Podcasts about poulsbo

BIO: Sandra Van OpstalEXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND CO-FOUNDER OF CHASING JUSTICESandra Maria Van Opstal, a second-generation Latina, is Co-Founder and Executive Director of Chasing Justice, a movement led by people of color to mobilize a lifestyle of faith and justice . She is an international speaker, author, and activist, recognized for her courageous work in pursuing justice and disrupting oppressive systems within the church. As a global prophetic voice and an active community member on the west-side of Chicago, Sandra's initiatives in holistic justice equip communities around the world to practice biblical solidarity and mutuality within various social and cultural locations.https://chasingjustice.com/sandra-van-opstal/ Giving in Chicago: https://newlifecenters.org/ Ordg to follow in chicagohttps://www.icirr.org/ Tshirt https://secure.qgiv.com/for/peoplearenotillegalt-shirt/Danielle (00:09):good afternoon, y'all. I have a second video coming to you from my dear friend and colleague in Chicago, Humboldt Park area, a faith leader there that collaborates with the different faith communities in the area. And she's going to talk about some ways she's personally affected by what's happening by the invasion there and how you can think about things, how you might get involved. I hope you'll join me in this conversation and honor yourself. Stay curious, honor, humanity, get involved. Take collective action. Talk to your own neighbor. Let's start caring really well for one another.Oh wow. Sandra, you know me. This is Jenny McGrath. This is my colleague. She's a bible nut. She wrote out the Bible How many times?Like scripture nut and a researcher, a therapist and purity culture, kind of like Survivor, but did a lot of work with women around that. And we talk a lot about race and current events. And I restarted my podcast and I asked Jenny if she'd want to join me. She has a great love for justice and humans and making a difference. So that's kind of how Jenny joined up with me. Right. Anything else you want to say?Sandra, I saw your post on social media and I was like, I could do that. I could contribute to that. And so that's what I'm here to do. Want to hear about your experience. What does resilience look like for you all over there? What do you need from us? How can we be a part of what's happening in Chicago from wherever we are? And if there's practical needs or things you want to share here, we can also send those out.Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, where you're located in Chicago, and just a little bit even about your family, if you're willing?Sandra (01:40):Yeah, sure. So it's great to be with you guys. I'm Sandra Van Opal and I'm here on the west side of Chicago in a neighborhood called Humble Park. It's if you see in the news with all that's happening, it's the humble Hermosa, Avondale kind of zone of the ice crackdown. Well, let's not call it a crackdown. The ice invasion(02:06):Here in Chicago. I am the daughter of immigrants, so my mom is from Columbia. My father was from Argentina. They came to live in Chicago when they were in their twenties and thirties. They met in English class, so they were taking TOEFL exams, which is an exam you take in order to enter into college and schooling here in the US to show your language proficiency. And so they met learning English and the rest is history. I grew up here. I've lived here my whole life. I'm raising my family here. I'm married. I have two kids that just turned 11, so they're in fifth grade and sixth grade. And the school that they go to is a primarily immigrant school immersion, Spanish immersion. So it's a school where you take classes basically 90% in Spanish when you start and you move every year a little bit more English until you graduate when you're 50 50.(03:03):And so the school context they've been in has been receiving a lot of new neighbors, a lot of new classmates. And for that reason, actually most of their classes are still almost fully in Spanish, so they should probably be 60 40 right now. But I think a lot of their curriculum is still in Spanish, or the children have the option of having the math book in Spanish or English if they want it. If they're supposed to be English Spanish, or sorry, English math this year, then they might choose to have a Spanish book even if the instruction is in English. So that's the context I live in. I am here. I live in a home. I have chickens and a garden, and I love to be outside watching my neighbors and connecting with people. And we have a black club in our community, so a lot of our information that we're sharing with each other is through our email list and our signal group. Yeah. Oh, also what I do, I run an organization called Chasing Justice, which is focused on the intersection of faith and making the world a better place. And I am a local pastor and author on issues of worship and justice. So that's my function in this world.Danielle (04:31):I think we talk about what's happening in one sense, it seems like social media and other ways like Zoom, we're on a screen with Zoom and we're all in three different locations right now. We think of ourselves as really connected. But then when tragedy strikes or trauma or an invasion, for instance, strikes, we're connected, but it seems like we're also disconnected from one another and the practical needs and storytelling on the ground, and what does resilience look like for one person versus another? Or what does survival versus thriving look like for one person versus another? And how do we kind of join together and form a collective bond in that? I've been thinking a lot about that after I read your post Sandra on Instagram and what does that mean for me? And just as I'm talking, what does that mean for you or what are thoughts that come to mind for you?Sandra (05:27):Yeah, I am think I remember what posts you're referring to, but I think part of it is whenever something happens in our world, I believe that because of the highly digitally connected world that we're in, it feels like we are all supposed to say something. That's how we respond. Something happens and we all go, that's not right, which I think is good, we should say that, but I think the frustration, I'm sure people in LA and DC felt that, but it's like something is happening in your real life every day to your neighbors and everybody all around the country is commenting on it and commenting with such confidence and commenting with such expertise, and you're like, wait a minute. That's not how I would say that. And I think the reason that maybe that post came up for me as a kind of, it was less frustration and more sorrow, I think it felt more, more sorrow that the people that are most impacted by the issues are not the ones that are given the voice to talk about how those systems of oppression are impacting them. And I think the reason I think about things like that is I remember when I first started pastoring locally here. I mean, I had been working for a parachurch organization doing national and international work. I really felt like it was time for me to become a local pastor to understand, hey, if I'm going to be writing to pastors and speaking to pastors and challenging pastors, I should probably know what it's like to be one. And so I was supposed to be a five year stint, which ended up being 12 years pastoring locally.(07:08):And in my discussions with my staff team, I would often have one of them very respectfully, I was the executive pastors in a community with hierarchy. So they would very respectfully say, Hey, your friends that are out there blogging and writing articles and books, they're talking about stuff in ways we would never talk about it. They're talking about it in a tone that we would never use to talk about our situation and with words we would never use to describe our situation. And it's not that my friends maybe didn't have a perspective, it's that it didn't reflect their perspective. And so I think I became very sensitive to that, paying attention to, oh, how do expert justice people talk about issues of justice versus the people that are most impacted by those issues of injustice? Or how do people from within a community express their journey in ways that maybe even have a different tone than mostly anger that was coming out from the justice space?(08:10):And they're like, we wouldn't say it that way. We wouldn't talk about it that way. So I think because of that, it's really important when something happens in a local space and it is impacting us all nationally, national news, that we ask the question, how can I hear the voices of the people that this is most impacting? And so that's why I think I wrote that post. I was like, A lot of y'all have a lot to say about Chicago who don't live here and thank you, but no thank you. Invite us to talk for ourselves, invite us to speak for ourselves because there are local pastors and priests and imams and mental health providers who are experiencing this in a very real way that they probably could shed some light on what would be helpful to us. I called a bunch of friends in Los Angeles when things were happening there, and I was like, oh, how are you guys doing?(09:05):What's really happening? How can we help? If you don't have time to reply back, just know that I'm here praying for you, and I'm like with you and I'm sending money to the orgs. I see you posting and don't know what else to do. Obviously, the ice raids are impacting all of us across the country, but they're impacting each city in very different ways. Each city is a very different city with a very different ethos and a way of handling things. And as you guys know, Chicago is the best. I'm so proud of us right now. I'm so proud of us. We're like, no, you can't talk to us like that. No, you can't have our streets. But it also gets us into trouble because it's rooted in our philosophy of community organizing, though the linsky method, which is agitation, agitation, agitation. So we have stuff to learn too. But that's what you're seeing in Chicago is a lot of agitation. But yeah, that's why I wrote it. I wrote it like, I know 20 community leaders you could talk to here in Chicago that would give you a good idea of what we're experiencing and what would be best for us if you wanted to come alongside of us and help in prayer. So yeah.Jenny (10:27):Yeah, I think just a sense of wanting to hear more, whatever you feel. Well, and whatever feels safe to share in this podcast setting of just what it has been like for you to be on the ground in the community that you're in, in the roles that you're in with the family you're in. I just find myself curious about your experience.Sandra (10:52):Yeah. Okay. So I think about this in three different areas. One is, how is this impacting me as a parent, the other in my family and connected to family members. The other one is how is this impacting me as a neighbor? And then the other is, how is this impacting me as a civic leader, as a faith leader here? And so the hardest one has actually been, as a parent, if I could be honest with you, it's really been hard. Those of us that have raised kids, especially younger children or well all children, they each have their own season of development. But raising kids and being a village for children right now I think is really hard. They've gone through lockdown, George Floyd protests, watching multiple genocides, a war in Ukraine, and now this locally. And I believe in talking to your kids about what's happening and talking to them about it in ways that is appropriate for their age. So that has changed for me since my children were five when the pandemic started and now they're 11. That has changed for me what that looks like.(12:32):But there are many families, dozens of families in their school that have not returned since the ice raids have started. Their friends are missing from class. Ice has repeatedly been around their school. Ice has been on our corner where we grocery shop, get tacos, go to therapy. My son asked me the other day, will they throw me on the ground? If they see me, will they throw me on the ground? And this is one of my sons already struggles a lot with anxiety and he has anxiety, and he's also a black child. And so he's already been processing being black in the context of law enforcement in our city and what's happened. And so I think he kind of went through that season and he's like, so will they throw me on the ground if they see me? And I'm like, no, buddy. They're not going to. Hopefully there's enough cameras around that they'll throw you on the ground.(13:42):And so I think trying to figure out how to answer those kinds of questions. How can we think about our friends? How can we pray for our friends? We've done a lot more prayer in the 15 minute commutes to and from school, I think just for very specific needs that our neighbors are going through. And neighbor that I live in close proximity to the other day was running an errand and was detained by ice and was let go on the spot in the parking lot of the Home Depot, but its someone our kids know really well and helping them to process that. Their friend, a neighbor has gone through this, I think requires a different set of parenting skills and I believe are in most parenting books.(14:48):And so I find myself almost, man, I wish there was a resource for that man. I wish there was a place to talk about that. Let me talk to my neighbor about how they talk to their kids about that. And for those of us that come from Latino cultures, we don't really talk about hard things a lot. We're not really taught to talk about them. It's like we endure them and we go through them, but we don't give them space for processing. And so both of my children are in therapy. I don't know what they talk about in therapy, probably girls and love interests and bullying and all the rest of the things that kids talk about, but I think they probably unpack some of what they're going through with their friends. They are also wanting to make a difference. So we're trying to figure out what does that look for them to make things good in the community they live in.(15:42):So that's the first area is parenting. I don't know if you guys have anything to add advice to give me on that, but I think the hardest thing for me is what do we do with our children? What do we do with a generation that is growing up, watching their government step over so many boundaries, doing things that are completely illegal or unethical or dangerous for our society and feeling like, Hey, we're living in a time, I know a lot of people posted the quote from Ann Frank talking about what was happening in their streets. And I'm like, yeah, my kids are watching that. And I don't know how they're processing it or where they see their faith in the midst of that. I mean, luckily we have an amazing church. We talk about stuff like that all the time. So I mean, yeah, the mayor goes to our church and the pastor's an amazing person, and we have lots of civic leaders and law enforcement in our church. So I think they're watching, they're able to have some mentorship in that area, I think because spoken about from the pulpit, but man, being little must be really hard right now.Danielle (17:09):Maybe we don't need to press too fast, even though we're in a podcast right now. I think it bears the weight of just a little bit of space to just hang with that comment. I have older kids than you. As recently, I told my 20-year-old son who we are not suffering yet, the street raids. For some reason, Seattle hasn't been the focus point yet, but he did lose his federal aid and his Pell grants and everything for college this year. And so him and a lot of other kids had a significant do have a significant college tuition to make up. And we were talking about it and I was like, well, this will be the normal for you. This will be what's normal. This will be what's normal for our family. And my husband actually stepped in and said to me in a moment of despair and lament, because my son wants to be a music teacher.(18:21):He said to me, he's like, but you always tell me nothing's impossible. We can figure it out. And I was like, yeah, I do say that, but I don't believe it right now. He is like, well, he's like, I believe it right now. So I don't know what it looks like to come up with an extra for us. It's an extra $6,000, so we don't have the money yet, but what does it look like? But I think it goes back to that sense of finding some balance with our kids of what's real, what's not giving. What I hear for you, Sandra, and I'm kind of fumbling through my words, so maybe Jenny can step in, but offering our kids the validation of their reality that's so important in age appropriate and the different steps we're in the validation of reality. But I also find myself searching and grasping for where's the hope? Where are the strands of faith for our family? Where are the strands of hope searching for? Like you said, what are the practical actions your boys can do that also kind of I think plant seeds and generate hope in their hearts when we can step out and do actions?Sandra (19:43):Yeah. No, I think the hard part is I can't promise them things will get better. I can't promise them there's going to be an end to genocide in Palestine. I can't promise them. I keep telling everyone, when we pray at night and we talk about our days and stuff, and I just tell 'em, we, my husband and I tell 'em, and the only thing we can promise you is that God is with us. And I think the reality is when you've had proximity to our global siblings, that suffering didn't just start two Octobers ago or even for our own families. The suffering as my African brother once told me at a conference, he said, what do you mean when we suffer? Life is suffering and suffering is life. Or if we suffer, someone said, yeah, if we suffer, it's like some pretty from the west if we suffer.(20:35):It's like no, life is suffering and suffering is life. So I think part of it is we have within our story as people who follow the Jesus way, we have a story of people who have really always suffered. The story of scripture is a story of marginalized, persecuted, displaced people that are wandering in a land looking for home. And in those stories, you find God's presence with them. You find the worship of their creator. You find moments of joy, rhythms of feasting and fasting. You find all the traditions we do now that come out of the story of the people. So I can tell them, baby, I can only promise you that God is with us the same way that God was with, we go through the stories and the same way that God has always been with the black church in America, the same way that God has always been with our Latino community, the same way that God is with our siblings in Gaza, God is with us.(21:35):And so it doesn't take the pain away, but we can know that God is there. I try to teach my kids, lemme tell you, this is so bad parenting. Sorry, you can cut this out if you need to. But the other day we were praying for our country and I said, God, I just pray. Pray for Trump. I pray God, either you would change his heart or you would help him to go to sleep and just not wake up tomorrow. And then my son was like, I can't believe you prayed that prayer. Mom, I can't believe you said that. That's such a bad prayer. I was like, have you read the Psalms?(22:12):I was like, tonight, let's read a psalm. I'm going to read to you what David prayed for his enemies. And just because the Bible calls us to love our enemies and to see them as human does not mean we cannot pray that they will fall asleep. And so I said, I'm not saying I'm going to do anything bad. I know my phone's listening to me right now. I'm not saying I'm going to take matters into my own hands. I'm just saying I wouldn't be sad. That's all. And he's like, he just could not get over it because, and he just kept digging. Papa, Papa would never pray a prayer like that. He would never, I said, Papa hasn't read the Psalms. I read the Psalms. I know exactly what the Psalms say. And I was like, and the thing is because God is for good, because God is against evil and because God knows my heart, he knows God knows how much I love him, and I'm asking him to please take this evil away from our neighborhood.(23:04):Please take this evil away from our country. Please take this evil away. We're living in evil times, Terry. These are bad times. And this is not only a bad person. This is somebody that's raising up all of the badness to be allowed. And so I'm going to pray that prayer every day. And I know that you think it's not good, and I'm so sorry, but tonight we'll read the Psalms. Then that night we read some Psalms. I was like, see what David prays for his enemy. I said, and the thing is, God is there with us in our prayers. He's not like, what? I can't believe she cussed. I can't believe she said that bad. I can't believe she want to be friends with this guy that's too evil. And so I think part of it's processing faith with them. It's like, I don't know what kind of, let's just talk about Jesus and what he said. Let's talk about what the Bible models for us and prayer. Let's talk about It's okay to be mad. It's okay. It's okay to want evil to end. It doesn't mean we take things into our own hands, but it's okay to want the evil to end. And so those are the kinds of conversations where I go home, I'm like, okay, let me just look at my stuff. Is that wrong? Is that theologically correct? I called my husband. Do you think this is theologically okay? Am I mal forming our children? But I feel like it's an okay prayer, isn't it an okay prayer? Those are the kinds of things that are happening. I don't know,Jenny (24:37):I mean, I am not a theologian, but I think it's an okay prayer to pray. And I'm just thinking about, I've had two thoughts going through my mind, and one of course I couldn't and wouldn't want to put on some type of silver lining and be like, kids are going to be fine. They're resilient. And something that we say in the somatic trauma world a lot is that trauma isn't about an event. It's often about not having a safe place to go in the midst of or after an event. And what I just keep hearing is you making yourself available to be a safe place for your kids to process and reimagine what moving through this moment looks like. And also holding that in families that are being torn apart, that don't have those safe places to go in this moment. And I think part of what we're experiencing is this term, the boomerang of imperialism, as you said, these are not new things happening to families all over the world. And the ricochet of how we are now experiencing that in the heart of the empire, where I find my sense of hope is that that is the sign that the snake is eating its head and it will collapse. And I believe in rebirth and regrowth and hope that we can create a world that is different than a world that builds empires that do this to families. And as where my mind goes.Sandra (26:39):Yeah. And I think for ourselves, for our children, for in the work that I do with chasing justice with activists, it's like the only thing I can do, I'm not going to be able to change the world. The only thing I can do is change the little world that I'm in. So what can I do to make a difference and make things good in the world that I'm in? And so it boils down to very, very practical, tangible, embodied unfancy. Things like calling your neighbors and checking in on them to see if they need you to take their kids to school, finding out if everybody got home, okay. When there was a raid in a particular area, asking, or not even asking, but dropping food off for people and saying, Hey, we made a grocery room. We just thought we'd pick up some essentials for everybody.(27:27):Because part of it too is how do you do that without asking your, how do you help your neighbor without asking your neighbor their status? And that's not appropriate. And how do you help your neighbor without assuming they don't have money or making them feel like some kind of project? And so I think part of it is figuring out how to practice mutual aid in ways that are communal that just says, Hey, we picked up this. We figured this week we'd drop it off to five different families, and next week we'll do five other families. Who knows if they need it or not, but at least they know you're thinking of them. I think something you said about trauma, which I think is really important when you work in communities where you have communal, collective, complex generational trauma, which is we're just always living in this.(28:19):I have status, so I don't worry about leaving my home. I also am white. I'm a white Latina, so I'm not like, well, maybe they'll pull me over. Well, I don't know. But I know if I was browner my other family members that would definitely be like, please carry a copy of your passport and your ID at all times. But now I don't leave the house without, I used to leave the house with my keys and my phone, maybe a wallet. I don't know where a wallet is. Now I'm like, oh, I better have my ID on me(28:48):Mostly because if I intervene, I'm afraid if I get arrested, I won't have ID on me. But I think about all the ways that you have to leave the house differently now. And this is for people that they already felt vulnerable in their TPS, in their temporary protective status status or in their undocumented status or in their green card holder status or whatever status they had, that they already felt vulnerable in some way. And now if they don't go to work, their family doesn't eat, so they leave the house. But how do they leave the house? If you go to school every day and you're wondering if your parents are going to pick you up because now you're aware you have this emergency family plan, what does that feel like day in and day out, decade after decade to feel vulnerable? That kind of trauma is something I don't understand in my body, though I understand it as a concept.(29:47):It's the trauma of feeling vulnerable at all times of sending your kids out into the world. And because our US Supreme Court and because our government has decided it's okay to racially profile people, so I keep telling my mom, you better not be speaking Spanish at Target. She's bilingual. I'm like, please do not speak Spanish at Target. Do not open your mouth. And I would never have said that ever in the past, super proud of being a Latina and being bilingual, but I'm scared for my mom. And so I'm checking in on family members who have vulnerable status. I'm trying to find out if everybody's okay. So I think there are, it's like I told my husband the other day, and the car was like, can you imagine having this kind of fear day in and day out for decades at a time in a country and building a life?(30:44):And all of a sudden, many of our DACA recipients or young undocumented folks that are in college, all of a sudden they're not going to finish their degree. They're now in a country they don't even know. They didn't grow up there in a language they don't understand or their spouse is missing. And now they don't know if they're in Swatee, they don't know if they're in Mexico. They don't know where they are. And so I think that, I don't know that I fully understand what to do about that as a neighbor or as a pastor, but to say there must be something within the community like some gift or strength or accessing that helps them endure that kind of trauma when they cannot reach out for help.(31:44):My brother also told me the other day, he's an ER doctor. He's like, man, the county ER is so empty right now because people go to the county hospital for services when they don't have insurance. And many, many of them are Asian, south Asian, Latino, and African immigrants, and now they're not going or Ukrainian or Russian or whatever. So now it's emptiness and churches. Some of our churches are used to be 300 people now. There's like 40 people on a Sunday. So the reporting that I'm hearing from, whether it's the hospitals or just the stores, if you drive down our street, it's like empty nest. It is never empty. There's always people walking around on the street, whole family is going grocery shopping now. There's just nobody out. It's like a ghost town. Nobody's leaving unless they have to leave. And so it changes the feel of a community. It changes the environment. People that need access to healthcare aren't going for their follow-up appointments or their treatments because they're afraid to go to the hospital. People that would normally go to law enforcement if there's domestic violence or something happening, which already would feel very, very difficult to do, are unwilling to do it because they're afraid to leave and afraid to report to any law enforcement. Even in a sanctuary city.(33:18):I don't know what's happening to these families that aren't going to school. I'm assuming that the school has some kind of e-learning doing for them or some kind of packets they're making for the kids in the meantime while they're missing school. But there's all these things that daily rhythms of life that aren't happening. And so for many of us are like, I don't feel like going to church today. Oh, well, I feel like I'm many Sundays. I don't feel like going to church for other people, the privilege of attending worship in a congregational setting is something they'd love to have that they just can't access anymore. And so there's all these things that have changed about our daily reality that I don't know if we're going to fully understand how that's impacted us until years from now. We just don't see an end to it. We're not sure when this is going to end.Danielle (34:13):I have a flurry of thoughts going through my mind as you're speaking. One is when I did a consult with my analyst that I consult with, and we were talking about anxiety around different things with clients, and she was like, well, that's not anxiety, that's terror. And this person should feel terror because that's the reality.(34:45):That's not a pathology. So that's number one just in the therapy world, we don't want to pathologize people for feeling this terror in their bodies when that's actually the appropriate response. When immigration is sitting outside on your street, you should feel terror. Your body's giving you the appropriate warning signal. So I think about just even the shortcomings of Western psychological frameworks to address what's happening. We can't pathologize. It's not about prescribing enough medication. It's not about that. I do think you're right. I think there's some sense of, I've even felt it in my own body as you talk, a sense of, I'm going to engage what Sandra's saying and I'm also going to separate myself just enough in case that happens in Seattle so I can be just distant enough. So I got to get up, I got to eat. I got to feed my kids, I got to make sure everything's happening, got to go to work.(35:40):So I can almost feel it happening. As you describe it, we call it dissociation in psychology world, but in my analyst world, she would call it a psychic retreat, which I really like. Your psyche is kind of in a battle. You might come back from the front line to preserve yourself. And that's kind of how I think of the collective mentality a bit come back from the front lines in certain ways. So you could preserve, I need to eat, I need to sleep, I need to drink some water. I need to breathe air. So that's one thing I'm thinking about that's maybe collectively happening on multiple levels. The other thing I'm thinking about is if you're listening to this and you're in a body, even mine, a same as you, like a light-skinned Latina, white Latina, and our family has a lot of mixed identities and statuses, but if you're not in one of these situations, you can help mental health by going out and getting shit done.Sandra (36:50):Yes, absolutely. Get it done, get it done, get it done. It's like show up, put yourself. I think that's half the battle is how do we show up in spaces? I think white folks have to ask themselves. That's why all the protests, it's like, yes, it's diverse, but it's a whole lot of white people.The reason is because a lot of black folks, brown folks, vulnerable folks, we're not going to put ourselves in a position where we can have an encounter with law enforcement. So one of the things I have to say, talking about church, one of the things our pastor said the Sunday before, not the No Kings, but the immigration protest, it was like maybe a month ago, he said, listen, some of us should not be at that protest because we have a record, because we are prone to be maybe, what is it called? Oh my gosh, we're prone to be singled out by the police. We should not be there. We should pray. We should stay at home. We should host people when they come back and feed them. We should not be there. Others of us, we should be there. And you know who you are.(37:55):And so I think that's part of the discernment, which I think that's literally, it's half the conversations I'm having with people is should my children go to this protest? I fully intended to go to the No Kings protest with my full family, all of us. And I also saw these amazing alternatives like a rally for families and children. And so all these parks all over the city of Chicago, which again, were an amazing city, they had all these alternatives for if your child, someone in your family does not do crowds well, right? You're immunocompromised or you have anxiety, or I thought about, oh, maybe we shouldn't take my son to this protest. Maybe he's going to actually get an anxiety attack. Maybe we should go to this. So we had all those options till the very last minute we're decided to go to Kids Rally, but there were options for us to show up.(38:43):So when you can show up, show up if your neighborhood, there's a ton of activities in, I hope other cities are doing this too, but they're packing these little zines and these little whistles and they're telling people what to do. It's like, okay, now there's this Instagram blast about, oh, the ice is over here, and everyone shows up in their cars and they all honk their horn. You can show up in a neighborhood, honk your horn, you can blow a whistle. And we're fully intending to give away free whistles for every person that buys. The people are not a legal t-shirt for chasing justice. We're like, have a whistle. Get ready. If anything, even if you never blow that whistle, no ice in your town, you're trying to show people that I'm prepared. I'm prepared to raise my voice for you. I'm prepared to show up for you.(39:34):And so it ends up being maybe an artifact or a symbol of our willingness to ally if the time should come. But yeah, some of us, we have more privilege and showing up because I definitely have two lawyers in my speed dial right now because my husband knows that I'm prone to show up in spaces and say things that maybe will get me in trouble. So we had a meeting with a lawyer three weeks ago. He's like, please tell me what to do if my wife gets arrested or if something happens to a neighbor or he's just prepared our community block club emails and texts and signal threads. We have rapid response ready things that are rapid response. So it's like, Hey, where do you see something? I see this is the license plate. Here's a video. I saw just even informing people and praying alongside of one another.(40:29):So we have this group of pastors we gather called Pastors Rabbis and Imams called Faith Over Fear. And so in this group, someone posted like, look at Ice was heavily in our neighborhood. They said arrests that were made or the people that were detained. This is the situation, let people know. So we're just letting people know this is what's happening. Teaching people to use their phones to record everything and anything they can always being ready to show up. So I'm the type of neighbor that would anyway, if I would see law enforcement pulling over a young black or brown man, I would pull the car over and I would get out of my car and I would say, hi, I am Reverend Sandra and I'm here. I live down the street. I'm wondering if everything's okay. Here is everything. And the reason is just to show them that I'm watching. They said, no, everything's fine. I said, okay, I'm just going to sit in my car. Let me know if you need something because I'm letting them know that I'm watching.(41:37):And so I think part of it is the accountability of a community. And I love to see the walking school buses, the ride shares that parents are doing the grocery dropoffs because you can't stand in the food pantry line anymore. The GoFundMe's for particular legal fees, the trying to utilize your networks to find out if you can figure out what district or what holding location you, your loved one would be in offering mental health services. Like, Hey, here are the three organizations that do group therapy or circles or there's going to be a meditation and yoga thing offered at this center. A lot of them have a lot of embodied practices too. So I think those things are great. But yeah, we still have to, we're still living life. We're still submitting book reports for school, we're still having birthday parties and christenings, we're we still black and brown communities have been living through trauma for so long, they can't stop living.(42:53):So the question is how do we invite one another to more wholeness in our living, within our own communities, and then how do we help one another? This is affecting everybody. It's affecting not only Latino communities and not only Asian immigrant communities, but it's also affecting black communities because there's more enforcement and they're not more law enforcement and they're not necessarily targeting black communities, but where there are brown communities, sometimes there are black folks also. And so it's impacting them in just the militarization of our city. I mean, everywhere you go, there's just people marching with weapons and it could be Michigan Avenue in the shopping area downtown near the Bean, or it could be in our communities. And so I think how people are trying to, I think a city like Chicago, because it's got such a rich tradition of community organizing and community development and advocacy, I think it's very set up for what can I do in my world for my neighbors?(44:08):And then for those of you that aren't in Chicago, I think knowing which organizations are doing fantastic things, I think that's really helpful. Within the faith and justice space, I think organizations like New Life Centers that are kind of spearheading some of the new neighbors initiatives already, but they're doing this whole care system for, they're already new neighbors from Venezuela, Ecuador, and Central America who are now more vulnerable. And so they have systems in place for that. There are organizations live free Illinois who are doing more of the advocacy, raising awareness stuff. I can give you a couple, I can put in the show notes, but I think there's organizations that are doing fantastic work. Some people are just, I have a friend who's in Houston who's just like, there's a refugee family who's vulnerable right now and I need to take them groceries. Who wants to give Venmo?