Podcasts about Kitsap

Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, the church, and what are we seeing in reality right now? So Jenny and I dive in a little bit about therapy. The holidays, I would don't say the words collective liberation, but it feels like that's what we're really touching on and what does that mean in this day and age? What are we finding with one another? How are we seeking help? What does it look like and what about healing? What does that mean to us? This isn't like a tell all or the answer to all the problems. We don't have any secret knowledge. Jenny and I are just talking out some of the thoughts and feeling and talking through what does it mean for us as we engage one another, engage healing spaces, what do we want for ourselves? And I think we're still figuring that out. You're just going to hear us going back and forth talking and thank you for joining. Danielle (00:10):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, the church, and what are we seeing in reality right now? So Jenny and I dive in a little bit about therapy. The holidays, I would don't say the words collective liberation, but it feels like that's what we're really touching on and what does that mean in this day and age? What are we finding with one another? How are we seeking help? What does it look like and what about healing? What does that mean to us? This isn't like a tell all or the answer to all the problems. We don't have any secret knowledge. Jenny and I are just talking out some of the thoughts and feeling and talking through what does it mean for us as we engage one another, engage healing spaces, what do we want for ourselves? And I think we're still figuring that out. You're just going to hear us going back and forth talking and thank you for joining. Download, subscribe. So Jenny, we were just talking about therapy because we're therapists and all. And what were you saying about it?Jenny (01:17):I was saying that I'm actually pretty disillusioned with therapy and the therapy model as it stands currently and everything. I don't want to put it in the all bad bucket and say it's only bad because obviously I do it and I, I've done it myself. I am a therapist and I think there is a lot of benefit that can come from it, and I think it eventually meets this rub where it is so individualistic and it is one person usually talking to one person. And I don't think we are going to dismantle the collective systems that we need to dismantle if we are only doing individual therapy. I think we really need to reimagine what healing looks like in a collective space.Danielle (02:15):Yeah, I agree. And it's odd to talk about it both as therapists. You and I have done a lot of groups together. Has that been different? I know for me as I've reflected on groups. Yeah. I'll just say this before you answer that. As I've reflected on groups, when I first started and joined groups, it was really based on a model of there's an expert teacher, which I accepted willingly because I was used to a church or patriarchal format. There's expert teacher or teachers like plural. And then after that there's a group, and in your group there's an expert. And I viewed that person as a guru, a professional, of course, they were professional, they are professionals, but someone that might have insider knowledge about me or people in my group that would bring that to light and that knowledge alone would change me or being witnessed, which I think is important in a group setting would change me. But I think part of the linchpin was having that expert guide and now I don't know what I think about that.(03:36):I think I really appreciate the somatic experiencing model that would say my client's body is the wisest person in the room.(03:46):And so I have shifted over the years from a more directive model where I'm the wisest person in the room and I'm going to name these things and I'm going to call these things out in your story to how do I just hold a space for your body to do what your body knows how to do? And I really ascribe to the idea that trauma is not about an event. It's about not having a safe place to go in the midst of or after an event. And so I think we need safe enough places to let our bodies do what our bodies have really evolved to do. And I really trust that more and more that less is more, and actually the more that I get out of the way and my clients can metabolize what they need to, that actually I think centers their agency more. Because if I'm always needing to defer my story to someone else to see things, I'm never going to be able to come into my own and say, no, I actually maybe disagree with you, or I see that differently, or I'm okay not figuring that out or whatever it might be. I get to stay centered in my own agency. And I think a professional model disavow someone of their own agency and their own ability to live their story from the inside outDanielle (05:19):To live their story from the inside out. I think maybe I associate a lot of grief with that because as you talk about it, you talk about maybe seeking healing in this frame, going to school for this frame, and I'm not dismissing all of the good parts of that or the things that I discovered through those insights, but sometimes I think even years later I'm like, why didn't they stick? If I know that? Why didn't they stick? Or why do I still think about that and go through my own mental gymnastics to think what is actually healing? What does it have to look like if that thing didn't stick and I'm still thinking about it or feeling it, what does that say about me? What does that say about the therapy? I think for me, the lack of ongoing collective places to engage those kinds of feelings have allowed things to just bumble on or not really get lodged in me as an alternative truth. Does that make sense?Jenny (06:34):Yeah. But one of the things I wonder is healing a lie? I have yet to meet someone I know that I get to know really well and I go, yeah, this person is healed regardless of the amount of money they've spent in therapy, the types of body work they've done. What if we were all just more honest about the fact that we're all messy and imperfect and beautiful and everything in between and we stopped trying to chase this imagined reality of healing that I don't actually think exists?(07:30):Well, I think I've said it before on here. I used to think it was somewhere I was going to get to where I wouldn't feel X, y, Z. So maybe it meant I got to a space where on the holidays I often feel sad. I have my whole life and I feel sad this year. So does that mean somehow the work that I've put in to understand that sadness, that I'm not healed because I still feel sadness? And I think at the beginning I felt like if I'm still feeling sadness, if there are triggers that come around the holidays, then that means that I'm not healed or I haven't done enough work or there's something wrong with me for needing more support. So now I'm wondering if healing more, and I think we talked about this a little bit before too, is more the growing awareness. How does it increase connection versus create isolation for me when I feel sad? That's one example I think of. What about you?Jenny (08:31):I think about the last time I went to Uganda and there's so much complexity with my role in Uganda as a white woman that was stepping into a context to bring healing. And my final time in Uganda, I was co-facilitating a workshop for Ugandan psychotherapists and I had these big pieces of parchment paper around the room with different questions because I thought that they would be able to be more honest if it was anonymous. And so one of the pieces of paper said, what would you want westerners to know who were coming to Uganda to do healing work? And it was basically 100% learn what healing means to us.(09:26):Bring your own ideas of healing, stop, try, stop basically. And for whatever reason, that time was actually able to really hear that and go, I'd actually have no place trying to bring my form of healing and implement that. You all have your own form of healing. And one of the things that they also said on that trip was for you, healing is about the individual. For us, healing is about reintegrating that person into the community. And that might mean that they still have trauma and they still have these issues, but if they are accepted and welcomed in, then the community gets to support them through that. It's not about bringing this person out and fixing them over here and then plucking them back. It's how does the community care for bodies that have been injured? And I think about how I broke my foot in dance class when I was 14 and I had to have reconstructive surgery and my foot and my ankle and my knee and my hip and my whole body have never been the same. I will never go back to a pre broken foot body. So why would we emotionally, psychologically, spiritually be any different? And I think some of it comes from this Christian cosmology of Eden that we're just keep trying to find ourselves back in Eden. And this is something I feel like I've learned from our dear friend, Rebecca Wheeler Walston, which is like, no, we're not going back to Eden. How do we then live in this post perfect pre-injury world that is messy and unhealed, but also how can we find meaning and connection in that?(11:28):That was a lot of thoughts, but that's kind of what comes up for me.Danielle (11:31):Oh man, there's a couple of things you said and I was like, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. I think you said healing is how do we as a community integrate people who have experienced trauma into our spaces? I think if you think back to Freud, it's plucking people out and then he reintroduced trauma and abuse them in the process. But somehow despite those things, he got to be an expert. I mean, so if you wonder how we got to Donald Trump, if you wonder how we get to all these leaders in our country getting to rape, abuse, sexually assault people, and then still maintain their leader position of power, even in our healing realm, we based a lot of our western ideologies on someone that was abusive and we're okay with that. Let's read them, let's learn from them. Okay, so that's one thing.(12:32):And Freud, he did not reintegrate these people back into the community. In fact, their process took them further away. So I often think about that too with therapy. I dunno, I think I told you this, Jenny, that sometimes I feel like people are trying their therapeutic learning out on me just in the community. Wax a boundary on you or I'll tell you no, and I'm just like, wait, what have you been learning? Or what have you been growing in and why aren't we having a conversation in the moment versus holding onto something and creating these spinoffs? But I do think that part of it is that healing hasn't been a way of how to reconnect with your community despite their own imperfections and maybe even places of harm. It's been like, how do you get away from that? And then they're like, give your family. Who's your chosen family? That's so hard. Does that actually work?Jenny (13:42):Yeah, it makes me think of this meme I saw that was so brutal that said, I treat my trauma. Trump treats tariffs, implementing boundaries arbitrarily that hurt everyone. And I've, we've talked a lot about this and I think it is a very white idea to be like, no, that's my boundary. You can't do that. No, that's my boundary. No, that's my boundary. No, that's my boundary. And it's like, are you actually healing or are you just isolating yourself from everything that makes you uncomfortable or triggered or frustrated and hear me? I do think there is a time and a place and a role for boundaries and everything in capitalism. I think it gets bastardized and turned into something that only reproduces whiteness and privilege and isolation and individuation individualism because capitalism needs those things. And so how do we hold the boundaries, have the time and a place and a purpose, and how do we work to grow relation with people that might not feel good all the time?(15:02):And I'm not talking about putting ourselves in positions of harm, but what about positions of discomfort and positions of being frustrated and triggered and parts of the human emotion? Because I agree with what you shared about, I thought healing was like, I'm not going to feel these things, but who decided that and who said those are unhealed emotions? What if those are just part of the human experience and healing is actually growing our capacity to feel all of it, to feel the sadness that you're feeling over the holidays, to feel my frustration when I'm around certain people and to know that that gets to be okay and there gets to be space for that.Danielle (15:49):I mean, it goes without saying, but in our capitalistic system, and in a way it's a benefit for us not to have a sad feeling is you can still go to work and be productive. It's a benefit for us not to have a depressed feeling. It's a benefit for us to be like, well, you hurt me. I can cut you off and I can keep on moving. The goal isn't healing. And my husband often says this about our medical care system. It's just how do we get you back out the door if anybody's ever been to the ER or you've ever been ill or you need something? I think of even recently, I think, I don't dunno if I told you this, but I got a letter in the mail, I've been taking thyroid medicine, which I need, and they're like, no, you can't take that thyroid medicine.(16:34):It's not covered anymore. Well, who decided that according it's Republicans in the big beautiful bill, it's beautiful for them to give permission to insurance companies, not to pay for my thyroid medicine when actually I think of you and I out here in community trying to work with folks and help folks actually participate in our world and live a life maybe they love, that's not perfect, but so how are you going to take away my thyroid medicine as I'm not special though, and you're not special to a system. So I think it is beneficial for healing to be like, how do you do this thing by yourself and get better by yourself, impact the least amount of people as possible with your bad feelings. Bad feelings. Yeah. That's kind of how I think of it when you talked about that.(17:50):So if our job is this and we know we're in this quote system and we imagine more collective community care, I know you're touring the country, you're seeing a lot of different things. What are you seeing when you meet with people? Are you connect with people? Are there any themes or what are you noticing?Jenny (18:09):Yeah, Sean and I joked, not joked before we moved into the van that this was our We Hate America tour and we were very jaded and we had a lot of stereotypes and we were talking at one point with our friend from the south and talking shit about the south and our friend was like, have you even ever been to the south? And we were like, no. And Rick Steves has this phrase that says it's hard to hate up close. And the last two years have really been a disruption in our stereotypes, in our fears, in our assumptions about entire groups of people or entire places that the theme has really felt like people are really trying their best to make the world a more beautiful place all over in a million different ways. And I think there are as many ways to bring life and beauty and resistance into the world as there are bodies on the planet.(19:21):And one of my mentors would say anti-racism about something you do. It's about a consciousness and how you are aware of the world. And that has been tricky for me as a recovering white savior who's like, no, okay, what do I do? How do I do the right thing? And I think I've been exposed to more and more people being aware whether that awareness is the whole globe or the nation or even just their neighbors and what does it mean to go drop off food for their neighbor or different ways in which people are showing up for each other. And sometimes I think that if we're only ever taught, which is often the case in therapy to focus on the trauma or the difficult parts, I think we're missing another part of reality, which is the beauty and the goodness and the somatic experiencing language would be the trauma vortex or your counter vortex.(20:28):And I think we can condition ourselves to look at one or focus on one. And so while I'm hesitant to say everything is love and light, I don't think that's true. And I don't think everything is doom and gloom either. And so I think I'm very grateful to be able to be in places where talking to people from Asheville who experienced the insane flooding last year talking about how they don't even know would just drop off a cooler of spring water every morning for them to flush their toilets and just this person is anonymous. They'll never get praise or gratitude. It was just like, this is my community. This is one thing I can do is bring coolers of water. And so I think it's just being able to hear and tell those stories of community gives us more of an imagination for how we can continue to be there for community.Danielle (21:38):Yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that you had this idea that you were willing to challenge it or this bias or this at the beginning just talking about it that you're willing to challenge.Jenny (21:59):Yeah, we said I think I know two things about every state, and they're probably both wrong. And that's been true. There's so much we don't know until we get out and experience it.Danielle (22:14):I think that's also symptom of, I think even here, I know people, but I don't know them. And often even just going someplace feeling like, oh, I don't have the time for that, or I can't do that, and the barriers, maybe my own exhaustion is true. I have that exhaustion or someone else has that exhaustion. But even the times I've avoided saying hi to someone or the times I've avoided small connections, I just think a lot, and maybe what is tiring is that the therapeutic model has reinforced isolation without having this other. You're talking about the counter vortex when we talk about healing is done in community, healing is done by witnessing, and somehow the assumption is that the therapist can be all of that witnessing and healing and community, and you're paying us and we're there and we're able to offer insight and we've studied and we have a professional job and we're not enough.(23:33):I often find myself in a state of madness and I can't do everything and I can speak to what I've chosen to do recently, but how do I function as a therapist in a system? I want people to feel less anxious. I want to be there, offer insights around depression or pay attention to their body with them. All of these really good, there aren't bad. They're good things. But yet when I walk out my door, if kids are hungry, that burden also affects my clients. So how do I not somehow become involved as an active member of my community as a therapist? And I think that's frustrated me the most about the therapy world. If we see the way the system is hurting people, how is our professional, it seems like almost an elite profession sometimes where we're not dug in the community. It's such a complicated mix. I don't know. What are you hearing me say? Yeah,Jenny (24:40):Yeah. I'm thinking about, I recently read this really beautiful book by Susan Rao called Liberated to the Bone, and Susan is a craniosacral therapist, so different than talk therapy, but in it, there was a chapter talking about just equity in even what we're charging. Very, very, very, very few people can afford 160 plus dollars a week(25:13):Extra just to go to therapy. And so who gets the privileges? Who gets the benefits from the therapy? And yet how do we look at how those privileges in themselves come at the expense of humanity and what is and what privileged bodies miss out on because of the social location of privilege? And yeah, I think it's a symptom that we even need therapy that we don't have communities where we can go to and say, Hey, this thing happened. It was really hard. Can we talk about it? And that is devastating. And so for me it's this both. And I do think we live in a world right now where therapy is necessary and I feel very privileged and grateful to be a therapist. I love my clients, I love the work I get to do. And I say this with many of my new clients.(26:22):My job is to work myself out of a job. And my hope is that eventually, eventually I want you to be able to recreate what we're growing here outside of here. And I do mean that individually. And I also mean that collectively, how do I work towards a world where maybe therapy isn't even necessary? And I don't know that that will ever actually happen, but if that gets to be my orientation, how does that shift how I challenge clients, how I invite them to bring what they're bringing to me to their community? And have you tried talking to that person about that? Have you tried? And so that it doesn't just become only ever this echo chamber, but maybe it's an incubator for a while, and then they get to grow their muscles of confrontation or vulnerability or the things that they've been practicing in therapy. Outside of therapy.Danielle (27:29):And I know I'm always amazed, but I do consistently meet people in different professions and different life circumstances. If you just sit down and listen, they offer a lot of wisdom filled words or just sometimes it feels like a balm to me. To hear how someone is navigating a tough situation may not even relate to mine at all, but just how they're thinking about suffering or how they're thinking about pain or how they're thinking about feeling sad. I don't always agree with it. It's not always something I would do. But also hearing a different way of doing things feels kind of reverberates in me, feels refreshing. So I think those conversations, it's not about finding a total agreement with someone or saying that you have to navigate things the same. I think it is about I finding ways where you can hear someone and hearing someone that's different isn't a threat to the way you want to think about the world.Jenny (28:42):As you say that, it makes me think about art. And something Sean often says is that artists are interpreters and their interpreting a human experience in a way that maybe is very, very specific, but in their specificity it gets to highlight something universal. And I think more and more I see the value in using art to talk about the reality of being unhealed. And that in itself maybe gets to move us closer towards whatever it is that we're moving closer towards or even it just allows us to be more fully present with what is. And maybe part of the issue is this idea that we're going to move towards something rather than how do we just keep practicing being with the current moment more honestly, more authentically?Danielle (29:51):I like my kids' art, honestly. I like to see what they interpret. I have a daughter who makes political art and I love it. I'll be like, what do you think about this? And she'll draw something. I'm like, oh, that's cool. Recently she drew a picture of the nativity, and I didn't really understand it at first, but then she told me it was like glass, broken glass and half of Mary's face was like a Palestinian, and the other half was Mexican, and Joseph was split too. And then the Roman soldiers looking for them were split between ice vests and Roman soldiers. And Herod had the face part of Trump, part of an ancient king. I was like, damn, that's amazing. It was cool. I should send it to you.(30:41):Yeah, I was, whoa. I was like, whoa. And then another picture, she drew had Donald Trump invading the nativity scene and holding a gun, and the man drew was empty and Joseph and Mary were running down the road. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. It is just interesting to me how she can tell the truth through art. Very, if you met this child of mine, she's very calm, very quiet, very kind, laid back, very sweet. But she has all these powerful emotions and interpretations, and I love hearing my kids play music. I love music. I love live music. Yeah. What about you? What kind of art do you enjoy?Jenny (31:28):I love dance. I love movement. I think there's so many things that when I don't have words for just letting my body move or watching other bodies move, it lets me settle something in me that I'm not trying to find words for. I can actually know that there's much more to being human than our little language center of our brain. I really love movies and cinema. I really love a lot of Polish films that are very artistic and speak to power in really beautiful ways. I just recently watched Hamnet in the theater and it was so beautiful. I just sobbed the entire time. Have you seen it?(32:27):I won't say anything about it other than I just find it to be, it was one of the most, what I would say is artistic films I've seen in a long time, and it was really, really moving and touching.Danielle (32:43):Well, what do you recommend for folks? Or what do you think about when you're thinking through the holiday season and all the complications of it?Jenny (32:57):I think my hope is that there gets to be more room for humanity. And at least what I've seen is a lot of times people making it through the holidays usually means I'm not going to get angry. I'm not going to get frustrated. I'm not going to get sad or I'm not going to show those things. And again, I'm like, well, who decided that we shouldn't be showing our emotions to people? And what if actually we get to create a little bit more space for what we're feeling? And that might be really disruptive to systems where we are not supposed to feel or think differently. And so I like this idea of 5%. What if you got to show up 5% more authentically? Maybe you say one sentence you wouldn't have said last year, or maybe you make one facial expression that wouldn't have been okay, or different things like that. How can you let yourself play in a little bit more mobility in your body and in your relational base? That would be my hope for folks. And yeah.Jenny (34:26):What would you want to tell people as they're entering into holiday season? Or maybe they feel like they're already just in the thick of the holidays?Danielle (34:35):I would say that more than likely, 90% of the people you see that you're rubbing shoulders with that aren't talking to you even are probably feeling some kind of way right now. And probably having some kind of emotional experience that's hard to make sense of. And so I know as we talk people, you might be like, I don't have that community. I don't have that. I don't have that. And I think that's true. I think a lot of us don't have it. So I think we talked about last week just taking one inch or one centimeter step towards connecting with someone else can feel really big. But I think it can also hold us back if we feel like, oh, we didn't do the whole thing at once. So I would say if people can tolerate even just one tiny inch towards connection or a tiny bit more honesty, when someone you notice is how you are and you're like, yeah, I feel kind of shitty. Or I had this amazing thing happen and I'm still sad. You don't have to go into details, but I wonder what it's like just to introduce a tiny a sentence, more of honesty into the conversation.Jenny (35:51):I like that. A sentence more of honesty.Danielle (35:54):Yeah. Thanks Jenny. I love being with you.Jenny (35:57):Thank you, friend. Same. Love you. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

The Old Town Pub in Kitsap was the inspiration for today's top 3 question about "dive bars" Here are a couple YELP reviews of the OTP!

Tacoma might expand its public camping ban. Longtime KIRO 7 reporter Deborah Horne is hanging it up after 34 years. Guest: South Kitsap High School student Dylan is raising awareness for a T-Mobile contest the school has entered in that could mean a new football stadium and gym. // Big Local: A Mariners fan had rare memorabilia stolen from his storage unit at his Mercer Island condo. Tacoma Parks is undergoing big staffing cuts. Kitsap County is the latest sheriff’s department to suffer major cuts. A 78-year-old Bellevue man is out on bail after possessing child pornography. // You Pick the Topic: A homeless man in Texas tried to kidnap a student after injecting him with an unknown substance.

TODAY WE WELCOME: ELIZABETH DOLL FROM: BRAVER ANGELS The Braver Angels Way We state our views freely and fully, without fear. We treat people who disagree with us with honesty, dignity and respect. We welcome opportunities to engage those with whom we disagree. We believe all of us have blind spots and none of us are not worth talking to. We seek to disagree accurately, avoiding exaggeration and stereotypes. We look for common ground where it exists and, if possible, find ways to work together. We believe that, in disagreements, both sides share and learn. In Braver Angels, neither side is teaching the other or giving feedback on how to think or say things differently. ---------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for your support! The B.I.Stander Podcast is a listener supported show, please consider subscribing.   BE A FRIEND OF PODCASTVILLE AND TELL A FRIEND  The BISTANDER Podcast! Blue Canary Auto NOW ALSO in Bremerton! Sound Reprographics Tideland Magazine Sheldon Orthodontics KitsapSmokestack.org

Danielle (00:20):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations about reality and talking a lot about what that means in the context of church, faith, race, justice, religion, all the things. Today, I'm so honored to have Sarah Van Gelder, a community leader, an example of working and continuing to work on building solidarity and networks and communication skills and settling into her lane. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hey, Sarah, it's so good to be with you. And these are just casual conversations, and I do actual minimal editing, but they do get a pretty good reach, so that's exciting. I would love to hear you introduce yourself. How do you introduce yourself these days? Tell me a little bit about who you are. Okay.Sarah (01:14):My name is Sarah Van Gelder and I live in Bremer and Washington. I just retired after working for the Suquamish Tribe for six years, so I'm still in the process of figuring out what it means to be retired, doing a lot of writing, a certain amount of activism, and of course, just trying to figure out day to day, how to deal with the latest, outrageous coming from the administration. But that's the most recent thing. I think what I'm most known for is the founding yes magazine and being the editor for many years. So I still think a lot about how do we understand that we're in an era that's essentially collapsing and something new may be emerging to take its place? How do we understand what this moment is and really give energy to the emergence of something new? So those are sort of the foundational questions that I think about.Danielle (02:20):Okay. Those are big questions. I hadn't actually imagined that something new is going to emerge, but I do agree there is something that's collapsing, that's disintegrating. As you know, I reached out about how are we thinking about what is reality and what is not? And you can kind of see throughout the political spectrum or community, depending on who you're with and at what time people are viewing the world through a specific lens. And of course, we always are. We have our own lens, and some people allow other inputs into that lens. Some people are very specific, what they allow, what they don't allow. And so what do we call as reality when it comes to reality and politics or reality and faith or gender, sexuality? It's feeling more and more separate. And so that's kind of why I reached out to you. I know you're a thinker. I know you're a writer, and so I was wondering, as you think about those topics, what do you think even just about what I've said or where does your mind go?Sarah (03:32):Yeah. Well, at first when you said that was the topic, I was a little intimidated by it because it sounded a little abstract. But then I started thinking about how it is so hard right now to know what's real, partly because there's this very conscious effort to distort reality and get people to accept lies. And I think actually part of totalitarian work is to get people to just in the Orwellian book 1984, the character had to agree that two plus two equals five. And only when he had fully embraced that idea could he be considered really part of society.(04:14):So there's this effort to get us to accept things that we actually know aren't true. And there's a deep betrayal that takes place when we do that, when we essentially gaslight ourselves to say something is true when we know it's not. And I think for a lot of people who have, I think that's one of the reasons the Republican party is in such trouble right now, is because so many people who in previous years might've had some integrity with their own belief system, have had to toss that aside to adopt the lies of the Trump administration, for example, that the 2020 election was stolen. And if they don't accept those lies, they get rejected from the party. And once you accept those lies, then from then on you have betrayed yourself. And in many ways, you've betrayed the people who trust you. So it's a really tough dilemma sort of at that political level, even for people who have not bought into the MAGA mindset, or I do think of it as many people have described as a cult.(05:31):Now, even for people who have not bought into that, I think it's just really hard to be in a world where so many fundamental aspects of reality are not shared with people in your own family, in your own workplace, in your own community. I think it's incredibly challenging and we don't really know, and I certainly don't know how to have conversations. In fact, this is a question I wanted to ask you to have conversations across that line of reality because there's so much places where feelings get hurt, but there's also hard to reference back to any shared understanding in order to start with some kind of common ground. It feels like the ground is just completely unreliable. But I'd love to hear your thoughts about how you think about that.Danielle (06:33):It's interesting. I have some family members that are on the far, far, including my parent, well, not my parents exactly, but my father, and I've known this for a while. So prior to what happened in a couple weeks ago with the murder of an activist, I had spent a lot of time actually listening to that activist and trying to understand what he stood for, what he said, why my family was so interested in it. I spent time reading. And then I also was listening to, I don't know if you're familiar with the Midas Touch podcast? Yeah. So I listened to the Midas Brothers, and they're exact opposites. They're like, one is saying, you idiot, and the other one is like, oh, you're an idiot. And so when I could do it, when I had space to do it, it was actually kind of funny to me.(07:34):Sometimes I'm like, oh, that's what they think of someone that thinks like me. And that's when that guy says, calls them an idiot. I feel some resonance with that. So I did that a lot. However, practically speaking, just recently in the last couple months, someone reached out to me from across the political ideology line and said, Hey, wouldn't it be fun if we got together and talked? We think really differently. We've known each other for 20 years. Could you do that? So I said, I thought about it and I was like, yeah, I say this, I should act on it. I should follow through. So I said, okay, yeah, let's meet. We set up a time. And when you get that feeling like that person's not going to show up, but you're also feeling like, I don't know if I want them to show up.(08:24):Am I really going to show up? But it's kind of like a game of chicken. Well, I hung in there longer, maybe not because I wanted to show up, but just because I got distracted by my four kids and whatnot, and it was summer, and the other person did say, oh, I sprained my ankle. I can't have a conversation with you. I was like, oh, okay. And they were like, well, let me reschedule. So I waited. I didn't hear back from them, and then they hopped onto one of my Facebook pages and said some stuff, and I responded and I said, Hey, wait a minute. I thought we were going to have a conversation in person. And it was crickets, it was silence, it was nothing. And then I was tagged in some other comments of people that I would consider even more extreme. And just like, this is an example of intolerance.(09:13):And I was like, whoa, how did I get here? How did I get here? And like I said, I'm not innocent. I associate some of the name calling and I have those explicit feelings. And I was struck by that. And then in my own personal family, we started a group chat and it did not go well. As soon as we jumped into talking about immigration and ice enforcement and stuff after there were two sides stated, and then the side that was on the far right side said, well, there's no point in talking anymore. We're not going to convince each other. And my brother and I were like, wait a minute, can we keep talking? We're not going to convince each other, but how can we just stop talking? And it's just been crickets. It's been silence. There's been nothing. So I think as you ask me that, I just feel like deep pain, how can we not have the things I think, or my perception of what the other side believes is extremely harmful to me and my family. But what feels even more harmful is the fact that we can't even talk about it. There's no tolerance to hear how hurtful that is to us or the real impact on our day-to-day life. And I think this, it's not just the ideology, but it's the inability to even just have some empathy there. And then again, if you heard a guy like Charlie Kirk, he didn't believe in empathy. So I have to remember, okay, maybe they don't even believe in empathy. Okay, so I don't have an answer. What about you?Sarah (11:03):No, I don't either. Except to say that I think efforts that are based on trying to convince someone of a rational argument don't work because this is not about analysis or about rationality, it's about identity, and it's about deep feelings of fear and questions of worthiness. And I think part of this moment we're in with the empire collapsing, the empire that has shorn up so much of our way of life, even people who've been at the margins of it, obviously not as much, but particularly people who are middle class or aspiring to be middle class or upper, that has been where we get our sense of security, where we get our sense of meaning. For a lot of white people, it's their sense of entitlement that they get to have. They're entitled to certain kinds of privileges and ways of life. So if that's collapsing and I believe it is, then that's a very scary time and it's not well understood. So then somebody comes along who's a strong man like Trump and says, not only can I explain it to you, but I can keep you safe. I can be your vengeance against all the insults that you've had to live with. And it's hard to give that up because of somebody coming at you with a rational discussion.(12:36):I think the only way to give that up is to have something better or more secure or more true to lean into. Now that's really hard to do because part of the safety on the right is by totally rejecting the other. And so my sense is, and I don't know if this can possibly work, but my sense is that the only thing that might work is creating nonpolitical spaces where people can just get to know each other as human beings and start feeling that yes, that person is there for me when things are hard and that community is there for me, and they also see me and appreciate who I am. And based on that kind of foundation, I think there's some hope. And so when I think about the kind of organizing to be doing right now, a lot of it really is about just saying, we really all care about our kids and how do we make sure they have good schools and we all need some good healthcare, and let's make sure that that's available to everybody. And just as much as possible keeps it within that other realm. And even maybe not even about issues, maybe it's just about having a potluck and enjoying food together.Danielle (14:10):What structures or how do you know then that you're in reality? And do you have an experience of actually being in a mixed group like that with people that think wildly different than you? And how did that experience inform you? And maybe it's recently, maybe it's in the past. Yeah,Sarah (14:32):So in some respects, I feel like I've lived that way all my life,(14:44):Partly because I spent enough time outside the United States that when I came home as a child, our family lived in India for a year. And so when I came home, I just had this sense that my life, my life and my perceptions of the world were really different than almost everybody else around me, but the exception of other people who'd also spent a lot of time outside the us. And somehow we understood each other pretty well. But most of my life, I felt like I was seeing things differently. And I don't feel like I've ever really particularly gained a lot of skill in crossing that I've tended to just for a lot of what I'm thinking about. I just don't really talk about it except with a few people who are really interested. I don't actually know a lot about how to bridge that gap, except again, to tell stories, to use language that is non-academic, to use language that is part of ordinary people's lives.(16:01):So yes, magazine, that was one of the things that I focused a lot on is we might do some pretty deep analysis, and some of it might include really drawing on some of the best academic work that we could find. But when it came to what we were going to actually produce in the magazine, we really focused in on how do we make this language such that anybody who picks this up who at least feels comfortable reading? And that is a barrier for some people, but anybody who feels comfortable reading can say, yeah, this is written with me in mind. This is not for another group of people. This is written for me. And then part of that strategy was to say, okay, if you can feel that way about it, can you also then feel comfortable sharing it with other people where you feel like they're going to feel invited in and they won't feel like, okay, I'm not your audience.(16:57):I'm not somebody you're trying to speak to. So that's pretty much, I mean, just that whole notion of language and telling stories and using the age old communication as human beings, we evolved to learn by stories. And you can tell now just because you try to tell a kid some lesson and their eyes will roll, but if you tell them a story, they will listen. They won't necessarily agree, but they will listen and it will at least be something they'll think about. So stories is just so essential. And I think that authentic storytelling from our own experience that feels like, okay, I'm not just trying to tell you how you should believe, but I'm trying to say something about my own experience and what's happened to me and where my strength comes from and where my weaknesses and my challenges come from as well.Yeah, you mentioned that, and I was thinking about good stories. And so one of the stories I like to tell is that I moved to Suquamish, which is as an Indian reservation, without knowing really anything about the people I was going to be neighbors with. And there's many stories I could tell you about that. But one of them was that I heard that they were working to restore the ability to dig clams and dies inlet, which is right where silver Dial is located. And I remember thinking that place is a mess. You're never going to be able to have clean enough water because clams require really clean water. They're down filtering all the crap that comes into the water, into their bodies. And so you don't want to eat clams unless the water's very clean. But I remember just having this thought from my perspective, which is find a different place to dig clamps because that place is a mess.(19:11):And then years later, I found out it was now clean enough that they were digging clamps. And I realized that for them, spending years and years, getting the water cleaned up was the obvious thing to do because they think in terms of multiple generations, and they don't give up on parts of their water or their land. So it took years to do it, but they stayed with it. And so that was really a lesson for me in that kind of sense of reality, because my sense of reality is, no, you move on. You do what the pioneers did. One place gets the dust bowl and you move to a different place to farm. And learning to see from the perspective of not only other individuals, but other cultures that have that long millennia of experience in place and how that shifts things. It's almost like to me, it's like if you're looking at the world through one cultural lens, it's like being a one eyed person. You certainly see things, but when you open up your other eye and you can start seeing things in three dimensions, it becomes so much more alive and so much more rich with information and with possibilities.Danielle (20:35):Well, when you think about, and there's a lot probably, how do you apply that to today or even our political landscape? We're finding reality today.Sarah (20:48):Well, I think that the MAGA cult is very, very one eyed. And again, because that sense of safety and identity is so tied up in maintaining that they're not necessarily going to voluntarily open a second eye. But if they do, it would probably be because of stories. There's a story, and I think things like the Jimmy Kimmel thing is an example of that.(21:21):There's a story of someone who said what he believed and was almost completely shut down. And the reason that didn't happen is because people rose up and said, no, that's unacceptable. So I think there's a fundamental belief that's widespread enough that we don't shut down people for speech unless it's so violent that it's really dangerous. We don't shut people down for that. So I think when there's that kind of dissonance, I think there's sometimes an opening, and then it's really important to use that opening, not as a time to celebrate that other people were wrong and we were right, but to celebrate these values that free speech is really important and we're going to stand up for it, and that's who we are. So we get back to that identity. You can feel proud that you were part of this movement that helped make sure that free speech is maintained in the United States. Oh, that'sDanielle (22:26):Very powerful. Yeah, because one side of my family is German, and they're the German Mennonites. They settled around the Black Sea region, and then the other side is Mexican. But these settlers were invited by Catherine the Great, and she was like, Hey, come over here. And Mennonites had a history of non-violence pacifist movement. They didn't want to be conscripted into the German army. And so this was also attractive for them because they were skilled farmers and they had a place to go and Russia and farm. And so that's why they left Germany, to go to Russia to want to seek freedom of their religion and use their farming skills till the soil as well as not be conscripted into violent political movements. That's the ancestry of the side of my family that is now far.(23:29):And I find, and of course, they came here and when they were eventually kicked out, and part of that them being kicked out was then them moving to the Dakotas and then kicking out the native tribes men that were there on offer from the US government. So you see the perpetuation of harm, and I guess I just wonder what all of that cost my ancestors, what it cost them to enact harm that they had received themselves. And then there was a shift. Some of them went to World War II as conscientious objectors, a couple went as fighters.(24:18):So then you start seeing that shift. I'm no longer, I'm not like a pacifist. You start seeing the shift and then we're to today, I don't know if those black sea farmers that moved to Russia would be looking down and being good job. Those weren't the values it seems like they were pursuing. So I even, I've been thinking a lot about that and just what does that reality mean here? What separations, what splitting has my family had to do to, they changed from these deeply. To move an entire country means you're very committed to your values, uproot your life, even if you're farming and you're going to be good at it somewhere else, it's a big deal.Sarah (25:10):Oh, yeah. So it also could be based on fear, right? Because I think so many of the people who immigrated here were certainly my Jewish heritage. There is this long history of pilgrims and people would get killed. And so it wasn't necessarily that for a lot of people that they really had an option to live where they were. And of course, today's refugees, a lot of 'em are here for the same reason. But I think one of the things that happened in the United States is the assimilation into whiteness.(25:49):So as white people, it's obviously different for different communities, but if you came in here and you Irish people and Italians and so forth were despised at certain times and Jews and Quakers even. But over time, if you were white, you could and many did assimilate. And what did assimilate into whiteness? First of all, whiteness is not a culture, and it's kind of bereft of real meaning because the real cultures were the original Irish and Italian. But the other thing is that how you make whiteness a community, if you will, is by excluding other people, is by saying, well, we're different than these other folks. So I don't know if this applies to your ancestors or not, but it is possible that part of what their assimilation to the United States was is to say, okay, we are white people and we are entitled to this land in North Dakota because we're not native. And so now our identity is people who are secure on the land, who have title to it and can have a livelihood and can raise our children in security. That is all wrapped up in us not being native and in our government, keeping native people from reclaiming that land.(27:19):So that starts shifting over generations. Certainly, it can certainly shift the politics. And I think that plus obviously the sense of entitlement that so many people felt to and feel to their slave holding ancestors, that was a defensible thing to do. And saying it's not is a real challenge to somebody's identity.(27:51):So in that respect, that whole business that Trump is doing or trying to restore the Confederate statues, those were not from the time of slavery. Those were from after reconstruction. Those were part of the south claiming that it had the moral authority and the moral right to do these centuries long atrocities against enslaved people. And so to me, that's still part of the fundamental identity struggle we're in right now, is people saying, if I identify as white, yes, I get all this safety and all these privileges, but I also have this burden of this history and history that's continuing today, and how do I reconcile those two? And Trump says, you don't have to. You can just be proud of what you have perpetrated or what your ancestors perpetrated on other people.And I think there was some real too. I think there were people who honestly felt that they wanted to reconcile the, and people I think who are more willing to have complex thoughts about this country because there are things to be proud of, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the long history of protecting free speech and journalism and education for everyone and so forth. So there are definitely things to be proud of. And then there are things to recognize. We're incredibly violent and have had multiple generations of trauma resulting from it. And to live in this country in authenticity is to recognize that both are true and we're stuck with the history, but we're not stuck without being able to deal with that. We can do restitution and reparations and we can heal from that.Danielle (30:15):How do you stay connected even just to your own self in that dissonance that you just described?Sarah (30:30):Well, I think part of having compassion is to recognize that we're imperfect beings as individuals, but we're also imperfect as cultures. And so for me, I can live with, I mean, this is something I've lived with ever since I was in India, really. And I looked around and noticed that there were all these kids my own age who were impoverished and I was not. And that I knew I have enough to eat at the end of the day, and I knew that many of them would not have enough to eat. So it's always been a challenge for me. And so my response to that has been when I was a kid was, well, I don't understand how that happened. It's certainly not right. I don't understand how it could be, and I'm going to do my best to understand it, and then I'll do my part to try to change it. And I basically had the same view ever since then, which is there's only so much I can do, but I'll do everything I can, including examining my own complicity and working through issues that I might be carrying as somebody who grew up in a white supremacist culture, working on that internally, and then also working in community and working as an activist in a writer in any way I can think of that I can make a contribution.(31:56):But I really do believe that healing is possible. And so when I think about the people that are causing that I feel like are not dealing with the harm that they're creating, I still feel just somebody who goes to prison for doing a crime that's not the whole of who they are. And so they're going to have to ultimately make the choice about whether they're going to heal and reconcile and repair the damage they will have to make that choice. But for my part, I always want to keep that door open in my relationship with them and in my writing and in any other way, I want to keep the door open.Danielle (32:43):And I hear that, and I'm like, that's noble. And it's so hard to do to keep that door open. So what are some of the tools you use, even just on your own that help you keep that door open to conversation, even to feeling compassion for people maybe you don't agree with? What are some of the things, maybe their internal resources, external resources could be like, I don't know, somebody you read, go back to and read. Yeah. What helps you?Sarah (33:16):Well, the most important thing for me to keep my sanity is a combination of getting exercise and getting outside(33:27):And hanging out with my granddaughter and other people I love outside of political spaces because the political spaces get back into the stress. So yeah, I mean the exercise, I just feel like being grounded in our bodies is so important. And partly that the experience of fear and anxiety show up in our bodies, and we can also process them through being really active. So I'm kind of worried that if I get to the point where I'm too old to be able to really move, whether I'll be able to process as well. So there's that in terms of the natural world, this aliveness that I feel like transcends me and certainly humanity and just an aliveness that I just kind of open my senses to. And then it's sort, they call it forest bathing or don't have to be in a forest to do it, but just sort of allowing that aliveness to wash over me and to sort of celebrate it and to remember that we're all part of that aliveness. And then spending time with a 2-year-old is like, okay, anything that I may be hung up on, it becomes completely irrelevant to her experience.Danielle (35:12):I love that. Sarah, for you, even though I know you heard, you're still asking these questions yourself, what would you tell people to do if they're listening and they're like, and they're like, man, I don't know how to even start a conversation with someone that thinks different than me. I don't know how to even be in the same room them, and I'm not saying that your answers can apply to everybody. Mine certainly don't either, like you and me are just having a conversation. We're just talking it out. But what are some of the things you go to if you know you're going to be with people Yeah. That think differently than you, and how do you think about it?Sarah (35:54):Yeah, I mean, I don't feel particularly proud of this because I don't feel very capable of having a direct conversation with somebody who's, because I don't know how to get to a foundational level that we have in common, except sometimes we do. Sometimes it's like family, and sometimes it's like, what did you do for the weekend? And so it can feel like small talk, but it can also have an element of just recognizing that we're each in a body, in perhaps in a family living our lives struggling with how to live well. And so I usually don't try to get very far beyond that, honestly. And again, I'm not proud of that because I would love to have conversations that are enlightening for me and the other person. And my go-to is really much more basic than that.Maybe it is. And maybe it creates enough sense of safety that someday that other level of conversation can happen, even if it can't happen right away.Danielle (37:14):Well, Sarah, tell me if people are looking for your writing and know you write a blog, tell me a little bit about that and where to find you. Okay.Sarah (37:26):Yeah, my blog is called How We Rise, and it's on Substack. And so I'm writing now and then, and I'm also writing somewhat for Truth Out Truth out.org has adopted the Yes Archive, which I'm very grateful to them for because they're going to keep it available so people can continue to research and find articles there that are still relevant. And they're going to be continuing to do a monthly newsletter where they're going to draw on Yes, archives to tell stories about what's going on now. Yes, archives that are specifically relevant. So I recommend that. And otherwise, I'm just right now working on a draft of an op-ed about Palestine, which I hope I can get published. So I'm sort of doing a little of this and a little of that, but I don't feel like I have a clear focus. The chaos of what's going on nationally is so overwhelming, and I keep wanting to come back to my own and my own focus of writing, but I can't say that I've gotten there yet.Danielle (38:41):I hear you. Well, I hope you'll be back, and hopefully we can have more conversations. And just thanks a lot for being willing to just talk about stuff we don't know everything about.As always, thank you for joining us, and at the end of the podcast are notes and resources, and I encourage you to stay connected to those who are loving in your path and in your community. Stay tuned.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

