Mennonites. They settled around the Black Sea region, and then the other side is Mexican. But these settlers were invited by Catherine the Great, and she was like, Hey, come over here. And Mennonites had a history of non-violence pacifist movement. They didn't want to be conscripted into the German army. And so this was also attractive for them because they were skilled farmers and they had a place to go and Russia and farm. And so that's why they left Germany, to go to Russia to want to seek freedom of their religion and use their farming skills till the soil as well as not be conscripted into violent political movements. That's the ancestry of the side of my family that is now far.(23:29):And I find, and of course, they came here and when they were eventually kicked out, and part of that them being kicked out was then them moving to the Dakotas and then kicking out the native tribes men that were there on offer from the US government. So you see the perpetuation of harm, and I guess I just wonder what all of that cost my ancestors, what it cost them to enact harm that they had received themselves. And then there was a shift. Some of them went to World War II as conscientious objectors, a couple went as fighters.(24:18):So then you start seeing that shift. I'm no longer, I'm not like a pacifist. You start seeing the shift and then we're to today, I don't know if those black sea farmers that moved to Russia would be looking down and being good job. Those weren't the values it seems like they were pursuing. So I even, I've been thinking a lot about that and just what does that reality mean here? What separations, what splitting has my family had to do to, they changed from these deeply. To move an entire country means you're very committed to your values, uproot your life, even if you're farming and you're going to be good at it somewhere else, it's a big deal.Sarah (25:10):Oh, yeah. So it also could be based on fear, right? Because I think so many of the people who immigrated here were certainly my Jewish heritage. There is this long history of pilgrims and people would get killed. And so it wasn't necessarily that for a lot of people that they really had an option to live where they were. And of course, today's refugees, a lot of 'em are here for the same reason. But I think one of the things that happened in the United States is the assimilation into whiteness.(25:49):So as white people, it's obviously different for different communities, but if you came in here and you Irish people and Italians and so forth were despised at certain times and Jews and Quakers even. But over time, if you were white, you could and many did assimilate. And what did assimilate into whiteness? First of all, whiteness is not a culture, and it's kind of bereft of real meaning because the real cultures were the original Irish and Italian. But the other thing is that how you make whiteness a community, if you will, is by excluding other people, is by saying, well, we're different than these other folks. So I don't know if this applies to your ancestors or not, but it is possible that part of what their assimilation to the United States was is to say, okay, we are white people and we are entitled to this land in North Dakota because we're not native. And so now our identity is people who are secure on the land, who have title to it and can have a livelihood and can raise our children in security. That is all wrapped up in us not being native and in our government, keeping native people from reclaiming that land.(27:19):So that starts shifting over generations. Certainly, it can certainly shift the politics. And I think that plus obviously the sense of entitlement that so many people felt to and feel to their slave holding ancestors, that was a defensible thing to do. And saying it's not is a real challenge to somebody's identity.(27:51):So in that respect, that whole business that Trump is doing or trying to restore the Confederate statues, those were not from the time of slavery. Those were from after reconstruction. Those were part of the south claiming that it had the moral authority and the moral right to do these centuries long atrocities against enslaved people. And so to me, that's still part of the fundamental identity struggle we're in right now, is people saying, if I identify as white, yes, I get all this safety and all these privileges, but I also have this burden of this history and history that's continuing today, and how do I reconcile those two? And Trump says, you don't have to. You can just be proud of what you have perpetrated or what your ancestors perpetrated on other people.And I think there was some real too. I think there were people who honestly felt that they wanted to reconcile the, and people I think who are more willing to have complex thoughts about this country because there are things to be proud of, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the long history of protecting free speech and journalism and education for everyone and so forth. So there are definitely things to be proud of. And then there are things to recognize. We're incredibly violent and have had multiple generations of trauma resulting from it. And to live in this country in authenticity is to recognize that both are true and we're stuck with the history, but we're not stuck without being able to deal with that. We can do restitution and reparations and we can heal from that.Danielle (30:15):How do you stay connected even just to your own self in that dissonance that you just described?Sarah (30:30):Well, I think part of having compassion is to recognize that we're imperfect beings as individuals, but we're also imperfect as cultures. And so for me, I can live with, I mean, this is something I've lived with ever since I was in India, really. And I looked around and noticed that there were all these kids my own age who were impoverished and I was not. And that I knew I have enough to eat at the end of the day, and I knew that many of them would not have enough to eat. So it's always been a challenge for me. And so my response to that has been when I was a kid was, well, I don't understand how that happened. It's certainly not right. I don't understand how it could be, and I'm going to do my best to understand it, and then I'll do my part to try to change it. And I basically had the same view ever since then, which is there's only so much I can do, but I'll do everything I can, including examining my own complicity and working through issues that I might be carrying as somebody who grew up in a white supremacist culture, working on that internally, and then also working in community and working as an activist in a writer in any way I can think of that I can make a contribution.(31:56):But I really do believe that healing is possible. And so when I think about the people that are causing that I feel like are not dealing with the harm that they're creating, I still feel just somebody who goes to prison for doing a crime that's not the whole of who they are. And so they're going to have to ultimately make the choice about whether they're going to heal and reconcile and repair the damage they will have to make that choice. But for my part, I always want to keep that door open in my relationship with them and in my writing and in any other way, I want to keep the door open.Danielle (32:43):And I hear that, and I'm like, that's noble. And it's so hard to do to keep that door open. So what are some of the tools you use, even just on your own that help you keep that door open to conversation, even to feeling compassion for people maybe you don't agree with? What are some of the things, maybe their internal resources, external resources could be like, I don't know, somebody you read, go back to and read. Yeah. What helps you?Sarah (33:16):Well, the most important thing for me to keep my sanity is a combination of getting exercise and getting outside(33:27):And hanging out with my granddaughter and other people I love outside of political spaces because the political spaces get back into the stress. So yeah, I mean the exercise, I just feel like being grounded in our bodies is so important. And partly that the experience of fear and anxiety show up in our bodies, and we can also process them through being really active. So I'm kind of worried that if I get to the point where I'm too old to be able to really move, whether I'll be able to process as well. So there's that in terms of the natural world, this aliveness that I feel like transcends me and certainly humanity and just an aliveness that I just kind of open my senses to. And then it's sort, they call it forest bathing or don't have to be in a forest to do it, but just sort of allowing that aliveness to wash over me and to sort of celebrate it and to remember that we're all part of that aliveness. And then spending time with a 2-year-old is like, okay, anything that I may be hung up on, it becomes completely irrelevant to her experience.Danielle (35:12):I love that. Sarah, for you, even though I know you heard, you're still asking these questions yourself, what would you tell people to do if they're listening and they're like, and they're like, man, I don't know how to even start a conversation with someone that thinks different than me. I don't know how to even be in the same room them, and I'm not saying that your answers can apply to everybody. Mine certainly don't either, like you and me are just having a conversation. We're just talking it out. But what are some of the things you go to if you know you're going to be with people Yeah. That think differently than you, and how do you think about it?Sarah (35:54):Yeah, I mean, I don't feel particularly proud of this because I don't feel very capable of having a direct conversation with somebody who's, because I don't know how to get to a foundational level that we have in common, except sometimes we do. Sometimes it's like family, and sometimes it's like, what did you do for the weekend? And so it can feel like small talk, but it can also have an element of just recognizing that we're each in a body, in perhaps in a family living our lives struggling with how to live well. And so I usually don't try to get very far beyond that, honestly. And again, I'm not proud of that because I would love to have conversations that are enlightening for me and the other person. And my go-to is really much more basic than that.Maybe it is. And maybe it creates enough sense of safety that someday that other level of conversation can happen, even if it can't happen right away.Danielle (37:14):Well, Sarah, tell me if people are looking for your writing and know you write a blog, tell me a little bit about that and where to find you. Okay.Sarah (37:26):Yeah, my blog is called How We Rise, and it's on Substack. And so I'm writing now and then, and I'm also writing somewhat for Truth Out Truth out.org has adopted the Yes Archive, which I'm very grateful to them for because they're going to keep it available so people can continue to research and find articles there that are still relevant. And they're going to be continuing to do a monthly newsletter where they're going to draw on Yes, archives to tell stories about what's going on now. Yes, archives that are specifically relevant. So I recommend that. And otherwise, I'm just right now working on a draft of an op-ed about Palestine, which I hope I can get published. So I'm sort of doing a little of this and a little of that, but I don't feel like I have a clear focus. The chaos of what's going on nationally is so overwhelming, and I keep wanting to come back to my own and my own focus of writing, but I can't say that I've gotten there yet.Danielle (38:41):I hear you. Well, I hope you'll be back, and hopefully we can have more conversations. And just thanks a lot for being willing to just talk about stuff we don't know everything about.As always, thank you for joining us, and at the end of the podcast are notes and resources, and I encourage you to stay connected to those who are loving in your path and in your community. Stay tuned.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