(45:06):Me? I think you have to trust your friends aren't going to go out for a nice rooftop beverage and 300, $400 later. Then there's groceries for this. So it's like you may not know anyone, but you may know someone who knows someone who's vulnerable. And so maybe you just are giving money to, or maybe you, I've had people send me money and be like, Hey, maybe someone who needs something. And I'm like, great. And we little, we put it cash and we put it in our car and when we need it, we help a neighbor who's in need. I think I'm calling our friends to, another one I thought of was calling our friend, inviting our friends to action. So sometimes I don't think it's that we don't want to do anything or that we're unwilling to do something. It's that we just feel so stunned. So that news that came out this week in Houston about the 15-year-old autistic boy who was taken by ICE and who has the capacity of a 4-year-old, and I was thinking about him all day long. So I just started pinging all of my friends in Houston and Austin and Dallas. I was like, anybody in Texas? I have a lot of friends in Texas. I'm like, not just, Hey Texas, do something directly. Sending it to them and saying, what have you done?(46:28):Is there a number you can call? Can you gather your small group? They're always asking, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to, I'm like, so I was like, I have something for you to do, and it's in Texas. I'm like, do you know what's happened to this kid? Is he back at home? Can you do something? Is there a GoFundMe for the parents? So I think when we're activated in small things, we develop the discipline of just being activated in general. So it's like if there's a thing that somebody invites you to give to and you give to it, then you get into the practice of giving.(47:06):If you don't start well, then where is it going to happen? So we're thinking right now, I dunno about you guys, but there's nothing in me that wants to do anything fancy right now. I rest for sure. We went to Michigan, we walked around, we took hikes. It was great. It was super free because we stayed with a friend. But there's nothing in me that's like, let me just plan a fancy vacation right now. It's not in me. And I think part of it is, it's almost like a detoxing from an American consumeristic way of seeing celebration and rests. I don't need fancy things to have rest. I don't need, doesn't have to be expensive. I don't know who came up with this. And I think it's a sensibility in us right now, and I've talked to a couple of friends about it, but it's like it's a sensibility in us that feels like it's really tone deaf to start spending a whole lot of money right now when there are so many needs in the world. And no, we can't give away our whole salaries, but we might be able to give more. For example, I don't think our friend should be saying, Hey, my son can't go to college this year. He needs $6,000. I think somebody in our friend groups could be like, actually, I am getting a bonus of $12,000. I'm going to give you three. We should be able to do that for those of us that have access.(48:27):And there are many people who have access, many other people who think they don't have money, but they do. And I think if we invite each other to say, Hey, I want to give to this person's legal fees, or I want to give to this person's college fund, or I want to give to will you give with me? And we are practicing then the kind of mutual aid that's collective that I know our grandparents did for the Latino culture, it's like the RIA system where y'all put the money in every month and every Monday the month. So it's like Koreans do it too. It's like everybody gives a hundred dollars a month and all goes into this pile and every month that pile of money moves around. So it's like our way of providing, I think there's a lot more we could be doing with our money that would give integrity to our voice. And I see a lot of talking and not a lot of sharing.Danielle (49:34):It's so true. It's a lot of talking and it's like, I think we have to get over that old white supremacy norm. If you see somebody on the street, you got to buy them food. You can't ever give them cash. That story rings through my mind as a child and just sometimes you just got to load up the cash, send someone cash for dinner and send someone cash for, I don't know, whatever they need, a bus fare or an airplane ticket or find the miles in your community if someone needs to fly somewhere. Just all these things you're talking about, we kind of have to just get over the hump and just say, Hey, people need help. Let's just go help.Sandra (50:12):And for some of us, I think it's particularly of those of us within our community that are no longer congregating at a local church. I don't know. Did you think the tithe justI think the call to generosity is still there. Whether you want to call your church a local formal traditional church or not, I would hate, I would've hated in our season that we were churchless to have stopped giving out would've been a significant amount of money that would've stopped going out. We still got salaries that year. Well, at least Carl did. Carl got a salary. So I'm like that invitation to generosity, at least at the bare minimum, at the bare minimum, 10% at the bare minimum that should be going out. And so the question is, what did all of us that left churches do with our 10% not to be legalistic because really we should be giving more. The question is, what am I allowed to keep? And for people making six figures, you need to be asking yourselves, why do you need six figures if you don't? Because most of the people, even in places like Seattle and Chicago, are living off of $50,000 a year. So I think as much as we need to ask our government to do well and be integrous in their budget, I think we need to think about that as a place of, and I say that not because I think it's going to solve the problems in Chicago, but I think that money does actually sharing does actually help some people. They haven't eaten.(52:06):They just haven't eaten. We know families whose kids don't eat.Jenny (52:19):Just thank you. It's been really important and meaningful to have your voice and your call to action and to community. I don't take lightly sharing your story and how it's specifically showing up in your community and in your own body and in your own mothering. So thank you for speaking to how you are practicing resilience and how we can think more about how to practice that collectively. It's been really, really good to be here. I am sorry I have to jump off, but thank you Danielle. I'll see you all soon.Sandra (53:23):Yeah, I mean even if you were to think about, you may not be able to provide for anyone, but is there someone in your ecosystem, in your friend group that could really use four sessions of therapy that doesn't have the finances to do so? Or that could really use sessions of acupuncture or massage therapy that doesn't have the money for it, it doesn't have insurance, and of someone who's willing to work with you on that as far as providing that for them. So I think even at that level, it's like if we had to put ourselves in someone else's shoes and say, well, what I want for someone, how would I want for someone to help me without me asking them? I think that is the biggest thing is we cannot, I don't believe we can rely on a person's ability to say what they need.(54:27):I mean, you've had stuff happen in your life. I've had health issues in my own family and problems with my family, and when people are like, oh, how can I help? I'm like, I can't think about that right now. But if a plant shows up at my house that is bringing me joy. Someone just sent me a prayer plant the other day. It's literally called a red prayer plant or something. I was like, yes, I love this. Or if someone buys dinner for my family so I don't have to cook for them, I can't stand up right now. Or if someone said, looks in on me and says, Hey, I know you guys can't be out and about much, so I just wanted to give you some funding for a streaming service. Here you go. Whatever they use it for, that's up to them. But I think to let someone know that you're thinking about them, I think is easy to do with baking something for them, sharing something with them, taking their kids for a few hours.(55:31):Because what if they just need a break from their children and maybe you could just watch their kids for a little bit, pick them up, take them to your house, watch them for a little bit. So I think there are ways that we can practically help each other that again, will make a world of difference to the person that's there next to you. And as always, calling your senators, writing letters, joining in on different campaigns that organizations are doing for around advocacy, checking in with your local city officials and your parent teacher and your schools, and figuring out what are we doing for the kids in our school even to be informed as a neighbor, what is it that our school's doing to protect our families and children? I think those are all good questions that we should always be doing and praying for people and praying specifically. We do that as a family. I think sometimes I don't know what else to do, but to say God to help.Danielle (56:35):Yeah, I mean, I have to go now, but I do think that's kind of key is not that God isn't going to intervene at some point practically, I think we are that active prayer answer for other people we're that answer. I'm not saying we're God, but we're the right. Yeah. Yeah. And just to step into that, be that answer, step into loving when it says, love your neighbor actually doing it and actually showing up and maybe loving your neighbor isn't bringing them dinner. Maybe it's just sitting down and listening to how their day went. Maybe you're not a therapist, maybe you're just a friend. Maybe you're just a community member, but you can sit in and you can hear how rough it was for that day and not take up your own space emotionally, but just be there to listen and then give them a hug and hang or leave. There's a lot of ways to show up and yeah, I'm challenged and want to do this more, so thank you. You'reSandra (57:36):Welcome. Thanks for having me.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Danielle (00:20):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations about reality and talking a lot about what that means in the context of church, faith, race, justice, religion, all the things. Today, I'm so honored to have Sarah Van Gelder, a community leader, an example of working and continuing to work on building solidarity and networks and communication skills and settling into her lane. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hey, Sarah, it's so good to be with you. And these are just casual conversations, and I do actual minimal editing, but they do get a pretty good reach, so that's exciting. I would love to hear you introduce yourself. How do you introduce yourself these days? Tell me a little bit about who you are. Okay.Sarah (01:14):My name is Sarah Van Gelder and I live in Bremer and Washington. I just retired after working for the Suquamish Tribe for six years, so I'm still in the process of figuring out what it means to be retired, doing a lot of writing, a certain amount of activism, and of course, just trying to figure out day to day, how to deal with the latest, outrageous coming from the administration. But that's the most recent thing. I think what I'm most known for is the founding yes magazine and being the editor for many years. So I still think a lot about how do we understand that we're in an era that's essentially collapsing and something new may be emerging to take its place? How do we understand what this moment is and really give energy to the emergence of something new? So those are sort of the foundational questions that I think about.Danielle (02:20):Okay. Those are big questions. I hadn't actually imagined that something new is going to emerge, but I do agree there is something that's collapsing, that's disintegrating. As you know, I reached out about how are we thinking about what is reality and what is not? And you can kind of see throughout the political spectrum or community, depending on who you're with and at what time people are viewing the world through a specific lens. And of course, we always are. We have our own lens, and some people allow other inputs into that lens. Some people are very specific, what they allow, what they don't allow. And so what do we call as reality when it comes to reality and politics or reality and faith or gender, sexuality? It's feeling more and more separate. And so that's kind of why I reached out to you. I know you're a thinker. I know you're a writer, and so I was wondering, as you think about those topics, what do you think even just about what I've said or where does your mind go?Sarah (03:32):Yeah. Well, at first when you said that was the topic, I was a little intimidated by it because it sounded a little abstract. But then I started thinking about how it is so hard right now to know what's real, partly because there's this very conscious effort to distort reality and get people to accept lies. And I think actually part of totalitarian work is to get people to just in the Orwellian book 1984, the character had to agree that two plus two equals five. And only when he had fully embraced that idea could he be considered really part of society.(04:14):So there's this effort to get us to accept things that we actually know aren't true. And there's a deep betrayal that takes place when we do that, when we essentially gaslight ourselves to say something is true when we know it's not. And I think for a lot of people who have, I think that's one of the reasons the Republican party is in such trouble right now, is because so many people who in previous years might've had some integrity with their own belief system, have had to toss that aside to adopt the lies of the Trump administration, for example, that the 2020 election was stolen. And if they don't accept those lies, they get rejected from the party. And once you accept those lies, then from then on you have betrayed yourself. And in many ways, you've betrayed the people who trust you. So it's a really tough dilemma sort of at that political level, even for people who have not bought into the MAGA mindset, or I do think of it as many people have described as a cult.(05:31):Now, even for people who have not bought into that, I think it's just really hard to be in a world where so many fundamental aspects of reality are not shared with people in your own family, in your own workplace, in your own community. I think it's incredibly challenging and we don't really know, and I certainly don't know how to have conversations. In fact, this is a question I wanted to ask you to have conversations across that line of reality because there's so much places where feelings get hurt, but there's also hard to reference back to any shared understanding in order to start with some kind of common ground. It feels like the ground is just completely unreliable. But I'd love to hear your thoughts about how you think about that.Danielle (06:33):It's interesting. I have some family members that are on the far, far, including my parent, well, not my parents exactly, but my father, and I've known this for a while. So prior to what happened in a couple weeks ago with the murder of an activist, I had spent a lot of time actually listening to that activist and trying to understand what he stood for, what he said, why my family was so interested in it. I spent time reading. And then I also was listening to, I don't know if you're familiar with the Midas Touch podcast? Yeah. So I listened to the Midas Brothers, and they're exact opposites. They're like, one is saying, you idiot, and the other one is like, oh, you're an idiot. And so when I could do it, when I had space to do it, it was actually kind of funny to me.(07:34):Sometimes I'm like, oh, that's what they think of someone that thinks like me. And that's when that guy says, calls them an idiot. I feel some resonance with that. So I did that a lot. However, practically speaking, just recently in the last couple months, someone reached out to me from across the political ideology line and said, Hey, wouldn't it be fun if we got together and talked? We think really differently. We've known each other for 20 years. Could you do that? So I said, I thought about it and I was like, yeah, I say this, I should act on it. I should follow through. So I said, okay, yeah, let's meet. We set up a time. And when you get that feeling like that person's not going to show up, but you're also feeling like, I don't know if I want them to show up.(08:24):Am I really going to show up? But it's kind of like a game of chicken. Well, I hung in there longer, maybe not because I wanted to show up, but just because I got distracted by my four kids and whatnot, and it was summer, and the other person did say, oh, I sprained my ankle. I can't have a conversation with you. I was like, oh, okay. And they were like, well, let me reschedule. So I waited. I didn't hear back from them, and then they hopped onto one of my Facebook pages and said some stuff, and I responded and I said, Hey, wait a minute. I thought we were going to have a conversation in person. And it was crickets, it was silence, it was nothing. And then I was tagged in some other comments of people that I would consider even more extreme. And just like, this is an example of intolerance.(09:13):And I was like, whoa, how did I get here? How did I get here? And like I said, I'm not innocent. I associate some of the name calling and I have those explicit feelings. And I was struck by that. And then in my own personal family, we started a group chat and it did not go well. As soon as we jumped into talking about immigration and ice enforcement and stuff after there were two sides stated, and then the side that was on the far right side said, well, there's no point in talking anymore. We're not going to convince each other. And my brother and I were like, wait a minute, can we keep talking? We're not going to convince each other, but how can we just stop talking? And it's just been crickets. It's been silence. There's been nothing. So I think as you ask me that, I just feel like deep pain, how can we not have the things I think, or my perception of what the other side believes is extremely harmful to me and my family. But what feels even more harmful is the fact that we can't even talk about it. There's no tolerance to hear how hurtful that is to us or the real impact on our day-to-day life. And I think this, it's not just the ideology, but it's the inability to even just have some empathy there. And then again, if you heard a guy like Charlie Kirk, he didn't believe in empathy. So I have to remember, okay, maybe they don't even believe in empathy. Okay, so I don't have an answer. What about you?Sarah (11:03):No, I don't either. Except to say that I think efforts that are based on trying to convince someone of a rational argument don't work because this is not about analysis or about rationality, it's about identity, and it's about deep feelings of fear and questions of worthiness. And I think part of this moment we're in with the empire collapsing, the empire that has shorn up so much of our way of life, even people who've been at the margins of it, obviously not as much, but particularly people who are middle class or aspiring to be middle class or upper, that has been where we get our sense of security, where we get our sense of meaning. For a lot of white people, it's their sense of entitlement that they get to have. They're entitled to certain kinds of privileges and ways of life. So if that's collapsing and I believe it is, then that's a very scary time and it's not well understood. So then somebody comes along who's a strong man like Trump and says, not only can I explain it to you, but I can keep you safe. I can be your vengeance against all the insults that you've had to live with. And it's hard to give that up because of somebody coming at you with a rational discussion.(12:36):I think the only way to give that up is to have something better or more secure or more true to lean into. Now that's really hard to do because part of the safety on the right is by totally rejecting the other. And so my sense is, and I don't know if this can possibly work, but my sense is that the only thing that might work is creating nonpolitical spaces where people can just get to know each other as human beings and start feeling that yes, that person is there for me when things are hard and that community is there for me, and they also see me and appreciate who I am. And based on that kind of foundation, I think there's some hope. And so when I think about the kind of organizing to be doing right now, a lot of it really is about just saying, we really all care about our kids and how do we make sure they have good schools and we all need some good healthcare, and let's make sure that that's available to everybody. And just as much as possible keeps it within that other realm. And even maybe not even about issues, maybe it's just about having a potluck and enjoying food together.Danielle (14:10):What structures or how do you know then that you're in reality? And do you have an experience of actually being in a mixed group like that with people that think wildly different than you? And how did that experience inform you? And maybe it's recently, maybe it's in the past. Yeah,Sarah (14:32):So in some respects, I feel like I've lived that way all my life,(14:44):Partly because I spent enough time outside the United States that when I came home as a child, our family lived in India for a year. And so when I came home, I just had this sense that my life, my life and my perceptions of the world were really different than almost everybody else around me, but the exception of other people who'd also spent a lot of time outside the us. And somehow we understood each other pretty well. But most of my life, I felt like I was seeing things differently. And I don't feel like I've ever really particularly gained a lot of skill in crossing that I've tended to just for a lot of what I'm thinking about. I just don't really talk about it except with a few people who are really interested. I don't actually know a lot about how to bridge that gap, except again, to tell stories, to use language that is non-academic, to use language that is part of ordinary people's lives.(16:01):So yes, magazine, that was one of the things that I focused a lot on is we might do some pretty deep analysis, and some of it might include really drawing on some of the best academic work that we could find. But when it came to what we were going to actually produce in the magazine, we really focused in on how do we make this language such that anybody who picks this up who at least feels comfortable reading? And that is a barrier for some people, but anybody who feels comfortable reading can say, yeah, this is written with me in mind. This is not for another group of people. This is written for me. And then part of that strategy was to say, okay, if you can feel that way about it, can you also then feel comfortable sharing it with other people where you feel like they're going to feel invited in and they won't feel like, okay, I'm not your audience.(16:57):I'm not somebody you're trying to speak to. So that's pretty much, I mean, just that whole notion of language and telling stories and using the age old communication as human beings, we evolved to learn by stories. And you can tell now just because you try to tell a kid some lesson and their eyes will roll, but if you tell them a story, they will listen. They won't necessarily agree, but they will listen and it will at least be something they'll think about. So stories is just so essential. And I think that authentic storytelling from our own experience that feels like, okay, I'm not just trying to tell you how you should believe, but I'm trying to say something about my own experience and what's happened to me and where my strength comes from and where my weaknesses and my challenges come from as well.Yeah, you mentioned that, and I was thinking about good stories. And so one of the stories I like to tell is that I moved to Suquamish, which is as an Indian reservation, without knowing really anything about the people I was going to be neighbors with. And there's many stories I could tell you about that. But one of them was that I heard that they were working to restore the ability to dig clams and dies inlet, which is right where silver Dial is located. And I remember thinking that place is a mess. You're never going to be able to have clean enough water because clams require really clean water. They're down filtering all the crap that comes into the water, into their bodies. And so you don't want to eat clams unless the water's very clean. But I remember just having this thought from my perspective, which is find a different place to dig clamps because that place is a mess.(19:11):And then years later, I found out it was now clean enough that they were digging clamps. And I realized that for them, spending years and years, getting the water cleaned up was the obvious thing to do because they think in terms of multiple generations, and they don't give up on parts of their water or their land. So it took years to do it, but they stayed with it. And so that was really a lesson for me in that kind of sense of reality, because my sense of reality is, no, you move on. You do what the pioneers did. One place gets the dust bowl and you move to a different place to farm. And learning to see from the perspective of not only other individuals, but other cultures that have that long millennia of experience in place and how that shifts things. It's almost like to me, it's like if you're looking at the world through one cultural lens, it's like being a one eyed person. You certainly see things, but when you open up your other eye and you can start seeing things in three dimensions, it becomes so much more alive and so much more rich with information and with possibilities.Danielle (20:35):Well, when you think about, and there's a lot probably, how do you apply that to today or even our political landscape? We're finding reality today.Sarah (20:48):Well, I think that the MAGA cult is very, very one eyed. And again, because that sense of safety and identity is so tied up in maintaining that they're not necessarily going to voluntarily open a second eye. But if they do, it would probably be because of stories. There's a story, and I think things like the Jimmy Kimmel thing is an example of that.(21:21):There's a story of someone who said what he believed and was almost completely shut down. And the reason that didn't happen is because people rose up and said, no, that's unacceptable. So I think there's a fundamental belief that's widespread enough that we don't shut down people for speech unless it's so violent that it's really dangerous. We don't shut people down for that. So I think when there's that kind of dissonance, I think there's sometimes an opening, and then it's really important to use that opening, not as a time to celebrate that other people were wrong and we were right, but to celebrate these values that free speech is really important and we're going to stand up for it, and that's who we are. So we get back to that identity. You can feel proud that you were part of this movement that helped make sure that free speech is maintained in the United States. Oh, that'sDanielle (22:26):Very powerful. Yeah, because one side of my family is German, and they're the German Mennonites. They settled around the Black Sea region, and then the other side is Mexican. But these settlers were invited by Catherine the Great, and she was like, Hey, come over here. And Mennonites had a history of non-violence pacifist movement. They didn't want to be conscripted into the German army. And so this was also attractive for them because they were skilled farmers and they had a place to go and Russia and farm. And so that's why they left Germany, to go to Russia to want to seek freedom of their religion and use their farming skills till the soil as well as not be conscripted into violent political movements. That's the ancestry of the side of my family that is now far.(23:29):And I find, and of course, they came here and when they were eventually kicked out, and part of that them being kicked out was then them moving to the Dakotas and then kicking out the native tribes men that were there on offer from the US government. So you see the perpetuation of harm, and I guess I just wonder what all of that cost my ancestors, what it cost them to enact harm that they had received themselves. And then there was a shift. Some of them went to World War II as conscientious objectors, a couple went as fighters.(24:18):So then you start seeing that shift. I'm no longer, I'm not like a pacifist. You start seeing the shift and then we're to today, I don't know if those black sea farmers that moved to Russia would be looking down and being good job. Those weren't the values it seems like they were pursuing. So I even, I've been thinking a lot about that and just what does that reality mean here? What separations, what splitting has my family had to do to, they changed from these deeply. To move an entire country means you're very committed to your values, uproot your life, even if you're farming and you're going to be good at it somewhere else, it's a big deal.Sarah (25:10):Oh, yeah. So it also could be based on fear, right? Because I think so many of the people who immigrated here were certainly my Jewish heritage. There is this long history of pilgrims and people would get killed. And so it wasn't necessarily that for a lot of people that they really had an option to live where they were. And of course, today's refugees, a lot of 'em are here for the same reason. But I think one of the things that happened in the United States is the assimilation into whiteness.(25:49):So as white people, it's obviously different for different communities, but if you came in here and you Irish people and Italians and so forth were despised at certain times and Jews and Quakers even. But over time, if you were white, you could and many did assimilate. And what did assimilate into whiteness? First of all, whiteness is not a culture, and it's kind of bereft of real meaning because the real cultures were the original Irish and Italian. But the other thing is that how you make whiteness a community, if you will, is by excluding other people, is by saying, well, we're different than these other folks. So I don't know if this applies to your ancestors or not, but it is possible that part of what their assimilation to the United States was is to say, okay, we are white people and we are entitled to this land in North Dakota because we're not native. And so now our identity is people who are secure on the land, who have title to it and can have a livelihood and can raise our children in security. That is all wrapped up in us not being native and in our government, keeping native people from reclaiming that land.(27:19):So that starts shifting over generations. Certainly, it can certainly shift the politics. And I think that plus obviously the sense of entitlement that so many people felt to and feel to their slave holding ancestors, that was a defensible thing to do. And saying it's not is a real challenge to somebody's identity.(27:51):So in that respect, that whole business that Trump is doing or trying to restore the Confederate statues, those were not from the time of slavery. Those were from after reconstruction. Those were part of the south claiming that it had the moral authority and the moral right to do these centuries long atrocities against enslaved people. And so to me, that's still part of the fundamental identity struggle we're in right now, is people saying, if I identify as white, yes, I get all this safety and all these privileges, but I also have this burden of this history and history that's continuing today, and how do I reconcile those two? And Trump says, you don't have to. You can just be proud of what you have perpetrated or what your ancestors perpetrated on other people.And I think there was some real too. I think there were people who honestly felt that they wanted to reconcile the, and people I think who are more willing to have complex thoughts about this country because there are things to be proud of, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the long history of protecting free speech and journalism and education for everyone and so forth. So there are definitely things to be proud of. And then there are things to recognize. We're incredibly violent and have had multiple generations of trauma resulting from it. And to live in this country in authenticity is to recognize that both are true and we're stuck with the history, but we're not stuck without being able to deal with that. We can do restitution and reparations and we can heal from that.Danielle (30:15):How do you stay connected even just to your own self in that dissonance that you just described?Sarah (30:30):Well, I think part of having compassion is to recognize that we're imperfect beings as individuals, but we're also imperfect as cultures. And so for me, I can live with, I mean, this is something I've lived with ever since I was in India, really. And I looked around and noticed that there were all these kids my own age who were impoverished and I was not. And that I knew I have enough to eat at the end of the day, and I knew that many of them would not have enough to eat. So it's always been a challenge for me. And so my response to that has been when I was a kid was, well, I don't understand how that happened. It's certainly not right. I don't understand how it could be, and I'm going to do my best to understand it, and then I'll do my part to try to change it. And I basically had the same view ever since then, which is there's only so much I can do, but I'll do everything I can, including examining my own complicity and working through issues that I might be carrying as somebody who grew up in a white supremacist culture, working on that internally, and then also working in community and working as an activist in a writer in any way I can think of that I can make a contribution.(31:56):But I really do believe that healing is possible. And so when I think about the people that are causing that I feel like are not dealing with the harm that they're creating, I still feel just somebody who goes to prison for doing a crime that's not the whole of who they are. And so they're going to have to ultimately make the choice about whether they're going to heal and reconcile and repair the damage they will have to make that choice. But for my part, I always want to keep that door open in my relationship with them and in my writing and in any other way, I want to keep the door open.Danielle (32:43):And I hear that, and I'm like, that's noble. And it's so hard to do to keep that door open. So what are some of the tools you use, even just on your own that help you keep that door open to conversation, even to feeling compassion for people maybe you don't agree with? What are some of the things, maybe their internal resources, external resources could be like, I don't know, somebody you read, go back to and read. Yeah. What helps you?Sarah (33:16):Well, the most important thing for me to keep my sanity is a combination of getting exercise and getting outside(33:27):And hanging out with my granddaughter and other people I love outside of political spaces because the political spaces get back into the stress. So yeah, I mean the exercise, I just feel like being grounded in our bodies is so important. And partly that the experience of fear and anxiety show up in our bodies, and we can also process them through being really active. So I'm kind of worried that if I get to the point where I'm too old to be able to really move, whether I'll be able to process as well. So there's that in terms of the natural world, this aliveness that I feel like transcends me and certainly humanity and just an aliveness that I just kind of open my senses to. And then it's sort, they call it forest bathing or don't have to be in a forest to do it, but just sort of allowing that aliveness to wash over me and to sort of celebrate it and to remember that we're all part of that aliveness. And then spending time with a 2-year-old is like, okay, anything that I may be hung up on, it becomes completely irrelevant to her experience.Danielle (35:12):I love that. Sarah, for you, even though I know you heard, you're still asking these questions yourself, what would you tell people to do if they're listening and they're like, and they're like, man, I don't know how to even start a conversation with someone that thinks different than me. I don't know how to even be in the same room them, and I'm not saying that your answers can apply to everybody. Mine certainly don't either, like you and me are just having a conversation. We're just talking it out. But what are some of the things you go to if you know you're going to be with people Yeah. That think differently than you, and how do you think about it?Sarah (35:54):Yeah, I mean, I don't feel particularly proud of this because I don't feel very capable of having a direct conversation with somebody who's, because I don't know how to get to a foundational level that we have in common, except sometimes we do. Sometimes it's like family, and sometimes it's like, what did you do for the weekend? And so it can feel like small talk, but it can also have an element of just recognizing that we're each in a body, in perhaps in a family living our lives struggling with how to live well. And so I usually don't try to get very far beyond that, honestly. And again, I'm not proud of that because I would love to have conversations that are enlightening for me and the other person. And my go-to is really much more basic than that.Maybe it is. And maybe it creates enough sense of safety that someday that other level of conversation can happen, even if it can't happen right away.Danielle (37:14):Well, Sarah, tell me if people are looking for your writing and know you write a blog, tell me a little bit about that and where to find you. Okay.Sarah (37:26):Yeah, my blog is called How We Rise, and it's on Substack. And so I'm writing now and then, and I'm also writing somewhat for Truth Out Truth out.org has adopted the Yes Archive, which I'm very grateful to them for because they're going to keep it available so people can continue to research and find articles there that are still relevant. And they're going to be continuing to do a monthly newsletter where they're going to draw on Yes, archives to tell stories about what's going on now. Yes, archives that are specifically relevant. So I recommend that. And otherwise, I'm just right now working on a draft of an op-ed about Palestine, which I hope I can get published. So I'm sort of doing a little of this and a little of that, but I don't feel like I have a clear focus. The chaos of what's going on nationally is so overwhelming, and I keep wanting to come back to my own and my own focus of writing, but I can't say that I've gotten there yet.Danielle (38:41):I hear you. Well, I hope you'll be back, and hopefully we can have more conversations. And just thanks a lot for being willing to just talk about stuff we don't know everything about.As always, thank you for joining us, and at the end of the podcast are notes and resources, and I encourage you to stay connected to those who are loving in your path and in your community. Stay tuned.Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