In this week's episode, our storytellers face life-or-death moments they'll never forget.Part 1: On a trip to Colombia for a research conference, biologist Stephanie Galla must rely on her fight-or-flight instincts when she is cornered by a mugger with a knife. Part 2: An ordinary day takes a shocking turn when Kim Weaver is struck by lightning. Stephanie Galla is an Assistant Professor in avian biology at Boise State University. She is interested in interdisciplinary conservation efforts for species in decline, and in particular, how genomic technologies can inform management decisions. Using DNA, her research team explores whether birds (including grouse and raptors) have the adaptive capacity to be resilient in a changing world. Outside of her everyday work life, she enjoys bird watching, making art, taking care of her backyard chickens, and watching TV with her husband and cat. Kim Weaver is a long-time storyteller and occasional guest host at Story Night in Bremerton, but she cut her storytelling chops as a high school math and engineering teacher. (No matter how much you heckle, you will not be as brutal as a room full of Algebra I students.) She has also told plenty of ocean tales as a Science Communication Fellow aboard the E/V Nautilus. Kim lives in Poulsbo, Washington where her primary role is meeting the demands of a high-maintenance corgi named Bird, but her actual job is providing STEM and EdTech support to teachers throughout the Kitsap and Olympic peninsulas.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Kitsap Rifle and Revolver Club v. Northland Insurance Company

Seattle Pride is running low on money as corporate sponsors back out. Former GOP Congressman Trey Gowdy pointed out the hypocrisy of Mahmoud Khalil. Trump is bringing back high pressure shower heads. // Big Local: A tragic update on the missing elderly woman in Tenino. Two women have been indicted in a massive identify theft scheme across Kitsap and Mason counties. Wenatchee’s own Hailey Van Lith was selected 11th overall by the Chicago Sky in the WNBA Draft. The FBI gave an update on the Tesla charging station attack in Lacey. // You Pick the Topic: A new study says that dogs are bad for the environment.

In this episode of Extinguished, David McClam and LaDonna Humphrey broaden their focus to highlight numerous unsolved murders in Kitsap and Mason Counties, emphasizing the need for justice for all victims, not just the well-known cases. They discuss several forgotten cases, shedding light on the circumstances and urging anyone with information to come forward. The hosts provide contact information for the Bremerton Police Department and Crime Stoppers, reinforcing their commitment to seeking justice for the forgotten.If you have any information about the murder of Helene "Nikki" Anderson and her daughter Adrienne Hill or any of the other cases please call:Bremerton Police Department: (360) 473-5228Crime Stoppers: +1 800-222-TIPSChapters00:00 Introduction to Extinguished00:19 The Unsolved Cases of Kitsap and Mason Counties01:46 Barbara Williams: A Chilling Case02:35 The Murder of Diane Decker03:05 The Disappearance of Serena Marie Dingler04:02 A History of Forgotten Cases05:14 The Importance of Community InvolvementRecognize the importance of remembering victims of unsolved murders.Understand the reasons why some cases remain cold, including lack of evidence and media attention.Encourage listeners to contact the Bremerton Police Department or Crime Stoppers with any information.Emphasize that justice should be available for all, not just a select few.Acknowledge that cold cases can be solved with new information.

Tom and Joey are joined by Dave Johnson of Kitsap Marina to talk about halibut opportunities, they give this week’s edition of the Northwest Outdoor Report, they are joined by Mikey Lawrence of Bigsalmonresrot.net in the Weldcraft Wheelhouse to talk about the Neah Bay Lingcod opener next Saturday, then they end the show with Poulso RV’s Really? Where? with Pat Caldwell to talk about the upcoming Seattle RV Show.

Every time I drive past windy point, those abandoned yellow cabins catch my eye. You know the ones- perched above highway 3 with their broken windows staring down at passing cars. Join me for a journey through one of Kitsap's most visible ruins, before development erases it from our daily commute.Extended show notes on the Bremelore Substack . To hear more, visit bremelore.substack.com

After a career in Los Angeles, Aljolynn Sperber returned to her hometown with a vision. She became the Executive Director of Visit Kitsap Peninsula, combining her marketing skills with her passion for her community. Her goal is to both promote the area to visitors and build a strong sense of belonging for locals.This is not just about attracting tourists; for Aljolynn, it's about making everyone feel welcome. This involves partnering with local businesses and prioritizing core values. "The overall story is we want people to feel like they belong when they come here," she shares on the Be A Marketer podcast, a series dedicated to helping Constant Contact customers succeed with marketing.In this episode, host Dave Charest and Aljolynn dive into her strategies for destination marketing. They discuss the need for a modern, mobile-responsive website and how she uses data to inform her decisions. They also cover the value of email segmentation and how she engages her audience with polls and surveys.Tune in to discover how Aljolynn balances innovation with tradition, cultivates meaningful community connections, and consistently promotes her core values, while boosting Kitsap.Additional Resources:Why a Mobile Responsive Website MattersMobile-Friendly vs Mobile-ResponsiveGoal Getter: 3 Email Marketing Goals to Set for the New YearSurvey Questions: Find the Best Tools for Crafting Effective SurveysSet up to automatically resend to contacts who don't open their email feature in Constant ContactMeet Today's Guest: Aljolynn Sperber of Visit Kitsap Peninsula

Today we welcome Author Nancy Blakey Nancy was born in Idaho and raised in the Pacific Northwest where she now lives on an island in Puget Sound. In her adult life she married in Scotland and lived in the Highlands, then they moved to South Australia. Later she spent summers in Alaska with her family during the Bristol Bay salmon season. Nancy and her husband Greg have four children. While raising her family she had a syndicated kids' activity column called Mudpies that was collected and published into five books. Years later, after Greg's premature death, she was drawn to spend more time outdoors, and By the Shore and The Mountains Are Calling were born. These guide books encourage people to explore the wonders of the Pacific Northwest and make memories--one of the most precious assets we possess. Nancy believes there is no rewind. She believes some day is now. The B.I.STANDER Podcast is a conversational podcast unique to Bainbridge Island and Seattle Washington, that covers the Arts, Society & Culture told through Human Interest stories. The intent is to introduce interesting people, ideas, and conversations. We are not perfect and that's OK! Thank you for your support! The B.I.Stander Podcast is a listener supported show, please consider subscribing.   BE A FRIEND OF PODCASTVILLE AND TELL A FRIEND  The BISTANDER Podcast! Blue Canary Auto NOW ALSO in Bremerton! Sound Reprographics Tideland Magazine Song "Fly on the Wall by LeRoy Bell and available at:  Tower Records! Additional sound effects by: https://www.zapsplat.com/ Support the Show on PATREON "Be a friend, tell a friend!"

Emily Randall has been a “person to watch” in Washington politics for a while now. Randall’s first electoral victory was in 2018, when she flipped a Republican held state house seat in the 26th district. Now, Randall is headed to congress. Last month, she won the election to become the US Representative-elect for Washington’s 6th district. That includes both peninsulas, most of Tacoma, and counties including Kitsap, Mason, and Grays Harbor. Randall is heading to the other Washington where, unlike this one, Republicans control the House, Senate and executive branch. And Democrats are weighing their options for how to maintain any semblance of power in the new administration. Guest: Emily Randall, US Representative-elect for Washington's 6th district Thank you to the supporters of KUOW, you help make this show possible! If you want to help out, go to kuow.org/donate/soundsidenotes Soundside is a production of KUOW in Seattle, a proud member of the NPR Network. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

https://www.philallenjr.comPhil is a man driven by vision, compelled to fulfill God's calling on his life. His passion is not only to see individuals come to know and grow in a relationship with Jesus, but to see social transformation that includes addressing systems and structures that affect the everyday lives of people, especially those typically pushed to the margins because of oppression, injustices, and inequities grounded in race, gender, sexuality, ability, age, and any part of their being that does not fit the dominant group membership.As an All-American high school basketball player, Phil attended North Carolina A&T University to play basketball and study architectural engineering. Upon his call to ministry years later, he went on to receive his Bachelors in Theological Studies, with an emphasis in Christian Ministries from The King's University. While working as a full-time lead pastor of Own Your Faith Ministries (Santa Clarita, CA), Phil completed a Master of Arts in Theology degree from Fuller Theological Seminary, studying Christian Ethics. As a current PhD candidate in Christian Ethics, with a minor in Theology and Culture, his research involves race theory, theology, ethics, culture, and the theology and ethics of Martin Luther King, Jr.He is founder of the non-profit organization Racial Solidarity Project based in Los Angeles, CA. His passion for dialogue, resistance, and solutions to the problem of systemic racism was fostered by his family and personal life experiences as well as his educational journey. Phil was recently named a Pannell Center for Black Church Studies Fellow at Fuller Theological Seminary. As a fellow his research on Black Church theology, liturgy, and ethics further undergirds his own ethics of justice, healing racial trauma, and racial solidarity. He has taught undergraduate classes on biblical ethics toward racial solidarity. His fields of interest include Christian ethics, Black Church studies, race theory, pneumatology, theology of justice and theology of play and sport.When he isn't pastoring, studying, or writing, Phil enjoys running, bowling, basketball, and just watching his favorite television shows. As an all-around creative, he is an author, a teacher, pastor, filmmaker (see his documentary Open Wounds), but first a poet. His diverse experiences and interests have gifted him with the ability to relate to and inspire just about anyone he meets.He is the author of two books, Open Wounds: A Story of Racial Tragedy, Trauma, and Redemption (Fortress Press, 2021) and The Prophetic Lens: The Camera and Black Moral Agency From MLK to Darnella Frazier (Fortress Press, 2022).Speaker 1 (00:13):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and the church. And tune in and listen to this conversation today. Dr. Phil Allen, Jr and myself are going to have a conversation today. And if you go to his website, phil allen jr.com, you can see that his quote is Justice Matters, my neighbors Matter, creation matters, faith Matters. And really in this conversation, I want you to pay attention to those points that he makes in this quote from his website and how that filters through in the research he does in the point of view he's bringing to the table for this conversation on what are we doing? And I think a lot of people are like, are we still talking about the Yes, we're still talking about it. Yes. It's still relevant and we're talking about it because from understanding creates pathways towards action, towards organizing, towards being together with one another in community so that we can support justice, so that we can support our neighbors so that we have faith in creator. And so I want to encourage you to listen through that lens. Go find his website, phil allen jr.com. Look up this amazing man, this professor, he's got a podcast, he's got books, poetry speaking, a documentary. Don't hesitate to reach out, but as you listen, focusing on justice Neighbor and creation and Faith.(01:48):Yeah. What has it been like for you since the election? Or what's that been likeSpeaker 2 (01:57):Since the election? The first couple of days were, I was a bit numb. I was very disappointed in 2016. I wasn't surprised. I had this feeling that he was going to win, even though people thought Hillary would win. I just didn't have the confidence in those battleground swing state. I thought he represented something that a lot of people in this country are drawn to. And this year I really felt like she was going to win. Vice President Harris was going to win because of the coalition, because of the momentum. People can critique and criticize her campaign, but there's nothing orthodox about starting a hundred days before. And I think what they did was calculated. I won't say perfect, but it was good. It was a solid campaign given what she had to work with. And I really thought she would win. And I was just extremely disappointed. It was like this heaviness over me, but then after day two, things started to feel a little bit lighter. I just put things in perspective. I wasn't going to sulk and sit in some sadness because this man won. I think I was more disappointed in the people like what is our standard, particularly Christians, conservative Christians, what is the standard now? How low is the bar?(04:04):And honestly, I don't know if there's anyone else on the planet, any other demographic that could have done that with 34 felonies saying the things that he says about people of color, about women, about veterans. I mean, he just literally does not care. There's no man or woman of color. There's no woman, there's no one else that could do that. And people would ignore everything, do theological gymnastics and to justify everything and still vote for 'em. No one else could pull it off. And I think for me, it just solidified the type of country we live in. So I'm good now, as good as I can be. I can't change it, so I'm not going to sulk and be sad. I'm going to continue to do the work that God has called me to do and continue to chat, put a video out. I think you may have seen it on social media just to put my thoughts out there, put words to my feelings and just move forward. Yep.Speaker 1 (05:24):When you think about, is it okay if I ask you a couple of questions?Speaker 3 (05:28):Yeah.Speaker 1 (05:29):When you think about your research and completing your PhD and the theory and work and the evidence and structures you uncovered in that research, then how does that continue to frame your outlook for where we are today? ItSpeaker 2 (05:52):Couldn't, this election was interesting. This election confirmed for me, my research,Speaker 1 (05:59):Yes.Speaker 2 (06:02):I'll give you one part of it. In my research I talk about the plantation complex and it's made up of three major categories and there are subcategories under each one, organizing properties, modes of power, and operating practices. Three major categories Under organizing properties, there are four properties I list. I'm not saying it's an exhaustive list. Someone else might come in and want to tweak it and change it. That's fine. What I came up with is for vision covenant, spatial arrangement and epistemology, and specifically theological scientific epistemology, specifically white racial covenant. For those two, those are the specific terms I use. And to me, vice President Harris asked a question, this is about what kind of country do we want? That's a statement about what kind of vision do you have? Would you like to see this country embody? So vision is always there. We're always talking about, we're always casting vision when we tell stories, when we talk about how we want the, whether it's the education system, immigration, whatever. We're casting a vision, but what do we want to see? And then that ends up driving so much of what weSpeaker 3 (07:45):Do.Speaker 2 (07:48):We have the vision now of this is what America wants.Speaker 1 (07:52):Yes,Speaker 2 (07:54):They want this man with all, he's not just a flawed human being, in my opinion. He's a vile human being. She also is not a perfect candidate. She's a decent woman. She's a decent person. Two vastly different visions for this country. Then you talk about spatial arrangement. Electoral college is about spatial arrangement. You have your blue states, your red states, but everything comes down to five or six. Sometimes one state decides the election, and it all depends on who's living in that state, how are the districts redrawn. All types of stuff can play out. But to me, I saw that going on and then I saw white racial covenant play out. You look at who voted for who, percentage wise, and I kept seeing this allegiance, this covenant with Donald Trump, and there had to have been independents and even some Democrats that voted for him to have voted at such a high clip when his base is only 37%, 40% at most, and a Republican party is half. And he gets, I don't know. I just started to see those things play out. And from my dissertation, just those four categories, the stuff that we don't even pay attention to, they shape society, vision, spatial arrangement, covenant whose allegiance, who has your allegiance, because that drives decision making that drives what you value. It influences what you value. And epistemology, theological, scientific epistemology, he's the chosen one.(10:03):God chose him for such a time as the, I keep hearing this language. So they're using theological language to justify everything about this man. So yeah.Speaker 1 (10:18):Yeah.Speaker 2 (10:19):It's hard for me not to see through that lens. Now that I spent six years researching it, it's hard for me not to see through those lenses the lens of power, how power is operating, what type of power is operating and the practices and all that stuff.Speaker 1 (10:38):There's so much you said that I know we could jump into. Particularly when you talk about the white racial covenant. I was struck at, there's intersection between our research areas, and I was thinking about in grad school before I even got into my post-grad research, I wrote about three things for the Latinx Latino community that kind of inform the way white supremacy has infiltrated our lives. One is silence, one is compliance, and then lastly is erasure. And as we saw the swing, and they've talked ad nauseum about Latinos when we are a minimal part of the electoral vote, but they've talked ad nauseum about the movement specifically of men. But when you think of the demand to be silent over centuries, the demand to comply, and then the sense that maybe I can erase myself and what can I trade in for the good graces to get into the good graces of white racial identity and vote against my own best interests, vote against protecting my community, vote against even maybe even protecting my grandma or my kid that's on daca, et cetera. What was the cost? And as you were explaining that, I was seeing it through that lens that you were describing.Speaker 2 (12:17):Yep, yep. What's interesting is one of the practices, I talk about tokenization on the plantation or some would say tokenism, and there's always white racial covenant is not just among white people.(12:42):It's anyone from any group, including my community. Those who want, they want to be in closer proximity to whiteness. They want to be accepted into the white way of being. And when I say whiteness, you understand what I'm saying? I'm not just talking about white persons or white ethnicity. We're talking about a way of being in the world, a lens through which you see the world and move in that. And you can be a person of color and totally embrace whiteness, internalize that it only takes a few to then that's an effort to legitimize it, to legitimize. See, look at those. Look at that black guy or that Latino seed. They get it, and it further legitimizes that worldview.Speaker 1 (13:38):Yeah. I know for me, I felt so deeply, I don't think disappointment is the right word, but maybe I felt betrayed, but also I felt deeply, I just felt the weight of what centuries have done. And then I think it was like a Sunday afternoon where he's in Madison Square Garden using the most vile of comments, the most vile of comments to degrade our race, our ethnicity, where we come from, and then to turn around and garner a vote. I mean, it fits into your theory.Speaker 2 (14:26):So think about what he said when he first ran in 2016. I can stand on Fifth Avenue in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and I won't lose any votes. Now, fast forward to 2024 in Madison Square Garden, the lineup, the things he said, he didn't condemn anything. He invites white supremacists into his home for dinner. He welcomes them. He literally does not care because he understands the allegiance, not just from his base, but even those adjacent to his base. And that's why I keep saying, how low is this bar that you can have those people? Because everyone thought, oh, this is it. That just killed it for 'em. It did not matter. No, it did not matter. Some of it is, I think based on race, and some of it is based on gender. Some of it's a combination of both. And that's why I said in my video, she didn't stand a chance anytime people kept saying, we need to hear more and I need to get to know her more. Well, what are you watching?Speaker 3 (15:47):WhatSpeaker 2 (15:47):Else do you need to know? She's told her whole story over and over again. She's literally laid out bullet point, what she wants to do. What else is there half the people who say that don't even understand these concepts anyway?Speaker 3 (16:04):Yeah,Speaker 2 (16:05):They don't understand it. They're not understand this stuff.Speaker 1 (16:11):I guess what you say, really, it triggered something in my mind and see what you do with it. He stood in Madison Square Garden, and I actually wonder now, looking at it with the lens of a tiny bit of space that maybe if even that was riveting for people, even some of the adjacent people of color that voted for him, because it's riveting that someone could have that much power and get away with it and move in the world without consequence. And I think a lot of people are looking for that sort of autonomy or freedom to move or it's appealing. The power of it is appealing in a way that I didn't think about it before you said it, and I don't know that that's it, but I get curious about it because it definitely didn't take any votes away.Speaker 2 (17:09):And I'm glad you used the word curious because we're just theorizing right now, sharing opinions how we feel. And so I'm curious as well about a lot of these things. I'm just at a loss for words. I don't even know how to wrap my mind around that. I do think is an appeal though. I do think there is in my dissertation that the type of power that I talk about is autocratic ideological power where the ideology, it's not a person, the autonomous sovereign power. And I borrowed from Fuko, so I'm using a little bit of fuko, Michelle Fuko, and he uses the term sovereign power like king, a dictator, Vladimir Putin type of person. And I'm saying, don't have a king. And it's not one person with that type of autonomy, but there's an ideology that has that type of autonomy and we can add appeal, and it's the ideology of white supremacy. And it's almost like, well, he should be able to get away with that subconsciously. Not saying that people are saying that consciously, but it's almost like it's normalized like he should because had she said any of those things, oh, she shouldn't say those things. How dare she?(18:44):Or if Obama, when Obama said they clinging to their guns and their religion, they wanted to crucify. He shouldn't say those things. How dare he? But Trump can say, grab him by the lose no votes,Speaker 1 (19:04):Right?Speaker 2 (19:06):I don't like some of the things that he says. I wish he would tone down some of the things that he says, but so there's an autonomy. So where is it? Is it in him or is it in the ideology that he embodies? And it's appealing because so many people can share in that on different levels. So the idea is that if you go back to the plantation, every white person had some level of power over a black body and immunity, unless they got in trouble with a slave owner for killing or damagingSpeaker 1 (19:45):Property.Speaker 2 (19:47):But every person on every level shared to varying degrees in this autocracy of ideology, autocracy of white supremacy, same thing is happening today. So he can say it, the comedian can say it, congressmen and women can say it, Marjorie till green can say whatever she wants. Gates can say, I mean, these people can say whatever they want, especially if they're in closer proximity to him because he is the ultimate right now, the ultimate embodiment of the superiority of whiteness. And so there is this subconscious, I think, appeal to that. How we are drawn to the bad guy in the film. We're drawn to the villain in the wrestling match. We just kind of drawn to them a bit. There's an appeal to that type of power and to get away with it. So I like that word appeal to it,Speaker 1 (21:04):Man. I mean, I started getting really scared as you were talking because this power and this appeal and the way you're describing it, well, how did you say it? The ideology or is, what did you call it? Autonomous powerSpeaker 2 (21:27):Autocratic. Ideological power.Speaker 1 (21:29):Autocratic. Ideological power isn't just one person. It's embodied in this feeling. And that I think fits with the way I'm thinking. I got scared as you were talking because it's been hyper-focused on immigration and on a certain group of people so you can gain proximity to power. And I kind of wonder how is that going to play out? How will people play that out in their imaginations or in their communities is like what gets them closer to that power? Especially if, I mean, we could debate on tariffs and all that stuff, but no one I'm hearing from is telling me that tariffs are going to bring down the cost of goods. I've heard that nowhere. So then what are you going to do if you feel more hopeless and you're part of that working, let's say white or white adjacent class, where will you focus your energy? What can you control? So I think as you were talking, I started getting scared. I was like, this is a dangerous thing.Speaker 2 (22:34):So here's what I've told someone. Sadly, the only person who could have beaten Trump in 2020 was Joe Biden, a white man. A white woman wouldn't have been able to do it. Black woman, black man, Latino, Asian. It took a white man because people still needs to be, they needed to vote against him. They needed to see themselves. That's the majority of the country. They need to see themselves. Biden wasn't the best candidate by far. No, but he was the only one who could beatSpeaker 1 (23:16):Trump.Speaker 2 (23:17):Now, he wasn't going to win this election, even though Trump has shown signs over the last year or so of aging, doesn't matter. He's loud and boisterous. So he gets a little bit of a pass. But guess what? If that hopelessness sets in the left, the Democrats are going to have to present another white man. You're not going to beat the part. You're not going to win the next election with someone other than a white man to beat this. He is the embodiment. He is the golden calf. You need at least a beige calf. You're not going to win the next election with with someone that looks like me or you, or its going to be, that's the sad part. So with that hopelessness, if they feel that and they feel like, okay, it is been the last four years has not been what he's promised, you're going to have to present them with an alternative that's still adjacent, at least in aesthetics, optics. And then you might, after that, if everything is going well, now someone can come off of that. This is the unfortunate reality. Biden is the only one that was going to be able to beat him in 2020, and I think it's going to take the same thing in 2020. It's definitely going to take a man because he's got the movement, the masculine movement. He's brought that up to serve. It's going to take a man to do it. Unfortunately, a woman may not be able to push back against that, but I think it's going to have to take a white man.Speaker 1 (25:08):Yeah, I think you're right. I don't think another female can win against him. There's no waySpeaker 2 (25:15):He embodies the ideology of white in his posture, his tone, his rhetoric, his height, everything about him embodies, if you look at the history in this country of whiteness is the physical manifestation of it. And I'm not the only one that has said that.Speaker 1 (25:37):No,Speaker 2 (25:39):He is not just a physical manifestation. He is, at least in this era, he is the manifestation of it. He is the embodiment of it, attitude and everything.Speaker 1 (25:59):Yeah, I guess you just find me silent because I believe you. It's true. There's no doubt in my mind. And it's also stunning that this is where we're at, that people, again, I mean to fall back on what you've researched, people chose the plantation owner,Speaker 2 (26:31):And many people who do don't see themselves in the position of the enslaved,Speaker 1 (26:39):No,Speaker 2 (26:39):They see themselves as benefiting from or having favor from the plantation owner. They're either the overseer or the driver, or they're one of the family members or guests on the plantation. But no one's going to willingly choose a system that they don't benefit from. So they believe they will benefit from this, or they're willing to accept some treatment for the promise of prosperity. That's the other issue that we have. People see this. They see the world through an economic lens only. For me, I got to look at the world through a moral lens, an ethical lens. That's how I'm trained, but that's just how I've always been. Because if I look at it through an economic lens, I'll put up with anything, as long as you can put money in my pocket, you can call me the N word. If that's my, you can probably call me the N word. As long as you put money in my pocket, I'll tolerate it. And that's unfortunately how people see, again, when people talk about the economy, how many people understand economics,Speaker 1 (27:53):Honestly, whatSpeaker 2 (27:54):Percentage they do understand how much it's costing me to pay these groceries. What they don't understand is the why underneath all that, because I think they did one thing they could have done better. The Democrats is explain to people corporate greed. The cost of living is always going up. It may drop a little bit, but it's always doing this.Speaker 1 (28:29):But Phil, I would argue back with you that I don't think these people wanted to understand.Speaker 2 (28:35):You don't have to argue. I agree. ISpeaker 1 (28:38):Talked to some folks and I was like, dude, tariffs, your avocado's going to be $12. They mostly come from Mexico. How are you going to afford an avocado? And it's like, it didn'tSpeaker 2 (28:52):Matter. The golden calf.Speaker 1 (28:57):The golden calf, Elliot comes back. I mean, I want to work to make these people, in a sense, ignorant. I want to work to think of it like that, not because it benefits me, but maybe it does. To think that some people didn't vote with the ideas that we're talking about in mine, but they absolutely did.Speaker 2 (29:23):And I think you're dead on. It's a willingness or unwillingness to want to know. I'm just simply saying that many don't. You may see people interviewed on television or surveys, or even when you talk to people, I'm just simply saying they don't really understand. I got three degrees. I still need to read up and study and understand economics. That's not my field, right? So I'm still learning the nuances and complexities of that, but I'm a researcher by nature. Now most people aren't. So I'm just simply saying that they just don't know. They think they know, but they really don't. But a more accurate description of that is what you just said. Most people are unwilling to know. Because here's the thing, if you learn the truth about something or the facts about something, now you're forced to have to make a decision you might not want to make.Speaker 1 (30:28):Exactly. That's exactly right. Yep.Speaker 2 (30:35):It's like wanting to ban books and erase history and rewrite history. Because if you really did, to this day, whether I'm teaching or having conversations, I share basic stuff, stuff about history. And there's so many people that I never knew that, and I knew this stuff when I was a kid. I never knew that. What are we learning? Is everything stem.Speaker 1 (31:11):When Trump referenced the operation under Eisenhower Wetback, operation Wetback, I knew about that. I had researched it after high school in college, and I knew at that point, part of the success of that project was that they were able to deport citizens and stem the tide of, they didn't want them having more kids or reproducing, so they got rid of entire families. That was very intentional. That's purposeful. And so when they talk about deporting criminals, well, there just aren't that many criminals to deport. But for the Latino to understand that they would have to give up the idea that they could become adjacent to that power structure and benefit.Speaker 2 (32:12):Absolutely.Speaker 1 (32:14):YouSpeaker 2 (32:14):Have to give up something.Speaker 1 (32:15):You have to give up something. And so they traded in their grandma, literally, that's what's going to happen.Speaker 2 (32:27):And so now there's a connection between the golden calf and fear. So not only is he the idol, but he has the rhetoric to tap the fear, the anxiety. And when you've been in majority for a few hundred years now, the idea of no longer being the majority in the country scares a lot of people. It doesn't scare people of color. We don't really think about it because we've always been the minority. And I don't think one group is going to be the majority, maybe the Latino community because of immigration one day, maybe, probably not in my lifetime, but most of us are used to being in the minority that scares the dominant group, the white group. I've had conversations within the church years ago where this anxiety, not just with Latinos, but Muslims,Speaker 1 (33:41):Yep, MuslimsSpeaker 2 (33:42):As well. This fear that they're having so many more babies than we are, and how they try to pull people of color who are Americans into this by saying they're trying to have more babies than Americans. So now they want us to also have this fear of the other. So you got the idol who has the rhetoric to tap into the sentiments,Speaker 1 (34:13):Right? Yeah. Sorry, keep going. No,Speaker 2 (34:15):Go on. Go, go.Speaker 1 (34:17):Well, I mean, it just brings up the whole idea of when he said, the migrants are taking the black jobs. I was like, what jobs are these? And the intent is only to divide us.Speaker 2 (34:31):Yes. So I've had conversations with some African-Americans who I know are not, I know these people. These are just random people. They're not as in tune with politics. They're just kind of speaking the taglines that they heard. And I said, what jobs are they taking? And they can't answer that. But it's the same thing that happened 400 years ago almost. When they created the very terms white and black. There was this revolt among poor whites and poor and enslaved black people, particularly in Virginia. And I'm thinking of Bacon's Rebellion and how do you defeat that coalition? You divide them, you find a way to divide them. How's that? They came up with the term 1670s. They came up with the term white and black, and they had a range, I think it was somewhat white, almost white. White, somewhat black, almost black, black. But they had the termed white and black. And if you were of European descent, you could now be considered a white person. And with that came privileges, or as WEB, the voice would say the wages of whiteness, theSpeaker 1 (35:55):WagesSpeaker 2 (35:55):Of you could own property. And if you own a certain amount of property, you could vote. You could be a citizen. You had freedom of mobility. If you were black, you were meant to be enslaved in perpetuity. So now the poor whites, even though they did not benefit from slavery,Speaker 3 (36:20):BecauseSpeaker 2 (36:22):The free enslaved Africans took the opportunities from poor whites who were able to work the land and earn some type of money, but now you've got free labor. So slavery actually hurt them. And the hierarchy, it hurt them. Wealthy white folks did not look well upon for white people. But why were they so had such allegiance? Because they had this identity, this membership into whiteness. And at least they weren't on the bottom.Speaker 1 (37:04):At least they weren't on the bottom. That's right.Speaker 2 (37:07):And so the same tactic is happening here is find a way to divide black and brown, divide black and Palestinian divide, because you knew black women were going to vote 90 plus percent. I thought black men would be 80 plus percent. Turns out they were 78, 70 9%. I thought black men would've been a little bit higher than that, but you knew black folks were going to vote in mass. But you find a way to divide and separate others from that coalition.Speaker 1 (37:53):Yeah. Well, here we are, Phil. What gives you, and I know we could talk about this for a long time. What are you operating on right now? I know you said you're not going to wallow in the sadness at the very beginning, but what is your organizing moment? What is your faith compelling you to do in this moment? How do you see the coming year?Speaker 2 (38:19):I am doubling down on my voice being more direct, being more the truth teller. I never want to lose truth with grace. I don't want to become the thing I disdain, but it is through my writing that I'm now doubling down and able to publish and put out what I believe is truth. It's factually based evidence-based. Some may call controversial, some may not. I don't know. But that's where I put my energy because I have more energy now to do that since I graduated, so I can invest more time, whether it's working on my next book, project op-Eds articles in the next year. So that's what I'm hoping to write. I'm hoping to take a lot of what I learned in the last six years and put it out there for the world. So it is just motivating me even more, whether it's poetry, academic stuff, teaching, and I've already been doing some of that. I just have the energy now to engage more.Speaker 1 (39:54):And sadly, you have more material to work with.Speaker 2 (39:57):Yeah, yeah, that'sSpeaker 1 (39:59):True. It's happening in real time. Yeah,Speaker 2 (40:03):Real time.Speaker 1 (40:05):Well, how can folks get ahold of you if they want to invite you to be part of their group or to come speak orSpeaker 2 (40:12):Easiest would be phil allen jr.com. And they can go to, and you can email me through there, social media on Instagram, Phil Allen Jr. PhD, Facebook at Phil Allen Jr. Not the author page, the personal page. I'm still trying to delete the author page, but for whatever reason, Facebook makes it very difficult to delete your own page.Speaker 1 (40:42):They do,Speaker 2 (40:44):But Phil Allen Jr. My personal page is on Facebook. Those are only two social media platforms I have other than threads. Phil Allen, Jr. PhD on Instagram and Threads, Phil Allen Jr. On Facebook, Phil Allen jr.com, and those are the ways to reach me.Speaker 1 (41:04):How can folks get ahold of the writing you've already done in your research and read more about what we've been talking about? How can they get ahold of what you've already done?Speaker 2 (41:15):So my first two books, open Wounds and the Prophetic Lens, you can get 'em on Amazon, would love it if you could purchase a copy and after you've read, even if you read some of it and you felt led to leave a review, that helps. I'm currently revising my dissertation so that it's more accessible, so I'm changing, you get it, the academic language, that's not my true voice. So I'm trying to revise that so I can speak and sound more like me, which is more of a poetic voice. So I want to write in that sweet spot where it's still respected and used in academic spaces, but it's more accessible to people beyond academia who are interested in the subject matter. So that hopefully, I've been shopping it to publishers and I'm still shopping. So hopefully, if not next fall, hopefully by early 2026, that book can be published.Speaker 3 (42:21):Okay.Speaker 2 (42:24):The dissertation, you can go to ProQuest and you can type in my name Phil Allen Jr. You can type in the plantation complex.Speaker 3 (42:35):Okay.Speaker 2 (42:36):No, not the Plantation Complex America. The PlantationSpeaker 1 (42:41):America, the Plantation.Speaker 2 (42:43):That's the title. And it's on proquest.com. That's where dissertations are published. So right now, it may cost something to read it, to get ahold of it, but you can look for it there until we revise and rewrite and publish the book.Speaker 1 (43:01):I'm really looking forward to, I haven't read your dissertation, but I want to, and I'm really looking forward to reading that book that's coming out.Speaker 2 (43:09):Thank you. Yes. And my YouTube channel, I don't really talk much. You can just type in my name, Phil Allen, Jr. There's quite a few spoken word videos, some old sermons I on there as well.Speaker 1 (43:25):Okay. Thank you, Phil.Speaker 2 (43:29):Lemme stop. Thank you.Speaker 1 (43:32):Thank you for joining us today, and I'm just honored to be in conversation with folks that are on this journey. We are not alone. If you need other kinds of resources, please don't hesitate to look up in our notes, some of the resources we listed in previous episodes, and also take good care of your bodies. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Tom and Joey are live in studio and are joined by Dave Johnson of Kitsap marina to talk about Halibut and Trout on Kitsap Lake, they give this week’s edition of the Northwest Outdoor Report, then they are joined by Jason Noorlander of Outlandercharters.com in the Weldcraft Wheelhouse to talk crabs and squid, then they end the show with Three River Marine Really? Where?