  Contributors are listed here: Danielle S. Castillejo (Rueb), Cyon Edgerton, Rachael Reese, Chasity Malatesta, Debby Haase, Kim Frasier, Briana Cardenas, Holly Christy, Clare Menard, Marjorie Long, Cristi McCorkle, Terri Schumaker, Diana Frazier, Eliza Cortes Bast, Tracy Johnson, Sarah Van Gelder, Marwan, and more Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. You'll notice there's going to be some updated changes and different voices on the podcast this season. It's season five. It's October 1st, 2024. I haven't recorded a podcast since June of 2023, and at that time, if you've been following along in my town in Kitsap County, we were working through what would prove to be an extensive and prove to be an extensive fight for justice in our school district. And at this time, we have made some very significant shifts. I want to get into this episode to kind of catch you up on where I'm at, where the podcast is at, and hopefully as you listen to myself and some different voices on these upcoming podcasts, you understand that we have this fundamental common theme amongst us, which is our humanity. And when we drop down into that humanity, because our work, our lives, our families, there's all these poles and all these different ways for us to separate ourselves from our humanness and be busy or accomplish this or accomplish that.(00:01:52):And I know because I'm in there too, we actually separate ourselves from our neighbor. And so I'm hoping as we engage tough topics of politics and we get into the sticky points of it, that there's a sense that, yeah, I don't agree with that person or I agree with that person, but there is a sense that there is shared humanity. And so as we talk about these different subjects, I wanted to emphasize that first, an article was released in the fall last year saying in September of 2023 saying that there was, the school district's investigation had concluded and they had deemed that there was no racism in the North Kitsap School district. As you can imagine, a report like that on the front page of the paper, after all we'd been through after sitting through numerous hours of meetings listening to families and their experiences was disheartening.(00:02:45):We came to find out that some of the families felt or experienced what they deemed to be threatening tones from the investigators or understood that they could possibly be under penalty of perjury depending on what they answered. And I'm not saying that this was always the case, but the threat was on the table. And when you're dealing with working with majority world peoples who are marginalized in the United States, that threat can be very real. And the impact of it is very great. So I began to understand that this investigation wasn't actually looking for the truth and how to solve the problem. It was actually looking for a way of complete and utter defense against what these families had reported their students had experienced. It's a very different thing. And I think there were rumors like were these families going to sue the district, bring a lawsuit to the district?(00:03:41):And we've seen in neighboring school districts, just in recent times, lawsuits have been filed for much less. I mean, we had 90 original complaints. We have more people that had come forward as time had moved on. And yet there was never a move to actually file a lawsuit. We didn't file a lawsuit. We continued to move forward with our lives and think about our students. I think at some point in last fall of 2023, there was just a sense of deep despair like we put in years of effort. And the result was this report that basically attempted to delegitimize all the stories of all these families. It was horrible and heartbreaking and followed the fall. And in the late winter there was going to be a vote for this school bond. And as the yes for the bond campaign rolled out, led by a committee of yes folks, which included some Paul's Bowl rotary members and then the superintendent, it became clear to different community members that there were a lot of questions still to be asked, a lot of information we wanted to have and a lot of things that just felt like they were missing.(00:04:57):I'm not saying they were all missing, but there were pieces and details that appeared to be missing. And when we asked the questions similar to what happened with the complaints, we didn't get answers. The answers were couched in long paragraphs or explanations, and the architects seemed like they didn't have access to the buildings. Again, we didn't know all the details of what happened. And this is just a general recap. You can look at the ensuing political drama online. If you Google superintendent signs and polls Bowl, Washington, P-O-U-L-S-B-O Washington, you will find articles on NBC to Fox News to video clips, all of the above. There were signs all over our county, as I'm sure in your different counties or if you live in Kitsap, you've seen them political signs, vote yes on the bond, vote no on the bond, et cetera. And it appeared that signs were going missing.(00:06:02):And in one case, the signs were going missing often in one particular location and a pair of folks who are not married who became allied because they were both against the bond and had been putting up no on bond signs, decided to put up a wildlife cam and we're able to capture a person destroying the signs on video. And again, Google sbo, Google signs, Google Superintendent look for February 20, 24 articles and you'll see the ensuing reports of what happened. This became a chance for us actually to revisit our story because there's a theme of dishonesty from the top leadership. There was a theme of hiding. There's a theme of not giving all the information a theme of there's any extent we can go to that bumps up against the law. By the way, I think it's against the law to destroy political signs. So there's just this theme that you could break the law and get away with it.(00:07:08):We've seen in the top politics of our country down to the low level politics of our country. And what was our community going to do with all of this? We rallied together. For the first time in many years, there were literally hundreds of people on a zoom call for a school board meeting. News agencies showed up again, and sadly, our district was in the news for something else negative related to the top leadership. And it was very sad. The process. The superintendent was put on leave and resigned in June, but stopped working essentially closely with the school board. I think it was in March or April of 2024. I just remember that when the harm stops, when someone harmful is told by law enforcement or the law or someone else in a higher power to stop harming it, it's a relief. But also that's the time when all of the residual trauma sets in the trauma that you've been going through to be in proximity to someone in leadership and you're literally powerless to address it.(00:08:19):And I guess I bring this up to say that as we think about politics nationally, locally, whether it's a school board member or a president, I remember feeling challenged When I live in a small town, paulville was a small town. It is not like Seattle size. It's like got rural folks. There's folks that commute into the city of Seattle. We're, we're a mix of all different kinds of socioeconomic backgrounds. Our school district is now 38% Spanish speaking this year. There is a genuine mix. So when you're out and about in this small container, Kitsap's also very small too. It's rural, it's small. We're kind of contained on our own peninsula. When you're in this environment, the chances that you're going to see someone that you're know are really high, it's not like if you hate someone about, you're not going to run into Donald Trump here.(00:09:11):You're not going to run in here, run into Kamala Harris here. It's not like you're running into those folks, but you might run into your representative. You might run into the school board member from this district or another district. And how are you going to see that person that actually you not only disagree with, but you felt has been unjust to you? Costs a lot. I mean, money's one thing, but time, effort, family, reputation, allies, there is so much time involved and the way forward. You think it's clear when you're fighting on behalf of kids, you're advocating on behalf of kids. That feels really good. But the process to work through that advocacy often doesn't feel that great. You have to become allies with people you don't agree with. And so I think that just brings me back to where do we find our common humanity?(00:10:06):Where do we find space to occupy a same piece of land or a same meeting or a similar, we have similar causes, but maybe there's deep hurt between us and maybe that hurt is to the point where we're not going to ever talk to that person again, and how do we still see them as human? How do we still see them as valuable in this world? How do we still gain compassion? Those are things I ask myself and I don't have the answers. So I've included a number of folks asking a similar questions about humanness, about politics, about where they locate themselves in their various positions, their race, ethnicity, et cetera, and how do they come at this? And I hope you enjoy the following conversations because I conversations or talks from these people, commentary from these people as we hear all different perspectives. Now you may hear someone and be like, I can get down with that. I agree with that. And then there's another person you might be like, no way, no effing way. And so I encourage you to listen, stay curious with yourself and have talks with your family about how you're going to engage this political season.Speaker 2 (00:11:26):Danielle asked me how I see being human in the age of politics, and I'm struggling answering this because A, I am not a politician or have really any experience as a politician. I have experience as a community based organizer. So I am speaking on this on the outside of things. And then also I'm a white woman able bo, heterosexual woman. And the politics and the systems of power were built for me as a white person to thrive. And so I just want to locate myself in that because my view is of a privileged view. White folks can step in and out of politics without it really harming us. And that's a problem, obviously, and it distorts our view of politics.(00:12:55):But with this question, I have become more and more angry and upset with politics, policies, systems of power, the more that I unlearn and learn about my internal white supremacy culture and ways of being. And as the genocide in Palestine and other countries continue, I don't think the political structures are here for us. They're not people centered, they're not community centered. I think all politics are really about power. And so as an outsider, as not a politician and as a white woman, so those are flawed views. I'm coming from a flawed view. I see how politics change people or they make bad people even worse. I know local white folks that are in it for power and just continue on searching for more and more power. And I've witnessed community organizers join politics to really try to change the systems. But I don't think politics or the system was made to help humans. I don't think the system is for humans. And it hurts people, it divides people. I don't really know how to answer this question because I don't think politics and humanists can actually go together, not the way that they're set up now.Speaker 3 (00:15:09):These questions are so beautiful and just so right on time for this time, we're in right before an election where there's so much stress. My name is Sara Van Gelder and I am a friend of Danielle's and a resident of Kitsap County for many years have I was one of the founders of YES magazine. I also founded a group called People's Hub, which teaches community folks how to do local organizing, actually peer to peer teaching. I didn't do the teaching, but connected people together to teach each other and been associated as a ally of the Suquamish tribe at various times in my life, but I did not ever speak for them.(00:15:54):So my own humanity in the context of this political moment, I like to stay in a place of fierce love and do when I can. I can't say I'm always there. I'm often triggered. I often go into a place of feeling really fearful and anxious about what's going on in the world and more particularly the polarization and the rise of which what I don't like to call, but I think is actually a form of fascism. And when I talk about fierce, it means being willing to say the truth as I see it, but also love, which is that that is the motivator. I don't like seeing people get hurt and I'm willing to stand up and be one of the people to say what I see, but not in a way that is intended to degrade anybody. I am a mother, I'm a grandmother, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister. And being connected to people through love and that sense of willingness to protect one another, that's at the core. So even if I disagree with you, I'm not going to wish you harm.Speaker 1 (00:17:12):Wow. Wow. Even if I disagree with you, I'm not going to wish you harm. And I think what I've heard just particularly lately around the talk of immigration, let's say for an example, is the talk about immigration in the context of a particular city. For instance, they've used Springfield, Ohio over and over. It's come up many times and the demonization, the dehumanization of those immigrants, the miscategorizing of their status, it seems like some of this can get point hyper-focused on one particular example to make a political point or to drive fear home across different context, different communities. So when you think about that, do you wish those people harm that are making those accusations? How do you engage a tough subject like that?Speaker 3 (00:18:15):Yeah, it's a really hard one, and I could tell you what I aspire to do and what I actually do a lot of times is avoid people who have that level of disagreement with, because I'm not sure I have enough in common to even have a good conversation. So I don't feel like I'm as good at this as I'd like to be. But what I try to do is to first off, to recognize that when we're in the fight or flight sort of reptilian brain, when we're super triggered, we have the least capacity to do good work of any kind. So I try to get out of that mindset, and in part I do that by trying to listen, by trying to be an active listener and try to listen not just for the positions. The positions are ones that will likely trigger me, but to listen for what's beneath the positions, what is somebody yearning for?(00:19:10):What is it that they're really longing for beneath those positions that I find so harmful and so triggering. So in many cases, I think what people are looking for in this immigration debate is a sense of belonging. They want to believe that their community is a place where they belong and somehow believe that having other people who are from different cultures move in reduces the chances that they'll be able to belong. So what would it mean if they could feel like they belonged along with the Haitians in their community that it didn't have to be an either or is there a way to have that kind of conversation that what if we all belong(00:19:54):In that respect? The thing that I am sometimes most tempted to do, which is to cancel someone, if you will, that actually feeds into that dynamic of not belonging because I'm telling that person also, you don't belong in my life. You don't belong in my community. So it's not easy to do, but I do feel like we have a better chance of doing that locally than we have doing it nationally because locally we do have so many things we have in common. We all want to drink clean water, we want clean air. We want places our kids can go to school where they will belong and they will feel good. So if we can switch the conversation over to those deeper questions, and I think one thing I've learned from hanging out with indigenous folks is the way in which they think about the seven generations and how much more expansive of you that can give to you when you think that way.(00:20:54):Because instead of thinking about again, that immediate threat, that immediate personal sense of anxiety, you start thinking, well, what's going to work for my kids and my grandkids? I don't want them to be experiencing this. Well, that means something about having to learn how to get along with other people, and we want our kids to get along with each other. We want them to have friends and family, and when they marry into a different culture, we want to feel good about our in-laws. I mean, we want our neighborhood to be a place where our kids can run around and play outside. I mean, there's so many things that once you start expanding the scope to other generations, it makes it so clear that we don't want that kind of society that's full of hate and anxiety.Speaker 1 (00:21:44):Wow, seven generations. It is true. I do a lot of reading and I think about res, are you familiar with Resa and my grandmother's hands? And he talks about that the shifts we want to make in society, the shifts towards being more in our actual physical bodies and present with one another and the reps that it takes, the way we're disrupting it now to make a dent in the 400 plus year history of slavery and the act of embodying ourselves from the harm that has been done is going to take five to seven generations. It's not that he's not for change now. He absolutely is. And just having that long term, almost like marathon view perspective on what change has either for ourselves that can give ourselves grace and that we can also give others in our proximity grace, while also not engaging in active harm. I think there's an important part there. Does that make sense?Speaker 3 (00:22:51):Oh, it makes so much sense. And it's like that long-term view doesn't suggest we can put off working. It only even happens in the long term if we start today, we take the first steps today. So yes, absolutely makes sense. I'm not sure I'm patient enough to wait for all those generations, but I want to be keeping them in my mind and heart when I act. How is this going to contribute to their possibilities? So part of that is by thinking about these questions of belonging, but it's also questions of exclusion more structurally. I think the fact that our society has such deep exclusion economically of so many people, there's so many people across the board who feel so precarious in their lives. I think that sets us up for that kind of scapegoating because ideally what we'd be saying is, if you can't afford to go to college, if you can't afford a medical bill, if you can't afford a place to rent, there's a problem with our economy.