In this week's episode, our storytellers face life-or-death moments they'll never forget.Part 1: On a trip to Colombia for a research conference, biologist Stephanie Galla must rely on her fight-or-flight instincts when she is cornered by a mugger with a knife. Part 2: An ordinary day takes a shocking turn when Kim Weaver is struck by lightning. Stephanie Galla is an Assistant Professor in avian biology at Boise State University. She is interested in interdisciplinary conservation efforts for species in decline, and in particular, how genomic technologies can inform management decisions. Using DNA, her research team explores whether birds (including grouse and raptors) have the adaptive capacity to be resilient in a changing world. Outside of her everyday work life, she enjoys bird watching, making art, taking care of her backyard chickens, and watching TV with her husband and cat. Kim Weaver is a long-time storyteller and occasional guest host at Story Night in Bremerton, but she cut her storytelling chops as a high school math and engineering teacher. (No matter how much you heckle, you will not be as brutal as a room full of Algebra I students.) She has also told plenty of ocean tales as a Science Communication Fellow aboard the E/V Nautilus. Kim lives in Poulsbo, Washington where her primary role is meeting the demands of a high-maintenance corgi named Bird, but her actual job is providing STEM and EdTech support to teachers throughout the Kitsap and Olympic peninsulas.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Arise Podcast – Edited TranscriptSpeaker 1 (00:29):Welcome to the Rise Podcast. As part of this process, we're going to talk about what reality is—how to find it, and how to ground yourself in it. I'll have some regular co-hosts with me, as I mentioned earlier, and we'll continue to explore faith, gender, race, sex, the church—all in the context of discovering reality.Today is September 10, 2025. As I pushed to get this episode out, plans shifted and things got canceled. I was busy with the kids, checking the news, scrolling Instagram, running errands, picking up sandwiches—just an ordinary day. Then I saw the headline: Charlie Kirk had been shot.Interestingly, Charlie Kirk and I disagree on almost everything, but I've occasionally listened to his podcast. I also listen to the Midas Touch podcast and others across the spectrum to understand what people are thinking and believing.(01:47)I ask myself: what reality am I living in, and whose voices am I letting in? When I have the capacity, I listen to people like Charlie Kirk, sometimes tune in to Fox News, check X/Twitter, or look at Truth Social—just to gauge different perspectives.I live on Squamish land—land of cedar and clear salt water—here in Poulsbo, Washington. Kitsap County is an interesting rural mix. We're near Seattle, often labeled “ultra-liberal,” but that doesn't exempt us from racism, elitism, or entrenched power structures. And our rural neighbors may identify as fiscally or socially conservative. You might meet someone who voted very differently from you—someone who will happily bring you cookies, or someone who might actually despise you.(02:48)This mix, I think, is closer to reality than living in silos. We may choose echo chambers for news, but we still rub shoulders at coffee shops, restaurants, gyms, and schools with people who think differently.I keep asking: how do we find a shared space to even talk? How do we locate common reality?Back in 2020, when George Floyd was murdered, I saw deep fractures emerge. I was just starting therapy groups on race and whiteness. Our diverse group gathered to talk about racism at a time when the country seemed ready for those conversations.(04:54)But quickly I noticed what I call splitting—fracturing when someone said something others couldn't accept or even register in their bodies. It sometimes caused silence or confusion, and often led to sharp, even violent words meant to wound. And often the person speaking didn't realize the harm.This fascinated me as a therapist. From a psychological perspective, I began to wonder: which part of ourselves shows up in everyday interactions? At a store, maybe just a polite hello. With a friend, maybe a brief check-in that still doesn't touch the day's deeper feelings.(07:07)Sometimes those layers of relationship reveal unspoken emotions—feelings inside that remain hidden. Healthy boundaries are normal, but there's no guarantee that with those we love we suddenly share every vulnerable part of ourselves.Now add politics, faith, love, gender, culture: more layers. Many of these parts trace back to childhood—traumas, arguments, experiences at school or with caregivers.(08:15)So when I see splitting—what some call polarization, black-and-white or binary thinking, or even “boundaries as weapons”—I see people wrestling with what it means to be a neighbor and to engage someone who thinks radically differently.I feel the temptation myself to label everything all good or all bad. Children need that kind of distinction to learn what's safe and unsafe, but adults must grow beyond it. Two things can be true at the same time: you hurt me, and I still love you and will show up. Yet our world increasingly tells us that can't be true.(11:05)This pressure to split is intense—internally, from media, from social circles, from family. Sometimes I want to run away into the woods, start a farm, keep my kids home, just stay safe. Today, after news of a school shooting and Charlie Kirk's murder, that desire feels even stronger.There are days I simply cannot engage with people who think differently. Other days, I have more capacity.So where is reality? For me, it's grounding in faith—literally planting my feet on the earth, hugging a tree, touching grass.(13:30)I ask: who is God? Who is Jesus? And who have I been told God and Jesus are? I grew up in a rigid evangelical structure—shaped by purity culture and fear of punishment. I remember hearing, “If God calls you and you don't act, He'll move on and you'll be left behind.” Even now, at 47, that idea haunts me.When I meet people from that tradition, I feel the urge to split—making my perspective all right and theirs all wrong. I have to remind myself of their humanity and of God's love for them.Earlier this year, I chose to resist those splits. I called people where relationships felt scratchy or unresolved, inviting conversation. Not everyone responded, but the practice helped loosen old binds.(16:55)I also keep listening to multiple viewpoints. I never “followed” Charlie Kirk, but I'd check his posts and sometimes feel genuine tenderness when he shared about his family. That's part of loving your enemies—remembering their humanity, even when you feel anger or rage.I grew up surrounded by conservative media. I even remember the early days of Fox News. As a teen reading Time magazine, I once told my parents that Michael Dukakis's policies aligned more with my faith than his opponent's. Over time I drifted toward trickle-down economics, but that early instinct still stands out.(21:22)All of us are socialized into certain beliefs. I went from conservative evangelical spaces to a conservative liberal-arts college. People warned I might “lose my faith,” yet those history classes deepened it. Today many claim that consuming certain media will “distort your reality.” Political violence is rising. I listen to both progressive and conservative podcasts to understand different lives. Yet when I cite something I've heard, I'm often told it's “AI-generated” or “fake,” even when it's a direct quote. Liberals do this too, around issues like Palestine, policing, or healthcare.(24:47)It's painful to be around people who think differently. The question is: how do we converse without devolving into hate or shouting?Today is September 11. Between Charlie Kirk's assassination, yesterday's school shooting, and attempted political killings, it's clear our nation is split into competing realities that shape everything—from how we see safety to how we practice faith and empathy.This podcast is about examining those realities and how we process them.(26:44)Sometimes we retreat inward to cope with trauma—what psychology might call dissociation or a psychic retreat. I understand the instinct to step back for safety.Maybe these divisions always existed, and I just see them more clearly now while raising my children. That responsibility feels heavy.(29:12)I often turn to elders and their words—Cesar Chavez, Dolores Huerta, Martin Luther King Jr.'s “Letter from Birmingham Jail.” They remind me others have endured violence and hatred and still held onto hope and faith.I fight for that same hope now.(30:04)To ground ourselves we can:- Connect with the earth: literally touch the ground, trees, water.- Stay in community: share meals, exchange help, build fences together.- Nourish faith: draw on spiritual wisdom.- Cherish family: use loved ones as emotional barometers.- Engage work and service: notice how they shape and sustain us.- Face issues of race and justice: ask if we contribute to harm or to healing.Your grounding pillars may differ, but these guide me.(32:40)I invite you to this journey. You may agree or disagree—that's okay. We need space to coexist when it feels like only one side can survive.Violence won't change hearts. Bullets cannot replace ballots. Money cannot buy joy or transformation. Only sustained dialogue and care can.(34:05)I'll share some quotes from Dolores Huerta and Cesar Chavez in the show notes. Please stay curious and seek the mental-health support you need. Don't be alone in your grief or fear. If you feel triggered or overwhelmed, reach out—to a therapist, pastor, trusted friend, or crisis helpline.A special guest and new co-host will join me next week. I look forward to continuing the conversation.   Crisis Resources:Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResource Contact Info What They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call Line Phone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/ 24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach Team Emergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/ Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS) Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/ Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now” Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx 24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the Peninsulas Phone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-Resources Local crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap County Website: https://namikitsap.org/ Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResource Contact Info What They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988) Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/ Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line 1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resources Help for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line 877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/ Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis Lifeline Dial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resources Culturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately.  Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

Alicia Houston is the founder of Healer's Harvest, based in Poulsbo, Washington. After moving to the Pacific Northwest from San Diego to care for her grandfather, a long-time veggie grower and farmers' market seller, Alicia found her own passion for flower farming. Her lifelong interest in medicinal plants led her to take courses, attend workshops, […] The post Episode 733: Field tour and design demonstration with Alicia Houston of Healer's Harvest appeared first on Slow Flowers Podcast with Debra Prinzing.

Imagine going bankrupt at 21 with over a quarter-million dollars in debt—only to rebuild and create brands that now reach millions worldwide. That's exactly what today's guest, Nick Edmundson, did. Nick is the Founder & CEO of Wandering Weddings, the global hub for adventurous couples who want rule-free, epic celebrations. From washing cars for $6.50 an hour to running multiple successful brands—including a die-cast racing venture called Tiny Track Cars—Nick's story is one of persistence, creativity, and never letting other people's limits define his own. In this episode, we dive into: The $250,000 car business disaster that forced him into bankruptcy at 21 How he turned photography into a thriving business and simplified success with his wife Building Wandering Weddings into a worldwide platform Balancing business with family life while protecting his time Why persistence—not intelligence—is the ultimate success key Nick also shares how joining the Exiter Club mastermind shifted his mindset, taught him the power of delegation, and helped him move from being the brand to running the brand.

Your host AHyp (A-Hip) is back with another episode of LIKEITORNOT, this time a solo show that highlights many things, including the burger joints we visited on National Burger Day, some local food spots I hope to check out soon, plus a recap of my time spent on the Olympic Peninsula, basically an unofficial food tour of Silverdale, Poulsbo, Chimacum, Port Townsend & Port Ludlow. More episodes like this coming. I also talked about Radnor's 1 year anniversary as well as SIG Brewing's 5 year anniversary, which is coming up. I played Truss One instrumental's the entire time until the end when I played various local artists you've grown to love,  an episode you don't wanna miss, trust me! Huge shoutout to everyone out there supporting, means the world to me- I love y'all, LIKEITORNOT

This is part two of my Q&A with Father John Strickland. We talk about the Protestant reformation, Autocephalous churches and connections to Byzantium amongst other topics.John is the pastor of an Orthodox Church in Poulsbo in Washington State. He wrote a four-volume series about the history of Christian civilization called Paradise and Utopia. He's also recorded a podcast of the same name as an accompaniment to the books which you can find wherever you get your podcasts or at www.ancientfaith.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode is brought to you by Telepaideia, a collection of live online courses in Latin, Ancient Greek, and the classical humanities offered by The Paideia Institute. Visit www.paideiainstitute.org/telepaideia to browse the course catalogue and register! It's my pleasure today to welcome back Father John Strickland to the podcast. Four episodes ago we talked in detail about the Divine Liturgy and its place at the heart of Byzantine life. I put out the call for listeners to ask questions. Particularly those of us not familiar with Orthodoxy or ecclesiastical issues in general. And Father Strickland has kindly returned to answer them. The questions are wide ranging and so demand thorough answers which Father John provides. So we decided to split them over two episodes. Today we tackle the Orthodox view on salvation and purgatory. As well as the role of the Ecumenical Patriarch and thoughts on the Byzantine understanding of how the divine played a role in daily life. Then we finish with the Orthodox view of Catholicism, Church Union and evangelisation. John is the pastor of an Orthodox Church in Poulsbo in Washington State. He wrote a four-volume series about the history of Christian civilization called Paradise and Utopia. He's also recorded a podcast of the same name as an accompaniment to the books which you can find wherever you get your podcasts or at www.ancientfaith.com. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