  Contributors are listed here: Danielle S. Castillejo (Rueb), Cyon Edgerton, Rachael Reese, Chasity Malatesta, Debby Haase, Kim Frasier, Briana Cardenas, Holly Christy, Clare Menard, Marjorie Long, Cristi McCorkle, Terri Schumaker, Diana Frazier, Eliza Cortes Bast, Tracy Johnson, Sarah Van Gelder, Marwan, and more Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. You'll notice there's going to be some updated changes and different voices on the podcast this season. It's season five. It's October 1st, 2024. I haven't recorded a podcast since June of 2023, and at that time, if you've been following along in my town in Kitsap County, we were working through what would prove to be an extensive and prove to be an extensive fight for justice in our school district. And at this time, we have made some very significant shifts. I want to get into this episode to kind of catch you up on where I'm at, where the podcast is at, and hopefully as you listen to myself and some different voices on these upcoming podcasts, you understand that we have this fundamental common theme amongst us, which is our humanity. And when we drop down into that humanity, because our work, our lives, our families, there's all these poles and all these different ways for us to separate ourselves from our humanness and be busy or accomplish this or accomplish that.(00:01:52):And I know because I'm in there too, we actually separate ourselves from our neighbor. And so I'm hoping as we engage tough topics of politics and we get into the sticky points of it, that there's a sense that, yeah, I don't agree with that person or I agree with that person, but there is a sense that there is shared humanity. And so as we talk about these different subjects, I wanted to emphasize that first, an article was released in the fall last year saying in September of 2023 saying that there was, the school district's investigation had concluded and they had deemed that there was no racism in the North Kitsap School district. As you can imagine, a report like that on the front page of the paper, after all we'd been through after sitting through numerous hours of meetings listening to families and their experiences was disheartening.(00:02:45):We came to find out that some of the families felt or experienced what they deemed to be threatening tones from the investigators or understood that they could possibly be under penalty of perjury depending on what they answered. And I'm not saying that this was always the case, but the threat was on the table. And when you're dealing with working with majority world peoples who are marginalized in the United States, that threat can be very real. And the impact of it is very great. So I began to understand that this investigation wasn't actually looking for the truth and how to solve the problem. It was actually looking for a way of complete and utter defense against what these families had reported their students had experienced. It's a very different thing. And I think there were rumors like were these families going to sue the district, bring a lawsuit to the district?(00:03:41):And we've seen in neighboring school districts, just in recent times, lawsuits have been filed for much less. I mean, we had 90 original complaints. We have more people that had come forward as time had moved on. And yet there was never a move to actually file a lawsuit. We didn't file a lawsuit. We continued to move forward with our lives and think about our students. I think at some point in last fall of 2023, there was just a sense of deep despair like we put in years of effort. And the result was this report that basically attempted to delegitimize all the stories of all these families. It was horrible and heartbreaking and followed the fall. And in the late winter there was going to be a vote for this school bond. And as the yes for the bond campaign rolled out, led by a committee of yes folks, which included some Paul's Bowl rotary members and then the superintendent, it became clear to different community members that there were a lot of questions still to be asked, a lot of information we wanted to have and a lot of things that just felt like they were missing.(00:04:57):I'm not saying they were all missing, but there were pieces and details that appeared to be missing. And when we asked the questions similar to what happened with the complaints, we didn't get answers. The answers were couched in long paragraphs or explanations, and the architects seemed like they didn't have access to the buildings. Again, we didn't know all the details of what happened. And this is just a general recap. You can look at the ensuing political drama online. If you Google superintendent signs and polls Bowl, Washington, P-O-U-L-S-B-O Washington, you will find articles on NBC to Fox News to video clips, all of the above. There were signs all over our county, as I'm sure in your different counties or if you live in Kitsap, you've seen them political signs, vote yes on the bond, vote no on the bond, et cetera. And it appeared that signs were going missing.(00:06:02):And in one case, the signs were going missing often in one particular location and a pair of folks who are not married who became allied because they were both against the bond and had been putting up no on bond signs, decided to put up a wildlife cam and we're able to capture a person destroying the signs on video. And again, Google sbo, Google signs, Google Superintendent look for February 20, 24 articles and you'll see the ensuing reports of what happened. This became a chance for us actually to revisit our story because there's a theme of dishonesty from the top leadership. There was a theme of hiding. There's a theme of not giving all the information a theme of there's any extent we can go to that bumps up against the law. By the way, I think it's against the law to destroy political signs. So there's just this theme that you could break the law and get away with it.(00:07:08):We've seen in the top politics of our country down to the low level politics of our country. And what was our community going to do with all of this? We rallied together. For the first time in many years, there were literally hundreds of people on a zoom call for a school board meeting. News agencies showed up again, and sadly, our district was in the news for something else negative related to the top leadership. And it was very sad. The process. The superintendent was put on leave and resigned in June, but stopped working essentially closely with the school board. I think it was in March or April of 2024. I just remember that when the harm stops, when someone harmful is told by law enforcement or the law or someone else in a higher power to stop harming it, it's a relief. But also that's the time when all of the residual trauma sets in the trauma that you've been going through to be in proximity to someone in leadership and you're literally powerless to address it.(00:08:19):And I guess I bring this up to say that as we think about politics nationally, locally, whether it's a school board member or a president, I remember feeling challenged When I live in a small town, paulville was a small town. It is not like Seattle size. It's like got rural folks. There's folks that commute into the city of Seattle. We're, we're a mix of all different kinds of socioeconomic backgrounds. Our school district is now 38% Spanish speaking this year. There is a genuine mix. So when you're out and about in this small container, Kitsap's also very small too. It's rural, it's small. We're kind of contained on our own peninsula. When you're in this environment, the chances that you're going to see someone that you're know are really high, it's not like if you hate someone about, you're not going to run into Donald Trump here.(00:09:11):You're not going to run in here, run into Kamala Harris here. It's not like you're running into those folks, but you might run into your representative. You might run into the school board member from this district or another district. And how are you going to see that person that actually you not only disagree with, but you felt has been unjust to you? Costs a lot. I mean, money's one thing, but time, effort, family, reputation, allies, there is so much time involved and the way forward. You think it's clear when you're fighting on behalf of kids, you're advocating on behalf of kids. That feels really good. But the process to work through that advocacy often doesn't feel that great. You have to become allies with people you don't agree with. And so I think that just brings me back to where do we find our common humanity?(00:10:06):Where do we find space to occupy a same piece of land or a same meeting or a similar, we have similar causes, but maybe there's deep hurt between us and maybe that hurt is to the point where we're not going to ever talk to that person again, and how do we still see them as human? How do we still see them as valuable in this world? How do we still gain compassion? Those are things I ask myself and I don't have the answers. So I've included a number of folks asking a similar questions about humanness, about politics, about where they locate themselves in their various positions, their race, ethnicity, et cetera, and how do they come at this? And I hope you enjoy the following conversations because I conversations or talks from these people, commentary from these people as we hear all different perspectives. Now you may hear someone and be like, I can get down with that. I agree with that. And then there's another person you might be like, no way, no effing way. And so I encourage you to listen, stay curious with yourself and have talks with your family about how you're going to engage this political season.Speaker 2 (00:11:26):Danielle asked me how I see being human in the age of politics, and I'm struggling answering this because A, I am not a politician or have really any experience as a politician. I have experience as a community based organizer. So I am speaking on this on the outside of things. And then also I'm a white woman able bo, heterosexual woman. And the politics and the systems of power were built for me as a white person to thrive. And so I just want to locate myself in that because my view is of a privileged view. White folks can step in and out of politics without it really harming us. And that's a problem, obviously, and it distorts our view of politics.(00:12:55):But with this question, I have become more and more angry and upset with politics, policies, systems of power, the more that I unlearn and learn about my internal white supremacy culture and ways of being. And as the genocide in Palestine and other countries continue, I don't think the political structures are here for us. They're not people centered, they're not community centered. I think all politics are really about power. And so as an outsider, as not a politician and as a white woman, so those are flawed views. I'm coming from a flawed view. I see how politics change people or they make bad people even worse. I know local white folks that are in it for power and just continue on searching for more and more power. And I've witnessed community organizers join politics to really try to change the systems. But I don't think politics or the system was made to help humans. I don't think the system is for humans. And it hurts people, it divides people. I don't really know how to answer this question because I don't think politics and humanists can actually go together, not the way that they're set up now.Speaker 3 (00:15:09):These questions are so beautiful and just so right on time for this time, we're in right before an election where there's so much stress. My name is Sara Van Gelder and I am a friend of Danielle's and a resident of Kitsap County for many years have I was one of the founders of YES magazine. I also founded a group called People's Hub, which teaches community folks how to do local organizing, actually peer to peer teaching. I didn't do the teaching, but connected people together to teach each other and been associated as a ally of the Suquamish tribe at various times in my life, but I did not ever speak for them.(00:15:54):So my own humanity in the context of this political moment, I like to stay in a place of fierce love and do when I can. I can't say I'm always there. I'm often triggered. I often go into a place of feeling really fearful and anxious about what's going on in the world and more particularly the polarization and the rise of which what I don't like to call, but I think is actually a form of fascism. And when I talk about fierce, it means being willing to say the truth as I see it, but also love, which is that that is the motivator. I don't like seeing people get hurt and I'm willing to stand up and be one of the people to say what I see, but not in a way that is intended to degrade anybody. I am a mother, I'm a grandmother, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister. And being connected to people through love and that sense of willingness to protect one another, that's at the core. So even if I disagree with you, I'm not going to wish you harm.Speaker 1 (00:17:12):Wow. Wow. Even if I disagree with you, I'm not going to wish you harm. And I think what I've heard just particularly lately around the talk of immigration, let's say for an example, is the talk about immigration in the context of a particular city. For instance, they've used Springfield, Ohio over and over. It's come up many times and the demonization, the dehumanization of those immigrants, the miscategorizing of their status, it seems like some of this can get point hyper-focused on one particular example to make a political point or to drive fear home across different context, different communities. So when you think about that, do you wish those people harm that are making those accusations? How do you engage a tough subject like that?Speaker 3 (00:18:15):Yeah, it's a really hard one, and I could tell you what I aspire to do and what I actually do a lot of times is avoid people who have that level of disagreement with, because I'm not sure I have enough in common to even have a good conversation. So I don't feel like I'm as good at this as I'd like to be. But what I try to do is to first off, to recognize that when we're in the fight or flight sort of reptilian brain, when we're super triggered, we have the least capacity to do good work of any kind. So I try to get out of that mindset, and in part I do that by trying to listen, by trying to be an active listener and try to listen not just for the positions. The positions are ones that will likely trigger me, but to listen for what's beneath the positions, what is somebody yearning for?(00:19:10):What is it that they're really longing for beneath those positions that I find so harmful and so triggering. So in many cases, I think what people are looking for in this immigration debate is a sense of belonging. They want to believe that their community is a place where they belong and somehow believe that having other people who are from different cultures move in reduces the chances that they'll be able to belong. So what would it mean if they could feel like they belonged along with the Haitians in their community that it didn't have to be an either or is there a way to have that kind of conversation that what if we all belong(00:19:54):In that respect? The thing that I am sometimes most tempted to do, which is to cancel someone, if you will, that actually feeds into that dynamic of not belonging because I'm telling that person also, you don't belong in my life. You don't belong in my community. So it's not easy to do, but I do feel like we have a better chance of doing that locally than we have doing it nationally because locally we do have so many things we have in common. We all want to drink clean water, we want clean air. We want places our kids can go to school where they will belong and they will feel good. So if we can switch the conversation over to those deeper questions, and I think one thing I've learned from hanging out with indigenous folks is the way in which they think about the seven generations and how much more expansive of you that can give to you when you think that way.(00:20:54):Because instead of thinking about again, that immediate threat, that immediate personal sense of anxiety, you start thinking, well, what's going to work for my kids and my grandkids? I don't want them to be experiencing this. Well, that means something about having to learn how to get along with other people, and we want our kids to get along with each other. We want them to have friends and family, and when they marry into a different culture, we want to feel good about our in-laws. I mean, we want our neighborhood to be a place where our kids can run around and play outside. I mean, there's so many things that once you start expanding the scope to other generations, it makes it so clear that we don't want that kind of society that's full of hate and anxiety.Speaker 1 (00:21:44):Wow, seven generations. It is true. I do a lot of reading and I think about res, are you familiar with Resa and my grandmother's hands? And he talks about that the shifts we want to make in society, the shifts towards being more in our actual physical bodies and present with one another and the reps that it takes, the way we're disrupting it now to make a dent in the 400 plus year history of slavery and the act of embodying ourselves from the harm that has been done is going to take five to seven generations. It's not that he's not for change now. He absolutely is. And just having that long term, almost like marathon view perspective on what change has either for ourselves that can give ourselves grace and that we can also give others in our proximity grace, while also not engaging in active harm. I think there's an important part there. Does that make sense?Speaker 3 (00:22:51):Oh, it makes so much sense. And it's like that long-term view doesn't suggest we can put off working. It only even happens in the long term if we start today, we take the first steps today. So yes, absolutely makes sense. I'm not sure I'm patient enough to wait for all those generations, but I want to be keeping them in my mind and heart when I act. How is this going to contribute to their possibilities? So part of that is by thinking about these questions of belonging, but it's also questions of exclusion more structurally. I think the fact that our society has such deep exclusion economically of so many people, there's so many people across the board who feel so precarious in their lives. I think that sets us up for that kind of scapegoating because ideally what we'd be saying is, if you can't afford to go to college, if you can't afford a medical bill, if you can't afford a place to rent, there's a problem with our economy.(00:23:56):Let's look at that problem with our economy and do something about it. And I believe people have gotten so disempowered. So feeling that that's beyond them to do that. Then the next thing that the demagogues will do is say, well, let's look for a scapegoat then. Let's look for a scapegoat of somebody who's less powerful than you and let's blame them because that'll give you a temporary sense of having power. And that's how, I mean it's not unique to our situation. It's how fascism so often unfolds and how historically groups have been scapegoated. And I think we need to turn our attention back to what is the real cause of our anxiety. And I think the real cause of our anxiety is economic and political disfranchisement. Once we can actually tackle those topics, we can see how much more we can do when we work together across all isms and make things happen for a world in which everyone has a place.Speaker 1 (00:24:55):So then if you know people in your sphere, let's say, and don't name them here, that border on the narrative that says, if you disenfranchise someone less powerful than you, that will bring you some relief. If you have people like that in your life, Sarah, how do you approach them? How do you engage with them if you're willing to share any personal experience?Speaker 3 (00:25:28):Yeah, so my biggest personal experience with that was working as an activist alongside the Suquamish tribe when a lot of their immediate neighbors were trying to keep them from building housing, keep them from building relationships with other governments and actually took them to court trying to actually end their sovereign right to be a tribe. So that was my most direct involvement and that was 20 years ago. So it seems like ancient history, but I learned a lot from that, including from working with tribal elders who provided a lot of leadership for us and how we should work. And one of the things that I've learned from that and also from being a Quaker, is that the notion of how you talk to people in a nonviolent way, and a lot of that starts with using I statements. So when people in my neighborhood would say really disparaging things about the tribe, I would respond with, I feel this. I believe the tribe has sovereign rights. I believe they have always been here and have the right to govern themselves and build homes for their members. And it's harder, it's not as triggering when somebody says, I instead of starts with a word(00:26:58):When somebody says, you immediately have this responsive defensiveness because it's unclear what's going to come next and whether you're going to have to defend yourself when you say I, you're standing in your own power and your own belief system and you're offering that to someone else with the hope that they might empathize and perhaps even perhaps be convinced by part of what you have to say. But in the meantime, you haven't triggered a worsening of relationships. And one of the things I really didn't want to do was create anything that would further the violence, verbal most cases, violence against the tribe, sort of getting people even further triggered. So it was just really important to always be looking for ways to be very clear and uncompromising on really important values, but be willing to compromise on ones that were not important. So for example, when we were working on getting the land return to the tribe that had been a state park, we asked people what's important to you about how this park functions in the future? Because the tribe can take that into account they, but the idea that it is their land, the home of chief Seattles, that was not something we could compromise on.Speaker 1 (00:28:17):I love that using I statements intentionally checking in with yourself so you're not engaging in behaviors that trigger another person further into more defensive mode. Sarah, what are some resources or recommendations you could leave with me or us? When you think about engaging people and staying very present, it's a very human stance to say, I think I believe this versus an accusatory tone like you are this, you are that.Speaker 3 (00:28:50):I think the nonviolent communication that Marshall Rosenberg developed is very powerful. He has a very specific technique for having those kinds of conversations that are very focused on that notion about the I statement and also reflecting back what you hear from other people, but then being willing to use statements about what I need because saying that puts me in a position of being vulnerable, right? Saying I actually need something from you. You obviously have the choice of whether you're going to give it to me or not, but I need to be in a place where I can feel safe when we have these conversations. I need to feel like I live in a community where people are so then the other person has that choice, but you're letting them know and you're again standing in your own power as somebody who's self-aware enough, it also invites them to be self-aware of what they need.Speaker 1 (00:29:46):I love that. Yeah, keep going.Speaker 3 (00:29:50):I think there are other resources out there. I'm just not calling 'em to mind right now, but I think nonviolent communications is a really good one.Speaker 1 (00:29:58):And locally, since you talked locally, what are maybe one or two things locally that you regularly engage in to kind of keep up your awareness to keep yourself in a compassionate mode? How do you do that for youSpeaker 3 (00:30:16):Being out in nature? Okay,Speaker 1 (00:30:19):Tell me about that.Speaker 3 (00:30:22):Oh, in Japan, they call it forest bathing, but it's just a fancy term for being in some places it's really natural. There's beautiful walks. We're very fortunate here in the northwest that there are so many beautiful places we can walk. And when you're surrounded by preferably really intact ecosystems where you can feel the interactions going on among the critters and the plants and just let that wash over you because part of that as well, it kind of helps take some of the pressure off. It sort of releases some of us being kind of entangled in our own ego and lets us just have greater awareness that we're actually entangled in this much larger universe. It's much, much older and we'll go on way after we're gone and extends to so many different ways of being from a bird to a tree, to a plate of grass, and we're all related.Speaker 4 (00:31:33):Hey, this is Kim. So just a brief background. I am a 41-year-old biracial woman. I am a mom, a nurse, a child of an immigrant, and I identify as a Christian American. Thanks Danielle for asking me to chime in. I just wanted to touch base on this current political climate. I would say as a liberal woman, I really enjoy diversity and hearing and seeing different perspectives and engaging in meaningful conversation. Unfortunately, I feel like right now we are so polarized as a country and it's not like the air quote, good old days where you could vote for a politician that you felt like really represented your ideals and kind of financially what you value, policies, et cetera. Now I feel like it has become really a competition and an election of human rights, and I think for me, that's kind of where I draw my own personal boundary.(00:32:40):I think it's important to share different perspectives, and I think I do have a unique perspective and I enjoy hearing others' perspectives as well, but for me, I do draw the line at human rights. So I have learned over the years to just not engage when it comes to issues of individuals being able to choose what to do with their body, women in particular, it's terrifying to me as a nurse and a woman and a mother of a daughter who could potentially be in a situation at some point and not be allowed to make choices about her own body with a doctor. Also as the child of an immigrant, I was raised by a white mother, Irish German Catholic, and my father is an immigrant that has been here since 19 76, 77. He is from Trinidad and Tobago. He's actually served in the military and I have a hard time with vilifying people of color trying to come to this country and make a better life for themselves and for their future and their future generations, which is exactly what my dad was doing. So to me, it's a no-brainer, right? Not to tell anybody what to do or how to vote, but I think that it's really hard right now to hold space for individuals who may be attacking my rights as a woman, my ability as a nurse to be able to care for patients and really what this country was supposedly built on, which is being a melting pot and allowing any and everyone here to be able to pursue the American dream and make a life for themselves and their loved ones.Speaker 5 (00:34:34):As soon as the topic turns to politics, I feel myself cringe, and then I want to internally retreat a bit. Looking back over the past eight plus years, I realize I have been feeling like this for a long time. My body holds memories of heated, uncomfortable confrontive distancing and sometimes horrifying conversations with friends and at times, even with family, I'm tired as most people tired from the collective traumas. We have all lived through political, racial, and pandemic related. Eight years ago, I think I worked to try and remain objective. I told myself that my job was just to hear the other person with curiosity, but doing that was not enough to help me stay well in the midst of what I truly could not then and cannot still control. I've come to realize that I have to stay connected to my own feelings, to my own limitations.(00:35:37):I have to make space to feel my disappointment, my disgust, my fear, my sadness, my powerlessness, my ache, even my longing still when it comes to the realm of politics, I have to make room for my own humanity and then I have to be willing to share that, not simply be a listening ear for others. What's been most difficult for me as politics has driven division and disconnection is the loss of healthy dialogue and conversation. It feels to me like relational loss is there where it doesn't seem like it always has to be. I am passionate about the table, about creating and cultivating space at a table for all the voices and for all of the stories to belong. I still believe in this, and when I'm connected to my own humanity, it makes me far more open to the humanity of another, knowing my own stories that are being stirred up and activated by injustice, by what I perceive to be irresponsible politicians and policies that don't make sense to me and at times scare me when I'm in the presence of those who hold very different political views from me.(00:37:02):I have to actively choose to not just tolerate listening to them, but instead to try and listen for something more. I try to listen for the fear that often fuels their positions. The fear is always storied and the stories offer taste of their humanity and oftentimes their experience of suffering, which always offers the opportunity for empathy. I can't do it all the time. Some situations don't afford the time for curiosity and sharing. When that happens, I need space afterwards, space to release what I don't need or want to hold that I heard space to feel my own humanity again, and then space to choose to remember the humanity of the other person, and that is all an active practice. I think that othering people into political camps and categories is easily available and every time it happens, we lose more and more of our collective humanity and we feed the machine of hate that profits from our conversational and emotional laziness.Speaker 6 (00:38:11):I can't say it's always easy, that's for sure. What I try to do is see another person, whether it's around the political views or other things that I may not agree with somebody about or I might even actually see them as a quote enemy, is for one thing, I drop into my heart and get out of my head about ideas, views, and just try to be present in my heart as much as possible with as little judgment as possible and recognize the essence of the other person, the essence that's inside all the beliefs and the views, and recognizing also that we all have some sort of wounding from our lives, maybe our lineages, our generations, maybe even past lives and or trauma, and that that can obscure the essence of who we are, and I try to really remember that essence in another person.(00:39:34):And in relation, how do you see your own humanity? The other question you ask, how do you see your own humanity in the context of political dialogue? I have to say that's not really a question I thought about. I thought about how to see the humanity in others, so I really appreciate this question. I think if I start othering the other, if I get into too much judgment, I feel like I lose my own sense of humanity or at least the type of human I hope and wish to be. What helps me to I guess, discern when I'm in my own humanity, when I'm in the best of places, I guess I don't know how else to word that is I tune into my values. What do I value most and am I living by those values in the way that I want to be human In this world, for example, for me, integrity is super important as well as respect and compassion.(00:40:44):I'm not saying I'm always in this place, but these values that I aspire to live by help bring me into my own humanity and almost like check, checking in, tuning in checkpoints in a way, when I speak about compassion, sometimes people, all of what I'm saying, I want to, even though I'm maybe trying to see the essence of someone, I do try to discern that if there's being harm done, I'm not okaying any harm at all. And when I try to live by compassion, I feel like that's when I can really see the humanity in others and compassion for myself. I view compassion as a very active verb, a little bit different than empathy. Just that compassion is seeing the suffering, but wanting to do something about it and doing something for me. Compassion includes action, and sometimes that action is helping to disrupt or interrupt harm that's happening, and that's how I can show up in my humanity for others is the best I can do is acting as well as being that balance both, andSpeaker 7 (00:42:23):I'm Diana, she her and I didn't use to see myself in politics the way that I do now. It took decades for me to really start to get a grasp about who I actually am and how the ways I view politics, the ways I vote, who I support, how it actually affects me, and I spent a lot of years voting for things that hurt me without even realizing I was doing that because I was following the messaging and believing it. Ultimately that being a good fill in the blanks meant voting for fill in the blanks or being a good fill in the blanks meant donating to or supporting or whatever, fill in the blanks. And I hurt myself by doing that because I wasn't listening to my own knowing or my own intuition or looking in the mirror at who am I? What kind of world do I want to live in? I didn't ask myself those questions. I did what I thought I was supposed to do to fall in line, and there were people in my life during that who spoke truth, and it was true because it was individual to them. It was, here's what I know about me and here's what this policy means for me. And I didn't get it. I certainly didn't get it.(00:44:09):I judged it inside my own head, and yet those people who spoke their own individual truth are the people who were able to shed light through the cracks in my facade. And years later, I remember some of the things that people said or that they posted or whatever because those were the light that I saw through the cracks and it was so memorable, even though at the time I might have been irritated by it, it was memorable because I loved and respected these people and so their words didn't matter to me, even though at the time I very much disagreed and I hope that I will be allowed to be the light in some people's cracks because I know for a fact there's so many people like me who haven't actually looked at who they are, what they want, what kind of world do they want to live in if they separate themselves from the ideology of where they work or where they go to church or their family of origin or what their spouse is telling them, no honey, who are you? What do you want? And when people can be brave enough to do that, its everything up.Speaker 8 (00:45:46):My name is Marwan Cameron, and I was asked to answer a couple questions here, and the first question was, how do you see your own humanity in the context of political dialogue? And I had to think about this question. Our humanity is front and center when we talk about politics primarily because the issues that affect us, meaning the black community are often sidelined or ignored. I'll share some examples of that. Democrats and Republicans both speak about healthcare, the economy crime, but when they have centered those conversations around the realities they face, when do you actually see that take reparations. For example, we hear a lot about tax cuts or healthcare reform, but nothing about reparations for chattel slavery, for foundational black Americans which are owed to black people for centuries of exploitation. You can even look at our prison system where men are going to prison without HIV and very low percentages and then coming out several times higher when they are released from jail and prison, and I'll get into some of those stats. Also.(00:47:15):When we look at black men that are falsely accused of sexual assault, unfortunately we go back to Emmett Till and we never really talk about the contemporary men. I have a list of a hundred black men that have been falsely accused in the last five years alone. Albert Owens 2023, Christian Cooper, 2020, Joshua Wood, Maurice Hastings, Jonathan Irons, 2000, Anthony Broadwater, 2021, Mark Allen, 2022, Franklin, west 2020, Michael Robertson, Shaw, Taylor, Dion, Pearson 2021, Stanley Race 2019 Rashan Weaver 2020. Henry Lee McCollum, 2020. David Johnson, Jamel Jackson, Charles Franklin, Kevin Richardson, Raymond Santana, Corey Wise, you, Celine, Aron McCray, Brian Banks, which is a pretty famous name, Wilbert Jones. That's just 20 names in the last five years of a list of a hundred that I have that have been falsely accused of sexual assault, these aren't things that we talk about. Question two, how do you make space for folks in your proximity who did not share your political views as a heterosexual black male in this country, you really have no choice but to make space for others' Political views as in question number one, we are really only allowed to speak about injustices or political needs in the framework of the black community as a whole.(00:49:25):Matter what side you find yourself on, whether you're a Republican, we're oftentimes they straight up say, we're not acknowledging what your needs are. We're not going to do anything about your needs. You can come over here and vote with us if you want. As Trump said, what have you got to lose? What have Democrats done for you? Or you can look at the democratic side where in the last three elections, it's been existential against Donald Trump. And when Donald Trump won and then lost and is running again, we still haven't seen things like the repeal of qualified immunity, things like atoning for the most heinous crimes that the United States has committed in chattel slavery against black men. I've made space. We have made space as black men in regards to those who do not share our political views. Black men have fought in every war for the United States of America. We have stood up, stood behind, been sacrificed for the good of almost every cause, and we're told not yet. It's not the right time. We too need, have needs, and it becomes a zero sum game.Speaker 9 (00:51:19):Growing up, we had Sunday dinners at my grandparents. Conversation was always lively with my family, talking loudly, fast, and often right over each other. We talked about everything, what was happening around us, our community, what was in the paper and on the news that evening. We didn't always agree. In fact, I think my grandparents debated opposite sides. Just for fun, I fondly remember my grandmother saying, your grandpa and I are canceling each other's votes at the polls. They would both smile and sometimes laugh. Considering my upbringing, I was surprised to hear my instructor at cosmetology school lay down the law. Politics and religion were never to be discussed, not in school, and certainly not if we wanted to be successful professionally. I learned to smile and nod. I strive to find common ground with the opinion of guests. I was raised not to look for any offense with ideas that contrasted my own.(00:52:16):It takes both a left and a right wing to make the eagle fly and what a boring world this would be in if we all agreed. But then Trump happened up until he achieved power. Generally speaking, whether the law or policy was written by conservatives, liberals, moderates, there was a basis of bettering the American way of life. To be clear, this wasn't always the advancement of protection we agreed with, but we could see the logic of it. For the most part, Trump's leadership consists of a hatred for people who are not like him. Early on in his campaign, he told Americans to police their neighbors if they were of a specific religion he has built upon dehumanization and vilification every day sense. My mother lived in Germany for a few years and a town not far from Dau. It was the early 1960s and not yet recovered from World War ii.(00:53:21):This quaint little town overlooks the Bavarian Alps with architects right out of a storybook and a stunning view of Munich. It was evidence that the residents of this charming quiet village were aware that 800,000 people came in and no one left. History books paint the picture that everyone was scared of speaking up for fear they would be next. But with critical thinking, we know many of those approved. They've been listening to the nonsense of their leaders, their beliefs that Jews, the disabled homosexuals, immigrants were a burden on the healthcare system, education system, taking their German jobs, businesses, and homes. They were demonized so strongly, so powerfully. They were no longer human, no longer their neighbors, doctors, teachers, bakers seamstresses their talents, their skills and their very humanity no longer existed. We know this to be true, but what we don't talk about is the slope that good people slid down that enabled this to take place in the coffee shops, birthday parties, sitting with friends, playing cards, Sunday family dinners, these words came up.(00:54:43):Hitler's rhetoric spread and thoughtful kind people did not correct their friends, family, guests and clients. There were Nazis and sympathizers, but there were good people that saw through Hitler's dumpster fire of lies. These are the people I wonder if they ever slept well again. Could they ever look at themselves with honor and integrity? Trump proudly uses this method. He has people willing to do his bidding. He has sympathizers, but what he doesn't have is my silence, my obedience. My voice is the born power. I have to stand strong and correct the lies he tells and the people in my circle repeat. I will lose clients and friends taking this action, and that's a price I'm willing to pay, but I'm not willing to live out the rest of my days knowing that I didn't do everything in my power to stop in.Speaker 10 (00:55:49):How do you make space for folks in your proximity who don't share your political views? I am lucky that I live next to my parents and that my mother-in-law lives in a small home on our property. For years, there was a constant strife between my parents, myself, husband, and my mother-in-law due to political and religious beliefs, uncomfortable dinners, having to watch what you say, an aura of judgment that would seem to permeate family gatherings. They were quite the norm. And each time that they would leave, I would feel a sense of relief. Sometimes someone would decide not to come or just tell us that they needed a break. This would create less tension, but I worry that someone would feel left out or that they would feel judged if they weren't present. And actually that would happen more often or not, especially in my time of anger before and during Covid.(00:56:40):As mentioned before, when I decided that I needed to focus on my own sense of happiness and live up to my values and beliefs, I decided that my home would become a politics, religion free zone. I wanted my home to be a safe for everyone. And this was a tough transition. And what was most difficult was creating boundaries for our parents, having the hard conversations about why we're asking people to withhold their opinions on politics and religion and to focus on grandkids sports and family celebrations, et cetera. For the first few months, I was constantly reminding everyone of the rule, but eventually we all seemed to settle in and even catch ourselves when we deviated from how sex expectations, dinners and events became more pleasant. And when our guests would leave, I didn't have to decompress or worry about how to fix an issue or soothe someone's feelings.(00:57:27):This one simple step has been a game changer, and it's not always perfect, and sometimes people will slip up, but instead of taking on the issue, we will move the conversation to another topic. Some would say that we need to talk about the issues and debate their merits so that we can grow and come together. But no, after finding my purpose, I don't believe that being right is more important than someone else's feelings. I want everyone who sits at my table and breaks spread with me to feel loved and valued. It's not perfect because we're human, but we're trying one dinner at a timeSpeaker 11 (00:58:03):To how do I hold my own humanity? In the context of political dialogue, one of the first things that comes to mind for me is, at least in political conversations, what defines my humanity? When I think about politics, much of our politics is really about power and privilege, of which I happen to have both. And so when I'm thinking about politics, I'm thinking about my social location as a able-bodied, middle class, heterosexual Christian White woman, I carry privilege in almost every aspect of that identity, at least here in the United States. And so when I'm thinking about humanity and political dialogue, our political system has historically always been and continues to be set up to serve people with my type of humanity very well. The thing that I'm constantly trying to keep in my mind is what about the humanity of my brothers and sisters experiencing oppression, marginalization when it comes to my voice and my vote in political situations, I have over the years had to learn to think less about how can I use my vote and my voice to engage in politics in a way that benefits me because I'm already benefiting from our system.(00:59:42):Our system is set up to benefit people like me who carry great levels of social privilege. What I really want to know as I'm trying to use my voice and my vote wisely now, is how do I leverage both of those things, my voice, my vote, as well as my power and privilege to engage in political dialogue in ways that fix broken systems. So I am oftentimes not actually voting or advocating for the things that would benefit me the most or necessarily align perfectly with my theological or political ideals. I'm looking at where are the most broken places in our system? Where is our government currently oppressing individuals the most? And how can my vote and my voice be used to leverage our politics in such a way that those broken systems begin to get fixed and healed over time so that those whose humanity looks different than mine are receiving the same amount of privilege of assistance of power that they should be.(01:00:57):And when it comes to dealing with those that I'm in proximity with who have very different political ideologies than myself, of which I will say in my current context, there are quite a few. I am constantly having to remind myself to focus on core values, values over stances that our conversations and our engagement with one another centers not so much around opinions about specific political stances or issues as much as the core values that we share. If my core value is for equality and equity, if my core value is that we're caring for the poor and the marginalized, then regardless of what stances I might have on certain issues, my voice and my vote represents those core values. And I've found that even when certain stances might be different, when we dig into the core values that are at the root of our decision-making, there's oftentimes a lot more common ground than I ever expect there to be.Speaker 12 (01:02:06):This recording is for the fabulous Danielle Castillo. I think what I am seeing right now as I think about how to welcome people's humanity and politics are a few key things that are both shocking and I would say disappointing in a day and age where we seem to want to tolerate people not being locked into binary spaces, we have relegated differences and opinion and viewpoints into a bipartisan politic. And what that does is that means that there are people who are in and who are out. And we've had to embrace things that we both love and hate if we ascribe to any one of those bipartisan objectives. And so we've had to in some ways, in our own humanity, violate pieces of ourselves to say, well, I align this part one way, but even though I categorically reject their views on this another way. And then regardless of whatever spectrum you're on inside of that political continuum, and it's hard because at that point, if we say in a lot of other spaces that there's space for nuance and there's space for gray, then why here do we land in those spaces?(01:03:16):And so that would be the first that it is an either or, and we seem to be comfortable, most comfortable that way. And then to demonize and villainize somebody who's in the either or space, instead of allowing for the gray, you're either all for me or all against me, and you can't live somewhere in the middle. The second thing that would be shocking and disappointing for me is the way that we've been able to start arranging the things that we can tolerate. And so I can say, well, I love this candidate because I love these three things and I agree with them and I hate these four things, but they're not that bad. And you love this candidate, you love the other candidate for these three things, but you hate them for those four things. And the fact that you don't hate 'em enough over those four things means that you're a terrible person.(01:04:02):And I find that just so interesting and so sad that we've been able to say, well, the four things I can stomach that I don't like are somehow more or less worse than the four things you feel like you could tolerate or not tolerate. And so my list of sins or offenses that are easily navigable, somehow I get to become the moral compass over what should be enough or not enough to disqualify somebody for public service. I think at the end of the day, what makes us hard is that we see people in the middle as somehow exhibiting some sort of cowardice. And I think we're pushing people to violate their own humanity and say, as my experience changes and as the neighborhood changes and the people around me change, and my own philosophy changes that I can't stand in a faithful middle and say, well, I agree with some of this, but I don't agree with some of that.(01:04:54):And we've called those people cowards instead of principled moderates, and we've shamed them into saying, well, you have to choose something. And I think that is so unkind. And I think really at the end of the day, we are asking people to violate their own humanity and their own understanding of who they are and their own sense of who they are as a person by saying that they have to agree one way if they want to be a human or be a woman or be a person of color or be a person of faith. And I think it's both sides. I think every side is complicit. At the end of the day, what is really hard is that I think most people want to vote for the person that is going to lead well, and they want that person to be a good person. They want them to be an upright person.(01:05:37):They want them to be an authentic person, the same person behind closed doors as they are in the public face. And I would say, I don't think that's most people who choose politicking as a vocation, I believe that so much of their job is diplomacy and having to be a lot of faces in a lot of places. And so asking for that kind of authenticity and consistency in a social media world is almost asking the impossible. I don't think it totally is impossible, but I think it's exceptionally hard. Many of the things that we want to ascribe to one individual and how they uphold or represent their own party are carefully crafted narratives by a team of people who are professional politicians and marketers, and to ask them to give you an authentic person, their job is to not give you an authentic person. Their job is to give you an avatar that you feel you can most connect with so you can make the decision they want you to make.(01:06:33):And that is really for me, the reality of what we're up against right now is that we want to say we're voting for ideologies, and in reality we're voting for a carefully crafted narrative that is crafted by people who want you to believe a particular way. And I know that feels kind of negative, and that makes me so sad to even voice that out loud and to vocalize that out loud. But I would say that I hope in some way that we experience real freedom and real understanding of what it means to be a global citizen and to be a citizen of this country, is that we understand that. And the complexity of who I am as a person and how I interact with other people and how they understand their own complexity and their own humanity means that I can believe a lot of things that belong in a lot of different camps.(01:07:19):And that's okay. That's what honestly, being intrinsically American means, but also just to understand our own humanity in the global context is there are things that I will feel one way about and they squarely belong in one camp, but there are other things I believe that belong in another camp. And both of those things can be true for me without somebody demanding that I carry some sort of alliance or allegiance to one person. I think that's so gross and so foul at the end of the day. I think what makes America so interesting and so fascinating, but I also think so beautiful and so compelling and so desiring for people who are coming into our borders, is that there is this understanding that I can stand squarely as an individual person and be able to express myself as who I am as an individual and also belong to a collective that makes space for that.(01:08:14):And that is intrinsically what it means to be America. I'm free to be us, but I'm also free to be me. And so I think politics pushes us into a narrative that is against intrinsically who we say we are, and that really is the basis of freedom. And so that's what I would feel about that. Now, this is an added bonus, and I know you didn't ask for this, Danielle, but I'm going to give it to you anyways because I firmly believe this. I think it is more dehumanizing, and I think it is so incredibly sad that we don't allow for people to be principled moderates. That we are sanctifying the ability to castrate people's ability to be able to stand in the middle. And we vilify them as being weak or vilify them as being cowards because their understanding of what is actually evil is.(01:09:09):It's a broad spectrum. And to say that there is good everywhere, it is true to say there is evil everywhere is true. And how people interface with both of those things is true. And so I hate that we have become okay at using our theology and using our social media platforms and using our politicking as throwing stones for people who say, I want to hold a faithful middle. And that faithful middle means that I can believe a multitude of things and that I stand in the own gray and the nuance of who I am and how I understand my neighbors and what that looks like. And we know that some of those people are standing with compassion and with courage. And to call those people cowards, I think is the most ignorant, I'm trying to find the kindest way to say this, right? So I think it is just absolutely ignorant.(01:10:00):And then we've used quotes out of context and scriptures out of context to tell those people that somehow they're bad and evil people. And it's just not true that they're honestly sometimes the bridge builders and the unifier in places where they are trying to be peacemakers and they're trying to be people of peace. They're trying to be people of belonging and welcome. And so they're holding a faithful middle to say, my heart is going to take enough of a beating where people may misunderstand me, but I'm going to make it big enough and available enough where everybody can come sit under my tent. And I think that's brave work. I think that is courageous work, and I think that is humbling work that we could learn more from instead of castigating really more than anything else. So those are my 2 cents, honestly, more than anything else.(01:10:51):The last 2 cents I could probably give you that I think is so shameful is I am tired of any political party that tells me that they are doing more for working class Americans or doing more for poor people, and yet they're spending 2 billion to fly somebody around and send me junk mail to my home. I would much rather you stop buying ad space and then you actually go and serve the poor and somebody takes a picture of you doing that on accident. And I actually get to see that and go, oh my gosh, they're actually serving the poor. Do not tell me you're serving the poor or serving working class Americans and you haven't talked to one or seen one in a very long time. And my God, you have not lived in our shoes. You have not lived on our pay scales. You have not come in and volunteered regularly, and you only show up when there's a camera crew doing that.(01:11:34):That is so gross to me, and I hate that you send me mail about it and spend 2 billion fundraising for things like that. And yet that money could go to the poor and that money could go to programs. If there's one thing that makes me want to soapbox so bad, it is that more than anything else, I don't want to hear what your fundraising dollars have done to actually help your campaign. And that thing becomes a total waste when you lose. And that money doesn't go into the pockets of people. That money goes into the pockets of advertisers and radio stations and TV stations and social media influencers and all sorts of nonsense and actually doesn't go into the pockets and the hands of people who are feeding the poor that is garbage. So I feel very strongly about that, but I dunno if this is what you need, but that's how I make space. I make space for people who live at Principled Middle because I think blessed are the peacemakers and I want them to feel safe with me.Speaker 13 (01:12:26):Good morning. My name is Luis Cast. How do I see my own humanity in this political context? Well, it's simple as that. I'm a human being. I'm not a pawn or a little peace on a game. I'm a human being born and raised in Mexico, but I live here in the United States over half of my life now, and I'm a human being. And no matter what the promises they give me or what they're going to do in government, I'm still just a human being that wants the best for me and my family. And that's what they need to address the human being in us regarding not regarding color or race or where they come from. Treat us a as human beings. And the other question, how do I make space for folks who do not share my political view?(01:13:46):Well, again, it's just simple. I was taught that love whoever disagree with you or even your enemy. But to be honest, that's the hardest thing to do. People that don't agree with you or you don't agree with them, and sometimes they even hurt you. But I try to do my best, honestly, just to listen and sometimes put myself in their shoes because everybody has been brought up differently in families, cultures, regions of the country from the south, from New England, they call in the west in California. So we all have different views. So I just don't have an ear and sometimes an opinion, but mostly an ear so they can really listen to what they, I believe, where they come from, where they come from. So that is what I try to do. No, perfect, but that's what I try to do.Speaker 14 (01:14:59):Hi, my name is Claire. I am a white, cisgender, heterosexual woman. I live in Paulsboro, Washington. So the first question is how do I see my humanity in the context of this current political moment? And I'd start off by saying I come from a pretty privileged place, like my own personal humanity isn't very threatened just because I'm white, I'm straight, and yeah, my own family background. I have a lot of support and I'm not ever threatened with becoming homeless or something if I can't pay my bills. But still things are really scary for so many people right now. So I definitely feel that all the time. And I would say that it's just a really disheartening time. A lot of the, I mean, pretty much all politicians, I'd say are very untrustworthy at a local and national level. And I think we're all seeing that, especially in the context of what's happening in Gaza.(01:16:26):For the last over a year now, all these politicians that felt like they were progressive and would speak out when heinous things happened, most of them have gone silent or completely denied what's happening in Gaza, or just said really brief empty words, always proceeded by talking about Israeli hostages. So yeah, it's been terrifying because we realize the extent of politicians care for the general public and for the global wellbeing of humanity. And it only stretches so far because first and foremost, they're concerned about their own and standing in the political world because we've seen a lot of people lose their reelections for standing up for Palestinians.(01:17:38):And I think what's really disheartening is seeing it at a local level. In some ways, we expect national politicians to be pretty sleazy and skirt around really big, terrible, important issues. But seeing it at a local level has been really terrifying because I mean, they said it was then a couple decades ago, like 30, 40 years ago, there's more crises going on. And that really, for me, I've always thought, well, this is how it's always been. There's just the media reports on more stuff. We have social media, we can't hide a lot of things. So I don't know if that's true or not, but I mean, it probably is. We're in a time of climate crisis too, so it makes sense that things are just, they're not slowing down.(01:18:49):I don't know where I was going with that, but yeah, I guess I would just say humanity. It feels threatened on so many levels for my queer friends, for my friends of color, for any women or female identifying people just on so many levels, it just feels like our rights are being threatened and everything feels tenuous. If Trump wins, what the hell is going to happen to this country? And if Kamala wins, what the hell is going to change? I don't believe in politicians. They're not going to save us. That's how it feels. We have to save each other that are diehard Trumpers or something. I'd say all those people are my relatives that live in Wisconsin or a couple of coworkers, and we don't talk about politics, but on a deeper level, I try to remember that it's hard, right? Because hard, it's hard not to hate people for what they believe. I guess that's a horrible thing to say, isn't it? But I see the consequences of people who vote for Trump and put him in office the first time, their direct consequences because they voted for Trump and because of their beliefs and because of what they repost online. That just has bred so much hatred, and it's led to people being terrified for their lives and people losing their lives. There's so much propaganda being shoved down people's throats, the people that have Fox News plane 24 7.(01:21:06):I don't know the last time I watched Fox News, but I've overheard it. That stuff is crazy. They're being fed lie after lie after lie. So yeah, it's like people are also a product of their culture and it's hard to fight against your culture. So I try to give people some grace with that, but I also don't know how they can't see their own beliefs as harmful and full of hatred. I really don't understand. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard to remember people's humanity, but I have obviously my own blind spots and my own ways that I'm super ignorant and willfully ignorant in the things I look away from and the things like I'm resistant to learning because it's inconvenient or uncomfortable for me. So I try to hold that space for people too, because we're all learning. Yeah, it's a process of trying to remember people's humanity. And I think, yeah, but it just feels like when people support someone that spews so much hatred, it's really hard not to pin that blame on them as well, because they're also at fault for putting people like that in power. So I don't know. Yeah, it's a tough one.Speaker 15 (01:22:55):I feel like as somebody with various subordinated identities, whether that's being queer, being Latina, having a disability, being a woman, all of those things are increasingly politicized. And so for me, I find that political discourse specifically is often really dehumanizing and even performative on the other end of the spectrum. So our two major parties, Republican and Democrat with Republican, it's we well known that those political parties as they exist currently are working to strip away rights from people in all of those identity and affinity groups. While the Democrats, which I won't even say left, because current Democrats are right of center, when you look at a global pe