(00:23:56):Let's look at that problem with our economy and do something about it. And I believe people have gotten so disempowered. So feeling that that's beyond them to do that. Then the next thing that the demagogues will do is say, well, let's look for a scapegoat then. Let's look for a scapegoat of somebody who's less powerful than you and let's blame them because that'll give you a temporary sense of having power. And that's how, I mean it's not unique to our situation. It's how fascism so often unfolds and how historically groups have been scapegoated. And I think we need to turn our attention back to what is the real cause of our anxiety. And I think the real cause of our anxiety is economic and political disfranchisement. Once we can actually tackle those topics, we can see how much more we can do when we work together across all isms and make things happen for a world in which everyone has a place.Speaker 1 (00:24:55):So then if you know people in your sphere, let's say, and don't name them here, that border on the narrative that says, if you disenfranchise someone less powerful than you, that will bring you some relief. If you have people like that in your life, Sarah, how do you approach them? How do you engage with them if you're willing to share any personal experience?Speaker 3 (00:25:28):Yeah, so my biggest personal experience with that was working as an activist alongside the Suquamish tribe when a lot of their immediate neighbors were trying to keep them from building housing, keep them from building relationships with other governments and actually took them to court trying to actually end their sovereign right to be a tribe. So that was my most direct involvement and that was 20 years ago. So it seems like ancient history, but I learned a lot from that, including from working with tribal elders who provided a lot of leadership for us and how we should work. And one of the things that I've learned from that and also from being a Quaker, is that the notion of how you talk to people in a nonviolent way, and a lot of that starts with using I statements. So when people in my neighborhood would say really disparaging things about the tribe, I would respond with, I feel this. I believe the tribe has sovereign rights. I believe they have always been here and have the right to govern themselves and build homes for their members. And it's harder, it's not as triggering when somebody says, I instead of starts with a word(00:26:58):When somebody says, you immediately have this responsive defensiveness because it's unclear what's going to come next and whether you're going to have to defend yourself when you say I, you're standing in your own power and your own belief system and you're offering that to someone else with the hope that they might empathize and perhaps even perhaps be convinced by part of what you have to say. But in the meantime, you haven't triggered a worsening of relationships. And one of the things I really didn't want to do was create anything that would further the violence, verbal most cases, violence against the tribe, sort of getting people even further triggered. So it was just really important to always be looking for ways to be very clear and uncompromising on really important values, but be willing to compromise on ones that were not important. So for example, when we were working on getting the land return to the tribe that had been a state park, we asked people what's important to you about how this park functions in the future? Because the tribe can take that into account they, but the idea that it is their land, the home of chief Seattles, that was not something we could compromise on.Speaker 1 (00:28:17):I love that using I statements intentionally checking in with yourself so you're not engaging in behaviors that trigger another person further into more defensive mode. Sarah, what are some resources or recommendations you could leave with me or us? When you think about engaging people and staying very present, it's a very human stance to say, I think I believe this versus an accusatory tone like you are this, you are that.Speaker 3 (00:28:50):I think the nonviolent communication that Marshall Rosenberg developed is very powerful. He has a very specific technique for having those kinds of conversations that are very focused on that notion about the I statement and also reflecting back what you hear from other people, but then being willing to use statements about what I need because saying that puts me in a position of being vulnerable, right? Saying I actually need something from you. You obviously have the choice of whether you're going to give it to me or not, but I need to be in a place where I can feel safe when we have these conversations. I need to feel like I live in a community where people are so then the other person has that choice, but you're letting them know and you're again standing in your own power as somebody who's self-aware enough, it also invites them to be self-aware of what they need.Speaker 1 (00:29:46):I love that. Yeah, keep going.Speaker 3 (00:29:50):I think there are other resources out there. I'm just not calling 'em to mind right now, but I think nonviolent communications is a really good one.Speaker 1 (00:29:58):And locally, since you talked locally, what are maybe one or two things locally that you regularly engage in to kind of keep up your awareness to keep yourself in a compassionate mode? How do you do that for youSpeaker 3 (00:30:16):Being out in nature? Okay,Speaker 1 (00:30:19):Tell me about that.Speaker 3 (00:30:22):Oh, in Japan, they call it forest bathing, but it's just a fancy term for being in some places it's really natural. There's beautiful walks. We're very fortunate here in the northwest that there are so many beautiful places we can walk. And when you're surrounded by preferably really intact ecosystems where you can feel the interactions going on among the critters and the plants and just let that wash over you because part of that as well, it kind of helps take some of the pressure off. It sort of releases some of us being kind of entangled in our own ego and lets us just have greater awareness that we're actually entangled in this much larger universe. It's much, much older and we'll go on way after we're gone and extends to so many different ways of being from a bird to a tree, to a plate of grass, and we're all related.Speaker 4 (00:31:33):Hey, this is Kim. So just a brief background. I am a 41-year-old biracial woman. I am a mom, a nurse, a child of an immigrant, and I identify as a Christian American. Thanks Danielle for asking me to chime in. I just wanted to touch base on this current political climate. I would say as a liberal woman, I really enjoy diversity and hearing and seeing different perspectives and engaging in meaningful conversation. Unfortunately, I feel like right now we are so polarized as a country and it's not like the air quote, good old days where you could vote for a politician that you felt like really represented your ideals and kind of financially what you value, policies, et cetera. Now I feel like it has become really a competition and an election of human rights, and I think for me, that's kind of where I draw my own personal boundary.(00:32:40):I think it's important to share different perspectives, and I think I do have a unique perspective and I enjoy hearing others' perspectives as well, but for me, I do draw the line at human rights. So I have learned over the years to just not engage when it comes to issues of individuals being able to choose what to do with their body, women in particular, it's terrifying to me as a nurse and a woman and a mother of a daughter who could potentially be in a situation at some point and not be allowed to make choices about her own body with a doctor. Also as the child of an immigrant, I was raised by a white mother, Irish German Catholic, and my father is an immigrant that has been here since 19 76, 77. He is from Trinidad and Tobago. He's actually served in the military and I have a hard time with vilifying people of color trying to come to this country and make a better life for themselves and for their future and their future generations, which is exactly what my dad was doing. So to me, it's a no-brainer, right? Not to tell anybody what to do or how to vote, but I think that it's really hard right now to hold space for individuals who may be attacking my rights as a woman, my ability as a nurse to be able to care for patients and really what this country was supposedly built on, which is being a melting pot and allowing any and everyone here to be able to pursue the American dream and make a life for themselves and their loved ones.Speaker 5 (00:34:34):As soon as the topic turns to politics, I feel myself cringe, and then I want to internally retreat a bit. Looking back over the past eight plus years, I realize I have been feeling like this for a long time. My body holds memories of heated, uncomfortable confrontive distancing and sometimes horrifying conversations with friends and at times, even with family, I'm tired as most people tired from the collective traumas. We have all lived through political, racial, and pandemic related. Eight years ago, I think I worked to try and remain objective. I told myself that my job was just to hear the other person with curiosity, but doing that was not enough to help me stay well in the midst of what I truly could not then and cannot still control. I've come to realize that I have to stay connected to my own feelings, to my own limitations.(00:35:37):I have to make space to feel my disappointment, my disgust, my fear, my sadness, my powerlessness, my ache, even my longing still when it comes to the realm of politics, I have to make room for my own humanity and then I have to be willing to share that, not simply be a listening ear for others. What's been most difficult for me as politics has driven division and disconnection is the loss of healthy dialogue and conversation. It feels to me like relational loss is there where it doesn't seem like it always has to be. I am passionate about the table, about creating and cultivating space at a table for all the voices and for all of the stories to belong. I still believe in this, and when I'm connected to my own humanity, it makes me far more open to the humanity of another, knowing my own stories that are being stirred up and activated by injustice, by what I perceive to be irresponsible politicians and policies that don't make sense to me and at times scare me when I'm in the presence of those who hold very different political views from me.(00:37:02):I have to actively choose to not just tolerate listening to them, but instead to try and listen for something more. I try to listen for the fear that often fuels their positions. The fear is always storied and the stories offer taste of their humanity and oftentimes their experience of suffering, which always offers the opportunity for empathy. I can't do it all the time. Some situations don't afford the time for curiosity and sharing. When that happens, I need space afterwards, space to release what I don't need or want to hold that I heard space to feel my own humanity again, and then space to choose to remember the humanity of the other person, and that is all an active practice. I think that othering people into political camps and categories is easily available and every time it happens, we lose more and more of our collective humanity and we feed the machine of hate that profits from our conversational and emotional laziness.Speaker 6 (00:38:11):I can't say it's always easy, that's for sure. What I try to do is see another person, whether it's around the political views or other things that I may not agree with somebody about or I might even actually see them as a quote enemy, is for one thing, I drop into my heart and get out of my head about ideas, views, and just try to be present in my heart as much as possible with as little judgment as possible and recognize the essence of the other person, the essence that's inside all the beliefs and the views, and recognizing also that we all have some sort of wounding from our lives, maybe our lineages, our generations, maybe even past lives and or trauma, and that that can obscure the essence of who we are, and I try to really remember that essence in another person.(00:39:34):And in relation, how do you see your own humanity? The other question you ask, how do you see your own humanity in the context of political dialogue? I have to say that's not really a question I thought about. I thought about how to see the humanity in others, so I really appreciate this question. I think if I start othering the other, if I get into too much judgment, I feel like I lose my own sense of humanity or at least the type of human I hope and wish to be. What helps me to I guess, discern when I'm in my own humanity, when I'm in the best of places, I guess I don't know how else to word that is I tune into my values. What do I value most and am I living by those values in the way that I want to be human In this world, for example, for me, integrity is super important as well as respect and compassion.(00:40:44):I'm not saying I'm always in this place, but these values that I aspire to live by help bring me into my own humanity and almost like check, checking in, tuning in checkpoints in a way, when I speak about compassion, sometimes people, all of what I'm saying, I want to, even though I'm maybe trying to see the essence of someone, I do try to discern that if there's being harm done, I'm not okaying any harm at all. And when I try to live by compassion, I feel like that's when I can really see the humanity in others and compassion for myself. I view compassion as a very active verb, a little bit different than empathy. Just that compassion is seeing the suffering, but wanting to do something about it and doing something for me. Compassion includes action, and sometimes that action is helping to disrupt or interrupt harm that's happening, and that's how I can show up in my humanity for others is the best I can do is acting as well as being that balance both, andSpeaker 7 (00:42:23):I'm Diana, she her and I didn't use to see myself in politics the way that I do now. It took decades for me to really start to get a grasp about who I actually am and how the ways I view politics, the ways I vote, who I support, how it actually affects me, and I spent a lot of years voting for things that hurt me without even realizing I was doing that because I was following the messaging and believing it. Ultimately that being a good fill in the blanks meant voting for fill in the blanks or being a good fill in the blanks meant donating to or supporting or whatever, fill in the blanks. And I hurt myself by doing that because I wasn't listening to my own knowing or my own intuition or looking in the mirror at who am I? What kind of world do I want to live in? I didn't ask myself those questions. I did what I thought I was supposed to do to fall in line, and there were people in my life during that who spoke truth, and it was true because it was individual to them. It was, here's what I know about me and here's what this policy means for me. And I didn't get it. I certainly didn't get it.(00:44:09):I judged it inside my own head, and yet those people who spoke their own individual truth are the people who were able to shed light through the cracks in my facade. And years later, I remember some of the things that people said or that they posted or whatever because those were the light that I saw through the cracks and it was so memorable, even though at the time I might have been irritated by it, it was memorable because I loved and respected these people and so their words didn't matter to me, even though at the time I very much disagreed and I hope that I will be allowed to be the light in some people's cracks because I know for a fact there's so many people like me who haven't actually looked at who they are, what they want, what kind of world do they want to live in if they separate themselves from the ideology of where they work or where they go to church or their family of origin or what their spouse is telling them, no honey, who are you? What do you want? And when people can be brave enough to do that, its everything up.Speaker 8 (00:45:46):My name is Marwan Cameron, and I was asked to answer a couple questions here, and the first question was, how do you see your own humanity in the context of political dialogue? And I had to think about this question. Our humanity is front and center when we talk about politics primarily because the issues that affect us, meaning the black community are often sidelined or ignored. I'll share some examples of that. Democrats and Republicans both speak about healthcare, the economy crime, but when they have centered those conversations around the realities they face, when do you actually see that take reparations. For example, we hear a lot about tax cuts or healthcare reform, but nothing about reparations for chattel slavery, for foundational black Americans which are owed to black people for centuries of exploitation. You can even look at our prison system where men are going to prison without HIV and very low percentages and then coming out several times higher when they are released from jail and prison, and I'll get into some of those stats. Also.(00:47:15):When we look at black men that are falsely accused of sexual assault, unfortunately we go back to Emmett Till and we never really talk about the contemporary men. I have a list of a hundred black men that have been falsely accused in the last five years alone. Albert Owens 2023, Christian Cooper, 2020, Joshua Wood, Maurice Hastings, Jonathan Irons, 2000, Anthony Broadwater, 2021, Mark Allen, 2022, Franklin, west 2020, Michael Robertson, Shaw, Taylor, Dion, Pearson 2021, Stanley Race 2019 Rashan Weaver 2020. Henry Lee McCollum, 2020. David Johnson, Jamel Jackson, Charles Franklin, Kevin Richardson, Raymond Santana, Corey Wise, you, Celine, Aron McCray, Brian Banks, which is a pretty famous name, Wilbert Jones. That's just 20 names in the last five years of a list of a hundred that I have that have been falsely accused of sexual assault, these aren't things that we talk about. Question two, how do you make space for folks in your proximity who did not share your political views as a heterosexual black male in this country, you really have no choice but to make space for others' Political views as in question number one, we are really only allowed to speak about injustices or political needs in the framework of the black community as a whole.(00:49:25):Matter what side you find yourself on, whether you're a Republican, we're oftentimes they straight up say, we're not acknowledging what your needs are. We're not going to do anything about your needs. You can come over here and vote with us if you want. As Trump said, what have you got to lose? What have Democrats done for you? Or you can look at the democratic side where in the last three elections, it's been existential against Donald Trump. And when Donald Trump won and then lost and is running again, we still haven't seen things like the repeal of qualified immunity, things like atoning for the most heinous crimes that the United States has committed in chattel slavery against black men. I've made space. We have made space as black men in regards to those who do not share our political views. Black men have fought in every war for the United States of America. We have stood up, stood behind, been sacrificed for the good of almost every cause, and we're told not yet. It's not the right time. We too need, have needs, and it becomes a zero sum game.Speaker 9 (00:51:19):Growing up, we had Sunday dinners at my grandparents. Conversation was always lively with my family, talking loudly, fast, and often right over each other. We talked about everything, what was happening around us, our community, what was in the paper and on the news that evening. We didn't always agree. In fact, I think my grandparents debated opposite sides. Just for fun, I fondly remember my grandmother saying, your grandpa and I are canceling each other's votes at the polls. They would both smile and sometimes laugh. Considering my upbringing, I was surprised to hear my instructor at cosmetology school lay down the law. Politics and religion were never to be discussed, not in school, and certainly not if we wanted to be successful professionally. I learned to smile and nod. I strive to find common ground with the opinion of guests. I was raised not to look for any offense with ideas that contrasted my own.(00:52:16):It takes both a left and a right wing to make the eagle fly and what a boring world this would be in if we all agreed. But then Trump happened up until he achieved power. Generally speaking, whether the law or policy was written by conservatives, liberals, moderates, there was a basis of bettering the American way of life. To be clear, this wasn't always the advancement of protection we agreed with, but we could see the logic of it. For the most part, Trump's leadership consists of a hatred for people who are not like him. Early on in his campaign, he told Americans to police their neighbors if they were of a specific religion he has built upon dehumanization and vilification every day sense. My mother lived in Germany for a few years and a town not far from Dau. It was the early 1960s and not yet recovered from World War ii.(00:53:21):This quaint little town overlooks the Bavarian Alps with architects right out of a storybook and a stunning view of Munich. It was evidence that the residents of this charming quiet village were aware that 800,000 people came in and no one left. History books paint the picture that everyone was scared of speaking up for fear they would be next. But with critical thinking, we know many of those approved. They've been listening to the nonsense of their leaders, their beliefs that Jews, the disabled homosexuals, immigrants were a burden on the healthcare system, education system, taking their German jobs, businesses, and homes. They were demonized so strongly, so powerfully. They were no longer human, no longer their neighbors, doctors, teachers, bakers seamstresses their talents, their skills and their very humanity no longer existed. We know this to be true, but what we don't talk about is the slope that good people slid down that enabled this to take place in the coffee shops, birthday parties, sitting with friends, playing cards, Sunday family dinners, these words came up.(00:54:43):Hitler's rhetoric spread and thoughtful kind people did not correct their friends, family, guests and clients. There were Nazis and sympathizers, but there were good people that saw through Hitler's dumpster fire of lies. These are the people I wonder if they ever slept well again. Could they ever look at themselves with honor and integrity? Trump proudly uses this method. He has people willing to do his bidding. He has sympathizers, but what he doesn't have is my silence, my obedience. My voice is the born power. I have to stand strong and correct the lies he tells and the people in my circle repeat. I will lose clients and friends taking this action, and that's a price I'm willing to pay, but I'm not willing to live out the rest of my days knowing that I didn't do everything in my power to stop in.Speaker 10 (00:55:49):How do you make space for folks in your proximity who don't share your political views? I am lucky that I live next to my parents and that my mother-in-law lives in a small home on our property. For years, there was a constant strife between my parents, myself, husband, and my mother-in-law due to political and religious beliefs, uncomfortable dinners, having to watch what you say, an aura of judgment that would seem to permeate family gatherings. They were quite the norm. And each time that they would leave, I would feel a sense of relief. Sometimes someone would decide not to come or just tell us that they needed a break. This would create less tension, but I worry that someone would feel left out or that they would feel judged if they weren't present. And actually that would happen more often or not, especially in my time of anger before and during Covid.