 Spiritual Abuse, Christianity and the Election with Guest HostChristian Nationalism and Spiritual Abuse: A 90 minute workshop with Jenny McGrath (click here to register)w/Danielle S. Castillejo and Jenny McGrathAre you confused about what is going on in the US? Do you feel triggered about past spiritual abuse when you see certain elected officials and faith leaders using harmful rhetoric? Are you wanting understanding and tools to navigate this present moment? You are not alone!  Danielle Castillejo and I have been researching the various tributaries of white supremacy via Christian nationalism and spiritual abuse for years now. We are devastated to see what is playing out post Trump's election, but we are not surprised.In early 2025 Danielle and I will be beginning groups for individuals who are wanting to process, grieve, and learn more about spiritual abuse and it's various intersections with race. For now we are offering an introductory workshop to help individuals feel empowered to know what is going on. This workshop is hybrid- you can join online or in person in Poulsbo, Washington.We will not be giving all of the answers, but we will be giving a framework of “purity culture” and how that has fostered violence based on race, gender, ethnicity, and sexuality since the inception of the US. What is going on right now is not new, but many people are awakening to it for the first time.Stay awake. Come learn with us how we can resist, together. Note: This workshop will be recorded and made available for future purchase. Speaker 1 (00:13):Welcome to the ARise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and the church. And tune in and listen to this conversation today. Hey, thanks for joining me today. We've been talking about getting together, I think, in this format on a podcast since before the election, but obviously the election happened. It was a hectic season. I know for me, and I know for you, I want to hear about how that has been as well. But even just as we were kind of saying hello, we're leading in, I could tell like, oh man, shit, there's so many emotions that possibly come up. So we talked about talking about spiritual abuse, the election, and the role of Christianity in that. And for me, it's been so confusing. I grew up a really strict evangelical church. When Fox News appeared on the scene, my dad was watching Fox News and I was watching Fox News, and I've been trying to trace back, did I ever have any dissonance with this?(01:22):And I remember some of the first things when I was a kid, like reading a Time magazine about the election and wondering to myself, why do Christians, the Christians I was with, why do they support Republicans? Why are they against social programs? And then when the Iraq war was going on, it felt very clear to me that SDA Hus saying that they were lying about what was happening in the Middle East. But I didn't understand how all of the Republicans that were kind of pushing this narrative about Iraq, why didn't anybody even ask just simple history majors becauseSpeaker 2 (02:02):It'sSpeaker 1 (02:02):Obvious. So those are kind of some of the origins. I remember kind of questioning my roots and questioning the narrative of say, Fox News. And now I know there's, there's Charlie Kirk, there's all these other podcast out there kind of rebranding Fox News talking points. But I mean, where that intersected with faith for me is just like, well, how do I even talk about a character like Jesus with someone from that old place when I don't really know if we're talking about the same person anymore? In fact, it's fairly clear to me that it's not the same guy. And who's that guy in the Bible? It's been very confusing for me, but I'm just curious, how do you even open up to think about those questions and kind of the topics?Speaker 2 (02:51):Yeah, I mean, I resonate with the confusion and definitely feel that too. And I think it's one of those things where when I try to pull it apart and get some footing on where I'm at and what I think about it, it is hard to know where to start. Even your words about, okay, Fox News came out, my dad's watching this. I'm watching this. I'm a little confused, but also not quite sure what to make of it or how to even approach the dissonance that I'm experiencing. It goes back so far and so in the air water that it feels hard to disentangle. But I mean, I'm with you and feel so much of that same confusion. And I think even being in a red state, very red state, very conservative, very evangelical area, it's almost as if the Jesus and the political views are not for many.(04:09):And I am sure this is not limited to this area, but one of the things I experienced is it's not even, you can't even question, you can't even ask the question, the question of, wait, what's actually happening here? What is someone who actually has a degree in history in Middle Eastern politics? You can't even ask those questions because those questions are a sign that you're doubting or that you've moved to the other side. And so there's such a blindness, and if you go away from us, you're wrong. So much fear. And to pull Jesus apart from that, it very much does feel like a different, we're talking about a different Jesus, which is super disorienting, right? Because we might use the same verses or verses from the same Bible or we celebrate the same holidays, or it feels very disorienting and very confusing.Speaker 1 (05:21):Yeah. I think this idea that Jesus was about love or is something of love, that he was defiant towards religious Pharisees and the people that were persecuting others in the name of religion, it's very interesting then to see one part of my family feel like they're being persecuted and in response to that persecution, they're asking for a king. Or maybe the thing that came to me was the crowd chanting when Jesus was getting ready to be crucified. And the crowd, they're like, the Romans are like, well, who do you want? And they're like, of course we want Barbi. We want the insurrectionist. We want the murderer, the cheater. That's the person we want. Let's kill Jesus. I'm not equating our political figures to Jesus and Barbi, but the idea that we will take even hearkening back to the Old Testament times that we'll take, we need a king, give us a king that somehow the politics, we need politics to save us that Jesus isn't enough anymore. And I don't know when that kind of gets mixed together, the power almost becomes unbearable to fight against, especially if you're on your own.Speaker 2 (06:40):Yeah. Yes. I was actually thinking about this morning how much I think, and I don't know enough about international politics to speak to anything outside of the us, but it feels like our spirituality, especially within the evangelical church in the US, has gotten. So I, I don't know that I would necessarily call myself an evangelical anymore, but that body, which carries a lot of weight, a lot of numbers, a lot of passion in our country, the spirituality has been so fused with politics that it does feel like we need a certain political movement to save us. And I think that could be said on the other side too, in some ways, and I guess in my own, as I've tried to parse out where am I at, where is my spirituality, politics are important, and I feel that we need to vote in line with how we feel, where we find ourselves in terms of our spirituality. And yet Jesus is the rescuer, not a certain political party. And what does that mean? I don't even know how to exist in the midst of where we're at today with that being true, and then it feels so hard to pull apart.Speaker 1 (08:23):Yeah, I mean, for me, I know it hearkens back to so many other places in my life, I've felt powerless against a huge system, or I think specifically in churches where the goal is to has often, well, my experience or the churches that I've been in, the goal has been to preserve the power of a particular pastor or a particular set of pastors and to shield them from any consequences of any ways they might act in the community or individually one-on-one for instance with women. And then I've had the feeling in these circumstances where I just have to take it. I have to take it. I have to move on. I have to accept that God works in this way, that all things work together for good. And that's the same feeling I have right now post-election, that feeling like, okay, this is what's meant to be. This is what God has ordained. You should just take it. And I'm having that similar feeling,Speaker 2 (09:32):Which is not right. That's not, of course, I mean, I'm resonating with what you're saying and feel that deeply, and that is a deep part of my story as well. And of course our bodies go to that. Our bodies are going to go to that story of, okay, this is how we function in the midst of this powerlessness of being within this system or up against this thing that we don't have any, what's a response to it? It feels insurmountable. So yeah, there's so much in me that's like, okay, God's still in control, but even though that feels very familiar in my body, I think as I've done work, and it also doesn't like no, no, something in me is saying, no, no, no, that's not, can't just kind of in a Christian coded scripture, coded way, settle and be okay with what is happening, even though I don't know what to do in a lot of ways, in the midst of that tension, I'm not settled, and I'm not that old pad answer, padded answer of, yeah, God's in control. Everything is going to be okay. Everything works for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose.(11:13):It's not settling me,Speaker 1 (11:16):Right? Because it's not the same scripture if you're white as if you're black or brown or that's true, that scripture means very different things. If you're from white majority power and you say that scripture, you might have the finances and whatnot to deal with coming or the access to education, for instance. But if you're brown, you actually have to give up access to resources that can help your family, like literal, physical, pragmatic resources and be asked to be okay with that for that verse. That's a very different theology than for two sets of people.Speaker 2 (11:53):And it's why as I'm sitting with my clients and the work I do as a therapist, often it is the black and brown clients who are not, they haven't been able to digest this and just move on. It still, it's right here. This is the reality that we're in the middle of, and that is coming, and it is so much easier as a white person to just call on that verse, call on that scriptural ideal because we're not being cost things that those with less privilege are. AndSpeaker 1 (12:44):At the same time, what does it ask you? I can think of some examples for me, but for you in your location, what does this movement ask you to normalize or to make? Okay. Can you name specific things or general things that you can thinkSpeaker 2 (13:03):The movement of the election outcome and what's coming? What's happening?Speaker 3 (13:08):Yeah,Speaker 2 (13:15):That's a great question. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is just kind of going back to this concept that it's really hard to put words to, let me think for a second. So I think going back to answer this is exposing, right? Because it forces me to go back to the comfortable way that I used to view the world. I do think that that is having grown up in a hyper conservative evangelical world that's very red. There were certain ways that I had to tamp down any dissonance that I felt and being super faith oriented that often included a faith perspective. And so, yeah, I think some of the concepts or the ideas that I don't adhere to anymore, and that I was, Danielle, this is so hard to put words to this idea that there's I privilege and suffering. That sounds so gross, but I think there's so many mental gymnastics, even if I'm trying to articulate it, it's really hard because I might look at somebody less privileged than me in those days and think, well, they've got to work harder, but that's part of what they're being gifted. But at the same time, I would say that and hold that while being, not viewing myself that same way because I didn't, wasn't experiencing that lack of privilege that would've required me to work harder, to move forward, to be empowered, to change my outcome. So I don't know that I'm putting good words to what I'm feeling and thinking, butSpeaker 1 (16:14):I think I'm even thinking of, of how it's asked me to normalize that women don't need consent even for sex. It's not only that this was normalized through the president, but it was normalized through, it's been further reinforced through his cabinet picks. And this idea that it almost feels like to me, and I don't know if this is what it's intended to do, but the impact it's having on me is like, look at all the perpetrators I can nominate. And there's no consequence for that. This is okay, people are still shouting, this is God's will. This is God's will.Speaker 3 (17:07):Yeah.Speaker 2 (17:13):Yeah. I mean, as you're naming that, I can see your activation and I feel it too, right? It's going back to that and incredible powerlessness.Speaker 1 (17:39):And then the idea that somehow believing in Jesus is you can believe in Jesus and someone who commits rape or I sexual assault or abuse or human trafficking, that is a get out of jail free card. They can still be the leader. They can still be in charge, which from my experience is the truth in churches.Speaker 2 (18:12):It brings up the question in me, what are we doing? What is happening internally for us to make those jumps? And when I say us, I mean the people that would, and I years ago would've found myself in that camp, what was happening internally that could be so blatantly shown, and yet I'm going to put all my eggs in that basket regardless, because somehow that still can align with a mission of love and care and welcome and hope. I find the psychological mechanism there, which is rooted in a lot of what we know, white supremacy, patriarch, we know some of that, but just that the dissonance that has to be either just cut off from consciousness or somehow jumped over it is really interesting to me.Speaker 1 (19:26):Can you speak to that from a psychological standpoint, maybe in general terms, when you're in an abusive situation, what is that process like? Because what we're kind of describing, right?Speaker 2 (19:37):Yeah. It's so true. Yeah. Well, I mean, if in a harmful relationship and I'm under threat, and that threat can look a lot of different ways. It could be a sense of physical harm, emotional harm, sexual harm, spiritual harm, whatever that threat level is, it's going to activate nervous system responses in me that are good and are there to try to keep me safe. But that might include the typical fight flight, or it could include freeze or fawn, which all again, are good responses that our brain goes to try to keep us safe, but it requires certain parts of our brain to activate and other parts of our brain to not have quite so much energy put toward them. So my ability to think clearly and logically about what's happening is going to be much lower if I'm in a harmful situation, especially if this is repeated and we're talking about a relationship, this relationship not only includes harm, but also includes something good, which most harmful abusive relationships do. So yeah, psychologically, we're just not functioning on all levels if there's a threat of harm.(21:12):So I guess to your point, some of, and maybe not much of what is happening and people who I think truly, I don't know, I want to say that there are people who truly value the teachings of Jesus and want their life to be about him, and yet our things aren't functioning the way they should, not thinking clearly about what's happening. And they're such a dissociated kind of numbness too, which I think is a response that comes when we're being threatened. But I also think that then there is a commitment to it, a commitment to look away, a commitment to, in our privilege, just turn away from what we might in moments of safety, have questions about or see issues with. We can just, oh, I'll just look the other way. So I don't know if that gets at what you were asking, but feels multifaceted. It feels like there's kind of the response part, but then there's also a decision made.Speaker 1 (22:43):I think about that when we're in a position where we don't have power to make the choice we need to get out of it. Say we're a child and we're with an adult or in a job and maybe we need the job for money and we have an abusive employer, or maybe we're in a church system and we are under a threat of losing community or maybe access to work or resources. That pattern, I think of where you have to attach, maintain contact with the person that can hurt you to access some of those good things we're talking about. And at the same time, you have to detach in one of the ways you're talking about. You go into that learned trauma response from the harm that's also coming at you. So you almost have to split that off from the good things like the good and the bad things get split. If that happens over a long period of time, you become accustomed to doing that with maybe certain types of harm, for instance. And so I think about it, even in our bodies, some people drink scalding hot water or scalding hot cotton. Not saying it's wrong, but over time, your taste buds get numbed to that. You can numb out those initial burn sensations.(24:01):And so I think of that when I think of spiritual abuse or when our politics gets mixed up with normalizing, misogynistic and sexually abusive behaviors when we're elevating people that engage in these kinds of harms and saying, well, that's going to be okay for them, actually, let's give them more power. That's way if those are systems you're coming out of where abuse has been normalized or you've been told like, Hey, just follow, don't pay attention to your senses or your gut or your body, then by the time it gets here, you're going to be asking a lot less questions. You're not going to have the warning signals maybe going off. Yeah,Speaker 2 (24:45):Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. And even going back to when you were naming what's Asked, what you're being asked to normalize that women don't get to have consent for sex or they can be mistreated and sexually harmed, and it doesn't really matter, even as you were naming that, I could feel in me that learned trauma response is still there in some ways of when I see these reports of cabinet members and all the stuff that's coming out that people are saying, there's still something in me that's just like, oh, yeah, of course. No big deal. That doesn't stick. And that is not where I end, but there is an initial response in me that is not surprised, that even thinks Well, of course. And it's not a position of That's okay. Yeah, it's really interesting. It's hard to put words to, but it is not as alarming as it should be at times.Speaker 1 (26:03):I think it's good to talk it out, even though it finds both of us without words, because how often are we able to have a conversation like this where we actually be wordless and someone can just talk with us?Speaker 3 (26:16):That's true.Speaker 1 (26:17):Majority of our lives, we have to spend working or taking care of others or surviving making food. I think that's probably why I wanted to just have a conversation like this, because it's not like it's just going to free flow. We're talking about statistics in a sport. It's not the same thing.Speaker 2 (26:35):Yeah, it's very true. And every piece is so interwoven, I think, for me, with my own story and things on a personal level, and then moving out the systemic levels of family and church and then bigger systems. So it does feel hard to put words to, but it is really, I think it is very worthwhile to stumble around and try to find words.Speaker 1 (27:14):Yeah, I mean, you and me we're not experts.Speaker 2 (27:17):No, nope.Speaker 1 (27:22):I was so glad you said personal story because there were things I thought like, oh, this is resolved. I am cool with this. And then it was the day after the election, and I found myself sitting in silence for just a long periods of time about anything to say. I didn't really have a clear thought, likeSpeaker 2 (27:41):A hundred percent. I mean, I think even, I haven't had a ton of conversations about it, honestly. I've kind of sat with folks as they've processed, but I have not taken a lot of space to process. And I think for at least a good week, I didn't have, there was really no way to put words to what my inner experience was. There was a lot of tears and a lot of silence and a lot of dread. But just this feeling of, if I even try to put words, I don't have words for this right now. And yeah,Speaker 1 (28:29):I think that's So partly is the, so insidiousness of spirituality that relies on power to be enforced is that it can tap into all those other tender places in us.Speaker 2 (28:55):Yeah. I mean, yes, it just feels like such a bind and so hard to locate. I think for me, I've got my own spiritual stuff like shifting and have been processing stories of spiritual harm, and I'm still in the midst of that. So that was already there, and then you add this layer on top of that, and it just feels really hard to even have the comforting personal spirituality to anchor to in the midst of all this powerlessness and not comforting in a numbed out split off way of everything's going to be fine, but I can anchor to a creator. I can anchor to a savior. I can anchor to something bigger than me that feels even hard to access.Speaker 1 (30:06):I was thinking about that. I was on Instagram and my family follows some hyper conservative podcasters. So I was watching, I look at that just to get an idea, what are other people thinking? And they were glory to God and Jesus answer by prayer. And I was wondering back in Nazi Germany who voted for Hitler and who had those same prayers and who had those same answers or colonists that came to the United States and raped and murdered and pillaged, and they felt like, oh, wow. God did this for me. I just felt like, wow. We literally think nothing alike. Yeah,Speaker 2 (30:55):And it's hard when you've got folks like that in your family. What commonality are we even standing on anymore? And maybe there's not any,Speaker 1 (31:12):I like to think that the commonality, I tell myself the commonality is that we both believe we're human and the humanity is shared between us, but I'm always not so sure about that if I believe we're both human. Do you actually believe that? I'm unsure,Speaker 2 (31:30):Right? Well, yeah, because I think that belief in our humanity has to require that, that we believe in another's humanity, right? That the dignity of another, and that feels far away. I am not sure how much access people, yeah, it's hard. I don't know the right words to use there, but I don't know how common that is right now.Speaker 1 (32:12):What do you do to find grounding for yourself or to comfort maybe in general or if you have any specifics?Speaker 2 (32:22):That's a good question. I think it's hard right now. I think I'm noticing how I am noticing the lack of grounding. I'm noticing how hard it is to be still, how hard it is to just relax, how hard it is to sit in silence, how hard it is not to grab my phone or eat or those are the things right now, that quick comfort, dopamine boost that I'm turning to. I think it is really, I don't think right now I've figured it out. I mean, I try to move my body every day. I think that is not stillness, but that is a grounded moment for me. And I think when I noticed, honestly in these days, for me, when the emotion has space to come up, letting it come up and not having all the words for it, but being in touch with my tears and in touch with the feeling of powerlessness feels grounded.Speaker 1 (33:44):So the feeling of powerlessness, being in touch with that feels grounding to you?Speaker 2 (33:49):Yeah.Speaker 1 (33:50):Can you say any more about that?Speaker 2 (33:53):Well, it feels real, right? It feels real. It feels real. It feels like in that moment, I'm not trying to numb it. I'm not trying to escape it. I'm not trying. I'm in a complex of like, oh, I can fix this somehow. And I think knowing that, even in those moments, I mean, those are very solitary moments for me. There's not a communal, that's not communal experience for me. But I think in those moments, there is something in me that knows I'm not the only one that's feeling that, and that feels grounding. I think what I've encouraged my clients to do who are reckoning with the fear terror, really disappointed feelings, all that they're coming out of the election with, I've encouraged them. Do you have folks who feel the same that you can just be with in this moment? Can we have community in the powerlessness? Not to stay there, but I do think our humanity has, for those of us who believe in the dignity, us and others around us as humans, we've taken a toll. Our bodies have taken a toll through this, and we need to know that in the midst of this powerlessness, we're not the only ones feeling it, that it feels like a moment of we've got to have other people around us to keep moving and respond, however that looks.(35:41):How about you?Speaker 1 (35:46):I think for me, every morning, just very, it might seem little, but every morning I've been going to the waterfront out here and taking pictures of the same scene, just, I can't even call it a sunrise because pre 7:00 AM it's like dark, dark, dark here in the winter, like dark, dark, dark at 4:00 PM I know it sounds silly, but I've been doing it. It just feels good. Just like, what does that look like? What does it like for me? What do I notice? It always seems to shift a tiny bit, and I like that. Otherwise, I'll text a friend or say, my day is shit, or This really good thing happened. I don't need anybody to make anything better for me because they really can't. But I just want someone to know so I'm not alone.Speaker 3 (36:32):Yeah.Speaker 2 (36:35):Yeah. Good. I like the thought of anchoring to nature, and there's something, I think for me, in the tender places of my own spirituality, being in nature, I can feel the closest to that, the closest to God, the closest to something of hope, something of, and I hope that's real, or at least I hope that it's real. I hope that it's real. You know what I mean? I hope that's not cheap. I like that.Speaker 1 (37:24):I like how you don't have to prove it, man. I hope that's it.Speaker 3 (37:29):Yeah.Speaker 1 (37:32):It feels like the opposite of that's been what's happening to us. Someone's trying to prove it to us.Speaker 2 (37:42):Yeah. How have you handled for you, what have you noticed in terms of taking in news updates? Do you keep yourself pretty open and pretty constantly accessing those things, or have you noticed the need to pause? How's that played out for you?Speaker 1 (38:03):Yeah. Over the weekend, I took a break. It just kind of thought about fun and good things, and I saw a lot of news stories flash across that I was interested in, but I was like, man, I'm not going to read that. That's not going to feel good. But prior to the election, I felt like I remember having this feeling in the last presidency of Trump that every day something bad happened or that every day something happened that I didn't know what to expect. And I think once he's in office, just let the bad things happen so I can know what it is. But right now, I don't know. And there's a lot of talking, but we don't know what's going to happen. So I'm trying to stay a little bit less engaged now because I am trying to stay informed on the things I need to stay informed on, but less engaged in that way. What about you?Speaker 2 (39:01):Yeah. It is funny, as you mentioned that his last presidency, what you felt, I remember feeling a palpable sense of relief when Biden came into office because it was like, I think I felt the same thing you felt without putting those words around it. It was just this constant, every day there was something else. Every day there was some shock or ugh. So whether that was realistic or not, I felt relief when he wasn't in office anymore, which took some time. But yeah, I feel that tension too of, well, I want to be informed, but also there is a lot of unknown. There is a lot of kind of talk that's not able to come into fruition yet, and it feels like, for me, it drives my anxiety, it drives my dread. So holding that tension of being informed, but not staying so connected to all the possibilities that I'm unwell and not able to do my job or love my kids or those things. Yeah.Speaker 1 (40:17):Yeah. Right.Speaker 2 (40:20):Yeah. I mean, there's so much weight. I think as we're just in our conversation, there's so much weight in my body, so much weight in my stomach, so much tightness in my throat. It's such a, there's so much dread,Speaker 3 (40:40):Right?Speaker 1 (40:42):Yeah. And I think that's, that's the thing that's different that I think it's good for us to keep naming. This isn't like PTSD where the trauma happened and it's in the past. This is an ongoing thing that hasn't stopped yet. So I think at the same time, it's ongoing. We'll often have these traumatic symptoms that we might call PTSD, but for us to expect ourselves or you or I expect someone else to just be over it, I don't think that's necessarily fair.Speaker 2 (41:22):Yeah. And I think in the midst of that, trying to be kind with ourselves and gentle, acknowledging what we are in the midst of and tending to our bodies and giving ourselves a pass and moments when we need to eat a good meal and just talk about whatever it is with a friend or with our families holding onto our humanity and our dignity in that way too. Those really important.Speaker 1 (42:07):Well, are there any final thoughts you want to leave folks with? I mean, I know we can't wrap this up. I know we'll likely have more conversations, but this is kind of our opening. Any final thoughts?Speaker 2 (42:23):I mean, I think just that encouragement, speaking to myself too, of being kind, being kind to ourselves, but also to other people. Not being okay with injustice, but remembering the humanity and even, I don't know, it feels hard to do, but remembering somebody's humanity, even if they're not honoring mine, the kind of person I want to be. That's hard. But I do think that that feels really important.Speaker 1 (43:09):That feels good. I think for me, I try to, like I said, find some grounding in myself and then find some folks that I can just be myself with, even just one person for the day that I can express one real emotion with one real thought, even if it's joy or happiness, but someone I know that will celebrate that with me. Or if I'm sad, someone I know I can actually cry with or just tell it, like say I'm sad today. Yeah.Speaker 3 (43:44):Yeah.Speaker 1 (43:46):Well, thank you for joining me. So good to be here on Monday, December 9th, just a week from now, Jenny McGrath of Indwell Counseling, and I link is in the notes, are going to be doing a little workshop, like one-off thing on Christian nationalism and spiritual abuse. If you're confused about what's going on in the us you feel triggered about past spiritual abuse, when you see certain elected officials and faith officials using harmful rhetoric, or are you wanting to understanding and tools to navigate this present moment, you're not alone. As you heard in our conversation. It can be very difficult. And so we just decided, hey, we'd offer this little workshop, talk a little bit about it. And then in early 2025, Jenny and I are going to be getting some groups for individuals who want to process and grieve and learn more about spiritual abuse and its various intersections with race. This is not new work for Jenny and I. We've been having this conversation for many years now, and we're also not experts. We're not here to solve all the problems or be the only resource for you, but you're invited to join. If cost is a problem, please reach out. We'll see what we can do.    Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