AGREE TO DISAGREE! // Raccoons invade Kitsap // WE HEAR YOU! and WORDS TO LIVE BY

What’s Trending: Crime continues to run rampant in Seattle as multiple people were injured and a car crashed into a hospital during a shooting on Capitol Hill. Kitsap’s water taxi service is in jeopardy of being canceled altogether due to the risk of part failure on some of their boats. Washington’s plans to electrify its ferry fleet is a complete boondoggle. // Big Local: Dashcam footage captured Thurston County police’s high speed chase of a suspect on a motorcycle. Thieves stole $30,000 of equipment from Key Peninsula Fire Department. A Bartell’s in Shoreline is the latest of the drug stores to shut down. // RFK Jr. is in hot water after it was discovered he dumped a dead bear cub’s body in Central Park.

Meet Greg Nance   Greg Nance grew up in Kitsap and is on a mission to pay it forward for the next generation of Kitsap kids. He is a youth mentor, distance runner, and nonprofit leader recognized by President Obama. Greg grew up in a middle class union family on Bainbridge Island and worked as a landscaper, house painter, and firewood splitter. The son of a social worker and public defender, Greg learned the value of hard work and community service around the dinner table. His Mom spent over 20 years as a nursing home social worker ensuring seniors across Kitsap have access to quality care and are treated with dignity. His Dad was a Seattle Seahawks beer vendor before helping unionize the Seattle Public Defender to ensure everyone, including the poor and marginalized, are provided effective legal representation as guaranteed by our constitution. He grew up idolizing his grandfathers: Grandpa Charlie, a Marine who fought at Iwo Jima; and Grandpa Kick, a Navy Seabee who fought at Okinawa. WWII cut both their educations short so they stressed the gift of public education and the importance of lifelong learning. Greg attended Kitsap K-12 public schools and graduated from Bainbridge High. He played baseball, basketball, and football across the peninsula and excelled in track and debate. During his senior year at BHS, he was the 3A Washington State Debate Champion and proudly represented Team USA as 1 of 5 All-American debaters at the 2007 World Championships in Seoul, South Korea. Following competition, Greg loved telling debaters from Pakistan, Scotland, and Japan about the peninsula west of Seattle that he was lucky to call home.     Congressman Jay Inslee nominated Greg to the United States Military Academy at West Point in December 2006, but he decided to attend UChicago after earning a scholarship. He was elected Student Government President at UChicago and was named Washington State's 2010 Harry S Truman Scholar — the Presidential Memorial to Public Service. In 2011 he earned a full ride to Cambridge University where he studied Management and innovation as a Gates Scholar. Despite early successes, Greg also struggled. Following the loss of his beloved Grandpa Charlie, Greg battled depression and began self-medicating with alcohol at age 16. He tried to quit drinking a hundred times before finally getting sober on December 29, 2011. Now sober for over 4300 days, Greg loves sharing lessons learned while working to help young people build resilience and compassion. Greg recently completed a 3,156 mile run from the Atlantic to the Pacific for youth mental health (read the Seattle Times recap). He is the CEO of Run Far Foundation, a nonprofit building youth resilience coast-to-coast. He founded Dyad Mentorship and Moneythink, organizations that helped students earn over $27 million in university scholarships. President Obama recognized Moneythink as a “Champion of Change” at the White House on March 15, 2012. He has been working to protect Puget Sound since 1995. His 6th grade science class raised and released salmon eggs (the chum salmon now returning from the Pacific are 7th generation). He represents Kitsap on the Citizens Advisory Group for the Hood Canal Coordinating Council, our region's Lead Entity on salmon recovery. He is working to mobilize the next generation of environmentalists to save our salmon and protect Puget Sound. Greg is a frequent speaker at Kitsap public schools because he loves inspiring kids with adventure stories like running 7 marathons in 7 days on 7 continents. He became the first person to ever run 86 miles — and climb 14,410ft. — from Puget Sound to the summit of Mt. Rainier. Greg's running career peaked in 2016 when his beloved Seattle Seahawks named him “12 Ambassador” and featured his ultrarunning in TV commercials (watch here). Greg now proudly represents Kitsap as State Rep — he's working for working families, like the one he grew up in. Let's work together to Fix our Ferries, Protect Puget Sound, and fully fund public schools so the next generation of Kitsap kids can grow up happy and healthy!  

As investigators search for the vicious killer of a Navy yeoman in Kitsap, Washington, they come across the troubling realization that the victim may have expected his own demise.Season 29 Episode 13Originally aired: June 27, 2021Watch full episodes of Snapped for FREE on the Oxygen app: https://oxygentv.app.link/WatchSnappedPodSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week, we're joined by state senator Emily Randall (LD 26) for a wide-ranging discussion about her campaign to succeed Derek Kilmer as member of Congress representing the 6th congressional district (parts of Tacoma, as well as Bainbridge Island, Bremerton, and the Kitsap and Olympic Peninsulas). SHOW NOTES: https://electemilyrandall.com/

We covered this case almost 3 years ago on our Patreon. At the time, the case was unsolved and there wasn't a lot of information available to the public. Since then, there have been multiple arrests and a trial. This is the case of the Careaga family murders.  Connect with Us Check out our fan perks! Support the shop on Etsy or Threadless ------------------------------------------ Sources: Careaga family quadruple homicide suspects set to go on trial Opening statements in trial for Careaga murder suspects delayed Prosecutors say cellphone data will play important role during trial of Careaga Family murders Careaga family hopes for swift justice as murder trial begins | Kitsap Daily News Seabeck quadruple homicide trial to begin | king5.com Secondary charges dropped for 3 suspects in Careaga family quadruple murders Jury selection to being in Careaga murder trial | Washington | bigcountrynewsconnection.com Jury picked for trial of 3 accused of killing 4 Careaga family members Careaga murders: 3 suspects plead not guilty to Kitsap killings linked to cocaine, cash Suspects in Careaga family killing plead not guilty, get no bail | king5.com 3 men accused of Careaga killings have secondary charges dropped Careaga family murders: Judge orders suspects held without bail https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2024/01/19/trial-for-careaga-homicides-suspects-hits-illness-snag/72259970007/ https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/defense-says-2017-murder-of-seabeck-family-closing-arguments-quadruple-homicide/281-3cc73223-4366-447f-b847-72a7d95f3cdb Careaga case jury visits sites related to evidence in trial Thursday https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2024/03/27/closing-arguments-in-five-month-careaga-murder-trial-near-completion/73099735007/ https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/blogs/crime-and-justice/2023/11/24/careaga-family-quadruple-homicide-suspects-trial/71626167007/ Closing arguments in five-month Careaga murder trial near completion Cases wrapped, closing arguments expected next week in Careaga trial | Kitsap Daily News Closing arguments begin for 'Bandidos' gang members accused of killing Seabeck family | king5.com Kitsap SunCareaga homicide trial: Neighbor, drug dealer give testimonyDec 19, 2023 3 men found guilty in 2017 Kitsap County quadruple-murder Danie J Kelly Information | PDF

The extraterrestrial comedy podcast where we probe an alleged physical assault on Bigfoot. It's the Sassy Saga part two - the second time we've probed Bigfoot. In 2010, Tim Peeler's dogs were in heat which was very important for us to know. That heat, may have attracted Bigfoot. Ole' Sassy themselves. Being randy, Bigfoot simply wouldn't ‘GET' and so Tim had to take action. That action was first to poke Sasquatch with a stick but when that didn't work, Tim brought out the big guns. Tim's gun. By gun, we mean Tim's arm - Tim punched Bigfoot. That's right, Tim Peeler, is the man who socked Bigfoot. What did Bigfoot do? This led us to another emergency services call about Bigfoot over in Washington State. Are these two calls the most compelling Bigfoot eye witness accounts there have ever been? Alongside that we ponder whether coyotes are coy… Was Tim Peeler a Pokemon trainer? Can Bigfoot speak dog? All that and more on this week's file. Go on, GET.   The Tim Peeler calls between 13:25 - 15:40 and 17:06 - 23:17 The news report is 29:07 - 31:01 Washington State 911 call: 35:03 - 36:28     Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/butitwasaliens   Store: https://butitwasaliens.co.uk/shop/     Probe us: Email: butitwasaliens@gmail.com Instagram/Threads @ ButItWasAliens Twitter @ ButItWasAliens Facebook: @ ButItWasAliens - join Extraterrestrial Towers     Music:  Music created via Garageband. Additional music via: https://freepd.com - thank you most kindly good people. We closed out the episode with the 'Staff Roll' aka credits theme from Nintendo's 1990-1992 Super Mario World from the Super Nintendo Entertainment System, composed by Hero of Sound Kōji Kondō.     Sources: YouTube audio of the Tim Peeler 911 call:  Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juVIyVwjBzA (2:15) Part 2: https://youtu.be/MUS2vMgKda0?feature=shared (6:10) Another link: https://youtu.be/ke42-2nfbbg?si=ib6Lr7Nn5v-asjv1 (1:52)   WCNC News Report on Tim Peeler: https://youtu.be/EppoBdFUyYE?si=8l6Ve80hlvaUbvBN    Tim Peeler's own account on YouTube via Tim's YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/qhDI_9MlUIE?feature=shared Back up of Tim's account: https://youtu.be/0waaPsgrdH0?feature=shared    YouTube audio of the second Bigfoot 911 call in Kitsap, Peninsula, Washington State during 1990: https://youtu.be/WmbNEKrNnvg?feature=shared    CBS article of man struck by vehicle pretending to be Bigfoot: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-hit-by-car-twice-in-apparent-bigfoot-hoax/

Paul English from OG Seattle Area metal band Woodrot stops by the Misery Point Radio studio to discuss the early days of the Kitsap music scene, his various bands, his friendship and work with Mos Generator's Tony Reed, and the vinyl release of classic Woodrot material in the form of Ethics: A Relic. We also explore  his technical involvement in various other bands, what led to his retirement from performing, and plans for one final (and very personal) release. Misery Point Radio Links:  https://facebook.com/MiseryPointRadio https://instagram.com/miserypointradio https://miserypointradio.podbean.com https://live365.com/station/Misery-Point-Radio-a76715 Woodrot Links: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063595240933 https://woodrot1.bandcamp.com    

Tom, Joey, Mick Heath of Finn Bay Lodge, and David Feucht of Duckworth get you ready for the final day of the Seattle Boat Show, and they get you ready for Costal Halibut with Dave Johnson of Kitsap Marine. 

Bryan likes free apples. Bryan thinks the Supreme Court will punt on the Trump eligibility question. Seattle proposes tax on businesses with higher earners for affordable housing and it's a head tax 2.0. KNOW IT ALL: 1) Deflation becoming a problem in China. 2) Israel continues to prosecute the war in Gaza. 3) School board supervisor trashed campaign signs in Kitsap county. 4) Tucker Carlson interviewing Putin in Moscow. // Homeland Security has taken interest in counterfeit merchandise at the Super Bowl. The Supreme Court is hearing arguments in the Trump ballot case. // Oral arguments are taking place in the Trump ballot case and Bryan explains the 14th amendment's impact on the proceedings. 

Funding has been cut off for Volvo's EV affiliate in Sweden and Bryan isn't surprised. Palette cleanser: Andrea Bocelli sang Amazing Grace at the National Prayer Breakfast this morning. // Bryan and producer Greg review Billy Joel's new song. A checking of the texting. // Former head of Kitsap 911 charged in King County sex sting and it makes Bryan recall the famous TV show To Catch A Predator. Tech CEOs grilled by Senators.  

Folksy anecdote alert: Bryan had a metallic object shatter the sun roof of his car. A sports reporter asked a very dumb question about bad weather NFL games and Bryan has mixed feelings of scorn and sympathy for her. KNOW IT ALL: 1) Washington state has certified a ballot measure that would overturn the carbon auction market. 2) Kitsap county judge refuses to hear case from voters trying to remove Trump from the ballot. 3) World's oldest dog has died. // China's economy is in trouble and it has a lot to do with demographic decline. // C.S. Lewis vs. Freud. 