(00:56:40):As mentioned before, when I decided that I needed to focus on my own sense of happiness and live up to my values and beliefs, I decided that my home would become a politics, religion free zone. I wanted my home to be a safe for everyone. And this was a tough transition. And what was most difficult was creating boundaries for our parents, having the hard conversations about why we're asking people to withhold their opinions on politics and religion and to focus on grandkids sports and family celebrations, et cetera. For the first few months, I was constantly reminding everyone of the rule, but eventually we all seemed to settle in and even catch ourselves when we deviated from how sex expectations, dinners and events became more pleasant. And when our guests would leave, I didn't have to decompress or worry about how to fix an issue or soothe someone's feelings.(00:57:27):This one simple step has been a game changer, and it's not always perfect, and sometimes people will slip up, but instead of taking on the issue, we will move the conversation to another topic. Some would say that we need to talk about the issues and debate their merits so that we can grow and come together. But no, after finding my purpose, I don't believe that being right is more important than someone else's feelings. I want everyone who sits at my table and breaks spread with me to feel loved and valued. It's not perfect because we're human, but we're trying one dinner at a timeSpeaker 11 (00:58:03):To how do I hold my own humanity? In the context of political dialogue, one of the first things that comes to mind for me is, at least in political conversations, what defines my humanity? When I think about politics, much of our politics is really about power and privilege, of which I happen to have both. And so when I'm thinking about politics, I'm thinking about my social location as a able-bodied, middle class, heterosexual Christian White woman, I carry privilege in almost every aspect of that identity, at least here in the United States. And so when I'm thinking about humanity and political dialogue, our political system has historically always been and continues to be set up to serve people with my type of humanity very well. The thing that I'm constantly trying to keep in my mind is what about the humanity of my brothers and sisters experiencing oppression, marginalization when it comes to my voice and my vote in political situations, I have over the years had to learn to think less about how can I use my vote and my voice to engage in politics in a way that benefits me because I'm already benefiting from our system.(00:59:42):Our system is set up to benefit people like me who carry great levels of social privilege. What I really want to know as I'm trying to use my voice and my vote wisely now, is how do I leverage both of those things, my voice, my vote, as well as my power and privilege to engage in political dialogue in ways that fix broken systems. So I am oftentimes not actually voting or advocating for the things that would benefit me the most or necessarily align perfectly with my theological or political ideals. I'm looking at where are the most broken places in our system? Where is our government currently oppressing individuals the most? And how can my vote and my voice be used to leverage our politics in such a way that those broken systems begin to get fixed and healed over time so that those whose humanity looks different than mine are receiving the same amount of privilege of assistance of power that they should be.(01:00:57):And when it comes to dealing with those that I'm in proximity with who have very different political ideologies than myself, of which I will say in my current context, there are quite a few. I am constantly having to remind myself to focus on core values, values over stances that our conversations and our engagement with one another centers not so much around opinions about specific political stances or issues as much as the core values that we share. If my core value is for equality and equity, if my core value is that we're caring for the poor and the marginalized, then regardless of what stances I might have on certain issues, my voice and my vote represents those core values. And I've found that even when certain stances might be different, when we dig into the core values that are at the root of our decision-making, there's oftentimes a lot more common ground than I ever expect there to be.Speaker 12 (01:02:06):This recording is for the fabulous Danielle Castillo. I think what I am seeing right now as I think about how to welcome people's humanity and politics are a few key things that are both shocking and I would say disappointing in a day and age where we seem to want to tolerate people not being locked into binary spaces, we have relegated differences and opinion and viewpoints into a bipartisan politic. And what that does is that means that there are people who are in and who are out. And we've had to embrace things that we both love and hate if we ascribe to any one of those bipartisan objectives. And so we've had to in some ways, in our own humanity, violate pieces of ourselves to say, well, I align this part one way, but even though I categorically reject their views on this another way. And then regardless of whatever spectrum you're on inside of that political continuum, and it's hard because at that point, if we say in a lot of other spaces that there's space for nuance and there's space for gray, then why here do we land in those spaces?(01:03:16):And so that would be the first that it is an either or, and we seem to be comfortable, most comfortable that way. And then to demonize and villainize somebody who's in the either or space, instead of allowing for the gray, you're either all for me or all against me, and you can't live somewhere in the middle. The second thing that would be shocking and disappointing for me is the way that we've been able to start arranging the things that we can tolerate. And so I can say, well, I love this candidate because I love these three things and I agree with them and I hate these four things, but they're not that bad. And you love this candidate, you love the other candidate for these three things, but you hate them for those four things. And the fact that you don't hate 'em enough over those four things means that you're a terrible person.(01:04:02):And I find that just so interesting and so sad that we've been able to say, well, the four things I can stomach that I don't like are somehow more or less worse than the four things you feel like you could tolerate or not tolerate. And so my list of sins or offenses that are easily navigable, somehow I get to become the moral compass over what should be enough or not enough to disqualify somebody for public service. I think at the end of the day, what makes us hard is that we see people in the middle as somehow exhibiting some sort of cowardice. And I think we're pushing people to violate their own humanity and say, as my experience changes and as the neighborhood changes and the people around me change, and my own philosophy changes that I can't stand in a faithful middle and say, well, I agree with some of this, but I don't agree with some of that.(01:04:54):And we've called those people cowards instead of principled moderates, and we've shamed them into saying, well, you have to choose something. And I think that is so unkind. And I think really at the end of the day, we are asking people to violate their own humanity and their own understanding of who they are and their own sense of who they are as a person by saying that they have to agree one way if they want to be a human or be a woman or be a person of color or be a person of faith. And I think it's both sides. I think every side is complicit. At the end of the day, what is really hard is that I think most people want to vote for the person that is going to lead well, and they want that person to be a good person. They want them to be an upright person.(01:05:37):They want them to be an authentic person, the same person behind closed doors as they are in the public face. And I would say, I don't think that's most people who choose politicking as a vocation, I believe that so much of their job is diplomacy and having to be a lot of faces in a lot of places. And so asking for that kind of authenticity and consistency in a social media world is almost asking the impossible. I don't think it totally is impossible, but I think it's exceptionally hard. Many of the things that we want to ascribe to one individual and how they uphold or represent their own party are carefully crafted narratives by a team of people who are professional politicians and marketers, and to ask them to give you an authentic person, their job is to not give you an authentic person. Their job is to give you an avatar that you feel you can most connect with so you can make the decision they want you to make.(01:06:33):And that is really for me, the reality of what we're up against right now is that we want to say we're voting for ideologies, and in reality we're voting for a carefully crafted narrative that is crafted by people who want you to believe a particular way. And I know that feels kind of negative, and that makes me so sad to even voice that out loud and to vocalize that out loud. But I would say that I hope in some way that we experience real freedom and real understanding of what it means to be a global citizen and to be a citizen of this country, is that we understand that. And the complexity of who I am as a person and how I interact with other people and how they understand their own complexity and their own humanity means that I can believe a lot of things that belong in a lot of different camps.(01:07:19):And that's okay. That's what honestly, being intrinsically American means, but also just to understand our own humanity in the global context is there are things that I will feel one way about and they squarely belong in one camp, but there are other things I believe that belong in another camp. And both of those things can be true for me without somebody demanding that I carry some sort of alliance or allegiance to one person. I think that's so gross and so foul at the end of the day. I think what makes America so interesting and so fascinating, but I also think so beautiful and so compelling and so desiring for people who are coming into our borders, is that there is this understanding that I can stand squarely as an individual person and be able to express myself as who I am as an individual and also belong to a collective that makes space for that.(01:08:14):And that is intrinsically what it means to be America. I'm free to be us, but I'm also free to be me. And so I think politics pushes us into a narrative that is against intrinsically who we say we are, and that really is the basis of freedom. And so that's what I would feel about that. Now, this is an added bonus, and I know you didn't ask for this, Danielle, but I'm going to give it to you anyways because I firmly believe this. I think it is more dehumanizing, and I think it is so incredibly sad that we don't allow for people to be principled moderates. That we are sanctifying the ability to castrate people's ability to be able to stand in the middle. And we vilify them as being weak or vilify them as being cowards because their understanding of what is actually evil is.(01:09:09):It's a broad spectrum. And to say that there is good everywhere, it is true to say there is evil everywhere is true. And how people interface with both of those things is true. And so I hate that we have become okay at using our theology and using our social media platforms and using our politicking as throwing stones for people who say, I want to hold a faithful middle. And that faithful middle means that I can believe a multitude of things and that I stand in the own gray and the nuance of who I am and how I understand my neighbors and what that looks like. And we know that some of those people are standing with compassion and with courage. And to call those people cowards, I think is the most ignorant, I'm trying to find the kindest way to say this, right? So I think it is just absolutely ignorant.(01:10:00):And then we've used quotes out of context and scriptures out of context to tell those people that somehow they're bad and evil people. And it's just not true that they're honestly sometimes the bridge builders and the unifier in places where they are trying to be peacemakers and they're trying to be people of peace. They're trying to be people of belonging and welcome. And so they're holding a faithful middle to say, my heart is going to take enough of a beating where people may misunderstand me, but I'm going to make it big enough and available enough where everybody can come sit under my tent. And I think that's brave work. I think that is courageous work, and I think that is humbling work that we could learn more from instead of castigating really more than anything else. So those are my 2 cents, honestly, more than anything else.(01:10:51):The last 2 cents I could probably give you that I think is so shameful is I am tired of any political party that tells me that they are doing more for working class Americans or doing more for poor people, and yet they're spending 2 billion to fly somebody around and send me junk mail to my home. I would much rather you stop buying ad space and then you actually go and serve the poor and somebody takes a picture of you doing that on accident. And I actually get to see that and go, oh my gosh, they're actually serving the poor. Do not tell me you're serving the poor or serving working class Americans and you haven't talked to one or seen one in a very long time. And my God, you have not lived in our shoes. You have not lived on our pay scales. You have not come in and volunteered regularly, and you only show up when there's a camera crew doing that.(01:11:34):That is so gross to me, and I hate that you send me mail about it and spend 2 billion fundraising for things like that. And yet that money could go to the poor and that money could go to programs. If there's one thing that makes me want to soapbox so bad, it is that more than anything else, I don't want to hear what your fundraising dollars have done to actually help your campaign. And that thing becomes a total waste when you lose. And that money doesn't go into the pockets of people. That money goes into the pockets of advertisers and radio stations and TV stations and social media influencers and all sorts of nonsense and actually doesn't go into the pockets and the hands of people who are feeding the poor that is garbage. So I feel very strongly about that, but I dunno if this is what you need, but that's how I make space. I make space for people who live at Principled Middle because I think blessed are the peacemakers and I want them to feel safe with me.Speaker 13 (01:12:26):Good morning. My name is Luis Cast. How do I see my own humanity in this political context? Well, it's simple as that. I'm a human being. I'm not a pawn or a little peace on a game. I'm a human being born and raised in Mexico, but I live here in the United States over half of my life now, and I'm a human being. And no matter what the promises they give me or what they're going to do in government, I'm still just a human being that wants the best for me and my family. And that's what they need to address the human being in us regarding not regarding color or race or where they come from. Treat us a as human beings. And the other question, how do I make space for folks who do not share my political view?(01:13:46):Well, again, it's just simple. I was taught that love whoever disagree with you or even your enemy. But to be honest, that's the hardest thing to do. People that don't agree with you or you don't agree with them, and sometimes they even hurt you. But I try to do my best, honestly, just to listen and sometimes put myself in their shoes because everybody has been brought up differently in families, cultures, regions of the country from the south, from New England, they call in the west in California. So we all have different views. So I just don't have an ear and sometimes an opinion, but mostly an ear so they can really listen to what they, I believe, where they come from, where they come from. So that is what I try to do. No, perfect, but that's what I try to do.Speaker 14 (01:14:59):Hi, my name is Claire. I am a white, cisgender, heterosexual woman. I live in Paulsboro, Washington. So the first question is how do I see my humanity in the context of this current political moment? And I'd start off by saying I come from a pretty privileged place, like my own personal humanity isn't very threatened just because I'm white, I'm straight, and yeah, my own family background. I have a lot of support and I'm not ever threatened with becoming homeless or something if I can't pay my bills. But still things are really scary for so many people right now. So I definitely feel that all the time. And I would say that it's just a really disheartening time. A lot of the, I mean, pretty much all politicians, I'd say are very untrustworthy at a local and national level. And I think we're all seeing that, especially in the context of what's happening in Gaza.(01:16:26):For the last over a year now, all these politicians that felt like they were progressive and would speak out when heinous things happened, most of them have gone silent or completely denied what's happening in Gaza, or just said really brief empty words, always proceeded by talking about Israeli hostages. So yeah, it's been terrifying because we realize the extent of politicians care for the general public and for the global wellbeing of humanity. And it only stretches so far because first and foremost, they're concerned about their own and standing in the political world because we've seen a lot of people lose their reelections for standing up for Palestinians.(01:17:38):And I think what's really disheartening is seeing it at a local level. In some ways, we expect national politicians to be pretty sleazy and skirt around really big, terrible, important issues. But seeing it at a local level has been really terrifying because I mean, they said it was then a couple decades ago, like 30, 40 years ago, there's more crises going on. And that really, for me, I've always thought, well, this is how it's always been. There's just the media reports on more stuff. We have social media, we can't hide a lot of things. So I don't know if that's true or not, but I mean, it probably is. We're in a time of climate crisis too, so it makes sense that things are just, they're not slowing down.(01:18:49):I don't know where I was going with that, but yeah, I guess I would just say humanity. It feels threatened on so many levels for my queer friends, for my friends of color, for any women or female identifying people just on so many levels, it just feels like our rights are being threatened and everything feels tenuous. If Trump wins, what the hell is going to happen to this country? And if Kamala wins, what the hell is going to change? I don't believe in politicians. They're not going to save us. That's how it feels. We have to save each other that are diehard Trumpers or something. I'd say all those people are my relatives that live in Wisconsin or a couple of coworkers, and we don't talk about politics, but on a deeper level, I try to remember that it's hard, right? Because hard, it's hard not to hate people for what they believe. I guess that's a horrible thing to say, isn't it? But I see the consequences of people who vote for Trump and put him in office the first time, their direct consequences because they voted for Trump and because of their beliefs and because of what they repost online. That just has bred so much hatred, and it's led to people being terrified for their lives and people losing their lives. There's so much propaganda being shoved down people's throats, the people that have Fox News plane 24 7.(01:21:06):I don't know the last time I watched Fox News, but I've overheard it. That stuff is crazy. They're being fed lie after lie after lie. So yeah, it's like people are also a product of their culture and it's hard to fight against your culture. So I try to give people some grace with that, but I also don't know how they can't see their own beliefs as harmful and full of hatred. I really don't understand. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard to remember people's humanity, but I have obviously my own blind spots and my own ways that I'm super ignorant and willfully ignorant in the things I look away from and the things like I'm resistant to learning because it's inconvenient or uncomfortable for me. So I try to hold that space for people too, because we're all learning. Yeah, it's a process of trying to remember people's humanity. And I think, yeah, but it just feels like when people support someone that spews so much hatred, it's really hard not to pin that blame on them as well, because they're also at fault for putting people like that in power. So I don't know. Yeah, it's a tough one.Speaker 15 (01:22:55):I feel like as somebody with various subordinated identities, whether that's being queer, being Latina, having a disability, being a woman, all of those things are increasingly politicized. And so for me, I find that political discourse specifically is often really dehumanizing and even performative on the other end of the spectrum. So our two major parties, Republican and Democrat with Republican, it's we well known that those political parties as they exist currently are working to strip away rights from people in all of those identity and affinity groups. While the Democrats, which I won't even say left, because current Democrats are right of center, when you look at a global pe