https://www.philallenjr.comPhil is a man driven by vision, compelled to fulfill God's calling on his life. His passion is not only to see individuals come to know and grow in a relationship with Jesus, but to see social transformation that includes addressing systems and structures that affect the everyday lives of people, especially those typically pushed to the margins because of oppression, injustices, and inequities grounded in race, gender, sexuality, ability, age, and any part of their being that does not fit the dominant group membership.As an All-American high school basketball player, Phil attended North Carolina A&T University to play basketball and study architectural engineering. Upon his call to ministry years later, he went on to receive his Bachelors in Theological Studies, with an emphasis in Christian Ministries from The King's University. While working as a full-time lead pastor of Own Your Faith Ministries (Santa Clarita, CA), Phil completed a Master of Arts in Theology degree from Fuller Theological Seminary, studying Christian Ethics. As a current PhD candidate in Christian Ethics, with a minor in Theology and Culture, his research involves race theory, theology, ethics, culture, and the theology and ethics of Martin Luther King, Jr.He is founder of the non-profit organization Racial Solidarity Project based in Los Angeles, CA. His passion for dialogue, resistance, and solutions to the problem of systemic racism was fostered by his family and personal life experiences as well as his educational journey. Phil was recently named a Pannell Center for Black Church Studies Fellow at Fuller Theological Seminary. As a fellow his research on Black Church theology, liturgy, and ethics further undergirds his own ethics of justice, healing racial trauma, and racial solidarity. He has taught undergraduate classes on biblical ethics toward racial solidarity. His fields of interest include Christian ethics, Black Church studies, race theory, pneumatology, theology of justice and theology of play and sport.When he isn't pastoring, studying, or writing, Phil enjoys running, bowling, basketball, and just watching his favorite television shows. As an all-around creative, he is an author, a teacher, pastor, filmmaker (see his documentary Open Wounds), but first a poet. His diverse experiences and interests have gifted him with the ability to relate to and inspire just about anyone he meets.He is the author of two books, Open Wounds: A Story of Racial Tragedy, Trauma, and Redemption (Fortress Press, 2021) and The Prophetic Lens: The Camera and Black Moral Agency From MLK to Darnella Frazier (Fortress Press, 2022).Speaker 1 (00:13):Welcome to the Arise podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and the church. And tune in and listen to this conversation today. Dr. Phil Allen, Jr and myself are going to have a conversation today. And if you go to his website, phil allen jr.com, you can see that his quote is Justice Matters, my neighbors Matter, creation matters, faith Matters. And really in this conversation, I want you to pay attention to those points that he makes in this quote from his website and how that filters through in the research he does in the point of view he's bringing to the table for this conversation on what are we doing? And I think a lot of people are like, are we still talking about the Yes, we're still talking about it. Yes. It's still relevant and we're talking about it because from understanding creates pathways towards action, towards organizing, towards being together with one another in community so that we can support justice, so that we can support our neighbors so that we have faith in creator. And so I want to encourage you to listen through that lens. Go find his website, phil allen jr.com. Look up this amazing man, this professor, he's got a podcast, he's got books, poetry speaking, a documentary. Don't hesitate to reach out, but as you listen, focusing on justice Neighbor and creation and Faith.(01:48):Yeah. What has it been like for you since the election? Or what's that been likeSpeaker 2 (01:57):Since the election? The first couple of days were, I was a bit numb. I was very disappointed in 2016. I wasn't surprised. I had this feeling that he was going to win, even though people thought Hillary would win. I just didn't have the confidence in those battleground swing state. I thought he represented something that a lot of people in this country are drawn to. And this year I really felt like she was going to win. Vice President Harris was going to win because of the coalition, because of the momentum. People can critique and criticize her campaign, but there's nothing orthodox about starting a hundred days before. And I think what they did was calculated. I won't say perfect, but it was good. It was a solid campaign given what she had to work with. And I really thought she would win. And I was just extremely disappointed. It was like this heaviness over me, but then after day two, things started to feel a little bit lighter. I just put things in perspective. I wasn't going to sulk and sit in some sadness because this man won. I think I was more disappointed in the people like what is our standard, particularly Christians, conservative Christians, what is the standard now? How low is the bar?(04:04):And honestly, I don't know if there's anyone else on the planet, any other demographic that could have done that with 34 felonies saying the things that he says about people of color, about women, about veterans. I mean, he just literally does not care. There's no man or woman of color. There's no woman, there's no one else that could do that. And people would ignore everything, do theological gymnastics and to justify everything and still vote for 'em. No one else could pull it off. And I think for me, it just solidified the type of country we live in. So I'm good now, as good as I can be. I can't change it, so I'm not going to sulk and be sad. I'm going to continue to do the work that God has called me to do and continue to chat, put a video out. I think you may have seen it on social media just to put my thoughts out there, put words to my feelings and just move forward. Yep.Speaker 1 (05:24):When you think about, is it okay if I ask you a couple of questions?Speaker 3 (05:28):Yeah.Speaker 1 (05:29):When you think about your research and completing your PhD and the theory and work and the evidence and structures you uncovered in that research, then how does that continue to frame your outlook for where we are today? ItSpeaker 2 (05:52):Couldn't, this election was interesting. This election confirmed for me, my research,Speaker 1 (05:59):Yes.Speaker 2 (06:02):I'll give you one part of it. In my research I talk about the plantation complex and it's made up of three major categories and there are subcategories under each one, organizing properties, modes of power, and operating practices. Three major categories Under organizing properties, there are four properties I list. I'm not saying it's an exhaustive list. Someone else might come in and want to tweak it and change it. That's fine. What I came up with is for vision covenant, spatial arrangement and epistemology, and specifically theological scientific epistemology, specifically white racial covenant. For those two, those are the specific terms I use. And to me, vice President Harris asked a question, this is about what kind of country do we want? That's a statement about what kind of vision do you have? Would you like to see this country embody? So vision is always there. We're always talking about, we're always casting vision when we tell stories, when we talk about how we want the, whether it's the education system, immigration, whatever. We're casting a vision, but what do we want to see? And then that ends up driving so much of what weSpeaker 3 (07:45):Do.Speaker 2 (07:48):We have the vision now of this is what America wants.Speaker 1 (07:52):Yes,Speaker 2 (07:54):They want this man with all, he's not just a flawed human being, in my opinion. He's a vile human being. She also is not a perfect candidate. She's a decent woman. She's a decent person. Two vastly different visions for this country. Then you talk about spatial arrangement. Electoral college is about spatial arrangement. You have your blue states, your red states, but everything comes down to five or six. Sometimes one state decides the election, and it all depends on who's living in that state, how are the districts redrawn. All types of stuff can play out. But to me, I saw that going on and then I saw white racial covenant play out. You look at who voted for who, percentage wise, and I kept seeing this allegiance, this covenant with Donald Trump, and there had to have been independents and even some Democrats that voted for him to have voted at such a high clip when his base is only 37%, 40% at most, and a Republican party is half. And he gets, I don't know. I just started to see those things play out. And from my dissertation, just those four categories, the stuff that we don't even pay attention to, they shape society, vision, spatial arrangement, covenant whose allegiance, who has your allegiance, because that drives decision making that drives what you value. It influences what you value. And epistemology, theological, scientific epistemology, he's the chosen one.(10:03):God chose him for such a time as the, I keep hearing this language. So they're using theological language to justify everything about this man. So yeah.Speaker 1 (10:18):Yeah.Speaker 2 (10:19):It's hard for me not to see through that lens. Now that I spent six years researching it, it's hard for me not to see through those lenses the lens of power, how power is operating, what type of power is operating and the practices and all that stuff.Speaker 1 (10:38):There's so much you said that I know we could jump into. Particularly when you talk about the white racial covenant. I was struck at, there's intersection between our research areas, and I was thinking about in grad school before I even got into my post-grad research, I wrote about three things for the Latinx Latino community that kind of inform the way white supremacy has infiltrated our lives. One is silence, one is compliance, and then lastly is erasure. And as we saw the swing, and they've talked ad nauseum about Latinos when we are a minimal part of the electoral vote, but they've talked ad nauseum about the movement specifically of men. But when you think of the demand to be silent over centuries, the demand to comply, and then the sense that maybe I can erase myself and what can I trade in for the good graces to get into the good graces of white racial identity and vote against my own best interests, vote against protecting my community, vote against even maybe even protecting my grandma or my kid that's on daca, et cetera. What was the cost? And as you were explaining that, I was seeing it through that lens that you were describing.Speaker 2 (12:17):Yep, yep. What's interesting is one of the practices, I talk about tokenization on the plantation or some would say tokenism, and there's always white racial covenant is not just among white people.(12:42):It's anyone from any group, including my community. Those who want, they want to be in closer proximity to whiteness. They want to be accepted into the white way of being. And when I say whiteness, you understand what I'm saying? I'm not just talking about white persons or white ethnicity. We're talking about a way of being in the world, a lens through which you see the world and move in that. And you can be a person of color and totally embrace whiteness, internalize that it only takes a few to then that's an effort to legitimize it, to legitimize. See, look at those. Look at that black guy or that Latino seed. They get it, and it further legitimizes that worldview.Speaker 1 (13:38):Yeah. I know for me, I felt so deeply, I don't think disappointment is the right word, but maybe I felt betrayed, but also I felt deeply, I just felt the weight of what centuries have done. And then I think it was like a Sunday afternoon where he's in Madison Square Garden using the most vile of comments, the most vile of comments to degrade our race, our ethnicity, where we come from, and then to turn around and garner a vote. I mean, it fits into your theory.Speaker 2 (14:26):So think about what he said when he first ran in 2016. I can stand on Fifth Avenue in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and I won't lose any votes. Now, fast forward to 2024 in Madison Square Garden, the lineup, the things he said, he didn't condemn anything. He invites white supremacists into his home for dinner. He welcomes them. He literally does not care because he understands the allegiance, not just from his base, but even those adjacent to his base. And that's why I keep saying, how low is this bar that you can have those people? Because everyone thought, oh, this is it. That just killed it for 'em. It did not matter. No, it did not matter. Some of it is, I think based on race, and some of it is based on gender. Some of it's a combination of both. And that's why I said in my video, she didn't stand a chance anytime people kept saying, we need to hear more and I need to get to know her more. Well, what are you watching?Speaker 3 (15:47):WhatSpeaker 2 (15:47):Else do you need to know? She's told her whole story over and over again. She's literally laid out bullet point, what she wants to do. What else is there half the people who say that don't even understand these concepts anyway?Speaker 3 (16:04):Yeah,Speaker 2 (16:05):They don't understand it. They're not understand this stuff.Speaker 1 (16:11):I guess what you say, really, it triggered something in my mind and see what you do with it. He stood in Madison Square Garden, and I actually wonder now, looking at it with the lens of a tiny bit of space that maybe if even that was riveting for people, even some of the adjacent people of color that voted for him, because it's riveting that someone could have that much power and get away with it and move in the world without consequence. And I think a lot of people are looking for that sort of autonomy or freedom to move or it's appealing. The power of it is appealing in a way that I didn't think about it before you said it, and I don't know that that's it, but I get curious about it because it definitely didn't take any votes away.Speaker 2 (17:09):And I'm glad you used the word curious because we're just theorizing right now, sharing opinions how we feel. And so I'm curious as well about a lot of these things. I'm just at a loss for words. I don't even know how to wrap my mind around that. I do think is an appeal though. I do think there is in my dissertation that the type of power that I talk about is autocratic ideological power where the ideology, it's not a person, the autonomous sovereign power. And I borrowed from Fuko, so I'm using a little bit of fuko, Michelle Fuko, and he uses the term sovereign power like king, a dictator, Vladimir Putin type of person. And I'm saying, don't have a king. And it's not one person with that type of autonomy, but there's an ideology that has that type of autonomy and we can add appeal, and it's the ideology of white supremacy. And it's almost like, well, he should be able to get away with that subconsciously. Not saying that people are saying that consciously, but it's almost like it's normalized like he should because had she said any of those things, oh, she shouldn't say those things. How dare she?(18:44):Or if Obama, when Obama said they clinging to their guns and their religion, they wanted to crucify. He shouldn't say those things. How dare he? But Trump can say, grab him by the lose no votes,Speaker 1 (19:04):Right?Speaker 2 (19:06):I don't like some of the things that he says. I wish he would tone down some of the things that he says, but so there's an autonomy. So where is it? Is it in him or is it in the ideology that he embodies? And it's appealing because so many people can share in that on different levels. So the idea is that if you go back to the plantation, every white person had some level of power over a black body and immunity, unless they got in trouble with a slave owner for killing or damagingSpeaker 1 (19:45):Property.Speaker 2 (19:47):But every person on every level shared to varying degrees in this autocracy of ideology, autocracy of white supremacy, same thing is happening today. So he can say it, the comedian can say it, congressmen and women can say it, Marjorie till green can say whatever she wants. Gates can say, I mean, these people can say whatever they want, especially if they're in closer proximity to him because he is the ultimate right now, the ultimate embodiment of the superiority of whiteness. And so there is this subconscious, I think, appeal to that. How we are drawn to the bad guy in the film. We're drawn to the villain in the wrestling match. We just kind of drawn to them a bit. There's an appeal to that type of power and to get away with it. So I like that word appeal to it,Speaker 1 (21:04):Man. I mean, I started getting really scared as you were talking because this power and this appeal and the way you're describing it, well, how did you say it? The ideology or is, what did you call it? Autonomous powerSpeaker 2 (21:27):Autocratic. Ideological power.Speaker 1 (21:29):Autocratic. Ideological power isn't just one person. It's embodied in this feeling. And that I think fits with the way I'm thinking. I got scared as you were talking because it's been hyper-focused on immigration and on a certain group of people so you can gain proximity to power. And I kind of wonder how is that going to play out? How will people play that out in their imaginations or in their communities is like what gets them closer to that power? Especially if, I mean, we could debate on tariffs and all that stuff, but no one I'm hearing from is telling me that tariffs are going to bring down the cost of goods. I've heard that nowhere. So then what are you going to do if you feel more hopeless and you're part of that working, let's say white or white adjacent class, where will you focus your energy? What can you control? So I think as you were talking, I started getting scared. I was like, this is a dangerous thing.Speaker 2 (22:34):So here's what I've told someone. Sadly, the only person who could have beaten Trump in 2020 was Joe Biden, a white man. A white woman wouldn't have been able to do it. Black woman, black man, Latino, Asian. It took a white man because people still needs to be, they needed to vote against him. They needed to see themselves. That's the majority of the country. They need to see themselves. Biden wasn't the best candidate by far. No, but he was the only one who could beatSpeaker 1 (23:16):Trump.Speaker 2 (23:17):Now, he wasn't going to win this election, even though Trump has shown signs over the last year or so of aging, doesn't matter. He's loud and boisterous. So he gets a little bit of a pass. But guess what? If that hopelessness sets in the left, the Democrats are going to have to present another white man. You're not going to beat the part. You're not going to win the next election with someone other than a white man to beat this. He is the embodiment. He is the golden calf. You need at least a beige calf. You're not going to win the next election with with someone that looks like me or you, or its going to be, that's the sad part. So with that hopelessness, if they feel that and they feel like, okay, it is been the last four years has not been what he's promised, you're going to have to present them with an alternative that's still adjacent, at least in aesthetics, optics. And then you might, after that, if everything is going well, now someone can come off of that. This is the unfortunate reality. Biden is the only one that was going to be able to beat him in 2020, and I think it's going to take the same thing in 2020. It's definitely going to take a man because he's got the movement, the masculine movement. He's brought that up to serve. It's going to take a man to do it. Unfortunately, a woman may not be able to push back against that, but I think it's going to have to take a white man.Speaker 1 (25:08):Yeah, I think you're right. I don't think another female can win against him. There's no waySpeaker 2 (25:15):He embodies the ideology of white in his posture, his tone, his rhetoric, his height, everything about him embodies, if you look at the history in this country of whiteness is the physical manifestation of it. And I'm not the only one that has said that.Speaker 1 (25:37):No,Speaker 2 (25:39):He is not just a physical manifestation. He is, at least in this era, he is the manifestation of it. He is the embodiment of it, attitude and everything.Speaker 1 (25:59):Yeah, I guess you just find me silent because I believe you. It's true. There's no doubt in my mind. And it's also stunning that this is where we're at, that people, again, I mean to fall back on what you've researched, people chose the plantation owner,Speaker 2 (26:31):And many people who do don't see themselves in the position of the enslaved,Speaker 1 (26:39):No,Speaker 2 (26:39):They see themselves as benefiting from or having favor from the plantation owner. They're either the overseer or the driver, or they're one of the family members or guests on the plantation. But no one's going to willingly choose a system that they don't benefit from. So they believe they will benefit from this, or they're willing to accept some treatment for the promise of prosperity. That's the other issue that we have. People see this. They see the world through an economic lens only. For me, I got to look at the world through a moral lens, an ethical lens. That's how I'm trained, but that's just how I've always been. Because if I look at it through an economic lens, I'll put up with anything, as long as you can put money in my pocket, you can call me the N word. If that's my, you can probably call me the N word. As long as you put money in my pocket, I'll tolerate it. And that's unfortunately how people see, again, when people talk about the economy, how many people understand economics,Speaker 1 (27:53):Honestly, whatSpeaker 2 (27:54):Percentage they do understand how much it's costing me to pay these groceries. What they don't understand is the why underneath all that, because I think they did one thing they could have done better. The Democrats is explain to people corporate greed. The cost of living is always going up. It may drop a little bit, but it's always doing this.Speaker 1 (28:29):But Phil, I would argue back with you that I don't think these people wanted to understand.Speaker 2 (28:35):You don't have to argue. I agree. ISpeaker 1 (28:38):Talked to some folks and I was like, dude, tariffs, your avocado's going to be $12. They mostly come from Mexico. How are you going to afford an avocado? And it's like, it didn'tSpeaker 2 (28:52):Matter. The golden calf.Speaker 1 (28:57):The golden calf, Elliot comes back. I mean, I want to work to make these people, in a sense, ignorant. I want to work to think of it like that, not because it benefits me, but maybe it does. To think that some people didn't vote with the ideas that we're talking about in mine, but they absolutely did.Speaker 2 (29:23):And I think you're dead on. It's a willingness or unwillingness to want to know. I'm just simply saying that many don't. You may see people interviewed on television or surveys, or even when you talk to people, I'm just simply saying they don't really understand. I got three degrees. I still need to read up and study and understand economics. That's not my field, right? So I'm still learning the nuances and complexities of that, but I'm a researcher by nature. Now most people aren't. So I'm just simply saying that they just don't know. They think they know, but they really don't. But a more accurate description of that is what you just said. Most people are unwilling to know. Because here's the thing, if you learn the truth about something or the facts about something, now you're forced to have to make a decision you might not want to make.Speaker 1 (30:28):Exactly. That's exactly right. Yep.Speaker 2 (30:35):It's like wanting to ban books and erase history and rewrite history. Because if you really did, to this day, whether I'm teaching or having conversations, I share basic stuff, stuff about history. And there's so many people that I never knew that, and I knew this stuff when I was a kid. I never knew that. What are we learning? Is everything stem.Speaker 1 (31:11):When Trump referenced the operation under Eisenhower Wetback, operation Wetback, I knew about that. I had researched it after high school in college, and I knew at that point, part of the success of that project was that they were able to deport citizens and stem the tide of, they didn't want them having more kids or reproducing, so they got rid of entire families. That was very intentional. That's purposeful. And so when they talk about deporting criminals, well, there just aren't that many criminals to deport. But for the Latino to understand that they would have to give up the idea that they could become adjacent to that power structure and benefit.Speaker 2 (32:12):Absolutely.Speaker 1 (32:14):YouSpeaker 2 (32:14):Have to give up something.Speaker 1 (32:15):You have to give up something. And so they traded in their grandma, literally, that's what's going to happen.Speaker 2 (32:27):And so now there's a connection between the golden calf and fear. So not only is he the idol, but he has the rhetoric to tap the fear, the anxiety. And when you've been in majority for a few hundred years now, the idea of no longer being the majority in the country scares a lot of people. It doesn't scare people of color. We don't really think about it because we've always been the minority. And I don't think one group is going to be the majority, maybe the Latino community because of immigration one day, maybe, probably not in my lifetime, but most of us are used to being in the minority that scares the dominant group, the white group. I've had conversations within the church years ago where this anxiety, not just with Latinos, but Muslims,Speaker 1 (33:41):Yep, MuslimsSpeaker 2 (33:42):As well. This fear that they're having so many more babies than we are, and how they try to pull people of color who are Americans into this by saying they're trying to have more babies than Americans. So now they want us to also have this fear of the other. So you got the idol who has the rhetoric to tap into the sentiments,Speaker 1 (34:13):Right? Yeah. Sorry, keep going. No,Speaker 2 (34:15):Go on. Go, go.Speaker 1 (34:17):Well, I mean, it just brings up the whole idea of when he said, the migrants are taking the black jobs. I was like, what jobs are these? And the intent is only to divide us.Speaker 2 (34:31):Yes. So I've had conversations with some African-Americans who I know are not, I know these people. These are just random people. They're not as in tune with politics. They're just kind of speaking the taglines that they heard. And I said, what jobs are they taking? And they can't answer that. But it's the same thing that happened 400 years ago almost. When they created the very terms white and black. There was this revolt among poor whites and poor and enslaved black people, particularly in Virginia. And I'm thinking of Bacon's Rebellion and how do you defeat that coalition? You divide them, you find a way to divide them. How's that? They came up with the term 1670s. They came up with the term white and black, and they had a range, I think it was somewhat white, almost white. White, somewhat black, almost black, black. But they had the termed white and black. And if you were of European descent, you could now be considered a white person. And with that came privileges, or as WEB, the voice would say the wages of whiteness, theSpeaker 1 (35:55):WagesSpeaker 2 (35:55):Of you could own property. And if you own a certain amount of property, you could vote. You could be a citizen. You had freedom of mobility. If you were black, you were meant to be enslaved in perpetuity. So now the poor whites, even though they did not benefit from slavery,Speaker 3 (36:20):BecauseSpeaker 2 (36:22):The free enslaved Africans took the opportunities from poor whites who were able to work the land and earn some type of money, but now you've got free labor. So slavery actually hurt them. And the hierarchy, it hurt them. Wealthy white folks did not look well upon for white people. But why were they so had such allegiance? Because they had this identity, this membership into whiteness. And at least they weren't on the bottom.Speaker 1 (37:04):At least they weren't on the bottom. That's right.Speaker 2 (37:07):And so the same tactic is happening here is find a way to divide black and brown, divide black and Palestinian divide, because you knew black women were going to vote 90 plus percent. I thought black men would be 80 plus percent. Turns out they were 78, 70 9%. I thought black men would've been a little bit higher than that, but you knew black folks were going to vote in mass. But you find a way to divide and separate others from that coalition.Speaker 1 (37:53):Yeah. Well, here we are, Phil. What gives you, and I know we could talk about this for a long time. What are you operating on right now? I know you said you're not going to wallow in the sadness at the very beginning, but what is your organizing moment? What is your faith compelling you to do in this moment? How do you see the coming year?Speaker 2 (38:19):I am doubling down on my voice being more direct, being more the truth teller. I never want to lose truth with grace. I don't want to become the thing I disdain, but it is through my writing that I'm now doubling down and able to publish and put out what I believe is truth. It's factually based evidence-based. Some may call controversial, some may not. I don't know. But that's where I put my energy because I have more energy now to do that since I graduated, so I can invest more time, whether it's working on my next book, project op-Eds articles in the next year. So that's what I'm hoping to write. I'm hoping to take a lot of what I learned in the last six years and put it out there for the world. So it is just motivating me even more, whether it's poetry, academic stuff, teaching, and I've already been doing some of that. I just have the energy now to engage more.Speaker 1 (39:54):And sadly, you have more material to work with.Speaker 2 (39:57):Yeah, yeah, that'sSpeaker 1 (39:59):True. It's happening in real time. Yeah,Speaker 2 (40:03):Real time.Speaker 1 (40:05):Well, how can folks get ahold of you if they want to invite you to be part of their group or to come speak orSpeaker 2 (40:12):Easiest would be phil allen jr.com. And they can go to, and you can email me through there, social media on Instagram, Phil Allen Jr. PhD, Facebook at Phil Allen Jr. Not the author page, the personal page. I'm still trying to delete the author page, but for whatever reason, Facebook makes it very difficult to delete your own page.Speaker 1 (40:42):They do,Speaker 2 (40:44):But Phil Allen Jr. My personal page is on Facebook. Those are only two social media platforms I have other than threads. Phil Allen, Jr. PhD on Instagram and Threads, Phil Allen Jr. On Facebook, Phil Allen jr.com, and those are the ways to reach me.Speaker 1 (41:04):How can folks get ahold of the writing you've already done in your research and read more about what we've been talking about? How can they get ahold of what you've already done?Speaker 2 (41:15):So my first two books, open Wounds and the Prophetic Lens, you can get 'em on Amazon, would love it if you could purchase a copy and after you've read, even if you read some of it and you felt led to leave a review, that helps. I'm currently revising my dissertation so that it's more accessible, so I'm changing, you get it, the academic language, that's not my true voice. So I'm trying to revise that so I can speak and sound more like me, which is more of a poetic voice. So I want to write in that sweet spot where it's still respected and used in academic spaces, but it's more accessible to people beyond academia who are interested in the subject matter. So that hopefully, I've been shopping it to publishers and I'm still shopping. So hopefully, if not next fall, hopefully by early 2026, that book can be published.Speaker 3 (42:21):Okay.Speaker 2 (42:24):The dissertation, you can go to ProQuest and you can type in my name Phil Allen Jr. You can type in the plantation complex.Speaker 3 (42:35):Okay.Speaker 2 (42:36):No, not the Plantation Complex America. The PlantationSpeaker 1 (42:41):America, the Plantation.Speaker 2 (42:43):That's the title. And it's on proquest.com. That's where dissertations are published. So right now, it may cost something to read it, to get ahold of it, but you can look for it there until we revise and rewrite and publish the book.Speaker 1 (43:01):I'm really looking forward to, I haven't read your dissertation, but I want to, and I'm really looking forward to reading that book that's coming out.Speaker 2 (43:09):Thank you. Yes. And my YouTube channel, I don't really talk much. You can just type in my name, Phil Allen, Jr. There's quite a few spoken word videos, some old sermons I on there as well.Speaker 1 (43:25):Okay. Thank you, Phil.Speaker 2 (43:29):Lemme stop. Thank you.Speaker 1 (43:32):Thank you for joining us today, and I'm just honored to be in conversation with folks that are on this journey. We are not alone. If you need other kinds of resources, please don't hesitate to look up in our notes, some of the resources we listed in previous episodes, and also take good care of your bodies. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