Today we Jacob Chymiy from Donate Kitsap  We are collaborating on this years warm coat and new sock drive.   The B.I.STANDER Podcast is a conversational podcast unique to Bainbridge Island and Seattle Washington, that covers the Arts, Society & Culture told through Human Interest stories. The intent is to introduce interesting people, ideas, and conversations. We are not perfect and that's OK! Thank you for your support! The B.I.Stander Podcast is a listener supported show, please consider subscribing.   BE A FRIEND OF PODCASTVILLE AND TELL A FRIEND  The BISTANDER Podcast! Blue Canary Auto NOW ALSO in Bremerton! Sound Reprographics Song "Fly on the Wall by LeRoy Bell and available at:  Tower Records! Additional sound effects by: https://www.zapsplat.com/ Support the Show on PATREON "Be a friend, tell a friend!"  

Just a quick announcement! I will be at Kitsap quiz night this week to talk about Bremelore for Kitsap Smokestack's "Local Legends" video series. Hope to see you there! Don't forget to check out the Kitsap Smokestack at a small business near you or at their website www.kitsapsmokestack.org If you can't make it to quiz night, that's okay! If you subscribe to the smokestack's youtube channel, you can catch the interview there when it uploads! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bremelore/message

This is an audio re-broadcast of the halloween special "Kreepy Kitsap" put on by the Kitsap History Museum in 2020! If you'd like to see all of the photos and documents that Gregg Olsen references, you can find them in the youtube broadcast here: https://youtu.be/A1GVBmV5fuM?si=_gTBRsbJpScUgKNT If you'd like to check out the history museum or donate, you can visit https://kitsapmuseum.org/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bremelore/message

In response to the threat posed by extreme right-wing groups like Moms for Liberty to our public schools, we continue our coverage of critical school board races across the state. This week, we are joined by three individuals who are running for election in and around Kitsap. Breezy Mitchell: https://www.electbreezymitchell.com/ Terri Schumacher: https://schumacher4board.poliengine.com/ Karen Bolton: https://www.electkarenbolton.com/

Today on the Chit & Chat; encouraging one another podcast, I get the opportunity to interview Brandy D'Ininosanto she has been behind the call when you might have called 911, in the Kitsap area, and she has been doing it for 20 years. She has seen many changes over the years and has answered many, many calls. She works at CENCOM, which takes all 911 Emergency and non-Emergency calls with in the Kitsap County area which covers many, many miles and areas. In May and June they received nearly 30,000 calls and on July 4th they received 1200 calls. It was a blast getting to know her and hearing about how she go into this very unique field. Thank you also to the many 911 Operators all over the US, the many hours they put in and answering calls 24/7/365 from a fender bender to some very severe life threating issues. Most of us get to clock out at 4pm but CENCOM is manned all day every day, they are there for you the many citizens of Kitsap County. Also featuring songs by: Sassy Vezay- If Your Dog Don't Like Him, fun song to listen too. Want to check out more about Sassy check out her site at LINKTR.EE/SASSYVEZAY, Andrew Dean, share his song; Wanted; A Good Time For All, his website it ANDREWDEAN.US And thank you to Darrell Dom & Monster Target and their song Money Mayweather.. His website is HOLYCULTURE.NET/DIRECTORY/ARTIST/DARRELL DOMINC. Please check out these amazing businesses. I also want to thank my sponsors you can find each of these businesses on Facebook: From Silverdale Washington, Taquiza & Taquiza Street they have some really good authentic Mexican food, and are locally owned and operated. Also Thank you to Double D's BBQ & Smokery, they are a food truck out of Kington, Washington. Great tasting BBQ, locally owned by Navy Veterans. And Lone Star Donuts with locations in Port Orchard, Silverdale and soon in Poulsbo Washington. Great tasting, made fresh every day Donuts!! I also want to thank Alex Pablo and what Alex does is: His company specializes in assisting small to medium-sized local family restaurant establishments in enhancing their brand identity and cultivating a strong business image, thereby attracting a greater customer base and boosting sales. They provide some really great services aimed at effectively showcasing their enticing offerings, and implementing efficient online ordering software to drive increased online sales. Their objective is to empower these businesses to flourish and achieve sustained success in their respective markets. You can find him at www.aldentedigitals.com Also subscribe and follow this podcast as I continue to share encouraging, uplifting conversations with people from all over the world as well as fun, energetic music. Until next time this is Chit & Chat; encouraging one another podcast, "Where it's always about Encouraging others." --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Only a handful of companies dominate today's grocery landscape. And that could shrink even more if regulators approve the Albertsons-Kroger merger. Increasingly communities like Bremerton, where stores are already scarce, are looking to food co-ops as an alternative model.

 Link to Solutions article: HEREhttps://www.kitsapsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2023/03/10/parent-group-offers-steps-toward-safety-inclusion-in-schools/69987422007/ Latino parent group presents steps toward safety, inclusion in schoolsDanielle S. CastillejoGuest columnOn February 7 community members gathered at a town hall meeting in Poulsbo to support the Latino Parent Group's request to the North Kitsap School District (NKSD) to investigate ongoing allegations of discrimination against students. At least 125 people attended, including Kitsap ERACE Coalition, the NAACP, Suquamish Tribal Elder Barbara Lawrence, Kitsap SURJ, local business owners, teachers, Poulsbo City Council, Kitsap Public Health, Kitsap Black Student Union, Kitsap Strong, Living Life Leadership, Poulsbo for All, Kitsap Mental Health Services representatives, Central Kitsap school administrators, Bainbridge Island school administrators, Bainbridge Island's mayor and Cultural Council, and many Latino families.We are grateful we are not alone. And we express our gratitude to the North Kitsap School District for processing some 85 emailed complaints and hiring an investigator to explore and resolve these concerns.In Kitsap County, we must urgently consider practical solutions for addressing racism in education, its effects on our youth's learning and mental health. Unaddressed racial trauma in our schools creates barriers to education, work, and mental and physical health. Our youth — all youth — are searching for ways to cope with the effects of racism, the pandemic and violence.Therefore, we must also urgently pursue healing. The North Kitsap Latino community offers the school district community-based practical solutions for forming partnerships with immigrants of other national origins, African Americans, Asian American/Pacific Islanders, and Indigenous students. Working together, we give all of our children a more inclusive society.In the words of Cesar Chavez: “We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.”The problems the Latino community face are deeply rooted in Kitsap County's historical racism, discrimination, and resulting harm to others who are perceived as “different.” Latino families share an important indigeneity connection with the Suquamish and Port Gamble S'Klallam Tribes, on whose ancestral lands we are guests. We are deeply grateful for these Tribes' work and advocacy to achieve justice and healing on behalf of, not only themselves, but also many other Kitsap County communities, including ours.As committed investors in our county economically and socially, we are also deeply committed stakeholders in the education of our children. Empowering our Latino community and other communities of Color, which bear the impact of racism and discrimination, builds bridges and creates movement toward truth, healing, and reconciliation.In a story published by the Kitsap Sun last November on this issue, NKSD stated, "Students and families should feel welcome and have a sense of belonging in our schools. When there are barriers to this, it is on us to have the courageous conversations to make meaningful changes."To advance these aspirational goals, we have asked the NK School District for two things: Equal access to education for English language learners and a culture of belonging that includes educating and providing learning on nondiscrimination.We have also provided specific practical solutions:1.  An equity concern form to be provided in both English and Spanish. It may be completed by students, staff, parents or community members to report district or school equity concerns, as well as give positive feedback to the district.2. Critical communication such as student updates, school announcements, emergency messages, and counseling services will be made available in the top three languages other than English. Additionally, qualified interpreters will be made available for parents to communicate with administrators and educators at all school events.3. English-language acquisition and student supports:- English language learners will receive language support regularly, for a minimum 4 days a week, at 20 minutes a day. These students will be placed in classrooms with teachers trained in evidence-based teaching strategies while supported by administrators in their classroom needs.- The district ensures all students have access to understanding their class content and materials, in classes, such as English, math, science, music, and all electives. - English language learning will include support for speaking, listening, reading and writing skills.4. Professional development will be provided for administrators, teachers, para-professionals and any staff working with children and youth, covering these specific topics: the impact of racial trauma, understanding student needs, how to support students, mental health resources, equality, and equity.5. Paid community liaisons to provide direct support to families through advocacy, creating safety and belonging, and addressing mental health needs. Each of the following will have a liaison: African American, Asian American Pacific Islander, Latino and Indigenous communities.6. The Latino community will collaborate with the district and other community liaisons to gather and elevate the voice of their community needs to explore partnership opportunities. Then, within this partnership, they will form 2-, 3- and 5-year plans to ensure students of color and their parents are supported in their educational needs.7. An education equity council will review the equity concern forms, discuss solutions to equity concerns, implement solutions, advise the school administration and school board, and develop pathways to understanding on behalf of students and the district. These practical solutions undergird our children's education. Along with creating a sense of belonging, the solutions build important frameworks for trust among the district, the Latino community and other communities of color. When the Kitsap County Health Department declared racism a public health crisis in 2021, the county recognized our situation. Loneliness and a lack of belonging are common threads for children of all national origins and races in this post pandemic world. Our urgent desire for unity, coupled with practical solutions, supports this community in a world that is increasingly fragmented. Kitsap County students are asking our generation to provide safety, learning opportunities, and model inclusion, not racism. Let us follow their lead and work together. Danielle S. Castillejo writes on behalf of the North Kitsap School District Latino Parent Group and Kitsap Advocating for Immigrant Rights and Equality.

On this Tuesday topical show, Crystal welcomes Bryce Yadon and Marcella Buser from Futurewise to talk about the For Our Future campaign's success in passing middle housing and climate planning bills during the 2023 legislative session. Bryce and Marcella share how organizing a broad statewide coalition and sustained efforts by key legislators finally pushed middle housing across the finish line, then delve into the details of implementation, rulemaking, and why the policy appeals to so many.  The conversation continues with diagnosing why a transit-oriented development bill had trouble moving forward and describing what impacts the climate planning bill will have in our communities. Finally, Marcella and Bryce encourage interested folks to get involved and help Futurewise tackle continued action and future legislation around land use in Washington state. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Follow us on Twitter at @HacksWonks. Find the host, Crystal Fincher, on Twitter at @finchfrii, find Futurewise at @FuturewiseWA, find Bryce Yadon at @BAYadon, and find Marcella Buser at @marcymarce98.   Bryce Yadon Bryce started working with Futurewise and as a lobbyist in December of 2014. He has a BA from Seattle University in Political Science and a Masters from Middlesex University in Environmental Sustainable Management. He is a contract lobbyist who works on issues related to land use, housing, and transportation representing and working with a broad range of organizations, advocates, and businesses. Marcella Buser Marcella Buser is Futurewise's State Organizer and has been organizing for the past 5 years in Oregon and Washington. She's organized thousands of volunteers around efforts to pass missing middle housing and climate planning in the GMA in Washington, and other environmental and public health policies in the Northwest. She grew up in rural Oregon on her parents' apple farm and in her free time you can find her gardening, cooking, and enjoying live music.   Resources “2023 Legislative Wrap-Up!” from Futurewise   Missing Middle Housing One-Pager | Futurewise   Climate-Resilient Growth One-Pager | Futurewise   Transit-Oriented Development One-Pager | Futurewise   “Four Vital Housing and Climate Bills Survive the Washington Legislature” by Ray Dubicki from The Urbanist   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to get the full versions of our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, the most helpful thing you can do is leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. I am excited to be welcoming two folks from Futurewise - Bryce Yadon and Marcella Buser - here to talk about the work that Futurewise and others did on land use and policy bills during the legislature and in general - trying to help our community serve the people who live in it better. So just starting out - starting with Marcella - what brought you to this work and why is it so important? [00:01:18] Marcella Buser: Thanks for having me on, Crystal. I think what brought me to organizing and what brought me to Futurewise are two different things. I got involved in organizing back in college. I grew up on a farm, so I had never been canvassed before. I really didn't know that activism and organizing were a thing, but I grew up caring a lot about the environment, and sustainable agriculture, and everything related to growing up on a farm. So it wasn't until I was in college that I had my first experiences with organizing and learned that protests don't just happen out of serendipity, but there's a lot of planning and organizing that goes behind it. So I really fell in love with organizing and I thought it was so cool that I could be a part of making my voice heard and passing bills. I was still a teenager at the time - you didn't have to be an expert on the issue and I thought that was awesome. So I absolutely fell in love with organizing, took it on as my career and I've been doing that for the past five years, working on a variety of issues. And really the thing that keeps me so engaged in organizing is knowing that there are still thousands of people out there that, like me, really cared about these issues but have no idea that they can be a part of the solution. And then with Futurewise - I'm relatively new to the team - I just joined last fall, but I absolutely love it. Growing up, again, on a farm - I always saw cities as these expensive, polluted, scary places. Density was a bad word to me. And it wasn't until I moved to Seattle and started working with Futurewise that I learned - really, if we want to be protecting our farms and our forests and our green spaces, having these dense cities is the solution. This is the way to protect our world. And when you're building cities well, they can be equitable and affordable and environmentally friendly. So I absolutely love still learning more about urban planning and land use - and organizing on these issues. [00:03:27] Crystal Fincher: Excellent. And what about you, Bryce? [00:03:29] Bryce Yadon: Thanks for having us on and letting us join. I got my start in Olympia in 2006 - I believe, was my first legislative session, if I'm remembering correctly - it feels like a really long time ago now. And worked my way up to becoming a contract lobbyist in 2009 and 2010. And I represented a few groups and organizations that I didn't always see eye to eye on, and it was a little more difficult to work. So I took a break from politics for a few years, got my master's and came back - in environmental sustainable management - figuring out that really the environment and land use is where my passion lies, just generally. And I got lucky enough to have some friends who worked in and around Futurewise and helped connect me to, at the time, Hilary Franz, who hired me on as the State Policy Director in 2015 - early 2015, late 2014. And really, I have been working on land use, transportation, housing issues since then. And it all really, like I said, stems from 10 years of searching about what I cared about before I fell into the lap of Futurewise. And it's been really exciting to see the organization continue to grow and being able to continue to work on a host of issues that kind of change every year on the land use realm, because there's a lot to do in that space. So yeah, just a long time of slowly working my way into the land use and transportation realm. And now I'm lucky enough to continue to do it. [00:04:54] Crystal Fincher: Excellent. So like you said, there's so much to do. But there have been some headline issues over the past couple years, culminating with this last session - middle housing, transit oriented development, the GMA climate bill. Starting with middle housing and the coalition - getting that together - the multi-session effort that it took to pass it, but resulting in passage. What was that process like? And why is this so important? [00:05:21] Bryce Yadon: Yeah, I'll start off with that. It was a multi-year thing, and I do want to mention that there was a couple of different priorities moving in tandem throughout the last few sessions. Representative Bateman, Representative Macri, and others had been working on middle housing for a number of years before Futurewise got involved. We always knew we would eventually be able to really help. But a few years ago, what we started off with was what was called House Bill 1220, which was an update to the housing element of the Growth Management Act. And the reason why that is important is it set the stage for us to take on these larger issues, such as middle housing and TOD. And what that update did was required local jurisdictions to plan differently for housing types. It also required the state to start addressing and issuing housing targets that are a little more specific than they used to be. They used to just be general - you should be allowing this many units. Now we're more in the detailed units. And so from a Futurewise perspective, it started back in 2020 with the introduction of that bill and worked forward. And we had built a small coalition on updating the housing requirements under that - knowing that in 2024, the vast majority of local jurisdictions are going to be updating their comprehensive plan required by law - where all these planning documents come together to facilitate access to housing, hopefully. So that was - from a Futurewise perspective - that was our first kind of go at trying to figure out what was the preliminary step to take. And then what it allowed us to do then is look at how do local jurisdictions implement this new law? What are the opportunities that Futurewise and the state need to give them to really fully embrace income levels, housing at all income levels, affordable housing, and those important things. And so when we were able to team up with Representative Bateman, she had already built a small coalition that was pretty strong. But over the course of about six months, myself, Futurewise, Marcella teamed up with a very large coalition that cut across areas that normally don't - we had business, we had realtors, we had environmental organizations, we had labor all teamed up, because there's one thing that everybody needs, which is housing. And I think that was a big deal to kind of restructure what the coalition looked like going into the 2023 session. And I think that one of the best and interesting parts about that, when we look at the breadth of knowledge within that coalition - like I said, we had folks - we had realtors who understand what people are looking for in housing these days and what they want to market to folks. We have builders that are seeing where they're getting hangups in where and how they can build. You have environmental organizations like Futurewise that understood that a lot of the density and outcomes we're looking for to protect the environment are around types of new housing, and it's like middle housing - that take up less space, that provide community and those things. And I think that was one of the key aspects at the end of the day was just the coalition having such knowledge in different aspects that really helped push it over the line. And again, Representative Bateman and others had worked on it for, I think, three or four years prior to Futurewise stepping in and really helping out. So I want to give a lot of credit to the previous work they did. And then the one other thing that I think is extremely important to realize that our coalition and all the work Marcella and everybody else did - one of the things that we can't substitute is hard work from a member. And there was Representative Bateman who was consistently meeting with her colleagues one-on-one, folks like Representative Macri, Representative Fitzgibbon and others meeting with members one-on-one just about this specific bill to make sure that we were addressing policy concerns throughout the whole thing. So I think that was the key culmination for us is - it was a four-year period, there was two different tracks we were taking, and then they lined up at the right time. And again, we think this is one of the policy implementation bills for House Bill 1220 that we passed a number of years ago. [00:09:27] Crystal Fincher: Got it. Marcella, Bryce covered a little bit about the coalition with this - and it was a broad and varied coalition, but a coalition that even within the housing space didn't agree on all issues - and were working together on some bills this past session, were working in opposition on other bills this session. What did it take, and what was the process of pulling this coalition together and keeping it together throughout this session, throughout the changes in the bill? Can you walk us through what that was like? [00:09:55] Marcella Buser: Yeah, so I can walk you through the grassroots side of the coalition - because how Bryce and I work together - Bryce is on the inside, working to create a policy that most people can get behind. And then I'm working on the outside with the rest of the state, making sure that we have the people power needed to get these bills over the finish line. So like I said, I started last fall - my very first day on staff was joining one of these coalition meetings and seeing all the different players in the room. My priority was coordinating the grassroots side of the coalition, so bringing together local groups that really cared about these issues, environmental groups, racial justice groups, everyone that had different types of reach and diversity in their interests. I would say how much we cared about missing middle and seeing this bill over the finish line united us way more than any of our differences could have separated us. Honestly, one of the larger challenges, rather than working on these other issues, was just balancing everyone's strengths. Like a local group might have expertise in a certain area but might not know about the rest of the state, whereas a comms team might have really great publications but not a large membership base to reach out to. So I think that was more - the bigger challenge is balancing that and through having really open and honest conversations every week in the meeting that I coordinated, we were able to figure out - okay, where can everyone make an impact? What makes sense for everyone? And how can we keep this bill moving? [00:11:33] Crystal Fincher: So what comes next? What does implementation look like for this? And what can people in their communities expect to see as a result? [00:11:42] Bryce Yadon: That's a really good question. Funny enough, we've been having both internal conversations as well as a few conversations with people in the governor's office and the Department of Commerce. So the immediate next step is going to be that the Department of Commerce is going to start a rulemaking process for implementation at the local level. We have a phased approach to this piece of legislation, so the four central Puget Sound counties - so King, Kitsap, Pierce, and Snohomish - have to update their development regulations and implement this piece of legislation by June of 2025, because it's due six months after the comprehensive plan. This gives us a two-year time window to assist local jurisdictions in implementation. So the first thing that we're going to probably start seeing is the Department of Commerce both from a small group area - small groups - calling people in to get feedback and ideas on how this should be implemented, what should the regulations and sideboards should be for implementation of this bill. We're also going to see - because the rulemaking process is public - we're also going to be seeing opportunities for the general public to provide feedback to the Department of Commerce through hearings and other things over the next six months to a year. [00:13:01] Crystal Fincher: And pausing right here, what does it mean - what kinds of things are being taken up and handled in rulemaking? What is going to be determined there? [00:13:08] Bryce Yadon: Yeah, that's a good question. So things such as what does the definition of substantially similar to development regulations that apply to single-family homes. So things that we didn't define very well that are going to be required. So again, one of them was you can't have any more restrictive requirements than you have on a single-family zone. So those will be things like matching up your setbacks and making sure that it's clear that we have a - you're either following the law, or not. So I think some of those rules will be very clear - that we think they're clear in the law, but we need to make sure they're there. I also think we'll also see things that will be able to be just adopted out of the rules to a local city's ordinance. And so things, like I said, what do setbacks look like for middle housing comparatively to other types? Or what does open space look like between courtyard apartments - how much is open space needed to create a courtyard apartment situation? What should the average heights, or what could be heights, that would facilitate different unit sizes for each development? What does substantially similar for affordable housing look like? 'cause we do have affordable housing incentives built into the bill. So those are some of the things. But I think it's going to be imperative of us all to think about how broad and how flexible can we make sure that this is, that the rulemaking is so local jurisdictions can really facilitate the development of these housing types. And I think that's one of the things that we want to make sure is going to occur at the end of the day. So those are some of the things - obviously, I'm probably missing a whole host of them because it's such a big piece of legislation and we haven't done this much extensive rulemaking on a bill in a while - like this, I should say, let alone on housing at the state level in a long time. And then - how's it going to impact the local area after we get through that? Second, you're going to see local jurisdictions taking up public hearings, opportunities to engage. There's multiple pathways for local jurisdictions to comply with the law. There's one that says - you have to upzone 75% of your single-family homes and you can protect 25%. But there's a lot of stipulations within that, so making sure we have folks on the ground that are paying attention to high risk of displacement areas, other areas that might have been formerly redlined. So we obviously need people at the local level to be engaged at the planning process. It also provides folks an opportunity to give feedback on development regulations. Again, another kind of rehash of setbacks, heights, other requirements that might go along with this. And then in reality, what do I think is going to look like on the ground in four or five years when we start seeing more of these develop is - more community and more homes for people. I live in a townhome - there's 11 units that is on two formerly single-family homes. And I've got a great community - I know my neighbors, I talk to them, we garden together out front - which is really exciting. So what I think we're going to see is just - is more housing options, maybe not always affordable for 80% and below, but more affordable than the single-family home that it replaced, which is really providing housing opportunity. So fits within the character of the neighborhood - the houses next to me look like they belong there and my house looks like it belongs here. And I'm right next to two-story apartment building that's next door to me as well, so it's a really diverse community and it's really exciting to see. So that's what we expect to see on the ground - is more people getting housing, more community being built, and facilitating a walkable environment that really creates and thrives in that community-based planning process. [00:16:54] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, thank you for going into detail on what rulemaking means. I think that's a part of the process that is not known to as many people as the legislative process. And so much is determined about the implementation with those - whether it's this legislation or any piece of legislation - it's so important to continue engaging and following through rulemaking. I've explained it before - it's like the difference - the law that was passed is like a script on paper and the rulemaking is what fills in all of those details to actually make it a movie. There's so much more than the words on the paper in the ways that they're interpreted, in the ways that they can manifest in reality. And so making all of those decisions about - What exactly does that definition mean? What does that look like in real life? - makes a big difference. So whether it's this or any piece of legislation, really - if you've been engaged in the fight to get it passed, please continue to stay involved. Or if you want to get involved for the first time, do it within this rulemaking period because it does impact how this will turn out in real life. Marcella, what was it about this that brought so many people to the coalition? What were some of the concerns that you had to overcome to continue to build this coalition? And what are you most excited to see as a result of this passing? [00:18:09] Marcella Buser: Yeah, I think so many people were brought to this coalition because regardless of what you care about, there is a reason why missing middle affects you in a positive way. So talking with folks that care about climate change and care about having more walkable communities - great, missing middle is a solution for you. Folks that care about dismantling systemic racism - great, missing middle is for you. I think the biggest barrier that we faced with this bill on the ground was less with the coalition and more with local opposition. So I'm thinking in particular about Edmonds. At the start of session, we saw a lot of letters to the editor against missing middle coming out of Edmonds, and eventually started seeing lawn signs and flyers - all of this work against missing middle. And we learned that this was coming from a group called ACE, or Alliance for Citizens of Edmonds, and they are an organized group that's been around since 2004. And part of their mission is, and I quote "preserving the character of Edmonds." So we knew that if we were going to get this bill passed, but - not just passed, get this implemented - we needed to have a very local and strategic approach to this. So we started working with our partners in Edmonds. We got connected with CARE, Coalition for Accessible and Resilient Edmonds, and started hosting regional meetings working to get more folks in the area involved. And we saw our engagement double - partially because we were there doing the work we needed to turn these folks out, but also because folks were seeing these lawn signs and thinking - You know, I don't really agree with that. I think I'm on the other side of this. And it ended up being successful. We got all of the representatives and the senators in that district to vote Yes on missing middle. But this was a big lesson learned - that if we want to keep passing zoning reform in the future and if we want to be implementing missing middle, we need to make sure that we're building these massive, stronger bases in these local, typically wealthier, smaller communities and making sure that we have the support needed to keep this work up. So I think that was one of the biggest struggles. And so making sure that our coalition wasn't just the folks that work on the statewide level, but we were working with individual smaller groups that work in these local communities - like Edmonds, Bellevue, Mercer Island, Bainbridge - and making sure that they were a part of this larger movement. [00:20:45] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And what - looking forward into another bill that you were working on - the transit oriented development bill, where does that stand? And where is it going? [00:20:57] Bryce Yadon: That's a good question. So just in terms of actual process real quick, it will go back to - I believe it goes back to the Senate. So it'll still be introduced next year, goes back to the last place that it passed, which would be - we have different steps, so it'll go back to the Senate. [00:21:12] Crystal Fincher: And what would it do? What would that bill accomplish? [00:21:15] Bryce Yadon: So the bill - it is a complement to the middle housing bill. So the middle housing bill obviously dealt with areas - just your entire city, generally speaking. What TOD, Transit Oriented Development Bill, did was really increase housing availability around our transit investments. So things like light rail, frequent transit service, or bus rapid transit, thinking about - again, King County has the Rapid Ride line, so it would increase development capacity at all the stops along the Rapid Ride line. They have Swift up in Snohomish County. Spokane is getting a number of bus rapid transit-type lines. So really what it would have done is taken areas - many of the bus lines go through a whole host of different zoning types - they go through commercial, they go through multifamily, and they also go through single-family. And what this was saying is the Legislature invested around $3.7 billion into bus transit in 2022 - let's leverage that to create housing opportunity around those things so people don't have to drive - thinking about how we implement our climate plans and meeting our goals for vehicle miles traveled that we have in state law. So it would have allowed, within a quarter mile of bus rapid transit, a substantial increase in what they call floor area ratio or FAR. FAR is a wonky term to look at your lot size and how much building capacity you can have on top of it. I think most of us would defer to like heights - so we normally see 40-foot heights or 60-foot heights. This does it based off of - how many square feet can you build per lot, depending on the size and location. But I'm going to defer back to like heights and density just because I think it's easier to understand, and I think that's the direction we'll probably inevitably see the bill go because people can envision it better. So functionally it would have allowed something - instead of two stories, it would have allowed something like five stories or six stories and that typically is wood frame construction over concrete that's the cheapest to build when you start talking about multifamily. And then around light rail, it would have done the steel and concrete type of construction, which can be upwards of 70, 80 to 150 feet or any skyscraper in Seattle, Bellevue, Tacoma, Everett - those types of buildings - around light rail. So it would have really increased the development capacity - and instead of thinking of it as a station area, you would think of it more as a transit line. So you would have whole sections following a bus that could be upzoned that might be currently single-family or low-rise development and really increase the capacity. So I think that was fundamentally what the bill did at the end of the day. And I think there was a lot of confusion, even among members and the lobbying team, as I mentioned - FAR and other requirements. So I think there has to be some peel back and look at how can we best talk about it and represent and show what the bill will do. I think that was one of the positives of missing middle - we were able to provide photos and built environment that showed what middle housing is. I think we were having a hard time providing that for transit oriented development because it was a different way to look at how we develop. I think there's three or four cities that use FAR and the rest use height, and we got to probably move back towards that way to get people to see it better. [00:24:44] Crystal Fincher: And Marcella - when it comes to the GMA climate bill, why was that so important to pass and what impact will it have moving forward? [00:24:54] Marcella Buser: Yeah, I can't speak on the exact policy, but this bill is huge. Futurewise has been working on this for the past three years and this is going to change the way that we are looking at how we develop our cities. Before this bill, cities didn't need to plan around climate change, but now we are taking that into consideration - and we know that this is one of the top issues that people in our state care about and are looking to see action on. It's great being in Washington - we are one of the climate change leaders in the country, if not the leader, in climate change action - but there's always more that needs to be done. [00:25:34] Crystal Fincher: Looking at the specifics and through the eyes of a layperson, through the eyes of someone just in the public - what would they expect to see differently and what would it do? [00:25:45] Bryce Yadon: I'll say a couple of things, and I know that Marcella heard a lot of on the ground conversations - because again, I think one thing that we did well this year was take the stories of people on the ground and turn them into our key talking points and other things. One of the things that we're probably going to see is a better thought process on what does climate resiliency look like for flooding. We know that we're going to see increased storms, we're going to see sea level rise - and sea level rise will impact, obviously, the whole Puget Sound and the coastal areas. So we're going to see better and more thoughtful development regulations and development patterns within those flood zones. We've had a law for a long time that says - You really shouldn't be building in them. But we're also seeing a larger flood zone - they're increasing as time goes on because these are more severe. So I think the first thing we'll probably see is not immediate, but more thoughtful development regulations, exit patterns, access away from areas that are eventually going to be hit with floods and other things. I think another thing that we're going to see - thinking of, say, eastern Washington right away - is the planning and understanding of where development patterns occur and likelihood of wildfires. We've all seen the devastation in California and in some of the small towns in Oregon over the last few years with devastating impacts to people's homes and properties and livelihoods lost. And I think Washington has typically done a good job at trying to create this buffer between development areas and areas that are susceptible to wildfires, but we're going to see more action in that area. And then we're also going to see better plans to prevent wildfires from expanding into these communities. So it might not be immediate on the ground impacts, but it's one of those things. And I think the second thing I want to mention, within the context of this, is with the GMA climate bill, we added - we made a change to how local jurisdictions plan for travel and transportation - requires vehicle miles traveled to be reduced over time. But in addition to that, it said - when you're doing your transportation plan, you have to plan for a multimodal environment. That means not only are you planning for vehicle traffic on roadways, but you should be planning for - What does transit look like within corridors? What does bike facilities look like in corridors? And what does pedestrian facilities look like in corridors? We know cities have a lack of pedestrian access - there's whole sections of all of our major cities that don't have access to sidewalks. And this is going to put those front and centered and say - You can't only invest in moving vehicles quickly. What you have to do is you have to invest in - safety is the number one priority for all users on the roadway. And you have to figure out how you're going to be investing in all modes of transportation instead of one. So I think what we're probably going to see immediately is a reworking of our transportation system, hopefully - and I think that'll be the most impactful. Hopefully we'll see speeds come down, vehicle crashes reduced, we'll see safety increase, we'll see access to crosswalks and pedestrian facilities that - again, a lot of jurisdictions just haven't invested in because their number one priority has been the speed of a vehicle to get through one singular intersection. So I think in the short term, that's probably going to be one of the major things we're going to see right away, within the context of what the immediate impacts are going to be, which is really exciting - something that we've been working on with partners for years. [00:29:12] Crystal Fincher: It is really exciting. And so necessary, especially through our - basically a mobility safety crisis that we are in the middle of - and hopefully people will be taking action to address that soon. So now that we're post-session doing this kind of evaluation of everything that happened and looking forward - Marcella, what is necessary in the next year, leading up to this next session, locally and in conjunction with state legislators to pass these bills and continued action as needed? What's needed to bring the coalition together around the continued action to make sure that we can continue moving forward? [00:29:51] Marcella Buser: Yeah, there's a lot that's needed. I think working through session - some of the best organizing that will set a campaign up for success happens before legislators are even back in Olympia. So really our campaign for next year is already starting now. It takes a lot of effort working in local communities and statewide, finding the volunteers that care about these issues that - again, maybe don't know how to get involved. Or maybe they really care about climate change and housing, but don't even know what land use is - they've never even heard the phrase zoning before. So making sure that we are reaching as many of those folks as possible, getting them involved, teaching them that they can be a part of the solution, and making their voice heard. And then - yeah, working with the coalition - took some time off, recovered from session, but now getting back to working with these groups, finding that common ground of - Okay, maybe we aren't working on missing middle or something else, but where do our interests coincide? And not only working with our past partners, but making sure that we are identifying new groups that want to get involved, making sure that our coalition is very diverse - that we are representing local groups and not just the Seattle area, but we are getting statewide. So there's a lot of work to do if we want to be building up the support that we need to be a really robust campaign, starting in January when bills are getting introduced. [00:31:19] Crystal Fincher: And if people are interested in joining this effort and getting involved, who can they contact and how can they find out more information? [00:31:27] Marcella Buser: Definitely get in touch with us. If you go to our website, we have ways - you can fill out a volunteer form and I'll get in touch with you to tell you more. There is a variety of ways for people to get involved. So even if you're hearing this and you're like - I don't have a ton of time for that, but I'm interested - during session, we send out weekly action alerts that take five minutes to email your legislators to vote Yes, or to sign-in Pro for hearings for bills. That's huge - that goes a long way. But we also have great opportunities for folks to get involved if you do have more time - if you want to volunteer, take on leadership, help run things like in-person lobby days. But also even if you don't have any time at all, you can always donate - and that always goes a long way with our campaigns - making sure that we have the resources needed to stay in this fight for as long as it takes to win. [00:32:20] Crystal Fincher: Thank you so much, Bryce and Marcella, for joining us today and helping to inform. Any parting words that you have, Bryce? [00:32:27] Bryce Yadon: Just thank you for your time and thanks for everybody's engagement in the last legislative session. And I just want to echo what Marcella said, which is - if you're interested, there's millions of ways, both from your local city all up to the state, and happy to help anybody who's excited to do that. [00:32:44] Crystal Fincher: All right. Thank you so much for joining us. [00:32:46] Bryce Yadon: Thank you. [00:32:47] Marcella Buser: Thanks. [00:32:47] Crystal Fincher: Thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks, which is co-produced by Shannon Cheng and Bryce Cannatelli. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks. You can catch Hacks & Wonks on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast to get the full versions of our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the episode notes. Thanks for tuning in - talk to you next time.