This is part two of a two-part series with the founder of Inclusive Therapists, Melody and TU Co-host, Sue Marriott. This episode features challenging yet important conversations on active anti-racist practices, exploration of oppression, and dismantling whiteness in mental health structures. Melody emphasizes the need for white clinicians to examine their own complicity in upholding oppressive systems and to listen to and center the experiences of marginalized communities. They also highlight the interconnectedness of healing and the power of collective liberation through rehumanizing.

series with the founder of Inclusive Therapists, Melody and TU Co-host, Sue Marriott. We are pushing for more inclusive, anti-racist, and decolonialized practices.The conversation is  challenging but important as we explore liberation psychology that helps us recognize and unlearn patterns of thinking that are rooted in colonization and European Western education. You may not agree with everything this guest says but you will learn something and likely feel quite a lot. Discomfort is a necessary part of liberating ourselves from engrained traditional patriarchal and white supremist thinking that continues to harm so many. Don't forget to help us reach our goal - if you appreciate TU, then please pre-order your copy of Secure Relating today & help raise the bar of secure relating in the world. www.SecureRelatingBook.com

series with the founder of Inclusive Therapists, Melody and TU Co-host, Sue Marriott. We are pushing for more inclusive, anti-racist, and decolonialized practices.The conversation is  challenging but important as we explore liberation psychology that helps us recognize and unlearn patterns of thinking that are rooted in colonization and European Western education. You may not agree with everything this guest says but you will learn something and likely feel quite a lot. Discomfort is a necessary part of liberating ourselves from engrained traditional patriarchal and white supremist thinking that continues to harm so many. Don't forget to help us reach our goal - if you appreciate TU, then please pre-order your copy of Secure Relating today & help raise the bar of secure relating in the world. www.SecureRelatingBook.com

Lindsey returns from a wild Pride week and Benny makes their debut as the show's new co-host. Hear about the parade, the charities, Starbucks Workers United, and even more about dogs. Plus, with the latest major Supreme Court decisions, the duo is angry and broke. Lindsey interviews counselor and author Kate Mageau on her book and domestic violence in the Queer community. Website: https://www.katemageau.com/ National Domestic Violence Hotline: https://www.thehotline.org/ Inclusive Therapists: https://www.inclusivetherapists.com/ RADIO SGN INFO Merch: www.redbubble.com/people/SeattleGayNews/shop Instagram: @radio.sgn Twitter: @radiosgn Music Intro: Meatball by Jesse Spillane Transitions: Night Sun by TRG Banks --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/seattle-gay-news/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/seattle-gay-news/support

Discover the unique challenges LGBT couples face in family planning in our enlightening conversation with Laurel Roberts-Meese, a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist.  As we celebrate Pride Month, Laurel shares valuable insights on the importance of language and acronyms used in the LGBT community and emphasizes the importance of allies being supportive without overstepping their boundaries.Together, we delve into the world of LGBT relationships, discussing the liberating aspect of self-designing roles within a partnership and the research showing that children of same-sex couples tend to have similar or better developmental and social outcomes. Navigating the school system and potential discrimination are also touched upon, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the unique hurdles and joys faced by LGBT couples.If you're an LGBT couple seeking therapy or support, don't miss Laurel's recommendations for finding an inclusive therapist through directories like Therapyden and Inclusive Therapists. We also discuss the similarities between LGBT couples therapy and traditional couples therapy and how to determine if it's the right fit for you. Join us in this empowering episode as we celebrate the progress and resilience of the LGBT+ community.Learn more about Laurel on her website: laureltherapy.net(415) 504-2895Keep up with Laurel Therapy Collective on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and read our latest mental health advice on our blog. This podcast is meant to be a resource for the general public, as well as fellow therapists/psychologists. It is NOT meant to replace the meaningful work of individual or family therapy. Please seek professional help in your area if you are struggling. #breakthestigma #makewordsmatter #thingsyoulearnintherapy #thingsyoulearnintherapypodcastFeel free to share your thoughts at www.makewordsmatterforgood.com or email me at Beth@makewordsmatterforgood.comIf you are a therapist or psychologist and want to be a guest on the show, please complete this form to apply: https://forms.gle/ooy8QirpgL2JSLhP6 Support the showwww.bethtrammell.com

Season 3 is a wrap - time for a hiatus replay! Season 2 will be on tap, and with so many great conversations, how could I pass up putting them out there again?Have a safe, enjoyable spring and summer. Season 4 rolls out on September 12, 2023.******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.Support the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

 My guest, Don McCasland, LCSW-CCTP, owner and therapist of Warrior Elder Counseling, is back to discuss processing trauma. We also discuss many things about humans and trauma, how it affects some persons, how other folx manage to tackle their symptoms, and how others continue in their struggle.PLEASE NOTE: We do discuss many trauma related issues and topics, including war trauma as well as the Club Q shooting that happened in Colorado Springs, CO in November 2022.To find Don:Website - https://www.warrioreldercounseling.comInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Close Encounters In Warhttps://closeencountersinwar.org*****Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.Support the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

My guest, Kristie Fuller, is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Florida. I found her account on Instagram, and it was sweary love at first read of her material she was posting. Kristie is putting herself out there to be her authentic self as a therapist. This means going against what most of us were taught in grad school of doing it old school with suit and tie.Kristie and I discuss our experiences in bringing authenticity to our careers and our clients. And let the F-bombs fly!********Kristie Fuller is a practicing LMHC via telehealth for clients in Florida, by being her sweary genuine self: " I help people who are intimidated by stuffy, bored, tired, and traditional style therapy. It's just fuckin' therapy, right? Why can't it be more direct, more brash, real, down to earth, and genuine without all the bullshit?I specialize in working with adults who are ready to deepen their awareness of their internal landscape, so that they can understand who they are, what they are thinking and feeling, and how those interact to create behaviors.My practice is welcoming to everyone looking for someone who is dedicated to creating an enviroment that is inclusive, diverse, LGBT friendly, sex-positive and neurodivergent-affirming.  My clients enjoy working with me because I create a safe space for them to be truly their authentic self. "You can find Kristie here:Website  https://www.swearytherapy.com/ Instagram  https://www.instagram.com/swearytherapy/Podcast - "If The Couch Could Speak" https://www.swearytherapy.com/podcast.html******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch TSupport the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