It's time we talked about Orthodoxy in more detail. I ask Father John Strickland to explain the Divine Liturgy, and it's Byzantine origins, to me.John is the pastor of an Orthodox Church in Poulsbo in Washington State. He has also written a four-volume series about the history of Christian civilization called Paradise and Utopia. And he's recorded a podcast of the same name as an accompaniment to the books. He also wrote the Making of Holy Russia: The Orthodox Church and Russian Nationalism before the Revolution. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  Contributors are listed here: Danielle S. Castillejo (Rueb), Cyon Edgerton, Rachael Reese, Chasity Malatesta, Debby Haase, Kim Frasier, Briana Cardenas, Holly Christy, Clare Menard, Marjorie Long, Cristi McCorkle, Terri Schumaker, Diana Frazier, Eliza Cortes Bast, Tracy Johnson, Sarah Van Gelder, Marwan, and more Welcome to the Arise Podcast, conversations on faith, race, justice, gender, and spirituality. You'll notice there's going to be some updated changes and different voices on the podcast this season. It's season five. It's October 1st, 2024. I haven't recorded a podcast since June of 2023, and at that time, if you've been following along in my town in Kitsap County, we were working through what would prove to be an extensive and prove to be an extensive fight for justice in our school district. And at this time, we have made some very significant shifts. I want to get into this episode to kind of catch you up on where I'm at, where the podcast is at, and hopefully as you listen to myself and some different voices on these upcoming podcasts, you understand that we have this fundamental common theme amongst us, which is our humanity. And when we drop down into that humanity, because our work, our lives, our families, there's all these poles and all these different ways for us to separate ourselves from our humanness and be busy or accomplish this or accomplish that.(00:01:52):And I know because I'm in there too, we actually separate ourselves from our neighbor. And so I'm hoping as we engage tough topics of politics and we get into the sticky points of it, that there's a sense that, yeah, I don't agree with that person or I agree with that person, but there is a sense that there is shared humanity. And so as we talk about these different subjects, I wanted to emphasize that first, an article was released in the fall last year saying in September of 2023 saying that there was, the school district's investigation had concluded and they had deemed that there was no racism in the North Kitsap School district. As you can imagine, a report like that on the front page of the paper, after all we'd been through after sitting through numerous hours of meetings listening to families and their experiences was disheartening.(00:02:45):We came to find out that some of the families felt or experienced what they deemed to be threatening tones from the investigators or understood that they could possibly be under penalty of perjury depending on what they answered. And I'm not saying that this was always the case, but the threat was on the table. And when you're dealing with working with majority world peoples who are marginalized in the United States, that threat can be very real. And the impact of it is very great. So I began to understand that this investigation wasn't actually looking for the truth and how to solve the problem. It was actually looking for a way of complete and utter defense against what these families had reported their students had experienced. It's a very different thing. And I think there were rumors like were these families going to sue the district, bring a lawsuit to the district?(00:03:41):And we've seen in neighboring school districts, just in recent times, lawsuits have been filed for much less. I mean, we had 90 original complaints. We have more people that had come forward as time had moved on. And yet there was never a move to actually file a lawsuit. We didn't file a lawsuit. We continued to move forward with our lives and think about our students. I think at some point in last fall of 2023, there was just a sense of deep despair like we put in years of effort. And the result was this report that basically attempted to delegitimize all the stories of all these families. It was horrible and heartbreaking and followed the fall. And in the late winter there was going to be a vote for this school bond. And as the yes for the bond campaign rolled out, led by a committee of yes folks, which included some Paul's Bowl rotary members and then the superintendent, it became clear to different community members that there were a lot of questions still to be asked, a lot of information we wanted to have and a lot of things that just felt like they were missing.(00:04:57):I'm not saying they were all missing, but there were pieces and details that appeared to be missing. And when we asked the questions similar to what happened with the complaints, we didn't get answers. The answers were couched in long paragraphs or explanations, and the architects seemed like they didn't have access to the buildings. Again, we didn't know all the details of what happened. And this is just a general recap. You can look at the ensuing political drama online. If you Google superintendent signs and polls Bowl, Washington, P-O-U-L-S-B-O Washington, you will find articles on NBC to Fox News to video clips, all of the above. There were signs all over our county, as I'm sure in your different counties or if you live in Kitsap, you've seen them political signs, vote yes on the bond, vote no on the bond, et cetera. And it appeared that signs were going missing.(00:06:02):And in one case, the signs were going missing often in one particular location and a pair of folks who are not married who became allied because they were both against the bond and had been putting up no on bond signs, decided to put up a wildlife cam and we're able to capture a person destroying the signs on video. And again, Google sbo, Google signs, Google Superintendent look for February 20, 24 articles and you'll see the ensuing reports of what happened. This became a chance for us actually to revisit our story because there's a theme of dishonesty from the top leadership. There was a theme of hiding. There's a theme of not giving all the information a theme of there's any extent we can go to that bumps up against the law. By the way, I think it's against the law to destroy political signs. So there's just this theme that you could break the law and get away with it.(00:07:08):We've seen in the top politics of our country down to the low level politics of our country. And what was our community going to do with all of this? We rallied together. For the first time in many years, there were literally hundreds of people on a zoom call for a school board meeting. News agencies showed up again, and sadly, our district was in the news for something else negative related to the top leadership. And it was very sad. The process. The superintendent was put on leave and resigned in June, but stopped working essentially closely with the school board. I think it was in March or April of 2024. I just remember that when the harm stops, when someone harmful is told by law enforcement or the law or someone else in a higher power to stop harming it, it's a relief. But also that's the time when all of the residual trauma sets in the trauma that you've been going through to be in proximity to someone in leadership and you're literally powerless to address it.(00:08:19):And I guess I bring this up to say that as we think about politics nationally, locally, whether it's a school board member or a president, I remember feeling challenged When I live in a small town, paulville was a small town. It is not like Seattle size. It's like got rural folks. There's folks that commute into the city of Seattle. We're, we're a mix of all different kinds of socioeconomic backgrounds. Our school district is now 38% Spanish speaking this year. There is a genuine mix. So when you're out and about in this small container, Kitsap's also very small too. It's rural, it's small. We're kind of contained on our own peninsula. When you're in this environment, the chances that you're going to see someone that you're know are really high, it's not like if you hate someone about, you're not going to run into Donald Trump here.(00:09:11):You're not going to run in here, run into Kamala Harris here. It's not like you're running into those folks, but you might run into your representative. You might run into the school board member from this district or another district. And how are you going to see that person that actually you not only disagree with, but you felt has been unjust to you? Costs a lot. I mean, money's one thing, but time, effort, family, reputation, allies, there is so much time involved and the way forward. You think it's clear when you're fighting on behalf of kids, you're advocating on behalf of kids. That feels really good. But the process to work through that advocacy often doesn't feel that great. You have to become allies with people you don't agree with. And so I think that just brings me back to where do we find our common humanity?(00:10:06):Where do we find space to occupy a same piece of land or a same meeting or a similar, we have similar causes, but maybe there's deep hurt between us and maybe that hurt is to the point where we're not going to ever talk to that person again, and how do we still see them as human? How do we still see them as valuable in this world? How do we still gain compassion? Those are things I ask myself and I don't have the answers. So I've included a number of folks asking a similar questions about humanness, about politics, about where they locate themselves in their various positions, their race, ethnicity, et cetera, and how do they come at this? And I hope you enjoy the following conversations because I conversations or talks from these people, commentary from these people as we hear all different perspectives. Now you may hear someone and be like, I can get down with that. I agree with that. And then there's another person you might be like, no way, no effing way. And so I encourage you to listen, stay curious with yourself and have talks with your family about how you're going to engage this political season.Speaker 2 (00:11:26):Danielle asked me how I see being human in the age of politics, and I'm struggling answering this because A, I am not a politician or have really any experience as a politician. I have experience as a community based organizer. So I am speaking on this on the outside of things. And then also I'm a white woman able bo, heterosexual woman. And the politics and the systems of power were built for me as a white person to thrive. And so I just want to locate myself in that because my view is of a privileged view. White folks can step in and out of politics without it really harming us. And that's a problem, obviously, and it distorts our view of politics.(00:12:55):But with this question, I have become more and more angry and upset with politics, policies, systems of power, the more that I unlearn and learn about my internal white supremacy culture and ways of being. And as the genocide in Palestine and other countries continue, I don't think the political structures are here for us. They're not people centered, they're not community centered. I think all politics are really about power. And so as an outsider, as not a politician and as a white woman, so those are flawed views. I'm coming from a flawed view. I see how politics change people or they make bad people even worse. I know local white folks that are in it for power and just continue on searching for more and more power. And I've witnessed community organizers join politics to really try to change the systems. But I don't think politics or the system was made to help humans. I don't think the system is for humans. And it hurts people, it divides people. I don't really know how to answer this question because I don't think politics and humanists can actually go together, not the way that they're set up now.Speaker 3 (00:15:09):These questions are so beautiful and just so right on time for this time, we're in right before an election where there's so much stress. My name is Sara Van Gelder and I am a friend of Danielle's and a resident of Kitsap County for many years have I was one of the founders of YES magazine. I also founded a group called People's Hub, which teaches community folks how to do local organizing, actually peer to peer teaching. I didn't do the teaching, but connected people together to teach each other and been associated as a ally of the Suquamish tribe at various times in my life, but I did not ever speak for them.(00:15:54):So my own humanity in the context of this political moment, I like to stay in a place of fierce love and do when I can. I can't say I'm always there. I'm often triggered. I often go into a place of feeling really fearful and anxious about what's going on in the world and more particularly the polarization and the rise of which what I don't like to call, but I think is actually a form of fascism. And when I talk about fierce, it means being willing to say the truth as I see it, but also love, which is that that is the motivator. I don't like seeing people get hurt and I'm willing to stand up and be one of the people to say what I see, but not in a way that is intended to degrade anybody. I am a mother, I'm a grandmother, I'm a daughter, I'm a sister. And being connected to people through love and that sense of willingness to protect one another, that's at the core. So even if I disagree with you, I'm not going to wish you harm.Speaker 1 (00:17:12):Wow. Wow. Even if I disagree with you, I'm not going to wish you harm. And I think what I've heard just particularly lately around the talk of immigration, let's say for an example, is the talk about immigration in the context of a particular city. For instance, they've used Springfield, Ohio over and over. It's come up many times and the demonization, the dehumanization of those immigrants, the miscategorizing of their status, it seems like some of this can get point hyper-focused on one particular example to make a political point or to drive fear home across different context, different communities. So when you think about that, do you wish those people harm that are making those accusations? How do you engage a tough subject like that?Speaker 3 (00:18:15):Yeah, it's a really hard one, and I could tell you what I aspire to do and what I actually do a lot of times is avoid people who have that level of disagreement with, because I'm not sure I have enough in common to even have a good conversation. So I don't feel like I'm as good at this as I'd like to be. But what I try to do is to first off, to recognize that when we're in the fight or flight sort of reptilian brain, when we're super triggered, we have the least capacity to do good work of any kind. So I try to get out of that mindset, and in part I do that by trying to listen, by trying to be an active listener and try to listen not just for the positions. The positions are ones that will likely trigger me, but to listen for what's beneath the positions, what is somebody yearning for?(00:19:10):What is it that they're really longing for beneath those positions that I find so harmful and so triggering. So in many cases, I think what people are looking for in this immigration debate is a sense of belonging. They want to believe that their community is a place where they belong and somehow believe that having other people who are from different cultures move in reduces the chances that they'll be able to belong. So what would it mean if they could feel like they belonged along with the Haitians in their community that it didn't have to be an either or is there a way to have that kind of conversation that what if we all belong(00:19:54):In that respect? The thing that I am sometimes most tempted to do, which is to cancel someone, if you will, that actually feeds into that dynamic of not belonging because I'm telling that person also, you don't belong in my life. You don't belong in my community. So it's not easy to do, but I do feel like we have a better chance of doing that locally than we have doing it nationally because locally we do have so many things we have in common. We all want to drink clean water, we want clean air. We want places our kids can go to school where they will belong and they will feel good. So if we can switch the conversation over to those deeper questions, and I think one thing I've learned from hanging out with indigenous folks is the way in which they think about the seven generations and how much more expansive of you that can give to you when you think that way.(00:20:54):Because instead of thinking about again, that immediate threat, that immediate personal sense of anxiety, you start thinking, well, what's going to work for my kids and my grandkids? I don't want them to be experiencing this. Well, that means something about having to learn how to get along with other people, and we want our kids to get along with each other. We want them to have friends and family, and when they marry into a different culture, we want to feel good about our in-laws. I mean, we want our neighborhood to be a place where our kids can run around and play outside. I mean, there's so many things that once you start expanding the scope to other generations, it makes it so clear that we don't want that kind of society that's full of hate and anxiety.Speaker 1 (00:21:44):Wow, seven generations. It is true. I do a lot of reading and I think about res, are you familiar with Resa and my grandmother's hands? And he talks about that the shifts we want to make in society, the shifts towards being more in our actual physical bodies and present with one another and the reps that it takes, the way we're disrupting it now to make a dent in the 400 plus year history of slavery and the act of embodying ourselves from the harm that has been done is going to take five to seven generations. It's not that he's not for change now. He absolutely is. And just having that long term, almost like marathon view perspective on what change has either for ourselves that can give ourselves grace and that we can also give others in our proximity grace, while also not engaging in active harm. I think there's an important part there. Does that make sense?Speaker 3 (00:22:51):Oh, it makes so much sense. And it's like that long-term view doesn't suggest we can put off working. It only even happens in the long term if we start today, we take the first steps today. So yes, absolutely makes sense. I'm not sure I'm patient enough to wait for all those generations, but I want to be keeping them in my mind and heart when I act. How is this going to contribute to their possibilities? So part of that is by thinking about these questions of belonging, but it's also questions of exclusion more structurally. I think the fact that our society has such deep exclusion economically of so many people, there's so many people across the board who feel so precarious in their lives. I think that sets us up for that kind of scapegoating because ideally what we'd be saying is, if you can't afford to go to college, if you can't afford a medical bill, if you can't afford a place to rent, there's a problem with our economy.(00:23:56):Let's look at that problem with our economy and do something about it. And I believe people have gotten so disempowered. So feeling that that's beyond them to do that. Then the next thing that the demagogues will do is say, well, let's look for a scapegoat then. Let's look for a scapegoat of somebody who's less powerful than you and let's blame them because that'll give you a temporary sense of having power. And that's how, I mean it's not unique to our situation. It's how fascism so often unfolds and how historically groups have been scapegoated. And I think we need to turn our attention back to what is the real cause of our anxiety. And I think the real cause of our anxiety is economic and political disfranchisement. Once we can actually tackle those topics, we can see how much more we can do when we work together across all isms and make things happen for a world in which everyone has a place.Speaker 1 (00:24:55):So then if you know people in your sphere, let's say, and don't name them here, that border on the narrative that says, if you disenfranchise someone less powerful than you, that will bring you some relief. If you have people like that in your life, Sarah, how do you approach them? How do you engage with them if you're willing to share any personal experience?Speaker 3 (00:25:28):Yeah, so my biggest personal experience with that was working as an activist alongside the Suquamish tribe when a lot of their immediate neighbors were trying to keep them from building housing, keep them from building relationships with other governments and actually took them to court trying to actually end their sovereign right to be a tribe. So that was my most direct involvement and that was 20 years ago. So it seems like ancient history, but I learned a lot from that, including from working with tribal elders who provided a lot of leadership for us and how we should work. And one of the things that I've learned from that and also from being a Quaker, is that the notion of how you talk to people in a nonviolent way, and a lot of that starts with using I statements. So when people in my neighborhood would say really disparaging things about the tribe, I would respond with, I feel this. I believe the tribe has sovereign rights. I believe they have always been here and have the right to govern themselves and build homes for their members. And it's harder, it's not as triggering when somebody says, I instead of starts with a word(00:26:58):When somebody says, you immediately have this responsive defensiveness because it's unclear what's going to come next and whether you're going to have to defend yourself when you say I, you're standing in your own power and your own belief system and you're offering that to someone else with the hope that they might empathize and perhaps even perhaps be convinced by part of what you have to say. But in the meantime, you haven't triggered a worsening of relationships. And one of the things I really didn't want to do was create anything that would further the violence, verbal most cases, violence against the tribe, sort of getting people even further triggered. So it was just really important to always be looking for ways to be very clear and uncompromising on really important values, but be willing to compromise on ones that were not important. So for example, when we were working on getting the land return to the tribe that had been a state park, we asked people what's important to you about how this park functions in the future? Because the tribe can take that into account they, but the idea that it is their land, the home of chief Seattles, that was not something we could compromise on.Speaker 1 (00:28:17):I love that using I statements intentionally checking in with yourself so you're not engaging in behaviors that trigger another person further into more defensive mode. Sarah, what are some resources or recommendations you could leave with me or us? When you think about engaging people and staying very present, it's a very human stance to say, I think I believe this versus an accusatory tone like you are this, you are that.Speaker 3 (00:28:50):I think the nonviolent communication that Marshall Rosenberg developed is very powerful. He has a very specific technique for having those kinds of conversations that are very focused on that notion about the I statement and also reflecting back what you hear from other people, but then being willing to use statements about what I need because saying that puts me in a position of being vulnerable, right? Saying I actually need something from you. You obviously have the choice of whether you're going to give it to me or not, but I need to be in a place where I can feel safe when we have these conversations. I need to feel like I live in a community where people are so then the other person has that choice, but you're letting them know and you're again standing in your own power as somebody who's self-aware enough, it also invites them to be self-aware of what they need.Speaker 1 (00:29:46):I love that. Yeah, keep going.Speaker 3 (00:29:50):I think there are other resources out there. I'm just not calling 'em to mind right now, but I think nonviolent communications is a really good one.Speaker 1 (00:29:58):And locally, since you talked locally, what are maybe one or two things locally that you regularly engage in to kind of keep up your awareness to keep yourself in a compassionate mode? How do you do that for youSpeaker 3 (00:30:16):Being out in nature? Okay,Speaker 1 (00:30:19):Tell me about that.Speaker 3 (00:30:22):Oh, in Japan, they call it forest bathing, but it's just a fancy term for being in some places it's really natural. There's beautiful walks. We're very fortunate here in the northwest that there are so many beautiful places we can walk. And when you're surrounded by preferably really intact ecosystems where you can feel the interactions going on among the critters and the plants and just let that wash over you because part of that as well, it kind of helps take some of the pressure off. It sort of releases some of us being kind of entangled in our own ego and lets us just have greater awareness that we're actually entangled in this much larger universe. It's much, much older and we'll go on way after we're gone and extends to so many different ways of being from a bird to a tree, to a plate of grass, and we're all related.Speaker 4 (00:31:33):Hey, this is Kim. So just a brief background. I am a 41-year-old biracial woman. I am a mom, a nurse, a child of an immigrant, and I identify as a Christian American. Thanks Danielle for asking me to chime in. I just wanted to touch base on this current political climate. I would say as a liberal woman, I really enjoy diversity and hearing and seeing different perspectives and engaging in meaningful conversation. Unfortunately, I feel like right now we are so polarized as a country and it's not like the air quote, good old days where you could vote for a politician that you felt like really represented your ideals and kind of financially what you value, policies, et cetera. Now I feel like it has become really a competition and an election of human rights, and I think for me, that's kind of where I draw my own personal boundary.(00:32:40):I think it's important to share different perspectives, and I think I do have a unique perspective and I enjoy hearing others' perspectives as well, but for me, I do draw the line at human rights. So I have learned over the years to just not engage when it comes to issues of individuals being able to choose what to do with their body, women in particular, it's terrifying to me as a nurse and a woman and a mother of a daughter who could potentially be in a situation at some point and not be allowed to make choices about her own body with a doctor. Also as the child of an immigrant, I was raised by a white mother, Irish German Catholic, and my father is an immigrant that has been here since 19 76, 77. He is from Trinidad and Tobago. He's actually served in the military and I have a hard time with vilifying people of color trying to come to this country and make a better life for themselves and for their future and their future generations, which is exactly what my dad was doing. So to me, it's a no-brainer, right? Not to tell anybody what to do or how to vote, but I think that it's really hard right now to hold space for individuals who may be attacking my rights as a woman, my ability as a nurse to be able to care for patients and really what this country was supposedly built on, which is being a melting pot and allowing any and everyone here to be able to pursue the American dream and make a life for themselves and their loved ones.Speaker 5 (00:34:34):As soon as the topic turns to politics, I feel myself cringe, and then I want to internally retreat a bit. Looking back over the past eight plus years, I realize I have been feeling like this for a long time. My body holds memories of heated, uncomfortable confrontive distancing and sometimes horrifying conversations with friends and at times, even with family, I'm tired as most people tired from the collective traumas. We have all lived through political, racial, and pandemic related. Eight years ago, I think I worked to try and remain objective. I told myself that my job was just to hear the other person with curiosity, but doing that was not enough to help me stay well in the midst of what I truly could not then and cannot still control. I've come to realize that I have to stay connected to my own feelings, to my own limitations.(00:35:37):I have to make space to feel my disappointment, my disgust, my fear, my sadness, my powerlessness, my ache, even my longing still when it comes to the realm of politics, I have to make room for my own humanity and then I have to be willing to share that, not simply be a listening ear for others. What's been most difficult for me as politics has driven division and disconnection is the loss of healthy dialogue and conversation. It feels to me like relational loss is there where it doesn't seem like it always has to be. I am passionate about the table, about creating and cultivating space at a table for all the voices and for all of the stories to belong. I still believe in this, and when I'm connected to my own humanity, it makes me far more open to the humanity of another, knowing my own stories that are being stirred up and activated by injustice, by what I perceive to be irresponsible politicians and policies that don't make sense to me and at times scare me when I'm in the presence of those who hold very different political views from me.(00:37:02):I have to actively choose to not just tolerate listening to them, but instead to try and listen for something more. I try to listen for the fear that often fuels their positions. The fear is always storied and the stories offer taste of their humanity and oftentimes their experience of suffering, which always offers the opportunity for empathy. I can't do it all the time. Some situations don't afford the time for curiosity and sharing. When that happens, I need space afterwards, space to release what I don't need or want to hold that I heard space to feel my own humanity again, and then space to choose to remember the humanity of the other person, and that is all an active practice. I think that othering people into political camps and categories is easily available and every time it happens, we lose more and more of our collective humanity and we feed the machine of hate that profits from our conversational and emotional laziness.Speaker 6 (00:38:11):I can't say it's always easy, that's for sure. What I try to do is see another person, whether it's around the political views or other things that I may not agree with somebody about or I might even actually see them as a quote enemy, is for one thing, I drop into my heart and get out of my head about ideas, views, and just try to be present in my heart as much as possible with as little judgment as possible and recognize the essence of the other person, the essence that's inside all the beliefs and the views, and recognizing also that we all have some sort of wounding from our lives, maybe our lineages, our generations, maybe even past lives and or trauma, and that that can obscure the essence of who we are, and I try to really remember that essence in another person.(00:39:34):And in relation, how do you see your own humanity? The other question you ask, how do you see your own humanity in the context of political dialogue? I have to say that's not really a question I thought about. I thought about how to see the humanity in others, so I really appreciate this question. I think if I start othering the other, if I get into too much judgment, I feel like I lose my own sense of humanity or at least the type of human I hope and wish to be. What helps me to I guess, discern when I'm in my own humanity, when I'm in the best of places, I guess I don't know how else to word that is I tune into my values. What do I value most and am I living by those values in the way that I want to be human In this world, for example, for me, integrity is super important as well as respect and compassion.(00:40:44):I'm not saying I'm always in this place, but these values that I aspire to live by help bring me into my own humanity and almost like check, checking in, tuning in checkpoints in a way, when I speak about compassion, sometimes people, all of what I'm saying, I want to, even though I'm maybe trying to see the essence of someone, I do try to discern that if there's being harm done, I'm not okaying any harm at all. And when I try to live by compassion, I feel like that's when I can really see the humanity in others and compassion for myself. I view compassion as a very active verb, a little bit different than empathy. Just that compassion is seeing the suffering, but wanting to do something about it and doing something for me. Compassion includes action, and sometimes that action is helping to disrupt or interrupt harm that's happening, and that's how I can show up in my humanity for others is the best I can do is acting as well as being that balance both, andSpeaker 7 (00:42:23):I'm Diana, she her and I didn't use to see myself in politics the way that I do now. It took decades for me to really start to get a grasp about who I actually am and how the ways I view politics, the ways I vote, who I support, how it actually affects me, and I spent a lot of years voting for things that hurt me without even realizing I was doing that because I was following the messaging and believing it. Ultimately that being a good fill in the blanks meant voting for fill in the blanks or being a good fill in the blanks meant donating to or supporting or whatever, fill in the blanks. And I hurt myself by doing that because I wasn't listening to my own knowing or my own intuition or looking in the mirror at who am I? What kind of world do I want to live in? I didn't ask myself those questions. I did what I thought I was supposed to do to fall in line, and there were people in my life during that who spoke truth, and it was true because it was individual to them. It was, here's what I know about me and here's what this policy means for me. And I didn't get it. I certainly didn't get it.(00:44:09):I judged it inside my own head, and yet those people who spoke their own individual truth are the people who were able to shed light through the cracks in my facade. And years later, I remember some of the things that people said or that they posted or whatever because those were the light that I saw through the cracks and it was so memorable, even though at the time I might have been irritated by it, it was memorable because I loved and respected these people and so their words didn't matter to me, even though at the time I very much disagreed and I hope that I will be allowed to be the light in some people's cracks because I know for a fact there's so many people like me who haven't actually looked at who they are, what they want, what kind of world do they want to live in if they separate themselves from the ideology of where they work or where they go to church or their family of origin or what their spouse is telling them, no honey, who are you? What do you want? And when people can be brave enough to do that, its everything up.Speaker 8 (00:45:46):My name is Marwan Cameron, and I was asked to answer a couple questions here, and the first question was, how do you see your own humanity in the context of political dialogue? And I had to think about this question. Our humanity is front and center when we talk about politics primarily because the issues that affect us, meaning the black community are often sidelined or ignored. I'll share some examples of that. Democrats and Republicans both speak about healthcare, the economy crime, but when they have centered those conversations around the realities they face, when do you actually see that take reparations. For example, we hear a lot about tax cuts or healthcare reform, but nothing about reparations for chattel slavery, for foundational black Americans which are owed to black people for centuries of exploitation. You can even look at our prison system where men are going to prison without HIV and very low percentages and then coming out several times higher when they are released from jail and prison, and I'll get into some of those stats. Also.(00:47:15):When we look at black men that are falsely accused of sexual assault, unfortunately we go back to Emmett Till and we never really talk about the contemporary men. I have a list of a hundred black men that have been falsely accused in the last five years alone. Albert Owens 2023, Christian Cooper, 2020, Joshua Wood, Maurice Hastings, Jonathan Irons, 2000, Anthony Broadwater, 2021, Mark Allen, 2022, Franklin, west 2020, Michael Robertson, Shaw, Taylor, Dion, Pearson 2021, Stanley Race 2019 Rashan Weaver 2020. Henry Lee McCollum, 2020. David Johnson, Jamel Jackson, Charles Franklin, Kevin Richardson, Raymond Santana, Corey Wise, you, Celine, Aron McCray, Brian Banks, which is a pretty famous name, Wilbert Jones. That's just 20 names in the last five years of a list of a hundred that I have that have been falsely accused of sexual assault, these aren't things that we talk about. Question two, how do you make space for folks in your proximity who did not share your political views as a heterosexual black male in this country, you really have no choice but to make space for others' Political views as in question number one, we are really only allowed to speak about injustices or political needs in the framework of the black community as a whole.(00:49:25):Matter what side you find yourself on, whether you're a Republican, we're oftentimes they straight up say, we're not acknowledging what your needs are. We're not going to do anything about your needs. You can come over here and vote with us if you want. As Trump said, what have you got to lose? What have Democrats done for you? Or you can look at the democratic side where in the last three elections, it's been existential against Donald Trump. And when Donald Trump won and then lost and is running again, we still haven't seen things like the repeal of qualified immunity, things like atoning for the most heinous crimes that the United States has committed in chattel slavery against black men. I've made space. We have made space as black men in regards to those who do not share our political views. Black men have fought in every war for the United States of America. We have stood up, stood behind, been sacrificed for the good of almost every cause, and we're told not yet. It's not the right time. We too need, have needs, and it becomes a zero sum game.Speaker 9 (00:51:19):Growing up, we had Sunday dinners at my grandparents. Conversation was always lively with my family, talking loudly, fast, and often right over each other. We talked about everything, what was happening around us, our community, what was in the paper and on the news that evening. We didn't always agree. In fact, I think my grandparents debated opposite sides. Just for fun, I fondly remember my grandmother saying, your grandpa and I are canceling each other's votes at the polls. They would both smile and sometimes laugh. Considering my upbringing, I was surprised to hear my instructor at cosmetology school lay down the law. Politics and religion were never to be discussed, not in school, and certainly not if we wanted to be successful professionally. I learned to smile and nod. I strive to find common ground with the opinion of guests. I was raised not to look for any offense with ideas that contrasted my own.(00:52:16):It takes both a left and a right wing to make the eagle fly and what a boring world this would be in if we all agreed. But then Trump happened up until he achieved power. Generally speaking, whether the law or policy was written by conservatives, liberals, moderates, there was a basis of bettering the American way of life. To be clear, this wasn't always the advancement of protection we agreed with, but we could see the logic of it. For the most part, Trump's leadership consists of a hatred for people who are not like him. Early on in his campaign, he told Americans to police their neighbors if they were of a specific religion he has built upon dehumanization and vilification every day sense. My mother lived in Germany for a few years and a town not far from Dau. It was the early 1960s and not yet recovered from World War ii.(00:53:21):This quaint little town overlooks the Bavarian Alps with architects right out of a storybook and a stunning view of Munich. It was evidence that the residents of this charming quiet village were aware that 800,000 people came in and no one left. History books paint the picture that everyone was scared of speaking up for fear they would be next. But with critical thinking, we know many of those approved. They've been listening to the nonsense of their leaders, their beliefs that Jews, the disabled homosexuals, immigrants were a burden on the healthcare system, education system, taking their German jobs, businesses, and homes. They were demonized so strongly, so powerfully. They were no longer human, no longer their neighbors, doctors, teachers, bakers seamstresses their talents, their skills and their very humanity no longer existed. We know this to be true, but what we don't talk about is the slope that good people slid down that enabled this to take place in the coffee shops, birthday parties, sitting with friends, playing cards, Sunday family dinners, these words came up.(00:54:43):Hitler's rhetoric spread and thoughtful kind people did not correct their friends, family, guests and clients. There were Nazis and sympathizers, but there were good people that saw through Hitler's dumpster fire of lies. These are the people I wonder if they ever slept well again. Could they ever look at themselves with honor and integrity? Trump proudly uses this method. He has people willing to do his bidding. He has sympathizers, but what he doesn't have is my silence, my obedience. My voice is the born power. I have to stand strong and correct the lies he tells and the people in my circle repeat. I will lose clients and friends taking this action, and that's a price I'm willing to pay, but I'm not willing to live out the rest of my days knowing that I didn't do everything in my power to stop in.Speaker 10 (00:55:49):How do you make space for folks in your proximity who don't share your political views? I am lucky that I live next to my parents and that my mother-in-law lives in a small home on our property. For years, there was a constant strife between my parents, myself, husband, and my mother-in-law due to political and religious beliefs, uncomfortable dinners, having to watch what you say, an aura of judgment that would seem to permeate family gatherings. They were quite the norm. And each time that they would leave, I would feel a sense of relief. Sometimes someone would decide not to come or just tell us that they needed a break. This would create less tension, but I worry that someone would feel left out or that they would feel judged if they weren't present. And actually that would happen more often or not, especially in my time of anger before and during Covid.(00:56:40):As mentioned before, when I decided that I needed to focus on my own sense of happiness and live up to my values and beliefs, I decided that my home would become a politics, religion free zone. I wanted my home to be a safe for everyone. And this was a tough transition. And what was most difficult was creating boundaries for our parents, having the hard conversations about why we're asking people to withhold their opinions on politics and religion and to focus on grandkids sports and family celebrations, et cetera. For the first few months, I was constantly reminding everyone of the rule, but eventually we all seemed to settle in and even catch ourselves when we deviated from how sex expectations, dinners and events became more pleasant. And when our guests would leave, I didn't have to decompress or worry about how to fix an issue or soothe someone's feelings.(00:57:27):This one simple step has been a game changer, and it's not always perfect, and sometimes people will slip up, but instead of taking on the issue, we will move the conversation to another topic. Some would say that we need to talk about the issues and debate their merits so that we can grow and come together. But no, after finding my purpose, I don't believe that being right is more important than someone else's feelings. I want everyone who sits at my table and breaks spread with me to feel loved and valued. It's not perfect because we're human, but we're trying one dinner at a timeSpeaker 11 (00:58:03):To how do I hold my own humanity? In the context of political dialogue, one of the first things that comes to mind for me is, at least in political conversations, what defines my humanity? When I think about politics, much of our politics is really about power and privilege, of which I happen to have both. And so when I'm thinking about politics, I'm thinking about my social location as a able-bodied, middle class, heterosexual Christian White woman, I carry privilege in almost every aspect of that identity, at least here in the United States. And so when I'm thinking about humanity and political dialogue, our political system has historically always been and continues to be set up to serve people with my type of humanity very well. The thing that I'm constantly trying to keep in my mind is what about the humanity of my brothers and sisters experiencing oppression, marginalization when it comes to my voice and my vote in political situations, I have over the years had to learn to think less about how can I use my vote and my voice to engage in politics in a way that benefits me because I'm already benefiting from our system.(00:59:42):Our system is set up to benefit people like me who carry great levels of social privilege. What I really want to know as I'm trying to use my voice and my vote wisely now, is how do I leverage both of those things, my voice, my vote, as well as my power and privilege to engage in political dialogue in ways that fix broken systems. So I am oftentimes not actually voting or advocating for the things that would benefit me the most or necessarily align perfectly with my theological or political ideals. I'm looking at where are the most broken places in our system? Where is our government currently oppressing individuals the most? And how can my vote and my voice be used to leverage our politics in such a way that those broken systems begin to get fixed and healed over time so that those whose humanity looks different than mine are receiving the same amount of privilege of assistance of power that they should be.(01:00:57):And when it comes to dealing with those that I'm in proximity with who have very different political ideologies than myself, of which I will say in my current context, there are quite a few. I am constantly having to remind myself to focus on core values, values over stances that our conversations and our engagement with one another centers not so much around opinions about specific political stances or issues as much as the core values that we share. If my core value is for equality and equity, if my core value is that we're caring for the poor and the marginalized, then regardless of what stances I might have on certain issues, my voice and my vote represents those core values. And I've found that even when certain stances might be different, when we dig into the core values that are at the root of our decision-making, there's oftentimes a lot more common ground than I ever expect there to be.Speaker 12 (01:02:06):This recording is for the fabulous Danielle Castillo. I think what I am seeing right now as I think about how to welcome people's humanity and politics are a few key things that are both shocking and I would say disappointing in a day and age where we seem to want to tolerate people not being locked into binary spaces, we have relegated differences and opinion and viewpoints into a bipartisan politic. And what that does is that means that there are people who are in and who are out. And we've had to embrace things that we both love and hate if we ascribe to any one of those bipartisan objectives. And so we've had to in some ways, in our own humanity, violate pieces of ourselves to say, well, I align this part one way, but even though I categorically reject their views on this another way. And then regardless of whatever spectrum you're on inside of that political continuum, and it's hard because at that point, if we say in a lot of other spaces that there's space for nuance and there's space for gray, then why here do we land in those spaces?(01:03:16):And so that would be the first that it is an either or, and we seem to be comfortable, most comfortable that way. And then to demonize and villainize somebody who's in the either or space, instead of allowing for the gray, you're either all for me or all against me, and you can't live somewhere in the middle. The second thing that would be shocking and disappointing for me is the way that we've been able to start arranging the things that we can tolerate. And so I can say, well, I love this candidate because I love these three things and I agree with them and I hate these four things, but they're not that bad. And you love this candidate, you love the other candidate for these three things, but you hate them for those four things. And the fact that you don't hate 'em enough over those four things means that you're a terrible person.(01:04:02):And I find that just so interesting and so sad that we've been able to say, well, the four things I can stomach that I don't like are somehow more or less worse than the four things you feel like you could tolerate or not tolerate. And so my list of sins or offenses that are easily navigable, somehow I get to become the moral compass over what should be enough or not enough to disqualify somebody for public service. I think at the end of the day, what makes us hard is that we see people in the middle as somehow exhibiting some sort of cowardice. And I think we're pushing people to violate their own humanity and say, as my experience changes and as the neighborhood changes and the people around me change, and my own philosophy changes that I can't stand in a faithful middle and say, well, I agree with some of this, but I don't agree with some of that.(01:04:54):And we've called those people cowards instead of principled moderates, and we've shamed them into saying, well, you have to choose something. And I think that is so unkind. And I think really at the end of the day, we are asking people to violate their own humanity and their own understanding of who they are and their own sense of who they are as a person by saying that they have to agree one way if they want to be a human or be a woman or be a person of color or be a person of faith. And I think it's both sides. I think every side is complicit. At the end of the day, what is really hard is that I think most people want to vote for the person that is going to lead well, and they want that person to be a good person. They want them to be an upright person.(01:05:37):They want them to be an authentic person, the same person behind closed doors as they are in the public face. And I would say, I don't think that's most people who choose politicking as a vocation, I believe that so much of their job is diplomacy and having to be a lot of faces in a lot of places. And so asking for that kind of authenticity and consistency in a social media world is almost asking the impossible. I don't think it totally is impossible, but I think it's exceptionally hard. Many of the things that we want to ascribe to one individual and how they uphold or represent their own party are carefully crafted narratives by a team of people who are professional politicians and marketers, and to ask them to give you an authentic person, their job is to not give you an authentic person. Their job is to give you an avatar that you feel you can most connect with so you can make the decision they want you to make.(01:06:33):And that is really for me, the reality of what we're up against right now is that we want to say we're voting for ideologies, and in reality we're voting for a carefully crafted narrative that is crafted by people who want you to believe a particular way. And I know that feels kind of negative, and that makes me so sad to even voice that out loud and to vocalize that out loud. But I would say that I hope in some way that we experience real freedom and real understanding of what it means to be a global citizen and to be a citizen of this country, is that we understand that. And the complexity of who I am as a person and how I interact with other people and how they understand their own complexity and their own humanity means that I can believe a lot of things that belong in a lot of different camps.(01:07:19):And that's okay. That's what honestly, being intrinsically American means, but also just to understand our own humanity in the global context is there are things that I will feel one way about and they squarely belong in one camp, but there are other things I believe that belong in another camp. And both of those things can be true for me without somebody demanding that I carry some sort of alliance or allegiance to one person. I think that's so gross and so foul at the end of the day. I think what makes America so interesting and so fascinating, but I also think so beautiful and so compelling and so desiring for people who are coming into our borders, is that there is this understanding that I can stand squarely as an individual person and be able to express myself as who I am as an individual and also belong to a collective that makes space for that.(01:08:14):And that is intrinsically what it means to be America. I'm free to be us, but I'm also free to be me. And so I think politics pushes us into a narrative that is against intrinsically who we say we are, and that really is the basis of freedom. And so that's what I would feel about that. Now, this is an added bonus, and I know you didn't ask for this, Danielle, but I'm going to give it to you anyways because I firmly believe this. I think it is more dehumanizing, and I think it is so incredibly sad that we don't allow for people to be principled moderates. That we are sanctifying the ability to castrate people's ability to be able to stand in the middle. And we vilify them as being weak or vilify them as being cowards because their understanding of what is actually evil is.(01:09:09):It's a broad spectrum. And to say that there is good everywhere, it is true to say there is evil everywhere is true. And how people interface with both of those things is true. And so I hate that we have become okay at using our theology and using our social media platforms and using our politicking as throwing stones for people who say, I want to hold a faithful middle. And that faithful middle means that I can believe a multitude of things and that I stand in the own gray and the nuance of who I am and how I understand my neighbors and what that looks like. And we know that some of those people are standing with compassion and with courage. And to call those people cowards, I think is the most ignorant, I'm trying to find the kindest way to say this, right? So I think it is just absolutely ignorant.(01:10:00):And then we've used quotes out of context and scriptures out of context to tell those people that somehow they're bad and evil people. And it's just not true that they're honestly sometimes the bridge builders and the unifier in places where they are trying to be peacemakers and they're trying to be people of peace. They're trying to be people of belonging and welcome. And so they're holding a faithful middle to say, my heart is going to take enough of a beating where people may misunderstand me, but I'm going to make it big enough and available enough where everybody can come sit under my tent. And I think that's brave work. I think that is courageous work, and I think that is humbling work that we could learn more from instead of castigating really more than anything else. So those are my 2 cents, honestly, more than anything else.(01:10:51):The last 2 cents I could probably give you that I think is so shameful is I am tired of any political party that tells me that they are doing more for working class Americans or doing more for poor people, and yet they're spending 2 billion to fly somebody around and send me junk mail to my home. I would much rather you stop buying ad space and then you actually go and serve the poor and somebody takes a picture of you doing that on accident. And I actually get to see that and go, oh my gosh, they're actually serving the poor. Do not tell me you're serving the poor or serving working class Americans and you haven't talked to one or seen one in a very long time. And my God, you have not lived in our shoes. You have not lived on our pay scales. You have not come in and volunteered regularly, and you only show up when there's a camera crew doing that.(01:11:34):That is so gross to me, and I hate that you send me mail about it and spend 2 billion fundraising for things like that. And yet that money could go to the poor and that money could go to programs. If there's one thing that makes me want to soapbox so bad, it is that more than anything else, I don't want to hear what your fundraising dollars have done to actually help your campaign. And that thing becomes a total waste when you lose. And that money doesn't go into the pockets of people. That money goes into the pockets of advertisers and radio stations and TV stations and social media influencers and all sorts of nonsense and actually doesn't go into the pockets and the hands of people who are feeding the poor that is garbage. So I feel very strongly about that, but I dunno if this is what you need, but that's how I make space. I make space for people who live at Principled Middle because I think blessed are the peacemakers and I want them to feel safe with me.Speaker 13 (01:12:26):Good morning. My name is Luis Cast. How do I see my own humanity in this political context? Well, it's simple as that. I'm a human being. I'm not a pawn or a little peace on a game. I'm a human being born and raised in Mexico, but I live here in the United States over half of my life now, and I'm a human being. And no matter what the promises they give me or what they're going to do in government, I'm still just a human being that wants the best for me and my family. And that's what they need to address the human being in us regarding not regarding color or race or where they come from. Treat us a as human beings. And the other question, how do I make space for folks who do not share my political view?(01:13:46):Well, again, it's just simple. I was taught that love whoever disagree with you or even your enemy. But to be honest, that's the hardest thing to do. People that don't agree with you or you don't agree with them, and sometimes they even hurt you. But I try to do my best, honestly, just to listen and sometimes put myself in their shoes because everybody has been brought up differently in families, cultures, regions of the country from the south, from New England, they call in the west in California. So we all have different views. So I just don't have an ear and sometimes an opinion, but mostly an ear so they can really listen to what they, I believe, where they come from, where they come from. So that is what I try to do. No, perfect, but that's what I try to do.Speaker 14 (01:14:59):Hi, my name is Claire. I am a white, cisgender, heterosexual woman. I live in Paulsboro, Washington. So the first question is how do I see my humanity in the context of this current political moment? And I'd start off by saying I come from a pretty privileged place, like my own personal humanity isn't very threatened just because I'm white, I'm straight, and yeah, my own family background. I have a lot of support and I'm not ever threatened with becoming homeless or something if I can't pay my bills. But still things are really scary for so many people right now. So I definitely feel that all the time. And I would say that it's just a really disheartening time. A lot of the, I mean, pretty much all politicians, I'd say are very untrustworthy at a local and national level. And I think we're all seeing that, especially in the context of what's happening in Gaza.(01:16:26):For the last over a year now, all these politicians that felt like they were progressive and would speak out when heinous things happened, most of them have gone silent or completely denied what's happening in Gaza, or just said really brief empty words, always proceeded by talking about Israeli hostages. So yeah, it's been terrifying because we realize the extent of politicians care for the general public and for the global wellbeing of humanity. And it only stretches so far because first and foremost, they're concerned about their own and standing in the political world because we've seen a lot of people lose their reelections for standing up for Palestinians.(01:17:38):And I think what's really disheartening is seeing it at a local level. In some ways, we expect national politicians to be pretty sleazy and skirt around really big, terrible, important issues. But seeing it at a local level has been really terrifying because I mean, they said it was then a couple decades ago, like 30, 40 years ago, there's more crises going on. And that really, for me, I've always thought, well, this is how it's always been. There's just the media reports on more stuff. We have social media, we can't hide a lot of things. So I don't know if that's true or not, but I mean, it probably is. We're in a time of climate crisis too, so it makes sense that things are just, they're not slowing down.(01:18:49):I don't know where I was going with that, but yeah, I guess I would just say humanity. It feels threatened on so many levels for my queer friends, for my friends of color, for any women or female identifying people just on so many levels, it just feels like our rights are being threatened and everything feels tenuous. If Trump wins, what the hell is going to happen to this country? And if Kamala wins, what the hell is going to change? I don't believe in politicians. They're not going to save us. That's how it feels. We have to save each other that are diehard Trumpers or something. I'd say all those people are my relatives that live in Wisconsin or a couple of coworkers, and we don't talk about politics, but on a deeper level, I try to remember that it's hard, right? Because hard, it's hard not to hate people for what they believe. I guess that's a horrible thing to say, isn't it? But I see the consequences of people who vote for Trump and put him in office the first time, their direct consequences because they voted for Trump and because of their beliefs and because of what they repost online. That just has bred so much hatred, and it's led to people being terrified for their lives and people losing their lives. There's so much propaganda being shoved down people's throats, the people that have Fox News plane 24 7.(01:21:06):I don't know the last time I watched Fox News, but I've overheard it. That stuff is crazy. They're being fed lie after lie after lie. So yeah, it's like people are also a product of their culture and it's hard to fight against your culture. So I try to give people some grace with that, but I also don't know how they can't see their own beliefs as harmful and full of hatred. I really don't understand. So yeah, it's hard. It's hard to remember people's humanity, but I have obviously my own blind spots and my own ways that I'm super ignorant and willfully ignorant in the things I look away from and the things like I'm resistant to learning because it's inconvenient or uncomfortable for me. So I try to hold that space for people too, because we're all learning. Yeah, it's a process of trying to remember people's humanity. And I think, yeah, but it just feels like when people support someone that spews so much hatred, it's really hard not to pin that blame on them as well, because they're also at fault for putting people like that in power. So I don't know. Yeah, it's a tough one.Speaker 15 (01:22:55):I feel like as somebody with various subordinated identities, whether that's being queer, being Latina, having a disability, being a woman, all of those things are increasingly politicized. And so for me, I find that political discourse specifically is often really dehumanizing and even performative on the other end of the spectrum. So our two major parties, Republican and Democrat with Republican, it's we well known that those political parties as they exist currently are working to strip away rights from people in all of those identity and affinity groups. While the Democrats, which I won't even say left, because current Democrats are right of center, when you look at a global pe