LINKS to ARTICLEShttps://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2022/11/26/latino-parents-students-discrimination-racism-at-north-kitsap-high-school/69673972007/https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2023/02/06/latino-parent-group-meeting-with-north-kitsap-schools-over-race-issues/69864128007/https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2023/03/10/parent-group-offers-steps-toward-safety-inclusion-in-schools/69987422007/https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2023/05/22/eliminate-racial-violencehundreds-protests-at-nksd-for-racial-discrimination-against-latino-students/70229951007/https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/opinion/readers/2023/05/20/we-have-no-confidence-in-nksd-leadership-to-handle-racism-bullying/70237118007/https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/2021/05/07/kitsap-public-health-district-declares-racism-public-health-crisis/4984962001/IN Partnership with KAIRE:Kitsap Advocating for Immigrant Rights & EqualitySince late 2022, KAIRE has supported and come alongside the grassroots efforts ofLatino/a/x students, families, and community of North Kitsap, amplifying their con-cerns and self-advocacy within North Kitsap School District (NKSD). These are broadlystated as equal access to education for English Language Learners and pursuit of aculture of belonging with teacher skills development in nondiscrimination. KAIRE andLatino/a/x community have articulated these issues and proposed specific solutions,directly communicated to NKSD in the FEB 22, 2023 "Seven Solutions" letter. Formonths, NKSD has failed to meaningfully engage with individual families or respondwith a plan to implement the proposed solutions. KAIRE supports Latino/a/xstudents, families, and community in their demand that NKSD meet themon theirterms. The table must be set by community, not by the District.Speaker 1 (00:25):Good morning. Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender healing. Um, sometimes we're talking a lot about the church, and you may have noticed a few months hiatus. Partly that is due to me, Danielle Rueb, Castillejo, doing this on my own, and also just in February, having a town hall and gathering the community together, which I want to talk more about and, and which this situation with the school board has not been resolved yet. So sadly, that has taken an, an honorable place of, of my time and I'm continuing to work towards that. But I thought it might be helpful to tell a little bit of the history of how that got started and, um, what happened for me and why the meeting happened in November of 2022. If you're following along, I'll put some links to the Kitsap Sun articles, uh, in the notes.  But if you're following along with the story, there was an original meeting in November 22nd, 2022 at North Kitsap High School in the library. It was me, my husband, uh, a couple of community members I didn't really know very well. And then we had like seven to 10 days, I can't remember exactly, I could look it up in my notes to invite, uh, community members, la Latino community members. But there was things and events that preceded, um, preceded that meeting time in November. And I think those, that's part of the history that's important to know over the last three years and actually since maybe even like 2015 and right leading up to Trump's election, there were so many things that happened in the school that Luis and I, my husband, my partner and I, we just really let them slide, uh, microaggressions with the kids, bullying comments at school.  And, you know, we semi address them, semi didn't address them, but just kind of trusted the school district to be following up on those issues. In 2016 when Trump was elected, I got a call from a friend and she said, Hey, we're not doing the celebration of Guadalupe. Everybody's afraid to meet, you know, Trump made president. This is a scary time. And if you're not familiar, what it is, uh, of, uh, December is the celebration of the Virgin of Guadalupe, the que that app appeared in Mexico and she's called the que de Guadalupe. And, and so I won't go into that history, but to celebrate that there's a mass, uh, there's singing, there's a process of communion, and then there's a celebration afterwards. So like the kids would dance, like sometimes there's mariachi, um, there's professional dancers that would come all, all the way to this little town here in Paul's bow.  And my kids, we got four little kids, they were always invited to participate by one of my dear friends. So I was assuming this event would happened. I got a call from my friend like, hey, it's not going to happen. And, and there's a lot of fear in the community, and we said, no, like, let's make it happen. Let's move in solidarity, let's do this thing. And I even had a little op-ed, uh, published in the Seattle Times about, uh, this event. So we had, we had the celebration of Guadalupe. It was amazing, amazing food. And Trump, uh, his presidency continued for the next four years, obviously, and 2020 hit and we were in election season and then suddenly it was also pandemic season. And so we were all at home. And it, it quickly became clear to me, um, just in my own personal family situation and with the other situations that I knew of in the community, that not everything was equal.  Not everything was going to be fair staying at home. When we first were at home, we had this, we didn't actually pay for internet at our house. I was in grad school at the time. I was trying to graduate 2020. I was going to graduate. We had this little hotspot we had bought on Verizon and we paid for a certain amount of like, gigs of internet per month. And we only turned it on when we really needed it. And we, we tried to limit our data too. So all of a sudden, imagine you got like four children at home, husband's unemployed, I need to do grad school. And we're all freaking sitting around our table cuz we live in a small house and, and we're trying to do schoolwork and we're, we got this hotspot running. Um, that's, that's an example of something that happened. And it, it took a few months, I think for us to get internet out to our house.  Speaker 1 (05:14):Um, just, they were backed up and whatnot. But I actually had a friend offer to pay for our internet. And that's what helped us get us through what was during this time that things became even more apparent in the school system. To me, various things happened to my kids, even being online. We struggled in a rural area to, um, my kids struggled to, when they would turn their homework in online, it would show that it was turned in on our side, but at the school side, it would look like they hadn't turned in any homework. And so, for instance, one of my children, it, it showed like complete zeros everywhere and being in grad school and all the stress we had, I I, I didn't pay attention till I got a letter and someone's like, like, yo, your kid's failing class, so that's not like my child. So we contacted the high school, um, a math teacher was super helpful and an English teacher was so helpful and they were like, look, like we think something's wrong here, like, what's going on with your kid?  Speaker 1 (06:21):So it was a combination of factors, combination of internet, combination of overwhelm in a house where you have kids with different learning styles and needs and we didn't have access to separate rooms and the internet capacity to do that. And that's when I think it just picked up. We had some bus incident bullying with my daughter being called effing Dora. Prior to this we had an incident at the middle school where my son was targeted and pulled in and said they had a video of him, uh, like basically like messing with gas caps of cars and siphoning gas. And when he said like, Hey, can you check the attendance? They're like, no, we have this video. So we had other experiences. Like I said, I, I just won't forget one of the teachers who I won't name here, just the callousness, the lack of engagement and uh, lack of understanding. And we didn't say anything about it. I'm not in charge of anybody else's how they're responding in a meeting. I just wanted to help my son get through, you know, this school year.  Speaker 1 (07:30):So as you can imagine, it was hard. It was really hard. And uh, fall of 2020 was brutal. And 2021 was just as hard. So things began to build up for us. Had trouble getting this particular teacher to accept assignments from my son, had trouble communicating with this person and I was working full-time. My husband ended up having to quit his job because we could not manage four children in school and all of us absent all the adults absent from the home. Of course, of course not. It's not meant, it's not meant to be like that. My husband would go into the school district or the school and ask for things either at the middle school or high school. Like he would often encounter a barrier just at, at the front desk. I mean, he's very dark brown and curly hair and speaks English, but you know, he has an accent I can understand and many, many people understand him. But, but in that frame, it became really hard for him to access the help he needed for our kids. Then I would have to send an email and when I would send an email, then there would be a response, but response to him, no. So this thing snowballed. Like we tried to have a meeting with the superintendent, tried to get this scheduled. It got put off until fall of 2022 September.  Speaker 1 (08:59):So we get a meeting scheduled, we get it on the calendar. I'm a licensed mental health therapist associate in Washington. So I have like clients scheduled, like, you know, scheduled weeks out. They have their time during the day. So when we scheduled this appointment with the superintendent, I made sure to be careful of my schedule, arranged it around her, and the day before she changes it by an hour. And that messed with me and my schedule and my client. But I said, you know what, I, I need to do this for my child. So I moved my client, I was able to move. My client showed up to the meeting. I think it was like an hour before the meeting, the superintendent emails like, oh, sorry, emergency came up. I won't be there.  Speaker 1 (09:43):We're talking like a year since the first incident happened. Over a year. Show up to the meeting. I had some community witnesses there. My husband and I were able to tell our story. There was some response, some compassion. Um, and outta that meeting, a principal of the high school invited, invited us to gather some of the families from the school. We set a date. The first day didn't work. And then we landed on November 22nd. It was the week of Thanksgiving last year. And I was like, man, I don't know if anybody's gonna come. And I was honestly afraid to invite people. I didn't know if other people, I knew other people were talking about issues, but I didn't know. I didn't know what I didn't know. We put the word out, text messages, kind of like called friends, but it was last minute. There wasn't a lot of notice. There was there was like, we made like a handmade flyer. Um, not a lot of social media. If you go back and look through my social media, there just wasn't a lot at that time.  Speaker 1 (10:48):Show up to the school. The meeting was supposed to start at six 30. I show up around six and I'm getting calls at like, people are like, Hey, where are you at? I'm like, Hey, the meeting doesn't start yet. And people are like, Hey, we're here. So we go in the meeting. Um, it becomes really apparent that we wanted to talk through some stories but also move towards solutions. We really wanted to move towards solutions in this first meeting, but what became really apparent is that the racism and the discrimination and the stories of the people that attended, which was somewhere between 40 and 50, it was so significant that we were not gonna get through just like three stories and people were gonna feel cared for almost three hours later. We ended this meeting. We did not get to solutions. We, we committed at that meeting to get to solutions, but we didn't get to them. So much trauma, so much harm happened in the last few years. And I'm not talking just North Kitsap High school people showed up that attended other schools in our districts because they had not had a way to communicate where, where they felt safe and heard.  Speaker 1 (11:57):And I left that meeting and for days I just was tired and sick and my body was achy. It's something, you know, it's kind of like one thing when you know your family's experiencing discrimination, but it's another thing when you hear the discrimination happening on all fronts with other families. And there were kids in this meeting, teenagers, and you know, when teenagers are in these meetings, they are normally like, uh, they're like looking at their phones, they're like texting, whatever. Like no one was doing that. No one. And so I just wanna point out that this is the history, this is where this came from. I didn't know these families had these stories. I had heard rumors and I wanted to hear from them, but I didn't know what we were opening up. And it wasn't just stories about Latinx families, it was stories about what happened to African American folks in school, what happened to native folks, what happened to Asian American folks in school?  Speaker 1 (13:02):There were stories, there were stories about people feeling suicidal, people having their mental health affected stories about not knowing how to apply to college, not having the resources to do it. And I won't repeat the trauma stories here because some of them are documented in the news articles in the notes. But what I wanna say is this movement in North Kitsap school district has a history. And it has a history far bigger than my family. It has a history far bigger than my kids. And also because we're exposing the history, there's blowback, there's payback, there's slander, there's gossip, there's other people like pushing in because justice has been stalled for so long. Equal access to education for so long, discrimination has just been a given. It's been a given. Racialized comments and stereotypes. I mean it's a given.  Speaker 1 (14:03):And I think at the beginning I had some naive idea that when we would come back to solutions in which we did get to solutions in February when we didn't hear back from the school district that somehow those solutions, they would, the school district would see them as proactive, as good, as caring, as like we're invested in our community, but that's not how it's gone. So I wanna tell more of that story later, but I just wanted to share the history of how November came to be. Some of the details of how, how it got planned, which was barely any plan at all. Not even like planning for an official interpreter. Thank God some people just showed up that could help with that. Because I can tell you that Luis and I were beat like so tired at the end of that. And I wanted to share where I've been for the last few months, been involved in organizing bridge building, doing a lot of apologizing, a lot of learning, a lot of crying, a lot of frustration and a lot of like working in systems that are actually not meant to prevent racial violence or discrimination.  Speaker 1 (15:15):They're actually meant to prevent equal access to education. These systems aren't looking for solutions. And so when we walk in with solutions, they're like, what the heck is this? But it, I don't think it has to be that way. I think our county can be different and that may be a fool's errand. I don't know. Sometimes I think it's very foolish. Hope is like that. It can feel very foolish. But I wanna acknowledge that there's been amazing community support and unity. We don't always think the same. We don't always have the right way to get there. We don't know how to get there. We have different problems sometimes we don't like the person we're organizing with. That's all true. But the fact is, we want something better for our kids. We want our kids to have access to education. We want our kids to live in a place where they feel like they belong and they don't need to resort to suicide and gun violence and they can come to us for help with anxiety and mental health issues, depression, sadness. I think we can't agree on those things and that's why I'm here in my community and that's why I've stayed because I believe that as humans we do share those things in common. And um, I hope you'll follow along on the next few podcasts as we tell more of these stories. And um, I'm just honored to be able to share a bit of this history with you today and go ahead and check out the notes. I'll talk to you soon. Bye.  

In this episode we feature Dr. Molly Darr, the newest addition the WSU Extension Forestry Team and Extension Forester for Kitsap, Whatcom, Jefferson, and Clallam Counties. Molly discusses her previous work with the Women Owning Woodlands program, an effort that supports learning opportunities in forestry for female landowners, and what her plans are to keep the program going in Washington. To reach Molly, email her at molly.darr@wsu.edu https://www.womenowningwoodlands.net/

From the small town of Seabeck, Washington and the outter banks of North Carolina to stages at Tootsie's in Nashville and Watershed Festival, Joel Gibson Jr. has had an incredible start to his career. He stops by to talk about Tailgate tours playing on a floating stage and the struggle of recording an album during a global pandemic. He shares his favorite food and what two clothing items are the most important to a PNW'er. Keep up with Joel - https://www.joelgibsonjrmusic.com/Healing Harmonies - https://www.cancercarenorthwest.com/healing-harmonies-benefit-concert/Get free Tee Party gear! www.teepartypodcast.com/free-stuffCreditsMusic - Jesse QuandtVoice Over - J. GwinnHost - Ty PisaniSounds - ZapSplat

"There are a lot of actions this killer took. Stabbing her 18 times, setting the house on fire.... They took additional measures that weren't necessary to kill her, a level of overkill."In the early morning hours of 30 April 2008, authorities in Kitsap County, Washington were contacted by residents in Port Orchard. There, along the 1100 block of Sidney Avenue, a fire had broken out, and just before 4:00 AM that Wednesday, the flames had become evident to sleeping neighbors.Firefighters quickly put out the flames and discovered the remains of the woman that lived inside, 47-year-old Linda Malcom. A Navy veteran, Linda had lived in the home for over a decade, and was prepared to move to nearby Bremerton just days later. Yet, before she could take this next step in her life, an unknown subject had stabbed her to death and then set her longtime home on fire...Special thanks to Jennifer Bucholtz and George Jared, who have taken on Linda's case as their next case to highlight. Jennifer and George have highlighted similar stories in the past, helping some cases find resolution, and hope to do the same for Linda's story. If you'd like to follow their progress, please follow along in their Facebook group, "Unsolved Murder of Linda Malcom," which can be found at the following link:https://www.facebook.com/groups/805715740615538If you know anything - or think you may know anything - you are encouraged to reach out to Jennifer and George, or can directly contact the Port Orchard Police Department at the following:Phone: (360) 876-1700Email: police@portorchardwa.govResearch, writing, hosting, and production by Micheal Whelan"Unresolved" themes composed by Ailsa TravesLearn more about this podcast at http://unresolved.meIf you would like to support this podcast and others, consider heading to https://www.patreon.com/unresolvedpod to become a Patron or Producer

DanielleGood morning. Welcome to the ARise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, agenda and healing. My name is Danielle Castillejo, and I'm coming to you solo today. Uh, it's the year 2023 and I don't know how many of you have actually looked at the date and been like, what happened to the time? I know. As 2023 started and the last year since 2020 arrived, I, I had some trepidation and I still have that trepidation. So stepping into the new year and there are gonna be some guests coming up and some podcasts coming up. But living in the reality of post pandemic life meant that over Christmas break this year, uh, my kids out at Christmas break, there was a lot of sickness that went through our home. We still haven't tested positive for Covid. Um, we didn't test positive for flu, but we were diagnosed with a cough.And that cough actually took out my entire voice for over a week. So I'm just aware that I think during the pandemic, there was this sense, like in the thick of it, in 2020, in 2021, that we were in this state of the world where sickness was alive. It was active and literally physical sickness that would threaten our health. And then the racial disparities and the racial uprising that these were things that were able to come to light. And I think there was a sense of, and I remember talking about it with Maggie and talking about it with other friends, like, actually, we're not in post-trauma right now. This is an ongoing thing that's happening. So, I think one of the things I wondered stepping into 2023 was whether or not I would feel that we were post pandemic and it was interesting to become or get kind of a big illness at the end of 2022.I remember thinking, I wonder what Covid feels like and having some panic around, is my my throat sore because I never had that experience? Or is this cough? Can I breathe? Just the panic around that was still very present and I haven't experienced covid 19, I wasn't infected by it. Um, so I, I think that that was just an interesting response to me. And as 2023 started, I had this feeling that I was just going to move into the year slow. That's what I told myself. And there's no criticism or judgment. A lot of people make words for the year or gain some kind of resolution or goals or setting standards. And I do actually periodically evaluate where I'm at and what I'm doing and things I'm working toward, towards and moving towards.And I just have never been able to write a word down or set up New Year's resolutions. I always feel that if I do that, it will fall shorter. I will fail. So it's kind of a little internal battle with myself, but I, I do think I'm walking into 2023 with a sense of deliberateness and maybe a little bit of fear and a like very keenly aware that there are so many things about a new year that I don't know. I think in the past, like when I was in grad school, pre-grad school, there were just things that seemed for sure, it seemed for sure that the kids would go back to school. It seemed for sure that I would be able to show up to my classes. It seemed for sure that we would have work, and all of those things are in flux.Not that they're shutting down schools anymore, but will we be well enough to do this? Will we feel well enough? Will we feel safe? And I, I do wonder if we're in this transition phase from pandemic to post pandemic, and I still don't know if we're out of some of those mentalities last weekend and had the great honor and privilege of going to the Seattle School and listening to a dear friend, um, Phil Allen Jr. Talk about his book Open Wounds and the Prophetic Lens. He was a keynote speaker and there were so many people I haven't seen in a long time, or maybe I've just seen over Zoom. And so I found myself, you know, people walking up to me wanting to be social, starting a conversation, and we're engaging over just a certain topic. And as they're talking to me, someone else walks up and says Hi.(04:45):And I didn't know the social cues. I didn't know how to relate to the person that was, I was in deep conversation with. And that was in an instant. Hmm. And I didn't know how to switch gears and pay attention to the next person. I'm so outta practice. I mean, I've been getting together with friends and obviously talking with my family, but in a situation where there's many people that I would like to connect with or don't realize that I would like to connect with, I was just like, socially, I felt socially inept. I did not know what I was doing. I was jumping from conversation to conversation. I was a little bit mortified that I was allowing myself to be interrupted when I was having a good conversation with one person. And so I'm just aware that like, I don't know what to do in that situation. I don't have practice at it. I have to reengage somehow. Um, I'm outta practice. So there's just so many layers to coming out of a period of isolation. Maybe you weren't someone that went into isolation. Maybe you, you were able to have like a pod or people that you related with. ButI think there's something that still feels in the air to me that feels siloed, that maybe when I walk to the grocery store and I've seen it with other people, like people that know each other, that I know, know each other, and they don't say hi. I'm like, what is going on there? What is happening for us in our individual spaces and the places that we have maintained connection? How have we been able to do that? Is it by miracle? Is it through intentional effort? Um, I don't know. I, I don't know the answer. Been thinking a lot about how the younger parts of ourselves have been both likely activated by those periods of isolation. And how, what do we do with that now? I think, I mean, I think, I mean, just even in those conversations in that group, just feeling very young and very excited and very happy to be with everybody and literally not knowing what to do.And do I spiral into shame and feel like, well, I can't enter another social, so social situation again, no. I mean, I'm gonna do it. Um, but the temptation is to beat myself up a little bit, if I'm honest. So I mean, that is not the most serious of scenarios that have happened, but it is one scenario that has happened and I keep, I keep returning to it. Um, and this new year also brought about, uh, some changes in my family. Uh, we had, uh, a close family member, uh, like a second mother to my husband pass away, and she passed away this week suddenly.(07:51):And I say suddenly, but I, we all knew that she was sick. But there was some, I think, reluctance to engage, uh, the despair that would come if we acknowledged that, that she was close to death. I, I felt it in my own body. I felt it in conversations with my husband and my family. And then when she died, it was like, everything just paused and I felt paralyzed. And I looked at the calendar, actually 2023, and my husband looked at me. He's like, I don't know if 2023 is gonna be okay. Like, I don't know if this is gonna be a good year. And so again, I just returned to that, like living in the unknown. And as the grief has settled in around this dear woman, I have to admit, I haven't really wanted to engage it. I've pushed it away. I've laughed. I'd made jokes, I've gone out to eat, and maybe that is my way of grieving.I think it just didn't fit for me that there would be more grief in this year. I, I, I think I was a little bit like our family. Like we know there's some sickness in the air. We know there's still a lingering tension. We know things aren't well, and yet I didn't wanna touch it. I didn't want to. And I, you know, I've been, as you know, my family is split apart for the moment because, you know, part of family members are in Mexico grieving, and then I'm here, uh, holding down the fort. I just, I think about that. I think about the in between, between spaces. I think about the spaces between life and death and how often those are just these tenuous spaces that can go either way at any moment for a any reason.(09:53):And so, 2023 E even though we're saying, and like, I'm feeling like it's post pandemic, I just, it feels like something shifted in the air a few years ago. And there's going to be a, like a more living into this tension I haven't ever done or recorded my thoughts in a podcast on my own before. And I decided to do it because I really felt like it was important to kick the year off with some, for me, just being honest of where I am and recognizing those limitations and, and limiting that tension, I think forces me to, to acknowledge the limitations and find, like search for some way to bless them, search for some way to understand them.(10:48):Yeah, the tension between not knowing and knowing between the joy of being able to be together, not knowing how to do it. The tension of there is still going to be death in 2023, and there will still be life. And, and what do I do with those younger places in me that wanna cry? I wanna laugh, wanna, wanna ignore, wanna move on quickly or wanna, or just want to like run around at the park and swing on swings. I don't, I don't know what it is about stepping into a new year, but every year for a while, January has felt long. And I think I'm appreciating that. I'm appreciating it as a time for me to hibernate and also warm up, warm up to a year with my family, warm up to the gift of, of more space to live and to breathe and to be with those that are dying and to be with myself as things die in my own life or come to life too.(12:05):So, I don't know if you're li if you listen to this, like where you find yourself today, where, where you're at, if you're in that social awkward space of like, if you've moved past that, if you got it together, if you do find yourself like, hey, I got sick again. Maybe you got covid again. Maybe you got the flu. Maybe you got a cough like my family. Or, or maybe someone did die in your family and, and after everything that survived over the last three years, you're like, damn, why? Now? I think that's what I was thinking and why this good person, why now? Or why this job? Why now something that I've worked for? Or why is this system not working out the way I wanted it to? Or why do I have to return and fight for justice again in 2023? I thought we did that. I thought, I thought we moved something. Hmm. Excuse me. If you find yourself there, you're not alone. If you find yourself asking why or you find yourself repeating or you find yourself on a track and not able to embrace those younger parts of you or to that you find yourself in shame, you're not alone.(13:23):And so I, I wanna I wanna just normalize that. And, and then I wanna, I do wanna encourage you to, to, to find community, to be in community, to reach out to people, to say hi to the person that's making your coffee, to commit to socially awkward moments and laugh about them later. To send an email after you're in a socially awkward moment and say, Hey, I don't know what happened, but I let our conversation get interrupted. And I really do wanna finish a talk with you to allow yourself to cry when one more negative thing happens. Maybe it's a job layoff, maybe it's a death. Maybe it's someone's diagnosed with cancer. Maybe it's long-term covid to allow that one more chance to shed some tears. I don't think that we're out of the grieving process of the pandemic. I don't, I don't think that, I don't think that. And I think it will keep, keep showing up in different ways. Um, those are my thoughts for the beginning of 2023. And in the next week or so, you're going to hear about a town hall that's been organized across ethnic and, uh, diverse communities in my county and the town hall is toBring, bring awareness and advocacy and change into our school system. I, I don't know if we can change things, but we are going to try. And so that's, that's one of the next things you're gonna be hearing, you'll be hearing from more community members and I really look forward to being with you. We're also gonna have a couple podcasts on spiritual abuse and the intersection of that, and racial trauma and sexual trauma. Um, yeah, so I'm excited about this new year in the podcast season and, you know, if you've signed on to listen and you've been so gracious as to download this podcast, I just wanna say thank you. Um, I know Maggie and I have been blown away by the support and the feedback and the, the ways we've engaged our community through, um, making and forming and using a podcast. So, uh, happy New Year and I will catch you in a week or two.          Announcements