Music.For most persons it is all through their lives, celebrations, losses, just living. It reminds us of events, places, people, history, and who we are as individuals.I was lucky to grab my friend, Derek Fortin, former lead singer for The Dawn (among his other participation in several bands), to discuss how he sees music in his life while also being an RN and now a director in the medical world. And we also get into how music moves other humans, how it can express things we think, feel or live but we're unable to put it into what we feel are the right words.One of my favorite lyrics is from one of the songs by Paul Simon: My life's so common it disappearsAnd sometimes even musicCannot substitute for tears- Cool, Cool River, album: The Rhythm of the Saints - released 1990Music is a powerful medium to evoke serious emotions of joy, resignation, anger, love and/or sadness. And understanding what another human is living, connecting us to one another.******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.Support the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

My guest, and friend, Crystal Bessler and I hit the ground running in this episode. We cover inherited expectations from multiple sources, what obligations creates for some persons, what does it mean to take personal responsibility and owning our own shit, and what it does when you have the support of others while kicking your life into gear.*PLEASE NOTE: there is brief discussion of sexual assault in this episode.* * * *Crystal Besseler, BSN R N, works in Behavioral Health with children through geriatric populations, as well as having experience with Crisis/Emergency Behavioral Health, Drug and Alcohol Detox/Addiction Recovery, and Corrections populations. Crystal is also a qualified Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. She's currently working in the ever expanding field of medical health technology as a digital health nurse, taking care of hospital patients in their own homes.******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.Support the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

Subscriber-only episodeMy guest, Steven Kmiec, PhD, is back for part two of the discussion regarding science behind glass and honey. So much of what we discuss comes from passion to know more about how things work, what happens if we try to change it, and what do we learn when it doesn't work out. Much like how we as humans move through our lives, society, cultures, and how we negotiate our way in and out of relationships. Which path do we take? How passionate are we about what we want? Will it work out?******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.https://www.nerpsc.com/aboutWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

Like most conditions, anxiety can manifest itself in a multitude of ways, one of which is called high-functioning anxiety. It can be challenging for the person experiencing it—as well as those around them—to spot, but understanding the signs and symptoms of high-functioning anxiety is an important first step in treating it. Here's how I manage on a daily basis. Become A Patron: https://www.patreon.com/thevibewithky Buy Official Neurospicy Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/kys-merch-vibes/ Other Links My Instagram: https://instagram.com/thevibewithky My TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thevibewithky My Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thevibewithky/ My Twitter: https://twitter.com/thevibewithky My Website: https://thevibewithky.com/ **Disclaimer: All videos and content on this channel is intended to be entertainment and educational only. YouTube is not therapy and I cannot and do not provide specific advice or clinical services to anyone on this platform. Your confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on YouTube so please be mindful of this when sharing in the comments!** Finding a Therapist & Suicide Prevention Services National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 24/7/365 crisis and prevention services. 1-800-273-8255 / https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Psychology Today Therapist Finder: Search engine that helps find therapists in your area. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/th... Therapy Den: Therapist Search Engine to find Inclusive Therapists in your area. https://www.therapyden.com/ Inclusive Therapists: Therapist search engine with a focus on inclusivity & safety for folks with marginalized identities. https://www.inclusivetherapists.com Glimmer: A digital wellness platform for LGBTQIA+ folks. https://weglimmer.com/#/ NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness): Provides education, tools, resources, and a help line for people with mental illness. 1-800-950-6264 or text NAMI to 741741 https://nami.org/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thevibewithky/support

Why is therapy so expensive? Today we explore the reasons why you're paying more, therapists role in the payments, greedy insurance companies, and how we can potentially fix these issues. Become A Patron: https://www.patreon.com/thevibewithky Buy Official Neurospicy Merch: https://www.bonfire.com/store/kys-merch-vibes/ Other Links My Instagram: https://instagram.com/thevibewithky My TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@thevibewithky My Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thevibewithky/ My Twitter: https://twitter.com/thevibewithky My Website: https://thevibewithky.com/ **Disclaimer: All videos and content on this channel is intended to be entertainment and educational only. YouTube is not therapy and I cannot and do not provide specific advice or clinical services to anyone on this platform. Your confidentiality cannot be guaranteed on YouTube so please be mindful of this when sharing in the comments!** Finding a Therapist & Suicide Prevention Services National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 24/7/365 crisis and prevention services. 1-800-273-8255 / https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ Psychology Today Therapist Finder: Search engine that helps find therapists in your area. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/th... Therapy Den: Therapist Search Engine to find Inclusive Therapists in your area. https://www.therapyden.com/ Inclusive Therapists: Therapist search engine with a focus on inclusivity & safety for folks with marginalized identities. https://www.inclusivetherapists.com Glimmer: A digital wellness platform for LGBTQIA+ folks. https://weglimmer.com/#/ NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness): Provides education, tools, resources, and a help line for people with mental illness. 1-800-950-6264 or text NAMI to 741741 https://nami.org/ --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thevibewithky/support

Subscriber-only episodeThe pandemic kicked off all sorts of society changes. One of the many shifts was about people examining what the fuck were they doing with their time, their efforts, their energy. Then came along what media called The Great Resignation - and it was not all that great. What it did show was that many persons attempted to find their passion and make it work for them in their lives in various forms.This episode, one of my favorite people returns, Steven Kmiec, PhD. He speaks to finding his passion for how the world works through science and through that science, finding his passion for art in glass blowing.******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.Want more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

Anitwork, wtf is that? Well, it means multiple things to various persons and groups. I've got someone working in that area, Meg Kelly, to discuss her work there. And, yeah THAT awesome Meg from previous episodes and her own podcast Mental Status.We discuss what that term means, how it is applied to various populations, but what it means especially with mental health professionals.****Megan Kelly, MA LMHCIs a polyamory therapist, counseling for burnout in therapists, and EMDR therapy in Fort Wayne, Indianapolis, Bloomington, and virtually across the state of Florida. She's  working to deconstruct what it means to be a therapist in today's world. You can find more about Megan and that work over here:https://www.instagram.com/antiworktherapist******Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa.In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.Support the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

Subscriber-only episodeThere seems to be little discussion about living internationally, adjusting to life there whether for a month or for years, what does that do for your mental health, and what the fuck happens when it's about adjusting to living back in your home country.Caroline Anderson, my guest and also my cousin, talks with me about living and working in Japan, I share my experiences after only a month away in Germany, and our experiences adjusting back to life in the US.*Trigger Warning: discussion includes anxiety, depression, and panic symptoms.***Caroline, in her words, "I'm a married cat lady, who had a crazy idea to live in Japan for almost a decade. I went from midwestern suburbs to a tiny apartment in a city before Google translate. Yet somehow I made it work."****Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional. *****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC.https://www.nerpsc.com/about/Want more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

My friend and guest, Gary Hogener joins me in this episode to discuss all his experiences he's had to date: veteran, law enforcement officer, educator, security consultant, security guard. I'm grateful for Gary agreeing to join me.*Trigger Warning: discussion includes combat experiences, suicide, and PTSD symptoms.Resources for support:ResponderStronghttps://responderstrong.org/All Clear Foundationhttps://allclearfoundation.org/CopLinehttps://www.copline.org/NVFChttps://www.nvfc.org/Peer Support through IRel8www.irel8.org/Veteran Crisis Linehttps://www.veteranscrisisline.net/Sebastian Younger documentary:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrepo_(film)*****Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional. *****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, F*ck The Rules, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is busy assisting First Responders, Law Enforcement Officers, and hospital ER/ICU staff as well as members of the LGBTQIA+ community in their mental health wellness journey.Susan is a NationSupport the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

Here we go! No. 1 Child, Seneca Bulington and I kick off the season about how do you find a therapist? What obstacles get in the way of going into therapy, even if you've got insurance?We discuss what it looks like in finding connection with a therapist, and that it's not always the first one you meet that is a good fit.We also chat about what everyone seems to have been talking about in the past few months, Jonah Hill's "Stutz." If you haven't seen it, this is your SPOILER ALERT for that documentary as Seneca and I discuss what it meant to both of us, the ethics of filming your therapist or participating in your client's documentary project. What we thought about the information presented by Phil Stutz and Jonah Hill. And what was it like to hear Jonah and Phil express their love for one another in that documentary. It was a good discussion, and one that sent me back to review the documentary again as well as chat about it with some friends and colleagues including my OG CSU crew member, Dan Scritchfield.It also led Seneca and I to briefly discuss family of origin and those issues that come from being raised by flawed humans.*****Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent.* * * * *F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional. Support the showWant more sweary goodness? There's now the availability of Premium Subscription for $3 a month to listen to Q&A sessions as well as extra episodes only available to subscribers! Click the "Subscribe" button or "Support The Show" link and find out more info.F*ck The Rules Podcast is produced by Evil Bambina Productions, LLC. You can find our podcast on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, your insurance provider or an online therapist directory for the nearest mental health professional.*****Susan Roggendorf is a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor in Illinois and a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in Iowa. In addition to hosting and producing her podcast, she's running a private practice as an independent provider full-time. Susan is a National Certified Counselor through the NBCC as well as an Emergency Responder & Public Safety Certified Clinician through NERPSC. When she's not busy with all those things, Susan is usually busy annoying her adult children or gardening.