What’s Trending: Seattle is in the process of implementing security cameras in multiple high-crime areas. The Kitsap County Sheriff’s Office is helping a Poulsbo woman address her raccoon problem. Federal Way animal control is attempting to rescue more than 100 cats abandoned in a ‘biohazardous apartment.” // LongForm: GUEST: Music legend Pat Boone explains why he wrote a new song to call attention to division in this country. // The Quick Hit: Washington is joining many other states in a lawsuit against TikTok for being too addictive and harming the mental health of children.

Here is an update on the woman from Poulsbo who was overrun by 100 raccoons in her yard after feeding them for decades!

Today: It's Sarah's birthday! Finding out where to get the free stuff, what to do and fun facts, Poulsbo is known for more than the racoon woman, and have an excellent day friends - we love ya!

What’s Trending: Tim Walz was in town today for a fundraiser which likely made your morning commute a nightmare. A Gig Harbor teacher quit her job at the Peninsula School District after it was revealed she participates in drag shows. New York City is putting rats on birth control in hopes to curb infestation. // Kamala Harris is trying to politicize the response to Hurricane Helene. Harris did a sit-down interview with 60 Minutes and it didn’t go well. // A Poulsbo woman’s home was overrun by raccoons after feeding them for 35 years. There is a virus going around on Lopez and Orcas Islands that is affecting rabbits.

5pm: After decades of feeding them, a Poulsbo woman is forced to evacuate due to an invasion of wild racoons // Virginia school district asks for $2 million to install “vape detectors” in schools // Seattle seeks to revoke release for 'Belltown Hellcat' as violations mount // Colorado man accidentally removes his ankle monitor in the most brutal way imaginable // Tinfoil hat Tuesday - Can the Government control the weather? // Operation Popeye - America's Secret Weather Warfare Project // Letters

Terry and Jeetz talk about the 3 weirdest stories of the day! It's called the 533! Today includes: Quantas apologizes after explicit movie airs on all screens, Woman eats nothing but sardines loses 35lbs this is not a diet, Poulsbo woman's home overrun by 100 raccoons!

Farmer-florist Stacy Marshall recently opened her beautiful flower farm in historic Poulsbo, Washington, to host British sustainable design educator Rachel Wardley of Tallulah Rose Flower School. I spent a morning visiting with these two floral friends to learn about their recent collaboration to elevate local flowers, seasonal flowers, and sustainable practices. Stacy Marshall says she […] The post Episode 676: Petal & Pitchfork's Stacy Marshall hosts sustainable design workshop with Rachel Wardley of UK's Tallulah Rose Flower School appeared first on Slow Flowers Podcast with Debra Prinzing.

What’s Trending: An HOA in Federal Way deploys AI license plate reading cameras to deter criminals. Former SPD officer Dan Auderer has filed a $20 million lawsuit against the city for unfair termination. ‘Squad’ Democrats are rallying behind Cori Bush as she pushes for re-election while having lowest polling numbers to date. // Big Local: The CARES program in Poulsbo is trying to help reduce the burden on Washington emergency departments. In Buckley, a cockfighting ring was broken up. “Caring hearts 4 paws” saved 11 puppies in Olympia’s Capitol Forest. Once the puppies health has improved they will be put up for adoption. Tacoma is updating their parking laws and payment systems. // A Gig Harbor resident used a motion activated sprinkler system to ambush her neighbor who had been letting their dog go to the bathroom in her yard.

What’s Trending: Lynnwood is hosting a taxpayer-funded LGBTQ Pride catwalk for young children. A federal appeals court has ruled that a defendant who did not have a lawyer must be released from jail. Guest: Leslie Lewallen (former prosecutor, WA-03 congressional candidate) warns of the consequences to the sham Trump trial.  // Big Local: Police are searching for a suspect that vandalized pride banners in Poulsbo. King County has approved a pride proclamation without any Republican support. Marysville is slated for school closures. // Seinfeld’s Michael Richards went on The View to discuss his famous N-Word meltdown 18 years ago.  

Dr. Allison Feldt is a physical therapist, the founder of Body Motion Physical Therapy, and author of 2 important books - "Restore Your Body After Kids," and "Pregnancy Era," both focused on overall health, which often begins with a strong, healthy core, a valuable body element a simple exercise to get started with today. Dr. Feldt is passionate about women's long term good health, and with her team of physical therapists in Edmonds and Poulsbo, brings this focus to all women who want to take charge of their health and age well. www.bodymotionpt.com   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Dr. Allison Feldt is a physical therapist, the founder of Body Motion Physical Therapy, and author of 2 important books - "Restore Your Body After Kids," and "Pregnancy Era," both focused on overall health, which often begins with a strong, healthy core, a valuable body element a simple exercise to get started with today. Dr. Feldt is passionate about women's long term good health, and with her team of physical therapists in Edmonds and Poulsbo, brings this focus to all women who want to take charge of their health and age well.  www.bodymotionpt.com  

received a full ride scholarship to the University to Montana Western where she helped coach their equestrian team to 2 regional championships and was the high point rider three years in a row earning her trips to IHSA nationals her sophomore-senior years. After graduating college in 2012, Amanda moved back to Poulsbo to start her career as head trainer of Sandamar Farm which became Evolution Equestrian. Since then she has brought horses and riders through the 1.20 level and competed through the 1.30s and regional Grand Prix on her horse Spring Fling.

LISTEN: We're joined by Jennifer Moretty with Keller Williams Greater 360 in Poulsbo, Washington. She shares her journey from being a military spouse to becoming a successful real estate agent. She emphasizes the importance of building relationships and providing value to her clients, particularly those in the military community. Jennifer's expertise in military moves and understanding of the unique challenges faced by military clients sets her apart in the industry. She also discusses the success of her client events, such as Thanksgiving Pie Giveways and hosting Christmas pictures with Santa.

The Boat Geeks #10 - Nico Jensen and Aaron Wenholz (Longship Marine)Recorded 3.7.24Nico and Aaron are one of the busiest couples you will ever meet. In addition to running Longship Marine - one of the last remaining Marine Supply/Consignment stores in Washington - they also restore old wooden boats and are remodeling the original Sons of Norway Hall in downtown Poulsbo.Recorded aboard their floating studio in Port Townsend, WA, in the heart of the Pacific Northwest, your hosts Darren and Daeron take a deep dive into the world of boating.This episode: Nico and Aaron discuss their passion for old wooden boats, and what motivates them to restore so many over the years. At one time they were bringing back to life four large wooden boats - all while operating one of the most popular marine supply stores in Puget Sound. Longship Marine sells new, used, and consignment boat parts and supplies, with some boaters making a pilgrimage to the store from other states! The liveaboards are also in the midst of construction, turning the old 1818 Grieg Hall into an events center and marine classroom.Brought to you by the Boater's Guide, a free mobile app for PNW boaters. Available on iOS and Android devices, The Boater's Guide is information and adventure right at your fingertips, right when you need it. Download for free in the App Store or Google Play: https://www.pnwboatersguide.com/boaters-guideLongship Marine: https://www.longshipmarine.com/Longship Marine on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/longshipstoreLongship Marine on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/longshipmarine/Look for new episodes of The Boat Geeks on the 1st and 15th every month. Be sure to like and subscribe, and tell your boating friends! For more information on The Boat Geeks, visit https://www.theboatgeeks.com/

The school superintendent in Poulsbo who got busted stealing campaign signs during the big school bond elections!

No, it wasn't the Houston Astros this time...it was a school superintendent in Poulsbo who didn't like the voting signs opposing her view!

The school superintendent in Poulsbo who got busted stealing voting signs opposed to her stance on the school bond election!

For our 100th episode we invited PNW gardening legend Cisco Morris into our Poulsbo studio for a jovial conversation about gardening. He gave us tips on how to prepare for spring and suggested hacks all gardeners should implement. This renowned horticultural hoot has energy and enthusiasm for all things plants that are infectious. He teaches us how to bring the joy of gardening into everyone's life. Ooh la la indeed!

Today: Greg insists that he names something but is it really from Poulsbo, fastest cup of coffee and what is the deal with Stanley, hippo candle and yogurt detox, and have a wonderful day friends!

Hello & welcome to Chit & Chat; encouraging one another podcast. In this episode we have line up for a very fun interview with an Australian duo called, "The Long & Short of It." The Long and Short Of It are David Baird and Patsy Toop OAM, who first met in 2007 and already have an impressive resume to boot that includes six album releases, two EPs, and have earnt themselves a slew of awards including a Tamworth Songwriters Award (2011), a Tasmanian Independent Country Music Award for Most Popular Duo (2016), three-time winner of an Indie Country Music Australia (ICMA) Award for Most Popular Independent Country Duo (2017, 2019 & 2021), a Southern Star Awards Award for Best Duo or Band (2016) and a two-time winner of a Gold Media Medallion Award for Best Duo Nationally (2015 & 2018) – to name a few.The pair's sumptuous harmonies have been described as "honey-coated chocolate".  David and Patsy continue to uphold their commitment to penning songs that are relatable, inspirational and are storytelling.  Since their first release in 2009, the pair have continued to grow musically with every release. I am sharing their songs "How Big is It." Other songs we are lined up are: Stuart Bedford; They Can't Put Me Back Together, you can find him on Facebook. Austin Hopkins: Letting Go, you can check out his website at https://www.austinhopkinsmusic.com Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. If you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Love some donuts? Them check out Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Looking for some very delicious Mexican Food? Well, you have to check out: Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 If you are looking to upgrade you menus, or websites for you business, then contact my friend Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com, He helps create menus & helps design websites for restaurants. These are also some great places to grab some delicious food: 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501- i love their Fish & Chips!!! Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242- over 30 shakes available and great tasting burgers too.. Double D's BBQ & Smokery- great tasting BBQ and amazing desserts.. Also if you are looking to improve your business with some amazing tumblers, t-shirts, signs, stickers, coffee cups & much much more then you have to check out the Dandelion Sticker Company, Amanda can bring you vision to a reality. You can email her @dandelionstickerco@gmail.com or check out her Facebook page and you can see what she has done as well @ https://www.etsy.com/shop/DandelionStickerCo She has created some awesome stickers for this podcast & i ordered a tumbler, i gave her an idea and poof she created it. It's awesome.. When you head over to my website at WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM, I have links to each one of these business. You have the ability to click on each on and get more info about each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, We are also being playing on HGB Canada Radio as well. When you head over to the Total Mixx Radio website, check out the schedule and you will be able to see the time slot for the podcast which airs every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres and a bunch of independent artists from all over the world. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for your continued support and encouragement to this podcast and until next time. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Hi and Welcome to a very Special Episode as I am featuring 14 songs, which I could have done more but I will be doing this again later in the year. The music I have lined up for you is played in this order and their website and where you can follow them:   Jessica Lynne Witty- Like Whiskey, her website is www.Jessicanlynnewitty.com   Rocky Michaels- Be The Change, Rocky's website is www.Rockymichaelsmusic.com   Robbie Harte- Reason To Rise, Robbie website is www.Robbieharte.com   Hunter Lott- Drag You Down, His website is www.Hunterlottmusic.com   Sydney Irving- Find Me, Sydney website is www.Sydneyirvingmusic.com   Gino Jourbert- Hamster Wheel, I found Gino on Spotify and on Youtube Laurie Lace, Band Thing, check out her website @ www.laurielacemusic.com Benjiphonik, I Got Hold, his website is www.benjiphonik.com Demi Michelle Schwartz, I Hope You Know Your Lucky, www.demischwartz.com Andrew Dean, God Bless América, www.andrewdean.us Jennifer Alvarado, Filthy Water, www.jenniferalvarado.com Shawn Adam Williams, Big Bruno, you can find his stuff on Youtube and he on on Facebook Lisa Marie Nicole- With God It's Possible, www.lisamarienicole.com Clare Cunningham, Clovers, her website is www.clarecunninghammusic.com  Thank you to this artists for allowing me to share their music. Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. If you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Love some donuts? Them check out Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Looking for some very delicious authentic Mexican Food? Well, you have to check out: Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 If you are looking to upgrade you menus, or websites for you business, then contact my friend Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com, He helps create menus and helps design websites for restaurants. These are also some great places to grab some delicious food: 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501- i love their Fish & Chips!!! Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242- over 30 shakes available and great tasting burgers too.. Double D's BBQ & Smokery- great tasting BBQ and amazing desserts.. Also if you are looking to improve your business with some amazing tumblers, t-shirts, signs, stickers, coffee cups and much much more then you have to check out the Dandelion Sticker Company, Amanda can bring you vision to a reality. You can email her @dandelionstickerco@gmail.com or check out her Facebook page and you can see what she has done as well @ https://www.etsy.com/shop/DandelionStickerCo She has created some awesome stickers for this podcast and i ordered a tumbler, i gave her an idea and poof she created it. It is awesome.. When you head over to my website at WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM, I have links to each one of these business. You have the ability to click on each on and get more info about each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, We are also being playing on HGB Canada Radio as well. When you head over to the Total Mixx Radio website, check out the schedule and you will be able to see the time slot for the podcast which airs every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres and a bunch of independent artists from all over the world. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for your continued support and encouragement to this podcast and until next time. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

I am so excited to have on Francesca Tarantino she a singer, musician, and actress.  She was born in Pennsylvania & moved to Florida just before her 8th birthday. She has always loved to sing, often belting out classic rock tunes while running around the house or riding in the car.  She got her first taste for performing on stage in second grade, when she closed out her school's talent show with “I Wanna Rock and Roll All Nite” by KISS.  A bit later she moved to Florida & started in a new school that gave her the opportunity to learn about acting, singing, & theatre.  Though a little nervous, with the guidance of her voice teacher, Francesca decided to audition for the lower school's production of Beauty and the Beast and was cast as a “silly girl' and Belle understudy. She continued with musical productions but music called her. Francesca was introduced to the guitar by her father when she was still a toddler.  Her fascination grew and soon she'd have an acoustic and then an electric all her own!  Currently she's learning how to play lead & is practicing some epic riffs.  She's even teaching her dad a few! Francesca has played some local gigs in and around Orlando and has participated in several open mics. & has sung the National Anthem at several sporting events for her school. She covers a wide range of artists such as: The Beatles, Stevie Nicks, KISS, and much more! She is currently writing her own material with DME Orlando. Francesca is eager and hardworking. She has big dreams and is grateful for any opportunity that comes her way. I am also doing a podcast Spotlight as I head back to Episode #31, I am replaying a few min, with comedian Ken Davis as he was inspired by a teacher at a very young age that pushed into a very lengthy career. The music i am sharing today and their websites are by: Francesca T- Tragedy; her website is Francescamusic.com & Spotify   Steve Aliment & Annie O'Neill; Moving Down the Line  You can find Steve on Spotify,   Sundae & Mr. Goessl: Last Night was the Last Time Their website is Sundaeandmrgoessl.com   The Long & Short of It: They are an Australian band, have them schedule for an interview soon and I am playing their song: Just One Moon Their website it thelongandshortofit.com.au   Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. IF you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com, He helps create menus and helps design websites for restaurants. 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 When you head over to my website at WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM, I have links to each one of these business. You have the ability to click on each on and get more info about each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, We are also being playing on HGB Canada Radio as well. When you head over to the Total Mixx Radio website, check out the schedule and you will be able to see the time slot for the podcast which airs every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres and a bunch of independent artists from all over the world. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for your continued support and encouragement to this podcast and until next time. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Fantastic Flying Foelschs was formed in 2018 by Aaron and Haley Foelsch. It started out as a musical experiment to identify the right sound and instruments, in 2019 their Doom sound was developed. Aaron plays the guitar and bass, Haley is on drums, and both sing. FFF has recorded 6 metal albums and continues to write and record. FFF has done several live stream shows during the pandemic, participated live at Porchfest, the Charleston, The Crypt,  Erebus, as well as several others places in Washington & Oregon.  FFF went on tour from late August 2023  to early September 2023 for the release of their album Histories and participated in 7 additional shows. In November 2023, FFF played at Johnny B's in Medford and Le Voyeur in Dec 2023.FFF has also done two music interviews as well that can be found online. FFF will continue to perform live and write and record. I am playing one of their songs called, "Exit." Also featuring in this episodes I have some additional music by: The Chris Jones Band; we are cranking their song called "Always." Also check out there website @ www.chrisjonesband.com I have a great song by my good friend Benjiphonik and I am sure most of you all out there can relate to this hip- hopping and popping tune. It's called "I Got Old." You also can check out his website @ www.benjiphonik.com I also have a great tune my Lucky Mays, who has an incredible story, I am working on getting him on the show but I playing his song; "Carolina." And I really his music. His website is you can find him on Lucky Mays Music on Instagram. Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. IF you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Great customer service and awesome tasting foods and incredible service they provide. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com, He helps create menus and helps design websites for restaurants. 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 When you head over to my website at WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM, I have links to each one of these business. You have the ability to click on each on and get more info about each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, We are also being playing on HGB Canada Radio as well. When you head over to the Total Mixx Radio website, check out the schedule and you will be able tim see the time slot for the podcast which airs every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres and a bunch of independent artists from all over the world. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for your continued support and encouragement to this podcast and until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