On this Hacks & Wonks week-in-review, political consultant and host Crystal Fincher is joined by long-time communications and political strategist and Chair of Sierra Club Seattle, Robert Cruickshank! They cover Governor Inslee's State of the State address, the legislature's responsibility to provide urgently needed resources for public education, plans to address our state's housing crisis in the 2023 legislative session, multiple controversies involving Walgreens, Seattle Public Schools suing social media companies, and why the "refusal" of services by people experiencing homelessness is largely a reflection of those services' inability to meet their needs. Governor Inslee's State of the State address focused on housing and homelessness, following a mandate from voters in last year's elections to solve with progressive reforms. Crystal and Robert discuss how our state's housing crisis is fueling displacement and homelessness, and talk about proposals pending in the legislature that could help. Alongside this, Washington's public education is straining under a lack of funding, and needs more resources to hire essential teachers and public health professionals. Both housing and education could be better solved by the legislature if they enact progressive revenue, such as a wealth tax, to fund new programs and battle a potential revenue shortfall. A debacle occurred over the preservation of a Seattle Walgreens building that's been designated as a landmark. The council reversed a decision last week and significantly limited new construction in order to preserve parts of the building, which will limit the ability to develop the remaining property into much needed housing, and seems misaligned with the city's stated goals of rapidly increasing housing stock and reducing harmful emissions. A Walgreens executive also made news when they had to apologize for overstating the impacts of shoplifting on its stores. Exaggerated crime narratives like these, pushed by candidates and media outlets, were used to undermine progressive reforms in recent elections, even though they were never supported by real data. Returning to education, Seattle Public Schools announced their plan to sue various social media companies for the negative impacts on students' mental health caused by social platforms. While social media has a role to play in our national youth mental health crisis, some students and parents argue the district's resources would be better spent on acquiring more direct mental health support for students. Finally, Crystal and Robert look at some excellent reporting from Tobias Coughlin-Bogue at Real Change News, explaining why services are refused by people experiencing homelessness. Refuting narratives that people living on the streets don't want shelter, the data show that in fact, when offered private, non-congregate shelter and housing, they largely accept it. Congregate shelters that lack privacy and security are often unable to meet the needs of people experiencing homelessness, often lacking the ability for people to bring their possessions, partners or pets with them, and are most frequently cited as creating harmful or negative experiences for the people who use them. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Find the host, Crystal Fincher on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's co-host Robert at @cruickshank.   Resources “Seattle's I-135 Social Housing Initiative with Tye Reed and Camille Gix from the House Our Neighbors Campaign” - Hacks & Wonks   “Gov. Inslee leans into housing and homelessness in 2023 State-of-the-State address” by Dyer Oxley from KUOW   “Washington Should Tax the Rich to Save Our Public Schools” by Robert Cruickshank from The Stranger    “How WA's legislature is addressing the housing crisis in 2023” by Josh Cohen from Crosscut   “In Reversal, Council Poised to Preserve Landmarked Drive-Through Walgreen's” by Erica C. Barnett from Publicola   “Walgreens executive: "Maybe we cried too much" about shoplifting, thefts” by Herb Scribner & Hope King from Axios   “Seattle Public Schools Sue Social Media Companies for Detrimental Effects on Youth” by Vee Hua from South Seattle Emerald   “Seattle Public Schools sue TikTok, Meta for youth mental health crisis” by Julie Calhoun from KING5   “Service refusal is not a myth, but it is surrounded by them” by Tobias Coughlin-Bogue from Real Change News   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I am Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington state through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Be sure to subscribe to get the podcast, to get the full versions of our Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, the most helpful thing you can do is leave a review wherever you listen to Hacks & Wonks. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. If you missed our Tuesday midweek show, we had a great discussion with Tye Reed and Camille Gix from the House Our Neighbors campaign. Tye and Camille told us about the origins of the campaign, what the I-135 initiative - the Seattle Social Housing Initiative - they're championing accomplishes, and how they plan on getting the votes for the February 14th ballot. Find it in your podcast feed or on our website. Today we are continuing our Friday almost-live shows where we review the news of the week with a co-host. Welcome back to the program, friend of the show - one of the smartest political minds on the West Coast and today's co-host - Chair of Sierra Club Seattle, longtime communications and political strategist, Robert Cruickshank. [00:01:32] Robert Cruickshank: Oh, Crystal - thank you for having me. I think you're one of the smartest people in Seattle and Washington State politics, so you're the one who deserves the accolades. [00:01:43] Crystal Fincher: I appreciate that, but - decade and counting - you've always been on target. So I think we will start out talking about what the Executive of the State of Washington has laid out as his priorities as we start this legislative session - what he's calling on the Legislature to do and pass and the path that he's setting for the state. What stood out to you about this? [00:02:08] Robert Cruickshank: I think Governor Inslee is going big and bold on homelessness and housing. A $4 billion housing bond to build affordable housing - to help address not just the homelessness crisis but the crisis at the lower end of the housing market - is a big step to take and I think it's the right one to take. We haven't seen the state do anything like this in quite some time, but it's a recognition that for too many decades now, we haven't been building enough housing, haven't been building enough housing of all kinds at all levels. And what that is doing is fueling displacement, fueling gentrification, and fueling homelessness. I think Governor Inslee's taken a look around the country - he could even look just south of the river to Oregon where the politics of housing and homelessness really seemed to threaten Democrats - but Democrats like Karen Bass and Tina Kotek have stepped up and said, No, we're going to lead on this. And I think Inslee's taken a page from that and recognized that that's where he needs to be to do an effective job of governing Washington state. Combined with the legislation we're seeing from Jessica Bateman bringing the missing middle bill back and other things pending in the Legislature, it's shaping up to be a potentially big, big year for finally addressing Washington state's housing crisis, which then feeds homelessness. We'll see what happens in the Legislature - we have, though, in past years seen big proposals get whittled down, but I'm hopeful based on things I'm reading and hearing from legislators that this might actually survive. And obviously it has to go to the ballot - voters have to approve an affordable housing bond in the fall, but polling from Stuart Elway and others shows that it's likely to pass. So it's an exciting start. [00:03:43] Crystal Fincher: It is an exciting start, and it looks like the state is ready for this - both based on the polling and on action that's been taken across the state for quite some time. There's been a question from a lot of people - certainly in the Seattle region and from leaders in our Legislature - wondering, Hey, is the state ready? that we've heard in the past several sessions. And in that time we've seen cities like Spokane, Olympia, Tacoma take action on increasing their housing supply - really looking at increasing middle housing in those cities. It looks like other areas of the state have been more ready and willing to take action than even the Seattle area. So it looks like there's a broad recognition across the state that this is a crisis and that people are expecting action. Another area where bold action was on the agenda is certainly in terms of gun reform and gun laws. Inslee spoke about requiring permits for people having guns, requiring training, and moving forward on a lot of the steps that they've been talking about before - certainly they've taken action - but the call to go further and addressing violence and tragic outcomes from guns is high on his agenda. [00:05:06] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, and I think it's time - in fact a long past time - for the state to finally enact an assault weapons ban. California's had one for decades. Illinois just passed one this week. It's been pending in the Legislature for some time, but it's been Democrats who've been hesitant to act - maybe afraid of how it might play in swing districts - but I think polling has shown pretty consistently the public understands that these weapons should not be in the hands of the general public. Inslee's called for it, Attorney General Bob Ferguson has called for it. This should be finally the year, especially after Democrats did well in an election year that they were not expected to do well in here in Washington state. It should give them the confidence that they can do bold things like this that are also popular. There's no reason to hesitate, but we'll see what happens in the Legislature. Will they get cold feet yet again and fail to pass an assault weapons ban even though it's something the public really, really wants? [00:05:59] Crystal Fincher: It is absolutely something the public really wants. I do wonder what impact events in Oregon are going to have. Certainly they have taken an initiative in moving forward that's been challenged in the courts and is currently going through that process - we'll see if that has an impact here. I did appreciate his broader words on public safety, which were more forward-thinking and more in-line with what the data say is effective in reducing crime - and the acknowledgement that public safety is so much broader and bigger than policing. That behavioral health, that addressing root causes, that addressing poverty is actually critical to the longterm safety and resilience of our communities. In addition to protecting abortion rights - which we'll see how much of a fight Republicans put up against this. This is certainly an area where they did not connect with voters in the November elections that we just saw, but they do still seem willing to push some of that legislation to ban abortion in various ways and to fight against what may be proposed, so that's going to be very interesting to see. What did he have to say about education? [00:07:10] Robert Cruickshank: He had a little bit to say - not a great deal. The governor's budget proposes some money to help recruit and retain teachers - it's part of a larger workforce problem, but there's been a teacher shortage since the late 2010s. He has a little bit of money to spend on special education - I think he's proposing around $150 million statewide for that, which is somewhat helpful. But the need to provide special education services is much greater than the state funds. The state currently caps the amount of money it will give districts for special education funding at 13% of the overall student population. So what that means is - in a district like Seattle, about 15.5% of students receive some sort of special education services. The Legislature says, Sorry, we're only funding up to 13%. It's also an issue in smaller districts - rural districts face this cap as well. It's absurd that the Legislature tells districts we will only pay for a small fraction of the special education services your students might need. And that creates incentives for districts to try to deny services to students. And coming out of a pandemic, it's worse than ever because students bring new mental health issues to schools, there are longstanding special education needs, disabled students who have other issues that weren't getting addressed and are now getting recognized - but their districts don't want to pay for it, so they find ways to not provide the service. And it's really a root problem at the Legislature. So while it's nice that the governor does have a little bit for education, it seems that overall the Democratic leadership in Olympia isn't really taking what is their constitutional paramount duty as seriously as they need to, even as districts across the state - large and small, urban and rural, east and west - are facing a growing number of cuts in the coming years. This was never supposed to happen under the McCleary decision, but it is because the Legislature got away with underfunding schools overall. [00:09:08] Crystal Fincher: And you, in fact, had an op-ed - a column - in The Stranger this week, talking about what needs to happen to save our public schools. What did you go through in that? [00:09:19] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, so the Legislature was sued 15 years ago by a family from Chimacum, which is near Port Townsend. And the McCleary family brought the suit after levies failed and classes were cut, teachers laid off, and saying - This is a denial of our constitutional right to an amply, fully-funded public education. The State Supreme Court agreed - ordered the Legislature to fully fund our schools. The Legislature hemmed and hawed, dragged their feet, eventually held in contempt by the Court. And finally, in 2017, they passed a new education funding system designed to comply with the McCleary decision. But at the time, Senate Republicans were in the majority. And they demanded a solution that relied on the largest state property tax hike in history and that also didn't fully fund schools. And at the time, there were articles quoting the superintendent of Seattle, of Tacoma – this is the summer of 2017 – saying, This is going to underfund special education services, it's going to underfund our ability to retain teachers, it's going to underfund our ability to serve multi-language learners. All of that has happened. And now we're at a point where districts across the state are facing cuts. Seattle - in two years - faces $150 million in deficit. Chimacum, the district that started it all, where the McCleary family is - is running on reserves. They're running about a $1 million/year deficit and they're likely to face cuts next year. I saw on social media this week - a parent in Everett posting that the Everett district sent out a survey to families basically saying, We have to make budget cuts. What is more important to you? Safety and security at schools, your students' mental health, after-school programs, student electives in high school? And it's - this is not what was supposed to happen. You can look at Marysville, just north of Everett, where levies failed twice in 2022 and they had to make $13 million in cuts. The entire point of the McCleary decision was to end reliance on local levies for basic education. That hasn't happened. And last week when the legislators had their preview sessions - meetings with the media - and they would be asked about this, it turns out it was the Republicans who said public education was a big issue for them and that they were going to focus on it. Now their solutions are all terrible - they want to slash taxes, they want to privatize schools, give everyone vouchers - it's a disaster. But at least they recognize there's a problem that they have to respond to. Democratic legislators either didn't mention it at all or did only in passing and saying, We've done a lot of great work over the years, but there may be a little bit here we have to do in 2023. It just struck me and struck others in the media, like Danny Westneat at The Seattle Times, that - where is the Democratic leadership on public education right now, especially going into a year that a biennial budget is written - so the budget over the next two years is written in this session - coming off of a successful election where Democrats did well. They have a mandate. There's a wealth tax that Senator Noel Frame and others have proposed that could go quite a long way in fully funding our public schools. You could even make it large enough - affecting no more than 2,000 taxpayers, for example - that you can fund our public schools better and even have a little bit of a cut in the property tax to your average Washingtonian. This would be sensible to do, but it's unclear if the Democratic majority in Olympia is going to go down that road - that road is wide open for them and it's just mystifying why they're not interested in taking it. [00:12:48] Crystal Fincher: This was highlighted so much by the number of teacher strikes that we have had and them all reinforcing, Hey, we need more funding for special education. We need to address the shortage of teachers, the shortage of staff - even bus drivers are in short supply in many districts. A lot of those frontline workers who are serving our kids in our public schools are being stretched to the point of breaking. And so I certainly hope to see decisive action. And in our battleground districts where a lot of times we hear, Hey, we want to take action on this, but it's going to be pushing too far and we're going to be jeopardizing our members in these districts that are swing districts. And we saw them make the case for the value of public education - funding public education, standing strong with teachers unions - during the campaign and voters agreed and said yes. So the mandate and expectation to take action is absolutely there. [00:13:55] Robert Cruickshank: It is. And there's polling from the Northwest Progressive Institute that shows - taxing the rich to fund public education is popular in every region of the state, and that includes Eastern Washington. You can look at the swing districts in the 42nd in Whatcom County, the 26th district in Pierce and Kitsap counties, and those are just a few examples where taxing the rich to fund our schools is popular. People get it, they like it, they want it. And the Legislature did deliver finally in 2021 by passing a capital gains tax. That's a good start. And it's notable to me that the effort to repeal that fizzled last year when it became very clear to its backers that they would lose if they went to the ballot. So the Legislature has a mandate, they also have the responsibility. I liken the paramount duty clause of the Constitution to someone being given a job description - they start a new position and in big, bold capital letters at the top of that job description says, this is the number one thing you must focus on. For the Legislature, that parallel is a paramount duty clause of the State Constitution that says amply and fully funding public schools is your paramount number one duty. And it's not happening right now. And I support all the other investments they're planning to make - and they're all connected - there are a number of students who are homeless, students whose families experience intermittent housing insecurity, students who have mental health needs, students who have health care needs and their families have health care needs. All this is connected. So we're not saying fund public education at the expense of anything else, but pass a wealth tax that gives us billions of dollars more a year to start funding all these things, including public education. [00:15:37] Crystal Fincher: That's certainly on the docket as our legislative session just began. Is there anything else that you're keeping your eye on as we start the journey through the next hundred days or so of legislation that's hopefully going to impact the state positively? [00:15:52] Robert Cruickshank: I think there's another reason to look closely at a wealth tax - and that is we have to look at the revenue forecasts for the state. Gavin Newsom, down in California earlier this week, announced his budget for the year - $22 billion shortfall due to declines in the stock market. Washington is a little more insulated because we aren't as dependent on stock market revenue, but that is one of the first things that comes back - is revenue from taxes based on the stock market. If there is a recession this year or if unemployment rises - and it's starting to rise with tech layoffs - you start to see spending go down, and that affects sales tax receipts, it affects business and operations tax receipts, and maybe even property taxes. So we'll see what the revenue forecasts show in a couple weeks. If it shows potential deficits, then I think that makes a case for a wealth tax all the more important and all the stronger, because then you have to prevent cuts from happening as well as do these new investments that are still needed. [00:16:51] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. Switching gears a little bit - we saw two interesting developments this week - both, oddly, involving Walgreens. One, regarding a preservation debacle in the City of Seattle. What happened here? [00:17:08] Robert Cruickshank: It is a debacle. So there's a drive-through Walgreens on Denny - and I think it's at 6th or 7th, it's not far from the Space Needle - and it is in an old bank building that got landmarked a few years ago, even though it is not that unique. It turns out that almost every city in Washington state, even some smaller ones east of the mountains, have the same exact building dating to the 1950s. It's old, but old doesn't necessarily mean historic or that it's really important to preserve, but the Landmarks Preservation Board said, Yes, this is a landmark. The City Council's then asked to handle the development rights at this property, and last week they voted that - just because it's a landmark doesn't mean we have to prevent new housing from being built here - and they looked poised, at least in committee vote, that they would allow a significant amount of housing to be built here. In the week between last week and the vote this week, things shifted. Councilmember Herbold put out a proposal that would actually significantly limit development here, saying - You can build on the parking lot if you can fit it in there. Most housing builders say, There's no way we're going to fit anything more than a couple stories there. You can't build a tall building, with the ability to have the building be self-supporting physically, on such a small footprint. And so the council suddenly did a 180 and said, Actually, we're going to ensure that most of this property is off-limits to growth and development in housing. Councilmembers Mosqueda and Morales strongly objected and voted against this. Councilmember Lewis tried to play middle ground, as he often does - but I don't know that that worked in practice, and I don't know if that's going to work to satisfy his supporters. And, of course, you have councilmembers like Sara Nelson and Lisa Herbold seeing an opportunity to try to prevent new housing from being built. And that's ultimately what happens - a 7-2 vote to have a very limited ability to build on the parking lot there, which is - not much housing is going to go in this location, even though it is zoned already for tall towers. It's surrounded by tall towers there - Denny and Westlake - and it's a couple blocks from a planned light rail stop for the ST3 line that will go out to Ballard. It's just an absurd situation, all in all. I think the council made the wrong decision, and it also raises serious questions about how the landmarking process works - for something that's actually not really that historic to be given protections - to prevent hundreds of homes from being built and to prevent at least $1.5 million from being put into the affordable housing fund that would have happened if it could be built to its maximum zoning potential. [00:19:56] Crystal Fincher: And conversation about protecting the drive-through - and this is happening while the Council and the City is saying, Hey, we're in a housing crisis. We need to desperately, as quickly as possible, add as many housing units as we can in the City - that's a key element of addressing housing affordability and homelessness. And saying we need to accelerate our pursuit of meeting our climate goals. We are having regional discussions about how we're behind schedule in meeting our 2030 climate goals, and certainly we need to do more to address that. Having more dense housing, reducing - especially in the most metropolitan, urban environments - the necessity of cars. This is also against the backdrop of public safety and a pedestrian and road safety crisis we're in the middle of. And it just seems like preservation in its current iteration and how it's operating is just not aligned with any of those goals. And so it really begs the question - what are we doing here? It doesn't seem to make much sense. These are buildings - I'm in Kent right now, I'm pretty sure Kent literally has five of these buildings. It's hard to find a suburb that doesn't have at least a couple. And so what is special about this, or is this really just a proxy for preventing development? [00:21:37] Robert Cruickshank: Oh, it's a proxy - no doubt. A proxy to prevent development on that site and an opportunity for people who are dead set against new housing from being built in the City - an opportunity for them to try to stop it from happening. You mentioned Kent, you mentioned climate. And one of the reasons we're in a climate crisis is because after World War II, rather than build in urban centers and build more density, we sprawled everywhere. Rather than add more housing in Seattle, we paved all that farmland there in Kent. We cut down all those trees on the hills in Kent. And not just Kent, obviously - all over the Puget Sound region we did this. All over the country, honestly. And so in 1990, the state passed the Growth Management Act designed to stop that from happening, to prevent our forests and farmlands from being destroyed by development. But the trade-off there to protect those places - and we absolutely must protect them - is that we agreed that there would be more density in the cities, and that just has not happened. So this is where I think the conversations we're having this morning are great because we're talking about what's going on at the Legislature and Governor Inslee's proposals, legislation to add missing middle housing, and how that affects cities and why it's necessary because cities keep doing stuff like this. They keep finding ways to prevent sensible housing projects from being built in places that make sense for them to go - it's Mercer Island trying to prevent new housing from coming there, even though they are in the center of the Puget Sound region. We clearly need the state to step in and address this because cities won't. There is a bill that's been proposed in the Legislature this year that would significantly limit the ability of design review boards to mess with housing. There's a notorious example up on the top of Queen Anne where Safeway wanted to build 200 housing units there, and it took years to get through the design review process. They'd come back and say we don't like the color of the brick on the building. It's absurd. Now, historic preservation is important. There are things that have to be protected, right? Everyone agrees protecting Pike Place Market was the right thing to do. But you have to use those sparingly in order to ensure that you still have value in what you're protecting - are you just protecting anything that's old? And to ensure that you're not undermining your other goals, as you mentioned. Historic preservation should go hand-in-hand with solving our climate crisis, with solving our housing crisis - it should not be oppositional. [00:24:00] Crystal Fincher: And speaking of proxy actions, Walgreens also admitted this week that they exaggerated the impact of crime, the hysteria they stoked - saying, Oh, we have to close these locations, we're dealing with challenges, this is really impacting our bottom line, talking about retail theft - they absolutely overstated it. They overstated it to such a degree they had to admit and apologize for overstating it. And it's so insidious because so many stories - to anyone who, to many people who didn't have a financial interest in the criminalization of poverty and telling this story, it was really obvious that that is not the reason why Walgreens is taking these actions - while they're announcing historic revenue and profits - doesn't seem to be impacting the bottom line. In fact, wage theft seems to be a bigger problem in that industry - a much, much bigger problem. But that was the justification used by so many candidates at the local level across the West Coast. And we've seen this here in Washington state and our local cities saying, Look at these businesses saying that they're having such a problem with theft. We need to crack down on it. We need to deploy resources to make sure that they're happy. And we need to act against what the data say is effective for reducing crime and making people more safe, making our community healthier, and just enforce these laws and jail people and hold them accountable. And it turns out it was all fake. [00:25:43] Robert Cruickshank: It was. There is a public safety issue in our country - there has been for a long time, but it's, as you just described, overstated, exaggerated for political effect. And that's problematic in numerous ways, one of which is it's used to - quite deliberately, I believe - in order to undermine more progressive candidates, to support more regressive candidates, whether they're conservative Democrats or Republicans. And it also distorts the way we talk about public safety. It distorts the way we treat public safety. When Walgreens is out there in 2022 saying, Oh, my gosh, we're having a huge shoplifting crisis. Somebody help us - our elected officials are nowhere to be found. That affects the way politics happens, it affects who wins elections, it affects where money gets spent. So for them to come out publicly to acknowledge here in 2023, after the elections are already done - Oh, actually, we were just overstating that. There's a little bit of an issue, but it's not nearly to the degree we were saying it is. It's just clear that this is being manipulated for political effect. I think one of the places it was manipulated most effectively and successfully was in New York. And one of the reasons Republicans now control the House by just a few votes is because New York Democrats got hammered on public safety and crime, even though, as it turns out - New York - a lot of it was just hype. And when you have corporations hyping public safety for political purposes, it's just hugely problematic because it makes it so much more difficult to actually address things that people need, to actually address the root causes of public safety issues. [00:27:15] Crystal Fincher: I also have to call out the media's role in this whole situation, and the seeming willingness to just dictate without any question what comes from people whose job titles start with, C's. The CEO says public - they're having a problem, and then we see headlines across the city and all of these papers saying that, Oh, crime is an issue. And others seemingly catching on - Hey, we can blame this. We can blame anything on crime. We saw Starbucks union bust basically - attempt to union bust - saying, Crime is an issue. We're going to shut down this store. It so happens that the stores that they're shutting down are the ones that are unionized - unless unionization just attracts this special kind of crime, which it does not. This is just a cover. But the lack of curiosity, the lack of interrogation, the lack of attention to data from many in media, and just repeating and parroting what they're saying without really examining the truth of these claims is a problem that needs to improve moving forward. [00:28:26] Robert Cruickshank: It is and there's not any accountability for that when it happens. When The Seattle Times or KOMO have these breathless headlines or TV broadcasts that talk about a huge wave of crime in Seattle and turns out - well, actually it's not that huge, and actually crime's been going down for a while, and the other disruption of a pandemic - things got a little out of hand for a bit because everything was disrupted, there are ways to solve this without panicking. No one's going to - there's not going to be any accountability or change - you're not going to have editors at The Seattle Times or ownership at KOMO look at themselves in the mirror and think, Gosh, we got this wrong - mea culpa, we're sorry - here's how we're going to do better going forward. They're just going to keep finding new ways to exaggerate issues in order to attack their political opponents. [00:29:12] Crystal Fincher: And it's sad. We even saw The New York Times basically acknowledge that there was a problem, without acknowledging their direct role in that problem, in the litany of headlines that occurred during that election talking about how much of a problem crime was - although it turns out New York is safer than most small towns. We hear a lot of this talk, especially from the right side of the aisle and right wing forces, saying, Oh, it's this - everything is really dangerous in Democrat-run cities and these large cities are really horrible. And literally the exact opposite is true. [00:29:49] Robert Cruickshank: Here's how it plays out in The New York Times - they're so busy covering a supposed crime wave that doesn't actually exist, that they're missing actual law breaking from a Republican candidate like George Santos. His opponent - his Democratic opponent - tried to draw attention to what appeared to be a litany of lies from this candidate, tried to get The New York Times to cover it, and they wouldn't. So you have a guy who's now in Congress - and people in Congress are thinking, How do we get this inveterate liar out of our ranks? There's a way you could have prevented this from happening, but The New York Times was more interested in spinning up a story about crime than they were about really investigating a really shady candidate for office. [00:30:29] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. We will continue to pay attention to what they say. We - at the time - certainly talked about how those claims were dubious and we'll continue to call that out. We also saw this week an interesting development in Seattle Public Schools, which is a suit that they're bringing against social media companies. What is this suit about? [00:30:52] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, this is interesting. It came out of the blue to a lot of us who are parents, even those of us who follow the district closely. They announced a lawsuit against TikTok, Facebook, Google - which runs YouTube - for the way in which their social media apps, in their words, are undermining the mental health of students. And they're not wrong about that. That is an issue that many people have observed over the years. Social media is structured in a way that it preys upon fears and concerns in kids, the way that the algorithms work are designed to get kids hooked, the way that they get them hooked are appealing to their most base instincts, getting kids to fight with each other on social media. There are problems here. But the reaction from parents and especially from students at SPS is one of kind of dismissiveness towards this lawsuit. The leaders of the Seattle Student Union have been quoted in media saying, Yeah, there are problems with social media for sure, but where is the mental health support that we need from our schools? They have been arguing for months and had a walkout in late 2022 over the issue of a lack of mental health counselors in schools. The Legislature still does not fund mental health counselors at every school - they don't even fund a nurse at every school. The Seattle Student Union asked for $9 million to be spent to hire more mental health counselors. The City of Seattle stepped in and said, Well, we'll add $4 million. The district says we just don't have any money, which you have to question where the district spending priorities are. And so what you're seeing the students say - I've heard this from parents as well - and I think they have a really good point, is that the school district seems to be blaming the tech companies and not looking at what the district can do itself to help solve this. Parents even point out that in elementary grades on student computers, you can still access YouTube in the classroom - just without any filters or restrictions. So while I do believe that there is an issue here with the way the tech companies operate, I think social media does harm kids - the district has a point in this lawsuit. They might well lose it because it's not going to be very difficult for the social media companies themselves to point to the fact the district isn't doing all it needs to do, or all it could do, to address student mental health needs. [00:33:12] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. And that seems to be the most confounding part of it to me is that in a district that is saying it has limited resources - in fact, does not have the resources available to adequately provide mental health services for students, which has been well-documented and well-talked about at all levels - that a lawsuit, although valid, is the most effective expenditure here. These are expensive and you're going against some of the deepest pockets in the world. This is at minimum going to be a very long and protracted legal battle. And I just don't know that spending this money on a lawsuit versus spending it on actually helping these students with these issues that - while they may include social media, certainly go far beyond social media - and that they can take direct steps to address. It just seems very questionable and I'm really curious to see how they arrived at this being the solution they're going for. [00:34:12] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, I wonder as well. And the district in Seattle sent out an email to families this week saying, We're not spending district money on it. It'll only be funded - the attorney's fees will be paid out of a settlement or a victory. But that doesn't really answer the question of what happens if we don't win. What happens if, for example, the district wins in lower court and these companies appeal all the way to a Supreme Court? So I find the district's claims that public money isn't going to be spent on this very skeptical and very - it's hard to believe. I saw the Kent School District join the suit, so clearly districts are talking to each other. And again, there is an issue here. But it's hard to see the districts doing this with a serious intent to address student mental health needs when there's so many other things they could be doing, such as funding more counselors, and they're not. [00:35:07] Crystal Fincher: I hope to learn more about the deliberation process here. Maybe there's something that I'm not seeing - that's certainly possible. But without that information, this seems questionable. I also want to talk about a very good article this week from Real Change - really diving into the issue of service refusals by the unhoused community. We've certainly talked before on the program - and this has been a big topic of discussion overall - that a lot of times when they're talking about encampments and saying, We need to clear this. And you hear in the reporting, We made offers of service to people that were refused. Therefore, they just decided not to do that. They don't want services and evidently they want to be outside, and this is the life they want to live, and we just can't have in this area - so we're completely justified in sweeping them. We tried to help and they refused. And the truth is much more complicated than that - and really examining how appropriate, how effective, how valid is the help that they're looking at. What did you see from this? [00:36:19] Robert Cruickshank: It's a fascinating article. And what it showed is that people who are currently living out on the streets - whether it's in a tent, in an RV - they want private shelter. They want a tiny house. They want a room in a hotel. Ultimately, of course, they want housing - stable, permanent housing. The congregate shelters where they're like dormitories, cots on a floor - that model exists but it's unsafe for a lot of people. They don't feel safe there. People are concerned that their possessions will get stolen. A lot of these congregate shelters have rules preventing people bringing their possessions or their pets in. They can't go in with a partner. So what the article showed is that when the offer of shelter was made for a tiny house, it was over 60% uptake. People said, Yes, I will take a tiny house. When it was a cot on a floor in a congregate shelter, the rates of refusal went up. And that's not because people are refusing services. People who are living on the streets are normal human beings and I think the discourse often, especially coming from the right, neglects that point. Normal human beings who want privacy, who want to feel safe in the place where they sleep at night, who find a tent or an RV to be safer than some of the conditions they experience in congregate shelters. So what this suggests is that - whether it's at the city level, the regional level, the King County Regional Homelessness Authority, or the state level, and this is something that hopefully the governor's bond would address - you need short-term and permanent private housing. Private in the sense - not privately owned - but private where someone feels that that room is their own, that they are secure where they're sleeping at night, there's a roof over their head and a lock on the door. And I think that that is the direction we need to be heading in. We need to spend more on things like tiny houses, but those are always intended to be transitional. We put someone in a tiny house so that we get them off the streets where it's still not safe, where they're still subject to exposure to conditions, whether it's cold or smoke in the summer - cold in the winter, smoke in the summer. And then we also need to really get serious about building more housing. It just comes back to the conversation we had at the top of the show. Housing is essential. It's the root of almost everything. But that article showed that if you approach folks who are unhoused and treat them like normal human beings - which they are - people who want dignity, privacy, and security, which all of us want, you can get folks into shelter if - assuming you've provided it. And this shows that contrary to what the right-wingers claim, the problem isn't with people refusing. It's our government isn't providing shelter. [00:39:10] Crystal Fincher: This has been a problem that's repeatedly been talked about and that people who've been unhoused have been saying for quite some time. In the article, it talks about it boiling down to the three P's - being able to bring your pets, your partners, and your possessions. And when you think about it, of course it does. Of course it does. It also talks about how many people have had negative, harmful, traumatic experiences in congregate shelter for the same reasons that you or I would be hesitant about spending a night in a room full of people we don't know, who are dealing with a wide variety of their own challenges, leaving people who you are relying on to keep you safe. With a variety of things that are a danger to your life and health, having that community to rely on is key to survival. And if you have to give up everything you own or put it at risk of being stolen, which has happened quite a bit in congregate shelters, that's going to give you pause for doing that. For the offer of shelter - for sometimes one night - that you have to be in by a certain time, be out at 7 AM in many of these situations. And it just is not there to meet the need. This congregate shelter model - while a lot of people have been well-meaning, while people operating them are certainly doing good jobs, which - this can fill a gap when there's absolutely nothing else available, when we need hazardous weather or conditions shelter. But for a reliable, effective option, we have to have non-congregate options available to where - you said - people can lock the door, can feel secure and safe. And because of moving to this model and being forced to move to this model sometimes during the pandemic, we were able to get a lot of data that showed, Hey, people stabilize much more effectively when they can feel safe, feel secure - have that baseline - to then start addressing their other problems. If people don't feel safe and secure, that just can't happen. And of course it can't - that's common sense. So I hope that we move towards models that have a chance of working and that serve the population that we're attempting to address. [00:41:43] Robert Cruickshank: Yeah, and it comes down to providing housing. There's a new book that is out that's called Homelessness is a Housing Problem. There's a recognition growing, finally, that homelessness is caused by and will only be solved by providing more housing. And not just temporary shelter, not just a tiny house - although tiny houses are great. It has to be permanent housing. This comes back to everything we've been talking about today - the need for housing. And Seattle has another opportunity - you mentioned at the top of the show Initiative 135 - that comes up, we'll be getting ballots in the mail shortly asking Seattleites to vote to create the opportunity to build more social housing. And we need all these different types of housing in our community. Our failure to build stuff like this over the last decades is the reason why we have a homelessness crisis. Acting quickly to fund it and build it is the way we get out of it for good. [00:42:38] Crystal Fincher: Absolutely. And with that, I thank you all for listening to Hacks & Wonks on this Friday, January 13th, 2022. Hacks & Wonks is co-produced by Shannon Cheng and Bryce Cannatelli. Our insightful co-host today is the Chair of Sierra Club Seattle, longtime communications and political strategist, Robert Cruikshank. Thanks so much for joining us and sharing your wisdom today. [00:43:00] Robert Cruickshank: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk with you about everything that's going on in our community. It's always a great conversation. [00:43:06] Crystal Fincher: You can find Robert on Twitter @cruickshank. That's C-R-U-I-C-K S-H-A-N-K. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks. And you can find me on Twitter @finchfrii - that's F-I-N-C-H F-R-I-I. You can catch Hacks & Wonks wherever you get your podcasts - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get our full versions of the Friday almost-live shows and our midweek show delivered to your podcast feed. If you like us, leave a review wherever you listen. You can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at officialhacksandwonks.com and in the podcast episode notes. Thanks for tuning in - talk to you next time.

A suspected mail thief was shot and killed by a resident near Port Orchard in Kitsap County late Monday night, Jan. 9th, 2023. No specifics yet from authorities but KVI's John Carlson examines whether or not this could potentially be described as a vigilante killing. Was the suspected criminal fleeing? Did the 39-year-old shooter call police after the shooting? These are all key questions right now. More questions are arising like what jury or judge is going to put this 39-year-old man in jail for shooting a suspected thief. And there's a bigger picture to this fatal shooting: if Puget Sound politicians can't control crime problems and repeat criminals, eventually we're going to have residents who are prepared to take the law into their own hands. This shooting is directly connected to Gov. Jay Inslee, WA Democrats and prosecutors in Seattle who have allowed crime to go un-checked.