We're off to a bit of a rough start, but Season 3 is underway starting next week, January 10th!So much to look forward to with some returning guests, new guests and topics which always connects to mental health...of course, including how they said fuck the rules to do what they do.*****Please note the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of myself and my guests, and do not necessarily reflect on the views or positions of any entities they may or may not represent. * * * * * F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Let's wrap up this year with *the* most downloaded episode, my colleague and friend, John Wiesch.Originally broadcast on 05/22/2022:Please join me with my friend, and guest, Rev. John Wiesch. Yes, it's true, that's not a typo. He's an ordained minister. But hooboy, hold on to your hats. He brings the hardcore swearing with him in this episode...this is *not* for the faint of heart. It's a wild ride for the season finale!*NOTE: possible triggers warning with discussion of trauma*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 05/17/2022:Uber fabulous Amy Gimmy, my guest for Episode 16, brings info about her career as a licensed massage therapist, the challenges and the benefits of being her own boss, and owning her own practice.*Notice: possible trigger warning due to sexual harassment discussion*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 05/09/2022:It's that time of year. Graduation ceremonies for many persons. But what is the meaning of education now? What does it bring to graduates? What other options should be considered?Join me and my guest, Steven Kmiec, as we tease it apart and chat about it.*To clarify: in most states a person is not required to be licensed or certified to present themselves as a life coach, or need either one to receive a business license as a life coach. However, plenty of persons have put themselves through training/certification to be ethical life coaches.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 05/03/2022:Guest Brandon Kutmas, MS, LCPC, LMHC, and Chief Executive Officer of Quad City Behavioral Health Associates talks with me about saying fvck the bullshit of agency being the only available source of experience/hours for licensing, how civilians can be great therapists for vets and First Responders, and how antiwork is a viable business model.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Holiday Hiatus Episode 3 "How To Create A Publishing Company The F*cking Punk Way OR Boundaries: Pretty Good For A Happy Life"I had the great good fortune to have a long conversation with the founder and CEO (as well as being an author) of Microcosm Publishing, Joe Biel.Joe generously gifted me time from a busy schedule, running a successful independent publishing company to talk about coming to publishing, discussing the journey to where the company is now, and how mental health has been presented in books in previous years and what the books that are being written look like in more recent years. Full disclosure, I'm a fan of Microcosm Publishing being a consumer of many of their books.This final new episode of 2022 is hella good fun, interesting and I enjoyed my too short time chatting with Joe. You can find more information on Microcosm Publishing, including the books they publish, here:https://microcosmpublishing.com/You can find more about Joe, here:https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/artist/joe-bielDr. Faith Harper's books discussed in this episode as well as her other works can be found on the MP site:https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/artist/dr_faith_g_harperThe book on suicidal ideation:How Not to Kill Yourself: A Survival Guide for Imaginative Pessimistsby Set Sytes AUTHOR with Dr. Faith G. Harperhttps://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/7099*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 04/26/2022:Guest Kayla Chorley, Canadian Certified Counselor and Counseling Therapist, and owner of Pineapple Therapy, joins me as we make our plans for world domination through therapy and being badass!*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Whenever I hear the word "narcissistic," I always call to mind Eddie Izzard's "Deathstar Canteen" sketch especially this segment:"Do you know who I am?""Do you know who *I* am?""This is not a game of Who The F*ck Are You..."The term narcissistic gets used incorrectly all over the place, but Narcissistic Personality Disorder causes some serious damage in many relationships.CEO and creator of The M.A.D. Beyond, Alexandra Skinner Walsh, joins me to discuss one area she has been working with clients for many years. It's been an area of such passion for Alex that she's gone and created an online ecourse about the personality disorder and how it affects persons in families and other relationships.You can find more info on the ecourse on Alex's site here:https://www.themadbeyond.com/courses*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 04/12/2022:Episode 11 has guest, Meg Kelly chatting about her journey of saying "fuck the rules!"  She's CEO of her own private telehealth therapy practice, host of her podcast Mental Status, and the support site Antiwork Therapist Collective. Whew! This woman is rocking it.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Interrupting the F*ck The Rules Podcast Hiatus, because I can, for Holiday Episode 1 with my guest, Det. Erik Lavigne.Erik hosts a podcast "Two Cops One Donut" and took time out of a busy schedule to discuss his podcast, his wide variety of guests he's hosted, how he got his start in being an officer, and what he's trying to do with the outreach he's providing in his podcast. You can find Erik here:Spotifyhttps://open.spotify.com/show/4BGmIY1h8wY80Q58L1S5Wo?si=EI0jQDoEQkymXSAXiZ9nJQ&utm_source=copy-linkYouTubehttps://youtube.com/@TwoCopsOneDonut*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 04/05/2022:This week's guest is my friend and colleague, Grayson Reed. He created a nonprofit Public Safety Preservation, trying to keep First Responders alive. Please join us to hear about our experiences working to reach folx who are under immense pressures and stress, and offering them support and hope.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 03/21/2022:This week my guest is Jon, Seneca's (my daughter, her episode title "F*ck, please...") partner/boyfriend  about his history of rock/cliff/mountain climbing and how that embraces his version of "f*ck the rules!", rock hounding finds, his fishes' personalities, and consciousness/vegetarianism/meat consumption. It's a lot to pack into less than 30 mins!The book mentioned in this episode is THE SOUL OF AN OCTOPUS:A SURPRISING EXPLORATION INTO THE WONDER OF CONSCIOUSNESS, by author, Sy Montgomery. Something not mentioned in this episode, my fault for not bringing it into conversation, was the documentary/film: "My Octopus Teacher,"  a 2020 Netflix Original documentary film directed by Pippa Ehrlich and James Reed. It  documents a year spent by filmmaker Craig Foster forging a relationship with a wild common octopus in a South African kelp forest. *****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 03/15/2022:I got to hang out with one of my favorite smarty people, Dr. Cramer this episode. She discusses how her career, her life, and her health benefited by saying "F*ck the rules!" to Evil Bastards, Inc. (EBI, trademark pending!) And providing quality eye care in the 21st century.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 03/07/2022:My guest this episode is the founder and Executive Director of Clock, Inc., Chase Norris. He let's us know about his journey from community mental health to opening up a non-profit providing meeting space, education, and community in the Quad Cities for the LGBTQ+ population.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcasst on 02/28/2022:This week my guest is my other daughter, Jenn Piatak!We chat about knitting and the apocalypse, not out running zombie hordes, talking openly about her Mental Health Wellness journey, and the joy in creating the family we have.*please note: there is general discussion of assault and sexual assault at minute 11:56 to 14:19******F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 02/21/2022:This week I speak with author, and my friend, Leslie Langtry!Leslie has written many great books, book series, and novellas where she said, "f*ck that" to many rules in the writing world.Go ahead, Google the woman, she's f*cking cool.*The book mentioned, Bloodshed In The Bayou, is not currently available. Damn it.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 02/14/2022:I chat with my colleague, Alex, who is also the founder and owner (as well as therapist) of The M.A.D. Therapy. What got her started on the path of being CEO of her own business, and what rules did she have to kick to the fucking curb to get where she is now?Also mentioned are my office mates:Kelly McReynolds of Free Your Mind Therapy ServicesNikki Hayes of Be Well Therapy & ConsultationErika Hansen of Hobein Counseling.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

Originally broadcast on 02/07/2022:My inaugural guest this week is my daughter, Seneca Bulington.I was pleased she agreed to talk to me about growing up a millennial in the Midwest, what being bisexual means to her, what criteria do we feel need to be met to include ourselves in a community, childhood stories where she clearly embodied the motto, "f*ck the rules." It was a pleasure to spend time with her, as always!*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

In this Season 2 final episode, one of my favorite people, Veronica Green, chats with me. As with most of the people that I know, and definitely among my friends group, she is incredibly passionate about service to/for/with others. And this means for her, using her voice to advocate for those who are unable to speak up and advocate for themselves - her students.We cover everything from how we first met, to Veronica's adventures in teaching, people trying to find the meaning of their human existence, to her new podcast. We get sweary, we laugh a lot, and at the end of the episode, curse motorcycles interrupting our discussions.Veronica Green is a Midwest Mama with a K-12 license in ESL (English as a Second Language) in the state of Minnesota. Bilingual in Spanish and a language nerd at heart, she holds a Master's in TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages) and a Master's in Conflict Resolution. She has a background in case management, business, music, and has homemade soup and baked goods game.Veronica is the host and producer of her brand new podcast focusing on student and teacher advocacy called “Use Your Teacher Voice.” She lives in St. Paul with her partner, two daughters, old puppy, young kitty, trees and garden.Website: https://useyourteachervoice.godaddysites.com/ Instagram: use.your.teacher.voiceLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/use-your-teacher-voice-podcast/ Buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2019995/share *****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

No. 1 Child and unofficial cohost, Seneca Bulington is back with me! This time we're chatting about the bullshit involved with dating, how therapy is a game changer for those dating and/or settling into relationships, and the rotten child roasts me at least once during this episode.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

For this episode, I asked someone that I admire and respect to be my guest:  Janna Gottwald-Stridbeck, Ph.D. Dipl.-Psych, who is also a Psychotherapist in training. We found one another on Instagram, and the information she puts out regarding trauma has led me to looking up other therapists and information about the info they share on their accounts.Dr. Gottwald-Stridbeck is also passionate about language, we nerd out together about it, and I cheer her on about writing a modern translation of Freud's work.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

This episode, I have the pleasure of hosting one of my favorite professionals, friend and mentor, Dr. Christina Keszler. She is the Owner, and Chiropractic physician of Synergy Wellness Centers, LLC.We have a great time sharing laughs, but also discussing serious subjects as trying to be a professional who is female in male dominated fields, how to be the best in your profession for best client/patient care, and being badass means just being your genuine self.*****F*ck The Rules Podcast is available on Amazon Music/Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, iheart radio, Listen Notes, Pandora, Stitcher, Spotify and TuneIn/Alexa - and many more!***Social media/podcast episodes are not intended to replace therapy with a qualified mental health professional. All posts/episodes are for educational purposes only. If you are in need of assistance for mental health services, please check with your PCP, Inclusive Therapists, TherapyDen, Included Health or Monarch Therapy Directory for the nearest health professional.

I asked on social media for your questions on mental health, witchcraft, and paganism. In this episode, I answer those questions and give my perspective. This episode got a little heavy for me at certain points, so it may be heavy for you sometimes, too. However, mental health is such an important topic and I really wanted to tackle this head-on. If you'd prefer a transcript, you can find this and past transcripts here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ATnoPoTD51xY6A46ay0F5moVxki-1X28?usp=sharing ☎️ Resources for those struggling! ☎️ Checkpoint.org Global Resource List: https://checkpointorg.com/global/ International Hotlines: https://www.helpguide.org/find-help.htm United for Global Mental Health: https://unitedgmh.org/mental-health-support 7 of Cups - Free Anonymous Emotional Support: https://www.7cups.com/ IMAlive - Text-based Suicide Prevention: https://www.imalive.org/ Inclusive Therapists: https://www.inclusivetherapists.com/wiccan-paganism

"Tough it out," "mind over matter," and "get over it" are common phrases most of us heard while growing up. However, what impact does that have on an individual? Join your host Katie Whipple and India Cuttino, a mental healthcare advocate and founder of the "Mind is Matter" app, as they discuss India's mental health journey and how she is changing the narrative for mental health for children in underrepresented communities. For mental health resources, please look no further than the list below: National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI): https://www.nami.org/Home NAMI Helpline: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 800-273-8255 Crisis Text Line: text "TALK" to 741741 to text with a trained counselor for free The Trevor Project: thetrevorproject.org Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN): hotline.rainn.org via chat or 1-800-656-4673 To Write Love on Her Arms (TWLOHA): twloha.com/find-help National Eating Disorders Association (NEDA): myneda.org Inclusive Therapists: inclusivetherapists.com Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists (A page that can be used to find a therapist) If you want to learn more about the Mind is Matter app, please check out its Instagram in the following link: https://www.instagram.com/mindismatter.app --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cupofcommongrounds/message

Melody Li, founder of Inclusive Therapists and Mental Health Liberation, speaks on how service users in traditional mental health care systems are excluded and barriers to access are unaccounted for in traditional models. Melody shares how practicing from a decolonial, liberation-oriented, and anti-oppressive model can inform on accessibility, inclusive practices for service users, and mental health professionals. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

The 2021 theme for World Mental Health Day is “Mental Health in an Unequal World.” This theme highlights the fact that between 75% to 95% of people with mental health issues in low and middle-income countries are unable to access the care that they need. In the US, it's not much better for people of color given that only 14% to 15% of U.S. psychologists are non-white. The good news: there is a movement to decolonize, disrupt, and dismantle oppressive mental health practices. That movement is being led by our Coach Chat guest, Melody Li. Melody is a queer therapist of color and founder of Inclusive Therapists, a platform that offers a safer, simpler way for people of all identities and abilities in all bodies to find a culturally responsive, social justice-oriented therapist. Melody is a mental health liberation activist whose goal is to decolonize mental health and healing, especially for those who live at the BIPOC and LGBTQIA2S+ intersection. Melody talks in this episode with Coach Colette about what it means to decolonize mental health and how colonizing practices impact those with marginalized identities. Melody shares their own decolonizing journey to healing from internalized shame, oppression, and white supremacy. They also talk about the power and necessity of telling your story and the importance of finding safe, healing, liberation-oriented communities — communities that take your mental health seriously and provide space for that storytelling. You don't want to miss this one— it's a conversation rich with meaning and reflection on how we can tend to ourselves and others. To see Coach Colette's offerings, view her profile on Inclusive Therapists here. If you enjoyed this episode, why not share it with your friends on social media! Follow @coach_colette on Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, and Clubhouse. Get healing and self-care tools from Coach Colette on Gumroad. Want to ask a question or make a topic suggestion? Send us a message here. While you're at it, we'd appreciate a review on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Thanks for listening! --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/coach-colette/message

"Mental health is health" as a movement has been gaining traction over the past couple of years. However, what does that movement look like in reality in the Mexican American community? Join your host Katie Whipple and Lizbeth Rios, Miss Mexicana Universal Aurora, a counselor for survivors of domestic and sexual abuse, as they discuss mental health in the Mexican American community and Lizbeth's own journey with mental health. For mental health resources, please look no further than the list below: National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI): https://www.nami.org/Home NAMI Helpline: 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) National Suicide Prevention Hotline: 800-273-8255 Crisis Text Line: text "TALK" to 741741 to text with a trained counselor for free The Trevor Project: thetrevorproject.org Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network (RAINN): hotline.rainn.org via chat or 1-800-656-4673 To Write Love on Her Arms (TWLOHA): twloha.com/find-help National Eating Disorders Association (NEDA): myneda.org Inclusive Therapists: inclusivetherapists.com Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists (A page that can be used to find a therapist) --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cupofcommongrounds/message