As a decorated former US Army Black Hawk Helicopter pilot  and one of the first approximately 100 females to become a Black Hawk Pilot , she flew command and control, air assault, rappelling, top-secret intelligence missions, and also transported high level government VIPs including the Secretary of Defense. These stories keep attendees on the edges of their seats, and the stories are turned into relatable lessons that any audience can put into immediate action. She has received many awards in the Army, and supported United Nations peacekeeping operations in Kosovo, receiving the Meritorious Service Medal for her excellence in service. In 2011, Elizabeth was awarded the US Congressional Veteran Commendation. She is such an inspiration to so many out there, especially of all the physical and mental challenges and she reminds people all the time this statement "your future is your responsibility" and it's so so true!! I hope you enjoy this episode because I sure did. Also check out WWW.SOARYOURLIFE.COM, for a free motivational class, once you sign in, you will get a notification. Double check you "junk" mail, once you confirm it you will be get some personal lessons from Elizabeth in Mastering your Motivation. Our music today is by some incredible musicians:   Jennifer Mlott- Will You Christmas with Me; for more about Jennifer check out her website, @ www.Jennifermllott.com   Also I have a song called “Voices” by Ewelina. She is a singer from Poland and I will have her on in January, also please check out her music at www.EWELINA.COM  We have the Meghanne Storey Project- I am sharing her song; “Thoughts.” Check out her website at TMSPMUSIC.COM   Also we have JOEL GIBSON JR. sharing his music call "Home", check out his website at JOELGIBSONJRMUSIC.COM Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. I you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Great customer service and awesome tasting foods and incredible service they provide. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com, He helps create menus and helps design websites for restaurants. 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day   --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Katrina, says she started singing around age 5, when she received the gift of a Fisher Price karaoke machine. She grew up watching country music awards shows with her mother. She also was encouraged by her grandparents, both of whom have musical talent. Her first public appearance was at an open mic event when she was 14. “It was in the old Brownsville elementary school that's now a community center,” she says. “People were singing gospel and old-time country music.” “My grandpa (Bill Whetsel of Mt. Pleasant) organized the Mount Tabor Homecoming,” she says. The event is a fundraiser for Mount Tabor Cemetery in Springfield Township, Fayette County. “He said, ‘You want a shot at singing, I'll give you a shot.'” Years later came gigs at other area fundraisers, outdoor concerts and clubs. She's also headlined the annual Kecksburg UFO Festival. From starting with a guitar and karaoke tracks, she's gone on to assemble a five-piece band, playing both original songs and covers. Whetsel's short-term career goal is to open for bigger-name country acts. In the long term, she wants to get signed to a record label and entertain military troops on a USO tour, in honor of family members who have served. Whetsel names Reba McEntire as her favorite country performer, "Definitely Reba is my number one. She's my mom's favorite and mine as well,” she says. “In my opinion, she's the queen of country music, because she changes with the times while still staying true to her country roots.” She has been nominated for and won a number of awards, I don't believe there is a limit on what she can accomplish in the music industry. She was a awesome guest and I hope we can stay in touch and continue to share her music. Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. If you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Great customer service and awesome tasting foods and incredible service they provide. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

  Caruso is an 8 time award-winning songwriter and Contemporary Christian artist. Since 2019 and notably, He is the leader, writer, and front man of the US  Alt/Rock Band 308 Ghost Train who have amassed over 50 million streams. Caruso has been nominated for 49 awards winning 8. He is currently signed to Grace Records Nashville and managed by Jimmy Adams and JA Promotions. He (Caruso) will be releasing his first Contemporary Christian project on Grace Records Nashville "Musical Wind Walker" this year with the first single "My Walk and the Wind" to drop worldwide on July 28, 2023 and will be distributed by Warner Music Group.  He has been featured in over 100 magazines, podcasts, and radio shows.  Today I am sharing a few of his songs, "My Walk and the Wind," "The Man Who Laughs," and "Give me Jesus." Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. I you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Great customer service and awesome tasting foods and incredible service they provide. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Ladies and gentlemen, This episode is a tribute to a guy who has been in the music industry for nearly 40 years, and since the age of 9 he has has a love for music. He love playing, singing, teaching, sharing his words of wisdom and loves collaborating with artists from all over the world. This episode is all about my friend Raymond Hayden, Today I playing a bunch of his songs including: God's of War- in which he collaborated with Savannah Taylor, Bold- his wife, Jessica Lynne Witty joins in with him on amazing duet together, The Way- with his good friend, the Chris Jones Band, I am playing one of his solo pieces called, "Blazing Maple", Rain, with his group Accidental Grace, We Can Make It, Inspired by the struggle this pandemic has caused our industry, He wrote a song and put a call out on Facebook for my fellow PNW artists to collaborate on it. That call was answered quickly by 10 other artists and together we collaborated on what is now a beacon of hope…our anthem, “We Can Make it!” This song was written, collaborated on, mixed and mastered in five days. We dedicate this song to all of our fellow artists and industry peers who have been deeply affected by this pandemic. Collectively, our goal is to shed light on hope and remind our fellow human beings that we can make it through any obstacle…together. Our true power shines when we come together as a community selflessly to love one another. All I Want with David Von Eros Surrender with Jessica Lynne Witty Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. I you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Great customer service and awesome tasting foods and incredible service they provide. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. I have a website as well you can check out www.chitnchatpodcast.com It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Lisa is a Christian Contemporary recording artist/songwriter who has been writing since she was a child, but God took me in a different direction when he used me to write music that will touch the world and bring people to him. Her music has encouraged and inspired people of al ages especially those who may be suffering.  She hope the words the sings from the heart will help inspired others. She states that "I hope I did my job and people enjoy my music and are blessed by every word that God has inspired her to share with others." Stay tuned for her new album coming out in 2024, please check out her website @ www.lisamarienicole.com, for more info about her music and her podcast. Also thank you for Jennifer Mlott for allowing me to share her song "Outcast Dreamers." She was on the show a while ago. You can go back and listen to her episode which was #66. Please check out www.jennifermlott.com for more about her and her music. And thank you to Stuart Bedford for allowing to play his song, " The Will To Carry On." He was on episode #90, a great guy from Liverpool with a powerstory. You can find Stuart on Facebook. Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. I you are in the area here in Washington state, please check out these amazing businesses that are all locally owned and operated. Great customer service and awesome tasting foods and incredible service they provide. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

My guest is Kimberly Ward who is an established artist who grew up loving music. She is originally from a small county town in North Carolina, where she began taking piano lessons at an early age. She always enjoyed singing in choirs, during her junior high and high school days. She has taught piano lessons for 8 years and has taught from early beginners to advanced learners.  Since 2014 she has been writing music lyrics and has written over 20 songs, with 8 of them recorded in the studio. She now spends all of her time concentrating on songwriting, with plans of starting a band.  She writes multi-genre music, starting mostly as American music especially faith-based songs, that bring inspiration for healing for so many people. I am also sharing one of Kim's songs called "Letting Go," you can find her on facebook. Check her music out as well.   Not too often to you come across musicians that truly write from the heart but believe she does, and I am so excited to have the opportunity to have her on today and hear her story. The songs I will be sharing in this episode are from : Rocky Michaels-I am sharing his new song An Uncomfortable Truth, a very powerful song with some great lyrics. Also please check out his videos and others songs at his website www.rockymichaelsmusic.com Also I am featuring a song by a musician from my neck of the woods her in the PNW, Pacific Northwest. His song is called Beaches of St. John, you can also check out his website for his upcoming events, concerts and merchandise at www.Joelgibsonjrmusic.com And the last song you will hear is from the Michael Botte Band and there song is called New Rising Sun. You can check out their music at www.michaelbotteband.com, They are from Pennsylvania and I am working on getting them schedule for an upcoming interview. Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Derek inspires youth and adults across this nation to never give up and to not let the past limit their incredible future. He shares his motivational message of courage, hope and perseverance to help others find the strength to Never Give Up. When Derek speaks, it is from his passionate soul. He brings along his guitar to sing the journals of his life. He believes that music is one of the purest ways to touch and communicate with the hearts of the audience. His listeners will be ignited with passion and have the courage to take action and fight their fears. He will inspire and teach you to push yourself beyond your perceived limits. He believes it all comes down to a choice and taking responsibility for the direction of your life. He is proof that you don't have to let adversity hold you down in life; you have a fascinating and inspiring destiny awaiting you. Derek is also known as the internet Rapping Dad from his viral video hits. He has been a featured expert on CNN Headline News, The Ricki Lake Show and The Steve Harvey TV Show. As a speaker, author and singer/songwriter, Derek has spoken and performed his music from Australia to Canada including a President of the United States. His true-life trials and personal triumphs have inspired organizations with his message of hope and unwavering perseverance. His maxim is to make no excuses. He has turned his situation from a victim to a victor, equipping him with the wisdom and the will to never give up. Please check out his website IWILLNEVERGIVEUP.COM. Also we had music featured by Craig Hendricks & Elizabeth Mary, Craig share his song "Destination House.” I really like this song, just a chill song with some great lyrics, also I am working on getting Craig on an upcoming episode. So, stay tuned. And Elizabeth song was called "Breathe in Girl",  I truly believe her lyrics speak to people, when they are going through some difficult times, facing some adversity her songs help push those some of those challenging times. Thank you so much for all my sponsors who have been a part of this amazing podcasting journey. Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for joining, until next time... have a great day --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Hello everyone, welcome to Chit & Chat; Encouraging One Another Podcast, interviewing people from all over the world hearing their story and sharing encouragement and laughter all over the world. My guest today is Austin Hopkins is an independent singer-songwriter from the suburbs of Chicago. His distinctive voice gives him a unique mix between country twang and modern pop.  Austin bases his music on real life situations so the listener can really relate to the lyrics. ​ Austin has always loved music since he was a child, but didn't pick up a guitar until he was 23. A single dad at that time, trying to practice and raise his son, he found songwriting an outlet to everyday life and relationship stress. ​ In 2009, Austin entered a contest hosted by a local radio station.  To Austin's surprise, he was selected as one of the finalists. He performed his first original song “Beauty In The Breakdown”.  Though he didn't move on to the next round, he used that experience to fuel him, and continued to song write and play at local shows. ​ Austin's dream is to become a professional songwriter in Nashville. He hopes to achieve this goal by continuing to produce new music for all to hear.  I am sharing 2 of his songs today and please check out his website @ www.austinhopkinsmusic.com Also am I am featuring music by two of my good friends. Kirstie Kraus- Just One More, She's thirsty for love and magic, for joy and sunshine. She's thirsty for compassion and authenticity. And more than anything, she's thirsty for anything that sets her soul on fire. Kirstie Kraus carries her thirst in her songwriting, in her live shows, and in her everyday connection with other kindred spirits. Her writing infuses her own transparent journey with others' experiences to create sustainable lyrics and catchy melodies. The result is a perfect blend of country, funk, blues, and rock because with Kirstie, there are no boundaries. There's only the process of “letting go” and letting the song tell you what it wants to be.  Also featuring a very powerful song by Cory M. Coons, called Remember Me. For the past 30 years, Ottawa-based singer-songwriter Cory M Coons has been performing and recording his signature blend of rootsy rock. His brand of melodic, guitar-driven music and often introspective lyrics have brought favorable comparisons to icons like Bon Jovi, John Mellencamp, Tom Petty and others. Coons has amassed over 170K Spotify streams, and he has racked up both a Top 20 iTunes Canada single and a #2 international iTunes single. His website is WWW.CORYMCOONS.Com Thank you to my sponsors to this: Lone Star Donuts: 360-204-5021 in Silverdale, 360-443-2600 in Port Orchard, 360-626-1164 in Poulsbo, Washington Taquiza 360-698-4335 Taquiza Street 360-200-7315 Alex Pablo; aldentedigitals.com 19TH Hole Bar & Grill 360-813-3501 Chico Chicken & Pizza 360-550-4041 The Big Apple Diner 360-373-8242 I am so thankful each of them. Please check out WWW.CHITNCHATPODCAST.COM and you can check out each of these AMAZING businesses. And if you are local you could place you order for some very delicious food or connect with them to place an order of whatever you need. Eat Well, Eat Local. If you haven't subscribe or are following the podcast, please do so. You can find us on Spotify, I-Heart Radio, and many other podcasting platforms. You can also hear the podcast on www.totalmixxradio.org, Every Friday it's a great radio station that plays some amazing tunes and all kinds of genres. It's always fun, encouraging and uplifting.www.chitnchatpodcast.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Hello and welcome to BACK to Chit & Chat; encouraging one another podcast. I am so excited about this episode. I have the honor to speak with Michelle Rigby Assad. You might be asking who is Michelle Assad? Well... Her career began in Washington, D.C. working for an international relief and development agency in its government relations department. Michele joined the CIA in January 2002 and spent a decade serving as an undercover intelligence officer in the Directorate of Operations. Specializing in counterterrorism and counterintelligence, Michele spent the majority of her career in the Middle East. She worked in Iraq and other secret locations. Since leaving the agency, I have been on a mission to inspire others with the lessons I have learned from my unconventional career path. If I was able to rise in the midst of such challenging circumstances, so can you! Today, Michele is a keynote speaker, trainer, and international security consultant focused on the Middle East, North Africa, Europe and the United States. Her bestselling book Breaking Cover: My Secret Life in the CIA and What it Taught Me About What's Worth Fighting For, was published in February 2018 (Tyndale Momentum). You can find the book online. You can also check out her website at https://michelerigbyassad.com And I am so thankful for my amazing sponsors of this podcast. Thank you to these amazing locally owned businesses and I would highly recommend you checking them out. We have Lone Star Donuts, they have nearly 50 flavors of great tasting homemade donuts. Great Customer service and they are located in 3 locations. They are in Silverdale 360-204-5021, Port Orchard 360-443-2600 and Poulsbo 360-626-1164 Washington. They are all over social media. Please check them out today. Also Thank you Roberto & his great staff at Taquiza in the Kitsap Mall, they have some of the best Mexican food around, call and place your order today 360-698-4335, check their website out at TAQUIZATACOSHOP.COM, they also cater for parties as well. And did you know they also have a food truck? That's right. It's called, Taquiza Street. WWW.TAQUIZASTREET.COM check them out and place your order today, they have some really good breakfast burritos!! Call them and get your order in 360-914-9152 Also since we are discussing food try out Double D's BBQ and Smokery. I love BBQ and checking them out they have some very delicious tasting BBQ. They are a locally owned food truck and catering business by a military family, and they have some of the best BBQ around, great tasting RIBS that just fall off the bone. Check out their website at https://doubledsbbqandsmokeryllc.com/ to find out where they will be at or call them, their number is 360-960-9093. And Thank you to Alex Pablo, What Alex does is specialize in assisting small to medium-sized local family restaurant establishments in enhancing their brand identity and cultivating a strong business image, thereby attracting a greater customer base and boosting sales. We provide comprehensive support through the creation and maintenance of professional business websites, strategic menu design and printing services aimed at effectively showcasing their enticing offerings, and implementing efficient online ordering software to drive increased online sales. Our utmost objective is to empower these businesses to flourish and achieve sustained success in their respective markets. Check him out at https://aldentedigitals.com/ Please subscribe & follow this podcast, it is always about Encouraging others, hearing amazing stories from people from all over. As well as sharing about musicians & their songs with you. Thank you for joining & I hope you will continue to follow the podcast. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

Welcome everyone to Chit & Chat; encouraging one another podcast. I am so excited to have you back for another encouraging & entertaining episode. This podcast can now be heard on Total Mixx Radio, a radio station that is in all 50 states, 75 countries, playing genres of types of music as well as Independent Artists from all over the world. Check the out at WWW.TOTALMIXXRADIO.ORG Here we are with episode #102!! About 6 years ago, Joel Gibson JR. began singing with friends and family and with the support and encouragement of them and his wife Brittany, he is going balls to the wall. Joel is a local singer, songwriter from the PNW, (Pacific Northwest). I will be sharing several of his songs today & I will be catching up with Joel Gibson JR, it's been a hot minute. I am so excited to hear what he has been up and get a review on his 3000 mile road trip, where he did several concerts at. He also shares live 2 songs and one of those songs that will be on his next album. And it ROCKS!! The songs I am featuring today are: Hoodies and Romeo's, Roots, The Gift & Wishes. Each song has a very special meaning to him and some of the have a very special meaning especially being the up here in the PNW. Please check out his website at www.joelgibsonjrmusic.com, there you can see his schedule of his upcoming events, videos and more of his music and you can buy some merch from hats, hoodies, bottle openers, shot glasses and much much more. Who knows where you might see him on the road, such a great guy who ROCKS the house when he hits the stage. And I am so thankful for my amazing sponsors of this podcast. Thank you to these amazing locally owned businesses and I would highly recommend you checking them out. We have Lone Star Donuts, they have nearly 50 flavors of great tasting homemade donuts. Great Customer service and they are located in 3 locations. They are in Silverdale 360-204-5021, Port Orchard 360-443-2600 and Poulsbo 360-626-1164 Washington. They are all over social media. Please check them out today. Also Thank you Roberto & his great staff at Taquiza in the Kitsap Mall, they have some of the best Mexican food around, call and place your order today 360-698-4335, check their website out at TAQUIZATACOSHOP.COM, they also cater for parties as well. And did you know they also have a food truck? That's right. It's called, Taquiza Street. WWW.TAQUIZASTREET.COM check them out and place your order today, they have some really good breakfast burritos!! Call them and get your order in 360-914-9152 Also since we are discussing food try out Double D's BBQ and Smokery. I love BBQ and checking them out they have some very delicious tasting BBQ. They are a locally owned food truck and catering business by a military family, and they have some of the best BBQ around, great tasting RIBS that just fall off the bone. Check out their website at https://doubledsbbqandsmokeryllc.com/ to find out where they will be at or call them, their number is 360-960-9093. And Thank you to Alex Pablo, What Alex does is specialize in assisting small to medium-sized local family restaurant establishments in enhancing their brand identity and cultivating a strong business image, thereby attracting a greater customer base and boosting sales. We provide comprehensive support through the creation and maintenance of professional business websites, strategic menu design and printing services aimed at effectively showcasing their enticing offerings, and implementing efficient online ordering software to drive increased online sales. Our utmost objective is to empower these businesses to flourish and achieve sustained success in their respective markets. Check him out at https://aldentedigitals.com/ Please subscribe & follow this podcast, it is always about Encouraging others, hearing amazing stories from people from all over. As well as sharing about musicians & their songs with you. Thank you for joining & I hope you will continue to follow the podcast. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jody-shuffield/message

This week, I have Father John Strickland on the show. Fr. John serves as priest at St. Elizabeth Orthodox Church in Poulsbo, Washington. He is the author of "The Making of Holy Russia" and the four-part book series called "Paradise and Utopia: The Rise and Fall of What the West Once Was". We are discussing the broad themes of his book series as well as focusing on the fourth book, "The Age of Nihilism: Christendom from the Great War to the Culture Wars". Much like St. Seraphim Rose before him, Fr. John links many of the issues that the West has experienced and continues to experience to the Great Schism of 1054, or as he calls it, the Great Division. He takes us back to Christendom and up through the culture wars of modern-day America, as viewed through the Orthodox lens. This is a wonderful book series, and I think you'll enjoy this interview thoroughly. For more information on Fr. John, his books, his podcast, and his blog, go here:   Sponsor: The Podsworth App: Get 50% off your first order at when you use code BUCK50 at checkout! Visit my website:  Donate to the show here:  Audio Production by Podsworth Media: Leave us a review and rating on iTunes! Thanks!

 Link to Solutions article: HEREhttps://www.kitsapsun.com/story/opinion/columnists/2023/03/10/parent-group-offers-steps-toward-safety-inclusion-in-schools/69987422007/ Latino parent group presents steps toward safety, inclusion in schoolsDanielle S. CastillejoGuest columnOn February 7 community members gathered at a town hall meeting in Poulsbo to support the Latino Parent Group's request to the North Kitsap School District (NKSD) to investigate ongoing allegations of discrimination against students. At least 125 people attended, including Kitsap ERACE Coalition, the NAACP, Suquamish Tribal Elder Barbara Lawrence, Kitsap SURJ, local business owners, teachers, Poulsbo City Council, Kitsap Public Health, Kitsap Black Student Union, Kitsap Strong, Living Life Leadership, Poulsbo for All, Kitsap Mental Health Services representatives, Central Kitsap school administrators, Bainbridge Island school administrators, Bainbridge Island's mayor and Cultural Council, and many Latino families.We are grateful we are not alone. And we express our gratitude to the North Kitsap School District for processing some 85 emailed complaints and hiring an investigator to explore and resolve these concerns.In Kitsap County, we must urgently consider practical solutions for addressing racism in education, its effects on our youth's learning and mental health. Unaddressed racial trauma in our schools creates barriers to education, work, and mental and physical health. Our youth — all youth — are searching for ways to cope with the effects of racism, the pandemic and violence.Therefore, we must also urgently pursue healing. The North Kitsap Latino community offers the school district community-based practical solutions for forming partnerships with immigrants of other national origins, African Americans, Asian American/Pacific Islanders, and Indigenous students. Working together, we give all of our children a more inclusive society.In the words of Cesar Chavez: “We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.”The problems the Latino community face are deeply rooted in Kitsap County's historical racism, discrimination, and resulting harm to others who are perceived as “different.” Latino families share an important indigeneity connection with the Suquamish and Port Gamble S'Klallam Tribes, on whose ancestral lands we are guests. We are deeply grateful for these Tribes' work and advocacy to achieve justice and healing on behalf of, not only themselves, but also many other Kitsap County communities, including ours.As committed investors in our county economically and socially, we are also deeply committed stakeholders in the education of our children. Empowering our Latino community and other communities of Color, which bear the impact of racism and discrimination, builds bridges and creates movement toward truth, healing, and reconciliation.In a story published by the Kitsap Sun last November on this issue, NKSD stated, "Students and families should feel welcome and have a sense of belonging in our schools. When there are barriers to this, it is on us to have the courageous conversations to make meaningful changes."To advance these aspirational goals, we have asked the NK School District for two things: Equal access to education for English language learners and a culture of belonging that includes educating and providing learning on nondiscrimination.We have also provided specific practical solutions:1.  An equity concern form to be provided in both English and Spanish. It may be completed by students, staff, parents or community members to report district or school equity concerns, as well as give positive feedback to the district.2. Critical communication such as student updates, school announcements, emergency messages, and counseling services will be made available in the top three languages other than English. Additionally, qualified interpreters will be made available for parents to communicate with administrators and educators at all school events.3. English-language acquisition and student supports:- English language learners will receive language support regularly, for a minimum 4 days a week, at 20 minutes a day. These students will be placed in classrooms with teachers trained in evidence-based teaching strategies while supported by administrators in their classroom needs.- The district ensures all students have access to understanding their class content and materials, in classes, such as English, math, science, music, and all electives. - English language learning will include support for speaking, listening, reading and writing skills.4. Professional development will be provided for administrators, teachers, para-professionals and any staff working with children and youth, covering these specific topics: the impact of racial trauma, understanding student needs, how to support students, mental health resources, equality, and equity.5. Paid community liaisons to provide direct support to families through advocacy, creating safety and belonging, and addressing mental health needs. Each of the following will have a liaison: African American, Asian American Pacific Islander, Latino and Indigenous communities.6. The Latino community will collaborate with the district and other community liaisons to gather and elevate the voice of their community needs to explore partnership opportunities. Then, within this partnership, they will form 2-, 3- and 5-year plans to ensure students of color and their parents are supported in their educational needs.7. An education equity council will review the equity concern forms, discuss solutions to equity concerns, implement solutions, advise the school administration and school board, and develop pathways to understanding on behalf of students and the district. These practical solutions undergird our children's education. Along with creating a sense of belonging, the solutions build important frameworks for trust among the district, the Latino community and other communities of color. When the Kitsap County Health Department declared racism a public health crisis in 2021, the county recognized our situation. Loneliness and a lack of belonging are common threads for children of all national origins and races in this post pandemic world. Our urgent desire for unity, coupled with practical solutions, supports this community in a world that is increasingly fragmented. Kitsap County students are asking our generation to provide safety, learning opportunities, and model inclusion, not racism. Let us follow their lead and work together. Danielle S. Castillejo writes on behalf of the North Kitsap School District Latino Parent Group and Kitsap Advocating for Immigrant Rights and Equality.

I live in Poulsbo, Washington, USA. I began IF September 2017 after a phone call from a friend on vacation on the East Coast. She told me about a book by Gin Stephens her nephew had read and had lost 50 pounds. I got copy and could not put it down. I started losing weight right from the beginning. Over the next 4 years, I would get close to my first goal and then I would go up a few pounds. From July through September 2021, I had managed to gain back 13 pounds. I still clean fasted but I was overeating in my OMAD meals including lots of sweets. Finally, I decided I needed to make a change. First, I needed to admit I was a sugar addict. So, in September 2021 I eliminated processed sugar goodies. I also added two 42 hour fasts weekly to my already 20–23-hour OMADs. I gave myself a year to reach my goal by my 80th birthday in September 2022. I reached my goal and lost even more. So by my birthday I was already doing maintenance. I have maintained my weight loss over ten months, which in itself is a miracle. I am still doing 20–23-hour OMADs fasts with a 42 hour fast weekly if needed. I have lost a total of 65 lbs. over 5 years. The Fasting Highway news. For all information on my private one on one coaching go to www.thefastinghighway.com to book a private zoom call. All times you see available are in your local time zone worldwide. My book the fasting highway is available from your local amazon store. If you are in Australia or New Zealand, you can get it direct from me at the web site. Details and links to the fasting highway Facebook community can also be found at the web site. If you would like to be a guest on the podcast please submit a request on the web page. Enjoy the show. Graeme Currie Disclaimer all information shared on the podcast should not be taken as medical advice. Please consult your doctor before commencing any health plan. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/graeme-currie/message

This week's flower farmer chat is with Carolyn from Willow & Mabel Garden Co.  Caroyln has been flower farming for 9 years on her 5 acres in Poulsbo, Washington.  She offers so much great advice in this episode on all the things.  Follow her journey on social media @willowandmabelgardenco, and don't forget to check out her website for her beautiful dahlia tubers:  https://www.willowandmabelgardenco.com/