This week, Crystal is joined by Pierce County Council Chair, Derek Young! Looking at Washington's Secretary of State race between Democratic incumbent Steve Hobbs and nonpartisan challenger Julie Anderson, Derek talks about his views on Anderson, who's tenure as Pierce County's County Auditor has given him insight into her values and priorities. Anderson's been taking criticisms from some Democrats while others Dems have stood up to defend her and her record. Hobbs has been running on his experience in the role since assuming the position last year, and has stayed out of the mud-slinging in this race. He has his own previous reputation as a moderate Dem that is coloring some voters' opinions of him.  26th LD Representative Jesse Young's behavior and extreme political views have become the subject of news again as his race against State Senator Emily Randall for the State Senate seat continues. Young has a history of aggression against staffers, to the point that he has been banned from having legislative staff, has co-sponored legislation to limit abortion rights, and has supported local Republicans who have been involved in domestic terrorism.  In other troubling news out of this race, a PAC, Concerned Taxpayers of Washington State, sent a mailer that made a derogatory reference to Emily Randall's sexual identity. It's another disturbing example of anti-LGBTQIA rhetoric and sentiment  in mainstream political circles.  Derek recommends Pierce County listeners pay attention to the race between Robyn Denson and Paula Lonergan, who are running for Derek's seat on the City Council now that he's hit his term limit. He also points to the race between Councilmember Marty Campbell and challenger Nancy Slotnick. Finally, a Pierce County project to build a homeless housing project has hit a major road bump in the form of zoning conflicts. Derek provides insight into the specifics of the project, its goals, and what its future looks like after this setback. As always, a full text transcript of the show is available below and at officialhacksandwonks.com. Follow us on Twitter at @HacksWonks. Find the host, Crystal Fincher, on Twitter at @finchfrii and find today's co-host, Derek Young, on Twitter at @DerekMYoung. More info is available at officialhacksandwonks.com.   Resources Don't forget to vote! Visit votewa.gov for voting resources.   Institute for a Democratic Future 2023 applications are live! The initial deadline is November 2nd, and the final deadline is November 13th.   Learn more about how to get involved in Seattle's budget season at this link.   Student debt relief sign-ups are live! Visit this link to enroll.   “Democrats split over nonpartisan secretary of state candidate” by Melissa Santos from Axios   Hacks & Wonks' Interview with Secretary of State candidate Julie Anderson   Hacks & Wonks' Interview with Secretary of State candidate Steve Hobbs   “New ad highlights Washington candidate's past behavior against staffers” by Shauna Sowersby from The News Tribune   Emily Randall's response to the homophobic mailer against her - watch on TikTok here   Sign up to volunteer for Emily Randall's campaign here on her website.    Hacks & Wonks' Interview with Robyn Denson.    “Pierce County prefers this site for a big homeless housing project. Why it might not work” by Shea Johnson from The News Tribune   Transcript [00:00:00] Crystal Fincher: Welcome to Hacks & Wonks. I'm Crystal Fincher, and I'm a political consultant and your host. On this show, we talk with policy wonks and political hacks to gather insight into local politics and policy in Washington State through the lens of those doing the work with behind-the-scenes perspectives on what's happening, why it's happening, and what you can do about it. Full transcripts and resources referenced in the show are always available at officialhacksandwonks.com and in our episode notes. Today, we're continuing our Friday almost-live shows where we review the news of the week with a co-host. Welcome back to the program, friend of the show, today's co-host: Pierce County Council Chair, Derek Young. Welcome. [00:00:52] Councilmember Derek Young: Thank you for having me. [00:00:53] Crystal Fincher: Excited to have you here again, especially - to get to focus on Pierce County and talk about Pierce County. There's a lot going on. I guess starting off - we're in election season, ballots are in people's hands - remember to get those ballots turned in. Vote by November 8th, but even better, just vote as soon as possible - get that in and done. There are some close and exciting races in Pierce County and with some Pierce County angles. I think we'll start off talking about the Secretary of State's race, which is a statewide race, but with current Secretary of State Steve Hobbs, who was a former State Senator and then after Kim Wyman moved to Washington [D.C.] and left the job, Steve Hobbs was appointed by Governor Inslee, and a challenger, Julie Anderson, who is a county auditor and now running for the statewide Secretary of State race. What have you seen in this race lately? [00:01:56] Councilmember Derek Young: I will say this. The race has not gone as I assumed it would, which would be more a debate between Anderson and Hobbs that was about the office and the ideas. And has now evolved into something where we have this strange situation where we have a lot of Pierce County Democrats, like myself, who are defending Julie from attacks from our State Party Chair. And that's been strange - I think it's particularly difficult for those of us that have been around and know Julie well to see the attacks turn into "she's some sort of secret MAGA Trump Republican that" - she's been around a long time and so with those of us that know her, that's a very strange experience to have. So rather than focusing on the office, we found ourselves in a defense mode trying to say - Hey, that's not the Julie that we know, support Steve all you want - that's all fine, I get it. He's running as a Democrat and she's running as a Nonpartisan, which makes things way more difficult. The race has turned into something - the election itself is almost a sideshow of the controversy that has developed around it. [00:03:30] Crystal Fincher: Some controversy, definitely. I wonder how visible it is to the general public. Certainly people - politicos, the hacks and wonks who are around - are very caught up in this just because it's a different dynamic than we normally have. This has been a partisan office. It's been the only statewide office that Republicans held recently. It was previously held by Republican Kim Wyman - has been a partisan office -when she left and this race came up, people generally assumed - okay, there's going to be a Democrat and a Republican. A Democrat, a Republican, and a Nonpartisan ended up running and Julie Anderson ended up edging out the Republican candidate in the primary, so this is a general election that a lot of people did not anticipate. And the dynamic between a Democrat and a Nonpartisan - and Julie has said that she prefers the term Nonpartisan instead of Independent - is certainly different than - a lot of people - hey, you're familiar with who a Democrat is, you're familiar with who a Republican is. And that has a lot to do with how you view those - that's a significant lens to view a candidate through, and most people see that as a significant driver of a decision and are more aligned with one party and/or tend to vote for the candidate of that party. In this situation with Julie Anderson being Nonpartisan, there has been a lot of questions. And from the Democratic Party and some opponents - have basically said, Hey, she's aligned with Republicans, she looks like she may be an undercover Republican. I should mention that Hacks & Wonks did interviews with both Steve Hobbs and with Julie Anderson. We actually talked very directly about this issue. Julie and Steve both offered their opinions and explanations on all of this, and so you can find those shows and we'll link those in the show notes. But it's that attack on Julie Anderson that has been controversial - that we saw an Axios article from Melissa Santos about this week, lots of online posting and opinions and takes about this, but hey, is it actually accurate that Julie Anderson is basically a closet Republican or has she worked well with all people, sincerely views herself as a Nonpartisan? Are her views consistent now after getting some Republican support than they were before? It appears that they are, and she has stood up afterwards and say - Hey, I still believe our elections are secure, and believe in how they've been, and for voter amendments and those kinds of things. But then other people are saying - hey, especially at a time when we have these battles between Republicans and Democrats, we can't risk having a Nonpartisan in there. We need to have a Democrat in this office. How do you weigh that decision and how do you think voters can view their decision in this race? [00:06:42] Councilmember Derek Young: Yeah, it's a fair question and I'll be honest - it would have been so much easier if she was running as a Democrat because you have the backing of the Party and all the resources that brings with it. Obviously, in this case, that wouldn't have been the way it went down because we have an incumbent who was appointed last year. But - what's the saying about Ginger Rogers and having to do all the things that Fred Astaire did, but backwards and in heels? That's the kind of obstacles that Julie, by choosing this, put in her way. I don't know how voters are going to react as a result. The one thing I do note is that she believes this in her bones. This is a genuine conviction that the position of auditor at the local level and Secretary of State at the state level should be Nonpartisan because you can't assume that everyone will look at election and have faith in it if they view the person administering it as aligned with one of the teams. I actually think I agree with that sentiment, particularly in these times, and I kind of understand where people are coming from when - at a time when so many Republicans are calling into question the veracity of our elections, can we have someone that's on the sidelines, so to speak, that isn't actively pushing back on that from the Democratic point of view? I tend to agree with Julie more in that the way you build trust and faith in the system is by having someone who is fulfilling a more ministerial role and calling balls and strikes not aligned with one of the parties. And I've seen how that works firsthand in Pierce County. One of my jobs as Chair of the Council is I sit on the Canvassing Board and so each election, there's a group of folks who are election observers from each party and independents that come in - and every time, these very partisan folks have nothing but praise for Julie and her team and the transparent and accountable system that she's built. This is also a woman who literally tried to get rid of her office. She proposed to me, and I agreed, that the role of auditor should be an appointed position because it is administrative and ministerial. Electing the position is actually not a great idea - similar for the offices of sheriff and assessor. So I had charter amendments to propose for each of those. But being Julie, she wrote an editorial saying - you should get rid of the job I just completed. And I just have nothing but admiration for someone who's not only learned the role, but determined that - if she designed the ideal world, this position would not even be elected. But if you're going to have an elected person in it, you should have someone that is not beholden to one of the parties. The last thing I'll just say is that prior to her time as auditor in the county, she was on the Tacoma City Council. While city council races are also nonpartisan, you get a sense for people's values. Julie Anderson is a very progressive person. And I think there's - so for those of us that are from Pierce County, this has been this just very strange experience to watch. And how that plays out in the rest of state, I just don't know. But I have to imagine that the tension drawn to it by the Party has probably actually been good for her to get that message out there. I don't know that the rest of the non-very-online, very-hooked-in crowd is paying that much attention to the race, so we'll see how it goes. [00:11:14] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, we'll see how it goes - this seems to be a race, I think I commented earlier, I know other people have - where this is not a race that seems to be attracting much attention. People are kind of looking at those party cues. Hey, if I'm a Democrat, I see a Democrat, I'm voting for the Democrat. And that seems to be how things are going with people who don't really pay attention to local party politics, all of the stories, the ins and outs of the campaigns to the degree that people who work in politics or policy or heavily involved in advocacy do. But for those who are, this has been one of the toughest decisions and have been some of the toughest conversations that people have had in a bit - because there is this tension. And I think another dimension of this is that we're talking about Senator Steve Hobbs, who has been known as a moderate and has certainly provoked a lot of emotion over the years. He has taken different stances than a lot of other people in the Party on transportation policy and different things. And so I think for people who have been involved in politics for a long time, they have this view of him in their head as a moderate. And that's a positive thing for some people - some people may feel that that's pragmatic. For others, they feel that that's obstruction. But for people who do have an impression of Steve Hobbs, whether positive or negative, I think that colors how they're coming into the opinions of this race and that conversation. And also just the recognition that that's a very small slice of people who are paying attention to that degree. So I don't know how much this makes it out into the world of people who take the time to vote and who care about it, but who don't really follow politics closely. It'll be interesting to see how this continues to play out and how the information continues to flow over the next two weeks. [00:13:19] Councilmember Derek Young: Steve has also - to his credit - is not behind a lot of the nastiness that has come up in this race. In fact, I have not heard anything bad about the way he's conducted himself in the office. And so my feelings - and they're personal feelings in the race, I think for a lot of others - it's actually less about Steve Hobbs and more about our feelings for Julie. I will also say, for those of us from South Sound, there's a little bit of folks from other parts of the state telling us what we should think about this. And so you have a little bit of good old-fashioned Tacoma getting its back up about one of our own. And I think there's some of that going on as well. So I just wanted to be clear that I think the candidates themselves are conducting an admirable race. [00:14:15] Crystal Fincher: I think that's fair. There's another race where I don't think one of the candidates is conducting an admirable race, and that's an extremely partisan race in your neck of the woods - in the 26th Legislative District - between Democrat Emily Randall and very extreme Republican Jesse Young. Now you have been down there and observing the ins and outs of Jesse Young, who's now running for State Senate, but was a State Representative, is a State Representative before this. Man, this man has issues - and this week there was a news story that that talked about his very problematic treatment and harassment of staff. What did he do? [00:15:02] Councilmember Derek Young: There's a pattern of abusive behavior to not only staff, but other legislators. For example, his Republican seatmate, Michelle Caldier - they're not supposed to be in the same room together without at least one other person because they got in an argument that was so loud that security had to show up. So this is someone from his own party and his seatmate in his district. And I will just say that it fits a pattern for him. And he would not be the first politician that has had difficulties with staff, but when he was found to have done these things and was instructed to go to some anger management counseling, he refused to do so. And so as a result, to this day, he's not allowed to have legislative staff. And some of the reports were pretty awful - calling a woman by a particularly vulgar name and screaming fits - and to the point where at one point the staffer referred to their weekly meetings as "the weekly beatings." So his behavior is obviously a problem and makes him particularly ineffective because how someone does the job of legislator without staff is kind of beyond me. All that said, it's not just his behavior that's problematic. He has rather extreme political positions. This was a man who was close allies with and stuck by Matt Shea - many of your listeners will remember as the radical Eastern Washington Republican who literally organized the militia takeover of the Malheur. [00:17:02] Crystal Fincher: Yeah - he was involved in domestic terrorism. [00:17:04] Councilmember Derek Young: Yeah, he put tracking devices on sheriff vehicles to monitor people, he planned insurrection, runs a training camp for militia activities. And this is someone who - when he was under fire for these behaviors and Republicans were trying to figure out what to do - leadership in their caucus removed him immediately from the caucus. Well, maybe not immediately, but got to it pretty quickly. He stood by him the entire time and organized opposition to Minority Leader J.T. Wilcox's actions that removed him from the caucus and expedited his eventual departure from the Legislature. So, his positions on abortion are for criminalization. Just really strange out of the mainstream type of behavior, and I'll leave you with this one other more recent anecdote that I am more personally knowledgeable of. During the aftermath of George Floyd's death, some teenagers in Gig Harbor decided that they were going to organize protests and showed up at this one corner that's particularly - I don't know, for whatever reason, it's become our protest area - I think it's because it's got a lot of traffic. And so hundreds of kids and some adults showed up there to protest and demand reforms for law enforcement. And Jesse showed up with a group of men carrying long guns because they claimed that these were Antifa and they were going to burn the shopping mall next to it to the ground. He stuck by this ridiculous story for so long, he even claimed that the local police chief, who happens to be a friend, had covered up the story and that he witnessed the chief grabbing gas cans that were planted ahead of time to burn the strip mall down. When in reality, what the police chief had seen was a gas can that had fallen on the roadway from someone with a landscaping truck and he was just picking it up to get it out of the road. He continued to lie about this on conservative talk radio for weeks. And this is our police chief - he's a known, trusted person that's been on our force and lived in our community for decades. And Jesse's out there lying about him because he wanted to justify his appearance there with a group of men and long guns to a protest organized by teens. [00:19:54] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, and that was a scary time. This was in 2020 - we were working with organizers on the ground, canvassers on the ground in the district at the time in another effort. And it was a really scary thing even detached from it - hearing, hey, there are reports with men driving around with guns, men arriving at this place with guns, some of these assault rifles, right? And just not knowing what's going to happen, hearing the extremist rhetoric, knowing the history of some of those - especially in the context of his palling around with domestic terrorists, Matt Shea - did not know what direction this was going to go in, but he clearly felt really entitled to do that and to intimidate everyone in that area, everyone in those neighborhoods. And that's just really fundamentally not okay. The treatment of staff is just really fundamentally not okay. And there are some people who sometimes view these things as partisan attacks. And Republicans certainly have their own record on what they've permitted within the ranks of their party. But I think in this state, especially among Democrats - we had a conversation, had many conversations about Insurance Commissioner, Mike Kreidler - that treatment - so many people have called on him to resign and continue to, finding that's not acceptable. He's not going to find support when he - it would be really unwise to choose to run for re-election - but if he would, he's not going to find support there. There have been other people whose resignations have been called for in the wake of treatment like this. This is something that is not partisan. This is something that Democrats have been not hesitant to call out people in their own ranks. And this also applies to Republicans. He has not had a legislative assistant since, what was it, 2016? [00:21:59] Councilmember Derek Young: Something like that, yeah. [00:22:00] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, for quite some time. And as you said, how do you get any work done? The people in the 26th have had hobbled representation. And if people found any fault with what's happening, you kind of have to ask - how is Jesse Young able to show up and do his job? Other legislators have beyond full schedules - needing a legislative assistant to juggle all of that, juggle all their communications, schedule meetings, coordinate with their constituents. And so that's just not possible to do and to fully do your job. And to have the reason for that being that you can't be trusted to be around subordinates is really just an indictment on the fitness for office. And there's a clear choice in terms of the issue of abortion rights in this race. You have Emily Randall, who is a staunch supporter of personal freedom and privacy and reproductive choice. You have Jesse Young, who has taken really extreme stands on abortion - and hey, it shouldn't just be a ban, there should be criminal penalties involved in this - just really troubling. And the election conspiracy denial - he went to Arizona, with the denialists in Arizona, to a Cyber Ninja audit that they called it. And it was just really a gathering of these conspiracy theorists. Why are we entertaining a conversation of electing a guy who is doing this kind of stuff? This is just beyond me and really beyond the conversations of how do we even get to policy? How do we even get to what you're going to do in the job when you're doing things that prevent your ability to even do the job? How are we debating about issues when he can't adequately legislate? He can't adequately hear from, meet with, represent constituents. He can't adequately conduct himself in public and not intimidate people with guns - teenagers - with guns in public. We can't even get to the conversation of legislating. This guy is just fundamentally unfit. It's a challenge. And I imagine you're sitting there looking at this race and going - oh my goodness, I wish more people really knew who this guy was and what's at stake. [00:24:34] Councilmember Derek Young: It is hard because it is my community. We are the - 26th district for those that aren't familiar - it's basically the Kitsap Peninsula, so half of it's in Pierce County in the Key Peninsula and Gig Harbor area and then Kitsap going up to Bremerton. And it's a swing district. Even calling it a swing district might be generous to the Democratic side. They've been pretty successful here for the last decade or so. And things didn't change that much with redistricting. But yeah, even setting that aside, I get that at least half of our district prefers the Republican side and that's fine. But in this case, you have someone who is so clearly a great representative for us, or a senator for us, and is very effective - almost shockingly so. As a first-term Senator, Emily Randall really was a standout amongst that group in terms of being effective, being thoughtful, doing the hard work. I know within my association, because I've been for a number of years leading our legislative efforts, very often bringing her up as someone to champion things that we're working on because we know her as a worker and fair-minded and well-respected. And then you have the opposite of that challenging her and really just having some basic integrity challenges in addition to his volatility, so I don't get it. This shouldn't be close. I understand why some of the other races are the way they are - we actually had a surprise with Adison Richards doing exceptionally well in the primary of one of the House seats, against a fine candidate on the Republican side who I know pretty well - Spencer Hutchins, who was formerly on the Gig Harbor Council. So those are the races where I understand everyone's got a choice and it's harder to understand why the Senate race is this close. [00:27:00] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, it's worrisome, but this is definitely a race. We've talked before about - there's a lot of people in the Seattle area who listen to this race and a lot of the races that they're going to be considering are Democrat versus Democrat legislative races, some of them are uncontested at all. And so it presents an opportunity to say, okay, we know your seat is going to be in Democratic hands and certainly stay active and involved where you're at, but make a point to adopt a race somewhere externally, whether it's a district like the 26th Legislative District down in South Sound, whether it's the 47th Legislative District down in the Kent, Auburn, Covington area. Or up north in the 10th or 47th or 42nd districts. Pick one of these districts where we know that races there are consistently close and competitive, that it's always within a hair of which candidate wins, and help put the Democratic candidate in this situation, but help put the candidates that align with your values over the top. [00:28:19] Councilmember Derek Young: And do it - if for no other reason - to help out me personally. We're two guys from Gig Harbor named Young and working in politics, so lots of people confuse it. And I think in particular, my dad takes exception because people think his son is Jesse. [00:28:36] Crystal Fincher: Oh, yikes. Yikes and yikes. Yeah, I do not envy you as being another Young in politics there, but hopefully this is something that won't be an issue for you that much longer. So as if all of the other stuff wasn't enough, there was a mailer that arrived this week that was really troubling and obviously intentional. The background here is that Emily Randall is a queer woman - has been open about that, wonderful about that. And a mailer arrived and you talked about this, so I'll let you describe it. [00:29:22] Councilmember Derek Young: Basically - and I hadn't noticed the mailer, I don't know that I was the target audience - but Emily posted a video where she shared it because she received it. And the message says, Let's set the record straight. Now, that term is one we're all familiar with in political context and journalism and such. The problem was that they put a special emphasis - underlined and red-bolded the "straight" part. That is a winking notation of her sexual identity and a pretty ugly one, I think. It's a - we are in a divided district, so we know that there is some people who will be uncomfortable with LGBTQ rights and Emily's never hidden from it. But the IE that ran this - I think there's no question they knew exactly what they were doing, and it's really worthy of calling out. And I'm glad that Emily did herself, because she's her own best advocate and I think that's important. But I think it's also important for all of us to say - We know what you were doing. And this isn't some PAC that just popped up for a single purpose to hide identities. This is a - what is it - Concerned Taxpayers? I forget their exact name, but it's a mainstream PAC that's very active in a lot of races. Their major donors are Master Builders and Realtors. And so this is a group that should know better and did something - [00:31:17] Crystal Fincher: That does know better and decided not to do it. That is - this isn't a fringe group - this is a major mainstream regular supporter of the party, closely aligned interests of the party. They're allies of the party and they're consistently there for those interests. And it clearly was intentional. I mean, as - you have worked on political communications certainly, as have I. And I think sometimes political operatives do the thing where we know exactly what we do. And I'm saying, I do not do this and try very hard not to do this - but I've seen Republicans and I've sometimes seen Democrats do this - but rely on the public not realizing what our work actually is and how we actually do it, to just excuse it. And what you see in political communications, what you see on mail is very intentional. The words are poured over. There are several levels of approval, certainly on - if you're working with a good team, as you are anywhere, you want to make sure that you're conveying the message that you want to and that you are not conveying any message that you don't want to. So anything that can be borderline - I don't really want to say that - then you don't say, then you change something to make sure that it doesn't give that impression, that it doesn't say something - especially something that is harmful or offensive. And at a time when we have a very conservative Supreme Court who is tearing down rights, who has basically put the right of marriage equality on notice. And the Dobbs decision - it didn't just strike down Roe vs Wade - it also laid the path that a number of them want to take moving forward, which is striking down protections for contraception, privacy, marriage equality - type thing. So we know this is on deck. We've heard several Republicans in the state and across the country say that they believe that - just marriage between only a man and a woman should be legally valid, others should be illegal again - who want to roll back the rights that were won. And this was an ad targeted at a conservative audience. It is not a secret that when you have "straight" in big, bold, red letters that are then underlined - and that's the only word on the page that it's treated like that - you're sending a message. And it's unacceptable. And I am glad she called it out. And to your point, I'm very glad that everyone has the opportunity to say - No, this is unacceptable, and this is a preview of the type of harmful hate that is coming if we allow more of this. I mean, it just is another one of those - before we get into conversations about policy, we're dealing with some really fundamental human decency - really ability to adequately and peacefully participate in society and allow other people to participate in that same society to the same degree. It is just egregious, received news coverage for being egregious. And it's just what we're contending with. It is not at all rare to see these dirty hits come out during this time where ballots are out and mailers are flying. And I don't know what else they have planned, but if this is what they're doing early, I shudder to think what they think they can say when they feel that there isn't the type of penalty or time for scrutiny attached to it. So it's just - get involved in this race, get involved in this race. [00:35:27] Councilmember Derek Young: And I think it's worth saying that - it's not just gross from a political standpoint. Given the trajectory of rhetoric around LGBTQ rights and life in this country, it's dangerous in the literal sense. That's why, I think it's important to - often there's this, especially amongst Democrats, this tendency to worry about should we call attention to an attack or is that making something more visible to the public. And I think there are these cases where - whether it's around election validity, people's basic rights, and just decency - we have to have some ground truth, some shared reality that we all exist on that's beneath where the politics of the situation is going. Let's get back to the point where we can have these fierce debates over policy. But right now we have to have some common cause for just existing in the same society, I think. And saying that these things are out of bounds and there will be a price that you pay for doing it, I think is important. [00:37:02] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, I completely agree. And that hesitance to - should we bring it up, should we talk about it? Yeah, we have to, because the other side is. How many times in the past week have we heard hateful comments about the trans community, hateful anti-Semitic comments, hateful white supremacist comments. And I'm just thinking about this week, right? This is unfortunately creeping into mainstream society. These are not limited to rarely visited corners of the internet that hardly anyone visits. These are some of the biggest celebrities, some of the richest people, and some of the most powerful party members. These are - we're hearing this from elected officials now and party leadership. We have to take a stand and say this is unacceptable because the silence is enabling this. It is going to take an effort of everyone confronting this when they're seeing it and rejecting it - rejecting it in their communities and their conversations with friends - and yes, family - and on the ballot. I mean, rejecting it on the ballot is the easy part - that should be an automatic. We have more work to do to confront this in our everyday lives, in our societies, and the people who we interact with. So I again, just urge people to get involved and to call this stuff out whenever and wherever you see it. That is the most powerful thing that we can do, especially when it's with people you know - it makes a difference. Certainly encourage everyone listening - we'll put information in the show notes - do a phone bank, do a canvass session. If you absolutely can't do those things, donate, but sometimes we talk about money in these races and money certainly helps buy resources and the things to make those happen. But really the time that you can spend - to put in to talk to other voters in that district and to help educate those voters and tell them why you're supportive and why you're taking your time to do this - is really impactful to a lot of people and encourage people to get involved that way. So thank you for that. Are there any other races in Pierce County that you think people should be tuned into, thinking about, looking at? [00:39:34] Councilmember Derek Young: Yeah, we have a couple of council races that are - I think headed in the right direction - but important to keeping the council majority that we managed to get in Democratic hands. One being replacement for me, as I'm term limited and leaving office at the end of the year. And her name is Robyn Denson. Her opponent is a Republican named Paula Lonergan - for folks in Pierce County that name may sound familiar because her husband is the Assessor-Treasurer and used to be a Tacoma City Council member. But that race - things are going fairly well - she's running a pretty traditional Republican campaign. And Robyn is - in fact, you may - I believe you actually did have her on. [00:40:21] Crystal Fincher: Yep, we interviewed her. We'll also link that in the show notes. [00:40:24] Councilmember Derek Young: And she certainly fits the model of wonk. She's a former nonpartisan policy staff down in Olympia, specializing in housing in particular, which is obviously something that's super critical throughout our region, but especially right here in Pierce County. And is just a really thoughtful person. She's currently on the Gig Harbor City Council, and I think the world of her and really recruited her hard to run for my seat, to make sure we kept this in Democratic hands. Because until I ran, we hadn't won this seat really before, so it was important to me to find a suitable replacement. The other is Marty Campbell, who's an incumbent council member. His opponent, Nancy Slotnick, is a Republican. And while that race hasn't been as hot - I think it's flying a little bit under the radar - and Marty's district changed the most out of the council districts during redistricting. And so he's had to introduce himself to a large group of voters who may not be as familiar with him, and so that's presented some challenges, I think. And unfortunately, his partner also has some health issues at the moment that they've been public about - I'm not sharing any inside information - so he's juggling a lot right now trying to be my Vice Chair, which is a challenge even in itself. So we're hoping to push Marty over the line as well. [00:42:00] Crystal Fincher: All right. Sounds good. We will be paying attention to those and seeing how those turn out. In non-political news this week, there was some news in Pierce County about zoning restrictions getting in the way of a planned homeless housing project. This is something that is definitely needed, but it looks like it may have run into a snag. What's happening? [00:42:25] Councilmember Derek Young: Yeah. So this was - I will say, even though it wasn't my fault - as someone in Pierce County government, it's embarrassing. So we have this concept that we are essentially stealing from Austin that - they have a wildly successful program called Community First! Village that's for folks that are unhoused and chronically unhoused. This is the population of homeless folks that have the most barriers - typically will have some disabilities or been homeless for a very long time, may have some behavioral health challenges, you name it - there's something in their way that's keeping them from becoming housed and so they're living on the streets. This model starts with the physical infrastructure - it's essentially micro homes or tiny houses, however you want to refer to it. Their units tend to be very nice by comparison to - sometimes when we talk about tiny houses, we think of some of the garden sheds basically that you see popping up in some communities. These - it looks more like a trailer park - is the way I would describe it. But the secret sauce in this is not just getting people housed - that's the big barrier. The second is that they deliver really intentional services to these folks that are all onsite. They even have volunteers that live onsite. And there's a strong effort to build community, which is something that I think is missed from a lot of permanent supportive housing models you see elsewhere. And I was skeptical at first, but when it clicked - I was talking with someone who has worked in homelessness for a long time. And he said, we typically buy an apartment complex or maybe a hotel and turn that into permanent supportive housing. But think about - because he knew I lived in an apartment - how many of your neighbors do you know? And embarrassingly, I know probably half my neighbors - I know their names and their families. But otherwise, once you get home, you're closing the door and you're not really interacting with them that much. This is the opposite - it's intended to help rebuild those social connections. There's onsite work that can be done. They actually do pay rent - it's heavily subsidized. But the idea is to rebuild those social skills. For some people, they will always live there, and that's fine. But for others, they can then take those steps to getting back to a life that maybe doesn't require as much support. So we're all very excited about this model, and we think it's going to be a hit. One of the first questions I had last year was - okay, we'll appropriate this money, but why don't you tell us if you can find any properties that are available that will have suitable zoning? Somehow that didn't happen. And so the site that they got under contract before approaching the council, it turned out that the zoning, because it's surrounded by wetlands, is Residential Resource, which doesn't allow for this much density. So we were set to approve and they wanted to close on the property by the end of the year - that's just not going to happen. What this looks like going forward, I don't know. But the trick here is that this is a new idea - not only for us, but really for the region. And as a result, we cannot fail. This has to work. Because if we're going to replicate it elsewhere in Pierce County and around the region, we have to get it right. If we fail, people will look at it and go - well, that didn't work - and that's not something we want to have happen. So like I said, it's embarrassing, but it is what it is and we have to figure out a solution. [00:46:46] Crystal Fincher: What's on deck for solutions? [00:46:48] Councilmember Derek Young: I don't know yet, because we just found out. And so the executive still believes that we can go through with this property and just do a rezone. I will say that just doing a rezone is never a simple thing, particularly when what you have planned for the site is now very public. The other possibility is start looking for other locations. The problem is that - this was always my concern - is that the sites that are affordable for a project like this are also going to be challenged. In this development environment, if it's zoned for density, it's going to be pretty valuable. The other challenge that we had with this site was that it doesn't have sewer adjacent to it. This is kind of on the outskirts of our urban growth area, so while there's urban development around it - and it's right off what was going to be the Cross-Base Highway - it still lacks some basic infrastructure. So all that's why we were getting it for a song and why other developers had looked at it for housing projects and couldn't make it work. But I think we're back to square one in terms of site selection, and we need to start looking around. But it's possible we'll have a proposal here that's fairly straightforward. The most annoying part about this is that we literally had - because this concept is so new - we didn't really have a use allowed for this in our zoning code. So we actually passed a bill two months ago to change zoning code in order to allow for this. We still somehow came up with a site that it doesn't work for. [00:48:37] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, it's a challenge. And this is new, so I'm asking you questions - I understand you may not have the answer yet. This was reported in The News Tribune day before yesterday, I think, on October 26th. And there did seem to be a little bit of - I don't know if I'd call it tension - but difference in opinion on moving forward about the ease or feasibility of that zoning change option. The Pierce County Executive did make it seem like it's something that is definitely doable, even if it's not - hey, we'll take care of it next meeting - in the near future, certainly had the impression that it could be resolved with that. What challenges would prevent that from - from being able to pass a zoning change soon? [00:49:28] Councilmember Derek Young: Yeah, I'm unclear what he's referring to because there was a quote in the newspaper and I called him about this after seeing it that said that we think this may be a 15 or 30-day delay. I don't know what he's talking about. This would require not only a zoning map change, but we believe a comprehensive plan change. So for those that aren't aware of local land use policy, it's - a comp plan change - you're only allowed to touch your comp plan once per year. We've already started our process and so we couldn't add it to this. The next time you could do something is literally over a year from now because you can only make adjustments once per year. If it's just a zoning change, that's what's referred to as an Official Control under our planning rules. And so we have to notify the Department of Commerce with a 60-day comment period. That's just the minimum - maybe nothing comes up and they don't care - but it's still a 60-day period. And then after that, you need to be going to the Planning Commission. The Planning Commission has their own process. And then it finally comes to the council. Our charter requires at least three weeks just to run a bill and that's under ideal conditions. So yeah, I'm not sure what he's talking about there, but this is not a simple change by any means. All that said, I don't think there would necessarily be opposition coming from the council. We were certainly comfortable with the idea before finding the problem, so it's just a matter of the rules that we all have to follow. And what was kind of frustrating about it is hearing him trying to figure out ways around them when he vetoed an emergency ordinance that we passed for Safe Parking a few months ago. And one of the reasons he vetoed it, even though the emergency ordinance is temporary and involves no construction - if you decide you're not going to do it there, you can move the cars - so there's no permanent problem. And yet he used that as one of the objections to the emergency bill. And in this case, we're literally going to spend millions and millions of dollars building a permanent housing development. And we're going to skip the process? I don't see that working. So the council's of one mind on this - the sponsors all pulled their signatures so that we didn't have to - we didn't want to vote to turn it down, that just is a bad look. So everyone's on the same page on the council that this has to be done right. [00:52:27] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. Well, that little nugget sounds encouraging - that you decided to move forward with it, and so it is rules that have to be followed. So could it be potentially - no, this is not a three-week endeavor, but it may be a few months of diligent work and following through the steps and the ability to accommodate the necessary changes then. If it does take a few months or however long that that takes, does that impact the project? Does that impact the cost or anything with that? [00:53:01] Councilmember Derek Young: It will have some impact. It's hard to quantify because everything in the economy is so weird these days, so we will see. But so one thing we had to do, for example, is at the end of the year, our proviso expires, allowing the appropriation that we budgeted for - it's supposed to go back to other homeless services - because at the time we were pretty skeptical that this could work. I see no objection from my colleagues to changing that proviso so that we will stay committed to this. And again, we know we have a problem, like everyone. So we've got this innovative solution. It seems to work really well. The performance in Austin is exceptional compared to other programs. So, the more I've learned about it, the more eager I become. I just think in this instance, it's possible the executive and his staff were a little too eager and didn't do some kind of basic homework. [00:54:09] Crystal Fincher: Well, hopefully you will be there to help him finish that assignment. [00:54:15] Councilmember Derek Young: Unfortunately, I think my successor may need to finish this up for me, but - [00:54:22] Crystal Fincher: Yeah. So it doesn't look like there's a chance by the end of the year, I guess. I guess that looks unlikely. But hopefully the newly composed council is as dedicated to this as the other one was. And with bipartisan support - this was not something that was necessarily squeaked through. [00:54:39] Councilmember Derek Young: No, in fact - it's noteworthy that this was really coming from the Republicans. This was their conception. And so I think that's really good - because to have bipartisan comity on an issue like homelessness is not - it's not common. So I think it's important for us to try to stick together on an issue like this. [00:55:07] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, and to your point - to get going with a model that could be an example for other cities to follow - I think that's a very important thing. And especially for local government - one of the things that I really like about local government and policy - is that everyone has to live in these conditions, everyone has to see. There's more pressure to get away from rhetoric and to actually do something that's addressing the issues that people are seeing with their own eyes and that you're seeing with your own eyes. So there is more of, I think, a motivation to act, especially outside of - sometimes big city politics can get super politicized, but other entities don't always get bogged down by the spectacle of it all. And you're working towards some solution and there's - Hey, there's evidence that this model is working elsewhere, let's give it a go. We certainly need to figure out something that works, other things haven't like they've needed to. So sometimes challenges happen, and sounds like there's cause for optimism that this can be worked through, even if it's with the newly composed council and hopefully we get this up and running. If you work through all this - who knows if it alters the timeline - what was the original timeline for this being built and operational? [00:56:43] Councilmember Derek Young: Yeah, I think the schedule was construction next year and have the first units available at the beginning of 2024, if I'm not mistaken. I may have that a little bit wrong, but by the time you do site development - depending on the season, it can get tough. But that was the hope - is that it would be - the first phase of the project would be fairly soon. And that it is a phased project. So eventually would house 257 units, give or take. Obviously, there may be some site development challenges. And the hope is that everyone sees that this works and then we'll want to throw money at this as an - because that's what's happened in Harris County, Texas, where Austin is. They essentially have the private sector throwing money at them to do more. And they've got a couple thousand of these units that are housing people, and their success rate in terms of rehousing folks in traditional housing is in the 60% - I mean, that's just unheard of in this space. [00:57:59] Crystal Fincher: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I hope - I hope that we still see this coming online in 2024. Seems like that could be doable, but we'll stay tuned and keep people updated on what's happening. And with that, we thank you for listening to Hacks & Wonks on this friday, October 28th, 2022. The producer of Hacks & Wonks is Lisl Stadler. Our assistant producer is Shannon Cheng, and our Production Coordinator is Bryce Cannatelli. Our insightful co-host today is Pierce County Council Chair Derek Young. You can find Derek on Twitter - and he's a good Twitter follow - @DerekMYoung. That's D-E-R-E-K-M Young. You can follow Hacks & Wonks on Twitter @HacksWonks and you can find me on Twitter @finchfrii - it's two I's at the end. You can catch Hacks & Wonks wherever you get your podcasts - just type "Hacks and Wonks" into the search bar. Be sure to subscribe to get the full versions of all of our shows and our Friday almost-live show to your feed. If you like us, please leave a review wherever you can. And you can also get a full transcript of this episode and links to the resources referenced in the show at OfficialHacksandWonks.com and in our episode notes. Thanks for tuning in and we will talk to you next time.

5PM - Kitsap judges' ruling could eventually invalidate tens of thousands DUI convictions statewide // SpaceX Reportedly Fires Employees Over Open Letter Denouncing Elon Musk // San Marcos senior completes 13 years of school with perfect attendance // LETTERS See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

12pm - The Big Lead @ noon // Does WA State Supreme Court impose different standards on police seizures and stops based on race? // Pramila Jayapal's odd tweet over the weekend // GUEST: KelllyAnna Brooking, 14 year old Kitsap girl who is catching flak for her conservative beliefs // Dori says he's glad he's not a kid growing up now See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There has been an update in the story of the Careaga family (episode #207 from just a few weeks ago). Yesterday, on 6 June 2022, authorities announced the arrest of three men associated with the Bandidos Motorcycle Club, charging them with the murders of Johnny Careaga, Christale Carreaga, Johnathan Higgins, and Hunter Schaap...To learn more about this story, read or listen to "The Careaga Family" at the following link:https://unresolved.me/the-careaga-family Researched, written, hosted, and produced by Micheal WhelanMusic composed by Micheal Whelan through Amper MusicIf you would like to support this podcast and others, consider heading to https://www.patreon.com/unresolvedpod to become a Patron or Producer

"I'm dying right now. My family's shot. Hurry."On the evening of 27 January 2017, dispatchers in Kitsap County, Washington received a 911 call from 16-year-old Hunter Schaap. In the call, which lasted less than a minute, the teen pleaded with authorities to rush to the scene.By the time authorities arrived, the home that Hunter lived in with his family was engulfed in flame. After extinguishing the blaze, a search of the house found three bodies inside and evidence of multiple gunshots outside. Missing entirely from the scene was Hunter's father, Johnny Careaga, whose truck had also disappeared...Episode researched & written by Troy LarsonEpisode hosted & produced by Micheal WhelanOriginal music created by Micheal Whelan through Amper MusicLearn more about this podcast at http://unresolved.meIf you would like to support this podcast and others, consider heading to https://www.patreon.com/unresolvedpod to become a Patron or ProducerThis episode is sponsored by StoryWorth, which is an online service that helps you and your loved ones connect through shared stories and memories. Head to https://StoryWorth.com/Unresolved to help support this show and save $10 on your first purchase.

The Kitsap punk scene past and present with member's of Bremerton, Washington's Radical Leftovers. Shawn Devine - Vocals and Bass Guitar Josh Kennedy - Guitar and Backing Vocals   Show! - Sunday March 27th at Tracyton Movie House, Bremerton WA Teenage Bottlerocket, Suzi Moon, The ShockTroopers and Radical Leftovers. Radical Leftovers - Demolition EP out now on Bandcamp Radical Leftovers on Instagram ---------------------------------- You can watch this on my youtube MikeHerreraVideo   MXPX LIVE APRIL 1 HOB Anaheim SOLD OUT! APRIL 2 Tempe AZ TIX Here -- Merch available at www.mxpx.com TEXT LIST - Join our Text list by texting MXPX to 31996 MUSIC -LISTENER CHALLENGE- Listen to MXPX Self Titled Deluxe Album at least once a day. Use hashtag #mxpx or #mxpxsuperchallenge The MXPX Super Challenge Playlist MXPX - Self Titled Deluxe Edition  Mike Herrera - Moment's Like These: TX Mike Herrera - Superman - LISTEN HERE!  I now have an Artist Series Music Man Stingray from Ernie Ball! You can order straight from the shop on the Music Man website.  A portion of proceeds goes to MusicCares!  MIKE HERRERA SIGNATURE SERIES BASS If you like the podcast- Subscribe, rate and review on Apple. Support what I do at MXPX.com  Leave a message with your question on the Mike Herrera Podcast voicemail. (some could be aired on future episodes of the podcast) 360-830-6660 (US number) 3 min limit per message. Producing and editing by Bob McKnight. @bobandkatieshow