Melody Li has built a practice around getting smashy--and I am here for it! This Hong Kong-born, diasporic settler is a queer therapist of Color, mental health liberation activist, and all around badass. Their work focuses on liberating communities long neglected or, worse, harmed outright by whiteness in therapeutic spaces. What I find so magical about Melody is that they knew what they wanted but couldn't find it in the current therapeutic structure so they created it themself. For the community, by the community. Boom. Melody, lays the groundwork for our exploration of decolonization, internalized biases, and land-back movements. If you're new to any of these topics (even if you're not), Melody's personal and professional insights will guide your continued un-doctrination. This conversation is wall-to-wall mic drop moments, y'all, as well as an unveiling of Melody's latest initiative. If you're anything like me (which, duh, you're listening so of course we're like-minds), you'll walk away from this convo inspired af, wondering why we're still applying words like “history” across all narratives, and ready to get smashy within your own limiting environments. GUEST CONTACT INFO & BIO Melody Li is a colony-born migrant and diasporic settler on Turtle Island. They are a queer therapist of Color, mental health liberation activist and keynote speaker. They founded Inclusive Therapists: a mental health directory and community that celebrates and centers people with marginalized identities (especially QTBIPOC). Melody offers collective care and education focusing on decolonizing mental health and healing racialized trauma. For full show notes, resources, and links to connect with our guest, visit: http://www.headhearttherapy.com/podcast HEY THERAPISTS... You're invited to Head/Heart Conversations, our webinar series designed for psychotherapists who want to invite their inner healer to the forefront of both work life and personal life. In this four-part series, we will invite participants to learn about themselves as well as enhance their clinical skills. Details & Registration: http://tinyurl.com/hhconvos Promo Code for $20 off: podcast Friday, September 17, 2021 - Body Language by Joanna Taubeneck, LCPC, R-DMT, GL-CMA, E-RYT Friday, November 19, 2021 - Queering our Conversations by Benji Marton, LCSW *** Conversations with a Wounded Healer is a proud member of @mhnrnetwork. Let's be friends! You can find me in the following places... Website: www.headhearttherapy.com/podcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WoundedHealr/ https://www.facebook.com/HeadHeartTherapy/ Instagram: @headhearttherapy Twitter: @WoundedHealr @HeadHeart_Chi

CW: SuicideThis episode is very close to my heart. It's about a heavy topic, and I encourage you to take your time listening to it, or step away from it if it's too much.In this episode, I talk to four people, all of whom have a relationship to suicide. I speak with Monica (they/them), a freelance musician whose flexible jobs allows them to maintain their mental health; Henry Ling (he/him), who found support for mental health and suicidal ideation on YouTube; Avanti (they/she), who is training to be a therapist but wants to disrupt what therapy can look like in favor of abolition and community care; and Melody Li (佢/any) a therapist who embodies a decolonized perspective.We talk about the lack of financial and culturally-specific access to mental health care, how suicide is criminalized, and how we can try to look at suicide prevention from a space of care, sharing stories, and slowing down.Links:Melody Li's mental health directory and community Inclusive Therapists: www.inclusivetherapists.comNisha's interview with Dr. Jennifer Mullan from Decolonizing Therapy: https://www.thehealinghype.com/p/a-conversation-with-decolonizingSupport the show (http://www.patreon.com/migrasians)

We are back for a new season! For the month of May, we will have the honor of hearing from Gabes Torres. Gabes is a Filipino/a/x psychotherapist, organizer, and member of the Speaking of Racism community + Advisory Board. Melody Li joined Gabes for this episode to discuss de-centering whiteness in Therapy. Melody Is a colony-born migrant & settler, therapist of Color, and mental health justice activist. They created Inclusive Therapists (www.inclusivetherapists.com): a social justice-oriented mental health directory and community that celebrates the strengths & centers the needs of marginalized communities. They also lead a mental health justice movement to decolonize, disrupt and dismantle oppressive mental health practices. In community, they restore, reimagine & reclaim our healing. Melody believes that all people with all identities & abilities in all bodies deserve equal access to quality mental health care.

MUSIC:Past Sadness by Kevin MacLeodLink: https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5024-past-sadnessLicense: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ Mental Health Resources:Crisis Text Line - Text "home" or "start" to 741741 to connect with a crisis counselorNational Suicide Prevention Hotline 1-800-273-8255, (For Spanish call 1-888-628-9454)National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) for resources and a mental health hotline https://www.nami.org/HomeOpenPath Collective - find a therapist near you! All therapists offer sessions from $30-$60 for individuals. This is a good option if you don't have insurance or your copay is high. Many insurance companies are currently covering telehealth services in light of Covid-19!Organizations providing therapy for BIPOC or organizations you can support financially - The Loveland Foundation, The Boris L. Henson Foundation, Inclusive Therapists, Latinx Therapy, and Black Mental Health Alliance.BetterHelp - Private Online CounselingMHMR Tarrant County - 817-569-4451ULifeline: Mental health resources for college studentsCheck with the Boys and Girls Club in your area for resources for children and teens. The Boys and Girls Club of Greater Tarrant County has a FREE counseling program.Texas Wesleyan University is offering free counseling to ALL students, faculty, and staff. They offer it to the community on a sliding-based scale starting at $10. You can email them at TWCC@txwes.edu. 

Kimberly Riley, returns to the Arise Podcast with her friend and colleague Desiree Cadengo. Both are Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists and they join Danielle to talk about how to get kids, parents and families through distance learning this coming Fall.  "We need to be adjusting for the long haul" of distance learning. At the end of the last school year it was very much a hunker down and get through this, but as we look at the longevity and severity of COVID-19 we need to rethink how we're going to do this upcoming school year. Both Kimberly and Desiree emphasize the importance of having structure and a schedule at home. How can we expect kids to manage themselves when we as adults are having a hard time managing life under COVID? Parents must lead by example, as well as with our words and expectations. Everyone is adjusting. It's not just kids, adults are working from home. We're all having to reimagine what normal looks like. Kids are asking, "Is anything the same?" Kids are better at adjusting than adults because they are constantly learning and adjusting as they grow.How to form cohesiveness in our families in communities--start with networking. Ask around, who's home? Neighbors? Extended family? Who is working? Who's not? We need to be reaching out to others so we remember we're not alone in this. We can work together on a smaller scale if we let people know we need help and can help. Social isolation has been a big issue for children.  There is something we can do: Zoom calls, phones calls, social distancing outside. Kids need interaction with other kids, however that may look in this next season. Danielle says it's important to put some of these practices in place before the weather turns and social distancing outside will be less possible. Kids are having a dramatic increase in screen time. There needs to be balance, parents still need to monitor the screen time. Screens can be helpful and educational... But there still needs to be limits and parents need to know what the kids are watching. What they are watching is affecting them. Scary and inappropriate images, cyber bullying are causing some kids to have nightmares. Parents are coming aware, they can no longer be detached because they are actually home with their kids. Parents need to regulate their children's screen time. Basic parenting practices are being illuminated during COVID. Kids need screen regulation as well as adults! We can be asking ourselves, "When am I going to put my phone down and be present?" Be honest with your kids when they ask you (as the parent) what you're doing on the screens; are you working? are you just zoning out? are you looking for something funny to cope with this challenging season? are you socializing?Lead by example -- it's healthy for adults to have a time limit on screens as well. We all need balance!We can also use screen to engage with each other. For instance doing art with a  "Step by step painting" video: Do it with your kids. Get your Bob Ross on. Coping skills and finding other ways to connect through exploration.Kimberly's family decided to try learning how to skateboard--they ordered a skateboard, the wheels and all the tools they need to put it together. She said there's probably stuff around your house that can be put together with the kids. What do you already have? There are things in your house that can entertain you. Trying taking things apart and putting them back together. Try to be spontaneous and get creative. Desiree had her kids make slime and then had them put it inside balloons to make stress balls. Take flashlights to your LEGO. Build a fort. Make play dough. Google some ideas! It doesn't have to be complicated or expensive. Bake or cook or new recipe. Sleep in the tent out in the backyard. Your kids just want to be with you. Let them know you enjoy being with them. What do you have in your house and what can you give out of what you have to others that are in greater need? Who's my neighbor, who's in my community and how can I come alongside them in this season?There are people out there who have difficulty asking for help. We need to be reaching out to those around us. People are feeling alone because of social distancing; there are people struggling in their homes. People are experiencing high levels of stress and we can do even something small to try to connect. Simply asking "how are you handling things right now?" Reach out, do what you can as a community. Kimberly talks about how some ethnic culture identities say: Community. People of Color especially are familiar with the idea of connecting within a community. Look at your black and brown neighbors to see how they are doing community in this season. What can you do to show love and connect?Connect with Kimberly:kimberlyriley@youarebeautifulpllc.com360-440-4021www.youarebeautifulpllc.comKimberly is reading facebook feeds to stay connected socially. Kimberly is listening to 90s RnB and Hip HopKimberly is inspired by communities of color and how they are connectionDesiree is reading about Kids and Screen TimeDesiree is inspired by the families she is working with, they don't give up!Bios:Dr. Kimberly Riley is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and a certified child mental health specialist in the state of Washington. She has experience working with children and is passionate about their behavioral health needs, although she currently works mostly with couples and families in the private practice setting. She loves being a wife and mom to her 3 teenage daughters. She also enjoys traveling to and exploring new places with her family.Desiree Cadengo [Bio] licensed is also a LMFT and works as a Child and Family TherapistChemical Dependency Certificate, Olympic College Mar 2016MA in Marriage and Family Therapy, Brandman University 2015BS in Criminal Justice, American Intercontinental University 2005About 10 years of experience working with children, youth and families through different non- profit organizations and church, also completed my master's degree program internship as a school counselor at Pinecrest Elementary School. I provide mental health counseling to individuals (young children, adolescents, & adults) and families to help facilitate change that they agree is going to be most useful. I integrate a number of different therapeutic styles and modalities, depending on what fits the best with the client and situation. Treatment modalities include Play Therapy, Trauma- Focused Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, Parent Child Interaction Therapy, Solution-Focused therapy, Motivational Interviewing, Motivational Enhancement Threapy, as well as Dialectical Behavioral Therapy techniques.

Mental Health Resources: Crisis Text Line - Text "home" or "start" to 741741 to connect with a crisis counselorNational Suicide Prevention Hotline 1-800-273-8255, (For Spanish call 1-888-628-9454)National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI) for resources and a mental health hotline https://www.nami.org/HomeOpenPath Collective - find a therapist near you! All therapists offer sessions from $30-$60 for individuals. This is a good option if you don't have insurance or your copay is high. Many insurance companies are currently covering telehealth services in light of Covid-19!Organizations providing therapy for BIPOC or organizations you can support financially - The Loveland Foundation, The Boris L. Henson Foundation, Inclusive Therapists, Latinx Therapy, and Black Mental Health Alliance.BetterHelp - Private Online CounselingMHMR Tarrant County - 817-569-4451ULifeline: Mental health resources for college studentsCheck with the Boys and Girls Club in your area for resources for children and teens. The Boys and Girls Club of Greater Tarrant County has a FREE counseling program. Texas Wesleyan University is offering free counseling to ALL students, faculty, and staff. They offer it to the community on a sliding-based scale starting at $10. You can email them at TWCC@txwes.edu.Katy's Instagramwww.katyoliphintcounseling.comMusic: "Concentration" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 Licensehttp://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

69% of Americans have felt like life is getting harder since the COVID-19 pandemic began, and report higher than normal levels of sadness, anger, fear and depression. Today we talk to two NYC doctors, and married couple — Dr. Briana Mathews and Dr. Steve Mathews — about the looming Mental Health crisis ahead of us, a broken system that needs to be fixed + steps YOU can take, and the resiliency that got these frontline workers through the dark days of COVID in NYC. Bri and Steve also tell us about two amazing causes helping those in need — Inclusive Therapists and Americares.

A Facebook debate made us question if parents are shielding their kids from an important topic that should be discussed in schools. Sex education should be taught at a proper age/grade, because it is just as essential as any other subject. This is more than just unplanned pregnancies and contraceptives. This is about celebrating healthy conversations! SUPPORT THE RESOURCES BELOW:1-877-565-8660 (The Trans Lifeline)1-888-843-4564 (The LGBT National Hotline)@therapyforblkmen (Therapy for Black Men)@inclusivetherapists (Inclusive Therapists)@therapyforblackgirls (Therapy for Black Girls)https://blacklivesmatter.comhttps://www.reclaimtheblock.org/home https://www.joincampaignzero.orghttps://unicornriot.ninja/donate/https://gf.me/u/x3kmyt

FOLLOW/SUPPORT THE ORGANIZATIONS AND PEOPLE BELOW!!!WHERE TO DONATE:https://blacklivesmatter.comhttps://www.reclaimtheblock.org/home https://www.joincampaignzero.orghttps://unicornriot.ninja/donate/BLACK EXCELLENCE:@markus.effin.prime (Comic Illustrator)@porshaolayiwola (Writer/Poet)@sarahnsays (Motivational Speaker/Coach)@radiancereigncosmetics (Cosmetics Brand)@itchyeyephotos (Photographer)@angysgotit (Community Organizer)@theeislandboi (Makeup Artist)MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES:1-877-565-8660 (The Trans Lifeline)1-888-843-4564 (The LGBT National Hotline)@therapyforblkmen (Therapy for Black Men)@inclusivetherapists (Inclusive Therapists)@therapyforblackgirls (Therapy for Black Girls)